From actebs at actebs.com.au Mon Mar 1 01:55:50 2004 From: actebs at actebs.com.au (ACTEBS) Date: Mon, 1 Mar 2004 18:55:50 +1100 Subject: [AccessD] Meld 3 Text Files - Urgent Message-ID: <000001c3ff62$a01dc7d0$0b08a8c0@carltonone.local> Hi Guys, I have a small project that exports text files (3 of them) in a fixed width format. Now the company requires that these 3 files be melded into 1 text file only as apparently their import procedure knows when to import the one file into separate tables at their end. I have no problem creating the 3 separate text files, but how do you go about melding these 3 separate files into 1? Any ideas most welcome... Regards Vlad From gustav at cactus.dk Mon Mar 1 02:50:41 2004 From: gustav at cactus.dk (Gustav Brock) Date: Mon, 1 Mar 2004 09:50:41 +0100 Subject: [AccessD] Meld 3 Text Files - Urgent In-Reply-To: <000001c3ff62$a01dc7d0$0b08a8c0@carltonone.local> References: <000001c3ff62$a01dc7d0$0b08a8c0@carltonone.local> Message-ID: <883023787.20040301095041@cactus.dk> Hi Vlad The quick-n-dirty road is to use Shell and this DOS command: copy file1.txt+file2.txt+file3.txt file.txt If you prefer VBA code and the files are relatively small, you can just open them one by one, read the lines and append them to the new file one by one. As posted many times here, Seth has on his site the basic code for reading and writing text files. /gustav > I have a small project that exports text files (3 of them) in a fixed > width format. Now the company requires that these 3 files be melded into > 1 text file only as apparently their import procedure knows when to > import the one file into separate tables at their end. > I have no problem creating the 3 separate text files, but how do you go > about melding these 3 separate files into 1? > Any ideas most welcome... > Regards > Vlad From paul.hartland at fsmail.net Mon Mar 1 02:54:25 2004 From: paul.hartland at fsmail.net (paul.hartland at fsmail.net) Date: Mon, 1 Mar 2004 09:54:25 +0100 (CET) Subject: [AccessD] Meld 3 Text Files - Urgent Message-ID: <16160454.1078131265396.JavaMail.www@wwinf3002> Vlad, If you know the names and locations of the files you may be able to shell a copy command to add the three files together..... i.e. COPY C:\File1.txt + C:\File2.txt + C:\File3.txt C:\FinalFile.txt Or could you export the three files, then creat a union query to add the files/tables together, then export the union query ? Paul Message date : Mar 01 2004, 08:02 AM >From : "ACTEBS" To : "access group" Copy to : Subject : [AccessD] Meld 3 Text Files - Urgent Hi Guys, I have a small project that exports text files (3 of them) in a fixed width format. Now the company requires that these 3 files be melded into 1 text file only as apparently their import procedure knows when to import the one file into separate tables at their end. I have no problem creating the 3 separate text files, but how do you go about melding these 3 separate files into 1? Any ideas most welcome... Regards Vlad -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com Freeserve AnyTime - HALF PRICE for the first 3 months - Save ?7.50 a month www.freeserve.com/anytime From ayishakca at yahoo.ca Mon Mar 1 04:34:47 2004 From: ayishakca at yahoo.ca (Ayisha) Date: Mon, 1 Mar 2004 13:34:47 +0300 Subject: [AccessD] Cannot Enforce Referential Integrity References: <40424949.8030600@torchlake.com> Message-ID: <004201c3ff78$d55ff560$27d15dd4@ali> You can not enforce referential integrity if your tables containing records. Referential integrity will work only, if there is no records in any of the tables. VBALI ----- Original Message ----- From: "Tina Norris Fields" To: "Access Developers discussion and problem solving" Sent: Sunday, February 29, 2004 11:19 PM Subject: Re: [AccessD] Cannot Enforce Referential Integrity > Thanks John and Stuart. She indicated that the joined fields were PK in > parent table and FK in child table - but, I will double check. Thanks > for the thoughts. > Tina > > John W. Colby wrote: > > >Actually if the field in the parent is not designated the PK and / or no > >index on the child FK. > > > >John W. Colby > >www.ColbyConsulting.com > > > >-----Original Message----- > >From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > >[mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Stuart > >McLachlan > >Sent: Saturday, February 28, 2004 6:14 PM > >To: Access Developers discussion and problemsolving > >Subject: Re: [AccessD] Cannot Enforce Referential Integrity > > > > > >On 28 Feb 2004 at 15:28, Tina Norris Fields wrote: > > > > > > > >>A student of mine is trying to remodel a database for her employer. I > >>think the database was converted from A97 to AXP (A2K format). She was > >>reviewing the relationships and wanted to enforce referential integrity > >>on one or more relationships. She reports that the checkbox for > >>enforcing referential integrity was dimmed and unavailable. I don't > >>know much more about this particular database. Any ideas as to why the > >>enforce referential integrity choice would be made unavailable? > >>Thanks, > >>Tina > >> > >> > >> > >Usually this happens if there is no unique index on the joined fields > >in the parent table. > > > > > >-- > >Lexacorp Ltd > >http://www.lexacorp.com.pg > >Information Technology Consultancy, Software Development,System > >Support. > > > > > > > >-- > >_______________________________________________ > >AccessD mailing list > >AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > >http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > >Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > > > > > > > > > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From ayishakca at yahoo.ca Mon Mar 1 04:35:01 2004 From: ayishakca at yahoo.ca (Ayisha) Date: Mon, 1 Mar 2004 13:35:01 +0300 Subject: [AccessD] Cannot Enforce Referential Integrity References: <40424949.8030600@torchlake.com> Message-ID: <004701c3ff78$e0d94680$27d15dd4@ali> You can not enforce referential integrity if your tables containing records. Referential integrity will work only, if there is no records in any of the tables. Ayisha ----- Original Message ----- From: "Tina Norris Fields" To: "Access Developers discussion and problem solving" Sent: Sunday, February 29, 2004 11:19 PM Subject: Re: [AccessD] Cannot Enforce Referential Integrity > Thanks John and Stuart. She indicated that the joined fields were PK in > parent table and FK in child table - but, I will double check. Thanks > for the thoughts. > Tina > > John W. Colby wrote: > > >Actually if the field in the parent is not designated the PK and / or no > >index on the child FK. > > > >John W. Colby > >www.ColbyConsulting.com > > > >-----Original Message----- > >From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > >[mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Stuart > >McLachlan > >Sent: Saturday, February 28, 2004 6:14 PM > >To: Access Developers discussion and problemsolving > >Subject: Re: [AccessD] Cannot Enforce Referential Integrity > > > > > >On 28 Feb 2004 at 15:28, Tina Norris Fields wrote: > > > > > > > >>A student of mine is trying to remodel a database for her employer. I > >>think the database was converted from A97 to AXP (A2K format). She was > >>reviewing the relationships and wanted to enforce referential integrity > >>on one or more relationships. She reports that the checkbox for > >>enforcing referential integrity was dimmed and unavailable. I don't > >>know much more about this particular database. Any ideas as to why the > >>enforce referential integrity choice would be made unavailable? > >>Thanks, > >>Tina > >> > >> > >> > >Usually this happens if there is no unique index on the joined fields > >in the parent table. > > > > > >-- > >Lexacorp Ltd > >http://www.lexacorp.com.pg > >Information Technology Consultancy, Software Development,System > >Support. > > > > > > > >-- > >_______________________________________________ > >AccessD mailing list > >AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > >http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > >Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > > > > > > > > > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From ayishakca at yahoo.ca Mon Mar 1 04:35:23 2004 From: ayishakca at yahoo.ca (Ayisha) Date: Mon, 1 Mar 2004 13:35:23 +0300 Subject: [AccessD] Cannot Enforce Referential Integrity References: <40424949.8030600@torchlake.com> Message-ID: <005301c3ff79$44493540$27d15dd4@ali> You can not enforce referential integrity if your tables containing records. Referential integrity will work only, if there is no records in any of the tables. Ayisha ----- Original Message ----- From: "Tina Norris Fields" To: "Access Developers discussion and problem solving" Sent: Sunday, February 29, 2004 11:19 PM Subject: Re: [AccessD] Cannot Enforce Referential Integrity > Thanks John and Stuart. She indicated that the joined fields were PK in > parent table and FK in child table - but, I will double check. Thanks > for the thoughts. > Tina > > John W. Colby wrote: > > >Actually if the field in the parent is not designated the PK and / or no > >index on the child FK. > > > >John W. Colby > >www.ColbyConsulting.com > > > >-----Original Message----- > >From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > >[mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Stuart > >McLachlan > >Sent: Saturday, February 28, 2004 6:14 PM > >To: Access Developers discussion and problemsolving > >Subject: Re: [AccessD] Cannot Enforce Referential Integrity > > > > > >On 28 Feb 2004 at 15:28, Tina Norris Fields wrote: > > > > > > > >>A student of mine is trying to remodel a database for her employer. I > >>think the database was converted from A97 to AXP (A2K format). She was > >>reviewing the relationships and wanted to enforce referential integrity > >>on one or more relationships. She reports that the checkbox for > >>enforcing referential integrity was dimmed and unavailable. I don't > >>know much more about this particular database. Any ideas as to why the > >>enforce referential integrity choice would be made unavailable? > >>Thanks, > >>Tina > >> > >> > >> > >Usually this happens if there is no unique index on the joined fields > >in the parent table. > > > > > >-- > >Lexacorp Ltd > >http://www.lexacorp.com.pg > >Information Technology Consultancy, Software Development,System > >Support. > > > > > > > >-- > >_______________________________________________ > >AccessD mailing list > >AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > >http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > >Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > > > > > > > > > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From paul.hartland at fsmail.net Mon Mar 1 05:17:22 2004 From: paul.hartland at fsmail.net (paul.hartland at fsmail.net) Date: Mon, 1 Mar 2004 12:17:22 +0100 (CET) Subject: [AccessD] Help With Charts Urgent - x posted Message-ID: <315838.1078139842411.JavaMail.www@wwinf3002> To all, Here we go, always wondered when I would be asked to produce a chart in Excel. So I need all the help I can get here please. I have a file in Excel I have managed to select the columns that I want to use for the chart which are Job Number, Count Rate and Target and I have managed to produce a basic grid. But it?s not quite how I want it to appear, the chart is including the job number in the chart when I actually want the job number at the bottom of the chart (x axis). Can anyone tell me how to use the Job Number as the x axis. Thanks in advance for all your help. Paul Hartland Freeserve AnyTime - HALF PRICE for the first 3 months - Save ?7.50 a month www.freeserve.com/anytime From rsmethurst at UK.EY.COM Mon Mar 1 05:27:17 2004 From: rsmethurst at UK.EY.COM (rsmethurst at UK.EY.COM) Date: Mon, 1 Mar 2004 11:27:17 +0000 Subject: [AccessD] Help With Charts Urgent - x posted Message-ID: Paul, An easiy(ish) way to get it perfected in Excel (if you are not too familiar with the object model) is to run a macro whilst creating the chart object (using the wizard) and then follow the created code to see what you need to change. In terms of this problem... If you use the Chart wizard to create your chart in Excel, and then (in step 2 of 4) select the 'SERIES IN : (columns/row - depending)' radio button, and on the next tab of that same step in the wizard, remove the axis series...it will go someway to helping you with this problem. HTH, Cheers, Ryan paul.hartland at fsmail.net Sent by: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com 01/03/2004 11:17 Please respond to Access Developers discussion and problem solving To: accessd cc: Subject: [AccessD] Help With Charts Urgent - x posted To all, Here we go, always wondered when I would be asked to produce a chart in Excel. So I need all the help I can get here please. I have a file in Excel I have managed to select the columns that I want to use for the chart which are Job Number, Count Rate and Target and I have managed to produce a basic grid. But it's not quite how I want it to appear, the chart is including the job number in the chart when I actually want the job number at the bottom of the chart (x axis). Can anyone tell me how to use the Job Number as the x axis. Thanks in advance for all your help. Paul Hartland Freeserve AnyTime - HALF PRICE for the first 3 months - Save ?7.50 a month www.freeserve.com/anytime -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com This e-mail and any attachment are confidential and contain proprietary information, some or all of which may be legally privileged. It is intended solely for the use of the individual or entity to which it is addressed. If you are not the intended recipient, please notify the author immediately by telephone or by replying to this e-mail, and then delete all copies of the e-mail on your system. If you are not the intended recipient, you must not use, disclose, distribute, copy, print or rely on this e-mail. 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From Jdemarco at hudsonhealthplan.org Mon Mar 1 07:19:58 2004 From: Jdemarco at hudsonhealthplan.org (Jim DeMarco) Date: Mon, 1 Mar 2004 08:19:58 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] A2K MDE Runtime Reference problem - URGENT Message-ID: <22F1CCD5171D17419CB37FEEE09D5F9902E7FD1E@TTNEXCHSRV1.hshhp.com> We have an open source app that we've modified and are installing at various doctor's offices in the area. The application came with an installation routine that installs the A2K runtime and the app MDE. We use the install the app came with then overwrite the app MDE with our modified version. The application runs fine in-house after overwriting the MDE (Win2K) but on a contractor's machine (WinXP) and a client's machine (Win98) we're losing a library reference (Date displays and functions calling Date functions fail with #Name? error). Since it's an MDE we can't see or adjust the references (or can we?). Does anyone know how we can get the references straightened out? Are the client machines missing a DLL by chance?. I've been attempting to create our own install package using InstallShield but it's looking for an *.msi file for the Access Runtime. I'm not sure where to find that either. I'm also not really sure a fresh install package will fix the reference problem anyway. TIA, Jim DeMarco Director Product Development Hudson Health Plan From rl_stewart at highstream.net Mon Mar 1 07:36:04 2004 From: rl_stewart at highstream.net (Robert L. Stewart) Date: Mon, 01 Mar 2004 07:36:04 -0600 Subject: [AccessD] Re: Watching data In-Reply-To: <200402291616.i1TGGHM03065@databaseadvisors.com> Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20040301073412.02927108@pop3.highstream.net> John, One of the ways this is handled in a data warehouse is to just write a history record with all of the previous information. For your report, you could show the current data and the previous data. RObert At 10:16 AM 2/29/2004 -0600, you wrote: >From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com >[mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of John W. Colby >Sent: Saturday, February 28, 2004 4:04 AM >To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving >Subject: RE: [AccessD] Watching data > > >Well... the data isn't normalized to that extent, i.e. I don't have an >"Address table". A claimant has a single address, and that is embedded >directly in the Claimant table. Thus a timestamp would only tell me >that the claimant table had changed, not that the address portion of the >table had changed. Maybe she got married and changed her name? The >Date of Birth was corrected? The name was mis-spelled and the >mis-spelling was corrected? > >John W. Colby >www.ColbyConsulting.com > >-----Original Message----- >From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com >[mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Gustav Brock >Sent: Saturday, February 28, 2004 4:35 AM >To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving >Subject: Re: [AccessD] Watching data > > >Hi John > >Wouldn't it be much easier to add timestamps and track these? If the >timestamp of an address is newer than that recorded for the case, >"something else" has changed the address. > >/gustav > > > > I need a system for watching specific data fields in specific tables > > for changes. For example, if the Policy holder address changes, the > > claimant address changes, the Payment location (address) changes etc. > > > If ANY of these change then I need to gather the information and at > > the end of the >day > > email a report to the client (the insurance company) spelling out the > > changes, what object the fields belonged to (Claimant, Policy Holder >etc.). From jimdettman at earthlink.net Mon Mar 1 07:41:52 2004 From: jimdettman at earthlink.net (Jim Dettman) Date: Mon, 1 Mar 2004 08:41:52 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Watching data In-Reply-To: <404249E9.82F4661E@nanaimo.ark.com> Message-ID: Tony, << STable = Rst(Me(MyCtl).ControlSource).SourceTable SField = Rst(Me(MyCtl).ControlSource).SourceField >> Been a long time since I found something in Access that I didn't know existed! I was shocked to realize this has been in DAO since version 2.0! That really makes what John is trying to do super easy. Good job! Jim Dettman President, Online Computer Services of WNY, Inc. (315) 699-3443 jimdettman at earthlink.net -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Tony Septav Sent: Sunday, February 29, 2004 3:22 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Watching data Hey John Tried a quick test with a bound form to a query. Query contained 2 tables. My test field in the query had an alias eg. Tblname Account_Number, Qryname AcctNum For the sake of the test the text box on the form was named with an alias ActNo, control source from query Acctnum In Before Update Dim Db As Database, Rst As Recordset Dim Rst2 As Recordset Dim MyCtl As String Dim STable As String, SField As String Dim Ctl As Control Set Ctl = Me.ActiveControl MyCtl = Ctl.Name 'check to see if value has changed (variable HasChng assigned OnEnter) 'if changed Set Db = CurrentDb() Set Rst = Db.OpenRecordset(Me.RecordSource, dbOpenDynaset) STable = Rst(Me(MyCtl).ControlSource).SourceTable SField = Rst(Me(MyCtl).ControlSource).SourceField 'Assumes all tables have a Logger field ' Find the record and tag it Set Rst2 = Db.OpenRecordset("select Logger from " & STable & " where " & SField & " = " & HasChng & ";", dbOpenDynaset) Rst2.Edit Rst2!Logger = "Yes" Rst2.Update rst2.close set Rst2=nothing Rst.Close set Rst=nothing 'endif As I say this was a quick test but "Yes" did appear in the appropriate table and record. "John W. Colby" wrote: > >I just thought of another one; what if you assign the forms recordsource to > a recordset variable in code so you can do transactions? I've never looked > at runtime to see what that looks like to a form object. > > AFAIK this isn't possible in A2K. > > John W. Colby > www.ColbyConsulting.com > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Jim Dettman > Sent: Sunday, February 29, 2004 2:37 PM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: RE: [AccessD] Watching data > > John, > > < by > (I think) opening the query that the form is bound to, looking up the field > that the control is bound to, and looking at the properties of that field in > the query to discover what table / field the data comes from.>> > > Thought I had missed the boat on that one. > > < new val" how do we discover the Tablename / Fieldname portion?>> > > I used the brute force approach in the past; I coded the table and field > name that I wanted logged in the tag property for each control. > > Without doing that, you'd need to grab the form's recordsource and figure > out what it is. It could be a table name, query def, or SQL statement. The > first would be easy, as from that point you'd only need the controls record > source. The second you can figure out easy enough, but parsing it would be > a problem, especially if it in itself is based on sub queries. That applies > to querydef's as well. > > I'm not sure what Drew was thinking of, but I don't see any easy answers > there. > > I just thought of another one; what if you assign the forms recordsource > to a recordset variable in code so you can do transactions? I've never > looked at runtime to see what that looks like to a form object. > > Jim Dettman > President, > Online Computer Services of WNY, Inc. > (315) 699-3443 > jimdettman at earthlink.net > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of John W. Colby > Sent: Sunday, February 29, 2004 12:38 PM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: RE: [AccessD] Watching data > > >but I'm assuming what you mean by "drilling down" is looping through all > the controls > > I do control collection iteration collection all the time, starting with my > form class which has a control scanner (as I call it) which iterates the > controls collection loading classes for each control found. > > No, by "drilling down" I mean discovering what the SOURCE of the data is by > (I think) opening the query that the form is bound to, looking up the field > that the control is bound to, and looking at the properties of that field in > the query to discover what table / field the data comes from. > > When a form / field is bound to data, what the data is can be non-trivial to > discover. For example the form could be bound to a query. The developer > decides that rather than leaving the field names of that query alone, he is > going to rename CL_Addr1 to Address1 using field name aliases. Further the > query could be two or more tables linked together in the query (and still > editable) so that fields from the claimant and a specific claim are all > bound to controls on a form. Now when the data logger tries to log the > data, what table is the data coming from, the claimant or the claim? > Further is Address1 the actual field name in the table or is it an alias? > > Thus when it's time to log data and we want "table / field name / oldval / > new val" how do we discover the Tablename / Fieldname portion? > > John W. Colby > www.ColbyConsulting.com > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Jim Dettman > Sent: Sunday, February 29, 2004 11:15 AM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: RE: [AccessD] Watching data > > John, > > < believe > that Drew was the one that assured me that it is possible. I just have to > see if I can find the hints of how. It had to do with opening the query and > inspecting the properties of the fields.>> > > I missed earlier parts of this discussion, but I'm assuming what you mean > by "drilling down" is looping through all the controls, then yes it > certainly can be done. Any of the code floating out there to resize forms > contains the logic required. If you don't have access to something like > that, it's a pretty straight forward matter. > > Starting at the form level, you'd use the controls collection to iterate > through all the controls for an object. Just be aware that you'll need to > handle container controls (i.e. page frames and subforms), so it will be a > series of nested loops. You might want to try and make it a recursive > procedure. Performance wise, you also might want to restrict which controls > are looked at. For example, if you don't place controls in anything other > then the detail section of forms, then no need to check the header and > footer. > > Once you locate a control, you use the TypeOf function to figure out what > it is and if you need to deal with it. I would not bother checking the > .enabled or .locked properties, but simply check .oldvalue vs .value, as it > should be faster that way. > > This would all be done in the BeforeUpdate event after your sure your not > going to cancel for any reason. > > As far as the change log, I've always used the approach of one record per > field change: > > tblLogID - Autonumber -PK > LogDateTime - D/T > LogType - String - "A"dd, "D"elete, "U"pdate > TableName - String > RecordPK - String > FieldName - String > TypeOf - Numeric - Indicates where "NewValue" is stored > NewValue1 - String > NewValue2 - Integer > NewValue3 - Long > NewValue4 - Single > etc.... > > I don't bother to hold the .oldvalue because you'd be duplicating it in > the table. You can also see that I don't bother to try and convert the > .oldvalue into a common type (i.e. a string), but rather store the actual > value. If I had access to the raw binary data, then I'd do so, but without > that, this seemed to be the cleanest way. > > I've used two different types of logic in working with the log file: > > Roll forward - used to recreate a database at a specific point in time. > 1. Check point (backup) > 2. Apply log changes in a "roll forward" to a specific date and time. > > Auditing: > 1. Log file records are maintained as long as possible. > > I've primarily used this in HR type apps or others where it was required > to recreate the data at a specific point in time. I haven't had to use > logging/auditing in quite some time, but it was workable. I went with > strings for the table name and field names, but I suppose you could come up > with some type of internal tracking system to use a numeric ID of some type, > but that is probably overkill. The only gotcha there is if you rename a > table or field. Generally, that doesn't happen too often for me. > > HTH, > Jim Dettman > President, > Online Computer Services of WNY, Inc. > (315) 699-3443 > jimdettman at earthlink.net > > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From gustav at cactus.dk Mon Mar 1 07:51:42 2004 From: gustav at cactus.dk (Gustav Brock) Date: Mon, 1 Mar 2004 14:51:42 +0100 Subject: [AccessD] A2K MDE Runtime Reference problem - URGENT In-Reply-To: <22F1CCD5171D17419CB37FEEE09D5F9902E7FD1E@TTNEXCHSRV1.hshhp.com> References: <22F1CCD5171D17419CB37FEEE09D5F9902E7FD1E@TTNEXCHSRV1.hshhp.com> Message-ID: <2521084037.20040301145142@cactus.dk> Hi Jim One source for the error may be that the default name for the Windows directory is WinNT in WinNT/2000 but Windows in Win 9x and Win XP. But what were the references in the original MDE? Does that MDE run under WinXP? If so, can you modify your MDE to have references as those of the original MDE? Or you could create a c:\windows folder on your Win2000 machine, copy the libraries to this and adjust your references before creating the MDE. Or you could follow the advice of Charlotte, I believe, and move your libraries to the folder of your installed MDE; but that would require an adjustment of your install script and you wanted to avoid that, right? /gustav > We have an open source app that we've modified and are installing at various doctor's offices in the area. The application came with an installation routine that installs the A2K runtime and the > app MDE. We use the install the app came with then overwrite the app MDE with our modified version. The application runs fine in-house after overwriting the MDE (Win2K) but on a contractor's > machine (WinXP) and a client's machine (Win98) we're losing a library reference (Date displays and functions calling Date functions fail with #Name? error). Since it's an MDE we can't see or > adjust the references (or can we?). Does anyone know how we can get the references straightened out? Are the client machines missing a DLL by chance?. > I've been attempting to create our own install package using InstallShield but it's looking for an *.msi file for the Access Runtime. I'm not sure where to find that either. I'm also not really > sure a fresh install package will fix the reference problem anyway. > TIA, > Jim DeMarco > Director Product Development > Hudson Health Plan From gustav at cactus.dk Mon Mar 1 07:54:27 2004 From: gustav at cactus.dk (Gustav Brock) Date: Mon, 1 Mar 2004 14:54:27 +0100 Subject: [AccessD] Watching data In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <3421249985.20040301145427@cactus.dk> Hi Jim DAO rules! /gustav >> STable = Rst(Me(MyCtl).ControlSource).SourceTable >> SField = Rst(Me(MyCtl).ControlSource).SourceField > Been a long time since I found something in Access that I didn't know > existed! I was shocked to realize this has been in DAO since version 2.0! > That really makes what John is trying to do super easy. > Good job! > Jim Dettman From iggy at nanaimo.ark.com Mon Mar 1 08:01:18 2004 From: iggy at nanaimo.ark.com (Tony Septav) Date: Mon, 01 Mar 2004 06:01:18 -0800 Subject: [AccessD] Watching data References: Message-ID: <4043422D.A95A6734@nanaimo.ark.com> Hey John You will have to be careful if the developer uses field names like Account Number rather than Account_Number You will have to insert [] brackets around the sourcefield Set Rst2 = Db.OpenRecordset("select Logger from " & STable & " where [" & SField & "] = " & HasChng & ";", dbOpenDynaset) "John W. Colby" wrote: > Tony, > > The following is what I ended up with: > > ' > 'This function iterates the mfrm's control collection looking up the > control's table and field names > ' > 'Since I sometimes open the form unbound, I need to do all this in a > separate function after binding the form > 'to a table. > ' > Public Function CtlDataSrc() > On Error GoTo Err_CtlDataSrc > Dim rst As DAO.Recordset > Dim ctl As Control > Dim strSrcTbl As String > Dim strSrcFld As String > > 'Get a copy of the form's Recordset > Set rst = mfrm.RecordsetClone > 'Iterate the controls collection for the form > For Each ctl In mfrm.Controls > Debug.Print ctl.Name > 'attempt tp get the source table name for the field the control is > bound to. > err.Clear > On Error Resume Next > strSrcTbl = rst(ctl.ControlSource).SourceTable > If err = 0 Then 'If there is no error (the field is bound to a field > and the source table is found) > mobjChildren(ctl.Name).BoundTbl = strSrcTbl 'look up the class > in mobjChildren collection and pass the class the table name > End If > 'Do the same stuff for the source field name > strSrcFld = rst(ctl.ControlSource).SourceField > If err = 0 Then > mobjChildren(ctl.Name).BoundFld = strSrcFld > End If > Next ctl > > Exit_CtlDataSrc: > On Error Resume Next > If Not (rst Is Nothing) Then rst.Close: Set rst = Nothing > Exit Function > Err_CtlDataSrc: > MsgBox err.Description, , "Error in Function dclsFrm.CtlDataSrc" > Resume Exit_CtlDataSrc > Resume 0 '.FOR TROUBLESHOOTING > End Function > > This assumes a pair of private string variables in each data aware class: > > ' > 'Used for change logging > ' > Private mstrBoundTbl As String 'The Table that this control is > bound to > Private mstrBoundFld As String 'The field in the table that > this control is bound to > > and corresponding property get/let statements to access the variables: > > ' > 'Properties for the bound field / table (properties of the control class) > ' > Public Property Get BoundTbl() As String > BoundTbl = mstrBoundTbl > End Property > Public Property Let BoundTbl(strTblName As String) > mstrBoundTbl = strTblName > End Property > Public Property Get BoundFld() As String > BoundFld = mstrBoundFld > End Property > Public Property Let BoundFld(strFldName As String) > mstrBoundFld = strFldName > End Property > > So far it all appears to be working flawlessly. I added the variables and > properties to all of my control classes that are for bound controls and I'm > off and running. > > That takes care of each control knowing it's table / field. > > Next I have to do the code to tell each such control to store the old value > and return the various old / new values. I do think I'll write a > DataLogger class to handle the issue of storing sets of controls to log data > for as well as the logic of when to save the old values, when to return the > various pieces for logging, handling the log table etc. > > I think this is going to work nicely though. > > John W. Colby > www.ColbyConsulting.com > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Tony Septav > Sent: Sunday, February 29, 2004 3:22 PM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: Re: [AccessD] Watching data > > Hey John > > Tried a quick test with a bound form to a query. > Query contained 2 tables. My test field in the query had an alias > eg. Tblname Account_Number, Qryname AcctNum > For the sake of the test the text box on the form was named with an alias > ActNo, control source from query Acctnum > > In Before Update > > Dim Db As Database, Rst As Recordset > Dim Rst2 As Recordset > Dim MyCtl As String > Dim STable As String, SField As String > Dim Ctl As Control > > Set Ctl = Me.ActiveControl > MyCtl = Ctl.Name > > 'check to see if value has changed (variable HasChng assigned OnEnter) > 'if changed > > Set Db = CurrentDb() > Set Rst = Db.OpenRecordset(Me.RecordSource, dbOpenDynaset) > STable = Rst(Me(MyCtl).ControlSource).SourceTable > SField = Rst(Me(MyCtl).ControlSource).SourceField > > 'Assumes all tables have a Logger field > ' Find the record and tag it > > Set Rst2 = Db.OpenRecordset("select Logger from " & STable & " where " > & > SField & " = " & HasChng & ";", dbOpenDynaset) > Rst2.Edit > Rst2!Logger = "Yes" > Rst2.Update > rst2.close > set Rst2=nothing > Rst.Close > set Rst=nothing > 'endif > As I say this was a quick test but "Yes" did appear in the appropriate table > and > record. > > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From Jdemarco at hudsonhealthplan.org Mon Mar 1 08:13:08 2004 From: Jdemarco at hudsonhealthplan.org (Jim DeMarco) Date: Mon, 1 Mar 2004 09:13:08 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] A2K MDE Runtime Reference problem - URGENT Message-ID: <22F1CCD5171D17419CB37FEEE09D5F990173FDD1@TTNEXCHSRV1.hshhp.com> Gustav, The real mystery is that we have not changed or added any references. It just seems the date fields that have the problem. Thanks, Jim DeMarco -----Original Message----- From: Gustav Brock [mailto:gustav at cactus.dk] Sent: Monday, March 01, 2004 8:52 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] A2K MDE Runtime Reference problem - URGENT Hi Jim One source for the error may be that the default name for the Windows directory is WinNT in WinNT/2000 but Windows in Win 9x and Win XP. But what were the references in the original MDE? Does that MDE run under WinXP? If so, can you modify your MDE to have references as those of the original MDE? Or you could create a c:\windows folder on your Win2000 machine, copy the libraries to this and adjust your references before creating the MDE. Or you could follow the advice of Charlotte, I believe, and move your libraries to the folder of your installed MDE; but that would require an adjustment of your install script and you wanted to avoid that, right? /gustav > We have an open source app that we've modified and are installing at various doctor's offices in the area. The application came with an installation routine that installs the A2K runtime and the > app MDE. We use the install the app came with then overwrite the app MDE with our modified version. The application runs fine in-house after overwriting the MDE (Win2K) but on a contractor's > machine (WinXP) and a client's machine (Win98) we're losing a library reference (Date displays and functions calling Date functions fail with #Name? error). Since it's an MDE we can't see or > adjust the references (or can we?). Does anyone know how we can get the references straightened out? Are the client machines missing a DLL by chance?. > I've been attempting to create our own install package using InstallShield but it's looking for an *.msi file for the Access Runtime. I'm not sure where to find that either. I'm also not really > sure a fresh install package will fix the reference problem anyway. > TIA, > Jim DeMarco > Director Product Development > Hudson Health Plan -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From iggy at nanaimo.ark.com Mon Mar 1 08:16:40 2004 From: iggy at nanaimo.ark.com (Tony Septav) Date: Mon, 01 Mar 2004 06:16:40 -0800 Subject: [AccessD] Watching data References: Message-ID: <404345C8.B7D9E5BA@nanaimo.ark.com> Hey Jim There are a lot of little gems buried in Access, it is just being able to find them when you need them. That is what makes this list so valuable. Jim Dettman wrote: > Tony, > > << STable = Rst(Me(MyCtl).ControlSource).SourceTable > SField = Rst(Me(MyCtl).ControlSource).SourceField > >> > > Been a long time since I found something in Access that I didn't know > existed! I was shocked to realize this has been in DAO since version 2.0! > > That really makes what John is trying to do super easy. > > Good job! > > Jim Dettman > President, > Online Computer Services of WNY, Inc. > (315) 699-3443 > jimdettman at earthlink.net > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Tony Septav > Sent: Sunday, February 29, 2004 3:22 PM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: Re: [AccessD] Watching data > > Hey John > > Tried a quick test with a bound form to a query. > Query contained 2 tables. My test field in the query had an alias > eg. Tblname Account_Number, Qryname AcctNum > For the sake of the test the text box on the form was named with an alias > ActNo, control source from query Acctnum > > In Before Update > > Dim Db As Database, Rst As Recordset > Dim Rst2 As Recordset > Dim MyCtl As String > Dim STable As String, SField As String > Dim Ctl As Control > > Set Ctl = Me.ActiveControl > MyCtl = Ctl.Name > > 'check to see if value has changed (variable HasChng assigned OnEnter) > 'if changed > > Set Db = CurrentDb() > Set Rst = Db.OpenRecordset(Me.RecordSource, dbOpenDynaset) > STable = Rst(Me(MyCtl).ControlSource).SourceTable > SField = Rst(Me(MyCtl).ControlSource).SourceField > > 'Assumes all tables have a Logger field > ' Find the record and tag it > > Set Rst2 = Db.OpenRecordset("select Logger from " & STable & " where " > & > SField & " = " & HasChng & ";", dbOpenDynaset) > Rst2.Edit > Rst2!Logger = "Yes" > Rst2.Update > rst2.close > set Rst2=nothing > Rst.Close > set Rst=nothing > 'endif > As I say this was a quick test but "Yes" did appear in the appropriate table > and > record. > > "John W. Colby" wrote: > > > >I just thought of another one; what if you assign the forms recordsource > to > > a recordset variable in code so you can do transactions? I've never > looked > > at runtime to see what that looks like to a form object. > > > > AFAIK this isn't possible in A2K. > > > > John W. Colby > > www.ColbyConsulting.com > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Jim Dettman > > Sent: Sunday, February 29, 2004 2:37 PM > > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > > Subject: RE: [AccessD] Watching data > > > > John, > > > > < > by > > (I think) opening the query that the form is bound to, looking up the > field > > that the control is bound to, and looking at the properties of that field > in > > the query to discover what table / field the data comes from.>> > > > > Thought I had missed the boat on that one. > > > > < / > > new val" how do we discover the Tablename / Fieldname portion?>> > > > > I used the brute force approach in the past; I coded the table and field > > name that I wanted logged in the tag property for each control. > > > > Without doing that, you'd need to grab the form's recordsource and > figure > > out what it is. It could be a table name, query def, or SQL statement. > The > > first would be easy, as from that point you'd only need the controls > record > > source. The second you can figure out easy enough, but parsing it would > be > > a problem, especially if it in itself is based on sub queries. That > applies > > to querydef's as well. > > > > I'm not sure what Drew was thinking of, but I don't see any easy answers > > there. > > > > I just thought of another one; what if you assign the forms recordsource > > to a recordset variable in code so you can do transactions? I've never > > looked at runtime to see what that looks like to a form object. > > > > Jim Dettman > > President, > > Online Computer Services of WNY, Inc. > > (315) 699-3443 > > jimdettman at earthlink.net > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of John W. Colby > > Sent: Sunday, February 29, 2004 12:38 PM > > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > > Subject: RE: [AccessD] Watching data > > > > >but I'm assuming what you mean by "drilling down" is looping through all > > the controls > > > > I do control collection iteration collection all the time, starting with > my > > form class which has a control scanner (as I call it) which iterates the > > controls collection loading classes for each control found. > > > > No, by "drilling down" I mean discovering what the SOURCE of the data is > by > > (I think) opening the query that the form is bound to, looking up the > field > > that the control is bound to, and looking at the properties of that field > in > > the query to discover what table / field the data comes from. > > > > When a form / field is bound to data, what the data is can be non-trivial > to > > discover. For example the form could be bound to a query. The developer > > decides that rather than leaving the field names of that query alone, he > is > > going to rename CL_Addr1 to Address1 using field name aliases. Further > the > > query could be two or more tables linked together in the query (and still > > editable) so that fields from the claimant and a specific claim are all > > bound to controls on a form. Now when the data logger tries to log the > > data, what table is the data coming from, the claimant or the claim? > > Further is Address1 the actual field name in the table or is it an alias? > > > > Thus when it's time to log data and we want "table / field name / oldval / > > new val" how do we discover the Tablename / Fieldname portion? > > > > John W. Colby > > www.ColbyConsulting.com > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Jim Dettman > > Sent: Sunday, February 29, 2004 11:15 AM > > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > > Subject: RE: [AccessD] Watching data > > > > John, > > > > < > believe > > that Drew was the one that assured me that it is possible. I just have to > > see if I can find the hints of how. It had to do with opening the query > and > > inspecting the properties of the fields.>> > > > > I missed earlier parts of this discussion, but I'm assuming what you > mean > > by "drilling down" is looping through all the controls, then yes it > > certainly can be done. Any of the code floating out there to resize forms > > contains the logic required. If you don't have access to something like > > that, it's a pretty straight forward matter. > > > > Starting at the form level, you'd use the controls collection to iterate > > through all the controls for an object. Just be aware that you'll need to > > handle container controls (i.e. page frames and subforms), so it will be a > > series of nested loops. You might want to try and make it a recursive > > procedure. Performance wise, you also might want to restrict which > controls > > are looked at. For example, if you don't place controls in anything other > > then the detail section of forms, then no need to check the header and > > footer. > > > > Once you locate a control, you use the TypeOf function to figure out > what > > it is and if you need to deal with it. I would not bother checking the > > .enabled or .locked properties, but simply check .oldvalue vs .value, as > it > > should be faster that way. > > > > This would all be done in the BeforeUpdate event after your sure your > not > > going to cancel for any reason. > > > > As far as the change log, I've always used the approach of one record > per > > field change: > > > > tblLogID - Autonumber -PK > > LogDateTime - D/T > > LogType - String - "A"dd, "D"elete, "U"pdate > > TableName - String > > RecordPK - String > > FieldName - String > > TypeOf - Numeric - Indicates where "NewValue" is stored > > NewValue1 - String > > NewValue2 - Integer > > NewValue3 - Long > > NewValue4 - Single > > etc.... > > > > I don't bother to hold the .oldvalue because you'd be duplicating it in > > the table. You can also see that I don't bother to try and convert the > > .oldvalue into a common type (i.e. a string), but rather store the actual > > value. If I had access to the raw binary data, then I'd do so, but > without > > that, this seemed to be the cleanest way. > > > > I've used two different types of logic in working with the log file: > > > > Roll forward - used to recreate a database at a specific point in time. > > 1. Check point (backup) > > 2. Apply log changes in a "roll forward" to a specific date and time. > > > > Auditing: > > 1. Log file records are maintained as long as possible. > > > > I've primarily used this in HR type apps or others where it was required > > to recreate the data at a specific point in time. I haven't had to use > > logging/auditing in quite some time, but it was workable. I went with > > strings for the table name and field names, but I suppose you could come > up > > with some type of internal tracking system to use a numeric ID of some > type, > > but that is probably overkill. The only gotcha there is if you rename a > > table or field. Generally, that doesn't happen too often for me. > > > > HTH, > > Jim Dettman > > President, > > Online Computer Services of WNY, Inc. > > (315) 699-3443 > > jimdettman at earthlink.net > > > > -- > > _______________________________________________ > > AccessD mailing list > > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > -- > > _______________________________________________ > > AccessD mailing list > > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > -- > > _______________________________________________ > > AccessD mailing list > > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From joconnell at indy.rr.com Mon Mar 1 08:19:44 2004 From: joconnell at indy.rr.com (Joseph O'Connell) Date: Mon, 1 Mar 2004 09:19:44 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Cannot Enforce Referential Integrity Message-ID: <014501c3ff98$5195f5c0$6701a8c0@joe> Tina, Are the tables in the same database? Referential Integrity cannot be enforced between databases. If the parent table is in a BE and the child table is in the FE then the child table must be moved to the same BE to allow referential integrity. Joe O'Connell -----Original Message----- From: Tina Norris Fields To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Date: Sunday, February 29, 2004 3:26 PM Subject: Re: [AccessD] Cannot Enforce Referential Integrity |Thanks John and Stuart. She indicated that the joined fields were PK in |parent table and FK in child table - but, I will double check. Thanks |for the thoughts. |Tina | |John W. Colby wrote: | |>Actually if the field in the parent is not designated the PK and / or no |>index on the child FK. |> |>John W. Colby |>www.ColbyConsulting.com |> |>-----Original Message----- |>From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com |>[mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Stuart |>McLachlan |>Sent: Saturday, February 28, 2004 6:14 PM |>To: Access Developers discussion and problemsolving |>Subject: Re: [AccessD] Cannot Enforce Referential Integrity |> |> |>On 28 Feb 2004 at 15:28, Tina Norris Fields wrote: |> |> |> |>>A student of mine is trying to remodel a database for her employer. I |>>think the database was converted from A97 to AXP (A2K format). She was |>>reviewing the relationships and wanted to enforce referential integrity |>>on one or more relationships. She reports that the checkbox for |>>enforcing referential integrity was dimmed and unavailable. I don't |>>know much more about this particular database. Any ideas as to why the |>>enforce referential integrity choice would be made unavailable? |>>Thanks, |>>Tina |>> |>> |>> |>Usually this happens if there is no unique index on the joined fields |>in the parent table. |> |> |>-- |>Lexacorp Ltd |>http://www.lexacorp.com.pg |>Information Technology Consultancy, Software Development,System |>Support. |> |> |> |>-- |>_______________________________________________ |>AccessD mailing list |>AccessD at databaseadvisors.com |>http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd |>Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com |> |> |> |> |> | |-- |_______________________________________________ |AccessD mailing list |AccessD at databaseadvisors.com |http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd |Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From gustav at cactus.dk Mon Mar 1 08:32:24 2004 From: gustav at cactus.dk (Gustav Brock) Date: Mon, 1 Mar 2004 15:32:24 +0100 Subject: [AccessD] A2K MDE Runtime Reference problem - URGENT In-Reply-To: <22F1CCD5171D17419CB37FEEE09D5F990173FDD1@TTNEXCHSRV1.hshhp.com> References: <22F1CCD5171D17419CB37FEEE09D5F990173FDD1@TTNEXCHSRV1.hshhp.com> Message-ID: <13223526228.20040301153224@cactus.dk> Hi Jim The Date fields are the symptom only. The cure is to locate and reestablish one or more missing reference. Access will - and is quite good at it but not perfect - try to locate any missing reference in the current environment, thus adjusting the path for each of these references. Maybe Access succeeded when the MDE was moved to your platform (Win2000 and C:\WINNT) but failed when it moved "back" (Win 9x/XP and C:\Windows) at the clients. /gustav > The real mystery is that we have not changed or added any references. It just seems the date fields that have the problem. From ssharkins at bellsouth.net Mon Mar 1 08:38:01 2004 From: ssharkins at bellsouth.net (Susan Harkins) Date: Mon, 1 Mar 2004 09:38:01 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] OT -- FP question Message-ID: <20040301143800.NYQI1860.imf24aec.mail.bellsouth.net@SUSANONE> I asked a FrontPage question over on OT before coming here -- no takers. I've checked the Internet, Help -- even a few other experts and not found anything. The new FrontPage 2003 File menu has an option "Go to Function" -- I've no clue what it is and it has been disabled since day one -- no matter what view I'm in. Can anyone tell me what this command does and how to enable it? I've run a Repair, and it's still always disabled. Susan H. From mwp.reid at qub.ac.uk Mon Mar 1 08:45:19 2004 From: mwp.reid at qub.ac.uk (Martin Reid) Date: Mon, 1 Mar 2004 14:45:19 -0000 Subject: [AccessD] OT -- FP question References: <20040301143800.NYQI1860.imf24aec.mail.bellsouth.net@SUSANONE> Message-ID: <000901c3ff9b$d13633f0$9111758f@aine> I believe it gos to a specific named function when in code view only. Try using it with a .NET page and see what it does. Didnt see this on OT. Martin ----- Original Message ----- From: "Susan Harkins" To: "'Access Developers discussion and problem solving'" Sent: Monday, March 01, 2004 2:38 PM Subject: [AccessD] OT -- FP question > I asked a FrontPage question over on OT before coming here -- no takers. > I've checked the Internet, Help -- even a few other experts and not found > anything. > > The new FrontPage 2003 File menu has an option "Go to Function" -- I've no > clue what it is and it has been disabled since day one -- no matter what > view I'm in. Can anyone tell me what this command does and how to enable it? > I've run a Repair, and it's still always disabled. > > Susan H. > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > From ssharkins at bellsouth.net Mon Mar 1 08:56:44 2004 From: ssharkins at bellsouth.net (Susan Harkins) Date: Mon, 1 Mar 2004 09:56:44 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] OT -- FP question In-Reply-To: <000901c3ff9b$d13633f0$9111758f@aine> Message-ID: <20040301145644.CIZJ1897.imf18aec.mail.bellsouth.net@SUSANONE> Don't even have .NET installed Martin -- and no, didn't ask this one on OT, but another FP question -- this function isn't enabled in Code view -- never enabled. I've tried them all -- all that I know of anyway. And I can't find anything in Help on it -- it's like it doesn't exist! I forgot what the other question was. I guess I solved it on my own. Gotta say -- I find FP 2003 much easier to use than Dreamweaver MX -- but I don't want to start a thread on this -- not here, I'll get in trouble! ;) If you figure it out, would you send me a response privately? I guess anyone that knows ought to respond privately if they don't mind. Thank you. ;) Susan H. I believe it gos to a specific named function when in code view only. Try using it with a .NET page and see what it does. Didnt see this on OT. Martin ----- Original Message ----- From: "Susan Harkins" To: "'Access Developers discussion and problem solving'" Sent: Monday, March 01, 2004 2:38 PM Subject: [AccessD] OT -- FP question > I asked a FrontPage question over on OT before coming here -- no takers. > I've checked the Internet, Help -- even a few other experts and not found > anything. > > The new FrontPage 2003 File menu has an option "Go to Function" -- I've no > clue what it is and it has been disabled since day one -- no matter what > view I'm in. Can anyone tell me what this command does and how to enable it? > I've run a Repair, and it's still always disabled. > > Susan H. > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From Jdemarco at hudsonhealthplan.org Mon Mar 1 09:22:34 2004 From: Jdemarco at hudsonhealthplan.org (Jim DeMarco) Date: Mon, 1 Mar 2004 10:22:34 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] A2K MDE Runtime Reference problem - URGENT Message-ID: <22F1CCD5171D17419CB37FEEE09D5F990173FDD2@TTNEXCHSRV1.hshhp.com> I just installed on an XP system here and the app worked. Some read-only issues that I believe relate to security on the machine I was on but the date functions all worked. I seem to recall some code in the archives that set references. I'll take a look there and see what comes up. Thanks again, Jim D. -----Original Message----- From: Gustav Brock [mailto:gustav at cactus.dk] Sent: Monday, March 01, 2004 9:32 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] A2K MDE Runtime Reference problem - URGENT Hi Jim The Date fields are the symptom only. The cure is to locate and reestablish one or more missing reference. Access will - and is quite good at it but not perfect - try to locate any missing reference in the current environment, thus adjusting the path for each of these references. Maybe Access succeeded when the MDE was moved to your platform (Win2000 and C:\WINNT) but failed when it moved "back" (Win 9x/XP and C:\Windows) at the clients. /gustav > The real mystery is that we have not changed or added any references. It just seems the date fields that have the problem. -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From gustav at cactus.dk Mon Mar 1 09:33:45 2004 From: gustav at cactus.dk (Gustav Brock) Date: Mon, 1 Mar 2004 16:33:45 +0100 Subject: [AccessD] A2K MDE Runtime Reference problem - URGENT In-Reply-To: <22F1CCD5171D17419CB37FEEE09D5F990173FDD2@TTNEXCHSRV1.hshhp.com> References: <22F1CCD5171D17419CB37FEEE09D5F990173FDD2@TTNEXCHSRV1.hshhp.com> Message-ID: <11027207862.20040301163345@cactus.dk> Hi Jim Maybe your client installed it without Administrator rights - which you probably did? /gustav > I just installed on an XP system here and the app worked. Some read-only issues that I believe relate to security on the machine I was on but the date functions all worked. > I seem to recall some code in the archives that set references. I'll take a look there and see what comes up. > Thanks again, > Jim D. > -----Original Message----- > From: Gustav Brock [mailto:gustav at cactus.dk] > Sent: Monday, March 01, 2004 9:32 AM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: Re: [AccessD] A2K MDE Runtime Reference problem - URGENT > Hi Jim > The Date fields are the symptom only. > The cure is to locate and reestablish one or more missing reference. > Access will - and is quite good at it but not perfect - try to locate > any missing reference in the current environment, thus adjusting the > path for each of these references. > Maybe Access succeeded when the MDE was moved to your platform > (Win2000 and C:\WINNT) but failed when it moved "back" (Win 9x/XP and > C:\Windows) at the clients. > /gustav >> The real mystery is that we have not changed or added any references. It just seems the date fields that have the problem. From actebs at actebs.com.au Mon Mar 1 09:38:20 2004 From: actebs at actebs.com.au (ACTEBS) Date: Tue, 2 Mar 2004 02:38:20 +1100 Subject: [AccessD] Meld 3 Text Files - Urgent In-Reply-To: <883023787.20040301095041@cactus.dk> Message-ID: <002401c3ffa3$3c70bf80$0b08a8c0@carltonone.local> Hey Gustav, Many thanks to you and Paul, got me out of a bind and did the trick... Thanks again Vlad -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Gustav Brock Sent: Monday, 1 March 2004 7:51 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Meld 3 Text Files - Urgent Hi Vlad The quick-n-dirty road is to use Shell and this DOS command: copy file1.txt+file2.txt+file3.txt file.txt If you prefer VBA code and the files are relatively small, you can just open them one by one, read the lines and append them to the new file one by one. As posted many times here, Seth has on his site the basic code for reading and writing text files. /gustav > I have a small project that exports text files (3 of them) in a fixed > width format. Now the company requires that these 3 files be melded > into 1 text file only as apparently their import procedure knows when > to import the one file into separate tables at their end. > I have no problem creating the 3 separate text files, but how do you > go about melding these 3 separate files into 1? > Any ideas most welcome... > Regards > Vlad -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From Oleg_123 at xuppa.com Mon Mar 1 10:20:16 2004 From: Oleg_123 at xuppa.com (Oleg_123 at xuppa.com) Date: Mon, 1 Mar 2004 11:20:16 -0500 (EST) Subject: [AccessD] Union the transform queris ? In-Reply-To: <002401c3ffa3$3c70bf80$0b08a8c0@carltonone.local> References: <883023787.20040301095041@cactus.dk> <002401c3ffa3$3c70bf80$0b08a8c0@carltonone.local> Message-ID: <11660.63.251.87.214.1078158016.squirrel@heck.bay9.com> hey group. Is it possible to perform an union query on 2 (or more) transform queries if the field names are he same ? TRANSFORM Count([Ron Data spr].[ID]) AS Total SELECT "Closed without Investigation" AS Status FROM [Ron Data spr] WHERE ([Ron Data spr].[Preliminary Investigation Closed] >= [Forms]![Report Form]![Start_Date]) And ([Ron Data spr].[Preliminary Investigation Closed]<=[Forms]![Report Form]![End_Date]) and ([Preliminary Investigation closed] is not null and [Investigation Opened] is null) GROUP BY "Closed without Investigation" PIVOT Format([Preliminary Investigation Closed],"mmm") In ("Jan","Feb","Mar","Apr","May","Jun","Jul","Aug","Sep","Oct","Nov","Dec") TRANSFORM Count([Ron Data spr].[ID]) AS Total Union SELECT "Pre Investigation Opened" AS Status FROM [Ron Data spr] WHERE ([Ron Data spr].[Preliminary Investigation Opened] >= [Forms]![Report Form]![Start_Date]) And ([Ron Data spr].[Preliminary Investigation Opened]<=[Forms]![Report Form]![End_Date]) and [Preliminary Investigation Opened] is not null GROUP BY "Pre Investigation Opened" PIVOT Format([Preliminary Investigation Opened],"mmm") In ("Jan","Feb","Mar","Apr","May","Jun","Jul","Aug","Sep","Oct","Nov","Dec"); ----------------------------------------- Get Breaking News from CNN, ABC, NBC, CBS Now. http://www.xuppa.com/news/?link=webmail From gjgiever at yahoo.com Mon Mar 1 10:20:40 2004 From: gjgiever at yahoo.com (Gary) Date: Mon, 1 Mar 2004 08:20:40 -0800 (PST) Subject: [AccessD] File already in use Message-ID: <20040301162040.47144.qmail@web10504.mail.yahoo.com> I know this has come up before but my search is not producing anything useful. Suddenly this morning our Access 97 users are locking each other out right and left. We are getting either Error 3045 or Error 3051, both stating basically that the file is opened exclusively by another user. Our network supervisor was working on the network all weekend and I don't know what he did to it. Any ideas where to look for an answer? ===== Gary "In ancient times they had no statistics so they had to fall back on lies." --Stephen Leacock __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Get better spam protection with Yahoo! Mail. http://antispam.yahoo.com/tools From my.lists at verizon.net Mon Mar 1 10:36:11 2004 From: my.lists at verizon.net (Francisco H Tapia) Date: Mon, 01 Mar 2004 08:36:11 -0800 Subject: [AccessD] Sending multiple e-mails In-Reply-To: <70F3D727890C784291D8433E9C418F298F68@server.bondsoftware.co.nz> References: <70F3D727890C784291D8433E9C418F298F68@server.bondsoftware.co.nz> Message-ID: <4043667B.7010300@verizon.net> Try blat. I have a ssd (small sample database) you can try at the following url http://www.rogersaccesslibrary.com/OtherLibraries.asp#Tapia,Francsico let me know if you need any help. Stephen Bond wrote: >Outlook 2000 on the development box, connecting to Windows2000 Server (Exchange Server) on the server box. All e-mail addresses at present are local, on the customer's computer they won't be. > >I hope this is what you're asking for, I'm no expert in this area :< > >Stephen Bond > > > >>-----Original Message----- >>From: Stuart McLachlan [mailto:stuart at lexacorp.com.pg] >>Sent: Sunday, 29 February 2004 8:57 p.m. >>To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving >>Subject: Re: [AccessD] Sending multiple e-mails >> >> >>On 29 Feb 2004 at 20:21, Stephen Bond wrote: >> >> >> >>> The problem is the first record in the recordset pops up as a >>> new mail message OK, but subsequent records don't. The >>> debugging MsgBox comes up for each record so I know the loop >>> is getting the right records. Changing the SendObject's >>> 'editmessage' flag from True to False doesn't make any difference. >>> Eventually I want to change the SendObject's 'editmessage' >>> flag from True to False so the e-mails go straight out >>> without visual verification. The False is for testing >>> purposes meantime. >>> >>> >>> >>What's the mail client? I'd suspect a problem with the client >>accepting a second new message when the first one is open. >> >> -- -Francisco From Jdemarco at hudsonhealthplan.org Mon Mar 1 10:52:42 2004 From: Jdemarco at hudsonhealthplan.org (Jim DeMarco) Date: Mon, 1 Mar 2004 11:52:42 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] A2K MDE Runtime Reference problem - URGENT Message-ID: <22F1CCD5171D17419CB37FEEE09D5F990173FDDB@TTNEXCHSRV1.hshhp.com> Yes I did. I'll check to see if they did. I just did a win98 install got the #name? error which is good in that at least I've got a platform to test against. Jim -----Original Message----- From: Gustav Brock [mailto:gustav at cactus.dk] Sent: Monday, March 01, 2004 10:34 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] A2K MDE Runtime Reference problem - URGENT Hi Jim Maybe your client installed it without Administrator rights - which you probably did? /gustav > I just installed on an XP system here and the app worked. Some read-only issues that I believe relate to security on the machine I was on but the date functions all worked. > I seem to recall some code in the archives that set references. I'll take a look there and see what comes up. > Thanks again, > Jim D. > -----Original Message----- > From: Gustav Brock [mailto:gustav at cactus.dk] > Sent: Monday, March 01, 2004 9:32 AM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: Re: [AccessD] A2K MDE Runtime Reference problem - URGENT > Hi Jim > The Date fields are the symptom only. > The cure is to locate and reestablish one or more missing reference. > Access will - and is quite good at it but not perfect - try to locate > any missing reference in the current environment, thus adjusting the > path for each of these references. > Maybe Access succeeded when the MDE was moved to your platform > (Win2000 and C:\WINNT) but failed when it moved "back" (Win 9x/XP and > C:\Windows) at the clients. > /gustav >> The real mystery is that we have not changed or added any references. It just seems the date fields that have the problem. -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From rgilimited at btconnect.com Mon Mar 1 10:57:51 2004 From: rgilimited at btconnect.com (Robin Lawrence) Date: Mon, 1 Mar 2004 16:57:51 -0000 Subject: [AccessD] File already in use In-Reply-To: <20040301162040.47144.qmail@web10504.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <000001c3ffae$55bd5650$5373a8c0@local> Gary, Sounds like a permissions error - check the users have full permissions on the database folder and the mdb file - also that the mdb has not been marked as read only HTH Rgds Robin Lawrence -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Gary Sent: 01 March 2004 16:21 To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: [AccessD] File already in use I know this has come up before but my search is not producing anything useful. Suddenly this morning our Access 97 users are locking each other out right and left. We are getting either Error 3045 or Error 3051, both stating basically that the file is opened exclusively by another user. Our network supervisor was working on the network all weekend and I don't know what he did to it. Any ideas where to look for an answer? ===== Gary "In ancient times they had no statistics so they had to fall back on lies." --Stephen Leacock __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Get better spam protection with Yahoo! Mail. http://antispam.yahoo.com/tools -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From Patricia.O'Connor at DFA.STATE.NY.US Mon Mar 1 11:34:21 2004 From: Patricia.O'Connor at DFA.STATE.NY.US (O'Connor, Patricia ) Date: Mon, 1 Mar 2004 12:34:21 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Union the transform queris ? Message-ID: Pretty sure you will have to make 2 queries for this when using ACCESS TABLES I created a dummy table and tried to do what you wanted in one and it was not working. SO I removed the transform and made just a plain select query which I used as input to the crosstab Somebody else may know of another way for ACCESS TABLES query 1 named qrytst1 in my test: SELECT tst1.ID, "Closed without Investigation" AS Status, PrelimClosedt as InvDt FROM TST1 WHERE (PrelimClosedt >= [Start_Date]) And (PrelimClosedt <= [End_Date]) and (TST1.PrelimClosedt Is Not Null AND TST1.InvestigationOpen Is Null) UNION all SELECT tst1.Id, "Pre Investigation Opened" AS Status, PrelimOpendt as InvDt FROM TST1 WHERE (PrelimOpendt >= [Start_Date]) And (PrelimOpendt <= [End_Date]) and (TST1.PrelimOpendt Is Not Null AND TST1.InvestigationOpen Is Null) query two named qrytst1_Crosstab in my test TRANSFORM Count([ID]) SELECT [Status], Count([ID]) AS [Total Of ID] FROM qrytst1 GROUP BY [Status] PIVOT Format([InvDt],"mmm") IN ("Jan","Feb","Mar","Apr","May","Jun","Jul","Aug","Sep","Oct","Nov","Dec"); HTH Patti > -----Original Message----- > From: Oleg_123 at xuppa.com [mailto:Oleg_123 at xuppa.com] > Sent: Monday, March 01, 2004 11:20 AM > To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com > Subject: [AccessD] Union the transform queris ? > > > hey group. > > Is it possible to perform an union query on 2 (or more) > transform queries > if the field names are he same ? > > TRANSFORM Count([Ron Data spr].[ID]) AS Total > SELECT "Closed without Investigation" AS Status > FROM [Ron Data spr] > WHERE ([Ron Data spr].[Preliminary Investigation Closed] >= [Forms]![Report Form]![Start_Date]) And ([Ron Data spr].[Preliminary Investigation Closed]<=[Forms]![Report Form]![End_Date]) and ([Preliminary Investigation closed] is not null and [Investigation Opened] is null) > GROUP BY "Closed without Investigation" > PIVOT Format([Preliminary Investigation Closed],"mmm") In > ("Jan","Feb","Mar","Apr","May","Jun","Jul","Aug","Sep","Oct"," > Nov","Dec") > > TRANSFORM Count([Ron Data spr].[ID]) AS Total > Union SELECT "Pre Investigation Opened" AS Status > FROM [Ron Data spr] > WHERE ([Ron Data spr].[Preliminary Investigation Opened] >= > [Forms]![Report Form]![Start_Date]) And ([Ron Data spr].[Preliminary > Investigation Opened]<=[Forms]![Report Form]![End_Date]) and > [Preliminary > Investigation Opened] is not null > GROUP BY "Pre Investigation Opened" > PIVOT Format([Preliminary Investigation Opened],"mmm") In > ("Jan","Feb","Mar","Apr","May","Jun","Jul","Aug","Sep","Oct"," > Nov","Dec"); > > > > ----------------------------------------- > Get Breaking News from CNN, ABC, NBC, CBS Now. > http://www.xuppa.com/news/?link=webmail > > > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > From gustav at cactus.dk Mon Mar 1 11:36:56 2004 From: gustav at cactus.dk (Gustav Brock) Date: Mon, 1 Mar 2004 18:36:56 +0100 Subject: [AccessD] A2K MDE Runtime Reference problem - URGENT In-Reply-To: <22F1CCD5171D17419CB37FEEE09D5F990173FDDB@TTNEXCHSRV1.hshhp.com> References: <22F1CCD5171D17419CB37FEEE09D5F990173FDDB@TTNEXCHSRV1.hshhp.com> Message-ID: <14034598219.20040301183656@cactus.dk> Hi Jim > Yes I did. I'll check to see if they did. I just did a win98 > install got the #name? error which is good in that at least I've got > a platform to test against. I forgot, at Win 98 it can't be an admin rights' issue. Then it's probably because a reference exists on Win 98 but of a lower version than that on your development machine. Access is not very keen to accept a lower version of a reference. Either install the newer version of the reference on Win 98 or compile your app with the lower version of the reference. /gustav > Maybe your client installed it without Administrator rights - which > you probably did? > /gustav >> I just installed on an XP system here and the app worked. Some read-only issues that I believe relate to security on the machine I was on but the date functions all worked. >> I seem to recall some code in the archives that set references. I'll take a look there and see what comes up. >> Thanks again, >> Jim D. >> -----Original Message----- >> From: Gustav Brock [mailto:gustav at cactus.dk] >> Sent: Monday, March 01, 2004 9:32 AM >> To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving >> Subject: Re: [AccessD] A2K MDE Runtime Reference problem - URGENT >> Hi Jim >> The Date fields are the symptom only. >> The cure is to locate and reestablish one or more missing reference. >> Access will - and is quite good at it but not perfect - try to locate >> any missing reference in the current environment, thus adjusting the >> path for each of these references. >> Maybe Access succeeded when the MDE was moved to your platform >> (Win2000 and C:\WINNT) but failed when it moved "back" (Win 9x/XP and >> C:\Windows) at the clients. >> /gustav >>> The real mystery is that we have not changed or added any references. It just seems the date fields that have the problem. From gjgiever at yahoo.com Mon Mar 1 12:18:57 2004 From: gjgiever at yahoo.com (Gary) Date: Mon, 1 Mar 2004 10:18:57 -0800 (PST) Subject: [AccessD] File already in use In-Reply-To: <000001c3ffae$55bd5650$5373a8c0@local> Message-ID: <20040301181857.68510.qmail@web10504.mail.yahoo.com> Thank you. We shall check that out. --- Robin Lawrence wrote: > Gary, > Sounds like a permissions error - check the users > have full permissions > on the database folder and the mdb file - also that > the mdb has not > been marked as read only > HTH > Rgds > Robin Lawrence > > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On > Behalf Of Gary > Sent: 01 March 2004 16:21 > To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com > Subject: [AccessD] File already in use > > > I know this has come up before but my search is not > producing anything useful. > > Suddenly this morning our Access 97 users are > locking > each other out right and left. We are getting > either > Error 3045 or Error 3051, both stating basically > that > the file is opened exclusively by another user. Our > network supervisor was working on the network all > weekend and I don't know what he did to it. Any > ideas > where to look for an answer? > > ===== > Gary > > "In ancient times they had no statistics so they had > to fall back on > lies." --Stephen Leacock > > __________________________________ > Do you Yahoo!? > Get better spam protection with Yahoo! Mail. > http://antispam.yahoo.com/tools > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com ===== Gary "In ancient times they had no statistics so they had to fall back on lies." --Stephen Leacock __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Get better spam protection with Yahoo! Mail. http://antispam.yahoo.com/tools From bchacc at san.rr.com Mon Mar 1 12:27:31 2004 From: bchacc at san.rr.com (Rocky Smolin - Beach Access Software) Date: Mon, 1 Mar 2004 10:27:31 -0800 Subject: [AccessD] A2K MDE Runtime Reference problem - URGENT References: <22F1CCD5171D17419CB37FEEE09D5F990173FDDB@TTNEXCHSRV1.hshhp.com> <14034598219.20040301183656@cactus.dk> Message-ID: <010401c3ffba$dc6eba70$6801a8c0@HAL9002> Jim: If they can load Access on that machine, you could send them a stripped down version of the app as an mdb and it should blow dumping them into the code window. From there you could walk them through displaying the references to see which one is broken and the do a search on it, copying it to the expected directory. Rocky ----- Original Message ----- From: "Gustav Brock" To: "Access Developers discussion and problem solving" Sent: Monday, March 01, 2004 9:36 AM Subject: Re: [AccessD] A2K MDE Runtime Reference problem - URGENT > Hi Jim > > > Yes I did. I'll check to see if they did. I just did a win98 > > install got the #name? error which is good in that at least I've got > > a platform to test against. > > I forgot, at Win 98 it can't be an admin rights' issue. > > Then it's probably because a reference exists on Win 98 but of a lower > version than that on your development machine. Access is not very keen > to accept a lower version of a reference. > Either install the newer version of the reference on Win 98 or compile > your app with the lower version of the reference. > > /gustav > > > > Maybe your client installed it without Administrator rights - which > > you probably did? > > > /gustav > > > >> I just installed on an XP system here and the app worked. Some read-only issues that I believe relate to security on the machine I was on but the date functions all worked. > > >> I seem to recall some code in the archives that set references. I'll take a look there and see what comes up. > > >> Thanks again, > > >> Jim D. > > >> -----Original Message----- > >> From: Gustav Brock [mailto:gustav at cactus.dk] > >> Sent: Monday, March 01, 2004 9:32 AM > >> To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > >> Subject: Re: [AccessD] A2K MDE Runtime Reference problem - URGENT > > > >> Hi Jim > > >> The Date fields are the symptom only. > >> The cure is to locate and reestablish one or more missing reference. > > >> Access will - and is quite good at it but not perfect - try to locate > >> any missing reference in the current environment, thus adjusting the > >> path for each of these references. > >> Maybe Access succeeded when the MDE was moved to your platform > >> (Win2000 and C:\WINNT) but failed when it moved "back" (Win 9x/XP and > >> C:\Windows) at the clients. > > >> /gustav > > >>> The real mystery is that we have not changed or added any references. It just seems the date fields that have the problem. > > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > From bchacc at san.rr.com Mon Mar 1 12:29:16 2004 From: bchacc at san.rr.com (Rocky Smolin - Beach Access Software) Date: Mon, 1 Mar 2004 10:29:16 -0800 Subject: [AccessD] Office 2003 Developer? References: <20040229141430.VELL1830.imf16aec.mail.bellsouth.net@SUSANONE> Message-ID: <012201c3ffbb$1b0474f0$6801a8c0@HAL9002> SO how does one package and deploy in AXP? What's the best solution? Rocky ----- Original Message ----- From: "Susan Harkins" To: "'Access Developers discussion and problem solving'" Sent: Sunday, February 29, 2004 6:14 AM Subject: RE: [AccessD] Office 2003 Developer? > Developer was dropped for 2003. > > Susan H. > > ...afaik "Microsoft Office Access 2003 Developer Extensions" is used to > create Access 2003 runtime packages and is a component of "Microsoft Visual > StudioR Tools for the Microsoft Office System" ...VS Tools supports C# and > VB in addition to VBA ...I've not seen a distinct ODE as in XP. > > > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > From stuart at pacific.net.hk Mon Mar 1 13:03:15 2004 From: stuart at pacific.net.hk (Stuart Sanders) Date: Tue, 2 Mar 2004 03:03:15 +0800 Subject: [AccessD] Office 2003 Developer? In-Reply-To: <012201c3ffbb$1b0474f0$6801a8c0@HAL9002> Message-ID: <02d301c3ffbf$da61e130$5c0840ca@nbbits01> AXP came with a developer version. Its A2003 that doesn't. I presume you are supposed to use .net now, but I haven't done that much research on it and don't have any current intention to. AXP is probably the last MS development environment I am going to use. Stuart > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of > Rocky Smolin - Beach Access Software > Sent: Tuesday, 2 March 2004 2:29 AM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: Re: [AccessD] Office 2003 Developer? > > > SO how does one package and deploy in AXP? What's the best solution? > > Rocky > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Susan Harkins" > To: "'Access Developers discussion and problem solving'" > > Sent: Sunday, February 29, 2004 6:14 AM > Subject: RE: [AccessD] Office 2003 Developer? > > > > Developer was dropped for 2003. > > > > Susan H. > > > > ...afaik "Microsoft Office Access 2003 Developer > Extensions" is used to > > create Access 2003 runtime packages and is a component of "Microsoft > Visual > > StudioR Tools for the Microsoft Office System" ...VS Tools > supports C# and > > VB in addition to VBA ...I've not seen a distinct ODE as in XP. > > > > > > -- > > _______________________________________________ > > AccessD mailing list > > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > From cfoust at infostatsystems.com Mon Mar 1 13:20:33 2004 From: cfoust at infostatsystems.com (Charlotte Foust) Date: Mon, 1 Mar 2004 11:20:33 -0800 Subject: [AccessD] Office 2003 Developer? Message-ID: Do you mean in 2003? You use the Visual Studio Tools for Office 2003, which includes the runtime file and distribution license for Access2003. The Access tools are part of the package. There is a packaging wizard in it, but I haven't looked at it. Charlotte Foust -----Original Message----- From: Rocky Smolin - Beach Access Software [mailto:bchacc at san.rr.com] Sent: Monday, March 01, 2004 10:29 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Office 2003 Developer? SO how does one package and deploy in AXP? What's the best solution? Rocky ----- Original Message ----- From: "Susan Harkins" To: "'Access Developers discussion and problem solving'" Sent: Sunday, February 29, 2004 6:14 AM Subject: RE: [AccessD] Office 2003 Developer? > Developer was dropped for 2003. > > Susan H. > > ...afaik "Microsoft Office Access 2003 Developer Extensions" is used > to create Access 2003 runtime packages and is a component of > "Microsoft Visual > StudioR Tools for the Microsoft Office System" ...VS Tools supports C# > and VB in addition to VBA ...I've not seen a distinct ODE as in XP. > > > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From jamie at kriegelpcsolutions.com Mon Mar 1 14:56:52 2004 From: jamie at kriegelpcsolutions.com (Jamie Kriegel) Date: Mon, 1 Mar 2004 14:56:52 -0600 Subject: [AccessD] Importing Question In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <200403012053.i21KrZM29174@databaseadvisors.com> Hopefully this is a simple question. I have an Access 2000 database that is split. I have another Access 2000 database that I'd like to combine with this one and am not sure the best method. I need the two combined so that I can use info from both in my reports. Would it be better to just link to the tables in the other database as all I really want is access to the tables for my reports and keep the databases separate? If I choose to just combine both databases, what is the best method, considering dbA is a split database and dbB is not. Thanks for any help! Jamie From Lambert.Heenan at AIG.com Mon Mar 1 15:36:01 2004 From: Lambert.Heenan at AIG.com (Heenan, Lambert) Date: Mon, 1 Mar 2004 16:36:01 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Importing Question Message-ID: <8B98F8EA48F8BA47A2F24E0D0AF40CF407AD7EFB@xlivmbx12.aig.com> I'd say for sure to just link to the other database. Lambert > -----Original Message----- > From: Jamie Kriegel [SMTP:jamie at kriegelpcsolutions.com] > Sent: Monday, March 01, 2004 3:57 PM > To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' > Subject: [AccessD] Importing Question > > Hopefully this is a simple question. > > I have an Access 2000 database that is split. I have another Access 2000 > database that I'd like to combine with this one and am not sure the best > method. I need the two combined so that I can use info from both in my > reports. Would it be better to just link to the tables in the other > database as all I really want is access to the tables for my reports and > keep the databases separate? If I choose to just combine both databases, > what is the best method, considering dbA is a split database and dbB is > not. > > Thanks for any help! > > Jamie > > > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From accessd at shaw.ca Mon Mar 1 19:19:13 2004 From: accessd at shaw.ca (Jim Lawrence (AccessD)) Date: Mon, 01 Mar 2004 17:19:13 -0800 Subject: [AccessD] Union the transform queris ? In-Reply-To: <11660.63.251.87.214.1078158016.squirrel@heck.bay9.com> Message-ID: Hi Oleg: With just a quick look the code below should work. This assumes that the data brought back from each TRANSFORM section is identical in field count and type. Just needs closed curved brackets around each section and appropriate Union type clause in between. HTH Jim ... (TRANSFORM Count([Ron Data spr].[ID]) AS Total SELECT "Closed without Investigation" AS Status FROM [Ron Data spr] WHERE ([Ron Data spr].[Preliminary Investigation Closed] >= [Forms]![Report Form]![Start_Date]) And ([Ron Data spr].[Preliminary Investigation Closed]<=[Forms]![Report Form]![End_Date]) and ([Preliminary Investigation closed] is not null and [Investigation Opened] is null) GROUP BY "Closed without Investigation" PIVOT Format([Preliminary Investigation Closed],"mmm") In ("Jan","Feb","Mar","Apr","May","Jun","Jul","Aug","Sep","Oct","Nov","Dec")) UNION ALL (TRANSFORM Count([Ron Data spr].[ID]) AS Total Union SELECT "Pre Investigation Opened" AS Status FROM [Ron Data spr] WHERE ([Ron Data spr].[Preliminary Investigation Opened] >= [Forms]![Report Form]![Start_Date]) And ([Ron Data spr].[Preliminary Investigation Opened]<=[Forms]![Report Form]![End_Date]) and [Preliminary Investigation Opened] is not null GROUP BY "Pre Investigation Opened" PIVOT Format([Preliminary Investigation Opened],"mmm") In ("Jan","Feb","Mar","Apr","May","Jun","Jul","Aug","Sep","Oct","Nov","Dec")) ... From Jeff at OUTBAKTech.com Mon Mar 1 22:57:24 2004 From: Jeff at OUTBAKTech.com (Jeff Barrows) Date: Mon, 1 Mar 2004 22:57:24 -0600 Subject: [AccessD] Church Database Message-ID: <8DA8776D2F418E46A2A464AC6CE6305092B7@outbaksrv1.outbaktech.com> Hello Group!!! Before I get too involved, I seem to recall someone saying something a while ago about doing some software for a church. If anyone has such an app and are willing to consider sharing it, could you drop me a line? Jeff Barrows Outbak Technologies, LLC Racine, WI Phone: (262) 634-0653 Mailto: jeff_developer at hotmail.com www.outbaktech.com From bchacc at san.rr.com Mon Mar 1 23:21:40 2004 From: bchacc at san.rr.com (Rocky Smolin - Beach Access Software) Date: Mon, 1 Mar 2004 21:21:40 -0800 Subject: [AccessD] Church Database References: <8DA8776D2F418E46A2A464AC6CE6305092B7@outbaksrv1.outbaktech.com> Message-ID: <02fd01c40016$3e90e420$6801a8c0@HAL9002> I once did a communion wafer distribution system for the Carmelite nuns on San Diego (a real cloistered monastery in the middle of the city), called CABS (Carmelite Altar Bread System). Very interesting time. I don't think that's what you're after but that's as close as I got. Rocky ----- Original Message ----- From: "Jeff Barrows" To: "AccessD" Sent: Monday, March 01, 2004 8:57 PM Subject: [AccessD] Church Database Hello Group!!! Before I get too involved, I seem to recall someone saying something a while ago about doing some software for a church. If anyone has such an app and are willing to consider sharing it, could you drop me a line? Jeff Barrows Outbak Technologies, LLC Racine, WI Phone: (262) 634-0653 Mailto: jeff_developer at hotmail.com www.outbaktech.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From Jeff at OUTBAKTech.com Mon Mar 1 23:42:57 2004 From: Jeff at OUTBAKTech.com (Jeff Barrows) Date: Mon, 1 Mar 2004 23:42:57 -0600 Subject: [AccessD] Church Database Message-ID: <8DA8776D2F418E46A2A464AC6CE6305092B9@outbaksrv1.outbaktech.com> Thanks, but that is not what I am looking for. What I am doing is a Membership and Donation app. Jeff Barrows Outbak Technologies, LLC Racine, WI Phone: (262) 634-0653 Mailto: jeff_developer at hotmail.com www.outbaktech.com -----Original Message----- From: Rocky Smolin - Beach Access Software [mailto:bchacc at san.rr.com] Sent: Monday, March 01, 2004 11:22 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Church Database I once did a communion wafer distribution system for the Carmelite nuns on San Diego (a real cloistered monastery in the middle of the city), called CABS (Carmelite Altar Bread System). Very interesting time. I don't think that's what you're after but that's as close as I got. Rocky ----- Original Message ----- From: "Jeff Barrows" To: "AccessD" Sent: Monday, March 01, 2004 8:57 PM Subject: [AccessD] Church Database Hello Group!!! Before I get too involved, I seem to recall someone saying something a while ago about doing some software for a church. If anyone has such an app and are willing to consider sharing it, could you drop me a line? Jeff Barrows Outbak Technologies, LLC Racine, WI Phone: (262) 634-0653 Mailto: jeff_developer at hotmail.com www.outbaktech.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From john at winhaven.net Mon Mar 1 23:56:41 2004 From: john at winhaven.net (John Bartow) Date: Mon, 1 Mar 2004 23:56:41 -0600 Subject: [AccessD] Church Database In-Reply-To: <8DA8776D2F418E46A2A464AC6CE6305092B7@outbaksrv1.outbaktech.com> Message-ID: Hi Jeff, I asked about the issue here a few months ago. I got one response that indicated they had worked on one. I followed up a couple of times with that individual and never got any further responses. There are a couple of established companies that write church apps. PDS and ACS are the two I'm somewhat familiar with. If you're interested in any info for those feel free to contact me. John R. Bartow WinHaven LLC PO Box 130 Winneconne, WI 54986 920-582-7574 john at winhaven.net -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Jeff Barrows Sent: Monday, March 01, 2004 10:57 PM To: AccessD Subject: [AccessD] Church Database Hello Group!!! Before I get too involved, I seem to recall someone saying something a while ago about doing some software for a church. If anyone has such an app and are willing to consider sharing it, could you drop me a line? Jeff Barrows Outbak Technologies, LLC Racine, WI Phone: (262) 634-0653 Mailto: jeff_developer at hotmail.com www.outbaktech.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From handyman at actcom.co.il Tue Mar 2 00:17:11 2004 From: handyman at actcom.co.il (handyman at actcom.co.il) Date: Tue, 02 Mar 2004 08:17:11 +0200 Subject: [AccessD] Church Database In-Reply-To: <8DA8776D2F418E46A2A464AC6CE6305092B7@outbaksrv1.outbaktech .com> Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20040302081631.02ededc8@pop5.actcom.net.il> check this url http://users.adelphia.net/~nchristo23/index.html At 10:57 PM, 3/1/2004 -0600, you wrote: >Hello Group!!! > >Before I get too involved, I seem to recall someone saying something a >while ago about doing some software for a church. If anyone has such an >app and are willing to consider sharing it, could you drop me a line? > >Jeff Barrows > >Outbak Technologies, LLC >Racine, WI >Phone: (262) 634-0653 >Mailto: jeff_developer at hotmail.com >www.outbaktech.com > >-- >_______________________________________________ >AccessD mailing list >AccessD at databaseadvisors.com >http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd >Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com Gershon Markowitz mailto:Handyman at actcom.co.il http://www.yadchaimtzvi.org From accessd667 at yahoo.com Tue Mar 2 01:05:07 2004 From: accessd667 at yahoo.com (S D) Date: Mon, 1 Mar 2004 23:05:07 -0800 (PST) Subject: [AccessD] Create scripts: CreateTable? Message-ID: <20040302070507.73265.qmail@web61106.mail.yahoo.com> Hi group, I need to create about 15 new, very large (25-42 fields) tables. Is it somehow possible to create scripts that generate these tables to migrate these tables to production? Like in SQL-Server? My suggestion was create the tables in Developmennt. Import the tables in the Test environment and then import them into Production. Answer: NO. Why? Just NO. Create scripts that generate the objects and we (third party) run the script. Is there something like it? regards, Sander --------------------------------- Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Search - Find what you?re looking for faster. From deanellis at iprimus.com.au Tue Mar 2 06:26:38 2004 From: deanellis at iprimus.com.au (Dean Ellis) Date: Tue, 2 Mar 2004 22:56:38 +1030 (Cen. Australia Daylight Time) Subject: [AccessD] SQL Error Message-ID: <40447D7E.000005.91631@jedel> Hi All, Can anybody help with the following line of Code. I created the SQL part directly from the query window but I keep getting the error "Expected end of statement at the "WO1" area Me.Combo6.RowSource = "SELECT DISTINCTROW Member.[Regt Number], Member Surname, Member.Rank FROM Member WHERE ((Not(Member.Rank)= "WO1")) ORDER BY Member.Surname;" Basically its a dropdown box that needs to leave out certain record depending on the members rank Any thoughts From R.Griffiths at bury.gov.uk Tue Mar 2 06:37:29 2004 From: R.Griffiths at bury.gov.uk (Griffiths, Richard) Date: Tue, 2 Mar 2004 12:37:29 -0000 Subject: [AccessD] SQL Error Message-ID: Dean Try single quotes around W01 e.g. 'W01' Richard > -----Original Message----- > From: Dean Ellis [SMTP:deanellis at iprimus.com.au] > Sent: 02 March 2004 12:27 > To: AccessD > Subject: [AccessD] SQL Error > > Hi All, > > > > Can anybody help with the following line of Code. I created the SQL part > directly from the query window but I keep getting the error "Expected end > of > statement at the "WO1" area > > > > Me.Combo6.RowSource = "SELECT DISTINCTROW Member.[Regt Number], Member > Surname, Member.Rank FROM Member WHERE ((Not(Member.Rank)= "WO1")) ORDER > BY > Member.Surname;" > > > > > > Basically its a dropdown box that needs to leave out certain record > depending on the members rank > > > > Any thoughts > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com Tue Mar 2 06:43:07 2004 From: jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com (John W. Colby) Date: Tue, 2 Mar 2004 07:43:07 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] word automation not printing Message-ID: Folks, I am using the following code to print an existing document using word automation. If I leave out the msgbox statement the document doesn't print. It's almost as if the close happens before the print manages to get the document out of word and into the print queue. Has anyone seen this? Any suggestions? The "Press any key" solution is unprofessional to say the least. Function PrintWordDoc(strFilePath As String, strFileName As String, intCnt As Integer) As Boolean On Error GoTo Err_PrintWordDoc Dim AppWord As Word.Application Dim lDoc As Word.Document Set AppWord = CreateObject("Word.Application") With AppWord .Visible = True .Documents.Open (strFilePath & strFileName) Set lDoc = .Documents(strFileName) lDoc.PrintOut , , , , , , , intCnt msgbox "Press any key to continue" .Quit savechanges:=False End With PrintWordDoc = True Exit_PrintWordDoc: On Error Resume Next Set lDoc = Nothing Set AppWord = Nothing Exit Function Err_PrintWordDoc: MsgBox Err.Description, , "Error in Sub basMailMerge.PrintWordDoc" Resume Exit_PrintWordDoc Resume 0 '.FOR TROUBLESHOOTING End Function John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com From accessd667 at yahoo.com Tue Mar 2 06:53:01 2004 From: accessd667 at yahoo.com (S D) Date: Tue, 2 Mar 2004 04:53:01 -0800 (PST) Subject: [AccessD] Add tab control to tab control? Message-ID: <20040302125301.84725.qmail@web61105.mail.yahoo.com> Hi group I want to place a tab control on a tab control. Is this possible? eg: "parent tab control" has 2 pages called: parentpage1 and parentpage2. I want to create another tab control on parentpage2. TIA Regards, Sander --------------------------------- Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Search - Find what you?re looking for faster. From JRojas at tnco-inc.com Tue Mar 2 07:08:03 2004 From: JRojas at tnco-inc.com (Joe Rojas) Date: Tue, 2 Mar 2004 08:08:03 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] SQL Error Message-ID: <806536912C472E4A9D6515DF2E57261E2396F9@mercury.tnco-inc.com> Wouldn't the WHERE clause read as: WHERE (Not(Member.Rank = "WO1")) JR -----Original Message----- From: Dean Ellis [mailto:deanellis at iprimus.com.au] Sent: Tuesday, March 02, 2004 7:27 AM To: AccessD Subject: [AccessD] SQL Error Hi All, Can anybody help with the following line of Code. I created the SQL part directly from the query window but I keep getting the error "Expected end of statement at the "WO1" area Me.Combo6.RowSource = "SELECT DISTINCTROW Member.[Regt Number], Member Surname, Member.Rank FROM Member WHERE ((Not(Member.Rank)= "WO1")) ORDER BY Member.Surname;" Basically its a dropdown box that needs to leave out certain record depending on the members rank Any thoughts -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com This electronic transmission is strictly confidential to TNCO, Inc. and intended solely for the addressee. It may contain information which is covered by legal, professional, or other privileges. If you are not the intended addressee, or someone authorized by the intended addressee to receive transmissions on behalf of the addressee, you must not retain, disclose in any form, copy, or take any action in reliance on this transmission. If you have received this transmission in error, please notify the sender as soon as possible and destroy this message. While TNCO, Inc. uses virus protection, the recipient should check this email and any attachments for the presence of viruses. TNCO, Inc. accepts no liability for any damage caused by any virus transmitted by this email. From accessd667 at yahoo.com Tue Mar 2 07:20:46 2004 From: accessd667 at yahoo.com (S D) Date: Tue, 2 Mar 2004 05:20:46 -0800 (PST) Subject: [AccessD] word automation not printing In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <20040302132046.53697.qmail@web61104.mail.yahoo.com> you could try a timer event...wait a couple of seconds before quiting... Isn't it possible to use a doevents thingy? HTH Sander "John W. Colby" wrote: Folks, I am using the following code to print an existing document using word automation. If I leave out the msgbox statement the document doesn't print. It's almost as if the close happens before the print manages to get the document out of word and into the print queue. Has anyone seen this? Any suggestions? The "Press any key" solution is unprofessional to say the least. Function PrintWordDoc(strFilePath As String, strFileName As String, intCnt As Integer) As Boolean On Error GoTo Err_PrintWordDoc Dim AppWord As Word.Application Dim lDoc As Word.Document Set AppWord = CreateObject("Word.Application") With AppWord .Visible = True .Documents.Open (strFilePath & strFileName) Set lDoc = .Documents(strFileName) lDoc.PrintOut , , , , , , , intCnt msgbox "Press any key to continue" .Quit savechanges:=False End With PrintWordDoc = True Exit_PrintWordDoc: On Error Resume Next Set lDoc = Nothing Set AppWord = Nothing Exit Function Err_PrintWordDoc: MsgBox Err.Description, , "Error in Sub basMailMerge.PrintWordDoc" Resume Exit_PrintWordDoc Resume 0 '.FOR TROUBLESHOOTING End Function John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com --------------------------------- Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Search - Find what you?re looking for faster. From paul.hartland at fsmail.net Tue Mar 2 07:27:36 2004 From: paul.hartland at fsmail.net (paul.hartland at fsmail.net) Date: Tue, 2 Mar 2004 14:27:36 +0100 (CET) Subject: [AccessD] Add tab control to tab control? Message-ID: <12741325.1078234056352.JavaMail.www@wwinf3004> Sander, Unless anyone comes up with a better solution, the only way I know how to do this is to put your 2nd tab control inside the first and make it invisible, then when the 2nd tab is clicked make tab control 2 visible, when they click off it make it invisible again etc. If you get a better solution that I don't see on the list, I would like to know how it is done. Paul Message date : Mar 02 2004, 01:17 PM >From : "S D" To : "accessd" Copy to : Subject : [AccessD] Add tab control to tab control? Hi group I want to place a tab control on a tab control. Is this possible? eg: "parent tab control" has 2 pages called: parentpage1 and parentpage2. I want to create another tab control on parentpage2. TIA Regards, Sander --------------------------------- Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Search - Find what you?re looking for faster. -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com Freeserve AnyTime - HALF PRICE for the first 3 months - Save ?7.50 a month www.freeserve.com/anytime From jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com Tue Mar 2 07:33:15 2004 From: jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com (John W. Colby) Date: Tue, 2 Mar 2004 08:33:15 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Add tab control to tab control? In-Reply-To: <20040302125301.84725.qmail@web61105.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: Yes, that is possible. Just select tab 2 and drag and drop a new tab control on it. John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of S D Sent: Tuesday, March 02, 2004 7:53 AM To: accessd Subject: [AccessD] Add tab control to tab control? Hi group I want to place a tab control on a tab control. Is this possible? eg: "parent tab control" has 2 pages called: parentpage1 and parentpage2. I want to create another tab control on parentpage2. TIA Regards, Sander --------------------------------- Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Search - Find what youre looking for faster. -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com Tue Mar 2 07:33:15 2004 From: jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com (John W. Colby) Date: Tue, 2 Mar 2004 08:33:15 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] word automation not printing In-Reply-To: <20040302132046.53697.qmail@web61104.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: A DoEvents thingie? Getting kinda technical aren't you? ;-) John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of S D Sent: Tuesday, March 02, 2004 8:21 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] word automation not printing you could try a timer event...wait a couple of seconds before quiting... Isn't it possible to use a doevents thingy? HTH Sander "John W. Colby" wrote: Folks, I am using the following code to print an existing document using word automation. If I leave out the msgbox statement the document doesn't print. It's almost as if the close happens before the print manages to get the document out of word and into the print queue. Has anyone seen this? Any suggestions? The "Press any key" solution is unprofessional to say the least. Function PrintWordDoc(strFilePath As String, strFileName As String, intCnt As Integer) As Boolean On Error GoTo Err_PrintWordDoc Dim AppWord As Word.Application Dim lDoc As Word.Document Set AppWord = CreateObject("Word.Application") With AppWord .Visible = True .Documents.Open (strFilePath & strFileName) Set lDoc = .Documents(strFileName) lDoc.PrintOut , , , , , , , intCnt msgbox "Press any key to continue" .Quit savechanges:=False End With PrintWordDoc = True Exit_PrintWordDoc: On Error Resume Next Set lDoc = Nothing Set AppWord = Nothing Exit Function Err_PrintWordDoc: MsgBox Err.Description, , "Error in Sub basMailMerge.PrintWordDoc" Resume Exit_PrintWordDoc Resume 0 '.FOR TROUBLESHOOTING End Function John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com --------------------------------- Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Search - Find what youre looking for faster. -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From Mark.Mitsules at ngc.com Tue Mar 2 07:29:22 2004 From: Mark.Mitsules at ngc.com (Mitsules, Mark S. (Newport News)) Date: Tue, 2 Mar 2004 08:29:22 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Add tab control to tab control? Message-ID: Yes, this is possible...in a subform. I have nested tab controls 3 levels deep. And, a text box control on the third level tab control would still be addressed: [Forms]![frmMain]![sfrmMain]![ssfrmMain]![txtControl] ...no reference to the tab control is necessary. Mark -----Original Message----- From: S D [mailto:accessd667 at yahoo.com] Sent: Tuesday, March 02, 2004 7:53 AM To: accessd Subject: [AccessD] Add tab control to tab control? Hi group I want to place a tab control on a tab control. Is this possible? eg: "parent tab control" has 2 pages called: parentpage1 and parentpage2. I want to create another tab control on parentpage2. TIA Regards, Sander --------------------------------- Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Search - Find what you're looking for faster. -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From Mark.Mitsules at ngc.com Tue Mar 2 07:41:10 2004 From: Mark.Mitsules at ngc.com (Mitsules, Mark S. (Newport News)) Date: Tue, 2 Mar 2004 08:41:10 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] word automation not printing Message-ID: Gustav set me on the right track a few years ago with this problem. ...and I quote "Printing is VERY much faster if background printing is off." See example courtesy of Gustav:) Mark Function PrintDoc(ByVal strFileName As String) As Boolean ' Print Word document from within Access. ' 2000-05-27. Gustav Brock. Cactus Data ApS. ' Example: ? WordDocPrint("C:\Temp\Products.doc") Dim appWord As Word.Application Dim booPrintBackground As Boolean Dim WordDocPrint As Boolean Set appWord = New Word.Application 'Debug.Print "- activated" With appWord .Documents.Open strFileName 'Debug.Print "- opened" ' Store background printing option. booPrintBackground = .Options.PrintBackground If booPrintBackground = True Then ' Printing is VERY much faster if background printing is off. .Options.PrintBackground = False End If .ActiveDocument.PrintOut ' Not needed if background printing option is off. While .BackgroundPrintingStatus > 0 'Debug.Print "- printing" StatusBar = .BackgroundPrintingStatus & " print jobs are queued up" DoEvents Wend ' ----------------------------------------------- 'Debug.Print "- printed" ' Restore background printing option. If booPrintBackground = True Then .Options.PrintBackground = True End If .ActiveDocument.Close 'Debug.Print "- closed" .Quit 'Debug.Print "- quit" End With Set appWord = Nothing WordDocPrint = True End Function -----Original Message----- From: John W. Colby [mailto:jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com] Sent: Tuesday, March 02, 2004 8:33 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] word automation not printing A DoEvents thingie? Getting kinda technical aren't you? ;-) John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of S D Sent: Tuesday, March 02, 2004 8:21 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] word automation not printing you could try a timer event...wait a couple of seconds before quiting... Isn't it possible to use a doevents thingy? HTH Sander "John W. Colby" wrote: Folks, I am using the following code to print an existing document using word automation. If I leave out the msgbox statement the document doesn't print. It's almost as if the close happens before the print manages to get the document out of word and into the print queue. Has anyone seen this? Any suggestions? The "Press any key" solution is unprofessional to say the least. Function PrintWordDoc(strFilePath As String, strFileName As String, intCnt As Integer) As Boolean On Error GoTo Err_PrintWordDoc Dim AppWord As Word.Application Dim lDoc As Word.Document Set AppWord = CreateObject("Word.Application") With AppWord .Visible = True .Documents.Open (strFilePath & strFileName) Set lDoc = .Documents(strFileName) lDoc.PrintOut , , , , , , , intCnt msgbox "Press any key to continue" .Quit savechanges:=False End With PrintWordDoc = True Exit_PrintWordDoc: On Error Resume Next Set lDoc = Nothing Set AppWord = Nothing Exit Function Err_PrintWordDoc: MsgBox Err.Description, , "Error in Sub basMailMerge.PrintWordDoc" Resume Exit_PrintWordDoc Resume 0 '.FOR TROUBLESHOOTING End Function John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com --------------------------------- Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Search - Find what youre looking for faster. -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From bheid at appdevgrp.com Tue Mar 2 07:52:18 2004 From: bheid at appdevgrp.com (Bobby Heid) Date: Tue, 2 Mar 2004 08:52:18 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Archives - no scroll bar In-Reply-To: <916187228923D311A6FE00A0CC3FAA307B76AF@ADGSERVER> Message-ID: <916187228923D311A6FE00A0CC3FAA305BB2AF@ADGSERVER> Hey all, I was searching the archives for something and it had a lot of hits. But since there was no scroll bar, I had to press the tab key to move to each entry. I could not page down or use the mouse wheel either. This is in IE 6.0.28, windows 2k. Is this by design? Thanks, Bobby From tinanfields at torchlake.com Tue Mar 2 07:56:39 2004 From: tinanfields at torchlake.com (Tina Norris Fields) Date: Tue, 02 Mar 2004 08:56:39 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Church Database References: <8DA8776D2F418E46A2A464AC6CE6305092B7@outbaksrv1.outbaktech.com> Message-ID: <40449297.8020101@torchlake.com> Hi Jeff, We considered creating our own database app for our church because we wer unsatisfied with the one we had purchased. However, over time that product has been improved considerably. We are still using it. It is called PowerChurch+8. It is a FoxPro-based app. The tables are easily imported into Access. Now, any time I want some special report that PowerChurch+8 doesn't offer, I just grab the information I want and use Access to manipulate it. HTH Tina Jeff Barrows wrote: >Hello Group!!! > >Before I get too involved, I seem to recall someone saying something a >while ago about doing some software for a church. If anyone has such an >app and are willing to consider sharing it, could you drop me a line? > >Jeff Barrows > >Outbak Technologies, LLC >Racine, WI >Phone: (262) 634-0653 >Mailto: jeff_developer at hotmail.com >www.outbaktech.com > > > From JohnSkolits at CorporateDataDesign.com Tue Mar 2 08:33:14 2004 From: JohnSkolits at CorporateDataDesign.com (John Skolits) Date: Tue, 2 Mar 2004 09:33:14 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Looking for Calander App that would interact with Access In-Reply-To: <40449297.8020101@torchlake.com> Message-ID: <006e01c40063$4bdc0810$0f01a8c0@cddserver2> Anyone see a good Calendar App that allows people to schedule information for a particular customer and link that customer to an Access database. In this way, a dispatcher can use the calendar to schedule appointments and then print customer database info for a repair person before they go to the customers location. Thanks, John Skolits From gustav at cactus.dk Tue Mar 2 08:33:11 2004 From: gustav at cactus.dk (Gustav Brock) Date: Tue, 2 Mar 2004 15:33:11 +0100 Subject: [AccessD] word automation not printing In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <1175921094.20040302153311@cactus.dk> Hi John You may choose to print the document in the background: Function WordDocPrint( _ ByVal strFilename As String, _ Optional ByVal booPrintBackGround As Boolean = False) _ As Boolean ' Print Word document from within Access. ' 2000-05-27. Gustav Brock. Cactus Data ApS. ' 2000-09-10. Modified with option for background printing. ' Example: ? WordDocPrint("C:\Programmer\Microsoft Office 97\Office\Eksempler\produkter.doc") Dim appWord As Word.Application Dim booSuccess As Boolean Set appWord = New Word.Application Debug.Print "- activated" With appWord If Len(Dir(strFilename)) > 0 Then ' Open document strFilename read-only. .Documents.Open strFilename, , True Debug.Print "- opened" .ActiveDocument.PrintOut booPrintBackGround While .BackgroundPrintingStatus > 0 Debug.Print "- printing" DoEvents Wend Debug.Print "- printed" .ActiveDocument.Close Debug.Print "- closed" booSuccess = True End If .Quit Debug.Print "- quit" End With Set appWord = Nothing WordDocPrint = booSuccess End Function /gustav > I am using the following code to print an existing document using word > automation. If I leave out the msgbox statement the document doesn't print. > It's almost as if the close happens before the print manages to get the > document out of word and into the print queue. Has anyone seen this? Any > suggestions? The "Press any key" solution is unprofessional to say the > least. > Function PrintWordDoc(strFilePath As String, strFileName As String, intCnt > As Integer) As Boolean > On Error GoTo Err_PrintWordDoc > Dim AppWord As Word.Application > Dim lDoc As Word.Document > Set AppWord = CreateObject("Word.Application") > With AppWord > .Visible = True > .Documents.Open (strFilePath & strFileName) > Set lDoc = .Documents(strFileName) > lDoc.PrintOut , , , , , , , intCnt > msgbox "Press any key to continue" > .Quit savechanges:=False > End With > PrintWordDoc = True > Exit_PrintWordDoc: > On Error Resume Next > Set lDoc = Nothing > Set AppWord = Nothing > Exit Function > Err_PrintWordDoc: > MsgBox Err.Description, , "Error in Sub basMailMerge.PrintWordDoc" > Resume Exit_PrintWordDoc > Resume 0 '.FOR TROUBLESHOOTING > End Function From chizotz at charter.net Tue Mar 2 08:43:13 2004 From: chizotz at charter.net (chizotz at charter.net) Date: Tue, 2 Mar 2004 8:43:13 -0600 Subject: [AccessD] Acc97: report groups not staying together Message-ID: <200403021443.i22EhD5L083178@mxsf09.cluster1.charter.net> Hi all, I have a report that has a group with group totals in the group footer. I can't seem to keep the groups from breaking over to a new page. What I want is for the group totals to always print on the same page as the last line of the details for that iteration of the group. Seems like it should be simple enough, but playing with the "keep together" settings doesn't seem to have any effect. I think I remember that there was a trick to this, but I don't recall what it is. Any suggestions appreciated. Ron From Mark.Mitsules at ngc.com Tue Mar 2 08:38:51 2004 From: Mark.Mitsules at ngc.com (Mitsules, Mark S. (Newport News)) Date: Tue, 2 Mar 2004 09:38:51 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] word automation not printing Message-ID: ...hmmm:( Are my posts not making it to the list? I posted a similar example from you over an hour ago;) Mark -----Original Message----- From: Gustav Brock [mailto:gustav at cactus.dk] Sent: Tuesday, March 02, 2004 9:33 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] word automation not printing Hi John You may choose to print the document in the background: Function WordDocPrint( _ ByVal strFilename As String, _ Optional ByVal booPrintBackGround As Boolean = False) _ As Boolean ' Print Word document from within Access. ' 2000-05-27. Gustav Brock. Cactus Data ApS. ' 2000-09-10. Modified with option for background printing. ' Example: ? WordDocPrint("C:\Programmer\Microsoft Office 97\Office\Eksempler\produkter.doc") Dim appWord As Word.Application Dim booSuccess As Boolean Set appWord = New Word.Application Debug.Print "- activated" With appWord If Len(Dir(strFilename)) > 0 Then ' Open document strFilename read-only. .Documents.Open strFilename, , True Debug.Print "- opened" .ActiveDocument.PrintOut booPrintBackGround While .BackgroundPrintingStatus > 0 Debug.Print "- printing" DoEvents Wend Debug.Print "- printed" .ActiveDocument.Close Debug.Print "- closed" booSuccess = True End If .Quit Debug.Print "- quit" End With Set appWord = Nothing WordDocPrint = booSuccess End Function /gustav > I am using the following code to print an existing document using word > automation. If I leave out the msgbox statement the document doesn't > print. It's almost as if the close happens before the print manages to > get the document out of word and into the print queue. Has anyone > seen this? Any suggestions? The "Press any key" solution is > unprofessional to say the least. > Function PrintWordDoc(strFilePath As String, strFileName As String, > intCnt As Integer) As Boolean On Error GoTo Err_PrintWordDoc > Dim AppWord As Word.Application > Dim lDoc As Word.Document > Set AppWord = CreateObject("Word.Application") > With AppWord > .Visible = True > .Documents.Open (strFilePath & strFileName) > Set lDoc = .Documents(strFileName) > lDoc.PrintOut , , , , , , , intCnt > msgbox "Press any key to continue" > .Quit savechanges:=False > End With > PrintWordDoc = True > Exit_PrintWordDoc: > On Error Resume Next > Set lDoc = Nothing > Set AppWord = Nothing > Exit Function > Err_PrintWordDoc: > MsgBox Err.Description, , "Error in Sub basMailMerge.PrintWordDoc" > Resume Exit_PrintWordDoc > Resume 0 '.FOR TROUBLESHOOTING > End Function -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From jdolby at GATELY.COM Tue Mar 2 08:49:32 2004 From: jdolby at GATELY.COM (Jack Dolby) Date: Tue, 2 Mar 2004 09:49:32 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] word automation not printing Message-ID: <84C3AB1A3A24D311BC9100500410A17E0188D85C@GATELY01> Made it here, Mark... but I'm just across town. Jack Dolby Gately Communication Company -----Original Message----- From: Mitsules, Mark S. (Newport News) [mailto:Mark.Mitsules at ngc.com] Sent: Tuesday, March 02, 2004 9:39 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: [AccessD] word automation not printing ...hmmm:( Are my posts not making it to the list? I posted a similar example from you over an hour ago;) Mark -----Original Message----- From: Gustav Brock [mailto:gustav at cactus.dk] Sent: Tuesday, March 02, 2004 9:33 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] word automation not printing Hi John You may choose to print the document in the background: Function WordDocPrint( _ ByVal strFilename As String, _ Optional ByVal booPrintBackGround As Boolean = False) _ As Boolean ' Print Word document from within Access. ' 2000-05-27. Gustav Brock. Cactus Data ApS. ' 2000-09-10. Modified with option for background printing. ' Example: ? WordDocPrint("C:\Programmer\Microsoft Office 97\Office\Eksempler\produkter.doc") Dim appWord As Word.Application Dim booSuccess As Boolean Set appWord = New Word.Application Debug.Print "- activated" With appWord If Len(Dir(strFilename)) > 0 Then ' Open document strFilename read-only. .Documents.Open strFilename, , True Debug.Print "- opened" .ActiveDocument.PrintOut booPrintBackGround While .BackgroundPrintingStatus > 0 Debug.Print "- printing" DoEvents Wend Debug.Print "- printed" .ActiveDocument.Close Debug.Print "- closed" booSuccess = True End If .Quit Debug.Print "- quit" End With Set appWord = Nothing WordDocPrint = booSuccess End Function /gustav > I am using the following code to print an existing document using word > automation. If I leave out the msgbox statement the document doesn't > print. It's almost as if the close happens before the print manages to > get the document out of word and into the print queue. Has anyone > seen this? Any suggestions? The "Press any key" solution is > unprofessional to say the least. > Function PrintWordDoc(strFilePath As String, strFileName As String, > intCnt As Integer) As Boolean On Error GoTo Err_PrintWordDoc > Dim AppWord As Word.Application > Dim lDoc As Word.Document > Set AppWord = CreateObject("Word.Application") > With AppWord > .Visible = True > .Documents.Open (strFilePath & strFileName) > Set lDoc = .Documents(strFileName) > lDoc.PrintOut , , , , , , , intCnt > msgbox "Press any key to continue" > .Quit savechanges:=False > End With > PrintWordDoc = True > Exit_PrintWordDoc: > On Error Resume Next > Set lDoc = Nothing > Set AppWord = Nothing > Exit Function > Err_PrintWordDoc: > MsgBox Err.Description, , "Error in Sub basMailMerge.PrintWordDoc" > Resume Exit_PrintWordDoc > Resume 0 '.FOR TROUBLESHOOTING > End Function -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From gustav at cactus.dk Tue Mar 2 09:01:16 2004 From: gustav at cactus.dk (Gustav Brock) Date: Tue, 2 Mar 2004 16:01:16 +0100 Subject: [AccessD] word automation not printing In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <767605826.20040302160116@cactus.dk> Hi Mark This did but else ... /gustav > ...hmmm:( Are my posts not making it to the list? I posted a similar > example from you over an hour ago;) > Mark From Jdemarco at hudsonhealthplan.org Tue Mar 2 09:01:16 2004 From: Jdemarco at hudsonhealthplan.org (Jim DeMarco) Date: Tue, 2 Mar 2004 10:01:16 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] A2K MDE Runtime Reference problem - URGENT Message-ID: <22F1CCD5171D17419CB37FEEE09D5F990173FDED@TTNEXCHSRV1.hshhp.com> Rocky, They don't have the correct version of Access installed (at the win98 location). I found what I think is the offending reference (to a file named cnfgprt.ocx). We're going to remove it then recompile the app and see if it runs. I think that ocx is some NT service pack file but why it's referenced here is a mystery. Jim DeMarco -----Original Message----- From: Rocky Smolin - Beach Access Software [mailto:bchacc at san.rr.com] Sent: Monday, March 01, 2004 1:28 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] A2K MDE Runtime Reference problem - URGENT Jim: If they can load Access on that machine, you could send them a stripped down version of the app as an mdb and it should blow dumping them into the code window. From there you could walk them through displaying the references to see which one is broken and the do a search on it, copying it to the expected directory. Rocky ----- Original Message ----- From: "Gustav Brock" To: "Access Developers discussion and problem solving" Sent: Monday, March 01, 2004 9:36 AM Subject: Re: [AccessD] A2K MDE Runtime Reference problem - URGENT > Hi Jim > > > Yes I did. I'll check to see if they did. I just did a win98 > > install got the #name? error which is good in that at least I've got > > a platform to test against. > > I forgot, at Win 98 it can't be an admin rights' issue. > > Then it's probably because a reference exists on Win 98 but of a lower > version than that on your development machine. Access is not very keen > to accept a lower version of a reference. > Either install the newer version of the reference on Win 98 or compile > your app with the lower version of the reference. > > /gustav > > > > Maybe your client installed it without Administrator rights - which > > you probably did? > > > /gustav > > > >> I just installed on an XP system here and the app worked. Some read-only issues that I believe relate to security on the machine I was on but the date functions all worked. > > >> I seem to recall some code in the archives that set references. I'll take a look there and see what comes up. > > >> Thanks again, > > >> Jim D. > > >> -----Original Message----- > >> From: Gustav Brock [mailto:gustav at cactus.dk] > >> Sent: Monday, March 01, 2004 9:32 AM > >> To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > >> Subject: Re: [AccessD] A2K MDE Runtime Reference problem - URGENT > > > >> Hi Jim > > >> The Date fields are the symptom only. > >> The cure is to locate and reestablish one or more missing reference. > > >> Access will - and is quite good at it but not perfect - try to locate > >> any missing reference in the current environment, thus adjusting the > >> path for each of these references. > >> Maybe Access succeeded when the MDE was moved to your platform > >> (Win2000 and C:\WINNT) but failed when it moved "back" (Win 9x/XP and > >> C:\Windows) at the clients. > > >> /gustav > > >>> The real mystery is that we have not changed or added any references. It just seems the date fields that have the problem. > > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From gustav at cactus.dk Tue Mar 2 09:01:54 2004 From: gustav at cactus.dk (Gustav Brock) Date: Tue, 2 Mar 2004 16:01:54 +0100 Subject: [AccessD] Acc97: report groups not staying together In-Reply-To: <200403021443.i22EhD5L083178@mxsf09.cluster1.charter.net> References: <200403021443.i22EhD5L083178@mxsf09.cluster1.charter.net> Message-ID: <347644632.20040302160154@cactus.dk> Hi chizotz Did you play with Sorting and Grouping from the menubar? Choosing Keep together: Whole group should do the trick. /gustav > I have a report that has a group with group totals in the group footer. I can't seem to keep the groups from breaking over to a new page. What I want is for the group totals to always print on the > same page as the last line of the details for that iteration of the group. > Seems like it should be simple enough, but playing with the "keep together" settings doesn't seem to have any effect. I think I remember that there was a trick to this, but I don't recall what it > is. From Bryan_Carbonnell at cbc.ca Tue Mar 2 08:52:56 2004 From: Bryan_Carbonnell at cbc.ca (Bryan Carbonnell) Date: Tue, 02 Mar 2004 09:52:56 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Append Query Not Appending Message-ID: I have created an append query that is basically moving data from one table to a similarly structured table, minus a few fields in the new table. When I run the query, I get most of the records transfered, but not all of them. I have tried to manually add a few of the records and that works. I'll be d*mned if I can figure out why the append query won't work. Any ideas? BTW, here is the SQL that is almost working :) INSERT INTO tblFault ( FaultID, FaultDate, FaultTime, FaultProgram_FK, FaultLocation_FK, FaultLocationDescription, FaultReason_FK, FaultReasonDescription, FaultDescription, FaultPerson_Fk ) SELECT Fault.ID, Fault.Shift_Date, Fault.Time, Fault.Prog, Fault.Loc, Fault.Loc_Desc, Fault.Reason, Fault.Res_Sub, Fault.Description, Fault.Resource FROM Fault ANy ideas will be greatly appreciated. Bryan Carbonnell bryan_carbonnell at cbc.ca From Patricia.O'Connor at DFA.STATE.NY.US Tue Mar 2 09:29:52 2004 From: Patricia.O'Connor at DFA.STATE.NY.US (O'Connor, Patricia ) Date: Tue, 2 Mar 2004 10:29:52 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Union the transform queris ? Message-ID: oleg/Jim Leave the UnION ALL in but take out the second union before the SELECT "Pre Investigation Opened" AS Status and it will work. Thanks Jim - this is good to know will go into my code archive Patti > -----Original Message----- > From: Jim Lawrence (AccessD) [mailto:accessd at shaw.ca] > Sent: Monday, March 01, 2004 08:19 PM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: RE: [AccessD] Union the transform queris ? > > > Hi Oleg: > > With just a quick look the code below should work. This > assumes that the > data brought back from each TRANSFORM section is identical in > field count > and type. Just needs closed curved brackets around each section and > appropriate Union type clause in between. > > HTH > Jim > > ... > (TRANSFORM Count([Ron Data spr].[ID]) AS Total > SELECT "Closed without Investigation" AS Status > FROM [Ron Data spr] > WHERE ([Ron Data spr].[Preliminary Investigation Closed] >= > [Forms]![Report Form]![Start_Date]) And ([Ron Data spr].[Preliminary > Investigation Closed]<=[Forms]![Report Form]![End_Date]) and > ([Preliminary > Investigation closed] is not null and [Investigation Opened] is null) > GROUP BY "Closed without Investigation" > PIVOT Format([Preliminary Investigation Closed],"mmm") In > ("Jan","Feb","Mar","Apr","May","Jun","Jul","Aug","Sep","Oct"," > Nov","Dec")) > UNION ALL > (TRANSFORM Count([Ron Data spr].[ID]) AS Total > Union SELECT "Pre Investigation Opened" AS Status > FROM [Ron Data spr] > WHERE ([Ron Data spr].[Preliminary Investigation Opened] >= > [Forms]![Report Form]![Start_Date]) And ([Ron Data spr].[Preliminary > Investigation Opened]<=[Forms]![Report Form]![End_Date]) and > [Preliminary > Investigation Opened] is not null > GROUP BY "Pre Investigation Opened" > PIVOT Format([Preliminary Investigation Opened],"mmm") In > ("Jan","Feb","Mar","Apr","May","Jun","Jul","Aug","Sep","Oct"," > Nov","Dec")) > ... > > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > From rl_stewart at highstream.net Tue Mar 2 09:37:27 2004 From: rl_stewart at highstream.net (Robert L. Stewart) Date: Tue, 02 Mar 2004 09:37:27 -0600 Subject: [AccessD] Re: Add tab control to tab control? In-Reply-To: <200403021449.i22En2M10660@databaseadvisors.com> Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20040302093639.0294f1e0@pop3.highstream.net> Sander, Actually, you can do it without making it invisible, but it has to be on a subform. Robert At 08:49 AM 3/2/2004 -0600, you wrote: >Date: Tue, 2 Mar 2004 14:27:36 +0100 (CET) >From: paul.hartland at fsmail.net >Subject: Re: [AccessD] Add tab control to tab control? >To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > >Message-ID: <12741325.1078234056352.JavaMail.www at wwinf3004> >Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 > >Sander, >Unless anyone comes up with a better solution, the only way I know how to >do this is to put your 2nd tab control inside the first and make it >invisible, then when the 2nd tab is clicked make tab control 2 visible, >when they click off it make it invisible again etc. >If you get a better solution that I don't see on the list, I would like to >know how it is done. >Paul > > > > > >Message date : Mar 02 2004, 01:17 PM > >From : "S D" >To : "accessd" >Copy to : >Subject : [AccessD] Add tab control to tab control? >Hi group > >I want to place a tab control on a tab control. Is this possible? > >eg: >"parent tab control" has 2 pages called: parentpage1 and parentpage2. >I want to create another tab control on parentpage2. > >TIA > >Regards, > >Sander From Developer at UltraDNT.com Tue Mar 2 09:40:58 2004 From: Developer at UltraDNT.com (Developer) Date: Tue, 2 Mar 2004 10:40:58 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Create scripts: CreateTable? In-Reply-To: <20040302070507.73265.qmail@web61106.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <000501c4006c$c5294260$7001a8c0@COA3> There is absolutely something like it, in MS-SQL 7.0 or 2000 (it's likely in 6.5 too, I just don't remember). In Enterprise Manager (2000), you right click on the development database, then "All Tasks", "Generate SQL Script...". Select any objects you want scripted (including sp's, views, etc.) and EM will generate a text file you can run in Query Analyzer on the production server. I use this all the time to develop one server and deploy on another. If you are quicker at Access tables, you may want to do your tables there, use the SQL upsize wizard, then generate the script (watch for data-type conversion quirks, however, going from Access to SQL with the wizard). Books Online will give all the details for script generation. Hth Steve -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of S D Sent: Tuesday, March 02, 2004 2:05 AM To: accessd Subject: [AccessD] Create scripts: CreateTable? Hi group, I need to create about 15 new, very large (25-42 fields) tables. Is it somehow possible to create scripts that generate these tables to migrate these tables to production? Like in SQL-Server? My suggestion was create the tables in Developmennt. Import the tables in the Test environment and then import them into Production. Answer: NO. Why? Just NO. Create scripts that generate the objects and we (third party) run the script. Is there something like it? regards, Sander --------------------------------- Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Search - Find what you're looking for faster. -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From bchacc at san.rr.com Tue Mar 2 09:39:20 2004 From: bchacc at san.rr.com (Rocky Smolin - Beach Access Software) Date: Tue, 2 Mar 2004 07:39:20 -0800 Subject: [AccessD] A2K MDE Runtime Reference problem - URGENT References: <22F1CCD5171D17419CB37FEEE09D5F990173FDED@TTNEXCHSRV1.hshhp.com> Message-ID: <005701c4006c$88076330$6801a8c0@HAL9002> Jim: I've had extra references creep into my apps and I don't know where they came from. So now, from time to time, if I can remember, I check the references at random to see what's there. Rocky ----- Original Message ----- From: "Jim DeMarco" To: "Access Developers discussion and problem solving" Sent: Tuesday, March 02, 2004 7:01 AM Subject: RE: [AccessD] A2K MDE Runtime Reference problem - URGENT > Rocky, > > They don't have the correct version of Access installed (at the win98 location). I found what I think is the offending reference (to a file named cnfgprt.ocx). We're going to remove it then recompile the app and see if it runs. I think that ocx is some NT service pack file but why it's referenced here is a mystery. > > Jim DeMarco > > -----Original Message----- > From: Rocky Smolin - Beach Access Software [mailto:bchacc at san.rr.com] > Sent: Monday, March 01, 2004 1:28 PM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: Re: [AccessD] A2K MDE Runtime Reference problem - URGENT > > > Jim: > > If they can load Access on that machine, you could send them a stripped down > version of the app as an mdb and it should blow dumping them into the code > window. From there you could walk them through displaying the references to > see which one is broken and the do a search on it, copying it to the > expected directory. > > Rocky > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Gustav Brock" > To: "Access Developers discussion and problem solving" > > Sent: Monday, March 01, 2004 9:36 AM > Subject: Re: [AccessD] A2K MDE Runtime Reference problem - URGENT > > > > Hi Jim > > > > > Yes I did. I'll check to see if they did. I just did a win98 > > > install got the #name? error which is good in that at least I've got > > > a platform to test against. > > > > I forgot, at Win 98 it can't be an admin rights' issue. > > > > Then it's probably because a reference exists on Win 98 but of a lower > > version than that on your development machine. Access is not very keen > > to accept a lower version of a reference. > > Either install the newer version of the reference on Win 98 or compile > > your app with the lower version of the reference. > > > > /gustav > > > > > > > Maybe your client installed it without Administrator rights - which > > > you probably did? > > > > > /gustav > > > > > > >> I just installed on an XP system here and the app worked. Some > read-only issues that I believe relate to security on the machine I was on > but the date functions all worked. > > > > >> I seem to recall some code in the archives that set references. I'll > take a look there and see what comes up. > > > > >> Thanks again, > > > > >> Jim D. > > > > >> -----Original Message----- > > >> From: Gustav Brock [mailto:gustav at cactus.dk] > > >> Sent: Monday, March 01, 2004 9:32 AM > > >> To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > > >> Subject: Re: [AccessD] A2K MDE Runtime Reference problem - URGENT > > > > > > >> Hi Jim > > > > >> The Date fields are the symptom only. > > >> The cure is to locate and reestablish one or more missing reference. > > > > >> Access will - and is quite good at it but not perfect - try to locate > > >> any missing reference in the current environment, thus adjusting the > > >> path for each of these references. > > >> Maybe Access succeeded when the MDE was moved to your platform > > >> (Win2000 and C:\WINNT) but failed when it moved "back" (Win 9x/XP and > > >> C:\Windows) at the clients. > > > > >> /gustav > > > > >>> The real mystery is that we have not changed or added any references. > It just seems the date fields that have the problem. > > > > -- > > _______________________________________________ > > AccessD mailing list > > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > From Bryan_Carbonnell at cbc.ca Tue Mar 2 09:36:41 2004 From: Bryan_Carbonnell at cbc.ca (Bryan Carbonnell) Date: Tue, 02 Mar 2004 10:36:41 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Append Query Not Appending Message-ID: Never mind. I think that the send button actually turns brains on. It turns out that I had two fields that I forgot to allow nulls in. Thanks for reading Bryan Carbonnell bryan_carbonnell at cbc.ca >>> Bryan_Carbonnell at cbc.ca 02-Mar-04 9:52:56 AM >>> I have created an append query that is basically moving data from one table to a similarly structured table, minus a few fields in the new table. When I run the query, I get most of the records transfered, but not all of them. I have tried to manually add a few of the records and that works. I'll be d*mned if I can figure out why the append query won't work. Any ideas? BTW, here is the SQL that is almost working :) From ranthony at wrsystems.com Tue Mar 2 09:41:53 2004 From: ranthony at wrsystems.com (Randall Anthony) Date: Tue, 2 Mar 2004 10:41:53 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Append Query Not Appending Message-ID: <5F21A4E8B8DD734992EF9E70AC9D3064128ABB@mail2.wrsystems.com> Set your code to Docmd.setwarnings true, and see if you're getting an error message on key violations. -----Original Message----- From: Bryan Carbonnell [mailto:Bryan_Carbonnell at cbc.ca] Sent: Tuesday, March 02, 2004 9:53 AM To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: [AccessD] Append Query Not Appending I have created an append query that is basically moving data from one table to a similarly structured table, minus a few fields in the new table. When I run the query, I get most of the records transfered, but not all of them. I have tried to manually add a few of the records and that works. I'll be d*mned if I can figure out why the append query won't work. Any ideas? BTW, here is the SQL that is almost working :) INSERT INTO tblFault ( FaultID, FaultDate, FaultTime, FaultProgram_FK, FaultLocation_FK, FaultLocationDescription, FaultReason_FK, FaultReasonDescription, FaultDescription, FaultPerson_Fk ) SELECT Fault.ID, Fault.Shift_Date, Fault.Time, Fault.Prog, Fault.Loc, Fault.Loc_Desc, Fault.Reason, Fault.Res_Sub, Fault.Description, Fault.Resource FROM Fault ANy ideas will be greatly appreciated. Bryan Carbonnell bryan_carbonnell at cbc.ca -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From rl_stewart at highstream.net Tue Mar 2 09:44:23 2004 From: rl_stewart at highstream.net (Robert L. Stewart) Date: Tue, 02 Mar 2004 09:44:23 -0600 Subject: [AccessD] Re: Create scripts: CreateTable? In-Reply-To: <200403021449.i22En2M10660@databaseadvisors.com> Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20040302094037.0294b1e8@pop3.highstream.net> Sander, No, there is not something like this. You will need to write it yourself. Not sure who your YAHOOS are, but if they are that gun-hoo, they should be using something like Source Safe to store the different versions. Source safe, I think, will store the table structure for you. And then it can be promoted from inside source safe to production. Robert At 08:49 AM 3/2/2004 -0600, you wrote: >Date: Mon, 1 Mar 2004 23:05:07 -0800 (PST) >From: S D >Subject: [AccessD] Create scripts: CreateTable? >To: accessd >Message-ID: <20040302070507.73265.qmail at web61106.mail.yahoo.com> >Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii > >Hi group, > >I need to create about 15 new, very large (25-42 fields) tables. Is it >somehow possible to create scripts that generate these tables to migrate >these tables to production? Like in SQL-Server? > >My suggestion was create the tables in Developmennt. Import the tables in >the Test environment and then import them into Production. Answer: NO. >Why? Just NO. Create scripts that generate the objects and we (third >party) run the script. > >Is there something like it? > >regards, > >Sander From ranthony at wrsystems.com Tue Mar 2 09:47:40 2004 From: ranthony at wrsystems.com (Randall Anthony) Date: Tue, 2 Mar 2004 10:47:40 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Append Query Not Appending Message-ID: <5F21A4E8B8DD734992EF9E70AC9D3064128ABC@mail2.wrsystems.com> I hate when that happens... :) -----Original Message----- From: Bryan Carbonnell [mailto:Bryan_Carbonnell at cbc.ca] Sent: Tuesday, March 02, 2004 10:37 AM To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: Re: [AccessD] Append Query Not Appending Never mind. I think that the send button actually turns brains on. It turns out that I had two fields that I forgot to allow nulls in. Thanks for reading Bryan Carbonnell bryan_carbonnell at cbc.ca >>> Bryan_Carbonnell at cbc.ca 02-Mar-04 9:52:56 AM >>> I have created an append query that is basically moving data from one table to a similarly structured table, minus a few fields in the new table. When I run the query, I get most of the records transfered, but not all of them. I have tried to manually add a few of the records and that works. I'll be d*mned if I can figure out why the append query won't work. Any ideas? BTW, here is the SQL that is almost working :) -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From Bryan_Carbonnell at cbc.ca Tue Mar 2 09:51:36 2004 From: Bryan_Carbonnell at cbc.ca (Bryan Carbonnell) Date: Tue, 02 Mar 2004 10:51:36 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Append Query Not Appending Message-ID: Yea, me too :) Bryan >>> ranthony at wrsystems.com 02-Mar-04 10:47:40 AM >>> I hate when that happens... :) -----Original Message----- From: Bryan Carbonnell [mailto:Bryan_Carbonnell at cbc.ca] Sent: Tuesday, March 02, 2004 10:37 AM To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: Re: [AccessD] Append Query Not Appending Never mind. I think that the send button actually turns brains on. It turns out that I had two fields that I forgot to allow nulls in. From rl_stewart at highstream.net Tue Mar 2 09:58:34 2004 From: rl_stewart at highstream.net (Robert L. Stewart) Date: Tue, 02 Mar 2004 09:58:34 -0600 Subject: [AccessD] Re: Create scripts: CreateTable? In-Reply-To: <200403021449.i22En2M10660@databaseadvisors.com> Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20040302095517.02922ee0@pop3.highstream.net> Sander, Here is a little code to get you started. Sub GetTableStructure(ByVal strTableName As String) ' Get the Table structure of a table Dim db As DAO.database Dim tdf As DAO.TableDef Set db = CurrentDb() Set tdf = db.TableDefs(strTableName) Dim fld As DAO.Field For Each fld In tdf.Fields Debug.Print fld.Name, fld.Type, fld.Size Next db.Close Set db = Nothing End Sub This will get the structure of a table you pass in the name of. I will leave it up to you to write the code to create the text file you will need for them to import, place in a module, and run in order to recreate the table structure. Hint: Create a table that has every data type in it to see what the fld.type is returning. Robert At 08:49 AM 3/2/2004 -0600, you wrote: >Date: Mon, 1 Mar 2004 23:05:07 -0800 (PST) >From: S D >Subject: [AccessD] Create scripts: CreateTable? >To: accessd >Message-ID: <20040302070507.73265.qmail at web61106.mail.yahoo.com> >Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii > >Hi group, > >I need to create about 15 new, very large (25-42 fields) tables. Is it >somehow possible to create scripts that generate these tables to migrate >these tables to production? Like in SQL-Server? > >My suggestion was create the tables in Developmennt. Import the tables in >the Test environment and then import them into Production. Answer: NO. >Why? Just NO. Create scripts that generate the objects and we (third >party) run the script. > >Is there something like it? > >regards, > >Sander From Jdemarco at hudsonhealthplan.org Tue Mar 2 10:03:26 2004 From: Jdemarco at hudsonhealthplan.org (Jim DeMarco) Date: Tue, 2 Mar 2004 11:03:26 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] A2K MDE Runtime Reference problem - URGENT Message-ID: <22F1CCD5171D17419CB37FEEE09D5F990173FDF1@TTNEXCHSRV1.hshhp.com> Well we took it out and recompiled and we're good to go! Thanks to all, Jim D. -----Original Message----- From: Rocky Smolin - Beach Access Software [mailto:bchacc at san.rr.com] Sent: Tuesday, March 02, 2004 10:39 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] A2K MDE Runtime Reference problem - URGENT Jim: I've had extra references creep into my apps and I don't know where they came from. So now, from time to time, if I can remember, I check the references at random to see what's there. Rocky ----- Original Message ----- From: "Jim DeMarco" To: "Access Developers discussion and problem solving" Sent: Tuesday, March 02, 2004 7:01 AM Subject: RE: [AccessD] A2K MDE Runtime Reference problem - URGENT > Rocky, > > They don't have the correct version of Access installed (at the win98 location). I found what I think is the offending reference (to a file named cnfgprt.ocx). We're going to remove it then recompile the app and see if it runs. I think that ocx is some NT service pack file but why it's referenced here is a mystery. > > Jim DeMarco > > -----Original Message----- > From: Rocky Smolin - Beach Access Software [mailto:bchacc at san.rr.com] > Sent: Monday, March 01, 2004 1:28 PM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: Re: [AccessD] A2K MDE Runtime Reference problem - URGENT > > > Jim: > > If they can load Access on that machine, you could send them a stripped down > version of the app as an mdb and it should blow dumping them into the code > window. From there you could walk them through displaying the references to > see which one is broken and the do a search on it, copying it to the > expected directory. > > Rocky > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Gustav Brock" > To: "Access Developers discussion and problem solving" > > Sent: Monday, March 01, 2004 9:36 AM > Subject: Re: [AccessD] A2K MDE Runtime Reference problem - URGENT > > > > Hi Jim > > > > > Yes I did. I'll check to see if they did. I just did a win98 > > > install got the #name? error which is good in that at least I've got > > > a platform to test against. > > > > I forgot, at Win 98 it can't be an admin rights' issue. > > > > Then it's probably because a reference exists on Win 98 but of a lower > > version than that on your development machine. Access is not very keen > > to accept a lower version of a reference. > > Either install the newer version of the reference on Win 98 or compile > > your app with the lower version of the reference. > > > > /gustav > > > > > > > Maybe your client installed it without Administrator rights - which > > > you probably did? > > > > > /gustav > > > > > > >> I just installed on an XP system here and the app worked. Some > read-only issues that I believe relate to security on the machine I was on > but the date functions all worked. > > > > >> I seem to recall some code in the archives that set references. I'll > take a look there and see what comes up. > > > > >> Thanks again, > > > > >> Jim D. > > > > >> -----Original Message----- > > >> From: Gustav Brock [mailto:gustav at cactus.dk] > > >> Sent: Monday, March 01, 2004 9:32 AM > > >> To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > > >> Subject: Re: [AccessD] A2K MDE Runtime Reference problem - URGENT > > > > > > >> Hi Jim > > > > >> The Date fields are the symptom only. > > >> The cure is to locate and reestablish one or more missing reference. > > > > >> Access will - and is quite good at it but not perfect - try to locate > > >> any missing reference in the current environment, thus adjusting the > > >> path for each of these references. > > >> Maybe Access succeeded when the MDE was moved to your platform > > >> (Win2000 and C:\WINNT) but failed when it moved "back" (Win 9x/XP and > > >> C:\Windows) at the clients. > > > > >> /gustav > > > > >>> The real mystery is that we have not changed or added any references. > It just seems the date fields that have the problem. > > > > -- > > _______________________________________________ > > AccessD mailing list > > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From chizotz at charter.net Tue Mar 2 10:15:16 2004 From: chizotz at charter.net (chizotz at charter.net) Date: Tue, 2 Mar 2004 10:15:16 -0600 Subject: [AccessD] Acc97: report groups not staying together Message-ID: <200403021615.i22GFGk1082353@mxsf11.cluster1.charter.net> Ahhh. Thanks Gustav, I'll do that. > Did you play with Sorting and Grouping from the menubar? > Choosing > > Keep together: Whole group > > should do the trick. > > /gustav From gustav at cactus.dk Tue Mar 2 10:11:35 2004 From: gustav at cactus.dk (Gustav Brock) Date: Tue, 2 Mar 2004 17:11:35 +0100 Subject: [AccessD] A2K MDE Runtime Reference problem - URGENT In-Reply-To: <005701c4006c$88076330$6801a8c0@HAL9002> References: <22F1CCD5171D17419CB37FEEE09D5F990173FDED@TTNEXCHSRV1.hshhp.com> <005701c4006c$88076330$6801a8c0@HAL9002> Message-ID: <19611825243.20040302171135@cactus.dk> Hi Rocky and Jim You are a nice couple looking for trouble! Checking references at random or not at all is not a recommendable road. You should include that as a mandatory step when you finish your work together with version numbering, (de)compiling, compacting, archiving, documenting, modifying install routines etc. /gustav > Jim: > I've had extra references creep into my apps and I don't know where they > came from. So now, from time to time, if I can remember, I check the > references at random to see what's there. > Rocky From gustav at cactus.dk Tue Mar 2 10:16:07 2004 From: gustav at cactus.dk (Gustav Brock) Date: Tue, 2 Mar 2004 17:16:07 +0100 Subject: [AccessD] Re: Create scripts: CreateTable? In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.2.20040302095517.02922ee0@pop3.highstream.net> References: <5.1.0.14.2.20040302095517.02922ee0@pop3.highstream.net> Message-ID: <15012096874.20040302171607@cactus.dk> Hi Sander Why not use the BEU for this? I don't use it myself but several of the key developers monitors this list. /gustav >>I need to create about 15 new, very large (25-42 fields) tables. Is it >>somehow possible to create scripts that generate these tables to migrate >>these tables to production? Like in SQL-Server? >> >>My suggestion was create the tables in Developmennt. Import the tables in >>the Test environment and then import them into Production. Answer: NO. >>Why? Just NO. Create scripts that generate the objects and we (third >>party) run the script. >> >>Is there something like it? >> >>regards, >> >>Sander From jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com Tue Mar 2 10:23:14 2004 From: jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com (John W. Colby) Date: Tue, 2 Mar 2004 11:23:14 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] word automation not printing In-Reply-To: Message-ID: I got both your original and this one. John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Mitsules, Mark S. (Newport News) Sent: Tuesday, March 02, 2004 9:39 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: [AccessD] word automation not printing ...hmmm:( Are my posts not making it to the list? I posted a similar example from you over an hour ago;) Mark -----Original Message----- From: Gustav Brock [mailto:gustav at cactus.dk] Sent: Tuesday, March 02, 2004 9:33 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] word automation not printing Hi John You may choose to print the document in the background: Function WordDocPrint( _ ByVal strFilename As String, _ Optional ByVal booPrintBackGround As Boolean = False) _ As Boolean ' Print Word document from within Access. ' 2000-05-27. Gustav Brock. Cactus Data ApS. ' 2000-09-10. Modified with option for background printing. ' Example: ? WordDocPrint("C:\Programmer\Microsoft Office 97\Office\Eksempler\produkter.doc") Dim appWord As Word.Application Dim booSuccess As Boolean Set appWord = New Word.Application Debug.Print "- activated" With appWord If Len(Dir(strFilename)) > 0 Then ' Open document strFilename read-only. .Documents.Open strFilename, , True Debug.Print "- opened" .ActiveDocument.PrintOut booPrintBackGround While .BackgroundPrintingStatus > 0 Debug.Print "- printing" DoEvents Wend Debug.Print "- printed" .ActiveDocument.Close Debug.Print "- closed" booSuccess = True End If .Quit Debug.Print "- quit" End With Set appWord = Nothing WordDocPrint = booSuccess End Function /gustav > I am using the following code to print an existing document using word > automation. If I leave out the msgbox statement the document doesn't > print. It's almost as if the close happens before the print manages to > get the document out of word and into the print queue. Has anyone > seen this? Any suggestions? The "Press any key" solution is > unprofessional to say the least. > Function PrintWordDoc(strFilePath As String, strFileName As String, > intCnt As Integer) As Boolean On Error GoTo Err_PrintWordDoc > Dim AppWord As Word.Application > Dim lDoc As Word.Document > Set AppWord = CreateObject("Word.Application") > With AppWord > .Visible = True > .Documents.Open (strFilePath & strFileName) > Set lDoc = .Documents(strFileName) > lDoc.PrintOut , , , , , , , intCnt > msgbox "Press any key to continue" > .Quit savechanges:=False > End With > PrintWordDoc = True > Exit_PrintWordDoc: > On Error Resume Next > Set lDoc = Nothing > Set AppWord = Nothing > Exit Function > Err_PrintWordDoc: > MsgBox Err.Description, , "Error in Sub basMailMerge.PrintWordDoc" > Resume Exit_PrintWordDoc > Resume 0 '.FOR TROUBLESHOOTING > End Function -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com Tue Mar 2 10:23:14 2004 From: jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com (John W. Colby) Date: Tue, 2 Mar 2004 11:23:14 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] word automation not printing In-Reply-To: <1175921094.20040302153311@cactus.dk> Message-ID: Thanks Gustav, Mark. John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Gustav Brock Sent: Tuesday, March 02, 2004 9:33 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] word automation not printing Hi John You may choose to print the document in the background: Function WordDocPrint( _ ByVal strFilename As String, _ Optional ByVal booPrintBackGround As Boolean = False) _ As Boolean ' Print Word document from within Access. ' 2000-05-27. Gustav Brock. Cactus Data ApS. ' 2000-09-10. Modified with option for background printing. ' Example: ? WordDocPrint("C:\Programmer\Microsoft Office 97\Office\Eksempler\produkter.doc") Dim appWord As Word.Application Dim booSuccess As Boolean Set appWord = New Word.Application Debug.Print "- activated" With appWord If Len(Dir(strFilename)) > 0 Then ' Open document strFilename read-only. .Documents.Open strFilename, , True Debug.Print "- opened" .ActiveDocument.PrintOut booPrintBackGround While .BackgroundPrintingStatus > 0 Debug.Print "- printing" DoEvents Wend Debug.Print "- printed" .ActiveDocument.Close Debug.Print "- closed" booSuccess = True End If .Quit Debug.Print "- quit" End With Set appWord = Nothing WordDocPrint = booSuccess End Function /gustav > I am using the following code to print an existing document using word > automation. If I leave out the msgbox statement the document doesn't print. > It's almost as if the close happens before the print manages to get the > document out of word and into the print queue. Has anyone seen this? Any > suggestions? The "Press any key" solution is unprofessional to say the > least. > Function PrintWordDoc(strFilePath As String, strFileName As String, intCnt > As Integer) As Boolean > On Error GoTo Err_PrintWordDoc > Dim AppWord As Word.Application > Dim lDoc As Word.Document > Set AppWord = CreateObject("Word.Application") > With AppWord > .Visible = True > .Documents.Open (strFilePath & strFileName) > Set lDoc = .Documents(strFileName) > lDoc.PrintOut , , , , , , , intCnt > msgbox "Press any key to continue" > .Quit savechanges:=False > End With > PrintWordDoc = True > Exit_PrintWordDoc: > On Error Resume Next > Set lDoc = Nothing > Set AppWord = Nothing > Exit Function > Err_PrintWordDoc: > MsgBox Err.Description, , "Error in Sub basMailMerge.PrintWordDoc" > Resume Exit_PrintWordDoc > Resume 0 '.FOR TROUBLESHOOTING > End Function -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From cfoust at infostatsystems.com Tue Mar 2 10:24:25 2004 From: cfoust at infostatsystems.com (Charlotte Foust) Date: Tue, 2 Mar 2004 08:24:25 -0800 Subject: [AccessD] A2K MDE Runtime Reference problem - URGENT Message-ID: >From the name of the file, it sounds like a printer configuration control. I don't remember anything like that on my NT box. Was there anything like a pdf printer installed on the machine? Charlotte Foust -----Original Message----- From: Jim DeMarco [mailto:Jdemarco at hudsonhealthplan.org] Sent: Tuesday, March 02, 2004 7:01 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] A2K MDE Runtime Reference problem - URGENT Rocky, They don't have the correct version of Access installed (at the win98 location). I found what I think is the offending reference (to a file named cnfgprt.ocx). We're going to remove it then recompile the app and see if it runs. I think that ocx is some NT service pack file but why it's referenced here is a mystery. Jim DeMarco -----Original Message----- From: Rocky Smolin - Beach Access Software [mailto:bchacc at san.rr.com] Sent: Monday, March 01, 2004 1:28 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] A2K MDE Runtime Reference problem - URGENT Jim: If they can load Access on that machine, you could send them a stripped down version of the app as an mdb and it should blow dumping them into the code window. From there you could walk them through displaying the references to see which one is broken and the do a search on it, copying it to the expected directory. Rocky ----- Original Message ----- From: "Gustav Brock" To: "Access Developers discussion and problem solving" Sent: Monday, March 01, 2004 9:36 AM Subject: Re: [AccessD] A2K MDE Runtime Reference problem - URGENT > Hi Jim > > > Yes I did. I'll check to see if they did. I just did a win98 > > install got the #name? error which is good in that at least I've got > > a platform to test against. > > I forgot, at Win 98 it can't be an admin rights' issue. > > Then it's probably because a reference exists on Win 98 but of a lower > version than that on your development machine. Access is not very keen > to accept a lower version of a reference. Either install the newer > version of the reference on Win 98 or compile your app with the lower > version of the reference. > > /gustav > > > > Maybe your client installed it without Administrator rights - which > > you probably did? > > > /gustav > > > >> I just installed on an XP system here and the app worked. Some read-only issues that I believe relate to security on the machine I was on but the date functions all worked. > > >> I seem to recall some code in the archives that set references. > >> I'll take a look there and see what comes up. > > >> Thanks again, > > >> Jim D. > > >> -----Original Message----- > >> From: Gustav Brock [mailto:gustav at cactus.dk] > >> Sent: Monday, March 01, 2004 9:32 AM > >> To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > >> Subject: Re: [AccessD] A2K MDE Runtime Reference problem - URGENT > > > >> Hi Jim > > >> The Date fields are the symptom only. > >> The cure is to locate and reestablish one or more missing > >> reference. > > >> Access will - and is quite good at it but not perfect - try to > >> locate any missing reference in the current environment, thus > >> adjusting the path for each of these references. Maybe Access > >> succeeded when the MDE was moved to your platform (Win2000 and > >> C:\WINNT) but failed when it moved "back" (Win 9x/XP and > >> C:\Windows) at the clients. > > >> /gustav > > >>> The real mystery is that we have not changed or added any > >>> references. It just seems the date fields that have the problem. > > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From Bryan_Carbonnell at cbc.ca Tue Mar 2 10:26:01 2004 From: Bryan_Carbonnell at cbc.ca (Bryan Carbonnell) Date: Tue, 02 Mar 2004 11:26:01 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Re: Create scripts: CreateTable? Message-ID: The BEU works ONLY for Access MDB BEs. Not SQL-Server BE. Bryan Carbonnell bryan_carbonnell at cbc.ca >>> gustav at cactus.dk 02-Mar-04 11:16:07 AM >>> Hi Sander Why not use the BEU for this? I don't use it myself but several of the key developers monitors this list. /gustav >>I need to create about 15 new, very large (25-42 fields) tables. Is it >>somehow possible to create scripts that generate these tables to migrate >>these tables to production? Like in SQL-Server? >> >>My suggestion was create the tables in Developmennt. Import the tables in >>the Test environment and then import them into Production. Answer: NO. >>Why? Just NO. Create scripts that generate the objects and we (third >>party) run the script. >> >>Is there something like it? >> >>regards, >> >>Sander -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From cfoust at infostatsystems.com Tue Mar 2 10:29:25 2004 From: cfoust at infostatsystems.com (Charlotte Foust) Date: Tue, 2 Mar 2004 08:29:25 -0800 Subject: [AccessD] SQL Error Message-ID: I'm not sure what you're trying to say, but is there a reason not to use: ((Member.Rank)<>'WO1'))? Charlotte Foust -----Original Message----- From: Dean Ellis [mailto:deanellis at iprimus.com.au] Sent: Tuesday, March 02, 2004 4:27 AM To: AccessD Subject: [AccessD] SQL Error Hi All, Can anybody help with the following line of Code. I created the SQL part directly from the query window but I keep getting the error "Expected end of statement at the "WO1" area Me.Combo6.RowSource = "SELECT DISTINCTROW Member.[Regt Number], Member Surname, Member.Rank FROM Member WHERE ((Not(Member.Rank)= "WO1")) ORDER BY Member.Surname;" Basically its a dropdown box that needs to leave out certain record depending on the members rank Any thoughts -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From Oleg_123 at xuppa.com Tue Mar 2 10:33:23 2004 From: Oleg_123 at xuppa.com (Oleg_123 at xuppa.com) Date: Tue, 2 Mar 2004 11:33:23 -0500 (EST) Subject: [AccessD] Union the transform queris ? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <43993.63.251.87.214.1078245203.squirrel@heck.bay9.com> Patricia/Jim - thanks a lot :--) > oleg/Jim > > Leave the UnION ALL in but take out the second union before the SELECT > "Pre Investigation Opened" AS Status and it will work. > > Thanks Jim - this is good to know will go into my code archive > > Patti > > > >> -----Original Message----- >> From: Jim Lawrence (AccessD) [mailto:accessd at shaw.ca] >> Sent: Monday, March 01, 2004 08:19 PM >> To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving >> Subject: RE: [AccessD] Union the transform queris ? >> >> >> Hi Oleg: >> >> With just a quick look the code below should work. This >> assumes that the >> data brought back from each TRANSFORM section is identical in >> field count >> and type. Just needs closed curved brackets around each section and >> appropriate Union type clause in between. >> >> HTH >> Jim >> >> ... >> (TRANSFORM Count([Ron Data spr].[ID]) AS Total >> SELECT "Closed without Investigation" AS Status >> FROM [Ron Data spr] >> WHERE ([Ron Data spr].[Preliminary Investigation Closed] >= >> [Forms]![Report Form]![Start_Date]) And ([Ron Data spr].[Preliminary >> Investigation Closed]<=[Forms]![Report Form]![End_Date]) and >> ([Preliminary >> Investigation closed] is not null and [Investigation Opened] is null) >> GROUP BY "Closed without Investigation" >> PIVOT Format([Preliminary Investigation Closed],"mmm") In >> ("Jan","Feb","Mar","Apr","May","Jun","Jul","Aug","Sep","Oct"," >> Nov","Dec")) >> UNION ALL >> (TRANSFORM Count([Ron Data spr].[ID]) AS Total >> Union SELECT "Pre Investigation Opened" AS Status >> FROM [Ron Data spr] >> WHERE ([Ron Data spr].[Preliminary Investigation Opened] >= >> [Forms]![Report Form]![Start_Date]) And ([Ron Data spr].[Preliminary >> Investigation Opened]<=[Forms]![Report Form]![End_Date]) and >> [Preliminary >> Investigation Opened] is not null >> GROUP BY "Pre Investigation Opened" >> PIVOT Format([Preliminary Investigation Opened],"mmm") In >> ("Jan","Feb","Mar","Apr","May","Jun","Jul","Aug","Sep","Oct"," >> Nov","Dec")) >> ... >> >> -- >> _______________________________________________ >> AccessD mailing list >> AccessD at databaseadvisors.com >> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd >> Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com >> > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com ----------------------------------------- Get Breaking News from CNN, ABC, NBC, CBS Now. http://www.xuppa.com/news/?link=webmail From gustav at cactus.dk Tue Mar 2 10:39:37 2004 From: gustav at cactus.dk (Gustav Brock) Date: Tue, 2 Mar 2004 17:39:37 +0100 Subject: [AccessD] Re: Create scripts: CreateTable? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <13113507542.20040302173937@cactus.dk> Hi Bryan Yes, but isn't that the case? If not, why did Sander write "like in SQL Server? Sander? /gustav > The BEU works ONLY for Access MDB BEs. Not SQL-Server BE. > Bryan Carbonnell > bryan_carbonnell at cbc.ca >>>> gustav at cactus.dk 02-Mar-04 11:16:07 AM >>> > Hi Sander > Why not use the BEU for this? > I don't use it myself but several of the key developers monitors this > list. > /gustav >>>I need to create about 15 new, very large (25-42 fields) tables. Is it >>>somehow possible to create scripts that generate these tables to migrate >>>these tables to production? Like in SQL-Server? >>> >>>My suggestion was create the tables in Developmennt. Import the tables in >>>the Test environment and then import them into Production. Answer: NO. >>>Why? Just NO. Create scripts that generate the objects and we (third >>>party) run the script. >>> >>>Is there something like it? >>> >>>regards, >>> >>>Sander From Bryan_Carbonnell at cbc.ca Tue Mar 2 10:46:35 2004 From: Bryan_Carbonnell at cbc.ca (Bryan Carbonnell) Date: Tue, 02 Mar 2004 11:46:35 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Re: Create scripts: CreateTable? Message-ID: Don't know. I just read SQL-Server and assumed that Sander wanted it for SQL-Server and not an mdb. I guess we need some clarification. Bryan >>> gustav at cactus.dk 02-Mar-04 11:39:37 AM >>> Hi Bryan Yes, but isn't that the case? If not, why did Sander write "like in SQL Server? Sander? /gustav > The BEU works ONLY for Access MDB BEs. Not SQL-Server BE. > Bryan Carbonnell > bryan_carbonnell at cbc.ca >>>> gustav at cactus.dk 02-Mar-04 11:16:07 AM >>> > Hi Sander > Why not use the BEU for this? > I don't use it myself but several of the key developers monitors this > list. From Jdemarco at hudsonhealthplan.org Tue Mar 2 11:47:41 2004 From: Jdemarco at hudsonhealthplan.org (Jim DeMarco) Date: Tue, 2 Mar 2004 12:47:41 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] A2K MDE Runtime Reference problem - URGENT Message-ID: <22F1CCD5171D17419CB37FEEE09D5F990173FDFE@TTNEXCHSRV1.hshhp.com> Not that I know of. I Googled it and came to the conclusion (aka guess) that it had something to do with Windows updates but there's nothing about it on M$KB so it's still a WAG. -----Original Message----- From: Charlotte Foust [mailto:cfoust at infostatsystems.com] Sent: Tuesday, March 02, 2004 11:24 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] A2K MDE Runtime Reference problem - URGENT >From the name of the file, it sounds like a printer configuration control. I don't remember anything like that on my NT box. Was there anything like a pdf printer installed on the machine? Charlotte Foust -----Original Message----- From: Jim DeMarco [mailto:Jdemarco at hudsonhealthplan.org] Sent: Tuesday, March 02, 2004 7:01 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] A2K MDE Runtime Reference problem - URGENT Rocky, They don't have the correct version of Access installed (at the win98 location). I found what I think is the offending reference (to a file named cnfgprt.ocx). We're going to remove it then recompile the app and see if it runs. I think that ocx is some NT service pack file but why it's referenced here is a mystery. Jim DeMarco -----Original Message----- From: Rocky Smolin - Beach Access Software [mailto:bchacc at san.rr.com] Sent: Monday, March 01, 2004 1:28 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] A2K MDE Runtime Reference problem - URGENT Jim: If they can load Access on that machine, you could send them a stripped down version of the app as an mdb and it should blow dumping them into the code window. From there you could walk them through displaying the references to see which one is broken and the do a search on it, copying it to the expected directory. Rocky ----- Original Message ----- From: "Gustav Brock" To: "Access Developers discussion and problem solving" Sent: Monday, March 01, 2004 9:36 AM Subject: Re: [AccessD] A2K MDE Runtime Reference problem - URGENT > Hi Jim > > > Yes I did. I'll check to see if they did. I just did a win98 > > install got the #name? error which is good in that at least I've got > > a platform to test against. > > I forgot, at Win 98 it can't be an admin rights' issue. > > Then it's probably because a reference exists on Win 98 but of a lower > version than that on your development machine. Access is not very keen > to accept a lower version of a reference. Either install the newer > version of the reference on Win 98 or compile your app with the lower > version of the reference. > > /gustav > > > > Maybe your client installed it without Administrator rights - which > > you probably did? > > > /gustav > > > >> I just installed on an XP system here and the app worked. Some read-only issues that I believe relate to security on the machine I was on but the date functions all worked. > > >> I seem to recall some code in the archives that set references. > >> I'll take a look there and see what comes up. > > >> Thanks again, > > >> Jim D. > > >> -----Original Message----- > >> From: Gustav Brock [mailto:gustav at cactus.dk] > >> Sent: Monday, March 01, 2004 9:32 AM > >> To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > >> Subject: Re: [AccessD] A2K MDE Runtime Reference problem - URGENT > > > >> Hi Jim > > >> The Date fields are the symptom only. > >> The cure is to locate and reestablish one or more missing > >> reference. > > >> Access will - and is quite good at it but not perfect - try to > >> locate any missing reference in the current environment, thus > >> adjusting the path for each of these references. Maybe Access > >> succeeded when the MDE was moved to your platform (Win2000 and > >> C:\WINNT) but failed when it moved "back" (Win 9x/XP and > >> C:\Windows) at the clients. > > >> /gustav > > >>> The real mystery is that we have not changed or added any > >>> references. It just seems the date fields that have the problem. > > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From Jdemarco at hudsonhealthplan.org Tue Mar 2 11:48:15 2004 From: Jdemarco at hudsonhealthplan.org (Jim DeMarco) Date: Tue, 2 Mar 2004 12:48:15 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] A2K MDE Runtime Reference problem - URGENT Message-ID: <22F1CCD5171D17419CB37FEEE09D5F990173FDFF@TTNEXCHSRV1.hshhp.com> Ouch!! Duly reprimanded! Jim -----Original Message----- From: Gustav Brock [mailto:gustav at cactus.dk] Sent: Tuesday, March 02, 2004 11:12 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] A2K MDE Runtime Reference problem - URGENT Hi Rocky and Jim You are a nice couple looking for trouble! Checking references at random or not at all is not a recommendable road. You should include that as a mandatory step when you finish your work together with version numbering, (de)compiling, compacting, archiving, documenting, modifying install routines etc. /gustav > Jim: > I've had extra references creep into my apps and I don't know where they > came from. So now, from time to time, if I can remember, I check the > references at random to see what's there. > Rocky -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From rl_stewart at highstream.net Tue Mar 2 12:10:15 2004 From: rl_stewart at highstream.net (Robert L. Stewart) Date: Tue, 02 Mar 2004 12:10:15 -0600 Subject: [AccessD] Re: A2K MDE Runtime Reference problem - URGENT In-Reply-To: <200403021659.i22GxSM09668@databaseadvisors.com> Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20040302120924.029d3d78@pop3.highstream.net> Jim, Just a WAG, but from the name of it, I would say it is a printer configuration OCX file. Robert At 10:59 AM 3/2/2004 -0600, you wrote: >Date: Tue, 2 Mar 2004 10:01:16 -0500 >From: "Jim DeMarco" >Subject: RE: [AccessD] A2K MDE Runtime Reference problem - URGENT >To: "Access Developers discussion and problem solving" > >Message-ID: > <22F1CCD5171D17419CB37FEEE09D5F990173FDED at TTNEXCHSRV1.hshhp.com> >Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" > >Rocky, > >They don't have the correct version of Access installed (at the win98 >location). I found what I think is the offending reference (to a file >named cnfgprt.ocx). We're going to remove it then recompile the app and >see if it runs. I think that ocx is some NT service pack file but why >it's referenced here is a mystery. > >Jim DeMarco From rl_stewart at highstream.net Tue Mar 2 12:12:37 2004 From: rl_stewart at highstream.net (Robert L. Stewart) Date: Tue, 02 Mar 2004 12:12:37 -0600 Subject: [AccessD] Re: Create scripts: CreateTable? In-Reply-To: <200403021659.i22GxSM09668@databaseadvisors.com> Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20040302121159.02a64ee0@pop3.highstream.net> Steve, I believe he was asking about a way of doing it in Access, like the way SQL Server can do it. Robert At 10:59 AM 3/2/2004 -0600, you wrote: >Date: Tue, 2 Mar 2004 10:40:58 -0500 >From: "Developer" >Subject: RE: [AccessD] Create scripts: CreateTable? >To: "'Access Developers discussion and problem solving'" > >Message-ID: <000501c4006c$c5294260$7001a8c0 at COA3> >Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" > >There is absolutely something like it, in MS-SQL 7.0 or 2000 (it's >likely in 6.5 too, I just don't remember). In Enterprise Manager >(2000), you right click on the development database, then "All Tasks", >"Generate SQL Script...". Select any objects you want scripted >(including sp's, views, etc.) and EM will generate a text file you can >run in Query Analyzer on the production server. I use this all the time >to develop one server and deploy on another. If you are quicker at >Access tables, you may want to do your tables there, use the SQL upsize >wizard, then generate the script (watch for data-type conversion quirks, >however, going from Access to SQL with the wizard). Books Online will >give all the details for script generation. > >Hth >Steve From DWUTKA at marlow.com Tue Mar 2 12:22:23 2004 From: DWUTKA at marlow.com (DWUTKA at marlow.com) Date: Tue, 2 Mar 2004 12:22:23 -0600 Subject: [AccessD] Archives - no scroll bar Message-ID: <2F8793082E00D4119A1700B0D0216BF802227919@main2.marlow.com> Not on the archives on my site. Just checked, and the scroll bars were there. Drew -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Bobby Heid Sent: Tuesday, March 02, 2004 7:52 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: [AccessD] Archives - no scroll bar Hey all, I was searching the archives for something and it had a lot of hits. But since there was no scroll bar, I had to press the tab key to move to each entry. I could not page down or use the mouse wheel either. This is in IE 6.0.28, windows 2k. Is this by design? Thanks, Bobby -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From Bryan_Carbonnell at cbc.ca Tue Mar 2 12:32:20 2004 From: Bryan_Carbonnell at cbc.ca (Bryan Carbonnell) Date: Tue, 02 Mar 2004 13:32:20 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Archives - no scroll bar Message-ID: Not on databaseadvisors.com either. The archives there are not searchable yet. Bobby, where did you search from? Bryan Carbonnell bryan_carbonnell at cbc.ca >>> DWUTKA at marlow.com 02-Mar-04 1:22:23 PM >>> Not on the archives on my site. Just checked, and the scroll bars were there. Drew -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Bobby Heid Sent: Tuesday, March 02, 2004 7:52 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: [AccessD] Archives - no scroll bar Hey all, I was searching the archives for something and it had a lot of hits. But since there was no scroll bar, I had to press the tab key to move to each entry. I could not page down or use the mouse wheel either. This is in IE 6.0.28, windows 2k. Is this by design? Thanks, Bobby From bheid at appdevgrp.com Tue Mar 2 13:48:14 2004 From: bheid at appdevgrp.com (Bobby Heid) Date: Tue, 2 Mar 2004 14:48:14 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Archives - no scroll bar In-Reply-To: <916187228923D311A6FE00A0CC3FAA307B7772@ADGSERVER> Message-ID: <916187228923D311A6FE00A0CC3FAA305BB2C0@ADGSERVER> Hi Bryan, I went to http://www.databaseadvisors.com and clicked on the archive link on the left side of the screen. I entered my search term at: http://www.databaseadvisors.com/archive/archive.htm I then entered my search term and clicked on the little "Go" button. This takes me to the AccessD Archives with a howling wolf in the upper left hand corner. Still no scrollbars this time either. Thanks, Bobby -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Bryan Carbonnell Sent: Tuesday, March 02, 2004 1:32 PM To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: RE: [AccessD] Archives - no scroll bar Not on databaseadvisors.com either. The archives there are not searchable yet. Bobby, where did you search from? Bryan Carbonnell bryan_carbonnell at cbc.ca >>> DWUTKA at marlow.com 02-Mar-04 1:22:23 PM >>> Not on the archives on my site. Just checked, and the scroll bars were there. Drew -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Bobby Heid Sent: Tuesday, March 02, 2004 7:52 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: [AccessD] Archives - no scroll bar Hey all, I was searching the archives for something and it had a lot of hits. But since there was no scroll bar, I had to press the tab key to move to each entry. I could not page down or use the mouse wheel either. This is in IE 6.0.28, windows 2k. Is this by design? Thanks, Bobby -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com Tue Mar 2 13:52:14 2004 From: jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com (John W. Colby) Date: Tue, 2 Mar 2004 14:52:14 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Importing (or linking to) Paradox files In-Reply-To: <007101c3fdb9$d5197ba0$dd2f0a44@bcsext6137> Message-ID: The client sent me his copy of Paradox (he's moving to Access from Paradox so he doesn't use it anymore). Install that and voila, Access can read the db files. It seems that jet uses the BDE if it is available. Problem Solved. John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Dave Sharpe Sent: Saturday, February 28, 2004 12:15 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Importing (or linking to) Paradox files John Would it help if You had Paradox ? http://www.pricewatch.com/ shows a couple of vendors selling WordPerfect Office Pro verion 11 ( that seens to be the most recent ) for only $18.00 ----- Original Message ----- From: "John W. Colby" To: "Access Developers discussion and problem solving" Sent: Saturday, February 28, 2004 12:00 AM Subject: RE: [AccessD] Importing (or linking to) Paradox files That may very well be it. I asked specifically only for the .db files because he sent me a hundred files for just 3 tables. John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Steven W. Erbach Sent: Friday, February 27, 2004 10:09 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Importing (or linking to) Paradox files John, >> My question is are there versions of paradox files that Access can understand these but not those? Are there various drivers that need to be downloaded or something? << Since Borland stopped development of the Borland Database Engine (BDE) some time ago I doubt that there would be new table drivers. The last version was 5.1, I believe, in 1999! Paradox table formats have changed over the years, but I don't think there were any changes after version 7. Are there supposed to be any Memo fields in the Paradox tables? Paradox is a file-based database and Memo fields are stored in an .MB file separate from the .DB file. However, if your customer only sent you the .DB files that may be the problem. Paradox spawns off a whole mess of associated files for each table depending on how many indexes you create: .DB, .MB, .PX (primary key), and "secondary" indexes take up pairs of files: .XG0 and .YG0 and a whole slew of .XGx and .YGx files, one pair for each index. Maybe your client didn't send you all the files that go with each table's "family". If you'd like I could take a stab at a couple of your problem .DB files. I have Paradox 9, 8, and 7 as well as Access 97, 2000, and XP. Regards, Steve Erbach Scientific Marketing Neenah, WI 920-969-0504 "Without men, civilization would last until the oil needed changing." - Fred Reed From bchacc at san.rr.com Tue Mar 2 14:17:40 2004 From: bchacc at san.rr.com (Rocky Smolin - Beach Access Software) Date: Tue, 2 Mar 2004 12:17:40 -0800 Subject: [AccessD] A2K MDE Runtime Reference problem - URGENT References: <22F1CCD5171D17419CB37FEEE09D5F990173FDFF@TTNEXCHSRV1.hshhp.com> Message-ID: <017901c40093$69ccabb0$6801a8c0@HAL9002> I could get my programmer's license revoked. Rocky ----- Original Message ----- From: "Jim DeMarco" To: "Access Developers discussion and problem solving" Sent: Tuesday, March 02, 2004 9:48 AM Subject: RE: [AccessD] A2K MDE Runtime Reference problem - URGENT > Ouch!! Duly reprimanded! > > Jim > > -----Original Message----- > From: Gustav Brock [mailto:gustav at cactus.dk] > Sent: Tuesday, March 02, 2004 11:12 AM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: Re: [AccessD] A2K MDE Runtime Reference problem - URGENT > > > Hi Rocky and Jim > > You are a nice couple looking for trouble! > > Checking references at random or not at all is not a recommendable > road. You should include that as a mandatory step when you finish your > work together with version numbering, (de)compiling, compacting, > archiving, documenting, modifying install routines etc. > > /gustav > > > > Jim: > > > I've had extra references creep into my apps and I don't know where they > > came from. So now, from time to time, if I can remember, I check the > > references at random to see what's there. > > > Rocky > > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > From DWUTKA at marlow.com Tue Mar 2 17:20:02 2004 From: DWUTKA at marlow.com (DWUTKA at marlow.com) Date: Tue, 2 Mar 2004 17:20:02 -0600 Subject: [AccessD] Archives - no scroll bar Message-ID: <2F8793082E00D4119A1700B0D0216BF80222791E@main2.marlow.com> Bobby, try going directly to the searchable archives. http://www.wolfwares.com/AccessD Do your search there. If you still have no scroll bars, let me know. If you do have them, then we need to let Jim Lawrence know. He may have used a script, that is opening my site in a new window, that doesn't have a flag set for scrollbars. Drew -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Bobby Heid Sent: Tuesday, March 02, 2004 1:48 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: [AccessD] Archives - no scroll bar Hi Bryan, I went to http://www.databaseadvisors.com and clicked on the archive link on the left side of the screen. I entered my search term at: http://www.databaseadvisors.com/archive/archive.htm I then entered my search term and clicked on the little "Go" button. This takes me to the AccessD Archives with a howling wolf in the upper left hand corner. Still no scrollbars this time either. Thanks, Bobby -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Bryan Carbonnell Sent: Tuesday, March 02, 2004 1:32 PM To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: RE: [AccessD] Archives - no scroll bar Not on databaseadvisors.com either. The archives there are not searchable yet. Bobby, where did you search from? Bryan Carbonnell bryan_carbonnell at cbc.ca >>> DWUTKA at marlow.com 02-Mar-04 1:22:23 PM >>> Not on the archives on my site. Just checked, and the scroll bars were there. Drew -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Bobby Heid Sent: Tuesday, March 02, 2004 7:52 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: [AccessD] Archives - no scroll bar Hey all, I was searching the archives for something and it had a lot of hits. But since there was no scroll bar, I had to press the tab key to move to each entry. I could not page down or use the mouse wheel either. This is in IE 6.0.28, windows 2k. Is this by design? Thanks, Bobby -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From DWUTKA at marlow.com Tue Mar 2 17:31:33 2004 From: DWUTKA at marlow.com (DWUTKA at marlow.com) Date: Tue, 2 Mar 2004 17:31:33 -0600 Subject: [AccessD] Looking for Calander App that would interact with A ccess Message-ID: <2F8793082E00D4119A1700B0D0216BF80222791F@main2.marlow.com> Take a look at MiniCalendar 3.0, on my site. Look at the cycle mode. It's not a complete app, just a 'form' add-in. However, it's relatively easy to integrate into another access app. (Warning, if you are using A2k or up, hold the shift key when opening, and kill the AutoExec macro when you get the chance. (extra fluff involved that only works right in A97...only there in the startup though....) Drew -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of John Skolits Sent: Tuesday, March 02, 2004 8:33 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: [AccessD] Looking for Calander App that would interact with Access Anyone see a good Calendar App that allows people to schedule information for a particular customer and link that customer to an Access database. In this way, a dispatcher can use the calendar to schedule appointments and then print customer database info for a repair person before they go to the customers location. Thanks, John Skolits -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From DWUTKA at marlow.com Tue Mar 2 17:36:03 2004 From: DWUTKA at marlow.com (DWUTKA at marlow.com) Date: Tue, 2 Mar 2004 17:36:03 -0600 Subject: [AccessD] A2K MDE Runtime Reference problem - URGENT Message-ID: <2F8793082E00D4119A1700B0D0216BF802227922@main2.marlow.com> You were actually licensed? LOL Drew -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Rocky Smolin - Beach Access Software Sent: Tuesday, March 02, 2004 2:18 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] A2K MDE Runtime Reference problem - URGENT I could get my programmer's license revoked. Rocky ----- Original Message ----- From: "Jim DeMarco" To: "Access Developers discussion and problem solving" Sent: Tuesday, March 02, 2004 9:48 AM Subject: RE: [AccessD] A2K MDE Runtime Reference problem - URGENT > Ouch!! Duly reprimanded! > > Jim > > -----Original Message----- > From: Gustav Brock [mailto:gustav at cactus.dk] > Sent: Tuesday, March 02, 2004 11:12 AM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: Re: [AccessD] A2K MDE Runtime Reference problem - URGENT > > > Hi Rocky and Jim > > You are a nice couple looking for trouble! > > Checking references at random or not at all is not a recommendable > road. You should include that as a mandatory step when you finish your > work together with version numbering, (de)compiling, compacting, > archiving, documenting, modifying install routines etc. > > /gustav > > > > Jim: > > > I've had extra references creep into my apps and I don't know where they > > came from. So now, from time to time, if I can remember, I check the > > references at random to see what's there. > > > Rocky > > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From Developer at UltraDNT.com Tue Mar 2 18:18:25 2004 From: Developer at UltraDNT.com (Developer) Date: Tue, 2 Mar 2004 19:18:25 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Re: Create scripts: CreateTable? In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.2.20040302121159.02a64ee0@pop3.highstream.net> Message-ID: <001c01c400b5$0e93e2f0$7001a8c0@COA3> Robert: I thought that at first, but if that was the case, why not just send the client the empty .mdb? Communication is key ... Lol Steve -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Robert L. Stewart Sent: Tuesday, March 02, 2004 1:13 PM To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: [AccessD] Re: Create scripts: CreateTable? Steve, I believe he was asking about a way of doing it in Access, like the way SQL Server can do it. Robert At 10:59 AM 3/2/2004 -0600, you wrote: >Date: Tue, 2 Mar 2004 10:40:58 -0500 >From: "Developer" >Subject: RE: [AccessD] Create scripts: CreateTable? >To: "'Access Developers discussion and problem solving'" > >Message-ID: <000501c4006c$c5294260$7001a8c0 at COA3> >Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" > >There is absolutely something like it, in MS-SQL 7.0 or 2000 (it's >likely in 6.5 too, I just don't remember). In Enterprise Manager >(2000), you right click on the development database, then "All Tasks", >"Generate SQL Script...". Select any objects you want scripted >(including sp's, views, etc.) and EM will generate a text file you can >run in Query Analyzer on the production server. I use this all the >time to develop one server and deploy on another. If you are quicker >at Access tables, you may want to do your tables there, use the SQL >upsize wizard, then generate the script (watch for data-type conversion >quirks, however, going from Access to SQL with the wizard). Books >Online will give all the details for script generation. > >Hth >Steve -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From carbonnb at sympatico.ca Tue Mar 2 19:42:03 2004 From: carbonnb at sympatico.ca (Bryan Carbonnell) Date: Tue, 02 Mar 2004 20:42:03 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Archives - no scroll bar In-Reply-To: <916187228923D311A6FE00A0CC3FAA305BB2C0@ADGSERVER> References: <916187228923D311A6FE00A0CC3FAA307B7772@ADGSERVER> Message-ID: <4044F19B.4657.EF8332@localhost> On 2 Mar 2004 at 14:48, Bobby Heid wrote: > I went to http://www.databaseadvisors.com and clicked on the archive > link on the left side of the screen. > > I entered my search term at: > http://www.databaseadvisors.com/archive/archive.htm > > I then entered my search term and clicked on the little "Go" button. > > This takes me to the AccessD Archives with a howling wolf in the upper > left hand corner. Still no scrollbars this time either. That's Drew's archives at Wolfwares.com. I have tried this with IE5.5 and Firefox 0.8 on Win2K; IE6, Firefox 0.8 and Opera 7.03 on WinXPP and I get the scroll bars. Gotta ask the obvious, is the window partially out of the viewable desktop? That or your IE install is hosed is all that I can think of. -- Bryan Carbonnell - carbonnb at sympatico.ca You can go anywhere you want if you look serious and carry a clipboard. From stuart at lexacorp.com.pg Tue Mar 2 19:51:02 2004 From: stuart at lexacorp.com.pg (Stuart McLachlan) Date: Wed, 03 Mar 2004 11:51:02 +1000 Subject: [AccessD] Archives - no scroll bar In-Reply-To: <4044F19B.4657.EF8332@localhost> References: <916187228923D311A6FE00A0CC3FAA305BB2C0@ADGSERVER> Message-ID: <4045C6A6.18632.EAB256@localhost> On 2 Mar 2004 at 20:42, Bryan Carbonnell wrote: > On 2 Mar 2004 at 14:48, Bobby Heid wrote: > > > I went to http://www.databaseadvisors.com and clicked on the archive > > link on the left side of the screen. > > > > I entered my search term at: > > http://www.databaseadvisors.com/archive/archive.htm > > > > I then entered my search term and clicked on the little "Go" button. > > > > This takes me to the AccessD Archives with a howling wolf in the upper > > left hand corner. Still no scrollbars this time either. > > That's Drew's archives at Wolfwares.com. > > I have tried this with IE5.5 and Firefox 0.8 on Win2K; IE6, Firefox > 0.8 and Opera 7.03 on WinXPP and I get the scroll bars. > Works fine with IE6 on W2KPro. -- Lexacorp Ltd http://www.lexacorp.com.pg Information Technology Consultancy, Software Development,System Support. From john at winhaven.net Tue Mar 2 21:00:04 2004 From: john at winhaven.net (John Bartow) Date: Tue, 2 Mar 2004 21:00:04 -0600 Subject: [AccessD] Drew - Age of the Archives? Message-ID: Drew, Someone recently asked me how long I have been on this list. The only point of reference I could think of was about two years before I sent all my archives to Drew! So, Do you know when you put the archives together on your site? John "My memory is 40 years ahead of it time (I have a like I'm over 80)" Bartow From gustav at cactus.dk Wed Mar 3 03:13:26 2004 From: gustav at cactus.dk (Gustav Brock) Date: Wed, 3 Mar 2004 10:13:26 +0100 Subject: [AccessD] Archives - no scroll bar In-Reply-To: <916187228923D311A6FE00A0CC3FAA305BB2C0@ADGSERVER> References: <916187228923D311A6FE00A0CC3FAA305BB2C0@ADGSERVER> Message-ID: <1133885426.20040303101326@cactus.dk> Hi Bobby > I then entered my search term and clicked on the little "Go" button. You need to press Enter. (That's a secret of the community; erase this when read) NO ARCHIVE /gustav From ayishakca at yahoo.ca Wed Mar 3 03:27:49 2004 From: ayishakca at yahoo.ca (Ayisha) Date: Wed, 3 Mar 2004 12:27:49 +0300 Subject: [AccessD] Drew - Age of the Archives? References: Message-ID: <000901c40101$cf90b9a0$a2d15dd4@ali> Is there any way that i can open a linked form in background. Any Idea???? Ayisha From my.lists at verizon.net Wed Mar 3 04:23:36 2004 From: my.lists at verizon.net (Francisco H Tapia) Date: Wed, 03 Mar 2004 02:23:36 -0800 Subject: [AccessD] Continous form based off a recordset Message-ID: <4045B228.3090403@verizon.net> bottom line (SqlServer2000 + Access 2000 ADP) have a recordset in an ADP.. the data is from SqlServer and i've been looking at the code all day (march 2) till now Mar3rd at 2am.... it's a sproc that joins across a udf and some subqueries... bottom line Access doesn't see this as an updatable recordset... so I created a 2nd sproc that takes these parameters and dumps it to a #tempTable however this sproc is still NOT updatable :( wtf! ... so.. I dimmed my variable RS as an adorecordset but still I get issues because even if I create a disconnected RS, it cannot be bound to the form unless I push the activeconnection property to it which then gives me other issues well it's 230am (practically) and i'm probably gonna crash now due to exhaustion but if anyone can make sense and wants to drop me a line, thanks I appreciate it... :D -- -Francisco From d.dick at uws.edu.au Wed Mar 3 05:16:44 2004 From: d.dick at uws.edu.au (Darren DICK) Date: Wed, 3 Mar 2004 22:16:44 +1100 Subject: [AccessD] A2K: Filtering a pick list Message-ID: <000e01c40111$3cf382c0$42669a89@DDICK> Hello all I have a very large list box that lists all the products (in this case chairs) in a db Each chair in tblChairs has many fields but in this case the ones I am interested in are ChairID, SupplierID, BackTypeID, RangeID, StyleID So on the same form as this very large list box of chairs, I have combo boxes - yep you guessed it - 4 of 'em - cboSuppliers, cboBackTypes, cboRanges, cboStyleID I wanna filter the large list box based on the values in all or any combination of the combo boxes. EG Say supplier 5 = Acme Manufacturing and in the whole dB there are 100 chairs made by Acme Say of that 100 that Acme produce 38 of em have a Backtype of 2 (as in Low =1 medium=2 High=3 etc) I would want the large list to instantly decrease to 100 items if I selected Acme from the Suppliers combo. Then I would want that list to further decreas to 38 when I choose Medium back PSUEDo = show me evert chair in the dB with supplier ID = 5 and BackType = 2 etc etc and then somehow accept the various combinations of combo choices. Is there a clever or easy way of doing this without writing a zillion sql's then selecting the correct one and making it the listbox row source? Many thanks in advance Darren From JohnSkolits at CorporateDataDesign.com Wed Mar 3 05:55:54 2004 From: JohnSkolits at CorporateDataDesign.com (John Skolits) Date: Wed, 3 Mar 2004 06:55:54 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Looking for Calander App that would interact with Access In-Reply-To: <2F8793082E00D4119A1700B0D0216BF80222791F@main2.marlow.com> Message-ID: <001001c40116$7bc19910$0f01a8c0@cddserver2> I'll take a look. Thanks! -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of DWUTKA at marlow.com Sent: Tuesday, March 02, 2004 6:32 PM To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: RE: [AccessD] Looking for Calander App that would interact with Access Take a look at MiniCalendar 3.0, on my site. Look at the cycle mode. It's not a complete app, just a 'form' add-in. However, it's relatively easy to integrate into another access app. (Warning, if you are using A2k or up, hold the shift key when opening, and kill the AutoExec macro when you get the chance. (extra fluff involved that only works right in A97...only there in the startup though....) Drew -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of John Skolits Sent: Tuesday, March 02, 2004 8:33 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: [AccessD] Looking for Calander App that would interact with Access Anyone see a good Calendar App that allows people to schedule information for a particular customer and link that customer to an Access database. In this way, a dispatcher can use the calendar to schedule appointments and then print customer database info for a repair person before they go to the customers location. Thanks, John Skolits -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From JohnSkolits at CorporateDataDesign.com Wed Mar 3 06:03:10 2004 From: JohnSkolits at CorporateDataDesign.com (John Skolits) Date: Wed, 3 Mar 2004 07:03:10 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Looking for Calander App that would interact with Access In-Reply-To: <2F8793082E00D4119A1700B0D0216BF80222791F@main2.marlow.com> Message-ID: <001501c40117$7f8f2660$0f01a8c0@cddserver2> Hey Drew, Can't find your site address. Thanks. -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of DWUTKA at marlow.com Sent: Tuesday, March 02, 2004 6:32 PM To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: RE: [AccessD] Looking for Calander App that would interact with Access Take a look at MiniCalendar 3.0, on my site. Look at the cycle mode. It's not a complete app, just a 'form' add-in. However, it's relatively easy to integrate into another access app. (Warning, if you are using A2k or up, hold the shift key when opening, and kill the AutoExec macro when you get the chance. (extra fluff involved that only works right in A97...only there in the startup though....) Drew -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of John Skolits Sent: Tuesday, March 02, 2004 8:33 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: [AccessD] Looking for Calander App that would interact with Access Anyone see a good Calendar App that allows people to schedule information for a particular customer and link that customer to an Access database. In this way, a dispatcher can use the calendar to schedule appointments and then print customer database info for a repair person before they go to the customers location. Thanks, John Skolits -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From d.dick at uws.edu.au Wed Mar 3 06:09:12 2004 From: d.dick at uws.edu.au (Darren DICK) Date: Wed, 3 Mar 2004 23:09:12 +1100 Subject: [AccessD] Looking for Calander App that would interact with Access References: <001501c40117$7f8f2660$0f01a8c0@cddserver2> Message-ID: <00cd01c40118$67a53660$42669a89@DDICK> www.wolfwares.com ----- Original Message ----- From: "John Skolits" To: "'Access Developers discussion and problem solving'" Sent: Wednesday, March 03, 2004 11:03 PM Subject: RE: [AccessD] Looking for Calander App that would interact with Access > Hey Drew, > > Can't find your site address. > > Thanks. > > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of > DWUTKA at marlow.com > Sent: Tuesday, March 02, 2004 6:32 PM > To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com > Subject: RE: [AccessD] Looking for Calander App that would interact with > Access > > > Take a look at MiniCalendar 3.0, on my site. Look at the cycle mode. > It's not a complete app, just a 'form' add-in. However, it's relatively > easy to integrate into another access app. (Warning, if you are using > A2k or up, hold the shift key when opening, and kill the AutoExec macro > when you get the chance. (extra fluff involved that only works right in > A97...only there in the startup though....) > > Drew > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of John Skolits > Sent: Tuesday, March 02, 2004 8:33 AM > To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' > Subject: [AccessD] Looking for Calander App that would interact with > Access > > > > Anyone see a good Calendar App that allows people to schedule > information for a particular customer and link that customer to an > Access database. > In this way, a dispatcher can use the calendar to schedule appointments > and then print customer database info for a repair person before they go > to the customers location. > > Thanks, > > John Skolits > > > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From stuart at lexacorp.com.pg Wed Mar 3 06:14:29 2004 From: stuart at lexacorp.com.pg (Stuart McLachlan) Date: Wed, 03 Mar 2004 22:14:29 +1000 Subject: [AccessD] A2K: Filtering a pick list In-Reply-To: <000e01c40111$3cf382c0$42669a89@DDICK> Message-ID: <404658C5.18582.3257592@localhost> On 3 Mar 2004 at 22:16, Darren DICK wrote: > Hello all > I have a very large list box that lists all the products (in this case chairs) in a db > Each chair in tblChairs has many fields but in this case the ones I am interested > in are ChairID, SupplierID, BackTypeID, RangeID, StyleID > > So on the same form as this very large list box of chairs, I have combo boxes - > yep you guessed it - 4 of 'em - cboSuppliers, cboBackTypes, cboRanges, cboStyleID > > I wanna filter the large list box based on the values in all or any combination of the combo boxes. > > EG > Say supplier 5 = Acme Manufacturing and in the whole dB there are 100 chairs made by Acme > Say of that 100 that Acme produce 38 of em have a Backtype of 2 (as in Low =1 medium=2 High=3 etc) > > I would want the large list to instantly decrease to 100 items if I selected Acme from the Suppliers combo. > Then I would want that list to further decreas to 38 when I choose Medium back > PSUEDo = show me evert chair in the dB with supplier ID = 5 and BackType = 2 > etc etc and then somehow accept the various combinations of combo choices. > > Is there a clever or easy way of doing this without writing a zillion sql's then selecting the correct one > and making it the listbox row source? > Here's one way off the top of my head: In the On_Exit of each combo call a function RebuildList() Function RebuildList() as long Dim strSQL as String If cboSuppliers.ListIndex > -1 then strSQL = "SupplierID = " & cboSuppliers End if If cboBackType.ListIndex > -1 then if len(strSQL) > 0 then strSQL = StrSQL & " AND " strSQL = strSQL & "BackTypeID = " & cboBackTypes End if If cboRanges.ListIndex > -1 then if len(strSQL) > 0 then strSQL = StrSQL & " AND " strSQL = "RangeID = " & cboRanges End if If cboStyles.ListIndex > -1 then if len(strSQL) > 0 then strSQL = StrSQL & " AND " strSQL = "StyleID = " & cboStyles End if If len(strSQL)> 0 then strSQL = "WHERE " & strSQL strSQL = "Select ChairID, SupplierID, BackTypeID, RangeID, StyleID" _ & " tblChairs " & strSQL lstChairs.Recordsource = strSQL lstChairs.Requery -- Lexacorp Ltd http://www.lexacorp.com.pg Information Technology Consultancy, Software Development,System Support. From stuart at lexacorp.com.pg Wed Mar 3 06:15:41 2004 From: stuart at lexacorp.com.pg (Stuart McLachlan) Date: Wed, 03 Mar 2004 22:15:41 +1000 Subject: [AccessD] Looking for Calander App that would interact with Access In-Reply-To: <001501c40117$7f8f2660$0f01a8c0@cddserver2> References: <2F8793082E00D4119A1700B0D0216BF80222791F@main2.marlow.com> Message-ID: <4046590D.18165.3268EC2@localhost> On 3 Mar 2004 at 7:03, John Skolits wrote: > Hey Drew, > > Can't find your site address. > He's at http://www.wolfwares.com -- Lexacorp Ltd http://www.lexacorp.com.pg Information Technology Consultancy, Software Development,System Support. From stuart at lexacorp.com.pg Wed Mar 3 06:19:41 2004 From: stuart at lexacorp.com.pg (Stuart McLachlan) Date: Wed, 03 Mar 2004 22:19:41 +1000 Subject: [AccessD] A2K: Filtering a pick list In-Reply-To: <000e01c40111$3cf382c0$42669a89@DDICK> Message-ID: <404659FD.15100.32A39B9@localhost> Resending this since my subsequent post has appeared but not this one from the first time I sent it. On 3 Mar 2004 at 22:16, Darren DICK wrote: > Hello all > I have a very large list box that lists all the products (in this case chairs) in a db > Each chair in tblChairs has many fields but in this case the ones I am interested > in are ChairID, SupplierID, BackTypeID, RangeID, StyleID > > So on the same form as this very large list box of chairs, I have combo boxes - > yep you guessed it - 4 of 'em - cboSuppliers, cboBackTypes, cboRanges, cboStyleID > > I wanna filter the large list box based on the values in all or any combination of the combo boxes. > > EG > Say supplier 5 = Acme Manufacturing and in the whole dB there are 100 chairs made by Acme > Say of that 100 that Acme produce 38 of em have a Backtype of 2 (as in Low =1 medium=2 High=3 etc) > > I would want the large list to instantly decrease to 100 items if I selected Acme from the Suppliers combo. > Then I would want that list to further decreas to 38 when I choose Medium back > PSUEDo = show me evert chair in the dB with supplier ID = 5 and BackType = 2 > etc etc and then somehow accept the various combinations of combo choices. > > Is there a clever or easy way of doing this without writing a zillion sql's then selecting the correct one > and making it the listbox row source? > Here's one way off the top of my head: In the On_Exit of each combo call a function RebuildList() Function RebuildList() as long Dim strSQL as String If cboSuppliers.ListIndex > -1 then strSQL = "SupplierID = " & cboSuppliers End if If cboBackType.ListIndex > -1 then if len(strSQL) > 0 then strSQL = StrSQL & " AND " strSQL = strSQL & "BackTypeID = " & cboBackTypes End if If cboRanges.ListIndex > -1 then if len(strSQL) > 0 then strSQL = StrSQL & " AND " strSQL = "RangeID = " & cboRanges End if If cboStyles.ListIndex > -1 then if len(strSQL) > 0 then strSQL = StrSQL & " AND " strSQL = "StyleID = " & cboStyles End if If len(strSQL)> 0 then strSQL = "WHERE " & strSQL strSQL = "Select ChairID, SupplierID, BackTypeID, RangeID, StyleID" _ & " tblChairs " & strSQL lstChairs.Recordsource = strSQL lstChairs.Requery -- Lexacorp Ltd http://www.lexacorp.com.pg Information Technology Consultancy, Software Development,System Support. From accessd667 at yahoo.com Wed Mar 3 07:13:40 2004 From: accessd667 at yahoo.com (S D) Date: Wed, 3 Mar 2004 05:13:40 -0800 (PST) Subject: [AccessD] Re: Create scripts: CreateTable? In-Reply-To: <001c01c400b5$0e93e2f0$7001a8c0@COA3> Message-ID: <20040303131340.30199.qmail@web61104.mail.yahoo.com> thnx for the replies. History: I work for company A and I'm stationed at Customer B. I'm hired by Customer B to develop stuff. Customer B has also hired company C to implement/migrate changes. Company C has a rule that they ONLY use scripts to implement/migrate changes that can be run by 'ZERO-KNOWLEDGE-USERS'!! That is why I need a piece of code to generate CreateTable scripts. I need this piece of code in Access 2000. if anybody neesd any more info don't hesitate to ask. Regards, Sander Developer wrote: Robert: I thought that at first, but if that was the case, why not just send the client the empty .mdb? Communication is key ... Lol Steve -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Robert L. Stewart Sent: Tuesday, March 02, 2004 1:13 PM To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: [AccessD] Re: Create scripts: CreateTable? Steve, I believe he was asking about a way of doing it in Access, like the way SQL Server can do it. Robert At 10:59 AM 3/2/2004 -0600, you wrote: >Date: Tue, 2 Mar 2004 10:40:58 -0500 >From: "Developer" >Subject: RE: [AccessD] Create scripts: CreateTable? >To: "'Access Developers discussion and problem solving'" > >Message-ID: <000501c4006c$c5294260$7001a8c0 at COA3> >Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" > >There is absolutely something like it, in MS-SQL 7.0 or 2000 (it's >likely in 6.5 too, I just don't remember). In Enterprise Manager >(2000), you right click on the development database, then "All Tasks", >"Generate SQL Script...". Select any objects you want scripted >(including sp's, views, etc.) and EM will generate a text file you can >run in Query Analyzer on the production server. I use this all the >time to develop one server and deploy on another. If you are quicker >at Access tables, you may want to do your tables there, use the SQL >upsize wizard, then generate the script (watch for data-type conversion >quirks, however, going from Access to SQL with the wizard). Books >Online will give all the details for script generation. > >Hth >Steve -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com --------------------------------- Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Search - Find what you?re looking for faster. From jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com Wed Mar 3 07:19:00 2004 From: jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com (John W. Colby) Date: Wed, 3 Mar 2004 08:19:00 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] A2K: Filtering a pick list In-Reply-To: <000e01c40111$3cf382c0$42669a89@DDICK> Message-ID: I have a class for each control on the form. Each data class has a "dependent control" collection that I can tell the class in the form's OnOpen "This control (combos, lists and subforms mostly) is dependent on you". Thus when any control changes, it's Afterupdate event checks the DependentControl collection and calls a requery method of that dependent class (anything in the collection). That classes' Requery method requeries its control, then iterates ITS dependent control collection calling the requery method of all of ITs dependent controls. Thus the requery of a parent object ripples down the dependent object chain automatically requerying all dependent children / grandchildren etc. For YOUR purposes (assuming you don't have a framework), each control's AfterUpdate would need to requery that one control. That one control (the combo) would then reference all those other controls in it's SQL or query. In general, that is how it's done. John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Darren DICK Sent: Wednesday, March 03, 2004 6:17 AM To: AccessD List Subject: [AccessD] A2K: Filtering a pick list Hello all I have a very large list box that lists all the products (in this case chairs) in a db Each chair in tblChairs has many fields but in this case the ones I am interested in are ChairID, SupplierID, BackTypeID, RangeID, StyleID So on the same form as this very large list box of chairs, I have combo boxes - yep you guessed it - 4 of 'em - cboSuppliers, cboBackTypes, cboRanges, cboStyleID I wanna filter the large list box based on the values in all or any combination of the combo boxes. EG Say supplier 5 = Acme Manufacturing and in the whole dB there are 100 chairs made by Acme Say of that 100 that Acme produce 38 of em have a Backtype of 2 (as in Low =1 medium=2 High=3 etc) I would want the large list to instantly decrease to 100 items if I selected Acme from the Suppliers combo. Then I would want that list to further decreas to 38 when I choose Medium back PSUEDo = show me evert chair in the dB with supplier ID = 5 and BackType = 2 etc etc and then somehow accept the various combinations of combo choices. Is there a clever or easy way of doing this without writing a zillion sql's then selecting the correct one and making it the listbox row source? Many thanks in advance Darren -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From HollisVJ at pgdp.usec.com Wed Mar 3 07:45:16 2004 From: HollisVJ at pgdp.usec.com (Hollis,Virginia) Date: Wed, 03 Mar 2004 07:45:16 -0600 Subject: [AccessD] Add All to List Message-ID: <618EB4D6DDCDD3119B0A00508B6FD37A0CB0D21D@cntexchange.pgdp.usec.com> How do you add All to List? This form contains 2 combo boxes on a main form. Selecting data shows data on a subform for the related combo box choices. I need to either have an All in the combo boxes or when the form opens, I would like them to be blank. I tried this code in the On Open of the main form, but it still opens to the first record with entries in both combo boxes. With Me .cboNCSANo = "" .cboProcedure = "" End With Virginia From gustav at cactus.dk Wed Mar 3 07:51:33 2004 From: gustav at cactus.dk (Gustav Brock) Date: Wed, 3 Mar 2004 14:51:33 +0100 Subject: [AccessD] Re: Create scripts: CreateTable? In-Reply-To: <20040303131340.30199.qmail@web61104.mail.yahoo.com> References: <20040303131340.30199.qmail@web61104.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <4020571870.20040303145133@cactus.dk> Hi Sander You still need to tell if the tables will exist in a Jet database or in SQL Server or somewhere else. /gustav > thnx for the replies. > History: > I work for company A and I'm stationed at Customer B. I'm hired by Customer B to develop stuff. Customer B has also hired company C to implement/migrate changes. Company C has a rule that they ONLY > use scripts to implement/migrate changes that can be run by 'ZERO-KNOWLEDGE-USERS'!! > That is why I need a piece of code to generate CreateTable scripts. I need this piece of code in Access 2000. > if anybody neesd any more info don't hesitate to ask. > Regards, > Sander > Developer wrote: > Robert: > I thought that at first, but if that was the case, why not just send the > client the empty .mdb? > Communication is key ... Lol > Steve > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Robert L. > Stewart > Sent: Tuesday, March 02, 2004 1:13 PM > To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com > Subject: [AccessD] Re: Create scripts: CreateTable? > Steve, > I believe he was asking about a way of doing it in Access, > like the way SQL Server can do it. From gustav at cactus.dk Wed Mar 3 08:01:09 2004 From: gustav at cactus.dk (Gustav Brock) Date: Wed, 3 Mar 2004 15:01:09 +0100 Subject: [AccessD] notes on mdb bloat In-Reply-To: <1047496262.8435.182.camel@sgsax-th4022c> References: <1047489135.8377.32.camel@sgsax-th4022c> <1128525026.20030312184542@cactus.dk> <1047496262.8435.182.camel@sgsax-th4022c> Message-ID: <3821148499.20040303150109@cactus.dk> Hi Seth et all In Garry Robinson's newsletter I noted this extremely interesting topic: SINGLE RECORD LOCKING, BLOAT AND CITRIX BUGS Did you know that the record-level locking option (menu Tools~Options~Advanced) that is used by Access 2000 onwards has an interesting twist. To achieve a single record lock, each record that is locked uses up all of an Access page in the mdb file. This page of data, most of which will probably be empty for records with only a few fields, consumes 4000 bytes. This space is later recovered when the database is compacted but if you have a database that seems to expand fast, this could be your culprit. For more on this database bloat and a possible cure for Access corruptions for Citrix head to this page. http://ewbi.blogs.com/develops/2004/01/access_corrupti.html and an other blog on the same topic http://dbforums.com/arch/213/2002/10/551337 Gary is here: http://www.vb123.com/ /gustav > I hadn't even thought of that. I tried it just now, and the resulting > mdb is 1.5MB. Still three times as big as the A97 version, but not as > big as the base A2K version. > The unicode comments make sense, I had forgotten about that, too. > Oh well, more interesting info from the developer front... > Seth > On Wed, 2003-03-12 at 11:45, Gustav Brock wrote: >> Hi Seth >> >> What happens if you "forward port" the A97 version to A2000? >> >> /gustav From Bryan_Carbonnell at cbc.ca Wed Mar 3 08:08:40 2004 From: Bryan_Carbonnell at cbc.ca (Bryan Carbonnell) Date: Wed, 03 Mar 2004 09:08:40 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Re: Create scripts: CreateTable? Message-ID: If the back end of the DBs are mdbs then it sure sounds like the BE Upgrader (http://www.databaseadvisors.com/downloads.htm) wil do the job. As long as the developer sets up the changes required, all the end user need do is open a database that has the BEU code run in the startup code of the FE. I have just about finished setting up the BEU to rename and restructure existing data for a new app that I am developing. Full Disclosure: I am one of the co-developers of the BEU Bryan Carbonnell bryan_carbonnell at cbc.ca >>> accessd667 at yahoo.com 03-Mar-04 8:13:40 AM >>> thnx for the replies. History: I work for company A and I'm stationed at Customer B. I'm hired by Customer B to develop stuff. Customer B has also hired company C to implement/migrate changes. Company C has a rule that they ONLY use scripts to implement/migrate changes that can be run by 'ZERO-KNOWLEDGE-USERS'!! That is why I need a piece of code to generate CreateTable scripts. I need this piece of code in Access 2000. if anybody neesd any more info don't hesitate to ask. Regards, Sander From john at winhaven.net Wed Mar 3 08:08:59 2004 From: john at winhaven.net (John Bartow) Date: Wed, 3 Mar 2004 08:08:59 -0600 Subject: [AccessD] Drew - Age of the Archives? In-Reply-To: <000901c40101$cf90b9a0$a2d15dd4@ali> Message-ID: Huh? This would seem to be the conversation of a long married couple. I ask a question and you respond with a question concerning a totally different subject area! :o) John PS: Just kidding, I've made the subject line mistake myself - quite often. -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Ayisha Sent: Wednesday, March 03, 2004 3:28 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Drew - Age of the Archives? Is there any way that i can open a linked form in background. Any Idea???? Ayisha -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From wdhindman at bellsouth.net Wed Mar 3 08:09:14 2004 From: wdhindman at bellsouth.net (William Hindman) Date: Wed, 3 Mar 2004 09:09:14 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Add All to List References: <618EB4D6DDCDD3119B0A00508B6FD37A0CB0D21D@cntexchange.pgdp.usec.com> Message-ID: <000d01c40129$1c3f3d90$6101a8c0@dejpolsys> Virginia ...use a UNION SELECT in the combo record source to add an ALL. ...example: SELECT DISTINCTROW Customers.Company, Customers.[Customer Number] FROM Customers UNION SELECT "","" FROM Customers ORDER BY Customers.Company; William Hindman "My idea of an agreeable person is a person who agrees with me." Disraeli ----- Original Message ----- From: "Hollis,Virginia" To: Sent: Wednesday, March 03, 2004 8:45 AM Subject: [AccessD] Add All to List > How do you add All to List? This form contains 2 combo boxes on a main form. > Selecting data shows data on a subform for the related combo box choices. > > I need to either have an All in the combo boxes or when the form opens, I > would like them to be blank. > > I tried this code in the On Open of the main form, but it still opens to > the first record with entries in both combo boxes. > > With Me > .cboNCSANo = "" > .cboProcedure = "" > End With > > Virginia > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > From ssharkins at bellsouth.net Wed Mar 3 08:12:37 2004 From: ssharkins at bellsouth.net (Susan Harkins) Date: Wed, 3 Mar 2004 09:12:37 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Add All to List In-Reply-To: <618EB4D6DDCDD3119B0A00508B6FD37A0CB0D21D@cntexchange.pgdp.usec.com> Message-ID: <20040303141235.KMDG1896.imf22aec.mail.bellsouth.net@SUSANONE> If you're using a SQL statement to fill the control, use this form SELECT whateveryou'resusing UNION SELECT "(ALL)" FROM samedatasource Susan H. - How do you add All to List? This form contains 2 combo boxes on a main form. Selecting data shows data on a subform for the related combo box choices. From bheid at appdevgrp.com Wed Mar 3 08:14:46 2004 From: bheid at appdevgrp.com (Bobby Heid) Date: Wed, 3 Mar 2004 09:14:46 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Archives - no scroll bar In-Reply-To: <916187228923D311A6FE00A0CC3FAA307B781B@ADGSERVER> Message-ID: <916187228923D311A6FE00A0CC3FAA305BB2C8@ADGSERVER> Works correctly when I go directly there. Thanks, Bobby -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of DWUTKA at marlow.com Sent: Tuesday, March 02, 2004 6:20 PM To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: RE: [AccessD] Archives - no scroll bar Bobby, try going directly to the searchable archives. http://www.wolfwares.com/AccessD Do your search there. If you still have no scroll bars, let me know. If you do have them, then we need to let Jim Lawrence know. He may have used a script, that is opening my site in a new window, that doesn't have a flag set for scrollbars. Drew -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Bobby Heid Sent: Tuesday, March 02, 2004 1:48 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: [AccessD] Archives - no scroll bar Hi Bryan, I went to http://www.databaseadvisors.com and clicked on the archive link on the left side of the screen. I entered my search term at: http://www.databaseadvisors.com/archive/archive.htm I then entered my search term and clicked on the little "Go" button. This takes me to the AccessD Archives with a howling wolf in the upper left hand corner. Still no scrollbars this time either. Thanks, Bobby -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Bryan Carbonnell Sent: Tuesday, March 02, 2004 1:32 PM To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: RE: [AccessD] Archives - no scroll bar Not on databaseadvisors.com either. The archives there are not searchable yet. Bobby, where did you search from? Bryan Carbonnell bryan_carbonnell at cbc.ca >>> DWUTKA at marlow.com 02-Mar-04 1:22:23 PM >>> Not on the archives on my site. Just checked, and the scroll bars were there. Drew -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Bobby Heid Sent: Tuesday, March 02, 2004 7:52 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: [AccessD] Archives - no scroll bar Hey all, I was searching the archives for something and it had a lot of hits. But since there was no scroll bar, I had to press the tab key to move to each entry. I could not page down or use the mouse wheel either. This is in IE 6.0.28, windows 2k. Is this by design? Thanks, Bobby -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From bheid at appdevgrp.com Wed Mar 3 08:17:41 2004 From: bheid at appdevgrp.com (Bobby Heid) Date: Wed, 3 Mar 2004 09:17:41 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Archives - no scroll bar In-Reply-To: <916187228923D311A6FE00A0CC3FAA307B7867@ADGSERVER> Message-ID: <916187228923D311A6FE00A0CC3FAA305BB2C9@ADGSERVER> I checked, all of the window is visible. An interesting thing is that the maximize window button is disabled. Looks like the window is sized to your screen resolution. My resolution is set at 1024 X 768. Thanks, Bobby -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Bryan Carbonnell Sent: Tuesday, March 02, 2004 8:42 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problemsolving Subject: RE: [AccessD] Archives - no scroll bar On 2 Mar 2004 at 14:48, Bobby Heid wrote: > I went to http://www.databaseadvisors.com and clicked on the archive > link on the left side of the screen. > > I entered my search term at: > http://www.databaseadvisors.com/archive/archive.htm > > I then entered my search term and clicked on the little "Go" button. > > This takes me to the AccessD Archives with a howling wolf in the upper > left hand corner. Still no scrollbars this time either. That's Drew's archives at Wolfwares.com. I have tried this with IE5.5 and Firefox 0.8 on Win2K; IE6, Firefox 0.8 and Opera 7.03 on WinXPP and I get the scroll bars. Gotta ask the obvious, is the window partially out of the viewable desktop? That or your IE install is hosed is all that I can think of. -- Bryan Carbonnell - carbonnb at sympatico.ca You can go anywhere you want if you look serious and carry a clipboard. -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From bheid at appdevgrp.com Wed Mar 3 08:18:47 2004 From: bheid at appdevgrp.com (Bobby Heid) Date: Wed, 3 Mar 2004 09:18:47 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Archives - no scroll bar In-Reply-To: <916187228923D311A6FE00A0CC3FAA307B7918@ADGSERVER> Message-ID: <916187228923D311A6FE00A0CC3FAA305BB2CA@ADGSERVER> LOL - Your pretty funny to be up so dam early! Actually, pressing enter from there did not work. But I won't tell! Bobby -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Gustav Brock Sent: Wednesday, March 03, 2004 4:13 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Archives - no scroll bar Hi Bobby > I then entered my search term and clicked on the little "Go" button. You need to press Enter. (That's a secret of the community; erase this when read) NO ARCHIVE /gustav -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From Bryan_Carbonnell at cbc.ca Wed Mar 3 08:41:09 2004 From: Bryan_Carbonnell at cbc.ca (Bryan Carbonnell) Date: Wed, 03 Mar 2004 09:41:09 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Archives - no scroll bar Message-ID: That's weird. I'm at 1024 x 768 as well and it doesn't do that for me. Do you have any sort of popup blocker running? Or something that maybe catches Javascript before it's run? I'm out of ideas. Bryan Carbonnell bryan_carbonnell at cbc.ca >>> bheid at appdevgrp.com 03-Mar-04 9:17:41 AM >>> I checked, all of the window is visible. An interesting thing is that the maximize window button is disabled. Looks like the window is sized to your screen resolution. My resolution is set at 1024 X 768. Thanks, Bobby From bheid at appdevgrp.com Wed Mar 3 08:54:12 2004 From: bheid at appdevgrp.com (Bobby Heid) Date: Wed, 3 Mar 2004 09:54:12 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Archives - no scroll bar In-Reply-To: <916187228923D311A6FE00A0CC3FAA307B79B2@ADGSERVER> Message-ID: <916187228923D311A6FE00A0CC3FAA305BB2CC@ADGSERVER> Now this is weird. I do use PC Mag's Cookie Cop. I disable it and call up the archives. It works! So I enable the IE Proxy setting in Cookie Cop. It still works. Then I enable Coolie Cop. And the web page still works correctly! I'm not sure what is going on. But thanks for all of the suggestions. Bobby -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Bryan Carbonnell Sent: Wednesday, March 03, 2004 9:41 AM To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: RE: [AccessD] Archives - no scroll bar That's weird. I'm at 1024 x 768 as well and it doesn't do that for me. Do you have any sort of popup blocker running? Or something that maybe catches Javascript before it's run? I'm out of ideas. Bryan Carbonnell bryan_carbonnell at cbc.ca >>> bheid at appdevgrp.com 03-Mar-04 9:17:41 AM >>> I checked, all of the window is visible. An interesting thing is that the maximize window button is disabled. Looks like the window is sized to your screen resolution. My resolution is set at 1024 X 768. Thanks, Bobby -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From gustav at cactus.dk Wed Mar 3 08:49:09 2004 From: gustav at cactus.dk (Gustav Brock) Date: Wed, 3 Mar 2004 15:49:09 +0100 Subject: [AccessD] Archives - no scroll bar In-Reply-To: <916187228923D311A6FE00A0CC3FAA305BB2CA@ADGSERVER> References: <916187228923D311A6FE00A0CC3FAA305BB2CA@ADGSERVER> Message-ID: <18624027629.20040303154909@cactus.dk> Hi Bobby > LOL - Your pretty funny to be up so dam early! It's not early for my - I'm in time zone UCT +1. > Actually, pressing enter from there did not work. Strange, for my Opera it makes a huge difference - clicking doesn't work at all. > But I won't tell! All right. /gustav > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Gustav Brock > Sent: Wednesday, March 03, 2004 4:13 AM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: Re: [AccessD] Archives - no scroll bar > Hi Bobby >> I then entered my search term and clicked on the little "Go" button. > You need to press Enter. > (That's a secret of the community; erase this when read) > NO ARCHIVE > /gustav From Bryan_Carbonnell at cbc.ca Wed Mar 3 09:07:56 2004 From: Bryan_Carbonnell at cbc.ca (Bryan Carbonnell) Date: Wed, 03 Mar 2004 10:07:56 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Archives - no scroll bar Message-ID: Well I guess this just proves one thing...... WAGs do work sometimes :) Glad you got it working. Bryan Carbonnell bryan_carbonnell at cbc.ca >>> bheid at appdevgrp.com 03-Mar-04 9:54:12 AM >>> Now this is weird. I do use PC Mag's Cookie Cop. I disable it and call up the archives. It works! So I enable the IE Proxy setting in Cookie Cop. It still works. Then I enable Coolie Cop. And the web page still works correctly! I'm not sure what is going on. But thanks for all of the suggestions. Bobby -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Bryan Carbonnell That's weird. I'm at 1024 x 768 as well and it doesn't do that for me. Do you have any sort of popup blocker running? Or something that maybe catches Javascript before it's run? I'm out of ideas. From rl_stewart at highstream.net Wed Mar 3 09:08:55 2004 From: rl_stewart at highstream.net (Robert L. Stewart) Date: Wed, 03 Mar 2004 09:08:55 -0600 Subject: [AccessD] Re: Create scripts: CreateTable? In-Reply-To: <200403031409.i23E9MM18761@databaseadvisors.com> Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20040303084820.02ac1628@pop3.highstream.net> From the sound of the letter, he is dealing with a QA group that will not allow the promotion of the actual MDB with the tables in it to a production environment. They do not understand how Access works. They want a script that will create the tables. He could actually create a Create Data File under Utilities on his menu system that could create the tables, but it is a lot of code to do it. At 08:09 AM 3/3/2004 -0600, you wrote: >Date: Tue, 2 Mar 2004 19:18:25 -0500 >From: "Developer" >Subject: RE: [AccessD] Re: Create scripts: CreateTable? >To: "'Access Developers discussion and problem solving'" > >Message-ID: <001c01c400b5$0e93e2f0$7001a8c0 at COA3> >Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" > >Robert: >I thought that at first, but if that was the case, why not just send the >client the empty .mdb? > >Communication is key ... Lol > >Steve From BarbaraRyan at cox.net Wed Mar 3 09:16:49 2004 From: BarbaraRyan at cox.net (Barbara Ryan) Date: Wed, 3 Mar 2004 10:16:49 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Access 97 Application Startup Message-ID: <005a01c40132$8cada7c0$0a00a8c0@cx470148a> What is actually happening "behind the scenes" when an Access 97 applications starts up? What are some things that would cause the same app to start up slower on one machine vs. another? Does anyone know of any good documentation of this on the web? Thanks, Barb Ryan From ebarro at afsweb.com Wed Mar 3 09:26:36 2004 From: ebarro at afsweb.com (Eric Barro) Date: Wed, 3 Mar 2004 07:26:36 -0800 Subject: [AccessD] Access 97 Application Startup In-Reply-To: <005a01c40132$8cada7c0$0a00a8c0@cx470148a> Message-ID: I'm going to assume that you are also running Outlook. If so check if Journal is activated. This often slows down loading Office apps. --- Eric Barro Senior Systems Analyst Advanced Field Services (208) 772-7060 http://www.afsweb.com -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Barbara Ryan Sent: Wednesday, March 03, 2004 7:17 AM To: Access List Subject: [AccessD] Access 97 Application Startup What is actually happening "behind the scenes" when an Access 97 applications starts up? What are some things that would cause the same app to start up slower on one machine vs. another? Does anyone know of any good documentation of this on the web? Thanks, Barb Ryan -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com --- Incoming mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.593 / Virus Database: 376 - Release Date: 2/20/2004 --- Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.593 / Virus Database: 376 - Release Date: 2/20/2004 From rl_stewart at highstream.net Wed Mar 3 09:34:46 2004 From: rl_stewart at highstream.net (Robert L. Stewart) Date: Wed, 03 Mar 2004 09:34:46 -0600 Subject: [AccessD] Re: Create scripts: CreateTable? In-Reply-To: <200403031409.i23E9MM18761@databaseadvisors.com> Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20040303092848.02abd820@pop3.highstream.net> Sander, Like I said earlier, you are going to have to write the code to do this. And, each time there is a change, you will have to add the change code also. You might be able to use the BEU that someone else suggested. But I do not have any experience with it, so I cannot tell you how to do it. The problem will be getting the delta (changes) between the current version and the development version automatically. In the development area, you will have to freeze teh code, and extract the differences between the current production and the frozen copy. By freezing the development copy, you can continue making changes for the next release without affecting your "ready for production" copy of the development db. Sorry, but it is too big a project just to write the code for you and post to the list. It would probably take a couple of weeks to write and test it. And that would be working on it full time. Robert At 08:09 AM 3/3/2004 -0600, you wrote: >From: S D >Subject: RE: [AccessD] Re: Create scripts: CreateTable? >To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > >Message-ID: <20040303131340.30199.qmail at web61104.mail.yahoo.com> >Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii > >thnx for the replies. > >History: >I work for company A and I'm stationed at Customer B. I'm hired by >Customer B to develop stuff. Customer B has also hired company C to >implement/migrate changes. Company C has a rule that they ONLY use scripts >to implement/migrate changes that can be run by 'ZERO-KNOWLEDGE-USERS'!! > >That is why I need a piece of code to generate CreateTable scripts. I need >this piece of code in Access 2000. > >if anybody neesd any more info don't hesitate to ask. > >Regards, > >Sander From rl_stewart at highstream.net Wed Mar 3 09:37:47 2004 From: rl_stewart at highstream.net (Robert L. Stewart) Date: Wed, 03 Mar 2004 09:37:47 -0600 Subject: [AccessD] Re: Add All to List In-Reply-To: <200403031409.i23E9MM18761@databaseadvisors.com> Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20040303093536.029703a8@pop3.highstream.net> Virginia, Saved Query with the following as a recordsource SELECT 0 as RecordID, "All" as SelectionOption FROM AnyTable UNION ALL Select YourColumnName, YourDescriptionColumn FROM YourTableName Robert At 08:09 AM 3/3/2004 -0600, you wrote: >Date: Wed, 03 Mar 2004 07:45:16 -0600 >From: "Hollis,Virginia" >Subject: [AccessD] Add All to List >To: "'accessd at databaseadvisors.com'" >Message-ID: > <618EB4D6DDCDD3119B0A00508B6FD37A0CB0D21D at cntexchange.pgdp.usec.com> >Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 > >How do you add All to List? This form contains 2 combo boxes on a main form. >Selecting data shows data on a subform for the related combo box choices. > >I need to either have an All in the combo boxes or when the form opens, I >would like them to be blank. > > I tried this code in the On Open of the main form, but it still opens to >the first record with entries in both combo boxes. > > With Me > .cboNCSANo = "" > .cboProcedure = "" > End With > >Virginia > From BarbaraRyan at cox.net Wed Mar 3 09:46:27 2004 From: BarbaraRyan at cox.net (Barbara Ryan) Date: Wed, 3 Mar 2004 10:46:27 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Access 97 Application Startup References: Message-ID: <008601c40136$b0bdb160$0a00a8c0@cx470148a> The application loads in 20 seconds on my computer. My client says the application takes 2 minutes to load on his machine, which is connected to 3 other computers via token ring (the backend database is shared). This morning, however, he said the app took 20 seconds to load, but nobody else was on the network. I don't think he uses Outlook, but I'll check. Barb ----- Original Message ----- From: "Eric Barro" To: "Access Developers discussion and problem solving" Sent: Wednesday, March 03, 2004 10:26 AM Subject: RE: [AccessD] Access 97 Application Startup > I'm going to assume that you are also running Outlook. If so check if Journal is activated. This often slows down loading Office apps. > > --- > Eric Barro > Senior Systems Analyst > Advanced Field Services > (208) 772-7060 > http://www.afsweb.com > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Barbara Ryan > Sent: Wednesday, March 03, 2004 7:17 AM > To: Access List > Subject: [AccessD] Access 97 Application Startup > > > What is actually happening "behind the scenes" when an Access 97 applications starts up? What are some things that would cause the same app to start up slower on one machine vs. another? Does anyone know of any good documentation of this on the web? > > Thanks, > Barb Ryan > > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > --- > Incoming mail is certified Virus Free. > Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). > Version: 6.0.593 / Virus Database: 376 - Release Date: 2/20/2004 > > --- > Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. > Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). > Version: 6.0.593 / Virus Database: 376 - Release Date: 2/20/2004 > > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From bchacc at san.rr.com Wed Mar 3 09:55:43 2004 From: bchacc at san.rr.com (Rocky Smolin - Beach Access Software) Date: Wed, 3 Mar 2004 07:55:43 -0800 Subject: [AccessD] Deployment Message-ID: <006901c40137$fc4cb0d0$6801a8c0@HAL9002> Dear List: I've got an app I'm developing for the consumer market and we're in beta testing now. It's in A2K so all the betas have to have Access. Eventually it will have to be packaged as a run-time. But at that point it will be shrink-wrapped. In the short term we could expand our beta testing universe with a run-time. So I'm trying to figure out the best way to do this. The problem AFAIK with the run-times is their size. Right now we can email the mde to a beta tester and it's about 3-4MB. If I put up a run-time on my web site, beta testers are not likely to know how to do an FTP program. I suppose I could make a password protected folder on my web site, and get my web site developer to make the run-time downloadable or installable from the site. I don't know how to do this. Maybe she does. I've got A97 developer's edition, Wise Installer, and the Sagekey script for A97. But I don't think that the app can be converted back to A97. In any event, the total A97/Wise/Sagekey package runs to about 70MB IIRC. I could buy A2002 or A2003 if they've got a better deployment capability than they've had in the past. What are your recommendations, suggestions, thoughts? Thanks in advance, Rocky Smolin Beach Access Software From wdhindman at bellsouth.net Wed Mar 3 10:16:48 2004 From: wdhindman at bellsouth.net (William Hindman) Date: Wed, 3 Mar 2004 11:16:48 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Deployment References: <006901c40137$fc4cb0d0$6801a8c0@HAL9002> Message-ID: <003d01c4013a$ee518f70$6101a8c0@dejpolsys> ...can't speak to 2000 but the deployment package in AXP was head over heels better than the A97 version ...I've deployed more than a hundred AXP runtimes with it without a hiccup ...hth :) William Hindman "My idea of an agreeable person is a person who agrees with me." Disraeli ----- Original Message ----- From: "Rocky Smolin - Beach Access Software" To: Sent: Wednesday, March 03, 2004 10:55 AM Subject: [AccessD] Deployment Dear List: I've got an app I'm developing for the consumer market and we're in beta testing now. It's in A2K so all the betas have to have Access. Eventually it will have to be packaged as a run-time. But at that point it will be shrink-wrapped. In the short term we could expand our beta testing universe with a run-time. So I'm trying to figure out the best way to do this. The problem AFAIK with the run-times is their size. Right now we can email the mde to a beta tester and it's about 3-4MB. If I put up a run-time on my web site, beta testers are not likely to know how to do an FTP program. I suppose I could make a password protected folder on my web site, and get my web site developer to make the run-time downloadable or installable from the site. I don't know how to do this. Maybe she does. I've got A97 developer's edition, Wise Installer, and the Sagekey script for A97. But I don't think that the app can be converted back to A97. In any event, the total A97/Wise/Sagekey package runs to about 70MB IIRC. I could buy A2002 or A2003 if they've got a better deployment capability than they've had in the past. What are your recommendations, suggestions, thoughts? Thanks in advance, Rocky Smolin Beach Access Software -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From cfoust at infostatsystems.com Wed Mar 3 10:19:55 2004 From: cfoust at infostatsystems.com (Charlotte Foust) Date: Wed, 3 Mar 2004 08:19:55 -0800 Subject: [AccessD] Deployment Message-ID: The wizard is not significantly better in 2002 than the previous versions, and the runtime is much larger in 2000 and up. 2003 requires the VSTO to distribute a runtime version. We either provide our users (and beta testers) with full setup CDs or they download an installer from an FTP site. That is absolutely the only way to insure that the settings and libraries are the same on both development and beta sites. And even for XP, we use Wise and Sagekey. Charlotte Foust -----Original Message----- From: Rocky Smolin - Beach Access Software [mailto:bchacc at san.rr.com] Sent: Wednesday, March 03, 2004 7:56 AM To: AccessD at databaseadvisors.com Subject: [AccessD] Deployment Dear List: I've got an app I'm developing for the consumer market and we're in beta testing now. It's in A2K so all the betas have to have Access. Eventually it will have to be packaged as a run-time. But at that point it will be shrink-wrapped. In the short term we could expand our beta testing universe with a run-time. So I'm trying to figure out the best way to do this. The problem AFAIK with the run-times is their size. Right now we can email the mde to a beta tester and it's about 3-4MB. If I put up a run-time on my web site, beta testers are not likely to know how to do an FTP program. I suppose I could make a password protected folder on my web site, and get my web site developer to make the run-time downloadable or installable from the site. I don't know how to do this. Maybe she does. I've got A97 developer's edition, Wise Installer, and the Sagekey script for A97. But I don't think that the app can be converted back to A97. In any event, the total A97/Wise/Sagekey package runs to about 70MB IIRC. I could buy A2002 or A2003 if they've got a better deployment capability than they've had in the past. What are your recommendations, suggestions, thoughts? Thanks in advance, Rocky Smolin Beach Access Software -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From cfoust at infostatsystems.com Wed Mar 3 10:24:07 2004 From: cfoust at infostatsystems.com (Charlotte Foust) Date: Wed, 3 Mar 2004 08:24:07 -0800 Subject: [AccessD] Access 97 Application Startup Message-ID: Are they by any chance also sharing the front end? That would certainly cause the ratchetting slowdown. Token Ring isn't the fastest network around either. Charlotte Foust -----Original Message----- From: Barbara Ryan [mailto:BarbaraRyan at cox.net] Sent: Wednesday, March 03, 2004 7:46 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access 97 Application Startup The application loads in 20 seconds on my computer. My client says the application takes 2 minutes to load on his machine, which is connected to 3 other computers via token ring (the backend database is shared). This morning, however, he said the app took 20 seconds to load, but nobody else was on the network. I don't think he uses Outlook, but I'll check. Barb ----- Original Message ----- From: "Eric Barro" To: "Access Developers discussion and problem solving" Sent: Wednesday, March 03, 2004 10:26 AM Subject: RE: [AccessD] Access 97 Application Startup > I'm going to assume that you are also running Outlook. If so check if Journal is activated. This often slows down loading Office apps. > > --- > Eric Barro > Senior Systems Analyst > Advanced Field Services > (208) 772-7060 > http://www.afsweb.com > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Barbara Ryan > Sent: Wednesday, March 03, 2004 7:17 AM > To: Access List > Subject: [AccessD] Access 97 Application Startup > > > What is actually happening "behind the scenes" when an Access 97 applications starts up? What are some things that would cause the same app to start up slower on one machine vs. another? Does anyone know of any good documentation of this on the web? > > Thanks, > Barb Ryan > > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > --- > Incoming mail is certified Virus Free. > Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). > Version: 6.0.593 / Virus Database: 376 - Release Date: 2/20/2004 > > --- > Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. > Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). > Version: 6.0.593 / Virus Database: 376 - Release Date: 2/20/2004 > > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From BarbaraRyan at cox.net Wed Mar 3 10:33:10 2004 From: BarbaraRyan at cox.net (Barbara Ryan) Date: Wed, 3 Mar 2004 11:33:10 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Access 97 Application Startup References: Message-ID: <00a401c4013d$372c4ee0$0a00a8c0@cx470148a> No, they each have a FE on their own machine.............Barb ----- Original Message ----- From: "Charlotte Foust" To: "Access Developers discussion and problem solving" Sent: Wednesday, March 03, 2004 11:24 AM Subject: RE: [AccessD] Access 97 Application Startup > Are they by any chance also sharing the front end? That would certainly > cause the ratchetting slowdown. Token Ring isn't the fastest network > around either. > > Charlotte Foust > > -----Original Message----- > From: Barbara Ryan [mailto:BarbaraRyan at cox.net] > Sent: Wednesday, March 03, 2004 7:46 AM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access 97 Application Startup > > > The application loads in 20 seconds on my computer. My client says the > application takes 2 minutes to load on his machine, which is connected > to 3 other computers via token ring (the backend database is shared). > This morning, however, he said the app took 20 seconds to load, but > nobody else was on the network. > > I don't think he uses Outlook, but I'll check. > > Barb > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Eric Barro" > To: "Access Developers discussion and problem solving" > > Sent: Wednesday, March 03, 2004 10:26 AM > Subject: RE: [AccessD] Access 97 Application Startup > > > > I'm going to assume that you are also running Outlook. If so check if > Journal is activated. This often slows down loading Office apps. > > > > --- > > Eric Barro > > Senior Systems Analyst > > Advanced Field Services > > (208) 772-7060 > > http://www.afsweb.com > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Barbara Ryan > > Sent: Wednesday, March 03, 2004 7:17 AM > > To: Access List > > Subject: [AccessD] Access 97 Application Startup > > > > > > What is actually happening "behind the scenes" when an Access 97 > applications starts up? What are some things that would cause the same > app to start up slower on one machine vs. another? Does anyone know of > any good documentation of this on the web? > > > > Thanks, > > Barb Ryan > > > > -- > > _______________________________________________ > > AccessD mailing list > > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > --- > > Incoming mail is certified Virus Free. > > Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). > > Version: 6.0.593 / Virus Database: 376 - Release Date: 2/20/2004 > > > > --- > > Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. > > Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). > > Version: 6.0.593 / Virus Database: 376 - Release Date: 2/20/2004 > > > > -- > > _______________________________________________ > > AccessD mailing list > > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From cfoust at infostatsystems.com Wed Mar 3 10:30:57 2004 From: cfoust at infostatsystems.com (Charlotte Foust) Date: Wed, 3 Mar 2004 08:30:57 -0800 Subject: [AccessD] Continous form based off a recordset Message-ID: I didn't think forms bound to an ADO recordset were updateable in 2000 period, MDB or ADP. Am I misremembering? Charlotte Foust -----Original Message----- From: Francisco H Tapia [mailto:my.lists at verizon.net] Sent: Wednesday, March 03, 2004 2:24 AM To: AccessD Subject: [AccessD] Continous form based off a recordset bottom line (SqlServer2000 + Access 2000 ADP) have a recordset in an ADP.. the data is from SqlServer and i've been looking at the code all day (march 2) till now Mar3rd at 2am.... it's a sproc that joins across a udf and some subqueries... bottom line Access doesn't see this as an updatable recordset... so I created a 2nd sproc that takes these parameters and dumps it to a #tempTable however this sproc is still NOT updatable :( wtf! ... so.. I dimmed my variable RS as an adorecordset but still I get issues because even if I create a disconnected RS, it cannot be bound to the form unless I push the activeconnection property to it which then gives me other issues well it's 230am (practically) and i'm probably gonna crash now due to exhaustion but if anyone can make sense and wants to drop me a line, thanks I appreciate it... :D -- -Francisco -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From bchacc at san.rr.com Wed Mar 3 10:44:04 2004 From: bchacc at san.rr.com (Rocky Smolin - Beach Access Software) Date: Wed, 3 Mar 2004 08:44:04 -0800 Subject: [AccessD] Deployment References: <006901c40137$fc4cb0d0$6801a8c0@HAL9002> <003d01c4013a$ee518f70$6101a8c0@dejpolsys> Message-ID: <009401c4013e$bd2b7b00$6801a8c0@HAL9002> William: What's the overhead? How big is the package net of the mdb or mde itself? Did you have to buy a developer's license for AXP? Rocky ----- Original Message ----- From: "William Hindman" To: "Access Developers discussion and problem solving" Sent: Wednesday, March 03, 2004 8:16 AM Subject: Re: [AccessD] Deployment > ...can't speak to 2000 but the deployment package in AXP was head over heels > better than the A97 version ...I've deployed more than a hundred AXP > runtimes with it without a hiccup ...hth :) > > William Hindman "My idea of an agreeable person is a person who agrees with > me." Disraeli > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Rocky Smolin - Beach Access Software" > To: > Sent: Wednesday, March 03, 2004 10:55 AM > Subject: [AccessD] Deployment > > > Dear List: > > I've got an app I'm developing for the consumer market and we're in beta > testing now. It's in A2K so all the betas have to have Access. > > Eventually it will have to be packaged as a run-time. But at that point it > will be shrink-wrapped. > > In the short term we could expand our beta testing universe with a run-time. > So I'm trying to figure out the best way to do this. > > The problem AFAIK with the run-times is their size. Right now we can email > the mde to a beta tester and it's about 3-4MB. If I put up a run-time on my > web site, beta testers are not likely to know how to do an FTP program. > > I suppose I could make a password protected folder on my web site, and get > my web site developer to make the run-time downloadable or installable from > the site. I don't know how to do this. Maybe she does. > > I've got A97 developer's edition, Wise Installer, and the Sagekey script for > A97. But I don't think that the app can be converted back to A97. In any > event, the total A97/Wise/Sagekey package runs to about 70MB IIRC. > > I could buy A2002 or A2003 if they've got a better deployment capability > than they've had in the past. > > What are your recommendations, suggestions, thoughts? > > Thanks in advance, > > Rocky Smolin > Beach Access Software > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > From DWUTKA at marlow.com Wed Mar 3 10:46:53 2004 From: DWUTKA at marlow.com (DWUTKA at marlow.com) Date: Wed, 3 Mar 2004 10:46:53 -0600 Subject: [AccessD] Drew - Age of the Archives? Message-ID: <2F8793082E00D4119A1700B0D0216BF802227923@main2.marlow.com> Hmmmm, let's work backwards. I know that the archives stopping archiving this past August/September (2003), because that's when I separated from Tammy. I know the archives started using the 'Memo Field Indexing' in April of 2003, because that is when my apartment caught fire. I know I moved the archives from Marlow to my home in early January of 2003, because my DSL company went bankrupt and pulled the plug on their network then. I have no clue when I actually 'started' the archives, other then a wild guess at about 6 months before I moved it home. So I would say July or August of 2002. Drew (Interesting timeline, eh?) -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of John Bartow Sent: Tuesday, March 02, 2004 9:00 PM To: _DBA-Access Subject: [AccessD] Drew - Age of the Archives? Drew, Someone recently asked me how long I have been on this list. The only point of reference I could think of was about two years before I sent all my archives to Drew! So, Do you know when you put the archives together on your site? John "My memory is 40 years ahead of it time (I have a like I'm over 80)" Bartow -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From DWUTKA at marlow.com Wed Mar 3 10:47:42 2004 From: DWUTKA at marlow.com (DWUTKA at marlow.com) Date: Wed, 3 Mar 2004 10:47:42 -0600 Subject: [AccessD] Drew - Age of the Archives? Message-ID: <2F8793082E00D4119A1700B0D0216BF802227924@main2.marlow.com> What do you mean? Did you want this in another thread? Drew -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Ayisha Sent: Wednesday, March 03, 2004 3:28 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Drew - Age of the Archives? Is there any way that i can open a linked form in background. Any Idea???? Ayisha -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From DWUTKA at marlow.com Wed Mar 3 10:48:11 2004 From: DWUTKA at marlow.com (DWUTKA at marlow.com) Date: Wed, 3 Mar 2004 10:48:11 -0600 Subject: [AccessD] Looking for Calander App that would interact with A ccess Message-ID: <2F8793082E00D4119A1700B0D0216BF802227925@main2.marlow.com> Ooops, http://www.wolfwares.com Drew -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of John Skolits Sent: Wednesday, March 03, 2004 6:03 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: [AccessD] Looking for Calander App that would interact with Access Hey Drew, Can't find your site address. Thanks. -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of DWUTKA at marlow.com Sent: Tuesday, March 02, 2004 6:32 PM To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: RE: [AccessD] Looking for Calander App that would interact with Access Take a look at MiniCalendar 3.0, on my site. Look at the cycle mode. It's not a complete app, just a 'form' add-in. However, it's relatively easy to integrate into another access app. (Warning, if you are using A2k or up, hold the shift key when opening, and kill the AutoExec macro when you get the chance. (extra fluff involved that only works right in A97...only there in the startup though....) Drew -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of John Skolits Sent: Tuesday, March 02, 2004 8:33 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: [AccessD] Looking for Calander App that would interact with Access Anyone see a good Calendar App that allows people to schedule information for a particular customer and link that customer to an Access database. In this way, a dispatcher can use the calendar to schedule appointments and then print customer database info for a repair person before they go to the customers location. Thanks, John Skolits -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From DWUTKA at marlow.com Wed Mar 3 10:50:30 2004 From: DWUTKA at marlow.com (DWUTKA at marlow.com) Date: Wed, 3 Mar 2004 10:50:30 -0600 Subject: [AccessD] Add All to List Message-ID: <2F8793082E00D4119A1700B0D0216BF802227926@main2.marlow.com> Are they bound combo boxes? Easiest way to do that is to just use a Union Query. Say they are currently bound to: SELECT CustomerID FROM tblCustomers Changing the source of the combo to: SELECT "ALL" AS CustomerID FROM tblCustomers UNION SELECT CustomerID FROM tblCustomers Will populate the listbox with ALL as the top option. Drew -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Hollis,Virginia Sent: Wednesday, March 03, 2004 7:45 AM To: 'accessd at databaseadvisors.com' Subject: [AccessD] Add All to List How do you add All to List? This form contains 2 combo boxes on a main form. Selecting data shows data on a subform for the related combo box choices. I need to either have an All in the combo boxes or when the form opens, I would like them to be blank. I tried this code in the On Open of the main form, but it still opens to the first record with entries in both combo boxes. With Me .cboNCSANo = "" .cboProcedure = "" End With Virginia -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From wdhindman at bellsouth.net Wed Mar 3 10:53:51 2004 From: wdhindman at bellsouth.net (William Hindman) Date: Wed, 3 Mar 2004 11:53:51 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Deployment References: <006901c40137$fc4cb0d0$6801a8c0@HAL9002><003d01c4013a$ee518f70$6101a8c0@dejpolsys> <009401c4013e$bd2b7b00$6801a8c0@HAL9002> Message-ID: <001c01c40140$1b47c6c0$6101a8c0@dejpolsys> ...yeah, you need the ODE for XP ...but you can pick that up on e-bay pretty cheap now ...but you need that whether you use wise/sagekey or the ODE packaging wizard ...iirc the ODE has the runtime distribution license, not the Office Pro pkg. William Hindman "My idea of an agreeable person is a person who agrees with me." Disraeli ----- Original Message ----- From: "Rocky Smolin - Beach Access Software" To: "Access Developers discussion and problem solving" Sent: Wednesday, March 03, 2004 11:44 AM Subject: Re: [AccessD] Deployment > William: > > What's the overhead? How big is the package net of the mdb or mde itself? > > Did you have to buy a developer's license for AXP? > > Rocky > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "William Hindman" > To: "Access Developers discussion and problem solving" > > Sent: Wednesday, March 03, 2004 8:16 AM > Subject: Re: [AccessD] Deployment > > > > ...can't speak to 2000 but the deployment package in AXP was head over > heels > > better than the A97 version ...I've deployed more than a hundred AXP > > runtimes with it without a hiccup ...hth :) > > > > William Hindman "My idea of an agreeable person is a person who agrees > with > > me." Disraeli > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: "Rocky Smolin - Beach Access Software" > > To: > > Sent: Wednesday, March 03, 2004 10:55 AM > > Subject: [AccessD] Deployment > > > > > > Dear List: > > > > I've got an app I'm developing for the consumer market and we're in beta > > testing now. It's in A2K so all the betas have to have Access. > > > > Eventually it will have to be packaged as a run-time. But at that point it > > will be shrink-wrapped. > > > > In the short term we could expand our beta testing universe with a > run-time. > > So I'm trying to figure out the best way to do this. > > > > The problem AFAIK with the run-times is their size. Right now we can > email > > the mde to a beta tester and it's about 3-4MB. If I put up a run-time on > my > > web site, beta testers are not likely to know how to do an FTP program. > > > > I suppose I could make a password protected folder on my web site, and get > > my web site developer to make the run-time downloadable or installable > from > > the site. I don't know how to do this. Maybe she does. > > > > I've got A97 developer's edition, Wise Installer, and the Sagekey script > for > > A97. But I don't think that the app can be converted back to A97. In any > > event, the total A97/Wise/Sagekey package runs to about 70MB IIRC. > > > > I could buy A2002 or A2003 if they've got a better deployment capability > > than they've had in the past. > > > > What are your recommendations, suggestions, thoughts? > > > > Thanks in advance, > > > > Rocky Smolin > > Beach Access Software > > -- > > _______________________________________________ > > AccessD mailing list > > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > > > -- > > _______________________________________________ > > AccessD mailing list > > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > From DWUTKA at marlow.com Wed Mar 3 10:53:06 2004 From: DWUTKA at marlow.com (DWUTKA at marlow.com) Date: Wed, 3 Mar 2004 10:53:06 -0600 Subject: [AccessD] Archives - no scroll bar Message-ID: <2F8793082E00D4119A1700B0D0216BF802227927@main2.marlow.com> Okay, we need to ask Jim to look at his code, that is sending you to the Archives. He is probably using the open statement, and not implicitly including the scrollbars argument. I've seen that do funny things before, where one browser will work fine, and another goes goofy. (Even same type of browser...it just depends on the settings in the browser). Drew -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Bobby Heid Sent: Wednesday, March 03, 2004 8:15 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: [AccessD] Archives - no scroll bar Works correctly when I go directly there. Thanks, Bobby -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of DWUTKA at marlow.com Sent: Tuesday, March 02, 2004 6:20 PM To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: RE: [AccessD] Archives - no scroll bar Bobby, try going directly to the searchable archives. http://www.wolfwares.com/AccessD Do your search there. If you still have no scroll bars, let me know. If you do have them, then we need to let Jim Lawrence know. He may have used a script, that is opening my site in a new window, that doesn't have a flag set for scrollbars. Drew -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Bobby Heid Sent: Tuesday, March 02, 2004 1:48 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: [AccessD] Archives - no scroll bar Hi Bryan, I went to http://www.databaseadvisors.com and clicked on the archive link on the left side of the screen. I entered my search term at: http://www.databaseadvisors.com/archive/archive.htm I then entered my search term and clicked on the little "Go" button. This takes me to the AccessD Archives with a howling wolf in the upper left hand corner. Still no scrollbars this time either. Thanks, Bobby -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Bryan Carbonnell Sent: Tuesday, March 02, 2004 1:32 PM To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: RE: [AccessD] Archives - no scroll bar Not on databaseadvisors.com either. The archives there are not searchable yet. Bobby, where did you search from? Bryan Carbonnell bryan_carbonnell at cbc.ca >>> DWUTKA at marlow.com 02-Mar-04 1:22:23 PM >>> Not on the archives on my site. Just checked, and the scroll bars were there. Drew -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Bobby Heid Sent: Tuesday, March 02, 2004 7:52 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: [AccessD] Archives - no scroll bar Hey all, I was searching the archives for something and it had a lot of hits. But since there was no scroll bar, I had to press the tab key to move to each entry. I could not page down or use the mouse wheel either. This is in IE 6.0.28, windows 2k. Is this by design? Thanks, Bobby -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From DWUTKA at marlow.com Wed Mar 3 10:59:18 2004 From: DWUTKA at marlow.com (DWUTKA at marlow.com) Date: Wed, 3 Mar 2004 10:59:18 -0600 Subject: [AccessD] Access 97 Application Startup Message-ID: <2F8793082E00D4119A1700B0D0216BF802227928@main2.marlow.com> Token ring? Are you serious? That is more then likely an issue. Is your copy split BE and FE? Or are you using the 'full' database? That is definitely an issue for speed, by having the FE/BE shared. Do you have any startup code/forms? If you don't, and it just takes that long to open the .mdb itself (try holding shift down during opening, see if that makes a difference. If it does, then you have something running in the beginning.....), the only thing I could think of to optimize things, is if you have Access User Level security running, make sure to use a local .mdw for the user's FE, because that is one less thing Access has to access the network for. Token Ring is a very sluggish network process though, if I remember right, it literally goes 'round and round', looking for network messages to handle, instead of the self perpetuated methods of Ethernet and TCP/IP. Drew -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Barbara Ryan Sent: Wednesday, March 03, 2004 9:46 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access 97 Application Startup The application loads in 20 seconds on my computer. My client says the application takes 2 minutes to load on his machine, which is connected to 3 other computers via token ring (the backend database is shared). This morning, however, he said the app took 20 seconds to load, but nobody else was on the network. I don't think he uses Outlook, but I'll check. Barb ----- Original Message ----- From: "Eric Barro" To: "Access Developers discussion and problem solving" Sent: Wednesday, March 03, 2004 10:26 AM Subject: RE: [AccessD] Access 97 Application Startup > I'm going to assume that you are also running Outlook. If so check if Journal is activated. This often slows down loading Office apps. > > --- > Eric Barro > Senior Systems Analyst > Advanced Field Services > (208) 772-7060 > http://www.afsweb.com > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Barbara Ryan > Sent: Wednesday, March 03, 2004 7:17 AM > To: Access List > Subject: [AccessD] Access 97 Application Startup > > > What is actually happening "behind the scenes" when an Access 97 applications starts up? What are some things that would cause the same app to start up slower on one machine vs. another? Does anyone know of any good documentation of this on the web? > > Thanks, > Barb Ryan > > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > --- > Incoming mail is certified Virus Free. > Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). > Version: 6.0.593 / Virus Database: 376 - Release Date: 2/20/2004 > > --- > Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. > Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). > Version: 6.0.593 / Virus Database: 376 - Release Date: 2/20/2004 > > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From rl_stewart at highstream.net Wed Mar 3 11:04:05 2004 From: rl_stewart at highstream.net (Robert L. Stewart) Date: Wed, 03 Mar 2004 11:04:05 -0600 Subject: [AccessD] Re: Access 97 Application Startup In-Reply-To: <200403031654.i23GsaM21652@databaseadvisors.com> Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20040303110234.02ab5c28@pop3.highstream.net> Memory Operating System Number of Applications running Network card speed Hubs instead of a direct connect to the network Many things can influence the speed of the application. At 10:54 AM 3/3/2004 -0600, you wrote: >Date: Wed, 3 Mar 2004 10:16:49 -0500 >From: "Barbara Ryan" >Subject: [AccessD] Access 97 Application Startup >To: "Access List" >Message-ID: <005a01c40132$8cada7c0$0a00a8c0 at cx470148a> >Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" > >What is actually happening "behind the scenes" when an Access 97 >applications starts up? What are some things that would cause the same >app to start up slower on one machine vs. another? Does anyone know of >any good documentation of this on the web? > >Thanks, >Barb Ryan From gustav at cactus.dk Wed Mar 3 11:11:18 2004 From: gustav at cactus.dk (Gustav Brock) Date: Wed, 3 Mar 2004 18:11:18 +0100 Subject: [AccessD] notes on mdb bloat In-Reply-To: <3821148499.20040303150109@cactus.dk> References: <1047489135.8377.32.camel@sgsax-th4022c> <1128525026.20030312184542@cactus.dk> <1047496262.8435.182.camel@sgsax-th4022c> <3821148499.20040303150109@cactus.dk> Message-ID: <10932556874.20040303181118@cactus.dk> Hi all Does this - simplified - boil down to, that all row-level locking does compared to page-level locking is bloating a row to fill a page? /gustav > Hi Seth et all > In Garry Robinson's newsletter I noted this extremely interesting topic: > SINGLE RECORD LOCKING, BLOAT AND CITRIX BUGS > Did you know that the record-level locking option (menu > Tools~Options~Advanced) that is used by Access 2000 onwards has an > interesting twist. To achieve a single record lock, each record that > is locked uses up all of an Access page in the mdb file. This page of > data, most of which will probably be empty for records with only a few > fields, consumes 4000 bytes. This space is later recovered when the > database is compacted but if you have a database that seems to expand > fast, this could be your culprit. For more on this database bloat and > a possible cure for Access corruptions for Citrix head to this page. > http://ewbi.blogs.com/develops/2004/01/access_corrupti.html > and an other blog on the same topic > http://dbforums.com/arch/213/2002/10/551337 > Gary is here: > http://www.vb123.com/ > /gustav >> I hadn't even thought of that. I tried it just now, and the resulting >> mdb is 1.5MB. Still three times as big as the A97 version, but not as >> big as the base A2K version. >> The unicode comments make sense, I had forgotten about that, too. >> Oh well, more interesting info from the developer front... >> Seth >> On Wed, 2003-03-12 at 11:45, Gustav Brock wrote: >>> Hi Seth >>> >>> What happens if you "forward port" the A97 version to A2000? >>> >>> /gustav From john at winhaven.net Wed Mar 3 11:23:43 2004 From: john at winhaven.net (John Bartow) Date: Wed, 3 Mar 2004 11:23:43 -0600 Subject: [AccessD] Drew - Age of the Archives? In-Reply-To: <2F8793082E00D4119A1700B0D0216BF802227923@main2.marlow.com> Message-ID: Drew, Yes, it is an interesting timeline, I thought of a few of those things too! :o) Thanks, John -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of DWUTKA at marlow.com Sent: Wednesday, March 03, 2004 10:47 AM To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: RE: [AccessD] Drew - Age of the Archives? Hmmmm, let's work backwards. I know that the archives stopping archiving this past August/September (2003), because that's when I separated from Tammy. I know the archives started using the 'Memo Field Indexing' in April of 2003, because that is when my apartment caught fire. I know I moved the archives from Marlow to my home in early January of 2003, because my DSL company went bankrupt and pulled the plug on their network then. I have no clue when I actually 'started' the archives, other then a wild guess at about 6 months before I moved it home. So I would say July or August of 2002. Drew (Interesting timeline, eh?) -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of John Bartow Sent: Tuesday, March 02, 2004 9:00 PM To: _DBA-Access Subject: [AccessD] Drew - Age of the Archives? Drew, Someone recently asked me how long I have been on this list. The only point of reference I could think of was about two years before I sent all my archives to Drew! So, Do you know when you put the archives together on your site? John "My memory is 40 years ahead of it time (I have a like I'm over 80)" Bartow -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From john at winhaven.net Wed Mar 3 11:23:43 2004 From: john at winhaven.net (John Bartow) Date: Wed, 3 Mar 2004 11:23:43 -0600 Subject: [AccessD] notes on mdb bloat In-Reply-To: <10932556874.20040303181118@cactus.dk> Message-ID: Gustav, It would certainly seem that way. It appears, at first glance, to be a work-around solution to achieve row-level locking rather than a permanent, engine level solution. But it may have been done this way for Jet and backward compatibility issues. (?) John -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Gustav Brock Sent: Wednesday, March 03, 2004 11:11 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] notes on mdb bloat Hi all Does this - simplified - boil down to, that all row-level locking does compared to page-level locking is bloating a row to fill a page? /gustav > Hi Seth et all > In Garry Robinson's newsletter I noted this extremely interesting topic: > SINGLE RECORD LOCKING, BLOAT AND CITRIX BUGS > Did you know that the record-level locking option (menu > Tools~Options~Advanced) that is used by Access 2000 onwards has an > interesting twist. To achieve a single record lock, each record that > is locked uses up all of an Access page in the mdb file. This page of > data, most of which will probably be empty for records with only a few > fields, consumes 4000 bytes. This space is later recovered when the > database is compacted but if you have a database that seems to expand > fast, this could be your culprit. For more on this database bloat and > a possible cure for Access corruptions for Citrix head to this page. > http://ewbi.blogs.com/develops/2004/01/access_corrupti.html > and an other blog on the same topic > http://dbforums.com/arch/213/2002/10/551337 > Gary is here: > http://www.vb123.com/ > /gustav >> I hadn't even thought of that. I tried it just now, and the resulting >> mdb is 1.5MB. Still three times as big as the A97 version, but not as >> big as the base A2K version. >> The unicode comments make sense, I had forgotten about that, too. >> Oh well, more interesting info from the developer front... >> Seth >> On Wed, 2003-03-12 at 11:45, Gustav Brock wrote: >>> Hi Seth >>> >>> What happens if you "forward port" the A97 version to A2000? >>> >>> /gustav -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From KIsmert at TexasSystems.com Wed Mar 3 11:34:11 2004 From: KIsmert at TexasSystems.com (Ken Ismert) Date: Wed, 3 Mar 2004 11:34:11 -0600 Subject: [AccessD] A2K: Filtering a pick list In-Reply-To: <000e01c40111$3cf382c0$42669a89@DDICK> Message-ID: <007001c40145$bdd59980$2a3ca8c0@TEXASSYSTEMS.COM> I'm a man, who manufactures, who manufactures chairs. I'm a man who manufactures chairs and other wares. I'm a man, who manufactures! There is an efficient way to do this without building a custom WHERE clause. You need to make a WHERE clause for your original listbox query that works for every combination of combobox values. Take cboSuppliers, for example. You want it to restrict to a single Supplier when a value is selected, but show all Suppliers when no value (Null) is selected. A WHERE expression that does this is: WHERE Nz(tblChairs.SupplierID = [Forms]![frmChairs]![cboSuppliers], True) = True When cboSuppliers has a value, this will return chairs only for that SupplierID. When cboSuppliers is Null, the Nz function will return True for all SupplierIDs. (Value = Null returns Null in all instances.) So, your full WHERE clause would be: WHERE (Nz(tblChairs.SupplierID = [Forms]![frmChairs]![cboSuppliers], True) = True) AND (Nz(tblChairs.BackTypeID = [Forms]![frmChairs]![cboBackTypes], True) = True) AND (Nz(tblChairs.RangeID = [Forms]![frmChairs]![cboRanges], True) = True) AND (Nz(tblChairs.StyleID = [Forms]![frmChairs]![cboStyles], True) = True) In the AfterUpdate event of each combo, your code to implement couldn't be simpler: lstChairs.Requery You could also introduce a Clear button, which would reset your filter in its Click event: cboSuppliers.Value = Null cboBackTypes.Value = Null cboRanges.Value = Null cboStyles.Value = Null lstChairs.Requery You will find this faster than forcing the listbox or subform to parse the RowSource SQL every time a filter combobox changes. This works well even for large tables, as long as the fields you are filtering on are properly indexed. Note that this technique works best for fields that do not allow nulls, like keys. With slight modifications, you can get it to work for nullable fields. Plus, for subforms, you have the advantage of allowing the user to filter the subform themselves, since you are not using the form's Filter property. This has saved me from having to recode a form because someone wanted a custom way of looking at the data. -Ken (my apologies to Mister Rogers) -----Original Message----- From: Darren DICK [mailto:d.dick at uws.edu.au] Sent: Wednesday, March 03, 2004 5:17 AM To: AccessD List Subject: [AccessD] A2K: Filtering a pick list Hello all I have a very large list box that lists all the products (in this case chairs) in a db Each chair in tblChairs has many fields but in this case the ones I am interested in are ChairID, SupplierID, BackTypeID, RangeID, StyleID So on the same form as this very large list box of chairs, I have combo boxes - yep you guessed it - 4 of 'em - cboSuppliers, cboBackTypes, cboRanges, cboStyleID I wanna filter the large list box based on the values in all or any combination of the combo boxes. EG Say supplier 5 = Acme Manufacturing and in the whole dB there are 100 chairs made by Acme Say of that 100 that Acme produce 38 of em have a Backtype of 2 (as in Low =1 medium=2 High=3 etc) I would want the large list to instantly decrease to 100 items if I selected Acme from the Suppliers combo. Then I would want that list to further decreas to 38 when I choose Medium back PSUEDo = show me evert chair in the dB with supplier ID = 5 and BackType = 2 etc etc and then somehow accept the various combinations of combo choices. Is there a clever or easy way of doing this without writing a zillion sql's then selecting the correct one and making it the listbox row source? Many thanks in advance Darren From jimdettman at earthlink.net Wed Mar 3 11:40:47 2004 From: jimdettman at earthlink.net (Jim Dettman) Date: Wed, 3 Mar 2004 12:40:47 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] notes on mdb bloat In-Reply-To: <10932556874.20040303181118@cactus.dk> Message-ID: Gustav, My guess would be no. Note that Garry mentions that it stays bloated until compact. That doesn't make sense. If the record locking algorithm can work after the database is compacted, then why would it have to bloat it in the first place? It just doesn't make sense from that standpoint. It does make sense though as to how they could achieve it with little problem, as they are just duplicating a technique that many developers used to get pseudo record level locking. It would be a simple matter to change the add logic to always use an empty page (they in part had already done that for JET 3.5). So there's another reason why it's probably not that; if it were that simple (one record per page), then why did we need a new version of JET? Seems like something they could have put in A95 or A97 quite easily. With no docs, it's all guess work though. Jim Dettman President, Online Computer Services of WNY, Inc. (315) 699-3443 jimdettman at earthlink.net -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Gustav Brock Sent: Wednesday, March 03, 2004 12:11 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] notes on mdb bloat Hi all Does this - simplified - boil down to, that all row-level locking does compared to page-level locking is bloating a row to fill a page? /gustav > Hi Seth et all > In Garry Robinson's newsletter I noted this extremely interesting topic: > SINGLE RECORD LOCKING, BLOAT AND CITRIX BUGS > Did you know that the record-level locking option (menu > Tools~Options~Advanced) that is used by Access 2000 onwards has an > interesting twist. To achieve a single record lock, each record that > is locked uses up all of an Access page in the mdb file. This page of > data, most of which will probably be empty for records with only a few > fields, consumes 4000 bytes. This space is later recovered when the > database is compacted but if you have a database that seems to expand > fast, this could be your culprit. For more on this database bloat and > a possible cure for Access corruptions for Citrix head to this page. > http://ewbi.blogs.com/develops/2004/01/access_corrupti.html > and an other blog on the same topic > http://dbforums.com/arch/213/2002/10/551337 > Gary is here: > http://www.vb123.com/ > /gustav >> I hadn't even thought of that. I tried it just now, and the resulting >> mdb is 1.5MB. Still three times as big as the A97 version, but not as >> big as the base A2K version. >> The unicode comments make sense, I had forgotten about that, too. >> Oh well, more interesting info from the developer front... >> Seth >> On Wed, 2003-03-12 at 11:45, Gustav Brock wrote: >>> Hi Seth >>> >>> What happens if you "forward port" the A97 version to A2000? >>> >>> /gustav -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From DWUTKA at marlow.com Wed Mar 3 11:47:14 2004 From: DWUTKA at marlow.com (DWUTKA at marlow.com) Date: Wed, 3 Mar 2004 11:47:14 -0600 Subject: [AccessD] Drew - Age of the Archives? Message-ID: <2F8793082E00D4119A1700B0D0216BF802227929@main2.marlow.com> I actually gave a presentation on the 'indexing' capabilities I built for the archives last month. After my track record with major changes/updates to the archives, I was just a little leary to give that presentation....go figure! Drew -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of John Bartow Sent: Wednesday, March 03, 2004 11:24 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] Drew - Age of the Archives? Drew, Yes, it is an interesting timeline, I thought of a few of those things too! :o) Thanks, John -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of DWUTKA at marlow.com Sent: Wednesday, March 03, 2004 10:47 AM To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: RE: [AccessD] Drew - Age of the Archives? Hmmmm, let's work backwards. I know that the archives stopping archiving this past August/September (2003), because that's when I separated from Tammy. I know the archives started using the 'Memo Field Indexing' in April of 2003, because that is when my apartment caught fire. I know I moved the archives from Marlow to my home in early January of 2003, because my DSL company went bankrupt and pulled the plug on their network then. I have no clue when I actually 'started' the archives, other then a wild guess at about 6 months before I moved it home. So I would say July or August of 2002. Drew (Interesting timeline, eh?) -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of John Bartow Sent: Tuesday, March 02, 2004 9:00 PM To: _DBA-Access Subject: [AccessD] Drew - Age of the Archives? Drew, Someone recently asked me how long I have been on this list. The only point of reference I could think of was about two years before I sent all my archives to Drew! So, Do you know when you put the archives together on your site? John "My memory is 40 years ahead of it time (I have a like I'm over 80)" Bartow -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From gustav at cactus.dk Wed Mar 3 12:06:58 2004 From: gustav at cactus.dk (Gustav Brock) Date: Wed, 3 Mar 2004 19:06:58 +0100 Subject: [AccessD] notes on mdb bloat In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <335897577.20040303190658@cactus.dk> Hi Jim > My guess would be no. Note that Garry mentions that it stays bloated > until compact. That doesn't make sense. If the record locking algorithm > can work after the database is compacted, then why would it have to bloat it > in the first place? It just doesn't make sense from that standpoint. It could if you assume that - after compacting, when a record is opened for editing - it will be copied as a new and saved while the old is marked as deleted. But as you say, just guessing. > It does make sense though as to how they could achieve it with little > problem, as they are just duplicating a technique that many developers used > to get pseudo record level locking. It would be a simple matter to change > the add logic to always use an empty page (they in part had already done > that for JET 3.5). > So there's another reason why it's probably not that; if it were that > simple (one record per page), then why did we need a new version of JET? > Seems like something they could have put in A95 or A97 quite easily. Well, the implementation is slightly more complicated than bloating a row to fill a page. If I understand the article(s), the revised Jet engine maintains a flag which is set when any user requests row-level locking which forces subsequent users also to use row-level locking even if their default setting was for page-level locking. > With no docs, it's all guess work though. Yes, true. However, experimenting with this while watching the mdb file with an hex viewer/editor could tell a lot. I have neither the time nor the need for this, though ... /gustav > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Gustav Brock > Sent: Wednesday, March 03, 2004 12:11 PM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: Re: [AccessD] notes on mdb bloat > Hi all > Does this - simplified - boil down to, that all row-level locking does > compared to page-level locking is bloating a row to fill a page? > /gustav >> Hi Seth et all >> In Garry Robinson's newsletter I noted this extremely interesting topic: >> SINGLE RECORD LOCKING, BLOAT AND CITRIX BUGS >> Did you know that the record-level locking option (menu >> Tools~Options~Advanced) that is used by Access 2000 onwards has an >> interesting twist. To achieve a single record lock, each record that >> is locked uses up all of an Access page in the mdb file. This page of >> data, most of which will probably be empty for records with only a few >> fields, consumes 4000 bytes. This space is later recovered when the >> database is compacted but if you have a database that seems to expand >> fast, this could be your culprit. For more on this database bloat and >> a possible cure for Access corruptions for Citrix head to this page. >> http://ewbi.blogs.com/develops/2004/01/access_corrupti.html >> and an other blog on the same topic >> http://dbforums.com/arch/213/2002/10/551337 >> Gary is here: >> http://www.vb123.com/ >> /gustav >>> I hadn't even thought of that. I tried it just now, and the resulting >>> mdb is 1.5MB. Still three times as big as the A97 version, but not as >>> big as the base A2K version. >>> The unicode comments make sense, I had forgotten about that, too. >>> Oh well, more interesting info from the developer front... >>> Seth >>> On Wed, 2003-03-12 at 11:45, Gustav Brock wrote: >>>> Hi Seth >>>> >>>> What happens if you "forward port" the A97 version to A2000? >>>> >>>> /gustav From rl_stewart at highstream.net Wed Mar 3 12:16:39 2004 From: rl_stewart at highstream.net (Robert L. Stewart) Date: Wed, 03 Mar 2004 12:16:39 -0600 Subject: [AccessD] Re: Access 97 Application Startup In-Reply-To: <200403031654.i23GsaM21652@databaseadvisors.com> Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20040303121445.02ab7560@pop3.highstream.net> Barb, Is the token ring running at 4 or 12 mps? Token ring also has a lot of drivers loaded into memory especially if it is access an AS/400 machine. Which OS is he/you running? How many other programs are running when he does this? Robert At 10:54 AM 3/3/2004 -0600, you wrote: >Date: Wed, 3 Mar 2004 10:46:27 -0500 >From: "Barbara Ryan" >Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access 97 Application Startup >To: "Access Developers discussion and problem solving" > >Message-ID: <008601c40136$b0bdb160$0a00a8c0 at cx470148a> >Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" > >The application loads in 20 seconds on my computer. My client says the >application takes 2 minutes to load on his machine, which is connected to 3 >other computers via token ring (the backend database is shared). This >morning, however, he said the app took 20 seconds to load, but nobody else >was on the network. > >I don't think he uses Outlook, but I'll check. > >Barb From BarbaraRyan at cox.net Wed Mar 3 12:44:03 2004 From: BarbaraRyan at cox.net (Barbara Ryan) Date: Wed, 3 Mar 2004 13:44:03 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Re: Access 97 Application Startup References: <5.1.0.14.2.20040303121445.02ab7560@pop3.highstream.net> Message-ID: <002601c4014f$7ff010a0$0a00a8c0@cx470148a> I will need to check on the token ring speed. I am running on W98, and he has XP. Thanks, Barb ----- Original Message ----- From: "Robert L. Stewart" To: Sent: Wednesday, March 03, 2004 1:16 PM Subject: [AccessD] Re: Access 97 Application Startup > Barb, > > Is the token ring running at 4 or 12 mps? > Token ring also has a lot of drivers loaded into memory > especially if it is access an AS/400 machine. > > Which OS is he/you running? > > How many other programs are running when he does this? > > Robert > > At 10:54 AM 3/3/2004 -0600, you wrote: > >Date: Wed, 3 Mar 2004 10:46:27 -0500 > >From: "Barbara Ryan" > >Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access 97 Application Startup > >To: "Access Developers discussion and problem solving" > > > >Message-ID: <008601c40136$b0bdb160$0a00a8c0 at cx470148a> > >Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" > > > >The application loads in 20 seconds on my computer. My client says the > >application takes 2 minutes to load on his machine, which is connected to 3 > >other computers via token ring (the backend database is shared). This > >morning, however, he said the app took 20 seconds to load, but nobody else > >was on the network. > > > >I don't think he uses Outlook, but I'll check. > > > >Barb > > > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From martyconnelly at shaw.ca Wed Mar 3 13:24:56 2004 From: martyconnelly at shaw.ca (MartyConnelly) Date: Wed, 03 Mar 2004 11:24:56 -0800 Subject: AW: [AccessD] Database Operation from Remote Sites References: Message-ID: <40463108.5000300@shaw.ca> Have a look at this free software site, lots of help and tutorials http://www.genericdb.com It works as a basic ASP config page (setup database connection string,etc) then you run a series of asp wizards to view your database tables. and create your need asp pages. It has an added benefit It is multilingual. Helmut Kotsch wrote: >Good morning, >where could I find a sample / demo for the ASP approach? > >Regards Helmut Kotsch > >-----Urspr?ngliche Nachricht----- >Von: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com >[mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]Im Auftrag von >DWUTKA at marlow.com >Gesendet: Mittwoch, 11. Februar 2004 02:43 >An: accessd at databaseadvisors.com >Betreff: RE: [AccessD] Database Operation from Remote Sites > > >ASP is a very good approach for multi-site systems. The real question is >how complex is the data entry? If you are only talking about a few forms, >then ASP is the way to go. Have Site1 host the ASP pages, with the db on >their network. That would allow for no modifications necessary for the data >mining process. > >However, if the data entry is very complex, you may want to go with a >Citrix/TS approach. More costly to initially implement, but no real >'development' would be required. > >Drew > >-----Original Message----- >From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com >[mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of MACE, Terry >Sent: Tuesday, February 10, 2004 6:41 PM >To: 'AccessD at databaseadvisors.com' >Subject: [AccessD] Database Operation from Remote Sites > > >Hi all, > >I'm after some information on the best way to proceed with the expansion of >an existing Access97 database application which is used for maintenance >activity recording. > >My company currently runs this database at two sites, call them Site1 and >Site2. The BE is changed at Site2 as a function of its operations, each >night the BE is copied to Site1 where it is used for admin and data mining >purposes with the data acknowledged as being up to 24hrs out of date. This >has served the company well up to now as only one site can change the data. > >The company now want to expand the number of sites that use and i/p data. > >The new layout will have at least 4 sites. Site1 will be the admin and data >mining centre, Site2, 3, and 4 will i/p and change data. Sites 1, 2, and 3 >are on a WAN with Site3 being the companies main site and hosting the >companies Internet gateway. Site4 is overseas and not on the WAN. > >What I would like is some idea of the best approach - I have read a bit >about replication and ASP but have no practical experience with either. > >Thanks for any assistance. > > >Terry Mace >Logistic Support Officer & Maintenance Supervisor >BAE SYSTEMS >677 Victoria Street, >Abbotsford, VIC 3067 >Ph: +61 3 9208 0924 >Fax: +61 3 9208 0588 >Mailto: terry.mace at baesystems.com > > > > -- Marty Connelly Victoria, B.C. Canada From bchacc at san.rr.com Wed Mar 3 13:58:29 2004 From: bchacc at san.rr.com (Rocky Smolin - Beach Access Software) Date: Wed, 3 Mar 2004 11:58:29 -0800 Subject: [AccessD] Deployment References: <006901c40137$fc4cb0d0$6801a8c0@HAL9002> <003d01c4013a$ee518f70$6101a8c0@dejpolsys> <009401c4013e$bd2b7b00$6801a8c0@HAL9002> <001c01c40140$1b47c6c0$6101a8c0@dejpolsys> Message-ID: <015b01c40159$e5fc70a0$6801a8c0@HAL9002> And when you use it how big is the file? Rocky ----- Original Message ----- From: "William Hindman" To: "Access Developers discussion and problem solving" Sent: Wednesday, March 03, 2004 8:53 AM Subject: Re: [AccessD] Deployment > ...yeah, you need the ODE for XP ...but you can pick that up on e-bay pretty > cheap now ...but you need that whether you use wise/sagekey or the ODE > packaging wizard ...iirc the ODE has the runtime distribution license, not > the Office Pro pkg. > > William Hindman "My idea of an agreeable person is a person who agrees with > me." Disraeli > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Rocky Smolin - Beach Access Software" > To: "Access Developers discussion and problem solving" > > Sent: Wednesday, March 03, 2004 11:44 AM > Subject: Re: [AccessD] Deployment > > > > William: > > > > What's the overhead? How big is the package net of the mdb or mde itself? > > > > Did you have to buy a developer's license for AXP? > > > > Rocky > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: "William Hindman" > > To: "Access Developers discussion and problem solving" > > > > Sent: Wednesday, March 03, 2004 8:16 AM > > Subject: Re: [AccessD] Deployment > > > > > > > ...can't speak to 2000 but the deployment package in AXP was head over > > heels > > > better than the A97 version ...I've deployed more than a hundred AXP > > > runtimes with it without a hiccup ...hth :) > > > > > > William Hindman "My idea of an agreeable person is a person who agrees > > with > > > me." Disraeli > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > From: "Rocky Smolin - Beach Access Software" > > > To: > > > Sent: Wednesday, March 03, 2004 10:55 AM > > > Subject: [AccessD] Deployment > > > > > > > > > Dear List: > > > > > > I've got an app I'm developing for the consumer market and we're in beta > > > testing now. It's in A2K so all the betas have to have Access. > > > > > > Eventually it will have to be packaged as a run-time. But at that point > it > > > will be shrink-wrapped. > > > > > > In the short term we could expand our beta testing universe with a > > run-time. > > > So I'm trying to figure out the best way to do this. > > > > > > The problem AFAIK with the run-times is their size. Right now we can > > email > > > the mde to a beta tester and it's about 3-4MB. If I put up a run-time > on > > my > > > web site, beta testers are not likely to know how to do an FTP program. > > > > > > I suppose I could make a password protected folder on my web site, and > get > > > my web site developer to make the run-time downloadable or installable > > from > > > the site. I don't know how to do this. Maybe she does. > > > > > > I've got A97 developer's edition, Wise Installer, and the Sagekey script > > for > > > A97. But I don't think that the app can be converted back to A97. In > any > > > event, the total A97/Wise/Sagekey package runs to about 70MB IIRC. > > > > > > I could buy A2002 or A2003 if they've got a better deployment capability > > > than they've had in the past. > > > > > > What are your recommendations, suggestions, thoughts? > > > > > > Thanks in advance, > > > > > > Rocky Smolin > > > Beach Access Software > > > -- > > > _______________________________________________ > > > AccessD mailing list > > > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > > > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > > > > > > -- > > > _______________________________________________ > > > AccessD mailing list > > > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > > > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > > > > -- > > _______________________________________________ > > AccessD mailing list > > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > From my.lists at verizon.net Wed Mar 3 14:04:21 2004 From: my.lists at verizon.net (Francisco H Tapia) Date: Wed, 03 Mar 2004 12:04:21 -0800 Subject: [AccessD] Continous form based off a recordset In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <40463A45.2080509@verizon.net> maybe your mis-remembering right :D according to the doc's any ado (for adp) which derives from sqlserver is updatable in forms, and in an mdb, if it derives from access it is updatable, otherwise not... to side step the problem I dumped into an mdb w/ passthrough queries... now the question in mind is... How would you or someone: Launch the form in a 2nd MDB that is NOT linked?.. or does it need to become linked? (refrences) A sticking point is that the final adp is converted to an ADE, so I'd have to convert the MDB to MDE, which just bites.. :( anyone have code to automate that part ;o) Charlotte Foust wrote: >I didn't think forms bound to an ADO recordset were updateable in 2000 >period, MDB or ADP. Am I misremembering? > >Charlotte Foust > >-----Original Message----- >From: Francisco H Tapia [mailto:my.lists at verizon.net] >Sent: Wednesday, March 03, 2004 2:24 AM >To: AccessD >Subject: [AccessD] Continous form based off a recordset > > > >bottom line (SqlServer2000 + Access 2000 ADP) > >have a recordset in an ADP.. the data is from SqlServer and i've been >looking at the code all day (march 2) till now Mar3rd at 2am.... > >it's a sproc that joins across a udf and some subqueries... bottom line >Access doesn't see this as an updatable recordset... so I created a 2nd >sproc that takes these parameters and dumps it to a #tempTable > >however this sproc is still NOT updatable :( wtf! ... so.. > >I dimmed my variable RS as an adorecordset but still I get issues >because even if I create a disconnected RS, it cannot be bound to the >form unless I push the activeconnection property to it which then gives >me other issues >well it's 230am (practically) and i'm probably gonna crash now due to >exhaustion but if anyone can make sense and wants to drop me a line, >thanks I appreciate it... :D > > -- -Francisco From markamatte at hotmail.com Wed Mar 3 14:12:42 2004 From: markamatte at hotmail.com (Mark A Matte) Date: Wed, 03 Mar 2004 20:12:42 +0000 Subject: [AccessD] A2K: Filtering a pick list Message-ID: Hello All, I use something for a few dbs to allow the user to use search criteria on multiple fields...the can use just 1 or all 5...this technique could be used to filter a combo box... Lets say I have 4 dropdowns that I want to use as criteria for the main dropdown...I would create the following fields on my form: Drop1 Drop2 Drop3 Drop4 MainDrop Drop1Wild Drop2Wild Drop3Wild Drop4Wild All 'Wild' fields will be hidden and default value = '*' On the AFTERUPDATE of the Drop1-4...populate the corresponding 'wild'...Ex: ***** Dim Drop1Wild Drop1Wild= Me!Drop1.Text & Chr(42) Me!Drop1Wild= Drop1Wild Me!MainDrop.Requery ***** Then on my ROW SOURCE of MainDrop I would use something like: ******** SELECT DISTINCTROW tblChair.ID FROM tblChair WHERE (((tblChair.Drop1) Like [Forms]![frmPickChair]![Drop1Wild]) AND ((tblChair.Drop2) Like [Forms]![frmPickChair]![Drop2Wild]) AND ((tblChair.Drop3) Like [Forms]![frmPickChair]![Drop3Wild]) AND ((tblChair.Drop4) Like [Forms]![frmPickChair]![Drop4Wild]) ORDER BY tblChair.ID; ******* This will will allow them to use any combination of the other dropdowns you provided...and even if they remove a value they entered...the sql will see it as just a wildcard... I'm sure, as always, there is a simpler/better way...but it works for me. Hope it helps... Thanks, Mark A. Matte >From: "Ken Ismert" >Reply-To: Access Developers discussion and problem >solving >To: "'Access Developers discussion and problem >solving'" >Subject: RE: [AccessD] A2K: Filtering a pick list >Date: Wed, 3 Mar 2004 11:34:11 -0600 > > > I'm a man, who manufactures, > who manufactures chairs. > I'm a man who manufactures > chairs and other wares. > I'm a man, who manufactures! > >There is an efficient way to do this without building a custom WHERE >clause. >You need to make a WHERE clause for your original listbox query that works >for every combination of combobox values. > >Take cboSuppliers, for example. You want it to restrict to a single >Supplier >when a value is selected, but show all Suppliers when no value (Null) is >selected. A WHERE expression that does this is: > WHERE Nz(tblChairs.SupplierID = [Forms]![frmChairs]![cboSuppliers], >True) >= True > >When cboSuppliers has a value, this will return chairs only for that >SupplierID. When cboSuppliers is Null, the Nz function will return True for >all SupplierIDs. (Value = Null returns Null in all instances.) > >So, your full WHERE clause would be: > WHERE (Nz(tblChairs.SupplierID = [Forms]![frmChairs]![cboSuppliers], >True) >= True) > AND (Nz(tblChairs.BackTypeID = [Forms]![frmChairs]![cboBackTypes], >True) >= True) > AND (Nz(tblChairs.RangeID = [Forms]![frmChairs]![cboRanges], True) = >True) > AND (Nz(tblChairs.StyleID = [Forms]![frmChairs]![cboStyles], True) = >True) > >In the AfterUpdate event of each combo, your code to implement couldn't be >simpler: > lstChairs.Requery > >You could also introduce a Clear button, which would reset your filter in >its Click event: > cboSuppliers.Value = Null > cboBackTypes.Value = Null > cboRanges.Value = Null > cboStyles.Value = Null > lstChairs.Requery > >You will find this faster than forcing the listbox or subform to parse the >RowSource SQL every time a filter combobox changes. This works well even >for >large tables, as long as the fields you are filtering on are properly >indexed. > >Note that this technique works best for fields that do not allow nulls, >like >keys. With slight modifications, you can get it to work for nullable >fields. > >Plus, for subforms, you have the advantage of allowing the user to filter >the subform themselves, since you are not using the form's Filter property. >This has saved me from having to recode a form because someone wanted a >custom way of looking at the data. > >-Ken > >(my apologies to Mister Rogers) > > >-----Original Message----- >From: Darren DICK [mailto:d.dick at uws.edu.au] >Sent: Wednesday, March 03, 2004 5:17 AM >To: AccessD List >Subject: [AccessD] A2K: Filtering a pick list > > >Hello all >I have a very large list box that lists all the products (in this case >chairs) in a db >Each chair in tblChairs has many fields but in this case the ones I am >interested >in are ChairID, SupplierID, BackTypeID, RangeID, StyleID > >So on the same form as this very large list box of chairs, I have combo >boxes - >yep you guessed it - 4 of 'em - cboSuppliers, cboBackTypes, cboRanges, >cboStyleID > >I wanna filter the large list box based on the values in all or any >combination of the combo boxes. > >EG >Say supplier 5 = Acme Manufacturing and in the whole dB there are 100 >chairs >made by Acme >Say of that 100 that Acme produce 38 of em have a Backtype of 2 (as in Low >=1 medium=2 High=3 etc) > >I would want the large list to instantly decrease to 100 items if I >selected >Acme from the Suppliers combo. >Then I would want that list to further decreas to 38 when I choose Medium >back >PSUEDo = show me evert chair in the dB with supplier ID = 5 and BackType = >2 >etc etc and then somehow accept the various combinations of combo choices. > >Is there a clever or easy way of doing this without writing a zillion sql's >then selecting the correct one >and making it the listbox row source? > >Many thanks in advance > >Darren > > > > >-- >_______________________________________________ >AccessD mailing list >AccessD at databaseadvisors.com >http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd >Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com _________________________________________________________________ Get a FREE online computer virus scan from McAfee when you click here. http://clinic.mcafee.com/clinic/ibuy/campaign.asp?cid=3963 From wdhindman at bellsouth.net Wed Mar 3 15:22:33 2004 From: wdhindman at bellsouth.net (William Hindman) Date: Wed, 3 Mar 2004 16:22:33 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] notes on mdb bloat References: <335897577.20040303190658@cactus.dk> Message-ID: <006001c40165$a4826470$6101a8c0@dejpolsys> ...where is Jurgen when we need him? ...this is right up his alley :( William Hindman "My idea of an agreeable person is a person who agrees with me." Disraeli ----- Original Message ----- From: "Gustav Brock" To: "Access Developers discussion and problem solving" Sent: Wednesday, March 03, 2004 1:06 PM Subject: Re: [AccessD] notes on mdb bloat > Hi Jim > > > My guess would be no. Note that Garry mentions that it stays bloated > > until compact. That doesn't make sense. If the record locking algorithm > > can work after the database is compacted, then why would it have to bloat it > > in the first place? It just doesn't make sense from that standpoint. > > It could if you assume that - after compacting, when a record is opened > for editing - it will be copied as a new and saved while the old is > marked as deleted. But as you say, just guessing. > > > It does make sense though as to how they could achieve it with little > > problem, as they are just duplicating a technique that many developers used > > to get pseudo record level locking. It would be a simple matter to change > > the add logic to always use an empty page (they in part had already done > > that for JET 3.5). > > > So there's another reason why it's probably not that; if it were that > > simple (one record per page), then why did we need a new version of JET? > > Seems like something they could have put in A95 or A97 quite easily. > > Well, the implementation is slightly more complicated than bloating a > row to fill a page. If I understand the article(s), the revised Jet > engine maintains a flag which is set when any user requests row-level > locking which forces subsequent users also to use row-level locking > even if their default setting was for page-level locking. > > > With no docs, it's all guess work though. > > Yes, true. However, experimenting with this while watching the mdb file > with an hex viewer/editor could tell a lot. I have neither the time > nor the need for this, though ... > > /gustav > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Gustav Brock > > Sent: Wednesday, March 03, 2004 12:11 PM > > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > > Subject: Re: [AccessD] notes on mdb bloat > > > > Hi all > > > Does this - simplified - boil down to, that all row-level locking does > > compared to page-level locking is bloating a row to fill a page? > > > /gustav > > > >> Hi Seth et all > > >> In Garry Robinson's newsletter I noted this extremely interesting topic: > > > >> SINGLE RECORD LOCKING, BLOAT AND CITRIX BUGS > > >> Did you know that the record-level locking option (menu > >> Tools~Options~Advanced) that is used by Access 2000 onwards has an > >> interesting twist. To achieve a single record lock, each record that > >> is locked uses up all of an Access page in the mdb file. This page of > >> data, most of which will probably be empty for records with only a few > >> fields, consumes 4000 bytes. This space is later recovered when the > >> database is compacted but if you have a database that seems to expand > >> fast, this could be your culprit. For more on this database bloat and > >> a possible cure for Access corruptions for Citrix head to this page. > > >> http://ewbi.blogs.com/develops/2004/01/access_corrupti.html > > >> and an other blog on the same topic > >> http://dbforums.com/arch/213/2002/10/551337 > > >> Gary is here: > > >> http://www.vb123.com/ > > >> /gustav > > > >>> I hadn't even thought of that. I tried it just now, and the resulting > >>> mdb is 1.5MB. Still three times as big as the A97 version, but not as > >>> big as the base A2K version. > > >>> The unicode comments make sense, I had forgotten about that, too. > > >>> Oh well, more interesting info from the developer front... > > >>> Seth > > >>> On Wed, 2003-03-12 at 11:45, Gustav Brock wrote: > >>>> Hi Seth > >>>> > >>>> What happens if you "forward port" the A97 version to A2000? > >>>> > >>>> /gustav > > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > From wdhindman at bellsouth.net Wed Mar 3 15:26:02 2004 From: wdhindman at bellsouth.net (William Hindman) Date: Wed, 3 Mar 2004 16:26:02 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Deployment References: <006901c40137$fc4cb0d0$6801a8c0@HAL9002><003d01c4013a$ee518f70$6101a8c0@dejpolsys><009401c4013e$bd2b7b00$6801a8c0@HAL9002><001c01c40140$1b47c6c0$6101a8c0@dejpolsys> <015b01c40159$e5fc70a0$6801a8c0@HAL9002> Message-ID: <006601c40166$212f5aa0$6101a8c0@dejpolsys> ...total is more than 50mb ...plus your app mdb/mde. :( William Hindman "My idea of an agreeable person is a person who agrees with me." Disraeli ----- Original Message ----- From: "Rocky Smolin - Beach Access Software" To: "Access Developers discussion and problem solving" Sent: Wednesday, March 03, 2004 2:58 PM Subject: Re: [AccessD] Deployment > And when you use it how big is the file? > > Rocky > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "William Hindman" > To: "Access Developers discussion and problem solving" > > Sent: Wednesday, March 03, 2004 8:53 AM > Subject: Re: [AccessD] Deployment > > > > ...yeah, you need the ODE for XP ...but you can pick that up on e-bay > pretty > > cheap now ...but you need that whether you use wise/sagekey or the ODE > > packaging wizard ...iirc the ODE has the runtime distribution license, not > > the Office Pro pkg. > > > > William Hindman "My idea of an agreeable person is a person who agrees > with > > me." Disraeli > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: "Rocky Smolin - Beach Access Software" > > To: "Access Developers discussion and problem solving" > > > > Sent: Wednesday, March 03, 2004 11:44 AM > > Subject: Re: [AccessD] Deployment > > > > > > > William: > > > > > > What's the overhead? How big is the package net of the mdb or mde > itself? > > > > > > Did you have to buy a developer's license for AXP? > > > > > > Rocky > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > From: "William Hindman" > > > To: "Access Developers discussion and problem solving" > > > > > > Sent: Wednesday, March 03, 2004 8:16 AM > > > Subject: Re: [AccessD] Deployment > > > > > > > > > > ...can't speak to 2000 but the deployment package in AXP was head over > > > heels > > > > better than the A97 version ...I've deployed more than a hundred AXP > > > > runtimes with it without a hiccup ...hth :) > > > > > > > > William Hindman "My idea of an agreeable person is a person who agrees > > > with > > > > me." Disraeli > > > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > > From: "Rocky Smolin - Beach Access Software" > > > > To: > > > > Sent: Wednesday, March 03, 2004 10:55 AM > > > > Subject: [AccessD] Deployment > > > > > > > > > > > > Dear List: > > > > > > > > I've got an app I'm developing for the consumer market and we're in > beta > > > > testing now. It's in A2K so all the betas have to have Access. > > > > > > > > Eventually it will have to be packaged as a run-time. But at that > point > > it > > > > will be shrink-wrapped. > > > > > > > > In the short term we could expand our beta testing universe with a > > > run-time. > > > > So I'm trying to figure out the best way to do this. > > > > > > > > The problem AFAIK with the run-times is their size. Right now we can > > > email > > > > the mde to a beta tester and it's about 3-4MB. If I put up a run-time > > on > > > my > > > > web site, beta testers are not likely to know how to do an FTP > program. > > > > > > > > I suppose I could make a password protected folder on my web site, and > > get > > > > my web site developer to make the run-time downloadable or installable > > > from > > > > the site. I don't know how to do this. Maybe she does. > > > > > > > > I've got A97 developer's edition, Wise Installer, and the Sagekey > script > > > for > > > > A97. But I don't think that the app can be converted back to A97. In > > any > > > > event, the total A97/Wise/Sagekey package runs to about 70MB IIRC. > > > > > > > > I could buy A2002 or A2003 if they've got a better deployment > capability > > > > than they've had in the past. > > > > > > > > What are your recommendations, suggestions, thoughts? > > > > > > > > Thanks in advance, > > > > > > > > Rocky Smolin > > > > Beach Access Software > > > > -- > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > > AccessD mailing list > > > > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > > > > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > > > > > > > > > -- > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > > AccessD mailing list > > > > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > > > > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > > > > > > > -- > > > _______________________________________________ > > > AccessD mailing list > > > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > > > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > > > > > > -- > > _______________________________________________ > > AccessD mailing list > > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > From HollisVJ at pgdp.usec.com Wed Mar 3 15:29:24 2004 From: HollisVJ at pgdp.usec.com (Hollis,Virginia) Date: Wed, 03 Mar 2004 15:29:24 -0600 Subject: [AccessD] Add All to List Message-ID: <618EB4D6DDCDD3119B0A00508B6FD37A0CB0D226@cntexchange.pgdp.usec.com> I don't know what I am doing wrong.... The all shows at the top of the list, but All the records do not show on the subform. The combobox is still showing the first record when it opens and the subform is filtered for that record. What makes the All part of "ALL" in the combo box work? Virginia -----Original Message----- From: William Hindman [mailto:wdhindman at bellsouth.net] Sent: Wednesday, March 03, 2004 8:09 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Add All to List Virginia ...use a UNION SELECT in the combo record source to add an ALL. ...example: SELECT DISTINCTROW Customers.Company, Customers.[Customer Number] FROM Customers UNION SELECT "","" FROM Customers ORDER BY Customers.Company; William Hindman "My idea of an agreeable person is a person who agrees with me." Disraeli ----- Original Message ----- From: "Hollis,Virginia" To: Sent: Wednesday, March 03, 2004 8:45 AM Subject: [AccessD] Add All to List > How do you add All to List? This form contains 2 combo boxes on a main form. > Selecting data shows data on a subform for the related combo box choices. > > I need to either have an All in the combo boxes or when the form opens, I > would like them to be blank. > > I tried this code in the On Open of the main form, but it still opens to > the first record with entries in both combo boxes. > > With Me > .cboNCSANo = "" > .cboProcedure = "" > End With > > Virginia > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From bruce_bruen at mlc.com.au Wed Mar 3 15:46:46 2004 From: bruce_bruen at mlc.com.au (bruce_bruen at mlc.com.au) Date: Thu, 4 Mar 2004 08:46:46 +1100 Subject: [AccessD] Re: Create scripts: CreateTable? Message-ID: Sander, I dont know where you could find it but the tool you need is called "Table Code Creator" - tbcc???.mda that used to be around for A97. You will need to update the code to suit later versions. I think it was a MS download but it could have been from (memory fails me guys! - where did the list used to live???)... Bruce S D To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Sent by: accessd-bounces at databasea cc: dvisors.com Subject: RE: [AccessD] Re: Create scripts: CreateTable? 04/03/2004 00:13 Please respond to Access Developers discussion and problem solving thnx for the replies. History: I work for company A and I'm stationed at Customer B. I'm hired by Customer B to develop stuff. Customer B has also hired company C to implement/migrate changes. Company C has a rule that they ONLY use scripts to implement/migrate changes that can be run by 'ZERO-KNOWLEDGE-USERS'!! That is why I need a piece of code to generate CreateTable scripts. I need this piece of code in Access 2000. if anybody neesd any more info don't hesitate to ask. Regards, Sander Developer wrote: Robert: I thought that at first, but if that was the case, why not just send the client the empty .mdb? Communication is key ... Lol Steve -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Robert L. Stewart Sent: Tuesday, March 02, 2004 1:13 PM To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: [AccessD] Re: Create scripts: CreateTable? Steve, I believe he was asking about a way of doing it in Access, like the way SQL Server can do it. Robert At 10:59 AM 3/2/2004 -0600, you wrote: >Date: Tue, 2 Mar 2004 10:40:58 -0500 >From: "Developer" >Subject: RE: [AccessD] Create scripts: CreateTable? >To: "'Access Developers discussion and problem solving'" > >Message-ID: <000501c4006c$c5294260$7001a8c0 at COA3> >Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" > >There is absolutely something like it, in MS-SQL 7.0 or 2000 (it's >likely in 6.5 too, I just don't remember). In Enterprise Manager >(2000), you right click on the development database, then "All Tasks", >"Generate SQL Script...". Select any objects you want scripted >(including sp's, views, etc.) and EM will generate a text file you can >run in Query Analyzer on the production server. I use this all the >time to develop one server and deploy on another. If you are quicker >at Access tables, you may want to do your tables there, use the SQL >upsize wizard, then generate the script (watch for data-type conversion >quirks, however, going from Access to SQL with the wizard). Books >Online will give all the details for script generation. > >Hth >Steve -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com --------------------------------- Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Search - Find what you?re looking for faster. -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From wdhindman at bellsouth.net Wed Mar 3 16:07:09 2004 From: wdhindman at bellsouth.net (William Hindman) Date: Wed, 3 Mar 2004 17:07:09 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Add All to List References: <618EB4D6DDCDD3119B0A00508B6FD37A0CB0D226@cntexchange.pgdp.usec.com> Message-ID: <008301c4016b$dfbcd740$6101a8c0@dejpolsys> ...the easiest way is to "if" the combo's after update event :) After Update Event cboCustomer If Me![cboCustomer] = "" Then DoCmd ShowAllRecords Else DoCmd ApplyFilter , "[State] = Forms![cboCustomer]![cboCustomer]" End If William Hindman "My idea of an agreeable person is a person who agrees with me." Disraeli ----- Original Message ----- From: "Hollis,Virginia" To: "'Access Developers discussion and problem solving'" Sent: Wednesday, March 03, 2004 4:29 PM Subject: RE: [AccessD] Add All to List > I don't know what I am doing wrong.... The all shows at the top of the list, > but All the records do not show on the subform. The combobox is still > showing the first record when it opens and the subform is filtered for that > record. > > What makes the All part of "ALL" in the combo box work? > > Virginia > > -----Original Message----- > From: William Hindman [mailto:wdhindman at bellsouth.net] > Sent: Wednesday, March 03, 2004 8:09 AM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: Re: [AccessD] Add All to List > > > Virginia > > ...use a UNION SELECT in the combo record source to add an ALL. > > ...example: > > SELECT DISTINCTROW Customers.Company, Customers.[Customer Number] FROM > Customers UNION SELECT "","" FROM Customers ORDER BY Customers.Company; > > William Hindman "My idea of an agreeable person is a person who agrees with > me." Disraeli > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Hollis,Virginia" > To: > Sent: Wednesday, March 03, 2004 8:45 AM > Subject: [AccessD] Add All to List > > > > How do you add All to List? This form contains 2 combo boxes on a main > form. > > Selecting data shows data on a subform for the related combo box choices. > > > > I need to either have an All in the combo boxes or when the form opens, I > > would like them to be blank. > > > > I tried this code in the On Open of the main form, but it still opens to > > the first record with entries in both combo boxes. > > > > With Me > > .cboNCSANo = "" > > .cboProcedure = "" > > End With > > > > Virginia > > -- > > _______________________________________________ > > AccessD mailing list > > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > From pedro at plex.nl Wed Mar 3 16:35:11 2004 From: pedro at plex.nl (Pedro Janssen) Date: Wed, 3 Mar 2004 23:35:11 +0100 Subject: [AccessD] increasing backend Message-ID: <005101c4016f$cb822c40$f2c581d5@pedro> Hello Group, how is it possible that a backend-database increases from 5 to 17 Mb, when only a few records are added. After compiling it was again 5 Mb. Pedro Janssen From my.lists at verizon.net Wed Mar 3 16:58:31 2004 From: my.lists at verizon.net (Francisco H Tapia) Date: Wed, 03 Mar 2004 14:58:31 -0800 Subject: [AccessD] increasing backend In-Reply-To: <005101c4016f$cb822c40$f2c581d5@pedro> References: <005101c4016f$cb822c40$f2c581d5@pedro> Message-ID: <40466317.80708@verizon.net> Pedro Janssen wrote: >Hello Group, > >how is it possible that a backend-database increases from 5 to 17 Mb, when only a few records are added. After compiling it was again 5 Mb. > >Pedro Janssen > > Those are the joy's of database bloat :) -- -Francisco From d.dick at uws.edu.au Wed Mar 3 18:12:57 2004 From: d.dick at uws.edu.au (Darren DICK) Date: Thu, 4 Mar 2004 11:12:57 +1100 Subject: [AccessD] A2K: Filtering a pick list References: <007001c40145$bdd59980$2a3ca8c0@TEXASSYSTEMS.COM> Message-ID: <025401c4017d$756bdf00$48619a89@DDICK> No Archive Thanks you all to those who responded It's working like a charm This list is Awesome DD ----- Original Message ----- From: "Ken Ismert" To: "'Access Developers discussion and problem solving'" Sent: Thursday, March 04, 2004 4:34 AM Subject: RE: [AccessD] A2K: Filtering a pick list > > I'm a man, who manufactures, > who manufactures chairs. > I'm a man who manufactures > chairs and other wares. > I'm a man, who manufactures! > > There is an efficient way to do this without building a custom WHERE clause. > You need to make a WHERE clause for your original listbox query that works > for every combination of combobox values. > > Take cboSuppliers, for example. You want it to restrict to a single Supplier > when a value is selected, but show all Suppliers when no value (Null) is > selected. A WHERE expression that does this is: > WHERE Nz(tblChairs.SupplierID = [Forms]![frmChairs]![cboSuppliers], True) > = True > > When cboSuppliers has a value, this will return chairs only for that > SupplierID. When cboSuppliers is Null, the Nz function will return True for > all SupplierIDs. (Value = Null returns Null in all instances.) > > So, your full WHERE clause would be: > WHERE (Nz(tblChairs.SupplierID = [Forms]![frmChairs]![cboSuppliers], True) > = True) > AND (Nz(tblChairs.BackTypeID = [Forms]![frmChairs]![cboBackTypes], True) > = True) > AND (Nz(tblChairs.RangeID = [Forms]![frmChairs]![cboRanges], True) = > True) > AND (Nz(tblChairs.StyleID = [Forms]![frmChairs]![cboStyles], True) = > True) > > In the AfterUpdate event of each combo, your code to implement couldn't be > simpler: > lstChairs.Requery > > You could also introduce a Clear button, which would reset your filter in > its Click event: > cboSuppliers.Value = Null > cboBackTypes.Value = Null > cboRanges.Value = Null > cboStyles.Value = Null > lstChairs.Requery > > You will find this faster than forcing the listbox or subform to parse the > RowSource SQL every time a filter combobox changes. This works well even for > large tables, as long as the fields you are filtering on are properly > indexed. > > Note that this technique works best for fields that do not allow nulls, like > keys. With slight modifications, you can get it to work for nullable fields. > > Plus, for subforms, you have the advantage of allowing the user to filter > the subform themselves, since you are not using the form's Filter property. > This has saved me from having to recode a form because someone wanted a > custom way of looking at the data. > > -Ken > > (my apologies to Mister Rogers) > > > -----Original Message----- > From: Darren DICK [mailto:d.dick at uws.edu.au] > Sent: Wednesday, March 03, 2004 5:17 AM > To: AccessD List > Subject: [AccessD] A2K: Filtering a pick list > > > Hello all > I have a very large list box that lists all the products (in this case > chairs) in a db > Each chair in tblChairs has many fields but in this case the ones I am > interested > in are ChairID, SupplierID, BackTypeID, RangeID, StyleID > > So on the same form as this very large list box of chairs, I have combo > boxes - > yep you guessed it - 4 of 'em - cboSuppliers, cboBackTypes, cboRanges, > cboStyleID > > I wanna filter the large list box based on the values in all or any > combination of the combo boxes. > > EG > Say supplier 5 = Acme Manufacturing and in the whole dB there are 100 chairs > made by Acme > Say of that 100 that Acme produce 38 of em have a Backtype of 2 (as in Low > =1 medium=2 High=3 etc) > > I would want the large list to instantly decrease to 100 items if I selected > Acme from the Suppliers combo. > Then I would want that list to further decreas to 38 when I choose Medium > back > PSUEDo = show me evert chair in the dB with supplier ID = 5 and BackType = 2 > etc etc and then somehow accept the various combinations of combo choices. > > Is there a clever or easy way of doing this without writing a zillion sql's > then selecting the correct one > and making it the listbox row source? > > Many thanks in advance > > Darren > > > > > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From jwelz at hotmail.com Wed Mar 3 18:18:00 2004 From: jwelz at hotmail.com (Jürgen Welz) Date: Wed, 03 Mar 2004 17:18:00 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] notes on mdb bloat Message-ID: I'd just compare two mdb files with 8 text fields, no indexes, 250 characters per field plus an autonumber field (unicode compression off) vs the same data structure but with no data in the text fields. A quick loop of 100,000 iterations to fill the tables with a constant string of 250 characters in each field vs just adding empty strings to the test database. Compact and draw your own conclusions. I would then run a routine to add a single character to one of the fields in the empty text database to see if it immediately swells back to the same size as the other database and draw further conclusions. It would have taken less time to run this test than to write this email but I believe we should all learn to fish and I saw William's frown. Most of my stuff is still Access 97 and all my 2000 stuff has been in limited number of user environments so I haven't worked with record level locking. I have run my own lock table/field when running unbound and that may prove to be more efficient from a bloat standpoint. I may just run this test this weekend but I am so busy right now that I'm deleting the vast majority of messages from the list right now. Ciao J?rgen Welz Edmonton, Alberta jwelz at hotmail.com >From: "William Hindman" > >...where is Jurgen when we need him? ...this is right up his alley :( > >William Hindman "My idea of an agreeable person is a person who agrees with >me." Disraeli > >----- Original Message ----- >From: "Gustav Brock" >To: "Access Developers discussion and problem solving" > >Sent: Wednesday, March 03, 2004 1:06 PM >Subject: Re: [AccessD] notes on mdb bloat > > > > Hi Jim > > > > > My guess would be no. Note that Garry mentions that it stays >bloated > > > until compact. That doesn't make sense. If the record locking >algorithm > > > can work after the database is compacted, then why would it have to >bloat it > > > in the first place? It just doesn't make sense from that standpoint. > > > > It could if you assume that - after compacting, when a record is opened > > for editing - it will be copied as a new and saved while the old is > > marked as deleted. But as you say, just guessing. > > > > > It does make sense though as to how they could achieve it with >little > > > problem, as they are just duplicating a technique that many developers >used > > > to get pseudo record level locking. It would be a simple matter to >change > > > the add logic to always use an empty page (they in part had already >done > > > that for JET 3.5). > > > > > So there's another reason why it's probably not that; if it were >that > > > simple (one record per page), then why did we need a new version of >JET? > > > Seems like something they could have put in A95 or A97 quite easily. > > > > Well, the implementation is slightly more complicated than bloating a > > row to fill a page. If I understand the article(s), the revised Jet > > engine maintains a flag which is set when any user requests row-level > > locking which forces subsequent users also to use row-level locking > > even if their default setting was for page-level locking. > > > > > With no docs, it's all guess work though. > > > > Yes, true. However, experimenting with this while watching the mdb file > > with an hex viewer/editor could tell a lot. I have neither the time > > nor the need for this, though ... > > > > /gustav > > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > > > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Gustav Brock > > > Sent: Wednesday, March 03, 2004 12:11 PM > > > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > > > Subject: Re: [AccessD] notes on mdb bloat > > > > > > > Hi all > > > > > Does this - simplified - boil down to, that all row-level locking does > > > compared to page-level locking is bloating a row to fill a page? > > > > > /gustav > > > > > > >> Hi Seth et all > > > > >> In Garry Robinson's newsletter I noted this extremely interesting >topic: > > > > > > >> SINGLE RECORD LOCKING, BLOAT AND CITRIX BUGS > > > > >> Did you know that the record-level locking option (menu > > >> Tools~Options~Advanced) that is used by Access 2000 onwards has an > > >> interesting twist. To achieve a single record lock, each record that > > >> is locked uses up all of an Access page in the mdb file. This page of > > >> data, most of which will probably be empty for records with only a >few > > >> fields, consumes 4000 bytes. This space is later recovered when the > > >> database is compacted but if you have a database that seems to expand > > >> fast, this could be your culprit. For more on this database bloat and > > >> a possible cure for Access corruptions for Citrix head to this page. > > > > >> http://ewbi.blogs.com/develops/2004/01/access_corrupti.html > > > > >> and an other blog on the same topic > > >> http://dbforums.com/arch/213/2002/10/551337 > > > > >> Gary is here: > > > > >> http://www.vb123.com/ > > > > >> /gustav > > > > > > >>> I hadn't even thought of that. I tried it just now, and the >resulting > > >>> mdb is 1.5MB. Still three times as big as the A97 version, but not >as > > >>> big as the base A2K version. > > > > >>> The unicode comments make sense, I had forgotten about that, too. > > > > >>> Oh well, more interesting info from the developer front... > > > > >>> Seth > > > > >>> On Wed, 2003-03-12 at 11:45, Gustav Brock wrote: > > >>>> Hi Seth > > >>>> > > >>>> What happens if you "forward port" the A97 version to A2000? > > >>>> > > >>>> /gustav _________________________________________________________________ The new MSN 8: advanced junk mail protection and 2 months FREE* http://join.msn.com/?page=dept/bcomm&pgmarket=en-ca&RU=http%3a%2f%2fjoin.msn.com%2f%3fpage%3dmisc%2fspecialoffers%26pgmarket%3den-ca From martyconnelly at shaw.ca Wed Mar 3 18:15:49 2004 From: martyconnelly at shaw.ca (MartyConnelly) Date: Wed, 03 Mar 2004 16:15:49 -0800 Subject: [AccessD] notes on mdb bloat References: <335897577.20040303190658@cactus.dk> <006001c40165$a4826470$6101a8c0@dejpolsys> Message-ID: <40467535.8090602@shaw.ca> There was an article on this in Access Advisor around 98 or 99, most of it revolved around the use of Temp queries with the solution being putting them in a separate mdb. Ahh got it. Feb 98 Alan Biggs "the Mystery of the bloated database". . If you constrain the recordset of a form by setting an SQL statement from code into the recordsource of a form, the mdb grows. Access implicitly creates a temporary querydef and inserts it into your SQL statement. If you have a client server system where you dynamically modify SQL pass through queries from an ODBC datasource. the mdb grows. Each time the SQL text is changed, its querydef is deleted and a new one with the samed name is created at the EOF, thus enlarging the mdb William Hindman wrote: >...where is Jurgen when we need him? ...this is right up his alley :( > >William Hindman "My idea of an agreeable person is a person who agrees with >me." Disraeli > >----- Original Message ----- >From: "Gustav Brock" >To: "Access Developers discussion and problem solving" > >Sent: Wednesday, March 03, 2004 1:06 PM >Subject: Re: [AccessD] notes on mdb bloat > > > > >>Hi Jim >> >> >> >>> My guess would be no. Note that Garry mentions that it stays bloated >>>until compact. That doesn't make sense. If the record locking >>> >>> >algorithm > > >>>can work after the database is compacted, then why would it have to >>> >>> >bloat it > > >>>in the first place? It just doesn't make sense from that standpoint. >>> >>> >>It could if you assume that - after compacting, when a record is opened >>for editing - it will be copied as a new and saved while the old is >>marked as deleted. But as you say, just guessing. >> >> >> >>> It does make sense though as to how they could achieve it with little >>>problem, as they are just duplicating a technique that many developers >>> >>> >used > > >>>to get pseudo record level locking. It would be a simple matter to >>> >>> >change > > >>>the add logic to always use an empty page (they in part had already done >>>that for JET 3.5). >>> >>> >>> So there's another reason why it's probably not that; if it were that >>>simple (one record per page), then why did we need a new version of JET? >>>Seems like something they could have put in A95 or A97 quite easily. >>> >>> >>Well, the implementation is slightly more complicated than bloating a >>row to fill a page. If I understand the article(s), the revised Jet >>engine maintains a flag which is set when any user requests row-level >>locking which forces subsequent users also to use row-level locking >>even if their default setting was for page-level locking. >> >> >> >>> With no docs, it's all guess work though. >>> >>> >>Yes, true. However, experimenting with this while watching the mdb file >>with an hex viewer/editor could tell a lot. I have neither the time >>nor the need for this, though ... >> >>/gustav >> >> >> >> >> >>>-----Original Message----- >>>From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com >>>[mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Gustav Brock >>>Sent: Wednesday, March 03, 2004 12:11 PM >>>To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving >>>Subject: Re: [AccessD] notes on mdb bloat >>> >>> >> >> >>>Hi all >>> >>> >>>Does this - simplified - boil down to, that all row-level locking does >>>compared to page-level locking is bloating a row to fill a page? >>> >>> >>>/gustav >>> >>> >> >> >>>>Hi Seth et all >>>> >>>> >>>>In Garry Robinson's newsletter I noted this extremely interesting >>>> >>>> >topic: > > >> >> >>>>SINGLE RECORD LOCKING, BLOAT AND CITRIX BUGS >>>> >>>> >>>>Did you know that the record-level locking option (menu >>>>Tools~Options~Advanced) that is used by Access 2000 onwards has an >>>>interesting twist. To achieve a single record lock, each record that >>>>is locked uses up all of an Access page in the mdb file. This page of >>>>data, most of which will probably be empty for records with only a few >>>>fields, consumes 4000 bytes. This space is later recovered when the >>>>database is compacted but if you have a database that seems to expand >>>>fast, this could be your culprit. For more on this database bloat and >>>>a possible cure for Access corruptions for Citrix head to this page. >>>> >>>> >>>>http://ewbi.blogs.com/develops/2004/01/access_corrupti.html >>>> >>>> >>>>and an other blog on the same topic >>>>http://dbforums.com/arch/213/2002/10/551337 >>>> >>>> >>>>Gary is here: >>>> >>>> >>>>http://www.vb123.com/ >>>> >>>> >>>>/gustav >>>> >>>> >> >> >>>>>I hadn't even thought of that. I tried it just now, and the resulting >>>>>mdb is 1.5MB. Still three times as big as the A97 version, but not as >>>>>big as the base A2K version. >>>>> >>>>> >>>>>The unicode comments make sense, I had forgotten about that, too. >>>>> >>>>> >>>>>Oh well, more interesting info from the developer front... >>>>> >>>>> >>>>>Seth >>>>> >>>>> >>>>>On Wed, 2003-03-12 at 11:45, Gustav Brock wrote: >>>>> >>>>> >>>>>>Hi Seth >>>>>> >>>>>>What happens if you "forward port" the A97 version to A2000? >>>>>> >>>>>>/gustav >>>>>> >>>>>> >>-- >>_______________________________________________ >>AccessD mailing list >>AccessD at databaseadvisors.com >>http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd >>Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com >> >> >> > > > > -- Marty Connelly Victoria, B.C. Canada From martyconnelly at shaw.ca Wed Mar 3 18:19:44 2004 From: martyconnelly at shaw.ca (MartyConnelly) Date: Wed, 03 Mar 2004 16:19:44 -0800 Subject: [AccessD] Deployment References: <006901c40137$fc4cb0d0$6801a8c0@HAL9002> <003d01c4013a$ee518f70$6101a8c0@dejpolsys> <009401c4013e$bd2b7b00$6801a8c0@HAL9002> <001c01c40140$1b47c6c0$6101a8c0@dejpolsys> <015b01c40159$e5fc70a0$6801a8c0@HAL9002> Message-ID: <40467620.8040401@shaw.ca> Roughly a ballpark figure for Access 2000 50 MB + or 70MB+ if you don't drop IE5 install. XP should be similar. Rocky Smolin - Beach Access Software wrote: >And when you use it how big is the file? > >Rocky > >----- Original Message ----- >From: "William Hindman" >To: "Access Developers discussion and problem solving" > >Sent: Wednesday, March 03, 2004 8:53 AM >Subject: Re: [AccessD] Deployment > > > > >>...yeah, you need the ODE for XP ...but you can pick that up on e-bay >> >> >pretty > > >>cheap now ...but you need that whether you use wise/sagekey or the ODE >>packaging wizard ...iirc the ODE has the runtime distribution license, not >>the Office Pro pkg. >> >>William Hindman "My idea of an agreeable person is a person who agrees >> >> >with > > >>me." Disraeli >> >>----- Original Message ----- >>From: "Rocky Smolin - Beach Access Software" >>To: "Access Developers discussion and problem solving" >> >>Sent: Wednesday, March 03, 2004 11:44 AM >>Subject: Re: [AccessD] Deployment >> >> >> >> >>>William: >>> >>>What's the overhead? How big is the package net of the mdb or mde >>> >>> >itself? > > >>>Did you have to buy a developer's license for AXP? >>> >>>Rocky >>> >>>----- Original Message ----- >>>From: "William Hindman" >>>To: "Access Developers discussion and problem solving" >>> >>>Sent: Wednesday, March 03, 2004 8:16 AM >>>Subject: Re: [AccessD] Deployment >>> >>> >>> >>> >>>>...can't speak to 2000 but the deployment package in AXP was head over >>>> >>>> >>>heels >>> >>> >>>>better than the A97 version ...I've deployed more than a hundred AXP >>>>runtimes with it without a hiccup ...hth :) >>>> >>>>William Hindman "My idea of an agreeable person is a person who agrees >>>> >>>> >>>with >>> >>> >>>>me." Disraeli >>>> >>>>----- Original Message ----- >>>>From: "Rocky Smolin - Beach Access Software" >>>>To: >>>>Sent: Wednesday, March 03, 2004 10:55 AM >>>>Subject: [AccessD] Deployment >>>> >>>> >>>>Dear List: >>>> >>>>I've got an app I'm developing for the consumer market and we're in >>>> >>>> >beta > > >>>>testing now. It's in A2K so all the betas have to have Access. >>>> >>>>Eventually it will have to be packaged as a run-time. But at that >>>> >>>> >point > > >>it >> >> >>>>will be shrink-wrapped. >>>> >>>>In the short term we could expand our beta testing universe with a >>>> >>>> >>>run-time. >>> >>> >>>>So I'm trying to figure out the best way to do this. >>>> >>>>The problem AFAIK with the run-times is their size. Right now we can >>>> >>>> >>>email >>> >>> >>>>the mde to a beta tester and it's about 3-4MB. If I put up a run-time >>>> >>>> >>on >> >> >>>my >>> >>> >>>>web site, beta testers are not likely to know how to do an FTP >>>> >>>> >program. > > >>>>I suppose I could make a password protected folder on my web site, and >>>> >>>> >>get >> >> >>>>my web site developer to make the run-time downloadable or installable >>>> >>>> >>>from >>> >>> >>>>the site. I don't know how to do this. Maybe she does. >>>> >>>>I've got A97 developer's edition, Wise Installer, and the Sagekey >>>> >>>> >script > > >>>for >>> >>> >>>>A97. But I don't think that the app can be converted back to A97. In >>>> >>>> >>any >> >> >>>>event, the total A97/Wise/Sagekey package runs to about 70MB IIRC. >>>> >>>>I could buy A2002 or A2003 if they've got a better deployment >>>> >>>> >capability > > >>>>than they've had in the past. >>>> >>>>What are your recommendations, suggestions, thoughts? >>>> >>>>Thanks in advance, >>>> >>>>Rocky Smolin >>>>Beach Access Software >>>>-- >>>>_______________________________________________ >>>>AccessD mailing list >>>>AccessD at databaseadvisors.com >>>>http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd >>>>Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com >>>> >>>> >>>>-- >>>>_______________________________________________ >>>>AccessD mailing list >>>>AccessD at databaseadvisors.com >>>>http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd >>>>Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>-- >>>_______________________________________________ >>>AccessD mailing list >>>AccessD at databaseadvisors.com >>>http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd >>>Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com >>> >>> >>> >>-- >>_______________________________________________ >>AccessD mailing list >>AccessD at databaseadvisors.com >>http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd >>Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com >> >> >> > > > -- Marty Connelly Victoria, B.C. Canada From dfe at nudgeeinternational.com Wed Mar 3 18:28:53 2004 From: dfe at nudgeeinternational.com (David Fenton) Date: Thu, 4 Mar 2004 10:28:53 +1000 Subject: [AccessD] Filter versus select in ACC2002 Message-ID: Hello all, I am having a speed problem with one of my Access 2002 applications FE/BE (not SQL Server) and I started wondering about whether I was approaching the filtering properly or not, so I seek advice. Users currently use a search screen to find a record. The main form that displays the information has a recordsource that selects all records. The main form is filtered to the record they want based on the results from the search form. I think I am doing it all backwards and should in fact select only the record they have searched for, rather than filtering. There are quite a few subforms on this form under tab controls and a control on one of the subforms loads another form which contains many subforms. The loading of this screen exhibits the same speed problem because again the form's recordsource selects all records and when the user clicks to load it, it filters to the correct record. Am I putting undue strain on the network by having the form select all records then filtering instead of just selecting the record they want? I imagine that the FE form requests the data, which travels across the network and is then filtered, is that correct? If I change the recordsource to select only the record they want, then no filtering needs to take place and I am thinking that the form loading will be faster... Any hints, tips, comments, suggestions?? Cheers David Australia From KIsmert at TexasSystems.com Wed Mar 3 18:45:39 2004 From: KIsmert at TexasSystems.com (Ken Ismert) Date: Wed, 3 Mar 2004 18:45:39 -0600 Subject: [AccessD] Add All to List In-Reply-To: <008301c4016b$dfbcd740$6101a8c0@dejpolsys> Message-ID: <00a601c40182$04aba2f0$2a3ca8c0@TEXASSYSTEMS.COM> Virginia, See the thread 'Filtering a pick list', running concurrently with this one, for a range of solutions to your problem. -Ken -----Original Message----- From: William Hindman [mailto:wdhindman at bellsouth.net] Sent: Wednesday, March 03, 2004 4:07 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Add All to List ...the easiest way is to "if" the combo's after update event :) After Update Event cboCustomer If Me![cboCustomer] = "" Then DoCmd ShowAllRecords Else DoCmd ApplyFilter , "[State] = Forms![cboCustomer]![cboCustomer]" End If William Hindman "My idea of an agreeable person is a person who agrees with me." Disraeli ----- Original Message ----- From: "Hollis,Virginia" To: "'Access Developers discussion and problem solving'" Sent: Wednesday, March 03, 2004 4:29 PM Subject: RE: [AccessD] Add All to List > I don't know what I am doing wrong.... The all shows at the top of the list, > but All the records do not show on the subform. The combobox is still > showing the first record when it opens and the subform is filtered for that > record. > > What makes the All part of "ALL" in the combo box work? > > Virginia > > -----Original Message----- > From: William Hindman [mailto:wdhindman at bellsouth.net] > Sent: Wednesday, March 03, 2004 8:09 AM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: Re: [AccessD] Add All to List > > > Virginia > > ...use a UNION SELECT in the combo record source to add an ALL. > > ...example: > > SELECT DISTINCTROW Customers.Company, Customers.[Customer Number] FROM > Customers UNION SELECT "","" FROM Customers ORDER BY Customers.Company; > > William Hindman "My idea of an agreeable person is a person who agrees with > me." Disraeli > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Hollis,Virginia" > To: > Sent: Wednesday, March 03, 2004 8:45 AM > Subject: [AccessD] Add All to List > > > > How do you add All to List? This form contains 2 combo boxes on a main > form. > > Selecting data shows data on a subform for the related combo box choices. > > > > I need to either have an All in the combo boxes or when the form opens, I > > would like them to be blank. > > > > I tried this code in the On Open of the main form, but it still opens to > > the first record with entries in both combo boxes. > > > > With Me > > .cboNCSANo = "" > > .cboProcedure = "" > > End With > > > > Virginia > > -- > > _______________________________________________ > > AccessD mailing list > > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > From jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com Wed Mar 3 18:53:36 2004 From: jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com (John W. Colby) Date: Wed, 3 Mar 2004 19:53:36 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Add All to List In-Reply-To: <008301c4016b$dfbcd740$6101a8c0@dejpolsys> Message-ID: The easiest way is to union a Select "*", "ALL" John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of William Hindman Sent: Wednesday, March 03, 2004 5:07 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Add All to List ...the easiest way is to "if" the combo's after update event :) After Update Event cboCustomer If Me![cboCustomer] = "" Then DoCmd ShowAllRecords Else DoCmd ApplyFilter , "[State] = Forms![cboCustomer]![cboCustomer]" End If William Hindman "My idea of an agreeable person is a person who agrees with me." Disraeli ----- Original Message ----- From: "Hollis,Virginia" To: "'Access Developers discussion and problem solving'" Sent: Wednesday, March 03, 2004 4:29 PM Subject: RE: [AccessD] Add All to List > I don't know what I am doing wrong.... The all shows at the top of the list, > but All the records do not show on the subform. The combobox is still > showing the first record when it opens and the subform is filtered for that > record. > > What makes the All part of "ALL" in the combo box work? > > Virginia > > -----Original Message----- > From: William Hindman [mailto:wdhindman at bellsouth.net] > Sent: Wednesday, March 03, 2004 8:09 AM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: Re: [AccessD] Add All to List > > > Virginia > > ...use a UNION SELECT in the combo record source to add an ALL. > > ...example: > > SELECT DISTINCTROW Customers.Company, Customers.[Customer Number] FROM > Customers UNION SELECT "","" FROM Customers ORDER BY Customers.Company; > > William Hindman "My idea of an agreeable person is a person who agrees with > me." Disraeli > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Hollis,Virginia" > To: > Sent: Wednesday, March 03, 2004 8:45 AM > Subject: [AccessD] Add All to List > > > > How do you add All to List? This form contains 2 combo boxes on a main > form. > > Selecting data shows data on a subform for the related combo box choices. > > > > I need to either have an All in the combo boxes or when the form opens, I > > would like them to be blank. > > > > I tried this code in the On Open of the main form, but it still opens to > > the first record with entries in both combo boxes. > > > > With Me > > .cboNCSANo = "" > > .cboProcedure = "" > > End With > > > > Virginia > > -- > > _______________________________________________ > > AccessD mailing list > > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From wdhindman at bellsouth.net Wed Mar 3 19:00:52 2004 From: wdhindman at bellsouth.net (William Hindman) Date: Wed, 3 Mar 2004 20:00:52 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] notes on mdb bloat References: Message-ID: <014801c40184$240ab990$6101a8c0@dejpolsys> ...I love to fish ...but when I want to eat I go to people who can catch them :))))) William Hindman "My idea of an agreeable person is a person who agrees with me." Disraeli ----- Original Message ----- From: "J?rgen Welz" To: Sent: Wednesday, March 03, 2004 7:18 PM Subject: Re: [AccessD] notes on mdb bloat > I'd just compare two mdb files with 8 text fields, no indexes, 250 > characters per field plus an autonumber field (unicode compression off) vs > the same data structure but with no data in the text fields. A quick loop > of 100,000 iterations to fill the tables with a constant string of 250 > characters in each field vs just adding empty strings to the test database. > Compact and draw your own conclusions. I would then run a routine to add a > single character to one of the fields in the empty text database to see if > it immediately swells back to the same size as the other database and draw > further conclusions. It would have taken less time to run this test than to > write this email but I believe we should all learn to fish and I saw > William's frown. Most of my stuff is still Access 97 and all my 2000 stuff > has been in limited number of user environments so I haven't worked with > record level locking. I have run my own lock table/field when running > unbound and that may prove to be more efficient from a bloat standpoint. I > may just run this test this weekend but I am so busy right now that I'm > deleting the vast majority of messages from the list right now. > > > > Ciao > J?rgen Welz > Edmonton, Alberta > jwelz at hotmail.com > > > > > > >From: "William Hindman" > > > >...where is Jurgen when we need him? ...this is right up his alley :( > > > >William Hindman "My idea of an agreeable person is a person who agrees with > >me." Disraeli > > > >----- Original Message ----- > >From: "Gustav Brock" > >To: "Access Developers discussion and problem solving" > > > >Sent: Wednesday, March 03, 2004 1:06 PM > >Subject: Re: [AccessD] notes on mdb bloat > > > > > > > Hi Jim > > > > > > > My guess would be no. Note that Garry mentions that it stays > >bloated > > > > until compact. That doesn't make sense. If the record locking > >algorithm > > > > can work after the database is compacted, then why would it have to > >bloat it > > > > in the first place? It just doesn't make sense from that standpoint. > > > > > > It could if you assume that - after compacting, when a record is opened > > > for editing - it will be copied as a new and saved while the old is > > > marked as deleted. But as you say, just guessing. > > > > > > > It does make sense though as to how they could achieve it with > >little > > > > problem, as they are just duplicating a technique that many developers > >used > > > > to get pseudo record level locking. It would be a simple matter to > >change > > > > the add logic to always use an empty page (they in part had already > >done > > > > that for JET 3.5). > > > > > > > So there's another reason why it's probably not that; if it were > >that > > > > simple (one record per page), then why did we need a new version of > >JET? > > > > Seems like something they could have put in A95 or A97 quite easily. > > > > > > Well, the implementation is slightly more complicated than bloating a > > > row to fill a page. If I understand the article(s), the revised Jet > > > engine maintains a flag which is set when any user requests row-level > > > locking which forces subsequent users also to use row-level locking > > > even if their default setting was for page-level locking. > > > > > > > With no docs, it's all guess work though. > > > > > > Yes, true. However, experimenting with this while watching the mdb file > > > with an hex viewer/editor could tell a lot. I have neither the time > > > nor the need for this, though ... > > > > > > /gustav > > > > > > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > > > > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Gustav Brock > > > > Sent: Wednesday, March 03, 2004 12:11 PM > > > > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > > > > Subject: Re: [AccessD] notes on mdb bloat > > > > > > > > > > Hi all > > > > > > > Does this - simplified - boil down to, that all row-level locking does > > > > compared to page-level locking is bloating a row to fill a page? > > > > > > > /gustav > > > > > > > > > >> Hi Seth et all > > > > > > >> In Garry Robinson's newsletter I noted this extremely interesting > >topic: > > > > > > > > > >> SINGLE RECORD LOCKING, BLOAT AND CITRIX BUGS > > > > > > >> Did you know that the record-level locking option (menu > > > >> Tools~Options~Advanced) that is used by Access 2000 onwards has an > > > >> interesting twist. To achieve a single record lock, each record that > > > >> is locked uses up all of an Access page in the mdb file. This page of > > > >> data, most of which will probably be empty for records with only a > >few > > > >> fields, consumes 4000 bytes. This space is later recovered when the > > > >> database is compacted but if you have a database that seems to expand > > > >> fast, this could be your culprit. For more on this database bloat and > > > >> a possible cure for Access corruptions for Citrix head to this page. > > > > > > >> http://ewbi.blogs.com/develops/2004/01/access_corrupti.html > > > > > > >> and an other blog on the same topic > > > >> http://dbforums.com/arch/213/2002/10/551337 > > > > > > >> Gary is here: > > > > > > >> http://www.vb123.com/ > > > > > > >> /gustav > > > > > > > > > >>> I hadn't even thought of that. I tried it just now, and the > >resulting > > > >>> mdb is 1.5MB. Still three times as big as the A97 version, but not > >as > > > >>> big as the base A2K version. > > > > > > >>> The unicode comments make sense, I had forgotten about that, too. > > > > > > >>> Oh well, more interesting info from the developer front... > > > > > > >>> Seth > > > > > > >>> On Wed, 2003-03-12 at 11:45, Gustav Brock wrote: > > > >>>> Hi Seth > > > >>>> > > > >>>> What happens if you "forward port" the A97 version to A2000? > > > >>>> > > > >>>> /gustav > > _________________________________________________________________ > The new MSN 8: advanced junk mail protection and 2 months FREE* > http://join.msn.com/?page=dept/bcomm&pgmarket=en-ca&RU=http%3a%2f%2fjoin.msn.com%2f%3fpage%3dmisc%2fspecialoffers%26pgmarket%3den-ca > > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > From dwaters at usinternet.com Wed Mar 3 19:02:04 2004 From: dwaters at usinternet.com (Dan Waters) Date: Wed, 3 Mar 2004 19:02:04 -0600 Subject: [AccessD] Filter versus select in ACC2002 In-Reply-To: <18010178.1078360481165.JavaMail.root@sniper2.marix.com> Message-ID: <000001c40184$4efc87a0$de1811d8@DanWaters> David, I think you are on the right track. I would suggest setting up a loop to do this 1000 times each of the two different ways. Set a starttime variable at the beginning of the loop and an endtime variable at the end of the loop, then subtract to see if there is a time difference for the two different methods. I did this test once and found out that CurrentDB is 8 X slower than DBEngine(0)(0) for creating recordsets. (But you must use CurrentDB for some situations.) Best of luck! Dan Waters -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of David Fenton Sent: Wednesday, March 03, 2004 6:29 PM To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: [AccessD] Filter versus select in ACC2002 Hello all, I am having a speed problem with one of my Access 2002 applications FE/BE (not SQL Server) and I started wondering about whether I was approaching the filtering properly or not, so I seek advice. Users currently use a search screen to find a record. The main form that displays the information has a recordsource that selects all records. The main form is filtered to the record they want based on the results from the search form. I think I am doing it all backwards and should in fact select only the record they have searched for, rather than filtering. There are quite a few subforms on this form under tab controls and a control on one of the subforms loads another form which contains many subforms. The loading of this screen exhibits the same speed problem because again the form's recordsource selects all records and when the user clicks to load it, it filters to the correct record. Am I putting undue strain on the network by having the form select all records then filtering instead of just selecting the record they want? I imagine that the FE form requests the data, which travels across the network and is then filtered, is that correct? If I change the recordsource to select only the record they want, then no filtering needs to take place and I am thinking that the form loading will be faster... Any hints, tips, comments, suggestions?? Cheers David Australia -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From my.lists at verizon.net Wed Mar 3 19:04:22 2004 From: my.lists at verizon.net (Francisco H Tapia) Date: Wed, 03 Mar 2004 17:04:22 -0800 Subject: [AccessD] A2K: BOUND to be a problem Message-ID: <40468096.7050509@verizon.net> The most basic most elementry type of form in the world, and yet Access likes to give me a little curve ball :) I have a form in datasheet view (yeah the boss likes the excel look), Now the table does not have an autonumber in this field, it's just a basic plain table bound to a form. NO query, no other special needs. when adding text values to a particular field, when he begins coding 3 lines in a row in this sequence 1 (down arrow) 2 (down arrow) the 3rd line automatically populates the field w/ the #3, now if he hits ESC it won't continue until he meets the same criteria as above, however if he continues simply pressing the down arrow the next row field increments by one, so, after 3, 4, 5, 6, 7... and so on.. But it doesn't seem to overwrite the previously populated fields... he has a unique coding structure for this field(column) such as 1, 2, 22, R, etc... there is no combobox because that's the way the boss likes it, but this problem cropped up in Access2000 because previously this was an Access97 form.(It upsized to Access2000.) -- -Francisco From jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com Wed Mar 3 19:43:31 2004 From: jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com (John W. Colby) Date: Wed, 3 Mar 2004 20:43:31 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Frameworks, what are they? Message-ID: Robert, The only example I have of a running framework is my own. Unfortunately it is so complex at this point it would be undecipherable to anyone but me I'm afraid. You have heard me discuss the various functionalities I have placed into my framework. In order to understand my stuff you would have to wade through all that stuff I have mentioned. I am certainly willing to post it somewhere with an application that uses it so that you can see how I do things but I'm truly uncertain whether a discussion could address my framework without getting pretty deep pretty fast. A framework is really nothing more than a skeleton upon which you hang an application. As you need more functionality, if it is generic and useful to the next app you add it to the framework. In this day and age, you really need to be thinking classes however since they allow you to set up containers for related functionality. I am going to cc the list however. We have many developers who have developed their own framework. I have never seen anyone else's so I can't vouch for how complex they are now how conceptually similar to what I do, but if we address the list, perhaps we can get a discussion going on this stuff. John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com -----Original Message----- From: Robert Gracie [mailto:Robert at servicexp.com] Sent: Wednesday, March 03, 2004 8:18 PM To: jcolby at colbyconsulting.com Subject: I have a question John, I have really appreciated the help over the last few months in regards to "DEEP" programming, your examples have been very helpful. I'm intrigued with "framework" idea however I have no idea where to get started. My question is; do you have any examples of a running "framework", or any books that explain how to set this sort of thing up? Thanks Again!! Robert Gracie From Subscriptions at servicexp.com Wed Mar 3 19:51:44 2004 From: Subscriptions at servicexp.com (Robert Gracie) Date: Wed, 3 Mar 2004 20:51:44 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Frameworks, what are they? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: It may at least get me to the "big picture place" to see how it should be done, if only at a basic level. Is your framework documented? Thanks For Your Help!! Robert Gracie -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of John W. Colby Sent: Wednesday, March 03, 2004 8:44 PM To: AccessD Subject: [AccessD] Frameworks, what are they? Robert, The only example I have of a running framework is my own. Unfortunately it is so complex at this point it would be undecipherable to anyone but me I'm afraid. You have heard me discuss the various functionalities I have placed into my framework. In order to understand my stuff you would have to wade through all that stuff I have mentioned. I am certainly willing to post it somewhere with an application that uses it so that you can see how I do things but I'm truly uncertain whether a discussion could address my framework without getting pretty deep pretty fast. A framework is really nothing more than a skeleton upon which you hang an application. As you need more functionality, if it is generic and useful to the next app you add it to the framework. In this day and age, you really need to be thinking classes however since they allow you to set up containers for related functionality. I am going to cc the list however. We have many developers who have developed their own framework. I have never seen anyone else's so I can't vouch for how complex they are now how conceptually similar to what I do, but if we address the list, perhaps we can get a discussion going on this stuff. John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com -----Original Message----- From: Robert Gracie [mailto:Robert at servicexp.com] Sent: Wednesday, March 03, 2004 8:18 PM To: jcolby at colbyconsulting.com Subject: I have a question John, I have really appreciated the help over the last few months in regards to "DEEP" programming, your examples have been very helpful. I'm intrigued with "framework" idea however I have no idea where to get started. My question is; do you have any examples of a running "framework", or any books that explain how to set this sort of thing up? Thanks Again!! Robert Gracie -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From Subscriptions at servicexp.com Wed Mar 3 19:56:14 2004 From: Subscriptions at servicexp.com (Robert Gracie) Date: Wed, 3 Mar 2004 20:56:14 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Frameworks, what are they? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Ok so what are the basic "bones" if you will of a framework? The basic skeleton I guess. Robert Gracie ************************* I am going to cc the list however. We have many developers who have developed their own framework. I have never seen anyone else's so I can't vouch for how complex they are now how conceptually similar to what I do, but if we address the list, perhaps we can get a discussion going on this stuff. John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com -----Original Message----- From: Robert Gracie [mailto:Robert at servicexp.com] Sent: Wednesday, March 03, 2004 8:18 PM To: jcolby at colbyconsulting.com Subject: I have a question John, I have really appreciated the help over the last few months in regards to "DEEP" programming, your examples have been very helpful. I'm intrigued with "framework" idea however I have no idea where to get started. My question is; do you have any examples of a running "framework", or any books that explain how to set this sort of thing up? Thanks Again!! Robert Gracie -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From wdhindman at bellsouth.net Wed Mar 3 20:00:24 2004 From: wdhindman at bellsouth.net (William Hindman) Date: Wed, 3 Mar 2004 21:00:24 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Add All to List References: Message-ID: <000a01c4018c$756a81a0$6101a8c0@dejpolsys> ??? ...allright ...I'll bite ...are you answering her first query or the follow-on? :) William Hindman "My idea of an agreeable person is a person who agrees with me." Disraeli ----- Original Message ----- From: "John W. Colby" To: "Access Developers discussion and problem solving" Sent: Wednesday, March 03, 2004 7:53 PM Subject: RE: [AccessD] Add All to List > The easiest way is to union a Select "*", "ALL" > > John W. Colby > www.ColbyConsulting.com > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of William > Hindman > Sent: Wednesday, March 03, 2004 5:07 PM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: Re: [AccessD] Add All to List > > > ...the easiest way is to "if" the combo's after update event :) > > After Update Event cboCustomer > If Me![cboCustomer] = "" Then > DoCmd ShowAllRecords > Else > DoCmd ApplyFilter , "[State] = Forms![cboCustomer]![cboCustomer]" > End If > > William Hindman "My idea of an agreeable person is a person who agrees with > me." Disraeli > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Hollis,Virginia" > To: "'Access Developers discussion and problem solving'" > > Sent: Wednesday, March 03, 2004 4:29 PM > Subject: RE: [AccessD] Add All to List > > > > I don't know what I am doing wrong.... The all shows at the top of the > list, > > but All the records do not show on the subform. The combobox is still > > showing the first record when it opens and the subform is filtered for > that > > record. > > > > What makes the All part of "ALL" in the combo box work? > > > > Virginia > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: William Hindman [mailto:wdhindman at bellsouth.net] > > Sent: Wednesday, March 03, 2004 8:09 AM > > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > > Subject: Re: [AccessD] Add All to List > > > > > > Virginia > > > > ...use a UNION SELECT in the combo record source to add an ALL. > > > > ...example: > > > > SELECT DISTINCTROW Customers.Company, Customers.[Customer Number] FROM > > Customers UNION SELECT "","" FROM Customers ORDER BY > Customers.Company; > > > > William Hindman "My idea of an agreeable person is a person who agrees > with > > me." Disraeli > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: "Hollis,Virginia" > > To: > > Sent: Wednesday, March 03, 2004 8:45 AM > > Subject: [AccessD] Add All to List > > > > > > > How do you add All to List? This form contains 2 combo boxes on a main > > form. > > > Selecting data shows data on a subform for the related combo box > choices. > > > > > > I need to either have an All in the combo boxes or when the form opens, > I > > > would like them to be blank. > > > > > > I tried this code in the On Open of the main form, but it still opens > to > > > the first record with entries in both combo boxes. > > > > > > With Me > > > .cboNCSANo = "" > > > .cboProcedure = "" > > > End With > > > > > > Virginia > > > -- > > > _______________________________________________ > > > AccessD mailing list > > > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > > > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > > > > > > -- > > _______________________________________________ > > AccessD mailing list > > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > -- > > _______________________________________________ > > AccessD mailing list > > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > From jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com Wed Mar 3 21:04:45 2004 From: jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com (John W. Colby) Date: Wed, 3 Mar 2004 22:04:45 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Framework pseudo-definition Message-ID: Folks, I have thrown out suggestions about how I handle things "using my framework". Robert has asked me what a framework is and how to start one. Unfortunately the word Framework is used by different people for different things, so I will state my own definitions with the warning that I have no intention of arguing with anyone who doesn't like my definition. For my purposes, a framework is a skeleton. Look at a skyscraper being built on the horizon. The framework is all that steel, the elevators, the air conditioning, electrical service, water, sewage etc. ALL of that stuff is necessary regardless of whether you intend to rent one thousand square feet or one million. And once all of that stuff is in place, the rest is just sheetrock, aluminum framing, doors and windows. My framework starts with a class named dclsFW, the framework class. It is instantiated ONE time (a single instance), but inside of that class is the foundation of the rest of the system. It has "class global" variables for other "service" classes. By "class global" I mean private to the class (can only be directly manipulated by the class) but global to the class (can be seen from anywhere in THAT class). By Service classes I mean classes such as my SysVars, Zip/unzip, Encrypt/Decrypt and so forth. These are really "standalone classes", they do not require my framework at all in order to function, but by placing then in my framework class I provide them to any other part of my class. dclsFW instantiates all these service classes when dclsFW initializes, and tears them down when dclsFW terminates. dclsFW also provides property gets to allow other code to access these service classes directly. ALL classes, EVERY SINGLE ONE, have a set of common stuff at the top, a handful of private constants and variables, and init/term events. This stuff is SO common that you can literally cut and paste it from a "template class" into a new class and save that and have a new working class. The framework class dclsFW is just the foundation of the framework, it is NOT the skeleton itself. Because Access is so Form-centric I have an entire skeleton for forms and controls. Thus I have a form class named dclsFrm. This class is instantiated by any form that wants to use my framework (90% or more in my databases) in the form's OnOpen. Each form has a "form global" (dimensioned PUBLIC) variable for the dclsFrm, and instantiates it in OnOpen, then calls the init of dclsFrm passing in a pointer to itself. dclsFrm then stores that pointer to the form in a private variable in it's header. dclsFrm is the foundation of the FORM skeleton if you will, but it uses services provided by dclsFW (the framework foundation class). dclsFrm also SINKS EVERY form event. The private form variable in dclsFrm's header is dimensioned WithEvents and I then built event stubs for every single form event. The ONLY one that doesn't actually function is OnOpen and that is because the class is instantiated in the form's built-in class in OnOpen and therefore by the time dclsFrm loads OnOpen has come and gone. One implication of this is that NO FORM is lightweight since it must have its built-in class to store the pointer to my dclsFrm, and of course an OnOpen to set and initialize dclsFrm. Just as we have a class for the form, EVERY data aware control has a class which I name dclsCtlCbo, dclsCtlTxt, dclsCtlGrp etc. mostly so that all of the control classes will group together in the module window, but also because it makes it obvious that these classes are control classes. dclsFrm has a private function called from its Init() which I call FindControls (very descriptive I know). This function iterates the form's Control Collection. Remember that dclsFrm was passed a pointer to the form by the form itself as it initialized dclsFrm. As I iterate the control collection I have a large case statement that basically says: for each ctl in frm.controls select case ctl.ControlType case "textbox" 'instantiate the text box control class case "combo" 'instantiate the combo class etc end select next ctl Thus as each control is examined I discover the type of the control, I load an instance of the class for that type of control and pass in a pointer to the control. I save all of these control classes into a collection. By the time FindControls is finished I have loaded a class instance for EVERY control on the form (more or less), and each of those control class instances has a pointer to it's control. As I do in the form, I dim the control variable in each control class Withevents and build event sinks for the control events. In this case I am a little more lenient and only build event sinks for the events I actually use. I did this partly because I don't use many of the key events and mouse events (in every control) and didn't want the overhead of those event stubs being called all the time. Now this sounds like a LOT of work, and a LOT of overhead. It is a lot of work, but in fact very little overhead. It turns out that classes load the entire class ONE TIME, then only a new header section (global variables) for each additional instance of that class type. Thus if I load 10 combo class instances, only one loads completely, then just the header of the other 9. All of the code is shared... unless there are static variables in the functions which is handled appropriately such that each class instance has it's own static variables. I ran some timing awhile back on a VERY complex form with dozens of controls. What I discovered is that on an old 100 mhz Pentium of the day, the overhead was one half of one millisecond per class instance, to load each instance. Folks, that is NOTHING compared to the time to load the data for example. And of course that was a sloooooowwwwww computer compared to what we have now. So there you have it. By the time dclsFrm loads, it also loads a class for each data aware class on the form. The form's skeleton is built and loaded. Now that I have classes for each control and the form, and these classes sinking all the necessary events, I can add functionality to each class as desired. All of the various things you have heard me discuss in the "in my framework I do..." emails are nothing more than discovering the code required to do this stuff, then putting it out in the classes in the framework. Let's take a working example. Every data aware control may be referenced by a combo, list or subform in the SQL statement or query that loads the data into these objects. Thus a combo can be "filtered" by another combo, or by a check box, or by a text box etc. I call the object being filtered a "dependent object" because its dataset depends on some other control (or controls). In ALL of my classes for data aware controls I have a collection which I call colDepObjs. So every combo, list, textbox, checkbox etc. class has this collection. It also has a function which allows me to pass in to the class a list of controls that are dependent on that control, i.e. whose data is filtered by that control. A pointer to these controls (or their class actually) are stored in colDepObjs. Each class also has a public RequeryDepObjs method which can be called. This method... you guessed it... iterates the dependent object collection and calls the requery method of every class in the collection. Thus is 3 combos are dependent on ComboA, calling ComboA.RequeryDependentObjects causes requery ,method of the class for comboB, ComboC, and ComboD. The requery method requeries the actual control (combo or list etc) but also calls its own RequeryDependentObjects method which ... calls the Requery method of any classes in its colDepObj. In order to use this functionality, all I have to do is call a function of a class passing in pointers to the controls that are dependent on this control. Now, when ComboA AfterUpdate fires (remember I sink the events in the control classes) the AfterUpdate calls it's RequeryDependentObjects which starts the ball rolling requerying all dependent objects down the chain. One of the things that has been critical to efficiently handling all this stuff is my framework SysVar table. In my SysVar table I can turn on/off functionality for the entire framework (all forms for example) or for a specific service. As an example I have a sysvar that says "turn on the ZIP/Unzip service classes. I leave them turned off under normal circumstances. However if a specific application needs zip/unzip functionality, I can OVERRIDE the Sysvar by reading framework sysvars out of a table in the FE. Thus for that FE I can turn on/off the zip/unzip service classes, and having done so, I can now just call a property of the framework to get the zip class, call a method and zip up a file. Likewise I can turn on / off a form behavior for a specific application. I can also override form behaviors on a form by form basis so that one form has the behavior while the next does not. Doing things this way allows me to tailor the framework for a specific application, even down to tailoring it for specific forms. I hope this email has started you thinking about frameworks, how you would use them and what you would do with them. If you ever take the time to build one you will never look back. Frameworks are an awesome tool that takes an already RAD environment (Access) and allows you to plop down a skeleton on which you build your app. Imagine being able to tell the client "I can build your skyscraper in 1/10th the time because I already have the skeleton done". Just add walls and windows and move in next week. (Ok, next month). We all know that the data design is a critical piece which I have not addressed here at all, but once that part is done, building forms should be much more standardized than the way many developers do it. I am going to stop here to allow anyone to ask questions, or other developers who have their own frameworks to pipe in with "this is what I do". John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com From DMcAfee at haascnc.com Wed Mar 3 21:30:19 2004 From: DMcAfee at haascnc.com (David McAfee) Date: Wed, 3 Mar 2004 19:30:19 -0800 Subject: [AccessD] Add All to List Message-ID: <657FB70438B7D311AF320090279C1801061440EA@EXCHMAIL> Virginia, this kicked my butt when I first started messing with it. The MS samples in Help confused me more :). Picture it this way: You have 2 tables, tblEmployees and tblCalls sample data: tblEmployees: (EmployeeID, EmployeeName) 1 Bob 2 Joe 3 Tim tblCalls: (CallID, CallDate, PhoneTechID, Notes) (I'll eliminate other fields to avoid confusion) 1 2/5/04 3 "test data entered by Tim" 2 2/5/04 2 "test data entered by Joe" 3 2/6/04 3 "test data entered by Tim" 4 2/6/04 1 "test data entered by Bob" 5 2/7/04 2 "test data entered by Joe" You create a form with 3 controls on it: txtStartDate, txtEndDate and cboEmployee The rowsource for the combobox is simply: SELECT tblEmployees.EmployeeID, tblEmployees.EmployeeName FROM tblEmployees; UNION SELECT "*", "All" FROM tblEmployees; Your boss wants a query on weekly calls in February, by employee and an overall list. He says Feb, but will asks for January and March five minutes later, because that's how he is ;) You create the following query: SELECT C.CallID C.CallDate, C.Notes, E.EmployeeName AS PhoneTech FROM tblCalls AS C INNER JOIN tblEmployees AS E ON C.PhoneTechID = tblEmployee.EmployeeID WHERE (C.CallDate >= [Forms]![frmReport]![txtStartDate] And C.CallDate <=[Forms]![frmReport]![txtEndDate]) AND (([Forms]![frmReport]![cboEmployee]="*") Or ([Forms]![frmReport]![cboEmployee]=[EmployeeID]))=True ORDER BY C.CallDate; The ticket here (if you are using the QBE grid), is to create an expression / criteria which is true (see the 2nd line in the WHERE clause). So now you open up your form, enter dates of 2/5/04 and 2/09/04, drop the combobox down and choose Tim. The criteria runs and the column criteria of EmployeeID = True is satisfied, so all of Tim's calls show. Now you select "All", the criteria cboEmployee = "*" is satisfied, so all rows are returned. I hope this helps. David McAfee dmcafee at pacbell.net > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Hollis,Virginia" > To: "'Access Developers discussion and problem solving'" > > Sent: Wednesday, March 03, 2004 4:29 PM > Subject: RE: [AccessD] Add All to List > > > > I don't know what I am doing wrong.... The all shows at the top of the > list, > > but All the records do not show on the subform. The combobox is still > > showing the first record when it opens and the subform is filtered for > that > > record. > > > > What makes the All part of "ALL" in the combo box work? > > > > Virginia > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: William Hindman [mailto:wdhindman at bellsouth.net] > > Sent: Wednesday, March 03, 2004 8:09 AM > > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > > Subject: Re: [AccessD] Add All to List > > > > > > Virginia > > > > ...use a UNION SELECT in the combo record source to add an ALL. > > > > ...example: > > > > SELECT DISTINCTROW Customers.Company, Customers.[Customer Number] FROM > > Customers UNION SELECT "","" FROM Customers ORDER BY > Customers.Company; > > > > William Hindman "My idea of an agreeable person is a person who agrees > with > > me." Disraeli > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: "Hollis,Virginia" > > To: > > Sent: Wednesday, March 03, 2004 8:45 AM > > Subject: [AccessD] Add All to List > > > > > > > How do you add All to List? This form contains 2 combo boxes on a main > > form. > > > Selecting data shows data on a subform for the related combo box > choices. > > > > > > I need to either have an All in the combo boxes or when the form opens, > I > > > would like them to be blank. > > > > > > I tried this code in the On Open of the main form, but it still opens > to > > > the first record with entries in both combo boxes. > > > > > > With Me > > > .cboNCSANo = "" > > > .cboProcedure = "" > > > End With From stuart at pacific.net.hk Wed Mar 3 21:42:52 2004 From: stuart at pacific.net.hk (Stuart Sanders) Date: Thu, 4 Mar 2004 11:42:52 +0800 Subject: [AccessD] Frameworks, what are they? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <001701c4019a$c6518880$3d0d40ca@nbbits01> I started moving to a class based framework in the latter part of last year, and I had briefly at the time talked about it with Robert when we were working on LWS. I haven't worked on it much recently, but basic functionality is added. Personally I think of a framework as a skeleton of what the app needs. Much like a framework for a QA document, or a book. In the book example a framework (or layout) might contain a front cover, forward, contents, and chapters. If you are always doing the same kind of book you might even include all the chapters (eg the Dummies books follow a framework layout). In access (or other dev tool) the framework will mostly likely start with standard forms/queries and tables that are in all apps you deploy - splash, menu, maintenance tools (compact and repair, backup, etc), Sysvars like tables. It will also likely have forms and supporting tables and queries for things that are used often. Perhaps things like registration forms, security, etc. For class driven systems you would then start with basic stuff and build on it. For example to start with you make a form class handle standard events. You do this by calling the class in the form open event, it then fires up and does whatever you have set it up to do. Typically this would include embedding standard form events into the class. It would also be extended to standard form objects (eg if you often use an undo button, save button, etc), and as you extend it you may have the class scan for control types and add standard calls. Generally for events that I embed into the class I also add a call to the local form to a "local" event in case there is any form specific stuff. So the current event calls a function call on the form called "FormLocalOnCurrent" or something like that. At this stage I have two form classes. One for lookup forms and one for standard forms. A lookup form is a simplified data maintenance form for tables that don't have any foreign keys or complex data. Usually just lists, but may have multiple fields. The classes handle all standard buttons, code behind most controls (beforeupdate etc) and some other generic stuff. So if you look at the forms there is a lot less code behind it doing the driving. In some cases just the calls to the class to initialise and terminate. I also have a bunch of other classes that are supportive in nature. For example there are classes for standard control like text boxes, combo boxes, checkboxes etc that the form controls call when initialising the controls collection. There is a class for handling a list of strings for things like form open arguments. (CustomerID=123456;Arg2=???) For controls, I have adopted some naming conventions, so text controls would only get embedded if their name started with txt. A text control with txd is a date field, and has some other additional code for calendaring etc. I've also created formtemplates for building a class driven form. So I copy the template and start dropping in controls. Basica form functionality will be handled without additional work I've also moved over some personal dev tools such as a form maker for building lookup forms. These get removed at deployment time but the forms it creates stay. I will see about putting up a demo at some stage on just the class related stuff I have done so far, as what I have done so far is likely to be a lot simpler than older frameworks. Won't have time until at least next week though. I would also be interested in seeing older frameworks. At this stage mine draws heavily on examples by John from LWS and another developer I work with here occasionally (doesn't inhabit this list and doesn't use access much anymore). Some things John does I have adopted (eg registering classes into a collection - helps with debugging particularly as class debugging can occasionaly get annoying, and sysvars though I have adopted a slightly different approach) Stuart > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of > Robert Gracie > Sent: Thursday, 4 March 2004 9:56 AM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: RE: [AccessD] Frameworks, what are they? > > > Ok so what are the basic "bones" if you will of a framework? The basic > skeleton I guess. > > Robert Gracie > > ************************* > > I am going to cc the list however. We have many developers who have > developed their own framework. I have never seen anyone > else's so I can't > vouch for how complex they are now how conceptually similar > to what I do, > but if we address the list, perhaps we can get a discussion > going on this > stuff. > > John W. Colby > www.ColbyConsulting.com > > -----Original Message----- > From: Robert Gracie [mailto:Robert at servicexp.com] > Sent: Wednesday, March 03, 2004 8:18 PM > To: jcolby at colbyconsulting.com > Subject: I have a question > > > John, > I have really appreciated the help over the last few months > in regards to > "DEEP" programming, your examples have been very helpful. I'm > intrigued with > "framework" idea however I have no idea where to get started. > My question > is; do you have any examples of a running "framework", or any > books that > explain how to set this sort of thing up? > > Thanks Again!! > Robert Gracie > > > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > From jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com Wed Mar 3 22:43:09 2004 From: jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com (John W. Colby) Date: Wed, 3 Mar 2004 23:43:09 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Frameworks, what are they? In-Reply-To: <001701c4019a$c6518880$3d0d40ca@nbbits01> Message-ID: >In access (or other dev tool) the framework will mostly likely start with standard forms/queries and tables that are in all apps you deploy - splash, menu, maintenance tools (compact and repair, backup, etc),Sysvars like tables. It will also likely have forms and supporting tables and queries for things that are used often. Perhaps things like registration forms, security, etc. This is a perfect example of a different (from mine) equally valid definition of a Framework. It is really a different level of framework, mine addresses the structure of ANY form along with system services, whereas this definition addresses common tools, or business objects. Both of these concepts are useful, and are in no way exclusive of using the other. John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Stuart Sanders Sent: Wednesday, March 03, 2004 10:43 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: [AccessD] Frameworks, what are they? I started moving to a class based framework in the latter part of last year, and I had briefly at the time talked about it with Robert when we were working on LWS. I haven't worked on it much recently, but basic functionality is added. Personally I think of a framework as a skeleton of what the app needs. Much like a framework for a QA document, or a book. In the book example a framework (or layout) might contain a front cover, forward, contents, and chapters. If you are always doing the same kind of book you might even include all the chapters (eg the Dummies books follow a framework layout). In access (or other dev tool) the framework will mostly likely start with standard forms/queries and tables that are in all apps you deploy - splash, menu, maintenance tools (compact and repair, backup, etc), Sysvars like tables. It will also likely have forms and supporting tables and queries for things that are used often. Perhaps things like registration forms, security, etc. For class driven systems you would then start with basic stuff and build on it. For example to start with you make a form class handle standard events. You do this by calling the class in the form open event, it then fires up and does whatever you have set it up to do. Typically this would include embedding standard form events into the class. It would also be extended to standard form objects (eg if you often use an undo button, save button, etc), and as you extend it you may have the class scan for control types and add standard calls. Generally for events that I embed into the class I also add a call to the local form to a "local" event in case there is any form specific stuff. So the current event calls a function call on the form called "FormLocalOnCurrent" or something like that. At this stage I have two form classes. One for lookup forms and one for standard forms. A lookup form is a simplified data maintenance form for tables that don't have any foreign keys or complex data. Usually just lists, but may have multiple fields. The classes handle all standard buttons, code behind most controls (beforeupdate etc) and some other generic stuff. So if you look at the forms there is a lot less code behind it doing the driving. In some cases just the calls to the class to initialise and terminate. I also have a bunch of other classes that are supportive in nature. For example there are classes for standard control like text boxes, combo boxes, checkboxes etc that the form controls call when initialising the controls collection. There is a class for handling a list of strings for things like form open arguments. (CustomerID=123456;Arg2=???) For controls, I have adopted some naming conventions, so text controls would only get embedded if their name started with txt. A text control with txd is a date field, and has some other additional code for calendaring etc. I've also created formtemplates for building a class driven form. So I copy the template and start dropping in controls. Basica form functionality will be handled without additional work I've also moved over some personal dev tools such as a form maker for building lookup forms. These get removed at deployment time but the forms it creates stay. I will see about putting up a demo at some stage on just the class related stuff I have done so far, as what I have done so far is likely to be a lot simpler than older frameworks. Won't have time until at least next week though. I would also be interested in seeing older frameworks. At this stage mine draws heavily on examples by John from LWS and another developer I work with here occasionally (doesn't inhabit this list and doesn't use access much anymore). Some things John does I have adopted (eg registering classes into a collection - helps with debugging particularly as class debugging can occasionaly get annoying, and sysvars though I have adopted a slightly different approach) Stuart > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of > Robert Gracie > Sent: Thursday, 4 March 2004 9:56 AM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: RE: [AccessD] Frameworks, what are they? > > > Ok so what are the basic "bones" if you will of a framework? The basic > skeleton I guess. > > Robert Gracie > > ************************* > > I am going to cc the list however. We have many developers who have > developed their own framework. I have never seen anyone > else's so I can't > vouch for how complex they are now how conceptually similar > to what I do, > but if we address the list, perhaps we can get a discussion > going on this > stuff. > > John W. Colby > www.ColbyConsulting.com > > -----Original Message----- > From: Robert Gracie [mailto:Robert at servicexp.com] > Sent: Wednesday, March 03, 2004 8:18 PM > To: jcolby at colbyconsulting.com > Subject: I have a question > > > John, > I have really appreciated the help over the last few months > in regards to > "DEEP" programming, your examples have been very helpful. I'm > intrigued with > "framework" idea however I have no idea where to get started. > My question > is; do you have any examples of a running "framework", or any > books that > explain how to set this sort of thing up? > > Thanks Again!! > Robert Gracie > > > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com Wed Mar 3 22:53:23 2004 From: jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com (John W. Colby) Date: Wed, 3 Mar 2004 23:53:23 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Frameworks, what are they? In-Reply-To: <001701c4019a$c6518880$3d0d40ca@nbbits01> Message-ID: >Generally for events that I embed into the class I also add a call to the local form to a "local" event in case there is any form specific stuff. So the current event calls a function call on the form called "FormLocalOnCurrent" or something like that. In my case I dimension my dclsFrm (my forms class) Withevents in the form. dclsFrmRAISES events in every event it sinks, which I call AfterXXX where XXX is the event name. AfterOnOpen for example. Any parameters passed in by the event sink from the form I pass right on out to the AfterXXX event I raise. Thus the form can sink my AfterAfterUpdate and perform any processing it needs to do after my form class has done its processing. The thing to understand here is that if an event stub for an event exists in the form's built-in class, control is transferred there FIRST, then to the event stub in my class, and then (because I raise an event in my event stubs) to the AfterXXX event in the form (if any). Having a form call an event in a form is "ass backwards" so to speak. We sink events from objects such as controls or forms. Those objects never call MY functions! My classes raise events as well and if any other control needs to sink those events then they do. By dimming my dclsFrm Withevents, the form can sink the events generated by my class if it needs to do so. John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Stuart Sanders Sent: Wednesday, March 03, 2004 10:43 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: [AccessD] Frameworks, what are they? I started moving to a class based framework in the latter part of last year, and I had briefly at the time talked about it with Robert when we were working on LWS. I haven't worked on it much recently, but basic functionality is added. Personally I think of a framework as a skeleton of what the app needs. Much like a framework for a QA document, or a book. In the book example a framework (or layout) might contain a front cover, forward, contents, and chapters. If you are always doing the same kind of book you might even include all the chapters (eg the Dummies books follow a framework layout). In access (or other dev tool) the framework will mostly likely start with standard forms/queries and tables that are in all apps you deploy - splash, menu, maintenance tools (compact and repair, backup, etc), Sysvars like tables. It will also likely have forms and supporting tables and queries for things that are used often. Perhaps things like registration forms, security, etc. For class driven systems you would then start with basic stuff and build on it. For example to start with you make a form class handle standard events. You do this by calling the class in the form open event, it then fires up and does whatever you have set it up to do. Typically this would include embedding standard form events into the class. It would also be extended to standard form objects (eg if you often use an undo button, save button, etc), and as you extend it you may have the class scan for control types and add standard calls. Generally for events that I embed into the class I also add a call to the local form to a "local" event in case there is any form specific stuff. So the current event calls a function call on the form called "FormLocalOnCurrent" or something like that. At this stage I have two form classes. One for lookup forms and one for standard forms. A lookup form is a simplified data maintenance form for tables that don't have any foreign keys or complex data. Usually just lists, but may have multiple fields. The classes handle all standard buttons, code behind most controls (beforeupdate etc) and some other generic stuff. So if you look at the forms there is a lot less code behind it doing the driving. In some cases just the calls to the class to initialise and terminate. I also have a bunch of other classes that are supportive in nature. For example there are classes for standard control like text boxes, combo boxes, checkboxes etc that the form controls call when initialising the controls collection. There is a class for handling a list of strings for things like form open arguments. (CustomerID=123456;Arg2=???) For controls, I have adopted some naming conventions, so text controls would only get embedded if their name started with txt. A text control with txd is a date field, and has some other additional code for calendaring etc. I've also created formtemplates for building a class driven form. So I copy the template and start dropping in controls. Basica form functionality will be handled without additional work I've also moved over some personal dev tools such as a form maker for building lookup forms. These get removed at deployment time but the forms it creates stay. I will see about putting up a demo at some stage on just the class related stuff I have done so far, as what I have done so far is likely to be a lot simpler than older frameworks. Won't have time until at least next week though. I would also be interested in seeing older frameworks. At this stage mine draws heavily on examples by John from LWS and another developer I work with here occasionally (doesn't inhabit this list and doesn't use access much anymore). Some things John does I have adopted (eg registering classes into a collection - helps with debugging particularly as class debugging can occasionaly get annoying, and sysvars though I have adopted a slightly different approach) Stuart > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of > Robert Gracie > Sent: Thursday, 4 March 2004 9:56 AM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: RE: [AccessD] Frameworks, what are they? > > > Ok so what are the basic "bones" if you will of a framework? The basic > skeleton I guess. > > Robert Gracie > > ************************* > > I am going to cc the list however. We have many developers who have > developed their own framework. I have never seen anyone > else's so I can't > vouch for how complex they are now how conceptually similar > to what I do, > but if we address the list, perhaps we can get a discussion > going on this > stuff. > > John W. Colby > www.ColbyConsulting.com > > -----Original Message----- > From: Robert Gracie [mailto:Robert at servicexp.com] > Sent: Wednesday, March 03, 2004 8:18 PM > To: jcolby at colbyconsulting.com > Subject: I have a question > > > John, > I have really appreciated the help over the last few months > in regards to > "DEEP" programming, your examples have been very helpful. I'm > intrigued with > "framework" idea however I have no idea where to get started. > My question > is; do you have any examples of a running "framework", or any > books that > explain how to set this sort of thing up? > > Thanks Again!! > Robert Gracie > > > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From stuart at pacific.net.hk Wed Mar 3 22:52:06 2004 From: stuart at pacific.net.hk (Stuart Sanders) Date: Thu, 4 Mar 2004 12:52:06 +0800 Subject: [AccessD] Frameworks, what are they? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <002101c401a4$71686d70$3d0d40ca@nbbits01> > -----Original Message----- > This is a perfect example of a different (from mine) equally valid > definition of a Framework. It is really a different level of > framework, > mine addresses the structure of ANY form along with system services, > whereas this definition addresses common tools, or business objects. Mine is intended to also address the structure of any form (at least it will), but I consider other parts of the skeleton (such as common tools) as part of "my" framework and what drives my apps. The common tools and application objects will hook into and use the class driven aspect of the framework. Stuart From ayishakca at yahoo.ca Wed Mar 3 23:03:47 2004 From: ayishakca at yahoo.ca (Ayisha) Date: Thu, 4 Mar 2004 08:03:47 +0300 Subject: [AccessD] Form In Background References: <618EB4D6DDCDD3119B0A00508B6FD37A0CB0D226@cntexchange.pgdp.usec.com> Message-ID: <002d01c401a7$45398420$02d15dd4@ali> Is there any way that i can hide a linked form in background???? Ayisha From stuart at pacific.net.hk Wed Mar 3 23:42:46 2004 From: stuart at pacific.net.hk (Stuart Sanders) Date: Thu, 4 Mar 2004 13:42:46 +0800 Subject: [AccessD] Frameworks, what are they? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <000001c401ab$85bfa020$2a00a8c0@nbbits01> Hehe Like I said I started moving it to a class driven system, and its far from finished, though I have it workable so to speak. Maybe I need to revisit your dclsFrm. When I started this it was a job just to get my head around some of the things that were going on. I do raise events in the class for the built in events.... Perhaps my terminology isn't up to scratch. Essentially what I do is the following. Form_OnOpen: calls class initialisation Class: -sets reference to self -registers with class collection -some other checks and settings -sets reference to parent -sinks form events -sinks standard buttons -scans form and sinks control classes -gets open args and puts in collection -checks if audit fields are present -other stuff Passes control to mtdLocalFormOpen on the form which: -sets form specific stuff like attached table, primary key, etc -handles form specific open args So what I meant was now the events are embedded into the class (sunk if you prefer). If a form current event occurs, then the class handles Form_Current first. Does its stuff and then passes control to the form if a custom form specific function for current event exists. Form_Current doesn't exist on the form. Sounds pretty much like what you do. As I said above, it is probably time to revisit dclsform. Stuart > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of > John W. Colby > Sent: Thursday, 4 March 2004 12:53 PM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: RE: [AccessD] Frameworks, what are they? > > > >Generally for events that I embed into the class I also add > a call to the > local form to a "local" event in case there is any form > specific stuff. So > the current event calls a function call on the form called > "FormLocalOnCurrent" or something like that. > > In my case I dimension my dclsFrm (my forms class) Withevents > in the form. > dclsFrmRAISES events in every event it sinks, which I call > AfterXXX where > XXX is the event name. AfterOnOpen for example. Any > parameters passed in > by the event sink from the form I pass right on out to the > AfterXXX event I > raise. Thus the form can sink my AfterAfterUpdate and perform any > processing it needs to do after my form class has done its processing. > > The thing to understand here is that if an event stub for an > event exists in > the form's built-in class, control is transferred there > FIRST, then to the > event stub in my class, and then (because I raise an event in my event > stubs) to the AfterXXX event in the form (if any). > > Having a form call an event in a form is "ass backwards" so > to speak. We > sink events from objects such as controls or forms. Those > objects never > call MY functions! My classes raise events as well and if > any other control > needs to sink those events then they do. By dimming my > dclsFrm Withevents, > the form can sink the events generated by my class if it > needs to do so. > > > John W. Colby > www.ColbyConsulting.com > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of > Stuart Sanders > Sent: Wednesday, March 03, 2004 10:43 PM > To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' > Subject: RE: [AccessD] Frameworks, what are they? > > > I started moving to a class based framework in the latter part of last > year, and I had briefly at the time talked about it with > Robert when we > were working on LWS. I haven't worked on it much recently, but basic > functionality is added. > > Personally I think of a framework as a skeleton of what the app needs. > Much like a framework for a QA document, or a book. In the > book example > a framework (or layout) might contain a front cover, forward, > contents, > and chapters. If you are always doing the same kind of book you might > even include all the chapters (eg the Dummies books follow a framework > layout). > > In access (or other dev tool) the framework will mostly likely start > with standard forms/queries and tables that are in all apps > you deploy - > splash, menu, maintenance tools (compact and repair, backup, etc), > Sysvars like tables. > > It will also likely have forms and supporting tables and queries for > things that are used often. Perhaps things like registration forms, > security, etc. > > For class driven systems you would then start with basic > stuff and build > on it. For example to start with you make a form class > handle standard > events. You do this by calling the class in the form open event, it > then fires up and does whatever you have set it up to do. Typically > this would include embedding standard form events into the class. It > would also be extended to standard form objects (eg if you > often use an > undo button, save button, etc), and as you extend it you may have the > class scan for control types and add standard calls. > > Generally for events that I embed into the class I also add a call to > the local form to a "local" event in case there is any form specific > stuff. So the current event calls a function call on the form called > "FormLocalOnCurrent" or something like that. > > At this stage I have two form classes. One for lookup forms > and one for > standard forms. A lookup form is a simplified data > maintenance form for > tables that don't have any foreign keys or complex data. Usually just > lists, but may have multiple fields. The classes handle all standard > buttons, code behind most controls (beforeupdate etc) and some other > generic stuff. So if you look at the forms there is a lot less code > behind it doing the driving. In some cases just the calls to > the class > to initialise and terminate. > > I also have a bunch of other classes that are supportive in > nature. For > example there are classes for standard control like text boxes, combo > boxes, checkboxes etc that the form controls call when > initialising the > controls collection. There is a class for handling a list of strings > for things like form open arguments. (CustomerID=123456;Arg2=???) > > For controls, I have adopted some naming conventions, so text controls > would only get embedded if their name started with txt. A > text control > with txd is a date field, and has some other additional code for > calendaring etc. > > I've also created formtemplates for building a class driven > form. So I > copy the template and start dropping in controls. Basica form > functionality will be handled without additional work > > I've also moved over some personal dev tools such as a form maker for > building lookup forms. These get removed at deployment time but the > forms it creates stay. > > I will see about putting up a demo at some stage on just the class > related stuff I have done so far, as what I have done so far is likely > to be a lot simpler than older frameworks. Won't have time until at > least next week though. > > I would also be interested in seeing older frameworks. At this stage > mine draws heavily on examples by John from LWS and another > developer I > work with here occasionally (doesn't inhabit this list and doesn't use > access much anymore). Some things John does I have adopted (eg > registering classes into a collection - helps with debugging > particularly as class debugging can occasionaly get annoying, and > sysvars though I have adopted a slightly different approach) > > Stuart > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of > > Robert Gracie > > Sent: Thursday, 4 March 2004 9:56 AM > > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > > Subject: RE: [AccessD] Frameworks, what are they? > > > > > > Ok so what are the basic "bones" if you will of a > framework? The basic > > skeleton I guess. > > > > Robert Gracie > > > > ************************* > > > > I am going to cc the list however. We have many developers who have > > developed their own framework. I have never seen anyone > > else's so I can't > > vouch for how complex they are now how conceptually similar > > to what I do, > > but if we address the list, perhaps we can get a discussion > > going on this > > stuff. > > > > John W. Colby > > www.ColbyConsulting.com > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: Robert Gracie [mailto:Robert at servicexp.com] > > Sent: Wednesday, March 03, 2004 8:18 PM > > To: jcolby at colbyconsulting.com > > Subject: I have a question > > > > > > John, > > I have really appreciated the help over the last few months > > in regards to > > "DEEP" programming, your examples have been very helpful. I'm > > intrigued with > > "framework" idea however I have no idea where to get started. > > My question > > is; do you have any examples of a running "framework", or any > > books that > > explain how to set this sort of thing up? > > > > Thanks Again!! > > Robert Gracie > > > > > > -- > > _______________________________________________ > > AccessD mailing list > > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > > > -- > > _______________________________________________ > > AccessD mailing list > > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > From accessd667 at yahoo.com Thu Mar 4 02:48:28 2004 From: accessd667 at yahoo.com (S D) Date: Thu, 4 Mar 2004 00:48:28 -0800 (PST) Subject: [AccessD] Re: Create scripts: CreateTable? BEU? In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.2.20040303084820.02ac1628@pop3.highstream.net> Message-ID: <20040304084828.5850.qmail@web61108.mail.yahoo.com> First of all thnx for all the replies (as always!) Robert you are CORRECT!! They DO NOT understand Access, I've often got a response like "In Oracle that's no problem...." aahrggg. I've designed a new plan! I'm using functionality in my code to check if certain tables exist in a temp-db. If not I'm going to create them using maketable queries. i'm going to use something similar for this. Question: What is BEU? Never heard of it. Again many thnx. Sander PS: I'll continue on the create-table-thingy if, and when, I finish it I'll post it. "Robert L. Stewart" wrote: >From the sound of the letter, he is dealing with a QA group that will not allow the promotion of the actual MDB with the tables in it to a production environment. They do not understand how Access works. They want a script that will create the tables. He could actually create a Create Data File under Utilities on his menu system that could create the tables, but it is a lot of code to do it. At 08:09 AM 3/3/2004 -0600, you wrote: >Date: Tue, 2 Mar 2004 19:18:25 -0500 >From: "Developer" >Subject: RE: [AccessD] Re: Create scripts: CreateTable? >To: "'Access Developers discussion and problem solving'" > >Message-ID: <001c01c400b5$0e93e2f0$7001a8c0 at COA3> >Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" > >Robert: >I thought that at first, but if that was the case, why not just send the >client the empty .mdb? > >Communication is key ... Lol > >Steve -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com --------------------------------- Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Search - Find what you?re looking for faster. From accessd667 at yahoo.com Thu Mar 4 02:54:15 2004 From: accessd667 at yahoo.com (S D) Date: Thu, 4 Mar 2004 00:54:15 -0800 (PST) Subject: [AccessD] Re: Create scripts: CreateTable? BEU? SOLVED In-Reply-To: <20040304084828.5850.qmail@web61108.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <20040304085415.6766.qmail@web61102.mail.yahoo.com> Sorry group, I missed the mail from Bryan regarding the Back End Upgrader. I'm having a look at it now. Regards, Sander S D wrote: First of all thnx for all the replies (as always!) Robert you are CORRECT!! They DO NOT understand Access, I've often got a response like "In Oracle that's no problem...." aahrggg. I've designed a new plan! I'm using functionality in my code to check if certain tables exist in a temp-db. If not I'm going to create them using maketable queries. i'm going to use something similar for this. Question: What is BEU? Never heard of it. Again many thnx. Sander PS: I'll continue on the create-table-thingy if, and when, I finish it I'll post it. "Robert L. Stewart" wrote: >From the sound of the letter, he is dealing with a QA group that will not allow the promotion of the actual MDB with the tables in it to a production environment. They do not understand how Access works. They want a script that will create the tables. He could actually create a Create Data File under Utilities on his menu system that could create the tables, but it is a lot of code to do it. At 08:09 AM 3/3/2004 -0600, you wrote: >Date: Tue, 2 Mar 2004 19:18:25 -0500 >From: "Developer" >Subject: RE: [AccessD] Re: Create scripts: CreateTable? >To: "'Access Developers discussion and problem solving'" > >Message-ID: <001c01c400b5$0e93e2f0$7001a8c0 at COA3> >Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" > >Robert: >I thought that at first, but if that was the case, why not just send the >client the empty .mdb? > >Communication is key ... Lol > >Steve -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com --------------------------------- Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Search - Find what you?re looking for faster. -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com --------------------------------- Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Search - Find what you?re looking for faster. From accessd667 at yahoo.com Thu Mar 4 03:34:28 2004 From: accessd667 at yahoo.com (S D) Date: Thu, 4 Mar 2004 01:34:28 -0800 (PST) Subject: [AccessD] OT: MZ-Tools, Smart Indenter Message-ID: <20040304093428.91097.qmail@web61105.mail.yahoo.com> Hi group, For those who do not use MZ-Tools and/ or Smart Indenter. Check 'm out! Great free tools that save a lot of time. Sander PS: I didn't build these or anything like it. I only use them :-) --------------------------------- Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Search - Find what you?re looking for faster. From rsmethurst at UK.EY.COM Thu Mar 4 04:41:36 2004 From: rsmethurst at UK.EY.COM (rsmethurst at UK.EY.COM) Date: Thu, 4 Mar 2004 10:41:36 +0000 Subject: [AccessD] Update Problem Message-ID: Hi All, I have a very strange problem with a table that I am updating using an Insert Into statement. Basically, if I set a breakpoint and step through the code, all works fine. If however I do not, and simply let it run, the table is not populated? Has anyone encountered anything like this before? TIA Ryan This e-mail and any attachment are confidential and contain proprietary information, some or all of which may be legally privileged. It is intended solely for the use of the individual or entity to which it is addressed. If you are not the intended recipient, please notify the author immediately by telephone or by replying to this e-mail, and then delete all copies of the e-mail on your system. If you are not the intended recipient, you must not use, disclose, distribute, copy, print or rely on this e-mail. Whilst we have taken reasonable precautions to ensure that this e-mail and any attachment has been checked for viruses, we cannot guarantee that they are virus free and we cannot accept liability for any damage sustained as a result of software viruses. We would advise that you carry out your own virus checks, especially before opening an attachment. The UK firm Ernst & Young LLP is a limited liability partnership registered in England and Wales with registered number OC300001 and is a member practice of Ernst & Young Global. A list of members? names is available for inspection at 1 More London Place, London, SE1 2AF, the firm?s principal place of business and its registered office. From pedro at plex.nl Thu Mar 4 12:33:18 2004 From: pedro at plex.nl (pedro at plex.nl) Date: Thu, 04 Mar 2004 12:33:18 (MET) Subject: [AccessD] MSysTables permissions Message-ID: <200403041133.i24BXIRM014657@mailhostC.plex.net> Hello Group, on a .mdw secured database, i get an error: Error 3033. You don't have permissions for Object MSysTables. This error occurs when logging in as a user, when trying to use a commandbutton on a form. When logging in as administrator everything works fine. When i look at the system Objects, i can't find MSysTables. Nothing about this at the Knowledge Base. Where can i find this table and how is it possible that permissions need to be adjusted voor System Objects? Pedro Janssen From HollisVJ at pgdp.usec.com Thu Mar 4 07:28:45 2004 From: HollisVJ at pgdp.usec.com (Hollis,Virginia) Date: Thu, 04 Mar 2004 07:28:45 -0600 Subject: [AccessD] Add All to List Message-ID: <618EB4D6DDCDD3119B0A00508B6FD37A0CB0D22C@cntexchange.pgdp.usec.com> Still struggling... On the recordsource for the combo box I put: SELECT tbl_NCSA.NCSAID, tbl_NCSA.NCSANo FROM tbl_NCSA; UNION SELECT "*", "All" FROM tbl_NCSA; This gets me the word ALL in the list. Then on the AfterUpdate of cboNCSANo, I put (this gives me a type mismatch when I select All): If Me![cboNCSANo] = "All" Then DoCmd.ShowAllRecords Else DoCmd.ApplyFilter , "[NCSAID] = " & str(Me![cboNCSANo]) End If Va. -----Original Message----- From: William Hindman [mailto:wdhindman at bellsouth.net] Sent: Wednesday, March 03, 2004 4:07 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Add All to List ...the easiest way is to "if" the combo's after update event :) After Update Event cboCustomer If Me![cboCustomer] = "" Then DoCmd ShowAllRecords Else DoCmd ApplyFilter , "[State] = Forms![cboCustomer]![cboCustomer]" End If William Hindman "My idea of an agreeable person is a person who agrees with me." Disraeli ----- Original Message ----- From: "Hollis,Virginia" To: "'Access Developers discussion and problem solving'" Sent: Wednesday, March 03, 2004 4:29 PM Subject: RE: [AccessD] Add All to List > I don't know what I am doing wrong.... The all shows at the top of the list, > but All the records do not show on the subform. The combobox is still > showing the first record when it opens and the subform is filtered for that > record. > > What makes the All part of "ALL" in the combo box work? > > Virginia > > -----Original Message----- > From: William Hindman [mailto:wdhindman at bellsouth.net] > Sent: Wednesday, March 03, 2004 8:09 AM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: Re: [AccessD] Add All to List > > > Virginia > > ...use a UNION SELECT in the combo record source to add an ALL. > > ...example: > > SELECT DISTINCTROW Customers.Company, Customers.[Customer Number] FROM > Customers UNION SELECT "","" FROM Customers ORDER BY Customers.Company; > > William Hindman "My idea of an agreeable person is a person who agrees with > me." Disraeli > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Hollis,Virginia" > To: > Sent: Wednesday, March 03, 2004 8:45 AM > Subject: [AccessD] Add All to List > > > > How do you add All to List? This form contains 2 combo boxes on a main > form. > > Selecting data shows data on a subform for the related combo box choices. > > > > I need to either have an All in the combo boxes or when the form opens, I > > would like them to be blank. > > > > I tried this code in the On Open of the main form, but it still opens to > > the first record with entries in both combo boxes. > > > > With Me > > .cboNCSANo = "" > > .cboProcedure = "" > > End With > > > > Virginia > > -- > > _______________________________________________ > > AccessD mailing list > > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From Developer at UltraDNT.com Thu Mar 4 08:00:17 2004 From: Developer at UltraDNT.com (Developer) Date: Thu, 4 Mar 2004 09:00:17 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Add All to List In-Reply-To: <618EB4D6DDCDD3119B0A00508B6FD37A0CB0D22C@cntexchange.pgdp.usec.com> Message-ID: <000a01c401f1$0974eb60$7001a8c0@COA3> When you select ALL, your combo is equal to * -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Hollis,Virginia Sent: Thursday, March 04, 2004 8:29 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: [AccessD] Add All to List Still struggling... On the recordsource for the combo box I put: SELECT tbl_NCSA.NCSAID, tbl_NCSA.NCSANo FROM tbl_NCSA; UNION SELECT "*", "All" FROM tbl_NCSA; This gets me the word ALL in the list. Then on the AfterUpdate of cboNCSANo, I put (this gives me a type mismatch when I select All): If Me![cboNCSANo] = "All" Then DoCmd.ShowAllRecords Else DoCmd.ApplyFilter , "[NCSAID] = " & str(Me![cboNCSANo]) End If Va. -----Original Message----- From: William Hindman [mailto:wdhindman at bellsouth.net] Sent: Wednesday, March 03, 2004 4:07 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Add All to List ...the easiest way is to "if" the combo's after update event :) After Update Event cboCustomer If Me![cboCustomer] = "" Then DoCmd ShowAllRecords Else DoCmd ApplyFilter , "[State] = Forms![cboCustomer]![cboCustomer]" End If William Hindman "My idea of an agreeable person is a person who agrees with me." Disraeli ----- Original Message ----- From: "Hollis,Virginia" To: "'Access Developers discussion and problem solving'" Sent: Wednesday, March 03, 2004 4:29 PM Subject: RE: [AccessD] Add All to List > I don't know what I am doing wrong.... The all shows at the top of the list, > but All the records do not show on the subform. The combobox is still > showing the first record when it opens and the subform is filtered for that > record. > > What makes the All part of "ALL" in the combo box work? > > Virginia > > -----Original Message----- > From: William Hindman [mailto:wdhindman at bellsouth.net] > Sent: Wednesday, March 03, 2004 8:09 AM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: Re: [AccessD] Add All to List > > > Virginia > > ...use a UNION SELECT in the combo record source to add an ALL. > > ...example: > > SELECT DISTINCTROW Customers.Company, Customers.[Customer Number] FROM > Customers UNION SELECT "","" FROM Customers ORDER BY Customers.Company; > > William Hindman "My idea of an agreeable person is a person who agrees with > me." Disraeli > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Hollis,Virginia" > To: > Sent: Wednesday, March 03, 2004 8:45 AM > Subject: [AccessD] Add All to List > > > > How do you add All to List? This form contains 2 combo boxes on a > > main > form. > > Selecting data shows data on a subform for the related combo box choices. > > > > I need to either have an All in the combo boxes or when the form > > opens, I > > would like them to be blank. > > > > I tried this code in the On Open of the main form, but it still > > opens to > > the first record with entries in both combo boxes. > > > > With Me > > .cboNCSANo = "" > > .cboProcedure = "" > > End With > > > > Virginia > > -- > > _______________________________________________ > > AccessD mailing list > > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com Thu Mar 4 08:04:00 2004 From: jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com (John W. Colby) Date: Thu, 4 Mar 2004 09:04:00 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Add All to List In-Reply-To: <618EB4D6DDCDD3119B0A00508B6FD37A0CB0D22C@cntexchange.pgdp.usec.com> Message-ID: Is this combo bound to a nontext field? If so then the first column (column(0) must be a numeric value. Furthermore the syntax Me![cboNCSANo] MAY be correct but I don't think so. It should be me!cboNCNSANo The [] generally denotes a field and usually tells the compiler to try and interpret whatever is between the [] as a field name. In any event, whether or not the [] is legal, me!CtlName is definitely valid. Further if I'm not mistaken (assuming that column(0) of the combo is not bound to a numeric field which by itself would be causing your problems) The default property of a combo is column(0) which would contain the value "*" so the case should be if me!CboNCSANo = "*" then else endif You can make it unambiguous in any case by specifying the column you intend to evaluate if me!CboNCSANo.column(0) = "*" then else endif or if me!CboNCSANo.column(1) = "All" then else endif FURTHER... the SQL statement has to use a LIKE instead of an = DoCmd.ApplyFilter , "[NCSAID] LIKE " & str(Me![cboNCSANo]) The reason is that LIKE evaluates an * as a wildcard whereas = evaluates the * literally, i.e. it would match any records with an asterisk in the field. I don't think any of this has anything to do with your type mismatch though John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Hollis,Virginia Sent: Thursday, March 04, 2004 8:29 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: [AccessD] Add All to List Still struggling... On the recordsource for the combo box I put: SELECT tbl_NCSA.NCSAID, tbl_NCSA.NCSANo FROM tbl_NCSA; UNION SELECT "*", "All" FROM tbl_NCSA; This gets me the word ALL in the list. Then on the AfterUpdate of cboNCSANo, I put (this gives me a type mismatch when I select All): If Me![cboNCSANo] = "All" Then DoCmd.ShowAllRecords Else DoCmd.ApplyFilter , "[NCSAID] = " & str(Me![cboNCSANo]) End If Va. -----Original Message----- From: William Hindman [mailto:wdhindman at bellsouth.net] Sent: Wednesday, March 03, 2004 4:07 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Add All to List ...the easiest way is to "if" the combo's after update event :) After Update Event cboCustomer If Me![cboCustomer] = "" Then DoCmd ShowAllRecords Else DoCmd ApplyFilter , "[State] = Forms![cboCustomer]![cboCustomer]" End If William Hindman "My idea of an agreeable person is a person who agrees with me." Disraeli ----- Original Message ----- From: "Hollis,Virginia" To: "'Access Developers discussion and problem solving'" Sent: Wednesday, March 03, 2004 4:29 PM Subject: RE: [AccessD] Add All to List > I don't know what I am doing wrong.... The all shows at the top of the list, > but All the records do not show on the subform. The combobox is still > showing the first record when it opens and the subform is filtered for that > record. > > What makes the All part of "ALL" in the combo box work? > > Virginia > > -----Original Message----- > From: William Hindman [mailto:wdhindman at bellsouth.net] > Sent: Wednesday, March 03, 2004 8:09 AM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: Re: [AccessD] Add All to List > > > Virginia > > ...use a UNION SELECT in the combo record source to add an ALL. > > ...example: > > SELECT DISTINCTROW Customers.Company, Customers.[Customer Number] FROM > Customers UNION SELECT "","" FROM Customers ORDER BY Customers.Company; > > William Hindman "My idea of an agreeable person is a person who agrees with > me." Disraeli > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Hollis,Virginia" > To: > Sent: Wednesday, March 03, 2004 8:45 AM > Subject: [AccessD] Add All to List > > > > How do you add All to List? This form contains 2 combo boxes on a main > form. > > Selecting data shows data on a subform for the related combo box choices. > > > > I need to either have an All in the combo boxes or when the form opens, I > > would like them to be blank. > > > > I tried this code in the On Open of the main form, but it still opens to > > the first record with entries in both combo boxes. > > > > With Me > > .cboNCSANo = "" > > .cboProcedure = "" > > End With > > > > Virginia > > -- > > _______________________________________________ > > AccessD mailing list > > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From wdhindman at bellsouth.net Thu Mar 4 08:04:39 2004 From: wdhindman at bellsouth.net (William Hindman) Date: Thu, 4 Mar 2004 09:04:39 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Add All to List References: <618EB4D6DDCDD3119B0A00508B6FD37A0CB0D22C@cntexchange.pgdp.usec.com> Message-ID: <001001c401f1$a240d340$6101a8c0@dejpolsys> ...if the combo contents are a numeric then a text "ALL" would explain a type mismatch ...haven't seen that myself but you might consider using a variant data type or selecting on a different combo field. William Hindman "My idea of an agreeable person is a person who agrees with me." Disraeli ----- Original Message ----- From: "Hollis,Virginia" To: "'Access Developers discussion and problem solving'" Sent: Thursday, March 04, 2004 8:28 AM Subject: RE: [AccessD] Add All to List > Still struggling... > > On the recordsource for the combo box I put: > SELECT tbl_NCSA.NCSAID, tbl_NCSA.NCSANo FROM tbl_NCSA; UNION SELECT "*", > "All" FROM tbl_NCSA; > This gets me the word ALL in the list. > > Then on the AfterUpdate of cboNCSANo, I put (this gives me a type mismatch > when I select All): > If Me![cboNCSANo] = "All" Then > DoCmd.ShowAllRecords > Else > DoCmd.ApplyFilter , "[NCSAID] = " & str(Me![cboNCSANo]) > End If > > Va. > > -----Original Message----- > From: William Hindman [mailto:wdhindman at bellsouth.net] > Sent: Wednesday, March 03, 2004 4:07 PM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: Re: [AccessD] Add All to List > > > ...the easiest way is to "if" the combo's after update event :) > > After Update Event cboCustomer > If Me![cboCustomer] = "" Then > DoCmd ShowAllRecords > Else > DoCmd ApplyFilter , "[State] = Forms![cboCustomer]![cboCustomer]" > End If > > William Hindman "My idea of an agreeable person is a person who agrees with > me." Disraeli > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Hollis,Virginia" > To: "'Access Developers discussion and problem solving'" > > Sent: Wednesday, March 03, 2004 4:29 PM > Subject: RE: [AccessD] Add All to List > > > > I don't know what I am doing wrong.... The all shows at the top of the > list, > > but All the records do not show on the subform. The combobox is still > > showing the first record when it opens and the subform is filtered for > that > > record. > > > > What makes the All part of "ALL" in the combo box work? > > > > Virginia > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: William Hindman [mailto:wdhindman at bellsouth.net] > > Sent: Wednesday, March 03, 2004 8:09 AM > > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > > Subject: Re: [AccessD] Add All to List > > > > > > Virginia > > > > ...use a UNION SELECT in the combo record source to add an ALL. > > > > ...example: > > > > SELECT DISTINCTROW Customers.Company, Customers.[Customer Number] FROM > > Customers UNION SELECT "","" FROM Customers ORDER BY > Customers.Company; > > > > William Hindman "My idea of an agreeable person is a person who agrees > with > > me." Disraeli > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: "Hollis,Virginia" > > To: > > Sent: Wednesday, March 03, 2004 8:45 AM > > Subject: [AccessD] Add All to List > > > > > > > How do you add All to List? This form contains 2 combo boxes on a main > > form. > > > Selecting data shows data on a subform for the related combo box > choices. > > > > > > I need to either have an All in the combo boxes or when the form opens, > I > > > would like them to be blank. > > > > > > I tried this code in the On Open of the main form, but it still opens > to > > > the first record with entries in both combo boxes. > > > > > > With Me > > > .cboNCSANo = "" > > > .cboProcedure = "" > > > End With > > > > > > Virginia > > > -- > > > _______________________________________________ > > > AccessD mailing list > > > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > > > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > > > > > > -- > > _______________________________________________ > > AccessD mailing list > > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > -- > > _______________________________________________ > > AccessD mailing list > > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com Thu Mar 4 08:07:40 2004 From: jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com (John W. Colby) Date: Thu, 4 Mar 2004 09:07:40 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Susan Harkins and Arthur Fuller Message-ID: Please email me off-line. Thanks, John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com From BBarabash at TappeConstruction.com Thu Mar 4 08:16:08 2004 From: BBarabash at TappeConstruction.com (Brett Barabash) Date: Thu, 4 Mar 2004 08:16:08 -0600 Subject: [AccessD] Form In Background Message-ID: <426071E0B0A6D311B3C0006008B0AB23AFE3D0@TAPPEEXCH01> What's a linked form? -----Original Message----- From: Ayisha [mailto:ayishakca at yahoo.ca] Sent: Wednesday, March 03, 2004 11:04 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: [AccessD] Form In Background Is there any way that i can hide a linked form in background???? Ayisha -- -------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- This email and any files transmitted with it are confidential and intended solely for the use of the individual or entity to whom they are addressed. If you have received this email in error please notify the originator of the message. This footer also confirms that this email message has been scanned for the presence of computer viruses. Any views expressed in this message are those of the individual sender, except where the sender specifies and with authority, states them to be the views of Tappe Construction Co. Scanning of this message and addition of this footer is performed by SurfControl E-mail Filter software in conjunction with virus detection software. From roz.clarke at donnslaw.co.uk Thu Mar 4 08:24:04 2004 From: roz.clarke at donnslaw.co.uk (Roz Clarke) Date: Thu, 4 Mar 2004 14:24:04 -0000 Subject: [AccessD] Update Problem Message-ID: <61F915314798D311A2F800A0C9C83188047C6B91@dibble.observatory.donnslaw.co.uk> Hi I haven't, but the only thing I can think of is that you have something happening that needs more time, and stepping through the code is allowing each step to complete before the next one starts and causes any conflict. Could there be anything like that happening? If so, DoEvents might help you. Roz -----Original Message----- From: rsmethurst at UK.EY.COM [mailto:rsmethurst at UK.EY.COM] Sent: 04 March 2004 10:42 To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: [AccessD] Update Problem Hi All, I have a very strange problem with a table that I am updating using an Insert Into statement. Basically, if I set a breakpoint and step through the code, all works fine. If however I do not, and simply let it run, the table is not populated? Has anyone encountered anything like this before? TIA Ryan This e-mail and any attachment are confidential and contain proprietary information, some or all of which may be legally privileged. It is intended solely for the use of the individual or entity to which it is addressed. If you are not the intended recipient, please notify the author immediately by telephone or by replying to this e-mail, and then delete all copies of the e-mail on your system. If you are not the intended recipient, you must not use, disclose, distribute, copy, print or rely on this e-mail. Whilst we have taken reasonable precautions to ensure that this e-mail and any attachment has been checked for viruses, we cannot guarantee that they are virus free and we cannot accept liability for any damage sustained as a result of software viruses. We would advise that you carry out your own virus checks, especially before opening an attachment. The UK firm Ernst & Young LLP is a limited liability partnership registered in England and Wales with registered number OC300001 and is a member practice of Ernst & Young Global. A list of members? names is available for inspection at 1 More London Place, London, SE1 2AF, the firm?s principal place of business and its registered office. -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From rsmethurst at UK.EY.COM Thu Mar 4 08:30:03 2004 From: rsmethurst at UK.EY.COM (rsmethurst at UK.EY.COM) Date: Thu, 4 Mar 2004 14:30:03 +0000 Subject: [AccessD] Update Problem Message-ID: Thanks Roz, Managed to get it to work in the end...very strange problem though. I think it was because a certain step was being tested using a different connection and for some reason there wasn't enough time for the step to complete before the other connection tried to read the data. Ryan This e-mail and any attachment are confidential and contain proprietary information, some or all of which may be legally privileged. It is intended solely for the use of the individual or entity to which it is addressed. If you are not the intended recipient, please notify the author immediately by telephone or by replying to this e-mail, and then delete all copies of the e-mail on your system. If you are not the intended recipient, you must not use, disclose, distribute, copy, print or rely on this e-mail. Whilst we have taken reasonable precautions to ensure that this e-mail and any attachment has been checked for viruses, we cannot guarantee that they are virus free and we cannot accept liability for any damage sustained as a result of software viruses. We would advise that you carry out your own virus checks, especially before opening an attachment. The UK firm Ernst & Young LLP is a limited liability partnership registered in England and Wales with registered number OC300001 and is a member practice of Ernst & Young Global. A list of members? names is available for inspection at 1 More London Place, London, SE1 2AF, the firm?s principal place of business and its registered office. From Bryan_Carbonnell at cbc.ca Thu Mar 4 08:44:02 2004 From: Bryan_Carbonnell at cbc.ca (Bryan Carbonnell) Date: Thu, 04 Mar 2004 09:44:02 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] How to Deal with Time Durations Message-ID: In a new app that I am creating, of which you will probably hear ALL about it over the next few weeks :), I have to keep track of event durations. Right now I have a field for the start time, and one for the duration. Both are Date/Time fields. The durations for the event can last from 1 second all the way up to many hours, and possibly even days. Should I actually be storing the start and end time and calculating the duration? The duration can be entered as either the actual duration or the actual end time. If you have done something like this, how have you handled it? Thanks, Bryan Carbonnell bryan_carbonnell at cbc.ca From jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com Thu Mar 4 08:57:00 2004 From: jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com (John W. Colby) Date: Thu, 4 Mar 2004 09:57:00 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Frameworks, what are they? In-Reply-To: <000001c401ab$85bfa020$2a00a8c0@nbbits01> Message-ID: >Passes control to mtdLocalFormOpen on the form which: -sets form specific stuff like attached table, primary key, etc -handles form specific open args I guess my question is how does this "passes control" happen. If you are doing something like frm.SomeFunction IOW "calling" the function on the form, then you are "doing it questionably". The "right" way is to raise an event in the dclsFrm (whatever you call yours) after you finish processing each event. Then dimension your dclsFrm variable in each form Withevents. Next put event stubs in the form's built-in class which looks something like this: dim withevents fdclsFrm as dclsFrm private sub Open(Cancel as integer) set fdclsFrm = new dclsFrm fdclsFrm.Init Me, other parameters end sub 'THIS IS THE EVENT SINK FOR YOUR FORM CLASS' (RAISED BY YOUR CLASS) private sub fdclsFrm_BeforeUpdate(Cancel as integer) 'do whatever processing needs doing here AFTER your class processing end sub 'THIS IS THE EVENT SINK FOR YOUR FORM CLASS' AFTERUPDATE EVENT (RAISED BY YOUR CLASS) private sub fdclsFrm)AfterUpdate() 'do whatever processing you need to do AFTER your class processing end sub The event stubs for your class can be there if you need them or not if you don't need them. Remember that if you have an event stubs for form events in the FORM'S built in class they get control BEFORE your class, then your class, then your class raises its own event and transfers control back to whatever is listening to those events - typically but not always the form itself. I say not always because it is perfectly possible to listen to one form's events in another form, or even just in a class just sitting there listening. All that is needed is a variable dimensioned Withevents, and set to point to a specific instance of your dclsFrm. Then put event stubs in there for the events your class raises and it will gain control at some point in time. John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Stuart Sanders Sent: Thursday, March 04, 2004 12:43 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: [AccessD] Frameworks, what are they? Hehe Like I said I started moving it to a class driven system, and its far from finished, though I have it workable so to speak. Maybe I need to revisit your dclsFrm. When I started this it was a job just to get my head around some of the things that were going on. I do raise events in the class for the built in events.... Perhaps my terminology isn't up to scratch. Essentially what I do is the following. Form_OnOpen: calls class initialisation Class: -sets reference to self -registers with class collection -some other checks and settings -sets reference to parent -sinks form events -sinks standard buttons -scans form and sinks control classes -gets open args and puts in collection -checks if audit fields are present -other stuff Passes control to mtdLocalFormOpen on the form which: -sets form specific stuff like attached table, primary key, etc -handles form specific open args So what I meant was now the events are embedded into the class (sunk if you prefer). If a form current event occurs, then the class handles Form_Current first. Does its stuff and then passes control to the form if a custom form specific function for current event exists. Form_Current doesn't exist on the form. Sounds pretty much like what you do. As I said above, it is probably time to revisit dclsform. Stuart > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of > John W. Colby > Sent: Thursday, 4 March 2004 12:53 PM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: RE: [AccessD] Frameworks, what are they? > > > >Generally for events that I embed into the class I also add > a call to the > local form to a "local" event in case there is any form > specific stuff. So > the current event calls a function call on the form called > "FormLocalOnCurrent" or something like that. > > In my case I dimension my dclsFrm (my forms class) Withevents > in the form. > dclsFrmRAISES events in every event it sinks, which I call > AfterXXX where > XXX is the event name. AfterOnOpen for example. Any > parameters passed in > by the event sink from the form I pass right on out to the > AfterXXX event I > raise. Thus the form can sink my AfterAfterUpdate and perform any > processing it needs to do after my form class has done its processing. > > The thing to understand here is that if an event stub for an > event exists in > the form's built-in class, control is transferred there > FIRST, then to the > event stub in my class, and then (because I raise an event in my event > stubs) to the AfterXXX event in the form (if any). > > Having a form call an event in a form is "ass backwards" so > to speak. We > sink events from objects such as controls or forms. Those > objects never > call MY functions! My classes raise events as well and if > any other control > needs to sink those events then they do. By dimming my > dclsFrm Withevents, > the form can sink the events generated by my class if it > needs to do so. > > > John W. Colby > www.ColbyConsulting.com > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of > Stuart Sanders > Sent: Wednesday, March 03, 2004 10:43 PM > To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' > Subject: RE: [AccessD] Frameworks, what are they? > > > I started moving to a class based framework in the latter part of last > year, and I had briefly at the time talked about it with > Robert when we > were working on LWS. I haven't worked on it much recently, but basic > functionality is added. > > Personally I think of a framework as a skeleton of what the app needs. > Much like a framework for a QA document, or a book. In the > book example > a framework (or layout) might contain a front cover, forward, > contents, > and chapters. If you are always doing the same kind of book you might > even include all the chapters (eg the Dummies books follow a framework > layout). > > In access (or other dev tool) the framework will mostly likely start > with standard forms/queries and tables that are in all apps > you deploy - > splash, menu, maintenance tools (compact and repair, backup, etc), > Sysvars like tables. > > It will also likely have forms and supporting tables and queries for > things that are used often. Perhaps things like registration forms, > security, etc. > > For class driven systems you would then start with basic > stuff and build > on it. For example to start with you make a form class > handle standard > events. You do this by calling the class in the form open event, it > then fires up and does whatever you have set it up to do. Typically > this would include embedding standard form events into the class. It > would also be extended to standard form objects (eg if you > often use an > undo button, save button, etc), and as you extend it you may have the > class scan for control types and add standard calls. > > Generally for events that I embed into the class I also add a call to > the local form to a "local" event in case there is any form specific > stuff. So the current event calls a function call on the form called > "FormLocalOnCurrent" or something like that. > > At this stage I have two form classes. One for lookup forms > and one for > standard forms. A lookup form is a simplified data > maintenance form for > tables that don't have any foreign keys or complex data. Usually just > lists, but may have multiple fields. The classes handle all standard > buttons, code behind most controls (beforeupdate etc) and some other > generic stuff. So if you look at the forms there is a lot less code > behind it doing the driving. In some cases just the calls to > the class > to initialise and terminate. > > I also have a bunch of other classes that are supportive in > nature. For > example there are classes for standard control like text boxes, combo > boxes, checkboxes etc that the form controls call when > initialising the > controls collection. There is a class for handling a list of strings > for things like form open arguments. (CustomerID=123456;Arg2=???) > > For controls, I have adopted some naming conventions, so text controls > would only get embedded if their name started with txt. A > text control > with txd is a date field, and has some other additional code for > calendaring etc. > > I've also created formtemplates for building a class driven > form. So I > copy the template and start dropping in controls. Basica form > functionality will be handled without additional work > > I've also moved over some personal dev tools such as a form maker for > building lookup forms. These get removed at deployment time but the > forms it creates stay. > > I will see about putting up a demo at some stage on just the class > related stuff I have done so far, as what I have done so far is likely > to be a lot simpler than older frameworks. Won't have time until at > least next week though. > > I would also be interested in seeing older frameworks. At this stage > mine draws heavily on examples by John from LWS and another > developer I > work with here occasionally (doesn't inhabit this list and doesn't use > access much anymore). Some things John does I have adopted (eg > registering classes into a collection - helps with debugging > particularly as class debugging can occasionaly get annoying, and > sysvars though I have adopted a slightly different approach) > > Stuart > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of > > Robert Gracie > > Sent: Thursday, 4 March 2004 9:56 AM > > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > > Subject: RE: [AccessD] Frameworks, what are they? > > > > > > Ok so what are the basic "bones" if you will of a > framework? The basic > > skeleton I guess. > > > > Robert Gracie > > > > ************************* > > > > I am going to cc the list however. We have many developers who have > > developed their own framework. I have never seen anyone > > else's so I can't > > vouch for how complex they are now how conceptually similar > > to what I do, > > but if we address the list, perhaps we can get a discussion > > going on this > > stuff. > > > > John W. Colby > > www.ColbyConsulting.com > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: Robert Gracie [mailto:Robert at servicexp.com] > > Sent: Wednesday, March 03, 2004 8:18 PM > > To: jcolby at colbyconsulting.com > > Subject: I have a question > > > > > > John, > > I have really appreciated the help over the last few months > > in regards to > > "DEEP" programming, your examples have been very helpful. I'm > > intrigued with > > "framework" idea however I have no idea where to get started. > > My question > > is; do you have any examples of a running "framework", or any > > books that > > explain how to set this sort of thing up? > > > > Thanks Again!! > > Robert Gracie > > > > > > -- > > _______________________________________________ > > AccessD mailing list > > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > > > -- > > _______________________________________________ > > AccessD mailing list > > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From jimdettman at earthlink.net Thu Mar 4 08:58:00 2004 From: jimdettman at earthlink.net (Jim Dettman) Date: Thu, 4 Mar 2004 09:58:00 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Frameworks, what are they? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: John, I hate to mention VFP on the Access list, but in terms of Frameworks it has many and the features that they offer are listed here: http://fox.wikis.com/wc.dll?Wiki~FrameworkFeatureChart~VFP Items compared are things like Developer Tools, End User Features, etc. Quite a bit of info there on frameworks in general. If you wanted to look at one more specifically, I use VMP, which has a downloadable help file that you can look at. You can find that here: http://www.visionds.com/vmpsite/ Look under VMP 2004, Download VMPHELP.CHM Jim Dettman President, Online Computer Services of WNY, Inc. (315) 699-3443 jimdettman at earthlink.net -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of John W. Colby Sent: Wednesday, March 03, 2004 8:44 PM To: AccessD Subject: [AccessD] Frameworks, what are they? Robert, The only example I have of a running framework is my own. Unfortunately it is so complex at this point it would be undecipherable to anyone but me I'm afraid. You have heard me discuss the various functionalities I have placed into my framework. In order to understand my stuff you would have to wade through all that stuff I have mentioned. I am certainly willing to post it somewhere with an application that uses it so that you can see how I do things but I'm truly uncertain whether a discussion could address my framework without getting pretty deep pretty fast. A framework is really nothing more than a skeleton upon which you hang an application. As you need more functionality, if it is generic and useful to the next app you add it to the framework. In this day and age, you really need to be thinking classes however since they allow you to set up containers for related functionality. I am going to cc the list however. We have many developers who have developed their own framework. I have never seen anyone else's so I can't vouch for how complex they are now how conceptually similar to what I do, but if we address the list, perhaps we can get a discussion going on this stuff. John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com -----Original Message----- From: Robert Gracie [mailto:Robert at servicexp.com] Sent: Wednesday, March 03, 2004 8:18 PM To: jcolby at colbyconsulting.com Subject: I have a question John, I have really appreciated the help over the last few months in regards to "DEEP" programming, your examples have been very helpful. I'm intrigued with "framework" idea however I have no idea where to get started. My question is; do you have any examples of a running "framework", or any books that explain how to set this sort of thing up? Thanks Again!! Robert Gracie -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From gustav at cactus.dk Thu Mar 4 09:19:09 2004 From: gustav at cactus.dk (Gustav Brock) Date: Thu, 4 Mar 2004 16:19:09 +0100 Subject: [AccessD] How to Deal with Time Durations In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <10227394701.20040304161909@cactus.dk> Hi Bryan > In a new app that I am creating, of which you will probably hear ALL > about it over the next few weeks :), I have to keep track of event > durations. > Right now I have a field for the start time, and one for the duration. > Both are Date/Time fields. > The durations for the event can last from 1 second all the way up to > many hours, and possibly even days. > Should I actually be storing the start and end time and calculating the > duration? > The duration can be entered as either the actual duration or the actual > end time. > If you have done something like this, how have you handled it? That certainly depends. If you find it important or will have to use later the actual points in time, store the start and end times as full date/time values. If the durations are important, store these as hours (with decimals), minutes or seconds as to your needs. Also, how will these duration be input? By users? Often or seldom? Will input have to be validated? Against what? My best advice is to use the built in date/time functions and never fall back to "smart" methods as you will be bitten sooner or later or loose flexibility. Look up the archive on threads on this; there are several even some recent. /gustav From jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com Thu Mar 4 09:25:37 2004 From: jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com (John W. Colby) Date: Thu, 4 Mar 2004 10:25:37 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Frameworks, what are they? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Back when I was supervising that VP project I mentioned at lunch, we found and bought something called Framework for normal people or something like that. Basically starting with a purchased framework is good... they just don't seem to exist for Access. I have thought about trying to develop and sell one but reality always intervenes. John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Jim Dettman Sent: Thursday, March 04, 2004 9:58 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] Frameworks, what are they? John, I hate to mention VFP on the Access list, but in terms of Frameworks it has many and the features that they offer are listed here: http://fox.wikis.com/wc.dll?Wiki~FrameworkFeatureChart~VFP Items compared are things like Developer Tools, End User Features, etc. Quite a bit of info there on frameworks in general. If you wanted to look at one more specifically, I use VMP, which has a downloadable help file that you can look at. You can find that here: http://www.visionds.com/vmpsite/ Look under VMP 2004, Download VMPHELP.CHM Jim Dettman President, Online Computer Services of WNY, Inc. (315) 699-3443 jimdettman at earthlink.net -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of John W. Colby Sent: Wednesday, March 03, 2004 8:44 PM To: AccessD Subject: [AccessD] Frameworks, what are they? Robert, The only example I have of a running framework is my own. Unfortunately it is so complex at this point it would be undecipherable to anyone but me I'm afraid. You have heard me discuss the various functionalities I have placed into my framework. In order to understand my stuff you would have to wade through all that stuff I have mentioned. I am certainly willing to post it somewhere with an application that uses it so that you can see how I do things but I'm truly uncertain whether a discussion could address my framework without getting pretty deep pretty fast. A framework is really nothing more than a skeleton upon which you hang an application. As you need more functionality, if it is generic and useful to the next app you add it to the framework. In this day and age, you really need to be thinking classes however since they allow you to set up containers for related functionality. I am going to cc the list however. We have many developers who have developed their own framework. I have never seen anyone else's so I can't vouch for how complex they are now how conceptually similar to what I do, but if we address the list, perhaps we can get a discussion going on this stuff. John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com -----Original Message----- From: Robert Gracie [mailto:Robert at servicexp.com] Sent: Wednesday, March 03, 2004 8:18 PM To: jcolby at colbyconsulting.com Subject: I have a question John, I have really appreciated the help over the last few months in regards to "DEEP" programming, your examples have been very helpful. I'm intrigued with "framework" idea however I have no idea where to get started. My question is; do you have any examples of a running "framework", or any books that explain how to set this sort of thing up? Thanks Again!! Robert Gracie -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From john at winhaven.net Thu Mar 4 09:51:26 2004 From: john at winhaven.net (John Bartow) Date: Thu, 4 Mar 2004 09:51:26 -0600 Subject: [AccessD] Drew - Age of the Archives? In-Reply-To: <2F8793082E00D4119A1700B0D0216BF802227929@main2.marlow.com> Message-ID: I don't blame you, after the run of luck you've had! I'm leery every time I do a presentation. I don't mind speaking in front of people but it seems something always goes wrong - no matter how prepared I am. I've done presentations for conferences where the coordinator guaranteed the equipment was what I asked for and when I show up they have projectors that don't handle 1024x768 which is the only res. at which my laptop's video looks good (640 cuts the text lines up). I had another conference where I was setup 30 minutes early, everything worked fine, unplug my laptop and the first presenter plugs his in, he goes on and finishes, I plug my laptop into the projector and POOF my laptop's screen goes out. It took about 20 minutes to get it all rearranged so that my partner could run the presentation from the projected image rather than the laptop, while I talked about it. (we were showing a new app. live of course.) Luckily there was a third presenter that went on in our time slot and 500 people weren't just sitting there getting irritated. Took a month to get the screen replaced too :o( John BTW AccessD as we know it was formed in 2001 so I guess I have it narrowed down enough now :o) -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of DWUTKA at marlow.com Sent: Wednesday, March 03, 2004 11:47 AM To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: RE: [AccessD] Drew - Age of the Archives? I actually gave a presentation on the 'indexing' capabilities I built for the archives last month. After my track record with major changes/updates to the archives, I was just a little leary to give that presentation....go figure! Drew -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of John Bartow Sent: Wednesday, March 03, 2004 11:24 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] Drew - Age of the Archives? Drew, Yes, it is an interesting timeline, I thought of a few of those things too! :o) Thanks, John -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of DWUTKA at marlow.com Sent: Wednesday, March 03, 2004 10:47 AM To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: RE: [AccessD] Drew - Age of the Archives? Hmmmm, let's work backwards. I know that the archives stopping archiving this past August/September (2003), because that's when I separated from Tammy. I know the archives started using the 'Memo Field Indexing' in April of 2003, because that is when my apartment caught fire. I know I moved the archives from Marlow to my home in early January of 2003, because my DSL company went bankrupt and pulled the plug on their network then. I have no clue when I actually 'started' the archives, other then a wild guess at about 6 months before I moved it home. So I would say July or August of 2002. Drew (Interesting timeline, eh?) -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of John Bartow Sent: Tuesday, March 02, 2004 9:00 PM To: _DBA-Access Subject: [AccessD] Drew - Age of the Archives? Drew, Someone recently asked me how long I have been on this list. The only point of reference I could think of was about two years before I sent all my archives to Drew! So, Do you know when you put the archives together on your site? John "My memory is 40 years ahead of it time (I have a like I'm over 80)" Bartow -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From wdhindman at bellsouth.net Thu Mar 4 10:27:58 2004 From: wdhindman at bellsouth.net (William Hindman) Date: Thu, 4 Mar 2004 11:27:58 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Drew - Age of the Archives? References: Message-ID: <009d01c40205$a8d8d090$6101a8c0@dejpolsys> ...AccessD was alive and well long before 2001 :) William Hindman "My idea of an agreeable person is a person who agrees with me." Disraeli ----- Original Message ----- From: "John Bartow" To: "Access Developers discussion and problem solving" Sent: Thursday, March 04, 2004 10:51 AM Subject: RE: [AccessD] Drew - Age of the Archives? > I don't blame you, after the run of luck you've had! > > I'm leery every time I do a presentation. I don't mind speaking in front of > people but it seems something always goes wrong - no matter how prepared I > am. I've done presentations for conferences where the coordinator guaranteed > the equipment was what I asked for and when I show up they have projectors > that don't handle 1024x768 which is the only res. at which my laptop's video > looks good (640 cuts the text lines up). I had another conference where I > was setup 30 minutes early, everything worked fine, unplug my laptop and the > first presenter plugs his in, he goes on and finishes, I plug my laptop into > the projector and POOF my laptop's screen goes out. It took about 20 minutes > to get it all rearranged so that my partner could run the presentation from > the projected image rather than the laptop, while I talked about it. (we > were showing a new app. live of course.) Luckily there was a third presenter > that went on in our time slot and 500 people weren't just sitting there > getting irritated. Took a month to get the screen replaced too :o( > > John > > BTW AccessD as we know it was formed in 2001 so I guess I have it narrowed > down enough now :o) > > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of > DWUTKA at marlow.com > Sent: Wednesday, March 03, 2004 11:47 AM > To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com > Subject: RE: [AccessD] Drew - Age of the Archives? > > > I actually gave a presentation on the 'indexing' capabilities I built for > the archives last month. After my track record with major changes/updates > to the archives, I was just a little leary to give that presentation....go > figure! > > Drew > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of John Bartow > Sent: Wednesday, March 03, 2004 11:24 AM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: RE: [AccessD] Drew - Age of the Archives? > > > Drew, > Yes, it is an interesting timeline, I thought of a few of those things too! > :o) > > Thanks, > John > > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of > DWUTKA at marlow.com > Sent: Wednesday, March 03, 2004 10:47 AM > To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com > Subject: RE: [AccessD] Drew - Age of the Archives? > > > Hmmmm, let's work backwards. I know that the archives stopping archiving > this past August/September (2003), because that's when I separated from > Tammy. I know the archives started using the 'Memo Field Indexing' in April > of 2003, because that is when my apartment caught fire. I know I moved the > archives from Marlow to my home in early January of 2003, because my DSL > company went bankrupt and pulled the plug on their network then. > > I have no clue when I actually 'started' the archives, other then a wild > guess at about 6 months before I moved it home. So I would say July or > August of 2002. > > Drew (Interesting timeline, eh?) > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of John Bartow > Sent: Tuesday, March 02, 2004 9:00 PM > To: _DBA-Access > Subject: [AccessD] Drew - Age of the Archives? > > > Drew, > Someone recently asked me how long I have been on this list. The only point > of reference I could think of was about two years before I sent all my > archives to Drew! > > So, Do you know when you put the archives together on your site? > > John "My memory is 40 years ahead of it time (I have a like I'm over 80)" > Bartow > > > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From john at winhaven.net Thu Mar 4 10:51:06 2004 From: john at winhaven.net (John Bartow) Date: Thu, 4 Mar 2004 10:51:06 -0600 Subject: [AccessD] Drew - Age of the Archives? In-Reply-To: <009d01c40205$a8d8d090$6101a8c0@dejpolsys> Message-ID: Not according to our website! I had thought I joined in May of 2000 but when I saw that I figured it must have been May of 2001. I could be wrong. The only way to verify it woul dbe backup tapes and BLA! -its bad enough when I have to use them :o) -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of William Hindman Sent: Thursday, March 04, 2004 10:28 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Drew - Age of the Archives? ...AccessD was alive and well long before 2001 :) William Hindman "My idea of an agreeable person is a person who agrees with me." Disraeli ----- Original Message ----- From: "John Bartow" To: "Access Developers discussion and problem solving" Sent: Thursday, March 04, 2004 10:51 AM Subject: RE: [AccessD] Drew - Age of the Archives? > I don't blame you, after the run of luck you've had! > > I'm leery every time I do a presentation. I don't mind speaking in front of > people but it seems something always goes wrong - no matter how prepared I > am. I've done presentations for conferences where the coordinator guaranteed > the equipment was what I asked for and when I show up they have projectors > that don't handle 1024x768 which is the only res. at which my laptop's video > looks good (640 cuts the text lines up). I had another conference where I > was setup 30 minutes early, everything worked fine, unplug my laptop and the > first presenter plugs his in, he goes on and finishes, I plug my laptop into > the projector and POOF my laptop's screen goes out. It took about 20 minutes > to get it all rearranged so that my partner could run the presentation from > the projected image rather than the laptop, while I talked about it. (we > were showing a new app. live of course.) Luckily there was a third presenter > that went on in our time slot and 500 people weren't just sitting there > getting irritated. Took a month to get the screen replaced too :o( > > John > > BTW AccessD as we know it was formed in 2001 so I guess I have it narrowed > down enough now :o) > > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of > DWUTKA at marlow.com > Sent: Wednesday, March 03, 2004 11:47 AM > To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com > Subject: RE: [AccessD] Drew - Age of the Archives? > > > I actually gave a presentation on the 'indexing' capabilities I built for > the archives last month. After my track record with major changes/updates > to the archives, I was just a little leary to give that presentation....go > figure! > > Drew > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of John Bartow > Sent: Wednesday, March 03, 2004 11:24 AM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: RE: [AccessD] Drew - Age of the Archives? > > > Drew, > Yes, it is an interesting timeline, I thought of a few of those things too! > :o) > > Thanks, > John > > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of > DWUTKA at marlow.com > Sent: Wednesday, March 03, 2004 10:47 AM > To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com > Subject: RE: [AccessD] Drew - Age of the Archives? > > > Hmmmm, let's work backwards. I know that the archives stopping archiving > this past August/September (2003), because that's when I separated from > Tammy. I know the archives started using the 'Memo Field Indexing' in April > of 2003, because that is when my apartment caught fire. I know I moved the > archives from Marlow to my home in early January of 2003, because my DSL > company went bankrupt and pulled the plug on their network then. > > I have no clue when I actually 'started' the archives, other then a wild > guess at about 6 months before I moved it home. So I would say July or > August of 2002. > > Drew (Interesting timeline, eh?) > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of John Bartow > Sent: Tuesday, March 02, 2004 9:00 PM > To: _DBA-Access > Subject: [AccessD] Drew - Age of the Archives? > > > Drew, > Someone recently asked me how long I have been on this list. The only point > of reference I could think of was about two years before I sent all my > archives to Drew! > > So, Do you know when you put the archives together on your site? > > John "My memory is 40 years ahead of it time (I have a like I'm over 80)" > Bartow > > > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From cfoust at infostatsystems.com Thu Mar 4 10:57:40 2004 From: cfoust at infostatsystems.com (Charlotte Foust) Date: Thu, 4 Mar 2004 08:57:40 -0800 Subject: [AccessD] Add All to List Message-ID: John, >>The [] generally denotes a field and usually tells the compiler to try and interpret whatever is between the [] as a field name. I have to disagree. The [] denotes an object as distinct from a variable. If you use square brackets around a control name in CBF and leave off the Me. Or Me!, Access will correctly infer that you are referring to an object on the form, even if you screw up the spelling. Without the square brackets, it will think you have an undeclared variable. Charlotte Foust -----Original Message----- From: John W. Colby [mailto:jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com] Sent: Thursday, March 04, 2004 6:04 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] Add All to List Is this combo bound to a nontext field? If so then the first column (column(0) must be a numeric value. Furthermore the syntax Me![cboNCSANo] MAY be correct but I don't think so. It should be me!cboNCNSANo The [] generally denotes a field and usually tells the compiler to try and interpret whatever is between the [] as a field name. In any event, whether or not the [] is legal, me!CtlName is definitely valid. Further if I'm not mistaken (assuming that column(0) of the combo is not bound to a numeric field which by itself would be causing your problems) The default property of a combo is column(0) which would contain the value "*" so the case should be if me!CboNCSANo = "*" then else endif You can make it unambiguous in any case by specifying the column you intend to evaluate if me!CboNCSANo.column(0) = "*" then else endif or if me!CboNCSANo.column(1) = "All" then else endif FURTHER... the SQL statement has to use a LIKE instead of an = DoCmd.ApplyFilter , "[NCSAID] LIKE " & str(Me![cboNCSANo]) The reason is that LIKE evaluates an * as a wildcard whereas = evaluates the * literally, i.e. it would match any records with an asterisk in the field. I don't think any of this has anything to do with your type mismatch though John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Hollis,Virginia Sent: Thursday, March 04, 2004 8:29 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: [AccessD] Add All to List Still struggling... On the recordsource for the combo box I put: SELECT tbl_NCSA.NCSAID, tbl_NCSA.NCSANo FROM tbl_NCSA; UNION SELECT "*", "All" FROM tbl_NCSA; This gets me the word ALL in the list. Then on the AfterUpdate of cboNCSANo, I put (this gives me a type mismatch when I select All): If Me![cboNCSANo] = "All" Then DoCmd.ShowAllRecords Else DoCmd.ApplyFilter , "[NCSAID] = " & str(Me![cboNCSANo]) End If Va. -----Original Message----- From: William Hindman [mailto:wdhindman at bellsouth.net] Sent: Wednesday, March 03, 2004 4:07 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Add All to List ...the easiest way is to "if" the combo's after update event :) After Update Event cboCustomer If Me![cboCustomer] = "" Then DoCmd ShowAllRecords Else DoCmd ApplyFilter , "[State] = Forms![cboCustomer]![cboCustomer]" End If William Hindman "My idea of an agreeable person is a person who agrees with me." Disraeli ----- Original Message ----- From: "Hollis,Virginia" To: "'Access Developers discussion and problem solving'" Sent: Wednesday, March 03, 2004 4:29 PM Subject: RE: [AccessD] Add All to List > I don't know what I am doing wrong.... The all shows at the top of the list, > but All the records do not show on the subform. The combobox is still > showing the first record when it opens and the subform is filtered for that > record. > > What makes the All part of "ALL" in the combo box work? > > Virginia > > -----Original Message----- > From: William Hindman [mailto:wdhindman at bellsouth.net] > Sent: Wednesday, March 03, 2004 8:09 AM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: Re: [AccessD] Add All to List > > > Virginia > > ...use a UNION SELECT in the combo record source to add an ALL. > > ...example: > > SELECT DISTINCTROW Customers.Company, Customers.[Customer Number] FROM > Customers UNION SELECT "","" FROM Customers ORDER BY Customers.Company; > > William Hindman "My idea of an agreeable person is a person who agrees with > me." Disraeli > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Hollis,Virginia" > To: > Sent: Wednesday, March 03, 2004 8:45 AM > Subject: [AccessD] Add All to List > > > > How do you add All to List? This form contains 2 combo boxes on a > > main > form. > > Selecting data shows data on a subform for the related combo box choices. > > > > I need to either have an All in the combo boxes or when the form > > opens, I > > would like them to be blank. > > > > I tried this code in the On Open of the main form, but it still > > opens to > > the first record with entries in both combo boxes. > > > > With Me > > .cboNCSANo = "" > > .cboProcedure = "" > > End With > > > > Virginia > > -- > > _______________________________________________ > > AccessD mailing list > > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From jimdettman at earthlink.net Thu Mar 4 10:59:33 2004 From: jimdettman at earthlink.net (Jim Dettman) Date: Thu, 4 Mar 2004 11:59:33 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Frameworks, what are they? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: John, <> You might be thinking me "Mere Mortals" <> Yes I would agree and I've been thinking of why there are not any for Access. It's certainly been around long enough. I've thought of a couple things: 1. Most Access apps are "developed" by non-professionals, so they have a tendency to use what's in front of them. 2. Because of #1, most of the apps developed are fairly simple. 3. For a professional developer, Access already provides significant tools and features to use for development (i.e. Main/Subforms). << I have thought about trying to develop and sell one but reality always intervenes.>> I hear you there. During the A2 release, I really started digging into the MDB structure with the intent of offering database utilities. Took a lot of time and I had to pay the bills. So I gave up on it. I figured that by the time I did it, the JET team would either come out with utilities or take care of the corruption issue. Now I could kick myself in the butt for not sticking with it. Jim (315) 699-3443 jimdettman at earthlink.net -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of John W. Colby Sent: Thursday, March 04, 2004 10:26 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] Frameworks, what are they? Back when I was supervising that VP project I mentioned at lunch, we found and bought something called Framework for normal people or something like that. Basically starting with a purchased framework is good... they just don't seem to exist for Access. I have thought about trying to develop and sell one but reality always intervenes. John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Jim Dettman Sent: Thursday, March 04, 2004 9:58 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] Frameworks, what are they? John, I hate to mention VFP on the Access list, but in terms of Frameworks it has many and the features that they offer are listed here: http://fox.wikis.com/wc.dll?Wiki~FrameworkFeatureChart~VFP Items compared are things like Developer Tools, End User Features, etc. Quite a bit of info there on frameworks in general. If you wanted to look at one more specifically, I use VMP, which has a downloadable help file that you can look at. You can find that here: http://www.visionds.com/vmpsite/ Look under VMP 2004, Download VMPHELP.CHM Jim Dettman President, Online Computer Services of WNY, Inc. (315) 699-3443 jimdettman at earthlink.net -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of John W. Colby Sent: Wednesday, March 03, 2004 8:44 PM To: AccessD Subject: [AccessD] Frameworks, what are they? Robert, The only example I have of a running framework is my own. Unfortunately it is so complex at this point it would be undecipherable to anyone but me I'm afraid. You have heard me discuss the various functionalities I have placed into my framework. In order to understand my stuff you would have to wade through all that stuff I have mentioned. I am certainly willing to post it somewhere with an application that uses it so that you can see how I do things but I'm truly uncertain whether a discussion could address my framework without getting pretty deep pretty fast. A framework is really nothing more than a skeleton upon which you hang an application. As you need more functionality, if it is generic and useful to the next app you add it to the framework. In this day and age, you really need to be thinking classes however since they allow you to set up containers for related functionality. I am going to cc the list however. We have many developers who have developed their own framework. I have never seen anyone else's so I can't vouch for how complex they are now how conceptually similar to what I do, but if we address the list, perhaps we can get a discussion going on this stuff. John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com -----Original Message----- From: Robert Gracie [mailto:Robert at servicexp.com] Sent: Wednesday, March 03, 2004 8:18 PM To: jcolby at colbyconsulting.com Subject: I have a question John, I have really appreciated the help over the last few months in regards to "DEEP" programming, your examples have been very helpful. I'm intrigued with "framework" idea however I have no idea where to get started. My question is; do you have any examples of a running "framework", or any books that explain how to set this sort of thing up? Thanks Again!! Robert Gracie -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From garykjos at hotmail.com Thu Mar 4 11:00:15 2004 From: garykjos at hotmail.com (Gary Kjos) Date: Thu, 04 Mar 2004 11:00:15 -0600 Subject: [AccessD] A2K: BOUND to be a problem Message-ID: Hi Francisco, You don't need a form to have that happen. Does the same thing in just regular datasheet mode on a table too. Sorry I can't tell you how (or IF) that functionality can be turned off though. Good description of it. ;-) Gary Kjos garykjos at hotmail.com _________________________________________________________________ Frustrated with dial-up? Lightning-fast Internet access for as low as $29.95/month. http://click.atdmt.com/AVE/go/onm00200360ave/direct/01/ From stuart at pacific.net.hk Thu Mar 4 11:01:02 2004 From: stuart at pacific.net.hk (Stuart Sanders) Date: Fri, 5 Mar 2004 01:01:02 +0800 Subject: [AccessD] Drew - Age of the Archives? In-Reply-To: <009d01c40205$a8d8d090$6101a8c0@dejpolsys> Message-ID: <004701c4020a$475cf760$2a00a8c0@nbbits01> I still have a copy of the temporary accessD emails when we briefly moved to eGroups when the old server wnet down and we werent sure if the plug had been pulled. June 2000 the eGroups was started. Still exists on Yahoo Groups. Stuart > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of > William Hindman > Sent: Friday, 5 March 2004 12:28 AM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: Re: [AccessD] Drew - Age of the Archives? > > > ...AccessD was alive and well long before 2001 :) > > William Hindman "My idea of an agreeable person is a person > who agrees with > me." Disraeli > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "John Bartow" > To: "Access Developers discussion and problem solving" > > Sent: Thursday, March 04, 2004 10:51 AM > Subject: RE: [AccessD] Drew - Age of the Archives? > > > > I don't blame you, after the run of luck you've had! > > > > I'm leery every time I do a presentation. I don't mind > speaking in front > of > > people but it seems something always goes wrong - no matter > how prepared I > > am. I've done presentations for conferences where the coordinator > guaranteed > > the equipment was what I asked for and when I show up they > have projectors > > that don't handle 1024x768 which is the only res. at which > my laptop's > video > > looks good (640 cuts the text lines up). I had another > conference where I > > was setup 30 minutes early, everything worked fine, unplug > my laptop and > the > > first presenter plugs his in, he goes on and finishes, I > plug my laptop > into > > the projector and POOF my laptop's screen goes out. It took about 20 > minutes > > to get it all rearranged so that my partner could run the > presentation > from > > the projected image rather than the laptop, while I talked > about it. (we > > were showing a new app. live of course.) Luckily there was a third > presenter > > that went on in our time slot and 500 people weren't just > sitting there > > getting irritated. Took a month to get the screen replaced too :o( > > > > John > > > > BTW AccessD as we know it was formed in 2001 so I guess I > have it narrowed > > down enough now :o) > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of > > DWUTKA at marlow.com > > Sent: Wednesday, March 03, 2004 11:47 AM > > To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com > > Subject: RE: [AccessD] Drew - Age of the Archives? > > > > > > I actually gave a presentation on the 'indexing' > capabilities I built for > > the archives last month. After my track record with major > changes/updates > > to the archives, I was just a little leary to give that > presentation....go > > figure! > > > > Drew > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of > John Bartow > > Sent: Wednesday, March 03, 2004 11:24 AM > > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > > Subject: RE: [AccessD] Drew - Age of the Archives? > > > > > > Drew, > > Yes, it is an interesting timeline, I thought of a few of > those things > too! > > :o) > > > > Thanks, > > John > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of > > DWUTKA at marlow.com > > Sent: Wednesday, March 03, 2004 10:47 AM > > To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com > > Subject: RE: [AccessD] Drew - Age of the Archives? > > > > > > Hmmmm, let's work backwards. I know that the archives > stopping archiving > > this past August/September (2003), because that's when I > separated from > > Tammy. I know the archives started using the 'Memo Field > Indexing' in > April > > of 2003, because that is when my apartment caught fire. I > know I moved > the > > archives from Marlow to my home in early January of 2003, > because my DSL > > company went bankrupt and pulled the plug on their network then. > > > > I have no clue when I actually 'started' the archives, > other then a wild > > guess at about 6 months before I moved it home. So I would > say July or > > August of 2002. > > > > Drew (Interesting timeline, eh?) > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of > John Bartow > > Sent: Tuesday, March 02, 2004 9:00 PM > > To: _DBA-Access > > Subject: [AccessD] Drew - Age of the Archives? > > > > > > Drew, > > Someone recently asked me how long I have been on this > list. The only > point > > of reference I could think of was about two years before I > sent all my > > archives to Drew! > > > > So, Do you know when you put the archives together on your site? > > > > John "My memory is 40 years ahead of it time (I have a like > I'm over 80)" > > Bartow > > > > > > -- > > _______________________________________________ > > AccessD mailing list > > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > -- > > _______________________________________________ > > AccessD mailing list > > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > > > > > -- > > _______________________________________________ > > AccessD mailing list > > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > -- > > _______________________________________________ > > AccessD mailing list > > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > > > > > -- > > _______________________________________________ > > AccessD mailing list > > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > From cfoust at infostatsystems.com Thu Mar 4 11:02:17 2004 From: cfoust at infostatsystems.com (Charlotte Foust) Date: Thu, 4 Mar 2004 09:02:17 -0800 Subject: [AccessD] Add All to List Message-ID: You have to match datatypes in the union. If NCSAID is numeric, then you have to use a number, like -1 for instance, instead of the "*". If NCSANo is numeric, you need to use something like CStr(tbl_NCSA.NCSANo) in order to accommodate the "All" value. Charlotte Foust -----Original Message----- From: Hollis,Virginia [mailto:HollisVJ at pgdp.usec.com] Sent: Thursday, March 04, 2004 5:29 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: [AccessD] Add All to List Still struggling... On the recordsource for the combo box I put: SELECT tbl_NCSA.NCSAID, tbl_NCSA.NCSANo FROM tbl_NCSA; UNION SELECT "*", "All" FROM tbl_NCSA; This gets me the word ALL in the list. Then on the AfterUpdate of cboNCSANo, I put (this gives me a type mismatch when I select All): If Me![cboNCSANo] = "All" Then DoCmd.ShowAllRecords Else DoCmd.ApplyFilter , "[NCSAID] = " & str(Me![cboNCSANo]) End If Va. -----Original Message----- From: William Hindman [mailto:wdhindman at bellsouth.net] Sent: Wednesday, March 03, 2004 4:07 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Add All to List ...the easiest way is to "if" the combo's after update event :) After Update Event cboCustomer If Me![cboCustomer] = "" Then DoCmd ShowAllRecords Else DoCmd ApplyFilter , "[State] = Forms![cboCustomer]![cboCustomer]" End If William Hindman "My idea of an agreeable person is a person who agrees with me." Disraeli ----- Original Message ----- From: "Hollis,Virginia" To: "'Access Developers discussion and problem solving'" Sent: Wednesday, March 03, 2004 4:29 PM Subject: RE: [AccessD] Add All to List > I don't know what I am doing wrong.... The all shows at the top of the list, > but All the records do not show on the subform. The combobox is still > showing the first record when it opens and the subform is filtered for that > record. > > What makes the All part of "ALL" in the combo box work? > > Virginia > > -----Original Message----- > From: William Hindman [mailto:wdhindman at bellsouth.net] > Sent: Wednesday, March 03, 2004 8:09 AM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: Re: [AccessD] Add All to List > > > Virginia > > ...use a UNION SELECT in the combo record source to add an ALL. > > ...example: > > SELECT DISTINCTROW Customers.Company, Customers.[Customer Number] FROM > Customers UNION SELECT "","" FROM Customers ORDER BY Customers.Company; > > William Hindman "My idea of an agreeable person is a person who agrees with > me." Disraeli > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Hollis,Virginia" > To: > Sent: Wednesday, March 03, 2004 8:45 AM > Subject: [AccessD] Add All to List > > > > How do you add All to List? This form contains 2 combo boxes on a > > main > form. > > Selecting data shows data on a subform for the related combo box choices. > > > > I need to either have an All in the combo boxes or when the form > > opens, I > > would like them to be blank. > > > > I tried this code in the On Open of the main form, but it still > > opens to > > the first record with entries in both combo boxes. > > > > With Me > > .cboNCSANo = "" > > .cboProcedure = "" > > End With > > > > Virginia > > -- > > _______________________________________________ > > AccessD mailing list > > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From cfoust at infostatsystems.com Thu Mar 4 11:04:43 2004 From: cfoust at infostatsystems.com (Charlotte Foust) Date: Thu, 4 Mar 2004 09:04:43 -0800 Subject: [AccessD] OT: MZ-Tools, Smart Indenter Message-ID: I use MZ-Tools daily. It makes things like inserting error handlers WAY easier than anything else I've found. Charlotte Foust -----Original Message----- From: S D [mailto:accessd667 at yahoo.com] Sent: Thursday, March 04, 2004 1:34 AM To: accessd Subject: [AccessD] OT: MZ-Tools, Smart Indenter Hi group, For those who do not use MZ-Tools and/ or Smart Indenter. Check 'm out! Great free tools that save a lot of time. Sander PS: I didn't build these or anything like it. I only use them :-) --------------------------------- Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Search - Find what you're looking for faster. -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From Bryan_Carbonnell at cbc.ca Thu Mar 4 11:33:17 2004 From: Bryan_Carbonnell at cbc.ca (Bryan Carbonnell) Date: Thu, 04 Mar 2004 12:33:17 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] RE: Age of the List was (Drew - Age of the Archives?) Message-ID: Well, actually AccessD, as a list has been around for more than 7 years, IIRC. It was originally hosted by David Scott at the MT Group. DatabaseAdvisors, Inc has only been around since 2001 I just had a quick look at the Internet archive and have come up with a reference from 1997 (http://web.archive.org/web/19971221192627/http://mtgroup.com/) but I'm sure it's been around for longer than that. Bryan Carbonnell bryan_carbonnell at cbc.ca >>> john at winhaven.net 04-Mar-04 11:51:06 AM >>> Not according to our website! I had thought I joined in May of 2000 but when I saw that I figured it must have been May of 2001. I could be wrong. The only way to verify it woul dbe backup tapes and BLA! -its bad enough when I have to use them :o) -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of William Hindman Sent: Thursday, March 04, 2004 10:28 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Drew - Age of the Archives? ...AccessD was alive and well long before 2001 :) William Hindman "My idea of an agreeable person is a person who agrees with me." Disraeli ----- Original Message ----- From: "John Bartow" To: "Access Developers discussion and problem solving" Sent: Thursday, March 04, 2004 10:51 AM Subject: RE: [AccessD] Drew - Age of the Archives? > I don't blame you, after the run of luck you've had! > > I'm leery every time I do a presentation. I don't mind speaking in front of > people but it seems something always goes wrong - no matter how prepared I > am. I've done presentations for conferences where the coordinator guaranteed > the equipment was what I asked for and when I show up they have projectors > that don't handle 1024x768 which is the only res. at which my laptop's video > looks good (640 cuts the text lines up). I had another conference where I > was setup 30 minutes early, everything worked fine, unplug my laptop and the > first presenter plugs his in, he goes on and finishes, I plug my laptop into > the projector and POOF my laptop's screen goes out. It took about 20 minutes > to get it all rearranged so that my partner could run the presentation from > the projected image rather than the laptop, while I talked about it. (we > were showing a new app. live of course.) Luckily there was a third presenter > that went on in our time slot and 500 people weren't just sitting there > getting irritated. Took a month to get the screen replaced too :o( > > John > > BTW AccessD as we know it was formed in 2001 so I guess I have it narrowed > down enough now :o) > > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of > DWUTKA at marlow.com > Sent: Wednesday, March 03, 2004 11:47 AM > To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com > Subject: RE: [AccessD] Drew - Age of the Archives? > > > I actually gave a presentation on the 'indexing' capabilities I built for > the archives last month. After my track record with major changes/updates > to the archives, I was just a little leary to give that presentation....go > figure! > > Drew > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of John Bartow > Sent: Wednesday, March 03, 2004 11:24 AM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: RE: [AccessD] Drew - Age of the Archives? > > > Drew, > Yes, it is an interesting timeline, I thought of a few of those things too! > :o) > > Thanks, > John > > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of > DWUTKA at marlow.com > Sent: Wednesday, March 03, 2004 10:47 AM > To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com > Subject: RE: [AccessD] Drew - Age of the Archives? > > > Hmmmm, let's work backwards. I know that the archives stopping archiving > this past August/September (2003), because that's when I separated from > Tammy. I know the archives started using the 'Memo Field Indexing' in April > of 2003, because that is when my apartment caught fire. I know I moved the > archives from Marlow to my home in early January of 2003, because my DSL > company went bankrupt and pulled the plug on their network then. > > I have no clue when I actually 'started' the archives, other then a wild > guess at about 6 months before I moved it home. So I would say July or > August of 2002. > > Drew (Interesting timeline, eh?) > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of John Bartow > Sent: Tuesday, March 02, 2004 9:00 PM > To: _DBA-Access > Subject: [AccessD] Drew - Age of the Archives? > > > Drew, > Someone recently asked me how long I have been on this list. The only point > of reference I could think of was about two years before I sent all my > archives to Drew! > > So, Do you know when you put the archives together on your site? > > John "My memory is 40 years ahead of it time (I have a like I'm over 80)" > Bartow > > > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From DWUTKA at marlow.com Thu Mar 4 11:35:20 2004 From: DWUTKA at marlow.com (DWUTKA at marlow.com) Date: Thu, 4 Mar 2004 11:35:20 -0600 Subject: [AccessD] Drew - Age of the Archives? Message-ID: <2F8793082E00D4119A1700B0D0216BF802227938@main2.marlow.com> LOL. Been there myself, several times. My biggest 'presentation' issue, is due to the situation I am in. I am half of an IT department, and the rest of the company is relatively clueless when it comes to computers. So when I am presenting a new 'project', I will almost always get a 'This should be easy, but how do I do.....'. What they ask for is usually WAY beyond the scope of the project, but to them, it's just another magic button. Gotta love it! Drew -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of John Bartow Sent: Thursday, March 04, 2004 9:51 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] Drew - Age of the Archives? I don't blame you, after the run of luck you've had! I'm leery every time I do a presentation. I don't mind speaking in front of people but it seems something always goes wrong - no matter how prepared I am. I've done presentations for conferences where the coordinator guaranteed the equipment was what I asked for and when I show up they have projectors that don't handle 1024x768 which is the only res. at which my laptop's video looks good (640 cuts the text lines up). I had another conference where I was setup 30 minutes early, everything worked fine, unplug my laptop and the first presenter plugs his in, he goes on and finishes, I plug my laptop into the projector and POOF my laptop's screen goes out. It took about 20 minutes to get it all rearranged so that my partner could run the presentation from the projected image rather than the laptop, while I talked about it. (we were showing a new app. live of course.) Luckily there was a third presenter that went on in our time slot and 500 people weren't just sitting there getting irritated. Took a month to get the screen replaced too :o( John BTW AccessD as we know it was formed in 2001 so I guess I have it narrowed down enough now :o) -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of DWUTKA at marlow.com Sent: Wednesday, March 03, 2004 11:47 AM To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: RE: [AccessD] Drew - Age of the Archives? I actually gave a presentation on the 'indexing' capabilities I built for the archives last month. After my track record with major changes/updates to the archives, I was just a little leary to give that presentation....go figure! Drew -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of John Bartow Sent: Wednesday, March 03, 2004 11:24 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] Drew - Age of the Archives? Drew, Yes, it is an interesting timeline, I thought of a few of those things too! :o) Thanks, John -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of DWUTKA at marlow.com Sent: Wednesday, March 03, 2004 10:47 AM To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: RE: [AccessD] Drew - Age of the Archives? Hmmmm, let's work backwards. I know that the archives stopping archiving this past August/September (2003), because that's when I separated from Tammy. I know the archives started using the 'Memo Field Indexing' in April of 2003, because that is when my apartment caught fire. I know I moved the archives from Marlow to my home in early January of 2003, because my DSL company went bankrupt and pulled the plug on their network then. I have no clue when I actually 'started' the archives, other then a wild guess at about 6 months before I moved it home. So I would say July or August of 2002. Drew (Interesting timeline, eh?) -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of John Bartow Sent: Tuesday, March 02, 2004 9:00 PM To: _DBA-Access Subject: [AccessD] Drew - Age of the Archives? Drew, Someone recently asked me how long I have been on this list. The only point of reference I could think of was about two years before I sent all my archives to Drew! So, Do you know when you put the archives together on your site? John "My memory is 40 years ahead of it time (I have a like I'm over 80)" Bartow -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com Thu Mar 4 11:45:28 2004 From: jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com (John W. Colby) Date: Thu, 4 Mar 2004 12:45:28 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Add All to List In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Learn something new every day. 8-) John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Charlotte Foust Sent: Thursday, March 04, 2004 11:58 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] Add All to List John, >>The [] generally denotes a field and usually tells the compiler to try and interpret whatever is between the [] as a field name. I have to disagree. The [] denotes an object as distinct from a variable. If you use square brackets around a control name in CBF and leave off the Me. Or Me!, Access will correctly infer that you are referring to an object on the form, even if you screw up the spelling. Without the square brackets, it will think you have an undeclared variable. Charlotte Foust -----Original Message----- From: John W. Colby [mailto:jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com] Sent: Thursday, March 04, 2004 6:04 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] Add All to List Is this combo bound to a nontext field? If so then the first column (column(0) must be a numeric value. Furthermore the syntax Me![cboNCSANo] MAY be correct but I don't think so. It should be me!cboNCNSANo The [] generally denotes a field and usually tells the compiler to try and interpret whatever is between the [] as a field name. In any event, whether or not the [] is legal, me!CtlName is definitely valid. Further if I'm not mistaken (assuming that column(0) of the combo is not bound to a numeric field which by itself would be causing your problems) The default property of a combo is column(0) which would contain the value "*" so the case should be if me!CboNCSANo = "*" then else endif You can make it unambiguous in any case by specifying the column you intend to evaluate if me!CboNCSANo.column(0) = "*" then else endif or if me!CboNCSANo.column(1) = "All" then else endif FURTHER... the SQL statement has to use a LIKE instead of an = DoCmd.ApplyFilter , "[NCSAID] LIKE " & str(Me![cboNCSANo]) The reason is that LIKE evaluates an * as a wildcard whereas = evaluates the * literally, i.e. it would match any records with an asterisk in the field. I don't think any of this has anything to do with your type mismatch though John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Hollis,Virginia Sent: Thursday, March 04, 2004 8:29 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: [AccessD] Add All to List Still struggling... On the recordsource for the combo box I put: SELECT tbl_NCSA.NCSAID, tbl_NCSA.NCSANo FROM tbl_NCSA; UNION SELECT "*", "All" FROM tbl_NCSA; This gets me the word ALL in the list. Then on the AfterUpdate of cboNCSANo, I put (this gives me a type mismatch when I select All): If Me![cboNCSANo] = "All" Then DoCmd.ShowAllRecords Else DoCmd.ApplyFilter , "[NCSAID] = " & str(Me![cboNCSANo]) End If Va. -----Original Message----- From: William Hindman [mailto:wdhindman at bellsouth.net] Sent: Wednesday, March 03, 2004 4:07 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Add All to List ...the easiest way is to "if" the combo's after update event :) After Update Event cboCustomer If Me![cboCustomer] = "" Then DoCmd ShowAllRecords Else DoCmd ApplyFilter , "[State] = Forms![cboCustomer]![cboCustomer]" End If William Hindman "My idea of an agreeable person is a person who agrees with me." Disraeli ----- Original Message ----- From: "Hollis,Virginia" To: "'Access Developers discussion and problem solving'" Sent: Wednesday, March 03, 2004 4:29 PM Subject: RE: [AccessD] Add All to List > I don't know what I am doing wrong.... The all shows at the top of the list, > but All the records do not show on the subform. The combobox is still > showing the first record when it opens and the subform is filtered for that > record. > > What makes the All part of "ALL" in the combo box work? > > Virginia > > -----Original Message----- > From: William Hindman [mailto:wdhindman at bellsouth.net] > Sent: Wednesday, March 03, 2004 8:09 AM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: Re: [AccessD] Add All to List > > > Virginia > > ...use a UNION SELECT in the combo record source to add an ALL. > > ...example: > > SELECT DISTINCTROW Customers.Company, Customers.[Customer Number] FROM > Customers UNION SELECT "","" FROM Customers ORDER BY Customers.Company; > > William Hindman "My idea of an agreeable person is a person who agrees with > me." Disraeli > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Hollis,Virginia" > To: > Sent: Wednesday, March 03, 2004 8:45 AM > Subject: [AccessD] Add All to List > > > > How do you add All to List? This form contains 2 combo boxes on a > > main > form. > > Selecting data shows data on a subform for the related combo box choices. > > > > I need to either have an All in the combo boxes or when the form > > opens, I > > would like them to be blank. > > > > I tried this code in the On Open of the main form, but it still > > opens to > > the first record with entries in both combo boxes. > > > > With Me > > .cboNCSANo = "" > > .cboProcedure = "" > > End With > > > > Virginia > > -- > > _______________________________________________ > > AccessD mailing list > > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com Thu Mar 4 11:48:05 2004 From: jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com (John W. Colby) Date: Thu, 4 Mar 2004 12:48:05 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Frameworks, what are they? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: That would be it. Mere mortals. John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Jim Dettman Sent: Thursday, March 04, 2004 12:00 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] Frameworks, what are they? John, <> You might be thinking me "Mere Mortals" <> Yes I would agree and I've been thinking of why there are not any for Access. It's certainly been around long enough. I've thought of a couple things: 1. Most Access apps are "developed" by non-professionals, so they have a tendency to use what's in front of them. 2. Because of #1, most of the apps developed are fairly simple. 3. For a professional developer, Access already provides significant tools and features to use for development (i.e. Main/Subforms). << I have thought about trying to develop and sell one but reality always intervenes.>> I hear you there. During the A2 release, I really started digging into the MDB structure with the intent of offering database utilities. Took a lot of time and I had to pay the bills. So I gave up on it. I figured that by the time I did it, the JET team would either come out with utilities or take care of the corruption issue. Now I could kick myself in the butt for not sticking with it. Jim (315) 699-3443 jimdettman at earthlink.net -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of John W. Colby Sent: Thursday, March 04, 2004 10:26 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] Frameworks, what are they? Back when I was supervising that VP project I mentioned at lunch, we found and bought something called Framework for normal people or something like that. Basically starting with a purchased framework is good... they just don't seem to exist for Access. I have thought about trying to develop and sell one but reality always intervenes. John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Jim Dettman Sent: Thursday, March 04, 2004 9:58 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] Frameworks, what are they? John, I hate to mention VFP on the Access list, but in terms of Frameworks it has many and the features that they offer are listed here: http://fox.wikis.com/wc.dll?Wiki~FrameworkFeatureChart~VFP Items compared are things like Developer Tools, End User Features, etc. Quite a bit of info there on frameworks in general. If you wanted to look at one more specifically, I use VMP, which has a downloadable help file that you can look at. You can find that here: http://www.visionds.com/vmpsite/ Look under VMP 2004, Download VMPHELP.CHM Jim Dettman President, Online Computer Services of WNY, Inc. (315) 699-3443 jimdettman at earthlink.net -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of John W. Colby Sent: Wednesday, March 03, 2004 8:44 PM To: AccessD Subject: [AccessD] Frameworks, what are they? Robert, The only example I have of a running framework is my own. Unfortunately it is so complex at this point it would be undecipherable to anyone but me I'm afraid. You have heard me discuss the various functionalities I have placed into my framework. In order to understand my stuff you would have to wade through all that stuff I have mentioned. I am certainly willing to post it somewhere with an application that uses it so that you can see how I do things but I'm truly uncertain whether a discussion could address my framework without getting pretty deep pretty fast. A framework is really nothing more than a skeleton upon which you hang an application. As you need more functionality, if it is generic and useful to the next app you add it to the framework. In this day and age, you really need to be thinking classes however since they allow you to set up containers for related functionality. I am going to cc the list however. We have many developers who have developed their own framework. I have never seen anyone else's so I can't vouch for how complex they are now how conceptually similar to what I do, but if we address the list, perhaps we can get a discussion going on this stuff. John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com -----Original Message----- From: Robert Gracie [mailto:Robert at servicexp.com] Sent: Wednesday, March 03, 2004 8:18 PM To: jcolby at colbyconsulting.com Subject: I have a question John, I have really appreciated the help over the last few months in regards to "DEEP" programming, your examples have been very helpful. I'm intrigued with "framework" idea however I have no idea where to get started. My question is; do you have any examples of a running "framework", or any books that explain how to set this sort of thing up? Thanks Again!! Robert Gracie -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From dw-murphy at cox.net Thu Mar 4 11:58:44 2004 From: dw-murphy at cox.net (Doug Murphy) Date: Thu, 4 Mar 2004 09:58:44 -0800 Subject: [AccessD] Deployment In-Reply-To: <006901c40137$fc4cb0d0$6801a8c0@HAL9002> Message-ID: <001001c40212$56329940$8500a8c0@CX615377a> Hi Rocky, I have done several install packages using XP Deveoper, Wise and Sagekey and the package is usually a little less than 60 Meg. If your users have high speed connections this isn't too bad to download. Could be painfull over a dial up connection. Doug Douglas Murphy Murphy's Creativity (619) 334-5121 doug at murphyscreativity.com www.murphyscreativity.com -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Rocky Smolin - Beach Access Software Sent: Wednesday, March 03, 2004 7:56 AM To: AccessD at databaseadvisors.com Subject: [AccessD] Deployment Dear List: I've got an app I'm developing for the consumer market and we're in beta testing now. It's in A2K so all the betas have to have Access. Eventually it will have to be packaged as a run-time. But at that point it will be shrink-wrapped. In the short term we could expand our beta testing universe with a run-time. So I'm trying to figure out the best way to do this. The problem AFAIK with the run-times is their size. Right now we can email the mde to a beta tester and it's about 3-4MB. If I put up a run-time on my web site, beta testers are not likely to know how to do an FTP program. I suppose I could make a password protected folder on my web site, and get my web site developer to make the run-time downloadable or installable from the site. I don't know how to do this. Maybe she does. I've got A97 developer's edition, Wise Installer, and the Sagekey script for A97. But I don't think that the app can be converted back to A97. In any event, the total A97/Wise/Sagekey package runs to about 70MB IIRC. I could buy A2002 or A2003 if they've got a better deployment capability than they've had in the past. What are your recommendations, suggestions, thoughts? Thanks in advance, Rocky Smolin Beach Access Software -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com Thu Mar 4 12:07:28 2004 From: jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com (John W. Colby) Date: Thu, 4 Mar 2004 13:07:28 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] RE: Age of the List was (Drew - Age of the Archives?) In-Reply-To: Message-ID: I joined the list in July 1997. At that time it was hosted by MT group / David Scott. DatabaseAdvisors was of course formed to manage AccessD when David decided he'd had enough and wanted to shut the group down. John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Bryan Carbonnell Sent: Thursday, March 04, 2004 12:33 PM To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: [AccessD] RE: Age of the List was (Drew - Age of the Archives?) Well, actually AccessD, as a list has been around for more than 7 years, IIRC. It was originally hosted by David Scott at the MT Group. DatabaseAdvisors, Inc has only been around since 2001 I just had a quick look at the Internet archive and have come up with a reference from 1997 (http://web.archive.org/web/19971221192627/http://mtgroup.com/) but I'm sure it's been around for longer than that. Bryan Carbonnell bryan_carbonnell at cbc.ca >>> john at winhaven.net 04-Mar-04 11:51:06 AM >>> Not according to our website! I had thought I joined in May of 2000 but when I saw that I figured it must have been May of 2001. I could be wrong. The only way to verify it woul dbe backup tapes and BLA! -its bad enough when I have to use them :o) -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of William Hindman Sent: Thursday, March 04, 2004 10:28 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Drew - Age of the Archives? ...AccessD was alive and well long before 2001 :) William Hindman "My idea of an agreeable person is a person who agrees with me." Disraeli ----- Original Message ----- From: "John Bartow" To: "Access Developers discussion and problem solving" Sent: Thursday, March 04, 2004 10:51 AM Subject: RE: [AccessD] Drew - Age of the Archives? > I don't blame you, after the run of luck you've had! > > I'm leery every time I do a presentation. I don't mind speaking in front of > people but it seems something always goes wrong - no matter how prepared I > am. I've done presentations for conferences where the coordinator guaranteed > the equipment was what I asked for and when I show up they have projectors > that don't handle 1024x768 which is the only res. at which my laptop's video > looks good (640 cuts the text lines up). I had another conference where I > was setup 30 minutes early, everything worked fine, unplug my laptop and the > first presenter plugs his in, he goes on and finishes, I plug my laptop into > the projector and POOF my laptop's screen goes out. It took about 20 minutes > to get it all rearranged so that my partner could run the presentation from > the projected image rather than the laptop, while I talked about it. (we > were showing a new app. live of course.) Luckily there was a third presenter > that went on in our time slot and 500 people weren't just sitting there > getting irritated. Took a month to get the screen replaced too :o( > > John > > BTW AccessD as we know it was formed in 2001 so I guess I have it narrowed > down enough now :o) > > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of > DWUTKA at marlow.com > Sent: Wednesday, March 03, 2004 11:47 AM > To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com > Subject: RE: [AccessD] Drew - Age of the Archives? > > > I actually gave a presentation on the 'indexing' capabilities I built for > the archives last month. After my track record with major changes/updates > to the archives, I was just a little leary to give that presentation....go > figure! > > Drew > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of John Bartow > Sent: Wednesday, March 03, 2004 11:24 AM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: RE: [AccessD] Drew - Age of the Archives? > > > Drew, > Yes, it is an interesting timeline, I thought of a few of those things too! > :o) > > Thanks, > John > > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of > DWUTKA at marlow.com > Sent: Wednesday, March 03, 2004 10:47 AM > To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com > Subject: RE: [AccessD] Drew - Age of the Archives? > > > Hmmmm, let's work backwards. I know that the archives stopping archiving > this past August/September (2003), because that's when I separated from > Tammy. I know the archives started using the 'Memo Field Indexing' in April > of 2003, because that is when my apartment caught fire. I know I moved the > archives from Marlow to my home in early January of 2003, because my DSL > company went bankrupt and pulled the plug on their network then. > > I have no clue when I actually 'started' the archives, other then a wild > guess at about 6 months before I moved it home. So I would say July or > August of 2002. > > Drew (Interesting timeline, eh?) > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of John Bartow > Sent: Tuesday, March 02, 2004 9:00 PM > To: _DBA-Access > Subject: [AccessD] Drew - Age of the Archives? > > > Drew, > Someone recently asked me how long I have been on this list. The only point > of reference I could think of was about two years before I sent all my > archives to Drew! > > So, Do you know when you put the archives together on your site? > > John "My memory is 40 years ahead of it time (I have a like I'm over 80)" > Bartow > > > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From stephen at bondsoftware.co.nz Thu Mar 4 02:04:22 2004 From: stephen at bondsoftware.co.nz (Stephen Bond) Date: Thu, 04 Mar 2004 21:04:22 +1300 Subject: [AccessD] increasing backend Message-ID: <70F3D727890C784291D8433E9C418F298F6A@server.bondsoftware.co.nz> Pedro, only a few records added, but were lots of existing records *changed*? We found huge bloat even when adding just a few records but doing maintenance on many. I read somewhere (but can't remember where) that changing data in fields on a record causes MSAccess to 'rewrite' to a different physical location and delete the origianl record. This would make a 'change' equivalent to a 'delete' and 'add new'. Anyone else comment? Stephen Bond > -----Original Message----- > From: Pedro Janssen [mailto:pedro at plex.nl] > Sent: Thursday, 4 March 2004 11:35 a.m. > To: AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > Subject: [AccessD] increasing backend > > > Hello Group, > > how is it possible that a backend-database increases from 5 > to 17 Mb, when only a few records are added. After compiling > it was again 5 Mb. > > Pedro Janssen > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > From jwelz at hotmail.com Thu Mar 4 13:12:01 2004 From: jwelz at hotmail.com (Jürgen Welz) Date: Thu, 04 Mar 2004 12:12:01 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] Drew - Age of the Archives? Message-ID: My last presentation fell completely apart. I attended a provinical construction association annual banquet to accept an industry award for innovation for an application I had written for a former employer, now client, Gracom Masonry. The client gave me a typical 'secured' laptop (paranoid parent company security) a few days in advance to prepare a short demo. The plan was to demonstrate a typical cycle of the steps to enter a new bid request to takeoff to estimate to tender to award to management and some of the reporting capability. The client flew me to the city a day early so I could drop in one of their local offices and ensure all was well. I checked the banquet facility and the projector was running an identical make and model laptop when I dropped in. In fact, they had set up a rear projection system capable of running 1600 * 1200 resolution from the VGA connector complete with switch boxes to hookup multiple concurrent VGA connectors. I even had dial up access to the terminal server in case anything went south on the laptop. When it came down to the evening, it turned out there were video driver issues on the laptop that ONLY AFFECTED THE VGA OUT!!! The laptop would output to the external VGA port until the login screen closed so it was not a hardware issue. Typical company security prevents a means of transferring files to another machine (disabled USB and no floppy or CD Writer). Parent company called in an MSCE tech at the 11th hour to the presentation site but it was not possible to resolve the issues nor to migrate any of the functionality to another machine in the time remaining. I had done several training sessions in the past using their laptops in addition to some presentations at a local Access user group using the company laptops so I never bothered to check the VGA out against a monitor in a timely fashion. Next time I bring my own laptop as a spare, a backup Power Point demo on CD and a plan on how to present should the projector fail. The result was that a fabulous marketing opportunity turned to dust as I was reduced to telling a hall full of people about all the wonderful things the application could do when my plan was a quick and carefully planned demo/script of how fast and easy it was to get a job done. A technology award for an outfit that can't use technology? Ciao J?rgen Welz Edmonton, Alberta jwelz at hotmail.com > >LOL. Been there myself, several times. My biggest 'presentation' issue, >is >due to the situation I am in. I am half of an IT department, and the rest >of the company is relatively clueless when it comes to computers. So when >I >am presenting a new 'project', I will almost always get a 'This should be >easy, but how do I do.....'. What they ask for is usually WAY beyond the >scope of the project, but to them, it's just another magic button. > >Gotta love it! > >Drew _________________________________________________________________ The new MSN 8: advanced junk mail protection and 2 months FREE* http://join.msn.com/?page=dept/bcomm&pgmarket=en-ca&RU=http%3a%2f%2fjoin.msn.com%2f%3fpage%3dmisc%2fspecialoffers%26pgmarket%3den-ca From Jim.Hale at FleetPride.com Thu Mar 4 13:24:26 2004 From: Jim.Hale at FleetPride.com (Hale, Jim) Date: Thu, 4 Mar 2004 13:24:26 -0600 Subject: [AccessD] Drew - Age of the Archives? Message-ID: <6A6AA9DF57E4F046BDA1E273BDDB677201AAE4@corp-es01.fleetpride.com> That's okay, I remember Bill Gates giving a demonstration of Windows 3.1 to the Houston area league of PC users (circa 1991?) when Windows froze. Required the three finger salute to get it going again. :-) Jim Hale -----Original Message----- From: John Bartow [mailto:john at winhaven.net] Sent: Thursday, March 04, 2004 9:51 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] Drew - Age of the Archives? I don't blame you, after the run of luck you've had! I'm leery every time I do a presentation. I don't mind speaking in front of people but it seems something always goes wrong - no matter how prepared I am. I've done presentations for conferences where the coordinator guaranteed the equipment was what I asked for and when I show up they have projectors that don't handle 1024x768 which is the only res. at which my laptop's video looks good (640 cuts the text lines up). I had another conference where I was setup 30 minutes early, everything worked fine, unplug my laptop and the first presenter plugs his in, he goes on and finishes, I plug my laptop into the projector and POOF my laptop's screen goes out. It took about 20 minutes to get it all rearranged so that my partner could run the presentation from the projected image rather than the laptop, while I talked about it. (we were showing a new app. live of course.) Luckily there was a third presenter that went on in our time slot and 500 people weren't just sitting there getting irritated. Took a month to get the screen replaced too :o( John BTW AccessD as we know it was formed in 2001 so I guess I have it narrowed down enough now :o) -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of DWUTKA at marlow.com Sent: Wednesday, March 03, 2004 11:47 AM To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: RE: [AccessD] Drew - Age of the Archives? I actually gave a presentation on the 'indexing' capabilities I built for the archives last month. After my track record with major changes/updates to the archives, I was just a little leary to give that presentation....go figure! Drew -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of John Bartow Sent: Wednesday, March 03, 2004 11:24 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] Drew - Age of the Archives? Drew, Yes, it is an interesting timeline, I thought of a few of those things too! :o) Thanks, John -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of DWUTKA at marlow.com Sent: Wednesday, March 03, 2004 10:47 AM To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: RE: [AccessD] Drew - Age of the Archives? Hmmmm, let's work backwards. I know that the archives stopping archiving this past August/September (2003), because that's when I separated from Tammy. I know the archives started using the 'Memo Field Indexing' in April of 2003, because that is when my apartment caught fire. I know I moved the archives from Marlow to my home in early January of 2003, because my DSL company went bankrupt and pulled the plug on their network then. I have no clue when I actually 'started' the archives, other then a wild guess at about 6 months before I moved it home. So I would say July or August of 2002. Drew (Interesting timeline, eh?) -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of John Bartow Sent: Tuesday, March 02, 2004 9:00 PM To: _DBA-Access Subject: [AccessD] Drew - Age of the Archives? Drew, Someone recently asked me how long I have been on this list. The only point of reference I could think of was about two years before I sent all my archives to Drew! So, Do you know when you put the archives together on your site? John "My memory is 40 years ahead of it time (I have a like I'm over 80)" Bartow -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From wdhindman at bellsouth.net Thu Mar 4 13:27:51 2004 From: wdhindman at bellsouth.net (William Hindman) Date: Thu, 4 Mar 2004 14:27:51 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] RE: Age of the List was (Drew - Age of the Archives?) References: Message-ID: <004f01c4021e$c8e0b2e0$6101a8c0@dejpolsys> "DatabaseAdvisors, Inc has only been around since 2001" Bryan ...not so Bryan ...without going back into my own archives I know for a fact that dba-OT was formed immediately after the 2000 elections as a direct result of heavy OT traffic on AccessD :) William Hindman "My idea of an agreeable person is a person who agrees with me." Disraeli ----- Original Message ----- From: "Bryan Carbonnell" To: Sent: Thursday, March 04, 2004 12:33 PM Subject: [AccessD] RE: Age of the List was (Drew - Age of the Archives?) > Well, actually AccessD, as a list has been around for more than 7 years, > IIRC. It was originally hosted by David Scott at the MT Group. > > DatabaseAdvisors, Inc has only been around since 2001 > > I just had a quick look at the Internet archive and have come up with > a reference from 1997 > (http://web.archive.org/web/19971221192627/http://mtgroup.com/) but > I'm sure it's been around for longer than that. > > Bryan Carbonnell > bryan_carbonnell at cbc.ca > > >>> john at winhaven.net 04-Mar-04 11:51:06 AM >>> > Not according to our website! > > I had thought I joined in May of 2000 but when I saw that I figured it > must > have been May of 2001. I could be wrong. The only way to verify it woul > dbe > backup tapes and BLA! -its bad enough when I have to use them :o) > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of William > Hindman > Sent: Thursday, March 04, 2004 10:28 AM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: Re: [AccessD] Drew - Age of the Archives? > > > ...AccessD was alive and well long before 2001 :) > > William Hindman "My idea of an agreeable person is a person who agrees > with > me." Disraeli > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "John Bartow" > To: "Access Developers discussion and problem solving" > > Sent: Thursday, March 04, 2004 10:51 AM > Subject: RE: [AccessD] Drew - Age of the Archives? > > > > I don't blame you, after the run of luck you've had! > > > > I'm leery every time I do a presentation. I don't mind speaking in > front > of > > people but it seems something always goes wrong - no matter how > prepared I > > am. I've done presentations for conferences where the coordinator > guaranteed > > the equipment was what I asked for and when I show up they have > projectors > > that don't handle 1024x768 which is the only res. at which my > laptop's > video > > looks good (640 cuts the text lines up). I had another conference > where I > > was setup 30 minutes early, everything worked fine, unplug my laptop > and > the > > first presenter plugs his in, he goes on and finishes, I plug my > laptop > into > > the projector and POOF my laptop's screen goes out. It took about 20 > minutes > > to get it all rearranged so that my partner could run the > presentation > from > > the projected image rather than the laptop, while I talked about it. > (we > > were showing a new app. live of course.) Luckily there was a third > presenter > > that went on in our time slot and 500 people weren't just sitting > there > > getting irritated. Took a month to get the screen replaced too :o( > > > > John > > > > BTW AccessD as we know it was formed in 2001 so I guess I have it > narrowed > > down enough now :o) > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of > > DWUTKA at marlow.com > > Sent: Wednesday, March 03, 2004 11:47 AM > > To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com > > Subject: RE: [AccessD] Drew - Age of the Archives? > > > > > > I actually gave a presentation on the 'indexing' capabilities I built > for > > the archives last month. After my track record with major > changes/updates > > to the archives, I was just a little leary to give that > presentation....go > > figure! > > > > Drew > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of John > Bartow > > Sent: Wednesday, March 03, 2004 11:24 AM > > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > > Subject: RE: [AccessD] Drew - Age of the Archives? > > > > > > Drew, > > Yes, it is an interesting timeline, I thought of a few of those > things > too! > > :o) > > > > Thanks, > > John > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of > > DWUTKA at marlow.com > > Sent: Wednesday, March 03, 2004 10:47 AM > > To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com > > Subject: RE: [AccessD] Drew - Age of the Archives? > > > > > > Hmmmm, let's work backwards. I know that the archives stopping > archiving > > this past August/September (2003), because that's when I separated > from > > Tammy. I know the archives started using the 'Memo Field Indexing' > in > April > > of 2003, because that is when my apartment caught fire. I know I > moved > the > > archives from Marlow to my home in early January of 2003, because my > DSL > > company went bankrupt and pulled the plug on their network then. > > > > I have no clue when I actually 'started' the archives, other then a > wild > > guess at about 6 months before I moved it home. So I would say July > or > > August of 2002. > > > > Drew (Interesting timeline, eh?) > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of John > Bartow > > Sent: Tuesday, March 02, 2004 9:00 PM > > To: _DBA-Access > > Subject: [AccessD] Drew - Age of the Archives? > > > > > > Drew, > > Someone recently asked me how long I have been on this list. The > only > point > > of reference I could think of was about two years before I sent all > my > > archives to Drew! > > > > So, Do you know when you put the archives together on your site? > > > > John "My memory is 40 years ahead of it time (I have a like I'm over > 80)" > > Bartow > > > > > > -- > > _______________________________________________ > > AccessD mailing list > > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > -- > > _______________________________________________ > > AccessD mailing list > > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > > > > > -- > > _______________________________________________ > > AccessD mailing list > > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > -- > > _______________________________________________ > > AccessD mailing list > > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > > > > > -- > > _______________________________________________ > > AccessD mailing list > > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > From BBarabash at TappeConstruction.com Thu Mar 4 13:30:50 2004 From: BBarabash at TappeConstruction.com (Brett Barabash) Date: Thu, 4 Mar 2004 13:30:50 -0600 Subject: [AccessD] Drew - Age of the Archives? Message-ID: <426071E0B0A6D311B3C0006008B0AB23AFE3D2@TAPPEEXCH01> ...and history has a tendency of repeating itself. Remember the embarrasing 1998 Comdex incident? http://www.cnn.com/TECH/computing/9804/20/gates.comdex/ -----Original Message----- From: Hale, Jim [mailto:Jim.Hale at fleetpride.com] Sent: Thursday, March 04, 2004 1:24 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: [AccessD] Drew - Age of the Archives? That's okay, I remember Bill Gates giving a demonstration of Windows 3.1 to the Houston area league of PC users (circa 1991?) when Windows froze. Required the three finger salute to get it going again. :-) Jim Hale -----Original Message----- From: John Bartow [mailto:john at winhaven.net] Sent: Thursday, March 04, 2004 9:51 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] Drew - Age of the Archives? I don't blame you, after the run of luck you've had! I'm leery every time I do a presentation. I don't mind speaking in front of people but it seems something always goes wrong - no matter how prepared I am. I've done presentations for conferences where the coordinator guaranteed the equipment was what I asked for and when I show up they have projectors that don't handle 1024x768 which is the only res. at which my laptop's video looks good (640 cuts the text lines up). I had another conference where I was setup 30 minutes early, everything worked fine, unplug my laptop and the first presenter plugs his in, he goes on and finishes, I plug my laptop into the projector and POOF my laptop's screen goes out. It took about 20 minutes to get it all rearranged so that my partner could run the presentation from the projected image rather than the laptop, while I talked about it. (we were showing a new app. live of course.) Luckily there was a third presenter that went on in our time slot and 500 people weren't just sitting there getting irritated. Took a month to get the screen replaced too :o( John BTW AccessD as we know it was formed in 2001 so I guess I have it narrowed down enough now :o) -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of DWUTKA at marlow.com Sent: Wednesday, March 03, 2004 11:47 AM To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: RE: [AccessD] Drew - Age of the Archives? I actually gave a presentation on the 'indexing' capabilities I built for the archives last month. After my track record with major changes/updates to the archives, I was just a little leary to give that presentation....go figure! Drew -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of John Bartow Sent: Wednesday, March 03, 2004 11:24 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] Drew - Age of the Archives? Drew, Yes, it is an interesting timeline, I thought of a few of those things too! :o) Thanks, John -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of DWUTKA at marlow.com Sent: Wednesday, March 03, 2004 10:47 AM To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: RE: [AccessD] Drew - Age of the Archives? Hmmmm, let's work backwards. I know that the archives stopping archiving this past August/September (2003), because that's when I separated from Tammy. I know the archives started using the 'Memo Field Indexing' in April of 2003, because that is when my apartment caught fire. I know I moved the archives from Marlow to my home in early January of 2003, because my DSL company went bankrupt and pulled the plug on their network then. I have no clue when I actually 'started' the archives, other then a wild guess at about 6 months before I moved it home. So I would say July or August of 2002. Drew (Interesting timeline, eh?) -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of John Bartow Sent: Tuesday, March 02, 2004 9:00 PM To: _DBA-Access Subject: [AccessD] Drew - Age of the Archives? Drew, Someone recently asked me how long I have been on this list. The only point of reference I could think of was about two years before I sent all my archives to Drew! So, Do you know when you put the archives together on your site? John "My memory is 40 years ahead of it time (I have a like I'm over 80)" Bartow -------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- This email and any files transmitted with it are confidential and intended solely for the use of the individual or entity to whom they are addressed. If you have received this email in error please notify the originator of the message. This footer also confirms that this email message has been scanned for the presence of computer viruses. Any views expressed in this message are those of the individual sender, except where the sender specifies and with authority, states them to be the views of Tappe Construction Co. Scanning of this message and addition of this footer is performed by SurfControl E-mail Filter software in conjunction with virus detection software. From Bryan_Carbonnell at cbc.ca Thu Mar 4 13:37:47 2004 From: Bryan_Carbonnell at cbc.ca (Bryan Carbonnell) Date: Thu, 04 Mar 2004 14:37:47 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] RE: Age of the List was (Drew - Age of the Archives?) Message-ID: Mea Culpa. I was just going by John's post of what he found on DBA's site. Bryan >>> wdhindman at bellsouth.net 04-Mar-04 2:27:51 PM >>> "DatabaseAdvisors, Inc has only been around since 2001" Bryan ...not so Bryan ...without going back into my own archives I know for a fact that dba-OT was formed immediately after the 2000 elections as a direct result of heavy OT traffic on AccessD :) William Hindman "My idea of an agreeable person is a person who agrees with me." Disraeli From DWUTKA at marlow.com Thu Mar 4 14:05:35 2004 From: DWUTKA at marlow.com (DWUTKA at marlow.com) Date: Thu, 4 Mar 2004 14:05:35 -0600 Subject: [AccessD] How to Deal with Time Durations Message-ID: <2F8793082E00D4119A1700B0D0216BF80222793A@main2.marlow.com> I would record the date/time field, versus recording the duration. The duration is simply the difference between the start and end time, and will display properly in the table itself. The 'duration' would still be stored as a date/time (or a double...technically the same....). Drew -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Bryan Carbonnell Sent: Thursday, March 04, 2004 8:44 AM To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: [AccessD] How to Deal with Time Durations In a new app that I am creating, of which you will probably hear ALL about it over the next few weeks :), I have to keep track of event durations. Right now I have a field for the start time, and one for the duration. Both are Date/Time fields. The durations for the event can last from 1 second all the way up to many hours, and possibly even days. Should I actually be storing the start and end time and calculating the duration? The duration can be entered as either the actual duration or the actual end time. If you have done something like this, how have you handled it? Thanks, Bryan Carbonnell bryan_carbonnell at cbc.ca -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From john at winhaven.net Thu Mar 4 14:06:21 2004 From: john at winhaven.net (John Bartow) Date: Thu, 4 Mar 2004 14:06:21 -0600 Subject: [AccessD] RE: Age of the List was (Drew - Age of the Archives?) In-Reply-To: <004f01c4021e$c8e0b2e0$6101a8c0@dejpolsys> Message-ID: I remember when you all set up OT (I didn't join it then as I was actually "too" too busy). I don't remember any discussion about setting up DatabaseAdvisors, Inc as an entity though. John -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of William Hindman Sent: Thursday, March 04, 2004 1:28 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] RE: Age of the List was (Drew - Age of the Archives?) "DatabaseAdvisors, Inc has only been around since 2001" Bryan ...not so Bryan ...without going back into my own archives I know for a fact that dba-OT was formed immediately after the 2000 elections as a direct result of heavy OT traffic on AccessD :) William Hindman "My idea of an agreeable person is a person who agrees with me." Disraeli ----- Original Message ----- From: "Bryan Carbonnell" To: Sent: Thursday, March 04, 2004 12:33 PM Subject: [AccessD] RE: Age of the List was (Drew - Age of the Archives?) > Well, actually AccessD, as a list has been around for more than 7 years, > IIRC. It was originally hosted by David Scott at the MT Group. > > DatabaseAdvisors, Inc has only been around since 2001 > > I just had a quick look at the Internet archive and have come up with > a reference from 1997 > (http://web.archive.org/web/19971221192627/http://mtgroup.com/) but > I'm sure it's been around for longer than that. > > Bryan Carbonnell > bryan_carbonnell at cbc.ca > > >>> john at winhaven.net 04-Mar-04 11:51:06 AM >>> > Not according to our website! > > I had thought I joined in May of 2000 but when I saw that I figured it > must > have been May of 2001. I could be wrong. The only way to verify it woul > dbe > backup tapes and BLA! -its bad enough when I have to use them :o) > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of William > Hindman > Sent: Thursday, March 04, 2004 10:28 AM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: Re: [AccessD] Drew - Age of the Archives? > > > ...AccessD was alive and well long before 2001 :) > > William Hindman "My idea of an agreeable person is a person who agrees > with > me." Disraeli > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "John Bartow" > To: "Access Developers discussion and problem solving" > > Sent: Thursday, March 04, 2004 10:51 AM > Subject: RE: [AccessD] Drew - Age of the Archives? > > > > I don't blame you, after the run of luck you've had! > > > > I'm leery every time I do a presentation. I don't mind speaking in > front > of > > people but it seems something always goes wrong - no matter how > prepared I > > am. I've done presentations for conferences where the coordinator > guaranteed > > the equipment was what I asked for and when I show up they have > projectors > > that don't handle 1024x768 which is the only res. at which my > laptop's > video > > looks good (640 cuts the text lines up). I had another conference > where I > > was setup 30 minutes early, everything worked fine, unplug my laptop > and > the > > first presenter plugs his in, he goes on and finishes, I plug my > laptop > into > > the projector and POOF my laptop's screen goes out. It took about 20 > minutes > > to get it all rearranged so that my partner could run the > presentation > from > > the projected image rather than the laptop, while I talked about it. > (we > > were showing a new app. live of course.) Luckily there was a third > presenter > > that went on in our time slot and 500 people weren't just sitting > there > > getting irritated. Took a month to get the screen replaced too :o( > > > > John > > > > BTW AccessD as we know it was formed in 2001 so I guess I have it > narrowed > > down enough now :o) > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of > > DWUTKA at marlow.com > > Sent: Wednesday, March 03, 2004 11:47 AM > > To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com > > Subject: RE: [AccessD] Drew - Age of the Archives? > > > > > > I actually gave a presentation on the 'indexing' capabilities I built > for > > the archives last month. After my track record with major > changes/updates > > to the archives, I was just a little leary to give that > presentation....go > > figure! > > > > Drew > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of John > Bartow > > Sent: Wednesday, March 03, 2004 11:24 AM > > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > > Subject: RE: [AccessD] Drew - Age of the Archives? > > > > > > Drew, > > Yes, it is an interesting timeline, I thought of a few of those > things > too! > > :o) > > > > Thanks, > > John > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of > > DWUTKA at marlow.com > > Sent: Wednesday, March 03, 2004 10:47 AM > > To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com > > Subject: RE: [AccessD] Drew - Age of the Archives? > > > > > > Hmmmm, let's work backwards. I know that the archives stopping > archiving > > this past August/September (2003), because that's when I separated > from > > Tammy. I know the archives started using the 'Memo Field Indexing' > in > April > > of 2003, because that is when my apartment caught fire. I know I > moved > the > > archives from Marlow to my home in early January of 2003, because my > DSL > > company went bankrupt and pulled the plug on their network then. > > > > I have no clue when I actually 'started' the archives, other then a > wild > > guess at about 6 months before I moved it home. So I would say July > or > > August of 2002. > > > > Drew (Interesting timeline, eh?) > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of John > Bartow > > Sent: Tuesday, March 02, 2004 9:00 PM > > To: _DBA-Access > > Subject: [AccessD] Drew - Age of the Archives? > > > > > > Drew, > > Someone recently asked me how long I have been on this list. The > only > point > > of reference I could think of was about two years before I sent all > my > > archives to Drew! > > > > So, Do you know when you put the archives together on your site? > > > > John "My memory is 40 years ahead of it time (I have a like I'm over > 80)" > > Bartow > > > > > > -- > > _______________________________________________ > > AccessD mailing list > > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > -- > > _______________________________________________ > > AccessD mailing list > > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > > > > > -- > > _______________________________________________ > > AccessD mailing list > > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > -- > > _______________________________________________ > > AccessD mailing list > > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > > > > > -- > > _______________________________________________ > > AccessD mailing list > > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From DWUTKA at marlow.com Thu Mar 4 14:10:37 2004 From: DWUTKA at marlow.com (DWUTKA at marlow.com) Date: Thu, 4 Mar 2004 14:10:37 -0600 Subject: [AccessD] Drew - Age of the Archives? Message-ID: <2F8793082E00D4119A1700B0D0216BF80222793B@main2.marlow.com> Like the infamous Windows 98 unveiling. That was a streaming video off of the net, and during the presentation, they hooked a USB printer (or scanner, don't remember which), and Windows 98 blue screened on them! LOL Drew -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Hale, Jim Sent: Thursday, March 04, 2004 1:24 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: [AccessD] Drew - Age of the Archives? That's okay, I remember Bill Gates giving a demonstration of Windows 3.1 to the Houston area league of PC users (circa 1991?) when Windows froze. Required the three finger salute to get it going again. :-) Jim Hale -----Original Message----- From: John Bartow [mailto:john at winhaven.net] Sent: Thursday, March 04, 2004 9:51 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] Drew - Age of the Archives? I don't blame you, after the run of luck you've had! I'm leery every time I do a presentation. I don't mind speaking in front of people but it seems something always goes wrong - no matter how prepared I am. I've done presentations for conferences where the coordinator guaranteed the equipment was what I asked for and when I show up they have projectors that don't handle 1024x768 which is the only res. at which my laptop's video looks good (640 cuts the text lines up). I had another conference where I was setup 30 minutes early, everything worked fine, unplug my laptop and the first presenter plugs his in, he goes on and finishes, I plug my laptop into the projector and POOF my laptop's screen goes out. It took about 20 minutes to get it all rearranged so that my partner could run the presentation from the projected image rather than the laptop, while I talked about it. (we were showing a new app. live of course.) Luckily there was a third presenter that went on in our time slot and 500 people weren't just sitting there getting irritated. Took a month to get the screen replaced too :o( John BTW AccessD as we know it was formed in 2001 so I guess I have it narrowed down enough now :o) -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of DWUTKA at marlow.com Sent: Wednesday, March 03, 2004 11:47 AM To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: RE: [AccessD] Drew - Age of the Archives? I actually gave a presentation on the 'indexing' capabilities I built for the archives last month. After my track record with major changes/updates to the archives, I was just a little leary to give that presentation....go figure! Drew -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of John Bartow Sent: Wednesday, March 03, 2004 11:24 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] Drew - Age of the Archives? Drew, Yes, it is an interesting timeline, I thought of a few of those things too! :o) Thanks, John -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of DWUTKA at marlow.com Sent: Wednesday, March 03, 2004 10:47 AM To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: RE: [AccessD] Drew - Age of the Archives? Hmmmm, let's work backwards. I know that the archives stopping archiving this past August/September (2003), because that's when I separated from Tammy. I know the archives started using the 'Memo Field Indexing' in April of 2003, because that is when my apartment caught fire. I know I moved the archives from Marlow to my home in early January of 2003, because my DSL company went bankrupt and pulled the plug on their network then. I have no clue when I actually 'started' the archives, other then a wild guess at about 6 months before I moved it home. So I would say July or August of 2002. Drew (Interesting timeline, eh?) -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of John Bartow Sent: Tuesday, March 02, 2004 9:00 PM To: _DBA-Access Subject: [AccessD] Drew - Age of the Archives? Drew, Someone recently asked me how long I have been on this list. The only point of reference I could think of was about two years before I sent all my archives to Drew! So, Do you know when you put the archives together on your site? John "My memory is 40 years ahead of it time (I have a like I'm over 80)" Bartow -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From bchacc at san.rr.com Thu Mar 4 14:24:25 2004 From: bchacc at san.rr.com (Rocky Smolin - Beach Access Software) Date: Thu, 4 Mar 2004 12:24:25 -0800 Subject: [AccessD] Deployment References: <001001c40212$56329940$8500a8c0@CX615377a> Message-ID: <01c401c40226$b007f1e0$6801a8c0@HAL9002> Doug: Have you ever used the XP deployment itself? Rocky ----- Original Message ----- From: "Doug Murphy" To: "'Access Developers discussion and problem solving'" Sent: Thursday, March 04, 2004 9:58 AM Subject: RE: [AccessD] Deployment > Hi Rocky, > > I have done several install packages using XP Deveoper, Wise and Sagekey > and the package is usually a little less than 60 Meg. If your users > have high speed connections this isn't too bad to download. Could be > painfull over a dial up connection. > > Doug > > Douglas Murphy > Murphy's Creativity > (619) 334-5121 > doug at murphyscreativity.com > www.murphyscreativity.com > > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Rocky Smolin > - Beach Access Software > Sent: Wednesday, March 03, 2004 7:56 AM > To: AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > Subject: [AccessD] Deployment > > > Dear List: > > I've got an app I'm developing for the consumer market and we're in beta > testing now. It's in A2K so all the betas have to have Access. > > Eventually it will have to be packaged as a run-time. But at that point > it will be shrink-wrapped. > > In the short term we could expand our beta testing universe with a > run-time. So I'm trying to figure out the best way to do this. > > The problem AFAIK with the run-times is their size. Right now we can > email the mde to a beta tester and it's about 3-4MB. If I put up a > run-time on my web site, beta testers are not likely to know how to do > an FTP program. > > I suppose I could make a password protected folder on my web site, and > get my web site developer to make the run-time downloadable or > installable from the site. I don't know how to do this. Maybe she > does. > > I've got A97 developer's edition, Wise Installer, and the Sagekey script > for A97. But I don't think that the app can be converted back to A97. > In any event, the total A97/Wise/Sagekey package runs to about 70MB > IIRC. > > I could buy A2002 or A2003 if they've got a better deployment capability > than they've had in the past. > > What are your recommendations, suggestions, thoughts? > > Thanks in advance, > > Rocky Smolin > Beach Access Software > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > From HollisVJ at pgdp.usec.com Thu Mar 4 14:25:23 2004 From: HollisVJ at pgdp.usec.com (Hollis,Virginia) Date: Thu, 04 Mar 2004 14:25:23 -0600 Subject: [AccessD] Add All to List Message-ID: <618EB4D6DDCDD3119B0A00508B6FD37A0CB0D236@cntexchange.pgdp.usec.com> That took care of the type error. I still can't seem to get it to show all records. When I select ALL, it goes to a new record. Va. -----Original Message----- From: Charlotte Foust [mailto:cfoust at infostatsystems.com] Sent: Thursday, March 04, 2004 11:02 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] Add All to List You have to match datatypes in the union. If NCSAID is numeric, then you have to use a number, like -1 for instance, instead of the "*". If NCSANo is numeric, you need to use something like CStr(tbl_NCSA.NCSANo) in order to accommodate the "All" value. Charlotte Foust -----Original Message----- From: Hollis,Virginia [mailto:HollisVJ at pgdp.usec.com] Sent: Thursday, March 04, 2004 5:29 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: [AccessD] Add All to List Still struggling... On the recordsource for the combo box I put: SELECT tbl_NCSA.NCSAID, tbl_NCSA.NCSANo FROM tbl_NCSA; UNION SELECT "*", "All" FROM tbl_NCSA; This gets me the word ALL in the list. Then on the AfterUpdate of cboNCSANo, I put (this gives me a type mismatch when I select All): If Me![cboNCSANo] = "All" Then DoCmd.ShowAllRecords Else DoCmd.ApplyFilter , "[NCSAID] = " & str(Me![cboNCSANo]) End If Va. -----Original Message----- From: William Hindman [mailto:wdhindman at bellsouth.net] Sent: Wednesday, March 03, 2004 4:07 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Add All to List ...the easiest way is to "if" the combo's after update event :) After Update Event cboCustomer If Me![cboCustomer] = "" Then DoCmd ShowAllRecords Else DoCmd ApplyFilter , "[State] = Forms![cboCustomer]![cboCustomer]" End If William Hindman "My idea of an agreeable person is a person who agrees with me." Disraeli ----- Original Message ----- From: "Hollis,Virginia" To: "'Access Developers discussion and problem solving'" Sent: Wednesday, March 03, 2004 4:29 PM Subject: RE: [AccessD] Add All to List > I don't know what I am doing wrong.... The all shows at the top of the list, > but All the records do not show on the subform. The combobox is still > showing the first record when it opens and the subform is filtered for that > record. > > What makes the All part of "ALL" in the combo box work? > > Virginia > > -----Original Message----- > From: William Hindman [mailto:wdhindman at bellsouth.net] > Sent: Wednesday, March 03, 2004 8:09 AM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: Re: [AccessD] Add All to List > > > Virginia > > ...use a UNION SELECT in the combo record source to add an ALL. > > ...example: > > SELECT DISTINCTROW Customers.Company, Customers.[Customer Number] FROM > Customers UNION SELECT "","" FROM Customers ORDER BY Customers.Company; > > William Hindman "My idea of an agreeable person is a person who agrees with > me." Disraeli > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Hollis,Virginia" > To: > Sent: Wednesday, March 03, 2004 8:45 AM > Subject: [AccessD] Add All to List > > > > How do you add All to List? This form contains 2 combo boxes on a > > main > form. > > Selecting data shows data on a subform for the related combo box choices. > > > > I need to either have an All in the combo boxes or when the form > > opens, I > > would like them to be blank. > > > > I tried this code in the On Open of the main form, but it still > > opens to > > the first record with entries in both combo boxes. > > > > With Me > > .cboNCSANo = "" > > .cboProcedure = "" > > End With > > > > Virginia > > -- > > _______________________________________________ > > AccessD mailing list > > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com Thu Mar 4 14:35:12 2004 From: jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com (John W. Colby) Date: Thu, 4 Mar 2004 15:35:12 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] RE: Age of the List was (Drew - Age of the Archives?) In-Reply-To: Message-ID: We set up DatabaseAdvisors as an entity before the actual list was established. John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of John Bartow Sent: Thursday, March 04, 2004 3:06 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] RE: Age of the List was (Drew - Age of the Archives?) I remember when you all set up OT (I didn't join it then as I was actually "too" too busy). I don't remember any discussion about setting up DatabaseAdvisors, Inc as an entity though. John -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of William Hindman Sent: Thursday, March 04, 2004 1:28 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] RE: Age of the List was (Drew - Age of the Archives?) "DatabaseAdvisors, Inc has only been around since 2001" Bryan ...not so Bryan ...without going back into my own archives I know for a fact that dba-OT was formed immediately after the 2000 elections as a direct result of heavy OT traffic on AccessD :) William Hindman "My idea of an agreeable person is a person who agrees with me." Disraeli ----- Original Message ----- From: "Bryan Carbonnell" To: Sent: Thursday, March 04, 2004 12:33 PM Subject: [AccessD] RE: Age of the List was (Drew - Age of the Archives?) > Well, actually AccessD, as a list has been around for more than 7 years, > IIRC. It was originally hosted by David Scott at the MT Group. > > DatabaseAdvisors, Inc has only been around since 2001 > > I just had a quick look at the Internet archive and have come up with > a reference from 1997 > (http://web.archive.org/web/19971221192627/http://mtgroup.com/) but > I'm sure it's been around for longer than that. > > Bryan Carbonnell > bryan_carbonnell at cbc.ca > > >>> john at winhaven.net 04-Mar-04 11:51:06 AM >>> > Not according to our website! > > I had thought I joined in May of 2000 but when I saw that I figured it > must > have been May of 2001. I could be wrong. The only way to verify it woul > dbe > backup tapes and BLA! -its bad enough when I have to use them :o) > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of William > Hindman > Sent: Thursday, March 04, 2004 10:28 AM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: Re: [AccessD] Drew - Age of the Archives? > > > ...AccessD was alive and well long before 2001 :) > > William Hindman "My idea of an agreeable person is a person who agrees > with > me." Disraeli > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "John Bartow" > To: "Access Developers discussion and problem solving" > > Sent: Thursday, March 04, 2004 10:51 AM > Subject: RE: [AccessD] Drew - Age of the Archives? > > > > I don't blame you, after the run of luck you've had! > > > > I'm leery every time I do a presentation. I don't mind speaking in > front > of > > people but it seems something always goes wrong - no matter how > prepared I > > am. I've done presentations for conferences where the coordinator > guaranteed > > the equipment was what I asked for and when I show up they have > projectors > > that don't handle 1024x768 which is the only res. at which my > laptop's > video > > looks good (640 cuts the text lines up). I had another conference > where I > > was setup 30 minutes early, everything worked fine, unplug my laptop > and > the > > first presenter plugs his in, he goes on and finishes, I plug my > laptop > into > > the projector and POOF my laptop's screen goes out. It took about 20 > minutes > > to get it all rearranged so that my partner could run the > presentation > from > > the projected image rather than the laptop, while I talked about it. > (we > > were showing a new app. live of course.) Luckily there was a third > presenter > > that went on in our time slot and 500 people weren't just sitting > there > > getting irritated. Took a month to get the screen replaced too :o( > > > > John > > > > BTW AccessD as we know it was formed in 2001 so I guess I have it > narrowed > > down enough now :o) > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of > > DWUTKA at marlow.com > > Sent: Wednesday, March 03, 2004 11:47 AM > > To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com > > Subject: RE: [AccessD] Drew - Age of the Archives? > > > > > > I actually gave a presentation on the 'indexing' capabilities I built > for > > the archives last month. After my track record with major > changes/updates > > to the archives, I was just a little leary to give that > presentation....go > > figure! > > > > Drew > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of John > Bartow > > Sent: Wednesday, March 03, 2004 11:24 AM > > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > > Subject: RE: [AccessD] Drew - Age of the Archives? > > > > > > Drew, > > Yes, it is an interesting timeline, I thought of a few of those > things > too! > > :o) > > > > Thanks, > > John > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of > > DWUTKA at marlow.com > > Sent: Wednesday, March 03, 2004 10:47 AM > > To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com > > Subject: RE: [AccessD] Drew - Age of the Archives? > > > > > > Hmmmm, let's work backwards. I know that the archives stopping > archiving > > this past August/September (2003), because that's when I separated > from > > Tammy. I know the archives started using the 'Memo Field Indexing' > in > April > > of 2003, because that is when my apartment caught fire. I know I > moved > the > > archives from Marlow to my home in early January of 2003, because my > DSL > > company went bankrupt and pulled the plug on their network then. > > > > I have no clue when I actually 'started' the archives, other then a > wild > > guess at about 6 months before I moved it home. So I would say July > or > > August of 2002. > > > > Drew (Interesting timeline, eh?) > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of John > Bartow > > Sent: Tuesday, March 02, 2004 9:00 PM > > To: _DBA-Access > > Subject: [AccessD] Drew - Age of the Archives? > > > > > > Drew, > > Someone recently asked me how long I have been on this list. The > only > point > > of reference I could think of was about two years before I sent all > my > > archives to Drew! > > > > So, Do you know when you put the archives together on your site? > > > > John "My memory is 40 years ahead of it time (I have a like I'm over > 80)" > > Bartow > > > > > > -- > > _______________________________________________ > > AccessD mailing list > > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > -- > > _______________________________________________ > > AccessD mailing list > > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > > > > > -- > > _______________________________________________ > > AccessD mailing list > > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > -- > > _______________________________________________ > > AccessD mailing list > > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > > > > > -- > > _______________________________________________ > > AccessD mailing list > > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From john at winhaven.net Thu Mar 4 15:12:55 2004 From: john at winhaven.net (John Bartow) Date: Thu, 4 Mar 2004 15:12:55 -0600 Subject: [AccessD] RE: Age of the List was (Drew - Age of the Archives?) In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Ah, JC - some of my emails must get through... -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of John W. Colby Sent: Thursday, March 04, 2004 2:35 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] RE: Age of the List was (Drew - Age of the Archives?) We set up DatabaseAdvisors as an entity before the actual list was established. John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of John Bartow Sent: Thursday, March 04, 2004 3:06 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] RE: Age of the List was (Drew - Age of the Archives?) I remember when you all set up OT (I didn't join it then as I was actually "too" too busy). I don't remember any discussion about setting up DatabaseAdvisors, Inc as an entity though. John -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of William Hindman Sent: Thursday, March 04, 2004 1:28 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] RE: Age of the List was (Drew - Age of the Archives?) "DatabaseAdvisors, Inc has only been around since 2001" Bryan ...not so Bryan ...without going back into my own archives I know for a fact that dba-OT was formed immediately after the 2000 elections as a direct result of heavy OT traffic on AccessD :) William Hindman "My idea of an agreeable person is a person who agrees with me." Disraeli ----- Original Message ----- From: "Bryan Carbonnell" To: Sent: Thursday, March 04, 2004 12:33 PM Subject: [AccessD] RE: Age of the List was (Drew - Age of the Archives?) > Well, actually AccessD, as a list has been around for more than 7 years, > IIRC. It was originally hosted by David Scott at the MT Group. > > DatabaseAdvisors, Inc has only been around since 2001 > > I just had a quick look at the Internet archive and have come up with > a reference from 1997 > (http://web.archive.org/web/19971221192627/http://mtgroup.com/) but > I'm sure it's been around for longer than that. > > Bryan Carbonnell > bryan_carbonnell at cbc.ca > > >>> john at winhaven.net 04-Mar-04 11:51:06 AM >>> > Not according to our website! > > I had thought I joined in May of 2000 but when I saw that I figured it > must > have been May of 2001. I could be wrong. The only way to verify it woul > dbe > backup tapes and BLA! -its bad enough when I have to use them :o) > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of William > Hindman > Sent: Thursday, March 04, 2004 10:28 AM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: Re: [AccessD] Drew - Age of the Archives? > > > ...AccessD was alive and well long before 2001 :) > > William Hindman "My idea of an agreeable person is a person who agrees > with > me." Disraeli > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "John Bartow" > To: "Access Developers discussion and problem solving" > > Sent: Thursday, March 04, 2004 10:51 AM > Subject: RE: [AccessD] Drew - Age of the Archives? > > > > I don't blame you, after the run of luck you've had! > > > > I'm leery every time I do a presentation. I don't mind speaking in > front > of > > people but it seems something always goes wrong - no matter how > prepared I > > am. I've done presentations for conferences where the coordinator > guaranteed > > the equipment was what I asked for and when I show up they have > projectors > > that don't handle 1024x768 which is the only res. at which my > laptop's > video > > looks good (640 cuts the text lines up). I had another conference > where I > > was setup 30 minutes early, everything worked fine, unplug my laptop > and > the > > first presenter plugs his in, he goes on and finishes, I plug my > laptop > into > > the projector and POOF my laptop's screen goes out. It took about 20 > minutes > > to get it all rearranged so that my partner could run the > presentation > from > > the projected image rather than the laptop, while I talked about it. > (we > > were showing a new app. live of course.) Luckily there was a third > presenter > > that went on in our time slot and 500 people weren't just sitting > there > > getting irritated. Took a month to get the screen replaced too :o( > > > > John > > > > BTW AccessD as we know it was formed in 2001 so I guess I have it > narrowed > > down enough now :o) > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of > > DWUTKA at marlow.com > > Sent: Wednesday, March 03, 2004 11:47 AM > > To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com > > Subject: RE: [AccessD] Drew - Age of the Archives? > > > > > > I actually gave a presentation on the 'indexing' capabilities I built > for > > the archives last month. After my track record with major > changes/updates > > to the archives, I was just a little leary to give that > presentation....go > > figure! > > > > Drew > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of John > Bartow > > Sent: Wednesday, March 03, 2004 11:24 AM > > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > > Subject: RE: [AccessD] Drew - Age of the Archives? > > > > > > Drew, > > Yes, it is an interesting timeline, I thought of a few of those > things > too! > > :o) > > > > Thanks, > > John > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of > > DWUTKA at marlow.com > > Sent: Wednesday, March 03, 2004 10:47 AM > > To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com > > Subject: RE: [AccessD] Drew - Age of the Archives? > > > > > > Hmmmm, let's work backwards. I know that the archives stopping > archiving > > this past August/September (2003), because that's when I separated > from > > Tammy. I know the archives started using the 'Memo Field Indexing' > in > April > > of 2003, because that is when my apartment caught fire. I know I > moved > the > > archives from Marlow to my home in early January of 2003, because my > DSL > > company went bankrupt and pulled the plug on their network then. > > > > I have no clue when I actually 'started' the archives, other then a > wild > > guess at about 6 months before I moved it home. So I would say July > or > > August of 2002. > > > > Drew (Interesting timeline, eh?) > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of John > Bartow > > Sent: Tuesday, March 02, 2004 9:00 PM > > To: _DBA-Access > > Subject: [AccessD] Drew - Age of the Archives? > > > > > > Drew, > > Someone recently asked me how long I have been on this list. The > only > point > > of reference I could think of was about two years before I sent all > my > > archives to Drew! > > > > So, Do you know when you put the archives together on your site? > > > > John "My memory is 40 years ahead of it time (I have a like I'm over > 80)" > > Bartow > > > > > > -- > > _______________________________________________ > > AccessD mailing list > > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > -- > > _______________________________________________ > > AccessD mailing list > > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > > > > > -- > > _______________________________________________ > > AccessD mailing list > > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > -- > > _______________________________________________ > > AccessD mailing list > > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > > > > > -- > > _______________________________________________ > > AccessD mailing list > > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From Oleg_123 at xuppa.com Thu Mar 4 15:16:41 2004 From: Oleg_123 at xuppa.com (Oleg_123 at xuppa.com) Date: Thu, 4 Mar 2004 16:16:41 -0500 (EST) Subject: [AccessD] IIF syntaxis In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <29275.63.251.87.214.1078435001.squirrel@heck.bay9.com> hey group What would be the correct syntasis on IIF part in the query below -- I'd like to for record NewDateOpened to equal value from the column [MS Date Opened] if DEPT is in ("MSS","MID","SW","OW"), and to equal [MID_Date_Opened] in other cases. (IIF( [Ron Data mid].DEPT in ("MSS","MID","SW","OW") ,[Ron Data mid].[MS Date Opened]) ELSE [MID_Date_Opened] AS NewDateOpened SELECT TOP 5 [Ron Data mid].DEPT, [Ron Data mid].MID_Date_Opened, [Ron Data mid].[MS Date Opened], MFRD.Disposition, [Ron Data mid].ID (IIF( [Ron Data mid].DEPT in ("MSS","MID","SW","OW") ,[Ron Data mid].[MS Date Opened]) ELSE [MID_Date_Opened] AS NewDateOpened FROM [Ron Data mid] INNER JOIN MFRD ON [Ron Data mid].ID = MFRD.ID; ----------------------------------------- Get Breaking News from CNN, ABC, NBC, CBS Now. http://www.xuppa.com/news/?link=webmail From rl_stewart at highstream.net Thu Mar 4 15:33:09 2004 From: rl_stewart at highstream.net (Robert L. Stewart) Date: Thu, 04 Mar 2004 15:33:09 -0600 Subject: [AccessD] Re: Add All to List In-Reply-To: <200403042113.i24LDdM21398@databaseadvisors.com> Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20040304153108.02ad21f0@pop3.highstream.net> Virginia, What are you trying to do? If it is to display all records, then you will have to remove the filtering mechanism when "All" is selected. This is generally used for reporting where you could for example select all to get all categories of labor expended on a project. Not as a filtering mechanism for a form. Robert At 03:13 PM 3/4/2004 -0600, you wrote: >Date: Thu, 04 Mar 2004 14:25:23 -0600 >From: "Hollis,Virginia" >Subject: RE: [AccessD] Add All to List >To: "'Access Developers discussion and problem solving'" > >Message-ID: > <618EB4D6DDCDD3119B0A00508B6FD37A0CB0D236 at cntexchange.pgdp.usec.com> >Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 > >That took care of the type error. > >I still can't seem to get it to show all records. When I select ALL, it goes >to a new record. > >Va. From martyconnelly at shaw.ca Thu Mar 4 16:04:31 2004 From: martyconnelly at shaw.ca (MartyConnelly) Date: Thu, 04 Mar 2004 14:04:31 -0800 Subject: [AccessD] Frameworks, what are they? References: Message-ID: <4047A7EF.1090308@shaw.ca> For those above Mere Mortals (current Canadian Political joke) Another view of framework definitions What Is the Zachman Framework for Enterprise Architecture? essentially a 6 by 6 matrix enterprise development checklist http://www.ftponline.com/ea/magazine/spring/online/druby/ or http://www.enterprise-architect.net John W. Colby wrote: >That would be it. Mere mortals. > >John W. Colby >www.ColbyConsulting.com > >-----Original Message----- >From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com >[mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Jim Dettman >Sent: Thursday, March 04, 2004 12:00 PM >To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving >Subject: RE: [AccessD] Frameworks, what are they? > > >John, > ><and bought something called Framework for normal people or something like >that. >> > > You might be thinking me "Mere Mortals" > ><don't seem to exist for Access. I have thought about trying to develop and >sell one but reality always intervenes.>> > > Yes I would agree and I've been thinking of why there are not any for >Access. It's certainly been around long enough. > >I've thought of a couple things: > >1. Most Access apps are "developed" by non-professionals, so they have a >tendency to use what's in front of them. >2. Because of #1, most of the apps developed are fairly simple. >3. For a professional developer, Access already provides significant tools >and features to use for development (i.e. Main/Subforms). > ><< I have thought about trying to develop and >sell one but reality always intervenes.>> > > I hear you there. During the A2 release, I really started digging into >the MDB structure with the intent of offering database utilities. Took a >lot of time and I had to pay the bills. So I gave up on it. I figured that >by the time I did it, the JET team would either come out with utilities or >take care of the corruption issue. > > Now I could kick myself in the butt for not sticking with it. > >Jim >(315) 699-3443 >jimdettman at earthlink.net > >-----Original Message----- >From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com >[mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of John W. Colby >Sent: Thursday, March 04, 2004 10:26 AM >To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving >Subject: RE: [AccessD] Frameworks, what are they? > > >Back when I was supervising that VP project I mentioned at lunch, we found >and bought something called Framework for normal people or something like >that. Basically starting with a purchased framework is good... they just >don't seem to exist for Access. I have thought about trying to develop and >sell one but reality always intervenes. > >John W. Colby >www.ColbyConsulting.com > >-----Original Message----- >From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com >[mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Jim Dettman >Sent: Thursday, March 04, 2004 9:58 AM >To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving >Subject: RE: [AccessD] Frameworks, what are they? > > >John, > > I hate to mention VFP on the Access list, but in terms of Frameworks it >has many and the features that they offer are listed here: > >http://fox.wikis.com/wc.dll?Wiki~FrameworkFeatureChart~VFP > > Items compared are things like Developer Tools, End User Features, etc. >Quite a bit of info there on frameworks in general. > > If you wanted to look at one more specifically, I use VMP, which has a >downloadable help file that you can look at. You can find that here: > >http://www.visionds.com/vmpsite/ > > Look under VMP 2004, Download VMPHELP.CHM > >Jim Dettman >President, >Online Computer Services of WNY, Inc. >(315) 699-3443 >jimdettman at earthlink.net > >-----Original Message----- >From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com >[mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of John W. Colby >Sent: Wednesday, March 03, 2004 8:44 PM >To: AccessD >Subject: [AccessD] Frameworks, what are they? > > >Robert, > >The only example I have of a running framework is my own. Unfortunately it >is so complex at this point it would be undecipherable to anyone but me I'm >afraid. You have heard me discuss the various functionalities I have placed >into my framework. In order to understand my stuff you would have to wade >through all that stuff I have mentioned. I am certainly willing to post it >somewhere with an application that uses it so that you can see how I do >things but I'm truly uncertain whether a discussion could address my >framework without getting pretty deep pretty fast. > >A framework is really nothing more than a skeleton upon which you hang an >application. As you need more functionality, if it is generic and useful to >the next app you add it to the framework. In this day and age, you really >need to be thinking classes however since they allow you to set up >containers for related functionality. > >I am going to cc the list however. We have many developers who have >developed their own framework. I have never seen anyone else's so I can't >vouch for how complex they are now how conceptually similar to what I do, >but if we address the list, perhaps we can get a discussion going on this >stuff. > >John W. Colby >www.ColbyConsulting.com > >-----Original Message----- >From: Robert Gracie [mailto:Robert at servicexp.com] >Sent: Wednesday, March 03, 2004 8:18 PM >To: jcolby at colbyconsulting.com >Subject: I have a question > > >John, > I have really appreciated the help over the last few months in regards to >"DEEP" programming, your examples have been very helpful. I'm intrigued with >"framework" idea however I have no idea where to get started. My question >is; do you have any examples of a running "framework", or any books that >explain how to set this sort of thing up? > >Thanks Again!! >Robert Gracie > > >-- >_______________________________________________ >AccessD mailing list >AccessD at databaseadvisors.com >http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd >Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > >-- >_______________________________________________ >AccessD mailing list >AccessD at databaseadvisors.com >http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd >Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > >-- >_______________________________________________ >AccessD mailing list >AccessD at databaseadvisors.com >http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd >Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > >-- >_______________________________________________ >AccessD mailing list >AccessD at databaseadvisors.com >http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd >Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > > -- Marty Connelly Victoria, B.C. Canada From d.dick at uws.edu.au Thu Mar 4 16:22:43 2004 From: d.dick at uws.edu.au (Darren DICK) Date: Fri, 5 Mar 2004 09:22:43 +1100 Subject: [AccessD] Form In Background References: <618EB4D6DDCDD3119B0A00508B6FD37A0CB0D226@cntexchange.pgdp.usec.com> <002d01c401a7$45398420$02d15dd4@ali> Message-ID: <006e01c40237$36e683b0$48619a89@DDICK> Ayisha Try something like DoCmd.OpenForm "frmMyLinkedForm " ,acNormal ,,,,acHidden if you open the form from a button or try Me.Visible = false in the OnLoad event of the form in question If you do either of these make sure you have a way to make the form visible again Eg on some other form have a button that runs something like Forms!frmMyLinkedForm.visible = true HTH Darren ----- Original Message ----- From: "Ayisha" To: "Access Developers discussion and problem solving" Sent: Thursday, March 04, 2004 4:03 PM Subject: [AccessD] Form In Background > Is there any way that i can hide a linked form in background???? > > Ayisha > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From liz at symphonyinfo.com Thu Mar 4 17:06:31 2004 From: liz at symphonyinfo.com (Liz Doering) Date: Thu, 4 Mar 2004 17:06:31 -0600 Subject: [AccessD] Database Un-splitter: New 'Feature' from Microsoft In-Reply-To: <29275.63.251.87.214.1078435001.squirrel@heck.bay9.com> Message-ID: I ran smack up against a new 'feature' of Access 2003 today. I have a client who, for reasons of his own, keeps his BE in Access 97. With the purchase of new machines, some of his users have gotten to Access 2003, while others are still using 97. I made a few changes on site last week, using a 2003 machine for development and blithely saving my changes to a 97 version when I was done. Without saying a word, 2003 made a copy of all the BE tables in the new 97 FE. So now my 97 user is working on a copy, disconnected from his server. Of course it took him 3 days' worth of work to notice. I'll be spending Monday cleaning up this fiasco. And several more days, wondering why somebody didn't put a little warning on this process! The one good point: he's gotten over his need to keep 97. Liz Doering Symphony Information Services liz at symphonyinfo.com www.symphonyinfo.com 763-391-7400 From ssharkins at bellsouth.net Thu Mar 4 17:20:36 2004 From: ssharkins at bellsouth.net (Susan Harkins) Date: Thu, 4 Mar 2004 18:20:36 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Database Un-splitter: New 'Feature' from Microsoft In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <20040304232034.EZLN1860.imf24aec.mail.bellsouth.net@SUSANONE> 2003 does let you work with a "local" copy of a linked table -- are you sure someone didn't just choose the wrong option? Susan H. I ran smack up against a new 'feature' of Access 2003 today. I have a client who, for reasons of his own, keeps his BE in Access 97. With the purchase of new machines, some of his users have gotten to Access 2003, while others are still using 97. I made a few changes on site last week, using a 2003 machine for development and blithely saving my changes to a 97 version when I was done. Without saying a word, 2003 made a copy of all the BE tables in the new 97 FE. So now my 97 user is working on a copy, disconnected from his server. Of course it took him 3 days' worth of work to notice. I'll be spending Monday cleaning up this fiasco. And several more days, wondering why somebody didn't put a little warning on this process! The one good point: he's gotten over his need to keep 97. Liz Doering Symphony Information Services liz at symphonyinfo.com www.symphonyinfo.com 763-391-7400 -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From stuart at lexacorp.com.pg Thu Mar 4 17:27:37 2004 From: stuart at lexacorp.com.pg (Stuart McLachlan) Date: Fri, 05 Mar 2004 09:27:37 +1000 Subject: [AccessD] Add All to List In-Reply-To: <618EB4D6DDCDD3119B0A00508B6FD37A0CB0D22C@cntexchange.pgdp.usec.com> Message-ID: <40484809.31981.52C24C6@localhost> On 4 Mar 2004 at 7:28, Hollis,Virginia wrote: > Still struggling... > > On the recordsource for the combo box I put: > SELECT tbl_NCSA.NCSAID, tbl_NCSA.NCSANo FROM tbl_NCSA; UNION SELECT "*", > "All" FROM tbl_NCSA; > This gets me the word ALL in the list. > > Then on the AfterUpdate of cboNCSANo, I put (this gives me a type mismatch > when I select All): > If Me![cboNCSANo] = "All" Then > DoCmd.ShowAllRecords > Else > DoCmd.ApplyFilter , "[NCSAID] = " & str(Me![cboNCSANo]) > End If > Looks like NCSAID is numeric. In which case you can't use a character "*" in the second part of the Union. Use something like -1 instead. -- Lexacorp Ltd http://www.lexacorp.com.pg Information Technology Consultancy, Software Development,System Support. From clh at christopherhawkins.com Thu Mar 4 18:31:22 2004 From: clh at christopherhawkins.com (Christopher Hawkins) Date: Thu, 4 Mar 2004 17:31:22 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] RE: Age of the List was (Drew - Age of the Archives?) Message-ID: <292560-2200435503122230@christopherhawkins.com> Hmmm. You guys HAD to go and pose the questions, didn't you? ;) 1999? 2000? I'm not sure, because I've unsubscribed and re-subscribed two or three times. -Christopher- ---- Original Message ---- From: jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com, Subject: RE: [AccessD] RE: Age of the List was (Drew - Age of the Archives?) Date: Thu, 4 Mar 2004 13:07:28 -0500 >I joined the list in July 1997. At that time it was hosted by MT >group / >David Scott. DatabaseAdvisors was of course formed to manage >AccessD when >David decided he'd had enough and wanted to shut the group down. > >John W. Colby >www.ColbyConsulting.com > >-----Original Message----- >From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com >[mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Bryan >Carbonnell >Sent: Thursday, March 04, 2004 12:33 PM >To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com >Subject: [AccessD] RE: Age of the List was (Drew - Age of the >Archives?) > > >Well, actually AccessD, as a list has been around for more than 7 >years, >IIRC. It was originally hosted by David Scott at the MT Group. > >DatabaseAdvisors, Inc has only been around since 2001 > >I just had a quick look at the Internet archive and have come up >with >a reference from 1997 >(http://web.archive.org/web/19971221192627/http://mtgroup.com/) but >I'm sure it's been around for longer than that. > >Bryan Carbonnell >bryan_carbonnell at cbc.ca > >>>> john at winhaven.net 04-Mar-04 11:51:06 AM >>> >Not according to our website! > >I had thought I joined in May of 2000 but when I saw that I figured >it >must >have been May of 2001. I could be wrong. The only way to verify it >woul >dbe >backup tapes and BLA! -its bad enough when I have to use them :o) > >-----Original Message----- >From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com >[mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of William >Hindman >Sent: Thursday, March 04, 2004 10:28 AM >To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving >Subject: Re: [AccessD] Drew - Age of the Archives? > > >...AccessD was alive and well long before 2001 :) > >William Hindman "My idea of an agreeable person is a person who >agrees >with >me." Disraeli > >----- Original Message ----- >From: "John Bartow" >To: "Access Developers discussion and problem solving" > >Sent: Thursday, March 04, 2004 10:51 AM >Subject: RE: [AccessD] Drew - Age of the Archives? > > >> I don't blame you, after the run of luck you've had! >> >> I'm leery every time I do a presentation. I don't mind speaking in >front >of >> people but it seems something always goes wrong - no matter how >prepared I >> am. I've done presentations for conferences where the coordinator >guaranteed >> the equipment was what I asked for and when I show up they have >projectors >> that don't handle 1024x768 which is the only res. at which my >laptop's >video >> looks good (640 cuts the text lines up). I had another conference >where I >> was setup 30 minutes early, everything worked fine, unplug my >laptop >and >the >> first presenter plugs his in, he goes on and finishes, I plug my >laptop >into >> the projector and POOF my laptop's screen goes out. It took about >20 >minutes >> to get it all rearranged so that my partner could run the >presentation >from >> the projected image rather than the laptop, while I talked about >it. >(we >> were showing a new app. live of course.) Luckily there was a third >presenter >> that went on in our time slot and 500 people weren't just sitting >there >> getting irritated. Took a month to get the screen replaced too :o( >> >> John >> >> BTW AccessD as we know it was formed in 2001 so I guess I have it >narrowed >> down enough now :o) >> >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com >> [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of >> DWUTKA at marlow.com >> Sent: Wednesday, March 03, 2004 11:47 AM >> To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com >> Subject: RE: [AccessD] Drew - Age of the Archives? >> >> >> I actually gave a presentation on the 'indexing' capabilities I >built >for >> the archives last month. After my track record with major >changes/updates >> to the archives, I was just a little leary to give that >presentation....go >> figure! >> >> Drew >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com >> [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of John >Bartow >> Sent: Wednesday, March 03, 2004 11:24 AM >> To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving >> Subject: RE: [AccessD] Drew - Age of the Archives? >> >> >> Drew, >> Yes, it is an interesting timeline, I thought of a few of those >things >too! >> :o) >> >> Thanks, >> John >> >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com >> [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of >> DWUTKA at marlow.com >> Sent: Wednesday, March 03, 2004 10:47 AM >> To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com >> Subject: RE: [AccessD] Drew - Age of the Archives? >> >> >> Hmmmm, let's work backwards. I know that the archives stopping >archiving >> this past August/September (2003), because that's when I separated >from >> Tammy. I know the archives started using the 'Memo Field Indexing' >in >April >> of 2003, because that is when my apartment caught fire. I know I >moved >the >> archives from Marlow to my home in early January of 2003, because >my >DSL >> company went bankrupt and pulled the plug on their network then. >> >> I have no clue when I actually 'started' the archives, other then a >wild >> guess at about 6 months before I moved it home. So I would say >July >or >> August of 2002. >> >> Drew (Interesting timeline, eh?) >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com >> [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of John >Bartow >> Sent: Tuesday, March 02, 2004 9:00 PM >> To: _DBA-Access >> Subject: [AccessD] Drew - Age of the Archives? >> >> >> Drew, >> Someone recently asked me how long I have been on this list. The >only >point >> of reference I could think of was about two years before I sent all >my >> archives to Drew! >> >> So, Do you know when you put the archives together on your site? >> >> John "My memory is 40 years ahead of it time (I have a like I'm >over >80)" >> Bartow >> >> >> -- >> _______________________________________________ >> AccessD mailing list >> AccessD at databaseadvisors.com >> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd >> Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com >> -- >> _______________________________________________ >> AccessD mailing list >> AccessD at databaseadvisors.com >> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd >> Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com >> >> >> >> -- >> _______________________________________________ >> AccessD mailing list >> AccessD at databaseadvisors.com >> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd >> Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com >> -- >> _______________________________________________ >> AccessD mailing list >> AccessD at databaseadvisors.com >> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd >> Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com >> >> >> >> -- >> _______________________________________________ >> AccessD mailing list >> AccessD at databaseadvisors.com >> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd >> Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > >-- >_______________________________________________ >AccessD mailing list >AccessD at databaseadvisors.com >http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd >Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > >-- >_______________________________________________ >AccessD mailing list >AccessD at databaseadvisors.com >http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd >Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com >-- >_______________________________________________ >AccessD mailing list >AccessD at databaseadvisors.com >http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd >Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > >-- >_______________________________________________ >AccessD mailing list >AccessD at databaseadvisors.com >http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd >Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > From rfv at entelix.com Thu Mar 4 18:42:31 2004 From: rfv at entelix.com (rfv at entelix.com) Date: Thu, 4 Mar 2004 18:42:31 -0600 Subject: [AccessD] Pocket PC Message-ID: <200403050043.i250hhM10421@databaseadvisors.com> Hi, I have a MS Access XP app which i need to synchronize with a Pocket PC. I have no idea how i can establish that. Is there some software out there to design simple forms on a Pocket PC y synchroinze it with Access? Thanks to everybody. Rudolf F. Vanek From jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com Thu Mar 4 18:48:43 2004 From: jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com (John W. Colby) Date: Thu, 4 Mar 2004 19:48:43 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] OT - Hit counter for web pages Message-ID: Does anyone have a hit counter that I can just cut and paste code into my web page? Shows my ignorance I know but I need something that will do that for me. I need a hit counter for each page, visible on the page itself. John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com From bruce_bruen at mlc.com.au Thu Mar 4 19:10:42 2004 From: bruce_bruen at mlc.com.au (bruce_bruen at mlc.com.au) Date: Fri, 5 Mar 2004 12:10:42 +1100 Subject: [AccessD] OT - Hit counter for web pages Message-ID: Google returns over 2million. From wdhindman at bellsouth.net Thu Mar 4 19:50:28 2004 From: wdhindman at bellsouth.net (William Hindman) Date: Thu, 4 Mar 2004 20:50:28 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] OT - Hit counter for web pages References: Message-ID: <005001c40254$3c92d260$6101a8c0@dejpolsys> http://www.digits.com/create.html ...free pnp counter ...hth :) William Hindman "My idea of an agreeable person is a person who agrees with me." Disraeli ----- Original Message ----- From: "John W. Colby" To: "AccessD" ; "DBA - Tech" Sent: Thursday, March 04, 2004 7:48 PM Subject: [AccessD] OT - Hit counter for web pages > Does anyone have a hit counter that I can just cut and paste code into my > web page? Shows my ignorance I know but I need something that will do that > for me. I need a hit counter for each page, visible on the page itself. > > John W. Colby > www.ColbyConsulting.com > > > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > From accessd at shaw.ca Thu Mar 4 20:08:08 2004 From: accessd at shaw.ca (Jim Lawrence (AccessD)) Date: Thu, 04 Mar 2004 18:08:08 -0800 Subject: [AccessD] Deployment In-Reply-To: <006901c40137$fc4cb0d0$6801a8c0@HAL9002> Message-ID: Hi Rocky: IF you have a windows server handy for orchestrating the deployment you could try something as follows: 1. Create a sub-directory, off your ftproot directory, for each person or group of persons you wish to send the file to. 2. Create a user name and/or group for all who you wish to deliver the package to. Give appropriate access rights. (username/password) 3. In your IIS, create a virtual ftp account, using/pointing the name(s) to the ftproot dir. Make sure the virtual ftp name is the same as the actual directory name. (If the physical directory is name .\MyProduct the virtual ftp directory should be named MyProduct). Attach the new account(s) through the virtual ftp process as prompted. If you are only giving download rights, set the virtual directory to Read-Only. 4. Send each group or single user(s), with your requesting email a line as follow: ftp://MyFTPVirtualAccount:theTopSecretPassword at MySiteURLorAddress/MyProductF ileName.zip Pressing on the line above will automatically start a download process. HTH Jim -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Rocky Smolin - Beach Access Software Sent: Wednesday, March 03, 2004 7:56 AM To: AccessD at databaseadvisors.com Subject: [AccessD] Deployment Dear List: I've got an app I'm developing for the consumer market and we're in beta testing now. It's in A2K so all the betas have to have Access. Eventually it will have to be packaged as a run-time. But at that point it will be shrink-wrapped. In the short term we could expand our beta testing universe with a run-time. So I'm trying to figure out the best way to do this. The problem AFAIK with the run-times is their size. Right now we can email the mde to a beta tester and it's about 3-4MB. If I put up a run-time on my web site, beta testers are not likely to know how to do an FTP program. I suppose I could make a password protected folder on my web site, and get my web site developer to make the run-time downloadable or installable from the site. I don't know how to do this. Maybe she does. I've got A97 developer's edition, Wise Installer, and the Sagekey script for A97. But I don't think that the app can be converted back to A97. In any event, the total A97/Wise/Sagekey package runs to about 70MB IIRC. I could buy A2002 or A2003 if they've got a better deployment capability than they've had in the past. What are your recommendations, suggestions, thoughts? Thanks in advance, Rocky Smolin Beach Access Software -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From accessd at shaw.ca Thu Mar 4 20:08:14 2004 From: accessd at shaw.ca (Jim Lawrence (AccessD)) Date: Thu, 04 Mar 2004 18:08:14 -0800 Subject: [AccessD] Archives - no scroll bar In-Reply-To: <2F8793082E00D4119A1700B0D0216BF802227927@main2.marlow.com> Message-ID: Hi Drew: I will take close look...but never had any problems specifically; but things have been moved around and something may have been over-looked... Keep you posted. Jim -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of DWUTKA at marlow.com Sent: Wednesday, March 03, 2004 8:53 AM To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: RE: [AccessD] Archives - no scroll bar Okay, we need to ask Jim to look at his code, that is sending you to the Archives. He is probably using the open statement, and not implicitly including the scrollbars argument. I've seen that do funny things before, where one browser will work fine, and another goes goofy. (Even same type of browser...it just depends on the settings in the browser). Drew -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Bobby Heid Sent: Wednesday, March 03, 2004 8:15 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: [AccessD] Archives - no scroll bar Works correctly when I go directly there. Thanks, Bobby -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of DWUTKA at marlow.com Sent: Tuesday, March 02, 2004 6:20 PM To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: RE: [AccessD] Archives - no scroll bar Bobby, try going directly to the searchable archives. http://www.wolfwares.com/AccessD Do your search there. If you still have no scroll bars, let me know. If you do have them, then we need to let Jim Lawrence know. He may have used a script, that is opening my site in a new window, that doesn't have a flag set for scrollbars. Drew -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Bobby Heid Sent: Tuesday, March 02, 2004 1:48 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: [AccessD] Archives - no scroll bar Hi Bryan, I went to http://www.databaseadvisors.com and clicked on the archive link on the left side of the screen. I entered my search term at: http://www.databaseadvisors.com/archive/archive.htm I then entered my search term and clicked on the little "Go" button. This takes me to the AccessD Archives with a howling wolf in the upper left hand corner. Still no scrollbars this time either. Thanks, Bobby -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Bryan Carbonnell Sent: Tuesday, March 02, 2004 1:32 PM To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: RE: [AccessD] Archives - no scroll bar Not on databaseadvisors.com either. The archives there are not searchable yet. Bobby, where did you search from? Bryan Carbonnell bryan_carbonnell at cbc.ca >>> DWUTKA at marlow.com 02-Mar-04 1:22:23 PM >>> Not on the archives on my site. Just checked, and the scroll bars were there. Drew -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Bobby Heid Sent: Tuesday, March 02, 2004 7:52 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: [AccessD] Archives - no scroll bar Hey all, I was searching the archives for something and it had a lot of hits. But since there was no scroll bar, I had to press the tab key to move to each entry. I could not page down or use the mouse wheel either. This is in IE 6.0.28, windows 2k. Is this by design? Thanks, Bobby -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From accessd at shaw.ca Thu Mar 4 20:08:11 2004 From: accessd at shaw.ca (Jim Lawrence (AccessD)) Date: Thu, 04 Mar 2004 18:08:11 -0800 Subject: [AccessD] Drew - Age of the Archives? In-Reply-To: <2F8793082E00D4119A1700B0D0216BF802227923@main2.marlow.com> Message-ID: OT Hi Drew: You should write a book. What great material. Jim -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of DWUTKA at marlow.com Sent: Wednesday, March 03, 2004 8:47 AM To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: RE: [AccessD] Drew - Age of the Archives? Hmmmm, let's work backwards. I know that the archives stopping archiving this past August/September (2003), because that's when I separated from Tammy. I know the archives started using the 'Memo Field Indexing' in April of 2003, because that is when my apartment caught fire. I know I moved the archives from Marlow to my home in early January of 2003, because my DSL company went bankrupt and pulled the plug on their network then. I have no clue when I actually 'started' the archives, other then a wild guess at about 6 months before I moved it home. So I would say July or August of 2002. Drew (Interesting timeline, eh?) -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of John Bartow Sent: Tuesday, March 02, 2004 9:00 PM To: _DBA-Access Subject: [AccessD] Drew - Age of the Archives? Drew, Someone recently asked me how long I have been on this list. The only point of reference I could think of was about two years before I sent all my archives to Drew! So, Do you know when you put the archives together on your site? John "My memory is 40 years ahead of it time (I have a like I'm over 80)" Bartow -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From stuart at lexacorp.com.pg Thu Mar 4 20:59:54 2004 From: stuart at lexacorp.com.pg (Stuart McLachlan) Date: Fri, 05 Mar 2004 12:59:54 +1000 Subject: [AccessD] Pocket PC In-Reply-To: <200403050043.i250hhM10421@databaseadvisors.com> Message-ID: <404879CA.2047.5EE7B52@localhost> On 4 Mar 2004 at 18:42, rfv at entelix.com wrote: > Hi, > I have a MS Access XP app which i need to synchronize with a Pocket PC. > I have no idea how i can establish that. Is there some software out there to > design simple forms on a Pocket PC y synchroinze it with Access? > Thanks to everybody. > Rudolf F. Vanek > Take a look at: http://members.aol.com/Doanc/dbce.html or http://www.pocketpccity.com/software/pocketpc/Pocket-Database-Viewer- Plus-Access-2004-2-16-ce-pocketpc.html (watch from wrap) -- Lexacorp Ltd http://www.lexacorp.com.pg Information Technology Consultancy, Software Development,System Support. From shait at mindspring.com Thu Mar 4 21:36:31 2004 From: shait at mindspring.com (Stephen Hait) Date: Thu, 4 Mar 2004 22:36:31 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] OT - Hit counter for web pages In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <4047AF6F.24623.2685976@localhost> > Does anyone have a hit counter that I can just cut and paste code > into my web page? Shows my ignorance I know but I need something > that will do that for me. I need a hit counter for each page, > visible on the page itself. > > John W. Colby Just curious - why do you need a hit counter on every page of your web site? For your information? For the benefit of your visitors? Something else? Depending on your goals, there may be other alternatives. Regards, Stephen From jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com Thu Mar 4 21:46:26 2004 From: jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com (John W. Colby) Date: Thu, 4 Mar 2004 22:46:26 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] OT - Hit counter for web pages In-Reply-To: <4047AF6F.24623.2685976@localhost> Message-ID: So that I can see which pages are visited and how often. John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Stephen Hait Sent: Thursday, March 04, 2004 10:37 PM To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: Re: [AccessD] OT - Hit counter for web pages > Does anyone have a hit counter that I can just cut and paste code > into my web page? Shows my ignorance I know but I need something > that will do that for me. I need a hit counter for each page, > visible on the page itself. > > John W. Colby Just curious - why do you need a hit counter on every page of your web site? For your information? For the benefit of your visitors? Something else? Depending on your goals, there may be other alternatives. Regards, Stephen -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com Thu Mar 4 21:48:09 2004 From: jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com (John W. Colby) Date: Thu, 4 Mar 2004 22:48:09 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Building up a framework Message-ID: I am preparing a series of articles for Many-to-Many on building a framework. I have a very basic framework started with the clsFW class, dclsFrm and dclsTextBox, as well as Sysvars and a couple of service classes, ZIP and Unzip. I will throw in a few more like some encryption classes. AFAICT this much is functioning, I can load a form, the form scanner finds all text boxes and loads a class for each, the SysVars function etc. Many to Many only publishes every 2 months or so. A series of articles will take 6 months to a year to get out. There is going to be a LOT of code, and some pretty in-depth discussions of collections, Classes / setup, teardown and debugging, Withevents, service classes and all the other stuff that goes into my framework. The end result will be a fully functioning if still rather basic application framework. My question to the group is, should I hold a discussion of the framework, how it is built, why I do this stuff and so forth on this list, or take it off to another list for only those interested? John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com From markamatte at hotmail.com Thu Mar 4 20:51:41 2004 From: markamatte at hotmail.com (Mark A Matte) Date: Fri, 05 Mar 2004 02:51:41 +0000 Subject: [AccessD] Export to Mutiple Excel Sheets Message-ID: Hello All, I need to build an export/import function into an A97 db...I want to export/import 2 query results...1 to each sheet in a new excel workbook. Any suggestions/directions to head? Thanks, Mark A. Matte _________________________________________________________________ Fast. Reliable. Get MSN 9 Dial-up - 3 months for the price of 1! (Limited-time Offer) http://click.atdmt.com/AVE/go/onm00200361ave/direct/01/ From stuart at lexacorp.com.pg Thu Mar 4 22:06:52 2004 From: stuart at lexacorp.com.pg (Stuart McLachlan) Date: Fri, 05 Mar 2004 14:06:52 +1000 Subject: [AccessD] OT - Hit counter for web pages In-Reply-To: References: <4047AF6F.24623.2685976@localhost> Message-ID: <4048897C.12682.62BCD52@localhost> On 4 Mar 2004 at 22:46, John W. Colby wrote: > So that I can see which pages are visited and how often. > If you want to use it to analyse your site traffic, you need a bit more than a page hit-counter. Depending on how your site is hosted and what OS the server uses, you may find Webalizer a good option. http://www.mrunix.net/webalizer/ My ISP runs a *nix box and provides Webalizer logging. Take a look at http://www.lexacorp.com.pg/logs to see the sort of info it provides -- Lexacorp Ltd http://www.lexacorp.com.pg Information Technology Consultancy, Software Development,System Support. From Oleg_123 at xuppa.com Thu Mar 4 22:20:37 2004 From: Oleg_123 at xuppa.com (Oleg_123 at xuppa.com) Date: Thu, 4 Mar 2004 23:20:37 -0500 (EST) Subject: [AccessD] Export to Mutiple Excel Sheets In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <3049.24.187.36.171.1078460437.squirrel@heck.bay9.com> Mark, I thought that its possible to specify sheets in export macro; is it so ? > Hello All, > > I need to build an export/import function into an A97 db...I want to > export/import 2 query results...1 to each sheet in a new excel workbook. > Any suggestions/directions to head? > > Thanks, > > Mark A. Matte > > _________________________________________________________________ > Fast. Reliable. Get MSN 9 Dial-up - 3 months for the price of 1! > (Limited-time Offer) > http://click.atdmt.com/AVE/go/onm00200361ave/direct/01/ > > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com ----------------------------------------- Get Breaking News from CNN, ABC, NBC, CBS Now. http://www.xuppa.com/news/?link=webmail From jwelz at hotmail.com Thu Mar 4 23:45:53 2004 From: jwelz at hotmail.com (Jürgen Welz) Date: Thu, 04 Mar 2004 22:45:53 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] Export to Mutiple Excel Sheets Message-ID: Although DoCmd.TransferSpreadsheet will create a sheet for each named query or table that you export to a file at a target path, my predisposition to keep it simple and fast is circumscribed by constraints of reliability, error management, data validation and format control that dictate Excel automation. If you're just dumping a bunch of pure text and integers into a sheet, no problem. If you've got strings like '02E234', Excel will arbitrarily assume that it is a number in exponential notation and I've had that kind of issue bite me from time to time in the past. Using automation, you can insert sheets in a particular order, set column widths, row heights, sorts, filters, do conditional formatting, name ranges, set titles, headers, protection .... My export/imort needs have never been met by the docmd methods, but if all I needed was a portable emailable snapshot of predictably transferable data, I would consider those methods. Ciao J?rgen Welz Edmonton, Alberta jwelz at hotmail.com >From: >Reply-To: Access Developers discussion and problem >solving >To: >Subject: Re: [AccessD] Export to Mutiple Excel Sheets >Date: Thu, 4 Mar 2004 23:20:37 -0500 (EST) >MIME-Version: 1.0 >Received: from mc2-f12.hotmail.com ([65.54.190.19]) by mc2-s17.hotmail.com >with Microsoft SMTPSVC(5.0.2195.6824); Thu, 4 Mar 2004 20:22:01 -0800 >Received: from databaseadvisors.com ([209.135.140.44]) by >mc2-f12.hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC(5.0.2195.6824); Thu, 4 Mar 2004 >20:21:05 -0800 >Received: from databaseadvisors.com (databaseadvisors.com >[209.135.140.44])by databaseadvisors.com (8.11.6/8.11.6) with ESMTP id >i254KaM02761;Thu, 4 Mar 2004 22:20:36 -0600 >Received: from heck.bay9.com ([66.28.60.200])by databaseadvisors.com >(8.11.6/8.11.6) with ESMTP id i254KUM02705for >; Thu, 4 Mar 2004 22:20:31 -0600 >Received: from xuppa.com (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1])by >heck.bay9.com (Postfix) with SMTP id CCBDA5B500for >;Thu, 4 Mar 2004 23:20:37 -0500 (EST) >Received: from 24.187.36.171 (proxying for unknown)(SquirrelMail >authenticated user Oleg_123)by heck.bay9.com with HTTP; Thu, 4 Mar 2004 >23:20:37 -0500 (EST) >X-Message-Info: jl7Vrt/mfspXc7/cLcma3MAwjiq6mK2F >Message-ID: <3049.24.187.36.171.1078460437.squirrel at heck.bay9.com> >In-Reply-To: >References: >X-Mailer: SquirrelMail (version 1.2.10) >X-BeenThere: accessd at databaseadvisors.com >X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.4 >Precedence: list >List-Id: Access Developers discussion and problem >solving >List-Help: >List-Post: >List-Subscribe: >, >List-Archive: >List-Unsubscribe: >, >Errors-To: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com >Return-Path: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com >X-OriginalArrivalTime: 05 Mar 2004 04:21:05.0359 (UTC) >FILETIME=[46AA15F0:01C40269] > >Mark, > >I thought that its possible to specify sheets in export macro; is it so ? > > > Hello All, > > > > I need to build an export/import function into an A97 db...I want to > > export/import 2 query results...1 to each sheet in a new excel workbook. > > Any suggestions/directions to head? > > > > Thanks, > > > > Mark A. Matte > > > > _________________________________________________________________ > > Fast. Reliable. Get MSN 9 Dial-up - 3 months for the price of 1! > > (Limited-time Offer) > > http://click.atdmt.com/AVE/go/onm00200361ave/direct/01/ > > > > -- > > _______________________________________________ > > AccessD mailing list > > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > >----------------------------------------- >Get Breaking News from CNN, ABC, NBC, CBS Now. >http://www.xuppa.com/news/?link=webmail > > >-- >_______________________________________________ >AccessD mailing list >AccessD at databaseadvisors.com >http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd >Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com _________________________________________________________________ MSN Premium: Up to 11 personalized e-mail addresses and 2 months FREE* http://join.msn.com/?pgmarket=en-ca&page=byoa/prem&xAPID=1994&DI=1034&SU=http://hotmail.com/enca&HL=Market_MSNIS_Taglines From joconnell at indy.rr.com Fri Mar 5 00:04:52 2004 From: joconnell at indy.rr.com (Joseph O'Connell) Date: Fri, 5 Mar 2004 01:04:52 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] OT - Hit counter for web pages Message-ID: <0b3401c40277$e6d810a0$6701a8c0@joe> John, Have you checked with your hosting company? Most commercial hosting sites offer a Web Trends report. The complete report will provide you with more information than you will be able to use! In addition to hit counts, a few of the other interesting things are the amount of time users spent on each page, the "route" that they took through your site, top entry and exit pages, user browser and geographic information, bandwith utilized, etc. This report can be generated for any time frame (daily, weekly monthly). Joe O'Connell -----Original Message----- From: John W. Colby To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Date: Thursday, March 04, 2004 10:48 PM Subject: RE: [AccessD] OT - Hit counter for web pages |So that I can see which pages are visited and how often. | |John W. Colby |www.ColbyConsulting.com | |-----Original Message----- |From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com |[mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Stephen Hait |Sent: Thursday, March 04, 2004 10:37 PM |To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com |Subject: Re: [AccessD] OT - Hit counter for web pages | | |> Does anyone have a hit counter that I can just cut and paste code |> into my web page? Shows my ignorance I know but I need something |> that will do that for me. I need a hit counter for each page, |> visible on the page itself. |> |> John W. Colby | |Just curious - why do you need a hit counter on every page of |your web site? For your information? For the benefit of your |visitors? Something else? Depending on your goals, there may |be other alternatives. | |Regards, |Stephen |-- |_______________________________________________ |AccessD mailing list |AccessD at databaseadvisors.com |http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd |Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com | | | |-- |_______________________________________________ |AccessD mailing list |AccessD at databaseadvisors.com |http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd |Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From accessd at shaw.ca Fri Mar 5 00:50:42 2004 From: accessd at shaw.ca (Jim Lawrence (AccessD)) Date: Thu, 04 Mar 2004 22:50:42 -0800 Subject: [AccessD] Drew - Age of the Archives? In-Reply-To: <2F8793082E00D4119A1700B0D0216BF802227938@main2.marlow.com> Message-ID: Hi Drew: I fully sympathize...been there down that. My theory/method of doing a presentation is to: 1. Never use a machine that you have not used before. 2. Have someone else test your software, before going to the client's site, because as the designer you are too close to the application and will not see the obvious. 3. If demo-ing software, run through a full scenario, plan ever step and never never deviate from the script...no matter how the client asks. Anything not tested will crash, but only when first showing a client. OT Totally off topic: Went to a client's site to give a talk and demo. On the way to the conference room took the opportunity to smell the tiger lilies, in the reception area. After an hour long presentation, that when better than expected, took a break and while in the washroom notice that pollen from the flowers was all over my face and I looked like the loser in a bad fight. Washed up went back to the meeting but now avoid Tiger Lilies as well as garlic before seeing clients. Jim -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of DWUTKA at marlow.com Sent: Thursday, March 04, 2004 9:35 AM To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: RE: [AccessD] Drew - Age of the Archives? LOL. Been there myself, several times. My biggest 'presentation' issue, is due to the situation I am in. I am half of an IT department, and the rest of the company is relatively clueless when it comes to computers. So when I am presenting a new 'project', I will almost always get a 'This should be easy, but how do I do.....'. What they ask for is usually WAY beyond the scope of the project, but to them, it's just another magic button. Gotta love it! Drew -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of John Bartow Sent: Thursday, March 04, 2004 9:51 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] Drew - Age of the Archives? I don't blame you, after the run of luck you've had! I'm leery every time I do a presentation. I don't mind speaking in front of people but it seems something always goes wrong - no matter how prepared I am. I've done presentations for conferences where the coordinator guaranteed the equipment was what I asked for and when I show up they have projectors that don't handle 1024x768 which is the only res. at which my laptop's video looks good (640 cuts the text lines up). I had another conference where I was setup 30 minutes early, everything worked fine, unplug my laptop and the first presenter plugs his in, he goes on and finishes, I plug my laptop into the projector and POOF my laptop's screen goes out. It took about 20 minutes to get it all rearranged so that my partner could run the presentation from the projected image rather than the laptop, while I talked about it. (we were showing a new app. live of course.) Luckily there was a third presenter that went on in our time slot and 500 people weren't just sitting there getting irritated. Took a month to get the screen replaced too :o( John BTW AccessD as we know it was formed in 2001 so I guess I have it narrowed down enough now :o) -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of DWUTKA at marlow.com Sent: Wednesday, March 03, 2004 11:47 AM To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: RE: [AccessD] Drew - Age of the Archives? I actually gave a presentation on the 'indexing' capabilities I built for the archives last month. After my track record with major changes/updates to the archives, I was just a little leary to give that presentation....go figure! Drew -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of John Bartow Sent: Wednesday, March 03, 2004 11:24 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] Drew - Age of the Archives? Drew, Yes, it is an interesting timeline, I thought of a few of those things too! :o) Thanks, John -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of DWUTKA at marlow.com Sent: Wednesday, March 03, 2004 10:47 AM To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: RE: [AccessD] Drew - Age of the Archives? Hmmmm, let's work backwards. I know that the archives stopping archiving this past August/September (2003), because that's when I separated from Tammy. I know the archives started using the 'Memo Field Indexing' in April of 2003, because that is when my apartment caught fire. I know I moved the archives from Marlow to my home in early January of 2003, because my DSL company went bankrupt and pulled the plug on their network then. I have no clue when I actually 'started' the archives, other then a wild guess at about 6 months before I moved it home. So I would say July or August of 2002. Drew (Interesting timeline, eh?) -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of John Bartow Sent: Tuesday, March 02, 2004 9:00 PM To: _DBA-Access Subject: [AccessD] Drew - Age of the Archives? Drew, Someone recently asked me how long I have been on this list. The only point of reference I could think of was about two years before I sent all my archives to Drew! So, Do you know when you put the archives together on your site? John "My memory is 40 years ahead of it time (I have a like I'm over 80)" Bartow -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From accessd at shaw.ca Fri Mar 5 01:00:49 2004 From: accessd at shaw.ca (Jim Lawrence (AccessD)) Date: Thu, 04 Mar 2004 23:00:49 -0800 Subject: [AccessD] OT - Hit counter for web pages In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Hi John: There is alway the same one as is on the DBA front page...It's free but might be more that you need. HTH Jim -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of John W. Colby Sent: Thursday, March 04, 2004 4:49 PM To: AccessD; DBA - Tech Subject: [AccessD] OT - Hit counter for web pages Does anyone have a hit counter that I can just cut and paste code into my web page? Shows my ignorance I know but I need something that will do that for me. I need a hit counter for each page, visible on the page itself. John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From Erwin.Craps at ithelps.be Fri Mar 5 01:18:12 2004 From: Erwin.Craps at ithelps.be (Erwin Craps - IT Helps) Date: Fri, 5 Mar 2004 08:18:12 +0100 Subject: [AccessD] OT - Hit counter for web pages Message-ID: <46B976F2B698FF46A4FE7636509B22DF0AD597@stekelbes.ithelps.local> John. Visible hit counters are included in frontpage. I believer 3 or 4 different ones. Erwin -----Oorspronkelijk bericht----- Van: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] Namens Jim Lawrence (AccessD) Verzonden: vrijdag 5 maart 2004 8:01 Aan: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Onderwerp: RE: [AccessD] OT - Hit counter for web pages Hi John: There is alway the same one as is on the DBA front page...It's free but might be more that you need. HTH Jim -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of John W. Colby Sent: Thursday, March 04, 2004 4:49 PM To: AccessD; DBA - Tech Subject: [AccessD] OT - Hit counter for web pages Does anyone have a hit counter that I can just cut and paste code into my web page? Shows my ignorance I know but I need something that will do that for me. I need a hit counter for each page, visible on the page itself. John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From carbonnb at sympatico.ca Fri Mar 5 04:31:07 2004 From: carbonnb at sympatico.ca (Bryan Carbonnell) Date: Fri, 05 Mar 2004 05:31:07 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Building up a framework In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <4048109B.26413.1A6071@localhost> On 4 Mar 2004 at 22:48, John W. Colby wrote: > My question to the group is, should I hold a discussion of the > framework, how it is built, why I do this stuff and so forth on this > list, or take it off to another list for only those interested? Speaking for myself only: Since this is definitely ON TOPIC and ON CHARTER, I say keep it ON LIST. Quoting from the FIRST sentence on DBA's site: "The purpose of the list is to provide an open forum for the posting and discussion of news and information relating to developing applications in Microsoft Access." Those that aren't interested can delete, just like any other thread of non-interest. My personal $0.02 worth. -- Bryan Carbonnell - carbonnb at sympatico.ca 'The knack of flying is learning how to throw yourself at the ground and miss.' - HHGTG From accessd667 at yahoo.com Fri Mar 5 05:06:58 2004 From: accessd667 at yahoo.com (S D) Date: Fri, 5 Mar 2004 03:06:58 -0800 (PST) Subject: [AccessD] A2k - BeforeUpdate Error 2105!!! PLease help! Message-ID: <20040305110658.28112.qmail@web61102.mail.yahoo.com> Hi group, I'm using Access 2000 and I get an error 2105 when Access "leaves" the BeforeUpdate event. So i DO NOT have an error when I'm on the line END SUB (see code below). I've searched the web but all I fount was this link: http://support.microsoft.com/default.aspx?scid=kb;en-us;128195&Product=acc97 "-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- When you perform an action in the BeforeUpdate event, you receive the following error messages, even if you have canceled the event. In Microsoft Access 7.0 and 97: - Runtime error '2105' You can't go to the specified record --------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------" But this is regarding an Access97 database. Could it be that the database was migrated from A97 to Access2000?? If so what can I do about it? Once again the code is OK. There are no errors! Any ideas? TIA Sander Private Sub Form_BeforeUpdate(Cancel As Integer) If IsChangeOK Then ' MsgBox "form_beforeupdate" frmKAM_ProcessKey (vbKeyPageDown) Else Cancel = True End If End Sub --------------------------------- Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Search - Find what you?re looking for faster. From accessd667 at yahoo.com Fri Mar 5 05:09:22 2004 From: accessd667 at yahoo.com (S D) Date: Fri, 5 Mar 2004 03:09:22 -0800 (PST) Subject: [AccessD] Building up a framework In-Reply-To: <4048109B.26413.1A6071@localhost> Message-ID: <20040305110922.30437.qmail@web61107.mail.yahoo.com> Bryan's idea has my vote! Keep it on the list i find this extremely interesting. And it's true, if i don't like/ cannot assint in a discussion I ignore/delete it. Regards, Sander Bryan Carbonnell wrote: On 4 Mar 2004 at 22:48, John W. Colby wrote: > My question to the group is, should I hold a discussion of the > framework, how it is built, why I do this stuff and so forth on this > list, or take it off to another list for only those interested? Speaking for myself only: Since this is definitely ON TOPIC and ON CHARTER, I say keep it ON LIST. Quoting from the FIRST sentence on DBA's site: "The purpose of the list is to provide an open forum for the posting and discussion of news and information relating to developing applications in Microsoft Access." Those that aren't interested can delete, just like any other thread of non-interest. My personal $0.02 worth. -- Bryan Carbonnell - carbonnb at sympatico.ca 'The knack of flying is learning how to throw yourself at the ground and miss.' - HHGTG -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com --------------------------------- Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Search - Find what you?re looking for faster. From pedro at plex.nl Fri Mar 5 12:30:18 2004 From: pedro at plex.nl (pedro at plex.nl) Date: Fri, 05 Mar 2004 12:30:18 (MET) Subject: [AccessD] What is MSysTables??? Message-ID: <200403051130.i25BUIRM007786@mailhostC.plex.net> From gustav at cactus.dk Fri Mar 5 05:29:49 2004 From: gustav at cactus.dk (Gustav Brock) Date: Fri, 5 Mar 2004 12:29:49 +0100 Subject: [AccessD] A2k - BeforeUpdate Error 2105!!! PLease help! In-Reply-To: <20040305110658.28112.qmail@web61102.mail.yahoo.com> References: <20040305110658.28112.qmail@web61102.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <13312280438.20040305122949@cactus.dk> Hi Sander It looks like your action should be moved to the AfterUpdate event. /gustav > I'm using Access 2000 and I get an error 2105 when Access "leaves" > the BeforeUpdate event. .. From pedro at plex.nl Fri Mar 5 12:33:12 2004 From: pedro at plex.nl (pedro at plex.nl) Date: Fri, 05 Mar 2004 12:33:12 (MET) Subject: [AccessD] What is MSysTables??? Message-ID: <200403051133.i25BXCRM007955@mailhostC.plex.net> Hello Group, yesterday i had a question about MSysTables permissions, but nobody responded. Is there somebody who know what MSysTables is. Are these the hidden Objects or is this another Hidden System Object that can't be displayed? Pedro Janssen From gustav at cactus.dk Fri Mar 5 05:50:36 2004 From: gustav at cactus.dk (Gustav Brock) Date: Fri, 5 Mar 2004 12:50:36 +0100 Subject: [AccessD] Export to Mutiple Excel Sheets In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <8113526640.20040305125036@cactus.dk> Hi Mark A simple and reliable method is to create a template in Excel with the two worksheets and no data but each with a Named Range for positioning of your exported data. When you wish to export, copy the template to create your empty workbook and, from this, link the two Named Ranges to Access. Now your two Named Ranges appear as tables where you can update or append but not delete rows. As J?rgen states, you can meet all sorts of troubles with formatting and datatype selection in Excel. If this will be a problem, again the Named Ranges are a big help as you can use automation to open the worksheets and identify and (re)format the rows/columns of the Named Ranges. /gustav > I need to build an export/import function into an A97 db...I want to > export/import 2 query results...1 to each sheet in a new excel workbook. > Any suggestions/directions to head? > Thanks, > Mark A. Matte From jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com Fri Mar 5 06:10:37 2004 From: jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com (John W. Colby) Date: Fri, 5 Mar 2004 07:10:37 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Framework Discussion - Troubleshooting Message-ID: When I started using classes one of the first problems I encountered is the problem of tracking what classes loaded, and did they properly unload. Loading a class and not unloading it when you are finished causes a memory leak where the memory for the class is not returned to Windows. Sometimes Access will return the memory when Access closes, occasionally it can cause Access not to close correctly and this causes not only memory leaks (HUGE) but other problems as well. These ghost Access instances cannot be seen in Windows 98 and AFAIK there is no way to close them in versions of Windows prior to A2K. With A2K and above you have to use the task manager. Either way it is ugly. It is therefore critical that we keep track of what is loaded and ensure that we unload them when we are done. In my current framework I use a long integer that each class directly increments as it loads. This was my first tool, taken from example code from Shamil. '*+ Module Variable declaration Private mlngObjCounter As Long 'A COUNT OF ALL INSTANCES OF CLASSES IN THE SYSTEM Public Sub IncObjCounter() mlngObjCounter = mlngObjCounter + 1 end sub Public Sub DecObjCounter(strObjName As String) mlngObjCounter = mlngObjCounter - 1 end sub While this was useful and at least told me a gross count of what was loaded, I decided I really wanted to be able to see the names of the class instances loaded so I added a class. In order to do this I added a collection into which I would add the name of the class loading, and remove that class' name as the class unloaded. Private mlngObjCounter As Long 'A COUNT OF ALL INSTANCES OF CLASSES IN THE SYSTEM Public mcolObjNames As Collection Public Sub IncObjCounter(strObjName As String) mlngObjCounter = mlngObjCounter + 1 mcolObjNames.Add strObjName end sub Public Sub DecObjCounter(strObjName As String) mlngObjCounter = mlngObjCounter - 1 mcolObjNames.Remove strObjName end sub I could then use a function to read out the strings in the collection: Public Function ObjNames() As String On Error GoTo Err_ObjNames Dim strName As Variant Dim str For Each strName In mcolObjNames If Len(str) > 0 Then str = str & "; " & vbCrLf & strName Else str = strName End If Next strName ObjNames = str end function This works reasonably well and is the system I have lived with for quite awhile now. For the new framework I decided to store a pointer to the actual class instead of just the name of the class. The class calls a function that stores a pointer to itself in the collection as it loads, and a function that removes its pointer as it unloads. I do this because I now have a single place to go to look at and manipulate if necessary any class instance. One of the problems we deal with is "where is the pointer to this class stored"? In other words, a class can be loaded in code in a form, and the pointer stored in a variable in the form's header, or perhaps in a function in some piece of code and just stored in a variable local to that function, or perhaps in some class and stored in a collection in that class. If you want to go look at the class, execute a method, examine a property etc. how do you "get at" a pointer to the class? By storing a pointer to every class loaded in a collection we can now: a. get a count of all classes loaded by examining the collection count b. get a list of the names by iterating the collection asking each class it's name and building up a string c. get at the actual class and manipulate it if needed by getting the pointer from this class. For this reason I have decided to use this method. disclaimer: it is important to realize that classes do not truly unload from memory until the last pointer to the class is set to nothing. Thus if you instantiate a class, store a pointer in this collection and a variable in a form header (for example) the class will not unload until you delete the pointer in the collection AND in the form. If your code stores a pointer in another variable somewhere, the class will not close until ALL THREE pointers are set to nothing. My class init() / term() methods save the pointers in this collection as well as a child collection of the classes parent object (more on that later), and as the class unloads it will clean out these two instances. However if YOUR code saves a pointer in some other variable, I don't know that and can't clean that up, so the class will remain open until YOU set your pointer to nothing. I am toying with using a collection in each class that is a pointer to all the variables holding pointers to that class. I.e. if you need to store a pointer to the class in a variable of your own (perhaps to sink events?) then you call a method of the class passing in the variable you will use. The class puts a pointer to itself in that variable AND ... saves a pointer to that variable in a collection inside the class. Now the class CAN clean up all those errant pointers to itself by simply iterating it's own PointersToSelf collection setting each variable to nothing and removing the variable from its collection. Well, gotta go earn money now. Comments welcomed. John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com From Subscriptions at servicexp.com Fri Mar 5 06:19:31 2004 From: Subscriptions at servicexp.com (Robert Gracie) Date: Fri, 5 Mar 2004 07:19:31 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Building up a framework In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Fantastic John!! I think this is going to help a lot of people, including myself.. I think the discussion is On Topic, and I vote to keep it on this list.. Just be patient with me, as it may take me a while to digest the information enough to respond with questions.. Thanks John!! Robert Gracie www.servicexp.com -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of John W. Colby Sent: Thursday, March 04, 2004 10:48 PM To: AccessD Subject: [AccessD] Building up a framework I am preparing a series of articles for Many-to-Many on building a framework. I have a very basic framework started with the clsFW class, dclsFrm and dclsTextBox, as well as Sysvars and a couple of service classes, ZIP and Unzip. I will throw in a few more like some encryption classes. AFAICT this much is functioning, I can load a form, the form scanner finds all text boxes and loads a class for each, the SysVars function etc. Many to Many only publishes every 2 months or so. A series of articles will take 6 months to a year to get out. There is going to be a LOT of code, and some pretty in-depth discussions of collections, Classes / setup, teardown and debugging, Withevents, service classes and all the other stuff that goes into my framework. The end result will be a fully functioning if still rather basic application framework. My question to the group is, should I hold a discussion of the framework, how it is built, why I do this stuff and so forth on this list, or take it off to another list for only those interested? John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From accessd667 at yahoo.com Fri Mar 5 06:25:40 2004 From: accessd667 at yahoo.com (S D) Date: Fri, 5 Mar 2004 04:25:40 -0800 (PST) Subject: [AccessD] A2k - BeforeUpdate Error 2105!!! PLease help! In-Reply-To: <13312280438.20040305122949@cactus.dk> Message-ID: <20040305122540.51134.qmail@web61107.mail.yahoo.com> Gustav, I was going to say No, it should be in BeforeUpdate but since you answered most of my questions on this list correct...why do you think it should be in the AfterUpdate event? The code checks if there where any changes made to the current record. If so these need to be saved, or not. I believe that who-ever programmed the app was correct in putting the code in the BeforeUpdate event. Sander Gustav Brock wrote: Hi Sander It looks like your action should be moved to the AfterUpdate event. /gustav > I'm using Access 2000 and I get an error 2105 when Access "leaves" > the BeforeUpdate event. .. -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com --------------------------------- Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Search - Find what you?re looking for faster. From gustav at cactus.dk Fri Mar 5 06:49:46 2004 From: gustav at cactus.dk (Gustav Brock) Date: Fri, 5 Mar 2004 13:49:46 +0100 Subject: [AccessD] A2k - BeforeUpdate Error 2105!!! PLease help! In-Reply-To: <20040305122540.51134.qmail@web61107.mail.yahoo.com> References: <20040305122540.51134.qmail@web61107.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <16117076745.20040305134946@cactus.dk> Hi Sander Because doing anything in the BeforeUpdate event which has influence on the current record - like navigation on the form - usually will cause troubles if not failure. In my experience, this event should be reserved for validation or user confirmation - eventually setting Cancel to True. I guess that if you remove this naughty code line: frmKAM_ProcessKey (vbKeyPageDown) you will receive no error. /gustav > Gustav, > I was going to say No, it should be in BeforeUpdate but since you answered most of my questions on this list correct...why do you think it should be in the AfterUpdate event? > The code checks if there where any changes made to the current record. If so these need to be saved, or not. > I believe that who-ever programmed the app was correct in putting the code in the BeforeUpdate event. > Sander > Gustav Brock wrote: > Hi Sander > It looks like your action should be moved to the AfterUpdate event. > /gustav >> I'm using Access 2000 and I get an error 2105 when Access "leaves" >> the BeforeUpdate event. .. From jimdettman at earthlink.net Fri Mar 5 06:56:27 2004 From: jimdettman at earthlink.net (Jim Dettman) Date: Fri, 5 Mar 2004 07:56:27 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] What is MSysTables??? In-Reply-To: <200403051133.i25BXCRM007955@mailhostC.plex.net> Message-ID: Pedro, The MsysTables are hidden tables that exist in every Access database. They are used to define and store information regarding objects in a Access database file. Jim Dettman President, Online Computer Services of WNY, Inc. (315) 699-3443 jimdettman at earthlink.net -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of pedro at plex.nl Sent: Friday, March 05, 2004 12:33 PM To: AccessD at databaseadvisors.com Subject: [AccessD] What is MSysTables??? Hello Group, yesterday i had a question about MSysTables permissions, but nobody responded. Is there somebody who know what MSysTables is. Are these the hidden Objects or is this another Hidden System Object that can't be displayed? Pedro Janssen -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From gustav at cactus.dk Fri Mar 5 06:59:37 2004 From: gustav at cactus.dk (Gustav Brock) Date: Fri, 5 Mar 2004 13:59:37 +0100 Subject: [AccessD] What is MSysTables??? In-Reply-To: <200403051133.i25BXCRM007955@mailhostC.plex.net> References: <200403051133.i25BXCRM007955@mailhostC.plex.net> Message-ID: <5317667855.20040305135937@cactus.dk> Hi Pedro You may be changing the SQL of a query. Have a look here: http://dbforums.com/arch/110/2003/11/962648 /gustav > yesterday i had a question about MSysTables permissions, but nobody responded. Is there somebody who know what MSysTables is. Are these the hidden Objects or is this another Hidden System Object > that can't be displayed? From jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com Fri Mar 5 07:09:41 2004 From: jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com (John W. Colby) Date: Fri, 5 Mar 2004 08:09:41 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] What is MSysTables??? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: To see them: Tools/options/view/ check System Objects John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Jim Dettman Sent: Friday, March 05, 2004 7:56 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] What is MSysTables??? Pedro, The MsysTables are hidden tables that exist in every Access database. They are used to define and store information regarding objects in a Access database file. Jim Dettman President, Online Computer Services of WNY, Inc. (315) 699-3443 jimdettman at earthlink.net -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of pedro at plex.nl Sent: Friday, March 05, 2004 12:33 PM To: AccessD at databaseadvisors.com Subject: [AccessD] What is MSysTables??? Hello Group, yesterday i had a question about MSysTables permissions, but nobody responded. Is there somebody who know what MSysTables is. Are these the hidden Objects or is this another Hidden System Object that can't be displayed? Pedro Janssen -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com Fri Mar 5 07:11:25 2004 From: jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com (John W. Colby) Date: Fri, 5 Mar 2004 08:11:25 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] String of windows updates Message-ID: Is anyone getting a new windows update every day? It doesn't ask for a reboot so I don't. Is it possible it's just not seeing the update and sending me the same one day after day? John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com From bheid at appdevgrp.com Fri Mar 5 07:19:57 2004 From: bheid at appdevgrp.com (Bobby Heid) Date: Fri, 5 Mar 2004 08:19:57 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] String of windows updates In-Reply-To: <916187228923D311A6FE00A0CC3FAA307B7FB0@ADGSERVER> Message-ID: <916187228923D311A6FE00A0CC3FAA305BB2F6@ADGSERVER> I have been getting one of these also. I install it and it re-appears again the next day or so. I am assuming that the install is failing for some reason, but I have not had time to check it out. Bobby -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of John W. Colby Sent: Friday, March 05, 2004 8:11 AM To: AccessD Subject: [AccessD] String of windows updates Is anyone getting a new windows update every day? It doesn't ask for a reboot so I don't. Is it possible it's just not seeing the update and sending me the same one day after day? John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From bheid at appdevgrp.com Fri Mar 5 07:20:48 2004 From: bheid at appdevgrp.com (Bobby Heid) Date: Fri, 5 Mar 2004 08:20:48 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Building up a framework In-Reply-To: <916187228923D311A6FE00A0CC3FAA307B7ED0@ADGSERVER> Message-ID: <916187228923D311A6FE00A0CC3FAA305BB2F7@ADGSERVER> I vote for on-list. Bobby -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of John W. Colby Sent: Thursday, March 04, 2004 10:48 PM To: AccessD Subject: [AccessD] Building up a framework I am preparing a series of articles for Many-to-Many on building a framework. I have a very basic framework started with the clsFW class, dclsFrm and dclsTextBox, as well as Sysvars and a couple of service classes, ZIP and Unzip. I will throw in a few more like some encryption classes. AFAICT this much is functioning, I can load a form, the form scanner finds all text boxes and loads a class for each, the SysVars function etc. Many to Many only publishes every 2 months or so. A series of articles will take 6 months to a year to get out. There is going to be a LOT of code, and some pretty in-depth discussions of collections, Classes / setup, teardown and debugging, Withevents, service classes and all the other stuff that goes into my framework. The end result will be a fully functioning if still rather basic application framework. My question to the group is, should I hold a discussion of the framework, how it is built, why I do this stuff and so forth on this list, or take it off to another list for only those interested? John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From shait at mindspring.com Fri Mar 5 07:57:52 2004 From: shait at mindspring.com (Stephen Hait) Date: Fri, 5 Mar 2004 08:57:52 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] OT - Hit counter for web pages In-Reply-To: References: <4047AF6F.24623.2685976@localhost> Message-ID: <40484110.4180.4A1369C@localhost> In that case, you can get much more reliable data about your site traffic from examining the web server logs. Stuart's suggestions were good ones. I'd determine from my web host how to most easily access my log files and then, if necessary, start looking for tools to analyze them; Webalyzer might fit the bill. Regards, Stephen > So that I can see which pages are visited and how often. > > John W. Colby > www.ColbyConsulting.com > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Stephen > Hait Sent: Thursday, March 04, 2004 10:37 PM To: > accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: Re: [AccessD] OT - Hit counter > for web pages > > > > Does anyone have a hit counter that I can just cut and paste code > > into my web page? Shows my ignorance I know but I need something > > that will do that for me. I need a hit counter for each page, > > visible on the page itself. > > > > John W. Colby > > Just curious - why do you need a hit counter on every page of > your web site? For your information? For the benefit of your > visitors? Something else? Depending on your goals, there may > be other alternatives. > > Regards, > Stephen > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From Lambert.Heenan at AIG.com Fri Mar 5 08:07:28 2004 From: Lambert.Heenan at AIG.com (Heenan, Lambert) Date: Fri, 5 Mar 2004 09:07:28 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] String of windows updates Message-ID: <8B98F8EA48F8BA47A2F24E0D0AF40CF407AD7F50@xlivmbx12.aig.com> Are you installing it while logged in as an Admin user? > -----Original Message----- > From: Bobby Heid [SMTP:bheid at appdevgrp.com] > Sent: Friday, March 05, 2004 8:20 AM > To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' > Subject: RE: [AccessD] String of windows updates > > I have been getting one of these also. I install it and it re-appears > again > the next day or so. I am assuming that the install is failing for some > reason, but I have not had time to check it out. > > Bobby > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of John W. Colby > Sent: Friday, March 05, 2004 8:11 AM > To: AccessD > Subject: [AccessD] String of windows updates > > > Is anyone getting a new windows update every day? It doesn't ask for a > reboot so I don't. Is it possible it's just not seeing the update and > sending me the same one day after day? > > John W. Colby > www.ColbyConsulting.com > > > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From bheid at appdevgrp.com Fri Mar 5 08:15:09 2004 From: bheid at appdevgrp.com (Bobby Heid) Date: Fri, 5 Mar 2004 09:15:09 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] String of windows updates In-Reply-To: <916187228923D311A6FE00A0CC3FAA307B7FD0@ADGSERVER> Message-ID: <916187228923D311A6FE00A0CC3FAA305BB2F9@ADGSERVER> Yes I am. Bobby -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Heenan, Lambert Sent: Friday, March 05, 2004 9:07 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: [AccessD] String of windows updates Are you installing it while logged in as an Admin user? > -----Original Message----- > From: Bobby Heid [SMTP:bheid at appdevgrp.com] > Sent: Friday, March 05, 2004 8:20 AM > To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' > Subject: RE: [AccessD] String of windows updates > > I have been getting one of these also. I install it and it re-appears > again the next day or so. I am assuming that the install is failing > for some reason, but I have not had time to check it out. > > Bobby > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of John W. > Colby > Sent: Friday, March 05, 2004 8:11 AM > To: AccessD > Subject: [AccessD] String of windows updates > > > Is anyone getting a new windows update every day? It doesn't ask for > a reboot so I don't. Is it possible it's just not seeing the update > and sending me the same one day after day? > > John W. Colby > www.ColbyConsulting.com > > > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From liz at symphonyinfo.com Fri Mar 5 08:23:38 2004 From: liz at symphonyinfo.com (Liz Doering) Date: Fri, 5 Mar 2004 08:23:38 -0600 Subject: [AccessD] Database Un-splitter: New 'Feature' from Microsoft In-Reply-To: <20040304232034.EZLN1860.imf24aec.mail.bellsouth.net@SUSANONE> Message-ID: I hunted around for an option that governed this, but I didn't find one--did I miss something? Having a 'local copy' is the part that caused the problem. -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Susan Harkins Sent: Thursday, March 04, 2004 5:21 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: [AccessD] Database Un-splitter: New 'Feature' from Microsoft 2003 does let you work with a "local" copy of a linked table -- are you sure someone didn't just choose the wrong option? Susan H. I ran smack up against a new 'feature' of Access 2003 today. I have a client who, for reasons of his own, keeps his BE in Access 97. With the purchase of new machines, some of his users have gotten to Access 2003, while others are still using 97. I made a few changes on site last week, using a 2003 machine for development and blithely saving my changes to a 97 version when I was done. Without saying a word, 2003 made a copy of all the BE tables in the new 97 FE. So now my 97 user is working on a copy, disconnected from his server. Of course it took him 3 days' worth of work to notice. I'll be spending Monday cleaning up this fiasco. And several more days, wondering why somebody didn't put a little warning on this process! The one good point: he's gotten over his need to keep 97. Liz Doering Symphony Information Services liz at symphonyinfo.com www.symphonyinfo.com 763-391-7400 -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From Oleg_123 at xuppa.com Fri Mar 5 08:25:36 2004 From: Oleg_123 at xuppa.com (Oleg_123 at xuppa.com) Date: Fri, 5 Mar 2004 09:25:36 -0500 (EST) Subject: [AccessD] IIF statement In-Reply-To: <916187228923D311A6FE00A0CC3FAA305BB2F9@ADGSERVER> References: <916187228923D311A6FE00A0CC3FAA307B7FD0@ADGSERVER> <916187228923D311A6FE00A0CC3FAA305BB2F9@ADGSERVER> Message-ID: <36622.63.251.87.214.1078496736.squirrel@heck.bay9.com> Hey group, i am still trying to figure out how to do else in an IIF t-sql statement this part works fine -- (IIf([Ron Data mid].DEPT In ("MSS","MID","SW","OW"),[Ron Data mid].[MS Date Opened])) AS NewDateOpened, however i d'like every other department to get data from a differnt column . How should i do it ? (IIf([Ron Data mid].DEPT In ("MSS","MID","SW","OW"),[Ron Data mid].[MS Date Opened])ELSE [MID_Date_Opened]) AS NewDateOpened, oleg ----------------------------------------- Get Breaking News from CNN, ABC, NBC, CBS Now. http://www.xuppa.com/news/?link=webmail From gustav at cactus.dk Fri Mar 5 08:35:07 2004 From: gustav at cactus.dk (Gustav Brock) Date: Fri, 5 Mar 2004 15:35:07 +0100 Subject: [AccessD] IIF statement In-Reply-To: <36622.63.251.87.214.1078496736.squirrel@heck.bay9.com> References: <916187228923D311A6FE00A0CC3FAA307B7FD0@ADGSERVER> <916187228923D311A6FE00A0CC3FAA305BB2F9@ADGSERVER> <36622.63.251.87.214.1078496736.squirrel@heck.bay9.com> Message-ID: <323397654.20040305153507@cactus.dk> Hi Oleg Don't know much about T-SQL but how about this: (IIf([Ron Data mid].DEPT In ("MSS","MID","SW","OW"), [Ron Data mid].[MS Date Opened]), [MID_Date_Opened]) AS NewDateOpened, /gustav > Hey group, i am still trying to figure out how to do else in an IIF t-sql > statement > this part works fine -- > (IIf([Ron Data mid].DEPT In ("MSS","MID","SW","OW"),[Ron Data mid].[MS > Date Opened])) AS NewDateOpened, > however i d'like every other department to get data from a differnt column > . How should i do it ? > (IIf([Ron Data mid].DEPT In ("MSS","MID","SW","OW"),[Ron Data mid].[MS > Date Opened])ELSE [MID_Date_Opened]) AS NewDateOpened, > oleg > ----------------------------------------- > Get Breaking News from CNN, ABC, NBC, CBS Now. > http://www.xuppa.com/news/?link=webmail From music at weblnk.net Fri Mar 5 08:42:38 2004 From: music at weblnk.net (Jason Strickland) Date: Fri, 5 Mar 2004 09:42:38 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] String of windows updates In-Reply-To: <916187228923D311A6FE00A0CC3FAA305BB2F9@ADGSERVER> Message-ID: <200403051442.i25EgbYH010740@ns5.caro.net> It has been my experience with Windows Update lately that if you do not reboot, then it will keep downloading it over and over. Jason -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Bobby Heid Sent: Friday, March 05, 2004 9:15 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: [AccessD] String of windows updates Yes I am. Bobby -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Heenan, Lambert Sent: Friday, March 05, 2004 9:07 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: [AccessD] String of windows updates Are you installing it while logged in as an Admin user? > -----Original Message----- > From: Bobby Heid [SMTP:bheid at appdevgrp.com] > Sent: Friday, March 05, 2004 8:20 AM > To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' > Subject: RE: [AccessD] String of windows updates > > I have been getting one of these also. I install it and it re-appears > again the next day or so. I am assuming that the install is failing > for some reason, but I have not had time to check it out. > > Bobby > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of John W. > Colby > Sent: Friday, March 05, 2004 8:11 AM > To: AccessD > Subject: [AccessD] String of windows updates > > > Is anyone getting a new windows update every day? It doesn't ask for > a reboot so I don't. Is it possible it's just not seeing the update > and sending me the same one day after day? > > John W. Colby > www.ColbyConsulting.com > > > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From Oleg_123 at xuppa.com Fri Mar 5 08:43:57 2004 From: Oleg_123 at xuppa.com (Oleg_123 at xuppa.com) Date: Fri, 5 Mar 2004 09:43:57 -0500 (EST) Subject: [AccessD] IIF statement In-Reply-To: <323397654.20040305153507@cactus.dk> References: <916187228923D311A6FE00A0CC3FAA307B7FD0@ADGSERVER> <916187228923D311A6FE00A0CC3FAA305BB2F9@ADGSERVER> <36622.63.251.87.214.1078496736.squirrel@heck.bay9.com> <323397654.20040305153507@cactus.dk> Message-ID: <34978.63.251.87.214.1078497837.squirrel@heck.bay9.com> Gustav, u ar right (only the perentasis order is a little different -- (IIf([Ron Data mid].DEPT In ("MSS","MID","SW","OW"), [Ron Data mid].[MS Date Opened], [MID_Date_Opened])) AS NewDateOpened, > (IIf([Ron Data mid].DEPT In ("MSS","MID","SW","OW"), > [Ron Data mid].[MS Date Opened]), [MID_Date_Opened]) > AS NewDateOpened, > > > /gustav > > >> Hey group, i am still trying to figure out how to do else in an IIF >> t-sql statement > >> this part works fine -- > >> (IIf([Ron Data mid].DEPT In ("MSS","MID","SW","OW"),[Ron Data >> mid].[MS >> Date Opened])) AS NewDateOpened, > >> however i d'like every other department to get data from a differnt >> column . How should i do it ? > >> (IIf([Ron Data mid].DEPT In ("MSS","MID","SW","OW"),[Ron Data >> mid].[MS >> Date Opened])ELSE [MID_Date_Opened]) AS NewDateOpened, > >> oleg > > >> ----------------------------------------- >> Get Breaking News from CNN, ABC, NBC, CBS Now. >> http://www.xuppa.com/news/?link=webmail > > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com ----------------------------------------- Get Breaking News from CNN, ABC, NBC, CBS Now. http://www.xuppa.com/news/?link=webmail From john at winhaven.net Fri Mar 5 08:47:50 2004 From: john at winhaven.net (John Bartow) Date: Fri, 5 Mar 2004 08:47:50 -0600 Subject: [AccessD] String of windows updates In-Reply-To: Message-ID: This would likely be a failed update. I've had it happen once before on w2k. (Wxp hasn't been nagging me lately.) There are some pointed articles on MS's site concerning this. What I suggest is to remove the update (if listed in the add/remove/applet), download the update manually from the Windows Update Catalog, (as Admin) scan your system for malware with a different company's online scanner than the one you have installed (try Trend Micro's or Panda's(online its good)) and Spybot Search & Destroy. (BTW-this is a good thing to do during lunch as it takes awhile.) Stop all unnecessary processes and install from the downloaded file. Good Luck, John B -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of John W. Colby Sent: Friday, March 05, 2004 7:11 AM To: AccessD Subject: [AccessD] String of windows updates Is anyone getting a new windows update every day? It doesn't ask for a reboot so I don't. Is it possible it's just not seeing the update and sending me the same one day after day? John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From mikedorism at adelphia.net Fri Mar 5 08:56:21 2004 From: mikedorism at adelphia.net (Mike & Doris Manning) Date: Fri, 5 Mar 2004 09:56:21 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Building up a framework In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <000001c402c2$05f3c7f0$a1194244@hargrove.internal> I would definitely be interested in learning more. It does fit list netiquette. Doris Manning Database Administrator Hargrove Inc. www.hargroveinc.com -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of John W. Colby Sent: Thursday, March 04, 2004 10:48 PM To: AccessD Subject: [AccessD] Building up a framework I am preparing a series of articles for Many-to-Many on building a framework. I have a very basic framework started with the clsFW class, dclsFrm and dclsTextBox, as well as Sysvars and a couple of service classes, ZIP and Unzip. I will throw in a few more like some encryption classes. AFAICT this much is functioning, I can load a form, the form scanner finds all text boxes and loads a class for each, the SysVars function etc. Many to Many only publishes every 2 months or so. A series of articles will take 6 months to a year to get out. There is going to be a LOT of code, and some pretty in-depth discussions of collections, Classes / setup, teardown and debugging, Withevents, service classes and all the other stuff that goes into my framework. The end result will be a fully functioning if still rather basic application framework. My question to the group is, should I hold a discussion of the framework, how it is built, why I do this stuff and so forth on this list, or take it off to another list for only those interested? John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From ggonzalez at cccis.com Fri Mar 5 09:05:17 2004 From: ggonzalez at cccis.com (ggonzalez at cccis.com) Date: Fri, 5 Mar 2004 09:05:17 -0600 Subject: [AccessD] Building up a framework In-Reply-To: <916187228923D311A6FE00A0CC3FAA305BB2F7@ADGSERVER> Message-ID: I vote for on-list. From ggonzalez at cccis.com Fri Mar 5 09:08:17 2004 From: ggonzalez at cccis.com (ggonzalez at cccis.com) Date: Fri, 5 Mar 2004 09:08:17 -0600 Subject: [AccessD] IIF statement In-Reply-To: <36622.63.251.87.214.1078496736.squirrel@heck.bay9.com> Message-ID: have you tried using a case statment MonthlyAmount = CASE WHEN dbo.TBLASG_PIPELINE.PRODISYEARLY = '1' THEN dbo.TBLASG_PIPELINE.PRODAMOUNT / 12 ELSE dbo.TBLASG_PIPELINE.PRODAMOUNT END Sent by: To: accessd-bounces at databasea cc: dvisors.com Subject: [AccessD] IIF statement 03/05/2004 08:25 AM Please respond to Access Developers discussion and problem solving Hey group, i am still trying to figure out how to do else in an IIF t-sql statement this part works fine -- (IIf([Ron Data mid].DEPT In ("MSS","MID","SW","OW"),[Ron Data mid].[MS Date Opened])) AS NewDateOpened, however i d'like every other department to get data from a differnt column . How should i do it ? (IIf([Ron Data mid].DEPT In ("MSS","MID","SW","OW"),[Ron Data mid].[MS Date Opened])ELSE [MID_Date_Opened]) AS NewDateOpened, oleg ----------------------------------------- Get Breaking News from CNN, ABC, NBC, CBS Now. http://www.xuppa.com/news/?link=webmail -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From Patricia.O'Connor at DFA.STATE.NY.US Fri Mar 5 09:19:38 2004 From: Patricia.O'Connor at DFA.STATE.NY.US (O'Connor, Patricia ) Date: Fri, 5 Mar 2004 10:19:38 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Building up a framework Message-ID: I agree Patti > -----Original Message----- > From: Bryan Carbonnell [mailto:carbonnb at sympatico.ca] > Sent: Friday, March 05, 2004 05:31 AM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: Re: [AccessD] Building up a framework > > > On 4 Mar 2004 at 22:48, John W. Colby wrote: > > > My question to the group is, should I hold a discussion of the > > framework, how it is built, why I do this stuff and so forth on this > > list, or take it off to another list for only those interested? > > Speaking for myself only: > > Since this is definitely ON TOPIC and ON CHARTER, I say keep it ON > LIST. > > Quoting from the FIRST sentence on DBA's site: > "The purpose of the list is to provide an open forum for the posting > and discussion of news and information relating to developing > applications in Microsoft Access." > > Those that aren't interested can delete, just like any other thread > of non-interest. > > My personal $0.02 worth. > > -- > Bryan Carbonnell - carbonnb at sympatico.ca > 'The knack of flying is learning how to throw yourself at the ground > and miss.' - HHGTG > > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > From Oleg_123 at xuppa.com Fri Mar 5 09:20:23 2004 From: Oleg_123 at xuppa.com (Oleg_123 at xuppa.com) Date: Fri, 5 Mar 2004 10:20:23 -0500 (EST) Subject: [AccessD] another IIF statement question In-Reply-To: <34978.63.251.87.214.1078497837.squirrel@heck.bay9.com> References: <916187228923D311A6FE00A0CC3FAA307B7FD0@ADGSERVER> <916187228923D311A6FE00A0CC3FAA305BB2F9@ADGSERVER> <36622.63.251.87.214.1078496736.squirrel@heck.bay9.com> <323397654.20040305153507@cactus.dk> <34978.63.251.87.214.1078497837.squirrel@heck.bay9.com> Message-ID: <36569.63.251.87.214.1078500023.squirrel@heck.bay9.com> I have 3 columns - if one contains a record the other two are blank; and I an trying to combine them 3 in one column. I was able to combine contest of 2 columns -- (IIF(NOT isNull([Ron Data mid].[SW_Date_Closed]), [Ron Data mid].[SW_Date_Closed],[OW_Date_Closed])) AS W_Date_Closed but i am not sure how to add the third. i needs to be in the following fashion - if (a is not null), a, else if (b is not null), b, else c) any hints ? (IIF(NOT isNull([Ron Data mid].[SW_Date_Closed]), [Ron Data mid].[SW_Date_Closed], (NOT isNull ([OW_Date_Closed]), [MSS_Date_Closed] )) AS W_Date_Closed, ----------------------------------------- Get Breaking News from CNN, ABC, NBC, CBS Now. http://www.xuppa.com/news/?link=webmail From Oleg_123 at xuppa.com Fri Mar 5 09:33:49 2004 From: Oleg_123 at xuppa.com (Oleg_123 at xuppa.com) Date: Fri, 5 Mar 2004 10:33:49 -0500 (EST) Subject: [AccessD] IIF statement In-Reply-To: References: <36622.63.251.87.214.1078496736.squirrel@heck.bay9.com> Message-ID: <22578.63.251.87.214.1078500829.squirrel@heck.bay9.com> i get 'missing operator' error and the word WHEN is highlighted W_Date_Closed = CASE WHEN (NOT isNull([Ron Data mid].[SW_Date_Closed])) THEN [SW_Date_Closed] ELSE WHEN (NOT isNull([Ron Data mid].[OW_Date_Closed])) THEN [OW_Date_Closed] ELSE [MSS_Date_Closed] END > > > > > have you tried using a case statment > > MonthlyAmount = > CASE WHEN dbo.TBLASG_PIPELINE.PRODISYEARLY = '1' > THEN dbo.TBLASG_PIPELINE.PRODAMOUNT / 12 > ELSE dbo.TBLASG_PIPELINE.PRODAMOUNT > END > > > > > > > Sent by: > To: > > accessd-bounces at databasea cc: > > dvisors.com > Subject: [AccessD] IIF statement > > > > 03/05/2004 08:25 AM > > Please respond to Access > > Developers > discussion and > > problem solving > > > > > > > > Hey group, i am still trying to figure out how to do else in an IIF > t-sql statement > > this part works fine -- > > (IIf([Ron Data mid].DEPT In ("MSS","MID","SW","OW"),[Ron Data mid].[MS > Date Opened])) AS NewDateOpened, > > however i d'like every other department to get data from a differnt > column . How should i do it ? > > (IIf([Ron Data mid].DEPT In ("MSS","MID","SW","OW"),[Ron Data mid].[MS > Date Opened])ELSE [MID_Date_Opened]) AS NewDateOpened, > > oleg > > > ----------------------------------------- > Get Breaking News from CNN, ABC, NBC, CBS Now. > http://www.xuppa.com/news/?link=webmail > > > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com ----------------------------------------- Get Breaking News from CNN, ABC, NBC, CBS Now. http://www.xuppa.com/news/?link=webmail From markamatte at hotmail.com Fri Mar 5 08:58:32 2004 From: markamatte at hotmail.com (Mark A Matte) Date: Fri, 05 Mar 2004 14:58:32 +0000 Subject: [AccessD] Export to Mutiple Excel Sheets Message-ID: >but if all I needed was a portable emailable snapshot of predictably >transferable data, I would consider those methods. This is exactly what I need...what I didn't want to do was export 2 files for the other user to import...just 1 file with 2 worksheets...the excel file will almost never even be viewed...just imported. >Although DoCmd.TransferSpreadsheet will create a sheet for each named query >or table that you export to a file at a target path If I understand this statement...Using the tranferspreadsheet will automatically create another worksheet if I use the same target path? Thanks, Mark >From: "J?rgen Welz" >Reply-To: Access Developers discussion and problem >solving >To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com >Subject: Re: [AccessD] Export to Mutiple Excel Sheets >Date: Thu, 04 Mar 2004 22:45:53 -0700 > >Although DoCmd.TransferSpreadsheet will create a sheet for each named query >or table that you export to a file at a target path, my predisposition to >keep it simple and fast is circumscribed by constraints of reliability, >error management, data validation and format control that dictate Excel >automation. If you're just dumping a bunch of pure text and integers into >a sheet, no problem. If you've got strings like '02E234', Excel will >arbitrarily assume that it is a number in exponential notation and I've had >that kind of issue bite me from time to time in the past. > >Using automation, you can insert sheets in a particular order, set column >widths, row heights, sorts, filters, do conditional formatting, name >ranges, set titles, headers, protection .... My export/imort needs have >never been met by the docmd methods, but if all I needed was a portable >emailable snapshot of predictably transferable data, I would consider those >methods. > > > >Ciao >J?rgen Welz >Edmonton, Alberta >jwelz at hotmail.com > > > > > >>From: >>Reply-To: Access Developers discussion and problem >>solving >>To: >>Subject: Re: [AccessD] Export to Mutiple Excel Sheets >>Date: Thu, 4 Mar 2004 23:20:37 -0500 (EST) >>MIME-Version: 1.0 >>Received: from mc2-f12.hotmail.com ([65.54.190.19]) by mc2-s17.hotmail.com >>with Microsoft SMTPSVC(5.0.2195.6824); Thu, 4 Mar 2004 20:22:01 -0800 >>Received: from databaseadvisors.com ([209.135.140.44]) by >>mc2-f12.hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC(5.0.2195.6824); Thu, 4 Mar 2004 >>20:21:05 -0800 >>Received: from databaseadvisors.com (databaseadvisors.com >>[209.135.140.44])by databaseadvisors.com (8.11.6/8.11.6) with ESMTP id >>i254KaM02761;Thu, 4 Mar 2004 22:20:36 -0600 >>Received: from heck.bay9.com ([66.28.60.200])by databaseadvisors.com >>(8.11.6/8.11.6) with ESMTP id i254KUM02705for >>; Thu, 4 Mar 2004 22:20:31 -0600 >>Received: from xuppa.com (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1])by >>heck.bay9.com (Postfix) with SMTP id CCBDA5B500for >>;Thu, 4 Mar 2004 23:20:37 -0500 (EST) >>Received: from 24.187.36.171 (proxying for unknown)(SquirrelMail >>authenticated user Oleg_123)by heck.bay9.com with HTTP; Thu, 4 Mar 2004 >>23:20:37 -0500 (EST) >>X-Message-Info: jl7Vrt/mfspXc7/cLcma3MAwjiq6mK2F >>Message-ID: <3049.24.187.36.171.1078460437.squirrel at heck.bay9.com> >>In-Reply-To: >>References: >>X-Mailer: SquirrelMail (version 1.2.10) >>X-BeenThere: accessd at databaseadvisors.com >>X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.4 >>Precedence: list >>List-Id: Access Developers discussion and problem >>solving >>List-Help: >>List-Post: >>List-Subscribe: >>, >>List-Archive: >>List-Unsubscribe: >>, >>Errors-To: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com >>Return-Path: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com >>X-OriginalArrivalTime: 05 Mar 2004 04:21:05.0359 (UTC) >>FILETIME=[46AA15F0:01C40269] >> >>Mark, >> >>I thought that its possible to specify sheets in export macro; is it so ? >> >> > Hello All, >> > >> > I need to build an export/import function into an A97 db...I want to >> > export/import 2 query results...1 to each sheet in a new excel >>workbook. >> > Any suggestions/directions to head? >> > >> > Thanks, >> > >> > Mark A. Matte >> > >> > _________________________________________________________________ >> > Fast. Reliable. Get MSN 9 Dial-up - 3 months for the price of 1! >> > (Limited-time Offer) >> > http://click.atdmt.com/AVE/go/onm00200361ave/direct/01/ >> > >> > -- >> > _______________________________________________ >> > AccessD mailing list >> > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com >> > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd >> > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com >> >> >> >>----------------------------------------- >>Get Breaking News from CNN, ABC, NBC, CBS Now. >>http://www.xuppa.com/news/?link=webmail >> >> >>-- >>_______________________________________________ >>AccessD mailing list >>AccessD at databaseadvisors.com >>http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd >>Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > >_________________________________________________________________ >MSN Premium: Up to 11 personalized e-mail addresses and 2 months FREE* >http://join.msn.com/?pgmarket=en-ca&page=byoa/prem&xAPID=1994&DI=1034&SU=http://hotmail.com/enca&HL=Market_MSNIS_Taglines > >-- >_______________________________________________ >AccessD mailing list >AccessD at databaseadvisors.com >http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd >Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com _________________________________________________________________ Create a Job Alert on MSN Careers and enter for a chance to win $1000! http://msn.careerbuilder.com/promo/kaday.htm?siteid=CBMSN_1K&sc_extcmp=JS_JASweep_MSNHotm2 From mikedorism at adelphia.net Fri Mar 5 09:46:50 2004 From: mikedorism at adelphia.net (Mike & Doris Manning) Date: Fri, 5 Mar 2004 10:46:50 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] another IIF statement question In-Reply-To: <36569.63.251.87.214.1078500023.squirrel@heck.bay9.com> Message-ID: <000001c402c9$134a6060$a1194244@hargrove.internal> IIf(NOT ISNULL(a), a, IIf(NOT ISNULL(b), b, c)) Doris Manning Database Administrator Hargrove Inc. www.hargroveinc.com -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Oleg_123 at xuppa.com Sent: Friday, March 05, 2004 10:20 AM To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: [AccessD] another IIF statement question I have 3 columns - if one contains a record the other two are blank; and I an trying to combine them 3 in one column. I was able to combine contest of 2 columns -- (IIF(NOT isNull([Ron Data mid].[SW_Date_Closed]), [Ron Data mid].[SW_Date_Closed],[OW_Date_Closed])) AS W_Date_Closed but i am not sure how to add the third. i needs to be in the following fashion - if (a is not null), a, else if (b is not null), b, else c) any hints ? (IIF(NOT isNull([Ron Data mid].[SW_Date_Closed]), [Ron Data mid].[SW_Date_Closed], (NOT isNull ([OW_Date_Closed]), [MSS_Date_Closed] )) AS W_Date_Closed, ----------------------------------------- Get Breaking News from CNN, ABC, NBC, CBS Now. http://www.xuppa.com/news/?link=webmail -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From mikedorism at adelphia.net Fri Mar 5 09:47:04 2004 From: mikedorism at adelphia.net (Mike & Doris Manning) Date: Fri, 5 Mar 2004 10:47:04 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] another IIF statement question In-Reply-To: <36569.63.251.87.214.1078500023.squirrel@heck.bay9.com> Message-ID: <000101c402c9$1be76c90$a1194244@hargrove.internal> IIf(NOT ISNULL(a), a, IIf(NOT ISNULL(b), b, c)) Doris Manning Database Administrator Hargrove Inc. www.hargroveinc.com -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Oleg_123 at xuppa.com Sent: Friday, March 05, 2004 10:20 AM To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: [AccessD] another IIF statement question I have 3 columns - if one contains a record the other two are blank; and I an trying to combine them 3 in one column. I was able to combine contest of 2 columns -- (IIF(NOT isNull([Ron Data mid].[SW_Date_Closed]), [Ron Data mid].[SW_Date_Closed],[OW_Date_Closed])) AS W_Date_Closed but i am not sure how to add the third. i needs to be in the following fashion - if (a is not null), a, else if (b is not null), b, else c) any hints ? (IIF(NOT isNull([Ron Data mid].[SW_Date_Closed]), [Ron Data mid].[SW_Date_Closed], (NOT isNull ([OW_Date_Closed]), [MSS_Date_Closed] )) AS W_Date_Closed, ----------------------------------------- Get Breaking News from CNN, ABC, NBC, CBS Now. http://www.xuppa.com/news/?link=webmail -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From prodevmg at yahoo.com Fri Mar 5 09:48:41 2004 From: prodevmg at yahoo.com (Lonnie Johnson) Date: Fri, 5 Mar 2004 07:48:41 -0800 (PST) Subject: [AccessD] Don't append if data exist Message-ID: <20040305154841.28969.qmail@web20413.mail.yahoo.com> I have a query that runs every morning. It appends records to a table if a DISCHARGE DATE falls within the current month. Each day it will duplicate records for a CLEINT. How do I NOT append a record if BOTH the CLIENT NUMBER and the same DISCHARGE DATE exist. Note it is possible for a person to be discharged twice in one month. That is ok as long as the dates are different. I can't seem to think this through. Please help me think today Lonnie Johnson ProDev, Professional Development of MS Access Databases Visit me at ==> http://www.prodev.us --------------------------------- Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Search - Find what you?re looking for faster. From my.lists at verizon.net Fri Mar 5 09:54:22 2004 From: my.lists at verizon.net (Francisco H Tapia) Date: Fri, 05 Mar 2004 07:54:22 -0800 Subject: [AccessD] OT: MZ-Tools, Smart Indenter In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <4048A2AE.3040906@verizon.net> mz-tools ROCKS!... error handling linenumbering... and even being able to copy a series of code into memory, that's bad ass. Charlotte Foust wrote: >I use MZ-Tools daily. It makes things like inserting error handlers WAY >easier than anything else I've found. > >Charlotte Foust > >-----Original Message----- >From: S D [mailto:accessd667 at yahoo.com] >Sent: Thursday, March 04, 2004 1:34 AM >To: accessd >Subject: [AccessD] OT: MZ-Tools, Smart Indenter > > >Hi group, > >For those who do not use MZ-Tools and/ or Smart Indenter. Check 'm out! >Great free tools that save a lot of time. > >Sander > >PS: I didn't build these or anything like it. I only use them :-) > > > -- -Francisco From bchacc at san.rr.com Fri Mar 5 09:56:49 2004 From: bchacc at san.rr.com (Rocky Smolin - Beach Access Software) Date: Fri, 5 Mar 2004 07:56:49 -0800 Subject: [AccessD] Deployment References: Message-ID: <012701c402ca$7844f150$6801a8c0@HAL9002> Thanks Jim. I'll either try that or give it to my developer to implement. Rocky ----- Original Message ----- From: "Jim Lawrence (AccessD)" To: "Access Developers discussion and problem solving" Sent: Thursday, March 04, 2004 6:08 PM Subject: RE: [AccessD] Deployment > Hi Rocky: > > IF you have a windows server handy for orchestrating the deployment you > could try something as follows: > > 1. Create a sub-directory, off your ftproot directory, for each person or > group of persons you wish to send the file to. > 2. Create a user name and/or group for all who you wish to deliver the > package to. Give appropriate access rights. (username/password) > 3. In your IIS, create a virtual ftp account, using/pointing the name(s) to > the ftproot dir. Make sure the virtual ftp name is the same as the actual > directory name. (If the physical directory is name .\MyProduct the virtual > ftp directory should be named MyProduct). Attach the new account(s) through > the virtual ftp process as prompted. If you are only giving download rights, > set the virtual directory to Read-Only. > 4. Send each group or single user(s), with your requesting email a line as > follow: > ftp://MyFTPVirtualAccount:theTopSecretPassword at MySiteURLorAddress/MyProductF > ileName.zip > > Pressing on the line above will automatically start a download process. > > HTH > Jim > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Rocky Smolin - > Beach Access Software > Sent: Wednesday, March 03, 2004 7:56 AM > To: AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > Subject: [AccessD] Deployment > > > Dear List: > > I've got an app I'm developing for the consumer market and we're in beta > testing now. It's in A2K so all the betas have to have Access. > > Eventually it will have to be packaged as a run-time. But at that point it > will be shrink-wrapped. > > In the short term we could expand our beta testing universe with a run-time. > So I'm trying to figure out the best way to do this. > > The problem AFAIK with the run-times is their size. Right now we can email > the mde to a beta tester and it's about 3-4MB. If I put up a run-time on my > web site, beta testers are not likely to know how to do an FTP program. > > I suppose I could make a password protected folder on my web site, and get > my web site developer to make the run-time downloadable or installable from > the site. I don't know how to do this. Maybe she does. > > I've got A97 developer's edition, Wise Installer, and the Sagekey script for > A97. But I don't think that the app can be converted back to A97. In any > event, the total A97/Wise/Sagekey package runs to about 70MB IIRC. > > I could buy A2002 or A2003 if they've got a better deployment capability > than they've had in the past. > > What are your recommendations, suggestions, thoughts? > > Thanks in advance, > > Rocky Smolin > Beach Access Software > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > From gustav at cactus.dk Fri Mar 5 09:58:35 2004 From: gustav at cactus.dk (Gustav Brock) Date: Fri, 5 Mar 2004 16:58:35 +0100 Subject: [AccessD] another IIF statement question In-Reply-To: <36569.63.251.87.214.1078500023.squirrel@heck.bay9.com> References: <916187228923D311A6FE00A0CC3FAA307B7FD0@ADGSERVER> <916187228923D311A6FE00A0CC3FAA305BB2F9@ADGSERVER> <36622.63.251.87.214.1078496736.squirrel@heck.bay9.com> <323397654.20040305153507@cactus.dk> <34978.63.251.87.214.1078497837.squirrel@heck.bay9.com> <36569.63.251.87.214.1078500023.squirrel@heck.bay9.com> Message-ID: <3628405695.20040305165835@cactus.dk> Hi Oleg > I have 3 columns - if one contains a record the other two are blank; and I > an trying to combine them 3 in one column. I was able to combine contest > of 2 columns -- > (IIF(NOT isNull([Ron Data mid].[SW_Date_Closed]), [Ron Data > mid].[SW_Date_Closed],[OW_Date_Closed])) AS W_Date_Closed How about: [Ron Data mid].[SW_Date_Closed] & [Ron Data mid].[SW_Date_Closed] & [OW_Date_Closed] AS W_Date_Closed /gustav From my.lists at verizon.net Fri Mar 5 10:07:19 2004 From: my.lists at verizon.net (Francisco H Tapia) Date: Fri, 05 Mar 2004 08:07:19 -0800 Subject: [AccessD] OT: MZ-Tools, Smart Indenter In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <4048A5B7.40607@verizon.net> Anybody know if there is something similar for DOTnet? Charlotte Foust wrote: >I use MZ-Tools daily. It makes things like inserting error handlers WAY >easier than anything else I've found. > >Charlotte Foust > >-----Original Message----- >From: S D [mailto:accessd667 at yahoo.com] >Sent: Thursday, March 04, 2004 1:34 AM >To: accessd >Subject: [AccessD] OT: MZ-Tools, Smart Indenter > > >Hi group, > >For those who do not use MZ-Tools and/ or Smart Indenter. Check 'm out! >Great free tools that save a lot of time. > >Sander > >PS: I didn't build these or anything like it. I only use them :-) > > > > -- -Francisco From jwelz at hotmail.com Fri Mar 5 10:17:08 2004 From: jwelz at hotmail.com (Jürgen Welz) Date: Fri, 05 Mar 2004 09:17:08 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] Export to Mutiple Excel Sheets Message-ID: It will create the workbook file it it doesn't exist and add a sheet every time you export to that file (up to Excel's limit of 255 sheets). If you send the same query twice to the same target workbook, it uses the same sheet in the workbook and overwrites it. The sheets will be added in sequential order, but once created, a subsequent overwrite will not move that sheet to the end of the order. It is only one line of code in the debug window to try this out. Ciao J?rgen Welz Edmonton, Alberta jwelz at hotmail.com >From: "Mark A Matte" > >>but if all I needed was a portable emailable snapshot of predictably >>transferable data, I would consider those methods. > >This is exactly what I need...what I didn't want to do was export 2 files >for the other user to import...just 1 file with 2 worksheets...the excel >file will almost never even be viewed...just imported. > >>Although DoCmd.TransferSpreadsheet will create a sheet for each named >>query or table that you export to a file at a target path > >If I understand this statement...Using the tranferspreadsheet will >automatically create another worksheet if I use the same target path? > >Thanks, > >Mark > >>From: "J?rgen Welz" >>Reply-To: Access Developers discussion and problem >>solving >>To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com >>Subject: Re: [AccessD] Export to Mutiple Excel Sheets >>Date: Thu, 04 Mar 2004 22:45:53 -0700 >> >>Although DoCmd.TransferSpreadsheet will create a sheet for each named >>query or table that you export to a file at a target path, my >>predisposition to keep it simple and fast is circumscribed by constraints >>of reliability, error management, data validation and format control that >>dictate Excel automation. If you're just dumping a bunch of pure text and >>integers into a sheet, no problem. If you've got strings like '02E234', >>Excel will arbitrarily assume that it is a number in exponential notation >>and I've had that kind of issue bite me from time to time in the past. >> >>Using automation, you can insert sheets in a particular order, set column >>widths, row heights, sorts, filters, do conditional formatting, name >>ranges, set titles, headers, protection .... My export/imort needs have >>never been met by the docmd methods, but if all I needed was a portable >>emailable snapshot of predictably transferable data, I would consider >>those methods. >> >> >> >>Ciao >>J?rgen Welz >>Edmonton, Alberta >>jwelz at hotmail.com _________________________________________________________________ MSN Premium helps eliminate e-mail viruses. Get 2 months FREE* http://join.msn.com/?pgmarket=en-ca&page=byoa/prem&xAPID=1994&DI=1034&SU=http://hotmail.com/enca&HL=Market_MSNIS_Taglines From paul.hartland at fsmail.net Fri Mar 5 10:18:58 2004 From: paul.hartland at fsmail.net (paul.hartland at fsmail.net) Date: Fri, 5 Mar 2004 17:18:58 +0100 (CET) Subject: [AccessD] IIF statement Message-ID: <18518109.1078503538638.JavaMail.www@wwinf3002> Oleg, Should work something like this (IIf([Ron Data mid].DEPT In ("MSS","MID","SW","OW"),[Ron Data mid].[MS Date Opened]) AS NewDateOpened, [MID_Date_Opened]) AS NewDateOpened) Paul Message date : Mar 05 2004, 04:08 PM >From : Oleg_123 at xuppa.com To : accessd at databaseadvisors.com Copy to : Subject : [AccessD] IIF statement Hey group, i am still trying to figure out how to do else in an IIF t-sql statement this part works fine -- (IIf([Ron Data mid].DEPT In ("MSS","MID","SW","OW"),[Ron Data mid].[MS Date Opened])) AS NewDateOpened, however i d'like every other department to get data from a differnt column . How should i do it ? (IIf([Ron Data mid].DEPT In ("MSS","MID","SW","OW"),[Ron Data mid].[MS Date Opened])ELSE [MID_Date_Opened]) AS NewDateOpened, oleg ----------------------------------------- Get Breaking News from CNN, ABC, NBC, CBS Now. http://www.xuppa.com/news/?link=webmail -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com Freeserve AnyTime - HALF PRICE for the first 3 months - Save ?7.50 a month www.freeserve.com/anytime From rsmethurst at UK.EY.COM Fri Mar 5 10:21:42 2004 From: rsmethurst at UK.EY.COM (rsmethurst at UK.EY.COM) Date: Fri, 5 Mar 2004 16:21:42 +0000 Subject: [AccessD] Changing Data Types - URGENT Message-ID: Hi All, Is there a way I can programmatically change a datatype in a field, using either VBA or SQL? TIA Ryan This e-mail and any attachment are confidential and contain proprietary information, some or all of which may be legally privileged. It is intended solely for the use of the individual or entity to which it is addressed. If you are not the intended recipient, please notify the author immediately by telephone or by replying to this e-mail, and then delete all copies of the e-mail on your system. If you are not the intended recipient, you must not use, disclose, distribute, copy, print or rely on this e-mail. Whilst we have taken reasonable precautions to ensure that this e-mail and any attachment has been checked for viruses, we cannot guarantee that they are virus free and we cannot accept liability for any damage sustained as a result of software viruses. We would advise that you carry out your own virus checks, especially before opening an attachment. The UK firm Ernst & Young LLP is a limited liability partnership registered in England and Wales with registered number OC300001 and is a member practice of Ernst & Young Global. A list of members? names is available for inspection at 1 More London Place, London, SE1 2AF, the firm?s principal place of business and its registered office. From Oleg_123 at xuppa.com Fri Mar 5 10:32:01 2004 From: Oleg_123 at xuppa.com (Oleg_123 at xuppa.com) Date: Fri, 5 Mar 2004 11:32:01 -0500 (EST) Subject: [AccessD] Changing Data Types - URGENT In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <22458.63.251.87.214.1078504321.squirrel@heck.bay9.com> Dim zz as string Dim aa zz = "8" aa = CInt(zz) > Hi All, > > Is there a way I can programmatically change a datatype in a field, > using either VBA or SQL? > > TIA > Ryan > > > > This e-mail and any attachment are confidential and contain proprietary > information, some or all of which may be legally privileged. It is > intended solely for the use of the individual or entity to which it is > addressed. If you are not the intended recipient, please notify the > author immediately by telephone or by replying to this e-mail, and then > delete all copies of the e-mail on your system. If you are not the > intended recipient, you must not use, disclose, distribute, copy, print > or rely on this e-mail. > > Whilst we have taken reasonable precautions to ensure that this e-mail > and any attachment has been checked for viruses, we cannot guarantee > that they are virus free and we cannot accept liability for any damage > sustained as a result of software viruses. We would advise that you > carry out your own virus checks, especially before opening an > attachment. > > The UK firm Ernst & Young LLP is a limited liability partnership > registered in England and Wales with registered number OC300001 and is a > member practice of Ernst & Young Global. A list of members? names is > available for inspection at 1 More London Place, London, SE1 2AF, the > firm?s principal place of business and its registered office. -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com ----------------------------------------- Get Breaking News from CNN, ABC, NBC, CBS Now. http://www.xuppa.com/news/?link=webmail From cfoust at infostatsystems.com Fri Mar 5 10:35:02 2004 From: cfoust at infostatsystems.com (Charlotte Foust) Date: Fri, 5 Mar 2004 08:35:02 -0800 Subject: [AccessD] OT: MZ-Tools, Smart Indenter Message-ID: There are a lot of Visual Studio .Net add-ins, free and otherwise, but I don't know if there are any swiss army knife type add-ins like MZ-Tools. Charlotte Foust -----Original Message----- From: Francisco H Tapia [mailto:my.lists at verizon.net] Sent: Friday, March 05, 2004 8:07 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] OT: MZ-Tools, Smart Indenter Anybody know if there is something similar for DOTnet? Charlotte Foust wrote: >I use MZ-Tools daily. It makes things like inserting error handlers >WAY easier than anything else I've found. > >Charlotte Foust > >-----Original Message----- >From: S D [mailto:accessd667 at yahoo.com] >Sent: Thursday, March 04, 2004 1:34 AM >To: accessd >Subject: [AccessD] OT: MZ-Tools, Smart Indenter > > >Hi group, > >For those who do not use MZ-Tools and/ or Smart Indenter. Check 'm out! >Great free tools that save a lot of time. > >Sander > >PS: I didn't build these or anything like it. I only use them :-) > > > > -- -Francisco -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From cfoust at infostatsystems.com Fri Mar 5 10:37:46 2004 From: cfoust at infostatsystems.com (Charlotte Foust) Date: Fri, 5 Mar 2004 08:37:46 -0800 Subject: [AccessD] Changing Data Types - URGENT Message-ID: Are you asking about changing the table structure? If so, you can't do that with a query, although you can with VBA ... And some effort. If you provide more specifics about the Access version and what you want to do, someone should be able to help you. Charlotte Foust -----Original Message----- From: rsmethurst at uk.ey.com [mailto:rsmethurst at uk.ey.com] Sent: Friday, March 05, 2004 8:22 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: [AccessD] Changing Data Types - URGENT Hi All, Is there a way I can programmatically change a datatype in a field, using either VBA or SQL? TIA Ryan This e-mail and any attachment are confidential and contain proprietary information, some or all of which may be legally privileged. It is intended solely for the use of the individual or entity to which it is addressed. If you are not the intended recipient, please notify the author immediately by telephone or by replying to this e-mail, and then delete all copies of the e-mail on your system. If you are not the intended recipient, you must not use, disclose, distribute, copy, print or rely on this e-mail. Whilst we have taken reasonable precautions to ensure that this e-mail and any attachment has been checked for viruses, we cannot guarantee that they are virus free and we cannot accept liability for any damage sustained as a result of software viruses. We would advise that you carry out your own virus checks, especially before opening an attachment. The UK firm Ernst & Young LLP is a limited liability partnership registered in England and Wales with registered number OC300001 and is a member practice of Ernst & Young Global. A list of members? names is available for inspection at 1 More London Place, London, SE1 2AF, the firm?s principal place of business and its registered office. -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From rl_stewart at highstream.net Fri Mar 5 10:39:25 2004 From: rl_stewart at highstream.net (Robert L. Stewart) Date: Fri, 05 Mar 2004 10:39:25 -0600 Subject: [AccessD] Re: Pocket PC In-Reply-To: <200403050657.i256vTM29673@databaseadvisors.com> Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20040305103858.00ba62b8@pop3.highstream.net> Do a search for Pendragon on google. At 12:57 AM 3/5/2004 -0600, you wrote: >Date: Thu, 4 Mar 2004 18:42:31 -0600 >From: >Subject: [AccessD] Pocket PC >To: >Message-ID: <200403050043.i250hhM10421 at databaseadvisors.com> >Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" > >Hi, >I have a MS Access XP app which i need to synchronize with a Pocket PC. >I have no idea how i can establish that. Is there some software out there to >design simple forms on a Pocket PC y synchroinze it with Access? >Thanks to everybody. >Rudolf F. Vanek From cfoust at infostatsystems.com Fri Mar 5 10:39:37 2004 From: cfoust at infostatsystems.com (Charlotte Foust) Date: Fri, 5 Mar 2004 08:39:37 -0800 Subject: [AccessD] OT: MZ-Tools, Smart Indenter Message-ID: One of the things I like, since I work in Source Safe almost constantly, is the Close All Windows item that gets added to the Windows menu in the IDE. Charlotte Foust -----Original Message----- From: Francisco H Tapia [mailto:my.lists at verizon.net] Sent: Friday, March 05, 2004 7:54 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] OT: MZ-Tools, Smart Indenter mz-tools ROCKS!... error handling linenumbering... and even being able to copy a series of code into memory, that's bad ass. Charlotte Foust wrote: >I use MZ-Tools daily. It makes things like inserting error handlers >WAY easier than anything else I've found. > >Charlotte Foust > >-----Original Message----- >From: S D [mailto:accessd667 at yahoo.com] >Sent: Thursday, March 04, 2004 1:34 AM >To: accessd >Subject: [AccessD] OT: MZ-Tools, Smart Indenter > > >Hi group, > >For those who do not use MZ-Tools and/ or Smart Indenter. Check 'm out! >Great free tools that save a lot of time. > >Sander > >PS: I didn't build these or anything like it. I only use them :-) > > > -- -Francisco -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From cfoust at infostatsystems.com Fri Mar 5 10:40:49 2004 From: cfoust at infostatsystems.com (Charlotte Foust) Date: Fri, 5 Mar 2004 08:40:49 -0800 Subject: [AccessD] Don't append if data exist Message-ID: If the discharge date and client combination has to be unique, create a unique key on those two fields. That will keep the duplicate records out. Charlotte Foust -----Original Message----- From: Lonnie Johnson [mailto:prodevmg at yahoo.com] Sent: Friday, March 05, 2004 7:49 AM To: 'MS-ACCESS-L at lists.missouri.edu'; AccessDevelopers; ms_access; AccessD solving' Subject: [AccessD] Don't append if data exist I have a query that runs every morning. It appends records to a table if a DISCHARGE DATE falls within the current month. Each day it will duplicate records for a CLEINT. How do I NOT append a record if BOTH the CLIENT NUMBER and the same DISCHARGE DATE exist. Note it is possible for a person to be discharged twice in one month. That is ok as long as the dates are different. I can't seem to think this through. Please help me think today Lonnie Johnson ProDev, Professional Development of MS Access Databases Visit me at ==> http://www.prodev.us --------------------------------- Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Search - Find what you're looking for faster. -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From rsmethurst at UK.EY.COM Fri Mar 5 10:42:52 2004 From: rsmethurst at UK.EY.COM (rsmethurst at UK.EY.COM) Date: Fri, 5 Mar 2004 16:42:52 +0000 Subject: [AccessD] Changing Data Types - URGENT Message-ID: Charlotte. Access 2K. - and I would like to change a field in a table from (whatever it is...text,numeric, etc.) to datetime. This change will take place after the table has been created. TIA Ryan "Charlotte Foust" Sent by: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com 05/03/2004 16:37 Please respond to Access Developers discussion and problem solving To: "Access Developers discussion and problem solving" cc: Subject: RE: [AccessD] Changing Data Types - URGENT Are you asking about changing the table structure? If so, you can't do that with a query, although you can with VBA ... And some effort. If you provide more specifics about the Access version and what you want to do, someone should be able to help you. Charlotte Foust -----Original Message----- From: rsmethurst at uk.ey.com [mailto:rsmethurst at uk.ey.com] Sent: Friday, March 05, 2004 8:22 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: [AccessD] Changing Data Types - URGENT Hi All, Is there a way I can programmatically change a datatype in a field, using either VBA or SQL? TIA Ryan This e-mail and any attachment are confidential and contain proprietary information, some or all of which may be legally privileged. It is intended solely for the use of the individual or entity to which it is addressed. If you are not the intended recipient, please notify the author immediately by telephone or by replying to this e-mail, and then delete all copies of the e-mail on your system. If you are not the intended recipient, you must not use, disclose, distribute, copy, print or rely on this e-mail. 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A list of members? names is available for inspection at 1 More London Place, London, SE1 2AF, the firm?s principal place of business and its registered office. -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com This e-mail and any attachment are confidential and contain proprietary information, some or all of which may be legally privileged. It is intended solely for the use of the individual or entity to which it is addressed. If you are not the intended recipient, please notify the author immediately by telephone or by replying to this e-mail, and then delete all copies of the e-mail on your system. If you are not the intended recipient, you must not use, disclose, distribute, copy, print or rely on this e-mail. Whilst we have taken reasonable precautions to ensure that this e-mail and any attachment has been checked for viruses, we cannot guarantee that they are virus free and we cannot accept liability for any damage sustained as a result of software viruses. We would advise that you carry out your own virus checks, especially before opening an attachment. The UK firm Ernst & Young LLP is a limited liability partnership registered in England and Wales with registered number OC300001 and is a member practice of Ernst & Young Global. A list of members? names is available for inspection at 1 More London Place, London, SE1 2AF, the firm?s principal place of business and its registered office. From ssharkins at bellsouth.net Fri Mar 5 10:46:58 2004 From: ssharkins at bellsouth.net (Susan Harkins) Date: Fri, 5 Mar 2004 11:46:58 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Changing Data Types - URGENT In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <20040305164656.JUWI18468.imf24aec.mail.bellsouth.net@SUSANONE> ALTER TABLE table ALTER COLUMN column newtype([size]) Table must be closed, and I'm assuming you understand the risks of changing the data type, so I won't ramble on about that. Susan H. Hi All, Is there a way I can programmatically change a datatype in a field, using either VBA or SQL? From Oleg_123 at xuppa.com Fri Mar 5 10:50:20 2004 From: Oleg_123 at xuppa.com (Oleg_123 at xuppa.com) Date: Fri, 5 Mar 2004 11:50:20 -0500 (EST) Subject: [AccessD] Changing Data Types - URGENT In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <14626.63.251.87.214.1078505420.squirrel@heck.bay9.com> Ryan, using VBA you can do it throght CDate() > Charlotte. > > Access 2K. - and I would like to change a field in a table from > (whatever it is...text,numeric, etc.) to datetime. > This change will take place after the table has been created. > > TIA > Ryan > > > > > > "Charlotte Foust" > Sent by: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > 05/03/2004 16:37 > Please respond to Access Developers discussion and problem solving > > > To: "Access Developers discussion and problem solving" > > cc: > Subject: RE: [AccessD] Changing Data Types - URGENT > > > Are you asking about changing the table structure? If so, you can't do > that with a query, although you can with VBA ... And some effort. If > you provide more specifics about the Access version and what you want to > do, someone should be able to help you. > > Charlotte Foust > > -----Original Message----- > From: rsmethurst at uk.ey.com [mailto:rsmethurst at uk.ey.com] > Sent: Friday, March 05, 2004 8:22 AM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: [AccessD] Changing Data Types - URGENT > > > Hi All, > > Is there a way I can programmatically change a datatype in a field, > using > either VBA or SQL? > > TIA > Ryan > > > > This e-mail and any attachment are confidential and contain proprietary > information, some or all of which may be legally privileged. It is > intended solely for the use of the individual or entity to which it is > addressed. If you are not the intended recipient, please notify the > author immediately by telephone or by replying to this e-mail, and then > delete all copies of the e-mail on your system. If you are not the > intended recipient, you must not use, disclose, distribute, copy, print > or rely on this e-mail. > > Whilst we have taken reasonable precautions to ensure that this e-mail > and any attachment has been checked for viruses, we cannot guarantee > that they are virus free and we cannot accept liability for any damage > sustained as a result of software viruses. We would advise that you > carry out your own virus checks, especially before opening an > attachment. > > The UK firm Ernst & Young LLP is a limited liability partnership > registered in England and Wales with registered number OC300001 and is a > member practice of Ernst & Young Global. A list of members? names is > available for inspection at 1 More London Place, London, SE1 2AF, the > firm?s principal place of business and its registered office. > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > > > > This e-mail and any attachment are confidential and contain proprietary > information, some or all of which may be legally privileged. It is > intended solely for the use of the individual or entity to which it is > addressed. If you are not the intended recipient, please notify the > author immediately by telephone or by replying to this e-mail, and then > delete all copies of the e-mail on your system. If you are not the > intended recipient, you must not use, disclose, distribute, copy, print > or rely on this e-mail. > > Whilst we have taken reasonable precautions to ensure that this e-mail > and any attachment has been checked for viruses, we cannot guarantee > that they are virus free and we cannot accept liability for any damage > sustained as a result of software viruses. We would advise that you > carry out your own virus checks, especially before opening an > attachment. > > The UK firm Ernst & Young LLP is a limited liability partnership > registered in England and Wales with registered number OC300001 and is a > member practice of Ernst & Young Global. A list of members? names is > available for inspection at 1 More London Place, London, SE1 2AF, the > firm?s principal place of business and its registered office. -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com ----------------------------------------- Get Breaking News from CNN, ABC, NBC, CBS Now. http://www.xuppa.com/news/?link=webmail From pedro at plex.nl Fri Mar 5 17:52:30 2004 From: pedro at plex.nl (pedro at plex.nl) Date: Fri, 05 Mar 2004 17:52:30 (MET) Subject: [AccessD] What is MSysTables??? Message-ID: <200403051652.i25GqURM021896@mailhostC.plex.net> Hello, thank to all who responded. I know that there are hidden system tables, but wat i didn't know is that MSysTables are refering to them. I thought that this was an other table that couldn't be viewed. The Link Gustav gave me, showed me hopefully the correct answer. Pedro Janssen In antwoord op: > From: Gustav Brock > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Date: Fri, 5 Mar 2004 13:59:37 +0100 > Subject: Re: [AccessD] What is MSysTables??? > > > Hi Pedro > > You may be changing the SQL of a query. > Have a look here: > > http://dbforums.com/arch/110/2003/11/962648 > > /gustav > > > > yesterday i had a question about MSysTables permissions, but nobody responded. Is there somebody who know what MSysTables is. Are these the hidden Objects or is this another Hidden System Object > > that can't be displayed? > > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > From ggonzalez at cccis.com Fri Mar 5 10:53:47 2004 From: ggonzalez at cccis.com (ggonzalez at cccis.com) Date: Fri, 5 Mar 2004 10:53:47 -0600 Subject: [AccessD] IIF statement In-Reply-To: <22578.63.251.87.214.1078500829.squirrel@heck.bay9.com> Message-ID: Oleg, the isnull() function in SQL server works differently than in access. This function acctually does somthing when it finds a null value, i.e isNull([Ron Data mid].[SW_Date_Closed,0) this would return a 0 when it finds a null value you would want to do somthing like the following PipeLine = CASE WHEN dbo.TBLASG_PIPELINE.NOTESUNID IS NOT NULL THEN 1 ELSE 0 END, hope this helps Sent by: To: accessd-bounces at databasea cc: dvisors.com Subject: Re: [AccessD] IIF statement 03/05/2004 09:33 AM Please respond to Access Developers discussion and problem solving i get 'missing operator' error and the word WHEN is highlighted W_Date_Closed = CASE WHEN (NOT isNull([Ron Data mid].[SW_Date_Closed])) THEN [SW_Date_Closed] ELSE WHEN (NOT isNull([Ron Data mid].[OW_Date_Closed])) THEN [OW_Date_Closed] ELSE [MSS_Date_Closed] END > > > > > have you tried using a case statment > > MonthlyAmount = > CASE WHEN dbo.TBLASG_PIPELINE.PRODISYEARLY = '1' > THEN dbo.TBLASG_PIPELINE.PRODAMOUNT / 12 > ELSE dbo.TBLASG_PIPELINE.PRODAMOUNT > END > > > > > > > Sent by: > To: > > accessd-bounces at databasea cc: > > dvisors.com > Subject: [AccessD] IIF statement > > > > 03/05/2004 08:25 AM > > Please respond to Access > > Developers > discussion and > > problem solving > > > > > > > > Hey group, i am still trying to figure out how to do else in an IIF > t-sql statement > > this part works fine -- > > (IIf([Ron Data mid].DEPT In ("MSS","MID","SW","OW"),[Ron Data mid].[MS > Date Opened])) AS NewDateOpened, > > however i d'like every other department to get data from a differnt > column . How should i do it ? > > (IIf([Ron Data mid].DEPT In ("MSS","MID","SW","OW"),[Ron Data mid].[MS > Date Opened])ELSE [MID_Date_Opened]) AS NewDateOpened, > > oleg > > > ----------------------------------------- > Get Breaking News from CNN, ABC, NBC, CBS Now. > http://www.xuppa.com/news/?link=webmail > > > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com ----------------------------------------- Get Breaking News from CNN, ABC, NBC, CBS Now. http://www.xuppa.com/news/?link=webmail -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From Kenneth.Stoker at pnl.gov Fri Mar 5 10:53:05 2004 From: Kenneth.Stoker at pnl.gov (Stoker, Kenneth E) Date: Fri, 05 Mar 2004 08:53:05 -0800 Subject: [AccessD] Building up a framework Message-ID: <249C1CB246997C48BB74963CCD361C1B014A052C@pnlmse28.pnl.gov> I am interested. I vote for on-list. Ken Stoker Technology Commercialization Information Systems Administrator PH: (509) 375-3758 FAX: (509) 375-6731 E-mail: Kenneth.Stoker at pnl.gov -----Original Message----- From: John W. Colby [mailto:jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com] Sent: Thursday, March 04, 2004 7:48 PM To: AccessD Subject: [AccessD] Building up a framework I am preparing a series of articles for Many-to-Many on building a framework. I have a very basic framework started with the clsFW class, dclsFrm and dclsTextBox, as well as Sysvars and a couple of service classes, ZIP and Unzip. I will throw in a few more like some encryption classes. AFAICT this much is functioning, I can load a form, the form scanner finds all text boxes and loads a class for each, the SysVars function etc. Many to Many only publishes every 2 months or so. A series of articles will take 6 months to a year to get out. There is going to be a LOT of code, and some pretty in-depth discussions of collections, Classes / setup, teardown and debugging, Withevents, service classes and all the other stuff that goes into my framework. The end result will be a fully functioning if still rather basic application framework. My question to the group is, should I hold a discussion of the framework, how it is built, why I do this stuff and so forth on this list, or take it off to another list for only those interested? John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From rsmethurst at UK.EY.COM Fri Mar 5 10:53:04 2004 From: rsmethurst at UK.EY.COM (rsmethurst at UK.EY.COM) Date: Fri, 5 Mar 2004 16:53:04 +0000 Subject: [AccessD] Changing Data Types - URGENT Message-ID: Thanks Susan, Yip well aware! Will be sorting out a proper solution that will update the import function to take care of this..but for now that is exactly what I want! Many thanks Ryan "Susan Harkins" Sent by: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com 05/03/2004 16:46 Please respond to Access Developers discussion and problem solving To: "'Access Developers discussion and problem solving'" cc: Subject: RE: [AccessD] Changing Data Types - URGENT ALTER TABLE table ALTER COLUMN column newtype([size]) Table must be closed, and I'm assuming you understand the risks of changing the data type, so I won't ramble on about that. Susan H. Hi All, Is there a way I can programmatically change a datatype in a field, using either VBA or SQL? -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com This e-mail and any attachment are confidential and contain proprietary information, some or all of which may be legally privileged. It is intended solely for the use of the individual or entity to which it is addressed. If you are not the intended recipient, please notify the author immediately by telephone or by replying to this e-mail, and then delete all copies of the e-mail on your system. If you are not the intended recipient, you must not use, disclose, distribute, copy, print or rely on this e-mail. Whilst we have taken reasonable precautions to ensure that this e-mail and any attachment has been checked for viruses, we cannot guarantee that they are virus free and we cannot accept liability for any damage sustained as a result of software viruses. We would advise that you carry out your own virus checks, especially before opening an attachment. The UK firm Ernst & Young LLP is a limited liability partnership registered in England and Wales with registered number OC300001 and is a member practice of Ernst & Young Global. A list of members? names is available for inspection at 1 More London Place, London, SE1 2AF, the firm?s principal place of business and its registered office. From rl_stewart at highstream.net Fri Mar 5 10:57:03 2004 From: rl_stewart at highstream.net (Robert L. Stewart) Date: Fri, 05 Mar 2004 10:57:03 -0600 Subject: [AccessD] Fwd: Re: filtercode permissions Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20040305105621.02a70270@pop3.highstream.net> Pedro, Here is what I sent directly to you yesterday. Robert >Date: Thu, 04 Mar 2004 15:25:14 -0600 >To: "Pedro Janssen" >From: "Robert L. Stewart" >Subject: Re: filtercode permissions > >I guess it is giving you that because you are replacing the SQL statement >in the query. To be honest, I refuse to deal with Access security. I >have never found a database where they could really justify the use of it >or were willing to maintain it for themselves. Now, to answer you >question. When you go to tools | options, you can show hidden and system >objects. After you do that, go to the security portion of the program and >see if you can set permissions for it there. Otherwise try setting the >permissions in the query design to run with owners permissions. > >Sorry that I cannot help you more, but security is not something I will >deal with...too complex. I would rather concentrate on good design rather >than security which the user is responsible for. > >Robert > >At 08:10 PM 3/4/2004 +0100, you wrote: >>Hello Stewart, >> >>ou helped me with the filtercode below. >>When entering he search value and clicking the commandbutton, >>everything works fine when logged in as person with administrator >>permissions. >>When logged in as user i ge an error: "Error 3033. You don't have >>permissions for Object MSysTables". >>When clicking the debugger, the following codeline is highlighted yellow: >>qdf.SQL = strSql & strWhere >> >>Do you know how this is possible or where i can't find MSysTables? >> >From all the hidden objects i changed allready the permissions, but no >>result. >> >>Thanks >> >>Pedro Janssen >> >> >> >> >>----- Original Message ----- >>From: "Robert L. Stewart" >>To: "Pedro Janssen" >>Sent: Monday, February 23, 2004 4:17 PM >>Subject: Re: need help with filter code >> >> >> > Pedro, >> > >> > Use this code and it will work smoothly. >> > >> > Robert >> > >> > >> > Dim db As DAO.Database >> > Dim qdf As DAO.QueryDef >> > Dim strSql As String >> > Dim strWhere As String >> > Set db = CurrentDb() >> > Set qdf = db.QueryDefs("sqry_AannZoeken_0") >> > ' verwijderd de ; van het einde van de query string >> > strSql = Mid(qdf.SQL, 1, Len(qdf.SQL) - 3) >> > strWhere = " WHERE (" >> > ' maakt de string voor de 6 aannemers waarin gezocht wordt >> > strWhere = strWhere & "(Aann1 Like '*" & Me!txtAannSearch & "*') OR" >> > strWhere = strWhere & "(Aann2 Like '*" & Me!txtAannSearch & "*') OR" >> > strWhere = strWhere & "(Aann3 Like '*" & Me!txtAannSearch & "*') OR" >> > strWhere = strWhere & "(Aann4 Like '*" & Me!txtAannSearch & "*') OR" >> > strWhere = strWhere & "(Aann5 Like '*" & Me!txtAannSearch & "*') OR" >> > strWhere = strWhere & "(Aann6 Like '*" & Me!txtAannSearch & "*'));" >> > Set qdf = db.QueryDefs("sqry_AannZoeken_1") >> > qdf.SQL = strSql & strWhere >> > db.Close >> > Set db = Nothing >> > DoCmd.Echo False >> > Dim strFormName As String >> > strFormName = Me.Name >> > Application.RunCommand acCmdClose >> > DoCmd.OpenForm strFormName >> > DoCmd.Echo True >> > >> > At 11:05 PM 2/21/2004 +0100, you wrote: >> > >Hello Robert, >> > > >> > >here is the stripped database. I'll only left the objects that >> > >are needed for the search. >> > > >> > >The search works in the query, but the form doesn't give the >> > >filtered results immediately. Only after closing and reopening >> > >the form. >> > > >> > >I tried to me.requery, me.refresch, form.requery, form.refresh, >> > >repaintobject in the code, but nothing works. Something >> > >i am doing wrong? >> > > >> > >Thanks for looking at it. >> > > >> > >Pedro Janssen >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > >----- Original Message ----- >> > >From: "Robert L. Stewart" >> > >To: >> > >Sent: Friday, February 20, 2004 7:09 PM >> > >Subject: Re: need help with filter code >> > > >> > > >> > > > Pedro, >> > > > >> > > > Can you send me a copy top look at >> > > > with the minimum of tables, queries, >> > > > and forms? >> > > > >> > > > Robert >> > > > >> > > > At 12:00 PM 2/20/2004 -0600, you wrote: >> > > > >Date: Fri, 20 Feb 2004 14:43:07 (MET) >> > > > >From: pedro at plex.nl >> > > > >Subject: Re: [AccessD] Re: need help with filter code >> > > > >To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com >> > > > >Cc: rl_stewart at highstream.net >> > > > >Message-ID: <200402201343.i1KDh7RM028562 at mailhostC.plex.net> >> > > > > >> > > > >Hello Robert, >> > > > > >> > > > >the form is based on the _1 query, and i allready places me.requery >>in >> > >the >> > > > >code , between the last line of code you gave me and the End Sub. >> > > > > >> > > > >Pedro Janssen >> > > > >> > > > >> > > > >> > >> > >> > From rl_stewart at highstream.net Fri Mar 5 11:02:17 2004 From: rl_stewart at highstream.net (Robert L. Stewart) Date: Fri, 05 Mar 2004 11:02:17 -0600 Subject: [AccessD] Re: IIF statement In-Reply-To: <200403051515.i25FFbM30225@databaseadvisors.com> Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20040305105853.029334c8@pop3.highstream.net> Oleg, The ELSE part is the FALSE portion. IIF( Date() = #03/06/2004#, "Today, "Tomorrow") If Date() = #03/06/2004# then "Today" ELSE "Tomorrow" End if Of course you can keep expanding it, but if I go beyond a simple IIF like the one above, I usually write a function for it so the logic is easier to follow later. Robert At 09:15 AM 3/5/2004 -0600, you wrote: >Date: Fri, 5 Mar 2004 09:25:36 -0500 (EST) >From: >Subject: [AccessD] IIF statement >To: >Message-ID: <36622.63.251.87.214.1078496736.squirrel at heck.bay9.com> >Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 > >Hey group, i am still trying to figure out how to do else in an IIF t-sql >statement > >this part works fine -- > > (IIf([Ron Data mid].DEPT In ("MSS","MID","SW","OW"),[Ron Data mid].[MS >Date Opened])) AS NewDateOpened, > >however i d'like every other department to get data from a differnt column >. How should i do it ? > > (IIf([Ron Data mid].DEPT In ("MSS","MID","SW","OW"),[Ron Data mid].[MS >Date Opened])ELSE [MID_Date_Opened]) AS NewDateOpened, > >oleg From rl_stewart at highstream.net Fri Mar 5 11:08:30 2004 From: rl_stewart at highstream.net (Robert L. Stewart) Date: Fri, 05 Mar 2004 11:08:30 -0600 Subject: [AccessD] Re: IIF statement In-Reply-To: <200403051515.i25FFbM30225@databaseadvisors.com> Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20040305110243.029e3200@pop3.highstream.net> If it is T-SQL, then you will have to use the CASE statement because there is no IIF in it. SELECT Dept, [MS Date Opened], MID_Date_Opened, CASE WHEN Dept = 'MSS' THEN [MS Date Opened] WHEN Dept = 'MID' THEN [MS Date Opened] WHEN Dept = 'SW' THEN [MS Date Opened] WHEN Dept = 'OW' THEN [MS Date Opened] ELSE MID_Date_Opened END AS NewDateOpened FROM [Ron Data mid] Oleg, you really need to get rid of the spaces in your column and table names!!!!!! Robert At 09:15 AM 3/5/2004 -0600, you wrote: >Date: Fri, 5 Mar 2004 15:35:07 +0100 >From: Gustav Brock >Subject: Re: [AccessD] IIF statement >To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > >Message-ID: <323397654.20040305153507 at cactus.dk> >Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii > >Hi Oleg > >Don't know much about T-SQL but how about this: > > (IIf([Ron Data mid].DEPT In ("MSS","MID","SW","OW"), > [Ron Data mid].[MS Date Opened]), [MID_Date_Opened]) > AS NewDateOpened, > > >/gustav From rl_stewart at highstream.net Fri Mar 5 11:15:48 2004 From: rl_stewart at highstream.net (Robert L. Stewart) Date: Fri, 05 Mar 2004 11:15:48 -0600 Subject: [AccessD] Re: Don't append if data exist In-Reply-To: <200403051654.i25Gs4M15463@databaseadvisors.com> Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20040305111439.02a7f3b8@pop3.highstream.net> Create a unique index on the two columns. This will keep a new record from being added. Robert At 10:54 AM 3/5/2004 -0600, you wrote: >Date: Fri, 5 Mar 2004 07:48:41 -0800 (PST) >From: Lonnie Johnson >Subject: [AccessD] Don't append if data exist >To: "'MS-ACCESS-L at lists.missouri.edu'" , > AccessDevelopers , ms_access > , "AccessD solving'" > >Message-ID: <20040305154841.28969.qmail at web20413.mail.yahoo.com> >Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii > > >I have a query that runs every morning. It appends records to a table if a >DISCHARGE DATE falls within the current month. Each day it will duplicate >records for a CLEINT. How do I NOT append a record if BOTH the CLIENT >NUMBER and the same DISCHARGE DATE exist. Note it is possible for a person >to be discharged twice in one month. That is ok as long as the dates are >different. > >I can't seem to think this through. > >Please help me think today From Oleg_123 at xuppa.com Fri Mar 5 11:54:41 2004 From: Oleg_123 at xuppa.com (Oleg_123 at xuppa.com) Date: Fri, 5 Mar 2004 12:54:41 -0500 (EST) Subject: [AccessD] Re: IIF statement In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.2.20040305110243.029e3200@pop3.highstream.net> References: <200403051515.i25FFbM30225@databaseadvisors.com> <5.1.0.14.2.20040305110243.029e3200@pop3.highstream.net> Message-ID: <57984.63.251.87.214.1078509281.squirrel@heck.bay9.com> Oleg, you really need to get rid of the spaces in your column and table names!!!!!! > > Robert > :)) I am not the one who comes up with those names, thats what management wants > > > At 09:15 AM 3/5/2004 -0600, you wrote: >>Date: Fri, 5 Mar 2004 15:35:07 +0100 >>From: Gustav Brock >>Subject: Re: [AccessD] IIF statement >>To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving >> >>Message-ID: <323397654.20040305153507 at cactus.dk> >>Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii >> >>Hi Oleg >> >>Don't know much about T-SQL but how about this: >> >> (IIf([Ron Data mid].DEPT In ("MSS","MID","SW","OW"), >> [Ron Data mid].[MS Date Opened]), [MID_Date_Opened]) >> AS NewDateOpened, >> >> >>/gustav > > > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com ----------------------------------------- Get Breaking News from CNN, ABC, NBC, CBS Now. http://www.xuppa.com/news/?link=webmail From Oleg_123 at xuppa.com Fri Mar 5 12:04:40 2004 From: Oleg_123 at xuppa.com (Oleg_123 at xuppa.com) Date: Fri, 5 Mar 2004 13:04:40 -0500 (EST) Subject: [AccessD] IIF statement - one more question In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.2.20040305110243.029e3200@pop3.highstream.net> References: <200403051515.i25FFbM30225@databaseadvisors.com> <5.1.0.14.2.20040305110243.029e3200@pop3.highstream.net> Message-ID: <28880.63.251.87.214.1078509880.squirrel@heck.bay9.com> (IIf((DEPT In ("MSS","SW","OW") ),W_Date_Closed,[MID Advice Closed])) AS NewDateClosed one more question on IIF statemnts, the one above works fine however if i try to add one more condition (and Disposition <> "REF MID") it ignores everything where dsposition field is NULL. shouls i write something like ((DEPT In ("MSS","SW","OW") and Disposition <> "REF MID" or Disposition isNULL) ? (IIf((DEPT In ("MSS","SW","OW") and Disposition <> "REF MID"),W_Date_Closed,[MID Advice Closed])) AS NewDateClosed ----------------------------------------- Get Breaking News from CNN, ABC, NBC, CBS Now. http://www.xuppa.com/news/?link=webmail From DWUTKA at marlow.com Fri Mar 5 12:25:09 2004 From: DWUTKA at marlow.com (DWUTKA at marlow.com) Date: Fri, 5 Mar 2004 12:25:09 -0600 Subject: [AccessD] Archives - no scroll bar Message-ID: <2F8793082E00D4119A1700B0D0216BF802227948@main2.marlow.com> Don't sweat it. It was a spam/pop-up blocker that was the issue. (I think...) Drew -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Jim Lawrence (AccessD) Sent: Thursday, March 04, 2004 8:08 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] Archives - no scroll bar Hi Drew: I will take close look...but never had any problems specifically; but things have been moved around and something may have been over-looked... Keep you posted. Jim -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of DWUTKA at marlow.com Sent: Wednesday, March 03, 2004 8:53 AM To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: RE: [AccessD] Archives - no scroll bar Okay, we need to ask Jim to look at his code, that is sending you to the Archives. He is probably using the open statement, and not implicitly including the scrollbars argument. I've seen that do funny things before, where one browser will work fine, and another goes goofy. (Even same type of browser...it just depends on the settings in the browser). Drew -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Bobby Heid Sent: Wednesday, March 03, 2004 8:15 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: [AccessD] Archives - no scroll bar Works correctly when I go directly there. Thanks, Bobby -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of DWUTKA at marlow.com Sent: Tuesday, March 02, 2004 6:20 PM To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: RE: [AccessD] Archives - no scroll bar Bobby, try going directly to the searchable archives. http://www.wolfwares.com/AccessD Do your search there. If you still have no scroll bars, let me know. If you do have them, then we need to let Jim Lawrence know. He may have used a script, that is opening my site in a new window, that doesn't have a flag set for scrollbars. Drew -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Bobby Heid Sent: Tuesday, March 02, 2004 1:48 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: [AccessD] Archives - no scroll bar Hi Bryan, I went to http://www.databaseadvisors.com and clicked on the archive link on the left side of the screen. I entered my search term at: http://www.databaseadvisors.com/archive/archive.htm I then entered my search term and clicked on the little "Go" button. This takes me to the AccessD Archives with a howling wolf in the upper left hand corner. Still no scrollbars this time either. Thanks, Bobby -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Bryan Carbonnell Sent: Tuesday, March 02, 2004 1:32 PM To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: RE: [AccessD] Archives - no scroll bar Not on databaseadvisors.com either. The archives there are not searchable yet. Bobby, where did you search from? Bryan Carbonnell bryan_carbonnell at cbc.ca >>> DWUTKA at marlow.com 02-Mar-04 1:22:23 PM >>> Not on the archives on my site. Just checked, and the scroll bars were there. Drew -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Bobby Heid Sent: Tuesday, March 02, 2004 7:52 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: [AccessD] Archives - no scroll bar Hey all, I was searching the archives for something and it had a lot of hits. But since there was no scroll bar, I had to press the tab key to move to each entry. I could not page down or use the mouse wheel either. This is in IE 6.0.28, windows 2k. Is this by design? Thanks, Bobby -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From DWUTKA at marlow.com Fri Mar 5 12:25:59 2004 From: DWUTKA at marlow.com (DWUTKA at marlow.com) Date: Fri, 5 Mar 2004 12:25:59 -0600 Subject: [AccessD] Drew - Age of the Archives? Message-ID: <2F8793082E00D4119A1700B0D0216BF802227949@main2.marlow.com> The Story of Drew's Life: The Hell years! LOL Sorry, couldn't resist! Drew -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Jim Lawrence (AccessD) Sent: Thursday, March 04, 2004 8:08 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] Drew - Age of the Archives? OT Hi Drew: You should write a book. What great material. Jim -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of DWUTKA at marlow.com Sent: Wednesday, March 03, 2004 8:47 AM To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: RE: [AccessD] Drew - Age of the Archives? Hmmmm, let's work backwards. I know that the archives stopping archiving this past August/September (2003), because that's when I separated from Tammy. I know the archives started using the 'Memo Field Indexing' in April of 2003, because that is when my apartment caught fire. I know I moved the archives from Marlow to my home in early January of 2003, because my DSL company went bankrupt and pulled the plug on their network then. I have no clue when I actually 'started' the archives, other then a wild guess at about 6 months before I moved it home. So I would say July or August of 2002. Drew (Interesting timeline, eh?) -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of John Bartow Sent: Tuesday, March 02, 2004 9:00 PM To: _DBA-Access Subject: [AccessD] Drew - Age of the Archives? Drew, Someone recently asked me how long I have been on this list. The only point of reference I could think of was about two years before I sent all my archives to Drew! So, Do you know when you put the archives together on your site? John "My memory is 40 years ahead of it time (I have a like I'm over 80)" Bartow -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From DWUTKA at marlow.com Fri Mar 5 12:27:05 2004 From: DWUTKA at marlow.com (DWUTKA at marlow.com) Date: Fri, 5 Mar 2004 12:27:05 -0600 Subject: [AccessD] OT - Hit counter for web pages Message-ID: <2F8793082E00D4119A1700B0D0216BF80222794A@main2.marlow.com> John, I have to ask. Are you running your own webserver? I thought you were. If you are running an IIS server, you can have it log to an Access database. No need for a hit counter, it will track everything for you! Drew -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of John W. Colby Sent: Thursday, March 04, 2004 9:46 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] OT - Hit counter for web pages So that I can see which pages are visited and how often. John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Stephen Hait Sent: Thursday, March 04, 2004 10:37 PM To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: Re: [AccessD] OT - Hit counter for web pages > Does anyone have a hit counter that I can just cut and paste code > into my web page? Shows my ignorance I know but I need something > that will do that for me. I need a hit counter for each page, > visible on the page itself. > > John W. Colby Just curious - why do you need a hit counter on every page of your web site? For your information? For the benefit of your visitors? Something else? Depending on your goals, there may be other alternatives. Regards, Stephen -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From rl_stewart at highstream.net Fri Mar 5 12:29:22 2004 From: rl_stewart at highstream.net (Robert L. Stewart) Date: Fri, 05 Mar 2004 12:29:22 -0600 Subject: [AccessD] Re: IIF statement In-Reply-To: <200403051800.i25I0XM29782@databaseadvisors.com> Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20040305122840.029ab9c0@pop3.highstream.net> Then give them a view/query that shows them what they ask for and do it the right way in the base tables. At 12:00 PM 3/5/2004 -0600, you wrote: >Date: Fri, 5 Mar 2004 12:54:41 -0500 (EST) >From: >Subject: Re: [AccessD] Re: IIF statement >To: >Message-ID: <57984.63.251.87.214.1078509281.squirrel at heck.bay9.com> >Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 > > Oleg, you really need to get rid of the spaces in your column and table > names!!!!!! > > > > Robert > > >:)) I am not the one who comes up with those names, thats what management >wants From DWUTKA at marlow.com Fri Mar 5 12:29:52 2004 From: DWUTKA at marlow.com (DWUTKA at marlow.com) Date: Fri, 5 Mar 2004 12:29:52 -0600 Subject: [AccessD] Export to Mutiple Excel Sheets Message-ID: <2F8793082E00D4119A1700B0D0216BF80222794B@main2.marlow.com> ADO works quite well too, just doesn't do the formatting. However, if you format a 'blank' Excel spreadsheet, that works well. Still doesn't handle 'conditional' formatting then, unless you put that into excel itself. Drew -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of J?rgen Welz Sent: Thursday, March 04, 2004 11:46 PM To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: Re: [AccessD] Export to Mutiple Excel Sheets Although DoCmd.TransferSpreadsheet will create a sheet for each named query or table that you export to a file at a target path, my predisposition to keep it simple and fast is circumscribed by constraints of reliability, error management, data validation and format control that dictate Excel automation. If you're just dumping a bunch of pure text and integers into a sheet, no problem. If you've got strings like '02E234', Excel will arbitrarily assume that it is a number in exponential notation and I've had that kind of issue bite me from time to time in the past. Using automation, you can insert sheets in a particular order, set column widths, row heights, sorts, filters, do conditional formatting, name ranges, set titles, headers, protection .... My export/imort needs have never been met by the docmd methods, but if all I needed was a portable emailable snapshot of predictably transferable data, I would consider those methods. Ciao J?rgen Welz Edmonton, Alberta jwelz at hotmail.com >From: >Reply-To: Access Developers discussion and problem >solving >To: >Subject: Re: [AccessD] Export to Mutiple Excel Sheets >Date: Thu, 4 Mar 2004 23:20:37 -0500 (EST) >MIME-Version: 1.0 >Received: from mc2-f12.hotmail.com ([65.54.190.19]) by mc2-s17.hotmail.com >with Microsoft SMTPSVC(5.0.2195.6824); Thu, 4 Mar 2004 20:22:01 -0800 >Received: from databaseadvisors.com ([209.135.140.44]) by >mc2-f12.hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC(5.0.2195.6824); Thu, 4 Mar 2004 >20:21:05 -0800 >Received: from databaseadvisors.com (databaseadvisors.com >[209.135.140.44])by databaseadvisors.com (8.11.6/8.11.6) with ESMTP id >i254KaM02761;Thu, 4 Mar 2004 22:20:36 -0600 >Received: from heck.bay9.com ([66.28.60.200])by databaseadvisors.com >(8.11.6/8.11.6) with ESMTP id i254KUM02705for >; Thu, 4 Mar 2004 22:20:31 -0600 >Received: from xuppa.com (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1])by >heck.bay9.com (Postfix) with SMTP id CCBDA5B500for >;Thu, 4 Mar 2004 23:20:37 -0500 (EST) >Received: from 24.187.36.171 (proxying for unknown)(SquirrelMail >authenticated user Oleg_123)by heck.bay9.com with HTTP; Thu, 4 Mar 2004 >23:20:37 -0500 (EST) >X-Message-Info: jl7Vrt/mfspXc7/cLcma3MAwjiq6mK2F >Message-ID: <3049.24.187.36.171.1078460437.squirrel at heck.bay9.com> >In-Reply-To: >References: >X-Mailer: SquirrelMail (version 1.2.10) >X-BeenThere: accessd at databaseadvisors.com >X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.4 >Precedence: list >List-Id: Access Developers discussion and problem >solving >List-Help: >List-Post: >List-Subscribe: >, >List-Archive: >List-Unsubscribe: >, >Errors-To: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com >Return-Path: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com >X-OriginalArrivalTime: 05 Mar 2004 04:21:05.0359 (UTC) >FILETIME=[46AA15F0:01C40269] > >Mark, > >I thought that its possible to specify sheets in export macro; is it so ? > > > Hello All, > > > > I need to build an export/import function into an A97 db...I want to > > export/import 2 query results...1 to each sheet in a new excel workbook. > > Any suggestions/directions to head? > > > > Thanks, > > > > Mark A. Matte > > > > _________________________________________________________________ > > Fast. Reliable. Get MSN 9 Dial-up - 3 months for the price of 1! > > (Limited-time Offer) > > http://click.atdmt.com/AVE/go/onm00200361ave/direct/01/ > > > > -- > > _______________________________________________ > > AccessD mailing list > > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > >----------------------------------------- >Get Breaking News from CNN, ABC, NBC, CBS Now. >http://www.xuppa.com/news/?link=webmail > > >-- >_______________________________________________ >AccessD mailing list >AccessD at databaseadvisors.com >http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd >Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com _________________________________________________________________ MSN Premium: Up to 11 personalized e-mail addresses and 2 months FREE* http://join.msn.com/?pgmarket=en-ca&page=byoa/prem&xAPID=1994&DI=1034&SU=htt p://hotmail.com/enca&HL=Market_MSNIS_Taglines -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From rl_stewart at highstream.net Fri Mar 5 12:30:59 2004 From: rl_stewart at highstream.net (Robert L. Stewart) Date: Fri, 05 Mar 2004 12:30:59 -0600 Subject: [AccessD] Re: IIF statement Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20040305123008.02981a90@pop3.highstream.net> Then give them a view/query that shows them what they ask for and do it the right way in the base tables. Oh yeah, one more thing. NO is a valid answer and they will usually go with that when you give them an explanation. At 12:00 PM 3/5/2004 -0600, you wrote: >Date: Fri, 5 Mar 2004 12:54:41 -0500 (EST) >From: >Subject: Re: [AccessD] Re: IIF statement >To: >Message-ID: <57984.63.251.87.214.1078509281.squirrel at heck.bay9.com> >Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 > > Oleg, you really need to get rid of the spaces in your column and table > names!!!!!! > > > > Robert > > >:)) I am not the one who comes up with those names, thats what management >wants From lists at theopg.com Fri Mar 5 12:32:37 2004 From: lists at theopg.com (MarkH) Date: Fri, 5 Mar 2004 18:32:37 -0000 Subject: [AccessD] Re: IIF statement In-Reply-To: <57984.63.251.87.214.1078509281.squirrel@heck.bay9.com> Message-ID: <000001c402e0$3c476be0$298e6351@netboxxp> If "management" knows what it wants then there is usually some sort of misunderstanding :O) mark -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Oleg_123 at xuppa.com Sent: 05 March 2004 17:55 To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: Re: [AccessD] Re: IIF statement Oleg, you really need to get rid of the spaces in your column and table names!!!!!! > > Robert > :)) I am not the one who comes up with those names, thats what management wants > > > At 09:15 AM 3/5/2004 -0600, you wrote: >>Date: Fri, 5 Mar 2004 15:35:07 +0100 >>From: Gustav Brock >>Subject: Re: [AccessD] IIF statement >>To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving >> >>Message-ID: <323397654.20040305153507 at cactus.dk> >>Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii >> >>Hi Oleg >> >>Don't know much about T-SQL but how about this: >> >> (IIf([Ron Data mid].DEPT In ("MSS","MID","SW","OW"), >> [Ron Data mid].[MS Date Opened]), [MID_Date_Opened]) >> AS NewDateOpened, >> >> >>/gustav > > > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com ----------------------------------------- Get Breaking News from CNN, ABC, NBC, CBS Now. http://www.xuppa.com/news/?link=webmail -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From bheid at appdevgrp.com Fri Mar 5 12:46:39 2004 From: bheid at appdevgrp.com (Bobby Heid) Date: Fri, 5 Mar 2004 13:46:39 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Archives - no scroll bar In-Reply-To: <916187228923D311A6FE00A0CC3FAA307B80A8@ADGSERVER> Message-ID: <916187228923D311A6FE00A0CC3FAA305BB30B@ADGSERVER> It appeared to be that, but when I re-enabled it, it continued working. It seems to not bother anyone else, so I agree, no need to put yourself through a lot of work in addition to all of the work already done for the archives. Thanks, Bobby -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of DWUTKA at marlow.com Sent: Friday, March 05, 2004 1:25 PM To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: RE: [AccessD] Archives - no scroll bar Don't sweat it. It was a spam/pop-up blocker that was the issue. (I think...) Drew -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Jim Lawrence (AccessD) Sent: Thursday, March 04, 2004 8:08 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] Archives - no scroll bar Hi Drew: I will take close look...but never had any problems specifically; but things have been moved around and something may have been over-looked... Keep you posted. Jim -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of DWUTKA at marlow.com Sent: Wednesday, March 03, 2004 8:53 AM To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: RE: [AccessD] Archives - no scroll bar Okay, we need to ask Jim to look at his code, that is sending you to the Archives. He is probably using the open statement, and not implicitly including the scrollbars argument. I've seen that do funny things before, where one browser will work fine, and another goes goofy. (Even same type of browser...it just depends on the settings in the browser). Drew -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Bobby Heid Sent: Wednesday, March 03, 2004 8:15 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: [AccessD] Archives - no scroll bar Works correctly when I go directly there. Thanks, Bobby -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of DWUTKA at marlow.com Sent: Tuesday, March 02, 2004 6:20 PM To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: RE: [AccessD] Archives - no scroll bar Bobby, try going directly to the searchable archives. http://www.wolfwares.com/AccessD Do your search there. If you still have no scroll bars, let me know. If you do have them, then we need to let Jim Lawrence know. He may have used a script, that is opening my site in a new window, that doesn't have a flag set for scrollbars. Drew -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Bobby Heid Sent: Tuesday, March 02, 2004 1:48 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: [AccessD] Archives - no scroll bar Hi Bryan, I went to http://www.databaseadvisors.com and clicked on the archive link on the left side of the screen. I entered my search term at: http://www.databaseadvisors.com/archive/archive.htm I then entered my search term and clicked on the little "Go" button. This takes me to the AccessD Archives with a howling wolf in the upper left hand corner. Still no scrollbars this time either. Thanks, Bobby -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Bryan Carbonnell Sent: Tuesday, March 02, 2004 1:32 PM To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: RE: [AccessD] Archives - no scroll bar Not on databaseadvisors.com either. The archives there are not searchable yet. Bobby, where did you search from? Bryan Carbonnell bryan_carbonnell at cbc.ca >>> DWUTKA at marlow.com 02-Mar-04 1:22:23 PM >>> Not on the archives on my site. Just checked, and the scroll bars were there. Drew -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Bobby Heid Sent: Tuesday, March 02, 2004 7:52 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: [AccessD] Archives - no scroll bar Hey all, I was searching the archives for something and it had a lot of hits. But since there was no scroll bar, I had to press the tab key to move to each entry. I could not page down or use the mouse wheel either. This is in IE 6.0.28, windows 2k. Is this by design? Thanks, Bobby -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From Oleg_123 at xuppa.com Fri Mar 5 13:11:02 2004 From: Oleg_123 at xuppa.com (Oleg_123 at xuppa.com) Date: Fri, 5 Mar 2004 14:11:02 -0500 (EST) Subject: [AccessD] Re: IIF statement In-Reply-To: <000001c402e0$3c476be0$298e6351@netboxxp> References: <57984.63.251.87.214.1078509281.squirrel@heck.bay9.com> <000001c402e0$3c476be0$298e6351@netboxxp> Message-ID: <23590.63.251.87.214.1078513862.squirrel@heck.bay9.com> They do not know what they want as a final picture, but as for details (such as column naemes, table names etc) they want long descriptive names with spaces (luckily they don't see how I name command buttons and things like that) > If "management" knows what it wants then there is usually some sort of > misunderstanding :O) > > mark > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of > Oleg_123 at xuppa.com > Sent: 05 March 2004 17:55 > To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com > Subject: Re: [AccessD] Re: IIF statement > > > Oleg, you really need to get rid of the spaces in your column and table > names!!!!!! >> >> Robert >> > :)) I am not the one who comes up with those names, thats what > management wants > > > >> >> >> At 09:15 AM 3/5/2004 -0600, you wrote: >>>Date: Fri, 5 Mar 2004 15:35:07 +0100 >>>From: Gustav Brock >>>Subject: Re: [AccessD] IIF statement >>>To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving >>> >>>Message-ID: <323397654.20040305153507 at cactus.dk> >>>Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii >>> >>>Hi Oleg >>> >>>Don't know much about T-SQL but how about this: >>> >>> (IIf([Ron Data mid].DEPT In ("MSS","MID","SW","OW"), >>> [Ron Data mid].[MS Date Opened]), [MID_Date_Opened]) >>> AS NewDateOpened, >>> >>> >>>/gustav >> >> >> -- >> _______________________________________________ >> AccessD mailing list >> AccessD at databaseadvisors.com >> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd >> Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > ----------------------------------------- > Get Breaking News from CNN, ABC, NBC, CBS Now. > http://www.xuppa.com/news/?link=webmail > > > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com ----------------------------------------- Get Breaking News from CNN, ABC, NBC, CBS Now. http://www.xuppa.com/news/?link=webmail From dw-murphy at cox.net Fri Mar 5 13:17:18 2004 From: dw-murphy at cox.net (Doug Murphy) Date: Fri, 5 Mar 2004 11:17:18 -0800 Subject: [AccessD] Deployment In-Reply-To: <01c401c40226$b007f1e0$6801a8c0@HAL9002> Message-ID: <000201c402e6$79dc4970$8500a8c0@CX615377a> Hi Rocky, No I have not used the XP Developer packaging functionality. I did use the package and deployment capability in Office 97 when our product was using Access 97. After much research and making all the patches to fix known problems with the packaging wizard I had no problems with our deployments. I guess the question is what are you going to do your final packaging and deployment in. You might as well use that to get experience with it and find any problems early on. Doug Douglas Murphy Murphy's Creativity (619) 334-5121 doug at murphyscreativity.com www.murphyscreativity.com -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Rocky Smolin - Beach Access Software Sent: Thursday, March 04, 2004 12:24 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Deployment Doug: Have you ever used the XP deployment itself? Rocky ----- Original Message ----- From: "Doug Murphy" To: "'Access Developers discussion and problem solving'" Sent: Thursday, March 04, 2004 9:58 AM Subject: RE: [AccessD] Deployment > Hi Rocky, > > I have done several install packages using XP Deveoper, Wise and > Sagekey and the package is usually a little less than 60 Meg. If your > users have high speed connections this isn't too bad to download. > Could be painfull over a dial up connection. > > Doug > > Douglas Murphy > Murphy's Creativity > (619) 334-5121 > doug at murphyscreativity.com > www.murphyscreativity.com > > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Rocky > Smolin > - Beach Access Software > Sent: Wednesday, March 03, 2004 7:56 AM > To: AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > Subject: [AccessD] Deployment > > > Dear List: > > I've got an app I'm developing for the consumer market and we're in > beta testing now. It's in A2K so all the betas have to have Access. > > Eventually it will have to be packaged as a run-time. But at that > point it will be shrink-wrapped. > > In the short term we could expand our beta testing universe with a > run-time. So I'm trying to figure out the best way to do this. > > The problem AFAIK with the run-times is their size. Right now we can > email the mde to a beta tester and it's about 3-4MB. If I put up a > run-time on my web site, beta testers are not likely to know how to do > an FTP program. > > I suppose I could make a password protected folder on my web site, and > get my web site developer to make the run-time downloadable or > installable from the site. I don't know how to do this. Maybe she > does. > > I've got A97 developer's edition, Wise Installer, and the Sagekey > script for A97. But I don't think that the app can be converted back > to A97. In any event, the total A97/Wise/Sagekey package runs to about > 70MB IIRC. > > I could buy A2002 or A2003 if they've got a better deployment > capability than they've had in the past. > > What are your recommendations, suggestions, thoughts? > > Thanks in advance, > > Rocky Smolin > Beach Access Software > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From rusty.hammond at cpiqpc.com Fri Mar 5 14:54:05 2004 From: rusty.hammond at cpiqpc.com (rusty.hammond at cpiqpc.com) Date: Fri, 5 Mar 2004 14:54:05 -0600 Subject: [AccessD] Analyze it with Excel Message-ID: <8301C8A868251E4C8ECD3D4FFEA40F8A0811A957@cpixchng-1.cpiqpc.net> I'm exporting an Access 97 report to excel. This report has two grouping levels. Management likes the feature of expanding/collapsing the groups in the excel spreadsheet but there is one annoying thing. The names of the fields in each group footer (which are totals) are showing up in the spreadsheet and making the totals for a column offset from the data that makes up the total. Has anyone come up with a way to suppress those printing? TIA Rusty Hammond From davesharpe2 at cox.net Fri Mar 5 17:02:26 2004 From: davesharpe2 at cox.net (Dave Sharpe) Date: Fri, 5 Mar 2004 18:02:26 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Export to Mutiple Excel Sheets References: Message-ID: <00c601c40305$ed3a3070$dd2f0a44@bcsext6137> Mark Here is some code I use. ExportFileName is the xls, it remains the same. ExportTableName , is for the query name ( request and shipment in the example ) ==================================== 'export the data ExportTableName = "bcs_requests_to_shipments" ExportFileName = "J:\SHARED\bcs_acct\" & dasDate & _ "bcs_requests_to_shipments" DoCmd.TransferSpreadsheet acExport, 8, ExportTableName, ExportFileName, True, "" ExportTableName = "bcs_orders_to_shipments" ExportFileName = "J:\SHARED\bcs_acct\" & dasDate & _ "bcs_orders_to_shipments" DoCmd.TransferSpreadsheet acExport, 8, ExportTableName, ExportFileName, True, "" Dave ----- Original Message ----- From: "Mark A Matte" To: Sent: Thursday, March 04, 2004 9:51 PM Subject: [AccessD] Export to Mutiple Excel Sheets Hello All, I need to build an export/import function into an A97 db...I want to export/import 2 query results...1 to each sheet in a new excel workbook. Any suggestions/directions to head? Thanks, Mark A. Matte _________________________________________________________________ Fast. Reliable. Get MSN 9 Dial-up - 3 months for the price of 1! (Limited-time Offer) http://click.atdmt.com/AVE/go/onm00200361ave/direct/01/ -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From stuart at lexacorp.com.pg Fri Mar 5 17:56:53 2004 From: stuart at lexacorp.com.pg (Stuart McLachlan) Date: Sat, 06 Mar 2004 09:56:53 +1000 Subject: [AccessD] Re: IIF statement In-Reply-To: <23590.63.251.87.214.1078513862.squirrel@heck.bay9.com> References: <000001c402e0$3c476be0$298e6351@netboxxp> Message-ID: <4049A065.9488.C3473@localhost> On 5 Mar 2004 at 14:11, Oleg_123 at xuppa.com wrote: > They do not know what they want as a final picture, but as for details > (such as column naemes, table names etc) they want long descriptive names > with spaces (luckily they don't see how I name command buttons and things > like that) > Why do "Management" ever get to see table and field names? That's asking for trouble. -- Lexacorp Ltd http://www.lexacorp.com.pg Information Technology Consultancy, Software Development,System Support. From jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com Fri Mar 5 18:19:12 2004 From: jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com (John W. Colby) Date: Fri, 5 Mar 2004 19:19:12 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Re: IIF statement In-Reply-To: <4049A065.9488.C3473@localhost> Message-ID: LOL. This is a concept that can only be taught through experience. Management NEVER tells me what to name things (unless it is to use a codified naming convention to match their enterprise programming model), but may have free reign in the user interface.If they want to get down to the level of telling me what to name tables they are going to be trouble I don't even want to deal with and I make a hasty exit. John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Stuart McLachlan Sent: Friday, March 05, 2004 6:57 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problemsolving Subject: RE: [AccessD] Re: IIF statement On 5 Mar 2004 at 14:11, Oleg_123 at xuppa.com wrote: > They do not know what they want as a final picture, but as for details > (such as column naemes, table names etc) they want long descriptive names > with spaces (luckily they don't see how I name command buttons and things > like that) > Why do "Management" ever get to see table and field names? That's asking for trouble. -- Lexacorp Ltd http://www.lexacorp.com.pg Information Technology Consultancy, Software Development,System Support. -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From cfoust at infostatsystems.com Fri Mar 5 18:28:28 2004 From: cfoust at infostatsystems.com (Charlotte Foust) Date: Fri, 5 Mar 2004 16:28:28 -0800 Subject: [AccessD] Re: IIF statement Message-ID: Amen to that! I've had clients try that on, but I usually remind them that *they* are paying *me* to know what I'm doing, and unless they make their livings developing databases, I'd appreciate it if they would let me get on with it. What comes out should be what they want. What lies underneath is strictly my domain. Charlotte Foust -----Original Message----- From: John W. Colby [mailto:jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com] Sent: Friday, March 05, 2004 4:19 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] Re: IIF statement LOL. This is a concept that can only be taught through experience. Management NEVER tells me what to name things (unless it is to use a codified naming convention to match their enterprise programming model), but may have free reign in the user interface.If they want to get down to the level of telling me what to name tables they are going to be trouble I don't even want to deal with and I make a hasty exit. John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Stuart McLachlan Sent: Friday, March 05, 2004 6:57 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problemsolving Subject: RE: [AccessD] Re: IIF statement On 5 Mar 2004 at 14:11, Oleg_123 at xuppa.com wrote: > They do not know what they want as a final picture, but as for details > (such as column naemes, table names etc) they want long descriptive > names with spaces (luckily they don't see how I name command buttons > and things like that) > Why do "Management" ever get to see table and field names? That's asking for trouble. -- Lexacorp Ltd http://www.lexacorp.com.pg Information Technology Consultancy, Software Development,System Support. -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From lister at actuarial-files.com Fri Mar 5 19:42:18 2004 From: lister at actuarial-files.com (Ralf Lister) Date: Fri, 5 Mar 2004 21:42:18 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Date formats Message-ID: <005401c4031c$596d4f00$7c976bce@ralf> Hello, when I have this date #06/03/2004# and run the Month function I get "Month(#06/03/2004#) = 6". Thats correct for the United States! But as I am in Bolivia I need "Month(#06/03/2004#) = 3". I logged on to "Regional Settings" in the Control Panel and changed in the leftmost tab the two dropdown-boxes to "Bolivia". But it didn't help at all. Can someone help me in achieving "Month(#06/03/2004#) = 3" ? Saludos Ralf From jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com Fri Mar 5 19:56:14 2004 From: jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com (John W. Colby) Date: Fri, 5 Mar 2004 20:56:14 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Framework Discussion - Classes - What are they? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: OK, so what is a class and why do we want to use them? A class is a module in Visual basic, but they are a special type of module. Classes are used to hold all of the code and data required to describe some object, in other words implement the behaviors and properties of that object. What sets a class apart from any other module in Visual Basic is that a class is loaded in it's entirety and may be loaded more than once. In fact it will be loaded once for each instance of the object being modeled. It is useful to use the data normalization model when designing classes, i.e. a table models an object and should to the best of our ability never hold data about two or more different objects. Likewise classes should model a single object and we should avoid having a class hold data or implement behaviors of two or more different objects. You might have a "Bank" class, but that bank class should then use classes for the banking objects such as accounts, customers, checks, deposits and so forth. A single class that tries to describe the bank and accounts and customers and ... is bound to be a mess. So, if a class describes a piece of fruit it may have properties for color, size, shape, weight, flavor etc. Until it is loaded a class can describe any piece of fruit that matches or can be described using the properties available in the class. It really doesn't describe anything however until it is loaded and these properties are filled with data, at which time a specific piece of fruit is described. This apple is red, is 3.5 inches in circumference, is round etc. That class instance then describes one specific piece of fruit. If you have a basket of apples and you need to manipulate them using classes, you will load a new instance for every apple in the basket. If you have a basket of mixed fruit, you load two instances that describe apples, an instance for a banana and an instance for each of three pears. A class is generally loaded multiple times specifically to describe multiple instances of some object. However this isn't a requirement. A class may be intended to only be loaded one time, but a class is still used by the developer simply for the encapsulation it provides. By putting all of the code and variables in one place, a class can now be used as an object that knows how to do something. For example my framework has a framework class. This class is only loaded once, it would serve no purpose to load it again. However the class knows how to read setup SysVars out of a table to configure itself, knows how to load other service classes such as an MD5 encryption class, knows how to count objects that the application is loading. So by building a single variable in a regular module, running a function that sets that variable = to an instance of my class, and initializing the class instance, a whole chain of events fires off loading other classes, and setting my application up for business. When I am done, I can then call methods of my framework class which perform services for me; zipping and unzipping files, encrypting and decrypting files, and in general just acting as the application manager. I am not yet writing a book on object oriented programming so in order to keep these emails a reasonable size I am going to leave my explanation of what a class is to the above. Summarized, a class is a special type of module which holds all of the code and data to describe or model the properties and behaviors of one instance of an object, and which is loaded one time for each instance of the object that we need to do something with. John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com From ssharkins at bellsouth.net Fri Mar 5 20:04:24 2004 From: ssharkins at bellsouth.net (Susan Harkins) Date: Fri, 5 Mar 2004 21:04:24 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Framework Discussion - Classes - What are they? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <20040306020424.PXRJ4640.imf23aec.mail.bellsouth.net@SUSANONE> JC -- I'd like to suggest that we move this series to MTM -- we can send a link each time there's a new one and even run the text in the body of the email as well. But that way, the information would be available longterm -- and via the newsletter links and not through just searching the archives. Sound reasonable, good? Of course, do as you like, but I think having these on MTM would be a good thing. Susan H. OK, so what is a class and why do we want to use them? A class is a module in Visual basic, but they are a special type of module. Classes are used to hold all of the code and data required to describe some object, in other words implement the behaviors and properties of that object. What sets a class apart from any other module in Visual Basic is that a class is loaded in it's entirety and may be loaded more than once. In fact it will be loaded once for each instance of the object being modeled. It is useful to use the data normalization model when designing classes, i.e. a table models an object and should to the best of our ability never hold data about two or more different objects. Likewise classes should model a single object and we should avoid having a class hold data or implement behaviors of two or more different objects. You might have a "Bank" class, but that bank class should then use classes for the banking objects such as accounts, customers, checks, deposits and so forth. A single class that tries to describe the bank and accounts and customers and ... is bound to be a mess. So, if a class describes a piece of fruit it may have properties for color, size, shape, weight, flavor etc. Until it is loaded a class can describe any piece of fruit that matches or can be described using the properties available in the class. It really doesn't describe anything however until it is loaded and these properties are filled with data, at which time a specific piece of fruit is described. This apple is red, is 3.5 inches in circumference, is round etc. That class instance then describes one specific piece of fruit. If you have a basket of apples and you need to manipulate them using classes, you will load a new instance for every apple in the basket. If you have a basket of mixed fruit, you load two instances that describe apples, an instance for a banana and an instance for each of three pears. A class is generally loaded multiple times specifically to describe multiple instances of some object. However this isn't a requirement. A class may be intended to only be loaded one time, but a class is still used by the developer simply for the encapsulation it provides. By putting all of the code and variables in one place, a class can now be used as an object that knows how to do something. For example my framework has a framework class. This class is only loaded once, it would serve no purpose to load it again. However the class knows how to read setup SysVars out of a table to configure itself, knows how to load other service classes such as an MD5 encryption class, knows how to count objects that the application is loading. So by building a single variable in a regular module, running a function that sets that variable = to an instance of my class, and initializing the class instance, a whole chain of events fires off loading other classes, and setting my application up for business. When I am done, I can then call methods of my framework class which perform services for me; zipping and unzipping files, encrypting and decrypting files, and in general just acting as the application manager. I am not yet writing a book on object oriented programming so in order to keep these emails a reasonable size I am going to leave my explanation of what a class is to the above. Summarized, a class is a special type of module which holds all of the code and data to describe or model the properties and behaviors of one instance of an object, and which is loaded one time for each instance of the object that we need to do something with. John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From papparuff at comcast.net Fri Mar 5 20:06:25 2004 From: papparuff at comcast.net (John Ruff) Date: Fri, 5 Mar 2004 18:06:25 -0800 Subject: [AccessD] Don't append if data exist In-Reply-To: <20040305154841.28969.qmail@web20413.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <000001c4031f$a2ad6a80$6401a8c0@papparuff> Make the Discharge Date and the Client Number the Primary Key John V. Ruff - The Eternal Optimist :-) Always Looking For Contract Opportunities Home: 253.588.2139 Cell: 253.307/2947 9306 Farwest Dr SW Lakewood, WA 98498 "Commit to the Lord whatever you do, and your plans will succeed." Proverbs 16:3 -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Lonnie Johnson Sent: Friday, March 05, 2004 7:49 AM To: 'MS-ACCESS-L at lists.missouri.edu'; AccessDevelopers; ms_access; AccessD solving' Subject: [AccessD] Don't append if data exist I have a query that runs every morning. It appends records to a table if a DISCHARGE DATE falls within the current month. Each day it will duplicate records for a CLEINT. How do I NOT append a record if BOTH the CLIENT NUMBER and the same DISCHARGE DATE exist. Note it is possible for a person to be discharged twice in one month. That is ok as long as the dates are different. I can't seem to think this through. Please help me think today Lonnie Johnson ProDev, Professional Development of MS Access Databases Visit me at ==> http://www.prodev.us --------------------------------- Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Search - Find what you're looking for faster. -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From stuart at lexacorp.com.pg Fri Mar 5 20:21:12 2004 From: stuart at lexacorp.com.pg (Stuart McLachlan) Date: Sat, 06 Mar 2004 12:21:12 +1000 Subject: [AccessD] Date formats In-Reply-To: <005401c4031c$596d4f00$7c976bce@ralf> Message-ID: <4049C238.18798.90542E@localhost> On 5 Mar 2004 at 21:42, Ralf Lister wrote: > Hello, > > when I have this date #06/03/2004# and run the Month function I get "Month(#06/03/2004#) = 6". Thats correct for the United States! > But as I am in Bolivia I need "Month(#06/03/2004#) = 3". > I logged on to "Regional Settings" in the Control Panel and changed in the leftmost tab the two dropdown-boxes to "Bolivia". But it didn't help at all. > Can someone help me in achieving "Month(#06/03/2004#) = 3" ? > The "#"s make it an SQL formatted date which is always interpreted as mm/dd/yyyy Try Month("06/03/2004") instead. That will respect your regional settings. -- Lexacorp Ltd http://www.lexacorp.com.pg Information Technology Consultancy, Software Development,System Support. From jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com Fri Mar 5 21:28:58 2004 From: jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com (John W. Colby) Date: Fri, 5 Mar 2004 22:28:58 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Framework Discussion - Classes - What are they? In-Reply-To: <20040306020424.PXRJ4640.imf23aec.mail.bellsouth.net@SUSANONE> Message-ID: I intend to move them to M-M however M-M only publishes once every two months. John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Susan Harkins Sent: Friday, March 05, 2004 9:04 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: [AccessD] Framework Discussion - Classes - What are they? JC -- I'd like to suggest that we move this series to MTM -- we can send a link each time there's a new one and even run the text in the body of the email as well. But that way, the information would be available longterm -- and via the newsletter links and not through just searching the archives. Sound reasonable, good? Of course, do as you like, but I think having these on MTM would be a good thing. Susan H. OK, so what is a class and why do we want to use them? A class is a module in Visual basic, but they are a special type of module. Classes are used to hold all of the code and data required to describe some object, in other words implement the behaviors and properties of that object. What sets a class apart from any other module in Visual Basic is that a class is loaded in it's entirety and may be loaded more than once. In fact it will be loaded once for each instance of the object being modeled. It is useful to use the data normalization model when designing classes, i.e. a table models an object and should to the best of our ability never hold data about two or more different objects. Likewise classes should model a single object and we should avoid having a class hold data or implement behaviors of two or more different objects. You might have a "Bank" class, but that bank class should then use classes for the banking objects such as accounts, customers, checks, deposits and so forth. A single class that tries to describe the bank and accounts and customers and ... is bound to be a mess. So, if a class describes a piece of fruit it may have properties for color, size, shape, weight, flavor etc. Until it is loaded a class can describe any piece of fruit that matches or can be described using the properties available in the class. It really doesn't describe anything however until it is loaded and these properties are filled with data, at which time a specific piece of fruit is described. This apple is red, is 3.5 inches in circumference, is round etc. That class instance then describes one specific piece of fruit. If you have a basket of apples and you need to manipulate them using classes, you will load a new instance for every apple in the basket. If you have a basket of mixed fruit, you load two instances that describe apples, an instance for a banana and an instance for each of three pears. A class is generally loaded multiple times specifically to describe multiple instances of some object. However this isn't a requirement. A class may be intended to only be loaded one time, but a class is still used by the developer simply for the encapsulation it provides. By putting all of the code and variables in one place, a class can now be used as an object that knows how to do something. For example my framework has a framework class. This class is only loaded once, it would serve no purpose to load it again. However the class knows how to read setup SysVars out of a table to configure itself, knows how to load other service classes such as an MD5 encryption class, knows how to count objects that the application is loading. So by building a single variable in a regular module, running a function that sets that variable = to an instance of my class, and initializing the class instance, a whole chain of events fires off loading other classes, and setting my application up for business. When I am done, I can then call methods of my framework class which perform services for me; zipping and unzipping files, encrypting and decrypting files, and in general just acting as the application manager. I am not yet writing a book on object oriented programming so in order to keep these emails a reasonable size I am going to leave my explanation of what a class is to the above. Summarized, a class is a special type of module which holds all of the code and data to describe or model the properties and behaviors of one instance of an object, and which is loaded one time for each instance of the object that we need to do something with. John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com Fri Mar 5 21:33:52 2004 From: jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com (John W. Colby) Date: Fri, 5 Mar 2004 22:33:52 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Framework Discussion - Classes - Why would we use them In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Now that I have briefly described a class, lets get down to using them. First of all, every form has or can have a built in class, one instance of which is loaded when the form loads. This class holds events for the form itself such as the Open, Close and AfterUpdate event. It can also be used to set properties of the form itself. For any class, the ME keyword is used to manipulate that instance of that class. In other words, if you need to set the Caption of a form from code running in the form, ME.Caption = "Some text" allows you to do so. Since the "code behind form" resides in the form's class, any Access developer who writes code in the form is already using classes. The fact that the class is part of the form is definitely nice in that you can export that form to another database and any code in the form's module (class) goes with it. Unfortunately it also creates maintenance headaches if you write very complex code in that class and then you need that same code in another form. Many developers simply cut and paste the code into the next form and be done with it. What happens though if the code has a bug? Now you have to open both forms and fix the bug in both forms. What happens if you exported the form to another project? Now you have to open the forms in both projects and edit the code to fix the problem. Recognizing this as an issue, some developers develop libraries and place such code in their own library. This works very well (and is what I do). Now if for example the OnEnter of a text box needs to call a function, the function is in the library and both forms just call the same function in the library. If there's a bug, fix it in the library and everything that uses that function gets fixed at once. Much better. However we still have the issue of the event stub itself. In order for the combo's OnEnter to call a method, that event has to cause code to run somewhere. That somewhere for 99% of Access programmers is in the form's class of the form where the combo exists. There is absolutely nothing wrong with this approach, but it can get terribly messy when a large form has 10 tabs and 80 controls on it, each control firing 3 or 4 different events, plus half a dozen events for the form, plus 30 functions for general processing plus... well I'm sure you get the picture. Now just trying to work in the form becomes a nightmare, paging up and down yards of code trying to find things. This in fact is one of the major problems with any of the Office Applications (Word, Excel, Access, Powerpoint) is that controls do not have their own class like the form does. Therefore the form's class serves as the controls class. Remember I said in the last email that classes should model one object? Already we are running into a class that is modeling a form and also modeling many different types of controls. Hmmm..... The following examples demonstrate how to change the background color of text boxes as the user moves through the controls. Just open the relevent form and start hitting the tab key watching the cursor as you do. For this example see frmPeopleClasseless: Option Compare Database Option Explicit Private Const mclngBackColor As Long = 16777088 'A pretty blue color to set the text box back color to Private mlngBackColorOrigFName As Long Private mlngBackColorOrigLName Private Sub txtFName_Enter() mlngBackColorOrigFName = txtFName.BackColor 'When we enter the text box, save the original back color txtFName.BackColor = mclngBackColor 'Set the back color to our favorite color End Sub Private Sub txtFName_Exit(Cancel As Integer) txtFName.BackColor = mlngBackColorOrigFName 'Set the back color to the original color End Sub Private Sub txtLName_Enter() mlngBackColorOrigLName = txtLName.BackColor 'When we enter the text box, save the original back color txtLName.BackColor = mclngBackColor 'Set the back color to our favorite color End Sub Private Sub txtLName_Exit(Cancel As Integer) txtLName.BackColor = mlngBackColorOrigLName 'Set the back color to the original color End Sub This code when placed in a form with a pair of text boxes called txtFName and txtLName causes the back color of these controls to switch from whatever they currently are top cyan when they get the focus (OnEnter) and back to their original color when they lose the focus (OnExit). That's kind of cool but look at what we are already running into. We need a variable at the top of the form for EACH control that we want to perform this behavior for, to save the old back color. It's ok if we only have one or two controls but what if we have 20 or 40? Can you say PITP (Patuty)? Further, we not only need the variables to store the stuff, but we also need to set up the OnEnter and OnExit subs for each control we want to do this. Multiply this times 20 or 40 and that's a REAL PITP. Fortunately we can build a class that models a specific control, lets say a text box. I am going to keep this simple so that you can see the workings, and add in the nice troubleshooting stuff I mentioned later. This is in dclsCtlTextBox. The following code represents a class for a text box, simple but marginally useful. Explanation IN-LINE. Option Compare Database Option Explicit Notice that we have ONE variable to hold the back color, the constant for the back color of our choice, and a place to store a pointer to a specific Private WithEvents mtxt As TextBox 'Dimension a text box Withevents Private Const mstrEventProcedure = "[Event Procedure]" 'A constant to hold the string [Event Procedure] Private Const mclngBackColor As Long = 16777088 'A pretty blue color to set the text box back color to Private mlngBackColorOrig As Long 'A place to store the original back color Next we have an init function where we are passed in a pointer to a specific text box. We save this pointer to the text box to our private variable in the class header. We also set the OnEnter and ONExit properties of that control to the string [Event Procedure]. 'The init function of every class "initializes" the class Function Init(ltxt As TextBox) 'Pass in a pointer to a specific control Set mtxt = ltxt 'Save that pointer to a private variable here in the class mtxt.OnEnter = mstrEventProcedure 'Set the OnEnter property of the control to [Event Procedure] mtxt.OnExit = mstrEventProcedure 'Do the same for the OnExit End Function We have a term function where we release or cleanup the pointer to the text box control ' 'The term function of every class cleans up all pointers to objects stored in our class ' Function Term() Set mtxt = Nothing 'Set the pointer to the control to nothing End Function And finally we have the same event stubs for OnEnter and OnExit for our specific control ' 'These are the event stubs for the control's OnEnter and OnExit events ' Private Sub mtxt_Enter() mlngBackColorOrig = mtxt.BackColor 'When we enter the text box, save the original back color mtxt.BackColor = mclngBackColor 'Set the back color to our favorite color End Sub Private Sub mtxt_Exit(Cancel As Integer) mtxt.BackColor = mlngBackColorOrig 'When we exit the control, set the back color back to the original color End Sub Having done that we are ready to instantiate this class once for each text box we want to control. I'm going to use the actual code form my demo database which handles FOUR text boxes. This is code in the form frmPeople2. The form's header now looks like: Option Compare Database Option Explicit Notice that we dimension the class four times, each with a distinct name. Private fdclsCtlTextBoxFName As dclsCtlTextBox Private fdclsCtlTextBoxLName As dclsCtlTextBox Private fdclsCtlTextBoxAddr1 As dclsCtlTextBox Private fdclsCtlTextBoxAddr2 As dclsCtlTextBox The form's Open event initializes each of these class instances: Private Sub Form_Open(Cancel As Integer) Set fdclsCtlTextBoxFName = New dclsCtlTextBox fdclsCtlTextBoxFName.Init txtFName Set fdclsCtlTextBoxLName = New dclsCtlTextBox fdclsCtlTextBoxLName.Init txtLName Set fdclsCtlTextBoxAddr1 = New dclsCtlTextBox fdclsCtlTextBoxAddr1.Init txtAddr1 Set fdclsCtlTextBoxAddr2 = New dclsCtlTextBox fdclsCtlTextBoxAddr2.Init txtAddr2 End Sub And the form's Close cleans up behind us: Private Sub Form_Close() fdclsCtlTextBoxFName.Term Set fdclsCtlTextBoxFName = Nothing fdclsCtlTextBoxLName.Term Set fdclsCtlTextBoxLName = Nothing fdclsCtlTextBoxAddr1.Term Set fdclsCtlTextBoxAddr1 = Nothing fdclsCtlTextBoxAddr2.Term Set fdclsCtlTextBoxAddr2 = Nothing End Sub That's it folks. Notice that the individual event stubs for the controls themselves are missing! The reason of course is that the text box class itself is sinking those events right inside of that class so we don't need event stubs here. Now I hear you already saying "yea, but there's still a lot of code just to do the init and cleanup". True, but there are also tricks that we can use. See FrmPeople3. The first is to use a class factory function such as: Private fdclsCtlTextBoxFName As dclsCtlTextBox Private fdclsCtlTextBoxLName As dclsCtlTextBox Private fdclsCtlTextBoxAddr1 As dclsCtlTextBox Private fdclsCtlTextBoxAddr2 As dclsCtlTextBox Private Sub Form_Open(Cancel As Integer) ClassFactory fdclsCtlTextBoxFName, txtFName ClassFactory fdclsCtlTextBoxLName, txtLName ClassFactory fdclsCtlTextBoxAddr1, txtAddr1 ClassFactory fdclsCtlTextBoxAddr2, txtAddr2 End Sub Private Sub Form_Close() ClsDestroy fdclsCtlTextBoxFName ClsDestroy fdclsCtlTextBoxLName ClsDestroy fdclsCtlTextBoxAddr1 ClsDestroy fdclsCtlTextBoxAddr2 End Sub Function ClassFactory(ldclsCtlTextBox As dclsCtlTextBox, txt As TextBox) Set ldclsCtlTextBox = New dclsCtlTextBox ldclsCtlTextBox.Init txt End Function Function ClsDestroy(ldclsCtlTextBox As dclsCtlTextBox) ldclsCtlTextBox.Term Set ldclsCtlTextBox = Nothing End Function Even better we could use a collection to hold the pointers to our control classes which eliminates the "new variable per class" syndrome as well as much of the cleanup code. See frmPeople4 Option Compare Database Option Explicit Private colClasses As Collection Private Sub Form_Open(Cancel As Integer) Set colClasses = New Collection ClassFactory txtFName ClassFactory txtLName ClassFactory txtAddr1 ClassFactory txtAddr2 End Sub Private Sub Form_Close() ClsDestroy End Sub Function ClassFactory(txt As TextBox) Dim ldclsCtlTextBox As dclsCtlTextBox Set ldclsCtlTextBox = New dclsCtlTextBox ldclsCtlTextBox.Init txt colClasses.Add ldclsCtlTextBox, txt.Name End Function Function ClsDestroy() Dim obj As Object For Each obj In colClasses obj.Term Set obj = Nothing Next obj Set colClasses = Nothing End Function Even BETTER... we could build a form class that did all this for us!!! But that is for another day. Go to my site and click on C2DbFW3G to go to a page I have set up for the downloads. John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com From ssharkins at bellsouth.net Fri Mar 5 21:44:01 2004 From: ssharkins at bellsouth.net (Susan Harkins) Date: Fri, 5 Mar 2004 22:44:01 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Framework Discussion - Classes - What are they? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <20040306034358.QYOI4640.imf23aec.mail.bellsouth.net@SUSANONE> We can publish these as your work -- that's not a problem John. Susan H. I intend to move them to M-M however M-M only publishes once every two months. From bheygood at abestsystems.com Fri Mar 5 22:34:03 2004 From: bheygood at abestsystems.com (Bob Heygood) Date: Fri, 5 Mar 2004 20:34:03 -0800 Subject: [AccessD] Re: Pocket PC In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.2.20040305103858.00ba62b8@pop3.highstream.net> Message-ID: I have a client using a cheap shareware program, see link below. Seems to work ok. I sent her an mdb and she was able to synch with it and use in the field. http://www.snapfiles.com/get/pocketpc/dataonrun.html Let us all know how it works for you. bob heygood -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Robert L. Stewart Sent: Friday, March 05, 2004 8:39 AM To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: [AccessD] Re: Pocket PC Do a search for Pendragon on google. At 12:57 AM 3/5/2004 -0600, you wrote: >Date: Thu, 4 Mar 2004 18:42:31 -0600 >From: >Subject: [AccessD] Pocket PC >To: >Message-ID: <200403050043.i250hhM10421 at databaseadvisors.com> >Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" > >Hi, >I have a MS Access XP app which i need to synchronize with a Pocket PC. >I have no idea how i can establish that. Is there some software out there to >design simple forms on a Pocket PC y synchroinze it with Access? >Thanks to everybody. >Rudolf F. Vanek -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From accessd at shaw.ca Fri Mar 5 22:20:12 2004 From: accessd at shaw.ca (Jim Lawrence (AccessD)) Date: Fri, 05 Mar 2004 20:20:12 -0800 Subject: [AccessD] Building up a framework In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Hi John: Would you be interested in going one step further by allowing the posts on the Framework to be re-submitted to DBA site? Jim -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of John W. Colby Sent: Thursday, March 04, 2004 7:48 PM To: AccessD Subject: [AccessD] Building up a framework I am preparing a series of articles for Many-to-Many on building a framework. I have a very basic framework started with the clsFW class, dclsFrm and dclsTextBox, as well as Sysvars and a couple of service classes, ZIP and Unzip. I will throw in a few more like some encryption classes. AFAICT this much is functioning, I can load a form, the form scanner finds all text boxes and loads a class for each, the SysVars function etc. Many to Many only publishes every 2 months or so. A series of articles will take 6 months to a year to get out. There is going to be a LOT of code, and some pretty in-depth discussions of collections, Classes / setup, teardown and debugging, Withevents, service classes and all the other stuff that goes into my framework. The end result will be a fully functioning if still rather basic application framework. My question to the group is, should I hold a discussion of the framework, how it is built, why I do this stuff and so forth on this list, or take it off to another list for only those interested? John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com Fri Mar 5 22:56:58 2004 From: jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com (John W. Colby) Date: Fri, 5 Mar 2004 23:56:58 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Building up a framework In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Jim, I will be working with Susan to clean them up and publish them in m-m. John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Jim Lawrence (AccessD) Sent: Friday, March 05, 2004 11:20 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] Building up a framework Hi John: Would you be interested in going one step further by allowing the posts on the Framework to be re-submitted to DBA site? Jim -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of John W. Colby Sent: Thursday, March 04, 2004 7:48 PM To: AccessD Subject: [AccessD] Building up a framework I am preparing a series of articles for Many-to-Many on building a framework. I have a very basic framework started with the clsFW class, dclsFrm and dclsTextBox, as well as Sysvars and a couple of service classes, ZIP and Unzip. I will throw in a few more like some encryption classes. AFAICT this much is functioning, I can load a form, the form scanner finds all text boxes and loads a class for each, the SysVars function etc. Many to Many only publishes every 2 months or so. A series of articles will take 6 months to a year to get out. There is going to be a LOT of code, and some pretty in-depth discussions of collections, Classes / setup, teardown and debugging, Withevents, service classes and all the other stuff that goes into my framework. The end result will be a fully functioning if still rather basic application framework. My question to the group is, should I hold a discussion of the framework, how it is built, why I do this stuff and so forth on this list, or take it off to another list for only those interested? John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From ayishakca at yahoo.ca Fri Mar 5 23:08:57 2004 From: ayishakca at yahoo.ca (Ayisha) Date: Sat, 6 Mar 2004 08:08:57 +0300 Subject: [AccessD] Form In Background References: <618EB4D6DDCDD3119B0A00508B6FD37A0CB0D226@cntexchange.pgdp.usec.com><002d01c401a7$45398420$02d15dd4@ali> <006e01c40237$36e683b0$48619a89@DDICK> Message-ID: <008c01c40339$31f27910$91d574d4@ali> Thanks Darren Dick for your support. Ayisha ----- Original Message ----- From: "Darren DICK" To: "Access Developers discussion and problem solving" Sent: Friday, March 05, 2004 1:22 AM Subject: Re: [AccessD] Form In Background > Ayisha > > Try something like > DoCmd.OpenForm "frmMyLinkedForm " ,acNormal ,,,,acHidden > if you open the form from a button > or try Me.Visible = false in the OnLoad event of the form in question > If you do either of these make sure you have a way to make the form visible again > Eg on some other form have a button that runs something like Forms!frmMyLinkedForm.visible = true > HTH > > Darren > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Ayisha" > To: "Access Developers discussion and problem solving" > Sent: Thursday, March 04, 2004 4:03 PM > Subject: [AccessD] Form In Background > > > > Is there any way that i can hide a linked form in background???? > > > > Ayisha > > -- > > _______________________________________________ > > AccessD mailing list > > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From gustav at cactus.dk Sat Mar 6 03:54:03 2004 From: gustav at cactus.dk (Gustav Brock) Date: Sat, 6 Mar 2004 10:54:03 +0100 Subject: [AccessD] OT: Friday Humour, Alpha-Access comparison In-Reply-To: <1431681986.20031003174250@cactus.dk> References: <1431681986.20031003174250@cactus.dk> Message-ID: <918212138.20040306105403@cactus.dk> Hi All These keep coming. A bit late (it's Saturday here) but if you have developed several applications in Access 1 and probably many more the following 10 years and still haven't figured out how to write a filter statement or a custom dialog/input box, rescue is at hand: http://newsletter.alphasoftware.com/0040302.htm For the defence of Randy, who wrote this tralala blurb, he didn't believe in it that much to bother inserting a title! /gustav > Hi Charlotte > I guess not. How on Earth could he/she have accomplished that? > For a further laugh - revealing another heavy competitor to Alpha, > browse this: > http://newsletter.alphasoftware.com/0031005.htm > Note close to the bottom this gem which which proves that Alt+F11 was > disabled during the "test": > "Build scripts or access a full programming language to process data > and build user fully customized professional user interfaces." > /gustav >> ROTFL Unbiased comparison indeed! I wonder if the author ever built an >> Access database. >> Charlotte Foust >> -----Original Message----- >> From: Gustav Brock [mailto:gustav at cactus.dk] >> Sent: Friday, October 03, 2003 7:22 AM >> To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com >> Subject: [AccessD] OT: Friday Humour, Alpha-Access comparison >> Hi all >> Stumbled over all the missing features of Access? >> Well, you are not alone. Browse this unbiased comparison: >> http://newsletter.alphasoftware.com/0031004.htm >> /gustav From gustav at cactus.dk Sat Mar 6 03:06:31 2004 From: gustav at cactus.dk (Gustav Brock) Date: Sat, 6 Mar 2004 10:06:31 +0100 Subject: [AccessD] Date formats In-Reply-To: <005401c4031c$596d4f00$7c976bce@ralf> References: <005401c4031c$596d4f00$7c976bce@ralf> Message-ID: <1905360728.20040306100631@cactus.dk> Hi Ralf > when I have this date #06/03/2004# and run the Month function I get "Month(#06/03/2004#) = 6". Thats correct for the United States! > But as I am in Bolivia I need "Month(#06/03/2004#) = 3". > I logged on to "Regional Settings" in the Control Panel and changed in the leftmost tab the two dropdown-boxes to "Bolivia". But it didn't help at all. > Can someone help me in achieving "Month(#06/03/2004#) = 3" ? Well, Month(#06/03/2004#) is 6 if you write this in code. However, if it is typed in the GUI of, say, the query designer, it is 3 because Access tries to interpret your local settings. But, if you switch to the SQL code view, it is written #03/06/2004#. You will have to adopt to this. /gustav From joeget at vgernet.net Sat Mar 6 05:31:03 2004 From: joeget at vgernet.net (John Eget) Date: Sat, 6 Mar 2004 06:31:03 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] report graph to power point Message-ID: <00c701c4036e$85a0cb90$67c2f63f@Desktop> is there a way to export a graph from a report to a power point slide? John From mwp.reid at qub.ac.uk Sat Mar 6 06:53:39 2004 From: mwp.reid at qub.ac.uk (Martin Reid) Date: Sat, 6 Mar 2004 12:53:39 -0000 Subject: [AccessD] OT: Friday Humour, Alpha-Access comparison References: <1431681986.20031003174250@cactus.dk> <918212138.20040306105403@cactus.dk> Message-ID: <000d01c4037a$c4997020$1b02a8c0@MARTINREID> Need to get a default value from one table into a form bound to another table. Whatever we do it will not get the value. Tryed Dlookup etc and still no joy. Anyone any ideas? Martin From jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com Sat Mar 6 07:24:26 2004 From: jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com (John W. Colby) Date: Sat, 6 Mar 2004 08:24:26 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Offtopic: Word, macros and applying styles to paragraphs Message-ID: I am working on formatting existing word documents to use styles from a document template. I can select text and then click on the style, select the style and apply that style to the selected text. I'm wondering if Word has a "macro" system that I could use to apply hotkeys to macro styles so that I can just tap hotkeys to apply the styles to the paragraphs selected? John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com From gustav at cactus.dk Sat Mar 6 07:37:22 2004 From: gustav at cactus.dk (Gustav Brock) Date: Sat, 6 Mar 2004 14:37:22 +0100 Subject: [AccessD] Default value from external table In-Reply-To: <000d01c4037a$c4997020$1b02a8c0@MARTINREID> References: <1431681986.20031003174250@cactus.dk> <918212138.20040306105403@cactus.dk> <000d01c4037a$c4997020$1b02a8c0@MARTINREID> Message-ID: <2321611475.20040306143722@cactus.dk> Hi Martin Setting the DefaultValue of the textbox or combo should do. Remember, setting it from code, it must be a string. If in doubt, set the default value manually, then read it out: ? Forms!frmYourForm!txtYourTextbox.DefaultValue /gustav > Need to get a default value from one table into a form bound to another > table. Whatever we do it will not get the value. Tryed Dlookup etc and still > no joy. From mwp.reid at qub.ac.uk Sat Mar 6 08:04:03 2004 From: mwp.reid at qub.ac.uk (Martin Reid) Date: Sat, 6 Mar 2004 14:04:03 -0000 Subject: [AccessD] Default value from external table References: <1431681986.20031003174250@cactus.dk><918212138.20040306105403@cactus.dk><000d01c4037a$c4997020$1b02a8c0@MARTINREID> <2321611475.20040306143722@cactus.dk> Message-ID: <000901c40383$e3b69790$1b02a8c0@MARTINREID> Thanks Gustav Got it. Martin ----- Original Message ----- From: "Gustav Brock" To: "Access Developers discussion and problem solving" Sent: Saturday, March 06, 2004 1:37 PM Subject: Re: [AccessD] Default value from external table > Hi Martin > > Setting the DefaultValue of the textbox or combo should do. > Remember, setting it from code, it must be a string. > > If in doubt, set the default value manually, then read it out: > > ? Forms!frmYourForm!txtYourTextbox.DefaultValue > > /gustav > > > > Need to get a default value from one table into a form bound to another > > table. Whatever we do it will not get the value. Tryed Dlookup etc and still > > no joy. > > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > From jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com Sat Mar 6 15:23:48 2004 From: jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com (John W. Colby) Date: Sat, 6 Mar 2004 16:23:48 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Your favorite control behavior Message-ID: I am taking suggestions for control behaviors that you have found useful and have programmed controls to perform in the past. For example I program the back color of combos, lists and text boxes to change to a given color as they get the focus, and back to their original color as they lose the focus. This helps to avoid the "where's the cursor" questions. Another example, I program the double-click of a combo to open a form to allow editing the data in the table that the combo pulls from. In addition, if a combo is programmed to perform this behavior, I dynamically set its label's back color to a specific color. this is a visual cue that "this combo has the dbl-click behavior activated" What kinds of things do you have your controls do? John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com From lister at actuarial-files.com Sat Mar 6 09:28:40 2004 From: lister at actuarial-files.com (Ralf Lister) Date: Sat, 6 Mar 2004 11:28:40 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Date formats References: <4049C238.18798.90542E@localhost> Message-ID: <00e801c403c5$2cd39180$69976bce@ralf> Thanks to Stuart and Gustav. Now my Date functions work as expected. Saludos Ralf ----- Original Message ----- From: "Stuart McLachlan" To: "Access Developers discussion and problemsolving" Sent: Friday, March 05, 2004 10:21 PM Subject: Re: [AccessD] Date formats > On 5 Mar 2004 at 21:42, Ralf Lister wrote: > > > Hello, > > > > when I have this date #06/03/2004# and run the Month function I get "Month(#06/03/2004#) = 6". Thats correct for the United States! > > But as I am in Bolivia I need "Month(#06/03/2004#) = 3". > > I logged on to "Regional Settings" in the Control Panel and changed in the leftmost tab the two dropdown-boxes to "Bolivia". But it didn't help at all. > > Can someone help me in achieving "Month(#06/03/2004#) = 3" ? > > > > The "#"s make it an SQL formatted date which is always interpreted as mm/dd/yyyy > > Try Month("06/03/2004") instead. That will respect your regional > settings. > > > > > -- > Lexacorp Ltd > http://www.lexacorp.com.pg > Information Technology Consultancy, Software Development,System Support. > > > > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > From jwelz at hotmail.com Sat Mar 6 16:14:51 2004 From: jwelz at hotmail.com (Jürgen Welz) Date: Sat, 06 Mar 2004 15:14:51 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] Your favorite control behavior Message-ID: I use a light blue background for combos which are limited to list and for controls that are not editable by users even though most developers use use a grey. I almost never have a 'New' record button on forms and permit all manner of new records to be entered by a not in list. For some kinds of lookups, it makes good sense to limit entries to the list and I find that the users like knowing that they can type in a new entry. Some of my subforms look like list boxes so list boxes have the same locked light blue color. Editable textboxes and combos with not in list capability use a very light grey and turn white when they get focus. I am a big fan of keyboard shortcuts so I use keydown a fair bit with textboxes that have attached labels using an underlined character. This emulates the effect that you get with VB where you can place a label in the tab order and use an accellerator key combination to get focus to the next control in the tab order that is capable of receiving focus. One other thing I do quite a bit is to replace command buttons with labels because of focus issues, especially when the command button is on a parent form to perform an operation on a sub form beneath it with a currently selected record. You can change the look of the button on mouse down and up so it appears to operate like a conventional button and you get more control over the button's appearance. One thing I've been playing with recently is getting the look that you get when a mouse passes over a toolbar and using etched label buttons to give a look and feel more akin to Java. If there was an event, 'Mouse is no longer over', I would be implementing this everywhere but as it is, there's a fair bit of code required to make this work effectively. Ciao J?rgen Welz Edmonton, Alberta jwelz at hotmail.com >From: "John W. Colby" > >I am taking suggestions for control behaviors that you have found useful >and >have programmed controls to perform in the past. > >For example I program the back color of combos, lists and text boxes to >change to a given color as they get the focus, and back to their original >color as they lose the focus. This helps to avoid the "where's the cursor" >questions. > >Another example, I program the double-click of a combo to open a form to >allow editing the data in the table that the combo pulls from. In >addition, >if a combo is programmed to perform this behavior, I dynamically set its >label's back color to a specific color. this is a visual cue that "this >combo has the dbl-click behavior activated" > >What kinds of things do you have your controls do? > >John W. Colby >www.ColbyConsulting.com _________________________________________________________________ MSN Premium with Virus Guard and Firewall* from McAfee? Security : 2 months FREE* http://join.msn.com/?pgmarket=en-ca&page=byoa/prem&xAPID=1994&DI=1034&SU=http://hotmail.com/enca&HL=Market_MSNIS_Taglines From jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com Sat Mar 6 16:22:51 2004 From: jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com (John W. Colby) Date: Sat, 6 Mar 2004 17:22:51 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Framework Discussion - Classes - Supervisors Message-ID: We have discussed why we would use classes and seen demos of text box code running natively in a form, then the equivalent written as a control class for a text box. We then looked at these classes dimensioned in the form header and instantiated directly and using class factory functions. The next step is what I call the supervisor class. Supervisor classes are classes that load and ?supervise? other classes. Notice that the form?s built in class is doing a lot of work setting up these control classes. It will only get worse as we add new control type classes for combo boxes, check boxes etc. and then try to load a class instance for each of 50 controls. All of the code we saw in frmPeople4 will have to be replicated over and over in each form you want to build. So why don?t we build a form class of our own and place this code in our class. Then we just set up and tear down that supervisor class in each form. Basically all we do is transfer the code we have in the form into a class, with an Init() and Term() method to call for setting up and tearing down our new class form. OK, so the code for the new dclsFrm (form class) can be seen in dclsFrm in the demo database and looks like this (comments in-line): The dclsFrm form class (Supervisor) Option Compare Database Option Explicit By now you should be getting used to class headers. Here we dimension the Event Procedure string, the collection and the form variable. Notice that we are declaring the form variable WithEvents meaning that this class will be sinking form events inside this class Private Const mstrEventProcedure = "[Event Procedure]" 'A constant to hold the string [Event Procedure] Private mcolClasses As Collection Private WithEvents mfrm As Form We haven?t seen this yet. All classes may have an Initialize and Terminate event which are run automatically as the class opens. It is roughly the equivalent of a form?s Open and Close events. I use them to run the set statements for all objects that the class will use, just to get these statements grouped together and run. Private Sub Class_Initialize() Set mcolClasses = New Collection End Sub In the Terminate of the class we call the classes Term() method which the developer writes. Private Sub Class_Terminate() Term End Sub The init simply takes the passed in pointer to the form and stores it in our local variable. We now have a pointer to the form so we can call FindControls to iterate the controls control collection and load the control classes. And finally, set the form?s OnClose property so that we can sink the Close event in this class. Function Init(lfrm As Form) Set mfrm = lfrm FindControls mfrm.OnClose = mstrEventProcedure End Function Term calls ClsDestroy which cleans up the control classes, then sets out pointer to the form to nothing. Forgetting to clean up pointers to collections and controls is one of the prime reasons for memory leaks and Access failing to close. Function Term() On Error Resume Next ClsDestroy Set mfrm = Nothing End Function The form?s Close event will transfer control to this event sink, where we call this class? term event to clean up our pointers Private Sub mfrm_Close() Term End Sub The class factory we saw in ?Classes ? why would we use them?. It simply creates an instance for the text box passed in and stores the pointer to that class in the collection. Function ClassFactory(txt As TextBox) Dim ldclsCtlTextBox As dclsCtlTextBox Set ldclsCtlTextBox = New dclsCtlTextBox ldclsCtlTextBox.Init txt mcolClasses.Add ldclsCtlTextBox, txt.Name End Function Class destroy cleans out the control class collection, calling term of each control class then destroying the pointer to that class. Function ClsDestroy() Dim obj As Object On Error Resume Next For Each obj In mcolClasses obj.Term Set obj = Nothing Next obj Set mcolClasses = Nothing End Function FindControls is the major enhancement that the dclsFrm brings to the table. This function iterates the forms controls collection. It examines each control for its control type and instantiates a class instance for each control. The type of control class instantiated depends on the control?s controltype property. So far we only have a control class for text boxes but we will soon be adding more control classes for combos, check boxes, lists and so forth. This function will then be used to load those other control classes as well. ' 'THIS FUNCTION SEARCHES THE FORM FOR CONTROLS OF VARIOUS TYPES. ' 'The framework will build functionality using controls with consistant naming. We can 'find these controls simply by searching the form's control collection looking for 'controls named something specific. In other cases we might want to load a class 'to handle a specific type of control - perhaps a text box class or a dependent combo 'class. ' 'This function will be used to do the search through the form's control collection 'looking for controls that we know how to handle and setting up the hooks to handle 'those controls ' 'Parameters: 'Created by: Colby Consulting 'Created : 4/26/98 10:23:44 AM Private Sub FindControls() On Error GoTo Err_FindControls Dim ctl As Control Dim intIndex As Integer Dim col As Collection Set col = New Collection For Each ctl In mfrm.Controls 'Find each control in the form's control collection With ctl Select Case .ControlType 'Determine it's type Case acTextBox 'Find all text boxes and load class to change backcolor mcolClasses.Add New dclsCtlTextBox, .Name mcolClasses(.Name).Init ctl Case acSubform Case acTabCtl 'tab pages are handled in the tab control Case acOptionGroup Case acCheckBox Case acOptionButton Case acCommandButton Case acToggleButton Case acListBox Case acComboBox Case Else End Select End With NextCtl: Next ctl Exit_FindControls: On Error Resume Next Set ctl = Nothing Exit Sub Err_FindControls: Select Case Err Case 0 'insert Errors you wish to ignore here Resume Next Case Else 'All other errors will trap Beep MsgBox Err.Description, , "Error in function Forms.FindControls" Resume Exit_FindControls End Select Resume 0 'FOR TROUBLESHOOTING End Sub The form?s built-in class That takes care of the dclsFrm form class. To use this class we modify our form?s built-in class as follows ? See frmPeople6: Option Compare Database Option Explicit Dimension our new form class Public fdclsFrm As dclsFrm Set it and initialize it, passing a pointer to the form Private Sub Form_Open(Cancel As Integer) Set fdclsFrm = New dclsFrm fdclsFrm.Init Me End Sub If you remember the first form with the control handling built into the form ?s class you can see we have dropped the total code resident in our form by a huge amount. Additionally, should we have 1 or 100 controls on the form, the generic processing code on the form doesn?t expand by even a single line of code. Now your form can concentrate on functionality that is specific to the application rather on functionality that is generic to all applications. The dclsFrm is one of a handful of supervisor classes we will look at as we work on the framework. We now have what could be called a minimal framework. We have a form class that you can build upon to hang form functionality on, and we have one control class dctlTextBox that demonstrates the concept of the control scanner in dclsFrm loading control classes for us automatically. This class can have additional functionality added to it to allow it to automatically perform other generic functionality for our applications. In fact we will be adding more functionality to both of these classes in addition to adding other controls classes. More importantly though, we need to get a framework foundation established, which will take the shape of another supervisor class which I call clsFW. Note: frmPeople5 uses the form?s built-in class? Close event to cleanup the pointer to dclsFrm which causes a page fault. I just wanted to point out that you can?t do this in Access 2K, and that this is a bug in Access that was fixed in AccessXP. John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com From artful at rogers.com Sun Mar 7 00:40:09 2004 From: artful at rogers.com (Arthur Fuller) Date: Sat, 6 Mar 2004 22:40:09 -0800 Subject: [AccessD] OT: Friday Humour, Alpha-Access comparison In-Reply-To: <000d01c4037a$c4997020$1b02a8c0@MARTINREID> Message-ID: <016801c4040f$0a28c0c0$6501a8c0@rock> I started to experiment but got flummoxed due to the lack of precise detail. How and when do you want to grab the value? New or existing record on the bound form? Human intervention or not? Based on input into some other control on the form? Arthur -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Martin Reid Sent: Saturday, March 06, 2004 4:54 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] OT: Friday Humour, Alpha-Access comparison Need to get a default value from one table into a form bound to another table. Whatever we do it will not get the value. Tryed Dlookup etc and still no joy. Anyone any ideas? Martin -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From artful at rogers.com Sun Mar 7 00:48:35 2004 From: artful at rogers.com (Arthur Fuller) Date: Sat, 6 Mar 2004 22:48:35 -0800 Subject: [AccessD] Your favorite control behavior In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <016901c40410$36662c30$6501a8c0@rock> This is a little bit off topic, perhaps. One of the most frustrating things for me about Access is the repetitive stuff I have to do to fields of a similar type. For example, I might want every date field in every form to have a given format and input mask, or make every yes/no in a table have the checkbox style, or every occurrence of CustomerID to (save the one in the Customers table) have the same combo-box characteristics including the query, column widths etc. Currently what I do, and it's admittedly lame, is create a worktable containing all this stuff and then paste from there into the tables as I need the various fields. Really bugs me to do it this way -- especially if I change my mind later -- then I have to visit every occurrence of field x and update its new spec. Really bugs me! I realize that you're talking about classes not table specs, and I know from previous discussions that I do a LOT more work at this level than you do, and I don't really want to have that discussion again. I'm just wondering if anyone has a brilliant method of specifying the characteristics of a field in every table where it occurs. Arthur -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of John W. Colby Sent: Saturday, March 06, 2004 1:24 PM To: AccessD Subject: [AccessD] Your favorite control behavior I am taking suggestions for control behaviors that you have found useful and have programmed controls to perform in the past. For example I program the back color of combos, lists and text boxes to change to a given color as they get the focus, and back to their original color as they lose the focus. This helps to avoid the "where's the cursor" questions. Another example, I program the double-click of a combo to open a form to allow editing the data in the table that the combo pulls from. In addition, if a combo is programmed to perform this behavior, I dynamically set its label's back color to a specific color. this is a visual cue that "this combo has the dbl-click behavior activated" What kinds of things do you have your controls do? John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From artful at rogers.com Sun Mar 7 00:53:53 2004 From: artful at rogers.com (Arthur Fuller) Date: Sat, 6 Mar 2004 22:53:53 -0800 Subject: [AccessD] Your favorite control behavior In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <016a01c40410$f433f490$6501a8c0@rock> I have a function called aaNotInList() which takes the same parms as the NotInList function and adds two new ones -- the name of the form to open when adding an item, and the "human" name of said entity, the latter just to pretty up the messagebox that comes up. The functon asks if you want to add a new "XXX" (4th parm) and if so opens the specified form, which uses the typical code to hide itself on OK and close itself on Cancel. Then the function does the usual "add to list and accept the value" and closes the form. It works great but I still have to type in that line of code every time I need one. Not that one line of code is a major hassle, I guess, but can you think of a class-based way to do this? It might be more fun to do it that way. Arthur -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of John W. Colby Sent: Saturday, March 06, 2004 1:24 PM To: AccessD Subject: [AccessD] Your favorite control behavior I am taking suggestions for control behaviors that you have found useful and have programmed controls to perform in the past. For example I program the back color of combos, lists and text boxes to change to a given color as they get the focus, and back to their original color as they lose the focus. This helps to avoid the "where's the cursor" questions. Another example, I program the double-click of a combo to open a form to allow editing the data in the table that the combo pulls from. In addition, if a combo is programmed to perform this behavior, I dynamically set its label's back color to a specific color. this is a visual cue that "this combo has the dbl-click behavior activated" What kinds of things do you have your controls do? John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From wdhindman at bellsouth.net Sat Mar 6 22:05:00 2004 From: wdhindman at bellsouth.net (William Hindman) Date: Sat, 6 Mar 2004 23:05:00 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Your favorite control behavior References: <016901c40410$36662c30$6501a8c0@rock> Message-ID: <002d01c403f9$5ca9d2f0$6101a8c0@dejpolsys> ...I use Speed Ferret from Black Moshannon to automate such tasks ...:) William Hindman "My idea of an agreeable person is a person who agrees with me." Disraeli ----- Original Message ----- From: "Arthur Fuller" To: "'Access Developers discussion and problem solving'" Sent: Sunday, March 07, 2004 1:48 AM Subject: RE: [AccessD] Your favorite control behavior > This is a little bit off topic, perhaps. One of the most frustrating > things for me about Access is the repetitive stuff I have to do to > fields of a similar type. For example, I might want every date field in > every form to have a given format and input mask, or make every yes/no > in a table have the checkbox style, or every occurrence of CustomerID to > (save the one in the Customers table) have the same combo-box > characteristics including the query, column widths etc. Currently what I > do, and it's admittedly lame, is create a worktable containing all this > stuff and then paste from there into the tables as I need the various > fields. Really bugs me to do it this way -- especially if I change my > mind later -- then I have to visit every occurrence of field x and > update its new spec. Really bugs me! > > I realize that you're talking about classes not table specs, and I know > from previous discussions that I do a LOT more work at this level than > you do, and I don't really want to have that discussion again. I'm just > wondering if anyone has a brilliant method of specifying the > characteristics of a field in every table where it occurs. > > Arthur > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of John W. Colby > Sent: Saturday, March 06, 2004 1:24 PM > To: AccessD > Subject: [AccessD] Your favorite control behavior > > > I am taking suggestions for control behaviors that you have found useful > and have programmed controls to perform in the past. > > For example I program the back color of combos, lists and text boxes to > change to a given color as they get the focus, and back to their > original color as they lose the focus. This helps to avoid the "where's > the cursor" questions. > > Another example, I program the double-click of a combo to open a form to > allow editing the data in the table that the combo pulls from. In > addition, if a combo is programmed to perform this behavior, I > dynamically set its label's back color to a specific color. this is a > visual cue that "this combo has the dbl-click behavior activated" > > What kinds of things do you have your controls do? > > John W. Colby > www.ColbyConsulting.com > > > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > From jwelz at hotmail.com Sun Mar 7 00:08:40 2004 From: jwelz at hotmail.com (Jürgen Welz) Date: Sat, 06 Mar 2004 23:08:40 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] Your favorite control behavior Message-ID: That is almost exactly the way my Notinlist procedure is coded. I also add two parameters, one for the target table to which the record will be added and one for a user name for the type of data to be added. I guess the only difference is that I don't open a separate data entry form. I just set a single record recordset for the existing form to the record that is added and it displays the new data in the appropriate field or fields. For things like date fields or lookups, I create them once on a template form and then copy from there to the form on which I need it displayed. Although you can use WithEvents and hook up controls, I haven't found a way to do this with the Notinlist parameters. I have found that just about every event that I may want to use WithEvents for, I can instead create a public function procedure for. For a control that displays a date for which I want a calendar to pop on double click and to change backcolor when it gets focus and revert to a non-focus backcolor when focus is lost, or respond to mouse move events, I can call the public procedure, usually passing in screen.activecontrol by using the function name rather than [eventprocedure] in the property sheet. When I copy and paste a date control from my template form into a new target form, it is completely hooked up to all standard events. Retrieving the form container name only requires the code to check the parent property of the active control. For example, if you open the event property sheet for a conventional textbox, in the On Got Focus entry in the property you could enter: =OnFocus([Screen].[Activecontrol]) and in the On Lost Focus entyr you could enter: =OffFocus([Screen].[Activecontrol]) Then in a public module: Public Function OnFocus(ctl As Control) ctl.BackColor = vbWhite 'or some standard constant End Function Public Function OffFocus(ctl As Control) ctl.BackColor = -2147483633 'or some constant that can be set End Function You can check for control type being a combo and call .DropDown in the OnFocus or write a separate OnFocusCombo procedure. The whole point is that the event procedures are hooked up when you paste a copy of the control as the event properties are copied with the control. Another nice means to hookup events automatically is to create a control combination, or even a single control, encapsulated on a sub form all by itself. The control comes with its own class module in the code behind the subform. I have found this a great way to hookup something like a callback based list of municipalities with a not in list that can be made aware of the need to requery the data array when there is an addition or change to a municipality record. No need to create a new copy of the control on multiple forms, just drag the subform container on and you get format and events all done. Ciao J?rgen Welz Edmonton, Alberta jwelz at hotmail.com >From: "Arthur Fuller" >Reply-To: Access Developers discussion and problem >solving >To: "'Access Developers discussion and problem >solving'" >Subject: RE: [AccessD] Your favorite control behavior >Date: Sat, 6 Mar 2004 22:53:53 -0800 >MIME-Version: 1.0 >Received: from mc2-f12.hotmail.com ([65.54.190.19]) by mc2-s14.hotmail.com >with Microsoft SMTPSVC(5.0.2195.6824); Sat, 6 Mar 2004 19:56:23 -0800 >Received: from databaseadvisors.com ([209.135.140.44]) by >mc2-f12.hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC(5.0.2195.6824); Sat, 6 Mar 2004 >19:56:23 -0800 >Received: from databaseadvisors.com (databaseadvisors.com >[209.135.140.44])by databaseadvisors.com (8.11.6/8.11.6) with ESMTP id >i273tWM26752;Sat, 6 Mar 2004 21:55:32 -0600 >Received: from >fep03-mail.bloor.is.net.cable.rogers.com(fep03-mail.bloor.is.net.cable.rogers.com >[66.185.86.73])by databaseadvisors.com (8.11.6/8.11.6) with ESMTP id >i273tRM26707for ; Sat, 6 Mar 2004 21:55:27 >-0600 >Received: from rock ([24.153.60.144])by >fep03-mail.bloor.is.net.cable.rogers.com(InterMail vM.5.01.05.12 >201-253-122-126-112-20020820) with ESMTP >id<20040307035516.YGWF411419.fep03-mail.bloor.is.net.cable.rogers.com at rock>for >; Sat, 6 Mar 2004 22:55:16 -0500 >X-Message-Info: jl7Vrt/mfsqz8S4A4C6FS1y0F6nk0vr4 >Message-ID: <016a01c40410$f433f490$6501a8c0 at rock> >X-MSMail-Priority: Normal >X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook, Build 10.0.2627 >X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 >In-Reply-To: >X-Authentication-Info: Submitted using SMTP AUTH LOGIN >atfep03-mail.bloor.is.net.cable.rogers.com from [24.153.60.144]using ID > at Sat, 6 Mar 2004 22:55:16 -0500 >X-BeenThere: accessd at databaseadvisors.com >X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.4 >Precedence: list >List-Id: Access Developers discussion and problem >solving >List-Help: >List-Post: >List-Subscribe: >, >List-Archive: >List-Unsubscribe: >, >Errors-To: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com >Return-Path: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com >X-OriginalArrivalTime: 07 Mar 2004 03:56:23.0073 (UTC) >FILETIME=[27FAB110:01C403F8] > >I have a function called aaNotInList() which takes the same parms as the >NotInList function and adds two new ones -- the name of the form to open >when adding an item, and the "human" name of said entity, the latter >just to pretty up the messagebox that comes up. The functon asks if you >want to add a new "XXX" (4th parm) and if so opens the specified form, >which uses the typical code to hide itself on OK and close itself on >Cancel. Then the function does the usual "add to list and accept the >value" and closes the form. It works great but I still have to type in >that line of code every time I need one. Not that one line of code is a >major hassle, I guess, but can you think of a class-based way to do >this? It might be more fun to do it that way. > >Arthur > >-----Original Message----- >From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com >[mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of John W. Colby >Sent: Saturday, March 06, 2004 1:24 PM >To: AccessD >Subject: [AccessD] Your favorite control behavior > > >I am taking suggestions for control behaviors that you have found useful >and have programmed controls to perform in the past. > >For example I program the back color of combos, lists and text boxes to >change to a given color as they get the focus, and back to their >original color as they lose the focus. This helps to avoid the "where's >the cursor" questions. > >Another example, I program the double-click of a combo to open a form to >allow editing the data in the table that the combo pulls from. In >addition, if a combo is programmed to perform this behavior, I >dynamically set its label's back color to a specific color. this is a >visual cue that "this combo has the dbl-click behavior activated" > >What kinds of things do you have your controls do? > >John W. Colby >www.ColbyConsulting.com > > >-- >_______________________________________________ >AccessD mailing list >AccessD at databaseadvisors.com >http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd >Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > >-- >_______________________________________________ >AccessD mailing list >AccessD at databaseadvisors.com >http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd >Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com _________________________________________________________________ Free yourself from those irritating pop-up ads with MSn Premium. Get 2months FREE* http://join.msn.com/?pgmarket=en-ca&page=byoa/prem&xAPID=1994&DI=1034&SU=http://hotmail.com/enca&HL=Market_MSNIS_Taglines From jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com Sun Mar 7 06:56:23 2004 From: jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com (John W. Colby) Date: Sun, 7 Mar 2004 07:56:23 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Your favorite control behavior In-Reply-To: Message-ID: >That is almost exactly the way my Notinlist procedure is coded. I also add two parameters, one for the target table to which the record will be added and one for a user name for the type of data to be added. My framework has this functionality built in. The developer programs the framework for each such control in the form's OnOpen with syntax like: With fclsfrm.Children .Item("cboIDCity").NotInListData "tlkpCity", "CI_Name", "lfrmCity" .Item("cboIDPrefix").NotInListData "tlkpPrefix", "PFX_Prefix", "lfrmPrefix" .Item("cboIDSuffix").NotInListData "tlkpSuffix", "SFX_Suffix", "lfrmSuffix" .Item("cboIDCity").DependentSet fclsfrm.Children("cboIDContactCity") .Item("cboIDST").DblClickFormData = "lfrmState" .Item("cboIDContactCity").NotInListData "tlkpCity", "CI_Name", "lfrmCity" .Item("cboIDContactSt").DblClickFormData = "lfrmState" .Item("cboIDContactCity").DependentSet fclsfrm.Children("cboIDCity") End With This is actual code taken from the Open of a form in an application. You can also see the calls to set up "dependent object processing" for combos that have other combos that need requerying when they are changed. For the NotInList processing, as you can see I specify the combo name to find the class for in a collection of classes - .Item("cboIDCity"), then specify a method of that class that I will pass parameters into - .NotInListData, then pass in the table name, field name, and a form to open if the double click is used. If the form is missing, the double click is disabled. If the table and field are missing but the form is there, then the NotInList is disabled. There are tables that a combo can display data from that have multiple fields that may need editing. In addition, my code that opens the form takes the PK of the item currently selected and looks up that record, so that when the form opens it is already on that record waiting to be edited. >I just set a single record recordset for the existing form to the record that is added and it displays the new data in the appropriate field or fields. I tried doing multi-field parsing and such and it just got too messy and confusing to the user. If the table has multiple fields, I open an edit form, take the data the user just typed that wasn't in list and make that data the "default value" of the control on the form for the data displayed in the combo. For example if the user is typing in an SSN of a person ad it is not in list, there are waaaay to many fields to fill in for a new person to just do it without a form, so I open the form in Add mode, and place that SSN in the ssn field on the form. This is all done using the combo control class communicating with the form class. The control class opens the new form and passes in OpenArgs. The form class discovers it has openargs, loads an OpenArgs class which parses the OpenArgs and processes any standard OpenArgs such as the one to find the control and make the data the DefaultValue. >in the On Got Focus entry in the property you could enter: =OnFocus([Screen].[Activecontrol]) Unfortunately doing things that way has several major drawbacks. 1) You can't use the Find in a code module to find everywhere that function is called since the call to the function isn't in code. I realize that it can be found from a search utility such as speedferret or Find and Replace but that means that you now have to switch focus and go to that utility. 2) You can't add other functionality to that event since you are specifying that YOUR function be called. There is no generic event stub for adding additional processing to. 3) Programs such as my framework which need to hook events just write MyCtl.SomeEvent = "[EventProcedure]" in order to hook the event and cause Access to route processing to the event stub. Your custom processing would just disappear now. Using this method is fine if you are the only developer who will ever touch your app (and unfortunately many developers simply don't care about the guy that comes along behind). You know you do that, you love doing that and you are happy with it. God forbid you get hit by a bus and I have to take over maintenance of your app because I will be cursing your name for the rest of the life of that application (or until I get the mess straightened out). >Another nice means to hookup events automatically is to create a control combination, or even a single control, encapsulated on a sub form all by itself. My only problem with using subforms in this manner is the frustration of getting the cursor movement to work correctly. The user is tabbing along filling in data and hits a subform and has to then use special keys to get out of the thing and into the next control to be filled in. A custom class that has all the required processing that your form class has gives me all (most) of the advantages that you mention without the "cursor movement" issues since the control is now in my main form. The only thing I don't get is the "drag and drop and I'm done". I do have to dimension the class, initialize it, and clean it up when I am done. I am so used to using classes now though that this is a 60 second thing. On the other hand, if this really is so generic that I use it all the time, I use a naming convention such that as a combo or list class loads it looks at it's name and hooks in the calls to that class to do the special processing for it. Then you are right back to drag and drop convenience. I do this for the record selector combos at the top of my forms. They use a naming convention and my combo class just "knows" that this is a record selector and when an item is selected in that combo the combo class finds the record selected and causes the form to display it. John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of J?rgen Welz Sent: Sunday, March 07, 2004 1:09 AM To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: RE: [AccessD] Your favorite control behavior That is almost exactly the way my Notinlist procedure is coded. I also add two parameters, one for the target table to which the record will be added and one for a user name for the type of data to be added. I guess the only difference is that I don't open a separate data entry form. I just set a single record recordset for the existing form to the record that is added and it displays the new data in the appropriate field or fields. For things like date fields or lookups, I create them once on a template form and then copy from there to the form on which I need it displayed. Although you can use WithEvents and hook up controls, I haven't found a way to do this with the Notinlist parameters. I have found that just about every event that I may want to use WithEvents for, I can instead create a public function procedure for. For a control that displays a date for which I want a calendar to pop on double click and to change backcolor when it gets focus and revert to a non-focus backcolor when focus is lost, or respond to mouse move events, I can call the public procedure, usually passing in screen.activecontrol by using the function name rather than [eventprocedure] in the property sheet. When I copy and paste a date control from my template form into a new target form, it is completely hooked up to all standard events. Retrieving the form container name only requires the code to check the parent property of the active control. For example, if you open the event property sheet for a conventional textbox, in the On Got Focus entry in the property you could enter: =OnFocus([Screen].[Activecontrol]) and in the On Lost Focus entyr you could enter: =OffFocus([Screen].[Activecontrol]) Then in a public module: Public Function OnFocus(ctl As Control) ctl.BackColor = vbWhite 'or some standard constant End Function Public Function OffFocus(ctl As Control) ctl.BackColor = -2147483633 'or some constant that can be set End Function You can check for control type being a combo and call .DropDown in the OnFocus or write a separate OnFocusCombo procedure. The whole point is that the event procedures are hooked up when you paste a copy of the control as the event properties are copied with the control. Another nice means to hookup events automatically is to create a control combination, or even a single control, encapsulated on a sub form all by itself. The control comes with its own class module in the code behind the subform. I have found this a great way to hookup something like a callback based list of municipalities with a not in list that can be made aware of the need to requery the data array when there is an addition or change to a municipality record. No need to create a new copy of the control on multiple forms, just drag the subform container on and you get format and events all done. Ciao J?rgen Welz Edmonton, Alberta jwelz at hotmail.com >From: "Arthur Fuller" >Reply-To: Access Developers discussion and problem >solving >To: "'Access Developers discussion and problem >solving'" >Subject: RE: [AccessD] Your favorite control behavior >Date: Sat, 6 Mar 2004 22:53:53 -0800 >MIME-Version: 1.0 >Received: from mc2-f12.hotmail.com ([65.54.190.19]) by mc2-s14.hotmail.com >with Microsoft SMTPSVC(5.0.2195.6824); Sat, 6 Mar 2004 19:56:23 -0800 >Received: from databaseadvisors.com ([209.135.140.44]) by >mc2-f12.hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC(5.0.2195.6824); Sat, 6 Mar 2004 >19:56:23 -0800 >Received: from databaseadvisors.com (databaseadvisors.com >[209.135.140.44])by databaseadvisors.com (8.11.6/8.11.6) with ESMTP id >i273tWM26752;Sat, 6 Mar 2004 21:55:32 -0600 >Received: from >fep03-mail.bloor.is.net.cable.rogers.com(fep03-mail.bloor.is.net.cable.roge rs.com >[66.185.86.73])by databaseadvisors.com (8.11.6/8.11.6) with ESMTP id >i273tRM26707for ; Sat, 6 Mar 2004 21:55:27 >-0600 >Received: from rock ([24.153.60.144])by >fep03-mail.bloor.is.net.cable.rogers.com(InterMail vM.5.01.05.12 >201-253-122-126-112-20020820) with ESMTP >id<20040307035516.YGWF411419.fep03-mail.bloor.is.net.cable.rogers.com at rock> for >; Sat, 6 Mar 2004 22:55:16 -0500 >X-Message-Info: jl7Vrt/mfsqz8S4A4C6FS1y0F6nk0vr4 >Message-ID: <016a01c40410$f433f490$6501a8c0 at rock> >X-MSMail-Priority: Normal >X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook, Build 10.0.2627 >X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 >In-Reply-To: >X-Authentication-Info: Submitted using SMTP AUTH LOGIN >atfep03-mail.bloor.is.net.cable.rogers.com from [24.153.60.144]using ID > at Sat, 6 Mar 2004 22:55:16 -0500 >X-BeenThere: accessd at databaseadvisors.com >X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.4 >Precedence: list >List-Id: Access Developers discussion and problem >solving >List-Help: >List-Post: >List-Subscribe: >, >List-Archive: >List-Unsubscribe: >, >Errors-To: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com >Return-Path: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com >X-OriginalArrivalTime: 07 Mar 2004 03:56:23.0073 (UTC) >FILETIME=[27FAB110:01C403F8] > >I have a function called aaNotInList() which takes the same parms as the >NotInList function and adds two new ones -- the name of the form to open >when adding an item, and the "human" name of said entity, the latter >just to pretty up the messagebox that comes up. The functon asks if you >want to add a new "XXX" (4th parm) and if so opens the specified form, >which uses the typical code to hide itself on OK and close itself on >Cancel. Then the function does the usual "add to list and accept the >value" and closes the form. It works great but I still have to type in >that line of code every time I need one. Not that one line of code is a >major hassle, I guess, but can you think of a class-based way to do >this? It might be more fun to do it that way. > >Arthur > >-----Original Message----- >From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com >[mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of John W. Colby >Sent: Saturday, March 06, 2004 1:24 PM >To: AccessD >Subject: [AccessD] Your favorite control behavior > > >I am taking suggestions for control behaviors that you have found useful >and have programmed controls to perform in the past. > >For example I program the back color of combos, lists and text boxes to >change to a given color as they get the focus, and back to their >original color as they lose the focus. This helps to avoid the "where's >the cursor" questions. > >Another example, I program the double-click of a combo to open a form to >allow editing the data in the table that the combo pulls from. In >addition, if a combo is programmed to perform this behavior, I >dynamically set its label's back color to a specific color. this is a >visual cue that "this combo has the dbl-click behavior activated" > >What kinds of things do you have your controls do? > >John W. Colby >www.ColbyConsulting.com > > >-- >_______________________________________________ >AccessD mailing list >AccessD at databaseadvisors.com >http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd >Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > >-- >_______________________________________________ >AccessD mailing list >AccessD at databaseadvisors.com >http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd >Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com _________________________________________________________________ Free yourself from those irritating pop-up ads with MSn Premium. Get 2months FREE* http://join.msn.com/?pgmarket=en-ca&page=byoa/prem&xAPID=1994&DI=1034&SU=htt p://hotmail.com/enca&HL=Market_MSNIS_Taglines -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From gustav at cactus.dk Sun Mar 7 07:09:06 2004 From: gustav at cactus.dk (Gustav Brock) Date: Sun, 7 Mar 2004 14:09:06 +0100 Subject: [AccessD] Info Interesting use of InfoPath In-Reply-To: <3F7A7578.9000007@shaw.ca> References: <3F7AF33E.14003.19E6DAF@localhost> <3F7A7578.9000007@shaw.ca> Message-ID: <1499304128.20040307140906@cactus.dk> Hi Marty et all Also noted this from Mike Gunderloy, classifying it more as an end user tool: "InfoPath is a tool that lets end users create XML files matching a particular schema without ever seeing an angle bracket." http://www.adtmag.com/article.asp?id=8979 /gustav > If you were wondering about uses for InfoPath. > Rather than use Access to link to a webservice. This method with > InfoPath allows a user to quickly link to a webservice via XML with no > coding. The webservice could be a ASP.Net hook to an old Cobol legacy > app to edit or add data.. > Dynamically Data-bind in InfoPath By Thiru Thangarathinam > http://www.developer.com/net/article.php/3082431 From artful at rogers.com Sun Mar 7 13:14:12 2004 From: artful at rogers.com (Arthur Fuller) Date: Sun, 7 Mar 2004 11:14:12 -0800 Subject: [AccessD] Your favorite control behavior In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <01e301c40478$60239db0$6501a8c0@rock> I don't see the advantage to doing it in the OnOpen versus in the NotInList event of the control itself. Either way it's one line of code. Please explain. Arthur -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of John W. Colby Sent: Sunday, March 07, 2004 4:56 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] Your favorite control behavior >That is almost exactly the way my Notinlist procedure is coded. I also >add two parameters, one for the target table to which the record will be added and one for a user name for the type of data to be added. My framework has this functionality built in. The developer programs the framework for each such control in the form's OnOpen with syntax like: With fclsfrm.Children .Item("cboIDCity").NotInListData "tlkpCity", "CI_Name", "lfrmCity" .Item("cboIDPrefix").NotInListData "tlkpPrefix", "PFX_Prefix", "lfrmPrefix" .Item("cboIDSuffix").NotInListData "tlkpSuffix", "SFX_Suffix", "lfrmSuffix" .Item("cboIDCity").DependentSet fclsfrm.Children("cboIDContactCity") .Item("cboIDST").DblClickFormData = "lfrmState" .Item("cboIDContactCity").NotInListData "tlkpCity", "CI_Name", "lfrmCity" .Item("cboIDContactSt").DblClickFormData = "lfrmState" .Item("cboIDContactCity").DependentSet fclsfrm.Children("cboIDCity") End With This is actual code taken from the Open of a form in an application. You can also see the calls to set up "dependent object processing" for combos that have other combos that need requerying when they are changed. For the NotInList processing, as you can see I specify the combo name to find the class for in a collection of classes - .Item("cboIDCity"), then specify a method of that class that I will pass parameters into - .NotInListData, then pass in the table name, field name, and a form to open if the double click is used. If the form is missing, the double click is disabled. If the table and field are missing but the form is there, then the NotInList is disabled. There are tables that a combo can display data from that have multiple fields that may need editing. In addition, my code that opens the form takes the PK of the item currently selected and looks up that record, so that when the form opens it is already on that record waiting to be edited. >I just set a single record recordset for the existing form to the >record that is added and it displays the new data in the appropriate field or fields. I tried doing multi-field parsing and such and it just got too messy and confusing to the user. If the table has multiple fields, I open an edit form, take the data the user just typed that wasn't in list and make that data the "default value" of the control on the form for the data displayed in the combo. For example if the user is typing in an SSN of a person ad it is not in list, there are waaaay to many fields to fill in for a new person to just do it without a form, so I open the form in Add mode, and place that SSN in the ssn field on the form. This is all done using the combo control class communicating with the form class. The control class opens the new form and passes in OpenArgs. The form class discovers it has openargs, loads an OpenArgs class which parses the OpenArgs and processes any standard OpenArgs such as the one to find the control and make the data the DefaultValue. >in the On Got Focus entry in the property you could enter: =OnFocus([Screen].[Activecontrol]) Unfortunately doing things that way has several major drawbacks. 1) You can't use the Find in a code module to find everywhere that function is called since the call to the function isn't in code. I realize that it can be found from a search utility such as speedferret or Find and Replace but that means that you now have to switch focus and go to that utility. 2) You can't add other functionality to that event since you are specifying that YOUR function be called. There is no generic event stub for adding additional processing to. 3) Programs such as my framework which need to hook events just write MyCtl.SomeEvent = "[EventProcedure]" in order to hook the event and cause Access to route processing to the event stub. Your custom processing would just disappear now. Using this method is fine if you are the only developer who will ever touch your app (and unfortunately many developers simply don't care about the guy that comes along behind). You know you do that, you love doing that and you are happy with it. God forbid you get hit by a bus and I have to take over maintenance of your app because I will be cursing your name for the rest of the life of that application (or until I get the mess straightened out). >Another nice means to hookup events automatically is to create a >control combination, or even a single control, encapsulated on a sub form all by itself. My only problem with using subforms in this manner is the frustration of getting the cursor movement to work correctly. The user is tabbing along filling in data and hits a subform and has to then use special keys to get out of the thing and into the next control to be filled in. A custom class that has all the required processing that your form class has gives me all (most) of the advantages that you mention without the "cursor movement" issues since the control is now in my main form. The only thing I don't get is the "drag and drop and I'm done". I do have to dimension the class, initialize it, and clean it up when I am done. I am so used to using classes now though that this is a 60 second thing. On the other hand, if this really is so generic that I use it all the time, I use a naming convention such that as a combo or list class loads it looks at it's name and hooks in the calls to that class to do the special processing for it. Then you are right back to drag and drop convenience. I do this for the record selector combos at the top of my forms. They use a naming convention and my combo class just "knows" that this is a record selector and when an item is selected in that combo the combo class finds the record selected and causes the form to display it. John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of J?rgen Welz Sent: Sunday, March 07, 2004 1:09 AM To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: RE: [AccessD] Your favorite control behavior That is almost exactly the way my Notinlist procedure is coded. I also add two parameters, one for the target table to which the record will be added and one for a user name for the type of data to be added. I guess the only difference is that I don't open a separate data entry form. I just set a single record recordset for the existing form to the record that is added and it displays the new data in the appropriate field or fields. For things like date fields or lookups, I create them once on a template form and then copy from there to the form on which I need it displayed. Although you can use WithEvents and hook up controls, I haven't found a way to do this with the Notinlist parameters. I have found that just about every event that I may want to use WithEvents for, I can instead create a public function procedure for. For a control that displays a date for which I want a calendar to pop on double click and to change backcolor when it gets focus and revert to a non-focus backcolor when focus is lost, or respond to mouse move events, I can call the public procedure, usually passing in screen.activecontrol by using the function name rather than [eventprocedure] in the property sheet. When I copy and paste a date control from my template form into a new target form, it is completely hooked up to all standard events. Retrieving the form container name only requires the code to check the parent property of the active control. For example, if you open the event property sheet for a conventional textbox, in the On Got Focus entry in the property you could enter: =OnFocus([Screen].[Activecontrol]) and in the On Lost Focus entyr you could enter: =OffFocus([Screen].[Activecontrol]) Then in a public module: Public Function OnFocus(ctl As Control) ctl.BackColor = vbWhite 'or some standard constant End Function Public Function OffFocus(ctl As Control) ctl.BackColor = -2147483633 'or some constant that can be set End Function You can check for control type being a combo and call .DropDown in the OnFocus or write a separate OnFocusCombo procedure. The whole point is that the event procedures are hooked up when you paste a copy of the control as the event properties are copied with the control. Another nice means to hookup events automatically is to create a control combination, or even a single control, encapsulated on a sub form all by itself. The control comes with its own class module in the code behind the subform. I have found this a great way to hookup something like a callback based list of municipalities with a not in list that can be made aware of the need to requery the data array when there is an addition or change to a municipality record. No need to create a new copy of the control on multiple forms, just drag the subform container on and you get format and events all done. Ciao J?rgen Welz Edmonton, Alberta jwelz at hotmail.com >From: "Arthur Fuller" >Reply-To: Access Developers discussion and problem >solving >To: "'Access Developers discussion and problem >solving'" >Subject: RE: [AccessD] Your favorite control behavior >Date: Sat, 6 Mar 2004 22:53:53 -0800 >MIME-Version: 1.0 >Received: from mc2-f12.hotmail.com ([65.54.190.19]) by >mc2-s14.hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC(5.0.2195.6824); Sat, 6 Mar >2004 19:56:23 -0800 >Received: from databaseadvisors.com ([209.135.140.44]) by >mc2-f12.hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC(5.0.2195.6824); Sat, 6 Mar 2004 >19:56:23 -0800 >Received: from databaseadvisors.com (databaseadvisors.com >[209.135.140.44])by databaseadvisors.com (8.11.6/8.11.6) with ESMTP id >i273tWM26752;Sat, 6 Mar 2004 21:55:32 -0600 >Received: from >fep03-mail.bloor.is.net.cable.rogers.com(fep03-mail.bloor.is.net.cable. roge rs.com >[66.185.86.73])by databaseadvisors.com (8.11.6/8.11.6) with ESMTP id >i273tRM26707for ; Sat, 6 Mar 2004 >21:55:27 -0600 >Received: from rock ([24.153.60.144])by >fep03-mail.bloor.is.net.cable.rogers.com(InterMail vM.5.01.05.12 >201-253-122-126-112-20020820) with ESMTP >id<20040307035516.YGWF411419.fep03-mail.bloor.is.net.cable.rogers.com at r >ock> for >; Sat, 6 Mar 2004 22:55:16 -0500 >X-Message-Info: jl7Vrt/mfsqz8S4A4C6FS1y0F6nk0vr4 >Message-ID: <016a01c40410$f433f490$6501a8c0 at rock> >X-MSMail-Priority: Normal >X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook, Build 10.0.2627 >X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 >In-Reply-To: >X-Authentication-Info: Submitted using SMTP AUTH LOGIN >atfep03-mail.bloor.is.net.cable.rogers.com from [24.153.60.144]using ID > at Sat, 6 Mar 2004 22:55:16 -0500 >X-BeenThere: accessd at databaseadvisors.com >X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.4 >Precedence: list >List-Id: Access Developers discussion and problem >solving >List-Help: >List-Post: >List-Subscribe: >,requ est at databaseadvisors.com?subject=subscribe> >List-Archive: >List-Unsubscribe: >,requ est at databaseadvisors.com?subject=unsubscribe> >Errors-To: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com >Return-Path: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com >X-OriginalArrivalTime: 07 Mar 2004 03:56:23.0073 (UTC) >FILETIME=[27FAB110:01C403F8] > >I have a function called aaNotInList() which takes the same parms as >the NotInList function and adds two new ones -- the name of the form to >open when adding an item, and the "human" name of said entity, the >latter just to pretty up the messagebox that comes up. The functon asks >if you want to add a new "XXX" (4th parm) and if so opens the specified >form, which uses the typical code to hide itself on OK and close itself >on Cancel. Then the function does the usual "add to list and accept the >value" and closes the form. It works great but I still have to type in >that line of code every time I need one. Not that one line of code is a >major hassle, I guess, but can you think of a class-based way to do >this? It might be more fun to do it that way. > >Arthur > >-----Original Message----- >From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com >[mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of John W. >Colby >Sent: Saturday, March 06, 2004 1:24 PM >To: AccessD >Subject: [AccessD] Your favorite control behavior > > >I am taking suggestions for control behaviors that you have found >useful and have programmed controls to perform in the past. > >For example I program the back color of combos, lists and text boxes to >change to a given color as they get the focus, and back to their >original color as they lose the focus. This helps to avoid the >"where's the cursor" questions. > >Another example, I program the double-click of a combo to open a form >to allow editing the data in the table that the combo pulls from. In >addition, if a combo is programmed to perform this behavior, I >dynamically set its label's back color to a specific color. this is a >visual cue that "this combo has the dbl-click behavior activated" > >What kinds of things do you have your controls do? > >John W. Colby >www.ColbyConsulting.com > > >-- >_______________________________________________ >AccessD mailing list >AccessD at databaseadvisors.com >http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd >Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > >-- >_______________________________________________ >AccessD mailing list >AccessD at databaseadvisors.com >http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd >Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com _________________________________________________________________ Free yourself from those irritating pop-up ads with MSn Premium. Get 2months FREE* http://join.msn.com/?pgmarket=en-ca&page=byoa/prem&xAPID=1994&DI=1034&SU =htt p://hotmail.com/enca&HL=Market_MSNIS_Taglines -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From caa at highway.com.br Sun Mar 7 10:29:19 2004 From: caa at highway.com.br (Carlos Alberto Alves) Date: Sun, 07 Mar 2004 13:29:19 -0300 Subject: [AccessD] report graph to power point In-Reply-To: <00c701c4036e$85a0cb90$67c2f63f@Desktop> References: <00c701c4036e$85a0cb90$67c2f63f@Desktop> Message-ID: On Sat, 6 Mar 2004 06:31:03 -0500, John Eget wrote: > is there a way to export a graph from a report to a power point slide? > John > -- You may use code to export your graph; do not forget the reference to PowerPoint lib. If your graph is in a form, you may also make AutoActivate to "double-click" and Enable to "Yes". You will be able to right-click it, choose Copy and Paste it wherever you want. HTH, -- ****************************** * Carlos Alberto Alves * * Child Neurologist * * Systems Analyst/Programmer * * Rio de Janeiro, Brazil * * mailto:caa at highway.com.br * ****************************** From sgoodhall at comcast.net Sun Mar 7 10:50:47 2004 From: sgoodhall at comcast.net (Steve Goodhall) Date: Sun, 7 Mar 2004 11:50:47 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Offtopic: Word, macros and applying styles to paragraphs In-Reply-To: Message-ID: The quick answer to your question is "yes." Word has a VBA object model every bit as rich as Access. I have a macro that does something close to what you want. Rather than having a hot-key for each style, it has a single hot key that pops up a form containing a list box with style names. The style names are loaded from a text file. Any of this could be changed if you want something with fewer key strokes. If you are interested I could send it to you off-list. I actually have a bunch of Word macros that do various useful things like this. I should get up the initiative to post them on my web site. Regards, Steve Goodhall Senior Project Manager Compuware Corporation steve at goodhall.info -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of John W. Colby Sent: Saturday, March 06, 2004 8:24 AM To: DBA - Tech; AccessD Subject: [AccessD] Offtopic: Word, macros and applying styles to paragraphs I am working on formatting existing word documents to use styles from a document template. I can select text and then click on the style, select the style and apply that style to the selected text. I'm wondering if Word has a "macro" system that I could use to apply hotkeys to macro styles so that I can just tap hotkeys to apply the styles to the paragraphs selected? John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From jwelz at hotmail.com Sun Mar 7 10:57:57 2004 From: jwelz at hotmail.com (Jürgen Welz) Date: Sun, 07 Mar 2004 09:57:57 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] Your favorite control behavior Message-ID: When it comes to subform tabbing you can store the tab index (me.parent.tabindex), do a one time write of cursor navigation code for the subform (for continuous forms for example) and at EOF, iterate the parent's control's tab index properties and set focus to the next one so the user doesn't know he was ever in a subform. Accellerator keys on the labels were an adjunct in the past before I found a really friendly tab order navigation approach for subforms and was fine for users who worked with an application for more than a few weeks. Now many depend on the Accellerators that Access doesn't give you unless you code them, but tabbing in and out of subforms is handled in a transparent manner. Standard functions to change display on or off focus don't require search and replace. If there's a control that can get focus, the handler is there, always. If the control is disabled, it doesn't fire. You can also leave in your own search and replace in a development copy of an mdb and document the usage of property sheet function calls. The function is aware of the control, if screen.activecontrol is passed and the function can be as aware as WithEvents processing that control A requires one kind of processing and control B another, and you can also pass additional parameters if the function is to provide selective functionality. As a general rule, I do not add such additional functionality to fundamental events such as focus. For control arrays such as grids on custom calendar or calculator forms, I find it helpful to hookup the controls by passing in a number that represents the controls position in a grid. For example, a calendar may have 42 labels with mouse click, cursor movement and keyboard navigation events. In a case like this, the controls are in an array of controls in the code behiind the form, lblCal(0 To 41), and the functions are passed the number value of the control (or screen.active control and the number is parsed from the name). In this manner, there is a single event procedure that handles all the buttons or labels for all the controls in the grid. I don't know for a fact, but I would suspect there are 20 'developers' who understand the function call that I use to every 1 who could just start working with your framework. I believe that a client who had to find a developer to take over my application would have very little difficulty finding a replacement for me. I was unsuccessful in using WithEvents to process NotInList in a manner that worked for me. There is not a great deal of multi field parsing involved in my approach. I'll parse names for example, and set a few default values that the user may change. Using single record bound recordsets for a form that displays the kind of record being added, there is no need to change data entry mode because the record is immediately created in the event and the form is navigated to the record for completion. Alternatively, a user can enter a contact from various forms that require an associated contact and often it is enough for an application to have a name when the context from which he was added signifies the kind of contact, the company for which he works and the record to which he is associated. I allow the users to choose to add additional information but it often isn't necessary nor is additional information always required or available. I'm coming to depend more on WithEvents, especially as I move into other programming languages, but I still find it quicker and less code and easier for most 'developers', like the kind you meet at a local Access users group, to understand the way I've been doing it rather than to understand a particular implementation of someone's framework. Ciao J?rgen Welz Edmonton, Alberta jwelz at hotmail.com >From: "John W. Colby" > > >That is almost exactly the way my Notinlist procedure is coded. I also >add >two parameters, one for the target table to which the record will be added >and one for a user name for the type of data to be added. > >My framework has this functionality built in. The developer programs the >framework for each such control in the form's OnOpen with syntax like: > > With fclsfrm.Children > .Item("cboIDCity").NotInListData "tlkpCity", "CI_Name", "lfrmCity" > .Item("cboIDPrefix").NotInListData "tlkpPrefix", "PFX_Prefix", >"lfrmPrefix" > .Item("cboIDSuffix").NotInListData "tlkpSuffix", "SFX_Suffix", >"lfrmSuffix" > .Item("cboIDCity").DependentSet >fclsfrm.Children("cboIDContactCity") > .Item("cboIDST").DblClickFormData = "lfrmState" > .Item("cboIDContactCity").NotInListData "tlkpCity", "CI_Name", >"lfrmCity" > .Item("cboIDContactSt").DblClickFormData = "lfrmState" > .Item("cboIDContactCity").DependentSet >fclsfrm.Children("cboIDCity") > End With > >This is actual code taken from the Open of a form in an application. You >can also see the calls to set up "dependent object processing" for combos >that have other combos that need requerying when they are changed. > >For the NotInList processing, as you can see I specify the combo name to >find the class for in a collection of classes - .Item("cboIDCity"), then >specify a method of that class that I will pass parameters into - >.NotInListData, then pass in the table name, field name, and a form to open >if the double click is used. If the form is missing, the double click is >disabled. If the table and field are missing but the form is there, then >the NotInList is disabled. There are tables that a combo can display data >from that have multiple fields that may need editing. > >In addition, my code that opens the form takes the PK of the item currently >selected and looks up that record, so that when the form opens it is >already >on that record waiting to be edited. > > >I just set a single record recordset for the existing form to the record >that is added and it displays the new data in the appropriate field or >fields. > >I tried doing multi-field parsing and such and it just got too messy and >confusing to the user. If the table has multiple fields, I open an edit >form, take the data the user just typed that wasn't in list and make that >data the "default value" of the control on the form for the data displayed >in the combo. For example if the user is typing in an SSN of a person ad >it >is not in list, there are waaaay to many fields to fill in for a new person >to just do it without a form, so I open the form in Add mode, and place >that >SSN in the ssn field on the form. > >This is all done using the combo control class communicating with the form >class. The control class opens the new form and passes in OpenArgs. The >form class discovers it has openargs, loads an OpenArgs class which parses >the OpenArgs and processes any standard OpenArgs such as the one to find >the >control and make the data the DefaultValue. > > >in the On Got Focus entry in the property you could enter: >=OnFocus([Screen].[Activecontrol]) > >Unfortunately doing things that way has several major drawbacks. > >1) You can't use the Find in a code module to find everywhere that function >is called since the call to the function isn't in code. I realize that it >can be found from a search utility such as speedferret or Find and Replace >but that means that you now have to switch focus and go to that utility. > >2) You can't add other functionality to that event since you are specifying >that YOUR function be called. There is no generic event stub for adding >additional processing to. > >3) Programs such as my framework which need to hook events just write >MyCtl.SomeEvent = "[EventProcedure]" in order to hook the event and cause >Access to route processing to the event stub. Your custom processing would >just disappear now. > >Using this method is fine if you are the only developer who will ever touch >your app (and unfortunately many developers simply don't care about the guy >that comes along behind). You know you do that, you love doing that and >you >are happy with it. God forbid you get hit by a bus and I have to take over >maintenance of your app because I will be cursing your name for the rest of >the life of that application (or until I get the mess straightened out). > > >Another nice means to hookup events automatically is to create a control >combination, or even a single control, encapsulated on a sub form all by >itself. > >My only problem with using subforms in this manner is the frustration of >getting the cursor movement to work correctly. The user is tabbing along >filling in data and hits a subform and has to then use special keys to get >out of the thing and into the next control to be filled in. A custom class >that has all the required processing that your form class has gives me all >(most) of the advantages that you mention without the "cursor movement" >issues since the control is now in my main form. The only thing I don't >get >is the "drag and drop and I'm done". I do have to dimension the class, >initialize it, and clean it up when I am done. I am so used to using >classes now though that this is a 60 second thing. > >On the other hand, if this really is so generic that I use it all the time, >I use a naming convention such that as a combo or list class loads it looks >at it's name and hooks in the calls to that class to do the special >processing for it. Then you are right back to drag and drop convenience. >I >do this for the record selector combos at the top of my forms. They use a >naming convention and my combo class just "knows" that this is a record >selector and when an item is selected in that combo the combo class finds >the record selected and causes the form to display it. > >John W. Colby >www.ColbyConsulting.com > >-----Original Message----- >From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com >[mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of J?rgen Welz >Sent: Sunday, March 07, 2004 1:09 AM >To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com >Subject: RE: [AccessD] Your favorite control behavior > > >That is almost exactly the way my Notinlist procedure is coded. I also add >two parameters, one for the target table to which the record will be added >and one for a user name for the type of data to be added. I guess the only >difference is that I don't open a separate data entry form. I just set a >single record recordset for the existing form to the record that is added >and it displays the new data in the appropriate field or fields. > >For things like date fields or lookups, I create them once on a template >form and then copy from there to the form on which I need it displayed. >Although you can use WithEvents and hook up controls, I haven't found a way >to do this with the Notinlist parameters. I have found that just about >every event that I may want to use WithEvents for, I can instead create a >public function procedure for. For a control that displays a date for >which >I want a calendar to pop on double click and to change backcolor when it >gets focus and revert to a non-focus backcolor when focus is lost, or >respond to mouse move events, I can call the public procedure, usually >passing in screen.activecontrol by using the function name rather than >[eventprocedure] in the property sheet. When I copy and paste a date >control from my template form into a new target form, it is completely >hooked up to all standard events. Retrieving the form container name only >requires the code to check the parent property of the active control. For >example, if you open the event property sheet for a conventional textbox, >in >the On Got Focus entry in the property you could enter: > >=OnFocus([Screen].[Activecontrol]) > >and in the On Lost Focus entyr you could enter: > >=OffFocus([Screen].[Activecontrol]) > >Then in a public module: > >Public Function OnFocus(ctl As Control) > ctl.BackColor = vbWhite 'or some standard constant >End Function >Public Function OffFocus(ctl As Control) > ctl.BackColor = -2147483633 'or some constant that can be set >End Function > >You can check for control type being a combo and call .DropDown in the >OnFocus or write a separate OnFocusCombo procedure. The whole point is >that >the event procedures are hooked up when you paste a copy of the control as >the event properties are copied with the control. > >Another nice means to hookup events automatically is to create a control >combination, or even a single control, encapsulated on a sub form all by >itself. The control comes with its own class module in the code behind the >subform. I have found this a great way to hookup something like a callback >based list of municipalities with a not in list that can be made aware of >the need to requery the data array when there is an addition or change to a >municipality record. No need to create a new copy of the control on >multiple forms, just drag the subform container on and you get format and >events all done. > >Ciao >J?rgen Welz >Edmonton, Alberta >jwelz at hotmail.com > > > > > > >From: "Arthur Fuller" > > > >I have a function called aaNotInList() which takes the same parms as the > >NotInList function and adds two new ones -- the name of the form to open > >when adding an item, and the "human" name of said entity, the latter > >just to pretty up the messagebox that comes up. The functon asks if you > >want to add a new "XXX" (4th parm) and if so opens the specified form, > >which uses the typical code to hide itself on OK and close itself on > >Cancel. Then the function does the usual "add to list and accept the > >value" and closes the form. It works great but I still have to type in > >that line of code every time I need one. Not that one line of code is a > >major hassle, I guess, but can you think of a class-based way to do > >this? It might be more fun to do it that way. > > > >Arthur _________________________________________________________________ MSN Premium includes powerful parental controls and get 2 months FREE* http://join.msn.com/?pgmarket=en-ca&page=byoa/prem&xAPID=1994&DI=1034&SU=http://hotmail.com/enca&HL=Market_MSNIS_Taglines From jwelz at hotmail.com Sun Mar 7 12:11:32 2004 From: jwelz at hotmail.com (Jürgen Welz) Date: Sun, 07 Mar 2004 11:11:32 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] Your favorite control behavior Message-ID: I typed my last response with air code but neglected to say that my tabbing in and out of subforms depends on knowing the name of the subform control on the parent. I use a naming convention prefixing 's' to the name of the form name that is used as a subform to make this work. Me.Parent("s" & Me.Name).TabIndex is used to return he the subform control's TabIndex to the sub form. Ciao J?rgen Welz Edmonton, Alberta jwelz at hotmail.com _________________________________________________________________ Add photos to your e-mail with MSN Premium. Get 2 months FREE* http://join.msn.com/?pgmarket=en-ca&page=byoa/prem&xAPID=1994&DI=1034&SU=http://hotmail.com/enca&HL=Market_MSNIS_Taglines From artful at rogers.com Sun Mar 7 17:48:55 2004 From: artful at rogers.com (Arthur Fuller) Date: Sun, 7 Mar 2004 15:48:55 -0800 Subject: [AccessD] Combo-box control tip Message-ID: <01e901c4049e$c1336010$6501a8c0@rock> I added some control-tip text to several combo-boxes, but the text doesn't appear no matter how long I linger there the controltip does not appear. I've copied the text into the status bar so I can fake it for now, but I'd much rather have the control tip working. What am I doing wrong? I assume that since control tip is supported in the properties window that it actually works. Na?ve? Arthur From starkey at wanadoo.nl Sun Mar 7 15:34:24 2004 From: starkey at wanadoo.nl (StaRKeY) Date: Sun, 7 Mar 2004 22:34:24 +0100 Subject: [AccessD] Combo-box control tip In-Reply-To: <01e901c4049e$c1336010$6501a8c0@rock> Message-ID: Hi Arthur have you tried the format option 'bring to front'? Regards, Eric Starkenburg Starkenburg Office Solutions -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Arthur Fuller Sent: maandag 8 maart 2004 00:49 To: AccessD Subject: [AccessD] Combo-box control tip I added some control-tip text to several combo-boxes, but the text doesn't appear no matter how long I linger there the controltip does not appear. I've copied the text into the status bar so I can fake it for now, but I'd much rather have the control tip working. What am I doing wrong? I assume that since control tip is supported in the properties window that it actually works. Na?ve? Arthur -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com --- avast! Antivirus: Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 0403-2, 03/05/2004 Tested on: 7-3-2004 22:34:24 avast! is copyright (c) 2000-2003 ALWIL Software. http://www.avast.com From starkey at wanadoo.nl Sun Mar 7 15:36:02 2004 From: starkey at wanadoo.nl (StaRKeY) Date: Sun, 7 Mar 2004 22:36:02 +0100 Subject: [AccessD] Combo-box control tip In-Reply-To: <01e901c4049e$c1336010$6501a8c0@rock> Message-ID: Another thing just popped to mind... does the form has a specific state like pop-up orso, if so you might have to change this but I'm not sure. Regards, Eric -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Arthur Fuller Sent: maandag 8 maart 2004 00:49 To: AccessD Subject: [AccessD] Combo-box control tip I added some control-tip text to several combo-boxes, but the text doesn't appear no matter how long I linger there the controltip does not appear. I've copied the text into the status bar so I can fake it for now, but I'd much rather have the control tip working. What am I doing wrong? I assume that since control tip is supported in the properties window that it actually works. Na?ve? Arthur -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com --- avast! Antivirus: Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 0403-2, 03/05/2004 Tested on: 7-3-2004 22:36:02 avast! is copyright (c) 2000-2003 ALWIL Software. http://www.avast.com From jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com Sun Mar 7 16:09:44 2004 From: jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com (John W. Colby) Date: Sun, 7 Mar 2004 17:09:44 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Your favorite control behavior In-Reply-To: <01e301c40478$60239db0$6501a8c0@rock> Message-ID: Arthur, As I have been discussing in my emails lately I use a framework with various classes. One of these is dclsFrm which is the form class. In OnOpen of the form I set up the form. Once dclsFrm is initialized it has scanned for all the controls and loaded a class for each control. If I need to "program" the control classes, I then do so immediately after initializing the dclsFrm. The whole form header looks like (error handler stripped out for readability): Option Compare Database Option Explicit Public WithEvents fclsfrm As dclsFrm Private Sub Form_Open(Cancel As Integer) Set fclsfrm = New dclsFrm fclsfrm.Init Nothing, Me, Cancel If Cancel Then Exit Sub With fclsfrm.Children .Item("cboIDCity").NotInListData "tlkpCity", "CI_Name", "lfrmCity" .Item("cboIDPrefix").NotInListData "tlkpPrefix", "PFX_Prefix", "lfrmPrefix" .Item("cboIDSuffix").NotInListData "tlkpSuffix", "SFX_Suffix", "lfrmSuffix" .Item("cboIDCity").DependentSet fclsfrm.Children("cboIDContactCity") .Item("cboIDST").DblClickFormData = "lfrmState" .Item("cboIDContactCity").NotInListData "tlkpCity", "CI_Name", "lfrmCity" .Item("cboIDContactSt").DblClickFormData = "lfrmState" .Item("cboIDContactCity").DependentSet fclsfrm.Children("cboIDCity") End With End Sub Thus I dimension dclsFrm Withevents (it can raise events that I may want to sink in the form's class). I set the class to a new instance. Set fclsfrm = New dclsFrm I initialize the dclsfrm passing in Me and the Cancel variable so the Init can cancel the opening of the form if necessary. fclsfrm.Init Nothing, Me, Cancel If dclsFrm sets cancel true I exit the sub and allow the form to close If Cancel Then Exit Sub If I get to that point (cancel is not returned true) then I MAY "set up" various control classes. In this case I am setting up NotInList and dblClick events for cboIDCity, cboIDPrefix, cboIDSuffix, and cboIDContactCity. I am also setting up Dependent combos for cboIDCity (cboIDContactCity may change if any changes are made to the city table) and cboIDContactCity (cboIDCity may change if any changes are made to cboIDContactCity ). With fclsfrm.Children .Item("cboIDCity").NotInListData "tlkpCity", "CI_Name", "lfrmCity" .Item("cboIDPrefix").NotInListData "tlkpPrefix", "PFX_Prefix", "lfrmPrefix" .Item("cboIDSuffix").NotInListData "tlkpSuffix", "SFX_Suffix", "lfrmSuffix" .Item("cboIDCity").DependentSet fclsfrm.Children("cboIDContactCity") .Item("cboIDST").DblClickFormData = "lfrmState" .Item("cboIDContactCity").NotInListData "tlkpCity", "CI_Name", "lfrmCity" .Item("cboIDContactSt").DblClickFormData = "lfrmState" .Item("cboIDContactCity").DependentSet fclsfrm.Children("cboIDCity") End With End Sub dclsFrm.children is filled with pointers to all classes that it initializes, and the contents of that collection are keyed on the control name, thus I can just "look up" the class by indexing into the collection with the control name. John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Arthur Fuller Sent: Sunday, March 07, 2004 2:14 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: [AccessD] Your favorite control behavior I don't see the advantage to doing it in the OnOpen versus in the NotInList event of the control itself. Either way it's one line of code. Please explain. Arthur From d.dick at uws.edu.au Sun Mar 7 16:31:41 2004 From: d.dick at uws.edu.au (Darren DICK) Date: Mon, 8 Mar 2004 09:31:41 +1100 Subject: [AccessD] Combo-box control tip References: <01e901c4049e$c1336010$6501a8c0@rock> Message-ID: <00a301c40493$f6c2c640$48619a89@DDICK> Hi Arthur have discovered the same thing from time to time Some controls work fine on other apps they don't Try the mouse move event Me.Combo.ControlTipText = "Testing" or something similar Darren ----- Original Message ----- From: "Arthur Fuller" To: "AccessD" Sent: Monday, March 08, 2004 10:48 AM Subject: [AccessD] Combo-box control tip > I added some control-tip text to several combo-boxes, but the text > doesn't appear no matter how long I linger there the controltip does not > appear. I've copied the text into the status bar so I can fake it for > now, but I'd much rather have the control tip working. What am I doing > wrong? I assume that since control tip is supported in the properties > window that it actually works. Na?ve? > > Arthur > > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From jwelz at hotmail.com Sun Mar 7 17:00:40 2004 From: jwelz at hotmail.com (Jürgen Welz) Date: Sun, 07 Mar 2004 16:00:40 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] Your favorite control behavior Message-ID: Correct me if I'm mistaken, but my understanding is that a form has it's own class which you can multi instance in various ways and in which you can create property procedures and do any thing else one can do in a class of your own. It sounds not like you are creating a form class but a separate class to shadow the form class. The downside is needing to know the name of a control in order to be able to operate with it. The advantage of hooking up all default behaviors with a function is that you can pass the procedure a reference to the actual control for which the event is triggered so there is no need for collections or code to run on the form open event. Every copy/paste of a control is automatically hooked up to the standard events without ever writing any code except the single function procedures that all copies of the control trigger. You can override the 'inherited' behaviour by changing the function, writing a specific event procedure or passing in one or more additional optional parameters. Correct me again if I'm mistaken, but this facility to hook up events has been around since Access 1 whereas WithEvents is somewhat newer and more esoteric and less universally understood or used. I suspect that developers coming from a Visual Basic background are less familiar with the advantages of this approach, particularly when they bemoan the lack of control arrays. I suspect this facility is the reason that control arrays were never needed in Access. Like Arthur, it looks to me like you write a great deal more code than the one line each of us uses to hook a contol to a common not in list procedure because you need to write and maintain the framework. Ciao J?rgen Welz Edmonton, Alberta jwelz at hotmail.com >From: "John W. Colby" > >Arthur, > >As I have been discussing in my emails lately I use a framework with >various >classes. One of these is dclsFrm which is the form class. In OnOpen of >the >form I set up the form. Once dclsFrm is initialized it has scanned for all >the controls and loaded a class for each control. If I need to "program" >the control classes, I then do so immediately after initializing the >dclsFrm. The whole form header looks like (error handler stripped out for >readability): > >Option Compare Database >Option Explicit >Public WithEvents fclsfrm As dclsFrm > >Private Sub Form_Open(Cancel As Integer) > Set fclsfrm = New dclsFrm > fclsfrm.Init Nothing, Me, Cancel > If Cancel Then Exit Sub > With fclsfrm.Children > .Item("cboIDCity").NotInListData "tlkpCity", "CI_Name", "lfrmCity" > .Item("cboIDPrefix").NotInListData "tlkpPrefix", "PFX_Prefix", >"lfrmPrefix" > .Item("cboIDSuffix").NotInListData "tlkpSuffix", "SFX_Suffix", >"lfrmSuffix" > .Item("cboIDCity").DependentSet >fclsfrm.Children("cboIDContactCity") > .Item("cboIDST").DblClickFormData = "lfrmState" > .Item("cboIDContactCity").NotInListData "tlkpCity", "CI_Name", >"lfrmCity" > .Item("cboIDContactSt").DblClickFormData = "lfrmState" > .Item("cboIDContactCity").DependentSet >fclsfrm.Children("cboIDCity") > End With >End Sub > >Thus I dimension dclsFrm Withevents (it can raise events that I may want to >sink in the form's class). > >I set the class to a new instance. > > Set fclsfrm = New dclsFrm > >I initialize the dclsfrm passing in Me and the Cancel variable so the Init >can cancel the opening of the form if necessary. > > fclsfrm.Init Nothing, Me, Cancel > >If dclsFrm sets cancel true I exit the sub and allow the form to close > > If Cancel Then Exit Sub > >If I get to that point (cancel is not returned true) then I MAY "set up" >various control classes. In this case I am setting up NotInList and >dblClick events for cboIDCity, cboIDPrefix, cboIDSuffix, and >cboIDContactCity. I am also setting up Dependent combos for cboIDCity >(cboIDContactCity may change if any changes are made to the city table) and >cboIDContactCity (cboIDCity may change if any changes are made to >cboIDContactCity ). > > With fclsfrm.Children > .Item("cboIDCity").NotInListData "tlkpCity", "CI_Name", "lfrmCity" > .Item("cboIDPrefix").NotInListData "tlkpPrefix", "PFX_Prefix", >"lfrmPrefix" > .Item("cboIDSuffix").NotInListData "tlkpSuffix", "SFX_Suffix", >"lfrmSuffix" > .Item("cboIDCity").DependentSet >fclsfrm.Children("cboIDContactCity") > .Item("cboIDST").DblClickFormData = "lfrmState" > .Item("cboIDContactCity").NotInListData "tlkpCity", "CI_Name", >"lfrmCity" > .Item("cboIDContactSt").DblClickFormData = "lfrmState" > .Item("cboIDContactCity").DependentSet >fclsfrm.Children("cboIDCity") > End With >End Sub > >dclsFrm.children is filled with pointers to all classes that it >initializes, >and the contents of that collection are keyed on the control name, thus I >can just "look up" the class by indexing into the collection with the >control name. > > >John W. Colby >www.ColbyConsulting.com > >-----Original Message----- >From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com >[mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Arthur Fuller >Sent: Sunday, March 07, 2004 2:14 PM >To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' >Subject: RE: [AccessD] Your favorite control behavior > > >I don't see the advantage to doing it in the OnOpen versus in the >NotInList event of the control itself. Either way it's one line of code. >Please explain. > >Arthur _________________________________________________________________ http://join.msn.com/?pgmarket=en-ca&page=byoa/prem&xAPID=1994&DI=1034&SU=http://hotmail.com/enca&HL=Market_MSNIS_Taglines From jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com Sun Mar 7 19:48:34 2004 From: jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com (John W. Colby) Date: Sun, 7 Mar 2004 20:48:34 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Your favorite control behavior In-Reply-To: Message-ID: >Correct me if I'm mistaken, but my understanding is that a form has it's own class which you can multi instance in various ways and in which you can create property procedures and do any thing else one can do in a class of your own. It sounds not like you are creating a form class but a separate class to shadow the form class. Yep, you are correct. >The downside is needing to know the name of a control in order to be able to operate with it. To program certain functionality (such as passing in the table / field / form to a combo for NotInList) that is correct. >The advantage of hooking up all default behaviors with a function is that you can pass the procedure a reference to the actual control for which the event is triggered so there is no need for collections or code to run on the form open event. I see no advantage there. My form class scans all of my controls and loads a class for each control. That class hooks up all the functionality for them. I don't have to "make sure" I have cut the control from the right place so that stuff is in the event properties. >Every copy/paste of a control is automatically hooked up to the standard events without ever writing any code except the single function procedures that all copies of the control trigger. So you have replaced writing a few lines of code in the Form's Open (standard, can be cut and pasted) with dozens of cuts and pastes of controls onto the form? Hmmm..... I can definitely see how this might be better.... >You can override the 'inherited' behavior by changing the function, writing a specific event procedure or passing in one or more additional optional parameters. Of course you can. So can I using my framework and control classes. >Correct me again if I'm mistaken, but this facility to hook up events has been around since Access 1 whereas WithEvents is somewhat newer and more esoteric and less universally understood or used. That's like saying "The car has been around a lot less time than the horse so why are we using a car". Sure, Withevents were not around when Access 1.0 came out, and of course this is not applicable to 1.0. More powerful tools are handed to us year after year. To say I am not going to use it because it wasn't available in 1.0 is silly and prevents adapting some very powerful tools. Jurgen, I could care less whether you want to use this stuff. I could care less whether you love hooking functions straight up to the event property. That is an option, and if that is the tool you choose to use, that is your business. I have explained to you why I don't touch that stuff, and why, when I have to take over an app where the previous developer uses that method it pains me greatly. I used to use it, don't get me wrong, it's just that there are tons of disadvantages and only one advantage, your "cut and paste" advantage. That "cut and paste" advantage isn't sufficient in my mind to overcome the disadvantages. In fact that advantage has been neatly replaced by Withevents in classes! You have a SINGLE function that you hook to a property, and you have a bunch of functions that you hook to a bunch of properties. I have a class that I pass a control to. I sink the events in that class, then call various functions of the class from those events. The results are similar, but not identical. I can for instance, turn on/off the behaviors using sysvars. My good friend William Hindman was using some stuff of mine and didn't like some specific things I was doing. I simply "switched it off" for him. Nothing more than "go in the sysvar table and set this sysvar = false. His system didn't use that behavior anymore. Try THAT with your method. A framework is waaaay more than just a function hooked to an event, or even a bunch of functions hooked to a bunch of events. It is a whole system that works together. My control classes talk to the form class. The form class loads SysVars that turn on and off functionality of the framework. I can override a given functionality for the entire application, or just for a given form in the application. The control classes "talk to" the form class and ask whether they should exhibit this behavior? The control class simply doesn't care whether the behavior is turned on / off for the entire application or just this form, all they care about is that they are supposed to exhibit the behavior THIS TIME, RIGHT NOW. Tomorrow the user might want the behavior and I go turn it on using a SysVar. TRY THAT with your "cut and paste" stuff!!! >Like Arthur, it looks to me like you write a great deal more code than the one line each of us uses to hook a control to a common not in list procedure because you need to write and maintain the framework. You are 100% correct. I do write a whole lot more code than you do. In fact I write almost EXACTLY the same code you do, I just make it a part of a whole system rather than an isolated thing that happens. The "way more code" is the stuff required to tie it in and make it a system. When I design a form I don't "cut and paste" a bunch of controls so that they get hooked up properly. My form class loads control classes that hook everything up for me automatically. Whether I have one or a hundred combos on a form, every one can, if it needs it, have any of the various behaviors that the combo class provides. Why in the world would I go somewhere, "cut a control" and paste it in the form a hundred times? Furthermore I can take ANY form, load a form class in that form's Open and have all of my stuff just automatically applied to all of the controls on that form! All the combos suddenly know how to do combo stuff, all the text boxes suddenly know how to do text box stuff. If a given combo needs NotInList (and MANY don't), then a single line of code passes in the correct table / field / form for that combo to know how to do it. Try THAT with your "cut and paste" stuff! I seem to remember butting heads with you in the past. You were always about "the last ounce of (application) speed", and I simply don't care about that last ounce. I am more about speed of development and ease of maintenance. Your "cut and paste" does allow lightweight forms. I could care less. If that is what this is all about, I will hand you your "speed advantage" and you can walk away the winner. I will take my speed of development and ease of maintenance and I too will walk away a winner. I understand what you are doing, I have done it that way in the distant past. Listen to what I am trying to explain where frameworks are concerned, read it, UNDERSTAND it (ALL OF IT), and then if you still love your "cut and paste" stuff... "may the force be with you". And may I never have to maintain your apps! John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of J?rgen Welz Sent: Sunday, March 07, 2004 6:01 PM To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: RE: [AccessD] Your favorite control behavior Correct me if I'm mistaken, but my understanding is that a form has it's own class which you can multi instance in various ways and in which you can create property procedures and do any thing else one can do in a class of your own. It sounds not like you are creating a form class but a separate class to shadow the form class. The downside is needing to know the name of a control in order to be able to operate with it. The advantage of hooking up all default behaviors with a function is that you can pass the procedure a reference to the actual control for which the event is triggered so there is no need for collections or code to run on the form open event. Every copy/paste of a control is automatically hooked up to the standard events without ever writing any code except the single function procedures that all copies of the control trigger. You can override the 'inherited' behaviour by changing the function, writing a specific event procedure or passing in one or more additional optional parameters. Correct me again if I'm mistaken, but this facility to hook up events has been around since Access 1 whereas WithEvents is somewhat newer and more esoteric and less universally understood or used. I suspect that developers coming from a Visual Basic background are less familiar with the advantages of this approach, particularly when they bemoan the lack of control arrays. I suspect this facility is the reason that control arrays were never needed in Access. Like Arthur, it looks to me like you write a great deal more code than the one line each of us uses to hook a contol to a common not in list procedure because you need to write and maintain the framework. Ciao J?rgen Welz Edmonton, Alberta jwelz at hotmail.com From jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com Sun Mar 7 20:31:52 2004 From: jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com (John W. Colby) Date: Sun, 7 Mar 2004 21:31:52 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Your favorite control behavior In-Reply-To: Message-ID: >When it comes to subform tabbing you can store the tab index (me.parent.tabindex), do a one time write of cursor navigation code for the subform (for continuous forms for example) and at EOF, iterate the parent's control's tab index properties and set focus to the next one so the user doesn't know he was ever in a subform. Sounds like one for the framework! Thanks. >Accelerator keys on the labels were an adjunct in the past before I found a really friendly tab order navigation approach for subforms and was fine for users who worked with an application for more than a few weeks. Yes, they are very useful and I use them a lot in my applications . >Now many depend on the Accelerators that Access doesn't give you unless you code them, but tabbing in and out of subforms is handled in a transparent manner. I'll try and figure out what you are talking about. It would be handy to have this. >Standard functions to change display on or off focus don't require search and replace. Any call to a function that is stored directly in a control property requires a search and replace tool to find where it is used. If I am writing code and want to find them, and they are in event stubs - in a class or directly in the form - I can just use the binoculars. If they are in control properties I can't do that. That is disruptive to my work method. >If there's a control that can get focus, the handler is there, always. As it is in my framework. >If the control is disabled, it doesn't fire. Likewise in my framework. >You can also leave in your own search and replace in a development copy of an mdb and document the usage of property sheet function calls. I document these things in a central code repository where all code for a given type of control is stored... the control's class. >The function is aware of the control, if screen.activecontrol is passed and the function can be as aware as WithEvents processing that control A requires one kind of processing and control B another, and you can also pass additional parameters if the function is to provide selective functionality. Of course. But then again in order to change what a given control does you have to go in to the property on that control and do stuff... To change a hundred controls on two dozen forms requires a LOT of hunting and searching. Does this combo on this form use that? Yep. How about this one on that form... nope. This one? Yep. That one... OK, break out the Find and replace and sit there looking at each one to decide... Remember, I've done all that stuff, and I choose not to. I know exactly what you are up to, I used that method for about 6 years until a better (IMHO) tool came along. No, I stopped hooking up events directly to code LONG before that but I was still just calling functions in libraries (from event stubs in the form's class). That works. In fact I built an entire wizard to insert event hooks to call my functions at the tap of a hot key. Been there, cone that, never go back! >I don't know for a fact, but I would suspect there are 20 'developers' who understand the function call that I use to every 1 who could just start working with your framework. I'd bet the ratio was a bit closer to 10,000 to one. On the other hand I'd bet that about 10,000 times as many people could feed and groom a horse as could fix their car. And I've seen some of your code as well Jurgen, it caused MY eyes to cross (and I'm no lightweight when it comes to code). >I'm coming to depend more on WithEvents, especially as I move into other programming languages, but I still find it quicker and less code and easier for most 'developers', like the kind you meet at a local Access users group, to understand the way I've been doing it rather than to understand a particular implementation of someone's framework. Of that I have no doubt. I have frequented many users groups, and to put "developers" in quotes is entirely reasonable. Whether I used a framework or not, I doubt that many of those "developers" are capable of maintaining my (or your) work. That is no reason not to use a framework. You see, the thing is that with a framework, making a form do (generic) things is a few lines of code in the form's OnOpen. Open any of my forms, and you can just read what is being hooked up. I don't spend any time at all getting not in lists going, nor dependent combos, nor JIT subforms, data validation, filtered recordsets, and the dozens of other behaviors that my framework provides. When you build a form you have to define the form's recordset. You have to get specific controls on the form and arrange them. You have to do the design work of THAT form. My framework doesn't eliminate any of that, I still have to do that. Once I have that done, I just add a few lines of code in the OnOpen to set up specific control behaviors that need parameters. If you walk in to my shop because I was killed by a bus and can't figure out my framework, you can just delete a few lines of code and all that stuff goes away and you can tie in your own. There's nothing magical about what I am doing. My NotInList looks pretty much like yours, it's just that mine is embedded in my framework and I don't have to cut and paste controls from somewhere to get it. A line of code passing the table / field / form and that control has that functionality turned on. Without it, the functionality is turned off. Take out the class init stuff entirely and THAT form loses all of the framework's functionality. How do I go about stripping it our of your form when I take over your stuff and hate what you are doing? I know the answer because I have taken over systems with the function calls embedded in control properties. The answer is NOT PRETTY! I was finding function calls in properties for YEARS afterwards. To each his own, and you obviously are happy with what you are doing. I do not like that way of doing things, I have done it that way, I stopped doing it that way, and I will never go back to doing it that way. And when I have to maintain a system where that method was used, my price goes up! John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of J?rgen Welz Sent: Sunday, March 07, 2004 11:58 AM To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: RE: [AccessD] Your favorite control behavior When it comes to subform tabbing you can store the tab index (me.parent.tabindex), do a one time write of cursor navigation code for the subform (for continuous forms for example) and at EOF, iterate the parent's control's tab index properties and set focus to the next one so the user doesn't know he was ever in a subform. Accellerator keys on the labels were an adjunct in the past before I found a really friendly tab order navigation approach for subforms and was fine for users who worked with an application for more than a few weeks. Now many depend on the Accellerators that Access doesn't give you unless you code them, but tabbing in and out of subforms is handled in a transparent manner. Standard functions to change display on or off focus don't require search and replace. If there's a control that can get focus, the handler is there, always. If the control is disabled, it doesn't fire. You can also leave in your own search and replace in a development copy of an mdb and document the usage of property sheet function calls. The function is aware of the control, if screen.activecontrol is passed and the function can be as aware as WithEvents processing that control A requires one kind of processing and control B another, and you can also pass additional parameters if the function is to provide selective functionality. As a general rule, I do not add such additional functionality to fundamental events such as focus. For control arrays such as grids on custom calendar or calculator forms, I find it helpful to hookup the controls by passing in a number that represents the controls position in a grid. For example, a calendar may have 42 labels with mouse click, cursor movement and keyboard navigation events. In a case like this, the controls are in an array of controls in the code behiind the form, lblCal(0 To 41), and the functions are passed the number value of the control (or screen.active control and the number is parsed from the name). In this manner, there is a single event procedure that handles all the buttons or labels for all the controls in the grid. I don't know for a fact, but I would suspect there are 20 'developers' who understand the function call that I use to every 1 who could just start working with your framework. I believe that a client who had to find a developer to take over my application would have very little difficulty finding a replacement for me. I was unsuccessful in using WithEvents to process NotInList in a manner that worked for me. There is not a great deal of multi field parsing involved in my approach. I'll parse names for example, and set a few default values that the user may change. Using single record bound recordsets for a form that displays the kind of record being added, there is no need to change data entry mode because the record is immediately created in the event and the form is navigated to the record for completion. Alternatively, a user can enter a contact from various forms that require an associated contact and often it is enough for an application to have a name when the context from which he was added signifies the kind of contact, the company for which he works and the record to which he is associated. I allow the users to choose to add additional information but it often isn't necessary nor is additional information always required or available. I'm coming to depend more on WithEvents, especially as I move into other programming languages, but I still find it quicker and less code and easier for most 'developers', like the kind you meet at a local Access users group, to understand the way I've been doing it rather than to understand a particular implementation of someone's framework. Ciao J?rgen Welz Edmonton, Alberta jwelz at hotmail.com >From: "John W. Colby" > > >That is almost exactly the way my Notinlist procedure is coded. I also >add >two parameters, one for the target table to which the record will be added >and one for a user name for the type of data to be added. > >My framework has this functionality built in. The developer programs the >framework for each such control in the form's OnOpen with syntax like: > > With fclsfrm.Children > .Item("cboIDCity").NotInListData "tlkpCity", "CI_Name", "lfrmCity" > .Item("cboIDPrefix").NotInListData "tlkpPrefix", "PFX_Prefix", >"lfrmPrefix" > .Item("cboIDSuffix").NotInListData "tlkpSuffix", "SFX_Suffix", >"lfrmSuffix" > .Item("cboIDCity").DependentSet >fclsfrm.Children("cboIDContactCity") > .Item("cboIDST").DblClickFormData = "lfrmState" > .Item("cboIDContactCity").NotInListData "tlkpCity", "CI_Name", >"lfrmCity" > .Item("cboIDContactSt").DblClickFormData = "lfrmState" > .Item("cboIDContactCity").DependentSet >fclsfrm.Children("cboIDCity") > End With > >This is actual code taken from the Open of a form in an application. You >can also see the calls to set up "dependent object processing" for combos >that have other combos that need requerying when they are changed. > >For the NotInList processing, as you can see I specify the combo name to >find the class for in a collection of classes - .Item("cboIDCity"), then >specify a method of that class that I will pass parameters into - >.NotInListData, then pass in the table name, field name, and a form to open >if the double click is used. If the form is missing, the double click is >disabled. If the table and field are missing but the form is there, then >the NotInList is disabled. There are tables that a combo can display data >from that have multiple fields that may need editing. > >In addition, my code that opens the form takes the PK of the item currently >selected and looks up that record, so that when the form opens it is >already >on that record waiting to be edited. > > >I just set a single record recordset for the existing form to the record >that is added and it displays the new data in the appropriate field or >fields. > >I tried doing multi-field parsing and such and it just got too messy and >confusing to the user. If the table has multiple fields, I open an edit >form, take the data the user just typed that wasn't in list and make that >data the "default value" of the control on the form for the data displayed >in the combo. For example if the user is typing in an SSN of a person ad >it >is not in list, there are waaaay to many fields to fill in for a new person >to just do it without a form, so I open the form in Add mode, and place >that >SSN in the ssn field on the form. > >This is all done using the combo control class communicating with the form >class. The control class opens the new form and passes in OpenArgs. The >form class discovers it has openargs, loads an OpenArgs class which parses >the OpenArgs and processes any standard OpenArgs such as the one to find >the >control and make the data the DefaultValue. > > >in the On Got Focus entry in the property you could enter: >=OnFocus([Screen].[Activecontrol]) > >Unfortunately doing things that way has several major drawbacks. > >1) You can't use the Find in a code module to find everywhere that function >is called since the call to the function isn't in code. I realize that it >can be found from a search utility such as speedferret or Find and Replace >but that means that you now have to switch focus and go to that utility. > >2) You can't add other functionality to that event since you are specifying >that YOUR function be called. There is no generic event stub for adding >additional processing to. > >3) Programs such as my framework which need to hook events just write >MyCtl.SomeEvent = "[EventProcedure]" in order to hook the event and cause >Access to route processing to the event stub. Your custom processing would >just disappear now. > >Using this method is fine if you are the only developer who will ever touch >your app (and unfortunately many developers simply don't care about the guy >that comes along behind). You know you do that, you love doing that and >you >are happy with it. God forbid you get hit by a bus and I have to take over >maintenance of your app because I will be cursing your name for the rest of >the life of that application (or until I get the mess straightened out). > > >Another nice means to hookup events automatically is to create a control >combination, or even a single control, encapsulated on a sub form all by >itself. > >My only problem with using subforms in this manner is the frustration of >getting the cursor movement to work correctly. The user is tabbing along >filling in data and hits a subform and has to then use special keys to get >out of the thing and into the next control to be filled in. A custom class >that has all the required processing that your form class has gives me all >(most) of the advantages that you mention without the "cursor movement" >issues since the control is now in my main form. The only thing I don't >get >is the "drag and drop and I'm done". I do have to dimension the class, >initialize it, and clean it up when I am done. I am so used to using >classes now though that this is a 60 second thing. > >On the other hand, if this really is so generic that I use it all the time, >I use a naming convention such that as a combo or list class loads it looks >at it's name and hooks in the calls to that class to do the special >processing for it. Then you are right back to drag and drop convenience. >I >do this for the record selector combos at the top of my forms. They use a >naming convention and my combo class just "knows" that this is a record >selector and when an item is selected in that combo the combo class finds >the record selected and causes the form to display it. > >John W. Colby >www.ColbyConsulting.com > >-----Original Message----- >From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com >[mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of J?rgen Welz >Sent: Sunday, March 07, 2004 1:09 AM >To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com >Subject: RE: [AccessD] Your favorite control behavior > > >That is almost exactly the way my Notinlist procedure is coded. I also add >two parameters, one for the target table to which the record will be added >and one for a user name for the type of data to be added. I guess the only >difference is that I don't open a separate data entry form. I just set a >single record recordset for the existing form to the record that is added >and it displays the new data in the appropriate field or fields. > >For things like date fields or lookups, I create them once on a template >form and then copy from there to the form on which I need it displayed. >Although you can use WithEvents and hook up controls, I haven't found a way >to do this with the Notinlist parameters. I have found that just about >every event that I may want to use WithEvents for, I can instead create a >public function procedure for. For a control that displays a date for >which >I want a calendar to pop on double click and to change backcolor when it >gets focus and revert to a non-focus backcolor when focus is lost, or >respond to mouse move events, I can call the public procedure, usually >passing in screen.activecontrol by using the function name rather than >[eventprocedure] in the property sheet. When I copy and paste a date >control from my template form into a new target form, it is completely >hooked up to all standard events. Retrieving the form container name only >requires the code to check the parent property of the active control. For >example, if you open the event property sheet for a conventional textbox, >in >the On Got Focus entry in the property you could enter: > >=OnFocus([Screen].[Activecontrol]) > >and in the On Lost Focus entyr you could enter: > >=OffFocus([Screen].[Activecontrol]) > >Then in a public module: > >Public Function OnFocus(ctl As Control) > ctl.BackColor = vbWhite 'or some standard constant >End Function >Public Function OffFocus(ctl As Control) > ctl.BackColor = -2147483633 'or some constant that can be set >End Function > >You can check for control type being a combo and call .DropDown in the >OnFocus or write a separate OnFocusCombo procedure. The whole point is >that >the event procedures are hooked up when you paste a copy of the control as >the event properties are copied with the control. > >Another nice means to hookup events automatically is to create a control >combination, or even a single control, encapsulated on a sub form all by >itself. The control comes with its own class module in the code behind the >subform. I have found this a great way to hookup something like a callback >based list of municipalities with a not in list that can be made aware of >the need to requery the data array when there is an addition or change to a >municipality record. No need to create a new copy of the control on >multiple forms, just drag the subform container on and you get format and >events all done. > >Ciao >J?rgen Welz >Edmonton, Alberta >jwelz at hotmail.com > > > > > > >From: "Arthur Fuller" > > > >I have a function called aaNotInList() which takes the same parms as the > >NotInList function and adds two new ones -- the name of the form to open > >when adding an item, and the "human" name of said entity, the latter > >just to pretty up the messagebox that comes up. The functon asks if you > >want to add a new "XXX" (4th parm) and if so opens the specified form, > >which uses the typical code to hide itself on OK and close itself on > >Cancel. Then the function does the usual "add to list and accept the > >value" and closes the form. It works great but I still have to type in > >that line of code every time I need one. Not that one line of code is a > >major hassle, I guess, but can you think of a class-based way to do > >this? It might be more fun to do it that way. > > > >Arthur _________________________________________________________________ MSN Premium includes powerful parental controls and get 2 months FREE* http://join.msn.com/?pgmarket=en-ca&page=byoa/prem&xAPID=1994&DI=1034&SU=htt p://hotmail.com/enca&HL=Market_MSNIS_Taglines -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From andrew.haslett at ilc.gov.au Sun Mar 7 20:41:18 2004 From: andrew.haslett at ilc.gov.au (Haslett, Andrew) Date: Mon, 8 Mar 2004 13:11:18 +1030 Subject: [AccessD] Your favorite control behavior Message-ID: I always thought it was "I couldn't care less". Anyway, very interesting discussion. John, not sure if you've looked into yet, but the .Net languages (and many other OO languages I presume) will provide you with a lot of support for what you are trying to implement with your framework. Inherting your pages / controls from a base class will be ideal to 'inherit' common functionality that it seems you are doing. Custom controls (reusable) alse offer the capabilities you are creating with your framework. I haven't looked in detail at your framework or anything - just been browsing these discussions, but was interested to know if you've looked into .Net yet.., as I think you would find it quite interesting. Cheers, A -----Original Message----- From: John W. Colby [mailto:jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com] Sent: Monday, 8 March 2004 12:19 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] Your favorite control behavior >Correct me if I'm mistaken, but my understanding is that a form has >it's own class which you can multi instance in various ways and in which you can create property procedures and do any thing else one can do in a class of your own. It sounds not like you are creating a form class but a separate class to shadow the form class. Yep, you are correct. >The downside is needing to know the name of a control in order to be >able to operate with it. To program certain functionality (such as passing in the table / field / form to a combo for NotInList) that is correct. >The advantage of hooking up all default behaviors with a function is >that you can pass the procedure a reference to the actual control for which the event is triggered so there is no need for collections or code to run on the form open event. I see no advantage there. My form class scans all of my controls and loads a class for each control. That class hooks up all the functionality for them. I don't have to "make sure" I have cut the control from the right place so that stuff is in the event properties. >Every copy/paste of a control is automatically hooked up to the >standard events without ever writing any code except the single function procedures that all copies of the control trigger. So you have replaced writing a few lines of code in the Form's Open (standard, can be cut and pasted) with dozens of cuts and pastes of controls onto the form? Hmmm..... I can definitely see how this might be better.... >You can override the 'inherited' behavior by changing the function, >writing a specific event procedure or passing in one or more additional optional parameters. Of course you can. So can I using my framework and control classes. >Correct me again if I'm mistaken, but this facility to hook up events >has been around since Access 1 whereas WithEvents is somewhat newer and more esoteric and less universally understood or used. That's like saying "The car has been around a lot less time than the horse so why are we using a car". Sure, Withevents were not around when Access 1.0 came out, and of course this is not applicable to 1.0. More powerful tools are handed to us year after year. To say I am not going to use it because it wasn't available in 1.0 is silly and prevents adapting some very powerful tools. Jurgen, I could care less whether you want to use this stuff. I could care less whether you love hooking functions straight up to the event property. That is an option, and if that is the tool you choose to use, that is your business. I have explained to you why I don't touch that stuff, and why, when I have to take over an app where the previous developer uses that method it pains me greatly. I used to use it, don't get me wrong, it's just that there are tons of disadvantages and only one advantage, your "cut and paste" advantage. That "cut and paste" advantage isn't sufficient in my mind to overcome the disadvantages. In fact that advantage has been neatly replaced by Withevents in classes! You have a SINGLE function that you hook to a property, and you have a bunch of functions that you hook to a bunch of properties. I have a class that I pass a control to. I sink the events in that class, then call various functions of the class from those events. The results are similar, but not identical. I can for instance, turn on/off the behaviors using sysvars. My good friend William Hindman was using some stuff of mine and didn't like some specific things I was doing. I simply "switched it off" for him. Nothing more than "go in the sysvar table and set this sysvar = false. His system didn't use that behavior anymore. Try THAT with your method. A framework is waaaay more than just a function hooked to an event, or even a bunch of functions hooked to a bunch of events. It is a whole system that works together. My control classes talk to the form class. The form class loads SysVars that turn on and off functionality of the framework. I can override a given functionality for the entire application, or just for a given form in the application. The control classes "talk to" the form class and ask whether they should exhibit this behavior? The control class simply doesn't care whether the behavior is turned on / off for the entire application or just this form, all they care about is that they are supposed to exhibit the behavior THIS TIME, RIGHT NOW. Tomorrow the user might want the behavior and I go turn it on using a SysVar. TRY THAT with your "cut and paste" stuff!!! >Like Arthur, it looks to me like you write a great deal more code than >the one line each of us uses to hook a control to a common not in list procedure because you need to write and maintain the framework. You are 100% correct. I do write a whole lot more code than you do. In fact I write almost EXACTLY the same code you do, I just make it a part of a whole system rather than an isolated thing that happens. The "way more code" is the stuff required to tie it in and make it a system. When I design a form I don't "cut and paste" a bunch of controls so that they get hooked up properly. My form class loads control classes that hook everything up for me automatically. Whether I have one or a hundred combos on a form, every one can, if it needs it, have any of the various behaviors that the combo class provides. Why in the world would I go somewhere, "cut a control" and paste it in the form a hundred times? Furthermore I can take ANY form, load a form class in that form's Open and have all of my stuff just automatically applied to all of the controls on that form! All the combos suddenly know how to do combo stuff, all the text boxes suddenly know how to do text box stuff. If a given combo needs NotInList (and MANY don't), then a single line of code passes in the correct table / field / form for that combo to know how to do it. Try THAT with your "cut and paste" stuff! I seem to remember butting heads with you in the past. You were always about "the last ounce of (application) speed", and I simply don't care about that last ounce. I am more about speed of development and ease of maintenance. Your "cut and paste" does allow lightweight forms. I could care less. If that is what this is all about, I will hand you your "speed advantage" and you can walk away the winner. I will take my speed of development and ease of maintenance and I too will walk away a winner. I understand what you are doing, I have done it that way in the distant past. Listen to what I am trying to explain where frameworks are concerned, read it, UNDERSTAND it (ALL OF IT), and then if you still love your "cut and paste" stuff... "may the force be with you". And may I never have to maintain your apps! John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of J?rgen Welz Sent: Sunday, March 07, 2004 6:01 PM To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: RE: [AccessD] Your favorite control behavior Correct me if I'm mistaken, but my understanding is that a form has it's own class which you can multi instance in various ways and in which you can create property procedures and do any thing else one can do in a class of your own. It sounds not like you are creating a form class but a separate class to shadow the form class. The downside is needing to know the name of a control in order to be able to operate with it. The advantage of hooking up all default behaviors with a function is that you can pass the procedure a reference to the actual control for which the event is triggered so there is no need for collections or code to run on the form open event. Every copy/paste of a control is automatically hooked up to the standard events without ever writing any code except the single function procedures that all copies of the control trigger. You can override the 'inherited' behaviour by changing the function, writing a specific event procedure or passing in one or more additional optional parameters. Correct me again if I'm mistaken, but this facility to hook up events has been around since Access 1 whereas WithEvents is somewhat newer and more esoteric and less universally understood or used. I suspect that developers coming from a Visual Basic background are less familiar with the advantages of this approach, particularly when they bemoan the lack of control arrays. I suspect this facility is the reason that control arrays were never needed in Access. Like Arthur, it looks to me like you write a great deal more code than the one line each of us uses to hook a contol to a common not in list procedure because you need to write and maintain the framework. Ciao J?rgen Welz Edmonton, Alberta jwelz at hotmail.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com IMPORTANT - PLEASE READ ******************** This email and any files transmitted with it are confidential and may contain information protected by law from disclosure. If you have received this message in error, please notify the sender immediately and delete this email from your system. No warranty is given that this email or files, if attached to this email, are free from computer viruses or other defects. They are provided on the basis the user assumes all responsibility for loss, damage or consequence resulting directly or indirectly from their use, whether caused by the negligence of the sender or not. From jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com Sun Mar 7 20:53:50 2004 From: jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com (John W. Colby) Date: Sun, 7 Mar 2004 21:53:50 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Your favorite control behavior In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Andrew, Yes, I am (slowly) learning .net. It's OO stuff is enough to make me drool. Unfortunately it's database stuff is weak and I am a database developer. Stick around (if you are an Access developer) for the framework discussion. Access' inheritance is non-existant so we use workarounds. If I could just inherit the form class and add my stuff I probably would do that but I can't. And of course controls don't have a class at all. Look in .net and a control is just a class that you can inherit like any other class. NICE!!! Lacking that in Access, classes out in a lib is a poor man's substitute and is what I am up to. John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Haslett, Andrew Sent: Sunday, March 07, 2004 9:41 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: [AccessD] Your favorite control behavior I always thought it was "I couldn't care less". Anyway, very interesting discussion. John, not sure if you've looked into yet, but the .Net languages (and many other OO languages I presume) will provide you with a lot of support for what you are trying to implement with your framework. Inherting your pages / controls from a base class will be ideal to 'inherit' common functionality that it seems you are doing. Custom controls (reusable) alse offer the capabilities you are creating with your framework. I haven't looked in detail at your framework or anything - just been browsing these discussions, but was interested to know if you've looked into .Net yet.., as I think you would find it quite interesting. Cheers, A -----Original Message----- From: John W. Colby [mailto:jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com] Sent: Monday, 8 March 2004 12:19 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] Your favorite control behavior >Correct me if I'm mistaken, but my understanding is that a form has >it's own class which you can multi instance in various ways and in which you can create property procedures and do any thing else one can do in a class of your own. It sounds not like you are creating a form class but a separate class to shadow the form class. Yep, you are correct. >The downside is needing to know the name of a control in order to be >able to operate with it. To program certain functionality (such as passing in the table / field / form to a combo for NotInList) that is correct. >The advantage of hooking up all default behaviors with a function is >that you can pass the procedure a reference to the actual control for which the event is triggered so there is no need for collections or code to run on the form open event. I see no advantage there. My form class scans all of my controls and loads a class for each control. That class hooks up all the functionality for them. I don't have to "make sure" I have cut the control from the right place so that stuff is in the event properties. >Every copy/paste of a control is automatically hooked up to the >standard events without ever writing any code except the single function procedures that all copies of the control trigger. So you have replaced writing a few lines of code in the Form's Open (standard, can be cut and pasted) with dozens of cuts and pastes of controls onto the form? Hmmm..... I can definitely see how this might be better.... >You can override the 'inherited' behavior by changing the function, >writing a specific event procedure or passing in one or more additional optional parameters. Of course you can. So can I using my framework and control classes. >Correct me again if I'm mistaken, but this facility to hook up events >has been around since Access 1 whereas WithEvents is somewhat newer and more esoteric and less universally understood or used. That's like saying "The car has been around a lot less time than the horse so why are we using a car". Sure, Withevents were not around when Access 1.0 came out, and of course this is not applicable to 1.0. More powerful tools are handed to us year after year. To say I am not going to use it because it wasn't available in 1.0 is silly and prevents adapting some very powerful tools. Jurgen, I could care less whether you want to use this stuff. I could care less whether you love hooking functions straight up to the event property. That is an option, and if that is the tool you choose to use, that is your business. I have explained to you why I don't touch that stuff, and why, when I have to take over an app where the previous developer uses that method it pains me greatly. I used to use it, don't get me wrong, it's just that there are tons of disadvantages and only one advantage, your "cut and paste" advantage. That "cut and paste" advantage isn't sufficient in my mind to overcome the disadvantages. In fact that advantage has been neatly replaced by Withevents in classes! You have a SINGLE function that you hook to a property, and you have a bunch of functions that you hook to a bunch of properties. I have a class that I pass a control to. I sink the events in that class, then call various functions of the class from those events. The results are similar, but not identical. I can for instance, turn on/off the behaviors using sysvars. My good friend William Hindman was using some stuff of mine and didn't like some specific things I was doing. I simply "switched it off" for him. Nothing more than "go in the sysvar table and set this sysvar = false. His system didn't use that behavior anymore. Try THAT with your method. A framework is waaaay more than just a function hooked to an event, or even a bunch of functions hooked to a bunch of events. It is a whole system that works together. My control classes talk to the form class. The form class loads SysVars that turn on and off functionality of the framework. I can override a given functionality for the entire application, or just for a given form in the application. The control classes "talk to" the form class and ask whether they should exhibit this behavior? The control class simply doesn't care whether the behavior is turned on / off for the entire application or just this form, all they care about is that they are supposed to exhibit the behavior THIS TIME, RIGHT NOW. Tomorrow the user might want the behavior and I go turn it on using a SysVar. TRY THAT with your "cut and paste" stuff!!! >Like Arthur, it looks to me like you write a great deal more code than >the one line each of us uses to hook a control to a common not in list procedure because you need to write and maintain the framework. You are 100% correct. I do write a whole lot more code than you do. In fact I write almost EXACTLY the same code you do, I just make it a part of a whole system rather than an isolated thing that happens. The "way more code" is the stuff required to tie it in and make it a system. When I design a form I don't "cut and paste" a bunch of controls so that they get hooked up properly. My form class loads control classes that hook everything up for me automatically. Whether I have one or a hundred combos on a form, every one can, if it needs it, have any of the various behaviors that the combo class provides. Why in the world would I go somewhere, "cut a control" and paste it in the form a hundred times? Furthermore I can take ANY form, load a form class in that form's Open and have all of my stuff just automatically applied to all of the controls on that form! All the combos suddenly know how to do combo stuff, all the text boxes suddenly know how to do text box stuff. If a given combo needs NotInList (and MANY don't), then a single line of code passes in the correct table / field / form for that combo to know how to do it. Try THAT with your "cut and paste" stuff! I seem to remember butting heads with you in the past. You were always about "the last ounce of (application) speed", and I simply don't care about that last ounce. I am more about speed of development and ease of maintenance. Your "cut and paste" does allow lightweight forms. I could care less. If that is what this is all about, I will hand you your "speed advantage" and you can walk away the winner. I will take my speed of development and ease of maintenance and I too will walk away a winner. I understand what you are doing, I have done it that way in the distant past. Listen to what I am trying to explain where frameworks are concerned, read it, UNDERSTAND it (ALL OF IT), and then if you still love your "cut and paste" stuff... "may the force be with you". And may I never have to maintain your apps! John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of J?rgen Welz Sent: Sunday, March 07, 2004 6:01 PM To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: RE: [AccessD] Your favorite control behavior Correct me if I'm mistaken, but my understanding is that a form has it's own class which you can multi instance in various ways and in which you can create property procedures and do any thing else one can do in a class of your own. It sounds not like you are creating a form class but a separate class to shadow the form class. The downside is needing to know the name of a control in order to be able to operate with it. The advantage of hooking up all default behaviors with a function is that you can pass the procedure a reference to the actual control for which the event is triggered so there is no need for collections or code to run on the form open event. Every copy/paste of a control is automatically hooked up to the standard events without ever writing any code except the single function procedures that all copies of the control trigger. You can override the 'inherited' behaviour by changing the function, writing a specific event procedure or passing in one or more additional optional parameters. Correct me again if I'm mistaken, but this facility to hook up events has been around since Access 1 whereas WithEvents is somewhat newer and more esoteric and less universally understood or used. I suspect that developers coming from a Visual Basic background are less familiar with the advantages of this approach, particularly when they bemoan the lack of control arrays. I suspect this facility is the reason that control arrays were never needed in Access. Like Arthur, it looks to me like you write a great deal more code than the one line each of us uses to hook a contol to a common not in list procedure because you need to write and maintain the framework. Ciao J?rgen Welz Edmonton, Alberta jwelz at hotmail.com From andrew.haslett at ilc.gov.au Sun Mar 7 21:17:42 2004 From: andrew.haslett at ilc.gov.au (Haslett, Andrew) Date: Mon, 8 Mar 2004 13:47:42 +1030 Subject: [AccessD] Your favorite control behavior Message-ID: Yep - I've been dev. In Access since 1.1 and love it, but tend to do very little consulting these days, simply as I find distributed applications and the related new technologies more interesting. I've been a little hesitant to jump on the bandwagon as I've always felt the form and report designer in Access was about as good as it gets, however Visual Studio.Net compares nicely. The ability to create custom controls (as classes) and expose custom properties and methods is awesome in .Net, and something I've used extensively throughout my applications. Interested to read your comments about the database element. I'm an MCDBA myself and have found the new objects in .Net used to connect to data stores, a huge improvement over previous versions. You must remember that the data stores for your applications are not 'embedded' in your application as they are in Access, and so obviously aren't going to have the same 'native' functionality, however this is inherent about distributed applications. To make the framework flexible, allowing multiple data sources, such as DB/XML/Web Services/etc -> that sort of functionality is simply not possible.. If that is what you're getting at, it only takes a bit of getting used to and you come to grips with disconnected data connections. I guess it was a little easier for me as I've developed web apps for quite some time and this methodology has been required throughout. I also imagine it would take a little getting used to binding your controls to data-sources, which is inherently easier in Access due to its embedded data-source, but again it's necessary (and often an advantage) in disconnected apps and there are tools provided (in VS.Net) to help with this process. I will continue to follow any framework discussions with interest. I'm also looking forward to upcoming versions of Access where perhaps the 'best of both worlds' will combine - even though I sense many here are not.. Cheers, Andrew -----Original Message----- From: John W. Colby [mailto:jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com] Sent: Monday, 8 March 2004 1:24 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] Your favorite control behavior Andrew, Yes, I am (slowly) learning .net. It's OO stuff is enough to make me drool. Unfortunately it's database stuff is weak and I am a database developer. Stick around (if you are an Access developer) for the framework discussion. Access' inheritance is non-existant so we use workarounds. If I could just inherit the form class and add my stuff I probably would do that but I can't. And of course controls don't have a class at all. Look in .net and a control is just a class that you can inherit like any other class. NICE!!! Lacking that in Access, classes out in a lib is a poor man's substitute and is what I am up to. John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Haslett, Andrew Sent: Sunday, March 07, 2004 9:41 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: [AccessD] Your favorite control behavior I always thought it was "I couldn't care less". Anyway, very interesting discussion. John, not sure if you've looked into yet, but the .Net languages (and many other OO languages I presume) will provide you with a lot of support for what you are trying to implement with your framework. Inherting your pages / controls from a base class will be ideal to 'inherit' common functionality that it seems you are doing. Custom controls (reusable) alse offer the capabilities you are creating with your framework. I haven't looked in detail at your framework or anything - just been browsing these discussions, but was interested to know if you've looked into .Net yet.., as I think you would find it quite interesting. Cheers, A -----Original Message----- From: John W. Colby [mailto:jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com] Sent: Monday, 8 March 2004 12:19 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] Your favorite control behavior >Correct me if I'm mistaken, but my understanding is that a form has >it's own class which you can multi instance in various ways and in which you can create property procedures and do any thing else one can do in a class of your own. It sounds not like you are creating a form class but a separate class to shadow the form class. Yep, you are correct. >The downside is needing to know the name of a control in order to be >able to operate with it. To program certain functionality (such as passing in the table / field / form to a combo for NotInList) that is correct. >The advantage of hooking up all default behaviors with a function is >that you can pass the procedure a reference to the actual control for which the event is triggered so there is no need for collections or code to run on the form open event. I see no advantage there. My form class scans all of my controls and loads a class for each control. That class hooks up all the functionality for them. I don't have to "make sure" I have cut the control from the right place so that stuff is in the event properties. >Every copy/paste of a control is automatically hooked up to the >standard events without ever writing any code except the single function procedures that all copies of the control trigger. So you have replaced writing a few lines of code in the Form's Open (standard, can be cut and pasted) with dozens of cuts and pastes of controls onto the form? Hmmm..... I can definitely see how this might be better.... >You can override the 'inherited' behavior by changing the function, >writing a specific event procedure or passing in one or more additional optional parameters. Of course you can. So can I using my framework and control classes. >Correct me again if I'm mistaken, but this facility to hook up events >has been around since Access 1 whereas WithEvents is somewhat newer and more esoteric and less universally understood or used. That's like saying "The car has been around a lot less time than the horse so why are we using a car". Sure, Withevents were not around when Access 1.0 came out, and of course this is not applicable to 1.0. More powerful tools are handed to us year after year. To say I am not going to use it because it wasn't available in 1.0 is silly and prevents adapting some very powerful tools. Jurgen, I could care less whether you want to use this stuff. I could care less whether you love hooking functions straight up to the event property. That is an option, and if that is the tool you choose to use, that is your business. I have explained to you why I don't touch that stuff, and why, when I have to take over an app where the previous developer uses that method it pains me greatly. I used to use it, don't get me wrong, it's just that there are tons of disadvantages and only one advantage, your "cut and paste" advantage. That "cut and paste" advantage isn't sufficient in my mind to overcome the disadvantages. In fact that advantage has been neatly replaced by Withevents in classes! You have a SINGLE function that you hook to a property, and you have a bunch of functions that you hook to a bunch of properties. I have a class that I pass a control to. I sink the events in that class, then call various functions of the class from those events. The results are similar, but not identical. I can for instance, turn on/off the behaviors using sysvars. My good friend William Hindman was using some stuff of mine and didn't like some specific things I was doing. I simply "switched it off" for him. Nothing more than "go in the sysvar table and set this sysvar = false. His system didn't use that behavior anymore. Try THAT with your method. A framework is waaaay more than just a function hooked to an event, or even a bunch of functions hooked to a bunch of events. It is a whole system that works together. My control classes talk to the form class. The form class loads SysVars that turn on and off functionality of the framework. I can override a given functionality for the entire application, or just for a given form in the application. The control classes "talk to" the form class and ask whether they should exhibit this behavior? The control class simply doesn't care whether the behavior is turned on / off for the entire application or just this form, all they care about is that they are supposed to exhibit the behavior THIS TIME, RIGHT NOW. Tomorrow the user might want the behavior and I go turn it on using a SysVar. TRY THAT with your "cut and paste" stuff!!! >Like Arthur, it looks to me like you write a great deal more code than >the one line each of us uses to hook a control to a common not in list procedure because you need to write and maintain the framework. You are 100% correct. I do write a whole lot more code than you do. In fact I write almost EXACTLY the same code you do, I just make it a part of a whole system rather than an isolated thing that happens. The "way more code" is the stuff required to tie it in and make it a system. When I design a form I don't "cut and paste" a bunch of controls so that they get hooked up properly. My form class loads control classes that hook everything up for me automatically. Whether I have one or a hundred combos on a form, every one can, if it needs it, have any of the various behaviors that the combo class provides. Why in the world would I go somewhere, "cut a control" and paste it in the form a hundred times? Furthermore I can take ANY form, load a form class in that form's Open and have all of my stuff just automatically applied to all of the controls on that form! All the combos suddenly know how to do combo stuff, all the text boxes suddenly know how to do text box stuff. If a given combo needs NotInList (and MANY don't), then a single line of code passes in the correct table / field / form for that combo to know how to do it. Try THAT with your "cut and paste" stuff! I seem to remember butting heads with you in the past. You were always about "the last ounce of (application) speed", and I simply don't care about that last ounce. I am more about speed of development and ease of maintenance. Your "cut and paste" does allow lightweight forms. I could care less. If that is what this is all about, I will hand you your "speed advantage" and you can walk away the winner. I will take my speed of development and ease of maintenance and I too will walk away a winner. I understand what you are doing, I have done it that way in the distant past. Listen to what I am trying to explain where frameworks are concerned, read it, UNDERSTAND it (ALL OF IT), and then if you still love your "cut and paste" stuff... "may the force be with you". And may I never have to maintain your apps! John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of J?rgen Welz Sent: Sunday, March 07, 2004 6:01 PM To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: RE: [AccessD] Your favorite control behavior Correct me if I'm mistaken, but my understanding is that a form has it's own class which you can multi instance in various ways and in which you can create property procedures and do any thing else one can do in a class of your own. It sounds not like you are creating a form class but a separate class to shadow the form class. The downside is needing to know the name of a control in order to be able to operate with it. The advantage of hooking up all default behaviors with a function is that you can pass the procedure a reference to the actual control for which the event is triggered so there is no need for collections or code to run on the form open event. Every copy/paste of a control is automatically hooked up to the standard events without ever writing any code except the single function procedures that all copies of the control trigger. You can override the 'inherited' behaviour by changing the function, writing a specific event procedure or passing in one or more additional optional parameters. Correct me again if I'm mistaken, but this facility to hook up events has been around since Access 1 whereas WithEvents is somewhat newer and more esoteric and less universally understood or used. I suspect that developers coming from a Visual Basic background are less familiar with the advantages of this approach, particularly when they bemoan the lack of control arrays. I suspect this facility is the reason that control arrays were never needed in Access. Like Arthur, it looks to me like you write a great deal more code than the one line each of us uses to hook a contol to a common not in list procedure because you need to write and maintain the framework. Ciao J?rgen Welz Edmonton, Alberta jwelz at hotmail.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com IMPORTANT - PLEASE READ ******************** This email and any files transmitted with it are confidential and may contain information protected by law from disclosure. If you have received this message in error, please notify the sender immediately and delete this email from your system. No warranty is given that this email or files, if attached to this email, are free from computer viruses or other defects. They are provided on the basis the user assumes all responsibility for loss, damage or consequence resulting directly or indirectly from their use, whether caused by the negligence of the sender or not. From jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com Sun Mar 7 21:53:12 2004 From: jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com (John W. Colby) Date: Sun, 7 Mar 2004 22:53:12 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Your favorite control behavior In-Reply-To: Message-ID: >The ability to create custom controls (as classes) and expose custom properties and methods is awesome in .Net, and something I've used extensively throughout my applications. And don't you worry that the "developers" out there won't understand your stuff? John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Haslett, Andrew Sent: Sunday, March 07, 2004 10:18 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: [AccessD] Your favorite control behavior Yep - I've been dev. In Access since 1.1 and love it, but tend to do very little consulting these days, simply as I find distributed applications and the related new technologies more interesting. I've been a little hesitant to jump on the bandwagon as I've always felt the form and report designer in Access was about as good as it gets, however Visual Studio.Net compares nicely. The ability to create custom controls (as classes) and expose custom properties and methods is awesome in .Net, and something I've used extensively throughout my applications. Interested to read your comments about the database element. I'm an MCDBA myself and have found the new objects in .Net used to connect to data stores, a huge improvement over previous versions. You must remember that the data stores for your applications are not 'embedded' in your application as they are in Access, and so obviously aren't going to have the same 'native' functionality, however this is inherent about distributed applications. To make the framework flexible, allowing multiple data sources, such as DB/XML/Web Services/etc -> that sort of functionality is simply not possible.. If that is what you're getting at, it only takes a bit of getting used to and you come to grips with disconnected data connections. I guess it was a little easier for me as I've developed web apps for quite some time and this methodology has been required throughout. I also imagine it would take a little getting used to binding your controls to data-sources, which is inherently easier in Access due to its embedded data-source, but again it's necessary (and often an advantage) in disconnected apps and there are tools provided (in VS.Net) to help with this process. I will continue to follow any framework discussions with interest. I'm also looking forward to upcoming versions of Access where perhaps the 'best of both worlds' will combine - even though I sense many here are not.. Cheers, Andrew -----Original Message----- From: John W. Colby [mailto:jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com] Sent: Monday, 8 March 2004 1:24 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] Your favorite control behavior Andrew, Yes, I am (slowly) learning .net. It's OO stuff is enough to make me drool. Unfortunately it's database stuff is weak and I am a database developer. Stick around (if you are an Access developer) for the framework discussion. Access' inheritance is non-existant so we use workarounds. If I could just inherit the form class and add my stuff I probably would do that but I can't. And of course controls don't have a class at all. Look in .net and a control is just a class that you can inherit like any other class. NICE!!! Lacking that in Access, classes out in a lib is a poor man's substitute and is what I am up to. John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Haslett, Andrew Sent: Sunday, March 07, 2004 9:41 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: [AccessD] Your favorite control behavior I always thought it was "I couldn't care less". Anyway, very interesting discussion. John, not sure if you've looked into yet, but the .Net languages (and many other OO languages I presume) will provide you with a lot of support for what you are trying to implement with your framework. Inherting your pages / controls from a base class will be ideal to 'inherit' common functionality that it seems you are doing. Custom controls (reusable) alse offer the capabilities you are creating with your framework. I haven't looked in detail at your framework or anything - just been browsing these discussions, but was interested to know if you've looked into .Net yet.., as I think you would find it quite interesting. Cheers, A -----Original Message----- From: John W. Colby [mailto:jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com] Sent: Monday, 8 March 2004 12:19 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] Your favorite control behavior >Correct me if I'm mistaken, but my understanding is that a form has >it's own class which you can multi instance in various ways and in which you can create property procedures and do any thing else one can do in a class of your own. It sounds not like you are creating a form class but a separate class to shadow the form class. Yep, you are correct. >The downside is needing to know the name of a control in order to be >able to operate with it. To program certain functionality (such as passing in the table / field / form to a combo for NotInList) that is correct. >The advantage of hooking up all default behaviors with a function is >that you can pass the procedure a reference to the actual control for which the event is triggered so there is no need for collections or code to run on the form open event. I see no advantage there. My form class scans all of my controls and loads a class for each control. That class hooks up all the functionality for them. I don't have to "make sure" I have cut the control from the right place so that stuff is in the event properties. >Every copy/paste of a control is automatically hooked up to the >standard events without ever writing any code except the single function procedures that all copies of the control trigger. So you have replaced writing a few lines of code in the Form's Open (standard, can be cut and pasted) with dozens of cuts and pastes of controls onto the form? Hmmm..... I can definitely see how this might be better.... >You can override the 'inherited' behavior by changing the function, >writing a specific event procedure or passing in one or more additional optional parameters. Of course you can. So can I using my framework and control classes. >Correct me again if I'm mistaken, but this facility to hook up events >has been around since Access 1 whereas WithEvents is somewhat newer and more esoteric and less universally understood or used. That's like saying "The car has been around a lot less time than the horse so why are we using a car". Sure, Withevents were not around when Access 1.0 came out, and of course this is not applicable to 1.0. More powerful tools are handed to us year after year. To say I am not going to use it because it wasn't available in 1.0 is silly and prevents adapting some very powerful tools. Jurgen, I could care less whether you want to use this stuff. I could care less whether you love hooking functions straight up to the event property. That is an option, and if that is the tool you choose to use, that is your business. I have explained to you why I don't touch that stuff, and why, when I have to take over an app where the previous developer uses that method it pains me greatly. I used to use it, don't get me wrong, it's just that there are tons of disadvantages and only one advantage, your "cut and paste" advantage. That "cut and paste" advantage isn't sufficient in my mind to overcome the disadvantages. In fact that advantage has been neatly replaced by Withevents in classes! You have a SINGLE function that you hook to a property, and you have a bunch of functions that you hook to a bunch of properties. I have a class that I pass a control to. I sink the events in that class, then call various functions of the class from those events. The results are similar, but not identical. I can for instance, turn on/off the behaviors using sysvars. My good friend William Hindman was using some stuff of mine and didn't like some specific things I was doing. I simply "switched it off" for him. Nothing more than "go in the sysvar table and set this sysvar = false. His system didn't use that behavior anymore. Try THAT with your method. A framework is waaaay more than just a function hooked to an event, or even a bunch of functions hooked to a bunch of events. It is a whole system that works together. My control classes talk to the form class. The form class loads SysVars that turn on and off functionality of the framework. I can override a given functionality for the entire application, or just for a given form in the application. The control classes "talk to" the form class and ask whether they should exhibit this behavior? The control class simply doesn't care whether the behavior is turned on / off for the entire application or just this form, all they care about is that they are supposed to exhibit the behavior THIS TIME, RIGHT NOW. Tomorrow the user might want the behavior and I go turn it on using a SysVar. TRY THAT with your "cut and paste" stuff!!! >Like Arthur, it looks to me like you write a great deal more code than >the one line each of us uses to hook a control to a common not in list procedure because you need to write and maintain the framework. You are 100% correct. I do write a whole lot more code than you do. In fact I write almost EXACTLY the same code you do, I just make it a part of a whole system rather than an isolated thing that happens. The "way more code" is the stuff required to tie it in and make it a system. When I design a form I don't "cut and paste" a bunch of controls so that they get hooked up properly. My form class loads control classes that hook everything up for me automatically. Whether I have one or a hundred combos on a form, every one can, if it needs it, have any of the various behaviors that the combo class provides. Why in the world would I go somewhere, "cut a control" and paste it in the form a hundred times? Furthermore I can take ANY form, load a form class in that form's Open and have all of my stuff just automatically applied to all of the controls on that form! All the combos suddenly know how to do combo stuff, all the text boxes suddenly know how to do text box stuff. If a given combo needs NotInList (and MANY don't), then a single line of code passes in the correct table / field / form for that combo to know how to do it. Try THAT with your "cut and paste" stuff! I seem to remember butting heads with you in the past. You were always about "the last ounce of (application) speed", and I simply don't care about that last ounce. I am more about speed of development and ease of maintenance. Your "cut and paste" does allow lightweight forms. I could care less. If that is what this is all about, I will hand you your "speed advantage" and you can walk away the winner. I will take my speed of development and ease of maintenance and I too will walk away a winner. I understand what you are doing, I have done it that way in the distant past. Listen to what I am trying to explain where frameworks are concerned, read it, UNDERSTAND it (ALL OF IT), and then if you still love your "cut and paste" stuff... "may the force be with you". And may I never have to maintain your apps! John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of J?rgen Welz Sent: Sunday, March 07, 2004 6:01 PM To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: RE: [AccessD] Your favorite control behavior Correct me if I'm mistaken, but my understanding is that a form has it's own class which you can multi instance in various ways and in which you can create property procedures and do any thing else one can do in a class of your own. It sounds not like you are creating a form class but a separate class to shadow the form class. The downside is needing to know the name of a control in order to be able to operate with it. The advantage of hooking up all default behaviors with a function is that you can pass the procedure a reference to the actual control for which the event is triggered so there is no need for collections or code to run on the form open event. Every copy/paste of a control is automatically hooked up to the standard events without ever writing any code except the single function procedures that all copies of the control trigger. You can override the 'inherited' behaviour by changing the function, writing a specific event procedure or passing in one or more additional optional parameters. Correct me again if I'm mistaken, but this facility to hook up events has been around since Access 1 whereas WithEvents is somewhat newer and more esoteric and less universally understood or used. I suspect that developers coming from a Visual Basic background are less familiar with the advantages of this approach, particularly when they bemoan the lack of control arrays. I suspect this facility is the reason that control arrays were never needed in Access. Like Arthur, it looks to me like you write a great deal more code than the one line each of us uses to hook a contol to a common not in list procedure because you need to write and maintain the framework. Ciao J?rgen Welz Edmonton, Alberta jwelz at hotmail.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com IMPORTANT - PLEASE READ ******************** This email and any files transmitted with it are confidential and may contain information protected by law from disclosure. If you have received this message in error, please notify the sender immediately and delete this email from your system. No warranty is given that this email or files, if attached to this email, are free from computer viruses or other defects. They are provided on the basis the user assumes all responsibility for loss, damage or consequence resulting directly or indirectly from their use, whether caused by the negligence of the sender or not. -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From andrew.haslett at ilc.gov.au Sun Mar 7 21:59:12 2004 From: andrew.haslett at ilc.gov.au (Haslett, Andrew) Date: Mon, 8 Mar 2004 14:29:12 +1030 Subject: [AccessD] Your favorite control behavior Message-ID: ;=) Nope - standard issue in .Net. Along with 'Self Documentation...' Pretty easy to pick up.. -----Original Message----- From: John W. Colby [mailto:jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com] Sent: Monday, 8 March 2004 2:23 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] Your favorite control behavior >The ability to create custom controls (as classes) and expose custom properties and methods is awesome in .Net, and something I've used extensively throughout my applications. And don't you worry that the "developers" out there won't understand your stuff? John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Haslett, Andrew Sent: Sunday, March 07, 2004 10:18 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: [AccessD] Your favorite control behavior Yep - I've been dev. In Access since 1.1 and love it, but tend to do very little consulting these days, simply as I find distributed applications and the related new technologies more interesting. I've been a little hesitant to jump on the bandwagon as I've always felt the form and report designer in Access was about as good as it gets, however Visual Studio.Net compares nicely. The ability to create custom controls (as classes) and expose custom properties and methods is awesome in .Net, and something I've used extensively throughout my applications. Interested to read your comments about the database element. I'm an MCDBA myself and have found the new objects in .Net used to connect to data stores, a huge improvement over previous versions. You must remember that the data stores for your applications are not 'embedded' in your application as they are in Access, and so obviously aren't going to have the same 'native' functionality, however this is inherent about distributed applications. To make the framework flexible, allowing multiple data sources, such as DB/XML/Web Services/etc -> that sort of functionality is simply not possible.. If that is what you're getting at, it only takes a bit of getting used to and you come to grips with disconnected data connections. I guess it was a little easier for me as I've developed web apps for quite some time and this methodology has been required throughout. I also imagine it would take a little getting used to binding your controls to data-sources, which is inherently easier in Access due to its embedded data-source, but again it's necessary (and often an advantage) in disconnected apps and there are tools provided (in VS.Net) to help with this process. I will continue to follow any framework discussions with interest. I'm also looking forward to upcoming versions of Access where perhaps the 'best of both worlds' will combine - even though I sense many here are not.. Cheers, Andrew -----Original Message----- From: John W. Colby [mailto:jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com] Sent: Monday, 8 March 2004 1:24 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] Your favorite control behavior Andrew, Yes, I am (slowly) learning .net. It's OO stuff is enough to make me drool. Unfortunately it's database stuff is weak and I am a database developer. Stick around (if you are an Access developer) for the framework discussion. Access' inheritance is non-existant so we use workarounds. If I could just inherit the form class and add my stuff I probably would do that but I can't. And of course controls don't have a class at all. Look in .net and a control is just a class that you can inherit like any other class. NICE!!! Lacking that in Access, classes out in a lib is a poor man's substitute and is what I am up to. John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Haslett, Andrew Sent: Sunday, March 07, 2004 9:41 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: [AccessD] Your favorite control behavior I always thought it was "I couldn't care less". Anyway, very interesting discussion. John, not sure if you've looked into yet, but the .Net languages (and many other OO languages I presume) will provide you with a lot of support for what you are trying to implement with your framework. Inherting your pages / controls from a base class will be ideal to 'inherit' common functionality that it seems you are doing. Custom controls (reusable) alse offer the capabilities you are creating with your framework. I haven't looked in detail at your framework or anything - just been browsing these discussions, but was interested to know if you've looked into .Net yet.., as I think you would find it quite interesting. Cheers, A -----Original Message----- From: John W. Colby [mailto:jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com] Sent: Monday, 8 March 2004 12:19 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] Your favorite control behavior >Correct me if I'm mistaken, but my understanding is that a form has >it's own class which you can multi instance in various ways and in which you can create property procedures and do any thing else one can do in a class of your own. It sounds not like you are creating a form class but a separate class to shadow the form class. Yep, you are correct. >The downside is needing to know the name of a control in order to be >able to operate with it. To program certain functionality (such as passing in the table / field / form to a combo for NotInList) that is correct. >The advantage of hooking up all default behaviors with a function is >that you can pass the procedure a reference to the actual control for which the event is triggered so there is no need for collections or code to run on the form open event. I see no advantage there. My form class scans all of my controls and loads a class for each control. That class hooks up all the functionality for them. I don't have to "make sure" I have cut the control from the right place so that stuff is in the event properties. >Every copy/paste of a control is automatically hooked up to the >standard events without ever writing any code except the single function procedures that all copies of the control trigger. So you have replaced writing a few lines of code in the Form's Open (standard, can be cut and pasted) with dozens of cuts and pastes of controls onto the form? Hmmm..... I can definitely see how this might be better.... >You can override the 'inherited' behavior by changing the function, >writing a specific event procedure or passing in one or more additional optional parameters. Of course you can. So can I using my framework and control classes. >Correct me again if I'm mistaken, but this facility to hook up events >has been around since Access 1 whereas WithEvents is somewhat newer and more esoteric and less universally understood or used. That's like saying "The car has been around a lot less time than the horse so why are we using a car". Sure, Withevents were not around when Access 1.0 came out, and of course this is not applicable to 1.0. More powerful tools are handed to us year after year. To say I am not going to use it because it wasn't available in 1.0 is silly and prevents adapting some very powerful tools. Jurgen, I could care less whether you want to use this stuff. I could care less whether you love hooking functions straight up to the event property. That is an option, and if that is the tool you choose to use, that is your business. I have explained to you why I don't touch that stuff, and why, when I have to take over an app where the previous developer uses that method it pains me greatly. I used to use it, don't get me wrong, it's just that there are tons of disadvantages and only one advantage, your "cut and paste" advantage. That "cut and paste" advantage isn't sufficient in my mind to overcome the disadvantages. In fact that advantage has been neatly replaced by Withevents in classes! You have a SINGLE function that you hook to a property, and you have a bunch of functions that you hook to a bunch of properties. I have a class that I pass a control to. I sink the events in that class, then call various functions of the class from those events. The results are similar, but not identical. I can for instance, turn on/off the behaviors using sysvars. My good friend William Hindman was using some stuff of mine and didn't like some specific things I was doing. I simply "switched it off" for him. Nothing more than "go in the sysvar table and set this sysvar = false. His system didn't use that behavior anymore. Try THAT with your method. A framework is waaaay more than just a function hooked to an event, or even a bunch of functions hooked to a bunch of events. It is a whole system that works together. My control classes talk to the form class. The form class loads SysVars that turn on and off functionality of the framework. I can override a given functionality for the entire application, or just for a given form in the application. The control classes "talk to" the form class and ask whether they should exhibit this behavior? The control class simply doesn't care whether the behavior is turned on / off for the entire application or just this form, all they care about is that they are supposed to exhibit the behavior THIS TIME, RIGHT NOW. Tomorrow the user might want the behavior and I go turn it on using a SysVar. TRY THAT with your "cut and paste" stuff!!! >Like Arthur, it looks to me like you write a great deal more code than >the one line each of us uses to hook a control to a common not in list procedure because you need to write and maintain the framework. You are 100% correct. I do write a whole lot more code than you do. In fact I write almost EXACTLY the same code you do, I just make it a part of a whole system rather than an isolated thing that happens. The "way more code" is the stuff required to tie it in and make it a system. When I design a form I don't "cut and paste" a bunch of controls so that they get hooked up properly. My form class loads control classes that hook everything up for me automatically. Whether I have one or a hundred combos on a form, every one can, if it needs it, have any of the various behaviors that the combo class provides. Why in the world would I go somewhere, "cut a control" and paste it in the form a hundred times? Furthermore I can take ANY form, load a form class in that form's Open and have all of my stuff just automatically applied to all of the controls on that form! All the combos suddenly know how to do combo stuff, all the text boxes suddenly know how to do text box stuff. If a given combo needs NotInList (and MANY don't), then a single line of code passes in the correct table / field / form for that combo to know how to do it. Try THAT with your "cut and paste" stuff! I seem to remember butting heads with you in the past. You were always about "the last ounce of (application) speed", and I simply don't care about that last ounce. I am more about speed of development and ease of maintenance. Your "cut and paste" does allow lightweight forms. I could care less. If that is what this is all about, I will hand you your "speed advantage" and you can walk away the winner. I will take my speed of development and ease of maintenance and I too will walk away a winner. I understand what you are doing, I have done it that way in the distant past. Listen to what I am trying to explain where frameworks are concerned, read it, UNDERSTAND it (ALL OF IT), and then if you still love your "cut and paste" stuff... "may the force be with you". And may I never have to maintain your apps! John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of J?rgen Welz Sent: Sunday, March 07, 2004 6:01 PM To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: RE: [AccessD] Your favorite control behavior Correct me if I'm mistaken, but my understanding is that a form has it's own class which you can multi instance in various ways and in which you can create property procedures and do any thing else one can do in a class of your own. It sounds not like you are creating a form class but a separate class to shadow the form class. The downside is needing to know the name of a control in order to be able to operate with it. The advantage of hooking up all default behaviors with a function is that you can pass the procedure a reference to the actual control for which the event is triggered so there is no need for collections or code to run on the form open event. Every copy/paste of a control is automatically hooked up to the standard events without ever writing any code except the single function procedures that all copies of the control trigger. You can override the 'inherited' behaviour by changing the function, writing a specific event procedure or passing in one or more additional optional parameters. Correct me again if I'm mistaken, but this facility to hook up events has been around since Access 1 whereas WithEvents is somewhat newer and more esoteric and less universally understood or used. I suspect that developers coming from a Visual Basic background are less familiar with the advantages of this approach, particularly when they bemoan the lack of control arrays. I suspect this facility is the reason that control arrays were never needed in Access. Like Arthur, it looks to me like you write a great deal more code than the one line each of us uses to hook a contol to a common not in list procedure because you need to write and maintain the framework. Ciao J?rgen Welz Edmonton, Alberta jwelz at hotmail.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com IMPORTANT - PLEASE READ ******************** This email and any files transmitted with it are confidential and may contain information protected by law from disclosure. If you have received this message in error, please notify the sender immediately and delete this email from your system. No warranty is given that this email or files, if attached to this email, are free from computer viruses or other defects. They are provided on the basis the user assumes all responsibility for loss, damage or consequence resulting directly or indirectly from their use, whether caused by the negligence of the sender or not. -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com IMPORTANT - PLEASE READ ******************** This email and any files transmitted with it are confidential and may contain information protected by law from disclosure. If you have received this message in error, please notify the sender immediately and delete this email from your system. No warranty is given that this email or files, if attached to this email, are free from computer viruses or other defects. They are provided on the basis the user assumes all responsibility for loss, damage or consequence resulting directly or indirectly from their use, whether caused by the negligence of the sender or not. From accessd at shaw.ca Sun Mar 7 23:09:28 2004 From: accessd at shaw.ca (Jim Lawrence (AccessD)) Date: Sun, 07 Mar 2004 21:09:28 -0800 Subject: [AccessD] Your favorite control behavior In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Hi John: I have always liked your framework structure concept. I have not been too interested in pursuing that application deployment as, and do not take this the wrong way, most of my work is with SQL server BEs and, correct me if I am wrong, but at first blush, your framework is designed to manage 'bound' DAO programs. My apps may or may not bind the recordsets and these recordset are used to populate the forms...one step removed. Also, I use ADO almost exclusively. Does your framework handle or can be made to handle ADO and Unbound forms? (but bound (qualified) recordsets) Jim -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of John W. Colby Sent: Sunday, March 07, 2004 6:54 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] Your favorite control behavior Andrew, Yes, I am (slowly) learning .net. It's OO stuff is enough to make me drool. Unfortunately it's database stuff is weak and I am a database developer. Stick around (if you are an Access developer) for the framework discussion. Access' inheritance is non-existant so we use workarounds. If I could just inherit the form class and add my stuff I probably would do that but I can't. And of course controls don't have a class at all. Look in .net and a control is just a class that you can inherit like any other class. NICE!!! Lacking that in Access, classes out in a lib is a poor man's substitute and is what I am up to. John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Haslett, Andrew Sent: Sunday, March 07, 2004 9:41 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: [AccessD] Your favorite control behavior I always thought it was "I couldn't care less". Anyway, very interesting discussion. John, not sure if you've looked into yet, but the .Net languages (and many other OO languages I presume) will provide you with a lot of support for what you are trying to implement with your framework. Inherting your pages / controls from a base class will be ideal to 'inherit' common functionality that it seems you are doing. Custom controls (reusable) alse offer the capabilities you are creating with your framework. I haven't looked in detail at your framework or anything - just been browsing these discussions, but was interested to know if you've looked into .Net yet.., as I think you would find it quite interesting. Cheers, A -----Original Message----- From: John W. Colby [mailto:jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com] Sent: Monday, 8 March 2004 12:19 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] Your favorite control behavior >Correct me if I'm mistaken, but my understanding is that a form has >it's own class which you can multi instance in various ways and in which you can create property procedures and do any thing else one can do in a class of your own. It sounds not like you are creating a form class but a separate class to shadow the form class. Yep, you are correct. >The downside is needing to know the name of a control in order to be >able to operate with it. To program certain functionality (such as passing in the table / field / form to a combo for NotInList) that is correct. >The advantage of hooking up all default behaviors with a function is >that you can pass the procedure a reference to the actual control for which the event is triggered so there is no need for collections or code to run on the form open event. I see no advantage there. My form class scans all of my controls and loads a class for each control. That class hooks up all the functionality for them. I don't have to "make sure" I have cut the control from the right place so that stuff is in the event properties. >Every copy/paste of a control is automatically hooked up to the >standard events without ever writing any code except the single function procedures that all copies of the control trigger. So you have replaced writing a few lines of code in the Form's Open (standard, can be cut and pasted) with dozens of cuts and pastes of controls onto the form? Hmmm..... I can definitely see how this might be better.... >You can override the 'inherited' behavior by changing the function, >writing a specific event procedure or passing in one or more additional optional parameters. Of course you can. So can I using my framework and control classes. >Correct me again if I'm mistaken, but this facility to hook up events >has been around since Access 1 whereas WithEvents is somewhat newer and more esoteric and less universally understood or used. That's like saying "The car has been around a lot less time than the horse so why are we using a car". Sure, Withevents were not around when Access 1.0 came out, and of course this is not applicable to 1.0. More powerful tools are handed to us year after year. To say I am not going to use it because it wasn't available in 1.0 is silly and prevents adapting some very powerful tools. Jurgen, I could care less whether you want to use this stuff. I could care less whether you love hooking functions straight up to the event property. That is an option, and if that is the tool you choose to use, that is your business. I have explained to you why I don't touch that stuff, and why, when I have to take over an app where the previous developer uses that method it pains me greatly. I used to use it, don't get me wrong, it's just that there are tons of disadvantages and only one advantage, your "cut and paste" advantage. That "cut and paste" advantage isn't sufficient in my mind to overcome the disadvantages. In fact that advantage has been neatly replaced by Withevents in classes! You have a SINGLE function that you hook to a property, and you have a bunch of functions that you hook to a bunch of properties. I have a class that I pass a control to. I sink the events in that class, then call various functions of the class from those events. The results are similar, but not identical. I can for instance, turn on/off the behaviors using sysvars. My good friend William Hindman was using some stuff of mine and didn't like some specific things I was doing. I simply "switched it off" for him. Nothing more than "go in the sysvar table and set this sysvar = false. His system didn't use that behavior anymore. Try THAT with your method. A framework is waaaay more than just a function hooked to an event, or even a bunch of functions hooked to a bunch of events. It is a whole system that works together. My control classes talk to the form class. The form class loads SysVars that turn on and off functionality of the framework. I can override a given functionality for the entire application, or just for a given form in the application. The control classes "talk to" the form class and ask whether they should exhibit this behavior? The control class simply doesn't care whether the behavior is turned on / off for the entire application or just this form, all they care about is that they are supposed to exhibit the behavior THIS TIME, RIGHT NOW. Tomorrow the user might want the behavior and I go turn it on using a SysVar. TRY THAT with your "cut and paste" stuff!!! >Like Arthur, it looks to me like you write a great deal more code than >the one line each of us uses to hook a control to a common not in list procedure because you need to write and maintain the framework. You are 100% correct. I do write a whole lot more code than you do. In fact I write almost EXACTLY the same code you do, I just make it a part of a whole system rather than an isolated thing that happens. The "way more code" is the stuff required to tie it in and make it a system. When I design a form I don't "cut and paste" a bunch of controls so that they get hooked up properly. My form class loads control classes that hook everything up for me automatically. Whether I have one or a hundred combos on a form, every one can, if it needs it, have any of the various behaviors that the combo class provides. Why in the world would I go somewhere, "cut a control" and paste it in the form a hundred times? Furthermore I can take ANY form, load a form class in that form's Open and have all of my stuff just automatically applied to all of the controls on that form! All the combos suddenly know how to do combo stuff, all the text boxes suddenly know how to do text box stuff. If a given combo needs NotInList (and MANY don't), then a single line of code passes in the correct table / field / form for that combo to know how to do it. Try THAT with your "cut and paste" stuff! I seem to remember butting heads with you in the past. You were always about "the last ounce of (application) speed", and I simply don't care about that last ounce. I am more about speed of development and ease of maintenance. Your "cut and paste" does allow lightweight forms. I could care less. If that is what this is all about, I will hand you your "speed advantage" and you can walk away the winner. I will take my speed of development and ease of maintenance and I too will walk away a winner. I understand what you are doing, I have done it that way in the distant past. Listen to what I am trying to explain where frameworks are concerned, read it, UNDERSTAND it (ALL OF IT), and then if you still love your "cut and paste" stuff... "may the force be with you". And may I never have to maintain your apps! John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of J?rgen Welz Sent: Sunday, March 07, 2004 6:01 PM To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: RE: [AccessD] Your favorite control behavior Correct me if I'm mistaken, but my understanding is that a form has it's own class which you can multi instance in various ways and in which you can create property procedures and do any thing else one can do in a class of your own. It sounds not like you are creating a form class but a separate class to shadow the form class. The downside is needing to know the name of a control in order to be able to operate with it. The advantage of hooking up all default behaviors with a function is that you can pass the procedure a reference to the actual control for which the event is triggered so there is no need for collections or code to run on the form open event. Every copy/paste of a control is automatically hooked up to the standard events without ever writing any code except the single function procedures that all copies of the control trigger. You can override the 'inherited' behaviour by changing the function, writing a specific event procedure or passing in one or more additional optional parameters. Correct me again if I'm mistaken, but this facility to hook up events has been around since Access 1 whereas WithEvents is somewhat newer and more esoteric and less universally understood or used. I suspect that developers coming from a Visual Basic background are less familiar with the advantages of this approach, particularly when they bemoan the lack of control arrays. I suspect this facility is the reason that control arrays were never needed in Access. Like Arthur, it looks to me like you write a great deal more code than the one line each of us uses to hook a contol to a common not in list procedure because you need to write and maintain the framework. Ciao J?rgen Welz Edmonton, Alberta jwelz at hotmail.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com Sun Mar 7 23:56:08 2004 From: jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com (John W. Colby) Date: Mon, 8 Mar 2004 00:56:08 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Your favorite control behavior In-Reply-To: Message-ID: The answer to ADO is yes... with the exception of the form RecordsetClone property which is by definition DAO. I use ADO exclusively in my current framework except for the recordsetclone stuff. I use recordsetclone to get a handle to the current recordset, as well as the current position of the form (what record is displaying) and use that to "move" the form to display a different record etc. As for unbound, hmmm... it probably could. I use a lot of tricks in my framework such as looking at the field that the control is bound to discover the field name, and now that I know how to do so (using DAO) drilling clear down to the table name and field name. So the answer to that is probably, but you might lose a lot of neat functionality. I'd LOVE to work with an extremely competent SQL Server developer / programmer in doing this though since I am going to need this functionality but don't know SQL Server that well. John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Jim Lawrence (AccessD) Sent: Monday, March 08, 2004 12:09 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] Your favorite control behavior Hi John: I have always liked your framework structure concept. I have not been too interested in pursuing that application deployment as, and do not take this the wrong way, most of my work is with SQL server BEs and, correct me if I am wrong, but at first blush, your framework is designed to manage 'bound' DAO programs. My apps may or may not bind the recordsets and these recordset are used to populate the forms...one step removed. Also, I use ADO almost exclusively. Does your framework handle or can be made to handle ADO and Unbound forms? (but bound (qualified) recordsets) Jim -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of John W. Colby Sent: Sunday, March 07, 2004 6:54 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] Your favorite control behavior Andrew, Yes, I am (slowly) learning .net. It's OO stuff is enough to make me drool. Unfortunately it's database stuff is weak and I am a database developer. Stick around (if you are an Access developer) for the framework discussion. Access' inheritance is non-existant so we use workarounds. If I could just inherit the form class and add my stuff I probably would do that but I can't. And of course controls don't have a class at all. Look in .net and a control is just a class that you can inherit like any other class. NICE!!! Lacking that in Access, classes out in a lib is a poor man's substitute and is what I am up to. John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Haslett, Andrew Sent: Sunday, March 07, 2004 9:41 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: [AccessD] Your favorite control behavior I always thought it was "I couldn't care less". Anyway, very interesting discussion. John, not sure if you've looked into yet, but the .Net languages (and many other OO languages I presume) will provide you with a lot of support for what you are trying to implement with your framework. Inherting your pages / controls from a base class will be ideal to 'inherit' common functionality that it seems you are doing. Custom controls (reusable) alse offer the capabilities you are creating with your framework. I haven't looked in detail at your framework or anything - just been browsing these discussions, but was interested to know if you've looked into .Net yet.., as I think you would find it quite interesting. Cheers, A -----Original Message----- From: John W. Colby [mailto:jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com] Sent: Monday, 8 March 2004 12:19 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] Your favorite control behavior >Correct me if I'm mistaken, but my understanding is that a form has >it's own class which you can multi instance in various ways and in which you can create property procedures and do any thing else one can do in a class of your own. It sounds not like you are creating a form class but a separate class to shadow the form class. Yep, you are correct. >The downside is needing to know the name of a control in order to be >able to operate with it. To program certain functionality (such as passing in the table / field / form to a combo for NotInList) that is correct. >The advantage of hooking up all default behaviors with a function is >that you can pass the procedure a reference to the actual control for which the event is triggered so there is no need for collections or code to run on the form open event. I see no advantage there. My form class scans all of my controls and loads a class for each control. That class hooks up all the functionality for them. I don't have to "make sure" I have cut the control from the right place so that stuff is in the event properties. >Every copy/paste of a control is automatically hooked up to the >standard events without ever writing any code except the single function procedures that all copies of the control trigger. So you have replaced writing a few lines of code in the Form's Open (standard, can be cut and pasted) with dozens of cuts and pastes of controls onto the form? Hmmm..... I can definitely see how this might be better.... >You can override the 'inherited' behavior by changing the function, >writing a specific event procedure or passing in one or more additional optional parameters. Of course you can. So can I using my framework and control classes. >Correct me again if I'm mistaken, but this facility to hook up events >has been around since Access 1 whereas WithEvents is somewhat newer and more esoteric and less universally understood or used. That's like saying "The car has been around a lot less time than the horse so why are we using a car". Sure, Withevents were not around when Access 1.0 came out, and of course this is not applicable to 1.0. More powerful tools are handed to us year after year. To say I am not going to use it because it wasn't available in 1.0 is silly and prevents adapting some very powerful tools. Jurgen, I could care less whether you want to use this stuff. I could care less whether you love hooking functions straight up to the event property. That is an option, and if that is the tool you choose to use, that is your business. I have explained to you why I don't touch that stuff, and why, when I have to take over an app where the previous developer uses that method it pains me greatly. I used to use it, don't get me wrong, it's just that there are tons of disadvantages and only one advantage, your "cut and paste" advantage. That "cut and paste" advantage isn't sufficient in my mind to overcome the disadvantages. In fact that advantage has been neatly replaced by Withevents in classes! You have a SINGLE function that you hook to a property, and you have a bunch of functions that you hook to a bunch of properties. I have a class that I pass a control to. I sink the events in that class, then call various functions of the class from those events. The results are similar, but not identical. I can for instance, turn on/off the behaviors using sysvars. My good friend William Hindman was using some stuff of mine and didn't like some specific things I was doing. I simply "switched it off" for him. Nothing more than "go in the sysvar table and set this sysvar = false. His system didn't use that behavior anymore. Try THAT with your method. A framework is waaaay more than just a function hooked to an event, or even a bunch of functions hooked to a bunch of events. It is a whole system that works together. My control classes talk to the form class. The form class loads SysVars that turn on and off functionality of the framework. I can override a given functionality for the entire application, or just for a given form in the application. The control classes "talk to" the form class and ask whether they should exhibit this behavior? The control class simply doesn't care whether the behavior is turned on / off for the entire application or just this form, all they care about is that they are supposed to exhibit the behavior THIS TIME, RIGHT NOW. Tomorrow the user might want the behavior and I go turn it on using a SysVar. TRY THAT with your "cut and paste" stuff!!! >Like Arthur, it looks to me like you write a great deal more code than >the one line each of us uses to hook a control to a common not in list procedure because you need to write and maintain the framework. You are 100% correct. I do write a whole lot more code than you do. In fact I write almost EXACTLY the same code you do, I just make it a part of a whole system rather than an isolated thing that happens. The "way more code" is the stuff required to tie it in and make it a system. When I design a form I don't "cut and paste" a bunch of controls so that they get hooked up properly. My form class loads control classes that hook everything up for me automatically. Whether I have one or a hundred combos on a form, every one can, if it needs it, have any of the various behaviors that the combo class provides. Why in the world would I go somewhere, "cut a control" and paste it in the form a hundred times? Furthermore I can take ANY form, load a form class in that form's Open and have all of my stuff just automatically applied to all of the controls on that form! All the combos suddenly know how to do combo stuff, all the text boxes suddenly know how to do text box stuff. If a given combo needs NotInList (and MANY don't), then a single line of code passes in the correct table / field / form for that combo to know how to do it. Try THAT with your "cut and paste" stuff! I seem to remember butting heads with you in the past. You were always about "the last ounce of (application) speed", and I simply don't care about that last ounce. I am more about speed of development and ease of maintenance. Your "cut and paste" does allow lightweight forms. I could care less. If that is what this is all about, I will hand you your "speed advantage" and you can walk away the winner. I will take my speed of development and ease of maintenance and I too will walk away a winner. I understand what you are doing, I have done it that way in the distant past. Listen to what I am trying to explain where frameworks are concerned, read it, UNDERSTAND it (ALL OF IT), and then if you still love your "cut and paste" stuff... "may the force be with you". And may I never have to maintain your apps! John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of J?rgen Welz Sent: Sunday, March 07, 2004 6:01 PM To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: RE: [AccessD] Your favorite control behavior Correct me if I'm mistaken, but my understanding is that a form has it's own class which you can multi instance in various ways and in which you can create property procedures and do any thing else one can do in a class of your own. It sounds not like you are creating a form class but a separate class to shadow the form class. The downside is needing to know the name of a control in order to be able to operate with it. The advantage of hooking up all default behaviors with a function is that you can pass the procedure a reference to the actual control for which the event is triggered so there is no need for collections or code to run on the form open event. Every copy/paste of a control is automatically hooked up to the standard events without ever writing any code except the single function procedures that all copies of the control trigger. You can override the 'inherited' behaviour by changing the function, writing a specific event procedure or passing in one or more additional optional parameters. Correct me again if I'm mistaken, but this facility to hook up events has been around since Access 1 whereas WithEvents is somewhat newer and more esoteric and less universally understood or used. I suspect that developers coming from a Visual Basic background are less familiar with the advantages of this approach, particularly when they bemoan the lack of control arrays. I suspect this facility is the reason that control arrays were never needed in Access. Like Arthur, it looks to me like you write a great deal more code than the one line each of us uses to hook a contol to a common not in list procedure because you need to write and maintain the framework. Ciao J?rgen Welz Edmonton, Alberta jwelz at hotmail.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From jwelz at hotmail.com Mon Mar 8 00:32:14 2004 From: jwelz at hotmail.com (Jürgen Welz) Date: Sun, 07 Mar 2004 23:32:14 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] Your favorite control behavior Message-ID: Assuming the is directed my way: I have been working with .NET as well as Java. .Net is Microsoft's attempt to make something similar to Java with the same kind of OO capabilities, garbage collection, security and error handling. The .NET languages strongly resemble Java in many respects. I'm not worried about understanding object oriented principles and there are many programmers who do. I do have reservations about trying to fit a square peg like Access into some round holes. You can force it but it isn't a great fit. Access only has quasi OO capabilities and the average college graduate around here who learns Java and will find frustration, as do I, with the limitations of Access. I have ofen had the need to use Access to do things it wasn't intended to do because it was the only tool permitted where I worked to meet tasks beyond the ususal scope of Access. I have reservations about the abilities of average Access developers or full blown OO developers to work in this no man's land somewhere between the two. It can be done, but why bother. Ciao J?rgen Welz Edmonton, Alberta jwelz at hotmail.com >From: "John W. Colby" > > >The ability to create custom controls (as classes) and expose custom >properties and methods is awesome in .Net, and something I've used >extensively throughout my applications. > >And don't you worry that the "developers" out there won't understand your >stuff? > >John W. Colby >www.ColbyConsulting.com _________________________________________________________________ MSN Premium helps eliminate e-mail viruses. Get 2 months FREE* http://join.msn.com/?pgmarket=en-ca&page=byoa/prem&xAPID=1994&DI=1034&SU=http://hotmail.com/enca&HL=Market_MSNIS_Taglines From andrew.haslett at ilc.gov.au Mon Mar 8 00:53:30 2004 From: andrew.haslett at ilc.gov.au (Haslett, Andrew) Date: Mon, 8 Mar 2004 17:23:30 +1030 Subject: [AccessD] Your favorite control behavior Message-ID: I'm not sure exactly what point you're trying to make. I don't imagine Access was ever really designed to be OO. Why should they have built in capabilities to make 'Java college graduates' less frustrated. I would much rather them spend their available time fixing existing bugs and improving more important features. *If* they provide improved OO capabilities in future versions, I'm sure they will provide interfaces for users who do not have OO skills to continue to program in. I've not yet looked into the new Office related .Net stuff but I'm sure it partly serves this purpose.., from a distributed angle anyway (ie not from the Access IDE) -----Original Message----- From: J?rgen Welz [mailto:jwelz at hotmail.com] Sent: Monday, 8 March 2004 5:02 PM To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: RE: [AccessD] Your favorite control behavior Assuming the is directed my way: I have been working with .NET as well as Java. .Net is Microsoft's attempt to make something similar to Java with the same kind of OO capabilities, garbage collection, security and error handling. The .NET languages strongly resemble Java in many respects. I'm not worried about understanding object oriented principles and there are many programmers who do. I do have reservations about trying to fit a square peg like Access into some round holes. You can force it but it isn't a great fit. Access only has quasi OO capabilities and the average college graduate around here who learns Java and will find frustration, as do I, with the limitations of Access. I have ofen had the need to use Access to do things it wasn't intended to do because it was the only tool permitted where I worked to meet tasks beyond the ususal scope of Access. I have reservations about the abilities of average Access developers or full blown OO developers to work in this no man's land somewhere between the two. It can be done, but why bother. Ciao J?rgen Welz Edmonton, Alberta jwelz at hotmail.com >From: "John W. Colby" > > >The ability to create custom controls (as classes) and expose custom >properties and methods is awesome in .Net, and something I've used >extensively throughout my applications. > >And don't you worry that the "developers" out there won't understand >your stuff? > >John W. Colby >www.ColbyConsulting.com _________________________________________________________________ MSN Premium helps eliminate e-mail viruses. Get 2 months FREE* http://join.msn.com/?pgmarket=en-ca&page=byoa/prem&xAPID=1994&DI=1034&SU=htt p://hotmail.com/enca&HL=Market_MSNIS_Taglines -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com IMPORTANT - PLEASE READ ******************** This email and any files transmitted with it are confidential and may contain information protected by law from disclosure. If you have received this message in error, please notify the sender immediately and delete this email from your system. No warranty is given that this email or files, if attached to this email, are free from computer viruses or other defects. They are provided on the basis the user assumes all responsibility for loss, damage or consequence resulting directly or indirectly from their use, whether caused by the negligence of the sender or not. From andrew.haslett at ilc.gov.au Mon Mar 8 00:55:47 2004 From: andrew.haslett at ilc.gov.au (Haslett, Andrew) Date: Mon, 8 Mar 2004 17:25:47 +1030 Subject: [AccessD] Your favorite control behavior Message-ID: >>I'd LOVE to work with an extremely competent SQL Server developer / programmer in >> doing this though since I am going to need this functionality but don't know SQL Server that well I don't think its SS as much as interfacing with the (OLEDB) driver used to communicate between Access and SQL. That's where your equivalent recordset behaviours come in. Unless youre talking about wrapping your functionality in Stored Procs using a disconnected framework... -----Original Message----- From: John W. Colby [mailto:jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com] Sent: Monday, 8 March 2004 4:26 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] Your favorite control behavior The answer to ADO is yes... with the exception of the form RecordsetClone property which is by definition DAO. I use ADO exclusively in my current framework except for the recordsetclone stuff. I use recordsetclone to get a handle to the current recordset, as well as the current position of the form (what record is displaying) and use that to "move" the form to display a different record etc. As for unbound, hmmm... it probably could. I use a lot of tricks in my framework such as looking at the field that the control is bound to discover the field name, and now that I know how to do so (using DAO) drilling clear down to the table name and field name. So the answer to that is probably, but you might lose a lot of neat functionality. I'd LOVE to work with an extremely competent SQL Server developer / programmer in doing this though since I am going to need this functionality but don't know SQL Server that well. John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Jim Lawrence (AccessD) Sent: Monday, March 08, 2004 12:09 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] Your favorite control behavior Hi John: I have always liked your framework structure concept. I have not been too interested in pursuing that application deployment as, and do not take this the wrong way, most of my work is with SQL server BEs and, correct me if I am wrong, but at first blush, your framework is designed to manage 'bound' DAO programs. My apps may or may not bind the recordsets and these recordset are used to populate the forms...one step removed. Also, I use ADO almost exclusively. Does your framework handle or can be made to handle ADO and Unbound forms? (but bound (qualified) recordsets) Jim -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of John W. Colby Sent: Sunday, March 07, 2004 6:54 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] Your favorite control behavior Andrew, Yes, I am (slowly) learning .net. It's OO stuff is enough to make me drool. Unfortunately it's database stuff is weak and I am a database developer. Stick around (if you are an Access developer) for the framework discussion. Access' inheritance is non-existant so we use workarounds. If I could just inherit the form class and add my stuff I probably would do that but I can't. And of course controls don't have a class at all. Look in .net and a control is just a class that you can inherit like any other class. NICE!!! Lacking that in Access, classes out in a lib is a poor man's substitute and is what I am up to. John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Haslett, Andrew Sent: Sunday, March 07, 2004 9:41 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: [AccessD] Your favorite control behavior I always thought it was "I couldn't care less". Anyway, very interesting discussion. John, not sure if you've looked into yet, but the .Net languages (and many other OO languages I presume) will provide you with a lot of support for what you are trying to implement with your framework. Inherting your pages / controls from a base class will be ideal to 'inherit' common functionality that it seems you are doing. Custom controls (reusable) alse offer the capabilities you are creating with your framework. I haven't looked in detail at your framework or anything - just been browsing these discussions, but was interested to know if you've looked into .Net yet.., as I think you would find it quite interesting. Cheers, A -----Original Message----- From: John W. Colby [mailto:jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com] Sent: Monday, 8 March 2004 12:19 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] Your favorite control behavior >Correct me if I'm mistaken, but my understanding is that a form has >it's own class which you can multi instance in various ways and in which you can create property procedures and do any thing else one can do in a class of your own. It sounds not like you are creating a form class but a separate class to shadow the form class. Yep, you are correct. >The downside is needing to know the name of a control in order to be >able to operate with it. To program certain functionality (such as passing in the table / field / form to a combo for NotInList) that is correct. >The advantage of hooking up all default behaviors with a function is >that you can pass the procedure a reference to the actual control for which the event is triggered so there is no need for collections or code to run on the form open event. I see no advantage there. My form class scans all of my controls and loads a class for each control. That class hooks up all the functionality for them. I don't have to "make sure" I have cut the control from the right place so that stuff is in the event properties. >Every copy/paste of a control is automatically hooked up to the >standard events without ever writing any code except the single function procedures that all copies of the control trigger. So you have replaced writing a few lines of code in the Form's Open (standard, can be cut and pasted) with dozens of cuts and pastes of controls onto the form? Hmmm..... I can definitely see how this might be better.... >You can override the 'inherited' behavior by changing the function, >writing a specific event procedure or passing in one or more additional optional parameters. Of course you can. So can I using my framework and control classes. >Correct me again if I'm mistaken, but this facility to hook up events >has been around since Access 1 whereas WithEvents is somewhat newer and more esoteric and less universally understood or used. That's like saying "The car has been around a lot less time than the horse so why are we using a car". Sure, Withevents were not around when Access 1.0 came out, and of course this is not applicable to 1.0. More powerful tools are handed to us year after year. To say I am not going to use it because it wasn't available in 1.0 is silly and prevents adapting some very powerful tools. Jurgen, I could care less whether you want to use this stuff. I could care less whether you love hooking functions straight up to the event property. That is an option, and if that is the tool you choose to use, that is your business. I have explained to you why I don't touch that stuff, and why, when I have to take over an app where the previous developer uses that method it pains me greatly. I used to use it, don't get me wrong, it's just that there are tons of disadvantages and only one advantage, your "cut and paste" advantage. That "cut and paste" advantage isn't sufficient in my mind to overcome the disadvantages. In fact that advantage has been neatly replaced by Withevents in classes! You have a SINGLE function that you hook to a property, and you have a bunch of functions that you hook to a bunch of properties. I have a class that I pass a control to. I sink the events in that class, then call various functions of the class from those events. The results are similar, but not identical. I can for instance, turn on/off the behaviors using sysvars. My good friend William Hindman was using some stuff of mine and didn't like some specific things I was doing. I simply "switched it off" for him. Nothing more than "go in the sysvar table and set this sysvar = false. His system didn't use that behavior anymore. Try THAT with your method. A framework is waaaay more than just a function hooked to an event, or even a bunch of functions hooked to a bunch of events. It is a whole system that works together. My control classes talk to the form class. The form class loads SysVars that turn on and off functionality of the framework. I can override a given functionality for the entire application, or just for a given form in the application. The control classes "talk to" the form class and ask whether they should exhibit this behavior? The control class simply doesn't care whether the behavior is turned on / off for the entire application or just this form, all they care about is that they are supposed to exhibit the behavior THIS TIME, RIGHT NOW. Tomorrow the user might want the behavior and I go turn it on using a SysVar. TRY THAT with your "cut and paste" stuff!!! >Like Arthur, it looks to me like you write a great deal more code than >the one line each of us uses to hook a control to a common not in list procedure because you need to write and maintain the framework. You are 100% correct. I do write a whole lot more code than you do. In fact I write almost EXACTLY the same code you do, I just make it a part of a whole system rather than an isolated thing that happens. The "way more code" is the stuff required to tie it in and make it a system. When I design a form I don't "cut and paste" a bunch of controls so that they get hooked up properly. My form class loads control classes that hook everything up for me automatically. Whether I have one or a hundred combos on a form, every one can, if it needs it, have any of the various behaviors that the combo class provides. Why in the world would I go somewhere, "cut a control" and paste it in the form a hundred times? Furthermore I can take ANY form, load a form class in that form's Open and have all of my stuff just automatically applied to all of the controls on that form! All the combos suddenly know how to do combo stuff, all the text boxes suddenly know how to do text box stuff. If a given combo needs NotInList (and MANY don't), then a single line of code passes in the correct table / field / form for that combo to know how to do it. Try THAT with your "cut and paste" stuff! I seem to remember butting heads with you in the past. You were always about "the last ounce of (application) speed", and I simply don't care about that last ounce. I am more about speed of development and ease of maintenance. Your "cut and paste" does allow lightweight forms. I could care less. If that is what this is all about, I will hand you your "speed advantage" and you can walk away the winner. I will take my speed of development and ease of maintenance and I too will walk away a winner. I understand what you are doing, I have done it that way in the distant past. Listen to what I am trying to explain where frameworks are concerned, read it, UNDERSTAND it (ALL OF IT), and then if you still love your "cut and paste" stuff... "may the force be with you". And may I never have to maintain your apps! John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of J?rgen Welz Sent: Sunday, March 07, 2004 6:01 PM To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: RE: [AccessD] Your favorite control behavior Correct me if I'm mistaken, but my understanding is that a form has it's own class which you can multi instance in various ways and in which you can create property procedures and do any thing else one can do in a class of your own. It sounds not like you are creating a form class but a separate class to shadow the form class. The downside is needing to know the name of a control in order to be able to operate with it. The advantage of hooking up all default behaviors with a function is that you can pass the procedure a reference to the actual control for which the event is triggered so there is no need for collections or code to run on the form open event. Every copy/paste of a control is automatically hooked up to the standard events without ever writing any code except the single function procedures that all copies of the control trigger. You can override the 'inherited' behaviour by changing the function, writing a specific event procedure or passing in one or more additional optional parameters. Correct me again if I'm mistaken, but this facility to hook up events has been around since Access 1 whereas WithEvents is somewhat newer and more esoteric and less universally understood or used. I suspect that developers coming from a Visual Basic background are less familiar with the advantages of this approach, particularly when they bemoan the lack of control arrays. I suspect this facility is the reason that control arrays were never needed in Access. Like Arthur, it looks to me like you write a great deal more code than the one line each of us uses to hook a contol to a common not in list procedure because you need to write and maintain the framework. Ciao J?rgen Welz Edmonton, Alberta jwelz at hotmail.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com IMPORTANT - PLEASE READ ******************** This email and any files transmitted with it are confidential and may contain information protected by law from disclosure. If you have received this message in error, please notify the sender immediately and delete this email from your system. No warranty is given that this email or files, if attached to this email, are free from computer viruses or other defects. They are provided on the basis the user assumes all responsibility for loss, damage or consequence resulting directly or indirectly from their use, whether caused by the negligence of the sender or not. From rsmethurst at UK.EY.COM Mon Mar 8 04:57:29 2004 From: rsmethurst at UK.EY.COM (rsmethurst at UK.EY.COM) Date: Mon, 8 Mar 2004 10:57:29 +0000 Subject: [AccessD] Disallowing cutting Message-ID: Hi All, I have a graph on a form, which should be able to be copied from Access, but I need to ensure that it can't be cut. Has anyone done anything similar in the past? TIA Ryan This e-mail and any attachment are confidential and contain proprietary information, some or all of which may be legally privileged. It is intended solely for the use of the individual or entity to which it is addressed. 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From jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com Mon Mar 8 06:44:51 2004 From: jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com (John W. Colby) Date: Mon, 8 Mar 2004 07:44:51 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Your favorite control behavior In-Reply-To: Message-ID: You are correct however I can't efficiently do that since I don't understand the "working with" SQL Server enough to get anywhere. I have a client who is moving one of my apps to SQL Server. It would be nice to be able to get the framework "SQL Server compliant" whatever that may mean. Unfortunately they are using A2K and will continue to do so for quite some time I'm afraid. And I squeeze every bit of "interface" out of Access using things like queries that reference controls on forms, queries that reference my own custom VB (or for that matter Built-in) functions. Both of these are no-nos when working with SQL Server. So it is very much a combination of making the framework itself "data store independent" as well as MY learning how to replace what I do with what will work with SQL Server (or rather non-jet) data stores. For BOTH, I could use an expert in squeezing the last ounce of "interface" out of non-Jet data stores. John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Haslett, Andrew Sent: Monday, March 08, 2004 1:56 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: [AccessD] Your favorite control behavior >>I'd LOVE to work with an extremely competent SQL Server developer / programmer in >> doing this though since I am going to need this functionality but don't know SQL Server that well I don't think its SS as much as interfacing with the (OLEDB) driver used to communicate between Access and SQL. That's where your equivalent recordset behaviours come in. Unless youre talking about wrapping your functionality in Stored Procs using a disconnected framework... -----Original Message----- From: John W. Colby [mailto:jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com] Sent: Monday, 8 March 2004 4:26 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] Your favorite control behavior The answer to ADO is yes... with the exception of the form RecordsetClone property which is by definition DAO. I use ADO exclusively in my current framework except for the recordsetclone stuff. I use recordsetclone to get a handle to the current recordset, as well as the current position of the form (what record is displaying) and use that to "move" the form to display a different record etc. As for unbound, hmmm... it probably could. I use a lot of tricks in my framework such as looking at the field that the control is bound to discover the field name, and now that I know how to do so (using DAO) drilling clear down to the table name and field name. So the answer to that is probably, but you might lose a lot of neat functionality. I'd LOVE to work with an extremely competent SQL Server developer / programmer in doing this though since I am going to need this functionality but don't know SQL Server that well. John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Jim Lawrence (AccessD) Sent: Monday, March 08, 2004 12:09 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] Your favorite control behavior Hi John: I have always liked your framework structure concept. I have not been too interested in pursuing that application deployment as, and do not take this the wrong way, most of my work is with SQL server BEs and, correct me if I am wrong, but at first blush, your framework is designed to manage 'bound' DAO programs. My apps may or may not bind the recordsets and these recordset are used to populate the forms...one step removed. Also, I use ADO almost exclusively. Does your framework handle or can be made to handle ADO and Unbound forms? (but bound (qualified) recordsets) Jim -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of John W. Colby Sent: Sunday, March 07, 2004 6:54 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] Your favorite control behavior Andrew, Yes, I am (slowly) learning .net. It's OO stuff is enough to make me drool. Unfortunately it's database stuff is weak and I am a database developer. Stick around (if you are an Access developer) for the framework discussion. Access' inheritance is non-existant so we use workarounds. If I could just inherit the form class and add my stuff I probably would do that but I can't. And of course controls don't have a class at all. Look in .net and a control is just a class that you can inherit like any other class. NICE!!! Lacking that in Access, classes out in a lib is a poor man's substitute and is what I am up to. John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Haslett, Andrew Sent: Sunday, March 07, 2004 9:41 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: [AccessD] Your favorite control behavior I always thought it was "I couldn't care less". Anyway, very interesting discussion. John, not sure if you've looked into yet, but the .Net languages (and many other OO languages I presume) will provide you with a lot of support for what you are trying to implement with your framework. Inherting your pages / controls from a base class will be ideal to 'inherit' common functionality that it seems you are doing. Custom controls (reusable) alse offer the capabilities you are creating with your framework. I haven't looked in detail at your framework or anything - just been browsing these discussions, but was interested to know if you've looked into .Net yet.., as I think you would find it quite interesting. Cheers, A -----Original Message----- From: John W. Colby [mailto:jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com] Sent: Monday, 8 March 2004 12:19 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] Your favorite control behavior >Correct me if I'm mistaken, but my understanding is that a form has >it's own class which you can multi instance in various ways and in which you can create property procedures and do any thing else one can do in a class of your own. It sounds not like you are creating a form class but a separate class to shadow the form class. Yep, you are correct. >The downside is needing to know the name of a control in order to be >able to operate with it. To program certain functionality (such as passing in the table / field / form to a combo for NotInList) that is correct. >The advantage of hooking up all default behaviors with a function is >that you can pass the procedure a reference to the actual control for which the event is triggered so there is no need for collections or code to run on the form open event. I see no advantage there. My form class scans all of my controls and loads a class for each control. That class hooks up all the functionality for them. I don't have to "make sure" I have cut the control from the right place so that stuff is in the event properties. >Every copy/paste of a control is automatically hooked up to the >standard events without ever writing any code except the single function procedures that all copies of the control trigger. So you have replaced writing a few lines of code in the Form's Open (standard, can be cut and pasted) with dozens of cuts and pastes of controls onto the form? Hmmm..... I can definitely see how this might be better.... >You can override the 'inherited' behavior by changing the function, >writing a specific event procedure or passing in one or more additional optional parameters. Of course you can. So can I using my framework and control classes. >Correct me again if I'm mistaken, but this facility to hook up events >has been around since Access 1 whereas WithEvents is somewhat newer and more esoteric and less universally understood or used. That's like saying "The car has been around a lot less time than the horse so why are we using a car". Sure, Withevents were not around when Access 1.0 came out, and of course this is not applicable to 1.0. More powerful tools are handed to us year after year. To say I am not going to use it because it wasn't available in 1.0 is silly and prevents adapting some very powerful tools. Jurgen, I could care less whether you want to use this stuff. I could care less whether you love hooking functions straight up to the event property. That is an option, and if that is the tool you choose to use, that is your business. I have explained to you why I don't touch that stuff, and why, when I have to take over an app where the previous developer uses that method it pains me greatly. I used to use it, don't get me wrong, it's just that there are tons of disadvantages and only one advantage, your "cut and paste" advantage. That "cut and paste" advantage isn't sufficient in my mind to overcome the disadvantages. In fact that advantage has been neatly replaced by Withevents in classes! You have a SINGLE function that you hook to a property, and you have a bunch of functions that you hook to a bunch of properties. I have a class that I pass a control to. I sink the events in that class, then call various functions of the class from those events. The results are similar, but not identical. I can for instance, turn on/off the behaviors using sysvars. My good friend William Hindman was using some stuff of mine and didn't like some specific things I was doing. I simply "switched it off" for him. Nothing more than "go in the sysvar table and set this sysvar = false. His system didn't use that behavior anymore. Try THAT with your method. A framework is waaaay more than just a function hooked to an event, or even a bunch of functions hooked to a bunch of events. It is a whole system that works together. My control classes talk to the form class. The form class loads SysVars that turn on and off functionality of the framework. I can override a given functionality for the entire application, or just for a given form in the application. The control classes "talk to" the form class and ask whether they should exhibit this behavior? The control class simply doesn't care whether the behavior is turned on / off for the entire application or just this form, all they care about is that they are supposed to exhibit the behavior THIS TIME, RIGHT NOW. Tomorrow the user might want the behavior and I go turn it on using a SysVar. TRY THAT with your "cut and paste" stuff!!! >Like Arthur, it looks to me like you write a great deal more code than >the one line each of us uses to hook a control to a common not in list procedure because you need to write and maintain the framework. You are 100% correct. I do write a whole lot more code than you do. In fact I write almost EXACTLY the same code you do, I just make it a part of a whole system rather than an isolated thing that happens. The "way more code" is the stuff required to tie it in and make it a system. When I design a form I don't "cut and paste" a bunch of controls so that they get hooked up properly. My form class loads control classes that hook everything up for me automatically. Whether I have one or a hundred combos on a form, every one can, if it needs it, have any of the various behaviors that the combo class provides. Why in the world would I go somewhere, "cut a control" and paste it in the form a hundred times? Furthermore I can take ANY form, load a form class in that form's Open and have all of my stuff just automatically applied to all of the controls on that form! All the combos suddenly know how to do combo stuff, all the text boxes suddenly know how to do text box stuff. If a given combo needs NotInList (and MANY don't), then a single line of code passes in the correct table / field / form for that combo to know how to do it. Try THAT with your "cut and paste" stuff! I seem to remember butting heads with you in the past. You were always about "the last ounce of (application) speed", and I simply don't care about that last ounce. I am more about speed of development and ease of maintenance. Your "cut and paste" does allow lightweight forms. I could care less. If that is what this is all about, I will hand you your "speed advantage" and you can walk away the winner. I will take my speed of development and ease of maintenance and I too will walk away a winner. I understand what you are doing, I have done it that way in the distant past. Listen to what I am trying to explain where frameworks are concerned, read it, UNDERSTAND it (ALL OF IT), and then if you still love your "cut and paste" stuff... "may the force be with you". And may I never have to maintain your apps! John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of J?rgen Welz Sent: Sunday, March 07, 2004 6:01 PM To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: RE: [AccessD] Your favorite control behavior Correct me if I'm mistaken, but my understanding is that a form has it's own class which you can multi instance in various ways and in which you can create property procedures and do any thing else one can do in a class of your own. It sounds not like you are creating a form class but a separate class to shadow the form class. The downside is needing to know the name of a control in order to be able to operate with it. The advantage of hooking up all default behaviors with a function is that you can pass the procedure a reference to the actual control for which the event is triggered so there is no need for collections or code to run on the form open event. Every copy/paste of a control is automatically hooked up to the standard events without ever writing any code except the single function procedures that all copies of the control trigger. You can override the 'inherited' behaviour by changing the function, writing a specific event procedure or passing in one or more additional optional parameters. Correct me again if I'm mistaken, but this facility to hook up events has been around since Access 1 whereas WithEvents is somewhat newer and more esoteric and less universally understood or used. I suspect that developers coming from a Visual Basic background are less familiar with the advantages of this approach, particularly when they bemoan the lack of control arrays. I suspect this facility is the reason that control arrays were never needed in Access. Like Arthur, it looks to me like you write a great deal more code than the one line each of us uses to hook a contol to a common not in list procedure because you need to write and maintain the framework. Ciao J?rgen Welz Edmonton, Alberta jwelz at hotmail.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com IMPORTANT - PLEASE READ ******************** This email and any files transmitted with it are confidential and may contain information protected by law from disclosure. If you have received this message in error, please notify the sender immediately and delete this email from your system. No warranty is given that this email or files, if attached to this email, are free from computer viruses or other defects. They are provided on the basis the user assumes all responsibility for loss, damage or consequence resulting directly or indirectly from their use, whether caused by the negligence of the sender or not. -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From paul.hartland at fsmail.net Mon Mar 8 07:29:26 2004 From: paul.hartland at fsmail.net (paul.hartland at fsmail.net) Date: Mon, 8 Mar 2004 14:29:26 +0100 (CET) Subject: [AccessD] vbSendMail - Using with Access Message-ID: <26242852.1078752566730.JavaMail.www@wwinf3002> To all, I have the VBSendMail.dll which I normally use to send via via Visual Basic 6.0 applications, however I need to try using it with Access XP now, I have copied all my code over and registered the VBSendMail.dll, but when I compile my code I get the error message : User Defined Type Not Defined And points me to this line: Public poSendmail As vbSendMail.clsSendMail What am I missing has anyone used VBSendMail.dll with Access before, I have told people to try using it as I thought it should work without a hitch. Any help greatly appreciated. Paul Hartland Freeserve AnyTime - HALF PRICE for the first 3 months - Save ?7.50 a month www.freeserve.com/anytime From prodevmg at yahoo.com Mon Mar 8 07:47:47 2004 From: prodevmg at yahoo.com (Lonnie Johnson) Date: Mon, 8 Mar 2004 05:47:47 -0800 (PST) Subject: [AccessD] vbSendMail - Using with Access In-Reply-To: <26242852.1078752566730.JavaMail.www@wwinf3002> Message-ID: <20040308134747.89884.qmail@web20405.mail.yahoo.com> I've used it. It works with the vbSendMail.dll and the mswinsck.ocx. You also have to set the reference to the vbSendMail.dll once it is registred. The reference is called SMTP Send Mail for VB6.0 . This is the module that calls it: Option Compare Database 'Module Level Declaration (WithEvents optional but recommended) Public poSendMail As vbSendMail.clsSendMail Public Function SMTPproc(strMailTo As String, _ Optional strMailSubject As String, _ Optional strMailMsg As String, _ Optional strMailAtt As String, _ Optional strMailCc As String) Set poSendMail = New vbSendMail.clsSendMail poSendMail.SMTPHost = "mail.kvc.org" poSendMail.UseAuthentication = True poSendMail.Username = "emailUserName" poSendMail.Password = "thepassword" 'poSendMail.RecipientDisplayName = "" poSendMail.ReplyToAddress = "username at mail.com" poSendMail.CcRecipient = strMailCc poSendMail.from = "username at mail.com" poSendMail.FromDisplayName = "KVC System Attendant" poSendMail.Recipient = strMailTo poSendMail.Subject = strMailSubject poSendMail.Message = strMailMsg '**************** 'For multiple file attachments, you need to separate each _ file name by a semi colon (;) within the string quote. 'poSendMail.Attachment = "c:\test2.txt;c:\test.txt" poSendMail.Attachment = strMailAtt '**************** poSendMail.Send Set poSendMail = Nothing End Function paul.hartland at fsmail.net wrote: To all, I have the VBSendMail.dll which I normally use to send via via Visual Basic 6.0 applications, however I need to try using it with Access XP now, I have copied all my code over and registered the VBSendMail.dll, but when I compile my code I get the error message : User Defined Type Not Defined And points me to this line: Public poSendmail As vbSendMail.clsSendMail What am I missing has anyone used VBSendMail.dll with Access before, I have told people to try using it as I thought it should work without a hitch. Any help greatly appreciated. Paul Hartland Freeserve AnyTime - HALF PRICE for the first 3 months - Save ?7.50 a month www.freeserve.com/anytime -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com Lonnie Johnson ProDev, Professional Development of MS Access Databases Visit me at ==> http://www.prodev.us --------------------------------- Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Search - Find what you?re looking for faster. From mikedorism at adelphia.net Mon Mar 8 08:01:28 2004 From: mikedorism at adelphia.net (Mike & Doris Manning) Date: Mon, 8 Mar 2004 09:01:28 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Your favorite control behavior In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <000001c40515$da19c2f0$9f194244@hargrove.internal> I'm pretty SQL savvy... I'd be interested in helping you out. Doris Manning Database Administrator Hargrove Inc. www.hargroveinc.com -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of John W. Colby Sent: Monday, March 08, 2004 7:45 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] Your favorite control behavior You are correct however I can't efficiently do that since I don't understand the "working with" SQL Server enough to get anywhere. I have a client who is moving one of my apps to SQL Server. It would be nice to be able to get the framework "SQL Server compliant" whatever that may mean. Unfortunately they are using A2K and will continue to do so for quite some time I'm afraid. And I squeeze every bit of "interface" out of Access using things like queries that reference controls on forms, queries that reference my own custom VB (or for that matter Built-in) functions. Both of these are no-nos when working with SQL Server. So it is very much a combination of making the framework itself "data store independent" as well as MY learning how to replace what I do with what will work with SQL Server (or rather non-jet) data stores. For BOTH, I could use an expert in squeezing the last ounce of "interface" out of non-Jet data stores. John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Haslett, Andrew Sent: Monday, March 08, 2004 1:56 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: [AccessD] Your favorite control behavior >>I'd LOVE to work with an extremely competent SQL Server developer / programmer in >> doing this though since I am going to need this functionality but >> don't know SQL Server that well I don't think its SS as much as interfacing with the (OLEDB) driver used to communicate between Access and SQL. That's where your equivalent recordset behaviours come in. Unless youre talking about wrapping your functionality in Stored Procs using a disconnected framework... -----Original Message----- From: John W. Colby [mailto:jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com] Sent: Monday, 8 March 2004 4:26 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] Your favorite control behavior The answer to ADO is yes... with the exception of the form RecordsetClone property which is by definition DAO. I use ADO exclusively in my current framework except for the recordsetclone stuff. I use recordsetclone to get a handle to the current recordset, as well as the current position of the form (what record is displaying) and use that to "move" the form to display a different record etc. As for unbound, hmmm... it probably could. I use a lot of tricks in my framework such as looking at the field that the control is bound to discover the field name, and now that I know how to do so (using DAO) drilling clear down to the table name and field name. So the answer to that is probably, but you might lose a lot of neat functionality. I'd LOVE to work with an extremely competent SQL Server developer / programmer in doing this though since I am going to need this functionality but don't know SQL Server that well. John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Jim Lawrence (AccessD) Sent: Monday, March 08, 2004 12:09 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] Your favorite control behavior Hi John: I have always liked your framework structure concept. I have not been too interested in pursuing that application deployment as, and do not take this the wrong way, most of my work is with SQL server BEs and, correct me if I am wrong, but at first blush, your framework is designed to manage 'bound' DAO programs. My apps may or may not bind the recordsets and these recordset are used to populate the forms...one step removed. Also, I use ADO almost exclusively. Does your framework handle or can be made to handle ADO and Unbound forms? (but bound (qualified) recordsets) Jim -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of John W. Colby Sent: Sunday, March 07, 2004 6:54 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] Your favorite control behavior Andrew, Yes, I am (slowly) learning .net. It's OO stuff is enough to make me drool. Unfortunately it's database stuff is weak and I am a database developer. Stick around (if you are an Access developer) for the framework discussion. Access' inheritance is non-existant so we use workarounds. If I could just inherit the form class and add my stuff I probably would do that but I can't. And of course controls don't have a class at all. Look in .net and a control is just a class that you can inherit like any other class. NICE!!! Lacking that in Access, classes out in a lib is a poor man's substitute and is what I am up to. John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Haslett, Andrew Sent: Sunday, March 07, 2004 9:41 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: [AccessD] Your favorite control behavior I always thought it was "I couldn't care less". Anyway, very interesting discussion. John, not sure if you've looked into yet, but the .Net languages (and many other OO languages I presume) will provide you with a lot of support for what you are trying to implement with your framework. Inherting your pages / controls from a base class will be ideal to 'inherit' common functionality that it seems you are doing. Custom controls (reusable) alse offer the capabilities you are creating with your framework. I haven't looked in detail at your framework or anything - just been browsing these discussions, but was interested to know if you've looked into .Net yet.., as I think you would find it quite interesting. Cheers, A -----Original Message----- From: John W. Colby [mailto:jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com] Sent: Monday, 8 March 2004 12:19 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] Your favorite control behavior >Correct me if I'm mistaken, but my understanding is that a form has >it's own class which you can multi instance in various ways and in which you can create property procedures and do any thing else one can do in a class of your own. It sounds not like you are creating a form class but a separate class to shadow the form class. Yep, you are correct. >The downside is needing to know the name of a control in order to be >able to operate with it. To program certain functionality (such as passing in the table / field / form to a combo for NotInList) that is correct. >The advantage of hooking up all default behaviors with a function is >that you can pass the procedure a reference to the actual control for which the event is triggered so there is no need for collections or code to run on the form open event. I see no advantage there. My form class scans all of my controls and loads a class for each control. That class hooks up all the functionality for them. I don't have to "make sure" I have cut the control from the right place so that stuff is in the event properties. >Every copy/paste of a control is automatically hooked up to the >standard events without ever writing any code except the single function procedures that all copies of the control trigger. So you have replaced writing a few lines of code in the Form's Open (standard, can be cut and pasted) with dozens of cuts and pastes of controls onto the form? Hmmm..... I can definitely see how this might be better.... >You can override the 'inherited' behavior by changing the function, >writing a specific event procedure or passing in one or more additional optional parameters. Of course you can. So can I using my framework and control classes. >Correct me again if I'm mistaken, but this facility to hook up events >has been around since Access 1 whereas WithEvents is somewhat newer and more esoteric and less universally understood or used. That's like saying "The car has been around a lot less time than the horse so why are we using a car". Sure, Withevents were not around when Access 1.0 came out, and of course this is not applicable to 1.0. More powerful tools are handed to us year after year. To say I am not going to use it because it wasn't available in 1.0 is silly and prevents adapting some very powerful tools. Jurgen, I could care less whether you want to use this stuff. I could care less whether you love hooking functions straight up to the event property. That is an option, and if that is the tool you choose to use, that is your business. I have explained to you why I don't touch that stuff, and why, when I have to take over an app where the previous developer uses that method it pains me greatly. I used to use it, don't get me wrong, it's just that there are tons of disadvantages and only one advantage, your "cut and paste" advantage. That "cut and paste" advantage isn't sufficient in my mind to overcome the disadvantages. In fact that advantage has been neatly replaced by Withevents in classes! You have a SINGLE function that you hook to a property, and you have a bunch of functions that you hook to a bunch of properties. I have a class that I pass a control to. I sink the events in that class, then call various functions of the class from those events. The results are similar, but not identical. I can for instance, turn on/off the behaviors using sysvars. My good friend William Hindman was using some stuff of mine and didn't like some specific things I was doing. I simply "switched it off" for him. Nothing more than "go in the sysvar table and set this sysvar = false. His system didn't use that behavior anymore. Try THAT with your method. A framework is waaaay more than just a function hooked to an event, or even a bunch of functions hooked to a bunch of events. It is a whole system that works together. My control classes talk to the form class. The form class loads SysVars that turn on and off functionality of the framework. I can override a given functionality for the entire application, or just for a given form in the application. The control classes "talk to" the form class and ask whether they should exhibit this behavior? The control class simply doesn't care whether the behavior is turned on / off for the entire application or just this form, all they care about is that they are supposed to exhibit the behavior THIS TIME, RIGHT NOW. Tomorrow the user might want the behavior and I go turn it on using a SysVar. TRY THAT with your "cut and paste" stuff!!! >Like Arthur, it looks to me like you write a great deal more code than >the one line each of us uses to hook a control to a common not in list procedure because you need to write and maintain the framework. You are 100% correct. I do write a whole lot more code than you do. In fact I write almost EXACTLY the same code you do, I just make it a part of a whole system rather than an isolated thing that happens. The "way more code" is the stuff required to tie it in and make it a system. When I design a form I don't "cut and paste" a bunch of controls so that they get hooked up properly. My form class loads control classes that hook everything up for me automatically. Whether I have one or a hundred combos on a form, every one can, if it needs it, have any of the various behaviors that the combo class provides. Why in the world would I go somewhere, "cut a control" and paste it in the form a hundred times? Furthermore I can take ANY form, load a form class in that form's Open and have all of my stuff just automatically applied to all of the controls on that form! All the combos suddenly know how to do combo stuff, all the text boxes suddenly know how to do text box stuff. If a given combo needs NotInList (and MANY don't), then a single line of code passes in the correct table / field / form for that combo to know how to do it. Try THAT with your "cut and paste" stuff! I seem to remember butting heads with you in the past. You were always about "the last ounce of (application) speed", and I simply don't care about that last ounce. I am more about speed of development and ease of maintenance. Your "cut and paste" does allow lightweight forms. I could care less. If that is what this is all about, I will hand you your "speed advantage" and you can walk away the winner. I will take my speed of development and ease of maintenance and I too will walk away a winner. I understand what you are doing, I have done it that way in the distant past. Listen to what I am trying to explain where frameworks are concerned, read it, UNDERSTAND it (ALL OF IT), and then if you still love your "cut and paste" stuff... "may the force be with you". And may I never have to maintain your apps! John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of J?rgen Welz Sent: Sunday, March 07, 2004 6:01 PM To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: RE: [AccessD] Your favorite control behavior Correct me if I'm mistaken, but my understanding is that a form has it's own class which you can multi instance in various ways and in which you can create property procedures and do any thing else one can do in a class of your own. It sounds not like you are creating a form class but a separate class to shadow the form class. The downside is needing to know the name of a control in order to be able to operate with it. The advantage of hooking up all default behaviors with a function is that you can pass the procedure a reference to the actual control for which the event is triggered so there is no need for collections or code to run on the form open event. Every copy/paste of a control is automatically hooked up to the standard events without ever writing any code except the single function procedures that all copies of the control trigger. You can override the 'inherited' behaviour by changing the function, writing a specific event procedure or passing in one or more additional optional parameters. Correct me again if I'm mistaken, but this facility to hook up events has been around since Access 1 whereas WithEvents is somewhat newer and more esoteric and less universally understood or used. I suspect that developers coming from a Visual Basic background are less familiar with the advantages of this approach, particularly when they bemoan the lack of control arrays. I suspect this facility is the reason that control arrays were never needed in Access. Like Arthur, it looks to me like you write a great deal more code than the one line each of us uses to hook a contol to a common not in list procedure because you need to write and maintain the framework. Ciao J?rgen Welz Edmonton, Alberta jwelz at hotmail.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com IMPORTANT - PLEASE READ ******************** This email and any files transmitted with it are confidential and may contain information protected by law from disclosure. If you have received this message in error, please notify the sender immediately and delete this email from your system. No warranty is given that this email or files, if attached to this email, are free from computer viruses or other defects. They are provided on the basis the user assumes all responsibility for loss, damage or consequence resulting directly or indirectly from their use, whether caused by the negligence of the sender or not. -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From mikedorism at adelphia.net Mon Mar 8 08:05:04 2004 From: mikedorism at adelphia.net (Mike & Doris Manning) Date: Mon, 8 Mar 2004 09:05:04 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] vbSendMail - Using with Access In-Reply-To: <26242852.1078752566730.JavaMail.www@wwinf3002> Message-ID: <000101c40516$5b453c60$9f194244@hargrove.internal> In addition to defining your class variable, you also have to set it somewhere. SET poSendmail = NEW vbSendMail.clsSendMail Doris Manning Database Administrator Hargrove Inc. www.hargroveinc.com -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of paul.hartland at fsmail.net Sent: Monday, March 08, 2004 8:29 AM To: accessd Subject: [AccessD] vbSendMail - Using with Access To all, I have the VBSendMail.dll which I normally use to send via via Visual Basic 6.0 applications, however I need to try using it with Access XP now, I have copied all my code over and registered the VBSendMail.dll, but when I compile my code I get the error message : User Defined Type Not Defined And points me to this line: Public poSendmail As vbSendMail.clsSendMail What am I missing has anyone used VBSendMail.dll with Access before, I have told people to try using it as I thought it should work without a hitch. Any help greatly appreciated. Paul Hartland Freeserve AnyTime - HALF PRICE for the first 3 months - Save ?7.50 a month www.freeserve.com/anytime -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From paul.hartland at fsmail.net Mon Mar 8 08:47:18 2004 From: paul.hartland at fsmail.net (paul.hartland at fsmail.net) Date: Mon, 8 Mar 2004 15:47:18 +0100 (CET) Subject: [AccessD] vbSendMail - Using with Access Message-ID: <20391716.1078757238139.JavaMail.www@wwinf3003> To all, This is my code I currently have for the VBSendMail.dll : Public poSendmail As vbSendMail.clsSendMail ' Used for the vbSendMail funtion (email directly to SMTP server). Function SendEmail() ' **** SEND THE EMAIL MESSAGE DIRECTLY THROUGHT THE SMTP SERVER (primary) **** Set poSendmail = New vbSendMail.clsSendMail poSendmail.SMTPHost = "Primary" poSendmail.From = "me at orridge.co.uk" poSendmail.FromDisplayName = "me" poSendmail.Recipient = pStrEmailTo poSendmail.ReplyToAddress = "me at orridge.co.uk" poSendmail.Subject = "Personnel Available For Work" poSendmail.Message = pStrEmailBody poSendmail.Send Set poSendmail = Nothing ' ************************************************************************ End Function I?m still getting User Defined Type Not Defined And points me to this line: Public poSendmail As vbSendMail.clsSendMail I have selected ActiveX Controls from the Tools menu in Access and registered it that way, is that correct ? Paul Hartland Message date : Mar 08 2004, 01:51 PM >From : "Lonnie Johnson" To : "Access Developers discussion and problem solving" Copy to : Subject : Re: [AccessD] vbSendMail - Using with Access I've used it. It works with the vbSendMail.dll and the mswinsck.ocx. You also have to set the reference to the vbSendMail.dll once it is registred. The reference is called SMTP Send Mail for VB6.0 . This is the module that calls it: Option Compare Database 'Module Level Declaration (WithEvents optional but recommended) Public poSendMail As vbSendMail.clsSendMail Public Function SMTPproc(strMailTo As String, _ Optional strMailSubject As String, _ Optional strMailMsg As String, _ Optional strMailAtt As String, _ Optional strMailCc As String) Set poSendMail = New vbSendMail.clsSendMail poSendMail.SMTPHost = "mail.kvc.org" poSendMail.UseAuthentication = True poSendMail.Username = "emailUserName" poSendMail.Password = "thepassword" 'poSendMail.RecipientDisplayName = "" poSendMail.ReplyToAddress = "username at mail.com" poSendMail.CcRecipient = strMailCc poSendMail.from = "username at mail.com" poSendMail.FromDisplayName = "KVC System Attendant" poSendMail.Recipient = strMailTo poSendMail.Subject = strMailSubject poSendMail.Message = strMailMsg '**************** 'For multiple file attachments, you need to separate each _ file name by a semi colon (;) within the string quote. 'poSendMail.Attachment = "c:\test2.txt;c:\test.txt" poSendMail.Attachment = strMailAtt '**************** poSendMail.Send Set poSendMail = Nothing End Function paul.hartland at fsmail.net wrote: To all, I have the VBSendMail.dll which I normally use to send via via Visual Basic 6.0 applications, however I need to try using it with Access XP now, I have copied all my code over and registered the VBSendMail.dll, but when I compile my code I get the error message : User Defined Type Not Defined And points me to this line: Public poSendmail As vbSendMail.clsSendMail What am I missing has anyone used VBSendMail.dll with Access before, I have told people to try using it as I thought it should work without a hitch. Any help greatly appreciated. Paul Hartland Freeserve AnyTime - HALF PRICE for the first 3 months - Save ?7.50 a month www.freeserve.com/anytime -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com Lonnie Johnson ProDev, Professional Development of MS Access Databases Visit me at ==> http://www.prodev.us --------------------------------- Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Search - Find what you?re looking for faster. -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com Freeserve AnyTime - HALF PRICE for the first 3 months - Save ?7.50 a month www.freeserve.com/anytime From mikedorism at adelphia.net Mon Mar 8 09:05:29 2004 From: mikedorism at adelphia.net (Mike & Doris Manning) Date: Mon, 8 Mar 2004 10:05:29 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] vbSendMail - Using with Access In-Reply-To: <20391716.1078757238139.JavaMail.www@wwinf3003> Message-ID: <000001c4051e$cbbe4a60$9f194244@hargrove.internal> Did you set a reference to the DLL? Doris Manning Database Administrator Hargrove Inc. www.hargroveinc.com -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of paul.hartland at fsmail.net Sent: Monday, March 08, 2004 9:47 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: Re: [AccessD] vbSendMail - Using with Access To all, This is my code I currently have for the VBSendMail.dll : Public poSendmail As vbSendMail.clsSendMail ' Used for the vbSendMail funtion (email directly to SMTP server). Function SendEmail() ' **** SEND THE EMAIL MESSAGE DIRECTLY THROUGHT THE SMTP SERVER (primary) **** Set poSendmail = New vbSendMail.clsSendMail poSendmail.SMTPHost = "Primary" poSendmail.From = "me at orridge.co.uk" poSendmail.FromDisplayName = "me" poSendmail.Recipient = pStrEmailTo poSendmail.ReplyToAddress = "me at orridge.co.uk" poSendmail.Subject = "Personnel Available For Work" poSendmail.Message = pStrEmailBody poSendmail.Send Set poSendmail = Nothing ' ************************************************************************ End Function I?m still getting User Defined Type Not Defined And points me to this line: Public poSendmail As vbSendMail.clsSendMail I have selected ActiveX Controls from the Tools menu in Access and registered it that way, is that correct ? Paul Hartland Message date : Mar 08 2004, 01:51 PM >From : "Lonnie Johnson" To : "Access Developers discussion and problem solving" Copy to : Subject : Re: [AccessD] vbSendMail - Using with Access I've used it. It works with the vbSendMail.dll and the mswinsck.ocx. You also have to set the reference to the vbSendMail.dll once it is registred. The reference is called SMTP Send Mail for VB6.0 . This is the module that calls it: Option Compare Database 'Module Level Declaration (WithEvents optional but recommended) Public poSendMail As vbSendMail.clsSendMail Public Function SMTPproc(strMailTo As String, _ Optional strMailSubject As String, _ Optional strMailMsg As String, _ Optional strMailAtt As String, _ Optional strMailCc As String) Set poSendMail = New vbSendMail.clsSendMail poSendMail.SMTPHost = "mail.kvc.org" poSendMail.UseAuthentication = True poSendMail.Username = "emailUserName" poSendMail.Password = "thepassword" 'poSendMail.RecipientDisplayName = "" poSendMail.ReplyToAddress = "username at mail.com" poSendMail.CcRecipient = strMailCc poSendMail.from = "username at mail.com" poSendMail.FromDisplayName = "KVC System Attendant" poSendMail.Recipient = strMailTo poSendMail.Subject = strMailSubject poSendMail.Message = strMailMsg '**************** 'For multiple file attachments, you need to separate each _ file name by a semi colon (;) within the string quote. 'poSendMail.Attachment = "c:\test2.txt;c:\test.txt" poSendMail.Attachment = strMailAtt '**************** poSendMail.Send Set poSendMail = Nothing End Function paul.hartland at fsmail.net wrote: To all, I have the VBSendMail.dll which I normally use to send via via Visual Basic 6.0 applications, however I need to try using it with Access XP now, I have copied all my code over and registered the VBSendMail.dll, but when I compile my code I get the error message : User Defined Type Not Defined And points me to this line: Public poSendmail As vbSendMail.clsSendMail What am I missing has anyone used VBSendMail.dll with Access before, I have told people to try using it as I thought it should work without a hitch. Any help greatly appreciated. Paul Hartland Freeserve AnyTime - HALF PRICE for the first 3 months - Save ?7.50 a month www.freeserve.com/anytime -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com Lonnie Johnson ProDev, Professional Development of MS Access Databases Visit me at ==> http://www.prodev.us --------------------------------- Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Search - Find what you?re looking for faster. -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com Freeserve AnyTime - HALF PRICE for the first 3 months - Save ?7.50 a month www.freeserve.com/anytime -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From Bryan_Carbonnell at cbc.ca Mon Mar 8 09:02:34 2004 From: Bryan_Carbonnell at cbc.ca (Bryan Carbonnell) Date: Mon, 08 Mar 2004 10:02:34 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] report graph to power point Message-ID: Save it to HTML. THe graph should be saved as an image. Bryan Carbonnell bryan_carbonnell at cbc.ca >>> joeget at vgernet.net 06-Mar-04 6:31:03 AM >>> is there a way to export a graph from a report to a power point slide? John From paul.hartland at fsmail.net Mon Mar 8 09:10:58 2004 From: paul.hartland at fsmail.net (paul.hartland at fsmail.net) Date: Mon, 8 Mar 2004 16:10:58 +0100 (CET) Subject: [AccessD] vbSendMail - Using with Access Message-ID: <21896052.1078758658157.JavaMail.www@wwinf3003> no, god I would forget my head if it was loose today. Good old Mondays. Thanks to all for all your help. Paul Message date : Mar 08 2004, 03:06 PM >From : "Mike & Doris Manning" To : "'Access Developers discussion and problem solving'" Copy to : Subject : RE: Re: [AccessD] vbSendMail - Using with Access Did you set a reference to the DLL? Doris Manning Database Administrator Hargrove Inc. www.hargroveinc.com -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of paul.hartland at fsmail.net Sent: Monday, March 08, 2004 9:47 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: Re: [AccessD] vbSendMail - Using with Access To all, This is my code I currently have for the VBSendMail.dll : Public poSendmail As vbSendMail.clsSendMail ' Used for the vbSendMail funtion (email directly to SMTP server). Function SendEmail() ' **** SEND THE EMAIL MESSAGE DIRECTLY THROUGHT THE SMTP SERVER (primary) **** Set poSendmail = New vbSendMail.clsSendMail poSendmail.SMTPHost = "Primary" poSendmail.From = "me at orridge.co.uk" poSendmail.FromDisplayName = "me" poSendmail.Recipient = pStrEmailTo poSendmail.ReplyToAddress = "me at orridge.co.uk" poSendmail.Subject = "Personnel Available For Work" poSendmail.Message = pStrEmailBody poSendmail.Send Set poSendmail = Nothing ' ************************************************************************ End Function I?m still getting User Defined Type Not Defined And points me to this line: Public poSendmail As vbSendMail.clsSendMail I have selected ActiveX Controls from the Tools menu in Access and registered it that way, is that correct ? Paul Hartland Message date : Mar 08 2004, 01:51 PM >From : "Lonnie Johnson" To : "Access Developers discussion and problem solving" Copy to : Subject : Re: [AccessD] vbSendMail - Using with Access I've used it. It works with the vbSendMail.dll and the mswinsck.ocx. You also have to set the reference to the vbSendMail.dll once it is registred. The reference is called SMTP Send Mail for VB6.0 . This is the module that calls it: Option Compare Database 'Module Level Declaration (WithEvents optional but recommended) Public poSendMail As vbSendMail.clsSendMail Public Function SMTPproc(strMailTo As String, _ Optional strMailSubject As String, _ Optional strMailMsg As String, _ Optional strMailAtt As String, _ Optional strMailCc As String) Set poSendMail = New vbSendMail.clsSendMail poSendMail.SMTPHost = "mail.kvc.org" poSendMail.UseAuthentication = True poSendMail.Username = "emailUserName" poSendMail.Password = "thepassword" 'poSendMail.RecipientDisplayName = "" poSendMail.ReplyToAddress = "username at mail.com" poSendMail.CcRecipient = strMailCc poSendMail.from = "username at mail.com" poSendMail.FromDisplayName = "KVC System Attendant" poSendMail.Recipient = strMailTo poSendMail.Subject = strMailSubject poSendMail.Message = strMailMsg '**************** 'For multiple file attachments, you need to separate each _ file name by a semi colon (;) within the string quote. 'poSendMail.Attachment = "c:\test2.txt;c:\test.txt" poSendMail.Attachment = strMailAtt '**************** poSendMail.Send Set poSendMail = Nothing End Function paul.hartland at fsmail.net wrote: To all, I have the VBSendMail.dll which I normally use to send via via Visual Basic 6.0 applications, however I need to try using it with Access XP now, I have copied all my code over and registered the VBSendMail.dll, but when I compile my code I get the error message : User Defined Type Not Defined And points me to this line: Public poSendmail As vbSendMail.clsSendMail What am I missing has anyone used VBSendMail.dll with Access before, I have told people to try using it as I thought it should work without a hitch. Any help greatly appreciated. Paul Hartland Freeserve AnyTime - HALF PRICE for the first 3 months - Save ?7.50 a month www.freeserve.com/anytime -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com Lonnie Johnson ProDev, Professional Development of MS Access Databases Visit me at ==> http://www.prodev.us --------------------------------- Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Search - Find what you?re looking for faster. -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com Freeserve AnyTime - HALF PRICE for the first 3 months - Save ?7.50 a month www.freeserve.com/anytime -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com Freeserve AnyTime - HALF PRICE for the first 3 months - Save ?7.50 a month www.freeserve.com/anytime From jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com Mon Mar 8 09:29:06 2004 From: jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com (John W. Colby) Date: Mon, 8 Mar 2004 10:29:06 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Your favorite control behavior In-Reply-To: <000001c40515$da19c2f0$9f194244@hargrove.internal> Message-ID: Are you a proficient programmer? If so I'd love to work with you, just follow the Framework discussion as it unfolds. I have just about decided to rebuild my own framework for the 3rd time (making it a 3rd generation design ;-) and will be doing so via this discussion. John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Mike & Doris Manning Sent: Monday, March 08, 2004 9:01 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: [AccessD] Your favorite control behavior I'm pretty SQL savvy... I'd be interested in helping you out. Doris Manning Database Administrator Hargrove Inc. www.hargroveinc.com -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of John W. Colby Sent: Monday, March 08, 2004 7:45 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] Your favorite control behavior You are correct however I can't efficiently do that since I don't understand the "working with" SQL Server enough to get anywhere. I have a client who is moving one of my apps to SQL Server. It would be nice to be able to get the framework "SQL Server compliant" whatever that may mean. Unfortunately they are using A2K and will continue to do so for quite some time I'm afraid. And I squeeze every bit of "interface" out of Access using things like queries that reference controls on forms, queries that reference my own custom VB (or for that matter Built-in) functions. Both of these are no-nos when working with SQL Server. So it is very much a combination of making the framework itself "data store independent" as well as MY learning how to replace what I do with what will work with SQL Server (or rather non-jet) data stores. For BOTH, I could use an expert in squeezing the last ounce of "interface" out of non-Jet data stores. John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Haslett, Andrew Sent: Monday, March 08, 2004 1:56 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: [AccessD] Your favorite control behavior >>I'd LOVE to work with an extremely competent SQL Server developer / programmer in >> doing this though since I am going to need this functionality but >> don't know SQL Server that well I don't think its SS as much as interfacing with the (OLEDB) driver used to communicate between Access and SQL. That's where your equivalent recordset behaviours come in. Unless youre talking about wrapping your functionality in Stored Procs using a disconnected framework... -----Original Message----- From: John W. Colby [mailto:jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com] Sent: Monday, 8 March 2004 4:26 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] Your favorite control behavior The answer to ADO is yes... with the exception of the form RecordsetClone property which is by definition DAO. I use ADO exclusively in my current framework except for the recordsetclone stuff. I use recordsetclone to get a handle to the current recordset, as well as the current position of the form (what record is displaying) and use that to "move" the form to display a different record etc. As for unbound, hmmm... it probably could. I use a lot of tricks in my framework such as looking at the field that the control is bound to discover the field name, and now that I know how to do so (using DAO) drilling clear down to the table name and field name. So the answer to that is probably, but you might lose a lot of neat functionality. I'd LOVE to work with an extremely competent SQL Server developer / programmer in doing this though since I am going to need this functionality but don't know SQL Server that well. John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Jim Lawrence (AccessD) Sent: Monday, March 08, 2004 12:09 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] Your favorite control behavior Hi John: I have always liked your framework structure concept. I have not been too interested in pursuing that application deployment as, and do not take this the wrong way, most of my work is with SQL server BEs and, correct me if I am wrong, but at first blush, your framework is designed to manage 'bound' DAO programs. My apps may or may not bind the recordsets and these recordset are used to populate the forms...one step removed. Also, I use ADO almost exclusively. Does your framework handle or can be made to handle ADO and Unbound forms? (but bound (qualified) recordsets) Jim -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of John W. Colby Sent: Sunday, March 07, 2004 6:54 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] Your favorite control behavior Andrew, Yes, I am (slowly) learning .net. It's OO stuff is enough to make me drool. Unfortunately it's database stuff is weak and I am a database developer. Stick around (if you are an Access developer) for the framework discussion. Access' inheritance is non-existant so we use workarounds. If I could just inherit the form class and add my stuff I probably would do that but I can't. And of course controls don't have a class at all. Look in .net and a control is just a class that you can inherit like any other class. NICE!!! Lacking that in Access, classes out in a lib is a poor man's substitute and is what I am up to. John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Haslett, Andrew Sent: Sunday, March 07, 2004 9:41 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: [AccessD] Your favorite control behavior I always thought it was "I couldn't care less". Anyway, very interesting discussion. John, not sure if you've looked into yet, but the .Net languages (and many other OO languages I presume) will provide you with a lot of support for what you are trying to implement with your framework. Inherting your pages / controls from a base class will be ideal to 'inherit' common functionality that it seems you are doing. Custom controls (reusable) alse offer the capabilities you are creating with your framework. I haven't looked in detail at your framework or anything - just been browsing these discussions, but was interested to know if you've looked into .Net yet.., as I think you would find it quite interesting. Cheers, A -----Original Message----- From: John W. Colby [mailto:jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com] Sent: Monday, 8 March 2004 12:19 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] Your favorite control behavior >Correct me if I'm mistaken, but my understanding is that a form has >it's own class which you can multi instance in various ways and in which you can create property procedures and do any thing else one can do in a class of your own. It sounds not like you are creating a form class but a separate class to shadow the form class. Yep, you are correct. >The downside is needing to know the name of a control in order to be >able to operate with it. To program certain functionality (such as passing in the table / field / form to a combo for NotInList) that is correct. >The advantage of hooking up all default behaviors with a function is >that you can pass the procedure a reference to the actual control for which the event is triggered so there is no need for collections or code to run on the form open event. I see no advantage there. My form class scans all of my controls and loads a class for each control. That class hooks up all the functionality for them. I don't have to "make sure" I have cut the control from the right place so that stuff is in the event properties. >Every copy/paste of a control is automatically hooked up to the >standard events without ever writing any code except the single function procedures that all copies of the control trigger. So you have replaced writing a few lines of code in the Form's Open (standard, can be cut and pasted) with dozens of cuts and pastes of controls onto the form? Hmmm..... I can definitely see how this might be better.... >You can override the 'inherited' behavior by changing the function, >writing a specific event procedure or passing in one or more additional optional parameters. Of course you can. So can I using my framework and control classes. >Correct me again if I'm mistaken, but this facility to hook up events >has been around since Access 1 whereas WithEvents is somewhat newer and more esoteric and less universally understood or used. That's like saying "The car has been around a lot less time than the horse so why are we using a car". Sure, Withevents were not around when Access 1.0 came out, and of course this is not applicable to 1.0. More powerful tools are handed to us year after year. To say I am not going to use it because it wasn't available in 1.0 is silly and prevents adapting some very powerful tools. Jurgen, I could care less whether you want to use this stuff. I could care less whether you love hooking functions straight up to the event property. That is an option, and if that is the tool you choose to use, that is your business. I have explained to you why I don't touch that stuff, and why, when I have to take over an app where the previous developer uses that method it pains me greatly. I used to use it, don't get me wrong, it's just that there are tons of disadvantages and only one advantage, your "cut and paste" advantage. That "cut and paste" advantage isn't sufficient in my mind to overcome the disadvantages. In fact that advantage has been neatly replaced by Withevents in classes! You have a SINGLE function that you hook to a property, and you have a bunch of functions that you hook to a bunch of properties. I have a class that I pass a control to. I sink the events in that class, then call various functions of the class from those events. The results are similar, but not identical. I can for instance, turn on/off the behaviors using sysvars. My good friend William Hindman was using some stuff of mine and didn't like some specific things I was doing. I simply "switched it off" for him. Nothing more than "go in the sysvar table and set this sysvar = false. His system didn't use that behavior anymore. Try THAT with your method. A framework is waaaay more than just a function hooked to an event, or even a bunch of functions hooked to a bunch of events. It is a whole system that works together. My control classes talk to the form class. The form class loads SysVars that turn on and off functionality of the framework. I can override a given functionality for the entire application, or just for a given form in the application. The control classes "talk to" the form class and ask whether they should exhibit this behavior? The control class simply doesn't care whether the behavior is turned on / off for the entire application or just this form, all they care about is that they are supposed to exhibit the behavior THIS TIME, RIGHT NOW. Tomorrow the user might want the behavior and I go turn it on using a SysVar. TRY THAT with your "cut and paste" stuff!!! >Like Arthur, it looks to me like you write a great deal more code than >the one line each of us uses to hook a control to a common not in list procedure because you need to write and maintain the framework. You are 100% correct. I do write a whole lot more code than you do. In fact I write almost EXACTLY the same code you do, I just make it a part of a whole system rather than an isolated thing that happens. The "way more code" is the stuff required to tie it in and make it a system. When I design a form I don't "cut and paste" a bunch of controls so that they get hooked up properly. My form class loads control classes that hook everything up for me automatically. Whether I have one or a hundred combos on a form, every one can, if it needs it, have any of the various behaviors that the combo class provides. Why in the world would I go somewhere, "cut a control" and paste it in the form a hundred times? Furthermore I can take ANY form, load a form class in that form's Open and have all of my stuff just automatically applied to all of the controls on that form! All the combos suddenly know how to do combo stuff, all the text boxes suddenly know how to do text box stuff. If a given combo needs NotInList (and MANY don't), then a single line of code passes in the correct table / field / form for that combo to know how to do it. Try THAT with your "cut and paste" stuff! I seem to remember butting heads with you in the past. You were always about "the last ounce of (application) speed", and I simply don't care about that last ounce. I am more about speed of development and ease of maintenance. Your "cut and paste" does allow lightweight forms. I could care less. If that is what this is all about, I will hand you your "speed advantage" and you can walk away the winner. I will take my speed of development and ease of maintenance and I too will walk away a winner. I understand what you are doing, I have done it that way in the distant past. Listen to what I am trying to explain where frameworks are concerned, read it, UNDERSTAND it (ALL OF IT), and then if you still love your "cut and paste" stuff... "may the force be with you". And may I never have to maintain your apps! John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of J?rgen Welz Sent: Sunday, March 07, 2004 6:01 PM To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: RE: [AccessD] Your favorite control behavior Correct me if I'm mistaken, but my understanding is that a form has it's own class which you can multi instance in various ways and in which you can create property procedures and do any thing else one can do in a class of your own. It sounds not like you are creating a form class but a separate class to shadow the form class. The downside is needing to know the name of a control in order to be able to operate with it. The advantage of hooking up all default behaviors with a function is that you can pass the procedure a reference to the actual control for which the event is triggered so there is no need for collections or code to run on the form open event. Every copy/paste of a control is automatically hooked up to the standard events without ever writing any code except the single function procedures that all copies of the control trigger. You can override the 'inherited' behaviour by changing the function, writing a specific event procedure or passing in one or more additional optional parameters. Correct me again if I'm mistaken, but this facility to hook up events has been around since Access 1 whereas WithEvents is somewhat newer and more esoteric and less universally understood or used. I suspect that developers coming from a Visual Basic background are less familiar with the advantages of this approach, particularly when they bemoan the lack of control arrays. I suspect this facility is the reason that control arrays were never needed in Access. Like Arthur, it looks to me like you write a great deal more code than the one line each of us uses to hook a contol to a common not in list procedure because you need to write and maintain the framework. Ciao J?rgen Welz Edmonton, Alberta jwelz at hotmail.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com IMPORTANT - PLEASE READ ******************** This email and any files transmitted with it are confidential and may contain information protected by law from disclosure. If you have received this message in error, please notify the sender immediately and delete this email from your system. 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They are provided on the basis the user assumes all responsibility for loss, damage or consequence resulting directly or indirectly from their use, whether caused by the negligence of the sender or not. -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From serbach at new.rr.com Mon Mar 8 09:43:31 2004 From: serbach at new.rr.com (Steven W. Erbach) Date: Mon, 8 Mar 2004 09:43:31 -0600 Subject: [AccessD] Updateable query Message-ID: <20040308094331.702363473.serbach@new.rr.com> Dear Group, I've inherited an application that I'm working (slowly) into better shape. One of the things that has happened to some of the customers for this application (all domestic violence shelters) is that there are some orphaned records in a service log (tblServiceLog); that is a table that shows which service, how much of that service (in hours), when it occured, and who received it; like this: FieldName FieldType =========== ========== LogID AutoNumber ClientID LongInt ServiceDate Date/Time ServiceCode Text Hours Number The "orphans" are those tblServiceLog records that have been entered with no ClientID. Some of the records were re-entered upon the discovery that a previously entered log entry failed to show up on-screen; some were not. I created an audit report that showed all the fields in tblServiceLog that were missing the ClientID. The customer has tracked down which Clients should have received those services and is ready to enter the ClientIDs manually (with my help). What I would like to create is a query that not only shows the tblServiceLog records that are missing ClientIDs, but also those records that were entered a second time so that the ClientIDs "took." I figure that I'd look for records that matched date, service code, and hours. I first did a MakeTable query that lists ServiceDate, ServiceCode, and Hours just for those "orphaned" records. Then I made a query like this: SELECT T.LogID, T.ClientID, T.ServiceDate, T.ServiceCode, T.Hours FROM tblServiceLog AS T INNER JOIN _tmpTblOrphans AS O ON (T.Hours = O.Hours) AND (T.ServiceCode = O.ServiceCode) AND (T.ServiceDate = O.ServiceDate); This gives me the orphans as well as all records with ClientIDs that match date, service, and hours on the days that the orphans received services. Of course, the recordset returned by this query is NOT updateable. I'm drawing a blank as to how I could work this so that the recordset IS updateable. Might this be something I could do with a filter? Regards, Steve Erbach Scientific Marketing Neenah, WI 920-969-0504 "Don't light a match 'til ya know which end of the dog is barkin'." - Dave Barry From serbach at new.rr.com Mon Mar 8 09:53:56 2004 From: serbach at new.rr.com (Steven W. Erbach) Date: Mon, 8 Mar 2004 09:53:56 -0600 Subject: [AccessD] Updateable query Message-ID: <20040308095356.1488263659.serbach@new.rr.com> Dear Group, I may have answered my own question. I did another MakeTable query that just stored the LogIDs generated by the query I posted. Then I made this query which DID produce an updateable recordset: SELECT T.LogID, T.ClientID, T.ServiceDate, T.ServiceCode, T.Hours FROM tblServiceLog AS T WHERE (((T.LogID) In (SELECT [_OrphansIDs].LogID FROM _OrphansIDs;))); Now, if I can just do this without making any temporary tables... Sincerely, Steve Erbach Scientific Marketing Neenah, WI 920-969-0504 From prodevmg at yahoo.com Mon Mar 8 09:51:54 2004 From: prodevmg at yahoo.com (Lonnie Johnson) Date: Mon, 8 Mar 2004 07:51:54 -0800 (PST) Subject: [AccessD] Updateable query In-Reply-To: <20040308094331.702363473.serbach@new.rr.com> Message-ID: <20040308155154.48864.qmail@web20420.mail.yahoo.com> One thing you could try instead of a join is a sub query. In the criteria of the ClientID you could say... Not In (Select ClientID FROM tblOrphans) Hope this helps! "Steven W. Erbach" wrote: Dear Group, I've inherited an application that I'm working (slowly) into better shape. One of the things that has happened to some of the customers for this application (all domestic violence shelters) is that there are some orphaned records in a service log (tblServiceLog); that is a table that shows which service, how much of that service (in hours), when it occured, and who received it; like this: FieldName FieldType =========== ========== LogID AutoNumber ClientID LongInt ServiceDate Date/Time ServiceCode Text Hours Number The "orphans" are those tblServiceLog records that have been entered with no ClientID. Some of the records were re-entered upon the discovery that a previously entered log entry failed to show up on-screen; some were not. I created an audit report that showed all the fields in tblServiceLog that were missing the ClientID. The customer has tracked down which Clients should have received those services and is ready to enter the ClientIDs manually (with my help). What I would like to create is a query that not only shows the tblServiceLog records that are missing ClientIDs, but also those records that were entered a second time so that the ClientIDs "took." I figure that I'd look for records that matched date, service code, and hours. I first did a MakeTable query that lists ServiceDate, ServiceCode, and Hours just for those "orphaned" records. Then I made a query like this: SELECT T.LogID, T.ClientID, T.ServiceDate, T.ServiceCode, T.Hours FROM tblServiceLog AS T INNER JOIN _tmpTblOrphans AS O ON (T.Hours = O.Hours) AND (T.ServiceCode = O.ServiceCode) AND (T.ServiceDate = O.ServiceDate); This gives me the orphans as well as all records with ClientIDs that match date, service, and hours on the days that the orphans received services. Of course, the recordset returned by this query is NOT updateable. I'm drawing a blank as to how I could work this so that the recordset IS updateable. Might this be something I could do with a filter? Regards, Steve Erbach Scientific Marketing Neenah, WI 920-969-0504 "Don't light a match 'til ya know which end of the dog is barkin'." - Dave Barry -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com Lonnie Johnson ProDev, Professional Development of MS Access Databases Visit me at ==> http://www.prodev.us --------------------------------- Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Search - Find what you?re looking for faster. From serbach at new.rr.com Mon Mar 8 10:09:37 2004 From: serbach at new.rr.com (Steven W. Erbach) Date: Mon, 8 Mar 2004 10:09:37 -0600 Subject: [AccessD] Updateable query Message-ID: <20040308100937.832093945.serbach@new.rr.com> Thanks, Lonnie. That's just the approach that got through my thick skull...after clicking the 'Send' button. Regards, Steve Erbach Scientific Marketing Neenah, WI 920-969-0504 "I think that the send button actually turns brains on." -- Bryan Carbonnell From cfoust at infostatsystems.com Mon Mar 8 10:54:39 2004 From: cfoust at infostatsystems.com (Charlotte Foust) Date: Mon, 8 Mar 2004 08:54:39 -0800 Subject: [AccessD] Combo-box control tip Message-ID: Isn't it fun when they do that? Control tips do work on comboboxes, but Access sometimes steps on its own feet. Is there a box on your form with the combobox in it? If so, send the box to the back and just to be cautious, bring the combobox to the front. That's probably the most common reason for tool tips to not show up on a form, because another control layer is on top of them. Charlotte Foust -----Original Message----- From: Arthur Fuller [mailto:artful at rogers.com] Sent: Sunday, March 07, 2004 3:49 PM To: AccessD Subject: [AccessD] Combo-box control tip I added some control-tip text to several combo-boxes, but the text doesn't appear no matter how long I linger there the controltip does not appear. I've copied the text into the status bar so I can fake it for now, but I'd much rather have the control tip working. What am I doing wrong? I assume that since control tip is supported in the properties window that it actually works. Na?ve? Arthur -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From gustav at cactus.dk Mon Mar 8 11:24:23 2004 From: gustav at cactus.dk (Gustav Brock) Date: Mon, 8 Mar 2004 18:24:23 +0100 Subject: [AccessD] Accounting: digits only for account numbers? Message-ID: <4933483336.20040308182423@cactus.dk> Hi all Some of you, I know, are quite experienced in accounting and/or accounting systems. Have any you encountered setups (for serious use) where literals were not only allowed - they are quite often - but actually used in building the chart of accounts for the general ledger? I'm not thinking of setups where simple formatting of numbers could do it, like: U0900-34.00 U7301-22.01 U8398-12.00 but something like this: KH43TBB KL43TBS M3799JH Also, I'm not thinking of old legacy systems nor customer or part numbers as you can meet everything possible here. Slightly OT, I know, but where else to ask? /gustav From cfoust at infostatsystems.com Mon Mar 8 11:39:28 2004 From: cfoust at infostatsystems.com (Charlotte Foust) Date: Mon, 8 Mar 2004 09:39:28 -0800 Subject: [AccessD] Accounting: digits only for account numbers? Message-ID: I've never seen it, but then I've been out of active accounting for years and it may be something new. If I'm designing a system, they can use anything they want because I'm not going to use that as the primary key anyhow. Charlotte Foust -----Original Message----- From: Gustav Brock [mailto:gustav at cactus.dk] Sent: Monday, March 08, 2004 9:24 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: [AccessD] Accounting: digits only for account numbers? Hi all Some of you, I know, are quite experienced in accounting and/or accounting systems. Have any you encountered setups (for serious use) where literals were not only allowed - they are quite often - but actually used in building the chart of accounts for the general ledger? I'm not thinking of setups where simple formatting of numbers could do it, like: U0900-34.00 U7301-22.01 U8398-12.00 but something like this: KH43TBB KL43TBS M3799JH Also, I'm not thinking of old legacy systems nor customer or part numbers as you can meet everything possible here. Slightly OT, I know, but where else to ask? /gustav -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From gustav at cactus.dk Mon Mar 8 12:12:44 2004 From: gustav at cactus.dk (Gustav Brock) Date: Mon, 8 Mar 2004 19:12:44 +0100 Subject: [AccessD] Accounting: digits only for account numbers? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <10736384828.20040308191244@cactus.dk> Hi Charlotte Thanks, no it wouldn't be a "new thing". I should stress that I'm not talking about primary keys but, of course, of unique numbers with or without literals. /gustav > I've never seen it, but then I've been out of active accounting for > years and it may be something new. If I'm designing a system, they can > use anything they want because I'm not going to use that as the primary > key anyhow. > Charlotte Foust > -----Original Message----- > From: Gustav Brock [mailto:gustav at cactus.dk] > Sent: Monday, March 08, 2004 9:24 AM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: [AccessD] Accounting: digits only for account numbers? > Hi all > Some of you, I know, are quite experienced in accounting and/or > accounting systems. > Have any you encountered setups (for serious use) where literals were > not only allowed - they are quite often - but actually used in building > the chart of accounts for the general ledger? > I'm not thinking of setups where simple formatting of numbers could do > it, like: > U0900-34.00 > U7301-22.01 > U8398-12.00 > but something like this: > KH43TBB > KL43TBS > M3799JH > Also, I'm not thinking of old legacy systems nor customer or part > numbers as you can meet everything possible here. > Slightly OT, I know, but where else to ask? > /gustav From KIsmert at TexasSystems.com Mon Mar 8 12:25:53 2004 From: KIsmert at TexasSystems.com (Ken Ismert) Date: Mon, 8 Mar 2004 12:25:53 -0600 Subject: [AccessD] Offtopic: Word, macros and applying styles to paragraphs In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <001101c4053a$cad84670$2a3ca8c0@TEXASSYSTEMS.COM> The built-in method (W2K and later): * Select Format, Style * Select a style and click Modify * In the Modify Style dialog, click Shortcut Key * You can then assign a key combo to your style The only tricky part is the Save Changes In dropdown (bottom right). It is best to save your shortcuts with the document template, rather than overloading Normal.dot -Ken -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of John W. Colby Sent: Saturday, March 06, 2004 8:24 AM To: DBA - Tech; AccessD Subject: [AccessD] Offtopic: Word, macros and applying styles to paragraphs I am working on formatting existing word documents to use styles from a document template. I can select text and then click on the style, select the style and apply that style to the selected text. I'm wondering if Word has a "macro" system that I could use to apply hotkeys to macro styles so that I can just tap hotkeys to apply the styles to the paragraphs selected? John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com Mon Mar 8 12:43:55 2004 From: jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com (John W. Colby) Date: Mon, 8 Mar 2004 13:43:55 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Framework Discussion - Who's following this In-Reply-To: Message-ID: My objective with this discussion is to explain the concepts and implementation of frameworks in sufficient detail that anyone willing to learn can pick up at least a few new ideas, understand classes and how they can solve problems, understand withevents and how using them allows us to encapsulate entire subsystems into an object, and understand Frameworks and how and why they might be useful. I know that this is a rather large objective, and that some of these subjects seem rather deep. I am attempting to keep the details clean and uncluttered in the beginning so that you can not get bogged down in stuff not relevant to the specific subject of the specific post. In order to accomplish this objective I need to get a feeling for who is following this discussion and at what level. Would everyone interested in this thread please answer the following questions: 1) Interest Level a) I already pretty much do what you are discussing, just wanted to see how you do it. b) I am extremely interested in this concept and subject, would probably use it if I can figure it out. c) I am interested and might start using some of this stuff. d) Moderately interested, probably too much work for what I see getting out of it e) Marginally interested, probably never use any of it. 2) Understanding a) I understand completely what is going on b) I mostly follow what is happening but have a couple of things I don't really understand c) I am trying my best but can't really follow a lot of it d) Hopelessly lost, want to understand but need you to slow down a bit. 3) Participation a) I am scanning the posts lightly to just get the basics b) I am reading it and attempting to follow the examples. c) I am reading the posts and working through the included code, and have downloaded the example database d) I am reading and have downloaded the database, and have worked through the examples in the database to see how this stuff works. I truly appreciate your participation. Thanks, John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com From jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com Mon Mar 8 12:43:55 2004 From: jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com (John W. Colby) Date: Mon, 8 Mar 2004 13:43:55 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Offtopic: Word, macros and applying styles to paragraphs In-Reply-To: <001101c4053a$cad84670$2a3ca8c0@TEXASSYSTEMS.COM> Message-ID: COOL! Thanks. John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Ken Ismert Sent: Monday, March 08, 2004 1:26 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: [AccessD] Offtopic: Word, macros and applying styles to paragraphs The built-in method (W2K and later): * Select Format, Style * Select a style and click Modify * In the Modify Style dialog, click Shortcut Key * You can then assign a key combo to your style The only tricky part is the Save Changes In dropdown (bottom right). It is best to save your shortcuts with the document template, rather than overloading Normal.dot -Ken -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of John W. Colby Sent: Saturday, March 06, 2004 8:24 AM To: DBA - Tech; AccessD Subject: [AccessD] Offtopic: Word, macros and applying styles to paragraphs I am working on formatting existing word documents to use styles from a document template. I can select text and then click on the style, select the style and apply that style to the selected text. I'm wondering if Word has a "macro" system that I could use to apply hotkeys to macro styles so that I can just tap hotkeys to apply the styles to the paragraphs selected? John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From adtp at touchtelindia.net Mon Mar 8 13:23:41 2004 From: adtp at touchtelindia.net (A.D.Tejpal) Date: Tue, 9 Mar 2004 00:53:41 +0530 Subject: [AccessD] How to Deal with Time Durations References: Message-ID: <021901c40543$00ef0a70$5d1865cb@winxp> Bryan, One option could be to store the date as a date field and time as string. Relevant query can include a calculated field depicting the time (in seconds) already lapsed or yet to lapse as compared to the present time (as returned by the Timer function). This affords remarkable flexibility in using the data the way any particular situation might demand. If it could be of any help, you could take a look at my sample db named AppointmentsAlert at Rogers Access Library (other developers section). It features an appointments planner. When put into standby mode, the utility goes into minimized state and keeps scanning the status of scheduled appointments at specified time intervals. As & when an event becomes due, an audio alarm is sounded accompanied by a pop-up form displaying the current status of various appointments. In the underlying queries, calculated field named MinutesTillSlot should be of interest to you. Related function named Fn_MinutesTillSlot could be modified to return seconds instead of minutes. Regards, A.D.Tejpal -------------- ----- Original Message ----- From: Bryan Carbonnell To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Sent: Thursday, March 04, 2004 20:14 Subject: [AccessD] How to Deal with Time Durations In a new app that I am creating, of which you will probably hear ALL about it over the next few weeks :), I have to keep track of event durations. Right now I have a field for the start time, and one for the duration. Both are Date/Time fields. The durations for the event can last from 1 second all the way up to many hours, and possibly even days. Should I actually be storing the start and end time and calculating the duration? The duration can be entered as either the actual duration or the actual end time. If you have done something like this, how have you handled it? Thanks, Bryan Carbonnell bryan_carbonnell at cbc.ca -- From cfoust at infostatsystems.com Mon Mar 8 13:25:04 2004 From: cfoust at infostatsystems.com (Charlotte Foust) Date: Mon, 8 Mar 2004 11:25:04 -0800 Subject: [AccessD] Accounting: digits only for account numbers? Message-ID: Yes, I understand that. I've just never seen that particular kind of account numbering. If you use a surrogate primary key, it shouldn't make any difference what literals they use, although you may need a sortkey field to get them in the appropriate order in your chart of accounts. Charlotte Foust -----Original Message----- From: Gustav Brock [mailto:gustav at cactus.dk] Sent: Monday, March 08, 2004 10:13 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Accounting: digits only for account numbers? Hi Charlotte Thanks, no it wouldn't be a "new thing". I should stress that I'm not talking about primary keys but, of course, of unique numbers with or without literals. /gustav > I've never seen it, but then I've been out of active accounting for > years and it may be something new. If I'm designing a system, they > can use anything they want because I'm not going to use that as the > primary key anyhow. > Charlotte Foust > -----Original Message----- > From: Gustav Brock [mailto:gustav at cactus.dk] > Sent: Monday, March 08, 2004 9:24 AM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: [AccessD] Accounting: digits only for account numbers? > Hi all > Some of you, I know, are quite experienced in accounting and/or > accounting systems. > Have any you encountered setups (for serious use) where literals were > not only allowed - they are quite often - but actually used in building > the chart of accounts for the general ledger? > I'm not thinking of setups where simple formatting of numbers could do > it, like: > U0900-34.00 > U7301-22.01 > U8398-12.00 > but something like this: > KH43TBB > KL43TBS > M3799JH > Also, I'm not thinking of old legacy systems nor customer or part > numbers as you can meet everything possible here. > Slightly OT, I know, but where else to ask? > /gustav -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From donald.a.Mcgillivray at mail.sprint.com Mon Mar 8 13:30:50 2004 From: donald.a.Mcgillivray at mail.sprint.com (Mcgillivray, Donald [ITS]) Date: Mon, 8 Mar 2004 13:30:50 -0600 Subject: [AccessD] Framework Discussion - Who's following this Message-ID: <6FC1C7A6E7BD5540AB0A8436713C43BF074A39F7@PKDWB01C.ad.sprint.com> 1) b 2) a/b 3) d Huge thanks, John, for offering your expertise on this topic. I'm largely self-taught and am always paying attention to stuff that appears on this list, gleaning whatever I can about methods, conventions, and common practices. My style has gone from "hugely undisciplined" to "moderately more disciplined" thanks to the stuff I've picked up here. I've been interested in learning and applying classes from the get-go, but have found little in the available literature that is aimed at folks with my background and skill level. Most books I've seen give very cursory coverage (basically mention that the functionality exists, but don't say much about how to use it) and forget about MS "Help". I'm really jazzed to have access to solid explanations with useful examples from an experienced expert. Finally, I think I'll be able to get my head around this stuff and put it to work. Thanks!! BTW, you obviously use a naming convention in your examples. It would be helpful to me (and perhaps to others who share my lack of formal training) to understand what the different prefixes denote, so I can better understand the distinctions between variables, etc.. Is the convention your own, or is it based on some widely used standard that I might study to get a better feel for it? Any help in this area is appreciated. Don McGillivray From Bryan_Carbonnell at cbc.ca Mon Mar 8 13:37:48 2004 From: Bryan_Carbonnell at cbc.ca (Bryan Carbonnell) Date: Mon, 08 Mar 2004 14:37:48 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] How to Deal with Time Durations Message-ID: What I finally decided to do was store the Start Date and Start Time as two different fields. Then Store the End Date and end time as two more fields. On the view form I calculate the duration using some code from the VBADH. On the data entry form, I allow the user to enter either the end date/time OR the duration. Which ever one the enter, I use the ato calculate the other one. I try and avoid converting dates into strings or number if at all possible. Since I live in Canada my users can, and do enter, dates in US format(mm/dd/yyyy) UK Format (dd/mm/yyyy) AND ISO format(yyyy-mm-dd). I try and let Access/VBA deal with the conversions from those formats to the formats it wants to use internally. And to make sure the date gets converted properly I ALWAYS, ALWAYS, ALWAYS format my dates to show letters for the month. That way if it converts 01/02/03 into something the user didn't mean, they can fix it right away. Bryan Carbonnell bryan_carbonnell at cbc.ca >>> adtp at touchtelindia.net 08-Mar-04 2:23:41 PM >>> Bryan, One option could be to store the date as a date field and time as string. Relevant query can include a calculated field depicting the time (in seconds) already lapsed or yet to lapse as compared to the present time (as returned by the Timer function). This affords remarkable flexibility in using the data the way any particular situation might demand. If it could be of any help, you could take a look at my sample db named AppointmentsAlert at Rogers Access Library (other developers section). It features an appointments planner. When put into standby mode, the utility goes into minimized state and keeps scanning the status of scheduled appointments at specified time intervals. As & when an event becomes due, an audio alarm is sounded accompanied by a pop-up form displaying the current status of various appointments. In the underlying queries, calculated field named MinutesTillSlot should be of interest to you. Related function named Fn_MinutesTillSlot could be modified to return seconds instead of minutes. Regards, A.D.Tejpal -------------- ----- Original Message ----- From: Bryan Carbonnell To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Sent: Thursday, March 04, 2004 20:14 Subject: [AccessD] How to Deal with Time Durations In a new app that I am creating, of which you will probably hear ALL about it over the next few weeks :), I have to keep track of event durations. Right now I have a field for the start time, and one for the duration. Both are Date/Time fields. The durations for the event can last from 1 second all the way up to many hours, and possibly even days. Should I actually be storing the start and end time and calculating the duration? The duration can be entered as either the actual duration or the actual end time. If you have done something like this, how have you handled it? Thanks, From john at winhaven.net Mon Mar 8 13:48:45 2004 From: john at winhaven.net (John Bartow) Date: Mon, 8 Mar 2004 13:48:45 -0600 Subject: [AccessD] Framework Discussion - Who's following this In-Reply-To: Message-ID: 1 a-b 2 a-b 3 b-c I truly appreciate your participation. John B. -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of John W. Colby Sent: Monday, March 08, 2004 12:44 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: [AccessD] Framework Discussion - Who's following this My objective with this discussion is to explain the concepts and implementation of frameworks in sufficient detail that anyone willing to learn can pick up at least a few new ideas, understand classes and how they can solve problems, understand withevents and how using them allows us to encapsulate entire subsystems into an object, and understand Frameworks and how and why they might be useful. I know that this is a rather large objective, and that some of these subjects seem rather deep. I am attempting to keep the details clean and uncluttered in the beginning so that you can not get bogged down in stuff not relevant to the specific subject of the specific post. In order to accomplish this objective I need to get a feeling for who is following this discussion and at what level. Would everyone interested in this thread please answer the following questions: 1) Interest Level a) I already pretty much do what you are discussing, just wanted to see how you do it. b) I am extremely interested in this concept and subject, would probably use it if I can figure it out. c) I am interested and might start using some of this stuff. d) Moderately interested, probably too much work for what I see getting out of it e) Marginally interested, probably never use any of it. 2) Understanding a) I understand completely what is going on b) I mostly follow what is happening but have a couple of things I don't really understand c) I am trying my best but can't really follow a lot of it d) Hopelessly lost, want to understand but need you to slow down a bit. 3) Participation a) I am scanning the posts lightly to just get the basics b) I am reading it and attempting to follow the examples. c) I am reading the posts and working through the included code, and have downloaded the example database d) I am reading and have downloaded the database, and have worked through the examples in the database to see how this stuff works. I truly appreciate your participation. Thanks, John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From Kenneth.Stoker at pnl.gov Mon Mar 8 13:46:04 2004 From: Kenneth.Stoker at pnl.gov (Stoker, Kenneth E) Date: Mon, 08 Mar 2004 11:46:04 -0800 Subject: [AccessD] Framework Discussion - Who's following this Message-ID: <249C1CB246997C48BB74963CCD361C1B014A0538@pnlmse28.pnl.gov> 1) b 2) b 3) c Thanks for your efforts and time putting this together, John. Ken Stoker Technology Commercialization Information Systems Administrator PH: (509) 375-3758 FAX: (509) 375-6731 E-mail: Kenneth.Stoker at pnl.gov -----Original Message----- From: John W. Colby [mailto:jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com] Sent: Monday, March 08, 2004 10:44 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: [AccessD] Framework Discussion - Who's following this My objective with this discussion is to explain the concepts and implementation of frameworks in sufficient detail that anyone willing to learn can pick up at least a few new ideas, understand classes and how they can solve problems, understand withevents and how using them allows us to encapsulate entire subsystems into an object, and understand Frameworks and how and why they might be useful. I know that this is a rather large objective, and that some of these subjects seem rather deep. I am attempting to keep the details clean and uncluttered in the beginning so that you can not get bogged down in stuff not relevant to the specific subject of the specific post. In order to accomplish this objective I need to get a feeling for who is following this discussion and at what level. Would everyone interested in this thread please answer the following questions: 1) Interest Level a) I already pretty much do what you are discussing, just wanted to see how you do it. b) I am extremely interested in this concept and subject, would probably use it if I can figure it out. c) I am interested and might start using some of this stuff. d) Moderately interested, probably too much work for what I see getting out of it e) Marginally interested, probably never use any of it. 2) Understanding a) I understand completely what is going on b) I mostly follow what is happening but have a couple of things I don't really understand c) I am trying my best but can't really follow a lot of it d) Hopelessly lost, want to understand but need you to slow down a bit. 3) Participation a) I am scanning the posts lightly to just get the basics b) I am reading it and attempting to follow the examples. c) I am reading the posts and working through the included code, and have downloaded the example database d) I am reading and have downloaded the database, and have worked through the examples in the database to see how this stuff works. I truly appreciate your participation. Thanks, John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From Bryan_Carbonnell at cbc.ca Mon Mar 8 14:02:52 2004 From: Bryan_Carbonnell at cbc.ca (Bryan Carbonnell) Date: Mon, 08 Mar 2004 15:02:52 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Framework Discussion - Who's following this Message-ID: 1 - b 2 - e - haven't had a chance to read then yet, so I have zero comprehension at the moment. 3 - e - haven't had the time to read them yet, but I plan on reading them fully and looking at any samples there are. I truly appreciate you putting this together John. Bryan Carbonnell bryan_carbonnell at cbc.ca From hoopesg at hotmail.com Mon Mar 8 14:08:45 2004 From: hoopesg at hotmail.com (Gina Hoopes) Date: Mon, 08 Mar 2004 14:08:45 -0600 Subject: [AccessD] Framework Discussion - Who's following this Message-ID: 1) b 2) c 3) b Thank you for doing this. I've already learned a lot. Gina From: "John W. Colby" Reply-To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving To: "Access Developers discussion and problem solving" Subject: [AccessD] Framework Discussion - Who's following this Date: Mon, 8 Mar 2004 13:43:55 -0500 My objective with this discussion is to explain the concepts and implementation of frameworks in sufficient detail that anyone willing to learn can pick up at least a few new ideas, understand classes and how they can solve problems, understand withevents and how using them allows us to encapsulate entire subsystems into an object, and understand Frameworks and how and why they might be useful. I know that this is a rather large objective, and that some of these subjects seem rather deep. I am attempting to keep the details clean and uncluttered in the beginning so that you can not get bogged down in stuff not relevant to the specific subject of the specific post. In order to accomplish this objective I need to get a feeling for who is following this discussion and at what level. Would everyone interested in this thread please answer the following questions: 1) Interest Level a) I already pretty much do what you are discussing, just wanted to see how you do it. b) I am extremely interested in this concept and subject, would probably use it if I can figure it out. c) I am interested and might start using some of this stuff. d) Moderately interested, probably too much work for what I see getting out of it e) Marginally interested, probably never use any of it. 2) Understanding a) I understand completely what is going on b) I mostly follow what is happening but have a couple of things I don't really understand c) I am trying my best but can't really follow a lot of it d) Hopelessly lost, want to understand but need you to slow down a bit. 3) Participation a) I am scanning the posts lightly to just get the basics b) I am reading it and attempting to follow the examples. c) I am reading the posts and working through the included code, and have downloaded the example database d) I am reading and have downloaded the database, and have worked through the examples in the database to see how this stuff works. I truly appreciate your participation. Thanks, John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com _________________________________________________________________ Frustrated with dial-up? Lightning-fast Internet access for as low as $29.95/month. http://click.atdmt.com/AVE/go/onm00200360ave/direct/01/ From john at winhaven.net Mon Mar 8 14:09:34 2004 From: john at winhaven.net (John Bartow) Date: Mon, 8 Mar 2004 14:09:34 -0600 Subject: [AccessD] Framework Discussion - Who's following this In-Reply-To: Message-ID: I meant I truly appreciate you doing this... John Doing to many things as once! -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of John Bartow Sent: Monday, March 08, 2004 1:49 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] Framework Discussion - Who's following this 1 a-b 2 a-b 3 b-c I truly appreciate your participation. John B. -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of John W. Colby Sent: Monday, March 08, 2004 12:44 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: [AccessD] Framework Discussion - Who's following this My objective with this discussion is to explain the concepts and implementation of frameworks in sufficient detail that anyone willing to learn can pick up at least a few new ideas, understand classes and how they can solve problems, understand withevents and how using them allows us to encapsulate entire subsystems into an object, and understand Frameworks and how and why they might be useful. I know that this is a rather large objective, and that some of these subjects seem rather deep. I am attempting to keep the details clean and uncluttered in the beginning so that you can not get bogged down in stuff not relevant to the specific subject of the specific post. In order to accomplish this objective I need to get a feeling for who is following this discussion and at what level. Would everyone interested in this thread please answer the following questions: 1) Interest Level a) I already pretty much do what you are discussing, just wanted to see how you do it. b) I am extremely interested in this concept and subject, would probably use it if I can figure it out. c) I am interested and might start using some of this stuff. d) Moderately interested, probably too much work for what I see getting out of it e) Marginally interested, probably never use any of it. 2) Understanding a) I understand completely what is going on b) I mostly follow what is happening but have a couple of things I don't really understand c) I am trying my best but can't really follow a lot of it d) Hopelessly lost, want to understand but need you to slow down a bit. 3) Participation a) I am scanning the posts lightly to just get the basics b) I am reading it and attempting to follow the examples. c) I am reading the posts and working through the included code, and have downloaded the example database d) I am reading and have downloaded the database, and have worked through the examples in the database to see how this stuff works. I truly appreciate your participation. Thanks, John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From rl_stewart at highstream.net Mon Mar 8 14:15:43 2004 From: rl_stewart at highstream.net (Robert L. Stewart) Date: Mon, 08 Mar 2004 14:15:43 -0600 Subject: [AccessD] Re: vbSendMail - Using with Access In-Reply-To: <200403081800.i28I0TM14944@databaseadvisors.com> Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20040308141154.02947220@pop3.highstream.net> Paul, copy the vbsendmail.dll into the windows\system directory START | RUN | regsvr32.exe vbsendmail.dll Then set a reference to it in your VBA code using TOOLS | REFERENCES (it will start with SMTP) I tested it on my computer and it worked perfectly with the code someone else posted for you. Robert At 12:00 PM 3/8/2004 -0600, you wrote: >Message: 6 >Date: Mon, 8 Mar 2004 10:05:29 -0500 >From: "Mike & Doris Manning" >Subject: RE: Re: [AccessD] vbSendMail - Using with Access >To: "'Access Developers discussion and problem solving'" > >Message-ID: <000001c4051e$cbbe4a60$9f194244 at hargrove.internal> >Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" > >Did you set a reference to the DLL? > >Doris Manning >Database Administrator >Hargrove Inc. >www.hargroveinc.com > > >-----Original Message----- >From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com >[mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of >paul.hartland at fsmail.net >Sent: Monday, March 08, 2004 9:47 AM >To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving >Subject: Re: Re: [AccessD] vbSendMail - Using with Access > > >To all, > >This is my code I currently have for the VBSendMail.dll : > >Public poSendmail As vbSendMail.clsSendMail ' Used for the vbSendMail >funtion (email directly to SMTP server). > >Function SendEmail() > ' **** SEND THE EMAIL MESSAGE DIRECTLY THROUGHT THE SMTP SERVER >(primary) **** > > Set poSendmail = New vbSendMail.clsSendMail > > poSendmail.SMTPHost = "Primary" > poSendmail.From = "me at orridge.co.uk" > poSendmail.FromDisplayName = "me" > poSendmail.Recipient = pStrEmailTo > poSendmail.ReplyToAddress = "me at orridge.co.uk" > poSendmail.Subject = "Personnel Available For Work" > poSendmail.Message = pStrEmailBody > poSendmail.Send > > Set poSendmail = Nothing > > ' >************************************************************************ >End Function > >I'm still getting > >User Defined Type Not Defined > >And points me to this line: > >Public poSendmail As vbSendMail.clsSendMail > >I have selected ActiveX Controls from the Tools menu in Access and >registered it that way, is that correct ? > >Paul Hartland From jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com Mon Mar 8 14:19:21 2004 From: jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com (John W. Colby) Date: Mon, 8 Mar 2004 15:19:21 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Framework - Naming conventions Message-ID: Naming conventions is an interesting and useful subject to cover here. I use a convention, loosely based around the LR (Lezinsky-Reddick) convention that even MS promoted before .net came along and they decided that naming conventions were a waste of time. I don't have a copy unfortunately that I can lay my hands on or I would post it on my site. I found this on MS (watch for wrap): http://support.microsoft.com/default.aspx?scid=http://support.microsoft.com: 80/support/kb/articles/Q110/2/64.asp&NoWebContent=1 These elsewhere: http://www.michael-thomas.com/tech/vb/vb_conventions.htm http://www.visibleprogress.com/vb_naming_conventions.htm http://www.developerfusion.com/show/52/3/ Etc. One important thing to note is that there is no "standard". LR was close but for whatever reason the authors decided to stop publishing their standard. I found LR on the inside of the cover of one of the access Bibles, and I loosely adopted it. The accepted wisdom is to find something reasonably common to start with and start using it. Whatever you do, stick to it. You may adapt things as you go and gradually change your convention as you find things that make more sense than what you are using but try your best to stick to what you are using. 1) USE naming conventions, try with all your might to ALWAYS use them (every time you dimension a variable). 2) On that note, set the property of the editor that requires dimensioning variables. In the editor in A2K, Tools / Options / Require variable declaration. This causes the editor to place Option Explicit at the top of every module and FORCES you to dimension a variable before using it. 3) Always dimension variables with the specific type that you need for that variable, avoid Variants like the plague. They have their place - for example passing in data to functions where nulls may cause runtime errors - but should NEVER be used unless you have a damned good reason to do so. I use things like l (lstrLName) for local variables, f (fclsFrm) for form variables declared in form headers, m (mfrm) for module variables declared in module headers. I also try to use c for constants (mclngBlue = 00012345) Others on this list can pipe up with their words of wit/wisdom. John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com From nanette.j.gould at Vanderbilt.Edu Mon Mar 8 14:21:11 2004 From: nanette.j.gould at Vanderbilt.Edu (Gould, Nanette) Date: Mon, 8 Mar 2004 14:21:11 -0600 Subject: [AccessD] Framework Discussion - Who's following this Message-ID: <7AAEB4CF230ABE41A01BEE6470DC407D150692@mailbe01> 1. b 2. c 3. b While I'm buried in a project at the moment, I definitely want to learn about classes and plan to work through the examples to the best of my ability. Thanks, Nanette -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of John W. Colby Sent: Monday, March 08, 2004 12:44 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: [AccessD] Framework Discussion - Who's following this My objective with this discussion is to explain the concepts and implementation of frameworks in sufficient detail that anyone willing to learn can pick up at least a few new ideas, understand classes and how they can solve problems, understand withevents and how using them allows us to encapsulate entire subsystems into an object, and understand Frameworks and how and why they might be useful. I know that this is a rather large objective, and that some of these subjects seem rather deep. I am attempting to keep the details clean and uncluttered in the beginning so that you can not get bogged down in stuff not relevant to the specific subject of the specific post. In order to accomplish this objective I need to get a feeling for who is following this discussion and at what level. Would everyone interested in this thread please answer the following questions: 1) Interest Level a) I already pretty much do what you are discussing, just wanted to see how you do it. b) I am extremely interested in this concept and subject, would probably use it if I can figure it out. c) I am interested and might start using some of this stuff. d) Moderately interested, probably too much work for what I see getting out of it e) Marginally interested, probably never use any of it. 2) Understanding a) I understand completely what is going on b) I mostly follow what is happening but have a couple of things I don't really understand c) I am trying my best but can't really follow a lot of it d) Hopelessly lost, want to understand but need you to slow down a bit. 3) Participation a) I am scanning the posts lightly to just get the basics b) I am reading it and attempting to follow the examples. c) I am reading the posts and working through the included code, and have downloaded the example database d) I am reading and have downloaded the database, and have worked through the examples in the database to see how this stuff works. I truly appreciate your participation. Thanks, John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From davide at dalyn.co.nz Mon Mar 8 14:28:53 2004 From: davide at dalyn.co.nz (David Emerson) Date: Tue, 09 Mar 2004 09:28:53 +1300 Subject: [AccessD] Framework Discussion - Who's following this In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <5.2.0.9.0.20040309092633.00b31d48@mail.dalyn.co.nz> 1. b 2. e - am filing posts. An area I would like to investigate when have more time. 3. e - see above. I appreciate your work. Thanks for your effort. Regards David Emerson Dalyn Software Ltd 25 Cunliffe St, Churton Park Wellington, New Zealand Ph/Fax (877) 456-1205\ At 8/03/2004, John W. Colby wrote: >My objective with this discussion is to explain the concepts and >implementation of frameworks in sufficient detail that anyone willing to >learn can pick up at least a few new ideas, understand classes and how they >can solve problems, understand withevents and how using them allows us to >encapsulate entire subsystems into an object, and understand Frameworks and >how and why they might be useful. I know that this is a rather large >objective, and that some of these subjects seem rather deep. I am >attempting to keep the details clean and uncluttered in the beginning so >that you can not get bogged down in stuff not relevant to the specific >subject of the specific post. > >In order to accomplish this objective I need to get a feeling for who is >following this discussion and at what level. Would everyone interested in >this thread please answer the following questions: > >1) Interest Level > a) I already pretty much do what you are discussing, just wanted > to see how >you do it. > b) I am extremely interested in this concept and subject, would > probably >use it if I can figure it out. > c) I am interested and might start using some of this stuff. > d) Moderately interested, probably too much work for what I see > getting out >of it > e) Marginally interested, probably never use any of it. > >2) Understanding > a) I understand completely what is going on > b) I mostly follow what is happening but have a couple of things > I don't >really understand > c) I am trying my best but can't really follow a lot of it > d) Hopelessly lost, want to understand but need you to slow down > a bit. > >3) Participation > a) I am scanning the posts lightly to just get the basics > b) I am reading it and attempting to follow the examples. > c) I am reading the posts and working through the included code, > and have >downloaded the example database > d) I am reading and have downloaded the database, and have worked > through >the examples in the database to see how this stuff works. > >I truly appreciate your participation. > >Thanks, > >John W. Colby >www.ColbyConsulting.com > > >-- >_______________________________________________ >AccessD mailing list >AccessD at databaseadvisors.com >http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd >Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From Subscriptions at servicexp.com Mon Mar 8 14:49:19 2004 From: Subscriptions at servicexp.com (Robert Gracie) Date: Mon, 8 Mar 2004 15:49:19 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Framework Discussion - Who's following this In-Reply-To: Message-ID: -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of John W. Colby Sent: Monday, March 08, 2004 1:44 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: [AccessD] Framework Discussion - Who's following this My objective with this discussion is to explain the concepts and Ok Here is mine..... 1) Interest Level b) I am extremely interested in this concept and subject, would probably use it if I can figure it out. 2) Understanding b) I mostly follow what is happening but have a couple of things I don't really understand 3) Participation c) I am reading the posts and working through the included code, and have downloaded the example database For me, I would change Number 2 from "would probably" to "will" use it if I can figure it out.. I find my self reading your posts 6-8 times, making sure I understand what it is your teaching. While I downloaded the first Sample db, I saw no new one posted for the Classes - Supervisors post..... Thank You VERY MUCH John!! Robert Gracie www.servicexp.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From Bryan_Carbonnell at cbc.ca Mon Mar 8 14:35:08 2004 From: Bryan_Carbonnell at cbc.ca (Bryan Carbonnell) Date: Mon, 08 Mar 2004 15:35:08 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Framework - Naming conventions Message-ID: Reddick's Naming Convention can be found here: http://www.xoc.net/standards/rvbanc.asp Bryan Carbonnell bryan_carbonnell at cbc.ca >>> jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com 08-Mar-04 3:19:21 PM >>> Naming conventions is an interesting and useful subject to cover here. I use a convention, loosely based around the LR (Lezinsky-Reddick) convention that even MS promoted before .net came along and they decided that naming conventions were a waste of time. I don't have a copy unfortunately that I can lay my hands on or I would post it on my site. I found this on MS (watch for wrap): From garykjos at hotmail.com Mon Mar 8 15:20:31 2004 From: garykjos at hotmail.com (Gary Kjos) Date: Mon, 08 Mar 2004 15:20:31 -0600 Subject: [AccessD] Framework Discussion - Who's following this Message-ID: 1) b (or c depending on what kind of day I'm having) 2) b (or c...see above ;-) ) 3) a I have been interested in your framework concepts and methods of development for years John. It seems like the way to go. I just haven't been able to invest the time to go that route myself even though I know that it would end up SAVING me time and would result in a better end result in the long run. Gary Kjos garykjos at hotmail.com >From: "John W. Colby" >Reply-To: Access Developers discussion and problem >solving >To: "Access Developers discussion and problem >solving" >Subject: [AccessD] Framework Discussion - Who's following this >Date: Mon, 8 Mar 2004 13:43:55 -0500 > >My objective with this discussion is to explain the concepts and >implementation of frameworks in sufficient detail that anyone willing to >learn can pick up at least a few new ideas, understand classes and how they >can solve problems, understand withevents and how using them allows us to >encapsulate entire subsystems into an object, and understand Frameworks and >how and why they might be useful. I know that this is a rather large >objective, and that some of these subjects seem rather deep. I am >attempting to keep the details clean and uncluttered in the beginning so >that you can not get bogged down in stuff not relevant to the specific >subject of the specific post. > >In order to accomplish this objective I need to get a feeling for who is >following this discussion and at what level. Would everyone interested in >this thread please answer the following questions: > >1) Interest Level > a) I already pretty much do what you are discussing, just wanted to see >how >you do it. > b) I am extremely interested in this concept and subject, would probably >use it if I can figure it out. > c) I am interested and might start using some of this stuff. > d) Moderately interested, probably too much work for what I see getting >out >of it > e) Marginally interested, probably never use any of it. > >2) Understanding > a) I understand completely what is going on > b) I mostly follow what is happening but have a couple of things I don't >really understand > c) I am trying my best but can't really follow a lot of it > d) Hopelessly lost, want to understand but need you to slow down a bit. > >3) Participation > a) I am scanning the posts lightly to just get the basics > b) I am reading it and attempting to follow the examples. > c) I am reading the posts and working through the included code, and have >downloaded the example database > d) I am reading and have downloaded the database, and have worked through >the examples in the database to see how this stuff works. > >I truly appreciate your participation. > >Thanks, > >John W. Colby >www.ColbyConsulting.com > > >-- >_______________________________________________ >AccessD mailing list >AccessD at databaseadvisors.com >http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd >Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com _________________________________________________________________ Store more e-mails with MSN Hotmail Extra Storage ? 4 plans to choose from! http://click.atdmt.com/AVE/go/onm00200362ave/direct/01/ From cfoust at infostatsystems.com Mon Mar 8 16:48:17 2004 From: cfoust at infostatsystems.com (Charlotte Foust) Date: Mon, 8 Mar 2004 14:48:17 -0800 Subject: [AccessD] Framework - Naming conventions Message-ID: John, I also started using LR when they first published their joint naming conventions. I've stuck with Leszynski's because I prefer his 3 character tag to the sometimes longer tags Reddick uses. You can find Stan's naming conventions in the book Access 97 Expert Solutions, or here: http://c85.cemi.rssi.ru/access/Books/A97ExSol/contents.htm Charlotte Foust -----Original Message----- From: John W. Colby [mailto:jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com] Sent: Monday, March 08, 2004 12:19 PM To: AccessD Subject: [AccessD] Framework - Naming conventions Naming conventions is an interesting and useful subject to cover here. I use a convention, loosely based around the LR (Lezinsky-Reddick) convention that even MS promoted before .net came along and they decided that naming conventions were a waste of time. I don't have a copy unfortunately that I can lay my hands on or I would post it on my site. I found this on MS (watch for wrap): http://support.microsoft.com/default.aspx?scid=http://support.microsoft. com: 80/support/kb/articles/Q110/2/64.asp&NoWebContent=1 These elsewhere: http://www.michael-thomas.com/tech/vb/vb_conventions.htm http://www.visibleprogress.com/vb_naming_conventions.htm http://www.developerfusion.com/show/52/3/ Etc. One important thing to note is that there is no "standard". LR was close but for whatever reason the authors decided to stop publishing their standard. I found LR on the inside of the cover of one of the access Bibles, and I loosely adopted it. The accepted wisdom is to find something reasonably common to start with and start using it. Whatever you do, stick to it. You may adapt things as you go and gradually change your convention as you find things that make more sense than what you are using but try your best to stick to what you are using. 1) USE naming conventions, try with all your might to ALWAYS use them (every time you dimension a variable). 2) On that note, set the property of the editor that requires dimensioning variables. In the editor in A2K, Tools / Options / Require variable declaration. This causes the editor to place Option Explicit at the top of every module and FORCES you to dimension a variable before using it. 3) Always dimension variables with the specific type that you need for that variable, avoid Variants like the plague. They have their place - for example passing in data to functions where nulls may cause runtime errors - but should NEVER be used unless you have a damned good reason to do so. I use things like l (lstrLName) for local variables, f (fclsFrm) for form variables declared in form headers, m (mfrm) for module variables declared in module headers. I also try to use c for constants (mclngBlue = 00012345) Others on this list can pipe up with their words of wit/wisdom. John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From cfoust at infostatsystems.com Mon Mar 8 16:52:05 2004 From: cfoust at infostatsystems.com (Charlotte Foust) Date: Mon, 8 Mar 2004 14:52:05 -0800 Subject: [AccessD] Framework Discussion - Who's following this Message-ID: John, 1) Don't use it much at work (not my choice) but in my own projects, I use classes extensively, although without a "framework" per se. 2) a 3) a - Although I'm flagging the articles to read carefully when I'm not so bogged down in getting a release out the door. Charlotte Foust -----Original Message----- From: John W. Colby [mailto:jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com] Sent: Monday, March 08, 2004 10:44 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: [AccessD] Framework Discussion - Who's following this My objective with this discussion is to explain the concepts and implementation of frameworks in sufficient detail that anyone willing to learn can pick up at least a few new ideas, understand classes and how they can solve problems, understand withevents and how using them allows us to encapsulate entire subsystems into an object, and understand Frameworks and how and why they might be useful. I know that this is a rather large objective, and that some of these subjects seem rather deep. I am attempting to keep the details clean and uncluttered in the beginning so that you can not get bogged down in stuff not relevant to the specific subject of the specific post. In order to accomplish this objective I need to get a feeling for who is following this discussion and at what level. Would everyone interested in this thread please answer the following questions: 1) Interest Level a) I already pretty much do what you are discussing, just wanted to see how you do it. b) I am extremely interested in this concept and subject, would probably use it if I can figure it out. c) I am interested and might start using some of this stuff. d) Moderately interested, probably too much work for what I see getting out of it e) Marginally interested, probably never use any of it. 2) Understanding a) I understand completely what is going on b) I mostly follow what is happening but have a couple of things I don't really understand c) I am trying my best but can't really follow a lot of it d) Hopelessly lost, want to understand but need you to slow down a bit. 3) Participation a) I am scanning the posts lightly to just get the basics b) I am reading it and attempting to follow the examples. c) I am reading the posts and working through the included code, and have downloaded the example database d) I am reading and have downloaded the database, and have worked through the examples in the database to see how this stuff works. I truly appreciate your participation. Thanks, John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From James at fcidms.com Mon Mar 8 17:04:13 2004 From: James at fcidms.com (James Barash) Date: Mon, 8 Mar 2004 18:04:13 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Framework Discussion - Who's following this In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <200403082304.SAA08716@twister.bcentralhost.com> John, I've found this very interesting. Having moved from an more Object Oriented environment to Access, I've often been frustrated by what you cannot do. Having developed my own ways around some of these issues, including a number of classes to at least simulate some form of inheritance although without a formal framework, it's always interesting to see some else's approach. As for you questions: 1) a 2) a 3) b James Barash From jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com Mon Mar 8 17:12:23 2004 From: jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com (John W. Colby) Date: Mon, 8 Mar 2004 18:12:23 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Framework - Naming conventions In-Reply-To: Message-ID: OK, I found on my hard disk an old style help file of Leszynski Naming Conventions. I zipped it up and placed it on my site, and may I not be sued for copyright infringement. It's under "Useful files" the top item. John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Charlotte Foust Sent: Monday, March 08, 2004 5:48 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] Framework - Naming conventions John, I also started using LR when they first published their joint naming conventions. I've stuck with Leszynski's because I prefer his 3 character tag to the sometimes longer tags Reddick uses. You can find Stan's naming conventions in the book Access 97 Expert Solutions, or here: http://c85.cemi.rssi.ru/access/Books/A97ExSol/contents.htm Charlotte Foust From terry.mace at baesystems.com Mon Mar 8 18:35:17 2004 From: terry.mace at baesystems.com (MACE, Terry) Date: Tue, 9 Mar 2004 11:05:17 +1030 Subject: [AccessD] Framework Discussion - Who's following this Message-ID: 1-c 2-bc 3-b (looking for time to do c) Thanks for all this effort. Terry Mace -----Original Message----- From: John W. Colby [mailto:jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com] Sent: Tuesday, 9 March 2004 05:44 To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: [AccessD] Framework Discussion - Who's following this My objective with this discussion is to explain the concepts and implementation of frameworks in sufficient detail that anyone willing to learn can pick up at least a few new ideas, understand classes and how they can solve problems, understand withevents and how using them allows us to encapsulate entire subsystems into an object, and understand Frameworks and how and why they might be useful. I know that this is a rather large objective, and that some of these subjects seem rather deep. I am attempting to keep the details clean and uncluttered in the beginning so that you can not get bogged down in stuff not relevant to the specific subject of the specific post. In order to accomplish this objective I need to get a feeling for who is following this discussion and at what level. Would everyone interested in this thread please answer the following questions: 1) Interest Level a) I already pretty much do what you are discussing, just wanted to see how you do it. b) I am extremely interested in this concept and subject, would probably use it if I can figure it out. c) I am interested and might start using some of this stuff. d) Moderately interested, probably too much work for what I see getting out of it e) Marginally interested, probably never use any of it. 2) Understanding a) I understand completely what is going on b) I mostly follow what is happening but have a couple of things I don't really understand c) I am trying my best but can't really follow a lot of it d) Hopelessly lost, want to understand but need you to slow down a bit. 3) Participation a) I am scanning the posts lightly to just get the basics b) I am reading it and attempting to follow the examples. c) I am reading the posts and working through the included code, and have downloaded the example database d) I am reading and have downloaded the database, and have worked through the examples in the database to see how this stuff works. I truly appreciate your participation. Thanks, John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From accessd at shaw.ca Mon Mar 8 19:59:46 2004 From: accessd at shaw.ca (Jim Lawrence (AccessD)) Date: Mon, 08 Mar 2004 17:59:46 -0800 Subject: [AccessD] Your favorite control behavior In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Hi John: >I'd LOVE to work with an extremely competent SQL Server developer... So would I.:-) I am a compentent SQL programmer but if you are looking for 'extremmely competent' then SQL list is the place for recruits. Jim -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of John W. Colby Sent: Sunday, March 07, 2004 9:56 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] Your favorite control behavior The answer to ADO is yes... with the exception of the form RecordsetClone property which is by definition DAO. I use ADO exclusively in my current framework except for the recordsetclone stuff. I use recordsetclone to get a handle to the current recordset, as well as the current position of the form (what record is displaying) and use that to "move" the form to display a different record etc. As for unbound, hmmm... it probably could. I use a lot of tricks in my framework such as looking at the field that the control is bound to discover the field name, and now that I know how to do so (using DAO) drilling clear down to the table name and field name. So the answer to that is probably, but you might lose a lot of neat functionality. I'd LOVE to work with an extremely competent SQL Server developer / programmer in doing this though since I am going to need this functionality but don't know SQL Server that well. John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Jim Lawrence (AccessD) Sent: Monday, March 08, 2004 12:09 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] Your favorite control behavior Hi John: I have always liked your framework structure concept. I have not been too interested in pursuing that application deployment as, and do not take this the wrong way, most of my work is with SQL server BEs and, correct me if I am wrong, but at first blush, your framework is designed to manage 'bound' DAO programs. My apps may or may not bind the recordsets and these recordset are used to populate the forms...one step removed. Also, I use ADO almost exclusively. Does your framework handle or can be made to handle ADO and Unbound forms? (but bound (qualified) recordsets) Jim -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of John W. Colby Sent: Sunday, March 07, 2004 6:54 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] Your favorite control behavior Andrew, Yes, I am (slowly) learning .net. It's OO stuff is enough to make me drool. Unfortunately it's database stuff is weak and I am a database developer. Stick around (if you are an Access developer) for the framework discussion. Access' inheritance is non-existant so we use workarounds. If I could just inherit the form class and add my stuff I probably would do that but I can't. And of course controls don't have a class at all. Look in .net and a control is just a class that you can inherit like any other class. NICE!!! Lacking that in Access, classes out in a lib is a poor man's substitute and is what I am up to. John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Haslett, Andrew Sent: Sunday, March 07, 2004 9:41 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: [AccessD] Your favorite control behavior I always thought it was "I couldn't care less". Anyway, very interesting discussion. John, not sure if you've looked into yet, but the .Net languages (and many other OO languages I presume) will provide you with a lot of support for what you are trying to implement with your framework. Inherting your pages / controls from a base class will be ideal to 'inherit' common functionality that it seems you are doing. Custom controls (reusable) alse offer the capabilities you are creating with your framework. I haven't looked in detail at your framework or anything - just been browsing these discussions, but was interested to know if you've looked into .Net yet.., as I think you would find it quite interesting. Cheers, A -----Original Message----- From: John W. Colby [mailto:jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com] Sent: Monday, 8 March 2004 12:19 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] Your favorite control behavior >Correct me if I'm mistaken, but my understanding is that a form has >it's own class which you can multi instance in various ways and in which you can create property procedures and do any thing else one can do in a class of your own. It sounds not like you are creating a form class but a separate class to shadow the form class. Yep, you are correct. >The downside is needing to know the name of a control in order to be >able to operate with it. To program certain functionality (such as passing in the table / field / form to a combo for NotInList) that is correct. >The advantage of hooking up all default behaviors with a function is >that you can pass the procedure a reference to the actual control for which the event is triggered so there is no need for collections or code to run on the form open event. I see no advantage there. My form class scans all of my controls and loads a class for each control. That class hooks up all the functionality for them. I don't have to "make sure" I have cut the control from the right place so that stuff is in the event properties. >Every copy/paste of a control is automatically hooked up to the >standard events without ever writing any code except the single function procedures that all copies of the control trigger. So you have replaced writing a few lines of code in the Form's Open (standard, can be cut and pasted) with dozens of cuts and pastes of controls onto the form? Hmmm..... I can definitely see how this might be better.... >You can override the 'inherited' behavior by changing the function, >writing a specific event procedure or passing in one or more additional optional parameters. Of course you can. So can I using my framework and control classes. >Correct me again if I'm mistaken, but this facility to hook up events >has been around since Access 1 whereas WithEvents is somewhat newer and more esoteric and less universally understood or used. That's like saying "The car has been around a lot less time than the horse so why are we using a car". Sure, Withevents were not around when Access 1.0 came out, and of course this is not applicable to 1.0. More powerful tools are handed to us year after year. To say I am not going to use it because it wasn't available in 1.0 is silly and prevents adapting some very powerful tools. Jurgen, I could care less whether you want to use this stuff. I could care less whether you love hooking functions straight up to the event property. That is an option, and if that is the tool you choose to use, that is your business. I have explained to you why I don't touch that stuff, and why, when I have to take over an app where the previous developer uses that method it pains me greatly. I used to use it, don't get me wrong, it's just that there are tons of disadvantages and only one advantage, your "cut and paste" advantage. That "cut and paste" advantage isn't sufficient in my mind to overcome the disadvantages. In fact that advantage has been neatly replaced by Withevents in classes! You have a SINGLE function that you hook to a property, and you have a bunch of functions that you hook to a bunch of properties. I have a class that I pass a control to. I sink the events in that class, then call various functions of the class from those events. The results are similar, but not identical. I can for instance, turn on/off the behaviors using sysvars. My good friend William Hindman was using some stuff of mine and didn't like some specific things I was doing. I simply "switched it off" for him. Nothing more than "go in the sysvar table and set this sysvar = false. His system didn't use that behavior anymore. Try THAT with your method. A framework is waaaay more than just a function hooked to an event, or even a bunch of functions hooked to a bunch of events. It is a whole system that works together. My control classes talk to the form class. The form class loads SysVars that turn on and off functionality of the framework. I can override a given functionality for the entire application, or just for a given form in the application. The control classes "talk to" the form class and ask whether they should exhibit this behavior? The control class simply doesn't care whether the behavior is turned on / off for the entire application or just this form, all they care about is that they are supposed to exhibit the behavior THIS TIME, RIGHT NOW. Tomorrow the user might want the behavior and I go turn it on using a SysVar. TRY THAT with your "cut and paste" stuff!!! >Like Arthur, it looks to me like you write a great deal more code than >the one line each of us uses to hook a control to a common not in list procedure because you need to write and maintain the framework. You are 100% correct. I do write a whole lot more code than you do. In fact I write almost EXACTLY the same code you do, I just make it a part of a whole system rather than an isolated thing that happens. The "way more code" is the stuff required to tie it in and make it a system. When I design a form I don't "cut and paste" a bunch of controls so that they get hooked up properly. My form class loads control classes that hook everything up for me automatically. Whether I have one or a hundred combos on a form, every one can, if it needs it, have any of the various behaviors that the combo class provides. Why in the world would I go somewhere, "cut a control" and paste it in the form a hundred times? Furthermore I can take ANY form, load a form class in that form's Open and have all of my stuff just automatically applied to all of the controls on that form! All the combos suddenly know how to do combo stuff, all the text boxes suddenly know how to do text box stuff. If a given combo needs NotInList (and MANY don't), then a single line of code passes in the correct table / field / form for that combo to know how to do it. Try THAT with your "cut and paste" stuff! I seem to remember butting heads with you in the past. You were always about "the last ounce of (application) speed", and I simply don't care about that last ounce. I am more about speed of development and ease of maintenance. Your "cut and paste" does allow lightweight forms. I could care less. If that is what this is all about, I will hand you your "speed advantage" and you can walk away the winner. I will take my speed of development and ease of maintenance and I too will walk away a winner. I understand what you are doing, I have done it that way in the distant past. Listen to what I am trying to explain where frameworks are concerned, read it, UNDERSTAND it (ALL OF IT), and then if you still love your "cut and paste" stuff... "may the force be with you". And may I never have to maintain your apps! John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of J?rgen Welz Sent: Sunday, March 07, 2004 6:01 PM To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: RE: [AccessD] Your favorite control behavior Correct me if I'm mistaken, but my understanding is that a form has it's own class which you can multi instance in various ways and in which you can create property procedures and do any thing else one can do in a class of your own. It sounds not like you are creating a form class but a separate class to shadow the form class. The downside is needing to know the name of a control in order to be able to operate with it. The advantage of hooking up all default behaviors with a function is that you can pass the procedure a reference to the actual control for which the event is triggered so there is no need for collections or code to run on the form open event. Every copy/paste of a control is automatically hooked up to the standard events without ever writing any code except the single function procedures that all copies of the control trigger. You can override the 'inherited' behaviour by changing the function, writing a specific event procedure or passing in one or more additional optional parameters. Correct me again if I'm mistaken, but this facility to hook up events has been around since Access 1 whereas WithEvents is somewhat newer and more esoteric and less universally understood or used. I suspect that developers coming from a Visual Basic background are less familiar with the advantages of this approach, particularly when they bemoan the lack of control arrays. I suspect this facility is the reason that control arrays were never needed in Access. Like Arthur, it looks to me like you write a great deal more code than the one line each of us uses to hook a contol to a common not in list procedure because you need to write and maintain the framework. Ciao J?rgen Welz Edmonton, Alberta jwelz at hotmail.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com Mon Mar 8 20:26:29 2004 From: jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com (John W. Colby) Date: Mon, 8 Mar 2004 21:26:29 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Your favorite control behavior In-Reply-To: Message-ID: LOL. John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Jim Lawrence (AccessD) Sent: Monday, March 08, 2004 9:00 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] Your favorite control behavior Hi John: >I'd LOVE to work with an extremely competent SQL Server developer... So would I.:-) I am a compentent SQL programmer but if you are looking for 'extremmely competent' then SQL list is the place for recruits. Jim -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of John W. Colby Sent: Sunday, March 07, 2004 9:56 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] Your favorite control behavior The answer to ADO is yes... with the exception of the form RecordsetClone property which is by definition DAO. I use ADO exclusively in my current framework except for the recordsetclone stuff. I use recordsetclone to get a handle to the current recordset, as well as the current position of the form (what record is displaying) and use that to "move" the form to display a different record etc. As for unbound, hmmm... it probably could. I use a lot of tricks in my framework such as looking at the field that the control is bound to discover the field name, and now that I know how to do so (using DAO) drilling clear down to the table name and field name. So the answer to that is probably, but you might lose a lot of neat functionality. I'd LOVE to work with an extremely competent SQL Server developer / programmer in doing this though since I am going to need this functionality but don't know SQL Server that well. John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Jim Lawrence (AccessD) Sent: Monday, March 08, 2004 12:09 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] Your favorite control behavior Hi John: I have always liked your framework structure concept. I have not been too interested in pursuing that application deployment as, and do not take this the wrong way, most of my work is with SQL server BEs and, correct me if I am wrong, but at first blush, your framework is designed to manage 'bound' DAO programs. My apps may or may not bind the recordsets and these recordset are used to populate the forms...one step removed. Also, I use ADO almost exclusively. Does your framework handle or can be made to handle ADO and Unbound forms? (but bound (qualified) recordsets) Jim -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of John W. Colby Sent: Sunday, March 07, 2004 6:54 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] Your favorite control behavior Andrew, Yes, I am (slowly) learning .net. It's OO stuff is enough to make me drool. Unfortunately it's database stuff is weak and I am a database developer. Stick around (if you are an Access developer) for the framework discussion. Access' inheritance is non-existant so we use workarounds. If I could just inherit the form class and add my stuff I probably would do that but I can't. And of course controls don't have a class at all. Look in .net and a control is just a class that you can inherit like any other class. NICE!!! Lacking that in Access, classes out in a lib is a poor man's substitute and is what I am up to. John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Haslett, Andrew Sent: Sunday, March 07, 2004 9:41 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: [AccessD] Your favorite control behavior I always thought it was "I couldn't care less". Anyway, very interesting discussion. John, not sure if you've looked into yet, but the .Net languages (and many other OO languages I presume) will provide you with a lot of support for what you are trying to implement with your framework. Inherting your pages / controls from a base class will be ideal to 'inherit' common functionality that it seems you are doing. Custom controls (reusable) alse offer the capabilities you are creating with your framework. I haven't looked in detail at your framework or anything - just been browsing these discussions, but was interested to know if you've looked into .Net yet.., as I think you would find it quite interesting. Cheers, A -----Original Message----- From: John W. Colby [mailto:jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com] Sent: Monday, 8 March 2004 12:19 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] Your favorite control behavior >Correct me if I'm mistaken, but my understanding is that a form has >it's own class which you can multi instance in various ways and in which you can create property procedures and do any thing else one can do in a class of your own. It sounds not like you are creating a form class but a separate class to shadow the form class. Yep, you are correct. >The downside is needing to know the name of a control in order to be >able to operate with it. To program certain functionality (such as passing in the table / field / form to a combo for NotInList) that is correct. >The advantage of hooking up all default behaviors with a function is >that you can pass the procedure a reference to the actual control for which the event is triggered so there is no need for collections or code to run on the form open event. I see no advantage there. My form class scans all of my controls and loads a class for each control. That class hooks up all the functionality for them. I don't have to "make sure" I have cut the control from the right place so that stuff is in the event properties. >Every copy/paste of a control is automatically hooked up to the >standard events without ever writing any code except the single function procedures that all copies of the control trigger. So you have replaced writing a few lines of code in the Form's Open (standard, can be cut and pasted) with dozens of cuts and pastes of controls onto the form? Hmmm..... I can definitely see how this might be better.... >You can override the 'inherited' behavior by changing the function, >writing a specific event procedure or passing in one or more additional optional parameters. Of course you can. So can I using my framework and control classes. >Correct me again if I'm mistaken, but this facility to hook up events >has been around since Access 1 whereas WithEvents is somewhat newer and more esoteric and less universally understood or used. That's like saying "The car has been around a lot less time than the horse so why are we using a car". Sure, Withevents were not around when Access 1.0 came out, and of course this is not applicable to 1.0. More powerful tools are handed to us year after year. To say I am not going to use it because it wasn't available in 1.0 is silly and prevents adapting some very powerful tools. Jurgen, I could care less whether you want to use this stuff. I could care less whether you love hooking functions straight up to the event property. That is an option, and if that is the tool you choose to use, that is your business. I have explained to you why I don't touch that stuff, and why, when I have to take over an app where the previous developer uses that method it pains me greatly. I used to use it, don't get me wrong, it's just that there are tons of disadvantages and only one advantage, your "cut and paste" advantage. That "cut and paste" advantage isn't sufficient in my mind to overcome the disadvantages. In fact that advantage has been neatly replaced by Withevents in classes! You have a SINGLE function that you hook to a property, and you have a bunch of functions that you hook to a bunch of properties. I have a class that I pass a control to. I sink the events in that class, then call various functions of the class from those events. The results are similar, but not identical. I can for instance, turn on/off the behaviors using sysvars. My good friend William Hindman was using some stuff of mine and didn't like some specific things I was doing. I simply "switched it off" for him. Nothing more than "go in the sysvar table and set this sysvar = false. His system didn't use that behavior anymore. Try THAT with your method. A framework is waaaay more than just a function hooked to an event, or even a bunch of functions hooked to a bunch of events. It is a whole system that works together. My control classes talk to the form class. The form class loads SysVars that turn on and off functionality of the framework. I can override a given functionality for the entire application, or just for a given form in the application. The control classes "talk to" the form class and ask whether they should exhibit this behavior? The control class simply doesn't care whether the behavior is turned on / off for the entire application or just this form, all they care about is that they are supposed to exhibit the behavior THIS TIME, RIGHT NOW. Tomorrow the user might want the behavior and I go turn it on using a SysVar. TRY THAT with your "cut and paste" stuff!!! >Like Arthur, it looks to me like you write a great deal more code than >the one line each of us uses to hook a control to a common not in list procedure because you need to write and maintain the framework. You are 100% correct. I do write a whole lot more code than you do. In fact I write almost EXACTLY the same code you do, I just make it a part of a whole system rather than an isolated thing that happens. The "way more code" is the stuff required to tie it in and make it a system. When I design a form I don't "cut and paste" a bunch of controls so that they get hooked up properly. My form class loads control classes that hook everything up for me automatically. Whether I have one or a hundred combos on a form, every one can, if it needs it, have any of the various behaviors that the combo class provides. Why in the world would I go somewhere, "cut a control" and paste it in the form a hundred times? Furthermore I can take ANY form, load a form class in that form's Open and have all of my stuff just automatically applied to all of the controls on that form! All the combos suddenly know how to do combo stuff, all the text boxes suddenly know how to do text box stuff. If a given combo needs NotInList (and MANY don't), then a single line of code passes in the correct table / field / form for that combo to know how to do it. Try THAT with your "cut and paste" stuff! I seem to remember butting heads with you in the past. You were always about "the last ounce of (application) speed", and I simply don't care about that last ounce. I am more about speed of development and ease of maintenance. Your "cut and paste" does allow lightweight forms. I could care less. If that is what this is all about, I will hand you your "speed advantage" and you can walk away the winner. I will take my speed of development and ease of maintenance and I too will walk away a winner. I understand what you are doing, I have done it that way in the distant past. Listen to what I am trying to explain where frameworks are concerned, read it, UNDERSTAND it (ALL OF IT), and then if you still love your "cut and paste" stuff... "may the force be with you". And may I never have to maintain your apps! John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of J?rgen Welz Sent: Sunday, March 07, 2004 6:01 PM To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: RE: [AccessD] Your favorite control behavior Correct me if I'm mistaken, but my understanding is that a form has it's own class which you can multi instance in various ways and in which you can create property procedures and do any thing else one can do in a class of your own. It sounds not like you are creating a form class but a separate class to shadow the form class. The downside is needing to know the name of a control in order to be able to operate with it. The advantage of hooking up all default behaviors with a function is that you can pass the procedure a reference to the actual control for which the event is triggered so there is no need for collections or code to run on the form open event. Every copy/paste of a control is automatically hooked up to the standard events without ever writing any code except the single function procedures that all copies of the control trigger. You can override the 'inherited' behaviour by changing the function, writing a specific event procedure or passing in one or more additional optional parameters. Correct me again if I'm mistaken, but this facility to hook up events has been around since Access 1 whereas WithEvents is somewhat newer and more esoteric and less universally understood or used. I suspect that developers coming from a Visual Basic background are less familiar with the advantages of this approach, particularly when they bemoan the lack of control arrays. I suspect this facility is the reason that control arrays were never needed in Access. Like Arthur, it looks to me like you write a great deal more code than the one line each of us uses to hook a contol to a common not in list procedure because you need to write and maintain the framework. Ciao J?rgen Welz Edmonton, Alberta jwelz at hotmail.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com Mon Mar 8 21:12:22 2004 From: jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com (John W. Colby) Date: Mon, 8 Mar 2004 22:12:22 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Framework Discussion - More classes Message-ID: We left off our discussion having built a framework class and a text box class. The text box class did nothing more than change the back color of the text box to cyan as it got the focus and back to the original color as it lost the focus. The form class did nothing more than scan the form?s Control collection looking for controls and instantiating classes for any controls that we had a class for ? just the text box class so far. For demo code look in C2DbFW3G-DemoCtlClassV2.zip for DemoCtlClassV2.mdb. This document can be found in there as well. I am deleting the old forms to clean up the demo database and let us focus on the new stuff. Today I am going to add a couple of more classes to our framework and tie them in to what we are doing. First I am going to add a combo class. The combo class will also do nothing more than change the back color as it gets / loses focus. I know this may be boring but it demonstrates clearly that the classes are being instantiated by the form?s control scanner and that the control classes do indeed load, sink events for their respective control and perform some action. Believe me, we have come a long way towards understanding how classes work, how withevents work, and how classes can play and work together. The dclsCbo The combo class is going to start out looking very much like the text box class. In fact I took the text box class, and used the editor to replace text with combo to create a new class. Option Compare Database Option Explicit The header just dimensions the combo control private, withevents, creates a constant string, a constant back color, and a variable backcolor to store the original backcolor. Private WithEvents mcbo As ComboBox 'Dimension a text box Withevents Private Const mstrEventProcedure = "[Event Procedure]" 'A constant to hold the string [Event Procedure] Private Const mclngBackColor As Long = 16777088 'A pretty blue color to set the text box back color to Private mlngBackColorOrig As Long 'A place to store the original back color The init is passed in a pointer to a specific combo and stores that in our private combo variable. It also sets up the combo?s OnEnter and OnExit properties. 'The init function of every class "initializes" the class Function Init(lcbo As ComboBox) 'Pass in a pointer to a specific control Set mcbo = lcbo 'Save that pointer to a private variable here in the class mcbo.OnEnter = mstrEventProcedure 'Set the OnEnter property of the control to [Event Procedure] mcbo.OnExit = mstrEventProcedure 'Do the same for the OnExit End Function The term does nothing more than clean up pointers to objects, in this case the combo that this class manipulates. ' 'The term function of every class cleans up all pointers to objects stored in our class ' Function Term() Set mcbo = Nothing 'Set the pointer to the control to nothing End Function And finally the Enter event of the combo control changes the back color, storing the original backcolor. ' 'These are the event stubs for the control's OnEnter and OnExit events ' Private Sub mcbo_Enter() mlngBackColorOrig = mcbo.BackColor 'When we enter the text box, save the original back color mcbo.BackColor = mclngBackColor 'Set the back color to our favorite color End Sub And the OnExit changes the combo?s backcolor back to the original color. Private Sub mcbo_Exit(Cancel As Integer) mcbo.BackColor = mlngBackColorOrig 'When we exit the control, set the back color back to the original color End Sub All of this looks almost identical to the text box class. dclsFrm Changes The only change we have to make to dclsFrm is to add a new class to our case statement in the control scanner to recognize and instantiate classes for combos. Private Sub FindControls() On Error GoTo Err_FindControls Dim ctl As Control Dim intIndex As Integer Dim col As Collection Set col = New Collection For Each ctl In mfrm.Controls 'Find each control in the form's control collection With ctl Select Case .ControlType 'Determine it's type Case acTextBox 'Find all text boxes and load class to change backcolor mcolClasses.Add New dclsCtlTextBox, .Name mcolClasses(.Name).Init ctl Case acSubform Case acTabCtl 'tab pages are handled in the tab control Case acOptionGroup Case acCheckBox Case acOptionButton Case acCommandButton Case acToggleButton Case acListBox Case acComboBox mcolClasses.Add New dclsCtlCbo, .Name mcolClasses(.Name).Init ctl Case Else End Select End With NextCtl: Next ctl Exit_FindControls: On Error Resume Next Set ctl = Nothing Exit Sub Notice the case acComboBox we added in the new dclsCtlCbo. One thing to notice about this syntax is that I add the class into the collection: mcolClasses.Add New dclsCtlCbo, .Name Notice that I use the new keyword right in the Add method of the collection to return a pointer to the object ? the dclsCbo in this instance. Then notice that I use the control?s name as the key into the collection. This enables me to look up the class for any control (assuming it has one in there) just by indexing into the collection with the control?s name. The next thing to notice is that if an object is stored in a collection, the methods and properties of the object in the collection can be referenced directly in the collection, i.e. you don?t need to bring the object back out of the collection and put it in a variable to get at the object. mcolClasses(.Name).Init ctl Here I initialized the class for the object that was stored in mcolClasses(.name) where .name is the control?s name, .init is the init method of the class in the collection, and ctl is the control being passed in to the init method of the class in the collection. This may seem obtuse but it saves us a lot of dimensioning variables, setting the variable to the class and using the variable to get at the class. So we have built a new class to handle any generic combo functionality we may desire, and we have added it into dclsFrm with two lines of new code. I will be adding classes for lists, check boxes, radio buttons etc but for now combos and text boxes are enough to display the power of the system without making us wade through classes that we won?t be using (yet). To see the new dclsCbo function, simply open frmPeopleV2 and tab through the controls. The combos are now changing background color as they get and lose the focus in the same manner that the text boxes do. I will be adding a new, more useful functionality to the combo class in the next article. dclsTimer ? A timer class The timer class neatly demonstrates the reusability and encapsulation advantages of classes. The actual code that does the timing was lifted from (I believe) ADH, but it was a single instance thing, i.e. it only had a couple of functions and a variable to store the timing stuff. Thus it could only time one thing at a time. By turning it into a class, we encapsulate the code, the documentation of how it works, and the variable(s) that make it all work. It also demonstrates that a class doesn?t have to be complex to do something useful for us. In order to use this I will time how long the form is open, and also how long it takes to do the control scanner stuff. Option Compare Database Option Explicit In the timer class header I declare a function that calls the windows API getting a long integer representing timer ticks ? measured in milliseconds. I also dimension a long integer variable to hold the start time counter tick Private Declare Function apiGetTime Lib "winmm.dll" _ Alias "timeGetTime" () As Long Private lngStartTime As Long There are only two methods of the class, StartTimer which stores the start time (tick count) and EndTimer which returns the difference between the start tick count and the end tick count. 'THESE FUNCTIONS / SUBS ARE USED TO IMPLEMENT CLASS FUNCTIONALITY '*+Class function / sub declaration Sub StartTimer() lngStartTime = apiGetTime() End Sub Function EndTimer() EndTimer = apiGetTime() - lngStartTime End Function '*-Class function / sub declaration Just remember that the results are in milliseconds (thousandths of a second). And finally, I will add this in to dclsFrm to allow us to time a couple of things. First I declare a timer variable in the dclsFrm header to hold a timer that can be referenced from anywhere in the class. Option Compare Database Option Explicit Private mclsTimer As clsTimer In the Initialize method of the class I instantiate the class, then start the timer. Private Sub Class_Initialize() Set mclsTimer = New clsTimer 'Instantiate a timer to time how long the form was open mclsTimer.StartTimer 'Start the timer running End Sub In the term() method I debug.print the timer value. This displays how long the form was opened in milliseconds. Function Term() 'Print the time the form was open Debug.Print mfrm.Name & " was open for " & mclsTimer.EndTimer & " milliseconds" Set mclsTimer = Nothing 'Then destroy the timer classEnd Function Now we are going to use another timer instance to time the control scanner. To do this we dimension a timer class local to the scanner function. Private Sub FindControls() On Error GoTo Err_FindControls Dim ctl As Control Dim intIndex As Integer Dim lclsTimer As clsTimer Set lclsTimer = New clsTimer lclsTimer.StartTimer For Each ctl In mfrm.Controls 'Find each control in the form's control collection With ctl And in the function?s Exit I debug print the time and destroy the timer class. Exit_FindControls: On Error Resume Next Set ctl = Nothing Debug.Print mfrm.Name & "'s control scanner took " & lclsTimer.EndTimer & " milliseconds to run" Set lclsTimer = Nothing Exit Sub Note: I ran the form on my 2.5 ghz AMD development machine and the scanner class took 1 millisecond to complete. In that time the scanner loaded classes for nine controls. From my debug window: frmPeopleV2's control scanner took 1 milliseconds to run This timer will be useful to us as we build more and more functionality into the various control classes. We want to just monitor how long it takes our form to load all of its classes so that if that time jumps to an unreasonable amount of time we are aware of it and can investigate why. Summary In this article we have added a new control class to handle future combo box functionality, as well as a timer class. These classes demonstrate once again exactly how easy it is to set up a class and use it. dclsFrm was modified to allow instantiating dclsCbo for every combo that the control scanner found. We also set up two timer classes in various places, one global to the form to time the amount of time the form was open, and another local to the control scanner to time how long it takes to load all of the control classes. We now have four classes working together to create a system that allows a form to find and load a class for all of its controls, the controls can perform functionality automatically, and timers can tell us how long various actions take to complete. John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com From andrew.haslett at ilc.gov.au Mon Mar 8 23:32:09 2004 From: andrew.haslett at ilc.gov.au (Haslett, Andrew) Date: Tue, 9 Mar 2004 16:02:09 +1030 Subject: [AccessD] Framework Discussion - Who's following this Message-ID: 1) d 2) b 3) b If I were doing more Access work I would follow it more closely. While I do love encapsulating common functionality to provide a 'cleaner' application as you do, not sure of the rewards gained from the work put into designing such a framework. If its saves you troubleshooting / debugging / designing / maintainability time in the end, then great - go for it...But would offer the same advantages to many others? How technically 'savvy' would they need to be? What sort of documentation effort would you need to put in to reach this level? My gut feeling is that Access *is* pretty much the framework, and presents perhaps too many restrictions to providing a purely extensible framework. If such a framework *is* desired, then although Access offers many advantages in terms of user/organisation accessibility, brilliant form and report designer etc, then I think it has to be considered that Access -may- not be the tool for the job.. Could the time be better spent learning new technologies that better embrace your programming style? A big gamble obviously, as it may rule-out the Access platform (at least for a while), but what does the future offer? Just a thought.. Cheers, Andrew -----Original Message----- From: John W. Colby [mailto:jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com] Sent: Tuesday, 9 March 2004 5:14 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: [AccessD] Framework Discussion - Who's following this My objective with this discussion is to explain the concepts and implementation of frameworks in sufficient detail that anyone willing to learn can pick up at least a few new ideas, understand classes and how they can solve problems, understand withevents and how using them allows us to encapsulate entire subsystems into an object, and understand Frameworks and how and why they might be useful. I know that this is a rather large objective, and that some of these subjects seem rather deep. I am attempting to keep the details clean and uncluttered in the beginning so that you can not get bogged down in stuff not relevant to the specific subject of the specific post. In order to accomplish this objective I need to get a feeling for who is following this discussion and at what level. Would everyone interested in this thread please answer the following questions: 1) Interest Level a) I already pretty much do what you are discussing, just wanted to see how you do it. b) I am extremely interested in this concept and subject, would probably use it if I can figure it out. c) I am interested and might start using some of this stuff. d) Moderately interested, probably too much work for what I see getting out of it e) Marginally interested, probably never use any of it. 2) Understanding a) I understand completely what is going on b) I mostly follow what is happening but have a couple of things I don't really understand c) I am trying my best but can't really follow a lot of it d) Hopelessly lost, want to understand but need you to slow down a bit. 3) Participation a) I am scanning the posts lightly to just get the basics b) I am reading it and attempting to follow the examples. c) I am reading the posts and working through the included code, and have downloaded the example database d) I am reading and have downloaded the database, and have worked through the examples in the database to see how this stuff works. I truly appreciate your participation. Thanks, John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com IMPORTANT - PLEASE READ ******************** This email and any files transmitted with it are confidential and may contain information protected by law from disclosure. If you have received this message in error, please notify the sender immediately and delete this email from your system. No warranty is given that this email or files, if attached to this email, are free from computer viruses or other defects. They are provided on the basis the user assumes all responsibility for loss, damage or consequence resulting directly or indirectly from their use, whether caused by the negligence of the sender or not. From andrew.haslett at ilc.gov.au Mon Mar 8 23:33:13 2004 From: andrew.haslett at ilc.gov.au (Haslett, Andrew) Date: Tue, 9 Mar 2004 16:03:13 +1030 Subject: [AccessD] Framework - Naming conventions Message-ID: I think they've still got it on the MS site for download somewhere too. -----Original Message----- From: John W. Colby [mailto:jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com] Sent: Tuesday, 9 March 2004 9:42 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] Framework - Naming conventions OK, I found on my hard disk an old style help file of Leszynski Naming Conventions. I zipped it up and placed it on my site, and may I not be sued for copyright infringement. It's under "Useful files" the top item. John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Charlotte Foust Sent: Monday, March 08, 2004 5:48 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] Framework - Naming conventions John, I also started using LR when they first published their joint naming conventions. I've stuck with Leszynski's because I prefer his 3 character tag to the sometimes longer tags Reddick uses. You can find Stan's naming conventions in the book Access 97 Expert Solutions, or here: http://c85.cemi.rssi.ru/access/Books/A97ExSol/contents.htm Charlotte Foust -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com IMPORTANT - PLEASE READ ******************** This email and any files transmitted with it are confidential and may contain information protected by law from disclosure. If you have received this message in error, please notify the sender immediately and delete this email from your system. No warranty is given that this email or files, if attached to this email, are free from computer viruses or other defects. They are provided on the basis the user assumes all responsibility for loss, damage or consequence resulting directly or indirectly from their use, whether caused by the negligence of the sender or not. From accessd at shaw.ca Mon Mar 8 23:50:05 2004 From: accessd at shaw.ca (Jim Lawrence (AccessD)) Date: Mon, 08 Mar 2004 21:50:05 -0800 Subject: [AccessD] Your favorite control behavior In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Well, to start, are you using ADO-ODBC or ADO-OLE? There is dramatic performance differences between these two connection methods and there are some significant differences in each interface. Jim -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of John W. Colby Sent: Monday, March 08, 2004 4:45 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] Your favorite control behavior You are correct however I can't efficiently do that since I don't understand the "working with" SQL Server enough to get anywhere. I have a client who is moving one of my apps to SQL Server. It would be nice to be able to get the framework "SQL Server compliant" whatever that may mean. Unfortunately they are using A2K and will continue to do so for quite some time I'm afraid. And I squeeze every bit of "interface" out of Access using things like queries that reference controls on forms, queries that reference my own custom VB (or for that matter Built-in) functions. Both of these are no-nos when working with SQL Server. So it is very much a combination of making the framework itself "data store independent" as well as MY learning how to replace what I do with what will work with SQL Server (or rather non-jet) data stores. For BOTH, I could use an expert in squeezing the last ounce of "interface" out of non-Jet data stores. John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Haslett, Andrew Sent: Monday, March 08, 2004 1:56 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: [AccessD] Your favorite control behavior >>I'd LOVE to work with an extremely competent SQL Server developer / programmer in >> doing this though since I am going to need this functionality but don't know SQL Server that well I don't think its SS as much as interfacing with the (OLEDB) driver used to communicate between Access and SQL. That's where your equivalent recordset behaviours come in. Unless youre talking about wrapping your functionality in Stored Procs using a disconnected framework... -----Original Message----- From: John W. Colby [mailto:jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com] Sent: Monday, 8 March 2004 4:26 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] Your favorite control behavior The answer to ADO is yes... with the exception of the form RecordsetClone property which is by definition DAO. I use ADO exclusively in my current framework except for the recordsetclone stuff. I use recordsetclone to get a handle to the current recordset, as well as the current position of the form (what record is displaying) and use that to "move" the form to display a different record etc. As for unbound, hmmm... it probably could. I use a lot of tricks in my framework such as looking at the field that the control is bound to discover the field name, and now that I know how to do so (using DAO) drilling clear down to the table name and field name. So the answer to that is probably, but you might lose a lot of neat functionality. I'd LOVE to work with an extremely competent SQL Server developer / programmer in doing this though since I am going to need this functionality but don't know SQL Server that well. John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Jim Lawrence (AccessD) Sent: Monday, March 08, 2004 12:09 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] Your favorite control behavior Hi John: I have always liked your framework structure concept. I have not been too interested in pursuing that application deployment as, and do not take this the wrong way, most of my work is with SQL server BEs and, correct me if I am wrong, but at first blush, your framework is designed to manage 'bound' DAO programs. My apps may or may not bind the recordsets and these recordset are used to populate the forms...one step removed. Also, I use ADO almost exclusively. Does your framework handle or can be made to handle ADO and Unbound forms? (but bound (qualified) recordsets) Jim -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of John W. Colby Sent: Sunday, March 07, 2004 6:54 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] Your favorite control behavior Andrew, Yes, I am (slowly) learning .net. It's OO stuff is enough to make me drool. Unfortunately it's database stuff is weak and I am a database developer. Stick around (if you are an Access developer) for the framework discussion. Access' inheritance is non-existant so we use workarounds. If I could just inherit the form class and add my stuff I probably would do that but I can't. And of course controls don't have a class at all. Look in .net and a control is just a class that you can inherit like any other class. NICE!!! Lacking that in Access, classes out in a lib is a poor man's substitute and is what I am up to. John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Haslett, Andrew Sent: Sunday, March 07, 2004 9:41 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: [AccessD] Your favorite control behavior I always thought it was "I couldn't care less". Anyway, very interesting discussion. John, not sure if you've looked into yet, but the .Net languages (and many other OO languages I presume) will provide you with a lot of support for what you are trying to implement with your framework. Inherting your pages / controls from a base class will be ideal to 'inherit' common functionality that it seems you are doing. Custom controls (reusable) alse offer the capabilities you are creating with your framework. I haven't looked in detail at your framework or anything - just been browsing these discussions, but was interested to know if you've looked into .Net yet.., as I think you would find it quite interesting. Cheers, A -----Original Message----- From: John W. Colby [mailto:jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com] Sent: Monday, 8 March 2004 12:19 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] Your favorite control behavior >Correct me if I'm mistaken, but my understanding is that a form has >it's own class which you can multi instance in various ways and in which you can create property procedures and do any thing else one can do in a class of your own. It sounds not like you are creating a form class but a separate class to shadow the form class. Yep, you are correct. >The downside is needing to know the name of a control in order to be >able to operate with it. To program certain functionality (such as passing in the table / field / form to a combo for NotInList) that is correct. >The advantage of hooking up all default behaviors with a function is >that you can pass the procedure a reference to the actual control for which the event is triggered so there is no need for collections or code to run on the form open event. I see no advantage there. My form class scans all of my controls and loads a class for each control. That class hooks up all the functionality for them. I don't have to "make sure" I have cut the control from the right place so that stuff is in the event properties. >Every copy/paste of a control is automatically hooked up to the >standard events without ever writing any code except the single function procedures that all copies of the control trigger. So you have replaced writing a few lines of code in the Form's Open (standard, can be cut and pasted) with dozens of cuts and pastes of controls onto the form? Hmmm..... I can definitely see how this might be better.... >You can override the 'inherited' behavior by changing the function, >writing a specific event procedure or passing in one or more additional optional parameters. Of course you can. So can I using my framework and control classes. >Correct me again if I'm mistaken, but this facility to hook up events >has been around since Access 1 whereas WithEvents is somewhat newer and more esoteric and less universally understood or used. That's like saying "The car has been around a lot less time than the horse so why are we using a car". Sure, Withevents were not around when Access 1.0 came out, and of course this is not applicable to 1.0. More powerful tools are handed to us year after year. To say I am not going to use it because it wasn't available in 1.0 is silly and prevents adapting some very powerful tools. Jurgen, I could care less whether you want to use this stuff. I could care less whether you love hooking functions straight up to the event property. That is an option, and if that is the tool you choose to use, that is your business. I have explained to you why I don't touch that stuff, and why, when I have to take over an app where the previous developer uses that method it pains me greatly. I used to use it, don't get me wrong, it's just that there are tons of disadvantages and only one advantage, your "cut and paste" advantage. That "cut and paste" advantage isn't sufficient in my mind to overcome the disadvantages. In fact that advantage has been neatly replaced by Withevents in classes! You have a SINGLE function that you hook to a property, and you have a bunch of functions that you hook to a bunch of properties. I have a class that I pass a control to. I sink the events in that class, then call various functions of the class from those events. The results are similar, but not identical. I can for instance, turn on/off the behaviors using sysvars. My good friend William Hindman was using some stuff of mine and didn't like some specific things I was doing. I simply "switched it off" for him. Nothing more than "go in the sysvar table and set this sysvar = false. His system didn't use that behavior anymore. Try THAT with your method. A framework is waaaay more than just a function hooked to an event, or even a bunch of functions hooked to a bunch of events. It is a whole system that works together. My control classes talk to the form class. The form class loads SysVars that turn on and off functionality of the framework. I can override a given functionality for the entire application, or just for a given form in the application. The control classes "talk to" the form class and ask whether they should exhibit this behavior? The control class simply doesn't care whether the behavior is turned on / off for the entire application or just this form, all they care about is that they are supposed to exhibit the behavior THIS TIME, RIGHT NOW. Tomorrow the user might want the behavior and I go turn it on using a SysVar. TRY THAT with your "cut and paste" stuff!!! >Like Arthur, it looks to me like you write a great deal more code than >the one line each of us uses to hook a control to a common not in list procedure because you need to write and maintain the framework. You are 100% correct. I do write a whole lot more code than you do. In fact I write almost EXACTLY the same code you do, I just make it a part of a whole system rather than an isolated thing that happens. The "way more code" is the stuff required to tie it in and make it a system. When I design a form I don't "cut and paste" a bunch of controls so that they get hooked up properly. My form class loads control classes that hook everything up for me automatically. Whether I have one or a hundred combos on a form, every one can, if it needs it, have any of the various behaviors that the combo class provides. Why in the world would I go somewhere, "cut a control" and paste it in the form a hundred times? Furthermore I can take ANY form, load a form class in that form's Open and have all of my stuff just automatically applied to all of the controls on that form! All the combos suddenly know how to do combo stuff, all the text boxes suddenly know how to do text box stuff. If a given combo needs NotInList (and MANY don't), then a single line of code passes in the correct table / field / form for that combo to know how to do it. Try THAT with your "cut and paste" stuff! I seem to remember butting heads with you in the past. You were always about "the last ounce of (application) speed", and I simply don't care about that last ounce. I am more about speed of development and ease of maintenance. Your "cut and paste" does allow lightweight forms. I could care less. If that is what this is all about, I will hand you your "speed advantage" and you can walk away the winner. I will take my speed of development and ease of maintenance and I too will walk away a winner. I understand what you are doing, I have done it that way in the distant past. Listen to what I am trying to explain where frameworks are concerned, read it, UNDERSTAND it (ALL OF IT), and then if you still love your "cut and paste" stuff... "may the force be with you". And may I never have to maintain your apps! John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of J?rgen Welz Sent: Sunday, March 07, 2004 6:01 PM To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: RE: [AccessD] Your favorite control behavior Correct me if I'm mistaken, but my understanding is that a form has it's own class which you can multi instance in various ways and in which you can create property procedures and do any thing else one can do in a class of your own. It sounds not like you are creating a form class but a separate class to shadow the form class. The downside is needing to know the name of a control in order to be able to operate with it. The advantage of hooking up all default behaviors with a function is that you can pass the procedure a reference to the actual control for which the event is triggered so there is no need for collections or code to run on the form open event. Every copy/paste of a control is automatically hooked up to the standard events without ever writing any code except the single function procedures that all copies of the control trigger. You can override the 'inherited' behaviour by changing the function, writing a specific event procedure or passing in one or more additional optional parameters. Correct me again if I'm mistaken, but this facility to hook up events has been around since Access 1 whereas WithEvents is somewhat newer and more esoteric and less universally understood or used. I suspect that developers coming from a Visual Basic background are less familiar with the advantages of this approach, particularly when they bemoan the lack of control arrays. I suspect this facility is the reason that control arrays were never needed in Access. Like Arthur, it looks to me like you write a great deal more code than the one line each of us uses to hook a contol to a common not in list procedure because you need to write and maintain the framework. Ciao J?rgen Welz Edmonton, Alberta jwelz at hotmail.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com IMPORTANT - PLEASE READ ******************** This email and any files transmitted with it are confidential and may contain information protected by law from disclosure. If you have received this message in error, please notify the sender immediately and delete this email from your system. No warranty is given that this email or files, if attached to this email, are free from computer viruses or other defects. They are provided on the basis the user assumes all responsibility for loss, damage or consequence resulting directly or indirectly from their use, whether caused by the negligence of the sender or not. -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From AGotzner at t-online.de Tue Mar 9 02:03:32 2004 From: AGotzner at t-online.de (Alexander Gotzner) Date: Tue, 9 Mar 2004 09:03:32 +0100 Subject: AW: [AccessD] Framework Discussion - Who's following this In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <001001c405ad$072ac0e0$2100a8c0@alexlap> 1b, 2b, 3c Alexander Gotzner > -----Urspr?ngliche Nachricht----- > Von: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] Im Auftrag von > John W. Colby > Gesendet: Montag, 8. M?rz 2004 19:44 > An: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Betreff: [AccessD] Framework Discussion - Who's following this > > > My objective with this discussion is to explain the concepts > and implementation of frameworks in sufficient detail that > anyone willing to learn can pick up at least a few new ideas, > understand classes and how they can solve problems, > understand withevents and how using them allows us to > encapsulate entire subsystems into an object, and understand > Frameworks and how and why they might be useful. I know that > this is a rather large objective, and that some of these > subjects seem rather deep. I am attempting to keep the > details clean and uncluttered in the beginning so that you > can not get bogged down in stuff not relevant to the specific > subject of the specific post. > > In order to accomplish this objective I need to get a feeling > for who is following this discussion and at what level. > Would everyone interested in this thread please answer the > following questions: > > 1) Interest Level > a) I already pretty much do what you are discussing, > just wanted to see how you do it. > b) I am extremely interested in this concept and > subject, would probably use it if I can figure it out. > c) I am interested and might start using some of this stuff. > d) Moderately interested, probably too much work for > what I see getting out of it > e) Marginally interested, probably never use any of it. > > 2) Understanding > a) I understand completely what is going on > b) I mostly follow what is happening but have a couple > of things I don't really understand > c) I am trying my best but can't really follow a lot of it > d) Hopelessly lost, want to understand but need you to > slow down a bit. > > 3) Participation > a) I am scanning the posts lightly to just get the basics > b) I am reading it and attempting to follow the examples. > c) I am reading the posts and working through the > included code, and have downloaded the example database > d) I am reading and have downloaded the database, and > have worked through the examples in the database to see how > this stuff works. > > I truly appreciate your participation. > > Thanks, > > John W. Colby > www.ColbyConsulting.com > > > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/a> ccessd > Website: > http://www.databaseadvisors.com > From mwp.reid at qub.ac.uk Tue Mar 9 03:11:41 2004 From: mwp.reid at qub.ac.uk (Martin Reid) Date: Tue, 9 Mar 2004 09:11:41 -0000 Subject: [AccessD] OT MSDE References: Message-ID: <000d01c405b6$89514d10$9111758f@aine> For the life of me I cant remember this I have a large create db script from SQL Server. I need to run it using Osql command line tools to recreate the database on and instance of MSDE. I cant remember the command to load and execute the script. To used to graphical tools these days. Anyone know Martin From Philippe.Pons19 at wanadoo.fr Tue Mar 9 03:39:34 2004 From: Philippe.Pons19 at wanadoo.fr (Philippe Pons) Date: Tue, 9 Mar 2004 10:39:34 +0100 Subject: [AccessD] OT MSDE References: <000d01c405b6$89514d10$9111758f@aine> Message-ID: <001701c405ba$6ef06240$d61a7053@linceow2000pro> Martin, try this: osql -S -d -i -E -E for Integrated Security HTH, Philippe. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Martin Reid" To: "Access Developers discussion and problem solving" Sent: Tuesday, March 09, 2004 10:11 AM Subject: [AccessD] OT MSDE > For the life of me I cant remember this > > I have a large create db script from SQL Server. I need to run it using Osql > command line tools to recreate the database on and instance of MSDE. I cant > remember the command to load and execute the script. To used to graphical > tools these days. > > Anyone know > > > Martin > > > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From gustav at cactus.dk Tue Mar 9 03:18:28 2004 From: gustav at cactus.dk (Gustav Brock) Date: Tue, 9 Mar 2004 10:18:28 +0100 Subject: [AccessD] How to Deal with Time Durations In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <1574739044.20040309101828@cactus.dk> Hi Bryan > What I finally decided to do was store the Start Date and Start Time as > two different fields. > Then Store the End Date and end time as two more fields. > On the view form I calculate the duration using some code from the > VBADH. > On the data entry form, I allow the user to enter either the end > date/time OR the duration. Which ever one the enter, I use the ato > calculate the other one. > I try and avoid converting dates into strings or number if at all > possible. First, you should always convert any input from a textbox to a date/time value with CDate() before using it in your code. If you have formatted the texbox to date/time, Access will have validated the input; if not, use IsDate() to validate before using CDate(). Then, the only situation where you will need a string representation of a date/time is when writing code for SQL or filters where you always will have to format to US format - this has been dealt with several times here. > Since I live in Canada my users can, and do enter, dates in US > format(mm/dd/yyyy) UK Format (dd/mm/yyyy) AND ISO format(yyyy-mm-dd). I > try and let Access/VBA deal with the conversions from those formats to > the formats it wants to use internally. As you, in this case, cannot use a fixed format for the texboxes, this format will be that of the user's settings for date/time in Windows. > And to make sure the date gets converted properly I ALWAYS, ALWAYS, > ALWAYS format my dates to show letters for the month. That way if it > converts 01/02/03 into something the user didn't mean, they can fix > it right away. Another possibility would be to let the user select a date/time format if he/she wants another than the settings from Windows and store the selection as a property of the user. This requires, of course, that the users do login to your app. /gustav From gustav at cactus.dk Tue Mar 9 03:31:48 2004 From: gustav at cactus.dk (Gustav Brock) Date: Tue, 9 Mar 2004 10:31:48 +0100 Subject: [AccessD] Accounting: digits only for account numbers? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <935539595.20040309103148@cactus.dk> Hi Charlotte Thanks Charlotte. Neither have I seen it, but many systems have strings for account numbers which would allow literals. /gustav > Yes, I understand that. I've just never seen that particular kind of > account numbering. If you use a surrogate primary key, it shouldn't > make any difference what literals they use, although you may need a > sortkey field to get them in the appropriate order in your chart of > accounts. > Charlotte Foust > -----Original Message----- > From: Gustav Brock [mailto:gustav at cactus.dk] > Sent: Monday, March 08, 2004 10:13 AM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: Re: [AccessD] Accounting: digits only for account numbers? > Hi Charlotte > Thanks, no it wouldn't be a "new thing". > I should stress that I'm not talking about primary keys but, of course, > of unique numbers with or without literals. > /gustav >> I've never seen it, but then I've been out of active accounting for >> years and it may be something new. If I'm designing a system, they >> can use anything they want because I'm not going to use that as the >> primary key anyhow. >> Charlotte Foust >> -----Original Message----- >> From: Gustav Brock [mailto:gustav at cactus.dk] >> Sent: Monday, March 08, 2004 9:24 AM >> To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving >> Subject: [AccessD] Accounting: digits only for account numbers? >> Hi all >> Some of you, I know, are quite experienced in accounting and/or >> accounting systems. >> Have any you encountered setups (for serious use) where literals were >> not only allowed - they are quite often - but actually used in > building >> the chart of accounts for the general ledger? >> I'm not thinking of setups where simple formatting of numbers could do >> it, like: >> U0900-34.00 >> U7301-22.01 >> U8398-12.00 >> but something like this: >> KH43TBB >> KL43TBS >> M3799JH >> Also, I'm not thinking of old legacy systems nor customer or part >> numbers as you can meet everything possible here. >> Slightly OT, I know, but where else to ask? >> /gustav > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From gustav at cactus.dk Tue Mar 9 03:39:03 2004 From: gustav at cactus.dk (Gustav Brock) Date: Tue, 9 Mar 2004 10:39:03 +0100 Subject: [AccessD] Framework Discussion - Who's following this In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <1745974560.20040309103903@cactus.dk> Hi John 1 e 2 a 3 b Nice work, John, I wonder where you find the time for this ... /gustav From gustav at cactus.dk Tue Mar 9 03:52:58 2004 From: gustav at cactus.dk (Gustav Brock) Date: Tue, 9 Mar 2004 10:52:58 +0100 Subject: [AccessD] OT MSDE In-Reply-To: <000d01c405b6$89514d10$9111758f@aine> References: <000d01c405b6$89514d10$9111758f@aine> Message-ID: <346809531.20040309105258@cactus.dk> Hi Martin > For the life of me I cant remember this > I have a large create db script from SQL Server. I need to run it using Osql > command line tools to recreate the database on and instance of MSDE. I cant > remember the command to load and execute the script. To used to graphical > tools these days. And a little lazy too?? Have a look here: http://support.microsoft.com/default.aspx?scid=kb;EN-US;q325003#5 My colleague has the same task scheduled this afternoon and located it as a link in the first hit at Google searching on: recreate msde instance /gustav From mwp.reid at queens-belfast.ac.uk Tue Mar 9 04:23:55 2004 From: mwp.reid at queens-belfast.ac.uk (Martin Reid) Date: Tue, 09 Mar 2004 10:23:55 -0000 Subject: [AccessD] OT MSDE In-Reply-To: <346809531.20040309105258@cactus.dk> Message-ID: LOL Yeah I know. Was just as quick to post the message. Got it now. Was in a rush this morning as I have to do this and take a Web Development class at the same time. Thanks Martin On Tue, 9 Mar 2004 10:52:58 +0100 Gustav Brock wrote: > Hi Martin > > > For the life of me I cant remember this > > > I have a large create db script from SQL Server. I need to run it using Osql > > command line tools to recreate the database on and instance of MSDE. I cant > > remember the command to load and execute the script. To used to graphical > > tools these days. > > And a little lazy too?? Have a look here: > > http://support.microsoft.com/default.aspx?scid=kb;EN-US;q325003#5 > > My colleague has the same task scheduled this afternoon and located it > as a link in the first hit at Google searching on: > > recreate msde instance > > /gustav > > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com Martin WP Reid Information Services Queens University Belfast Tel: (02890) 273750 ---------------------- From jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com Tue Mar 9 05:36:25 2004 From: jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com (John W. Colby) Date: Tue, 9 Mar 2004 06:36:25 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Framework Discussion - Questions and answers In-Reply-To: <1745974560.20040309103903@cactus.dk> Message-ID: If anyone has any questions please feel free to post them. I will answer to the best of my abilities. John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com From Erwin.Craps at ithelps.be Tue Mar 9 05:53:41 2004 From: Erwin.Craps at ithelps.be (Erwin Craps - IT Helps) Date: Tue, 9 Mar 2004 12:53:41 +0100 Subject: [AccessD] Framework Discussion - Questions and answers Message-ID: <46B976F2B698FF46A4FE7636509B22DF0AD5C3@stekelbes.ithelps.local> John I have a question. How do I get very rich in a short time and honest way? :-) Erwin -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of John W. Colby Sent: Tuesday, March 09, 2004 12:36 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: [AccessD] Framework Discussion - Questions and answers If anyone has any questions please feel free to post them. I will answer to the best of my abilities. John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com Tue Mar 9 06:22:39 2004 From: jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com (John W. Colby) Date: Tue, 9 Mar 2004 07:22:39 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Framework Discussion - Questions and answers In-Reply-To: <46B976F2B698FF46A4FE7636509B22DF0AD5C3@stekelbes.ithelps.local> Message-ID: Invent a better moustrap and hire the world's best marketing team. John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Erwin Craps - IT Helps Sent: Tuesday, March 09, 2004 6:54 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] Framework Discussion - Questions and answers John I have a question. How do I get very rich in a short time and honest way? :-) Erwin -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of John W. Colby Sent: Tuesday, March 09, 2004 12:36 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: [AccessD] Framework Discussion - Questions and answers If anyone has any questions please feel free to post them. I will answer to the best of my abilities. John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com Tue Mar 9 06:36:13 2004 From: jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com (John W. Colby) Date: Tue, 9 Mar 2004 07:36:13 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Framework Discussion - Questions and answers In-Reply-To: Message-ID: I guess I should have specified "questions about frameworks, classes, or in general what I am doing here". John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of John W. Colby Sent: Tuesday, March 09, 2004 6:36 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: [AccessD] Framework Discussion - Questions and answers If anyone has any questions please feel free to post them. I will answer to the best of my abilities. John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From rl_stewart at highstream.net Tue Mar 9 07:24:16 2004 From: rl_stewart at highstream.net (Robert L. Stewart) Date: Tue, 09 Mar 2004 07:24:16 -0600 Subject: [AccessD] Re: Framework Discussion - Who's following this In-Reply-To: <200403082311.i28NB2M23394@databaseadvisors.com> Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20040309072155.03ea88e8@pop3.highstream.net> John, 1. B 2. B-C 3. B I did not read where the sample DB was but I would like to download it and go to D on #3. I have a non-object based framework that I have been using for the last 3 years and it would be nice to make it more object oriented. Robert At 05:11 PM 3/8/2004 -0600, you wrote: >Date: Mon, 8 Mar 2004 13:43:55 -0500 >From: "John W. Colby" >Subject: [AccessD] Framework Discussion - Who's following this >To: "Access Developers discussion and problem solving" > From rl_stewart at highstream.net Tue Mar 9 07:51:02 2004 From: rl_stewart at highstream.net (Robert L. Stewart) Date: Tue, 09 Mar 2004 07:51:02 -0600 Subject: [AccessD] Naming conventions In-Reply-To: <200403082311.i28NB2M23394@databaseadvisors.com> Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20040309074927.02a38948@pop3.highstream.net> I could not find a place to upload what I found on Naming Conventions, now a 64 page word document, but who ever wants a copy, let me know and I will send a zipped copy to them. Robert From serbach at new.rr.com Tue Mar 9 09:35:03 2004 From: serbach at new.rr.com (Steven W. Erbach) Date: Tue, 9 Mar 2004 09:35:03 -0600 Subject: [AccessD] Framework Discussion - Who's following this Message-ID: <20040309093503.831969659.serbach@new.rr.com> 1) b) 2) b) 3) c) Regards, Steve Erbach Scientific Marketing Neenah, WI 920-969-0504 Security and Virus information: http://www.swerbach.com/security/virusinfo.htm From tinanfields at torchlake.com Tue Mar 9 09:49:06 2004 From: tinanfields at torchlake.com (Tina Norris Fields) Date: Tue, 09 Mar 2004 10:49:06 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Framework Discussion - Who's following this References: Message-ID: <404DE772.8050109@torchlake.com> 1) - b 2) - b or c, depending on my current level of stress 3) - b, with full intention of moving on to c an d Thanks, John, for being generous with your knowledge. I truly appreciate the gift. Tina John W. Colby wrote: >My objective with this discussion is to explain the concepts and >implementation of frameworks in sufficient detail that anyone willing to >learn can pick up at least a few new ideas, understand classes and how they >can solve problems, understand withevents and how using them allows us to >encapsulate entire subsystems into an object, and understand Frameworks and >how and why they might be useful. I know that this is a rather large >objective, and that some of these subjects seem rather deep. I am >attempting to keep the details clean and uncluttered in the beginning so >that you can not get bogged down in stuff not relevant to the specific >subject of the specific post. > >In order to accomplish this objective I need to get a feeling for who is >following this discussion and at what level. Would everyone interested in >this thread please answer the following questions: > >1) Interest Level > a) I already pretty much do what you are discussing, just wanted to see how >you do it. > b) I am extremely interested in this concept and subject, would probably >use it if I can figure it out. > c) I am interested and might start using some of this stuff. > d) Moderately interested, probably too much work for what I see getting out >of it > e) Marginally interested, probably never use any of it. > >2) Understanding > a) I understand completely what is going on > b) I mostly follow what is happening but have a couple of things I don't >really understand > c) I am trying my best but can't really follow a lot of it > d) Hopelessly lost, want to understand but need you to slow down a bit. > >3) Participation > a) I am scanning the posts lightly to just get the basics > b) I am reading it and attempting to follow the examples. > c) I am reading the posts and working through the included code, and have >downloaded the example database > d) I am reading and have downloaded the database, and have worked through >the examples in the database to see how this stuff works. > >I truly appreciate your participation. > >Thanks, > >John W. Colby >www.ColbyConsulting.com > > > > From j.r.porter at strath.ac.uk Tue Mar 9 10:07:49 2004 From: j.r.porter at strath.ac.uk (John R. Porter) Date: Tue, 9 Mar 2004 16:07:49 -0000 Subject: [AccessD] Framework Discussion - Who's following this In-Reply-To: <404DE772.8050109@torchlake.com> Message-ID: <000301c405f0$abc76d40$94249f82@ds.strath.ac.uk> 1) c 2) b 3) b John R. Porter I.T. Services University of Strathclyde Faculty of Education 76 Southbrae Drive Glasgow G13 1PP e-mail: j.r.porter at strath.ac.uk Tel. 0141 950 3289 -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Tina Norris Fields Sent: 09 March 2004 15:49 To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Framework Discussion - Who's following this 1) - b 2) - b or c, depending on my current level of stress 3) - b, with full intention of moving on to c an d Thanks, John, for being generous with your knowledge. I truly appreciate the gift. Tina John W. Colby wrote: >My objective with this discussion is to explain the concepts and >implementation of frameworks in sufficient detail that anyone willing to >learn can pick up at least a few new ideas, understand classes and how they >can solve problems, understand withevents and how using them allows us to >encapsulate entire subsystems into an object, and understand Frameworks and >how and why they might be useful. I know that this is a rather large >objective, and that some of these subjects seem rather deep. I am >attempting to keep the details clean and uncluttered in the beginning so >that you can not get bogged down in stuff not relevant to the specific >subject of the specific post. > >In order to accomplish this objective I need to get a feeling for who is >following this discussion and at what level. Would everyone interested in >this thread please answer the following questions: > >1) Interest Level > a) I already pretty much do what you are discussing, just wanted to see how >you do it. > b) I am extremely interested in this concept and subject, would probably >use it if I can figure it out. > c) I am interested and might start using some of this stuff. > d) Moderately interested, probably too much work for what I see getting out >of it > e) Marginally interested, probably never use any of it. > >2) Understanding > a) I understand completely what is going on > b) I mostly follow what is happening but have a couple of things I don't >really understand > c) I am trying my best but can't really follow a lot of it > d) Hopelessly lost, want to understand but need you to slow down a bit. > >3) Participation > a) I am scanning the posts lightly to just get the basics > b) I am reading it and attempting to follow the examples. > c) I am reading the posts and working through the included code, and have >downloaded the example database > d) I am reading and have downloaded the database, and have worked through >the examples in the database to see how this stuff works. > >I truly appreciate your participation. > >Thanks, > >John W. Colby >www.ColbyConsulting.com > > > > -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From HollisVJ at pgdp.usec.com Tue Mar 9 10:22:37 2004 From: HollisVJ at pgdp.usec.com (Hollis,Virginia) Date: Tue, 09 Mar 2004 10:22:37 -0600 Subject: [AccessD] Framework Discussion - Who's following this Message-ID: <618EB4D6DDCDD3119B0A00508B6FD37A0CB0D283@cntexchange.pgdp.usec.com> 1) B 2) C & D 3) Just started following. Virginia -----Original Message----- From: John R. Porter [mailto:j.r.porter at strath.ac.uk] Sent: Tuesday, March 09, 2004 10:08 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: [AccessD] Framework Discussion - Who's following this 1) c 2) b 3) b John R. Porter I.T. Services University of Strathclyde Faculty of Education 76 Southbrae Drive Glasgow G13 1PP e-mail: j.r.porter at strath.ac.uk Tel. 0141 950 3289 -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Tina Norris Fields Sent: 09 March 2004 15:49 To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Framework Discussion - Who's following this 1) - b 2) - b or c, depending on my current level of stress 3) - b, with full intention of moving on to c an d Thanks, John, for being generous with your knowledge. I truly appreciate the gift. Tina John W. Colby wrote: >My objective with this discussion is to explain the concepts and >implementation of frameworks in sufficient detail that anyone willing to >learn can pick up at least a few new ideas, understand classes and how they >can solve problems, understand withevents and how using them allows us to >encapsulate entire subsystems into an object, and understand Frameworks and >how and why they might be useful. I know that this is a rather large >objective, and that some of these subjects seem rather deep. I am >attempting to keep the details clean and uncluttered in the beginning so >that you can not get bogged down in stuff not relevant to the specific >subject of the specific post. > >In order to accomplish this objective I need to get a feeling for who is >following this discussion and at what level. Would everyone interested in >this thread please answer the following questions: > >1) Interest Level > a) I already pretty much do what you are discussing, just wanted to see how >you do it. > b) I am extremely interested in this concept and subject, would probably >use it if I can figure it out. > c) I am interested and might start using some of this stuff. > d) Moderately interested, probably too much work for what I see getting out >of it > e) Marginally interested, probably never use any of it. > >2) Understanding > a) I understand completely what is going on > b) I mostly follow what is happening but have a couple of things I don't >really understand > c) I am trying my best but can't really follow a lot of it > d) Hopelessly lost, want to understand but need you to slow down a bit. > >3) Participation > a) I am scanning the posts lightly to just get the basics > b) I am reading it and attempting to follow the examples. > c) I am reading the posts and working through the included code, and have >downloaded the example database > d) I am reading and have downloaded the database, and have worked through >the examples in the database to see how this stuff works. > >I truly appreciate your participation. > >Thanks, > >John W. Colby >www.ColbyConsulting.com > > > > -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From CSPELL at jhuccp.org Tue Mar 9 10:23:57 2004 From: CSPELL at jhuccp.org (CYNTHIA SPELL) Date: Tue, 09 Mar 2004 11:23:57 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Framework Discussion - Who's following this Message-ID: 1 - b 2 - c 3 - b I'm currently working under an approaching deadline, but will definitely get back to this. Thanks for all your time and effort, John. Cindy >My objective with this discussion is to explain the concepts and >implementation of frameworks in sufficient detail that anyone willing to >learn can pick up at least a few new ideas, understand classes and how they >can solve problems, understand withevents and how using them allows us to >encapsulate entire subsystems into an object, and understand Frameworks and >how and why they might be useful. I know that this is a rather large >objective, and that some of these subjects seem rather deep. I am >attempting to keep the details clean and uncluttered in the beginning so >that you can not get bogged down in stuff not relevant to the specific >subject of the specific post. > >In order to accomplish this objective I need to get a feeling for who is >following this discussion and at what level. Would everyone interested in >this thread please answer the following questions: > >1) Interest Level > a) I already pretty much do what you are discussing, just wanted to see how >you do it. > b) I am extremely interested in this concept and subject, would probably >use it if I can figure it out. > c) I am interested and might start using some of this stuff. > d) Moderately interested, probably too much work for what I see getting out >of it > e) Marginally interested, probably never use any of it. > >2) Understanding > a) I understand completely what is going on > b) I mostly follow what is happening but have a couple of things I don't >really understand > c) I am trying my best but can't really follow a lot of it > d) Hopelessly lost, want to understand but need you to slow down a bit. > >3) Participation > a) I am scanning the posts lightly to just get the basics > b) I am reading it and attempting to follow the examples. > c) I am reading the posts and working through the included code, and have >downloaded the example database > d) I am reading and have downloaded the database, and have worked through >the examples in the database to see how this stuff works. > >I truly appreciate your participation. > >Thanks, > >John W. Colby >www.ColbyConsulting.com > > > > -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From artful at rogers.com Tue Mar 9 13:44:29 2004 From: artful at rogers.com (Arthur Fuller) Date: Tue, 9 Mar 2004 11:44:29 -0800 Subject: [AccessD] Your favorite control behavior In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <000001c4060e$f28619c0$6501a8c0@rock> I could be of some help in the move to SQL too, JC. -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of John W. Colby Sent: Monday, March 08, 2004 7:29 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] Your favorite control behavior Are you a proficient programmer? If so I'd love to work with you, just follow the Framework discussion as it unfolds. I have just about decided to rebuild my own framework for the 3rd time (making it a 3rd generation design ;-) and will be doing so via this discussion. John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Mike & Doris Manning Sent: Monday, March 08, 2004 9:01 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: [AccessD] Your favorite control behavior I'm pretty SQL savvy... I'd be interested in helping you out. Doris Manning Database Administrator Hargrove Inc. www.hargroveinc.com -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of John W. Colby Sent: Monday, March 08, 2004 7:45 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] Your favorite control behavior You are correct however I can't efficiently do that since I don't understand the "working with" SQL Server enough to get anywhere. I have a client who is moving one of my apps to SQL Server. It would be nice to be able to get the framework "SQL Server compliant" whatever that may mean. Unfortunately they are using A2K and will continue to do so for quite some time I'm afraid. And I squeeze every bit of "interface" out of Access using things like queries that reference controls on forms, queries that reference my own custom VB (or for that matter Built-in) functions. Both of these are no-nos when working with SQL Server. So it is very much a combination of making the framework itself "data store independent" as well as MY learning how to replace what I do with what will work with SQL Server (or rather non-jet) data stores. For BOTH, I could use an expert in squeezing the last ounce of "interface" out of non-Jet data stores. John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Haslett, Andrew Sent: Monday, March 08, 2004 1:56 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: [AccessD] Your favorite control behavior >>I'd LOVE to work with an extremely competent SQL Server developer / programmer in >> doing this though since I am going to need this functionality but >> don't know SQL Server that well I don't think its SS as much as interfacing with the (OLEDB) driver used to communicate between Access and SQL. That's where your equivalent recordset behaviours come in. Unless youre talking about wrapping your functionality in Stored Procs using a disconnected framework... -----Original Message----- From: John W. Colby [mailto:jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com] Sent: Monday, 8 March 2004 4:26 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] Your favorite control behavior The answer to ADO is yes... with the exception of the form RecordsetClone property which is by definition DAO. I use ADO exclusively in my current framework except for the recordsetclone stuff. I use recordsetclone to get a handle to the current recordset, as well as the current position of the form (what record is displaying) and use that to "move" the form to display a different record etc. As for unbound, hmmm... it probably could. I use a lot of tricks in my framework such as looking at the field that the control is bound to discover the field name, and now that I know how to do so (using DAO) drilling clear down to the table name and field name. So the answer to that is probably, but you might lose a lot of neat functionality. I'd LOVE to work with an extremely competent SQL Server developer / programmer in doing this though since I am going to need this functionality but don't know SQL Server that well. John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Jim Lawrence (AccessD) Sent: Monday, March 08, 2004 12:09 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] Your favorite control behavior Hi John: I have always liked your framework structure concept. I have not been too interested in pursuing that application deployment as, and do not take this the wrong way, most of my work is with SQL server BEs and, correct me if I am wrong, but at first blush, your framework is designed to manage 'bound' DAO programs. My apps may or may not bind the recordsets and these recordset are used to populate the forms...one step removed. Also, I use ADO almost exclusively. Does your framework handle or can be made to handle ADO and Unbound forms? (but bound (qualified) recordsets) Jim -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of John W. Colby Sent: Sunday, March 07, 2004 6:54 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] Your favorite control behavior Andrew, Yes, I am (slowly) learning .net. It's OO stuff is enough to make me drool. Unfortunately it's database stuff is weak and I am a database developer. Stick around (if you are an Access developer) for the framework discussion. Access' inheritance is non-existant so we use workarounds. If I could just inherit the form class and add my stuff I probably would do that but I can't. And of course controls don't have a class at all. Look in .net and a control is just a class that you can inherit like any other class. NICE!!! Lacking that in Access, classes out in a lib is a poor man's substitute and is what I am up to. John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Haslett, Andrew Sent: Sunday, March 07, 2004 9:41 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: [AccessD] Your favorite control behavior I always thought it was "I couldn't care less". Anyway, very interesting discussion. John, not sure if you've looked into yet, but the .Net languages (and many other OO languages I presume) will provide you with a lot of support for what you are trying to implement with your framework. Inherting your pages / controls from a base class will be ideal to 'inherit' common functionality that it seems you are doing. Custom controls (reusable) alse offer the capabilities you are creating with your framework. I haven't looked in detail at your framework or anything - just been browsing these discussions, but was interested to know if you've looked into .Net yet.., as I think you would find it quite interesting. Cheers, A -----Original Message----- From: John W. Colby [mailto:jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com] Sent: Monday, 8 March 2004 12:19 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] Your favorite control behavior >Correct me if I'm mistaken, but my understanding is that a form has >it's own class which you can multi instance in various ways and in which you can create property procedures and do any thing else one can do in a class of your own. It sounds not like you are creating a form class but a separate class to shadow the form class. Yep, you are correct. >The downside is needing to know the name of a control in order to be >able to operate with it. To program certain functionality (such as passing in the table / field / form to a combo for NotInList) that is correct. >The advantage of hooking up all default behaviors with a function is >that you can pass the procedure a reference to the actual control for which the event is triggered so there is no need for collections or code to run on the form open event. I see no advantage there. My form class scans all of my controls and loads a class for each control. That class hooks up all the functionality for them. I don't have to "make sure" I have cut the control from the right place so that stuff is in the event properties. >Every copy/paste of a control is automatically hooked up to the >standard events without ever writing any code except the single function procedures that all copies of the control trigger. So you have replaced writing a few lines of code in the Form's Open (standard, can be cut and pasted) with dozens of cuts and pastes of controls onto the form? Hmmm..... I can definitely see how this might be better.... >You can override the 'inherited' behavior by changing the function, >writing a specific event procedure or passing in one or more additional optional parameters. Of course you can. So can I using my framework and control classes. >Correct me again if I'm mistaken, but this facility to hook up events >has been around since Access 1 whereas WithEvents is somewhat newer and more esoteric and less universally understood or used. That's like saying "The car has been around a lot less time than the horse so why are we using a car". Sure, Withevents were not around when Access 1.0 came out, and of course this is not applicable to 1.0. More powerful tools are handed to us year after year. To say I am not going to use it because it wasn't available in 1.0 is silly and prevents adapting some very powerful tools. Jurgen, I could care less whether you want to use this stuff. I could care less whether you love hooking functions straight up to the event property. That is an option, and if that is the tool you choose to use, that is your business. I have explained to you why I don't touch that stuff, and why, when I have to take over an app where the previous developer uses that method it pains me greatly. I used to use it, don't get me wrong, it's just that there are tons of disadvantages and only one advantage, your "cut and paste" advantage. That "cut and paste" advantage isn't sufficient in my mind to overcome the disadvantages. In fact that advantage has been neatly replaced by Withevents in classes! You have a SINGLE function that you hook to a property, and you have a bunch of functions that you hook to a bunch of properties. I have a class that I pass a control to. I sink the events in that class, then call various functions of the class from those events. The results are similar, but not identical. I can for instance, turn on/off the behaviors using sysvars. My good friend William Hindman was using some stuff of mine and didn't like some specific things I was doing. I simply "switched it off" for him. Nothing more than "go in the sysvar table and set this sysvar = false. His system didn't use that behavior anymore. Try THAT with your method. A framework is waaaay more than just a function hooked to an event, or even a bunch of functions hooked to a bunch of events. It is a whole system that works together. My control classes talk to the form class. The form class loads SysVars that turn on and off functionality of the framework. I can override a given functionality for the entire application, or just for a given form in the application. The control classes "talk to" the form class and ask whether they should exhibit this behavior? The control class simply doesn't care whether the behavior is turned on / off for the entire application or just this form, all they care about is that they are supposed to exhibit the behavior THIS TIME, RIGHT NOW. Tomorrow the user might want the behavior and I go turn it on using a SysVar. TRY THAT with your "cut and paste" stuff!!! >Like Arthur, it looks to me like you write a great deal more code than >the one line each of us uses to hook a control to a common not in list procedure because you need to write and maintain the framework. You are 100% correct. I do write a whole lot more code than you do. In fact I write almost EXACTLY the same code you do, I just make it a part of a whole system rather than an isolated thing that happens. The "way more code" is the stuff required to tie it in and make it a system. When I design a form I don't "cut and paste" a bunch of controls so that they get hooked up properly. My form class loads control classes that hook everything up for me automatically. Whether I have one or a hundred combos on a form, every one can, if it needs it, have any of the various behaviors that the combo class provides. Why in the world would I go somewhere, "cut a control" and paste it in the form a hundred times? Furthermore I can take ANY form, load a form class in that form's Open and have all of my stuff just automatically applied to all of the controls on that form! All the combos suddenly know how to do combo stuff, all the text boxes suddenly know how to do text box stuff. If a given combo needs NotInList (and MANY don't), then a single line of code passes in the correct table / field / form for that combo to know how to do it. Try THAT with your "cut and paste" stuff! I seem to remember butting heads with you in the past. You were always about "the last ounce of (application) speed", and I simply don't care about that last ounce. I am more about speed of development and ease of maintenance. Your "cut and paste" does allow lightweight forms. I could care less. If that is what this is all about, I will hand you your "speed advantage" and you can walk away the winner. I will take my speed of development and ease of maintenance and I too will walk away a winner. I understand what you are doing, I have done it that way in the distant past. Listen to what I am trying to explain where frameworks are concerned, read it, UNDERSTAND it (ALL OF IT), and then if you still love your "cut and paste" stuff... "may the force be with you". And may I never have to maintain your apps! John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of J?rgen Welz Sent: Sunday, March 07, 2004 6:01 PM To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: RE: [AccessD] Your favorite control behavior Correct me if I'm mistaken, but my understanding is that a form has it's own class which you can multi instance in various ways and in which you can create property procedures and do any thing else one can do in a class of your own. It sounds not like you are creating a form class but a separate class to shadow the form class. The downside is needing to know the name of a control in order to be able to operate with it. The advantage of hooking up all default behaviors with a function is that you can pass the procedure a reference to the actual control for which the event is triggered so there is no need for collections or code to run on the form open event. Every copy/paste of a control is automatically hooked up to the standard events without ever writing any code except the single function procedures that all copies of the control trigger. You can override the 'inherited' behaviour by changing the function, writing a specific event procedure or passing in one or more additional optional parameters. Correct me again if I'm mistaken, but this facility to hook up events has been around since Access 1 whereas WithEvents is somewhat newer and more esoteric and less universally understood or used. I suspect that developers coming from a Visual Basic background are less familiar with the advantages of this approach, particularly when they bemoan the lack of control arrays. I suspect this facility is the reason that control arrays were never needed in Access. Like Arthur, it looks to me like you write a great deal more code than the one line each of us uses to hook a contol to a common not in list procedure because you need to write and maintain the framework. Ciao J?rgen Welz Edmonton, Alberta jwelz at hotmail.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com IMPORTANT - PLEASE READ ******************** This email and any files transmitted with it are confidential and may contain information protected by law from disclosure. If you have received this message in error, please notify the sender immediately and delete this email from your system. No warranty is given that this email or files, if attached to this email, are free from computer viruses or other defects. They are provided on the basis the user assumes all responsibility for loss, damage or consequence resulting directly or indirectly from their use, whether caused by the negligence of the sender or not. -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From artful at rogers.com Tue Mar 9 13:51:48 2004 From: artful at rogers.com (Arthur Fuller) Date: Tue, 9 Mar 2004 11:51:48 -0800 Subject: [AccessD] Framework Discussion - Questions and answers In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <000101c4060f$f5aa20a0$6501a8c0@rock> How do I get Penelope Cruz to sleep with me? -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of John W. Colby Sent: Tuesday, March 09, 2004 3:36 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: [AccessD] Framework Discussion - Questions and answers If anyone has any questions please feel free to post them. I will answer to the best of my abilities. John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com From cfoust at infostatsystems.com Tue Mar 9 12:02:47 2004 From: cfoust at infostatsystems.com (Charlotte Foust) Date: Tue, 9 Mar 2004 10:02:47 -0800 Subject: [AccessD] OT - Framework Discussion - Questions and answers Message-ID: Shouldn't that be an OT question? Besides, from press writeups, it doesn't sound like too difficult a problem. Have you tried on-line help? Charlotte Foust -----Original Message----- From: Arthur Fuller [mailto:artful at rogers.com] Sent: Tuesday, March 09, 2004 11:52 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: [AccessD] Framework Discussion - Questions and answers How do I get Penelope Cruz to sleep with me? -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of John W. Colby Sent: Tuesday, March 09, 2004 3:36 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: [AccessD] Framework Discussion - Questions and answers If anyone has any questions please feel free to post them. I will answer to the best of my abilities. John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From jmhla at earthlink.net Tue Mar 9 14:19:27 2004 From: jmhla at earthlink.net (jmhla at earthlink.net) Date: Tue, 9 Mar 2004 15:19:27 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] OT - Framework Discussion - Questions and answers Message-ID: <29950-22004329201927956@M2W044.mail2web.com> If me and Penolpe break up I will let the list know. Bigger VBG Original Message: ----------------- From: Charlotte Foust cfoust at infostatsystems.com Date: Tue, 9 Mar 2004 10:02:47 -0800 To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: RE: [AccessD] OT - Framework Discussion - Questions and answers Shouldn't that be an OT question? Besides, from press writeups, it doesn't sound like too difficult a problem. Have you tried on-line help? Charlotte Foust -----Original Message----- From: Arthur Fuller [mailto:artful at rogers.com] Sent: Tuesday, March 09, 2004 11:52 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: [AccessD] Framework Discussion - Questions and answers How do I get Penelope Cruz to sleep with me? -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of John W. Colby Sent: Tuesday, March 09, 2004 3:36 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: [AccessD] Framework Discussion - Questions and answers If anyone has any questions please feel free to post them. I will answer to the best of my abilities. John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -------------------------------------------------------------------- mail2web - Check your email from the web at http://mail2web.com/ . From Philippe.Pons19 at wanadoo.fr Tue Mar 9 14:17:52 2004 From: Philippe.Pons19 at wanadoo.fr (Philippe Pons) Date: Tue, 9 Mar 2004 21:17:52 +0100 Subject: [AccessD] Framework Discussion - Questions and answers References: <000101c4060f$f5aa20a0$6501a8c0@rock> Message-ID: <000701c40613$a12f3f70$0100a8c0@linceow2000pro> Tu lui chantes: "Voulez vous coucher avec moi, ce soir?" and the magic could occur! Philippe ----- Original Message ----- From: "Arthur Fuller" To: "'Access Developers discussion and problem solving'" Sent: Tuesday, March 09, 2004 8:51 PM Subject: RE: [AccessD] Framework Discussion - Questions and answers > How do I get Penelope Cruz to sleep with me? > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of John W. Colby > Sent: Tuesday, March 09, 2004 3:36 AM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: [AccessD] Framework Discussion - Questions and answers > > > If anyone has any questions please feel free to post them. I will > answer to the best of my abilities. > > John W. Colby > www.ColbyConsulting.com > > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From KIsmert at TexasSystems.com Tue Mar 9 14:38:23 2004 From: KIsmert at TexasSystems.com (Ken Ismert) Date: Tue, 9 Mar 2004 14:38:23 -0600 Subject: [AccessD] Framework Discussion - Who's following this In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <002c01c40616$77ba1ef0$2a3ca8c0@TEXASSYSTEMS.COM> 1. a 2. a 3. a Three suggested guidelines for frameworks: * Simplicity drives adoption. No matter how complex the framework becomes, if it is made of small, easy-to-validate parts, it will tend to be reliable and maintainable. Well-factored code, careful choice of object boundaries, and attention to naming makes the framework easier to understand and use. * Define boundaries. No matter how well thought-out and abstracted a framework is, perfect generalization is elusive. Deciding what the framework will and won't do beforehand guides development, and helps keep feature bloat from delaying a timely finish. * Accept the limitations of your platform. Frameworks can't make up for system shortcomings. If VB doesn't shutdown an application opened through automation when you set its reference to nothing, there is nothing within the system that you can do to fundamentally fix it. You can write standard handlers for such situations, but you can't force the user of the framework to use them. In cases like this, education is the best approach. Write code that is spare, obvious and well thought out, like Shaker or Biedermeier furniture. -Ken From donald.a.Mcgillivray at mail.sprint.com Tue Mar 9 15:03:08 2004 From: donald.a.Mcgillivray at mail.sprint.com (Mcgillivray, Donald [ITS]) Date: Tue, 9 Mar 2004 15:03:08 -0600 Subject: [AccessD] Framework Discussion - Questions and answers Message-ID: <6FC1C7A6E7BD5540AB0A8436713C43BF07573BD3@PKDWB01C.ad.sprint.com> If I may deviate from the course this thread has taken . . . ;o) John, Your classes contain Init and Term methods and in addition dclsFrm includes Class_Initialize and Class_Terminate methods. If you have covered this already, please bear with me as I struggle to get my head around the basics, but are the latter "special" methods automatically invoked whenever the class is instantiated and destroyed? If so, why not simply embed the Init and Term functionality in them and be done with it. Thanks again for the generous contribution of your time and effort to our further understanding of these concepts. This list is the greatest thanks to contributions from folks like you. Don McGillivray -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Philippe Pons Sent: Tuesday, March 09, 2004 12:18 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Framework Discussion - Questions and answers Tu lui chantes: "Voulez vous coucher avec moi, ce soir?" and the magic could occur! Philippe ----- Original Message ----- From: "Arthur Fuller" To: "'Access Developers discussion and problem solving'" Sent: Tuesday, March 09, 2004 8:51 PM Subject: RE: [AccessD] Framework Discussion - Questions and answers > How do I get Penelope Cruz to sleep with me? > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of John W. > Colby > Sent: Tuesday, March 09, 2004 3:36 AM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: [AccessD] Framework Discussion - Questions and answers > > > If anyone has any questions please feel free to post them. I will > answer to the best of my abilities. > > John W. Colby > www.ColbyConsulting.com > > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From jarus at amerinet-gpo.com Tue Mar 9 15:15:20 2004 From: jarus at amerinet-gpo.com (Terri Jarus) Date: Tue, 09 Mar 2004 15:15:20 -0600 Subject: [AccessD] Total Access Memo (AXP) Message-ID: Anyone had any success working with this software to "export" to Word documents? I just bought this software and am a little disappointed in the way it works regarding MS Word. I wanted to be able to use automation to create really nice Word reports, but have hit a stumbling block. I read the FAQs and the bulletin board and they stand pretty pat on the solution - which is to basically "cut and paste" via code from Access to Word. I've got the code in place but am still a little uncertain how to get the info into Word via automation. If anyone has a little time to spare to point me in the right direction or assist me in setting this up properly, please let me know. I have a Word template setup and my code is basically written except for those fields that are TAM fields. TIA, Terri Jarus Director, Contract Support Services jarus at amerinet-gpo.com 314-542-1902 --------------------------------------------------------------------------- This email and any files transmitted with it are confidential and intended solely for the use of the individuals or entities to whom they are addressed. If you have received this email in error please return it to the sender, and erase any copies thereof. Copyright 2004 Amerinet 1nc. From cfoust at infostatsystems.com Tue Mar 9 15:59:50 2004 From: cfoust at infostatsystems.com (Charlotte Foust) Date: Tue, 9 Mar 2004 13:59:50 -0800 Subject: [AccessD] Framework Discussion - Questions and answers Message-ID: ROTFLMAO Charlotte Foust -----Original Message----- From: Philippe Pons [mailto:Philippe.Pons19 at wanadoo.fr] Sent: Tuesday, March 09, 2004 12:18 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Framework Discussion - Questions and answers Tu lui chantes: "Voulez vous coucher avec moi, ce soir?" and the magic could occur! Philippe ----- Original Message ----- From: "Arthur Fuller" To: "'Access Developers discussion and problem solving'" Sent: Tuesday, March 09, 2004 8:51 PM Subject: RE: [AccessD] Framework Discussion - Questions and answers > How do I get Penelope Cruz to sleep with me? > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of John W. > Colby > Sent: Tuesday, March 09, 2004 3:36 AM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: [AccessD] Framework Discussion - Questions and answers > > > If anyone has any questions please feel free to post them. I will > answer to the best of my abilities. > > John W. Colby > www.ColbyConsulting.com > > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From accessd at shaw.ca Tue Mar 9 19:57:58 2004 From: accessd at shaw.ca (Jim Lawrence (AccessD)) Date: Tue, 09 Mar 2004 17:57:58 -0800 Subject: OT: RE: [AccessD] Framework Discussion - Questions and answers In-Reply-To: Message-ID: John: Don't you mean 'just hire the world's best marketing team.' The designers of the 'stair-master' made a fortune. My two cents worth Jim -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of John W. Colby Sent: Tuesday, March 09, 2004 4:23 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] Framework Discussion - Questions and answers Invent a better moustrap and hire the world's best marketing team. John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Erwin Craps - IT Helps Sent: Tuesday, March 09, 2004 6:54 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] Framework Discussion - Questions and answers John I have a question. How do I get very rich in a short time and honest way? :-) Erwin -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of John W. Colby Sent: Tuesday, March 09, 2004 12:36 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: [AccessD] Framework Discussion - Questions and answers If anyone has any questions please feel free to post them. I will answer to the best of my abilities. John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From markamatte at hotmail.com Tue Mar 9 20:58:28 2004 From: markamatte at hotmail.com (Mark A Matte) Date: Wed, 10 Mar 2004 02:58:28 +0000 Subject: [AccessD] Combo on Continuous Form Message-ID: Hello, In A2k I want a combo box on a each row of the continuous form that filters by the current record on that continuous form. Suggestions anyone? Thanks, Mark _________________________________________________________________ Get business advice and resources to improve your work life, from bCentral. http://special.msn.com/bcentral/loudclear.armx From jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com Tue Mar 9 21:08:47 2004 From: jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com (John W. Colby) Date: Tue, 9 Mar 2004 22:08:47 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Framework Discussion - Questions and answers In-Reply-To: <6FC1C7A6E7BD5540AB0A8436713C43BF07573BD3@PKDWB01C.ad.sprint.com> Message-ID: Don, Initialize and Terminate are the only two built in event sinks of the class. This means that these events fire and the code in these subs run regardless of anything else. Initialize runs before anything else in the class, and Terminate runs immediately as the last pointer to the class is set to nothing. Init() and Term() are METHODS of the class, not events. They can be called by code after the class is instantiated. Because Initialize() runs before anything else occurs there is no way for us to pass parameters in to it. Init() is just a method like any other and I can specify any parameters I want, and then pass in to the class things that it routinely needs to have to function. In fact I choose the name Init, it is a method I write and I could just as easily name it JCsSpecialInitialization() if I so desired. Obviously we need standard practices so if I need to pass in parameters to a class I always use the name Init() as the function for that purpose. If I need to cleanup, and that cleanup needs to be available from outside the class, I use Term() as the function name. Typically I use Initialize to initialize things like classes and collections. For example: dim mcolControls as collection The dim simply reserves a variable for the collection, it doesn't make it useable. To do that we need a set statement: set mcolControls = new Collection. I will almost always put that set statement in the Initialize event so that a) it is always initialized b) I can go one place to find all set statements for objects in the class' header On the other hand I almost always place all of my cleanup of these objects (set mcolControls = nothing) in my term and call term from Terminate. I do that because: a) I almost always call Terminate from outside the class but... b) if for some reason the last pointer to the class is just set to nothing "accidentally" term will still run because Terminate will fire. Did all that make sense? John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Mcgillivray, Donald [ITS] Sent: Tuesday, March 09, 2004 4:03 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] Framework Discussion - Questions and answers If I may deviate from the course this thread has taken . . . ;o) John, Your classes contain Init and Term methods and in addition dclsFrm includes Class_Initialize and Class_Terminate methods. If you have covered this already, please bear with me as I struggle to get my head around the basics, but are the latter "special" methods automatically invoked whenever the class is instantiated and destroyed? If so, why not simply embed the Init and Term functionality in them and be done with it. Thanks again for the generous contribution of your time and effort to our further understanding of these concepts. This list is the greatest thanks to contributions from folks like you. Don McGillivray -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Philippe Pons Sent: Tuesday, March 09, 2004 12:18 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Framework Discussion - Questions and answers Tu lui chantes: "Voulez vous coucher avec moi, ce soir?" and the magic could occur! Philippe ----- Original Message ----- From: "Arthur Fuller" To: "'Access Developers discussion and problem solving'" Sent: Tuesday, March 09, 2004 8:51 PM Subject: RE: [AccessD] Framework Discussion - Questions and answers > How do I get Penelope Cruz to sleep with me? > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of John W. > Colby > Sent: Tuesday, March 09, 2004 3:36 AM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: [AccessD] Framework Discussion - Questions and answers > > > If anyone has any questions please feel free to post them. I will > answer to the best of my abilities. > > John W. Colby > www.ColbyConsulting.com > > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com Tue Mar 9 21:23:08 2004 From: jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com (John W. Colby) Date: Tue, 9 Mar 2004 22:23:08 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Framework Discussion - Who's following this In-Reply-To: <002c01c40616$77ba1ef0$2a3ca8c0@TEXASSYSTEMS.COM> Message-ID: Ken, >Deciding what the framework will and won't do beforehand guides development, and helps keep feature bloat from delaying a timely finish. Yea... in a perfect world. Unfortunately for most of us a framework is not a project which we spec out and write, but rather a living entity that we add functionality to on a weekly basis. Thus feature bloat is an inherent part of doing business, and there is never a finish, much less a timely one! ;-) >Write code that is spare, obvious and well thought out, like Shaker or Biedermeier furniture. And never reference things like Biedermeier furniture without copious comments as to what the heck it might be. >Accept the limitations of your platform. Frameworks can't make up for system shortcomings. I understand what you are saying (and your example is a perfect one), however I think it is important to NEVER accept the limitations of your platform. Much of what my framework does is nothing more than an attempt by me to program around the limitations of Access. To the degree that I succeed, I make myself (or my framework) more valuable to my client. If I fail to make the attempt then I end up just another developer, building just another app, with nothing to differentiate me from the next guy to walk in the door. furthermore: * Comment, comment, comment! * Use conventions. There are many levels to conventions from object naming, to interfaces between objects, to systems for troubleshooting, to the way forms and controls behave across the application. Develop them and then apply them consistently. There is nothing more frustrating to a user than an application where behaviors like NotInList work here but a bizarre Access error message pops up over there. Thanks for your input Ken, I am hoping to get more people with your level of expertise to pipe up with their collective wisdom. John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Ken Ismert Sent: Tuesday, March 09, 2004 3:38 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: [AccessD] Framework Discussion - Who's following this 1. a 2. a 3. a Three suggested guidelines for frameworks: * Simplicity drives adoption. No matter how complex the framework becomes, if it is made of small, easy-to-validate parts, it will tend to be reliable and maintainable. Well-factored code, careful choice of object boundaries, and attention to naming makes the framework easier to understand and use. * Define boundaries. No matter how well thought-out and abstracted a framework is, perfect generalization is elusive. Deciding what the framework will and won't do beforehand guides development, and helps keep feature bloat from delaying a timely finish. * Accept the limitations of your platform. Frameworks can't make up for system shortcomings. If VB doesn't shutdown an application opened through automation when you set its reference to nothing, there is nothing within the system that you can do to fundamentally fix it. You can write standard handlers for such situations, but you can't force the user of the framework to use them. In cases like this, education is the best approach. Write code that is spare, obvious and well thought out, like Shaker or Biedermeier furniture. -Ken -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From jwelz at hotmail.com Tue Mar 9 22:10:58 2004 From: jwelz at hotmail.com (Jürgen Welz) Date: Tue, 09 Mar 2004 21:10:58 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] Combo on Continuous Form Message-ID: As long as you're not using multiple instances of your continuous form you can set the rowsource of the combo with a where clause referencing the Forms.FormName.FilterControlName. The reason it doesn't work with multiple instances is you need the absolute form reference. There are workarounds to the mulit instance issue but they are not convenient. Ciao J?rgen Welz Edmonton, Alberta jwelz at hotmail.com >From: "Mark A Matte" >Hello, > >In A2k I want a combo box on a each row of the continuous form that filters >by the current record on that continuous form. Suggestions anyone? > >Thanks, > >Mark > >_________________________________________________________________ >Get business advice and resources to improve your work life, from bCentral. >http://special.msn.com/bcentral/loudclear.armx > >-- >_______________________________________________ >AccessD mailing list >AccessD at databaseadvisors.com >http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd >Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com _________________________________________________________________ Tired of spam? Get advanced junk mail protection with MSN Premium http://join.msn.com/?pgmarket=en-ca&page=byoa/prem&xAPID=1994&DI=1034&SU=http://hotmail.com/enca&HL=Market_MSNIS_Taglines From markamatte at hotmail.com Tue Mar 9 22:42:13 2004 From: markamatte at hotmail.com (Mark A Matte) Date: Wed, 10 Mar 2004 04:42:13 +0000 Subject: [AccessD] Combo on Continuous Form Message-ID: J?rgen, If by multiple instances...you mean same combo appearing on each row/record...then yes...this is what I am trying to accomplish. Thanks, Mark >From: "J?rgen Welz" >Reply-To: Access Developers discussion and problem >solving >To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com >Subject: RE: [AccessD] Combo on Continuous Form >Date: Tue, 09 Mar 2004 21:10:58 -0700 > >As long as you're not using multiple instances of your continuous form you >can set the rowsource of the combo with a where clause referencing the >Forms.FormName.FilterControlName. The reason it doesn't work with multiple >instances is you need the absolute form reference. There are workarounds >to the mulit instance issue but they are not convenient. > > > >Ciao >J?rgen Welz >Edmonton, Alberta >jwelz at hotmail.com > > > > > >>From: "Mark A Matte" >>Hello, >> >>In A2k I want a combo box on a each row of the continuous form that >>filters by the current record on that continuous form. Suggestions >>anyone? >> >>Thanks, >> >>Mark >> >>_________________________________________________________________ >>Get business advice and resources to improve your work life, from >>bCentral. http://special.msn.com/bcentral/loudclear.armx >> >>-- >>_______________________________________________ >>AccessD mailing list >>AccessD at databaseadvisors.com >>http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd >>Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > >_________________________________________________________________ >Tired of spam? Get advanced junk mail protection with MSN Premium >http://join.msn.com/?pgmarket=en-ca&page=byoa/prem&xAPID=1994&DI=1034&SU=http://hotmail.com/enca&HL=Market_MSNIS_Taglines > >-- >_______________________________________________ >AccessD mailing list >AccessD at databaseadvisors.com >http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd >Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com _________________________________________________________________ Create a Job Alert on MSN Careers and enter for a chance to win $1000! http://msn.careerbuilder.com/promo/kaday.htm?siteid=CBMSN_1K&sc_extcmp=JS_JASweep_MSNHotm2 From jwelz at hotmail.com Wed Mar 10 00:17:49 2004 From: jwelz at hotmail.com (Jürgen Welz) Date: Tue, 09 Mar 2004 23:17:49 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] Combo on Continuous Form Message-ID: Acutally I meant multiple instances of the entire form. It's been a while since I did this. Last time I used a textbox control over a combo hiding everything but the dropdown arrow. In the gotfocus event of the textbox I hid the textbox and dropped the combo. In the lost focus I unhid the textbox. This was a bit unnerving in that the values in all the rows would be identical while the combo had focus but it worked fairly well. I recall seeing a less kludgy solution but can't remember exactly where. I just tried moving a separate form sized as a combo to the coordinates of the active control but Access does not accurately report the top position of the control in the current row of a continuous form. This is one of the places where an unbound grid of display controls comes into its own and this is the manner in which I handled this kind of thing more recently. It's a lot of code to build a scrollable grid of display controls. Ciao J?rgen Welz Edmonton, Alberta jwelz at hotmail.com >From: "Mark A Matte" >Reply-To: Access Developers discussion and problem >solving >To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com >Subject: RE: [AccessD] Combo on Continuous Form >Date: Wed, 10 Mar 2004 04:42:13 +0000 >MIME-Version: 1.0 >X-Originating-IP: [24.167.155.76] >X-Originating-Email: [markamatte at hotmail.com] >X-Sender: markamatte at hotmail.com >Received: from mc12-f22.hotmail.com ([65.54.167.158]) by >mc12-s11.hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC(5.0.2195.6824); Tue, 9 Mar 2004 >20:43:05 -0800 >Received: from databaseadvisors.com ([209.135.140.44]) by >mc12-f22.hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC(5.0.2195.6824); Tue, 9 Mar 2004 >20:43:05 -0800 >Received: from databaseadvisors.com (databaseadvisors.com >[209.135.140.44])by databaseadvisors.com (8.11.6/8.11.6) with ESMTP id >i2A4gBM08877;Tue, 9 Mar 2004 22:42:11 -0600 >Received: from hotmail.com (bay1-f111.bay1.hotmail.com [65.54.245.111])by >databaseadvisors.com (8.11.6/8.11.6) with ESMTP id i2A4g7M08825for >; Tue, 9 Mar 2004 22:42:07 -0600 >Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft >SMTPSVC;Tue, 9 Mar 2004 20:42:13 -0800 >Received: from 24.167.155.76 by by1fd.bay1.hotmail.msn.com with HTTP;Wed, >10 Mar 2004 04:42:13 GMT >X-Message-Info: jl7Vrt/mfsrUVeJNP+9RdguElqSJX66F >Message-ID: >X-OriginalArrivalTime: 10 Mar 2004 04:42:13.0964 >(UTC)FILETIME=[0EE098C0:01C4065A] >X-BeenThere: accessd at databaseadvisors.com >X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.4 >Precedence: list >List-Id: Access Developers discussion and problem >solving >List-Help: >List-Post: >List-Subscribe: >, >List-Archive: >List-Unsubscribe: >, >Errors-To: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com >Return-Path: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > >J?rgen, > >If by multiple instances...you mean same combo appearing on each >row/record...then yes...this is what I am trying to accomplish. > >Thanks, > >Mark > > >>From: "J?rgen Welz" >>Reply-To: Access Developers discussion and problem >>solving >>To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com >>Subject: RE: [AccessD] Combo on Continuous Form >>Date: Tue, 09 Mar 2004 21:10:58 -0700 >> >>As long as you're not using multiple instances of your continuous form you >>can set the rowsource of the combo with a where clause referencing the >>Forms.FormName.FilterControlName. The reason it doesn't work with >>multiple instances is you need the absolute form reference. There are >>workarounds to the mulit instance issue but they are not convenient. >> >> >> >>Ciao >>J?rgen Welz >>Edmonton, Alberta >>jwelz at hotmail.com >> >> >> >> >> >>>From: "Mark A Matte" >>>Hello, >>> >>>In A2k I want a combo box on a each row of the continuous form that >>>filters by the current record on that continuous form. Suggestions >>>anyone? >>> >>>Thanks, >>> >>>Mark >>> >>>_________________________________________________________________ >>>Get business advice and resources to improve your work life, from >>>bCentral. http://special.msn.com/bcentral/loudclear.armx >>> >>>-- >>>_______________________________________________ >>>AccessD mailing list >>>AccessD at databaseadvisors.com >>>http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd >>>Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com >> >>_________________________________________________________________ >>Tired of spam? Get advanced junk mail protection with MSN Premium >>http://join.msn.com/?pgmarket=en-ca&page=byoa/prem&xAPID=1994&DI=1034&SU=http://hotmail.com/enca&HL=Market_MSNIS_Taglines >> >>-- >>_______________________________________________ >>AccessD mailing list >>AccessD at databaseadvisors.com >>http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd >>Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > >_________________________________________________________________ >Create a Job Alert on MSN Careers and enter for a chance to win $1000! >http://msn.careerbuilder.com/promo/kaday.htm?siteid=CBMSN_1K&sc_extcmp=JS_JASweep_MSNHotm2 > >-- >_______________________________________________ >AccessD mailing list >AccessD at databaseadvisors.com >http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd >Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com _________________________________________________________________ Add photos to your e-mail with MSN Premium. Get 2 months FREE* http://join.msn.com/?pgmarket=en-ca&page=byoa/prem&xAPID=1994&DI=1034&SU=http://hotmail.com/enca&HL=Market_MSNIS_Taglines From jwelz at hotmail.com Wed Mar 10 00:33:33 2004 From: jwelz at hotmail.com (Jürgen Welz) Date: Tue, 09 Mar 2004 23:33:33 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] Your favorite control behavior Message-ID: Getting back to my favorite control behavior: I like list boxes to have a clickable heading that toggles sort direction over each column in the list. For multi select list boxes, I like to have label buttons at the bottom for selecting All, None or Inverting the selection. I build these as subforms receiving property settings from the parent form as to the number of columns, the column widths and the rowsource. These subform lists resize themselves to the size of the subform allotted them on the parent form. The clickable sort/select buttons are always labels that appear depressed on mouse down and raised on mouse up. I also move a small graphic arrow indicating the sort direction and which column is currently sorted on top of the label clicked on. Using a label to receive the click prevents focus from moving from the list or the parent form. I change the itemdata property of the graphic to indicate the sort direction. The concept looks a lot like the sorting in Outlook and some versions of windows explorer and the users immediately grasp the significance. As I don't like to requery to fill these lists by direction, I always like to use arrays as a rowsource and only requery when the list data has changed. (It has always been my contention that I'd rather run a line of code than retrieve a bit over a LAN as the code executes faster than bits can travel). I have been using disconnected data wherever possible, even in Access 97, and sorting arrays rather than retrieving recordsets sorted one way and then another and this approach has nearly always been applied to my sortable lists. Ciao J?rgen Welz Edmonton, Alberta jwelz at hotmail.com _________________________________________________________________ MSN Premium includes powerful parental controls and get 2 months FREE* http://join.msn.com/?pgmarket=en-ca&page=byoa/prem&xAPID=1994&DI=1034&SU=http://hotmail.com/enca&HL=Market_MSNIS_Taglines From accessd at shaw.ca Wed Mar 10 04:30:42 2004 From: accessd at shaw.ca (Jim Lawrence (AccessD)) Date: Wed, 10 Mar 2004 02:30:42 -0800 Subject: [AccessD] Combo on Continuous Form In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Something like what you have to do to create a muti-field combo box in VB? Jim -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of J?rgen Welz Sent: Tuesday, March 09, 2004 10:18 PM To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: RE: [AccessD] Combo on Continuous Form Acutally I meant multiple instances of the entire form. It's been a while since I did this. Last time I used a textbox control over a combo hiding everything but the dropdown arrow. In the gotfocus event of the textbox I hid the textbox and dropped the combo. In the lost focus I unhid the textbox. This was a bit unnerving in that the values in all the rows would be identical while the combo had focus but it worked fairly well. I recall seeing a less kludgy solution but can't remember exactly where. I just tried moving a separate form sized as a combo to the coordinates of the active control but Access does not accurately report the top position of the control in the current row of a continuous form. This is one of the places where an unbound grid of display controls comes into its own and this is the manner in which I handled this kind of thing more recently. It's a lot of code to build a scrollable grid of display controls. Ciao J?rgen Welz Edmonton, Alberta jwelz at hotmail.com >From: "Mark A Matte" >Reply-To: Access Developers discussion and problem >solving >To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com >Subject: RE: [AccessD] Combo on Continuous Form >Date: Wed, 10 Mar 2004 04:42:13 +0000 >MIME-Version: 1.0 >X-Originating-IP: [24.167.155.76] >X-Originating-Email: [markamatte at hotmail.com] >X-Sender: markamatte at hotmail.com >Received: from mc12-f22.hotmail.com ([65.54.167.158]) by >mc12-s11.hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC(5.0.2195.6824); Tue, 9 Mar 2004 >20:43:05 -0800 >Received: from databaseadvisors.com ([209.135.140.44]) by >mc12-f22.hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC(5.0.2195.6824); Tue, 9 Mar 2004 >20:43:05 -0800 >Received: from databaseadvisors.com (databaseadvisors.com >[209.135.140.44])by databaseadvisors.com (8.11.6/8.11.6) with ESMTP id >i2A4gBM08877;Tue, 9 Mar 2004 22:42:11 -0600 >Received: from hotmail.com (bay1-f111.bay1.hotmail.com [65.54.245.111])by >databaseadvisors.com (8.11.6/8.11.6) with ESMTP id i2A4g7M08825for >; Tue, 9 Mar 2004 22:42:07 -0600 >Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft >SMTPSVC;Tue, 9 Mar 2004 20:42:13 -0800 >Received: from 24.167.155.76 by by1fd.bay1.hotmail.msn.com with HTTP;Wed, >10 Mar 2004 04:42:13 GMT >X-Message-Info: jl7Vrt/mfsrUVeJNP+9RdguElqSJX66F >Message-ID: >X-OriginalArrivalTime: 10 Mar 2004 04:42:13.0964 >(UTC)FILETIME=[0EE098C0:01C4065A] >X-BeenThere: accessd at databaseadvisors.com >X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.4 >Precedence: list >List-Id: Access Developers discussion and problem >solving >List-Help: >List-Post: >List-Subscribe: >, >List-Archive: >List-Unsubscribe: >, >Errors-To: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com >Return-Path: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > >J?rgen, > >If by multiple instances...you mean same combo appearing on each >row/record...then yes...this is what I am trying to accomplish. > >Thanks, > >Mark > > >>From: "J?rgen Welz" >>Reply-To: Access Developers discussion and problem >>solving >>To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com >>Subject: RE: [AccessD] Combo on Continuous Form >>Date: Tue, 09 Mar 2004 21:10:58 -0700 >> >>As long as you're not using multiple instances of your continuous form you >>can set the rowsource of the combo with a where clause referencing the >>Forms.FormName.FilterControlName. The reason it doesn't work with >>multiple instances is you need the absolute form reference. There are >>workarounds to the mulit instance issue but they are not convenient. >> >> >> >>Ciao >>J?rgen Welz >>Edmonton, Alberta >>jwelz at hotmail.com >> >> >> >> >> >>>From: "Mark A Matte" >>>Hello, >>> >>>In A2k I want a combo box on a each row of the continuous form that >>>filters by the current record on that continuous form. Suggestions >>>anyone? >>> >>>Thanks, >>> >>>Mark >>> >>>_________________________________________________________________ >>>Get business advice and resources to improve your work life, from >>>bCentral. http://special.msn.com/bcentral/loudclear.armx >>> >>>-- >>>_______________________________________________ >>>AccessD mailing list >>>AccessD at databaseadvisors.com >>>http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd >>>Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com >> >>_________________________________________________________________ >>Tired of spam? Get advanced junk mail protection with MSN Premium >>http://join.msn.com/?pgmarket=en-ca&page=byoa/prem&xAPID=1994&DI=1034&SU=h ttp://hotmail.com/enca&HL=Market_MSNIS_Taglines >> >>-- >>_______________________________________________ >>AccessD mailing list >>AccessD at databaseadvisors.com >>http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd >>Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > >_________________________________________________________________ >Create a Job Alert on MSN Careers and enter for a chance to win $1000! >http://msn.careerbuilder.com/promo/kaday.htm?siteid=CBMSN_1K&sc_extcmp=JS_J ASweep_MSNHotm2 > >-- >_______________________________________________ >AccessD mailing list >AccessD at databaseadvisors.com >http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd >Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com _________________________________________________________________ Add photos to your e-mail with MSN Premium. Get 2 months FREE* http://join.msn.com/?pgmarket=en-ca&page=byoa/prem&xAPID=1994&DI=1034&SU=htt p://hotmail.com/enca&HL=Market_MSNIS_Taglines -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From accessd667 at yahoo.com Wed Mar 10 05:15:17 2004 From: accessd667 at yahoo.com (S D) Date: Wed, 10 Mar 2004 03:15:17 -0800 (PST) Subject: [AccessD] Setting/ retrieving Field properties? Message-ID: <20040310111517.21722.qmail@web61109.mail.yahoo.com> Hi group, I need to set the field properties of a lot of tables. I want to do this using VBA. I was reading Access 2000 Developers Handbook and I found the code printed below. However these are not the properties I expected. I need to set field properties like: Fiel Size Required Allow Zerow Length Any idea how I can do this? TIA Sander Private Sub Command0_Click() Dim db As DAO.Database Dim intI As Integer Dim tdf As DAO.TableDef Set db = CurrentDb() For intI = 0 To db.TableDefs.Count - 1 Set tdf = db.TableDefs(intI) If tdf.Name = "V3_44_RSDTD1" Then Debug.Print "Printing properties for table: " & tdf.Name Call ListTableProps(tdf.Name) MsgBox "Properties listed!" End If Next intI MsgBox "Done! Tables found: " & intI End Sub Sub ListTableProps(strTable As String) Dim db As Database Dim tdf As TableDef Dim prp As DAO.Property Set db = CurrentDb() Set tdf = db(strTable) For Each prp In tdf.Properties Debug.Print prp.Name, prp.Type, prp.Value Next prp End Sub --------------------------------- Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Search - Find what you?re looking for faster. From jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com Wed Mar 10 05:37:29 2004 From: jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com (John W. Colby) Date: Wed, 10 Mar 2004 06:37:29 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Your favorite control behavior In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Jurgen, Great ideas. I've been looking at clickable header sort dir methods for awhile. One question, how do you determine that a lists data source has changed? This one has always bugged me since Access has nothing built in to tell the developer that the data in a table has changed, and certainly not for data changes from workstation to workstation. John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of J?rgen Welz Sent: Wednesday, March 10, 2004 1:34 AM To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: RE: [AccessD] Your favorite control behavior Getting back to my favorite control behavior: I like list boxes to have a clickable heading that toggles sort direction over each column in the list. For multi select list boxes, I like to have label buttons at the bottom for selecting All, None or Inverting the selection. I build these as subforms receiving property settings from the parent form as to the number of columns, the column widths and the rowsource. These subform lists resize themselves to the size of the subform allotted them on the parent form. The clickable sort/select buttons are always labels that appear depressed on mouse down and raised on mouse up. I also move a small graphic arrow indicating the sort direction and which column is currently sorted on top of the label clicked on. Using a label to receive the click prevents focus from moving from the list or the parent form. I change the itemdata property of the graphic to indicate the sort direction. The concept looks a lot like the sorting in Outlook and some versions of windows explorer and the users immediately grasp the significance. As I don't like to requery to fill these lists by direction, I always like to use arrays as a rowsource and only requery when the list data has changed. (It has always been my contention that I'd rather run a line of code than retrieve a bit over a LAN as the code executes faster than bits can travel). I have been using disconnected data wherever possible, even in Access 97, and sorting arrays rather than retrieving recordsets sorted one way and then another and this approach has nearly always been applied to my sortable lists. Ciao J?rgen Welz Edmonton, Alberta jwelz at hotmail.com _________________________________________________________________ MSN Premium includes powerful parental controls and get 2 months FREE* http://join.msn.com/?pgmarket=en-ca&page=byoa/prem&xAPID=1994&DI=1034&SU=htt p://hotmail.com/enca&HL=Market_MSNIS_Taglines -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From michael.broesdorf at web.de Wed Mar 10 07:41:31 2004 From: michael.broesdorf at web.de (=?iso-8859-1?Q?Michael_Br=F6sdorf?=) Date: Wed, 10 Mar 2004 14:41:31 +0100 Subject: [AccessD] PivotTable-view not working In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Dear group, for testing purposes I installed Access 2003 on a machine that already has Access 2000 and Access 2002 installed. I wanted to play around with the PivotTable-view, but everytime I try to switch to that view, an error message pops up telling me that this feature isn't installed. But I could not find any options for pivoting in the setup programm. I just installed Access 2003 and VBA from an Office 2003 Professional CDROM. Which Office-component needs to be installed so that the pivot table view works? TIA, Michael From jimdettman at earthlink.net Wed Mar 10 08:12:23 2004 From: jimdettman at earthlink.net (Jim Dettman) Date: Wed, 10 Mar 2004 09:12:23 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Your favorite control behavior In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <<>When it comes to subform tabbing you can store the tab index (me.parent.tabindex), do a one time write of cursor navigation code for the subform (for continuous forms for example) and at EOF, iterate the parent's control's tab index properties and set focus to the next one so the user doesn't know he was ever in a subform. Sounds like one for the framework! Thanks.>> Some code below that might help get that started. This is really old code (A2 days) so no comments on the style or the sendkeys use. Jim Dettman President, Online Computer Services of WNY, Inc. (315) 699-3443 jimdettman at earthlink.net Sub SubFormNavigate(ByVal wKeyCode As Integer, ByVal wShift As Integer, Frm As Form, strParam As String) ' Receives : KeyCode representing which key was pressed ' Shift indicating whether shift, alt, ctrl were pressed ' Returns : Nothing (subroutine). ' Author : Ian Sparks (Uk). ' Date : 5th July 1994. ' Purpose : This function is called from the start and end of single-value subforms ' and catches keystrokes like TAB to move off the current record. It re-maps ' these keystrokes to CTRL-TABs to move them to the next subform instead. ' The direction the user was trying to move can be checked by the tab order of ' the current field. A tab index of 0 is the first field on the subform whilst ' any other number is assumed to be the last field on the subform. ' Rewrite : Jim Dettman 10/14/94 ' Rewrote routine to make it more generic and improve ' performance. Dim rstSubForm As Recordset Dim rstSubFormClone As Recordset Dim strBM As String Dim fAtNewRecord As Integer Dim fShiftDown As Integer 'Was the Shift key pressed down? Dim fControlDown As Integer 'Was the Ctrl key pressed down? Dim fAltDown As Integer 'Was the Alt key pressed down? Dim fTab As Integer 'Is the TAB key pressed? Dim fUp As Integer 'Is the UP key pressed? Dim fDown As Integer 'Is the DOWN key pressed? Dim fEnter As Integer 'Is the ENTER key pressed? Dim fMovingDown As Integer 'User is trying to move down? Dim fMovingUp As Integer 'User is trying to move up? Dim fOnFirstField As Integer 'Are we on first field or not? Dim fIsBound As Integer 'Is this form bound? Const Routine = "SubFormNavigate" Const Version = "1.0.1" On Error GoTo SubFormNavigate_Error ' Find out the status of the SHIFT, ALT and control keys fShiftDown = (wShift And SHIFT_MASK) > 0 fControlDown = (wShift And CTRL_MASK) > 0 fAltDown = (wShift And ALT_MASK) > 0 ' Find out what actual "movement" key was pressed fTab = (wKeyCode = KEY_TAB) fUp = (wKeyCode = KEY_UP) fDown = (wKeyCode = KEY_DOWN) fEnter = (wKeyCode = KEY_RETURN) ' Work out which direction the user was trying to move in. fMovingDown = (Not (fShiftDown) And fTab) Or fDown Or fEnter fMovingUp = (fShiftDown And fTab) Or fUp ' Decide if this subform is bound. Set rstSubForm = Frm.RecordsetClone ' Refer to forms record set If IsNull(rstSubForm.Name) Then fIsBound = False Else fIsBound = True End If ' Decide if we are on first field or not. If strParam = "F" Then fOnFirstField = True Else fOnFirstField = False End If ' Which way are we going? If fOnFirstField And fMovingUp Then If Not (fIsBound) Then DoCmd.CancelEvent SendKeys "+^{tab}" Else On Error Resume Next strBM = Frm.Bookmark fAtNewRecord = (Err = 3021) On Error GoTo SubFormNavigate_Error If (fAtNewRecord) Then If (rstSubForm.RecordCount = 0) Then DoCmd.CancelEvent SendKeys "+^{tab}" End If Else rstSubForm.Bookmark = Frm.Bookmark Set rstSubFormClone = rstSubForm.Clone() rstSubFormClone.Bookmark = rstSubForm.Bookmark rstSubFormClone.MovePrevious If rstSubFormClone.BOF Then DoCmd.CancelEvent SendKeys "+^{tab}" End If rstSubFormClone.Close End If End If Else If Not (fOnFirstField) And fMovingDown Then If Not (fIsBound) Then DoCmd.CancelEvent SendKeys "^{tab}" Else On Error Resume Next strBM = Frm.Bookmark ' Get current row bookmark fAtNewRecord = (Err = 3021) On Error GoTo SubFormNavigate_Error If (fAtNewRecord) Then DoCmd.CancelEvent SendKeys "^{tab}" Else ' Not at new record ' Need to handle case where form is read only ' and no new record is available 'rstSubForm.Bookmark = frm.Bookmark 'Set rstSubFormClone = rstSubForm.Clone() 'rstSubFormClone.Bookmark = rstSubForm.Bookmark 'rstSubFormClone.MoveNext If Frm.DefaultEditing = 3 Or Frm.DefaultEditing = 4 Then DoCmd.CancelEvent SendKeys "^{tab}" End If 'rstSubFormClone.Close End If End If End If End If Exit_SubFormNavigate: ' Give time for things to happen DoEvents rstSubForm.Close Exit Sub SubFormNavigate_Error: UnexpectedError ModuleName, Routine, Version, Err, Error$ Resume Exit_SubFormNavigate End Sub ============================================================================ =========================================== ' Purpose: Tabs user out of subform if no records exist in form ' ' Accepts: Form name and subform name ' Returns: Nothing ' ' Sub SubFormEnter(FormName As String, SubFormControl As String) Dim rstSubForm As Recordset Dim rstSubFormClone As Recordset Dim fIsBound As Integer Const Routine = "SubFormEnter" Const Version = "1.0" On Error GoTo SubFormEnter_Error ' ' Check for empty subform. If empty, Ctrl/Tab out. ' ' Decide if this subform is bound. Set rstSubForm = Forms(FormName)(SubFormControl).Form.RecordsetClone If IsNull(rstSubForm.Name) Then fIsBound = False Else fIsBound = True End If If (fIsBound) And (rstSubForm.RecordCount) = 0 Then DoCmd.CancelEvent SendKeys "^{tab}" End If rstSubForm.Close Exit_SubFormEnter: Exit Sub SubFormEnter_Error: UnexpectedError ModuleName, Routine, Version, Err, Error$ Resume Exit_SubFormEnter End Sub -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of John W. Colby Sent: Sunday, March 07, 2004 9:32 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] Your favorite control behavior >When it comes to subform tabbing you can store the tab index (me.parent.tabindex), do a one time write of cursor navigation code for the subform (for continuous forms for example) and at EOF, iterate the parent's control's tab index properties and set focus to the next one so the user doesn't know he was ever in a subform. Sounds like one for the framework! Thanks. <> Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From jimdettman at earthlink.net Wed Mar 10 08:33:36 2004 From: jimdettman at earthlink.net (Jim Dettman) Date: Wed, 10 Mar 2004 09:33:36 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Your favorite control behavior In-Reply-To: Message-ID: John, Here are some things that might go into your framework (apologies for any repeats) off the top of my head. Some are control specific and other are general items: 1. Clickable column headers to control sort order. 2. Dynamic find capability based on currently selected column. 3. A mover class (two list boxes to/from). 4. Routine to populate a tree view control from a data source. 5. Security at field/control level 6. Popup calendar on date/time controls. 7. Background/foreground highlight based on current control. 8. Background row highlight in a continuous form. 9. Save/restore of user preferences; position of forms, values in filters, etc. 10. Scalable resizing of forms. 11. User activity tracking (objects used). Some of these are things I have done in Access, some come from things in the ADH I've seen but never tried. But all are things you might want to see in a Framework from a development perspective for Access. Jim (315) 699-3443 jimdettman at earthlink.net -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of John W. Colby Sent: Saturday, March 06, 2004 4:24 PM To: AccessD Subject: [AccessD] Your favorite control behavior I am taking suggestions for control behaviors that you have found useful and have programmed controls to perform in the past. For example I program the back color of combos, lists and text boxes to change to a given color as they get the focus, and back to their original color as they lose the focus. This helps to avoid the "where's the cursor" questions. Another example, I program the double-click of a combo to open a form to allow editing the data in the table that the combo pulls from. In addition, if a combo is programmed to perform this behavior, I dynamically set its label's back color to a specific color. this is a visual cue that "this combo has the dbl-click behavior activated" What kinds of things do you have your controls do? John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From jwelz at hotmail.com Wed Mar 10 09:13:36 2004 From: jwelz at hotmail.com (Jürgen Welz) Date: Wed, 10 Mar 2004 08:13:36 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] Your favorite control behavior Message-ID: I use various techniques depending on the type of list. Most of my lists rarely change but with those that do, I have a single record table with a time field for each combo/list data that has data that should be current. When a container form opens or when a user sorts or filters a list data, it checks the time for a particular table to see if the array is stale. If so, it requiries the data and resets the array. In order for this to work, I code an update of the single record time table when the data is changed. For example, my not in list procedure uses the table name as a parameter and it updates the time flag for that table as well as adding. My edit form for that table updates the time flag table in the after update. When encapuslated as a subform, there is a property procedure that sets and gets the last time source data was queried. It is necessary to work with server time. A system like your dependent control system would be applicable here. Ciao J?rgen Welz Edmonton, Alberta jwelz at hotmail.com >From: "John W. Colby" >Reply-To: Access Developers discussion and problem >solving >To: "Access Developers discussion and problem >solving" >Subject: RE: [AccessD] Your favorite control behavior >Date: Wed, 10 Mar 2004 06:37:29 -0500 >MIME-Version: 1.0 >Received: from mc12-f28.hotmail.com ([65.54.167.164]) by >mc12-s8.hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC(5.0.2195.6824); Wed, 10 Mar 2004 >03:36:54 -0800 >Received: from databaseadvisors.com ([209.135.140.44]) by >mc12-f28.hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC(5.0.2195.6824); Wed, 10 Mar >2004 03:36:53 -0800 >Received: from databaseadvisors.com (databaseadvisors.com >[209.135.140.44])by databaseadvisors.com (8.11.6/8.11.6) with ESMTP id >i2ABaDM24060;Wed, 10 Mar 2004 05:36:13 -0600 >Received: from ColbyConsulting.com (svr5.tokios.com [69.41.224.26])by >databaseadvisors.com (8.11.6/8.11.6) with ESMTP id i2ABZxM23851for >; Wed, 10 Mar 2004 05:36:00 -0600 >Received: from jcolbyws [67.86.213.29] by ColbyConsulting.com with >ESMTP(SMTPD32-7.15) id ADA93F020A; Wed, 10 Mar 2004 05:36:09 -0600 >X-Message-Info: jl7Vrt/mfsqW0/sGQb515Tsu9Rkf1saX >Message-ID: >X-MSMail-Priority: Normal >X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2911.0) >X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 >In-Reply-To: >X-BeenThere: accessd at databaseadvisors.com >X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.4 >Precedence: list >List-Id: Access Developers discussion and problem >solving >List-Help: >List-Post: >List-Subscribe: >, >List-Archive: >List-Unsubscribe: >, >Errors-To: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com >Return-Path: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com >X-OriginalArrivalTime: 10 Mar 2004 11:36:53.0780 (UTC) >FILETIME=[FC673D40:01C40693] > >Jurgen, > >Great ideas. I've been looking at clickable header sort dir methods for >awhile. > >One question, how do you determine that a lists data source has changed? >This one has always bugged me since Access has nothing built in to tell the >developer that the data in a table has changed, and certainly not for data >changes from workstation to workstation. > >John W. Colby >www.ColbyConsulting.com > >-----Original Message----- >From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com >[mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of J?rgen Welz >Sent: Wednesday, March 10, 2004 1:34 AM >To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com >Subject: RE: [AccessD] Your favorite control behavior > > >Getting back to my favorite control behavior: > >I like list boxes to have a clickable heading that toggles sort direction >over each column in the list. For multi select list boxes, I like to have >label buttons at the bottom for selecting All, None or Inverting the >selection. > >I build these as subforms receiving property settings from the parent form >as to the number of columns, the column widths and the rowsource. These >subform lists resize themselves to the size of the subform allotted them on >the parent form. The clickable sort/select buttons are always labels that >appear depressed on mouse down and raised on mouse up. I also move a small >graphic arrow indicating the sort direction and which column is currently >sorted on top of the label clicked on. Using a label to receive the click >prevents focus from moving from the list or the parent form. I change the >itemdata property of the graphic to indicate the sort direction. The >concept looks a lot like the sorting in Outlook and some versions of >windows >explorer and the users immediately grasp the significance. As I don't like >to requery to fill these lists by direction, I always like to use arrays as >a rowsource and only requery when the list data has changed. (It has >always >been my contention that I'd rather run a line of code than retrieve a bit >over a LAN as the code executes faster than bits can travel). I have been >using disconnected data wherever possible, even in Access 97, and sorting >arrays rather than retrieving recordsets sorted one way and then another >and >this approach has nearly always been applied to my sortable lists. > > > >Ciao >J?rgen Welz >Edmonton, Alberta >jwelz at hotmail.com > >_________________________________________________________________ >MSN Premium includes powerful parental controls and get 2 months FREE* >http://join.msn.com/?pgmarket=en-ca&page=byoa/prem&xAPID=1994&DI=1034&SU=htt >p://hotmail.com/enca&HL=Market_MSNIS_Taglines > >-- >_______________________________________________ >AccessD mailing list >AccessD at databaseadvisors.com >http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd >Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > >-- >_______________________________________________ >AccessD mailing list >AccessD at databaseadvisors.com >http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd >Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com _________________________________________________________________ MSN Premium with Virus Guard and Firewall* from McAfee? Security : 2 months FREE* http://join.msn.com/?pgmarket=en-ca&page=byoa/prem&xAPID=1994&DI=1034&SU=http://hotmail.com/enca&HL=Market_MSNIS_Taglines From Jdemarco at hudsonhealthplan.org Wed Mar 10 09:28:35 2004 From: Jdemarco at hudsonhealthplan.org (Jim DeMarco) Date: Wed, 10 Mar 2004 10:28:35 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Combo on Continuous Form Message-ID: <22F1CCD5171D17419CB37FEEE09D5F990173FE68@TTNEXCHSRV1.hshhp.com> Mark, Why not put it in the form Header instead? Jim DeMarco -----Original Message----- From: Mark A Matte [mailto:markamatte at hotmail.com] Sent: Tuesday, March 09, 2004 9:58 PM To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: [AccessD] Combo on Continuous Form Hello, In A2k I want a combo box on a each row of the continuous form that filters by the current record on that continuous form. Suggestions anyone? Thanks, Mark _________________________________________________________________ Get business advice and resources to improve your work life, from bCentral. http://special.msn.com/bcentral/loudclear.armx -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com *********************************************************************************** "This electronic message is intended to be for the use only of the named recipient, and may contain information from Hudson Health Plan (HHP) that is confidential or privileged. If you are not the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any disclosure, copying, distribution or use of the contents of this message is strictly prohibited. If you have received this message in error or are not the named recipient, please notify us immediately, either by contacting the sender at the electronic mail address noted above or calling HHP at (914) 631-1611. If you are not the intended recipient, please do not forward this email to anyone, and delete and destroy all copies of this message. Thank You". *********************************************************************************** From rl_stewart at highstream.net Wed Mar 10 10:15:22 2004 From: rl_stewart at highstream.net (Robert L. Stewart) Date: Wed, 10 Mar 2004 10:15:22 -0600 Subject: [AccessD] Re: Combo on Continuous Form In-Reply-To: <200403101434.i2AEY7M06300@databaseadvisors.com> Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20040310101302.02ac0328@pop3.highstream.net> Mark, What are you trying to accomplish? For example: I want a combobox on each row of a subform so I can use it to open a second form with information filtered not only by the information in the subform, but also limited by my selection in the combobox. Please give use more information. Thanks Robert At 08:34 AM 3/10/2004 -0600, you wrote: >Date: Wed, 10 Mar 2004 04:42:13 +0000 >From: "Mark A Matte" >Subject: RE: [AccessD] Combo on Continuous Form >To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com >Message-ID: >Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed > >J?rgen, > >If by multiple instances...you mean same combo appearing on each >row/record...then yes...this is what I am trying to accomplish. > >Thanks, > >Mark From rsmethurst at UK.EY.COM Wed Mar 10 10:50:41 2004 From: rsmethurst at UK.EY.COM (rsmethurst at UK.EY.COM) Date: Wed, 10 Mar 2004 16:50:41 +0000 Subject: [AccessD] Chart Tooltips Message-ID: Hi All, I'm using a chart object and would like to make use of the 'series tooltip' - the one that displays when you hover over a series. The tooltip gives details about it's value and point on the graph. It seems to work in design view but not at run-time. I have no boxes around the object. TIA Ryan This e-mail and any attachment are confidential and contain proprietary information, some or all of which may be legally privileged. It is intended solely for the use of the individual or entity to which it is addressed. If you are not the intended recipient, please notify the author immediately by telephone or by replying to this e-mail, and then delete all copies of the e-mail on your system. If you are not the intended recipient, you must not use, disclose, distribute, copy, print or rely on this e-mail. Whilst we have taken reasonable precautions to ensure that this e-mail and any attachment has been checked for viruses, we cannot guarantee that they are virus free and we cannot accept liability for any damage sustained as a result of software viruses. We would advise that you carry out your own virus checks, especially before opening an attachment. The UK firm Ernst & Young LLP is a limited liability partnership registered in England and Wales with registered number OC300001 and is a member practice of Ernst & Young Global. A list of members? names is available for inspection at 1 More London Place, London, SE1 2AF, the firm?s principal place of business and its registered office. From donald.a.Mcgillivray at mail.sprint.com Wed Mar 10 10:57:07 2004 From: donald.a.Mcgillivray at mail.sprint.com (Mcgillivray, Donald [ITS]) Date: Wed, 10 Mar 2004 10:57:07 -0600 Subject: [AccessD] Framework Discussion - Questions and answers Message-ID: <6FC1C7A6E7BD5540AB0A8436713C43BF0757419D@PKDWB01C.ad.sprint.com> Yes. Thanks for the clarification! -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of John W. Colby Sent: Tuesday, March 09, 2004 7:09 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] Framework Discussion - Questions and answers Don, Initialize and Terminate are the only two built in event sinks of the class. This means that these events fire and the code in these subs run regardless of anything else. Initialize runs before anything else in the class, and Terminate runs immediately as the last pointer to the class is set to nothing. Init() and Term() are METHODS of the class, not events. They can be called by code after the class is instantiated. Because Initialize() runs before anything else occurs there is no way for us to pass parameters in to it. Init() is just a method like any other and I can specify any parameters I want, and then pass in to the class things that it routinely needs to have to function. In fact I choose the name Init, it is a method I write and I could just as easily name it JCsSpecialInitialization() if I so desired. Obviously we need standard practices so if I need to pass in parameters to a class I always use the name Init() as the function for that purpose. If I need to cleanup, and that cleanup needs to be available from outside the class, I use Term() as the function name. Typically I use Initialize to initialize things like classes and collections. For example: dim mcolControls as collection The dim simply reserves a variable for the collection, it doesn't make it useable. To do that we need a set statement: set mcolControls = new Collection. I will almost always put that set statement in the Initialize event so that a) it is always initialized b) I can go one place to find all set statements for objects in the class' header On the other hand I almost always place all of my cleanup of these objects (set mcolControls = nothing) in my term and call term from Terminate. I do that because: a) I almost always call Terminate from outside the class but... b) if for some reason the last pointer to the class is just set to nothing "accidentally" term will still run because Terminate will fire. Did all that make sense? John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Mcgillivray, Donald [ITS] Sent: Tuesday, March 09, 2004 4:03 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] Framework Discussion - Questions and answers If I may deviate from the course this thread has taken . . . ;o) John, Your classes contain Init and Term methods and in addition dclsFrm includes Class_Initialize and Class_Terminate methods. If you have covered this already, please bear with me as I struggle to get my head around the basics, but are the latter "special" methods automatically invoked whenever the class is instantiated and destroyed? If so, why not simply embed the Init and Term functionality in them and be done with it. Thanks again for the generous contribution of your time and effort to our further understanding of these concepts. This list is the greatest thanks to contributions from folks like you. Don McGillivray -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Philippe Pons Sent: Tuesday, March 09, 2004 12:18 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Framework Discussion - Questions and answers Tu lui chantes: "Voulez vous coucher avec moi, ce soir?" and the magic could occur! Philippe ----- Original Message ----- From: "Arthur Fuller" To: "'Access Developers discussion and problem solving'" Sent: Tuesday, March 09, 2004 8:51 PM Subject: RE: [AccessD] Framework Discussion - Questions and answers > How do I get Penelope Cruz to sleep with me? > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of John W. > Colby > Sent: Tuesday, March 09, 2004 3:36 AM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: [AccessD] Framework Discussion - Questions and answers > > > If anyone has any questions please feel free to post them. I will > answer to the best of my abilities. > > John W. Colby > www.ColbyConsulting.com > > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From martyconnelly at shaw.ca Wed Mar 10 11:18:30 2004 From: martyconnelly at shaw.ca (MartyConnelly) Date: Wed, 10 Mar 2004 09:18:30 -0800 Subject: [AccessD] Setting/ retrieving Field properties? References: <20040310111517.21722.qmail@web61109.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <404F4DE6.2010205@shaw.ca> Here is an example that resets all fields in all tables to allow zero length, skips around errors with on error resume next ACC: How to Set AllowZeroLength Property to Yes in All Tables http://support.microsoft.com/default.aspx?scid=kb;en-us;130336&Product=acc S D wrote: >Hi group, > >I need to set the field properties of a lot of tables. I want to do this using VBA. >I was reading Access 2000 Developers Handbook and I found the code printed below. However these are not the properties I expected. >I need to set field properties like: >Fiel Size >Required >Allow Zerow Length > >Any idea how I can do this? > >TIA > >Sander > > >Private Sub Command0_Click() > Dim db As DAO.Database > Dim intI As Integer > Dim tdf As DAO.TableDef > > Set db = CurrentDb() > > For intI = 0 To db.TableDefs.Count - 1 > Set tdf = db.TableDefs(intI) > If tdf.Name = "V3_44_RSDTD1" Then > Debug.Print "Printing properties for table: " & tdf.Name > Call ListTableProps(tdf.Name) > MsgBox "Properties listed!" > End If > Next intI > > MsgBox "Done! Tables found: " & intI > >End Sub >Sub ListTableProps(strTable As String) > Dim db As Database > Dim tdf As TableDef > Dim prp As DAO.Property > > Set db = CurrentDb() > Set tdf = db(strTable) > > For Each prp In tdf.Properties > Debug.Print prp.Name, prp.Type, prp.Value > Next prp >End Sub > > >--------------------------------- >Do you Yahoo!? >Yahoo! Search - Find what youre looking for faster. > > -- Marty Connelly Victoria, B.C. Canada From martyconnelly at shaw.ca Wed Mar 10 11:36:13 2004 From: martyconnelly at shaw.ca (MartyConnelly) Date: Wed, 10 Mar 2004 09:36:13 -0800 Subject: [AccessD] PivotTable-view not working References: Message-ID: <404F520D.50005@shaw.ca> You might get a license conflict if you have Office Web XP controls installed, but that is just a guess. Maybe do a Custom reinstall selecting everything. Michael Br?sdorf wrote: >Dear group, > >for testing purposes I installed Access 2003 on a machine that already has >Access 2000 and Access 2002 installed. >I wanted to play around with the PivotTable-view, but everytime I try to >switch to that view, an error message pops >up telling me that this feature isn't installed. > >But I could not find any options for pivoting in the setup programm. I just >installed Access 2003 and VBA from an Office 2003 Professional CDROM. >Which Office-component needs to be installed so that the pivot table view >works? > >TIA, > >Michael > > > -- Marty Connelly Victoria, B.C. Canada From rl_stewart at highstream.net Wed Mar 10 12:25:06 2004 From: rl_stewart at highstream.net (Robert L. Stewart) Date: Wed, 10 Mar 2004 12:25:06 -0600 Subject: [AccessD] Re: Setting/ retrieving Field properties? In-Reply-To: <200403101800.i2AI0DM25099@databaseadvisors.com> Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20040310122259.02a41320@pop3.highstream.net> Sander, Also, remember that a property does not exist until it has been created for the first time for a column. For example, if you have not set the default value property of a column, the default property does not exist for that column and you will have to create it before you can set it. That is why your original code did not show you what you were expecting. Robert At 12:00 PM 3/10/2004 -0600, you wrote: >Date: Wed, 10 Mar 2004 09:18:30 -0800 >From: MartyConnelly >Subject: Re: [AccessD] Setting/ retrieving Field properties? >To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > >Message-ID: <404F4DE6.2010205 at shaw.ca> >Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252; format=flowed > >Here is an example that resets all fields in all tables to allow zero >length, skips around errors with on error resume next >ACC: How to Set AllowZeroLength Property to Yes in All Tables >http://support.microsoft.com/default.aspx?scid=kb;en-us;130336&Product=acc > >S D wrote: > > >Hi group, > > > >I need to set the field properties of a lot of tables. I want to do this > using VBA. > >I was reading Access 2000 Developers Handbook and I found the code > printed below. However these are not the properties I expected. > >I need to set field properties like: > >Fiel Size > >Required > >Allow Zerow Length > > > >Any idea how I can do this? > > > >TIA > > > >Sander > > > > > >Private Sub Command0_Click() > > Dim db As DAO.Database > > Dim intI As Integer > > Dim tdf As DAO.TableDef > > > > Set db = CurrentDb() > > > > For intI = 0 To db.TableDefs.Count - 1 > > Set tdf = db.TableDefs(intI) > > If tdf.Name = "V3_44_RSDTD1" Then > > Debug.Print "Printing properties for table: " & tdf.Name > > Call ListTableProps(tdf.Name) > > MsgBox "Properties listed!" > > End If > > Next intI > > > > MsgBox "Done! Tables found: " & intI > > > >End Sub > >Sub ListTableProps(strTable As String) > > Dim db As Database > > Dim tdf As TableDef > > Dim prp As DAO.Property > > > > Set db = CurrentDb() > > Set tdf = db(strTable) > > > > For Each prp In tdf.Properties > > Debug.Print prp.Name, prp.Type, prp.Value > > Next prp > >End Sub > > From stephen at bondsoftware.co.nz Wed Mar 10 12:35:18 2004 From: stephen at bondsoftware.co.nz (Stephen Bond) Date: Thu, 11 Mar 2004 07:35:18 +1300 Subject: [AccessD] Heads up - Compacting File Resets NTFS Permissions Message-ID: <70F3D727890C784291D8433E9C418F29088690@server.bondsoftware.co.nz> "The Microsoft Jet database engine cannot open the file ''. It is already opened exclusively by another user, or you need permission to view its data." This message has caused some pain in the past - this is the first time I have seen a MS explanation. http://support.microsoft.com/default.aspx?scid=kb;EN-US;295234 Stephen Bond From pjewett at bayplace.com Wed Mar 10 12:40:01 2004 From: pjewett at bayplace.com (Phil Jewett) Date: Wed, 10 Mar 2004 10:40:01 -0800 Subject: [AccessD] RE: Your favorite control behavior Message-ID: It used to be that users would settle for an alphabetical pick list, but now they want the items in a particular order. Instead of the generic continuous form for code table maintenance, I use a list box with an entry box and two adjacent up and down buttons so the user can add items, and then reorder them to their hearts desire. Doubleclicking an item puts it back in the entry box for editing. The code table has a 'sequence' field to hold the sort ordering. From GregSmith at starband.net Wed Mar 10 13:31:35 2004 From: GregSmith at starband.net (GregSmith at starband.net) Date: Wed, 10 Mar 2004 14:31:35 -0500 (EST) Subject: [AccessD] Converting Access 97 to Access XP FE & BE In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <2332.216.43.21.235.1078947095.squirrel@cetus.email.starband.net> Hi everyone! From EdTesiny at oasas.state.ny.us Wed Mar 10 13:36:16 2004 From: EdTesiny at oasas.state.ny.us (Tesiny, Ed) Date: Wed, 10 Mar 2004 14:36:16 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Converting Access 97 to Access XP FE & BE Message-ID: Hi, back to you! Ed Tesiny EdTesiny at oasas.state.ny.us -----Original Message----- From: GregSmith at starband.net [mailto:GregSmith at starband.net] Sent: Wednesday, March 10, 2004 2:32 PM To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: [AccessD] Converting Access 97 to Access XP FE & BE Hi everyone! -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From jmhla at earthlink.net Wed Mar 10 13:43:20 2004 From: jmhla at earthlink.net (jmhla at earthlink.net) Date: Wed, 10 Mar 2004 14:43:20 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Converting Access 97 to Access XP FE & BE Message-ID: <63340-22004331019432018@M2W059.mail2web.com> yes Original Message: ----------------- From: GregSmith at starband.net Date: Wed, 10 Mar 2004 14:31:35 -0500 (EST) To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: [AccessD] Converting Access 97 to Access XP FE & BE Hi everyone! -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -------------------------------------------------------------------- mail2web - Check your email from the web at http://mail2web.com/ . From GregSmith at starband.net Wed Mar 10 13:48:13 2004 From: GregSmith at starband.net (GregSmith at starband.net) Date: Wed, 10 Mar 2004 14:48:13 -0500 (EST) Subject: [AccessD] Converting Access 97 to Access XP FE& BE In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <2350.216.43.21.235.1078948093.squirrel@cetus.email.starband.net> Hi Everyone...again. I have no clue what happened to that last message....Sometimes fast computers can be a great disadvantage...sorry 'bout that. I'm in the process of converting a rather complex Access 97 database (FE is about 8 meg, BE with data is about 500 meg) to Access XP (or 2002 if you prefer). This is also a tightly secured database, using access's security, groups, users, etc., with about 20 users for signing in. The security part isn't really an issue...MS says I can continue to use the same mdw file in 97 & XP, although I won't have some of the advantages that Jet 4 will have if I convert it. But the only way to convert the mdw file is to recreate it. Not high on my list to do that right now. Maybe later...after I find all the PID's and stuff. Not gonna go there for now... I ran the conversion from A97 to A2k to AXP on both the FE & BE. They worked without error (if you don't include the three errors for the three tables I forgot to relink...). I know that there is DAO specific code in there, and I'm sure it didn't convert all of that. Does anyone know what really needs to be converted in the VB code from DAO to ADO? I think CurrentDB() is one, and it's in there, but when I tested the converted app & data, everything seems to work just fine. However, being the suspicious type, I suspect I'm about to get ambushed by somthing in it major that won't work right. I'd much rather find out about it NOW than after they've gone live with the upgrade and my butt's hanging out in the breeze (once again...), figuratively speaking of course. Or is there somewhere on M$ or elsewhere I can go to get specifics on converting the code fully? Any help would be greatly appreciated. TIA! Greg Smith gregsmith at starband.net aka ==> weeden1949 at hotmail.com From cfoust at infostatsystems.com Wed Mar 10 15:12:18 2004 From: cfoust at infostatsystems.com (Charlotte Foust) Date: Wed, 10 Mar 2004 13:12:18 -0800 Subject: [AccessD] Converting Access 97 to Access XP FE& BE Message-ID: Unless you're planning on using ADO exclusively, DAO works just fine in XP, and you still have to fall back on DAO for somethings anyhow. XP has no problem with either CurrentDB or CurrentProject, and there is a certain basic support for both ADO and DAO built into XP even if you remove *both* the references. I recommend you go through and specifically change your declarations throughout to DAO.Recordset, DAO.Database, etc., both to remove any confusion the engine has and to make it easier to spot them in your code. There are certain objects that have the same name in both models, and without the specific declaration, Access can get them mixed up and think you're trying to use an invalid method or property. Charlotte Foust -----Original Message----- From: GregSmith at starband.net [mailto:GregSmith at starband.net] Sent: Wednesday, March 10, 2004 11:48 AM To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: [AccessD] Converting Access 97 to Access XP FE& BE Hi Everyone...again. I have no clue what happened to that last message....Sometimes fast computers can be a great disadvantage...sorry 'bout that. I'm in the process of converting a rather complex Access 97 database (FE is about 8 meg, BE with data is about 500 meg) to Access XP (or 2002 if you prefer). This is also a tightly secured database, using access's security, groups, users, etc., with about 20 users for signing in. The security part isn't really an issue...MS says I can continue to use the same mdw file in 97 & XP, although I won't have some of the advantages that Jet 4 will have if I convert it. But the only way to convert the mdw file is to recreate it. Not high on my list to do that right now. Maybe later...after I find all the PID's and stuff. Not gonna go there for now... I ran the conversion from A97 to A2k to AXP on both the FE & BE. They worked without error (if you don't include the three errors for the three tables I forgot to relink...). I know that there is DAO specific code in there, and I'm sure it didn't convert all of that. Does anyone know what really needs to be converted in the VB code from DAO to ADO? I think CurrentDB() is one, and it's in there, but when I tested the converted app & data, everything seems to work just fine. However, being the suspicious type, I suspect I'm about to get ambushed by somthing in it major that won't work right. I'd much rather find out about it NOW than after they've gone live with the upgrade and my butt's hanging out in the breeze (once again...), figuratively speaking of course. Or is there somewhere on M$ or elsewhere I can go to get specifics on converting the code fully? Any help would be greatly appreciated. TIA! Greg Smith gregsmith at starband.net aka ==> weeden1949 at hotmail.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From markamatte at hotmail.com Wed Mar 10 15:50:07 2004 From: markamatte at hotmail.com (Mark A Matte) Date: Wed, 10 Mar 2004 21:50:07 +0000 Subject: [AccessD] Combo on Continuous Form Message-ID: Because the form I'm building will be the same form for multiple products...but each product will have different attributes...and different values available depending on the product and the attribute. So the dropdown on each row will have different values...depending on what attribute is on that row. Thanks, Mark >From: "Jim DeMarco" >Reply-To: Access Developers discussion and problem >solving >To: "Access Developers discussion and problem solving" > >Subject: RE: [AccessD] Combo on Continuous Form >Date: Wed, 10 Mar 2004 10:28:35 -0500 > >Mark, > >Why not put it in the form Header instead? > >Jim DeMarco > >-----Original Message----- >From: Mark A Matte [mailto:markamatte at hotmail.com] >Sent: Tuesday, March 09, 2004 9:58 PM >To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com >Subject: [AccessD] Combo on Continuous Form > > >Hello, > >In A2k I want a combo box on a each row of the continuous form that filters >by the current record on that continuous form. Suggestions anyone? > >Thanks, > >Mark > >_________________________________________________________________ >Get business advice and resources to improve your work life, from bCentral. >http://special.msn.com/bcentral/loudclear.armx > >-- >_______________________________________________ >AccessD mailing list >AccessD at databaseadvisors.com >http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd >Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > > > >*********************************************************************************** >"This electronic message is intended to be for the use only of the named >recipient, and may contain information from Hudson Health Plan (HHP) that >is confidential or privileged. If you are not the intended recipient, you >are hereby notified that any disclosure, copying, distribution or use of >the contents of this message is strictly prohibited. If you have received >this message in error or are not the named recipient, please notify us >immediately, either by contacting the sender at the electronic mail address >noted above or calling HHP at (914) 631-1611. If you are not the intended >recipient, please do not forward this email to anyone, and delete and >destroy all copies of this message. Thank You". >*********************************************************************************** > >-- >_______________________________________________ >AccessD mailing list >AccessD at databaseadvisors.com >http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd >Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com _________________________________________________________________ FREE pop-up blocking with the new MSN Toolbar ? get it now! http://clk.atdmt.com/AVE/go/onm00200415ave/direct/01/ From my.lists at verizon.net Wed Mar 10 15:50:19 2004 From: my.lists at verizon.net (Francisco H Tapia) Date: Wed, 10 Mar 2004 13:50:19 -0800 Subject: [AccessD] Access 2000 ADP's and DataSheet views - Crosspost Message-ID: <404F8D9B.6050809@verizon.net> re-posted from the SqlServer list :) Quick questions, has anyone on the list tried to use a datasheet view form bound to a view or sproc and found that if you filter out the display (datasheet) that upon making changes to any field the datasheet looses it's Filter? Thanks, -- -Francisco From markamatte at hotmail.com Wed Mar 10 15:51:57 2004 From: markamatte at hotmail.com (Mark A Matte) Date: Wed, 10 Mar 2004 21:51:57 +0000 Subject: [AccessD] Re: Combo on Continuous Form Message-ID: Robert, My original post was: In A2k I want a combo box on a each row of the continuous form that filters by the current record on that continuous form. Suggestions anyone? Thanks, Mark >From: "Robert L. Stewart" >Reply-To: Access Developers discussion and problem >solving >To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com >CC: markamatte at hotmail.com >Subject: [AccessD] Re: Combo on Continuous Form >Date: Wed, 10 Mar 2004 10:15:22 -0600 > >Mark, > >What are you trying to accomplish? > >For example: > >I want a combobox on each row of a subform so I >can use it to open a second form with information >filtered not only by the information in the subform, >but also limited by my selection in the combobox. > >Please give use more information. > >Thanks > >Robert > >At 08:34 AM 3/10/2004 -0600, you wrote: >>Date: Wed, 10 Mar 2004 04:42:13 +0000 >>From: "Mark A Matte" >>Subject: RE: [AccessD] Combo on Continuous Form >>To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com >>Message-ID: >>Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed >> >>J?rgen, >> >>If by multiple instances...you mean same combo appearing on each >>row/record...then yes...this is what I am trying to accomplish. >> >>Thanks, >> >>Mark > > >-- >_______________________________________________ >AccessD mailing list >AccessD at databaseadvisors.com >http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd >Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com _________________________________________________________________ FREE pop-up blocking with the new MSN Toolbar ? get it now! http://clk.atdmt.com/AVE/go/onm00200415ave/direct/01/ From dwaters at usinternet.com Wed Mar 10 16:36:51 2004 From: dwaters at usinternet.com (Dan Waters) Date: Wed, 10 Mar 2004 16:36:51 -0600 Subject: [AccessD] Images on Continuous Forms or Reports Message-ID: <000501c406f0$2ff48c10$de1811d8@DanWaters> Hello to All! I have a need to display an image on a row in a continuous report. However, some rows will have an image and some won't. I know how to make that work. What I would like to be able to do is have the detail section of the report (or form) grow or shrink in accordance with the size of the image or whether or not the image exists. When I started this I assumed that the image control would have grow and shrink properties, but NO they don't! I also looked at bound and unbound object frames, but they also don't have grow and shrink properties. Can anyone point me in the right direction? Thanks! Dan Waters From bchacc at san.rr.com Wed Mar 10 16:40:34 2004 From: bchacc at san.rr.com (Rocky Smolin - Beach Access Software) Date: Wed, 10 Mar 2004 14:40:34 -0800 Subject: [AccessD] Re: Combo on Continuous Form References: Message-ID: <01a501c406f0$b380fff0$6601a8c0@HAL9002> Mark: I'd use the on current event to structure an SQL statement based on the appropriate values in the current record. The set the combo rowsource and requery the combo box. I'm assuming that if the user clicks the combo box of a record which is not the current record the OnCurrent event triggers first so the combo box row source will be reset and requeried before it drops down. Otherwise you may have to put the code into the OnClick event of the combo box, or even the GotFocus event on the theory that the user could tab into the box. But I would try the OnCurrent first. Rocky ----- Original Message ----- From: "Mark A Matte" To: Sent: Wednesday, March 10, 2004 1:51 PM Subject: RE: [AccessD] Re: Combo on Continuous Form > Robert, > > My original post was: > > In A2k I want a combo box on a each row of the continuous form that filters > by the current record on that continuous form. Suggestions anyone? > > Thanks, > > Mark > > > >From: "Robert L. Stewart" > >Reply-To: Access Developers discussion and problem > >solving > >To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com > >CC: markamatte at hotmail.com > >Subject: [AccessD] Re: Combo on Continuous Form > >Date: Wed, 10 Mar 2004 10:15:22 -0600 > > > >Mark, > > > >What are you trying to accomplish? > > > >For example: > > > >I want a combobox on each row of a subform so I > >can use it to open a second form with information > >filtered not only by the information in the subform, > >but also limited by my selection in the combobox. > > > >Please give use more information. > > > >Thanks > > > >Robert > > > >At 08:34 AM 3/10/2004 -0600, you wrote: > >>Date: Wed, 10 Mar 2004 04:42:13 +0000 > >>From: "Mark A Matte" > >>Subject: RE: [AccessD] Combo on Continuous Form > >>To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com > >>Message-ID: > >>Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed > >> > >>J?rgen, > >> > >>If by multiple instances...you mean same combo appearing on each > >>row/record...then yes...this is what I am trying to accomplish. > >> > >>Thanks, > >> > >>Mark > > > > > >-- > >_______________________________________________ > >AccessD mailing list > >AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > >http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > >Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > _________________________________________________________________ > FREE pop-up blocking with the new MSN Toolbar - get it now! > http://clk.atdmt.com/AVE/go/onm00200415ave/direct/01/ > > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > From ssharkins at bellsouth.net Wed Mar 10 16:46:15 2004 From: ssharkins at bellsouth.net (Susan Harkins) Date: Wed, 10 Mar 2004 17:46:15 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Re: Combo on Continuous Form In-Reply-To: <01a501c406f0$b380fff0$6601a8c0@HAL9002> Message-ID: <20040310224622.WQXB18468.imf24aec.mail.bellsouth.net@SUSANONE> The Current would filter each time he tabbed into that control, which might become a nuissance after awhile, but would be quite cool if that's what he's actually after. Susan H. Mark: I'd use the on current event to structure an SQL statement based on the appropriate values in the current record. The set the combo rowsource and requery the combo box. I'm assuming that if the user clicks the combo box of a record which is not the current record the OnCurrent event triggers first so the combo box row source will be reset and requeried before it drops down. Otherwise you may have to put the code into the OnClick event of the combo box, or even the GotFocus event on the theory that the user could tab into the box. But I would try the OnCurrent first. From jwelz at hotmail.com Wed Mar 10 16:54:17 2004 From: jwelz at hotmail.com (Jürgen Welz) Date: Wed, 10 Mar 2004 15:54:17 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] Re: Combo on Continuous Form Message-ID: I have used a textbox over a combo and hidden the textbox by running a procedure on the got focus to the combo behind and used a sql source for the combo that referenced a textbox on the current row as a filter. I was sure I had seen another method but have not found it. The concept of using a selector combo in the continuous form header as suggested by others works well. In that case you requery the combo when the control in the record displaying the value selected from the combo when the value was set takes focus. In the after update of the combo, update the current record. The problem with doing it by hiding and unhiding a bound textbox in front of the combo on each row is that setting the row source of the combo for one row sets it for all rows and unhides the covering textbox on all rows as well. Thus it appears like the wrong value is in each row whicle the combo has the focus. As soon as the lost focus of the combo fired, the textbox visibility was restored and each record showed the correct selection again. The way I used it was there was a parent form which held an Estimate record. I could associate a variety of contractors to whom we were submitting a bid by adding them to a continuous sub form. In each row of the contractor records was a combo of all the contacts with that particular contractor. In other words, the combo was filtered on the ContractorID for Contacts. When a user clicked in a row, the rowsource for the combo now referenced the current ContractorID but I didn't requery the combo until it received focus. Before moving to unbound continuous subforms (when John Colby saw my early unbound continous years ago, he said my code was unmaintainable), this was no way in which I've succeeded in making this work in a manner that had no obvious glitches (like the other rows showing the wrong combo when the bound textbox in front got focus.) I have a database that uses the original method I posted, with a textbox in front of a combo, on a computer at an office I'll be visiting on Friday. The original code was probably written in '98 and I haven't udated it since. It is the simplest way I know to do this even if it isn't perfect. The continuous form recordsource must join the table displaying the values you want displayed in the textbox cum combo hide/unhide in order to work. If you want, I can probably zip a small demo showing that approach on Friday and you can decide if it is workable for you. I have tried other methods but failed because there is no ability to hook the scroll bar to determine a row for the purpose of floating a form control over the continous form combo. Ciao J?rgen Welz Edmonton, Alberta jwelz at hotmail.com >From: "Mark A Matte" >Reply-To: Access Developers discussion and problem >solving >To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com >Subject: RE: [AccessD] Re: Combo on Continuous Form >Date: Wed, 10 Mar 2004 21:51:57 +0000 >MIME-Version: 1.0 >X-Originating-IP: [198.179.147.18] >X-Originating-Email: [markamatte at hotmail.com] >X-Sender: markamatte at hotmail.com >Received: from mc3-f33.hotmail.com ([64.4.50.169]) by mc3-s12.hotmail.com >with Microsoft SMTPSVC(5.0.2195.6824); Wed, 10 Mar 2004 13:55:09 -0800 >Received: from databaseadvisors.com ([209.135.140.44]) by >mc3-f33.hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC(5.0.2195.6824); Wed, 10 Mar 2004 >13:54:20 -0800 >Received: from databaseadvisors.com (databaseadvisors.com >[209.135.140.44])by databaseadvisors.com (8.11.6/8.11.6) with ESMTP id >i2ALq0M16312;Wed, 10 Mar 2004 15:52:00 -0600 >Received: from hotmail.com (bay1-f67.bay1.hotmail.com [65.54.245.67])by >databaseadvisors.com (8.11.6/8.11.6) with ESMTP id i2ALptM16215for >; Wed, 10 Mar 2004 15:51:55 -0600 >Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft >SMTPSVC;Wed, 10 Mar 2004 13:51:58 -0800 >Received: from 198.179.147.18 by by1fd.bay1.hotmail.msn.com with HTTP;Wed, >10 Mar 2004 21:51:57 GMT >X-Message-Info: jl7Vrt/mfsqwkfPxX/ZB8/QWiwG/Wg9+ >Message-ID: >X-OriginalArrivalTime: 10 Mar 2004 21:51:58.0056 >(UTC)FILETIME=[E910DE80:01C406E9] >X-BeenThere: accessd at databaseadvisors.com >X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.4 >Precedence: list >List-Id: Access Developers discussion and problem >solving >List-Help: >List-Post: >List-Subscribe: >, >List-Archive: >List-Unsubscribe: >, >Errors-To: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com >Return-Path: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > >Robert, > >My original post was: > >In A2k I want a combo box on a each row of the continuous form that filters >by the current record on that continuous form. Suggestions anyone? > >Thanks, > >Mark > > >>From: "Robert L. Stewart" >>Reply-To: Access Developers discussion and problem >>solving >>To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com >>CC: markamatte at hotmail.com >>Subject: [AccessD] Re: Combo on Continuous Form >>Date: Wed, 10 Mar 2004 10:15:22 -0600 >> >>Mark, >> >>What are you trying to accomplish? >> >>For example: >> >>I want a combobox on each row of a subform so I >>can use it to open a second form with information >>filtered not only by the information in the subform, >>but also limited by my selection in the combobox. >> >>Please give use more information. >> >>Thanks >> >>Robert >> >>At 08:34 AM 3/10/2004 -0600, you wrote: >>>Date: Wed, 10 Mar 2004 04:42:13 +0000 >>>From: "Mark A Matte" >>>Subject: RE: [AccessD] Combo on Continuous Form >>>To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com >>>Message-ID: >>>Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed >>> >>>J?rgen, >>> >>>If by multiple instances...you mean same combo appearing on each >>>row/record...then yes...this is what I am trying to accomplish. >>> >>>Thanks, >>> >>>Mark >> >> >>-- >>_______________________________________________ >>AccessD mailing list >>AccessD at databaseadvisors.com >>http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd >>Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > >_________________________________________________________________ >FREE pop-up blocking with the new MSN Toolbar ? get it now! >http://clk.atdmt.com/AVE/go/onm00200415ave/direct/01/ > >-- >_______________________________________________ >AccessD mailing list >AccessD at databaseadvisors.com >http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd >Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com _________________________________________________________________ Add photos to your messages with MSN Premium. Get 2 months FREE* http://join.msn.com/?pgmarket=en-ca&page=byoa/prem&xAPID=1994&DI=1034&SU=http://hotmail.com/enca&HL=Market_MSNIS_Taglines From d.dick at uws.edu.au Wed Mar 10 17:34:51 2004 From: d.dick at uws.edu.au (Darren DICK) Date: Thu, 11 Mar 2004 10:34:51 +1100 Subject: [AccessD] Images on Continuous Forms or Reports References: <000501c406f0$2ff48c10$de1811d8@DanWaters> Message-ID: <008601c406f8$48aeae40$48619a89@DDICK> HI Dan Haven't done this but try something like this Have the image control sizes virtually invisible eg Width = 1 Height =1 Then for each row that has the image visible try something like (Testing only for a value in the phone number field (at Table Level not control level) of a contacts database) Private Sub Detail_Format(Cancel As Integer, FormatCount As Integer) If IsNull(Me.PhoneNumber) Then Me.Image0.Visible = False Me.Image0.Height = 1 Me.Image0.Width = 1 Else Me.Image0.Visible = True Me.Image0.Height = 200 Me.Image0.Width = 200 End If End Sub Hope this helps and works Darren ----- Original Message ----- From: "Dan Waters" To: "Database Advisors" Sent: Thursday, March 11, 2004 9:36 AM Subject: [AccessD] Images on Continuous Forms or Reports > Hello to All! > > > > I have a need to display an image on a row in a continuous report. However, > some rows will have an image and some won't. I know how to make that work. > > > > What I would like to be able to do is have the detail section of the report > (or form) grow or shrink in accordance with the size of the image or whether > or not the image exists. When I started this I assumed that the image > control would have grow and shrink properties, but NO they don't! > > > > I also looked at bound and unbound object frames, but they also don't have > grow and shrink properties. > > > > Can anyone point me in the right direction? > > > > Thanks! > > Dan Waters > > > > > > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From d.dick at uws.edu.au Wed Mar 10 17:42:03 2004 From: d.dick at uws.edu.au (Darren DICK) Date: Thu, 11 Mar 2004 10:42:03 +1100 Subject: Fw: [AccessD] Images on Continuous Forms or Reports Message-ID: <009401c406f9$4a18f730$48619a89@DDICK> Hi Dan Taking this to the next level. You can determine what picture to show based on criteria. Try testing for the existence of the left brack on the phone number field as in (123) 1234 5678 and then displaying an image. If no bracket as in 1234 5678 then display the standard image eg I forgot to mention have the Image default properties set to Invisible (Visible = false) Private Sub Detail_Format(Cancel As Integer, FormatCount As Integer) If IsNull(Me.PhoneNumber) Then Me.Image0.Visible = False Me.Image0.Height = 2 Me.Image0.Width = 2 Else Me.Image0.Visible = True If Left(Me.PhoneNumber, 1) = "(" Then Me.Image0.Picture = "C:\Image1.jpg" Else Me.Image0.Picture = "C:\Image2.jpg" End If Me.Image0.Height = 200 Me.Image0.Width = 200 End If End Sub ----- Original Message ----- From: "Darren DICK" To: "Access Developers discussion and problem solving" Sent: Thursday, March 11, 2004 10:34 AM Subject: Re: [AccessD] Images on Continuous Forms or Reports > HI Dan > Haven't done this but try something like this > Have the image control sizes virtually invisible > eg Width = 1 Height =1 > Then for each row that has the image visible try something like > (Testing only for a value in the phone number field (at Table Level not control level) of a contacts database) > > Private Sub Detail_Format(Cancel As Integer, FormatCount As Integer) > If IsNull(Me.PhoneNumber) Then > Me.Image0.Visible = False > Me.Image0.Height = 1 > Me.Image0.Width = 1 > Else > Me.Image0.Visible = True > Me.Image0.Height = 200 > Me.Image0.Width = 200 > End If > > End Sub > > Hope this helps and works > > Darren > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Dan Waters" > To: "Database Advisors" > Sent: Thursday, March 11, 2004 9:36 AM > Subject: [AccessD] Images on Continuous Forms or Reports > > > > Hello to All! > > > > > > > > I have a need to display an image on a row in a continuous report. However, > > some rows will have an image and some won't. I know how to make that work. > > > > > > > > What I would like to be able to do is have the detail section of the report > > (or form) grow or shrink in accordance with the size of the image or whether > > or not the image exists. When I started this I assumed that the image > > control would have grow and shrink properties, but NO they don't! > > > > > > > > I also looked at bound and unbound object frames, but they also don't have > > grow and shrink properties. > > > > > > > > Can anyone point me in the right direction? > > > > > > > > Thanks! > > > > Dan Waters > > > > > > > > > > > > -- > > _______________________________________________ > > AccessD mailing list > > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From KIsmert at TexasSystems.com Wed Mar 10 20:10:51 2004 From: KIsmert at TexasSystems.com (Ken Ismert) Date: Wed, 10 Mar 2004 20:10:51 -0600 Subject: [AccessD] Framework Discussion - Who's following this In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <005201c4070e$14499640$2a3ca8c0@TEXASSYSTEMS.COM> John, >Yea... in a perfect world. Unfortunately for most of us a framework is not >a project which we spec out and write, but rather a living entity that we >add functionality to on a weekly basis. Thus feature bloat is an inherent >part of doing business, and there is never a finish, much less a timely one! Evolution is a valid development method, especially when the path ahead is not clear. I often find, though, that doing an informal design using pencil and paper saves time. It helps separate needs from wants. Do I really need 3-D animated text on my Message Box replacement? It may be vital, but if it isn't, leave it out for now. Of course, a framework implies an organization of function. So, how do we organize a constantly changing function set? By providing standard methods of extending the framework. Careful design here can have an enormous payoff. This is where interfaces can play a role. > ... I think it is important to NEVER accept the limitations of your >platform. Much of what my framework does is nothing more than an attempt by >me to program around the limitations of Access ... Removing arbitrary limits is a worthy pursuit. Don't like the [Forms]![Form]![Control] method of synchronization? Replace it with your own global parameter collection. Want to enforce standard behavior for ComboBox NotInList events? Write an event-sinking class that provides that functionality. All good. The tools of object programming and abstraction give us ample power to work around such limitations. It gets a little trickier when dealing with the platform's warts, like not automatically terminating an out-of-process object. Here, limits can't be satisfactorily removed, and the best we can offer is workarounds and advice. There are certain things the platform will never do gracefully. I tend to draw the line at fixes/extensions that involve: * Risky VB programming practices (handling Object pointers as longs, LSet abuse, etc.) * Extensive use of the Windows API. Just way out of my field of expertise. Should be delivered as a .DLL, anyway. * Reliance on version-specific quirks or bugs * Undocumented features (although some, like Decompile, are essential) -Ken Biedermeier - a German furniture style of the early-to-mid 19th century. A break from the highly decorative styles which preceded it, Biedermeier emphasized durable construction, the intrinsic beauty of the wood, restrained decoration, and simplicity of design. Some of the pieces belonging to this style have a very modern look to them. From jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com Wed Mar 10 21:37:58 2004 From: jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com (John W. Colby) Date: Wed, 10 Mar 2004 22:37:58 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Framework Discussion - Who's following this In-Reply-To: <005201c4070e$14499640$2a3ca8c0@TEXASSYSTEMS.COM> Message-ID: >Evolution is a valid development method, especially when the path ahead is not clear. I often find, though, that doing an informal design using pencil and paper saves time. It helps separate needs from wants. Do I really need 3-D animated text on my Message Box replacement? It may be vital, but if it isn't, leave it out for now. Which is part of the goal of this discussion. I would love to assist our members in avoiding what I went through! I learned about frameworks by using the toolboxes that Borland provided back in the mid to late 80s when they were trying to promote Turbo Pascal. I did not truly understand the concept, I just used the toolboxes. Of course back then Turbo Pascal didn't have OO, but once it did, suddenly the concepts behind a framework became a little clearer as I studied OO, inheritance, subclassing, and all that stuff. Then came Access with objects, methods and properties but strangely... no inheritance. 8-( Sigh. I was so busy trying to absorb the Windows / Access methodology - events, drag and drop design, code behind forms etc - that I kind of lost site of the framework concept and simply designed a library. Eventually as I added functionality to the library I realized that I was designing stuff that was generic enough to be reusable, and slowly a VERY crude framework just started emerging from the muck. Unfortunately I didn't understand classes and indeed had never even heard of Withevents so I did things like collections storing collections keyed on form names containing pointers to controls... Really messy stuff, but as I said I didn't understand classes; and it worked but REALLY MESSY. Then a certain Russian gentleman who shall remain unnamed - well ok, it was Shamil Salakhetdinov (shamil at smsconsulting.spb.ru) - started popping up in AccessD and dropping little tidbits and teasers about Withevents. Even with years of programming and indeed years of Access, for some reason it took me three tries across a 1.5 year period of time to finally understand Withevents, and Withevents gave me a reason to use classes so I had to learn them. Once I had a "good grip" on those two technologies (and I use "good grip" loosely), I launched into a redesign of my original "framework" (which I use VERY loosely), eventually building C2DbFWA2K which is my current framework. It is heavily class and Withevent based. Unfortunately as we all know, if we are going to grow we are going to do things that simply don't make sense in the light of what we know today. My 2nd generation framework does things I wouldn't do today and I think it will be worthwhile to do a third generation. Furthermore I'm beginning to see how some of this stuff could port rather nicely to .net! This discussion allows me to do a design while "talking out" the design concepts with a group of developers many of whom are more experienced than I am. IF I can get those developers to pipe up and tell me when I am doing stupid stuff, this third generation framework may be a solid piece of work. Not that my last one wasn't, I am quite proud of what it does, but it can be much better. And finally, this discussion allows me to encourage a whole group of "youngsters and not so youngsters" who have not ventured in to these waters to do so. I think I (or hopefully WE) can save some of our group members a lot of pain that they don't need to experience. Classes, Withevents and Frameworks are subjects that are just very difficult to find information on, at least in the Access environment, yet are technologies that once understood completely changed the way I develop applications. It would be nice to get a strong core of our members using this stuff for the very selfish reason that then I will have others to bang ideas off of and "borrow" ideas from! John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Ken Ismert Sent: Wednesday, March 10, 2004 9:11 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: [AccessD] Framework Discussion - Who's following this John, >Yea... in a perfect world. Unfortunately for most of us a framework is not >a project which we spec out and write, but rather a living entity that we >add functionality to on a weekly basis. Thus feature bloat is an inherent >part of doing business, and there is never a finish, much less a timely one! Evolution is a valid development method, especially when the path ahead is not clear. I often find, though, that doing an informal design using pencil and paper saves time. It helps separate needs from wants. Do I really need 3-D animated text on my Message Box replacement? It may be vital, but if it isn't, leave it out for now. Of course, a framework implies an organization of function. So, how do we organize a constantly changing function set? By providing standard methods of extending the framework. Careful design here can have an enormous payoff. This is where interfaces can play a role. > ... I think it is important to NEVER accept the limitations of your >platform. Much of what my framework does is nothing more than an attempt by >me to program around the limitations of Access ... Removing arbitrary limits is a worthy pursuit. Don't like the [Forms]![Form]![Control] method of synchronization? Replace it with your own global parameter collection. Want to enforce standard behavior for ComboBox NotInList events? Write an event-sinking class that provides that functionality. All good. The tools of object programming and abstraction give us ample power to work around such limitations. It gets a little trickier when dealing with the platform's warts, like not automatically terminating an out-of-process object. Here, limits can't be satisfactorily removed, and the best we can offer is workarounds and advice. There are certain things the platform will never do gracefully. I tend to draw the line at fixes/extensions that involve: * Risky VB programming practices (handling Object pointers as longs, LSet abuse, etc.) * Extensive use of the Windows API. Just way out of my field of expertise. Should be delivered as a .DLL, anyway. * Reliance on version-specific quirks or bugs * Undocumented features (although some, like Decompile, are essential) -Ken Biedermeier - a German furniture style of the early-to-mid 19th century. A break from the highly decorative styles which preceded it, Biedermeier emphasized durable construction, the intrinsic beauty of the wood, restrained decoration, and simplicity of design. Some of the pieces belonging to this style have a very modern look to them. -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From GregSmith at starband.net Wed Mar 10 22:30:36 2004 From: GregSmith at starband.net (Greg Smith) Date: Wed, 10 Mar 2004 22:30:36 -0600 Subject: [AccessD] Converting Access 97 to Access XP FE& BE In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <200403110419.i2B4JJi9022026@osiris.email.starband.net> Thanks Charlotte. I have Speed Ferret and will use that to find all instances. Greg Smith -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Charlotte Foust Sent: Wednesday, March 10, 2004 3:12 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] Converting Access 97 to Access XP FE& BE Unless you're planning on using ADO exclusively, DAO works just fine in XP, and you still have to fall back on DAO for somethings anyhow. XP has no problem with either CurrentDB or CurrentProject, and there is a certain basic support for both ADO and DAO built into XP even if you remove *both* the references. I recommend you go through and specifically change your declarations throughout to DAO.Recordset, DAO.Database, etc., both to remove any confusion the engine has and to make it easier to spot them in your code. There are certain objects that have the same name in both models, and without the specific declaration, Access can get them mixed up and think you're trying to use an invalid method or property. Charlotte Foust -----Original Message----- From: GregSmith at starband.net [mailto:GregSmith at starband.net] Sent: Wednesday, March 10, 2004 11:48 AM To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: [AccessD] Converting Access 97 to Access XP FE& BE Hi Everyone...again. I have no clue what happened to that last message....Sometimes fast computers can be a great disadvantage...sorry 'bout that. I'm in the process of converting a rather complex Access 97 database (FE is about 8 meg, BE with data is about 500 meg) to Access XP (or 2002 if you prefer). This is also a tightly secured database, using access's From jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com Wed Mar 10 22:43:29 2004 From: jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com (John W. Colby) Date: Wed, 10 Mar 2004 23:43:29 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] ParamArray problem Message-ID: I am doing an init() method of a class that looks like: Public Sub Init(ByRef robjParent As Object, ParamArray lDepObjsArr() As Variant) where robjParent = a pointer to the parent class (ME) and ParamArray lDepObjsArr() As Variant MAY BE an array of dependent object classes but specifically at the moment isn't being passed anything. I.e. the calling function looks like MyClass.Init me I am passing in a pointer to self in the first parameter and nothing at all for the array. Since it is an array that can contain variable number of objects I expected it to allow this. However when I get inside the init() the lDepObjsArr has something in it. That something is NOT a class, and I can't debug.print the value... What the heck is going on here? Can I not do this (not pass anything to a paramarray? John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com From stuart at lexacorp.com.pg Wed Mar 10 23:00:19 2004 From: stuart at lexacorp.com.pg (Stuart McLachlan) Date: Thu, 11 Mar 2004 15:00:19 +1000 Subject: [AccessD] ParamArray problem In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <40507F03.10953.19DE362@localhost> On 10 Mar 2004 at 23:43, John W. Colby wrote: > What the heck is going on here? Can I not do this (not pass anything to a > paramarray? > You can, but the way to check for an empty ParamArray is not obvious: "To detect an empty ParamArray, test to see if the array?s upper bound is less than its lower bound." -- Lexacorp Ltd http://www.lexacorp.com.pg Information Technology Consultancy, Software Development,System Support. From bruce_bruen at mlc.com.au Wed Mar 10 22:58:06 2004 From: bruce_bruen at mlc.com.au (bruce_bruen at mlc.com.au) Date: Thu, 11 Mar 2004 15:58:06 +1100 Subject: [AccessD] ParamArray problem Message-ID: John, What you've written it looks right, bu I must ask how do you know there is "something" in the ParamArray? I would not expect it to be equal to a null, it is (I can remember which) actually a stack or heap pointer. I also seem to remember that passing objects in paramarrays is a nono you can only pass value items (???) , but its been months since I've VBA'd so to speak so I could be wrong on that. ...meanwhile back to the C# hth Bruce "John W. Colby" com> cc: Sent by: Subject: [AccessD] ParamArray problem accessd-bounces at databasea dvisors.com 11/03/2004 15:43 Please respond to Access Developers discussion and problem solving I am doing an init() method of a class that looks like: Public Sub Init(ByRef robjParent As Object, ParamArray lDepObjsArr() As Variant) where robjParent = a pointer to the parent class (ME) and ParamArray lDepObjsArr() As Variant MAY BE an array of dependent object classes but specifically at the moment isn't being passed anything. I.e. the calling function looks like MyClass.Init me I am passing in a pointer to self in the first parameter and nothing at all for the array. Since it is an array that can contain variable number of objects I expected it to allow this. However when I get inside the init() the lDepObjsArr has something in it. That something is NOT a class, and I can't debug.print the value... What the heck is going on here? Can I not do this (not pass anything to a paramarray? John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com Wed Mar 10 23:11:22 2004 From: jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com (John W. Colby) Date: Thu, 11 Mar 2004 00:11:22 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] DependentObjects class Message-ID: I am working on a dependentobjects class, i.e. a class with a collection which holds objects (classes) where the control or form is dependent on the current control. Combo A changes. Combo B uses Combo A to filter itself. Combo B is "dependent" on combo A and must be requeried whenever Combo A changes. There is a case where two combos on a form may display data from the same table. For example two combos both display cities from the cities lookup table. If Combo A NotInList adds a new city. Combo B needs to requery in order to display that new city if necessary. However if Combo B adds the city, then Combo A needs to requery. Obviously if we add combo A to combo B's DependentObject collection and we add Combo B to Combo A's dependent object collection, then we start an endless loop where A requeries B which requeries A which requeries B... This is a case where I programmed a solution working but it was ugly. How would you solve this problem? John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com From jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com Wed Mar 10 23:14:31 2004 From: jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com (John W. Colby) Date: Thu, 11 Mar 2004 00:14:31 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] ParamArray problem In-Reply-To: <40507F03.10953.19DE362@localhost> Message-ID: But why is there "something in there"? I am not passing anything. However Dim Obj As Variant For Each Obj In mcolDepObj Obj.Requery Next Obj performs an obj.requery even though the array is "empty", i.e I haven't passed anything in yet. John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Stuart McLachlan Sent: Thursday, March 11, 2004 12:00 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problemsolving Subject: Re: [AccessD] ParamArray problem On 10 Mar 2004 at 23:43, John W. Colby wrote: > What the heck is going on here? Can I not do this (not pass anything to a > paramarray? > You can, but the way to check for an empty ParamArray is not obvious: "To detect an empty ParamArray, test to see if the array?s upper bound is less than its lower bound." -- Lexacorp Ltd http://www.lexacorp.com.pg Information Technology Consultancy, Software Development,System Support. -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com Wed Mar 10 23:17:54 2004 From: jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com (John W. Colby) Date: Thu, 11 Mar 2004 00:17:54 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] ParamArray problem In-Reply-To: Message-ID: >I also seem to remember that passing objects in paramarrays is a nono you can only pass value items (???) Help says objects can be passed, or at least the array can be declared as type object. And I was using a "for each next" to iterate the array and found something in an "empty" array. John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of bruce_bruen at mlc.com.au Sent: Wednesday, March 10, 2004 11:58 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] ParamArray problem John, What you've written it looks right, bu I must ask how do you know there is "something" in the ParamArray? I would not expect it to be equal to a null, it is (I can remember which) actually a stack or heap pointer. I also seem to remember that passing objects in paramarrays is a nono you can only pass value items (???) , but its been months since I've VBA'd so to speak so I could be wrong on that. ...meanwhile back to the C# hth Bruce "John W. Colby" com> cc: Sent by: Subject: [AccessD] ParamArray problem accessd-bounces at databasea dvisors.com 11/03/2004 15:43 Please respond to Access Developers discussion and problem solving I am doing an init() method of a class that looks like: Public Sub Init(ByRef robjParent As Object, ParamArray lDepObjsArr() As Variant) where robjParent = a pointer to the parent class (ME) and ParamArray lDepObjsArr() As Variant MAY BE an array of dependent object classes but specifically at the moment isn't being passed anything. I.e. the calling function looks like MyClass.Init me I am passing in a pointer to self in the first parameter and nothing at all for the array. Since it is an array that can contain variable number of objects I expected it to allow this. However when I get inside the init() the lDepObjsArr has something in it. That something is NOT a class, and I can't debug.print the value... What the heck is going on here? Can I not do this (not pass anything to a paramarray? John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From bruce_bruen at mlc.com.au Wed Mar 10 23:39:31 2004 From: bruce_bruen at mlc.com.au (bruce_bruen at mlc.com.au) Date: Thu, 11 Mar 2004 16:39:31 +1100 Subject: [AccessD] ParamArray problem Message-ID: >"for each next" to iterate the array and found something in an "empty" array." Now that does sound strange. The VB help for .NET certainly says that FOREACH should not execute on a paramarray with .length=0 However, prior to .NET all paramarrays were passed as byrefs (hence my comment on them being heap pointers) in .NET they are always byvals. Looks like there may be a situation in the VBA where the pointer is initialised to a "random" heap pointer under some circumstances - that would be bloody great hole! have fun B "John W. Colby" Sent by: cc: accessd-bounces at databasea Subject: RE: [AccessD] ParamArray problem dvisors.com 11/03/2004 16:17 Please respond to Access Developers discussion and problem solving >I also seem to remember that passing objects in paramarrays is a nono you can only pass value items (???) Help says objects can be passed, or at least the array can be declared as type object. And I was using a "for each next" to iterate the array and found something in an "empty" array. John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of bruce_bruen at mlc.com.au Sent: Wednesday, March 10, 2004 11:58 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] ParamArray problem John, What you've written it looks right, bu I must ask how do you know there is "something" in the ParamArray? I would not expect it to be equal to a null, it is (I can remember which) actually a stack or heap pointer. I also seem to remember that passing objects in paramarrays is a nono you can only pass value items (???) , but its been months since I've VBA'd so to speak so I could be wrong on that. ...meanwhile back to the C# hth Bruce "John W. Colby" com> cc: Sent by: Subject: [AccessD] ParamArray problem accessd-bounces at databasea dvisors.com 11/03/2004 15:43 Please respond to Access Developers discussion and problem solving I am doing an init() method of a class that looks like: Public Sub Init(ByRef robjParent As Object, ParamArray lDepObjsArr() As Variant) where robjParent = a pointer to the parent class (ME) and ParamArray lDepObjsArr() As Variant MAY BE an array of dependent object classes but specifically at the moment isn't being passed anything. I.e. the calling function looks like MyClass.Init me I am passing in a pointer to self in the first parameter and nothing at all for the array. Since it is an array that can contain variable number of objects I expected it to allow this. However when I get inside the init() the lDepObjsArr has something in it. That something is NOT a class, and I can't debug.print the value... What the heck is going on here? Can I not do this (not pass anything to a paramarray? John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From stuart at lexacorp.com.pg Wed Mar 10 23:39:38 2004 From: stuart at lexacorp.com.pg (Stuart McLachlan) Date: Thu, 11 Mar 2004 15:39:38 +1000 Subject: [AccessD] DependentObjects class In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <4050883A.7227.1C1E18E@localhost> On 11 Mar 2004 at 0:11, John W. Colby wrote: > I am working on a dependentobjects class, i.e. a class with a collection > which holds objects (classes) where the control or form is dependent on the > current control. Combo A changes. Combo B uses Combo A to filter itself. > Combo B is "dependent" on combo A and must be requeried whenever Combo A > changes. > > This is a case where I programmed a solution working but it was ugly. How > would you solve this problem? > I doubt if I would do it with a class. It's not *that* common a requirement and there are so many different ways that you can end up with circular references, CtlA - CtlB - CtlC - CtlD...... CtlX - CtlC etc that trying to allow for them would end up with such code bolat that the whole thing became inefficient. -- Lexacorp Ltd http://www.lexacorp.com.pg Information Technology Consultancy, Software Development,System Support. From jwelz at hotmail.com Thu Mar 11 00:05:12 2004 From: jwelz at hotmail.com (Jürgen Welz) Date: Wed, 10 Mar 2004 23:05:12 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] ParamArray problem Message-ID: In .NET, if you pass an object ByVal, it is still passed ByRef. No error or notification. It just changes it. Haven't looked into the Paramarray question as I've always passed arrays of strong types or of variants. Ciao J?rgen Welz Edmonton, Alberta jwelz at hotmail.com >From: bruce_bruen at mlc.com.au > > > > > > >"for each next" to iterate the array and found something >in an "empty" array." > >Now that does sound strange. > >The VB help for .NET certainly says that FOREACH should not execute on a >paramarray with .length=0 >However, prior to .NET all paramarrays were passed as byrefs (hence my >comment on them being heap pointers) in .NET they are always byvals. > >Looks like there may be a situation in the VBA where the pointer is >initialised to a "random" heap pointer >under some circumstances - that would be bloody great hole! > >have fun >B > > > > "John W. Colby" > > > > > > >I also seem to remember that passing objects in paramarrays is a nono you >can only pass value items (???) > >Help says objects can be passed, or at least the array can be declared as >type object. > >And I was using a "for each next" to iterate the array and found something >in an "empty" array. > >John W. Colby >www.ColbyConsulting.com > >-----Original Message----- >From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com >[mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of >bruce_bruen at mlc.com.au >Sent: Wednesday, March 10, 2004 11:58 PM >To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving >Subject: Re: [AccessD] ParamArray problem > > > > > > >John, > >What you've written it looks right, bu I must ask how do you know there is >"something" in the ParamArray? I would not expect it to be equal to a >null, it is (I can remember which) actually a stack or heap pointer. I >also seem to remember that passing objects in paramarrays is a nono you can >only pass value items (???) , but its been months since I've VBA'd so to >speak so I could be wrong on that. > > >...meanwhile back to the C# > >hth >Bruce > > > > "John W. Colby" > > com> cc: > Sent by: Subject: [AccessD] >ParamArray problem > accessd-bounces at databasea > dvisors.com > > > 11/03/2004 15:43 > Please respond to Access > Developers discussion and > problem solving > > > > > > >I am doing an init() method of a class that looks like: > >Public Sub Init(ByRef robjParent As Object, ParamArray lDepObjsArr() As >Variant) > >where robjParent = a pointer to the parent class (ME) > >and ParamArray lDepObjsArr() As Variant MAY BE an array of dependent object >classes but specifically at the moment isn't being passed anything. I.e. >the calling function looks like > >MyClass.Init me > >I am passing in a pointer to self in the first parameter and nothing at all >for the array. > >Since it is an array that can contain variable number of objects I expected >it to allow this. However when I get inside the init() the lDepObjsArr has >something in it. That something is NOT a class, and I can't debug.print >the >value... > >What the heck is going on here? Can I not do this (not pass anything to a >paramarray? > >John W. Colby >www.ColbyConsulting.com _________________________________________________________________ STOP MORE SPAM with the MSN Premium and get 2 months FREE* http://join.msn.com/?pgmarket=en-ca&page=byoa/prem&xAPID=1994&DI=1034&SU=http://hotmail.com/enca&HL=Market_MSNIS_Taglines From jwelz at hotmail.com Thu Mar 11 00:56:53 2004 From: jwelz at hotmail.com (Jürgen Welz) Date: Wed, 10 Mar 2004 23:56:53 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] DependentObjects class Message-ID: I don't like using control tags to hold temporary data and they lack persistence as well, so I'd append a property to the each form containing the combos. When one updated, it would set its own property to the current time. If the dependent control property is older by more than 3 seconds (how often are users going to change two separate combo entries more quickly than 3 seconds apart?), requery it and in either event, update the dependant's property. I'd use a property that used the name of the control with a suffix like "Time". I use a form property in the name of each control to hold a security long of paired bit flags (edit, add, read, hidden). To append a date property: Sub ctlprop() Dim prp As Property Set prp = CurrentDb.Containers("forms")"frm1").CreateProperty("cboCityTime", dbDate, Now) CurrentDb.Containers("forms")("frm1").Properties.Append prp CurrentDb.Containers("forms")("frm1).Properties.Refresh End Sub Once the property has been created, your code can set and read it. CurrentDb.Containers("forms")("frm1").Properties("cboCityTime") = Now dteVariable = CurrentDb.Containers("forms")("frm1").Properties("cboCityTime") You can create a reference as in the procedure in which it was created and just set the variable: Dim prp As Property Dim db As Database Set db = CurrentDb Set prp = db.Containers("forms").Documents(1).Properties("cboCityTime") MsgBox prp Ciao J?rgen Welz Edmonton, Alberta jwelz at hotmail.com >From: "John W. Colby" > >I am working on a dependentobjects class, i.e. a class with a collection >which holds objects (classes) where the control or form is dependent on the >current control. Combo A changes. Combo B uses Combo A to filter itself. >Combo B is "dependent" on combo A and must be requeried whenever Combo A >changes. > >There is a case where two combos on a form may display data from the same >table. For example two combos both display cities from the cities lookup >table. If Combo A NotInList adds a new city. Combo B needs to requery in >order to display that new city if necessary. However if Combo B adds the >city, then Combo A needs to requery. > >Obviously if we add combo A to combo B's DependentObject collection and we >add Combo B to Combo A's dependent object collection, then we start an >endless loop where A requeries B which requeries A which requeries B... > >This is a case where I programmed a solution working but it was ugly. How >would you solve this problem? > >John W. Colby >www.ColbyConsulting.com _________________________________________________________________ MSN Premium helps eliminate e-mail viruses. Get 2 months FREE* http://join.msn.com/?pgmarket=en-ca&page=byoa/prem&xAPID=1994&DI=1034&SU=http://hotmail.com/enca&HL=Market_MSNIS_Taglines From caa at highway.com.br Thu Mar 11 02:21:17 2004 From: caa at highway.com.br (Carlos Alberto Alves) Date: Thu, 11 Mar 2004 05:21:17 -0300 Subject: [AccessD] Framework Discussion - Who's following this In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On Mon, 8 Mar 2004 13:43:55 -0500, John W. Colby wrote: > My objective with this discussion is to explain the concepts and > implementation of frameworks in sufficient detail that anyone willing to > learn can pick up at least a few new ideas, understand classes and how > they > can solve problems, understand withevents and how using them allows us to > encapsulate entire subsystems into an object, and understand Frameworks > and... A B A -- ****************************** * Carlos Alberto Alves * * Child Neurologist * * Systems Analyst/Programmer * * Rio de Janeiro, Brazil * * mailto:caa at highway.com.br * ****************************** From accessd667 at yahoo.com Thu Mar 11 02:24:39 2004 From: accessd667 at yahoo.com (S D) Date: Thu, 11 Mar 2004 00:24:39 -0800 (PST) Subject: [AccessD] Setting/ retrieving Field properties? Solved! (+code) In-Reply-To: <404F4DE6.2010205@shaw.ca> Message-ID: <20040311082439.93568.qmail@web61105.mail.yahoo.com> Thnx for the replies. I've got it working! Sub SetAllowZeroLenght(strTablename As String, strFieldName As String, blnValue As Boolean) Dim db As DAO.Database Dim intI As Integer Dim intJ As Integer Dim tdf As DAO.TableDef Dim fLd As DAO.Field Dim dtmDate As Date Dim strValue As String Set db = CurrentDb() For intI = 0 To db.TableDefs.Count - 1 Set tdf = db.TableDefs(intI) If UCase(tdf.Name) = UCase(strTablename) Then dtmDate = Format(Date, "dd mmmm yyyy mm:hh:ss") strValue = "Printing properties for table: [" & tdf.Name & "]" db.Execute ("INSERT INTO tLog VALUES(#" & dtmDate & "#," & "'" & strValue & "'" & ")") Debug.Print "-------------------------------------------------------" Debug.Print "Printing properties for table: " & tdf.Name Debug.Print "-------------------------------------------------------" For intJ = 0 To tdf.Fields.Count - 1 Set fLd = tdf.Fields(intJ) If UCase(fLd.Name) = UCase(strFieldName) Then Debug.Print fLd.Name, fLd.AllowZeroLength Debug.Print "" Exit Sub End If Next intJ End If Next intI End Sub MartyConnelly wrote: Here is an example that resets all fields in all tables to allow zero length, skips around errors with on error resume next ACC: How to Set AllowZeroLength Property to Yes in All Tables http://support.microsoft.com/default.aspx?scid=kb;en-us;130336&Product=acc S D wrote: >Hi group, > >I need to set the field properties of a lot of tables. I want to do this using VBA. >I was reading Access 2000 Developers Handbook and I found the code printed below. However these are not the properties I expected. >I need to set field properties like: >Fiel Size >Required >Allow Zerow Length > >Any idea how I can do this? > >TIA > >Sander > > >Private Sub Command0_Click() > Dim db As DAO.Database > Dim intI As Integer > Dim tdf As DAO.TableDef > > Set db = CurrentDb() > > For intI = 0 To db.TableDefs.Count - 1 > Set tdf = db.TableDefs(intI) > If tdf.Name = "V3_44_RSDTD1" Then > Debug.Print "Printing properties for table: " & tdf.Name > Call ListTableProps(tdf.Name) > MsgBox "Properties listed!" > End If > Next intI > > MsgBox "Done! Tables found: " & intI > >End Sub >Sub ListTableProps(strTable As String) > Dim db As Database > Dim tdf As TableDef > Dim prp As DAO.Property > > Set db = CurrentDb() > Set tdf = db(strTable) > > For Each prp In tdf.Properties > Debug.Print prp.Name, prp.Type, prp.Value > Next prp >End Sub > > >--------------------------------- >Do you Yahoo!? >Yahoo! Search - Find what youre looking for faster. > > -- Marty Connelly Victoria, B.C. Canada -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com --------------------------------- Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Search - Find what you?re looking for faster. From gustav at cactus.dk Thu Mar 11 02:45:30 2004 From: gustav at cactus.dk (Gustav Brock) Date: Thu, 11 Mar 2004 09:45:30 +0100 Subject: [AccessD] Images on Continuous Forms or Reports In-Reply-To: <000501c406f0$2ff48c10$de1811d8@DanWaters> References: <000501c406f0$2ff48c10$de1811d8@DanWaters> Message-ID: <1613215273.20040311094530@cactus.dk> Hi Dan > What I would like to be able to do is have the detail section of the report > (or form) grow or shrink in accordance with the size of the image or whether > or not the image exists. When I started this I assumed that the image > control would have grow and shrink properties, but NO they don't! That depends. For Access 97 you cannot adjust the height of the detail section during formatting or printing. That should be possible for A2000+. /gustav From jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com Thu Mar 11 06:14:01 2004 From: jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com (John W. Colby) Date: Thu, 11 Mar 2004 07:14:01 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] DependentObjects class In-Reply-To: <4050883A.7227.1C1E18E@localhost> Message-ID: Stuart, Every one of my data aware control classes uses this class. And the object is a simple clean method of preventing a class from requerying a second time. John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Stuart McLachlan Sent: Thursday, March 11, 2004 12:40 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problemsolving Subject: Re: [AccessD] DependentObjects class On 11 Mar 2004 at 0:11, John W. Colby wrote: > I am working on a dependentobjects class, i.e. a class with a collection > which holds objects (classes) where the control or form is dependent on the > current control. Combo A changes. Combo B uses Combo A to filter itself. > Combo B is "dependent" on combo A and must be requeried whenever Combo A > changes. > > This is a case where I programmed a solution working but it was ugly. How > would you solve this problem? > I doubt if I would do it with a class. It's not *that* common a requirement and there are so many different ways that you can end up with circular references, CtlA - CtlB - CtlC - CtlD...... CtlX - CtlC etc that trying to allow for them would end up with such code bolat that the whole thing became inefficient. -- Lexacorp Ltd http://www.lexacorp.com.pg Information Technology Consultancy, Software Development,System Support. -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com Thu Mar 11 06:17:17 2004 From: jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com (John W. Colby) Date: Thu, 11 Mar 2004 07:17:17 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] ParamArray problem In-Reply-To: Message-ID: >Haven't looked into the Paramarray question as I've always passed arrays of strong types or of variants. In this case the array will be passing in objects, i.e. classes, but the class instances can be a combo class, a text class, a list class etc. Since each is a different class, I pass them as objects. Indeed you dim the array as specific class types AFAICT. John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of J?rgen Welz Sent: Thursday, March 11, 2004 1:05 AM To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: RE: [AccessD] ParamArray problem In .NET, if you pass an object ByVal, it is still passed ByRef. No error or notification. It just changes it. Haven't looked into the Paramarray question as I've always passed arrays of strong types or of variants. Ciao J?rgen Welz Edmonton, Alberta jwelz at hotmail.com >From: bruce_bruen at mlc.com.au > > > > > > >"for each next" to iterate the array and found something >in an "empty" array." > >Now that does sound strange. > >The VB help for .NET certainly says that FOREACH should not execute on a >paramarray with .length=0 >However, prior to .NET all paramarrays were passed as byrefs (hence my >comment on them being heap pointers) in .NET they are always byvals. > >Looks like there may be a situation in the VBA where the pointer is >initialised to a "random" heap pointer >under some circumstances - that would be bloody great hole! > >have fun >B > > > > "John W. Colby" > > > > > > >I also seem to remember that passing objects in paramarrays is a nono you >can only pass value items (???) > >Help says objects can be passed, or at least the array can be declared as >type object. > >And I was using a "for each next" to iterate the array and found something >in an "empty" array. > >John W. Colby >www.ColbyConsulting.com > >-----Original Message----- >From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com >[mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of >bruce_bruen at mlc.com.au >Sent: Wednesday, March 10, 2004 11:58 PM >To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving >Subject: Re: [AccessD] ParamArray problem > > > > > > >John, > >What you've written it looks right, bu I must ask how do you know there is >"something" in the ParamArray? I would not expect it to be equal to a >null, it is (I can remember which) actually a stack or heap pointer. I >also seem to remember that passing objects in paramarrays is a nono you can >only pass value items (???) , but its been months since I've VBA'd so to >speak so I could be wrong on that. > > >...meanwhile back to the C# > >hth >Bruce > > > > "John W. Colby" > > com> cc: > Sent by: Subject: [AccessD] >ParamArray problem > accessd-bounces at databasea > dvisors.com > > > 11/03/2004 15:43 > Please respond to Access > Developers discussion and > problem solving > > > > > > >I am doing an init() method of a class that looks like: > >Public Sub Init(ByRef robjParent As Object, ParamArray lDepObjsArr() As >Variant) > >where robjParent = a pointer to the parent class (ME) > >and ParamArray lDepObjsArr() As Variant MAY BE an array of dependent object >classes but specifically at the moment isn't being passed anything. I.e. >the calling function looks like > >MyClass.Init me > >I am passing in a pointer to self in the first parameter and nothing at all >for the array. > >Since it is an array that can contain variable number of objects I expected >it to allow this. However when I get inside the init() the lDepObjsArr has >something in it. That something is NOT a class, and I can't debug.print >the >value... > >What the heck is going on here? Can I not do this (not pass anything to a >paramarray? > >John W. Colby >www.ColbyConsulting.com _________________________________________________________________ STOP MORE SPAM with the MSN Premium and get 2 months FREE* http://join.msn.com/?pgmarket=en-ca&page=byoa/prem&xAPID=1994&DI=1034&SU=htt p://hotmail.com/enca&HL=Market_MSNIS_Taglines -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From Jdemarco at hudsonhealthplan.org Thu Mar 11 07:08:22 2004 From: Jdemarco at hudsonhealthplan.org (Jim DeMarco) Date: Thu, 11 Mar 2004 08:08:22 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Combo on Continuous Form Message-ID: <22F1CCD5171D17419CB37FEEE09D5F99030FE527@TTNEXCHSRV1.hshhp.com> Since it's a continuous form the drop down will repopulate for every record anyway (even though you won't physically see that) so the header may still make sense. Keep a hidden text box in the header as well for the unique record identifier then you can refill the header combo with the correct list values based on the text box value. Make sense? Jim DeMarco -----Original Message----- From: Mark A Matte [mailto:markamatte at hotmail.com] Sent: Wednesday, March 10, 2004 4:50 PM To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: RE: [AccessD] Combo on Continuous Form Because the form I'm building will be the same form for multiple products...but each product will have different attributes...and different values available depending on the product and the attribute. So the dropdown on each row will have different values...depending on what attribute is on that row. Thanks, Mark >From: "Jim DeMarco" >Reply-To: Access Developers discussion and problem >solving >To: "Access Developers discussion and problem solving" > >Subject: RE: [AccessD] Combo on Continuous Form >Date: Wed, 10 Mar 2004 10:28:35 -0500 > >Mark, > >Why not put it in the form Header instead? > >Jim DeMarco > >-----Original Message----- >From: Mark A Matte [mailto:markamatte at hotmail.com] >Sent: Tuesday, March 09, 2004 9:58 PM >To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com >Subject: [AccessD] Combo on Continuous Form > > >Hello, > >In A2k I want a combo box on a each row of the continuous form that filters >by the current record on that continuous form. Suggestions anyone? > >Thanks, > >Mark > >_________________________________________________________________ >Get business advice and resources to improve your work life, from bCentral. >http://special.msn.com/bcentral/loudclear.armx > >-- >_______________________________________________ >AccessD mailing list >AccessD at databaseadvisors.com >http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd >Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > > > >*********************************************************************************** >"This electronic message is intended to be for the use only of the named >recipient, and may contain information from Hudson Health Plan (HHP) that >is confidential or privileged. If you are not the intended recipient, you >are hereby notified that any disclosure, copying, distribution or use of >the contents of this message is strictly prohibited. If you have received >this message in error or are not the named recipient, please notify us >immediately, either by contacting the sender at the electronic mail address >noted above or calling HHP at (914) 631-1611. If you are not the intended >recipient, please do not forward this email to anyone, and delete and >destroy all copies of this message. Thank You". >*********************************************************************************** > >-- >_______________________________________________ >AccessD mailing list >AccessD at databaseadvisors.com >http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd >Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com _________________________________________________________________ FREE pop-up blocking with the new MSN Toolbar - get it now! http://clk.atdmt.com/AVE/go/onm00200415ave/direct/01/ -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com *********************************************************************************** "This electronic message is intended to be for the use only of the named recipient, and may contain information from Hudson Health Plan (HHP) that is confidential or privileged. If you are not the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any disclosure, copying, distribution or use of the contents of this message is strictly prohibited. If you have received this message in error or are not the named recipient, please notify us immediately, either by contacting the sender at the electronic mail address noted above or calling HHP at (914) 631-1611. If you are not the intended recipient, please do not forward this email to anyone, and delete and destroy all copies of this message. Thank You". *********************************************************************************** From jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com Thu Mar 11 07:13:48 2004 From: jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com (John W. Colby) Date: Thu, 11 Mar 2004 08:13:48 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] ParamArray problem In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Sorry, meant to say: >Indeed you CAN'T dim the array as specific class types AFAICT. If you look up ParamArrays in help it says that you can type the array as any of the built-in types including objects, but not custom types such as classes. John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of John W. Colby Sent: Thursday, March 11, 2004 7:17 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] ParamArray problem >Haven't looked into the Paramarray question as I've always passed arrays of strong types or of variants. In this case the array will be passing in objects, i.e. classes, but the class instances can be a combo class, a text class, a list class etc. Since each is a different class, I pass them as objects. Indeed you dim the array as specific class types AFAICT. John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of J?rgen Welz Sent: Thursday, March 11, 2004 1:05 AM To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: RE: [AccessD] ParamArray problem In .NET, if you pass an object ByVal, it is still passed ByRef. No error or notification. It just changes it. Haven't looked into the Paramarray question as I've always passed arrays of strong types or of variants. Ciao J?rgen Welz Edmonton, Alberta jwelz at hotmail.com >From: bruce_bruen at mlc.com.au > > > > > > >"for each next" to iterate the array and found something >in an "empty" array." > >Now that does sound strange. > >The VB help for .NET certainly says that FOREACH should not execute on a >paramarray with .length=0 >However, prior to .NET all paramarrays were passed as byrefs (hence my >comment on them being heap pointers) in .NET they are always byvals. > >Looks like there may be a situation in the VBA where the pointer is >initialised to a "random" heap pointer >under some circumstances - that would be bloody great hole! > >have fun >B > > > > "John W. Colby" > > > > > > >I also seem to remember that passing objects in paramarrays is a nono you >can only pass value items (???) > >Help says objects can be passed, or at least the array can be declared as >type object. > >And I was using a "for each next" to iterate the array and found something >in an "empty" array. > >John W. Colby >www.ColbyConsulting.com > >-----Original Message----- >From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com >[mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of >bruce_bruen at mlc.com.au >Sent: Wednesday, March 10, 2004 11:58 PM >To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving >Subject: Re: [AccessD] ParamArray problem > > > > > > >John, > >What you've written it looks right, bu I must ask how do you know there is >"something" in the ParamArray? I would not expect it to be equal to a >null, it is (I can remember which) actually a stack or heap pointer. I >also seem to remember that passing objects in paramarrays is a nono you can >only pass value items (???) , but its been months since I've VBA'd so to >speak so I could be wrong on that. > > >...meanwhile back to the C# > >hth >Bruce > > > > "John W. Colby" > > com> cc: > Sent by: Subject: [AccessD] >ParamArray problem > accessd-bounces at databasea > dvisors.com > > > 11/03/2004 15:43 > Please respond to Access > Developers discussion and > problem solving > > > > > > >I am doing an init() method of a class that looks like: > >Public Sub Init(ByRef robjParent As Object, ParamArray lDepObjsArr() As >Variant) > >where robjParent = a pointer to the parent class (ME) > >and ParamArray lDepObjsArr() As Variant MAY BE an array of dependent object >classes but specifically at the moment isn't being passed anything. I.e. >the calling function looks like > >MyClass.Init me > >I am passing in a pointer to self in the first parameter and nothing at all >for the array. > >Since it is an array that can contain variable number of objects I expected >it to allow this. However when I get inside the init() the lDepObjsArr has >something in it. That something is NOT a class, and I can't debug.print >the >value... > >What the heck is going on here? Can I not do this (not pass anything to a >paramarray? > >John W. Colby >www.ColbyConsulting.com _________________________________________________________________ STOP MORE SPAM with the MSN Premium and get 2 months FREE* http://join.msn.com/?pgmarket=en-ca&page=byoa/prem&xAPID=1994&DI=1034&SU=htt p://hotmail.com/enca&HL=Market_MSNIS_Taglines -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From Lembit.Soobik at t-online.de Thu Mar 11 07:27:04 2004 From: Lembit.Soobik at t-online.de (Lembit Soobik) Date: Thu, 11 Mar 2004 14:27:04 +0100 Subject: [AccessD] Form - Subform - Control Reference References: Message-ID: <0ee201c4076e$5461d070$0200a8c0@S856> How is the syntax if I am on... and want to reference a control on ... stop scratching your head. go to our website and you will find a nice table listing all the cases. Thanks to William Hindman, who provided this sheet. Lembit Soobik From reuben at gfconsultants.com Thu Mar 11 07:43:12 2004 From: reuben at gfconsultants.com (Reuben Cummings) Date: Thu, 11 Mar 2004 08:43:12 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Combo on Continuous Form In-Reply-To: <22F1CCD5171D17419CB37FEEE09D5F99030FE527@TTNEXCHSRV1.hshhp.com> Message-ID: Unless I'm missing something, this is something I do quite often. I base the combo on parameterized SQL (just like a parameter query but I paste the sql into the combo box) and requery the query on Got_Focus. You can also use On_Current - I have done it this way when I want to disable the combo in some records. Reuben Cummings GFC, LLC phone: 812.523.1017 email: reuben at gfconsultants.com > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Jim DeMarco > Sent: Thursday, March 11, 2004 8:08 AM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: RE: [AccessD] Combo on Continuous Form > > > Since it's a continuous form the drop down will repopulate for > every record anyway (even though you won't physically see that) > so the header may still make sense. Keep a hidden text box in > the header as well for the unique record identifier then you can > refill the header combo with the correct list values based on the > text box value. Make sense? > > Jim DeMarco > > -----Original Message----- > From: Mark A Matte [mailto:markamatte at hotmail.com] > Sent: Wednesday, March 10, 2004 4:50 PM > To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com > Subject: RE: [AccessD] Combo on Continuous Form > > > > Because the form I'm building will be the same form for multiple > products...but each product will have different attributes...and > different values available depending on the product and the > attribute. So the > dropdown on each row will have different values...depending on what > attribute is on that row. > > Thanks, > > Mark > > >From: "Jim DeMarco" > >Reply-To: Access Developers discussion and problem > >solving > >To: "Access Developers discussion and problem solving" > > > >Subject: RE: [AccessD] Combo on Continuous Form > >Date: Wed, 10 Mar 2004 10:28:35 -0500 > > > >Mark, > > > >Why not put it in the form Header instead? > > > >Jim DeMarco > > > >-----Original Message----- > >From: Mark A Matte [mailto:markamatte at hotmail.com] > >Sent: Tuesday, March 09, 2004 9:58 PM > >To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com > >Subject: [AccessD] Combo on Continuous Form > > > > > >Hello, > > > >In A2k I want a combo box on a each row of the continuous form > that filters > >by the current record on that continuous form. Suggestions anyone? > > > >Thanks, > > > >Mark > > > >_________________________________________________________________ > >Get business advice and resources to improve your work life, > from bCentral. > >http://special.msn.com/bcentral/loudclear.armx > > > >-- > >_______________________________________________ > >AccessD mailing list > >AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > >http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > >Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > > > > > > > > > > >***************************************************************** > ****************** > >"This electronic message is intended to be for the use only of > the named >recipient, and may contain information from Hudson > Health Plan (HHP) that >is confidential or privileged. If you > are not the intended recipient, you >are hereby notified that any > disclosure, copying, distribution or use of >the contents of this > message is strictly prohibited. If you have received >this > message in error or are not the named recipient, please notify us > >immediately, either by contacting the sender at the electronic > mail address > >noted above or calling HHP at (914) 631-1611. If you are not the > intended >recipient, please do not forward this email to anyone, > and delete and > >destroy all copies of this message. Thank You". > >***************************************************************** > ****************** > > > >-- > >_______________________________________________ > >AccessD mailing list > >AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > >http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > >Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > _________________________________________________________________ > FREE pop-up blocking with the new MSN Toolbar - get it now! > http://clk.atdmt.com/AVE/go/onm00200415ave/direct/01/ > > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > > > > ****************************************************************** > ***************** > "This electronic message is intended to be for the use only of > the named recipient, and may contain information from Hudson > Health Plan (HHP) that is confidential or privileged. If you are > not the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any > disclosure, copying, distribution or use of the contents of this > message is strictly prohibited. If you have received this > message in error or are not the named recipient, please notify us > immediately, either by contacting the sender at the electronic > mail address noted above or calling HHP at (914) 631-1611. If you > are not the intended recipient, please do not forward this email > to anyone, and delete and destroy all copies of this message. Thank You". > ****************************************************************** > ***************** > > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > From Jdemarco at hudsonhealthplan.org Thu Mar 11 08:08:50 2004 From: Jdemarco at hudsonhealthplan.org (Jim DeMarco) Date: Thu, 11 Mar 2004 09:08:50 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Combo on Continuous Form Message-ID: <22F1CCD5171D17419CB37FEEE09D5F99030FE52B@TTNEXCHSRV1.hshhp.com> Right but he's using a continuous form here with each row requiring a differing set of filter choices. Let's use an example of the first two rows being two different items as follows and using a combo box located on the continous form: Record 1 filters by: ItemA or ItemB Record 2 filters by: ItemC or ItemD I'm in row 1 and I select ItemA from the drop down (that is on the continuous form). All rows will show I've selected ItemA even those where ItemA is not applicable (due to the nature of continous forms unless I'm way off base here). I think this would confuse users. It's why I suggested putting the filter criteria in the header where it will only appear once and is always visible as you scroll the form and only shows the options available for the currently selected record. Jim DeMarco -----Original Message----- From: Reuben Cummings [mailto:reuben at gfconsultants.com] Sent: Thursday, March 11, 2004 8:43 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] Combo on Continuous Form Unless I'm missing something, this is something I do quite often. I base the combo on parameterized SQL (just like a parameter query but I paste the sql into the combo box) and requery the query on Got_Focus. You can also use On_Current - I have done it this way when I want to disable the combo in some records. Reuben Cummings GFC, LLC phone: 812.523.1017 email: reuben at gfconsultants.com > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Jim DeMarco > Sent: Thursday, March 11, 2004 8:08 AM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: RE: [AccessD] Combo on Continuous Form > > > Since it's a continuous form the drop down will repopulate for > every record anyway (even though you won't physically see that) > so the header may still make sense. Keep a hidden text box in > the header as well for the unique record identifier then you can > refill the header combo with the correct list values based on the > text box value. Make sense? > > Jim DeMarco > > -----Original Message----- > From: Mark A Matte [mailto:markamatte at hotmail.com] > Sent: Wednesday, March 10, 2004 4:50 PM > To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com > Subject: RE: [AccessD] Combo on Continuous Form > > > > Because the form I'm building will be the same form for multiple > products...but each product will have different attributes...and > different values available depending on the product and the > attribute. So the > dropdown on each row will have different values...depending on what > attribute is on that row. > > Thanks, > > Mark > > >From: "Jim DeMarco" > >Reply-To: Access Developers discussion and problem > >solving > >To: "Access Developers discussion and problem solving" > > > >Subject: RE: [AccessD] Combo on Continuous Form > >Date: Wed, 10 Mar 2004 10:28:35 -0500 > > > >Mark, > > > >Why not put it in the form Header instead? > > > >Jim DeMarco > > > >-----Original Message----- > >From: Mark A Matte [mailto:markamatte at hotmail.com] > >Sent: Tuesday, March 09, 2004 9:58 PM > >To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com > >Subject: [AccessD] Combo on Continuous Form > > > > > >Hello, > > > >In A2k I want a combo box on a each row of the continuous form > that filters > >by the current record on that continuous form. Suggestions anyone? > > > >Thanks, > > > >Mark > > > >_________________________________________________________________ > >Get business advice and resources to improve your work life, > from bCentral. > >http://special.msn.com/bcentral/loudclear.armx > > > >-- > >_______________________________________________ > >AccessD mailing list > >AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > >http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > >Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > > > > > > > > > > >***************************************************************** > ****************** > >"This electronic message is intended to be for the use only of > the named >recipient, and may contain information from Hudson > Health Plan (HHP) that >is confidential or privileged. If you > are not the intended recipient, you >are hereby notified that any > disclosure, copying, distribution or use of >the contents of this > message is strictly prohibited. If you have received >this > message in error or are not the named recipient, please notify us > >immediately, either by contacting the sender at the electronic > mail address > >noted above or calling HHP at (914) 631-1611. If you are not the > intended >recipient, please do not forward this email to anyone, > and delete and > >destroy all copies of this message. Thank You". > >***************************************************************** > ****************** > > > >-- > >_______________________________________________ > >AccessD mailing list > >AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > >http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > >Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > _________________________________________________________________ > FREE pop-up blocking with the new MSN Toolbar - get it now! > http://clk.atdmt.com/AVE/go/onm00200415ave/direct/01/ > > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > > > > ****************************************************************** > ***************** > "This electronic message is intended to be for the use only of > the named recipient, and may contain information from Hudson > Health Plan (HHP) that is confidential or privileged. If you are > not the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any > disclosure, copying, distribution or use of the contents of this > message is strictly prohibited. If you have received this > message in error or are not the named recipient, please notify us > immediately, either by contacting the sender at the electronic > mail address noted above or calling HHP at (914) 631-1611. If you > are not the intended recipient, please do not forward this email > to anyone, and delete and destroy all copies of this message. Thank You". > ****************************************************************** > ***************** > > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com *********************************************************************************** "This electronic message is intended to be for the use only of the named recipient, and may contain information from Hudson Health Plan (HHP) that is confidential or privileged. If you are not the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any disclosure, copying, distribution or use of the contents of this message is strictly prohibited. If you have received this message in error or are not the named recipient, please notify us immediately, either by contacting the sender at the electronic mail address noted above or calling HHP at (914) 631-1611. If you are not the intended recipient, please do not forward this email to anyone, and delete and destroy all copies of this message. Thank You". *********************************************************************************** From rl_stewart at highstream.net Thu Mar 11 08:11:40 2004 From: rl_stewart at highstream.net (Robert L. Stewart) Date: Thu, 11 Mar 2004 08:11:40 -0600 Subject: [AccessD] Re: Combo on Continuous Form In-Reply-To: <200403110513.i2B5DEM15231@databaseadvisors.com> Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20040311080945.029ebc78@pop3.highstream.net> Mark, Sorry to be thick headed, but I still do not have a clue as to what you really want to do. That is why I gave you an expanded example. Robert At 11:13 PM 3/10/2004 -0600, you wrote: >Date: Wed, 10 Mar 2004 21:51:57 +0000 >From: "Mark A Matte" >Subject: RE: [AccessD] Re: Combo on Continuous Form >To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com >Message-ID: >Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed > >Robert, > >My original post was: > >In A2k I want a combo box on a each row of the continuous form that filters >by the current record on that continuous form. Suggestions anyone? > >Thanks, > >Mark > > > >From: "Robert L. Stewart" > >Reply-To: Access Developers discussion and problem > >solving > >To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com > >CC: markamatte at hotmail.com > >Subject: [AccessD] Re: Combo on Continuous Form > >Date: Wed, 10 Mar 2004 10:15:22 -0600 > > > >Mark, > > > >What are you trying to accomplish? > > > >For example: > > > >I want a combobox on each row of a subform so I > >can use it to open a second form with information > >filtered not only by the information in the subform, > >but also limited by my selection in the combobox. > > > >Please give use more information. > > > >Thanks > > > >Robert From Bryan_Carbonnell at cbc.ca Thu Mar 11 08:56:07 2004 From: Bryan_Carbonnell at cbc.ca (Bryan Carbonnell) Date: Thu, 11 Mar 2004 09:56:07 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] DependentObjects class Message-ID: > Obviously if we add combo A to combo B's DependentObject collection and we > add Combo B to Combo A's dependent object collection, then we start an > endless loop where A requeries B which requeries A which requeries B... Maybe Im missing something painfully obvious but..... Why would you end up with an endless loop? Here is what I am understanding... If A is dependant on B and B is dependant on A, they need to be requeried when the other's value changes. Since you are adding to A, then the logical assumption is that the value of A will change to the newly entered value. But B's value won't change, wil it? The underlying datasource may change, but the actual value won't. So since Bs value didn't change A won't need to be requried. Therefore no loop. Or the other way around: Since you are adding to B, then the logical assumption is that the value of B will change to the newly entered value. But A's value won't change, wil it? The underlying datasource may change, but the actual value won't. So since As value didn't change B won't need to be requried. Therefore no loop. No?? Like I said I may be missing something painfully obvious. It wouldn't be the first time :-) Bryan Carbonnell bryan_carbonnell at cbc.ca >>> jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com 11-Mar-04 12:11:22 AM >>> I am working on a dependentobjects class, i.e. a class with a collection which holds objects (classes) where the control or form is dependent on the current control. Combo A changes. Combo B uses Combo A to filter itself. Combo B is "dependent" on combo A and must be requeried whenever Combo A changes. There is a case where two combos on a form may display data from the same table. For example two combos both display cities from the cities lookup table. If Combo A NotInList adds a new city. Combo B needs to requery in order to display that new city if necessary. However if Combo B adds the city, then Combo A needs to requery. Obviously if we add combo A to combo B's DependentObject collection and we add Combo B to Combo A's dependent object collection, then we start an endless loop where A requeries B which requeries A which requeries B... This is a case where I programmed a solution working but it was ugly. How would you solve this problem? From jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com Thu Mar 11 09:24:29 2004 From: jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com (John W. Colby) Date: Thu, 11 Mar 2004 10:24:29 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] DependentObjects class In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Bryan, Dependent objects say that ComboB is filtered on ComboA. The NORMAL usage is when ComboA changes, the data set for Combo will change so we need to requery ComboB in order to get the new dataset. The NORMAL usage is that if we requery ComboB, then because it is probably changing it's dataset, the object it is displaying is also changing so requery any of ComboB's dependent objects. If ComboA is "dependent on" ComboB then we have created feedback and an endless loop ensues. In this specific case, ComboA is NOT dependent on ComboB and ComboB is NOT dependent on ComboA they are just displaying the same potential dataset. If ComboA causes the dataset to change then ComboB needs to be requeried so that it can pick up the changes. ComboB does NOT need to requery any other objects however since it did not initiate the changing data. It turns out that I am using the same functionality for different purposes and that is really what causes the problem. I could add a second collection in clsDepObj that holds pointers to any objects that display the same data but are not dependent in the normal sense. Then have another method of the class that says "requery the control but not the dependent objects". Call this method for every object in the SameData collection. Since only the control / form gets requeried and the SameData class does not iterate it's dependent collection, we avoid this problem. Sometimes it helps to write out the problem like this and solutions start popping out. I'll have to think about this one. Thanks for pointing out the obvious. John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Bryan Carbonnell Sent: Thursday, March 11, 2004 9:56 AM To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: Re: [AccessD] DependentObjects class > Obviously if we add combo A to combo B's DependentObject collection and we > add Combo B to Combo A's dependent object collection, then we start an > endless loop where A requeries B which requeries A which requeries B... Maybe Im missing something painfully obvious but..... Why would you end up with an endless loop? Here is what I am understanding... If A is dependant on B and B is dependant on A, they need to be requeried when the other's value changes. Since you are adding to A, then the logical assumption is that the value of A will change to the newly entered value. But B's value won't change, wil it? The underlying datasource may change, but the actual value won't. So since Bs value didn't change A won't need to be requried. Therefore no loop. Or the other way around: Since you are adding to B, then the logical assumption is that the value of B will change to the newly entered value. But A's value won't change, wil it? The underlying datasource may change, but the actual value won't. So since As value didn't change B won't need to be requried. Therefore no loop. No?? Like I said I may be missing something painfully obvious. It wouldn't be the first time :-) Bryan Carbonnell bryan_carbonnell at cbc.ca >>> jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com 11-Mar-04 12:11:22 AM >>> I am working on a dependentobjects class, i.e. a class with a collection which holds objects (classes) where the control or form is dependent on the current control. Combo A changes. Combo B uses Combo A to filter itself. Combo B is "dependent" on combo A and must be requeried whenever Combo A changes. There is a case where two combos on a form may display data from the same table. For example two combos both display cities from the cities lookup table. If Combo A NotInList adds a new city. Combo B needs to requery in order to display that new city if necessary. However if Combo B adds the city, then Combo A needs to requery. Obviously if we add combo A to combo B's DependentObject collection and we add Combo B to Combo A's dependent object collection, then we start an endless loop where A requeries B which requeries A which requeries B... This is a case where I programmed a solution working but it was ugly. How would you solve this problem? -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From rsmethurst at UK.EY.COM Thu Mar 11 11:42:38 2004 From: rsmethurst at UK.EY.COM (rsmethurst at UK.EY.COM) Date: Thu, 11 Mar 2004 17:42:38 +0000 Subject: [AccessD] Printing forms Message-ID: Hi All, I am having a problem printing forms - specifically it is with combo boxes and radio buttons (usually within frames) which do not print with the correct option filled. i.e two radio buttons and both will print blank, even though the first one is selected. and a combo box with have a selected value, but will not display this value when the form prints. The controls are all set to display for both print and screen, and the controls are unbound. TIA Ryan This e-mail and any attachment are confidential and contain proprietary information, some or all of which may be legally privileged. It is intended solely for the use of the individual or entity to which it is addressed. If you are not the intended recipient, please notify the author immediately by telephone or by replying to this e-mail, and then delete all copies of the e-mail on your system. If you are not the intended recipient, you must not use, disclose, distribute, copy, print or rely on this e-mail. Whilst we have taken reasonable precautions to ensure that this e-mail and any attachment has been checked for viruses, we cannot guarantee that they are virus free and we cannot accept liability for any damage sustained as a result of software viruses. We would advise that you carry out your own virus checks, especially before opening an attachment. The UK firm Ernst & Young LLP is a limited liability partnership registered in England and Wales with registered number OC300001 and is a member practice of Ernst & Young Global. A list of members? names is available for inspection at 1 More London Place, London, SE1 2AF, the firm?s principal place of business and its registered office. From rl_stewart at highstream.net Thu Mar 11 12:12:05 2004 From: rl_stewart at highstream.net (Robert L. Stewart) Date: Thu, 11 Mar 2004 12:12:05 -0600 Subject: [AccessD] Re: Combo on Continuous Form In-Reply-To: <200403111746.i2BHkpM06224@databaseadvisors.com> Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20040311120926.049109e8@pop3.highstream.net> Mark, This is what I needed to know. All you need to do is use a cascading combobox. The demo of this is on Roger's site. Your cascade events will probably be in the oncurrent and the afterupdate. Because you would want it to change when adding a new row and when you change from one existing row to another. Robert P.S. You will need for the combobox to be bound to a column for it to display properly. At 11:46 AM 3/11/2004 -0600, you wrote: >From: Mark A Matte [mailto:markamatte at hotmail.com] >Sent: Wednesday, March 10, 2004 4:50 PM >To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com >Subject: RE: [AccessD] Combo on Continuous Form > > > >Because the form I'm building will be the same form for multiple >products...but each product will have different attributes...and different >values available depending on the product and the attribute. So the >dropdown on each row will have different values...depending on what >attribute is on that row. > >Thanks, > >Mark From Bryan_Carbonnell at cbc.ca Thu Mar 11 12:15:34 2004 From: Bryan_Carbonnell at cbc.ca (Bryan Carbonnell) Date: Thu, 11 Mar 2004 13:15:34 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] DependentObjects class Message-ID: > In this specific case, ComboA is NOT dependent on ComboB and ComboB is NOT > dependent on ComboA they are just displaying the same potential dataset. If > ComboA causes the dataset to change then ComboB needs to be requeried so > that it can pick up the changes. ComboB does NOT need to requery any other > objects however since it did not initiate the changing data. It turns out > that I am using the same functionality for different purposes and that is > really what causes the problem. In that case, in your custom NotInList event when the data is added why not do something like this: 'Assumptions - Parent of combo class is a form class ' and the combo class has a parent property that ' points to the form class ' All of this is pseudo code 'Loop through all the combo classes in the parent For each ComboClass in Me.Parent.ComboClasses 'Check to see if the RowSource of the ComboClass is the ' same as this class' row source If ComboClass.RowSource = Me.RowSource then 'It is, so requery the combo class ComboClass.Requery End If Loop I would think that if you did it this way, then both possibilities (A dependant on B and A and B share a Row Source) will be covered in the same class and you don't have to create a separate collection to hold the row sources. Just an idea. >Thanks for pointing out the obvious. Glad to Help?!?! I think. :) Bryan Carbonnell bryan_carbonnell at cbc.ca >>> jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com 11-Mar-04 10:24:29 AM >>> Bryan, Dependent objects say that ComboB is filtered on ComboA. The NORMAL usage is when ComboA changes, the data set for Combo will change so we need to requery ComboB in order to get the new dataset. The NORMAL usage is that if we requery ComboB, then because it is probably changing it's dataset, the object it is displaying is also changing so requery any of ComboB's dependent objects. If ComboA is "dependent on" ComboB then we have created feedback and an endless loop ensues. In this specific case, ComboA is NOT dependent on ComboB and ComboB is NOT dependent on ComboA they are just displaying the same potential dataset. If ComboA causes the dataset to change then ComboB needs to be requeried so that it can pick up the changes. ComboB does NOT need to requery any other objects however since it did not initiate the changing data. It turns out that I am using the same functionality for different purposes and that is really what causes the problem. I could add a second collection in clsDepObj that holds pointers to any objects that display the same data but are not dependent in the normal sense. Then have another method of the class that says "requery the control but not the dependent objects". Call this method for every object in the SameData collection. Since only the control / form gets requeried and the SameData class does not iterate it's dependent collection, we avoid this problem. Sometimes it helps to write out the problem like this and solutions start popping out. I'll have to think about this one. Thanks for pointing out the obvious. From rl_stewart at highstream.net Thu Mar 11 12:15:55 2004 From: rl_stewart at highstream.net (Robert L. Stewart) Date: Thu, 11 Mar 2004 12:15:55 -0600 Subject: [AccessD] Re: Printing forms In-Reply-To: <200403111746.i2BHkpM06224@databaseadvisors.com> Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20040311121458.02a59d10@pop3.highstream.net> Ryan, That is because you print reports and not forms. Forms are for data entry. Reports are for printing. Robert At 11:46 AM 3/11/2004 -0600, you wrote: >Date: Thu, 11 Mar 2004 17:42:38 +0000 >From: rsmethurst at UK.EY.COM >Subject: [AccessD] Printing forms >To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > >Message-ID: > >Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" > >Hi All, > >I am having a problem printing forms - specifically it is with combo boxes >and radio buttons (usually within frames) which do not print with the >correct option filled. > >i.e two radio buttons and both will print blank, even though the first one >is selected. >and a combo box with have a selected value, but will not display this >value when the form prints. > >The controls are all set to display for both print and screen, and the >controls are unbound. > >TIA > >Ryan From jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com Thu Mar 11 12:59:40 2004 From: jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com (John W. Colby) Date: Thu, 11 Mar 2004 13:59:40 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] DependentObjects class In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Its not quite that simple. Many different objects can use data from the same table including other forms / subforms, lists, combos etc. Further the table may be part of a complex query in that object over there where it is the whole query in this object etc. In my mind it is better to just let the developer tell the system "this object is dependent on that object" and / or "this object uses the same data as that object". John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Bryan Carbonnell Sent: Thursday, March 11, 2004 1:16 PM To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: RE: [AccessD] DependentObjects class > In this specific case, ComboA is NOT dependent on ComboB and ComboB is NOT > dependent on ComboA they are just displaying the same potential dataset. If > ComboA causes the dataset to change then ComboB needs to be requeried so > that it can pick up the changes. ComboB does NOT need to requery any other > objects however since it did not initiate the changing data. It turns out > that I am using the same functionality for different purposes and that is > really what causes the problem. In that case, in your custom NotInList event when the data is added why not do something like this: 'Assumptions - Parent of combo class is a form class ' and the combo class has a parent property that ' points to the form class ' All of this is pseudo code 'Loop through all the combo classes in the parent For each ComboClass in Me.Parent.ComboClasses 'Check to see if the RowSource of the ComboClass is the ' same as this class' row source If ComboClass.RowSource = Me.RowSource then 'It is, so requery the combo class ComboClass.Requery End If Loop I would think that if you did it this way, then both possibilities (A dependant on B and A and B share a Row Source) will be covered in the same class and you don't have to create a separate collection to hold the row sources. Just an idea. >Thanks for pointing out the obvious. Glad to Help?!?! I think. :) Bryan Carbonnell bryan_carbonnell at cbc.ca From John.Clark at niagaracounty.com Thu Mar 11 14:02:00 2004 From: John.Clark at niagaracounty.com (John Clark) Date: Thu, 11 Mar 2004 15:02:00 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] question on normalization Message-ID: quick question: I have a program that will be populated with a 'regional' group of people--this meaning that everyone's address will be within this county. So I am thinking that I can speed up entry, by using a drop-down for zip codes and filling the town name from that. My question is, would it be proper to have a separate table for town and another for zip code, even though zip code would be a single field table? The town table would have three tables, with one being a link to the Zip Code table, and the Zip Code table would have a single field--"Zip". Thanks John W Clark From DMcAfee at haascnc.com Thu Mar 11 14:48:42 2004 From: DMcAfee at haascnc.com (David McAfee) Date: Thu, 11 Mar 2004 12:48:42 -0800 Subject: [AccessD] question on normalization Message-ID: <657FB70438B7D311AF320090279C180106144105@EXCHMAIL> I our last system, we had a Zipcode table with 5 fields (and 45K+ records): ZipID (PK Autonumber) ZipCode (text,5) City (text, 30) State (text, 2) DefaultCity (yes/no) I would look up a city based on zipcode entry. One of three results could happen: 0 records returned: Prompt to check if zipcode entry (later evolved into adding new city) 1 record returned: populate city and state onto form >1 record returned: pop up a mini screen with a list box showing all of the cities using that zipcode. The default city is selected with the OK button having focus. I would store every part of the address together for a given address. In our new system, we have the similar set up as above, but we only keep the ZipID (ID, for the city, state and Zip) with the address. The extra joins needed now are a bit of a pita, so I could imagine how much more it would be to use a junction table containing an CSZid, CityID, Stid & ZipID. I guess it all boils down to what level of normalization do you want to go? 3rd, 4th? Oh, btw, are you only dealing with US addresses or INTL addresses too? Because that will add some twists too ;) David -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of John Clark Sent: Thursday, March 11, 2004 12:02 PM To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: [AccessD] question on normalization quick question: I have a program that will be populated with a 'regional' group of people--this meaning that everyone's address will be within this county. So I am thinking that I can speed up entry, by using a drop-down for zip codes and filling the town name from that. My question is, would it be proper to have a separate table for town and another for zip code, even though zip code would be a single field table? The town table would have three tables, with one being a link to the Zip Code table, and the Zip Code table would have a single field--"Zip". Thanks John W Clark -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From markamatte at hotmail.com Thu Mar 11 14:56:48 2004 From: markamatte at hotmail.com (Mark A Matte) Date: Thu, 11 Mar 2004 20:56:48 +0000 Subject: [AccessD] Re: Combo on Continuous Form Message-ID: What is the URL to Roger's site? Thanks, Mark >From: "Robert L. Stewart" >Reply-To: Access Developers discussion and problem >solving >To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com >Subject: [AccessD] Re: Combo on Continuous Form >Date: Thu, 11 Mar 2004 12:12:05 -0600 > >Mark, > >This is what I needed to know. All you need to do >is use a cascading combobox. The demo of this is >on Roger's site. Your cascade events will probably >be in the oncurrent and the afterupdate. Because >you would want it to change when adding a new row >and when you change from one existing row to another. > >Robert > >P.S. You will need for the combobox to be bound to >a column for it to display properly. > >At 11:46 AM 3/11/2004 -0600, you wrote: >>From: Mark A Matte [mailto:markamatte at hotmail.com] >>Sent: Wednesday, March 10, 2004 4:50 PM >>To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com >>Subject: RE: [AccessD] Combo on Continuous Form >> >> >> >>Because the form I'm building will be the same form for multiple >>products...but each product will have different attributes...and different >>values available depending on the product and the attribute. So the >>dropdown on each row will have different values...depending on what >>attribute is on that row. >> >>Thanks, >> >>Mark > > >-- >_______________________________________________ >AccessD mailing list >AccessD at databaseadvisors.com >http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd >Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com _________________________________________________________________ Learn how to help protect your privacy and prevent fraud online at Tech Hacks & Scams. http://special.msn.com/msnbc/techsafety.armx From Oleg_123 at xuppa.com Thu Mar 11 15:10:52 2004 From: Oleg_123 at xuppa.com (Oleg_123 at xuppa.com) Date: Thu, 11 Mar 2004 16:10:52 -0500 (EST) Subject: [AccessD] combining date columns In-Reply-To: <657FB70438B7D311AF320090279C180106144105@EXCHMAIL> References: <657FB70438B7D311AF320090279C180106144105@EXCHMAIL> Message-ID: <31155.63.251.87.214.1079039452.squirrel@heck.bay9.com> Group, I need to combain 3 date fields into one (where the date apears either in first column or in second or in third), I tried [Column1] & [column2] and [column3] as Combined (obviously with diff names) i am coming up with a field that is not treated like date. (numeric field prob) Format([Column1] & [column2] and [column3]),"mm/dd/yyyy" as Combined also didn't work. Any suggestions ? ----------------------------------------- Get Breaking News from CNN, ABC, NBC, CBS Now. http://www.xuppa.com/news/?link=webmail From martyconnelly at shaw.ca Thu Mar 11 15:25:07 2004 From: martyconnelly at shaw.ca (MartyConnelly) Date: Thu, 11 Mar 2004 13:25:07 -0800 Subject: [AccessD] Access 2000 ADP's and DataSheet views - Crosspost References: <404F8D9B.6050809@verizon.net> Message-ID: <4050D933.7070901@shaw.ca> I don't know if this is the cause; just came across it in fixes manifest of Access XP SP3 just released ACC2002: Error Message: Cannot Apply Filter on One or More Fields That Are Specified in the Filter Property http://support.microsoft.com/default.aspx?kbid=814094 This problem may occur when you connect to Microsoft SQL Server with credentials that are different from the credentials of the owner of the table that you want to filter. Francisco H Tapia wrote: > re-posted from the SqlServer list :) > > Quick questions, has anyone on the list tried to use a datasheet view > form bound to a view or sproc and found that if you filter out the > display (datasheet) that upon making changes to any field the > datasheet looses it's Filter? > > Thanks, > -- Marty Connelly Victoria, B.C. Canada From martyconnelly at shaw.ca Thu Mar 11 15:31:41 2004 From: martyconnelly at shaw.ca (MartyConnelly) Date: Thu, 11 Mar 2004 13:31:41 -0800 Subject: [AccessD] Re: Combo on Continuous Form References: Message-ID: <4050DABD.8070904@shaw.ca> http://www.rogersaccesslibrary.com Mark A Matte wrote: > What is the URL to Roger's site? > > Thanks, > > Mark > > >> From: "Robert L. Stewart" >> Reply-To: Access Developers discussion and problem >> solving >> To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com >> Subject: [AccessD] Re: Combo on Continuous Form >> Date: Thu, 11 Mar 2004 12:12:05 -0600 >> >> Mark, >> >> This is what I needed to know. All you need to do >> is use a cascading combobox. The demo of this is >> on Roger's site. Your cascade events will probably >> be in the oncurrent and the afterupdate. Because >> you would want it to change when adding a new row >> and when you change from one existing row to another. >> >> Robert >> >> P.S. You will need for the combobox to be bound to >> a column for it to display properly. >> >> At 11:46 AM 3/11/2004 -0600, you wrote: >> >>> From: Mark A Matte [mailto:markamatte at hotmail.com] >>> Sent: Wednesday, March 10, 2004 4:50 PM >>> To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com >>> Subject: RE: [AccessD] Combo on Continuous Form >>> >>> >>> >>> Because the form I'm building will be the same form for multiple >>> products...but each product will have different attributes...and >>> different values available depending on the product and the >>> attribute. So the >>> dropdown on each row will have different values...depending on what >>> attribute is on that row. >>> >>> Thanks, >>> >>> Mark >> >> >> >> -- >> _______________________________________________ >> AccessD mailing list >> AccessD at databaseadvisors.com >> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd >> Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > _________________________________________________________________ > Learn how to help protect your privacy and prevent fraud online at > Tech Hacks & Scams. http://special.msn.com/msnbc/techsafety.armx > -- Marty Connelly Victoria, B.C. Canada From jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com Thu Mar 11 15:55:17 2004 From: jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com (John W. Colby) Date: Thu, 11 Mar 2004 16:55:17 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] question on normalization In-Reply-To: <657FB70438B7D311AF320090279C180106144105@EXCHMAIL> Message-ID: David, Did you fill in this table with which Zips were in which town etc.? Or is there a standard db out there somewhere with this stuff? John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of David McAfee Sent: Thursday, March 11, 2004 3:49 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: [AccessD] question on normalization I our last system, we had a Zipcode table with 5 fields (and 45K+ records): ZipID (PK Autonumber) ZipCode (text,5) City (text, 30) State (text, 2) DefaultCity (yes/no) I would look up a city based on zipcode entry. One of three results could happen: 0 records returned: Prompt to check if zipcode entry (later evolved into adding new city) 1 record returned: populate city and state onto form >1 record returned: pop up a mini screen with a list box showing all of the cities using that zipcode. The default city is selected with the OK button having focus. I would store every part of the address together for a given address. In our new system, we have the similar set up as above, but we only keep the ZipID (ID, for the city, state and Zip) with the address. The extra joins needed now are a bit of a pita, so I could imagine how much more it would be to use a junction table containing an CSZid, CityID, Stid & ZipID. I guess it all boils down to what level of normalization do you want to go? 3rd, 4th? Oh, btw, are you only dealing with US addresses or INTL addresses too? Because that will add some twists too ;) David -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of John Clark Sent: Thursday, March 11, 2004 12:02 PM To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: [AccessD] question on normalization quick question: I have a program that will be populated with a 'regional' group of people--this meaning that everyone's address will be within this county. So I am thinking that I can speed up entry, by using a drop-down for zip codes and filling the town name from that. My question is, would it be proper to have a separate table for town and another for zip code, even though zip code would be a single field table? The town table would have three tables, with one being a link to the Zip Code table, and the Zip Code table would have a single field--"Zip". Thanks John W Clark -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From my.lists at verizon.net Thu Mar 11 15:57:03 2004 From: my.lists at verizon.net (Francisco H Tapia) Date: Thu, 11 Mar 2004 13:57:03 -0800 Subject: [AccessD] Access 2000 ADP's and DataSheet views - Crosspost In-Reply-To: <4050D933.7070901@shaw.ca> References: <404F8D9B.6050809@verizon.net> <4050D933.7070901@shaw.ca> Message-ID: <4050E0AF.2050903@verizon.net> That's not really the problem tho I didn't know things got worse as you upgraded down the MS Access path :(. The problem occurs when you have for example Columns Priority, OnDate, and Status, and you filter of any combination of the 3, in order to get your view of the subset down. When you then turn around and want to modify data in either one of the filtered/sorted columns, the Datasheet proceeds to drop the filter and sort dumping you out of your filter and previously set sort. however if you sort on a set of fields (mirrors) (sproc looks like this: Select Priority As SortPriority, Priority, OnDate AS SortOnDate, OnDate, Status AS SortOnStatus, Status From Table1 ) now you can use the Sort columns to filter and sort w/o loosing your filter and sort settings in the datasheet. my current workaround is to lock out the sort columns and remember NOT to try to type into them :)... this totaly bites, but it's Access2000 SR1a of course there's gonna be bugs. :( MartyConnelly wrote: > I don't know if this is the cause; just came across it in fixes > manifest of Access XP SP3 just released > > > ACC2002: Error Message: Cannot Apply Filter on One or More Fields That > Are Specified in the Filter Property > > http://support.microsoft.com/default.aspx?kbid=814094 > > This problem may occur when you connect to Microsoft SQL Server with > credentials that are different from the credentials of the owner of > the table that you want to filter. > > Francisco H Tapia wrote: > >> re-posted from the SqlServer list :) >> >> Quick questions, has anyone on the list tried to use a datasheet view >> form bound to a view or sproc and found that if you filter out the >> display (datasheet) that upon making changes to any field the >> datasheet looses it's Filter? >> >> Thanks, >> > -- -Francisco From DMcAfee at haascnc.com Thu Mar 11 16:16:16 2004 From: DMcAfee at haascnc.com (David McAfee) Date: Thu, 11 Mar 2004 14:16:16 -0800 Subject: [AccessD] question on normalization Message-ID: <657FB70438B7D311AF320090279C18010614410A@EXCHMAIL> It was given to me many years ago, and I've just maintained it. I can give you a sample if you need. Our company has purchased "Perfect Address" software which can be called from Access. This is a system that corrects addresses. they put out updates monthly (IIRC). I use it in conjunction with my table. David -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of John W. Colby Sent: Thursday, March 11, 2004 1:55 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] question on normalization David, Did you fill in this table with which Zips were in which town etc.? Or is there a standard db out there somewhere with this stuff? John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of David McAfee Sent: Thursday, March 11, 2004 3:49 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: [AccessD] question on normalization I our last system, we had a Zipcode table with 5 fields (and 45K+ records): ZipID (PK Autonumber) ZipCode (text,5) City (text, 30) State (text, 2) DefaultCity (yes/no) I would look up a city based on zipcode entry. One of three results could happen: 0 records returned: Prompt to check if zipcode entry (later evolved into adding new city) 1 record returned: populate city and state onto form >1 record returned: pop up a mini screen with a list box showing all of the cities using that zipcode. The default city is selected with the OK button having focus. I would store every part of the address together for a given address. In our new system, we have the similar set up as above, but we only keep the ZipID (ID, for the city, state and Zip) with the address. The extra joins needed now are a bit of a pita, so I could imagine how much more it would be to use a junction table containing an CSZid, CityID, Stid & ZipID. I guess it all boils down to what level of normalization do you want to go? 3rd, 4th? Oh, btw, are you only dealing with US addresses or INTL addresses too? Because that will add some twists too ;) David -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of John Clark Sent: Thursday, March 11, 2004 12:02 PM To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: [AccessD] question on normalization quick question: I have a program that will be populated with a 'regional' group of people--this meaning that everyone's address will be within this county. So I am thinking that I can speed up entry, by using a drop-down for zip codes and filling the town name from that. My question is, would it be proper to have a separate table for town and another for zip code, even though zip code would be a single field table? The town table would have three tables, with one being a link to the Zip Code table, and the Zip Code table would have a single field--"Zip". Thanks John W Clark -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From stuart at lexacorp.com.pg Thu Mar 11 16:24:49 2004 From: stuart at lexacorp.com.pg (Stuart McLachlan) Date: Fri, 12 Mar 2004 08:24:49 +1000 Subject: [AccessD] combining date columns In-Reply-To: <31155.63.251.87.214.1079039452.squirrel@heck.bay9.com> References: <657FB70438B7D311AF320090279C180106144105@EXCHMAIL> Message-ID: <405173D1.5774.151259@localhost> On 11 Mar 2004 at 16:10, Oleg_123 at xuppa.com wrote: > Group, > I need to combain 3 date fields into one (where the date apears either in > first column or in second or in third), > I tried [Column1] & [column2] and [column3] as Combined (obviously with > diff names) i am coming up with a field that is not treated like date. > (numeric field prob) > Format([Column1] & [column2] and [column3]),"mm/dd/yyyy" as Combined > > also didn't work. Any suggestions ? > Try Datevalue([Column1] & [column2] and [column3]) -- Lexacorp Ltd http://www.lexacorp.com.pg Information Technology Consultancy, Software Development,System Support. From donald.a.Mcgillivray at mail.sprint.com Thu Mar 11 16:46:52 2004 From: donald.a.Mcgillivray at mail.sprint.com (Mcgillivray, Donald [ITS]) Date: Thu, 11 Mar 2004 16:46:52 -0600 Subject: [AccessD] combining date columns Message-ID: <6FC1C7A6E7BD5540AB0A8436713C43BF0761C7FF@PKDWB01C.ad.sprint.com> Try changing the "and" to "&": [Column1] & [column2] & [column3] as Combined instead of [Column1] & [column2] and [column3] as Combined -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Stuart McLachlan Sent: Thursday, March 11, 2004 2:25 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] combining date columns On 11 Mar 2004 at 16:10, Oleg_123 at xuppa.com wrote: > Group, > I need to combain 3 date fields into one (where the date apears either in > first column or in second or in third), > I tried [Column1] & [column2] and [column3] as Combined (obviously with > diff names) i am coming up with a field that is not treated like date. > (numeric field prob) > Format([Column1] & [column2] and [column3]),"mm/dd/yyyy" as Combined > > also didn't work. Any suggestions ? > Try Datevalue([Column1] & [column2] and [column3]) -- Lexacorp Ltd http://www.lexacorp.com.pg Information Technology Consultancy, Software Development,System Support. -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From stuart at lexacorp.com.pg Thu Mar 11 16:55:21 2004 From: stuart at lexacorp.com.pg (Stuart McLachlan) Date: Fri, 12 Mar 2004 08:55:21 +1000 Subject: [AccessD] combining date columns In-Reply-To: <6FC1C7A6E7BD5540AB0A8436713C43BF0761C7FF@PKDWB01C.ad.sprint.com> Message-ID: <40517AF9.10199.31063B@localhost> I didn't notice that one at all. Just goes to show how much we see what we expect to see :-( On 11 Mar 2004 at 16:46, Mcgillivray, Donald [ITS] wrote: > Try changing the "and" to "&": > > [Column1] & [column2] & [column3] as Combined instead of > > [Column1] & [column2] and [column3] as Combined > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Stuart > McLachlan > Sent: Thursday, March 11, 2004 2:25 PM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: Re: [AccessD] combining date columns > > > On 11 Mar 2004 at 16:10, Oleg_123 at xuppa.com wrote: > > > Group, > > I need to combain 3 date fields into one (where the date apears either > in > > first column or in second or in third), > > I tried [Column1] & [column2] and [column3] as Combined (obviously > with > > diff names) i am coming up with a field that is not treated like date. > > (numeric field prob) > > Format([Column1] & [column2] and [column3]),"mm/dd/yyyy" as Combined > > > > also didn't work. Any suggestions ? > > > Try Datevalue([Column1] & [column2] and [column3]) > > > -- > Lexacorp Ltd > http://www.lexacorp.com.pg > Information Technology Consultancy, Software Development,System > Support. > > > > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- Lexacorp Ltd http://www.lexacorp.com.pg Information Technology Consultancy, Software Development,System Support. From davesharpe2 at cox.net Thu Mar 11 16:57:45 2004 From: davesharpe2 at cox.net (Dave Sharpe) Date: Thu, 11 Mar 2004 17:57:45 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] combining date columns References: <657FB70438B7D311AF320090279C180106144105@EXCHMAIL> <31155.63.251.87.214.1079039452.squirrel@heck.bay9.com> Message-ID: <00db01c407bc$449db9d0$dd2f0a44@bcsext6137> Oleg What do You expect to be the result to be? 1/1/2002 & 12/31/2003 & 2/22/2004 as a date ? Dave ----- Original Message ----- From: To: Sent: Thursday, March 11, 2004 4:10 PM Subject: [AccessD] combining date columns Group, I need to combain 3 date fields into one (where the date apears either in first column or in second or in third), I tried [Column1] & [column2] and [column3] as Combined (obviously with diff names) i am coming up with a field that is not treated like date. (numeric field prob) Format([Column1] & [column2] and [column3]),"mm/dd/yyyy" as Combined also didn't work. Any suggestions ? ----------------------------------------- Get Breaking News from CNN, ABC, NBC, CBS Now. http://www.xuppa.com/news/?link=webmail -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From stuart at lexacorp.com.pg Thu Mar 11 17:03:08 2004 From: stuart at lexacorp.com.pg (Stuart McLachlan) Date: Fri, 12 Mar 2004 09:03:08 +1000 Subject: [AccessD] combining date columns In-Reply-To: <00db01c407bc$449db9d0$dd2f0a44@bcsext6137> Message-ID: <40517CCC.12532.3826D1@localhost> On 11 Mar 2004 at 17:57, Dave Sharpe wrote: > Oleg > > What do You expect to be the result to be? > > 1/1/2002 & 12/31/2003 & 2/22/2004 as a date ? > > Dave > Oleg said "where the date apears either in first column or in second or in third". I assumed that the other two columns would be Null. -- Lexacorp Ltd http://www.lexacorp.com.pg Information Technology Consultancy, Software Development,System Support. From davesharpe2 at cox.net Thu Mar 11 17:09:07 2004 From: davesharpe2 at cox.net (Dave Sharpe) Date: Thu, 11 Mar 2004 18:09:07 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] combining date columns References: <657FB70438B7D311AF320090279C180106144105@EXCHMAIL> <31155.63.251.87.214.1079039452.squirrel@heck.bay9.com> Message-ID: <00f401c407bd$dab0cdd0$dd2f0a44@bcsext6137> Oleg I'd suggest selecting it not trying to combine. theDate = iif(Column1 is not null, Column1, iif(Column2 is not null, Column2, Column3 ) ) Dave ----- Original Message ----- From: To: Sent: Thursday, March 11, 2004 4:10 PM Subject: [AccessD] combining date columns Group, I need to combain 3 date fields into one (where the date apears either in first column or in second or in third), I tried [Column1] & [column2] and [column3] as Combined (obviously with diff names) i am coming up with a field that is not treated like date. (numeric field prob) Format([Column1] & [column2] and [column3]),"mm/dd/yyyy" as Combined also didn't work. Any suggestions ? ----------------------------------------- Get Breaking News from CNN, ABC, NBC, CBS Now. http://www.xuppa.com/news/?link=webmail -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From joeget at vgernet.net Thu Mar 11 17:16:20 2004 From: joeget at vgernet.net (John Eget) Date: Thu, 11 Mar 2004 18:16:20 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] date on HP PCs Message-ID: <00b701c407be$e0afba10$7dc2f63f@Desktop> I had the oddest thing happen today, My databases do not show =Date(), but only on the new HPs in work. Has anyone come across this before? John From Oleg_123 at xuppa.com Thu Mar 11 17:14:01 2004 From: Oleg_123 at xuppa.com (Oleg_123 at xuppa.com) Date: Thu, 11 Mar 2004 18:14:01 -0500 (EST) Subject: [AccessD] combining date columns In-Reply-To: <00f401c407bd$dab0cdd0$dd2f0a44@bcsext6137> References: <657FB70438B7D311AF320090279C180106144105@EXCHMAIL> <31155.63.251.87.214.1079039452.squirrel@heck.bay9.com> <00f401c407bd$dab0cdd0$dd2f0a44@bcsext6137> Message-ID: <3075.24.187.36.171.1079046841.squirrel@heck.bay9.com> Dave thanks, this looks like the best solution; I'll try that tomorrow > Oleg > > I'd suggest selecting it not trying to combine. > > theDate = iif(Column1 is not null, Column1, iif(Column2 is not null, > Column2, Column3 ) ) > > Dave > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: > To: > Sent: Thursday, March 11, 2004 4:10 PM > Subject: [AccessD] combining date columns > > > Group, > I need to combain 3 date fields into one (where the date apears either > in first column or in second or in third), > I tried [Column1] & [column2] and [column3] as Combined (obviously with > diff names) i am coming up with a field that is not treated like date. > (numeric field prob) > Format([Column1] & [column2] and [column3]),"mm/dd/yyyy" as Combined > > also didn't work. Any suggestions ? > > > ----------------------------------------- > Get Breaking News from CNN, ABC, NBC, CBS Now. > http://www.xuppa.com/news/?link=webmail > > > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com ----------------------------------------- Get Breaking News from CNN, ABC, NBC, CBS Now. http://www.xuppa.com/news/?link=webmail From joeget at vgernet.net Thu Mar 11 17:17:51 2004 From: joeget at vgernet.net (John Eget) Date: Thu, 11 Mar 2004 18:17:51 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] active design view in mde Message-ID: <00bb01c407bf$16f80f00$7dc2f63f@Desktop> Is there anyway to active design view in an application that had been compiled in an mde format? Thanks John From davesharpe2 at cox.net Thu Mar 11 17:31:14 2004 From: davesharpe2 at cox.net (Dave Sharpe) Date: Thu, 11 Mar 2004 18:31:14 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] combining date columns References: <40517CCC.12532.3826D1@localhost> Message-ID: <011001c407c0$f1c7b990$dd2f0a44@bcsext6137> Stuart Thank You for the clarification I sure missed that. Dave ----- Original Message ----- From: "Stuart McLachlan" To: "Access Developers discussion and problemsolving" Sent: Thursday, March 11, 2004 6:03 PM Subject: Re: [AccessD] combining date columns On 11 Mar 2004 at 17:57, Dave Sharpe wrote: > Oleg > > What do You expect to be the result to be? > > 1/1/2002 & 12/31/2003 & 2/22/2004 as a date ? > > Dave > Oleg said "where the date apears either in first column or in second or in third". I assumed that the other two columns would be Null. -- Lexacorp Ltd http://www.lexacorp.com.pg Information Technology Consultancy, Software Development,System Support. From davesharpe2 at cox.net Thu Mar 11 17:31:44 2004 From: davesharpe2 at cox.net (Dave Sharpe) Date: Thu, 11 Mar 2004 18:31:44 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] combining date columns References: <657FB70438B7D311AF320090279C180106144105@EXCHMAIL><31155.63.251.87.214.1079039452.squirrel@heck.bay9.com><00f401c407bd$dab0cdd0$dd2f0a44@bcsext6137> <3075.24.187.36.171.1079046841.squirrel@heck.bay9.com> Message-ID: <011701c407c1$03bac1b0$dd2f0a44@bcsext6137> Oleg You welcome Dave ----- Original Message ----- From: To: Sent: Thursday, March 11, 2004 6:14 PM Subject: Re: [AccessD] combining date columns Dave thanks, this looks like the best solution; I'll try that tomorrow > Oleg > > I'd suggest selecting it not trying to combine. > > theDate = iif(Column1 is not null, Column1, iif(Column2 is not null, > Column2, Column3 ) ) > > Dave > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: > To: > Sent: Thursday, March 11, 2004 4:10 PM > Subject: [AccessD] combining date columns > > > Group, > I need to combain 3 date fields into one (where the date apears either > in first column or in second or in third), > I tried [Column1] & [column2] and [column3] as Combined (obviously with > diff names) i am coming up with a field that is not treated like date. > (numeric field prob) > Format([Column1] & [column2] and [column3]),"mm/dd/yyyy" as Combined > > also didn't work. Any suggestions ? > > > ----------------------------------------- > Get Breaking News from CNN, ABC, NBC, CBS Now. > http://www.xuppa.com/news/?link=webmail > > > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com ----------------------------------------- Get Breaking News from CNN, ABC, NBC, CBS Now. http://www.xuppa.com/news/?link=webmail -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From joeget at vgernet.net Thu Mar 11 18:38:44 2004 From: joeget at vgernet.net (John Eget) Date: Thu, 11 Mar 2004 19:38:44 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] access graph on a report to a power point slide Message-ID: <014901c407ca$653c10c0$7dc2f63f@Desktop> > I am trying to automate, without going to design view, the ability of > > taking an access graph on a report and putting it on a power point > > slide. Do you have a successful method of doing this? > > Thanks > > John.Eget From joeget at vgernet.net Thu Mar 11 18:39:24 2004 From: joeget at vgernet.net (John Eget) Date: Thu, 11 Mar 2004 19:39:24 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] date function Message-ID: <015201c407ca$7b6a78a0$7dc2f63f@Desktop> I had the oddest thing happen today, My databases do not show =Date(), but only on the new HPs in work. Has anyone come across this before? John From Subscriptions at servicexp.com Thu Mar 11 18:41:53 2004 From: Subscriptions at servicexp.com (Robert Gracie) Date: Thu, 11 Mar 2004 19:41:53 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] active design view in mde In-Reply-To: <00bb01c407bf$16f80f00$7dc2f63f@Desktop> Message-ID: If I understand your question,...No you can't. Robert Gracie www.servicexp.com -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of John Eget Sent: Thursday, March 11, 2004 6:18 PM To: AccessD at databaseadvisors.com Subject: [AccessD] active design view in mde Is there anyway to active design view in an application that had been compiled in an mde format? Thanks John -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From d.dick at uws.edu.au Thu Mar 11 18:44:58 2004 From: d.dick at uws.edu.au (Darren DICK) Date: Fri, 12 Mar 2004 11:44:58 +1100 Subject: [AccessD] active design view in mde References: <00bb01c407bf$16f80f00$7dc2f63f@Desktop> Message-ID: <004c01c407cb$3eb6f630$48619a89@DDICK> Hi John No is the short answer, though you can get at the queries and the tables Darren ----- Original Message ----- From: "John Eget" To: Sent: Friday, March 12, 2004 10:17 AM Subject: [AccessD] active design view in mde > Is there anyway to active design view in an application that had been compiled in an mde format? > Thanks > John > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From KIsmert at TexasSystems.com Thu Mar 11 18:52:11 2004 From: KIsmert at TexasSystems.com (Ken Ismert) Date: Thu, 11 Mar 2004 18:52:11 -0600 Subject: [AccessD] ParamArray problem In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <000301c407cc$4172c560$2a3ca8c0@TEXASSYSTEMS.COM> John, Since variants can hold objects, and ParamArrays hold variants, I see no reason why you can't pass a ParamArray of objects in your code. What version of Access are you using? I made this simple code in A2K, SP3: Private Sub TestParamArraySub(ByRef rObj As Object, ParamArray vParms() As Variant) Dim vParm As Variant Debug.Print "LBound: " & LBound(vParms), "UBound: " & UBound(vParms) For Each vParm In vParms() Debug.Print vParm Next End Sub When I call it with TestParamArraySub Nothing, I get: LBound: 0 UBound: -1 I traced it, and the Debug.Print does not get executed with an empty ParamArray. In other words, correct operation. Is this a service pack or update issue? Perhaps you should decompile? -Ken From martyconnelly at shaw.ca Thu Mar 11 19:09:47 2004 From: martyconnelly at shaw.ca (MartyConnelly) Date: Thu, 11 Mar 2004 17:09:47 -0800 Subject: [AccessD] date on HP PCs References: <00b701c407be$e0afba10$7dc2f63f@Desktop> Message-ID: <40510DDB.2090208@shaw.ca> Probably a missing reference. On the HP's open up the mdb modules Tools--> Reference and check for the flagged missing ones. You may have something like a specific reference pointer to ADO MDAC 2.5 and say you are using WinXP( it will only have ADO 2.7 by default.) John Eget wrote: >I had the oddest thing happen today, My databases do not show =Date(), but only on the new HPs in work. >Has anyone come across this before? >John > > -- Marty Connelly Victoria, B.C. Canada From martyconnelly at shaw.ca Thu Mar 11 19:05:15 2004 From: martyconnelly at shaw.ca (MartyConnelly) Date: Thu, 11 Mar 2004 17:05:15 -0800 Subject: [AccessD] Access 2000 ADP's and DataSheet views - Crosspost References: <404F8D9B.6050809@verizon.net> <4050D933.7070901@shaw.ca> <4050E0AF.2050903@verizon.net> Message-ID: <40510CCB.8000905@shaw.ca> Acckk. Is there some reason you haven't gone to Access or Office 2000 SR-3? It has been out almost 3 years. Francisco H Tapia wrote: > That's not really the problem tho I didn't know things got worse as > you upgraded down the MS Access path :(. > > The problem occurs when you have for example Columns Priority, OnDate, > and Status, and you filter of any combination of the 3, in order to > get your view of the subset down. > > When you then turn around and want to modify data in either one of the > filtered/sorted columns, the Datasheet proceeds to drop the filter and > sort dumping you out of your filter and previously set sort. > > however if you sort on a set of fields (mirrors) > (sproc looks like this: > Select > Priority As SortPriority, > Priority, > OnDate AS SortOnDate, > OnDate, > Status AS SortOnStatus, > Status > From Table1 > ) > > now you can use the Sort columns to filter and sort w/o loosing your > filter and sort settings in the datasheet. my current workaround is > to lock out the sort columns and remember NOT to try to type into them > :)... this totaly bites, but it's Access2000 SR1a of course there's > gonna be bugs. :( > > > MartyConnelly wrote: > >> I don't know if this is the cause; just came across it in fixes >> manifest of Access XP SP3 just released >> >> >> ACC2002: Error Message: Cannot Apply Filter on One or More Fields That >> Are Specified in the Filter Property >> >> http://support.microsoft.com/default.aspx?kbid=814094 >> >> This problem may occur when you connect to Microsoft SQL Server with >> credentials that are different from the credentials of the owner of >> the table that you want to filter. >> >> Francisco H Tapia wrote: >> >>> re-posted from the SqlServer list :) >>> >>> Quick questions, has anyone on the list tried to use a datasheet >>> view form bound to a view or sproc and found that if you filter out >>> the display (datasheet) that upon making changes to any field the >>> datasheet looses it's Filter? >>> >>> Thanks, >>> >> > > -- Marty Connelly Victoria, B.C. Canada From jmhla at earthlink.net Thu Mar 11 19:14:07 2004 From: jmhla at earthlink.net (jmhla at earthlink.net) Date: Thu, 11 Mar 2004 20:14:07 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Watching Data Attn:John Colby Message-ID: <115380-2200435121147447@M2W058.mail2web.com> John, I was looking thriugh the downloads of the Access Web Ring. http://www.mvps.org/access/resources/downloads.htm There was an A97(?) sample of a history db to watch changes in tables. Will that help you? -------------------------------------------------------------------- mail2web - Check your email from the web at http://mail2web.com/ . From martyconnelly at shaw.ca Thu Mar 11 20:07:37 2004 From: martyconnelly at shaw.ca (MartyConnelly) Date: Thu, 11 Mar 2004 18:07:37 -0800 Subject: [AccessD] active design view in mde References: <00bb01c407bf$16f80f00$7dc2f63f@Desktop> Message-ID: <40511B69.1070200@shaw.ca> Nope cause you can't recompile the original source. You might be able to write your own emulation VBA code, but definitely not for the feint of heart. Or buy a license for VBA and write it into a VB6 program or maybe put all your main code into a mda that is compiled with removed source and do your design view procedures from an mdb that calls all your code from the mda. Licensed VBA was around $10,000 a few years back from Summit Software which can reduced a lot by assigning royalties. They may have lowered the cost again. http://msdn.microsoft.com/vba/license/process.asp John Eget wrote: >Is there anyway to active design view in an application that had been compiled in an mde format? >Thanks >John > > -- Marty Connelly Victoria, B.C. Canada From martyconnelly at shaw.ca Thu Mar 11 20:29:46 2004 From: martyconnelly at shaw.ca (MartyConnelly) Date: Thu, 11 Mar 2004 18:29:46 -0800 Subject: [AccessD] question on normalization References: Message-ID: <4051209A.8030800@shaw.ca> There are three or four good web services like USPS that provide this info, live via a soap call, of course you need an internet connection. You can interrogate these services from Access with just XML and a SOAP envelope over HTTP. You dont need all the soap toolkit jazz unless you want to write the proxy classes. They will also verify that the address is valid too. Such as street name spelling and number range. You can also buy the info via quarterly CD's. John W. Colby wrote: >David, > >Did you fill in this table with which Zips were in which town etc.? Or is >there a standard db out there somewhere with this stuff? > >John W. Colby >www.ColbyConsulting.com > >-----Original Message----- >From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com >[mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of David McAfee >Sent: Thursday, March 11, 2004 3:49 PM >To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' >Subject: RE: [AccessD] question on normalization > > >I our last system, we had a Zipcode table with 5 fields (and 45K+ records): >ZipID (PK Autonumber) >ZipCode (text,5) >City (text, 30) >State (text, 2) >DefaultCity (yes/no) > >I would look up a city based on zipcode entry. One of three results could >happen: > >0 records returned: Prompt to check if zipcode entry (later evolved into >adding new city) >1 record returned: populate city and state onto form > > >>1 record returned: pop up a mini screen with a list box showing all of the >> >> >cities using that zipcode. The default city is selected with the OK button >having focus. > >I would store every part of the address together for a given address. > >In our new system, we have the similar set up as above, but we only keep the >ZipID (ID, for the city, state and Zip) with the address. >The extra joins needed now are a bit of a pita, so I could imagine how much >more it would be to use a junction table containing an CSZid, CityID, Stid & >ZipID. > >I guess it all boils down to what level of normalization do you want to go? >3rd, 4th? > >Oh, btw, are you only dealing with US addresses or INTL addresses too? >Because that will add some twists too ;) >David > > > >-----Original Message----- >From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com >[mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of John Clark >Sent: Thursday, March 11, 2004 12:02 PM >To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com >Subject: [AccessD] question on normalization > > >quick question: > >I have a program that will be populated with a 'regional' group of >people--this meaning that everyone's address will be within this county. >So I am thinking that I can speed up entry, by using a drop-down for zip >codes and filling the town name from that. My question is, would it be >proper to have a separate table for town and another for zip code, even >though zip code would be a single field table? The town table would have >three tables, with one being a link to the Zip Code table, and the Zip >Code table would have a single field--"Zip". > >Thanks > >John W Clark > > >-- >_______________________________________________ >AccessD mailing list >AccessD at databaseadvisors.com >http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd >Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com >-- >_______________________________________________ >AccessD mailing list >AccessD at databaseadvisors.com >http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd >Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > > -- Marty Connelly Victoria, B.C. Canada From dwaters at usinternet.com Thu Mar 11 20:35:17 2004 From: dwaters at usinternet.com (Dan Waters) Date: Thu, 11 Mar 2004 20:35:17 -0600 Subject: [AccessD] date function In-Reply-To: <622421.1079052008202.JavaMail.root@sniper2.marix.com> Message-ID: <000001c407da$a82887f0$de1811d8@DanWaters> John, In every database I've made on every PC, if I type in Date(), the two parentheses disappear and the word Date is left (in VBA code). In the source property for a control, if I typed in =Date(), what I typed in always stayed, but occasionally (and unrepeatedly), the function didn't work. I found out that that the =Now() function always worked if typed into a control's source property. So I quite typing =Date() into the source property of a control and instead call the following function which is stored in a standard module: Public Function CurrentDate() As Date CurrentDate = CDate(DatePart("m", Now()) & "/" & DatePart("d", Now()) _ & "/" & DatePart("yyyy", Now())) End Function HTH, Dan Waters -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of John Eget Sent: Thursday, March 11, 2004 6:39 PM To: AccessD at databaseadvisors.com Subject: [AccessD] date function I had the oddest thing happen today, My databases do not show =Date(), but only on the new HPs in work. Has anyone come across this before? John -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com Thu Mar 11 20:45:32 2004 From: jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com (John W. Colby) Date: Thu, 11 Mar 2004 21:45:32 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] question on normalization In-Reply-To: <4051209A.8030800@shaw.ca> Message-ID: uhhh... do you have code to do this? I am fresh out of soap, my 3 year old son was playing with it and... well.... let's just say he's one clean little boy! ;-) John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of MartyConnelly Sent: Thursday, March 11, 2004 9:30 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] question on normalization There are three or four good web services like USPS that provide this info, live via a soap call, of course you need an internet connection. You can interrogate these services from Access with just XML and a SOAP envelope over HTTP. You dont need all the soap toolkit jazz unless you want to write the proxy classes. They will also verify that the address is valid too. Such as street name spelling and number range. You can also buy the info via quarterly CD's. John W. Colby wrote: >David, > >Did you fill in this table with which Zips were in which town etc.? Or is >there a standard db out there somewhere with this stuff? > >John W. Colby >www.ColbyConsulting.com > >-----Original Message----- >From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com >[mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of David McAfee >Sent: Thursday, March 11, 2004 3:49 PM >To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' >Subject: RE: [AccessD] question on normalization > > >I our last system, we had a Zipcode table with 5 fields (and 45K+ records): >ZipID (PK Autonumber) >ZipCode (text,5) >City (text, 30) >State (text, 2) >DefaultCity (yes/no) > >I would look up a city based on zipcode entry. One of three results could >happen: > >0 records returned: Prompt to check if zipcode entry (later evolved into >adding new city) >1 record returned: populate city and state onto form > > >>1 record returned: pop up a mini screen with a list box showing all of the >> >> >cities using that zipcode. The default city is selected with the OK button >having focus. > >I would store every part of the address together for a given address. > >In our new system, we have the similar set up as above, but we only keep the >ZipID (ID, for the city, state and Zip) with the address. >The extra joins needed now are a bit of a pita, so I could imagine how much >more it would be to use a junction table containing an CSZid, CityID, Stid & >ZipID. > >I guess it all boils down to what level of normalization do you want to go? >3rd, 4th? > >Oh, btw, are you only dealing with US addresses or INTL addresses too? >Because that will add some twists too ;) >David > > > >-----Original Message----- >From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com >[mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of John Clark >Sent: Thursday, March 11, 2004 12:02 PM >To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com >Subject: [AccessD] question on normalization > > >quick question: > >I have a program that will be populated with a 'regional' group of >people--this meaning that everyone's address will be within this county. >So I am thinking that I can speed up entry, by using a drop-down for zip >codes and filling the town name from that. My question is, would it be >proper to have a separate table for town and another for zip code, even >though zip code would be a single field table? The town table would have >three tables, with one being a link to the Zip Code table, and the Zip >Code table would have a single field--"Zip". > >Thanks > >John W Clark > > >-- >_______________________________________________ >AccessD mailing list >AccessD at databaseadvisors.com >http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd >Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com >-- >_______________________________________________ >AccessD mailing list >AccessD at databaseadvisors.com >http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd >Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > > -- Marty Connelly Victoria, B.C. Canada -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com Thu Mar 11 20:51:57 2004 From: jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com (John W. Colby) Date: Thu, 11 Mar 2004 21:51:57 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Framework Discussion - Class Interface In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Unfortunately it has come to the point in our discussion where we have to add a little common interface to all of our classes in order to provide us with troubleshooting tools and debugging help. If you remember from Collections, classes and Garbage Collection I discussed some of the issues with classes, particularly those classes which reference forms and controls. Unless we are careful we can create problems unloading the classes, which can cause memory leaks and even cause Access to fail to close. Well its time to address those issues. Please bear with me here, I really don't want to lose anyone over these issues and the required code, but I know it can take a little while to get used to this stuff being in the class headers "clouding the issue". I am going to discuss a Template class which can then be cut and copied to start a new class. All of the necessary interface structures are there; we just add our own class specific stuff to flesh out our new class. You can see all of this code in one place in clsTemplate in the example code database. The Comment Block The first thing we need to do is add a standard header to our classes. I use a section for the typical author, date, copyright etc. This area is used to extensively document this class, with behaviors explained, why we have them, as much documentation as you can put in here so that when you come back next week you can figure out what you were doing. '.============================================================= '.Copyright 2004 Colby Consulting. All rights reserved. '.Phone : '.E-mail : jcolby at colbyconsulting.com '.============================================================= ' DO NOT DELETE THE COMMENTS ABOVE. All other comments in this module ' may be deleted from production code, but lines above must remain. '-------------------------------------------------------------- '.Description : '. '.Written By : John W. Colby '.Date Created : 02/26/2004 ' Rev. History : ' ' Comments : '.------------------------------------------------------------- '. ' ADDITIONAL NOTES: ' '-------------------------------------------------------------- ' ' INSTRUCTIONS: '.------------------------------------------------------------- '. Below that I add standard sections for constants and variables, with some of these already defined. 'THESE CONSTANTS AND VARIABLES ARE USED INTERNALLY TO THE CLASS '*+ Class constant declaration Private Const DebugPrint As Boolean = False Private Const mcstrModuleName As String = "clsFW" '*- Class constants declaration DebugPrint will ultimately allow us to turn on/off printing of debug statements in this specific module. We do this by calling a debugprint function instead of just putting debug.print statements directly in code. We pass in the constant above and the statement prints or doesn't based on the value of the constant passed in. Set it true and all debug statements in the module will print, set it false, they don't print. We have a constant mcstrModuleName that holds a string that is literally the class' module name as seen in the database window, modules tab. Private Const mcstrModuleName As String = "clsFW" Next come class variables: '*+ Class variables declarations 'POINTER TO THE OBJECT THAT CREATED THIS CLASS INSTANCE (THE PARENT OF THE CLASS) Private mobjParent As Object 'THE CHILDREN COLLECTION IS USED TO STORE REFERENCES TO ALL CHILD OBJECTS (CLASSES) THAT NEED TO BE INITIALIZED AND DESTROYED. USUALLY THESE WILL BE FOR CONTROLS SUCH AS THE TAB CONTROL OR THE RECORD SELECTOR, BUT THEY MAY ALSO BE FOR BUSINESS RULES CLASSES, etc. Private mobjChildren As Collection 'THE STRING INSTANCE NAME IS BUILT UP FROM THE MODULE NAME AND A RANDOM INT Public mstrInstanceName As String Public mstrName As String '*- Class variables declarations At this point we also need to discuss some of the process that we use for "automating" the setup and teardown of classes because the entire standard header is used for this purpose. You will add your own variables in here but the stuff you see so far is all framework interface. Classes rarely "standalone" in the framework. There are often classes that use child classes, which may themselves use child classes. A good example is the dclsFrm (the form class) uses dclsCbo (the combo class) which will use dclsDepObj (the dependent object class). Obviously the form class may have dozens of control classes found and instantiated by the control scanner function, with pointers to these control classes stored in a collection. A combo may have one or several objects which "depend on it" to filter its data, thus the combo class has a clsDepObj which stores pointers to classes for the controls that depend on the combo. All of this class using class using class begs for a common interface that is just always there in every class. Thus each class is passed a pointer to its parent object which is then stored in mobjParent. '*+ Class variables declarations 'POINTER TO THE OBJECT THAT CREATED THIS CLASS INSTANCE (THE PARENT OF THE CLASS) Private mobjParent As Object The parent object is the class that instantiated this class. dclsFrm is the parent object to dclsCbo. dclsCbo is the parent object to clsDepObj and so forth. A form passes "Me" to dclsFrm, dclsFrm passes "Me" to dclsCbo, dclsCbo passes "Me" to clsDepObj etc. Me in all three cases means the pointer to the current class. Me in the form means the form's built-in class, me in dclsFrm means a pointer to that dclsFrm instance. By passing a pointer to the parent, any child class can get at any of the parent's properties and methods that it may need. In fact the parent object may have properties and methods added just for the express use of specific child classes that it knows it must deal with. Additionally, each class has a children collection which we name mcolChildren. mcolChildren holds pointers to child objects (classes). 'THE CHILDREN COLLECTION IS USED TO STORE REFERENCES TO ALL CHILD OBJECTS (CLASSES) THAT NEED TO BE INITIALIZED AND DESTROYED. USUALLY THESE WILL BE FOR CONTROLS SUCH AS THE TAB CONTROL OR THE RECORD SELECTOR, BUT THEY MAY ALSO BE FOR BUSINESS RULES CLASSES, etc. Private mobjChildren As Collection The string instance name is built from mcstrModuleName and other info. I am moving to a "lineage name" meaning each class uses it's parent's name plus it's class name. That makes it very easy to tell how any given class "came to be". 'THE STRING INSTANCE NAME IS BUILT UP FROM THE MODULE NAME AND A RANDOM INT Public mstrInstanceName As String And finally a simple name variable Public mstrName As String This variable will usually be the simple name used as the key when the class is saved in its parent's children class. In other words, a class is always saved in its parent's children collection so that the parent can clean up all of its children when the parent class terminates. The name used as the key into this collection is often something simple like a control name. We do this so that we can just index into the class using a readily available piece of information (the control's name) to get the class associated with that object. Functional Constants and Variables I like to organize the header with all the constants grouped together, the variables, then any custom events declared that this class may raise. If a class gets very complicated it may be convenient to group functional pieces together. Bottom line, this is about organization and as long as you make an effort to routinely follow organizational guidelines you will be better off than if you just let madness reign. '.------------------------------------------------------------- 'THESE CONSTANTS AND VARIABLES ARE USED BY THE CLASS TO IMPLEMENT CLASS FUNCTIONALITY '*+ custom constants declaration ' '*- Custom constants declaration '*+ custom variables declarations ' Private WithEvents mfrm As Form 'A form reference passed in '*- custom variables declarations ' 'Define any events this class will raise here '*+ custom events Declarations 'Public Event MyEvent(Status As Integer) '*- custom events declarations Class Init/Term Next I place the class' Initialize sub with all Set statements instantiating any objects that the class dimensions in its header. Initialize is an Event handler, i.e. the class fires this event when the SET statement instantiates the class and the class starts to load. '.------------------------------------------------------------- 'THESE FUNCTIONS / SUBS ARE USED INTERNALLY TO THE CLASS '*+ Private Init/Terminate Interface Private Sub Class_Initialize() On Error GoTo Err_Class_Initialize assDebugPrint "initialize " & mcstrModuleName, DebugPrint Set mcolChildren = New Collection Exit_Class_Initialize: Exit Sub Err_Class_Initialize: MsgBox err.Description, , "Error in Sub clsTemplate.Class_Initialize" Resume Exit_Class_Initialize Resume 0 '.FOR TROUBLESHOOTING End Sub Init() is the first class method usually called, and here we pass in variables to the class that we need in order to get the ball rolling. 'INITIALIZE THE CLASS Public Sub Init(ByRef robjParent As Object) Set mobjParent = robjParent 'IF THE PARENT OBJECT HAS A CHILDREN COLLECTION, PUT MYSELF IN IT assDebugPrint "init " & mstrInstanceName, DebugPrint End Sub The class Terminate event fires when the last pointer to the class is set to nothing. Private Sub Class_Terminate() On Error Resume Next assDebugPrint "Terminate " & mcstrModuleName, DebugPrint Term End Sub Term() is a class method and it is normally called by the cleanup code of the object that created this class instance in the first place. For example, dclsFrm creates a class instance for each control and places a pointer to that class in its Children collection. dclsFrm will then iterate this collection, calling the term method of all the child objects in the children collection when the form is closing, before removing the pointers to the objects from the collection. I also call term from the class' Terminate event. In all cases a class will close automatically when the last pointer to the class is set to nothing. Thus in theory just setting the pointer to the class to nothing should cause terminate to fire, which calls term. This seems like "double work" and in fact it is, however I do so because it is quite possible to set a reference to self for instance, where this class needs to hold itself open regardless of anything else. If I have a pointer to the class in some other class, and I just set that pointer to nothing, then the class still remains open since the last pointer to it still exists, in its own header. However if I call the terminate method, I clean up all pointers including pointer to self, then when I set my external pointer to this class instance to nothing, the class will close properly. This is not a scenario that is used often, but it is used and I just like to play it safe by always calling the term() of a class instance, then set the pointer to the class to nothing, which fires the terminate event, which does call term again. We can do something like setting a static variable in term to tell us that the term() method already ran and not to run it again the second time. 'CLEAN UP ALL OF THE CLASS POINTERS Public Sub Term() On Error Resume Next Static blnRan As Boolean 'The term may run more than once so If blnRan Then Exit Sub 'just exit if it already ran blnRan = True assDebugPrint "Term() " & mcstrModuleName, DebugPrint Set mobjParent = Nothing Set mcolChildren = Nothing End Sub '*- Public Init/Terminate interface Standard Properties and Methods We have discussed the header and the init / term interface. Next we need to discuss standard properties and methods. Obviously we need a way for other classes (or the developer) to get at the data in the header. The ModuleName string, InstanceName, and Name are all properties that just read the constants or variables holding these data and return them as strings. In order to group them in Intellisense I use Name as the first part of the property. 'get the name of this class / module Property Get NameModule() As String NameModule = mcstrModuleName End Property Public Property Get Name() As String Name = mstrName End Property Public Property Get NameInstance() As String NameInstance = mstrInstanceName End Property Public Property Let NameInstance(strName As String) mstrInstanceName = strName End Property And finally we have properties that get the parent object and the children collection. '*+ Parent/Child links interface 'get the pointer to this object's parent Public Property Get Parent() As Object Set Parent = mobjParent End Property 'get the pointer to this object's children Public Property Get Children() As Collection Set Children = mcolChildren End Property '*- Parent/Child links interface The above is all of the standard class interface. It is important to understand that all of the above is in every class, which gives us a very standardized interface to what I will call the framework class interface. These things have very little to do with the functionality of the class, what the class actually does in the framework. All it does is let us set up and tear down the classes in a standard way. That may be the most critical piece however since if a class doesn't terminate it can under certain circumstances hang Access, which can unfortunately even hang the lesser Windows versions such as Windows 98. The three finger salute is not something I want my app forcing on the user! Organizing Class functionality Finally, the sections below are just more organizational stuff. I like to group all like things together. Again this is your call as to whether you want to do this kind of organization. '.------------------------------------------------------------------------- 'THESE FUNCTIONS SINK EVENTS DECLARED WITHEVENTS IN THIS CLASS '*+ Form WithEvent interface '*- Form WithEvent interface 'THESE FUNCTIONS / SUBS ARE USED TO IMPLEMENT CLASS FUNCTIONALITY '*+PRIVATE Class function / sub declaration '*-PRIVATE Class function / sub declaration '*+PUBLIC Class function / sub declaration '*-PUBLIC Class function / sub declaration Summary A framework is going to get complex, with many classes, classes instantiating other classes, setting up child object chains as they initialize and tearing down their child object chains as they terminate. It is critical that we have a system in place to assist us in getting this piece right or we will end up with chaos and applications that don't cleanup correctly. All of the stuff that I have shown above is an attempt to standardize the setup and teardown so that we can always count on doing things the same way, regardless of what class we are instantiating. Consistency goes a long way towards helping us learn this stuff quickly, and getting all the pieces to play together peacefully. John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com From caa at highway.com.br Thu Mar 11 21:17:55 2004 From: caa at highway.com.br (Carlos Alberto Alves) Date: Fri, 12 Mar 2004 00:17:55 -0300 Subject: [AccessD] Converting Access 97 to Access XP FE& BE In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On Wed, 10 Mar 2004 13:12:18 -0800, Charlotte Foust wrote: > Unless you're planning on using ADO exclusively, DAO works just fine in > XP, and you still have to fall back on DAO for somethings anyhow. XP > has no problem with either CurrentDB or CurrentProject, and there is a > certain basic support for both ADO and DAO built into XP even if you > remove *both* the references. I recommend you go through and > specifically change your declarations throughout to DAO.Recordset, > DAO.Database, etc., both to remove any confusion the engine has and to > make it easier to spot them in your code. There are certain objects > that have the same name in both models, and without the specific > declaration, Access can get them mixed up and think you're trying to use > an invalid method or property. > > Charlotte Foust Hi Greg! I have a .PDF file about DAO to ADO conversion. It is 550Kb. May I send it you offline? -- ****************************** * Carlos Alberto Alves * * Child Neurologist * * Systems Analyst/Programmer * * Rio de Janeiro, Brazil * * mailto:caa at highway.com.br * ****************************** From accessd at shaw.ca Thu Mar 11 22:14:25 2004 From: accessd at shaw.ca (Jim Lawrence (AccessD)) Date: Thu, 11 Mar 2004 20:14:25 -0800 Subject: [AccessD] Framework Discussion - Class Interface In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Fascinating :-) Jim -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of John W. Colby Sent: Thursday, March 11, 2004 6:52 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: [AccessD] Framework Discussion - Class Interface Unfortunately it has come to the point in our discussion where we have to add a little common interface to all of our classes in order to provide us with troubleshooting tools and debugging help. If you remember from Collections, classes and Garbage Collection I discussed some of the issues with classes, particularly those classes which reference forms and controls. Unless we are careful we can create problems unloading the classes, which can cause memory leaks and even cause Access to fail to close. Well its time to address those issues. Please bear with me here, I really don't want to lose anyone over these issues and the required code, but I know it can take a little while to get used to this stuff being in the class headers "clouding the issue". I am going to discuss a Template class which can then be cut and copied to start a new class. All of the necessary interface structures are there; we just add our own class specific stuff to flesh out our new class. You can see all of this code in one place in clsTemplate in the example code database. The Comment Block The first thing we need to do is add a standard header to our classes. I use a section for the typical author, date, copyright etc. This area is used to extensively document this class, with behaviors explained, why we have them, as much documentation as you can put in here so that when you come back next week you can figure out what you were doing. '.============================================================= '.Copyright 2004 Colby Consulting. All rights reserved. '.Phone : '.E-mail : jcolby at colbyconsulting.com '.============================================================= ' DO NOT DELETE THE COMMENTS ABOVE. All other comments in this module ' may be deleted from production code, but lines above must remain. '-------------------------------------------------------------- '.Description : '. '.Written By : John W. Colby '.Date Created : 02/26/2004 ' Rev. History : ' ' Comments : '.------------------------------------------------------------- '. ' ADDITIONAL NOTES: ' '-------------------------------------------------------------- ' ' INSTRUCTIONS: '.------------------------------------------------------------- '. Below that I add standard sections for constants and variables, with some of these already defined. 'THESE CONSTANTS AND VARIABLES ARE USED INTERNALLY TO THE CLASS '*+ Class constant declaration Private Const DebugPrint As Boolean = False Private Const mcstrModuleName As String = "clsFW" '*- Class constants declaration DebugPrint will ultimately allow us to turn on/off printing of debug statements in this specific module. We do this by calling a debugprint function instead of just putting debug.print statements directly in code. We pass in the constant above and the statement prints or doesn't based on the value of the constant passed in. Set it true and all debug statements in the module will print, set it false, they don't print. We have a constant mcstrModuleName that holds a string that is literally the class' module name as seen in the database window, modules tab. Private Const mcstrModuleName As String = "clsFW" Next come class variables: '*+ Class variables declarations 'POINTER TO THE OBJECT THAT CREATED THIS CLASS INSTANCE (THE PARENT OF THE CLASS) Private mobjParent As Object 'THE CHILDREN COLLECTION IS USED TO STORE REFERENCES TO ALL CHILD OBJECTS (CLASSES) THAT NEED TO BE INITIALIZED AND DESTROYED. USUALLY THESE WILL BE FOR CONTROLS SUCH AS THE TAB CONTROL OR THE RECORD SELECTOR, BUT THEY MAY ALSO BE FOR BUSINESS RULES CLASSES, etc. Private mobjChildren As Collection 'THE STRING INSTANCE NAME IS BUILT UP FROM THE MODULE NAME AND A RANDOM INT Public mstrInstanceName As String Public mstrName As String '*- Class variables declarations At this point we also need to discuss some of the process that we use for "automating" the setup and teardown of classes because the entire standard header is used for this purpose. You will add your own variables in here but the stuff you see so far is all framework interface. Classes rarely "standalone" in the framework. There are often classes that use child classes, which may themselves use child classes. A good example is the dclsFrm (the form class) uses dclsCbo (the combo class) which will use dclsDepObj (the dependent object class). Obviously the form class may have dozens of control classes found and instantiated by the control scanner function, with pointers to these control classes stored in a collection. A combo may have one or several objects which "depend on it" to filter its data, thus the combo class has a clsDepObj which stores pointers to classes for the controls that depend on the combo. All of this class using class using class begs for a common interface that is just always there in every class. Thus each class is passed a pointer to its parent object which is then stored in mobjParent. '*+ Class variables declarations 'POINTER TO THE OBJECT THAT CREATED THIS CLASS INSTANCE (THE PARENT OF THE CLASS) Private mobjParent As Object The parent object is the class that instantiated this class. dclsFrm is the parent object to dclsCbo. dclsCbo is the parent object to clsDepObj and so forth. A form passes "Me" to dclsFrm, dclsFrm passes "Me" to dclsCbo, dclsCbo passes "Me" to clsDepObj etc. Me in all three cases means the pointer to the current class. Me in the form means the form's built-in class, me in dclsFrm means a pointer to that dclsFrm instance. By passing a pointer to the parent, any child class can get at any of the parent's properties and methods that it may need. In fact the parent object may have properties and methods added just for the express use of specific child classes that it knows it must deal with. Additionally, each class has a children collection which we name mcolChildren. mcolChildren holds pointers to child objects (classes). 'THE CHILDREN COLLECTION IS USED TO STORE REFERENCES TO ALL CHILD OBJECTS (CLASSES) THAT NEED TO BE INITIALIZED AND DESTROYED. USUALLY THESE WILL BE FOR CONTROLS SUCH AS THE TAB CONTROL OR THE RECORD SELECTOR, BUT THEY MAY ALSO BE FOR BUSINESS RULES CLASSES, etc. Private mobjChildren As Collection The string instance name is built from mcstrModuleName and other info. I am moving to a "lineage name" meaning each class uses it's parent's name plus it's class name. That makes it very easy to tell how any given class "came to be". 'THE STRING INSTANCE NAME IS BUILT UP FROM THE MODULE NAME AND A RANDOM INT Public mstrInstanceName As String And finally a simple name variable Public mstrName As String This variable will usually be the simple name used as the key when the class is saved in its parent's children class. In other words, a class is always saved in its parent's children collection so that the parent can clean up all of its children when the parent class terminates. The name used as the key into this collection is often something simple like a control name. We do this so that we can just index into the class using a readily available piece of information (the control's name) to get the class associated with that object. Functional Constants and Variables I like to organize the header with all the constants grouped together, the variables, then any custom events declared that this class may raise. If a class gets very complicated it may be convenient to group functional pieces together. Bottom line, this is about organization and as long as you make an effort to routinely follow organizational guidelines you will be better off than if you just let madness reign. '.------------------------------------------------------------- 'THESE CONSTANTS AND VARIABLES ARE USED BY THE CLASS TO IMPLEMENT CLASS FUNCTIONALITY '*+ custom constants declaration ' '*- Custom constants declaration '*+ custom variables declarations ' Private WithEvents mfrm As Form 'A form reference passed in '*- custom variables declarations ' 'Define any events this class will raise here '*+ custom events Declarations 'Public Event MyEvent(Status As Integer) '*- custom events declarations Class Init/Term Next I place the class' Initialize sub with all Set statements instantiating any objects that the class dimensions in its header. Initialize is an Event handler, i.e. the class fires this event when the SET statement instantiates the class and the class starts to load. '.------------------------------------------------------------- 'THESE FUNCTIONS / SUBS ARE USED INTERNALLY TO THE CLASS '*+ Private Init/Terminate Interface Private Sub Class_Initialize() On Error GoTo Err_Class_Initialize assDebugPrint "initialize " & mcstrModuleName, DebugPrint Set mcolChildren = New Collection Exit_Class_Initialize: Exit Sub Err_Class_Initialize: MsgBox err.Description, , "Error in Sub clsTemplate.Class_Initialize" Resume Exit_Class_Initialize Resume 0 '.FOR TROUBLESHOOTING End Sub Init() is the first class method usually called, and here we pass in variables to the class that we need in order to get the ball rolling. 'INITIALIZE THE CLASS Public Sub Init(ByRef robjParent As Object) Set mobjParent = robjParent 'IF THE PARENT OBJECT HAS A CHILDREN COLLECTION, PUT MYSELF IN IT assDebugPrint "init " & mstrInstanceName, DebugPrint End Sub The class Terminate event fires when the last pointer to the class is set to nothing. Private Sub Class_Terminate() On Error Resume Next assDebugPrint "Terminate " & mcstrModuleName, DebugPrint Term End Sub Term() is a class method and it is normally called by the cleanup code of the object that created this class instance in the first place. For example, dclsFrm creates a class instance for each control and places a pointer to that class in its Children collection. dclsFrm will then iterate this collection, calling the term method of all the child objects in the children collection when the form is closing, before removing the pointers to the objects from the collection. I also call term from the class' Terminate event. In all cases a class will close automatically when the last pointer to the class is set to nothing. Thus in theory just setting the pointer to the class to nothing should cause terminate to fire, which calls term. This seems like "double work" and in fact it is, however I do so because it is quite possible to set a reference to self for instance, where this class needs to hold itself open regardless of anything else. If I have a pointer to the class in some other class, and I just set that pointer to nothing, then the class still remains open since the last pointer to it still exists, in its own header. However if I call the terminate method, I clean up all pointers including pointer to self, then when I set my external pointer to this class instance to nothing, the class will close properly. This is not a scenario that is used often, but it is used and I just like to play it safe by always calling the term() of a class instance, then set the pointer to the class to nothing, which fires the terminate event, which does call term again. We can do something like setting a static variable in term to tell us that the term() method already ran and not to run it again the second time. 'CLEAN UP ALL OF THE CLASS POINTERS Public Sub Term() On Error Resume Next Static blnRan As Boolean 'The term may run more than once so If blnRan Then Exit Sub 'just exit if it already ran blnRan = True assDebugPrint "Term() " & mcstrModuleName, DebugPrint Set mobjParent = Nothing Set mcolChildren = Nothing End Sub '*- Public Init/Terminate interface Standard Properties and Methods We have discussed the header and the init / term interface. Next we need to discuss standard properties and methods. Obviously we need a way for other classes (or the developer) to get at the data in the header. The ModuleName string, InstanceName, and Name are all properties that just read the constants or variables holding these data and return them as strings. In order to group them in Intellisense I use Name as the first part of the property. 'get the name of this class / module Property Get NameModule() As String NameModule = mcstrModuleName End Property Public Property Get Name() As String Name = mstrName End Property Public Property Get NameInstance() As String NameInstance = mstrInstanceName End Property Public Property Let NameInstance(strName As String) mstrInstanceName = strName End Property And finally we have properties that get the parent object and the children collection. '*+ Parent/Child links interface 'get the pointer to this object's parent Public Property Get Parent() As Object Set Parent = mobjParent End Property 'get the pointer to this object's children Public Property Get Children() As Collection Set Children = mcolChildren End Property '*- Parent/Child links interface The above is all of the standard class interface. It is important to understand that all of the above is in every class, which gives us a very standardized interface to what I will call the framework class interface. These things have very little to do with the functionality of the class, what the class actually does in the framework. All it does is let us set up and tear down the classes in a standard way. That may be the most critical piece however since if a class doesn't terminate it can under certain circumstances hang Access, which can unfortunately even hang the lesser Windows versions such as Windows 98. The three finger salute is not something I want my app forcing on the user! Organizing Class functionality Finally, the sections below are just more organizational stuff. I like to group all like things together. Again this is your call as to whether you want to do this kind of organization. '.------------------------------------------------------------------------- 'THESE FUNCTIONS SINK EVENTS DECLARED WITHEVENTS IN THIS CLASS '*+ Form WithEvent interface '*- Form WithEvent interface 'THESE FUNCTIONS / SUBS ARE USED TO IMPLEMENT CLASS FUNCTIONALITY '*+PRIVATE Class function / sub declaration '*-PRIVATE Class function / sub declaration '*+PUBLIC Class function / sub declaration '*-PUBLIC Class function / sub declaration Summary A framework is going to get complex, with many classes, classes instantiating other classes, setting up child object chains as they initialize and tearing down their child object chains as they terminate. It is critical that we have a system in place to assist us in getting this piece right or we will end up with chaos and applications that don't cleanup correctly. All of the stuff that I have shown above is an attempt to standardize the setup and teardown so that we can always count on doing things the same way, regardless of what class we are instantiating. Consistency goes a long way towards helping us learn this stuff quickly, and getting all the pieces to play together peacefully. John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com Thu Mar 11 22:46:21 2004 From: jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com (John W. Colby) Date: Thu, 11 Mar 2004 23:46:21 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Framework Discussion - Class Interface In-Reply-To: Message-ID: LOL. You pick THIS email to call fascinating? That is fascinating! John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Jim Lawrence (AccessD) Sent: Thursday, March 11, 2004 11:14 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] Framework Discussion - Class Interface Fascinating :-) Jim -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of John W. Colby Sent: Thursday, March 11, 2004 6:52 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: [AccessD] Framework Discussion - Class Interface Unfortunately it has come to the point in our discussion where we have to add a little common interface to all of our classes in order to provide us with troubleshooting tools and debugging help. If you remember from Collections, classes and Garbage Collection I discussed some of the issues with classes, particularly those classes which reference forms and controls. Unless we are careful we can create problems unloading the classes, which can cause memory leaks and even cause Access to fail to close. Well its time to address those issues. Please bear with me here, I really don't want to lose anyone over these issues and the required code, but I know it can take a little while to get used to this stuff being in the class headers "clouding the issue". I am going to discuss a Template class which can then be cut and copied to start a new class. All of the necessary interface structures are there; we just add our own class specific stuff to flesh out our new class. You can see all of this code in one place in clsTemplate in the example code database. The Comment Block The first thing we need to do is add a standard header to our classes. I use a section for the typical author, date, copyright etc. This area is used to extensively document this class, with behaviors explained, why we have them, as much documentation as you can put in here so that when you come back next week you can figure out what you were doing. '.============================================================= '.Copyright 2004 Colby Consulting. All rights reserved. '.Phone : '.E-mail : jcolby at colbyconsulting.com '.============================================================= ' DO NOT DELETE THE COMMENTS ABOVE. All other comments in this module ' may be deleted from production code, but lines above must remain. '-------------------------------------------------------------- '.Description : '. '.Written By : John W. Colby '.Date Created : 02/26/2004 ' Rev. History : ' ' Comments : '.------------------------------------------------------------- '. ' ADDITIONAL NOTES: ' '-------------------------------------------------------------- ' ' INSTRUCTIONS: '.------------------------------------------------------------- '. Below that I add standard sections for constants and variables, with some of these already defined. 'THESE CONSTANTS AND VARIABLES ARE USED INTERNALLY TO THE CLASS '*+ Class constant declaration Private Const DebugPrint As Boolean = False Private Const mcstrModuleName As String = "clsFW" '*- Class constants declaration DebugPrint will ultimately allow us to turn on/off printing of debug statements in this specific module. We do this by calling a debugprint function instead of just putting debug.print statements directly in code. We pass in the constant above and the statement prints or doesn't based on the value of the constant passed in. Set it true and all debug statements in the module will print, set it false, they don't print. We have a constant mcstrModuleName that holds a string that is literally the class' module name as seen in the database window, modules tab. Private Const mcstrModuleName As String = "clsFW" Next come class variables: '*+ Class variables declarations 'POINTER TO THE OBJECT THAT CREATED THIS CLASS INSTANCE (THE PARENT OF THE CLASS) Private mobjParent As Object 'THE CHILDREN COLLECTION IS USED TO STORE REFERENCES TO ALL CHILD OBJECTS (CLASSES) THAT NEED TO BE INITIALIZED AND DESTROYED. USUALLY THESE WILL BE FOR CONTROLS SUCH AS THE TAB CONTROL OR THE RECORD SELECTOR, BUT THEY MAY ALSO BE FOR BUSINESS RULES CLASSES, etc. Private mobjChildren As Collection 'THE STRING INSTANCE NAME IS BUILT UP FROM THE MODULE NAME AND A RANDOM INT Public mstrInstanceName As String Public mstrName As String '*- Class variables declarations At this point we also need to discuss some of the process that we use for "automating" the setup and teardown of classes because the entire standard header is used for this purpose. You will add your own variables in here but the stuff you see so far is all framework interface. Classes rarely "standalone" in the framework. There are often classes that use child classes, which may themselves use child classes. A good example is the dclsFrm (the form class) uses dclsCbo (the combo class) which will use dclsDepObj (the dependent object class). Obviously the form class may have dozens of control classes found and instantiated by the control scanner function, with pointers to these control classes stored in a collection. A combo may have one or several objects which "depend on it" to filter its data, thus the combo class has a clsDepObj which stores pointers to classes for the controls that depend on the combo. All of this class using class using class begs for a common interface that is just always there in every class. Thus each class is passed a pointer to its parent object which is then stored in mobjParent. '*+ Class variables declarations 'POINTER TO THE OBJECT THAT CREATED THIS CLASS INSTANCE (THE PARENT OF THE CLASS) Private mobjParent As Object The parent object is the class that instantiated this class. dclsFrm is the parent object to dclsCbo. dclsCbo is the parent object to clsDepObj and so forth. A form passes "Me" to dclsFrm, dclsFrm passes "Me" to dclsCbo, dclsCbo passes "Me" to clsDepObj etc. Me in all three cases means the pointer to the current class. Me in the form means the form's built-in class, me in dclsFrm means a pointer to that dclsFrm instance. By passing a pointer to the parent, any child class can get at any of the parent's properties and methods that it may need. In fact the parent object may have properties and methods added just for the express use of specific child classes that it knows it must deal with. Additionally, each class has a children collection which we name mcolChildren. mcolChildren holds pointers to child objects (classes). 'THE CHILDREN COLLECTION IS USED TO STORE REFERENCES TO ALL CHILD OBJECTS (CLASSES) THAT NEED TO BE INITIALIZED AND DESTROYED. USUALLY THESE WILL BE FOR CONTROLS SUCH AS THE TAB CONTROL OR THE RECORD SELECTOR, BUT THEY MAY ALSO BE FOR BUSINESS RULES CLASSES, etc. Private mobjChildren As Collection The string instance name is built from mcstrModuleName and other info. I am moving to a "lineage name" meaning each class uses it's parent's name plus it's class name. That makes it very easy to tell how any given class "came to be". 'THE STRING INSTANCE NAME IS BUILT UP FROM THE MODULE NAME AND A RANDOM INT Public mstrInstanceName As String And finally a simple name variable Public mstrName As String This variable will usually be the simple name used as the key when the class is saved in its parent's children class. In other words, a class is always saved in its parent's children collection so that the parent can clean up all of its children when the parent class terminates. The name used as the key into this collection is often something simple like a control name. We do this so that we can just index into the class using a readily available piece of information (the control's name) to get the class associated with that object. Functional Constants and Variables I like to organize the header with all the constants grouped together, the variables, then any custom events declared that this class may raise. If a class gets very complicated it may be convenient to group functional pieces together. Bottom line, this is about organization and as long as you make an effort to routinely follow organizational guidelines you will be better off than if you just let madness reign. '.------------------------------------------------------------- 'THESE CONSTANTS AND VARIABLES ARE USED BY THE CLASS TO IMPLEMENT CLASS FUNCTIONALITY '*+ custom constants declaration ' '*- Custom constants declaration '*+ custom variables declarations ' Private WithEvents mfrm As Form 'A form reference passed in '*- custom variables declarations ' 'Define any events this class will raise here '*+ custom events Declarations 'Public Event MyEvent(Status As Integer) '*- custom events declarations Class Init/Term Next I place the class' Initialize sub with all Set statements instantiating any objects that the class dimensions in its header. Initialize is an Event handler, i.e. the class fires this event when the SET statement instantiates the class and the class starts to load. '.------------------------------------------------------------- 'THESE FUNCTIONS / SUBS ARE USED INTERNALLY TO THE CLASS '*+ Private Init/Terminate Interface Private Sub Class_Initialize() On Error GoTo Err_Class_Initialize assDebugPrint "initialize " & mcstrModuleName, DebugPrint Set mcolChildren = New Collection Exit_Class_Initialize: Exit Sub Err_Class_Initialize: MsgBox err.Description, , "Error in Sub clsTemplate.Class_Initialize" Resume Exit_Class_Initialize Resume 0 '.FOR TROUBLESHOOTING End Sub Init() is the first class method usually called, and here we pass in variables to the class that we need in order to get the ball rolling. 'INITIALIZE THE CLASS Public Sub Init(ByRef robjParent As Object) Set mobjParent = robjParent 'IF THE PARENT OBJECT HAS A CHILDREN COLLECTION, PUT MYSELF IN IT assDebugPrint "init " & mstrInstanceName, DebugPrint End Sub The class Terminate event fires when the last pointer to the class is set to nothing. Private Sub Class_Terminate() On Error Resume Next assDebugPrint "Terminate " & mcstrModuleName, DebugPrint Term End Sub Term() is a class method and it is normally called by the cleanup code of the object that created this class instance in the first place. For example, dclsFrm creates a class instance for each control and places a pointer to that class in its Children collection. dclsFrm will then iterate this collection, calling the term method of all the child objects in the children collection when the form is closing, before removing the pointers to the objects from the collection. I also call term from the class' Terminate event. In all cases a class will close automatically when the last pointer to the class is set to nothing. Thus in theory just setting the pointer to the class to nothing should cause terminate to fire, which calls term. This seems like "double work" and in fact it is, however I do so because it is quite possible to set a reference to self for instance, where this class needs to hold itself open regardless of anything else. If I have a pointer to the class in some other class, and I just set that pointer to nothing, then the class still remains open since the last pointer to it still exists, in its own header. However if I call the terminate method, I clean up all pointers including pointer to self, then when I set my external pointer to this class instance to nothing, the class will close properly. This is not a scenario that is used often, but it is used and I just like to play it safe by always calling the term() of a class instance, then set the pointer to the class to nothing, which fires the terminate event, which does call term again. We can do something like setting a static variable in term to tell us that the term() method already ran and not to run it again the second time. 'CLEAN UP ALL OF THE CLASS POINTERS Public Sub Term() On Error Resume Next Static blnRan As Boolean 'The term may run more than once so If blnRan Then Exit Sub 'just exit if it already ran blnRan = True assDebugPrint "Term() " & mcstrModuleName, DebugPrint Set mobjParent = Nothing Set mcolChildren = Nothing End Sub '*- Public Init/Terminate interface Standard Properties and Methods We have discussed the header and the init / term interface. Next we need to discuss standard properties and methods. Obviously we need a way for other classes (or the developer) to get at the data in the header. The ModuleName string, InstanceName, and Name are all properties that just read the constants or variables holding these data and return them as strings. In order to group them in Intellisense I use Name as the first part of the property. 'get the name of this class / module Property Get NameModule() As String NameModule = mcstrModuleName End Property Public Property Get Name() As String Name = mstrName End Property Public Property Get NameInstance() As String NameInstance = mstrInstanceName End Property Public Property Let NameInstance(strName As String) mstrInstanceName = strName End Property And finally we have properties that get the parent object and the children collection. '*+ Parent/Child links interface 'get the pointer to this object's parent Public Property Get Parent() As Object Set Parent = mobjParent End Property 'get the pointer to this object's children Public Property Get Children() As Collection Set Children = mcolChildren End Property '*- Parent/Child links interface The above is all of the standard class interface. It is important to understand that all of the above is in every class, which gives us a very standardized interface to what I will call the framework class interface. These things have very little to do with the functionality of the class, what the class actually does in the framework. All it does is let us set up and tear down the classes in a standard way. That may be the most critical piece however since if a class doesn't terminate it can under certain circumstances hang Access, which can unfortunately even hang the lesser Windows versions such as Windows 98. The three finger salute is not something I want my app forcing on the user! Organizing Class functionality Finally, the sections below are just more organizational stuff. I like to group all like things together. Again this is your call as to whether you want to do this kind of organization. '.------------------------------------------------------------------------- 'THESE FUNCTIONS SINK EVENTS DECLARED WITHEVENTS IN THIS CLASS '*+ Form WithEvent interface '*- Form WithEvent interface 'THESE FUNCTIONS / SUBS ARE USED TO IMPLEMENT CLASS FUNCTIONALITY '*+PRIVATE Class function / sub declaration '*-PRIVATE Class function / sub declaration '*+PUBLIC Class function / sub declaration '*-PUBLIC Class function / sub declaration Summary A framework is going to get complex, with many classes, classes instantiating other classes, setting up child object chains as they initialize and tearing down their child object chains as they terminate. It is critical that we have a system in place to assist us in getting this piece right or we will end up with chaos and applications that don't cleanup correctly. All of the stuff that I have shown above is an attempt to standardize the setup and teardown so that we can always count on doing things the same way, regardless of what class we are instantiating. Consistency goes a long way towards helping us learn this stuff quickly, and getting all the pieces to play together peacefully. John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From deanellis at iprimus.com.au Fri Mar 12 01:40:58 2004 From: deanellis at iprimus.com.au (Dean Ellis) Date: Fri, 12 Mar 2004 18:10:58 +1030 (Cen. Australia Daylight Time) Subject: [AccessD] BEU Update. Will you allow others to have a go? Message-ID: <4051698A.000003.37535@jedel> Hi All, I have just recently installed the BEU modules into my database with a great deal of success. Well done Reuben, Andy, Lembit and Bryan. I did mention that there was a Data Type missing from the dropdown list in the Add Field selection subform. If it's ok with the creators of the BEU modules (And only if it ok) I'd like to open it up to the floor to see if anyone has the time to add this datatype into the code. If I have stepped over the line here, I apologise. I just figured that the four guys that created this are obviously very busy people and there may be some one else out there that could help? Cheers Dean Ellis From accessd at shaw.ca Fri Mar 12 01:43:01 2004 From: accessd at shaw.ca (Jim Lawrence (AccessD)) Date: Thu, 11 Mar 2004 23:43:01 -0800 Subject: [AccessD] Framework Discussion - Class Interface In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Hi John: I was describing the series...so far. Jim -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of John W. Colby Sent: Thursday, March 11, 2004 8:46 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] Framework Discussion - Class Interface LOL. You pick THIS email to call fascinating? That is fascinating! John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Jim Lawrence (AccessD) Sent: Thursday, March 11, 2004 11:14 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] Framework Discussion - Class Interface Fascinating :-) Jim -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of John W. Colby Sent: Thursday, March 11, 2004 6:52 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: [AccessD] Framework Discussion - Class Interface Unfortunately it has come to the point in our discussion where we have to add a little common interface to all of our classes in order to provide us with troubleshooting tools and debugging help. If you remember from Collections, classes and Garbage Collection I discussed some of the issues with classes, particularly those classes which reference forms and controls. Unless we are careful we can create problems unloading the classes, which can cause memory leaks and even cause Access to fail to close. Well its time to address those issues. Please bear with me here, I really don't want to lose anyone over these issues and the required code, but I know it can take a little while to get used to this stuff being in the class headers "clouding the issue". I am going to discuss a Template class which can then be cut and copied to start a new class. All of the necessary interface structures are there; we just add our own class specific stuff to flesh out our new class. You can see all of this code in one place in clsTemplate in the example code database. The Comment Block The first thing we need to do is add a standard header to our classes. I use a section for the typical author, date, copyright etc. This area is used to extensively document this class, with behaviors explained, why we have them, as much documentation as you can put in here so that when you come back next week you can figure out what you were doing. '.============================================================= '.Copyright 2004 Colby Consulting. All rights reserved. '.Phone : '.E-mail : jcolby at colbyconsulting.com '.============================================================= ' DO NOT DELETE THE COMMENTS ABOVE. All other comments in this module ' may be deleted from production code, but lines above must remain. '-------------------------------------------------------------- '.Description : '. '.Written By : John W. Colby '.Date Created : 02/26/2004 ' Rev. History : ' ' Comments : '.------------------------------------------------------------- '. ' ADDITIONAL NOTES: ' '-------------------------------------------------------------- ' ' INSTRUCTIONS: '.------------------------------------------------------------- '. Below that I add standard sections for constants and variables, with some of these already defined. 'THESE CONSTANTS AND VARIABLES ARE USED INTERNALLY TO THE CLASS '*+ Class constant declaration Private Const DebugPrint As Boolean = False Private Const mcstrModuleName As String = "clsFW" '*- Class constants declaration DebugPrint will ultimately allow us to turn on/off printing of debug statements in this specific module. We do this by calling a debugprint function instead of just putting debug.print statements directly in code. We pass in the constant above and the statement prints or doesn't based on the value of the constant passed in. Set it true and all debug statements in the module will print, set it false, they don't print. We have a constant mcstrModuleName that holds a string that is literally the class' module name as seen in the database window, modules tab. Private Const mcstrModuleName As String = "clsFW" Next come class variables: '*+ Class variables declarations 'POINTER TO THE OBJECT THAT CREATED THIS CLASS INSTANCE (THE PARENT OF THE CLASS) Private mobjParent As Object 'THE CHILDREN COLLECTION IS USED TO STORE REFERENCES TO ALL CHILD OBJECTS (CLASSES) THAT NEED TO BE INITIALIZED AND DESTROYED. USUALLY THESE WILL BE FOR CONTROLS SUCH AS THE TAB CONTROL OR THE RECORD SELECTOR, BUT THEY MAY ALSO BE FOR BUSINESS RULES CLASSES, etc. Private mobjChildren As Collection 'THE STRING INSTANCE NAME IS BUILT UP FROM THE MODULE NAME AND A RANDOM INT Public mstrInstanceName As String Public mstrName As String '*- Class variables declarations At this point we also need to discuss some of the process that we use for "automating" the setup and teardown of classes because the entire standard header is used for this purpose. You will add your own variables in here but the stuff you see so far is all framework interface. Classes rarely "standalone" in the framework. There are often classes that use child classes, which may themselves use child classes. A good example is the dclsFrm (the form class) uses dclsCbo (the combo class) which will use dclsDepObj (the dependent object class). Obviously the form class may have dozens of control classes found and instantiated by the control scanner function, with pointers to these control classes stored in a collection. A combo may have one or several objects which "depend on it" to filter its data, thus the combo class has a clsDepObj which stores pointers to classes for the controls that depend on the combo. All of this class using class using class begs for a common interface that is just always there in every class. Thus each class is passed a pointer to its parent object which is then stored in mobjParent. '*+ Class variables declarations 'POINTER TO THE OBJECT THAT CREATED THIS CLASS INSTANCE (THE PARENT OF THE CLASS) Private mobjParent As Object The parent object is the class that instantiated this class. dclsFrm is the parent object to dclsCbo. dclsCbo is the parent object to clsDepObj and so forth. A form passes "Me" to dclsFrm, dclsFrm passes "Me" to dclsCbo, dclsCbo passes "Me" to clsDepObj etc. Me in all three cases means the pointer to the current class. Me in the form means the form's built-in class, me in dclsFrm means a pointer to that dclsFrm instance. By passing a pointer to the parent, any child class can get at any of the parent's properties and methods that it may need. In fact the parent object may have properties and methods added just for the express use of specific child classes that it knows it must deal with. Additionally, each class has a children collection which we name mcolChildren. mcolChildren holds pointers to child objects (classes). 'THE CHILDREN COLLECTION IS USED TO STORE REFERENCES TO ALL CHILD OBJECTS (CLASSES) THAT NEED TO BE INITIALIZED AND DESTROYED. USUALLY THESE WILL BE FOR CONTROLS SUCH AS THE TAB CONTROL OR THE RECORD SELECTOR, BUT THEY MAY ALSO BE FOR BUSINESS RULES CLASSES, etc. Private mobjChildren As Collection The string instance name is built from mcstrModuleName and other info. I am moving to a "lineage name" meaning each class uses it's parent's name plus it's class name. That makes it very easy to tell how any given class "came to be". 'THE STRING INSTANCE NAME IS BUILT UP FROM THE MODULE NAME AND A RANDOM INT Public mstrInstanceName As String And finally a simple name variable Public mstrName As String This variable will usually be the simple name used as the key when the class is saved in its parent's children class. In other words, a class is always saved in its parent's children collection so that the parent can clean up all of its children when the parent class terminates. The name used as the key into this collection is often something simple like a control name. We do this so that we can just index into the class using a readily available piece of information (the control's name) to get the class associated with that object. Functional Constants and Variables I like to organize the header with all the constants grouped together, the variables, then any custom events declared that this class may raise. If a class gets very complicated it may be convenient to group functional pieces together. Bottom line, this is about organization and as long as you make an effort to routinely follow organizational guidelines you will be better off than if you just let madness reign. '.------------------------------------------------------------- 'THESE CONSTANTS AND VARIABLES ARE USED BY THE CLASS TO IMPLEMENT CLASS FUNCTIONALITY '*+ custom constants declaration ' '*- Custom constants declaration '*+ custom variables declarations ' Private WithEvents mfrm As Form 'A form reference passed in '*- custom variables declarations ' 'Define any events this class will raise here '*+ custom events Declarations 'Public Event MyEvent(Status As Integer) '*- custom events declarations Class Init/Term Next I place the class' Initialize sub with all Set statements instantiating any objects that the class dimensions in its header. Initialize is an Event handler, i.e. the class fires this event when the SET statement instantiates the class and the class starts to load. '.------------------------------------------------------------- 'THESE FUNCTIONS / SUBS ARE USED INTERNALLY TO THE CLASS '*+ Private Init/Terminate Interface Private Sub Class_Initialize() On Error GoTo Err_Class_Initialize assDebugPrint "initialize " & mcstrModuleName, DebugPrint Set mcolChildren = New Collection Exit_Class_Initialize: Exit Sub Err_Class_Initialize: MsgBox err.Description, , "Error in Sub clsTemplate.Class_Initialize" Resume Exit_Class_Initialize Resume 0 '.FOR TROUBLESHOOTING End Sub Init() is the first class method usually called, and here we pass in variables to the class that we need in order to get the ball rolling. 'INITIALIZE THE CLASS Public Sub Init(ByRef robjParent As Object) Set mobjParent = robjParent 'IF THE PARENT OBJECT HAS A CHILDREN COLLECTION, PUT MYSELF IN IT assDebugPrint "init " & mstrInstanceName, DebugPrint End Sub The class Terminate event fires when the last pointer to the class is set to nothing. Private Sub Class_Terminate() On Error Resume Next assDebugPrint "Terminate " & mcstrModuleName, DebugPrint Term End Sub Term() is a class method and it is normally called by the cleanup code of the object that created this class instance in the first place. For example, dclsFrm creates a class instance for each control and places a pointer to that class in its Children collection. dclsFrm will then iterate this collection, calling the term method of all the child objects in the children collection when the form is closing, before removing the pointers to the objects from the collection. I also call term from the class' Terminate event. In all cases a class will close automatically when the last pointer to the class is set to nothing. Thus in theory just setting the pointer to the class to nothing should cause terminate to fire, which calls term. This seems like "double work" and in fact it is, however I do so because it is quite possible to set a reference to self for instance, where this class needs to hold itself open regardless of anything else. If I have a pointer to the class in some other class, and I just set that pointer to nothing, then the class still remains open since the last pointer to it still exists, in its own header. However if I call the terminate method, I clean up all pointers including pointer to self, then when I set my external pointer to this class instance to nothing, the class will close properly. This is not a scenario that is used often, but it is used and I just like to play it safe by always calling the term() of a class instance, then set the pointer to the class to nothing, which fires the terminate event, which does call term again. We can do something like setting a static variable in term to tell us that the term() method already ran and not to run it again the second time. 'CLEAN UP ALL OF THE CLASS POINTERS Public Sub Term() On Error Resume Next Static blnRan As Boolean 'The term may run more than once so If blnRan Then Exit Sub 'just exit if it already ran blnRan = True assDebugPrint "Term() " & mcstrModuleName, DebugPrint Set mobjParent = Nothing Set mcolChildren = Nothing End Sub '*- Public Init/Terminate interface Standard Properties and Methods We have discussed the header and the init / term interface. Next we need to discuss standard properties and methods. Obviously we need a way for other classes (or the developer) to get at the data in the header. The ModuleName string, InstanceName, and Name are all properties that just read the constants or variables holding these data and return them as strings. In order to group them in Intellisense I use Name as the first part of the property. 'get the name of this class / module Property Get NameModule() As String NameModule = mcstrModuleName End Property Public Property Get Name() As String Name = mstrName End Property Public Property Get NameInstance() As String NameInstance = mstrInstanceName End Property Public Property Let NameInstance(strName As String) mstrInstanceName = strName End Property And finally we have properties that get the parent object and the children collection. '*+ Parent/Child links interface 'get the pointer to this object's parent Public Property Get Parent() As Object Set Parent = mobjParent End Property 'get the pointer to this object's children Public Property Get Children() As Collection Set Children = mcolChildren End Property '*- Parent/Child links interface The above is all of the standard class interface. It is important to understand that all of the above is in every class, which gives us a very standardized interface to what I will call the framework class interface. These things have very little to do with the functionality of the class, what the class actually does in the framework. All it does is let us set up and tear down the classes in a standard way. That may be the most critical piece however since if a class doesn't terminate it can under certain circumstances hang Access, which can unfortunately even hang the lesser Windows versions such as Windows 98. The three finger salute is not something I want my app forcing on the user! Organizing Class functionality Finally, the sections below are just more organizational stuff. I like to group all like things together. Again this is your call as to whether you want to do this kind of organization. '.------------------------------------------------------------------------- 'THESE FUNCTIONS SINK EVENTS DECLARED WITHEVENTS IN THIS CLASS '*+ Form WithEvent interface '*- Form WithEvent interface 'THESE FUNCTIONS / SUBS ARE USED TO IMPLEMENT CLASS FUNCTIONALITY '*+PRIVATE Class function / sub declaration '*-PRIVATE Class function / sub declaration '*+PUBLIC Class function / sub declaration '*-PUBLIC Class function / sub declaration Summary A framework is going to get complex, with many classes, classes instantiating other classes, setting up child object chains as they initialize and tearing down their child object chains as they terminate. It is critical that we have a system in place to assist us in getting this piece right or we will end up with chaos and applications that don't cleanup correctly. All of the stuff that I have shown above is an attempt to standardize the setup and teardown so that we can always count on doing things the same way, regardless of what class we are instantiating. Consistency goes a long way towards helping us learn this stuff quickly, and getting all the pieces to play together peacefully. John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From rsmethurst at UK.EY.COM Fri Mar 12 03:37:01 2004 From: rsmethurst at UK.EY.COM (rsmethurst at UK.EY.COM) Date: Fri, 12 Mar 2004 09:37:01 +0000 Subject: [AccessD] Re: Printing forms Message-ID: Robert, Thanks for the reply. I'm aware of what forms and reports are used for. However, in this instance I need to print a screen-dump of a form. - I'll elaborate on the scenario. On these forms (and there are many of them - mostly inherited from a previous version of this app) there are graphs, combo boxes, datasheets and drill down sub forms, allowing the user to make multiple (and usually quite detailed) selections on the data. Once those selections are made the users (as per the spec and the previous app versions) would like to print a view of the actual form (i.e their selections and however that has affected the data/graphs etc) - something which by and large works fine except for the items I listed below. (The unbound combo's/radio's etc.) The database (by design - out my hands) contains no reports - only these screen prints. An obviouse work around is to put labels on the offending controls (populate them with the required data) and make them visible only when printing, but this seems crude if it would work....in fact it does - previous versions of this app have shown that. I would just like to know if there is a quicker way to do this. Printing bound controls is fine (in fact even unbound controls with a default value set) - from what I can see, it is the unbound ones without defaults that are problematic. Even if the users/project sponsors were open to reports in this instance (which they are not) I just haven't got the time to go and develop the number of reports that would duplicate what is on these numerous forms (some of which are extremely complex) at this stage of the project. So, in summary, what I am hoping for, is info about the the most feasible way to achieve this, given the time constraints I have mentioned above. (It might be the labels...but I live in hope for a more simple/timely solution) Ryan "Robert L. Stewart" Sent by: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com 11/03/2004 18:15 Please respond to Access Developers discussion and problem solving To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com cc: Subject: [AccessD] Re: Printing forms Ryan, That is because you print reports and not forms. Forms are for data entry. Reports are for printing. Robert At 11:46 AM 3/11/2004 -0600, you wrote: >Date: Thu, 11 Mar 2004 17:42:38 +0000 >From: rsmethurst at UK.EY.COM >Subject: [AccessD] Printing forms >To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > >Message-ID: > >Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" > >Hi All, > >I am having a problem printing forms - specifically it is with combo boxes >and radio buttons (usually within frames) which do not print with the >correct option filled. > >i.e two radio buttons and both will print blank, even though the first one >is selected. >and a combo box with have a selected value, but will not display this >value when the form prints. > >The controls are all set to display for both print and screen, and the >controls are unbound. > >TIA > >Ryan -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com This e-mail and any attachment are confidential and contain proprietary information, some or all of which may be legally privileged. 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A list of members? names is available for inspection at 1 More London Place, London, SE1 2AF, the firm?s principal place of business and its registered office. From adtp at touchtelindia.net Fri Mar 12 05:45:47 2004 From: adtp at touchtelindia.net (A.D.Tejpal) Date: Fri, 12 Mar 2004 17:15:47 +0530 Subject: [AccessD] active design view in mde References: Message-ID: <002101c40827$cdd1ec10$fb1e65cb@winxp> John, Could you kindly give more details as to why you need to do it. There may be a work-around if a temporary form would do. Regards, A.D.Tejpal -------------- ----- Original Message ----- From: Robert Gracie To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Sent: Friday, March 12, 2004 06:11 Subject: RE: [AccessD] active design view in mde If I understand your question,...No you can't. Robert Gracie www.servicexp.com -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of John Eget Sent: Thursday, March 11, 2004 6:18 PM To: AccessD at databaseadvisors.com Subject: [AccessD] active design view in mde Is there anyway to active design view in an application that had been compiled in an mde format? Thanks John From jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com Fri Mar 12 06:19:54 2004 From: jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com (John W. Colby) Date: Fri, 12 Mar 2004 07:19:54 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Framework Discussion - Class Interface In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Oh, thanks! Stay tuned, we are really still just laying the foundation. John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Jim Lawrence (AccessD) Sent: Friday, March 12, 2004 2:43 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] Framework Discussion - Class Interface Hi John: I was describing the series...so far. Jim -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of John W. Colby Sent: Thursday, March 11, 2004 8:46 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] Framework Discussion - Class Interface LOL. You pick THIS email to call fascinating? That is fascinating! John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Jim Lawrence (AccessD) Sent: Thursday, March 11, 2004 11:14 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] Framework Discussion - Class Interface Fascinating :-) Jim -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of John W. Colby Sent: Thursday, March 11, 2004 6:52 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: [AccessD] Framework Discussion - Class Interface Unfortunately it has come to the point in our discussion where we have to add a little common interface to all of our classes in order to provide us with troubleshooting tools and debugging help. If you remember from Collections, classes and Garbage Collection I discussed some of the issues with classes, particularly those classes which reference forms and controls. Unless we are careful we can create problems unloading the classes, which can cause memory leaks and even cause Access to fail to close. Well its time to address those issues. Please bear with me here, I really don't want to lose anyone over these issues and the required code, but I know it can take a little while to get used to this stuff being in the class headers "clouding the issue". I am going to discuss a Template class which can then be cut and copied to start a new class. All of the necessary interface structures are there; we just add our own class specific stuff to flesh out our new class. You can see all of this code in one place in clsTemplate in the example code database. The Comment Block The first thing we need to do is add a standard header to our classes. I use a section for the typical author, date, copyright etc. This area is used to extensively document this class, with behaviors explained, why we have them, as much documentation as you can put in here so that when you come back next week you can figure out what you were doing. '.============================================================= '.Copyright 2004 Colby Consulting. All rights reserved. '.Phone : '.E-mail : jcolby at colbyconsulting.com '.============================================================= ' DO NOT DELETE THE COMMENTS ABOVE. All other comments in this module ' may be deleted from production code, but lines above must remain. '-------------------------------------------------------------- '.Description : '. '.Written By : John W. Colby '.Date Created : 02/26/2004 ' Rev. History : ' ' Comments : '.------------------------------------------------------------- '. ' ADDITIONAL NOTES: ' '-------------------------------------------------------------- ' ' INSTRUCTIONS: '.------------------------------------------------------------- '. Below that I add standard sections for constants and variables, with some of these already defined. 'THESE CONSTANTS AND VARIABLES ARE USED INTERNALLY TO THE CLASS '*+ Class constant declaration Private Const DebugPrint As Boolean = False Private Const mcstrModuleName As String = "clsFW" '*- Class constants declaration DebugPrint will ultimately allow us to turn on/off printing of debug statements in this specific module. We do this by calling a debugprint function instead of just putting debug.print statements directly in code. We pass in the constant above and the statement prints or doesn't based on the value of the constant passed in. Set it true and all debug statements in the module will print, set it false, they don't print. We have a constant mcstrModuleName that holds a string that is literally the class' module name as seen in the database window, modules tab. Private Const mcstrModuleName As String = "clsFW" Next come class variables: '*+ Class variables declarations 'POINTER TO THE OBJECT THAT CREATED THIS CLASS INSTANCE (THE PARENT OF THE CLASS) Private mobjParent As Object 'THE CHILDREN COLLECTION IS USED TO STORE REFERENCES TO ALL CHILD OBJECTS (CLASSES) THAT NEED TO BE INITIALIZED AND DESTROYED. USUALLY THESE WILL BE FOR CONTROLS SUCH AS THE TAB CONTROL OR THE RECORD SELECTOR, BUT THEY MAY ALSO BE FOR BUSINESS RULES CLASSES, etc. Private mobjChildren As Collection 'THE STRING INSTANCE NAME IS BUILT UP FROM THE MODULE NAME AND A RANDOM INT Public mstrInstanceName As String Public mstrName As String '*- Class variables declarations At this point we also need to discuss some of the process that we use for "automating" the setup and teardown of classes because the entire standard header is used for this purpose. You will add your own variables in here but the stuff you see so far is all framework interface. Classes rarely "standalone" in the framework. There are often classes that use child classes, which may themselves use child classes. A good example is the dclsFrm (the form class) uses dclsCbo (the combo class) which will use dclsDepObj (the dependent object class). Obviously the form class may have dozens of control classes found and instantiated by the control scanner function, with pointers to these control classes stored in a collection. A combo may have one or several objects which "depend on it" to filter its data, thus the combo class has a clsDepObj which stores pointers to classes for the controls that depend on the combo. All of this class using class using class begs for a common interface that is just always there in every class. Thus each class is passed a pointer to its parent object which is then stored in mobjParent. '*+ Class variables declarations 'POINTER TO THE OBJECT THAT CREATED THIS CLASS INSTANCE (THE PARENT OF THE CLASS) Private mobjParent As Object The parent object is the class that instantiated this class. dclsFrm is the parent object to dclsCbo. dclsCbo is the parent object to clsDepObj and so forth. A form passes "Me" to dclsFrm, dclsFrm passes "Me" to dclsCbo, dclsCbo passes "Me" to clsDepObj etc. Me in all three cases means the pointer to the current class. Me in the form means the form's built-in class, me in dclsFrm means a pointer to that dclsFrm instance. By passing a pointer to the parent, any child class can get at any of the parent's properties and methods that it may need. In fact the parent object may have properties and methods added just for the express use of specific child classes that it knows it must deal with. Additionally, each class has a children collection which we name mcolChildren. mcolChildren holds pointers to child objects (classes). 'THE CHILDREN COLLECTION IS USED TO STORE REFERENCES TO ALL CHILD OBJECTS (CLASSES) THAT NEED TO BE INITIALIZED AND DESTROYED. USUALLY THESE WILL BE FOR CONTROLS SUCH AS THE TAB CONTROL OR THE RECORD SELECTOR, BUT THEY MAY ALSO BE FOR BUSINESS RULES CLASSES, etc. Private mobjChildren As Collection The string instance name is built from mcstrModuleName and other info. I am moving to a "lineage name" meaning each class uses it's parent's name plus it's class name. That makes it very easy to tell how any given class "came to be". 'THE STRING INSTANCE NAME IS BUILT UP FROM THE MODULE NAME AND A RANDOM INT Public mstrInstanceName As String And finally a simple name variable Public mstrName As String This variable will usually be the simple name used as the key when the class is saved in its parent's children class. In other words, a class is always saved in its parent's children collection so that the parent can clean up all of its children when the parent class terminates. The name used as the key into this collection is often something simple like a control name. We do this so that we can just index into the class using a readily available piece of information (the control's name) to get the class associated with that object. Functional Constants and Variables I like to organize the header with all the constants grouped together, the variables, then any custom events declared that this class may raise. If a class gets very complicated it may be convenient to group functional pieces together. Bottom line, this is about organization and as long as you make an effort to routinely follow organizational guidelines you will be better off than if you just let madness reign. '.------------------------------------------------------------- 'THESE CONSTANTS AND VARIABLES ARE USED BY THE CLASS TO IMPLEMENT CLASS FUNCTIONALITY '*+ custom constants declaration ' '*- Custom constants declaration '*+ custom variables declarations ' Private WithEvents mfrm As Form 'A form reference passed in '*- custom variables declarations ' 'Define any events this class will raise here '*+ custom events Declarations 'Public Event MyEvent(Status As Integer) '*- custom events declarations Class Init/Term Next I place the class' Initialize sub with all Set statements instantiating any objects that the class dimensions in its header. Initialize is an Event handler, i.e. the class fires this event when the SET statement instantiates the class and the class starts to load. '.------------------------------------------------------------- 'THESE FUNCTIONS / SUBS ARE USED INTERNALLY TO THE CLASS '*+ Private Init/Terminate Interface Private Sub Class_Initialize() On Error GoTo Err_Class_Initialize assDebugPrint "initialize " & mcstrModuleName, DebugPrint Set mcolChildren = New Collection Exit_Class_Initialize: Exit Sub Err_Class_Initialize: MsgBox err.Description, , "Error in Sub clsTemplate.Class_Initialize" Resume Exit_Class_Initialize Resume 0 '.FOR TROUBLESHOOTING End Sub Init() is the first class method usually called, and here we pass in variables to the class that we need in order to get the ball rolling. 'INITIALIZE THE CLASS Public Sub Init(ByRef robjParent As Object) Set mobjParent = robjParent 'IF THE PARENT OBJECT HAS A CHILDREN COLLECTION, PUT MYSELF IN IT assDebugPrint "init " & mstrInstanceName, DebugPrint End Sub The class Terminate event fires when the last pointer to the class is set to nothing. Private Sub Class_Terminate() On Error Resume Next assDebugPrint "Terminate " & mcstrModuleName, DebugPrint Term End Sub Term() is a class method and it is normally called by the cleanup code of the object that created this class instance in the first place. For example, dclsFrm creates a class instance for each control and places a pointer to that class in its Children collection. dclsFrm will then iterate this collection, calling the term method of all the child objects in the children collection when the form is closing, before removing the pointers to the objects from the collection. I also call term from the class' Terminate event. In all cases a class will close automatically when the last pointer to the class is set to nothing. Thus in theory just setting the pointer to the class to nothing should cause terminate to fire, which calls term. This seems like "double work" and in fact it is, however I do so because it is quite possible to set a reference to self for instance, where this class needs to hold itself open regardless of anything else. If I have a pointer to the class in some other class, and I just set that pointer to nothing, then the class still remains open since the last pointer to it still exists, in its own header. However if I call the terminate method, I clean up all pointers including pointer to self, then when I set my external pointer to this class instance to nothing, the class will close properly. This is not a scenario that is used often, but it is used and I just like to play it safe by always calling the term() of a class instance, then set the pointer to the class to nothing, which fires the terminate event, which does call term again. We can do something like setting a static variable in term to tell us that the term() method already ran and not to run it again the second time. 'CLEAN UP ALL OF THE CLASS POINTERS Public Sub Term() On Error Resume Next Static blnRan As Boolean 'The term may run more than once so If blnRan Then Exit Sub 'just exit if it already ran blnRan = True assDebugPrint "Term() " & mcstrModuleName, DebugPrint Set mobjParent = Nothing Set mcolChildren = Nothing End Sub '*- Public Init/Terminate interface Standard Properties and Methods We have discussed the header and the init / term interface. Next we need to discuss standard properties and methods. Obviously we need a way for other classes (or the developer) to get at the data in the header. The ModuleName string, InstanceName, and Name are all properties that just read the constants or variables holding these data and return them as strings. In order to group them in Intellisense I use Name as the first part of the property. 'get the name of this class / module Property Get NameModule() As String NameModule = mcstrModuleName End Property Public Property Get Name() As String Name = mstrName End Property Public Property Get NameInstance() As String NameInstance = mstrInstanceName End Property Public Property Let NameInstance(strName As String) mstrInstanceName = strName End Property And finally we have properties that get the parent object and the children collection. '*+ Parent/Child links interface 'get the pointer to this object's parent Public Property Get Parent() As Object Set Parent = mobjParent End Property 'get the pointer to this object's children Public Property Get Children() As Collection Set Children = mcolChildren End Property '*- Parent/Child links interface The above is all of the standard class interface. It is important to understand that all of the above is in every class, which gives us a very standardized interface to what I will call the framework class interface. These things have very little to do with the functionality of the class, what the class actually does in the framework. All it does is let us set up and tear down the classes in a standard way. That may be the most critical piece however since if a class doesn't terminate it can under certain circumstances hang Access, which can unfortunately even hang the lesser Windows versions such as Windows 98. The three finger salute is not something I want my app forcing on the user! Organizing Class functionality Finally, the sections below are just more organizational stuff. I like to group all like things together. Again this is your call as to whether you want to do this kind of organization. '.------------------------------------------------------------------------- 'THESE FUNCTIONS SINK EVENTS DECLARED WITHEVENTS IN THIS CLASS '*+ Form WithEvent interface '*- Form WithEvent interface 'THESE FUNCTIONS / SUBS ARE USED TO IMPLEMENT CLASS FUNCTIONALITY '*+PRIVATE Class function / sub declaration '*-PRIVATE Class function / sub declaration '*+PUBLIC Class function / sub declaration '*-PUBLIC Class function / sub declaration Summary A framework is going to get complex, with many classes, classes instantiating other classes, setting up child object chains as they initialize and tearing down their child object chains as they terminate. It is critical that we have a system in place to assist us in getting this piece right or we will end up with chaos and applications that don't cleanup correctly. All of the stuff that I have shown above is an attempt to standardize the setup and teardown so that we can always count on doing things the same way, regardless of what class we are instantiating. Consistency goes a long way towards helping us learn this stuff quickly, and getting all the pieces to play together peacefully. John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com From jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com Fri Mar 12 06:22:00 2004 From: jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com (John W. Colby) Date: Fri, 12 Mar 2004 07:22:00 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Watching Data Attn:John Colby In-Reply-To: <115380-2200435121147447@M2W058.mail2web.com> Message-ID: Thanks for the link. I went there and scanned up and down but never found what you are referring to. John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of jmhla at earthlink.net Sent: Thursday, March 11, 2004 8:14 PM To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: [AccessD] Watching Data Attn:John Colby John, I was looking thriugh the downloads of the Access Web Ring. http://www.mvps.org/access/resources/downloads.htm There was an A97(?) sample of a history db to watch changes in tables. Will that help you? -------------------------------------------------------------------- mail2web - Check your email from the web at http://mail2web.com/ . -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From Mark.Mitsules at ngc.com Fri Mar 12 07:01:29 2004 From: Mark.Mitsules at ngc.com (Mitsules, Mark S. (Newport News)) Date: Fri, 12 Mar 2004 08:01:29 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Linking to Remote uSys Tables Message-ID: Group, I have a uSys table that I populate with login data. Regardless of the options set, it seems system tables do not show up when using the Link Table wizard. What would be the easiest way to link to a uSys table from a remote database? Mark From R.Griffiths at bury.gov.uk Fri Mar 12 07:07:31 2004 From: R.Griffiths at bury.gov.uk (Griffiths, Richard) Date: Fri, 12 Mar 2004 13:07:31 -0000 Subject: [AccessD] AccessRunTime files Message-ID: Hi Group I am considering using Inno Setup to deploy by Access 97 app. Has anyone a definitive list of files that need to be included in my script, where they should be installed, whether to use regserver (do all dll's need to be registered?)? I know this is asking a lot but...... Many thanks in advance Richard Griffiths From paul.hartland at fsmail.net Fri Mar 12 07:27:57 2004 From: paul.hartland at fsmail.net (paul.hartland at fsmail.net) Date: Fri, 12 Mar 2004 14:27:57 +0100 (CET) Subject: [AccessD] OT - Placing a program in startup Message-ID: <13622965.1079098077268.JavaMail.www@wwinf3001> To all, I know I should know this one, I have just finished an auto emailer program and compiled it, how do I get it to startup when my PC does. I have just come to do this and my minds gone totally blank..... Thanks in advance for you help.... Paul Freeserve AnyTime - HALF PRICE for the first 3 months - Save ?7.50 a month www.freeserve.com/anytime From rl_stewart at highstream.net Fri Mar 12 07:32:40 2004 From: rl_stewart at highstream.net (Robert L. Stewart) Date: Fri, 12 Mar 2004 07:32:40 -0600 Subject: [AccessD] Re: Combo on Continuous Form In-Reply-To: <200403120110.i2C1AQM09558@databaseadvisors.com> Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20040312073227.02ab4cd0@pop3.highstream.net> http://www.rogersaccesslibrary.com/ At 07:10 PM 3/11/2004 -0600, you wrote: >Date: Thu, 11 Mar 2004 20:56:48 +0000 >From: "Mark A Matte" >Subject: RE: [AccessD] Re: Combo on Continuous Form >To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com >Message-ID: >Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed > >What is the URL to Roger's site? > >Thanks, > >Mark From BarbaraRyan at cox.net Fri Mar 12 07:43:10 2004 From: BarbaraRyan at cox.net (Barbara Ryan) Date: Fri, 12 Mar 2004 08:43:10 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Run a report "invisibly" Message-ID: <003f01c40837$f5485bc0$0a00a8c0@cx470148a> Is there any way to run a report invisibly (i.e., "behind the scenes", without printing it) in Access 97? The only modes available are Preview, Normal, and Design. Thanks, Barb From rl_stewart at highstream.net Fri Mar 12 07:42:37 2004 From: rl_stewart at highstream.net (Robert L. Stewart) Date: Fri, 12 Mar 2004 07:42:37 -0600 Subject: [AccessD] Re: question on normalization In-Reply-To: <200403120110.i2C1AQM09558@databaseadvisors.com> Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20040312073404.02ab1c30@pop3.highstream.net> John, I have a table for the US with all that in it. Do you need it? For the normalization freaks (like me), here is a normalized design: tblPostalCode PostalCodeID AutoNumber (PK) PostalCode Text(10) CityID Long Integer RegionID Long Integer Unique index on PostalCode, CityID, RegionID tblCity CityID Autonumber (PK) CityName Text(30) Unique Index on CityName tblRegion RegionID Autonumber (PK) RegionName Text(30) CountryCode Text(2) Unique Index on RegionName, CountryCode tblCountry CountryCode Text(2) (PK) CountryName Text(30) Unique index on CountryName Robert P.S. The ISO standard is actually Division, if I remember correctly for the way I used region here. At 07:10 PM 3/11/2004 -0600, you wrote: >Date: Thu, 11 Mar 2004 16:55:17 -0500 >From: "John W. Colby" >Subject: RE: [AccessD] question on normalization >To: "Access Developers discussion and problem solving" > >Message-ID: >Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" > >David, > >Did you fill in this table with which Zips were in which town etc.? Or is >there a standard db out there somewhere with this stuff? > >John W. Colby >www.ColbyConsulting.com From rl_stewart at highstream.net Fri Mar 12 07:45:12 2004 From: rl_stewart at highstream.net (Robert L. Stewart) Date: Fri, 12 Mar 2004 07:45:12 -0600 Subject: [AccessD] Re: active design view in mde In-Reply-To: <200403120110.i2C1AQM09558@databaseadvisors.com> Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20040312074454.0298a298@pop3.highstream.net> No At 07:10 PM 3/11/2004 -0600, you wrote: >Date: Thu, 11 Mar 2004 18:17:51 -0500 >From: "John Eget" >Subject: [AccessD] active design view in mde >To: >Message-ID: <00bb01c407bf$16f80f00$7dc2f63f at Desktop> >Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" > >Is there anyway to active design view in an application that had been >compiled in an mde format? >Thanks >John From gustav at cactus.dk Fri Mar 12 07:43:56 2004 From: gustav at cactus.dk (Gustav Brock) Date: Fri, 12 Mar 2004 14:43:56 +0100 Subject: [AccessD] AccessRunTime files In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <5220470535.20040312144356@cactus.dk> Hi Richard I have a .stf file from a runtime installation of A97 - I'll mail it to you offline as a starting point. The specifics regarding Win95 and the installer itself may be excluded ... If you succeed with the free Inno Setup, please share. /gustav > I am considering using Inno Setup to deploy by Access 97 app. Has anyone a > definitive list of files that need to be included in my script, where they > should be installed, whether to use regserver (do all dll's need to be > registered?)? I know this is asking a lot but...... From gustav at cactus.dk Fri Mar 12 07:51:33 2004 From: gustav at cactus.dk (Gustav Brock) Date: Fri, 12 Mar 2004 14:51:33 +0100 Subject: [AccessD] Run a report "invisibly" In-Reply-To: <003f01c40837$f5485bc0$0a00a8c0@cx470148a> References: <003f01c40837$f5485bc0$0a00a8c0@cx470148a> Message-ID: <15120927231.20040312145133@cactus.dk> Hi Barbara Is this a Friday joke? Running a report invisibly without printing it?? Well, if you insist, you must have some action code when opening or closing the report; pull that off the report and run it separately. /gustav > Is there any way to run a report invisibly (i.e., "behind the scenes", without printing it) in Access 97? The only modes available are Preview, Normal, and Design. From michael.mattys at adelphia.net Fri Mar 12 07:54:09 2004 From: michael.mattys at adelphia.net (Michael R Mattys) Date: Fri, 12 Mar 2004 08:54:09 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Linking to Remote uSys Tables References: Message-ID: <00f201c40839$7eb9a430$6401a8c0@default> Mark, Does this work? SQL of query: Select * From usysTbl In 'C:\Remote.mdb' ---- Michael R. Mattys (724) 942-3437 Mattys MapLib for Microsoft MapPoint http://www.mattysconsulting.com ----- Original Message ----- From: "Mitsules, Mark S. (Newport News)" To: "'[AccessD]'" Sent: Friday, March 12, 2004 8:01 AM Subject: [AccessD] Linking to Remote uSys Tables > Group, > > I have a uSys table that I populate with login data. Regardless of the > options set, it seems system tables do not show up when using the Link Table > wizard. What would be the easiest way to link to a uSys table from a remote > database? > > > Mark > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From John.Clark at niagaracounty.com Fri Mar 12 07:56:11 2004 From: John.Clark at niagaracounty.com (John Clark) Date: Fri, 12 Mar 2004 08:56:11 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] question on normalization Message-ID: I have done a program, in the past, using the FMS zip code tables. This was updated once a month, and it included Canadian, US, and 'territories'. I don't want to go that large here, because the residences of the people in this database will be limited to 12 towns and 3 cities--roughly 19 zip codes. So I was just wondering if it was OK to have a single field table, or if I should include the zips with the towns. The reason I was seperating the zips from the towns was because some areas have multiple zips--for instance, Niagara Falls has 3 zip codes, not including a separate one for Niagara University--and I thought that might cause a problem. As a sidebar--sort of--why can't the zip itself be a primary key? >>> martyconnelly at shaw.ca 3/11/2004 9:29:46 PM >>> There are three or four good web services like USPS that provide this info, live via a soap call, of course you need an internet connection. You can interrogate these services from Access with just XML and a SOAP envelope over HTTP. You dont need all the soap toolkit jazz unless you want to write the proxy classes. They will also verify that the address is valid too. Such as street name spelling and number range. You can also buy the info via quarterly CD's. John W. Colby wrote: >David, > >Did you fill in this table with which Zips were in which town etc.? Or is >there a standard db out there somewhere with this stuff? > >John W. Colby >www.ColbyConsulting.com > >-----Original Message----- >From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com >[mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of David McAfee >Sent: Thursday, March 11, 2004 3:49 PM >To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' >Subject: RE: [AccessD] question on normalization > > >I our last system, we had a Zipcode table with 5 fields (and 45K+ records): >ZipID (PK Autonumber) >ZipCode (text,5) >City (text, 30) >State (text, 2) >DefaultCity (yes/no) > >I would look up a city based on zipcode entry. One of three results could >happen: > >0 records returned: Prompt to check if zipcode entry (later evolved into >adding new city) >1 record returned: populate city and state onto form > > >>1 record returned: pop up a mini screen with a list box showing all of the >> >> >cities using that zipcode. The default city is selected with the OK button >having focus. > >I would store every part of the address together for a given address. > >In our new system, we have the similar set up as above, but we only keep the >ZipID (ID, for the city, state and Zip) with the address. >The extra joins needed now are a bit of a pita, so I could imagine how much >more it would be to use a junction table containing an CSZid, CityID, Stid & >ZipID. > >I guess it all boils down to what level of normalization do you want to go? >3rd, 4th? > >Oh, btw, are you only dealing with US addresses or INTL addresses too? >Because that will add some twists too ;) >David > > > >-----Original Message----- >From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com >[mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of John Clark >Sent: Thursday, March 11, 2004 12:02 PM >To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com >Subject: [AccessD] question on normalization > > >quick question: > >I have a program that will be populated with a 'regional' group of >people--this meaning that everyone's address will be within this county. >So I am thinking that I can speed up entry, by using a drop-down for zip >codes and filling the town name from that. My question is, would it be >proper to have a separate table for town and another for zip code, even >though zip code would be a single field table? The town table would have >three tables, with one being a link to the Zip Code table, and the Zip >Code table would have a single field--"Zip". > >Thanks > >John W Clark > > >-- >_______________________________________________ >AccessD mailing list >AccessD at databaseadvisors.com >http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd >Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com >-- >_______________________________________________ >AccessD mailing list >AccessD at databaseadvisors.com >http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd >Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > > -- Marty Connelly Victoria, B.C. Canada -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From John.Clark at niagaracounty.com Fri Mar 12 07:56:01 2004 From: John.Clark at niagaracounty.com (John Clark) Date: Fri, 12 Mar 2004 08:56:01 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] question on normalization Message-ID: I would be very interested in seeing a sample David. This may work for me. Thanks! John W Clark >>> DMcAfee at haascnc.com 3/11/2004 5:16:16 PM >>> It was given to me many years ago, and I've just maintained it. I can give you a sample if you need. Our company has purchased "Perfect Address" software which can be called from Access. This is a system that corrects addresses. they put out updates monthly (IIRC). I use it in conjunction with my table. David -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of John W. Colby Sent: Thursday, March 11, 2004 1:55 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] question on normalization David, Did you fill in this table with which Zips were in which town etc.? Or is there a standard db out there somewhere with this stuff? John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of David McAfee Sent: Thursday, March 11, 2004 3:49 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: [AccessD] question on normalization I our last system, we had a Zipcode table with 5 fields (and 45K+ records): ZipID (PK Autonumber) ZipCode (text,5) City (text, 30) State (text, 2) DefaultCity (yes/no) I would look up a city based on zipcode entry. One of three results could happen: 0 records returned: Prompt to check if zipcode entry (later evolved into adding new city) 1 record returned: populate city and state onto form >1 record returned: pop up a mini screen with a list box showing all of the cities using that zipcode. The default city is selected with the OK button having focus. I would store every part of the address together for a given address. In our new system, we have the similar set up as above, but we only keep the ZipID (ID, for the city, state and Zip) with the address. The extra joins needed now are a bit of a pita, so I could imagine how much more it would be to use a junction table containing an CSZid, CityID, Stid & ZipID. I guess it all boils down to what level of normalization do you want to go? 3rd, 4th? Oh, btw, are you only dealing with US addresses or INTL addresses too? Because that will add some twists too ;) David -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of John Clark Sent: Thursday, March 11, 2004 12:02 PM To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: [AccessD] question on normalization quick question: I have a program that will be populated with a 'regional' group of people--this meaning that everyone's address will be within this county. So I am thinking that I can speed up entry, by using a drop-down for zip codes and filling the town name from that. My question is, would it be proper to have a separate table for town and another for zip code, even though zip code would be a single field table? The town table would have three tables, with one being a link to the Zip Code table, and the Zip Code table would have a single field--"Zip". Thanks John W Clark -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From Mark.Mitsules at ngc.com Fri Mar 12 08:00:36 2004 From: Mark.Mitsules at ngc.com (Mitsules, Mark S. (Newport News)) Date: Fri, 12 Mar 2004 09:00:36 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Linking to Remote uSys Tables Message-ID: Well, you know, I figured I'd have to at least wave my magic mojo bag around or something...but, thanks...yes, it really is that simple sometimes. Mark -----Original Message----- From: Michael R Mattys [mailto:michael.mattys at adelphia.net] Sent: Friday, March 12, 2004 8:54 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Linking to Remote uSys Tables Mark, Does this work? SQL of query: Select * From usysTbl In 'C:\Remote.mdb' ---- Michael R. Mattys (724) 942-3437 Mattys MapLib for Microsoft MapPoint http://www.mattysconsulting.com ----- Original Message ----- From: "Mitsules, Mark S. (Newport News)" To: "'[AccessD]'" Sent: Friday, March 12, 2004 8:01 AM Subject: [AccessD] Linking to Remote uSys Tables > Group, > > I have a uSys table that I populate with login data. Regardless of > the options set, it seems system tables do not show up when using the > Link Table > wizard. What would be the easiest way to link to a uSys table from a remote > database? > > > Mark > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From John.Clark at niagaracounty.com Fri Mar 12 07:59:27 2004 From: John.Clark at niagaracounty.com (John Clark) Date: Fri, 12 Mar 2004 08:59:27 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Re: question on normalization Message-ID: This is actually what I was looking at--keeping the zips and the towns seperated. Maybe I'm a closet freak myself--hmmph! John W Clark >>> rl_stewart at highstream.net 3/12/2004 8:42:37 AM >>> John, I have a table for the US with all that in it. Do you need it? For the normalization freaks (like me), here is a normalized design: tblPostalCode PostalCodeID AutoNumber (PK) PostalCode Text(10) CityID Long Integer RegionID Long Integer Unique index on PostalCode, CityID, RegionID tblCity CityID Autonumber (PK) CityName Text(30) Unique Index on CityName tblRegion RegionID Autonumber (PK) RegionName Text(30) CountryCode Text(2) Unique Index on RegionName, CountryCode tblCountry CountryCode Text(2) (PK) CountryName Text(30) Unique index on CountryName Robert P.S. The ISO standard is actually Division, if I remember correctly for the way I used region here. At 07:10 PM 3/11/2004 -0600, you wrote: >Date: Thu, 11 Mar 2004 16:55:17 -0500 >From: "John W. Colby" >Subject: RE: [AccessD] question on normalization >To: "Access Developers discussion and problem solving" > >Message-ID: >Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" > >David, > >Did you fill in this table with which Zips were in which town etc.? Or is >there a standard db out there somewhere with this stuff? > >John W. Colby >www.ColbyConsulting.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From Bryan_Carbonnell at cbc.ca Fri Mar 12 08:10:05 2004 From: Bryan_Carbonnell at cbc.ca (Bryan Carbonnell) Date: Fri, 12 Mar 2004 09:10:05 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Watching Data Attn:John Colby Message-ID: It's a little more than 1/2 way down the page called History. The direct link to a page talkinga bout it is: http://www.mvps.org/access/modules/mdl0021.htm Bryan Carbonnell bryan_carbonnell at cbc.ca >>> jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com 12-Mar-04 7:22:00 AM >>> Thanks for the link. I went there and scanned up and down but never found what you are referring to. John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of jmhla at earthlink.net Sent: Thursday, March 11, 2004 8:14 PM To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: [AccessD] Watching Data Attn:John Colby John, I was looking thriugh the downloads of the Access Web Ring. http://www.mvps.org/access/resources/downloads.htm There was an A97(?) sample of a history db to watch changes in tables. Will that help you? -------------------------------------------------------------------- mail2web - Check your email from the web at http://mail2web.com/ . -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From Lambert.Heenan at AIG.com Fri Mar 12 08:10:07 2004 From: Lambert.Heenan at AIG.com (Heenan, Lambert) Date: Fri, 12 Mar 2004 09:10:07 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Watching Data Attn:John Colby Message-ID: <8B98F8EA48F8BA47A2F24E0D0AF40CF407AD7FA8@xlivmbx12.aig.com> You scanned with the naked eye?!!! Just let the browser find the word "history" on the page and you go direct to this link... http://www.mvps.org/access/downloads/history.zip Lambert > -----Original Message----- > From: John W. Colby [SMTP:jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com] > Sent: Friday, March 12, 2004 7:22 AM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: RE: [AccessD] Watching Data Attn:John Colby > > Thanks for the link. I went there and scanned up and down but never found > what you are referring to. > > John W. Colby > www.ColbyConsulting.com > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of > jmhla at earthlink.net > Sent: Thursday, March 11, 2004 8:14 PM > To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com > Subject: [AccessD] Watching Data Attn:John Colby > > > John, > > I was looking thriugh the downloads of the Access Web Ring. > http://www.mvps.org/access/resources/downloads.htm > > There was an A97(?) sample of a history db to watch changes in tables. > Will > that help you? > > > > > -------------------------------------------------------------------- > mail2web - Check your email from the web at > http://mail2web.com/ . > > > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From serbach at new.rr.com Fri Mar 12 08:14:44 2004 From: serbach at new.rr.com (Steven W. Erbach) Date: Fri, 12 Mar 2004 08:14:44 -0600 Subject: [AccessD] Framework Discussion - Class Interface Message-ID: <20040312081444.1478249746.serbach@new.rr.com> John, I'm glad I managed to catch the trolley! Regards, Steve Erbach Scientific Marketing Neenah, WI 920-969-0504 Security and Virus information: http://www.swerbach.com/security/virusinfo.htm From Bryan_Carbonnell at cbc.ca Fri Mar 12 08:13:36 2004 From: Bryan_Carbonnell at cbc.ca (Bryan Carbonnell) Date: Fri, 12 Mar 2004 09:13:36 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Linking to Remote uSys Tables Message-ID: Mark, IF you have Show System Object on (Tools|Options... | View Tab | Check beside System Objects) then in the Link Tables Dialog your uSys table will should show up. >From there you can link it. Bryan Carbonnell bryan_carbonnell at cbc.ca >>> Mark.Mitsules at ngc.com 12-Mar-04 8:01:29 AM >>> Group, I have a uSys table that I populate with login data. Regardless of the options set, it seems system tables do not show up when using the Link Table wizard. What would be the easiest way to link to a uSys table from a remote database? From Mark.Mitsules at ngc.com Fri Mar 12 08:14:27 2004 From: Mark.Mitsules at ngc.com (Mitsules, Mark S. (Newport News)) Date: Fri, 12 Mar 2004 09:14:27 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] OT - Placing a program in startup Message-ID: Placing a shortcut to the .mdb into the Startup folder should work. Mark -----Original Message----- From: paul.hartland at fsmail.net [mailto:paul.hartland at fsmail.net] Sent: Friday, March 12, 2004 8:28 AM To: accessd Subject: [AccessD] OT - Placing a program in startup To all, I know I should know this one, I have just finished an auto emailer program and compiled it, how do I get it to startup when my PC does. I have just come to do this and my minds gone totally blank..... Thanks in advance for you help.... Paul Freeserve AnyTime - HALF PRICE for the first 3 months - Save ?7.50 a month www.freeserve.com/anytime -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From Mark.Mitsules at ngc.com Fri Mar 12 08:30:16 2004 From: Mark.Mitsules at ngc.com (Mitsules, Mark S. (Newport News)) Date: Fri, 12 Mar 2004 09:30:16 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Linking to Remote uSys Tables Message-ID: Have you verified that Bryan? I had both the show hidden objects and show system objects options checked in both my local and remote dbs, yet the uSys table did not show up when using the Link Table wizard:( Mark -----Original Message----- From: Bryan Carbonnell [mailto:Bryan_Carbonnell at cbc.ca] Sent: Friday, March 12, 2004 9:14 AM To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: Re: [AccessD] Linking to Remote uSys Tables Mark, IF you have Show System Object on (Tools|Options... | View Tab | Check beside System Objects) then in the Link Tables Dialog your uSys table will should show up. >From there you can link it. Bryan Carbonnell bryan_carbonnell at cbc.ca >>> Mark.Mitsules at ngc.com 12-Mar-04 8:01:29 AM >>> Group, I have a uSys table that I populate with login data. Regardless of the options set, it seems system tables do not show up when using the Link Table wizard. What would be the easiest way to link to a uSys table from a remote database? -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From Bryan_Carbonnell at cbc.ca Fri Mar 12 08:38:25 2004 From: Bryan_Carbonnell at cbc.ca (Bryan Carbonnell) Date: Fri, 12 Mar 2004 09:38:25 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Linking to Remote uSys Tables Message-ID: Yep. I just did it with A2K. Bryan >>> Mark.Mitsules at ngc.com 12-Mar-04 9:30:16 AM >>> Have you verified that Bryan? I had both the show hidden objects and show system objects options checked in both my local and remote dbs, yet the uSys table did not show up when using the Link Table wizard:( Mark -----Original Message----- From: Bryan Carbonnell [mailto:Bryan_Carbonnell at cbc.ca] Sent: Friday, March 12, 2004 9:14 AM To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: Re: [AccessD] Linking to Remote uSys Tables Mark, IF you have Show System Object on (Tools|Options... | View Tab | Check beside System Objects) then in the Link Tables Dialog your uSys table will should show up. >From there you can link it. Bryan Carbonnell bryan_carbonnell at cbc.ca >>> Mark.Mitsules at ngc.com 12-Mar-04 8:01:29 AM >>> Group, I have a uSys table that I populate with login data. Regardless of the options set, it seems system tables do not show up when using the Link Table wizard. What would be the easiest way to link to a uSys table from a remote database? -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From Bryan_Carbonnell at cbc.ca Fri Mar 12 08:45:19 2004 From: Bryan_Carbonnell at cbc.ca (Bryan Carbonnell) Date: Fri, 12 Mar 2004 09:45:19 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Linking to Remote uSys Tables Message-ID: Something just struck me. You wrote: > using the Link Table wizard:( You mean the one under File|Get External Data... | Link Tables... and not Tools|Database Utilities|Linked Table Manager right? If you are talking about the second one, you need to link the table before you can manage it. Bryan Carbonnell bryan_carbonnell at cbc.ca >>> Mark.Mitsules at ngc.com 12-Mar-04 9:30:16 AM >>> Have you verified that Bryan? I had both the show hidden objects and show system objects options checked in both my local and remote dbs, yet the uSys table did not show up when using the Link Table wizard:( From reuben at gfconsultants.com Fri Mar 12 08:44:17 2004 From: reuben at gfconsultants.com (Reuben Cummings) Date: Fri, 12 Mar 2004 09:44:17 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] BEU Update. Will you allow others to have a go? In-Reply-To: <4051698A.000003.37535@jedel> Message-ID: I'm willing to look at it. Do you have any specifics on adding a hyperlink via code, Dean? (It was a hyperlink you asked about?) Reuben Cummings GFC, LLC phone: 812.523.1017 email: reuben at gfconsultants.com > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Dean Ellis > Sent: Friday, March 12, 2004 2:41 AM > To: AccessD > Subject: [AccessD] BEU Update. Will you allow others to have a go? > > > Hi All, I have just recently installed the BEU modules into my > database with a great > deal of success. Well done Reuben, Andy, Lembit and Bryan. I did mention > that there was a Data Type missing from the dropdown list in the Add Field > selection subform. If it's ok with the creators of the BEU > modules (And only if it ok) I'd like > to open it up to the floor to see if anyone has the time to add this > datatype into the code. If I have stepped over the line here, I > apologise. I > just figured that the four guys that created this are obviously very busy > people and there may be some one else out there that could help? > Cheers Dean Ellis > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > From ssharkins at bellsouth.net Fri Mar 12 08:55:22 2004 From: ssharkins at bellsouth.net (Susan Harkins) Date: Fri, 12 Mar 2004 09:55:22 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] question on normalization In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <20040312145518.IHMK9700.imf21aec.mail.bellsouth.net@SUSANONE> As a sidebar--sort of--why can't the zip itself be a primary key? ========We're told that ZIP codes aren't unique -- most are, but there those few... I've not encountered it myself, but that's what we're told. ;) Susan H. From Mark.Mitsules at ngc.com Fri Mar 12 08:58:14 2004 From: Mark.Mitsules at ngc.com (Mitsules, Mark S. (Newport News)) Date: Fri, 12 Mar 2004 09:58:14 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Linking to Remote uSys Tables Message-ID: Neither actually...I was referring to being in the Table view of the Database Window clicking the New button, then Link Table. Maybe that explains the difference. Mark -----Original Message----- From: Bryan Carbonnell [mailto:Bryan_Carbonnell at cbc.ca] Sent: Friday, March 12, 2004 9:45 AM To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: RE: [AccessD] Linking to Remote uSys Tables Something just struck me. You wrote: > using the Link Table wizard:( You mean the one under File|Get External Data... | Link Tables... and not Tools|Database Utilities|Linked Table Manager right? If you are talking about the second one, you need to link the table before you can manage it. Bryan Carbonnell bryan_carbonnell at cbc.ca >>> Mark.Mitsules at ngc.com 12-Mar-04 9:30:16 AM >>> Have you verified that Bryan? I had both the show hidden objects and show system objects options checked in both my local and remote dbs, yet the uSys table did not show up when using the Link Table wizard:( -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From HollisVJ at pgdp.usec.com Fri Mar 12 09:00:34 2004 From: HollisVJ at pgdp.usec.com (Hollis,Virginia) Date: Fri, 12 Mar 2004 09:00:34 -0600 Subject: [AccessD] Vendor Table Message-ID: <618EB4D6DDCDD3119B0A00508B6FD37A0CB0D2D8@cntexchange.pgdp.usec.com> I am starting a new database - that seems fairly standard, but it is my first time with this type.... This database is to track vendor information & requests. I know I need a table with vendor information, one for the buyer, & one for contacts. The problem is I can't think of how to tie them all together, especially the buyer & requestor with the vendor. The buyer completes the form with all the vendor information, regular fields - name, address, terms. I guess my question is what do I put in a Main? table to tie all the information together? It is mostly just a form completed by the buyer and sent to another department for entry into the suppliers database. But the 2nd department wants to track the requests (where I come in). Virginia From John.Clark at niagaracounty.com Fri Mar 12 09:03:04 2004 From: John.Clark at niagaracounty.com (John Clark) Date: Fri, 12 Mar 2004 10:03:04 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] question on normalization Message-ID: But, in my case, it would be OK then? I will not have an issue with them being unique. JW Clark >>> ssharkins at bellsouth.net 3/12/2004 9:55:22 AM >>> As a sidebar--sort of--why can't the zip itself be a primary key? ========We're told that ZIP codes aren't unique -- most are, but there those few... I've not encountered it myself, but that's what we're told. ;) Susan H. -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From Bryan_Carbonnell at cbc.ca Fri Mar 12 09:09:20 2004 From: Bryan_Carbonnell at cbc.ca (Bryan Carbonnell) Date: Fri, 12 Mar 2004 10:09:20 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Linking to Remote uSys Tables Message-ID: Didn't know you could do that. Thanks!:) However that being said, takes me to the same spot as File|Get External Data... | Link Tables... does. I don't know why it's not working for you. I'm out of ideas. :( Bryan Carbonnell bryan_carbonnell at cbc.ca >>> Mark.Mitsules at ngc.com 12-Mar-04 9:58:14 AM >>> Neither actually...I was referring to being in the Table view of the Database Window clicking the New button, then Link Table. Maybe that explains the difference. Mark -----Original Message----- From: Bryan Carbonnell [mailto:Bryan_Carbonnell at cbc.ca] Sent: Friday, March 12, 2004 9:45 AM To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: RE: [AccessD] Linking to Remote uSys Tables Something just struck me. You wrote: > using the Link Table wizard:( You mean the one under File|Get External Data... | Link Tables... and not Tools|Database Utilities|Linked Table Manager right? If you are talking about the second one, you need to link the table before you can manage it. Bryan Carbonnell bryan_carbonnell at cbc.ca >>> Mark.Mitsules at ngc.com 12-Mar-04 9:30:16 AM >>> Have you verified that Bryan? I had both the show hidden objects and show system objects options checked in both my local and remote dbs, yet the uSys table did not show up when using the Link Table wizard:( -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From ssharkins at bellsouth.net Fri Mar 12 09:21:32 2004 From: ssharkins at bellsouth.net (Susan Harkins) Date: Fri, 12 Mar 2004 10:21:32 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] question on normalization In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <20040312152129.JGJM12770.imf19aec.mail.bellsouth.net@SUSANONE> I would think so, if that's what you want to do, but don't blame me if you run into trouble! ;) I don't believe you'll find duplicates in the same state. Susan H. But, in my case, it would be OK then? I will not have an issue with them being unique. JW Clark >>> ssharkins at bellsouth.net 3/12/2004 9:55:22 AM >>> As a sidebar--sort of--why can't the zip itself be a primary key? ========We're told that ZIP codes aren't unique -- most are, but there those few... I've not encountered it myself, but that's what we're told. ;) Susan H. -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From BarbaraRyan at cox.net Fri Mar 12 09:41:58 2004 From: BarbaraRyan at cox.net (Barbara Ryan) Date: Fri, 12 Mar 2004 10:41:58 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Run a report "invisibly" References: <003f01c40837$f5485bc0$0a00a8c0@cx470148a> <15120927231.20040312145133@cactus.dk> Message-ID: <007b01c40848$8e3c4ac0$0a00a8c0@cx470148a> Hi, Gustav... I wish it was a joke!!! The report is pretty complex, with 12 subreports. There are hundreds of calculations performed (in the report as well as all the subreports)--- subtotals of 2 or more subreports used in calculations in other subreports, etc. The report also outputs data to a spreadsheet. The data in the report is (almost) exactly what I need to create an export file requested by the client. However, I need to have a separate interface for the export file function. I would like to execute the report "invisibly" --- to get the data I need --- and then just create my export file. Is it possible to "turn off" the default printer (so the report won't print), execute the report in Normal mode, then turn the default printer back on? Any other suggestions? Thanks, Barb ----- Original Message ----- From: "Gustav Brock" To: "Access Developers discussion and problem solving" Sent: Friday, March 12, 2004 8:51 AM Subject: Re: [AccessD] Run a report "invisibly" > Hi Barbara > > Is this a Friday joke? > Running a report invisibly without printing it?? > > Well, if you insist, you must have some action code when opening or > closing the report; pull that off the report and run it separately. > > /gustav > > > > Is there any way to run a report invisibly (i.e., "behind the scenes", without printing it) in Access 97? The only modes available are Preview, Normal, and Design. > > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From artful at rogers.com Fri Mar 12 12:48:38 2004 From: artful at rogers.com (Arthur Fuller) Date: Fri, 12 Mar 2004 10:48:38 -0800 Subject: [AccessD] DependentObjects class In-Reply-To: <4050883A.7227.1C1E18E@localhost> Message-ID: <000001c40862$a7396430$6501a8c0@rock> Further, in the O-O courses that I have taken this kind of thing is specifically discouraged because it tightly couples the controls. Instead, they recommend creating creating a class that holds both controls as attributes of the class. This may or may not work in VBA, of course. In addition, in many cases where I have seen this sort of "one combo depends on another's value" thing done, it is IMO frequently the result of bad design at the database level. For example, a table contains say State and City fields, populated from the tables States and Cities -- and then the UI filters the Cities field on the basis of the State selection: bad design, IMO. There's no need to store the State, since we have the city, and New York exists in only one state. On the other hand, take the case of ProductCategories and Products. At the database level, IMO, the same pertains: do not store the category since it can be inferred from the product. However, it may well be useful for the user to select a category and then a product from said category. So in that case we're back to the custom class that embeds both combos. I don't know if that approach can work in Access. I leave that to JC to determine. But I do believe that designing classes that know specifics about other classes (i.e. worst of all is that they must know the name of the other class's instance) is fundamentally incorrect. Just my $.02 Arthur -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Stuart McLachlan Sent: Wednesday, March 10, 2004 9:40 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problemsolving Subject: Re: [AccessD] DependentObjects class On 11 Mar 2004 at 0:11, John W. Colby wrote: > I am working on a dependentobjects class, i.e. a class with a > collection which holds objects (classes) where the control or form is > dependent on the current control. Combo A changes. Combo B uses > Combo A to filter itself. Combo B is "dependent" on combo A and must > be requeried whenever Combo A changes. > > This is a case where I programmed a solution working but it was ugly. > How would you solve this problem? > I doubt if I would do it with a class. It's not *that* common a requirement and there are so many different ways that you can end up with circular references, CtlA - CtlB - CtlC - CtlD...... CtlX - CtlC etc that trying to allow for them would end up with such code bolat that the whole thing became inefficient. -- Lexacorp Ltd http://www.lexacorp.com.pg Information Technology Consultancy, Software Development,System Support. -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From gustav at cactus.dk Fri Mar 12 09:59:17 2004 From: gustav at cactus.dk (Gustav Brock) Date: Fri, 12 Mar 2004 16:59:17 +0100 Subject: [AccessD] Run a report "invisibly" In-Reply-To: <007b01c40848$8e3c4ac0$0a00a8c0@cx470148a> References: <003f01c40837$f5485bc0$0a00a8c0@cx470148a> <15120927231.20040312145133@cactus.dk> <007b01c40848$8e3c4ac0$0a00a8c0@cx470148a> Message-ID: <16028591872.20040312165917@cactus.dk> Hi Barbara You would still get the "Now printing report ..." message box. I would bite the bullet and work with the queries and subqueries for the export. That would probably run way faster too. /gustav > Hi, Gustav... > I wish it was a joke!!! > The report is pretty complex, with 12 subreports. There are hundreds of > calculations performed (in the report as well as all the subreports)--- > subtotals of 2 or more subreports used in calculations in other subreports, > etc. The report also outputs data to a spreadsheet. > The data in the report is (almost) exactly what I need to create an export > file requested by the client. However, I need to have a separate interface > for the export file function. I would like to execute the report > "invisibly" --- to get the data I need --- and then just create my export > file. > Is it possible to "turn off" the default printer (so the report won't > print), execute the report in Normal mode, then turn the default printer > back on? > Any other suggestions? > Thanks, > Barb > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Gustav Brock" > To: "Access Developers discussion and problem solving" > > Sent: Friday, March 12, 2004 8:51 AM > Subject: Re: [AccessD] Run a report "invisibly" >> Hi Barbara >> >> Is this a Friday joke? >> Running a report invisibly without printing it?? >> >> Well, if you insist, you must have some action code when opening or >> closing the report; pull that off the report and run it separately. >> >> /gustav >> >> >> > Is there any way to run a report invisibly (i.e., "behind the scenes", > without printing it) in Access 97? The only modes available are Preview, > Normal, and Design. From ssharkins at bellsouth.net Fri Mar 12 10:05:04 2004 From: ssharkins at bellsouth.net (Susan Harkins) Date: Fri, 12 Mar 2004 11:05:04 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Run a report "invisibly" In-Reply-To: <16028591872.20040312165917@cactus.dk> Message-ID: <20040312160500.OKVY15240.imf17aec.mail.bellsouth.net@SUSANONE> I went looking for a Print to File setting in VBA and found nothing -- surely there is one? Susan H. Hi Barbara You would still get the "Now printing report ..." message box. I would bite the bullet and work with the queries and subqueries for the export. That would probably run way faster too. /gustav > Hi, Gustav... > I wish it was a joke!!! > The report is pretty complex, with 12 subreports. There are hundreds > of calculations performed (in the report as well as all the > subreports)--- subtotals of 2 or more subreports used in calculations > in other subreports, etc. The report also outputs data to a spreadsheet. > The data in the report is (almost) exactly what I need to create an > export file requested by the client. However, I need to have a > separate interface for the export file function. I would like to > execute the report "invisibly" --- to get the data I need --- and then > just create my export file. > Is it possible to "turn off" the default printer (so the report won't > print), execute the report in Normal mode, then turn the default > printer back on? > Any other suggestions? > Thanks, > Barb > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Gustav Brock" > To: "Access Developers discussion and problem solving" > > Sent: Friday, March 12, 2004 8:51 AM > Subject: Re: [AccessD] Run a report "invisibly" >> Hi Barbara >> >> Is this a Friday joke? >> Running a report invisibly without printing it?? >> >> Well, if you insist, you must have some action code when opening or >> closing the report; pull that off the report and run it separately. >> >> /gustav >> >> >> > Is there any way to run a report invisibly (i.e., "behind the scenes", > without printing it) in Access 97? The only modes available are Preview, > Normal, and Design. -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From jmhla at earthlink.net Fri Mar 12 10:06:08 2004 From: jmhla at earthlink.net (Joe Hecht) Date: Fri, 12 Mar 2004 08:06:08 -0800 Subject: [AccessD] Watching Data Attn:John Colby In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <000001c4084b$f1d3de60$6501a8c0@delllaptop> It is called History. The description is pasted below. It opens a download box not a link. I do not know how to send better explination History >From Gary Labowitz. A Sample database explaining how to track record changes in one or more table. Notes JOE HECHT LOS ANGELES CA -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of John W. Colby Sent: Friday, March 12, 2004 4:22 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] Watching Data Attn:John Colby Thanks for the link. I went there and scanned up and down but never found what you are referring to. John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of jmhla at earthlink.net Sent: Thursday, March 11, 2004 8:14 PM To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: [AccessD] Watching Data Attn:John Colby John, I was looking thriugh the downloads of the Access Web Ring. http://www.mvps.org/access/resources/downloads.htm There was an A97(?) sample of a history db to watch changes in tables. Will that help you? -------------------------------------------------------------------- mail2web - Check your email from the web at http://mail2web.com/ . -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From gustav at cactus.dk Fri Mar 12 10:15:41 2004 From: gustav at cactus.dk (Gustav Brock) Date: Fri, 12 Mar 2004 17:15:41 +0100 Subject: [AccessD] Run a report "invisibly" In-Reply-To: <20040312160500.OKVY15240.imf17aec.mail.bellsouth.net@SUSANONE> References: <20040312160500.OKVY15240.imf17aec.mail.bellsouth.net@SUSANONE> Message-ID: <14229575537.20040312171541@cactus.dk> Hi Susan > I went looking for a Print to File setting in VBA and found nothing -- > surely there is one? Yes but that is for the printer (object) ... not a nice thing to manipulate for this task only. /gustav > You would still get the "Now printing report ..." message box. > I would bite the bullet and work with the queries and subqueries for the > export. That would probably run way faster too. > /gustav >> Hi, Gustav... >> I wish it was a joke!!! >> The report is pretty complex, with 12 subreports. There are hundreds >> of calculations performed (in the report as well as all the >> subreports)--- subtotals of 2 or more subreports used in calculations >> in other subreports, etc. The report also outputs data to a spreadsheet. >> The data in the report is (almost) exactly what I need to create an >> export file requested by the client. However, I need to have a >> separate interface for the export file function. I would like to >> execute the report "invisibly" --- to get the data I need --- and then >> just create my export file. >> Is it possible to "turn off" the default printer (so the report won't >> print), execute the report in Normal mode, then turn the default >> printer back on? >>> Hi Barbara >>> >>> Is this a Friday joke? >>> Running a report invisibly without printing it?? >>> >>> Well, if you insist, you must have some action code when opening or >>> closing the report; pull that off the report and run it separately. >>> >>> /gustav >>> >>> >>> > Is there any way to run a report invisibly (i.e., "behind the scenes", >> without printing it) in Access 97? The only modes available are Preview, >> Normal, and Design. From DWUTKA at marlow.com Fri Mar 12 10:17:17 2004 From: DWUTKA at marlow.com (DWUTKA at marlow.com) Date: Fri, 12 Mar 2004 10:17:17 -0600 Subject: [AccessD] Vendor Table Message-ID: <2F8793082E00D4119A1700B0D0216BF802227963@main2.marlow.com> Sounds like a PO system. The PurchaseOrder table would be the 'tie in'. You would have a PO Number, then a buyerID, VendorID, and your items. Depends on how complex you want to make it, you should probably have a PO Line Items table. Drew -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Hollis,Virginia Sent: Friday, March 12, 2004 9:01 AM To: 'accessd at databaseadvisors.com' Subject: [AccessD] Vendor Table I am starting a new database - that seems fairly standard, but it is my first time with this type.... This database is to track vendor information & requests. I know I need a table with vendor information, one for the buyer, & one for contacts. The problem is I can't think of how to tie them all together, especially the buyer & requestor with the vendor. The buyer completes the form with all the vendor information, regular fields - name, address, terms. I guess my question is what do I put in a Main? table to tie all the information together? It is mostly just a form completed by the buyer and sent to another department for entry into the suppliers database. But the 2nd department wants to track the requests (where I come in). Virginia -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From BBarabash at TappeConstruction.com Fri Mar 12 10:28:57 2004 From: BBarabash at TappeConstruction.com (Brett Barabash) Date: Fri, 12 Mar 2004 10:28:57 -0600 Subject: [AccessD] Run a report "invisibly" Message-ID: <426071E0B0A6D311B3C0006008B0AB23AFE3F2@TAPPEEXCH01> How about running the report in preview mode? You could use Application.Echo False to disable screen updating (with extreme caution to ensure that it gets turned back on when you are done). Note: By default, only the first couple of pages page format when you preview a report. However, if you bind a textbox to the =[Pages] property, it forces the entire report to execute. After all this is done, you could use DoCmd.Close acReport, to close it. > Hi, Gustav... > I wish it was a joke!!! > The report is pretty complex, with 12 subreports. There are hundreds of > calculations performed (in the report as well as all the subreports)--- > subtotals of 2 or more subreports used in calculations in other subreports, > etc. The report also outputs data to a spreadsheet. > The data in the report is (almost) exactly what I need to create an export > file requested by the client. However, I need to have a separate interface > for the export file function. I would like to execute the report > "invisibly" --- to get the data I need --- and then just create my export > file. > Is it possible to "turn off" the default printer (so the report won't > print), execute the report in Normal mode, then turn the default printer > back on? > Any other suggestions? > Thanks, > Barb > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Gustav Brock" > To: "Access Developers discussion and problem solving" > > Sent: Friday, March 12, 2004 8:51 AM > Subject: Re: [AccessD] Run a report "invisibly" >> Hi Barbara >> >> Is this a Friday joke? >> Running a report invisibly without printing it?? >> >> Well, if you insist, you must have some action code when opening or >> closing the report; pull that off the report and run it separately. >> >> /gustav >> >> >> > Is there any way to run a report invisibly (i.e., "behind the scenes", > without printing it) in Access 97? The only modes available are Preview, > Normal, and Design. -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- The information in this email may contain confidential information that is legally privileged. The information is only for the use of the intended recipient(s) named above. If you are not the intended recipient(s), you are hereby notified that any disclosure, copying, distribution, or the taking of any action in regard to the content of this fax is strictly prohibited. If transmission is incorrect, unclear, or incomplete, please notify the sender immediately. The authorized recipient(s) of this information is/are prohibited from disclosing this information to any other party and is/are required to destroy the information after its stated need has been fulfilled. Any views expressed in this message are those of the individual sender, except where the sender specifies and with authority, states them to be the views of Tappe Construction Co. This footer also confirms that this email message has been scanned for the presence of computer viruses.Scanning of this message and addition of this footer is performed by SurfControl E-mail Filter software in conjunction with virus detection software. From cfoust at infostatsystems.com Fri Mar 12 10:33:49 2004 From: cfoust at infostatsystems.com (Charlotte Foust) Date: Fri, 12 Mar 2004 08:33:49 -0800 Subject: [AccessD] DependentObjects class Message-ID: Unfortunately, some city names get recycled among states, Arthur. Witness Kansas City, Kansas, and Kansas City, Missouri. There is no guarantee that the city defines the state. The same is true of counties and other location names. There certainly are a few unique city names, but that isn't enough to form the basis of a design. Charlotte Foust -----Original Message----- From: Arthur Fuller [mailto:artful at rogers.com] Sent: Friday, March 12, 2004 10:49 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: [AccessD] DependentObjects class Further, in the O-O courses that I have taken this kind of thing is specifically discouraged because it tightly couples the controls. Instead, they recommend creating creating a class that holds both controls as attributes of the class. This may or may not work in VBA, of course. In addition, in many cases where I have seen this sort of "one combo depends on another's value" thing done, it is IMO frequently the result of bad design at the database level. For example, a table contains say State and City fields, populated from the tables States and Cities -- and then the UI filters the Cities field on the basis of the State selection: bad design, IMO. There's no need to store the State, since we have the city, and New York exists in only one state. On the other hand, take the case of ProductCategories and Products. At the database level, IMO, the same pertains: do not store the category since it can be inferred from the product. However, it may well be useful for the user to select a category and then a product from said category. So in that case we're back to the custom class that embeds both combos. I don't know if that approach can work in Access. I leave that to JC to determine. But I do believe that designing classes that know specifics about other classes (i.e. worst of all is that they must know the name of the other class's instance) is fundamentally incorrect. Just my $.02 Arthur -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Stuart McLachlan Sent: Wednesday, March 10, 2004 9:40 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problemsolving Subject: Re: [AccessD] DependentObjects class On 11 Mar 2004 at 0:11, John W. Colby wrote: > I am working on a dependentobjects class, i.e. a class with a > collection which holds objects (classes) where the control or form is > dependent on the current control. Combo A changes. Combo B uses > Combo A to filter itself. Combo B is "dependent" on combo A and must > be requeried whenever Combo A changes. > > This is a case where I programmed a solution working but it was ugly. > How would you solve this problem? > I doubt if I would do it with a class. It's not *that* common a requirement and there are so many different ways that you can end up with circular references, CtlA - CtlB - CtlC - CtlD...... CtlX - CtlC etc that trying to allow for them would end up with such code bolat that the whole thing became inefficient. -- Lexacorp Ltd http://www.lexacorp.com.pg Information Technology Consultancy, Software Development,System Support. -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From cfoust at infostatsystems.com Fri Mar 12 10:40:26 2004 From: cfoust at infostatsystems.com (Charlotte Foust) Date: Fri, 12 Mar 2004 08:40:26 -0800 Subject: [AccessD] question on normalization Message-ID: Unfortunately, while zip codes are supposed to be unique, they may be shared among several small towns or a town may have multiple zip codes. Some buildings even have unique zip codes, but generally zip codes belong to post offices. I would say they were not a good candidate for a primary key in dealing with addresses. I've worked with postal databases and seen some of the "duplicate" zips, where several small towns share a post office and a zip code. A further complication is the +four extension. Charlotte Foust -----Original Message----- From: John Clark [mailto:John.Clark at niagaracounty.com] Sent: Friday, March 12, 2004 7:03 AM To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: RE: [AccessD] question on normalization But, in my case, it would be OK then? I will not have an issue with them being unique. JW Clark >>> ssharkins at bellsouth.net 3/12/2004 9:55:22 AM >>> As a sidebar--sort of--why can't the zip itself be a primary key? ========We're told that ZIP codes aren't unique -- most are, but there those few... I've not encountered it myself, but that's what we're told. ;) Susan H. -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From Bryan_Carbonnell at cbc.ca Fri Mar 12 10:45:08 2004 From: Bryan_Carbonnell at cbc.ca (Bryan Carbonnell) Date: Fri, 12 Mar 2004 11:45:08 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] DependentObjects class Message-ID: > In addition, in many cases where I have seen this sort of "one combo > depends on another's value" thing done, it is IMO frequently the result > of bad design at the database level. For example, a table contains say > State and City fields, populated from the tables States and Cities -- > and then the UI filters the Cities field on the basis of the State > selection: bad design, IMO. There's no need to store the State, since we > have the city, and New York exists in only one state. Storing the State is not required if you know the city?? IMO that is rubbish!!!! How do you differentiate between the 7 New Yorks in the US if you don't store the state? New York,NY New York,TX New York,FL New York,IA New York,KY New York,MO New York,NM http://www.mapquest.com/maps/map.adp?city=New%20York&country=US to check for yourself. Bryan Carbonnell bryan_carbonnell at cbc.ca >>> artful at rogers.com 12-Mar-04 1:48:38 PM >>> Further, in the O-O courses that I have taken this kind of thing is specifically discouraged because it tightly couples the controls. Instead, they recommend creating creating a class that holds both controls as attributes of the class. This may or may not work in VBA, of course. In addition, in many cases where I have seen this sort of "one combo depends on another's value" thing done, it is IMO frequently the result of bad design at the database level. For example, a table contains say State and City fields, populated from the tables States and Cities -- and then the UI filters the Cities field on the basis of the State selection: bad design, IMO. There's no need to store the State, since we have the city, and New York exists in only one state. From ssharkins at bellsouth.net Fri Mar 12 10:46:59 2004 From: ssharkins at bellsouth.net (Susan Harkins) Date: Fri, 12 Mar 2004 11:46:59 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] question on normalization In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <20040312164655.PIGF15240.imf17aec.mail.bellsouth.net@SUSANONE> Oh! I hadn't realized this was the problem -- I see what you're saying -- totally missed that possibility. Susan H. Unfortunately, while zip codes are supposed to be unique, they may be shared among several small towns or a town may have multiple zip codes. Some buildings even have unique zip codes, but generally zip codes belong to post offices. I would say they were not a good candidate for a primary key in dealing with addresses. I've worked with postal databases and seen some of the "duplicate" zips, where several small towns share a post office and a zip code. A further complication is the +four extension. From rl_stewart at highstream.net Fri Mar 12 11:01:09 2004 From: rl_stewart at highstream.net (Robert L. Stewart) Date: Fri, 12 Mar 2004 11:01:09 -0600 Subject: [AccessD] Re: question on normalization In-Reply-To: <200403121446.i2CEk8M28074@databaseadvisors.com> Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20040312110029.02a9b4d0@pop3.highstream.net> My zip code 77418 covers 4 communities. I live in 1 or the 4. Robert At 08:46 AM 3/12/2004 -0600, you wrote: >Date: Fri, 12 Mar 2004 08:56:11 -0500 >From: "John Clark" >Subject: Re: [AccessD] question on normalization >To: >Message-ID: >Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII > >I have done a program, in the past, using the FMS zip code tables. This >was updated once a month, and it included Canadian, US, and >'territories'. > >I don't want to go that large here, because the residences of the >people in this database will be limited to 12 towns and 3 >cities--roughly 19 zip codes. So I was just wondering if it was OK to >have a single field table, or if I should include the zips with the >towns. The reason I was seperating the zips from the towns was because >some areas have multiple zips--for instance, Niagara Falls has 3 zip >codes, not including a separate one for Niagara University--and I >thought that might cause a problem. > >As a sidebar--sort of--why can't the zip itself be a primary key? From jwelz at hotmail.com Fri Mar 12 11:07:57 2004 From: jwelz at hotmail.com (Jürgen Welz) Date: Fri, 12 Mar 2004 10:07:57 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] Re: Printing forms Message-ID: There's always the PrintScrn button. Open Word and paste. Ciao J?rgen Welz Edmonton, Alberta jwelz at hotmail.com >From: rsmethurst at uk.ey.com > >Robert, > >Thanks for the reply. I'm aware of what forms and reports are used for. > >However, in this instance I need to print a screen-dump of a form. - I'll >elaborate on the scenario. > >On these forms (and there are many of them - mostly inherited from a >previous version of this app) there are graphs, combo boxes, datasheets >and drill down sub forms, allowing the user to make multiple (and usually >quite detailed) selections on the data. Once those selections are made >the users (as per the spec and the previous app versions) would like to >print a view of the actual form (i.e their selections and however that has >affected the data/graphs etc) - something which by and large works fine >except for the items I listed below. (The unbound combo's/radio's etc.) >The database (by design - out my hands) contains no reports - only these >screen prints. > >An obviouse work around is to put labels on the offending controls >(populate them with the required data) and make them visible only when >printing, but this seems crude if it would work....in fact it does - >previous versions of this app have shown that. I would just like to know >if there is a quicker way to do this. Printing bound controls is fine (in >fact even unbound controls with a default value set) - from what I can >see, it is the unbound ones without defaults that are problematic. > >Even if the users/project sponsors were open to reports in this instance >(which they are not) I just haven't got the time to go and develop the >number of reports that would duplicate what is on these numerous forms >(some of which are extremely complex) at this stage of the project. > >So, in summary, what I am hoping for, is info about the the most feasible >way to achieve this, given the time constraints I have mentioned above. >(It might be the labels...but I live in hope for a more simple/timely >solution) > >Ryan > > > > > >"Robert L. Stewart" >Sent by: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com >11/03/2004 18:15 >Please respond to Access Developers discussion and problem solving > > > To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com > cc: > Subject: [AccessD] Re: Printing forms > > >Ryan, > >That is because you print reports and not forms. > >Forms are for data entry. Reports are for printing. > >Robert > >At 11:46 AM 3/11/2004 -0600, you wrote: > >Date: Thu, 11 Mar 2004 17:42:38 +0000 > >From: rsmethurst at UK.EY.COM > >Subject: [AccessD] Printing forms > >To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > > > >Message-ID: > > > >Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" > > > >Hi All, > > > >I am having a problem printing forms - specifically it is with combo >boxes > >and radio buttons (usually within frames) which do not print with the > >correct option filled. > > > >i.e two radio buttons and both will print blank, even though the first >one > >is selected. > >and a combo box with have a selected value, but will not display this > >value when the form prints. > > > >The controls are all set to display for both print and screen, and the > >controls are unbound. > > > >TIA > > > >Ryan _________________________________________________________________ STOP MORE SPAM with the MSN Premium and get 2 months FREE* http://join.msn.com/?pgmarket=en-ca&page=byoa/prem&xAPID=1994&DI=1034&SU=http://hotmail.com/enca&HL=Market_MSNIS_Taglines From rl_stewart at highstream.net Fri Mar 12 11:11:37 2004 From: rl_stewart at highstream.net (Robert L. Stewart) Date: Fri, 12 Mar 2004 11:11:37 -0600 Subject: [AccessD] Re: question on normalization In-Reply-To: <200403121446.i2CEk8M28074@databaseadvisors.com> Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20040312110409.02a9f2d8@pop3.highstream.net> Welcome fellow freak. ;-) Also, you should technically do this in addition: tblCounty CountyID Autonumber (PK) CountyName Text(30) Unique Index tblCountyRegion CountyRegionID Autonumber (PK) CountyID Long Integer RegionID Long Integer Unique Index CountyID, RegionID Change tblPostalCode to tblPostalCode PostalCodeID AutoNumber (PK) PostalCode Text(10) CityID Long Integer CountyRegionID Long Integer Unique index on PostalCode, CityID, CountyRegionID That should take care of it. ;-) Robert P.S. When you look at some of the ISO standards for this kins of information, it gets very interesting. At 08:46 AM 3/12/2004 -0600, you wrote: >Date: Fri, 12 Mar 2004 08:59:27 -0500 >From: "John Clark" >Subject: [AccessD] Re: question on normalization >To: >Message-ID: >Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII > >This is actually what I was looking at--keeping the zips and the towns >seperated. > >Maybe I'm a closet freak myself--hmmph! > >John W Clark > > > >>> rl_stewart at highstream.net 3/12/2004 8:42:37 AM >>> > >John, > >I have a table for the US with all that >in it. Do you need it? > >For the normalization freaks (like me), >here is a normalized design: > >tblPostalCode >PostalCodeID AutoNumber (PK) >PostalCode Text(10) >CityID Long Integer >RegionID Long Integer > >Unique index on PostalCode, CityID, RegionID > >tblCity >CityID Autonumber (PK) >CityName Text(30) > >Unique Index on CityName > >tblRegion >RegionID Autonumber (PK) >RegionName Text(30) >CountryCode Text(2) > >Unique Index on RegionName, CountryCode > >tblCountry >CountryCode Text(2) (PK) >CountryName Text(30) > >Unique index on CountryName > > >Robert > >P.S. The ISO standard is actually Division, if I remember >correctly for the way I used region here. From Patricia.O'Connor at DFA.STATE.NY.US Fri Mar 12 11:19:31 2004 From: Patricia.O'Connor at DFA.STATE.NY.US (O'Connor, Patricia ) Date: Fri, 12 Mar 2004 12:19:31 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Framework Discussion - Who's following this Message-ID: Thanks John for all your work. I have not been able to read your posts yet, been bogged down with other projects and just returned from a trip. As soon as I am caught up with the 400 backlogged emails I will read this. B - EXTREMELY INTERESTED - I have an access 97 application that needs to be brought up to 2003. While doing this I would like to streamline some of its components. C - skimming - hopefully once I really get to read it all it will be clear c/d - once I get to it I will download and work with examples. Thanks again for all your work Patti > -----Original Message----- > From: John W. Colby [mailto:jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com] > Sent: Monday, March 08, 2004 01:44 PM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: [AccessD] Framework Discussion - Who's following this > > > My objective with this discussion is to explain the concepts and > implementation of frameworks in sufficient detail that anyone > willing to > learn can pick up at least a few new ideas, understand > classes and how they > can solve problems, understand withevents and how using them > allows us to > encapsulate entire subsystems into an object, and understand > Frameworks and > how and why they might be useful. I know that this is a rather large > objective, and that some of these subjects seem rather deep. I am > attempting to keep the details clean and uncluttered in the > beginning so > that you can not get bogged down in stuff not relevant to the specific > subject of the specific post. > > In order to accomplish this objective I need to get a feeling > for who is > following this discussion and at what level. Would everyone > interested in > this thread please answer the following questions: > > 1) Interest Level > a) I already pretty much do what you are discussing, > just wanted to see how > you do it. > b) I am extremely interested in this concept and > subject, would probably > use it if I can figure it out. > c) I am interested and might start using some of this stuff. > d) Moderately interested, probably too much work for > what I see getting out > of it > e) Marginally interested, probably never use any of it. > > 2) Understanding > a) I understand completely what is going on > b) I mostly follow what is happening but have a couple > of things I don't > really understand > c) I am trying my best but can't really follow a lot of it > d) Hopelessly lost, want to understand but need you to > slow down a bit. > > 3) Participation > a) I am scanning the posts lightly to just get the basics > b) I am reading it and attempting to follow the examples. > c) I am reading the posts and working through the > included code, and have > downloaded the example database > d) I am reading and have downloaded the database, and > have worked through > the examples in the database to see how this stuff works. > > I truly appreciate your participation. > > Thanks, > > John W. Colby > www.ColbyConsulting.com > > > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > From BarbaraRyan at cox.net Fri Mar 12 11:28:43 2004 From: BarbaraRyan at cox.net (Barbara Ryan) Date: Fri, 12 Mar 2004 12:28:43 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Run a report "invisibly" References: <426071E0B0A6D311B3C0006008B0AB23AFE3F2@TAPPEEXCH01> Message-ID: <00c501c40857$77b45360$0a00a8c0@cx470148a> Thanks, Brett.... I might try this. I'm going to talk it over with the client. Barb ----- Original Message ----- From: "Brett Barabash" To: "'Access Developers discussion and problem solving'" Sent: Friday, March 12, 2004 11:28 AM Subject: RE: [AccessD] Run a report "invisibly" > How about running the report in preview mode? > > You could use Application.Echo False to disable screen updating (with > extreme caution to ensure that it gets turned back on when you are done). > > Note: By default, only the first couple of pages page format when you > preview a report. However, if you bind a textbox to the =[Pages] property, > it forces the entire report to execute. After all this is done, you could > use DoCmd.Close acReport, to close it. > > > > Hi, Gustav... > > > I wish it was a joke!!! > > > The report is pretty complex, with 12 subreports. There are hundreds of > > calculations performed (in the report as well as all the subreports)--- > > subtotals of 2 or more subreports used in calculations in other > subreports, > > etc. The report also outputs data to a spreadsheet. > > > The data in the report is (almost) exactly what I need to create an export > > file requested by the client. However, I need to have a separate > interface > > for the export file function. I would like to execute the report > > "invisibly" --- to get the data I need --- and then just create my export > > file. > > > Is it possible to "turn off" the default printer (so the report won't > > print), execute the report in Normal mode, then turn the default printer > > back on? > > > Any other suggestions? > > > Thanks, > > Barb > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: "Gustav Brock" > > To: "Access Developers discussion and problem solving" > > > > Sent: Friday, March 12, 2004 8:51 AM > > Subject: Re: [AccessD] Run a report "invisibly" > > > >> Hi Barbara > >> > >> Is this a Friday joke? > >> Running a report invisibly without printing it?? > >> > >> Well, if you insist, you must have some action code when opening or > >> closing the report; pull that off the report and run it separately. > >> > >> /gustav > >> > >> > >> > Is there any way to run a report invisibly (i.e., "behind the scenes", > > without printing it) in Access 97? The only modes available are Preview, > > Normal, and Design. > > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > -------------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------------------ > The information in this email may contain confidential information that > is legally privileged. The information is only for the use of the intended > recipient(s) named above. If you are not the intended recipient(s), you > are hereby notified that any disclosure, copying, distribution, or the taking > of any action in regard to the content of this fax is strictly prohibited. If > transmission is incorrect, unclear, or incomplete, please notify the sender > immediately. The authorized recipient(s) of this information is/are prohibited > from disclosing this information to any other party and is/are required to > destroy the information after its stated need has been fulfilled. > > Any views expressed in this message are those of the individual > sender, except where the sender specifies and with authority, > states them to be the views of Tappe Construction Co. > > This footer also confirms that this email message has been scanned > for the presence of computer viruses.Scanning of this message and > addition of this footer is performed by SurfControl E-mail Filter software > in conjunction with virus detection software. > > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From Mark.Mitsules at ngc.com Fri Mar 12 11:31:44 2004 From: Mark.Mitsules at ngc.com (Mitsules, Mark S. (Newport News)) Date: Fri, 12 Mar 2004 12:31:44 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Run a report "invisibly" Message-ID: Using the default print dialogue, I recently utilized the "print to file" option to generate a table of contents from code behind a HUGE report. I just deleted the print file afterwards...the generated file was all I needed. This sounds similar to your situation. Mark -----Original Message----- From: Susan Harkins [mailto:ssharkins at bellsouth.net] Sent: Friday, March 12, 2004 11:05 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: [AccessD] Run a report "invisibly" I went looking for a Print to File setting in VBA and found nothing -- surely there is one? Susan H. Hi Barbara You would still get the "Now printing report ..." message box. I would bite the bullet and work with the queries and subqueries for the export. That would probably run way faster too. /gustav > Hi, Gustav... > I wish it was a joke!!! > The report is pretty complex, with 12 subreports. There are hundreds > of calculations performed (in the report as well as all the > subreports)--- subtotals of 2 or more subreports used in calculations > in other subreports, etc. The report also outputs data to a spreadsheet. > The data in the report is (almost) exactly what I need to create an > export file requested by the client. However, I need to have a > separate interface for the export file function. I would like to > execute the report "invisibly" --- to get the data I need --- and then > just create my export file. > Is it possible to "turn off" the default printer (so the report won't > print), execute the report in Normal mode, then turn the default > printer back on? > Any other suggestions? > Thanks, > Barb > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Gustav Brock" > To: "Access Developers discussion and problem solving" > > Sent: Friday, March 12, 2004 8:51 AM > Subject: Re: [AccessD] Run a report "invisibly" >> Hi Barbara >> >> Is this a Friday joke? >> Running a report invisibly without printing it?? >> >> Well, if you insist, you must have some action code when opening or >> closing the report; pull that off the report and run it separately. >> >> /gustav >> >> >> > Is there any way to run a report invisibly (i.e., "behind the >> > scenes", > without printing it) in Access 97? The only modes available are > Preview, Normal, and Design. -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From BarbaraRyan at cox.net Fri Mar 12 11:49:36 2004 From: BarbaraRyan at cox.net (Barbara Ryan) Date: Fri, 12 Mar 2004 12:49:36 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Run a report "invisibly" References: Message-ID: <00d001c4085a$62d19e00$0a00a8c0@cx470148a> Mark... is the "print to file" option available in Access 97? Sorry, I'm not familiar with it......Thanks, Barb ----- Original Message ----- From: "Mitsules, Mark S. (Newport News)" To: "'Access Developers discussion and problem solving'" Sent: Friday, March 12, 2004 12:31 PM Subject: RE: [AccessD] Run a report "invisibly" > Using the default print dialogue, I recently utilized the "print to file" > option to generate a table of contents from code behind a HUGE report. I > just deleted the print file afterwards...the generated file was all I > needed. > > This sounds similar to your situation. > > > > Mark > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: Susan Harkins [mailto:ssharkins at bellsouth.net] > Sent: Friday, March 12, 2004 11:05 AM > To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' > Subject: RE: [AccessD] Run a report "invisibly" > > > I went looking for a Print to File setting in VBA and found nothing -- > surely there is one? > > Susan H. > > Hi Barbara > > You would still get the "Now printing report ..." message box. > > I would bite the bullet and work with the queries and subqueries for the > export. That would probably run way faster too. > > /gustav > > > > Hi, Gustav... > > > I wish it was a joke!!! > > > The report is pretty complex, with 12 subreports. There are hundreds > > of calculations performed (in the report as well as all the > > subreports)--- subtotals of 2 or more subreports used in calculations > > in other subreports, etc. The report also outputs data to a spreadsheet. > > > The data in the report is (almost) exactly what I need to create an > > export file requested by the client. However, I need to have a > > separate interface for the export file function. I would like to > > execute the report "invisibly" --- to get the data I need --- and then > > just create my export file. > > > Is it possible to "turn off" the default printer (so the report won't > > print), execute the report in Normal mode, then turn the default > > printer back on? > > > Any other suggestions? > > > Thanks, > > Barb > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: "Gustav Brock" > > To: "Access Developers discussion and problem solving" > > > > Sent: Friday, March 12, 2004 8:51 AM > > Subject: Re: [AccessD] Run a report "invisibly" > > > >> Hi Barbara > >> > >> Is this a Friday joke? > >> Running a report invisibly without printing it?? > >> > >> Well, if you insist, you must have some action code when opening or > >> closing the report; pull that off the report and run it separately. > >> > >> /gustav > >> > >> > >> > Is there any way to run a report invisibly (i.e., "behind the > >> > scenes", > > without printing it) in Access 97? The only modes available are > > Preview, Normal, and Design. > > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From Patricia.O'Connor at DFA.STATE.NY.US Fri Mar 12 11:19:31 2004 From: Patricia.O'Connor at DFA.STATE.NY.US (O'Connor, Patricia ) Date: Fri, 12 Mar 2004 12:19:31 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Framework Discussion - Who's following this Message-ID: Thanks John for all your work. I have not been able to read your posts yet, been bogged down with other projects and just returned from a trip. As soon as I am caught up with the 400 backlogged emails I will read this. B - EXTREMELY INTERESTED - I have an access 97 application that needs to be brought up to 2003. While doing this I would like to streamline some of its components. C - skimming - hopefully once I really get to read it all it will be clear c/d - once I get to it I will download and work with examples. Thanks again for all your work Patti > -----Original Message----- > From: John W. Colby [mailto:jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com] > Sent: Monday, March 08, 2004 01:44 PM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: [AccessD] Framework Discussion - Who's following this > > > My objective with this discussion is to explain the concepts and > implementation of frameworks in sufficient detail that anyone > willing to > learn can pick up at least a few new ideas, understand > classes and how they > can solve problems, understand withevents and how using them > allows us to > encapsulate entire subsystems into an object, and understand > Frameworks and > how and why they might be useful. I know that this is a rather large > objective, and that some of these subjects seem rather deep. I am > attempting to keep the details clean and uncluttered in the > beginning so > that you can not get bogged down in stuff not relevant to the specific > subject of the specific post. > > In order to accomplish this objective I need to get a feeling > for who is > following this discussion and at what level. Would everyone > interested in > this thread please answer the following questions: > > 1) Interest Level > a) I already pretty much do what you are discussing, > just wanted to see how > you do it. > b) I am extremely interested in this concept and > subject, would probably > use it if I can figure it out. > c) I am interested and might start using some of this stuff. > d) Moderately interested, probably too much work for > what I see getting out > of it > e) Marginally interested, probably never use any of it. > > 2) Understanding > a) I understand completely what is going on > b) I mostly follow what is happening but have a couple > of things I don't > really understand > c) I am trying my best but can't really follow a lot of it > d) Hopelessly lost, want to understand but need you to > slow down a bit. > > 3) Participation > a) I am scanning the posts lightly to just get the basics > b) I am reading it and attempting to follow the examples. > c) I am reading the posts and working through the > included code, and have > downloaded the example database > d) I am reading and have downloaded the database, and > have worked through > the examples in the database to see how this stuff works. > > I truly appreciate your participation. > > Thanks, > > John W. Colby > www.ColbyConsulting.com > > > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > From HollisVJ at pgdp.usec.com Fri Mar 12 11:47:57 2004 From: HollisVJ at pgdp.usec.com (Hollis,Virginia) Date: Fri, 12 Mar 2004 11:47:57 -0600 Subject: [AccessD] Vendor Table Message-ID: <618EB4D6DDCDD3119B0A00508B6FD37A0CB0D2DE@cntexchange.pgdp.usec.com> Ok, that makes sense. Where would the Payment Terms, Ship Via, Freight Terms go - which table? Virginia -----Original Message----- From: DWUTKA at marlow.com [mailto:DWUTKA at marlow.com] Sent: Friday, March 12, 2004 10:17 AM To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: RE: [AccessD] Vendor Table Sounds like a PO system. The PurchaseOrder table would be the 'tie in'. You would have a PO Number, then a buyerID, VendorID, and your items. Depends on how complex you want to make it, you should probably have a PO Line Items table. Drew -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Hollis,Virginia Sent: Friday, March 12, 2004 9:01 AM To: 'accessd at databaseadvisors.com' Subject: [AccessD] Vendor Table I am starting a new database - that seems fairly standard, but it is my first time with this type.... This database is to track vendor information & requests. I know I need a table with vendor information, one for the buyer, & one for contacts. The problem is I can't think of how to tie them all together, especially the buyer & requestor with the vendor. The buyer completes the form with all the vendor information, regular fields - name, address, terms. I guess my question is what do I put in a Main? table to tie all the information together? It is mostly just a form completed by the buyer and sent to another department for entry into the suppliers database. But the 2nd department wants to track the requests (where I come in). Virginia -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From Lambert.Heenan at AIG.com Fri Mar 12 11:52:28 2004 From: Lambert.Heenan at AIG.com (Heenan, Lambert) Date: Fri, 12 Mar 2004 12:52:28 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Linking to Remote uSys Tables Message-ID: <8B98F8EA48F8BA47A2F24E0D0AF40CF407AD7FAF@xlivmbx12.aig.com> Just to confirm that, like Bryan, I see the USYS tables whichever way I try to get at them. As long as the "View System Objects" option is turned on. Lambert > -----Original Message----- > From: Bryan Carbonnell [SMTP:Bryan_Carbonnell at cbc.ca] > Sent: Friday, March 12, 2004 10:09 AM > To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com > Subject: [AccessD] Linking to Remote uSys Tables > > Didn't know you could do that. Thanks!:) > > However that being said, takes me to the same spot as File|Get External > Data... | Link Tables... does. > > I don't know why it's not working for you. I'm out of ideas. :( > > Bryan Carbonnell > bryan_carbonnell at cbc.ca > > >>> Mark.Mitsules at ngc.com 12-Mar-04 9:58:14 AM >>> > Neither actually...I was referring to being in the Table view of the > Database Window clicking the New button, then Link Table. Maybe that > explains the difference. > > > > Mark > > > -----Original Message----- > From: Bryan Carbonnell [mailto:Bryan_Carbonnell at cbc.ca] > Sent: Friday, March 12, 2004 9:45 AM > To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com > Subject: RE: [AccessD] Linking to Remote uSys Tables > > > Something just struck me. > > You wrote: > > using the Link Table wizard:( > > You mean the one under > File|Get External Data... | Link Tables... > > and not > > Tools|Database Utilities|Linked Table Manager > > right? > > If you are talking about the second one, you need to link the table > before > you can manage it. > > Bryan Carbonnell > bryan_carbonnell at cbc.ca > > >>> Mark.Mitsules at ngc.com 12-Mar-04 9:30:16 AM >>> > Have you verified that Bryan? > > I had both the show hidden objects and show system objects options > checked > in both my local and remote dbs, yet the uSys table did not show up > when > using the Link Table wizard:( > > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From DWUTKA at marlow.com Fri Mar 12 11:56:28 2004 From: DWUTKA at marlow.com (DWUTKA at marlow.com) Date: Fri, 12 Mar 2004 11:56:28 -0600 Subject: [AccessD] Framework Discussion - Who's following this Message-ID: <2F8793082E00D4119A1700B0D0216BF802227967@main2.marlow.com> 1) Interest Level: Kind of (a). I do a lot of ASP stuff, with VB .dll's in the background. Even though I am not dealing with 'bound forms', I am still creating a project framework, that handles the 'transactions'. Similar concepts. 2) Understanding: Understand what you are doing just fine, so I guess that's (a) again. 3) Participation: Not on the list. So (e): reading the posts just to see if you're doing something I haven't discovered myself. Basically, reading for the sake of picking up new tips/tricks. Something I'd like to ask, in an earlier post, you were explaining how you were 'linking' your Class objects. Just out of curiousity, why not do something like this: FrameWorkControl Class: Option Compare Database Property Set LinkedObject(objTemp As Object) End Property Public Function CleanUp() End Function Property Get ObjectName() As String End Property Property Get ObjectType() As String End Property FWComboBox Class: Option Compare Database Implements FrameWorkControl Dim WithEvents lnkObject As ComboBox Private Function FrameWorkControl_CleanUp() As Variant Set lnkObject = Nothing End Function Private Property Set FrameWorkControl_LinkedObject(RHS As Object) Set lnkObject = RHS lnkObject.OnClick = "[Event Procedure]" End Property Private Property Get FrameWorkControl_ObjectName() As String FrameWorkControl_ObjectName = lnkObject.Name End Property Private Property Get FrameWorkControl_ObjectType() As String FrameWorkControl_ObjectType = "ComboBox" End Property Private Sub lnkObject_Click() MsgBox lnkObject.Name End Sub FWTextBox Class: Option Compare Database Implements FrameWorkControl Dim WithEvents lnkObject As TextBox Private Function FrameWorkControl_CleanUp() As Variant Set lnkObject = Nothing End Function Private Property Set FrameWorkControl_LinkedObject(RHS As Object) Set lnkObject = RHS lnkObject.OnClick = "[Event Procedure]" End Property Private Property Get FrameWorkControl_ObjectName() As String FrameWorkControl_ObjectName = lnkObject.Name End Property Private Property Get FrameWorkControl_ObjectType() As String FrameWorkControl_ObjectType = "TextBox" End Property Private Sub lnkObject_Click() MsgBox lnkObject.Name End Sub Example Form Code: Dim FrameWorkObjects As Collection Private Sub Form_Load() Dim FWObj As FrameWorkControl Dim ctrl As Control Dim blValidControl As Boolean Set FrameWorkObjects = New Collection For Each ctrl In Me.Controls blValidControl = False If TypeOf ctrl Is TextBox Then Set FWObj = New FWTextBox blValidControl = True End If If TypeOf ctrl Is ComboBox Then Set FWObj = New FWComboBox blValidControl = True End If If blValidControl Then Set FWObj.LinkedObject = ctrl FrameWorkObjects.Add FWObj, FWObj.ObjectName Set FWObj = Nothing End If Next End Sub From fahooper at trapo.com Fri Mar 12 13:33:47 2004 From: fahooper at trapo.com (Fred Hooper) Date: Fri, 12 Mar 2004 14:33:47 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Detect form height In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <001901c40868$f11babc0$f0bffea9@fred> I have a A2K app where the users like to resize the continuous forms to show more records. However, after they've done so the height shrinks a bit each time the form is opened and, eventually, they're back to showing a single record. Is there any way to detect the form's height (probably when the form closes) so I can save it and use DoCmd.MoveSize to return the form to the chosen size? TIA From HollisVJ at pgdp.usec.com Fri Mar 12 13:47:38 2004 From: HollisVJ at pgdp.usec.com (Hollis,Virginia) Date: Fri, 12 Mar 2004 13:47:38 -0600 Subject: [AccessD] Field Cannot be Updated Message-ID: <618EB4D6DDCDD3119B0A00508B6FD37A0CB0D2E2@cntexchange.pgdp.usec.com> I am creating a form for vendor information, it contains a tabbed form with the regular vendor data from tblVendor. The 2nd tab comes from tblType - tblType lists the different types of businesses the vendor can be (Small, women-owned, etc). The last tab is a subform for adding the vendor contacts (tblContact). When I make a new entry and type something in any of the fields on the first tab for Vendor information, I receive - Field Cannot be Updated - I have never seen this message before. After several clicks of OK, the data I typed in the field shows & the record works just fine - all the other fields can be updated and the record shows all the data. What & where should I look to find what is causing the error? tblVendor has VendorID PK tblType has VendorID FK tblContact has VendorID FK I have Cascade Update & Delete checked - would this have something to do with the error? I have used it before without errors. Virginia From HollisVJ at pgdp.usec.com Fri Mar 12 14:37:13 2004 From: HollisVJ at pgdp.usec.com (Hollis,Virginia) Date: Fri, 12 Mar 2004 14:37:13 -0600 Subject: [AccessD] Field Cannot be Updated Message-ID: <618EB4D6DDCDD3119B0A00508B6FD37A0CB0D2E6@cntexchange.pgdp.usec.com> Should tblVendor have TypeID as a FK? Virginia -----Original Message----- From: Hollis,Virginia [mailto:HollisVJ at pgdp.usec.com] Sent: Friday, March 12, 2004 1:48 PM To: 'accessd at databaseadvisors.com' Subject: [AccessD] Field Cannot be Updated I am creating a form for vendor information, it contains a tabbed form with the regular vendor data from tblVendor. The 2nd tab comes from tblType - tblType lists the different types of businesses the vendor can be (Small, women-owned, etc). The last tab is a subform for adding the vendor contacts (tblContact). When I make a new entry and type something in any of the fields on the first tab for Vendor information, I receive - Field Cannot be Updated - I have never seen this message before. After several clicks of OK, the data I typed in the field shows & the record works just fine - all the other fields can be updated and the record shows all the data. What & where should I look to find what is causing the error? tblVendor has VendorID PK tblType has VendorID FK tblContact has VendorID FK I have Cascade Update & Delete checked - would this have something to do with the error? I have used it before without errors. Virginia -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From joconnell at indy.rr.com Fri Mar 12 15:25:45 2004 From: joconnell at indy.rr.com (Joseph O'Connell) Date: Fri, 12 Mar 2004 16:25:45 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Detect form height Message-ID: <011e01c40878$a98240c0$6701a8c0@joe> Fred, You will need to capture the height of each section in the OnClose event. lngHeaderHeight = Me.Section(acHeader).Height lngDetailHeight = Me.Section(acDetail).Height lngFooterHeight = Me.Section(acFooter).Height To restore the form to its original dimensions, reverse the statements in the OnOpen event Me.Section(acHeader).Height = lngHeaderHeight Me.Section(acDetail).Height = lngDetailHeight Me.Section(acFooter).Height = lngFooterHeight Of course you will need to store the values in the OnClose event and retrieve them in the OnOpen event. Joe O'Connell -----Original Message----- From: Fred Hooper To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Date: Friday, March 12, 2004 2:38 PM Subject: [AccessD] Detect form height |I have a A2K app where the users like to resize the continuous forms to show |more records. |However, after they've done so the height shrinks a bit each time the form |is opened and, eventually, they're back to showing a single record. | |Is there any way to detect the form's height (probably when the form closes) |so I can save it and use DoCmd.MoveSize to return the form to the chosen |size? | |TIA | |-- |_______________________________________________ |AccessD mailing list |AccessD at databaseadvisors.com |http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd |Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com Fri Mar 12 16:11:13 2004 From: jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com (John W. Colby) Date: Fri, 12 Mar 2004 17:11:13 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] DependentObjects class In-Reply-To: <000001c40862$a7396430$6501a8c0@rock> Message-ID: >Instead, they recommend creating a class that holds both controls as attributes of the class. This may or may not work in VBA, of course. And of course that can be done. However since the framework exists (or will!) and it has a combo class, why not allow any combo to know that something else is dependent on it, and then when it changes go requery anything that is dependent? In addition, in many cases where I have seen this sort of "one combo depends on another's value" thing done, it is IMO frequently the result of bad design at the database level. Yes, but you intentionally chose an example of normalization issues. What about companies / people / employees? As you select a different company in ComboA you want the "choice" of Employees in ComboB to change? What about Companies / payments, companies / invoices, companies... Dependent combos is SO common that it is a frequent "how do I" topic on this very list. >So in that case we're back to the custom class that embeds both combos. Absolutely possible and in fact easy using classes and Withevents. But again, all I have to do is tell the class instance for ComboA that ComboA "is dependent on it" and then whenever ComboA changes it automatically requeries ComboB. If comboC is dependent on ComboB, then when ComboB is requeried by ComboA, ComboB looks in it's dependent objects collection (or class) and requeries all of ITs dependent objects. This is a classic case of a normal framework behavior replacing custom programming. >But I do believe that designing classes that know specifics about other classes (i.e. worst of all is that they must know the name of the other class's instance) is fundamentally incorrect. The class doesn't know anything except it has a collection of objects that it needs to requery!!! No clue at all what the objects are, just that they are in its collection and it needs to call a requery method for each one. In fact the objects can be other combos, other lists, subforms, other open forms... anything in the application that is a class and as a requery method. The DEVELOPER knows that ComboB depends on ComboA and in the form's Open event tells the framework (a specific class instance). Further combos aren't the only objects that can have dependent objects. Basically anything (any control) that can be referenced by the SQL of another control can have dependent objects. A text box can be referenced by a combo so it can have a dependent objects class. Likewise a checkbox, a radio button, ANYTHING that can be referenced by SQL in the recordset for a control or form. Stick around for the discussion, we are about to add that functionality to our "framework" (it isn't a framework yet!) so you can see what I am talking about. John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Arthur Fuller Sent: Friday, March 12, 2004 1:49 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: [AccessD] DependentObjects class Further, in the O-O courses that I have taken this kind of thing is specifically discouraged because it tightly couples the controls. Instead, they recommend creating creating a class that holds both controls as attributes of the class. This may or may not work in VBA, of course. In addition, in many cases where I have seen this sort of "one combo depends on another's value" thing done, it is IMO frequently the result of bad design at the database level. For example, a table contains say State and City fields, populated from the tables States and Cities -- and then the UI filters the Cities field on the basis of the State selection: bad design, IMO. There's no need to store the State, since we have the city, and New York exists in only one state. On the other hand, take the case of ProductCategories and Products. At the database level, IMO, the same pertains: do not store the category since it can be inferred from the product. However, it may well be useful for the user to select a category and then a product from said category. So in that case we're back to the custom class that embeds both combos. I don't know if that approach can work in Access. I leave that to JC to determine. But I do believe that designing classes that know specifics about other classes (i.e. worst of all is that they must know the name of the other class's instance) is fundamentally incorrect. Just my $.02 Arthur -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Stuart McLachlan Sent: Wednesday, March 10, 2004 9:40 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problemsolving Subject: Re: [AccessD] DependentObjects class On 11 Mar 2004 at 0:11, John W. Colby wrote: > I am working on a dependentobjects class, i.e. a class with a > collection which holds objects (classes) where the control or form is > dependent on the current control. Combo A changes. Combo B uses > Combo A to filter itself. Combo B is "dependent" on combo A and must > be requeried whenever Combo A changes. > > This is a case where I programmed a solution working but it was ugly. > How would you solve this problem? > I doubt if I would do it with a class. It's not *that* common a requirement and there are so many different ways that you can end up with circular references, CtlA - CtlB - CtlC - CtlD...... CtlX - CtlC etc that trying to allow for them would end up with such code bolat that the whole thing became inefficient. -- Lexacorp Ltd http://www.lexacorp.com.pg Information Technology Consultancy, Software Development,System Support. -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com Fri Mar 12 16:14:28 2004 From: jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com (John W. Colby) Date: Fri, 12 Mar 2004 17:14:28 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Framework Discussion - Who's following this In-Reply-To: <2F8793082E00D4119A1700B0D0216BF802227967@main2.marlow.com> Message-ID: Ooooh I'm gonna have to work through that since I don't understand what you are up to. I'm assuming that we are talking interfaces here? John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of DWUTKA at marlow.com Sent: Friday, March 12, 2004 12:56 PM To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: RE: [AccessD] Framework Discussion - Who's following this 1) Interest Level: Kind of (a). I do a lot of ASP stuff, with VB .dll's in the background. Even though I am not dealing with 'bound forms', I am still creating a project framework, that handles the 'transactions'. Similar concepts. 2) Understanding: Understand what you are doing just fine, so I guess that's (a) again. 3) Participation: Not on the list. So (e): reading the posts just to see if you're doing something I haven't discovered myself. Basically, reading for the sake of picking up new tips/tricks. Something I'd like to ask, in an earlier post, you were explaining how you were 'linking' your Class objects. Just out of curiousity, why not do something like this: FrameWorkControl Class: Option Compare Database Property Set LinkedObject(objTemp As Object) End Property Public Function CleanUp() End Function Property Get ObjectName() As String End Property Property Get ObjectType() As String End Property FWComboBox Class: Option Compare Database Implements FrameWorkControl Dim WithEvents lnkObject As ComboBox Private Function FrameWorkControl_CleanUp() As Variant Set lnkObject = Nothing End Function Private Property Set FrameWorkControl_LinkedObject(RHS As Object) Set lnkObject = RHS lnkObject.OnClick = "[Event Procedure]" End Property Private Property Get FrameWorkControl_ObjectName() As String FrameWorkControl_ObjectName = lnkObject.Name End Property Private Property Get FrameWorkControl_ObjectType() As String FrameWorkControl_ObjectType = "ComboBox" End Property Private Sub lnkObject_Click() MsgBox lnkObject.Name End Sub FWTextBox Class: Option Compare Database Implements FrameWorkControl Dim WithEvents lnkObject As TextBox Private Function FrameWorkControl_CleanUp() As Variant Set lnkObject = Nothing End Function Private Property Set FrameWorkControl_LinkedObject(RHS As Object) Set lnkObject = RHS lnkObject.OnClick = "[Event Procedure]" End Property Private Property Get FrameWorkControl_ObjectName() As String FrameWorkControl_ObjectName = lnkObject.Name End Property Private Property Get FrameWorkControl_ObjectType() As String FrameWorkControl_ObjectType = "TextBox" End Property Private Sub lnkObject_Click() MsgBox lnkObject.Name End Sub Example Form Code: Dim FrameWorkObjects As Collection Private Sub Form_Load() Dim FWObj As FrameWorkControl Dim ctrl As Control Dim blValidControl As Boolean Set FrameWorkObjects = New Collection For Each ctrl In Me.Controls blValidControl = False If TypeOf ctrl Is TextBox Then Set FWObj = New FWTextBox blValidControl = True End If If TypeOf ctrl Is ComboBox Then Set FWObj = New FWComboBox blValidControl = True End If If blValidControl Then Set FWObj.LinkedObject = ctrl FrameWorkObjects.Add FWObj, FWObj.ObjectName Set FWObj = Nothing End If Next End Sub -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From my.lists at verizon.net Fri Mar 12 17:58:17 2004 From: my.lists at verizon.net (Francisco H Tapia) Date: Fri, 12 Mar 2004 15:58:17 -0800 Subject: [AccessD] PING Message-ID: <40524E99.9030901@verizon.net> NO ARCHIVE -- -Francisco From joeget at vgernet.net Fri Mar 12 18:29:21 2004 From: joeget at vgernet.net (John Eget) Date: Fri, 12 Mar 2004 19:29:21 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] date on HP PCs References: <00b701c407be$e0afba10$7dc2f63f@Desktop> <40510DDB.2090208@shaw.ca> Message-ID: <005b01c40892$b9cddba0$8ac2f63f@Desktop> it is the exact same database on each pc ----- Original Message ----- From: "MartyConnelly" To: "Access Developers discussion and problem solving" Sent: Thursday, March 11, 2004 8:09 PM Subject: Re: [AccessD] date on HP PCs > Probably a missing reference. On the HP's open up the mdb modules > Tools--> Reference and check for the flagged missing ones. > You may have something like a specific reference pointer to ADO MDAC 2.5 > and say you are using WinXP( it will only have ADO 2.7 by default.) > > > > John Eget wrote: > > >I had the oddest thing happen today, My databases do not show =Date(), but only on the new HPs in work. > >Has anyone come across this before? > >John > > > > > > -- > Marty Connelly > Victoria, B.C. > Canada > > > > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From my.lists at verizon.net Fri Mar 12 18:46:10 2004 From: my.lists at verizon.net (Francisco H Tapia) Date: Fri, 12 Mar 2004 16:46:10 -0800 Subject: [AccessD] Are you part of the 98%? Message-ID: <405259D2.80905@verizon.net> Because it's Friday.... -- -Francisco ------------------- Take the test; it is amazing - Let me know what percentage range you fall into - Test Just follow the instructions as quickly as possible. Do not go to the next calculation before you have finished the previous one. You do not need to write or remember the answers, just do it using your mind. You'll be surprised. Start: How much is: 15+6 3+56 89+2 12+53 75+26 25+52 63+32 I know! Calculations are hard work but it's nearly over... Come on, one more... 123+5 QUICK! THINK ABOUT A TOOL AND A COLOR! Scroll further to the bottom... A bit more... You have just thought about a red hammer, haven't you???? If this is not the case, you are among 2% of people who have a "different" if not "abnormal" mind. 98% of the folks would answer a "red hammer" while doing this exercise. From Kenneth.Stoker at pnl.gov Fri Mar 12 18:54:11 2004 From: Kenneth.Stoker at pnl.gov (Stoker, Kenneth E) Date: Fri, 12 Mar 2004 16:54:11 -0800 Subject: [AccessD] Are you part of the 98%? Message-ID: <249C1CB246997C48BB74963CCD361C1B014A0567@pnlmse28.pnl.gov> So I thought of a wrench and green. Must be odd.:-) Ken Stoker -----Original Message----- From: Francisco H Tapia [mailto:my.lists at verizon.net] Sent: Friday, March 12, 2004 4:46 PM To: AccessD; Access-L Subject: [AccessD] Are you part of the 98%? Because it's Friday.... -- -Francisco ------------------- Take the test; it is amazing - Let me know what percentage range you fall into - Test Just follow the instructions as quickly as possible. Do not go to the next calculation before you have finished the previous one. You do not need to write or remember the answers, just do it using your mind. You'll be surprised. Start: How much is: 15+6 3+56 89+2 12+53 75+26 25+52 63+32 I know! Calculations are hard work but it's nearly over... Come on, one more... 123+5 QUICK! THINK ABOUT A TOOL AND A COLOR! Scroll further to the bottom... A bit more... You have just thought about a red hammer, haven't you???? If this is not the case, you are among 2% of people who have a "different" if not "abnormal" mind. 98% of the folks would answer a "red hammer" while doing this exercise. -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com Fri Mar 12 18:59:12 2004 From: jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com (John W. Colby) Date: Fri, 12 Mar 2004 19:59:12 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Are you part of the 98%? In-Reply-To: <405259D2.80905@verizon.net> Message-ID: That's amazing, but especially so because I thought BLACK hammer. WHY hammer? I think the most common tool is hammer and we're going with "off the cuff" or very fast responses, then RED is thought of similarly, "first color out of your mouth". It would be nice to know if Black is aberrant. ;-) John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Francisco H Tapia Sent: Friday, March 12, 2004 7:46 PM To: AccessD; Access-L Subject: [AccessD] Are you part of the 98%? Because it's Friday.... -- -Francisco ------------------- Take the test; it is amazing - Let me know what percentage range you fall into - Test Just follow the instructions as quickly as possible. Do not go to the next calculation before you have finished the previous one. You do not need to write or remember the answers, just do it using your mind. You'll be surprised. Start: How much is: 15+6 3+56 89+2 12+53 75+26 25+52 63+32 I know! Calculations are hard work but it's nearly over... Come on, one more... 123+5 QUICK! THINK ABOUT A TOOL AND A COLOR! Scroll further to the bottom... A bit more... You have just thought about a red hammer, haven't you???? If this is not the case, you are among 2% of people who have a "different" if not "abnormal" mind. 98% of the folks would answer a "red hammer" while doing this exercise. -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From rfv at entelix.com Fri Mar 12 19:05:51 2004 From: rfv at entelix.com (rfv at entelix.com) Date: Fri, 12 Mar 2004 19:05:51 -0600 Subject: [AccessD] Are you part of the 98%? In-Reply-To: <405259D2.80905@verizon.net> Message-ID: <200403130107.i2D176M03427@databaseadvisors.com> Fridge and white! -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Francisco H Tapia Sent: Viernes, 12 de Marzo de 2004 06:46 p.m. To: AccessD; Access-L Subject: [AccessD] Are you part of the 98%? Because it's Friday.... -- -Francisco ------------------- Take the test; it is amazing - Let me know what percentage range you fall into - Test Just follow the instructions as quickly as possible. Do not go to the next calculation before you have finished the previous one. You do not need to write or remember the answers, just do it using your mind. You'll be surprised. Start: How much is: 15+6 3+56 89+2 12+53 75+26 25+52 63+32 I know! Calculations are hard work but it's nearly over... Come on, one more... 123+5 QUICK! THINK ABOUT A TOOL AND A COLOR! Scroll further to the bottom... A bit more... You have just thought about a red hammer, haven't you???? If this is not the case, you are among 2% of people who have a "different" if not "abnormal" mind. 98% of the folks would answer a "red hammer" while doing this exercise. -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From my.lists at verizon.net Fri Mar 12 19:11:21 2004 From: my.lists at verizon.net (Francisco H Tapia) Date: Fri, 12 Mar 2004 17:11:21 -0800 Subject: [AccessD] Are you part of the 98%? In-Reply-To: <249C1CB246997C48BB74963CCD361C1B014A0567@pnlmse28.pnl.gov> References: <249C1CB246997C48BB74963CCD361C1B014A0567@pnlmse28.pnl.gov> Message-ID: <40525FB9.1080105@verizon.net> I'm finding it more rare if people even think of a Red Hammer, I thought Red Rachet. Stoker, Kenneth E wrote: >So I thought of a wrench and green. Must be odd.:-) > >Ken Stoker > >-----Original Message----- >From: Francisco H Tapia [mailto:my.lists at verizon.net] >Sent: Friday, March 12, 2004 4:46 PM >To: AccessD; Access-L >Subject: [AccessD] Are you part of the 98%? > > > >Because it's Friday.... > > > -- -Francisco From jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com Fri Mar 12 19:13:17 2004 From: jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com (John W. Colby) Date: Fri, 12 Mar 2004 20:13:17 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Framework Discussion - Who's following this In-Reply-To: <2F8793082E00D4119A1700B0D0216BF802227967@main2.marlow.com> Message-ID: Drew, I am open to interfaces, assuming that you can present a case for a significant advantage. What do I gain by implements? Other than being able to treat the objects as a custom type (class) rather than an object what have I gained? Am I getting early binding out of this so that Intellisense works? If so can I "get at" all of the class properties, i.e. not just those implemented? IOW, if I say: Set FWObj = New FWComboBox can I then say FWObj.ComboClassSpecificProperty? That would definitely be cool, and powerful. At the moment when I pass an object, I get late binding so I can't really tell if I am getting a valid method, passing valid parameters etc. until I test it out at runtime. Implements and interfaces adds another level of complexity that even I don't understand. My audience here may already be struggling with just figuring out classes and withevents. If I am going to throw in Interfaces and Implements (and learn it myself) it has to be for a darned good reason. John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com Something I'd like to ask, in an earlier post, you were explaining how you were 'linking' your Class objects. Just out of curiousity, why not do something like this: FrameWorkControl Class: Option Compare Database Property Set LinkedObject(objTemp As Object) End Property Public Function CleanUp() End Function Property Get ObjectName() As String End Property Property Get ObjectType() As String End Property FWComboBox Class: Option Compare Database Implements FrameWorkControl Dim WithEvents lnkObject As ComboBox Private Function FrameWorkControl_CleanUp() As Variant Set lnkObject = Nothing End Function Private Property Set FrameWorkControl_LinkedObject(RHS As Object) Set lnkObject = RHS lnkObject.OnClick = "[Event Procedure]" End Property Private Property Get FrameWorkControl_ObjectName() As String FrameWorkControl_ObjectName = lnkObject.Name End Property Private Property Get FrameWorkControl_ObjectType() As String FrameWorkControl_ObjectType = "ComboBox" End Property Private Sub lnkObject_Click() MsgBox lnkObject.Name End Sub FWTextBox Class: Option Compare Database Implements FrameWorkControl Dim WithEvents lnkObject As TextBox Private Function FrameWorkControl_CleanUp() As Variant Set lnkObject = Nothing End Function Private Property Set FrameWorkControl_LinkedObject(RHS As Object) Set lnkObject = RHS lnkObject.OnClick = "[Event Procedure]" End Property Private Property Get FrameWorkControl_ObjectName() As String FrameWorkControl_ObjectName = lnkObject.Name End Property Private Property Get FrameWorkControl_ObjectType() As String FrameWorkControl_ObjectType = "TextBox" End Property Private Sub lnkObject_Click() MsgBox lnkObject.Name End Sub Example Form Code: Dim FrameWorkObjects As Collection Private Sub Form_Load() Dim FWObj As FrameWorkControl Dim ctrl As Control Dim blValidControl As Boolean Set FrameWorkObjects = New Collection For Each ctrl In Me.Controls blValidControl = False If TypeOf ctrl Is TextBox Then Set FWObj = New FWTextBox blValidControl = True End If If TypeOf ctrl Is ComboBox Then Set FWObj = New FWComboBox blValidControl = True End If If blValidControl Then Set FWObj.LinkedObject = ctrl FrameWorkObjects.Add FWObj, FWObj.ObjectName Set FWObj = Nothing End If Next End Sub -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From my.lists at verizon.net Fri Mar 12 19:12:09 2004 From: my.lists at verizon.net (Francisco H Tapia) Date: Fri, 12 Mar 2004 17:12:09 -0800 Subject: [AccessD] Are you part of the 98%? In-Reply-To: <200403130107.i2D176M03427@databaseadvisors.com> References: <200403130107.i2D176M03427@databaseadvisors.com> Message-ID: <40525FE9.5090208@verizon.net> I didn't know that Fridge was a tool... :| rfv at entelix.com wrote: >Fridge and white! > >-----Original Message----- >From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com >[mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Francisco H Tapia >Sent: Viernes, 12 de Marzo de 2004 06:46 p.m. >To: AccessD; Access-L >Subject: [AccessD] Are you part of the 98%? > > >Because it's Friday.... > > > -- -Francisco From BBarabash at TappeConstruction.com Fri Mar 12 19:18:40 2004 From: BBarabash at TappeConstruction.com (Brett Barabash) Date: Fri, 12 Mar 2004 19:18:40 -0600 Subject: [AccessD] Are you part of the 98%? Message-ID: <426071E0B0A6D311B3C0006008B0AB23AFE3F8@TAPPEEXCH01> The first thing that popped into my head was red hammer, then blue hammer. Sort of like the question asked by the bridge troll in Monty Python's Holy Grail.... What's your favorite color? Red, no blue... AAAAAAAUGHHHH!!! -------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- The information in this email may contain confidential information that is legally privileged. The information is only for the use of the intended recipient(s) named above. If you are not the intended recipient(s), you are hereby notified that any disclosure, copying, distribution, or the taking of any action in regard to the content of this fax is strictly prohibited. If transmission is incorrect, unclear, or incomplete, please notify the sender immediately. The authorized recipient(s) of this information is/are prohibited from disclosing this information to any other party and is/are required to destroy the information after its stated need has been fulfilled. Any views expressed in this message are those of the individual sender, except where the sender specifies and with authority, states them to be the views of Tappe Construction Co. This footer also confirms that this email message has been scanned for the presence of computer viruses.Scanning of this message and addition of this footer is performed by SurfControl E-mail Filter software in conjunction with virus detection software. From stuart at lexacorp.com.pg Fri Mar 12 19:19:53 2004 From: stuart at lexacorp.com.pg (Stuart McLachlan) Date: Sat, 13 Mar 2004 11:19:53 +1000 Subject: [AccessD] Are you part of the 98%? In-Reply-To: References: <405259D2.80905@verizon.net> Message-ID: <4052EE59.12179.372B4A@localhost> On 12 Mar 2004 at 19:59, John W. Colby wrote: > That's amazing, but especially so because I thought BLACK hammer. WHY > hammer? I think the most common tool is hammer and we're going with "off > the cuff" or very fast responses, then RED is thought of similarly, "first > color out of your mouth". > 'cos it's designed to annoy you with the repetitive scrollling and arithmetic before you get to the punchline? By the time you get all the way to the bottom, you are seeing red and want to hammer the person that sent it. -- Lexacorp Ltd http://www.lexacorp.com.pg Information Technology Consultancy, Software Development,System Support. From stuart at lexacorp.com.pg Fri Mar 12 19:26:07 2004 From: stuart at lexacorp.com.pg (Stuart McLachlan) Date: Sat, 13 Mar 2004 11:26:07 +1000 Subject: [AccessD] date on HP PCs In-Reply-To: <005b01c40892$b9cddba0$8ac2f63f@Desktop> Message-ID: <4052EFCF.28301.3CE04A@localhost> But not the same set of installed software/OS version to the system where the database was developed. There willl be a reference to something (such as a specific MDAC version) that was on the development machine but not on the HP. On 12 Mar 2004 at 19:29, John Eget wrote: > it is the exact same database on each pc > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "MartyConnelly" > To: "Access Developers discussion and problem solving" > > Sent: Thursday, March 11, 2004 8:09 PM > Subject: Re: [AccessD] date on HP PCs > > > > Probably a missing reference. On the HP's open up the mdb modules > > Tools--> Reference and check for the flagged missing ones. > > You may have something like a specific reference pointer to ADO MDAC 2.5 > > and say you are using WinXP( it will only have ADO 2.7 by default.) > > > > > > > > John Eget wrote: > > > > >I had the oddest thing happen today, My databases do not show =Date(), > but only on the new HPs in work. > > >Has anyone come across this before? > > >John > > > > > > > > > > -- > > Marty Connelly > > Victoria, B.C. > > Canada > > > > > > > > -- > > _______________________________________________ > > AccessD mailing list > > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- Lexacorp Ltd http://www.lexacorp.com.pg Information Technology Consultancy, Software Development,System Support. From stuart at lexacorp.com.pg Fri Mar 12 19:32:26 2004 From: stuart at lexacorp.com.pg (Stuart McLachlan) Date: Sat, 13 Mar 2004 11:32:26 +1000 Subject: [AccessD] Run a report "invisibly" In-Reply-To: <00d001c4085a$62d19e00$0a00a8c0@cx470148a> Message-ID: <4052F14A.7926.42A8B2@localhost> On 12 Mar 2004 at 12:49, Barbara Ryan wrote: > Mark... is the "print to file" option available in Access 97? Sorry, I'm > not familiar with it......Thanks, Barb > > It's an OS thing, not an Access thing. Just set up a new printer (use any driver you want - the Generic/Text one is as good as any) and configure it to use FILE: (Print to File) as it's port. Or better still, you can "Add port" and put in a filename as the port. Then set your report to use that specific printer. If you specify FILE: as the port, you will get a prompt appears asking you to supply a filename. If you set a filename as a port when you set up the printer, the report will be printed to the file without requiring any user action. -- Lexacorp Ltd http://www.lexacorp.com.pg Information Technology Consultancy, Software Development,System Support. From jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com Fri Mar 12 19:34:55 2004 From: jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com (John W. Colby) Date: Fri, 12 Mar 2004 20:34:55 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Are you part of the 98%? In-Reply-To: <4052EE59.12179.372B4A@localhost> Message-ID: rotfl. Entirely likely! John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Stuart McLachlan Sent: Friday, March 12, 2004 8:20 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problemsolving Subject: RE: [AccessD] Are you part of the 98%? On 12 Mar 2004 at 19:59, John W. Colby wrote: > That's amazing, but especially so because I thought BLACK hammer. WHY > hammer? I think the most common tool is hammer and we're going with "off > the cuff" or very fast responses, then RED is thought of similarly, "first > color out of your mouth". > 'cos it's designed to annoy you with the repetitive scrollling and arithmetic before you get to the punchline? By the time you get all the way to the bottom, you are seeing red and want to hammer the person that sent it. -- Lexacorp Ltd http://www.lexacorp.com.pg Information Technology Consultancy, Software Development,System Support. -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From ssharkins at bellsouth.net Fri Mar 12 19:59:07 2004 From: ssharkins at bellsouth.net (Susan Harkins) Date: Fri, 12 Mar 2004 20:59:07 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Are you part of the 98%? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <20040313015903.KLE13717.imf16aec.mail.bellsouth.net@SUSANONE> It would be nice to know if Black is aberrant. ;-) =======Absolutely not -- it represents the unknown. Susan H. From ssharkins at bellsouth.net Fri Mar 12 19:59:07 2004 From: ssharkins at bellsouth.net (Susan Harkins) Date: Fri, 12 Mar 2004 20:59:07 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Are you part of the 98%? In-Reply-To: <405259D2.80905@verizon.net> Message-ID: <20040313015909.KME13717.imf16aec.mail.bellsouth.net@SUSANONE> I hang out here... I don't need a test to tell me I'm abnormal. :) Sorry -- one of the 2%. Susan H. Because it's Friday.... From jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com Fri Mar 12 20:15:50 2004 From: jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com (John W. Colby) Date: Fri, 12 Mar 2004 21:15:50 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Are you part of the 98%? In-Reply-To: <20040313015909.KME13717.imf16aec.mail.bellsouth.net@SUSANONE> Message-ID: >I hang out here... I don't need a test to tell me I'm abnormal. :) rotfl. Yea, it would be interesting to see what percent of these weirdoes fall in the 98%. ;-) John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Susan Harkins Sent: Friday, March 12, 2004 8:59 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: [AccessD] Are you part of the 98%? I hang out here... I don't need a test to tell me I'm abnormal. :) Sorry -- one of the 2%. Susan H. Because it's Friday.... -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From carbonnb at sympatico.ca Fri Mar 12 20:28:04 2004 From: carbonnb at sympatico.ca (Bryan Carbonnell) Date: Fri, 12 Mar 2004 21:28:04 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Are you part of the 98%? In-Reply-To: References: <20040313015909.KME13717.imf16aec.mail.bellsouth.net@SUSANONE> Message-ID: <40522B64.7993.AE5A74@localhost> On 12 Mar 2004 at 21:15, John W. Colby wrote: > rotfl. Yea, it would be interesting to see what percent of these > weirdoes fall in the 98%. HEY!!!!! I resemble that remark!!! I'm one of those 98% weirdos. And Damn proud of it :-) -- Bryan Carbonnell - carbonnb at sympatico.ca We're all here because we're not all there. From jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com Fri Mar 12 20:45:05 2004 From: jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com (John W. Colby) Date: Fri, 12 Mar 2004 21:45:05 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Are you part of the 98%? In-Reply-To: <40522B64.7993.AE5A74@localhost> Message-ID: And we're proud to have you as an AccessD member! John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Bryan Carbonnell Sent: Friday, March 12, 2004 9:28 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problemsolving Subject: RE: [AccessD] Are you part of the 98%? On 12 Mar 2004 at 21:15, John W. Colby wrote: > rotfl. Yea, it would be interesting to see what percent of these > weirdoes fall in the 98%. HEY!!!!! I resemble that remark!!! I'm one of those 98% weirdos. And Damn proud of it :-) -- Bryan Carbonnell - carbonnb at sympatico.ca We're all here because we're not all there. -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From Jeff at OUTBAKTech.com Fri Mar 12 22:00:27 2004 From: Jeff at OUTBAKTech.com (Jeff Barrows) Date: Fri, 12 Mar 2004 22:00:27 -0600 Subject: [AccessD] Are you part of the 98%? Message-ID: <8DA8776D2F418E46A2A464AC6CE6305092C2@outbaksrv1.outbaktech.com> First thing I thought of was a purple saw Jeff Barrows Outbak Technologies, LLC Racine, WI Phone: (262) 634-0653 Mailto: jeff_developer at hotmail.com www.outbaktech.com From jwelz at hotmail.com Fri Mar 12 22:29:39 2004 From: jwelz at hotmail.com (Jürgen Welz) Date: Fri, 12 Mar 2004 21:29:39 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] Are you part of the 98%? Message-ID: Well. Got one out of two. I'm not in the 98 and I'm not really in the 2. I have to decide if I'm in the 0 percent or the 100 percent. Mathematically It's got to be one amongst the multitudes that make up the 100 percent. I guess it's like I always say. My glass is neither half full nor half empty.. my cup runneth over. Ciao J?rgen Welz Edmonton, Alberta jwelz at hotmail.com _________________________________________________________________ Add photos to your messages with MSN Premium. Get 2 months FREE* http://join.msn.com/?pgmarket=en-ca&page=byoa/prem&xAPID=1994&DI=1034&SU=http://hotmail.com/enca&HL=Market_MSNIS_Taglines From jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com Fri Mar 12 22:54:46 2004 From: jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com (John W. Colby) Date: Fri, 12 Mar 2004 23:54:46 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Are you part of the 98%? In-Reply-To: <8DA8776D2F418E46A2A464AC6CE6305092C2@outbaksrv1.outbaktech.com> Message-ID: rotfl. You are strange indeed! John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Jeff Barrows Sent: Friday, March 12, 2004 11:00 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] Are you part of the 98%? First thing I thought of was a purple saw Jeff Barrows Outbak Technologies, LLC Racine, WI Phone: (262) 634-0653 Mailto: jeff_developer at hotmail.com www.outbaktech.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From john at winhaven.net Fri Mar 12 23:08:49 2004 From: john at winhaven.net (John Bartow) Date: Fri, 12 Mar 2004 23:08:49 -0600 Subject: [AccessD] Are you part of the 98%? In-Reply-To: <405259D2.80905@verizon.net> Message-ID: yellow screwdriver I think the fact that I'm working on Friday night at 11PM is much wierder though! ;o) -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Francisco H Tapia Sent: Friday, March 12, 2004 6:46 PM To: AccessD; Access-L Subject: [AccessD] Are you part of the 98%? Because it's Friday.... -- -Francisco ------------------- Take the test; it is amazing - Let me know what percentage range you fall into - Test Just follow the instructions as quickly as possible. Do not go to the next calculation before you have finished the previous one. You do not need to write or remember the answers, just do it using your mind. You'll be surprised. Start: How much is: 15+6 3+56 89+2 12+53 75+26 25+52 63+32 I know! Calculations are hard work but it's nearly over... Come on, one more... 123+5 QUICK! THINK ABOUT A TOOL AND A COLOR! Scroll further to the bottom... A bit more... You have just thought about a red hammer, haven't you???? If this is not the case, you are among 2% of people who have a "different" if not "abnormal" mind. 98% of the folks would answer a "red hammer" while doing this exercise. -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com Fri Mar 12 23:44:25 2004 From: jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com (John W. Colby) Date: Sat, 13 Mar 2004 00:44:25 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Framework Discussion - Dependent Objects Message-ID: The example database and a word document of this email is on my site - www.colbyconsulting.com Click C2DbFW3G, then the hotlink to C2DbFW3G-DemoCtlClassV3.zip. Eventually all of these emails will be cleaned up by DatabaseAdvisors and published in Many-to-Many. The ultimate purpose of a framework is to give you clearly defined places to go to place properties and behaviors for objects that should be available for future projects. Controls are a prime example of this since they have no built-in class and yet we want to extend their functionality. Thus we build classes for each control type so that we can extend the functionality of that control. To this end in this discussion we are going to add some new functionality to the combo class we defined. The new functionality will be dependent object re-query. Dependent object re-query means that we will create a method of selecting objects (classes) that filter their data based on the currently selected data in the control ? in this case a combo. As the user selects new data in the combo, any dependent objects need to be automatically re-queried so that they display filtered data that depends on this combo. This behavior is generally useful and will demonstrate how we expand a framework to add things that we want our framework to do. Dependent Objects Dependent objects are a common occurrence in Access applications. As an example a form has two combos on it, cboCompany and cboEmployees. As the user selects cboCompany, cboEmployees needs to be filtered to only display the employees for the company just selected. Or perhaps a company is selected and only Addresses for that company are displayed in cboAddress. Dependent objects are usually implemented by referring to the filtering object in a field of the query which pulls data for the dependent object. In other words, cboAddress will have something that looks like ?Like form!frmMyForm!cboCompany? in the criteria of the query for cboAddress or cboEmployees. cboAddress is filtered by or dependent on cboCompany. In order to implement this functionality in our framework we could simply add a dependent object collection directly inside of the control class, then add methods to each control class to add objects to that collection, remove them again when the control class closes, and of course a re-query method to iterate through all of the objects in the collection, calling the re-query method of every object. Notice that this implies that every control that can be dependent on another control must have a public re-query method in its class. The dependent object code The code for this would look something like: In the header of each control class (stripped of all error handling for easy reading): Private mcolDepObj As Collection Collection initialization code in each control class? Initialize event Private Sub Class_Initialize() Set mcolDepObj = New Collection End Sub Cleanup code in each control classes Term() function Public Sub Term() Set mcolDepObj = Nothing End Sub And finally public functions (methods) to handle the dependent object specific stuff: Private Function ColEmpty() While mcolDepObj.Count > 0 mcolDepObj.Remove 1 Wend End Function 'Requery every obj in the dependent object collection Public Function Requery() Dim Obj As Variant For Each Obj In mcolDepObj Obj.Requery Next Obj End Function 'Add multiple objects into the collection Public Function DepObjs(ParamArray lDepObjsArr() As Variant) Dim Obj As Variant For Each Obj In lDepObjsArr mcolDepObj.Add Obj, Obj.Name Next Obj End Function 'Add a single object Public Function Add(item As Variant, key As Variant) mcolDepObj.Add item, key Requery End Function 'Remove a single object Public Function Remove(index As Variant) mcolDepObj.Remove index End Function 'get a count of the objects in the collection Public Function Count() Count = mcolDepObj.Count End Function 'get one specific object back out of the collection Public Function item(index As Variant) item = mcolDepObj.item(index) End Function There?s nothing wrong with doing it that way but we are trying to learn to use classes and another way we could implement this is to build a dependent object class. Then we simply add a dependent object class to each control class that needs one. A huge advantage to using a dedicated class for this is that now we put all of that exact same code in one place, in one class, then simply dim a clsDepObj wherever we need it and call the class? methods. We don?t have to go add this stuff to each and every control class that may have dependent objects. Each control class? code Instead of all that code above in each control class, we now have: In each control class? header (stripped of all error handling for easy reading): Private mclsDepObj As clsDepObj Initialization in each control class? Initialize event. Private Sub Class_Initialize() Set mclsDepObj = New clsDepObj End Sub Cleanup in each control class? Term() Public Sub Term() mclsDepObj.Term Set mclsDepObj = Nothing End Sub And a property get to return a handle to the clsDepObj class instance for this control class? instance Public Property Get clsDepObj() As clsDepObj Set clsDepObj = mclsDepObj End Property You have to admit adding a few lines of code to each control class is way cleaner and easier than adding all of that dependent object code to each control class. Not to mention if we want to add some other dependent object functionality to the framework we just do it in one place instead in every control class. 'Requery the control and then requery all dependent objects Public Function Requery() mcbo.Requery mclsDepObj.Requery End Function One thing that we have to remember is to add a re-query method to every control class that will have a dependent object class. Obviously if this class? control has a data source then we need to re-query this control as well as calling the re-query method of the dependent object class. And finally, when the combo AfterUpdate fires we want to re-query all the objects in our new class? dependent object collection. We do that by calling the mclsDepObj?s re-query method. Withevents! You gotta love them! Private Sub mcbo_AfterUpdate() mclsDepObj.Requery End Sub So now that we have this wonderful new class and functionality, how do we tell the framework to use it? The answer to that lies in the form class? initialization which occurs in the form?s Open event. The form?s built-in class I have modified frmPeopleV3 to add two combos in the form header section. cboCompany and cboEmployee respectively contain data for companies and employees of those companies. Thus the form?s code now looks like: Option Compare Database Option Explicit Our custom form class dclsFrm Public fdclsFrm As dclsFrm And the form?s Open event. Private Sub Form_Open(Cancel As Integer) Set fdclsFrm = New dclsFrm fdclsFrm.Init Me, Me With fdclsFrm.colClasses .item("cboCompany").clsDepObj.Add .item("cboEmployee"), cboEmployee.Name .item("cboCompany").clsDepObj.Add fdclsFrm, Me.Name .item("cboCompany").Requery End With End Sub I know this looks very complicated but we will take it one step at a time and show you what we are doing. The set statement and init look very much like before. We are passing in a reference to the form?s built in class (Me) and a reference to the form itself (Me). Unfortunately in the case of the form, Me refers both to the class as well as the physical form so that can be a little odd at times. Set fdclsFrm = New dclsFrm fdclsFrm.Init Me, Me Next we use a with statement to do a partial resolution of dclsFrm to speed up getting at things. With fdclsFrm.colClasses dclsFrm has a property fdclsFrm.colClasses that returns a pointer to the classes collection. Using that we can now refer to that collection?s properties and methods. We use the .item() method to return something from the collection. .item("cboCompany").clsDepObj.Add .item("cboEmployee"), cboEmployee.Name Remember that in dclsFrm we had a control scanner that found all the controls on the form, built a class for each one, and placed a pointer to each control?s class instance in colClasses. Remember also that we used the control?s name as the key or index into the collection. Thus .item("cboCompany") tells the class to return the item in colClasses that was named ?cboCompany, in other words the control class for the control cboCompany. Thus: .item("cboCompany") is a pointer to a combo class and is exactly equivalent to the more verbose: dim ldclsCbo as dclsCbo set dclsCbo = .item(?cboCompany?) Since we are dealing with a pointer to a combo class we can now call any method or property of that class which is what we do with: .item("cboCompany").clsDepObj.Add We are saying ?for the combo company class, call the clsDepObject method which returns a pointer to the dependent object class, and then call that classes add method. Whew! Just remember that the ?period? denotes a method or property of the class, so you just end up referencing classes with properties that return classes with properties that return classes where you finally use a method of that class. fdclsFrm.colClasses.item(?class name?).clsDepObj.Add By the way, you can set a break point on that line of code and step through the code watching the methods of the various classes being called, returning pointers to the next object, which steps into a method of that and returns a pointer to the next object etc. until you finally ?drill down? to the final .Add method. This stuff is FUN! OK, back to the big picture. With fdclsFrm.colClasses .item("cboCompany").clsDepObj.Add .item("cboEmployee"), cboEmployee.Name .item("cboCompany").clsDepObj.Add fdclsFrm, Me.Name .item("cboCompany").Requery End With We have now told the dclsFrm to add something to the clsDepObj. The ?something? is the class for the cboEmployee. .item("cboCompany").clsDepObj.Add .item("cboEmployee"), cboEmployee.Name Likewise I have made the form itself dependent on the cboCompany so we also have to tell the class for cboEmployee that dclsFrm is a dependent object. .item("cboCompany").clsDepObj.Add fdclsFrm, Me.Name And finally, we have to re-query cboCompany so that it requeries all of its dependent objects. .item("cboCompany").Requery And that, as they say, is that. Reference the form?s colClasses, pulling out the class for cboCompany. Using the clsDepObj method of that class to pull the clsDepObj, use that class? Add method to add an object to the dependent object collection. The object added is the class for cboEmployee and the class for the form itself, fdclsFrm. Once we have added these two items to our dependent object class, re-query the whole structure. I know quite well that this stuff can make your eyes cross when you first look at it but believe me it will become second nature once you have worked with classes, methods and properties, and collections for awhile. Summary By adding a new, rather small class with a single collection variable and a handful of public methods, we have built a method of manipulating dependent objects. Once the class exists, it is a simple matter to add a few lines of code to the class of each control that can have dependent objects and by doing so add dependent object handling to any class that needs it. Probably the biggest stretch was decoding the rather obtuse code in the form?s Open method that ?programs? the specific class that has dependent objects, dclsCbo for cboEmployee, thus telling it to place pointers to two objects in its dependent object handling system. Those two objects are the class for cboEmployee and the class for the form itself. The end result is that when the form initially opens it displays no records because there is no company selected and the form is filtered by or dependent on cboEmployee. However once we select an employee, the combo now has something that can be used to filter the form and the cboEmployee. Since cboCompany calls its clsDepObj?s re-query, the form?s class requeries the form, and cboEmployee?s class requeries cboEmployee. By the way, if cboEmployee had been programmed with dependent objects of its own, cboEmployee?s class would have requeried all of its dependent objects and the process just ripples down the chain automagically. Classes are powerful tools that allow us to encapsulate functionality into a single location, hold all of the variables and code needed to implement necessary behaviors, and provide a single place to go to add new related behaviors if necessary. You can pull this dependent object class into your own framework and with relatively little effort add dependent object processing to your own combos and other controls. Dependent object processing is a trivial application, but imagine if the class had dozens of properties and methods! This encapsulation and portability becomes a prime reason to know how to use classes. John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com From accessd at shaw.ca Sat Mar 13 04:40:08 2004 From: accessd at shaw.ca (Jim Lawrence (AccessD)) Date: Sat, 13 Mar 2004 02:40:08 -0800 Subject: [AccessD] Run a report "invisibly" In-Reply-To: <007b01c40848$8e3c4ac0$0a00a8c0@cx470148a> Message-ID: Hi Barbara: Why not schedule the reports for over-night or at off hours...or have the print job re-directed to a back room printer. One of the old computers could be setup for just running a specific set of print jobs. HTH Jim -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Barbara Ryan Sent: Friday, March 12, 2004 7:42 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Run a report "invisibly" Hi, Gustav... I wish it was a joke!!! The report is pretty complex, with 12 subreports. There are hundreds of calculations performed (in the report as well as all the subreports)--- subtotals of 2 or more subreports used in calculations in other subreports, etc. The report also outputs data to a spreadsheet. The data in the report is (almost) exactly what I need to create an export file requested by the client. However, I need to have a separate interface for the export file function. I would like to execute the report "invisibly" --- to get the data I need --- and then just create my export file. Is it possible to "turn off" the default printer (so the report won't print), execute the report in Normal mode, then turn the default printer back on? Any other suggestions? Thanks, Barb ----- Original Message ----- From: "Gustav Brock" To: "Access Developers discussion and problem solving" Sent: Friday, March 12, 2004 8:51 AM Subject: Re: [AccessD] Run a report "invisibly" > Hi Barbara > > Is this a Friday joke? > Running a report invisibly without printing it?? > > Well, if you insist, you must have some action code when opening or > closing the report; pull that off the report and run it separately. > > /gustav > > > > Is there any way to run a report invisibly (i.e., "behind the scenes", without printing it) in Access 97? The only modes available are Preview, Normal, and Design. > > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From tinanfields at torchlake.com Sat Mar 13 06:51:30 2004 From: tinanfields at torchlake.com (Tina Norris Fields) Date: Sat, 13 Mar 2004 07:51:30 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Are you part of the 98%? References: <405259D2.80905@verizon.net> Message-ID: <405303D2.7080007@torchlake.com> screwdriver - green didn't make it into the 98% - that's okay, never have I already know I am weird - my teenaged daughters made that VERY clear Tina Francisco H Tapia wrote: > > Because it's Friday.... > From HollisVJ at pgdp.usec.com Sat Mar 13 06:58:52 2004 From: HollisVJ at pgdp.usec.com (Hollis,Virginia) Date: Sat, 13 Mar 2004 06:58:52 -0600 Subject: [AccessD] Vendor Table Message-ID: <618EB4D6DDCDD3119B0A00508B6FD37A0CB0D2E7@cntexchange.pgdp.usec.com> Would this be correct? tbl_VendorMain VendorID ContactID RequestorID BuyerID TypeID DateRequested tbl_Vendor VendorID Vendor info stuff tbl_Type TypeID Type stuff etc. OR Should tbl_Vendor have CustomerID? -----Original Message----- From: DWUTKA at marlow.com [mailto:DWUTKA at marlow.com] Sent: Friday, March 12, 2004 10:17 AM To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: RE: [AccessD] Vendor Table Sounds like a PO system. The PurchaseOrder table would be the 'tie in'. You would have a PO Number, then a buyerID, VendorID, and your items. Depends on how complex you want to make it, you should probably have a PO Line Items table. Drew -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Hollis,Virginia Sent: Friday, March 12, 2004 9:01 AM To: 'accessd at databaseadvisors.com' Subject: [AccessD] Vendor Table I am starting a new database - that seems fairly standard, but it is my first time with this type.... This database is to track vendor information & requests. I know I need a table with vendor information, one for the buyer, & one for contacts. The problem is I can't think of how to tie them all together, especially the buyer & requestor with the vendor. The buyer completes the form with all the vendor information, regular fields - name, address, terms. I guess my question is what do I put in a Main? table to tie all the information together? It is mostly just a form completed by the buyer and sent to another department for entry into the suppliers database. But the 2nd department wants to track the requests (where I come in). Virginia -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From tinanfields at torchlake.com Sat Mar 13 07:17:04 2004 From: tinanfields at torchlake.com (Tina Norris Fields) Date: Sat, 13 Mar 2004 08:17:04 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Re: question on normalization References: <5.1.0.14.2.20040312110409.02a9f2d8@pop3.highstream.net> Message-ID: <405309D0.80502@torchlake.com> Hurray for the normalization freaks! Robert, I would like to have your zip-code database for the US. I did download some files from the USPS that I can combine into the tables I need, but if you have that already done, it would save me quite a bit of work. Thank you. Tina P.S. I did get the naming conventions zip - although I had to get it out of quarantine at my ISP - seems there have been some viri running around lately masquerading as zips. T Robert L. Stewart wrote: > Welcome fellow freak. ;-) > > Also, you should technically do this in addition: > > tblCounty > > CountyID Autonumber (PK) > CountyName Text(30) Unique Index > > tblCountyRegion > > CountyRegionID Autonumber (PK) > CountyID Long Integer > RegionID Long Integer > > Unique Index CountyID, RegionID > > Change tblPostalCode to > > tblPostalCode > > PostalCodeID AutoNumber (PK) > PostalCode Text(10) > CityID Long Integer > CountyRegionID Long Integer > > Unique index on PostalCode, CityID, CountyRegionID > > That should take care of it. ;-) > > Robert > > P.S. When you look at some of the ISO standards > for this kins of information, it gets very interesting. > > > At 08:46 AM 3/12/2004 -0600, you wrote: > >> Date: Fri, 12 Mar 2004 08:59:27 -0500 >> From: "John Clark" >> Subject: [AccessD] Re: question on normalization >> To: >> Message-ID: >> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII >> >> This is actually what I was looking at--keeping the zips and the towns >> seperated. >> >> Maybe I'm a closet freak myself--hmmph! >> >> John W Clark >> >> >> >>> rl_stewart at highstream.net 3/12/2004 8:42:37 AM >>> >> >> John, >> >> I have a table for the US with all that >> in it. Do you need it? >> >> For the normalization freaks (like me), >> here is a normalized design: >> >> tblPostalCode >> PostalCodeID AutoNumber (PK) >> PostalCode Text(10) >> CityID Long Integer >> RegionID Long Integer >> >> Unique index on PostalCode, CityID, RegionID >> >> tblCity >> CityID Autonumber (PK) >> CityName Text(30) >> >> Unique Index on CityName >> >> tblRegion >> RegionID Autonumber (PK) >> RegionName Text(30) >> CountryCode Text(2) >> >> Unique Index on RegionName, CountryCode >> >> tblCountry >> CountryCode Text(2) (PK) >> CountryName Text(30) >> >> Unique index on CountryName >> >> >> Robert >> >> P.S. The ISO standard is actually Division, if I remember >> correctly for the way I used region here. > > > From jimdettman at earthlink.net Sat Mar 13 07:32:24 2004 From: jimdettman at earthlink.net (Jim Dettman) Date: Sat, 13 Mar 2004 08:32:24 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Framework Discussion - Dependent Objects In-Reply-To: Message-ID: John, What will be interesting to see is by the time you get to a useable framework what performance will be like. BTW great job with all the articles. Haven't had much time lately to go through them in detail, but I've skimmed most and your doing one heck of a job on it. Jim Dettman Online Computer Services of WNY, Inc. (315) 699-3443 jimdettman at earthlink.net -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of John W. Colby Sent: Saturday, March 13, 2004 12:44 AM To: AccessD Subject: [AccessD] Framework Discussion - Dependent Objects The example database and a word document of this email is on my site - www.colbyconsulting.com Click C2DbFW3G, then the hotlink to C2DbFW3G-DemoCtlClassV3.zip. Eventually all of these emails will be cleaned up by DatabaseAdvisors and published in Many-to-Many. The ultimate purpose of a framework is to give you clearly defined places to go to place properties and behaviors for objects that should be available for future projects. Controls are a prime example of this since they have no built-in class and yet we want to extend their functionality. Thus we build classes for each control type so that we can extend the functionality of that control. To this end in this discussion we are going to add some new functionality to the combo class we defined. The new functionality will be dependent object re-query. Dependent object re-query means that we will create a method of selecting objects (classes) that filter their data based on the currently selected data in the control ? in this case a combo. As the user selects new data in the combo, any dependent objects need to be automatically re-queried so that they display filtered data that depends on this combo. This behavior is generally useful and will demonstrate how we expand a framework to add things that we want our framework to do. Dependent Objects Dependent objects are a common occurrence in Access applications. As an example a form has two combos on it, cboCompany and cboEmployees. As the user selects cboCompany, cboEmployees needs to be filtered to only display the employees for the company just selected. Or perhaps a company is selected and only Addresses for that company are displayed in cboAddress. Dependent objects are usually implemented by referring to the filtering object in a field of the query which pulls data for the dependent object. In other words, cboAddress will have something that looks like ?Like form!frmMyForm!cboCompany? in the criteria of the query for cboAddress or cboEmployees. cboAddress is filtered by or dependent on cboCompany. In order to implement this functionality in our framework we could simply add a dependent object collection directly inside of the control class, then add methods to each control class to add objects to that collection, remove them again when the control class closes, and of course a re-query method to iterate through all of the objects in the collection, calling the re-query method of every object. Notice that this implies that every control that can be dependent on another control must have a public re-query method in its class. The dependent object code The code for this would look something like: In the header of each control class (stripped of all error handling for easy reading): Private mcolDepObj As Collection Collection initialization code in each control class? Initialize event Private Sub Class_Initialize() Set mcolDepObj = New Collection End Sub Cleanup code in each control classes Term() function Public Sub Term() Set mcolDepObj = Nothing End Sub And finally public functions (methods) to handle the dependent object specific stuff: Private Function ColEmpty() While mcolDepObj.Count > 0 mcolDepObj.Remove 1 Wend End Function 'Requery every obj in the dependent object collection Public Function Requery() Dim Obj As Variant For Each Obj In mcolDepObj Obj.Requery Next Obj End Function 'Add multiple objects into the collection Public Function DepObjs(ParamArray lDepObjsArr() As Variant) Dim Obj As Variant For Each Obj In lDepObjsArr mcolDepObj.Add Obj, Obj.Name Next Obj End Function 'Add a single object Public Function Add(item As Variant, key As Variant) mcolDepObj.Add item, key Requery End Function 'Remove a single object Public Function Remove(index As Variant) mcolDepObj.Remove index End Function 'get a count of the objects in the collection Public Function Count() Count = mcolDepObj.Count End Function 'get one specific object back out of the collection Public Function item(index As Variant) item = mcolDepObj.item(index) End Function There?s nothing wrong with doing it that way but we are trying to learn to use classes and another way we could implement this is to build a dependent object class. Then we simply add a dependent object class to each control class that needs one. A huge advantage to using a dedicated class for this is that now we put all of that exact same code in one place, in one class, then simply dim a clsDepObj wherever we need it and call the class? methods. We don?t have to go add this stuff to each and every control class that may have dependent objects. Each control class? code Instead of all that code above in each control class, we now have: In each control class? header (stripped of all error handling for easy reading): Private mclsDepObj As clsDepObj Initialization in each control class? Initialize event. Private Sub Class_Initialize() Set mclsDepObj = New clsDepObj End Sub Cleanup in each control class? Term() Public Sub Term() mclsDepObj.Term Set mclsDepObj = Nothing End Sub And a property get to return a handle to the clsDepObj class instance for this control class? instance Public Property Get clsDepObj() As clsDepObj Set clsDepObj = mclsDepObj End Property You have to admit adding a few lines of code to each control class is way cleaner and easier than adding all of that dependent object code to each control class. Not to mention if we want to add some other dependent object functionality to the framework we just do it in one place instead in every control class. 'Requery the control and then requery all dependent objects Public Function Requery() mcbo.Requery mclsDepObj.Requery End Function One thing that we have to remember is to add a re-query method to every control class that will have a dependent object class. Obviously if this class? control has a data source then we need to re-query this control as well as calling the re-query method of the dependent object class. And finally, when the combo AfterUpdate fires we want to re-query all the objects in our new class? dependent object collection. We do that by calling the mclsDepObj?s re-query method. Withevents! You gotta love them! Private Sub mcbo_AfterUpdate() mclsDepObj.Requery End Sub So now that we have this wonderful new class and functionality, how do we tell the framework to use it? The answer to that lies in the form class? initialization which occurs in the form?s Open event. The form?s built-in class I have modified frmPeopleV3 to add two combos in the form header section. cboCompany and cboEmployee respectively contain data for companies and employees of those companies. Thus the form?s code now looks like: Option Compare Database Option Explicit Our custom form class dclsFrm Public fdclsFrm As dclsFrm And the form?s Open event. Private Sub Form_Open(Cancel As Integer) Set fdclsFrm = New dclsFrm fdclsFrm.Init Me, Me With fdclsFrm.colClasses .item("cboCompany").clsDepObj.Add .item("cboEmployee"), cboEmployee.Name .item("cboCompany").clsDepObj.Add fdclsFrm, Me.Name .item("cboCompany").Requery End With End Sub I know this looks very complicated but we will take it one step at a time and show you what we are doing. The set statement and init look very much like before. We are passing in a reference to the form?s built in class (Me) and a reference to the form itself (Me). Unfortunately in the case of the form, Me refers both to the class as well as the physical form so that can be a little odd at times. Set fdclsFrm = New dclsFrm fdclsFrm.Init Me, Me Next we use a with statement to do a partial resolution of dclsFrm to speed up getting at things. With fdclsFrm.colClasses dclsFrm has a property fdclsFrm.colClasses that returns a pointer to the classes collection. Using that we can now refer to that collection?s properties and methods. We use the .item() method to return something from the collection. .item("cboCompany").clsDepObj.Add .item("cboEmployee"), cboEmployee.Name Remember that in dclsFrm we had a control scanner that found all the controls on the form, built a class for each one, and placed a pointer to each control?s class instance in colClasses. Remember also that we used the control?s name as the key or index into the collection. Thus .item("cboCompany") tells the class to return the item in colClasses that was named ?cboCompany, in other words the control class for the control cboCompany. Thus: .item("cboCompany") is a pointer to a combo class and is exactly equivalent to the more verbose: dim ldclsCbo as dclsCbo set dclsCbo = .item(?cboCompany?) Since we are dealing with a pointer to a combo class we can now call any method or property of that class which is what we do with: .item("cboCompany").clsDepObj.Add We are saying ?for the combo company class, call the clsDepObject method which returns a pointer to the dependent object class, and then call that classes add method. Whew! Just remember that the ?period? denotes a method or property of the class, so you just end up referencing classes with properties that return classes with properties that return classes where you finally use a method of that class. fdclsFrm.colClasses.item(?class name?).clsDepObj.Add By the way, you can set a break point on that line of code and step through the code watching the methods of the various classes being called, returning pointers to the next object, which steps into a method of that and returns a pointer to the next object etc. until you finally ?drill down? to the final .Add method. This stuff is FUN! OK, back to the big picture. With fdclsFrm.colClasses .item("cboCompany").clsDepObj.Add .item("cboEmployee"), cboEmployee.Name .item("cboCompany").clsDepObj.Add fdclsFrm, Me.Name .item("cboCompany").Requery End With We have now told the dclsFrm to add something to the clsDepObj. The ?something? is the class for the cboEmployee. .item("cboCompany").clsDepObj.Add .item("cboEmployee"), cboEmployee.Name Likewise I have made the form itself dependent on the cboCompany so we also have to tell the class for cboEmployee that dclsFrm is a dependent object. .item("cboCompany").clsDepObj.Add fdclsFrm, Me.Name And finally, we have to re-query cboCompany so that it requeries all of its dependent objects. .item("cboCompany").Requery And that, as they say, is that. Reference the form?s colClasses, pulling out the class for cboCompany. Using the clsDepObj method of that class to pull the clsDepObj, use that class? Add method to add an object to the dependent object collection. The object added is the class for cboEmployee and the class for the form itself, fdclsFrm. Once we have added these two items to our dependent object class, re-query the whole structure. I know quite well that this stuff can make your eyes cross when you first look at it but believe me it will become second nature once you have worked with classes, methods and properties, and collections for awhile. Summary By adding a new, rather small class with a single collection variable and a handful of public methods, we have built a method of manipulating dependent objects. Once the class exists, it is a simple matter to add a few lines of code to the class of each control that can have dependent objects and by doing so add dependent object handling to any class that needs it. Probably the biggest stretch was decoding the rather obtuse code in the form?s Open method that ?programs? the specific class that has dependent objects, dclsCbo for cboEmployee, thus telling it to place pointers to two objects in its dependent object handling system. Those two objects are the class for cboEmployee and the class for the form itself. The end result is that when the form initially opens it displays no records because there is no company selected and the form is filtered by or dependent on cboEmployee. However once we select an employee, the combo now has something that can be used to filter the form and the cboEmployee. Since cboCompany calls its clsDepObj?s re-query, the form?s class requeries the form, and cboEmployee?s class requeries cboEmployee. By the way, if cboEmployee had been programmed with dependent objects of its own, cboEmployee?s class would have requeried all of its dependent objects and the process just ripples down the chain automagically. Classes are powerful tools that allow us to encapsulate functionality into a single location, hold all of the variables and code needed to implement necessary behaviors, and provide a single place to go to add new related behaviors if necessary. You can pull this dependent object class into your own framework and with relatively little effort add dependent object processing to your own combos and other controls. Dependent object processing is a trivial application, but imagine if the class had dozens of properties and methods! This encapsulation and portability becomes a prime reason to know how to use classes. John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From tinanfields at torchlake.com Sat Mar 13 07:45:01 2004 From: tinanfields at torchlake.com (Tina Norris Fields) Date: Sat, 13 Mar 2004 08:45:01 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] question on normalization References: Message-ID: <4053105D.8060108@torchlake.com> Okay, I just wonder what happened to the original intent of Zip codes - wasn't that to uniquely identify delivery locations? That certainly is what I remember - unique codes to make it possible for automatic and correct mail sorting by machines. Hmmmmmmmmmmmm Tina Charlotte Foust wrote: >Unfortunately, while zip codes are supposed to be unique, they may be >shared among several small towns or a town may have multiple zip codes. >Some buildings even have unique zip codes, but generally zip codes >belong to post offices. I would say they were not a good candidate for >a primary key in dealing with addresses. I've worked with postal >databases and seen some of the "duplicate" zips, where several small >towns share a post office and a zip code. A further complication is the >+four extension. > >Charlotte Foust > >-----Original Message----- >From: John Clark [mailto:John.Clark at niagaracounty.com] >Sent: Friday, March 12, 2004 7:03 AM >To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com >Subject: RE: [AccessD] question on normalization > > >But, in my case, it would be OK then? I will not have an issue with them >being unique. > >JW Clark > > > >>>>ssharkins at bellsouth.net 3/12/2004 9:55:22 AM >>> >>>> >>>> > > >As a sidebar--sort of--why can't the zip itself be a primary key? > >========We're told that ZIP codes aren't unique -- most are, but there >those few... I've not encountered it myself, but that's what we're told. >;) > >Susan H. > > > From jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com Sat Mar 13 08:18:00 2004 From: jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com (John W. Colby) Date: Sat, 13 Mar 2004 09:18:00 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Framework Discussion - Dependent Objects In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Jim, >What will be interesting to see is by the time you get to a useable framework what performance will be like. I have a usable framework already, in fact I am looking at my old to find subjects for these articles. The performance is simply not an issue. As I mentioned once before I did some timings way back with my old framework. I had a very complex form with literally close to a hundred controls loading classes. I timed the control scanner and what I discovered is that with an old Pentium (100 MHz? 150 MHz?) and 128 mb of ram the scanner tool under 1/2 millisecond to load each class instance. Thus a form loading 100 classes took 50 milliseconds to load the classes. When a bound form is loading combos and the form's data, the form's data load time thoroughly swamps the picture. Would you notice an additional 1/50th of a second for the framework to do it's thing? Visual Basic is a reasonably fast interpreter and the time to execute programs usually just doesn't enter the picture in a database application where queries and recordset manipulations are slowing things down. And of course our computers get faster and faster. John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Jim Dettman Sent: Saturday, March 13, 2004 8:32 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] Framework Discussion - Dependent Objects John, What will be interesting to see is by the time you get to a useable framework what performance will be like. BTW great job with all the articles. Haven't had much time lately to go through them in detail, but I've skimmed most and your doing one heck of a job on it. Jim Dettman Online Computer Services of WNY, Inc. (315) 699-3443 jimdettman at earthlink.net -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of John W. Colby Sent: Saturday, March 13, 2004 12:44 AM To: AccessD Subject: [AccessD] Framework Discussion - Dependent Objects The example database and a word document of this email is on my site - www.colbyconsulting.com Click C2DbFW3G, then the hotlink to C2DbFW3G-DemoCtlClassV3.zip. Eventually all of these emails will be cleaned up by DatabaseAdvisors and published in Many-to-Many. The ultimate purpose of a framework is to give you clearly defined places to go to place properties and behaviors for objects that should be available for future projects. Controls are a prime example of this since they have no built-in class and yet we want to extend their functionality. Thus we build classes for each control type so that we can extend the functionality of that control. To this end in this discussion we are going to add some new functionality to the combo class we defined. The new functionality will be dependent object re-query. Dependent object re-query means that we will create a method of selecting objects (classes) that filter their data based on the currently selected data in the control ? in this case a combo. As the user selects new data in the combo, any dependent objects need to be automatically re-queried so that they display filtered data that depends on this combo. This behavior is generally useful and will demonstrate how we expand a framework to add things that we want our framework to do. Dependent Objects Dependent objects are a common occurrence in Access applications. As an example a form has two combos on it, cboCompany and cboEmployees. As the user selects cboCompany, cboEmployees needs to be filtered to only display the employees for the company just selected. Or perhaps a company is selected and only Addresses for that company are displayed in cboAddress. Dependent objects are usually implemented by referring to the filtering object in a field of the query which pulls data for the dependent object. In other words, cboAddress will have something that looks like ?Like form!frmMyForm!cboCompany? in the criteria of the query for cboAddress or cboEmployees. cboAddress is filtered by or dependent on cboCompany. In order to implement this functionality in our framework we could simply add a dependent object collection directly inside of the control class, then add methods to each control class to add objects to that collection, remove them again when the control class closes, and of course a re-query method to iterate through all of the objects in the collection, calling the re-query method of every object. Notice that this implies that every control that can be dependent on another control must have a public re-query method in its class. The dependent object code The code for this would look something like: In the header of each control class (stripped of all error handling for easy reading): Private mcolDepObj As Collection Collection initialization code in each control class? Initialize event Private Sub Class_Initialize() Set mcolDepObj = New Collection End Sub Cleanup code in each control classes Term() function Public Sub Term() Set mcolDepObj = Nothing End Sub And finally public functions (methods) to handle the dependent object specific stuff: Private Function ColEmpty() While mcolDepObj.Count > 0 mcolDepObj.Remove 1 Wend End Function 'Requery every obj in the dependent object collection Public Function Requery() Dim Obj As Variant For Each Obj In mcolDepObj Obj.Requery Next Obj End Function 'Add multiple objects into the collection Public Function DepObjs(ParamArray lDepObjsArr() As Variant) Dim Obj As Variant For Each Obj In lDepObjsArr mcolDepObj.Add Obj, Obj.Name Next Obj End Function 'Add a single object Public Function Add(item As Variant, key As Variant) mcolDepObj.Add item, key Requery End Function 'Remove a single object Public Function Remove(index As Variant) mcolDepObj.Remove index End Function 'get a count of the objects in the collection Public Function Count() Count = mcolDepObj.Count End Function 'get one specific object back out of the collection Public Function item(index As Variant) item = mcolDepObj.item(index) End Function There?s nothing wrong with doing it that way but we are trying to learn to use classes and another way we could implement this is to build a dependent object class. Then we simply add a dependent object class to each control class that needs one. A huge advantage to using a dedicated class for this is that now we put all of that exact same code in one place, in one class, then simply dim a clsDepObj wherever we need it and call the class? methods. We don?t have to go add this stuff to each and every control class that may have dependent objects. Each control class? code Instead of all that code above in each control class, we now have: In each control class? header (stripped of all error handling for easy reading): Private mclsDepObj As clsDepObj Initialization in each control class? Initialize event. Private Sub Class_Initialize() Set mclsDepObj = New clsDepObj End Sub Cleanup in each control class? Term() Public Sub Term() mclsDepObj.Term Set mclsDepObj = Nothing End Sub And a property get to return a handle to the clsDepObj class instance for this control class? instance Public Property Get clsDepObj() As clsDepObj Set clsDepObj = mclsDepObj End Property You have to admit adding a few lines of code to each control class is way cleaner and easier than adding all of that dependent object code to each control class. Not to mention if we want to add some other dependent object functionality to the framework we just do it in one place instead in every control class. 'Requery the control and then requery all dependent objects Public Function Requery() mcbo.Requery mclsDepObj.Requery End Function One thing that we have to remember is to add a re-query method to every control class that will have a dependent object class. Obviously if this class? control has a data source then we need to re-query this control as well as calling the re-query method of the dependent object class. And finally, when the combo AfterUpdate fires we want to re-query all the objects in our new class? dependent object collection. We do that by calling the mclsDepObj?s re-query method. Withevents! You gotta love them! Private Sub mcbo_AfterUpdate() mclsDepObj.Requery End Sub So now that we have this wonderful new class and functionality, how do we tell the framework to use it? The answer to that lies in the form class? initialization which occurs in the form?s Open event. The form?s built-in class I have modified frmPeopleV3 to add two combos in the form header section. cboCompany and cboEmployee respectively contain data for companies and employees of those companies. Thus the form?s code now looks like: Option Compare Database Option Explicit Our custom form class dclsFrm Public fdclsFrm As dclsFrm And the form?s Open event. Private Sub Form_Open(Cancel As Integer) Set fdclsFrm = New dclsFrm fdclsFrm.Init Me, Me With fdclsFrm.colClasses .item("cboCompany").clsDepObj.Add .item("cboEmployee"), cboEmployee.Name .item("cboCompany").clsDepObj.Add fdclsFrm, Me.Name .item("cboCompany").Requery End With End Sub I know this looks very complicated but we will take it one step at a time and show you what we are doing. The set statement and init look very much like before. We are passing in a reference to the form?s built in class (Me) and a reference to the form itself (Me). Unfortunately in the case of the form, Me refers both to the class as well as the physical form so that can be a little odd at times. Set fdclsFrm = New dclsFrm fdclsFrm.Init Me, Me Next we use a with statement to do a partial resolution of dclsFrm to speed up getting at things. With fdclsFrm.colClasses dclsFrm has a property fdclsFrm.colClasses that returns a pointer to the classes collection. Using that we can now refer to that collection?s properties and methods. We use the .item() method to return something from the collection. .item("cboCompany").clsDepObj.Add .item("cboEmployee"), cboEmployee.Name Remember that in dclsFrm we had a control scanner that found all the controls on the form, built a class for each one, and placed a pointer to each control?s class instance in colClasses. Remember also that we used the control?s name as the key or index into the collection. Thus .item("cboCompany") tells the class to return the item in colClasses that was named ?cboCompany, in other words the control class for the control cboCompany. Thus: .item("cboCompany") is a pointer to a combo class and is exactly equivalent to the more verbose: dim ldclsCbo as dclsCbo set dclsCbo = .item(?cboCompany?) Since we are dealing with a pointer to a combo class we can now call any method or property of that class which is what we do with: .item("cboCompany").clsDepObj.Add We are saying ?for the combo company class, call the clsDepObject method which returns a pointer to the dependent object class, and then call that classes add method. Whew! Just remember that the ?period? denotes a method or property of the class, so you just end up referencing classes with properties that return classes with properties that return classes where you finally use a method of that class. fdclsFrm.colClasses.item(?class name?).clsDepObj.Add By the way, you can set a break point on that line of code and step through the code watching the methods of the various classes being called, returning pointers to the next object, which steps into a method of that and returns a pointer to the next object etc. until you finally ?drill down? to the final .Add method. This stuff is FUN! OK, back to the big picture. With fdclsFrm.colClasses .item("cboCompany").clsDepObj.Add .item("cboEmployee"), cboEmployee.Name .item("cboCompany").clsDepObj.Add fdclsFrm, Me.Name .item("cboCompany").Requery End With We have now told the dclsFrm to add something to the clsDepObj. The ?something? is the class for the cboEmployee. .item("cboCompany").clsDepObj.Add .item("cboEmployee"), cboEmployee.Name Likewise I have made the form itself dependent on the cboCompany so we also have to tell the class for cboEmployee that dclsFrm is a dependent object. .item("cboCompany").clsDepObj.Add fdclsFrm, Me.Name And finally, we have to re-query cboCompany so that it requeries all of its dependent objects. .item("cboCompany").Requery And that, as they say, is that. Reference the form?s colClasses, pulling out the class for cboCompany. Using the clsDepObj method of that class to pull the clsDepObj, use that class? Add method to add an object to the dependent object collection. The object added is the class for cboEmployee and the class for the form itself, fdclsFrm. Once we have added these two items to our dependent object class, re-query the whole structure. I know quite well that this stuff can make your eyes cross when you first look at it but believe me it will become second nature once you have worked with classes, methods and properties, and collections for awhile. Summary By adding a new, rather small class with a single collection variable and a handful of public methods, we have built a method of manipulating dependent objects. Once the class exists, it is a simple matter to add a few lines of code to the class of each control that can have dependent objects and by doing so add dependent object handling to any class that needs it. Probably the biggest stretch was decoding the rather obtuse code in the form?s Open method that ?programs? the specific class that has dependent objects, dclsCbo for cboEmployee, thus telling it to place pointers to two objects in its dependent object handling system. Those two objects are the class for cboEmployee and the class for the form itself. The end result is that when the form initially opens it displays no records because there is no company selected and the form is filtered by or dependent on cboEmployee. However once we select an employee, the combo now has something that can be used to filter the form and the cboEmployee. Since cboCompany calls its clsDepObj?s re-query, the form?s class requeries the form, and cboEmployee?s class requeries cboEmployee. By the way, if cboEmployee had been programmed with dependent objects of its own, cboEmployee?s class would have requeried all of its dependent objects and the process just ripples down the chain automagically. Classes are powerful tools that allow us to encapsulate functionality into a single location, hold all of the variables and code needed to implement necessary behaviors, and provide a single place to go to add new related behaviors if necessary. You can pull this dependent object class into your own framework and with relatively little effort add dependent object processing to your own combos and other controls. Dependent object processing is a trivial application, but imagine if the class had dozens of properties and methods! This encapsulation and portability becomes a prime reason to know how to use classes. John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From fahooper at trapo.com Sat Mar 13 09:12:28 2004 From: fahooper at trapo.com (Fred Hooper) Date: Sat, 13 Mar 2004 10:12:28 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] RE: Detect form height In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <000501c4090d$99cf9700$f0bffea9@fred> I want to thank the person who answered my question. I apologize for not thanking you immediately. I was excited to receive a quick, perfect answer and implemented your suggestion, deleting your email without thinking. Fred Hooper From HollisVJ at pgdp.usec.com Sat Mar 13 09:19:00 2004 From: HollisVJ at pgdp.usec.com (Hollis,Virginia) Date: Sat, 13 Mar 2004 09:19:00 -0600 Subject: [AccessD] Set up tables - Please Help Message-ID: <618EB4D6DDCDD3119B0A00508B6FD37A0CB0D2E9@cntexchange.pgdp.usec.com> Can someone please help me - I am having the hardest time setting up my tables for this new vendor program. I have tried making a main vendor table but when I try to put the data all together, my form is blank and you can't add any records. I am so frustrated with this whole thing. I keep telling myself it shouldn't be this hard! A request has a buyer, requestor, and a Vendor. A Vendor has a contact, type of business, and an account type. Sounds so easy.... well, every way I try I get ZERO data. Virginia From jwelz at hotmail.com Sat Mar 13 10:04:16 2004 From: jwelz at hotmail.com (Jürgen Welz) Date: Sat, 13 Mar 2004 09:04:16 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] Combo on Continuous Form Message-ID: I just rewrote that sample I sent you in order to work with the textbox displaying a fleld in its recordsource rather than using a dlookup. The recordsource had to be revised to join the the Contact table in order to make the contact name field available. The result looks a bit smoother because it's faster. It is how I talked about doing it on the list because that's how I thought I had done it but it turns out I didn't have the sense to do it a more efficient way back when I first wrote this approach. It's an easy change to make but I'd be happy to rezip the file and sent it to you again with the modification. This time it will be an A2k file (what I have at home) with the unnecessary references removed. Let me know if you want me to send the revised version. Ciao J?rgen Welz Edmonton, Alberta jwelz at hotmail.com _________________________________________________________________ MSN Premium includes powerful parental controls and get 2 months FREE* http://join.msn.com/?pgmarket=en-ca&page=byoa/prem&xAPID=1994&DI=1034&SU=http://hotmail.com/enca&HL=Market_MSNIS_Taglines From ssharkins at bellsouth.net Sat Mar 13 10:04:36 2004 From: ssharkins at bellsouth.net (Susan Harkins) Date: Sat, 13 Mar 2004 11:04:36 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Set up tables - Please Help In-Reply-To: <618EB4D6DDCDD3119B0A00508B6FD37A0CB0D2E9@cntexchange.pgdp.usec.com> Message-ID: <20040313160451.HCCL13717.imf16aec.mail.bellsouth.net@SUSANONE> Virginia, is the data basically the same for everyone? What kind of data are you storing for each buyer, requestor, and vendor because you could just dump them all in one table and then flag each as a buyer, requestor or vendor using some kind of id value. That's one way to go. Or, you could have a separate table for each -- and you should if the data is significantly different for each to avoid all those blanks where data doesn't apply to one type. So, do you have a separate table for the following as well: contracts, business type, and account type? The two latter sound like classic lookup tables. Susan H. Can someone please help me - I am having the hardest time setting up my tables for this new vendor program. I have tried making a main vendor table but when I try to put the data all together, my form is blank and you can't add any records. I am so frustrated with this whole thing. I keep telling myself it shouldn't be this hard! A request has a buyer, requestor, and a Vendor. A Vendor has a contact, type of business, and an account type. Sounds so easy.... well, every way I try I get ZERO data. Virginia -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From HollisVJ at pgdp.usec.com Sat Mar 13 10:29:05 2004 From: HollisVJ at pgdp.usec.com (Hollis,Virginia) Date: Sat, 13 Mar 2004 10:29:05 -0600 Subject: [AccessD] Set up tables - Please Help Message-ID: <618EB4D6DDCDD3119B0A00508B6FD37A0CB0D2EC@cntexchange.pgdp.usec.com> I have one table for each - tbl_Buyer, tbl_Contacts, tbl_Requestor, tbl_TypeBusiness, tbl_Vendor, tbl_VendorMain, tbl_Accounts. Tables buyer, vendor contacts, requestor store just the typical name, phone number, etc. tbl_TypeBusiness is one that confuses me - I need it linked to tbl_Vendor so when you select the vendor the different types are selected. A vendor can be any combination of 15 different types. When I set up tbl_VendorMain with: RequestID TypeID VendorID ContactID BuyerID RequestorID DateRequested. Then join everything to this table, I get data on my form. But if I divide it out the way I thought it should be, and join tbl_Buyer & tbl_Requestor to tbl_VendorMain. Then tbl_VendorMain to tbl_Vendor by RequestID & tbl_Contacts to tbl_Vendor by VendorID I don't get any data in the form. To say the least - I have made a mess of it all. Virginia -----Original Message----- From: Susan Harkins [mailto:ssharkins at bellsouth.net] Sent: Saturday, March 13, 2004 10:05 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: [AccessD] Set up tables - Please Help Virginia, is the data basically the same for everyone? What kind of data are you storing for each buyer, requestor, and vendor because you could just dump them all in one table and then flag each as a buyer, requestor or vendor using some kind of id value. That's one way to go. Or, you could have a separate table for each -- and you should if the data is significantly different for each to avoid all those blanks where data doesn't apply to one type. So, do you have a separate table for the following as well: contracts, business type, and account type? The two latter sound like classic lookup tables. Susan H. Can someone please help me - I am having the hardest time setting up my tables for this new vendor program. I have tried making a main vendor table but when I try to put the data all together, my form is blank and you can't add any records. I am so frustrated with this whole thing. I keep telling myself it shouldn't be this hard! A request has a buyer, requestor, and a Vendor. A Vendor has a contact, type of business, and an account type. Sounds so easy.... well, every way I try I get ZERO data. Virginia -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From ssharkins at bellsouth.net Sat Mar 13 10:38:07 2004 From: ssharkins at bellsouth.net (Susan Harkins) Date: Sat, 13 Mar 2004 11:38:07 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Set up tables - Please Help In-Reply-To: <618EB4D6DDCDD3119B0A00508B6FD37A0CB0D2EC@cntexchange.pgdp.usec.com> Message-ID: <20040313163803.GGEN18468.imf24aec.mail.bellsouth.net@SUSANONE> What's the difference between tbl_Vendor and tbl_VendorMain? Susan H. I have one table for each - tbl_Buyer, tbl_Contacts, tbl_Requestor, tbl_TypeBusiness, tbl_Vendor, tbl_VendorMain, tbl_Accounts. Tables buyer, vendor contacts, requestor store just the typical name, phone number, etc. From HollisVJ at pgdp.usec.com Sat Mar 13 10:45:43 2004 From: HollisVJ at pgdp.usec.com (Hollis,Virginia) Date: Sat, 13 Mar 2004 10:45:43 -0600 Subject: [AccessD] Set up tables - Please Help Message-ID: <618EB4D6DDCDD3119B0A00508B6FD37A0CB0D2ED@cntexchange.pgdp.usec.com> tbl_Vendor contains all the data for the vendor; address, company name, etc. tbl_VendorMain could really be named tbl_RequestMain. tbl_VendorMain is where I thought I would store the combination of the data - VendorID, ContactID, BuyerID, RequestorID, DateRequested. -----Original Message----- From: Susan Harkins [mailto:ssharkins at bellsouth.net] Sent: Saturday, March 13, 2004 10:38 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: [AccessD] Set up tables - Please Help What's the difference between tbl_Vendor and tbl_VendorMain? Susan H. I have one table for each - tbl_Buyer, tbl_Contacts, tbl_Requestor, tbl_TypeBusiness, tbl_Vendor, tbl_VendorMain, tbl_Accounts. Tables buyer, vendor contacts, requestor store just the typical name, phone number, etc. -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From ssharkins at bellsouth.net Sat Mar 13 10:46:58 2004 From: ssharkins at bellsouth.net (Susan Harkins) Date: Sat, 13 Mar 2004 11:46:58 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Set up tables - Please Help In-Reply-To: <618EB4D6DDCDD3119B0A00508B6FD37A0CB0D2EC@cntexchange.pgdp.usec.com> Message-ID: <20040313164657.GIVM18468.imf24aec.mail.bellsouth.net@SUSANONE> Virginia -- I'm assuming all those ID fields are foreign keys. Can you send a shot of your Relationships window? Should tbl_VendorMain really be a query? I'm not sure what new data you're actually storing -- looks like just that DateRequested. Susan H. -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Hollis,Virginia Sent: Saturday, March 13, 2004 11:29 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: [AccessD] Set up tables - Please Help I have one table for each - tbl_Buyer, tbl_Contacts, tbl_Requestor, tbl_TypeBusiness, tbl_Vendor, tbl_VendorMain, tbl_Accounts. Tables buyer, vendor contacts, requestor store just the typical name, phone number, etc. tbl_TypeBusiness is one that confuses me - I need it linked to tbl_Vendor so when you select the vendor the different types are selected. A vendor can be any combination of 15 different types. When I set up tbl_VendorMain with: RequestID TypeID VendorID ContactID BuyerID RequestorID DateRequested. Then join everything to this table, I get data on my form. But if I divide it out the way I thought it should be, and join tbl_Buyer & tbl_Requestor to tbl_VendorMain. Then tbl_VendorMain to tbl_Vendor by RequestID & tbl_Contacts to tbl_Vendor by VendorID I don't get any data in the form. To say the least - I have made a mess of it all. Virginia -----Original Message----- From: Susan Harkins [mailto:ssharkins at bellsouth.net] Sent: Saturday, March 13, 2004 10:05 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: [AccessD] Set up tables - Please Help Virginia, is the data basically the same for everyone? What kind of data are you storing for each buyer, requestor, and vendor because you could just dump them all in one table and then flag each as a buyer, requestor or vendor using some kind of id value. That's one way to go. Or, you could have a separate table for each -- and you should if the data is significantly different for each to avoid all those blanks where data doesn't apply to one type. So, do you have a separate table for the following as well: contracts, business type, and account type? The two latter sound like classic lookup tables. Susan H. Can someone please help me - I am having the hardest time setting up my tables for this new vendor program. I have tried making a main vendor table but when I try to put the data all together, my form is blank and you can't add any records. I am so frustrated with this whole thing. I keep telling myself it shouldn't be this hard! A request has a buyer, requestor, and a Vendor. A Vendor has a contact, type of business, and an account type. Sounds so easy.... well, every way I try I get ZERO data. Virginia -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From jwelz at hotmail.com Sat Mar 13 10:53:04 2004 From: jwelz at hotmail.com (Jürgen Welz) Date: Sat, 13 Mar 2004 09:53:04 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] Combo on Continuous Form Message-ID: No Archive Oops. This was supposed to be off list. J?rgen Welz jwelz at hotmail.com >From: "J?rgen Welz" > >I just rewrote that sample I sent you in order to work with the textbox >displaying a fleld in its recordsource rather than using a dlookup. The >recordsource had to be revised to join the the Contact table in order to >make the contact name field available. The result looks a bit smoother >because it's faster. It is how I talked about doing it on the list because >that's how I thought I had done it but it turns out I didn't have the sense >to do it a more efficient way back when I first wrote this approach. It's >an easy change to make but I'd be happy to rezip the file and sent it to >you again with the modification. This time it will be an A2k file (what I >have at home) with the unnecessary references removed. Let me know if you >want me to send the revised version. > > > >Ciao >J?rgen Welz >Edmonton, Alberta >jwelz at hotmail.com _________________________________________________________________ http://join.msn.com/?pgmarket=en-ca&page=byoa/prem&xAPID=1994&DI=1034&SU=http://hotmail.com/enca&HL=Market_MSNIS_Taglines From HollisVJ at pgdp.usec.com Sat Mar 13 10:56:54 2004 From: HollisVJ at pgdp.usec.com (Hollis,Virginia) Date: Sat, 13 Mar 2004 10:56:54 -0600 Subject: [AccessD] Set up tables - Please Help Message-ID: <618EB4D6DDCDD3119B0A00508B6FD37A0CB0D2EE@cntexchange.pgdp.usec.com> Ok, I will send off line so it doesn't take up room & attachments on the list. -----Original Message----- From: Susan Harkins [mailto:ssharkins at bellsouth.net] Sent: Saturday, March 13, 2004 10:47 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: [AccessD] Set up tables - Please Help Virginia -- I'm assuming all those ID fields are foreign keys. Can you send a shot of your Relationships window? Should tbl_VendorMain really be a query? I'm not sure what new data you're actually storing -- looks like just that DateRequested. Susan H. -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Hollis,Virginia Sent: Saturday, March 13, 2004 11:29 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: [AccessD] Set up tables - Please Help I have one table for each - tbl_Buyer, tbl_Contacts, tbl_Requestor, tbl_TypeBusiness, tbl_Vendor, tbl_VendorMain, tbl_Accounts. Tables buyer, vendor contacts, requestor store just the typical name, phone number, etc. tbl_TypeBusiness is one that confuses me - I need it linked to tbl_Vendor so when you select the vendor the different types are selected. A vendor can be any combination of 15 different types. When I set up tbl_VendorMain with: RequestID TypeID VendorID ContactID BuyerID RequestorID DateRequested. Then join everything to this table, I get data on my form. But if I divide it out the way I thought it should be, and join tbl_Buyer & tbl_Requestor to tbl_VendorMain. Then tbl_VendorMain to tbl_Vendor by RequestID & tbl_Contacts to tbl_Vendor by VendorID I don't get any data in the form. To say the least - I have made a mess of it all. Virginia -----Original Message----- From: Susan Harkins [mailto:ssharkins at bellsouth.net] Sent: Saturday, March 13, 2004 10:05 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: [AccessD] Set up tables - Please Help Virginia, is the data basically the same for everyone? What kind of data are you storing for each buyer, requestor, and vendor because you could just dump them all in one table and then flag each as a buyer, requestor or vendor using some kind of id value. That's one way to go. Or, you could have a separate table for each -- and you should if the data is significantly different for each to avoid all those blanks where data doesn't apply to one type. So, do you have a separate table for the following as well: contracts, business type, and account type? The two latter sound like classic lookup tables. Susan H. Can someone please help me - I am having the hardest time setting up my tables for this new vendor program. I have tried making a main vendor table but when I try to put the data all together, my form is blank and you can't add any records. I am so frustrated with this whole thing. I keep telling myself it shouldn't be this hard! A request has a buyer, requestor, and a Vendor. A Vendor has a contact, type of business, and an account type. Sounds so easy.... well, every way I try I get ZERO data. Virginia -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From ssharkins at bellsouth.net Sat Mar 13 11:02:37 2004 From: ssharkins at bellsouth.net (Susan Harkins) Date: Sat, 13 Mar 2004 12:02:37 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Set up tables - Please Help In-Reply-To: <618EB4D6DDCDD3119B0A00508B6FD37A0CB0D2ED@cntexchange.pgdp.usec.com> Message-ID: <20040313170233.EVAJ17649.imf25aec.mail.bellsouth.net@SUSANONE> By "store the combination of the data" are you saying that the data is already stored in other tables and you're just pulling it into a new table? Could DateRequested by stored in tbl_Request? Is there a tbl_Request? Susan H. tbl_Vendor contains all the data for the vendor; address, company name, etc. tbl_VendorMain could really be named tbl_RequestMain. tbl_VendorMain is where I thought I would store the combination of the data - VendorID, ContactID, BuyerID, RequestorID, DateRequested. -----Original Message----- From: Susan Harkins [mailto:ssharkins at bellsouth.net] Sent: Saturday, March 13, 2004 10:38 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: [AccessD] Set up tables - Please Help What's the difference between tbl_Vendor and tbl_VendorMain? Susan H. I have one table for each - tbl_Buyer, tbl_Contacts, tbl_Requestor, tbl_TypeBusiness, tbl_Vendor, tbl_VendorMain, tbl_Accounts. Tables buyer, vendor contacts, requestor store just the typical name, phone number, etc. -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From adtp at touchtelindia.net Sat Mar 13 11:01:22 2004 From: adtp at touchtelindia.net (A.D.Tejpal) Date: Sat, 13 Mar 2004 22:31:22 +0530 Subject: [AccessD] Combo on Continuous Form References: Message-ID: <002e01c4091d$0caf1980$0a1865cb@winxp> Jurgen, I would be glad to have a copy. Thanks in advance. Regards, A.D.Tejpal -------------- ----- Original Message ----- From: J?rgen Welz To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Sent: Saturday, March 13, 2004 21:34 Subject: RE: [AccessD] Combo on Continuous Form I just rewrote that sample I sent you in order to work with the textbox displaying a fleld in its recordsource rather than using a dlookup. The recordsource had to be revised to join the the Contact table in order to make the contact name field available. The result looks a bit smoother because it's faster. It is how I talked about doing it on the list because that's how I thought I had done it but it turns out I didn't have the sense to do it a more efficient way back when I first wrote this approach. It's an easy change to make but I'd be happy to rezip the file and sent it to you again with the modification. This time it will be an A2k file (what I have at home) with the unnecessary references removed. Let me know if you want me to send the revised version. Ciao J?rgen Welz Edmonton, Alberta jwelz at hotmail.com From artful at rogers.com Sat Mar 13 14:44:13 2004 From: artful at rogers.com (Arthur Fuller) Date: Sat, 13 Mar 2004 12:44:13 -0800 Subject: [AccessD] ParamArray problem In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <009d01c4093b$f68a0f60$6501a8c0@rock> First of all, why on earth would you want to pass a class? I'm a little dim but can't imagine a circumstance where that would prove useful. Even in the factory design pattern, you don't pass an actual class. While pondering this, I thought for a moment that one approach might be to create a collection. One cool thing about collections is that the members need have almost nothing in common. I was thinking about this as a way around the tight coupling of the dependent objects class that JC was proposing. I didn't try it, JC, but could that approach work? You could have a collection of dependent objects, with one "parent" and as many "children" as depend on that parent. None of the controls would need to know the name of any other. Just a thought.... Arthur -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of John W. Colby Sent: Thursday, March 11, 2004 5:14 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] ParamArray problem Sorry, meant to say: >Indeed you CAN'T dim the array as specific class types AFAICT. If you look up ParamArrays in help it says that you can type the array as any of the built-in types including objects, but not custom types such as classes. John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of John W. Colby Sent: Thursday, March 11, 2004 7:17 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] ParamArray problem >Haven't looked into the Paramarray question as I've always passed >arrays of strong types or of variants. In this case the array will be passing in objects, i.e. classes, but the class instances can be a combo class, a text class, a list class etc. Since each is a different class, I pass them as objects. Indeed you dim the array as specific class types AFAICT. John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of J?rgen Welz Sent: Thursday, March 11, 2004 1:05 AM To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: RE: [AccessD] ParamArray problem In .NET, if you pass an object ByVal, it is still passed ByRef. No error or notification. It just changes it. Haven't looked into the Paramarray question as I've always passed arrays of strong types or of variants. Ciao J?rgen Welz Edmonton, Alberta jwelz at hotmail.com >From: bruce_bruen at mlc.com.au > > > > > > >"for each next" to iterate the array and found something >in an "empty" array." > >Now that does sound strange. > >The VB help for .NET certainly says that FOREACH should not execute on >a paramarray with .length=0 However, prior to .NET all paramarrays were >passed as byrefs (hence my comment on them being heap pointers) in >.NET they are always byvals. > >Looks like there may be a situation in the VBA where the pointer is >initialised to a "random" heap pointer under some circumstances - that >would be bloody great hole! > >have fun >B > > > > "John W. Colby" > > > > > > >I also seem to remember that passing objects in paramarrays is a nono > >you >can only pass value items (???) > >Help says objects can be passed, or at least the array can be declared >as type object. > >And I was using a "for each next" to iterate the array and found >something in an "empty" array. > >John W. Colby >www.ColbyConsulting.com > >-----Original Message----- >From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com >[mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of >bruce_bruen at mlc.com.au >Sent: Wednesday, March 10, 2004 11:58 PM >To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving >Subject: Re: [AccessD] ParamArray problem > > > > > > >John, > >What you've written it looks right, bu I must ask how do you know there >is "something" in the ParamArray? I would not expect it to be equal to >a null, it is (I can remember which) actually a stack or heap pointer. >I also seem to remember that passing objects in paramarrays is a nono >you can only pass value items (???) , but its been months since I've >VBA'd so to speak so I could be wrong on that. > > >...meanwhile back to the C# > >hth >Bruce > > > > "John W. Colby" > > com> cc: > Sent by: Subject: [AccessD] >ParamArray problem > accessd-bounces at databasea > dvisors.com > > > 11/03/2004 15:43 > Please respond to Access > Developers discussion and > problem solving > > > > > > >I am doing an init() method of a class that looks like: > >Public Sub Init(ByRef robjParent As Object, ParamArray lDepObjsArr() As >Variant) > >where robjParent = a pointer to the parent class (ME) > >and ParamArray lDepObjsArr() As Variant MAY BE an array of dependent >object classes but specifically at the moment isn't being passed >anything. I.e. the calling function looks like > >MyClass.Init me > >I am passing in a pointer to self in the first parameter and nothing at >all for the array. > >Since it is an array that can contain variable number of objects I >expected it to allow this. However when I get inside the init() the >lDepObjsArr has something in it. That something is NOT a class, and I >can't debug.print the value... > >What the heck is going on here? Can I not do this (not pass anything >to a paramarray? > >John W. Colby >www.ColbyConsulting.com _________________________________________________________________ STOP MORE SPAM with the MSN Premium and get 2 months FREE* http://join.msn.com/?pgmarket=en-ca&page=byoa/prem&xAPID=1994&DI=1034&SU =htt p://hotmail.com/enca&HL=Market_MSNIS_Taglines -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com Sat Mar 13 12:31:18 2004 From: jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com (John W. Colby) Date: Sat, 13 Mar 2004 13:31:18 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] ParamArray problem In-Reply-To: <009d01c4093b$f68a0f60$6501a8c0@rock> Message-ID: Arthur, In the end you never pass objects, only pointers to objects. Only the smaller data types such as integers, floats etc can actually be "passed by value", everything else is passed by reference, i.e. a pointer to the object. Let's back up a moment. Did you read the last issue of my framework discussion (which in itself is a misnomer since no one is really responding in a technical manner). The form class - dclsFrm runs a control scanner where it iterates the controls collection of the form, instantiating class for each control found. A POINTER to each class instance is saved in the form's collection. So... in the case we are discussing, the form now "knows about" (for the sake of argument) 30 controls of which 3 are combos. Every one of these controls has an associated class loaded and (pointers) stored in the collection in the form class. Now, after running that scanner the developer needs to "inform" one combo that 3 other objects (combos, lists, subforms etc) are dependent on it. Thus a ParamArray. With one call I can pass in a pointer to all three dependent objects. The dependent class takes the array, pulls the pointer to the classes that I passed in, and loads them into its own collection. Not that class' Requery method is called, the class can call the requery method of each item in that collection. BTW, I am actually doing this in the example code I posted on my site for the last lecture. Load the frmPeopleV3 and notice that the form loads no data. Select a company and notice that the data set for the form changes, likewise the dataset for the cboEmployee. Both of these objects are dependent on the cboCompany. Look in the form's class, particularly OnOpen. That code is all there is to telling one cbo that other objects depend on it. As you can see, I was never proposing "tight coupling" of control classes. In fact I have to guess that I am actually implementing exactly what you are envisioning with the collection of dependent objects. The only difference is that I have moved the collection and all of the code out into a dependent object class. John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Arthur Fuller Sent: Saturday, March 13, 2004 3:44 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: [AccessD] ParamArray problem First of all, why on earth would you want to pass a class? I'm a little dim but can't imagine a circumstance where that would prove useful. Even in the factory design pattern, you don't pass an actual class. While pondering this, I thought for a moment that one approach might be to create a collection. One cool thing about collections is that the members need have almost nothing in common. I was thinking about this as a way around the tight coupling of the dependent objects class that JC was proposing. I didn't try it, JC, but could that approach work? You could have a collection of dependent objects, with one "parent" and as many "children" as depend on that parent. None of the controls would need to know the name of any other. Just a thought.... Arthur -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of John W. Colby Sent: Thursday, March 11, 2004 5:14 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] ParamArray problem Sorry, meant to say: >Indeed you CAN'T dim the array as specific class types AFAICT. If you look up ParamArrays in help it says that you can type the array as any of the built-in types including objects, but not custom types such as classes. John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com From Subscriptions at servicexp.com Sat Mar 13 14:34:57 2004 From: Subscriptions at servicexp.com (Robert Gracie) Date: Sat, 13 Mar 2004 15:34:57 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Framework Discussion - Questions.. In-Reply-To: Message-ID: John, I have been messing around with your last db today, and I'm trying to stay with this. I have two questions/problems.. Objective/Question 1: How would you add a "dynamic sentence case" system that is specific to certain controls. For instance, I have a several forms, each form can have up to 45 text box and combos used to enter/display data. There are 6 different "types" of information stored. One type would be "Model and Serial Numbers", Another type would be Address..etc. Each requiring a different sentence case. Which is user selectable in the program settings for each of these 6 types. Currently I'm using a procedure, which among other things passes an integer for the "case type", along with the text from the control. Something like the below is placed on the OnExit event on each of the control I have programmed to be "case controlled" Example of Old Method: If bolMCaseY = True And Not IsNull(Me.Address1) = True Then Me![Address1] = ProperManager(Me![Address1], iMCaseChoice) End If I can't seem to figure out how to "instruct" the framework which controls are to be handled and which Case to use. I would love to get rid of all those procedure stubs in CBF. Objective/Question 2: I'm trying to add an error system to the framework. Basically I want to implement an error class that will extend the current err object with Logging, SMTP error reporting, etc.. Unless I'm doing something wrong, you can't dim the err object WithEvents, so that's out. I'm able to get the system to work in the form class directly, but that's it. I would like to pass the error control to the form passed into the form collection (and maybe into the control collection, and handle the errors there, but I simply keep running into dead ends.... I'm not even sure this can be done, or should be done. I think it would make for MUCH less coding though.... I'm sure I'm going about this all wrong.....:-( Option Compare Database Option Explicit Public fdclsFrm As dclsFrm Private Err As clsErrorSystem Private Sub Form_Open(Cancel As Integer) Set fdclsFrm = New dclsFrm Set Err = New clsErrorSystem Err.Init Me fdclsFrm.Init Me, Me With fdclsFrm.colClasses .item("cboCompany").clsDepObj.Add .item("cboEmployee"), cboEmployee.Name .item("cboCompany").clsDepObj.Add fdclsFrm, Me.Name .item("cboCompany").Requery End With End Sub Private Sub cmdClose_Click() Dim lng As Long On Error GoTo HandleErr Me.Caption = "some text" lng = "Sdf" ' causes an error 'DoCmd.Close ExitHere: Exit Sub HandleErr: Select Case Err.Number Case Else MsgBox Err.BuildError("frmpeopleV3.CmdClose") End Select End Sub Robert Gracie www.servicexp.com From jimdettman at earthlink.net Sat Mar 13 16:38:24 2004 From: jimdettman at earthlink.net (Jim Dettman) Date: Sat, 13 Mar 2004 17:38:24 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Framework Discussion - Dependent Objects In-Reply-To: Message-ID: John, <> "Useable" was probably a poor choice of words on my part. I was really thinking in terms of features. I slid into "useable" in the sense that by the time you add everything that everyone might want, you've got everything except the kitchen sink. << Would you notice an additional 1/50th of a second for the framework to do it's thing?>> I only mention it because as you get further down the road and into composite classes, there gets to be a design decision in regards to how a framework should be structured for what offers. The out come of that can have a large impact on performance. This is one of the hot button issues with VFP frameworks, which you know are quite a bit farther down the framework road. Considering that VFP is a true compile and it's an issue there, I don't see how it could not be an issue at some point with VBA. Jim (315) 699-3443 jimdettman at earthlink.net -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of John W. Colby Sent: Saturday, March 13, 2004 9:18 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] Framework Discussion - Dependent Objects Jim, >What will be interesting to see is by the time you get to a useable framework what performance will be like. I have a usable framework already, in fact I am looking at my old to find subjects for these articles. The performance is simply not an issue. As I mentioned once before I did some timings way back with my old framework. I had a very complex form with literally close to a hundred controls loading classes. I timed the control scanner and what I discovered is that with an old Pentium (100 MHz? 150 MHz?) and 128 mb of ram the scanner tool under 1/2 millisecond to load each class instance. Thus a form loading 100 classes took 50 milliseconds to load the classes. When a bound form is loading combos and the form's data, the form's data load time thoroughly swamps the picture. Would you notice an additional 1/50th of a second for the framework to do it's thing? Visual Basic is a reasonably fast interpreter and the time to execute programs usually just doesn't enter the picture in a database application where queries and recordset manipulations are slowing things down. And of course our computers get faster and faster. John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Jim Dettman Sent: Saturday, March 13, 2004 8:32 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] Framework Discussion - Dependent Objects John, What will be interesting to see is by the time you get to a useable framework what performance will be like. BTW great job with all the articles. Haven't had much time lately to go through them in detail, but I've skimmed most and your doing one heck of a job on it. Jim Dettman Online Computer Services of WNY, Inc. (315) 699-3443 jimdettman at earthlink.net -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of John W. Colby Sent: Saturday, March 13, 2004 12:44 AM To: AccessD Subject: [AccessD] Framework Discussion - Dependent Objects The example database and a word document of this email is on my site - www.colbyconsulting.com Click C2DbFW3G, then the hotlink to C2DbFW3G-DemoCtlClassV3.zip. Eventually all of these emails will be cleaned up by DatabaseAdvisors and published in Many-to-Many. The ultimate purpose of a framework is to give you clearly defined places to go to place properties and behaviors for objects that should be available for future projects. Controls are a prime example of this since they have no built-in class and yet we want to extend their functionality. Thus we build classes for each control type so that we can extend the functionality of that control. To this end in this discussion we are going to add some new functionality to the combo class we defined. The new functionality will be dependent object re-query. Dependent object re-query means that we will create a method of selecting objects (classes) that filter their data based on the currently selected data in the control ? in this case a combo. As the user selects new data in the combo, any dependent objects need to be automatically re-queried so that they display filtered data that depends on this combo. This behavior is generally useful and will demonstrate how we expand a framework to add things that we want our framework to do. Dependent Objects Dependent objects are a common occurrence in Access applications. As an example a form has two combos on it, cboCompany and cboEmployees. As the user selects cboCompany, cboEmployees needs to be filtered to only display the employees for the company just selected. Or perhaps a company is selected and only Addresses for that company are displayed in cboAddress. Dependent objects are usually implemented by referring to the filtering object in a field of the query which pulls data for the dependent object. In other words, cboAddress will have something that looks like ?Like form!frmMyForm!cboCompany? in the criteria of the query for cboAddress or cboEmployees. cboAddress is filtered by or dependent on cboCompany. In order to implement this functionality in our framework we could simply add a dependent object collection directly inside of the control class, then add methods to each control class to add objects to that collection, remove them again when the control class closes, and of course a re-query method to iterate through all of the objects in the collection, calling the re-query method of every object. Notice that this implies that every control that can be dependent on another control must have a public re-query method in its class. The dependent object code The code for this would look something like: In the header of each control class (stripped of all error handling for easy reading): Private mcolDepObj As Collection Collection initialization code in each control class? Initialize event Private Sub Class_Initialize() Set mcolDepObj = New Collection End Sub Cleanup code in each control classes Term() function Public Sub Term() Set mcolDepObj = Nothing End Sub And finally public functions (methods) to handle the dependent object specific stuff: Private Function ColEmpty() While mcolDepObj.Count > 0 mcolDepObj.Remove 1 Wend End Function 'Requery every obj in the dependent object collection Public Function Requery() Dim Obj As Variant For Each Obj In mcolDepObj Obj.Requery Next Obj End Function 'Add multiple objects into the collection Public Function DepObjs(ParamArray lDepObjsArr() As Variant) Dim Obj As Variant For Each Obj In lDepObjsArr mcolDepObj.Add Obj, Obj.Name Next Obj End Function 'Add a single object Public Function Add(item As Variant, key As Variant) mcolDepObj.Add item, key Requery End Function 'Remove a single object Public Function Remove(index As Variant) mcolDepObj.Remove index End Function 'get a count of the objects in the collection Public Function Count() Count = mcolDepObj.Count End Function 'get one specific object back out of the collection Public Function item(index As Variant) item = mcolDepObj.item(index) End Function There?s nothing wrong with doing it that way but we are trying to learn to use classes and another way we could implement this is to build a dependent object class. Then we simply add a dependent object class to each control class that needs one. A huge advantage to using a dedicated class for this is that now we put all of that exact same code in one place, in one class, then simply dim a clsDepObj wherever we need it and call the class? methods. We don?t have to go add this stuff to each and every control class that may have dependent objects. Each control class? code Instead of all that code above in each control class, we now have: In each control class? header (stripped of all error handling for easy reading): Private mclsDepObj As clsDepObj Initialization in each control class? Initialize event. Private Sub Class_Initialize() Set mclsDepObj = New clsDepObj End Sub Cleanup in each control class? Term() Public Sub Term() mclsDepObj.Term Set mclsDepObj = Nothing End Sub And a property get to return a handle to the clsDepObj class instance for this control class? instance Public Property Get clsDepObj() As clsDepObj Set clsDepObj = mclsDepObj End Property You have to admit adding a few lines of code to each control class is way cleaner and easier than adding all of that dependent object code to each control class. Not to mention if we want to add some other dependent object functionality to the framework we just do it in one place instead in every control class. 'Requery the control and then requery all dependent objects Public Function Requery() mcbo.Requery mclsDepObj.Requery End Function One thing that we have to remember is to add a re-query method to every control class that will have a dependent object class. Obviously if this class? control has a data source then we need to re-query this control as well as calling the re-query method of the dependent object class. And finally, when the combo AfterUpdate fires we want to re-query all the objects in our new class? dependent object collection. We do that by calling the mclsDepObj?s re-query method. Withevents! You gotta love them! Private Sub mcbo_AfterUpdate() mclsDepObj.Requery End Sub So now that we have this wonderful new class and functionality, how do we tell the framework to use it? The answer to that lies in the form class? initialization which occurs in the form?s Open event. The form?s built-in class I have modified frmPeopleV3 to add two combos in the form header section. cboCompany and cboEmployee respectively contain data for companies and employees of those companies. Thus the form?s code now looks like: Option Compare Database Option Explicit Our custom form class dclsFrm Public fdclsFrm As dclsFrm And the form?s Open event. Private Sub Form_Open(Cancel As Integer) Set fdclsFrm = New dclsFrm fdclsFrm.Init Me, Me With fdclsFrm.colClasses .item("cboCompany").clsDepObj.Add .item("cboEmployee"), cboEmployee.Name .item("cboCompany").clsDepObj.Add fdclsFrm, Me.Name .item("cboCompany").Requery End With End Sub I know this looks very complicated but we will take it one step at a time and show you what we are doing. The set statement and init look very much like before. We are passing in a reference to the form?s built in class (Me) and a reference to the form itself (Me). Unfortunately in the case of the form, Me refers both to the class as well as the physical form so that can be a little odd at times. Set fdclsFrm = New dclsFrm fdclsFrm.Init Me, Me Next we use a with statement to do a partial resolution of dclsFrm to speed up getting at things. With fdclsFrm.colClasses dclsFrm has a property fdclsFrm.colClasses that returns a pointer to the classes collection. Using that we can now refer to that collection?s properties and methods. We use the .item() method to return something from the collection. .item("cboCompany").clsDepObj.Add .item("cboEmployee"), cboEmployee.Name Remember that in dclsFrm we had a control scanner that found all the controls on the form, built a class for each one, and placed a pointer to each control?s class instance in colClasses. Remember also that we used the control?s name as the key or index into the collection. Thus .item("cboCompany") tells the class to return the item in colClasses that was named ?cboCompany, in other words the control class for the control cboCompany. Thus: .item("cboCompany") is a pointer to a combo class and is exactly equivalent to the more verbose: dim ldclsCbo as dclsCbo set dclsCbo = .item(?cboCompany?) Since we are dealing with a pointer to a combo class we can now call any method or property of that class which is what we do with: .item("cboCompany").clsDepObj.Add We are saying ?for the combo company class, call the clsDepObject method which returns a pointer to the dependent object class, and then call that classes add method. Whew! Just remember that the ?period? denotes a method or property of the class, so you just end up referencing classes with properties that return classes with properties that return classes where you finally use a method of that class. fdclsFrm.colClasses.item(?class name?).clsDepObj.Add By the way, you can set a break point on that line of code and step through the code watching the methods of the various classes being called, returning pointers to the next object, which steps into a method of that and returns a pointer to the next object etc. until you finally ?drill down? to the final .Add method. This stuff is FUN! OK, back to the big picture. With fdclsFrm.colClasses .item("cboCompany").clsDepObj.Add .item("cboEmployee"), cboEmployee.Name .item("cboCompany").clsDepObj.Add fdclsFrm, Me.Name .item("cboCompany").Requery End With We have now told the dclsFrm to add something to the clsDepObj. The ?something? is the class for the cboEmployee. .item("cboCompany").clsDepObj.Add .item("cboEmployee"), cboEmployee.Name Likewise I have made the form itself dependent on the cboCompany so we also have to tell the class for cboEmployee that dclsFrm is a dependent object. .item("cboCompany").clsDepObj.Add fdclsFrm, Me.Name And finally, we have to re-query cboCompany so that it requeries all of its dependent objects. .item("cboCompany").Requery And that, as they say, is that. Reference the form?s colClasses, pulling out the class for cboCompany. Using the clsDepObj method of that class to pull the clsDepObj, use that class? Add method to add an object to the dependent object collection. The object added is the class for cboEmployee and the class for the form itself, fdclsFrm. Once we have added these two items to our dependent object class, re-query the whole structure. I know quite well that this stuff can make your eyes cross when you first look at it but believe me it will become second nature once you have worked with classes, methods and properties, and collections for awhile. Summary By adding a new, rather small class with a single collection variable and a handful of public methods, we have built a method of manipulating dependent objects. Once the class exists, it is a simple matter to add a few lines of code to the class of each control that can have dependent objects and by doing so add dependent object handling to any class that needs it. Probably the biggest stretch was decoding the rather obtuse code in the form?s Open method that ?programs? the specific class that has dependent objects, dclsCbo for cboEmployee, thus telling it to place pointers to two objects in its dependent object handling system. Those two objects are the class for cboEmployee and the class for the form itself. The end result is that when the form initially opens it displays no records because there is no company selected and the form is filtered by or dependent on cboEmployee. However once we select an employee, the combo now has something that can be used to filter the form and the cboEmployee. Since cboCompany calls its clsDepObj?s re-query, the form?s class requeries the form, and cboEmployee?s class requeries cboEmployee. By the way, if cboEmployee had been programmed with dependent objects of its own, cboEmployee?s class would have requeried all of its dependent objects and the process just ripples down the chain automagically. Classes are powerful tools that allow us to encapsulate functionality into a single location, hold all of the variables and code needed to implement necessary behaviors, and provide a single place to go to add new related behaviors if necessary. You can pull this dependent object class into your own framework and with relatively little effort add dependent object processing to your own combos and other controls. Dependent object processing is a trivial application, but imagine if the class had dozens of properties and methods! This encapsulation and portability becomes a prime reason to know how to use classes. John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com Sat Mar 13 18:35:17 2004 From: jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com (John W. Colby) Date: Sat, 13 Mar 2004 19:35:17 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Framework Discussion - Questions.. In-Reply-To: Message-ID: >Objective/Question 1: How would you add a "dynamic sentence case" system that is specific to certain controls. For instance, I have a several forms, each form can have up to 45 text box and combos used to enter/display data. There are 6 different "types" of information stored. One type would be "Model and Serial Numbers", Another type would be Address..etc. Each requiring a different sentence case. Which is user selectable in the program settings for each of these 6 types. This could be handled at least two different ways (using class methodology) and a third way using the existing function. Which is "the best" will never be agreed upon in a room full of developers but in general you should be analyzing the complexity of the system and if there are objects such as recordsets, collections or other objects (in the module that does the proper case) that need initializing. 1) Take all of the code that currently exists in a module for this proper case widget and turn it into a class. Dim a variable in the header of the text box class ONLY to hold an Integer ProperCaseType and another to hold a pointer to the class (assuming that no other control type will be used for free form data entry). In the text box class, add a method that is passed in an Integer that tells THIS class instance that it needs to do the proper casing and what "type" it will be performing. In the class, as that value is passed in, initialize the propercase class and store a pointer to it in the variable in the text box header. Also store that ProperCaseType integer in its variable in the text box class header. Now in the OnExit event of the text box (in the text box class event sink of course - WithEvents), if the ProperCaseType integer is > 0 then call the Propercase function passing the value of the text box and returning the value back into the text box. That's the general idea anyway. Which event is up to you but the concept is that you have a ProperCaseClass which you only load if you (the developer) passes an integer value to a method of some specific text box class instance. Now that text box class instance will propercase its data. 2) If the ProperCase code is simple (unlikely but possible) the next way would be to simply add all of that code into the text box class directly. Again, if the developer passes an integer ProperCase type value into a text box class method, then the text box will use one of its events to pass the value entered by the user to the ProperCase code and place the returning value back to the text box. 3) And finally, just leave the ProperCase code out in a module somewhere and call that code from the class. Everything else the same, integer ProperCaseType passed to the specific text box class instance(s) that should perform ProperCase behavior, but call the function out in the module rather than inside the class or in a dedicated class. Which is the "best". Again ask any 10 developers on this list and you will get answers all over the place and possible even other solutions. I tend to say that if the code is particularly complex it should be in it's own class. If it has to instantiate recordsets, run queries or other stuff then it DEFINITELY should be in it's own class. If the code is simple, then it should probably just be embedded directly in the text box class. If the code will also be called from a query or the likes then it should (perhaps ALSO) be left out in a module. However even here if it is complex and particularly if it has to open recordsets and stuff, I tend to make it a class, instantiate it in the framework's base class and write a wrapper function. As you start to use classes you will develop your own sense of when and why to use classes. Generally I would build a dedicated class because then it could be easily "hooked in" to the framework at several different levels. If you are using a "commercial" framework (with source of course) you could have your tied in without having to extensively modify the thing which would make upgrading difficult. Classes are very nice for "encapsulation" of all the code and variables required, initializing everything in Init() and cleaning itself up in Term(). Notice that from a framework perspective, it doesn't matter which of the three methods you use, you will still hook it in to the text box class such that you just call a method passing in that ProperCaseType integer and the class takes over and just does it. Notice too that it isn't "specific to certain controls" at all. Any control (of that type - text in this case) "knows how" to "proper case" and it's just a matter of "turning it on" by passing in a ProperCaseType to the specific text box class instances that need to use this functionality! THAT is what a framework is really all about. Behaviors are NEVER "specific to certain controls" they are instead "turned on for certain controls". John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Robert Gracie Sent: Saturday, March 13, 2004 3:35 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] Framework Discussion - Questions.. John, I have been messing around with your last db today, and I'm trying to stay with this. I have two questions/problems.. Objective/Question 1: How would you add a "dynamic sentence case" system that is specific to certain controls. For instance, I have a several forms, each form can have up to 45 text box and combos used to enter/display data. There are 6 different "types" of information stored. One type would be "Model and Serial Numbers", Another type would be Address..etc. Each requiring a different sentence case. Which is user selectable in the program settings for each of these 6 types. Currently I'm using a procedure, which among other things passes an integer for the "case type", along with the text from the control. Something like the below is placed on the OnExit event on each of the control I have programmed to be "case controlled" Example of Old Method: If bolMCaseY = True And Not IsNull(Me.Address1) = True Then Me![Address1] = ProperManager(Me![Address1], iMCaseChoice) End If I can't seem to figure out how to "instruct" the framework which controls are to be handled and which Case to use. I would love to get rid of all those procedure stubs in CBF. Objective/Question 2: I'm trying to add an error system to the framework. Basically I want to implement an error class that will extend the current err object with Logging, SMTP error reporting, etc.. Unless I'm doing something wrong, you can't dim the err object WithEvents, so that's out. I'm able to get the system to work in the form class directly, but that's it. I would like to pass the error control to the form passed into the form collection (and maybe into the control collection, and handle the errors there, but I simply keep running into dead ends.... I'm not even sure this can be done, or should be done. I think it would make for MUCH less coding though.... I'm sure I'm going about this all wrong.....:-( Option Compare Database Option Explicit Public fdclsFrm As dclsFrm Private Err As clsErrorSystem Private Sub Form_Open(Cancel As Integer) Set fdclsFrm = New dclsFrm Set Err = New clsErrorSystem Err.Init Me fdclsFrm.Init Me, Me With fdclsFrm.colClasses .item("cboCompany").clsDepObj.Add .item("cboEmployee"), cboEmployee.Name .item("cboCompany").clsDepObj.Add fdclsFrm, Me.Name .item("cboCompany").Requery End With End Sub Private Sub cmdClose_Click() Dim lng As Long On Error GoTo HandleErr Me.Caption = "some text" lng = "Sdf" ' causes an error 'DoCmd.Close ExitHere: Exit Sub HandleErr: Select Case Err.Number Case Else MsgBox Err.BuildError("frmpeopleV3.CmdClose") End Select End Sub Robert Gracie www.servicexp.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com Sat Mar 13 18:35:49 2004 From: jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com (John W. Colby) Date: Sat, 13 Mar 2004 19:35:49 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Framework Discussion - Questions.. In-Reply-To: Message-ID: As for Objective 2, I think that someone who uses an Error System should pipe up and discuss how they see an error handler hooking in to the framework as they see it. I have always wanted to do an error handler of this type but... well... John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Robert Gracie Sent: Saturday, March 13, 2004 3:35 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] Framework Discussion - Questions.. John, I have been messing around with your last db today, and I'm trying to stay with this. I have two questions/problems.. Objective/Question 1: How would you add a "dynamic sentence case" system that is specific to certain controls. For instance, I have a several forms, each form can have up to 45 text box and combos used to enter/display data. There are 6 different "types" of information stored. One type would be "Model and Serial Numbers", Another type would be Address..etc. Each requiring a different sentence case. Which is user selectable in the program settings for each of these 6 types. Currently I'm using a procedure, which among other things passes an integer for the "case type", along with the text from the control. Something like the below is placed on the OnExit event on each of the control I have programmed to be "case controlled" Example of Old Method: If bolMCaseY = True And Not IsNull(Me.Address1) = True Then Me![Address1] = ProperManager(Me![Address1], iMCaseChoice) End If I can't seem to figure out how to "instruct" the framework which controls are to be handled and which Case to use. I would love to get rid of all those procedure stubs in CBF. Objective/Question 2: I'm trying to add an error system to the framework. Basically I want to implement an error class that will extend the current err object with Logging, SMTP error reporting, etc.. Unless I'm doing something wrong, you can't dim the err object WithEvents, so that's out. I'm able to get the system to work in the form class directly, but that's it. I would like to pass the error control to the form passed into the form collection (and maybe into the control collection, and handle the errors there, but I simply keep running into dead ends.... I'm not even sure this can be done, or should be done. I think it would make for MUCH less coding though.... I'm sure I'm going about this all wrong.....:-( Option Compare Database Option Explicit Public fdclsFrm As dclsFrm Private Err As clsErrorSystem Private Sub Form_Open(Cancel As Integer) Set fdclsFrm = New dclsFrm Set Err = New clsErrorSystem Err.Init Me fdclsFrm.Init Me, Me With fdclsFrm.colClasses .item("cboCompany").clsDepObj.Add .item("cboEmployee"), cboEmployee.Name .item("cboCompany").clsDepObj.Add fdclsFrm, Me.Name .item("cboCompany").Requery End With End Sub Private Sub cmdClose_Click() Dim lng As Long On Error GoTo HandleErr Me.Caption = "some text" lng = "Sdf" ' causes an error 'DoCmd.Close ExitHere: Exit Sub HandleErr: Select Case Err.Number Case Else MsgBox Err.BuildError("frmpeopleV3.CmdClose") End Select End Sub Robert Gracie www.servicexp.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com Sat Mar 13 19:43:09 2004 From: jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com (John W. Colby) Date: Sat, 13 Mar 2004 20:43:09 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Framework Discussion - Dependent Objects In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Jim, What I think that you are forgetting is that VFP. like .NET is a system with true inheritance. Access is not. Thus with VFP or .Net you can get bogged down with classes inheriting classes inheriting classes inheriting classes inheriting.. And of course all that inheritance has to be "built up" as the classes load. Access has none of that. Nothing inherits anything. What a framework in Access really provides is nothing more than objects (classes) written for a specific purpose, to perform specific processing. Often they are wrappers around objects that have no classes of their own allowing us to "simulate" in a very crude sense inheriting the object, but the "inheritance chain" comes to a screeching halt immediately unless of course you were to write a wrapper to a wrapper to a wrapper. Our wrapper allows us to do nothing more than add custom functionality to THAT wrapped object. Of course a class can instantiate another class to obtain encapsulated services that it needs but that is hardly the same thing as what you are referring to. In the end, my current framework has... 45 classes (I just went and counted them). Of that number, 17 are wrappers to the various controls and the form. The rest are "services" of one type or another - FTP, HTTP, Zip, Unzip, Enigma, MD5, Sysvars, Timer, AuditTrail, DependentObjects etc. Access is NOT a true OO environment. It has objects, of which you manipulate methods and properties, however true inheritance is virtually nonexistent. The issues that you refer to with VFP and .NET simply cannot occur in Access because of that. Believe me, given my druthers I'd take true inheritance and deal with the speed issue that might occur. John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Jim Dettman Sent: Saturday, March 13, 2004 5:38 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] Framework Discussion - Dependent Objects John, <> "Useable" was probably a poor choice of words on my part. I was really thinking in terms of features. I slid into "useable" in the sense that by the time you add everything that everyone might want, you've got everything except the kitchen sink. << Would you notice an additional 1/50th of a second for the framework to do it's thing?>> I only mention it because as you get further down the road and into composite classes, there gets to be a design decision in regards to how a framework should be structured for what offers. The out come of that can have a large impact on performance. This is one of the hot button issues with VFP frameworks, which you know are quite a bit farther down the framework road. Considering that VFP is a true compile and it's an issue there, I don't see how it could not be an issue at some point with VBA. Jim (315) 699-3443 jimdettman at earthlink.net From accessd at shaw.ca Sun Mar 14 03:57:55 2004 From: accessd at shaw.ca (Jim Lawrence (AccessD)) Date: Sun, 14 Mar 2004 01:57:55 -0800 Subject: [AccessD] OT: Connected mixed OS on a Pier-toPier LAN In-Reply-To: Message-ID: OT Hi All: This is off topic but I am sure others have been having the same problems and it comes as real revelation to me. The problem only affects people who support or have mixed LANs...LANs with more than one OS and XP. When connecting a mixed group of computers together, with one or more computers being XP, the conventional wisdom was to use NetBEUI. When XP first came out, it's CD held a version of NetBEUI that worked well with other OSs but with latter versions, problems started to appear...slow connections and even lockup. It appears that MS were now shipping with a propitiatory XP NetBEUI implementation. The solution is the remove all traces of the XP NetBEUI from the offending system. First remove the protocol, through the control panel, delete the files nbf.sys and netnbf.inf, find and replace same with 2000 netBEUI drivers and unbind the TCP/IP protocol, so the TCP is only used for internet communications and do the same for the rest of the network's internet communications. Do not attempt mixed protocols within a pier to pier LAN that have an XP component. The validity can be checked out at http://www.scotsnewsletter.com/38.htm#tipadaweek Hope the helps someone. Jim From BBarabash at TappeConstruction.com Sun Mar 14 08:58:56 2004 From: BBarabash at TappeConstruction.com (Brett Barabash) Date: Sun, 14 Mar 2004 08:58:56 -0600 Subject: [AccessD] OT: Connected mixed OS on a Pier-toPier LAN Message-ID: <426071E0B0A6D311B3C0006008B0AB23AFE3F9@TAPPEEXCH01> YES!!!! Thank you for this. NetBEUI was a serious pain for me to setup at home (especially since my laptop vendor doesn't supply actual WinXP installation disks). So, uh, Pier-to-Pier networking. Was that technology invented by the Navy? -----Original Message----- From: Jim Lawrence (AccessD) [mailto:accessd at shaw.ca] Sent: Sunday, March 14, 2004 3:58 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: [AccessD] OT: Connected mixed OS on a Pier-toPier LAN --------------- OT Hi All: This is off topic but I am sure others have been having the same problems and it comes as real revelation to me. The problem only affects people who support or have mixed LANs...LANs with more than one OS and XP. When connecting a mixed group of computers together, with one or more computers being XP, the conventional wisdom was to use NetBEUI. When XP first came out, it's CD held a version of NetBEUI that worked well with other OSs but with latter versions, problems started to appear...slow connections and even lockup. It appears that MS were now shipping with a propitiatory XP NetBEUI implementation. The solution is the remove all traces of the XP NetBEUI from the offending system. First remove the protocol, through the control panel, delete the files nbf.sys and netnbf.inf, find and replace same with 2000 netBEUI drivers and unbind the TCP/IP protocol, so the TCP is only used for internet communications and do the same for the rest of the network's internet communications. Do not attempt mixed protocols within a pier to pier LAN that have an XP component. The validity can be checked out at http://www.scotsnewsletter.com/38.htm#tipadaweek Hope the helps someone. Jim -------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- The information in this email may contain confidential information that is legally privileged. The information is only for the use of the intended recipient(s) named above. If you are not the intended recipient(s), you are hereby notified that any disclosure, copying, distribution, or the taking of any action in regard to the content of this fax is strictly prohibited. If transmission is incorrect, unclear, or incomplete, please notify the sender immediately. The authorized recipient(s) of this information is/are prohibited from disclosing this information to any other party and is/are required to destroy the information after its stated need has been fulfilled. Any views expressed in this message are those of the individual sender, except where the sender specifies and with authority, states them to be the views of Tappe Construction Co. This footer also confirms that this email message has been scanned for the presence of computer viruses.Scanning of this message and addition of this footer is performed by SurfControl E-mail Filter software in conjunction with virus detection software. From accessd at shaw.ca Sun Mar 14 13:10:28 2004 From: accessd at shaw.ca (Jim Lawrence (AccessD)) Date: Sun, 14 Mar 2004 11:10:28 -0800 Subject: [AccessD] OT: Connected mixed OS on a Pier-toPier LAN In-Reply-To: <426071E0B0A6D311B3C0006008B0AB23AFE3F9@TAPPEEXCH01> Message-ID: Hi Brett: Yes you are correct, Pier-to-Pier is a technology was invented by the Swiss Navy... Peer-to-Peer is probably a more accurate description. I guess this is a example of why it always good policy to re-read what you write. Jim -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Brett Barabash Sent: Sunday, March 14, 2004 6:59 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: [AccessD] OT: Connected mixed OS on a Pier-toPier LAN YES!!!! Thank you for this. NetBEUI was a serious pain for me to setup at home (especially since my laptop vendor doesn't supply actual WinXP installation disks). So, uh, Pier-to-Pier networking. Was that technology invented by the Navy? -----Original Message----- From: Jim Lawrence (AccessD) [mailto:accessd at shaw.ca] Sent: Sunday, March 14, 2004 3:58 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: [AccessD] OT: Connected mixed OS on a Pier-toPier LAN --------------- OT Hi All: This is off topic but I am sure others have been having the same problems and it comes as real revelation to me. The problem only affects people who support or have mixed LANs...LANs with more than one OS and XP. When connecting a mixed group of computers together, with one or more computers being XP, the conventional wisdom was to use NetBEUI. When XP first came out, it's CD held a version of NetBEUI that worked well with other OSs but with latter versions, problems started to appear...slow connections and even lockup. It appears that MS were now shipping with a propitiatory XP NetBEUI implementation. The solution is the remove all traces of the XP NetBEUI from the offending system. First remove the protocol, through the control panel, delete the files nbf.sys and netnbf.inf, find and replace same with 2000 netBEUI drivers and unbind the TCP/IP protocol, so the TCP is only used for internet communications and do the same for the rest of the network's internet communications. Do not attempt mixed protocols within a pier to pier LAN that have an XP component. The validity can be checked out at http://www.scotsnewsletter.com/38.htm#tipadaweek Hope the helps someone. Jim ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- ---------------------------------------- The information in this email may contain confidential information that is legally privileged. The information is only for the use of the intended recipient(s) named above. If you are not the intended recipient(s), you are hereby notified that any disclosure, copying, distribution, or the taking of any action in regard to the content of this fax is strictly prohibited. If transmission is incorrect, unclear, or incomplete, please notify the sender immediately. The authorized recipient(s) of this information is/are prohibited from disclosing this information to any other party and is/are required to destroy the information after its stated need has been fulfilled. Any views expressed in this message are those of the individual sender, except where the sender specifies and with authority, states them to be the views of Tappe Construction Co. This footer also confirms that this email message has been scanned for the presence of computer viruses.Scanning of this message and addition of this footer is performed by SurfControl E-mail Filter software in conjunction with virus detection software. -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From GregSmith at starband.net Sun Mar 14 18:17:05 2004 From: GregSmith at starband.net (Greg Smith) Date: Sun, 14 Mar 2004 18:17:05 -0600 Subject: [AccessD] Converting Access 97 to Access XP FE& BE In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <200403150016.i2F0GF3Y005874@apollo.email.starband.net> Hi Carlos! Yes! Please do. And thanks. Sorry about taking so long to respond... Greg Smith gregsmith at starband.net -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Carlos Alberto Alves Sent: Thursday, March 11, 2004 9:18 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Converting Access 97 to Access XP FE& BE On Wed, 10 Mar 2004 13:12:18 -0800, Charlotte Foust wrote: > Unless you're planning on using ADO exclusively, DAO works just fine > in XP, and you still have to fall back on DAO for somethings anyhow. > XP has no problem with either CurrentDB or CurrentProject, and there > is a certain basic support for both ADO and DAO built into XP even if > you remove *both* the references. I recommend you go through and > specifically change your declarations throughout to DAO.Recordset, > DAO.Database, etc., both to remove any confusion the engine has and to > make it easier to spot them in your code. There are certain objects > that have the same name in both models, and without the specific > declaration, Access can get them mixed up and think you're trying to > use an invalid method or property. > > Charlotte Foust Hi Greg! I have a .PDF file about DAO to ADO conversion. It is 550Kb. May I send it you offline? -- ****************************** * Carlos Alberto Alves * * Child Neurologist * * Systems Analyst/Programmer * * Rio de Janeiro, Brazil * * mailto:caa at highway.com.br * ****************************** -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From adtp at touchtelindia.net Sun Mar 14 12:16:02 2004 From: adtp at touchtelindia.net (A.D.Tejpal) Date: Sun, 14 Mar 2004 23:46:02 +0530 Subject: [AccessD] active design view in mde References: <002101c40827$cdd1ec10$fb1e65cb@winxp> <006401c40892$bec3b1c0$8ac2f63f@Desktop> Message-ID: <000101c40a45$5dec3980$c71865cb@winxp> John, Design view of forms is not permitted in an .mde file. Importing of forms from other db's (whether .mdb or .mde type) into an .mde is also not permitted. Even inclusion of Reference (in VBA Editor) to an .mdb file won't do as that makes the main .mdb non-convertible to .mde format. In order to overcome these obstacles, a work-around could be adopted if mere run-time availability of such functionality would serve the purpose. This requires creation of an Add-In (.mda) file containing a blank form. Entry module for this Add-In should envisage opening of this form. Once this Add-In is installed, it can be activated from within the main .mde file. The form exposed by the Add-In can be used in design or normal views as desired and can be referred and manipulated just as any other form in the main db. Caution - If the Add-In is activated via code contained in .mde file, care needs to be taken to allow for a little time delay before executing the procedure meant to act upon the form newly exposed by the Add-In. This is in order to allow this form to actually come into existence. Otherwise, there will be error on a/c of Access not being able to locate the form in question. The loop for time delay should also contain DoEvents statement. If you have any problems, kindly do let me know. Regards, A.D.Tejpal -------------- ----- Original Message ----- From: John Eget To: adtp at touchtelindia.net Sent: Saturday, March 13, 2004 06:02 Subject: Re: [AccessD] active design view in mde we have reports with graphs that need to be assembled on a power point slide show from our access xp database any isea is worth trying for me ----- Original Message ----- From: "A.D.Tejpal" To: "Access Developers discussion and problem solving" Sent: Friday, March 12, 2004 6:45 AM Subject: Re: [AccessD] active design view in mde > John, > > Could you kindly give more details as to why you need to do it. There may be a work-around if a temporary form would do. > > Regards, > A.D.Tejpal > -------------- > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Robert Gracie > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Sent: Friday, March 12, 2004 06:11 > Subject: RE: [AccessD] active design view in mde > > > If I understand your question,...No you can't. > > Robert Gracie > www.servicexp.com > > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of John Eget > Sent: Thursday, March 11, 2004 6:18 PM > To: AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > Subject: [AccessD] active design view in mde > > Is there anyway to active design view in an application that had been compiled in an mde format? > Thanks > John From andrew.haslett at ilc.gov.au Sun Mar 14 22:47:18 2004 From: andrew.haslett at ilc.gov.au (Haslett, Andrew) Date: Mon, 15 Mar 2004 15:17:18 +1030 Subject: [AccessD] Are you part of the 98%? Message-ID: Green Dremel! (Don't even know what a Dremel is, but I had just read up on how to fit a half-height video card into a full height slot, and they said to use one..) -----Original Message----- From: Francisco H Tapia [mailto:my.lists at verizon.net] Sent: Saturday, 13 March 2004 11:16 AM To: AccessD; Access-L Subject: [AccessD] Are you part of the 98%? Because it's Friday.... -- -Francisco ------------------- Take the test; it is amazing - Let me know what percentage range you fall into - Test Just follow the instructions as quickly as possible. Do not go to the next calculation before you have finished the previous one. You do not need to write or remember the answers, just do it using your mind. You'll be surprised. Start: How much is: 15+6 3+56 89+2 12+53 75+26 25+52 63+32 I know! Calculations are hard work but it's nearly over... Come on, one more... 123+5 QUICK! THINK ABOUT A TOOL AND A COLOR! Scroll further to the bottom... A bit more... You have just thought about a red hammer, haven't you???? If this is not the case, you are among 2% of people who have a "different" if not "abnormal" mind. 98% of the folks would answer a "red hammer" while doing this exercise. -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com IMPORTANT - PLEASE READ ******************** This email and any files transmitted with it are confidential and may contain information protected by law from disclosure. If you have received this message in error, please notify the sender immediately and delete this email from your system. No warranty is given that this email or files, if attached to this email, are free from computer viruses or other defects. They are provided on the basis the user assumes all responsibility for loss, damage or consequence resulting directly or indirectly from their use, whether caused by the negligence of the sender or not. From stuart at lexacorp.com.pg Sun Mar 14 23:57:52 2004 From: stuart at lexacorp.com.pg (Stuart McLachlan) Date: Mon, 15 Mar 2004 15:57:52 +1000 Subject: [AccessD] Are you part of the 98%? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <4055D280.30755.19654D0@localhost> On 15 Mar 2004 at 15:17, Haslett, Andrew wrote: > Green Dremel! > > (Don't even know what a Dremel is, but I had just read up on how to fit a > half-height video card into a full height slot, and they said to use one..) > A hand held rotary grinder: "The Dremel rotary tool is lightweight and compact, which makes it very "friendly" for beginners. But it's so versatile, even hardcore do-it-yourselfers find it indispensable. This is a tool that works differently from any other tool you've ever owned. It's also the most versatile tool you'll ever use. With more than 150 available accessories, you can use it to cut, sand, shape, drill, buff, grind, polish, rout, etch, clean and more. You'll use it on all kinds of materials. Metal, wood, ceramics, glass, plastic, drywall, leather, laminates, stone." http://www.dremel.com/html/home_fr.html -- Lexacorp Ltd http://www.lexacorp.com.pg Information Technology Consultancy, Software Development,System Support. From andrew.haslett at ilc.gov.au Mon Mar 15 00:10:05 2004 From: andrew.haslett at ilc.gov.au (Haslett, Andrew) Date: Mon, 15 Mar 2004 16:40:05 +1030 Subject: [AccessD] Are you part of the 98%? Message-ID: Lol. (I ended up just bending the bloody thing with some pliers -- but I'm sure it would have looked much better with something that can do all that!!) -----Original Message----- From: Stuart McLachlan [mailto:stuart at lexacorp.com.pg] Sent: Monday, 15 March 2004 4:28 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] Are you part of the 98%? On 15 Mar 2004 at 15:17, Haslett, Andrew wrote: > Green Dremel! > > (Don't even know what a Dremel is, but I had just read up on how to > fit a half-height video card into a full height slot, and they said to > use one..) > A hand held rotary grinder: "The Dremel rotary tool is lightweight and compact, which makes it very "friendly" for beginners. But it's so versatile, even hardcore do-it-yourselfers find it indispensable. This is a tool that works differently from any other tool you've ever owned. It's also the most versatile tool you'll ever use. With more than 150 available accessories, you can use it to cut, sand, shape, drill, buff, grind, polish, rout, etch, clean and more. You'll use it on all kinds of materials. Metal, wood, ceramics, glass, plastic, drywall, leather, laminates, stone." http://www.dremel.com/html/home_fr.html -- Lexacorp Ltd http://www.lexacorp.com.pg Information Technology Consultancy, Software Development,System Support. -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com IMPORTANT - PLEASE READ ******************** This email and any files transmitted with it are confidential and may contain information protected by law from disclosure. If you have received this message in error, please notify the sender immediately and delete this email from your system. No warranty is given that this email or files, if attached to this email, are free from computer viruses or other defects. They are provided on the basis the user assumes all responsibility for loss, damage or consequence resulting directly or indirectly from their use, whether caused by the negligence of the sender or not. From accessd667 at yahoo.com Mon Mar 15 00:23:12 2004 From: accessd667 at yahoo.com (S D) Date: Sun, 14 Mar 2004 22:23:12 -0800 (PST) Subject: [AccessD] Export several Export Specifications? Message-ID: <20040315062312.5180.qmail@web61104.mail.yahoo.com> Hi group, is it possible to export an export specification? '--------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 'Export export table to textfile DoCmd.TransferText acExportFixed "ECH010_Export_Specification_V2", _ "Export_Correctie_Bericht45", strExportFolder & strExportFileName, False '--------------------------------------------------------------------------------- TIA Sander Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Mail - More reliable, more storage, less spam From John.Clark at niagaracounty.com Mon Mar 15 08:06:23 2004 From: John.Clark at niagaracounty.com (John Clark) Date: Mon, 15 Mar 2004 09:06:23 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Are you part of the 98%? Message-ID: Jerry Farwell would have us believe there is correlation between "purple" and your sexual 'identity'. Then again he would have us believe we're all 'sinners' for one thing or another. Orange Pliers here! I wonder what this says about me! And those Dremel tools are awesome! I even bought one of these for my son (actually an off-brand) because it is an 'adult-type' tool that he really can't do too much damage to himself or anything else. I know he could if he tried, but he won't. John W Clark >>> Jeff at outbaktech.com 3/12/2004 11:00:27 PM >>> First thing I thought of was a purple saw Jeff Barrows Outbak Technologies, LLC Racine, WI Phone: (262) 634-0653 Mailto: jeff_developer at hotmail.com www.outbaktech.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From Mark.Mitsules at ngc.com Mon Mar 15 08:29:36 2004 From: Mark.Mitsules at ngc.com (Mitsules, Mark S. (Newport News)) Date: Mon, 15 Mar 2004 09:29:36 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Are you part of the 98%? Message-ID: I noticed the question asked for a tool and a color...but for whatever reason I did not think of them in that order. "Red Wrench" for me... Mark -----Original Message----- From: J?rgen Welz [mailto:jwelz at hotmail.com] Sent: Friday, March 12, 2004 11:30 PM To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: RE: [AccessD] Are you part of the 98%? Well. Got one out of two. I'm not in the 98 and I'm not really in the 2. I have to decide if I'm in the 0 percent or the 100 percent. Mathematically It's got to be one amongst the multitudes that make up the 100 percent. I guess it's like I always say. My glass is neither half full nor half empty.. my cup runneth over. Ciao J?rgen Welz Edmonton, Alberta jwelz at hotmail.com _________________________________________________________________ Add photos to your messages with MSN Premium. Get 2 months FREE* http://join.msn.com/?pgmarket=en-ca&page=byoa/prem&xAPID=1994&DI=1034&SU=htt p://hotmail.com/enca&HL=Market_MSNIS_Taglines -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From rusty.hammond at cpiqpc.com Mon Mar 15 09:26:17 2004 From: rusty.hammond at cpiqpc.com (rusty.hammond at cpiqpc.com) Date: Mon, 15 Mar 2004 09:26:17 -0600 Subject: [AccessD] Run a report "invisibly" Message-ID: <8301C8A868251E4C8ECD3D4FFEA40F8A0811A97A@cpixchng-1.cpiqpc.net> Mark, I would be interested in how you generated the table of contents from your report. Could you give a brief overview of what you did and/or sample code? -----Original Message----- From: Mitsules, Mark S. (Newport News) [mailto:Mark.Mitsules at ngc.com] Sent: Friday, March 12, 2004 11:32 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: [AccessD] Run a report "invisibly" Using the default print dialogue, I recently utilized the "print to file" option to generate a table of contents from code behind a HUGE report. I just deleted the print file afterwards...the generated file was all I needed. This sounds similar to your situation. Mark -----Original Message----- From: Susan Harkins [mailto:ssharkins at bellsouth.net] Sent: Friday, March 12, 2004 11:05 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: [AccessD] Run a report "invisibly" I went looking for a Print to File setting in VBA and found nothing -- surely there is one? Susan H. Hi Barbara You would still get the "Now printing report ..." message box. I would bite the bullet and work with the queries and subqueries for the export. That would probably run way faster too. /gustav > Hi, Gustav... > I wish it was a joke!!! > The report is pretty complex, with 12 subreports. There are hundreds > of calculations performed (in the report as well as all the > subreports)--- subtotals of 2 or more subreports used in calculations > in other subreports, etc. The report also outputs data to a spreadsheet. > The data in the report is (almost) exactly what I need to create an > export file requested by the client. However, I need to have a > separate interface for the export file function. I would like to > execute the report "invisibly" --- to get the data I need --- and then > just create my export file. > Is it possible to "turn off" the default printer (so the report won't > print), execute the report in Normal mode, then turn the default > printer back on? > Any other suggestions? > Thanks, > Barb > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Gustav Brock" > To: "Access Developers discussion and problem solving" > > Sent: Friday, March 12, 2004 8:51 AM > Subject: Re: [AccessD] Run a report "invisibly" >> Hi Barbara >> >> Is this a Friday joke? >> Running a report invisibly without printing it?? >> >> Well, if you insist, you must have some action code when opening or >> closing the report; pull that off the report and run it separately. >> >> /gustav >> >> >> > Is there any way to run a report invisibly (i.e., "behind the >> > scenes", > without printing it) in Access 97? The only modes available are > Preview, Normal, and Design. -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From john at winhaven.net Mon Mar 15 09:40:47 2004 From: john at winhaven.net (John Bartow) Date: Mon, 15 Mar 2004 09:40:47 -0600 Subject: [AccessD] Run a report "invisibly" In-Reply-To: <8301C8A868251E4C8ECD3D4FFEA40F8A0811A97A@cpixchng-1.cpiqpc.net> Message-ID: I think this has to be my all time favorite thread where my first reaction was "why would you want do this?" :o) Interesting! John B. -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of rusty.hammond at cpiqpc.com Sent: Monday, March 15, 2004 9:26 AM To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: RE: [AccessD] Run a report "invisibly" Mark, I would be interested in how you generated the table of contents from your report. Could you give a brief overview of what you did and/or sample code? -----Original Message----- From: Mitsules, Mark S. (Newport News) [mailto:Mark.Mitsules at ngc.com] Sent: Friday, March 12, 2004 11:32 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: [AccessD] Run a report "invisibly" Using the default print dialogue, I recently utilized the "print to file" option to generate a table of contents from code behind a HUGE report. I just deleted the print file afterwards...the generated file was all I needed. This sounds similar to your situation. Mark -----Original Message----- From: Susan Harkins [mailto:ssharkins at bellsouth.net] Sent: Friday, March 12, 2004 11:05 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: [AccessD] Run a report "invisibly" I went looking for a Print to File setting in VBA and found nothing -- surely there is one? Susan H. Hi Barbara You would still get the "Now printing report ..." message box. I would bite the bullet and work with the queries and subqueries for the export. That would probably run way faster too. /gustav > Hi, Gustav... > I wish it was a joke!!! > The report is pretty complex, with 12 subreports. There are hundreds > of calculations performed (in the report as well as all the > subreports)--- subtotals of 2 or more subreports used in calculations > in other subreports, etc. The report also outputs data to a spreadsheet. > The data in the report is (almost) exactly what I need to create an > export file requested by the client. However, I need to have a > separate interface for the export file function. I would like to > execute the report "invisibly" --- to get the data I need --- and then > just create my export file. > Is it possible to "turn off" the default printer (so the report won't > print), execute the report in Normal mode, then turn the default > printer back on? > Any other suggestions? > Thanks, > Barb > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Gustav Brock" > To: "Access Developers discussion and problem solving" > > Sent: Friday, March 12, 2004 8:51 AM > Subject: Re: [AccessD] Run a report "invisibly" >> Hi Barbara >> >> Is this a Friday joke? >> Running a report invisibly without printing it?? >> >> Well, if you insist, you must have some action code when opening or >> closing the report; pull that off the report and run it separately. >> >> /gustav >> >> >> > Is there any way to run a report invisibly (i.e., "behind the >> > scenes", > without printing it) in Access 97? The only modes available are > Preview, Normal, and Design. -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From rusty.hammond at cpiqpc.com Mon Mar 15 10:01:59 2004 From: rusty.hammond at cpiqpc.com (rusty.hammond at cpiqpc.com) Date: Mon, 15 Mar 2004 10:01:59 -0600 Subject: [AccessD] Run a report "invisibly" Message-ID: <8301C8A868251E4C8ECD3D4FFEA40F8A0811A97B@cpixchng-1.cpiqpc.net> Well if you really must know, the export to excel from an access report adds field names which I don't want in the electronic version of the report. So I thought that if I could export the data, including the subtotals and totals that I need, to a file, I could use that. Yes, I could open the query that the report is based on and spin through the recordset tallying the totals within the code, but if the report does it for me, why not use that. Also, the user is going to want a nicely formatted printed report so I could do both in one fell swoop. Rusty -----Original Message----- From: John Bartow [mailto:john at winhaven.net] Sent: Monday, March 15, 2004 9:41 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] Run a report "invisibly" I think this has to be my all time favorite thread where my first reaction was "why would you want do this?" :o) Interesting! John B. -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of rusty.hammond at cpiqpc.com Sent: Monday, March 15, 2004 9:26 AM To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: RE: [AccessD] Run a report "invisibly" Mark, I would be interested in how you generated the table of contents from your report. Could you give a brief overview of what you did and/or sample code? -----Original Message----- From: Mitsules, Mark S. (Newport News) [mailto:Mark.Mitsules at ngc.com] Sent: Friday, March 12, 2004 11:32 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: [AccessD] Run a report "invisibly" Using the default print dialogue, I recently utilized the "print to file" option to generate a table of contents from code behind a HUGE report. I just deleted the print file afterwards...the generated file was all I needed. This sounds similar to your situation. Mark -----Original Message----- From: Susan Harkins [mailto:ssharkins at bellsouth.net] Sent: Friday, March 12, 2004 11:05 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: [AccessD] Run a report "invisibly" I went looking for a Print to File setting in VBA and found nothing -- surely there is one? Susan H. Hi Barbara You would still get the "Now printing report ..." message box. I would bite the bullet and work with the queries and subqueries for the export. That would probably run way faster too. /gustav > Hi, Gustav... > I wish it was a joke!!! > The report is pretty complex, with 12 subreports. There are hundreds > of calculations performed (in the report as well as all the > subreports)--- subtotals of 2 or more subreports used in calculations > in other subreports, etc. The report also outputs data to a spreadsheet. > The data in the report is (almost) exactly what I need to create an > export file requested by the client. However, I need to have a > separate interface for the export file function. I would like to > execute the report "invisibly" --- to get the data I need --- and then > just create my export file. > Is it possible to "turn off" the default printer (so the report won't > print), execute the report in Normal mode, then turn the default > printer back on? > Any other suggestions? > Thanks, > Barb > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Gustav Brock" > To: "Access Developers discussion and problem solving" > > Sent: Friday, March 12, 2004 8:51 AM > Subject: Re: [AccessD] Run a report "invisibly" >> Hi Barbara >> >> Is this a Friday joke? >> Running a report invisibly without printing it?? >> >> Well, if you insist, you must have some action code when opening or >> closing the report; pull that off the report and run it separately. >> >> /gustav >> >> >> > Is there any way to run a report invisibly (i.e., "behind the >> > scenes", > without printing it) in Access 97? The only modes available are > Preview, Normal, and Design. -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From BarbaraRyan at cox.net Mon Mar 15 10:39:23 2004 From: BarbaraRyan at cox.net (Barbara Ryan) Date: Mon, 15 Mar 2004 11:39:23 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Run a report "invisibly" References: <8301C8A868251E4C8ECD3D4FFEA40F8A0811A97A@cpixchng-1.cpiqpc.net> Message-ID: <004301c40aac$12ae9320$0a00a8c0@cx470148a> Mark, I would also be interested in how you did this....Thanks, Barb ----- Original Message ----- From: To: Sent: Monday, March 15, 2004 10:26 AM Subject: RE: [AccessD] Run a report "invisibly" > Mark, I would be interested in how you generated the table of contents from > your report. Could you give a brief overview of what you did and/or sample > code? > > -----Original Message----- > From: Mitsules, Mark S. (Newport News) [mailto:Mark.Mitsules at ngc.com] > Sent: Friday, March 12, 2004 11:32 AM > To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' > Subject: RE: [AccessD] Run a report "invisibly" > > > Using the default print dialogue, I recently utilized the "print to file" > option to generate a table of contents from code behind a HUGE report. I > just deleted the print file afterwards...the generated file was all I > needed. > > This sounds similar to your situation. > > > > Mark > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: Susan Harkins [mailto:ssharkins at bellsouth.net] > Sent: Friday, March 12, 2004 11:05 AM > To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' > Subject: RE: [AccessD] Run a report "invisibly" > > > I went looking for a Print to File setting in VBA and found nothing -- > surely there is one? > > Susan H. > > Hi Barbara > > You would still get the "Now printing report ..." message box. > > I would bite the bullet and work with the queries and subqueries for the > export. That would probably run way faster too. > > /gustav > > > > Hi, Gustav... > > > I wish it was a joke!!! > > > The report is pretty complex, with 12 subreports. There are hundreds > > of calculations performed (in the report as well as all the > > subreports)--- subtotals of 2 or more subreports used in calculations > > in other subreports, etc. The report also outputs data to a spreadsheet. > > > The data in the report is (almost) exactly what I need to create an > > export file requested by the client. However, I need to have a > > separate interface for the export file function. I would like to > > execute the report "invisibly" --- to get the data I need --- and then > > just create my export file. > > > Is it possible to "turn off" the default printer (so the report won't > > print), execute the report in Normal mode, then turn the default > > printer back on? > > > Any other suggestions? > > > Thanks, > > Barb > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: "Gustav Brock" > > To: "Access Developers discussion and problem solving" > > > > Sent: Friday, March 12, 2004 8:51 AM > > Subject: Re: [AccessD] Run a report "invisibly" > > > >> Hi Barbara > >> > >> Is this a Friday joke? > >> Running a report invisibly without printing it?? > >> > >> Well, if you insist, you must have some action code when opening or > >> closing the report; pull that off the report and run it separately. > >> > >> /gustav > >> > >> > >> > Is there any way to run a report invisibly (i.e., "behind the > >> > scenes", > > without printing it) in Access 97? The only modes available are > > Preview, Normal, and Design. > > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From cfoust at infostatsystems.com Mon Mar 15 10:36:08 2004 From: cfoust at infostatsystems.com (Charlotte Foust) Date: Mon, 15 Mar 2004 08:36:08 -0800 Subject: [AccessD] Export several Export Specifications? Message-ID: You can import IMEX specs, which imports the records in the two IMEX system tables from a selected database, but I don't know what you hope to accomplish by exporting them. You would have to export the two tables involved, since the specs are contained in MSysIMEXSpecs and MSysIMEXColumns. Charlotte Foust -----Original Message----- From: S D [mailto:accessd667 at yahoo.com] Sent: Sunday, March 14, 2004 10:23 PM To: accessd Subject: [AccessD] Export several Export Specifications? Hi group, is it possible to export an export specification? '----------------------------------------------------------------------- ---------- 'Export export table to textfile DoCmd.TransferText acExportFixed "ECH010_Export_Specification_V2", _ "Export_Correctie_Bericht45", strExportFolder & strExportFileName, False '----------------------------------------------------------------------- ---------- TIA Sander Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Mail - More reliable, more storage, less spam -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From rl_stewart at highstream.net Mon Mar 15 10:51:15 2004 From: rl_stewart at highstream.net (Robert L. Stewart) Date: Mon, 15 Mar 2004 10:51:15 -0600 Subject: [AccessD] Re: question on normalization In-Reply-To: <200403131653.i2DGrTM04569@databaseadvisors.com> Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20040315104748.0295b000@pop3.highstream.net> Tina, Give me a couple of days (probably Wednesday) and I will send you the DDL to create everything in SQL Server, an Access MDB with the data, and an ADP with cascading comboboxes to do the data entry for the country, region (state), county/province, city, and postal code. If anyone else wants a copy, let me know and I will send them all out at the same time to save on bandwidth. Robert At 10:53 AM 3/13/2004 -0600, you wrote: >Date: Sat, 13 Mar 2004 08:17:04 -0500 >From: Tina Norris Fields >Subject: Re: [AccessD] Re: question on normalization >To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > >Message-ID: <405309D0.80502 at torchlake.com> >Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed > >Hurray for the normalization freaks! >Robert, I would like to have your zip-code database for the US. I did >download some files from the USPS that I can combine into the tables I >need, but if you have that already done, it would save me quite a bit of >work. Thank you. >Tina >P.S. I did get the naming conventions zip - although I had to get it out >of quarantine at my ISP - seems there have been some viri running around >lately masquerading as zips. >T From rl_stewart at highstream.net Mon Mar 15 10:53:30 2004 From: rl_stewart at highstream.net (Robert L. Stewart) Date: Mon, 15 Mar 2004 10:53:30 -0600 Subject: [AccessD] Re: question on normalization In-Reply-To: <200403131653.i2DGrTM04569@databaseadvisors.com> Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20040315105215.02a52068@pop3.highstream.net> Zone Improvement Plan 77418 (mine) is shared among 4 place names. At 10:53 AM 3/13/2004 -0600, you wrote: >Date: Sat, 13 Mar 2004 08:45:01 -0500 >From: Tina Norris Fields >Subject: Re: [AccessD] question on normalization >To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > >Message-ID: <4053105D.8060108 at torchlake.com> >Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed > >Okay, I just wonder what happened to the original intent of Zip codes - >wasn't that to uniquely identify delivery locations? That certainly is >what I remember - unique codes to make it possible for automatic and >correct mail sorting by machines. Hmmmmmmmmmmmm >Tina > >Charlotte Foust wrote: > > >Unfortunately, while zip codes are supposed to be unique, they may be > >shared among several small towns or a town may have multiple zip codes. > >Some buildings even have unique zip codes, but generally zip codes > >belong to post offices. I would say they were not a good candidate for > >a primary key in dealing with addresses. I've worked with postal > >databases and seen some of the "duplicate" zips, where several small > >towns share a post office and a zip code. A further complication is the > >+four extension. > > > >Charlotte Foust From cfoust at infostatsystems.com Mon Mar 15 10:58:48 2004 From: cfoust at infostatsystems.com (Charlotte Foust) Date: Mon, 15 Mar 2004 08:58:48 -0800 Subject: [AccessD] question on normalization Message-ID: Actually, what the machines sort down to is a carrier's route. The Plus 4 is supposed to get down further than that, but I haven't looked into it lately, so my knowledge of it is dusty. Charlotte Foust -----Original Message----- From: Tina Norris Fields [mailto:tinanfields at torchlake.com] Sent: Saturday, March 13, 2004 5:45 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] question on normalization Okay, I just wonder what happened to the original intent of Zip codes - wasn't that to uniquely identify delivery locations? That certainly is what I remember - unique codes to make it possible for automatic and correct mail sorting by machines. Hmmmmmmmmmmmm Tina Charlotte Foust wrote: >Unfortunately, while zip codes are supposed to be unique, they may be >shared among several small towns or a town may have multiple zip codes. >Some buildings even have unique zip codes, but generally zip codes >belong to post offices. I would say they were not a good candidate for >a primary key in dealing with addresses. I've worked with postal >databases and seen some of the "duplicate" zips, where several small >towns share a post office and a zip code. A further complication is >the >+four extension. > >Charlotte Foust > >-----Original Message----- >From: John Clark [mailto:John.Clark at niagaracounty.com] >Sent: Friday, March 12, 2004 7:03 AM >To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com >Subject: RE: [AccessD] question on normalization > > >But, in my case, it would be OK then? I will not have an issue with >them being unique. > >JW Clark > > > >>>>ssharkins at bellsouth.net 3/12/2004 9:55:22 AM >>> >>>> >>>> > > >As a sidebar--sort of--why can't the zip itself be a primary key? > >========We're told that ZIP codes aren't unique -- most are, but there >those few... I've not encountered it myself, but that's what we're >told. >;) > >Susan H. > > > -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From artful at rogers.com Mon Mar 15 14:04:01 2004 From: artful at rogers.com (Arthur Fuller) Date: Mon, 15 Mar 2004 12:04:01 -0800 Subject: [AccessD] DependentObjects class In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <023f01c40ac8$a9470f80$6501a8c0@rock> Good answer(s). Now I want to push the envelope a bit, and ensure that the framework can handle it.... On a given form I have N checkboxes or option buttons or whatever. Beside these (some subset of all the controls), I have a DateUpdated field -- classic case of Dependent Object. But I want more than that. I want to write to a table ValuesChanged, automatically (i.e. class behaviour), sending the table name, the field name, the userID and the dateTime. And have this happen as a simple result of changing said control. Arthur -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of John W. Colby Sent: Friday, March 12, 2004 2:11 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] DependentObjects class >Instead, they recommend creating a class that holds both controls as attributes of the class. This may or may not work in VBA, of course. And of course that can be done. However since the framework exists (or will!) and it has a combo class, why not allow any combo to know that something else is dependent on it, and then when it changes go requery anything that is dependent? In addition, in many cases where I have seen this sort of "one combo depends on another's value" thing done, it is IMO frequently the result of bad design at the database level. Yes, but you intentionally chose an example of normalization issues. What about companies / people / employees? As you select a different company in ComboA you want the "choice" of Employees in ComboB to change? What about Companies / payments, companies / invoices, companies... Dependent combos is SO common that it is a frequent "how do I" topic on this very list. >So in that case we're back to the custom class that embeds both combos. Absolutely possible and in fact easy using classes and Withevents. But again, all I have to do is tell the class instance for ComboA that ComboA "is dependent on it" and then whenever ComboA changes it automatically requeries ComboB. If comboC is dependent on ComboB, then when ComboB is requeried by ComboA, ComboB looks in it's dependent objects collection (or class) and requeries all of ITs dependent objects. This is a classic case of a normal framework behavior replacing custom programming. >But I do believe that designing classes that know specifics about other classes (i.e. worst of all is that they must know the name of the other class's instance) is fundamentally incorrect. The class doesn't know anything except it has a collection of objects that it needs to requery!!! No clue at all what the objects are, just that they are in its collection and it needs to call a requery method for each one. In fact the objects can be other combos, other lists, subforms, other open forms... anything in the application that is a class and as a requery method. The DEVELOPER knows that ComboB depends on ComboA and in the form's Open event tells the framework (a specific class instance). Further combos aren't the only objects that can have dependent objects. Basically anything (any control) that can be referenced by the SQL of another control can have dependent objects. A text box can be referenced by a combo so it can have a dependent objects class. Likewise a checkbox, a radio button, ANYTHING that can be referenced by SQL in the recordset for a control or form. Stick around for the discussion, we are about to add that functionality to our "framework" (it isn't a framework yet!) so you can see what I am talking about. John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Arthur Fuller Sent: Friday, March 12, 2004 1:49 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: [AccessD] DependentObjects class Further, in the O-O courses that I have taken this kind of thing is specifically discouraged because it tightly couples the controls. Instead, they recommend creating creating a class that holds both controls as attributes of the class. This may or may not work in VBA, of course. In addition, in many cases where I have seen this sort of "one combo depends on another's value" thing done, it is IMO frequently the result of bad design at the database level. For example, a table contains say State and City fields, populated from the tables States and Cities -- and then the UI filters the Cities field on the basis of the State selection: bad design, IMO. There's no need to store the State, since we have the city, and New York exists in only one state. On the other hand, take the case of ProductCategories and Products. At the database level, IMO, the same pertains: do not store the category since it can be inferred from the product. However, it may well be useful for the user to select a category and then a product from said category. So in that case we're back to the custom class that embeds both combos. I don't know if that approach can work in Access. I leave that to JC to determine. But I do believe that designing classes that know specifics about other classes (i.e. worst of all is that they must know the name of the other class's instance) is fundamentally incorrect. Just my $.02 Arthur -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Stuart McLachlan Sent: Wednesday, March 10, 2004 9:40 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problemsolving Subject: Re: [AccessD] DependentObjects class On 11 Mar 2004 at 0:11, John W. Colby wrote: > I am working on a dependentobjects class, i.e. a class with a > collection which holds objects (classes) where the control or form is > dependent on the current control. Combo A changes. Combo B uses > Combo A to filter itself. Combo B is "dependent" on combo A and must > be requeried whenever Combo A changes. > > This is a case where I programmed a solution working but it was ugly. > How would you solve this problem? > I doubt if I would do it with a class. It's not *that* common a requirement and there are so many different ways that you can end up with circular references, CtlA - CtlB - CtlC - CtlD...... CtlX - CtlC etc that trying to allow for them would end up with such code bolat that the whole thing became inefficient. -- Lexacorp Ltd http://www.lexacorp.com.pg Information Technology Consultancy, Software Development,System Support. -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From DWUTKA at marlow.com Mon Mar 15 11:22:54 2004 From: DWUTKA at marlow.com (DWUTKA at marlow.com) Date: Mon, 15 Mar 2004 11:22:54 -0600 Subject: [AccessD] Framework Discussion - Who's following this Message-ID: <2F8793082E00D4119A1700B0D0216BF80222796D@main2.marlow.com> If you want to use early binding, you can do something like this: (FWControl Class) Option Explicit Property Get SomeValue() As Long End Property Property Let SomeValue(intEnter As Long) End Property Public Function RunSomething() End Function (FWCombo Class) Option Explicit Implements FWControl Dim intTemp As Long Private Function FWControl_RunSomething() As Variant intTemp = intTemp * 2 End Function Private Property Let FWControl_SomeValue(RHS As Long) intTemp = RHS End Property Private Property Get FWControl_SomeValue() As Long FWControl_SomeValue = intTemp End Property Public Function ComboSpecific() intTemp = 100 End Function The combo specific function is going to set the 'SomeValue' property to 100. With late binding, you can use one variable. However, Intellisense won't pick that up. You can, however, use 2 variables, with early binding, to represent the same object. Take the two classes above. FWCombo Implements FWControl. So if we want to work with a FWControl, that has FWCombo specific capabilities: dim fw As FWControl dim fwc As FWCombo set fw=New FWCombo set fwc=fw fw.SomeValue=6 fw.RunSomething msgbox fw.SomeValue fwc.ComboSpecific msgbox fw.SomeValue Note, two variables, pointing to the same object. FW is the 'generic' implemented class, and fwc is the more specific class. Drew -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of John W. Colby Sent: Friday, March 12, 2004 7:13 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] Framework Discussion - Who's following this Drew, I am open to interfaces, assuming that you can present a case for a significant advantage. What do I gain by implements? Other than being able to treat the objects as a custom type (class) rather than an object what have I gained? Am I getting early binding out of this so that Intellisense works? If so can I "get at" all of the class properties, i.e. not just those implemented? IOW, if I say: Set FWObj = New FWComboBox can I then say FWObj.ComboClassSpecificProperty? That would definitely be cool, and powerful. At the moment when I pass an object, I get late binding so I can't really tell if I am getting a valid method, passing valid parameters etc. until I test it out at runtime. Implements and interfaces adds another level of complexity that even I don't understand. My audience here may already be struggling with just figuring out classes and withevents. If I am going to throw in Interfaces and Implements (and learn it myself) it has to be for a darned good reason. John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com Something I'd like to ask, in an earlier post, you were explaining how you were 'linking' your Class objects. Just out of curiousity, why not do something like this: FrameWorkControl Class: Option Compare Database Property Set LinkedObject(objTemp As Object) End Property Public Function CleanUp() End Function Property Get ObjectName() As String End Property Property Get ObjectType() As String End Property FWComboBox Class: Option Compare Database Implements FrameWorkControl Dim WithEvents lnkObject As ComboBox Private Function FrameWorkControl_CleanUp() As Variant Set lnkObject = Nothing End Function Private Property Set FrameWorkControl_LinkedObject(RHS As Object) Set lnkObject = RHS lnkObject.OnClick = "[Event Procedure]" End Property Private Property Get FrameWorkControl_ObjectName() As String FrameWorkControl_ObjectName = lnkObject.Name End Property Private Property Get FrameWorkControl_ObjectType() As String FrameWorkControl_ObjectType = "ComboBox" End Property Private Sub lnkObject_Click() MsgBox lnkObject.Name End Sub FWTextBox Class: Option Compare Database Implements FrameWorkControl Dim WithEvents lnkObject As TextBox Private Function FrameWorkControl_CleanUp() As Variant Set lnkObject = Nothing End Function Private Property Set FrameWorkControl_LinkedObject(RHS As Object) Set lnkObject = RHS lnkObject.OnClick = "[Event Procedure]" End Property Private Property Get FrameWorkControl_ObjectName() As String FrameWorkControl_ObjectName = lnkObject.Name End Property Private Property Get FrameWorkControl_ObjectType() As String FrameWorkControl_ObjectType = "TextBox" End Property Private Sub lnkObject_Click() MsgBox lnkObject.Name End Sub Example Form Code: Dim FrameWorkObjects As Collection Private Sub Form_Load() Dim FWObj As FrameWorkControl Dim ctrl As Control Dim blValidControl As Boolean Set FrameWorkObjects = New Collection For Each ctrl In Me.Controls blValidControl = False If TypeOf ctrl Is TextBox Then Set FWObj = New FWTextBox blValidControl = True End If If TypeOf ctrl Is ComboBox Then Set FWObj = New FWComboBox blValidControl = True End If If blValidControl Then Set FWObj.LinkedObject = ctrl FrameWorkObjects.Add FWObj, FWObj.ObjectName Set FWObj = Nothing End If Next End Sub -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From DWUTKA at marlow.com Mon Mar 15 11:48:42 2004 From: DWUTKA at marlow.com (DWUTKA at marlow.com) Date: Mon, 15 Mar 2004 11:48:42 -0600 Subject: [AccessD] Combo on Continuous Form Message-ID: <2F8793082E00D4119A1700B0D0216BF80222796F@main2.marlow.com> Ran into a similar situation this weekend. I was building a PO system. I have a table that lists the parts that are 'needed'. I then wanted to open a continuous form, and have a combo for each 'group' of parts (it summed the quantities requested, grouped by part number and Job number) which displays the list of available vendors for that part. Ran into all sorts of problems. What I ended up doing, was instead of using a 'natural' continuous form, I created my own 'continuous' form. Sure, it took an extra hour to build it, but what I ended up with was a form much easier to control. Drew -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Mark A Matte Sent: Wednesday, March 10, 2004 3:50 PM To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: RE: [AccessD] Combo on Continuous Form Because the form I'm building will be the same form for multiple products...but each product will have different attributes...and different values available depending on the product and the attribute. So the dropdown on each row will have different values...depending on what attribute is on that row. Thanks, Mark >From: "Jim DeMarco" >Reply-To: Access Developers discussion and problem >solving >To: "Access Developers discussion and problem solving" > >Subject: RE: [AccessD] Combo on Continuous Form >Date: Wed, 10 Mar 2004 10:28:35 -0500 > >Mark, > >Why not put it in the form Header instead? > >Jim DeMarco > >-----Original Message----- >From: Mark A Matte [mailto:markamatte at hotmail.com] >Sent: Tuesday, March 09, 2004 9:58 PM >To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com >Subject: [AccessD] Combo on Continuous Form > > >Hello, > >In A2k I want a combo box on a each row of the continuous form that filters >by the current record on that continuous form. Suggestions anyone? > >Thanks, > >Mark > >_________________________________________________________________ >Get business advice and resources to improve your work life, from bCentral. >http://special.msn.com/bcentral/loudclear.armx > >-- >_______________________________________________ >AccessD mailing list >AccessD at databaseadvisors.com >http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd >Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > > > >*************************************************************************** ******** >"This electronic message is intended to be for the use only of the named >recipient, and may contain information from Hudson Health Plan (HHP) that >is confidential or privileged. If you are not the intended recipient, you >are hereby notified that any disclosure, copying, distribution or use of >the contents of this message is strictly prohibited. If you have received >this message in error or are not the named recipient, please notify us >immediately, either by contacting the sender at the electronic mail address >noted above or calling HHP at (914) 631-1611. If you are not the intended >recipient, please do not forward this email to anyone, and delete and >destroy all copies of this message. Thank You". >*************************************************************************** ******** > >-- >_______________________________________________ >AccessD mailing list >AccessD at databaseadvisors.com >http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd >Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com _________________________________________________________________ FREE pop-up blocking with the new MSN Toolbar - get it now! http://clk.atdmt.com/AVE/go/onm00200415ave/direct/01/ -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From michael.broesdorf at web.de Mon Mar 15 12:10:32 2004 From: michael.broesdorf at web.de (=?iso-8859-1?Q?Michael_Br=F6sdorf?=) Date: Mon, 15 Mar 2004 19:10:32 +0100 Subject: [AccessD] Access 2003 Developer Edition? In-Reply-To: <2F8793082E00D4119A1700B0D0216BF80222796F@main2.marlow.com> Message-ID: Hello, I noticed that there seems to no more Office 2003 Developers Edition. Is it still possible to create Run-Time applications with Access 2003? ` Michael From jarus at amerinet-gpo.com Mon Mar 15 12:14:21 2004 From: jarus at amerinet-gpo.com (Terri Jarus) Date: Mon, 15 Mar 2004 12:14:21 -0600 Subject: [AccessD] FMS Total Access Memo Question Message-ID: Is anybody using this software? I purchased it a few weeks ago and I'm running into some issues of which I was unaware. My key reason for getting this software was to have the ability to format memo fields and then export them to Word. However, I was unaware of the difficulty in doing this. Is there some other 3rd party software that allows this functionality? Thanks for any hints, tips or advice. Terri Jarus Director, Contract Support Services jarus at amerinet-gpo.com 314-542-1902 --------------------------------------------------------------------------- This email and any files transmitted with it are confidential and intended solely for the use of the individuals or entities to whom they are addressed. If you have received this email in error please return it to the sender, and erase any copies thereof. Copyright 2004 Amerinet 1nc. From ggonzalez at cccis.com Mon Mar 15 12:16:38 2004 From: ggonzalez at cccis.com (ggonzalez at cccis.com) Date: Mon, 15 Mar 2004 12:16:38 -0600 Subject: [AccessD] Unzipping files Programmatically In-Reply-To: Message-ID: I am tying to unzip files programmatically, but don't know where to start. Can anyone point me in the right direction TIA, Gumaro From cfoust at infostatsystems.com Mon Mar 15 12:30:59 2004 From: cfoust at infostatsystems.com (Charlotte Foust) Date: Mon, 15 Mar 2004 10:30:59 -0800 Subject: [AccessD] Access 2003 Developer Edition? Message-ID: You need the Visual Studio Tools for Office 2003, as well as Access 2003, to create runtimes. There is no developer's edition for 2003. Charlotte Foust -----Original Message----- From: Michael Br?sdorf [mailto:michael.broesdorf at web.de] Sent: Monday, March 15, 2004 10:11 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: [AccessD] Access 2003 Developer Edition? Hello, I noticed that there seems to no more Office 2003 Developers Edition. Is it still possible to create Run-Time applications with Access 2003? ` Michael -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From artful at rogers.com Mon Mar 15 15:32:22 2004 From: artful at rogers.com (Arthur Fuller) Date: Mon, 15 Mar 2004 13:32:22 -0800 Subject: [AccessD] Set up tables - Please Help In-Reply-To: <20040313160451.HCCL13717.imf16aec.mail.bellsouth.net@SUSANONE> Message-ID: <024001c40ad5$04d27630$6501a8c0@rock> I'll toss in my $.02 here, SSH.... You assume that a given entity cannot be a Buyer, a Requestor and a Vendor simultaneously, or any two of same. I'd go with preserving most of your notion -- placing them all in a single table -- and attach to that a child table (or alternatively three yes/no fields) depicting the entity type. If we are guaranteed that there will emerge no new entity types in the forseeable future, the columns will be quicker. If at any moment there might emerge a new entity type, then I'd go with the child table. Arthur -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Susan Harkins Sent: Saturday, March 13, 2004 8:05 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: [AccessD] Set up tables - Please Help Virginia, is the data basically the same for everyone? What kind of data are you storing for each buyer, requestor, and vendor because you could just dump them all in one table and then flag each as a buyer, requestor or vendor using some kind of id value. That's one way to go. Or, you could have a separate table for each -- and you should if the data is significantly different for each to avoid all those blanks where data doesn't apply to one type. So, do you have a separate table for the following as well: contracts, business type, and account type? The two latter sound like classic lookup tables. Susan H. Can someone please help me - I am having the hardest time setting up my tables for this new vendor program. I have tried making a main vendor table but when I try to put the data all together, my form is blank and you can't add any records. I am so frustrated with this whole thing. I keep telling myself it shouldn't be this hard! A request has a buyer, requestor, and a Vendor. A Vendor has a contact, type of business, and an account type. Sounds so easy.... well, every way I try I get ZERO data. Virginia -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From cfoust at infostatsystems.com Mon Mar 15 12:34:23 2004 From: cfoust at infostatsystems.com (Charlotte Foust) Date: Mon, 15 Mar 2004 10:34:23 -0800 Subject: [AccessD] Unzipping files Programmatically Message-ID: I believe you're going to need to program calls to the library for the zip product you're using. At least, that's how we do it using DynaZip. Charlotte Foust -----Original Message----- From: ggonzalez at cccis.com [mailto:ggonzalez at cccis.com] Sent: Monday, March 15, 2004 10:17 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Unzipping files Programmatically I am tying to unzip files programmatically, but don't know where to start. Can anyone point me in the right direction TIA, Gumaro -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From orthorabod at yahoo.com Mon Mar 15 12:38:51 2004 From: orthorabod at yahoo.com (Dick Abo) Date: Mon, 15 Mar 2004 10:38:51 -0800 (PST) Subject: [AccessD] Detecting when an Access Report has been closed! Message-ID: <20040315183851.5477.qmail@web13012.mail.yahoo.com> I have a form from which the user views a report in Print Preview mode by clicking the ?View Report? button. I would like user to respond to the question to ?Publish?, or ?Not Publish? the report after the report is viewed. If the user decides to Publish the report, I export the report to Word and then save it in Ascii format (MS-DOS text w/layout). I could incorporate a separate button on the form that just generates the Access 2000 report in acPreview mode. I would prefer to detect when the report has been closed by the user so that I can then ask the question, ?Publish or Not Publish? the report and to execute the remaining code that is behind the existing ?View Report? button? Can you kindly give me some advice on how to do this! TIA, Rick Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Mail - More reliable, more storage, less spam From Mark.Mitsules at ngc.com Mon Mar 15 12:43:04 2004 From: Mark.Mitsules at ngc.com (Mitsules, Mark S. (Newport News)) Date: Mon, 15 Mar 2004 13:43:04 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Mark's TOC Was: Run a report "invisibly" Message-ID: >> Mark, I would be interested in how you generated the table of contents from your report. Could you give a brief overview of what you did and/or sample code? << >> Mark, I would also be interested in how you did this....Thanks, Barb << This began in a thread titled "A2K2 - Report Grouping - Page Numbering". I was searching for a method to generate custom page numbering. Jim Dettman was able to push me in the right direction. That thread will provide all the background as well as the code I utilized. Essentially, the page numbers are generated programmatically each time the report is run. The page numbers are fed into text boxes in the page footer during the PageFooterSection_Format event. Once the report matured to a "ready to issue" state, I utilized the On Page event (posted again below...watch for line wrap) to write the Group Header items and corresponding page numbers to a file, thus creating a table of contents. I must retract an earlier post where I indicated utilizing the "Print to File" option to generate a Table of Contents. Initially, I recall wanting to utilize that option, because, of course, it would be faster. However, after re-reading some of my earlier posts, I now remember that it was because of the inherit speed differences between running the code and writing to a text file, the page numbers could not keep in sync. The work-around was to call the report up in preview mode and manually page through the report. Sorry for the mis-direction. Probably clear as mud by now, so please ask for clarification if needed. Mark ' ***************************************************** ' *** FOR THE FINAL PRINT *** ' *** REMOVED THE ON PAGE EVENT THAT BUILDS THE TOC *** ' ***************************************************** 'Private Sub Report_Page() ' Dim strOutputFile As String ' Dim strPath As String ' ' strPath = "C:\Temp2\" ' strOutputFile = "DA4700-3808_PageNumbers.txt" ' ' Open strPath & strOutputFile For Append As #2 ' ' 'IOQSXZ are intentionally removed from the list below. ' strPageNumber = Trim(Format$(intMajor, "###") & Mid$(" ABCDEFGHJKLMNPRTUVWY", intMinor, 1)) ' ' Write #2, strLeadDesignation & " " & strPageNumber ' Close #2 ' 'End Sub From cfoust at infostatsystems.com Mon Mar 15 12:48:37 2004 From: cfoust at infostatsystems.com (Charlotte Foust) Date: Mon, 15 Mar 2004 10:48:37 -0800 Subject: [AccessD] Detecting when an Access Report has been closed! Message-ID: You can sink the Close event of the report on your form using the WithEvents keyword. Check out WithEvents in on-line help (and in the archives for extensive discussion). If you need additional help, post back. Charlotte Foust -----Original Message----- From: Dick Abo [mailto:orthorabod at yahoo.com] Sent: Monday, March 15, 2004 10:39 AM To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Cc: orthorabod at yahoo.com Subject: [AccessD] Detecting when an Access Report has been closed! I have a form from which the user views a report in Print Preview mode by clicking the 'View Report' button. I would like user to respond to the question to 'Publish', or 'Not Publish' the report after the report is viewed. If the user decides to Publish the report, I export the report to Word and then save it in Ascii format (MS-DOS text w/layout). I could incorporate a separate button on the form that just generates the Access 2000 report in acPreview mode. I would prefer to detect when the report has been closed by the user so that I can then ask the question, "Publish or Not Publish" the report and to execute the remaining code that is behind the existing 'View Report' button? Can you kindly give me some advice on how to do this! TIA, Rick Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Mail - More reliable, more storage, less spam -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From markamatte at hotmail.com Mon Mar 15 12:56:32 2004 From: markamatte at hotmail.com (Mark A Matte) Date: Mon, 15 Mar 2004 18:56:32 +0000 Subject: [AccessD] Combo on Continuous Form Message-ID: Drew, The approach I took was to use a bound textbox over the unbound combo...there were a few little quirks to over come...when the textbox got focus, I made the combo dropdown...when you left the subform containing the combo...the last record that had focus displayed the value chosen on the record before...overcame this one by using the OnExit of the subform and setting focus to a different field on the sub and setting the value of the combo to null. Overall...I reached the desired outcome...but it was tricky getting there. Thanks for everyone's help. ...and if you don't mind sharing...I would love to see a sample of the form you came up with. Thanks, Mark A. Matte >From: DWUTKA at marlow.com >Reply-To: Access Developers discussion and problem >solving >To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com >Subject: RE: [AccessD] Combo on Continuous Form >Date: Mon, 15 Mar 2004 11:48:42 -0600 > >Ran into a similar situation this weekend. I was building a PO system. I >have a table that lists the parts that are 'needed'. I then wanted to open >a continuous form, and have a combo for each 'group' of parts (it summed >the >quantities requested, grouped by part number and Job number) which displays >the list of available vendors for that part. Ran into all sorts of >problems. > >What I ended up doing, was instead of using a 'natural' continuous form, I >created my own 'continuous' form. Sure, it took an extra hour to build it, >but what I ended up with was a form much easier to control. > >Drew > >-----Original Message----- >From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com >[mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Mark A Matte >Sent: Wednesday, March 10, 2004 3:50 PM >To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com >Subject: RE: [AccessD] Combo on Continuous Form > > > >Because the form I'm building will be the same form for multiple >products...but each product will have different attributes...and different >values available depending on the product and the attribute. So the >dropdown on each row will have different values...depending on what >attribute is on that row. > >Thanks, > >Mark > > >From: "Jim DeMarco" > >Reply-To: Access Developers discussion and problem > >solving > >To: "Access Developers discussion and problem solving" > > > >Subject: RE: [AccessD] Combo on Continuous Form > >Date: Wed, 10 Mar 2004 10:28:35 -0500 > > > >Mark, > > > >Why not put it in the form Header instead? > > > >Jim DeMarco > > > >-----Original Message----- > >From: Mark A Matte [mailto:markamatte at hotmail.com] > >Sent: Tuesday, March 09, 2004 9:58 PM > >To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com > >Subject: [AccessD] Combo on Continuous Form > > > > > >Hello, > > > >In A2k I want a combo box on a each row of the continuous form that >filters > > >by the current record on that continuous form. Suggestions anyone? > > > >Thanks, > > > >Mark > > > >_________________________________________________________________ > >Get business advice and resources to improve your work life, from >bCentral. > > >http://special.msn.com/bcentral/loudclear.armx > > > >-- > >_______________________________________________ > >AccessD mailing list > >AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > >http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > >Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > > > > > > > > > > >*************************************************************************** >******** > >"This electronic message is intended to be for the use only of the named > >recipient, and may contain information from Hudson Health Plan (HHP) that > >is confidential or privileged. If you are not the intended recipient, >you > >are hereby notified that any disclosure, copying, distribution or use of > >the contents of this message is strictly prohibited. If you have >received > >this message in error or are not the named recipient, please notify us > >immediately, either by contacting the sender at the electronic mail >address > > >noted above or calling HHP at (914) 631-1611. If you are not the intended > >recipient, please do not forward this email to anyone, and delete and > >destroy all copies of this message. Thank You". > >*************************************************************************** >******** > > > >-- > >_______________________________________________ > >AccessD mailing list > >AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > >http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > >Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > >_________________________________________________________________ >FREE pop-up blocking with the new MSN Toolbar - get it now! >http://clk.atdmt.com/AVE/go/onm00200415ave/direct/01/ > >-- >_______________________________________________ >AccessD mailing list >AccessD at databaseadvisors.com >http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd >Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com >-- >_______________________________________________ >AccessD mailing list >AccessD at databaseadvisors.com >http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd >Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com _________________________________________________________________ One-click access to Hotmail from any Web page ? download MSN Toolbar now! http://clk.atdmt.com/AVE/go/onm00200413ave/direct/01/ From martyconnelly at shaw.ca Mon Mar 15 13:30:46 2004 From: martyconnelly at shaw.ca (MartyConnelly) Date: Mon, 15 Mar 2004 11:30:46 -0800 Subject: [AccessD] Access 2003 Developer Edition? References: Message-ID: <40560466.1080601@shaw.ca> The Access 2003 runtime ships with any version of Office 2003 that has Access 2003, the license to redistribute solutions with the Access runtime is available exclusively through the Access Developer Extensions. The Access Developer Extensions include the Package Wizard and other developer-oriented tools. The Package Wizard creates a package based on an Access 2003 solution that users can install and uninstall with the Microsoft Windows Installer. You can only acquire the Access Developer Extensions by buying the "Visual Studio Tools for the Microsoft Office System". http://msdn.microsoft.com/vstudio/office Packaging Access 2003 Solutions Rick Dobson http://msdn.microsoft.com/library/default.asp?url=/library/en-us/dnsmart03/html/sa03j8.asp Michael Br?sdorf wrote: >Hello, > >I noticed that there seems to no more Office 2003 Developers Edition. Is it >still possible to create Run-Time applications with Access 2003? >` >Michael > > > -- Marty Connelly Victoria, B.C. Canada From DWUTKA at marlow.com Mon Mar 15 13:38:34 2004 From: DWUTKA at marlow.com (DWUTKA at marlow.com) Date: Mon, 15 Mar 2004 13:38:34 -0600 Subject: [AccessD] DependentObjects class Message-ID: <2F8793082E00D4119A1700B0D0216BF802227970@main2.marlow.com> Sounds like a case of withevents. I built an inventory system for a customer, which held a few 'global' classes. One such class was the Inventory itself. When the application started, it created a global Inventory class. Then, whenever I had a form that utilized the Inventory, instead of using separate code, I set a 'withevents' reference to the global Inventory class. That way, I not only could use the Inventory Classes prebuilt code to display inventory, but I could also sink the 'InventoryUpdated' event, in every form that used Inventory. By using the global Inventory class to update inventory, I would simply raise the 'InventoryUpdated' event, to alert any and all open forms that inventory has been changed. Drew -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of John W. Colby Sent: Wednesday, March 10, 2004 11:11 PM To: AccessD Subject: [AccessD] DependentObjects class I am working on a dependentobjects class, i.e. a class with a collection which holds objects (classes) where the control or form is dependent on the current control. Combo A changes. Combo B uses Combo A to filter itself. Combo B is "dependent" on combo A and must be requeried whenever Combo A changes. There is a case where two combos on a form may display data from the same table. For example two combos both display cities from the cities lookup table. If Combo A NotInList adds a new city. Combo B needs to requery in order to display that new city if necessary. However if Combo B adds the city, then Combo A needs to requery. Obviously if we add combo A to combo B's DependentObject collection and we add Combo B to Combo A's dependent object collection, then we start an endless loop where A requeries B which requeries A which requeries B... This is a case where I programmed a solution working but it was ugly. How would you solve this problem? John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From jimdettman at earthlink.net Mon Mar 15 13:58:16 2004 From: jimdettman at earthlink.net (Jim Dettman) Date: Mon, 15 Mar 2004 14:58:16 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Framework Discussion - Dependent Objects In-Reply-To: Message-ID: John, << Our wrapper allows us to do nothing more than add custom functionality to THAT wrapped object. >> So you'll end up with lots of classes, unless I mis-understanding your intent. For example let's start with a base text box class. In a typical app, you can have text boxes that can be used for: 1. Text input 2. Input of a short date 3. Input of a short date and time #2 and #3 are variations of #1 and contain some of the same behaviors and methods. So at the frame work level, I'm going to provide three classes or I'm going to do one class (text box) and overload it with properties to accomplish #2 and #3. But what your not doing is starting with #1, then creating #2 and #3 based on #1. I'm also assuming that it's not your intent to do a lot of instance specific behaviors. For example, if I want to add a popup calendar to all my text boxes that work with a date, I can't do that easily if I stuck with a single text box class and handled date/time issues at the instance level. In that case, I should not have bothered with a framework at all, but instead create tools to manipulate instance specific items. In fact now that I say that, I'm wondering how you would roll out new versions of the Framework. If I as a developer have no choice but to modify your classes (because it's a single layer) and you distribute a new version, how can I easily implement it? The only alternative is to provide a large number of hook procedures that your class calls to find out if the developer wants to change anything. Anyway, excluding the last two options, this means that if you go the three class route, you are coding the "text box" behavior (i.e. background color when active) in three places, thus eliminating some of the benefits of doing it in the first place. If you do one class, you end up with a lot of code, some of which you might not always be need. It also increases the complexity of the text box class. Even with the limited OO capabilities of Access, there are still design issues in how to approach a framework that will have an impact on performance. The other issue you mentioned (object cleanup) also bears directly on performance, which is what initially prompted my comment. Jim (315) 699-3443 jimdettman at earthlink.net -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of John W. Colby Sent: Saturday, March 13, 2004 8:43 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] Framework Discussion - Dependent Objects Jim, What I think that you are forgetting is that VFP. like .NET is a system with true inheritance. Access is not. Thus with VFP or .Net you can get bogged down with classes inheriting classes inheriting classes inheriting classes inheriting.. And of course all that inheritance has to be "built up" as the classes load. Access has none of that. Nothing inherits anything. What a framework in Access really provides is nothing more than objects (classes) written for a specific purpose, to perform specific processing. Often they are wrappers around objects that have no classes of their own allowing us to "simulate" in a very crude sense inheriting the object, but the "inheritance chain" comes to a screeching halt immediately unless of course you were to write a wrapper to a wrapper to a wrapper. Our wrapper allows us to do nothing more than add custom functionality to THAT wrapped object. Of course a class can instantiate another class to obtain encapsulated services that it needs but that is hardly the same thing as what you are referring to. In the end, my current framework has... 45 classes (I just went and counted them). Of that number, 17 are wrappers to the various controls and the form. The rest are "services" of one type or another - FTP, HTTP, Zip, Unzip, Enigma, MD5, Sysvars, Timer, AuditTrail, DependentObjects etc. Access is NOT a true OO environment. It has objects, of which you manipulate methods and properties, however true inheritance is virtually nonexistent. The issues that you refer to with VFP and .NET simply cannot occur in Access because of that. Believe me, given my druthers I'd take true inheritance and deal with the speed issue that might occur. John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Jim Dettman Sent: Saturday, March 13, 2004 5:38 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] Framework Discussion - Dependent Objects John, <> "Useable" was probably a poor choice of words on my part. I was really thinking in terms of features. I slid into "useable" in the sense that by the time you add everything that everyone might want, you've got everything except the kitchen sink. << Would you notice an additional 1/50th of a second for the framework to do it's thing?>> I only mention it because as you get further down the road and into composite classes, there gets to be a design decision in regards to how a framework should be structured for what offers. The out come of that can have a large impact on performance. This is one of the hot button issues with VFP frameworks, which you know are quite a bit farther down the framework road. Considering that VFP is a true compile and it's an issue there, I don't see how it could not be an issue at some point with VBA. Jim (315) 699-3443 jimdettman at earthlink.net -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From martyconnelly at shaw.ca Mon Mar 15 14:01:29 2004 From: martyconnelly at shaw.ca (MartyConnelly) Date: Mon, 15 Mar 2004 12:01:29 -0800 Subject: [AccessD] question on normalization References: Message-ID: <40560B99.5010809@shaw.ca> I have code for a soap version but the eraserver.com service has gone down. Overuse? Probably. The commercial USPS site uses a proprietary WinInet DLL with a HTTP post request. You have to register for the service get license keys and is a bit awkward to use. http://www.usps.com/zip4/ http://www.usps.com/webtools/address.htm Here is code for another commercial site www.cdyne.com cost $0.01 per inquiry. There is a test service and I think you are limited to a certain number of free calls per day You can use XPath or nodes to parse out the xml returned. Sub test() Dim strOut As String Dim strAddress As String Dim strCity As String Dim strState As String Dim strZip As String Dim strXMLAll As String strOut = "" strXMLAll = "" strAddress = "3 Quixote Court" strCity = "Santa Rosab" strState = "CA" strZip = "95409" strOut = AddrCorrect(strAddress, strCity, strState, strZip, strXMLAll) Debug.Print strOut Debug.Print "*" & strZip & "*" End Sub Public Function AddrCorrect(ByRef address As String, ByRef city As String, ByRef state As String, ByRef zip As String, ByRef strXMLAll As String, Optional LicenseKey As String) As String Dim oXMLHTTP As MSXML2.XMLHTTP LicenseKey = 0 ' Call the web service to get an XML document Set oXMLHTTP = New MSXML2.XMLHTTP oXMLHTTP.Open "POST", _ "http://ws.cdyne.com/psaddress/addresslookup.asmx/CheckAddress", False oXMLHTTP.setRequestHeader "Content-Type", _ "application/x-www-form-urlencoded" oXMLHTTP.send "AddressLine=" & URLEncode(address) & "&ZipCode=" & URLEncode(zip) & "&City=" & URLEncode(city) & "&StateAbbrev=" & URLEncode(state) & "&LicenseKey=" & URLEncode(LicenseKey) If oXMLHTTP.status <> 200 Then MsgBox "Service Unavailable. Try again later" Set oXMLHTTP = Nothing Exit Function End If Dim oDOM As MSXML2.DOMDocument Set oDOM = oXMLHTTP.responseXML Debug.Print oXMLHTTP.responseText strXMLAll = oXMLHTTP.responseText Dim oNL As MSXML2.IXMLDOMNodeList Dim oCN As MSXML2.IXMLDOMNode Dim oCC As MSXML2.IXMLDOMNode Set oNL = oDOM.getElementsByTagName("Address") For Each oCN In oNL For Each oCC In oCN.childNodes Select Case LCase(oCC.nodeName) Case "serviceerror" If CBool(oCC.Text) = True Then AddrCorrect = "Service Error. Try again Later" GoTo leaveit End If Case "addresserror" If CBool(oCC.Text) = True Then AddrCorrect = "Address uncorrectable." GoTo leaveit End If Case "servicecurrentlyunavailable" If CBool(oCC.Text) = True Then AddrCorrect = "Service Unavailable. Try again Later" GoTo leaveit End If Case "addressfoundbemorespecific" If CBool(oCC.Text) = True Then AddrCorrect = "Address Found. Be more Specific." GoTo leaveit End If Case "deliveryaddress" address = oCC.Text Case "city" city = oCC.Text Case "stateabbrev" state = oCC.Text Case "zipcode" zip = oCC.Text End Select Next Next AddrCorrect = "OK" ' Address corrected leaveit: Set oCC = Nothing Set oCN = Nothing Set oNL = Nothing Set oDOM = Nothing Set oXMLHTTP = Nothing End Function Public Function URLEncode(inS As String) As String Dim i As Long Dim inC, outC As String For i = 1 To Len(inS) inC = Mid(inS, i, 1) Select Case inC Case " " outC = "+" Case "&" outC = "%38" Case "!" To "~" outC = inC Case Else outC = "%" + Right("00" + Hex(Asc(inC)), 2) End Select URLEncode = URLEncode + outC Next i End Function What it returns. test
false false 3 QUIXOTE CT 1 99 B SANTA ROSA CA 95409-4311 false C066 SONOMA 03 4 f9540943114f true Z22876 S 06 06097 056996 -122.644996 38.467710 -122.644595 38.467310 -122.6447955 38.467510 7362 7500 7500 084 PST true 707 90 97 SANTA ROSA 4013 1526.00 3 QUIXOTE CT
OK *95409-4311* John W. Colby wrote: >uhhh... do you have code to do this? I am fresh out of soap, my 3 year old >son was playing with it and... well.... let's just say he's one clean little >boy! ;-) > >John W. Colby >www.ColbyConsulting.com > >-----Original Message----- >From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com >[mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of MartyConnelly >Sent: Thursday, March 11, 2004 9:30 PM >To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving >Subject: Re: [AccessD] question on normalization > > >There are three or four good web services like USPS that provide this >info, live via a soap call, of course you need an internet connection. >You can interrogate these services from Access with just XML and a SOAP >envelope over HTTP. You dont need all the soap toolkit jazz unless you >want to write the proxy classes. >They will also verify that the address is valid too. Such as street name >spelling and number range. You can also buy the info via quarterly CD's. > > >John W. Colby wrote: > > > >>David, >> >>Did you fill in this table with which Zips were in which town etc.? Or is >>there a standard db out there somewhere with this stuff? >> >>John W. Colby >>www.ColbyConsulting.com >> >>-----Original Message----- >>From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com >>[mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of David McAfee >>Sent: Thursday, March 11, 2004 3:49 PM >>To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' >>Subject: RE: [AccessD] question on normalization >> >> >>I our last system, we had a Zipcode table with 5 fields (and 45K+ records): >>ZipID (PK Autonumber) >>ZipCode (text,5) >>City (text, 30) >>State (text, 2) >>DefaultCity (yes/no) >> >>I would look up a city based on zipcode entry. One of three results could >>happen: >> >>0 records returned: Prompt to check if zipcode entry (later evolved into >>adding new city) >>1 record returned: populate city and state onto form >> >> >> >> >>>1 record returned: pop up a mini screen with a list box showing all of the >>> >>> >>> >>> >>cities using that zipcode. The default city is selected with the OK button >>having focus. >> >>I would store every part of the address together for a given address. >> >>In our new system, we have the similar set up as above, but we only keep >> >> >the > > >>ZipID (ID, for the city, state and Zip) with the address. >>The extra joins needed now are a bit of a pita, so I could imagine how much >>more it would be to use a junction table containing an CSZid, CityID, Stid >> >> >& > > >>ZipID. >> >>I guess it all boils down to what level of normalization do you want to go? >>3rd, 4th? >> >>Oh, btw, are you only dealing with US addresses or INTL addresses too? >>Because that will add some twists too ;) >>David >> >> >> >>-----Original Message----- >>From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com >>[mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of John Clark >>Sent: Thursday, March 11, 2004 12:02 PM >>To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com >>Subject: [AccessD] question on normalization >> >> >>quick question: >> >>I have a program that will be populated with a 'regional' group of >>people--this meaning that everyone's address will be within this county. >>So I am thinking that I can speed up entry, by using a drop-down for zip >>codes and filling the town name from that. My question is, would it be >>proper to have a separate table for town and another for zip code, even >>though zip code would be a single field table? The town table would have >>three tables, with one being a link to the Zip Code table, and the Zip >>Code table would have a single field--"Zip". >> >>Thanks >> >>John W Clark >> >> >>-- >>_______________________________________________ >>AccessD mailing list >>AccessD at databaseadvisors.com >>http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd >>Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com >>-- >>_______________________________________________ >>AccessD mailing list >>AccessD at databaseadvisors.com >>http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd >>Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com >> >> >> >> >> >> >> > >-- >Marty Connelly >Victoria, B.C. >Canada > > > >-- >_______________________________________________ >AccessD mailing list >AccessD at databaseadvisors.com >http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd >Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > > -- Marty Connelly Victoria, B.C. Canada From DWUTKA at marlow.com Mon Mar 15 15:22:52 2004 From: DWUTKA at marlow.com (DWUTKA at marlow.com) Date: Mon, 15 Mar 2004 15:22:52 -0600 Subject: [AccessD] date function Message-ID: <2F8793082E00D4119A1700B0D0216BF802227971@main2.marlow.com> Just a thought, this may be due to the fact that Date() is a special function. For example, If you say: i=Val(SomeVariable) i is now the numeric value of 'SomeVariable'. However, you can't say: Val(SomeVariable)=i Just doesn't work. However, you CAN say: Date=SomeDateVariable Which goes and sets the date on your machine. The odd behavior you have seen may be related to Time(), Date(), and Now()'s capability to do that. Drew -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Dan Waters Sent: Thursday, March 11, 2004 8:35 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: [AccessD] date function John, In every database I've made on every PC, if I type in Date(), the two parentheses disappear and the word Date is left (in VBA code). In the source property for a control, if I typed in =Date(), what I typed in always stayed, but occasionally (and unrepeatedly), the function didn't work. I found out that that the =Now() function always worked if typed into a control's source property. So I quite typing =Date() into the source property of a control and instead call the following function which is stored in a standard module: Public Function CurrentDate() As Date CurrentDate = CDate(DatePart("m", Now()) & "/" & DatePart("d", Now()) _ & "/" & DatePart("yyyy", Now())) End Function HTH, Dan Waters -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of John Eget Sent: Thursday, March 11, 2004 6:39 PM To: AccessD at databaseadvisors.com Subject: [AccessD] date function I had the oddest thing happen today, My databases do not show =Date(), but only on the new HPs in work. Has anyone come across this before? John -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From DWUTKA at marlow.com Mon Mar 15 15:28:27 2004 From: DWUTKA at marlow.com (DWUTKA at marlow.com) Date: Mon, 15 Mar 2004 15:28:27 -0600 Subject: [AccessD] Vendor Table Message-ID: <2F8793082E00D4119A1700B0D0216BF802227972@main2.marlow.com> I would say the PO table, since those terms would be unique to the PO. If you want to get fancy, you could remember the Vendor's or Buyer's preferences, and use that as a default for a new PO. Drew -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Hollis,Virginia Sent: Friday, March 12, 2004 11:48 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: [AccessD] Vendor Table Ok, that makes sense. Where would the Payment Terms, Ship Via, Freight Terms go - which table? Virginia -----Original Message----- From: DWUTKA at marlow.com [mailto:DWUTKA at marlow.com] Sent: Friday, March 12, 2004 10:17 AM To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: RE: [AccessD] Vendor Table Sounds like a PO system. The PurchaseOrder table would be the 'tie in'. You would have a PO Number, then a buyerID, VendorID, and your items. Depends on how complex you want to make it, you should probably have a PO Line Items table. Drew -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Hollis,Virginia Sent: Friday, March 12, 2004 9:01 AM To: 'accessd at databaseadvisors.com' Subject: [AccessD] Vendor Table I am starting a new database - that seems fairly standard, but it is my first time with this type.... This database is to track vendor information & requests. I know I need a table with vendor information, one for the buyer, & one for contacts. The problem is I can't think of how to tie them all together, especially the buyer & requestor with the vendor. The buyer completes the form with all the vendor information, regular fields - name, address, terms. I guess my question is what do I put in a Main? table to tie all the information together? It is mostly just a form completed by the buyer and sent to another department for entry into the suppliers database. But the 2nd department wants to track the requests (where I come in). Virginia -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From DWUTKA at marlow.com Mon Mar 15 15:30:25 2004 From: DWUTKA at marlow.com (DWUTKA at marlow.com) Date: Mon, 15 Mar 2004 15:30:25 -0600 Subject: [AccessD] Framework Discussion - Who's following this Message-ID: <2F8793082E00D4119A1700B0D0216BF802227973@main2.marlow.com> I was actually assuming that was the purpose of your 'Framework'. Just trying to provide an easier method to link everything together. Drew -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of John W. Colby Sent: Friday, March 12, 2004 4:14 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] Framework Discussion - Who's following this Ooooh I'm gonna have to work through that since I don't understand what you are up to. I'm assuming that we are talking interfaces here? John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com From reuben at gfconsultants.com Mon Mar 15 15:31:05 2004 From: reuben at gfconsultants.com (Reuben Cummings) Date: Mon, 15 Mar 2004 16:31:05 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Hyperlinks for the BEU Message-ID: Anyone know what makes a hyperlink different than a memo? What I mean is this: the value for a hyperlink and a memo is 12 (that's 12 for both). However, the attributes are different. What I'm after is the differences that define one as a hyperlink and the other as a memo. Working on a new data type for the BEU and could use your help. Thanks. Reuben Cummings GFC, LLC phone: 812.523.1017 email: reuben at gfconsultants.com From DWUTKA at marlow.com Mon Mar 15 15:41:03 2004 From: DWUTKA at marlow.com (DWUTKA at marlow.com) Date: Mon, 15 Mar 2004 15:41:03 -0600 Subject: [AccessD] Vendor Table Message-ID: <2F8793082E00D4119A1700B0D0216BF802227974@main2.marlow.com> Hmmmm....I'm getting a little confused at the original 'intent'. Let me see if I am thinking this through correctly. Al needs a dozen widgets. So Al becomes the 'requestor'. Frank is the company's 'purchaser', so Frank is the Buyer. Widgets-R-Us is one of the 'Vendors' that Frank can use, to purchase the widgets that Al wants. Is that close? If that's the case, you need to take a look at the people involved. Requestors and Purchasers (in the example above) are people in the same company, so they should have the same information. So I would put them in tblEmployees. I am kind of roughing this around my companies 'PO' system. Technically all employee's can be Requestors, so any table that would need to know who is requesting something would have RequestorID, but that would be the EmployeeID foriegn key. However, only certain employee's would be Buyers, and each buyer (in my case) actually purchases based on the type of the purchase. So I would then have a PurchaseType table, to list the various 'purchase types', and then have a many to many table to link the buyers/purchasers to the types they handle (assuming there is possible overlap in each direction). Vendors on the other hand, could be put into one table. With a VendorID, Point of contact, etc. etc. I would then make a tblPurchaseOrder. Have the Requestor fill that out (So his/her ID would be recorded in the tblPurchaseOrder Record). Have the Requestor fill out the PO, including the Purchase type. Then, the buyer's would be able to 'view' the Purchase Orders that they are linked too through the Many to Many table. Does this make sense, or am I starting to babble....had a long week (My RAID 5 crashed, spent all last week getting my data off of it!) ARG! Drew -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Hollis,Virginia Sent: Saturday, March 13, 2004 6:59 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: [AccessD] Vendor Table Would this be correct? tbl_VendorMain VendorID ContactID RequestorID BuyerID TypeID DateRequested tbl_Vendor VendorID Vendor info stuff tbl_Type TypeID Type stuff etc. OR Should tbl_Vendor have CustomerID? -----Original Message----- From: DWUTKA at marlow.com [mailto:DWUTKA at marlow.com] Sent: Friday, March 12, 2004 10:17 AM To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: RE: [AccessD] Vendor Table Sounds like a PO system. The PurchaseOrder table would be the 'tie in'. You would have a PO Number, then a buyerID, VendorID, and your items. Depends on how complex you want to make it, you should probably have a PO Line Items table. Drew -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Hollis,Virginia Sent: Friday, March 12, 2004 9:01 AM To: 'accessd at databaseadvisors.com' Subject: [AccessD] Vendor Table I am starting a new database - that seems fairly standard, but it is my first time with this type.... This database is to track vendor information & requests. I know I need a table with vendor information, one for the buyer, & one for contacts. The problem is I can't think of how to tie them all together, especially the buyer & requestor with the vendor. The buyer completes the form with all the vendor information, regular fields - name, address, terms. I guess my question is what do I put in a Main? table to tie all the information together? It is mostly just a form completed by the buyer and sent to another department for entry into the suppliers database. But the 2nd department wants to track the requests (where I come in). Virginia -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From DWUTKA at marlow.com Mon Mar 15 15:44:41 2004 From: DWUTKA at marlow.com (DWUTKA at marlow.com) Date: Mon, 15 Mar 2004 15:44:41 -0600 Subject: [AccessD] Set up tables - Please Help Message-ID: <2F8793082E00D4119A1700B0D0216BF802227975@main2.marlow.com> Virginia, I think you are confusing Vendor with Purchase Order. A Vendor is just a peice of a Purchase Order, not the other way around. Drew -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Hollis,Virginia Sent: Saturday, March 13, 2004 10:46 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: [AccessD] Set up tables - Please Help tbl_Vendor contains all the data for the vendor; address, company name, etc. tbl_VendorMain could really be named tbl_RequestMain. tbl_VendorMain is where I thought I would store the combination of the data - VendorID, ContactID, BuyerID, RequestorID, DateRequested. -----Original Message----- From: Susan Harkins [mailto:ssharkins at bellsouth.net] Sent: Saturday, March 13, 2004 10:38 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: [AccessD] Set up tables - Please Help What's the difference between tbl_Vendor and tbl_VendorMain? Susan H. I have one table for each - tbl_Buyer, tbl_Contacts, tbl_Requestor, tbl_TypeBusiness, tbl_Vendor, tbl_VendorMain, tbl_Accounts. Tables buyer, vendor contacts, requestor store just the typical name, phone number, etc. -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From DWUTKA at marlow.com Mon Mar 15 15:52:28 2004 From: DWUTKA at marlow.com (DWUTKA at marlow.com) Date: Mon, 15 Mar 2004 15:52:28 -0600 Subject: [AccessD] Unzipping files Programmatically Message-ID: <2F8793082E00D4119A1700B0D0216BF802227976@main2.marlow.com> Get a registered version of Winzip. You can do all sorts of things then. Drew -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of ggonzalez at cccis.com Sent: Monday, March 15, 2004 12:17 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Unzipping files Programmatically I am tying to unzip files programmatically, but don't know where to start. Can anyone point me in the right direction TIA, Gumaro -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From prodevmg at yahoo.com Mon Mar 15 15:56:06 2004 From: prodevmg at yahoo.com (Lonnie Johnson) Date: Mon, 15 Mar 2004 13:56:06 -0800 (PST) Subject: [AccessD] Terminal Server and Access XP Message-ID: <20040315215606.23755.qmail@web20412.mail.yahoo.com> Users are getting a "Run-Time error 13, type mis match" when the application tries to cycle through some controls with the following: Dim ctl as Control For Each ctl in Me.Controls... This works fine in A97 and XP on regular machines. It even works for the administrator on a terminal server machine, but not regular users on terminal server. Anyone have a clue????????? Lonnie Johnson ProDev, Professional Development of MS Access Databases Visit me at ==> http://www.prodev.us Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Mail - More reliable, more storage, less spam From stuart at lexacorp.com.pg Mon Mar 15 16:00:05 2004 From: stuart at lexacorp.com.pg (Stuart McLachlan) Date: Tue, 16 Mar 2004 08:00:05 +1000 Subject: [AccessD] Hyperlinks for the BEU In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <4056B405.28203.10F9D3@localhost> On 15 Mar 2004 at 16:31, Reuben Cummings wrote: > Anyone know what makes a hyperlink different than a memo? > > What I mean is this: the value for a hyperlink and a memo is 12 (that's 12 > for both). However, the attributes are different. > > What I'm after is the differences that define one as a hyperlink and the > other as a memo. > > Working on a new data type for the BEU and could use your help. AFAIK, they're just ordinary memo fields with an attribute set DAO.FieldAttributeEnum = dbHyperlinkField (&H8000) -- Lexacorp Ltd http://www.lexacorp.com.pg Information Technology Consultancy, Software Development,System Support. From DWUTKA at marlow.com Mon Mar 15 16:04:20 2004 From: DWUTKA at marlow.com (DWUTKA at marlow.com) Date: Mon, 15 Mar 2004 16:04:20 -0600 Subject: [AccessD] Terminal Server and Access XP Message-ID: <2F8793082E00D4119A1700B0D0216BF802227978@main2.marlow.com> Any missing references? Drew -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Lonnie Johnson Sent: Monday, March 15, 2004 3:56 PM To: 'MS-ACCESS-L at lists.missouri.edu'; AccessDevelopers; ms_access; AccessD solving' Subject: [AccessD] Terminal Server and Access XP Users are getting a "Run-Time error 13, type mis match" when the application tries to cycle through some controls with the following: Dim ctl as Control For Each ctl in Me.Controls... This works fine in A97 and XP on regular machines. It even works for the administrator on a terminal server machine, but not regular users on terminal server. Anyone have a clue????????? Lonnie Johnson ProDev, Professional Development of MS Access Databases Visit me at ==> http://www.prodev.us Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Mail - More reliable, more storage, less spam -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From stuart at lexacorp.com.pg Mon Mar 15 16:39:47 2004 From: stuart at lexacorp.com.pg (Stuart McLachlan) Date: Tue, 16 Mar 2004 08:39:47 +1000 Subject: [AccessD] Unzipping files Programmatically In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <4056BD53.18391.3552B2@localhost> On 15 Mar 2004 at 12:16, ggonzalez at cccis.com wrote: > > I am tying to unzip files programmatically, but don't know where to start. > Can anyone point me in the right direction > Either: Grab Winzip Ver 9 and it's Command Line Support Addon (shareware)- then unzip with a SHELL command. or Grab zLib.dll (free) from http://www.gzip.org/zlib/ Then you can eiother write your declarations (you will need to look at the C header file and do a bit of translation) or grab a wrapper or a class from: http://www.paradoxes.info/code/ZipExtractionClass.html http://www.planet-source- code.com/vb/scripts/ShowCode.asp?txtCodeId=42297&lngWId=1 http://www.frez.co.uk/freecode.htm#zlibwrapper -- Lexacorp Ltd http://www.lexacorp.com.pg Information Technology Consultancy, Software Development,System Support. From jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com Mon Mar 15 20:33:41 2004 From: jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com (John W. Colby) Date: Mon, 15 Mar 2004 21:33:41 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Framework Discussion - Dependent Objects In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Jim, > So you'll end up with lots of classes, unless I misunderstanding your intent. For example let's start with a base text box class. In a typical app, you can have text boxes that can be used for: 1. Text input 2. Input of a short date 3. Input of a short date and time. #2 and #3 are variations of #1 and contain some of the same behaviors and methods. So at the frame work level, I'm going to provide three classes or I'm going to do one class (text box) and overload it with properties to accomplish #2 and #3. But what your not doing is starting with #1, then creating #2 and #3 based on #1. Lets back up a minute and discuss this from a logical perspective. 1) Access has no inheritance. No overloading. No none of that stuff. 2) A text box has ... 66 properties THAT CAN BE SEEN FROM THE PROPERTIES DIALOG. So, as things CURRENTLY stand, you do NOT take a text box class and inherit it, or overload it or any of the rest of that stuff. However what you DO is take a text box and mess around with those 66 properties, some at design time only, others through code as well... and cause the text box to do various things for you. Are you happy? Most developers are happy and they go about their merry lives programming that set of 66 properties (of which some are actually events). That's all they have, that's all they're ever going to have. They never think to ask for more because as we all know, you can't inherit the text box so you can't extend it's functionality! WRONG! By building a class wrapper to the text box control object, I can add custom properties, methods and behaviors! Isn't that after all precisely what you are doing with the built-in class for forms? Writing custom code and event handlers to extend the built-in functionality of a generic form and turn it into Jim's super-duper wonder form for .... uh... taking orders. Of course I am not magically turning Access into FoxPro or .NET. I am NOT magically giving you inheritance or "overloading" or any of that stuff. This is ACCESS, NOT POXPRO. >I'm also assuming that it's not your intent to do a lot of instance specific behaviors. For example, if I want to add a popup calendar to all my text boxes that work with a date, I can't do that easily if I stuck with a single text box class and handled date/time issues at the instance level. That is EXACTLY MY INTENTION. Except that I intend to provide properties, methods and behaviors to any instance THAT NEEDS THAT. If a popup calendar floats your boat, build one and tie it in to the text box class. Have a UseCalendar property that you set the "turns on" using that calendar for exactly the instances where you want a calendar. However it is that you managed to program the text box to use the calendar in some form somewhere, that same exact code will work in the text box class. Except that once added to the class it is available to any text box anywhere in the app. Set your UseCalendar property and boom... that text box will use the calendar. This isn't magic, just engineering effort applied to the system rather than to one control on one form. Lets look at things a little differently! I lived in Mexico for 5 years. When you wanted a telephone line, the phone company took an order. They then (eventually) sent a crew to PULL LINE TO YOUR HOUSE. They did not put a cable full of 1000 wires down the street, they pulled ONE PAIR of wires for as far as they needed from the nearest switch to your house! AND BOY DID THEY CHARGE YOU A TON OF MONEY!!! Hello? Is anyone home? In the US, when people start building homes along a road, the phone company pulls a cable the size of your arm full of twisted pairs. When a development is built, the phone company pulls a cable the size of your arm to the development. The phone company in the US is to telephones what my framework is to Access development. The phone company in Mexico was the average Access developer pulling some service to exactly one control on one form, whenever they needed that service. And charging the client A TON OF MONEY FOR THE PRIVILEGE! Now, it is of course possible that there is ONE HOUSE way up on the top of a mountain, with a National forest all around it. There will never be a use for 1000 twisted pairs, and even in the US, the phone company will pull a FEW pairs of wires up there. I am not going to say that my framework will have every single service that anyone can throw at it. There are things that are needed ONE TIME and it makes no sense to put that in the framework. Do that ONE THING in that ONE FORM, embedded in that form's built in class and be done with it. If there is something that is just used all of the time, then YES, throw that in the framework. It will be available to every text box (or combo, or whatever) at all times. Turn it on/off (if you need to do so) on a case by case basis (or Application by application, or form by form). >If you do one class, you end up with a lot of code, some of which you might not always be need. Uh... yep! >It also increases the complexity of the text box class uh... yep! How many of those 66 properties of the text box do YOU actually program on the average text box instance? 10? Probably not even that. Are you saying that Microsoft should take out the rest of them "to reduce complexity" or so that there's not a lot of code that you don't use every instance? Or are you perhaps telling ME THAT I SHOULD NOT DO THIS but it is just fine that Microsoft does it? I used to have people tell me that "Oooooh your framework is more than 5 mbytes". ROTFL. I program Office for crying out loud. If I write code for Access, and use Word and Outlook, those three apps will take somewhere around 50 megabytes PLUS another 50 megabytes for Windows 2K PLUS another 5-15 megabytes for the application. And I am supposed to stay awake at night trying to figure out how I can reduce my bodacious 5 mbytes? I DON'T THINK SO! > Even with the limited OO capabilities of Access, there are still design issues in how to approach a framework that will have an impact on performance. The other issue you mentioned (object cleanup) also bears directly on performance, which is what initially prompted my comment. In the time that the hard disk takes on average to spin some piece of data under the heads (never mind moving the heads to that track, or reading it into memory) Access can completely clean up ALL of the hundreds of class instances that may be loaded!!!!! Cleanup doesn't involve getting out the vacuum cleaner and going after the dust mites in the corner. "unloading a class" doesn't mean putting it back out on the disk. Closing any recordsets (which have to be done anyway, framework or no), setting the pointers to objects to nothing, hands the memory back to the VB garbage collector and I am done. How long does it take to set 5 pointers to nothing? How long to set 10,000 pointers to nothing? At 2 gbit clock on an AMD processor... considerably less time than it takes you to blink your eyes. Stick around if you are interested in performance. I have never seen my framework impact performance in a meaningful way, but you will have a ringside seat to see for yourself. It is doing things that you are going to do anyway (in terms of behaviors) so it's not like you can avoid those penalties if you code that same behavior yourself. There are those who abandon Access because it doesn't do FoxPro (or .NET) like things. I am making no effort to prevent their leaving. I can't give you a framework that you can "inherit" and layer your own (framework) functionality on in a .NET like way. That simply isn't an option and it is not my fault, it is not a choice I make, it is not within my control. I just do what I can do with what I am given to work with. I do firmly believe however that what I am doing is waaaay more than "the average Access developer", even one who builds a library of functions to be called from event stubs in his forms. What I can do is to extend the functionality of any of the built in controls to provide consistent, available functionality that developers currently hand / hard code on a control by control / form by form basis, and make that functionality available anywhere it is needed, all of the time, just by setting properties. Kind of like the controls already do with the stuff they have built in. If that doesn't do anything for you I can appreciate that and encourage you to look elsewhere for your own solution. John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Jim Dettman Sent: Monday, March 15, 2004 2:58 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] Framework Discussion - Dependent Objects John, << Our wrapper allows us to do nothing more than add custom functionality to THAT wrapped object. >> So you'll end up with lots of classes, unless I mis-understanding your intent. For example let's start with a base text box class. In a typical app, you can have text boxes that can be used for: 1. Text input 2. Input of a short date 3. Input of a short date and time #2 and #3 are variations of #1 and contain some of the same behaviors and methods. So at the frame work level, I'm going to provide three classes or I'm going to do one class (text box) and overload it with properties to accomplish #2 and #3. But what your not doing is starting with #1, then creating #2 and #3 based on #1. I'm also assuming that it's not your intent to do a lot of instance specific behaviors. For example, if I want to add a popup calendar to all my text boxes that work with a date, I can't do that easily if I stuck with a single text box class and handled date/time issues at the instance level. In that case, I should not have bothered with a framework at all, but instead create tools to manipulate instance specific items. In fact now that I say that, I'm wondering how you would roll out new versions of the Framework. If I as a developer have no choice but to modify your classes (because it's a single layer) and you distribute a new version, how can I easily implement it? The only alternative is to provide a large number of hook procedures that your class calls to find out if the developer wants to change anything. Anyway, excluding the last two options, this means that if you go the three class route, you are coding the "text box" behavior (i.e. background color when active) in three places, thus eliminating some of the benefits of doing it in the first place. If you do one class, you end up with a lot of code, some of which you might not always be need. It also increases the complexity of the text box class. Even with the limited OO capabilities of Access, there are still design issues in how to approach a framework that will have an impact on performance. The other issue you mentioned (object cleanup) also bears directly on performance, which is what initially prompted my comment. Jim (315) 699-3443 jimdettman at earthlink.net From jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com Mon Mar 15 20:50:00 2004 From: jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com (John W. Colby) Date: Mon, 15 Mar 2004 21:50:00 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] DependentObjects class In-Reply-To: <023f01c40ac8$a9470f80$6501a8c0@rock> Message-ID: >On a given form I have N checkboxes or option buttons or whatever. Beside these (some subset of all the controls), I have a DateUpdated field -- classic case of Dependent Object. But I want more than that. I want to write to a table ValuesChanged, automatically (i.e. class behavior), sending the table name, the field name, the userID and the dateTime. And have this happen as a simple result of changing said control. As it happens I am working on this exact functionality. However... in the end it didn't make sense to place this functionality in each control class but rather to write a class that does this. I started out adding a couple of properties to each control class and going down that road. It turns out as things developed that having a set of tables worked better than a single table. Just my take of course but I normalized the process, tblTableName, tblField, tblTransaction etc. Once I got into the analysis of the problem it seemed I wanted "transactional" information, i.e. workstation, transaction date, form, control, things like that that I did not want to have to put in every change record. Things are never simple and in the simplest case a single table design was enough, but as soon as you got to real life with forms that displayed (and allowed edits to) 2 or more tables then the single table design just became horribly inefficient. So this is a good example of where perhaps the functionality does not belong at the control level but rather in a "service class". Instantiate the class in the framework's form class, pass in the controls that you wish to monitor, and the service class deals with it. Remember that more than one class can sink events for a given control. It turns out however that you really don't want to do this on control events because of the problems with the user "backing out" or escaping out of changes, all of which cause no events to fire!!! Access is incredibly nasty when it comes to such things! You really want to use a hand full of form events that call methods of the service class requesting the service class to poll it's monitored controls for old / new values (depending on the event). By building a service class that monitors specific controls you can also do things like "watch address controls" to cause a process to run only if the address changes. Just load an instance and tell it to watch "these 5 controls" and raise an event if any of them changed at the time the data was stored back in the table. As I said, I am looking at this exact problem. John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Arthur Fuller Sent: Monday, March 15, 2004 3:04 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: [AccessD] DependentObjects class Good answer(s). Now I want to push the envelope a bit, and ensure that the framework can handle it.... On a given form I have N checkboxes or option buttons or whatever. Beside these (some subset of all the controls), I have a DateUpdated field -- classic case of Dependent Object. But I want more than that. I want to write to a table ValuesChanged, automatically (i.e. class behaviour), sending the table name, the field name, the userID and the dateTime. And have this happen as a simple result of changing said control. Arthur -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of John W. Colby Sent: Friday, March 12, 2004 2:11 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] DependentObjects class >Instead, they recommend creating a class that holds both controls as attributes of the class. This may or may not work in VBA, of course. And of course that can be done. However since the framework exists (or will!) and it has a combo class, why not allow any combo to know that something else is dependent on it, and then when it changes go requery anything that is dependent? In addition, in many cases where I have seen this sort of "one combo depends on another's value" thing done, it is IMO frequently the result of bad design at the database level. Yes, but you intentionally chose an example of normalization issues. What about companies / people / employees? As you select a different company in ComboA you want the "choice" of Employees in ComboB to change? What about Companies / payments, companies / invoices, companies... Dependent combos is SO common that it is a frequent "how do I" topic on this very list. >So in that case we're back to the custom class that embeds both combos. Absolutely possible and in fact easy using classes and Withevents. But again, all I have to do is tell the class instance for ComboA that ComboA "is dependent on it" and then whenever ComboA changes it automatically requeries ComboB. If comboC is dependent on ComboB, then when ComboB is requeried by ComboA, ComboB looks in it's dependent objects collection (or class) and requeries all of ITs dependent objects. This is a classic case of a normal framework behavior replacing custom programming. >But I do believe that designing classes that know specifics about other classes (i.e. worst of all is that they must know the name of the other class's instance) is fundamentally incorrect. The class doesn't know anything except it has a collection of objects that it needs to requery!!! No clue at all what the objects are, just that they are in its collection and it needs to call a requery method for each one. In fact the objects can be other combos, other lists, subforms, other open forms... anything in the application that is a class and as a requery method. The DEVELOPER knows that ComboB depends on ComboA and in the form's Open event tells the framework (a specific class instance). Further combos aren't the only objects that can have dependent objects. Basically anything (any control) that can be referenced by the SQL of another control can have dependent objects. A text box can be referenced by a combo so it can have a dependent objects class. Likewise a checkbox, a radio button, ANYTHING that can be referenced by SQL in the recordset for a control or form. Stick around for the discussion, we are about to add that functionality to our "framework" (it isn't a framework yet!) so you can see what I am talking about. John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com From accessd667 at yahoo.com Tue Mar 16 00:42:13 2004 From: accessd667 at yahoo.com (S D) Date: Mon, 15 Mar 2004 22:42:13 -0800 (PST) Subject: [AccessD] Transaction in MS-Access INFO REQUIRED Message-ID: <20040316064213.26974.qmail@web61107.mail.yahoo.com> Hi group, I need info regarding TRANSACTIONS in MS-Access 2000. Specifically about the diffs between MS-Access 2000 and SQL-Server/Oracle. In Oracle / SQL-Server it is possible to roll-back a transaction AFTER : - a system crash; - a network failure; - lost connection to the database; - etc. So can anybody tell me/ point me to a good document where I can read about the possibilities and disabilities of MS-Access 2000 Transactions. TIA Sander Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Mail - More reliable, more storage, less spam From djkr at msn.com Tue Mar 16 01:07:17 2004 From: djkr at msn.com (DJK(John) Robinson) Date: Tue, 16 Mar 2004 07:07:17 -0000 Subject: [AccessD] Transaction in MS-Access INFO REQUIRED In-Reply-To: <20040316064213.26974.qmail@web61107.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <001c01c40b25$511c2130$bf00a8c0@dabsight> There's no transaction log in Access, so no concept of rolling back a transaction after it has been committed. Access transactions do provide atomicity, though, and multiple transactions can be nested or overlapped. HTH a little John > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of S D > Sent: 16 March 2004 06:42 > To: accessd > Subject: [AccessD] Transaction in MS-Access INFO REQUIRED > > > Hi group, > > I need info regarding TRANSACTIONS in MS-Access 2000. > Specifically about the diffs between MS-Access 2000 and > SQL-Server/Oracle. > > In Oracle / SQL-Server it is possible to roll-back a > transaction AFTER : > - a system crash; > - a network failure; > - lost connection to the database; > - etc. > > So can anybody tell me/ point me to a good document where I > can read about the possibilities and disabilities of > MS-Access 2000 Transactions. > > TIA > > Sander > > Do you Yahoo!? > Yahoo! Mail - More reliable, more storage, less spam > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > From gustav at cactus.dk Tue Mar 16 03:09:33 2004 From: gustav at cactus.dk (Gustav Brock) Date: Tue, 16 Mar 2004 10:09:33 +0100 Subject: [AccessD] Memo Locked - Apparently, but not that I can find!!! In-Reply-To: <002d01c3ef36$01999260$1e00a8c0@cheqsoft.local> References: <002d01c3ef36$01999260$1e00a8c0@cheqsoft.local> Message-ID: <1196581313.20040316100933@cactus.dk> Hi David I have a client fighting with this too. Could you be a little more specific on your solution, please? What are you refreshing and when? Which of the advices mentioned in the forum discussion did you implement? As I read it, you update (save) the record at the BeforeUpdate event of the memo field, then Cancel the update and refresh (requery?) the record? /gustav > Thanks John, > That gave me enough to resolve it. > Also Ref http://www.utteraccess.com/forums/access/access605200.html > For anyone else simply doing a refresh unlocks it! > Kind Regards > David > From: John W. Colby > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Sent: Tuesday, February 10, 2004 2:38 AM > Subject: RE: [AccessD] Memo Locked - Apparently, but not that I can find!!! > Memo fields are treated differently than the rest of the fields in a record. > They are simply pointers out to a storage area where the actual memo is > stored. Memos still have the "page locking" issue where if another user is > editing another memo that resides in the same physical page as your memo, > yours will be locked. > John W. Colby > www.ColbyConsulting.com > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Tortise > Sent: Monday, February 09, 2004 5:24 AM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: [AccessD] Memo Locked - Apparently, but not that I can find!!! > Hi > I have a database which intermittently reports memo fields as being locked. > However they are not! Editing the memo field it refuses to update on > attempted save, however text fields still update fine. (!) It is a database > from A2K, that went to A97, back to A2k and now is running (converted) in > A2k3. (Over time!) Repair and compaction makes no difference, neither does > logging off and back on to the windows session. > The same behaviour is exhibited when editing the table as it is from a form. > I'm stumped! > As always any guidance is appreciated. > Kind Regards > David From paul.hartland at fsmail.net Tue Mar 16 05:42:10 2004 From: paul.hartland at fsmail.net (paul.hartland at fsmail.net) Date: Tue, 16 Mar 2004 12:42:10 +0100 (CET) Subject: [AccessD] OT - Internet Explorer 6.0 Message-ID: <12203823.1079437330926.JavaMail.www@wwinf3001> To all, Don?t know where else to turn at the moment, I have Internet Explorer 6.0 (SP1) installed on my PC at home. During the weekend I thought I would look around the net etc, but my page came up blank and no address in the address window. I have a connection to the Internet cause my MSN and Yahoo Messenger are both working fine, however I have no Browser capability. I?m running Windows 98SE, has anyone else ever had this and how I can go about rectifying it. I have tried re-installing IE6 and don?t know what else to do. Sorry for the OT but could really do with having this back up and running ASAP. Thanks in advance for any help. Paul Hartland Freeserve AnyTime - HALF PRICE for the first 3 months - Save ?7.50 a month www.freeserve.com/anytime From gustav at cactus.dk Tue Mar 16 05:43:54 2004 From: gustav at cactus.dk (Gustav Brock) Date: Tue, 16 Mar 2004 12:43:54 +0100 Subject: [AccessD] FMS Total Access Memo Question In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <17315841999.20040316124354@cactus.dk> Hi Terri Well, if all you need is some simple formatting, the MS richtext ocx will do if you add some buttons and associated code. /gustav > Is anybody using this software? I purchased it a few weeks ago and I'm running into some issues of which I was unaware. > My key reason for getting this software was to have the ability to format memo fields and then export them to Word. However, I was unaware of the difficulty in doing this. > Is there some other 3rd party software that allows this functionality? > Thanks for any hints, tips or advice. > Terri Jarus > Director, Contract Support Services > jarus at amerinet-gpo.com > 314-542-1902 From stuart at lexacorp.com.pg Tue Mar 16 06:08:31 2004 From: stuart at lexacorp.com.pg (Stuart McLachlan) Date: Tue, 16 Mar 2004 22:08:31 +1000 Subject: [AccessD] OT - Internet Explorer 6.0 In-Reply-To: <12203823.1079437330926.JavaMail.www@wwinf3001> Message-ID: <40577ADF.25808.319B881@localhost> On 16 Mar 2004 at 12:42, paul.hartland at fsmail.net wrote: > To all, Don?t know where else to turn at the moment, I have Internet > Explorer 6.0 (SP1) installed on my PC at home. During the weekend I > thought I would look around the net etc, but my page came up blank and > no address in the address window. That could just be because your home page in Interent Options | General is set to "about:blank" What happens when you type a URL into the address window >I have a connection to the Internet > cause my MSN and Yahoo Messenger are both working fine, however I have > no Browser capability. > I?m running Windows 98SE, has anyone else ever had this and how I can > go about rectifying it. I have tried re-installing IE6 and don?t know > what else to do. Try installing Mozilla Firefox and using that instead? http://www.mozilla.org/products/firefox/ I've recently switched over to it from IE and I love it. There are lots of things it does much better than IE. -- Lexacorp Ltd http://www.lexacorp.com.pg Information Technology Consultancy, Software Development,System Support. From jarus at amerinet-gpo.com Tue Mar 16 06:21:35 2004 From: jarus at amerinet-gpo.com (Terri Jarus) Date: Tue, 16 Mar 2004 06:21:35 -0600 Subject: [AccessD] FMS Total Access Memo Question Message-ID: There are a lot of memo fields that might need special formatting - bolding, italics, bullets, etc. When I looked into using the richtext ocx, you had to set up buttons for each formatting need. The issue would still be the same since the richtext feature is an ActiveX control and that does not translate to Word - unless you can tell me how to do that. That's FMS' pat answer - ActiveX controls don't translate over to Word. Terri Jarus Director, Contract Support Services jarus at amerinet-gpo.com 314-542-1902 >>> gustav at cactus.dk 03/16/04 05:43AM >>> Hi Terri Well, if all you need is some simple formatting, the MS richtext ocx will do if you add some buttons and associated code. /gustav > Is anybody using this software? I purchased it a few weeks ago and I'm running into some issues of which I was unaware. > My key reason for getting this software was to have the ability to format memo fields and then export them to Word. However, I was unaware of the difficulty in doing this. > Is there some other 3rd party software that allows this functionality? > Thanks for any hints, tips or advice. > Terri Jarus > Director, Contract Support Services > jarus at amerinet-gpo.com > 314-542-1902 -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com --------------------------------------------------------------------------- This email and any files transmitted with it are confidential and intended solely for the use of the individuals or entities to whom they are addressed. If you have received this email in error please return it to the sender, and erase any copies thereof. Copyright 2004 Amerinet 1nc. From HollisVJ at pgdp.usec.com Tue Mar 16 06:27:41 2004 From: HollisVJ at pgdp.usec.com (Hollis,Virginia) Date: Tue, 16 Mar 2004 06:27:41 -0600 Subject: [AccessD] Set up tables - Please Help Message-ID: <618EB4D6DDCDD3119B0A00508B6FD37A0CB0D31B@cntexchange.pgdp.usec.com> This is all taken from a hard copy of the current request form. The buyer completes the vendor request form with the vendor information. The form is used to add the new vendor information into a main database. The form provides the vendors name, billing information, type of business, etc. It does not list any items the company will buy from this vendor. Once the vendor information is added, then the company will issue POs, contracts to the new vendor (not part of this database). They just want to track the requests from the buyers. The form contains a lot of information about the vendor. When I create all the tables and join them to create a form for entering the information, it either comes up blank (no records) or I can't add any new records, one try it kept knocking my query out - I think because it was too long. Virginia -----Original Message----- From: DWUTKA at marlow.com [mailto:DWUTKA at marlow.com] Sent: Monday, March 15, 2004 3:45 PM To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: RE: [AccessD] Set up tables - Please Help Virginia, I think you are confusing Vendor with Purchase Order. A Vendor is just a peice of a Purchase Order, not the other way around. Drew -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Hollis,Virginia Sent: Saturday, March 13, 2004 10:46 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: [AccessD] Set up tables - Please Help tbl_Vendor contains all the data for the vendor; address, company name, etc. tbl_VendorMain could really be named tbl_RequestMain. tbl_VendorMain is where I thought I would store the combination of the data - VendorID, ContactID, BuyerID, RequestorID, DateRequested. -----Original Message----- From: Susan Harkins [mailto:ssharkins at bellsouth.net] Sent: Saturday, March 13, 2004 10:38 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: [AccessD] Set up tables - Please Help What's the difference between tbl_Vendor and tbl_VendorMain? Susan H. I have one table for each - tbl_Buyer, tbl_Contacts, tbl_Requestor, tbl_TypeBusiness, tbl_Vendor, tbl_VendorMain, tbl_Accounts. Tables buyer, vendor contacts, requestor store just the typical name, phone number, etc. -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From paul.hartland at fsmail.net Tue Mar 16 06:46:51 2004 From: paul.hartland at fsmail.net (paul.hartland at fsmail.net) Date: Tue, 16 Mar 2004 13:46:51 +0100 (CET) Subject: [AccessD] OT - Internet Explorer 6.0 Message-ID: <13314141.1079441211190.JavaMail.www@wwinf3001> My homepage is set to www.freeserve.co.uk and if I type a web address in I get the lovely little blue bar for about 5 minutes before saying cannot be found....wouldn't mind but I'm on Broadband..... Message date : Mar 16 2004, 12:45 PM >From : "Stuart McLachlan" To : "Access Developers discussion and problem solving" Copy to : Subject : Re: [AccessD] OT - Internet Explorer 6.0 On 16 Mar 2004 at 12:42, paul.hartland at fsmail.net wrote: > To all, Don?t know where else to turn at the moment, I have Internet > Explorer 6.0 (SP1) installed on my PC at home. During the weekend I > thought I would look around the net etc, but my page came up blank and > no address in the address window. That could just be because your home page in Interent Options | General is set to "about:blank" What happens when you type a URL into the address window >I have a connection to the Internet > cause my MSN and Yahoo Messenger are both working fine, however I have > no Browser capability. > I?m running Windows 98SE, has anyone else ever had this and how I can > go about rectifying it. I have tried re-installing IE6 and don?t know > what else to do. Try installing Mozilla Firefox and using that instead? http://www.mozilla.org/products/firefox/ I've recently switched over to it from IE and I love it. There are lots of things it does much better than IE. -- Lexacorp Ltd http://www.lexacorp.com.pg Information Technology Consultancy, Software Development,System Support. -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com Freeserve AnyTime - HALF PRICE for the first 3 months - Save ?7.50 a month www.freeserve.com/anytime From gustav at cactus.dk Tue Mar 16 06:51:29 2004 From: gustav at cactus.dk (Gustav Brock) Date: Tue, 16 Mar 2004 13:51:29 +0100 Subject: [AccessD] FMS Total Access Memo Question In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <14919897320.20040316135129@cactus.dk> Hi Terri > There are a lot of memo fields that might need special formatting - > bolding, italics, bullets, etc. When I looked into using the > richtext ocx, you had to set up buttons for each formatting need. Yes, for a client I have Normal, Bold, Italic, and Underline - that's all they need. Of course, if you need more elaborate formatting you'll soon find yourself designing a WordPad clone. By the way, both the ocx and WordPad depends on the same richtex dll. > The issue would still be the same since the richtext feature is an > ActiveX control and that does not translate to Word - unless you can > tell me how to do that. There's nothing to do ... every memo field is an RTF document on its own and the control even has methods for reading and writing the content to a file. > That's FMS' pat answer - ActiveX controls don't translate over to Word. I don't know what FMS is talking about here. Again, there is nothing to translate - Word eats RTF files for lunch. /gustav > Terri Jarus > Director, Contract Support Services > jarus at amerinet-gpo.com > 314-542-1902 >>>> gustav at cactus.dk 03/16/04 05:43AM >>> > Hi Terri > Well, if all you need is some simple formatting, the MS richtext ocx will > do if you add some buttons and associated code. > /gustav >> Is anybody using this software? I purchased it a few weeks ago and I'm running into some issues of which I was unaware. >> My key reason for getting this software was to have the ability to format memo fields and then export them to Word. However, I was unaware of the difficulty in doing this. >> Is there some other 3rd party software that allows this functionality? >> Thanks for any hints, tips or advice. >> Terri Jarus >> Director, Contract Support Services >> jarus at amerinet-gpo.com >> 314-542-1902 From prodevmg at yahoo.com Tue Mar 16 07:03:48 2004 From: prodevmg at yahoo.com (Lonnie Johnson) Date: Tue, 16 Mar 2004 05:03:48 -0800 (PST) Subject: [AccessD] Terminal Server and Access XP In-Reply-To: <2F8793082E00D4119A1700B0D0216BF802227978@main2.marlow.com> Message-ID: <20040316130348.19201.qmail@web20405.mail.yahoo.com> Nope. I was kinda hoping there was. It works if we log onto the terminal server as administrator, but not as a regular user. Would this be at the registry level? DWUTKA at marlow.com wrote:Any missing references? Drew -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Lonnie Johnson Sent: Monday, March 15, 2004 3:56 PM To: 'MS-ACCESS-L at lists.missouri.edu'; AccessDevelopers; ms_access; AccessD solving' Subject: [AccessD] Terminal Server and Access XP Users are getting a "Run-Time error 13, type mis match" when the application tries to cycle through some controls with the following: Dim ctl as Control For Each ctl in Me.Controls... This works fine in A97 and XP on regular machines. It even works for the administrator on a terminal server machine, but not regular users on terminal server. Anyone have a clue????????? Lonnie Johnson ProDev, Professional Development of MS Access Databases Visit me at ==> http://www.prodev.us Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Mail - More reliable, more storage, less spam -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com Lonnie Johnson ProDev, Professional Development of MS Access Databases Visit me at ==> http://www.prodev.us Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Mail - More reliable, more storage, less spam From stuart at lexacorp.com.pg Tue Mar 16 07:15:11 2004 From: stuart at lexacorp.com.pg (Stuart McLachlan) Date: Tue, 16 Mar 2004 23:15:11 +1000 Subject: [AccessD] OT - Internet Explorer 6.0 In-Reply-To: <13314141.1079441211190.JavaMail.www@wwinf3001> Message-ID: <40578A7F.11548.356C0A6@localhost> On 16 Mar 2004 at 13:46, paul.hartland at fsmail.net wrote: > My homepage is set to www.freeserve.co.uk and if I type a web address > in I get the lovely little blue bar for about 5 minutes before saying > cannot be found....wouldn't mind but I'm on Broadband..... > Sounds like a problem with DNS lookup. What OS? > Message date : Mar 16 2004, 12:45 PM > >From : "Stuart McLachlan" > To : "Access Developers discussion and problem solving" > Copy to : > Subject : Re: [AccessD] OT - Internet Explorer 6.0 > On 16 Mar 2004 at 12:42, paul.hartland at fsmail.net wrote: > > > To all, Don?t know where else to turn at the moment, I have Internet > > Explorer 6.0 (SP1) installed on my PC at home. During the weekend I > > thought I would look around the net etc, but my page came up blank and > > no address in the address window. > > That could just be because your home page in Interent Options | > General is set to "about:blank" > > What happens when you type a URL into the address window > > >I have a connection to the Internet > > cause my MSN and Yahoo Messenger are both working fine, however I have > > no Browser capability. > > > I?m running Windows 98SE, has anyone else ever had this and how I can > > go about rectifying it. I have tried re-installing IE6 and don?t know > > what else to do. > > Try installing Mozilla Firefox and using that instead? > http://www.mozilla.org/products/firefox/ > > I've recently switched over to it from IE and I love it. There are > lots of things it does much better than IE. > > > -- > Lexacorp Ltd > http://www.lexacorp.com.pg > Information Technology Consultancy, Software Development,System Support. > > > > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > Freeserve AnyTime - HALF PRICE for the first 3 months - Save ?7.50 a month > www.freeserve.com/anytime > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > -- Lexacorp Ltd http://www.lexacorp.com.pg Information Technology Consultancy, Software Development,System Support. From Erwin.Craps at ithelps.be Tue Mar 16 07:32:42 2004 From: Erwin.Craps at ithelps.be (Erwin Craps - IT Helps) Date: Tue, 16 Mar 2004 14:32:42 +0100 Subject: [AccessD] Terminal Server and Access XP Message-ID: <46B976F2B698FF46A4FE7636509B22DF0AD619@stekelbes.ithelps.local> Ah ok My Eurocent fals now... Security. Security on program files etc is limited to read only. You should check security settings on files you need to write to. -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Lonnie Johnson Sent: Tuesday, March 16, 2004 2:04 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] Terminal Server and Access XP Nope. I was kinda hoping there was. It works if we log onto the terminal server as administrator, but not as a regular user. Would this be at the registry level? DWUTKA at marlow.com wrote:Any missing references? Drew -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Lonnie Johnson Sent: Monday, March 15, 2004 3:56 PM To: 'MS-ACCESS-L at lists.missouri.edu'; AccessDevelopers; ms_access; AccessD solving' Subject: [AccessD] Terminal Server and Access XP Users are getting a "Run-Time error 13, type mis match" when the application tries to cycle through some controls with the following: Dim ctl as Control For Each ctl in Me.Controls... This works fine in A97 and XP on regular machines. It even works for the administrator on a terminal server machine, but not regular users on terminal server. Anyone have a clue????????? Lonnie Johnson ProDev, Professional Development of MS Access Databases Visit me at ==> http://www.prodev.us Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Mail - More reliable, more storage, less spam -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com Lonnie Johnson ProDev, Professional Development of MS Access Databases Visit me at ==> http://www.prodev.us Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Mail - More reliable, more storage, less spam -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From rl_stewart at highstream.net Tue Mar 16 07:33:57 2004 From: rl_stewart at highstream.net (Robert L. Stewart) Date: Tue, 16 Mar 2004 07:33:57 -0600 Subject: [AccessD] Re: Access 2003 Developer Edition? In-Reply-To: <200403152240.i2FMeuM14090@databaseadvisors.com> Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20040316073249.029f1820@pop3.highstream.net> Michael, It is called Access 2003 Developer Extensions now. This is because of the hook into .NET Robert At 04:40 PM 3/15/2004 -0600, you wrote: >Date: Mon, 15 Mar 2004 19:10:32 +0100 >From: Michael Br?sdorf >Subject: [AccessD] Access 2003 Developer Edition? >To: "Access Developers discussion and problem solving" > >Message-ID: >Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" > >Hello, > >I noticed that there seems to no more Office 2003 Developers Edition. Is it >still possible to create Run-Time applications with Access 2003? >` >Michael From Erwin.Craps at ithelps.be Tue Mar 16 07:40:38 2004 From: Erwin.Craps at ithelps.be (Erwin Craps - IT Helps) Date: Tue, 16 Mar 2004 14:40:38 +0100 Subject: [AccessD] Re: Access 2003 Developer Edition? Message-ID: <46B976F2B698FF46A4FE7636509B22DF0AD61B@stekelbes.ithelps.local> This is bizare, I don't find this article at my distributor Techdata. Does anyone has the article ID of MS? -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Robert L. Stewart Sent: Tuesday, March 16, 2004 2:34 PM To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Cc: michael.broesdorf at web.de Subject: [AccessD] Re: Access 2003 Developer Edition? Michael, It is called Access 2003 Developer Extensions now. This is because of the hook into .NET Robert At 04:40 PM 3/15/2004 -0600, you wrote: >Date: Mon, 15 Mar 2004 19:10:32 +0100 >From: Michael Br?sdorf >Subject: [AccessD] Access 2003 Developer Edition? >To: "Access Developers discussion and problem solving" > >Message-ID: >Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" > >Hello, > >I noticed that there seems to no more Office 2003 Developers Edition. >Is it still possible to create Run-Time applications with Access 2003? >` >Michael -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From rl_stewart at highstream.net Tue Mar 16 07:47:57 2004 From: rl_stewart at highstream.net (Robert L. Stewart) Date: Tue, 16 Mar 2004 07:47:57 -0600 Subject: [AccessD] Re: Access 2003 Developer Edition? In-Reply-To: <200403152240.i2FMeuM14090@databaseadvisors.com> Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20040316074545.02a036b0@pop3.highstream.net> From the MSDN Downloads site: Visual Studio Tools for the Microsoft Office System 2003: Microsoft Visual Studio Tools for the Microsoft Office System provides developers the tools and technologies they need to build the next generation of solutions for the Microsoft Office System. Visual Studio Tools for the Microsoft Office System includes: Microsoft Visual Studio Tools for the Microsoft Office System, bringing the power and productivity of Visual Studio .NET and the .NET Framework to business solutions using Microsoft Office Word 2003 and Microsoft Office Excel 2003. Developers can use Visual Studio .NET to build powerful business solutions where Word and Excel are the user interface. Access 2003 Developer Extensions: Microsoft Office Access 2003 Developer Extensions, including a Microsoft? Office Access 2003 Runtime license enabling royalty-free distribution of Microsoft? Office Access 2003 solutions, and a series of tools for Access developers that streamline the production and deployment of Access solutions. At 04:40 PM 3/15/2004 -0600, you wrote: >Date: Mon, 15 Mar 2004 10:30:59 -0800 >From: "Charlotte Foust" >Subject: RE: [AccessD] Access 2003 Developer Edition? >To: "Access Developers discussion and problem solving" > >Message-ID: > >Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" > >You need the Visual Studio Tools for Office 2003, as well as Access 2003, >to create runtimes. There is no developer's edition for 2003. > >Charlotte Foust > >-----Original Message----- >From: Michael Br?sdorf [mailto:michael.broesdorf at web.de] >Sent: Monday, March 15, 2004 10:11 AM >To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving >Subject: [AccessD] Access 2003 Developer Edition? > > >Hello, > >I noticed that there seems to no more Office 2003 Developers Edition. Is >it still possible to create Run-Time applications with Access 2003? ` Michael From michael.broesdorf at web.de Tue Mar 16 07:55:51 2004 From: michael.broesdorf at web.de (=?us-ascii?Q?Michael_Brosdorf?=) Date: Tue, 16 Mar 2004 14:55:51 +0100 Subject: AW: [AccessD] Re: Access 2003 Developer Edition? In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.2.20040316073249.029f1820@pop3.highstream.net> Message-ID: Thanks to all who responded - this list is great! Michael -----Ursprungliche Nachricht----- Von: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]Im Auftrag von Robert L. Stewart Gesendet: Dienstag, 16. Marz 2004 14:34 An: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Cc: michael.broesdorf at web.de Betreff: [AccessD] Re: Access 2003 Developer Edition? Michael, It is called Access 2003 Developer Extensions now. This is because of the hook into .NET Robert At 04:40 PM 3/15/2004 -0600, you wrote: >Date: Mon, 15 Mar 2004 19:10:32 +0100 >From: Michael Br?sdorf >Subject: [AccessD] Access 2003 Developer Edition? >To: "Access Developers discussion and problem solving" > >Message-ID: >Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" > >Hello, > >I noticed that there seems to no more Office 2003 Developers Edition. Is it >still possible to create Run-Time applications with Access 2003? >` >Michael -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From jimdettman at earthlink.net Tue Mar 16 08:07:09 2004 From: jimdettman at earthlink.net (Jim Dettman) Date: Tue, 16 Mar 2004 09:07:09 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Framework Discussion - Dependent Objects In-Reply-To: Message-ID: John, I'm not sure what you think I mean by "overloading", but what I'm saying is that you have a choice: You either build numerous classes to handle specific behavior or you overload a single class with more properties and methods to make it handle more then one type of behavior. <> And this was exactly my point. Your choice was either to create a new class in the Framework to handle a text control with a popup calendar or add properties and methods to a single class so it can do both jobs. <> I'm not telling you do to anything. I was trying to add to the discussion, pointing out that performance is based on design decisions that are made in the framework. You are taking an OOP approach and the same fundamentals apply no matter which language your dealing with. I don't understand why your taking this so personally. I never said that what you were doing was not worth it. I was discussing frameworks in general. This has nothing to do with me leaving Access for VFP, which I have not (I still use both tools on a regular basis). I would love to see someone do a commercial framework for Access. But after 10 years of existence, one has to ask themselves why there are not a truck load of them already. You asked for input about the design of frameworks and I've brought up a few issues (performance and distribution of new versions). If you don't want to address them and explore these areas then fine. But if that's the case, then don't ask for the input in the first place. Jim (315) 699-3443 jimdettman at earthlink.net -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of John W. Colby Sent: Monday, March 15, 2004 9:34 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] Framework Discussion - Dependent Objects Jim, > So you'll end up with lots of classes, unless I misunderstanding your intent. For example let's start with a base text box class. In a typical app, you can have text boxes that can be used for: 1. Text input 2. Input of a short date 3. Input of a short date and time. #2 and #3 are variations of #1 and contain some of the same behaviors and methods. So at the frame work level, I'm going to provide three classes or I'm going to do one class (text box) and overload it with properties to accomplish #2 and #3. But what your not doing is starting with #1, then creating #2 and #3 based on #1. Lets back up a minute and discuss this from a logical perspective. <> From jimdettman at earthlink.net Tue Mar 16 08:11:12 2004 From: jimdettman at earthlink.net (Jim Dettman) Date: Tue, 16 Mar 2004 09:11:12 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Transaction in MS-Access INFO REQUIRED In-Reply-To: <001c01c40b25$511c2130$bf00a8c0@dabsight> Message-ID: Sander/John, Actually, to be a little more specific, there is no rollback/forward capability with JET as the database engine, but if you use Access with MSDE or SQL Server, then you pick that up. Jim Dettman Online Computer Services of WNY, Inc. (315) 699-3443 jimdettman at earthlink.net -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of DJK(John) Robinson Sent: Tuesday, March 16, 2004 2:07 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: [AccessD] Transaction in MS-Access INFO REQUIRED There's no transaction log in Access, so no concept of rolling back a transaction after it has been committed. Access transactions do provide atomicity, though, and multiple transactions can be nested or overlapped. HTH a little John > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of S D > Sent: 16 March 2004 06:42 > To: accessd > Subject: [AccessD] Transaction in MS-Access INFO REQUIRED > > > Hi group, > > I need info regarding TRANSACTIONS in MS-Access 2000. > Specifically about the diffs between MS-Access 2000 and > SQL-Server/Oracle. > > In Oracle / SQL-Server it is possible to roll-back a > transaction AFTER : > - a system crash; > - a network failure; > - lost connection to the database; > - etc. > > So can anybody tell me/ point me to a good document where I > can read about the possibilities and disabilities of > MS-Access 2000 Transactions. > > TIA > > Sander > > Do you Yahoo!? > Yahoo! Mail - More reliable, more storage, less spam > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From paul.hartland at fsmail.net Tue Mar 16 08:21:42 2004 From: paul.hartland at fsmail.net (paul.hartland at fsmail.net) Date: Tue, 16 Mar 2004 15:21:42 +0100 (CET) Subject: [AccessD] OT - Internet Explorer 6.0 Message-ID: <33323297.1079446902283.JavaMail.www@wwinf3005> windows 98SE is what I have at home Message date : Mar 16 2004, 01:47 PM >From : "Stuart McLachlan" To : "Access Developers discussion and problem solving" Copy to : Subject : Re: Re: [AccessD] OT - Internet Explorer 6.0 On 16 Mar 2004 at 13:46, paul.hartland at fsmail.net wrote: > My homepage is set to www.freeserve.co.uk and if I type a web address > in I get the lovely little blue bar for about 5 minutes before saying > cannot be found....wouldn't mind but I'm on Broadband..... > Sounds like a problem with DNS lookup. What OS? > Message date : Mar 16 2004, 12:45 PM > >From : "Stuart McLachlan" > To : "Access Developers discussion and problem solving" > Copy to : > Subject : Re: [AccessD] OT - Internet Explorer 6.0 > On 16 Mar 2004 at 12:42, paul.hartland at fsmail.net wrote: > > > To all, Don?t know where else to turn at the moment, I have Internet > > Explorer 6.0 (SP1) installed on my PC at home. During the weekend I > > thought I would look around the net etc, but my page came up blank and > > no address in the address window. > > That could just be because your home page in Interent Options | > General is set to "about:blank" > > What happens when you type a URL into the address window > > >I have a connection to the Internet > > cause my MSN and Yahoo Messenger are both working fine, however I have > > no Browser capability. > > > I?m running Windows 98SE, has anyone else ever had this and how I can > > go about rectifying it. I have tried re-installing IE6 and don?t know > > what else to do. > > Try installing Mozilla Firefox and using that instead? > http://www.mozilla.org/products/firefox/ > > I've recently switched over to it from IE and I love it. There are > lots of things it does much better than IE. > > > -- > Lexacorp Ltd > http://www.lexacorp.com.pg > Information Technology Consultancy, Software Development,System Support. > > > > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > Freeserve AnyTime - HALF PRICE for the first 3 months - Save ?7.50 a month > www.freeserve.com/anytime > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > -- Lexacorp Ltd http://www.lexacorp.com.pg Information Technology Consultancy, Software Development,System Support. -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com Freeserve AnyTime - HALF PRICE for the first 3 months - Save ?7.50 a month www.freeserve.com/anytime From gustav at cactus.dk Tue Mar 16 09:00:14 2004 From: gustav at cactus.dk (Gustav Brock) Date: Tue, 16 Mar 2004 16:00:14 +0100 Subject: [AccessD] Re: [Private] Framework Discussion - Dependent Objects In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <11927622088.20040316160014@cactus.dk> Hi Jim Ha ha, hit by the Colby flames! Welcome to the club! I read it too and wondered - but I guess that's the way he is and that it doesn't mean so much. Remember the days of Drew and JC? Eventually they cooled down. And internationalization? He just loves his framework as a child, so I've chosen to keep my mouth shut. Also, and seriously, I find my forms so diverse and often highly specialized as I can't see a framework fit in and certainly not worth spending the time to build it. If inheritance was possible, I might reconsider, but I guess that won't ever happen. /gustav > I'm not telling you do to anything. I was trying to add to the > discussion, pointing out that performance is based on design decisions that > are made in the framework. You are taking an OOP approach and the same > fundamentals apply no matter which language your dealing with. > I don't understand why your taking this so personally. I never said that > what you were doing was not worth it. I was discussing frameworks in > general. This has nothing to do with me leaving Access for VFP, which I > have not (I still use both tools on a regular basis). I would love to see > someone do a commercial framework for Access. But after 10 years of > existence, one has to ask themselves why there are not a truck load of them > already. > You asked for input about the design of frameworks and I've brought up a > few issues (performance and distribution of new versions). If you don't > want to address them and explore these areas then fine. But if that's the > case, then don't ask for the input in the first place. From gustav at cactus.dk Tue Mar 16 09:07:30 2004 From: gustav at cactus.dk (Gustav Brock) Date: Tue, 16 Mar 2004 16:07:30 +0100 Subject: [AccessD] Re: [Private] Framework Discussion - Dependent Objects In-Reply-To: <11927622088.20040316160014@cactus.dk> References: <11927622088.20040316160014@cactus.dk> Message-ID: <13028057995.20040316160730@cactus.dk> Oops, sorry, didn't mean to post to the list. Actually decided to stay off the discussion as it is evolving. /gustav From rl_stewart at highstream.net Tue Mar 16 09:37:58 2004 From: rl_stewart at highstream.net (Robert L. Stewart) Date: Tue, 16 Mar 2004 09:37:58 -0600 Subject: [AccessD] Re: Transaction in MS-Access INFO REQUIRED In-Reply-To: <200403161504.i2GF44M30435@databaseadvisors.com> Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20040316093312.02a5b630@pop3.highstream.net> Actually, there is. But, it is limited to the scope of the transaction and not based on a log file. SQL Server has both, transaction based ROLLBACK/COMMIT capability and the capability to go back to a log and rebuild transaction based on entries into it. From MS Access Help: BeginTrans, CommitTrans, Rollback Methods Example This example changes the job title of all sales representatives in the Employees table of the database. After the BeginTrans method starts a transaction that isolates all the changes made to the Employees table, the CommitTrans method saves the changes. Notice that you can use the Rollback method to undo changes that you saved using the Update method. Furthermore, the main transaction is nested within another transaction that automatically rolls back any changes made by the user during this example. One or more table pages remain locked while the user decides whether or not to accept the changes. For this reason, this technique isn't recommended but shown only as an example. Sub BeginTransX() Dim strName As String Dim strMessage As String Dim wrkDefault As Workspace Dim dbsNorthwind As Database Dim rstEmployees As Recordset ' Get default Workspace. Set wrkDefault = DBEngine.Workspaces(0) Set dbsNorthwind = OpenDatabase("Northwind.mdb") Set rstEmployees = _ dbsNorthwind.OpenRecordset("Employees") ' Start of outer transaction. wrkDefault.BeginTrans ' Start of main transaction. wrkDefault.BeginTrans With rstEmployees ' Loop through recordset and ask user if she wants to ' change the title for a specified employee. Do Until .EOF If !Title = "Sales Representative" Then strName = !LastName & ", " & !FirstName strMessage = "Employee: " & strName & vbCr & _ "Change title to Account Executive?" ' Change the title for the specified employee. If MsgBox(strMessage, vbYesNo) = vbYes Then .Edit !Title = "Account Executive" .Update End If End If .MoveNext Loop ' Ask if the user wants to commit to all the changes ' made above. If MsgBox("Save all changes?", vbYesNo) = vbYes Then wrkDefault.CommitTrans Else wrkDefault.Rollback End If ' Print current data in recordset. .MoveFirst Do While Not .EOF Debug.Print !LastName & ", " & !FirstName & _ " - " & !Title .MoveNext Loop ' Roll back any changes made by the user since this is ' a demonstration. wrkDefault.Rollback .Close End With dbsNorthwind.Close End Sub BeginTrans, CommitTrans, Rollback Methods The transaction methods manage transaction processing during a session defined by a Workspace object as follows: ? BeginTrans begins a new transaction. ? CommitTrans ends the ? current transaction and saves the changes. ? Rollback ends the current transaction and restores the databases in the Workspace object to the state they were in when the current transaction began. Syntax workspace.BeginTrans | CommitTrans [dbForceOSFlush] | Rollback The workspace placeholder is an object variable that represents the Workspace containing the databases that will use transactions. Remarks You use these methods with a Workspace object when you want to treat a series of changes made to the databases in a session as one unit. Typically, you use transactions to maintain the integrity of your data when you must both update records in two or more tables and ensure changes are completed (committed) in all tables or none at all (rolled back). For example, if you transfer money from one account to another, you might subtract an amount from one and add the amount to another. If either update fails, the accounts no longer balance. Use the BeginTrans method before updating the first record, and then, if any subsequent update fails, you can use the Rollback method to undo all of the updates. Use the CommitTrans method after you successfully update the last record. In a Microsoft Jet workspace, you can include the dbForceOSFlush constant with CommitTrans. This forces the database engine to immediately flush all updates to disk, instead of caching them temporarily. Without using this option, a user could get control back immediately after the application program calls CommitTrans, turn the computer off, and not have the data written to disk. While using this option may affect your application?s performance, it is useful in situations where the computer could be shut off before cached updates are saved to disk. Caution Within one Workspace object, transactions are always global to the Workspace and aren't limited to only one Connection or Database object. If you perform operations on more than one connection or database within a Workspace transaction, resolving the transaction (that is, using the CommitTrans or Rollback method) affects all operations on all connections and databases within that workspace. After you use CommitTrans, you can't undo changes made during that transaction unless the transaction is nested within another transaction that is itself rolled back. If you nest transactions, you must resolve the current transaction before you can resolve a transaction at a higher level of nesting. If you want to have simultaneous transactions with overlapping, non-nested scopes, you can create additional Workspace objects to contain the concurrent transactions. If you close a Workspace object without resolving any pending transactions, the transactions are automatically rolled back. If you use the CommitTrans or Rollback method without first using the BeginTrans method, an error occurs. Some ISAM databases used in a Microsoft Jet workspace may not support transactions, in which case the Transactions property of the Database object or Recordset object is False. To make sure the database supports transactions, check the value of the Transactions property of the Database object before using the BeginTrans method. If you are using a Recordset object based on more than one database, check the Transactions property of the Recordset object. If a Recordset is based entirely on Microsoft Jet tables, you can always use transactions. Recordset objects based on tables created by other database products, however, may not support transactions. For example, you can't use transactions in a Recordset based on a Paradox table. In this case, the Transactions property is False. If the Database or Recordset doesn't support transactions, the methods are ignored and no error occurs. You can't nest transactions if you are accessing ODBC data sources through the Microsoft Jet database engine. In ODBC workspaces, when you use CommitTrans your cursor may no longer be valid. Use the Requery method to view the changes in the Recordset, or close and re-open the Recordset. Notes ? You can often improve the performance of your application by breaking operations that require disk access into transaction blocks. This buffers your operations and may significantly reduce the number of times a disk is accessed. ? In a Microsoft Jet workspace, transactions are logged in a file kept in the directory specified by the TEMP environment variable on the workstation. If the transaction log file exhausts the available storage on your TEMP drive, the database engine triggers a run-time error. At this point, if you use CommitTrans, an indeterminate number of operations are committed, but the remaining uncompleted operations are lost, and the operation has to be restarted. Using a Rollback method releases the transaction log and rolls back all operations in the transaction. ? Closing a clone Recordset within a pending transaction will cause an implicit Rollback operation. BeginTrans, CommitTrans, and RollbackTrans Methods These transaction methods manage transaction processing within a Connection object as follows: ? BeginTrans ? Begins a new transaction. ? CommitTrans ? Saves any changes and ends the current transaction. It may also start a new transaction. ? RollbackTrans ? Cancels any changes made during the current transaction and ends the transaction. It may also start a new transaction. Syntax level = object.BeginTrans() object.BeginTrans object.CommitTrans object.RollbackTrans Return Value BeginTrans can be called as a function that returns a Long variable indicating the nesting level of the transaction. Parameters object A Connection object. Connection Use these methods with a Connection object when you want to save or cancel a series of changes made to the source data as a single unit. For example, to transfer money between accounts, you subtract an amount from one and add the same amount to the other. If either update fails, the accounts no longer balance. Making these changes within an open transaction ensures that either all or none of the changes go through. Note Not all providers support transactions. Verify that the provider-defined property "Transaction DDL" appears in the Connection object's Properties collection, indicating that the provider supports transactions. If the provider does not support transactions, calling one of these methods will return an error. After you call the BeginTrans method, the provider will no longer instantaneously commit changes you make until you call CommitTrans or RollbackTrans to end the transaction. For providers that support nested transactions, calling the BeginTrans method within an open transaction starts a new, nested transaction. The return value indicates the level of nesting: a return value of "1" indicates you have opened a top-level transaction (that is, the transaction is not nested within another transaction), "2" indicates that you have opened a second-level transaction (a transaction nested within a top-level transaction), and so forth. Calling CommitTrans or RollbackTrans affects only the most recently opened transaction; you must close or roll back the current transaction before you can resolve any higher-level transactions. Calling the CommitTrans method saves changes made within an open transaction on the connection and ends the transaction. Calling the RollbackTrans method reverses any changes made within an open transaction and ends the transaction. Calling either method when there is no open transaction generates an error. Depending on the Connection object's Attributes property, calling either the CommitTrans or RollbackTrans methods may automatically start a new transaction. If the Attributes property is set to adXactCommitRetaining, the provider automatically starts a new transaction after a CommitTrans call. If the Attributes property is set to adXactAbortRetaining, the provider automatically starts a new transaction after a RollbackTrans call. At 09:04 AM 3/16/2004 -0600, you wrote: >Date: Tue, 16 Mar 2004 09:11:12 -0500 >From: "Jim Dettman" >Subject: RE: [AccessD] Transaction in MS-Access INFO REQUIRED >To: "Access Developers discussion and problem solving" > >Message-ID: >Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" > >Sander/John, > > Actually, to be a little more specific, there is no rollback/forward >capability with JET as the database engine, but if you use Access with MSDE >or SQL Server, then you pick that up. > >Jim Dettman >Online Computer Services of WNY, Inc. >(315) 699-3443 >jimdettman at earthlink.net From jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com Tue Mar 16 09:54:40 2004 From: jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com (John W. Colby) Date: Tue, 16 Mar 2004 10:54:40 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Framework Discussion - Dependent Objects In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Jim, I certainly don't want to squash discussion and I don't want to hurt your feelings or anyone else's. I am not exactly taking it personally, however it does feel as if I am "defending" trying to extend the capabilities of Access using a class and frameworks using comparison against tools that simply don't compare. IT simply isn't useful to discuss Access in terms of FoxPro, or .NET, C++, VB. I mean it is useful to do that, if the objective is to decide whether or not to use Access or simply move to something else for the capabilities that the something else provides. What isn't useful is to compare what can be done "in terms of" that something else. >I'm not sure what you think I mean by "overloading" Overloading means inheriting a parent class, then taking a defined method in the parent class, and writing the exact same syntax function call replacing the functionality with something different. Dog "Barks", Daschund "barks" but entirely differently. I inherit dog, and then write a new "bark" method changing the code (usually but not always writing entirely new code) to change what happens when the user calls my bark method. I then save that as a Daschund object of the dog lineage. If you are going to use OO phrases and keywords I am going to respond that that isn't useful. While defining "overloading" as adding more methods and properties to a class is a humorous definition (makes me envision a poor boat class sinking under the waves) it is not what the word means, and I was responding to an apparent (to me) attempt to apply OO terminology to a patently non OO environment. >And this was exactly my point. Your choice was either to create a new class in the Framework to handle a text control with a popup calendar or add properties and methods to a single class so it can do both jobs. Let's be clear (I think I already have but...) I don't add 13 different text box classes. There is a single textbox class and my form's control scanner loads that class for every text box it encounters. You could if you desired use a system of 13 different text box classes if you wanted to use a naming convention where you used something like txtAXXX txtBXXX etc and then in the scanner parsed the first 4 characters of the text box to discover which class to load. The problem with doing this is that now the framework only works with your specific naming convention. >I'm not telling you do to anything. I was trying to add to the discussion, pointing out that performance is based on design decisions that are made in the framework. You are taking an OOP approach and the same fundamentals apply no matter which language your dealing with. And I am trying to point out that to a large extent my design decisions are made for me by Microsoft's denial of OO capabilities to Office programmers. I am not taking an OOP approach, I am using a pitiful tool to the best of my abilities. I am NOT taking an OOP approach. I am using a class to wrap an object. I am NOT taking an OOP approach. Access and Office does NOT have OOP tools in any significant meaning of the word. It does have classes, and it has Withevents. These devices (along with the forms and controls) are called objects, so you could say I am doing OBJECT PROGRAMMING, but that is not the same as OBJECT ORIENTED PROGRAMMING. Those classes and controls cannot be inherited, I can't overload their methods (since I can't inherit them), these classes are just an object defined in and of themselves and stand alone. I am doing nothing more or less than wrapping an object in a class and adding new methods and properties using the class. That is NOT an OOP approach because I don't have OOP tools to approach the task with! As for some fundamentals applying... I will grant you that a developer could design 13 text box classes if they wished. Or take all of that functionality and put it in a single text box class. So whereas you as a FoxPro developer can sit there for months trying to define which level of inheritance you want to put the bark method at, I get to make a decision (in about 15 minutes) as to whether I use 13 text box classes or one. I did think about this long ago ad decided (in about 15 minutes) that it ultimately did not make sense to maintain 13 text box classes, that the additional code and properties in a single class was not excessive overhead and that was that. >I would love to see someone do a commercial framework for Access. But after 10 years of existence, one has to ask themselves why there are not a truck load of them already. There are many reasons. 1) Programmers who use frameworks expect a system that they can just inherit and add their own stuff to - see your own posts!!! That simply isn't possible with Access. Thus they are left with using the framework as is and funneling change requests to the developer, and perhaps never seeing their requests implemented, or "rolling their own". 2) Access as an environment is entirely different form other development environments in that data stores are done in MDBs, there is the FE/BE split issue, and where do you put the table data for the framework, the framework relative to the FE (application), back end (it can talk to SQL Server and other data stores as well) so that changes aren't overwritten by the next rev of the framework. Little problems that get in the way. Most Access developers don't want to have to think about these things because it can make your head hurt. 3) There are so many "access developers" who don't have a clue what a library is much less what a framework is, and so few (percentage wise) that do understand all of these issues. Where is the market? What are the support costs? Imagine selling a thousand copies and then getting 900 phone calls (or emails) a day for the rest of your life asking how to do something. The unfortunate reality is that Access has a huge percentage of "power users calling themselves developers", and a miniscule percentage of IT trained professionals selecting Access as their primary tool. >You asked for input about the design of frameworks and I've brought up a few issues (performance and distribution of new versions). If you don't want to address them and explore these areas then fine. But if that's the case, then don't ask for the input in the first place. And I have responded re performance. As far as I can tell (and I have been using my framework for many years in various implementations) performance simply isn't an issue for all the reasons I outlined. I encourage you and anyone else to explore this for themselves. I did extensive timings of classes loading and unloading, using forms that loaded a TON of controls (not useful forms, just forms that I copied hundreds of controls onto for testing purposes). I then timed the open (with NO FORM / CONTROL DATA LOADING) so that I could get a sense of the load / unload times of classes. My conclusion using an OLD SLOW computer was that each class took under 1/2 millisecond to load. With my current workstation a form with 288 control classes plus the form class took 60 milli-seconds to run the control scanner and load the classes for those controls (I just built a test form to time that)! Sure, further performance analysis is always welcome but that should at least give a rough feeling for the speed of things. As for distributions (I guess I missed that in your previous post) that is only an issue if the developer who buys the framework expects to "overload it". If they do then they need to be gently reminded that Access is not OO and to go elsewhere if that is their expectation! "What you get is what you get" and if you need additional things you request hooks or simply do things that aren't framework supported on a form by form, control by control basis. After all, if they are not using a framework, they are already doing exactly that except with ALL of their functionality! Or build their own framework. My article series is showing this list exactly how to do that. So Jim, lets discuss frameworks by all means. Just don't bother trying to discuss it in comparison to things it isn't. As some famous philosopher once said (roughly): "It isn't useful to try and teach a pig to sing. It won't work and you'll just piss off the pig". Access can do a very few things to make your life better when it comes to frameworks. I will discuss for hours the merits of building 13 text box classes vs. one, why you would do one, why you would do the other, how you would implement the system if you chose to do so. But to try to cast it in the light of OOP programming just obfuscates the reality... it ain't. Please don't go away mad, in fact don't go away at all. Just approach the subject from an angle that allows us to perform a useful engineering analysis of what can be done with the tools we have. We have classes, and we have withevents. We have objects (controls and classes), none of which can be inherited or anything that goes along with inheritance. Those are the ground rules. How can we do something useful with that in the context of a framework? John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Jim Dettman Sent: Tuesday, March 16, 2004 9:07 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] Framework Discussion - Dependent Objects John, I'm not sure what you think I mean by "overloading", but what I'm saying is that you have a choice: You either build numerous classes to handle specific behavior or you overload a single class with more properties and methods to make it handle more then one type of behavior. <> And this was exactly my point. Your choice was either to create a new class in the Framework to handle a text control with a popup calendar or add properties and methods to a single class so it can do both jobs. <> I'm not telling you do to anything. I was trying to add to the discussion, pointing out that performance is based on design decisions that are made in the framework. You are taking an OOP approach and the same fundamentals apply no matter which language your dealing with. I don't understand why your taking this so personally. I never said that what you were doing was not worth it. I was discussing frameworks in general. This has nothing to do with me leaving Access for VFP, which I have not (I still use both tools on a regular basis). I would love to see someone do a commercial framework for Access. But after 10 years of existence, one has to ask themselves why there are not a truck load of them already. You asked for input about the design of frameworks and I've brought up a few issues (performance and distribution of new versions). If you don't want to address them and explore these areas then fine. But if that's the case, then don't ask for the input in the first place. Jim (315) 699-3443 jimdettman at earthlink.net From rsmethurst at UK.EY.COM Tue Mar 16 10:05:40 2004 From: rsmethurst at UK.EY.COM (rsmethurst at UK.EY.COM) Date: Tue, 16 Mar 2004 16:05:40 +0000 Subject: [AccessD] Framework Discussion - Implements Message-ID: Hi All, In light of all the mails about classes, frameworks and implementation etc. (most of which I am finding very interesting). Could someone explain to me the difference between the 'Implements' statement and how this is differs from inheritance. Thanks Ryan This e-mail and any attachment are confidential and contain proprietary information, some or all of which may be legally privileged. It is intended solely for the use of the individual or entity to which it is addressed. If you are not the intended recipient, please notify the author immediately by telephone or by replying to this e-mail, and then delete all copies of the e-mail on your system. If you are not the intended recipient, you must not use, disclose, distribute, copy, print or rely on this e-mail. Whilst we have taken reasonable precautions to ensure that this e-mail and any attachment has been checked for viruses, we cannot guarantee that they are virus free and we cannot accept liability for any damage sustained as a result of software viruses. We would advise that you carry out your own virus checks, especially before opening an attachment. The UK firm Ernst & Young LLP is a limited liability partnership registered in England and Wales with registered number OC300001 and is a member practice of Ernst & Young Global. A list of members? names is available for inspection at 1 More London Place, London, SE1 2AF, the firm?s principal place of business and its registered office. From jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com Tue Mar 16 10:22:51 2004 From: jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com (John W. Colby) Date: Tue, 16 Mar 2004 11:22:51 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Re: [Private] Framework Discussion - Dependent Objects In-Reply-To: <13028057995.20040316160730@cactus.dk> Message-ID: ROTFL. John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Gustav Brock Sent: Tuesday, March 16, 2004 10:08 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: [AccessD] Re: [Private] Framework Discussion - Dependent Objects Oops, sorry, didn't mean to post to the list. Actually decided to stay off the discussion as it is evolving. /gustav -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From James at fcidms.com Tue Mar 16 10:45:43 2004 From: James at fcidms.com (James Barash) Date: Tue, 16 Mar 2004 11:45:43 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Framework Discussion - Dependent Objects In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <200403161645.LAA13642@jake.bcentralhost.com> John, I'm not trying to get in the middle of your discussion but I think you are using the wrong definition of "overloading", at least in terms of OO programming. Overloading refers to defining the same method or property with different signatures. In other words, if you define a method but want to be able to pass different parameters, you "overload" the method by defining it more than once,with each definition having different parameters. As long as you are passing different types or number of parameters, it will work in an OO language. In VB.net, there is no variant type so if you need to pass different types to a function, you would have multiple definitions, one for each data type you might need. What you are defining is "overriding", where the inherited class definition of a property or method "overrides" that of the base class. That way, your inherited class can have different functionality than the base class. When overriding, the property or method must have the same signature as that of the base class. As far as I've been able to tell, there is no "overloading" in Access, but you can, to some extent, "override" I'm been very impressed by your explainations of your framework, at least as much as I've been able to read, and I'm not in any way trying to start an argument, but clearly the differences in the definition of terms is causing disagreements. James Barash -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of John W. Colby Sent: Tuesday, March 16, 2004 10:55 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] Framework Discussion - Dependent Objects Jim, I certainly don't want to squash discussion and I don't want to hurt your feelings or anyone else's. I am not exactly taking it personally, however it does feel as if I am "defending" trying to extend the capabilities of Access using a class and frameworks using comparison against tools that simply don't compare. IT simply isn't useful to discuss Access in terms of FoxPro, or .NET, C++, VB. I mean it is useful to do that, if the objective is to decide whether or not to use Access or simply move to something else for the capabilities that the something else provides. What isn't useful is to compare what can be done "in terms of" that something else. >I'm not sure what you think I mean by "overloading" Overloading means inheriting a parent class, then taking a defined method in the parent class, and writing the exact same syntax function call replacing the functionality with something different. Dog "Barks", Daschund "barks" but entirely differently. I inherit dog, and then write a new "bark" method changing the code (usually but not always writing entirely new code) to change what happens when the user calls my bark method. I then save that as a Daschund object of the dog lineage. If you are going to use OO phrases and keywords I am going to respond that that isn't useful. While defining "overloading" as adding more methods and properties to a class is a humorous definition (makes me envision a poor boat class sinking under the waves) it is not what the word means, and I was responding to an apparent (to me) attempt to apply OO terminology to a patently non OO environment. >And this was exactly my point. Your choice was either to create a new class in the Framework to handle a text control with a popup calendar or add properties and methods to a single class so it can do both jobs. Let's be clear (I think I already have but...) I don't add 13 different text box classes. There is a single textbox class and my form's control scanner loads that class for every text box it encounters. You could if you desired use a system of 13 different text box classes if you wanted to use a naming convention where you used something like txtAXXX txtBXXX etc and then in the scanner parsed the first 4 characters of the text box to discover which class to load. The problem with doing this is that now the framework only works with your specific naming convention. >I'm not telling you do to anything. I was trying to add to the discussion, pointing out that performance is based on design decisions that are made in the framework. You are taking an OOP approach and the same fundamentals apply no matter which language your dealing with. And I am trying to point out that to a large extent my design decisions are made for me by Microsoft's denial of OO capabilities to Office programmers. I am not taking an OOP approach, I am using a pitiful tool to the best of my abilities. I am NOT taking an OOP approach. I am using a class to wrap an object. I am NOT taking an OOP approach. Access and Office does NOT have OOP tools in any significant meaning of the word. It does have classes, and it has Withevents. These devices (along with the forms and controls) are called objects, so you could say I am doing OBJECT PROGRAMMING, but that is not the same as OBJECT ORIENTED PROGRAMMING. Those classes and controls cannot be inherited, I can't overload their methods (since I can't inherit them), these classes are just an object defined in and of themselves and stand alone. I am doing nothing more or less than wrapping an object in a class and adding new methods and properties using the class. That is NOT an OOP approach because I don't have OOP tools to approach the task with! As for some fundamentals applying... I will grant you that a developer could design 13 text box classes if they wished. Or take all of that functionality and put it in a single text box class. So whereas you as a FoxPro developer can sit there for months trying to define which level of inheritance you want to put the bark method at, I get to make a decision (in about 15 minutes) as to whether I use 13 text box classes or one. I did think about this long ago ad decided (in about 15 minutes) that it ultimately did not make sense to maintain 13 text box classes, that the additional code and properties in a single class was not excessive overhead and that was that. >I would love to see someone do a commercial framework for Access. But after 10 years of existence, one has to ask themselves why there are not a truck load of them already. There are many reasons. 1) Programmers who use frameworks expect a system that they can just inherit and add their own stuff to - see your own posts!!! That simply isn't possible with Access. Thus they are left with using the framework as is and funneling change requests to the developer, and perhaps never seeing their requests implemented, or "rolling their own". 2) Access as an environment is entirely different form other development environments in that data stores are done in MDBs, there is the FE/BE split issue, and where do you put the table data for the framework, the framework relative to the FE (application), back end (it can talk to SQL Server and other data stores as well) so that changes aren't overwritten by the next rev of the framework. Little problems that get in the way. Most Access developers don't want to have to think about these things because it can make your head hurt. 3) There are so many "access developers" who don't have a clue what a library is much less what a framework is, and so few (percentage wise) that do understand all of these issues. Where is the market? What are the support costs? Imagine selling a thousand copies and then getting 900 phone calls (or emails) a day for the rest of your life asking how to do something. The unfortunate reality is that Access has a huge percentage of "power users calling themselves developers", and a miniscule percentage of IT trained professionals selecting Access as their primary tool. >You asked for input about the design of frameworks and I've brought up a few issues (performance and distribution of new versions). If you don't want to address them and explore these areas then fine. But if that's the case, then don't ask for the input in the first place. And I have responded re performance. As far as I can tell (and I have been using my framework for many years in various implementations) performance simply isn't an issue for all the reasons I outlined. I encourage you and anyone else to explore this for themselves. I did extensive timings of classes loading and unloading, using forms that loaded a TON of controls (not useful forms, just forms that I copied hundreds of controls onto for testing purposes). I then timed the open (with NO FORM / CONTROL DATA LOADING) so that I could get a sense of the load / unload times of classes. My conclusion using an OLD SLOW computer was that each class took under 1/2 millisecond to load. With my current workstation a form with 288 control classes plus the form class took 60 milli-seconds to run the control scanner and load the classes for those controls (I just built a test form to time that)! Sure, further performance analysis is always welcome but that should at least give a rough feeling for the speed of things. As for distributions (I guess I missed that in your previous post) that is only an issue if the developer who buys the framework expects to "overload it". If they do then they need to be gently reminded that Access is not OO and to go elsewhere if that is their expectation! "What you get is what you get" and if you need additional things you request hooks or simply do things that aren't framework supported on a form by form, control by control basis. After all, if they are not using a framework, they are already doing exactly that except with ALL of their functionality! Or build their own framework. My article series is showing this list exactly how to do that. So Jim, lets discuss frameworks by all means. Just don't bother trying to discuss it in comparison to things it isn't. As some famous philosopher once said (roughly): "It isn't useful to try and teach a pig to sing. It won't work and you'll just piss off the pig". Access can do a very few things to make your life better when it comes to frameworks. I will discuss for hours the merits of building 13 text box classes vs. one, why you would do one, why you would do the other, how you would implement the system if you chose to do so. But to try to cast it in the light of OOP programming just obfuscates the reality... it ain't. Please don't go away mad, in fact don't go away at all. Just approach the subject from an angle that allows us to perform a useful engineering analysis of what can be done with the tools we have. We have classes, and we have withevents. We have objects (controls and classes), none of which can be inherited or anything that goes along with inheritance. Those are the ground rules. How can we do something useful with that in the context of a framework? John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Jim Dettman Sent: Tuesday, March 16, 2004 9:07 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] Framework Discussion - Dependent Objects John, I'm not sure what you think I mean by "overloading", but what I'm saying is that you have a choice: You either build numerous classes to handle specific behavior or you overload a single class with more properties and methods to make it handle more then one type of behavior. <> And this was exactly my point. Your choice was either to create a new class in the Framework to handle a text control with a popup calendar or add properties and methods to a single class so it can do both jobs. <> I'm not telling you do to anything. I was trying to add to the discussion, pointing out that performance is based on design decisions that are made in the framework. You are taking an OOP approach and the same fundamentals apply no matter which language your dealing with. I don't understand why your taking this so personally. I never said that what you were doing was not worth it. I was discussing frameworks in general. This has nothing to do with me leaving Access for VFP, which I have not (I still use both tools on a regular basis). I would love to see someone do a commercial framework for Access. But after 10 years of existence, one has to ask themselves why there are not a truck load of them already. You asked for input about the design of frameworks and I've brought up a few issues (performance and distribution of new versions). If you don't want to address them and explore these areas then fine. But if that's the case, then don't ask for the input in the first place. Jim (315) 699-3443 jimdettman at earthlink.net -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com Tue Mar 16 10:51:14 2004 From: jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com (John W. Colby) Date: Tue, 16 Mar 2004 11:51:14 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Framework Discussion - Implements In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Ryan, I can't help you with Implements because, in the stuff that I have been doing, I can't find a use for it. It seems to be a method of declaring that a specific object belongs to a higher level class of objects, ad allow you to dimension that object as that higher level object. In other words, you define a class with PUBLIC variables (generally considered a no-no) and a bunch of method and property STUBS. Once you have done that you create other classes that "implements" the parent class. It appears that the parent class' public variables magically become private in the class that implements the parent object. So from that perspective it would be useful (If I could figure out how to do it) as a means of defining a set of variables so that I don't have to define them again in other similar objects. The methods in the "parent" class have no code in them. They are just an empty declaration with a name and the parameters (with their type) that you expect to be using in this parent object. So... AFAICT you have managed true inheritance for a small set of variables and defined that you will provide a small set of methods. I am quite sure that this is useful to some people. It seems that the argument is that you now can dimension your object as an instance of the parent object and have early binding, able to see all of the properties defined in that parent object etc. What isn't clear (since I haven't ever used them) is that whether I can also see all of my own custom properties not defined in the parent object using early binding. If so then using this stuff would at least have a use to me. OOP and what is called "implementation inheritance" means that you take a parent class and "inherit" all of the code and variables in that parent. If the parent is a dog, and that parent class has a bark method, I can inherit dog and not write a line of code have a barking dog. I can now add "dance" and I now have a dancing barking dog, but all I had to do is write the dance method. I have inherited the whole kit and caboodle including the implementation of existing code in the parent. Remember that Access' version has no code at all in that parent object because it can't be inherited by the child object. There are others on the list that actually use this stuff, at least out in VB. It would be nice if they could write a demo (in Access) that shows us how this stuff all works, but no one has ever offered to do that. I don't know how so I can't do it for you. 8-( John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of rsmethurst at uk.ey.com Sent: Tuesday, March 16, 2004 11:06 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] Framework Discussion - Implements Hi All, In light of all the mails about classes, frameworks and implementation etc. (most of which I am finding very interesting). Could someone explain to me the difference between the 'Implements' statement and how this is differs from inheritance. Thanks Ryan This e-mail and any attachment are confidential and contain proprietary information, some or all of which may be legally privileged. It is intended solely for the use of the individual or entity to which it is addressed. If you are not the intended recipient, please notify the author immediately by telephone or by replying to this e-mail, and then delete all copies of the e-mail on your system. If you are not the intended recipient, you must not use, disclose, distribute, copy, print or rely on this e-mail. Whilst we have taken reasonable precautions to ensure that this e-mail and any attachment has been checked for viruses, we cannot guarantee that they are virus free and we cannot accept liability for any damage sustained as a result of software viruses. We would advise that you carry out your own virus checks, especially before opening an attachment. The UK firm Ernst & Young LLP is a limited liability partnership registered in England and Wales with registered number OC300001 and is a member practice of Ernst & Young Global. A list of members? names is available for inspection at 1 More London Place, London, SE1 2AF, the firm?s principal place of business and its registered office. -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From rsmethurst at UK.EY.COM Tue Mar 16 10:53:42 2004 From: rsmethurst at UK.EY.COM (rsmethurst at UK.EY.COM) Date: Tue, 16 Mar 2004 16:53:42 +0000 Subject: [AccessD] Framework Discussion - Implements Message-ID: Thanks John...as always, very helpful. Ryan This e-mail and any attachment are confidential and contain proprietary information, some or all of which may be legally privileged. It is intended solely for the use of the individual or entity to which it is addressed. If you are not the intended recipient, please notify the author immediately by telephone or by replying to this e-mail, and then delete all copies of the e-mail on your system. If you are not the intended recipient, you must not use, disclose, distribute, copy, print or rely on this e-mail. Whilst we have taken reasonable precautions to ensure that this e-mail and any attachment has been checked for viruses, we cannot guarantee that they are virus free and we cannot accept liability for any damage sustained as a result of software viruses. We would advise that you carry out your own virus checks, especially before opening an attachment. The UK firm Ernst & Young LLP is a limited liability partnership registered in England and Wales with registered number OC300001 and is a member practice of Ernst & Young Global. A list of members? names is available for inspection at 1 More London Place, London, SE1 2AF, the firm?s principal place of business and its registered office. From rjhjr at cox.net Tue Mar 16 11:02:41 2004 From: rjhjr at cox.net (Bob Hall) Date: Tue, 16 Mar 2004 12:02:41 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Framework Discussion - Dependent Objects In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <20040316170240.GC86196@kongemord.krig.net> Hi John, On Tue, Mar 16, 2004 at 10:54:40AM -0500, John W. Colby wrote: > Overloading means inheriting a parent class, then taking a defined method in > the parent class, and writing the exact same syntax function call replacing > the functionality with something different. Dog "Barks", Daschund "barks" > but entirely differently. I inherit dog, and then write a new "bark" method > changing the code (usually but not always writing entirely new code) to > change what happens when the user calls my bark method. I then save that as > a Daschund object of the dog lineage. Overloading doesn't involve inheritence, and the syntax of the function call can change. The definition is that the same function name (or operator symbol) is used with different parameters (or operands). For example, I can overload DrawSolid() so that it draws a four-sided solid when passed four points, and a five-sided solid when passed five points. I don't do this by inheritence; I just write a new definition of DrawSolid(). What you describe above is polymorphism. Bob Hall From cfoust at infostatsystems.com Tue Mar 16 11:20:49 2004 From: cfoust at infostatsystems.com (Charlotte Foust) Date: Tue, 16 Mar 2004 09:20:49 -0800 Subject: [AccessD] Framework Discussion - Implements Message-ID: There was quite a discussion of Implements vs WithEvents back in January. You might want to search the archives for it. Charlotte Foust -----Original Message----- From: rsmethurst at uk.ey.com [mailto:rsmethurst at uk.ey.com] Sent: Tuesday, March 16, 2004 8:54 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] Framework Discussion - Implements Thanks John...as always, very helpful. Ryan This e-mail and any attachment are confidential and contain proprietary information, some or all of which may be legally privileged. It is intended solely for the use of the individual or entity to which it is addressed. If you are not the intended recipient, please notify the author immediately by telephone or by replying to this e-mail, and then delete all copies of the e-mail on your system. If you are not the intended recipient, you must not use, disclose, distribute, copy, print or rely on this e-mail. Whilst we have taken reasonable precautions to ensure that this e-mail and any attachment has been checked for viruses, we cannot guarantee that they are virus free and we cannot accept liability for any damage sustained as a result of software viruses. We would advise that you carry out your own virus checks, especially before opening an attachment. The UK firm Ernst & Young LLP is a limited liability partnership registered in England and Wales with registered number OC300001 and is a member practice of Ernst & Young Global. A list of members? names is available for inspection at 1 More London Place, London, SE1 2AF, the firm?s principal place of business and its registered office. -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From cfoust at infostatsystems.com Tue Mar 16 11:23:30 2004 From: cfoust at infostatsystems.com (Charlotte Foust) Date: Tue, 16 Mar 2004 09:23:30 -0800 Subject: [AccessD] Framework Discussion - Dependent Objects Message-ID: Unfortunately, however you define it, Access VBA does not allow overloading OR polymorphism OR inheritance. If the discussion is going to degenerate into hair splitting, then I think the mods (and JC) should consider ending it. Charlotte Foust -----Original Message----- From: Bob Hall [mailto:rjhjr at cox.net] Sent: Tuesday, March 16, 2004 9:03 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Framework Discussion - Dependent Objects Hi John, On Tue, Mar 16, 2004 at 10:54:40AM -0500, John W. Colby wrote: > Overloading means inheriting a parent class, then taking a defined > method in the parent class, and writing the exact same syntax function > call replacing the functionality with something different. Dog > "Barks", Daschund "barks" but entirely differently. I inherit dog, > and then write a new "bark" method changing the code (usually but not > always writing entirely new code) to change what happens when the user > calls my bark method. I then save that as a Daschund object of the > dog lineage. Overloading doesn't involve inheritence, and the syntax of the function call can change. The definition is that the same function name (or operator symbol) is used with different parameters (or operands). For example, I can overload DrawSolid() so that it draws a four-sided solid when passed four points, and a five-sided solid when passed five points. I don't do this by inheritence; I just write a new definition of DrawSolid(). What you describe above is polymorphism. Bob Hall -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com Tue Mar 16 11:38:06 2004 From: jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com (John W. Colby) Date: Tue, 16 Mar 2004 12:38:06 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Framework Discussion - Dependent Objects In-Reply-To: <200403161645.LAA13642@jake.bcentralhost.com> Message-ID: Oooops. It's been too long since I actually worked in a real OOP language. Thanks for clarifying that. So overloading changes the definition in terms of the parameters passed, overriding changes the definition in terms of behavior. I assume you can override and overload at the same time? And as far as I can tell, in Access you can't override or overload since you can't inherit. Actually you could implement a crude form of inheritance manually, by building a class which dimensions a variable of the type of the "parent class", somehow telling the class what instance the parent was, then writing exactly the same methods and so forth, passing the calls to the child up to the parent. It would be extremely clumsy, in fact it would look very much like... wrappers around objects! ;-) Anyway, thanks for jumping in there with that correction. I used to know that stuff, but it was too long ago that I actually earned a living writing to an OOP language. Plus I'm getting old and the memory is failing. 8-( John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of James Barash Sent: Tuesday, March 16, 2004 11:46 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: [AccessD] Framework Discussion - Dependent Objects John, I'm not trying to get in the middle of your discussion but I think you are using the wrong definition of "overloading", at least in terms of OO programming. Overloading refers to defining the same method or property with different signatures. In other words, if you define a method but want to be able to pass different parameters, you "overload" the method by defining it more than once,with each definition having different parameters. As long as you are passing different types or number of parameters, it will work in an OO language. In VB.net, there is no variant type so if you need to pass different types to a function, you would have multiple definitions, one for each data type you might need. What you are defining is "overriding", where the inherited class definition of a property or method "overrides" that of the base class. That way, your inherited class can have different functionality than the base class. When overriding, the property or method must have the same signature as that of the base class. As far as I've been able to tell, there is no "overloading" in Access, but you can, to some extent, "override" I'm been very impressed by your explainations of your framework, at least as much as I've been able to read, and I'm not in any way trying to start an argument, but clearly the differences in the definition of terms is causing disagreements. James Barash -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of John W. Colby Sent: Tuesday, March 16, 2004 10:55 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] Framework Discussion - Dependent Objects Jim, I certainly don't want to squash discussion and I don't want to hurt your feelings or anyone else's. I am not exactly taking it personally, however it does feel as if I am "defending" trying to extend the capabilities of Access using a class and frameworks using comparison against tools that simply don't compare. IT simply isn't useful to discuss Access in terms of FoxPro, or .NET, C++, VB. I mean it is useful to do that, if the objective is to decide whether or not to use Access or simply move to something else for the capabilities that the something else provides. What isn't useful is to compare what can be done "in terms of" that something else. >I'm not sure what you think I mean by "overloading" Overloading means inheriting a parent class, then taking a defined method in the parent class, and writing the exact same syntax function call replacing the functionality with something different. Dog "Barks", Daschund "barks" but entirely differently. I inherit dog, and then write a new "bark" method changing the code (usually but not always writing entirely new code) to change what happens when the user calls my bark method. I then save that as a Daschund object of the dog lineage. If you are going to use OO phrases and keywords I am going to respond that that isn't useful. While defining "overloading" as adding more methods and properties to a class is a humorous definition (makes me envision a poor boat class sinking under the waves) it is not what the word means, and I was responding to an apparent (to me) attempt to apply OO terminology to a patently non OO environment. >And this was exactly my point. Your choice was either to create a new class in the Framework to handle a text control with a popup calendar or add properties and methods to a single class so it can do both jobs. Let's be clear (I think I already have but...) I don't add 13 different text box classes. There is a single textbox class and my form's control scanner loads that class for every text box it encounters. You could if you desired use a system of 13 different text box classes if you wanted to use a naming convention where you used something like txtAXXX txtBXXX etc and then in the scanner parsed the first 4 characters of the text box to discover which class to load. The problem with doing this is that now the framework only works with your specific naming convention. >I'm not telling you do to anything. I was trying to add to the discussion, pointing out that performance is based on design decisions that are made in the framework. You are taking an OOP approach and the same fundamentals apply no matter which language your dealing with. And I am trying to point out that to a large extent my design decisions are made for me by Microsoft's denial of OO capabilities to Office programmers. I am not taking an OOP approach, I am using a pitiful tool to the best of my abilities. I am NOT taking an OOP approach. I am using a class to wrap an object. I am NOT taking an OOP approach. Access and Office does NOT have OOP tools in any significant meaning of the word. It does have classes, and it has Withevents. These devices (along with the forms and controls) are called objects, so you could say I am doing OBJECT PROGRAMMING, but that is not the same as OBJECT ORIENTED PROGRAMMING. Those classes and controls cannot be inherited, I can't overload their methods (since I can't inherit them), these classes are just an object defined in and of themselves and stand alone. I am doing nothing more or less than wrapping an object in a class and adding new methods and properties using the class. That is NOT an OOP approach because I don't have OOP tools to approach the task with! As for some fundamentals applying... I will grant you that a developer could design 13 text box classes if they wished. Or take all of that functionality and put it in a single text box class. So whereas you as a FoxPro developer can sit there for months trying to define which level of inheritance you want to put the bark method at, I get to make a decision (in about 15 minutes) as to whether I use 13 text box classes or one. I did think about this long ago ad decided (in about 15 minutes) that it ultimately did not make sense to maintain 13 text box classes, that the additional code and properties in a single class was not excessive overhead and that was that. >I would love to see someone do a commercial framework for Access. But after 10 years of existence, one has to ask themselves why there are not a truck load of them already. There are many reasons. 1) Programmers who use frameworks expect a system that they can just inherit and add their own stuff to - see your own posts!!! That simply isn't possible with Access. Thus they are left with using the framework as is and funneling change requests to the developer, and perhaps never seeing their requests implemented, or "rolling their own". 2) Access as an environment is entirely different form other development environments in that data stores are done in MDBs, there is the FE/BE split issue, and where do you put the table data for the framework, the framework relative to the FE (application), back end (it can talk to SQL Server and other data stores as well) so that changes aren't overwritten by the next rev of the framework. Little problems that get in the way. Most Access developers don't want to have to think about these things because it can make your head hurt. 3) There are so many "access developers" who don't have a clue what a library is much less what a framework is, and so few (percentage wise) that do understand all of these issues. Where is the market? What are the support costs? Imagine selling a thousand copies and then getting 900 phone calls (or emails) a day for the rest of your life asking how to do something. The unfortunate reality is that Access has a huge percentage of "power users calling themselves developers", and a miniscule percentage of IT trained professionals selecting Access as their primary tool. >You asked for input about the design of frameworks and I've brought up a few issues (performance and distribution of new versions). If you don't want to address them and explore these areas then fine. But if that's the case, then don't ask for the input in the first place. And I have responded re performance. As far as I can tell (and I have been using my framework for many years in various implementations) performance simply isn't an issue for all the reasons I outlined. I encourage you and anyone else to explore this for themselves. I did extensive timings of classes loading and unloading, using forms that loaded a TON of controls (not useful forms, just forms that I copied hundreds of controls onto for testing purposes). I then timed the open (with NO FORM / CONTROL DATA LOADING) so that I could get a sense of the load / unload times of classes. My conclusion using an OLD SLOW computer was that each class took under 1/2 millisecond to load. With my current workstation a form with 288 control classes plus the form class took 60 milli-seconds to run the control scanner and load the classes for those controls (I just built a test form to time that)! Sure, further performance analysis is always welcome but that should at least give a rough feeling for the speed of things. As for distributions (I guess I missed that in your previous post) that is only an issue if the developer who buys the framework expects to "overload it". If they do then they need to be gently reminded that Access is not OO and to go elsewhere if that is their expectation! "What you get is what you get" and if you need additional things you request hooks or simply do things that aren't framework supported on a form by form, control by control basis. After all, if they are not using a framework, they are already doing exactly that except with ALL of their functionality! Or build their own framework. My article series is showing this list exactly how to do that. So Jim, lets discuss frameworks by all means. Just don't bother trying to discuss it in comparison to things it isn't. As some famous philosopher once said (roughly): "It isn't useful to try and teach a pig to sing. It won't work and you'll just piss off the pig". Access can do a very few things to make your life better when it comes to frameworks. I will discuss for hours the merits of building 13 text box classes vs. one, why you would do one, why you would do the other, how you would implement the system if you chose to do so. But to try to cast it in the light of OOP programming just obfuscates the reality... it ain't. Please don't go away mad, in fact don't go away at all. Just approach the subject from an angle that allows us to perform a useful engineering analysis of what can be done with the tools we have. We have classes, and we have withevents. We have objects (controls and classes), none of which can be inherited or anything that goes along with inheritance. Those are the ground rules. How can we do something useful with that in the context of a framework? John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Jim Dettman Sent: Tuesday, March 16, 2004 9:07 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] Framework Discussion - Dependent Objects John, I'm not sure what you think I mean by "overloading", but what I'm saying is that you have a choice: You either build numerous classes to handle specific behavior or you overload a single class with more properties and methods to make it handle more then one type of behavior. <> And this was exactly my point. Your choice was either to create a new class in the Framework to handle a text control with a popup calendar or add properties and methods to a single class so it can do both jobs. <> I'm not telling you do to anything. I was trying to add to the discussion, pointing out that performance is based on design decisions that are made in the framework. You are taking an OOP approach and the same fundamentals apply no matter which language your dealing with. I don't understand why your taking this so personally. I never said that what you were doing was not worth it. I was discussing frameworks in general. This has nothing to do with me leaving Access for VFP, which I have not (I still use both tools on a regular basis). I would love to see someone do a commercial framework for Access. But after 10 years of existence, one has to ask themselves why there are not a truck load of them already. You asked for input about the design of frameworks and I've brought up a few issues (performance and distribution of new versions). If you don't want to address them and explore these areas then fine. But if that's the case, then don't ask for the input in the first place. Jim (315) 699-3443 jimdettman at earthlink.net -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com Tue Mar 16 11:40:15 2004 From: jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com (John W. Colby) Date: Tue, 16 Mar 2004 12:40:15 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Framework Discussion - Dependent Objects In-Reply-To: <20040316170240.GC86196@kongemord.krig.net> Message-ID: Yea, so I now understand. Sorry for the confusion. All I really know is that absolutely NONE of that stuff applies to Access, which was what I was attempting to point out. "Talk OOP stuff and you might as well take it to a list where that matters." John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Bob Hall Sent: Tuesday, March 16, 2004 12:03 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Framework Discussion - Dependent Objects Hi John, On Tue, Mar 16, 2004 at 10:54:40AM -0500, John W. Colby wrote: > Overloading means inheriting a parent class, then taking a defined method in > the parent class, and writing the exact same syntax function call replacing > the functionality with something different. Dog "Barks", Daschund "barks" > but entirely differently. I inherit dog, and then write a new "bark" method > changing the code (usually but not always writing entirely new code) to > change what happens when the user calls my bark method. I then save that as > a Daschund object of the dog lineage. Overloading doesn't involve inheritence, and the syntax of the function call can change. The definition is that the same function name (or operator symbol) is used with different parameters (or operands). For example, I can overload DrawSolid() so that it draws a four-sided solid when passed four points, and a five-sided solid when passed five points. I don't do this by inheritence; I just write a new definition of DrawSolid(). What you describe above is polymorphism. Bob Hall -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com Tue Mar 16 11:42:15 2004 From: jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com (John W. Colby) Date: Tue, 16 Mar 2004 12:42:15 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Framework Discussion - Implements In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Yea, unfortunately a lot of discussion and NO working examples! I hate that! John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Charlotte Foust Sent: Tuesday, March 16, 2004 12:21 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] Framework Discussion - Implements There was quite a discussion of Implements vs WithEvents back in January. You might want to search the archives for it. Charlotte Foust -----Original Message----- From: rsmethurst at uk.ey.com [mailto:rsmethurst at uk.ey.com] Sent: Tuesday, March 16, 2004 8:54 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] Framework Discussion - Implements Thanks John...as always, very helpful. Ryan This e-mail and any attachment are confidential and contain proprietary information, some or all of which may be legally privileged. It is intended solely for the use of the individual or entity to which it is addressed. If you are not the intended recipient, please notify the author immediately by telephone or by replying to this e-mail, and then delete all copies of the e-mail on your system. If you are not the intended recipient, you must not use, disclose, distribute, copy, print or rely on this e-mail. Whilst we have taken reasonable precautions to ensure that this e-mail and any attachment has been checked for viruses, we cannot guarantee that they are virus free and we cannot accept liability for any damage sustained as a result of software viruses. We would advise that you carry out your own virus checks, especially before opening an attachment. The UK firm Ernst & Young LLP is a limited liability partnership registered in England and Wales with registered number OC300001 and is a member practice of Ernst & Young Global. A list of members? names is available for inspection at 1 More London Place, London, SE1 2AF, the firm?s principal place of business and its registered office. -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From stuart at lexacorp.com.pg Tue Mar 16 12:02:28 2004 From: stuart at lexacorp.com.pg (Stuart McLachlan) Date: Wed, 17 Mar 2004 04:02:28 +1000 Subject: [AccessD] OT - Internet Explorer 6.0 In-Reply-To: <33323297.1079446902283.JavaMail.www@wwinf3005> Message-ID: <4057CDD4.29689.148E35@localhost> On 16 Mar 2004 at 15:21, paul.hartland at fsmail.net wrote: > > windows 98SE is what I have at home > > First thing is to find out is what DNS Server your PC is using - this is probably set by your ISP when he allocates your IP Addresses. Look in your network settings and look at the TCP/IP settings for your internet connection. See whether you have DNS server(s) hard configured or whether you are set up to get one automatically when you get your IP address. Then you need to see what your current DNS Server is. IIRC in W9x, (I'm working from memory here, in W2K you use IPCONFIG /ALL), you need to open a command prompt and type WINIPCFG. That should give you a box containing details of your current IP configuration, hopefully showing the current DNS Server(s). Now from a command prompt, try pinging the address of the DNS server. If it times out, you have found your problem - you can't reach it. If you can ping it, try pinging something like microsoft.com - if you get an 'Unknwon host" returned rather than an IP address for microsoft, there is a problem at the DNS Server. If it returns a valid ping, then we need to start looking elsewhere. -- Lexacorp Ltd http://www.lexacorp.com.pg Information Technology Consultancy, Software Development,System Support. From KIsmert at TexasSystems.com Tue Mar 16 12:05:40 2004 From: KIsmert at TexasSystems.com (Ken Ismert) Date: Tue, 16 Mar 2004 12:05:40 -0600 Subject: [AccessD] Re: [Private] Framework Discussion - Dependent Objects In-Reply-To: <11927622088.20040316160014@cactus.dk> Message-ID: <018e01c40b81$4b8fab90$2a3ca8c0@TEXASSYSTEMS.COM> My miscellaneous observations: (Colby, Fri 3/12/2004) >I am open to interfaces, assuming that you can present a case for a >significant advantage ... Am I getting early binding out of this so >that Intellisense works? If so can I "get at" all of the class >properties, i.e. not just those implemented? Yes, you will get early binding and Intellisense, if you use interfaces. No, you won't get all of the class properties of the underlying object VIA THE INTERFACE. But you can still get at them. Drawing on Drew's example: Dim rFWC As FrameWorkControl Dim rCbo As Access.ComboBox Set rFWC = New FWComboBox Set rFWC.LinkedObject = cboMyCombo ' do FrameWorkControl things ... If rFWC.ObjectType = "ComboBox" Then Set rCbo = rFWC.LinkedObject ' do Combo things ... Set rCbo = Nothing End If The point is you can use the generic methods of the interface and the specific combobox methods, and still preserve early binding. (Brock, Tue 3/16/2004) > ... Also, and seriously, I find my forms so diverse and often highly >specialized as I can't see a framework fit in and certainly not worth >spending the time to build it ... This is one of the big challenges of frameworks: no matter how suited it is for you, it often won't fit the unique requirements of others. You can never build a framework that is big enough for everybody. However, frameworks can have a payoff in standardization and consistency, provided that the cost to build and implement them are kept to a reasonable level. Which brings us back to the case for interfaces. They are the best way (in VB6) to provide: * Standardization - An interface allows you to define a common set of behaviors for a group of objects. * Extensibility - Interfaces allow you to extend your framework in a consistent, controlled way. This has two benefits: First, helps keep your initial investment lower. Define your interface, build only what you need, and move on. Second, it allows others to more easily extend the framework to fit their own unique requirements. When Microsoft wanted to allow VB programmers a standard way to extend Office, they provided the Office Add-In framework, which implemented the IDTExtensibility2 interface. This is the COM way of allowing extensibility. -Ken From shait at mindspring.com Tue Mar 16 12:19:36 2004 From: shait at mindspring.com (Stephen Hait) Date: Tue, 16 Mar 2004 13:19:36 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] OT - Internet Explorer 6.0 In-Reply-To: <4057CDD4.29689.148E35@localhost> References: <33323297.1079446902283.JavaMail.www@wwinf3005> Message-ID: <4056FEE8.9804.22D0D86A@localhost> > If you can ping it, try pinging something like microsoft.com - if > you get an 'Unknwon host" returned rather than an IP address for > microsoft, there is a problem at the DNS Server. One note: I don't believe Microsoft servers respond to ping commands. Instead you might try ping yahoo.com. Stephen From tortise at paradise.net.nz Tue Mar 16 12:19:28 2004 From: tortise at paradise.net.nz (Tortise) Date: Wed, 17 Mar 2004 07:19:28 +1300 Subject: [AccessD] Memo Locked - Apparently, but not that I can find!!! References: <002d01c3ef36$01999260$1e00a8c0@cheqsoft.local> <1196581313.20040316100933@cactus.dk> Message-ID: <01f201c40b83$38378340$1e00a8c0@cheqsoft.local> Dear Gustav We haven't cracked this one yet, it works most of the time and we've had other priorities. The refresh I referred to was a simple Shift-F9 on the form. That proved to only sometimes work, as did repairing and or compacting only sometimes loosen the lock. Only the memo fields lock. It may be related to running a second A2003 database simultaneously, I am not sure. The best fix when all else fails seems to be shut down both databases and reopen. (!) Lastly the problem seems to only occur when you have a record you want to urgently edit. Actually that may be significant, it never is a new record, it is always an existing memo that is being edited and attempted to save. Our problem occurs running A2003 on a W2003 Server. I am sorry I am not able to be more helpful, at this juncture. Kind regards David Hingston MB ChB MBA Director Chequers Software Ltd Wellington, New Zealand. http://www.cheqsoft.com CheqSoft is associated with the Technology Entrepreneur Centre Crafters of iconic system tray software: => Break Reminder - for safe and efficient PC use => TimesOwn - multi time zone clock and calculator => Clipboard Express - drag n drop database saves serious time => MP3Detective - MP3 player manager => Engines2go - faster Internet searching ____________________________________________________________ The information in this email and in any attachment (s) is confidential and may be legally privileged. If you are not the named addressee's) or if you receive this email in error then any distribution, copying or use of this communication or the information in it is strictly prohibited. Please notify the sender immediately by return email and then delete the message from your computer. Thank you for your assistance. ____________________________________________________________ ----- Original Message ----- From: Gustav Brock To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Sent: Tuesday, March 16, 2004 10:09 PM Subject: Re: [AccessD] Memo Locked - Apparently, but not that I can find!!! Hi David I have a client fighting with this too. Could you be a little more specific on your solution, please? What are you refreshing and when? Which of the advices mentioned in the forum discussion did you implement? As I read it, you update (save) the record at the BeforeUpdate event of the memo field, then Cancel the update and refresh (requery?) the record? /gustav > Thanks John, > That gave me enough to resolve it. > Also Ref http://www.utteraccess.com/forums/access/access605200.html > For anyone else simply doing a refresh unlocks it! > Kind Regards > David > From: John W. Colby > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Sent: Tuesday, February 10, 2004 2:38 AM > Subject: RE: [AccessD] Memo Locked - Apparently, but not that I can find!!! > Memo fields are treated differently than the rest of the fields in a record. > They are simply pointers out to a storage area where the actual memo is > stored. Memos still have the "page locking" issue where if another user is > editing another memo that resides in the same physical page as your memo, > yours will be locked. > John W. Colby > www.ColbyConsulting.com > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Tortise > Sent: Monday, February 09, 2004 5:24 AM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: [AccessD] Memo Locked - Apparently, but not that I can find!!! > Hi > I have a database which intermittently reports memo fields as being locked. > However they are not! Editing the memo field it refuses to update on > attempted save, however text fields still update fine. (!) It is a database > from A2K, that went to A97, back to A2k and now is running (converted) in > A2k3. (Over time!) Repair and compaction makes no difference, neither does > logging off and back on to the windows session. > The same behaviour is exhibited when editing the table as it is from a form. > I'm stumped! > As always any guidance is appreciated. > Kind Regards > David -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com Tue Mar 16 12:34:47 2004 From: jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com (John W. Colby) Date: Tue, 16 Mar 2004 13:34:47 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Framework Discussion - Class performance Message-ID: I have had a lot of people worry, if you will, about loading hundreds of instances of various classes. What does this do in terms of memory? How does Access (VBA) handle the loading of this stuff? If I have a thousand lines of code in a text box class and load 100 text box classes, do I have 100,000 lines of code loads? What about variables? If a class loads, when the second instance loads is it using the same variables? What about static variables in procedures? In order to answer the "performance" issue perhaps it would be useful to talk about how classes do what they do. We are told, and I have no way to test it myself to find out, but we are told, that in a library an entire module loads at once. If you call a function in a library, every function in that module is loaded into memory. There is a lot of discussion about breaking modules down into tightly related functions so that we aren't loading a lot of code that isn't needed because we call only one function. I have already discussed my take on the matter, if I load the whole darned thing, my 5mbytes will be small potatoes to the footprint of my application, Access, Outlook, Word and Windows. But if you truly need something to worry about, you are of course welcomed to break your modules down into tiny little things so that only the exact functions you need get loaded. As for classes, by definition since I am loading a piece of that class, the whole banana is going to load. After that however when the second instance loads no more CODE loads, just like a second instance of any method in a regular module doesn't load over and over. When a function loads, a STACK is created onto which the arguments being passed in are placed. Also placed into that stack are the variables internal to the function, WITH THE EXCEPTION OF static variables. Static variables are placed on the HEAP which is a global area of memory allocated to the application by Windows. Variables declared in the header of ANY MODULE, class or otherwise are placed on the heap. What this means is that, for example, my class has a single Long Integer declared in the class header. As the class loads, ALL OF THE CODE loads, then memory is allocated by Access (VBA Actually) for that Long Integer on the heap. When I load a second instance of the class, I add exactly and ONLY one more Long Integer to the heap. No more code is loaded. Of course this isn't exactly true since in order to load that instance I have to declare a variable somewhere to hold a pointer to the class itself, but the concept remains that only the pointer to the class and the data in the header of the second instance of the class is actually "overhead" of that instance. So if I load a dclsFrm, all the code loads and all of the variables for that form. Load a second form and only the data for that second dclsFrm instance loads. Load 45 dclsCtlCbo instances and all of the code in dclsCtlCbo loads plus any variables in the header, after which 44 "headers" are loaded (the variables for 44 other instances). As you can see, once you load one, the overhead for the next 10 or 1000 is negligible - at least in terms of additional code and heap space. There may or may not be other "overhead" such as recordsets opened and data loaded into collections etc. That is indeed an issue, it is very real overhead, and it can't be discounted. We as class designers need to be aware of how this stuff works, what is and isn't loaded for each instance of any given class, and how that might influence performance. I do a lot of stuff with collections. I load a SysVar class which loads off of disk dozens of SysVars into collections. Yes, that is real overhead for that class, and I can calculate roughly how much memory is used and how long it takes to get the data off the disk and into the collection. Having done that however, it sits there in memory until the application closes. My app runs faster because I used a few thousand bytes of memory to just load the SysVars instead of getting them off the disk every time I want to know the value of the SysVar. I do not intend to make light of the overhead of class programming. If you are attempting to squeeze this stuff into a Win98 box with 32 megs of memory, a framework probably isn't the way to proceed. On the other hand if you are developing an app for a small company with 5 computers, the development time a Framework can save you, and the difference in your bill to the client, just might buy the client all new hardware. Which would the client prefer? New 2ghz machines costing $1,000 apiece or a bill of an additional $5000 for your time? Frameworks can save a LOT of programming effort in many cases. There are those out there who have never tried them, can't really get a handle on how they work, and will just dismiss them as "can't possibly help me". There are others who have already built their own and know what I am talking about. And yes, there may be one or two who truly don't do things that a framework would be useful for. I can't say I've ever met anyone ... ;-) John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com From jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com Tue Mar 16 12:44:23 2004 From: jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com (John W. Colby) Date: Tue, 16 Mar 2004 13:44:23 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Re: [Private] Framework Discussion - Dependent Objects In-Reply-To: <018e01c40b81$4b8fab90$2a3ca8c0@TEXASSYSTEMS.COM> Message-ID: Ken, >Yes, you will get early binding and Intellisense, if you use interfaces. No, you won't get all of the class properties of the underlying object VIA THE INTERFACE. I was afraid of that. I assume that "all of the advantages of early binding" means speed. Intellisense only deals with parent properties and (in my specific case) my individual "sub classes" if you will have MANY more methods that I can't Intellisense. I have a specific set of Framework Class Interface variables and methods and yes, it would be nice to have that predefined and just "inherited" (or implemented) but in the end that is like implementing 1/4th of my head when I need my whole body. Again, I can see other places where it might very well be a major portion of the whole and very useful. Would you work with me offline to define this framework interface class and show me how to Implement that in all of my framework classes? When it comes to defining interfaces I will take all the help I can get. John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Ken Ismert Sent: Tuesday, March 16, 2004 1:06 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: [AccessD] Re: [Private] Framework Discussion - Dependent Objects My miscellaneous observations: (Colby, Fri 3/12/2004) >I am open to interfaces, assuming that you can present a case for a >significant advantage ... Am I getting early binding out of this so >that Intellisense works? If so can I "get at" all of the class >properties, i.e. not just those implemented? Yes, you will get early binding and Intellisense, if you use interfaces. No, you won't get all of the class properties of the underlying object VIA THE INTERFACE. But you can still get at them. Drawing on Drew's example: Dim rFWC As FrameWorkControl Dim rCbo As Access.ComboBox Set rFWC = New FWComboBox Set rFWC.LinkedObject = cboMyCombo ' do FrameWorkControl things ... If rFWC.ObjectType = "ComboBox" Then Set rCbo = rFWC.LinkedObject ' do Combo things ... Set rCbo = Nothing End If The point is you can use the generic methods of the interface and the specific combobox methods, and still preserve early binding. (Brock, Tue 3/16/2004) > ... Also, and seriously, I find my forms so diverse and often highly >specialized as I can't see a framework fit in and certainly not worth >spending the time to build it ... This is one of the big challenges of frameworks: no matter how suited it is for you, it often won't fit the unique requirements of others. You can never build a framework that is big enough for everybody. However, frameworks can have a payoff in standardization and consistency, provided that the cost to build and implement them are kept to a reasonable level. Which brings us back to the case for interfaces. They are the best way (in VB6) to provide: * Standardization - An interface allows you to define a common set of behaviors for a group of objects. * Extensibility - Interfaces allow you to extend your framework in a consistent, controlled way. This has two benefits: First, helps keep your initial investment lower. Define your interface, build only what you need, and move on. Second, it allows others to more easily extend the framework to fit their own unique requirements. When Microsoft wanted to allow VB programmers a standard way to extend Office, they provided the Office Add-In framework, which implemented the IDTExtensibility2 interface. This is the COM way of allowing extensibility. -Ken -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From gustav at cactus.dk Tue Mar 16 12:43:08 2004 From: gustav at cactus.dk (Gustav Brock) Date: Tue, 16 Mar 2004 19:43:08 +0100 Subject: [AccessD] Memo Locked - Apparently, but not that I can find!!! In-Reply-To: <01f201c40b83$38378340$1e00a8c0@cheqsoft.local> References: <002d01c3ef36$01999260$1e00a8c0@cheqsoft.local> <1196581313.20040316100933@cactus.dk> <01f201c40b83$38378340$1e00a8c0@cheqsoft.local> Message-ID: <6140995608.20040316194308@cactus.dk> Hi David Thanks! Of course I hoped you had solved it but any info is useful. My client is running A97 but I'm not sure that makes much of a difference regarding this. Tell me please, are you running the frontends as separate copies on the workstations or are you sharing one copy on the server? I ask because I've done the strange observation that when running a shared copy the locking issue seems rare ... it doesn't make sense, I'll have to test further here. /gustav > Dear Gustav > We haven't cracked this one yet, it works most of the time and we've had other priorities. > The refresh I referred to was a simple Shift-F9 on the form. That proved to only sometimes work, as did repairing and or compacting only sometimes loosen the lock. Only the memo fields lock. > It may be related to running a second A2003 database simultaneously, I am not sure. > The best fix when all else fails seems to be shut down both databases and reopen. (!) > Lastly the problem seems to only occur when you have a record you want to urgently edit. Actually that may be significant, it never is a new record, it is always an existing memo that is being > edited and attempted to save. > Our problem occurs running A2003 on a W2003 Server. > I am sorry I am not able to be more helpful, at this juncture. > Kind regards > David Hingston MB ChB MBA > Director > Chequers Software Ltd > Wellington, New Zealand. > http://www.cheqsoft.com > CheqSoft is associated with the Technology Entrepreneur Centre > Hi David > I have a client fighting with this too. > Could you be a little more specific on your solution, please? > What are you refreshing and when? > Which of the advices mentioned in the forum discussion did you > implement? > As I read it, you update (save) the record at the BeforeUpdate event > of the memo field, then Cancel the update and refresh (requery?) the > record? > /gustav > > Thanks John, > > That gave me enough to resolve it. > > Also Ref http://www.utteraccess.com/forums/access/access605200.html > > For anyone else simply doing a refresh unlocks it! > > Kind Regards > > David > > From: John W. Colby > > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > > Sent: Tuesday, February 10, 2004 2:38 AM > > Subject: RE: [AccessD] Memo Locked - Apparently, but not that I can find!!! > > Memo fields are treated differently than the rest of the fields in a record. > > They are simply pointers out to a storage area where the actual memo is > > stored. Memos still have the "page locking" issue where if another user is > > editing another memo that resides in the same physical page as your memo, > > yours will be locked. > > John W. Colby > > www.ColbyConsulting.com > > -----Original Message----- > > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Tortise > > Sent: Monday, February 09, 2004 5:24 AM > > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > > Subject: [AccessD] Memo Locked - Apparently, but not that I can find!!! > > Hi > > I have a database which intermittently reports memo fields as being locked. > > However they are not! Editing the memo field it refuses to update on > > attempted save, however text fields still update fine. (!) It is a database > > from A2K, that went to A97, back to A2k and now is running (converted) in > > A2k3. (Over time!) Repair and compaction makes no difference, neither does > > logging off and back on to the windows session. > > The same behaviour is exhibited when editing the table as it is from a form. > > I'm stumped! > > As always any guidance is appreciated. > > Kind Regards > > David From KIsmert at TexasSystems.com Tue Mar 16 12:57:35 2004 From: KIsmert at TexasSystems.com (Ken Ismert) Date: Tue, 16 Mar 2004 12:57:35 -0600 Subject: [AccessD] Framework Discussion - Implements In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <018f01c40b88$8baf8450$2a3ca8c0@TEXASSYSTEMS.COM> Ryan, Implements means that a class exposes an interface defined by another class. An interface is simply the method signature of a class, that is, the names and parameter lists of all its public properties and methods. The implementer is responsible for two things: it must implement the entire interface, and it must provide all the functionality and code required to support the interface. Inheritance means that a class not only gets the interface of another class, but its code and functionality as well. The inheritor is relieved from having to implement the inherited interface, or to provide redundant functionality. Think of it as compiler-level wrapping. The inheritor can override certain methods and properties of the inherited class with its own, and it can add new methods and properties to extend the inherited class. Inheritance is more powerful than Implements. Implements is supported in VB6, A2K and later, while Inheritance is not. VB6/A2K supports polymorphism through interfaces. A class can implement more than one interface, and so appear as different object types to different users. -Ken PS. Regarding John's quote: >In other words, you define a class with PUBLIC variables (generally >considered a no-no) and a bunch of method and property STUBS. Once you have >done that you create other classes that "implements" the parent class. It >appears that the parent class' public variables magically become private in >the class that implements the parent object ... To clarify, Public variables are simply a way of defining properties in a class. Thus, these two classes are identical: [Class1] Public Value As Long [Class2] Private mlValue As Long Property Let Value(ValueIn As Long) mlValue = ValueIn End Property Property Get Value() As Long Value = mlValue End Property Public variables, while quick, give you less flexibility, because they are inherently read/write. The point is, if you use Implements Class1 in another class, you will only get the property signature: Property Let Class1_Value(ByVal RHS As Long) End Property Property Get Class1_Value() As Long End Property So, it is rather pointless to use public variables in your interface definitions. Stick with stub properties and methods. -----Original Message----- From: rsmethurst at UK.EY.COM [mailto:rsmethurst at UK.EY.COM] Sent: Tuesday, March 16, 2004 10:06 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] Framework Discussion - Implements Hi All, In light of all the mails about classes, frameworks and implementation etc. (most of which I am finding very interesting). Could someone explain to me the difference between the 'Implements' statement and how this is differs from inheritance. Thanks Ryan From tortise at paradise.net.nz Tue Mar 16 12:58:32 2004 From: tortise at paradise.net.nz (Tortise) Date: Wed, 17 Mar 2004 07:58:32 +1300 Subject: [AccessD] Memo Locked - Apparently, but not that I can find!!! References: <002d01c3ef36$01999260$1e00a8c0@cheqsoft.local> <1196581313.20040316100933@cactus.dk> <01f201c40b83$38378340$1e00a8c0@cheqsoft.local> <6140995608.20040316194308@cactus.dk> Message-ID: <022601c40b88$adb1b960$1e00a8c0@cheqsoft.local> Gustav.... I would dearly love to report we had cracked it too. Mmmmm Interesting. Your client may have a different issue. Our database worked seamlessly in both A97 and A2K. This problem only surfaced when we migrated into A2003. I've only seen it happen on the server, being used as a workstation also. (!) (It has the reserves!) We can run it as one shared copy from the server but I've not seen the problem in this way, as this database is mainly run on the server, so I've not been able to "make observations" on another PC. This database almost never runs more than one copy at a time also, so concurrent locking shouldn't be an issue!. As I said we do run concurrent A2003 databases, that are supposedly independent and distinct, (i.e. separate *.mdb file) however I am becoming interested whether this is true in A2003. Are they running more than one database on the same server? Kind regards David Hingston MB ChB MBA Director Chequers Software Ltd Wellington, New Zealand. http://www.cheqsoft.com CheqSoft is associated with the Technology Entrepreneur Centre Crafters of iconic system tray software: => Break Reminder - for safe and efficient PC use => TimesOwn - multi time zone clock and calculator => Clipboard Express - drag n drop database saves serious time => MP3Detective - MP3 player manager => Engines2go - faster Internet searching ____________________________________________________________ The information in this email and in any attachment (s) is confidential and may be legally privileged. If you are not the named addressee's) or if you receive this email in error then any distribution, copying or use of this communication or the information in it is strictly prohibited. Please notify the sender immediately by return email and then delete the message from your computer. Thank you for your assistance. ____________________________________________________________ ----- Original Message ----- From: Gustav Brock To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Sent: Wednesday, March 17, 2004 7:43 AM Subject: Re: [AccessD] Memo Locked - Apparently, but not that I can find!!! Hi David Thanks! Of course I hoped you had solved it but any info is useful. My client is running A97 but I'm not sure that makes much of a difference regarding this. Tell me please, are you running the frontends as separate copies on the workstations or are you sharing one copy on the server? I ask because I've done the strange observation that when running a shared copy the locking issue seems rare ... it doesn't make sense, I'll have to test further here. /gustav > Dear Gustav > We haven't cracked this one yet, it works most of the time and we've had other priorities. > The refresh I referred to was a simple Shift-F9 on the form. That proved to only sometimes work, as did repairing and or compacting only sometimes loosen the lock. Only the memo fields lock. > It may be related to running a second A2003 database simultaneously, I am not sure. > The best fix when all else fails seems to be shut down both databases and reopen. (!) > Lastly the problem seems to only occur when you have a record you want to urgently edit. Actually that may be significant, it never is a new record, it is always an existing memo that is being > edited and attempted to save. > Our problem occurs running A2003 on a W2003 Server. > I am sorry I am not able to be more helpful, at this juncture. > Kind regards > David Hingston MB ChB MBA > Director > Chequers Software Ltd > Wellington, New Zealand. > http://www.cheqsoft.com > CheqSoft is associated with the Technology Entrepreneur Centre > Hi David > I have a client fighting with this too. > Could you be a little more specific on your solution, please? > What are you refreshing and when? > Which of the advices mentioned in the forum discussion did you > implement? > As I read it, you update (save) the record at the BeforeUpdate event > of the memo field, then Cancel the update and refresh (requery?) the > record? > /gustav > > Thanks John, > > That gave me enough to resolve it. > > Also Ref http://www.utteraccess.com/forums/access/access605200.html > > For anyone else simply doing a refresh unlocks it! > > Kind Regards > > David > > From: John W. Colby > > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > > Sent: Tuesday, February 10, 2004 2:38 AM > > Subject: RE: [AccessD] Memo Locked - Apparently, but not that I can find!!! > > Memo fields are treated differently than the rest of the fields in a record. > > They are simply pointers out to a storage area where the actual memo is > > stored. Memos still have the "page locking" issue where if another user is > > editing another memo that resides in the same physical page as your memo, > > yours will be locked. > > John W. Colby > > www.ColbyConsulting.com > > -----Original Message----- > > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Tortise > > Sent: Monday, February 09, 2004 5:24 AM > > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > > Subject: [AccessD] Memo Locked - Apparently, but not that I can find!!! > > Hi > > I have a database which intermittently reports memo fields as being locked. > > However they are not! Editing the memo field it refuses to update on > > attempted save, however text fields still update fine. (!) It is a database > > from A2K, that went to A97, back to A2k and now is running (converted) in > > A2k3. (Over time!) Repair and compaction makes no difference, neither does > > logging off and back on to the windows session. > > The same behaviour is exhibited when editing the table as it is from a form. > > I'm stumped! > > As always any guidance is appreciated. > > Kind Regards > > David -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From tewald at comcast.net Tue Mar 16 13:32:30 2004 From: tewald at comcast.net (tewald at comcast.net) Date: Tue, 16 Mar 2004 19:32:30 +0000 Subject: [AccessD] Re: Access 2003 Developer Edition? Message-ID: <031620041932.6891.fcf@comcast.net> Date: Tue, 16 Mar 2004 07:33:57 -0600 Does this mean that you can't create runtime programs if you don't know .NET? Guess I need to hold onto my 2000 Developer's Edition. Tom Ewald From: "Robert L. Stewart" Subject: [AccessD] Re: Access 2003 Developer Edition? To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Cc: michael.broesdorf at web.de Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20040316073249.029f1820 at pop3.highstream.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed Michael, It is called Access 2003 Developer Extensions now. This is because of the hook into .NET Robert From reuben at gfconsultants.com Tue Mar 16 13:31:18 2004 From: reuben at gfconsultants.com (Reuben Cummings) Date: Tue, 16 Mar 2004 14:31:18 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Hyperlinks for the BEU In-Reply-To: <4056B405.28203.10F9D3@localhost> Message-ID: Thanks, Stuart. You were correct. Hopefully that's all we'll need. Reuben Cummings GFC, LLC phone: 812.523.1017 email: reuben at gfconsultants.com > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Stuart > McLachlan > Sent: Monday, March 15, 2004 5:00 PM > To: Access Developers discussion and problemsolving > Subject: Re: [AccessD] Hyperlinks for the BEU > > > On 15 Mar 2004 at 16:31, Reuben Cummings wrote: > > > Anyone know what makes a hyperlink different than a memo? > > > > What I mean is this: the value for a hyperlink and a memo is > 12 (that's 12 > > for both). However, the attributes are different. > > > > What I'm after is the differences that define one as a hyperlink and the > > other as a memo. > > > > Working on a new data type for the BEU and could use your help. > > > AFAIK, they're just ordinary memo fields with an attribute set > DAO.FieldAttributeEnum = dbHyperlinkField (&H8000) > > > > > > -- > Lexacorp Ltd > http://www.lexacorp.com.pg > Information Technology Consultancy, Software Development,System > Support. > > > > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > From gustav at cactus.dk Tue Mar 16 13:38:43 2004 From: gustav at cactus.dk (Gustav Brock) Date: Tue, 16 Mar 2004 20:38:43 +0100 Subject: [AccessD] Memo Locked - Apparently, but not that I can find!!! In-Reply-To: <022601c40b88$adb1b960$1e00a8c0@cheqsoft.local> References: <002d01c3ef36$01999260$1e00a8c0@cheqsoft.local> <1196581313.20040316100933@cactus.dk> <01f201c40b83$38378340$1e00a8c0@cheqsoft.local> <6140995608.20040316194308@cactus.dk> <022601c40b88$adb1b960$1e00a8c0@cheqsoft.local> Message-ID: <14244330443.20040316203843@cactus.dk> Hi David I see - it may be a different issue than yours. Yes, they are sharing two backend files on the server but locking only occurs in one of the files. They don't run any Access apps on the server. /gustav > Gustav.... > I would dearly love to report we had cracked it too. > Mmmmm Interesting. > Your client may have a different issue. Our database worked seamlessly in both A97 and A2K. This problem only surfaced when we migrated into A2003. > I've only seen it happen on the server, being used as a workstation also. (!) (It has the reserves!) We can run it as one shared copy from the server but I've not seen the problem in this way, as > this database is mainly run on the server, so I've not been able to "make observations" on another PC. This database almost never runs more than one copy at a time also, so concurrent locking > shouldn't be an issue!. As I said we do run concurrent A2003 databases, that are supposedly independent and distinct, (i.e. separate *.mdb file) however I am becoming interested whether this is > true in A2003. > Are they running more than one database on the same server? > Kind regards > David Hingston MB ChB MBA > Director > Chequers Software Ltd > Wellington, New Zealand. > http://www.cheqsoft.com > CheqSoft is associated with the Technology Entrepreneur Centre > Thanks! Of course I hoped you had solved it but any info is useful. > My client is running A97 but I'm not sure that makes much of a > difference regarding this. > Tell me please, are you running the frontends as separate copies on the > workstations or are you sharing one copy on the server? I ask because > I've done the strange observation that when running a shared copy the > locking issue seems rare ... it doesn't make sense, I'll have to test > further here. > /gustav > > Dear Gustav > > We haven't cracked this one yet, it works most of the time and we've had other priorities. > > The refresh I referred to was a simple Shift-F9 on the form. That proved to only sometimes work, as did repairing and or compacting only sometimes loosen the lock. Only the memo fields lock. > > It may be related to running a second A2003 database simultaneously, I am not sure. > > The best fix when all else fails seems to be shut down both databases and reopen. (!) > > Lastly the problem seems to only occur when you have a record you want to urgently edit. Actually that may be significant, it never is a new record, it is always an existing memo that is being > > edited and attempted to save. > > Our problem occurs running A2003 on a W2003 Server. > > I am sorry I am not able to be more helpful, at this juncture. > > Kind regards > > David Hingston MB ChB MBA > > Director > > Chequers Software Ltd > > Wellington, New Zealand. > > http://www.cheqsoft.com > > CheqSoft is associated with the Technology Entrepreneur Centre > > Hi David > > I have a client fighting with this too. > > Could you be a little more specific on your solution, please? > > What are you refreshing and when? > > Which of the advices mentioned in the forum discussion did you > > implement? > > As I read it, you update (save) the record at the BeforeUpdate event > > of the memo field, then Cancel the update and refresh (requery?) the > > record? > > /gustav > > > Thanks John, > > > That gave me enough to resolve it. > > > Also Ref http://www.utteraccess.com/forums/access/access605200.html > > > For anyone else simply doing a refresh unlocks it! > > > Kind Regards > > > David > > > From: John W. Colby > > > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > > > Sent: Tuesday, February 10, 2004 2:38 AM > > > Subject: RE: [AccessD] Memo Locked - Apparently, but not that I can find!!! > > > Memo fields are treated differently than the rest of the fields in a record. > > > They are simply pointers out to a storage area where the actual memo is > > > stored. Memos still have the "page locking" issue where if another user is > > > editing another memo that resides in the same physical page as your memo, > > > yours will be locked. > > > John W. Colby > > > www.ColbyConsulting.com > > > -----Original Message----- > > > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > > > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Tortise > > > Sent: Monday, February 09, 2004 5:24 AM > > > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > > > Subject: [AccessD] Memo Locked - Apparently, but not that I can find!!! > > > Hi > > > I have a database which intermittently reports memo fields as being locked. > > > However they are not! Editing the memo field it refuses to update on > > > attempted save, however text fields still update fine. (!) It is a database > > > from A2K, that went to A97, back to A2k and now is running (converted) in > > > A2k3. (Over time!) Repair and compaction makes no difference, neither does > > > logging off and back on to the windows session. > > > The same behaviour is exhibited when editing the table as it is from a form. > > > I'm stumped! > > > As always any guidance is appreciated. > > > Kind Regards > > > David From artful at rogers.com Tue Mar 16 16:47:18 2004 From: artful at rogers.com (Arthur Fuller) Date: Tue, 16 Mar 2004 14:47:18 -0800 Subject: [AccessD] Short Date Input Mask question In-Reply-To: <20040316064213.26974.qmail@web61107.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <000001c40ba8$a486de90$6501a8c0@rock> The standard short date input mask (99/99/0000;0;_) has a shortcoming that I hate: you have to type 04/04/04 to get April 4th 2004. The year handling is nice but the month and day suck. The mask won't let you type 4/4/04. Is there an alternative mask that will respond intelligently to such input? Or should I instead just remove all the input masks from all the date fields? TIA, Arthur From DWUTKA at marlow.com Tue Mar 16 13:59:28 2004 From: DWUTKA at marlow.com (DWUTKA at marlow.com) Date: Tue, 16 Mar 2004 13:59:28 -0600 Subject: [AccessD] Set up tables - Please Help Message-ID: <2F8793082E00D4119A1700B0D0216BF80222797E@main2.marlow.com> I think I really need to take a look at what you are trying to do. Can you send it to me offlist? I won't have a chance to look at it until later this week, or on the weekend. Drew -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Hollis,Virginia Sent: Tuesday, March 16, 2004 6:28 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: [AccessD] Set up tables - Please Help This is all taken from a hard copy of the current request form. The buyer completes the vendor request form with the vendor information. The form is used to add the new vendor information into a main database. The form provides the vendors name, billing information, type of business, etc. It does not list any items the company will buy from this vendor. Once the vendor information is added, then the company will issue POs, contracts to the new vendor (not part of this database). They just want to track the requests from the buyers. The form contains a lot of information about the vendor. When I create all the tables and join them to create a form for entering the information, it either comes up blank (no records) or I can't add any new records, one try it kept knocking my query out - I think because it was too long. Virginia -----Original Message----- From: DWUTKA at marlow.com [mailto:DWUTKA at marlow.com] Sent: Monday, March 15, 2004 3:45 PM To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: RE: [AccessD] Set up tables - Please Help Virginia, I think you are confusing Vendor with Purchase Order. A Vendor is just a peice of a Purchase Order, not the other way around. Drew -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Hollis,Virginia Sent: Saturday, March 13, 2004 10:46 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: [AccessD] Set up tables - Please Help tbl_Vendor contains all the data for the vendor; address, company name, etc. tbl_VendorMain could really be named tbl_RequestMain. tbl_VendorMain is where I thought I would store the combination of the data - VendorID, ContactID, BuyerID, RequestorID, DateRequested. -----Original Message----- From: Susan Harkins [mailto:ssharkins at bellsouth.net] Sent: Saturday, March 13, 2004 10:38 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: [AccessD] Set up tables - Please Help What's the difference between tbl_Vendor and tbl_VendorMain? Susan H. I have one table for each - tbl_Buyer, tbl_Contacts, tbl_Requestor, tbl_TypeBusiness, tbl_Vendor, tbl_VendorMain, tbl_Accounts. Tables buyer, vendor contacts, requestor store just the typical name, phone number, etc. -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From DWUTKA at marlow.com Tue Mar 16 14:00:05 2004 From: DWUTKA at marlow.com (DWUTKA at marlow.com) Date: Tue, 16 Mar 2004 14:00:05 -0600 Subject: [AccessD] Terminal Server and Access XP Message-ID: <2F8793082E00D4119A1700B0D0216BF80222797F@main2.marlow.com> If it works logged in as an Admin, then it's a permissions issue. Are the logged in users 'power users'? Drew -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Lonnie Johnson Sent: Tuesday, March 16, 2004 7:04 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] Terminal Server and Access XP Nope. I was kinda hoping there was. It works if we log onto the terminal server as administrator, but not as a regular user. Would this be at the registry level? DWUTKA at marlow.com wrote:Any missing references? Drew -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Lonnie Johnson Sent: Monday, March 15, 2004 3:56 PM To: 'MS-ACCESS-L at lists.missouri.edu'; AccessDevelopers; ms_access; AccessD solving' Subject: [AccessD] Terminal Server and Access XP Users are getting a "Run-Time error 13, type mis match" when the application tries to cycle through some controls with the following: Dim ctl as Control For Each ctl in Me.Controls... This works fine in A97 and XP on regular machines. It even works for the administrator on a terminal server machine, but not regular users on terminal server. Anyone have a clue????????? Lonnie Johnson ProDev, Professional Development of MS Access Databases Visit me at ==> http://www.prodev.us Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Mail - More reliable, more storage, less spam -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com Lonnie Johnson ProDev, Professional Development of MS Access Databases Visit me at ==> http://www.prodev.us Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Mail - More reliable, more storage, less spam -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From DWUTKA at marlow.com Tue Mar 16 14:03:20 2004 From: DWUTKA at marlow.com (DWUTKA at marlow.com) Date: Tue, 16 Mar 2004 14:03:20 -0600 Subject: [AccessD] Framework Discussion - Dependent Objects Message-ID: <2F8793082E00D4119A1700B0D0216BF802227980@main2.marlow.com> I see what both of you are saying on the issue. Let's not turn this into another bound/unbound discussion. It is all dependant on what type of projects you work on. If you find that you are building the same functionality into multiple projects, then a framework concept works great, because you are saving development time by doing it once. However, if you find that you are creating completely different projects, all of the time, then a framework doesn't help that much. Drew -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Jim Dettman Sent: Tuesday, March 16, 2004 8:07 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] Framework Discussion - Dependent Objects John, I'm not sure what you think I mean by "overloading", but what I'm saying is that you have a choice: You either build numerous classes to handle specific behavior or you overload a single class with more properties and methods to make it handle more then one type of behavior. <> And this was exactly my point. Your choice was either to create a new class in the Framework to handle a text control with a popup calendar or add properties and methods to a single class so it can do both jobs. <> I'm not telling you do to anything. I was trying to add to the discussion, pointing out that performance is based on design decisions that are made in the framework. You are taking an OOP approach and the same fundamentals apply no matter which language your dealing with. I don't understand why your taking this so personally. I never said that what you were doing was not worth it. I was discussing frameworks in general. This has nothing to do with me leaving Access for VFP, which I have not (I still use both tools on a regular basis). I would love to see someone do a commercial framework for Access. But after 10 years of existence, one has to ask themselves why there are not a truck load of them already. You asked for input about the design of frameworks and I've brought up a few issues (performance and distribution of new versions). If you don't want to address them and explore these areas then fine. But if that's the case, then don't ask for the input in the first place. Jim (315) 699-3443 jimdettman at earthlink.net -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of John W. Colby Sent: Monday, March 15, 2004 9:34 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] Framework Discussion - Dependent Objects Jim, > So you'll end up with lots of classes, unless I misunderstanding your intent. For example let's start with a base text box class. In a typical app, you can have text boxes that can be used for: 1. Text input 2. Input of a short date 3. Input of a short date and time. #2 and #3 are variations of #1 and contain some of the same behaviors and methods. So at the frame work level, I'm going to provide three classes or I'm going to do one class (text box) and overload it with properties to accomplish #2 and #3. But what your not doing is starting with #1, then creating #2 and #3 based on #1. Lets back up a minute and discuss this from a logical perspective. <> -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From michael.broesdorf at web.de Tue Mar 16 14:05:43 2004 From: michael.broesdorf at web.de (=?iso-8859-1?Q?Michael_Br=F6sdorf?=) Date: Tue, 16 Mar 2004 21:05:43 +0100 Subject: AW: [AccessD] Re: Access 2003 Developer Edition? In-Reply-To: <031620041932.6891.fcf@comcast.net> Message-ID: I was thinking that too! How about Access 2002? Michael -----Urspr?ngliche Nachricht----- Von: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]Im Auftrag von tewald at comcast.net Gesendet: Dienstag, 16. M?rz 2004 20:33 An: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Betreff: [AccessD] Re: Access 2003 Developer Edition? Date: Tue, 16 Mar 2004 07:33:57 -0600 Does this mean that you can't create runtime programs if you don't know .NET? Guess I need to hold onto my 2000 Developer's Edition. Tom Ewald From: "Robert L. Stewart" Subject: [AccessD] Re: Access 2003 Developer Edition? To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Cc: michael.broesdorf at web.de Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20040316073249.029f1820 at pop3.highstream.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed Michael, It is called Access 2003 Developer Extensions now. This is because of the hook into .NET Robert -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From DWUTKA at marlow.com Tue Mar 16 14:09:50 2004 From: DWUTKA at marlow.com (DWUTKA at marlow.com) Date: Tue, 16 Mar 2004 14:09:50 -0600 Subject: [AccessD] Re: [Private] Framework Discussion - Dependent Obje cts Message-ID: <2F8793082E00D4119A1700B0D0216BF802227981@main2.marlow.com> 'The days of Drew and JC'? LOL I'm in the same situation as you. I find that building a 'framework' isn't worth the effort, because I have to develop very diverse GUI's. It's not a matter of re-using features, it's a matter of building specific features to handle the task at hand. At my full time job, however, I have found that one of the best practices I can stick too, is to develop applications as 'stand-alone' objects, yet leave room for interaction. So if I develop a library application for our Drafting department, and later I develop a modeling package for the engineers, if I need access to the drafting library, I can just 'reference' the drafting department's .dll's. Makes life a lot easier. To me, that's what I call a framework. It's not a generic thing from a functionality standpoint, but more of a generic thing from a usability standpoint. Make sense? Drew -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Gustav Brock Sent: Tuesday, March 16, 2004 9:00 AM To: Jim Dettman Cc: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: [AccessD] Re: [Private] Framework Discussion - Dependent Objects Hi Jim Ha ha, hit by the Colby flames! Welcome to the club! I read it too and wondered - but I guess that's the way he is and that it doesn't mean so much. Remember the days of Drew and JC? Eventually they cooled down. And internationalization? He just loves his framework as a child, so I've chosen to keep my mouth shut. Also, and seriously, I find my forms so diverse and often highly specialized as I can't see a framework fit in and certainly not worth spending the time to build it. If inheritance was possible, I might reconsider, but I guess that won't ever happen. /gustav > I'm not telling you do to anything. I was trying to add to the > discussion, pointing out that performance is based on design decisions that > are made in the framework. You are taking an OOP approach and the same > fundamentals apply no matter which language your dealing with. > I don't understand why your taking this so personally. I never said that > what you were doing was not worth it. I was discussing frameworks in > general. This has nothing to do with me leaving Access for VFP, which I > have not (I still use both tools on a regular basis). I would love to see > someone do a commercial framework for Access. But after 10 years of > existence, one has to ask themselves why there are not a truck load of them > already. > You asked for input about the design of frameworks and I've brought up a > few issues (performance and distribution of new versions). If you don't > want to address them and explore these areas then fine. But if that's the > case, then don't ask for the input in the first place. -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From Bryan_Carbonnell at cbc.ca Tue Mar 16 14:15:53 2004 From: Bryan_Carbonnell at cbc.ca (Bryan Carbonnell) Date: Tue, 16 Mar 2004 15:15:53 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Short Date Input Mask question Message-ID: My vote would be to get rid of the input mask al together and use the Format Property to display it how you want. I Have done that with what I'm dealing with now. No input masks, just Formats on all the Date fields. That way the date can be entered just about however the user wants to enter it d-m-yy, d/m/yy, yy-mmm-d, yyyy-mmm-dd, m/d/yyyy, mm-dd-yy............. And Access formats it into yyyy-mmm-dd for my forms. Makes like so much easier when you are dealing with a 30 hour day!! Yep a broadcast day is 30 hours long Midnight to 0600 the following morning, or sign on, which ever comes first. Bryan Carbonnell bryan_carbonnell at cbc.ca >>> artful at rogers.com 16-Mar-04 5:47:18 PM >>> The standard short date input mask (99/99/0000;0;_) has a shortcoming that I hate: you have to type 04/04/04 to get April 4th 2004. The year handling is nice but the month and day suck. The mask won't let you type 4/4/04. Is there an alternative mask that will respond intelligently to such input? Or should I instead just remove all the input masks from all the date fields? From cfoust at infostatsystems.com Tue Mar 16 14:35:17 2004 From: cfoust at infostatsystems.com (Charlotte Foust) Date: Tue, 16 Mar 2004 12:35:17 -0800 Subject: [AccessD] Re: Access 2003 Developer Edition? Message-ID: You need the XP developer's edition to create runtime packages for Access 2002. Access 2003 still uses VBA rather than .Net, so don't worry about that, especially since there aren't a lot of new features in Access 2003. Charlotte Foust -----Original Message----- From: Michael Br?sdorf [mailto:michael.broesdorf at web.de] Sent: Tuesday, March 16, 2004 12:06 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: AW: [AccessD] Re: Access 2003 Developer Edition? I was thinking that too! How about Access 2002? Michael -----Urspr?ngliche Nachricht----- Von: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]Im Auftrag von tewald at comcast.net Gesendet: Dienstag, 16. M?rz 2004 20:33 An: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Betreff: [AccessD] Re: Access 2003 Developer Edition? Date: Tue, 16 Mar 2004 07:33:57 -0600 Does this mean that you can't create runtime programs if you don't know .NET? Guess I need to hold onto my 2000 Developer's Edition. Tom Ewald From: "Robert L. Stewart" Subject: [AccessD] Re: Access 2003 Developer Edition? To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Cc: michael.broesdorf at web.de Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20040316073249.029f1820 at pop3.highstream.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed Michael, It is called Access 2003 Developer Extensions now. This is because of the hook into .NET Robert -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com Tue Mar 16 14:40:48 2004 From: jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com (John W. Colby) Date: Tue, 16 Mar 2004 15:40:48 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Short Date Input Mask question In-Reply-To: Message-ID: A great case for a framework. Define the various formats you use in your text boxes and then tell the framework to figure out that it's a date and apply a format. John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Bryan Carbonnell Sent: Tuesday, March 16, 2004 3:16 PM To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: Re: [AccessD] Short Date Input Mask question My vote would be to get rid of the input mask al together and use the Format Property to display it how you want. I Have done that with what I'm dealing with now. No input masks, just Formats on all the Date fields. That way the date can be entered just about however the user wants to enter it d-m-yy, d/m/yy, yy-mmm-d, yyyy-mmm-dd, m/d/yyyy, mm-dd-yy............. And Access formats it into yyyy-mmm-dd for my forms. Makes like so much easier when you are dealing with a 30 hour day!! Yep a broadcast day is 30 hours long Midnight to 0600 the following morning, or sign on, which ever comes first. Bryan Carbonnell bryan_carbonnell at cbc.ca >>> artful at rogers.com 16-Mar-04 5:47:18 PM >>> The standard short date input mask (99/99/0000;0;_) has a shortcoming that I hate: you have to type 04/04/04 to get April 4th 2004. The year handling is nice but the month and day suck. The mask won't let you type 4/4/04. Is there an alternative mask that will respond intelligently to such input? Or should I instead just remove all the input masks from all the date fields? -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From prodevmg at yahoo.com Tue Mar 16 14:56:40 2004 From: prodevmg at yahoo.com (Lonnie Johnson) Date: Tue, 16 Mar 2004 12:56:40 -0800 (PST) Subject: [AccessD] Terminal Server and Access XP In-Reply-To: <2F8793082E00D4119A1700B0D0216BF80222797F@main2.marlow.com> Message-ID: <20040316205640.67999.qmail@web20422.mail.yahoo.com> No, fairly novice. The admin actually has the terminal servers' desktop hidden and they come straight into a web page that gives them their windows and web application options. DWUTKA at marlow.com wrote:If it works logged in as an Admin, then it's a permissions issue. Are the logged in users 'power users'? Drew -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Lonnie Johnson Sent: Tuesday, March 16, 2004 7:04 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] Terminal Server and Access XP Nope. I was kinda hoping there was. It works if we log onto the terminal server as administrator, but not as a regular user. Would this be at the registry level? DWUTKA at marlow.com wrote:Any missing references? Drew -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Lonnie Johnson Sent: Monday, March 15, 2004 3:56 PM To: 'MS-ACCESS-L at lists.missouri.edu'; AccessDevelopers; ms_access; AccessD solving' Subject: [AccessD] Terminal Server and Access XP Users are getting a "Run-Time error 13, type mis match" when the application tries to cycle through some controls with the following: Dim ctl as Control For Each ctl in Me.Controls... This works fine in A97 and XP on regular machines. It even works for the administrator on a terminal server machine, but not regular users on terminal server. Anyone have a clue????????? Lonnie Johnson ProDev, Professional Development of MS Access Databases Visit me at ==> http://www.prodev.us Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Mail - More reliable, more storage, less spam -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com Lonnie Johnson ProDev, Professional Development of MS Access Databases Visit me at ==> http://www.prodev.us Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Mail - More reliable, more storage, less spam -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com Lonnie Johnson ProDev, Professional Development of MS Access Databases Visit me at ==> http://www.prodev.us Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Mail - More reliable, more storage, less spam From jarus at amerinet-gpo.com Tue Mar 16 15:35:37 2004 From: jarus at amerinet-gpo.com (Terri Jarus) Date: Tue, 16 Mar 2004 15:35:37 -0600 Subject: [AccessD] FMS Total Access Memo Question Message-ID: The Total Access Memo feature is a Wordpad clone for all intents and purposes. I probably misrepresented what they state in the FAQs, but what you have to do is copy the memo field to the Windows Clipboard and then paste from that to the bookmark in the Word document. The code for some of that is at this link: http://www.fmsinc.com/faqs/tamemo.htm#Clipboard Here's more info from their message board: "For the Bookmark trick, you can also copy the contents to the clipboard and work with an open object (the MS Word Document with bookmarks) directly. In other words, programamtically control the MS Word document by finding the bookmark and pasting the copied text directly into the bookmark instead of exporting to a file, then importing that file for the bookmark." My problem is that I don't know how to do this and could use an example if someone had one. I already have a Word template set up with bookmarks that is functional with the current memo fields that I want to change to TAM formatted fields, but my programming skills are minimal and I don't understand exactly how to approach this. I just don't ever get to spend very much time on database design and programming to develop a sound understanding of how things function. It's not my main job - it's my way of putting something together that is more efficient than what we currently have and our IS team does not believe in Access nor has the time to devote to developing applications that I need. Thanks for your response, if you can provide some further assistance - that would be great. Terri Jarus Director, Contract Support Services jarus at amerinet-gpo.com 314-542-1902 >>> gustav at cactus.dk 03/16/04 06:51AM >>> Hi Terri > There are a lot of memo fields that might need special formatting - > bolding, italics, bullets, etc. When I looked into using the > richtext ocx, you had to set up buttons for each formatting need. Yes, for a client I have Normal, Bold, Italic, and Underline - that's all they need. Of course, if you need more elaborate formatting you'll soon find yourself designing a WordPad clone. By the way, both the ocx and WordPad depends on the same richtex dll. > The issue would still be the same since the richtext feature is an > ActiveX control and that does not translate to Word - unless you can > tell me how to do that. There's nothing to do ... every memo field is an RTF document on its own and the control even has methods for reading and writing the content to a file. > That's FMS' pat answer - ActiveX controls don't translate over to Word. I don't know what FMS is talking about here. Again, there is nothing to translate - Word eats RTF files for lunch. /gustav > Terri Jarus > Director, Contract Support Services > jarus at amerinet-gpo.com > 314-542-1902 >>>> gustav at cactus.dk 03/16/04 05:43AM >>> > Hi Terri > Well, if all you need is some simple formatting, the MS richtext ocx will > do if you add some buttons and associated code. > /gustav >> Is anybody using this software? I purchased it a few weeks ago and I'm running into some issues of which I was unaware. >> My key reason for getting this software was to have the ability to format memo fields and then export them to Word. However, I was unaware of the difficulty in doing this. >> Is there some other 3rd party software that allows this functionality? >> Thanks for any hints, tips or advice. >> Terri Jarus >> Director, Contract Support Services >> jarus at amerinet-gpo.com >> 314-542-1902 -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com --------------------------------------------------------------------------- This email and any files transmitted with it are confidential and intended solely for the use of the individuals or entities to whom they are addressed. If you have received this email in error please return it to the sender, and erase any copies thereof. Copyright 2004 Amerinet 1nc. From jarus at amerinet-gpo.com Tue Mar 16 15:38:37 2004 From: jarus at amerinet-gpo.com (Terri Jarus) Date: Tue, 16 Mar 2004 15:38:37 -0600 Subject: [AccessD] Short Date Input Mask question Message-ID: Can you customize the short date format to (9/9/0000;0;_) to get the result you want? I think that will work. Terri Jarus Director, Contract Support Services jarus at amerinet-gpo.com 314-542-1902 >>> artful at rogers.com 03/16/04 04:47PM >>> The standard short date input mask (99/99/0000;0;_) has a shortcoming that I hate: you have to type 04/04/04 to get April 4th 2004. The year handling is nice but the month and day suck. The mask won't let you type 4/4/04. Is there an alternative mask that will respond intelligently to such input? Or should I instead just remove all the input masks from all the date fields? TIA, Arthur -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com --------------------------------------------------------------------------- This email and any files transmitted with it are confidential and intended solely for the use of the individuals or entities to whom they are addressed. If you have received this email in error please return it to the sender, and erase any copies thereof. Copyright 2004 Amerinet 1nc. From stuart at lexacorp.com.pg Tue Mar 16 16:05:42 2004 From: stuart at lexacorp.com.pg (Stuart McLachlan) Date: Wed, 17 Mar 2004 08:05:42 +1000 Subject: [AccessD] Short Date Input Mask question In-Reply-To: <000001c40ba8$a486de90$6501a8c0@rock> References: <20040316064213.26974.qmail@web61107.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <405806D6.28745.F33D59@localhost> On 16 Mar 2004 at 14:47, Arthur Fuller wrote: > The standard short date input mask (99/99/0000;0;_) has a shortcoming > that I hate: you have to type 04/04/04 to get April 4th 2004. The year > handling is nice but the month and day suck. The mask won't let you type > 4/4/04. Is there an alternative mask that will respond intelligently to > such input? Or should I instead just remove all the input masks from all > the date fields? > I gave up using date input masks long ago, they are a PITA. A lot of date entry tends to be for the current year and it's so simple to just enter 4/4 using the numieric keypad. -- Lexacorp Ltd http://www.lexacorp.com.pg Information Technology Consultancy, Software Development,System Support. From stuart at lexacorp.com.pg Tue Mar 16 16:10:01 2004 From: stuart at lexacorp.com.pg (Stuart McLachlan) Date: Wed, 17 Mar 2004 08:10:01 +1000 Subject: [AccessD] Short Date Input Mask question In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <405807D9.25404.F73111@localhost> On 16 Mar 2004 at 15:40, John W. Colby wrote: > A great case for a framework. Define the various formats you use in your > text boxes and then tell the framework to figure out that it's a date and > apply a format. > To a man with a hammer....... :-) Access does that just fine by itself if you set the format property to "d mmm yyyyy" or whatever you want in the particular situation. -- Lexacorp Ltd http://www.lexacorp.com.pg Information Technology Consultancy, Software Development,System Support. From jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com Tue Mar 16 16:35:29 2004 From: jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com (John W. Colby) Date: Tue, 16 Mar 2004 17:35:29 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Short Date Input Mask question In-Reply-To: <405807D9.25404.F73111@localhost> Message-ID: Stuart, that is a silly thing to say, and exactly the reason that I can't help but wonder whether anyone at all reads the posts I spend hours writing and writing example code for. Of course "Access does that just fine by itself if you set the format property to "d mmm yyyyy". And now, WE (you and I) have an application where our respective clients say "I hate that format". I don't know what You do but I go into my sysvar table and change a SysVar. The next time the app opens all date fields are formatted however the client wants. What exactly DO you do? To a man with a search and replace program.... Shall I just abandon my attempts to educate this list about what frameworks can do? Seems a shame, but it sure appears I've wasted about 30 hours so far. John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Stuart McLachlan Sent: Tuesday, March 16, 2004 5:10 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problemsolving Subject: RE: [AccessD] Short Date Input Mask question On 16 Mar 2004 at 15:40, John W. Colby wrote: > A great case for a framework. Define the various formats you use in your > text boxes and then tell the framework to figure out that it's a date and > apply a format. > To a man with a hammer....... :-) Access does that just fine by itself if you set the format property to "d mmm yyyyy" or whatever you want in the particular situation. -- Lexacorp Ltd http://www.lexacorp.com.pg Information Technology Consultancy, Software Development,System Support. -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From andrew.haslett at ilc.gov.au Tue Mar 16 17:10:46 2004 From: andrew.haslett at ilc.gov.au (Haslett, Andrew) Date: Wed, 17 Mar 2004 09:40:46 +1030 Subject: [AccessD] Short Date Input Mask question Message-ID: John, IMO - the reason for you spending time on creating your framework should be for your clients - not necessarily this list. It may benefit them if they decide to implement it - but shouldn't be your main priority.. As I mentioned in an earlier post, it is unlikely that many will go to the trouble of implementing any framework that takes (what seems like) quite a bit of extra knowledge and understanding, unless its incredibly well documented and easy to use. If you can accomplish this or if its saves you time then great - but I don't think laying a guilt trip on users here who have other ways of doing things is appropriate.. Its your choice what you want to provide to this list - not ours. Regards, Andrew -----Original Message----- From: John W. Colby [mailto:jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com] Sent: Wednesday, 17 March 2004 9:05 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] Short Date Input Mask question Stuart, that is a silly thing to say, and exactly the reason that I can't help but wonder whether anyone at all reads the posts I spend hours writing and writing example code for. Of course "Access does that just fine by itself if you set the format property to "d mmm yyyyy". And now, WE (you and I) have an application where our respective clients say "I hate that format". I don't know what You do but I go into my sysvar table and change a SysVar. The next time the app opens all date fields are formatted however the client wants. What exactly DO you do? To a man with a search and replace program.... Shall I just abandon my attempts to educate this list about what frameworks can do? Seems a shame, but it sure appears I've wasted about 30 hours so far. John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Stuart McLachlan Sent: Tuesday, March 16, 2004 5:10 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problemsolving Subject: RE: [AccessD] Short Date Input Mask question On 16 Mar 2004 at 15:40, John W. Colby wrote: > A great case for a framework. Define the various formats you use in > your text boxes and then tell the framework to figure out that it's a > date and apply a format. > To a man with a hammer....... :-) Access does that just fine by itself if you set the format property to "d mmm yyyyy" or whatever you want in the particular situation. -- Lexacorp Ltd http://www.lexacorp.com.pg Information Technology Consultancy, Software Development,System Support. -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com IMPORTANT - PLEASE READ ******************** This email and any files transmitted with it are confidential and may contain information protected by law from disclosure. If you have received this message in error, please notify the sender immediately and delete this email from your system. No warranty is given that this email or files, if attached to this email, are free from computer viruses or other defects. They are provided on the basis the user assumes all responsibility for loss, damage or consequence resulting directly or indirectly from their use, whether caused by the negligence of the sender or not. From Subscriptions at servicexp.com Tue Mar 16 17:50:33 2004 From: Subscriptions at servicexp.com (Robert Gracie) Date: Tue, 16 Mar 2004 18:50:33 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Short Date Input Mask question In-Reply-To: Message-ID: John, Well I for one would hate to see that. I have learned a great deal from your examples and articles, and I know that others are learning too. Just from what I have learned so far, I will be building a class based framework, no doubt about it. I see many benefits to this type of programming design... Robert Gracie www.servicexp.com -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of John W. Colby Sent: Tuesday, March 16, 2004 5:35 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] Short Date Input Mask question Stuart, that is a silly thing to say, and exactly the reason that I can't help but wonder whether anyone at all reads the posts I spend hours writing and writing example code for. Of course "Access does that just fine by itself if you set the format property to "d mmm yyyyy". And now, WE (you and I) have an application where our respective clients say "I hate that format". I don't know what You do but I go into my sysvar table and change a SysVar. The next time the app opens all date fields are formatted however the client wants. What exactly DO you do? To a man with a search and replace program.... Shall I just abandon my attempts to educate this list about what frameworks can do? Seems a shame, but it sure appears I've wasted about 30 hours so far. John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Stuart McLachlan Sent: Tuesday, March 16, 2004 5:10 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problemsolving Subject: RE: [AccessD] Short Date Input Mask question On 16 Mar 2004 at 15:40, John W. Colby wrote: > A great case for a framework. Define the various formats you use in your > text boxes and then tell the framework to figure out that it's a date and > apply a format. > To a man with a hammer....... :-) Access does that just fine by itself if you set the format property to "d mmm yyyyy" or whatever you want in the particular situation. -- Lexacorp Ltd http://www.lexacorp.com.pg Information Technology Consultancy, Software Development,System Support. -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From andrew.haslett at ilc.gov.au Tue Mar 16 18:07:30 2004 From: andrew.haslett at ilc.gov.au (Haslett, Andrew) Date: Wed, 17 Mar 2004 10:37:30 +1030 Subject: [AccessD] Short Date Input Mask question Message-ID: (PS. I personally have found it quite useful and its been a handy refresher in terms of withevents, class design etc. ) -----Original Message----- From: Haslett, Andrew [mailto:andrew.haslett at ilc.gov.au] Sent: Wednesday, 17 March 2004 9:41 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: [AccessD] Short Date Input Mask question John, IMO - the reason for you spending time on creating your framework should be for your clients - not necessarily this list. It may benefit them if they decide to implement it - but shouldn't be your main priority.. As I mentioned in an earlier post, it is unlikely that many will go to the trouble of implementing any framework that takes (what seems like) quite a bit of extra knowledge and understanding, unless its incredibly well documented and easy to use. If you can accomplish this or if its saves you time then great - but I don't think laying a guilt trip on users here who have other ways of doing things is appropriate.. Its your choice what you want to provide to this list - not ours. Regards, Andrew -----Original Message----- From: John W. Colby [mailto:jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com] Sent: Wednesday, 17 March 2004 9:05 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] Short Date Input Mask question Stuart, that is a silly thing to say, and exactly the reason that I can't help but wonder whether anyone at all reads the posts I spend hours writing and writing example code for. Of course "Access does that just fine by itself if you set the format property to "d mmm yyyyy". And now, WE (you and I) have an application where our respective clients say "I hate that format". I don't know what You do but I go into my sysvar table and change a SysVar. The next time the app opens all date fields are formatted however the client wants. What exactly DO you do? To a man with a search and replace program.... Shall I just abandon my attempts to educate this list about what frameworks can do? Seems a shame, but it sure appears I've wasted about 30 hours so far. John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Stuart McLachlan Sent: Tuesday, March 16, 2004 5:10 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problemsolving Subject: RE: [AccessD] Short Date Input Mask question On 16 Mar 2004 at 15:40, John W. Colby wrote: > A great case for a framework. Define the various formats you use in > your text boxes and then tell the framework to figure out that it's a > date and apply a format. > To a man with a hammer....... :-) Access does that just fine by itself if you set the format property to "d mmm yyyyy" or whatever you want in the particular situation. -- Lexacorp Ltd http://www.lexacorp.com.pg Information Technology Consultancy, Software Development,System Support. -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com IMPORTANT - PLEASE READ ******************** This email and any files transmitted with it are confidential and may contain information protected by law from disclosure. If you have received this message in error, please notify the sender immediately and delete this email from your system. No warranty is given that this email or files, if attached to this email, are free from computer viruses or other defects. They are provided on the basis the user assumes all responsibility for loss, damage or consequence resulting directly or indirectly from their use, whether caused by the negligence of the sender or not. -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com IMPORTANT - PLEASE READ ******************** This email and any files transmitted with it are confidential and may contain information protected by law from disclosure. If you have received this message in error, please notify the sender immediately and delete this email from your system. No warranty is given that this email or files, if attached to this email, are free from computer viruses or other defects. They are provided on the basis the user assumes all responsibility for loss, damage or consequence resulting directly or indirectly from their use, whether caused by the negligence of the sender or not. From john at winhaven.net Tue Mar 16 18:16:12 2004 From: john at winhaven.net (John Bartow) Date: Tue, 16 Mar 2004 18:16:12 -0600 Subject: [AccessD] FMS Total Access Memo Question In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Terri, Have you discussed this issue on the FMS forums? John B. -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Terri Jarus Sent: Tuesday, March 16, 2004 3:36 PM To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: Re: [AccessD] FMS Total Access Memo Question The Total Access Memo feature is a Wordpad clone for all intents and purposes. I probably misrepresented what they state in the FAQs, but what you have to do is copy the memo field to the Windows Clipboard and then paste from that to the bookmark in the Word document. The code for some of that is at this link: http://www.fmsinc.com/faqs/tamemo.htm#Clipboard Here's more info from their message board: "For the Bookmark trick, you can also copy the contents to the clipboard and work with an open object (the MS Word Document with bookmarks) directly. In other words, programamtically control the MS Word document by finding the bookmark and pasting the copied text directly into the bookmark instead of exporting to a file, then importing that file for the bookmark." My problem is that I don't know how to do this and could use an example if someone had one. I already have a Word template set up with bookmarks that is functional with the current memo fields that I want to change to TAM formatted fields, but my programming skills are minimal and I don't understand exactly how to approach this. I just don't ever get to spend very much time on database design and programming to develop a sound understanding of how things function. It's not my main job - it's my way of putting something together that is more efficient than what we currently have and our IS team does not believe in Access nor has the time to devote to developing applications that I need. Thanks for your response, if you can provide some further assistance - that would be great. Terri Jarus Director, Contract Support Services jarus at amerinet-gpo.com 314-542-1902 >>> gustav at cactus.dk 03/16/04 06:51AM >>> Hi Terri > There are a lot of memo fields that might need special formatting - > bolding, italics, bullets, etc. When I looked into using the > richtext ocx, you had to set up buttons for each formatting need. Yes, for a client I have Normal, Bold, Italic, and Underline - that's all they need. Of course, if you need more elaborate formatting you'll soon find yourself designing a WordPad clone. By the way, both the ocx and WordPad depends on the same richtex dll. > The issue would still be the same since the richtext feature is an > ActiveX control and that does not translate to Word - unless you can > tell me how to do that. There's nothing to do ... every memo field is an RTF document on its own and the control even has methods for reading and writing the content to a file. > That's FMS' pat answer - ActiveX controls don't translate over to Word. I don't know what FMS is talking about here. Again, there is nothing to translate - Word eats RTF files for lunch. /gustav > Terri Jarus > Director, Contract Support Services > jarus at amerinet-gpo.com > 314-542-1902 >>>> gustav at cactus.dk 03/16/04 05:43AM >>> > Hi Terri > Well, if all you need is some simple formatting, the MS richtext ocx will > do if you add some buttons and associated code. > /gustav >> Is anybody using this software? I purchased it a few weeks ago and I'm running into some issues of which I was unaware. >> My key reason for getting this software was to have the ability to format memo fields and then export them to Word. However, I was unaware of the difficulty in doing this. >> Is there some other 3rd party software that allows this functionality? >> Thanks for any hints, tips or advice. >> Terri Jarus >> Director, Contract Support Services >> jarus at amerinet-gpo.com >> 314-542-1902 -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com --------------------------------------------------------------------------- This email and any files transmitted with it are confidential and intended solely for the use of the individuals or entities to whom they are addressed. If you have received this email in error please return it to the sender, and erase any copies thereof. Copyright 2004 Amerinet 1nc. -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com Tue Mar 16 18:54:01 2004 From: jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com (John W. Colby) Date: Tue, 16 Mar 2004 19:54:01 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Short Date Input Mask question In-Reply-To: Message-ID: >John, IMO - the reason for you spending time on creating your framework should be for your clients - not necessarily this list. I am not spending time developing a framework for this list. I am spending time explaining to the list what a framework does and how MINE does it. And then a list members makes a statement like that? Excuse me but that statement displays an gigantic ignorance of the subject under discussion, a rather large ignorance as to my abilities and the tools at my disposal, and not borders on rude. >It may benefit them if they decide to implement it - but shouldn't be your main priority.. One of two of my "main priorities" of being on this list is helping other list members learn new things. The other is learning new things myself. >but I don't think laying a guilt trip on users here who have other ways of doing things is appropriate As for guilt trips, I am just spending a lot of time doing this. If it is just to hear myself speak I'll go read a book. At least someone will end up learning something from my doing that! "To a man with a hammer"???? John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Haslett, Andrew Sent: Tuesday, March 16, 2004 6:11 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: [AccessD] Short Date Input Mask question John, IMO - the reason for you spending time on creating your framework should be for your clients - not necessarily this list. It may benefit them if they decide to implement it - but shouldn't be your main priority.. As I mentioned in an earlier post, it is unlikely that many will go to the trouble of implementing any framework that takes (what seems like) quite a bit of extra knowledge and understanding, unless its incredibly well documented and easy to use. If you can accomplish this or if its saves you time then great - but I don't think laying a guilt trip on users here who have other ways of doing things is appropriate.. Its your choice what you want to provide to this list - not ours. Regards, Andrew -----Original Message----- From: John W. Colby [mailto:jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com] Sent: Wednesday, 17 March 2004 9:05 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] Short Date Input Mask question Stuart, that is a silly thing to say, and exactly the reason that I can't help but wonder whether anyone at all reads the posts I spend hours writing and writing example code for. Of course "Access does that just fine by itself if you set the format property to "d mmm yyyyy". And now, WE (you and I) have an application where our respective clients say "I hate that format". I don't know what You do but I go into my sysvar table and change a SysVar. The next time the app opens all date fields are formatted however the client wants. What exactly DO you do? To a man with a search and replace program.... Shall I just abandon my attempts to educate this list about what frameworks can do? Seems a shame, but it sure appears I've wasted about 30 hours so far. John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Stuart McLachlan Sent: Tuesday, March 16, 2004 5:10 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problemsolving Subject: RE: [AccessD] Short Date Input Mask question On 16 Mar 2004 at 15:40, John W. Colby wrote: > A great case for a framework. Define the various formats you use in > your text boxes and then tell the framework to figure out that it's a > date and apply a format. > To a man with a hammer....... :-) Access does that just fine by itself if you set the format property to "d mmm yyyyy" or whatever you want in the particular situation. -- Lexacorp Ltd http://www.lexacorp.com.pg Information Technology Consultancy, Software Development,System Support. -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com IMPORTANT - PLEASE READ ******************** This email and any files transmitted with it are confidential and may contain information protected by law from disclosure. If you have received this message in error, please notify the sender immediately and delete this email from your system. No warranty is given that this email or files, if attached to this email, are free from computer viruses or other defects. They are provided on the basis the user assumes all responsibility for loss, damage or consequence resulting directly or indirectly from their use, whether caused by the negligence of the sender or not. -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From wdhindman at bellsouth.net Tue Mar 16 19:00:09 2004 From: wdhindman at bellsouth.net (William Hindman) Date: Tue, 16 Mar 2004 20:00:09 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Short Date Input Mask question References: Message-ID: <000a01c40bbb$31dbe120$6101a8c0@dejpolsys> ...while I don't personally use a framework, I do take JC's points re standardizing common code throughout apps to heart ...I did not take his post as chastising anyone re framework use per se but rather frustration at an apparent lack of use of sound coding principles that are applicable to any professional development environment, with or without a framework. ...while JC can be unintentionally obtuse and pedantic when he gets on his podium, I find the overall content to be useful in my work as well as entertaining ...often when that wasn't his intent ...so as far as I'm concerned, he's wasting neither his time nor mine ...but that's just my two cents :) William Hindman You know the world is upside down when Bill Clinton wins a Grammy and Janet Jackson is the subject of a government sex investigation. Argus Hamilton. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Haslett, Andrew" To: "'Access Developers discussion and problem solving'" Sent: Tuesday, March 16, 2004 6:10 PM Subject: RE: [AccessD] Short Date Input Mask question > John, IMO - the reason for you spending time on creating your framework > should be for your clients - not necessarily this list. It may benefit them > if they decide to implement it - but shouldn't be your main priority.. > > As I mentioned in an earlier post, it is unlikely that many will go to the > trouble of implementing any framework that takes (what seems like) quite a > bit of extra knowledge and understanding, unless its incredibly well > documented and easy to use. > > If you can accomplish this or if its saves you time then great - but I don't > think laying a guilt trip on users here who have other ways of doing things > is appropriate.. Its your choice what you want to provide to this list - not > ours. > > Regards, > Andrew > > > -----Original Message----- > From: John W. Colby [mailto:jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com] > Sent: Wednesday, 17 March 2004 9:05 AM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: RE: [AccessD] Short Date Input Mask question > > Stuart, that is a silly thing to say, and exactly the reason that I can't > help but wonder whether anyone at all reads the posts I spend hours writing > and writing example code for. > > Of course "Access does that just fine by itself if you set the format > property to "d mmm yyyyy". > > And now, WE (you and I) have an application where our respective clients > say "I hate that format". I don't know what You do but I go into my sysvar > table and change a SysVar. The next time the app opens all date fields are > formatted however the client wants. > > What exactly DO you do? > > To a man with a search and replace program.... > > Shall I just abandon my attempts to educate this list about what frameworks > can do? Seems a shame, but it sure appears I've wasted about 30 hours so > far. > > John W. Colby > www.ColbyConsulting.com > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Stuart McLachlan > Sent: Tuesday, March 16, 2004 5:10 PM > To: Access Developers discussion and problemsolving > Subject: RE: [AccessD] Short Date Input Mask question > > > On 16 Mar 2004 at 15:40, John W. Colby wrote: > > > A great case for a framework. Define the various formats you use in > > your text boxes and then tell the framework to figure out that it's a > > date and apply a format. > > > > To a man with a hammer....... > :-) > > Access does that just fine by itself if you set the format property to "d > mmm yyyyy" or whatever you want in the particular situation. > > > -- > Lexacorp Ltd > http://www.lexacorp.com.pg > Information Technology Consultancy, Software Development,System Support. > > > > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > IMPORTANT - PLEASE READ ******************** > This email and any files transmitted with it are confidential and may > contain information protected by law from disclosure. > If you have received this message in error, please notify the sender > immediately and delete this email from your system. > No warranty is given that this email or files, if attached to this > email, are free from computer viruses or other defects. They > are provided on the basis the user assumes all responsibility for > loss, damage or consequence resulting directly or indirectly from > their use, whether caused by the negligence of the sender or not. > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > From jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com Tue Mar 16 19:18:48 2004 From: jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com (John W. Colby) Date: Tue, 16 Mar 2004 20:18:48 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Short Date Input Mask question In-Reply-To: <000a01c40bbb$31dbe120$6101a8c0@dejpolsys> Message-ID: >...while JC can be unintentionally obtuse and pedantic when he gets on his podium, I find the overall content to be useful in my work as well as entertaining ... ROTFL. As long as I am least entertaining someone. John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of William Hindman Sent: Tuesday, March 16, 2004 8:00 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Short Date Input Mask question ...while I don't personally use a framework, I do take JC's points re standardizing common code throughout apps to heart ...I did not take his post as chastising anyone re framework use per se but rather frustration at an apparent lack of use of sound coding principles that are applicable to any professional development environment, with or without a framework. ...while JC can be unintentionally obtuse and pedantic when he gets on his podium, I find the overall content to be useful in my work as well as entertaining ...often when that wasn't his intent ...so as far as I'm concerned, he's wasting neither his time nor mine ...but that's just my two cents :) William Hindman You know the world is upside down when Bill Clinton wins a Grammy and Janet Jackson is the subject of a government sex investigation. Argus Hamilton. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Haslett, Andrew" To: "'Access Developers discussion and problem solving'" Sent: Tuesday, March 16, 2004 6:10 PM Subject: RE: [AccessD] Short Date Input Mask question > John, IMO - the reason for you spending time on creating your framework > should be for your clients - not necessarily this list. It may benefit them > if they decide to implement it - but shouldn't be your main priority.. > > As I mentioned in an earlier post, it is unlikely that many will go to the > trouble of implementing any framework that takes (what seems like) quite a > bit of extra knowledge and understanding, unless its incredibly well > documented and easy to use. > > If you can accomplish this or if its saves you time then great - but I don't > think laying a guilt trip on users here who have other ways of doing things > is appropriate.. Its your choice what you want to provide to this list - not > ours. > > Regards, > Andrew > > > -----Original Message----- > From: John W. Colby [mailto:jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com] > Sent: Wednesday, 17 March 2004 9:05 AM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: RE: [AccessD] Short Date Input Mask question > > Stuart, that is a silly thing to say, and exactly the reason that I can't > help but wonder whether anyone at all reads the posts I spend hours writing > and writing example code for. > > Of course "Access does that just fine by itself if you set the format > property to "d mmm yyyyy". > > And now, WE (you and I) have an application where our respective clients > say "I hate that format". I don't know what You do but I go into my sysvar > table and change a SysVar. The next time the app opens all date fields are > formatted however the client wants. > > What exactly DO you do? > > To a man with a search and replace program.... > > Shall I just abandon my attempts to educate this list about what frameworks > can do? Seems a shame, but it sure appears I've wasted about 30 hours so > far. > > John W. Colby > www.ColbyConsulting.com > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Stuart McLachlan > Sent: Tuesday, March 16, 2004 5:10 PM > To: Access Developers discussion and problemsolving > Subject: RE: [AccessD] Short Date Input Mask question > > > On 16 Mar 2004 at 15:40, John W. Colby wrote: > > > A great case for a framework. Define the various formats you use in > > your text boxes and then tell the framework to figure out that it's a > > date and apply a format. > > > > To a man with a hammer....... > :-) > > Access does that just fine by itself if you set the format property to "d > mmm yyyyy" or whatever you want in the particular situation. > > > -- > Lexacorp Ltd > http://www.lexacorp.com.pg > Information Technology Consultancy, Software Development,System Support. > > > > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > IMPORTANT - PLEASE READ ******************** > This email and any files transmitted with it are confidential and may > contain information protected by law from disclosure. > If you have received this message in error, please notify the sender > immediately and delete this email from your system. > No warranty is given that this email or files, if attached to this > email, are free from computer viruses or other defects. They > are provided on the basis the user assumes all responsibility for > loss, damage or consequence resulting directly or indirectly from > their use, whether caused by the negligence of the sender or not. > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From accessd at shaw.ca Tue Mar 16 19:34:18 2004 From: accessd at shaw.ca (Jim Lawrence (AccessD)) Date: Tue, 16 Mar 2004 17:34:18 -0800 Subject: [AccessD] Short Date Input Mask question In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Hi All: I am enjoying watching John's examples and his methods of programming unfolding. It may not be everyone's cup-of-tea but there has been a lot of thought and effort going into writing and explaining the concepts. Maybe I am a total geek but I enjoy nothing more than an intellectually provocative and challenging programming exercise regardless of my personal level application. John is doing an excellent job in articulating his coding concepts and I in no way wish to discourage his lectures...in fact I am looking very much forward to his next article. My two cents worth. Jim -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Haslett, Andrew Sent: Tuesday, March 16, 2004 3:11 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: [AccessD] Short Date Input Mask question John, IMO - the reason for you spending time on creating your framework should be for your clients - not necessarily this list. It may benefit them if they decide to implement it - but shouldn't be your main priority.. As I mentioned in an earlier post, it is unlikely that many will go to the trouble of implementing any framework that takes (what seems like) quite a bit of extra knowledge and understanding, unless its incredibly well documented and easy to use. If you can accomplish this or if its saves you time then great - but I don't think laying a guilt trip on users here who have other ways of doing things is appropriate.. Its your choice what you want to provide to this list - not ours. Regards, Andrew -----Original Message----- From: John W. Colby [mailto:jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com] Sent: Wednesday, 17 March 2004 9:05 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] Short Date Input Mask question Stuart, that is a silly thing to say, and exactly the reason that I can't help but wonder whether anyone at all reads the posts I spend hours writing and writing example code for. Of course "Access does that just fine by itself if you set the format property to "d mmm yyyyy". And now, WE (you and I) have an application where our respective clients say "I hate that format". I don't know what You do but I go into my sysvar table and change a SysVar. The next time the app opens all date fields are formatted however the client wants. What exactly DO you do? To a man with a search and replace program.... Shall I just abandon my attempts to educate this list about what frameworks can do? Seems a shame, but it sure appears I've wasted about 30 hours so far. John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Stuart McLachlan Sent: Tuesday, March 16, 2004 5:10 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problemsolving Subject: RE: [AccessD] Short Date Input Mask question On 16 Mar 2004 at 15:40, John W. Colby wrote: > A great case for a framework. Define the various formats you use in > your text boxes and then tell the framework to figure out that it's a > date and apply a format. > To a man with a hammer....... :-) Access does that just fine by itself if you set the format property to "d mmm yyyyy" or whatever you want in the particular situation. -- Lexacorp Ltd http://www.lexacorp.com.pg Information Technology Consultancy, Software Development,System Support. -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com IMPORTANT - PLEASE READ ******************** This email and any files transmitted with it are confidential and may contain information protected by law from disclosure. If you have received this message in error, please notify the sender immediately and delete this email from your system. No warranty is given that this email or files, if attached to this email, are free from computer viruses or other defects. They are provided on the basis the user assumes all responsibility for loss, damage or consequence resulting directly or indirectly from their use, whether caused by the negligence of the sender or not. -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From stuart at lexacorp.com.pg Tue Mar 16 21:15:47 2004 From: stuart at lexacorp.com.pg (Stuart McLachlan) Date: Wed, 17 Mar 2004 13:15:47 +1000 Subject: [AccessD] Short Date Input Mask question In-Reply-To: References: <405807D9.25404.F73111@localhost> Message-ID: <40584F83.14263.20F1FAA@localhost> On 16 Mar 2004 at 17:35, John W. Colby wrote: > And now, WE (you and I) have an application where our respective clients > say "I hate that format". I don't know what You do but I go into my sysvar > table and change a SysVar. The next time the app opens all date fields are > formatted however the client wants. > > What exactly DO you do? > I determine with my clients what format they want the date in before I give them the UI . I call my methodology "Design and Development", not "Development and Design" > To a man with a search and replace program.... > > Shall I just abandon my attempts to educate this list about what frameworks > can do? Seems a shame, but it sure appears I've wasted about 30 hours so > far. > Not at all. I can see that your framework is very useful for many things. At the same time, spending a lot of time developing automated ways to do things that you only need to do rarely and which can be done simply when they *are* needed - strikes me as overkill. -- Lexacorp Ltd http://www.lexacorp.com.pg Information Technology Consultancy, Software Development,System Support. From artful at rogers.com Wed Mar 17 00:21:42 2004 From: artful at rogers.com (Arthur Fuller) Date: Tue, 16 Mar 2004 22:21:42 -0800 Subject: [AccessD] Short Date Input Mask question In-Reply-To: <405806D6.28745.F33D59@localhost> Message-ID: <000001c40be8$22bb8790$6501a8c0@rock> So the question becomes, how can I null all the date-field masks that I embedded so carefully, in both the numerous tables and all the forms? I want to walk the list of tables and wipe out the masks for all date fields, then do the same to all the forms. There are way too many to do by hand. I tried running Rick Fisher's Find and Replace to do this and got numerous error messages saying "User defined properties do not support a null value". So I replaced the masks with " " and although Rick's tool warned me that I was inserting a trailing space, it worked perfectly. Kewl! Arthur -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Stuart McLachlan Sent: Tuesday, March 16, 2004 2:06 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problemsolving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Short Date Input Mask question On 16 Mar 2004 at 14:47, Arthur Fuller wrote: > The standard short date input mask (99/99/0000;0;_) has a shortcoming > that I hate: you have to type 04/04/04 to get April 4th 2004. The year > handling is nice but the month and day suck. The mask won't let you > type 4/4/04. Is there an alternative mask that will respond > intelligently to such input? Or should I instead just remove all the > input masks from all the date fields? > I gave up using date input masks long ago, they are a PITA. A lot of date entry tends to be for the current year and it's so simple to just enter 4/4 using the numieric keypad. From jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com Tue Mar 16 22:27:18 2004 From: jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com (John W. Colby) Date: Tue, 16 Mar 2004 23:27:18 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Short Date Input Mask question In-Reply-To: <40584F83.14263.20F1FAA@localhost> Message-ID: >I determine with my clients what format they want the date in before I give them the UI . I call my methodology "Design and Development", not "Development and Design" And of course your clients NEVER change their mind. ROTFLMAO over that one! And of course you neatly sidestepped the question. >At the same time, spending a lot of time developing automated ways to do things that you only need to do rarely and which can be done simply when they *are* needed - strikes me as overkill. I don't spend a lot of time developing automated ways of doing things I rarely need to do. I spend a little extra time developing automated ways of doing things that I need to do all of the time. Of course having spent a little extra time once I save it on the next project, and the next, and the next... And of course you never answered how you do make such a change when it *IS* needed so it becomes difficult to determine how "simple" it is for you to do. But of course if you can't just change a sysvar then you must do a search and replace of all format strings. And of course we hope that all date controls have a format string. Or do you just take notes as the user finds controls that don't have a format string and go add those in. Or perhaps, you simply never make the mistake of not applying the format string to each and every control that displays a date. Oh, I forgot... "Design and development".... over, and over and over and over and over and... I really prefer design and development one time, thanks! John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Stuart McLachlan Sent: Tuesday, March 16, 2004 10:16 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problemsolving Subject: RE: [AccessD] Short Date Input Mask question On 16 Mar 2004 at 17:35, John W. Colby wrote: > And now, WE (you and I) have an application where our respective clients > say "I hate that format". I don't know what You do but I go into my sysvar > table and change a SysVar. The next time the app opens all date fields are > formatted however the client wants. > > What exactly DO you do? > I determine with my clients what format they want the date in before I give them the UI . I call my methodology "Design and Development", not "Development and Design" > To a man with a search and replace program.... > > Shall I just abandon my attempts to educate this list about what frameworks > can do? Seems a shame, but it sure appears I've wasted about 30 hours so > far. > Not at all. I can see that your framework is very useful for many things. At the same time, spending a lot of time developing automated ways to do things that you only need to do rarely and which can be done simply when they *are* needed - strikes me as overkill. -- Lexacorp Ltd http://www.lexacorp.com.pg Information Technology Consultancy, Software Development,System Support. -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From bchacc at san.rr.com Tue Mar 16 22:57:50 2004 From: bchacc at san.rr.com (Rocky Smolin - Beach Access Software) Date: Tue, 16 Mar 2004 20:57:50 -0800 Subject: [AccessD] Access 2003 Developer Edition? References: <40560466.1080601@shaw.ca> Message-ID: <01fd01c40bdc$65fa7540$6601a8c0@HAL9002> Marty: A couple of weeks ago I was asking about deploying an Access product and trying to decide whether to go with Wise/Sagekey A2K script with an A2K mde. But I'd have to buy the A2K developer edition. as well as the Sagekey script. Now it appears, IIUC, that I could buy Office 2003 and the Office Developer Tools (I've got A97 Developer license so I could get the Tools upgrade price, I think), and use the Developer Tools packaging wizard. >From the article it appears that the Packaging Wizard is pretty good. I didn't detect any of the 'it really stinks' kind of review of earlier Access packagers. Has you or anyone had any experience with it yet? Is it a reasonable alternative? It probably would have a longer life than going with an A2K solution. One requirement I see is that the target machine has to have W2K or WXP but that shouldn't be too much of a problem as time goes on. Regards, Rocky Smolin Beach Access Software http://www.e-z-mrp.com ----- Original Message ----- From: "MartyConnelly" To: "Access Developers discussion and problem solving" Sent: Monday, March 15, 2004 11:30 AM Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access 2003 Developer Edition? > The Access 2003 runtime ships with any version of Office 2003 that has > Access 2003, the license to redistribute solutions with the Access > runtime is available exclusively through the Access Developer > Extensions. The Access Developer Extensions include the Package Wizard > and other developer-oriented tools. The Package Wizard creates a package > based on an Access 2003 solution that users can install and uninstall > with the Microsoft Windows Installer. You can only acquire the Access > Developer Extensions by buying the "Visual Studio Tools for the > Microsoft Office System". > http://msdn.microsoft.com/vstudio/office > > > Packaging Access 2003 Solutions Rick Dobson > > http://msdn.microsoft.com/library/default.asp?url=/library/en-us/dnsmart03/html/sa03j8.asp > > Michael Br?sdorf wrote: > > >Hello, > > > >I noticed that there seems to no more Office 2003 Developers Edition. Is it > >still possible to create Run-Time applications with Access 2003? > >` > >Michael > > > > > > > > -- > Marty Connelly > Victoria, B.C. > Canada > > > > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > From accessd667 at yahoo.com Wed Mar 17 01:20:38 2004 From: accessd667 at yahoo.com (S D) Date: Tue, 16 Mar 2004 23:20:38 -0800 (PST) Subject: [AccessD] Re: Transaction in MS-Access INFO REQUIRED In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.2.20040316093312.02a5b630@pop3.highstream.net> Message-ID: <20040317072038.3319.qmail@web61104.mail.yahoo.com> Thnx, for all the replies! Sander "Robert L. Stewart" wrote: Actually, there is. But, it is limited to the scope of the transaction and not based on a log file. SQL Server has both, transaction based ROLLBACK/COMMIT capability and the capability to go back to a log and rebuild transaction based on entries into it. >From MS Access Help: BeginTrans, CommitTrans, Rollback Methods Example This example changes the job title of all sales representatives in the Employees table of the database. After the BeginTrans method starts a transaction that isolates all the changes made to the Employees table, the CommitTrans method saves the changes. Notice that you can use the Rollback method to undo changes that you saved using the Update method. Furthermore, the main transaction is nested within another transaction that automatically rolls back any changes made by the user during this example. One or more table pages remain locked while the user decides whether or not to accept the changes. For this reason, this technique isn't recommended but shown only as an example. Sub BeginTransX() Dim strName As String Dim strMessage As String Dim wrkDefault As Workspace Dim dbsNorthwind As Database Dim rstEmployees As Recordset ' Get default Workspace. Set wrkDefault = DBEngine.Workspaces(0) Set dbsNorthwind = OpenDatabase("Northwind.mdb") Set rstEmployees = _ dbsNorthwind.OpenRecordset("Employees") ' Start of outer transaction. wrkDefault.BeginTrans ' Start of main transaction. wrkDefault.BeginTrans With rstEmployees ' Loop through recordset and ask user if she wants to ' change the title for a specified employee. Do Until .EOF If !Title = "Sales Representative" Then strName = !LastName & ", " & !FirstName strMessage = "Employee: " & strName & vbCr & _ "Change title to Account Executive?" ' Change the title for the specified employee. If MsgBox(strMessage, vbYesNo) = vbYes Then .Edit !Title = "Account Executive" .Update End If End If .MoveNext Loop ' Ask if the user wants to commit to all the changes ' made above. If MsgBox("Save all changes?", vbYesNo) = vbYes Then wrkDefault.CommitTrans Else wrkDefault.Rollback End If ' Print current data in recordset. .MoveFirst Do While Not .EOF Debug.Print !LastName & ", " & !FirstName & _ " - " & !Title .MoveNext Loop ' Roll back any changes made by the user since this is ' a demonstration. wrkDefault.Rollback .Close End With dbsNorthwind.Close End Sub BeginTrans, CommitTrans, Rollback Methods The transaction methods manage transaction processing during a session defined by a Workspace object as follows: ? BeginTrans begins a new transaction. ? CommitTrans ends the ? current transaction and saves the changes. ? Rollback ends the current transaction and restores the databases in the Workspace object to the state they were in when the current transaction began. Syntax workspace.BeginTrans | CommitTrans [dbForceOSFlush] | Rollback The workspace placeholder is an object variable that represents the Workspace containing the databases that will use transactions. Remarks You use these methods with a Workspace object when you want to treat a series of changes made to the databases in a session as one unit. Typically, you use transactions to maintain the integrity of your data when you must both update records in two or more tables and ensure changes are completed (committed) in all tables or none at all (rolled back). For example, if you transfer money from one account to another, you might subtract an amount from one and add the amount to another. If either update fails, the accounts no longer balance. Use the BeginTrans method before updating the first record, and then, if any subsequent update fails, you can use the Rollback method to undo all of the updates. Use the CommitTrans method after you successfully update the last record. In a Microsoft Jet workspace, you can include the dbForceOSFlush constant with CommitTrans. This forces the database engine to immediately flush all updates to disk, instead of caching them temporarily. Without using this option, a user could get control back immediately after the application program calls CommitTrans, turn the computer off, and not have the data written to disk. While using this option may affect your application?s performance, it is useful in situations where the computer could be shut off before cached updates are saved to disk. Caution Within one Workspace object, transactions are always global to the Workspace and aren't limited to only one Connection or Database object. If you perform operations on more than one connection or database within a Workspace transaction, resolving the transaction (that is, using the CommitTrans or Rollback method) affects all operations on all connections and databases within that workspace. After you use CommitTrans, you can't undo changes made during that transaction unless the transaction is nested within another transaction that is itself rolled back. If you nest transactions, you must resolve the current transaction before you can resolve a transaction at a higher level of nesting. If you want to have simultaneous transactions with overlapping, non-nested scopes, you can create additional Workspace objects to contain the concurrent transactions. If you close a Workspace object without resolving any pending transactions, the transactions are automatically rolled back. If you use the CommitTrans or Rollback method without first using the BeginTrans method, an error occurs. Some ISAM databases used in a Microsoft Jet workspace may not support transactions, in which case the Transactions property of the Database object or Recordset object is False. To make sure the database supports transactions, check the value of the Transactions property of the Database object before using the BeginTrans method. If you are using a Recordset object based on more than one database, check the Transactions property of the Recordset object. If a Recordset is based entirely on Microsoft Jet tables, you can always use transactions. Recordset objects based on tables created by other database products, however, may not support transactions. For example, you can't use transactions in a Recordset based on a Paradox table. In this case, the Transactions property is False. If the Database or Recordset doesn't support transactions, the methods are ignored and no error occurs. You can't nest transactions if you are accessing ODBC data sources through the Microsoft Jet database engine. In ODBC workspaces, when you use CommitTrans your cursor may no longer be valid. Use the Requery method to view the changes in the Recordset, or close and re-open the Recordset. Notes ? You can often improve the performance of your application by breaking operations that require disk access into transaction blocks. This buffers your operations and may significantly reduce the number of times a disk is accessed. ? In a Microsoft Jet workspace, transactions are logged in a file kept in the directory specified by the TEMP environment variable on the workstation. If the transaction log file exhausts the available storage on your TEMP drive, the database engine triggers a run-time error. At this point, if you use CommitTrans, an indeterminate number of operations are committed, but the remaining uncompleted operations are lost, and the operation has to be restarted. Using a Rollback method releases the transaction log and rolls back all operations in the transaction. ? Closing a clone Recordset within a pending transaction will cause an implicit Rollback operation. BeginTrans, CommitTrans, and RollbackTrans Methods These transaction methods manage transaction processing within a Connection object as follows: ? BeginTrans ? Begins a new transaction. ? CommitTrans ? Saves any changes and ends the current transaction. It may also start a new transaction. ? RollbackTrans ? Cancels any changes made during the current transaction and ends the transaction. It may also start a new transaction. Syntax level = object.BeginTrans() object.BeginTrans object.CommitTrans object.RollbackTrans Return Value BeginTrans can be called as a function that returns a Long variable indicating the nesting level of the transaction. Parameters object A Connection object. Connection Use these methods with a Connection object when you want to save or cancel a series of changes made to the source data as a single unit. For example, to transfer money between accounts, you subtract an amount from one and add the same amount to the other. If either update fails, the accounts no longer balance. Making these changes within an open transaction ensures that either all or none of the changes go through. Note Not all providers support transactions. Verify that the provider-defined property "Transaction DDL" appears in the Connection object's Properties collection, indicating that the provider supports transactions. If the provider does not support transactions, calling one of these methods will return an error. After you call the BeginTrans method, the provider will no longer instantaneously commit changes you make until you call CommitTrans or RollbackTrans to end the transaction. For providers that support nested transactions, calling the BeginTrans method within an open transaction starts a new, nested transaction. The return value indicates the level of nesting: a return value of "1" indicates you have opened a top-level transaction (that is, the transaction is not nested within another transaction), "2" indicates that you have opened a second-level transaction (a transaction nested within a top-level transaction), and so forth. Calling CommitTrans or RollbackTrans affects only the most recently opened transaction; you must close or roll back the current transaction before you can resolve any higher-level transactions. Calling the CommitTrans method saves changes made within an open transaction on the connection and ends the transaction. Calling the RollbackTrans method reverses any changes made within an open transaction and ends the transaction. Calling either method when there is no open transaction generates an error. Depending on the Connection object's Attributes property, calling either the CommitTrans or RollbackTrans methods may automatically start a new transaction. If the Attributes property is set to adXactCommitRetaining, the provider automatically starts a new transaction after a CommitTrans call. If the Attributes property is set to adXactAbortRetaining, the provider automatically starts a new transaction after a RollbackTrans call. At 09:04 AM 3/16/2004 -0600, you wrote: >Date: Tue, 16 Mar 2004 09:11:12 -0500 >From: "Jim Dettman" >Subject: RE: [AccessD] Transaction in MS-Access INFO REQUIRED >To: "Access Developers discussion and problem solving" > >Message-ID: >Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" > >Sander/John, > > Actually, to be a little more specific, there is no rollback/forward >capability with JET as the database engine, but if you use Access with MSDE >or SQL Server, then you pick that up. > >Jim Dettman >Online Computer Services of WNY, Inc. >(315) 699-3443 >jimdettman at earthlink.net -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Mail - More reliable, more storage, less spam From accessd667 at yahoo.com Wed Mar 17 01:51:08 2004 From: accessd667 at yahoo.com (S D) Date: Tue, 16 Mar 2004 23:51:08 -0800 (PST) Subject: [AccessD] OT: Interfacing => Datamodel Message-ID: <20040317075108.65241.qmail@web61109.mail.yahoo.com> Hi group, I need some info regarding interfacing (messages between 2 parties) not interfaces in VB , C++, etc.!! Could you please comment on this: Process: We receive and send interfaces (textfiles) with a specific layout. There are about 100 types of different messages. About 50 incoming and 50 outgoing. I've build a datamodel like this: Importing files: 1 table stores the data of the incoming file: (tblRawData) Fields: ID FileName MessageID (wich type of message is it?) MessageData Date Time 1 table has lay-out information regarding all messages: (tblMessageLayout) MessageID (Message Type) FieldName (different data fields) StartPosition (at what position is the data for the field stored) EndPosition (at what position is the data for the field stored) Mandatory (Is this a mandatory field?) 1 table with the layout as stored in the table above for every Message Type. (tblMessageX) To store the data of the interface file. I would have 100 of these tables Example: MessageType 10 has the following fields: Field StartPosition EndPosition Mandatory | Example data ID 1 8 YES | 12345678 CustID 9 15 YES | 100235 Street 16 35 NO | KennedyLane Housenr 36 38 NO | 15 etc etc The interface could look like this: 12345678100235KennedyLane15 12345677100266St.Anna 6 12345645100322blablabla 10 I want to store every line in the table tblRawData. After that I use the tblMessageLayout to export the data in tblRawData to tblMessage10 The table tblMessageLayout has (for Message 10) the following data: MessageID FieldName StartPosition EndPosition Mandatory 10 ID 1 8 Y 10 CustID 9 15 Y 10 Street 16 35 N etc Could this approach work? What didn't I think of? What are known traps for interfacing? TIA Sander Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Mail - More reliable, more storage, less spam From gustav at cactus.dk Wed Mar 17 03:14:32 2004 From: gustav at cactus.dk (Gustav Brock) Date: Wed, 17 Mar 2004 10:14:32 +0100 Subject: [AccessD] Re: [Private] Framework Discussion - Dependent Obje cts In-Reply-To: <2F8793082E00D4119A1700B0D0216BF802227981@main2.marlow.com> References: <2F8793082E00D4119A1700B0D0216BF802227981@main2.marlow.com> Message-ID: <485194258.20040317101432@cactus.dk> Hi Drew Yes, that makes sense to me, though I don't have any tools to program dlls. I have some very general and well proven functions which I simply keep collected in some modules which I copy-paste into a new project as needed - not very fancy, I know, but it works. /gustav > I'm in the same situation as you. I find that building a 'framework' isn't > worth the effort, because I have to develop very diverse GUI's. It's not a > matter of re-using features, it's a matter of building specific features to > handle the task at hand. > At my full time job, however, I have found that one of the best practices I > can stick too, is to develop applications as 'stand-alone' objects, yet > leave room for interaction. So if I develop a library application for our > Drafting department, and later I develop a modeling package for the > engineers, if I need access to the drafting library, I can just 'reference' > the drafting department's .dll's. Makes life a lot easier. To me, that's > what I call a framework. It's not a generic thing from a functionality > standpoint, but more of a generic thing from a usability standpoint. > Make sense? From gustav at cactus.dk Wed Mar 17 03:04:49 2004 From: gustav at cactus.dk (Gustav Brock) Date: Wed, 17 Mar 2004 10:04:49 +0100 Subject: [AccessD] FMS Total Access Memo Question In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <1594611320.20040317100449@cactus.dk> Hi Terri OK, in that case it looks more like an Access-Word programming task where the clipboard-bookmark "trick" must be the last resort. I avoid Word if at all possible but other listers may be able to help you as it does require coding skills at some level. By the way, do you really need Word? Can't you create a report in Access? The FMS control should be able to be included in a report as well; if not - if the FMS control produces pure rtf - the Richtext ocx could be used. /gustav > The Total Access Memo feature is a Wordpad clone for all intents and purposes. I probably misrepresented what they state in the FAQs, but what you have to do is copy the memo field to the Windows > Clipboard and then paste from that to the bookmark in the Word document. The code for some of that is at this link: http://www.fmsinc.com/faqs/tamemo.htm#Clipboard > Here's more info from their message board: "For the Bookmark trick, you can also copy the contents to the clipboard and work with an open object (the MS Word Document with bookmarks) directly. In > other words, programamtically control the MS Word document by finding the bookmark and pasting the copied text directly into the bookmark instead of exporting to a file, then importing that file > for the bookmark." > My problem is that I don't know how to do this and could use an example if someone had one. I already have a Word template set up with bookmarks that is functional with the current memo fields > that I want to change to TAM formatted fields, but my programming skills are minimal and I don't understand exactly how to approach this. > I just don't ever get to spend very much time on database design and programming to develop a sound understanding of how things function. It's not my main job - it's my way of putting something > together that is more efficient than what we currently have and our IS team does not believe in Access nor has the time to devote to developing applications that I need. > Thanks for your response, if you can provide some further assistance - that would be great. > Terri Jarus > Director, Contract Support Services > jarus at amerinet-gpo.com > 314-542-1902 >>>> gustav at cactus.dk 03/16/04 06:51AM >>> > Hi Terri >> There are a lot of memo fields that might need special formatting - >> bolding, italics, bullets, etc. When I looked into using the >> richtext ocx, you had to set up buttons for each formatting need. > Yes, for a client I have Normal, Bold, Italic, and Underline - that's > all they need. Of course, if you need more elaborate formatting you'll > soon find yourself designing a WordPad clone. By the way, both the ocx > and WordPad depends on the same richtex dll. >> The issue would still be the same since the richtext feature is an >> ActiveX control and that does not translate to Word - unless you can >> tell me how to do that. > There's nothing to do ... every memo field is an RTF document on its > own and the control even has methods for reading and writing the > content to a file. >> That's FMS' pat answer - ActiveX controls don't translate over to Word. > I don't know what FMS is talking about here. Again, there is nothing > to translate - Word eats RTF files for lunch. > /gustav >> Terri Jarus >> Director, Contract Support Services >> jarus at amerinet-gpo.com >> 314-542-1902 >>>>> gustav at cactus.dk 03/16/04 05:43AM >>> >> Hi Terri >> Well, if all you need is some simple formatting, the MS richtext ocx will >> do if you add some buttons and associated code. >> /gustav >>> Is anybody using this software? I purchased it a few weeks ago and I'm running into some issues of which I was unaware. >>> My key reason for getting this software was to have the ability to format memo fields and then export them to Word. However, I was unaware of the difficulty in doing this. >>> Is there some other 3rd party software that allows this functionality? >>> Thanks for any hints, tips or advice. >>> Terri Jarus >>> Director, Contract Support Services >>> jarus at amerinet-gpo.com >>> 314-542-1902 From gustav at cactus.dk Wed Mar 17 03:45:07 2004 From: gustav at cactus.dk (Gustav Brock) Date: Wed, 17 Mar 2004 10:45:07 +0100 Subject: [AccessD] Short Date Input Mask question In-Reply-To: <000001c40ba8$a486de90$6501a8c0@rock> References: <000001c40ba8$a486de90$6501a8c0@rock> Message-ID: <527028907.20040317104507@cactus.dk> Hi Arthur It's not a shortcoming. Input masks are called this as their purpose is to force the user to follow an input sequence - not to type "something" that can be interpreted as a date string. As Bryan has stated, one of the features of Access is that it does a pretty good job of transferring "something" typed in a textbox into a full date string. As such, it can assume a default year; could Access also assume a default month (so "20" would turn into "2004-03-20") we would approach Paradise. Having said that, I once used input masks for entry of time on the format hh:nn where the user can either tab into the textbox or click at some arbitrary position in it and type ahead while preserving default values for all digits. As you all know, input must be limited to 0-2, 0-9 OR 0-4, 0-5 for the first three positions - not an easy task, but it can be done. The inputmask helps as it allows you to set the start and length of the selection no matter what the user has typed or how he/she is editing. /gustav > The standard short date input mask (99/99/0000;0;_) has a shortcoming > that I hate: you have to type 04/04/04 to get April 4th 2004. The year > handling is nice but the month and day suck. The mask won't let you type > 4/4/04. Is there an alternative mask that will respond intelligently to > such input? Or should I instead just remove all the input masks from all > the date fields? > TIA, > Arthur From jarus at amerinet-gpo.com Wed Mar 17 06:23:13 2004 From: jarus at amerinet-gpo.com (Terri Jarus) Date: Wed, 17 Mar 2004 06:23:13 -0600 Subject: [AccessD] FMS Total Access Memo Question Message-ID: The other alternative would be to use the Access report and I'm looking into that. The document that we create is somewhat intense - has a lot of text blobs in it and Word has been working just fine - with the exception that users could not format their text within Access, so someone would have to go into the Word document and dress it up. If I keep hammering at it, I'll come up with a solution - I'm just a little pressed to get this done within a month and was looking for someone who had already done this and could get me running along. Thanks again. Terri Jarus Director, Contract Support Services jarus at amerinet-gpo.com 314-542-1902 >>> gustav at cactus.dk 03/17/04 03:04AM >>> Hi Terri OK, in that case it looks more like an Access-Word programming task where the clipboard-bookmark "trick" must be the last resort. I avoid Word if at all possible but other listers may be able to help you as it does require coding skills at some level. By the way, do you really need Word? Can't you create a report in Access? The FMS control should be able to be included in a report as well; if not - if the FMS control produces pure rtf - the Richtext ocx could be used. /gustav > The Total Access Memo feature is a Wordpad clone for all intents and purposes. I probably misrepresented what they state in the FAQs, but what you have to do is copy the memo field to the Windows > Clipboard and then paste from that to the bookmark in the Word document. The code for some of that is at this link: http://www.fmsinc.com/faqs/tamemo.htm#Clipboard > Here's more info from their message board: "For the Bookmark trick, you can also copy the contents to the clipboard and work with an open object (the MS Word Document with bookmarks) directly. In > other words, programamtically control the MS Word document by finding the bookmark and pasting the copied text directly into the bookmark instead of exporting to a file, then importing that file > for the bookmark." > My problem is that I don't know how to do this and could use an example if someone had one. I already have a Word template set up with bookmarks that is functional with the current memo fields > that I want to change to TAM formatted fields, but my programming skills are minimal and I don't understand exactly how to approach this. > I just don't ever get to spend very much time on database design and programming to develop a sound understanding of how things function. It's not my main job - it's my way of putting something > together that is more efficient than what we currently have and our IS team does not believe in Access nor has the time to devote to developing applications that I need. > Thanks for your response, if you can provide some further assistance - that would be great. > Terri Jarus > Director, Contract Support Services > jarus at amerinet-gpo.com > 314-542-1902 >>>> gustav at cactus.dk 03/16/04 06:51AM >>> > Hi Terri >> There are a lot of memo fields that might need special formatting - >> bolding, italics, bullets, etc. When I looked into using the >> richtext ocx, you had to set up buttons for each formatting need. > Yes, for a client I have Normal, Bold, Italic, and Underline - that's > all they need. Of course, if you need more elaborate formatting you'll > soon find yourself designing a WordPad clone. By the way, both the ocx > and WordPad depends on the same richtex dll. >> The issue would still be the same since the richtext feature is an >> ActiveX control and that does not translate to Word - unless you can >> tell me how to do that. > There's nothing to do ... every memo field is an RTF document on its > own and the control even has methods for reading and writing the > content to a file. >> That's FMS' pat answer - ActiveX controls don't translate over to Word. > I don't know what FMS is talking about here. Again, there is nothing > to translate - Word eats RTF files for lunch. > /gustav >> Terri Jarus >> Director, Contract Support Services >> jarus at amerinet-gpo.com >> 314-542-1902 >>>>> gustav at cactus.dk 03/16/04 05:43AM >>> >> Hi Terri >> Well, if all you need is some simple formatting, the MS richtext ocx will >> do if you add some buttons and associated code. >> /gustav >>> Is anybody using this software? I purchased it a few weeks ago and I'm running into some issues of which I was unaware. >>> My key reason for getting this software was to have the ability to format memo fields and then export them to Word. However, I was unaware of the difficulty in doing this. >>> Is there some other 3rd party software that allows this functionality? >>> Thanks for any hints, tips or advice. >>> Terri Jarus >>> Director, Contract Support Services >>> jarus at amerinet-gpo.com >>> 314-542-1902 -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com --------------------------------------------------------------------------- This email and any files transmitted with it are confidential and intended solely for the use of the individuals or entities to whom they are addressed. If you have received this email in error please return it to the sender, and erase any copies thereof. Copyright 2004 Amerinet 1nc. From jarus at amerinet-gpo.com Wed Mar 17 06:24:27 2004 From: jarus at amerinet-gpo.com (Terri Jarus) Date: Wed, 17 Mar 2004 06:24:27 -0600 Subject: [AccessD] FMS Total Access Memo Question Message-ID: It's come up several times on the FMS forum and the answer from FMS is always the same. I would assume these users got it worked out but no one answered my post in the forum when I asked for some specific examples. Terri Jarus Director, Contract Support Services jarus at amerinet-gpo.com 314-542-1902 >>> john at winhaven.net 03/16/04 06:16PM >>> Terri, Have you discussed this issue on the FMS forums? John B. -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Terri Jarus Sent: Tuesday, March 16, 2004 3:36 PM To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: Re: [AccessD] FMS Total Access Memo Question The Total Access Memo feature is a Wordpad clone for all intents and purposes. I probably misrepresented what they state in the FAQs, but what you have to do is copy the memo field to the Windows Clipboard and then paste from that to the bookmark in the Word document. The code for some of that is at this link: http://www.fmsinc.com/faqs/tamemo.htm#Clipboard Here's more info from their message board: "For the Bookmark trick, you can also copy the contents to the clipboard and work with an open object (the MS Word Document with bookmarks) directly. In other words, programamtically control the MS Word document by finding the bookmark and pasting the copied text directly into the bookmark instead of exporting to a file, then importing that file for the bookmark." My problem is that I don't know how to do this and could use an example if someone had one. I already have a Word template set up with bookmarks that is functional with the current memo fields that I want to change to TAM formatted fields, but my programming skills are minimal and I don't understand exactly how to approach this. I just don't ever get to spend very much time on database design and programming to develop a sound understanding of how things function. It's not my main job - it's my way of putting something together that is more efficient than what we currently have and our IS team does not believe in Access nor has the time to devote to developing applications that I need. Thanks for your response, if you can provide some further assistance - that would be great. Terri Jarus Director, Contract Support Services jarus at amerinet-gpo.com 314-542-1902 >>> gustav at cactus.dk 03/16/04 06:51AM >>> Hi Terri > There are a lot of memo fields that might need special formatting - > bolding, italics, bullets, etc. When I looked into using the > richtext ocx, you had to set up buttons for each formatting need. Yes, for a client I have Normal, Bold, Italic, and Underline - that's all they need. Of course, if you need more elaborate formatting you'll soon find yourself designing a WordPad clone. By the way, both the ocx and WordPad depends on the same richtex dll. > The issue would still be the same since the richtext feature is an > ActiveX control and that does not translate to Word - unless you can > tell me how to do that. There's nothing to do ... every memo field is an RTF document on its own and the control even has methods for reading and writing the content to a file. > That's FMS' pat answer - ActiveX controls don't translate over to Word. I don't know what FMS is talking about here. Again, there is nothing to translate - Word eats RTF files for lunch. /gustav > Terri Jarus > Director, Contract Support Services > jarus at amerinet-gpo.com > 314-542-1902 >>>> gustav at cactus.dk 03/16/04 05:43AM >>> > Hi Terri > Well, if all you need is some simple formatting, the MS richtext ocx will > do if you add some buttons and associated code. > /gustav >> Is anybody using this software? I purchased it a few weeks ago and I'm running into some issues of which I was unaware. >> My key reason for getting this software was to have the ability to format memo fields and then export them to Word. However, I was unaware of the difficulty in doing this. >> Is there some other 3rd party software that allows this functionality? >> Thanks for any hints, tips or advice. >> Terri Jarus >> Director, Contract Support Services >> jarus at amerinet-gpo.com >> 314-542-1902 -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com --------------------------------------------------------------------------- This email and any files transmitted with it are confidential and intended solely for the use of the individuals or entities to whom they are addressed. If you have received this email in error please return it to the sender, and erase any copies thereof. Copyright 2004 Amerinet 1nc. -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From adtp at touchtelindia.net Wed Mar 17 07:11:43 2004 From: adtp at touchtelindia.net (A.D.Tejpal) Date: Wed, 17 Mar 2004 18:41:43 +0530 Subject: [AccessD] Short Date Input Mask question References: <000001c40ba8$a486de90$6501a8c0@rock> <527028907.20040317104507@cactus.dk> Message-ID: <009501c40c21$7af0c4f0$c81e65cb@winxp> Arthur, Key strokes for date fields could be minimized by setting an input mask incorporating pre-filled default month & year. If it could be of any help, you could look at my sample db named InputMask_dynamic at Rogers Access Library (other developers section) - http://www.rogersaccesslibrary.com Amongst other things (e.g. phone nos etc.), it demonstrates input mask for date field, with desired month & year pre-filled. It may be mentioned that the option is not confined merely to the current month & year (which of course is the default option when the data entry form opens). The user can set any other desired values for either. Regards, A.D.Tejpal ----- Original Message ----- From: Gustav Brock To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Sent: Wednesday, March 17, 2004 15:15 Subject: Re: [AccessD] Short Date Input Mask question Hi Arthur It's not a shortcoming. Input masks are called this as their purpose is to force the user to follow an input sequence - not to type "something" that can be interpreted as a date string. As Bryan has stated, one of the features of Access is that it does a pretty good job of transferring "something" typed in a textbox into a full date string. As such, it can assume a default year; could Access also assume a default month (so "20" would turn into "2004-03-20") we would approach Paradise. Having said that, I once used input masks for entry of time on the format hh:nn where the user can either tab into the textbox or click at some arbitrary position in it and type ahead while preserving default values for all digits. As you all know, input must be limited to 0-2, 0-9 OR 0-4, 0-5 for the first three positions - not an easy task, but it can be done. The inputmask helps as it allows you to set the start and length of the selection no matter what the user has typed or how he/she is editing. /gustav > The standard short date input mask (99/99/0000;0;_) has a shortcoming > that I hate: you have to type 04/04/04 to get April 4th 2004. The year > handling is nice but the month and day suck. The mask won't let you type > 4/4/04. Is there an alternative mask that will respond intelligently to > such input? Or should I instead just remove all the input masks from all > the date fields? > TIA, > Arthur From Jdemarco at hudsonhealthplan.org Wed Mar 17 07:29:01 2004 From: Jdemarco at hudsonhealthplan.org (Jim DeMarco) Date: Wed, 17 Mar 2004 08:29:01 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Tracking Outlook message arrival Message-ID: <22F1CCD5171D17419CB37FEEE09D5F9902E80024@TTNEXCHSRV1.hshhp.com> List, We had a request to place Outlook mail items in an MDB as they arrived at a help desk mail account (Exchange). Our developer put code in the Outlook NewMail event to grab the fields we want and put them in the MDB. Problem is this method requires the e-mail account be open (running on a PC) and the user(s) don't want a PC just to run this app. Is there a way to monitor an e-mail account or hook into Exchange to grab this account's new mail as it hits the Inbox without running through Outlook? Outlook VBA, VB, or Access 97 solutions are all viable for us. TIA, Jim DeMarco Director Application Development Hudson Health Plan *********************************************************************************** "This electronic message is intended to be for the use only of the named recipient, and may contain information from Hudson Health Plan (HHP) that is confidential or privileged. If you are not the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any disclosure, copying, distribution or use of the contents of this message is strictly prohibited. If you have received this message in error or are not the named recipient, please notify us immediately, either by contacting the sender at the electronic mail address noted above or calling HHP at (914) 631-1611. If you are not the intended recipient, please do not forward this email to anyone, and delete and destroy all copies of this message. Thank You". *********************************************************************************** From wdhindman at bellsouth.net Wed Mar 17 07:32:21 2004 From: wdhindman at bellsouth.net (William Hindman) Date: Wed, 17 Mar 2004 08:32:21 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Re: [Private] Framework Discussion - Dependent Obje cts References: <2F8793082E00D4119A1700B0D0216BF802227981@main2.marlow.com> <485194258.20040317101432@cactus.dk> Message-ID: <000c01c40c24$47006260$6101a8c0@dejpolsys> "some very general and well proven functions which I simply keep collected in some modules which I copy-paste into a new project as needed - not very fancy, I know, but it works." gustav ...me too :) ...I tried JC's framework a couple years ago and, for me, found myself putting as much or more effort into it as I was client apps ...but otoh banging around in his framework taught me "with events" coding and many other techniques that I can't imagine not using in every app today ...I'm clearly not nearly as disciplined about coding as JC, Jurgen, Shamil and some other gurus here are so I just make do with a template mdb much as you describe. :) William Hindman You know the world is upside down when Bill Clinton wins a Grammy and Janet Jackson is the subject of a government sex investigation. Argus Hamilton. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Gustav Brock" To: "Access Developers discussion and problem solving" Sent: Wednesday, March 17, 2004 4:14 AM Subject: Re: [AccessD] Re: [Private] Framework Discussion - Dependent Obje cts > Hi Drew > > Yes, that makes sense to me, though I don't have any tools to program > dlls. I have some very general and well proven functions which I > simply keep collected in some modules which I copy-paste into a new > project as needed - not very fancy, I know, but it works. > > /gustav > > > I'm in the same situation as you. I find that building a 'framework' isn't > > worth the effort, because I have to develop very diverse GUI's. It's not a > > matter of re-using features, it's a matter of building specific features to > > handle the task at hand. > > > At my full time job, however, I have found that one of the best practices I > > can stick too, is to develop applications as 'stand-alone' objects, yet > > leave room for interaction. So if I develop a library application for our > > Drafting department, and later I develop a modeling package for the > > engineers, if I need access to the drafting library, I can just 'reference' > > the drafting department's .dll's. Makes life a lot easier. To me, that's > > what I call a framework. It's not a generic thing from a functionality > > standpoint, but more of a generic thing from a usability standpoint. > > > Make sense? > > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > From john at winhaven.net Wed Mar 17 08:09:48 2004 From: john at winhaven.net (John Bartow) Date: Wed, 17 Mar 2004 08:09:48 -0600 Subject: [AccessD] FMS Total Access Memo Question In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Terri, Just checking - in the past I've had good results working directly with FMS on any issues I've had. BTW Gustav is correct in that TAM can be used in the reports also. I have the 97 version and it has capabilities that you won't get with the MS-RTF control. Sorry I can't help more with TAM other these simple pointers. John B. -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Terri Jarus Sent: Wednesday, March 17, 2004 6:24 AM To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: RE: [AccessD] FMS Total Access Memo Question It's come up several times on the FMS forum and the answer from FMS is always the same. I would assume these users got it worked out but no one answered my post in the forum when I asked for some specific examples. Terri Jarus Director, Contract Support Services jarus at amerinet-gpo.com 314-542-1902 >>> john at winhaven.net 03/16/04 06:16PM >>> Terri, Have you discussed this issue on the FMS forums? John B. -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Terri Jarus Sent: Tuesday, March 16, 2004 3:36 PM To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: Re: [AccessD] FMS Total Access Memo Question The Total Access Memo feature is a Wordpad clone for all intents and purposes. I probably misrepresented what they state in the FAQs, but what you have to do is copy the memo field to the Windows Clipboard and then paste from that to the bookmark in the Word document. The code for some of that is at this link: http://www.fmsinc.com/faqs/tamemo.htm#Clipboard Here's more info from their message board: "For the Bookmark trick, you can also copy the contents to the clipboard and work with an open object (the MS Word Document with bookmarks) directly. In other words, programamtically control the MS Word document by finding the bookmark and pasting the copied text directly into the bookmark instead of exporting to a file, then importing that file for the bookmark." My problem is that I don't know how to do this and could use an example if someone had one. I already have a Word template set up with bookmarks that is functional with the current memo fields that I want to change to TAM formatted fields, but my programming skills are minimal and I don't understand exactly how to approach this. I just don't ever get to spend very much time on database design and programming to develop a sound understanding of how things function. It's not my main job - it's my way of putting something together that is more efficient than what we currently have and our IS team does not believe in Access nor has the time to devote to developing applications that I need. Thanks for your response, if you can provide some further assistance - that would be great. Terri Jarus Director, Contract Support Services jarus at amerinet-gpo.com 314-542-1902 >>> gustav at cactus.dk 03/16/04 06:51AM >>> Hi Terri > There are a lot of memo fields that might need special formatting - > bolding, italics, bullets, etc. When I looked into using the > richtext ocx, you had to set up buttons for each formatting need. Yes, for a client I have Normal, Bold, Italic, and Underline - that's all they need. Of course, if you need more elaborate formatting you'll soon find yourself designing a WordPad clone. By the way, both the ocx and WordPad depends on the same richtex dll. > The issue would still be the same since the richtext feature is an > ActiveX control and that does not translate to Word - unless you can > tell me how to do that. There's nothing to do ... every memo field is an RTF document on its own and the control even has methods for reading and writing the content to a file. > That's FMS' pat answer - ActiveX controls don't translate over to Word. I don't know what FMS is talking about here. Again, there is nothing to translate - Word eats RTF files for lunch. /gustav > Terri Jarus > Director, Contract Support Services > jarus at amerinet-gpo.com > 314-542-1902 >>>> gustav at cactus.dk 03/16/04 05:43AM >>> > Hi Terri > Well, if all you need is some simple formatting, the MS richtext ocx will > do if you add some buttons and associated code. > /gustav >> Is anybody using this software? I purchased it a few weeks ago and I'm running into some issues of which I was unaware. >> My key reason for getting this software was to have the ability to format memo fields and then export them to Word. However, I was unaware of the difficulty in doing this. >> Is there some other 3rd party software that allows this functionality? >> Thanks for any hints, tips or advice. >> Terri Jarus >> Director, Contract Support Services >> jarus at amerinet-gpo.com >> 314-542-1902 -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com --------------------------------------------------------------------------- This email and any files transmitted with it are confidential and intended solely for the use of the individuals or entities to whom they are addressed. If you have received this email in error please return it to the sender, and erase any copies thereof. Copyright 2004 Amerinet 1nc. -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From Bryan_Carbonnell at cbc.ca Wed Mar 17 08:12:02 2004 From: Bryan_Carbonnell at cbc.ca (Bryan Carbonnell) Date: Wed, 17 Mar 2004 09:12:02 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Short Date Input Mask question Message-ID: Well, here is a start for the tables Arthur. Can't help wiht the forms though. First off, set a reference to DAO and add the following sub. It will get rid of the InputMasks in all the tables. I only tested it against local tables, so linked tables may or may not work. IF these changes are going to be distributed to and end user's site and you can't get at the "working" data, you may want to have a look at the BEU. Anyway, here is the code: Sub ClearInputMask() Dim db As DAO.Database Dim tdf As DAO.TableDef Dim fld As DAO.Field Set db = CurrentDb() 'Looop through all the tabledefs For Each tdf In db.TableDefs 'loop through all the fields in the tabledef If Left$(tdf.Name, 4) <> "Msys" Then For Each fld In tdf.Fields 'See if the field is a date field If fld.Type = dbDate Then 'A date/time field 'Ignore errors, because one will be generated if there ' is no input mask defined On Error Resume Next fld.Properties.Delete "InputMask" End If Next End If Next Set fld = Nothing Set tdf = Nothing Set db = Nothing End Sub Bryan Carbonnell bryan_carbonnell at cbc.ca >>> artful at rogers.com 17-Mar-04 1:21:42 AM >>> So the question becomes, how can I null all the date-field masks that I embedded so carefully, in both the numerous tables and all the forms? I want to walk the list of tables and wipe out the masks for all date fields, then do the same to all the forms. There are way too many to do by hand. I tried running Rick Fisher's Find and Replace to do this and got numerous error messages saying "User defined properties do not support a null value". So I replaced the masks with " " and although Rick's tool warned me that I was inserting a trailing space, it worked perfectly. Kewl! Arthur -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Stuart McLachlan Sent: Tuesday, March 16, 2004 2:06 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problemsolving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Short Date Input Mask question On 16 Mar 2004 at 14:47, Arthur Fuller wrote: > The standard short date input mask (99/99/0000;0;_) has a shortcoming > that I hate: you have to type 04/04/04 to get April 4th 2004. The year > handling is nice but the month and day suck. The mask won't let you > type 4/4/04. Is there an alternative mask that will respond > intelligently to such input? Or should I instead just remove all the > input masks from all the date fields? > I gave up using date input masks long ago, they are a PITA. A lot of date entry tends to be for the current year and it's so simple to just enter 4/4 using the numieric keypad. -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From Lambert.Heenan at AIG.com Wed Mar 17 08:21:45 2004 From: Lambert.Heenan at AIG.com (Heenan, Lambert) Date: Wed, 17 Mar 2004 09:21:45 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Short Date Input Mask question Message-ID: <8B98F8EA48F8BA47A2F24E0D0AF40CF407AD7FBE@xlivmbx12.aig.com> My solution to date entry is simple - I never let user's type in a date. They always pick the date from a simple calendar form (though I don't use the MS Calendar control). Click on a date field and up pops the date picker. While this would not be suitable, perhaps, in applications where massive numbers of dates need to be entered, I find it works just fine for me. Lambert > -----Original Message----- > From: Arthur Fuller [SMTP:artful at rogers.com] > Sent: Tuesday, March 16, 2004 5:47 PM > To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' > Subject: [AccessD] Short Date Input Mask question > > The standard short date input mask (99/99/0000;0;_) has a shortcoming > that I hate: you have to type 04/04/04 to get April 4th 2004. The year > handling is nice but the month and day suck. The mask won't let you type > 4/4/04. Is there an alternative mask that will respond intelligently to > such input? Or should I instead just remove all the input masks from all > the date fields? > > TIA, > Arthur > > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From michael.broesdorf at web.de Wed Mar 17 08:39:00 2004 From: michael.broesdorf at web.de (=?iso-8859-1?Q?Michael_Br=F6sdorf?=) Date: Wed, 17 Mar 2004 15:39:00 +0100 Subject: [AccessD] Slightly OT: Access/Office 2003 with Multilingual User Pack on Terminal Server/Citrix Metaframe In-Reply-To: <8B98F8EA48F8BA47A2F24E0D0AF40CF407AD7FBE@xlivmbx12.aig.com> Message-ID: Dear group, one of my customers thinks it would be a good idea to install Office 2003 along with a Multilingual User Pack on a Citrix Metaframe server to have localized (that is English and German) user interfaces for all Office applications. Unfortunately it is pretty hard to find any related info. Does anyone have experience with such a configuration? TIA, Michael From Bryan_Carbonnell at cbc.ca Wed Mar 17 08:51:51 2004 From: Bryan_Carbonnell at cbc.ca (Bryan Carbonnell) Date: Wed, 17 Mar 2004 09:51:51 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Short Date Input Mask question Message-ID: Lambert, It may work fine for you, but does it work for your users? Do you force them to use the mouse to select the date, or can they do everything they need to from the keyboard? The only reason I bring this up is that I have had RSI from moving between the mouse and keyboard for data entry too much. It got to the point where by 10 AM I could not feel my little finger and half of my lower arm becaude of it. As soon as I got one application that I used on a regular basis more keyboard friendly it helped. Just try to keep that in mind. I know I always do. I let users use the mouse or enter with the keyboard. Their choice. Bryan Carbonnell bryan_carbonnell at cbc.ca >>> Lambert.Heenan at AIG.com 17-Mar-04 9:21:45 AM >>> My solution to date entry is simple - I never let user's type in a date. They always pick the date from a simple calendar form (though I don't use the MS Calendar control). Click on a date field and up pops the date picker. While this would not be suitable, perhaps, in applications where massive numbers of dates need to be entered, I find it works just fine for me. Lambert From rl_stewart at highstream.net Wed Mar 17 09:01:06 2004 From: rl_stewart at highstream.net (Robert L. Stewart) Date: Wed, 17 Mar 2004 09:01:06 -0600 Subject: [AccessD] Re: Short Date Input Mask question In-Reply-To: <200403170721.i2H7LmM07690@databaseadvisors.com> Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20040317083331.029dfc30@pop3.highstream.net> John, Ignore those that do not benefit or want to learn. Personally, I have read and re-read your posts, which I have compiled into a single document that I keep adding to. As I learn more, I will add my notes to it. As to a framework, they are great. And, you do have the right idea. With all the so called developers that claim Access as a development tool, we need to distinguish ourselves from them with as wide a gap as possible. Extending the capabilities of Access is just one of the ways, we as PROFESSIONAL developers can do this. A good example of this is the C programmers that a company here in Houston hired to do Access development. A friend of mine spent the last 3+ months debugging what they had written. An example of the poor programming technique (no matter the language) was the calling of a function to see what the country they were operating in was between 20 and 30 times within a form instead of setting a variable on open of the program. The country did not change after opening the program. :-) Yet, they were offended by the changes that were suggested by the real Access professional, because of their superior programming knowledge since they were C programmers. And, one of their other problems was that she was a woman. They were not from this country. Robert At 01:21 AM 3/17/2004 -0600, you wrote: >Date: Wed, 17 Mar 2004 10:37:30 +1030 >From: "Haslett, Andrew" >Subject: RE: [AccessD] Short Date Input Mask question >To: "'Access Developers discussion and problem solving'" > >Message-ID: > >Content-Type: text/plain > >(PS. I personally have found it quite useful and its been a handy refresher >in terms of withevents, class design etc. ) From rbgajewski at adelphia.net Wed Mar 17 09:11:27 2004 From: rbgajewski at adelphia.net (Bob Gajewski) Date: Wed, 17 Mar 2004 10:11:27 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Slightly OT: Office 2003 / Photo Editor In-Reply-To: Message-ID: OT / NO ARCHIVE Dear List: It seems that more and more of us are making the jump to Office 2003. Check out this article from John Dvorak on an important issue regarding Microsoft's newest tactic: ERASING A PROGRAM THAT IT DOESN'T THINK YOU NEED/WANT. http://www.pcmag.com/article2/0,1759,1549285,00.asp So, before you upgrade, you might want to be sure and have your old Office CD handy, so that you can re-install Photo Editor. I apologize if this is too far OT to be here. Regards, Bob Gajewski -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Michael Br?sdorf Sent: Wednesday, March 17, 2004 09:39 To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: [AccessD] Slightly OT: Access/Office 2003 with Multilingual UserPack on Terminal Server/Citrix Metaframe Dear group, one of my customers thinks it would be a good idea to install Office 2003 along with a Multilingual User Pack on a Citrix Metaframe server to have localized (that is English and German) user interfaces for all Office applications. Unfortunately it is pretty hard to find any related info. Does anyone have experience with such a configuration? TIA, Michael -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From michael.broesdorf at web.de Wed Mar 17 09:39:24 2004 From: michael.broesdorf at web.de (=?iso-8859-1?Q?Michael_Br=F6sdorf?=) Date: Wed, 17 Mar 2004 16:39:24 +0100 Subject: AW: [AccessD] Slightly OT: Office 2003 / Photo Editor In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Hm, I was looking for it, too! Too bad they removed it! Michael -----Urspr?ngliche Nachricht----- Von: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]Im Auftrag von Bob Gajewski Gesendet: Mittwoch, 17. M?rz 2004 16:11 An: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Betreff: [AccessD] Slightly OT: Office 2003 / Photo Editor OT / NO ARCHIVE Dear List: It seems that more and more of us are making the jump to Office 2003. Check out this article from John Dvorak on an important issue regarding Microsoft's newest tactic: ERASING A PROGRAM THAT IT DOESN'T THINK YOU NEED/WANT. http://www.pcmag.com/article2/0,1759,1549285,00.asp So, before you upgrade, you might want to be sure and have your old Office CD handy, so that you can re-install Photo Editor. I apologize if this is too far OT to be here. Regards, Bob Gajewski -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Michael Br?sdorf Sent: Wednesday, March 17, 2004 09:39 To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: [AccessD] Slightly OT: Access/Office 2003 with Multilingual UserPack on Terminal Server/Citrix Metaframe Dear group, one of my customers thinks it would be a good idea to install Office 2003 along with a Multilingual User Pack on a Citrix Metaframe server to have localized (that is English and German) user interfaces for all Office applications. Unfortunately it is pretty hard to find any related info. Does anyone have experience with such a configuration? TIA, Michael -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From ssharkins at bellsouth.net Wed Mar 17 09:43:18 2004 From: ssharkins at bellsouth.net (Susan Harkins) Date: Wed, 17 Mar 2004 10:43:18 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Slightly OT: Office 2003 / Photo Editor In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <20040317154319.KFNI18468.imf24aec.mail.bellsouth.net@SUSANONE> If you do a full install of O2K3, you get MS Picture Editor in the Office Tools group. He probably did a default install Susan H. OT / NO ARCHIVE Dear List: It seems that more and more of us are making the jump to Office 2003. Check out this article from John Dvorak on an important issue regarding Microsoft's newest tactic: ERASING A PROGRAM THAT IT DOESN'T THINK YOU NEED/WANT. http://www.pcmag.com/article2/0,1759,1549285,00.asp So, before you upgrade, you might want to be sure and have your old Office CD handy, so that you can re-install Photo Editor. I apologize if this is too far OT to be here. Regards, Bob Gajewski -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Michael Br?sdorf Sent: Wednesday, March 17, 2004 09:39 To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: [AccessD] Slightly OT: Access/Office 2003 with Multilingual UserPack on Terminal Server/Citrix Metaframe Dear group, one of my customers thinks it would be a good idea to install Office 2003 along with a Multilingual User Pack on a Citrix Metaframe server to have localized (that is English and German) user interfaces for all Office applications. Unfortunately it is pretty hard to find any related info. Does anyone have experience with such a configuration? TIA, Michael -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From Lambert.Heenan at AIG.com Wed Mar 17 09:52:20 2004 From: Lambert.Heenan at AIG.com (Heenan, Lambert) Date: Wed, 17 Mar 2004 10:52:20 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Short Date Input Mask question Message-ID: <8B98F8EA48F8BA47A2F24E0D0AF40CF407AD7FC3@xlivmbx12.aig.com> Bryan, Point taken. This was why I made the comment about mass data input. In point of fact it is possible, though a bit clunky, to select a date with the keyboard, and I should perhaps revisit the design on the form to make it easier to do so. RSI is a serious problem, and I sympathize with your for having to deal with it. However it's not confined to mouse use, indeed I remember it first being reported back in the 80's before mice very prevalent. In those days the blame was laid at the door of the extreme ease with which computer keyboards operated vs. manual typewriters. This allowed for very rapid keystrokes, which was thought to be the root cause of RSI. I also see people who have bizarre ideas about how they should position their keyboards and mice. In short there are lots of factors involved, and at the end of the day the user has to figure out the best way to use the d*mned machines. So, to reiterate, I think I'll take the time to redesign my date picker form to allow for better keyboard use of it. Lambert > -----Original Message----- > From: Bryan Carbonnell [SMTP:Bryan_Carbonnell at cbc.ca] > Sent: Wednesday, March 17, 2004 9:52 AM > To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com > Subject: RE: [AccessD] Short Date Input Mask question > > Lambert, > > It may work fine for you, but does it work for your users? Do you force > them to use the mouse to select the date, or can they do everything they > need to from the keyboard? > > The only reason I bring this up is that I have had RSI from moving > between the mouse and keyboard for data entry too much. It got to the > point where by 10 AM I could not feel my little finger and half of my > lower arm becaude of it. > > As soon as I got one application that I used on a regular basis more > keyboard friendly it helped. > > Just try to keep that in mind. I know I always do. I let users use the > mouse or enter with the keyboard. Their choice. > > Bryan Carbonnell > bryan_carbonnell at cbc.ca > > > >>> Lambert.Heenan at AIG.com 17-Mar-04 9:21:45 AM >>> > My solution to date entry is simple - I never let user's type in a > date. > They always pick the date from a simple calendar form (though I don't > use > the MS Calendar control). Click on a date field and up pops the date > picker. > While this would not be suitable, perhaps, in applications where > massive > numbers of dates need to be entered, I find it works just fine for me. > > Lambert > > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From rbgajewski at adelphia.net Wed Mar 17 09:54:41 2004 From: rbgajewski at adelphia.net (Bob Gajewski) Date: Wed, 17 Mar 2004 10:54:41 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Slightly OT: Office 2003 / Photo Editor In-Reply-To: <20040317154319.KFNI18468.imf24aec.mail.bellsouth.net@SUSANONE> Message-ID: Susan Interesting, because Microsoft itself acknowledges the situation: http://support.microsoft.com/default.aspx?kbid=817095 Thanks, Bob Gajewski -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Susan Harkins Sent: Wednesday, March 17, 2004 10:43 To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: [AccessD] Slightly OT: Office 2003 / Photo Editor If you do a full install of O2K3, you get MS Picture Editor in the Office Tools group. He probably did a default install Susan H. OT / NO ARCHIVE Dear List: It seems that more and more of us are making the jump to Office 2003. Check out this article from John Dvorak on an important issue regarding Microsoft's newest tactic: ERASING A PROGRAM THAT IT DOESN'T THINK YOU NEED/WANT. http://www.pcmag.com/article2/0,1759,1549285,00.asp So, before you upgrade, you might want to be sure and have your old Office CD handy, so that you can re-install Photo Editor. I apologize if this is too far OT to be here. Regards, Bob Gajewski -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Michael Br?sdorf Sent: Wednesday, March 17, 2004 09:39 To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: [AccessD] Slightly OT: Access/Office 2003 with Multilingual UserPack on Terminal Server/Citrix Metaframe Dear group, one of my customers thinks it would be a good idea to install Office 2003 along with a Multilingual User Pack on a Citrix Metaframe server to have localized (that is English and German) user interfaces for all Office applications. Unfortunately it is pretty hard to find any related info. Does anyone have experience with such a configuration? TIA, Michael -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From bchacc at san.rr.com Wed Mar 17 09:59:34 2004 From: bchacc at san.rr.com (Rocky Smolin - Beach Access Software) Date: Wed, 17 Mar 2004 07:59:34 -0800 Subject: [AccessD] Slightly OT: Office 2003 / Photo Editor References: <20040317154319.KFNI18468.imf24aec.mail.bellsouth.net@SUSANONE> Message-ID: <00ea01c40c38$d7870af0$6601a8c0@HAL9002> Is that Office Tools which comes with O2K3 or the Office Developer Tools? Rocky ----- Original Message ----- From: "Susan Harkins" To: "'Access Developers discussion and problem solving'" Sent: Wednesday, March 17, 2004 7:43 AM Subject: RE: [AccessD] Slightly OT: Office 2003 / Photo Editor > If you do a full install of O2K3, you get MS Picture Editor in the Office > Tools group. He probably did a default install > > Susan H. > > OT / NO ARCHIVE > > Dear List: > > It seems that more and more of us are making the jump to Office 2003. Check > out this article from John Dvorak on an important issue regarding > Microsoft's newest tactic: ERASING A PROGRAM THAT IT DOESN'T THINK YOU > NEED/WANT. > > http://www.pcmag.com/article2/0,1759,1549285,00.asp > > So, before you upgrade, you might want to be sure and have your old Office > CD handy, so that you can re-install Photo Editor. > > I apologize if this is too far OT to be here. > > Regards, > > Bob Gajewski > > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Michael Br?sdorf > Sent: Wednesday, March 17, 2004 09:39 > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: [AccessD] Slightly OT: Access/Office 2003 with Multilingual > UserPack on Terminal Server/Citrix Metaframe > > > Dear group, > > one of my customers thinks it would be a good idea to install Office 2003 > along with a Multilingual User Pack on a Citrix Metaframe server to have > localized (that is English and German) user interfaces for all Office > applications. Unfortunately it is pretty hard to find any related info. Does > anyone have experience with such a configuration? > > TIA, > > Michael > > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > From cfoust at infostatsystems.com Wed Mar 17 10:00:45 2004 From: cfoust at infostatsystems.com (Charlotte Foust) Date: Wed, 17 Mar 2004 08:00:45 -0800 Subject: [AccessD] Short Date Input Mask question Message-ID: We just format the display to medium date and let them enter the date according to their system settings. That satisfies both needs. If they just want to enter a month and day or month and year, we capture that as a string and convert it appropriately. Input masks for dates are problematic in an internationalized application. Charlotte Foust -----Original Message----- From: Heenan, Lambert [mailto:Lambert.Heenan at aig.com] Sent: Wednesday, March 17, 2004 6:22 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: [AccessD] Short Date Input Mask question My solution to date entry is simple - I never let user's type in a date. They always pick the date from a simple calendar form (though I don't use the MS Calendar control). Click on a date field and up pops the date picker. While this would not be suitable, perhaps, in applications where massive numbers of dates need to be entered, I find it works just fine for me. Lambert > -----Original Message----- > From: Arthur Fuller [SMTP:artful at rogers.com] > Sent: Tuesday, March 16, 2004 5:47 PM > To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' > Subject: [AccessD] Short Date Input Mask question > > The standard short date input mask (99/99/0000;0;_) has a shortcoming > that I hate: you have to type 04/04/04 to get April 4th 2004. The year > handling is nice but the month and day suck. The mask won't let you > type 4/4/04. Is there an alternative mask that will respond > intelligently to such input? Or should I instead just remove all the > input masks from all the date fields? > > TIA, > Arthur > > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From cfoust at infostatsystems.com Wed Mar 17 10:06:28 2004 From: cfoust at infostatsystems.com (Charlotte Foust) Date: Wed, 17 Mar 2004 08:06:28 -0800 Subject: [AccessD] Access 2003 Developer Edition? Message-ID: I don't think there is a "tools upgrade" price, Rocky. A developer license gives you the right to upgrade to Pro or Premium (I can't keep the versions straight) in 2003. I never saw an upgrade path to the VSTO package anywhere I looked. Developer gives you an upgrade path to Visual Studio.Net, I believe, but the VSTO is a separate package. Charlotte Foust -----Original Message----- From: Rocky Smolin - Beach Access Software [mailto:bchacc at san.rr.com] Sent: Tuesday, March 16, 2004 8:58 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access 2003 Developer Edition? Marty: A couple of weeks ago I was asking about deploying an Access product and trying to decide whether to go with Wise/Sagekey A2K script with an A2K mde. But I'd have to buy the A2K developer edition. as well as the Sagekey script. Now it appears, IIUC, that I could buy Office 2003 and the Office Developer Tools (I've got A97 Developer license so I could get the Tools upgrade price, I think), and use the Developer Tools packaging wizard. >From the article it appears that the Packaging Wizard is pretty good. >I didn't detect any of the 'it really stinks' kind of review of earlier Access packagers. Has you or anyone had any experience with it yet? Is it a reasonable alternative? It probably would have a longer life than going with an A2K solution. One requirement I see is that the target machine has to have W2K or WXP but that shouldn't be too much of a problem as time goes on. Regards, Rocky Smolin Beach Access Software http://www.e-z-mrp.com ----- Original Message ----- From: "MartyConnelly" To: "Access Developers discussion and problem solving" Sent: Monday, March 15, 2004 11:30 AM Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access 2003 Developer Edition? > The Access 2003 runtime ships with any version of Office 2003 that has > Access 2003, the license to redistribute solutions with the Access > runtime is available exclusively through the Access Developer > Extensions. The Access Developer Extensions include the Package Wizard > and other developer-oriented tools. The Package Wizard creates a > package based on an Access 2003 solution that users can install and > uninstall with the Microsoft Windows Installer. You can only acquire > the Access Developer Extensions by buying the "Visual Studio Tools > for the Microsoft Office System". > http://msdn.microsoft.com/vstudio/office > > > Packaging Access 2003 Solutions Rick Dobson > > http://msdn.microsoft.com/library/default.asp?url=/library/en-us/dnsmart03/html/sa03j8.asp > > Michael Br?sdorf wrote: > > >Hello, > > > >I noticed that there seems to no more Office 2003 Developers Edition. > >Is it > >still possible to create Run-Time applications with Access 2003? ` > >Michael > > > > > > > > -- > Marty Connelly > Victoria, B.C. > Canada > > > > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From ssharkins at bellsouth.net Wed Mar 17 10:07:41 2004 From: ssharkins at bellsouth.net (Susan Harkins) Date: Wed, 17 Mar 2004 11:07:41 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Slightly OT: Office 2003 / Photo Editor In-Reply-To: <00ea01c40c38$d7870af0$6601a8c0@HAL9002> Message-ID: <20040317160740.SBLH4640.imf23aec.mail.bellsouth.net@SUSANONE> Office 2003 Susan H. Is that Office Tools which comes with O2K3 or the Office Developer Tools? Rocky > If you do a full install of O2K3, you get MS Picture Editor in the Office > Tools group. He probably did a default install > > Susan H. > > OT / NO ARCHIVE > > Dear List: > > It seems that more and more of us are making the jump to Office 2003. Check > out this article from John Dvorak on an important issue regarding > Microsoft's newest tactic: ERASING A PROGRAM THAT IT DOESN'T THINK YOU > NEED/WANT. > > http://www.pcmag.com/article2/0,1759,1549285,00.asp > > So, before you upgrade, you might want to be sure and have your old Office > CD handy, so that you can re-install Photo Editor. > > I apologize if this is too far OT to be here. > > Regards, > > Bob Gajewski > > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Michael Br?sdorf > Sent: Wednesday, March 17, 2004 09:39 > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: [AccessD] Slightly OT: Access/Office 2003 with Multilingual > UserPack on Terminal Server/Citrix Metaframe > > > Dear group, > > one of my customers thinks it would be a good idea to install Office 2003 > along with a Multilingual User Pack on a Citrix Metaframe server to have > localized (that is English and German) user interfaces for all Office > applications. Unfortunately it is pretty hard to find any related info. Does > anyone have experience with such a configuration? > > TIA, > > Michael > > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From BBarabash at TappeConstruction.com Wed Mar 17 10:22:14 2004 From: BBarabash at TappeConstruction.com (Brett Barabash) Date: Wed, 17 Mar 2004 10:22:14 -0600 Subject: [AccessD] Short Date Input Mask question Message-ID: <426071E0B0A6D311B3C0006008B0AB23AFE41A@TAPPEEXCH01> I bet the data entry people love you! It may "work for you", but I'll bet that there are some users out there that feel otherwise. One of my biggest UI pet peeves is fields that disallow keyboard entry. One record or 1000 records, it's still annoying to move your hand off of the home row of your keyboard and click around to select a date. -----Original Message----- From: Heenan, Lambert [mailto:Lambert.Heenan at aig.com] Sent: Wednesday, March 17, 2004 8:22 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: [AccessD] Short Date Input Mask question My solution to date entry is simple - I never let user's type in a date. They always pick the date from a simple calendar form (though I don't use the MS Calendar control). Click on a date field and up pops the date picker. While this would not be suitable, perhaps, in applications where massive numbers of dates need to be entered, I find it works just fine for me. Lambert > -----Original Message----- > From: Arthur Fuller [SMTP:artful at rogers.com] > Sent: Tuesday, March 16, 2004 5:47 PM > To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' > Subject: [AccessD] Short Date Input Mask question > > The standard short date input mask (99/99/0000;0;_) has a shortcoming > that I hate: you have to type 04/04/04 to get April 4th 2004. The year > handling is nice but the month and day suck. The mask won't let you type > 4/4/04. Is there an alternative mask that will respond intelligently to > such input? Or should I instead just remove all the input masks from all > the date fields? > > TIA, > Arthur > > -- -------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- The information in this email may contain confidential information that is legally privileged. The information is only for the use of the intended recipient(s) named above. If you are not the intended recipient(s), you are hereby notified that any disclosure, copying, distribution, or the taking of any action in regard to the content of this fax is strictly prohibited. If transmission is incorrect, unclear, or incomplete, please notify the sender immediately. The authorized recipient(s) of this information is/are prohibited from disclosing this information to any other party and is/are required to destroy the information after its stated need has been fulfilled. Any views expressed in this message are those of the individual sender, except where the sender specifies and with authority, states them to be the views of Tappe Construction Co. This footer also confirms that this email message has been scanned for the presence of computer viruses.Scanning of this message and addition of this footer is performed by SurfControl E-mail Filter software in conjunction with virus detection software. From Lambert.Heenan at AIG.com Wed Mar 17 10:52:55 2004 From: Lambert.Heenan at AIG.com (Heenan, Lambert) Date: Wed, 17 Mar 2004 11:52:55 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Short Date Input Mask question Message-ID: <8B98F8EA48F8BA47A2F24E0D0AF40CF407AD7FC4@xlivmbx12.aig.com> Fortunately I do not have to develop apps. for data entry folks. I do however have to deal with people who still don't realize that almost every dialog box they ever see has a default button "clickable" with the Enter key, and that they can use "Y" and "N" to answer Yes/No dialogs etc. etc. Mousing around is a habit that is tough to break for some. Lambert > -----Original Message----- > From: Brett Barabash [SMTP:BBarabash at tappeconstruction.com] > Sent: Wednesday, March 17, 2004 11:22 AM > To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' > Subject: RE: [AccessD] Short Date Input Mask question > > I bet the data entry people love you! > > It may "work for you", but I'll bet that there are some users out there > that > feel otherwise. One of my biggest UI pet peeves is fields that disallow > keyboard entry. One record or 1000 records, it's still annoying to move > your hand off of the home row of your keyboard and click around to select > a > date. > > > -----Original Message----- > From: Heenan, Lambert [mailto:Lambert.Heenan at aig.com] > Sent: Wednesday, March 17, 2004 8:22 AM > To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' > Subject: RE: [AccessD] Short Date Input Mask question > > > My solution to date entry is simple - I never let user's type in a date. > They always pick the date from a simple calendar form (though I don't use > the MS Calendar control). Click on a date field and up pops the date > picker. > While this would not be suitable, perhaps, in applications where massive > numbers of dates need to be entered, I find it works just fine for me. > > Lambert > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: Arthur Fuller [SMTP:artful at rogers.com] > > Sent: Tuesday, March 16, 2004 5:47 PM > > To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' > > Subject: [AccessD] Short Date Input Mask question > > > > The standard short date input mask (99/99/0000;0;_) has a shortcoming > > that I hate: you have to type 04/04/04 to get April 4th 2004. The year > > handling is nice but the month and day suck. The mask won't let you type > > 4/4/04. Is there an alternative mask that will respond intelligently to > > such input? Or should I instead just remove all the input masks from all > > the date fields? > > > > TIA, > > Arthur > > > > -- > > -------------------------------------------------------------------------- > ------------------------------------------ > The information in this email may contain confidential information that > is legally privileged. The information is only for the use of the intended > > recipient(s) named above. If you are not the intended recipient(s), you > are hereby notified that any disclosure, copying, distribution, or the > taking > of any action in regard to the content of this fax is strictly prohibited. > If > transmission is incorrect, unclear, or incomplete, please notify the > sender > immediately. The authorized recipient(s) of this information is/are > prohibited > from disclosing this information to any other party and is/are required to > > destroy the information after its stated need has been fulfilled. > > Any views expressed in this message are those of the individual > sender, except where the sender specifies and with authority, > states them to be the views of Tappe Construction Co. > > This footer also confirms that this email message has been scanned > for the presence of computer viruses.Scanning of this message and > addition of this footer is performed by SurfControl E-mail Filter software > in conjunction with virus detection software. > > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From wdhindman at bellsouth.net Wed Mar 17 11:20:41 2004 From: wdhindman at bellsouth.net (William Hindman) Date: Wed, 17 Mar 2004 12:20:41 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Short Date Input Mask question References: <8B98F8EA48F8BA47A2F24E0D0AF40CF407AD7FBE@xlivmbx12.aig.com> Message-ID: <000a01c40c44$2c8e9df0$6101a8c0@dejpolsys> ...same here ...solves a LOT of problems :) William Hindman You know the world is upside down when Bill Clinton wins a Grammy and Janet Jackson is the subject of a government sex investigation. Argus Hamilton. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Heenan, Lambert" To: "'Access Developers discussion and problem solving'" Sent: Wednesday, March 17, 2004 9:21 AM Subject: RE: [AccessD] Short Date Input Mask question > My solution to date entry is simple - I never let user's type in a date. > They always pick the date from a simple calendar form (though I don't use > the MS Calendar control). Click on a date field and up pops the date picker. > While this would not be suitable, perhaps, in applications where massive > numbers of dates need to be entered, I find it works just fine for me. > > Lambert > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: Arthur Fuller [SMTP:artful at rogers.com] > > Sent: Tuesday, March 16, 2004 5:47 PM > > To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' > > Subject: [AccessD] Short Date Input Mask question > > > > The standard short date input mask (99/99/0000;0;_) has a shortcoming > > that I hate: you have to type 04/04/04 to get April 4th 2004. The year > > handling is nice but the month and day suck. The mask won't let you type > > 4/4/04. Is there an alternative mask that will respond intelligently to > > such input? Or should I instead just remove all the input masks from all > > the date fields? > > > > TIA, > > Arthur > > > > -- > > _______________________________________________ > > AccessD mailing list > > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > From wdhindman at bellsouth.net Wed Mar 17 11:25:12 2004 From: wdhindman at bellsouth.net (William Hindman) Date: Wed, 17 Mar 2004 12:25:12 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Short Date Input Mask question References: <8B98F8EA48F8BA47A2F24E0D0AF40CF407AD7FC3@xlivmbx12.aig.com> Message-ID: <001301c40c44$cf618240$6101a8c0@dejpolsys> ...shortcut keys/number pad activate each calendar function ...and I've got every client converted to trackballs instead of mice ...I used to have severe CTS using a mouse but since moving to trackballs I've been symptom free :) William Hindman You know the world is upside down when Bill Clinton wins a Grammy and Janet Jackson is the subject of a government sex investigation. Argus Hamilton. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Heenan, Lambert" To: "'Access Developers discussion and problem solving'" Sent: Wednesday, March 17, 2004 10:52 AM Subject: RE: [AccessD] Short Date Input Mask question > Bryan, > > Point taken. This was why I made the comment about mass data input. In point > of fact it is possible, though a bit clunky, to select a date with the > keyboard, and I should perhaps revisit the design on the form to make it > easier to do so. > > RSI is a serious problem, and I sympathize with your for having to deal with > it. However it's not confined to mouse use, indeed I remember it first being > reported back in the 80's before mice very prevalent. In those days the > blame was laid at the door of the extreme ease with which computer keyboards > operated vs. manual typewriters. This allowed for very rapid keystrokes, > which was thought to be the root cause of RSI. > > I also see people who have bizarre ideas about how they should position > their keyboards and mice. In short there are lots of factors involved, and > at the end of the day the user has to figure out the best way to use the > d*mned machines. So, to reiterate, I think I'll take the time to redesign my > date picker form to allow for better keyboard use of it. > > Lambert > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: Bryan Carbonnell [SMTP:Bryan_Carbonnell at cbc.ca] > > Sent: Wednesday, March 17, 2004 9:52 AM > > To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com > > Subject: RE: [AccessD] Short Date Input Mask question > > > > Lambert, > > > > It may work fine for you, but does it work for your users? Do you force > > them to use the mouse to select the date, or can they do everything they > > need to from the keyboard? > > > > The only reason I bring this up is that I have had RSI from moving > > between the mouse and keyboard for data entry too much. It got to the > > point where by 10 AM I could not feel my little finger and half of my > > lower arm becaude of it. > > > > As soon as I got one application that I used on a regular basis more > > keyboard friendly it helped. > > > > Just try to keep that in mind. I know I always do. I let users use the > > mouse or enter with the keyboard. Their choice. > > > > Bryan Carbonnell > > bryan_carbonnell at cbc.ca > > > > > > >>> Lambert.Heenan at AIG.com 17-Mar-04 9:21:45 AM >>> > > My solution to date entry is simple - I never let user's type in a > > date. > > They always pick the date from a simple calendar form (though I don't > > use > > the MS Calendar control). Click on a date field and up pops the date > > picker. > > While this would not be suitable, perhaps, in applications where > > massive > > numbers of dates need to be entered, I find it works just fine for me. > > > > Lambert > > > > -- > > _______________________________________________ > > AccessD mailing list > > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > From cfoust at infostatsystems.com Wed Mar 17 11:26:10 2004 From: cfoust at infostatsystems.com (Charlotte Foust) Date: Wed, 17 Mar 2004 09:26:10 -0800 Subject: [AccessD] Short Date Input Mask question Message-ID: We're more flexible. Users can double click a date field to pop up a calendar or they can type in a date in their regional format. Either way, it gets displayed as a medium date because there is no ambiguity with that format. Charlotte Foust -----Original Message----- From: William Hindman [mailto:wdhindman at bellsouth.net] Sent: Wednesday, March 17, 2004 9:21 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Short Date Input Mask question ...same here ...solves a LOT of problems :) William Hindman You know the world is upside down when Bill Clinton wins a Grammy and Janet Jackson is the subject of a government sex investigation. Argus Hamilton. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Heenan, Lambert" To: "'Access Developers discussion and problem solving'" Sent: Wednesday, March 17, 2004 9:21 AM Subject: RE: [AccessD] Short Date Input Mask question > My solution to date entry is simple - I never let user's type in a > date. They always pick the date from a simple calendar form (though I > don't use the MS Calendar control). Click on a date field and up pops > the date picker. > While this would not be suitable, perhaps, in applications where > massive numbers of dates need to be entered, I find it works just fine > for me. > > Lambert > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: Arthur Fuller [SMTP:artful at rogers.com] > > Sent: Tuesday, March 16, 2004 5:47 PM > > To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' > > Subject: [AccessD] Short Date Input Mask question > > > > The standard short date input mask (99/99/0000;0;_) has a > > shortcoming that I hate: you have to type 04/04/04 to get April 4th > > 2004. The year handling is nice but the month and day suck. The mask > > won't let you type 4/4/04. Is there an alternative mask that will > > respond intelligently to such input? Or should I instead just remove > > all the input masks from all the date fields? > > > > TIA, > > Arthur > > > > -- > > _______________________________________________ > > AccessD mailing list > > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From orthorabod at yahoo.com Wed Mar 17 11:30:06 2004 From: orthorabod at yahoo.com (Dick Abo) Date: Wed, 17 Mar 2004 09:30:06 -0800 (PST) Subject: [AccessD] RE: Detecting when an Access Report has been closed Message-ID: <20040317173006.82738.qmail@web13009.mail.yahoo.com> Charlotte: A few days ago I posted a question dealing with the detection of when an Access 2K generated reported has been closed by the user. I was referred to the WithEvents keyword and sinking the close event of the report. I've checked out some info in A2K on-line help and in the A97 ADH referencing the topic of the 'WithEvents' keyword. The examples dealt with event sink classes for Microsoft Word and a 'frmWithEventsWatch' form. I'm not sure how automating to MS Word affects an Access generated report. It appears to be more in-depth that I would like to go at thie time. I expect that this may be the only time that I will ever have to use this method. I also attempted to search the archives using 'WITHEVENTS' as the search key, but I seemed to be unsuccessful at pulling up related examples and material. Is there some sample code out there that deals with this topic and that doesn't get too deep? Regards, Rick Abo Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Mail - More reliable, more storage, less spam From cfoust at infostatsystems.com Wed Mar 17 11:37:51 2004 From: cfoust at infostatsystems.com (Charlotte Foust) Date: Wed, 17 Mar 2004 09:37:51 -0800 Subject: [AccessD] Short Date Input Mask question Message-ID: Hah! I got tendonitis in my thumb using a trackball. Had to go back to a mouse. That just shows that there is no single right answer. :-} Charlotte Foust -----Original Message----- From: William Hindman [mailto:wdhindman at bellsouth.net] Sent: Wednesday, March 17, 2004 9:25 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Short Date Input Mask question ...shortcut keys/number pad activate each calendar function ...and I've got every client converted to trackballs instead of mice ...I used to have severe CTS using a mouse but since moving to trackballs I've been symptom free :) William Hindman You know the world is upside down when Bill Clinton wins a Grammy and Janet Jackson is the subject of a government sex investigation. Argus Hamilton. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Heenan, Lambert" To: "'Access Developers discussion and problem solving'" Sent: Wednesday, March 17, 2004 10:52 AM Subject: RE: [AccessD] Short Date Input Mask question > Bryan, > > Point taken. This was why I made the comment about mass data input. In point > of fact it is possible, though a bit clunky, to select a date with the > keyboard, and I should perhaps revisit the design on the form to make > it easier to do so. > > RSI is a serious problem, and I sympathize with your for having to > deal with > it. However it's not confined to mouse use, indeed I remember it first being > reported back in the 80's before mice very prevalent. In those days > the blame was laid at the door of the extreme ease with which computer keyboards > operated vs. manual typewriters. This allowed for very rapid > keystrokes, which was thought to be the root cause of RSI. > > I also see people who have bizarre ideas about how they should > position their keyboards and mice. In short there are lots of factors > involved, and at the end of the day the user has to figure out the > best way to use the d*mned machines. So, to reiterate, I think I'll > take the time to redesign my > date picker form to allow for better keyboard use of it. > > Lambert > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: Bryan Carbonnell [SMTP:Bryan_Carbonnell at cbc.ca] > > Sent: Wednesday, March 17, 2004 9:52 AM > > To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com > > Subject: RE: [AccessD] Short Date Input Mask question > > > > Lambert, > > > > It may work fine for you, but does it work for your users? Do you > > force them to use the mouse to select the date, or can they do > > everything they need to from the keyboard? > > > > The only reason I bring this up is that I have had RSI from moving > > between the mouse and keyboard for data entry too much. It got to > > the point where by 10 AM I could not feel my little finger and half > > of my lower arm becaude of it. > > > > As soon as I got one application that I used on a regular basis more > > keyboard friendly it helped. > > > > Just try to keep that in mind. I know I always do. I let users use > > the mouse or enter with the keyboard. Their choice. > > > > Bryan Carbonnell > > bryan_carbonnell at cbc.ca > > > > > > >>> Lambert.Heenan at AIG.com 17-Mar-04 9:21:45 AM >>> > > My solution to date entry is simple - I never let user's type in a > > date. They always pick the date from a simple calendar form (though > > I don't use > > the MS Calendar control). Click on a date field and up pops the date > > picker. > > While this would not be suitable, perhaps, in applications where > > massive > > numbers of dates need to be entered, I find it works just fine for me. > > > > Lambert > > > > -- > > _______________________________________________ > > AccessD mailing list > > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From Bryan_Carbonnell at cbc.ca Wed Mar 17 11:39:16 2004 From: Bryan_Carbonnell at cbc.ca (Bryan Carbonnell) Date: Wed, 17 Mar 2004 12:39:16 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Short Date Input Mask question Message-ID: For me, mass data input didn't matter. It was simply moving back and forth between the keyboard and the mouse(pointing device). I never meant to imply that RSI was confined to mouse use. For me (and that is all I can speak about), it was lessened by several factors. I got an ergonomic keyboard, I switched from a mouse to a trackball and I started keeping my hands on the keyboard and using the pointing device less and less. I can't lay the blame on any one thing, but a combination of these 3 things have helped. It still flairs up, and it is *USUALLY* caused, for me anyway, when I am constantly moving from pointing device to keyboard. If you have ADH2K, there is no need to rebuild your date picker. The sample mdb for Chapter 8 has a really nice one. It can be used as a pop up OR embeded as a sub-form. Bryan Carbonnell bryan_carbonnell at cbc.ca >>> Lambert.Heenan at AIG.com 17-Mar-04 10:52:20 AM >>> Bryan, Point taken. This was why I made the comment about mass data input. In point of fact it is possible, though a bit clunky, to select a date with the keyboard, and I should perhaps revisit the design on the form to make it easier to do so. RSI is a serious problem, and I sympathize with your for having to deal with it. However it's not confined to mouse use, indeed I remember it first being reported back in the 80's before mice very prevalent. In those days the blame was laid at the door of the extreme ease with which computer keyboards operated vs. manual typewriters. This allowed for very rapid keystrokes, which was thought to be the root cause of RSI. I also see people who have bizarre ideas about how they should position their keyboards and mice. In short there are lots of factors involved, and at the end of the day the user has to figure out the best way to use the d*mned machines. So, to reiterate, I think I'll take the time to redesign my date picker form to allow for better keyboard use of it. Lambert > From: Bryan Carbonnell [SMTP:Bryan_Carbonnell at cbc.ca] > Sent: Wednesday, March 17, 2004 9:52 AM > To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com > Subject: RE: [AccessD] Short Date Input Mask question > > Lambert, > > It may work fine for you, but does it work for your users? Do you force > them to use the mouse to select the date, or can they do everything they > need to from the keyboard? > > The only reason I bring this up is that I have had RSI from moving > between the mouse and keyboard for data entry too much. It got to the > point where by 10 AM I could not feel my little finger and half of my > lower arm becaude of it. > > As soon as I got one application that I used on a regular basis more > keyboard friendly it helped. > > Just try to keep that in mind. I know I always do. I let users use the > mouse or enter with the keyboard. Their choice. > > Bryan Carbonnell > bryan_carbonnell at cbc.ca > > > >>> Lambert.Heenan at AIG.com 17-Mar-04 9:21:45 AM >>> > My solution to date entry is simple - I never let user's type in a > date. > They always pick the date from a simple calendar form (though I don't > use > the MS Calendar control). Click on a date field and up pops the date > picker. > While this would not be suitable, perhaps, in applications where > massive > numbers of dates need to be entered, I find it works just fine for me. From Bryan_Carbonnell at cbc.ca Wed Mar 17 11:39:56 2004 From: Bryan_Carbonnell at cbc.ca (Bryan Carbonnell) Date: Wed, 17 Mar 2004 12:39:56 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Short Date Input Mask question Message-ID: Causes a different set of problems though :-) Bryan Carbonnell bryan_carbonnelL at cbc.ca >>> wdhindman at bellsouth.net 17-Mar-04 12:20:41 PM >>> ...same here ...solves a LOT of problems :) William Hindman You know the world is upside down when Bill Clinton wins a Grammy and Janet Jackson is the subject of a government sex investigation. Argus Hamilton. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Heenan, Lambert" To: "'Access Developers discussion and problem solving'" Sent: Wednesday, March 17, 2004 9:21 AM Subject: RE: [AccessD] Short Date Input Mask question > My solution to date entry is simple - I never let user's type in a date. > They always pick the date from a simple calendar form (though I don't use > the MS Calendar control). Click on a date field and up pops the date picker. > While this would not be suitable, perhaps, in applications where massive > numbers of dates need to be entered, I find it works just fine for me. > > Lambert > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: Arthur Fuller [SMTP:artful at rogers.com] > > Sent: Tuesday, March 16, 2004 5:47 PM > > To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' > > Subject: [AccessD] Short Date Input Mask question > > > > The standard short date input mask (99/99/0000;0;_) has a shortcoming > > that I hate: you have to type 04/04/04 to get April 4th 2004. The year > > handling is nice but the month and day suck. The mask won't let you type > > 4/4/04. Is there an alternative mask that will respond intelligently to > > such input? Or should I instead just remove all the input masks from all > > the date fields? > > > > TIA, > > Arthur > > > > -- > > _______________________________________________ > > AccessD mailing list > > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From cfoust at infostatsystems.com Wed Mar 17 11:45:20 2004 From: cfoust at infostatsystems.com (Charlotte Foust) Date: Wed, 17 Mar 2004 09:45:20 -0800 Subject: [AccessD] RE: Detecting when an Access Report has been closed Message-ID: I have a simple WithEvents demo I can send you if you let me know offlist. It's so basic that I never submitted it to Rogers Library. Charlotte Foust -----Original Message----- From: Dick Abo [mailto:orthorabod at yahoo.com] Sent: Wednesday, March 17, 2004 9:30 AM To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: [AccessD] RE: Detecting when an Access Report has been closed Charlotte: A few days ago I posted a question dealing with the detection of when an Access 2K generated reported has been closed by the user. I was referred to the WithEvents keyword and sinking the close event of the report. I've checked out some info in A2K on-line help and in the A97 ADH referencing the topic of the 'WithEvents' keyword. The examples dealt with event sink classes for Microsoft Word and a 'frmWithEventsWatch' form. I'm not sure how automating to MS Word affects an Access generated report. It appears to be more in-depth that I would like to go at thie time. I expect that this may be the only time that I will ever have to use this method. I also attempted to search the archives using 'WITHEVENTS' as the search key, but I seemed to be unsuccessful at pulling up related examples and material. Is there some sample code out there that deals with this topic and that doesn't get too deep? Regards, Rick Abo Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Mail - More reliable, more storage, less spam -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From wdhindman at bellsouth.net Wed Mar 17 11:47:24 2004 From: wdhindman at bellsouth.net (William Hindman) Date: Wed, 17 Mar 2004 12:47:24 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Short Date Input Mask question References: Message-ID: <004101c40c47$e7c27a30$6101a8c0@dejpolsys> ...I use a variation of Drew's old calendar ...works great :) William Hindman You know the world is upside down when Bill Clinton wins a Grammy and Janet Jackson is the subject of a government sex investigation. Argus Hamilton. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Bryan Carbonnell" To: Sent: Wednesday, March 17, 2004 12:39 PM Subject: RE: [AccessD] Short Date Input Mask question > For me, mass data input didn't matter. It was simply moving back and > forth between the keyboard and the mouse(pointing device). > > I never meant to imply that RSI was confined to mouse use. > > For me (and that is all I can speak about), it was lessened by several > factors. I got an ergonomic keyboard, I switched from a mouse to a > trackball and I started keeping my hands on the keyboard and using the > pointing device less and less. > > I can't lay the blame on any one thing, but a combination of these 3 > things have helped. It still flairs up, and it is *USUALLY* caused, for > me anyway, when I am constantly moving from pointing device to > keyboard. > > If you have ADH2K, there is no need to rebuild your date picker. The > sample mdb for Chapter 8 has a really nice one. It can be used as a pop > up OR embeded as a sub-form. > > Bryan Carbonnell > bryan_carbonnell at cbc.ca > > >>> Lambert.Heenan at AIG.com 17-Mar-04 10:52:20 AM >>> > Bryan, > > Point taken. This was why I made the comment about mass data input. In > point > of fact it is possible, though a bit clunky, to select a date with the > keyboard, and I should perhaps revisit the design on the form to make > it > easier to do so. > > RSI is a serious problem, and I sympathize with your for having to deal > with > it. However it's not confined to mouse use, indeed I remember it first > being > reported back in the 80's before mice very prevalent. In those days > the > blame was laid at the door of the extreme ease with which computer > keyboards > operated vs. manual typewriters. This allowed for very rapid > keystrokes, > which was thought to be the root cause of RSI. > > I also see people who have bizarre ideas about how they should > position > their keyboards and mice. In short there are lots of factors involved, > and > at the end of the day the user has to figure out the best way to use > the > d*mned machines. So, to reiterate, I think I'll take the time to > redesign my > date picker form to allow for better keyboard use of it. > > Lambert > > > From: Bryan Carbonnell [SMTP:Bryan_Carbonnell at cbc.ca] > > Sent: Wednesday, March 17, 2004 9:52 AM > > To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com > > Subject: RE: [AccessD] Short Date Input Mask question > > > > Lambert, > > > > It may work fine for you, but does it work for your users? Do you > force > > them to use the mouse to select the date, or can they do everything > they > > need to from the keyboard? > > > > The only reason I bring this up is that I have had RSI from moving > > between the mouse and keyboard for data entry too much. It got to > the > > point where by 10 AM I could not feel my little finger and half of > my > > lower arm becaude of it. > > > > As soon as I got one application that I used on a regular basis more > > keyboard friendly it helped. > > > > Just try to keep that in mind. I know I always do. I let users use > the > > mouse or enter with the keyboard. Their choice. > > > > Bryan Carbonnell > > bryan_carbonnell at cbc.ca > > > > > > >>> Lambert.Heenan at AIG.com 17-Mar-04 9:21:45 AM >>> > > My solution to date entry is simple - I never let user's type in a > > date. > > They always pick the date from a simple calendar form (though I don't > > > use > > the MS Calendar control). Click on a date field and up pops the date > > picker. > > While this would not be suitable, perhaps, in applications where > > massive > > numbers of dates need to be entered, I find it works just fine for > me. > > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > From wdhindman at bellsouth.net Wed Mar 17 11:47:56 2004 From: wdhindman at bellsouth.net (William Hindman) Date: Wed, 17 Mar 2004 12:47:56 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Short Date Input Mask question References: Message-ID: <004601c40c47$fb48cc80$6101a8c0@dejpolsys> ...none that have not been addressed :) William Hindman You know the world is upside down when Bill Clinton wins a Grammy and Janet Jackson is the subject of a government sex investigation. Argus Hamilton. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Bryan Carbonnell" To: Sent: Wednesday, March 17, 2004 12:39 PM Subject: Re: [AccessD] Short Date Input Mask question > Causes a different set of problems though :-) > > Bryan Carbonnell > bryan_carbonnelL at cbc.ca > > >>> wdhindman at bellsouth.net 17-Mar-04 12:20:41 PM >>> > ...same here ...solves a LOT of problems :) > > William Hindman > You know the world is upside down when Bill Clinton wins a Grammy and > Janet > Jackson is the subject of a government sex investigation. Argus > Hamilton. > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Heenan, Lambert" > To: "'Access Developers discussion and problem solving'" > > Sent: Wednesday, March 17, 2004 9:21 AM > Subject: RE: [AccessD] Short Date Input Mask question > > > > My solution to date entry is simple - I never let user's type in a > date. > > They always pick the date from a simple calendar form (though I don't > use > > the MS Calendar control). Click on a date field and up pops the date > picker. > > While this would not be suitable, perhaps, in applications where > massive > > numbers of dates need to be entered, I find it works just fine for > me. > > > > Lambert > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > From: Arthur Fuller [SMTP:artful at rogers.com] > > > Sent: Tuesday, March 16, 2004 5:47 PM > > > To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' > > > Subject: [AccessD] Short Date Input Mask question > > > > > > The standard short date input mask (99/99/0000;0;_) has a > shortcoming > > > that I hate: you have to type 04/04/04 to get April 4th 2004. The > year > > > handling is nice but the month and day suck. The mask won't let you > type > > > 4/4/04. Is there an alternative mask that will respond > intelligently to > > > such input? Or should I instead just remove all the input masks > from all > > > the date fields? > > > > > > TIA, > > > Arthur > > > > > > -- > > > _______________________________________________ > > > AccessD mailing list > > > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > > > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > -- > > _______________________________________________ > > AccessD mailing list > > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > From Bryan_Carbonnell at cbc.ca Wed Mar 17 11:52:01 2004 From: Bryan_Carbonnell at cbc.ca (Bryan Carbonnell) Date: Wed, 17 Mar 2004 12:52:01 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Short Date Input Mask question Message-ID: Heck, not only are there no right answers, one answer doesn't always work for different situations for the same person. Day to day at work I use a trackball, unless I am doing major visual design stuff (Forms, reports...) Then I switch to a mouse. If I am doing significant graphics work, then I switch to a pen and tablet. At home, it's a mouse for day to day and a tablet for graphics work. All this is with a big old heaping dose of keyboard shortcuts. :) Bryan Carbonnell bryan_carbonnell at cbc.ca >>> cfoust at infostatsystems.com 17-Mar-04 12:37:51 PM >>> Hah! I got tendonitis in my thumb using a trackball. Had to go back to a mouse. That just shows that there is no single right answer. :-} Charlotte Foust -----Original Message----- From: William Hindman [mailto:wdhindman at bellsouth.net] Sent: Wednesday, March 17, 2004 9:25 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Short Date Input Mask question ...shortcut keys/number pad activate each calendar function ...and I've got every client converted to trackballs instead of mice ...I used to have severe CTS using a mouse but since moving to trackballs I've been symptom free :) From Mark.Mitsules at ngc.com Wed Mar 17 12:02:08 2004 From: Mark.Mitsules at ngc.com (Mitsules, Mark S. (Newport News)) Date: Wed, 17 Mar 2004 13:02:08 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Tracking Outlook message arrival Message-ID: A quick search yielded this: http://www.outlookcode.com/d/database.htm The article did mention hooking into Exchange directly...but I did not read in detail whether these connections were dependent on Outlook running or not. HTH Mark -----Original Message----- From: Jim DeMarco [mailto:Jdemarco at hudsonhealthplan.org] Sent: Wednesday, March 17, 2004 8:29 AM To: AccessD (E-mail) Subject: [AccessD] Tracking Outlook message arrival List, We had a request to place Outlook mail items in an MDB as they arrived at a help desk mail account (Exchange). Our developer put code in the Outlook NewMail event to grab the fields we want and put them in the MDB. Problem is this method requires the e-mail account be open (running on a PC) and the user(s) don't want a PC just to run this app. Is there a way to monitor an e-mail account or hook into Exchange to grab this account's new mail as it hits the Inbox without running through Outlook? Outlook VBA, VB, or Access 97 solutions are all viable for us. TIA, Jim DeMarco Director Application Development Hudson Health Plan **************************************************************************** ******* "This electronic message is intended to be for the use only of the named recipient, and may contain information from Hudson Health Plan (HHP) that is confidential or privileged. If you are not the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any disclosure, copying, distribution or use of the contents of this message is strictly prohibited. If you have received this message in error or are not the named recipient, please notify us immediately, either by contacting the sender at the electronic mail address noted above or calling HHP at (914) 631-1611. If you are not the intended recipient, please do not forward this email to anyone, and delete and destroy all copies of this message. Thank You". **************************************************************************** ******* -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From djkr at msn.com Wed Mar 17 12:18:56 2004 From: djkr at msn.com (DJK(John) Robinson) Date: Wed, 17 Mar 2004 18:18:56 -0000 Subject: [AccessD] Access 2003 Developer Edition? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <002101c40c4c$4fc11c00$bf00a8c0@dabsight> [Visual Studio Tools for the Microsoft Office System] Yes, there is a "tools upgrade" price: 60% off the Full price. Rocky's ODE97 will qualify him for it. See: http://msdn.microsoft.com/vstudio/howtobuy/officetools/ Access 2003 Developer Extensions, VB .NET Standard Edition, and SQLS 2000 Developer Edition are included in VST4MSOS. As Marty said, see: http://msdn.microsoft.com/vstudio/office/ The different *Office* 2003 editions are listed in: http://www.microsoft.com/office/editions/howtobuy/compare.mspx No personal experience yet of the Package Wizard, but I've heard good reports of it. HTH John > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of > Charlotte Foust > Sent: 17 March 2004 16:06 > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: RE: [AccessD] Access 2003 Developer Edition? > > > I don't think there is a "tools upgrade" price, Rocky. A > developer license gives you the right to upgrade to Pro or > Premium (I can't keep the versions straight) in 2003. I > never saw an upgrade path to the VSTO package anywhere I > looked. Developer gives you an upgrade path to Visual > Studio.Net, I believe, but the VSTO is a separate package. > > Charlotte Foust > > -----Original Message----- > From: Rocky Smolin - Beach Access Software [mailto:bchacc at san.rr.com] > Sent: Tuesday, March 16, 2004 8:58 PM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access 2003 Developer Edition? > > > Marty: > > A couple of weeks ago I was asking about deploying an Access > product and trying to decide whether to go with Wise/Sagekey > A2K script with an A2K mde. But I'd have to buy the A2K > developer edition. as well as the Sagekey script. > > Now it appears, IIUC, that I could buy Office 2003 and the > Office Developer Tools (I've got A97 Developer license so I > could get the Tools upgrade price, I think), and use the > Developer Tools packaging wizard. > > >From the article it appears that the Packaging Wizard is pretty good. > >I > didn't detect any of the 'it really stinks' kind of review of > earlier Access packagers. > > Has you or anyone had any experience with it yet? Is it a > reasonable alternative? It probably would have a longer life > than going with an A2K solution. One requirement I see is > that the target machine has to have W2K or WXP but that > shouldn't be too much of a problem as time goes on. > > Regards, > > Rocky Smolin > Beach Access Software > http://www.e-z-mrp.com > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "MartyConnelly" > To: "Access Developers discussion and problem solving" > > Sent: Monday, March 15, 2004 11:30 AM > Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access 2003 Developer Edition? > > > > The Access 2003 runtime ships with any version of Office > 2003 that has > > Access 2003, the license to redistribute solutions with the Access > > runtime is available exclusively through the Access Developer > > Extensions. The Access Developer Extensions include the > Package Wizard > > and other developer-oriented tools. The Package Wizard creates a > > package based on an Access 2003 solution that users can install and > > uninstall with the Microsoft Windows Installer. You can > only acquire > > the Access Developer Extensions by buying the "Visual Studio Tools > > for the Microsoft Office System". > > http://msdn.microsoft.com/vstudio/office > > > > > > Packaging Access 2003 Solutions Rick Dobson > > > > > http://msdn.microsoft.com/library/default.asp?url=/library/en-us/dnsmart03/h tml/sa03j8.asp > > Michael Br?sdorf wrote: > > >Hello, > > > >I noticed that there seems to no more Office 2003 Developers Edition. > >Is it > >still possible to create Run-Time applications with Access 2003? ` > >Michael > > > > > > > > -- > Marty Connelly > Victoria, B.C. > Canada > -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From Jdemarco at hudsonhealthplan.org Wed Mar 17 12:24:33 2004 From: Jdemarco at hudsonhealthplan.org (Jim DeMarco) Date: Wed, 17 Mar 2004 13:24:33 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Tracking Outlook message arrival Message-ID: <22F1CCD5171D17419CB37FEEE09D5F99030FE5A5@TTNEXCHSRV1.hshhp.com> Thanks Mark. I'll take a look. I checked Codehound and PlanetSourceCode but didn't find anything. Drew W. had something I thought might work on PlanetSourceCode but unless he chimes in here I really couldn't tell from the code. Jim D. -----Original Message----- From: Mitsules, Mark S. (Newport News) [mailto:Mark.Mitsules at ngc.com] Sent: Wednesday, March 17, 2004 1:02 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: [AccessD] Tracking Outlook message arrival A quick search yielded this: http://www.outlookcode.com/d/database.htm The article did mention hooking into Exchange directly...but I did not read in detail whether these connections were dependent on Outlook running or not. HTH Mark -----Original Message----- From: Jim DeMarco [mailto:Jdemarco at hudsonhealthplan.org] Sent: Wednesday, March 17, 2004 8:29 AM To: AccessD (E-mail) Subject: [AccessD] Tracking Outlook message arrival List, We had a request to place Outlook mail items in an MDB as they arrived at a help desk mail account (Exchange). Our developer put code in the Outlook NewMail event to grab the fields we want and put them in the MDB. Problem is this method requires the e-mail account be open (running on a PC) and the user(s) don't want a PC just to run this app. Is there a way to monitor an e-mail account or hook into Exchange to grab this account's new mail as it hits the Inbox without running through Outlook? Outlook VBA, VB, or Access 97 solutions are all viable for us. TIA, Jim DeMarco Director Application Development Hudson Health Plan **************************************************************************** ******* "This electronic message is intended to be for the use only of the named recipient, and may contain information from Hudson Health Plan (HHP) that is confidential or privileged. If you are not the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any disclosure, copying, distribution or use of the contents of this message is strictly prohibited. If you have received this message in error or are not the named recipient, please notify us immediately, either by contacting the sender at the electronic mail address noted above or calling HHP at (914) 631-1611. If you are not the intended recipient, please do not forward this email to anyone, and delete and destroy all copies of this message. Thank You". **************************************************************************** ******* -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com *********************************************************************************** "This electronic message is intended to be for the use only of the named recipient, and may contain information from Hudson Health Plan (HHP) that is confidential or privileged. If you are not the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any disclosure, copying, distribution or use of the contents of this message is strictly prohibited. If you have received this message in error or are not the named recipient, please notify us immediately, either by contacting the sender at the electronic mail address noted above or calling HHP at (914) 631-1611. If you are not the intended recipient, please do not forward this email to anyone, and delete and destroy all copies of this message. Thank You". *********************************************************************************** From cfoust at infostatsystems.com Wed Mar 17 12:25:31 2004 From: cfoust at infostatsystems.com (Charlotte Foust) Date: Wed, 17 Mar 2004 10:25:31 -0800 Subject: [AccessD] Access 2003 Developer Edition? Message-ID: Thanks. I hadn't found that, and I received a full version of the tools as a prize, so I didn't keep looking. Charlotte Foust -----Original Message----- From: DJK(John) Robinson [mailto:djkr at msn.com] Sent: Wednesday, March 17, 2004 10:19 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: [AccessD] Access 2003 Developer Edition? [Visual Studio Tools for the Microsoft Office System] Yes, there is a "tools upgrade" price: 60% off the Full price. Rocky's ODE97 will qualify him for it. See: http://msdn.microsoft.com/vstudio/howtobuy/officetools/ Access 2003 Developer Extensions, VB .NET Standard Edition, and SQLS 2000 Developer Edition are included in VST4MSOS. As Marty said, see: http://msdn.microsoft.com/vstudio/office/ The different *Office* 2003 editions are listed in: http://www.microsoft.com/office/editions/howtobuy/compare.mspx No personal experience yet of the Package Wizard, but I've heard good reports of it. HTH John > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of > Charlotte Foust > Sent: 17 March 2004 16:06 > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: RE: [AccessD] Access 2003 Developer Edition? > > > I don't think there is a "tools upgrade" price, Rocky. A > developer license gives you the right to upgrade to Pro or > Premium (I can't keep the versions straight) in 2003. I > never saw an upgrade path to the VSTO package anywhere I > looked. Developer gives you an upgrade path to Visual > Studio.Net, I believe, but the VSTO is a separate package. > > Charlotte Foust > > -----Original Message----- > From: Rocky Smolin - Beach Access Software [mailto:bchacc at san.rr.com] > Sent: Tuesday, March 16, 2004 8:58 PM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access 2003 Developer Edition? > > > Marty: > > A couple of weeks ago I was asking about deploying an Access > product and trying to decide whether to go with Wise/Sagekey > A2K script with an A2K mde. But I'd have to buy the A2K > developer edition. as well as the Sagekey script. > > Now it appears, IIUC, that I could buy Office 2003 and the > Office Developer Tools (I've got A97 Developer license so I > could get the Tools upgrade price, I think), and use the > Developer Tools packaging wizard. > > >From the article it appears that the Packaging Wizard is pretty good. > >I > didn't detect any of the 'it really stinks' kind of review of > earlier Access packagers. > > Has you or anyone had any experience with it yet? Is it a > reasonable alternative? It probably would have a longer life > than going with an A2K solution. One requirement I see is > that the target machine has to have W2K or WXP but that > shouldn't be too much of a problem as time goes on. > > Regards, > > Rocky Smolin > Beach Access Software > http://www.e-z-mrp.com > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "MartyConnelly" > To: "Access Developers discussion and problem solving" > > Sent: Monday, March 15, 2004 11:30 AM > Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access 2003 Developer Edition? > > > > The Access 2003 runtime ships with any version of Office > 2003 that has > > Access 2003, the license to redistribute solutions with the Access > > runtime is available exclusively through the Access Developer > > Extensions. The Access Developer Extensions include the > Package Wizard > > and other developer-oriented tools. The Package Wizard creates a > > package based on an Access 2003 solution that users can install and > > uninstall with the Microsoft Windows Installer. You can > only acquire > > the Access Developer Extensions by buying the "Visual Studio Tools > > for the Microsoft Office System". > > http://msdn.microsoft.com/vstudio/office > > > > > > Packaging Access 2003 Solutions Rick Dobson > > > > > http://msdn.microsoft.com/library/default.asp?url=/library/en-us/dnsmart03/h tml/sa03j8.asp > > Michael Br?sdorf wrote: > > >Hello, > > > >I noticed that there seems to no more Office 2003 Developers Edition. > >Is it > >still possible to create Run-Time applications with Access 2003? ` > >Michael > > > > > > > > -- > Marty Connelly > Victoria, B.C. > Canada > -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From martyconnelly at shaw.ca Wed Mar 17 12:42:16 2004 From: martyconnelly at shaw.ca (MartyConnelly) Date: Wed, 17 Mar 2004 10:42:16 -0800 Subject: [AccessD] Access 2003 Developer Edition? References: <40560466.1080601@shaw.ca> <01fd01c40bdc$65fa7540$6601a8c0@HAL9002> Message-ID: <40589C08.4080501@shaw.ca> You may have one other choice. I might be tempted to use SageKey MSI scripts rather than Wise, especially with the newer security on systems like WinXP SP2 (due out in summer) or Win 2003. It might make it easier to do a user install, rather than having to do an administrative one. Or even an install for running via Terminal Server. I am guessing here but a phone call to SageKey might resolve that one. SageKey MSI installs are available back to Access97, however with older OS systems you may have to upgrade the MSI installer to version 2.0??? The MSI install would perhaps save you the price of Wise. You could use the Package Wizard but will it get you around the problem of multiple Access installs? The BIG problem maybe that the Package Wizard requires a purchased security certificate to get around macro security. I am not sure the roll your own certificate method works, Sagekey Access 2003 MSI or Wise Scripts don't need this. But you may still need Wise with MSI, if you are installing complex OCX or dll files. This is real swings and merrygoround stuff. One advantage of buying Access 2003 VSTO is it includes VB.Net Pro, SQL Server 2000 Developer and the VS add-ins to create managed code projects for Word and Excel and three other Access developer add-ins. You can buy the VSTO upgrade if you have Access Developer 97 and up for $200 US http://msdn.microsoft.com/vstudio/howtobuy/officetools/ Rocky Smolin - Beach Access Software wrote: >Marty: > >A couple of weeks ago I was asking about deploying an Access product and >trying to decide whether to go with Wise/Sagekey A2K script with an A2K mde. >But I'd have to buy the A2K developer edition. as well as the Sagekey >script. > >Now it appears, IIUC, that I could buy Office 2003 and the Office Developer >Tools (I've got A97 Developer license so I could get the Tools upgrade >price, I think), and use the Developer Tools packaging wizard. > >>From the article it appears that the Packaging Wizard is pretty good. I >didn't detect any of the 'it really stinks' kind of review of earlier Access >packagers. > >Has you or anyone had any experience with it yet? Is it a reasonable >alternative? It probably would have a longer life than going with an A2K >solution. One requirement I see is that the target machine has to have W2K >or WXP but that shouldn't be too much of a problem as time goes on. > >Regards, > >Rocky Smolin >Beach Access Software >http://www.e-z-mrp.com > > >----- Original Message ----- >From: "MartyConnelly" >To: "Access Developers discussion and problem solving" > >Sent: Monday, March 15, 2004 11:30 AM >Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access 2003 Developer Edition? > > > > >>The Access 2003 runtime ships with any version of Office 2003 that has >>Access 2003, the license to redistribute solutions with the Access >>runtime is available exclusively through the Access Developer >>Extensions. The Access Developer Extensions include the Package Wizard >>and other developer-oriented tools. The Package Wizard creates a package >>based on an Access 2003 solution that users can install and uninstall >>with the Microsoft Windows Installer. You can only acquire the Access >>Developer Extensions by buying the "Visual Studio Tools for the >>Microsoft Office System". >>http://msdn.microsoft.com/vstudio/office >> >> >> Packaging Access 2003 Solutions Rick Dobson >> >> >> >> >http://msdn.microsoft.com/library/default.asp?url=/library/en-us/dnsmart03/html/sa03j8.asp > > >>Michael Br?sdorf wrote: >> >> >> >>>Hello, >>> >>>I noticed that there seems to no more Office 2003 Developers Edition. Is >>> >>> >it > > >>>still possible to create Run-Time applications with Access 2003? >>>` >>>Michael >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>-- >>Marty Connelly >>Victoria, B.C. >>Canada >> >> >> >>-- >>_______________________________________________ >>AccessD mailing list >>AccessD at databaseadvisors.com >>http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd >>Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com >> >> >> > > > -- Marty Connelly Victoria, B.C. Canada From bchacc at san.rr.com Wed Mar 17 12:43:56 2004 From: bchacc at san.rr.com (Rocky Smolin - Beach Access Software) Date: Wed, 17 Mar 2004 10:43:56 -0800 Subject: [AccessD] Access 2003 Developer Edition? References: <002101c40c4c$4fc11c00$bf00a8c0@dabsight> Message-ID: <012801c40c4f$cdf39960$6601a8c0@HAL9002> John: DO you know if I have to have the ODE97 installed to install the Visual Studio Tools for the Microsoft Office System upgrade? Or will it just ask for a CD key, maybe? Rocky ----- Original Message ----- From: "DJK(John) Robinson" To: "'Access Developers discussion and problem solving'" Sent: Wednesday, March 17, 2004 10:18 AM Subject: RE: [AccessD] Access 2003 Developer Edition? > [Visual Studio Tools for the Microsoft Office System] > > Yes, there is a "tools upgrade" price: 60% off the Full price. Rocky's > ODE97 will qualify him for it. See: > http://msdn.microsoft.com/vstudio/howtobuy/officetools/ > > Access 2003 Developer Extensions, VB .NET Standard Edition, and SQLS 2000 > Developer Edition are included in VST4MSOS. As Marty said, see: > http://msdn.microsoft.com/vstudio/office/ > > > The different *Office* 2003 editions are listed in: > http://www.microsoft.com/office/editions/howtobuy/compare.mspx > > > No personal experience yet of the Package Wizard, but I've heard good > reports of it. > > HTH > John > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of > > Charlotte Foust > > Sent: 17 March 2004 16:06 > > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > > Subject: RE: [AccessD] Access 2003 Developer Edition? > > > > > > I don't think there is a "tools upgrade" price, Rocky. A > > developer license gives you the right to upgrade to Pro or > > Premium (I can't keep the versions straight) in 2003. I > > never saw an upgrade path to the VSTO package anywhere I > > looked. Developer gives you an upgrade path to Visual > > Studio.Net, I believe, but the VSTO is a separate package. > > > > Charlotte Foust > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: Rocky Smolin - Beach Access Software [mailto:bchacc at san.rr.com] > > Sent: Tuesday, March 16, 2004 8:58 PM > > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > > Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access 2003 Developer Edition? > > > > > > Marty: > > > > A couple of weeks ago I was asking about deploying an Access > > product and trying to decide whether to go with Wise/Sagekey > > A2K script with an A2K mde. But I'd have to buy the A2K > > developer edition. as well as the Sagekey script. > > > > Now it appears, IIUC, that I could buy Office 2003 and the > > Office Developer Tools (I've got A97 Developer license so I > > could get the Tools upgrade price, I think), and use the > > Developer Tools packaging wizard. > > > > >From the article it appears that the Packaging Wizard is pretty good. > > >I > > didn't detect any of the 'it really stinks' kind of review of > > earlier Access packagers. > > > > Has you or anyone had any experience with it yet? Is it a > > reasonable alternative? It probably would have a longer life > > than going with an A2K solution. One requirement I see is > > that the target machine has to have W2K or WXP but that > > shouldn't be too much of a problem as time goes on. > > > > Regards, > > > > Rocky Smolin > > Beach Access Software > > http://www.e-z-mrp.com > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: "MartyConnelly" > > To: "Access Developers discussion and problem solving" > > > > Sent: Monday, March 15, 2004 11:30 AM > > Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access 2003 Developer Edition? > > > > > > > The Access 2003 runtime ships with any version of Office > > 2003 that has > > > Access 2003, the license to redistribute solutions with the Access > > > runtime is available exclusively through the Access Developer > > > Extensions. The Access Developer Extensions include the > > Package Wizard > > > and other developer-oriented tools. The Package Wizard creates a > > > package based on an Access 2003 solution that users can install and > > > uninstall with the Microsoft Windows Installer. You can > > only acquire > > > the Access Developer Extensions by buying the "Visual Studio Tools > > > for the Microsoft Office System". > > > http://msdn.microsoft.com/vstudio/office > > > > > > > > > Packaging Access 2003 Solutions Rick Dobson > > > > > > > > > http://msdn.microsoft.com/library/default.asp?url=/library/en-us/dnsmart03/h > tml/sa03j8.asp > > > > Michael Br?sdorf wrote: > > > > >Hello, > > > > > >I noticed that there seems to no more Office 2003 Developers Edition. > > >Is > it > > >still possible to create Run-Time applications with Access 2003? ` > > >Michael > > > > > > > > > > > > > -- > > Marty Connelly > > Victoria, B.C. > > Canada > > > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > From Jdemarco at hudsonhealthplan.org Wed Mar 17 12:48:46 2004 From: Jdemarco at hudsonhealthplan.org (Jim DeMarco) Date: Wed, 17 Mar 2004 13:48:46 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Tracking Outlook message arrival Message-ID: <22F1CCD5171D17419CB37FEEE09D5F99030FE5A6@TTNEXCHSRV1.hshhp.com> Well here's a strange one for you. At the bottom of this page from this link there's what looks like the perfect link "Extract Outlook Email to Database" but when you click it it goes to a Church of England web site were there arre other links to Outlook code but they go nowhere. Go figure. Jim DeMarco -----Original Message----- From: Mitsules, Mark S. (Newport News) [mailto:Mark.Mitsules at ngc.com] Sent: Wednesday, March 17, 2004 1:02 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: [AccessD] Tracking Outlook message arrival A quick search yielded this: http://www.outlookcode.com/d/database.htm The article did mention hooking into Exchange directly...but I did not read in detail whether these connections were dependent on Outlook running or not. HTH Mark -----Original Message----- From: Jim DeMarco [mailto:Jdemarco at hudsonhealthplan.org] Sent: Wednesday, March 17, 2004 8:29 AM To: AccessD (E-mail) Subject: [AccessD] Tracking Outlook message arrival List, We had a request to place Outlook mail items in an MDB as they arrived at a help desk mail account (Exchange). Our developer put code in the Outlook NewMail event to grab the fields we want and put them in the MDB. Problem is this method requires the e-mail account be open (running on a PC) and the user(s) don't want a PC just to run this app. Is there a way to monitor an e-mail account or hook into Exchange to grab this account's new mail as it hits the Inbox without running through Outlook? Outlook VBA, VB, or Access 97 solutions are all viable for us. TIA, Jim DeMarco Director Application Development Hudson Health Plan **************************************************************************** ******* "This electronic message is intended to be for the use only of the named recipient, and may contain information from Hudson Health Plan (HHP) that is confidential or privileged. If you are not the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any disclosure, copying, distribution or use of the contents of this message is strictly prohibited. If you have received this message in error or are not the named recipient, please notify us immediately, either by contacting the sender at the electronic mail address noted above or calling HHP at (914) 631-1611. If you are not the intended recipient, please do not forward this email to anyone, and delete and destroy all copies of this message. Thank You". **************************************************************************** ******* -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com *********************************************************************************** "This electronic message is intended to be for the use only of the named recipient, and may contain information from Hudson Health Plan (HHP) that is confidential or privileged. If you are not the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any disclosure, copying, distribution or use of the contents of this message is strictly prohibited. If you have received this message in error or are not the named recipient, please notify us immediately, either by contacting the sender at the electronic mail address noted above or calling HHP at (914) 631-1611. If you are not the intended recipient, please do not forward this email to anyone, and delete and destroy all copies of this message. Thank You". *********************************************************************************** From martyconnelly at shaw.ca Wed Mar 17 12:53:03 2004 From: martyconnelly at shaw.ca (MartyConnelly) Date: Wed, 17 Mar 2004 10:53:03 -0800 Subject: [AccessD] Tracking Outlook message arrival References: <22F1CCD5171D17419CB37FEEE09D5F9902E80024@TTNEXCHSRV1.hshhp.com> Message-ID: <40589E8F.9060506@shaw.ca> Might find something here Microsoft Exchange Server Scripting and Routing http://www.outlookcode.com/d/scripting.htm Jim DeMarco wrote: >List, > >We had a request to place Outlook mail items in an MDB as they arrived at a help desk mail account (Exchange). Our developer put code in the Outlook NewMail event to grab the fields we want and put them in the MDB. Problem is this method requires the e-mail account be open (running on a PC) and the user(s) don't want a PC just to run this app. > >Is there a way to monitor an e-mail account or hook into Exchange to grab this account's new mail as it hits the Inbox without running through Outlook? Outlook VBA, VB, or Access 97 solutions are all viable for us. > >TIA, > >Jim DeMarco >Director Application Development >Hudson Health Plan > > > >*********************************************************************************** >"This electronic message is intended to be for the use only of the named recipient, and may contain information from Hudson Health Plan (HHP) that is confidential or privileged. If you are not the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any disclosure, copying, distribution or use of the contents of this message is strictly prohibited. If you have received this message in error or are not the named recipient, please notify us immediately, either by contacting the sender at the electronic mail address noted above or calling HHP at (914) 631-1611. If you are not the intended recipient, please do not forward this email to anyone, and delete and destroy all copies of this message. Thank You". >*********************************************************************************** > > > -- Marty Connelly Victoria, B.C. Canada From Bryan_Carbonnell at cbc.ca Wed Mar 17 12:56:16 2004 From: Bryan_Carbonnell at cbc.ca (Bryan Carbonnell) Date: Wed, 17 Mar 2004 13:56:16 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Tracking Outlook message arrival Message-ID: Here is Google's cached version of the page: http://www.google.ca/search?q=cache:28nDM4gUJbUJ:www.hlyspirit.org.uk/cms/index.php/Extract_Outlook_to_Database/6/0/+Extract+Outlook+to+Database&hl=en&ie=UTF-8 There is a link, that works, to download the app. The direct link to download is http://www.hlyspirit.org.uk/cms/uploads/media/E2DBSetup.EXE Bryan Carbonnell bryan_carbonnell at cbc.ca >>> Jdemarco at hudsonhealthplan.org 17-Mar-04 1:48:46 PM >>> Well here's a strange one for you. At the bottom of this page from this link there's what looks like the perfect link "Extract Outlook Email to Database" but when you click it it goes to a Church of England web site were there arre other links to Outlook code but they go nowhere. Go figure. Jim DeMarco From MPorter at acsalaska.com Wed Mar 17 13:02:51 2004 From: MPorter at acsalaska.com (Porter, Mark) Date: Wed, 17 Mar 2004 10:02:51 -0900 Subject: [AccessD] OT: Interfacing => Datamodel Message-ID: You may want to investigate BizTalk to assist you in this. > -----Original Message----- > From: S D [mailto:accessd667 at yahoo.com] > Sent: Tuesday, March 16, 2004 10:51 PM > To: accessd > Subject: [AccessD] OT: Interfacing => Datamodel > > > Hi group, > > I need some info regarding interfacing (messages between 2 > parties) not interfaces in VB , C++, etc.!! Could you please > comment on this: > > Process: > We receive and send interfaces (textfiles) with a specific > layout. There are about 100 types of different messages. > About 50 incoming and 50 outgoing. > > I've build a datamodel like this: > Importing files: > 1 table stores the data of the incoming file: (tblRawData) > Fields: > ID > FileName > MessageID (wich type of message is it?) > MessageData > Date > Time > > 1 table has lay-out information regarding all messages: > (tblMessageLayout) > MessageID (Message Type) > FieldName (different data fields) > StartPosition (at what position is the data for the field stored) > EndPosition (at what position is the data for the field stored) > Mandatory (Is this a mandatory field?) > > 1 table with the layout as stored in the table above for > every Message Type. (tblMessageX) > To store the data of the interface file. I would have 100 of > these tables > > Example: > MessageType 10 has the following fields: > Field StartPosition EndPosition Mandatory | Example data > ID 1 8 YES > | 12345678 > CustID 9 15 YES | 100235 > Street 16 35 NO | > KennedyLane > Housenr 36 38 NO | 15 > etc > etc > > The interface could look like this: > 12345678100235KennedyLane15 > 12345677100266St.Anna 6 > 12345645100322blablabla 10 > > I want to store every line in the table tblRawData. After > that I use the tblMessageLayout to export the data in > tblRawData to tblMessage10 > The table tblMessageLayout has (for Message 10) the following data: > > MessageID FieldName StartPosition EndPosition Mandatory > 10 ID 1 8 > Y > 10 CustID 9 15 > Y > 10 Street 16 35 > N > etc > > > Could this approach work? What didn't I think of? What are > known traps for interfacing? > > TIA > > Sander > > Do you Yahoo!? > Yahoo! Mail - More reliable, more storage, less spam > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > *********************************************************************************** 17/3/2004 This transmittal may contain confidential information intended solely for the addressee. If you are not the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that you have received this transmittal in error; any review, dissemination, distribution or copying of this transmittal is strictly prohibited. If you have received this communication in error, please notify us immediately by reply or by telephone (collect at 907-564-1000) and ask to speak with the message sender. In addition, please immediately delete this message and all attachments. Thank you. ACS From Jdemarco at hudsonhealthplan.org Wed Mar 17 13:05:10 2004 From: Jdemarco at hudsonhealthplan.org (Jim DeMarco) Date: Wed, 17 Mar 2004 14:05:10 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Tracking Outlook message arrival Message-ID: <22F1CCD5171D17419CB37FEEE09D5F99030FE5A8@TTNEXCHSRV1.hshhp.com> Thanks Marty. I hadn't had time to snoop the site but this looks promising. Jim D. -----Original Message----- From: MartyConnelly [mailto:martyconnelly at shaw.ca] Sent: Wednesday, March 17, 2004 1:53 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Tracking Outlook message arrival Might find something here Microsoft Exchange Server Scripting and Routing http://www.outlookcode.com/d/scripting.htm Jim DeMarco wrote: >List, > >We had a request to place Outlook mail items in an MDB as they arrived at a help desk mail account (Exchange). Our developer put code in the Outlook NewMail event to grab the fields we want and put them in the MDB. Problem is this method requires the e-mail account be open (running on a PC) and the user(s) don't want a PC just to run this app. > >Is there a way to monitor an e-mail account or hook into Exchange to grab this account's new mail as it hits the Inbox without running through Outlook? Outlook VBA, VB, or Access 97 solutions are all viable for us. > >TIA, > >Jim DeMarco >Director Application Development >Hudson Health Plan > > > >*********************************************************************************** >"This electronic message is intended to be for the use only of the named recipient, and may contain information from Hudson Health Plan (HHP) that is confidential or privileged. If you are not the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any disclosure, copying, distribution or use of the contents of this message is strictly prohibited. If you have received this message in error or are not the named recipient, please notify us immediately, either by contacting the sender at the electronic mail address noted above or calling HHP at (914) 631-1611. If you are not the intended recipient, please do not forward this email to anyone, and delete and destroy all copies of this message. Thank You". >*********************************************************************************** > > > -- Marty Connelly Victoria, B.C. Canada -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com *********************************************************************************** "This electronic message is intended to be for the use only of the named recipient, and may contain information from Hudson Health Plan (HHP) that is confidential or privileged. If you are not the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any disclosure, copying, distribution or use of the contents of this message is strictly prohibited. If you have received this message in error or are not the named recipient, please notify us immediately, either by contacting the sender at the electronic mail address noted above or calling HHP at (914) 631-1611. If you are not the intended recipient, please do not forward this email to anyone, and delete and destroy all copies of this message. Thank You". *********************************************************************************** From MPorter at acsalaska.com Wed Mar 17 13:09:11 2004 From: MPorter at acsalaska.com (Porter, Mark) Date: Wed, 17 Mar 2004 10:09:11 -0900 Subject: [AccessD] Short Date Input Mask question Message-ID: My solution for wrist/arm pain was to learn to use the mouse left-handed. Back when I was working and consulting in the evenings, I would use the left hand at work and right hand in the evenings. Now I just switch off. Nothing but occasional soreness now and again for the last 4 years. Mark > -----Original Message----- > From: Charlotte Foust [mailto:cfoust at infostatsystems.com] > Sent: Wednesday, March 17, 2004 8:38 AM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: RE: [AccessD] Short Date Input Mask question > > > Hah! I got tendonitis in my thumb using a trackball. Had to > go back to > a mouse. That just shows that there is no single right answer. :-} > > Charlotte Foust > > -----Original Message----- > From: William Hindman [mailto:wdhindman at bellsouth.net] > Sent: Wednesday, March 17, 2004 9:25 AM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: Re: [AccessD] Short Date Input Mask question > > > ...shortcut keys/number pad activate each calendar function > ...and I've > got every client converted to trackballs instead of mice ...I used to > have severe CTS using a mouse but since moving to trackballs I've been > symptom free :) > > William Hindman > You know the world is upside down when Bill Clinton wins a Grammy and > Janet Jackson is the subject of a government sex investigation. Argus > Hamilton. > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Heenan, Lambert" > To: "'Access Developers discussion and problem solving'" > > Sent: Wednesday, March 17, 2004 10:52 AM > Subject: RE: [AccessD] Short Date Input Mask question > > > > Bryan, > > > > Point taken. This was why I made the comment about mass > data input. In > point > > of fact it is possible, though a bit clunky, to select a > date with the > > > keyboard, and I should perhaps revisit the design on the > form to make > > it easier to do so. > > > > RSI is a serious problem, and I sympathize with your for having to > > deal > with > > it. However it's not confined to mouse use, indeed I > remember it first > being > > reported back in the 80's before mice very prevalent. In those days > > the blame was laid at the door of the extreme ease with > which computer > keyboards > > operated vs. manual typewriters. This allowed for very rapid > > keystrokes, which was thought to be the root cause of RSI. > > > > I also see people who have bizarre ideas about how they should > > position their keyboards and mice. In short there are lots > of factors > > involved, and at the end of the day the user has to figure out the > > best way to use the d*mned machines. So, to reiterate, I think I'll > > take the time to redesign > my > > date picker form to allow for better keyboard use of it. > > > > Lambert > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > From: Bryan Carbonnell [SMTP:Bryan_Carbonnell at cbc.ca] > > > Sent: Wednesday, March 17, 2004 9:52 AM > > > To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com > > > Subject: RE: [AccessD] Short Date Input Mask question > > > > > > Lambert, > > > > > > It may work fine for you, but does it work for your users? Do you > > > force them to use the mouse to select the date, or can they do > > > everything they need to from the keyboard? > > > > > > The only reason I bring this up is that I have had RSI > from moving > > > between the mouse and keyboard for data entry too much. It got to > > > the point where by 10 AM I could not feel my little > finger and half > > > of my lower arm becaude of it. > > > > > > As soon as I got one application that I used on a regular > basis more > > > > keyboard friendly it helped. > > > > > > Just try to keep that in mind. I know I always do. I let > users use > > > the mouse or enter with the keyboard. Their choice. > > > > > > Bryan Carbonnell > > > bryan_carbonnell at cbc.ca > > > > > > > > > >>> Lambert.Heenan at AIG.com 17-Mar-04 9:21:45 AM >>> > > > My solution to date entry is simple - I never let user's > type in a > > > date. They always pick the date from a simple calendar > form (though > > > I don't use > > > the MS Calendar control). Click on a date field and up > pops the date > > > picker. > > > While this would not be suitable, perhaps, in applications where > > > massive > > > numbers of dates need to be entered, I find it works just fine for > me. > > > > > > Lambert > > > > > > -- > > > _______________________________________________ > > > AccessD mailing list > > > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > > > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > -- > > _______________________________________________ > > AccessD mailing list > > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > *********************************************************************************** 17/3/2004 This transmittal may contain confidential information intended solely for the addressee. If you are not the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that you have received this transmittal in error; any review, dissemination, distribution or copying of this transmittal is strictly prohibited. If you have received this communication in error, please notify us immediately by reply or by telephone (collect at 907-564-1000) and ask to speak with the message sender. In addition, please immediately delete this message and all attachments. Thank you. ACS From rl_stewart at highstream.net Wed Mar 17 13:10:34 2004 From: rl_stewart at highstream.net (Robert L. Stewart) Date: Wed, 17 Mar 2004 13:10:34 -0600 Subject: [AccessD] Re: Detecting when an Access Report has been closed In-Reply-To: <200403171800.i2HI0NM13633@databaseadvisors.com> Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20040317130626.029ede88@pop3.highstream.net> Rick, The simple way would be to set the value of a global variable. In the OnClose event of the report: gflgReportClosed = True In the OnOpen event of the report: gflgReportClosed = False In a regular module declarations section: Public gflgReportClosed as boolean Now, you can check from anywhere in the program to see if it is open or closed. Robert At 12:00 PM 3/17/2004 -0600, you wrote: >Date: Wed, 17 Mar 2004 09:30:06 -0800 (PST) >From: Dick Abo >Subject: [AccessD] RE: Detecting when an Access Report has been > closed >To: accessd at databaseAdvisors.com >Message-ID: <20040317173006.82738.qmail at web13009.mail.yahoo.com> >Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii > >Charlotte: > >A few days ago I posted a question dealing with the detection of when an >Access 2K generated reported has been closed by the user. I was referred >to the WithEvents keyword and sinking the close event of the report. I've >checked out some info in A2K on-line help and in the A97 ADH referencing >the topic of the 'WithEvents' keyword. > >The examples dealt with event sink classes for Microsoft Word and a >'frmWithEventsWatch' form. I'm not sure how automating to MS Word affects >an Access generated report. It appears to be more in-depth that I would >like to go at thie time. I expect that this may be the only time that I >will ever have to use this method. > >I also attempted to search the archives using 'WITHEVENTS' as the search >key, but I seemed to be unsuccessful at pulling up related examples and >material. > >Is there some sample code out there that deals with this topic and that >doesn't get too deep? > >Regards, > >Rick Abo From martyconnelly at shaw.ca Wed Mar 17 13:14:15 2004 From: martyconnelly at shaw.ca (MartyConnelly) Date: Wed, 17 Mar 2004 11:14:15 -0800 Subject: [AccessD] Slightly OT: Access/Office 2003 with Multilingual User Pack on Terminal Server/Citrix Metaframe References: Message-ID: <4058A387.4060805@shaw.ca> I do French or English input on the same Access 97 form by bringing up the windows xp language bar and testing or forcing a language switch on the keyboard depending on which textbox is active. This probably not the only way to do it. I am not sure how this would work via Citrix. Michael Br?sdorf wrote: >Dear group, > >one of my customers thinks it would be a good idea to install Office 2003 >along with a Multilingual User Pack on a Citrix Metaframe server to have >localized (that is English and German) user interfaces for all Office >applications. Unfortunately it is pretty hard to find any related info. Does >anyone have experience with such a configuration? > >TIA, > >Michael > > > -- Marty Connelly Victoria, B.C. Canada From gustav at cactus.dk Wed Mar 17 13:14:56 2004 From: gustav at cactus.dk (Gustav Brock) Date: Wed, 17 Mar 2004 20:14:56 +0100 Subject: [AccessD] RE: Detecting when an Access Report has been closed In-Reply-To: <20040317173006.82738.qmail@web13009.mail.yahoo.com> References: <20040317173006.82738.qmail@web13009.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <13741217677.20040317201456@cactus.dk> Hi Dick Well, it's about time to repost the link to the ultimate source on this topic. Study the articles and demos at the site of Shamil: http://smsconsulting.spb.ru/shamil_s/articles.htm /gustav > A few days ago I posted a question dealing with the detection of when an Access 2K generated reported has been closed by the user. I was referred to the WithEvents keyword and sinking the close > event of the report. I've checked out some info in A2K on-line help and in the A97 ADH referencing the topic of the 'WithEvents' keyword. > The examples dealt with event sink classes for Microsoft Word and a 'frmWithEventsWatch' form. I'm not sure how automating to MS Word affects an Access generated report. It appears to be more > in-depth that I would like to go at thie time. I expect that this may be the only time that I will ever have to use this method. > I also attempted to search the archives using 'WITHEVENTS' as the search key, but I seemed to be unsuccessful at pulling up related examples and material. > Is there some sample code out there that deals with this topic and that doesn't get too deep? > Regards, > Rick Abo From gustav at cactus.dk Wed Mar 17 13:19:42 2004 From: gustav at cactus.dk (Gustav Brock) Date: Wed, 17 Mar 2004 20:19:42 +0100 Subject: [AccessD] OT: Interfacing => Datamodel In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <11041503629.20040317201942@cactus.dk> Hi Sander > You may want to investigate BizTalk to assist you in this. If you are prepared to this, Ensemble from InterSystems could be interesting as well: http://www.intersystems.com/ensemble/index.html /gustav >> I need some info regarding interfacing (messages between 2 >> parties) not interfaces in VB , C++, etc.!! Could you please >> comment on this: >> >> Process: >> We receive and send interfaces (textfiles) with a specific >> layout. There are about 100 types of different messages. >> About 50 incoming and 50 outgoing. >> >> I've build a datamodel like this: >> Importing files: >> 1 table stores the data of the incoming file: (tblRawData) >> Fields: >> ID >> FileName >> MessageID (wich type of message is it?) >> MessageData >> Date >> Time >> >> 1 table has lay-out information regarding all messages: >> (tblMessageLayout) >> MessageID (Message Type) >> FieldName (different data fields) >> StartPosition (at what position is the data for the field stored) >> EndPosition (at what position is the data for the field stored) >> Mandatory (Is this a mandatory field?) >> >> 1 table with the layout as stored in the table above for >> every Message Type. (tblMessageX) >> To store the data of the interface file. I would have 100 of >> these tables >> >> Example: >> MessageType 10 has the following fields: >> Field StartPosition EndPosition Mandatory | Example data >> ID 1 8 YES >> | 12345678 >> CustID 9 15 YES | 100235 >> Street 16 35 NO | >> KennedyLane >> Housenr 36 38 NO | 15 >> etc >> etc >> >> The interface could look like this: >> 12345678100235KennedyLane15 >> 12345677100266St.Anna 6 >> 12345645100322blablabla 10 >> >> I want to store every line in the table tblRawData. After >> that I use the tblMessageLayout to export the data in >> tblRawData to tblMessage10 >> The table tblMessageLayout has (for Message 10) the following data: >> >> MessageID FieldName StartPosition EndPosition Mandatory >> 10 ID 1 8 >> Y >> 10 CustID 9 15 >> Y >> 10 Street 16 35 >> N >> etc >> >> >> Could this approach work? What didn't I think of? What are >> known traps for interfacing? From michael.broesdorf at web.de Wed Mar 17 13:29:38 2004 From: michael.broesdorf at web.de (=?iso-8859-1?Q?Michael_Br=F6sdorf?=) Date: Wed, 17 Mar 2004 20:29:38 +0100 Subject: AW: [AccessD] Slightly OT: Access/Office 2003 with Multilingual UserPack on Terminal Server/Citrix Metaframe In-Reply-To: <4058A387.4060805@shaw.ca> Message-ID: But that will change only the keyboard behaviour!? With the multilingual thingy you can change the language of the user interface (menu's, error messages etc.). From what I've heard so far switching to another language acutally replaced a couple of DLL's. Michael -----Urspr?ngliche Nachricht----- Von: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]Im Auftrag von MartyConnelly Gesendet: Mittwoch, 17. M?rz 2004 20:14 An: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Betreff: Re: [AccessD] Slightly OT: Access/Office 2003 with Multilingual UserPack on Terminal Server/Citrix Metaframe I do French or English input on the same Access 97 form by bringing up the windows xp language bar and testing or forcing a language switch on the keyboard depending on which textbox is active. This probably not the only way to do it. I am not sure how this would work via Citrix. Michael Br?sdorf wrote: >Dear group, > >one of my customers thinks it would be a good idea to install Office 2003 >along with a Multilingual User Pack on a Citrix Metaframe server to have >localized (that is English and German) user interfaces for all Office >applications. Unfortunately it is pretty hard to find any related info. Does >anyone have experience with such a configuration? > >TIA, > >Michael > > > -- Marty Connelly Victoria, B.C. Canada -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From rusty.hammond at cpiqpc.com Wed Mar 17 13:30:10 2004 From: rusty.hammond at cpiqpc.com (rusty.hammond at cpiqpc.com) Date: Wed, 17 Mar 2004 13:30:10 -0600 Subject: [AccessD] OT Wrist/Arm Pain - was Short Date Input Mask quest ion Message-ID: <8301C8A868251E4C8ECD3D4FFEA40F8A0811A98B@cpixchng-1.cpiqpc.net> I've switched my mouse to left handed at work as well. What has really helped the most for me is a quick set of wrist excercises I do each morning. Takes about 2 minutes to do. -----Original Message----- From: Porter, Mark [mailto:MPorter at acsalaska.com] Sent: Wednesday, March 17, 2004 1:09 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: [AccessD] Short Date Input Mask question My solution for wrist/arm pain was to learn to use the mouse left-handed. Back when I was working and consulting in the evenings, I would use the left hand at work and right hand in the evenings. Now I just switch off. Nothing but occasional soreness now and again for the last 4 years. Mark > -----Original Message----- > From: Charlotte Foust [mailto:cfoust at infostatsystems.com] > Sent: Wednesday, March 17, 2004 8:38 AM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: RE: [AccessD] Short Date Input Mask question > > > Hah! I got tendonitis in my thumb using a trackball. Had to > go back to > a mouse. That just shows that there is no single right answer. :-} > > Charlotte Foust > > -----Original Message----- > From: William Hindman [mailto:wdhindman at bellsouth.net] > Sent: Wednesday, March 17, 2004 9:25 AM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: Re: [AccessD] Short Date Input Mask question > > > ...shortcut keys/number pad activate each calendar function > ...and I've > got every client converted to trackballs instead of mice ...I used to > have severe CTS using a mouse but since moving to trackballs I've been > symptom free :) > > William Hindman > You know the world is upside down when Bill Clinton wins a Grammy and > Janet Jackson is the subject of a government sex investigation. Argus > Hamilton. > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Heenan, Lambert" > To: "'Access Developers discussion and problem solving'" > > Sent: Wednesday, March 17, 2004 10:52 AM > Subject: RE: [AccessD] Short Date Input Mask question > > > > Bryan, > > > > Point taken. This was why I made the comment about mass > data input. In > point > > of fact it is possible, though a bit clunky, to select a > date with the > > > keyboard, and I should perhaps revisit the design on the > form to make > > it easier to do so. > > > > RSI is a serious problem, and I sympathize with your for having to > > deal > with > > it. However it's not confined to mouse use, indeed I > remember it first > being > > reported back in the 80's before mice very prevalent. In those days > > the blame was laid at the door of the extreme ease with > which computer > keyboards > > operated vs. manual typewriters. This allowed for very rapid > > keystrokes, which was thought to be the root cause of RSI. > > > > I also see people who have bizarre ideas about how they should > > position their keyboards and mice. In short there are lots > of factors > > involved, and at the end of the day the user has to figure out the > > best way to use the d*mned machines. So, to reiterate, I think I'll > > take the time to redesign > my > > date picker form to allow for better keyboard use of it. > > > > Lambert > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > From: Bryan Carbonnell [SMTP:Bryan_Carbonnell at cbc.ca] > > > Sent: Wednesday, March 17, 2004 9:52 AM > > > To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com > > > Subject: RE: [AccessD] Short Date Input Mask question > > > > > > Lambert, > > > > > > It may work fine for you, but does it work for your users? Do you > > > force them to use the mouse to select the date, or can they do > > > everything they need to from the keyboard? > > > > > > The only reason I bring this up is that I have had RSI > from moving > > > between the mouse and keyboard for data entry too much. It got to > > > the point where by 10 AM I could not feel my little > finger and half > > > of my lower arm becaude of it. > > > > > > As soon as I got one application that I used on a regular > basis more > > > > keyboard friendly it helped. > > > > > > Just try to keep that in mind. I know I always do. I let > users use > > > the mouse or enter with the keyboard. Their choice. > > > > > > Bryan Carbonnell > > > bryan_carbonnell at cbc.ca > > > > > > > > > >>> Lambert.Heenan at AIG.com 17-Mar-04 9:21:45 AM >>> > > > My solution to date entry is simple - I never let user's > type in a > > > date. They always pick the date from a simple calendar > form (though > > > I don't use > > > the MS Calendar control). Click on a date field and up > pops the date > > > picker. > > > While this would not be suitable, perhaps, in applications where > > > massive > > > numbers of dates need to be entered, I find it works just fine for > me. > > > > > > Lambert > > > > > > -- > > > _______________________________________________ > > > AccessD mailing list > > > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > > > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > -- > > _______________________________________________ > > AccessD mailing list > > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > **************************************************************************** ******* 17/3/2004 This transmittal may contain confidential information intended solely for the addressee. If you are not the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that you have received this transmittal in error; any review, dissemination, distribution or copying of this transmittal is strictly prohibited. If you have received this communication in error, please notify us immediately by reply or by telephone (collect at 907-564-1000) and ask to speak with the message sender. In addition, please immediately delete this message and all attachments. Thank you. ACS -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From DWUTKA at marlow.com Wed Mar 17 13:38:48 2004 From: DWUTKA at marlow.com (DWUTKA at marlow.com) Date: Wed, 17 Mar 2004 13:38:48 -0600 Subject: [AccessD] Terminal Server and Access XP Message-ID: <2F8793082E00D4119A1700B0D0216BF802227982@main2.marlow.com> I would make the users part of the power users group on the TS. Drew -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Lonnie Johnson Sent: Tuesday, March 16, 2004 2:57 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] Terminal Server and Access XP No, fairly novice. The admin actually has the terminal servers' desktop hidden and they come straight into a web page that gives them their windows and web application options. DWUTKA at marlow.com wrote:If it works logged in as an Admin, then it's a permissions issue. Are the logged in users 'power users'? Drew -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Lonnie Johnson Sent: Tuesday, March 16, 2004 7:04 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] Terminal Server and Access XP Nope. I was kinda hoping there was. It works if we log onto the terminal server as administrator, but not as a regular user. Would this be at the registry level? DWUTKA at marlow.com wrote:Any missing references? Drew -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Lonnie Johnson Sent: Monday, March 15, 2004 3:56 PM To: 'MS-ACCESS-L at lists.missouri.edu'; AccessDevelopers; ms_access; AccessD solving' Subject: [AccessD] Terminal Server and Access XP Users are getting a "Run-Time error 13, type mis match" when the application tries to cycle through some controls with the following: Dim ctl as Control For Each ctl in Me.Controls... This works fine in A97 and XP on regular machines. It even works for the administrator on a terminal server machine, but not regular users on terminal server. Anyone have a clue????????? Lonnie Johnson ProDev, Professional Development of MS Access Databases Visit me at ==> http://www.prodev.us Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Mail - More reliable, more storage, less spam -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com Lonnie Johnson ProDev, Professional Development of MS Access Databases Visit me at ==> http://www.prodev.us Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Mail - More reliable, more storage, less spam -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com Lonnie Johnson ProDev, Professional Development of MS Access Databases Visit me at ==> http://www.prodev.us Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Mail - More reliable, more storage, less spam -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From DWUTKA at marlow.com Wed Mar 17 13:40:30 2004 From: DWUTKA at marlow.com (DWUTKA at marlow.com) Date: Wed, 17 Mar 2004 13:40:30 -0600 Subject: [AccessD] Short Date Input Mask question Message-ID: <2F8793082E00D4119A1700B0D0216BF802227983@main2.marlow.com> If it makes you feel any better JC, I don't read the posts you take hours writing.... Just kidding. I do read most of them. Too busy to read everything lately... Drew -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of John W. Colby Sent: Tuesday, March 16, 2004 4:35 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] Short Date Input Mask question Stuart, that is a silly thing to say, and exactly the reason that I can't help but wonder whether anyone at all reads the posts I spend hours writing and writing example code for. Of course "Access does that just fine by itself if you set the format property to "d mmm yyyyy". And now, WE (you and I) have an application where our respective clients say "I hate that format". I don't know what You do but I go into my sysvar table and change a SysVar. The next time the app opens all date fields are formatted however the client wants. What exactly DO you do? To a man with a search and replace program.... Shall I just abandon my attempts to educate this list about what frameworks can do? Seems a shame, but it sure appears I've wasted about 30 hours so far. John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Stuart McLachlan Sent: Tuesday, March 16, 2004 5:10 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problemsolving Subject: RE: [AccessD] Short Date Input Mask question On 16 Mar 2004 at 15:40, John W. Colby wrote: > A great case for a framework. Define the various formats you use in your > text boxes and then tell the framework to figure out that it's a date and > apply a format. > To a man with a hammer....... :-) Access does that just fine by itself if you set the format property to "d mmm yyyyy" or whatever you want in the particular situation. -- Lexacorp Ltd http://www.lexacorp.com.pg Information Technology Consultancy, Software Development,System Support. -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From jwelz at hotmail.com Wed Mar 17 13:45:29 2004 From: jwelz at hotmail.com (Jürgen Welz) Date: Wed, 17 Mar 2004 12:45:29 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] Short Date Input Mask question Message-ID: At one point a few years ago at this list I made a similar comment saying I provided a doubleclick pop up calendar and received a similar response. As a result, I once logged usage of: Double click pop up calendar vs Key down with form key preview on, Alt-d pops calendar if screen active control had a standard input mask property. I also considered a keyboard autokeys macro call a runcode that did the same thing but never did implement this version. Logging indicated that well over 98% of the data entry was by double click popup calendar. Granted these were very 'unsophisticated' users but the majority of their daily tasks involved interaction with the application. I do not believe that providing a pop up calendar is incorrect especially as the users can tab into a date field and use a keyboard in any event. IIRC, I had changed the display format and input mask dynamically in the past so that a user could key in 'mm/dd/yy' but the display format whenever the control didn't have focus was 'mmm/dd/yyyy'. I also added a label displaying the input format at each date entry textbox so there was never a question as to the required input sequence. I also believe that one of the reasons that my users like my pop up calendar is because it also displays appointments and blocked off dates for that user and other office staff (selected in multiselect list). It can be popped by keyboard or by doubleclick and can be navigated by mouse or cursor or page keys (for months) and you can tab into a year textbox. The months are each on a tab wtih Alt-character navigation and cursoring down past the end of one month moves to the next month (and up to previous). Finally, the Enter keys accepts the date, sets the source textbox and dismisses the calendar and the Escape key dismisses the calendar without setting or changing a date. I am a firm believer in always providing a keyboard navigation method, but that never precludes adding a mouse alternative that does exactly the same thing. A pop up calendar can be entirely keyboard controlled at a cost of a few extra keystrokes for the rich graphical information that it can present. And just because it's there doesn't mean a user ever has to use it. It just turns out that my experience is that they will even though I have a prejudice for preferring to use the keyboard wherever possible. I suspect this prejudice afflicts most programmers. If only browers were more keyboard friendly. Ciao J?rgen Welz Edmonton, Alberta jwelz at hotmail.com >From: Brett Barabash > >I bet the data entry people love you! > >It may "work for you", but I'll bet that there are some users out there >that >feel otherwise. One of my biggest UI pet peeves is fields that disallow >keyboard entry. One record or 1000 records, it's still annoying to move >your hand off of the home row of your keyboard and click around to select a >date. > > >-----Original Message----- >From: Heenan, Lambert [mailto:Lambert.Heenan at aig.com] >Sent: Wednesday, March 17, 2004 8:22 AM >To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' >Subject: RE: [AccessD] Short Date Input Mask question > > >My solution to date entry is simple - I never let user's type in a date. >They always pick the date from a simple calendar form (though I don't use >the MS Calendar control). Click on a date field and up pops the date >picker. >While this would not be suitable, perhaps, in applications where massive >numbers of dates need to be entered, I find it works just fine for me. > >Lambert > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: Arthur Fuller [SMTP:artful at rogers.com] > > Sent: Tuesday, March 16, 2004 5:47 PM > > To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' > > Subject: [AccessD] Short Date Input Mask question > > > > The standard short date input mask (99/99/0000;0;_) has a shortcoming > > that I hate: you have to type 04/04/04 to get April 4th 2004. The year > > handling is nice but the month and day suck. The mask won't let you type > > 4/4/04. Is there an alternative mask that will respond intelligently to > > such input? Or should I instead just remove all the input masks from all > > the date fields? > > > > TIA, > > Arthur _________________________________________________________________ Find a broadband plan that fits. Great local deals on high-speed Internet access. http://click.atdmt.com/AVE/go/onm00200360ave/direct/01/ From DWUTKA at marlow.com Wed Mar 17 13:45:55 2004 From: DWUTKA at marlow.com (DWUTKA at marlow.com) Date: Wed, 17 Mar 2004 13:45:55 -0600 Subject: [AccessD] Re: [Private] Framework Discussion - Dependent Obje cts Message-ID: <2F8793082E00D4119A1700B0D0216BF802227985@main2.marlow.com> Gustav, Gustav, Gustav....you need to invest in VB 6. You could probably get it dirt cheap on eBay, and with your skills, you'll pick it up in a heart beat. A lot of people peg me as a VBer, simply because I use VB a lot. However, I'm all for the right tool for the right job. VB is just another tool. Now, if I could somehow merge the advantages of VB, with the advantages in Access, I would be a VERY happy camper! Drew -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Gustav Brock Sent: Wednesday, March 17, 2004 3:15 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Re: [Private] Framework Discussion - Dependent Obje cts Hi Drew Yes, that makes sense to me, though I don't have any tools to program dlls. I have some very general and well proven functions which I simply keep collected in some modules which I copy-paste into a new project as needed - not very fancy, I know, but it works. /gustav > I'm in the same situation as you. I find that building a 'framework' isn't > worth the effort, because I have to develop very diverse GUI's. It's not a > matter of re-using features, it's a matter of building specific features to > handle the task at hand. > At my full time job, however, I have found that one of the best practices I > can stick too, is to develop applications as 'stand-alone' objects, yet > leave room for interaction. So if I develop a library application for our > Drafting department, and later I develop a modeling package for the > engineers, if I need access to the drafting library, I can just 'reference' > the drafting department's .dll's. Makes life a lot easier. To me, that's > what I call a framework. It's not a generic thing from a functionality > standpoint, but more of a generic thing from a usability standpoint. > Make sense? -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From DWUTKA at marlow.com Wed Mar 17 13:47:48 2004 From: DWUTKA at marlow.com (DWUTKA at marlow.com) Date: Wed, 17 Mar 2004 13:47:48 -0600 Subject: Code Library: RE: [AccessD] Re: [Private] Framework Discussion - Dependent Obje cts Message-ID: <2F8793082E00D4119A1700B0D0216BF802227986@main2.marlow.com> Just recovered for a very NASTY crash of my RAID 5 data drive. I have toyed around with a code library of sorts before, but this recent headache is giving a serious push into digging into that project again. Anyone interested in helping out/beta testing? Drew -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of William Hindman Sent: Wednesday, March 17, 2004 7:32 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Re: [Private] Framework Discussion - Dependent Obje cts "some very general and well proven functions which I simply keep collected in some modules which I copy-paste into a new project as needed - not very fancy, I know, but it works." gustav ...me too :) ...I tried JC's framework a couple years ago and, for me, found myself putting as much or more effort into it as I was client apps ...but otoh banging around in his framework taught me "with events" coding and many other techniques that I can't imagine not using in every app today ...I'm clearly not nearly as disciplined about coding as JC, Jurgen, Shamil and some other gurus here are so I just make do with a template mdb much as you describe. :) William Hindman You know the world is upside down when Bill Clinton wins a Grammy and Janet Jackson is the subject of a government sex investigation. Argus Hamilton. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Gustav Brock" To: "Access Developers discussion and problem solving" Sent: Wednesday, March 17, 2004 4:14 AM Subject: Re: [AccessD] Re: [Private] Framework Discussion - Dependent Obje cts > Hi Drew > > Yes, that makes sense to me, though I don't have any tools to program > dlls. I have some very general and well proven functions which I > simply keep collected in some modules which I copy-paste into a new > project as needed - not very fancy, I know, but it works. > > /gustav > > > I'm in the same situation as you. I find that building a 'framework' isn't > > worth the effort, because I have to develop very diverse GUI's. It's not a > > matter of re-using features, it's a matter of building specific features to > > handle the task at hand. > > > At my full time job, however, I have found that one of the best practices I > > can stick too, is to develop applications as 'stand-alone' objects, yet > > leave room for interaction. So if I develop a library application for our > > Drafting department, and later I develop a modeling package for the > > engineers, if I need access to the drafting library, I can just 'reference' > > the drafting department's .dll's. Makes life a lot easier. To me, that's > > what I call a framework. It's not a generic thing from a functionality > > standpoint, but more of a generic thing from a usability standpoint. > > > Make sense? > > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From DWUTKA at marlow.com Wed Mar 17 13:50:45 2004 From: DWUTKA at marlow.com (DWUTKA at marlow.com) Date: Wed, 17 Mar 2004 13:50:45 -0600 Subject: [AccessD] Short Date Input Mask question Message-ID: <2F8793082E00D4119A1700B0D0216BF802227988@main2.marlow.com> Exactly why my 'new' MiniCalendar is keyboard friendly. Had a lot of complaints about that. Drew -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Bryan Carbonnell Sent: Wednesday, March 17, 2004 8:52 AM To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: RE: [AccessD] Short Date Input Mask question Lambert, It may work fine for you, but does it work for your users? Do you force them to use the mouse to select the date, or can they do everything they need to from the keyboard? The only reason I bring this up is that I have had RSI from moving between the mouse and keyboard for data entry too much. It got to the point where by 10 AM I could not feel my little finger and half of my lower arm becaude of it. As soon as I got one application that I used on a regular basis more keyboard friendly it helped. Just try to keep that in mind. I know I always do. I let users use the mouse or enter with the keyboard. Their choice. Bryan Carbonnell bryan_carbonnell at cbc.ca >>> Lambert.Heenan at AIG.com 17-Mar-04 9:21:45 AM >>> My solution to date entry is simple - I never let user's type in a date. They always pick the date from a simple calendar form (though I don't use the MS Calendar control). Click on a date field and up pops the date picker. While this would not be suitable, perhaps, in applications where massive numbers of dates need to be entered, I find it works just fine for me. Lambert -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From martyconnelly at shaw.ca Wed Mar 17 14:00:45 2004 From: martyconnelly at shaw.ca (MartyConnelly) Date: Wed, 17 Mar 2004 12:00:45 -0800 Subject: [AccessD] Access 2003 Developer Edition? References: <002101c40c4c$4fc11c00$bf00a8c0@dabsight> <012801c40c4f$cdf39960$6601a8c0@HAL9002> Message-ID: <4058AE6D.1080901@shaw.ca> I think you can just stick the ODE97 CD-ROM in the drive or maybe just copy it to a hard drive as a backup It may still ask for the key though. I do this with a 97 upgrade and have copied all the Access 2 floppy install disks to a hard drive directory. MS searchs it out on the install. Rocky Smolin - Beach Access Software wrote: >John: > >DO you know if I have to have the ODE97 installed to install the Visual >Studio Tools for the Microsoft Office System upgrade? Or will it just ask >for a CD key, maybe? > >Rocky > >----- Original Message ----- >From: "DJK(John) Robinson" >To: "'Access Developers discussion and problem solving'" > >Sent: Wednesday, March 17, 2004 10:18 AM >Subject: RE: [AccessD] Access 2003 Developer Edition? > > > > >>[Visual Studio Tools for the Microsoft Office System] >> >>Yes, there is a "tools upgrade" price: 60% off the Full price. Rocky's >>ODE97 will qualify him for it. See: >>http://msdn.microsoft.com/vstudio/howtobuy/officetools/ >> >>Access 2003 Developer Extensions, VB .NET Standard Edition, and SQLS 2000 >>Developer Edition are included in VST4MSOS. As Marty said, see: >>http://msdn.microsoft.com/vstudio/office/ >> >> >>The different *Office* 2003 editions are listed in: >>http://www.microsoft.com/office/editions/howtobuy/compare.mspx >> >> >>No personal experience yet of the Package Wizard, but I've heard good >>reports of it. >> >>HTH >>John >> >> >> >> >>>-----Original Message----- >>>From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com >>>[mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of >>>Charlotte Foust >>>Sent: 17 March 2004 16:06 >>>To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving >>>Subject: RE: [AccessD] Access 2003 Developer Edition? >>> >>> >>>I don't think there is a "tools upgrade" price, Rocky. A >>>developer license gives you the right to upgrade to Pro or >>>Premium (I can't keep the versions straight) in 2003. I >>>never saw an upgrade path to the VSTO package anywhere I >>>looked. Developer gives you an upgrade path to Visual >>>Studio.Net, I believe, but the VSTO is a separate package. >>> >>>Charlotte Foust >>> >>>-----Original Message----- >>>From: Rocky Smolin - Beach Access Software [mailto:bchacc at san.rr.com] >>>Sent: Tuesday, March 16, 2004 8:58 PM >>>To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving >>>Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access 2003 Developer Edition? >>> >>> >>>Marty: >>> >>>A couple of weeks ago I was asking about deploying an Access >>>product and trying to decide whether to go with Wise/Sagekey >>>A2K script with an A2K mde. But I'd have to buy the A2K >>>developer edition. as well as the Sagekey script. >>> >>>Now it appears, IIUC, that I could buy Office 2003 and the >>>Office Developer Tools (I've got A97 Developer license so I >>>could get the Tools upgrade price, I think), and use the >>>Developer Tools packaging wizard. >>> >>>>From the article it appears that the Packaging Wizard is pretty good. >>> >>> >>>>I >>>> >>>> >>>didn't detect any of the 'it really stinks' kind of review of >>>earlier Access packagers. >>> >>>Has you or anyone had any experience with it yet? Is it a >>>reasonable alternative? It probably would have a longer life >>>than going with an A2K solution. One requirement I see is >>>that the target machine has to have W2K or WXP but that >>>shouldn't be too much of a problem as time goes on. >>> >>>Regards, >>> >>>Rocky Smolin >>>Beach Access Software >>>http://www.e-z-mrp.com >>> >>> >>>----- Original Message ----- >>>From: "MartyConnelly" >>>To: "Access Developers discussion and problem solving" >>> >>>Sent: Monday, March 15, 2004 11:30 AM >>>Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access 2003 Developer Edition? >>> >>> >>> >>> >>>>The Access 2003 runtime ships with any version of Office >>>> >>>> >>>2003 that has >>> >>> >>>>Access 2003, the license to redistribute solutions with the Access >>>>runtime is available exclusively through the Access Developer >>>>Extensions. The Access Developer Extensions include the >>>> >>>> >>>Package Wizard >>> >>> >>>>and other developer-oriented tools. The Package Wizard creates a >>>>package based on an Access 2003 solution that users can install and >>>>uninstall with the Microsoft Windows Installer. You can >>>> >>>> >>>only acquire >>> >>> >>>>the Access Developer Extensions by buying the "Visual Studio Tools >>>>for the Microsoft Office System". >>>>http://msdn.microsoft.com/vstudio/office >>>> >>>> >>>> Packaging Access 2003 Solutions Rick Dobson >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >http://msdn.microsoft.com/library/default.asp?url=/library/en-us/dnsmart03/h > > >>tml/sa03j8.asp >> >> >>>Michael Br?sdorf wrote: >>> >>> >>> >>>>Hello, >>>> >>>>I noticed that there seems to no more Office 2003 Developers Edition. >>>>Is >>>> >>>> >>it >> >> >>>>still possible to create Run-Time applications with Access 2003? ` >>>>Michael >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>-- >>>Marty Connelly >>>Victoria, B.C. >>>Canada >>> >>> >>> >>-- >>_______________________________________________ >>AccessD mailing list >>AccessD at databaseadvisors.com >>http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd >>Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com >>-- >>_______________________________________________ >>AccessD mailing list >>AccessD at databaseadvisors.com >>http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd >>Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com >> >> >> > > > -- Marty Connelly Victoria, B.C. Canada From gustav at cactus.dk Wed Mar 17 13:59:38 2004 From: gustav at cactus.dk (Gustav Brock) Date: Wed, 17 Mar 2004 20:59:38 +0100 Subject: [AccessD] Re: [Private] Framework Discussion - Dependent Obje cts In-Reply-To: <2F8793082E00D4119A1700B0D0216BF802227985@main2.marlow.com> References: <2F8793082E00D4119A1700B0D0216BF802227985@main2.marlow.com> Message-ID: <15843899994.20040317205938@cactus.dk> Hi Drew Oh, so much to do and so little time. Right now I'm trying getting around the OO/SQL Cach? database engine. Extremely interesting but very different. My head is stuffed. /gustav > Gustav, Gustav, Gustav....you need to invest in VB 6. You could probably > get it dirt cheap on eBay, and with your skills, you'll pick it up in a > heart beat. > A lot of people peg me as a VBer, simply because I use VB a lot. However, > I'm all for the right tool for the right job. VB is just another tool. > Now, if I could somehow merge the advantages of VB, with the advantages in > Access, I would be a VERY happy camper! > Drew > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Gustav Brock > Sent: Wednesday, March 17, 2004 3:15 AM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: Re: [AccessD] Re: [Private] Framework Discussion - Dependent > Obje cts > Hi Drew > Yes, that makes sense to me, though I don't have any tools to program > dlls. I have some very general and well proven functions which I > simply keep collected in some modules which I copy-paste into a new > project as needed - not very fancy, I know, but it works. > /gustav From wdhindman at bellsouth.net Wed Mar 17 14:19:18 2004 From: wdhindman at bellsouth.net (William Hindman) Date: Wed, 17 Mar 2004 15:19:18 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Short Date Input Mask question References: Message-ID: <004f01c40c5d$207559f0$6101a8c0@dejpolsys> ...hhhmmm ...I use the Logitech marble with my left hand ...only thumb use is for a right click :) William Hindman You know the world is upside down when Bill Clinton wins a Grammy and Janet Jackson is the subject of a government sex investigation. Argus Hamilton. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Charlotte Foust" To: "Access Developers discussion and problem solving" Sent: Wednesday, March 17, 2004 12:37 PM Subject: RE: [AccessD] Short Date Input Mask question > Hah! I got tendonitis in my thumb using a trackball. Had to go back to > a mouse. That just shows that there is no single right answer. :-} > > Charlotte Foust > > -----Original Message----- > From: William Hindman [mailto:wdhindman at bellsouth.net] > Sent: Wednesday, March 17, 2004 9:25 AM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: Re: [AccessD] Short Date Input Mask question > > > ...shortcut keys/number pad activate each calendar function ...and I've > got every client converted to trackballs instead of mice ...I used to > have severe CTS using a mouse but since moving to trackballs I've been > symptom free :) > > William Hindman > You know the world is upside down when Bill Clinton wins a Grammy and > Janet Jackson is the subject of a government sex investigation. Argus > Hamilton. > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Heenan, Lambert" > To: "'Access Developers discussion and problem solving'" > > Sent: Wednesday, March 17, 2004 10:52 AM > Subject: RE: [AccessD] Short Date Input Mask question > > > > Bryan, > > > > Point taken. This was why I made the comment about mass data input. In > point > > of fact it is possible, though a bit clunky, to select a date with the > > > keyboard, and I should perhaps revisit the design on the form to make > > it easier to do so. > > > > RSI is a serious problem, and I sympathize with your for having to > > deal > with > > it. However it's not confined to mouse use, indeed I remember it first > being > > reported back in the 80's before mice very prevalent. In those days > > the blame was laid at the door of the extreme ease with which computer > keyboards > > operated vs. manual typewriters. This allowed for very rapid > > keystrokes, which was thought to be the root cause of RSI. > > > > I also see people who have bizarre ideas about how they should > > position their keyboards and mice. In short there are lots of factors > > involved, and at the end of the day the user has to figure out the > > best way to use the d*mned machines. So, to reiterate, I think I'll > > take the time to redesign > my > > date picker form to allow for better keyboard use of it. > > > > Lambert > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > From: Bryan Carbonnell [SMTP:Bryan_Carbonnell at cbc.ca] > > > Sent: Wednesday, March 17, 2004 9:52 AM > > > To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com > > > Subject: RE: [AccessD] Short Date Input Mask question > > > > > > Lambert, > > > > > > It may work fine for you, but does it work for your users? Do you > > > force them to use the mouse to select the date, or can they do > > > everything they need to from the keyboard? > > > > > > The only reason I bring this up is that I have had RSI from moving > > > between the mouse and keyboard for data entry too much. It got to > > > the point where by 10 AM I could not feel my little finger and half > > > of my lower arm becaude of it. > > > > > > As soon as I got one application that I used on a regular basis more > > > > keyboard friendly it helped. > > > > > > Just try to keep that in mind. I know I always do. I let users use > > > the mouse or enter with the keyboard. Their choice. > > > > > > Bryan Carbonnell > > > bryan_carbonnell at cbc.ca > > > > > > > > > >>> Lambert.Heenan at AIG.com 17-Mar-04 9:21:45 AM >>> > > > My solution to date entry is simple - I never let user's type in a > > > date. They always pick the date from a simple calendar form (though > > > I don't use > > > the MS Calendar control). Click on a date field and up pops the date > > > picker. > > > While this would not be suitable, perhaps, in applications where > > > massive > > > numbers of dates need to be entered, I find it works just fine for > me. > > > > > > Lambert > > > > > > -- > > > _______________________________________________ > > > AccessD mailing list > > > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > > > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > -- > > _______________________________________________ > > AccessD mailing list > > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From wdhindman at bellsouth.net Wed Mar 17 14:24:00 2004 From: wdhindman at bellsouth.net (William Hindman) Date: Wed, 17 Mar 2004 15:24:00 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] OT Wrist/Arm Pain - was Short Date Input Mask quest ion References: <8301C8A868251E4C8ECD3D4FFEA40F8A0811A98B@cpixchng-1.cpiqpc.net> Message-ID: <005a01c40c5d$ca74f190$6101a8c0@dejpolsys> ...I do the wrist exercises as well ...together with using a Logitech marble mouse and switching hands regularly during long sessions, I've not had any recurrence of severe, disabling CTS in my right wrist/arm/shoulder that three docs assured me the only cure for was surgery to cut the tendons in my wrist ...so much for getting second opinions :( William Hindman You know the world is upside down when Bill Clinton wins a Grammy and Janet Jackson is the subject of a government sex investigation. Argus Hamilton. ----- Original Message ----- From: To: Sent: Wednesday, March 17, 2004 2:30 PM Subject: RE: [AccessD] OT Wrist/Arm Pain - was Short Date Input Mask quest ion > I've switched my mouse to left handed at work as well. What has really > helped the most for me is a quick set of wrist excercises I do each morning. > Takes about 2 minutes to do. > > -----Original Message----- > From: Porter, Mark [mailto:MPorter at acsalaska.com] > Sent: Wednesday, March 17, 2004 1:09 PM > To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' > Subject: RE: [AccessD] Short Date Input Mask question > > > My solution for wrist/arm pain was to learn to use the mouse left-handed. > Back when I was working and consulting in the evenings, I would use the left > hand at work and right hand in the evenings. > > Now I just switch off. Nothing but occasional soreness now and again for > the last 4 years. > > Mark > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: Charlotte Foust [mailto:cfoust at infostatsystems.com] > > Sent: Wednesday, March 17, 2004 8:38 AM > > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > > Subject: RE: [AccessD] Short Date Input Mask question > > > > > > Hah! I got tendonitis in my thumb using a trackball. Had to > > go back to > > a mouse. That just shows that there is no single right answer. :-} > > > > Charlotte Foust > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: William Hindman [mailto:wdhindman at bellsouth.net] > > Sent: Wednesday, March 17, 2004 9:25 AM > > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > > Subject: Re: [AccessD] Short Date Input Mask question > > > > > > ...shortcut keys/number pad activate each calendar function > > ...and I've > > got every client converted to trackballs instead of mice ...I used to > > have severe CTS using a mouse but since moving to trackballs I've been > > symptom free :) > > > > William Hindman > > You know the world is upside down when Bill Clinton wins a Grammy and > > Janet Jackson is the subject of a government sex investigation. Argus > > Hamilton. > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: "Heenan, Lambert" > > To: "'Access Developers discussion and problem solving'" > > > > Sent: Wednesday, March 17, 2004 10:52 AM > > Subject: RE: [AccessD] Short Date Input Mask question > > > > > > > Bryan, > > > > > > Point taken. This was why I made the comment about mass > > data input. In > > point > > > of fact it is possible, though a bit clunky, to select a > > date with the > > > > > keyboard, and I should perhaps revisit the design on the > > form to make > > > it easier to do so. > > > > > > RSI is a serious problem, and I sympathize with your for having to > > > deal > > with > > > it. However it's not confined to mouse use, indeed I > > remember it first > > being > > > reported back in the 80's before mice very prevalent. In those days > > > the blame was laid at the door of the extreme ease with > > which computer > > keyboards > > > operated vs. manual typewriters. This allowed for very rapid > > > keystrokes, which was thought to be the root cause of RSI. > > > > > > I also see people who have bizarre ideas about how they should > > > position their keyboards and mice. In short there are lots > > of factors > > > involved, and at the end of the day the user has to figure out the > > > best way to use the d*mned machines. So, to reiterate, I think I'll > > > take the time to redesign > > my > > > date picker form to allow for better keyboard use of it. > > > > > > Lambert > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > > From: Bryan Carbonnell [SMTP:Bryan_Carbonnell at cbc.ca] > > > > Sent: Wednesday, March 17, 2004 9:52 AM > > > > To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com > > > > Subject: RE: [AccessD] Short Date Input Mask question > > > > > > > > Lambert, > > > > > > > > It may work fine for you, but does it work for your users? Do you > > > > force them to use the mouse to select the date, or can they do > > > > everything they need to from the keyboard? > > > > > > > > The only reason I bring this up is that I have had RSI > > from moving > > > > between the mouse and keyboard for data entry too much. It got to > > > > the point where by 10 AM I could not feel my little > > finger and half > > > > of my lower arm becaude of it. > > > > > > > > As soon as I got one application that I used on a regular > > basis more > > > > > > keyboard friendly it helped. > > > > > > > > Just try to keep that in mind. I know I always do. I let > > users use > > > > the mouse or enter with the keyboard. Their choice. > > > > > > > > Bryan Carbonnell > > > > bryan_carbonnell at cbc.ca > > > > > > > > > > > > >>> Lambert.Heenan at AIG.com 17-Mar-04 9:21:45 AM >>> > > > > My solution to date entry is simple - I never let user's > > type in a > > > > date. They always pick the date from a simple calendar > > form (though > > > > I don't use > > > > the MS Calendar control). Click on a date field and up > > pops the date > > > > picker. > > > > While this would not be suitable, perhaps, in applications where > > > > massive > > > > numbers of dates need to be entered, I find it works just fine for > > me. > > > > > > > > Lambert > > > > > > > > -- > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > > AccessD mailing list > > > > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > > > > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > -- > > > _______________________________________________ > > > AccessD mailing list > > > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > > > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > > > > > > -- > > _______________________________________________ > > AccessD mailing list > > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > -- > > _______________________________________________ > > AccessD mailing list > > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > > > > > **************************************************************************** > ******* > 17/3/2004 > This transmittal may contain confidential information intended solely for > the addressee. If you are not the intended recipient, you are hereby > notified that you have received this transmittal in error; any review, > dissemination, distribution or copying of this transmittal is strictly > prohibited. If you have received this communication in error, please notify > us immediately by reply or by telephone (collect at 907-564-1000) and ask to > speak with the message sender. In addition, please immediately delete this > message and all attachments. Thank you. ACS > > > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > From djkr at msn.com Wed Mar 17 14:33:03 2004 From: djkr at msn.com (DJK(John) Robinson) Date: Wed, 17 Mar 2004 20:33:03 -0000 Subject: [AccessD] Access 2003 Developer Edition? In-Reply-To: <012801c40c4f$cdf39960$6601a8c0@HAL9002> Message-ID: <000201c40c5f$0bd7b950$bf00a8c0@dabsight> Sorry, Rocky, I don't know, and can't check. Mine's the full product. John > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of > Rocky Smolin - Beach Access Software > Sent: 17 March 2004 18:44 > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access 2003 Developer Edition? > > > John: > > DO you know if I have to have the ODE97 installed to install > the Visual Studio Tools for the Microsoft Office System > upgrade? Or will it just ask for a CD key, maybe? > > Rocky > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "DJK(John) Robinson" > To: "'Access Developers discussion and problem solving'" > > Sent: Wednesday, March 17, 2004 10:18 AM > Subject: RE: [AccessD] Access 2003 Developer Edition? > > > > [Visual Studio Tools for the Microsoft Office System] > > > > Yes, there is a "tools upgrade" price: 60% off the Full price. > > Rocky's ODE97 will qualify him for it. See: > > http://msdn.microsoft.com/vstudio/howtobuy/officetools/ > > > > Access 2003 Developer Extensions, VB .NET Standard Edition, > and SQLS > > 2000 Developer Edition are included in VST4MSOS. As Marty > said, see: > > http://msdn.microsoft.com/vstudio/office/ > > > > > > The different *Office* 2003 editions are listed in: > > http://www.microsoft.com/office/editions/howtobuy/compare.mspx > > > > > > No personal experience yet of the Package Wizard, but I've > heard good > > reports of it. > > > > HTH > > John > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > > > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf > Of Charlotte > > > Foust > > > Sent: 17 March 2004 16:06 > > > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > > > Subject: RE: [AccessD] Access 2003 Developer Edition? > > > > > > > > > I don't think there is a "tools upgrade" price, Rocky. A > developer > > > license gives you the right to upgrade to Pro or Premium (I can't > > > keep the versions straight) in 2003. I never saw an > upgrade path to > > > the VSTO package anywhere I looked. Developer gives you > an upgrade > > > path to Visual Studio.Net, I believe, but the VSTO is a separate > > > package. > > > > > > Charlotte Foust > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > From: Rocky Smolin - Beach Access Software > > > [mailto:bchacc at san.rr.com] > > > Sent: Tuesday, March 16, 2004 8:58 PM > > > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > > > Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access 2003 Developer Edition? > > > > > > > > > Marty: > > > > > > A couple of weeks ago I was asking about deploying an > Access product > > > and trying to decide whether to go with Wise/Sagekey A2K > script with > > > an A2K mde. But I'd have to buy the A2K developer > edition. as well > > > as the Sagekey script. > > > > > > Now it appears, IIUC, that I could buy Office 2003 and the Office > > > Developer Tools (I've got A97 Developer license so I > could get the > > > Tools upgrade price, I think), and use the Developer > Tools packaging > > > wizard. > > > > > > >From the article it appears that the Packaging Wizard is pretty > > > >good. I > > > didn't detect any of the 'it really stinks' kind of review of > > > earlier Access packagers. > > > > > > Has you or anyone had any experience with it yet? Is it a > > > reasonable alternative? It probably would have a longer > life than > > > going with an A2K solution. One requirement I see is that the > > > target machine has to have W2K or WXP but that shouldn't > be too much > > > of a problem as time goes on. > > > > > > Regards, > > > > > > Rocky Smolin > > > Beach Access Software > > > http://www.e-z-mrp.com > > > > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > From: "MartyConnelly" > > > To: "Access Developers discussion and problem solving" > > > > > > Sent: Monday, March 15, 2004 11:30 AM > > > Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access 2003 Developer Edition? > > > > > > > > > > The Access 2003 runtime ships with any version of Office > > > 2003 that has > > > > Access 2003, the license to redistribute solutions with > the Access > > > > runtime is available exclusively through the Access Developer > > > > Extensions. The Access Developer Extensions include the > > > Package Wizard > > > > and other developer-oriented tools. The Package Wizard > creates a > > > > package based on an Access 2003 solution that users can install > > > > and uninstall with the Microsoft Windows Installer. You can > > > only acquire > > > > the Access Developer Extensions by buying the "Visual Studio > > > > Tools for the Microsoft Office System". > > > > http://msdn.microsoft.com/vstudio/office > > > > > > > > > > > > Packaging Access 2003 Solutions Rick Dobson > > > > > > > > > > > > > > http://msdn.microsoft.com/library/default.asp?url=/library/en- us/dnsmart03/h > tml/sa03j8.asp > > > > Michael Br?sdorf wrote: > > > > >Hello, > > > > > >I noticed that there seems to no more Office 2003 Developers > > >Edition. Is > it > > >still possible to create Run-Time applications with Access 2003? ` > > >Michael > > > > > > > > > > > > > -- > > Marty Connelly > > Victoria, B.C. > > Canada > > > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From HollisVJ at pgdp.usec.com Wed Mar 17 14:34:31 2004 From: HollisVJ at pgdp.usec.com (Hollis,Virginia) Date: Wed, 17 Mar 2004 14:34:31 -0600 Subject: [AccessD] Hyperlink Field Message-ID: <618EB4D6DDCDD3119B0A00508B6FD37A0CB0D34D@cntexchange.pgdp.usec.com> I added a field to the table & set it as type - hyperlink. On the form when I type in the address Microsoft.com it does not access the site. It does from the table, but not on the form. When I enter the field on the form it shows Microsoft.com#http://Microsoft.com#. How do you create a hyperlink field that works? Virginia From BBarabash at TappeConstruction.com Wed Mar 17 14:43:00 2004 From: BBarabash at TappeConstruction.com (Brett Barabash) Date: Wed, 17 Mar 2004 14:43:00 -0600 Subject: [AccessD] Short Date Input Mask question Message-ID: <426071E0B0A6D311B3C0006008B0AB23AFE41F@TAPPEEXCH01> >I do not believe that providing a pop up calendar is incorrect especially as >the users can tab into a date field and use a keyboard in any event. You missed my point. This is EXACTLY my sentiment. I said: >One of my biggest UI pet peeves is fields that disallow keyboard entry. My response was to someone who doesn't allow the user to tab into a date field and forces them to open up a calendar instead. In my opinion, this is a lazy way of avoiding date validation code. Have you ever used a program or website that forces you to use a calendar to enter your birthdate? (I have!) Personally, I find it a PITA to click a button to open a calendar, navigate to 1975, select May from a dropdown and then click on the 6. I'd like to type 05/06/1975, but some lazy programmer decided that it's way more elegant to launch a special screen to guide me through this complex process. OTOH, Outlook gives you several different options for date selection. To schedule a meeting for tomorrow, I can type... 03/18/2004 March 18, 2004 2004 Mar 18 ...or click on the box next to the field if I want to see a calendar. The developers put a lot of thought into this and because of its inherent flexibility it is easy to use by all types of users. I wish other pieces of software were as ambitious. -----Original Message----- From: J?rgen Welz [mailto:jwelz at hotmail.com] Sent: Wednesday, March 17, 2004 1:45 PM To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: RE: [AccessD] Short Date Input Mask question At one point a few years ago at this list I made a similar comment saying I provided a doubleclick pop up calendar and received a similar response. As a result, I once logged usage of: Double click pop up calendar vs Key down with form key preview on, Alt-d pops calendar if screen active control had a standard input mask property. I also considered a keyboard autokeys macro call a runcode that did the same thing but never did implement this version. Logging indicated that well over 98% of the data entry was by double click popup calendar. Granted these were very 'unsophisticated' users but the majority of their daily tasks involved interaction with the application. I do not believe that providing a pop up calendar is incorrect especially as the users can tab into a date field and use a keyboard in any event. IIRC, I had changed the display format and input mask dynamically in the past so that a user could key in 'mm/dd/yy' but the display format whenever the control didn't have focus was 'mmm/dd/yyyy'. I also added a label displaying the input format at each date entry textbox so there was never a question as to the required input sequence. I also believe that one of the reasons that my users like my pop up calendar is because it also displays appointments and blocked off dates for that user and other office staff (selected in multiselect list). It can be popped by keyboard or by doubleclick and can be navigated by mouse or cursor or page keys (for months) and you can tab into a year textbox. The months are each on a tab wtih Alt-character navigation and cursoring down past the end of one month moves to the next month (and up to previous). Finally, the Enter keys accepts the date, sets the source textbox and dismisses the calendar and the Escape key dismisses the calendar without setting or changing a date. I am a firm believer in always providing a keyboard navigation method, but that never precludes adding a mouse alternative that does exactly the same thing. A pop up calendar can be entirely keyboard controlled at a cost of a few extra keystrokes for the rich graphical information that it can present. And just because it's there doesn't mean a user ever has to use it. It just turns out that my experience is that they will even though I have a prejudice for preferring to use the keyboard wherever possible. I suspect this prejudice afflicts most programmers. If only browers were more keyboard friendly. Ciao J?rgen Welz Edmonton, Alberta jwelz at hotmail.com >From: Brett Barabash > >I bet the data entry people love you! > >It may "work for you", but I'll bet that there are some users out there >that >feel otherwise. One of my biggest UI pet peeves is fields that disallow >keyboard entry. One record or 1000 records, it's still annoying to move >your hand off of the home row of your keyboard and click around to select a >date. > > >-----Original Message----- >From: Heenan, Lambert [mailto:Lambert.Heenan at aig.com] >Sent: Wednesday, March 17, 2004 8:22 AM >To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' >Subject: RE: [AccessD] Short Date Input Mask question > > >My solution to date entry is simple - I never let user's type in a date. >They always pick the date from a simple calendar form (though I don't use >the MS Calendar control). Click on a date field and up pops the date >picker. >While this would not be suitable, perhaps, in applications where massive >numbers of dates need to be entered, I find it works just fine for me. > >Lambert > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: Arthur Fuller [SMTP:artful at rogers.com] > > Sent: Tuesday, March 16, 2004 5:47 PM > > To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' > > Subject: [AccessD] Short Date Input Mask question > > > > The standard short date input mask (99/99/0000;0;_) has a shortcoming > > that I hate: you have to type 04/04/04 to get April 4th 2004. The year > > handling is nice but the month and day suck. The mask won't let you type > > 4/4/04. Is there an alternative mask that will respond intelligently to > > such input? Or should I instead just remove all the input masks from all > > the date fields? > > > > TIA, > > Arthur _________________________________________________________________ -------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- The information in this email may contain confidential information that is legally privileged. The information is only for the use of the intended recipient(s) named above. If you are not the intended recipient(s), you are hereby notified that any disclosure, copying, distribution, or the taking of any action in regard to the content of this fax is strictly prohibited. If transmission is incorrect, unclear, or incomplete, please notify the sender immediately. The authorized recipient(s) of this information is/are prohibited from disclosing this information to any other party and is/are required to destroy the information after its stated need has been fulfilled. Any views expressed in this message are those of the individual sender, except where the sender specifies and with authority, states them to be the views of Tappe Construction Co. This footer also confirms that this email message has been scanned for the presence of computer viruses.Scanning of this message and addition of this footer is performed by SurfControl E-mail Filter software in conjunction with virus detection software. From Bryan_Carbonnell at cbc.ca Wed Mar 17 14:44:51 2004 From: Bryan_Carbonnell at cbc.ca (Bryan Carbonnell) Date: Wed, 17 Mar 2004 15:44:51 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Hyperlink Field Message-ID: Set the textbox's IsHyperlink property to true. Bryan Carbonnell bryan_carbonnell at cbc.ca >>> HollisVJ at pgdp.usec.com 17-Mar-04 3:34:31 PM >>> I added a field to the table & set it as type - hyperlink. On the form when I type in the address Microsoft.com it does not access the site. It does from the table, but not on the form. When I enter the field on the form it shows Microsoft.com#http://Microsoft.com#. How do you create a hyperlink field that works? Virginia From HollisVJ at pgdp.usec.com Wed Mar 17 14:53:18 2004 From: HollisVJ at pgdp.usec.com (Hollis,Virginia) Date: Wed, 17 Mar 2004 14:53:18 -0600 Subject: [AccessD] Hyperlink Field Message-ID: <618EB4D6DDCDD3119B0A00508B6FD37A0CB0D34F@cntexchange.pgdp.usec.com> Thanks, I never would have found that! Va. -----Original Message----- From: Bryan Carbonnell [mailto:Bryan_Carbonnell at cbc.ca] Sent: Wednesday, March 17, 2004 2:45 PM To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: Re: [AccessD] Hyperlink Field Set the textbox's IsHyperlink property to true. Bryan Carbonnell bryan_carbonnell at cbc.ca >>> HollisVJ at pgdp.usec.com 17-Mar-04 3:34:31 PM >>> I added a field to the table & set it as type - hyperlink. On the form when I type in the address Microsoft.com it does not access the site. It does from the table, but not on the form. When I enter the field on the form it shows Microsoft.com#http://Microsoft.com#. How do you create a hyperlink field that works? Virginia -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com Wed Mar 17 14:57:18 2004 From: jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com (John W. Colby) Date: Wed, 17 Mar 2004 15:57:18 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Re: Short Date Input Mask question In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.2.20040317083331.029dfc30@pop3.highstream.net> Message-ID: Thanks for that. Sometimes it feels a little lonely out here. John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Robert L. Stewart Sent: Wednesday, March 17, 2004 10:01 AM To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: [AccessD] Re: Short Date Input Mask question John, Ignore those that do not benefit or want to learn. Personally, I have read and re-read your posts, which I have compiled into a single document that I keep adding to. As I learn more, I will add my notes to it. As to a framework, they are great. And, you do have the right idea. With all the so called developers that claim Access as a development tool, we need to distinguish ourselves from them with as wide a gap as possible. Extending the capabilities of Access is just one of the ways, we as PROFESSIONAL developers can do this. A good example of this is the C programmers that a company here in Houston hired to do Access development. A friend of mine spent the last 3+ months debugging what they had written. An example of the poor programming technique (no matter the language) was the calling of a function to see what the country they were operating in was between 20 and 30 times within a form instead of setting a variable on open of the program. The country did not change after opening the program. :-) Yet, they were offended by the changes that were suggested by the real Access professional, because of their superior programming knowledge since they were C programmers. And, one of their other problems was that she was a woman. They were not from this country. Robert At 01:21 AM 3/17/2004 -0600, you wrote: >Date: Wed, 17 Mar 2004 10:37:30 +1030 >From: "Haslett, Andrew" >Subject: RE: [AccessD] Short Date Input Mask question >To: "'Access Developers discussion and problem solving'" > >Message-ID: > >Content-Type: text/plain > >(PS. I personally have found it quite useful and its been a handy refresher >in terms of withevents, class design etc. ) -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From HollisVJ at pgdp.usec.com Wed Mar 17 14:58:40 2004 From: HollisVJ at pgdp.usec.com (Hollis,Virginia) Date: Wed, 17 Mar 2004 14:58:40 -0600 Subject: [AccessD] Hyperlink Field Message-ID: <618EB4D6DDCDD3119B0A00508B6FD37A0CB0D350@cntexchange.pgdp.usec.com> Spoke too soon... I set it to IsHyperlink, but it still does not work. When I click the field I still get all the # signs & the link does not work. -----Original Message----- From: Bryan Carbonnell [mailto:Bryan_Carbonnell at cbc.ca] Sent: Wednesday, March 17, 2004 2:45 PM To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: Re: [AccessD] Hyperlink Field Set the textbox's IsHyperlink property to true. Bryan Carbonnell bryan_carbonnell at cbc.ca >>> HollisVJ at pgdp.usec.com 17-Mar-04 3:34:31 PM >>> I added a field to the table & set it as type - hyperlink. On the form when I type in the address Microsoft.com it does not access the site. It does from the table, but not on the form. When I enter the field on the form it shows Microsoft.com#http://Microsoft.com#. How do you create a hyperlink field that works? Virginia -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com Wed Mar 17 15:00:35 2004 From: jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com (John W. Colby) Date: Wed, 17 Mar 2004 16:00:35 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Short Date Input Mask question In-Reply-To: <2F8793082E00D4119A1700B0D0216BF802227983@main2.marlow.com> Message-ID: LOL. I really don't expect YOU to read them! John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of DWUTKA at marlow.com Sent: Wednesday, March 17, 2004 2:40 PM To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: RE: [AccessD] Short Date Input Mask question If it makes you feel any better JC, I don't read the posts you take hours writing.... Just kidding. I do read most of them. Too busy to read everything lately... Drew -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of John W. Colby Sent: Tuesday, March 16, 2004 4:35 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] Short Date Input Mask question Stuart, that is a silly thing to say, and exactly the reason that I can't help but wonder whether anyone at all reads the posts I spend hours writing and writing example code for. Of course "Access does that just fine by itself if you set the format property to "d mmm yyyyy". And now, WE (you and I) have an application where our respective clients say "I hate that format". I don't know what You do but I go into my sysvar table and change a SysVar. The next time the app opens all date fields are formatted however the client wants. What exactly DO you do? To a man with a search and replace program.... Shall I just abandon my attempts to educate this list about what frameworks can do? Seems a shame, but it sure appears I've wasted about 30 hours so far. John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Stuart McLachlan Sent: Tuesday, March 16, 2004 5:10 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problemsolving Subject: RE: [AccessD] Short Date Input Mask question On 16 Mar 2004 at 15:40, John W. Colby wrote: > A great case for a framework. Define the various formats you use in your > text boxes and then tell the framework to figure out that it's a date and > apply a format. > To a man with a hammer....... :-) Access does that just fine by itself if you set the format property to "d mmm yyyyy" or whatever you want in the particular situation. -- Lexacorp Ltd http://www.lexacorp.com.pg Information Technology Consultancy, Software Development,System Support. -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From DWUTKA at marlow.com Wed Mar 17 15:16:36 2004 From: DWUTKA at marlow.com (DWUTKA at marlow.com) Date: Wed, 17 Mar 2004 15:16:36 -0600 Subject: [AccessD] Short Date Input Mask question Message-ID: <2F8793082E00D4119A1700B0D0216BF802227989@main2.marlow.com> No, I do skim almost all of them. And the stuff I find interesting, I read all the way through. Intelligent postings are always a plus...no matter who writes them! Drew -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of John W. Colby Sent: Wednesday, March 17, 2004 3:01 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] Short Date Input Mask question LOL. I really don't expect YOU to read them! John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of DWUTKA at marlow.com Sent: Wednesday, March 17, 2004 2:40 PM To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: RE: [AccessD] Short Date Input Mask question If it makes you feel any better JC, I don't read the posts you take hours writing.... Just kidding. I do read most of them. Too busy to read everything lately... Drew -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of John W. Colby Sent: Tuesday, March 16, 2004 4:35 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] Short Date Input Mask question Stuart, that is a silly thing to say, and exactly the reason that I can't help but wonder whether anyone at all reads the posts I spend hours writing and writing example code for. Of course "Access does that just fine by itself if you set the format property to "d mmm yyyyy". And now, WE (you and I) have an application where our respective clients say "I hate that format". I don't know what You do but I go into my sysvar table and change a SysVar. The next time the app opens all date fields are formatted however the client wants. What exactly DO you do? To a man with a search and replace program.... Shall I just abandon my attempts to educate this list about what frameworks can do? Seems a shame, but it sure appears I've wasted about 30 hours so far. John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Stuart McLachlan Sent: Tuesday, March 16, 2004 5:10 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problemsolving Subject: RE: [AccessD] Short Date Input Mask question On 16 Mar 2004 at 15:40, John W. Colby wrote: > A great case for a framework. Define the various formats you use in your > text boxes and then tell the framework to figure out that it's a date and > apply a format. > To a man with a hammer....... :-) Access does that just fine by itself if you set the format property to "d mmm yyyyy" or whatever you want in the particular situation. -- Lexacorp Ltd http://www.lexacorp.com.pg Information Technology Consultancy, Software Development,System Support. -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From wdhindman at bellsouth.net Wed Mar 17 15:44:47 2004 From: wdhindman at bellsouth.net (William Hindman) Date: Wed, 17 Mar 2004 16:44:47 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Short Date Input Mask question References: <426071E0B0A6D311B3C0006008B0AB23AFE41F@TAPPEEXCH01> Message-ID: <000401c40c69$11a32360$6101a8c0@dejpolsys> ...yes and no ...convenient but a suck for bad data entry ime ...one types in 6/1/2004 ...one types in 1/6/2004 ...one types in 1 jun 04 and tabs on down the line, etc ...lecture me all day on dumb users but I don't have the option of firing them ...so I pop up a small calendar every time ...if the user enters directly in the text box, the calendar moves to the date entered to provide visual feedback ...if he/she selects from the calendar it fills the text box ...either way they can mouse it or keyboard it ...so no matter whether the user is military trained (euro dating) or public school trained (US dating you hope) or wants to type in the alpha month, I get him there somehow so that the right date gets entered ...nothings foolproof but date entry errors have gone to zero ...which is worth the cost of the popup to me and my clients. ...as a side I tried this approach using the native calendar control and could never make its speed acceptable ...after a lot of experimentation I standardized on an older version of Drew's all vba code calendar (with some mods) which is quite fast for my needs ...one of these days I might get around to using his newest version but I've not found a reason to as yet :) William Hindman You know the world is upside down when Bill Clinton wins a Grammy and Janet Jackson is the subject of a government sex investigation. Argus Hamilton. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Brett Barabash" To: "'Access Developers discussion and problem solving'" Sent: Wednesday, March 17, 2004 3:43 PM Subject: RE: [AccessD] Short Date Input Mask question > >I do not believe that providing a pop up calendar is incorrect especially > as > >the users can tab into a date field and use a keyboard in any event. > > You missed my point. This is EXACTLY my sentiment. > > I said: > >One of my biggest UI pet peeves is fields that disallow keyboard entry. > > My response was to someone who doesn't allow the user to tab into a date > field and forces them to open up a calendar instead. In my opinion, this is > a lazy way of avoiding date validation code. > > Have you ever used a program or website that forces you to use a calendar to > enter your birthdate? (I have!) Personally, I find it a PITA to click a > button to open a calendar, navigate to 1975, select May from a dropdown and > then click on the 6. I'd like to type 05/06/1975, but some lazy programmer > decided that it's way more elegant to launch a special screen to guide me > through this complex process. > > OTOH, Outlook gives you several different options for date selection. To > schedule a meeting for tomorrow, I can type... > 03/18/2004 > March 18, 2004 > 2004 Mar 18 > ...or click on the box next to the field if I want to see a calendar. > > The developers put a lot of thought into this and because of its inherent > flexibility it is easy to use by all types of users. I wish other pieces of > software were as ambitious. > > > -----Original Message----- > From: J?rgen Welz [mailto:jwelz at hotmail.com] > Sent: Wednesday, March 17, 2004 1:45 PM > To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com > Subject: RE: [AccessD] Short Date Input Mask question > > At one point a few years ago at this list I made a similar comment saying I > provided a doubleclick pop up calendar and received a similar response. As > a result, I once logged usage of: > > Double click pop up calendar > vs > Key down with form key preview on, Alt-d pops calendar if screen active > control had a standard input mask property. > > I also considered a keyboard autokeys macro call a runcode that did the same > > thing but never did implement this version. > > Logging indicated that well over 98% of the data entry was by double click > popup calendar. Granted these were very 'unsophisticated' users but the > majority of their daily tasks involved interaction with the application. > > I do not believe that providing a pop up calendar is incorrect especially as > > the users can tab into a date field and use a keyboard in any event. IIRC, > I had changed the display format and input mask dynamically in the past so > that a user could key in 'mm/dd/yy' but the display format whenever the > control didn't have focus was 'mmm/dd/yyyy'. I also added a label > displaying the input format at each date entry textbox so there was never a > question as to the required input sequence. > > I also believe that one of the reasons that my users like my pop up calendar > > is because it also displays appointments and blocked off dates for that user > > and other office staff (selected in multiselect list). It can be popped by > keyboard or by doubleclick and can be navigated by mouse or cursor or page > keys (for months) and you can tab into a year textbox. The months are each > on a tab wtih Alt-character navigation and cursoring down past the end of > one month moves to the next month (and up to previous). Finally, the Enter > keys accepts the date, sets the source textbox and dismisses the calendar > and the Escape key dismisses the calendar without setting or changing a > date. > > I am a firm believer in always providing a keyboard navigation method, but > that never precludes adding a mouse alternative that does exactly the same > thing. A pop up calendar can be entirely keyboard controlled at a cost of a > > few extra keystrokes for the rich graphical information that it can present. > > And just because it's there doesn't mean a user ever has to use it. It > just turns out that my experience is that they will even though I have a > prejudice for preferring to use the keyboard wherever possible. I suspect > this prejudice afflicts most programmers. > > If only browers were more keyboard friendly. > > > Ciao > J?rgen Welz > Edmonton, Alberta > jwelz at hotmail.com > > > > > > >From: Brett Barabash > > > >I bet the data entry people love you! > > > >It may "work for you", but I'll bet that there are some users out there > >that > >feel otherwise. One of my biggest UI pet peeves is fields that disallow > >keyboard entry. One record or 1000 records, it's still annoying to move > >your hand off of the home row of your keyboard and click around to select a > >date. > > > > > >-----Original Message----- > >From: Heenan, Lambert [mailto:Lambert.Heenan at aig.com] > >Sent: Wednesday, March 17, 2004 8:22 AM > >To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' > >Subject: RE: [AccessD] Short Date Input Mask question > > > > > >My solution to date entry is simple - I never let user's type in a date. > >They always pick the date from a simple calendar form (though I don't use > >the MS Calendar control). Click on a date field and up pops the date > >picker. > >While this would not be suitable, perhaps, in applications where massive > >numbers of dates need to be entered, I find it works just fine for me. > > > >Lambert > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > From: Arthur Fuller [SMTP:artful at rogers.com] > > > Sent: Tuesday, March 16, 2004 5:47 PM > > > To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' > > > Subject: [AccessD] Short Date Input Mask question > > > > > > The standard short date input mask (99/99/0000;0;_) has a shortcoming > > > that I hate: you have to type 04/04/04 to get April 4th 2004. The year > > > handling is nice but the month and day suck. The mask won't let you type > > > 4/4/04. Is there an alternative mask that will respond intelligently to > > > such input? Or should I instead just remove all the input masks from all > > > the date fields? > > > > > > TIA, > > > Arthur > > _________________________________________________________________ > > -------------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------------------ > The information in this email may contain confidential information that > is legally privileged. The information is only for the use of the intended > recipient(s) named above. If you are not the intended recipient(s), you > are hereby notified that any disclosure, copying, distribution, or the taking > of any action in regard to the content of this fax is strictly prohibited. If > transmission is incorrect, unclear, or incomplete, please notify the sender > immediately. The authorized recipient(s) of this information is/are prohibited > from disclosing this information to any other party and is/are required to > destroy the information after its stated need has been fulfilled. > > Any views expressed in this message are those of the individual > sender, except where the sender specifies and with authority, > states them to be the views of Tappe Construction Co. > > This footer also confirms that this email message has been scanned > for the presence of computer viruses.Scanning of this message and > addition of this footer is performed by SurfControl E-mail Filter software > in conjunction with virus detection software. > > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From wdhindman at bellsouth.net Wed Mar 17 15:46:25 2004 From: wdhindman at bellsouth.net (William Hindman) Date: Wed, 17 Mar 2004 16:46:25 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Re: Short Date Input Mask question References: Message-ID: <000901c40c69$4c148890$6101a8c0@dejpolsys> ...yeah, yeah, yeah ...how many times has Mary told you to shower more often? ...sheesh!!!! :))))) William Hindman You know the world is upside down when Bill Clinton wins a Grammy and Janet Jackson is the subject of a government sex investigation. Argus Hamilton. ----- Original Message ----- From: "John W. Colby" To: "Access Developers discussion and problem solving" Sent: Wednesday, March 17, 2004 3:57 PM Subject: RE: [AccessD] Re: Short Date Input Mask question > Thanks for that. Sometimes it feels a little lonely out here. > > John W. Colby > www.ColbyConsulting.com From rl_stewart at highstream.net Wed Mar 17 15:53:48 2004 From: rl_stewart at highstream.net (Robert L. Stewart) Date: Wed, 17 Mar 2004 15:53:48 -0600 Subject: [AccessD] Re: Hyperlink Field In-Reply-To: <200403172144.i2HLieM21591@databaseadvisors.com> Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20040317155246.02a4fe98@pop3.highstream.net> Virginia, The trick is that a label has the hyperlink property and not a text box. Use a label and set the properties for it in code. Robert At 03:44 PM 3/17/2004 -0600, you wrote: >Date: Wed, 17 Mar 2004 14:34:31 -0600 >From: "Hollis,Virginia" >Subject: [AccessD] Hyperlink Field >To: "'accessd at databaseadvisors.com'" >Message-ID: > <618EB4D6DDCDD3119B0A00508B6FD37A0CB0D34D at cntexchange.pgdp.usec.com> >Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 > >I added a field to the table & set it as type - hyperlink. On the form when >I type in the address Microsoft.com it does not access the site. It does >from the table, but not on the form. When I enter the field on the form it >shows Microsoft.com#http://Microsoft.com#. > >How do you create a hyperlink field that works? > >Virginia From HollisVJ at pgdp.usec.com Wed Mar 17 16:01:00 2004 From: HollisVJ at pgdp.usec.com (Hollis,Virginia) Date: Wed, 17 Mar 2004 16:01:00 -0600 Subject: [AccessD] RE: Hyperlink Field Message-ID: <618EB4D6DDCDD3119B0A00508B6FD37A0CB0D351@cntexchange.pgdp.usec.com> Yes, but how would you store the contents of a label in a field? I want to store the web site addresses with the vendors. Virginia -----Original Message----- From: Robert L. Stewart [mailto:rl_stewart at highstream.net] Sent: Wednesday, March 17, 2004 3:54 PM To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Cc: HollisVJ at pgdp.usec.com Subject: Re: Hyperlink Field Virginia, The trick is that a label has the hyperlink property and not a text box. Use a label and set the properties for it in code. Robert At 03:44 PM 3/17/2004 -0600, you wrote: >Date: Wed, 17 Mar 2004 14:34:31 -0600 >From: "Hollis,Virginia" >Subject: [AccessD] Hyperlink Field >To: "'accessd at databaseadvisors.com'" >Message-ID: > <618EB4D6DDCDD3119B0A00508B6FD37A0CB0D34D at cntexchange.pgdp.usec.com> >Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 > >I added a field to the table & set it as type - hyperlink. On the form when >I type in the address Microsoft.com it does not access the site. It does >from the table, but not on the form. When I enter the field on the form it >shows Microsoft.com#http://Microsoft.com#. > >How do you create a hyperlink field that works? > >Virginia From martyconnelly at shaw.ca Wed Mar 17 15:48:51 2004 From: martyconnelly at shaw.ca (MartyConnelly) Date: Wed, 17 Mar 2004 13:48:51 -0800 Subject: AW: [AccessD] Slightly OT: Access/Office 2003 with Multilingual UserPack on Terminal Server/Citrix Metaframe References: Message-ID: <4058C7C3.1080603@shaw.ca> Ah, you want the MUI MultiLingual User Interface for the Win2000+ OS and Office. I was thinking of the archaic language packs. http://www.microsoft.com/office/editions/prodinfo/language/default.mspx http://www.microsoft.com/globaldev/DrIntl/faqs/MUIFaq.mspx http://www.microsoft.com/office/ork/2003/four/default.htm A lot of this is covered in the ORK Office Resource Kit. One other problem The Windows XP/2000 MUI maybe sold only through Volume Licensing programs. I don't know if you can buy retail. If you can set multi languages through Windows Terminal Services should be able to do it with Citrix http://www.microsoft.com/globaldev/DrIntl/faqs/MUIFaq.mspx#MUIques3 Shared workstations: MUI is controlled at the user level, and thus allows for customer scenarios whereby a single workstation is shared by multiple part-time or roaming employees. This also applies to Terminal Services scenario where each user can get a different user interface language depending on their preference. On a citrix server the client program can toggle keyboard language selection via Alt-Shift key Michael Br?sdorf wrote: >But that will change only the keyboard behaviour!? With the multilingual >thingy you can change the language of the user interface (menu's, error >messages etc.). From what I've heard so far switching to another language >acutally replaced a couple of DLL's. > >Michael > >-----Urspr?ngliche Nachricht----- >Von: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com >[mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]Im Auftrag von >MartyConnelly >Gesendet: Mittwoch, 17. M?rz 2004 20:14 >An: Access Developers discussion and problem solving >Betreff: Re: [AccessD] Slightly OT: Access/Office 2003 with Multilingual >UserPack on Terminal Server/Citrix Metaframe > > >I do French or English input on the same Access 97 form by bringing up >the windows xp language bar and testing or forcing a language switch on >the keyboard depending on which textbox is active. This probably not the >only way to do it. I am not sure how this would work via Citrix. > > > >Michael Br?sdorf wrote: > > > >>Dear group, >> >>one of my customers thinks it would be a good idea to install Office 2003 >>along with a Multilingual User Pack on a Citrix Metaframe server to have >>localized (that is English and German) user interfaces for all Office >>applications. Unfortunately it is pretty hard to find any related info. >> >> >Does > > >>anyone have experience with such a configuration? >> >>TIA, >> >>Michael >> >> >> >> >> > >-- >Marty Connelly >Victoria, B.C. >Canada > > > >-- >_______________________________________________ >AccessD mailing list >AccessD at databaseadvisors.com >http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd >Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > -- Marty Connelly Victoria, B.C. Canada From stuart at lexacorp.com.pg Wed Mar 17 16:12:52 2004 From: stuart at lexacorp.com.pg (Stuart McLachlan) Date: Thu, 18 Mar 2004 08:12:52 +1000 Subject: [AccessD] Re: Hyperlink Field In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.2.20040317155246.02a4fe98@pop3.highstream.net> References: <200403172144.i2HLieM21591@databaseadvisors.com> Message-ID: <40595A04.4146.19A0E9@localhost> On 17 Mar 2004 at 15:53, Robert L. Stewart wrote: > Virginia, > > The trick is that a label has the hyperlink > property and not a text box. Use a label > and set the properties for it in code. > > Not in any version of Access I've ever seen. The "Is hyperlink" property is the last one in the "Format" tab of the textbox "Properties" dialog. -- Lexacorp Ltd http://www.lexacorp.com.pg Information Technology Consultancy, Software Development,System Support. From martyconnelly at shaw.ca Wed Mar 17 16:11:30 2004 From: martyconnelly at shaw.ca (MartyConnelly) Date: Wed, 17 Mar 2004 14:11:30 -0800 Subject: [AccessD] Re: [Private] Framework Discussion - Dependent Obje cts References: <2F8793082E00D4119A1700B0D0216BF802227985@main2.marlow.com> Message-ID: <4058CD12.9000000@shaw.ca> You can get the Student Edition or Working Model of VB6 (no .exe creation or help files) included with "Sam's Teach Yourself Visual Basic in 24 hours". by Greg Perry ISBN # 0672315335 Only $14 US. DWUTKA at marlow.com wrote: >Gustav, Gustav, Gustav....you need to invest in VB 6. You could probably >get it dirt cheap on eBay, and with your skills, you'll pick it up in a >heart beat. > >A lot of people peg me as a VBer, simply because I use VB a lot. However, >I'm all for the right tool for the right job. VB is just another tool. >Now, if I could somehow merge the advantages of VB, with the advantages in >Access, I would be a VERY happy camper! > >Drew > >-----Original Message----- >From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com >[mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Gustav Brock >Sent: Wednesday, March 17, 2004 3:15 AM >To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving >Subject: Re: [AccessD] Re: [Private] Framework Discussion - Dependent >Obje cts > > >Hi Drew > >Yes, that makes sense to me, though I don't have any tools to program >dlls. I have some very general and well proven functions which I >simply keep collected in some modules which I copy-paste into a new >project as needed - not very fancy, I know, but it works. > >/gustav > > > >>I'm in the same situation as you. I find that building a 'framework' isn't >>worth the effort, because I have to develop very diverse GUI's. It's not >> >> >a > > >>matter of re-using features, it's a matter of building specific features >> >> >to > > >>handle the task at hand. >> >> > > > >>At my full time job, however, I have found that one of the best practices >> >> >I > > >>can stick too, is to develop applications as 'stand-alone' objects, yet >>leave room for interaction. So if I develop a library application for our >>Drafting department, and later I develop a modeling package for the >>engineers, if I need access to the drafting library, I can just >> >> >'reference' > > >>the drafting department's .dll's. Makes life a lot easier. To me, that's >>what I call a framework. It's not a generic thing from a functionality >>standpoint, but more of a generic thing from a usability standpoint. >> >> > > > >>Make sense? >> >> > > > -- Marty Connelly Victoria, B.C. Canada From stuart at lexacorp.com.pg Wed Mar 17 16:23:17 2004 From: stuart at lexacorp.com.pg (Stuart McLachlan) Date: Thu, 18 Mar 2004 08:23:17 +1000 Subject: [AccessD] Hyperlink Field In-Reply-To: <618EB4D6DDCDD3119B0A00508B6FD37A0CB0D350@cntexchange.pgdp.usec.com> Message-ID: <40595C75.7808.232A42@localhost> On 17 Mar 2004 at 14:58, Hollis,Virginia wrote: > Spoke too soon... > > I set it to IsHyperlink, but it still does not work. When I click the field > I still get all the # signs & the link does not work. > You are single clicking, not double clickling aren't you? When you right click on the textbox, can you access the Hyperlink menu or is it "greyed out" -- Lexacorp Ltd http://www.lexacorp.com.pg Information Technology Consultancy, Software Development,System Support. From stuart at lexacorp.com.pg Wed Mar 17 16:30:34 2004 From: stuart at lexacorp.com.pg (Stuart McLachlan) Date: Thu, 18 Mar 2004 08:30:34 +1000 Subject: [AccessD] Re: [Private] Framework Discussion - Dependent Obje cts In-Reply-To: <2F8793082E00D4119A1700B0D0216BF802227985@main2.marlow.com> Message-ID: <40595E2A.32151.29D54A@localhost> On 17 Mar 2004 at 13:45, DWUTKA at marlow.com wrote: > Gustav, Gustav, Gustav....you need to invest in VB 6. You could probably > get it dirt cheap on eBay, and with your skills, you'll pick it up in a > heart beat. > Or, dare I say it, PowerBasic. Great for producing DLLs and anyone who is good with VB /VBA will pick it up quickly. The best $199 I ever spent on software. -- Lexacorp Ltd http://www.lexacorp.com.pg Information Technology Consultancy, Software Development,System Support. From d.dick at uws.edu.au Wed Mar 17 16:33:27 2004 From: d.dick at uws.edu.au (Darren DICK) Date: Thu, 18 Mar 2004 09:33:27 +1100 Subject: [AccessD] RE: Hyperlink Field References: <618EB4D6DDCDD3119B0A00508B6FD37A0CB0D351@cntexchange.pgdp.usec.com> Message-ID: <00ce01c40c6f$ddf8f4c0$48619a89@DDICK> Hi Virginia Demo Sent off list Any and all me toos to be off list to d.dick at uws.edu.au (Any replies on list will be ignored) Have a great day y'all Darren ----- Original Message ----- From: "Hollis,Virginia" To: "'Robert L. Stewart'" ; Sent: Thursday, March 18, 2004 9:01 AM Subject: [AccessD] RE: Hyperlink Field > Yes, but how would you store the contents of a label in a field? I want to > store the web site addresses with the vendors. > > Virginia > > -----Original Message----- > From: Robert L. Stewart [mailto:rl_stewart at highstream.net] > Sent: Wednesday, March 17, 2004 3:54 PM > To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com > Cc: HollisVJ at pgdp.usec.com > Subject: Re: Hyperlink Field > > > Virginia, > > The trick is that a label has the hyperlink > property and not a text box. Use a label > and set the properties for it in code. > > Robert > > At 03:44 PM 3/17/2004 -0600, you wrote: > >Date: Wed, 17 Mar 2004 14:34:31 -0600 > >From: "Hollis,Virginia" > >Subject: [AccessD] Hyperlink Field > >To: "'accessd at databaseadvisors.com'" > >Message-ID: > > > <618EB4D6DDCDD3119B0A00508B6FD37A0CB0D34D at cntexchange.pgdp.usec.com> > >Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 > > > >I added a field to the table & set it as type - hyperlink. On the form when > >I type in the address Microsoft.com it does not access the site. It does > >from the table, but not on the form. When I enter the field on the form it > >shows Microsoft.com#http://Microsoft.com#. > > > >How do you create a hyperlink field that works? > > > >Virginia > > > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From ebarro at afsweb.com Wed Mar 17 16:37:20 2004 From: ebarro at afsweb.com (Eric Barro) Date: Wed, 17 Mar 2004 14:37:20 -0800 Subject: [AccessD] connecting to sql server using access 2000 adp In-Reply-To: <4058CD12.9000000@shaw.ca> Message-ID: I need help with connecting to a SQL server 2000 db using an ADP (Access 2000). I know how to connect via the regular port (1433). Where do you change the value if the server uses a different port like 1049? I am assuming that Access ADPs connect and expect to find the specified SQL server at port 1433. Any help or links will be appreciated. --- Eric Barro Senior Systems Analyst Advanced Field Services (208) 772-7060 http://www.afsweb.com --- Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.593 / Virus Database: 376 - Release Date: 2/20/2004 From jwelz at hotmail.com Wed Mar 17 16:45:49 2004 From: jwelz at hotmail.com (Jürgen Welz) Date: Wed, 17 Mar 2004 15:45:49 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] RE: Hyperlink Field Message-ID: Using Access 2000, I use Hyperlink datatype in the table and just a regular textbox in a form. No need to set the IsHyperlink property. Cursor is a hand when the mouse goes over the textbox and it launches a browser instance pointed at the URL when clicked once. Text appears as plain text in the textbox. If I store: ezonemag.com in the table, it appears as a hyperlink in the table but looks like plain text in the textbox. Tab into the field and hit F2 (edit) and it changes from hyperlink to clickable text until the focus is off the text box again when it reverts to acting like a hyperlink but looking like text. Text shown in the text box for the example is: ezonemag.com#http://www.ezonemag.com# I've never tried setting the IsHyperlink property True before today and the difference on my system (still running Win 95 on my current work machine, 64 meg peer 'server') is that it displays as a hyperlink in the textbox. Hitting the edit shows the same text, but underlined like a hyperlink, as though the IsHyperlink property was false. Ciao J?rgen Welz Edmonton, Alberta jwelz at hotmail.com _________________________________________________________________ MSN Premium with Virus Guard and Firewall* from McAfee? Security : 2 months FREE* http://join.msn.com/?pgmarket=en-ca&page=byoa/prem&xAPID=1994&DI=1034&SU=http://hotmail.com/enca&HL=Market_MSNIS_Taglines From thevigil at kabelfoon.nl Wed Mar 17 17:02:29 2004 From: thevigil at kabelfoon.nl (Bert-Jan Brinkhuis) Date: Thu, 18 Mar 2004 00:02:29 +0100 Subject: [AccessD] Strange results with simple calculation on a form Message-ID: <000f01c40c73$f596f560$214e2d3e@jester> Hi all, i was forced to unsubscribe a while ago because i couldn't keep up with you and all the messages... ;-) But today a strange thing happened i had to ask you all about. I didn't do a big search on the internet, but searched the accessd archives and didn't find it. It maybe is a well known problem, but here it goes..... I have an unbound form where users will type amounts. All the txtboxes' format are set to "standard" and the decimal places is set to 2. And i check on the before_update event of these txtboxes if there are more then 2 decimals, if so, cancel = true. There is an calculated total control (txtTotal) wich has a controlsource like =[txtbox1]+[txtbox2] and so on (in total 12 txtboxes) These txtboxes are used to 'split up' the amount in another txtbox. (txtAmount) Before saving i check if txtAmount = txtTotal. When no decimals are used there is no problem, if there are only used decimals in 1 txtbox there is no problem. But if there are used decimals in more txtboxes access will tell me the values are not the same..... although the same values are shown... it turns out there is a difference of: 0.00000000000000710542735!!!!!! (debug.print told me this!) When i use the same 'function' in VBA it works fine with the same values....???? So it is not a real problem, but it IS something strange... wel to me it is.... Thanks in advance. Hope to keep up with you this time... ;-) Bert-Jan From thevigil at kabelfoon.nl Wed Mar 17 17:09:46 2004 From: thevigil at kabelfoon.nl (Bert-Jan Brinkhuis) Date: Thu, 18 Mar 2004 00:09:46 +0100 Subject: [AccessD] excell's split box in access form Message-ID: <001501c40c74$f30be840$214e2d3e@jester> Hi, does anyone know how to make an excell like vertical split box in access? Bert-Jan From davide at dalyn.co.nz Wed Mar 17 17:41:41 2004 From: davide at dalyn.co.nz (David Emerson) Date: Thu, 18 Mar 2004 12:41:41 +1300 Subject: [AccessD] Import Date from Excel Message-ID: <5.2.0.9.0.20040318123458.00b2aae0@mail.dalyn.co.nz> I have a spreadsheet in Excel that is imported into a SQL2000 table. Because the field types are unknown the SQL fields are varchar(200). The problem is with dates - excel shows a date as 2/1/2004 but in the SQL table it is imported as 38018. I am using VBA to deal with each row at a time. How do I convert the number (38018) into a date? Regards David Emerson Dalyn Software Ltd 25 Cunliffe St, Churton Park Wellington, New Zealand Ph/Fax (877) 456-1205 From davide at dalyn.co.nz Wed Mar 17 18:25:06 2004 From: davide at dalyn.co.nz (David Emerson) Date: Thu, 18 Mar 2004 13:25:06 +1300 Subject: [AccessD] Import Date from Excel In-Reply-To: <5.2.0.9.0.20040318123458.00b2aae0@mail.dalyn.co.nz> Message-ID: <5.2.0.9.0.20040318132415.00b59908@mail.dalyn.co.nz> A further piece of info - I can't set the SQL field to datetime as it rejects the number as not being a date when it is imported. David At 18/03/2004, you wrote: >I have a spreadsheet in Excel that is imported into a SQL2000 >table. Because the field types are unknown the SQL fields are varchar(200). > >The problem is with dates - excel shows a date as 2/1/2004 but in the SQL >table it is imported as 38018. > >I am using VBA to deal with each row at a time. How do I convert the >number (38018) into a date? > >Regards > >David Emerson >Dalyn Software Ltd >25 Cunliffe St, Churton Park >Wellington, New Zealand >Ph/Fax (877) 456-1205 >-- >_______________________________________________ >AccessD mailing list >AccessD at databaseadvisors.com >http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd >Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > From cfoust at infostatsystems.com Wed Mar 17 18:38:00 2004 From: cfoust at infostatsystems.com (Charlotte Foust) Date: Wed, 17 Mar 2004 16:38:00 -0800 Subject: [AccessD] Strange results with simple calculation on a form Message-ID: Are you trying to do any kind of calculations with these numbers, even simple addition or subtraction, and then comparing the results? If there are any doubles or singles involved, you can certainly get this kind of weird result courtesy of floating point number creep. If you change any double or single formats to currency, that should take care of it. Currency doesn't have to use a $, and since it isn't floating point, the problem should disappear. Charlotte Foust -----Original Message----- From: Bert-Jan Brinkhuis [mailto:thevigil at kabelfoon.nl] Sent: Wednesday, March 17, 2004 3:02 PM To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: [AccessD] Strange results with simple calculation on a form Hi all, i was forced to unsubscribe a while ago because i couldn't keep up with you and all the messages... ;-) But today a strange thing happened i had to ask you all about. I didn't do a big search on the internet, but searched the accessd archives and didn't find it. It maybe is a well known problem, but here it goes..... I have an unbound form where users will type amounts. All the txtboxes' format are set to "standard" and the decimal places is set to 2. And i check on the before_update event of these txtboxes if there are more then 2 decimals, if so, cancel = true. There is an calculated total control (txtTotal) wich has a controlsource like =[txtbox1]+[txtbox2] and so on (in total 12 txtboxes) These txtboxes are used to 'split up' the amount in another txtbox. (txtAmount) Before saving i check if txtAmount = txtTotal. When no decimals are used there is no problem, if there are only used decimals in 1 txtbox there is no problem. But if there are used decimals in more txtboxes access will tell me the values are not the same..... although the same values are shown... it turns out there is a difference of: 0.00000000000000710542735!!!!!! (debug.print told me this!) When i use the same 'function' in VBA it works fine with the same values....???? So it is not a real problem, but it IS something strange... wel to me it is.... Thanks in advance. Hope to keep up with you this time... ;-) Bert-Jan -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From davide at dalyn.co.nz Wed Mar 17 20:09:04 2004 From: davide at dalyn.co.nz (David Emerson) Date: Thu, 18 Mar 2004 15:09:04 +1300 Subject: [AccessD] Import Date from Excel In-Reply-To: <5.2.0.9.0.20040318132415.00b59908@mail.dalyn.co.nz> References: <5.2.0.9.0.20040318123458.00b2aae0@mail.dalyn.co.nz> Message-ID: <5.2.0.9.0.20040318144404.025adc48@mail.dalyn.co.nz> Solved - Problem seemed to be trying to import when the spreadsheet was open in Excel. Close it and the dates import as dates. David At 18/03/2004, you wrote: >A further piece of info - I can't set the SQL field to datetime as it >rejects the number as not being a date when it is imported. > >David > >At 18/03/2004, you wrote: >>I have a spreadsheet in Excel that is imported into a SQL2000 >>table. Because the field types are unknown the SQL fields are varchar(200). >> >>The problem is with dates - excel shows a date as 2/1/2004 but in the SQL >>table it is imported as 38018. >> >>I am using VBA to deal with each row at a time. How do I convert the >>number (38018) into a date? >> >>Regards >> >>David Emerson >>Dalyn Software Ltd >>25 Cunliffe St, Churton Park >>Wellington, New Zealand >>Ph/Fax (877) 456-1205 >>-- >>_______________________________________________ >>AccessD mailing list >>AccessD at databaseadvisors.com >>http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd >>Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > >-- >_______________________________________________ >AccessD mailing list >AccessD at databaseadvisors.com >http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd >Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > From thevigil at kabelfoon.nl Thu Mar 18 02:19:54 2004 From: thevigil at kabelfoon.nl (Bert-Jan Brinkhuis) Date: Thu, 18 Mar 2004 09:19:54 +0100 Subject: [AccessD] Strange results with simple calculation on a form References: Message-ID: <002f01c40cc1$da652660$214e2d3e@jester> Charlotte, they are just values users type and they are only added to a total. I'll try the currency format. thanks, Bert-Jan ----- Original Message ----- From: "Charlotte Foust" To: "Access Developers discussion and problem solving" Sent: Thursday, March 18, 2004 1:38 AM Subject: RE: [AccessD] Strange results with simple calculation on a form > Are you trying to do any kind of calculations with these numbers, even > simple addition or subtraction, and then comparing the results? If > there are any doubles or singles involved, you can certainly get this > kind of weird result courtesy of floating point number creep. If you > change any double or single formats to currency, that should take care > of it. Currency doesn't have to use a $, and since it isn't floating > point, the problem should disappear. > > Charlotte Foust > > -----Original Message----- > From: Bert-Jan Brinkhuis [mailto:thevigil at kabelfoon.nl] > Sent: Wednesday, March 17, 2004 3:02 PM > To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com > Subject: [AccessD] Strange results with simple calculation on a form > > > Hi all, > > i was forced to unsubscribe a while ago because i couldn't keep up with > you and all the messages... ;-) > > But today a strange thing happened i had to ask you all about. I didn't > do a big search on the internet, but searched the accessd archives and > didn't find it. It maybe is a well known problem, but here it goes..... > > I have an unbound form where users will type amounts. All the txtboxes' > format are set to "standard" and the decimal places is set to 2. And i > check on the before_update event of these txtboxes if there are more > then 2 decimals, if so, cancel = true. There is an calculated total > control > (txtTotal) wich has a controlsource like =[txtbox1]+[txtbox2] and so on > (in total 12 txtboxes) These txtboxes are used to 'split up' the amount > in another txtbox. > (txtAmount) > > Before saving i check if txtAmount = txtTotal. When no decimals are used > there is no problem, if there are only used decimals in 1 txtbox there > is no problem. But if there are used decimals in more txtboxes access > will tell me the values are not the same..... although the same values > are shown... it turns out there is a difference of: > 0.00000000000000710542735!!!!!! (debug.print told me this!) > > When i use the same 'function' in VBA it works fine with the same > values....???? > > So it is not a real problem, but it IS something strange... wel to me it > is.... > > Thanks in advance. > > Hope to keep up with you this time... ;-) > > Bert-Jan > > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From gustav at cactus.dk Thu Mar 18 04:18:43 2004 From: gustav at cactus.dk (Gustav Brock) Date: Thu, 18 Mar 2004 11:18:43 +0100 Subject: [AccessD] Strange results with simple calculation on a form In-Reply-To: <000f01c40c73$f596f560$214e2d3e@jester> References: <000f01c40c73$f596f560$214e2d3e@jester> Message-ID: <1048451652.20040318111843@cactus.dk> Hi Bert-Jan Welcome back. Unbound textboxes contain text no matter how you format them. And decimals may not be exact Doubles and indeed not Singles. If you can accept a maximum of four decimals, use CCur(txtYourTextbox) to convert to Currency before doing any calculation or comparison. Else use CDbl() and compare to a max. tolerance of your choice: If Abs(dblTotal - dblAmount) < 1E-7 Then ' Values are equal. End If /gustav > Hi all, > i was forced to unsubscribe a while ago because i couldn't keep up with you > and all the messages... ;-) > But today a strange thing happened i had to ask you all about. I didn't do a > big search on the internet, but searched the accessd archives and didn't > find it. It maybe is a well known problem, but here it goes..... > I have an unbound form where users will type amounts. All the txtboxes' > format are set to "standard" and the decimal places is set to 2. And i check > on the before_update event of these txtboxes if there are more then 2 > decimals, if so, cancel = true. There is an calculated total control > (txtTotal) wich has a controlsource like =[txtbox1]+[txtbox2] and so on (in > total 12 txtboxes) > These txtboxes are used to 'split up' the amount in another txtbox. > (txtAmount) > Before saving i check if txtAmount = txtTotal. When no decimals are used > there is no problem, if there are only used decimals in 1 txtbox there is no > problem. But if there are used decimals in more txtboxes access will tell me > the values are not the same..... although the same values are shown... it > turns out there is a difference of: 0.00000000000000710542735!!!!!! > (debug.print told me this!) > When i use the same 'function' in VBA it works fine with the same > values....???? > So it is not a real problem, but it IS something strange... wel to me it > is.... > Thanks in advance. > Hope to keep up with you this time... ;-) > Bert-Jan From gustav at cactus.dk Thu Mar 18 03:37:42 2004 From: gustav at cactus.dk (Gustav Brock) Date: Thu, 18 Mar 2004 10:37:42 +0100 Subject: [AccessD] Re: [Private] Framework Discussion - Dependent Obje cts In-Reply-To: <40595E2A.32151.29D54A@localhost> References: <40595E2A.32151.29D54A@localhost> Message-ID: <505990543.20040318103742@cactus.dk> Hi Stuart and Marty OK, got the message. Thanks for the input! I may reconsider the next week containing two Thursdays. /gustav > On 17 Mar 2004 at 13:45, DWUTKA at marlow.com wrote: >> Gustav, Gustav, Gustav....you need to invest in VB 6. You could probably >> get it dirt cheap on eBay, and with your skills, you'll pick it up in a >> heart beat. > Or, dare I say it, PowerBasic. Great for producing DLLs and anyone > who is good with VB /VBA will pick it up quickly. > The best $199 I ever spent on software. From HollisVJ at pgdp.usec.com Thu Mar 18 06:06:38 2004 From: HollisVJ at pgdp.usec.com (Hollis,Virginia) Date: Thu, 18 Mar 2004 06:06:38 -0600 Subject: [AccessD] RE: Hyperlink Field Message-ID: <618EB4D6DDCDD3119B0A00508B6FD37A0CB0D358@cntexchange.pgdp.usec.com> I have set everything just as you have described - in A2K. The datatype is Hyperlink in the table and a textbox on the form, the cursor changes to a hand when I point to the field. In the field I put Microsoft.com, when I tab or click on the field it shows Microsoft.com#http://Microsoft.com#, when I exit the field it displays just Microsoft.com. I set the textbox to IsHyperlink. The only exception is when I click on the Microsoft.com it does not open the URL, it just shows the address with the #'s - Microsoft.com#http://Microsoft.com#. I have tried deleting the textbox and recreating, but it still does not open URL. Virginia -----Original Message----- From: =?UNKNOWN?Q?J=FCrgen?= Welz [mailto:jwelz at hotmail.com] Sent: Wednesday, March 17, 2004 4:46 PM To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: RE: [AccessD] RE: Hyperlink Field Using Access 2000, I use Hyperlink datatype in the table and just a regular textbox in a form. No need to set the IsHyperlink property. Cursor is a hand when the mouse goes over the textbox and it launches a browser instance pointed at the URL when clicked once. Text appears as plain text in the textbox. If I store: ezonemag.com in the table, it appears as a hyperlink in the table but looks like plain text in the textbox. Tab into the field and hit F2 (edit) and it changes from hyperlink to clickable text until the focus is off the text box again when it reverts to acting like a hyperlink but looking like text. Text shown in the text box for the example is: ezonemag.com#http://www.ezonemag.com# I've never tried setting the IsHyperlink property True before today and the difference on my system (still running Win 95 on my current work machine, 64 meg peer 'server') is that it displays as a hyperlink in the textbox. Hitting the edit shows the same text, but underlined like a hyperlink, as though the IsHyperlink property was false. Ciao J?rgen Welz Edmonton, Alberta jwelz at hotmail.com _________________________________________________________________ MSN Premium with Virus Guard and Firewall* from McAfee? Security : 2 months FREE* http://join.msn.com/?pgmarket=en-ca&page=byoa/prem&xAPID=1994&DI=1034&SU=htt p://hotmail.com/enca&HL=Market_MSNIS_Taglines -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From Subscriptions at servicexp.com Thu Mar 18 06:14:43 2004 From: Subscriptions at servicexp.com (Robert Gracie) Date: Thu, 18 Mar 2004 07:14:43 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] IsEncrypted Function?? In-Reply-To: <1048451652.20040318111843@cactus.dk> Message-ID: Does anyone have an IsEncrypted Function I can use? Robert Gracie www.servicexp.com From stuart at lexacorp.com.pg Thu Mar 18 06:28:30 2004 From: stuart at lexacorp.com.pg (Stuart McLachlan) Date: Thu, 18 Mar 2004 22:28:30 +1000 Subject: [AccessD] IsEncrypted Function?? In-Reply-To: References: <1048451652.20040318111843@cactus.dk> Message-ID: <405A228E.19152.328F7E2@localhost> On 18 Mar 2004 at 7:14, Robert Gracie wrote: > > Does anyone have an IsEncrypted Function I can use? > > To test whether *what* is encrypted? -- Lexacorp Ltd http://www.lexacorp.com.pg Information Technology Consultancy, Software Development,System Support. From Subscriptions at servicexp.com Thu Mar 18 06:34:44 2004 From: Subscriptions at servicexp.com (Robert Gracie) Date: Thu, 18 Mar 2004 07:34:44 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] IsEncrypted Function?? In-Reply-To: <405A228E.19152.328F7E2@localhost> Message-ID: I'm sorry.... A file and or a string....... Robert Gracie www.servicexp.com -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Stuart McLachlan Sent: Thursday, March 18, 2004 7:29 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] IsEncrypted Function?? On 18 Mar 2004 at 7:14, Robert Gracie wrote: > > Does anyone have an IsEncrypted Function I can use? > > To test whether *what* is encrypted? -- Lexacorp Ltd http://www.lexacorp.com.pg Information Technology Consultancy, Software Development,System Support. -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From gustav at cactus.dk Thu Mar 18 06:43:35 2004 From: gustav at cactus.dk (Gustav Brock) Date: Thu, 18 Mar 2004 13:43:35 +0100 Subject: [AccessD] IsEncrypted Function?? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <9117142960.20040318134335@cactus.dk> Hi Robert If it contains spaces, it is probably not encrypted. If it doesn't, I dont think you can say anything for sure ... /gustav > I'm sorry.... A file and or a string....... >> Does anyone have an IsEncrypted Function I can use? From stuart at lexacorp.com.pg Thu Mar 18 06:51:45 2004 From: stuart at lexacorp.com.pg (Stuart McLachlan) Date: Thu, 18 Mar 2004 22:51:45 +1000 Subject: [AccessD] IsEncrypted Function?? In-Reply-To: References: <405A228E.19152.328F7E2@localhost> Message-ID: <405A2801.28617.33E411A@localhost> > I'm sorry.... A file and or a string....... > > Robert Gracie > www.servicexp.com > > > > > > > Does anyone have an IsEncrypted Function I can use? > > > > > To test whether *what* is encrypted? > What encryption scheme. There's no way to look at a string and say whether it is encrypted or not unless you know what sort of encrytion scheme is used or have an idea of what the original was. Sometimes not even then. Here are two strings: "ABC" "NOP". One is ROT13 encrypted. Which one? Depends on whether the original string was "ABC" or "NOP" :-) -- Lexacorp Ltd http://www.lexacorp.com.pg Information Technology Consultancy, Software Development,System Support. From jmoss111 at bellsouth.net Thu Mar 18 10:19:44 2004 From: jmoss111 at bellsouth.net (JMoss) Date: Thu, 18 Mar 2004 08:19:44 -0800 Subject: [AccessD] RE: Hyperlink Field In-Reply-To: Message-ID: I set a column to type text, and the text box on the form to ishyperlink and the hyperlink worked perfectly. Then I set a column to type hyperlink and left the text box as is and the URL worked perfectly too. Only after I changed data type did I ever see the #. I had to delete the column from the table and recreate to get rid of the last behaviour, ie the # Using Win 2000/Access 2000 for this case. -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of J?rgen Welz Sent: Wednesday, March 17, 2004 2:46 PM To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: RE: [AccessD] RE: Hyperlink Field Using Access 2000, I use Hyperlink datatype in the table and just a regular textbox in a form. No need to set the IsHyperlink property. Cursor is a hand when the mouse goes over the textbox and it launches a browser instance pointed at the URL when clicked once. Text appears as plain text in the textbox. If I store: ezonemag.com in the table, it appears as a hyperlink in the table but looks like plain text in the textbox. Tab into the field and hit F2 (edit) and it changes from hyperlink to clickable text until the focus is off the text box again when it reverts to acting like a hyperlink but looking like text. Text shown in the text box for the example is: ezonemag.com#http://www.ezonemag.com# I've never tried setting the IsHyperlink property True before today and the difference on my system (still running Win 95 on my current work machine, 64 meg peer 'server') is that it displays as a hyperlink in the textbox. Hitting the edit shows the same text, but underlined like a hyperlink, as though the IsHyperlink property was false. Ciao J?rgen Welz Edmonton, Alberta jwelz at hotmail.com _________________________________________________________________ MSN Premium with Virus Guard and Firewall* from McAfee? Security : 2 months FREE* http://join.msn.com/?pgmarket=en-ca&page=byoa/prem&xAPID=1994&DI=1034&SU=htt p://hotmail.com/enca&HL=Market_MSNIS_Taglines -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From prodevmg at yahoo.com Thu Mar 18 08:25:00 2004 From: prodevmg at yahoo.com (Lonnie Johnson) Date: Thu, 18 Mar 2004 06:25:00 -0800 (PST) Subject: [AccessD] Terminal Server and Access XP In-Reply-To: <2F8793082E00D4119A1700B0D0216BF80222797F@main2.marlow.com> Message-ID: <20040318142500.19121.qmail@web20414.mail.yahoo.com> We gave them power user rights, still couldn't run the code. We gave them administrator rights, still couldn't run the code. Our guts are hurting now. DWUTKA at marlow.com wrote: If it works logged in as an Admin, then it's a permissions issue. Are the logged in users 'power users'? Drew -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Lonnie Johnson Sent: Tuesday, March 16, 2004 7:04 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] Terminal Server and Access XP Nope. I was kinda hoping there was. It works if we log onto the terminal server as administrator, but not as a regular user. Would this be at the registry level? DWUTKA at marlow.com wrote:Any missing references? Drew -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Lonnie Johnson Sent: Monday, March 15, 2004 3:56 PM To: 'MS-ACCESS-L at lists.missouri.edu'; AccessDevelopers; ms_access; AccessD solving' Subject: [AccessD] Terminal Server and Access XP Users are getting a "Run-Time error 13, type mis match" when the application tries to cycle through some controls with the following: Dim ctl as Control For Each ctl in Me.Controls... This works fine in A97 and XP on regular machines. It even works for the administrator on a terminal server machine, but not regular users on terminal server. Anyone have a clue????????? Lonnie Johnson ProDev, Professional Development of MS Access Databases Visit me at ==> http://www.prodev.us Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Mail - More reliable, more storage, less spam -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com Lonnie Johnson ProDev, Professional Development of MS Access Databases Visit me at ==> http://www.prodev.us Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Mail - More reliable, more storage, less spam -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com Lonnie Johnson ProDev, Professional Development of MS Access Databases Visit me at ==> http://www.prodev.us Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Mail - More reliable, more storage, less spam From dwaters at usinternet.com Thu Mar 18 08:33:35 2004 From: dwaters at usinternet.com (Dan Waters) Date: Thu, 18 Mar 2004 08:33:35 -0600 Subject: [AccessD] Import Date from Excel In-Reply-To: <28346463.1079569714435.JavaMail.root@sniper2.marix.com> Message-ID: <000001c40cf5$fef7ccb0$de1811d8@DanWaters> David, I believe that December 31, 1899 = 0 in Excel (on a PC that is not using 1904 date format). Check this to be sure. Perhaps you could add the 38018 to 12/31/1899 in code to get the correct date? HTH, Dan -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of David Emerson Sent: Wednesday, March 17, 2004 6:25 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Import Date from Excel A further piece of info - I can't set the SQL field to datetime as it rejects the number as not being a date when it is imported. David At 18/03/2004, you wrote: >I have a spreadsheet in Excel that is imported into a SQL2000 >table. Because the field types are unknown the SQL fields are varchar(200). > >The problem is with dates - excel shows a date as 2/1/2004 but in the SQL >table it is imported as 38018. > >I am using VBA to deal with each row at a time. How do I convert the >number (38018) into a date? > >Regards > >David Emerson >Dalyn Software Ltd >25 Cunliffe St, Churton Park >Wellington, New Zealand >Ph/Fax (877) 456-1205 >-- >_______________________________________________ >AccessD mailing list >AccessD at databaseadvisors.com >http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd >Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From dwaters at usinternet.com Thu Mar 18 08:33:35 2004 From: dwaters at usinternet.com (Dan Waters) Date: Thu, 18 Mar 2004 08:33:35 -0600 Subject: [AccessD] OT Wrist/Arm Pain - was Short Date Input Mask quest ion In-Reply-To: <30348442.1079561688018.JavaMail.root@sniper.marix.com> Message-ID: <000101c40cf5$ff5507e0$de1811d8@DanWaters> For me two things have eliminated all wrist pain. First is that I try to use a split keyboard as much as possible. This lets my wrists stay straight while typing. It took me about 2 weeks to get used to it. Second is that I use a very lightweight mouse. I'm currently using a Fellowes Mini Web Pro, which only weighs 2 or 3 ounces. Before doing the two things above, I occasionally had to stop for several hours due to wrist pain, but not any more! Most of my work is typing text/code and creating forms and reports. Dan -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of rusty.hammond at cpiqpc.com Sent: Wednesday, March 17, 2004 1:30 PM To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: RE: [AccessD] OT Wrist/Arm Pain - was Short Date Input Mask quest ion I've switched my mouse to left handed at work as well. What has really helped the most for me is a quick set of wrist excercises I do each morning. Takes about 2 minutes to do. -----Original Message----- From: Porter, Mark [mailto:MPorter at acsalaska.com] Sent: Wednesday, March 17, 2004 1:09 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: [AccessD] Short Date Input Mask question My solution for wrist/arm pain was to learn to use the mouse left-handed. Back when I was working and consulting in the evenings, I would use the left hand at work and right hand in the evenings. Now I just switch off. Nothing but occasional soreness now and again for the last 4 years. Mark > -----Original Message----- > From: Charlotte Foust [mailto:cfoust at infostatsystems.com] > Sent: Wednesday, March 17, 2004 8:38 AM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: RE: [AccessD] Short Date Input Mask question > > > Hah! I got tendonitis in my thumb using a trackball. Had to > go back to > a mouse. That just shows that there is no single right answer. :-} > > Charlotte Foust > > -----Original Message----- > From: William Hindman [mailto:wdhindman at bellsouth.net] > Sent: Wednesday, March 17, 2004 9:25 AM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: Re: [AccessD] Short Date Input Mask question > > > ...shortcut keys/number pad activate each calendar function > ...and I've > got every client converted to trackballs instead of mice ...I used to > have severe CTS using a mouse but since moving to trackballs I've been > symptom free :) > > William Hindman > You know the world is upside down when Bill Clinton wins a Grammy and > Janet Jackson is the subject of a government sex investigation. Argus > Hamilton. > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Heenan, Lambert" > To: "'Access Developers discussion and problem solving'" > > Sent: Wednesday, March 17, 2004 10:52 AM > Subject: RE: [AccessD] Short Date Input Mask question > > > > Bryan, > > > > Point taken. This was why I made the comment about mass > data input. In > point > > of fact it is possible, though a bit clunky, to select a > date with the > > > keyboard, and I should perhaps revisit the design on the > form to make > > it easier to do so. > > > > RSI is a serious problem, and I sympathize with your for having to > > deal > with > > it. However it's not confined to mouse use, indeed I > remember it first > being > > reported back in the 80's before mice very prevalent. In those days > > the blame was laid at the door of the extreme ease with > which computer > keyboards > > operated vs. manual typewriters. This allowed for very rapid > > keystrokes, which was thought to be the root cause of RSI. > > > > I also see people who have bizarre ideas about how they should > > position their keyboards and mice. In short there are lots > of factors > > involved, and at the end of the day the user has to figure out the > > best way to use the d*mned machines. So, to reiterate, I think I'll > > take the time to redesign > my > > date picker form to allow for better keyboard use of it. > > > > Lambert > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > From: Bryan Carbonnell [SMTP:Bryan_Carbonnell at cbc.ca] > > > Sent: Wednesday, March 17, 2004 9:52 AM > > > To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com > > > Subject: RE: [AccessD] Short Date Input Mask question > > > > > > Lambert, > > > > > > It may work fine for you, but does it work for your users? Do you > > > force them to use the mouse to select the date, or can they do > > > everything they need to from the keyboard? > > > > > > The only reason I bring this up is that I have had RSI > from moving > > > between the mouse and keyboard for data entry too much. It got to > > > the point where by 10 AM I could not feel my little > finger and half > > > of my lower arm becaude of it. > > > > > > As soon as I got one application that I used on a regular > basis more > > > > keyboard friendly it helped. > > > > > > Just try to keep that in mind. I know I always do. I let > users use > > > the mouse or enter with the keyboard. Their choice. > > > > > > Bryan Carbonnell > > > bryan_carbonnell at cbc.ca > > > > > > > > > >>> Lambert.Heenan at AIG.com 17-Mar-04 9:21:45 AM >>> > > > My solution to date entry is simple - I never let user's > type in a > > > date. They always pick the date from a simple calendar > form (though > > > I don't use > > > the MS Calendar control). Click on a date field and up > pops the date > > > picker. > > > While this would not be suitable, perhaps, in applications where > > > massive > > > numbers of dates need to be entered, I find it works just fine for > me. > > > > > > Lambert > > > > > > -- > > > _______________________________________________ > > > AccessD mailing list > > > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > > > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > -- > > _______________________________________________ > > AccessD mailing list > > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > **************************************************************************** ******* 17/3/2004 This transmittal may contain confidential information intended solely for the addressee. If you are not the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that you have received this transmittal in error; any review, dissemination, distribution or copying of this transmittal is strictly prohibited. If you have received this communication in error, please notify us immediately by reply or by telephone (collect at 907-564-1000) and ask to speak with the message sender. In addition, please immediately delete this message and all attachments. Thank you. ACS -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From Bryan_Carbonnell at cbc.ca Thu Mar 18 08:47:51 2004 From: Bryan_Carbonnell at cbc.ca (Bryan Carbonnell) Date: Thu, 18 Mar 2004 09:47:51 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Short Date Input Mask question Message-ID: > whether the user is military trained (euro dating) or public school trained > (US dating you hope) or wants to type in the alpha month, I get him there Don't you mean "US public school trained (US dating you hope)"? :) I would expect that public school trained folks here in Canada to use d-m-y and not m-d-y :-) Although I believe I was taught y-m-d, but maybe that was in University. I don't remeber Getting too senile Bryan Carbonnell bryan_carbonnell at cbc.ca >>> wdhindman at bellsouth.net 17-Mar-04 4:44:47 PM >>> ...yes and no ...convenient but a suck for bad data entry ime ...one types in 6/1/2004 ...one types in 1/6/2004 ...one types in 1 jun 04 and tabs on down the line, etc ...lecture me all day on dumb users but I don't have the option of firing them ...so I pop up a small calendar every time ...if the user enters directly in the text box, the calendar moves to the date entered to provide visual feedback ...if he/she selects from the calendar it fills the text box ...either way they can mouse it or keyboard it ...so no matter whether the user is military trained (euro dating) or public school trained (US dating you hope) or wants to type in the alpha month, I get him there somehow so that the right date gets entered ...nothings foolproof but date entry errors have gone to zero ...which is worth the cost of the popup to me and my clients. From Bryan_Carbonnell at cbc.ca Thu Mar 18 08:53:35 2004 From: Bryan_Carbonnell at cbc.ca (Bryan Carbonnell) Date: Thu, 18 Mar 2004 09:53:35 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] RE: Hyperlink Field Message-ID: Virginia, Under Tools|Options|Keyboard tab What is selected in the Behaviour entereing field frame? I would bet that it is NOT Select Entire field. Switch it to Select Entire Field, and try that. I think that might "fix" the problem. Bryan Carbonnell bryan_carbonnell at cbc.ca >>> HollisVJ at pgdp.usec.com 18-Mar-04 7:06:38 AM >>> I have set everything just as you have described - in A2K. The datatype is Hyperlink in the table and a textbox on the form, the cursor changes to a hand when I point to the field. In the field I put Microsoft.com, when I tab or click on the field it shows Microsoft.com#http://Microsoft.com#, when I exit the field it displays just Microsoft.com. I set the textbox to IsHyperlink. The only exception is when I click on the Microsoft.com it does not open the URL, it just shows the address with the #'s - Microsoft.com#http://Microsoft.com#. I have tried deleting the textbox and recreating, but it still does not open URL. From HollisVJ at pgdp.usec.com Thu Mar 18 09:13:54 2004 From: HollisVJ at pgdp.usec.com (Hollis,Virginia) Date: Thu, 18 Mar 2004 09:13:54 -0600 Subject: [AccessD] RE: Hyperlink Field Message-ID: <618EB4D6DDCDD3119B0A00508B6FD37A0CB0D35F@cntexchange.pgdp.usec.com> Give the man a beer!! He did it. Virginia -----Original Message----- From: Bryan Carbonnell [mailto:Bryan_Carbonnell at cbc.ca] Sent: Thursday, March 18, 2004 8:54 AM To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: RE: [AccessD] RE: Hyperlink Field Virginia, Under Tools|Options|Keyboard tab What is selected in the Behaviour entereing field frame? I would bet that it is NOT Select Entire field. Switch it to Select Entire Field, and try that. I think that might "fix" the problem. Bryan Carbonnell bryan_carbonnell at cbc.ca >>> HollisVJ at pgdp.usec.com 18-Mar-04 7:06:38 AM >>> I have set everything just as you have described - in A2K. The datatype is Hyperlink in the table and a textbox on the form, the cursor changes to a hand when I point to the field. In the field I put Microsoft.com, when I tab or click on the field it shows Microsoft.com#http://Microsoft.com#, when I exit the field it displays just Microsoft.com. I set the textbox to IsHyperlink. The only exception is when I click on the Microsoft.com it does not open the URL, it just shows the address with the #'s - Microsoft.com#http://Microsoft.com#. I have tried deleting the textbox and recreating, but it still does not open URL. -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From Bryan_Carbonnell at cbc.ca Thu Mar 18 09:17:18 2004 From: Bryan_Carbonnell at cbc.ca (Bryan Carbonnell) Date: Thu, 18 Mar 2004 10:17:18 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] RE: Hyperlink Field Message-ID: Glad that was it. Bryan Carbonnell bryan_carbonnell at cbc.ca >>> HollisVJ at pgdp.usec.com 18-Mar-04 10:13:54 AM >>> Give the man a beer!! He did it. Virginia -----Original Message----- From: Bryan Carbonnell [mailto:Bryan_Carbonnell at cbc.ca] Sent: Thursday, March 18, 2004 8:54 AM To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: RE: [AccessD] RE: Hyperlink Field Virginia, Under Tools|Options|Keyboard tab What is selected in the Behaviour entereing field frame? I would bet that it is NOT Select Entire field. Switch it to Select Entire Field, and try that. I think that might "fix" the problem. From HollisVJ at pgdp.usec.com Thu Mar 18 09:20:22 2004 From: HollisVJ at pgdp.usec.com (Hollis,Virginia) Date: Thu, 18 Mar 2004 09:20:22 -0600 Subject: [AccessD] Sending Preformatted Emails Message-ID: <618EB4D6DDCDD3119B0A00508B6FD37A0CB0D360@cntexchange.pgdp.usec.com> This is my week for problems & questions - I am glad everyone has patience :-) We just switched to XP (another problem there). I have a database that sends a preformatted email when a requestor enters a task. The email is sent to an engineer to complete the task. The email contains the request number, a description of the request, etc from fields completed on the form. The problem is since we switched to XP, the user can enter a request and send only 1 email. If they enter another request, they can't send another email without exiting the database completely and going back in. So, with XP, it only permits one email at a time. There isn't an error message, if the button to send the email is clicked, nothing happens at all. Has anyone had any problems with this or any suggestions on how to solve the problem? Virginia From jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com Thu Mar 18 09:35:26 2004 From: jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com (John W. Colby) Date: Thu, 18 Mar 2004 10:35:26 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] zip/unzip Message-ID: I have always used the zip / unzip classes from Steve McMahon: ' Name: vbAccelerator cUnzip class ' Author: Steve McMahon (steve at vbaccelerator.com) ' Date: 1 January 2000 ' ' Requires: Info-ZIP's Zip32.DLL v2.32, renamed to vbzip10.dll ' mZip.bas ' which requires vbzip10.dll which I have managed to lose. I downloaded the zipped dlls but neither one will register on two computers at my office. Does anyone have these files you could email to me? Thanks, John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com From mikedorism at adelphia.net Thu Mar 18 09:37:06 2004 From: mikedorism at adelphia.net (Mike & Doris Manning) Date: Thu, 18 Mar 2004 10:37:06 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Sending Preformatted Emails In-Reply-To: <618EB4D6DDCDD3119B0A00508B6FD37A0CB0D360@cntexchange.pgdp.usec.com> Message-ID: <000001c40cfe$de874510$6ae44344@hargrove.internal> Can you post the code behind the button so we can see what you are doing now? Doris Manning Database Administrator Hargrove Inc. www.hargroveinc.com -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Hollis,Virginia Sent: Thursday, March 18, 2004 10:20 AM To: 'accessd at databaseadvisors.com' Subject: [AccessD] Sending Preformatted Emails This is my week for problems & questions - I am glad everyone has patience :-) We just switched to XP (another problem there). I have a database that sends a preformatted email when a requestor enters a task. The email is sent to an engineer to complete the task. The email contains the request number, a description of the request, etc from fields completed on the form. The problem is since we switched to XP, the user can enter a request and send only 1 email. If they enter another request, they can't send another email without exiting the database completely and going back in. So, with XP, it only permits one email at a time. There isn't an error message, if the button to send the email is clicked, nothing happens at all. Has anyone had any problems with this or any suggestions on how to solve the problem? Virginia -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From greggs at msn.com Thu Mar 18 09:54:49 2004 From: greggs at msn.com (Gregg) Date: Thu, 18 Mar 2004 09:54:49 -0600 Subject: [AccessD] Sending Preformatted Emails In-Reply-To: <618EB4D6DDCDD3119B0A00508B6FD37A0CB0D360@cntexchange.pgdp.usec.com> Message-ID: Virginia, If this is an Access 2K app there is a bug in the sendobject command that causes this unless you have loaded service pack 3. -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Hollis,Virginia Sent: Thursday, March 18, 2004 9:20 AM To: 'accessd at databaseadvisors.com' Subject: [AccessD] Sending Preformatted Emails This is my week for problems & questions - I am glad everyone has patience :-) We just switched to XP (another problem there). I have a database that sends a preformatted email when a requestor enters a task. The email is sent to an engineer to complete the task. The email contains the request number, a description of the request, etc from fields completed on the form. The problem is since we switched to XP, the user can enter a request and send only 1 email. If they enter another request, they can't send another email without exiting the database completely and going back in. So, with XP, it only permits one email at a time. There isn't an error message, if the button to send the email is clicked, nothing happens at all. Has anyone had any problems with this or any suggestions on how to solve the problem? Virginia -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From HollisVJ at pgdp.usec.com Thu Mar 18 09:44:56 2004 From: HollisVJ at pgdp.usec.com (Hollis,Virginia) Date: Thu, 18 Mar 2004 09:44:56 -0600 Subject: [AccessD] Sending Preformatted Emails Message-ID: <618EB4D6DDCDD3119B0A00508B6FD37A0CB0D362@cntexchange.pgdp.usec.com> Private Sub cmdSendEmail_Click() On Error GoTo Err_cmdSendEmail_Click If Len(MatRequestID & "") = 0 Then MsgBox "Enter a Request before sending a message." & vbCrLf, vbCritical, " Entry Required" ElseIf Len(RequestorID & "") = 0 Then MsgBox "The requestor must be entered." & vbCrLf, vbCritical, " Entry Required" RequestorID.SetFocus ElseIf Len(PriorityID & "") = 0 Then MsgBox "Please enter a priority." & vbCrLf, vbCritical, " Entry Required" PriorityID.SetFocus ElseIf Len(DateNeeded & "") = 0 Then MsgBox "The date needed must be entered." & vbCrLf, vbCritical, "Entry Required" DateNeeded.SetFocus ElseIf Len(Comments & "") = 0 Then MsgBox "A description of the request must be entered." & vbCrLf, vbCritical, " Entry Required" Comments.SetFocus Else Dim Mess As String, Subject As String, Recipient As String, Cc As String, Bcc As String Dim Msg, Style, Title, Response, MyString PlaySound Msg = "Do you want to send a notification ?" ' Define message. Style = vbYesNo + vbQuestion + vbDefaultButton1 ' Define buttons. Title = "New Notice Request" ' Define title. ' Display message. Response = MsgBox(Msg, Style, Title) If Response = vbYes Then ' User chose Yes. MyString = "Yes" ' Perform some action. Recipient = DLookup("[EmailName]", "qry_Email") Subject = "New Materials Request, MMR-" + CStr(Format([MatRequestID], "00000")) Cc = DLookup("[Requestor]", "qry_Requestor", "[RequestorID]=[Forms]![frm_MaterialsEntry]![RequestorID]") Bcc = "Virginia Hollis" Mess = "A new Materials Management Request has been submitted, " + _ "please assign an analyst to complete this request:" + vbCrLf + vbCrLf + _ "Materials ID: MMR-" + CStr(Format([MatRequestID], "00000")) + vbCrLf + _ "Description: " + [Comments] + vbCrLf + _ "Need by Date " + CStr([DateNeeded]) + vbCrLf + _ "Requestor: " + DLookup("[Requestor]", "qry_Requestor", "[RequestorID]=[Forms]![frm_MaterialsEntry]![RequestorID]") + vbCrLf + _ "Phone: " + DLookup("[ReqPhone]", "qry_Requestor", "[RequestorID]=[Forms]![frm_MaterialsEntry]![RequestorID]") On Error Resume Next DoCmd.SendObject , , , Recipient, Cc, Bcc, Subject, Mess Else ' User chose No. MyString = "No" ' Perform some action. End If End If -----Original Message----- From: Mike & Doris Manning [mailto:mikedorism at adelphia.net] Sent: Thursday, March 18, 2004 9:37 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: [AccessD] Sending Preformatted Emails Can you post the code behind the button so we can see what you are doing now? Doris Manning Database Administrator Hargrove Inc. www.hargroveinc.com -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Hollis,Virginia Sent: Thursday, March 18, 2004 10:20 AM To: 'accessd at databaseadvisors.com' Subject: [AccessD] Sending Preformatted Emails This is my week for problems & questions - I am glad everyone has patience :-) We just switched to XP (another problem there). I have a database that sends a preformatted email when a requestor enters a task. The email is sent to an engineer to complete the task. The email contains the request number, a description of the request, etc from fields completed on the form. The problem is since we switched to XP, the user can enter a request and send only 1 email. If they enter another request, they can't send another email without exiting the database completely and going back in. So, with XP, it only permits one email at a time. There isn't an error message, if the button to send the email is clicked, nothing happens at all. Has anyone had any problems with this or any suggestions on how to solve the problem? Virginia -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From HollisVJ at pgdp.usec.com Thu Mar 18 09:53:23 2004 From: HollisVJ at pgdp.usec.com (Hollis,Virginia) Date: Thu, 18 Mar 2004 09:53:23 -0600 Subject: [AccessD] Sending Preformatted Emails Message-ID: <618EB4D6DDCDD3119B0A00508B6FD37A0CB0D363@cntexchange.pgdp.usec.com> IT tells me they won't download SP3 because of something to do with a security hole in Outlook. -----Original Message----- From: Gregg [mailto:greggs at msn.com] Sent: Thursday, March 18, 2004 9:55 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] Sending Preformatted Emails Virginia, If this is an Access 2K app there is a bug in the sendobject command that causes this unless you have loaded service pack 3. -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Hollis,Virginia Sent: Thursday, March 18, 2004 9:20 AM To: 'accessd at databaseadvisors.com' Subject: [AccessD] Sending Preformatted Emails This is my week for problems & questions - I am glad everyone has patience :-) We just switched to XP (another problem there). I have a database that sends a preformatted email when a requestor enters a task. The email is sent to an engineer to complete the task. The email contains the request number, a description of the request, etc from fields completed on the form. The problem is since we switched to XP, the user can enter a request and send only 1 email. If they enter another request, they can't send another email without exiting the database completely and going back in. So, with XP, it only permits one email at a time. There isn't an error message, if the button to send the email is clicked, nothing happens at all. Has anyone had any problems with this or any suggestions on how to solve the problem? Virginia -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From john at winhaven.net Thu Mar 18 10:04:54 2004 From: john at winhaven.net (John Bartow) Date: Thu, 18 Mar 2004 10:04:54 -0600 Subject: [AccessD] zip/unzip In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Hi John, Do you just need the vbzip10.dll file? I can send it offline. John B. -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of John W. Colby Sent: Thursday, March 18, 2004 9:35 AM To: AccessD Subject: [AccessD] zip/unzip I have always used the zip / unzip classes from Steve McMahon: ' Name: vbAccelerator cUnzip class ' Author: Steve McMahon (steve at vbaccelerator.com) ' Date: 1 January 2000 ' ' Requires: Info-ZIP's Zip32.DLL v2.32, renamed to vbzip10.dll ' mZip.bas ' which requires vbzip10.dll which I have managed to lose. I downloaded the zipped dlls but neither one will register on two computers at my office. Does anyone have these files you could email to me? Thanks, John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From ggonzalez at cccis.com Thu Mar 18 10:08:21 2004 From: ggonzalez at cccis.com (ggonzalez at cccis.com) Date: Thu, 18 Mar 2004 10:08:21 -0600 Subject: [AccessD] zip/unzip In-Reply-To: Message-ID: is this waht you are looking for http://www.vbaccelerator.com/home/VB/Code/Libraries/Compression/Introduction_to_the_Info-ZIP_Libraries/Info-ZIP_Zip_DLL_(Renamed_vbzip10_dll).asp From greggs at msn.com Thu Mar 18 10:20:58 2004 From: greggs at msn.com (Gregg) Date: Thu, 18 Mar 2004 10:20:58 -0600 Subject: [AccessD] Sending Preformatted Emails In-Reply-To: <618EB4D6DDCDD3119B0A00508B6FD37A0CB0D362@cntexchange.pgdp.usec.com> Message-ID: There some work around code you can put into a module... its quite large but it is your only hope. Here's the fix. http://support.microsoft.com/default.aspx?scid=kb;en-us;260819&Product=acc20 00 -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Hollis,Virginia Sent: Thursday, March 18, 2004 9:45 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: [AccessD] Sending Preformatted Emails Private Sub cmdSendEmail_Click() On Error GoTo Err_cmdSendEmail_Click If Len(MatRequestID & "") = 0 Then MsgBox "Enter a Request before sending a message." & vbCrLf, vbCritical, " Entry Required" ElseIf Len(RequestorID & "") = 0 Then MsgBox "The requestor must be entered." & vbCrLf, vbCritical, " Entry Required" RequestorID.SetFocus ElseIf Len(PriorityID & "") = 0 Then MsgBox "Please enter a priority." & vbCrLf, vbCritical, " Entry Required" PriorityID.SetFocus ElseIf Len(DateNeeded & "") = 0 Then MsgBox "The date needed must be entered." & vbCrLf, vbCritical, "Entry Required" DateNeeded.SetFocus ElseIf Len(Comments & "") = 0 Then MsgBox "A description of the request must be entered." & vbCrLf, vbCritical, " Entry Required" Comments.SetFocus Else Dim Mess As String, Subject As String, Recipient As String, Cc As String, Bcc As String Dim Msg, Style, Title, Response, MyString PlaySound Msg = "Do you want to send a notification ?" ' Define message. Style = vbYesNo + vbQuestion + vbDefaultButton1 ' Define buttons. Title = "New Notice Request" ' Define title. ' Display message. Response = MsgBox(Msg, Style, Title) If Response = vbYes Then ' User chose Yes. MyString = "Yes" ' Perform some action. Recipient = DLookup("[EmailName]", "qry_Email") Subject = "New Materials Request, MMR-" + CStr(Format([MatRequestID], "00000")) Cc = DLookup("[Requestor]", "qry_Requestor", "[RequestorID]=[Forms]![frm_MaterialsEntry]![RequestorID]") Bcc = "Virginia Hollis" Mess = "A new Materials Management Request has been submitted, " + _ "please assign an analyst to complete this request:" + vbCrLf + vbCrLf + _ "Materials ID: MMR-" + CStr(Format([MatRequestID], "00000")) + vbCrLf + _ "Description: " + [Comments] + vbCrLf + _ "Need by Date " + CStr([DateNeeded]) + vbCrLf + _ "Requestor: " + DLookup("[Requestor]", "qry_Requestor", "[RequestorID]=[Forms]![frm_MaterialsEntry]![RequestorID]") + vbCrLf + _ "Phone: " + DLookup("[ReqPhone]", "qry_Requestor", "[RequestorID]=[Forms]![frm_MaterialsEntry]![RequestorID]") On Error Resume Next DoCmd.SendObject , , , Recipient, Cc, Bcc, Subject, Mess Else ' User chose No. MyString = "No" ' Perform some action. End If End If -----Original Message----- From: Mike & Doris Manning [mailto:mikedorism at adelphia.net] Sent: Thursday, March 18, 2004 9:37 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: [AccessD] Sending Preformatted Emails Can you post the code behind the button so we can see what you are doing now? Doris Manning Database Administrator Hargrove Inc. www.hargroveinc.com -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Hollis,Virginia Sent: Thursday, March 18, 2004 10:20 AM To: 'accessd at databaseadvisors.com' Subject: [AccessD] Sending Preformatted Emails This is my week for problems & questions - I am glad everyone has patience :-) We just switched to XP (another problem there). I have a database that sends a preformatted email when a requestor enters a task. The email is sent to an engineer to complete the task. The email contains the request number, a description of the request, etc from fields completed on the form. The problem is since we switched to XP, the user can enter a request and send only 1 email. If they enter another request, they can't send another email without exiting the database completely and going back in. So, with XP, it only permits one email at a time. There isn't an error message, if the button to send the email is clicked, nothing happens at all. Has anyone had any problems with this or any suggestions on how to solve the problem? Virginia -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From cfoust at infostatsystems.com Thu Mar 18 10:28:06 2004 From: cfoust at infostatsystems.com (Charlotte Foust) Date: Thu, 18 Mar 2004 08:28:06 -0800 Subject: [AccessD] OT Wrist/Arm Pain - was Short Date Input Mask quest ion Message-ID: I've never had wrist problems from typing, only from reaching out and up to use the mouse. A keyboard shelf with and articlating mouse shelf puts the mouse level with the wrist rest for the keyboard, and I haven't had any problems since. PS/ I *hate* split keyboards and those ergonomic nightmares. I CANNOT type with my elbows stuck out like open doors! Charlotte Foust -----Original Message----- From: Dan Waters [mailto:dwaters at usinternet.com] Sent: Thursday, March 18, 2004 6:34 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: [AccessD] OT Wrist/Arm Pain - was Short Date Input Mask quest ion For me two things have eliminated all wrist pain. First is that I try to use a split keyboard as much as possible. This lets my wrists stay straight while typing. It took me about 2 weeks to get used to it. Second is that I use a very lightweight mouse. I'm currently using a Fellowes Mini Web Pro, which only weighs 2 or 3 ounces. Before doing the two things above, I occasionally had to stop for several hours due to wrist pain, but not any more! Most of my work is typing text/code and creating forms and reports. Dan -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of rusty.hammond at cpiqpc.com Sent: Wednesday, March 17, 2004 1:30 PM To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: RE: [AccessD] OT Wrist/Arm Pain - was Short Date Input Mask quest ion I've switched my mouse to left handed at work as well. What has really helped the most for me is a quick set of wrist excercises I do each morning. Takes about 2 minutes to do. -----Original Message----- From: Porter, Mark [mailto:MPorter at acsalaska.com] Sent: Wednesday, March 17, 2004 1:09 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: [AccessD] Short Date Input Mask question My solution for wrist/arm pain was to learn to use the mouse left-handed. Back when I was working and consulting in the evenings, I would use the left hand at work and right hand in the evenings. Now I just switch off. Nothing but occasional soreness now and again for the last 4 years. Mark > -----Original Message----- > From: Charlotte Foust [mailto:cfoust at infostatsystems.com] > Sent: Wednesday, March 17, 2004 8:38 AM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: RE: [AccessD] Short Date Input Mask question > > > Hah! I got tendonitis in my thumb using a trackball. Had to > go back to > a mouse. That just shows that there is no single right answer. :-} > > Charlotte Foust > > -----Original Message----- > From: William Hindman [mailto:wdhindman at bellsouth.net] > Sent: Wednesday, March 17, 2004 9:25 AM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: Re: [AccessD] Short Date Input Mask question > > > ...shortcut keys/number pad activate each calendar function > ...and I've > got every client converted to trackballs instead of mice ...I used to > have severe CTS using a mouse but since moving to trackballs I've been > symptom free :) > > William Hindman > You know the world is upside down when Bill Clinton wins a Grammy and > Janet Jackson is the subject of a government sex investigation. Argus > Hamilton. > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Heenan, Lambert" > To: "'Access Developers discussion and problem solving'" > > Sent: Wednesday, March 17, 2004 10:52 AM > Subject: RE: [AccessD] Short Date Input Mask question > > > > Bryan, > > > > Point taken. This was why I made the comment about mass > data input. In > point > > of fact it is possible, though a bit clunky, to select a > date with the > > > keyboard, and I should perhaps revisit the design on the > form to make > > it easier to do so. > > > > RSI is a serious problem, and I sympathize with your for having to > > deal > with > > it. However it's not confined to mouse use, indeed I > remember it first > being > > reported back in the 80's before mice very prevalent. In those days > > the blame was laid at the door of the extreme ease with > which computer > keyboards > > operated vs. manual typewriters. This allowed for very rapid > > keystrokes, which was thought to be the root cause of RSI. > > > > I also see people who have bizarre ideas about how they should > > position their keyboards and mice. In short there are lots > of factors > > involved, and at the end of the day the user has to figure out the > > best way to use the d*mned machines. So, to reiterate, I think I'll > > take the time to redesign > my > > date picker form to allow for better keyboard use of it. > > > > Lambert > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > From: Bryan Carbonnell [SMTP:Bryan_Carbonnell at cbc.ca] > > > Sent: Wednesday, March 17, 2004 9:52 AM > > > To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com > > > Subject: RE: [AccessD] Short Date Input Mask question > > > > > > Lambert, > > > > > > It may work fine for you, but does it work for your users? Do you > > > force them to use the mouse to select the date, or can they do > > > everything they need to from the keyboard? > > > > > > The only reason I bring this up is that I have had RSI > from moving > > > between the mouse and keyboard for data entry too much. It got to > > > the point where by 10 AM I could not feel my little > finger and half > > > of my lower arm becaude of it. > > > > > > As soon as I got one application that I used on a regular > basis more > > > > keyboard friendly it helped. > > > > > > Just try to keep that in mind. I know I always do. I let > users use > > > the mouse or enter with the keyboard. Their choice. > > > > > > Bryan Carbonnell > > > bryan_carbonnell at cbc.ca > > > > > > > > > >>> Lambert.Heenan at AIG.com 17-Mar-04 9:21:45 AM >>> > > > My solution to date entry is simple - I never let user's > type in a > > > date. They always pick the date from a simple calendar > form (though > > > I don't use > > > the MS Calendar control). Click on a date field and up > pops the date > > > picker. > > > While this would not be suitable, perhaps, in applications where > > > massive numbers of dates need to be entered, I find it works just > > > fine for > me. > > > > > > Lambert > > > > > > -- > > > _______________________________________________ > > > AccessD mailing list > > > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > > > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > -- > > _______________________________________________ > > AccessD mailing list > > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > ************************************************************************ **** ******* 17/3/2004 This transmittal may contain confidential information intended solely for the addressee. 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ACS -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com Thu Mar 18 10:42:41 2004 From: jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com (John W. Colby) Date: Thu, 18 Mar 2004 11:42:41 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] zip/unzip In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Thats where I got them from. They won't register. -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of ggonzalez at cccis.com Sent: Thursday, March 18, 2004 11:08 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] zip/unzip is this waht you are looking for http://www.vbaccelerator.com/home/VB/Code/Libraries/Compression/Introduction _to_the_Info-ZIP_Libraries/Info-ZIP_Zip_DLL_(Renamed_vbzip10_dll).asp -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From rl_stewart at highstream.net Thu Mar 18 11:04:55 2004 From: rl_stewart at highstream.net (Robert L. Stewart) Date: Thu, 18 Mar 2004 11:04:55 -0600 Subject: [AccessD] Re: Re: Hyperlink Field In-Reply-To: <200403181434.i2IEYVM26069@databaseadvisors.com> Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20040318110136.02ad3800@pop3.highstream.net> Stuart, Try Hyperlink Address and Hyperlink subaddress properties for a label. Access 97, 2000, 2002, 2003 After looking at what she asked closer, I think all she needs to do is add a hyperlink datatype column to her table. Robert At 08:34 AM 3/18/2004 -0600, you wrote: >Message: 5 >Date: Thu, 18 Mar 2004 08:12:52 +1000 >From: "Stuart McLachlan" >Subject: Re: [AccessD] Re: Hyperlink Field >To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > >Message-ID: <40595A04.4146.19A0E9 at localhost> >Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII > >On 17 Mar 2004 at 15:53, Robert L. Stewart wrote: > > > Virginia, > > > > The trick is that a label has the hyperlink > > property and not a text box. Use a label > > and set the properties for it in code. > > > > > >Not in any version of Access I've ever seen. > >The "Is hyperlink" property is the last one in the "Format" tab of >the textbox "Properties" dialog. From gustav at cactus.dk Thu Mar 18 11:22:41 2004 From: gustav at cactus.dk (Gustav Brock) Date: Thu, 18 Mar 2004 18:22:41 +0100 Subject: [AccessD] Sending Preformatted Emails In-Reply-To: <618EB4D6DDCDD3119B0A00508B6FD37A0CB0D362@cntexchange.pgdp.usec.com> References: <618EB4D6DDCDD3119B0A00508B6FD37A0CB0D362@cntexchange.pgdp.usec.com> Message-ID: <18933889140.20040318182241@cactus.dk> Hi Virginia Try commenting out this: ' On Error Resume Next and watch if something happens. /gustav From DWUTKA at marlow.com Thu Mar 18 11:28:47 2004 From: DWUTKA at marlow.com (DWUTKA at marlow.com) Date: Thu, 18 Mar 2004 11:28:47 -0600 Subject: [AccessD] Short Date Input Mask question Message-ID: <2F8793082E00D4119A1700B0D0216BF80222798B@main2.marlow.com> Wait until I get that thing finished....THEN you'll have a reason to try my new one.... grin. Of course, you'll probably complain about how 'un-mini' it is...LOL! Drew -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of William Hindman Sent: Wednesday, March 17, 2004 3:45 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Short Date Input Mask question ...yes and no ...convenient but a suck for bad data entry ime ...one types in 6/1/2004 ...one types in 1/6/2004 ...one types in 1 jun 04 and tabs on down the line, etc ...lecture me all day on dumb users but I don't have the option of firing them ...so I pop up a small calendar every time ...if the user enters directly in the text box, the calendar moves to the date entered to provide visual feedback ...if he/she selects from the calendar it fills the text box ...either way they can mouse it or keyboard it ...so no matter whether the user is military trained (euro dating) or public school trained (US dating you hope) or wants to type in the alpha month, I get him there somehow so that the right date gets entered ...nothings foolproof but date entry errors have gone to zero ...which is worth the cost of the popup to me and my clients. ...as a side I tried this approach using the native calendar control and could never make its speed acceptable ...after a lot of experimentation I standardized on an older version of Drew's all vba code calendar (with some mods) which is quite fast for my needs ...one of these days I might get around to using his newest version but I've not found a reason to as yet :) William Hindman You know the world is upside down when Bill Clinton wins a Grammy and Janet Jackson is the subject of a government sex investigation. Argus Hamilton. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Brett Barabash" To: "'Access Developers discussion and problem solving'" Sent: Wednesday, March 17, 2004 3:43 PM Subject: RE: [AccessD] Short Date Input Mask question > >I do not believe that providing a pop up calendar is incorrect especially > as > >the users can tab into a date field and use a keyboard in any event. > > You missed my point. This is EXACTLY my sentiment. > > I said: > >One of my biggest UI pet peeves is fields that disallow keyboard entry. > > My response was to someone who doesn't allow the user to tab into a date > field and forces them to open up a calendar instead. In my opinion, this is > a lazy way of avoiding date validation code. > > Have you ever used a program or website that forces you to use a calendar to > enter your birthdate? (I have!) Personally, I find it a PITA to click a > button to open a calendar, navigate to 1975, select May from a dropdown and > then click on the 6. I'd like to type 05/06/1975, but some lazy programmer > decided that it's way more elegant to launch a special screen to guide me > through this complex process. > > OTOH, Outlook gives you several different options for date selection. To > schedule a meeting for tomorrow, I can type... > 03/18/2004 > March 18, 2004 > 2004 Mar 18 > ...or click on the box next to the field if I want to see a calendar. > > The developers put a lot of thought into this and because of its inherent > flexibility it is easy to use by all types of users. I wish other pieces of > software were as ambitious. > > > -----Original Message----- > From: J?rgen Welz [mailto:jwelz at hotmail.com] > Sent: Wednesday, March 17, 2004 1:45 PM > To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com > Subject: RE: [AccessD] Short Date Input Mask question > > At one point a few years ago at this list I made a similar comment saying I > provided a doubleclick pop up calendar and received a similar response. As > a result, I once logged usage of: > > Double click pop up calendar > vs > Key down with form key preview on, Alt-d pops calendar if screen active > control had a standard input mask property. > > I also considered a keyboard autokeys macro call a runcode that did the same > > thing but never did implement this version. > > Logging indicated that well over 98% of the data entry was by double click > popup calendar. Granted these were very 'unsophisticated' users but the > majority of their daily tasks involved interaction with the application. > > I do not believe that providing a pop up calendar is incorrect especially as > > the users can tab into a date field and use a keyboard in any event. IIRC, > I had changed the display format and input mask dynamically in the past so > that a user could key in 'mm/dd/yy' but the display format whenever the > control didn't have focus was 'mmm/dd/yyyy'. I also added a label > displaying the input format at each date entry textbox so there was never a > question as to the required input sequence. > > I also believe that one of the reasons that my users like my pop up calendar > > is because it also displays appointments and blocked off dates for that user > > and other office staff (selected in multiselect list). It can be popped by > keyboard or by doubleclick and can be navigated by mouse or cursor or page > keys (for months) and you can tab into a year textbox. The months are each > on a tab wtih Alt-character navigation and cursoring down past the end of > one month moves to the next month (and up to previous). Finally, the Enter > keys accepts the date, sets the source textbox and dismisses the calendar > and the Escape key dismisses the calendar without setting or changing a > date. > > I am a firm believer in always providing a keyboard navigation method, but > that never precludes adding a mouse alternative that does exactly the same > thing. A pop up calendar can be entirely keyboard controlled at a cost of a > > few extra keystrokes for the rich graphical information that it can present. > > And just because it's there doesn't mean a user ever has to use it. It > just turns out that my experience is that they will even though I have a > prejudice for preferring to use the keyboard wherever possible. I suspect > this prejudice afflicts most programmers. > > If only browers were more keyboard friendly. > > > Ciao > J?rgen Welz > Edmonton, Alberta > jwelz at hotmail.com > > > > > > >From: Brett Barabash > > > >I bet the data entry people love you! > > > >It may "work for you", but I'll bet that there are some users out there > >that > >feel otherwise. One of my biggest UI pet peeves is fields that disallow > >keyboard entry. One record or 1000 records, it's still annoying to move > >your hand off of the home row of your keyboard and click around to select a > >date. > > > > > >-----Original Message----- > >From: Heenan, Lambert [mailto:Lambert.Heenan at aig.com] > >Sent: Wednesday, March 17, 2004 8:22 AM > >To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' > >Subject: RE: [AccessD] Short Date Input Mask question > > > > > >My solution to date entry is simple - I never let user's type in a date. > >They always pick the date from a simple calendar form (though I don't use > >the MS Calendar control). Click on a date field and up pops the date > >picker. > >While this would not be suitable, perhaps, in applications where massive > >numbers of dates need to be entered, I find it works just fine for me. > > > >Lambert > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > From: Arthur Fuller [SMTP:artful at rogers.com] > > > Sent: Tuesday, March 16, 2004 5:47 PM > > > To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' > > > Subject: [AccessD] Short Date Input Mask question > > > > > > The standard short date input mask (99/99/0000;0;_) has a shortcoming > > > that I hate: you have to type 04/04/04 to get April 4th 2004. The year > > > handling is nice but the month and day suck. The mask won't let you type > > > 4/4/04. Is there an alternative mask that will respond intelligently to > > > such input? Or should I instead just remove all the input masks from all > > > the date fields? > > > > > > TIA, > > > Arthur > > _________________________________________________________________ > > -------------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------------------ > The information in this email may contain confidential information that > is legally privileged. The information is only for the use of the intended > recipient(s) named above. If you are not the intended recipient(s), you > are hereby notified that any disclosure, copying, distribution, or the taking > of any action in regard to the content of this fax is strictly prohibited. If > transmission is incorrect, unclear, or incomplete, please notify the sender > immediately. The authorized recipient(s) of this information is/are prohibited > from disclosing this information to any other party and is/are required to > destroy the information after its stated need has been fulfilled. > > Any views expressed in this message are those of the individual > sender, except where the sender specifies and with authority, > states them to be the views of Tappe Construction Co. > > This footer also confirms that this email message has been scanned > for the presence of computer viruses.Scanning of this message and > addition of this footer is performed by SurfControl E-mail Filter software > in conjunction with virus detection software. > > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From KIsmert at TexasSystems.com Thu Mar 18 11:33:27 2004 From: KIsmert at TexasSystems.com (Ken Ismert) Date: Thu, 18 Mar 2004 11:33:27 -0600 Subject: [AccessD] Re: [Private] Framework Discussion - Dependent Objects In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <011201c40d0f$1fb76640$2a3ca8c0@TEXASSYSTEMS.COM> John, Sorry for the delay in responding ... I was out sick. >Would you work with me offline to define this framework interface class and >show me how to Implement that in all of my framework classes? When it comes >to defining interfaces I will take all the help I can get. Yes, let's do some work together. Email me offline. -Ken From DWUTKA at marlow.com Thu Mar 18 11:33:22 2004 From: DWUTKA at marlow.com (DWUTKA at marlow.com) Date: Thu, 18 Mar 2004 11:33:22 -0600 Subject: [AccessD] Terminal Server and Access XP Message-ID: <2F8793082E00D4119A1700B0D0216BF80222798C@main2.marlow.com> Aha. If you gave them Admin rights, and still didn't work, I think you just found the problem. It sounds like Office/Access was installed for all users. It's been a LONG time since I have had to mess with Terminal Server, but it sounds like you installed it as the Admin, which means there are files that are available only too the Admin user. The TS help files should give a good step by step of how to install a software package for all users to use. Drew -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Lonnie Johnson Sent: Thursday, March 18, 2004 8:25 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] Terminal Server and Access XP We gave them power user rights, still couldn't run the code. We gave them administrator rights, still couldn't run the code. Our guts are hurting now. DWUTKA at marlow.com wrote: If it works logged in as an Admin, then it's a permissions issue. Are the logged in users 'power users'? Drew -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Lonnie Johnson Sent: Tuesday, March 16, 2004 7:04 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] Terminal Server and Access XP Nope. I was kinda hoping there was. It works if we log onto the terminal server as administrator, but not as a regular user. Would this be at the registry level? DWUTKA at marlow.com wrote:Any missing references? Drew -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Lonnie Johnson Sent: Monday, March 15, 2004 3:56 PM To: 'MS-ACCESS-L at lists.missouri.edu'; AccessDevelopers; ms_access; AccessD solving' Subject: [AccessD] Terminal Server and Access XP Users are getting a "Run-Time error 13, type mis match" when the application tries to cycle through some controls with the following: Dim ctl as Control For Each ctl in Me.Controls... This works fine in A97 and XP on regular machines. It even works for the administrator on a terminal server machine, but not regular users on terminal server. Anyone have a clue????????? Lonnie Johnson ProDev, Professional Development of MS Access Databases Visit me at ==> http://www.prodev.us Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Mail - More reliable, more storage, less spam -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com Lonnie Johnson ProDev, Professional Development of MS Access Databases Visit me at ==> http://www.prodev.us Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Mail - More reliable, more storage, less spam -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com Lonnie Johnson ProDev, Professional Development of MS Access Databases Visit me at ==> http://www.prodev.us Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Mail - More reliable, more storage, less spam -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From HollisVJ at pgdp.usec.com Thu Mar 18 11:48:41 2004 From: HollisVJ at pgdp.usec.com (Hollis,Virginia) Date: Thu, 18 Mar 2004 11:48:41 -0600 Subject: [AccessD] Sending Preformatted Emails Message-ID: <618EB4D6DDCDD3119B0A00508B6FD37A0CB0D36F@cntexchange.pgdp.usec.com> Ok, I get several different errors depending on what action I perform first & last. But it is not consistent. If I send an email & try to send it again it will create the second email. If I create the email & do not send, I get "The SendObject action was canceled". If I go to a new record, enter another request, After I canceled the first email from the previous record, I get "The SendObject action was canceled", but sometimes I get "Can't find the field "Form" referred to in your expression". One time, not sure what I did to get this error, "reserved error". Virginia -----Original Message----- From: Gustav Brock [mailto:gustav at cactus.dk] Sent: Thursday, March 18, 2004 11:23 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Sending Preformatted Emails Hi Virginia Try commenting out this: ' On Error Resume Next and watch if something happens. /gustav -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From HollisVJ at pgdp.usec.com Thu Mar 18 11:54:56 2004 From: HollisVJ at pgdp.usec.com (Hollis,Virginia) Date: Thu, 18 Mar 2004 11:54:56 -0600 Subject: [AccessD] Sending Preformatted Emails Message-ID: <618EB4D6DDCDD3119B0A00508B6FD37A0CB0D375@cntexchange.pgdp.usec.com> I seem to get the "Can't find the field "Form" referred to in your expression", if I close the form, re-open, enter the data, & try to send another email. I have to exit completely out of the database to resend an email. This time I entered a request, sent the email, tried resending several times - that worked. Went to a new record, entered data, but when I tried to send the email, I got "Reserved error". Any ideas? Virginia -----Original Message----- From: Hollis,Virginia Sent: Thursday, March 18, 2004 11:49 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: [AccessD] Sending Preformatted Emails Ok, I get several different errors depending on what action I perform first & last. But it is not consistent. If I send an email & try to send it again it will create the second email. If I create the email & do not send, I get "The SendObject action was canceled". If I go to a new record, enter another request, After I canceled the first email from the previous record, I get "The SendObject action was canceled", but sometimes I get "Can't find the field "Form" referred to in your expression". One time, not sure what I did to get this error, "reserved error". Virginia -----Original Message----- From: Gustav Brock [mailto:gustav at cactus.dk] Sent: Thursday, March 18, 2004 11:23 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Sending Preformatted Emails Hi Virginia Try commenting out this: ' On Error Resume Next and watch if something happens. /gustav -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From HollisVJ at pgdp.usec.com Thu Mar 18 12:02:51 2004 From: HollisVJ at pgdp.usec.com (Hollis,Virginia) Date: Thu, 18 Mar 2004 12:02:51 -0600 Subject: [AccessD] RE: Hyperlink Field Message-ID: <618EB4D6DDCDD3119B0A00508B6FD37A0CB0D376@cntexchange.pgdp.usec.com> Now the million dollar question - what if the users have changed their properties to Start of Field? -----Original Message----- From: Bryan Carbonnell [mailto:Bryan_Carbonnell at cbc.ca] Sent: Thursday, March 18, 2004 9:17 AM To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: RE: [AccessD] RE: Hyperlink Field Glad that was it. Bryan Carbonnell bryan_carbonnell at cbc.ca >>> HollisVJ at pgdp.usec.com 18-Mar-04 10:13:54 AM >>> Give the man a beer!! He did it. Virginia -----Original Message----- From: Bryan Carbonnell [mailto:Bryan_Carbonnell at cbc.ca] Sent: Thursday, March 18, 2004 8:54 AM To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: RE: [AccessD] RE: Hyperlink Field Virginia, Under Tools|Options|Keyboard tab What is selected in the Behaviour entereing field frame? I would bet that it is NOT Select Entire field. Switch it to Select Entire Field, and try that. I think that might "fix" the problem. -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From Bryan_Carbonnell at cbc.ca Thu Mar 18 12:31:37 2004 From: Bryan_Carbonnell at cbc.ca (Bryan Carbonnell) Date: Thu, 18 Mar 2004 13:31:37 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] RE: Hyperlink Field Message-ID: Beat them into submission?? OK, since that would be too welcome :) how about in your statup code: Application.GetOption("Behavior Entering Field") = 0 and in your shut down code Application.GetOption("Behavior Entering Field") = _ What_Ever_The_Users_Original_Value_Was_That_You_Remebered_To_Stored_Right_? Bryan Carbonnell bryan_carbonnell at cbc.ca >>> HollisVJ at pgdp.usec.com 18-Mar-04 1:02:51 PM >>> Now the million dollar question - what if the users have changed their properties to Start of Field? -----Original Message----- From: Bryan Carbonnell [mailto:Bryan_Carbonnell at cbc.ca] Sent: Thursday, March 18, 2004 9:17 AM To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: RE: [AccessD] RE: Hyperlink Field Glad that was it. Bryan Carbonnell bryan_carbonnell at cbc.ca >>> HollisVJ at pgdp.usec.com 18-Mar-04 10:13:54 AM >>> Give the man a beer!! He did it. Virginia -----Original Message----- From: Bryan Carbonnell [mailto:Bryan_Carbonnell at cbc.ca] Sent: Thursday, March 18, 2004 8:54 AM To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: RE: [AccessD] RE: Hyperlink Field Virginia, Under Tools|Options|Keyboard tab What is selected in the Behaviour entereing field frame? I would bet that it is NOT Select Entire field. Switch it to Select Entire Field, and try that. I think that might "fix" the problem. -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From rl_stewart at highstream.net Thu Mar 18 13:21:53 2004 From: rl_stewart at highstream.net (Robert L. Stewart) Date: Thu, 18 Mar 2004 13:21:53 -0600 Subject: [AccessD] Re: Hyperlink Field In-Reply-To: <200403181800.i2II0JM23254@databaseadvisors.com> Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20040318131705.02acd340@pop3.highstream.net> I finally remembered what I used a hyperlink capable label for. I was linking to external images (jpgs) and wanted a "link" to them so I stored the path in the db and set the hyperlink address property in code. So Virginia, I mislead you, but I also know that you have a good answer from one of the other listers. I hate getting old :-() They say memory is the first thing to go. I cannot remember what the second thing was! Robert At 12:00 PM 3/18/2004 -0600, you wrote: >Date: Thu, 18 Mar 2004 11:04:55 -0600 >From: "Robert L. Stewart" >Subject: [AccessD] Re: Re: Hyperlink Field >To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com >Cc: stuart at lexacorp.com.pg >Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20040318110136.02ad3800 at pop3.highstream.net> >Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed > >Stuart, > >Try Hyperlink Address and Hyperlink subaddress >properties for a label. Access 97, 2000, 2002, >2003 > >After looking at what she asked closer, I >think all she needs to do is add a hyperlink >datatype column to her table. > >Robert > >At 08:34 AM 3/18/2004 -0600, you wrote: > >Message: 5 > >Date: Thu, 18 Mar 2004 08:12:52 +1000 > >From: "Stuart McLachlan" > >Subject: Re: [AccessD] Re: Hyperlink Field > >To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > > > >Message-ID: <40595A04.4146.19A0E9 at localhost> > >Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII > > > >On 17 Mar 2004 at 15:53, Robert L. Stewart wrote: > > > > > Virginia, > > > > > > The trick is that a label has the hyperlink > > > property and not a text box. Use a label > > > and set the properties for it in code. > > > > > > > > > >Not in any version of Access I've ever seen. > > > >The "Is hyperlink" property is the last one in the "Format" tab of > >the textbox "Properties" dialog. > From dwaters at usinternet.com Thu Mar 18 13:25:01 2004 From: dwaters at usinternet.com (Dan Waters) Date: Thu, 18 Mar 2004 13:25:01 -0600 Subject: [AccessD] OT Wrist/Arm Pain - was Short Date Input Mask quest ion In-Reply-To: <14139151.1079627698922.JavaMail.root@sniper.marix.com> Message-ID: <000501c40d1e$b5ffd9c0$de1811d8@DanWaters> Gee Charlotte! I LOVE split keyboards! I just keep my elbows resting on the arms of my chair next to my side, my wrists stay straight, and all works fine. It is really interesting to learn how many different specific solutions people have come up with to solve these RSI problems. Dan -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Charlotte Foust Sent: Thursday, March 18, 2004 10:28 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] OT Wrist/Arm Pain - was Short Date Input Mask quest ion I've never had wrist problems from typing, only from reaching out and up to use the mouse. A keyboard shelf with and articlating mouse shelf puts the mouse level with the wrist rest for the keyboard, and I haven't had any problems since. PS/ I *hate* split keyboards and those ergonomic nightmares. I CANNOT type with my elbows stuck out like open doors! Charlotte Foust -----Original Message----- From: Dan Waters [mailto:dwaters at usinternet.com] Sent: Thursday, March 18, 2004 6:34 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: [AccessD] OT Wrist/Arm Pain - was Short Date Input Mask quest ion For me two things have eliminated all wrist pain. First is that I try to use a split keyboard as much as possible. This lets my wrists stay straight while typing. It took me about 2 weeks to get used to it. Second is that I use a very lightweight mouse. I'm currently using a Fellowes Mini Web Pro, which only weighs 2 or 3 ounces. Before doing the two things above, I occasionally had to stop for several hours due to wrist pain, but not any more! Most of my work is typing text/code and creating forms and reports. Dan -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of rusty.hammond at cpiqpc.com Sent: Wednesday, March 17, 2004 1:30 PM To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: RE: [AccessD] OT Wrist/Arm Pain - was Short Date Input Mask quest ion I've switched my mouse to left handed at work as well. What has really helped the most for me is a quick set of wrist excercises I do each morning. Takes about 2 minutes to do. -----Original Message----- From: Porter, Mark [mailto:MPorter at acsalaska.com] Sent: Wednesday, March 17, 2004 1:09 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: [AccessD] Short Date Input Mask question My solution for wrist/arm pain was to learn to use the mouse left-handed. Back when I was working and consulting in the evenings, I would use the left hand at work and right hand in the evenings. Now I just switch off. Nothing but occasional soreness now and again for the last 4 years. Mark > -----Original Message----- > From: Charlotte Foust [mailto:cfoust at infostatsystems.com] > Sent: Wednesday, March 17, 2004 8:38 AM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: RE: [AccessD] Short Date Input Mask question > > > Hah! I got tendonitis in my thumb using a trackball. Had to > go back to > a mouse. That just shows that there is no single right answer. :-} > > Charlotte Foust > > -----Original Message----- > From: William Hindman [mailto:wdhindman at bellsouth.net] > Sent: Wednesday, March 17, 2004 9:25 AM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: Re: [AccessD] Short Date Input Mask question > > > ...shortcut keys/number pad activate each calendar function > ...and I've > got every client converted to trackballs instead of mice ...I used to > have severe CTS using a mouse but since moving to trackballs I've been > symptom free :) > > William Hindman > You know the world is upside down when Bill Clinton wins a Grammy and > Janet Jackson is the subject of a government sex investigation. Argus > Hamilton. > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Heenan, Lambert" > To: "'Access Developers discussion and problem solving'" > > Sent: Wednesday, March 17, 2004 10:52 AM > Subject: RE: [AccessD] Short Date Input Mask question > > > > Bryan, > > > > Point taken. This was why I made the comment about mass > data input. In > point > > of fact it is possible, though a bit clunky, to select a > date with the > > > keyboard, and I should perhaps revisit the design on the > form to make > > it easier to do so. > > > > RSI is a serious problem, and I sympathize with your for having to > > deal > with > > it. However it's not confined to mouse use, indeed I > remember it first > being > > reported back in the 80's before mice very prevalent. In those days > > the blame was laid at the door of the extreme ease with > which computer > keyboards > > operated vs. manual typewriters. This allowed for very rapid > > keystrokes, which was thought to be the root cause of RSI. > > > > I also see people who have bizarre ideas about how they should > > position their keyboards and mice. In short there are lots > of factors > > involved, and at the end of the day the user has to figure out the > > best way to use the d*mned machines. So, to reiterate, I think I'll > > take the time to redesign > my > > date picker form to allow for better keyboard use of it. > > > > Lambert > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > From: Bryan Carbonnell [SMTP:Bryan_Carbonnell at cbc.ca] > > > Sent: Wednesday, March 17, 2004 9:52 AM > > > To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com > > > Subject: RE: [AccessD] Short Date Input Mask question > > > > > > Lambert, > > > > > > It may work fine for you, but does it work for your users? Do you > > > force them to use the mouse to select the date, or can they do > > > everything they need to from the keyboard? > > > > > > The only reason I bring this up is that I have had RSI > from moving > > > between the mouse and keyboard for data entry too much. It got to > > > the point where by 10 AM I could not feel my little > finger and half > > > of my lower arm becaude of it. > > > > > > As soon as I got one application that I used on a regular > basis more > > > > keyboard friendly it helped. > > > > > > Just try to keep that in mind. I know I always do. I let > users use > > > the mouse or enter with the keyboard. Their choice. > > > > > > Bryan Carbonnell > > > bryan_carbonnell at cbc.ca > > > > > > > > > >>> Lambert.Heenan at AIG.com 17-Mar-04 9:21:45 AM >>> > > > My solution to date entry is simple - I never let user's > type in a > > > date. They always pick the date from a simple calendar > form (though > > > I don't use > > > the MS Calendar control). Click on a date field and up > pops the date > > > picker. > > > While this would not be suitable, perhaps, in applications where > > > massive numbers of dates need to be entered, I find it works just > > > fine for > me. > > > > > > Lambert > > > > > > -- > > > _______________________________________________ > > > AccessD mailing list > > > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > > > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > -- > > _______________________________________________ > > AccessD mailing list > > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > ************************************************************************ **** ******* 17/3/2004 This transmittal may contain confidential information intended solely for the addressee. 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ACS -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From HollisVJ at pgdp.usec.com Thu Mar 18 13:42:51 2004 From: HollisVJ at pgdp.usec.com (Hollis,Virginia) Date: Thu, 18 Mar 2004 13:42:51 -0600 Subject: [AccessD] RE: Hyperlink Field Message-ID: <618EB4D6DDCDD3119B0A00508B6FD37A0CB0D378@cntexchange.pgdp.usec.com> I get the error: RunTime error 424, Object Required. on Application.GetOption("Behavior Entering Field") = 0 Is there a list of all the properties you can set at StartUp? I have searched Unhelp several times but can never find anything. Virginia -----Original Message----- From: Bryan Carbonnell [mailto:Bryan_Carbonnell at cbc.ca] Sent: Thursday, March 18, 2004 12:32 PM To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: RE: [AccessD] RE: Hyperlink Field Beat them into submission?? OK, since that would be too welcome :) how about in your statup code: Application.GetOption("Behavior Entering Field") = 0 and in your shut down code Application.GetOption("Behavior Entering Field") = _ What_Ever_The_Users_Original_Value_Was_That_You_Remebered_To_Stored_Right_? Bryan Carbonnell bryan_carbonnell at cbc.ca >>> HollisVJ at pgdp.usec.com 18-Mar-04 1:02:51 PM >>> Now the million dollar question - what if the users have changed their properties to Start of Field? -----Original Message----- From: Bryan Carbonnell [mailto:Bryan_Carbonnell at cbc.ca] Sent: Thursday, March 18, 2004 9:17 AM To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: RE: [AccessD] RE: Hyperlink Field Glad that was it. Bryan Carbonnell bryan_carbonnell at cbc.ca >>> HollisVJ at pgdp.usec.com 18-Mar-04 10:13:54 AM >>> Give the man a beer!! He did it. Virginia -----Original Message----- From: Bryan Carbonnell [mailto:Bryan_Carbonnell at cbc.ca] Sent: Thursday, March 18, 2004 8:54 AM To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: RE: [AccessD] RE: Hyperlink Field Virginia, Under Tools|Options|Keyboard tab What is selected in the Behaviour entereing field frame? I would bet that it is NOT Select Entire field. Switch it to Select Entire Field, and try that. I think that might "fix" the problem. -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From Bryan_Carbonnell at cbc.ca Thu Mar 18 14:10:28 2004 From: Bryan_Carbonnell at cbc.ca (Bryan Carbonnell) Date: Thu, 18 Mar 2004 15:10:28 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Cascading Combos Message-ID: I'm stuck and need some help. I think I've been thinking and working on this problem too long. I can't see what I'm missing. I have 3 tables: tblIncident ----------- IncidentID (AutoNum PK) IncidentReasonID_FK (Long) .... tblReason ---------- ReasonID (AutoNum PK) ReasonDescription (Text) ReasonTypeID_FK (Long) ReasonDiscontinued (Boolean) tblReasonType --------------- ReasonTypeID (AutoNum PK) ReasonTypeDescription (Text) ReasonTypeDiscontinued (Boolean) tblIncident is a 1-M with tblReason on ReasonID_FK=ReasonID tblReason is a M-1 with tblReasonType one ReasonTypeID_FK=ReasonTypeID What I am trying to do is create cascading combos on an edit only form. No additions or deletions. Just editing The form is based on a query that pulls the data from tblIncident cboReasonType is the ReasonType and is not bound bboReason is Limited to only those Reasons that have a ReasonTypeID_FK = cboReasonType and is bound to IncidentReasonID_FK So Far So good. Now I have cboReasonType's rowsource to be a query that includes all of the ReasonTypes (SELECT ReasonTypeID, ReasonTypeDescription, ReasonTypeDiscontinued FROM tblReasonType;) cboReason's rowsource is a query with the SQL "SELECT ReasonID, ReasonType_FK, ReasonDescription, ReasonDiscontinued FROM tblReason;" In the Current Event of the forms I have: 'Set the Reason Type cboReasonType = cboReason.Column(1) So as I navigate to the various records, I get the value of the RecordType Combo correct. Now, as soon as I try to change the rowsource of cboReason to filter based on cboReasonType ("SELECT ReasonID, ReasonType_FK, ReasonDescription, ReasonDiscontinued FROM tblReason WHERE (tblReason.ReasonType_FK=[Forms]![sfmEditIncidentDetails]![cboReasonType]);") I end up with blanks in both cboReason and cboReasonType. What am I missing? Is it that cboReason's RowSource is dependant on cboReasonType's value, which is in turn based on cboReason's value? If that is the problem, and now that I have typed this all out, I think it is, how the heck do I make it do what I want?? Thanks, Bryan Carbonnell bryan_carbonnell at cbc.ca From Bryan_Carbonnell at cbc.ca Thu Mar 18 14:15:14 2004 From: Bryan_Carbonnell at cbc.ca (Bryan Carbonnell) Date: Thu, 18 Mar 2004 15:15:14 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] RE: Hyperlink Field Message-ID: OOPS!!! To set the value Application.SetOption "Behavior Entering Field", 0 To get the value; SomeVariable = Application.GetOption("Behavior Entering Field") If there is a list, I have NO idea where it was. This was just a guess of the name based on something I stumbled on in the UnHelp file. But I did test it slightly to make sure it was the right guess :) Bryan Carbonnell bryan_carbonnell at cbc.ca >>> HollisVJ at pgdp.usec.com 18-Mar-04 2:42:51 PM >>> I get the error: RunTime error 424, Object Required. on Application.GetOption("Behavior Entering Field") = 0 Is there a list of all the properties you can set at StartUp? I have searched Unhelp several times but can never find anything. Virginia -----Original Message----- From: Bryan Carbonnell [mailto:Bryan_Carbonnell at cbc.ca] Sent: Thursday, March 18, 2004 12:32 PM To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: RE: [AccessD] RE: Hyperlink Field Beat them into submission?? OK, since that would be too welcome :) how about in your statup code: Application.GetOption("Behavior Entering Field") = 0 and in your shut down code Application.GetOption("Behavior Entering Field") = _ What_Ever_The_Users_Original_Value_Was_That_You_Remebered_To_Stored_Right_? Bryan Carbonnell bryan_carbonnell at cbc.ca >>> HollisVJ at pgdp.usec.com 18-Mar-04 1:02:51 PM >>> Now the million dollar question - what if the users have changed their properties to Start of Field? -----Original Message----- From: Bryan Carbonnell [mailto:Bryan_Carbonnell at cbc.ca] Sent: Thursday, March 18, 2004 9:17 AM To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: RE: [AccessD] RE: Hyperlink Field Glad that was it. Bryan Carbonnell bryan_carbonnell at cbc.ca >>> HollisVJ at pgdp.usec.com 18-Mar-04 10:13:54 AM >>> Give the man a beer!! He did it. Virginia -----Original Message----- From: Bryan Carbonnell [mailto:Bryan_Carbonnell at cbc.ca] Sent: Thursday, March 18, 2004 8:54 AM To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: RE: [AccessD] RE: Hyperlink Field Virginia, Under Tools|Options|Keyboard tab What is selected in the Behaviour entereing field frame? I would bet that it is NOT Select Entire field. Switch it to Select Entire Field, and try that. I think that might "fix" the problem. -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From thevigil at kabelfoon.nl Thu Mar 18 14:14:20 2004 From: thevigil at kabelfoon.nl (Bert-Jan Brinkhuis) Date: Thu, 18 Mar 2004 21:14:20 +0100 Subject: [AccessD] Strange results with simple calculation on a form References: <000f01c40c73$f596f560$214e2d3e@jester> <1048451652.20040318111843@cactus.dk> Message-ID: <007901c40d25$bb0478c0$1a4e2d3e@jester> Gustav, thanks for your answer. I keep forgetting textboxes only contain text... i think i will forget it this time again... ;-) The maximum is 2 decimals so that is no problem. But since the differences was at the 15th decimal (although i only tested this 1 time...) I decide to add round([calculation];2) in the total field. I think this is ok because i know only numers with 2 decimals are entered.... Bert-Jan ----- Original Message ----- From: "Gustav Brock" To: "Access Developers discussion and problem solving" Sent: Thursday, March 18, 2004 11:18 AM Subject: Re: [AccessD] Strange results with simple calculation on a form > Hi Bert-Jan > > Welcome back. > > Unbound textboxes contain text no matter how you format them. > And decimals may not be exact Doubles and indeed not Singles. > > If you can accept a maximum of four decimals, use CCur(txtYourTextbox) > to convert to Currency before doing any calculation or comparison. > Else use CDbl() and compare to a max. tolerance of your choice: > > If Abs(dblTotal - dblAmount) < 1E-7 Then > ' Values are equal. > End If > > /gustav > > > > Hi all, > > > i was forced to unsubscribe a while ago because i couldn't keep up with you > > and all the messages... ;-) > > > But today a strange thing happened i had to ask you all about. I didn't do a > > big search on the internet, but searched the accessd archives and didn't > > find it. It maybe is a well known problem, but here it goes..... > > > I have an unbound form where users will type amounts. All the txtboxes' > > format are set to "standard" and the decimal places is set to 2. And i check > > on the before_update event of these txtboxes if there are more then 2 > > decimals, if so, cancel = true. There is an calculated total control > > (txtTotal) wich has a controlsource like =[txtbox1]+[txtbox2] and so on (in > > total 12 txtboxes) > > These txtboxes are used to 'split up' the amount in another txtbox. > > (txtAmount) > > > Before saving i check if txtAmount = txtTotal. When no decimals are used > > there is no problem, if there are only used decimals in 1 txtbox there is no > > problem. But if there are used decimals in more txtboxes access will tell me > > the values are not the same..... although the same values are shown... it > > turns out there is a difference of: 0.00000000000000710542735!!!!!! > > (debug.print told me this!) > > > When i use the same 'function' in VBA it works fine with the same > > values....???? > > > So it is not a real problem, but it IS something strange... wel to me it > > is.... > > > Thanks in advance. > > > Hope to keep up with you this time... ;-) > > > Bert-Jan > > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From thevigil at kabelfoon.nl Thu Mar 18 14:18:47 2004 From: thevigil at kabelfoon.nl (Bert-Jan Brinkhuis) Date: Thu, 18 Mar 2004 21:18:47 +0100 Subject: [AccessD] excell's split box in access form SOLVED (i hope) References: <001501c40c74$f30be840$214e2d3e@jester> Message-ID: <008001c40d26$3ec913a0$1a4e2d3e@jester> Hi, i was playing with this idea for some time today and decided to use an activeX control for the first time! ;-) I placed an activeX horizontal scrollbar on my form. On some event of the scrollbar (by head i do not remember the event, but that is not important.) On that event i change the rowsources of textboxes acording to what they have to move, with the scrollbar.value i know at which point the scrollbar is, so values move from left to right or the other way depending on which way i move the scrollbar. So far it works. But i hope the performance will stay ok if i add the textboxes i need to add. Especially when they invlove calculations and table access through DAO. Bert-Jan ----- Original Message ----- From: "Bert-Jan Brinkhuis" To: Sent: Thursday, March 18, 2004 12:09 AM Subject: [AccessD] excell's split box in access form > Hi, > > does anyone know how to make an excell like vertical split box in access? > > Bert-Jan > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From Bryan_Carbonnell at cbc.ca Thu Mar 18 14:26:18 2004 From: Bryan_Carbonnell at cbc.ca (Bryan Carbonnell) Date: Thu, 18 Mar 2004 15:26:18 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] RE: Hyperlink Field Message-ID: Man this is just NOT my day!!! > If there is a list, I have NO idea where it was. I went looking for something else in the UnHelpful file and guess what I found. In the Answer Wizard type: Set Options from Visual Basic The list is the second topic listed. Bryan Carbonnell bryan_carbonnell at cbc.ca >>> Bryan_Carbonnell at cbc.ca 18-Mar-04 3:15:14 PM >>> OOPS!!! To set the value Application.SetOption "Behavior Entering Field", 0 To get the value; SomeVariable = Application.GetOption("Behavior Entering Field") If there is a list, I have NO idea where it was. This was just a guess of the name based on something I stumbled on in the UnHelp file. But I did test it slightly to make sure it was the right guess :) Bryan Carbonnell bryan_carbonnell at cbc.ca >>> HollisVJ at pgdp.usec.com 18-Mar-04 2:42:51 PM >>> I get the error: RunTime error 424, Object Required. on Application.GetOption("Behavior Entering Field") = 0 Is there a list of all the properties you can set at StartUp? I have searched Unhelp several times but can never find anything. From my.lists at verizon.net Thu Mar 18 14:44:51 2004 From: my.lists at verizon.net (Francisco H Tapia) Date: Thu, 18 Mar 2004 12:44:51 -0800 Subject: [AccessD] OT Wrist/Arm Pain - was Short Date Input Mask quest ion In-Reply-To: <000501c40d1e$b5ffd9c0$de1811d8@DanWaters> References: <000501c40d1e$b5ffd9c0$de1811d8@DanWaters> Message-ID: <405A0A43.4030007@verizon.net> I found that rather interesting as well, for me I do the obligatory stretch at the beginning of the day and at break time. I found the most successful device to reduce the pain was a trackball mouse, so much that I bought one for home... the idea is that you MUST place it in a very comfortable location on your desk/keyboard shelf... At my job sometimes i get a chance to work from home, I end up VNCing (telecommuting to work.) but getting a chance to work on an ergonomic desk/keyboard/mouse is a very nice benny :) -- -Francisco Dan Waters wrote: >Gee Charlotte! I LOVE split keyboards! I just keep my elbows resting on >the arms of my chair next to my side, my wrists stay straight, and all works >fine. > >It is really interesting to learn how many different specific solutions >people have come up with to solve these RSI problems. > >Dan > >-----Original Message----- >From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com >[mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Charlotte Foust >Sent: Thursday, March 18, 2004 10:28 AM >To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving >Subject: RE: [AccessD] OT Wrist/Arm Pain - was Short Date Input Mask quest >ion > >I've never had wrist problems from typing, only from reaching out and up >to use the mouse. A keyboard shelf with and articlating mouse shelf >puts the mouse level with the wrist rest for the keyboard, and I haven't >had any problems since. > >PS/ I *hate* split keyboards and those ergonomic nightmares. I CANNOT >type with my elbows stuck out like open doors! > >Charlotte Foust > >-----Original Message----- >From: Dan Waters [mailto:dwaters at usinternet.com] >Sent: Thursday, March 18, 2004 6:34 AM >To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' >Subject: RE: [AccessD] OT Wrist/Arm Pain - was Short Date Input Mask >quest ion > > >For me two things have eliminated all wrist pain. > >First is that I try to use a split keyboard as much as possible. This >lets my wrists stay straight while typing. It took me about 2 weeks to >get used to it. > >Second is that I use a very lightweight mouse. I'm currently using a >Fellowes Mini Web Pro, which only weighs 2 or 3 ounces. > >Before doing the two things above, I occasionally had to stop for >several hours due to wrist pain, but not any more! > >Most of my work is typing text/code and creating forms and reports. > >Dan > > >-----Original Message----- >From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com >[mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of >rusty.hammond at cpiqpc.com >Sent: Wednesday, March 17, 2004 1:30 PM >To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com >Subject: RE: [AccessD] OT Wrist/Arm Pain - was Short Date Input Mask >quest ion > >I've switched my mouse to left handed at work as well. What has really >helped the most for me is a quick set of wrist excercises I do each >morning. Takes about 2 minutes to do. > >-----Original Message----- >From: Porter, Mark [mailto:MPorter at acsalaska.com] >Sent: Wednesday, March 17, 2004 1:09 PM >To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' >Subject: RE: [AccessD] Short Date Input Mask question > > >My solution for wrist/arm pain was to learn to use the mouse >left-handed. Back when I was working and consulting in the evenings, I >would use the left hand at work and right hand in the evenings. > >Now I just switch off. Nothing but occasional soreness now and again >for the last 4 years. > >Mark > > > >>-----Original Message----- >>From: Charlotte Foust [mailto:cfoust at infostatsystems.com] >>Sent: Wednesday, March 17, 2004 8:38 AM >>To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving >>Subject: RE: [AccessD] Short Date Input Mask question >> >> >>Hah! I got tendonitis in my thumb using a trackball. Had to >>go back to >>a mouse. That just shows that there is no single right answer. :-} >> >>Charlotte Foust >> >>-----Original Message----- >>From: William Hindman [mailto:wdhindman at bellsouth.net] >>Sent: Wednesday, March 17, 2004 9:25 AM >>To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving >>Subject: Re: [AccessD] Short Date Input Mask question >> >> >>...shortcut keys/number pad activate each calendar function >>...and I've >>got every client converted to trackballs instead of mice ...I used to >>have severe CTS using a mouse but since moving to trackballs I've been >>symptom free :) >> >>William Hindman >>You know the world is upside down when Bill Clinton wins a Grammy and >>Janet Jackson is the subject of a government sex investigation. Argus >>Hamilton. >> >> >>----- Original Message ----- >>From: "Heenan, Lambert" >>To: "'Access Developers discussion and problem solving'" >> >>Sent: Wednesday, March 17, 2004 10:52 AM >>Subject: RE: [AccessD] Short Date Input Mask question >> >> >> >> >>>Bryan, >>> >>>Point taken. This was why I made the comment about mass >>> >>> >>data input. In >>point >> >> >>>of fact it is possible, though a bit clunky, to select a >>> >>> >>date with the >> >> >> >>>keyboard, and I should perhaps revisit the design on the >>> >>> >>form to make >> >> >>>it easier to do so. >>> >>>RSI is a serious problem, and I sympathize with your for having to >>>deal >>> >>> >>with >> >> >>>it. However it's not confined to mouse use, indeed I >>> >>> >>remember it first >>being >> >> >>>reported back in the 80's before mice very prevalent. In those days >>>the blame was laid at the door of the extreme ease with >>> >>> >>which computer >>keyboards >> >> >>>operated vs. manual typewriters. This allowed for very rapid >>>keystrokes, which was thought to be the root cause of RSI. >>> >>>I also see people who have bizarre ideas about how they should >>>position their keyboards and mice. In short there are lots >>> >>> >>of factors >> >> >>>involved, and at the end of the day the user has to figure out the >>>best way to use the d*mned machines. So, to reiterate, I think I'll >>>take the time to redesign >>> >>> >>my >> >> >>>date picker form to allow for better keyboard use of it. >>> >>>Lambert >>> >>> >>> >>>>-----Original Message----- >>>>From: Bryan Carbonnell [SMTP:Bryan_Carbonnell at cbc.ca] >>>>Sent: Wednesday, March 17, 2004 9:52 AM >>>>To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com >>>>Subject: RE: [AccessD] Short Date Input Mask question >>>> >>>>Lambert, >>>> >>>>It may work fine for you, but does it work for your users? Do you >>>>force them to use the mouse to select the date, or can they do >>>>everything they need to from the keyboard? >>>> >>>>The only reason I bring this up is that I have had RSI >>>> >>>> >>from moving >> >> >>>>between the mouse and keyboard for data entry too much. It got to >>>>the point where by 10 AM I could not feel my little >>>> >>>> >>finger and half >> >> >>>>of my lower arm becaude of it. >>>> >>>>As soon as I got one application that I used on a regular >>>> >>>> >>basis more >> >> >> >>>>keyboard friendly it helped. >>>> >>>>Just try to keep that in mind. I know I always do. I let >>>> >>>> >>users use >> >> >>>>the mouse or enter with the keyboard. Their choice. >>>> >>>>Bryan Carbonnell >>>>bryan_carbonnell at cbc.ca >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>>>>>Lambert.Heenan at AIG.com 17-Mar-04 9:21:45 AM >>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>My solution to date entry is simple - I never let user's >>>> >>>> >>type in a >> >> >>>>date. They always pick the date from a simple calendar >>>> >>>> >>form (though >> >> >>>>I don't use >>>>the MS Calendar control). Click on a date field and up >>>> >>>> >>pops the date >> >> >>>>picker. >>>>While this would not be suitable, perhaps, in applications where >>>>massive numbers of dates need to be entered, I find it works just >>>>fine for >>>> >>>> >>me. >> >> >>>>Lambert >>>> >>>> >>>> From davesharpe2 at cox.net Thu Mar 18 14:45:44 2004 From: davesharpe2 at cox.net (Dave Sharpe) Date: Thu, 18 Mar 2004 15:45:44 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] zip/unzip References: Message-ID: <005201c40d29$fc1cc2a0$dd2f0a44@bcsext6137> John Have You been to http://www.vbaccelerator.com/home/VB/Code/Libraries/Compression/Unzipping_Files/article.asp ? It looks like the files are available there. Dave ----- Original Message ----- From: "John W. Colby" To: "AccessD" Sent: Thursday, March 18, 2004 10:35 AM Subject: [AccessD] zip/unzip I have always used the zip / unzip classes from Steve McMahon: ' Name: vbAccelerator cUnzip class ' Author: Steve McMahon (steve at vbaccelerator.com) ' Date: 1 January 2000 ' ' Requires: Info-ZIP's Zip32.DLL v2.32, renamed to vbzip10.dll ' mZip.bas ' which requires vbzip10.dll which I have managed to lose. I downloaded the zipped dlls but neither one will register on two computers at my office. Does anyone have these files you could email to me? Thanks, John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com Thu Mar 18 14:49:01 2004 From: jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com (John W. Colby) Date: Thu, 18 Mar 2004 15:49:01 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] zip/unzip In-Reply-To: Message-ID: yes, the zip and unzip dlls. Thanks. John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of John Bartow Sent: Thursday, March 18, 2004 11:05 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] zip/unzip Hi John, Do you just need the vbzip10.dll file? I can send it offline. John B. -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of John W. Colby Sent: Thursday, March 18, 2004 9:35 AM To: AccessD Subject: [AccessD] zip/unzip I have always used the zip / unzip classes from Steve McMahon: ' Name: vbAccelerator cUnzip class ' Author: Steve McMahon (steve at vbaccelerator.com) ' Date: 1 January 2000 ' ' Requires: Info-ZIP's Zip32.DLL v2.32, renamed to vbzip10.dll ' mZip.bas ' which requires vbzip10.dll which I have managed to lose. I downloaded the zipped dlls but neither one will register on two computers at my office. Does anyone have these files you could email to me? Thanks, John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From cfoust at infostatsystems.com Thu Mar 18 15:04:01 2004 From: cfoust at infostatsystems.com (Charlotte Foust) Date: Thu, 18 Mar 2004 13:04:01 -0800 Subject: [AccessD] OT Wrist/Arm Pain - was Short Date Input Mask quest ion Message-ID: I keep my elbows at my side and my wrists straight on a standard keyboard. All I need is a wrist support. I hate the elbows on the arm of the chair position for typing. DSFDF :-} Charlotte Foust -----Original Message----- From: Dan Waters [mailto:dwaters at usinternet.com] Sent: Thursday, March 18, 2004 11:25 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: [AccessD] OT Wrist/Arm Pain - was Short Date Input Mask quest ion Gee Charlotte! I LOVE split keyboards! I just keep my elbows resting on the arms of my chair next to my side, my wrists stay straight, and all works fine. It is really interesting to learn how many different specific solutions people have come up with to solve these RSI problems. Dan -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Charlotte Foust Sent: Thursday, March 18, 2004 10:28 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] OT Wrist/Arm Pain - was Short Date Input Mask quest ion I've never had wrist problems from typing, only from reaching out and up to use the mouse. A keyboard shelf with and articlating mouse shelf puts the mouse level with the wrist rest for the keyboard, and I haven't had any problems since. PS/ I *hate* split keyboards and those ergonomic nightmares. I CANNOT type with my elbows stuck out like open doors! Charlotte Foust -----Original Message----- From: Dan Waters [mailto:dwaters at usinternet.com] Sent: Thursday, March 18, 2004 6:34 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: [AccessD] OT Wrist/Arm Pain - was Short Date Input Mask quest ion For me two things have eliminated all wrist pain. First is that I try to use a split keyboard as much as possible. This lets my wrists stay straight while typing. It took me about 2 weeks to get used to it. Second is that I use a very lightweight mouse. I'm currently using a Fellowes Mini Web Pro, which only weighs 2 or 3 ounces. Before doing the two things above, I occasionally had to stop for several hours due to wrist pain, but not any more! Most of my work is typing text/code and creating forms and reports. Dan -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of rusty.hammond at cpiqpc.com Sent: Wednesday, March 17, 2004 1:30 PM To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: RE: [AccessD] OT Wrist/Arm Pain - was Short Date Input Mask quest ion I've switched my mouse to left handed at work as well. What has really helped the most for me is a quick set of wrist excercises I do each morning. Takes about 2 minutes to do. -----Original Message----- From: Porter, Mark [mailto:MPorter at acsalaska.com] Sent: Wednesday, March 17, 2004 1:09 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: [AccessD] Short Date Input Mask question My solution for wrist/arm pain was to learn to use the mouse left-handed. Back when I was working and consulting in the evenings, I would use the left hand at work and right hand in the evenings. Now I just switch off. Nothing but occasional soreness now and again for the last 4 years. Mark > -----Original Message----- > From: Charlotte Foust [mailto:cfoust at infostatsystems.com] > Sent: Wednesday, March 17, 2004 8:38 AM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: RE: [AccessD] Short Date Input Mask question > > > Hah! I got tendonitis in my thumb using a trackball. Had to go back > to a mouse. That just shows that there is no single right answer. :-} > > Charlotte Foust > > -----Original Message----- > From: William Hindman [mailto:wdhindman at bellsouth.net] > Sent: Wednesday, March 17, 2004 9:25 AM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: Re: [AccessD] Short Date Input Mask question > > > ...shortcut keys/number pad activate each calendar function ...and > I've got every client converted to trackballs instead of mice ...I > used to have severe CTS using a mouse but since moving to trackballs > I've been symptom free :) > > William Hindman > You know the world is upside down when Bill Clinton wins a Grammy and > Janet Jackson is the subject of a government sex investigation. Argus > Hamilton. > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Heenan, Lambert" > To: "'Access Developers discussion and problem solving'" > > Sent: Wednesday, March 17, 2004 10:52 AM > Subject: RE: [AccessD] Short Date Input Mask question > > > > Bryan, > > > > Point taken. This was why I made the comment about mass > data input. In > point > > of fact it is possible, though a bit clunky, to select a > date with the > > > keyboard, and I should perhaps revisit the design on the > form to make > > it easier to do so. > > > > RSI is a serious problem, and I sympathize with your for having to > > deal > with > > it. However it's not confined to mouse use, indeed I > remember it first > being > > reported back in the 80's before mice very prevalent. In those days > > the blame was laid at the door of the extreme ease with > which computer > keyboards > > operated vs. manual typewriters. This allowed for very rapid > > keystrokes, which was thought to be the root cause of RSI. > > > > I also see people who have bizarre ideas about how they should > > position their keyboards and mice. In short there are lots > of factors > > involved, and at the end of the day the user has to figure out the > > best way to use the d*mned machines. So, to reiterate, I think I'll > > take the time to redesign > my > > date picker form to allow for better keyboard use of it. > > > > Lambert > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > From: Bryan Carbonnell [SMTP:Bryan_Carbonnell at cbc.ca] > > > Sent: Wednesday, March 17, 2004 9:52 AM > > > To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com > > > Subject: RE: [AccessD] Short Date Input Mask question > > > > > > Lambert, > > > > > > It may work fine for you, but does it work for your users? Do you > > > force them to use the mouse to select the date, or can they do > > > everything they need to from the keyboard? > > > > > > The only reason I bring this up is that I have had RSI > from moving > > > between the mouse and keyboard for data entry too much. It got to > > > the point where by 10 AM I could not feel my little > finger and half > > > of my lower arm becaude of it. > > > > > > As soon as I got one application that I used on a regular > basis more > > > > keyboard friendly it helped. > > > > > > Just try to keep that in mind. I know I always do. I let > users use > > > the mouse or enter with the keyboard. Their choice. > > > > > > Bryan Carbonnell > > > bryan_carbonnell at cbc.ca > > > > > > > > > >>> Lambert.Heenan at AIG.com 17-Mar-04 9:21:45 AM >>> > > > My solution to date entry is simple - I never let user's > type in a > > > date. They always pick the date from a simple calendar > form (though > > > I don't use > > > the MS Calendar control). Click on a date field and up > pops the date > > > picker. > > > While this would not be suitable, perhaps, in applications where > > > massive numbers of dates need to be entered, I find it works just > > > fine for > me. > > > > > > Lambert > > > > > > -- > > > _______________________________________________ > > > AccessD mailing list > > > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > > > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > -- > > _______________________________________________ > > AccessD mailing list > > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > ************************************************************************ **** ******* 17/3/2004 This transmittal may contain confidential information intended solely for the addressee. If you are not the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that you have received this transmittal in error; any review, dissemination, distribution or copying of this transmittal is strictly prohibited. If you have received this communication in error, please notify us immediately by reply or by telephone (collect at 907-564-1000) and ask to speak with the message sender. In addition, please immediately delete this message and all attachments. Thank you. ACS -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From john at winhaven.net Thu Mar 18 15:15:34 2004 From: john at winhaven.net (John Bartow) Date: Thu, 18 Mar 2004 15:15:34 -0600 Subject: [AccessD] zip/unzip In-Reply-To: Message-ID: sent it direct HTH JB -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of John W. Colby Sent: Thursday, March 18, 2004 2:49 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] zip/unzip yes, the zip and unzip dlls. Thanks. John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com From mikedorism at adelphia.net Thu Mar 18 15:23:45 2004 From: mikedorism at adelphia.net (Mike & Doris Manning) Date: Thu, 18 Mar 2004 16:23:45 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Cascading Combos In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <000001c40d2f$4b90c7a0$6ae44344@hargrove.internal> Now, as soon as I try to change the rowsource of cboReason to filter based on cboReasonType ("SELECT ReasonID, ReasonType_FK, ReasonDescription, ReasonDiscontinued FROM tblReason WHERE (tblReason.ReasonType_FK=[Forms]![sfmEditIncidentDetails]![cboReasonType]);" ) I end up with blanks in both cboReason and cboReasonType. What am I missing? You are missing the fact that you referred to the form inside the quotes instead of outside. Try... "SELECT ReasonID, ReasonType_FK, ReasonDescription, ReasonDiscontinued FROM tblReason WHERE(tblReason.ReasonType_FK=" & [Forms]![sfmEditIncidentDetails]![cboReasonType]) Doris Manning Database Administrator Hargrove Inc. www.hargroveinc.com -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Bryan Carbonnell Sent: Thursday, March 18, 2004 3:10 PM To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: [AccessD] Cascading Combos I'm stuck and need some help. I think I've been thinking and working on this problem too long. I can't see what I'm missing. I have 3 tables: tblIncident ----------- IncidentID (AutoNum PK) IncidentReasonID_FK (Long) .... tblReason ---------- ReasonID (AutoNum PK) ReasonDescription (Text) ReasonTypeID_FK (Long) ReasonDiscontinued (Boolean) tblReasonType --------------- ReasonTypeID (AutoNum PK) ReasonTypeDescription (Text) ReasonTypeDiscontinued (Boolean) tblIncident is a 1-M with tblReason on ReasonID_FK=ReasonID tblReason is a M-1 with tblReasonType one ReasonTypeID_FK=ReasonTypeID What I am trying to do is create cascading combos on an edit only form. No additions or deletions. Just editing The form is based on a query that pulls the data from tblIncident cboReasonType is the ReasonType and is not bound bboReason is Limited to only those Reasons that have a ReasonTypeID_FK = cboReasonType and is bound to IncidentReasonID_FK So Far So good. Now I have cboReasonType's rowsource to be a query that includes all of the ReasonTypes (SELECT ReasonTypeID, ReasonTypeDescription, ReasonTypeDiscontinued FROM tblReasonType;) cboReason's rowsource is a query with the SQL "SELECT ReasonID, ReasonType_FK, ReasonDescription, ReasonDiscontinued FROM tblReason;" In the Current Event of the forms I have: 'Set the Reason Type cboReasonType = cboReason.Column(1) So as I navigate to the various records, I get the value of the RecordType Combo correct. Now, as soon as I try to change the rowsource of cboReason to filter based on cboReasonType ("SELECT ReasonID, ReasonType_FK, ReasonDescription, ReasonDiscontinued FROM tblReason WHERE (tblReason.ReasonType_FK=[Forms]![sfmEditIncidentDetails]![cboReasonType]);" ) I end up with blanks in both cboReason and cboReasonType. What am I missing? Is it that cboReason's RowSource is dependant on cboReasonType's value, which is in turn based on cboReason's value? If that is the problem, and now that I have typed this all out, I think it is, how the heck do I make it do what I want?? Thanks, Bryan Carbonnell bryan_carbonnell at cbc.ca -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From dmcafee at pacbell.net Thu Mar 18 15:33:17 2004 From: dmcafee at pacbell.net (David McAfee (Home)) Date: Thu, 18 Mar 2004 13:33:17 -0800 Subject: [AccessD] Cascading Combos In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Why not set the rowsource of the second combobox on enter? cbo2ndBox_OnEnter() me.cbo2ndBox.rowsource = "Select fields from table where foreignKey = " & me.cbo1stBox.column(0) End sub then on enter or after update of cbo1, clear cbo2 me.cbo2ndBox = null -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Bryan Carbonnell Sent: Thursday, March 18, 2004 12:10 PM To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: [AccessD] Cascading Combos I'm stuck and need some help. I think I've been thinking and working on this problem too long. I can't see what I'm missing. I have 3 tables: tblIncident ----------- IncidentID (AutoNum PK) IncidentReasonID_FK (Long) .... tblReason ---------- ReasonID (AutoNum PK) ReasonDescription (Text) ReasonTypeID_FK (Long) ReasonDiscontinued (Boolean) tblReasonType --------------- ReasonTypeID (AutoNum PK) ReasonTypeDescription (Text) ReasonTypeDiscontinued (Boolean) tblIncident is a 1-M with tblReason on ReasonID_FK=ReasonID tblReason is a M-1 with tblReasonType one ReasonTypeID_FK=ReasonTypeID What I am trying to do is create cascading combos on an edit only form. No additions or deletions. Just editing The form is based on a query that pulls the data from tblIncident cboReasonType is the ReasonType and is not bound bboReason is Limited to only those Reasons that have a ReasonTypeID_FK = cboReasonType and is bound to IncidentReasonID_FK So Far So good. Now I have cboReasonType's rowsource to be a query that includes all of the ReasonTypes (SELECT ReasonTypeID, ReasonTypeDescription, ReasonTypeDiscontinued FROM tblReasonType;) cboReason's rowsource is a query with the SQL "SELECT ReasonID, ReasonType_FK, ReasonDescription, ReasonDiscontinued FROM tblReason;" In the Current Event of the forms I have: 'Set the Reason Type cboReasonType = cboReason.Column(1) So as I navigate to the various records, I get the value of the RecordType Combo correct. Now, as soon as I try to change the rowsource of cboReason to filter based on cboReasonType ("SELECT ReasonID, ReasonType_FK, ReasonDescription, ReasonDiscontinued FROM tblReason WHERE (tblReason.ReasonType_FK=[Forms]![sfmEditIncidentDetails]![cboReasonType]);" ) I end up with blanks in both cboReason and cboReasonType. What am I missing? Is it that cboReason's RowSource is dependant on cboReasonType's value, which is in turn based on cboReason's value? If that is the problem, and now that I have typed this all out, I think it is, how the heck do I make it do what I want?? Thanks, Bryan Carbonnell bryan_carbonnell at cbc.ca From dmcafee at pacbell.net Thu Mar 18 15:36:44 2004 From: dmcafee at pacbell.net (David McAfee (Home)) Date: Thu, 18 Mar 2004 13:36:44 -0800 Subject: [AccessD] OT Wrist/Arm Pain - was Short Date Input Mask quest ion In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Dan, she got mad because someone made fun of her when typing on a split keyboard. They said she looked like she was doing the chicken dance with her elbows out there like open doors :P Who hurt you Charlotte? :) (Is it Friday yet?) D -----Original Message----- From: Dan Waters [mailto:dwaters at usinternet.com] Sent: Thursday, March 18, 2004 11:25 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: [AccessD] OT Wrist/Arm Pain - was Short Date Input Mask quest ion Gee Charlotte! I LOVE split keyboards! I just keep my elbows resting on the arms of my chair next to my side, my wrists stay straight, and all works fine. It is really interesting to learn how many different specific solutions people have come up with to solve these RSI problems. Dan -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Charlotte Foust Sent: Thursday, March 18, 2004 10:28 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] OT Wrist/Arm Pain - was Short Date Input Mask quest ion I've never had wrist problems from typing, only from reaching out and up to use the mouse. A keyboard shelf with and articlating mouse shelf puts the mouse level with the wrist rest for the keyboard, and I haven't had any problems since. PS/ I *hate* split keyboards and those ergonomic nightmares. I CANNOT type with my elbows stuck out like open doors! Charlotte Foust From dwaters at usinternet.com Thu Mar 18 15:42:06 2004 From: dwaters at usinternet.com (Dan Waters) Date: Thu, 18 Mar 2004 15:42:06 -0600 Subject: [AccessD] OT Wrist/Arm Pain - was Short Date Input Mask quest ion In-Reply-To: <10426604.1079644246983.JavaMail.root@sniper.marix.com> Message-ID: <001601c40d31$dc14dd50$de1811d8@DanWaters> I can't figure it out! What is DSFDF? Tell me off-line if you need to! Dan -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Charlotte Foust Sent: Thursday, March 18, 2004 3:04 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] OT Wrist/Arm Pain - was Short Date Input Mask quest ion I keep my elbows at my side and my wrists straight on a standard keyboard. All I need is a wrist support. I hate the elbows on the arm of the chair position for typing. DSFDF :-} Charlotte Foust -----Original Message----- From: Dan Waters [mailto:dwaters at usinternet.com] Sent: Thursday, March 18, 2004 11:25 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: [AccessD] OT Wrist/Arm Pain - was Short Date Input Mask quest ion Gee Charlotte! I LOVE split keyboards! I just keep my elbows resting on the arms of my chair next to my side, my wrists stay straight, and all works fine. It is really interesting to learn how many different specific solutions people have come up with to solve these RSI problems. Dan -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Charlotte Foust Sent: Thursday, March 18, 2004 10:28 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] OT Wrist/Arm Pain - was Short Date Input Mask quest ion I've never had wrist problems from typing, only from reaching out and up to use the mouse. A keyboard shelf with and articlating mouse shelf puts the mouse level with the wrist rest for the keyboard, and I haven't had any problems since. PS/ I *hate* split keyboards and those ergonomic nightmares. I CANNOT type with my elbows stuck out like open doors! Charlotte Foust -----Original Message----- From: Dan Waters [mailto:dwaters at usinternet.com] Sent: Thursday, March 18, 2004 6:34 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: [AccessD] OT Wrist/Arm Pain - was Short Date Input Mask quest ion For me two things have eliminated all wrist pain. First is that I try to use a split keyboard as much as possible. This lets my wrists stay straight while typing. It took me about 2 weeks to get used to it. Second is that I use a very lightweight mouse. I'm currently using a Fellowes Mini Web Pro, which only weighs 2 or 3 ounces. Before doing the two things above, I occasionally had to stop for several hours due to wrist pain, but not any more! Most of my work is typing text/code and creating forms and reports. Dan -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of rusty.hammond at cpiqpc.com Sent: Wednesday, March 17, 2004 1:30 PM To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: RE: [AccessD] OT Wrist/Arm Pain - was Short Date Input Mask quest ion I've switched my mouse to left handed at work as well. What has really helped the most for me is a quick set of wrist excercises I do each morning. Takes about 2 minutes to do. -----Original Message----- From: Porter, Mark [mailto:MPorter at acsalaska.com] Sent: Wednesday, March 17, 2004 1:09 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: [AccessD] Short Date Input Mask question My solution for wrist/arm pain was to learn to use the mouse left-handed. Back when I was working and consulting in the evenings, I would use the left hand at work and right hand in the evenings. Now I just switch off. Nothing but occasional soreness now and again for the last 4 years. Mark > -----Original Message----- > From: Charlotte Foust [mailto:cfoust at infostatsystems.com] > Sent: Wednesday, March 17, 2004 8:38 AM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: RE: [AccessD] Short Date Input Mask question > > > Hah! I got tendonitis in my thumb using a trackball. Had to go back > to a mouse. That just shows that there is no single right answer. :-} > > Charlotte Foust > > -----Original Message----- > From: William Hindman [mailto:wdhindman at bellsouth.net] > Sent: Wednesday, March 17, 2004 9:25 AM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: Re: [AccessD] Short Date Input Mask question > > > ...shortcut keys/number pad activate each calendar function ...and > I've got every client converted to trackballs instead of mice ...I > used to have severe CTS using a mouse but since moving to trackballs > I've been symptom free :) > > William Hindman > You know the world is upside down when Bill Clinton wins a Grammy and > Janet Jackson is the subject of a government sex investigation. Argus > Hamilton. > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Heenan, Lambert" > To: "'Access Developers discussion and problem solving'" > > Sent: Wednesday, March 17, 2004 10:52 AM > Subject: RE: [AccessD] Short Date Input Mask question > > > > Bryan, > > > > Point taken. This was why I made the comment about mass > data input. In > point > > of fact it is possible, though a bit clunky, to select a > date with the > > > keyboard, and I should perhaps revisit the design on the > form to make > > it easier to do so. > > > > RSI is a serious problem, and I sympathize with your for having to > > deal > with > > it. However it's not confined to mouse use, indeed I > remember it first > being > > reported back in the 80's before mice very prevalent. In those days > > the blame was laid at the door of the extreme ease with > which computer > keyboards > > operated vs. manual typewriters. This allowed for very rapid > > keystrokes, which was thought to be the root cause of RSI. > > > > I also see people who have bizarre ideas about how they should > > position their keyboards and mice. In short there are lots > of factors > > involved, and at the end of the day the user has to figure out the > > best way to use the d*mned machines. So, to reiterate, I think I'll > > take the time to redesign > my > > date picker form to allow for better keyboard use of it. > > > > Lambert > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > From: Bryan Carbonnell [SMTP:Bryan_Carbonnell at cbc.ca] > > > Sent: Wednesday, March 17, 2004 9:52 AM > > > To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com > > > Subject: RE: [AccessD] Short Date Input Mask question > > > > > > Lambert, > > > > > > It may work fine for you, but does it work for your users? Do you > > > force them to use the mouse to select the date, or can they do > > > everything they need to from the keyboard? > > > > > > The only reason I bring this up is that I have had RSI > from moving > > > between the mouse and keyboard for data entry too much. It got to > > > the point where by 10 AM I could not feel my little > finger and half > > > of my lower arm becaude of it. > > > > > > As soon as I got one application that I used on a regular > basis more > > > > keyboard friendly it helped. > > > > > > Just try to keep that in mind. I know I always do. I let > users use > > > the mouse or enter with the keyboard. Their choice. > > > > > > Bryan Carbonnell > > > bryan_carbonnell at cbc.ca > > > > > > > > > >>> Lambert.Heenan at AIG.com 17-Mar-04 9:21:45 AM >>> > > > My solution to date entry is simple - I never let user's > type in a > > > date. They always pick the date from a simple calendar > form (though > > > I don't use > > > the MS Calendar control). Click on a date field and up > pops the date > > > picker. > > > While this would not be suitable, perhaps, in applications where > > > massive numbers of dates need to be entered, I find it works just > > > fine for > me. > > > > > > Lambert > > > > > > -- > > > _______________________________________________ > > > AccessD mailing list > > > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > > > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > -- > > _______________________________________________ > > AccessD mailing list > > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > ************************************************************************ **** ******* 17/3/2004 This transmittal may contain confidential information intended solely for the addressee. If you are not the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that you have received this transmittal in error; any review, dissemination, distribution or copying of this transmittal is strictly prohibited. If you have received this communication in error, please notify us immediately by reply or by telephone (collect at 907-564-1000) and ask to speak with the message sender. In addition, please immediately delete this message and all attachments. Thank you. ACS -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From cfoust at infostatsystems.com Thu Mar 18 15:44:29 2004 From: cfoust at infostatsystems.com (Charlotte Foust) Date: Thu, 18 Mar 2004 13:44:29 -0800 Subject: [AccessD] OT Wrist/Arm Pain - was Short Date Input Mask quest ion Message-ID: Grrrr! All right, the gloves are off! I'm sending for the Access enforcers, Fluffy and Fang, to come and break your legs! Charlotte Foust -----Original Message----- From: David McAfee (Home) [mailto:dmcafee at pacbell.net] Sent: Thursday, March 18, 2004 1:37 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] OT Wrist/Arm Pain - was Short Date Input Mask quest ion Dan, she got mad because someone made fun of her when typing on a split keyboard. They said she looked like she was doing the chicken dance with her elbows out there like open doors :P Who hurt you Charlotte? :) (Is it Friday yet?) D -----Original Message----- From: Dan Waters [mailto:dwaters at usinternet.com] Sent: Thursday, March 18, 2004 11:25 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: [AccessD] OT Wrist/Arm Pain - was Short Date Input Mask quest ion Gee Charlotte! I LOVE split keyboards! I just keep my elbows resting on the arms of my chair next to my side, my wrists stay straight, and all works fine. It is really interesting to learn how many different specific solutions people have come up with to solve these RSI problems. Dan -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Charlotte Foust Sent: Thursday, March 18, 2004 10:28 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] OT Wrist/Arm Pain - was Short Date Input Mask quest ion I've never had wrist problems from typing, only from reaching out and up to use the mouse. A keyboard shelf with and articlating mouse shelf puts the mouse level with the wrist rest for the keyboard, and I haven't had any problems since. PS/ I *hate* split keyboards and those ergonomic nightmares. I CANNOT type with my elbows stuck out like open doors! Charlotte Foust -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From KIsmert at TexasSystems.com Thu Mar 18 15:50:00 2004 From: KIsmert at TexasSystems.com (Ken Ismert) Date: Thu, 18 Mar 2004 15:50:00 -0600 Subject: [AccessD] OT Wrist/Arm Pain - was Short Date Input Mask quest ion In-Reply-To: <000501c40d1e$b5ffd9c0$de1811d8@DanWaters> Message-ID: <014301c40d32$f7159850$2a3ca8c0@TEXASSYSTEMS.COM> Charlotte, > I CANNOT type with my elbows stuck out like open doors! Because of my, ummm, pastry habit, that's increasingly my only option! -Ken PS. I use Left-handed Kensington Expert Mouse w/Ergospace wrist rest, and a Datadesk Smartboard. Not perfect, but good enough. From jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com Thu Mar 18 15:53:29 2004 From: jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com (John W. Colby) Date: Thu, 18 Mar 2004 16:53:29 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] zip/unzip In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Thanks. It seems I have some problem. Whenever I try and register either of these things I get the error: "VBuzip10.dll was loaded but the dllRegisterServer entry point was not found." "DllRegisterServer may not be exported or a corrupt version of vbuzip10.dll may be in memory. Consider using PView to detect and remove it." On the other hand I try to register the vbeerrorhandler.dll from DatabaseAdvisor's web site and that registers flawlessly. I'm at a bit of a loss here. Is the dll I am trying to register bad? Do I have something in my registry that is bad and prevents correctly registering the vbunzip dll? PITA for sure! John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of John Bartow Sent: Thursday, March 18, 2004 4:16 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] zip/unzip sent it direct HTH JB -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of John W. Colby Sent: Thursday, March 18, 2004 2:49 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] zip/unzip yes, the zip and unzip dlls. Thanks. John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From Paul.Millard at freight.fedex.com Thu Mar 18 16:01:40 2004 From: Paul.Millard at freight.fedex.com (Millard, Paul --- Sr. Developer Analyst ---WGO) Date: Thu, 18 Mar 2004 14:01:40 -0800 Subject: [AccessD] Connect to DB2 Message-ID: <67B2D43A2067B248A36B007650A2312C35F886@PSJOE2K1.fxfwest.freight.fedex.com> Folks, Can anyone help me connect to a db2 database. I've seen multiple ways to connect using OLEDB Connection strings but I'm not sure what the database name and format should be. Below is a QMF SQL query tool .ini file used to connect to the database. If anyone can provide the string along with exact values based upon info below that would be great. Thanks, Paul [Server Parameters] Server1=HOST Server2=HOSTDSNB [HOST] RDBName=AFDSNP CollectionName=QMFWIN HostName=AFW1.HRO.AF.COM Port=446 SymDestName=*TCP/IP* DefaultSchedule1=Y00000078000003840009601710000012C000000000000000000020000000007FDFFFE00002710XX DefaultSchedule2=@ 0000000000000000 DefaultSchedule3=2 DefaultSchedule4= QueryBlockSize=32500 DecimalDelimiter=Period StringDelimiter=Apostrophe IsolationLevel=CursorStability BindReplace=1 BindKeep=1 BindOwner= xSingleCCSID=37 xMixedCCSID=0 xDoubleCCSID=0 xQMFCCSID=37 [HOSTDSNB] RDBName=AFDSNT CollectionName=QMFWIN HostName=AFW2.HRO.AF.COM Port=5030 SymDestName=*TCP/IP* DefaultSchedule1=Y00000078000003840009601710000012C000000000000000000020000000007FDFFFE00002710XX DefaultSchedule2=@ 0000000000000000 DefaultSchedule3=2 DefaultSchedule4= QueryBlockSize=32500 DecimalDelimiter=Period StringDelimiter=Apostrophe IsolationLevel=CursorStability BindReplace=1 BindKeep=1 BindOwner= xSingleCCSID=37 xMixedCCSID=0 xDoubleCCSID=0 xQMFCCSID=37 ********************************************************** This message contains information that is confidential and proprietary to FedEx Freight or its affiliates. It is intended only for the recipient named and for the express purpose(s) described therein. Any other use is prohibited. **************************************************************** From Lambert.Heenan at AIG.com Thu Mar 18 16:05:12 2004 From: Lambert.Heenan at AIG.com (Heenan, Lambert) Date: Thu, 18 Mar 2004 17:05:12 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] zip/unzip Message-ID: <8B98F8EA48F8BA47A2F24E0D0AF40CF407AD7FDE@xlivmbx12.aig.com> Check the web site again. I think I saw mention of the fact that these DLL's were plain vanilla, not OCX DLL's and so the do not need to be registered - just drop them into %systemroot%\system32 or the applications home folder. Lambert > -----Original Message----- > From: John W. Colby [SMTP:jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com] > Sent: Thursday, March 18, 2004 4:53 PM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: RE: [AccessD] zip/unzip > > Thanks. It seems I have some problem. Whenever I try and register either > of > these things I get the error: > > "VBuzip10.dll was loaded but the dllRegisterServer entry point was not > found." > "DllRegisterServer may not be exported or a corrupt version of > vbuzip10.dll > may be in memory. Consider using PView to detect and remove it." > > On the other hand I try to register the vbeerrorhandler.dll from > DatabaseAdvisor's web site and that registers flawlessly. > > I'm at a bit of a loss here. Is the dll I am trying to register bad? Do > I > have something in my registry that is bad and prevents correctly > registering > the vbunzip dll? > > PITA for sure! > > John W. Colby > www.ColbyConsulting.com > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of John Bartow > Sent: Thursday, March 18, 2004 4:16 PM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: RE: [AccessD] zip/unzip > > > sent it direct > > HTH > > JB > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of John W. Colby > Sent: Thursday, March 18, 2004 2:49 PM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: RE: [AccessD] zip/unzip > > > yes, the zip and unzip dlls. Thanks. > > John W. Colby > www.ColbyConsulting.com > > > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From john at winhaven.net Thu Mar 18 16:08:15 2004 From: john at winhaven.net (John Bartow) Date: Thu, 18 Mar 2004 16:08:15 -0600 Subject: [AccessD] zip/unzip In-Reply-To: Message-ID: John, Send me which OS and the command you're using and I will give it a try here. I do not have the dlls registered on any of my currently running workstations. John -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of John W. Colby Sent: Thursday, March 18, 2004 3:53 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] zip/unzip Thanks. It seems I have some problem. Whenever I try and register either of these things I get the error: "VBuzip10.dll was loaded but the dllRegisterServer entry point was not found." "DllRegisterServer may not be exported or a corrupt version of vbuzip10.dll may be in memory. Consider using PView to detect and remove it." On the other hand I try to register the vbeerrorhandler.dll from DatabaseAdvisor's web site and that registers flawlessly. I'm at a bit of a loss here. Is the dll I am trying to register bad? Do I have something in my registry that is bad and prevents correctly registering the vbunzip dll? PITA for sure! John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of John Bartow Sent: Thursday, March 18, 2004 4:16 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] zip/unzip sent it direct HTH JB -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of John W. Colby Sent: Thursday, March 18, 2004 2:49 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] zip/unzip yes, the zip and unzip dlls. Thanks. John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From BBarabash at TappeConstruction.com Thu Mar 18 16:10:00 2004 From: BBarabash at TappeConstruction.com (Brett Barabash) Date: Thu, 18 Mar 2004 16:10:00 -0600 Subject: [AccessD] zip/unzip Message-ID: <426071E0B0A6D311B3C0006008B0AB23AFE43C@TAPPEEXCH01> John, vbuzip10.dll is not an ActiveX DLL, so there is no need to register it. http://www.vbaccelerator.com/home/VB/Utilities/VBPZip/article.asp -----Original Message----- From: John W. Colby [mailto:jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com] Sent: Thursday, March 18, 2004 3:53 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] zip/unzip --------------Please open with care!------------ This message has bypassed some of our spam filtering rules. This message was scanned for viruses and executable code has been stripped. --------------------------------------------------------------- Thanks. It seems I have some problem. Whenever I try and register either of these things I get the error: "VBuzip10.dll was loaded but the dllRegisterServer entry point was not found." "DllRegisterServer may not be exported or a corrupt version of vbuzip10.dll may be in memory. Consider using PView to detect and remove it." On the other hand I try to register the vbeerrorhandler.dll from DatabaseAdvisor's web site and that registers flawlessly. I'm at a bit of a loss here. Is the dll I am trying to register bad? Do I have something in my registry that is bad and prevents correctly registering the vbunzip dll? PITA for sure! John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of John Bartow Sent: Thursday, March 18, 2004 4:16 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] zip/unzip sent it direct HTH JB -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of John W. Colby Sent: Thursday, March 18, 2004 2:49 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] zip/unzip yes, the zip and unzip dlls. Thanks. John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com -------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- The information in this email may contain confidential information that is legally privileged. The information is only for the use of the intended recipient(s) named above. If you are not the intended recipient(s), you are hereby notified that any disclosure, copying, distribution, or the taking of any action in regard to the content of this fax is strictly prohibited. If transmission is incorrect, unclear, or incomplete, please notify the sender immediately. The authorized recipient(s) of this information is/are prohibited from disclosing this information to any other party and is/are required to destroy the information after its stated need has been fulfilled. Any views expressed in this message are those of the individual sender, except where the sender specifies and with authority, states them to be the views of Tappe Construction Co. This footer also confirms that this email message has been scanned for the presence of computer viruses.Scanning of this message and addition of this footer is performed by SurfControl E-mail Filter software in conjunction with virus detection software. From john at winhaven.net Thu Mar 18 16:10:49 2004 From: john at winhaven.net (John Bartow) Date: Thu, 18 Mar 2004 16:10:49 -0600 Subject: [AccessD] zip/unzip In-Reply-To: <8B98F8EA48F8BA47A2F24E0D0AF40CF407AD7FDE@xlivmbx12.aig.com> Message-ID: Ah, that jiggles some demagnetized memory bits! I think thats the ticket, John -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Heenan, Lambert Sent: Thursday, March 18, 2004 4:05 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: [AccessD] zip/unzip Check the web site again. I think I saw mention of the fact that these DLL's were plain vanilla, not OCX DLL's and so the do not need to be registered - just drop them into %systemroot%\system32 or the applications home folder. Lambert > -----Original Message----- > From: John W. Colby [SMTP:jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com] > Sent: Thursday, March 18, 2004 4:53 PM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: RE: [AccessD] zip/unzip > > Thanks. It seems I have some problem. Whenever I try and register either > of > these things I get the error: > > "VBuzip10.dll was loaded but the dllRegisterServer entry point was not > found." > "DllRegisterServer may not be exported or a corrupt version of > vbuzip10.dll > may be in memory. Consider using PView to detect and remove it." > > On the other hand I try to register the vbeerrorhandler.dll from > DatabaseAdvisor's web site and that registers flawlessly. > > I'm at a bit of a loss here. Is the dll I am trying to register bad? Do > I > have something in my registry that is bad and prevents correctly > registering > the vbunzip dll? > > PITA for sure! > > John W. Colby > www.ColbyConsulting.com > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of John Bartow > Sent: Thursday, March 18, 2004 4:16 PM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: RE: [AccessD] zip/unzip > > > sent it direct > > HTH > > JB > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of John W. Colby > Sent: Thursday, March 18, 2004 2:49 PM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: RE: [AccessD] zip/unzip > > > yes, the zip and unzip dlls. Thanks. > > John W. Colby > www.ColbyConsulting.com > > > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From Subscriptions at servicexp.com Thu Mar 18 16:34:41 2004 From: Subscriptions at servicexp.com (Robert Gracie) Date: Thu, 18 Mar 2004 17:34:41 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] zip/unzip In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Hmmm, I have the same exact problem on my system, and Access 2K or 2K2 will not allow me to reference the .dll.. Robert Gracie www.servicexp.com -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of John W. Colby Sent: Thursday, March 18, 2004 4:53 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] zip/unzip Thanks. It seems I have some problem. Whenever I try and register either of these things I get the error: "VBuzip10.dll was loaded but the dllRegisterServer entry point was not found." "DllRegisterServer may not be exported or a corrupt version of vbuzip10.dll may be in memory. Consider using PView to detect and remove it." On the other hand I try to register the vbeerrorhandler.dll from DatabaseAdvisor's web site and that registers flawlessly. I'm at a bit of a loss here. Is the dll I am trying to register bad? Do I have something in my registry that is bad and prevents correctly registering the vbunzip dll? PITA for sure! John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of John Bartow Sent: Thursday, March 18, 2004 4:16 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] zip/unzip sent it direct HTH JB -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of John W. Colby Sent: Thursday, March 18, 2004 2:49 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] zip/unzip yes, the zip and unzip dlls. Thanks. John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From Subscriptions at servicexp.com Thu Mar 18 16:37:00 2004 From: Subscriptions at servicexp.com (Robert Gracie) Date: Thu, 18 Mar 2004 17:37:00 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] IsEncrypted Function?? In-Reply-To: <405A2801.28617.33E411A@localhost> Message-ID: Ah, of course no simple solution... Thanks for your help everyone... Robert Gracie www.servicexp.com -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Stuart McLachlan Sent: Thursday, March 18, 2004 7:52 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] IsEncrypted Function?? > I'm sorry.... A file and or a string....... > > Robert Gracie > www.servicexp.com > > > > > > > Does anyone have an IsEncrypted Function I can use? > > > > > To test whether *what* is encrypted? > What encryption scheme. There's no way to look at a string and say whether it is encrypted or not unless you know what sort of encrytion scheme is used or have an idea of what the original was. Sometimes not even then. Here are two strings: "ABC" "NOP". One is ROT13 encrypted. Which one? Depends on whether the original string was "ABC" or "NOP" :-) -- Lexacorp Ltd http://www.lexacorp.com.pg Information Technology Consultancy, Software Development,System Support. -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com Thu Mar 18 17:29:25 2004 From: jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com (John W. Colby) Date: Thu, 18 Mar 2004 18:29:25 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] zip/unzip In-Reply-To: Message-ID: I put them in System32 and the app page faults and closes Access if I try and run the zip stuff/ -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of John Bartow Sent: Thursday, March 18, 2004 5:11 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] zip/unzip Ah, that jiggles some demagnetized memory bits! I think thats the ticket, John -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Heenan, Lambert Sent: Thursday, March 18, 2004 4:05 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: [AccessD] zip/unzip Check the web site again. I think I saw mention of the fact that these DLL's were plain vanilla, not OCX DLL's and so the do not need to be registered - just drop them into %systemroot%\system32 or the applications home folder. Lambert > -----Original Message----- > From: John W. Colby [SMTP:jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com] > Sent: Thursday, March 18, 2004 4:53 PM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: RE: [AccessD] zip/unzip > > Thanks. It seems I have some problem. Whenever I try and register either > of > these things I get the error: > > "VBuzip10.dll was loaded but the dllRegisterServer entry point was not > found." > "DllRegisterServer may not be exported or a corrupt version of > vbuzip10.dll > may be in memory. Consider using PView to detect and remove it." > > On the other hand I try to register the vbeerrorhandler.dll from > DatabaseAdvisor's web site and that registers flawlessly. > > I'm at a bit of a loss here. Is the dll I am trying to register bad? Do > I > have something in my registry that is bad and prevents correctly > registering > the vbunzip dll? > > PITA for sure! > > John W. Colby > www.ColbyConsulting.com > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of John Bartow > Sent: Thursday, March 18, 2004 4:16 PM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: RE: [AccessD] zip/unzip > > > sent it direct > > HTH > > JB > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of John W. Colby > Sent: Thursday, March 18, 2004 2:49 PM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: RE: [AccessD] zip/unzip > > > yes, the zip and unzip dlls. Thanks. > > John W. Colby > www.ColbyConsulting.com > > > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From martyconnelly at shaw.ca Thu Mar 18 17:24:58 2004 From: martyconnelly at shaw.ca (MartyConnelly) Date: Thu, 18 Mar 2004 15:24:58 -0800 Subject: [AccessD] Connect to DB2 References: <67B2D43A2067B248A36B007650A2312C35F886@PSJOE2K1.fxfwest.freight.fedex.com> Message-ID: <405A2FCA.9080809@shaw.ca> Have a look through this site http://www.able-consulting.com/MDAC/ADO/Connection/OLEDB_Providers.htm#OLEDBProviderForDB2 Then check here since things like the rdbname change depending on whether you are going to VM, MVS, MVE or AS400 http://support.microsoft.com/default.aspx?scid=kb;EN-US;218590 I would try to create a blank .udl file in Notepad, save it , then open via explorer and select oledb for DB2, fill in the blanks test the connection when it works get the connection string out of the saved udl file. Millard, Paul --- Sr. Developer Analyst ---WGO wrote: >Folks, > >Can anyone help me connect to a db2 database. I've seen multiple ways to connect using OLEDB Connection strings but I'm not sure what the database name and format should be. Below is a QMF SQL query tool .ini file used to connect to the database. > >If anyone can provide the string along with exact values based upon info below that would be great. > >Thanks, >Paul > >[Server Parameters] >Server1=HOST >Server2=HOSTDSNB >[HOST] >RDBName=AFDSNP >CollectionName=QMFWIN >HostName=AFW1.HRO.AF.COM >Port=446 >SymDestName=*TCP/IP* >DefaultSchedule1=Y00000078000003840009601710000012C000000000000000000020000000007FDFFFE00002710XX >DefaultSchedule2=@ 0000000000000000 >DefaultSchedule3=2 >DefaultSchedule4= >QueryBlockSize=32500 >DecimalDelimiter=Period >StringDelimiter=Apostrophe >IsolationLevel=CursorStability >BindReplace=1 >BindKeep=1 >BindOwner= >xSingleCCSID=37 >xMixedCCSID=0 >xDoubleCCSID=0 >xQMFCCSID=37 >[HOSTDSNB] >RDBName=AFDSNT >CollectionName=QMFWIN >HostName=AFW2.HRO.AF.COM >Port=5030 >SymDestName=*TCP/IP* >DefaultSchedule1=Y00000078000003840009601710000012C000000000000000000020000000007FDFFFE00002710XX >DefaultSchedule2=@ 0000000000000000 >DefaultSchedule3=2 >DefaultSchedule4= >QueryBlockSize=32500 >DecimalDelimiter=Period >StringDelimiter=Apostrophe >IsolationLevel=CursorStability >BindReplace=1 >BindKeep=1 >BindOwner= >xSingleCCSID=37 >xMixedCCSID=0 >xDoubleCCSID=0 >xQMFCCSID=37 > > >********************************************************** >This message contains information that is confidential >and proprietary to FedEx Freight or its affiliates. >It is intended only for the recipient named and for >the express purpose(s) described therein. >Any other use is prohibited. >**************************************************************** > > > -- Marty Connelly Victoria, B.C. Canada From cfoust at infostatsystems.com Thu Mar 18 17:50:36 2004 From: cfoust at infostatsystems.com (Charlotte Foust) Date: Thu, 18 Mar 2004 15:50:36 -0800 Subject: [AccessD] OT Wrist/Arm Pain - was Short Date Input Mask quest ion Message-ID: Different strokes for different folks! Charlotte Foust -----Original Message----- From: Dan Waters [mailto:dwaters at usinternet.com] Sent: Thursday, March 18, 2004 1:42 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: [AccessD] OT Wrist/Arm Pain - was Short Date Input Mask quest ion I can't figure it out! What is DSFDF? Tell me off-line if you need to! Dan -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Charlotte Foust Sent: Thursday, March 18, 2004 3:04 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] OT Wrist/Arm Pain - was Short Date Input Mask quest ion I keep my elbows at my side and my wrists straight on a standard keyboard. All I need is a wrist support. I hate the elbows on the arm of the chair position for typing. DSFDF :-} Charlotte Foust -----Original Message----- From: Dan Waters [mailto:dwaters at usinternet.com] Sent: Thursday, March 18, 2004 11:25 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: [AccessD] OT Wrist/Arm Pain - was Short Date Input Mask quest ion Gee Charlotte! I LOVE split keyboards! I just keep my elbows resting on the arms of my chair next to my side, my wrists stay straight, and all works fine. It is really interesting to learn how many different specific solutions people have come up with to solve these RSI problems. Dan -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Charlotte Foust Sent: Thursday, March 18, 2004 10:28 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] OT Wrist/Arm Pain - was Short Date Input Mask quest ion I've never had wrist problems from typing, only from reaching out and up to use the mouse. A keyboard shelf with and articlating mouse shelf puts the mouse level with the wrist rest for the keyboard, and I haven't had any problems since. PS/ I *hate* split keyboards and those ergonomic nightmares. I CANNOT type with my elbows stuck out like open doors! Charlotte Foust -----Original Message----- From: Dan Waters [mailto:dwaters at usinternet.com] Sent: Thursday, March 18, 2004 6:34 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: [AccessD] OT Wrist/Arm Pain - was Short Date Input Mask quest ion For me two things have eliminated all wrist pain. First is that I try to use a split keyboard as much as possible. This lets my wrists stay straight while typing. It took me about 2 weeks to get used to it. Second is that I use a very lightweight mouse. I'm currently using a Fellowes Mini Web Pro, which only weighs 2 or 3 ounces. Before doing the two things above, I occasionally had to stop for several hours due to wrist pain, but not any more! Most of my work is typing text/code and creating forms and reports. Dan -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of rusty.hammond at cpiqpc.com Sent: Wednesday, March 17, 2004 1:30 PM To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: RE: [AccessD] OT Wrist/Arm Pain - was Short Date Input Mask quest ion I've switched my mouse to left handed at work as well. What has really helped the most for me is a quick set of wrist excercises I do each morning. Takes about 2 minutes to do. -----Original Message----- From: Porter, Mark [mailto:MPorter at acsalaska.com] Sent: Wednesday, March 17, 2004 1:09 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: [AccessD] Short Date Input Mask question My solution for wrist/arm pain was to learn to use the mouse left-handed. Back when I was working and consulting in the evenings, I would use the left hand at work and right hand in the evenings. Now I just switch off. Nothing but occasional soreness now and again for the last 4 years. Mark > -----Original Message----- > From: Charlotte Foust [mailto:cfoust at infostatsystems.com] > Sent: Wednesday, March 17, 2004 8:38 AM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: RE: [AccessD] Short Date Input Mask question > > > Hah! I got tendonitis in my thumb using a trackball. Had to go back > to a mouse. That just shows that there is no single right answer. :-} > > Charlotte Foust > > -----Original Message----- > From: William Hindman [mailto:wdhindman at bellsouth.net] > Sent: Wednesday, March 17, 2004 9:25 AM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: Re: [AccessD] Short Date Input Mask question > > > ...shortcut keys/number pad activate each calendar function ...and > I've got every client converted to trackballs instead of mice ...I > used to have severe CTS using a mouse but since moving to trackballs > I've been symptom free :) > > William Hindman > You know the world is upside down when Bill Clinton wins a Grammy and > Janet Jackson is the subject of a government sex investigation. Argus > Hamilton. > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Heenan, Lambert" > To: "'Access Developers discussion and problem solving'" > > Sent: Wednesday, March 17, 2004 10:52 AM > Subject: RE: [AccessD] Short Date Input Mask question > > > > Bryan, > > > > Point taken. This was why I made the comment about mass > data input. In > point > > of fact it is possible, though a bit clunky, to select a > date with the > > > keyboard, and I should perhaps revisit the design on the > form to make > > it easier to do so. > > > > RSI is a serious problem, and I sympathize with your for having to > > deal > with > > it. However it's not confined to mouse use, indeed I > remember it first > being > > reported back in the 80's before mice very prevalent. In those days > > the blame was laid at the door of the extreme ease with > which computer > keyboards > > operated vs. manual typewriters. This allowed for very rapid > > keystrokes, which was thought to be the root cause of RSI. > > > > I also see people who have bizarre ideas about how they should > > position their keyboards and mice. In short there are lots > of factors > > involved, and at the end of the day the user has to figure out the > > best way to use the d*mned machines. So, to reiterate, I think I'll > > take the time to redesign > my > > date picker form to allow for better keyboard use of it. > > > > Lambert > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > From: Bryan Carbonnell [SMTP:Bryan_Carbonnell at cbc.ca] > > > Sent: Wednesday, March 17, 2004 9:52 AM > > > To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com > > > Subject: RE: [AccessD] Short Date Input Mask question > > > > > > Lambert, > > > > > > It may work fine for you, but does it work for your users? Do you > > > force them to use the mouse to select the date, or can they do > > > everything they need to from the keyboard? > > > > > > The only reason I bring this up is that I have had RSI > from moving > > > between the mouse and keyboard for data entry too much. It got to > > > the point where by 10 AM I could not feel my little > finger and half > > > of my lower arm becaude of it. > > > > > > As soon as I got one application that I used on a regular > basis more > > > > keyboard friendly it helped. > > > > > > Just try to keep that in mind. I know I always do. I let > users use > > > the mouse or enter with the keyboard. Their choice. > > > > > > Bryan Carbonnell > > > bryan_carbonnell at cbc.ca > > > > > > > > > >>> Lambert.Heenan at AIG.com 17-Mar-04 9:21:45 AM >>> > > > My solution to date entry is simple - I never let user's > type in a > > > date. They always pick the date from a simple calendar > form (though > > > I don't use > > > the MS Calendar control). Click on a date field and up > pops the date > > > picker. > > > While this would not be suitable, perhaps, in applications where > > > massive numbers of dates need to be entered, I find it works just > > > fine for > me. > > > > > > Lambert > > > > > > -- > > > _______________________________________________ > > > AccessD mailing list > > > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > > > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > -- > > _______________________________________________ > > AccessD mailing list > > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > ************************************************************************ **** ******* 17/3/2004 This transmittal may contain confidential information intended solely for the addressee. 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ACS -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From cfoust at infostatsystems.com Thu Mar 18 17:51:50 2004 From: cfoust at infostatsystems.com (Charlotte Foust) Date: Thu, 18 Mar 2004 15:51:50 -0800 Subject: [AccessD] OT Wrist/Arm Pain - was Short Date Input Mask quest ion Message-ID: ROTFL Charlotte -----Original Message----- From: Ken Ismert [mailto:KIsmert at TexasSystems.com] Sent: Thursday, March 18, 2004 1:50 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: [AccessD] OT Wrist/Arm Pain - was Short Date Input Mask quest ion Charlotte, > I CANNOT type with my elbows stuck out like open doors! Because of my, ummm, pastry habit, that's increasingly my only option! -Ken PS. I use Left-handed Kensington Expert Mouse w/Ergospace wrist rest, and a Datadesk Smartboard. Not perfect, but good enough. -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From wdhindman at bellsouth.net Thu Mar 18 18:58:49 2004 From: wdhindman at bellsouth.net (William Hindman) Date: Thu, 18 Mar 2004 19:58:49 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Short Date Input Mask question References: <2F8793082E00D4119A1700B0D0216BF80222798B@main2.marlow.com> Message-ID: <001601c40d4d$570959d0$6101a8c0@dejpolsys> ...snore ...do while ...snore ...do while ...snore ...do while ...loop de loop :)))))) William Hindman You know the world is upside down when Bill Clinton wins a Grammy and Janet Jackson is the subject of a government sex investigation. Argus Hamilton. ----- Original Message ----- From: To: Sent: Thursday, March 18, 2004 12:28 PM Subject: RE: [AccessD] Short Date Input Mask question > Wait until I get that thing finished....THEN you'll have a reason to try my > new one.... grin. Of course, you'll probably complain about how 'un-mini' > it is...LOL! > > Drew > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of William > Hindman > Sent: Wednesday, March 17, 2004 3:45 PM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: Re: [AccessD] Short Date Input Mask question > > > ...yes and no ...convenient but a suck for bad data entry ime ...one types > in 6/1/2004 ...one types in 1/6/2004 ...one types in 1 jun 04 and tabs on > down the line, etc ...lecture me all day on dumb users but I don't have the > option of firing them ...so I pop up a small calendar every time ...if the > user enters directly in the text box, the calendar moves to the date entered > to provide visual feedback ...if he/she selects from the calendar it fills > the text box ...either way they can mouse it or keyboard it ...so no matter > whether the user is military trained (euro dating) or public school trained > (US dating you hope) or wants to type in the alpha month, I get him there > somehow so that the right date gets entered ...nothings foolproof but date > entry errors have gone to zero ...which is worth the cost of the popup to me > and my clients. > > ...as a side I tried this approach using the native calendar control and > could never make its speed acceptable ...after a lot of experimentation I > standardized on an older version of Drew's all vba code calendar (with some > mods) which is quite fast for my needs ...one of these days I might get > around to using his newest version but I've not found a reason to as yet :) > > William Hindman > You know the world is upside down when Bill Clinton wins a Grammy and Janet > Jackson is the subject of a government sex investigation. Argus Hamilton. > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Brett Barabash" > To: "'Access Developers discussion and problem solving'" > > Sent: Wednesday, March 17, 2004 3:43 PM > Subject: RE: [AccessD] Short Date Input Mask question > > > > >I do not believe that providing a pop up calendar is incorrect especially > > as > > >the users can tab into a date field and use a keyboard in any event. > > > > You missed my point. This is EXACTLY my sentiment. > > > > I said: > > >One of my biggest UI pet peeves is fields that disallow keyboard entry. > > > > My response was to someone who doesn't allow the user to tab into a date > > field and forces them to open up a calendar instead. In my opinion, this > is > > a lazy way of avoiding date validation code. > > > > Have you ever used a program or website that forces you to use a calendar > to > > enter your birthdate? (I have!) Personally, I find it a PITA to click a > > button to open a calendar, navigate to 1975, select May from a dropdown > and > > then click on the 6. I'd like to type 05/06/1975, but some lazy > programmer > > decided that it's way more elegant to launch a special screen to guide me > > through this complex process. > > > > OTOH, Outlook gives you several different options for date selection. To > > schedule a meeting for tomorrow, I can type... > > 03/18/2004 > > March 18, 2004 > > 2004 Mar 18 > > ...or click on the box next to the field if I want to see a calendar. > > > > The developers put a lot of thought into this and because of its inherent > > flexibility it is easy to use by all types of users. I wish other pieces > of > > software were as ambitious. > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: J?rgen Welz [mailto:jwelz at hotmail.com] > > Sent: Wednesday, March 17, 2004 1:45 PM > > To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com > > Subject: RE: [AccessD] Short Date Input Mask question > > > > At one point a few years ago at this list I made a similar comment saying > I > > provided a doubleclick pop up calendar and received a similar response. > As > > a result, I once logged usage of: > > > > Double click pop up calendar > > vs > > Key down with form key preview on, Alt-d pops calendar if screen > active > > control had a standard input mask property. > > > > I also considered a keyboard autokeys macro call a runcode that did the > same > > > > thing but never did implement this version. > > > > Logging indicated that well over 98% of the data entry was by double click > > popup calendar. Granted these were very 'unsophisticated' users but the > > majority of their daily tasks involved interaction with the application. > > > > I do not believe that providing a pop up calendar is incorrect especially > as > > > > the users can tab into a date field and use a keyboard in any event. > IIRC, > > I had changed the display format and input mask dynamically in the past so > > that a user could key in 'mm/dd/yy' but the display format whenever the > > control didn't have focus was 'mmm/dd/yyyy'. I also added a label > > displaying the input format at each date entry textbox so there was never > a > > question as to the required input sequence. > > > > I also believe that one of the reasons that my users like my pop up > calendar > > > > is because it also displays appointments and blocked off dates for that > user > > > > and other office staff (selected in multiselect list). It can be popped > by > > keyboard or by doubleclick and can be navigated by mouse or cursor or page > > keys (for months) and you can tab into a year textbox. The months are > each > > on a tab wtih Alt-character navigation and cursoring down past the end of > > one month moves to the next month (and up to previous). Finally, the > Enter > > keys accepts the date, sets the source textbox and dismisses the calendar > > and the Escape key dismisses the calendar without setting or changing a > > date. > > > > I am a firm believer in always providing a keyboard navigation method, but > > that never precludes adding a mouse alternative that does exactly the same > > thing. A pop up calendar can be entirely keyboard controlled at a cost of > a > > > > few extra keystrokes for the rich graphical information that it can > present. > > > > And just because it's there doesn't mean a user ever has to use it. It > > just turns out that my experience is that they will even though I have a > > prejudice for preferring to use the keyboard wherever possible. I suspect > > this prejudice afflicts most programmers. > > > > If only browers were more keyboard friendly. > > > > > > Ciao > > J?rgen Welz > > Edmonton, Alberta > > jwelz at hotmail.com > > > > > > > > > > > > >From: Brett Barabash > > > > > >I bet the data entry people love you! > > > > > >It may "work for you", but I'll bet that there are some users out there > > >that > > >feel otherwise. One of my biggest UI pet peeves is fields that disallow > > >keyboard entry. One record or 1000 records, it's still annoying to move > > >your hand off of the home row of your keyboard and click around to select > a > > >date. > > > > > > > > >-----Original Message----- > > >From: Heenan, Lambert [mailto:Lambert.Heenan at aig.com] > > >Sent: Wednesday, March 17, 2004 8:22 AM > > >To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' > > >Subject: RE: [AccessD] Short Date Input Mask question > > > > > > > > >My solution to date entry is simple - I never let user's type in a date. > > >They always pick the date from a simple calendar form (though I don't > use > > >the MS Calendar control). Click on a date field and up pops the date > > >picker. > > >While this would not be suitable, perhaps, in applications where massive > > >numbers of dates need to be entered, I find it works just fine for me. > > > > > >Lambert > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > > From: Arthur Fuller [SMTP:artful at rogers.com] > > > > Sent: Tuesday, March 16, 2004 5:47 PM > > > > To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' > > > > Subject: [AccessD] Short Date Input Mask question > > > > > > > > The standard short date input mask (99/99/0000;0;_) has a shortcoming > > > > that I hate: you have to type 04/04/04 to get April 4th 2004. The year > > > > handling is nice but the month and day suck. The mask won't let you > type > > > > 4/4/04. Is there an alternative mask that will respond intelligently > to > > > > such input? Or should I instead just remove all the input masks from > all > > > > the date fields? > > > > > > > > TIA, > > > > Arthur > > > > _________________________________________________________________ > > > > -------------------------------------------------------------------------- > ------------------------------------------ > > The information in this email may contain confidential information that > > is legally privileged. The information is only for the use of the intended > > recipient(s) named above. If you are not the intended recipient(s), you > > are hereby notified that any disclosure, copying, distribution, or the > taking > > of any action in regard to the content of this fax is strictly prohibited. > If > > transmission is incorrect, unclear, or incomplete, please notify the > sender > > immediately. The authorized recipient(s) of this information is/are > prohibited > > from disclosing this information to any other party and is/are required to > > destroy the information after its stated need has been fulfilled. > > > > Any views expressed in this message are those of the individual > > sender, except where the sender specifies and with authority, > > states them to be the views of Tappe Construction Co. > > > > This footer also confirms that this email message has been scanned > > for the presence of computer viruses.Scanning of this message and > > addition of this footer is performed by SurfControl E-mail Filter software > > in conjunction with virus detection software. > > > > -- > > _______________________________________________ > > AccessD mailing list > > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > From accessd at shaw.ca Thu Mar 18 19:16:39 2004 From: accessd at shaw.ca (Jim Lawrence (AccessD)) Date: Thu, 18 Mar 2004 17:16:39 -0800 Subject: [AccessD] Short Date Input Mask question In-Reply-To: Message-ID: In the local provincial government, the standard preferred is dd Mon yyyy/dd-Mmm-yyyy or 10 Mar 2004 and there never is any confusion. Jim -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Bryan Carbonnell Sent: Thursday, March 18, 2004 6:48 AM To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: Re: [AccessD] Short Date Input Mask question > whether the user is military trained (euro dating) or public school trained > (US dating you hope) or wants to type in the alpha month, I get him there Don't you mean "US public school trained (US dating you hope)"? :) I would expect that public school trained folks here in Canada to use d-m-y and not m-d-y :-) Although I believe I was taught y-m-d, but maybe that was in University. I don't remeber Getting too senile Bryan Carbonnell bryan_carbonnell at cbc.ca >>> wdhindman at bellsouth.net 17-Mar-04 4:44:47 PM >>> ...yes and no ...convenient but a suck for bad data entry ime ...one types in 6/1/2004 ...one types in 1/6/2004 ...one types in 1 jun 04 and tabs on down the line, etc ...lecture me all day on dumb users but I don't have the option of firing them ...so I pop up a small calendar every time ...if the user enters directly in the text box, the calendar moves to the date entered to provide visual feedback ...if he/she selects from the calendar it fills the text box ...either way they can mouse it or keyboard it ...so no matter whether the user is military trained (euro dating) or public school trained (US dating you hope) or wants to type in the alpha month, I get him there somehow so that the right date gets entered ...nothings foolproof but date entry errors have gone to zero ...which is worth the cost of the popup to me and my clients. -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From bchacc at san.rr.com Thu Mar 18 19:39:12 2004 From: bchacc at san.rr.com (Rocky Smolin - Beach Access Software) Date: Thu, 18 Mar 2004 17:39:12 -0800 Subject: [AccessD] Mixed Versions Message-ID: <01fb01c40d52$fb8ba990$6601a8c0@HAL9002> Dear List: I have a client running one of my old A97 apps FE and BE. He wants me to supply an FE that will run on a machine with AXP or A2003 I have A2K. If I convert my A97 FE to A2K and make an mde out of it, will the mde run on a box with AXP and/or A2003 and be able to read/write the A97 BE? MTIA, Rocky Smolin Beach Access Software http://www.e-z-mrp.com From jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com Thu Mar 18 20:02:05 2004 From: jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com (John W. Colby) Date: Thu, 18 Mar 2004 21:02:05 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] zip/unzip In-Reply-To: Message-ID: OK, I got it working. It was page faulting because I wasn't setting up required properties before trying the zip, little things like the name of the zip file, the name of the object to zip etc. Once I set those properties, it works fine. The zipped file can be read by Winzip. Cool stuff and will be part of the next framework demo article I'm working on tonight. >Ah, that jiggles some demagnetized memory bits! You my dear friend are OLD it would seem. Are you by any chance referring to core memory? I actually worked on computers with core memory back in my Navy days. Massive Sperry Univac 642/B refrigerator sized "mainframes", 36 bit with 32 kwords of core memory and a lightening fast 4 microsecond instruction time (256 k instructions / second). John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of John W. Colby Sent: Thursday, March 18, 2004 6:29 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] zip/unzip I put them in System32 and the app page faults and closes Access if I try and run the zip stuff/ -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of John Bartow Sent: Thursday, March 18, 2004 5:11 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] zip/unzip Ah, that jiggles some demagnetized memory bits! I think thats the ticket, John From accessd at shaw.ca Thu Mar 18 19:56:52 2004 From: accessd at shaw.ca (Jim Lawrence (AccessD)) Date: Thu, 18 Mar 2004 17:56:52 -0800 Subject: [AccessD] Re: Hyperlink Field In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.2.20040318131705.02acd340@pop3.highstream.net> Message-ID: Isn't memory the second thing to go and I can't remember the first... Jim -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Robert L. Stewart Sent: Thursday, March 18, 2004 11:22 AM To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: [AccessD] Re: Hyperlink Field I finally remembered what I used a hyperlink capable label for. I was linking to external images (jpgs) and wanted a "link" to them so I stored the path in the db and set the hyperlink address property in code. So Virginia, I mislead you, but I also know that you have a good answer from one of the other listers. I hate getting old :-() They say memory is the first thing to go. I cannot remember what the second thing was! Robert At 12:00 PM 3/18/2004 -0600, you wrote: >Date: Thu, 18 Mar 2004 11:04:55 -0600 >From: "Robert L. Stewart" >Subject: [AccessD] Re: Re: Hyperlink Field >To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com >Cc: stuart at lexacorp.com.pg >Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20040318110136.02ad3800 at pop3.highstream.net> >Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed > >Stuart, > >Try Hyperlink Address and Hyperlink subaddress >properties for a label. Access 97, 2000, 2002, >2003 > >After looking at what she asked closer, I >think all she needs to do is add a hyperlink >datatype column to her table. > >Robert > >At 08:34 AM 3/18/2004 -0600, you wrote: > >Message: 5 > >Date: Thu, 18 Mar 2004 08:12:52 +1000 > >From: "Stuart McLachlan" > >Subject: Re: [AccessD] Re: Hyperlink Field > >To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > > > >Message-ID: <40595A04.4146.19A0E9 at localhost> > >Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII > > > >On 17 Mar 2004 at 15:53, Robert L. Stewart wrote: > > > > > Virginia, > > > > > > The trick is that a label has the hyperlink > > > property and not a text box. Use a label > > > and set the properties for it in code. > > > > > > > > > >Not in any version of Access I've ever seen. > > > >The "Is hyperlink" property is the last one in the "Format" tab of > >the textbox "Properties" dialog. > -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From d.dick at uws.edu.au Thu Mar 18 20:05:41 2004 From: d.dick at uws.edu.au (Darren DICK) Date: Fri, 19 Mar 2004 13:05:41 +1100 Subject: [AccessD] A2K: Stop Code, Accept Input then restart code Message-ID: <021a01c40d56$ae637a40$48619a89@DDICK> Hello all I have code on Form 1 that alerts the user to something What I want to do is half way through the alert code, stop the alert code, open form 2 (a popup form) Allow user to select a value from a combo on Form 2. Close form 2 then pass that value from Form 2 back to the Alert code on Form 1 and continue processing the Alert code using the value passed from Form 2 What I don't know how to do is...Stop processing the Alert Code in Form 1 - I do know how to get ....A value from Form 2 What I don't know how to do is...Start processing the Alert Code in Form 1 again with the new value Make sense? Am I going about this the right way? Many thanks in advance Darren From accessd at shaw.ca Thu Mar 18 20:06:57 2004 From: accessd at shaw.ca (Jim Lawrence (AccessD)) Date: Thu, 18 Mar 2004 18:06:57 -0800 Subject: [AccessD] Connect to DB2 In-Reply-To: <67B2D43A2067B248A36B007650A2312C35F886@PSJOE2K1.fxfwest.freight.fedex.com> Message-ID: Hi Paul: Check this site out. It gives a number of DB2 connection examples depending on what and how you require the connection. http://www.able-consulting.com/ADO_Conn.htm HTH Jim -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Millard, Paul --- Sr. Developer Analyst ---WGO Sent: Thursday, March 18, 2004 2:02 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: [AccessD] Connect to DB2 Folks, Can anyone help me connect to a db2 database. I've seen multiple ways to connect using OLEDB Connection strings but I'm not sure what the database name and format should be. Below is a QMF SQL query tool .ini file used to connect to the database. If anyone can provide the string along with exact values based upon info below that would be great. Thanks, Paul [Server Parameters] Server1=HOST Server2=HOSTDSNB [HOST] RDBName=AFDSNP CollectionName=QMFWIN HostName=AFW1.HRO.AF.COM Port=446 SymDestName=*TCP/IP* DefaultSchedule1=Y00000078000003840009601710000012C0000000000000000000200000 00007FDFFFE00002710XX DefaultSchedule2=@ 0000000000000000 DefaultSchedule3=2 DefaultSchedule4= QueryBlockSize=32500 DecimalDelimiter=Period StringDelimiter=Apostrophe IsolationLevel=CursorStability BindReplace=1 BindKeep=1 BindOwner= xSingleCCSID=37 xMixedCCSID=0 xDoubleCCSID=0 xQMFCCSID=37 [HOSTDSNB] RDBName=AFDSNT CollectionName=QMFWIN HostName=AFW2.HRO.AF.COM Port=5030 SymDestName=*TCP/IP* DefaultSchedule1=Y00000078000003840009601710000012C0000000000000000000200000 00007FDFFFE00002710XX DefaultSchedule2=@ 0000000000000000 DefaultSchedule3=2 DefaultSchedule4= QueryBlockSize=32500 DecimalDelimiter=Period StringDelimiter=Apostrophe IsolationLevel=CursorStability BindReplace=1 BindKeep=1 BindOwner= xSingleCCSID=37 xMixedCCSID=0 xDoubleCCSID=0 xQMFCCSID=37 ********************************************************** This message contains information that is confidential and proprietary to FedEx Freight or its affiliates. It is intended only for the recipient named and for the express purpose(s) described therein. Any other use is prohibited. **************************************************************** -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From martyconnelly at shaw.ca Thu Mar 18 20:08:54 2004 From: martyconnelly at shaw.ca (MartyConnelly) Date: Thu, 18 Mar 2004 18:08:54 -0800 Subject: [AccessD] Detecting when an Access Report has been closed! References: <20040315183851.5477.qmail@web13012.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <405A5636.3090508@shaw.ca> You might try something like this 'Here 's a thought. Instead of adding code to the report, why not just test 'for the "Open" state of the report. Add this to your code AFTER it opens 'the Report stDocName: borrowed this from Roger Carlson DoCmd.OpenReport stDocName, acViewNormal ' Do While SysCmd(acSysCmdGetObjectState, acReport, stDocName) DoEvents Loop ' MsgBox "report Done" 'The Do Loop will check to see if your report (held in the stDocName 'variable) is open. Once it is closed, it will fall through the loop and the ' you can check what you want Dick Abo wrote: > >I have a form from which the user views a report in Print Preview mode by clicking the View Report button. I would like user to respond to the question to Publish, or Not Publish the report after the report is viewed. If the user decides to Publish the report, I export the report to Word and then save it in Ascii format (MS-DOS text w/layout). > >I could incorporate a separate button on the form that just generates the Access 2000 report in acPreview mode. I would prefer to detect when the report has been closed by the user so that I can then ask the question, Publish or Not Publish the report and to execute the remaining code that is behind the existing View Report button? > >Can you kindly give me some advice on how to do this! > >TIA, > >Rick > > >Do you Yahoo!? >Yahoo! Mail - More reliable, more storage, less spam > > -- Marty Connelly Victoria, B.C. Canada From jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com Thu Mar 18 20:23:06 2004 From: jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com (John W. Colby) Date: Thu, 18 Mar 2004 21:23:06 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] A2K: Stop Code, Accept Input then restart code In-Reply-To: <021a01c40d56$ae637a40$48619a89@DDICK> Message-ID: Any time you open a form modal, processing stops in the code that opens that form. It's just automatic, and is one of the parameters of the docmd.open form syntax. John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Darren DICK Sent: Thursday, March 18, 2004 9:06 PM To: AccessD List Subject: [AccessD] A2K: Stop Code, Accept Input then restart code Hello all I have code on Form 1 that alerts the user to something What I want to do is half way through the alert code, stop the alert code, open form 2 (a popup form) Allow user to select a value from a combo on Form 2. Close form 2 then pass that value from Form 2 back to the Alert code on Form 1 and continue processing the Alert code using the value passed from Form 2 What I don't know how to do is...Stop processing the Alert Code in Form 1 - I do know how to get ....A value from Form 2 What I don't know how to do is...Start processing the Alert Code in Form 1 again with the new value Make sense? Am I going about this the right way? Many thanks in advance Darren -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From accessd at shaw.ca Thu Mar 18 20:34:07 2004 From: accessd at shaw.ca (Jim Lawrence (AccessD)) Date: Thu, 18 Mar 2004 18:34:07 -0800 Subject: [AccessD] A2K: Stop Code, Accept Input then restart code In-Reply-To: <021a01c40d56$ae637a40$48619a89@DDICK> Message-ID: Hi Darren: Run the second or third form from the 'on timer' event that should allow multiple processes to run or/and use the DoEvents.. globalvariable1 = True DoCmd.OpenForm "Form2" Do While globalvariable1 = True DoEvents Loop DoCmd.Close ,"Form2", acSaveYes This will hold things relatively static until any process unsets the global variable. HTH Jim -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Darren DICK Sent: Thursday, March 18, 2004 6:06 PM To: AccessD List Subject: [AccessD] A2K: Stop Code, Accept Input then restart code Hello all I have code on Form 1 that alerts the user to something What I want to do is half way through the alert code, stop the alert code, open form 2 (a popup form) Allow user to select a value from a combo on Form 2. Close form 2 then pass that value from Form 2 back to the Alert code on Form 1 and continue processing the Alert code using the value passed from Form 2 What I don't know how to do is...Stop processing the Alert Code in Form 1 - I do know how to get ....A value from Form 2 What I don't know how to do is...Start processing the Alert Code in Form 1 again with the new value Make sense? Am I going about this the right way? Many thanks in advance Darren -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From martyconnelly at shaw.ca Thu Mar 18 20:39:58 2004 From: martyconnelly at shaw.ca (MartyConnelly) Date: Thu, 18 Mar 2004 18:39:58 -0800 Subject: [AccessD] Re: Printing forms References: Message-ID: <405A5D7E.1030203@shaw.ca> You could try this code I use to send error reports ; dumps form or screen to word along with a task manger list You could set AltKey Macro to some hotkey combination maybe F7 so it calls SnapPrintScreen then ErrorReportToWord and you will have your screens in a automatcally pasted in a Word Document. I can send you a simple Access97 mdb with this running. Sub ErrorScreenReport() 'turn on reference to Microsoft Word Object Library SnapPrintScreen 'or SnapPrintForm ErrorReportToWord End Sub Option Compare Database Option Explicit '_______________________________________________________ ' Snap a picture of the screen and send error messages, ' screen picture and tasklist to a word document '________________________________________________________ 'turn on reference to Microsoft Word Object Library Private Const VK_LWIN = &H5B 'Left window button Private Const VK_RETURN = &HD 'ENTER key Private Const VK_SHIFT = &H10 'SHIFT key Private Const VK_CONTROL = &H11 'CTRL key Private Const VK_MENU = &H12 'ALT key Private Const VK_PAUSE = &H13 'PAUSE key Private Const VK_CAPITAL = &H14 'CAPS LOCK key Private Const VK_SNAPSHOT = &H2C 'Print Screen Private Const VK_APPS = &H5D 'Applications key on a Microsoft Natural Keyboard 'from http://support.microsoft.com/view/dev.asp?kb=242971 Const GW_HWNDFIRST = 0 Const GW_HWNDNEXT = 2 Private Const KEYEVENTF_KEYUP = &H2 Private Declare Sub keybd_event Lib "user32" (ByVal bVk As Byte, _ ByVal bScan As Byte, ByVal dwflags As Long, ByVal dwExtraInfo As Long) Private Declare Function GetWindow Lib "user32" _ (ByVal hWnd As Long, ByVal wCmd As Long) As Long Private Declare Function GetParent Lib "user32" _ (ByVal hWnd As Long) As Long Private Declare Function GetWindowTextLength Lib _ "user32" Alias "GetWindowTextLengthA" (ByVal hWnd As Long) As Long Private Declare Function GetWindowText Lib "user32" _ Alias "GetWindowTextA" (ByVal hWnd As Long, ByVal _ lpString As String, ByVal cch As Long) As Long Private Declare Function FindWindow Lib "user32" Alias "FindWindowA" _ (ByVal lpClassName As String, ByVal lpWindowName As String) As Long Private Declare Function SetFocusAPI Lib "user32" Alias "SetFocus" _ (ByVal hWnd As Long) As Long Sub ErrorScreenReport() 'turn on reference to Microsoft Word Object Library SnapPrintScreen 'SnapPrintForm ErrorReportToWord End Sub Sub ErrorReportToWord() Dim ObjWord As Word.Application Dim temp As String Dim strFileName As String Dim strErrDesc As String Dim strLoadTaskList As String Dim appPathAccess As String ' grab the Task List strLoadTaskList = LoadTaskList() ' On Error Resume Next Set ObjWord = New Word.Application ' Disable command button to prevent object being recreated ' If you have an error in here, it will litter memory with copies of word ' so put in error handling ObjWord.Documents.Add ObjWord.Selection.Paste strErrDesc = "Error No: " & Err.Number & "; Description: " & Err.Description 'no range selected so text placed at end of document ObjWord.Application.Selection.Font.Size = 14 ObjWord.Application.Selection.Font.Bold = True strErrDesc = strErrDesc & " Module name = ..." & vbCrLf & vbCrLf ObjWord.Application.Selection.Font.Size = 10 ObjWord.Application.Selection.Font.Bold = True strErrDesc = strErrDesc & strLoadTaskList ObjWord.ActiveDocument.Content.InsertAfter Text:=strErrDesc ' Saves report with a new filename ' Name of report file, change path to whatever is applicable appPathAccess = CurrentDBDir strFileName = appPathAccess & "ErrorReport" strFileName = strFileName & Format(Now, "yyyymmddhhmmss") & ".doc" ObjWord.ActiveDocument.SaveAs (strFileName) ' Quit Word ObjWord.Documents.Close ObjWord.Quit ' Inform user that report is created MsgBox "Error Report Created in File" & vbCrLf & strFileName ' Clear our pointer to word Set ObjWord = Nothing End Sub 'Determining Which Tasks Are Running 'With the Microsoft Windows operating system, 'you can run any number of applications simultaneously. 'Occasionally, you may need to determine which tasks are currently being 'run. 'This can be accomplished by using several Windows application programming 'interface '(API) functions. 'To find the names of all currently executing tasks, 'you must first determine the handle of the window that is currently 'at the top of the z-order. This, of course, would be the window of your 'own Microsoft Visual Basic application. 'You can use the Windows API GetWindow function to retrieve the handle 'of your application's window with the statement: ' CurrWnd = GetWindow(Form1.hwnd, GW_HWNDFIRST) ' To use in Access replace with the following ' parent_hwnd = FindWindow(vbNullString, "Microsoft Access") 'The first argument of the GetWindow function is the handle of the window 'that is at the top of the z-order. In this case, this is the handle of 'Form1. 'The second argument of the GetWindow function specifies the window 'you want to retrieve the handle for. 'This argument can have one of the following values: ' GW_CHILD Retrieve the handle for the child window. ' GW_HWNDFIRST Retrieve the handle for the window at the top of the z- 'order. ' GW_HWNDLAST Retrieve the handle for the window at the bottom of the z- 'order. ' GW_HWNDNEXT Retrieve the handle of the window below the specified window 'in the z-order. ' GW_HWNDPREV Retrieve the handle of the window above the specified window 'in the z-order. ' GW_OWNER Retrieve the handle of the window that owns the specified 'window, if any. 'After you have retrieved the application's window handle, 'you can use the Windows API GetParent function to retrieve this window's 'child window handle. Next, you call the Windows API GetWindowText and 'GetWindowTextLength functions to retrieve the text in the window's title 'bar 'and the length of this text, respectively. You can then use the text string 'in your own application. For example, you can save the title bar text 'to a List Box control. 'All of the above steps are repeated until you have processed all running 'tasks. 'You know that you have gone through each task when the current window is 'that'of your own application. Function LoadTaskList() As String Dim CurrWnd As Long Dim Length As Long Dim TaskName As String Dim Parent As Long Dim parent_hwnd As Long Dim strMyTaskList As String strMyTaskList = " Task List " & vbCrLf ' This line below works from VB form 'CurrWnd = GetWindow(Form1.hwnd, GW_HWNDFIRST) ' get Parent Window Handle parent_hwnd = FindWindow(vbNullString, "Microsoft Access") If parent_hwnd = 0 Then MsgBox "Access Not Found" Exit Function End If 'SetFocusAPI parent_hwnd CurrWnd = parent_hwnd While CurrWnd <> 0 Parent = GetParent(CurrWnd) Length = GetWindowTextLength(CurrWnd) TaskName = Space$(Length + 1) Length = GetWindowText(CurrWnd, TaskName, Length + 1) TaskName = Left$(TaskName, Len(TaskName) - 1) If Length > 0 Then 'If TaskName <> Me.Caption Then 'If TaskName <> "Microsoft Access" Then 'List1.AddItem TaskName strMyTaskList = strMyTaskList & TaskName & vbCrLf Debug.Print TaskName 'End If End If CurrWnd = GetWindow(CurrWnd, GW_HWNDNEXT) DoEvents Wend LoadTaskList = strMyTaskList End Function ' Function CurrentDBDir() As String ' get Current Database Path string Dim strDBPath As String Dim strDBFile As String strDBPath = CurrentDb.Name strDBFile = Dir(strDBPath) CurrentDBDir = Left(strDBPath, Len(strDBPath) - Len(strDBFile)) End Function ---------------------------------------put in another module -------------------------------------- '_______________________________________________________ ' Snap a picture of the screen and send error messages, ' screen picture and tasklist to a word document '________________________________________________________ Private Const VK_LWIN = &H5B 'Left window button Private Const VK_RETURN = &HD 'ENTER key Private Const VK_SHIFT = &H10 'SHIFT key Private Const VK_CONTROL = &H11 'CTRL key Private Const VK_MENU = &H12 'ALT key Private Const VK_PAUSE = &H13 'PAUSE key Private Const VK_CAPITAL = &H14 'CAPS LOCK key Private Const VK_SNAPSHOT = &H2C 'Print Screen Private Const VK_APPS = &H5D 'Applications key on a Microsoft Natural Keyboard 'from http://support.microsoft.com/view/dev.asp?kb=242971 Const GW_HWNDFIRST = 0 Const GW_HWNDNEXT = 2 Private Const KEYEVENTF_KEYUP = &H2 Private Declare Sub keybd_event Lib "user32" (ByVal bVk As Byte, _ ByVal bScan As Byte, ByVal dwflags As Long, ByVal dwExtraInfo As Long) Private Declare Function GetWindow Lib "user32" _ (ByVal hWnd As Long, ByVal wCmd As Long) As Long Private Declare Function GetParent Lib "user32" _ (ByVal hWnd As Long) As Long Private Declare Function GetWindowTextLength Lib _ "user32" Alias "GetWindowTextLengthA" (ByVal hWnd As Long) As Long Private Declare Function GetWindowText Lib "user32" _ Alias "GetWindowTextA" (ByVal hWnd As Long, ByVal _ lpString As String, ByVal cch As Long) As Long Private Declare Function FindWindow Lib "user32" Alias "FindWindowA" _ (ByVal lpClassName As String, ByVal lpWindowName As String) As Long Private Declare Function SetFocusAPI Lib "user32" Alias "SetFocus" _ (ByVal hWnd As Long) As Long Sub OpenWindowsHelp() ' Open the Windows Help ' ' You can use the same technique to programmatically "press" any other ' key, including Shift, Ctrl, Alt and keys combinations that can't be ' simulated through SendKeys ' programmatically press the Windows key keybd_event VK_LWIN, 0, 0, 0 ' then press and then release the F1 key keybd_event vbKeyF1, 0, 0, 0 keybd_event vbKeyF1, 0, KEYEVENTF_KEYUP, 0 ' and finally release the Windows Key keybd_event VK_LWIN, 0, KEYEVENTF_KEYUP, 0 End Sub Sub CloseAllWindows() ' Minimize all open windows 'Const acaltMask ' programmatically press the Windows key keybd_event VK_LWIN, 0, 0, 0 ' then press and then release the M key keybd_event vbKeyM, 0, 0, 0 keybd_event vbKeyM, 0, KEYEVENTF_KEYUP, 0 ' and finally release the Windows Key keybd_event VK_LWIN, 0, KEYEVENTF_KEYUP, 0 End Sub Sub SnapPrintForm() 'use the following code inside form or focused window 'to simulate the Alt / PrintScreen = key combination: 'If form popup in Access will capture form ' programmatically press the ALT key ' keybd_event VK_MENU, 0, 0, 0 ' then press and then release the PrtScreen key keybd_event VK_SNAPSHOT, 1, 0, 0 DoEvents ' keybd_event VK_SNAPSHOT, 0, KEYEVENTF_KEYUP, 0 ' and finally release the ALT Key ' keybd_event VK_MENU, 0, KEYEVENTF_KEYUP, 0 End Sub Sub SnapPrintScreen() 'To print the entire screen (rather than the current focused window 'programmatically press the ALT key 'keybd_event VK_MENU, 0, 0, 0 ' then press and then release the PrtScreen key keybd_event VK_SNAPSHOT, 0, 0, 0 DoEvents 'keybd_event VK_SNAPSHOT, 0, KEYEVENTF_KEYUP, 0 ' and finally release the ALT Key 'keybd_event VK_MENU, 0, KEYEVENTF_KEYUP, 0 ' The second argument for the keybd_event call is the hardware scan code, ' and, in this case, you could use the value 1. This may have to change ' with Win 2000 ' However, applications should not use this scan code according to Microsoft ' The screen is now captured in the clipboard as a bmp End Sub rsmethurst at UK.EY.COM wrote: >Robert, > >Thanks for the reply. I'm aware of what forms and reports are used for. > >However, in this instance I need to print a screen-dump of a form. - I'll >elaborate on the scenario. > >On these forms (and there are many of them - mostly inherited from a >previous version of this app) there are graphs, combo boxes, datasheets >and drill down sub forms, allowing the user to make multiple (and usually >quite detailed) selections on the data. Once those selections are made >the users (as per the spec and the previous app versions) would like to >print a view of the actual form (i.e their selections and however that has >affected the data/graphs etc) - something which by and large works fine >except for the items I listed below. (The unbound combo's/radio's etc.) >The database (by design - out my hands) contains no reports - only these >screen prints. > >An obviouse work around is to put labels on the offending controls >(populate them with the required data) and make them visible only when >printing, but this seems crude if it would work....in fact it does - >previous versions of this app have shown that. I would just like to know >if there is a quicker way to do this. Printing bound controls is fine (in >fact even unbound controls with a default value set) - from what I can >see, it is the unbound ones without defaults that are problematic. > >Even if the users/project sponsors were open to reports in this instance >(which they are not) I just haven't got the time to go and develop the >number of reports that would duplicate what is on these numerous forms >(some of which are extremely complex) at this stage of the project. > >So, in summary, what I am hoping for, is info about the the most feasible >way to achieve this, given the time constraints I have mentioned above. >(It might be the labels...but I live in hope for a more simple/timely >solution) > >Ryan > > > > > >"Robert L. Stewart" >Sent by: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com >11/03/2004 18:15 >Please respond to Access Developers discussion and problem solving > > > To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com > cc: > Subject: [AccessD] Re: Printing forms > > >Ryan, > >That is because you print reports and not forms. > >Forms are for data entry. Reports are for printing. > >Robert > >At 11:46 AM 3/11/2004 -0600, you wrote: > > >>Date: Thu, 11 Mar 2004 17:42:38 +0000 >>From: rsmethurst at UK.EY.COM >>Subject: [AccessD] Printing forms >>To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving >> >>Message-ID: >> >>Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" >> >>Hi All, >> >>I am having a problem printing forms - specifically it is with combo >> >> >boxes > > >>and radio buttons (usually within frames) which do not print with the >>correct option filled. >> >>i.e two radio buttons and both will print blank, even though the first >> >> >one > > >>is selected. >>and a combo box with have a selected value, but will not display this >>value when the form prints. >> >>The controls are all set to display for both print and screen, and the >>controls are unbound. >> >>TIA >> >>Ryan >> >> > > > > -- Marty Connelly Victoria, B.C. Canada From jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com Thu Mar 18 21:58:45 2004 From: jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com (John W. Colby) Date: Thu, 18 Mar 2004 22:58:45 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] New EMail Address Message-ID: Anyone who has me in their address book should note that my email address has changed to jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com (notice the W). I have turned off jcolby at colbyconsulting.com due to an overwhelming flood of spam, approaching 300 spam emails a day. While my email filter was extremely accurate in getting them out of my inbox there is the occasional (1 in 500 or so) false positives where a good email gets put out in the spam folder. It is getting very hard to find them so it's time to just shut that email box down. Sorry for the inconvenience. John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com From accessd at shaw.ca Thu Mar 18 22:27:52 2004 From: accessd at shaw.ca (Jim Lawrence (AccessD)) Date: Thu, 18 Mar 2004 20:27:52 -0800 Subject: [AccessD] New EMail Address In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Hi John: Do not forget to set up your new address in the contact section of your web site as follows so spam-bots will not be able just extract it. (It does not matter what shows on the screen, it is what is in the page code that the 'bots' search for.) HTH Jim -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of John W. Colby Sent: Thursday, March 18, 2004 7:59 PM To: AccessD Subject: [AccessD] New EMail Address Anyone who has me in their address book should note that my email address has changed to jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com (notice the W). I have turned off jcolby at colbyconsulting.com due to an overwhelming flood of spam, approaching 300 spam emails a day. While my email filter was extremely accurate in getting them out of my inbox there is the occasional (1 in 500 or so) false positives where a good email gets put out in the spam folder. It is getting very hard to find them so it's time to just shut that email box down. Sorry for the inconvenience. John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com Thu Mar 18 22:50:51 2004 From: jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com (John W. Colby) Date: Thu, 18 Mar 2004 23:50:51 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] New EMail Address In-Reply-To: Message-ID: What happens if users have java turned off? I found something out there that turns the clear text into numeric codes, which the browser then turns back into alpha when "read". Does that work? John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Jim Lawrence (AccessD) Sent: Thursday, March 18, 2004 11:28 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] New EMail Address Hi John: Do not forget to set up your new address in the contact section of your web site as follows so spam-bots will not be able just extract it. (It does not matter what shows on the screen, it is what is in the page code that the 'bots' search for.) HTH Jim -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of John W. Colby Sent: Thursday, March 18, 2004 7:59 PM To: AccessD Subject: [AccessD] New EMail Address Anyone who has me in their address book should note that my email address has changed to jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com (notice the W). I have turned off jcolby at colbyconsulting.com due to an overwhelming flood of spam, approaching 300 spam emails a day. While my email filter was extremely accurate in getting them out of my inbox there is the occasional (1 in 500 or so) false positives where a good email gets put out in the spam folder. It is getting very hard to find them so it's time to just shut that email box down. Sorry for the inconvenience. John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com Thu Mar 18 22:58:49 2004 From: jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com (John W. Colby) Date: Thu, 18 Mar 2004 23:58:49 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] New EMail Address In-Reply-To: Message-ID: It is an eerie silence without spam every 30 seconds! Not a single piece since I turned off that address. John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Jim Lawrence (AccessD) Sent: Thursday, March 18, 2004 11:28 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] New EMail Address Hi John: Do not forget to set up your new address in the contact section of your web site as follows so spam-bots will not be able just extract it. (It does not matter what shows on the screen, it is what is in the page code that the 'bots' search for.) HTH Jim -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of John W. Colby Sent: Thursday, March 18, 2004 7:59 PM To: AccessD Subject: [AccessD] New EMail Address Anyone who has me in their address book should note that my email address has changed to jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com (notice the W). I have turned off jcolby at colbyconsulting.com due to an overwhelming flood of spam, approaching 300 spam emails a day. While my email filter was extremely accurate in getting them out of my inbox there is the occasional (1 in 500 or so) false positives where a good email gets put out in the spam folder. It is getting very hard to find them so it's time to just shut that email box down. Sorry for the inconvenience. John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com Thu Mar 18 22:58:49 2004 From: jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com (John W. Colby) Date: Thu, 18 Mar 2004 23:58:49 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] New EMail Address In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Does anyone know if Dreamweaver can do a search and replace throughout all of the html pages of a site do make a change like this? John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Jim Lawrence (AccessD) Sent: Thursday, March 18, 2004 11:28 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] New EMail Address Hi John: Do not forget to set up your new address in the contact section of your web site as follows so spam-bots will not be able just extract it. (It does not matter what shows on the screen, it is what is in the page code that the 'bots' search for.) HTH Jim -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of John W. Colby Sent: Thursday, March 18, 2004 7:59 PM To: AccessD Subject: [AccessD] New EMail Address Anyone who has me in their address book should note that my email address has changed to jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com (notice the W). I have turned off jcolby at colbyconsulting.com due to an overwhelming flood of spam, approaching 300 spam emails a day. While my email filter was extremely accurate in getting them out of my inbox there is the occasional (1 in 500 or so) false positives where a good email gets put out in the spam folder. It is getting very hard to find them so it's time to just shut that email box down. Sorry for the inconvenience. John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From bruce_bruen at mlc.com.au Thu Mar 18 23:08:32 2004 From: bruce_bruen at mlc.com.au (bruce_bruen at mlc.com.au) Date: Fri, 19 Mar 2004 16:08:32 +1100 Subject: [AccessD] New EMail Address Message-ID: Yes, Edit menu - Find and Replace item (believe it or not!!! :-) ) In the Find In box you can select the entire local site Bruce Does anyone know if Dreamweaver can do a search and replace throughout all of the html pages of a site do make a change like this? John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com From andrew.haslett at ilc.gov.au Thu Mar 18 23:16:04 2004 From: andrew.haslett at ilc.gov.au (Haslett, Andrew) Date: Fri, 19 Mar 2004 15:46:04 +1030 Subject: [AccessD] New EMail Address Message-ID: I generally don't put your email address on sites period. If you'd like people to contact you, you could build a custom form which submit the details to you internally. If that's no good and you still want to make your address public, some people often display derivations of the actual address, rather than the exact text - requiring users to adapt the address themselves of course: jcolbyREMOVE at THIScolbyconsulting.com jcolby @ colbyconsulting DOT com Etc. which help to stop crawlers picking up the address. Might be an option? -----Original Message----- From: John W. Colby [mailto:jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com] Sent: Friday, 19 March 2004 3:21 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] New EMail Address What happens if users have java turned off? I found something out there that turns the clear text into numeric codes, which the browser then turns back into alpha when "read". Does that work? John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Jim Lawrence (AccessD) Sent: Thursday, March 18, 2004 11:28 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] New EMail Address Hi John: Do not forget to set up your new address in the contact section of your web site as follows so spam-bots will not be able just extract it. (It does not matter what shows on the screen, it is what is in the page code that the 'bots' search for.) HTH Jim -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of John W. Colby Sent: Thursday, March 18, 2004 7:59 PM To: AccessD Subject: [AccessD] New EMail Address Anyone who has me in their address book should note that my email address has changed to jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com (notice the W). I have turned off jcolby at colbyconsulting.com due to an overwhelming flood of spam, approaching 300 spam emails a day. While my email filter was extremely accurate in getting them out of my inbox there is the occasional (1 in 500 or so) false positives where a good email gets put out in the spam folder. It is getting very hard to find them so it's time to just shut that email box down. Sorry for the inconvenience. John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com IMPORTANT - PLEASE READ ******************** This email and any files transmitted with it are confidential and may contain information protected by law from disclosure. If you have received this message in error, please notify the sender immediately and delete this email from your system. No warranty is given that this email or files, if attached to this email, are free from computer viruses or other defects. They are provided on the basis the user assumes all responsibility for loss, damage or consequence resulting directly or indirectly from their use, whether caused by the negligence of the sender or not. From kathryn at bassett.net Fri Mar 19 00:41:11 2004 From: kathryn at bassett.net (Kathryn Bassett) Date: Thu, 18 Mar 2004 22:41:11 -0800 Subject: [AccessD] New EMail Address In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Did you remember to change your MSN messenger too? IOW, do we who have you in our MSN contacts need to add the new address? -- Kathryn Rhinehart Bassett (Pasadena CA) "Genealogy is my bag" "GH is my soap" kathryn at bassett.net http://bassett.net > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of John W. Colby > Sent: 18 Mar 2004 7:59:PM > To: AccessD > Subject: [AccessD] New EMail Address > > > Anyone who has me in their address book should note that my email address > has changed to jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com (notice the W). I have turned > off jcolby at colbyconsulting.com due to an overwhelming flood of spam, > approaching 300 spam emails a day. While my email filter was extremely > accurate in getting them out of my inbox there is the occasional (1 in 500 > or so) false positives where a good email gets put out in the spam folder. > It is getting very hard to find them so it's time to just shut that email > box down. > > Sorry for the inconvenience. > > John W. Colby > www.ColbyConsulting.com > > > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From stuart at pacific.net.hk Fri Mar 19 02:22:31 2004 From: stuart at pacific.net.hk (Stuart Sanders) Date: Fri, 19 Mar 2004 16:22:31 +0800 Subject: [AccessD] New EMail Address In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <00a101c40d8b$53fbc280$6601a8c0@nbbits01> Another way which foils the vast majority of harvesters (for now) is to use a graphics file with your address and to obscure the email address by using control code. Eg mailto:info@bitshk.c 1m on a web page Translates to info at bitshk.com when clicked on a web page. Eventually harvesters may include this as well, but it would add a lot of overhead to filter each page for email addresses encode this way. Stuart > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of > Jim Lawrence (AccessD) > Sent: Friday, 19 March 2004 12:28 PM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: RE: [AccessD] New EMail Address > > > Hi John: > > Do not forget to set up your new address in the contact > section of your web > site as follows so spam-bots will not be able just extract > it. (It does not > matter what shows on the screen, it is what is in the page > code that the > 'bots' search for.) > > > > HTH > Jim > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of > John W. Colby > Sent: Thursday, March 18, 2004 7:59 PM > To: AccessD > Subject: [AccessD] New EMail Address > > > Anyone who has me in their address book should note that my > email address > has changed to jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com (notice the W). I > have turned > off jcolby at colbyconsulting.com due to an overwhelming flood of spam, > approaching 300 spam emails a day. While my email filter was > extremely > accurate in getting them out of my inbox there is the > occasional (1 in 500 > or so) false positives where a good email gets put out in the > spam folder. > It is getting very hard to find them so it's time to just > shut that email > box down. > > Sorry for the inconvenience. > > John W. Colby > www.ColbyConsulting.com > > > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > From gustav at cactus.dk Fri Mar 19 01:58:55 2004 From: gustav at cactus.dk (Gustav Brock) Date: Fri, 19 Mar 2004 08:58:55 +0100 Subject: [AccessD] Strange results with simple calculation on a form In-Reply-To: <007901c40d25$bb0478c0$1a4e2d3e@jester> References: <000f01c40c73$f596f560$214e2d3e@jester> <1048451652.20040318111843@cactus.dk> <007901c40d25$bb0478c0$1a4e2d3e@jester> Message-ID: <177911540.20040319085855@cactus.dk> Hi Bert-Jan You can do that, of course, but it is preferable to solve a problem by its root. /gustav > Gustav, > thanks for your answer. I keep forgetting textboxes only contain text... i > think i will forget it this time again... ;-) > The maximum is 2 decimals so that is no problem. But since the differences > was at the 15th decimal (although i only tested this 1 time...) I decide to > add round([calculation];2) in the total field. I think this is ok because i > know only numers with 2 decimals are entered.... > Bert-Jan > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Gustav Brock" > To: "Access Developers discussion and problem solving" > > Sent: Thursday, March 18, 2004 11:18 AM > Subject: Re: [AccessD] Strange results with simple calculation on a form >> Hi Bert-Jan >> >> Welcome back. >> >> Unbound textboxes contain text no matter how you format them. >> And decimals may not be exact Doubles and indeed not Singles. >> >> If you can accept a maximum of four decimals, use CCur(txtYourTextbox) >> to convert to Currency before doing any calculation or comparison. >> Else use CDbl() and compare to a max. tolerance of your choice: >> >> If Abs(dblTotal - dblAmount) < 1E-7 Then >> ' Values are equal. >> End If >> >> /gustav >> >> >> > Hi all, >> >> > i was forced to unsubscribe a while ago because i couldn't keep up with you >> > and all the messages... ;-) >> >> > But today a strange thing happened i had to ask you all about. I didn't do a >> > big search on the internet, but searched the accessd archives and didn't >> > find it. It maybe is a well known problem, but here it goes..... >> >> > I have an unbound form where users will type amounts. All the txtboxes' >> > format are set to "standard" and the decimal places is set to 2. And i check >> > on the before_update event of these txtboxes if there are more then 2 >> > decimals, if so, cancel = true. There is an calculated total control >> > (txtTotal) wich has a controlsource like =[txtbox1]+[txtbox2] and so on (in >> > total 12 txtboxes) >> > These txtboxes are used to 'split up' the amount in another txtbox. >> > (txtAmount) >> >> > Before saving i check if txtAmount = txtTotal. When no decimals are used >> > there is no problem, if there are only used decimals in 1 txtbox there is no >> > problem. But if there are used decimals in more txtboxes access will tell me >> > the values are not the same..... although the same values are shown... it >> > turns out there is a difference of: 0.00000000000000710542735!!!!!! >> > (debug.print told me this!) >> >> > When i use the same 'function' in VBA it works fine with the same >> > values....???? >> >> > So it is not a real problem, but it IS something strange... wel to me it >> > is.... >> >> > Thanks in advance. >> >> > Hope to keep up with you this time... ;-) >> >> > Bert-Jan From thevigil at kabelfoon.nl Fri Mar 19 03:54:53 2004 From: thevigil at kabelfoon.nl (Bert-Jan Brinkhuis) Date: Fri, 19 Mar 2004 10:54:53 +0100 Subject: [AccessD] Strange results with simple calculation on a form References: <000f01c40c73$f596f560$214e2d3e@jester><1048451652.20040318111843@cactus.dk><007901c40d25$bb0478c0$1a4e2d3e@jester> <177911540.20040319085855@cactus.dk> Message-ID: <004a01c40d98$42f10ba0$1a4e2d3e@jester> Gustav, yes you are right.... but i there is a deadline.... and when it works i choose the less time consuming solution.... ;-) Bert-Jan ----- Original Message ----- From: "Gustav Brock" To: "Access Developers discussion and problem solving" Sent: Friday, March 19, 2004 8:58 AM Subject: Re: [AccessD] Strange results with simple calculation on a form > Hi Bert-Jan > > You can do that, of course, but it is preferable to solve a problem by its root. > > /gustav > > > > Gustav, > > > thanks for your answer. I keep forgetting textboxes only contain text... i > > think i will forget it this time again... ;-) > > The maximum is 2 decimals so that is no problem. But since the differences > > was at the 15th decimal (although i only tested this 1 time...) I decide to > > add round([calculation];2) in the total field. I think this is ok because i > > know only numers with 2 decimals are entered.... > > > Bert-Jan > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: "Gustav Brock" > > To: "Access Developers discussion and problem solving" > > > > Sent: Thursday, March 18, 2004 11:18 AM > > Subject: Re: [AccessD] Strange results with simple calculation on a form > > > >> Hi Bert-Jan > >> > >> Welcome back. > >> > >> Unbound textboxes contain text no matter how you format them. > >> And decimals may not be exact Doubles and indeed not Singles. > >> > >> If you can accept a maximum of four decimals, use CCur(txtYourTextbox) > >> to convert to Currency before doing any calculation or comparison. > >> Else use CDbl() and compare to a max. tolerance of your choice: > >> > >> If Abs(dblTotal - dblAmount) < 1E-7 Then > >> ' Values are equal. > >> End If > >> > >> /gustav > >> > >> > >> > Hi all, > >> > >> > i was forced to unsubscribe a while ago because i couldn't keep up with you > >> > and all the messages... ;-) > >> > >> > But today a strange thing happened i had to ask you all about. I didn't do a > >> > big search on the internet, but searched the accessd archives and didn't > >> > find it. It maybe is a well known problem, but here it goes..... > >> > >> > I have an unbound form where users will type amounts. All the txtboxes' > >> > format are set to "standard" and the decimal places is set to 2. And i check > >> > on the before_update event of these txtboxes if there are more then 2 > >> > decimals, if so, cancel = true. There is an calculated total control > >> > (txtTotal) wich has a controlsource like =[txtbox1]+[txtbox2] and so on (in > >> > total 12 txtboxes) > >> > These txtboxes are used to 'split up' the amount in another txtbox. > >> > (txtAmount) > >> > >> > Before saving i check if txtAmount = txtTotal. When no decimals are used > >> > there is no problem, if there are only used decimals in 1 txtbox there is no > >> > problem. But if there are used decimals in more txtboxes access will tell me > >> > the values are not the same..... although the same values are shown... it > >> > turns out there is a difference of: 0.00000000000000710542735!!!!!! > >> > (debug.print told me this!) > >> > >> > When i use the same 'function' in VBA it works fine with the same > >> > values....???? > >> > >> > So it is not a real problem, but it IS something strange... wel to me it > >> > is.... > >> > >> > Thanks in advance. > >> > >> > Hope to keep up with you this time... ;-) > >> > >> > Bert-Jan > > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From Subscriptions at servicexp.com Fri Mar 19 06:18:17 2004 From: Subscriptions at servicexp.com (Robert Gracie) Date: Fri, 19 Mar 2004 07:18:17 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] zip/unzip In-Reply-To: Message-ID: John, I just can't wait....I need to know....:-) How did you reference the .dll in Access. Access (A2K) Keeps Telling me it can't reference it.??? Robert Gracie www.servicexp.com -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of John W. Colby Sent: Thursday, March 18, 2004 9:02 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] zip/unzip OK, I got it working. It was page faulting because I wasn't setting up required properties before trying the zip, little things like the name of the zip file, the name of the object to zip etc. Once I set those properties, it works fine. The zipped file can be read by Winzip. Cool stuff and will be part of the next framework demo article I'm working on tonight. >Ah, that jiggles some demagnetized memory bits! You my dear friend are OLD it would seem. Are you by any chance referring to core memory? I actually worked on computers with core memory back in my Navy days. Massive Sperry Univac 642/B refrigerator sized "mainframes", 36 bit with 32 kwords of core memory and a lightening fast 4 microsecond instruction time (256 k instructions / second). John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of John W. Colby Sent: Thursday, March 18, 2004 6:29 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] zip/unzip I put them in System32 and the app page faults and closes Access if I try and run the zip stuff/ -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of John Bartow Sent: Thursday, March 18, 2004 5:11 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] zip/unzip Ah, that jiggles some demagnetized memory bits! I think thats the ticket, John -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From HollisVJ at pgdp.usec.com Fri Mar 19 06:55:11 2004 From: HollisVJ at pgdp.usec.com (Hollis,Virginia) Date: Fri, 19 Mar 2004 06:55:11 -0600 Subject: [AccessD] Don't want a required entry Message-ID: <618EB4D6DDCDD3119B0A00508B6FD37A0CB0D380@cntexchange.pgdp.usec.com> What makes a table require an entry? I do not have any of the fields in the table set to Required. When I set up the tables, I used the Enforce Referential Integrity - I removed this thinking it was the problem, but it did not make a difference. For example, when I enter a request, I enter a requestor, but do not want to enter the name of the buyer because the requestor will not know who it will be assigned to. It will not let me move to another record unless I enter the name of the buyer. Any ideas? Virginia From HollisVJ at pgdp.usec.com Fri Mar 19 06:56:58 2004 From: HollisVJ at pgdp.usec.com (Hollis,Virginia) Date: Fri, 19 Mar 2004 06:56:58 -0600 Subject: [AccessD] Set up tables - Please Help Message-ID: <618EB4D6DDCDD3119B0A00508B6FD37A0CB0D381@cntexchange.pgdp.usec.com> Drew, Everything I send you is returned. Virginia Sorry list for the Offline post. -----Original Message----- From: DWUTKA at marlow.com [mailto:DWUTKA at marlow.com] Sent: Tuesday, March 16, 2004 1:59 PM To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: RE: [AccessD] Set up tables - Please Help I think I really need to take a look at what you are trying to do. Can you send it to me offlist? I won't have a chance to look at it until later this week, or on the weekend. Drew -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Hollis,Virginia Sent: Tuesday, March 16, 2004 6:28 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: [AccessD] Set up tables - Please Help This is all taken from a hard copy of the current request form. The buyer completes the vendor request form with the vendor information. The form is used to add the new vendor information into a main database. The form provides the vendors name, billing information, type of business, etc. It does not list any items the company will buy from this vendor. Once the vendor information is added, then the company will issue POs, contracts to the new vendor (not part of this database). They just want to track the requests from the buyers. The form contains a lot of information about the vendor. When I create all the tables and join them to create a form for entering the information, it either comes up blank (no records) or I can't add any new records, one try it kept knocking my query out - I think because it was too long. Virginia -----Original Message----- From: DWUTKA at marlow.com [mailto:DWUTKA at marlow.com] Sent: Monday, March 15, 2004 3:45 PM To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: RE: [AccessD] Set up tables - Please Help Virginia, I think you are confusing Vendor with Purchase Order. A Vendor is just a peice of a Purchase Order, not the other way around. Drew -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Hollis,Virginia Sent: Saturday, March 13, 2004 10:46 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: [AccessD] Set up tables - Please Help tbl_Vendor contains all the data for the vendor; address, company name, etc. tbl_VendorMain could really be named tbl_RequestMain. tbl_VendorMain is where I thought I would store the combination of the data - VendorID, ContactID, BuyerID, RequestorID, DateRequested. -----Original Message----- From: Susan Harkins [mailto:ssharkins at bellsouth.net] Sent: Saturday, March 13, 2004 10:38 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: [AccessD] Set up tables - Please Help What's the difference between tbl_Vendor and tbl_VendorMain? Susan H. I have one table for each - tbl_Buyer, tbl_Contacts, tbl_Requestor, tbl_TypeBusiness, tbl_Vendor, tbl_VendorMain, tbl_Accounts. Tables buyer, vendor contacts, requestor store just the typical name, phone number, etc. -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From paul.hartland at fsmail.net Fri Mar 19 07:06:37 2004 From: paul.hartland at fsmail.net (paul.hartland at fsmail.net) Date: Fri, 19 Mar 2004 14:06:37 +0100 (CET) Subject: [AccessD] Don't want a required entry Message-ID: <28908203.1079701597208.JavaMail.www@wwinf3002> Virginia, Allow Zero Length may be your problem, try setting this to Yes. Paul Message date : Mar 19 2004, 12:57 PM >From : "Hollis,Virginia" To : "'accessd at databaseadvisors.com'" Copy to : Subject : [AccessD] Don't want a required entry What makes a table require an entry? I do not have any of the fields in the table set to Required. When I set up the tables, I used the Enforce Referential Integrity - I removed this thinking it was the problem, but it did not make a difference. For example, when I enter a request, I enter a requestor, but do not want to enter the name of the buyer because the requestor will not know who it will be assigned to. It will not let me move to another record unless I enter the name of the buyer. Any ideas? Virginia -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com Freeserve AnyTime - HALF PRICE for the first 3 months - Save ?7.50 a month www.freeserve.com/anytime From jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com Fri Mar 19 07:19:52 2004 From: jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com (John W. Colby) Date: Fri, 19 Mar 2004 08:19:52 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] zip/unzip In-Reply-To: Message-ID: I don't reference it at all, the zip / unzip code just uses the dll. It's all magic to me. The code for a form that uses it with a button that zips a file (hard coded filename): Option Compare Database Option Explicit 'Create a variable to hold the zip class Dim fclsZip As dclsZip Private Sub Form_Close() 'cleanup the pointer to the class Set fclsZip = Nothing End Sub Private Sub Form_Open(Cancel As Integer) 'setup a pointer to the class Set fclsZip = New dclsZip End Sub Private Sub cmdZipTheFile_Click() On Error GoTo Err_cmdZipTheFile_Click fclsZip.ZipFile = CurrentProject.Path & "\" & "TextZipDemoCtlClassV2.Zip" fclsZip.AddFileSpec CurrentProject.Path & "\" & "DemoCtlClassV2.mdb" fclsZip.Zip Exit_cmdZipTheFile_Click: Exit Sub Err_cmdZipTheFile_Click: MsgBox Err.Description, , "Error in Sub Form_frmDemoZip.cmdZipTheFile_Click" Resume Exit_cmdZipTheFile_Click Resume 0 '.FOR TROUBLESHOOTING End Sub That code works. If you fail to specify the "ZipFile" or the "AddFileSpec" the application page faults. There is NO error handling or checking of any kind inside the zip code. 8-( John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Robert Gracie Sent: Friday, March 19, 2004 7:18 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] zip/unzip John, I just can't wait....I need to know....:-) How did you reference the .dll in Access. Access (A2K) Keeps Telling me it can't reference it.??? Robert Gracie www.servicexp.com -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of John W. Colby Sent: Thursday, March 18, 2004 9:02 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] zip/unzip OK, I got it working. It was page faulting because I wasn't setting up required properties before trying the zip, little things like the name of the zip file, the name of the object to zip etc. Once I set those properties, it works fine. The zipped file can be read by Winzip. Cool stuff and will be part of the next framework demo article I'm working on tonight. >Ah, that jiggles some demagnetized memory bits! You my dear friend are OLD it would seem. Are you by any chance referring to core memory? I actually worked on computers with core memory back in my Navy days. Massive Sperry Univac 642/B refrigerator sized "mainframes", 36 bit with 32 kwords of core memory and a lightening fast 4 microsecond instruction time (256 k instructions / second). John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of John W. Colby Sent: Thursday, March 18, 2004 6:29 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] zip/unzip I put them in System32 and the app page faults and closes Access if I try and run the zip stuff/ -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of John Bartow Sent: Thursday, March 18, 2004 5:11 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] zip/unzip Ah, that jiggles some demagnetized memory bits! I think thats the ticket, John -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From HollisVJ at pgdp.usec.com Fri Mar 19 07:34:44 2004 From: HollisVJ at pgdp.usec.com (Hollis,Virginia) Date: Fri, 19 Mar 2004 07:34:44 -0600 Subject: [AccessD] Don't want a required entry Message-ID: <618EB4D6DDCDD3119B0A00508B6FD37A0CB0D385@cntexchange.pgdp.usec.com> I set the Allow Zero Length to Yes & it still requires an entry. Do I have to do this for every table? -----Original Message----- From: paul.hartland at fsmail.net [mailto:paul.hartland at fsmail.net] Sent: Friday, March 19, 2004 7:07 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Don't want a required entry Virginia, Allow Zero Length may be your problem, try setting this to Yes. Paul Message date : Mar 19 2004, 12:57 PM >From : "Hollis,Virginia" To : "'accessd at databaseadvisors.com'" Copy to : Subject : [AccessD] Don't want a required entry What makes a table require an entry? I do not have any of the fields in the table set to Required. When I set up the tables, I used the Enforce Referential Integrity - I removed this thinking it was the problem, but it did not make a difference. For example, when I enter a request, I enter a requestor, but do not want to enter the name of the buyer because the requestor will not know who it will be assigned to. It will not let me move to another record unless I enter the name of the buyer. Any ideas? Virginia -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com Freeserve AnyTime - HALF PRICE for the first 3 months - Save ?7.50 a month www.freeserve.com/anytime -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From paul.hartland at fsmail.net Fri Mar 19 07:40:34 2004 From: paul.hartland at fsmail.net (paul.hartland at fsmail.net) Date: Fri, 19 Mar 2004 14:40:34 +0100 (CET) Subject: [AccessD] Don't want a required entry Message-ID: <26289198.1079703634065.JavaMail.www@wwinf3002> with out knowing more about the application etc I can't say Message date : Mar 19 2004, 01:38 PM >From : "Hollis,Virginia" To : "'Access Developers discussion and problem solving'" Copy to : Subject : RE: [AccessD] Don't want a required entry I set the Allow Zero Length to Yes & it still requires an entry. Do I have to do this for every table? -----Original Message----- From: paul.hartland at fsmail.net [mailto:paul.hartland at fsmail.net] Sent: Friday, March 19, 2004 7:07 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Don't want a required entry Virginia, Allow Zero Length may be your problem, try setting this to Yes. Paul Message date : Mar 19 2004, 12:57 PM >From : "Hollis,Virginia" To : "'accessd at databaseadvisors.com'" Copy to : Subject : [AccessD] Don't want a required entry What makes a table require an entry? I do not have any of the fields in the table set to Required. When I set up the tables, I used the Enforce Referential Integrity - I removed this thinking it was the problem, but it did not make a difference. For example, when I enter a request, I enter a requestor, but do not want to enter the name of the buyer because the requestor will not know who it will be assigned to. It will not let me move to another record unless I enter the name of the buyer. Any ideas? Virginia -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com Freeserve AnyTime - HALF PRICE for the first 3 months - Save ?7.50 a month www.freeserve.com/anytime -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com Freeserve AnyTime - HALF PRICE for the first 3 months - Save ?7.50 a month www.freeserve.com/anytime From R.Griffiths at bury.gov.uk Fri Mar 19 07:42:41 2004 From: R.Griffiths at bury.gov.uk (Griffiths, Richard) Date: Fri, 19 Mar 2004 13:42:41 -0000 Subject: [AccessD] zip/unzip Message-ID: Quick question - do you if this zip utility can span disks? -----Original Message----- From: John W. Colby [mailto:jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com] Sent: 19 March 2004 13:20 To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] zip/unzip I don't reference it at all, the zip / unzip code just uses the dll. It's all magic to me. The code for a form that uses it with a button that zips a file (hard coded filename): Option Compare Database Option Explicit 'Create a variable to hold the zip class Dim fclsZip As dclsZip Private Sub Form_Close() 'cleanup the pointer to the class Set fclsZip = Nothing End Sub Private Sub Form_Open(Cancel As Integer) 'setup a pointer to the class Set fclsZip = New dclsZip End Sub Private Sub cmdZipTheFile_Click() On Error GoTo Err_cmdZipTheFile_Click fclsZip.ZipFile = CurrentProject.Path & "\" & "TextZipDemoCtlClassV2.Zip" fclsZip.AddFileSpec CurrentProject.Path & "\" & "DemoCtlClassV2.mdb" fclsZip.Zip Exit_cmdZipTheFile_Click: Exit Sub Err_cmdZipTheFile_Click: MsgBox Err.Description, , "Error in Sub Form_frmDemoZip.cmdZipTheFile_Click" Resume Exit_cmdZipTheFile_Click Resume 0 '.FOR TROUBLESHOOTING End Sub That code works. If you fail to specify the "ZipFile" or the "AddFileSpec" the application page faults. There is NO error handling or checking of any kind inside the zip code. 8-( John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Robert Gracie Sent: Friday, March 19, 2004 7:18 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] zip/unzip John, I just can't wait....I need to know....:-) How did you reference the .dll in Access. Access (A2K) Keeps Telling me it can't reference it.??? Robert Gracie www.servicexp.com -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of John W. Colby Sent: Thursday, March 18, 2004 9:02 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] zip/unzip OK, I got it working. It was page faulting because I wasn't setting up required properties before trying the zip, little things like the name of the zip file, the name of the object to zip etc. Once I set those properties, it works fine. The zipped file can be read by Winzip. Cool stuff and will be part of the next framework demo article I'm working on tonight. >Ah, that jiggles some demagnetized memory bits! You my dear friend are OLD it would seem. Are you by any chance referring to core memory? I actually worked on computers with core memory back in my Navy days. Massive Sperry Univac 642/B refrigerator sized "mainframes", 36 bit with 32 kwords of core memory and a lightening fast 4 microsecond instruction time (256 k instructions / second). John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of John W. Colby Sent: Thursday, March 18, 2004 6:29 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] zip/unzip I put them in System32 and the app page faults and closes Access if I try and run the zip stuff/ -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of John Bartow Sent: Thursday, March 18, 2004 5:11 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] zip/unzip Ah, that jiggles some demagnetized memory bits! I think thats the ticket, John -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From Bryan_Carbonnell at cbc.ca Fri Mar 19 07:48:09 2004 From: Bryan_Carbonnell at cbc.ca (Bryan Carbonnell) Date: Fri, 19 Mar 2004 08:48:09 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Cascading Combos Message-ID: Actually the ()'s and ""'s are mine for the e-mail (Don't know why I put both) . The actual SQL Statement was a direct copy and paste from the SQL view if the QBE grid. Bryan Carbonnell bryan_carbonnell at cbc.ca >>> mikedorism at adelphia.net 18-Mar-04 4:23:45 PM >>> Now, as soon as I try to change the rowsource of cboReason to filter based on cboReasonType ("SELECT ReasonID, ReasonType_FK, ReasonDescription, ReasonDiscontinued FROM tblReason WHERE (tblReason.ReasonType_FK=[Forms]![sfmEditIncidentDetails]![cboReasonType]);" ) I end up with blanks in both cboReason and cboReasonType. What am I missing? You are missing the fact that you referred to the form inside the quotes instead of outside. Try... "SELECT ReasonID, ReasonType_FK, ReasonDescription, ReasonDiscontinued FROM tblReason WHERE(tblReason.ReasonType_FK=" & [Forms]![sfmEditIncidentDetails]![cboReasonType]) Doris Manning Database Administrator Hargrove Inc. www.hargroveinc.com -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Bryan Carbonnell Sent: Thursday, March 18, 2004 3:10 PM To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: [AccessD] Cascading Combos I'm stuck and need some help. I think I've been thinking and working on this problem too long. I can't see what I'm missing. I have 3 tables: tblIncident ----------- IncidentID (AutoNum PK) IncidentReasonID_FK (Long) .... tblReason ---------- ReasonID (AutoNum PK) ReasonDescription (Text) ReasonTypeID_FK (Long) ReasonDiscontinued (Boolean) tblReasonType --------------- ReasonTypeID (AutoNum PK) ReasonTypeDescription (Text) ReasonTypeDiscontinued (Boolean) tblIncident is a 1-M with tblReason on ReasonID_FK=ReasonID tblReason is a M-1 with tblReasonType one ReasonTypeID_FK=ReasonTypeID What I am trying to do is create cascading combos on an edit only form. No additions or deletions. Just editing The form is based on a query that pulls the data from tblIncident cboReasonType is the ReasonType and is not bound bboReason is Limited to only those Reasons that have a ReasonTypeID_FK = cboReasonType and is bound to IncidentReasonID_FK So Far So good. Now I have cboReasonType's rowsource to be a query that includes all of the ReasonTypes (SELECT ReasonTypeID, ReasonTypeDescription, ReasonTypeDiscontinued FROM tblReasonType;) cboReason's rowsource is a query with the SQL "SELECT ReasonID, ReasonType_FK, ReasonDescription, ReasonDiscontinued FROM tblReason;" In the Current Event of the forms I have: 'Set the Reason Type cboReasonType = cboReason.Column(1) So as I navigate to the various records, I get the value of the RecordType Combo correct. Now, as soon as I try to change the rowsource of cboReason to filter based on cboReasonType ("SELECT ReasonID, ReasonType_FK, ReasonDescription, ReasonDiscontinued FROM tblReason WHERE (tblReason.ReasonType_FK=[Forms]![sfmEditIncidentDetails]![cboReasonType]);" ) I end up with blanks in both cboReason and cboReasonType. What am I missing? Is it that cboReason's RowSource is dependant on cboReasonType's value, which is in turn based on cboReason's value? If that is the problem, and now that I have typed this all out, I think it is, how the heck do I make it do what I want?? From Bryan_Carbonnell at cbc.ca Fri Mar 19 07:52:33 2004 From: Bryan_Carbonnell at cbc.ca (Bryan Carbonnell) Date: Fri, 19 Mar 2004 08:52:33 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Cascading Combos Message-ID: The second combo, cboReason, is a bound control. So if I set it to Null, I lose the value that is entered. Not the preferred thing to do :)) Bryan Carbonnell bryan_carbonnell at cbc.ca >>> dmcafee at pacbell.net 18-Mar-04 4:33:17 PM >>> Why not set the rowsource of the second combobox on enter? cbo2ndBox_OnEnter() me.cbo2ndBox.rowsource = "Select fields from table where foreignKey = " & me.cbo1stBox.column(0) End sub then on enter or after update of cbo1, clear cbo2 me.cbo2ndBox = null -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Bryan Carbonnell Sent: Thursday, March 18, 2004 12:10 PM To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: [AccessD] Cascading Combos I'm stuck and need some help. I think I've been thinking and working on this problem too long. I can't see what I'm missing. I have 3 tables: tblIncident ----------- IncidentID (AutoNum PK) IncidentReasonID_FK (Long) .... tblReason ---------- ReasonID (AutoNum PK) ReasonDescription (Text) ReasonTypeID_FK (Long) ReasonDiscontinued (Boolean) tblReasonType --------------- ReasonTypeID (AutoNum PK) ReasonTypeDescription (Text) ReasonTypeDiscontinued (Boolean) tblIncident is a 1-M with tblReason on ReasonID_FK=ReasonID tblReason is a M-1 with tblReasonType one ReasonTypeID_FK=ReasonTypeID What I am trying to do is create cascading combos on an edit only form. No additions or deletions. Just editing The form is based on a query that pulls the data from tblIncident cboReasonType is the ReasonType and is not bound bboReason is Limited to only those Reasons that have a ReasonTypeID_FK = cboReasonType and is bound to IncidentReasonID_FK So Far So good. Now I have cboReasonType's rowsource to be a query that includes all of the ReasonTypes (SELECT ReasonTypeID, ReasonTypeDescription, ReasonTypeDiscontinued FROM tblReasonType;) cboReason's rowsource is a query with the SQL "SELECT ReasonID, ReasonType_FK, ReasonDescription, ReasonDiscontinued FROM tblReason;" In the Current Event of the forms I have: 'Set the Reason Type cboReasonType = cboReason.Column(1) So as I navigate to the various records, I get the value of the RecordType Combo correct. Now, as soon as I try to change the rowsource of cboReason to filter based on cboReasonType ("SELECT ReasonID, ReasonType_FK, ReasonDescription, ReasonDiscontinued FROM tblReason WHERE (tblReason.ReasonType_FK=[Forms]![sfmEditIncidentDetails]![cboReasonType]);" ) I end up with blanks in both cboReason and cboReasonType. What am I missing? Is it that cboReason's RowSource is dependant on cboReasonType's value, which is in turn based on cboReason's value? If that is the problem, and now that I have typed this all out, I think it is, how the heck do I make it do what I want?? Thanks, Bryan Carbonnell bryan_carbonnell at cbc.ca From Bryan_Carbonnell at cbc.ca Fri Mar 19 07:54:41 2004 From: Bryan_Carbonnell at cbc.ca (Bryan Carbonnell) Date: Fri, 19 Mar 2004 08:54:41 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] OT Wrist/Arm Pain - was Short Date Input Mask quest ion Message-ID: OH NO!!!!! I though Fluffy and Fang liked to lounge over in the Lounge?? Now you're bringing them here!??!?!?!? Run!! Hide!!! Lock up your children!!! Bryan Carbonnell bryan_carbonnell at cbc.ca >>> cfoust at infostatsystems.com 18-Mar-04 4:44:29 PM >>> Grrrr! All right, the gloves are off! I'm sending for the Access enforcers, Fluffy and Fang, to come and break your legs! Charlotte Foust -----Original Message----- From: David McAfee (Home) [mailto:dmcafee at pacbell.net] Sent: Thursday, March 18, 2004 1:37 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] OT Wrist/Arm Pain - was Short Date Input Mask quest ion Dan, she got mad because someone made fun of her when typing on a split keyboard. They said she looked like she was doing the chicken dance with her elbows out there like open doors :P Who hurt you Charlotte? :) (Is it Friday yet?) From john at winhaven.net Fri Mar 19 07:55:28 2004 From: john at winhaven.net (John Bartow) Date: Fri, 19 Mar 2004 07:55:28 -0600 Subject: [AccessD] zip/unzip In-Reply-To: Message-ID: :o) -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of John W. Colby Sent: Thursday, March 18, 2004 8:02 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] zip/unzip OK, I got it working. It was page faulting because I wasn't setting up required properties before trying the zip, little things like the name of the zip file, the name of the object to zip etc. Once I set those properties, it works fine. The zipped file can be read by Winzip. Cool stuff and will be part of the next framework demo article I'm working on tonight. >Ah, that jiggles some demagnetized memory bits! You my dear friend are OLD it would seem. Are you by any chance referring to core memory? I actually worked on computers with core memory back in my Navy days. Massive Sperry Univac 642/B refrigerator sized "mainframes", 36 bit with 32 kwords of core memory and a lightening fast 4 microsecond instruction time (256 k instructions / second). John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com From my.lists at verizon.net Fri Mar 19 08:59:30 2004 From: my.lists at verizon.net (Francisco H Tapia) Date: Fri, 19 Mar 2004 06:59:30 -0800 Subject: [AccessD] New EMail Address In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <405B0AD2.8080001@verizon.net> So how many of these are you sending out? John W. Colby wrote: >Anyone who has me in their address book should note that my email address >has changed to jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com (notice the W). I have turned >off jcolby at colbyconsulting.com due to an overwhelming flood of spam, >approaching 300 spam emails a day. While my email filter was extremely >accurate in getting them out of my inbox there is the occasional (1 in 500 >or so) false positives where a good email gets put out in the spam folder. >It is getting very hard to find them so it's time to just shut that email >box down. > >Sorry for the inconvenience. > > -- -Francisco From rl_stewart at highstream.net Fri Mar 19 09:15:01 2004 From: rl_stewart at highstream.net (Robert L. Stewart) Date: Fri, 19 Mar 2004 09:15:01 -0600 Subject: [AccessD] Re: Mixed Versions In-Reply-To: <200403190205.i2J25VM10881@databaseadvisors.com> Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20040319091414.029fbe18@pop3.highstream.net> Rocky, He should be able to run it under 2002 with out any conversion. He just cannot change any of the programming objects. Robert At 08:05 PM 3/18/2004 -0600, you wrote: >Date: Thu, 18 Mar 2004 17:39:12 -0800 >From: "Rocky Smolin - Beach Access Software" >Subject: [AccessD] Mixed Versions >To: >Message-ID: <01fb01c40d52$fb8ba990$6601a8c0 at HAL9002> >Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" > >Dear List: > >I have a client running one of my old A97 apps FE and BE. He wants me to >supply an FE that will run on a machine with AXP or A2003 > >I have A2K. If I convert my A97 FE to A2K and make an mde out of it, will >the mde run on a box with AXP and/or A2003 and be able to read/write the >A97 BE? > >MTIA, > >Rocky Smolin >Beach Access Software From jmhla at earthlink.net Fri Mar 19 09:21:42 2004 From: jmhla at earthlink.net (Joe Hecht) Date: Fri, 19 Mar 2004 07:21:42 -0800 Subject: [AccessD] Spam Filter was New EMail Address In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <000001c40dc5$e5b04770$6501a8c0@delllaptop> I have been using Mail Washer as a spam filter and successfully reduced my spam load. You download your e-mail into a new window. You can go in and mark the spam and it gets bounced back as a bad address. You can either mark 1 address or an entire domain as spam. Click one button to process the mail and it then downloads into your e-mail client. JOE HECHT LOS ANGELES CA -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of John W. Colby Sent: Thursday, March 18, 2004 7:59 PM To: AccessD Subject: [AccessD] New EMail Address Anyone who has me in their address book should note that my email address has changed to jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com (notice the W). I have turned off jcolby at colbyconsulting.com due to an overwhelming flood of spam, approaching 300 spam emails a day. While my email filter was extremely accurate in getting them out of my inbox there is the occasional (1 in 500 or so) false positives where a good email gets put out in the spam folder. It is getting very hard to find them so it's time to just shut that email box down. Sorry for the inconvenience. John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From bchacc at san.rr.com Fri Mar 19 09:28:07 2004 From: bchacc at san.rr.com (Rocky Smolin - Beach Access Software) Date: Fri, 19 Mar 2004 07:28:07 -0800 Subject: [AccessD] Re: Mixed Versions References: <5.1.0.14.2.20040319091414.029fbe18@pop3.highstream.net> Message-ID: <002501c40dc6$c8014a70$6601a8c0@HAL9002> Robert: Thanks. Do you know about A2003? Can an mde created under A2000 run under A2003 and see an A97 back end? MTIA, Rocky Smolin Beach Access Software http://www.e-z-mrp.com ----- Original Message ----- From: "Robert L. Stewart" To: Sent: Friday, March 19, 2004 7:15 AM Subject: [AccessD] Re: Mixed Versions > Rocky, > > He should be able to run it under 2002 with out any conversion. > He just cannot change any of the programming objects. > > Robert > > At 08:05 PM 3/18/2004 -0600, you wrote: > >Date: Thu, 18 Mar 2004 17:39:12 -0800 > >From: "Rocky Smolin - Beach Access Software" > >Subject: [AccessD] Mixed Versions > >To: > >Message-ID: <01fb01c40d52$fb8ba990$6601a8c0 at HAL9002> > >Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" > > > >Dear List: > > > >I have a client running one of my old A97 apps FE and BE. He wants me to > >supply an FE that will run on a machine with AXP or A2003 > > > >I have A2K. If I convert my A97 FE to A2K and make an mde out of it, will > >the mde run on a box with AXP and/or A2003 and be able to read/write the > >A97 BE? > > > >MTIA, > > > >Rocky Smolin > >Beach Access Software > > > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > From my.lists at verizon.net Fri Mar 19 09:37:24 2004 From: my.lists at verizon.net (Francisco H Tapia) Date: Fri, 19 Mar 2004 07:37:24 -0800 Subject: [AccessD] Spam Filter was New EMail Address In-Reply-To: <000001c40dc5$e5b04770$6501a8c0@delllaptop> References: <000001c40dc5$e5b04770$6501a8c0@delllaptop> Message-ID: <405B13B4.5000803@verizon.net> Spam and Email filtering is a serious and interesting topic, I'm moving the thread to the dba-tech list where it can continue to grow :), Thanks, Joe Hecht wrote: >I have been using Mail Washer as a spam filter and successfully reduced >my spam load. > >You download your e-mail into a new window. You can go in and mark the >spam and it gets bounced back as a bad address. You can either mark 1 >address or an entire domain as spam. Click one button to process the >mail and it then downloads into your e-mail client. > > >JOE HECHT >LOS ANGELES CA > > >-----Original Message----- >From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com >[mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of John W. Colby >Sent: Thursday, March 18, 2004 7:59 PM >To: AccessD >Subject: [AccessD] New EMail Address > >Anyone who has me in their address book should note that my email >address >has changed to jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com (notice the W). I have >turned >off jcolby at colbyconsulting.com due to an overwhelming flood of spam, >approaching 300 spam emails a day. While my email filter was extremely >accurate in getting them out of my inbox there is the occasional (1 in >500 >or so) false positives where a good email gets put out in the spam >folder. >It is getting very hard to find them so it's time to just shut that >email >box down. > >Sorry for the inconvenience. > >John W. Colby >www.ColbyConsulting.com > > > > -- -Francisco From lister at actuarial-files.com Fri Mar 19 09:43:14 2004 From: lister at actuarial-files.com (Ralf Lister) Date: Fri, 19 Mar 2004 11:43:14 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] New EMail Address References: Message-ID: <00b801c40dc9$4c3a4010$66976bce@ralf> Hello Jim, I'm not an expert in JavaScript, but for me it seems that the JavaScript has an "user" extra, or? After the "@" there should come "+ site + '\">');" in this very line. Saludos desde Bolivia Ralf ----- Original Message ----- From: "Jim Lawrence (AccessD)" To: "Access Developers discussion and problem solving" Sent: Friday, March 19, 2004 12:27 AM Subject: RE: [AccessD] New EMail Address > Hi John: > > Do not forget to set up your new address in the contact section of your web > site as follows so spam-bots will not be able just extract it. (It does not > matter what shows on the screen, it is what is in the page code that the > 'bots' search for.) > > > > HTH > Jim > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of John W. Colby > Sent: Thursday, March 18, 2004 7:59 PM > To: AccessD > Subject: [AccessD] New EMail Address > > > Anyone who has me in their address book should note that my email address > has changed to jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com (notice the W). I have turned > off jcolby at colbyconsulting.com due to an overwhelming flood of spam, > approaching 300 spam emails a day. While my email filter was extremely > accurate in getting them out of my inbox there is the occasional (1 in 500 > or so) false positives where a good email gets put out in the spam folder. > It is getting very hard to find them so it's time to just shut that email > box down. > > Sorry for the inconvenience. > > John W. Colby > www.ColbyConsulting.com > > > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > From accessd at shaw.ca Fri Mar 19 09:48:13 2004 From: accessd at shaw.ca (Jim Lawrence (AccessD)) Date: Fri, 19 Mar 2004 07:48:13 -0800 Subject: [AccessD] New EMail Address In-Reply-To: Message-ID: John: I have not seen that one or heard comments on the same, for that purpose... do you mean something like: %74%79%72%78%32%67%79%66%89 ? Why would anyone turn java script off. Most pages on the web would simple not work. Jim -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of John W. Colby Sent: Thursday, March 18, 2004 8:51 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] New EMail Address What happens if users have java turned off? I found something out there that turns the clear text into numeric codes, which the browser then turns back into alpha when "read". Does that work? John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Jim Lawrence (AccessD) Sent: Thursday, March 18, 2004 11:28 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] New EMail Address Hi John: Do not forget to set up your new address in the contact section of your web site as follows so spam-bots will not be able just extract it. (It does not matter what shows on the screen, it is what is in the page code that the 'bots' search for.) HTH Jim -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of John W. Colby Sent: Thursday, March 18, 2004 7:59 PM To: AccessD Subject: [AccessD] New EMail Address Anyone who has me in their address book should note that my email address has changed to jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com (notice the W). I have turned off jcolby at colbyconsulting.com due to an overwhelming flood of spam, approaching 300 spam emails a day. While my email filter was extremely accurate in getting them out of my inbox there is the occasional (1 in 500 or so) false positives where a good email gets put out in the spam folder. It is getting very hard to find them so it's time to just shut that email box down. Sorry for the inconvenience. John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From accessd at shaw.ca Fri Mar 19 09:49:59 2004 From: accessd at shaw.ca (Jim Lawrence (AccessD)) Date: Fri, 19 Mar 2004 07:49:59 -0800 Subject: [AccessD] New EMail Address In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Hi John: Yes, it can; an entire web site at once. Jim -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of John W. Colby Sent: Thursday, March 18, 2004 8:59 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] New EMail Address Does anyone know if Dreamweaver can do a search and replace throughout all of the html pages of a site do make a change like this? John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Jim Lawrence (AccessD) Sent: Thursday, March 18, 2004 11:28 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] New EMail Address Hi John: Do not forget to set up your new address in the contact section of your web site as follows so spam-bots will not be able just extract it. (It does not matter what shows on the screen, it is what is in the page code that the 'bots' search for.) HTH Jim -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of John W. Colby Sent: Thursday, March 18, 2004 7:59 PM To: AccessD Subject: [AccessD] New EMail Address Anyone who has me in their address book should note that my email address has changed to jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com (notice the W). I have turned off jcolby at colbyconsulting.com due to an overwhelming flood of spam, approaching 300 spam emails a day. While my email filter was extremely accurate in getting them out of my inbox there is the occasional (1 in 500 or so) false positives where a good email gets put out in the spam folder. It is getting very hard to find them so it's time to just shut that email box down. Sorry for the inconvenience. John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From bchacc at san.rr.com Fri Mar 19 09:51:46 2004 From: bchacc at san.rr.com (Rocky Smolin - Beach Access Software) Date: Fri, 19 Mar 2004 07:51:46 -0800 Subject: [AccessD] Form resizing Message-ID: <006001c40dca$1564f7f0$6601a8c0@HAL9002> Dear List: I'm using the form resizing code from the A97 ADH on an app that was originally developed in A97. It was then upgraded to A2K. There are now some issues with resizing at higher resolutions (I get a message that a control is too large for the form). The knottiest problem is the resizing of the controls on a sub form loaded onto a page of a tab form. I see that there is resizing code in the A2K ADH. Has anyone had any experience with this? Is it better? Does it handle things like resizing controls on a sub-form? MTIA Rocky Smolin Beach Access Software http://www.e-z-mrp.com From cfoust at infostatsystems.com Fri Mar 19 10:28:25 2004 From: cfoust at infostatsystems.com (Charlotte Foust) Date: Fri, 19 Mar 2004 08:28:25 -0800 Subject: [AccessD] OT Wrist/Arm Pain - was Short Date Input Mask quest ion Message-ID: Fluffy and Fang are very loyal to me. They follow me around like puppies ... Very LARGE, muscular puppies. Charlotte Foust -----Original Message----- From: Bryan Carbonnell [mailto:Bryan_Carbonnell at cbc.ca] Sent: Friday, March 19, 2004 5:55 AM To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: RE: [AccessD] OT Wrist/Arm Pain - was Short Date Input Mask quest ion OH NO!!!!! I though Fluffy and Fang liked to lounge over in the Lounge?? Now you're bringing them here!??!?!?!? Run!! Hide!!! Lock up your children!!! Bryan Carbonnell bryan_carbonnell at cbc.ca >>> cfoust at infostatsystems.com 18-Mar-04 4:44:29 PM >>> Grrrr! All right, the gloves are off! I'm sending for the Access enforcers, Fluffy and Fang, to come and break your legs! Charlotte Foust -----Original Message----- From: David McAfee (Home) [mailto:dmcafee at pacbell.net] Sent: Thursday, March 18, 2004 1:37 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] OT Wrist/Arm Pain - was Short Date Input Mask quest ion Dan, she got mad because someone made fun of her when typing on a split keyboard. They said she looked like she was doing the chicken dance with her elbows out there like open doors :P Who hurt you Charlotte? :) (Is it Friday yet?) -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From john at winhaven.net Fri Mar 19 10:46:14 2004 From: john at winhaven.net (John Bartow) Date: Fri, 19 Mar 2004 10:46:14 -0600 Subject: [AccessD] Mixed Versions In-Reply-To: <01fb01c40d52$fb8ba990$6601a8c0@HAL9002> Message-ID: Rocky, JMO that you're opening a can of worms here. I would suggest you send it with Wise,SageKey,ODE,A97 runtime installation script. John -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Rocky Smolin - Beach Access Software Sent: Thursday, March 18, 2004 7:39 PM To: AccessD at databaseadvisors.com Subject: [AccessD] Mixed Versions Dear List: I have a client running one of my old A97 apps FE and BE. He wants me to supply an FE that will run on a machine with AXP or A2003 I have A2K. If I convert my A97 FE to A2K and make an mde out of it, will the mde run on a box with AXP and/or A2003 and be able to read/write the A97 BE? MTIA, Rocky Smolin Beach Access Software http://www.e-z-mrp.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From BarbaraRyan at cox.net Fri Mar 19 11:02:51 2004 From: BarbaraRyan at cox.net (Barbara Ryan) Date: Fri, 19 Mar 2004 12:02:51 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Value of a recordset field Message-ID: <005a01c40dd4$03a52940$0a00a8c0@cx470148a> In an Access 97 app, I have a DAO recordset ("rs") which contains all of the fields in my Employee table ("tblEmp"). I need to retrieve the VALUE of the fieldname (not the field's name) contained in variable strFieldName. strFieldname can be one of several values ("rs!EmpNo", "rs!BadgeNo", "rs!SSN", etc.) . How can I do this? I've tried "rs(strFieldname).value", and variations of this, but can't get it to work Thanks, Barb From BarbaraRyan at cox.net Fri Mar 19 11:06:23 2004 From: BarbaraRyan at cox.net (Barbara Ryan) Date: Fri, 19 Mar 2004 12:06:23 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Value of a recordset field References: <005a01c40dd4$03a52940$0a00a8c0@cx470148a> Message-ID: <006101c40dd4$82467560$0a00a8c0@cx470148a> Sorry... "rs(strFieldname).value" DID work..... I just had a different problem!......Barb ----- Original Message ----- From: "Barbara Ryan" To: "Access List" Sent: Friday, March 19, 2004 12:02 PM Subject: [AccessD] Value of a recordset field In an Access 97 app, I have a DAO recordset ("rs") which contains all of the fields in my Employee table ("tblEmp"). I need to retrieve the VALUE of the fieldname (not the field's name) contained in variable strFieldName. strFieldname can be one of several values ("rs!EmpNo", "rs!BadgeNo", "rs!SSN", etc.) . How can I do this? I've tried "rs(strFieldname).value", and variations of this, but can't get it to work Thanks, Barb -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From clh at christopherhawkins.com Fri Mar 19 11:02:58 2004 From: clh at christopherhawkins.com (Christopher Hawkins) Date: Fri, 19 Mar 2004 10:02:58 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] Using Access for Reports w/an ASP app? Message-ID: <228270-22004351917258596@christopherhawkins.com> Greetings! Here's my deal - I have a spectacularly cheap client who brought me on to fix an Access application that was botched by another programmer (90% of my business falls into this category. :P), but they've decided that Access is at least partly to blame for the failure of the project (again, I say :P). So they want me to re-write the front-end in ASP. No problem there - most of the problems are in the UI; the schema is surprisingly good, considering the UI (it's truly poor). The roadblock I'm encountering is this: how do I make sure they can still access their reports? They have some pretty complex reports in that Access app, and they won't pay for Crystal. I was thinking that I'd leave a copy of their Access mdb on the web server and then write a dll that would open a report, write it ti pdf, and then return it to the browser. The only problem is...I have no idea how to do that. I also don't know if it's a smart thing to do. I also don't knwo if they'll want to pay for the dev time. Barring the above idea, is anyone aware of a cheap or free web reporting utility/tool/component that I can use to either leverage their existing reports, or re-create them for web use without having to go with something expensive like Crystal? -Christopher- From Paul.Millard at freight.fedex.com Fri Mar 19 11:11:52 2004 From: Paul.Millard at freight.fedex.com (Millard, Paul --- Sr. Developer Analyst ---WGO) Date: Fri, 19 Mar 2004 09:11:52 -0800 Subject: [AccessD] Connect to DB2 Message-ID: <67B2D43A2067B248A36B007650A2312C35F88A@PSJOE2K1.fxfwest.freight.fedex.com> Yeah, I found this site yesterday and plugged in the oledb db2 connection string and Access gave me an error about cannot find a provider. How does one get a provider for db2? -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Jim Lawrence (AccessD) Sent: Thursday, March 18, 2004 6:07 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] Connect to DB2 Hi Paul: Check this site out. It gives a number of DB2 connection examples depending on what and how you require the connection. http://www.able-consulting.com/ADO_Conn.htm HTH Jim -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Millard, Paul --- Sr. Developer Analyst ---WGO Sent: Thursday, March 18, 2004 2:02 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: [AccessD] Connect to DB2 Folks, Can anyone help me connect to a db2 database. I've seen multiple ways to connect using OLEDB Connection strings but I'm not sure what the database name and format should be. Below is a QMF SQL query tool .ini file used to connect to the database. If anyone can provide the string along with exact values based upon info below that would be great. Thanks, Paul [Server Parameters] Server1=HOST Server2=HOSTDSNB [HOST] RDBName=AFDSNP CollectionName=QMFWIN HostName=AFW1.HRO.AF.COM Port=446 SymDestName=*TCP/IP* DefaultSchedule1=Y00000078000003840009601710000012C0000000000000000000200000 00007FDFFFE00002710XX DefaultSchedule2=@ 0000000000000000 DefaultSchedule3=2 DefaultSchedule4= QueryBlockSize=32500 DecimalDelimiter=Period StringDelimiter=Apostrophe IsolationLevel=CursorStability BindReplace=1 BindKeep=1 BindOwner= xSingleCCSID=37 xMixedCCSID=0 xDoubleCCSID=0 xQMFCCSID=37 [HOSTDSNB] RDBName=AFDSNT CollectionName=QMFWIN HostName=AFW2.HRO.AF.COM Port=5030 SymDestName=*TCP/IP* DefaultSchedule1=Y00000078000003840009601710000012C0000000000000000000200000 00007FDFFFE00002710XX DefaultSchedule2=@ 0000000000000000 DefaultSchedule3=2 DefaultSchedule4= QueryBlockSize=32500 DecimalDelimiter=Period StringDelimiter=Apostrophe IsolationLevel=CursorStability BindReplace=1 BindKeep=1 BindOwner= xSingleCCSID=37 xMixedCCSID=0 xDoubleCCSID=0 xQMFCCSID=37 ********************************************************** This message contains information that is confidential and proprietary to FedEx Freight or its affiliates. It is intended only for the recipient named and for the express purpose(s) described therein. Any other use is prohibited. **************************************************************** -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From liz at symphonyinfo.com Fri Mar 19 11:24:26 2004 From: liz at symphonyinfo.com (Liz Doering) Date: Fri, 19 Mar 2004 11:24:26 -0600 Subject: [AccessD] Re: Mixed Versions In-Reply-To: <002501c40dc6$c8014a70$6601a8c0@HAL9002> Message-ID: I have had good luck with this for .mdbs. -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Rocky Smolin - Beach Access Software Sent: Friday, March 19, 2004 9:28 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Re: Mixed Versions Robert: Thanks. Do you know about A2003? Can an mde created under A2000 run under A2003 and see an A97 back end? MTIA, Rocky Smolin Beach Access Software http://www.e-z-mrp.com ----- Original Message ----- From: "Robert L. Stewart" To: Sent: Friday, March 19, 2004 7:15 AM Subject: [AccessD] Re: Mixed Versions > Rocky, > > He should be able to run it under 2002 with out any conversion. > He just cannot change any of the programming objects. > > Robert > > At 08:05 PM 3/18/2004 -0600, you wrote: > >Date: Thu, 18 Mar 2004 17:39:12 -0800 > >From: "Rocky Smolin - Beach Access Software" > >Subject: [AccessD] Mixed Versions > >To: > >Message-ID: <01fb01c40d52$fb8ba990$6601a8c0 at HAL9002> > >Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" > > > >Dear List: > > > >I have a client running one of my old A97 apps FE and BE. He wants me to > >supply an FE that will run on a machine with AXP or A2003 > > > >I have A2K. If I convert my A97 FE to A2K and make an mde out of it, will > >the mde run on a box with AXP and/or A2003 and be able to read/write the > >A97 BE? > > > >MTIA, > > > >Rocky Smolin > >Beach Access Software > > > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From Mark.Mitsules at ngc.com Fri Mar 19 12:09:18 2004 From: Mark.Mitsules at ngc.com (Mitsules, Mark S. (Newport News)) Date: Fri, 19 Mar 2004 13:09:18 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Using Access for Reports w/an ASP app? Message-ID: Cheap...sure...Snapshot Viewer. http://www.microsoft.com/accessdev/articles/snapshot.htm?gssnb=1 See http://www.microsoft.com/accessdev/articles/snapshot.htm?gssnb=1#WWW Mark -----Original Message----- From: Christopher Hawkins [mailto:clh at christopherhawkins.com] Sent: Friday, March 19, 2004 12:03 PM To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: [AccessD] Using Access for Reports w/an ASP app? Greetings! Here's my deal - I have a spectacularly cheap client who brought me on to fix an Access application that was botched by another programmer (90% of my business falls into this category. :P), but they've decided that Access is at least partly to blame for the failure of the project (again, I say :P). So they want me to re-write the front-end in ASP. No problem there - most of the problems are in the UI; the schema is surprisingly good, considering the UI (it's truly poor). The roadblock I'm encountering is this: how do I make sure they can still access their reports? They have some pretty complex reports in that Access app, and they won't pay for Crystal. I was thinking that I'd leave a copy of their Access mdb on the web server and then write a dll that would open a report, write it ti pdf, and then return it to the browser. The only problem is...I have no idea how to do that. I also don't know if it's a smart thing to do. I also don't knwo if they'll want to pay for the dev time. Barring the above idea, is anyone aware of a cheap or free web reporting utility/tool/component that I can use to either leverage their existing reports, or re-create them for web use without having to go with something expensive like Crystal? -Christopher- -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From clh at christopherhawkins.com Fri Mar 19 12:27:42 2004 From: clh at christopherhawkins.com (Christopher Hawkins) Date: Fri, 19 Mar 2004 11:27:42 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] Using Access for Reports w/an ASP app? Message-ID: <122290-220043519182742732@christopherhawkins.com> Mark, If I'm reading this right, it doesn't support reportign on demand - I'd have to save a copy of each report in .snp format in order for the users to view them in the SnapShot viewer. Am I missing something? -C- ---- Original Message ---- From: Mark.Mitsules at ngc.com To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com, Subject: RE: [AccessD] Using Access for Reports w/an ASP app? Date: Fri, 19 Mar 2004 13:09:18 -0500 >Cheap...sure...Snapshot Viewer. > >http://www.microsoft.com/accessdev/articles/snapshot.htm?gssnb=1 > >See >http://www.microsoft.com/accessdev/articles/snapshot.htm?gssnb=1#WWW > > > >Mark > > > >-----Original Message----- >From: Christopher Hawkins [mailto:clh at christopherhawkins.com] >Sent: Friday, March 19, 2004 12:03 PM >To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com >Subject: [AccessD] Using Access for Reports w/an ASP app? > > >Greetings! > >Here's my deal - I have a spectacularly cheap client who brought me >on to fix an Access application that was botched by another >programmer (90% of my business falls into this category. :P), but >they've decided that Access is at least partly to blame for the >failure of the project (again, I say :P). > >So they want me to re-write the front-end in ASP. No problem there - >most of the problems are in the UI; the schema is surprisingly good, >considering the UI (it's truly poor). > >The roadblock I'm encountering is this: how do I make sure they can >still access their reports? They have some pretty complex reports in >that Access app, and they won't pay for Crystal. > >I was thinking that I'd leave a copy of their Access mdb on the web >server and then write a dll that would open a report, write it ti >pdf, and then return it to the browser. The only problem is...I have >no idea how to do that. I also don't know if it's a smart thing to >do. I also don't knwo if they'll want to pay for the dev time. > >Barring the above idea, is anyone aware of a cheap or free web >reporting utility/tool/component that I can use to either leverage >their existing reports, or re-create them for web use without having >to go with something expensive like Crystal? > > >-Christopher- > > >-- >_______________________________________________ >AccessD mailing list >AccessD at databaseadvisors.com >http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd >Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com >-- >_______________________________________________ >AccessD mailing list >AccessD at databaseadvisors.com >http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd >Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > From gustav at cactus.dk Fri Mar 19 12:54:42 2004 From: gustav at cactus.dk (Gustav Brock) Date: Fri, 19 Mar 2004 19:54:42 +0100 Subject: [AccessD] Using Access for Reports w/an ASP app? In-Reply-To: <122290-220043519182742732@christopherhawkins.com> References: <122290-220043519182742732@christopherhawkins.com> Message-ID: <14640258749.20040319195442@cactus.dk> Hi Christopher What you are requesting is some sort of "Access report server engine". I see three options when a report is requested: 1. Make a direct call to Access to open and print the report. 2. Raise an event which is caught by a running Access instance. 3. Create a message queue. Put the name etc. of the report into the queue, have Access to poll the queue and print when an entry is found. For 1. and 2. you will have the problem that Access is single threaded which means that if Access is printing a report it cannot initiate printing another. For 1. you could possibly - as long system resources permit - open a new instance of Access. This could be hard to control. For 2. I don't know if it is possible to have several instances of Access running to watch for the same event. For 3. you should be able to have several instances running polling at random intervals to obtain a needed total output capacity (reports per hour). I too would be very interested if some of you have some experiences with a setup for a purpose like this as Access is an excellent report engine and - run as runtimes - at zero cost compared to the quite expensive Crystal Reports. /gustav > If I'm reading this right, it doesn't support reportign on demand - > I'd have to save a copy of each report in .snp format in order for > the users to view them in the SnapShot viewer. Am I missing > something? > -C- > ---- Original Message ---- > From: Mark.Mitsules at ngc.com > To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com, > Subject: RE: [AccessD] Using Access for Reports w/an ASP app? > Date: Fri, 19 Mar 2004 13:09:18 -0500 >>Cheap...sure...Snapshot Viewer. >> >>http://www.microsoft.com/accessdev/articles/snapshot.htm?gssnb=1 >> >>See >>http://www.microsoft.com/accessdev/articles/snapshot.htm?gssnb=1#WWW >> >>Mark >>-----Original Message----- >>From: Christopher Hawkins [mailto:clh at christopherhawkins.com] >>Sent: Friday, March 19, 2004 12:03 PM >>To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com >>Subject: [AccessD] Using Access for Reports w/an ASP app? >> >> >>Greetings! >> >>Here's my deal - I have a spectacularly cheap client who brought me >>on to fix an Access application that was botched by another >>programmer (90% of my business falls into this category. :P), but >>they've decided that Access is at least partly to blame for the >>failure of the project (again, I say :P). >> >>So they want me to re-write the front-end in ASP. No problem there - >>most of the problems are in the UI; the schema is surprisingly good, >>considering the UI (it's truly poor). >> >>The roadblock I'm encountering is this: how do I make sure they can >>still access their reports? They have some pretty complex reports in >>that Access app, and they won't pay for Crystal. >> >>I was thinking that I'd leave a copy of their Access mdb on the web >>server and then write a dll that would open a report, write it ti >>pdf, and then return it to the browser. The only problem is...I have >>no idea how to do that. I also don't know if it's a smart thing to >>do. I also don't knwo if they'll want to pay for the dev time. >> >>Barring the above idea, is anyone aware of a cheap or free web >>reporting utility/tool/component that I can use to either leverage >>their existing reports, or re-create them for web use without having >>to go with something expensive like Crystal? From Mark.Mitsules at ngc.com Fri Mar 19 12:54:14 2004 From: Mark.Mitsules at ngc.com (Mitsules, Mark S. (Newport News)) Date: Fri, 19 Mar 2004 13:54:14 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Using Access for Reports w/an ASP app? Message-ID: The short answer is, a "snapshot" is just that...a snapshot. So, yes, you have to re-create those snapshot files each and every time. But, the second link described one method of generating these reports programmatically on a regular basis. That method could be modified to allow for "on demand" reports. All-in-all not a very robust solution, but it appears that it could satisfy both of your requirements...web-based and cheap. Mark -----Original Message----- From: Christopher Hawkins [mailto:clh at christopherhawkins.com] Sent: Friday, March 19, 2004 1:28 PM To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: RE: [AccessD] Using Access for Reports w/an ASP app? Mark, If I'm reading this right, it doesn't support reportign on demand - I'd have to save a copy of each report in .snp format in order for the users to view them in the SnapShot viewer. Am I missing something? -C- ---- Original Message ---- From: Mark.Mitsules at ngc.com To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com, Subject: RE: [AccessD] Using Access for Reports w/an ASP app? Date: Fri, 19 Mar 2004 13:09:18 -0500 >Cheap...sure...Snapshot Viewer. > >http://www.microsoft.com/accessdev/articles/snapshot.htm?gssnb=1 > >See >http://www.microsoft.com/accessdev/articles/snapshot.htm?gssnb=1#WWW > > > >Mark > > > >-----Original Message----- >From: Christopher Hawkins [mailto:clh at christopherhawkins.com] >Sent: Friday, March 19, 2004 12:03 PM >To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com >Subject: [AccessD] Using Access for Reports w/an ASP app? > > >Greetings! > >Here's my deal - I have a spectacularly cheap client who brought me >on to fix an Access application that was botched by another >programmer (90% of my business falls into this category. :P), but >they've decided that Access is at least partly to blame for the >failure of the project (again, I say :P). > >So they want me to re-write the front-end in ASP. No problem there - >most of the problems are in the UI; the schema is surprisingly good, >considering the UI (it's truly poor). > >The roadblock I'm encountering is this: how do I make sure they can >still access their reports? They have some pretty complex reports in >that Access app, and they won't pay for Crystal. > >I was thinking that I'd leave a copy of their Access mdb on the web >server and then write a dll that would open a report, write it ti >pdf, and then return it to the browser. The only problem is...I have >no idea how to do that. I also don't know if it's a smart thing to >do. I also don't knwo if they'll want to pay for the dev time. > >Barring the above idea, is anyone aware of a cheap or free web >reporting utility/tool/component that I can use to either leverage >their existing reports, or re-create them for web use without having >to go with something expensive like Crystal? > > >-Christopher- > > >-- >_______________________________________________ >AccessD mailing list >AccessD at databaseadvisors.com >http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd >Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com >-- >_______________________________________________ >AccessD mailing list >AccessD at databaseadvisors.com >http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd >Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From martyconnelly at shaw.ca Fri Mar 19 13:50:43 2004 From: martyconnelly at shaw.ca (MartyConnelly) Date: Fri, 19 Mar 2004 11:50:43 -0800 Subject: [AccessD] Connect to DB2 References: <67B2D43A2067B248A36B007650A2312C35F88A@PSJOE2K1.fxfwest.freight.fedex.com> Message-ID: <405B4F13.302@shaw.ca> That provider doesn't come with MDAC. It only comes with MS HIS Server The Host Integration Server 2000 (was MS SNA server). You are now talking in $2,500 range I think plus cost of win2003 or 2000 server You have to differentiate between whether you are connecting via SNA or TCP/IP There is a HIS Beta available and a 120 day trial http://www.microsoft.com/hiserver/beta/default.asp see this newsgroup microsoft.public.snaserver.programming Host Integration Server is an integration solution for connectivity to a mainframe OS/390 (appears as a cluster controller, PU2 device), AS/400 OS/400 (appears as a PU2.1 LEN node) Symtrax iSeries OLE DB Driver free trial for AS400 http://www.symtrax.com/en/products/oledb/ Or you might get IBM's oledb version, it maybe inside Free Personal DB2 edition, haven't looked in a few years. There is another version for dotNet. DB2 Personal Developer's Edition (DB2 Personal Developers Edition for Windows (x86, 32-bit)) 500 Meg download http://www14.software.ibm.com/webapp/download/preconfig.jsp?id=2003-09-12+10%3A53%3A49.025154R&S_TACT=TrialsAndBetas&S_CMP=&s= Millard, Paul --- Sr. Developer Analyst ---WGO wrote: >Yeah, I found this site yesterday and plugged in the oledb db2 connection string and Access gave me an error about cannot find a provider. > >How does one get a provider for db2? > >-----Original Message----- >From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com >[mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Jim Lawrence >(AccessD) >Sent: Thursday, March 18, 2004 6:07 PM >To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving >Subject: RE: [AccessD] Connect to DB2 > > >Hi Paul: > >Check this site out. It gives a number of DB2 connection examples depending >on what and how you require the connection. > >http://www.able-consulting.com/ADO_Conn.htm > >HTH >Jim > >-----Original Message----- >From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com >[mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Millard, Paul >--- Sr. Developer Analyst ---WGO >Sent: Thursday, March 18, 2004 2:02 PM >To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving >Subject: [AccessD] Connect to DB2 > > > >Folks, > >Can anyone help me connect to a db2 database. I've seen multiple ways to >connect using OLEDB Connection strings but I'm not sure what the database >name and format should be. Below is a QMF SQL query tool .ini file used to >connect to the database. > >If anyone can provide the string along with exact values based upon info >below that would be great. > >Thanks, >Paul > >[Server Parameters] >Server1=HOST >Server2=HOSTDSNB >[HOST] >RDBName=AFDSNP >CollectionName=QMFWIN >HostName=AFW1.HRO.AF.COM >Port=446 >SymDestName=*TCP/IP* >DefaultSchedule1=Y00000078000003840009601710000012C0000000000000000000200000 >00007FDFFFE00002710XX >DefaultSchedule2=@ >0000000000000000 >DefaultSchedule3=2 >DefaultSchedule4= >QueryBlockSize=32500 >DecimalDelimiter=Period >StringDelimiter=Apostrophe >IsolationLevel=CursorStability >BindReplace=1 >BindKeep=1 >BindOwner= >xSingleCCSID=37 >xMixedCCSID=0 >xDoubleCCSID=0 >xQMFCCSID=37 >[HOSTDSNB] >RDBName=AFDSNT >CollectionName=QMFWIN >HostName=AFW2.HRO.AF.COM >Port=5030 >SymDestName=*TCP/IP* >DefaultSchedule1=Y00000078000003840009601710000012C0000000000000000000200000 >00007FDFFFE00002710XX >DefaultSchedule2=@ >0000000000000000 >DefaultSchedule3=2 >DefaultSchedule4= >QueryBlockSize=32500 >DecimalDelimiter=Period >StringDelimiter=Apostrophe >IsolationLevel=CursorStability >BindReplace=1 >BindKeep=1 >BindOwner= >xSingleCCSID=37 >xMixedCCSID=0 >xDoubleCCSID=0 >xQMFCCSID=37 > > >********************************************************** >This message contains information that is confidential >and proprietary to FedEx Freight or its affiliates. >It is intended only for the recipient named and for >the express purpose(s) described therein. >Any other use is prohibited. >**************************************************************** > >-- >_______________________________________________ >AccessD mailing list >AccessD at databaseadvisors.com >http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd >Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > -- Marty Connelly Victoria, B.C. Canada From dwaters at usinternet.com Fri Mar 19 14:04:02 2004 From: dwaters at usinternet.com (Dan Waters) Date: Fri, 19 Mar 2004 14:04:02 -0600 Subject: [AccessD] Synchronize with Palm or PocketPC Message-ID: <000501c40ded$53313300$de1811d8@DanWaters> Hello everyone, I have a client where a possibly good solution would be to enter information into a PDA and then synchronize it with an Access app once per day. Can anyone point me in a direction to learn more about this? Anyone have any good/lousy experiences? Thanks! Dan Waters From garykjos at hotmail.com Fri Mar 19 15:02:59 2004 From: garykjos at hotmail.com (Gary Kjos) Date: Fri, 19 Mar 2004 15:02:59 -0600 Subject: [AccessD] Synchronize with Palm or PocketPC Message-ID: I haven't actually used this, but I did buy it and it is supposed to allow syncing between handheld database and Access database It's called "Smartlist to go" and is made by Dataviz, the same guys who do Documents to Go which I have used and is a fabulous tool for synciing Excel and Word Docs to a PalmOS handheld. http://www.dataviz.com/products/smartlisttogo/index.html Gary Kjos garykjos at hotmail.com >From: "Dan Waters" >Reply-To: Access Developers discussion and problem >solving >To: "'Access Developers discussion and problem >solving'" >Subject: [AccessD] Synchronize with Palm or PocketPC >Date: Fri, 19 Mar 2004 14:04:02 -0600 > >Hello everyone, > > > >I have a client where a possibly good solution would be to enter >information >into a PDA and then synchronize it with an Access app once per day. > > > >Can anyone point me in a direction to learn more about this? Anyone have >any good/lousy experiences? > > > >Thanks! > >Dan Waters > >-- >_______________________________________________ >AccessD mailing list >AccessD at databaseadvisors.com >http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd >Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com _________________________________________________________________ MSN Toolbar provides one-click access to Hotmail from any Web page ? FREE download! http://clk.atdmt.com/AVE/go/onm00200413ave/direct/01/ From Patricia.O'Connor at DFA.STATE.NY.US Fri Mar 19 15:45:36 2004 From: Patricia.O'Connor at DFA.STATE.NY.US (O'Connor, Patricia ) Date: Fri, 19 Mar 2004 16:45:36 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Execute stored query using ADO Message-ID: Hi all I am attempting to set up a job stream in VBA. The first example works fine strSql = "INSERT INTO TBL_EXPFSDT (EXPFS_BASE_DT)" strSql = strSql & " VALUES (TO_DATE('" & dtNew & "', 'MM/DD/YYYY'))" cmd.CommandText = strSql cmd.ActiveConnection = cnn cmd.CommandType = adCmdText cmd.Execute lngAffected, , adExecuteNoRecords Then next step is to execute a stored passthru query named q01aCreateNycFsTable the following does not work Set cmd = New ADODB.Command cmd.ActiveConnection = cnn cmd.CommandText = "q01aCreateNycFsTable" cmd.CommandType = adCmdStoredProc cmd.Execute lngAffected, , adExecuteNoRecords This is driving me nuts, I have tried several other combinations. I have other queries I wish to do the same thing but do not want to have to string out like in first example - TOO long. How do I run an access query using ADO or do I have to use DAO. Thanks From pjones at btl.net Fri Mar 19 15:41:04 2004 From: pjones at btl.net (Paul M. Jones) Date: Fri, 19 Mar 2004 15:41:04 -0600 Subject: [AccessD] Synchronize with Palm or PocketPC In-Reply-To: <000501c40ded$53313300$de1811d8@DanWaters> References: <000501c40ded$53313300$de1811d8@DanWaters> Message-ID: <6.0.0.22.2.20040319153555.02e115b0@btlmail.btl.net> I've used HanDBase to develop a very small app on the palm that synchronizes with MS Access on a desktop. Unfortunately I did not spend enough time to become aware of all the challenges that one might face but I do know that it works. The software itself sells for about $29.00. Paul M. Jones At 02:04 PM 03/19/2004, you wrote: >Hello everyone, > > > >I have a client where a possibly good solution would be to enter information >into a PDA and then synchronize it with an Access app once per day. > > > >Can anyone point me in a direction to learn more about this? Anyone have >any good/lousy experiences? > > > >Thanks! > >Dan Waters > >-- >_______________________________________________ >AccessD mailing list >AccessD at databaseadvisors.com >http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd >Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From cfoust at infostatsystems.com Fri Mar 19 16:05:21 2004 From: cfoust at infostatsystems.com (Charlotte Foust) Date: Fri, 19 Mar 2004 14:05:21 -0800 Subject: [AccessD] Execute stored query using ADO Message-ID: I've used that syntax to execute a saved query in Access before. Can you successfully execute the query using DAO? Charlotte Foust -----Original Message----- From: O'Connor, Patricia [mailto:Patricia.O'Connor at DFA.STATE.NY.US] Sent: Friday, March 19, 2004 1:46 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: [AccessD] Execute stored query using ADO Hi all I am attempting to set up a job stream in VBA. The first example works fine strSql = "INSERT INTO TBL_EXPFSDT (EXPFS_BASE_DT)" strSql = strSql & " VALUES (TO_DATE('" & dtNew & "', 'MM/DD/YYYY'))" cmd.CommandText = strSql cmd.ActiveConnection = cnn cmd.CommandType = adCmdText cmd.Execute lngAffected, , adExecuteNoRecords Then next step is to execute a stored passthru query named q01aCreateNycFsTable the following does not work Set cmd = New ADODB.Command cmd.ActiveConnection = cnn cmd.CommandText = "q01aCreateNycFsTable" cmd.CommandType = adCmdStoredProc cmd.Execute lngAffected, , adExecuteNoRecords This is driving me nuts, I have tried several other combinations. I have other queries I wish to do the same thing but do not want to have to string out like in first example - TOO long. How do I run an access query using ADO or do I have to use DAO. Thanks -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From DWUTKA at marlow.com Fri Mar 19 16:44:06 2004 From: DWUTKA at marlow.com (DWUTKA at marlow.com) Date: Fri, 19 Mar 2004 16:44:06 -0600 Subject: [AccessD] Short Date Input Mask question Message-ID: <2F8793082E00D4119A1700B0D0216BF802227998@main2.marlow.com> LOL. Hey, it's free, don't complain... Drew -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of William Hindman Sent: Thursday, March 18, 2004 6:59 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Short Date Input Mask question ...snore ...do while ...snore ...do while ...snore ...do while ...loop de loop :)))))) William Hindman You know the world is upside down when Bill Clinton wins a Grammy and Janet Jackson is the subject of a government sex investigation. Argus Hamilton. ----- Original Message ----- From: To: Sent: Thursday, March 18, 2004 12:28 PM Subject: RE: [AccessD] Short Date Input Mask question > Wait until I get that thing finished....THEN you'll have a reason to try my > new one.... grin. Of course, you'll probably complain about how 'un-mini' > it is...LOL! > > Drew > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of William > Hindman > Sent: Wednesday, March 17, 2004 3:45 PM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: Re: [AccessD] Short Date Input Mask question > > > ...yes and no ...convenient but a suck for bad data entry ime ...one types > in 6/1/2004 ...one types in 1/6/2004 ...one types in 1 jun 04 and tabs on > down the line, etc ...lecture me all day on dumb users but I don't have the > option of firing them ...so I pop up a small calendar every time ...if the > user enters directly in the text box, the calendar moves to the date entered > to provide visual feedback ...if he/she selects from the calendar it fills > the text box ...either way they can mouse it or keyboard it ...so no matter > whether the user is military trained (euro dating) or public school trained > (US dating you hope) or wants to type in the alpha month, I get him there > somehow so that the right date gets entered ...nothings foolproof but date > entry errors have gone to zero ...which is worth the cost of the popup to me > and my clients. > > ...as a side I tried this approach using the native calendar control and > could never make its speed acceptable ...after a lot of experimentation I > standardized on an older version of Drew's all vba code calendar (with some > mods) which is quite fast for my needs ...one of these days I might get > around to using his newest version but I've not found a reason to as yet :) > > William Hindman > You know the world is upside down when Bill Clinton wins a Grammy and Janet > Jackson is the subject of a government sex investigation. Argus Hamilton. > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Brett Barabash" > To: "'Access Developers discussion and problem solving'" > > Sent: Wednesday, March 17, 2004 3:43 PM > Subject: RE: [AccessD] Short Date Input Mask question > > > > >I do not believe that providing a pop up calendar is incorrect especially > > as > > >the users can tab into a date field and use a keyboard in any event. > > > > You missed my point. This is EXACTLY my sentiment. > > > > I said: > > >One of my biggest UI pet peeves is fields that disallow keyboard entry. > > > > My response was to someone who doesn't allow the user to tab into a date > > field and forces them to open up a calendar instead. In my opinion, this > is > > a lazy way of avoiding date validation code. > > > > Have you ever used a program or website that forces you to use a calendar > to > > enter your birthdate? (I have!) Personally, I find it a PITA to click a > > button to open a calendar, navigate to 1975, select May from a dropdown > and > > then click on the 6. I'd like to type 05/06/1975, but some lazy > programmer > > decided that it's way more elegant to launch a special screen to guide me > > through this complex process. > > > > OTOH, Outlook gives you several different options for date selection. To > > schedule a meeting for tomorrow, I can type... > > 03/18/2004 > > March 18, 2004 > > 2004 Mar 18 > > ...or click on the box next to the field if I want to see a calendar. > > > > The developers put a lot of thought into this and because of its inherent > > flexibility it is easy to use by all types of users. I wish other pieces > of > > software were as ambitious. > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: J?rgen Welz [mailto:jwelz at hotmail.com] > > Sent: Wednesday, March 17, 2004 1:45 PM > > To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com > > Subject: RE: [AccessD] Short Date Input Mask question > > > > At one point a few years ago at this list I made a similar comment saying > I > > provided a doubleclick pop up calendar and received a similar response. > As > > a result, I once logged usage of: > > > > Double click pop up calendar > > vs > > Key down with form key preview on, Alt-d pops calendar if screen > active > > control had a standard input mask property. > > > > I also considered a keyboard autokeys macro call a runcode that did the > same > > > > thing but never did implement this version. > > > > Logging indicated that well over 98% of the data entry was by double click > > popup calendar. Granted these were very 'unsophisticated' users but the > > majority of their daily tasks involved interaction with the application. > > > > I do not believe that providing a pop up calendar is incorrect especially > as > > > > the users can tab into a date field and use a keyboard in any event. > IIRC, > > I had changed the display format and input mask dynamically in the past so > > that a user could key in 'mm/dd/yy' but the display format whenever the > > control didn't have focus was 'mmm/dd/yyyy'. I also added a label > > displaying the input format at each date entry textbox so there was never > a > > question as to the required input sequence. > > > > I also believe that one of the reasons that my users like my pop up > calendar > > > > is because it also displays appointments and blocked off dates for that > user > > > > and other office staff (selected in multiselect list). It can be popped > by > > keyboard or by doubleclick and can be navigated by mouse or cursor or page > > keys (for months) and you can tab into a year textbox. The months are > each > > on a tab wtih Alt-character navigation and cursoring down past the end of > > one month moves to the next month (and up to previous). Finally, the > Enter > > keys accepts the date, sets the source textbox and dismisses the calendar > > and the Escape key dismisses the calendar without setting or changing a > > date. > > > > I am a firm believer in always providing a keyboard navigation method, but > > that never precludes adding a mouse alternative that does exactly the same > > thing. A pop up calendar can be entirely keyboard controlled at a cost of > a > > > > few extra keystrokes for the rich graphical information that it can > present. > > > > And just because it's there doesn't mean a user ever has to use it. It > > just turns out that my experience is that they will even though I have a > > prejudice for preferring to use the keyboard wherever possible. I suspect > > this prejudice afflicts most programmers. > > > > If only browers were more keyboard friendly. > > > > > > Ciao > > J?rgen Welz > > Edmonton, Alberta > > jwelz at hotmail.com > > > > > > > > > > > > >From: Brett Barabash > > > > > >I bet the data entry people love you! > > > > > >It may "work for you", but I'll bet that there are some users out there > > >that > > >feel otherwise. One of my biggest UI pet peeves is fields that disallow > > >keyboard entry. One record or 1000 records, it's still annoying to move > > >your hand off of the home row of your keyboard and click around to select > a > > >date. > > > > > > > > >-----Original Message----- > > >From: Heenan, Lambert [mailto:Lambert.Heenan at aig.com] > > >Sent: Wednesday, March 17, 2004 8:22 AM > > >To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' > > >Subject: RE: [AccessD] Short Date Input Mask question > > > > > > > > >My solution to date entry is simple - I never let user's type in a date. > > >They always pick the date from a simple calendar form (though I don't > use > > >the MS Calendar control). Click on a date field and up pops the date > > >picker. > > >While this would not be suitable, perhaps, in applications where massive > > >numbers of dates need to be entered, I find it works just fine for me. > > > > > >Lambert > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > > From: Arthur Fuller [SMTP:artful at rogers.com] > > > > Sent: Tuesday, March 16, 2004 5:47 PM > > > > To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' > > > > Subject: [AccessD] Short Date Input Mask question > > > > > > > > The standard short date input mask (99/99/0000;0;_) has a shortcoming > > > > that I hate: you have to type 04/04/04 to get April 4th 2004. The year > > > > handling is nice but the month and day suck. The mask won't let you > type > > > > 4/4/04. Is there an alternative mask that will respond intelligently > to > > > > such input? Or should I instead just remove all the input masks from > all > > > > the date fields? > > > > > > > > TIA, > > > > Arthur > > > > _________________________________________________________________ > > > > -------------------------------------------------------------------------- > ------------------------------------------ > > The information in this email may contain confidential information that > > is legally privileged. The information is only for the use of the intended > > recipient(s) named above. If you are not the intended recipient(s), you > > are hereby notified that any disclosure, copying, distribution, or the > taking > > of any action in regard to the content of this fax is strictly prohibited. > If > > transmission is incorrect, unclear, or incomplete, please notify the > sender > > immediately. The authorized recipient(s) of this information is/are > prohibited > > from disclosing this information to any other party and is/are required to > > destroy the information after its stated need has been fulfilled. > > > > Any views expressed in this message are those of the individual > > sender, except where the sender specifies and with authority, > > states them to be the views of Tappe Construction Co. > > > > This footer also confirms that this email message has been scanned > > for the presence of computer viruses.Scanning of this message and > > addition of this footer is performed by SurfControl E-mail Filter software > > in conjunction with virus detection software. > > > > -- > > _______________________________________________ > > AccessD mailing list > > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From DWUTKA at marlow.com Fri Mar 19 17:07:44 2004 From: DWUTKA at marlow.com (DWUTKA at marlow.com) Date: Fri, 19 Mar 2004 17:07:44 -0600 Subject: [AccessD] Using Access for Reports w/an ASP app? Message-ID: <2F8793082E00D4119A1700B0D0216BF802227999@main2.marlow.com> I have a personal side project I call 'wolfweb'. It was built for displaying Access reports on the web. My company has several 'report' databases. One such database has about 900 reports. Most of these reports prompt the users with dialog boxes. The problem with taking a database like that to the web, is that you have to rebuild every report, in order to get around the dialog boxes. I did about 4 or 5 reports like that. Took two to eight hours a peice. I had to rebuild the query behind the report (along with some report modification), then build an ASP page to ask for the criteria. Doing that for 900 reports was not going to work. While it may have provided job security until I was 50, it would have probably killed me long before then. So I built wolfweb. WolfWeb is a multi-threaded VB program. Here's how it works. The first ASP page asks for what database you want to use. (In the working copies of wolfweb, the db is hardcoded...). Once it knows the database, the next asp page displays two combo boxes, one for the report (which lists all of the reports in the database), the next is the format that you want the report displayed in. When you select those, and continue, WolfWeb (which I have running on a separate machine from our Intranet (where the ASP pages are residing) goes and opens an instance of Access, and runs the report. At the same time, it starts another thread, which watches the Access window. When it 'sees' a dialog window open for the Access Window, it 'diagrams' it, and sends that back to the requesting asp page, which then builds an exact 'HTML' version of the dialog box. The user can then enter what they want into the HTML 'dialog' box, and when they submit that, their data entry is replicated on the WolfWeb server (by the watching thread), and the process continues until the report is created. Then the asp page redirects to the new 'temp' file which is the report saved in the format of their choice. Works like a charm. Only known bug is that if the dialog windows are interacted with the Enter key, instead of a mouse click, it gets goofy. I already have a little Java script to disable the enter key (in fact, wrote it working on the AccessD archives), just have never gotten around to implementing it. WolfWeb has been running here for over a year now, without any real hitches. The BIG catch, and the reason I never finished it to sell it as a completed product, is the fact that Access doesn't treat it's forms like normal windows. WolfWeb eats through dialog boxes (criteria prompts, login prompts, etc....(the two databases wolfweb is running for are both reporting engines for an Oracle database, and WolfWeb handles the ODBC login just like any other dialog window...), however, if a form is used for the reports criteria, it will just prompt the user as if the form isn't open (which it isn't). I figured out that instead of dealing with the Access forms like windows, I would have to use VB to 'diagram' the form, by looping through it's controls. Figured out how to do it, just never got around to developing that, because it had already sucked up a lot of my time. So, if you don't have forms to ask for report criteria, WolfWeb would probably do the trick for you. I'd be willing to sell ya the source for it for $50 and a couple of beers the next time your in Dallas! Drew -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Christopher Hawkins Sent: Friday, March 19, 2004 11:03 AM To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: [AccessD] Using Access for Reports w/an ASP app? Greetings! Here's my deal - I have a spectacularly cheap client who brought me on to fix an Access application that was botched by another programmer (90% of my business falls into this category. :P), but they've decided that Access is at least partly to blame for the failure of the project (again, I say :P). So they want me to re-write the front-end in ASP. No problem there - most of the problems are in the UI; the schema is surprisingly good, considering the UI (it's truly poor). The roadblock I'm encountering is this: how do I make sure they can still access their reports? They have some pretty complex reports in that Access app, and they won't pay for Crystal. I was thinking that I'd leave a copy of their Access mdb on the web server and then write a dll that would open a report, write it ti pdf, and then return it to the browser. The only problem is...I have no idea how to do that. I also don't know if it's a smart thing to do. I also don't knwo if they'll want to pay for the dev time. Barring the above idea, is anyone aware of a cheap or free web reporting utility/tool/component that I can use to either leverage their existing reports, or re-create them for web use without having to go with something expensive like Crystal? -Christopher- -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From ssharkins at bellsouth.net Fri Mar 19 17:20:40 2004 From: ssharkins at bellsouth.net (Susan Harkins) Date: Fri, 19 Mar 2004 18:20:40 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Using Access for Reports w/an ASP app? In-Reply-To: <2F8793082E00D4119A1700B0D0216BF802227999@main2.marlow.com> Message-ID: <20040319232037.EQKB2496.imf22aec.mail.bellsouth.net@SUSANONE> Drew -- this really isn't in response to your post, but just a general question that relates more back to the original problem -- kind of.. Does the Snapshot Viewer control solution have some advantage over XML? Since Access automatically generates web-ready files, I'm curious why someone might choose the control solution instead. It's easy to pull together, but so is an XM-based solution. Is there some advantage. Susan H. I have a personal side project I call 'wolfweb'. It was built for displaying Access reports on the web. My company has several 'report' databases. One such database has about 900 reports. Most of these reports prompt the users with dialog boxes. The problem with taking a database like that to the web, is that you have to rebuild every report, in order to get around the dialog boxes. I did about 4 or 5 reports like that. Took two to eight hours a peice. I had to rebuild the query behind the report (along with some report modification), then build an ASP page to ask for the criteria. Doing that for 900 reports was not going to work. While it may have provided job security until I was 50, it would have probably killed me long before then. So I built wolfweb. WolfWeb is a multi-threaded VB program. Here's how it works. The first ASP page asks for what database you want to use. (In the working copies of wolfweb, the db is hardcoded...). Once it knows the database, the next asp page displays two combo boxes, one for the report (which lists all of the reports in the database), the next is the format that you want the report displayed in. When you select those, and continue, WolfWeb (which I have running on a separate machine from our Intranet (where the ASP pages are residing) goes and opens an instance of Access, and runs the report. At the same time, it starts another thread, which watches the Access window. When it 'sees' a dialog window open for the Access Window, it 'diagrams' it, and sends that back to the requesting asp page, which then builds an exact 'HTML' version of the dialog box. The user can then enter what they want into the HTML 'dialog' box, and when they submit that, their data entry is replicated on the WolfWeb server (by the watching thread), and the process continues until the report is created. Then the asp page redirects to the new 'temp' file which is the report saved in the format of their choice. Works like a charm. Only known bug is that if the dialog windows are interacted with the Enter key, instead of a mouse click, it gets goofy. I already have a little Java script to disable the enter key (in fact, wrote it working on the AccessD archives), just have never gotten around to implementing it. WolfWeb has been running here for over a year now, without any real hitches. The BIG catch, and the reason I never finished it to sell it as a completed product, is the fact that Access doesn't treat it's forms like normal windows. WolfWeb eats through dialog boxes (criteria prompts, login prompts, etc....(the two databases wolfweb is running for are both reporting engines for an Oracle database, and WolfWeb handles the ODBC login just like any other dialog window...), however, if a form is used for the reports criteria, it will just prompt the user as if the form isn't open (which it isn't). I figured out that instead of dealing with the Access forms like windows, I would have to use VB to 'diagram' the form, by looping through it's controls. Figured out how to do it, just never got around to developing that, because it had already sucked up a lot of my time. So, if you don't have forms to ask for report criteria, WolfWeb would probably do the trick for you. I'd be willing to sell ya the source for it for $50 and a couple of beers the next time your in Dallas! Drew -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Christopher Hawkins Sent: Friday, March 19, 2004 11:03 AM To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: [AccessD] Using Access for Reports w/an ASP app? Greetings! Here's my deal - I have a spectacularly cheap client who brought me on to fix an Access application that was botched by another programmer (90% of my business falls into this category. :P), but they've decided that Access is at least partly to blame for the failure of the project (again, I say :P). So they want me to re-write the front-end in ASP. No problem there - most of the problems are in the UI; the schema is surprisingly good, considering the UI (it's truly poor). The roadblock I'm encountering is this: how do I make sure they can still access their reports? They have some pretty complex reports in that Access app, and they won't pay for Crystal. I was thinking that I'd leave a copy of their Access mdb on the web server and then write a dll that would open a report, write it ti pdf, and then return it to the browser. The only problem is...I have no idea how to do that. I also don't know if it's a smart thing to do. I also don't knwo if they'll want to pay for the dev time. Barring the above idea, is anyone aware of a cheap or free web reporting utility/tool/component that I can use to either leverage their existing reports, or re-create them for web use without having to go with something expensive like Crystal? -Christopher- -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From jmhla at earthlink.net Fri Mar 19 17:50:52 2004 From: jmhla at earthlink.net (jmhla at earthlink.net) Date: Fri, 19 Mar 2004 18:50:52 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Synchronize with Palm or PocketPC New ? Message-ID: <191690-220043519235052184@M2W092.mail2web.com> What do you need to run Access on a Palm PDA? I got the access side? Original Message: ----------------- From: Dan Waters dwaters at usinternet.com Date: Fri, 19 Mar 2004 14:04:02 -0600 To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: [AccessD] Synchronize with Palm or PocketPC Hello everyone, I have a client where a possibly good solution would be to enter information into a PDA and then synchronize it with an Access app once per day. Can anyone point me in a direction to learn more about this? Anyone have any good/lousy experiences? Thanks! Dan Waters -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -------------------------------------------------------------------- mail2web - Check your email from the web at http://mail2web.com/ . From jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com Fri Mar 19 19:08:08 2004 From: jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com (John W. Colby) Date: Fri, 19 Mar 2004 20:08:08 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Framework Discussion - Service Classes Message-ID: Framework Discussion ? Service Classes It is time to discuss the framework foundation and some programming concepts that we need to be using to make our projects as stable as possible. We will be using many service classes, classes which provide a service to the framework and even to the Application itself ? services such as zip / unzip, encrypt / un-encrypt, Sysvars and the like. There are a couple of ways that we can implement this functionality. We will discuss these variations, why we would use one or the other and then I will select the one I like to use (a framework class) and begin building that. Service classes on demand Service classes are ?standalone? classes which just do something for the developer, provide some packaged functionality. The application might need to zip files to attach to email messages, so the developer could have a class that he instantiates at the moment he wants to use the zip service, then clean up after himself when he is done. The developer could dimension the variable in a form header, set the instance in the form?s Open event and clean up in the form?s Close event. Option Compare Database Option Explicit 'Create a variable to hold the zip class Dim fclsZip As dclsZip Private Sub Form_Close() 'cleanup the pointer to the class Set fclsZip = Nothing End Sub Private Sub Form_Open(Cancel As Integer) 'setup a pointer to the class Set fclsZip = New dclsZip End Sub Private Sub cmdZipTheFile_Click() fclsZip.AddFileSpec CurrentProject.Path & "\" & "1. Classes - Collections classes and Garbage collection.doc" fclsZip.Zip End Sub Or he could dim a class variable inside of a function and set / cleanup all right inside that function. Private Sub ZipIt() Dim fclsZip As dclsZip 'setup a pointer to the class Set fclsZip = New dclsZip 'do the zip fclsZip.AddFileSpec CurrentProject.Path & "\" & "1. Classes - Collections classes and Garbage collection.doc" fclsZip.Zip 'cleanup the pointer to the class Set fclsZip = Nothing End Sub These are probably the most common ways of using classes, and the ways that pop to mind for the majority of developers. There is certainly nothing wrong with doing things this way, however the developer has to dimension variables and set a class instance and remember to clean up afterwards. Service Classes as Services ? Old Style The ?framework? way of doing this is to set up the service globally, decide whether you need the service for this application, then if the app will need it, have the framework load the class once as the framework loads, and the framework cleans up the class as the framework unloads. Option Compare Database Option Explicit Private mclsZip As dclsZip Private mblnZipInitialized As Boolean Public Function ZipInit() If mblnZipInitialized = False Then 'setup a pointer to the class Set mclsZip = New dclsZip mblnZipInitialized = True End If End Function Public Function ZipTerm() 'cleanup the pointer to the class Set mclsZip = Nothing End Function Public Function cZip() As dclsZip ZipInit Set cZip = mclsZip End Function Your app can if desired just call the cZip function which initializes the zip class if it is not initialized, then returns a pointer to the class which you use to zip your file. Generally though you would place a call to the zip class? init in your framework?s init function, and a call to the zip class? term in your framework?s term(). Private mblnFWInitialized As Boolean Function FWInit() If mblnFWInitialized = False Then ' mblnFWInitialized = True ZipInit End If End Function Function FWTerm() ZipTerm End FunctionPrivate mblnFWInitialized As Boolean This lets the framework worry about what is required to set it up and what is required to clean it up. The zip class is just a service and is available if you need it. Of course it is inefficient to load services that the app simply doesn?t need. Once we have covered the SysVar class I will show you how to turn on/off services using SysVars, and even how to override the default behaviors inside of the application to turn on a service that is off by default (as Zip would normally be). So this method basically sets up a global (but private) pointer to a service class, then provides functions to init(), Term() and return a pointer to the class. This is one step up from the first method we described where the developer does it all right in the form / function where the class is used. This method provides the advantage of having the class initialized and terminated automatically which is a good thing, the developer no longer has to worry about that stuff, and as we know forgetting to terminate classes can have serious consequences so the fact that the framework cleans it up for us is a major reason to use this method. The downside is that generally, once loaded it stays loaded. This may or may not actually be a downside, occasionally a service class has to do some time consuming setup task and once loaded it is just better to leave it loaded. Again, it is up to the developer to decide which is right for him, but my feeling is that in modern computers if my application needs to zip a file, the memory overhead of leaving a zip class loaded is acceptable, I?m not going to worry too much about the additional few Kbytes of memory. In many cases it is possible to set up service classes that you can load and unload at will, while still allowing the framework supervisor to do the init() / term(), so if you are the type that is going to lose sleep over leaving the class loaded, look at doing that. Service Classes as Services ? Framework Foundation Style My preference is to use a class that is the foundation of the framework, which I will call clsFramework. ClsFramework is then initialized in an Init module and a pointer to that class is passed back to the caller. The service classes all have variables dimensioned in the header of clsFramework and clsFramework then has methods that pass pointers to the various service classes back to the caller. The module that initializes and terminates the framework looks like: Option Compare Database Option Explicit Private mcnn As ADODB.Connection 'currentproject connection Private mfwcnn As ADODB.Connection 'A connection for the code project Private mclsFramework As clsFramework 'The framework foundation class Private mblnFWInitialized As Boolean 'A boolean to tell us that we have already initialized Function FWInit() If mblnFWInitialized = False Then ' mblnFWInitialized = True Set mfwcnn = CodeProject.Connection Set mcnn = CurrentProject.Connection Randomize Set mclsFramework = New clsFramework mclsFramework.Init Nothing End If End Function Function FWTerm() mclsFramework.Term Set mclsFramework = Nothing End Function Function FW() As clsFramework Set FW = mclsFramework End Function Function gcnn() As ADODB.Connection Set gcnn = mcnn End Function Function gfwcnn() As ADODB.Connection Set gfwcnn = mfwcnn End Function A couple of notes: One programming ?best practices? says that we should make our global variables for things like the framework class ?read only? by dimming them private in a module. We then perform our initialization and create a function that returns a pointer to that ?read only? variable. This allows the developer to use the framework (or other variable) freely but doesn?t allow them to unintentionally (or intentionally) set that variable to nothing, inadvertently crashing the system. Thus I have a private framework variable, an Init() that gets called to initialize the framework, a term() that is called to shut down the framework, and a function that returns a pointer to the framework class instance. Notice I also have ?global? pointer functions to the application and framework project (Access FEs) connections for ADO. We need both since we will eventually be referencing data in the framework (Sysvars) as well as in the Application. Now that we have a framework class, when we need service classes we just put private variables for those classes in the header of that class and allow the init of the framework class to initialize the service classes. clsFramework is just our template class as the base, with stuff added so we have already seen all of the generic ?framework? stuff that comes with any class in our system. We dim a couple of variables to handle the zip class. '*+ custom variables declarations 'Service class for Zip Private mclsZip As dclsZip Private mblnZipInitialized As Boolean '*- custom variables declarations As I have mentioned before, we use the class? Initialize event to set all of our class and collection pointers to new instances of that object. This will change once we get a SysVars class functioning but for now: Private Sub Class_Initialize() Set mclsZip = New dclsZip End Sub In the Init() of the framework class we initialize the zip class: Public Sub Init(ByRef robjParent As Object) mclsZip.Init Nothing End Sub And in the term of the framework class we cleanup the zip class: Public Sub Term() mclsZip.Term Set mclsZip = Nothing End Sub All of which allows the framework to do the work for us of setting up and cleaning up the various service classes. We can if we wish set up a private method of the framework class to initialize the zip class: '*+PRIVATE Class function / sub declaration Private Function ZipInit() If mblnZipInitialized = False Then 'setup a pointer to the class Set mclsZip = New dclsZip mblnZipInitialized = True End If End Function '*-PRIVATE Class function / sub declaration This allows us to not initialize the class in the framework?s Init() or Initialize and simply do so when and if the service class is ever used. We then build a method in the framework class to expose the pointer to the service class: '*+PUBLIC Class function / sub declaration Public Function cZip() As dclsZip ZipInit Set cZip = mclsZip End Function '*-PUBLIC Class function / sub declaration This has a tiny overhead of calling the init function for the Zip class every time we try to get a pointer to the class, but that may be acceptable to avoid having the class always loaded. So now, in your code to zip a file you simply call the function that gets a pointer to the framework: Fw Add a reference to the zip method of the framework class, which of course gets a pointer to the zip class: Fw.cZip Then call the various properties / methods of that class: Fw.cZip.ZipFile = CurrentProject.Path & "\" & "TextZipDemoCtlClassV2.Zip" Summary My preference when building is to build a foundation class which is tasked with setting up and tearing down all of the various classes that will be used by the framework itself or the application as services. One of the advantages of this is that you no longer have to worry about exposing all of the various classes in the framework library, plus you get the peace of mind of knowing that the framework foundation class will handle all of the work of setting up and tearing down the classes automatically. If we develop the framework correctly, once it is in use in the application we won?t be forgetting to terminate a class somewhere and hanging Access or even Windows. Class programming can be made easier by using a framework to handle all of the setup and teardown processes for us. Of course we still have to get it all set up and working as a framework, but once in use out in your application it all just runs like a well oiled machine, always, every time. John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com From jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com Fri Mar 19 19:32:45 2004 From: jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com (John W. Colby) Date: Fri, 19 Mar 2004 20:32:45 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] RE: [Accessed] New EMail Address In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Thanks for reminding me of this. I used a service that builds that numeric string (and hope they aren't spammers;) webemail@colbycon 15;ulting.com Used Dreamweaver to search and replace the old mailto, then put it to my site. Should all be fixed up. Now if that address starts getting hammered we will know that either the service that built the string was a spammer or the harvesters aren't fooled by this trick. In the end however, the email address is a custom address just for my web site and I can change it on a moment's notice. John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Jim Lawrence (AccessD) Sent: Thursday, March 18, 2004 11:28 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] New EMail Address Hi John: Do not forget to set up your new address in the contact section of your web site as follows so spam-bots will not be able just extract it. (It does not matter what shows on the screen, it is what is in the page code that the 'bots' search for.) HTH Jim -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of John W. Colby Sent: Thursday, March 18, 2004 7:59 PM To: AccessD Subject: [AccessD] New EMail Address Anyone who has me in their address book should note that my email address has changed to jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com (notice the W). I have turned off jcolby at colbyconsulting.com due to an overwhelming flood of spam, approaching 300 spam emails a day. While my email filter was extremely accurate in getting them out of my inbox there is the occasional (1 in 500 or so) false positives where a good email gets put out in the spam folder. It is getting very hard to find them so it's time to just shut that email box down. Sorry for the inconvenience. John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com Fri Mar 19 19:35:54 2004 From: jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com (John W. Colby) Date: Fri, 19 Mar 2004 20:35:54 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Latest fw demo - Service Classes Message-ID: The latest demo database is on my site - click on C2DbFW3G and select v4. It includes a functioning zip form and the classes, module and dlls to use that. If you extract the entire contents of the zip file the zip form should create a zipped file from one of the databases. John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com From artful at rogers.com Fri Mar 19 23:06:05 2004 From: artful at rogers.com (Arthur Fuller) Date: Fri, 19 Mar 2004 21:06:05 -0800 Subject: [AccessD] Short Date Input Mask question In-Reply-To: <009501c40c21$7af0c4f0$c81e65cb@winxp> Message-ID: <000001c40e39$0c4e9da0$6501a8c0@rock> Sadly, your contribution won't work. There's no such thing as default month or year in this particular app. At some point in the future when the org is all caught up, we may get there. At the moment it's 40-60 whether the user is inputting data 10 years old -- or today's. -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of A.D.Tejpal Sent: Wednesday, March 17, 2004 5:12 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Short Date Input Mask question Arthur, Key strokes for date fields could be minimized by setting an input mask incorporating pre-filled default month & year. If it could be of any help, you could look at my sample db named InputMask_dynamic at Rogers Access Library (other developers section) - http://www.rogersaccesslibrary.com Amongst other things (e.g. phone nos etc.), it demonstrates input mask for date field, with desired month & year pre-filled. It may be mentioned that the option is not confined merely to the current month & year (which of course is the default option when the data entry form opens). The user can set any other desired values for either. Regards, A.D.Tejpal ----- Original Message ----- From: Gustav Brock To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Sent: Wednesday, March 17, 2004 15:15 Subject: Re: [AccessD] Short Date Input Mask question Hi Arthur It's not a shortcoming. Input masks are called this as their purpose is to force the user to follow an input sequence - not to type "something" that can be interpreted as a date string. As Bryan has stated, one of the features of Access is that it does a pretty good job of transferring "something" typed in a textbox into a full date string. As such, it can assume a default year; could Access also assume a default month (so "20" would turn into "2004-03-20") we would approach Paradise. Having said that, I once used input masks for entry of time on the format hh:nn where the user can either tab into the textbox or click at some arbitrary position in it and type ahead while preserving default values for all digits. As you all know, input must be limited to 0-2, 0-9 OR 0-4, 0-5 for the first three positions - not an easy task, but it can be done. The inputmask helps as it allows you to set the start and length of the selection no matter what the user has typed or how he/she is editing. /gustav > The standard short date input mask (99/99/0000;0;_) has a shortcoming > that I hate: you have to type 04/04/04 to get April 4th 2004. The year > handling is nice but the month and day suck. The mask won't let you type > 4/4/04. Is there an alternative mask that will respond intelligently to > such input? Or should I instead just remove all the input masks from all > the date fields? > TIA, > Arthur -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From artful at rogers.com Fri Mar 19 23:10:53 2004 From: artful at rogers.com (Arthur Fuller) Date: Fri, 19 Mar 2004 21:10:53 -0800 Subject: [AccessD] Short Date Input Mask question In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <000101c40e39$b8af7dd0$6501a8c0@rock> Thanks Bryan! Yo Canada! -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Bryan Carbonnell Sent: Wednesday, March 17, 2004 6:12 AM To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: RE: [AccessD] Short Date Input Mask question Well, here is a start for the tables Arthur. Can't help wiht the forms though. First off, set a reference to DAO and add the following sub. It will get rid of the InputMasks in all the tables. I only tested it against local tables, so linked tables may or may not work. IF these changes are going to be distributed to and end user's site and you can't get at the "working" data, you may want to have a look at the BEU. Anyway, here is the code: Sub ClearInputMask() Dim db As DAO.Database Dim tdf As DAO.TableDef Dim fld As DAO.Field Set db = CurrentDb() 'Looop through all the tabledefs For Each tdf In db.TableDefs 'loop through all the fields in the tabledef If Left$(tdf.Name, 4) <> "Msys" Then For Each fld In tdf.Fields 'See if the field is a date field If fld.Type = dbDate Then 'A date/time field 'Ignore errors, because one will be generated if there ' is no input mask defined On Error Resume Next fld.Properties.Delete "InputMask" End If Next End If Next Set fld = Nothing Set tdf = Nothing Set db = Nothing End Sub Bryan Carbonnell bryan_carbonnell at cbc.ca From d.dick at uws.edu.au Sat Mar 20 03:36:48 2004 From: d.dick at uws.edu.au (Darren DICK) Date: Sat, 20 Mar 2004 20:36:48 +1100 Subject: [AccessD] A2K: Stop Code, Accept Input then restart code References: Message-ID: <007b01c40e60$248d8440$43669a89@DDICK> Thanks John and Jim I'll give it a go (both) methods Darren ----- Original Message ----- From: "Jim Lawrence (AccessD)" To: "Access Developers discussion and problem solving" Sent: Friday, March 19, 2004 1:34 PM Subject: RE: [AccessD] A2K: Stop Code, Accept Input then restart code > Hi Darren: > > Run the second or third form from the 'on timer' event that should allow > multiple processes to run or/and use the DoEvents.. > > > globalvariable1 = True > DoCmd.OpenForm "Form2" > > Do While globalvariable1 = True > DoEvents > Loop > > DoCmd.Close ,"Form2", acSaveYes > > > This will hold things relatively static until any process unsets the global > variable. > > HTH > Jim > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Darren DICK > Sent: Thursday, March 18, 2004 6:06 PM > To: AccessD List > Subject: [AccessD] A2K: Stop Code, Accept Input then restart code > > > Hello all > I have code on Form 1 that alerts the user to something > What I want to do is half way through the alert code, stop the alert code, > open form 2 (a popup form) > Allow user to select a value from a combo on Form 2. Close form 2 then pass > that value from Form 2 > back to the Alert code on Form 1 and continue processing the Alert code > using the value passed from Form 2 > > What I don't know how to do is...Stop processing the Alert Code in Form 1 - > I do know how to get ....A value from Form 2 > What I don't know how to do is...Start processing the Alert Code in Form 1 > again with the new value > > Make sense? Am I going about this the right way? > > Many thanks in advance > > Darren > > > > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From HollisVJ at pgdp.usec.com Sat Mar 20 08:27:19 2004 From: HollisVJ at pgdp.usec.com (Hollis,Virginia) Date: Sat, 20 Mar 2004 08:27:19 -0600 Subject: [AccessD] Quotes Wrong - Format Message-ID: <618EB4D6DDCDD3119B0A00508B6FD37A0CB0D38E@cntexchange.pgdp.usec.com> Me.lblNew.Caption = "You are adding Request Task" & Nz(DMax((Format("[RequestTask]", """VEN-""0000")), "qry_VenTask")) + 1 When I go to a new record, I want the caption of lblNew to show "You are adding Request Task VEN-0041", with the RequestTask number formatted with the 0000s. I am having problems with formatting VEN-0041. Without the Format('[RequestTask].... I get just the number 0041. I think it is the placement of my quotes? Virginia From gustav at cactus.dk Sat Mar 20 08:41:49 2004 From: gustav at cactus.dk (Gustav Brock) Date: Sat, 20 Mar 2004 15:41:49 +0100 Subject: [AccessD] Quotes Wrong - Format In-Reply-To: <618EB4D6DDCDD3119B0A00508B6FD37A0CB0D38E@cntexchange.pgdp.usec.com> References: <618EB4D6DDCDD3119B0A00508B6FD37A0CB0D38E@cntexchange.pgdp.usec.com> Message-ID: <17520466679.20040320154149@cactus.dk> Hi Virginia I think you've got it "turned inside out" ... Try this (note the space): Me.lblNew.Caption = "You are adding Request Task " & Format( _ Nz(DMax("[RequestTask]", "qry_VenTask"), 0) + 1, _ "\V\E\N\-0000") /gustav > Me.lblNew.Caption = "You are adding Request Task" & > Nz(DMax((Format("[RequestTask]", """VEN-""0000")), "qry_VenTask")) + 1 > When I go to a new record, I want the caption of lblNew to show "You are > adding Request Task VEN-0041", with the RequestTask number formatted with > the 0000s. I am having problems with formatting VEN-0041. Without the > Format('[RequestTask].... I get just the number 0041. I think it is the > placement of my quotes? > Virginia From dwaters at usinternet.com Sat Mar 20 08:52:59 2004 From: dwaters at usinternet.com (Dan Waters) Date: Sat, 20 Mar 2004 08:52:59 -0600 Subject: [AccessD] Synchronize with Palm or PocketPC New ? In-Reply-To: <1742636.1079740424499.JavaMail.root@sniper.marix.com> Message-ID: <000001c40e8b$09d69f80$de1811d8@DanWaters> I would like to collect data on a PDA (Palm or PocketPC), and then synchronize it later with an Access database. The scenario is that shop floor inspectors don't have PC access, can use a PDA. At the end of their shift, they can go to a PC somewhere else an synchronize the data into the database on the PC. I don't need to run Access on a PDA. Dan -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of jmhla at earthlink.net Sent: Friday, March 19, 2004 5:51 PM To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: RE: [AccessD] Synchronize with Palm or PocketPC New ? What do you need to run Access on a Palm PDA? I got the access side? Original Message: ----------------- From: Dan Waters dwaters at usinternet.com Date: Fri, 19 Mar 2004 14:04:02 -0600 To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: [AccessD] Synchronize with Palm or PocketPC Hello everyone, I have a client where a possibly good solution would be to enter information into a PDA and then synchronize it with an Access app once per day. Can anyone point me in a direction to learn more about this? Anyone have any good/lousy experiences? Thanks! Dan Waters -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -------------------------------------------------------------------- mail2web - Check your email from the web at http://mail2web.com/ . -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From mikedorism at adelphia.net Sat Mar 20 08:58:20 2004 From: mikedorism at adelphia.net (Mike & Doris Manning) Date: Sat, 20 Mar 2004 09:58:20 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Quotes Wrong - Format In-Reply-To: <618EB4D6DDCDD3119B0A00508B6FD37A0CB0D38E@cntexchange.pgdp.usec.com> Message-ID: <000001c40e8b$c94100e0$6ae44344@hargrove.internal> Try... Me.lblNew.Caption = "You are adding Request Task VEN-" & Nz(DMax((Format("[RequestTask]", "0000")), "qry_VenTask")) + 1 Doris Manning Database Administrator Hargrove Inc. www.hargroveinc.com -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Hollis,Virginia Sent: Saturday, March 20, 2004 9:27 AM To: 'AccessD at databaseadvisors.com' Subject: [AccessD] Quotes Wrong - Format Me.lblNew.Caption = "You are adding Request Task" & Nz(DMax((Format("[RequestTask]", """VEN-""0000")), "qry_VenTask")) + 1 When I go to a new record, I want the caption of lblNew to show "You are adding Request Task VEN-0041", with the RequestTask number formatted with the 0000s. I am having problems with formatting VEN-0041. Without the Format('[RequestTask].... I get just the number 0041. I think it is the placement of my quotes? Virginia -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From HollisVJ at pgdp.usec.com Sat Mar 20 08:55:48 2004 From: HollisVJ at pgdp.usec.com (Hollis,Virginia) Date: Sat, 20 Mar 2004 08:55:48 -0600 Subject: [AccessD] Quotes Wrong - Format Message-ID: <618EB4D6DDCDD3119B0A00508B6FD37A0CB0D38F@cntexchange.pgdp.usec.com> That worked, Thanks. I get it, I had to format the complete expression, not just the task. Just like me this week - all inside out & a little upside down (bad week). :-) -----Original Message----- From: Gustav Brock [mailto:gustav at cactus.dk] Sent: Saturday, March 20, 2004 8:42 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Quotes Wrong - Format Hi Virginia I think you've got it "turned inside out" ... Try this (note the space): Me.lblNew.Caption = "You are adding Request Task " & Format( _ Nz(DMax("[RequestTask]", "qry_VenTask"), 0) + 1, _ "\V\E\N\-0000") /gustav > Me.lblNew.Caption = "You are adding Request Task" & > Nz(DMax((Format("[RequestTask]", """VEN-""0000")), "qry_VenTask")) + 1 > When I go to a new record, I want the caption of lblNew to show "You are > adding Request Task VEN-0041", with the RequestTask number formatted with > the 0000s. I am having problems with formatting VEN-0041. Without the > Format('[RequestTask].... I get just the number 0041. I think it is the > placement of my quotes? > Virginia -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From bchacc at san.rr.com Sat Mar 20 09:07:47 2004 From: bchacc at san.rr.com (Rocky Smolin - Beach Access Software) Date: Sat, 20 Mar 2004 07:07:47 -0800 Subject: [AccessD] Version of Jet Message-ID: <002601c40e8d$1b3dd070$6601a8c0@HAL9002> Dear List: How do I determine which versions of Jet are loaded on my system? Thanks in advance, Rocky Smolin Beach Access Software http://www.e-z-mrp.com From music at weblnk.net Sat Mar 20 09:26:17 2004 From: music at weblnk.net (Jason Strickland) Date: Sat, 20 Mar 2004 10:26:17 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Synchronize with Palm or PocketPC New ? In-Reply-To: <000001c40e8b$09d69f80$de1811d8@DanWaters> Message-ID: <200403201527.i2KFQtM10132@databaseadvisors.com> Ddhsoftware.com Handbase software is what you are looking for I believe We are getting ready to implement surveys via PDAs and sync the data into Access so I believe this will work for you. http://ddhsoftware.com/syncexchange_access.html Regards Jason -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Dan Waters Sent: Saturday, March 20, 2004 9:53 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: [AccessD] Synchronize with Palm or PocketPC New ? I would like to collect data on a PDA (Palm or PocketPC), and then synchronize it later with an Access database. The scenario is that shop floor inspectors don't have PC access, can use a PDA. At the end of their shift, they can go to a PC somewhere else an synchronize the data into the database on the PC. I don't need to run Access on a PDA. Dan -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of jmhla at earthlink.net Sent: Friday, March 19, 2004 5:51 PM To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: RE: [AccessD] Synchronize with Palm or PocketPC New ? What do you need to run Access on a Palm PDA? I got the access side? Original Message: ----------------- From: Dan Waters dwaters at usinternet.com Date: Fri, 19 Mar 2004 14:04:02 -0600 To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: [AccessD] Synchronize with Palm or PocketPC Hello everyone, I have a client where a possibly good solution would be to enter information into a PDA and then synchronize it with an Access app once per day. Can anyone point me in a direction to learn more about this? Anyone have any good/lousy experiences? Thanks! Dan Waters -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -------------------------------------------------------------------- mail2web - Check your email from the web at http://mail2web.com/ . -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From artful at rogers.com Sat Mar 20 12:44:25 2004 From: artful at rogers.com (Arthur Fuller) Date: Sat, 20 Mar 2004 10:44:25 -0800 Subject: [AccessD] Short Date Input Mask question In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <000001c40eab$6358d8a0$6501a8c0@rock> I'm 100% there with you on this, Bryan. I remember once designing an app for a jeweller with 30,000 products in stock... And he knew the code for every single one! It was absurd. He simply did not fail. All my cool lookup techniques (combos, listboxes, etc.) seemed to him completely pointless. Ditto popup calendars and similar "enhancements". Keyboard people hate taking their hands off the keyboard. Especially in OLTP apps, operator speed is paramount. Arthur -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Bryan Carbonnell Sent: Wednesday, March 17, 2004 6:52 AM To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: RE: [AccessD] Short Date Input Mask question Lambert, It may work fine for you, but does it work for your users? Do you force them to use the mouse to select the date, or can they do everything they need to from the keyboard? The only reason I bring this up is that I have had RSI from moving between the mouse and keyboard for data entry too much. It got to the point where by 10 AM I could not feel my little finger and half of my lower arm becaude of it. As soon as I got one application that I used on a regular basis more keyboard friendly it helped. Just try to keep that in mind. I know I always do. I let users use the mouse or enter with the keyboard. Their choice. Bryan Carbonnell bryan_carbonnell at cbc.ca >>> Lambert.Heenan at AIG.com 17-Mar-04 9:21:45 AM >>> My solution to date entry is simple - I never let user's type in a date. They always pick the date from a simple calendar form (though I don't use the MS Calendar control). Click on a date field and up pops the date picker. While this would not be suitable, perhaps, in applications where massive numbers of dates need to be entered, I find it works just fine for me. Lambert -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From martyconnelly at shaw.ca Sat Mar 20 10:11:38 2004 From: martyconnelly at shaw.ca (MartyConnelly) Date: Sat, 20 Mar 2004 08:11:38 -0800 Subject: [AccessD] Connect to DB2 References: <67B2D43A2067B248A36B007650A2312C35F88A@PSJOE2K1.fxfwest.freight.fedex.com> <405B4F13.302@shaw.ca> Message-ID: <405C6D3A.5090200@shaw.ca> These might help too: Getting Started with DB2 V8 and ADO using Visual Basic 6 http://www-106.ibm.com/developerworks/db2/library/techarticle/0302hasin/0302hasin.html DB2 Development Add-Ins for Visual Studio 6.0 - The Next Generation AD Tooling In here is description of auto tool to generate ADO connection string called DB2 Development Add-In for Visual Basic 6.0 It will generate a string complete with sample code based on the driver used. http://www-106.ibm.com/developerworks/db2/library/techarticle/0208alazzawe/0208alazzawe.html Leverage your SQL Server 2000 Skills to Learn DB2 UDB v8 http://searchdatabase.techtarget.com/tip/1,289483,sid13_gci947038,00.html?FromTaxonomy=%2Fpr%2F286330 Just in case you have installed DB2 incorrectly see Installing and configuring DB2 UDB V8 http://searchdatabase.techtarget.com/tip/1,289483,sid13_gci931151,00.html?FromTaxonomy=%2Fpr%2F286330 MartyConnelly wrote: > > That provider doesn't come with MDAC. It only comes with MS HIS Server > The Host Integration Server 2000 (was MS SNA server). You are now > talking in $2,500 range I think plus cost of win2003 or 2000 server > You have to differentiate between whether you are connecting via SNA > or TCP/IP > There is a HIS Beta available and a 120 day trial > http://www.microsoft.com/hiserver/beta/default.asp > > see this newsgroup microsoft.public.snaserver.programming > > Host Integration Server is an integration solution for connectivity > to a mainframe OS/390 (appears as a cluster > controller, PU2 device), AS/400 OS/400 (appears as a PU2.1 LEN node) > > Symtrax iSeries OLE DB Driver free trial for AS400 > http://www.symtrax.com/en/products/oledb/ > > Or you might get IBM's oledb version, it maybe inside Free Personal > DB2 edition, haven't looked in a few years. > There is another version for dotNet. > > DB2 Personal Developer's Edition (DB2 Personal Developers Edition for > Windows (x86, 32-bit)) 500 Meg download > http://www14.software.ibm.com/webapp/download/preconfig.jsp?id=2003-09-12+10%3A53%3A49.025154R&S_TACT=TrialsAndBetas&S_CMP=&s= > > > Millard, Paul --- Sr. Developer Analyst ---WGO wrote: > >> Yeah, I found this site yesterday and plugged in the oledb db2 >> connection string and Access gave me an error about cannot find a >> provider. >> How does one get a provider for db2? >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com >> [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Jim Lawrence >> (AccessD) >> Sent: Thursday, March 18, 2004 6:07 PM >> To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving >> Subject: RE: [AccessD] Connect to DB2 >> >> >> Hi Paul: >> >> Check this site out. It gives a number of DB2 connection examples >> depending >> on what and how you require the connection. >> >> http://www.able-consulting.com/ADO_Conn.htm >> >> HTH >> Jim >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com >> [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Millard, Paul >> --- Sr. Developer Analyst ---WGO >> Sent: Thursday, March 18, 2004 2:02 PM >> To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving >> Subject: [AccessD] Connect to DB2 >> >> >> >> Folks, >> >> Can anyone help me connect to a db2 database. I've seen multiple >> ways to >> connect using OLEDB Connection strings but I'm not sure what the >> database >> name and format should be. Below is a QMF SQL query tool .ini file >> used to >> connect to the database. >> >> If anyone can provide the string along with exact values based upon info >> below that would be great. >> >> Thanks, >> Paul >> >> [Server Parameters] >> Server1=HOST >> Server2=HOSTDSNB >> [HOST] >> RDBName=AFDSNP >> CollectionName=QMFWIN >> HostName=AFW1.HRO.AF.COM >> Port=446 >> SymDestName=*TCP/IP* >> DefaultSchedule1=Y00000078000003840009601710000012C0000000000000000000200000 >> >> 00007FDFFFE00002710XX >> DefaultSchedule2=@ >> 0000000000000000 >> DefaultSchedule3=2 >> DefaultSchedule4= >> QueryBlockSize=32500 >> DecimalDelimiter=Period >> StringDelimiter=Apostrophe >> IsolationLevel=CursorStability >> BindReplace=1 >> BindKeep=1 >> BindOwner= >> xSingleCCSID=37 >> xMixedCCSID=0 >> xDoubleCCSID=0 >> xQMFCCSID=37 >> [HOSTDSNB] >> RDBName=AFDSNT >> CollectionName=QMFWIN >> HostName=AFW2.HRO.AF.COM >> Port=5030 >> SymDestName=*TCP/IP* >> DefaultSchedule1=Y00000078000003840009601710000012C0000000000000000000200000 >> >> 00007FDFFFE00002710XX >> DefaultSchedule2=@ >> 0000000000000000 >> DefaultSchedule3=2 >> DefaultSchedule4= >> QueryBlockSize=32500 >> DecimalDelimiter=Period >> StringDelimiter=Apostrophe >> IsolationLevel=CursorStability >> BindReplace=1 >> BindKeep=1 >> BindOwner= >> xSingleCCSID=37 >> xMixedCCSID=0 >> xDoubleCCSID=0 >> xQMFCCSID=37 >> >> >> ********************************************************** >> This message contains information that is confidential >> and proprietary to FedEx Freight or its affiliates. >> It is intended only for the recipient named and for >> the express purpose(s) described therein. >> Any other use is prohibited. >> **************************************************************** >> >> -- >> _______________________________________________ >> AccessD mailing list >> AccessD at databaseadvisors.com >> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd >> Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com >> >> >> > -- Marty Connelly Victoria, B.C. Canada From davesharpe2 at cox.net Sat Mar 20 11:20:49 2004 From: davesharpe2 at cox.net (Dave Sharpe) Date: Sat, 20 Mar 2004 12:20:49 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Version of Jet References: <002601c40e8d$1b3dd070$6601a8c0@HAL9002> Message-ID: <001d01c40e9f$b0d9f700$dd2f0a44@bcsext6137> Rocky Page http://support.microsoft.com/default.aspx?kbid=239114 Entitled How To: Obtain the Latest Service Pack for the Microsoft Jet 4.0 Database Engine Contains a section How to Determine the Current Service Pack Level of Jet 4.0 Use the following steps to determine the Jet 4.0 service pack level that is currently installed on your computer. Note Because there are several versions of Microsoft Windows, the following steps may be different on your computer. If they are, see your product documentation to complete these steps. On the Start menu, click Search. In the Search Results pane, click All files and folders under Search Companion. In the All or part of the file name box, type msjet40.dll, and then click Search. In the list of files, right-click the Msjet40.dll file that is located in the Windows\System32 (or Windows\System) folder, and then click Properties. Click the Version tab, and then use the following table to determine the current Jet 4.0 service pack level: Msjet40.dll Version Jet 4.0 Service Pack Level 4.0.2927.4 Service Pack 3 (SP3) 4.0.3714.7 Service Pack 4 (SP4) 4.0.4431.1 or 4.0.4431.3 Service Pack 5 (SP5) 4.0.6218.0 Service Pack 6 (SP6) 4.0.6807.0 Service Pack 6 (SP6) shipped only with Windows Server 2003 4.0.7328.0 Service Pack 7 (SP7) 4.0.8015.0 Service Pack 8 (SP8) I hope that this helps. Dave ----- Original Message ----- From: "Rocky Smolin - Beach Access Software" To: Sent: Saturday, March 20, 2004 10:07 AM Subject: [AccessD] Version of Jet Dear List: How do I determine which versions of Jet are loaded on my system? Thanks in advance, Rocky Smolin Beach Access Software http://www.e-z-mrp.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From caa at highway.com.br Sat Mar 20 12:39:53 2004 From: caa at highway.com.br (Carlos Alberto Alves) Date: Sat, 20 Mar 2004 15:39:53 -0300 Subject: [AccessD] zip/unzip In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On Thu, 18 Mar 2004 10:08:21 -0600, wrote: > > > > > is this waht you are looking for > http://www.vbaccelerator.com/home/VB/Code/Libraries/Compression/Introduction_to_the_Info-ZIP_Libraries/Info-ZIP_Zip_DLL_(Renamed_vbzip10_dll).asp > There is another way to zip/unzip files from code. Go to WinZip page (or any other Zip utility that accepts command line) and download some docs with command line options. ZipCentral is a freeware utility that in its V4.0 accepts command line. Brazip is a brazilian utility (shareware found on http://www.brazip.com.br)that also accepts command line and has an English interface. In your code you can use a Shell to execute commands and options. I have both files (.PDF) for winZip. They are 90Kb. I may send it to you offline, if you wish. ;-) -- ****************************** * Carlos Alberto Alves * * Child Neurologist * * Systems Analyst/Programmer * * Rio de Janeiro, Brazil * * mailto:caa at highway.com.br * ****************************** From bchacc at san.rr.com Sat Mar 20 13:16:42 2004 From: bchacc at san.rr.com (Rocky Smolin - Beach Access Software) Date: Sat, 20 Mar 2004 11:16:42 -0800 Subject: [AccessD] Version of Jet References: <002601c40e8d$1b3dd070$6601a8c0@HAL9002> <001d01c40e9f$b0d9f700$dd2f0a44@bcsext6137> Message-ID: <00fc01c40eaf$e0d9c3d0$6601a8c0@HAL9002> Dave: Perfect. Thank you. Rocky ----- Original Message ----- From: "Dave Sharpe" To: "Access Developers discussion and problem solving" Sent: Saturday, March 20, 2004 9:20 AM Subject: Re: [AccessD] Version of Jet > Rocky > > Page > http://support.microsoft.com/default.aspx?kbid=239114 > > Entitled > How To: Obtain the Latest Service Pack for the Microsoft Jet 4.0 Database > Engine > > Contains a section > How to Determine the Current Service Pack Level of Jet 4.0 > Use the following steps to determine the Jet 4.0 service pack level that is > currently installed on your computer. > > Note Because there are several versions of Microsoft Windows, the following > steps may be different on your computer. If they are, see your product > documentation to complete these steps. > > On the Start menu, click Search. > > In the Search Results pane, click All files and folders under Search > Companion. > > In the All or part of the file name box, type msjet40.dll, and then click > Search. > > In the list of files, right-click the Msjet40.dll file that is located in > the Windows\System32 (or Windows\System) folder, and then click Properties. > > Click the Version tab, and then use the following table to determine the > current Jet 4.0 service pack level: > > Msjet40.dll Version Jet 4.0 Service Pack Level > 4.0.2927.4 Service Pack 3 (SP3) > 4.0.3714.7 Service Pack 4 (SP4) > 4.0.4431.1 or 4.0.4431.3 Service Pack 5 (SP5) > 4.0.6218.0 Service Pack 6 (SP6) > 4.0.6807.0 Service Pack 6 (SP6) shipped only with Windows Server 2003 > 4.0.7328.0 Service Pack 7 (SP7) > 4.0.8015.0 Service Pack 8 (SP8) > > I hope that this helps. > > Dave > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Rocky Smolin - Beach Access Software" > To: > Sent: Saturday, March 20, 2004 10:07 AM > Subject: [AccessD] Version of Jet > > > Dear List: > > How do I determine which versions of Jet are loaded on my system? > > Thanks in advance, > > Rocky Smolin > Beach Access Software > http://www.e-z-mrp.com > > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > From martyconnelly at shaw.ca Sat Mar 20 13:15:28 2004 From: martyconnelly at shaw.ca (MartyConnelly) Date: Sat, 20 Mar 2004 11:15:28 -0800 Subject: [AccessD] Version of Jet References: <002601c40e8d$1b3dd070$6601a8c0@HAL9002> <001d01c40e9f$b0d9f700$dd2f0a44@bcsext6137> Message-ID: <405C9850.1040804@shaw.ca> Here is some code, I've footled around with awhile ago. It only returns the Jet Version and Access Version of the Access Program running but you could adapt to search out all the Jet Versions installed Jet35, Jet40 etc. From Reinier Olislagers site http://www.xs4all.nl/~rolislag/accver/ It doesn't go back to Jet 1.0, I think you have to search DAO dll versions for this Code is missing a couple of versions 'Msjet40.dll 4.0.4431.1 Jet 5 SP 'Msjet40.dll 4.0.6218.0 Jet 6 SP ' Msjet40.dll 4.0.8015.0 Jet SP 8 'Here is what I get from Access 2003 Beta 2 or Access 11 'Access: 11.0.4920.5 (unknown Access version) 'Jet: 4.0.7328.0 (UNKNOWN ACCESS VERSION) Using latest SP7. 'I think original Beta 2 came with SP6 'There were a couple of Beta releases of SP7 ' there is also Jet SP8, haven't installed yet The DLL Hell database doesn't list all Jet Versions http://support.microsoft.com/default.aspx?scid=http%3a%2f%2fsupport.microsoft.com%2fservicedesks%2ffileversion%2fdllinfo.asp&fp=1 Dave Sharpe wrote: >Rocky > >Page >http://support.microsoft.com/default.aspx?kbid=239114 > >Entitled >How To: Obtain the Latest Service Pack for the Microsoft Jet 4.0 Database >Engine > >Contains a section >How to Determine the Current Service Pack Level of Jet 4.0 >Use the following steps to determine the Jet 4.0 service pack level that is >currently installed on your computer. > >Note Because there are several versions of Microsoft Windows, the following >steps may be different on your computer. If they are, see your product >documentation to complete these steps. > >On the Start menu, click Search. > >In the Search Results pane, click All files and folders under Search >Companion. > >In the All or part of the file name box, type msjet40.dll, and then click >Search. > >In the list of files, right-click the Msjet40.dll file that is located in >the Windows\System32 (or Windows\System) folder, and then click Properties. > >Click the Version tab, and then use the following table to determine the >current Jet 4.0 service pack level: > >Msjet40.dll Version Jet 4.0 Service Pack Level >4.0.2927.4 Service Pack 3 (SP3) >4.0.3714.7 Service Pack 4 (SP4) >4.0.4431.1 or 4.0.4431.3 Service Pack 5 (SP5) >4.0.6218.0 Service Pack 6 (SP6) >4.0.6807.0 Service Pack 6 (SP6) shipped only with Windows Server 2003 >4.0.7328.0 Service Pack 7 (SP7) >4.0.8015.0 Service Pack 8 (SP8) > >I hope that this helps. > >Dave > > >----- Original Message ----- >From: "Rocky Smolin - Beach Access Software" >To: >Sent: Saturday, March 20, 2004 10:07 AM >Subject: [AccessD] Version of Jet > > >Dear List: > >How do I determine which versions of Jet are loaded on my system? > >Thanks in advance, > >Rocky Smolin >Beach Access Software >http://www.e-z-mrp.com > > > -- Marty Connelly Victoria, B.C. Canada From davesharpe2 at cox.net Sat Mar 20 13:22:29 2004 From: davesharpe2 at cox.net (Dave Sharpe) Date: Sat, 20 Mar 2004 14:22:29 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Version of Jet References: <002601c40e8d$1b3dd070$6601a8c0@HAL9002><001d01c40e9f$b0d9f700$dd2f0a44@bcsext6137> <00fc01c40eaf$e0d9c3d0$6601a8c0@HAL9002> Message-ID: <001201c40eb0$afd0b4a0$dd2f0a44@bcsext6137> Rocky You're more than welcome, I 'm glad that I could be of service. Dave ----- Original Message ----- From: "Rocky Smolin - Beach Access Software" To: "Access Developers discussion and problem solving" Sent: Saturday, March 20, 2004 2:16 PM Subject: Re: [AccessD] Version of Jet Dave: Perfect. Thank you. Rocky ----- Original Message ----- From: "Dave Sharpe" To: "Access Developers discussion and problem solving" Sent: Saturday, March 20, 2004 9:20 AM Subject: Re: [AccessD] Version of Jet > Rocky > > Page > http://support.microsoft.com/default.aspx?kbid=239114 > > Entitled > How To: Obtain the Latest Service Pack for the Microsoft Jet 4.0 Database > Engine > > Contains a section > How to Determine the Current Service Pack Level of Jet 4.0 > Use the following steps to determine the Jet 4.0 service pack level that is > currently installed on your computer. > > Note Because there are several versions of Microsoft Windows, the following > steps may be different on your computer. If they are, see your product > documentation to complete these steps. > > On the Start menu, click Search. > > In the Search Results pane, click All files and folders under Search > Companion. > > In the All or part of the file name box, type msjet40.dll, and then click > Search. > > In the list of files, right-click the Msjet40.dll file that is located in > the Windows\System32 (or Windows\System) folder, and then click Properties. > > Click the Version tab, and then use the following table to determine the > current Jet 4.0 service pack level: > > Msjet40.dll Version Jet 4.0 Service Pack Level > 4.0.2927.4 Service Pack 3 (SP3) > 4.0.3714.7 Service Pack 4 (SP4) > 4.0.4431.1 or 4.0.4431.3 Service Pack 5 (SP5) > 4.0.6218.0 Service Pack 6 (SP6) > 4.0.6807.0 Service Pack 6 (SP6) shipped only with Windows Server 2003 > 4.0.7328.0 Service Pack 7 (SP7) > 4.0.8015.0 Service Pack 8 (SP8) > > I hope that this helps. > > Dave > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Rocky Smolin - Beach Access Software" > To: > Sent: Saturday, March 20, 2004 10:07 AM > Subject: [AccessD] Version of Jet > > > Dear List: > > How do I determine which versions of Jet are loaded on my system? > > Thanks in advance, > > Rocky Smolin > Beach Access Software > http://www.e-z-mrp.com > > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From tinanfields at torchlake.com Sat Mar 20 13:36:49 2004 From: tinanfields at torchlake.com (Tina Norris Fields) Date: Sat, 20 Mar 2004 14:36:49 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Short Date Input Mask question References: Message-ID: <405C9D51.9080609@torchlake.com> Whatever you do, John, don't give up. Don't ever give up. Not everyone will benefit from your excellent work - but that is okay. Many will. And often our job is to plant the seeds and tend the garden, even if we don't get to see the harvest. Don't EVER give up. Thanks for your efforts. Tina John W. Colby wrote: >Stuart, that is a silly thing to say, and exactly the reason that I can't >help but wonder whether anyone at all reads the posts I spend hours writing >and writing example code for. > >Of course "Access does that just fine by itself if you set the format >property to "d mmm yyyyy". > >And now, WE (you and I) have an application where our respective clients >say "I hate that format". I don't know what You do but I go into my sysvar >table and change a SysVar. The next time the app opens all date fields are >formatted however the client wants. > >What exactly DO you do? > >To a man with a search and replace program.... > >Shall I just abandon my attempts to educate this list about what frameworks >can do? Seems a shame, but it sure appears I've wasted about 30 hours so >far. > >John W. Colby >www.ColbyConsulting.com > >-----Original Message----- >From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com >[mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Stuart >McLachlan >Sent: Tuesday, March 16, 2004 5:10 PM >To: Access Developers discussion and problemsolving >Subject: RE: [AccessD] Short Date Input Mask question > > >On 16 Mar 2004 at 15:40, John W. Colby wrote: > > > >>A great case for a framework. Define the various formats you use in your >>text boxes and then tell the framework to figure out that it's a date and >>apply a format. >> >> >> > >To a man with a hammer....... >:-) > >Access does that just fine by itself if you set the format property >to "d mmm yyyyy" or whatever you want in the particular situation. > > >-- >Lexacorp Ltd >http://www.lexacorp.com.pg >Information Technology Consultancy, Software Development,System >Support. > > > >-- >_______________________________________________ >AccessD mailing list >AccessD at databaseadvisors.com >http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd >Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > > From accessd at shaw.ca Sat Mar 20 13:52:14 2004 From: accessd at shaw.ca (Jim Lawrence (AccessD)) Date: Sat, 20 Mar 2004 11:52:14 -0800 Subject: [AccessD] Version of Jet In-Reply-To: <002601c40e8d$1b3dd070$6601a8c0@HAL9002> Message-ID: Hi Rocky: For the current running version: strMDBVersion = CurrentDb.Version ...and for all the version on the current computer the information is stored in: HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE/Software/Microsoft/Jet/{versions} (i.e. /3.5, /4.0 etc.) I do not currently have my program that would pull that info. from the registry but will look if you require same. HTH Jim -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Rocky Smolin - Beach Access Software Sent: Saturday, March 20, 2004 7:08 AM To: AccessD at databaseadvisors.com Subject: [AccessD] Version of Jet Dear List: How do I determine which versions of Jet are loaded on my system? Thanks in advance, Rocky Smolin Beach Access Software http://www.e-z-mrp.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From dwaters at usinternet.com Sat Mar 20 17:22:23 2004 From: dwaters at usinternet.com (Dan Waters) Date: Sat, 20 Mar 2004 17:22:23 -0600 Subject: [AccessD] Synchronize with Palm or PocketPC In-Reply-To: <30521505.1079726875262.JavaMail.root@sniper.marix.com> Message-ID: <000001c40ed2$33a57920$de1811d8@DanWaters> Jason, Gary, and Paul, Thanks for your information! Now I can start walking. Dan -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Dan Waters Sent: Friday, March 19, 2004 2:04 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: [AccessD] Synchronize with Palm or PocketPC Hello everyone, I have a client where a possibly good solution would be to enter information into a PDA and then synchronize it with an Access app once per day. Can anyone point me in a direction to learn more about this? Anyone have any good/lousy experiences? Thanks! Dan Waters -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From carbonnb at sympatico.ca Sat Mar 20 19:58:02 2004 From: carbonnb at sympatico.ca (Bryan Carbonnell) Date: Sat, 20 Mar 2004 20:58:02 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Short Date Input Mask question In-Reply-To: <000101c40e39$b8af7dd0$6501a8c0@rock> References: Message-ID: <405CB05A.15650.291CA8F@localhost> On 19 Mar 2004 at 21:10, Arthur Fuller wrote: > Thanks Bryan! Yo Canada! > > Bryan Carbonnell >> bryan_carbonnell at cbc.ca Your tax dollars hard at work :-)) -- Bryan Carbonnell - carbonnb at sympatico.ca The trouble with doing something right the first time is that nobody appreciates how difficult it is. From carbonnb at sympatico.ca Sat Mar 20 20:02:19 2004 From: carbonnb at sympatico.ca (Bryan Carbonnell) Date: Sat, 20 Mar 2004 21:02:19 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Short Date Input Mask question In-Reply-To: <000001c40eab$6358d8a0$6501a8c0@rock> References: Message-ID: <405CB15B.25157.295B66D@localhost> On 20 Mar 2004 at 10:44, Arthur Fuller wrote: > Ditto popup calendars and similar "enhancements". Keyboard people hate > taking their hands off the keyboard. Especially in OLTP apps, operator > speed is paramount. For me it's got nothing to do with speed. It's giving me, and the end user, the choice because if health issues I have had. Dumb it down for those that want to point-and-click, but don't take away the option for me to type, when I have to to be able to feel my arm at the end of the day. H*ll luchtime some days would be nice. -- Bryan Carbonnell - carbonnb at sympatico.ca Don't take life too seriously. You won't get out alive. From jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com Sat Mar 20 21:06:22 2004 From: jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com (John W. Colby) Date: Sat, 20 Mar 2004 22:06:22 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Framework Discussion - Just a teaser Message-ID: The whole point of a framework is to allow the developer to add on things to the functionality of a class or set of classes that may be useful to him or his clients. When I added dbl-click open form functionality the client requested a visual clue for that functionality, i.e. something that would tell their users that a specific combo had this functionality. One way to do this is to change the backcolor, forecolor, font etc of either the combo or the label for the combo. In order to get at the label I needed to know which label belonged to the combo. Notice that no controls have a "label" property with a pointer to the label, but what every control has is a controls collection. It happens that the label is one of (or the only) control in that collection. Thus with the following code I could discover which label "belonged to" the combo or other control: '.Comments : '.Parameters: '.Sets : '.Returns : '.Created by: John W. Colby '.Created : 6/17/02 11:22:19 AM ' 'Finds the label that "belongs to" any given control. ' Function CtlLbl(ctlFindLbl As Control) As Label On Error GoTo Err_CtlLbl Dim ctl As Control For Each ctl In ctlFindLbl.Controls If ctl.ControlType = acLabel Then Set CtlLbl = ctl End If Next ctl Exit_CtlLbl: Exit Function Err_CtlLbl: Select Case Err Case 0 '.insert Errors you wish to ignore here Resume Next Case Else '.All other errors will trap Beep MsgBox Err.Description, , "Error in Function Utils.CtlLbl" Resume Exit_CtlLbl End Select Resume 0 '.FOR TROUBLESHOOTING End Function Having the ability to find the label, I added a label control into each control class' header: ' Private mlbl As Label 'The label associated with this control ' And in the class' Init() a call to this function: Function Init(ByRef robjParent As Object, lfrm As Form, lcbo As ComboBox) 'Pass in a pointer to a specific control Set mcbo = lcbo 'Save that pointer to a private variable here in the class Set mlbl = CtlLbl(mcbo) 'Find the combo's label if any end function Now that I have a pointer to the label I can manipulate it easily and quickly in any manner I wish. Thus in the combo class function that programs NotInListData, if the lblnUseDblClick parameter is passed in I set the backcolor and backstyle properties so that it changes color: Function NotInListData(Optional strTbl As String = "", _ Optional strFld As String = "", _ Optional strForm As String = "", _ Optional lblnUseDblClick As Variant, _ Optional lblnUseNotInList As Variant) If Not IsEmpty(lblnUseDblClick) Then mblnUseDblClick = lblnUseDblClick If mblnUseDblClick Then mlbl.BackColor = 16744448 mlbl.BackStyle = 1 End If End If end function Understand that this is DEMO code. Hardcoding "magic numbers" as the 16744448 back color would be known is strictly a no-no. First of all, if nothing else you would always specify a named constant so that it is crystal clear what the number represents (blue) and also allow modifications as needed. In my framework I use a SysVar (which we will be getting into next) to set the label back color for dblClick, and we will replace this code with SysVar driven code in the next iteration. Using a SysVar, if the SysVar is zero then don't perform a backcolor change, else set the backcolor to the color specified. The default for the framework is set to 0 (don't do a backcolor change) but in the FE the FESysVar table can override that default and turn on backcolor changes for the dblClick combos FOR THAT APPLICATION. This is precisely where a framework begins to shine. Can this be done without a Framework? Of course it can. You can do the same things in a simple library, or even just hardcoding this stuff in forms somewhere (YUK). But with a Framework the behavior is there throughout the application, can be turned on/off with a simple switch, and can even be overridden for specific instances, wither user preferences, client preferences, form by form etc. Handy stuff. To see this code in action download the demo from my site and open the frmPeopleV4. Notice that the HairColor, EyeColor and City combos have a blue label. If you double click on them a form opens to allow adding data to the list. Notice that the other combos do not have double-click enabled and their labels do not have a blue back color. I am not advocating this specific behavior, please don't harass me with how silly it is. I am simply demonstrating that with a framework this kind of functionality can be programmed one time and used forever. It will be available for any combo anywhere throughout the application, it simply has to be enabled by whatever mechanism causes the behavior to appear. In this case it has to have a parameter set true (lblnUseNotInList) AND (in the future) it has to have a SysVar set that "switches on" the behavior. John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com From jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com Sat Mar 20 21:35:34 2004 From: jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com (John W. Colby) Date: Sat, 20 Mar 2004 22:35:34 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Framework Discussion - Disconnected labels Message-ID: BTW it is possible to add controls to a control's control collection. Thus you can "TELL" a control in a continuous form that a label in the form's header belongs to it. I add a function to the class which assigns a label out on the form to that control: ' 'Connects a label to a combo - used for continuous forms where the label is in the header etc. ' Function ConnectLabel(llbl As Label) On Error GoTo Err_ConnectLabel Set mlbl = llbl Exit_ConnectLabel: Exit Function Err_ConnectLabel: MsgBox Err.Description, , "Error in Function dclsCtlTextBox.ConnectLabel" Resume Exit_ConnectLabel Resume 0 '.FOR TROUBLESHOOTING End Function Then, strictly for demo purposes I set and reset the label's backcolor in the text boxes OnEnter and OnExit: ' 'These are the event stubs for the control's OnEnter and OnExit events ' Private Sub mtxt_Enter() mlngBackColorOrig = mtxt.BackColor 'When we enter the text box, save the original back color mtxt.BackColor = mclngBackColor 'Set the back color to our favorite color mlbl.BackColor = 16744448 mlbl.BackStyle = 1 End Sub Private Sub mtxt_Exit(Cancel As Integer) mtxt.BackColor = mlngBackColorOrig 'When we exit the control, set the back color back to the original color mlbl.BackStyle = 0 End Sub In the form's Open event, after initializing the framework I call this method and pass in a lable: Public fdclsFrm As dclsFrm Private Sub Form_Open(Cancel As Integer) Set fdclsFrm = New dclsFrm fdclsFrm.Init Me, Me With fdclsFrm.colClasses .item("txtCode").ConnectLabel lblCode .item("txtName").ConnectLabel lblName End With End Sub To see this functionality open the lfrmState and tab through the two columns. Again, this isn't particularly useful in this instance but it might be a helpful indicator of cursor movement or state of a control and again demonstrates that a disconnected label can be added to a control's control class. John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com From jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com Sun Mar 21 04:54:41 2004 From: jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com (John W. Colby) Date: Sun, 21 Mar 2004 05:54:41 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Framework Discussion - Disconnected labels In-Reply-To: Message-ID: >BTW it is possible to add controls to a control's control collection. Never write at 10:30 pm. As far as I have found, it is NOT possible to add controls directly to the control's control collection, however we can emulate that capability with our class which is what I am doing in this email. JWC -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of John W. Colby Sent: Saturday, March 20, 2004 10:36 PM To: AccessD Subject: [AccessD] Framework Discussion - Disconnected labels BTW it is possible to add controls to a control's control collection. Thus you can "TELL" a control in a continuous form that a label in the form's header belongs to it. I add a function to the class which assigns a label out on the form to that control: ' 'Connects a label to a combo - used for continuous forms where the label is in the header etc. ' Function ConnectLabel(llbl As Label) On Error GoTo Err_ConnectLabel Set mlbl = llbl Exit_ConnectLabel: Exit Function Err_ConnectLabel: MsgBox Err.Description, , "Error in Function dclsCtlTextBox.ConnectLabel" Resume Exit_ConnectLabel Resume 0 '.FOR TROUBLESHOOTING End Function Then, strictly for demo purposes I set and reset the label's backcolor in the text boxes OnEnter and OnExit: ' 'These are the event stubs for the control's OnEnter and OnExit events ' Private Sub mtxt_Enter() mlngBackColorOrig = mtxt.BackColor 'When we enter the text box, save the original back color mtxt.BackColor = mclngBackColor 'Set the back color to our favorite color mlbl.BackColor = 16744448 mlbl.BackStyle = 1 End Sub Private Sub mtxt_Exit(Cancel As Integer) mtxt.BackColor = mlngBackColorOrig 'When we exit the control, set the back color back to the original color mlbl.BackStyle = 0 End Sub In the form's Open event, after initializing the framework I call this method and pass in a lable: Public fdclsFrm As dclsFrm Private Sub Form_Open(Cancel As Integer) Set fdclsFrm = New dclsFrm fdclsFrm.Init Me, Me With fdclsFrm.colClasses .item("txtCode").ConnectLabel lblCode .item("txtName").ConnectLabel lblName End With End Sub To see this functionality open the lfrmState and tab through the two columns. Again, this isn't particularly useful in this instance but it might be a helpful indicator of cursor movement or state of a control and again demonstrates that a disconnected label can be added to a control's control class. John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From Subscriptions at servicexp.com Sun Mar 21 09:22:00 2004 From: Subscriptions at servicexp.com (Robert Gracie) Date: Sun, 21 Mar 2004 10:22:00 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Framework Discussion - Disconnected labels In-Reply-To: Message-ID: John, Your demo has some problems.. The recordset for the "frmPeopleV4" form doesn't include displayed fields. And the class "dclsCtlTextBox" includes Reference to the label "mlbl" variable in the exit and enter events that are not being Initialized (set). I presumed that these references are in error. I Commented them out, fix the recordset and all seems to work like a charm..... Robert Gracie www.servicexp.com -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of John W. Colby Sent: Saturday, March 20, 2004 10:36 PM To: AccessD Subject: [AccessD] Framework Discussion - Disconnected labels BTW it is possible to add controls to a control's control collection. Thus you can "TELL" a control in a continuous form that a label in the form's header belongs to it. I add a function to the class which assigns a label out on the form to that control: ' 'Connects a label to a combo - used for continuous forms where the label is in the header etc. ' Function ConnectLabel(llbl As Label) On Error GoTo Err_ConnectLabel Set mlbl = llbl Exit_ConnectLabel: Exit Function Err_ConnectLabel: MsgBox Err.Description, , "Error in Function dclsCtlTextBox.ConnectLabel" Resume Exit_ConnectLabel Resume 0 '.FOR TROUBLESHOOTING End Function Then, strictly for demo purposes I set and reset the label's backcolor in the text boxes OnEnter and OnExit: ' 'These are the event stubs for the control's OnEnter and OnExit events ' Private Sub mtxt_Enter() mlngBackColorOrig = mtxt.BackColor 'When we enter the text box, save the original back color mtxt.BackColor = mclngBackColor 'Set the back color to our favorite color mlbl.BackColor = 16744448 mlbl.BackStyle = 1 End Sub Private Sub mtxt_Exit(Cancel As Integer) mtxt.BackColor = mlngBackColorOrig 'When we exit the control, set the back color back to the original color mlbl.BackStyle = 0 End Sub In the form's Open event, after initializing the framework I call this method and pass in a lable: Public fdclsFrm As dclsFrm Private Sub Form_Open(Cancel As Integer) Set fdclsFrm = New dclsFrm fdclsFrm.Init Me, Me With fdclsFrm.colClasses .item("txtCode").ConnectLabel lblCode .item("txtName").ConnectLabel lblName End With End Sub To see this functionality open the lfrmState and tab through the two columns. Again, this isn't particularly useful in this instance but it might be a helpful indicator of cursor movement or state of a control and again demonstrates that a disconnected label can be added to a control's control class. John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com Sun Mar 21 11:38:31 2004 From: jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com (John W. Colby) Date: Sun, 21 Mar 2004 12:38:31 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Framework Discussion - Disconnected labels In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Sorry, I did some stuff quick and dirty to demo the disconnected labels that affected the other form. >The recordset for the "frmPeopleV4" form doesn't include displayed fields. This one I don't understand. >And the class "dclsCtlTextBox" includes Reference to the label "mlbl" variable in the exit and enter events that are not being Initialized (set). This was to demo the disconnected label. I set an On Error Resume Next in front if that code to handle where there is on label. This stuff will come back out for V5, it was just a demo of what is possible. John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Robert Gracie Sent: Sunday, March 21, 2004 10:22 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] Framework Discussion - Disconnected labels John, Your demo has some problems.. The recordset for the "frmPeopleV4" form doesn't include displayed fields. And the class "dclsCtlTextBox" includes Reference to the label "mlbl" variable in the exit and enter events that are not being Initialized (set). I presumed that these references are in error. I Commented them out, fix the recordset and all seems to work like a charm..... Robert Gracie www.servicexp.com -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of John W. Colby Sent: Saturday, March 20, 2004 10:36 PM To: AccessD Subject: [AccessD] Framework Discussion - Disconnected labels BTW it is possible to add controls to a control's control collection. Thus you can "TELL" a control in a continuous form that a label in the form's header belongs to it. I add a function to the class which assigns a label out on the form to that control: ' 'Connects a label to a combo - used for continuous forms where the label is in the header etc. ' Function ConnectLabel(llbl As Label) On Error GoTo Err_ConnectLabel Set mlbl = llbl Exit_ConnectLabel: Exit Function Err_ConnectLabel: MsgBox Err.Description, , "Error in Function dclsCtlTextBox.ConnectLabel" Resume Exit_ConnectLabel Resume 0 '.FOR TROUBLESHOOTING End Function Then, strictly for demo purposes I set and reset the label's backcolor in the text boxes OnEnter and OnExit: ' 'These are the event stubs for the control's OnEnter and OnExit events ' Private Sub mtxt_Enter() mlngBackColorOrig = mtxt.BackColor 'When we enter the text box, save the original back color mtxt.BackColor = mclngBackColor 'Set the back color to our favorite color mlbl.BackColor = 16744448 mlbl.BackStyle = 1 End Sub Private Sub mtxt_Exit(Cancel As Integer) mtxt.BackColor = mlngBackColorOrig 'When we exit the control, set the back color back to the original color mlbl.BackStyle = 0 End Sub In the form's Open event, after initializing the framework I call this method and pass in a lable: Public fdclsFrm As dclsFrm Private Sub Form_Open(Cancel As Integer) Set fdclsFrm = New dclsFrm fdclsFrm.Init Me, Me With fdclsFrm.colClasses .item("txtCode").ConnectLabel lblCode .item("txtName").ConnectLabel lblName End With End Sub To see this functionality open the lfrmState and tab through the two columns. Again, this isn't particularly useful in this instance but it might be a helpful indicator of cursor movement or state of a control and again demonstrates that a disconnected label can be added to a control's control class. John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From Subscriptions at servicexp.com Sun Mar 21 12:01:58 2004 From: Subscriptions at servicexp.com (Robert Gracie) Date: Sun, 21 Mar 2004 13:01:58 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Framework Discussion - Disconnected labels In-Reply-To: Message-ID: >The recordset for the "frmPeopleV4" form doesn't include displayed fields. >This one I don't understand. The SQL behind the form did not include all of fields referenced on the form so and when you selected a company name, you would get ?NAME error in the fields. >And the class "dclsCtlTextBox" includes Reference to the label "mlbl" variable in the exit and enter events that are not being Initialized (set). >This was to demo the disconnected label. I set an On Error Resume Next in >front if that code to handle where there is on label. Not in the version I downloaded. any movement in any field would produce a Object not set error >This stuff will come back out for V5, it was just a demo of what is >possible. Real cool stuff!!! John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Robert Gracie Sent: Sunday, March 21, 2004 10:22 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] Framework Discussion - Disconnected labels John, Your demo has some problems.. The recordset for the "frmPeopleV4" form doesn't include displayed fields. And the class "dclsCtlTextBox" includes Reference to the label "mlbl" variable in the exit and enter events that are not being Initialized (set). I presumed that these references are in error. I Commented them out, fix the recordset and all seems to work like a charm..... Robert Gracie www.servicexp.com -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of John W. Colby Sent: Saturday, March 20, 2004 10:36 PM To: AccessD Subject: [AccessD] Framework Discussion - Disconnected labels BTW it is possible to add controls to a control's control collection. Thus you can "TELL" a control in a continuous form that a label in the form's header belongs to it. I add a function to the class which assigns a label out on the form to that control: ' 'Connects a label to a combo - used for continuous forms where the label is in the header etc. ' Function ConnectLabel(llbl As Label) On Error GoTo Err_ConnectLabel Set mlbl = llbl Exit_ConnectLabel: Exit Function Err_ConnectLabel: MsgBox Err.Description, , "Error in Function dclsCtlTextBox.ConnectLabel" Resume Exit_ConnectLabel Resume 0 '.FOR TROUBLESHOOTING End Function Then, strictly for demo purposes I set and reset the label's backcolor in the text boxes OnEnter and OnExit: ' 'These are the event stubs for the control's OnEnter and OnExit events ' Private Sub mtxt_Enter() mlngBackColorOrig = mtxt.BackColor 'When we enter the text box, save the original back color mtxt.BackColor = mclngBackColor 'Set the back color to our favorite color mlbl.BackColor = 16744448 mlbl.BackStyle = 1 End Sub Private Sub mtxt_Exit(Cancel As Integer) mtxt.BackColor = mlngBackColorOrig 'When we exit the control, set the back color back to the original color mlbl.BackStyle = 0 End Sub In the form's Open event, after initializing the framework I call this method and pass in a lable: Public fdclsFrm As dclsFrm Private Sub Form_Open(Cancel As Integer) Set fdclsFrm = New dclsFrm fdclsFrm.Init Me, Me With fdclsFrm.colClasses .item("txtCode").ConnectLabel lblCode .item("txtName").ConnectLabel lblName End With End Sub To see this functionality open the lfrmState and tab through the two columns. Again, this isn't particularly useful in this instance but it might be a helpful indicator of cursor movement or state of a control and again demonstrates that a disconnected label can be added to a control's control class. John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com Sun Mar 21 12:47:11 2004 From: jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com (John W. Colby) Date: Sun, 21 Mar 2004 13:47:11 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Framework Discussion - Disconnected labels In-Reply-To: Message-ID: > Not in the version I downloaded. any movement in any field would produce a Try it again, I just fixed the problem(s?) and uploaded it. John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Robert Gracie Sent: Sunday, March 21, 2004 1:02 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] Framework Discussion - Disconnected labels >The recordset for the "frmPeopleV4" form doesn't include displayed fields. >This one I don't understand. The SQL behind the form did not include all of fields referenced on the form so and when you selected a company name, you would get ?NAME error in the fields. >And the class "dclsCtlTextBox" includes Reference to the label "mlbl" variable in the exit and enter events that are not being Initialized (set). >This was to demo the disconnected label. I set an On Error Resume Next in >front if that code to handle where there is on label. Not in the version I downloaded. any movement in any field would produce a Object not set error >This stuff will come back out for V5, it was just a demo of what is >possible. Real cool stuff!!! John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Robert Gracie Sent: Sunday, March 21, 2004 10:22 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] Framework Discussion - Disconnected labels John, Your demo has some problems.. The recordset for the "frmPeopleV4" form doesn't include displayed fields. And the class "dclsCtlTextBox" includes Reference to the label "mlbl" variable in the exit and enter events that are not being Initialized (set). I presumed that these references are in error. I Commented them out, fix the recordset and all seems to work like a charm..... Robert Gracie www.servicexp.com -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of John W. Colby Sent: Saturday, March 20, 2004 10:36 PM To: AccessD Subject: [AccessD] Framework Discussion - Disconnected labels BTW it is possible to add controls to a control's control collection. Thus you can "TELL" a control in a continuous form that a label in the form's header belongs to it. I add a function to the class which assigns a label out on the form to that control: ' 'Connects a label to a combo - used for continuous forms where the label is in the header etc. ' Function ConnectLabel(llbl As Label) On Error GoTo Err_ConnectLabel Set mlbl = llbl Exit_ConnectLabel: Exit Function Err_ConnectLabel: MsgBox Err.Description, , "Error in Function dclsCtlTextBox.ConnectLabel" Resume Exit_ConnectLabel Resume 0 '.FOR TROUBLESHOOTING End Function Then, strictly for demo purposes I set and reset the label's backcolor in the text boxes OnEnter and OnExit: ' 'These are the event stubs for the control's OnEnter and OnExit events ' Private Sub mtxt_Enter() mlngBackColorOrig = mtxt.BackColor 'When we enter the text box, save the original back color mtxt.BackColor = mclngBackColor 'Set the back color to our favorite color mlbl.BackColor = 16744448 mlbl.BackStyle = 1 End Sub Private Sub mtxt_Exit(Cancel As Integer) mtxt.BackColor = mlngBackColorOrig 'When we exit the control, set the back color back to the original color mlbl.BackStyle = 0 End Sub In the form's Open event, after initializing the framework I call this method and pass in a lable: Public fdclsFrm As dclsFrm Private Sub Form_Open(Cancel As Integer) Set fdclsFrm = New dclsFrm fdclsFrm.Init Me, Me With fdclsFrm.colClasses .item("txtCode").ConnectLabel lblCode .item("txtName").ConnectLabel lblName End With End Sub To see this functionality open the lfrmState and tab through the two columns. Again, this isn't particularly useful in this instance but it might be a helpful indicator of cursor movement or state of a control and again demonstrates that a disconnected label can be added to a control's control class. John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com Sun Mar 21 13:27:06 2004 From: jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com (John W. Colby) Date: Sun, 21 Mar 2004 14:27:06 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Storing custom datatypes in collections Message-ID: Has anyone ever succeeded in storing a custom data type in a collection? I get an error message: "Compile error Only user defined types defined in public object modules can be coerced to or from a variant or passed to late bound functions." This is the code I'm using: Public Type TblDat strCnn As adodb.Connection strTblName As String End Type Public colTest As Collection Public Function SVTblDat(lstrCnn As adodb.Connection, lstrTblName As String) As TblDat Dim lTblDat As TblDat Set lTblDat.strCnn = lstrCnn lTblDat.strTblName = lstrTblName SVTblDat = lTblDat End Function Public Function TestCollection() Set colTest = New Collection colTest.Add SVTblDat(CurrentProject.Connection, "1234") End Function Calling TestCollection and the error highlights SVTblDat( Anyone? John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com From deanellis at iprimus.com.au Sun Mar 21 14:31:18 2004 From: deanellis at iprimus.com.au (Dean Ellis) Date: Mon, 22 Mar 2004 07:01:18 +1030 (Cen. Australia Daylight Time) Subject: [AccessD] Detecting CD Drive Constantly Message-ID: <405DFB96.000003.59601@jedel> Hi All, I'm having some trouble with a database that is required to detect the CD Drive of the Computer it is running from. The code that is in there works for Desktop computers, but not Laptops., and even then, this is not garuntee Here is the code on the module: Public Function SaveAndGetCDROMDriveLetter() As String Dim DriveChar As Byte Dim tmpDrive As String Dim CDDRiveLetter As String SaveAndGetCDROMDriveLetter = "Unknown" On Error GoTo ErrorHandler For DriveChar = 0 To 25 tmpDrive = Chr(65 + DriveChar) & ":\" If (GetDriveType(tmpDrive) = DRIVE_CDROM) Then SaveAndGetCDROMDriveLetter = tmpDrive Exit For End If Next DriveChar CDDRiveLetter = GetSetting("IAQ_JLW2", "Preferences", "CDDRiveLetter", "") If IsNull(CDDRiveLetter) Or CDDRiveLetter = "" Then 'No Cd Drive ltter set so set one SaveSetting "IAQ_JLW2", "Preferences", "CDDriveLetter", SaveAndGetCDROMDriveLetter() 'Me!ctlCDRomDriveLetter = GetSetting("IAQ_JLW2", "Preferences", CDDRiveLetter", "") 'Me!ctlCDRomDriveLetter.Requery Else 'There is a Cd Drive Ltter and it is... 'Me!ctlCDRomDriveLetter = GetSetting("IAQ_JLW2", "Preferences", CDDRiveLetter", "") End If ErrorHandler: Exit Function End Function -------------------------------------------------------------------- The code in one of the forms, bearing in mind that this is used in any form that requires a fie path to a file: Private Sub PadPath() Dim CDDrive, MoviePath, StillPath As String Dim x, y As String 'On Error Resume Next 'CDDrive = DLookup("[CDRomName]", "tblDefaults") & "\" CDDrive = GetSetting("IAQ_JLW2", "Preferences", "CDDRiveLetter", "") MoviePath = DLookup("[DefaultMoviePath]", "tblDefaults") 'StillPath = DLookup("[DefaultStillPath]", "tblDefaults") x = CDDrive & MoviePath 'y = CDDrive & StillPath Me!ctlPath = x & ctlPath End Sub ----------------------------------------------------------------------- I hope this gives you some idea as to what I am trying to do. I have also trying manually setting the drive letter. The problem with this is the CD can only be as Read only so the Records wont change. I am trying to 'dim' the drive selection manually, but it won't read the public string declaration. Any help would be great Cheers Dean From stuart at lexacorp.com.pg Sun Mar 21 15:52:30 2004 From: stuart at lexacorp.com.pg (Stuart McLachlan) Date: Mon, 22 Mar 2004 07:52:30 +1000 Subject: [AccessD] Detecting CD Drive Constantly In-Reply-To: <405DFB96.000003.59601@jedel> Message-ID: <405E9B3E.32222.17E762@localhost> On 22 Mar 2004 at 7:01, Dean Ellis wrote: > Hi All, > > I'm having some trouble with a database that is required to detect the CD > Drive of the Computer it is running from. The code that is in there works > for Desktop computers, but not Laptops., and even then, this is not garuntee > > > Here is the code on the module: > > Public Function SaveAndGetCDROMDriveLetter() As String > > Dim DriveChar As Byte > Dim tmpDrive As String > Dim CDDRiveLetter As String > > SaveAndGetCDROMDriveLetter = "Unknown" > > On Error GoTo ErrorHandler > > For DriveChar = 0 To 25 > tmpDrive = Chr(65 + DriveChar) & ":\" > If (GetDriveType(tmpDrive) = DRIVE_CDROM) Then > SaveAndGetCDROMDriveLetter = tmpDrive > Exit For One problem with that is many macines today have DVD Drives. A DVD/CD returns DRIVE_FIXED from GetDriveType() Take a look at http://www.vb2themax.com/NLItem.asp?PageID=NewsletterBank&ID=1040 for code to determine all drive info. -- Lexacorp Ltd http://www.lexacorp.com.pg Information Technology Consultancy, Software Development,System Support. From bchacc at san.rr.com Sun Mar 21 16:07:25 2004 From: bchacc at san.rr.com (Rocky Smolin - Beach Access Software) Date: Sun, 21 Mar 2004 14:07:25 -0800 Subject: [AccessD] Results of Elections For the Board of Direcotrs - Database Advisors, Inc. Message-ID: <02d801c40f90$e4c835d0$6601a8c0@HAL9002> Dear List: It gives me great pleasure to announce the results of the recent election for the Board of Directors of Database Advisors, Inc., a Board which consists of nine members. Aside from being a required corporate formality, our Board of Directors is responsible for among other things, providing strategic direction for our organization, addressing and solving problems related to maintaining the various mail lists which are supported by Database Advisors, Inc., providing support and coordination for various projects, maintaining the web site, and monitoring and refereeing the content of the lists. The Director position is unpaid and voluntary. And so all of us who benefit from having this resource available to us owe these people our thanks and gratitude. As is customary in a corporation, only shareholders of Database Advisors are allowed to vote. They receive one vote for each share of stock they own. There are 30 shareholders whose ownership ranges from 1 share to 12 shares. Votes were received from 14 of the shareholders. The following persons will be serving as Directors of Database Advisors, Inc. for the coming year: John Bartow John Colby Donna Cook Susan Harkins Jim Lawrence Martin Reid Lembit Soobik Keith Williamson Drew Wutka Congratulations and thank you to all of you. On a personal note I would like to observe for those that might be new to the list or unaware of its history, that Database Advisors Inc. is what might be called a 'virtual corporation'. It was formed when the previous host Memphis Technologies, could no longer host the list. The list went down rather suddenly leaving many people around the world who depended heavily on this resource without the valuable assistance of its members. Several of the list members most of whom had never met and have still never met in person, and live in widely scattered parts of the world, organized and formed this corporation conducting management, directors and shareholders meetings exclusively in cyberspace. Those of you who participate in this list, therefore, are participating in a unique organization - one which would have been impossible as little as ten or fifteen years ago. Please note that, although expenses are not great, a certain amount of cash is required for things like paying the ISP who hosts the list. All other services, such as web site maintenance and the searchable archive are provided by list members as a service to the list. Know that Database Advisors gratefully accepts cash contributions from its list members to help defray these costs. Sincerely, Rocky Smolin Chair, Elections Committee Beach Access Software http://www.e-z-mrp.com From stuart at lexacorp.com.pg Sun Mar 21 16:21:31 2004 From: stuart at lexacorp.com.pg (Stuart McLachlan) Date: Mon, 22 Mar 2004 08:21:31 +1000 Subject: [AccessD] Storing custom datatypes in collections In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <405EA20B.4163.32783A@localhost> On 21 Mar 2004 at 14:27, John W. Colby wrote: > Has anyone ever succeeded in storing a custom data type in a collection? I > get an error message: > > "Compile error > > Only user defined types defined in public object modules can be coerced to > or from a variant or passed to late bound functions." > > This is the code I'm using: > > Public Type TblDat > strCnn As adodb.Connection > strTblName As String > End Type > > Public colTest As Collection > > Public Function SVTblDat(lstrCnn As adodb.Connection, lstrTblName As String) > As TblDat > Dim lTblDat As TblDat > Set lTblDat.strCnn = lstrCnn > lTblDat.strTblName = lstrTblName > SVTblDat = lTblDat > End Function > > Public Function TestCollection() > Set colTest = New Collection > colTest.Add SVTblDat(CurrentProject.Connection, "1234") > End Function > > Calling TestCollection and the error highlights SVTblDat( > > Anyone? > Same thing happens in VB. It's a known deficiency iin VB/VBA. Conventional wisdom is to use a class instead of a UDT. Try googling on "public object module" :-( -- Lexacorp Ltd http://www.lexacorp.com.pg Information Technology Consultancy, Software Development,System Support. From martyconnelly at shaw.ca Sun Mar 21 16:31:55 2004 From: martyconnelly at shaw.ca (MartyConnelly) Date: Sun, 21 Mar 2004 14:31:55 -0800 Subject: [AccessD] Detecting CD Drive Constantly References: <405DFB96.000003.59601@jedel> Message-ID: <405E17DB.4040701@shaw.ca> Try this method Enumerating Local and Network Drives It works for me on a laptop uses GetLogicalDriveStrings rather than looping through GetDriveType http://www.mvps.org/access/api/api0003.htm Dean Ellis wrote: >Hi All, > > > >I'm having some trouble with a database that is required to detect the CD >Drive of the Computer it is running from. The code that is in there works >for Desktop computers, but not Laptops., and even then, this is not garuntee > > > > >Here is the code on the module: > > > >Public Function SaveAndGetCDROMDriveLetter() As String > > > > Dim DriveChar As Byte > > Dim tmpDrive As String > > Dim CDDRiveLetter As String > > > >SaveAndGetCDROMDriveLetter = "Unknown" > > > > On Error GoTo ErrorHandler > > > > For DriveChar = 0 To 25 > > tmpDrive = Chr(65 + DriveChar) & ":\" > > If (GetDriveType(tmpDrive) = DRIVE_CDROM) Then > > SaveAndGetCDROMDriveLetter = tmpDrive > > Exit For > > End If > > Next DriveChar > > > > > > CDDRiveLetter = GetSetting("IAQ_JLW2", "Preferences", "CDDRiveLetter", "") > > > > > > If IsNull(CDDRiveLetter) Or CDDRiveLetter = "" Then > > 'No Cd Drive ltter set so set one > > SaveSetting "IAQ_JLW2", "Preferences", "CDDriveLetter", >SaveAndGetCDROMDriveLetter() > > 'Me!ctlCDRomDriveLetter = GetSetting("IAQ_JLW2", "Preferences", >CDDRiveLetter", "") > > 'Me!ctlCDRomDriveLetter.Requery > > Else > > 'There is a Cd Drive Ltter and it is... > > 'Me!ctlCDRomDriveLetter = GetSetting("IAQ_JLW2", "Preferences", >CDDRiveLetter", "") > > End If > > > > > >ErrorHandler: > > Exit Function > > > >End Function > > > >-------------------------------------------------------------------- > > > >The code in one of the forms, bearing in mind that this is used in any form >that requires a fie path to a file: > > > >Private Sub PadPath() > >Dim CDDrive, MoviePath, StillPath As String > >Dim x, y As String > >'On Error Resume Next > > > >'CDDrive = DLookup("[CDRomName]", "tblDefaults") & "\" > >CDDrive = GetSetting("IAQ_JLW2", "Preferences", "CDDRiveLetter", "") > >MoviePath = DLookup("[DefaultMoviePath]", "tblDefaults") > >'StillPath = DLookup("[DefaultStillPath]", "tblDefaults") > > > >x = CDDrive & MoviePath > >'y = CDDrive & StillPath > > > >Me!ctlPath = x & ctlPath > >End Sub > > > >----------------------------------------------------------------------- > > > >I hope this gives you some idea as to what I am trying to do. I have also >trying manually setting the drive letter. The problem with this is the CD >can only be as Read only so the Records wont change. I am trying to 'dim' >the drive selection manually, but it won't read the public string >declaration. > > > > > >Any help would be great > > > >Cheers > > > >Dean > > -- Marty Connelly Victoria, B.C. Canada From jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com Sun Mar 21 16:42:01 2004 From: jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com (John W. Colby) Date: Sun, 21 Mar 2004 17:42:01 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Storing custom datatypes in collections In-Reply-To: <405EA20B.4163.32783A@localhost> Message-ID: Yea, I'm in the process of building a class right now. :( John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Stuart McLachlan Sent: Sunday, March 21, 2004 5:22 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problemsolving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Storing custom datatypes in collections On 21 Mar 2004 at 14:27, John W. Colby wrote: > Has anyone ever succeeded in storing a custom data type in a collection? I > get an error message: > > "Compile error > > Only user defined types defined in public object modules can be coerced to > or from a variant or passed to late bound functions." > > This is the code I'm using: > > Public Type TblDat > strCnn As adodb.Connection > strTblName As String > End Type > > Public colTest As Collection > > Public Function SVTblDat(lstrCnn As adodb.Connection, lstrTblName As String) > As TblDat > Dim lTblDat As TblDat > Set lTblDat.strCnn = lstrCnn > lTblDat.strTblName = lstrTblName > SVTblDat = lTblDat > End Function > > Public Function TestCollection() > Set colTest = New Collection > colTest.Add SVTblDat(CurrentProject.Connection, "1234") > End Function > > Calling TestCollection and the error highlights SVTblDat( > > Anyone? > Same thing happens in VB. It's a known deficiency iin VB/VBA. Conventional wisdom is to use a class instead of a UDT. Try googling on "public object module" :-( -- Lexacorp Ltd http://www.lexacorp.com.pg Information Technology Consultancy, Software Development,System Support. -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com Sun Mar 21 22:36:59 2004 From: jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com (John W. Colby) Date: Sun, 21 Mar 2004 23:36:59 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Framework Discussion - SysVars Message-ID: The following is a discussion of Sysvars. The demo file can be downloaded from my site. I have begun deleting older MDBs out of the zip file to slim it back down since the original ZIPs are out there for the demos for the earlier documents. There is a form in the V5 mdb for demoing the SysVar system in that MDB. Framework Discussion ? System Variables One of the structures that many developers need is one that I call System Variables or SysVars for short. These are things like the client?s company name, address, phone, fax, tax ID and so forth. Many developers handle this kind of data by creating a one record table, and adding a new field to the table every time they find a new System Variable that they need to use. I also require a system like this but decided that the process of adding fields to a record was just too clumsy and time consuming for my purposes, so I decided to use a table where each record contains a System Variable. I prefix all of my SysVar tables (and there may be several) with usys so that they can be treated as Access system objects and the table won?t be visible if that flag is cleared (Tools / Options / View / System Objects check box). Thus my tables would be named usystblSysVar, usystblFWSysVar, usystblAppSysVar etc. For my purposes I decided to use an autonumber PK, a string SysVar Name, a string SysVar value and a memo SysVar memo field for explanations of purpose, thus: SV_ID Autonumber SV_VarName Text - 50 SV_VarValue Text ? 50 SV_Memo Memo Once you start using System Variables it becomes apparent that they are useful at several different levels in an application. The first level and immediately important to this discussion, is to control the Framework default behaviors. In other words, we can set up SysVars that the framework itself reads as it initializes to decide whether to load service classes at init(), whether to turn on or off combo dbl-click or NotInList processing by default, whether to use Just In Time (JIT) subforms by default etc. The next level is that SysVars are valuable for the same purpose in the Application itself for setting up the application program behaviors in a manner similar to that for the framework. Will the entire client company name / address / etc be displayed on the main menu or just the company name, or nothing? Will a splash screen display the developer?s information or just a pretty picture, or the client?s logo. These kinds of operational decisions can be programmed by creating SysVars that are then referenced by the Application?s code to decide what to do in cases where several possible behaviors could be used. Another level is the actual Application data such as the examples in the first paragraphs of the client?s company name, address, Tax ID and so forth. Each of these uses target a different ?level? of the application but each are or may be equally valuable, thus the developer may need a SysVar table for the Framework control, the Application control and the Application data, an possibly even other such tables.. Having determined the table structure I wanted, I designed a set of classes to read the data out of the table(s) and hold the data itself in a collection keyed on the SysVar name. This allows the developer to call a method of a clsSysVars instance (the framework instance perhaps), pass in the name of the SysVar and get back the value of the SysVar. Classes and collections are extremely high speed, especially compared to trying to get that data out of the table each time, so we can realistically expect to use this to control our applications in real time. One thing to understand is that because the data is loaded out of the table into a collection in a class, changes to the SysVars will not be available to the SysVar users until the table(s) is reread. SysVars are not appropriate for ?flags? where changes need to be used immediately in controlling some operation, particularly if that usage will be in another workstation. The other thing to mention is that at least for the Framework, we need to be able to ?override? SysVars loaded earlier with values loaded later. For example we have a usystblFWSysVars in the framework library, and we also have a usystblFWSysVars in the FE. The ?default? behaviors of the framework are determined by the usystblFWSysVars in the framework. Whether or not the table even exists in the FE, we can set up the framework to act a certain way. Then, in the FE, we can decide that we would rather the default behavior be different. As an example, the framework by default does not use JIT subforms. The usystblFWSysVar has a Sysvar gUseJIT set to False. Thus if there is no override in the FE, as forms with tabs with subforms load, all of the subforms load automatically. However, the developer decides that for ApplicationX it would be useful to have JIT subforms turned on. By placing an identically named sysvar in the usystblFWSysVar in the FE, but with the JIT SysVar gUseJIT set True, the subforms now do not load until the tab that the subform is on is clicked. JIT is turned on in this FE ?by default?. In order to accomplish this, I need to have a method of initializing the clsSysVar with a specific SysVar table loaded (when the framework initializes), but then ?merge in? another table later (when the FE initializes). Further it is occasionally useful, particularly during development, to modify SysVars and have the table ?tree? reread so we also need to save the names of and the load order of all of the SysVar tables loaded by a class. Then if we need to, at any time we can reread all of the tables in the correct order to get the final SysVar values loaded into the class. Implementation In order to break this process down into functional units I designed three classes to implement SysVars. The first class is clsSysVars which is the service class itself. clsSysVars is instantiated once for each ?set? of SysVars, i.e. once for the framework SysVars, once for the Application control SysVars and once for the Application data SysVars (as needed). clsSysVars then immediately instantiates a single clsSysVarsTbl which is the class that knows how to read out the data from the SysVar table, and holds the connection and table name. If the SysVars are to be overridden as will probably happen using a usystblFWSysVars in the FE to override certain framework SysVars, then a second instance of clsSysVarsTbl will be instantiated with the connection and table name from the project. That second instance will be loaded as the application itself initializes. clsSysVarsTbl reads all of the SysVar records out of the SysVar table it is responsible for and builds a clsSysVar (singular) instance for each record in that SysVar table. To reiterate, clsSysVars (plural) loads an instance of clsSysVarsTbl for each SysVar table to be merged into its SysVars collection. clsSysVarsTbl stores the connection and table name used to read the data from the table and has the methods to read that table, instantiating clsSysVar (singular) for each record in the table. clsSysVars passes its colSysVars to clsSysVarsTbl so that that class can build instances of clsSysVar and store them in that collection. A method of clsSysVars is then called to read out any given SysVar. By the way, I timed the reading of SysVars using a shell function that calls a method of clsSysVars to read a single SysVar 100,000 times. Reading a SysVar 100,000 times took ~600 milliseconds, thus averaging .006 milliseconds to read a single SysVar. While this is not something that should be performed in a query reading a million records, it should be acceptable to use in program control. clsSysVar Starting at the bottom of the class chain, we will look at clsSysVar. clsSysVar holds all of the fields (data) of a single SysVar record from the table. In the header we have a private variable for each field in the SysVar table. Option Compare Database Option Explicit Private mstrName As String Private mvarValue As Variant Private mstrMemo As Variant Private mblnUserEditable As Boolean Private mblnAllowOverride As Boolean Since we have no objects to initialize or terminate we don?t use the built-in class events. The public function Init() passes in all of the data from one record of the table. All we do is store the data in the variables in the class header. Public Function Init(lstrVarName As Variant, lstrVarValue As Variant, _ Optional lstrMemo As Variant = "", _ Optional lblnUserEditable As Boolean = False, _ Optional lblnAllowOverride As Boolean = True) On Error GoTo Err_Init mstrName = lstrVarName mvarValue = lstrVarValue mstrMemo = lstrMemo mblnUserEditable = lblnUserEditable mblnAllowOverride = lblnAllowOverride Exit_Init: Exit Function Err_Init: MsgBox Err.Description, , "Error in Function clsSysVar.Init" Resume Exit_Init Resume 0 '.FOR TROUBLESHOOTING End Function We then have properties to allow us to read / write these variables in the header. It is unclear that we will ever need to write the values through the property let statements and it might be wise to delete all the property let statements to cause the values in the header to be read only. ' 'The name of the SysVar ' Property Let Name(strVarName As String) mstrName = strVarName End Property Property Get Name() As String Name = mstrName End Property ' 'The value of the SysVar ' Property Get Value() As Variant Value = mvarValue End Property Property Let Value(strValue As Variant) mvarValue = strValue End Property ' 'The memo of the SysVar ' Property Get Memo() As String Memo = mstrMemo End Property Property Let Memo(strMemo As String) mstrMemo = strMemo End Property ' 'Is this SysVar user editable? ' Property Let UserEditable(blnUserEditable As Boolean) mblnUserEditable = blnUserEditable End Property Property Get UserEditable() As Boolean UserEditable = mblnUserEditable End Property ' 'Allow Override of this SysVar? ' Property Get AllowOverride() As Boolean AllowOverride = mblnAllowOverride End Property Property Let AllowOverride(blnAllowOverride As Boolean) mblnAllowOverride = blnAllowOverride End Property That?s all there is to clsSysVar. Its function is to store the SysVar data in variables. clsSysVarsTbl This class is responsible for reading the data out of the usys tables holding the SysVar data. It has to save the connection and the table name since it might be called on to refresh the SysVars in its table. Option Compare Database Option Explicit Private mcnn As adodb.Connection 'The connection for the table Private mrst As adodb.Recordset 'The recordset object used Private mstrTblName As String 'The table name Private mcolSysVars As Collection 'The SysVars collection from the parent This class stores objects that need to be cleaned up so we use the Terminate event to trigger Term() as a failsafe cleanup method. Private Sub Class_Terminate() Term End Sub The Init() method passes in a connection, a table name and the SysVar collection. We store pointers to each of these objects in the header. We then call the MergSysVars method to read the data out of the tables and build the SysVar class instances. Public Function Init(lcnn As adodb.Connection, lstrTblName As String, lcolSysVars As Collection) On Error GoTo Err_Init Set mcnn = lcnn mstrTblName = lstrTblName Set mcolSysVars = lcolSysVars MergeSysVars Exit_Init: Exit Function Err_Init: MsgBox Err.Description, , "Error in Function clsSysVarsTbl.Init" Resume Exit_Init Resume 0 '.FOR TROUBLESHOOTING End Function We do have cleanup to perform so do it here. Public Function Term() On Error Resume Next Set mcnn = Nothing mrst.Close Set mrst = Nothing Set mcolSysVars = Nothing End Function The MergeSysVars method is where all the work is done. The record set is opened using the connection and table name passed in to init and stored in the class header. We then move through the record set building new clsSysVar class instances. Note that we first delete any class by the same SysVar name first, which is our definition of ?merge?. ' 'Merges all of the SysVars in a table into mcolSysVars ' 'A "merge" really means deleting the old value and replacing it with the new value. 'For this reason all we do is delete any existing SysVar class in the collection 'keyed on any names in this table and build a new one from scratch ' Public Function MergeSysVars() On Error GoTo Err_MergeSysVars Set mrst = New adodb.Recordset 'open the database and the recordset mrst.Open mstrTblName, mcnn 'create the collection to hold the sysvars With mrst While Not .EOF On Error Resume Next mcolSysVars.Remove !SV_VarName On Error GoTo Err_MergeSysVars NewSysVar .MoveNext Wend End With Exit_MergeSysVars: On Error Resume Next mrst.Close Set mrst = Nothing Exit Function Err_MergeSysVars: MsgBox Err.Description, , "Error in Function clsSysVarsTbl.MergeSysVars" Resume Exit_MergeSysVars Resume 0 '.FOR TROUBLESHOOTING End Function The NewSysVar method is private to the class and is a class factory that builds an instance of clsSysVar, storing the data from the current record in the class variables. It then stores that class instance in mcolSysVars, the collection of SysVar class instances that is originally created in the main class clsSysVars. ' 'Builds a new SysVar instance from a SysVar record ' Private Function NewSysVar() On Error GoTo Err_NewSysVar Dim lclsSysVar As clsSysVar Set lclsSysVar = New clsSysVar With mrst lclsSysVar.Init !SV_VarName, !SV_VarValue, !SV_Memo, !SV_UserEditable, !SV_AllowOverride mcolSysVars.Add lclsSysVar, !SV_VarName End With Exit_NewSysVar: On Error Resume Next Exit Function Err_NewSysVar: MsgBox Err.Description, , "Error in Function clsSysVarsTbl.NewSysVar" Resume Exit_NewSysVar Resume 0 '.FOR TROUBLESHOOTING End Function That?s all there is to clsSysVarsTbl. Its function is to read the data out of the table and into clsSysVar instances where the data is stored. clsSysVars This is the SysVar supervisor class, and is the Service Class actually used by the framework or application. clsSysVar has two collections in its header, one for the clsSysVar class instances (the data) and another for the clsSysVarsTbl class instances (the tables of data). Option Compare Database Option Explicit Private mcolSysVarsTbl As Collection Private mcolSysVars As Collection We have objects to be initialized (collections) so we use the class Initialize event to to the initialization of these classes. Private Sub Class_Initialize() On Error GoTo Err_Class_Initialize assDebugPrint "initialize " & mcstrModuleName, DebugPrint Set mcolChildren = New Collection Set mcolSysVarsTbl = New Collection Set mcolSysVars = New Collection Exit_Class_Initialize: Exit Sub Err_Class_Initialize: MsgBox Err.Description, , "Error in Sub clsTemplate.Class_Initialize" Resume Exit_Class_Initialize Resume 0 '.FOR TROUBLESHOOTING End Sub The Init() method is passed in a connection and table name. This data is not actually stored here but rather simply passed on to an instance of clsSysVarsTbl by calling the MergeSysVars method. Public Sub Init(ByRef robjParent As Object, lstrCnn As adodb.Connection, lstrTblName As String) On Error GoTo Err_Init Set mobjParent = robjParent 'colTblDat.Add SVTblDat(lstrCnn, lstrTblName) 'IF THE PARENT OBJECT HAS A CHILDREN COLLECTION, PUT MYSELF IN IT assDebugPrint "init " & mstrInstanceName, DebugPrint MergeSysVars lstrCnn, lstrTblName Exit_Init: Exit Sub Err_Init: MsgBox Err.Description, , "Error in Sub clsSysVars.Init" Resume Exit_Init Resume 0 '.FOR TROUBLESHOOTING End Sub Since we have objects to clean up we use the class? Terminate event as a failsafe cleanup, which simply calls our Term(). Private Sub Class_Terminate() On Error Resume Next assDebugPrint "Terminate " & mcstrModuleName, DebugPrint Term End Sub Term() does our cleanup for us. We build a private colEmpty () method which we use to empty out the two collections before we set the pointers to these collections to nothing. Public Sub Term() Static blnRan As Boolean 'The term may run more than once so If blnRan Then Exit Sub 'just exit if it already ran blnRan = True On Error Resume Next assDebugPrint "Term() " & mcstrModuleName, DebugPrint colEmpty mcolSysVarsTbl Set mcolSysVarsTbl = Nothing colEmpty mcolSysVars Set mcolSysVars = Nothing Set mobjParent = Nothing Set mcolChildren = Nothing End Sub We provide a couple of property get procedures to pass back pointers to the class collections in case we ever need them. Property Get colSysVars() As Collection Set colSysVars = mcolSysVars End Property Property Get colSysVarsTbl() As Collection Set colSysVarsTbl = mcolSysVarsTbl End Property We already mentioned colEmpty, which does nothing more than iterate the collection holding class instances, calling the Term() method of each object, then removing the pointer to the class from the collection. Since the collections (mcolSysVarsTbl and mcolSysVars) hold the only pointers to their respective class instances, when we remove the pointer form the collection, the class instance is removed from memory. ' 'Empties out a collection containing class instances ' Private Function colEmpty(col As Collection) On Error GoTo Err_colEmpty While col.Count > 0 On Error Resume Next col(1).Term On Error GoTo Err_colEmpty col.Remove 1 Wend Exit_colEmpty: Exit Function Err_colEmpty: MsgBox Err.Description, , "Error in Function clsSysVars.colEmpty" Resume Exit_colEmpty Resume 0 '.FOR TROUBLESHOOTING End Function The MergeSysVars method is a public method and class factory that allows us to create an instance of clsSysVarsTbl, initialize that instance with the passed in connection and table name, and finally save that instance in the mcolSysVarsTbl collection. ' 'THIS FUNCTION ALLOWS US TO MERGE ANOTHER SYSVAR TABLE INTO THE 'EXISTING (FRAMEWORK?) SYSVAR COLLECTION AT RUN TIME, IN EFFECT OVERRIDING 'ANY BUILT IN VARIABLE VALUES WITH ONES FROM THE APPLICATION. THIS ALLOWS 'THE APPLICATION TO SET UP THE FRAMEWORK TO OPERATE DIFFERENTLY THAN IT MIGHT 'BY DEFAULT. ' Function MergeSysVars(lcnn As adodb.Connection, lstrTbl As String) Dim lclsSysVarsTbl As clsSysVarsTbl Set lclsSysVarsTbl = New clsSysVarsTbl lclsSysVarsTbl.Init lcnn, lstrTbl, mcolSysVars MergeSysVars = True mcolSysVarsTbl.Add lclsSysVarsTbl, lstrTbl & lcnn.ConnectionString Exit_MergeSysVars: On Error Resume Next Exit Function Err_MergeSysVars: Select Case Err Case 0 '.insert Errors you wish to ignore here Resume Next Case Else '.All other errors will trap Beep MsgBox Err.Description, , "Error in Function clsSysVars.MergeSysVars" Resume Exit_MergeSysVars End Select Resume 0 '.FOR TROUBLESHOOTING End Function RefreshSysVars is a public method that allows the developer or the system to modify one or more SysVar in the table(s) and then cause a reread of all the tables used to build this SysVar set. It does nothing more that iterate mcolSysVarsTbl calling the MergeSysVars method of each clsSysVarsTbl instance in that collection. ' 'This function refreshes existing sysvars by reading all of the SysVars out of all 'the tables ' Public Function RefreshSysVars() On Error GoTo Err_RefreshSysVars Dim lclsSysVarsTbl As clsSysVarsTbl For Each lclsSysVarsTbl In mcolSysVarsTbl lclsSysVarsTbl.MergeSysVars Next lclsSysVarsTbl Exit_RefreshSysVars: Exit Function Err_RefreshSysVars: MsgBox Err.Description, , "Error in Function clsSysVars.RefreshSysVars" Resume Exit_RefreshSysVars Resume 0 '.FOR TROUBLESHOOTING End Function And finally, the SV method allows you to read a SysVar field out of a specific instance of clsSysVar (a specific SysVar). The default value read is the Value field but you can specify any of the other fields. ' 'This method is what actually returns a SysVar value from one of the fields 'The default value returned comes from the SV_VarValue field but you can 'specify any of the other fields, other than the SV_VarName which you must 'have to begin sith since it is the "key" for the collection, used to index 'into the collection. ' Function SV(strSVName As String, Optional strSVFld As String = "SV_VarValue") As Variant On Error GoTo Err_SV Select Case strSVFld Case "SV_VarValue" SV = mcolSysVars(strSVName).Value() Case "SV_Memo" SV = mcolSysVars(strSVName).Memo() Case "SV_UserEditable" SV = mcolSysVars(strSVName).UserEditable() Case "SV_AllowOverride" SV = mcolSysVars(strSVName).AllowOverride() Case Else End Select Exit_SV: Exit Function Err_SV: MsgBox Err.Description, , "Error in Function clsSysVars.SV" Resume Exit_SV Resume 0 '.FOR TROUBLESHOOTING End Function Summary The SysVar system is most logically broken down into three classes, one is the Service Class itself clsSysVars. This is the class that the developer interfaces with directly. This class then uses clsSysVarsTbl instances to read the data out of one or more SysVar tables, loading the data itself into clsSysVar instances which are saved in a collection directly in the Service Class. clsSysVars then has public wrapper methods that pass requests to refresh the SysVars and read SysVar values out of the clsSysVar class instances. Of course this could have been implemented differently; in fact my first SysVar system used a single class which ?did it all?. It was ugly however, and I think a three class ?system? implementing SysVars is an easier to understand way to implement it. Each of the three classes has its own job to do. ClsSysVars uses clsSysVarsTbl to read out the data into clsSysVar instances. clsSysVars manages the process, setting up and tearing down all the child classes, and wrapping requests for the child class methods to pass along the requests for data or services. SysVars will be used throughout the Framework to allow us to select from two or more possible behaviors. The table in the Framework will hold the default values to program default behaviors, but the table in the FE itself will be able to override the default values to change behaviors as needed in that specific FE or application. In the next article we will see SysVars used to do exactly that. John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com From bheid at appdevgrp.com Mon Mar 22 07:17:24 2004 From: bheid at appdevgrp.com (Bobby Heid) Date: Mon, 22 Mar 2004 08:17:24 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Weird VSS behavior. In-Reply-To: <916187228923D311A6FE00A0CC3FAA307D9225@ADGSERVER> Message-ID: <916187228923D311A6FE00A0CC3FAA305BB365@ADGSERVER> Hi all, We are using Access XP SP2 on Windows 2000. The weird behavior we are seeing is when you go to view a module in design mode that is not checked out and you tell it to not check it out, it will take you to the code MDI form, but the module that you requested is not there. That is, it does not open the module unless you check it out. Anyone else seen this? Any solutions? Thanks, Bobby From michael.broesdorf at web.de Mon Mar 22 09:29:40 2004 From: michael.broesdorf at web.de (=?us-ascii?Q?Michael_Brosdorf?=) Date: Mon, 22 Mar 2004 16:29:40 +0100 Subject: [AccessD] What help system works with Access 2003? In-Reply-To: <916187228923D311A6FE00A0CC3FAA305BB365@ADGSERVER> Message-ID: Dear group, which help system is best to use with Access 2003? Online help tells me, that if a help file is specified, Access will start Winhelp OR HTML Help - but how does it decide which? Are there any pros/cons for these systems? TIA, Michael From rmoore at comtechpst.com Mon Mar 22 09:38:16 2004 From: rmoore at comtechpst.com (Ron Moore) Date: Mon, 22 Mar 2004 10:38:16 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Can't Delete a Bad Autonumber Key: Message-ID: <000001c41023$b1b20430$b314a8c0@Comtech.Comtechpst.com> We have a A2K Repairs DB where an autonumber key is generated via code from our Customer Service DB. The Repairs DB has a bad key (212736) which cannot be deleted (last good autonumber key is 919). Error message reads, 'The search key was not found in any record'. Cascading Delete was turned off and we still get the error. The updates &/or creations are no longer taking place. At a loss, Ron Moore Sr. Database Administrator Comtech PST Corp. Melville, NY www.comtechpst.com From my.lists at verizon.net Mon Mar 22 09:49:58 2004 From: my.lists at verizon.net (Francisco H Tapia) Date: Mon, 22 Mar 2004 07:49:58 -0800 Subject: [AccessD] Can't Delete a Bad Autonumber Key: In-Reply-To: <000001c41023$b1b20430$b314a8c0@Comtech.Comtechpst.com> References: <000001c41023$b1b20430$b314a8c0@Comtech.Comtechpst.com> Message-ID: <405F0B26.6060404@verizon.net> One solution is to import everything into a new table and simply omit the record you don't want imported something like in the where clause like... Where ID <> 212736 (by the way... its typically safer (less corruptions) to allow JET to create the autonumber.) Hths Ron Moore wrote: >We have a A2K Repairs DB where an autonumber key is generated via code >from our Customer Service DB. The Repairs DB has a bad key (212736) >which cannot be deleted (last good autonumber key is 919). Error >message reads, 'The search key was not found in any record'. Cascading >Delete was turned off and we still get the error. The updates &/or >creations are no longer taking place. > > -- -Francisco From cfoust at infostatsystems.com Mon Mar 22 10:57:58 2004 From: cfoust at infostatsystems.com (Charlotte Foust) Date: Mon, 22 Mar 2004 08:57:58 -0800 Subject: [AccessD] Weird VSS behavior. Message-ID: It's just the way that VSS works, I'm afraid. With form or report modules, if you open the object in design view first and then go to the code window, you'll be in the code module for that unchecked-out form or report. With code modules, that doesn't seem to work. Charlotte Foust -----Original Message----- From: Bobby Heid [mailto:bheid at appdevgrp.com] Sent: Monday, March 22, 2004 5:17 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: [AccessD] Weird VSS behavior. Hi all, We are using Access XP SP2 on Windows 2000. The weird behavior we are seeing is when you go to view a module in design mode that is not checked out and you tell it to not check it out, it will take you to the code MDI form, but the module that you requested is not there. That is, it does not open the module unless you check it out. Anyone else seen this? Any solutions? Thanks, Bobby -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From ggonzalez at cccis.com Mon Mar 22 11:10:38 2004 From: ggonzalez at cccis.com (ggonzalez at cccis.com) Date: Mon, 22 Mar 2004 11:10:38 -0600 Subject: [AccessD] Not enough space on disk. In-Reply-To: <000001c41023$b1b20430$b314a8c0@Comtech.Comtechpst.com> Message-ID: I am gettin getting this error when I try to open a database on my computer. I have plenty od disk space available though. When I go to another computer and access the same database I have no problem. Does anybody have any sugestions why this is happening. Thanks, Gumaro From my.lists at verizon.net Mon Mar 22 11:25:52 2004 From: my.lists at verizon.net (Francisco H Tapia) Date: Mon, 22 Mar 2004 09:25:52 -0800 Subject: [AccessD] Not enough space on disk. In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <405F21A0.7070302@verizon.net> How much hdd space is available on your C: for the computer that gets this error?, how much ram does it have? ggonzalez at cccis.com wrote: > > >I am gettin getting this error when I try to open a database on my >computer. I have plenty od disk space available though. When I go to >another computer and access the same database I have no problem. > >Does anybody have any sugestions why this is happening. > >Thanks, Gumaro > > > -- -Francisco From ggonzalez at cccis.com Mon Mar 22 11:33:06 2004 From: ggonzalez at cccis.com (ggonzalez at cccis.com) Date: Mon, 22 Mar 2004 11:33:06 -0600 Subject: [AccessD] Not enough space on disk. In-Reply-To: <405F21A0.7070302@verizon.net> Message-ID: I have 3 Gig and 256 of ram Francisco H Tapia To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Sent by: accessd-bounces at databasea cc: dvisors.com Subject: Re: [AccessD] Not enough space on disk. 03/22/2004 11:25 AM Please respond to Access Developers discussion and problem solving How much hdd space is available on your C: for the computer that gets this error?, how much ram does it have? ggonzalez at cccis.com wrote: > > >I am gettin getting this error when I try to open a database on my >computer. I have plenty od disk space available though. When I go to >another computer and access the same database I have no problem. > >Does anybody have any sugestions why this is happening. > >Thanks, Gumaro > > > -- -Francisco -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From bheid at appdevgrp.com Mon Mar 22 11:43:21 2004 From: bheid at appdevgrp.com (Bobby Heid) Date: Mon, 22 Mar 2004 12:43:21 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Weird VSS behavior. In-Reply-To: <916187228923D311A6FE00A0CC3FAA307E9338@ADGSERVER> Message-ID: <916187228923D311A6FE00A0CC3FAA305BB369@ADGSERVER> Thanks for the reply Charlotte. The weird part is that it does work correctly some times. Bobby -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Charlotte Foust Sent: Monday, March 22, 2004 11:58 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] Weird VSS behavior. It's just the way that VSS works, I'm afraid. With form or report modules, if you open the object in design view first and then go to the code window, you'll be in the code module for that unchecked-out form or report. With code modules, that doesn't seem to work. Charlotte Foust -----Original Message----- From: Bobby Heid [mailto:bheid at appdevgrp.com] Sent: Monday, March 22, 2004 5:17 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: [AccessD] Weird VSS behavior. Hi all, We are using Access XP SP2 on Windows 2000. The weird behavior we are seeing is when you go to view a module in design mode that is not checked out and you tell it to not check it out, it will take you to the code MDI form, but the module that you requested is not there. That is, it does not open the module unless you check it out. Anyone else seen this? Any solutions? Thanks, Bobby -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From garykjos at hotmail.com Mon Mar 22 11:55:35 2004 From: garykjos at hotmail.com (Gary Kjos) Date: Mon, 22 Mar 2004 11:55:35 -0600 Subject: [AccessD] Not enough space on disk. Message-ID: Have you tried a reboot? Sometimes when weirdness happens that's the first thing to do. Gary Kjos garykjos at hotmail.com >From: ggonzalez at cccis.com >Reply-To: Access Developers discussion and problem >solving >To: Access Developers discussion and problem >solving >Subject: Re: [AccessD] Not enough space on disk. >Date: Mon, 22 Mar 2004 11:10:38 -0600 > > > > > >I am gettin getting this error when I try to open a database on my >computer. I have plenty od disk space available though. When I go to >another computer and access the same database I have no problem. > >Does anybody have any sugestions why this is happening. > >Thanks, Gumaro > >-- >_______________________________________________ >AccessD mailing list >AccessD at databaseadvisors.com >http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd >Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com _________________________________________________________________ Get reliable access on MSN 9 Dial-up. 3 months for the price of 1! (Limited-time offer) http://click.atdmt.com/AVE/go/onm00200361ave/direct/01/ From gustav at cactus.dk Mon Mar 22 12:02:23 2004 From: gustav at cactus.dk (Gustav Brock) Date: Mon, 22 Mar 2004 19:02:23 +0100 Subject: [AccessD] Not enough space on disk. In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <10536949901.20040322190223@cactus.dk> Hi Gonzalez If your disk is FAT32 formatted it could be a problem with a temp file. Try running a disk repair. /gustav > I have 3 Gig and 256 of ram From my.lists at verizon.net Mon Mar 22 12:22:54 2004 From: my.lists at verizon.net (Francisco H Tapia) Date: Mon, 22 Mar 2004 10:22:54 -0800 Subject: [AccessD] Not enough space on disk. In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <405F2EFE.6080805@verizon.net> try a reboot like suggested by Gary Kjos, additonally what OS is this running on? win95/98/ME/nt/2k/xp? ggonzalez at cccis.com wrote: > > >I have 3 Gig and 256 of ram > > > > > >How much hdd space is available on your C: for the computer that gets >this error?, how much ram does it have? > > >ggonzalez at cccis.com wrote: > > > >>I am gettin getting this error when I try to open a database on my >>computer. I have plenty od disk space available though. When I go to >>another computer and access the same database I have no problem. >> >>Does anybody have any sugestions why this is happening. >> >>Thanks, Gumaro >> >> >> >> >> > > > > <>-- -Francisco From ggonzalez at cccis.com Mon Mar 22 12:27:01 2004 From: ggonzalez at cccis.com (ggonzalez at cccis.com) Date: Mon, 22 Mar 2004 12:27:01 -0600 Subject: [AccessD] Not enough space on disk. In-Reply-To: <405F2EFE.6080805@verizon.net> Message-ID: I have tried rebooting and several of the options in the Microsoft knowledge base to no avail. Thanks |---------+------------------------------------> | | Francisco H Tapia | | | | | | Sent by: | | | accessd-bounces at databasea| | | dvisors.com | | | | | | | | | 03/22/2004 12:22 PM | | | Please respond to Access | | | Developers discussion and| | | problem solving | |---------+------------------------------------> >---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------| | | | To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving | | cc: | | Subject: Re: [AccessD] Not enough space on disk. | >---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------| try a reboot like suggested by Gary Kjos, additonally what OS is this running on? win95/98/ME/nt/2k/xp? ggonzalez at cccis.com wrote: > > >I have 3 Gig and 256 of ram > > > > > >How much hdd space is available on your C: for the computer that gets >this error?, how much ram does it have? > > >ggonzalez at cccis.com wrote: > > > >>I am gettin getting this error when I try to open a database on my >>computer. I have plenty od disk space available though. When I go to >>another computer and access the same database I have no problem. >> >>Does anybody have any sugestions why this is happening. >> >>Thanks, Gumaro >> >> >> >> >> > > > > <>-- -Francisco -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From rmoore at comtechpst.com Mon Mar 22 12:27:08 2004 From: rmoore at comtechpst.com (Ron Moore) Date: Mon, 22 Mar 2004 13:27:08 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Can't Delete a Bad Autonumber Key: In-Reply-To: <405F0B26.6060404@verizon.net> Message-ID: <000401c4103b$49223530$af14a8c0@Comtech.Comtechpst.com> Thanks Francisco, We're copying all records to a new table (less the bad key). BTW, my previous post was misleading. We are allowing the autonumber to generate the key. 'via code' was meant to say record add/update was via code (not the key itself). Thanks Again, Ron -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Francisco H Tapia Sent: Monday, March 22, 2004 10:50 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Can't Delete a Bad Autonumber Key: One solution is to import everything into a new table and simply omit the record you don't want imported something like in the where clause like... Where ID <> 212736 (by the way... its typically safer (less corruptions) to allow JET to create the autonumber.) Hths Ron Moore wrote: >We have a A2K Repairs DB where an autonumber key is generated via code >from our Customer Service DB. The Repairs DB has a bad key (212736) >which cannot be deleted (last good autonumber key is 919). Error >message reads, 'The search key was not found in any record'. Cascading >Delete was turned off and we still get the error. The updates &/or >creations are no longer taking place. > > -- -Francisco -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From John.Clark at niagaracounty.com Mon Mar 22 12:35:33 2004 From: John.Clark at niagaracounty.com (John Clark) Date: Mon, 22 Mar 2004 13:35:33 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Not enough space on disk. Message-ID: Are you running on a network at all? If so, what NOS? And, if so, are you logged in as yourself, on the other PCs? >>> ggonzalez at cccis.com 3/22/2004 1:27:01 PM >>> I have tried rebooting and several of the options in the Microsoft knowledge base to no avail. Thanks |---------+------------------------------------> | | Francisco H Tapia | | | | | | Sent by: | | | accessd-bounces at databasea| | | dvisors.com | | | | | | | | | 03/22/2004 12:22 PM | | | Please respond to Access | | | Developers discussion and| | | problem solving | |---------+------------------------------------> >---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------| | | | To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving | | cc: | | Subject: Re: [AccessD] Not enough space on disk. | >---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------| try a reboot like suggested by Gary Kjos, additonally what OS is this running on? win95/98/ME/nt/2k/xp? ggonzalez at cccis.com wrote: > > >I have 3 Gig and 256 of ram > > > > > >How much hdd space is available on your C: for the computer that gets >this error?, how much ram does it have? > > >ggonzalez at cccis.com wrote: > > > >>I am gettin getting this error when I try to open a database on my >>computer. I have plenty od disk space available though. When I go to >>another computer and access the same database I have no problem. >> >>Does anybody have any sugestions why this is happening. >> >>Thanks, Gumaro >> >> >> >> >> > > > > <>-- -Francisco -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From DWUTKA at marlow.com Mon Mar 22 13:00:05 2004 From: DWUTKA at marlow.com (DWUTKA at marlow.com) Date: Mon, 22 Mar 2004 13:00:05 -0600 Subject: [AccessD] Using Access for Reports w/an ASP app? Message-ID: <2F8793082E00D4119A1700B0D0216BF80222799E@main2.marlow.com> Honestly don't know Susan. To be quite frank, I have never used either. It's very simple to have Access 'export' a report, to a file, which is then 'redirected' through ASP to the user. The system I built was put in place due to the 'prompts' that the reports were giving, which were no problem on the local LAN, where the users had direct access with Access, but for remote users, those reports took forever, and Terminal Server was getting bogged down (not too mention they were having printing problems). Quite frankly, I like snapshot files better then any other format, simply because I find that it keeps the 'formatting' closer to the actual report (in my experience). But I have never used the 'snapshot Viewer control'. Drew -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Susan Harkins Sent: Friday, March 19, 2004 5:21 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: [AccessD] Using Access for Reports w/an ASP app? Drew -- this really isn't in response to your post, but just a general question that relates more back to the original problem -- kind of.. Does the Snapshot Viewer control solution have some advantage over XML? Since Access automatically generates web-ready files, I'm curious why someone might choose the control solution instead. It's easy to pull together, but so is an XM-based solution. Is there some advantage. Susan H. From ssharkins at bellsouth.net Mon Mar 22 13:24:11 2004 From: ssharkins at bellsouth.net (Susan Harkins) Date: Mon, 22 Mar 2004 14:24:11 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Using Access for Reports w/an ASP app? In-Reply-To: <2F8793082E00D4119A1700B0D0216BF80222799E@main2.marlow.com> Message-ID: <20040322192410.NULX1781.imf18aec.mail.bellsouth.net@SUSANONE> So far, the main differences I've run across are: 1. The Snapshot Viewer control is a much simpler technique. You don't need any real expertise with Access or SV to use it. Generating a web-ready report with Access is fairly easy, but you have to know what you're doing -- even if you use the ui. 2. The XML feature generates an actual page which means everytime you have to update the report, you have to update the actual Web page. With the SV, you just save the new .snp file to the appropriate Web folder. You don't have to actually update the page with the XML code for the new report. Now, there may be a way around that one, but I don't know what it is besides automation, which kind of negates the need for the SV technique in the first place. 3. The SV gives you an exact copy -- can't get that with XML. This isn't a recommendation for SV and against XML by any means. It's just a coincidence that I happen to be writing about the SV technique and I had to think through the advantages/disadvantages -- just didn't want to miss anything if I could help it. Susan H. Honestly don't know Susan. To be quite frank, I have never used either. It's very simple to have Access 'export' a report, to a file, which is then 'redirected' through ASP to the user. The system I built was put in place due to the 'prompts' that the reports were giving, which were no problem on the local LAN, where the users had direct access with Access, but for remote users, those reports took forever, and Terminal Server was getting bogged down (not too mention they were having printing problems). Quite frankly, I like snapshot files better then any other format, simply because I find that it keeps the 'formatting' closer to the actual report (in my experience). But I have never used the 'snapshot Viewer control'. From Erwin.Craps at ithelps.be Mon Mar 22 13:26:03 2004 From: Erwin.Craps at ithelps.be (Erwin Craps - IT Helps) Date: Mon, 22 Mar 2004 20:26:03 +0100 Subject: [AccessD] Not enough space on disk. Message-ID: <46B976F2B698FF46A4FE7636509B22DF0AD65D@stekelbes.ithelps.local> You can get this error when having to many (other) files in the temp folder. There is a limit on the number of files you can have in one folder. Depending on the filesystem FAT or FAT32 can cause this. Close all applications and deletes all files in on more folowing folders depending on the OS. C:\TEMP C:\WINDOWS\TEMP C:\WINNT\TEMP C:\Documents and Settings\YOUR USERNAME\Local Settings\temp Sometimes the TEMP is TMP Erwin -----Oorspronkelijk bericht----- Van: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] Namens John Clark Verzonden: maandag 22 maart 2004 19:36 Aan: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Onderwerp: Re: [AccessD] Not enough space on disk. Are you running on a network at all? If so, what NOS? And, if so, are you logged in as yourself, on the other PCs? >>> ggonzalez at cccis.com 3/22/2004 1:27:01 PM >>> I have tried rebooting and several of the options in the Microsoft knowledge base to no avail. Thanks |---------+------------------------------------> | | Francisco H Tapia | | | | | | Sent by: | | | accessd-bounces at databasea| | | dvisors.com | | | | | | | | | 03/22/2004 12:22 PM | | | Please respond to Access | | | Developers discussion and| | | problem solving | |---------+------------------------------------> >----------------------------------------------------------------------- ----------------------------------------------------------------------| | | | To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving | | cc: | | Subject: Re: [AccessD] Not enough space on disk. | >----------------------------------------------------------------------- ----------------------------------------------------------------------| try a reboot like suggested by Gary Kjos, additonally what OS is this running on? win95/98/ME/nt/2k/xp? ggonzalez at cccis.com wrote: > > >I have 3 Gig and 256 of ram > > > > > >How much hdd space is available on your C: for the computer that gets >this error?, how much ram does it have? > > >ggonzalez at cccis.com wrote: > > > >>I am gettin getting this error when I try to open a database on my >>computer. I have plenty od disk space available though. When I go to >>another computer and access the same database I have no problem. >> >>Does anybody have any sugestions why this is happening. >> >>Thanks, Gumaro >> >> >> >> >> > > > > <>-- -Francisco -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From ggonzalez at cccis.com Mon Mar 22 14:05:04 2004 From: ggonzalez at cccis.com (ggonzalez at cccis.com) Date: Mon, 22 Mar 2004 14:05:04 -0600 Subject: [AccessD] Not enough space on disk. In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Yes, Novel is the NOS. It seems that is the problem. Even though I was trying to access local databases the security file that I use is on the network. when I changed the security file locally everything worked fine, I then requested more space on the network and all worked there also. Thanks to everyone for their help. "John Clark" .com> cc: Sent by: Subject: Re: [AccessD] Not enough space on disk. accessd-bounces at databasea dvisors.com 03/22/2004 12:35 PM Please respond to Access Developers discussion and problem solving Are you running on a network at all? If so, what NOS? And, if so, are you logged in as yourself, on the other PCs? >>> ggonzalez at cccis.com 3/22/2004 1:27:01 PM >>> I have tried rebooting and several of the options in the Microsoft knowledge base to no avail. Thanks |---------+------------------------------------> | | Francisco H Tapia | | | | | | Sent by: | | | accessd-bounces at databasea| | | dvisors.com | | | | | | | | | 03/22/2004 12:22 PM | | | Please respond to Access | | | Developers discussion and| | | problem solving | |---------+------------------------------------> >---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------| | | | To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving | | cc: | | Subject: Re: [AccessD] Not enough space on disk. | >---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------| try a reboot like suggested by Gary Kjos, additonally what OS is this running on? win95/98/ME/nt/2k/xp? ggonzalez at cccis.com wrote: > > >I have 3 Gig and 256 of ram > > > > > >How much hdd space is available on your C: for the computer that gets >this error?, how much ram does it have? > > >ggonzalez at cccis.com wrote: > > > >>I am gettin getting this error when I try to open a database on my >>computer. I have plenty od disk space available though. When I go to >>another computer and access the same database I have no problem. >> >>Does anybody have any sugestions why this is happening. >> >>Thanks, Gumaro >> >> >> >> >> > > > > <>-- -Francisco -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From Patricia.O'Connor at DFA.STATE.NY.US Mon Mar 22 14:26:31 2004 From: Patricia.O'Connor at DFA.STATE.NY.US (O'Connor, Patricia ) Date: Mon, 22 Mar 2004 15:26:31 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Execute stored query using ADO Message-ID: Charlotte. I had to switch the connection to the "current project" not use the oracle connection This worked '************************************************************************* Set cnn = CurrentProject.Connection '* SET to Current Database cnn.Execute "q01aCreateNycFsTable", lngAffected, adExecuteNoRecords I was not able to get the other to work Thanks Patti > -----Original Message----- > From: Charlotte Foust [mailto:cfoust at infostatsystems.com] > Sent: Friday, March 19, 2004 05:05 PM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: RE: [AccessD] Execute stored query using ADO > > > I've used that syntax to execute a saved query in Access before. Can > you successfully execute the query using DAO? > > Charlotte Foust > > -----Original Message----- > From: O'Connor, Patricia [mailto:Patricia.O'Connor at DFA.STATE.NY.US] > Sent: Friday, March 19, 2004 1:46 PM > To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' > Subject: [AccessD] Execute stored query using ADO > > > Hi all > > I am attempting to set up a job stream in VBA. The first example works > fine > > strSql = "INSERT INTO TBL_EXPFSDT (EXPFS_BASE_DT)" > strSql = strSql & " VALUES (TO_DATE('" & dtNew & "', > 'MM/DD/YYYY'))" > cmd.CommandText = strSql > cmd.ActiveConnection = cnn > cmd.CommandType = adCmdText > cmd.Execute lngAffected, , adExecuteNoRecords > > Then next step is to execute a stored passthru query named > q01aCreateNycFsTable the following does not work > Set cmd = New ADODB.Command > cmd.ActiveConnection = cnn > cmd.CommandText = "q01aCreateNycFsTable" > cmd.CommandType = adCmdStoredProc > cmd.Execute lngAffected, , adExecuteNoRecords > > This is driving me nuts, I have tried several other > combinations. I have > other queries I wish to do the same thing but do not want to have to > string out like in first example - TOO long. > > How do I run an access query using ADO or do I have to use DAO. > > Thanks > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > From cfoust at infostatsystems.com Mon Mar 22 14:33:33 2004 From: cfoust at infostatsystems.com (Charlotte Foust) Date: Mon, 22 Mar 2004 12:33:33 -0800 Subject: [AccessD] Execute stored query using ADO Message-ID: What were you setting the connection to before? Are you saying that you couldn't get the Cmd object code to work using CurrentProject.Connection as the connection? Charlotte Foust -----Original Message----- From: O'Connor, Patricia [mailto:Patricia.O'Connor at DFA.STATE.NY.US] Sent: Monday, March 22, 2004 12:27 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: [AccessD] Execute stored query using ADO Charlotte. I had to switch the connection to the "current project" not use the oracle connection This worked '*********************************************************************** ** Set cnn = CurrentProject.Connection '* SET to Current Database cnn.Execute "q01aCreateNycFsTable", lngAffected, adExecuteNoRecords I was not able to get the other to work Thanks Patti > -----Original Message----- > From: Charlotte Foust [mailto:cfoust at infostatsystems.com] > Sent: Friday, March 19, 2004 05:05 PM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: RE: [AccessD] Execute stored query using ADO > > > I've used that syntax to execute a saved query in Access before. Can > you successfully execute the query using DAO? > > Charlotte Foust > > -----Original Message----- > From: O'Connor, Patricia [mailto:Patricia.O'Connor at DFA.STATE.NY.US] > Sent: Friday, March 19, 2004 1:46 PM > To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' > Subject: [AccessD] Execute stored query using ADO > > > Hi all > > I am attempting to set up a job stream in VBA. The first example works > fine > > strSql = "INSERT INTO TBL_EXPFSDT (EXPFS_BASE_DT)" > strSql = strSql & " VALUES (TO_DATE('" & dtNew & "', > 'MM/DD/YYYY'))" > cmd.CommandText = strSql > cmd.ActiveConnection = cnn > cmd.CommandType = adCmdText > cmd.Execute lngAffected, , adExecuteNoRecords > > Then next step is to execute a stored passthru query named > q01aCreateNycFsTable the following does not work > Set cmd = New ADODB.Command > cmd.ActiveConnection = cnn > cmd.CommandText = "q01aCreateNycFsTable" > cmd.CommandType = adCmdStoredProc > cmd.Execute lngAffected, , adExecuteNoRecords > > This is driving me nuts, I have tried several other > combinations. I have > other queries I wish to do the same thing but do not want to have to > string out like in first example - TOO long. > > How do I run an access query using ADO or do I have to use DAO. > > Thanks > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From dkalsow at yahoo.com Mon Mar 22 14:51:40 2004 From: dkalsow at yahoo.com (Dale Kalsow) Date: Mon, 22 Mar 2004 12:51:40 -0800 (PST) Subject: [AccessD] Web Pages in Access Message-ID: <20040322205140.23889.qmail@web9804.mail.yahoo.com> Does Anyone have experiance with creating web pages through Acess. I have a form that currently works within access. It displays the fields of a table and then has a subform that displays (and allows modifications) all of the parts that go along with the master record. I can export the form to html but loose the subform and have not been able to figure out how to recrate the functionally of the subform. All help is appreciated! Thanks! Dale Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Finance Tax Center - File online. File on time. From Jdemarco at hudsonhealthplan.org Mon Mar 22 14:53:39 2004 From: Jdemarco at hudsonhealthplan.org (Jim DeMarco) Date: Mon, 22 Mar 2004 15:53:39 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Using Access for Reports w/an ASP app? Message-ID: <22F1CCD5171D17419CB37FEEE09D5F9902E800C4@TTNEXCHSRV1.hshhp.com> There was an article in the October 2003 Smart Access on dynamically creating XML reports in A2K2 using .NET that I thought looked doable in ASP (actually sending criteria to an existing report and outputting it as XML). For a primer on XML reports Susan and I wrote an article on the basics of Access XML reporting for Inside Microsoft Access but I couldn't find my copy to give you the date. Sometime last year though. HTH, Jim DeMarco Director Application Development Hudson Health Plan -----Original Message----- From: Susan Harkins [mailto:ssharkins at bellsouth.net] Sent: Monday, March 22, 2004 2:24 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: [AccessD] Using Access for Reports w/an ASP app? So far, the main differences I've run across are: 1. The Snapshot Viewer control is a much simpler technique. You don't need any real expertise with Access or SV to use it. Generating a web-ready report with Access is fairly easy, but you have to know what you're doing -- even if you use the ui. 2. The XML feature generates an actual page which means everytime you have to update the report, you have to update the actual Web page. With the SV, you just save the new .snp file to the appropriate Web folder. You don't have to actually update the page with the XML code for the new report. Now, there may be a way around that one, but I don't know what it is besides automation, which kind of negates the need for the SV technique in the first place. 3. The SV gives you an exact copy -- can't get that with XML. This isn't a recommendation for SV and against XML by any means. It's just a coincidence that I happen to be writing about the SV technique and I had to think through the advantages/disadvantages -- just didn't want to miss anything if I could help it. Susan H. Honestly don't know Susan. To be quite frank, I have never used either. It's very simple to have Access 'export' a report, to a file, which is then 'redirected' through ASP to the user. The system I built was put in place due to the 'prompts' that the reports were giving, which were no problem on the local LAN, where the users had direct access with Access, but for remote users, those reports took forever, and Terminal Server was getting bogged down (not too mention they were having printing problems). Quite frankly, I like snapshot files better then any other format, simply because I find that it keeps the 'formatting' closer to the actual report (in my experience). But I have never used the 'snapshot Viewer control'. -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com *********************************************************************************** "This electronic message is intended to be for the use only of the named recipient, and may contain information from Hudson Health Plan (HHP) that is confidential or privileged. If you are not the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any disclosure, copying, distribution or use of the contents of this message is strictly prohibited. If you have received this message in error or are not the named recipient, please notify us immediately, either by contacting the sender at the electronic mail address noted above or calling HHP at (914) 631-1611. If you are not the intended recipient, please do not forward this email to anyone, and delete and destroy all copies of this message. Thank You". *********************************************************************************** From ssharkins at bellsouth.net Mon Mar 22 15:00:24 2004 From: ssharkins at bellsouth.net (Susan Harkins) Date: Mon, 22 Mar 2004 16:00:24 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Using Access for Reports w/an ASP app? In-Reply-To: <22F1CCD5171D17419CB37FEEE09D5F9902E800C4@TTNEXCHSRV1.hshhp.com> Message-ID: <20040322210022.PZPE1715.imf16aec.mail.bellsouth.net@SUSANONE> For my own purposes, I was looking for an easy solution that didn't involve a lot of expertise any anything -- not even Web design -- and the SV technique wins on that round. ;) Susan H. There was an article in the October 2003 Smart Access on dynamically creating XML reports in A2K2 using .NET that I thought looked doable in ASP (actually sending criteria to an existing report and outputting it as XML). For a primer on XML reports Susan and I wrote an article on the basics of Access XML reporting for Inside Microsoft Access but I couldn't find my copy to give you the date. Sometime last year though. From Jdemarco at hudsonhealthplan.org Mon Mar 22 15:07:08 2004 From: Jdemarco at hudsonhealthplan.org (Jim DeMarco) Date: Mon, 22 Mar 2004 16:07:08 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Using Access for Reports w/an ASP app? Message-ID: <22F1CCD5171D17419CB37FEEE09D5F99030FE5D1@TTNEXCHSRV1.hshhp.com> True. BTW the Smart Access article was May 03, sorry. Jim D. -----Original Message----- From: Susan Harkins [mailto:ssharkins at bellsouth.net] Sent: Monday, March 22, 2004 4:00 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: [AccessD] Using Access for Reports w/an ASP app? For my own purposes, I was looking for an easy solution that didn't involve a lot of expertise any anything -- not even Web design -- and the SV technique wins on that round. ;) Susan H. There was an article in the October 2003 Smart Access on dynamically creating XML reports in A2K2 using .NET that I thought looked doable in ASP (actually sending criteria to an existing report and outputting it as XML). For a primer on XML reports Susan and I wrote an article on the basics of Access XML reporting for Inside Microsoft Access but I couldn't find my copy to give you the date. Sometime last year though. -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com *********************************************************************************** "This electronic message is intended to be for the use only of the named recipient, and may contain information from Hudson Health Plan (HHP) that is confidential or privileged. If you are not the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any disclosure, copying, distribution or use of the contents of this message is strictly prohibited. If you have received this message in error or are not the named recipient, please notify us immediately, either by contacting the sender at the electronic mail address noted above or calling HHP at (914) 631-1611. If you are not the intended recipient, please do not forward this email to anyone, and delete and destroy all copies of this message. Thank You". *********************************************************************************** From Subscriptions at servicexp.com Mon Mar 22 16:10:12 2004 From: Subscriptions at servicexp.com (Robert Gracie) Date: Mon, 22 Mar 2004 17:10:12 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Framework Discussion - SysVars In-Reply-To: Message-ID: John, No save guards on the SV call, say if the class has, for whatever reason, gone out of scope? Robert Gracie www.servicexp.com -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of John W. Colby Sent: Sunday, March 21, 2004 11:37 PM To: AccessD Subject: [AccessD] Framework Discussion - SysVars The following is a discussion of Sysvars. The demo file can be downloaded from my site. I have begun deleting older MDBs out of the zip file to slim it back down since the original ZIPs are out there for the demos for the earlier documents. There is a form in the V5 mdb for demoing the SysVar system in that MDB. SNIP ' Function SV(strSVName As String, Optional strSVFld As String = "SV_VarValue") As Variant On Error GoTo Err_SV Select Case strSVFld Case "SV_VarValue" SV = mcolSysVars(strSVName).Value() Case "SV_Memo" SV = mcolSysVars(strSVName).Memo() Case "SV_UserEditable" SV = mcolSysVars(strSVName).UserEditable() Case "SV_AllowOverride" SV = mcolSysVars(strSVName).AllowOverride() Case Else End Select Exit_SV: Exit Function Err_SV: MsgBox Err.Description, , "Error in Function clsSysVars.SV" Resume Exit_SV Resume 0 '.FOR TROUBLESHOOTING End Function Summary The SysVar system is most logically broken down into three classes, one is the Service Class itself clsSysVars. This is the class that the developer interfaces with directly. This class then uses clsSysVarsTbl instances to read the data out of one or more SysVar tables, loading the data itself into clsSysVar instances which are saved in a collection directly in the Service Class. clsSysVars then has public wrapper methods that pass requests to refresh the SysVars and read SysVar values out of the clsSysVar class instances. Of course this could have been implemented differently; in fact my first SysVar system used a single class which ?did it all?. It was ugly however, and I think a three class ?system? implementing SysVars is an easier to understand way to implement it. Each of the three classes has its own job to do. ClsSysVars uses clsSysVarsTbl to read out the data into clsSysVar instances. clsSysVars manages the process, setting up and tearing down all the child classes, and wrapping requests for the child class methods to pass along the requests for data or services. SysVars will be used throughout the Framework to allow us to select from two or more possible behaviors. The table in the Framework will hold the default values to program default behaviors, but the table in the FE itself will be able to override the default values to change behaviors as needed in that specific FE or application. In the next article we will see SysVars used to do exactly that. John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com Mon Mar 22 19:45:32 2004 From: jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com (John W. Colby) Date: Mon, 22 Mar 2004 20:45:32 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Framework Discussion - SysVars In-Reply-To: Message-ID: SV as demoed is nothing more than a wrapper to the function in the class. In a live system the SysVar class cannot go out of scope since it is global. If the class is being terminated, you want to find and fix that, not just reinstantiate it. John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Robert Gracie Sent: Monday, March 22, 2004 5:10 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] Framework Discussion - SysVars John, No save guards on the SV call, say if the class has, for whatever reason, gone out of scope? Robert Gracie www.servicexp.com -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of John W. Colby Sent: Sunday, March 21, 2004 11:37 PM To: AccessD Subject: [AccessD] Framework Discussion - SysVars The following is a discussion of Sysvars. The demo file can be downloaded from my site. I have begun deleting older MDBs out of the zip file to slim it back down since the original ZIPs are out there for the demos for the earlier documents. There is a form in the V5 mdb for demoing the SysVar system in that MDB. SNIP ' Function SV(strSVName As String, Optional strSVFld As String = "SV_VarValue") As Variant On Error GoTo Err_SV Select Case strSVFld Case "SV_VarValue" SV = mcolSysVars(strSVName).Value() Case "SV_Memo" SV = mcolSysVars(strSVName).Memo() Case "SV_UserEditable" SV = mcolSysVars(strSVName).UserEditable() Case "SV_AllowOverride" SV = mcolSysVars(strSVName).AllowOverride() Case Else End Select Exit_SV: Exit Function Err_SV: MsgBox Err.Description, , "Error in Function clsSysVars.SV" Resume Exit_SV Resume 0 '.FOR TROUBLESHOOTING End Function Summary The SysVar system is most logically broken down into three classes, one is the Service Class itself clsSysVars. This is the class that the developer interfaces with directly. This class then uses clsSysVarsTbl instances to read the data out of one or more SysVar tables, loading the data itself into clsSysVar instances which are saved in a collection directly in the Service Class. clsSysVars then has public wrapper methods that pass requests to refresh the SysVars and read SysVar values out of the clsSysVar class instances. Of course this could have been implemented differently; in fact my first SysVar system used a single class which ?did it all?. It was ugly however, and I think a three class ?system? implementing SysVars is an easier to understand way to implement it. Each of the three classes has its own job to do. ClsSysVars uses clsSysVarsTbl to read out the data into clsSysVar instances. clsSysVars manages the process, setting up and tearing down all the child classes, and wrapping requests for the child class methods to pass along the requests for data or services. SysVars will be used throughout the Framework to allow us to select from two or more possible behaviors. The table in the Framework will hold the default values to program default behaviors, but the table in the FE itself will be able to override the default values to change behaviors as needed in that specific FE or application. In the next article we will see SysVars used to do exactly that. John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From deanellis at iprimus.com.au Tue Mar 23 01:51:35 2004 From: deanellis at iprimus.com.au (Dean Ellis) Date: Tue, 23 Mar 2004 18:21:35 +1030 (Cen. Australia Daylight Time) Subject: [AccessD] Detecting CD Drive Constantly Message-ID: <405FEC87.000008.59601@jedel> Hi guys Thanks for your websites showing the code for detecting CD Drive Letters. I don't think it's quite what I'm after. Correct me if I'm wrong, but one will only tell what type of drive the leter that I type in is, and the other just provides a list of drive letters to choose from. What I am after is some code that I can use so that when I open the db from the CD Rom in ANY machine, be it Laptop, Desktop, W98, XP yahda yahda yahda, It determines the CD Drive Letter. This will then enable me to use that information to create a file path to some media that can then be used by the Active X Controls, or to view some images. If the code shown to me does this, then could some one provide me with some guidance on how to use it as the code seems to be there, but no real instructions on what to place where and on what kind of control etc. The two site are: http://www.vb2themax.com/NLItem.asp?PageID=NewsletterBank&ID=1040 http://www.mvps.org/access/api/api0003.htm Cheers Dean From caa at highway.com.br Tue Mar 23 02:39:00 2004 From: caa at highway.com.br (Carlos Alberto Alves) Date: Tue, 23 Mar 2004 05:39:00 -0300 Subject: [AccessD] Synchronize with Palm or PocketPC In-Reply-To: <000501c40ded$53313300$de1811d8@DanWaters> References: <000501c40ded$53313300$de1811d8@DanWaters> Message-ID: On Fri, 19 Mar 2004 14:04:02 -0600, Dan Waters wrote: > Hello everyone, > > > > I have a client where a possibly good solution would be to enter > information > into a PDA and then synchronize it with an Access app once per day. > > > > Can anyone point me in a direction to learn more about this? Anyone have > any good/lousy experiences? > > > > Thanks! > > Dan Waters > Take a look at http://www.syware.com/ HTH, -- ****************************** * Carlos Alberto Alves * * Child Neurologist * * Systems Analyst/Programmer * * Rio de Janeiro, Brazil * * mailto:caa at highway.com.br * ****************************** From stuart at lexacorp.com.pg Tue Mar 23 02:44:32 2004 From: stuart at lexacorp.com.pg (Stuart McLachlan) Date: Tue, 23 Mar 2004 18:44:32 +1000 Subject: [AccessD] Detecting CD Drive Constantly In-Reply-To: <405FEC87.000008.59601@jedel> Message-ID: <40608590.7960.29EE5B1@localhost> On 23 Mar 2004 at 18:21, Dean Ellis wrote: > Hi guys > > Thanks for your websites showing the code for detecting CD Drive Letters. I > don't think it's quite what I'm after. Correct me if I'm wrong, but one will > only tell what type of drive the leter that I type in is, and the other just > provides a list of drive letters to choose from. > > What I am after is some code that I can use so that when I open the db from > the CD Rom in ANY machine, be it Laptop, Desktop, W98, XP yahda yahda yahda, > It determines the CD Drive Letter. This will then enable me to use that > information to create a file path to some media that can then be used by the > Active X Controls, or to view some images. > If you are opening the db from the CD ROM, you don't need to mess about identifying a CD ROM, you just need to identify where the application is. Left$(Currentdb.Name,1) will give you the driveletter that the application is on. Here's the function I use to get the actual directory it is in: Static Function ApplDir() As String Dim strApplDir As String Dim strTemp As String If strApplDir = "" Then strTemp = DBEngine(0)(0).Name strApplDir = Left$(strTemp, InStrRev(strTemp, "\")) End If ApplDir = strApplDir End Function -- Lexacorp Ltd http://www.lexacorp.com.pg Information Technology Consultancy, Software Development,System Support. From dkalsow at yahoo.com Tue Mar 23 05:29:35 2004 From: dkalsow at yahoo.com (Dale Kalsow) Date: Tue, 23 Mar 2004 03:29:35 -0800 (PST) Subject: [AccessD] Creating Web Pages from Access In-Reply-To: <40608590.7960.29EE5B1@localhost> Message-ID: <20040323112935.36604.qmail@web9804.mail.yahoo.com> Good Morning, Does anyone create web pages from within access? I currently have an access form that contains all the master information for a return. I also have a subform on the master form that contains multiple records (the part numbers of the return). When I export the form to a web page the main part is ok but I look the subform. Does anyone know how to create the subform's functionality on a web page? Thanks for any and all help! Dale Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Finance Tax Center - File online. File on time. From stuart at lexacorp.com.pg Tue Mar 23 05:43:55 2004 From: stuart at lexacorp.com.pg (Stuart McLachlan) Date: Tue, 23 Mar 2004 21:43:55 +1000 Subject: [AccessD] Creating Web Pages from Access In-Reply-To: <20040323112935.36604.qmail@web9804.mail.yahoo.com> References: <40608590.7960.29EE5B1@localhost> Message-ID: <4060AF9B.24485.3431F90@localhost> On 23 Mar 2004 at 3:29, Dale Kalsow wrote: > > Does anyone create web pages from within access? I currently have an > access form that contains all the master information for a return. I > also have a subform on the master form that contains multiple records > (the part numbers of the return). When I export the form to a web > page the main part is ok but I look the subform. Does anyone know how > to create the subform's functionality on a web page? > One way is to create a report which contains the information on the form and subform and export that to HTML. (Note that it will be static - the page will be as long as need to dispaly all of the part numbers). -- Lexacorp Ltd http://www.lexacorp.com.pg Information Technology Consultancy, Software Development,System Support. From dkalsow at yahoo.com Tue Mar 23 06:01:08 2004 From: dkalsow at yahoo.com (Dale Kalsow) Date: Tue, 23 Mar 2004 04:01:08 -0800 (PST) Subject: [AccessD] Creating Web Pages from Access In-Reply-To: <4060AF9B.24485.3431F90@localhost> Message-ID: <20040323120108.78273.qmail@web9801.mail.yahoo.com> Stuart, I need it to be like a form because I need the user to be able to edit and update information. Stuart McLachlan wrote: On 23 Mar 2004 at 3:29, Dale Kalsow wrote: > > Does anyone create web pages from within access? I currently have an > access form that contains all the master information for a return. I > also have a subform on the master form that contains multiple records > (the part numbers of the return). When I export the form to a web > page the main part is ok but I look the subform. Does anyone know how > to create the subform's functionality on a web page? > One way is to create a report which contains the information on the form and subform and export that to HTML. (Note that it will be static - the page will be as long as need to dispaly all of the part numbers). -- Lexacorp Ltd http://www.lexacorp.com.pg Information Technology Consultancy, Software Development,System Support. -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Finance Tax Center - File online. File on time. From chris at thecube.net Tue Mar 23 06:16:44 2004 From: chris at thecube.net (chris at thecube.net) Date: Tue, 23 Mar 2004 07:16:44 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Web Pages in Access Message-ID: <5FC98047FE3A413C8074115FF9056B43.MAI@freeparking.com> Dale, Looks like you need to start venturing into ASP, if you cade code using recordsets then ASP is not really that big a step. Let me know if you would like a kick start and/or sample ASP Cheers Chris ----- Original Message ----- From: Dale Kalsow To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Sent: Mon, 22 Mar 2004 12:51:40 -0800 (PST) Subject: [AccessD] Web Pages in Access Does Anyone have experiance with creating web pages through Acess. I have a form that currently works within access. It displays the fields of a table and then has a subform that displays (and allows modifications) all of the parts that go along with the master record. I can export the form to html but loose the subform and have not been able to figure out how to recrate the functionally of the subform. All help is appreciated! Thanks! Dale Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Finance Tax Center - File online. File on time. -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From paul.hartland at fsmail.net Tue Mar 23 06:44:48 2004 From: paul.hartland at fsmail.net (paul.hartland at fsmail.net) Date: Tue, 23 Mar 2004 13:44:48 +0100 (CET) Subject: [AccessD] Web Pages in Access Message-ID: <26981847.1080045888094.JavaMail.www@wwinf3003> Tell you what, I'm just about to start getting into HTML, ASP etc (horrified at the thought, but it has to be done). So if anyone has sample code for a pretty secure logon page that will then direct the user to a menu page if the password is correct etc I would like to see the code, preferably with a simple explanation of how it works. I have found various little bits and pieces on the web but could never get them to work properly. Paul Hartland Message date : Mar 23 2004, 12:34 PM >From : chris at thecube.net To : accessd at databaseadvisors.com Copy to : Subject : Re: [AccessD] Web Pages in Access Dale, Looks like you need to start venturing into ASP, if you cade code using recordsets then ASP is not really that big a step. Let me know if you would like a kick start and/or sample ASP Cheers Chris ----- Original Message ----- From: Dale Kalsow To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Sent: Mon, 22 Mar 2004 12:51:40 -0800 (PST) Subject: [AccessD] Web Pages in Access Does Anyone have experiance with creating web pages through Acess. I have a form that currently works within access. It displays the fields of a table and then has a subform that displays (and allows modifications) all of the parts that go along with the master record. I can export the form to html but loose the subform and have not been able to figure out how to recrate the functionally of the subform. All help is appreciated! Thanks! Dale Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Finance Tax Center - File online. File on time. -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com [ (no filename) (0.2 Kb) ] Freeserve AnyTime - HALF PRICE for the first 3 months - Save ?7.50 a month www.freeserve.com/anytime From accessd667 at yahoo.com Tue Mar 23 07:19:56 2004 From: accessd667 at yahoo.com (S D) Date: Tue, 23 Mar 2004 05:19:56 -0800 (PST) Subject: [AccessD] VBE Error Handler Message-ID: <20040323131956.12049.qmail@web61105.mail.yahoo.com> Hi group, i downloaded the VBE Error Handler dll from www.databaseadvisors written by John Colby. I really love this program....almost. It works great however I want to change the message that the user gets. Is that possible? Thnx in advance. Regards Sander Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Finance Tax Center - File online. File on time. From jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com Tue Mar 23 07:34:43 2004 From: jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com (John W. Colby) Date: Tue, 23 Mar 2004 08:34:43 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] VBE Error Handler In-Reply-To: <20040323131956.12049.qmail@web61105.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: In short, it is not "programmable". The message the user gets is the native Access error plus the function / module name. What did you have in mind? John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of S D Sent: Tuesday, March 23, 2004 8:20 AM To: accessd Subject: [AccessD] VBE Error Handler Hi group, i downloaded the VBE Error Handler dll from www.databaseadvisors written by John Colby. I really love this program....almost. It works great however I want to change the message that the user gets. Is that possible? Thnx in advance. Regards Sander Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Finance Tax Center - File online. File on time. -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From papparuff at comcast.net Tue Mar 23 08:10:33 2004 From: papparuff at comcast.net (papparuff at comcast.net) Date: Tue, 23 Mar 2004 14:10:33 +0000 Subject: [AccessD] VBE Error Handler Message-ID: <032320041410.24387.79f4@comcast.net> You can create your own error constant and then when the error occurs, display your own special error message. Something like this: Private Sub test() Dim i As Integer Dim j As Integer Dim a As Integer ' Error Number is Division by 0 not allowed Const DivBy0 = 11 On Error GoTo test_ERR i = 1 j = 0 a = i / j test_EXIT: Exit Sub test_ERR: If DivBy0 Then MsgBox "You cannot divide by 0" Else MsgBox Error$ End If Resume test_EXIT End Sub -- John V. Ruff ? The Eternal Optimist :-) ?Commit to the Lord whatever you do, and your plans will succeed.? Proverbs 16:3 > In short, it is not "programmable". > > The message the user gets is the native Access error plus the function / > module name. What did you have in mind? > > John W. Colby > www.ColbyConsulting.com > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of S D > Sent: Tuesday, March 23, 2004 8:20 AM > To: accessd > Subject: [AccessD] VBE Error Handler > > > Hi group, > > i downloaded the VBE Error Handler dll from www.databaseadvisors written by > John Colby. I really love this program....almost. > > It works great however I want to change the message that the user gets. Is > that possible? > > Thnx in advance. > > Regards > > Sander > > Do you Yahoo!? > Yahoo! Finance Tax Center - File online. File on time. > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From accessd667 at yahoo.com Tue Mar 23 08:34:05 2004 From: accessd667 at yahoo.com (S D) Date: Tue, 23 Mar 2004 06:34:05 -0800 (PST) Subject: [AccessD] VBE Error Handler In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <20040323143405.62650.qmail@web61107.mail.yahoo.com> We use a VB function to create a standard message. We use this in all (500+) applications. I don't won't to break the line of work. Problem is we enherited a HUGE Access app (250+ tables, 300+ forms, 7(!?!) modules) So we've got the following line in all our error handling: Call GenErr("Switchdatabase.Form_Startscherm", "Form_Load") TIA Sander PS1: according to the programmer of this beast: - 'normalization'? What's that, a snack? - a function is never used more then once - dim a, b, c as string creates 3 strings.... - dim blnError as String blnError = "0" blnError = "1" blnError = "incorrect" aaahhhhrg..... "John W. Colby" wrote: In short, it is not "programmable". The message the user gets is the native Access error plus the function / module name. What did you have in mind? John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of S D Sent: Tuesday, March 23, 2004 8:20 AM To: accessd Subject: [AccessD] VBE Error Handler Hi group, i downloaded the VBE Error Handler dll from www.databaseadvisors written by John Colby. I really love this program....almost. It works great however I want to change the message that the user gets. Is that possible? Thnx in advance. Regards Sander Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Finance Tax Center - File online. File on time. -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Finance Tax Center - File online. File on time. From accessd667 at yahoo.com Tue Mar 23 08:46:14 2004 From: accessd667 at yahoo.com (S D) Date: Tue, 23 Mar 2004 06:46:14 -0800 (PST) Subject: [AccessD] Web Pages in Access In-Reply-To: <26981847.1080045888094.JavaMail.www@wwinf3003> Message-ID: <20040323144614.2293.qmail@web61102.mail.yahoo.com> Paul, is it standard ASP that you want? I've had to deal with the same problem and that's why I started building my own pages for testing and such. I can send them to you off-line if you want. I'm not exactly sure what you did but if you somehow exporterd you're standard Access master-detail form to ASP...I don't think that that will work. ASP doesn't have 'sub-forms' Maybe Access-ASP has. In standard ASP you would build a table using HTML and fill it with a recordset. Then you would have to check how many records you would like to see....create nav buttons...aarhg the horror is getting worse and worse. If need the samples let me know. I believe I use a SQL-Server as data thingy...hmm have to look tonight. Regards, Sander paul.hartland at fsmail.net wrote: Tell you what, I'm just about to start getting into HTML, ASP etc (horrified at the thought, but it has to be done). So if anyone has sample code for a pretty secure logon page that will then direct the user to a menu page if the password is correct etc I would like to see the code, preferably with a simple explanation of how it works. I have found various little bits and pieces on the web but could never get them to work properly. Paul Hartland Message date : Mar 23 2004, 12:34 PM >From : chris at thecube.net To : accessd at databaseadvisors.com Copy to : Subject : Re: [AccessD] Web Pages in Access Dale, Looks like you need to start venturing into ASP, if you cade code using recordsets then ASP is not really that big a step. Let me know if you would like a kick start and/or sample ASP Cheers Chris ----- Original Message ----- From: Dale Kalsow To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Sent: Mon, 22 Mar 2004 12:51:40 -0800 (PST) Subject: [AccessD] Web Pages in Access Does Anyone have experiance with creating web pages through Acess. I have a form that currently works within access. It displays the fields of a table and then has a subform that displays (and allows modifications) all of the parts that go along with the master record. I can export the form to html but loose the subform and have not been able to figure out how to recrate the functionally of the subform. All help is appreciated! Thanks! Dale Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Finance Tax Center - File online. File on time. -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com [ (no filename) (0.2 Kb) ] Freeserve AnyTime - HALF PRICE for the first 3 months - Save ?7.50 a month www.freeserve.com/anytime -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Finance Tax Center - File online. File on time. From jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com Tue Mar 23 08:50:23 2004 From: jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com (John W. Colby) Date: Tue, 23 Mar 2004 09:50:23 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] VBE Error Handler In-Reply-To: <20040323143405.62650.qmail@web61107.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: LOL to the whole message!!! In particular the PS1: I feel for you, but with any luck it will generate prodigious revenue as you clean it up. The error handler wizard is in VB and is under the care of Seth Galitzer. This sounds like a very custom mod which you would probably have to make. John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of S D Sent: Tuesday, March 23, 2004 9:34 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] VBE Error Handler We use a VB function to create a standard message. We use this in all (500+) applications. I don't won't to break the line of work. Problem is we enherited a HUGE Access app (250+ tables, 300+ forms, 7(!?!) modules) So we've got the following line in all our error handling: Call GenErr("Switchdatabase.Form_Startscherm", "Form_Load") TIA Sander PS1: according to the programmer of this beast: - 'normalization'? What's that, a snack? - a function is never used more then once - dim a, b, c as string creates 3 strings.... - dim blnError as String blnError = "0" blnError = "1" blnError = "incorrect" aaahhhhrg..... "John W. Colby" wrote: In short, it is not "programmable". The message the user gets is the native Access error plus the function / module name. What did you have in mind? John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of S D Sent: Tuesday, March 23, 2004 8:20 AM To: accessd Subject: [AccessD] VBE Error Handler Hi group, i downloaded the VBE Error Handler dll from www.databaseadvisors written by John Colby. I really love this program....almost. It works great however I want to change the message that the user gets. Is that possible? Thnx in advance. Regards Sander Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Finance Tax Center - File online. File on time. -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Finance Tax Center - File online. File on time. -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From paul.hartland at fsmail.net Tue Mar 23 08:55:45 2004 From: paul.hartland at fsmail.net (paul.hartland at fsmail.net) Date: Tue, 23 Mar 2004 15:55:45 +0100 (CET) Subject: [AccessD] Web Pages in Access Message-ID: <23218488.1080053745940.JavaMail.www@wwinf3006> Sander, The original message was from Dale, I replied with my question of sample code for ASP logon etc which checks a username and password from an Access or SQL Server database. I?m still after any sample code with a brief explanation of how it all works for an ASP logon page. Paul Message date : Mar 23 2004, 02:48 PM >From : "S D" To : "Access Developers discussion and problem solving" Copy to : Subject : Re: Re: [AccessD] Web Pages in Access Paul, is it standard ASP that you want? I've had to deal with the same problem and that's why I started building my own pages for testing and such. I can send them to you off-line if you want. I'm not exactly sure what you did but if you somehow exporterd you're standard Access master-detail form to ASP...I don't think that that will work. ASP doesn't have 'sub-forms' Maybe Access-ASP has. In standard ASP you would build a table using HTML and fill it with a recordset. Then you would have to check how many records you would like to see....create nav buttons...aarhg the horror is getting worse and worse. If need the samples let me know. I believe I use a SQL-Server as data thingy...hmm have to look tonight. Regards, Sander paul.hartland at fsmail.net wrote: Tell you what, I'm just about to start getting into HTML, ASP etc (horrified at the thought, but it has to be done). So if anyone has sample code for a pretty secure logon page that will then direct the user to a menu page if the password is correct etc I would like to see the code, preferably with a simple explanation of how it works. I have found various little bits and pieces on the web but could never get them to work properly. Paul Hartland Message date : Mar 23 2004, 12:34 PM >From : chris at thecube.net To : accessd at databaseadvisors.com Copy to : Subject : Re: [AccessD] Web Pages in Access Dale, Looks like you need to start venturing into ASP, if you cade code using recordsets then ASP is not really that big a step. Let me know if you would like a kick start and/or sample ASP Cheers Chris ----- Original Message ----- From: Dale Kalsow To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Sent: Mon, 22 Mar 2004 12:51:40 -0800 (PST) Subject: [AccessD] Web Pages in Access Does Anyone have experiance with creating web pages through Acess. I have a form that currently works within access. It displays the fields of a table and then has a subform that displays (and allows modifications) all of the parts that go along with the master record. I can export the form to html but loose the subform and have not been able to figure out how to recrate the functionally of the subform. All help is appreciated! Thanks! Dale Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Finance Tax Center - File online. File on time. -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com [ (no filename) (0.2 Kb) ] Freeserve AnyTime - HALF PRICE for the first 3 months - Save ?7.50 a month www.freeserve.com/anytime -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Finance Tax Center - File online. File on time. -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com Freeserve AnyTime - HALF PRICE for the first 3 months - Save ?7.50 a month www.freeserve.com/anytime From lister at actuarial-files.com Tue Mar 23 09:28:14 2004 From: lister at actuarial-files.com (Ralf Lister) Date: Tue, 23 Mar 2004 11:28:14 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Web Pages in Access References: <26981847.1080045888094.JavaMail.www@wwinf3003> Message-ID: <003901c410eb$7a2ec160$e4976bce@ralf> Hello Paul, If you know German, here is a very good and secure pass-check (with a good explanation): 1. Log on to aspheute.com 2. Select "ASP-Grundlagen" from the Menue 3. Look for the article "Session Variablen - Verwendung und Stolpersteine" (published 5.5.2000) I have a very simple pass-check handy, but it's VERY simple. However, I send it to you if you want me to. Saludos desde Bolivia Ralf ----- Original Message ----- From: To: "Access Developers discussion and problem solving" Sent: Tuesday, March 23, 2004 8:44 AM Subject: Re: Re: [AccessD] Web Pages in Access Tell you what, I'm just about to start getting into HTML, ASP etc (horrified at the thought, but it has to be done). So if anyone has sample code for a pretty secure logon page that will then direct the user to a menu page if the password is correct etc I would like to see the code, preferably with a simple explanation of how it works. I have found various little bits and pieces on the web but could never get them to work properly. Paul Hartland Message date : Mar 23 2004, 12:34 PM >From : chris at thecube.net To : accessd at databaseadvisors.com Copy to : Subject : Re: [AccessD] Web Pages in Access Dale, Looks like you need to start venturing into ASP, if you cade code using recordsets then ASP is not really that big a step. Let me know if you would like a kick start and/or sample ASP Cheers Chris ----- Original Message ----- From: Dale Kalsow To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Sent: Mon, 22 Mar 2004 12:51:40 -0800 (PST) Subject: [AccessD] Web Pages in Access Does Anyone have experiance with creating web pages through Acess. I have a form that currently works within access. It displays the fields of a table and then has a subform that displays (and allows modifications) all of the parts that go along with the master record. I can export the form to html but loose the subform and have not been able to figure out how to recrate the functionally of the subform. All help is appreciated! Thanks! Dale Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Finance Tax Center - File online. File on time. -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com [ (no filename) (0.2 Kb) ] Freeserve AnyTime - HALF PRICE for the first 3 months - Save ?7.50 a month www.freeserve.com/anytime -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From dwaters at usinternet.com Tue Mar 23 10:41:09 2004 From: dwaters at usinternet.com (Dan Waters) Date: Tue, 23 Mar 2004 10:41:09 -0600 Subject: [AccessD] Synchronize with Palm or PocketPC In-Reply-To: <31129060.1080031531353.JavaMail.root@sniper2.marix.com> Message-ID: <000a01c410f5$a52eb4b0$de1811d8@DanWaters> Carlos, Now 3 ways to investigate! Thanks! Dan -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Carlos Alberto Alves Sent: Tuesday, March 23, 2004 2:39 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Synchronize with Palm or PocketPC On Fri, 19 Mar 2004 14:04:02 -0600, Dan Waters wrote: > Hello everyone, > > > > I have a client where a possibly good solution would be to enter > information > into a PDA and then synchronize it with an Access app once per day. > > > > Can anyone point me in a direction to learn more about this? Anyone have > any good/lousy experiences? > > > > Thanks! > > Dan Waters > Take a look at http://www.syware.com/ HTH, -- ****************************** * Carlos Alberto Alves * * Child Neurologist * * Systems Analyst/Programmer * * Rio de Janeiro, Brazil * * mailto:caa at highway.com.br * ****************************** -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From bchacc at san.rr.com Tue Mar 23 10:59:56 2004 From: bchacc at san.rr.com (Rocky Smolin - Beach Access Software) Date: Tue, 23 Mar 2004 08:59:56 -0800 Subject: [AccessD] Form Resizing Message-ID: <00bb01c410f8$4544b100$6601a8c0@HAL9002> Dear List: I have an app which was developed in A97 on a 640x480 screen. I used the adhScaleForm code from the A97 ADH to scale the forms on screens with higher resolutions. Worked okay with some problems. The app is now in A2K and to try to resolve some of the form resizing problems I'm trying to move to the FormResize code in the A2K ADH. I put the following code into the On_Open event of a test form: Set frmResize = New FormResize Set frmResize.Form = Me Call frmResize.SetDesignCoords(640, 480, 96, 96) frmResize.ScaleForm = True frmResize.IsMaximized = True frmResize.ScaleControls = scYes frmResize.ScaleFonts = True frmResize.ScaleColumns = True and I can see the form resize briefly, then it shrinks back to its unscaled appurtenance. Does anyone have any experience with this FormResize and know why the resizing is not 'sticking'? MTIA, is From rmoore at comtechpst.com Tue Mar 23 11:16:08 2004 From: rmoore at comtechpst.com (Ron Moore) Date: Tue, 23 Mar 2004 12:16:08 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] 'Heirarchal Recursion': Message-ID: <001101c410fa$891c53e0$6514a8c0@Comtech.Comtechpst.com> I've inherited a 15MB engineering _fe A2K DB with single level product structures for manufactured assemblies. I need to create an 'indentured' multi-level bill of material (BOM), presumably using recursion. I used to have an article from 'Access-VB-SQL' mag some time back called 'Heirarchal Recursion' (I think) but can't locate it now. Any ideas? Best Sources on the web? TIA, Ron Moore Sr. Database Administrator Comtech PST Corp. Melville, NY www.comtechpst.com From DWUTKA at marlow.com Tue Mar 23 11:29:28 2004 From: DWUTKA at marlow.com (DWUTKA at marlow.com) Date: Tue, 23 Mar 2004 11:29:28 -0600 Subject: [AccessD] Web Pages in Access Message-ID: <2F8793082E00D4119A1700B0D0216BF8022279A1@main2.marlow.com> pretty secure logon page? Just set the security on the webserver. Much quicker, and definitely more secure. Drew -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of paul.hartland at fsmail.net Sent: Tuesday, March 23, 2004 6:45 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: Re: [AccessD] Web Pages in Access Tell you what, I'm just about to start getting into HTML, ASP etc (horrified at the thought, but it has to be done). So if anyone has sample code for a pretty secure logon page that will then direct the user to a menu page if the password is correct etc I would like to see the code, preferably with a simple explanation of how it works. I have found various little bits and pieces on the web but could never get them to work properly. Paul Hartland Message date : Mar 23 2004, 12:34 PM >From : chris at thecube.net To : accessd at databaseadvisors.com Copy to : Subject : Re: [AccessD] Web Pages in Access Dale, Looks like you need to start venturing into ASP, if you cade code using recordsets then ASP is not really that big a step. Let me know if you would like a kick start and/or sample ASP Cheers Chris ----- Original Message ----- From: Dale Kalsow To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Sent: Mon, 22 Mar 2004 12:51:40 -0800 (PST) Subject: [AccessD] Web Pages in Access Does Anyone have experiance with creating web pages through Acess. I have a form that currently works within access. It displays the fields of a table and then has a subform that displays (and allows modifications) all of the parts that go along with the master record. I can export the form to html but loose the subform and have not been able to figure out how to recrate the functionally of the subform. All help is appreciated! Thanks! Dale Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Finance Tax Center - File online. File on time. -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com [ (no filename) (0.2 Kb) ] Freeserve AnyTime - HALF PRICE for the first 3 months - Save ?7.50 a month www.freeserve.com/anytime -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From bchacc at san.rr.com Tue Mar 23 11:31:04 2004 From: bchacc at san.rr.com (Rocky Smolin - Beach Access Software) Date: Tue, 23 Mar 2004 09:31:04 -0800 Subject: [AccessD] 'Heirarchal Recursion': References: <001101c410fa$891c53e0$6514a8c0@Comtech.Comtechpst.com> Message-ID: <00da01c410fc$9e8b0350$6601a8c0@HAL9002> Ron: E-Z-MRP's bill of materials processor handles multi-level bills. Would this www.e-z-mrp.com be an option? I can give you system to evaluate. Also convert the existing data so you've got something familiar to look at. Regards, Rocky Smolin Beach Access Software http://www.e-z-mrp.com ----- Original Message ----- From: "Ron Moore" To: "'Access Developers discussion and problem solving'" Sent: Tuesday, March 23, 2004 9:16 AM Subject: [AccessD] 'Heirarchal Recursion': > I've inherited a 15MB engineering _fe A2K DB with single level product > structures for manufactured assemblies. I need to create an > 'indentured' multi-level bill of material (BOM), presumably using > recursion. I used to have an article from 'Access-VB-SQL' mag some time > back called 'Heirarchal Recursion' (I think) but can't locate it now. > > Any ideas? Best Sources on the web? > TIA, > Ron Moore > Sr. Database Administrator > Comtech PST Corp. > Melville, NY > www.comtechpst.com > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > From gustav at cactus.dk Tue Mar 23 11:36:10 2004 From: gustav at cactus.dk (Gustav Brock) Date: Tue, 23 Mar 2004 18:36:10 +0100 Subject: [AccessD] Hierachical Recursion (was: 'Heirarchal Recursion') In-Reply-To: <001101c410fa$891c53e0$6514a8c0@Comtech.Comtechpst.com> References: <001101c410fa$891c53e0$6514a8c0@Comtech.Comtechpst.com> Message-ID: <11237423482.20040323183610@cactus.dk> Hi Ron Look up "Tree shaped reports" in the archives from Feb. 2002 for a method running at extreme speed ... /gustav > I've inherited a 15MB engineering _fe A2K DB with single level product > structures for manufactured assemblies. I need to create an > 'indentured' multi-level bill of material (BOM), presumably using > recursion. I used to have an article from 'Access-VB-SQL' mag some time > back called 'Heirarchal Recursion' (I think) but can't locate it now. > Any ideas? Best Sources on the web? > TIA, > Ron Moore > Sr. Database Administrator > Comtech PST Corp. > Melville, NY > www.comtechpst.com From rmoore at comtechpst.com Tue Mar 23 11:42:38 2004 From: rmoore at comtechpst.com (Ron Moore) Date: Tue, 23 Mar 2004 12:42:38 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] 'Heirarchal Recursion': In-Reply-To: <00da01c410fc$9e8b0350$6601a8c0@HAL9002> Message-ID: <001601c410fe$3bfe0fa0$6514a8c0@Comtech.Comtechpst.com> Rocky, I'm aware of your fine looking product (congrats on your recent launch). MRP is not in the near future. Inventories are currently in PeachTree which is DDE only, not ODBC. I simply need multi-level bills reporting capability within two days! Thanks, Ron -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Rocky Smolin - Beach Access Software Sent: Tuesday, March 23, 2004 12:31 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] 'Heirarchal Recursion': Ron: E-Z-MRP's bill of materials processor handles multi-level bills. Would this www.e-z-mrp.com be an option? I can give you system to evaluate. Also convert the existing data so you've got something familiar to look at. Regards, Rocky Smolin Beach Access Software http://www.e-z-mrp.com ----- Original Message ----- From: "Ron Moore" To: "'Access Developers discussion and problem solving'" Sent: Tuesday, March 23, 2004 9:16 AM Subject: [AccessD] 'Heirarchal Recursion': > I've inherited a 15MB engineering _fe A2K DB with single level product > structures for manufactured assemblies. I need to create an > 'indentured' multi-level bill of material (BOM), presumably using > recursion. I used to have an article from 'Access-VB-SQL' mag some > time back called 'Heirarchal Recursion' (I think) but can't locate it > now. > > Any ideas? Best Sources on the web? > TIA, > Ron Moore > Sr. Database Administrator > Comtech PST Corp. > Melville, NY > www.comtechpst.com > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From rmoore at comtechpst.com Tue Mar 23 11:49:59 2004 From: rmoore at comtechpst.com (Ron Moore) Date: Tue, 23 Mar 2004 12:49:59 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Hierachical Recursion (was: 'Heirarchal Recursion') In-Reply-To: <11237423482.20040323183610@cactus.dk> Message-ID: <001701c410ff$42b99520$6514a8c0@Comtech.Comtechpst.com> Thanks Gustav, and to think I even looked up 'Heirarchal' in the dictionary. :-) Do I get half credit for it being a word? And, is it just me, or is the http://www.databaseadvisors.com site down at the moment? Thanks again, Ron -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Gustav Brock Sent: Tuesday, March 23, 2004 12:36 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Hierachical Recursion (was: 'Heirarchal Recursion') Hi Ron Look up "Tree shaped reports" in the archives from Feb. 2002 for a method running at extreme speed ... /gustav > I've inherited a 15MB engineering _fe A2K DB with single level product > structures for manufactured assemblies. I need to create an > 'indentured' multi-level bill of material (BOM), presumably using > recursion. I used to have an article from 'Access-VB-SQL' mag some > time back called 'Heirarchal Recursion' (I think) but can't locate it > now. > Any ideas? Best Sources on the web? > TIA, > Ron Moore > Sr. Database Administrator > Comtech PST Corp. > Melville, NY > www.comtechpst.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From bchacc at san.rr.com Tue Mar 23 11:58:13 2004 From: bchacc at san.rr.com (Rocky Smolin - Beach Access Software) Date: Tue, 23 Mar 2004 09:58:13 -0800 Subject: [AccessD] 'Heirarchal Recursion': References: <001601c410fe$3bfe0fa0$6514a8c0@Comtech.Comtechpst.com> Message-ID: <00f201c41100$69642720$6601a8c0@HAL9002> Ron: Well, you don't have to use all of the system. The Bill of Materials runs by itself with no other requirements. I've got a user in Florida running about 15 seats - using just the BOM part of the system. Have been for about 5 years. (Could give you his name and number for a reference if you want.). They've got an ERP system for all their other manufacturing. So you could definitely be up and running by Thursday. BOM reporting in E-Z-MRP include single level and indented, costed and uncosted, summary bills, and where-used. Manufacturer's cross references and component reference data supported as well as effective and obsolete dates on all the components and phantom or blow-through assemblies. If there's interest we should probably move this discussion off-line. Contact me at bchacc at san.rr.com. Best, Rocky Smolin Beach Access Software http://www.e-z-mrp.com ----- Original Message ----- From: "Ron Moore" To: "'Access Developers discussion and problem solving'" Sent: Tuesday, March 23, 2004 9:42 AM Subject: RE: [AccessD] 'Heirarchal Recursion': > Rocky, I'm aware of your fine looking product (congrats on your recent > launch). MRP is not in the near future. Inventories are currently in > PeachTree which is DDE only, not ODBC. I simply need multi-level bills > reporting capability within two days! > > Thanks, > Ron > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Rocky Smolin > - Beach Access Software > Sent: Tuesday, March 23, 2004 12:31 PM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: Re: [AccessD] 'Heirarchal Recursion': > > > Ron: > > E-Z-MRP's bill of materials processor handles multi-level bills. Would > this www.e-z-mrp.com be an option? I can give you system to evaluate. > Also convert the existing data so you've got something familiar to look > at. > > Regards, > > > > Rocky Smolin > Beach Access Software > http://www.e-z-mrp.com > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Ron Moore" > To: "'Access Developers discussion and problem solving'" > > Sent: Tuesday, March 23, 2004 9:16 AM > Subject: [AccessD] 'Heirarchal Recursion': > > > > I've inherited a 15MB engineering _fe A2K DB with single level product > > > structures for manufactured assemblies. I need to create an > > 'indentured' multi-level bill of material (BOM), presumably using > > recursion. I used to have an article from 'Access-VB-SQL' mag some > > time back called 'Heirarchal Recursion' (I think) but can't locate it > > now. > > > > Any ideas? Best Sources on the web? > > TIA, > > Ron Moore > > Sr. Database Administrator > > Comtech PST Corp. > > Melville, NY > > www.comtechpst.com > > -- > > _______________________________________________ > > AccessD mailing list > > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > From artful at rogers.com Tue Mar 23 15:05:17 2004 From: artful at rogers.com (Arthur Fuller) Date: Tue, 23 Mar 2004 13:05:17 -0800 Subject: [AccessD] Dir Size Routine Message-ID: <000001c4111a$8d2fabb0$6501a8c0@rock> Anybody got a routine to walk the dir tree from a spefied location and report the accumulated size of all files in the given dir (+subdir), at each level? I.e. ? DirSize( "d:\docs" ) d:\docs 1gb d:\docs\a .3gb d:\docs\b .5gb d:\docs\b\1 .2gb TIA, Arthur From rbgajewski at adelphia.net Tue Mar 23 12:17:42 2004 From: rbgajewski at adelphia.net (Bob Gajewski) Date: Tue, 23 Mar 2004 13:17:42 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Dir Size Routine In-Reply-To: <000001c4111a$8d2fabb0$6501a8c0@rock> Message-ID: Arthur Do you need to run this through Access, or would a stand-alone program work? Bob Gajewski -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Arthur Fuller Sent: Tuesday, March 23, 2004 16:05 To: AccessD Subject: [AccessD] Dir Size Routine Anybody got a routine to walk the dir tree from a spefied location and report the accumulated size of all files in the given dir (+subdir), at each level? I.e. ? DirSize( "d:\docs" ) d:\docs 1gb d:\docs\a .3gb d:\docs\b .5gb d:\docs\b\1 .2gb TIA, Arthur -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From John.Clark at niagaracounty.com Tue Mar 23 12:54:54 2004 From: John.Clark at niagaracounty.com (John Clark) Date: Tue, 23 Mar 2004 13:54:54 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Not enough space on disk. Message-ID: I suspected you might have Novell. I help to administer our Novell network, along with IP telephony and Access programming, and I get asked to increase a user's space restrictions quite often--especially when one of our techs go to the PC and remain logged in as the user. Take care! John W Clark >>> ggonzalez at cccis.com 3/22/2004 3:05:04 PM >>> Yes, Novel is the NOS. It seems that is the problem. Even though I was trying to access local databases the security file that I use is on the network. when I changed the security file locally everything worked fine, I then requested more space on the network and all worked there also. Thanks to everyone for their help. "John Clark" .com> cc: Sent by: Subject: Re: [AccessD] Not enough space on disk. accessd-bounces at databasea dvisors.com 03/22/2004 12:35 PM Please respond to Access Developers discussion and problem solving Are you running on a network at all? If so, what NOS? And, if so, are you logged in as yourself, on the other PCs? >>> ggonzalez at cccis.com 3/22/2004 1:27:01 PM >>> I have tried rebooting and several of the options in the Microsoft knowledge base to no avail. Thanks |---------+------------------------------------> | | Francisco H Tapia | | | | | | Sent by: | | | accessd-bounces at databasea| | | dvisors.com | | | | | | | | | 03/22/2004 12:22 PM | | | Please respond to Access | | | Developers discussion and| | | problem solving | |---------+------------------------------------> >---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------| | | | To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving | | cc: | | Subject: Re: [AccessD] Not enough space on disk. | >---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------| try a reboot like suggested by Gary Kjos, additonally what OS is this running on? win95/98/ME/nt/2k/xp? ggonzalez at cccis.com wrote: > > >I have 3 Gig and 256 of ram > > > > > >How much hdd space is available on your C: for the computer that gets >this error?, how much ram does it have? > > >ggonzalez at cccis.com wrote: > > > >>I am gettin getting this error when I try to open a database on my >>computer. I have plenty od disk space available though. When I go to >>another computer and access the same database I have no problem. >> >>Does anybody have any sugestions why this is happening. >> >>Thanks, Gumaro >> >> >> >> >> > > > > <>-- -Francisco -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From ssharkins at bellsouth.net Tue Mar 23 13:20:45 2004 From: ssharkins at bellsouth.net (Susan Harkins) Date: Tue, 23 Mar 2004 14:20:45 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] OT: SQL Server Reporting Services Message-ID: <20040323192042.ODJK1709.imf20aec.mail.bellsouth.net@SUSANONE> How compatiable is SQL Server Reporting Services with Access -- can you save an Access report to this format? Susan H. From lists at theopg.com Tue Mar 23 13:31:41 2004 From: lists at theopg.com (MarkH) Date: Tue, 23 Mar 2004 19:31:41 -0000 Subject: [AccessD] [OT] Slightly... Printing problems with Office XP In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <001301c4110d$78325cb0$270b6bd5@netboxxp> Hello all... The machines where I work have recently been upgraded to XP (office and Windows) and we are getting a couple of weird problems. First... In some Word documents, that I create from code in Access (by merging data with tamplates using ADO), the boarder of 'some' tables dissappears when the user first saves the document. The document is purely formatted data, there is no code or macros etc. in the final .doc file. This was not an issue with Office 97... Secondly, when printing Visio diagrams that are embedded in Word documents, the text on the diagram does not get printed unless it is formatted to another colour (light grey comes out as black and so does white???). We have a number of different printers and they all get the same results... I know this is all a bit vague, but if anyone has any ideas I'd very much like to hear them. Chears Mark From gustav at cactus.dk Tue Mar 23 13:34:07 2004 From: gustav at cactus.dk (Gustav Brock) Date: Tue, 23 Mar 2004 20:34:07 +0100 Subject: [AccessD] OT: SQL Server Reporting Services In-Reply-To: <20040323192042.ODJK1709.imf20aec.mail.bellsouth.net@SUSANONE> References: <20040323192042.ODJK1709.imf20aec.mail.bellsouth.net@SUSANONE> Message-ID: <7044500388.20040323203407@cactus.dk> Hi Susan I have no idea. But Mike Gunderloy recently wrote he had been playing around with this ... /gustav > How compatiable is SQL Server Reporting Services with Access -- can you save > an Access report to this format? > Susan H. From ssharkins at bellsouth.net Tue Mar 23 13:49:53 2004 From: ssharkins at bellsouth.net (Susan Harkins) Date: Tue, 23 Mar 2004 14:49:53 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] OT: SQL Server Reporting Services In-Reply-To: <7044500388.20040323203407@cactus.dk> Message-ID: <20040323194950.ITRY1715.imf16aec.mail.bellsouth.net@SUSANONE> Yeah, already asked, already replied -- he had just what I needed. ;) Susan H. Hi Susan I have no idea. But Mike Gunderloy recently wrote he had been playing around with this ... /gustav From mwp.reid at qub.ac.uk Tue Mar 23 13:45:10 2004 From: mwp.reid at qub.ac.uk (Martin Reid) Date: Tue, 23 Mar 2004 19:45:10 -0000 Subject: [AccessD] OT: SQL Server Reporting Services References: <20040323192042.ODJK1709.imf20aec.mail.bellsouth.net@SUSANONE> Message-ID: <000201c41110$bfbf49f0$1b02a8c0@MARTINREID> Just looking it up I see you can have a custom data source and it works with OLEDB so why not. I was on the beta but never tried it with Access. But I dont think you would be able to save an access report to it. Its not a format but a group of technologies. Sorry if this is late but our email is down. still a bit flaky as we had a DOS attack for the last two days. Martin ----- Original Message ----- From: "Susan Harkins" To: "'Access Developers discussion and problem solving'" Sent: Tuesday, March 23, 2004 7:20 PM Subject: [AccessD] OT: SQL Server Reporting Services > How compatiable is SQL Server Reporting Services with Access -- can you save > an Access report to this format? > > Susan H. > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > From mwp.reid at qub.ac.uk Tue Mar 23 13:47:56 2004 From: mwp.reid at qub.ac.uk (Martin Reid) Date: Tue, 23 Mar 2004 19:47:56 -0000 Subject: [AccessD] OT: SQL Server Reporting Services References: <20040323192042.ODJK1709.imf20aec.mail.bellsouth.net@SUSANONE> Message-ID: <000301c41110$c0e6da00$1b02a8c0@MARTINREID> Just out of interest I will give it a go. WIll try either this evenign or tomorrow. Have some work to do first. Martin ----- Original Message ----- From: "Susan Harkins" To: "'Access Developers discussion and problem solving'" Sent: Tuesday, March 23, 2004 7:20 PM Subject: [AccessD] OT: SQL Server Reporting Services > How compatiable is SQL Server Reporting Services with Access -- can you save > an Access report to this format? > > Susan H. > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > From mwp.reid at qub.ac.uk Tue Mar 23 14:05:01 2004 From: mwp.reid at qub.ac.uk (Martin Reid) Date: Tue, 23 Mar 2004 20:05:01 -0000 Subject: [AccessD] OT: SQL Server Reporting Services References: <20040323194950.ITRY1715.imf16aec.mail.bellsouth.net@SUSANONE> Message-ID: <004d01c41112$21e44cb0$1b02a8c0@MARTINREID> Well save me some time. What did he say?? Martin ----- Original Message ----- From: "Susan Harkins" To: "'Access Developers discussion and problem solving'" Sent: Tuesday, March 23, 2004 7:49 PM Subject: RE: [AccessD] OT: SQL Server Reporting Services > Yeah, already asked, already replied -- he had just what I needed. ;) > > Susan H. > > Hi Susan > > I have no idea. > But Mike Gunderloy recently wrote he had been playing around with this ... > > /gustav > > > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > From jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com Tue Mar 23 14:07:44 2004 From: jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com (John W. Colby) Date: Tue, 23 Mar 2004 15:07:44 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] determining the datatype of a bound control Message-ID: I currently determine the data type of the data that a control is displaying by the following code: Dim strCtlSrc As String Dim rst As DAO.Recordset Dim intType As Integer strCtlSrc = txtDOB.ControlSource Set rst = Me.RecordsetClone intType = rst.Fields(strCtlSrc).Type Is there a similar method of getting at this from ADO? John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com From Bryan_Carbonnell at cbc.ca Tue Mar 23 14:17:28 2004 From: Bryan_Carbonnell at cbc.ca (Bryan Carbonnell) Date: Tue, 23 Mar 2004 15:17:28 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Bind Data Entry Form to Table Message-ID: Is there a downside to binding a Data Entry Only Form to a table instead of a query? I have a form (subform of an unbound form actually) that will be used strictly for Data Entry and I was thinking of binding it to the table directly instead of through a query. The only downside that I can think of is that I won't be able to sort the recordsource, but since its DE only, that doesn't matter. Is there anyreason I shouldn't do it like this? Bryan Carbonnell bryan_carbonnell at cbc.ca From martyconnelly at shaw.ca Tue Mar 23 14:48:03 2004 From: martyconnelly at shaw.ca (MartyConnelly) Date: Tue, 23 Mar 2004 12:48:03 -0800 Subject: [AccessD] Dir Size Routine References: <000001c4111a$8d2fabb0$6501a8c0@rock> Message-ID: <4060A283.1010304@shaw.ca> I use this free utility I-Disk No docs but intuiative .I believe it gives a printed report. http://downloads-zdnet.com.com/3000-2248-10188280.html?tag=lst-0-8 Arthur Fuller wrote: >Anybody got a routine to walk the dir tree from a spefied location and >report the accumulated size of all files in the given dir (+subdir), at >each level? > >I.e. > >? DirSize( "d:\docs" ) > >d:\docs 1gb >d:\docs\a .3gb >d:\docs\b .5gb >d:\docs\b\1 .2gb > >TIA, >Arthur > > > -- Marty Connelly Victoria, B.C. Canada From jeffrey.demulling at usbank.com Tue Mar 23 14:51:38 2004 From: jeffrey.demulling at usbank.com (jeffrey.demulling at usbank.com) Date: Tue, 23 Mar 2004 14:51:38 -0600 Subject: [AccessD] Create a Lotus Notes HotSpot via VBA Code Message-ID: Does anyone know how to create a Lotus Notes HotSpot via VBA? I am putting together a routine that creates messages and sends them via email. However I need to include hotspots on some of them and on other no. TIA Jeff From martyconnelly at shaw.ca Tue Mar 23 14:54:26 2004 From: martyconnelly at shaw.ca (MartyConnelly) Date: Tue, 23 Mar 2004 12:54:26 -0800 Subject: [AccessD] OT: SQL Server Reporting Services References: <20040323192042.ODJK1709.imf20aec.mail.bellsouth.net@SUSANONE> Message-ID: <4060A402.1030900@shaw.ca> How to import reports from Microsoft Access to Reporting Services http://support.microsoft.com/?kbid=834306 Need at least Access 2002 and some features not supported. Susan Harkins wrote: >How compatiable is SQL Server Reporting Services with Access -- can you save >an Access report to this format? > >Susan H. > > -- Marty Connelly Victoria, B.C. Canada From ssharkins at bellsouth.net Tue Mar 23 15:36:27 2004 From: ssharkins at bellsouth.net (Susan Harkins) Date: Tue, 23 Mar 2004 16:36:27 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] OT: SQL Server Reporting Services In-Reply-To: <004d01c41112$21e44cb0$1b02a8c0@MARTINREID> Message-ID: <20040323213624.OSVA17649.imf25aec.mail.bellsouth.net@SUSANONE> You need the full SQL Server license and you have to import all the Access reports, you can't just import one at a time as needed -- so if you can live with those two conditions, it's OK, but for what I'm doing, I don't see any reason to venture into it beyond learning why an Access user shouldn't bother with it. :) Thanks for looking. Susan H. Well save me some time. What did he say?? From jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com Tue Mar 23 15:41:12 2004 From: jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com (John W. Colby) Date: Tue, 23 Mar 2004 16:41:12 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Using a framework with unbound forms Message-ID: Someone was asking the other day whether the framework could be used with an unbound form. The answer of course is yes, but the fact that a form is bound allows us to do a ton of things at the framework level that might not be possible (or easy) using an unbound form. For example the lecture I am working on now demonstrates using the framework to automatically apply date formatting to a text box control using Sysvars to turn on/off using the Framework Specified format and another SysVar to specify the format itself. In order to accomplish this, I get the recordset clone, then get the datatype of the field the control is bound to. Using this I can know when a control is displaying a date, and therefore that I need to use Sysvars to decide whether to apply a format / mask and what the format / mask should be. BTW I can do the same thing for currency, floating point numbers and anything else where you would use a format / mask for the data entry. Some things such as a zip code or a phone number would require "manual" setup anyway since there is no such datatype, it is all text. If a form is unbound, I can certainly do the same thing, however we will need a method for the control class to TELL the control that it is going to be displaying a date value. I would then have to call this setup method in the form's Open event for any control that will display a date (to set the format string) or allow the user to enter a date (to set the mask if any). Personally I hate data entry date masks but that is another story. If any of the unholy unbounders out there are watching this discussion and want to work with me to build unbound usability into the framework please contact me offline. I will even include such code in these lectures. Anyway, look for the next lecture where I demo setting date masks / formats using the SysVars. John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com From mwp.reid at qub.ac.uk Tue Mar 23 15:47:30 2004 From: mwp.reid at qub.ac.uk (Martin Reid) Date: Tue, 23 Mar 2004 21:47:30 -0000 Subject: [AccessD] OT: SQL Server Reporting Services References: <20040323213624.OSVA17649.imf25aec.mail.bellsouth.net@SUSANONE> Message-ID: <000901c41120$72996e20$1b02a8c0@MARTINREID> You also need Visual Studio 2003 .NET. Lot of software for an Access consultant to go out and buy for this. We are using it in work for a small number of projects as we begin to move away from Ingres towards a large SQL Server develoenvironment. Martin ----- Original Message ----- From: "Susan Harkins" To: "'Access Developers discussion and problem solving'" Sent: Tuesday, March 23, 2004 9:36 PM Subject: RE: [AccessD] OT: SQL Server Reporting Services > You need the full SQL Server license and you have to import all the Access > reports, you can't just import one at a time as needed -- so if you can live > with those two conditions, it's OK, but for what I'm doing, I don't see any > reason to venture into it beyond learning why an Access user shouldn't > bother with it. :) > > Thanks for looking. > > Susan H. > > Well save me some time. What did he say?? > > > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > From mwp.reid at qub.ac.uk Tue Mar 23 15:58:02 2004 From: mwp.reid at qub.ac.uk (Martin Reid) Date: Tue, 23 Mar 2004 21:58:02 -0000 Subject: [AccessD] OT: Migration to SQL Server References: <20040323213624.OSVA17649.imf25aec.mail.bellsouth.net@SUSANONE> Message-ID: <005101c41121$eaed9c10$1b02a8c0@MARTINREID> Anyone done any work migrating SEVERAL Access dbs to a single instance of SQL Server?? Particulary interested in any problems this caused etc etc Maybe a pointer to things to come. I have been asked to look at several areas around this subject including building .NET Front Ends to migrated dbs. Martin From Mark.Mitsules at ngc.com Tue Mar 23 15:37:28 2004 From: Mark.Mitsules at ngc.com (Mitsules, Mark S. (Newport News)) Date: Tue, 23 Mar 2004 16:37:28 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Dir Size Routine Message-ID: Thank you Marty...I can use this. Supports network drives as well:) Mark -----Original Message----- From: MartyConnelly [mailto:martyconnelly at shaw.ca] Sent: Tuesday, March 23, 2004 3:48 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Dir Size Routine I use this free utility I-Disk No docs but intuiative .I believe it gives a printed report. http://downloads-zdnet.com.com/3000-2248-10188280.html?tag=lst-0-8 Arthur Fuller wrote: >Anybody got a routine to walk the dir tree from a spefied location and >report the accumulated size of all files in the given dir (+subdir), at >each level? > >I.e. > >? DirSize( "d:\docs" ) > >d:\docs 1gb >d:\docs\a .3gb >d:\docs\b .5gb >d:\docs\b\1 .2gb > >TIA, >Arthur > > > -- Marty Connelly Victoria, B.C. Canada -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From kathryn at bassett.net Tue Mar 23 17:06:40 2004 From: kathryn at bassett.net (Kathryn Bassett) Date: Tue, 23 Mar 2004 15:06:40 -0800 Subject: [AccessD] Creating Web Pages from Access In-Reply-To: <4060AF9B.24485.3431F90@localhost> Message-ID: Cool!!! I never checked on the export and this will help me with results for the AC100 race I do each year. I may have questions after I experiment. -- Kathryn Rhinehart Bassett (Pasadena CA) "Genealogy is my bag" "GH is my soap" kathryn at bassett.net http://bassett.net > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Stuart > McLachlan > Sent: 23 Mar 2004 3:44:AM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: Re: [AccessD] Creating Web Pages from Access > > > On 23 Mar 2004 at 3:29, Dale Kalsow wrote: > > > > > Does anyone create web pages from within access? I currently have an > > access form that contains all the master information for a return. I > > also have a subform on the master form that contains multiple records > > (the part numbers of the return). When I export the form to a web > > page the main part is ok but I look the subform. Does anyone know how > > to create the subform's functionality on a web page? > > > > One way is to create a report which contains the information on the > form and subform and export that to HTML. (Note that it will be > static - the page will be as long as need to dispaly all of the part > numbers). > > > > > -- > Lexacorp Ltd > http://www.lexacorp.com.pg > Information Technology Consultancy, Software Development,System > Support. > > > > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From stuart at lexacorp.com.pg Tue Mar 23 18:11:01 2004 From: stuart at lexacorp.com.pg (Stuart McLachlan) Date: Wed, 24 Mar 2004 10:11:01 +1000 Subject: [AccessD] Creating Web Pages from Access In-Reply-To: References: <4060AF9B.24485.3431F90@localhost> Message-ID: <40615EB5.4254.3A4CBE@localhost> On 23 Mar 2004 at 15:06, Kathryn Bassett wrote: > Cool!!! I never checked on the export and this will help me with > results for the AC100 race I do each year. I may have questions after > I experiment. > > -- Exporting a report to HTML does have problems with column alignement. What it does is create a single row table for each row of the report and tries to determine the spacing based on the contents of the row. As a result you get very bloated HTML and a series of tables whose columns frequently don't line up. It's often easier to "roll your own" export routine. As an example, take a look at the HTML behind http://www.pngec.gov.pg/resultsNat2002/Report3.html which was created by Exporting a Report to HTML as opposed to http://www.pngec.gov.pg/byelectabau.html created by writing the HTML out to a file one record at a time in code I can send you a copy of the code used for the second one if you are interested. -- Stuart McLachlan Lexacorp Ltd Application Development, IT Consultancy http://www.lexacorp.com.pg From jmoss111 at bellsouth.net Tue Mar 23 20:38:27 2004 From: jmoss111 at bellsouth.net (JMoss) Date: Tue, 23 Mar 2004 18:38:27 -0800 Subject: [AccessD] Creating Web Pages from Access In-Reply-To: <20040323112935.36604.qmail@web9804.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: I use CodeCharge for Access and MSDE. They have a 20 day free evaluation of any of their products at www.codecharge.com . Its reasonably priced at $149 for their basic product and the learning curve isn't too steep. It does ASP, ASP.net with C# and VB.NET code behind, PHP, PERL, JSP, and Cold Fusion. Included are several good sample sites. You might want to check out the free Web Matrix tool by Microsoft at www.asp.net . There are also several sample starter kits including web based Reporting, Time Tracker, etc. Both of these tools do master/detail pages and a good deal more. -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Dale Kalsow Sent: Tuesday, March 23, 2004 3:30 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: [AccessD] Creating Web Pages from Access Good Morning, Does anyone create web pages from within access? I currently have an access form that contains all the master information for a return. I also have a subform on the master form that contains multiple records (the part numbers of the return). When I export the form to a web page the main part is ok but I look the subform. Does anyone know how to create the subform's functionality on a web page? Thanks for any and all help! Dale Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Finance Tax Center - File online. File on time. -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From d.dick at uws.edu.au Tue Mar 23 20:55:32 2004 From: d.dick at uws.edu.au (Darren DICK) Date: Wed, 24 Mar 2004 13:55:32 +1100 Subject: [AccessD] A2K: Calculate Percentages Message-ID: <011401c4114b$7a8c2200$48619a89@DDICK> Hello all Having a brain fade here Need to work out the Dollar amount of a percentage of a grand total I have a combo that has values incrementing by 5 from 5 to 100 representing percentages EG 5,10,15,20 etc If I select say...20 from that combo, that means I want to see 20 percent of a total (say...$250) on a form eg So 20 percent of $250 is $50. But what is the syntax I need to do this? EG Me.txtGrandTotal =$250.00. Me.cboPercentages = 20 So me.txtCalculatedPercentageOfTotal.ControlSource = What, in order to show $50.00 ???? Brain dead over here Many thanks in advance Darren From stuart at lexacorp.com.pg Tue Mar 23 21:00:51 2004 From: stuart at lexacorp.com.pg (Stuart McLachlan) Date: Wed, 24 Mar 2004 13:00:51 +1000 Subject: [AccessD] A2K: Calculate Percentages In-Reply-To: <011401c4114b$7a8c2200$48619a89@DDICK> Message-ID: <40618683.17946.12A309B@localhost> On 24 Mar 2004 at 13:55, Darren DICK wrote: > Hello all > Having a brain fade here > Need to work out the Dollar amount of a percentage of a grand total > > I have a combo that has values incrementing by 5 from 5 to 100 representing percentages EG 5,10,15,20 etc > If I select say...20 from that combo, that means I want to see 20 percent of a total (say...$250) > on a form eg > So 20 percent of $250 is $50. But what is the syntax I need to do this? > EG Me.txtGrandTotal =$250.00. Me.cboPercentages = 20 So > me.txtCalculatedPercentageOfTotal.ControlSource = What, in order to show $50.00 ???? > Me.txtGrandTotal * Me.cbiPercentage / 100 (Percentage mean "out of a hundred" - so just dividing by 100 gives you 1%) -- Lexacorp Ltd http://www.lexacorp.com.pg Information Technology Consultancy, Software Development,System Support. From d.dick at uws.edu.au Tue Mar 23 21:15:30 2004 From: d.dick at uws.edu.au (Darren DICK) Date: Wed, 24 Mar 2004 14:15:30 +1100 Subject: [AccessD] A2K: Calculate Percentages References: <40618683.17946.12A309B@localhost> Message-ID: <014b01c4114e$430663b0$48619a89@DDICK> Stuart you da man My maths (and maths abilities) are just crap Thank you so much (again) Darren ----- Original Message ----- From: "Stuart McLachlan" To: "Access Developers discussion and problemsolving" Sent: Wednesday, March 24, 2004 2:00 PM Subject: Re: [AccessD] A2K: Calculate Percentages > On 24 Mar 2004 at 13:55, Darren DICK wrote: > > > Hello all > > Having a brain fade here > > Need to work out the Dollar amount of a percentage of a grand total > > > > I have a combo that has values incrementing by 5 from 5 to 100 representing percentages EG 5,10,15,20 etc > > If I select say...20 from that combo, that means I want to see 20 percent of a total (say...$250) > > on a form eg > > So 20 percent of $250 is $50. But what is the syntax I need to do this? > > EG Me.txtGrandTotal =$250.00. Me.cboPercentages = 20 So > > me.txtCalculatedPercentageOfTotal.ControlSource = What, in order to show $50.00 ???? > > > > Me.txtGrandTotal * Me.cbiPercentage / 100 > > (Percentage mean "out of a hundred" - so just dividing by 100 gives > you 1%) > > > > -- > Lexacorp Ltd > http://www.lexacorp.com.pg > Information Technology Consultancy, Software Development,System Support. > > > > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From accessd at shaw.ca Tue Mar 23 21:37:53 2004 From: accessd at shaw.ca (Jim Lawrence (AccessD)) Date: Tue, 23 Mar 2004 19:37:53 -0800 Subject: [AccessD] OT: SQL Server Reporting Services In-Reply-To: <000901c41120$72996e20$1b02a8c0@MARTINREID> Message-ID: Hi Martin: If you have an older copy of VB6, I believe that a free VisualBasic.net resource kit, from M$, will allow you to upgrade. Whether all the required features are there I do not know but a quick look at the docs suggest a full implementation. HTH Jim -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Martin Reid Sent: Tuesday, March 23, 2004 1:48 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] OT: SQL Server Reporting Services You also need Visual Studio 2003 .NET. Lot of software for an Access consultant to go out and buy for this. We are using it in work for a small number of projects as we begin to move away from Ingres towards a large SQL Server develoenvironment. Martin ----- Original Message ----- From: "Susan Harkins" To: "'Access Developers discussion and problem solving'" Sent: Tuesday, March 23, 2004 9:36 PM Subject: RE: [AccessD] OT: SQL Server Reporting Services > You need the full SQL Server license and you have to import all the Access > reports, you can't just import one at a time as needed -- so if you can live > with those two conditions, it's OK, but for what I'm doing, I don't see any > reason to venture into it beyond learning why an Access user shouldn't > bother with it. :) > > Thanks for looking. > > Susan H. > > Well save me some time. What did he say?? > > > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From stuart at lexacorp.com.pg Tue Mar 23 21:43:36 2004 From: stuart at lexacorp.com.pg (Stuart McLachlan) Date: Wed, 24 Mar 2004 13:43:36 +1000 Subject: [AccessD] A2K: Calculate Percentages In-Reply-To: <014b01c4114e$430663b0$48619a89@DDICK> Message-ID: <40619088.23875.15154FE@localhost> On 24 Mar 2004 at 14:15, Darren DICK wrote: > Stuart you da man > My maths (and maths abilities) are just crap > Thank you so much (again) > Lucky we both have similar working hours, isn't it :-) -- Lexacorp Ltd http://www.lexacorp.com.pg Information Technology Consultancy, Software Development,System Support. From accessd at shaw.ca Tue Mar 23 21:56:02 2004 From: accessd at shaw.ca (Jim Lawrence (AccessD)) Date: Tue, 23 Mar 2004 19:56:02 -0800 Subject: [AccessD] OT: Migration to SQL Server In-Reply-To: <005101c41121$eaed9c10$1b02a8c0@MARTINREID> Message-ID: Hi Martin: I have done three, does that rate? It seemed pretty easy but the upgraded FE apps had previously been upgraded to ADO and all the queries were then manually translated into stored procedures (these are just too different to imagine any translation process being fully successful.) Data importing was a snap; just select data source and type from pop-down lists. (accessed from within EPM; tools/Data transformation services/import/...) HTH Jim -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Martin Reid Sent: Tuesday, March 23, 2004 1:58 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: [AccessD] OT: Migration to SQL Server Anyone done any work migrating SEVERAL Access dbs to a single instance of SQL Server?? Particulary interested in any problems this caused etc etc Maybe a pointer to things to come. I have been asked to look at several areas around this subject including building .NET Front Ends to migrated dbs. Martin -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com Tue Mar 23 23:34:06 2004 From: jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com (John W. Colby) Date: Wed, 24 Mar 2004 00:34:06 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Framework Discussion - Using System Variables Message-ID: The demo code for this lecture can be found on my site. Click the C2DbFW3G button, then the C2DbFW3G-DemoCtlClassV6.zip link. Framework Discussion ? Using System Variables Now that we have System Variables available to control program execution it is time to demonstrate how we use this and how useful it can be. First though, I need to display the new code to the Framework class that loads, cleans up and allows access to the SysVar class. The first thing we do is add a private variable in the header of clsFramework Private mclsSV As clsSysVars We set the variable instance in clsFramework?s Initialize method. Private Sub Class_Initialize() Set mclsSV = New clsSysVars End Sub We do our cleanup in Term(). Public Sub Term() mclsSV.Term Set mclsSV = Nothing End Sub Then we create a function to return a pointer to the framework?s SysVar class instance. Notice that while we may eventually have a handful of SysVar classes instantiated to handle other functionality, the one for the framework is a special case used throughout the Framework and thus has its own variable and methods in clsFramework. ' 'Get a pointer to the FRAMEWORK'S SV class instance ' Public Function cSV() As clsSysVars Set cSV = mclsSV End Function We also build a method for clsFramework to return framework SysVars. ' 'Return SysVars from the Framework's SysVar class ' Public Function SV(strSVName As String) As Variant SV = mclsSV.SV(strSVName) End Function Having done that we can go to the debug window, initialize the framework, then call the framework SV method and get a specific SysVar from the framework. FWInit ?fw.SV("gCtlDteFormat") dd/mm/yyyy We have demonstrated that the framework is initializing the SysVar class for the Framework itself and that we can now access this SysVar class instance through methods of the Framework. Demonstrating SysVar Usage Having SysVars available to control program flow, we can now start putting then to use. One of the uses discussed on the AccessD list was to determine the data type of a bound control and use that knowledge to set a text boxes format and input mask strings. This allows us to set these properties at the framework level rather than having to go through the application setting them one by one. In order to do this I added code in the control scanner of the framework to get the data type of the field a control is bound to. First I create a dao recordset variable in dclsFrm?s header. Private mrst As DAO.Recordset In the control scanner I create an integer variable to hold the data type, then set the class? recordset to the form?s Recordset clone. Dim intCtlData type As Integer Set mrst = mfrm.RecordsetClone Inside the loop that scans all of the controls I add code to get the data type of each control. For Each ctl In mfrm.Controls 'Find each control in the form's control collection With ctl On Error Resume Next intCtlData type = mrst.Fields(ctl.ControlSource).Type Now that I know that, I have to be able to use it. In each control class for data aware controls I added a new private variable in the class header. Private mintData type As Integer 'The data type of the field the control is bound to And added a new parameter to each of these class? init(). This code is for the text box class. Inside the Init we save the passed in value so that it is available to the class. Public Sub Init(ByRef robjParent As Object, lfrm As Form, ltxt As TextBox, lintData type As Integer) mintData type = lintData type If mintData type = dbDate Then If FW.SV("gCtlDteFormatUse") Then mtxt.Format = FW.SV("gCtlDteFormat") End If If FW.SV("gCtlDteMaskUse") Then mtxt.InputMask = FW.SV("gCtlDteMask") End If End If Now we can set the format and inputmask properties of the control to match what is in the SysVar. Notice I have a SysVar that says use the format, and another that specifies a format. We can turn on/off using the format simply by setting the gCtlDteFormatUse variable True/False. We then change the format itself by changing the gCtlDteFormat SysVar. Likewise we can do the same thing for the mask. This is still a somewhat simplified example but demonstrates what is possible using the SysVars. The next thing I want to demonstrate is overriding a SysVar at the form level. Form level SysVar overrides It occasionally happens that certain behaviors need to be set for specific forms but not others. In order to do this we need to be able to have the form class load SysVars that apply to its behaviors or control behaviors, then look for the form?s name in the SysVar name. For example, we might have a SysVar named gCtlDteMaskUse. The form class has a function that loads this SysVar into a variable in the class so that its controls can poll the form class to decide whether to use a date mask. However if also looks for a SysVar with the same name but the form?s name at the end ? gCtlDteMaskUsefrmPeople. As forms load, each look for its own name in the each SysVar, but only frmPeople finds its name embedded in a SysVar. It strips its name out of the SysVar and uses the remainder of the SysVar name to set that SysVar value. Thus only that specific form gets an ?override? of that SysVar. This will be a little easier to see as I go through the code. Please remember that this is not a science by any means. Since I have never talked to anyone else doing this in their framework, there are undoubtedly other or better ways to do this, and other things that could be used with this idea. Any positive suggestions on the implementation are appreciated. In fact I have never been particularly happy with my implementation since it required adding a new variable to the form class header for each new behavior / property I want to control, and a new Property Get to read that variable out, at least for those properties where a control will be using the SysVar. As always happens, I started implementing these and ended up with many additional variables in the class header and many additional property gets for the class just to handle the form / control SysVars. I am looking at throwing all of these into a collection keyed on the base SysVar name. That would allow a single collection to hold all form / control specific SysVars and a single property get to read any SysVar in the collection, allowing extremely easy expansion of the system as new SysVars are needed in the form / controls. To implement this functionality we add a collection variable in the header of dclsFrm. '+SysVar overrides Private mcolSysVars As Collection 'A collection to hold all the form / control specific SysVars '-SysVar overrides Initialize it in the class? Initialize. Private Sub Class_Initialize() Set mcolSysVars = New Collection End Sub In Init() call a function to read the SysVars we want to use. Public Sub Init(ByRef robjParent As Object, lfrm As Form) 'Read all of the SysVars specific to forms / controls ReadSysVarBehaviorEnbls End Sub Cleanup in Term() Public Sub Term() Set mcolSysVars = Nothing End Sub ReadSysVarBehaviorEnbls reads (or tests for) exactly the SysVars that we need for form / control handling. 'The system variables can turn On and Off behaviors globally - for example combo dbl-click handling. 'However the developer may wish to override that behavior for certain forms. In order to accomplish 'this the form has to search the SysVar tables for specific switches defined at framework design time 'and handle them appropriately ' 'gCboDblClick - Gobal Dbl-Click turns on / off dbl-click handling for combos. May be over-ridden at the form level. 'gCboNotInList - Global NotInList turns on / off NotInList handling for combos. May be over-ridden at the form level. 'gCboEnter - Global Enter turns on / off Enter AND EXIT event handling for combos. ' 'fCboDblClickFrmClient - an example of an override - frmClient handles CboDblClick differently that the rest ' Private Function ReadSysVarBehaviorEnbls() On Error GoTo Err_ReadSysVarBehaviorEnbls 'The call to the function SysVarBehaviorEnbl requires the name of the SysVar minus the leading g, f, etc. SysVarBehaviorEnbl "CboDblClick" SysVarBehaviorEnbl "CboNotInList" SysVarBehaviorEnbl "EnblCtlBackGndColorChg" SysVarBehaviorEnbl "CtlBackGndColor" SysVarBehaviorEnbl "EnblLblBackGndColorDblClk" SysVarBehaviorEnbl "LblBackGndColorDblClk" SysVarBehaviorEnbl "CtlValidateBackGndColor" SysVarBehaviorEnbl "CtlDteFormat" SysVarBehaviorEnbl "CtlDteMask" SysVarBehaviorEnbl "CtlDteFormatUse" SysVarBehaviorEnbl "CtlDteMaskUse" SysVarBehaviorEnbl "PrpFrmCloseButton", mfrm.CloseButton, True SysVarBehaviorEnbl "PrpFrmMinMaxButtons", mfrm.MinMaxButtons, True SysVarBehaviorEnbl "PrpFrmControlBox", mfrm.ControlBox, True SysVarBehaviorEnbl "PrpFrmBorderStyle", mfrm.BorderStyle, True Exit_ReadSysVarBehaviorEnbls: On Error Resume Next Exit Function Err_ReadSysVarBehaviorEnbls: MsgBox Err.Description, , "Error in Function dclsFrm.ReadSysVarBehaviorEnbls" Resume Exit_ReadSysVarBehaviorEnbls Resume 0 '.FOR TROUBLESHOOTING End Function And finally SysVarBehaviorEnbl performs the magic of finding the SysVar, checking for an override etc. ' 'This function takes a passed in variable and the base name of a systemvariable, and builds up the 'global or form name, looks for the SysVars and sets the variable accordingly. ' 'The global switch starts with the character g, then the SysVar name 'the form switch starts with the letter f, then the SysVar name, then the name of the form ' 'For example, in the SysVar table we have 'gCboDblClick' which if set turns on combo dbl-clicks globally 'however a form can override the global if there is an 'fCboDblClickXXXXX' where XXXX is the name of the form ' 'This function basically just enforces a strict naming convention and wraps it all in an easy to use function ' Private Function SysVarBehaviorEnbl(strSysVarName As String, Optional varVariable As Variant, _ Optional blnIsFrmProperty As Boolean = False) On Error GoTo Err_SysVarBehaviorEnbl Dim var As Variant Dim varTemp As Variant 'get the global enable if any var = FW.SV("g" & strSysVarName) If Not IsNull(var) Then varVariable = var 'add the name of this form to 'fCboDblClick' to see if there's an override for this form specifically varTemp = FW.SV("f" & strSysVarName & mfrm.Name) If Not IsNull(varTemp) Then var = FW.SV("f" & strSysVarName & mfrm.Name) End If ' 'If this is a form property handle it as such. ' If blnIsFrmProperty Then varVariable = var Else ' ' 'Otherwise just add it to the SysVar collection keyed to the SysVarName If Not IsNull(var) Then mcolSysVars.Add var, strSysVarName End If End If Exit_SysVarBehaviorEnbl: On Error Resume Next Exit Function Err_SysVarBehaviorEnbl: MsgBox Err.Description, , "Error in Function dclsFrm.SysVarBehaviorEnbl" Resume Exit_SysVarBehaviorEnbl Resume 0 '.FOR TROUBLESHOOTING End Function We now have a single Property Get SV() to retrieve any SysVar that is loaded into the form?s SysVars collection. ' 'This property reads a SysVar if it exists in mcolSysVars, 'or returns a null if not in the collection ' Property Get SV(strSVName As String) As Variant On Error Resume Next SV = mcolSysVars(strSVName) If Err <> 0 Then SV = Null End If End Property Now we can add new SysVars for form / control use simply by adding a single line of code in ReadSysVarBehaviorEnbls which allows much easier modifications to the form and control classes to use SysVar control. Form Properties Another use for SysVars and form level overrides is setting form properties through SysVars. Since properties are just some value ? true/false, an integer etc. ? we can if we desire set specific form properties using SysVars. If the property name exists then that value gets loaded in that property of any form that loads, or for a specific form or forms. I never really explored this idea fully but I implemented it in case I ran into a use for it. Just remember that some properties are only settable in design view, and these we cannot affect using SysVars. Things like the CloseButton property, MinMaxButton etc can be set through VB and thus can be controlled by SysVars if you find that useful. The Syntax is simply: SysVarBehaviorEnbl mfrm.CloseButton, "PrpFrmCloseButton" SysVarBehaviorEnbl mfrm.MinMaxButtons, "PrpFrmMinMaxButtons" SysVarBehaviorEnbl mfrm.ControlBox, "PrpFrmControlBox" SysVarBehaviorEnbl mfrm.BorderStyle, "PrpFrmBorderStyle" Control SysVars Controls obviously need to be able to read SysVars to modify their behaviors as well, as we saw demonstrated at the beginning of this lecture. In order to reduce complexity and place all form / control SysVar loads in a common location I do the load of all Control SysVars in the form class as well. By exposing a SV property that can read any SysVar value back out of the form?s SysVar collection, the controls can ?poll? the form class for SysVars that they need. To demonstrate this we will modify the text box class to ask the form class about the date mask. In the form?s Init(): If mintData type = dbDate Then If mobjParent.SV("CtlDteFormatUse") Then mtxt.Format = mobjParent.SV("CtlDteFormat") End If If mobjParent.SV("CtlDteMaskUse") Then mtxt.InputMask = mobjParent.SV("CtlDteMask") End If End If To see the effects of using the SysVar, simply select the HOUSAC WATER QUALITY DISTRICT company, then notice that the DOB field is formatted per the gCtlDteFormat in usystblFWSysVars. You can turn on/off this functionality by setting gCtlDteFormatUse True or False as you desire, then in the debug window calling fw.csv.RefreshSysVars. This calls the framework, gets a pointer to the SysVars class using the framework?s csv property, then calls the RefreshSysVars method of that class. Summary SysVars provide a powerful tool for modifying the Framework or Application behaviors. We can use generic behaviors, setting default behaviors that we can then modify behaviors for an entire application, or on a form by form basis. The controls can modify their behaviors by calling the parent form class? SV method to get a SysVar value. In the future we will be adding dozens of behaviors to the form class and the various control classes. Virtually all of these behaviors will be programmable by setting up SysVars in usystblFWSysVars and then reading out the SysVars in the form class. Our code will then use these values to set control and label background colors when behaviors are enabled, enable these various behaviors, enable things like JIT subforms and so forth. A framework is far more than a simple hammer. Any time we program a behavior that we have needed forever or are using over and over in our applications, consider placing that behavior in the control or form class as appropriate, then turn on / off that behavior with SysVars. Suddenly you will be able to offer options to the client literally at the ?push of a button? ? or the setting of a SysVar. To a man with a hammer, everything may very well look like a nail. To a developer with a framework and SysVars, the search and replace tool becomes the last resort instead of the first. John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com From jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com Wed Mar 24 00:10:04 2004 From: jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com (John W. Colby) Date: Wed, 24 Mar 2004 01:10:04 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Framework Discussion - Another poll Message-ID: I need to take another poll. Would everyone following the discussion please raise their hands. Thanks, John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com From Kenneth.Stoker at pnl.gov Wed Mar 24 00:28:37 2004 From: Kenneth.Stoker at pnl.gov (Stoker, Kenneth E) Date: Tue, 23 Mar 2004 22:28:37 -0800 Subject: [AccessD] Framework Discussion - Another poll Message-ID: <249C1CB246997C48BB74963CCD361C1B014A05B6@pnlmse28.pnl.gov> Here, Here. I am not reading as closely at the moment, right in the middle of transitioning to a new job, but I am saving everything that even hints at the framework discussion religiously. Ken Stoker -----Original Message----- From: John W. Colby [mailto:jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com] Sent: Tuesday, March 23, 2004 10:10 PM To: AccessD Subject: [AccessD] Framework Discussion - Another poll I need to take another poll. Would everyone following the discussion please raise their hands. Thanks, John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From accessd667 at yahoo.com Wed Mar 24 00:33:26 2004 From: accessd667 at yahoo.com (S D) Date: Tue, 23 Mar 2004 22:33:26 -0800 (PST) Subject: [AccessD] VBE Error Handler In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <20040324063326.81387.qmail@web61106.mail.yahoo.com> grmbl. A pitty. I think I'm going to try using you're error handler and some copy/paste/replace stuff...or copy it into a textfile and write a litte prog to do the replacing. Thanks anyway. Sander PS: A couple of weeks back I saw my first MS-Access 2.0 app from 1995 or so....oi, PS1 was not completely applicable but....although normalization was correct and it still works like a charm :-) "John W. Colby" wrote: LOL to the whole message!!! In particular the PS1: I feel for you, but with any luck it will generate prodigious revenue as you clean it up. The error handler wizard is in VB and is under the care of Seth Galitzer. This sounds like a very custom mod which you would probably have to make. John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of S D Sent: Tuesday, March 23, 2004 9:34 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] VBE Error Handler We use a VB function to create a standard message. We use this in all (500+) applications. I don't won't to break the line of work. Problem is we enherited a HUGE Access app (250+ tables, 300+ forms, 7(!?!) modules) So we've got the following line in all our error handling: Call GenErr("Switchdatabase.Form_Startscherm", "Form_Load") TIA Sander PS1: according to the programmer of this beast: - 'normalization'? What's that, a snack? - a function is never used more then once - dim a, b, c as string creates 3 strings.... - dim blnError as String blnError = "0" blnError = "1" blnError = "incorrect" aaahhhhrg..... "John W. Colby" wrote: In short, it is not "programmable". The message the user gets is the native Access error plus the function / module name. What did you have in mind? John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of S D Sent: Tuesday, March 23, 2004 8:20 AM To: accessd Subject: [AccessD] VBE Error Handler Hi group, i downloaded the VBE Error Handler dll from www.databaseadvisors written by John Colby. I really love this program....almost. It works great however I want to change the message that the user gets. Is that possible? Thnx in advance. Regards Sander Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Finance Tax Center - File online. File on time. -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Finance Tax Center - File online. File on time. -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Finance Tax Center - File online. File on time. From davide at dalyn.co.nz Wed Mar 24 00:46:40 2004 From: davide at dalyn.co.nz (David Emerson) Date: Wed, 24 Mar 2004 18:46:40 +1200 Subject: [AccessD] Framework Discussion - Another poll In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <5.2.0.9.0.20040324184434.00b2bc80@mail.dalyn.co.nz> ____ _ | | | | | / / \ / | | Regards David Emerson Dalyn Software Ltd 25 Cunliffe St, Churton Park Wellington, New Zealand Ph/Fax 0064 4 478-7456 At 24/03/2004, you wrote: >I need to take another poll. Would everyone following the discussion please >raise their hands. > >Thanks, > >John W. Colby >www.ColbyConsulting.com > > >-- >_______________________________________________ >AccessD mailing list >AccessD at databaseadvisors.com >http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd >Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From accessd667 at yahoo.com Wed Mar 24 00:55:40 2004 From: accessd667 at yahoo.com (S D) Date: Tue, 23 Mar 2004 22:55:40 -0800 (PST) Subject: [AccessD] Web Pages in Access In-Reply-To: <23218488.1080053745940.JavaMail.www@wwinf3006> Message-ID: <20040324065540.67323.qmail@web61107.mail.yahoo.com> Here you go: http://www.asp101.com/samples/login.asp Regards, Sander. PS: this is a great site for a beginner. Very clear samples WITH GREAT expl. paul.hartland at fsmail.net wrote: Sander, The original message was from Dale, I replied with my question of sample code for ASP logon etc which checks a username and password from an Access or SQL Server database. I?m still after any sample code with a brief explanation of how it all works for an ASP logon page. Paul Message date : Mar 23 2004, 02:48 PM >From : "S D" To : "Access Developers discussion and problem solving" Copy to : Subject : Re: Re: [AccessD] Web Pages in Access Paul, is it standard ASP that you want? I've had to deal with the same problem and that's why I started building my own pages for testing and such. I can send them to you off-line if you want. I'm not exactly sure what you did but if you somehow exporterd you're standard Access master-detail form to ASP...I don't think that that will work. ASP doesn't have 'sub-forms' Maybe Access-ASP has. In standard ASP you would build a table using HTML and fill it with a recordset. Then you would have to check how many records you would like to see....create nav buttons...aarhg the horror is getting worse and worse. If need the samples let me know. I believe I use a SQL-Server as data thingy...hmm have to look tonight. Regards, Sander paul.hartland at fsmail.net wrote: Tell you what, I'm just about to start getting into HTML, ASP etc (horrified at the thought, but it has to be done). So if anyone has sample code for a pretty secure logon page that will then direct the user to a menu page if the password is correct etc I would like to see the code, preferably with a simple explanation of how it works. I have found various little bits and pieces on the web but could never get them to work properly. Paul Hartland Message date : Mar 23 2004, 12:34 PM >From : chris at thecube.net To : accessd at databaseadvisors.com Copy to : Subject : Re: [AccessD] Web Pages in Access Dale, Looks like you need to start venturing into ASP, if you cade code using recordsets then ASP is not really that big a step. Let me know if you would like a kick start and/or sample ASP Cheers Chris ----- Original Message ----- From: Dale Kalsow To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Sent: Mon, 22 Mar 2004 12:51:40 -0800 (PST) Subject: [AccessD] Web Pages in Access Does Anyone have experiance with creating web pages through Acess. I have a form that currently works within access. It displays the fields of a table and then has a subform that displays (and allows modifications) all of the parts that go along with the master record. I can export the form to html but loose the subform and have not been able to figure out how to recrate the functionally of the subform. All help is appreciated! Thanks! Dale Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Finance Tax Center - File online. File on time. -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com [ (no filename) (0.2 Kb) ] Freeserve AnyTime - HALF PRICE for the first 3 months - Save ?7.50 a month www.freeserve.com/anytime -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Finance Tax Center - File online. File on time. -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com Freeserve AnyTime - HALF PRICE for the first 3 months - Save ?7.50 a month www.freeserve.com/anytime -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Finance Tax Center - File online. File on time. From Philippe.Pons19 at wanadoo.fr Wed Mar 24 01:41:27 2004 From: Philippe.Pons19 at wanadoo.fr (Philippe Pons) Date: Wed, 24 Mar 2004 08:41:27 +0100 Subject: [AccessD] Framework Discussion - Another poll References: <249C1CB246997C48BB74963CCD361C1B014A05B6@pnlmse28.pnl.gov> Message-ID: <001201c41173$6ab5ff40$4915fa51@linceow2000pro> Yes I am... Reading, studying and experimenting... Thnaks, Philippe ----- Original Message ----- From: "Stoker, Kenneth E" To: "Access Developers discussion and problem solving" Sent: Wednesday, March 24, 2004 7:28 AM Subject: RE: [AccessD] Framework Discussion - Another poll > Here, Here. I am not reading as closely at the moment, right in the > middle of transitioning to a new job, but I am saving everything that > even hints at the framework discussion religiously. > > Ken Stoker > > -----Original Message----- > From: John W. Colby [mailto:jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com] > Sent: Tuesday, March 23, 2004 10:10 PM > To: AccessD > Subject: [AccessD] Framework Discussion - Another poll > > > I need to take another poll. Would everyone following the discussion > please raise their hands. > > Thanks, > > John W. Colby > www.ColbyConsulting.com > > > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From paul.hartland at fsmail.net Wed Mar 24 02:43:39 2004 From: paul.hartland at fsmail.net (paul.hartland at fsmail.net) Date: Wed, 24 Mar 2004 09:43:39 +0100 (CET) Subject: [AccessD] Web Pages in Access Message-ID: <30445198.1080117818990.JavaMail.www@wwinf3003> Thanks, will try that.... Message date : Mar 24 2004, 06:57 AM >From : "S D" To : "Access Developers discussion and problem solving" Copy to : Subject : Re: Re: Re: [AccessD] Web Pages in Access Here you go: http://www.asp101.com/samples/login.asp Regards, Sander. PS: this is a great site for a beginner. Very clear samples WITH GREAT expl. paul.hartland at fsmail.net wrote: Sander, The original message was from Dale, I replied with my question of sample code for ASP logon etc which checks a username and password from an Access or SQL Server database. I?m still after any sample code with a brief explanation of how it all works for an ASP logon page. Paul Message date : Mar 23 2004, 02:48 PM >From : "S D" To : "Access Developers discussion and problem solving" Copy to : Subject : Re: Re: [AccessD] Web Pages in Access Paul, is it standard ASP that you want? I've had to deal with the same problem and that's why I started building my own pages for testing and such. I can send them to you off-line if you want. I'm not exactly sure what you did but if you somehow exporterd you're standard Access master-detail form to ASP...I don't think that that will work. ASP doesn't have 'sub-forms' Maybe Access-ASP has. In standard ASP you would build a table using HTML and fill it with a recordset. Then you would have to check how many records you would like to see....create nav buttons...aarhg the horror is getting worse and worse. If need the samples let me know. I believe I use a SQL-Server as data thingy...hmm have to look tonight. Regards, Sander paul.hartland at fsmail.net wrote: Tell you what, I'm just about to start getting into HTML, ASP etc (horrified at the thought, but it has to be done). So if anyone has sample code for a pretty secure logon page that will then direct the user to a menu page if the password is correct etc I would like to see the code, preferably with a simple explanation of how it works. I have found various little bits and pieces on the web but could never get them to work properly. Paul Hartland Message date : Mar 23 2004, 12:34 PM >From : chris at thecube.net To : accessd at databaseadvisors.com Copy to : Subject : Re: [AccessD] Web Pages in Access Dale, Looks like you need to start venturing into ASP, if you cade code using recordsets then ASP is not really that big a step. Let me know if you would like a kick start and/or sample ASP Cheers Chris ----- Original Message ----- From: Dale Kalsow To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Sent: Mon, 22 Mar 2004 12:51:40 -0800 (PST) Subject: [AccessD] Web Pages in Access Does Anyone have experiance with creating web pages through Acess. I have a form that currently works within access. It displays the fields of a table and then has a subform that displays (and allows modifications) all of the parts that go along with the master record. I can export the form to html but loose the subform and have not been able to figure out how to recrate the functionally of the subform. All help is appreciated! Thanks! Dale Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Finance Tax Center - File online. File on time. -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com [ (no filename) (0.2 Kb) ] Freeserve AnyTime - HALF PRICE for the first 3 months - Save ?7.50 a month www.freeserve.com/anytime -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Finance Tax Center - File online. File on time. -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com Freeserve AnyTime - HALF PRICE for the first 3 months - Save ?7.50 a month www.freeserve.com/anytime -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Finance Tax Center - File online. File on time. -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com Freeserve AnyTime - HALF PRICE for the first 3 months - Save ?7.50 a month www.freeserve.com/anytime From accessd667 at yahoo.com Wed Mar 24 02:50:08 2004 From: accessd667 at yahoo.com (S D) Date: Wed, 24 Mar 2004 00:50:08 -0800 (PST) Subject: [AccessD] Find FE Path? Message-ID: <20040324085008.36532.qmail@web61103.mail.yahoo.com> Hi group, how can I figure out from wich path the FE was started? I know how to find the BE path, but how can find the FE? Regards, Sander Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Finance Tax Center - File online. File on time. From stuart at lexacorp.com.pg Wed Mar 24 03:19:18 2004 From: stuart at lexacorp.com.pg (Stuart McLachlan) Date: Wed, 24 Mar 2004 19:19:18 +1000 Subject: [AccessD] Find FE Path? In-Reply-To: <20040324085008.36532.qmail@web61103.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <4061DF36.5124.284AC12@localhost> On 24 Mar 2004 at 0:50, S D wrote: > Hi group, > > how can I figure out from wich path the FE was started? > I know how to find the BE path, but how can find the FE? > Second time I've posted this one in 24 hours. Static Function ApplDir() As String Dim strApplDir As String Dim strTemp As String If strApplDir = "" Then strTemp = DBEngine(0)(0).Name strApplDir = Left$(strTemp, InStrRev(strTemp, "\")) End If ApplDir = strApplDir End Function -- Lexacorp Ltd http://www.lexacorp.com.pg Information Technology Consultancy, Software Development,System Support. From davide at dalyn.co.nz Wed Mar 24 03:25:42 2004 From: davide at dalyn.co.nz (David Emerson) Date: Wed, 24 Mar 2004 21:25:42 +1200 Subject: [AccessD] Find FE Path? In-Reply-To: <20040324085008.36532.qmail@web61103.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <5.2.0.9.0.20040324211913.00b2bd08@mail.dalyn.co.nz> Sander, You can try CurrentProject.Path (not sure which version of Access this was added to). Regards David Emerson Dalyn Software Ltd 25 Cunliffe St, Churton Park Wellington, New Zealand Ph/Fax 0064 4 478-7456 At 24/03/2004, you wrote: >Hi group, > >how can I figure out from wich path the FE was started? >I know how to find the BE path, but how can find the FE? > >Regards, > >Sander > >Do you Yahoo!? >Yahoo! Finance Tax Center - File online. File on time. >-- >_______________________________________________ >AccessD mailing list >AccessD at databaseadvisors.com >http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd >Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From d.dick at uws.edu.au Wed Mar 24 03:48:35 2004 From: d.dick at uws.edu.au (Darren DICK) Date: Wed, 24 Mar 2004 20:48:35 +1100 Subject: [AccessD] Find FE Path? References: <20040324085008.36532.qmail@web61103.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <003d01c41185$2e164330$30669a89@DDICK> Private sub myclicker() msgbox Left(CurrentDb.Name, Len(CurrentDb.Name) - Len(Dir(CurrentDb.Name))) end sub Will give you the the directory oops sorry - f o l d e r - that the app was lanched from :-)) Private Sub MyClicker2() msgbox CurrentDb.Name end sub will give the full path of the app including the app name Hope this helps Darren ----- Original Message ----- From: "S D" To: "accessd" Sent: Wednesday, March 24, 2004 7:50 PM Subject: [AccessD] Find FE Path? > Hi group, > > how can I figure out from wich path the FE was started? > I know how to find the BE path, but how can find the FE? > > Regards, > > Sander > > Do you Yahoo!? > Yahoo! Finance Tax Center - File online. File on time. > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From gustav at cactus.dk Wed Mar 24 03:56:09 2004 From: gustav at cactus.dk (Gustav Brock) Date: Wed, 24 Mar 2004 10:56:09 +0100 Subject: [AccessD] Framework Discussion - Another poll In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <1749581136.20040324105609@cactus.dk> Hi John I do. /gustav > I need to take another poll. Would everyone following the discussion please > raise their hands. From mwp.reid at qub.ac.uk Wed Mar 24 04:17:23 2004 From: mwp.reid at qub.ac.uk (Martin Reid) Date: Wed, 24 Mar 2004 10:17:23 -0000 Subject: [AccessD] Framework Discussion - Another poll References: <1749581136.20040324105609@cactus.dk> Message-ID: <000901c41189$32baa120$9111758f@aine> here martin ----- Original Message ----- From: "Gustav Brock" To: "Access Developers discussion and problem solving" Sent: Wednesday, March 24, 2004 9:56 AM Subject: Re: [AccessD] Framework Discussion - Another poll > Hi John > > I do. > > /gustav > > > > I need to take another poll. Would everyone following the discussion please > > raise their hands. > > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > From d.dick at uws.edu.au Wed Mar 24 04:26:32 2004 From: d.dick at uws.edu.au (Darren DICK) Date: Wed, 24 Mar 2004 21:26:32 +1100 Subject: [AccessD] A2K: Percentages again Message-ID: <008601c4118a$7b5bcf70$30669a89@DDICK> Hello all Hi Stuart (beg beg govel grovel :-)) How do I do it backwards now. Eg $250 invoice - Client pays $50 That's 20% but how do I calc that? Many thanks in advance Darren From conny at qad.se Wed Mar 24 04:26:56 2004 From: conny at qad.se (Conny Johansson) Date: Wed, 24 Mar 2004 11:26:56 +0100 Subject: SV: [AccessD] Framework Discussion - Another poll In-Reply-To: <1749581136.20040324105609@cactus.dk> Message-ID: <20040324102646.EC9D437E59@smtp3-1-sn1.fre.skanova.net> So do I Conny J -----Ursprungligt meddelande----- Fr?n: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] F?r Gustav Brock Skickat: den 24 mars 2004 10:56 Till: Access Developers discussion and problem solving ?mne: Re: [AccessD] Framework Discussion - Another poll Hi John I do. /gustav > I need to take another poll. Would everyone following the discussion please > raise their hands. -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com _____ avast! Antivirus : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 0403-17, 03/22/2004 Tested on: 2004-03-24 11:26:56 avast! is copyright (c) 2000-2003 ALWIL Software. From accessd667 at yahoo.com Wed Mar 24 04:32:37 2004 From: accessd667 at yahoo.com (S D) Date: Wed, 24 Mar 2004 02:32:37 -0800 (PST) Subject: [AccessD] Framework Discussion - Another poll In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <20040324103237.57551.qmail@web61108.mail.yahoo.com> raised! Sander "John W. Colby" wrote: I need to take another poll. Would everyone following the discussion please raise their hands. Thanks, John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Finance Tax Center - File online. File on time. From Helmut.E.Kotsch at t-online.de Wed Mar 24 04:36:40 2004 From: Helmut.E.Kotsch at t-online.de (Helmut Kotsch) Date: Wed, 24 Mar 2004 11:36:40 +0100 Subject: AW: [AccessD] A2K: Percentages again In-Reply-To: <008601c4118a$7b5bcf70$30669a89@DDICK> Message-ID: Darren, 50 divided by 250 equals to .2 .2 times 100 equals to 20 which makes it 20 of 100 or 20%. Helmut Kotsch -----Urspr?ngliche Nachricht----- Von: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]Im Auftrag von Darren DICK Gesendet: Mittwoch, 24. M?rz 2004 11:27 An: AccessD List Betreff: [AccessD] A2K: Percentages again Hello all Hi Stuart (beg beg govel grovel :-)) How do I do it backwards now. Eg $250 invoice - Client pays $50 That's 20% but how do I calc that? Many thanks in advance Darren -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From rsmethurst at UK.EY.COM Wed Mar 24 04:40:55 2004 From: rsmethurst at UK.EY.COM (rsmethurst at UK.EY.COM) Date: Wed, 24 Mar 2004 10:40:55 +0000 Subject: [AccessD] OT: Migration to SQL Server Message-ID: Martin, I've done it a few times in the (distant) past and found the process 'relatively' painless. Biggest issue I had was ensuring the datatypes were compatible...as I recall I had an issue with the Access curreny type but it was easily sorted. Agree with Jim, that it's worth manually transferring any complex queries as you'll tend to get problems with those, and I think you'll also get issues if you try to upgrade crosstab queries. 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From d.dick at uws.edu.au Wed Mar 24 05:14:06 2004 From: d.dick at uws.edu.au (Darren DICK) Date: Wed, 24 Mar 2004 22:14:06 +1100 Subject: [AccessD] A2K: Percentages again References: Message-ID: <000901c41191$20219b60$30669a89@DDICK> Helmut Thanks heaps Just what I needed Have agreatday This list (and it's people) is awesome Darren ----- Original Message ----- From: "Helmut Kotsch" To: "Access Developers discussion and problem solving" Sent: Wednesday, March 24, 2004 9:36 PM Subject: AW: [AccessD] A2K: Percentages again > Darren, > > 50 divided by 250 equals to .2 > .2 times 100 equals to 20 > which makes it 20 of 100 or 20%. > > Helmut Kotsch > > -----Urspr?ngliche Nachricht----- > Von: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]Im Auftrag von Darren DICK > Gesendet: Mittwoch, 24. M?rz 2004 11:27 > An: AccessD List > Betreff: [AccessD] A2K: Percentages again > > > Hello all > Hi Stuart (beg beg govel grovel :-)) > How do I do it backwards now. > Eg $250 invoice - Client pays $50 That's 20% but how do I calc that? > > Many thanks in advance > > Darren > > > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From Subscriptions at servicexp.com Wed Mar 24 06:08:47 2004 From: Subscriptions at servicexp.com (Robert Gracie) Date: Wed, 24 Mar 2004 07:08:47 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Framework Discussion - Another poll In-Reply-To: Message-ID: I Am! Robert Gracie www.servicexp.com -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of John W. Colby Sent: Wednesday, March 24, 2004 1:10 AM To: AccessD Subject: [AccessD] Framework Discussion - Another poll I need to take another poll. Would everyone following the discussion please raise their hands. Thanks, John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com Wed Mar 24 06:22:53 2004 From: jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com (John W. Colby) Date: Wed, 24 Mar 2004 07:22:53 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] VBE Error Handler In-Reply-To: <20040324063326.81387.qmail@web61106.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: >grmbl. Yea, I understand. Unfortunately I am not a VB kind of guy. I "wrote" the original but it was in Access. I don't event own VB (non .NET version anyway). You might beg and plead with Drew Wutka. He is very handy with VB and loves a challenge. It would also give him a chance to get up to his elbows in my old code and moan about it. I know Seth moaned a bit. John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of S D Sent: Wednesday, March 24, 2004 1:33 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] VBE Error Handler grmbl. A pitty. I think I'm going to try using you're error handler and some copy/paste/replace stuff...or copy it into a textfile and write a litte prog to do the replacing. Thanks anyway. Sander PS: A couple of weeks back I saw my first MS-Access 2.0 app from 1995 or so....oi, PS1 was not completely applicable but....although normalization was correct and it still works like a charm :-) "John W. Colby" wrote: LOL to the whole message!!! In particular the PS1: I feel for you, but with any luck it will generate prodigious revenue as you clean it up. The error handler wizard is in VB and is under the care of Seth Galitzer. This sounds like a very custom mod which you would probably have to make. John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of S D Sent: Tuesday, March 23, 2004 9:34 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] VBE Error Handler We use a VB function to create a standard message. We use this in all (500+) applications. I don't won't to break the line of work. Problem is we enherited a HUGE Access app (250+ tables, 300+ forms, 7(!?!) modules) So we've got the following line in all our error handling: Call GenErr("Switchdatabase.Form_Startscherm", "Form_Load") TIA Sander PS1: according to the programmer of this beast: - 'normalization'? What's that, a snack? - a function is never used more then once - dim a, b, c as string creates 3 strings.... - dim blnError as String blnError = "0" blnError = "1" blnError = "incorrect" aaahhhhrg..... "John W. Colby" wrote: In short, it is not "programmable". The message the user gets is the native Access error plus the function / module name. What did you have in mind? John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of S D Sent: Tuesday, March 23, 2004 8:20 AM To: accessd Subject: [AccessD] VBE Error Handler Hi group, i downloaded the VBE Error Handler dll from www.databaseadvisors written by John Colby. I really love this program....almost. It works great however I want to change the message that the user gets. Is that possible? Thnx in advance. Regards Sander Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Finance Tax Center - File online. File on time. -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Finance Tax Center - File online. File on time. -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Finance Tax Center - File online. File on time. -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From tinanfields at torchlake.com Wed Mar 24 06:30:08 2004 From: tinanfields at torchlake.com (Tina Norris Fields) Date: Wed, 24 Mar 2004 07:30:08 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Framework Discussion - Another poll References: Message-ID: <40617F50.4000706@torchlake.com> Me, me, me - need to read and re-read until I understand it, but - me, me, me!!!!! Tina John W. Colby wrote: >I need to take another poll. Would everyone following the discussion please >raise their hands. > >Thanks, > >John W. Colby >www.ColbyConsulting.com > > > > From tinanfields at torchlake.com Wed Mar 24 06:46:39 2004 From: tinanfields at torchlake.com (Tina Norris Fields) Date: Wed, 24 Mar 2004 07:46:39 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Creating Web Pages from Access References: <20040323112935.36604.qmail@web9804.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <4061832F.1030200@torchlake.com> Dale, Even though I'm not crazy about them - I think this is what Data Access Pages were created for. Have you tried that approach? Tina Dale Kalsow wrote: >Good Morning, > > > >Does anyone create web pages from within access? I currently have an access form that contains all the master information for a return. I also have a subform on the master form that contains multiple records (the part numbers of the return). When I export the form to a web page the main part is ok but I look the subform. Does anyone know how to create the subform's functionality on a web page? > > > >Thanks for any and all help! > > > >Dale > >Do you Yahoo!? >Yahoo! Finance Tax Center - File online. File on time. > > From mikedorism at adelphia.net Wed Mar 24 06:27:29 2004 From: mikedorism at adelphia.net (Mike & Doris Manning) Date: Wed, 24 Mar 2004 07:27:29 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] OT: Migration to SQL Server In-Reply-To: <005101c41121$eaed9c10$1b02a8c0@MARTINREID> Message-ID: <000001c4119b$5fda94a0$c4194244@hargrove.internal> Hi Martin, I migrated four different Access dbs to a single instance of SQL Server about a year ago and didn't encounter any problems. Doris Manning Database Administrator Hargrove Inc. www.hargroveinc.com -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Martin Reid Sent: Tuesday, March 23, 2004 4:58 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: [AccessD] OT: Migration to SQL Server Anyone done any work migrating SEVERAL Access dbs to a single instance of SQL Server?? Particulary interested in any problems this caused etc etc Maybe a pointer to things to come. I have been asked to look at several areas around this subject including building .NET Front Ends to migrated dbs. Martin -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From info at Oop.nl Wed Mar 24 06:51:33 2004 From: info at Oop.nl (Marcel Vreuls) Date: Wed, 24 Mar 2004 13:51:33 +0100 Subject: [AccessD] Framework Discussion - Another poll In-Reply-To: <40617F50.4000706@torchlake.com> Message-ID: <005701c4119e$bd59a410$9700000a@ooplaptop> John, I do but have less time because I am in the middle of a startup in a new project. But save all the messages in a seperate folder to read them on a rainy sunday :-). Thnx, marcel -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Tina Norris Fields Sent: woensdag 24 maart 2004 13:30 To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Framework Discussion - Another poll Me, me, me - need to read and re-read until I understand it, but - me, me, me!!!!! Tina John W. Colby wrote: >I need to take another poll. Would everyone following the discussion please >raise their hands. > >Thanks, > >John W. Colby >www.ColbyConsulting.com > > > > -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From mwp.reid at qub.ac.uk Wed Mar 24 06:55:34 2004 From: mwp.reid at qub.ac.uk (Martin Reid) Date: Wed, 24 Mar 2004 12:55:34 -0000 Subject: [AccessD] OT: Migration to SQL Server References: <000001c4119b$5fda94a0$c4194244@hargrove.internal> Message-ID: <002101c4119f$4c219cc0$9111758f@aine> Anything special you had to do in terms of SQL Server to assist in managing the resulting databases? for example creating admin users etc Martin ----- Original Message ----- From: "Mike & Doris Manning" To: "'Access Developers discussion and problem solving'" Sent: Wednesday, March 24, 2004 12:27 PM Subject: RE: [AccessD] OT: Migration to SQL Server > Hi Martin, > > I migrated four different Access dbs to a single instance of SQL Server > about a year ago and didn't encounter any problems. > > Doris Manning > Database Administrator > Hargrove Inc. > www.hargroveinc.com > > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Martin Reid > Sent: Tuesday, March 23, 2004 4:58 PM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: [AccessD] OT: Migration to SQL Server > > > Anyone done any work migrating SEVERAL Access dbs to a single instance of > SQL Server?? > > Particulary interested in any problems this caused etc etc > > Maybe a pointer to things to come. I have been asked to look at several > areas around this subject including building .NET Front Ends to migrated > dbs. > > Martin > > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > From gjgiever at yahoo.com Wed Mar 24 07:02:34 2004 From: gjgiever at yahoo.com (Gary) Date: Wed, 24 Mar 2004 05:02:34 -0800 (PST) Subject: [AccessD] Table Index Message-ID: <20040324130234.97577.qmail@web10504.mail.yahoo.com> I've seen this information somewhere before but I can't seen to locate it. I have an Access 97 database that gives this message: "Operation invalid without a current index. (Error 3019. Set the Index, and then try the operation again. Does anyone know how to go about setting an index? I cannot see the tables or any other object at this time. __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Finance Tax Center - File online. File on time. http://taxes.yahoo.com/filing.html From gjgiever at yahoo.com Wed Mar 24 07:12:59 2004 From: gjgiever at yahoo.com (Gary) Date: Wed, 24 Mar 2004 05:12:59 -0800 (PST) Subject: [AccessD] Table Index In-Reply-To: <20040324130234.97577.qmail@web10504.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <20040324131259.66656.qmail@web10509.mail.yahoo.com> Forget it. I found it. Sorry about that. --- Gary wrote: > I've seen this information somewhere before but I > can't seen to locate it. > > I have an Access 97 database that gives this > message: > "Operation invalid without a current index. (Error > 3019. Set the Index, and then try the operation > again. > > Does anyone know how to go about setting an index? > I > cannot see the tables or any other object at this > time. > > __________________________________ > Do you Yahoo!? > Yahoo! Finance Tax Center - File online. File on > time. > http://taxes.yahoo.com/filing.html > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com ===== Gary To steal ideas from one person is plagiarism; to steal from many is research __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Finance Tax Center - File online. File on time. http://taxes.yahoo.com/filing.html From HollisVJ at pgdp.usec.com Wed Mar 24 07:18:01 2004 From: HollisVJ at pgdp.usec.com (Hollis,Virginia) Date: Wed, 24 Mar 2004 07:18:01 -0600 Subject: [AccessD] Table Index Message-ID: <618EB4D6DDCDD3119B0A00508B6FD37A0CB0D3DD@cntexchange.pgdp.usec.com> I know this is not the complete answer, but I have received this when the field name in the table index is named Primary Key and not the name of the field. For example, in the table design, choose View, Index, the Field Name should be the same as the Index Name. Someone else will probably have a better answer, I just know this worked for me. Virginia -----Original Message----- From: Gary [mailto:gjgiever at yahoo.com] Sent: Wednesday, March 24, 2004 7:03 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: [AccessD] Table Index I've seen this information somewhere before but I can't seen to locate it. I have an Access 97 database that gives this message: "Operation invalid without a current index. (Error 3019. Set the Index, and then try the operation again. Does anyone know how to go about setting an index? I cannot see the tables or any other object at this time. __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Finance Tax Center - File online. File on time. http://taxes.yahoo.com/filing.html -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From bheid at appdevgrp.com Wed Mar 24 07:59:14 2004 From: bheid at appdevgrp.com (Bobby Heid) Date: Wed, 24 Mar 2004 08:59:14 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Framework Discussion - Another poll In-Reply-To: <916187228923D311A6FE00A0CC3FAA307E9755@ADGSERVER> Message-ID: <916187228923D311A6FE00A0CC3FAA305BB37D@ADGSERVER> I'm not able to read the stuff yet, but I have saved everything. I am in the middle of getting ready for another point release for our client. Bobby > -----Original Message----- > From: John W. Colby [mailto:jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com] > Sent: Tuesday, March 23, 2004 10:10 PM > To: AccessD > Subject: [AccessD] Framework Discussion - Another poll > > > I need to take another poll. Would everyone following the discussion > please raise their hands. > > Thanks, > > John W. Colby > www.ColbyConsulting.com > > > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From Developer at UltraDNT.com Wed Mar 24 08:09:52 2004 From: Developer at UltraDNT.com (Developer) Date: Wed, 24 Mar 2004 09:09:52 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Framework Discussion - Another poll In-Reply-To: <916187228923D311A6FE00A0CC3FAA305BB37D@ADGSERVER> Message-ID: <000201c411a9$b333acf0$6401a8c0@COA3> Hand raised here. > -----Original Message----- > From: John W. Colby [mailto:jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com] > Sent: Tuesday, March 23, 2004 10:10 PM > To: AccessD > Subject: [AccessD] Framework Discussion - Another poll > > > I need to take another poll. Would everyone following the discussion > please raise their hands. > > Thanks, > > John W. Colby > www.ColbyConsulting.com > > > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From Developer at UltraDNT.com Wed Mar 24 08:12:55 2004 From: Developer at UltraDNT.com (Developer) Date: Wed, 24 Mar 2004 09:12:55 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] OT: Migration to SQL Server - sort of In-Reply-To: <002101c4119f$4c219cc0$9111758f@aine> Message-ID: <000301c411aa$1d158a80$6401a8c0@COA3> Not exactly migration, but biggest issue I've had lately with Access FE's to SQL 2k is that Access can't deal with GUID's. You *must* make all the queries that join on these types of fields into views because Access can't relaibly make these joins. -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Martin Reid Sent: Wednesday, March 24, 2004 7:56 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] OT: Migration to SQL Server Anything special you had to do in terms of SQL Server to assist in managing the resulting databases? for example creating admin users etc Martin ----- Original Message ----- From: "Mike & Doris Manning" To: "'Access Developers discussion and problem solving'" Sent: Wednesday, March 24, 2004 12:27 PM Subject: RE: [AccessD] OT: Migration to SQL Server > Hi Martin, > > I migrated four different Access dbs to a single instance of SQL > Server about a year ago and didn't encounter any problems. > > Doris Manning > Database Administrator > Hargrove Inc. > www.hargroveinc.com > > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Martin Reid > Sent: Tuesday, March 23, 2004 4:58 PM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: [AccessD] OT: Migration to SQL Server > > > Anyone done any work migrating SEVERAL Access dbs to a single instance > of SQL Server?? > > Particulary interested in any problems this caused etc etc > > Maybe a pointer to things to come. I have been asked to look at > several areas around this subject including building .NET Front Ends > to migrated dbs. > > Martin > > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From Developer at UltraDNT.com Wed Mar 24 08:16:55 2004 From: Developer at UltraDNT.com (Developer) Date: Wed, 24 Mar 2004 09:16:55 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Framework Discussion - set up question In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <000401c411aa$aca34430$6401a8c0@COA3> I;ve been not able to read all the mail on the FW closely for the past week, so sorry if this is a repeat. I "get" the idea, and the form scanning, but I don't see exaclty where to tell the fw that , for example, on 2 different combo's Not In List, I want combo1 to pop a form for data-entry, but combo2 to silently undo and reject the newdata. Should this be set in the Tag property? Tia, Steve From DElam at jenkens.com Wed Mar 24 08:34:58 2004 From: DElam at jenkens.com (Elam, Debbie) Date: Wed, 24 Mar 2004 08:34:58 -0600 Subject: [AccessD] Framework Discussion - Another poll Message-ID: <7B1961ED924D1A459E378C9B1BB22B4C0106BC5D@natexch.jenkens.com> Ditto Debbie -----Original Message----- From: Bobby Heid [mailto:bheid at appdevgrp.com] Sent: Wednesday, March 24, 2004 7:59 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: [AccessD] Framework Discussion - Another poll I'm not able to read the stuff yet, but I have saved everything. I am in the middle of getting ready for another point release for our client. Bobby > -----Original Message----- > From: John W. Colby [mailto:jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com] > Sent: Tuesday, March 23, 2004 10:10 PM > To: AccessD > Subject: [AccessD] Framework Discussion - Another poll > > > I need to take another poll. Would everyone following the discussion > please raise their hands. > > Thanks, > > John W. Colby > www.ColbyConsulting.com > > > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com - JENKENS & GILCHRIST E-MAIL NOTICE - This transmission may be: (1) subject to the Attorney-Client Privilege, (2) an attorney work product, or (3) strictly confidential. If you are not the intended recipient of this message, you may not disclose, print, copy or disseminate this information. If you have received this in error, please reply and notify the sender (only) and delete the message. Unauthorized interception of this e-mail is a violation of federal criminal law. This communication does not reflect an intention by the sender or the sender's client or principal to conduct a transaction or make any agreement by electronic means. Nothing contained in this message or in any attachment shall satisfy the requirements for a writing, and nothing contained herein shall constitute a contract or electronic signature under the Electronic Signatures in Global and National Commerce Act, any version of the Uniform Electronic Transactions Act or any other statute governing electronic transactions. From ggonzalez at cccis.com Wed Mar 24 08:48:07 2004 From: ggonzalez at cccis.com (ggonzalez at cccis.com) Date: Wed, 24 Mar 2004 08:48:07 -0600 Subject: [AccessD] IP Telephony WAS Not enough space on disk In-Reply-To: Message-ID: John, I am currently doing some research on IP telephony to use in some of my applications, is there any websites and or books you can recommend. Thanks, Gumaro "John Clark" .com> cc: Sent by: Subject: Re: [AccessD] Not enough space on disk. accessd-bounces at databasea dvisors.com 03/23/2004 12:54 PM Please respond to Access Developers discussion and problem solving I suspected you might have Novell. I help to administer our Novell network, along with IP telephony and Access programming, and I get asked to increase a user's space restrictions quite often--especially when one of our techs go to the PC and remain logged in as the user. Take care! John W Clark >>> ggonzalez at cccis.com 3/22/2004 3:05:04 PM >>> Yes, Novel is the NOS. It seems that is the problem. Even though I was trying to access local databases the security file that I use is on the network. when I changed the security file locally everything worked fine, I then requested more space on the network and all worked there also. Thanks to everyone for their help. "John Clark" .com> cc: Sent by: Subject: Re: [AccessD] Not enough space on disk. accessd-bounces at databasea dvisors.com 03/22/2004 12:35 PM Please respond to Access Developers discussion and problem solving Are you running on a network at all? If so, what NOS? And, if so, are you logged in as yourself, on the other PCs? >>> ggonzalez at cccis.com 3/22/2004 1:27:01 PM >>> I have tried rebooting and several of the options in the Microsoft knowledge base to no avail. Thanks |---------+------------------------------------> | | Francisco H Tapia | | | | | | Sent by: | | | accessd-bounces at databasea| | | dvisors.com | | | | | | | | | 03/22/2004 12:22 PM | | | Please respond to Access | | | Developers discussion and| | | problem solving | |---------+------------------------------------> >---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------| | | | To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving | | cc: | | Subject: Re: [AccessD] Not enough space on disk. | >---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------| try a reboot like suggested by Gary Kjos, additonally what OS is this running on? win95/98/ME/nt/2k/xp? ggonzalez at cccis.com wrote: > > >I have 3 Gig and 256 of ram > > > > > >How much hdd space is available on your C: for the computer that gets >this error?, how much ram does it have? > > >ggonzalez at cccis.com wrote: > > > >>I am gettin getting this error when I try to open a database on my >>computer. I have plenty od disk space available though. When I go to >>another computer and access the same database I have no problem. >> >>Does anybody have any sugestions why this is happening. >> >>Thanks, Gumaro >> >> >> >> >> > > > > <>-- -Francisco -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From ggonzalez at cccis.com Wed Mar 24 08:55:55 2004 From: ggonzalez at cccis.com (ggonzalez at cccis.com) Date: Wed, 24 Mar 2004 08:55:55 -0600 Subject: [AccessD] Framework Discussion - Another poll In-Reply-To: <001201c41173$6ab5ff40$4915fa51@linceow2000pro> Message-ID: I am From kevinb at bepc.com Wed Mar 24 08:49:49 2004 From: kevinb at bepc.com (Kevin Bachmeier) Date: Wed, 24 Mar 2004 08:49:49 -0600 Subject: [AccessD] Framework Discussion - Another poll Message-ID: I am following. -----Original Message----- From: John W. Colby [mailto:jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com] Sent: Wednesday, March 24, 2004 12:10 AM To: AccessD Subject: [AccessD] Framework Discussion - Another poll I need to take another poll. Would everyone following the discussion please raise their hands. Thanks, John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From nanette.j.gould at Vanderbilt.Edu Wed Mar 24 09:04:06 2004 From: nanette.j.gould at Vanderbilt.Edu (Gould, Nanette) Date: Wed, 24 Mar 2004 09:04:06 -0600 Subject: [AccessD] Framework Discussion - Another poll Message-ID: <7AAEB4CF230ABE41A01BEE6470DC407D15071F@mailbe01> What he said, except for the new job part ... Nanette -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Stoker, Kenneth E Sent: Wednesday, March 24, 2004 12:29 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] Framework Discussion - Another poll Here, Here. I am not reading as closely at the moment, right in the middle of transitioning to a new job, but I am saving everything that even hints at the framework discussion religiously. Ken Stoker From Patricia.O'Connor at DFA.STATE.NY.US Wed Mar 24 09:11:05 2004 From: Patricia.O'Connor at DFA.STATE.NY.US (O'Connor, Patricia ) Date: Wed, 24 Mar 2004 10:11:05 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Framework Discussion - Another poll Message-ID: Keeping all the related mails in a special folder and reading as I can. Thanks so much for doing this John. Patti > -----Original Message----- > From: John W. Colby [mailto:jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com] > Sent: Wednesday, March 24, 2004 01:10 AM > To: AccessD > Subject: [AccessD] Framework Discussion - Another poll > > > I need to take another poll. Would everyone following the > discussion please > raise their hands. > > Thanks, > > John W. Colby > www.ColbyConsulting.com > > > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > From serbach at new.rr.com Wed Mar 24 09:28:56 2004 From: serbach at new.rr.com (Steven W. Erbach) Date: Wed, 24 Mar 2004 09:28:56 -0600 Subject: [AccessD] Framework Discussion - Another poll Message-ID: <20040324092856.1587244701.serbach@new.rr.com> John, http://www.swerbach.com/serbach/pickme.htm Regards, Steve Erbach Scientific Marketing Neenah, WI 920-969-0504 "Don't light a match 'til ya know which end of the dog is barkin'." - Dave Barry From James at fcidms.com Wed Mar 24 09:46:26 2004 From: James at fcidms.com (James Barash) Date: Wed, 24 Mar 2004 10:46:26 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Framework Discussion - Another poll In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <200403241546.KAA14016@twister.bcentralhost.com> It's very hard to type with one hand in the air. James Barash > -----Original Message----- > From: John W. Colby [mailto:jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com] > Sent: Wednesday, March 24, 2004 01:10 AM > To: AccessD > Subject: [AccessD] Framework Discussion - Another poll > > > I need to take another poll. Would everyone following the > discussion please > raise their hands. > > Thanks, > > John W. Colby > www.ColbyConsulting.com > > > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From john at winhaven.net Wed Mar 24 09:46:38 2004 From: john at winhaven.net (John Bartow) Date: Wed, 24 Mar 2004 09:46:38 -0600 Subject: [AccessD] Framework Discussion - Another poll In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Hi John: Right now I'm in catch-up mode but I am following it. Thanks! John B. -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of John W. Colby Sent: Wednesday, March 24, 2004 12:10 AM To: AccessD Subject: [AccessD] Framework Discussion - Another poll I need to take another poll. Would everyone following the discussion please raise their hands. Thanks, John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From garykjos at hotmail.com Wed Mar 24 09:47:33 2004 From: garykjos at hotmail.com (Gary Kjos) Date: Wed, 24 Mar 2004 09:47:33 -0600 Subject: [AccessD] Framework Discussion - Another poll Message-ID: Hand raised. Kind of anyway. Not able to look at the examples you are doing John but I have been reading most of the posts. Gary Kjos garykjos at hotmail.com >From: "John W. Colby" >Reply-To: Access Developers discussion and problem >solving >To: "AccessD" >Subject: [AccessD] Framework Discussion - Another poll >Date: Wed, 24 Mar 2004 01:10:04 -0500 > >I need to take another poll. Would everyone following the discussion >please >raise their hands. > >Thanks, > >John W. Colby >www.ColbyConsulting.com > > >-- >_______________________________________________ >AccessD mailing list >AccessD at databaseadvisors.com >http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd >Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com _________________________________________________________________ Get reliable access on MSN 9 Dial-up. 3 months for the price of 1! (Limited-time offer) http://join.msn.com/?page=dept/dialup&pgmarket=en-us&ST=1/go/onm00200361ave/direct/01/ From cfoust at infostatsystems.com Wed Mar 24 10:03:19 2004 From: cfoust at infostatsystems.com (Charlotte Foust) Date: Wed, 24 Mar 2004 08:03:19 -0800 Subject: [AccessD] Find FE Path? Message-ID: It became available in Access 2000. Charlotte Foust -----Original Message----- From: David Emerson [mailto:davide at dalyn.co.nz] Sent: Wednesday, March 24, 2004 1:26 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Find FE Path? Sander, You can try CurrentProject.Path (not sure which version of Access this was added to). Regards David Emerson Dalyn Software Ltd 25 Cunliffe St, Churton Park Wellington, New Zealand Ph/Fax 0064 4 478-7456 At 24/03/2004, you wrote: >Hi group, > >how can I figure out from wich path the FE was started? >I know how to find the BE path, but how can find the FE? > >Regards, > >Sander > >Do you Yahoo!? >Yahoo! Finance Tax Center - File online. File on time. >-- >_______________________________________________ >AccessD mailing list >AccessD at databaseadvisors.com >http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd >Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From cfoust at infostatsystems.com Wed Mar 24 10:38:06 2004 From: cfoust at infostatsystems.com (Charlotte Foust) Date: Wed, 24 Mar 2004 08:38:06 -0800 Subject: [AccessD] determining the datatype of a bound control Message-ID: John, This will do it if your form's recordsource is a table Dim strCtlSrc As String Dim strDataSrc As String Dim rst As ADODB.Recordset Dim intType As Integer strDataSrc = Me.RecordSource strCtlSrc = txtDOB.ControlSource Set rst = New ADODB.Recordset rst.Open strDataSrc , CurrentProject.Connection, , , adCmdTable intType = rst.Fields(strCtlSrc).Type Assuming the underlying field is a date, this will return a 7, which is adDate Charlotte Foust -----Original Message----- From: John W. Colby [mailto:jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com] Sent: Tuesday, March 23, 2004 12:08 PM To: AccessD Subject: [AccessD] determining the datatype of a bound control I currently determine the data type of the data that a control is displaying by the following code: Dim strCtlSrc As String Dim rst As DAO.Recordset Dim intType As Integer strCtlSrc = txtDOB.ControlSource Set rst = Me.RecordsetClone intType = rst.Fields(strCtlSrc).Type Is there a similar method of getting at this from ADO? John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From my.lists at verizon.net Wed Mar 24 10:39:40 2004 From: my.lists at verizon.net (Francisco H Tapia) Date: Wed, 24 Mar 2004 08:39:40 -0800 Subject: [AccessD] Framework Discussion - Another poll In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <4061B9CC.7080807@verizon.net> John W. Colby wrote: >I need to take another poll. Would everyone following the discussion please >raise their hands. > >Thanks, > >John W. Colby >www.ColbyConsulting.com > > > > you want me replying to your message too while I raise my hands ;) -- -Francisco From mikedorism at adelphia.net Wed Mar 24 10:52:41 2004 From: mikedorism at adelphia.net (Mike & Doris Manning) Date: Wed, 24 Mar 2004 11:52:41 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] OT: Migration to SQL Server In-Reply-To: <002101c4119f$4c219cc0$9111758f@aine> Message-ID: <000001c411c0$6c0caea0$c4194244@hargrove.internal> No. We are just beginning to define user groups now so I didn't really have to go into the security settings that much. Doris Manning Database Administrator Hargrove Inc. www.hargroveinc.com -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Martin Reid Sent: Wednesday, March 24, 2004 7:56 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] OT: Migration to SQL Server Anything special you had to do in terms of SQL Server to assist in managing the resulting databases? for example creating admin users etc Martin ----- Original Message ----- From: "Mike & Doris Manning" To: "'Access Developers discussion and problem solving'" Sent: Wednesday, March 24, 2004 12:27 PM Subject: RE: [AccessD] OT: Migration to SQL Server > Hi Martin, > > I migrated four different Access dbs to a single instance of SQL > Server about a year ago and didn't encounter any problems. > > Doris Manning > Database Administrator > Hargrove Inc. > www.hargroveinc.com > > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Martin Reid > Sent: Tuesday, March 23, 2004 4:58 PM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: [AccessD] OT: Migration to SQL Server > > > Anyone done any work migrating SEVERAL Access dbs to a single instance > of SQL Server?? > > Particulary interested in any problems this caused etc etc > > Maybe a pointer to things to come. I have been asked to look at > several areas around this subject including building .NET Front Ends > to migrated dbs. > > Martin > > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From gustav at cactus.dk Wed Mar 24 10:56:07 2004 From: gustav at cactus.dk (Gustav Brock) Date: Wed, 24 Mar 2004 17:56:07 +0100 Subject: [AccessD] OT: Migration to SQL Server - sort of In-Reply-To: <000301c411aa$1d158a80$6401a8c0@COA3> References: <000301c411aa$1d158a80$6401a8c0@COA3> Message-ID: <14734779490.20040324175607@cactus.dk> Hi Developer How's that? Aren't GUIDs, at the table level, nothing more than strings? /gustav > Not exactly migration, but biggest issue I've had lately with Access > FE's to SQL 2k is that Access can't deal with GUID's. You *must* make > all the queries that join on these types of fields into views because > Access can't relaibly make these joins. From donald.a.Mcgillivray at mail.sprint.com Wed Mar 24 10:57:46 2004 From: donald.a.Mcgillivray at mail.sprint.com (Mcgillivray, Donald [ITS]) Date: Wed, 24 Mar 2004 10:57:46 -0600 Subject: [AccessD] Framework Discussion - Another poll Message-ID: <6FC1C7A6E7BD5540AB0A8436713C43BF0791E173@PKDWB01C.ad.sprint.com> Present. Don McGillivray From jwelz at hotmail.com Wed Mar 24 11:24:03 2004 From: jwelz at hotmail.com (Jürgen Welz) Date: Wed, 24 Mar 2004 10:24:03 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] Framework Discussion - Another poll Message-ID: I read most posts at this list including those by John Colby as it is usually possible to learn from others' trials and tribulations. I think it would have been appropriate to place a no archive in the original post for those who hit 'Reply'. Why a second poll? These look like 'me too' in my inbox and as gratifying as that may be to John, I would propose to moderators that responses to polls should require the no archive term in the body of either the poll or responses. Ciao J?rgen Welz Edmonton, Alberta jwelz at hotmail.com _________________________________________________________________ MSN Premium includes powerful parental controls and get 2 months FREE* http://join.msn.com/?pgmarket=en-ca&page=byoa/prem&xAPID=1994&DI=1034&SU=http://hotmail.com/enca&HL=Market_MSNIS_Taglines From Developer at UltraDNT.com Wed Mar 24 11:30:55 2004 From: Developer at UltraDNT.com (Developer) Date: Wed, 24 Mar 2004 12:30:55 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] OT: Migration to SQL Server - sort of In-Reply-To: <14734779490.20040324175607@cactus.dk> Message-ID: <003401c411c5$c6868270$6401a8c0@COA3> Yes, they are but, specifically, on an Access-2K2 FE to SQL-2K BE, I had a customer table, and I wanted a result set with 4 different FK's joined in, to see the "friendly" names of the customer properties (region, business type, etc.). This inherited database had guid's for primary keys in everything, even these nearly-static tables like business type. The Access query (joining the linked tables) had nulls in many of the cells, but returned the right data in some places, while a view I created on the server correctly filled in all the data. I did NO investigation on it, I just linked to the view and went on with life! Steve -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Gustav Brock Sent: Wednesday, March 24, 2004 11:56 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] OT: Migration to SQL Server - sort of Hi Developer How's that? Aren't GUIDs, at the table level, nothing more than strings? /gustav > Not exactly migration, but biggest issue I've had lately with Access > FE's to SQL 2k is that Access can't deal with GUID's. You *must* make > all the queries that join on these types of fields into views because > Access can't relaibly make these joins. -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From john at winhaven.net Wed Mar 24 11:37:36 2004 From: john at winhaven.net (John Bartow) Date: Wed, 24 Mar 2004 11:37:36 -0600 Subject: [AccessD] Framework Discussion - Another poll In-Reply-To: Message-ID: J?rgen is correct I should have responded directly to John, sorry J?rgen, etal! I can see John's point of asking as this takes a lot of time and there hasn't been all that much discussion on certain parts lately so it begs to ask "is it worth him continuing the series". I think that it definitely is and next time he needs to reaffirm that I hope I remember to reply directly to him. John B. -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of J?rgen Welz Sent: Wednesday, March 24, 2004 11:24 AM To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: RE: [AccessD] Framework Discussion - Another poll I read most posts at this list including those by John Colby as it is usually possible to learn from others' trials and tribulations. I think it would have been appropriate to place a no archive in the original post for those who hit 'Reply'. Why a second poll? These look like 'me too' in my inbox and as gratifying as that may be to John, I would propose to moderators that responses to polls should require the no archive term in the body of either the poll or responses. Ciao J?rgen Welz Edmonton, Alberta jwelz at hotmail.com _________________________________________________________________ MSN Premium includes powerful parental controls and get 2 months FREE* http://join.msn.com/?pgmarket=en-ca&page=byoa/prem&xAPID=1994&DI=1034&SU=htt p://hotmail.com/enca&HL=Market_MSNIS_Taglines -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From cfoust at infostatsystems.com Wed Mar 24 11:58:51 2004 From: cfoust at infostatsystems.com (Charlotte Foust) Date: Wed, 24 Mar 2004 09:58:51 -0800 Subject: [AccessD] OT: Migration to SQL Server - sort of Message-ID: They're something more than strings, Gustav. I've worked with them in Access and frankly, it wasn't worth the effort, so I abandoned them. Of course Access can deal with GUIDs, since that is what replication uses. It just ain't pretty and requires a LOT of coding and work. You can't do simple comparisons on them, and they're generally painful. Charlotte Foust -----Original Message----- From: Gustav Brock [mailto:gustav at cactus.dk] Sent: Wednesday, March 24, 2004 8:56 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] OT: Migration to SQL Server - sort of Hi Developer How's that? Aren't GUIDs, at the table level, nothing more than strings? /gustav > Not exactly migration, but biggest issue I've had lately with Access > FE's to SQL 2k is that Access can't deal with GUID's. You *must* make > all the queries that join on these types of fields into views because > Access can't relaibly make these joins. -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From Bryan_Carbonnell at cbc.ca Wed Mar 24 11:51:20 2004 From: Bryan_Carbonnell at cbc.ca (Bryan Carbonnell) Date: Wed, 24 Mar 2004 12:51:20 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Framework Discussion - Another poll Message-ID: Actually there is absolutely no reason to add no archive. It does nothing except take up more space. "No Archive" or no "No Archive" it still ends up in the DBA archive. Drew's archive may be different. However, the replys really should have gone to John directly, IMpersonalO. Bryan Carbonnell bryan_carbonnell at cbc.ca Your friendly listmaster at work. >>> jwelz at hotmail.com 24-Mar-04 12:24:03 PM >>> I read most posts at this list including those by John Colby as it is usually possible to learn from others' trials and tribulations. I think it would have been appropriate to place a no archive in the original post for those who hit 'Reply'. Why a second poll? These look like 'me too' in my inbox and as gratifying as that may be to John, I would propose to moderators that responses to polls should require the no archive term in the body of either the poll or responses. From DWUTKA at marlow.com Wed Mar 24 12:52:58 2004 From: DWUTKA at marlow.com (DWUTKA at marlow.com) Date: Wed, 24 Mar 2004 12:52:58 -0600 Subject: [AccessD] VBE Error Handler Message-ID: <2F8793082E00D4119A1700B0D0216BF8022279A9@main2.marlow.com> Okay, before I get volunteered for a new project, what exactly are we trying to accomplish. Only been eyeballing the threads lately.... Drew -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of John W. Colby Sent: Wednesday, March 24, 2004 6:23 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] VBE Error Handler >grmbl. Yea, I understand. Unfortunately I am not a VB kind of guy. I "wrote" the original but it was in Access. I don't event own VB (non .NET version anyway). You might beg and plead with Drew Wutka. He is very handy with VB and loves a challenge. It would also give him a chance to get up to his elbows in my old code and moan about it. I know Seth moaned a bit. John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of S D Sent: Wednesday, March 24, 2004 1:33 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] VBE Error Handler grmbl. A pitty. I think I'm going to try using you're error handler and some copy/paste/replace stuff...or copy it into a textfile and write a litte prog to do the replacing. Thanks anyway. Sander PS: A couple of weeks back I saw my first MS-Access 2.0 app from 1995 or so....oi, PS1 was not completely applicable but....although normalization was correct and it still works like a charm :-) "John W. Colby" wrote: LOL to the whole message!!! In particular the PS1: I feel for you, but with any luck it will generate prodigious revenue as you clean it up. The error handler wizard is in VB and is under the care of Seth Galitzer. This sounds like a very custom mod which you would probably have to make. John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of S D Sent: Tuesday, March 23, 2004 9:34 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] VBE Error Handler We use a VB function to create a standard message. We use this in all (500+) applications. I don't won't to break the line of work. Problem is we enherited a HUGE Access app (250+ tables, 300+ forms, 7(!?!) modules) So we've got the following line in all our error handling: Call GenErr("Switchdatabase.Form_Startscherm", "Form_Load") TIA Sander PS1: according to the programmer of this beast: - 'normalization'? What's that, a snack? - a function is never used more then once - dim a, b, c as string creates 3 strings.... - dim blnError as String blnError = "0" blnError = "1" blnError = "incorrect" aaahhhhrg..... "John W. Colby" wrote: In short, it is not "programmable". The message the user gets is the native Access error plus the function / module name. What did you have in mind? John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of S D Sent: Tuesday, March 23, 2004 8:20 AM To: accessd Subject: [AccessD] VBE Error Handler Hi group, i downloaded the VBE Error Handler dll from www.databaseadvisors written by John Colby. I really love this program....almost. It works great however I want to change the message that the user gets. Is that possible? Thnx in advance. Regards Sander Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Finance Tax Center - File online. File on time. -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Finance Tax Center - File online. File on time. -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Finance Tax Center - File online. File on time. -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From rl_stewart at highstream.net Wed Mar 24 12:57:54 2004 From: rl_stewart at highstream.net (Robert L. Stewart) Date: Wed, 24 Mar 2004 12:57:54 -0600 Subject: [AccessD] Re: Migration to SQL Server In-Reply-To: <200403240532.i2O5WnM20775@databaseadvisors.com> Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20040324125248.0298c200@pop3.highstream.net> Martin, Been there, done that. Make sure you use a number of file groups and that the tables are split between them. This will give you better performance because a thread is opened whenever SQL Server has to go to another file group for another table. Make sure you rename primary keys and indexes in SQL Server to whatever standard you setup. Use the Diagram tool to create "subject areas" so you can easily see relationships instead of having to navigate all the tables. Be ready to change the queries that you use to views to increase performance. Robert At 11:32 PM 3/23/2004 -0600, you wrote: >Date: Tue, 23 Mar 2004 21:58:02 -0000 >From: "Martin Reid" >Subject: [AccessD] OT: Migration to SQL Server >To: "Access Developers discussion and problem solving" > >Message-ID: <005101c41121$eaed9c10$1b02a8c0 at MARTINREID> >Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" > >Anyone done any work migrating SEVERAL Access dbs to a single instance of >SQL Server?? > >Particulary interested in any problems this caused etc etc > >Maybe a pointer to things to come. I have been asked to look at several >areas around this subject including building .NET Front Ends to migrated >dbs. > >Martin From DWUTKA at marlow.com Wed Mar 24 13:12:36 2004 From: DWUTKA at marlow.com (DWUTKA at marlow.com) Date: Wed, 24 Mar 2004 13:12:36 -0600 Subject: [AccessD] Framework Discussion - Another poll Message-ID: <2F8793082E00D4119A1700B0D0216BF8022279AA@main2.marlow.com> I was JUST going to ask that. I didn't know what the site was doing, as far as the 'new' archives. My archives don't care what you put in your posts. It archives and indexes every message that comes through. The only two issues with my archives are posts that come in as attachments (my code doesn't go through attachments, it's a pain), and if you have words that are more then 255 characters long. (Let's not try that, because I would just have to go in and delete the post.) Drew -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Bryan Carbonnell Sent: Wednesday, March 24, 2004 11:51 AM To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: RE: [AccessD] Framework Discussion - Another poll Actually there is absolutely no reason to add no archive. It does nothing except take up more space. "No Archive" or no "No Archive" it still ends up in the DBA archive. Drew's archive may be different. However, the replys really should have gone to John directly, IMpersonalO. Bryan Carbonnell bryan_carbonnell at cbc.ca Your friendly listmaster at work. >>> jwelz at hotmail.com 24-Mar-04 12:24:03 PM >>> I read most posts at this list including those by John Colby as it is usually possible to learn from others' trials and tribulations. I think it would have been appropriate to place a no archive in the original post for those who hit 'Reply'. Why a second poll? These look like 'me too' in my inbox and as gratifying as that may be to John, I would propose to moderators that responses to polls should require the no archive term in the body of either the poll or responses. -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From doug at murphyscreativity.com Wed Mar 24 13:14:21 2004 From: doug at murphyscreativity.com (Doug Murphy) Date: Wed, 24 Mar 2004 11:14:21 -0800 Subject: [AccessD] VBE Error Handler In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <003501c411d4$36785050$8500a8c0@CX615377a> MZ Tools has a pretty nice error handler insertion feature. The handler is customizable. Works in all versions of Access from 2000 on. Doug -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of John W. Colby Sent: Wednesday, March 24, 2004 4:23 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] VBE Error Handler >grmbl. Yea, I understand. Unfortunately I am not a VB kind of guy. I "wrote" the original but it was in Access. I don't event own VB (non .NET version anyway). You might beg and plead with Drew Wutka. He is very handy with VB and loves a challenge. It would also give him a chance to get up to his elbows in my old code and moan about it. I know Seth moaned a bit. John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of S D Sent: Wednesday, March 24, 2004 1:33 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] VBE Error Handler grmbl. A pitty. I think I'm going to try using you're error handler and some copy/paste/replace stuff...or copy it into a textfile and write a litte prog to do the replacing. Thanks anyway. Sander PS: A couple of weeks back I saw my first MS-Access 2.0 app from 1995 or so....oi, PS1 was not completely applicable but....although normalization was correct and it still works like a charm :-) "John W. Colby" wrote: LOL to the whole message!!! In particular the PS1: I feel for you, but with any luck it will generate prodigious revenue as you clean it up. The error handler wizard is in VB and is under the care of Seth Galitzer. This sounds like a very custom mod which you would probably have to make. John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of S D Sent: Tuesday, March 23, 2004 9:34 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] VBE Error Handler We use a VB function to create a standard message. We use this in all (500+) applications. I don't won't to break the line of work. Problem is we enherited a HUGE Access app (250+ tables, 300+ forms, 7(!?!) modules) So we've got the following line in all our error handling: Call GenErr("Switchdatabase.Form_Startscherm", "Form_Load") TIA Sander PS1: according to the programmer of this beast: - 'normalization'? What's that, a snack? - a function is never used more then once - dim a, b, c as string creates 3 strings.... - dim blnError as String blnError = "0" blnError = "1" blnError = "incorrect" aaahhhhrg..... "John W. Colby" wrote: In short, it is not "programmable". The message the user gets is the native Access error plus the function / module name. What did you have in mind? John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of S D Sent: Tuesday, March 23, 2004 8:20 AM To: accessd Subject: [AccessD] VBE Error Handler Hi group, i downloaded the VBE Error Handler dll from www.databaseadvisors written by John Colby. I really love this program....almost. It works great however I want to change the message that the user gets. Is that possible? Thnx in advance. Regards Sander Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Finance Tax Center - File online. File on time. -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Finance Tax Center - File online. File on time. -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Finance Tax Center - File online. File on time. -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From rl_stewart at highstream.net Wed Mar 24 13:40:59 2004 From: rl_stewart at highstream.net (Robert L. Stewart) Date: Wed, 24 Mar 2004 13:40:59 -0600 Subject: [AccessD] Re: Framework Discussion - Another poll In-Reply-To: <200403241407.i2OE79M00548@databaseadvisors.com> Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20040324134043.029c64f0@pop3.highstream.net> Hand raised. At 08:07 AM 3/24/2004 -0600, you wrote: >Date: Wed, 24 Mar 2004 01:10:04 -0500 >From: "John W. Colby" >Subject: [AccessD] Framework Discussion - Another poll >To: "AccessD" >Message-ID: >Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" > >I need to take another poll. Would everyone following the discussion please >raise their hands. > >Thanks, > >John W. Colby >www.ColbyConsulting.com From Bryan_Carbonnell at cbc.ca Wed Mar 24 13:47:18 2004 From: Bryan_Carbonnell at cbc.ca (Bryan Carbonnell) Date: Wed, 24 Mar 2004 14:47:18 -0500 Subject: List and Archive Details was (RE: [AccessD] Framework Discussion - Another poll) Message-ID: The dba archives everything that makes it to the list. Everything. I suppose if I knew Python I could hack the code and have it check for the words "No Archive" and not archive it. Since I don't know Python, I can't see it happening anytime soon :) You should only have one issue, with your archive then. The list software is set to strip ALL attachments and reduce HTML posts to plain text. ANd if someone has a word that is longer than 255 characters, they have have more pressing issues than archiving it :-)) Bryan Carbonnell bryan_carbonnell at cbc.ca Your neighbourhood listmaster at work. >>> DWUTKA at marlow.com 24-Mar-04 2:12:36 PM >>> I was JUST going to ask that. I didn't know what the site was doing, as far as the 'new' archives. My archives don't care what you put in your posts. It archives and indexes every message that comes through. The only two issues with my archives are posts that come in as attachments (my code doesn't go through attachments, it's a pain), and if you have words that are more then 255 characters long. (Let's not try that, because I would just have to go in and delete the post.) Drew -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Bryan Carbonnell Sent: Wednesday, March 24, 2004 11:51 AM To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: RE: [AccessD] Framework Discussion - Another poll Actually there is absolutely no reason to add no archive. It does nothing except take up more space. "No Archive" or no "No Archive" it still ends up in the DBA archive. Drew's archive may be different. However, the replys really should have gone to John directly, IMpersonalO. Bryan Carbonnell bryan_carbonnell at cbc.ca Your friendly listmaster at work. From jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com Wed Mar 24 14:20:25 2004 From: jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com (John W. Colby) Date: Wed, 24 Mar 2004 15:20:25 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Framework Discussion - Another poll In-Reply-To: <20040324092856.1587244701.serbach@new.rr.com> Message-ID: ROTFL!!! John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Steven W. Erbach Sent: Wednesday, March 24, 2004 10:29 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Framework Discussion - Another poll John, http://www.swerbach.com/serbach/pickme.htm Regards, Steve Erbach Scientific Marketing Neenah, WI 920-969-0504 "Don't light a match 'til ya know which end of the dog is barkin'." - Dave Barry -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com Wed Mar 24 14:23:35 2004 From: jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com (John W. Colby) Date: Wed, 24 Mar 2004 15:23:35 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] determining the datatype of a bound control In-Reply-To: Message-ID: This is cool. Mil Gracias. Since you responded, is there any way to do the RecordsetClone thing in ADO? John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Charlotte Foust Sent: Wednesday, March 24, 2004 11:38 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] determining the datatype of a bound control John, This will do it if your form's recordsource is a table Dim strCtlSrc As String Dim strDataSrc As String Dim rst As ADODB.Recordset Dim intType As Integer strDataSrc = Me.RecordSource strCtlSrc = txtDOB.ControlSource Set rst = New ADODB.Recordset rst.Open strDataSrc , CurrentProject.Connection, , , adCmdTable intType = rst.Fields(strCtlSrc).Type Assuming the underlying field is a date, this will return a 7, which is adDate Charlotte Foust -----Original Message----- From: John W. Colby [mailto:jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com] Sent: Tuesday, March 23, 2004 12:08 PM To: AccessD Subject: [AccessD] determining the datatype of a bound control I currently determine the data type of the data that a control is displaying by the following code: Dim strCtlSrc As String Dim rst As DAO.Recordset Dim intType As Integer strCtlSrc = txtDOB.ControlSource Set rst = Me.RecordsetClone intType = rst.Fields(strCtlSrc).Type Is there a similar method of getting at this from ADO? John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com Wed Mar 24 14:51:20 2004 From: jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com (John W. Colby) Date: Wed, 24 Mar 2004 15:51:20 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] determining the datatype of a bound control In-Reply-To: Message-ID: I just got the "if it's a table" part. That's not so nice since many forms are bound to queries. John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Charlotte Foust Sent: Wednesday, March 24, 2004 11:38 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] determining the datatype of a bound control John, This will do it if your form's recordsource is a table Dim strCtlSrc As String Dim strDataSrc As String Dim rst As ADODB.Recordset Dim intType As Integer strDataSrc = Me.RecordSource strCtlSrc = txtDOB.ControlSource Set rst = New ADODB.Recordset rst.Open strDataSrc , CurrentProject.Connection, , , adCmdTable intType = rst.Fields(strCtlSrc).Type Assuming the underlying field is a date, this will return a 7, which is adDate Charlotte Foust -----Original Message----- From: John W. Colby [mailto:jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com] Sent: Tuesday, March 23, 2004 12:08 PM To: AccessD Subject: [AccessD] determining the datatype of a bound control I currently determine the data type of the data that a control is displaying by the following code: Dim strCtlSrc As String Dim rst As DAO.Recordset Dim intType As Integer strCtlSrc = txtDOB.ControlSource Set rst = Me.RecordsetClone intType = rst.Fields(strCtlSrc).Type Is there a similar method of getting at this from ADO? John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com Wed Mar 24 15:31:23 2004 From: jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com (John W. Colby) Date: Wed, 24 Mar 2004 16:31:23 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Framework Discussion - Another poll In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Sorry Jurgen, the last poll had about 10-15 responses and I expected less this time. I'm just trying to figure out whether to keep going on this series. Of course I should have requested responses off line. John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of J?rgen Welz Sent: Wednesday, March 24, 2004 12:24 PM To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: RE: [AccessD] Framework Discussion - Another poll I read most posts at this list including those by John Colby as it is usually possible to learn from others' trials and tribulations. I think it would have been appropriate to place a no archive in the original post for those who hit 'Reply'. Why a second poll? These look like 'me too' in my inbox and as gratifying as that may be to John, I would propose to moderators that responses to polls should require the no archive term in the body of either the poll or responses. Ciao J?rgen Welz Edmonton, Alberta jwelz at hotmail.com _________________________________________________________________ MSN Premium includes powerful parental controls and get 2 months FREE* http://join.msn.com/?pgmarket=en-ca&page=byoa/prem&xAPID=1994&DI=1034&SU=htt p://hotmail.com/enca&HL=Market_MSNIS_Taglines -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From DWUTKA at marlow.com Wed Mar 24 15:45:10 2004 From: DWUTKA at marlow.com (DWUTKA at marlow.com) Date: Wed, 24 Mar 2004 15:45:10 -0600 Subject: [AccessD] Framework Discussion - Another poll Message-ID: <2F8793082E00D4119A1700B0D0216BF8022279B0@main2.marlow.com> John, what you are doing is definitely GOOD for AccessD. Posts don't always have to be Q & A. Just plain informative stuff is great reading and can come in quite handy. How many times have you been hitting your head against the wall, wondering how to tackle a problem? I mean, no clue where to start, and no clue what to even ask anyone. Then you read something that you think is unrelated, but it turns out to either nail the problem down, or at least give you a foot hold to start working the issue. I didn't 'raise my hand', because quite frankly I have only been scanning your posts. I understand everything, and use most of the same concepts in my own stuff. I'm just scanning for ideas I might want to implement. Drew -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of John W. Colby Sent: Wednesday, March 24, 2004 3:31 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] Framework Discussion - Another poll Sorry Jurgen, the last poll had about 10-15 responses and I expected less this time. I'm just trying to figure out whether to keep going on this series. Of course I should have requested responses off line. John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of J?rgen Welz Sent: Wednesday, March 24, 2004 12:24 PM To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: RE: [AccessD] Framework Discussion - Another poll I read most posts at this list including those by John Colby as it is usually possible to learn from others' trials and tribulations. I think it would have been appropriate to place a no archive in the original post for those who hit 'Reply'. Why a second poll? These look like 'me too' in my inbox and as gratifying as that may be to John, I would propose to moderators that responses to polls should require the no archive term in the body of either the poll or responses. Ciao J?rgen Welz Edmonton, Alberta jwelz at hotmail.com _________________________________________________________________ MSN Premium includes powerful parental controls and get 2 months FREE* http://join.msn.com/?pgmarket=en-ca&page=byoa/prem&xAPID=1994&DI=1034&SU=htt p://hotmail.com/enca&HL=Market_MSNIS_Taglines -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From artful at rogers.com Wed Mar 24 18:44:34 2004 From: artful at rogers.com (Arthur Fuller) Date: Wed, 24 Mar 2004 16:44:34 -0800 Subject: [AccessD] Bind Data Entry Form to Table In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <01e201c41202$5de85bc0$6501a8c0@rock> In my experience, there is no down side to doing this. Nor to a query that looks up some related fields in the same model. Arthur -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Bryan Carbonnell Sent: Tuesday, March 23, 2004 12:17 PM To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: [AccessD] Bind Data Entry Form to Table Is there a downside to binding a Data Entry Only Form to a table instead of a query? I have a form (subform of an unbound form actually) that will be used strictly for Data Entry and I was thinking of binding it to the table directly instead of through a query. The only downside that I can think of is that I won't be able to sort the recordsource, but since its DE only, that doesn't matter. Is there anyreason I shouldn't do it like this? Bryan Carbonnell bryan_carbonnell at cbc.ca -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From KIsmert at TexasSystems.com Wed Mar 24 15:53:15 2004 From: KIsmert at TexasSystems.com (Ken Ismert) Date: Wed, 24 Mar 2004 15:53:15 -0600 Subject: [AccessD] Framework Discussion - Another poll In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <007201c411ea$699f3f00$2a3ca8c0@TEXASSYSTEMS.COM> IO'M HJERRE!q!q!q HJAZRED TOL TYPED WITH JKUST EL.BOWSSX I'm here!!! (hard to type with just elbows) -Ken -----Original Message----- From: John W. Colby [mailto:jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com] Sent: Wednesday, March 24, 2004 12:10 AM To: AccessD Subject: [AccessD] Framework Discussion - Another poll I need to take another poll. Would everyone following the discussion please raise their hands. Thanks, John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com From Patricia.O'Connor at DFA.STATE.NY.US Wed Mar 24 15:53:36 2004 From: Patricia.O'Connor at DFA.STATE.NY.US (O'Connor, Patricia ) Date: Wed, 24 Mar 2004 16:53:36 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] VBE Error Handler - MZ_TOOLS Message-ID: Does MZ_TOOL's error handler - handle connection errors or just regular access errors? I know I could download the tool - but would rather know if it was worth it beforehand. Besides the error handler is there other things in this tool that make it worthwhile Thanks Patti example Dim cnn As New ADODB.Connection Dim objErr As ADODB.Error If cnn.Errors.Count > 0 Then For Each objErr In cnn.Errors Select Case objErr.NativeError Case 942 NoTable = True Exit For Case Else strError = Error_Rtn(cnn.Errors) Exit For End Select Next cnn.Errors.Clear If NoTable Then Resume Next Else fExpFsMoYrTable = False Resume Exit_fExpFsMoYrTable End If End If > -----Original Message----- > From: Doug Murphy [mailto:doug at murphyscreativity.com] > Sent: Wednesday, March 24, 2004 02:14 PM > To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' > Subject: RE: [AccessD] VBE Error Handler > > > MZ Tools has a pretty nice error handler insertion feature. > The handler > is customizable. Works in all versions of Access from 2000 on. > > Doug > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of > John W. Colby > Sent: Wednesday, March 24, 2004 4:23 AM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: RE: [AccessD] VBE Error Handler > > > >grmbl. > > Yea, I understand. Unfortunately I am not a VB kind of guy. > I "wrote" > the original but it was in Access. I don't event own VB (non .NET > version anyway). > > You might beg and plead with Drew Wutka. He is very handy with VB and > loves a challenge. It would also give him a chance to get up to his > elbows in my old code and moan about it. I know Seth moaned a bit. > > > > John W. Colby > www.ColbyConsulting.com > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of S D > Sent: Wednesday, March 24, 2004 1:33 AM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: RE: [AccessD] VBE Error Handler > > > grmbl. > > A pitty. I think I'm going to try using you're error handler and some > copy/paste/replace stuff...or copy it into a textfile and > write a litte > prog to do the replacing. > > Thanks anyway. > > Sander > > PS: A couple of weeks back I saw my first MS-Access 2.0 app > from 1995 or > so....oi, PS1 was not completely applicable but....although > normalization was correct and it still works like a charm :-) > > "John W. Colby" wrote: > LOL to the whole message!!! In particular the PS1: I feel for you, but > with any luck it will generate prodigious revenue as you clean it up. > > The error handler wizard is in VB and is under the care of Seth > Galitzer. This sounds like a very custom mod which you would probably > have to make. > > John W. Colby > www.ColbyConsulting.com > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of S D > Sent: Tuesday, March 23, 2004 9:34 AM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: RE: [AccessD] VBE Error Handler > > > We use a VB function to create a standard message. We use this in all > (500+) applications. > > I don't won't to break the line of work. > Problem is we enherited a HUGE Access app (250+ tables, 300+ forms, > 7(!?!) > modules) > > So we've got the following line in all our error handling: > Call GenErr("Switchdatabase.Form_Startscherm", "Form_Load") > > TIA > > Sander > > PS1: according to the programmer of this beast: > - 'normalization'? What's that, a snack? > - a function is never used more then once > - dim a, b, c as string creates 3 strings.... > - dim blnError as String > blnError = "0" > blnError = "1" > blnError = "incorrect" aaahhhhrg..... > > > "John W. Colby" wrote: > In short, it is not "programmable". > > The message the user gets is the native Access error plus the > function / > module name. What did you have in mind? > > John W. Colby > www.ColbyConsulting.com > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of S D > Sent: Tuesday, March 23, 2004 8:20 AM > To: accessd > Subject: [AccessD] VBE Error Handler > > > Hi group, > > i downloaded the VBE Error Handler dll from > www.databaseadvisors written > by John Colby. I really love this program....almost. > > It works great however I want to change the message that the > user gets. > Is that possible? > > Thnx in advance. > > Regards > > Sander > > Do you Yahoo!? > Yahoo! Finance Tax Center - File online. File on time. > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > Do you Yahoo!? > Yahoo! Finance Tax Center - File online. File on time. > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > Do you Yahoo!? > Yahoo! Finance Tax Center - File online. File on time. > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > From artful at rogers.com Wed Mar 24 19:10:25 2004 From: artful at rogers.com (Arthur Fuller) Date: Wed, 24 Mar 2004 17:10:25 -0800 Subject: [AccessD] Framework Discussion - Another poll In-Reply-To: <1749581136.20040324105609@cactus.dk> Message-ID: <01e701c41205$f43d21c0$6501a8c0@rock> I am, but admittedly with reservations. Back in the dinosaur age I wrote a lot of stuff vaguely similar, and subsequently discarded for performance reasons. That was back when all you could count on was 640K or maybe 1MB of RAM. But perhaps the analysis still obtains. As I see it, there are two poles: 1. Write everything O-O and have the framework figure out what to do at run-time. 2. Regen the entire app so nothing has to be figured out at run-time and everything will therefore perform much more quickly. I'm not yet sold either way. Or perhaps more accurately, I am sold one way or the other depending upon the app's requirements. Given 1000 users, development time is trivial compared to execution time. Given 10 users, development time is much more significant. IMO, if performance is paramount, data-driven doesn't cut it. But there are lots of apps in which performance is not paramount, and in that case data-driven may be the right way to go. I wrote a lib a long time ago which was based on data-driven tech. Turned out the California Red Cross was one of our biggest customers. In their context, the performance-hit for data-driven was a serious problem. Heart-pacers were at stake, and various other machines. Any possible performance-hit had to die, else some patient might. 120 users to start, it later got a lot bigger; seconds mattered big time: every fraction of every second mattered big-time. Not to say every app is like that. Just to say that I have learned the hard way that when performance is paramount, data-driven loses. When it is not paramount, data-driven wins pretty much hands down. My $.02. Arthur -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Gustav Brock Sent: Wednesday, March 24, 2004 1:56 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Framework Discussion - Another poll Hi John I do. /gustav > I need to take another poll. Would everyone following the discussion > please raise their hands. -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From john at winhaven.net Wed Mar 24 16:42:25 2004 From: john at winhaven.net (John Bartow) Date: Wed, 24 Mar 2004 16:42:25 -0600 Subject: [AccessD] Framework Discussion - Another poll In-Reply-To: <2F8793082E00D4119A1700B0D0216BF8022279B0@main2.marlow.com> Message-ID: Exactly what has happened here - many a time! Drew Wrote: Then you read something that you think is unrelated, but it turns out to either nail the problem down, or at least give you a foot hold to start working the issue. From JHewson at karta.com Wed Mar 24 16:47:42 2004 From: JHewson at karta.com (Jim Hewson) Date: Wed, 24 Mar 2004 16:47:42 -0600 Subject: [AccessD] Framework Discussion - Another poll Message-ID: <9C382E065F54AE48BC3AA7925DCBB01C1A6A6D@karta-exc-int.Karta.com> I have not had the time to read the posts, John. I will go back and read them when I can. I have been on vacation for the last two weeks (I'm in Guangzhou, China reading emails in my hotel room). I thought it interesting that the poll came out at first and wondered why. Now, I am glad it did. I didn't realize so many people were interested in the subject. I believe that the public display of this poll serves as a reminder to all that the subject is important and deserves all the time necessary to understand the concepts. Thanks John. Jim ________________________________ From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com on behalf of John W. Colby Sent: Wed 3/24/2004 3:31 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] Framework Discussion - Another poll Sorry Jurgen, the last poll had about 10-15 responses and I expected less this time. I'm just trying to figure out whether to keep going on this series. Of course I should have requested responses off line. John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of J?rgen Welz Sent: Wednesday, March 24, 2004 12:24 PM To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: RE: [AccessD] Framework Discussion - Another poll I read most posts at this list including those by John Colby as it is usually possible to learn from others' trials and tribulations. I think it would have been appropriate to place a no archive in the original post for those who hit 'Reply'. Why a second poll? These look like 'me too' in my inbox and as gratifying as that may be to John, I would propose to moderators that responses to polls should require the no archive term in the body of either the poll or responses. Ciao J?rgen Welz Edmonton, Alberta jwelz at hotmail.com _________________________________________________________________ MSN Premium includes powerful parental controls and get 2 months FREE* http://join.msn.com/?pgmarket=en-ca&page=byoa/prem&xAPID=1994&DI=1034&SU=htt p://hotmail.com/enca&HL=Market_MSNIS_Taglines -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From MPorter at acsalaska.com Wed Mar 24 16:54:04 2004 From: MPorter at acsalaska.com (Porter, Mark) Date: Wed, 24 Mar 2004 13:54:04 -0900 Subject: [AccessD] Framework Discussion - Another poll Message-ID: I have not been active at all in this thread but have been lurking on it as I always do. I've moved on from Access to Enterprise Applications where almost everything is data driven - Siebel being my latest gig. I remain a member of this list because of the discussions and ideas which are commonly generated here. Siebel (and SAP, PeopleSoft, take your pick) is basically a big data driven framework on a large scale, yet similar to what you are implementing and discussing. Working with it and other apps for the past few years has given me a lot of ideas on how software could be implemented and structured within frameworks or common code sets in other applications, most notabily Access since that was my first platform. If I ever go back to 'ground-up' development, I'll definately create a framework of a type to make things as non-repetitive as possible. I have not done a lot of digging into your framework but I know this - your framework works for YOU. Just like my framework would work for ME. You may hear that people don't want to use your framework and that is fine. However, I still like to read the discussions because I'm more interested in the ideas behind it and how it is implemented. So please continue your writeups and discussions. Even if it isn't used by others, the discussions may still spark ideas. Mark > -----Original Message----- > From: Arthur Fuller [mailto:artful at rogers.com] > Sent: Wednesday, March 24, 2004 4:10 PM > To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' > Subject: RE: [AccessD] Framework Discussion - Another poll > > > I am, but admittedly with reservations. Back in the dinosaur > age I wrote > a lot of stuff vaguely similar, and subsequently discarded for > performance reasons. That was back when all you could count > on was 640K > or maybe 1MB of RAM. But perhaps the analysis still obtains. > > As I see it, there are two poles: > > 1. Write everything O-O and have the framework figure out > what to do at > run-time. > > 2. Regen the entire app so nothing has to be figured out at > run-time and > everything will therefore perform much more quickly. > > I'm not yet sold either way. Or perhaps more accurately, I am sold one > way or the other depending upon the app's requirements. Given 1000 > users, development time is trivial compared to execution > time. Given 10 > users, development time is much more significant. IMO, if > performance is > paramount, data-driven doesn't cut it. But there are lots of apps in > which performance is not paramount, and in that case > data-driven may be > the right way to go. > > I wrote a lib a long time ago which was based on data-driven tech. > Turned out the California Red Cross was one of our biggest > customers. In > their context, the performance-hit for data-driven was a serious > problem. Heart-pacers were at stake, and various other machines. Any > possible performance-hit had to die, else some patient might. > 120 users > to start, it later got a lot bigger; seconds mattered big time: every > fraction of every second mattered big-time. > > Not to say every app is like that. Just to say that I have learned the > hard way that when performance is paramount, data-driven > loses. When it > is not paramount, data-driven wins pretty much hands down. > > My $.02. > > Arthur > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of > Gustav Brock > Sent: Wednesday, March 24, 2004 1:56 AM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: Re: [AccessD] Framework Discussion - Another poll > > > Hi John > > I do. > > /gustav > > > > I need to take another poll. Would everyone following the > discussion > > please raise their hands. > > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > From doug at murphyscreativity.com Wed Mar 24 16:57:28 2004 From: doug at murphyscreativity.com (Doug Murphy) Date: Wed, 24 Mar 2004 14:57:28 -0800 Subject: [AccessD] VBE Error Handler - MZ_TOOLS In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <001101c411f3$639d8810$8500a8c0@CX615377a> Haven't used it that way. MZ-Tools does many things, very well I think. You can look on their web site which describes the functionality much better than I can. Doug -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of O'Connor, Patricia Sent: Wednesday, March 24, 2004 1:54 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: [AccessD] VBE Error Handler - MZ_TOOLS Does MZ_TOOL's error handler - handle connection errors or just regular access errors? I know I could download the tool - but would rather know if it was worth it beforehand. Besides the error handler is there other things in this tool that make it worthwhile Thanks Patti example Dim cnn As New ADODB.Connection Dim objErr As ADODB.Error If cnn.Errors.Count > 0 Then For Each objErr In cnn.Errors Select Case objErr.NativeError Case 942 NoTable = True Exit For Case Else strError = Error_Rtn(cnn.Errors) Exit For End Select Next cnn.Errors.Clear If NoTable Then Resume Next Else fExpFsMoYrTable = False Resume Exit_fExpFsMoYrTable End If End If > -----Original Message----- > From: Doug Murphy [mailto:doug at murphyscreativity.com] > Sent: Wednesday, March 24, 2004 02:14 PM > To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' > Subject: RE: [AccessD] VBE Error Handler > > > MZ Tools has a pretty nice error handler insertion feature. > The handler > is customizable. Works in all versions of Access from 2000 on. > > Doug > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of > John W. Colby > Sent: Wednesday, March 24, 2004 4:23 AM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: RE: [AccessD] VBE Error Handler > > > >grmbl. > > Yea, I understand. Unfortunately I am not a VB kind of guy. > I "wrote" > the original but it was in Access. I don't event own VB (non .NET > version anyway). > > You might beg and plead with Drew Wutka. He is very handy with VB and > loves a challenge. It would also give him a chance to get up to his > elbows in my old code and moan about it. I know Seth moaned a bit. > > > > John W. Colby > www.ColbyConsulting.com > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of S D > Sent: Wednesday, March 24, 2004 1:33 AM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: RE: [AccessD] VBE Error Handler > > > grmbl. > > A pitty. I think I'm going to try using you're error handler and some > copy/paste/replace stuff...or copy it into a textfile and write a > litte prog to do the replacing. > > Thanks anyway. > > Sander > > PS: A couple of weeks back I saw my first MS-Access 2.0 app > from 1995 or > so....oi, PS1 was not completely applicable but....although > normalization was correct and it still works like a charm :-) > > "John W. Colby" wrote: > LOL to the whole message!!! In particular the PS1: I feel for you, but > with any luck it will generate prodigious revenue as you clean it up. > > The error handler wizard is in VB and is under the care of Seth > Galitzer. This sounds like a very custom mod which you would probably > have to make. > > John W. Colby > www.ColbyConsulting.com > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of S D > Sent: Tuesday, March 23, 2004 9:34 AM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: RE: [AccessD] VBE Error Handler > > > We use a VB function to create a standard message. We use this in all > (500+) applications. > > I don't won't to break the line of work. > Problem is we enherited a HUGE Access app (250+ tables, 300+ forms, > 7(!?!) > modules) > > So we've got the following line in all our error handling: Call > GenErr("Switchdatabase.Form_Startscherm", "Form_Load") > > TIA > > Sander > > PS1: according to the programmer of this beast: > - 'normalization'? What's that, a snack? > - a function is never used more then once > - dim a, b, c as string creates 3 strings.... > - dim blnError as String > blnError = "0" > blnError = "1" > blnError = "incorrect" aaahhhhrg..... > > > "John W. Colby" wrote: > In short, it is not "programmable". > > The message the user gets is the native Access error plus the > function / > module name. What did you have in mind? > > John W. Colby > www.ColbyConsulting.com > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of S D > Sent: Tuesday, March 23, 2004 8:20 AM > To: accessd > Subject: [AccessD] VBE Error Handler > > > Hi group, > > i downloaded the VBE Error Handler dll from > www.databaseadvisors written > by John Colby. I really love this program....almost. > > It works great however I want to change the message that the > user gets. > Is that possible? > > Thnx in advance. > > Regards > > Sander > > Do you Yahoo!? > Yahoo! Finance Tax Center - File online. File on time. > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > Do you Yahoo!? > Yahoo! Finance Tax Center - File online. File on time. > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > Do you Yahoo!? > Yahoo! Finance Tax Center - File online. File on time. > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From cfoust at infostatsystems.com Wed Mar 24 17:08:04 2004 From: cfoust at infostatsystems.com (Charlotte Foust) Date: Wed, 24 Mar 2004 15:08:04 -0800 Subject: [AccessD] VBE Error Handler - MZ_TOOLS Message-ID: MZ-Tools doesn't have an error handler, it has a tool to insert error handling into your code. It has a find that I couldn't live without because it shows alls hits in a tree view. It has helpful tools like templates you can customize for not only your error handling but also a wizard for inserting procedures, module headers, procedure headers, adding and removing line numbers in code, splitting and combining lines, a Select Case wizard, and a bunch of other tools, including one to clear the immediate window and to close all code windows. It also has a nifty Review Source Code utility that will show you a list of variables and procedures that aren't used in the project - and it's lots cheaper than FMS tools. Charlotte Foust -----Original Message----- From: O'Connor, Patricia [mailto:Patricia.O'Connor at DFA.STATE.NY.US] Sent: Wednesday, March 24, 2004 1:54 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: [AccessD] VBE Error Handler - MZ_TOOLS Does MZ_TOOL's error handler - handle connection errors or just regular access errors? I know I could download the tool - but would rather know if it was worth it beforehand. Besides the error handler is there other things in this tool that make it worthwhile Thanks Patti example Dim cnn As New ADODB.Connection Dim objErr As ADODB.Error If cnn.Errors.Count > 0 Then For Each objErr In cnn.Errors Select Case objErr.NativeError Case 942 NoTable = True Exit For Case Else strError = Error_Rtn(cnn.Errors) Exit For End Select Next cnn.Errors.Clear If NoTable Then Resume Next Else fExpFsMoYrTable = False Resume Exit_fExpFsMoYrTable End If End If > -----Original Message----- > From: Doug Murphy [mailto:doug at murphyscreativity.com] > Sent: Wednesday, March 24, 2004 02:14 PM > To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' > Subject: RE: [AccessD] VBE Error Handler > > > MZ Tools has a pretty nice error handler insertion feature. > The handler > is customizable. Works in all versions of Access from 2000 on. > > Doug > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of > John W. Colby > Sent: Wednesday, March 24, 2004 4:23 AM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: RE: [AccessD] VBE Error Handler > > > >grmbl. > > Yea, I understand. Unfortunately I am not a VB kind of guy. > I "wrote" > the original but it was in Access. I don't event own VB (non .NET > version anyway). > > You might beg and plead with Drew Wutka. He is very handy with VB and > loves a challenge. It would also give him a chance to get up to his > elbows in my old code and moan about it. I know Seth moaned a bit. > > > > John W. Colby > www.ColbyConsulting.com > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of S D > Sent: Wednesday, March 24, 2004 1:33 AM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: RE: [AccessD] VBE Error Handler > > > grmbl. > > A pitty. I think I'm going to try using you're error handler and some > copy/paste/replace stuff...or copy it into a textfile and write a > litte prog to do the replacing. > > Thanks anyway. > > Sander > > PS: A couple of weeks back I saw my first MS-Access 2.0 app > from 1995 or > so....oi, PS1 was not completely applicable but....although > normalization was correct and it still works like a charm :-) > > "John W. Colby" wrote: > LOL to the whole message!!! In particular the PS1: I feel for you, but > with any luck it will generate prodigious revenue as you clean it up. > > The error handler wizard is in VB and is under the care of Seth > Galitzer. This sounds like a very custom mod which you would probably > have to make. > > John W. Colby > www.ColbyConsulting.com > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of S D > Sent: Tuesday, March 23, 2004 9:34 AM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: RE: [AccessD] VBE Error Handler > > > We use a VB function to create a standard message. We use this in all > (500+) applications. > > I don't won't to break the line of work. > Problem is we enherited a HUGE Access app (250+ tables, 300+ forms, > 7(!?!) > modules) > > So we've got the following line in all our error handling: Call > GenErr("Switchdatabase.Form_Startscherm", "Form_Load") > > TIA > > Sander > > PS1: according to the programmer of this beast: > - 'normalization'? What's that, a snack? > - a function is never used more then once > - dim a, b, c as string creates 3 strings.... > - dim blnError as String > blnError = "0" > blnError = "1" > blnError = "incorrect" aaahhhhrg..... > > > "John W. Colby" wrote: > In short, it is not "programmable". > > The message the user gets is the native Access error plus the > function / > module name. What did you have in mind? > > John W. Colby > www.ColbyConsulting.com > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of S D > Sent: Tuesday, March 23, 2004 8:20 AM > To: accessd > Subject: [AccessD] VBE Error Handler > > > Hi group, > > i downloaded the VBE Error Handler dll from > www.databaseadvisors written > by John Colby. I really love this program....almost. > > It works great however I want to change the message that the > user gets. > Is that possible? > > Thnx in advance. > > Regards > > Sander > > Do you Yahoo!? > Yahoo! Finance Tax Center - File online. File on time. > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > Do you Yahoo!? > Yahoo! Finance Tax Center - File online. File on time. > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > Do you Yahoo!? > Yahoo! Finance Tax Center - File online. File on time. > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From cfoust at infostatsystems.com Wed Mar 24 17:21:38 2004 From: cfoust at infostatsystems.com (Charlotte Foust) Date: Wed, 24 Mar 2004 15:21:38 -0800 Subject: [AccessD] determining the datatype of a bound control Message-ID: You can use the Clone method to create a copy of the ADO recordset, but it is not the same as the DAO recordsetclone at all. Charlotte Foust -----Original Message----- From: John W. Colby [mailto:jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com] Sent: Wednesday, March 24, 2004 12:24 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] determining the datatype of a bound control This is cool. Mil Gracias. Since you responded, is there any way to do the RecordsetClone thing in ADO? John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Charlotte Foust Sent: Wednesday, March 24, 2004 11:38 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] determining the datatype of a bound control John, This will do it if your form's recordsource is a table Dim strCtlSrc As String Dim strDataSrc As String Dim rst As ADODB.Recordset Dim intType As Integer strDataSrc = Me.RecordSource strCtlSrc = txtDOB.ControlSource Set rst = New ADODB.Recordset rst.Open strDataSrc , CurrentProject.Connection, , , adCmdTable intType = rst.Fields(strCtlSrc).Type Assuming the underlying field is a date, this will return a 7, which is adDate Charlotte Foust -----Original Message----- From: John W. Colby [mailto:jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com] Sent: Tuesday, March 23, 2004 12:08 PM To: AccessD Subject: [AccessD] determining the datatype of a bound control I currently determine the data type of the data that a control is displaying by the following code: Dim strCtlSrc As String Dim rst As DAO.Recordset Dim intType As Integer strCtlSrc = txtDOB.ControlSource Set rst = Me.RecordsetClone intType = rst.Fields(strCtlSrc).Type Is there a similar method of getting at this from ADO? John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From cfoust at infostatsystems.com Wed Mar 24 17:27:20 2004 From: cfoust at infostatsystems.com (Charlotte Foust) Date: Wed, 24 Mar 2004 15:27:20 -0800 Subject: [AccessD] determining the datatype of a bound control Message-ID: I qualified it because that was what the example was for. If you were using a query, you would have to do it differently, probably by using a command object. I wasn't sure whether you were looking for some multi-purpose code or just asking in general, and I wanted you to be fully aware that what I posted only applied to a table. The adCmdTable would be adCmdText or adStoredProc if you were using a select statement or a query, but if you're looking for a way to fit it into your framework, you would have to be able to determine what kind of thing the form was bound to before proceeding. Charlotte Foust -----Original Message----- From: John W. Colby [mailto:jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com] Sent: Wednesday, March 24, 2004 12:51 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] determining the datatype of a bound control I just got the "if it's a table" part. That's not so nice since many forms are bound to queries. John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Charlotte Foust Sent: Wednesday, March 24, 2004 11:38 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] determining the datatype of a bound control John, This will do it if your form's recordsource is a table Dim strCtlSrc As String Dim strDataSrc As String Dim rst As ADODB.Recordset Dim intType As Integer strDataSrc = Me.RecordSource strCtlSrc = txtDOB.ControlSource Set rst = New ADODB.Recordset rst.Open strDataSrc , CurrentProject.Connection, , , adCmdTable intType = rst.Fields(strCtlSrc).Type Assuming the underlying field is a date, this will return a 7, which is adDate Charlotte Foust -----Original Message----- From: John W. Colby [mailto:jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com] Sent: Tuesday, March 23, 2004 12:08 PM To: AccessD Subject: [AccessD] determining the datatype of a bound control I currently determine the data type of the data that a control is displaying by the following code: Dim strCtlSrc As String Dim rst As DAO.Recordset Dim intType As Integer strCtlSrc = txtDOB.ControlSource Set rst = Me.RecordsetClone intType = rst.Fields(strCtlSrc).Type Is there a similar method of getting at this from ADO? John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From accessd at shaw.ca Wed Mar 24 18:45:01 2004 From: accessd at shaw.ca (Jim Lawrence (AccessD)) Date: Wed, 24 Mar 2004 16:45:01 -0800 Subject: [AccessD] Framework Discussion - Another poll In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Hi John: I for one but it may start looking like 'me too'. Jim -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of John W. Colby Sent: Tuesday, March 23, 2004 10:10 PM To: AccessD Subject: [AccessD] Framework Discussion - Another poll I need to take another poll. Would everyone following the discussion please raise their hands. Thanks, John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com Wed Mar 24 19:01:34 2004 From: jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com (John W. Colby) Date: Wed, 24 Mar 2004 20:01:34 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Framework Discussion - Another poll In-Reply-To: <01e701c41205$f43d21c0$6501a8c0@rock> Message-ID: Yep, yep and yep. My clientele is about development time which is why I do what I do. Unfortunately I have never had a "here's a half million, take your time" client. My standard agreement with all of my clients is that if they hire me they get a license to use my framework. My framework drops my development time radically simply because I don't program the same thing over and over and over... Furthermore my agreement states that if it is application specific, it goes in the app; if it is generic, I get to decide whether to place it in the framework. I OWN the framework. The client gets the benefit (for free) of all the development that has gone before and pays for all the development that comes on their shift. I add new stuff to the framework almost every job, paid for by the client in all cases. Thus month after month, year after year the framework gets more and more advanced, new ideas, new behaviors. Each client inherits more stuff and pays for a "higher level" of development simply because that's what is left to do. As time goes on, most of the development becomes application specific, but again, if I develop something that I "coulda used on that other job" I retain the right to keep that code and place it in the framework for the future (or my other clients already using the framework). John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Arthur Fuller Sent: Wednesday, March 24, 2004 8:10 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: [AccessD] Framework Discussion - Another poll I am, but admittedly with reservations. Back in the dinosaur age I wrote a lot of stuff vaguely similar, and subsequently discarded for performance reasons. That was back when all you could count on was 640K or maybe 1MB of RAM. But perhaps the analysis still obtains. As I see it, there are two poles: 1. Write everything O-O and have the framework figure out what to do at run-time. 2. Regen the entire app so nothing has to be figured out at run-time and everything will therefore perform much more quickly. I'm not yet sold either way. Or perhaps more accurately, I am sold one way or the other depending upon the app's requirements. Given 1000 users, development time is trivial compared to execution time. Given 10 users, development time is much more significant. IMO, if performance is paramount, data-driven doesn't cut it. But there are lots of apps in which performance is not paramount, and in that case data-driven may be the right way to go. I wrote a lib a long time ago which was based on data-driven tech. Turned out the California Red Cross was one of our biggest customers. In their context, the performance-hit for data-driven was a serious problem. Heart-pacers were at stake, and various other machines. Any possible performance-hit had to die, else some patient might. 120 users to start, it later got a lot bigger; seconds mattered big time: every fraction of every second mattered big-time. Not to say every app is like that. Just to say that I have learned the hard way that when performance is paramount, data-driven loses. When it is not paramount, data-driven wins pretty much hands down. My $.02. Arthur -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Gustav Brock Sent: Wednesday, March 24, 2004 1:56 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Framework Discussion - Another poll Hi John I do. /gustav > I need to take another poll. Would everyone following the discussion > please raise their hands. -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com Wed Mar 24 20:46:12 2004 From: jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com (John W. Colby) Date: Wed, 24 Mar 2004 21:46:12 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Framework Discussion - set up question In-Reply-To: <000401c411aa$aca34430$6401a8c0@COA3> Message-ID: >I don't see exactly where to tell the fw that , for example, on 2 different combo's Not In List, I want combo1 to pop a form for data-entry, but combo2 to silently undo and reject the newdata. Should this be set in the Tag property? First of all I abandoned all Tag usage ages ago, with the sole exception of subform controls. I did so because so many people were using them using so many "syntaxes" for storing their data that it became dangerous to use them since my stuff might be lost because of what someone else did. I don't particularly like using the tag for subforms but I adopted a "syntax" where if the tag had a subform name but the Source Object property was cleared then when the tab was clicked copy the tag to the SourceObject property. This became very handy for setting / clearing JIT subform processing during troubleshooting and I just never figured out another way. I now directly program a specific control class to enable a specific behavior in the form's Open event. In my framework that is the only event I use routinely, as a matter of course. You might have noticed in the example code a line that looks like: With fdclsFrm.colClasses .item("cboIDCity").NotInListData "tlkpCity", "CI_City", "lfrmCity", True, False End With This is what programs the specific behavior that you refer to. The combo city is passed parameters - the lookup table for the list data, the field the data goes in for NotInList automatic storage, the lfrm to open for a dblClick in the combo, and two booleans that program whether to turn on NotInList and DblClick processing. If a combo is not passed these parameters using this method call, then it does nothing (does not handle) notInList or DblClick. In my framework I pop up a generic message "you are not authorized to edit this data". Although I haven't done so, it would be possible to "tell" the combo that the form should be used for NotInList and DblClick simply by testing for a value passed into the table / field parameters. If nothing passed in there, but a form is passed in AND the UseNotInList boolean is true, then assume that the form should open for NotInList processing. The bottom line is that the form scanning is difficult to program for this kind of stuff directly unless you do use the tag property and I have a personal distaste for using the tag so I don't. My good friend William started me moving away from using tags. He said "just give me a method to directly program behaviors and I'll do it explicitly". Now I do just that. John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Developer Sent: Wednesday, March 24, 2004 9:17 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: [AccessD] Framework Discussion - set up question I;ve been not able to read all the mail on the FW closely for the past week, so sorry if this is a repeat. I "get" the idea, and the form scanning, but I don't see exaclty where to tell the fw that , for example, on 2 different combo's Not In List, I want combo1 to pop a form for data-entry, but combo2 to silently undo and reject the newdata. Should this be set in the Tag property? Tia, Steve -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From jwelz at hotmail.com Thu Mar 25 00:14:58 2004 From: jwelz at hotmail.com (Jürgen Welz) Date: Wed, 24 Mar 2004 23:14:58 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] Framework Discussion - set up question Message-ID: I've posted the following before but perhaps should mention it again: I too avoid using the tag. One may instead add user defined properties to the form by appending to the properties collection of the form document. You may add a property in the name of each control and read and write these properties. The properties are persistent and apply to all created instances of forms from the documents collections. Using a property with the same name as a control or directly derived from the control name by appending a prefix or suffix makes it as easy to iterate as the controls collection and provides a simple means to connect control and property. I guess the alternative is a naming convention for the type of combo. Ciao J?rgen Welz Edmonton, Alberta jwelz at hotmail.com > >I don't see exactly where to tell the fw that , for example, on 2 >different >combo's Not In List, I want combo1 to pop a form for data-entry, but combo2 >to silently undo and reject the newdata. Should this be set in the Tag >property? >. . . >The bottom line is that the form scanning is difficult to program for this >kind of stuff directly unless you do use the tag property and I have a >personal distaste for using the tag so I don't. My good friend William >started me moving away from using tags. He said "just give me a method to >directly program behaviors and I'll do it explicitly". Now I do just that. > >John W. Colby >www.ColbyConsulting.com > >-----Original Message----- >From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com >[mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Developer >Sent: Wednesday, March 24, 2004 9:17 AM >To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' >Subject: RE: [AccessD] Framework Discussion - set up question > > >I;ve been not able to read all the mail on the FW closely for the past >week, so sorry if this is a repeat. >I "get" the idea, and the form scanning, but I don't see exaclty where >to tell the fw that , for example, on 2 different combo's Not In List, I >want combo1 to pop a form for data-entry, but combo2 to silently undo >and reject the newdata. Should this be set in the Tag property? > >Tia, >Steve _________________________________________________________________ Free yourself from those irritating pop-up ads with MSn Premium. Get 2months FREE* http://join.msn.com/?pgmarket=en-ca&page=byoa/prem&xAPID=1994&DI=1034&SU=http://hotmail.com/enca&HL=Market_MSNIS_Taglines From accessd667 at yahoo.com Thu Mar 25 00:59:03 2004 From: accessd667 at yahoo.com (S D) Date: Wed, 24 Mar 2004 22:59:03 -0800 (PST) Subject: [AccessD] VBE Error Handler SOLVED!! In-Reply-To: <2F8793082E00D4119A1700B0D0216BF8022279A9@main2.marlow.com> Message-ID: <20040325065903.68385.qmail@web61105.mail.yahoo.com> Hi Drew, Hold all project-horses! In very short: We use MZ-Tools, with some standardization. VBE Error Handler has a feature to add error handling toALL forms, reports, modules with 1 click, MZ-Tools doesn't. The standardization we use is implemented via 1 line of code. I was wondering if I could let VBEEH drop this line of code... It isn't (without doing some programming) so bad luck for me. Didn't mean for this to explode in projects throughout the world :-) Thanx anyway! Sander DWUTKA at marlow.com wrote: Okay, before I get volunteered for a new project, what exactly are we trying to accomplish. Only been eyeballing the threads lately.... Drew -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of John W. Colby Sent: Wednesday, March 24, 2004 6:23 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] VBE Error Handler >grmbl. Yea, I understand. Unfortunately I am not a VB kind of guy. I "wrote" the original but it was in Access. I don't event own VB (non .NET version anyway). You might beg and plead with Drew Wutka. He is very handy with VB and loves a challenge. It would also give him a chance to get up to his elbows in my old code and moan about it. I know Seth moaned a bit. John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of S D Sent: Wednesday, March 24, 2004 1:33 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] VBE Error Handler grmbl. A pitty. I think I'm going to try using you're error handler and some copy/paste/replace stuff...or copy it into a textfile and write a litte prog to do the replacing. Thanks anyway. Sander PS: A couple of weeks back I saw my first MS-Access 2.0 app from 1995 or so....oi, PS1 was not completely applicable but....although normalization was correct and it still works like a charm :-) "John W. Colby" wrote: LOL to the whole message!!! In particular the PS1: I feel for you, but with any luck it will generate prodigious revenue as you clean it up. The error handler wizard is in VB and is under the care of Seth Galitzer. This sounds like a very custom mod which you would probably have to make. John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of S D Sent: Tuesday, March 23, 2004 9:34 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] VBE Error Handler We use a VB function to create a standard message. We use this in all (500+) applications. I don't won't to break the line of work. Problem is we enherited a HUGE Access app (250+ tables, 300+ forms, 7(!?!) modules) So we've got the following line in all our error handling: Call GenErr("Switchdatabase.Form_Startscherm", "Form_Load") TIA Sander PS1: according to the programmer of this beast: - 'normalization'? What's that, a snack? - a function is never used more then once - dim a, b, c as string creates 3 strings.... - dim blnError as String blnError = "0" blnError = "1" blnError = "incorrect" aaahhhhrg..... "John W. Colby" wrote: In short, it is not "programmable". The message the user gets is the native Access error plus the function / module name. What did you have in mind? John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of S D Sent: Tuesday, March 23, 2004 8:20 AM To: accessd Subject: [AccessD] VBE Error Handler Hi group, i downloaded the VBE Error Handler dll from www.databaseadvisors written by John Colby. I really love this program....almost. It works great however I want to change the message that the user gets. Is that possible? Thnx in advance. Regards Sander Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Finance Tax Center - File online. File on time. -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Finance Tax Center - File online. File on time. -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Finance Tax Center - File online. File on time. -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com --------------------------------- Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Finance Tax Center - File online. File on time. From accessd at shaw.ca Thu Mar 25 01:42:29 2004 From: accessd at shaw.ca (Jim Lawrence (AccessD)) Date: Wed, 24 Mar 2004 23:42:29 -0800 Subject: [AccessD] determining the datatype of a bound control In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Hi John: There is no Me.RecordsetClone in ADO, simply because it is not 'bound' to the form. The relationship between the form and recordset has to be created. A FieldSource collection would have to be manually assembled...I think it is no more difficult (difficult is relative, but when considered it in the context with the framework...) than when the data source elements are being attached to a 'bound' form's fields and maybe an semi-automated process could be created(?). If you require the properties, types, columns, relationships etc. from tables, groups, users, procedures and even views, the ADOX object should be used. I understand it was not fully implemented in SQL 7 but in SQL 2000 or greater or in the current flavours of DAO, it is suppose to be...Have not tested it as it was never an issue or that there was not a Framework to satisfy. When having ADO questions I refer to my ADO bible; 'Professional ADO 2.5 Programming' from WROX. ADO is a big subject and there seems to be many ways to accomplish anything and a lot of it's feature can be used in unconventional methods and situations. After five years I am still just learning. HTH Jim -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of John W. Colby Sent: Tuesday, March 23, 2004 12:08 PM To: AccessD Subject: [AccessD] determining the datatype of a bound control I currently determine the data type of the data that a control is displaying by the following code: Dim strCtlSrc As String Dim rst As DAO.Recordset Dim intType As Integer strCtlSrc = txtDOB.ControlSource Set rst = Me.RecordsetClone intType = rst.Fields(strCtlSrc).Type Is there a similar method of getting at this from ADO? John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com Thu Mar 25 06:14:38 2004 From: jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com (John W. Colby) Date: Thu, 25 Mar 2004 07:14:38 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Framework Discussion - set up question In-Reply-To: Message-ID: This is a great way to store control related stuff that you wish to remain private since so few people even know that you can do this. Just don't let Jurgen get a hold of it. ;-) John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of J?rgen Welz Sent: Thursday, March 25, 2004 1:15 AM To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: RE: [AccessD] Framework Discussion - set up question I've posted the following before but perhaps should mention it again: I too avoid using the tag. One may instead add user defined properties to the form by appending to the properties collection of the form document. You may add a property in the name of each control and read and write these properties. The properties are persistent and apply to all created instances of forms from the documents collections. Using a property with the same name as a control or directly derived from the control name by appending a prefix or suffix makes it as easy to iterate as the controls collection and provides a simple means to connect control and property. I guess the alternative is a naming convention for the type of combo. Ciao J?rgen Welz Edmonton, Alberta jwelz at hotmail.com > >I don't see exactly where to tell the fw that , for example, on 2 >different >combo's Not In List, I want combo1 to pop a form for data-entry, but combo2 >to silently undo and reject the newdata. Should this be set in the Tag >property? >. . . >The bottom line is that the form scanning is difficult to program for this >kind of stuff directly unless you do use the tag property and I have a >personal distaste for using the tag so I don't. My good friend William >started me moving away from using tags. He said "just give me a method to >directly program behaviors and I'll do it explicitly". Now I do just that. > >John W. Colby >www.ColbyConsulting.com > >-----Original Message----- >From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com >[mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Developer >Sent: Wednesday, March 24, 2004 9:17 AM >To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' >Subject: RE: [AccessD] Framework Discussion - set up question > > >I;ve been not able to read all the mail on the FW closely for the past >week, so sorry if this is a repeat. >I "get" the idea, and the form scanning, but I don't see exaclty where >to tell the fw that , for example, on 2 different combo's Not In List, I >want combo1 to pop a form for data-entry, but combo2 to silently undo >and reject the newdata. Should this be set in the Tag property? > >Tia, >Steve _________________________________________________________________ Free yourself from those irritating pop-up ads with MSn Premium. Get 2months FREE* http://join.msn.com/?pgmarket=en-ca&page=byoa/prem&xAPID=1994&DI=1034&SU=htt p://hotmail.com/enca&HL=Market_MSNIS_Taglines -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From pedro at plex.nl Thu Mar 25 13:44:21 2004 From: pedro at plex.nl (pedro at plex.nl) Date: Thu, 25 Mar 2004 13:44:21 (MET) Subject: [AccessD] total of sum Message-ID: <200403251244.i2PCiLRM020693@mailhostC.plex.net> Hello group, i need to make an presentation of some figures for later this afternoon. I had a query that made a sum of numbers as a total, but i can't find it right now. Can You give me a hand? i have diag number biopt 5 biopt 7 biopt 2 ascites 4 ascites 6 i need diag Total biopt 14 ascites 10 Thanks Pedro Janssen From rsmethurst at UK.EY.COM Thu Mar 25 06:48:13 2004 From: rsmethurst at UK.EY.COM (rsmethurst at UK.EY.COM) Date: Thu, 25 Mar 2004 12:48:13 +0000 Subject: [AccessD] total of sum Message-ID: Hi Pedro, In your query, you want to Group By on the first field and then Sum the second field. Ryan pedro at plex.nl Sent by: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com 25/03/2004 13:44 Please respond to Access Developers discussion and problem solving To: accessD at databaseadvisors.com cc: Subject: [AccessD] total of sum Hello group, i need to make an presentation of some figures for later this afternoon. I had a query that made a sum of numbers as a total, but i can't find it right now. Can You give me a hand? i have diag number biopt 5 biopt 7 biopt 2 ascites 4 ascites 6 i need diag Total biopt 14 ascites 10 Thanks Pedro Janssen -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com This e-mail and any attachment are confidential and contain proprietary information, some or all of which may be legally privileged. It is intended solely for the use of the individual or entity to which it is addressed. If you are not the intended recipient, please notify the author immediately by telephone or by replying to this e-mail, and then delete all copies of the e-mail on your system. If you are not the intended recipient, you must not use, disclose, distribute, copy, print or rely on this e-mail. 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From roz.clarke at donnslaw.co.uk Thu Mar 25 06:51:06 2004 From: roz.clarke at donnslaw.co.uk (Roz Clarke) Date: Thu, 25 Mar 2004 12:51:06 -0000 Subject: [AccessD] total of sum Message-ID: <61F915314798D311A2F800A0C9C83188047C6C57@dibble.observatory.donnslaw.co.uk> Hi Pedro All you need to do is make the query into a Totals query, group by diag and sum the number. HTH Roz -----Original Message----- From: pedro at plex.nl [mailto:pedro at plex.nl] Sent: 25 March 2004 13:44 To: accessD at databaseadvisors.com Subject: [AccessD] total of sum Hello group, i need to make an presentation of some figures for later this afternoon. I had a query that made a sum of numbers as a total, but i can't find it right now. Can You give me a hand? i have diag number biopt 5 biopt 7 biopt 2 ascites 4 ascites 6 i need diag Total biopt 14 ascites 10 Thanks Pedro Janssen -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From paul.hartland at fsmail.net Thu Mar 25 06:52:04 2004 From: paul.hartland at fsmail.net (paul.hartland at fsmail.net) Date: Thu, 25 Mar 2004 13:52:04 +0100 (CET) Subject: [AccessD] total of sum Message-ID: <26195871.1080219124567.JavaMail.www@wwinf3006> Pedro, Try this: SELECT Diag, Sum(Number) AS Total FROM [YourTable] GROUP BY Diag Paul Hartland Message date : Mar 25 2004, 12:45 PM >From : pedro at plex.nl To : accessD at databaseadvisors.com Copy to : Subject : [AccessD] total of sum Hello group, i need to make an presentation of some figures for later this afternoon. I had a query that made a sum of numbers as a total, but i can't find it right now. Can You give me a hand? i have diag number biopt 5 biopt 7 biopt 2 ascites 4 ascites 6 i need diag Total biopt 14 ascites 10 Thanks Pedro Janssen -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com Freeserve AnyTime - HALF PRICE for the first 3 months - Save ?7.50 a month www.freeserve.com/anytime From pedro at plex.nl Thu Mar 25 15:18:22 2004 From: pedro at plex.nl (pedro at plex.nl) Date: Thu, 25 Mar 2004 15:18:22 (MET) Subject: [AccessD] total of sum Message-ID: <200403251418.i2PEIMRM024746@mailhostC.plex.net> Hello, sometimes when have asked a question and see the responce, you can find yourself a compleet idiot. Why the hell did i ask this?? Sometimes your so busy with other work, that you don't take the time to think. I would do this with select distinct, i don't know why. I didn't thought on group by, and why am i not looking in the design view? But thanks to all who responded. Pedro Janssen Cytologist From: rsmethurst at UK.EY.COM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Date: Thu, 25 Mar 2004 12:48:13 +0000 Subject: Re: [AccessD] total of sum Hi Pedro, In your query, you want to Group By on the first field and then Sum the second field. Ryan From Developer at UltraDNT.com Thu Mar 25 08:45:08 2004 From: Developer at UltraDNT.com (Developer) Date: Thu, 25 Mar 2004 09:45:08 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Framework Discussion - set up question In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <002201c41277$cb044780$6401a8c0@COA3> Cool, thanks to both of you ... I always thought that using the Tag felt a bit "hack-y" Steve -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of John W. Colby Sent: Thursday, March 25, 2004 7:15 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] Framework Discussion - set up question This is a great way to store control related stuff that you wish to remain private since so few people even know that you can do this. Just don't let Jurgen get a hold of it. ;-) John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of J?rgen Welz Sent: Thursday, March 25, 2004 1:15 AM To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: RE: [AccessD] Framework Discussion - set up question I've posted the following before but perhaps should mention it again: I too avoid using the tag. One may instead add user defined properties to the form by appending to the properties collection of the form document. You may add a property in the name of each control and read and write these properties. The properties are persistent and apply to all created instances of forms from the documents collections. Using a property with the same name as a control or directly derived from the control name by appending a prefix or suffix makes it as easy to iterate as the controls collection and provides a simple means to connect control and property. I guess the alternative is a naming convention for the type of combo. Ciao J?rgen Welz Edmonton, Alberta jwelz at hotmail.com > >I don't see exactly where to tell the fw that , for example, on 2 >different >combo's Not In List, I want combo1 to pop a form for data-entry, but >combo2 to silently undo and reject the newdata. Should this be set in >the Tag property? . . . >The bottom line is that the form scanning is difficult to program for >this kind of stuff directly unless you do use the tag property and I >have a personal distaste for using the tag so I don't. My good friend >William started me moving away from using tags. He said "just give me >a method to directly program behaviors and I'll do it explicitly". Now >I do just that. > >John W. Colby >www.ColbyConsulting.com > >-----Original Message----- >From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com >[mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Developer >Sent: Wednesday, March 24, 2004 9:17 AM >To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' >Subject: RE: [AccessD] Framework Discussion - set up question > > >I;ve been not able to read all the mail on the FW closely for the past >week, so sorry if this is a repeat. I "get" the idea, and the form >scanning, but I don't see exaclty where to tell the fw that , for >example, on 2 different combo's Not In List, I want combo1 to pop a >form for data-entry, but combo2 to silently undo and reject the >newdata. Should this be set in the Tag property? > >Tia, >Steve _________________________________________________________________ Free yourself from those irritating pop-up ads with MSn Premium. Get 2months FREE* http://join.msn.com/?pgmarket=en-ca&page=byoa/prem&xAPID=1994&DI=1034&SU =htt p://hotmail.com/enca&HL=Market_MSNIS_Taglines -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From Patricia.O'Connor at DFA.STATE.NY.US Thu Mar 25 08:53:07 2004 From: Patricia.O'Connor at DFA.STATE.NY.US (O'Connor, Patricia ) Date: Thu, 25 Mar 2004 09:53:07 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] VBE Error Handler - MZ_TOOLS Message-ID: Thanks Charlotte Sounds pretty neat Patti > -----Original Message----- > From: Charlotte Foust [mailto:cfoust at infostatsystems.com] > Sent: Wednesday, March 24, 2004 06:08 PM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: RE: [AccessD] VBE Error Handler - MZ_TOOLS > > > MZ-Tools doesn't have an error handler, it has a tool to insert error > handling into your code. It has a find that I couldn't live without > because it shows alls hits in a tree view. It has helpful tools like > templates you can customize for not only your error handling > but also a > wizard for inserting procedures, module headers, procedure headers, > adding and removing line numbers in code, splitting and > combining lines, > a Select Case wizard, and a bunch of other tools, including > one to clear > the immediate window and to close all code windows. It also > has a nifty > Review Source Code utility that will show you a list of variables and > procedures that aren't used in the project - and it's lots > cheaper than > FMS tools. > > Charlotte Foust > > -----Original Message----- > From: O'Connor, Patricia [mailto:Patricia.O'Connor at DFA.STATE.NY.US] > Sent: Wednesday, March 24, 2004 1:54 PM > To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' > Subject: RE: [AccessD] VBE Error Handler - MZ_TOOLS > > > Does MZ_TOOL's error handler - handle connection errors or > just regular > access errors? I know I could download the tool - but would > rather know > if it was worth it beforehand. Besides the error handler is > there other > things in this tool that make it worthwhile > > Thanks > Patti > > example > > Dim cnn As New ADODB.Connection > Dim objErr As ADODB.Error > If cnn.Errors.Count > 0 Then > For Each objErr In cnn.Errors > Select Case objErr.NativeError > Case 942 > NoTable = True > Exit For > Case Else > strError = Error_Rtn(cnn.Errors) > Exit For > End Select > Next > > cnn.Errors.Clear > If NoTable Then > Resume Next > Else > fExpFsMoYrTable = False > Resume Exit_fExpFsMoYrTable > End If > End If > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: Doug Murphy [mailto:doug at murphyscreativity.com] > > Sent: Wednesday, March 24, 2004 02:14 PM > > To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' > > Subject: RE: [AccessD] VBE Error Handler > > > > > > MZ Tools has a pretty nice error handler insertion feature. > > The handler > > is customizable. Works in all versions of Access from 2000 on. > > > > Doug > > > > > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of > > John W. Colby > > Sent: Wednesday, March 24, 2004 4:23 AM > > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > > Subject: RE: [AccessD] VBE Error Handler > > > > > > >grmbl. > > > > Yea, I understand. Unfortunately I am not a VB kind of guy. > > I "wrote" > > the original but it was in Access. I don't event own VB (non .NET > > version anyway). > > > > You might beg and plead with Drew Wutka. He is very handy > with VB and > > > loves a challenge. It would also give him a chance to get > up to his > > elbows in my old code and moan about it. I know Seth moaned a bit. > > > > > > > > John W. Colby > > www.ColbyConsulting.com > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of S D > > Sent: Wednesday, March 24, 2004 1:33 AM > > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > > Subject: RE: [AccessD] VBE Error Handler > > > > > > grmbl. > > > > A pitty. I think I'm going to try using you're error > handler and some > > copy/paste/replace stuff...or copy it into a textfile and write a > > litte prog to do the replacing. > > > > Thanks anyway. > > > > Sander > > > > PS: A couple of weeks back I saw my first MS-Access 2.0 app > > from 1995 or > > so....oi, PS1 was not completely applicable but....although > > normalization was correct and it still works like a charm :-) > > > > "John W. Colby" wrote: > > LOL to the whole message!!! In particular the PS1: I feel > for you, but > > > with any luck it will generate prodigious revenue as you > clean it up. > > > > The error handler wizard is in VB and is under the care of Seth > > Galitzer. This sounds like a very custom mod which you > would probably > > have to make. > > > > John W. Colby > > www.ColbyConsulting.com > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of S D > > Sent: Tuesday, March 23, 2004 9:34 AM > > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > > Subject: RE: [AccessD] VBE Error Handler > > > > > > We use a VB function to create a standard message. We use > this in all > > (500+) applications. > > > > I don't won't to break the line of work. > > Problem is we enherited a HUGE Access app (250+ tables, 300+ forms, > > 7(!?!) > > modules) > > > > So we've got the following line in all our error handling: Call > > GenErr("Switchdatabase.Form_Startscherm", "Form_Load") > > > > TIA > > > > Sander > > > > PS1: according to the programmer of this beast: > > - 'normalization'? What's that, a snack? > > - a function is never used more then once > > - dim a, b, c as string creates 3 strings.... > > - dim blnError as String > > blnError = "0" > > blnError = "1" > > blnError = "incorrect" aaahhhhrg..... > > > > > > "John W. Colby" wrote: > > In short, it is not "programmable". > > > > The message the user gets is the native Access error plus the > > function / > > module name. What did you have in mind? > > > > John W. Colby > > www.ColbyConsulting.com > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of S D > > Sent: Tuesday, March 23, 2004 8:20 AM > > To: accessd > > Subject: [AccessD] VBE Error Handler > > > > > > Hi group, > > > > i downloaded the VBE Error Handler dll from > > www.databaseadvisors written > > by John Colby. I really love this program....almost. > > > > It works great however I want to change the message that the > > user gets. > > Is that possible? > > > > Thnx in advance. > > > > Regards > > > > Sander > > > > Do you Yahoo!? > > Yahoo! Finance Tax Center - File online. File on time. > > -- > > _______________________________________________ > > AccessD mailing list > > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > > > > > -- > > _______________________________________________ > > AccessD mailing list > > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > Do you Yahoo!? > > Yahoo! Finance Tax Center - File online. File on time. > > -- > > _______________________________________________ > > AccessD mailing list > > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > > > > > -- > > _______________________________________________ > > AccessD mailing list > > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > Do you Yahoo!? > > Yahoo! Finance Tax Center - File online. File on time. > > -- > > _______________________________________________ > > AccessD mailing list > > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > > > > > -- > > _______________________________________________ > > AccessD mailing list > > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > > > > > -- > > _______________________________________________ > > AccessD mailing list > > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > From JRojas at tnco-inc.com Thu Mar 25 09:14:10 2004 From: JRojas at tnco-inc.com (Joe Rojas) Date: Thu, 25 Mar 2004 10:14:10 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Audit Trails Message-ID: <806536912C472E4A9D6515DF2E57261E239765@mercury.tnco-inc.com> We are creating an application that needs to be 21CRF Part11 compliant, which requires audit trails. Has anyone ever implemented an Audit Trail system into his or her Access Database? If so, could you provide some guidance? Links, resources, or examples? Thanks in advance! JR This electronic transmission is strictly confidential to TNCO, Inc. and intended solely for the addressee. It may contain information which is covered by legal, professional, or other privileges. If you are not the intended addressee, or someone authorized by the intended addressee to receive transmissions on behalf of the addressee, you must not retain, disclose in any form, copy, or take any action in reliance on this transmission. If you have received this transmission in error, please notify the sender as soon as possible and destroy this message. While TNCO, Inc. uses virus protection, the recipient should check this email and any attachments for the presence of viruses. TNCO, Inc. accepts no liability for any damage caused by any virus transmitted by this email. From jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com Thu Mar 25 09:25:17 2004 From: jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com (John W. Colby) Date: Thu, 25 Mar 2004 10:25:17 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Audit Trails In-Reply-To: <806536912C472E4A9D6515DF2E57261E239765@mercury.tnco-inc.com> Message-ID: Joe, Can you give guidance as to what is expected of the audit trail? John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Joe Rojas Sent: Thursday, March 25, 2004 10:14 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: [AccessD] Audit Trails We are creating an application that needs to be 21CRF Part11 compliant, which requires audit trails. Has anyone ever implemented an Audit Trail system into his or her Access Database? If so, could you provide some guidance? Links, resources, or examples? Thanks in advance! JR This electronic transmission is strictly confidential to TNCO, Inc. and intended solely for the addressee. It may contain information which is covered by legal, professional, or other privileges. If you are not the intended addressee, or someone authorized by the intended addressee to receive transmissions on behalf of the addressee, you must not retain, disclose in any form, copy, or take any action in reliance on this transmission. If you have received this transmission in error, please notify the sender as soon as possible and destroy this message. While TNCO, Inc. uses virus protection, the recipient should check this email and any attachments for the presence of viruses. TNCO, Inc. accepts no liability for any damage caused by any virus transmitted by this email. -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From gustav at cactus.dk Thu Mar 25 09:32:15 2004 From: gustav at cactus.dk (Gustav Brock) Date: Thu, 25 Mar 2004 16:32:15 +0100 Subject: [AccessD] Audit Trails In-Reply-To: <806536912C472E4A9D6515DF2E57261E239765@mercury.tnco-inc.com> References: <806536912C472E4A9D6515DF2E57261E239765@mercury.tnco-inc.com> Message-ID: <2330323873.20040325163215@cactus.dk> Hi Joe > We are creating an application that needs to be 21CRF Part11 > compliant .. What is that please? /gustav From jwelz at hotmail.com Thu Mar 25 09:49:35 2004 From: jwelz at hotmail.com (Jürgen Welz) Date: Thu, 25 Mar 2004 08:49:35 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] Framework Discussion - set up question Message-ID: I don't believe there is anything inherently incorrect about using the tag property or even storing multiple attributes separated by a delimiter. The difficulty arises when you want to integrate this functionality with existing code developed by someone else. Confilicting usages of the Tag result in the need to resolve code integration issues that arise. There is an excerpt from an O'Reilly Press book by Getz, Litwin and Baron at: http://www.oreilly.com/catalog/accesscook2/chapter/ch07.pdf starting at page 338 (p 47 of the pdf file) that provides a generic routine to set and get built in and user defined properties and create properties that don't exist. Although the code says it doesn't apply to Forms, it looks to me like it should since the code I use is virtually identical. I find the explanations particularly useful for things that learning developers frequently encounter such as the detailed examination of the 'Description' property of various DAO objects. Ciao J?rgen Welz Edmonton, Alberta jwelz at hotmail.com >From: "Developer" >Reply-To: Access Developers discussion and problem >solving >To: "'Access Developers discussion and problem >solving'" >Subject: RE: [AccessD] Framework Discussion - set up question >Date: Thu, 25 Mar 2004 09:45:08 -0500 >MIME-Version: 1.0 >Received: from mc12-f10.hotmail.com ([65.54.167.146]) by >mc12-s6.hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC(5.0.2195.6824); Thu, 25 Mar 2004 >06:44:47 -0800 >Received: from databaseadvisors.com ([209.135.140.44]) by >mc12-f10.hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC(5.0.2195.6824); Thu, 25 Mar >2004 06:44:47 -0800 >Received: from databaseadvisors.com (databaseadvisors.com >[209.135.140.44])by databaseadvisors.com (8.11.6/8.11.6) with ESMTP id >i2PEgpM13141;Thu, 25 Mar 2004 08:42:51 -0600 >Received: from >mail5.atl.registeredsite.com(nobody at mail5.atl.registeredsite.com >[64.224.219.79])by databaseadvisors.com (8.11.6/8.11.6) with ESMTP id >i2PEg6M12589for ; Thu, 25 Mar 2004 08:42:06 >-0600 >Received: from ultradnt.com ([66.223.127.28])by >mail5.atl.registeredsite.com (8.12.8/8.12.8) with ESMTP idi2PFgAZI025498for >; Thu, 25 Mar 2004 10:42:10 -0500 >Received: from COA3 (24-90-29-110.nyc.rr.com [24.90.29.110])by ultradnt.com >(8.11.6/8.11.0) with ESMTP id i2PEg7W37713for >;Thu, 25 Mar 2004 09:42:08 -0500 >(EST)(envelope-from Developer at UltraDNT.com) >X-Message-Info: NDMZeIBu+so8QwkCcmxHyFr1IWDH39BFYAoeFtQz14Y= >Message-ID: <002201c41277$cb044780$6401a8c0 at COA3> >X-MSMail-Priority: Normal >X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook, Build 10.0.4024 >In-Reply-To: >X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2600.0000 >X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by databaseadvisors.com >idi2PEg6M12589 >X-BeenThere: accessd at databaseadvisors.com >X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.4 >Precedence: list >List-Id: Access Developers discussion and problem >solving >List-Help: >List-Post: >List-Subscribe: >, >List-Archive: >List-Unsubscribe: >, >Errors-To: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com >Return-Path: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com >X-OriginalArrivalTime: 25 Mar 2004 14:44:47.0724 (UTC) >FILETIME=[B864D2C0:01C41277] > >Cool, thanks to both of you ... I always thought that using the Tag felt >a bit "hack-y" > >Steve > > >-----Original Message----- >From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com >[mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of John W. Colby >Sent: Thursday, March 25, 2004 7:15 AM >To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving >Subject: RE: [AccessD] Framework Discussion - set up question > > >This is a great way to store control related stuff that you wish to >remain private since so few people even know that you can do this. Just >don't let Jurgen get a hold of it. ;-) > >John W. Colby >www.ColbyConsulting.com > >-----Original Message----- >From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com >[mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of J?rgen Welz >Sent: Thursday, March 25, 2004 1:15 AM >To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com >Subject: RE: [AccessD] Framework Discussion - set up question > > >I've posted the following before but perhaps should mention it again: I >too avoid using the tag. One may instead add user defined properties to >the form by appending to the properties collection of the form document. >You may add a property in the name of each control and read and write >these properties. The properties are persistent and apply to all >created instances of forms from the documents collections. Using a >property with the same name as a control or directly derived from the >control name by appending a prefix or suffix makes it as easy to iterate >as the controls collection and provides a simple means to connect >control and property. > >I guess the alternative is a naming convention for the type of combo. > >Ciao >J?rgen Welz >Edmonton, Alberta >jwelz at hotmail.com > > > > > > > >I don't see exactly where to tell the fw that , for example, on 2 > >different > >combo's Not In List, I want combo1 to pop a form for data-entry, but > >combo2 to silently undo and reject the newdata. Should this be set in > >the Tag property? . >. >. > >The bottom line is that the form scanning is difficult to program for > >this kind of stuff directly unless you do use the tag property and I > >have a personal distaste for using the tag so I don't. My good friend > >William started me moving away from using tags. He said "just give me > >a method to directly program behaviors and I'll do it explicitly". Now > > >I do just that. > > > >John W. Colby > >www.ColbyConsulting.com > > > >-----Original Message----- > >From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > >[mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Developer > >Sent: Wednesday, March 24, 2004 9:17 AM > >To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' > >Subject: RE: [AccessD] Framework Discussion - set up question > > > > > >I;ve been not able to read all the mail on the FW closely for the past > >week, so sorry if this is a repeat. I "get" the idea, and the form > >scanning, but I don't see exaclty where to tell the fw that , for > >example, on 2 different combo's Not In List, I want combo1 to pop a > >form for data-entry, but combo2 to silently undo and reject the > >newdata. Should this be set in the Tag property? > > > >Tia, > >Steve > >_________________________________________________________________ >Free yourself from those irritating pop-up ads with MSn Premium. Get >2months >FREE* >http://join.msn.com/?pgmarket=en-ca&page=byoa/prem&xAPID=1994&DI=1034&SU >=htt >p://hotmail.com/enca&HL=Market_MSNIS_Taglines > >-- >_______________________________________________ >AccessD mailing list >AccessD at databaseadvisors.com >http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd >Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > >-- >_______________________________________________ >AccessD mailing list >AccessD at databaseadvisors.com >http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd >Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > >-- >_______________________________________________ >AccessD mailing list >AccessD at databaseadvisors.com >http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd >Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com _________________________________________________________________ MSN Premium helps eliminate e-mail viruses. Get 2 months FREE* http://join.msn.com/?pgmarket=en-ca&page=byoa/prem&xAPID=1994&DI=1034&SU=http://hotmail.com/enca&HL=Market_MSNIS_Taglines From JRojas at tnco-inc.com Thu Mar 25 09:56:31 2004 From: JRojas at tnco-inc.com (Joe Rojas) Date: Thu, 25 Mar 2004 10:56:31 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Audit Trails Message-ID: <806536912C472E4A9D6515DF2E57261E239766@mercury.tnco-inc.com> Replying to both John and Gustav. We are creating a system to handle all our returns/repairs that come into the building. We manufacture medical instruments and it was determined that this type of system needs to be 21CRF Part 11 compliant. In reality we already have this system created and implemented, but at the time we did not know that it needed to be 21CRF Part 11 compliant so now we are looking at how to make it so. As a side note, we are looking to convert it from a full Access application to a SQL Server 7 backend with A2k FE. As for what we expect the audit trail to do, we need it to keep track who made of additions, deletions, and changes to the data in the system and when. With regards to changes, we need to know what was changed. I suppose login failures who be useful to track also. JR -----Original Message----- From: Gustav Brock [mailto:gustav at cactus.dk] Sent: Thursday, March 25, 2004 10:32 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Audit Trails Hi Joe > We are creating an application that needs to be 21CRF Part11 > compliant .. What is that please? /gustav -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com This electronic transmission is strictly confidential to TNCO, Inc. and intended solely for the addressee. It may contain information which is covered by legal, professional, or other privileges. If you are not the intended addressee, or someone authorized by the intended addressee to receive transmissions on behalf of the addressee, you must not retain, disclose in any form, copy, or take any action in reliance on this transmission. If you have received this transmission in error, please notify the sender as soon as possible and destroy this message. While TNCO, Inc. uses virus protection, the recipient should check this email and any attachments for the presence of viruses. TNCO, Inc. accepts no liability for any damage caused by any virus transmitted by this email. From dwaters at usinternet.com Thu Mar 25 10:07:04 2004 From: dwaters at usinternet.com (Dan Waters) Date: Thu, 25 Mar 2004 10:07:04 -0600 Subject: [AccessD] Audit Trails In-Reply-To: <12260461.1080227949530.JavaMail.root@sniper3.marix.com> Message-ID: <001001c41283$371930b0$de1811d8@DanWaters> Joe, I have studied these requirements, and they are significant. Your first step is to contact the Regulatory Manager to review the Part 11 requirements for electronic records and electronic signatures. It may be that you won't be able to use Access simply because Access is not as secure as other systems, i.e., SQL Server. In addition, the rules are not set in stone. Each company must demonstrate to the FDA how their interpretation of the Part 11 requirements fits the medical risk associated with your products or services. For example, a company that makes dental floss has a lower risk than one that makes pacemakers. Before you do anything else, talk with the Regulatory Manager first! If you'd like more information after that, let me know. Dan Waters ProMation Systems, Inc. -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Joe Rojas Sent: Thursday, March 25, 2004 9:14 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: [AccessD] Audit Trails We are creating an application that needs to be 21CRF Part11 compliant, which requires audit trails. Has anyone ever implemented an Audit Trail system into his or her Access Database? If so, could you provide some guidance? Links, resources, or examples? Thanks in advance! JR This electronic transmission is strictly confidential to TNCO, Inc. and intended solely for the addressee. It may contain information which is covered by legal, professional, or other privileges. If you are not the intended addressee, or someone authorized by the intended addressee to receive transmissions on behalf of the addressee, you must not retain, disclose in any form, copy, or take any action in reliance on this transmission. If you have received this transmission in error, please notify the sender as soon as possible and destroy this message. While TNCO, Inc. uses virus protection, the recipient should check this email and any attachments for the presence of viruses. TNCO, Inc. accepts no liability for any damage caused by any virus transmitted by this email. -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From Jdemarco at hudsonhealthplan.org Thu Mar 25 10:09:26 2004 From: Jdemarco at hudsonhealthplan.org (Jim DeMarco) Date: Thu, 25 Mar 2004 11:09:26 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Framework Discussion - Another poll Message-ID: <22F1CCD5171D17419CB37FEEE09D5F99030FE60D@TTNEXCHSRV1.hshhp.com> Archiving them to read later. Jim DeMarco *********************************************************************************** "This electronic message is intended to be for the use only of the named recipient, and may contain information from Hudson Health Plan (HHP) that is confidential or privileged. If you are not the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any disclosure, copying, distribution or use of the contents of this message is strictly prohibited. If you have received this message in error or are not the named recipient, please notify us immediately, either by contacting the sender at the electronic mail address noted above or calling HHP at (914) 631-1611. If you are not the intended recipient, please do not forward this email to anyone, and delete and destroy all copies of this message. Thank You". *********************************************************************************** From cfoust at infostatsystems.com Thu Mar 25 10:25:31 2004 From: cfoust at infostatsystems.com (Charlotte Foust) Date: Thu, 25 Mar 2004 08:25:31 -0800 Subject: [AccessD] Framework Discussion - set up question Message-ID: In that case, why not just use a custom property and leave the tag alone? Charlotte Foust -----Original Message----- From: J?rgen Welz [mailto:jwelz at hotmail.com] Sent: Thursday, March 25, 2004 7:50 AM To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: RE: [AccessD] Framework Discussion - set up question I don't believe there is anything inherently incorrect about using the tag property or even storing multiple attributes separated by a delimiter. The difficulty arises when you want to integrate this functionality with existing code developed by someone else. Confilicting usages of the Tag result in the need to resolve code integration issues that arise. There is an excerpt from an O'Reilly Press book by Getz, Litwin and Baron at: http://www.oreilly.com/catalog/accesscook2/chapter/ch07.pdf starting at page 338 (p 47 of the pdf file) that provides a generic routine to set and get built in and user defined properties and create properties that don't exist. Although the code says it doesn't apply to Forms, it looks to me like it should since the code I use is virtually identical. I find the explanations particularly useful for things that learning developers frequently encounter such as the detailed examination of the 'Description' property of various DAO objects. Ciao J?rgen Welz Edmonton, Alberta jwelz at hotmail.com >From: "Developer" >Reply-To: Access Developers discussion and problem >solving >To: "'Access Developers discussion and problem >solving'" >Subject: RE: [AccessD] Framework Discussion - set up question >Date: Thu, 25 Mar 2004 09:45:08 -0500 >MIME-Version: 1.0 >Received: from mc12-f10.hotmail.com ([65.54.167.146]) by >mc12-s6.hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC(5.0.2195.6824); Thu, 25 Mar 2004 >06:44:47 -0800 >Received: from databaseadvisors.com ([209.135.140.44]) by >mc12-f10.hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC(5.0.2195.6824); Thu, 25 Mar >2004 06:44:47 -0800 >Received: from databaseadvisors.com (databaseadvisors.com >[209.135.140.44])by databaseadvisors.com (8.11.6/8.11.6) with ESMTP id >i2PEgpM13141;Thu, 25 Mar 2004 08:42:51 -0600 >Received: from >mail5.atl.registeredsite.com(nobody at mail5.atl.registeredsite.com >[64.224.219.79])by databaseadvisors.com (8.11.6/8.11.6) with ESMTP id >i2PEg6M12589for ; Thu, 25 Mar 2004 08:42:06 >-0600 >Received: from ultradnt.com ([66.223.127.28])by >mail5.atl.registeredsite.com (8.12.8/8.12.8) with ESMTP idi2PFgAZI025498for >; Thu, 25 Mar 2004 10:42:10 -0500 >Received: from COA3 (24-90-29-110.nyc.rr.com [24.90.29.110])by ultradnt.com >(8.11.6/8.11.0) with ESMTP id i2PEg7W37713for >;Thu, 25 Mar 2004 09:42:08 -0500 >(EST)(envelope-from Developer at UltraDNT.com) >X-Message-Info: NDMZeIBu+so8QwkCcmxHyFr1IWDH39BFYAoeFtQz14Y= >Message-ID: <002201c41277$cb044780$6401a8c0 at COA3> >X-MSMail-Priority: Normal >X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook, Build 10.0.4024 >In-Reply-To: >X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2600.0000 >X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by databaseadvisors.com >idi2PEg6M12589 >X-BeenThere: accessd at databaseadvisors.com >X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.4 >Precedence: list >List-Id: Access Developers discussion and problem >solving >List-Help: >List-Post: >List-Subscribe: >, >List-Archive: >List-Unsubscribe: >, >Errors-To: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com >Return-Path: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com >X-OriginalArrivalTime: 25 Mar 2004 14:44:47.0724 (UTC) >FILETIME=[B864D2C0:01C41277] > >Cool, thanks to both of you ... I always thought that using the Tag >felt a bit "hack-y" > >Steve > > >-----Original Message----- >From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com >[mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of John W. >Colby >Sent: Thursday, March 25, 2004 7:15 AM >To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving >Subject: RE: [AccessD] Framework Discussion - set up question > > >This is a great way to store control related stuff that you wish to >remain private since so few people even know that you can do this. >Just don't let Jurgen get a hold of it. ;-) > >John W. Colby >www.ColbyConsulting.com > >-----Original Message----- >From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com >[mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of J?rgen Welz >Sent: Thursday, March 25, 2004 1:15 AM >To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com >Subject: RE: [AccessD] Framework Discussion - set up question > > >I've posted the following before but perhaps should mention it again: >I too avoid using the tag. One may instead add user defined properties >to the form by appending to the properties collection of the form >document. You may add a property in the name of each control and read >and write these properties. The properties are persistent and apply to >all created instances of forms from the documents collections. Using a >property with the same name as a control or directly derived from the >control name by appending a prefix or suffix makes it as easy to >iterate as the controls collection and provides a simple means to >connect control and property. > >I guess the alternative is a naming convention for the type of combo. > >Ciao >J?rgen Welz >Edmonton, Alberta >jwelz at hotmail.com > > > > > > > >I don't see exactly where to tell the fw that , for example, on 2 > >different > >combo's Not In List, I want combo1 to pop a form for data-entry, but > >combo2 to silently undo and reject the newdata. Should this be set > >in the Tag property? . >. >. > >The bottom line is that the form scanning is difficult to program for > >this kind of stuff directly unless you do use the tag property and I > >have a personal distaste for using the tag so I don't. My good > >friend William started me moving away from using tags. He said "just > >give me a method to directly program behaviors and I'll do it > >explicitly". Now > > >I do just that. > > > >John W. Colby > >www.ColbyConsulting.com > > > >-----Original Message----- > >From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > >[mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Developer > >Sent: Wednesday, March 24, 2004 9:17 AM > >To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' > >Subject: RE: [AccessD] Framework Discussion - set up question > > > > > >I;ve been not able to read all the mail on the FW closely for the > >past week, so sorry if this is a repeat. I "get" the idea, and the > >form scanning, but I don't see exaclty where to tell the fw that , > >for example, on 2 different combo's Not In List, I want combo1 to pop > >a form for data-entry, but combo2 to silently undo and reject the > >newdata. Should this be set in the Tag property? > > > >Tia, > >Steve > >_________________________________________________________________ >Free yourself from those irritating pop-up ads with MSn Premium. Get >2months >FREE* >http://join.msn.com/?pgmarket=en-ca&page=byoa/prem&xAPID=1994&DI=1034&S >U >=htt >p://hotmail.com/enca&HL=Market_MSNIS_Taglines > >-- >_______________________________________________ >AccessD mailing list >AccessD at databaseadvisors.com >http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd >Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > >-- >_______________________________________________ >AccessD mailing list >AccessD at databaseadvisors.com >http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd >Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > >-- >_______________________________________________ >AccessD mailing list >AccessD at databaseadvisors.com >http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd >Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com _________________________________________________________________ MSN Premium helps eliminate e-mail viruses. Get 2 months FREE* http://join.msn.com/?pgmarket=en-ca&page=byoa/prem&xAPID=1994&DI=1034&SU=http://hotmail.com/enca&HL=Market_MSNIS_Taglines -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From cfoust at infostatsystems.com Thu Mar 25 10:30:18 2004 From: cfoust at infostatsystems.com (Charlotte Foust) Date: Thu, 25 Mar 2004 08:30:18 -0800 Subject: [AccessD] Framework Discussion - set up question Message-ID: Sorry everyone. I wrote this before I read the earlier posts in the thread. Charlotte Foust -----Original Message----- From: Charlotte Foust Sent: Thursday, March 25, 2004 8:26 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] Framework Discussion - set up question In that case, why not just use a custom property and leave the tag alone? Charlotte Foust -----Original Message----- From: J?rgen Welz [mailto:jwelz at hotmail.com] Sent: Thursday, March 25, 2004 7:50 AM To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: RE: [AccessD] Framework Discussion - set up question I don't believe there is anything inherently incorrect about using the tag property or even storing multiple attributes separated by a delimiter. The difficulty arises when you want to integrate this functionality with existing code developed by someone else. Confilicting usages of the Tag result in the need to resolve code integration issues that arise. There is an excerpt from an O'Reilly Press book by Getz, Litwin and Baron at: http://www.oreilly.com/catalog/accesscook2/chapter/ch07.pdf starting at page 338 (p 47 of the pdf file) that provides a generic routine to set and get built in and user defined properties and create properties that don't exist. Although the code says it doesn't apply to Forms, it looks to me like it should since the code I use is virtually identical. I find the explanations particularly useful for things that learning developers frequently encounter such as the detailed examination of the 'Description' property of various DAO objects. Ciao J?rgen Welz Edmonton, Alberta jwelz at hotmail.com >From: "Developer" >Reply-To: Access Developers discussion and problem >solving >To: "'Access Developers discussion and problem >solving'" >Subject: RE: [AccessD] Framework Discussion - set up question >Date: Thu, 25 Mar 2004 09:45:08 -0500 >MIME-Version: 1.0 >Received: from mc12-f10.hotmail.com ([65.54.167.146]) by >mc12-s6.hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC(5.0.2195.6824); Thu, 25 Mar 2004 >06:44:47 -0800 >Received: from databaseadvisors.com ([209.135.140.44]) by >mc12-f10.hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC(5.0.2195.6824); Thu, 25 Mar >2004 06:44:47 -0800 >Received: from databaseadvisors.com (databaseadvisors.com >[209.135.140.44])by databaseadvisors.com (8.11.6/8.11.6) with ESMTP id >i2PEgpM13141;Thu, 25 Mar 2004 08:42:51 -0600 >Received: from >mail5.atl.registeredsite.com(nobody at mail5.atl.registeredsite.com >[64.224.219.79])by databaseadvisors.com (8.11.6/8.11.6) with ESMTP id >i2PEg6M12589for ; Thu, 25 Mar 2004 08:42:06 >-0600 >Received: from ultradnt.com ([66.223.127.28])by >mail5.atl.registeredsite.com (8.12.8/8.12.8) with ESMTP idi2PFgAZI025498for >; Thu, 25 Mar 2004 10:42:10 -0500 >Received: from COA3 (24-90-29-110.nyc.rr.com [24.90.29.110])by ultradnt.com >(8.11.6/8.11.0) with ESMTP id i2PEg7W37713for >;Thu, 25 Mar 2004 09:42:08 -0500 >(EST)(envelope-from Developer at UltraDNT.com) >X-Message-Info: NDMZeIBu+so8QwkCcmxHyFr1IWDH39BFYAoeFtQz14Y= >Message-ID: <002201c41277$cb044780$6401a8c0 at COA3> >X-MSMail-Priority: Normal >X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook, Build 10.0.4024 >In-Reply-To: >X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2600.0000 >X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by databaseadvisors.com >idi2PEg6M12589 >X-BeenThere: accessd at databaseadvisors.com >X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.4 >Precedence: list >List-Id: Access Developers discussion and problem >solving >List-Help: >List-Post: >List-Subscribe: >, >List-Archive: >List-Unsubscribe: >, >Errors-To: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com >Return-Path: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com >X-OriginalArrivalTime: 25 Mar 2004 14:44:47.0724 (UTC) >FILETIME=[B864D2C0:01C41277] > >Cool, thanks to both of you ... I always thought that using the Tag >felt a bit "hack-y" > >Steve > > >-----Original Message----- >From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com >[mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of John W. >Colby >Sent: Thursday, March 25, 2004 7:15 AM >To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving >Subject: RE: [AccessD] Framework Discussion - set up question > > >This is a great way to store control related stuff that you wish to >remain private since so few people even know that you can do this. >Just don't let Jurgen get a hold of it. ;-) > >John W. Colby >www.ColbyConsulting.com > >-----Original Message----- >From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com >[mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of J?rgen Welz >Sent: Thursday, March 25, 2004 1:15 AM >To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com >Subject: RE: [AccessD] Framework Discussion - set up question > > >I've posted the following before but perhaps should mention it again: >I too avoid using the tag. One may instead add user defined properties >to the form by appending to the properties collection of the form >document. You may add a property in the name of each control and read >and write these properties. The properties are persistent and apply to >all created instances of forms from the documents collections. Using a >property with the same name as a control or directly derived from the >control name by appending a prefix or suffix makes it as easy to >iterate as the controls collection and provides a simple means to >connect control and property. > >I guess the alternative is a naming convention for the type of combo. > >Ciao >J?rgen Welz >Edmonton, Alberta >jwelz at hotmail.com > > > > > > > >I don't see exactly where to tell the fw that , for example, on 2 > >different > >combo's Not In List, I want combo1 to pop a form for data-entry, but > >combo2 to silently undo and reject the newdata. Should this be set > >in the Tag property? . >. >. > >The bottom line is that the form scanning is difficult to program for > >this kind of stuff directly unless you do use the tag property and I > >have a personal distaste for using the tag so I don't. My good > >friend William started me moving away from using tags. He said "just > >give me a method to directly program behaviors and I'll do it > >explicitly". Now > > >I do just that. > > > >John W. Colby > >www.ColbyConsulting.com > > > >-----Original Message----- > >From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > >[mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Developer > >Sent: Wednesday, March 24, 2004 9:17 AM > >To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' > >Subject: RE: [AccessD] Framework Discussion - set up question > > > > > >I;ve been not able to read all the mail on the FW closely for the > >past week, so sorry if this is a repeat. I "get" the idea, and the > >form scanning, but I don't see exaclty where to tell the fw that , > >for example, on 2 different combo's Not In List, I want combo1 to pop > >a form for data-entry, but combo2 to silently undo and reject the > >newdata. Should this be set in the Tag property? > > > >Tia, > >Steve > >_________________________________________________________________ >Free yourself from those irritating pop-up ads with MSn Premium. Get >2months >FREE* >http://join.msn.com/?pgmarket=en-ca&page=byoa/prem&xAPID=1994&DI=1034&S >U >=htt >p://hotmail.com/enca&HL=Market_MSNIS_Taglines > >-- >_______________________________________________ >AccessD mailing list >AccessD at databaseadvisors.com >http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd >Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > >-- >_______________________________________________ >AccessD mailing list >AccessD at databaseadvisors.com >http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd >Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > >-- >_______________________________________________ >AccessD mailing list >AccessD at databaseadvisors.com >http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd >Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com _________________________________________________________________ MSN Premium helps eliminate e-mail viruses. Get 2 months FREE* http://join.msn.com/?pgmarket=en-ca&page=byoa/prem&xAPID=1994&DI=1034&SU=http://hotmail.com/enca&HL=Market_MSNIS_Taglines -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From jwelz at hotmail.com Thu Mar 25 10:51:05 2004 From: jwelz at hotmail.com (Jürgen Welz) Date: Thu, 25 Mar 2004 09:51:05 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] Framework Discussion - set up question Message-ID: That's a bit like saying not to use the description property because someone else somewhere might have a conflicting use for it. The Tag exists to be used and abused. For a little standalone MDE why not use it where it fits the need? When you're building a framework for other people to use, it makes a great deal of sense not to use it because of the very real probability of conflict. While it may be beneficial to cultivate the habit of not using the Tag, it does not help to disparage its use by others. I suspect that as a built in property, its use is easy to understand and although I haven't tested, Tags certainly won't be slower than custom properties. Ciao J?rgen Welz Edmonton, Alberta jwelz at hotmail.com >From: "Charlotte Foust" > >In that case, why not just use a custom property and leave the tag alone? > >Charlotte Foust > >-----Original Message----- >From: J?rgen Welz [mailto:jwelz at hotmail.com] >Sent: Thursday, March 25, 2004 7:50 AM >To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com >Subject: RE: [AccessD] Framework Discussion - set up question > > >I don't believe there is anything inherently incorrect about using the tag >property or even storing multiple attributes separated by a delimiter. The >difficulty arises when you want to integrate this functionality with >existing code developed by someone else. Confilicting usages of the Tag >result in the need to resolve code integration issues that arise. > >There is an excerpt from an O'Reilly Press book by Getz, Litwin and Baron >at: > >http://www.oreilly.com/catalog/accesscook2/chapter/ch07.pdf > >starting at page 338 (p 47 of the pdf file) that provides a generic routine >to set and get built in and user defined properties and create properties >that don't exist. Although the code says it doesn't apply to Forms, it >looks to me like it should since the code I use is virtually identical. I >find the explanations particularly useful for things that learning >developers frequently encounter such as the detailed examination of the >'Description' property of various DAO objects. > > >Ciao >J?rgen Welz >Edmonton, Alberta >jwelz at hotmail.com _________________________________________________________________ http://join.msn.com/?pgmarket=en-ca&page=byoa/prem&xAPID=1994&DI=1034&SU=http://hotmail.com/enca&HL=Market_MSNIS_Taglines From Developer at UltraDNT.com Thu Mar 25 11:02:07 2004 From: Developer at UltraDNT.com (Developer) Date: Thu, 25 Mar 2004 12:02:07 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Framework Discussion - set up question In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <003e01c4128a$ecf1e880$6401a8c0@COA3> My comment that Tag feels hacky, I guess is over-stating it ... But Tag sort of seems to me a shortcut like dlookup or docmd; as professionals we should have a better way. But either way not worthy of a bound/unbound or bang/dot level discussion! Steve -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Charlotte Foust Sent: Thursday, March 25, 2004 11:26 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] Framework Discussion - set up question In that case, why not just use a custom property and leave the tag alone? Charlotte Foust -----Original Message----- From: J?rgen Welz [mailto:jwelz at hotmail.com] Sent: Thursday, March 25, 2004 7:50 AM To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: RE: [AccessD] Framework Discussion - set up question I don't believe there is anything inherently incorrect about using the tag property or even storing multiple attributes separated by a delimiter. The difficulty arises when you want to integrate this functionality with existing code developed by someone else. Confilicting usages of the Tag result in the need to resolve code integration issues that arise. There is an excerpt from an O'Reilly Press book by Getz, Litwin and Baron at: http://www.oreilly.com/catalog/accesscook2/chapter/ch07.pdf starting at page 338 (p 47 of the pdf file) that provides a generic routine to set and get built in and user defined properties and create properties that don't exist. Although the code says it doesn't apply to Forms, it looks to me like it should since the code I use is virtually identical. I find the explanations particularly useful for things that learning developers frequently encounter such as the detailed examination of the 'Description' property of various DAO objects. Ciao J?rgen Welz Edmonton, Alberta jwelz at hotmail.com >From: "Developer" >Reply-To: Access Developers discussion and problem >solving >To: "'Access Developers discussion and problem >solving'" >Subject: RE: [AccessD] Framework Discussion - set up question >Date: Thu, 25 Mar 2004 09:45:08 -0500 >MIME-Version: 1.0 >Received: from mc12-f10.hotmail.com ([65.54.167.146]) by >mc12-s6.hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC(5.0.2195.6824); Thu, 25 Mar 2004 >06:44:47 -0800 >Received: from databaseadvisors.com ([209.135.140.44]) by >mc12-f10.hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC(5.0.2195.6824); Thu, 25 Mar >2004 06:44:47 -0800 >Received: from databaseadvisors.com (databaseadvisors.com >[209.135.140.44])by databaseadvisors.com (8.11.6/8.11.6) with ESMTP id >i2PEgpM13141;Thu, 25 Mar 2004 08:42:51 -0600 >Received: from >mail5.atl.registeredsite.com(nobody at mail5.atl.registeredsite.com >[64.224.219.79])by databaseadvisors.com (8.11.6/8.11.6) with ESMTP id >i2PEg6M12589for ; Thu, 25 Mar 2004 08:42:06 >-0600 >Received: from ultradnt.com ([66.223.127.28])by >mail5.atl.registeredsite.com (8.12.8/8.12.8) with ESMTP idi2PFgAZI025498for >; Thu, 25 Mar 2004 10:42:10 -0500 >Received: from COA3 (24-90-29-110.nyc.rr.com [24.90.29.110])by ultradnt.com >(8.11.6/8.11.0) with ESMTP id i2PEg7W37713for >;Thu, 25 Mar 2004 09:42:08 -0500 >(EST)(envelope-from Developer at UltraDNT.com) >X-Message-Info: NDMZeIBu+so8QwkCcmxHyFr1IWDH39BFYAoeFtQz14Y= >Message-ID: <002201c41277$cb044780$6401a8c0 at COA3> >X-MSMail-Priority: Normal >X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook, Build 10.0.4024 >In-Reply-To: >X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2600.0000 >X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by databaseadvisors.com >idi2PEg6M12589 >X-BeenThere: accessd at databaseadvisors.com >X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.4 >Precedence: list >List-Id: Access Developers discussion and problem >solving >List-Help: >List-Post: >List-Subscribe: >, >List-Archive: >List-Unsubscribe: >, >Errors-To: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com >Return-Path: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com >X-OriginalArrivalTime: 25 Mar 2004 14:44:47.0724 (UTC) >FILETIME=[B864D2C0:01C41277] > >Cool, thanks to both of you ... I always thought that using the Tag >felt a bit "hack-y" > >Steve > > >-----Original Message----- >From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com >[mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of John W. >Colby >Sent: Thursday, March 25, 2004 7:15 AM >To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving >Subject: RE: [AccessD] Framework Discussion - set up question > > >This is a great way to store control related stuff that you wish to >remain private since so few people even know that you can do this. >Just don't let Jurgen get a hold of it. ;-) > >John W. Colby >www.ColbyConsulting.com > >-----Original Message----- >From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com >[mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of J?rgen Welz >Sent: Thursday, March 25, 2004 1:15 AM >To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com >Subject: RE: [AccessD] Framework Discussion - set up question > > >I've posted the following before but perhaps should mention it again: >I too avoid using the tag. One may instead add user defined properties >to the form by appending to the properties collection of the form >document. You may add a property in the name of each control and read >and write these properties. The properties are persistent and apply to >all created instances of forms from the documents collections. Using a >property with the same name as a control or directly derived from the >control name by appending a prefix or suffix makes it as easy to >iterate as the controls collection and provides a simple means to >connect control and property. > >I guess the alternative is a naming convention for the type of combo. > >Ciao >J?rgen Welz >Edmonton, Alberta >jwelz at hotmail.com > > > > > > > >I don't see exactly where to tell the fw that , for example, on 2 > >different > >combo's Not In List, I want combo1 to pop a form for data-entry, but > >combo2 to silently undo and reject the newdata. Should this be set > >in the Tag property? . >. >. > >The bottom line is that the form scanning is difficult to program for > >this kind of stuff directly unless you do use the tag property and I > >have a personal distaste for using the tag so I don't. My good > >friend William started me moving away from using tags. He said "just > >give me a method to directly program behaviors and I'll do it > >explicitly". Now > > >I do just that. > > > >John W. Colby > >www.ColbyConsulting.com > > > >-----Original Message----- > >From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > >[mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Developer > >Sent: Wednesday, March 24, 2004 9:17 AM > >To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' > >Subject: RE: [AccessD] Framework Discussion - set up question > > > > > >I;ve been not able to read all the mail on the FW closely for the > >past week, so sorry if this is a repeat. I "get" the idea, and the > >form scanning, but I don't see exaclty where to tell the fw that , > >for example, on 2 different combo's Not In List, I want combo1 to pop > >a form for data-entry, but combo2 to silently undo and reject the > >newdata. Should this be set in the Tag property? > > > >Tia, > >Steve > >_________________________________________________________________ >Free yourself from those irritating pop-up ads with MSn Premium. Get >2months >FREE* >http://join.msn.com/?pgmarket=en-ca&page=byoa/prem&xAPID=1994&DI=1034&S >U >=htt >p://hotmail.com/enca&HL=Market_MSNIS_Taglines > >-- >_______________________________________________ >AccessD mailing list >AccessD at databaseadvisors.com >http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd >Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > >-- >_______________________________________________ >AccessD mailing list >AccessD at databaseadvisors.com >http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd >Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > >-- >_______________________________________________ >AccessD mailing list >AccessD at databaseadvisors.com >http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd >Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com _________________________________________________________________ MSN Premium helps eliminate e-mail viruses. Get 2 months FREE* http://join.msn.com/?pgmarket=en-ca&page=byoa/prem&xAPID=1994&DI=1034&SU =http://hotmail.com/enca&HL=Market_MSNIS_Taglines -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From ssharkins at bellsouth.net Thu Mar 25 11:02:44 2004 From: ssharkins at bellsouth.net (Susan Harkins) Date: Thu, 25 Mar 2004 12:02:44 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Framework Discussion - set up question In-Reply-To: <003e01c4128a$ecf1e880$6401a8c0@COA3> Message-ID: <20040325170239.KMI1780.imf23aec.mail.bellsouth.net@SUSANONE> Personally, I was hoping for a discussion of the validity and value of lookup fields. AHAHAAAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA Susan H. My comment that Tag feels hacky, I guess is over-stating it ... But Tag sort of seems to me a shortcut like dlookup or docmd; as professionals we should have a better way. But either way not worthy of a bound/unbound or bang/dot level discussion! From john at winhaven.net Thu Mar 25 11:46:46 2004 From: john at winhaven.net (John Bartow) Date: Thu, 25 Mar 2004 11:46:46 -0600 Subject: [AccessD] Framework Discussion - set up question In-Reply-To: <20040325170239.KMI1780.imf23aec.mail.bellsouth.net@SUSANONE> Message-ID: Susan, I've seen people joke about this before and I've just assumed I knew what they were referring to ("hard coded" delimited lists that are not stored in a table). Is this a correct assumption? John B. -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Susan Harkins Sent: Thursday, March 25, 2004 11:03 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: [AccessD] Framework Discussion - set up question Personally, I was hoping for a discussion of the validity and value of lookup fields. AHAHAAAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA Susan H. From cfoust at infostatsystems.com Thu Mar 25 11:47:39 2004 From: cfoust at infostatsystems.com (Charlotte Foust) Date: Thu, 25 Mar 2004 09:47:39 -0800 Subject: [AccessD] Framework Discussion - set up question Message-ID: But I *don't* use the description property. I create custom properties for things like DisplayName. Actually, I do use the tag when I set up labels to use as clickable column headers to sort by that column. I put the field name in the tag. But, of course, my label class checks to see if the tag is populated and just ignores the click if it isn't. Charlotte Foust -----Original Message----- From: J?rgen Welz [mailto:jwelz at hotmail.com] Sent: Thursday, March 25, 2004 8:51 AM To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: RE: [AccessD] Framework Discussion - set up question That's a bit like saying not to use the description property because someone else somewhere might have a conflicting use for it. The Tag exists to be used and abused. For a little standalone MDE why not use it where it fits the need? When you're building a framework for other people to use, it makes a great deal of sense not to use it because of the very real probability of conflict. While it may be beneficial to cultivate the habit of not using the Tag, it does not help to disparage its use by others. I suspect that as a built in property, its use is easy to understand and although I haven't tested, Tags certainly won't be slower than custom properties. Ciao J?rgen Welz Edmonton, Alberta jwelz at hotmail.com >From: "Charlotte Foust" > >In that case, why not just use a custom property and leave the tag >alone? > >Charlotte Foust > >-----Original Message----- >From: J?rgen Welz [mailto:jwelz at hotmail.com] >Sent: Thursday, March 25, 2004 7:50 AM >To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com >Subject: RE: [AccessD] Framework Discussion - set up question > > >I don't believe there is anything inherently incorrect about using the >tag property or even storing multiple attributes separated by a >delimiter. The difficulty arises when you want to integrate this >functionality with existing code developed by someone else. >Confilicting usages of the Tag result in the need to resolve code >integration issues that arise. > >There is an excerpt from an O'Reilly Press book by Getz, Litwin and >Baron >at: > >http://www.oreilly.com/catalog/accesscook2/chapter/ch07.pdf > >starting at page 338 (p 47 of the pdf file) that provides a generic >routine to set and get built in and user defined properties and create >properties that don't exist. Although the code says it doesn't apply >to Forms, it looks to me like it should since the code I use is >virtually identical. I find the explanations particularly useful for >things that learning developers frequently encounter such as the >detailed examination of the 'Description' property of various DAO >objects. > > >Ciao >J?rgen Welz >Edmonton, Alberta >jwelz at hotmail.com _________________________________________________________________ http://join.msn.com/?pgmarket=en-ca&page=byoa/prem&xAPID=1994&DI=1034&SU=http://hotmail.com/enca&HL=Market_MSNIS_Taglines -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From ssharkins at bellsouth.net Thu Mar 25 12:02:42 2004 From: ssharkins at bellsouth.net (Susan Harkins) Date: Thu, 25 Mar 2004 13:02:42 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Framework Discussion - set up question In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <20040325180237.HNFS1729.imf24aec.mail.bellsouth.net@SUSANONE> No. :) I'm talking about the built-in lookup field feature that lets you display a related value from another table. Open a table in Design view and click the Lookup tab in the Properties pane. Developers soundly trash them, but I find them rather cool -- and if abused, is that Access's fault? ;) I'm mostly in favor of anything that makes Access more available to the average user -- it IS a desktop application after all. No, I don't use them, and I often have to "undo" them in Northwind when I'm using that db in an article example, but I can see why users would like and use them. Here we goooooooooooooooooooo! ;) Susan H. Susan, I've seen people joke about this before and I've just assumed I knew what they were referring to ("hard coded" delimited lists that are not stored in a table). Is this a correct assumption? From cfoust at infostatsystems.com Thu Mar 25 12:20:18 2004 From: cfoust at infostatsystems.com (Charlotte Foust) Date: Thu, 25 Mar 2004 10:20:18 -0800 Subject: [AccessD] Framework Discussion - set up question Message-ID: >> I'm mostly in favor of anything that makes Access more available to the average user -- it IS a desktop application after all. Are you TRYING to start a fight, Susan?!!? Most of us have been trying for years to convince Microsoft that this is NOT a desktop application, it's a tool to *build* desktop applications. Let the flames begin! Charlotte Foust -----Original Message----- From: Susan Harkins [mailto:ssharkins at bellsouth.net] Sent: Thursday, March 25, 2004 10:03 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: [AccessD] Framework Discussion - set up question No. :) I'm talking about the built-in lookup field feature that lets you display a related value from another table. Open a table in Design view and click the Lookup tab in the Properties pane. Developers soundly trash them, but I find them rather cool -- and if abused, is that Access's fault? ;) I'm mostly in favor of anything that makes Access more available to the average user -- it IS a desktop application after all. No, I don't use them, and I often have to "undo" them in Northwind when I'm using that db in an article example, but I can see why users would like and use them. Here we goooooooooooooooooooo! ;) Susan H. Susan, I've seen people joke about this before and I've just assumed I knew what they were referring to ("hard coded" delimited lists that are not stored in a table). Is this a correct assumption? -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From john at winhaven.net Thu Mar 25 12:38:45 2004 From: john at winhaven.net (John Bartow) Date: Thu, 25 Mar 2004 12:38:45 -0600 Subject: [AccessD] Framework Discussion - set up question In-Reply-To: <20040325180237.HNFS1729.imf24aec.mail.bellsouth.net@SUSANONE> Message-ID: Oh, you mean the field property setting that then makes any controls based on that field have the lookup table/query fields preset to be a combo, list box, etc.? What the heck, I'll throw it out there, I haven't seen a debate on this one yet :o) I though it was a pretty hokey "feature" at first. IIRC correctly R:Base did this for you automatically if you placed a combo on a form that had a primary/foreign key relationship. In other words it actually used the entity relationships to do it for you. I don't generally use it but about the only thing I can think of hand is that it is not dynamic (in A97-I've never even looked into in A2k+). I did use this once in a situation (A97) where I had to allow for local user customization and I didn't trust any of the local users to have a clue beyond the card game. I figured they would get as far as opening datasheets and never figure out how to create forms so I set a lookup for every primary/foreign key relationship just because it would force the datasheets to display the values rather than the autonumberIDs. I had a few break on me there which is why I don't generally use them. What else in wrong with it? John "lighting fires" B. -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Susan Harkins Sent: Thursday, March 25, 2004 12:03 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: [AccessD] Framework Discussion - set up question No. :) I'm talking about the built-in lookup field feature that lets you display a related value from another table. Open a table in Design view and click the Lookup tab in the Properties pane. Developers soundly trash them, but I find them rather cool -- and if abused, is that Access's fault? ;) I'm mostly in favor of anything that makes Access more available to the average user -- it IS a desktop application after all. No, I don't use them, and I often have to "undo" them in Northwind when I'm using that db in an article example, but I can see why users would like and use them. Here we goooooooooooooooooooo! ;) Susan H. Susan, I've seen people joke about this before and I've just assumed I knew what they were referring to ("hard coded" delimited lists that are not stored in a table). Is this a correct assumption? -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From donald.a.Mcgillivray at mail.sprint.com Thu Mar 25 12:39:09 2004 From: donald.a.Mcgillivray at mail.sprint.com (Mcgillivray, Donald [ITS]) Date: Thu, 25 Mar 2004 12:39:09 -0600 Subject: [AccessD] Framework Discussion - set up question Message-ID: <6FC1C7A6E7BD5540AB0A8436713C43BF079DF50D@PKDWB01C.ad.sprint.com> Sounds like this is ground that has been tilled already, but I must have missed the discussion. At the risk of incurring the wrath of the "real" developers on the list, I'm keen to learn the specific objections to the use of this feature. I'm not saying that I use it . . . OK, I DO use it, but I'm not SAYING that. ;o) If there's a thread in the archives that I can browse, I'm happy to seek my answers there (a quick search on "lookup tab" and "table lookup" yielded goose-egg.) Otherwise, I (and perhaps others) would welcome a few "civil comments" on the topic. Don McG -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Susan Harkins Sent: Thursday, March 25, 2004 10:03 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: [AccessD] Framework Discussion - set up question No. :) I'm talking about the built-in lookup field feature that lets you display a related value from another table. Open a table in Design view and click the Lookup tab in the Properties pane. Developers soundly trash them, but I find them rather cool -- and if abused, is that Access's fault? ;) I'm mostly in favor of anything that makes Access more available to the average user -- it IS a desktop application after all. No, I don't use them, and I often have to "undo" them in Northwind when I'm using that db in an article example, but I can see why users would like and use them. Here we goooooooooooooooooooo! ;) Susan H. Susan, I've seen people joke about this before and I've just assumed I knew what they were referring to ("hard coded" delimited lists that are not stored in a table). Is this a correct assumption? -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From ssharkins at bellsouth.net Thu Mar 25 12:50:05 2004 From: ssharkins at bellsouth.net (Susan Harkins) Date: Thu, 25 Mar 2004 13:50:05 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Framework Discussion - set up question In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <20040325185000.YUWO1781.imf18aec.mail.bellsouth.net@SUSANONE> >> I'm mostly in favor of anything that makes Access more available to the average user -- it IS a desktop application after all. Are you TRYING to start a fight, Susan?!!? Most of us have been trying for years to convince Microsoft that this is NOT a desktop application, it's a tool to *build* desktop applications. Let the flames begin! ===========Me? I'm wounded... ;) Susan H. From ssharkins at bellsouth.net Thu Mar 25 12:53:43 2004 From: ssharkins at bellsouth.net (Susan Harkins) Date: Thu, 25 Mar 2004 13:53:43 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Framework Discussion - set up question In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <20040325185338.YWOP1781.imf18aec.mail.bellsouth.net@SUSANONE> What else in wrong with it? =============The main argument I was once given was that if you don't know they're there, you can make development errors. Well, if you don't know they're there, perhaps you shouldn't be developing in that particular database??????????? ;) The main advantage is to the user that wants to use lists but just doesn't have the expertise to do so. The table's lookup field is inherited by bound controls, which makes it an efficient solution for the user. Susan H. From my.lists at verizon.net Thu Mar 25 13:10:46 2004 From: my.lists at verizon.net (Francisco H Tapia) Date: Thu, 25 Mar 2004 11:10:46 -0800 Subject: [AccessD] Framework Discussion - set up question In-Reply-To: <20040325185338.YWOP1781.imf18aec.mail.bellsouth.net@SUSANONE> References: <20040325185338.YWOP1781.imf18aec.mail.bellsouth.net@SUSANONE> Message-ID: <40632EB6.2030006@verizon.net> Susan Harkins said the following on 3/25/2004 10:53 AM: >The main advantage is to the user that wants to use lists but just doesn't >have the expertise to do so. The table's lookup field is inherited by bound >controls, which makes it an efficient solution for the user. > > as with many things w/ Access.. just because you CAN do it doesn't mean you SHOULD. Of course Access is a Desktop application.. it has a lot of wizards and quick easy to use features that makes a lot of guys from marketing think they are developers :). This goes back to simple things that Access lets you do such as put spaces in your column and table names... Nice, yeah, practical, not really... -- -Francisco From cfoust at infostatsystems.com Thu Mar 25 13:33:19 2004 From: cfoust at infostatsystems.com (Charlotte Foust) Date: Thu, 25 Mar 2004 11:33:19 -0800 Subject: [AccessD] Framework Discussion - set up question Message-ID: "Civil comments"? Are you sure you're in the right list? Charlotte Foust -----Original Message----- From: Mcgillivray, Donald [ITS] [mailto:donald.a.Mcgillivray at mail.sprint.com] Sent: Thursday, March 25, 2004 10:39 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] Framework Discussion - set up question Sounds like this is ground that has been tilled already, but I must have missed the discussion. At the risk of incurring the wrath of the "real" developers on the list, I'm keen to learn the specific objections to the use of this feature. I'm not saying that I use it . . . OK, I DO use it, but I'm not SAYING that. ;o) If there's a thread in the archives that I can browse, I'm happy to seek my answers there (a quick search on "lookup tab" and "table lookup" yielded goose-egg.) Otherwise, I (and perhaps others) would welcome a few "civil comments" on the topic. Don McG -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Susan Harkins Sent: Thursday, March 25, 2004 10:03 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: [AccessD] Framework Discussion - set up question No. :) I'm talking about the built-in lookup field feature that lets you display a related value from another table. Open a table in Design view and click the Lookup tab in the Properties pane. Developers soundly trash them, but I find them rather cool -- and if abused, is that Access's fault? ;) I'm mostly in favor of anything that makes Access more available to the average user -- it IS a desktop application after all. No, I don't use them, and I often have to "undo" them in Northwind when I'm using that db in an article example, but I can see why users would like and use them. Here we goooooooooooooooooooo! ;) Susan H. Susan, I've seen people joke about this before and I've just assumed I knew what they were referring to ("hard coded" delimited lists that are not stored in a table). Is this a correct assumption? -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From cfoust at infostatsystems.com Thu Mar 25 13:38:55 2004 From: cfoust at infostatsystems.com (Charlotte Foust) Date: Thu, 25 Mar 2004 11:38:55 -0800 Subject: [AccessD] Framework Discussion - set up question Message-ID: For one thing, it can cause a lot of confusion among users who insist they have entered a particular string in a field and don't understand why they can't find it in a query. No, Virginia, the query isn't broken, but you're looking for the displayed value instead of the actual value, which is numeric! Why use something that shouldn't be needed and is just a lazy programmer's crutch in the first place. Users should NOT be looking at tables and developers should know better. They also add a level of querying that affects the performance and bloat of the database. Each one of the innocuous looking lookups is actually a SQL statement retrieving information from another table. Toss with a handful of "useful" automatic subdatasheets, and your performance goes out the window. Charlotte Foust -----Original Message----- From: John Bartow [mailto:john at winhaven.net] Sent: Thursday, March 25, 2004 10:39 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] Framework Discussion - set up question Oh, you mean the field property setting that then makes any controls based on that field have the lookup table/query fields preset to be a combo, list box, etc.? What the heck, I'll throw it out there, I haven't seen a debate on this one yet :o) I though it was a pretty hokey "feature" at first. IIRC correctly R:Base did this for you automatically if you placed a combo on a form that had a primary/foreign key relationship. In other words it actually used the entity relationships to do it for you. I don't generally use it but about the only thing I can think of hand is that it is not dynamic (in A97-I've never even looked into in A2k+). I did use this once in a situation (A97) where I had to allow for local user customization and I didn't trust any of the local users to have a clue beyond the card game. I figured they would get as far as opening datasheets and never figure out how to create forms so I set a lookup for every primary/foreign key relationship just because it would force the datasheets to display the values rather than the autonumberIDs. I had a few break on me there which is why I don't generally use them. What else in wrong with it? John "lighting fires" B. -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Susan Harkins Sent: Thursday, March 25, 2004 12:03 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: [AccessD] Framework Discussion - set up question No. :) I'm talking about the built-in lookup field feature that lets you display a related value from another table. Open a table in Design view and click the Lookup tab in the Properties pane. Developers soundly trash them, but I find them rather cool -- and if abused, is that Access's fault? ;) I'm mostly in favor of anything that makes Access more available to the average user -- it IS a desktop application after all. No, I don't use them, and I often have to "undo" them in Northwind when I'm using that db in an article example, but I can see why users would like and use them. Here we goooooooooooooooooooo! ;) Susan H. Susan, I've seen people joke about this before and I've just assumed I knew what they were referring to ("hard coded" delimited lists that are not stored in a table). Is this a correct assumption? -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From DWUTKA at marlow.com Thu Mar 25 13:44:53 2004 From: DWUTKA at marlow.com (DWUTKA at marlow.com) Date: Thu, 25 Mar 2004 13:44:53 -0600 Subject: [AccessD] Framework Discussion - set up question Message-ID: <2F8793082E00D4119A1700B0D0216BF8022279B5@main2.marlow.com> I have to agree with Susan on this. Yes, it is a tool to build desktop applications. However, so is Word, Excel, and even Outlook for that matter. VBA is a POWERFUL tool, and can quite frankly do anything it wants too, to a Windows OS. However, The Office Suite was ALSO meant to be a tool for the average user. No coding experience necessary to use any of the Office programs. This includes Access. Now, the fact that most users use Excel/Word, where they should be using Access, is simply due to the fact that most people hear the word 'database', and freak. Personally, I think that is do to overly complex systems built by 'professional developers'. The fact that the entire Office Suite is both easy to use, and powerful enough to create actual applications, should be a kudos to Microsoft, not a 'hot issue' to debate between developers. Now, what I feel needs to be 'fought' for, is the acceptance of Access throughout the db development world. I get tired of listening to SQL Server and Oracle developers who think of Access as a toy, instead of a database. Just my two cents. Drew -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Charlotte Foust Sent: Thursday, March 25, 2004 12:20 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] Framework Discussion - set up question >> I'm mostly in favor of anything that makes Access more available to the average user -- it IS a desktop application after all. Are you TRYING to start a fight, Susan?!!? Most of us have been trying for years to convince Microsoft that this is NOT a desktop application, it's a tool to *build* desktop applications. Let the flames begin! Charlotte Foust -----Original Message----- From: Susan Harkins [mailto:ssharkins at bellsouth.net] Sent: Thursday, March 25, 2004 10:03 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: [AccessD] Framework Discussion - set up question No. :) I'm talking about the built-in lookup field feature that lets you display a related value from another table. Open a table in Design view and click the Lookup tab in the Properties pane. Developers soundly trash them, but I find them rather cool -- and if abused, is that Access's fault? ;) I'm mostly in favor of anything that makes Access more available to the average user -- it IS a desktop application after all. No, I don't use them, and I often have to "undo" them in Northwind when I'm using that db in an article example, but I can see why users would like and use them. Here we goooooooooooooooooooo! ;) Susan H. Susan, I've seen people joke about this before and I've just assumed I knew what they were referring to ("hard coded" delimited lists that are not stored in a table). Is this a correct assumption? -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From DWUTKA at marlow.com Thu Mar 25 13:52:40 2004 From: DWUTKA at marlow.com (DWUTKA at marlow.com) Date: Thu, 25 Mar 2004 13:52:40 -0600 Subject: [AccessD] Framework Discussion - set up question Message-ID: <2F8793082E00D4119A1700B0D0216BF8022279B6@main2.marlow.com> I use it myself also. From code, it doesn't matter one lick, because ADO sees the values in those fields just as they are. However, it is extremely handy to have it setup that way, if you use Wizards to make your forms. (Or use the Field list to drag a bound control onto the form.). Even when I build unbound forms, I tend to use the form wizard to put the majority of the controls onto the form. I never knew there was a downside. What is it? Drew -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of John Bartow Sent: Thursday, March 25, 2004 12:39 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] Framework Discussion - set up question Oh, you mean the field property setting that then makes any controls based on that field have the lookup table/query fields preset to be a combo, list box, etc.? What the heck, I'll throw it out there, I haven't seen a debate on this one yet :o) I though it was a pretty hokey "feature" at first. IIRC correctly R:Base did this for you automatically if you placed a combo on a form that had a primary/foreign key relationship. In other words it actually used the entity relationships to do it for you. I don't generally use it but about the only thing I can think of hand is that it is not dynamic (in A97-I've never even looked into in A2k+). I did use this once in a situation (A97) where I had to allow for local user customization and I didn't trust any of the local users to have a clue beyond the card game. I figured they would get as far as opening datasheets and never figure out how to create forms so I set a lookup for every primary/foreign key relationship just because it would force the datasheets to display the values rather than the autonumberIDs. I had a few break on me there which is why I don't generally use them. What else in wrong with it? John "lighting fires" B. -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Susan Harkins Sent: Thursday, March 25, 2004 12:03 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: [AccessD] Framework Discussion - set up question No. :) I'm talking about the built-in lookup field feature that lets you display a related value from another table. Open a table in Design view and click the Lookup tab in the Properties pane. Developers soundly trash them, but I find them rather cool -- and if abused, is that Access's fault? ;) I'm mostly in favor of anything that makes Access more available to the average user -- it IS a desktop application after all. No, I don't use them, and I often have to "undo" them in Northwind when I'm using that db in an article example, but I can see why users would like and use them. Here we goooooooooooooooooooo! ;) Susan H. Susan, I've seen people joke about this before and I've just assumed I knew what they were referring to ("hard coded" delimited lists that are not stored in a table). Is this a correct assumption? -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From mwp.reid at qub.ac.uk Thu Mar 25 13:53:41 2004 From: mwp.reid at qub.ac.uk (Martin Reid) Date: Thu, 25 Mar 2004 19:53:41 -0000 Subject: [AccessD] Framework Discussion - set up question References: <2F8793082E00D4119A1700B0D0216BF8022279B5@main2.marlow.com> Message-ID: <000d01c412a2$e13d0110$1b02a8c0@MARTINREID> I agree with Drew Martin ----- Original Message ----- From: To: Sent: Thursday, March 25, 2004 7:44 PM Subject: RE: [AccessD] Framework Discussion - set up question > I have to agree with Susan on this. Yes, it is a tool to build desktop > applications. However, so is Word, Excel, and even Outlook for that matter. > VBA is a POWERFUL tool, and can quite frankly do anything it wants too, to a > Windows OS. However, The Office Suite was ALSO meant to be a tool for the > average user. No coding experience necessary to use any of the Office > programs. This includes Access. Now, the fact that most users use > Excel/Word, where they should be using Access, is simply due to the fact > that most people hear the word 'database', and freak. Personally, I think > that is do to overly complex systems built by 'professional developers'. > > The fact that the entire Office Suite is both easy to use, and powerful > enough to create actual applications, should be a kudos to Microsoft, not a > 'hot issue' to debate between developers. > > Now, what I feel needs to be 'fought' for, is the acceptance of Access > throughout the db development world. I get tired of listening to SQL Server > and Oracle developers who think of Access as a toy, instead of a database. > > Just my two cents. > > Drew > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Charlotte > Foust > Sent: Thursday, March 25, 2004 12:20 PM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: RE: [AccessD] Framework Discussion - set up question > > > >> I'm mostly in favor of anything that makes Access more available to > the average user -- it IS a desktop application after all. > > Are you TRYING to start a fight, Susan?!!? Most of us have been trying > for years to convince Microsoft that this is NOT a desktop application, > it's a tool to *build* desktop applications. Let the flames begin! > > Charlotte Foust > > -----Original Message----- > From: Susan Harkins [mailto:ssharkins at bellsouth.net] > Sent: Thursday, March 25, 2004 10:03 AM > To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' > Subject: RE: [AccessD] Framework Discussion - set up question > > > No. :) I'm talking about the built-in lookup field feature that lets you > display a related value from another table. Open a table in Design view > and click the Lookup tab in the Properties pane. > > Developers soundly trash them, but I find them rather cool -- and if > abused, is that Access's fault? ;) I'm mostly in favor of anything that > makes Access more available to the average user -- it IS a desktop > application after all. > > > No, I don't use them, and I often have to "undo" them in Northwind when > I'm using that db in an article example, but I can see why users would > like and use them. > > Here we goooooooooooooooooooo! ;) > > Susan H. > > Susan, > I've seen people joke about this before and I've just assumed I knew > what they were referring to ("hard coded" delimited lists that are not > stored in a table). > > Is this a correct assumption? > > > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > From DWUTKA at marlow.com Thu Mar 25 13:53:56 2004 From: DWUTKA at marlow.com (DWUTKA at marlow.com) Date: Thu, 25 Mar 2004 13:53:56 -0600 Subject: [AccessD] Framework Discussion - set up question Message-ID: <2F8793082E00D4119A1700B0D0216BF8022279B7@main2.marlow.com> What's impractical about Lookup stuff in a table design? Drew -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Francisco H Tapia Sent: Thursday, March 25, 2004 1:11 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Framework Discussion - set up question Susan Harkins said the following on 3/25/2004 10:53 AM: >The main advantage is to the user that wants to use lists but just doesn't >have the expertise to do so. The table's lookup field is inherited by bound >controls, which makes it an efficient solution for the user. > > as with many things w/ Access.. just because you CAN do it doesn't mean you SHOULD. Of course Access is a Desktop application.. it has a lot of wizards and quick easy to use features that makes a lot of guys from marketing think they are developers :). This goes back to simple things that Access lets you do such as put spaces in your column and table names... Nice, yeah, practical, not really... -- -Francisco -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From ssharkins at bellsouth.net Thu Mar 25 13:58:34 2004 From: ssharkins at bellsouth.net (Susan Harkins) Date: Thu, 25 Mar 2004 14:58:34 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] enable code builder Message-ID: <20040325195830.WVTW1763.imf21aec.mail.bellsouth.net@SUSANONE> I disabled the Code Builder dialog eons ago -- the intermediate dialog that opens after clicking the Builder button to the right of event fields. With it disabled, clicking the Builder button goes right to the module. How do I enable it? Thougth it should be a simple setting somewhere, but I can't find it. Susan H. From DWUTKA at marlow.com Thu Mar 25 13:58:36 2004 From: DWUTKA at marlow.com (DWUTKA at marlow.com) Date: Thu, 25 Mar 2004 13:58:36 -0600 Subject: [AccessD] Framework Discussion - set up question Message-ID: <2F8793082E00D4119A1700B0D0216BF8022279B8@main2.marlow.com> I don't get that 'main' argument. How could you NOT know that they are there? Granted, if I looked at a table, and saw that for Customer, it had a first name, instead of a CustomerID number, that I might be a little suspicious. However, entering that field, in the table, would show that it's a combo box, thus a lookup field, and I would know what is ACTUALLY stored within that field is a Long Integer foriegn key. (Or should be....LOL). Lookups are just part of Access' table design, and are relatively irrelevant when you use Access strictly as a BE. It's just like opening a table in datasheet view, and widening a column. It doesn't change the field size for that field, it just changes what you see when you are in datasheet view. Access remembers that too. (Still like to know WHERE it remembers it) But is that going to affect anything using that .mdb as a BE? No. I would really like to hear a solid reason for not using this. I'm definitely in the 'Use Lookup' camp otherwise. Drew -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Susan Harkins Sent: Thursday, March 25, 2004 12:54 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: [AccessD] Framework Discussion - set up question What else in wrong with it? =============The main argument I was once given was that if you don't know they're there, you can make development errors. Well, if you don't know they're there, perhaps you shouldn't be developing in that particular database??????????? ;) The main advantage is to the user that wants to use lists but just doesn't have the expertise to do so. The table's lookup field is inherited by bound controls, which makes it an efficient solution for the user. Susan H. -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From HollisVJ at pgdp.usec.com Thu Mar 25 14:00:45 2004 From: HollisVJ at pgdp.usec.com (Hollis,Virginia) Date: Thu, 25 Mar 2004 14:00:45 -0600 Subject: [AccessD] Framework Discussion - set up question Message-ID: <618EB4D6DDCDD3119B0A00508B6FD37A0CB0D425@cntexchange.pgdp.usec.com> >No, Virginia, the query isn't broken, but you're looking for the displayed value instead of the >actual value, which is numeric! I resemble that Santa clause phrase :-) Virginia -----Original Message----- From: Charlotte Foust [mailto:cfoust at infostatsystems.com] Sent: Thursday, March 25, 2004 1:39 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] Framework Discussion - set up question For one thing, it can cause a lot of confusion among users who insist they have entered a particular string in a field and don't understand why they can't find it in a query. No, Virginia, the query isn't broken, but you're looking for the displayed value instead of the actual value, which is numeric! Why use something that shouldn't be needed and is just a lazy programmer's crutch in the first place. Users should NOT be looking at tables and developers should know better. They also add a level of querying that affects the performance and bloat of the database. Each one of the innocuous looking lookups is actually a SQL statement retrieving information from another table. Toss with a handful of "useful" automatic subdatasheets, and your performance goes out the window. Charlotte Foust -----Original Message----- From: John Bartow [mailto:john at winhaven.net] Sent: Thursday, March 25, 2004 10:39 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] Framework Discussion - set up question Oh, you mean the field property setting that then makes any controls based on that field have the lookup table/query fields preset to be a combo, list box, etc.? What the heck, I'll throw it out there, I haven't seen a debate on this one yet :o) I though it was a pretty hokey "feature" at first. IIRC correctly R:Base did this for you automatically if you placed a combo on a form that had a primary/foreign key relationship. In other words it actually used the entity relationships to do it for you. I don't generally use it but about the only thing I can think of hand is that it is not dynamic (in A97-I've never even looked into in A2k+). I did use this once in a situation (A97) where I had to allow for local user customization and I didn't trust any of the local users to have a clue beyond the card game. I figured they would get as far as opening datasheets and never figure out how to create forms so I set a lookup for every primary/foreign key relationship just because it would force the datasheets to display the values rather than the autonumberIDs. I had a few break on me there which is why I don't generally use them. What else in wrong with it? John "lighting fires" B. -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Susan Harkins Sent: Thursday, March 25, 2004 12:03 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: [AccessD] Framework Discussion - set up question No. :) I'm talking about the built-in lookup field feature that lets you display a related value from another table. Open a table in Design view and click the Lookup tab in the Properties pane. Developers soundly trash them, but I find them rather cool -- and if abused, is that Access's fault? ;) I'm mostly in favor of anything that makes Access more available to the average user -- it IS a desktop application after all. No, I don't use them, and I often have to "undo" them in Northwind when I'm using that db in an article example, but I can see why users would like and use them. Here we goooooooooooooooooooo! ;) Susan H. Susan, I've seen people joke about this before and I've just assumed I knew what they were referring to ("hard coded" delimited lists that are not stored in a table). Is this a correct assumption? -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From ssharkins at bellsouth.net Thu Mar 25 14:02:03 2004 From: ssharkins at bellsouth.net (Susan Harkins) Date: Thu, 25 Mar 2004 15:02:03 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Framework Discussion - set up question In-Reply-To: <40632EB6.2030006@verizon.net> Message-ID: <20040325200201.WXVG1763.imf21aec.mail.bellsouth.net@SUSANONE> I just don't get the should/shouldn't argument. It's there, if it makes a user's life easier, he should use it. I'm not talking about professional paid for development, OK? I'm talking about users, plain old everyday users that want the ease and efficiency they're told they can get but don't have the development expertise to go after. Susan H. Susan Harkins said the following on 3/25/2004 10:53 AM: >The main advantage is to the user that wants to use lists but just >doesn't have the expertise to do so. The table's lookup field is >inherited by bound controls, which makes it an efficient solution for the user. > > as with many things w/ Access.. just because you CAN do it doesn't mean you SHOULD. Of course Access is a Desktop application.. it has a lot of wizards and quick easy to use features that makes a lot of guys from marketing think they are developers :). This goes back to simple things that Access lets you do such as put spaces in your column and table names... Nice, yeah, practical, not really... -- -Francisco -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From ssharkins at bellsouth.net Thu Mar 25 14:03:22 2004 From: ssharkins at bellsouth.net (Susan Harkins) Date: Thu, 25 Mar 2004 15:03:22 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Framework Discussion - set up question In-Reply-To: <2F8793082E00D4119A1700B0D0216BF8022279B5@main2.marlow.com> Message-ID: <20040325200317.WYPO1763.imf21aec.mail.bellsouth.net@SUSANONE> Couldn't have said it better myself. ;) To me there's no should or should nots when it comes to features -- there's just different people at different levels trying to get their work done. Susan H. I have to agree with Susan on this. Yes, it is a tool to build desktop applications. However, so is Word, Excel, and even Outlook for that matter. VBA is a POWERFUL tool, and can quite frankly do anything it wants too, to a Windows OS. However, The Office Suite was ALSO meant to be a tool for the average user. No coding experience necessary to use any of the Office programs. This includes Access. Now, the fact that most users use Excel/Word, where they should be using Access, is simply due to the fact that most people hear the word 'database', and freak. Personally, I think that is do to overly complex systems built by 'professional developers'. The fact that the entire Office Suite is both easy to use, and powerful enough to create actual applications, should be a kudos to Microsoft, not a 'hot issue' to debate between developers. Now, what I feel needs to be 'fought' for, is the acceptance of Access throughout the db development world. I get tired of listening to SQL Server and Oracle developers who think of Access as a toy, instead of a database. Just my two cents. Drew -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Charlotte Foust Sent: Thursday, March 25, 2004 12:20 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] Framework Discussion - set up question >> I'm mostly in favor of anything that makes Access more available to the average user -- it IS a desktop application after all. Are you TRYING to start a fight, Susan?!!? Most of us have been trying for years to convince Microsoft that this is NOT a desktop application, it's a tool to *build* desktop applications. Let the flames begin! Charlotte Foust -----Original Message----- From: Susan Harkins [mailto:ssharkins at bellsouth.net] Sent: Thursday, March 25, 2004 10:03 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: [AccessD] Framework Discussion - set up question No. :) I'm talking about the built-in lookup field feature that lets you display a related value from another table. Open a table in Design view and click the Lookup tab in the Properties pane. Developers soundly trash them, but I find them rather cool -- and if abused, is that Access's fault? ;) I'm mostly in favor of anything that makes Access more available to the average user -- it IS a desktop application after all. No, I don't use them, and I often have to "undo" them in Northwind when I'm using that db in an article example, but I can see why users would like and use them. Here we goooooooooooooooooooo! ;) Susan H. Susan, I've seen people joke about this before and I've just assumed I knew what they were referring to ("hard coded" delimited lists that are not stored in a table). Is this a correct assumption? -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From Patricia.O'Connor at DFA.STATE.NY.US Thu Mar 25 14:03:30 2004 From: Patricia.O'Connor at DFA.STATE.NY.US (O'Connor, Patricia ) Date: Thu, 25 Mar 2004 15:03:30 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Framework Discussion - set up question Message-ID: I agree with your last statement. I cannot use my years of access development as a basis for database and programming expertise. I do quite a bit with Oracle as my backend using Access as the front end. I also have applications with access tables and flat file uploads. But that does not count towards programming/database expertise/experience. Luckily, I have other "real" database experience that offsets it. I can understand part of the "look down the nose" attitude, because I have people in my office who say they are a database person and don't have the first clue as to design, usage, implementation, let alone normalization. They feel that way because they have 8-9 mini access databases that spit out data from queries. They don't have any knowledge of coding behind forms or modules. Because of those people, people like us on this list, don't get credit for applications developed with access. grrr Patti > -----Original Message----- > From: DWUTKA at marlow.com [mailto:DWUTKA at marlow.com] > Sent: Thursday, March 25, 2004 02:45 PM > To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com > Subject: RE: [AccessD] Framework Discussion - set up question > > > I have to agree with Susan on this. Yes, it is a tool to > build desktop > applications. However, so is Word, Excel, and even Outlook > for that matter. > VBA is a POWERFUL tool, and can quite frankly do anything it > wants too, to a > Windows OS. However, The Office Suite was ALSO meant to be a > tool for the > average user. No coding experience necessary to use any of the Office > programs. This includes Access. Now, the fact that most users use > Excel/Word, where they should be using Access, is simply due > to the fact > that most people hear the word 'database', and freak. > Personally, I think > that is do to overly complex systems built by 'professional > developers'. > > The fact that the entire Office Suite is both easy to use, > and powerful > enough to create actual applications, should be a kudos to > Microsoft, not a > 'hot issue' to debate between developers. > > Now, what I feel needs to be 'fought' for, is the acceptance of Access > throughout the db development world. I get tired of > listening to SQL Server > and Oracle developers who think of Access as a toy, instead > of a database. > > Just my two cents. > > Drew > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Charlotte > Foust > Sent: Thursday, March 25, 2004 12:20 PM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: RE: [AccessD] Framework Discussion - set up question > > > >> I'm mostly in favor of anything that makes Access more available to > the average user -- it IS a desktop application after all. > > Are you TRYING to start a fight, Susan?!!? Most of us have > been trying > for years to convince Microsoft that this is NOT a desktop > application, > it's a tool to *build* desktop applications. Let the flames begin! > > Charlotte Foust > > -----Original Message----- > From: Susan Harkins [mailto:ssharkins at bellsouth.net] > Sent: Thursday, March 25, 2004 10:03 AM > To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' > Subject: RE: [AccessD] Framework Discussion - set up question > > > No. :) I'm talking about the built-in lookup field feature > that lets you > display a related value from another table. Open a table in > Design view > and click the Lookup tab in the Properties pane. > > Developers soundly trash them, but I find them rather cool -- and if > abused, is that Access's fault? ;) I'm mostly in favor of > anything that > makes Access more available to the average user -- it IS a desktop > application after all. > > > No, I don't use them, and I often have to "undo" them in > Northwind when > I'm using that db in an article example, but I can see why users would > like and use them. > > Here we goooooooooooooooooooo! ;) > > Susan H. > > Susan, > I've seen people joke about this before and I've just assumed I knew > what they were referring to ("hard coded" delimited lists that are not > stored in a table). > > Is this a correct assumption? > > > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > From DWUTKA at marlow.com Thu Mar 25 14:05:07 2004 From: DWUTKA at marlow.com (DWUTKA at marlow.com) Date: Thu, 25 Mar 2004 14:05:07 -0600 Subject: [AccessD] Framework Discussion - set up question Message-ID: <2F8793082E00D4119A1700B0D0216BF8022279B9@main2.marlow.com> Those arguments conflict with each other. The 'lookups' should only affect a field in datasheet view. Therefore, if you say that it's a performance hit, you can't say that users shouldn't be looking at tables, because it wouldn't be a performance hit otherwise. How are they a lazy programmers crutch? If I have a table, that lists the fifty states, and I have several tables that require the state, putting the 'lookup' information into each table is going to save me a LOT of time down the road, as I build forms for those tables. Is it lazy to save development time? (I'd love to see someone argue that one...because telling a customer you charged them an extra hour, to setup comboboxes/listboxes for 50 forms, instead of doing it 2 or 3 times for 2 or three tables wouldn't get very far). Also, how does it bloat your database? I'm going to have to test that. I don't see how it could. If it really does bloat the db, then that's a valid argument, but it's also VERY poor design on MS's part. Drew -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Charlotte Foust Sent: Thursday, March 25, 2004 1:39 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] Framework Discussion - set up question For one thing, it can cause a lot of confusion among users who insist they have entered a particular string in a field and don't understand why they can't find it in a query. No, Virginia, the query isn't broken, but you're looking for the displayed value instead of the actual value, which is numeric! Why use something that shouldn't be needed and is just a lazy programmer's crutch in the first place. Users should NOT be looking at tables and developers should know better. They also add a level of querying that affects the performance and bloat of the database. Each one of the innocuous looking lookups is actually a SQL statement retrieving information from another table. Toss with a handful of "useful" automatic subdatasheets, and your performance goes out the window. Charlotte Foust -----Original Message----- From: John Bartow [mailto:john at winhaven.net] Sent: Thursday, March 25, 2004 10:39 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] Framework Discussion - set up question Oh, you mean the field property setting that then makes any controls based on that field have the lookup table/query fields preset to be a combo, list box, etc.? What the heck, I'll throw it out there, I haven't seen a debate on this one yet :o) I though it was a pretty hokey "feature" at first. IIRC correctly R:Base did this for you automatically if you placed a combo on a form that had a primary/foreign key relationship. In other words it actually used the entity relationships to do it for you. I don't generally use it but about the only thing I can think of hand is that it is not dynamic (in A97-I've never even looked into in A2k+). I did use this once in a situation (A97) where I had to allow for local user customization and I didn't trust any of the local users to have a clue beyond the card game. I figured they would get as far as opening datasheets and never figure out how to create forms so I set a lookup for every primary/foreign key relationship just because it would force the datasheets to display the values rather than the autonumberIDs. I had a few break on me there which is why I don't generally use them. What else in wrong with it? John "lighting fires" B. -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Susan Harkins Sent: Thursday, March 25, 2004 12:03 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: [AccessD] Framework Discussion - set up question No. :) I'm talking about the built-in lookup field feature that lets you display a related value from another table. Open a table in Design view and click the Lookup tab in the Properties pane. Developers soundly trash them, but I find them rather cool -- and if abused, is that Access's fault? ;) I'm mostly in favor of anything that makes Access more available to the average user -- it IS a desktop application after all. No, I don't use them, and I often have to "undo" them in Northwind when I'm using that db in an article example, but I can see why users would like and use them. Here we goooooooooooooooooooo! ;) Susan H. Susan, I've seen people joke about this before and I've just assumed I knew what they were referring to ("hard coded" delimited lists that are not stored in a table). Is this a correct assumption? -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From ssharkins at bellsouth.net Thu Mar 25 14:06:46 2004 From: ssharkins at bellsouth.net (Susan Harkins) Date: Thu, 25 Mar 2004 15:06:46 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Framework Discussion - set up question In-Reply-To: <2F8793082E00D4119A1700B0D0216BF8022279B7@main2.marlow.com> Message-ID: <20040325200640.XANL1763.imf21aec.mail.bellsouth.net@SUSANONE> I think the main problem developers have with it is really the problems users create when they start fiddling around with things they're not supposed to -- and that's a different basket altogether. If a user doesn't have access to the tables, they can't build a lookup field and mess stuff up. If the developer uses a lookup field, then the developer simply needs to compensate throughout the application, including those queries Charlotte was talking about. However, I think most developers would skip the lookup field and compensate. Susan H. What's impractical about Lookup stuff in a table design? From Bryan_Carbonnell at cbc.ca Thu Mar 25 14:10:11 2004 From: Bryan_Carbonnell at cbc.ca (Bryan Carbonnell) Date: Thu, 25 Mar 2004 15:10:11 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] enable code builder Message-ID: Tools|Options.... Forms/Reports Tab Down at the bottom UNcheck "Always Use Event Procedures" Bryan Carbonnell bryan_carbonnell at cbc.ca >>> ssharkins at bellsouth.net 25-Mar-04 2:58:34 PM >>> I disabled the Code Builder dialog eons ago -- the intermediate dialog that opens after clicking the Builder button to the right of event fields. With it disabled, clicking the Builder button goes right to the module. How do I enable it? Thougth it should be a simple setting somewhere, but I can't find it. Susan H. -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From DWUTKA at marlow.com Thu Mar 25 14:10:53 2004 From: DWUTKA at marlow.com (DWUTKA at marlow.com) Date: Thu, 25 Mar 2004 14:10:53 -0600 Subject: [AccessD] Framework Discussion - set up question Message-ID: <2F8793082E00D4119A1700B0D0216BF8022279BA@main2.marlow.com> I don't know. Last sentence, first paragraph should have had due, instead of do. I think you would have caught that, so you could have said it better. LOL Drew -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Susan Harkins Sent: Thursday, March 25, 2004 2:03 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: [AccessD] Framework Discussion - set up question Couldn't have said it better myself. ;) To me there's no should or should nots when it comes to features -- there's just different people at different levels trying to get their work done. Susan H. I have to agree with Susan on this. Yes, it is a tool to build desktop applications. However, so is Word, Excel, and even Outlook for that matter. VBA is a POWERFUL tool, and can quite frankly do anything it wants too, to a Windows OS. However, The Office Suite was ALSO meant to be a tool for the average user. No coding experience necessary to use any of the Office programs. This includes Access. Now, the fact that most users use Excel/Word, where they should be using Access, is simply due to the fact that most people hear the word 'database', and freak. Personally, I think that is do to overly complex systems built by 'professional developers'. The fact that the entire Office Suite is both easy to use, and powerful enough to create actual applications, should be a kudos to Microsoft, not a 'hot issue' to debate between developers. Now, what I feel needs to be 'fought' for, is the acceptance of Access throughout the db development world. I get tired of listening to SQL Server and Oracle developers who think of Access as a toy, instead of a database. Just my two cents. Drew -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Charlotte Foust Sent: Thursday, March 25, 2004 12:20 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] Framework Discussion - set up question >> I'm mostly in favor of anything that makes Access more available to the average user -- it IS a desktop application after all. Are you TRYING to start a fight, Susan?!!? Most of us have been trying for years to convince Microsoft that this is NOT a desktop application, it's a tool to *build* desktop applications. Let the flames begin! Charlotte Foust -----Original Message----- From: Susan Harkins [mailto:ssharkins at bellsouth.net] Sent: Thursday, March 25, 2004 10:03 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: [AccessD] Framework Discussion - set up question No. :) I'm talking about the built-in lookup field feature that lets you display a related value from another table. Open a table in Design view and click the Lookup tab in the Properties pane. Developers soundly trash them, but I find them rather cool -- and if abused, is that Access's fault? ;) I'm mostly in favor of anything that makes Access more available to the average user -- it IS a desktop application after all. No, I don't use them, and I often have to "undo" them in Northwind when I'm using that db in an article example, but I can see why users would like and use them. Here we goooooooooooooooooooo! ;) Susan H. Susan, I've seen people joke about this before and I've just assumed I knew what they were referring to ("hard coded" delimited lists that are not stored in a table). Is this a correct assumption? -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From HollisVJ at pgdp.usec.com Thu Mar 25 14:16:05 2004 From: HollisVJ at pgdp.usec.com (Hollis,Virginia) Date: Thu, 25 Mar 2004 14:16:05 -0600 Subject: [AccessD] enable code builder Message-ID: <618EB4D6DDCDD3119B0A00508B6FD37A0CB0D426@cntexchange.pgdp.usec.com> Tools, Options, Forms/Reports tab, uncheck Always Use Event Procedures. -----Original Message----- From: Susan Harkins [mailto:ssharkins at bellsouth.net] Sent: Thursday, March 25, 2004 1:59 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: [AccessD] enable code builder I disabled the Code Builder dialog eons ago -- the intermediate dialog that opens after clicking the Builder button to the right of event fields. With it disabled, clicking the Builder button goes right to the module. How do I enable it? Thougth it should be a simple setting somewhere, but I can't find it. Susan H. -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From ssharkins at bellsouth.net Thu Mar 25 14:27:58 2004 From: ssharkins at bellsouth.net (Susan Harkins) Date: Thu, 25 Mar 2004 15:27:58 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] enable code builder In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <20040325202753.VMB1781.imf18aec.mail.bellsouth.net@SUSANONE> Thanks to both of you -- that was it. I even looked there, but I just didn't get the connection -- I was looking for a Code Builder option of some sort. Susan H. Tools|Options.... Forms/Reports Tab Down at the bottom UNcheck "Always Use Event Procedures" Bryan Carbonnell bryan_carbonnell at cbc.ca From DWUTKA at marlow.com Thu Mar 25 14:27:57 2004 From: DWUTKA at marlow.com (DWUTKA at marlow.com) Date: Thu, 25 Mar 2004 14:27:57 -0600 Subject: [AccessD] Framework Discussion - set up question Message-ID: <2F8793082E00D4119A1700B0D0216BF8022279BB@main2.marlow.com> Now there is a pet peeve of mine. Access User level security is more then adequate to prevent users for 'goofing around' with your database. My pet peeve is developers who don't understand Access User Level security. LOL Drew -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Susan Harkins Sent: Thursday, March 25, 2004 2:07 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: [AccessD] Framework Discussion - set up question I think the main problem developers have with it is really the problems users create when they start fiddling around with things they're not supposed to -- and that's a different basket altogether. If a user doesn't have access to the tables, they can't build a lookup field and mess stuff up. If the developer uses a lookup field, then the developer simply needs to compensate throughout the application, including those queries Charlotte was talking about. However, I think most developers would skip the lookup field and compensate. Susan H. What's impractical about Lookup stuff in a table design? -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From DWUTKA at marlow.com Thu Mar 25 14:32:01 2004 From: DWUTKA at marlow.com (DWUTKA at marlow.com) Date: Thu, 25 Mar 2004 14:32:01 -0600 Subject: [AccessD] Framework Discussion - set up question Message-ID: <2F8793082E00D4119A1700B0D0216BF8022279BC@main2.marlow.com> Yep, it all boils down to using the right tool. Access is definitely more limited then server side db's, in many ways, however, that doesn't mean it isn't adequate for the infinite uses that fit within those limits. The simple fact that an access database is a single .mdb file, all by itself is an advantage over server side databases. I am not mocking server side db's, far from it, but I believe you should use the right tool for the right job. I may stretch the limits of Access a bit, but I would never say 'no' to switching to a server db if asked. A lot of times it boils down to money, and that alone can be an another advantage of Access. Drew -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of O'Connor, Patricia Sent: Thursday, March 25, 2004 2:04 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: [AccessD] Framework Discussion - set up question I agree with your last statement. I cannot use my years of access development as a basis for database and programming expertise. I do quite a bit with Oracle as my backend using Access as the front end. I also have applications with access tables and flat file uploads. But that does not count towards programming/database expertise/experience. Luckily, I have other "real" database experience that offsets it. I can understand part of the "look down the nose" attitude, because I have people in my office who say they are a database person and don't have the first clue as to design, usage, implementation, let alone normalization. They feel that way because they have 8-9 mini access databases that spit out data from queries. They don't have any knowledge of coding behind forms or modules. Because of those people, people like us on this list, don't get credit for applications developed with access. grrr Patti > -----Original Message----- > From: DWUTKA at marlow.com [mailto:DWUTKA at marlow.com] > Sent: Thursday, March 25, 2004 02:45 PM > To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com > Subject: RE: [AccessD] Framework Discussion - set up question > > > I have to agree with Susan on this. Yes, it is a tool to > build desktop > applications. However, so is Word, Excel, and even Outlook > for that matter. > VBA is a POWERFUL tool, and can quite frankly do anything it > wants too, to a > Windows OS. However, The Office Suite was ALSO meant to be a > tool for the > average user. No coding experience necessary to use any of the Office > programs. This includes Access. Now, the fact that most users use > Excel/Word, where they should be using Access, is simply due > to the fact > that most people hear the word 'database', and freak. > Personally, I think > that is do to overly complex systems built by 'professional > developers'. > > The fact that the entire Office Suite is both easy to use, > and powerful > enough to create actual applications, should be a kudos to > Microsoft, not a > 'hot issue' to debate between developers. > > Now, what I feel needs to be 'fought' for, is the acceptance of Access > throughout the db development world. I get tired of > listening to SQL Server > and Oracle developers who think of Access as a toy, instead > of a database. > > Just my two cents. > > Drew > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Charlotte > Foust > Sent: Thursday, March 25, 2004 12:20 PM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: RE: [AccessD] Framework Discussion - set up question > > > >> I'm mostly in favor of anything that makes Access more available to > the average user -- it IS a desktop application after all. > > Are you TRYING to start a fight, Susan?!!? Most of us have > been trying > for years to convince Microsoft that this is NOT a desktop > application, > it's a tool to *build* desktop applications. Let the flames begin! > > Charlotte Foust > > -----Original Message----- > From: Susan Harkins [mailto:ssharkins at bellsouth.net] > Sent: Thursday, March 25, 2004 10:03 AM > To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' > Subject: RE: [AccessD] Framework Discussion - set up question > > > No. :) I'm talking about the built-in lookup field feature > that lets you > display a related value from another table. Open a table in > Design view > and click the Lookup tab in the Properties pane. > > Developers soundly trash them, but I find them rather cool -- and if > abused, is that Access's fault? ;) I'm mostly in favor of > anything that > makes Access more available to the average user -- it IS a desktop > application after all. > > > No, I don't use them, and I often have to "undo" them in > Northwind when > I'm using that db in an article example, but I can see why users would > like and use them. > > Here we goooooooooooooooooooo! ;) > > Susan H. > > Susan, > I've seen people joke about this before and I've just assumed I knew > what they were referring to ("hard coded" delimited lists that are not > stored in a table). > > Is this a correct assumption? > > > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com Thu Mar 25 14:41:15 2004 From: jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com (John W. Colby) Date: Thu, 25 Mar 2004 15:41:15 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Framework Discussion - set up question In-Reply-To: Message-ID: ROTFL. -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Charlotte Foust Sent: Thursday, March 25, 2004 2:33 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] Framework Discussion - set up question "Civil comments"? Are you sure you're in the right list? Charlotte Foust -----Original Message----- From: Mcgillivray, Donald [ITS] [mailto:donald.a.Mcgillivray at mail.sprint.com] Sent: Thursday, March 25, 2004 10:39 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] Framework Discussion - set up question Sounds like this is ground that has been tilled already, but I must have missed the discussion. At the risk of incurring the wrath of the "real" developers on the list, I'm keen to learn the specific objections to the use of this feature. I'm not saying that I use it . . . OK, I DO use it, but I'm not SAYING that. ;o) If there's a thread in the archives that I can browse, I'm happy to seek my answers there (a quick search on "lookup tab" and "table lookup" yielded goose-egg.) Otherwise, I (and perhaps others) would welcome a few "civil comments" on the topic. Don McG -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Susan Harkins Sent: Thursday, March 25, 2004 10:03 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: [AccessD] Framework Discussion - set up question No. :) I'm talking about the built-in lookup field feature that lets you display a related value from another table. Open a table in Design view and click the Lookup tab in the Properties pane. Developers soundly trash them, but I find them rather cool -- and if abused, is that Access's fault? ;) I'm mostly in favor of anything that makes Access more available to the average user -- it IS a desktop application after all. No, I don't use them, and I often have to "undo" them in Northwind when I'm using that db in an article example, but I can see why users would like and use them. Here we goooooooooooooooooooo! ;) Susan H. Susan, I've seen people joke about this before and I've just assumed I knew what they were referring to ("hard coded" delimited lists that are not stored in a table). Is this a correct assumption? -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From DWUTKA at marlow.com Thu Mar 25 15:10:07 2004 From: DWUTKA at marlow.com (DWUTKA at marlow.com) Date: Thu, 25 Mar 2004 15:10:07 -0600 Subject: [AccessD] Lookup Fields in Table Design Message-ID: <2F8793082E00D4119A1700B0D0216BF8022279BD@main2.marlow.com> Okay, the three reasons given so far for not using the Lookup feature in your table designs are: #1: Lazy developer tool, which can confuse users. #2: Performance Decrease. #3: Bloat Okay, for number one, I personally don't see a point in arguing against that, because it's too darn easy to confuse users. If we didn't use something that could confuse a user, we would have to kick our computers out the door! LOL (sorry, couldn't resist). Now for Number 2. Did a simple test. I created a database with a simple lookup table (with a list of states) and then added a table that had a 'State' field. Copied that database, and then added a lookup for the State field, using the tblStates table. Then I created a little code which added 200,000 records to tblCustomerInfo (my 'dummy' table). BOTH databases took about the same amount of time to enter records. (used an INSERT INTO statement.....that took a while, probably would have been faster to use the Add method of a recordset. Either way, both processes took about the same amount of time.). With 200,000 records in the table, in both databases, opening the table in datasheet view takes the same amount of time in either database. Thus, no performance decrease at all. Number 3. Well, I checked the size of both databases along the whole process. (I did put the lookup table in both databases, so they should have been the same 'size'). Guess what, they were. Started at 92,160 bytes (each) with no data other then the US States, and after 200,000 records, both databases were 5,869,568 bytes. I even manually added records (about a dozen), and both databases were still the same size (in bytes), though I didn't write those numbers down. However, and this is a BIG however. I found a distinct advantage to using a Lookup field. In the database with the Lookup field, I had set the Limit to List property to Yes. I then tweaked my code, and added "XX", instead of a random state, for 10 records. BOTH databases added 10 records with XX in it. Going to the Non-lookup database, I could still manually enter a record with XX as the State. Going to the Lookup database, I could NOT manually enter XX, because it wouldn't let me enter a state not on the list. Setting the field validation for <>"XX" in both tables, prevented the code from adding new records with that value. So that is a very interesting advantage. It allows you to enforce 'user' data entry 'rules', while allowing code inserted/modified data to bypass. That could be handy. One last note. The 'lookup' capability does NOT have to be a SQL statement. Combo boxes and listboxes can both use Callback functions. This DOES apply to Lookup fields. (did a test. Used a previously built Callback function that lists the reports in a db for list/combo box, and added it to a field's lookup property. sure enough, it listed the reports when entering that field.) Drew From john at winhaven.net Thu Mar 25 15:12:38 2004 From: john at winhaven.net (John Bartow) Date: Thu, 25 Mar 2004 15:12:38 -0600 Subject: [AccessD] Framework Discussion - set up question In-Reply-To: <40632EB6.2030006@verizon.net> Message-ID: On the other hand, just because "power users" can do it doesn't mean "developers" shouldn't do it. (Chalk null up for either side) as with many things w/ Access.. just because you CAN do it doesn't mean you SHOULD. Of course Access is a Desktop application.. it has a lot of wizards and quick easy to use features that makes a lot of guys from marketing think they are developers :). This goes back to simple things that Access lets you do such as put spaces in your column and table names... Nice, yeah, practical, not really... -- -Francisco From john at winhaven.net Thu Mar 25 15:12:39 2004 From: john at winhaven.net (John Bartow) Date: Thu, 25 Mar 2004 15:12:39 -0600 Subject: [AccessD] Framework Discussion - set up question In-Reply-To: Message-ID: In Line: For one thing, it can cause a lot of confusion among users who insist they have entered a particular string in a field and don't understand why they can't find it in a query. No, Virginia, the query isn't broken, but you're looking for the displayed value instead of the actual value, which is numeric! Good Point. But then again, many "normal" people have no idea what a "query" is. -But chalk one up for the nay-sayers. Why use something that shouldn't be needed and is just a lazy programmer's crutch in the first place. Users should NOT be looking at tables and developers should know better. Unless its part of the specification that they can. -Uneccessrily flamatory one penalty point for the nay-sayers ;o) They also add a level of querying that affects the performance and bloat of the database. Each one of the innocuous looking lookups is actually a SQL statement retrieving information from another table. Toss with a handful of "useful" automatic subdatasheets, and your performance goes out the window. -But chalk another one up for the nay-sayers. score 2: nay-sayers 0: sayers Charlotte Foust From john at winhaven.net Thu Mar 25 15:12:39 2004 From: john at winhaven.net (John Bartow) Date: Thu, 25 Mar 2004 15:12:39 -0600 Subject: [AccessD] Framework Discussion - set up question In-Reply-To: <20040325185338.YWOP1781.imf18aec.mail.bellsouth.net@SUSANONE> Message-ID: Yeah, just like me, light a fire and run! I'm baaack! ;o) -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Susan Harkins Sent: Thursday, March 25, 2004 12:54 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: [AccessD] Framework Discussion - set up question What else in wrong with it? =============The main argument I was once given was that if you don't know they're there, you can make development errors. Well, if you don't know they're there, perhaps you shouldn't be developing in that particular database??????????? ;) The main advantage is to the user that wants to use lists but just doesn't have the expertise to do so. The table's lookup field is inherited by bound controls, which makes it an efficient solution for the user. Susan H. From john at winhaven.net Thu Mar 25 15:12:40 2004 From: john at winhaven.net (John Bartow) Date: Thu, 25 Mar 2004 15:12:40 -0600 Subject: [AccessD] Framework Discussion - set up question In-Reply-To: <2F8793082E00D4119A1700B0D0216BF8022279B5@main2.marlow.com> Message-ID: VERY passionate, non-argumentative style, point. One point sayers! Score 2: nay-sayers / 1 sayers -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of DWUTKA at marlow.com Sent: Thursday, March 25, 2004 1:45 PM To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: RE: [AccessD] Framework Discussion - set up question I have to agree with Susan on this. Yes, it is a tool to build desktop applications. However, so is Word, Excel, and even Outlook for that matter. VBA is a POWERFUL tool, and can quite frankly do anything it wants too, to a Windows OS. However, The Office Suite was ALSO meant to be a tool for the average user. No coding experience necessary to use any of the Office programs. This includes Access. Now, the fact that most users use Excel/Word, where they should be using Access, is simply due to the fact that most people hear the word 'database', and freak. Personally, I think that is do to overly complex systems built by 'professional developers'. The fact that the entire Office Suite is both easy to use, and powerful enough to create actual applications, should be a kudos to Microsoft, not a 'hot issue' to debate between developers. Now, what I feel needs to be 'fought' for, is the acceptance of Access throughout the db development world. I get tired of listening to SQL Server and Oracle developers who think of Access as a toy, instead of a database. Just my two cents. Drew From john at winhaven.net Thu Mar 25 15:12:41 2004 From: john at winhaven.net (John Bartow) Date: Thu, 25 Mar 2004 15:12:41 -0600 Subject: [AccessD] Framework Discussion - set up question In-Reply-To: <000d01c412a2$e13d0110$1b02a8c0@MARTINREID> Message-ID: A ditto counts for .5 point Score: 2 nay-sayers 1.5 sayers -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Martin Reid Sent: Thursday, March 25, 2004 1:54 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Framework Discussion - set up question I agree with Drew Martin From my.lists at verizon.net Thu Mar 25 15:18:37 2004 From: my.lists at verizon.net (Francisco H Tapia) Date: Thu, 25 Mar 2004 13:18:37 -0800 Subject: [AccessD] Framework Discussion - set up question In-Reply-To: <2F8793082E00D4119A1700B0D0216BF8022279B7@main2.marlow.com> References: <2F8793082E00D4119A1700B0D0216BF8022279B7@main2.marlow.com> Message-ID: <40634CAD.9070000@verizon.net> DWUTKA at marlow.com said the following on 3/25/2004 11:53 AM: >What's impractical about Lookup stuff in a table design? > > 1) When you query the table you're querying against some text... instead of ID's... while there is no one right way.. you're adding confusion. 2) when you want to add additonal columns so that the sub table can have it's own set of attributes because the system has "grown" you'll need to revisit the table to make the changes for the FE, but if you're using some sort of BE/FE setup then you can't do anything until all the users are out :) -- -Francisco From john at winhaven.net Thu Mar 25 15:19:57 2004 From: john at winhaven.net (John Bartow) Date: Thu, 25 Mar 2004 15:19:57 -0600 Subject: [AccessD] Framework Discussion - set up question In-Reply-To: <2F8793082E00D4119A1700B0D0216BF8022279B8@main2.marlow.com> Message-ID: Woa! Another passionate comment! One point sayers! Actually I won't count my dittos here: If its going to be a potential problem when you pick up the job, just run code to eliminate them all. Score: 2 nay-sayers 2.5 sayers -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of DWUTKA at marlow.com Sent: Thursday, March 25, 2004 1:59 PM To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: RE: [AccessD] Framework Discussion - set up question I don't get that 'main' argument. How could you NOT know that they are there? Granted, if I looked at a table, and saw that for Customer, it had a first name, instead of a CustomerID number, that I might be a little suspicious. However, entering that field, in the table, would show that it's a combo box, thus a lookup field, and I would know what is ACTUALLY stored within that field is a Long Integer foriegn key. (Or should be....LOL). Lookups are just part of Access' table design, and are relatively irrelevant when you use Access strictly as a BE. It's just like opening a table in datasheet view, and widening a column. It doesn't change the field size for that field, it just changes what you see when you are in datasheet view. Access remembers that too. (Still like to know WHERE it remembers it) But is that going to affect anything using that .mdb as a BE? No. I would really like to hear a solid reason for not using this. I'm definitely in the 'Use Lookup' camp otherwise. Drew From john at winhaven.net Thu Mar 25 15:19:58 2004 From: john at winhaven.net (John Bartow) Date: Thu, 25 Mar 2004 15:19:58 -0600 Subject: [AccessD] Framework Discussion - set up question In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Kind of like the respect issue between drivers for NASCAR versus Formula 1. -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of O'Connor, Patricia Sent: Thursday, March 25, 2004 2:03 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: [AccessD] Framework Discussion - set up question I agree with your last statement. I cannot use my years of access development as a basis for database and programming expertise. I do quite a bit with Oracle as my backend using Access as the front end. I also have applications with access tables and flat file uploads. But that does not count towards programming/database expertise/experience. Luckily, I have other "real" database experience that offsets it. I can understand part of the "look down the nose" attitude, because I have people in my office who say they are a database person and don't have the first clue as to design, usage, implementation, let alone normalization. They feel that way because they have 8-9 mini access databases that spit out data from queries. They don't have any knowledge of coding behind forms or modules. Because of those people, people like us on this list, don't get credit for applications developed with access. grrr Patti From john at winhaven.net Thu Mar 25 15:19:59 2004 From: john at winhaven.net (John Bartow) Date: Thu, 25 Mar 2004 15:19:59 -0600 Subject: [AccessD] Lookup Fields in Table Design In-Reply-To: <2F8793082E00D4119A1700B0D0216BF8022279BD@main2.marlow.com> Message-ID: Slam and dunk! 5 point sayers! Score: 2 nay-sayers / 7.5 sayers -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of DWUTKA at marlow.com Sent: Thursday, March 25, 2004 3:10 PM To: AccessD at databaseadvisors.com Subject: [AccessD] Lookup Fields in Table Design Okay, the three reasons given so far for not using the Lookup feature in your table designs are: #1: Lazy developer tool, which can confuse users. #2: Performance Decrease. #3: Bloat Okay, for number one, I personally don't see a point in arguing against that, because it's too darn easy to confuse users. If we didn't use something that could confuse a user, we would have to kick our computers out the door! LOL (sorry, couldn't resist). Now for Number 2. Did a simple test. I created a database with a simple lookup table (with a list of states) and then added a table that had a 'State' field. Copied that database, and then added a lookup for the State field, using the tblStates table. Then I created a little code which added 200,000 records to tblCustomerInfo (my 'dummy' table). BOTH databases took about the same amount of time to enter records. (used an INSERT INTO statement.....that took a while, probably would have been faster to use the Add method of a recordset. Either way, both processes took about the same amount of time.). With 200,000 records in the table, in both databases, opening the table in datasheet view takes the same amount of time in either database. Thus, no performance decrease at all. Number 3. Well, I checked the size of both databases along the whole process. (I did put the lookup table in both databases, so they should have been the same 'size'). Guess what, they were. Started at 92,160 bytes (each) with no data other then the US States, and after 200,000 records, both databases were 5,869,568 bytes. I even manually added records (about a dozen), and both databases were still the same size (in bytes), though I didn't write those numbers down. However, and this is a BIG however. I found a distinct advantage to using a Lookup field. In the database with the Lookup field, I had set the Limit to List property to Yes. I then tweaked my code, and added "XX", instead of a random state, for 10 records. BOTH databases added 10 records with XX in it. Going to the Non-lookup database, I could still manually enter a record with XX as the State. Going to the Lookup database, I could NOT manually enter XX, because it wouldn't let me enter a state not on the list. Setting the field validation for <>"XX" in both tables, prevented the code from adding new records with that value. So that is a very interesting advantage. It allows you to enforce 'user' data entry 'rules', while allowing code inserted/modified data to bypass. That could be handy. One last note. The 'lookup' capability does NOT have to be a SQL statement. Combo boxes and listboxes can both use Callback functions. This DOES apply to Lookup fields. (did a test. Used a previously built Callback function that lists the reports in a db for list/combo box, and added it to a field's lookup property. sure enough, it listed the reports when entering that field.) Drew -- From cfoust at infostatsystems.com Thu Mar 25 15:29:15 2004 From: cfoust at infostatsystems.com (Charlotte Foust) Date: Thu, 25 Mar 2004 13:29:15 -0800 Subject: [AccessD] Lookup Fields in Table Design Message-ID: And did you try it using *forms*, Drew. That's what users tend to deal with, isn't it? And that's where my experience says they're a bad idea (well, users are often a bad idea, but I'm talking about lookups.) As far as your "advantage", I don't let my users come within a mile of my tables, so where is the advantage? They *can't* manually enter records, period. Charlotte Foust -----Original Message----- From: DWUTKA at marlow.com [mailto:DWUTKA at marlow.com] Sent: Thursday, March 25, 2004 1:10 PM To: AccessD at databaseadvisors.com Subject: [AccessD] Lookup Fields in Table Design Okay, the three reasons given so far for not using the Lookup feature in your table designs are: #1: Lazy developer tool, which can confuse users. #2: Performance Decrease. #3: Bloat Okay, for number one, I personally don't see a point in arguing against that, because it's too darn easy to confuse users. If we didn't use something that could confuse a user, we would have to kick our computers out the door! LOL (sorry, couldn't resist). Now for Number 2. Did a simple test. I created a database with a simple lookup table (with a list of states) and then added a table that had a 'State' field. Copied that database, and then added a lookup for the State field, using the tblStates table. Then I created a little code which added 200,000 records to tblCustomerInfo (my 'dummy' table). BOTH databases took about the same amount of time to enter records. (used an INSERT INTO statement.....that took a while, probably would have been faster to use the Add method of a recordset. Either way, both processes took about the same amount of time.). With 200,000 records in the table, in both databases, opening the table in datasheet view takes the same amount of time in either database. Thus, no performance decrease at all. Number 3. Well, I checked the size of both databases along the whole process. (I did put the lookup table in both databases, so they should have been the same 'size'). Guess what, they were. Started at 92,160 bytes (each) with no data other then the US States, and after 200,000 records, both databases were 5,869,568 bytes. I even manually added records (about a dozen), and both databases were still the same size (in bytes), though I didn't write those numbers down. However, and this is a BIG however. I found a distinct advantage to using a Lookup field. In the database with the Lookup field, I had set the Limit to List property to Yes. I then tweaked my code, and added "XX", instead of a random state, for 10 records. BOTH databases added 10 records with XX in it. Going to the Non-lookup database, I could still manually enter a record with XX as the State. Going to the Lookup database, I could NOT manually enter XX, because it wouldn't let me enter a state not on the list. Setting the field validation for <>"XX" in both tables, prevented the code from adding new records with that value. So that is a very interesting advantage. It allows you to enforce 'user' data entry 'rules', while allowing code inserted/modified data to bypass. That could be handy. One last note. The 'lookup' capability does NOT have to be a SQL statement. Combo boxes and listboxes can both use Callback functions. This DOES apply to Lookup fields. (did a test. Used a previously built Callback function that lists the reports in a db for list/combo box, and added it to a field's lookup property. sure enough, it listed the reports when entering that field.) Drew -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From cfoust at infostatsystems.com Thu Mar 25 15:31:59 2004 From: cfoust at infostatsystems.com (Charlotte Foust) Date: Thu, 25 Mar 2004 13:31:59 -0800 Subject: [AccessD] Lookup Fields in Table Design Message-ID: I think you added too soon. The discussion is far from over just because Drew weighed in on one side. Charlotte Foust -----Original Message----- From: John Bartow [mailto:john at winhaven.net] Sent: Thursday, March 25, 2004 1:20 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] Lookup Fields in Table Design Slam and dunk! 5 point sayers! Score: 2 nay-sayers / 7.5 sayers -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of DWUTKA at marlow.com Sent: Thursday, March 25, 2004 3:10 PM To: AccessD at databaseadvisors.com Subject: [AccessD] Lookup Fields in Table Design Okay, the three reasons given so far for not using the Lookup feature in your table designs are: #1: Lazy developer tool, which can confuse users. #2: Performance Decrease. #3: Bloat Okay, for number one, I personally don't see a point in arguing against that, because it's too darn easy to confuse users. If we didn't use something that could confuse a user, we would have to kick our computers out the door! LOL (sorry, couldn't resist). Now for Number 2. Did a simple test. I created a database with a simple lookup table (with a list of states) and then added a table that had a 'State' field. Copied that database, and then added a lookup for the State field, using the tblStates table. Then I created a little code which added 200,000 records to tblCustomerInfo (my 'dummy' table). BOTH databases took about the same amount of time to enter records. (used an INSERT INTO statement.....that took a while, probably would have been faster to use the Add method of a recordset. Either way, both processes took about the same amount of time.). With 200,000 records in the table, in both databases, opening the table in datasheet view takes the same amount of time in either database. Thus, no performance decrease at all. Number 3. Well, I checked the size of both databases along the whole process. (I did put the lookup table in both databases, so they should have been the same 'size'). Guess what, they were. Started at 92,160 bytes (each) with no data other then the US States, and after 200,000 records, both databases were 5,869,568 bytes. I even manually added records (about a dozen), and both databases were still the same size (in bytes), though I didn't write those numbers down. However, and this is a BIG however. I found a distinct advantage to using a Lookup field. In the database with the Lookup field, I had set the Limit to List property to Yes. I then tweaked my code, and added "XX", instead of a random state, for 10 records. BOTH databases added 10 records with XX in it. Going to the Non-lookup database, I could still manually enter a record with XX as the State. Going to the Lookup database, I could NOT manually enter XX, because it wouldn't let me enter a state not on the list. Setting the field validation for <>"XX" in both tables, prevented the code from adding new records with that value. So that is a very interesting advantage. It allows you to enforce 'user' data entry 'rules', while allowing code inserted/modified data to bypass. That could be handy. One last note. The 'lookup' capability does NOT have to be a SQL statement. Combo boxes and listboxes can both use Callback functions. This DOES apply to Lookup fields. (did a test. Used a previously built Callback function that lists the reports in a db for list/combo box, and added it to a field's lookup property. sure enough, it listed the reports when entering that field.) Drew -- -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From John.Clark at niagaracounty.com Thu Mar 25 15:40:40 2004 From: John.Clark at niagaracounty.com (John Clark) Date: Thu, 25 Mar 2004 16:40:40 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] I wrote a program, about a year ago, and it contains two unbound reports. Each of these reports has Message-ID: I wrote a program, about a year ago, and it contains two unbound reports. Each of these reports has 83 calculated (i.e. statistical) fields on them--they are actually pretty identical with exception that one is a quarterly and the other is a cumulative calculation. The calculations are mostly similar, for example: =DCount("[xAge]","qryOver60-Cumulative","[XAge] >= 60") =DCount("[xAge]","qryOver60-SC-Cumulative","[XAge] >= 60 And [fndCSE] = True And [logLowInc] = True") =DCount("[Legal]","qryPartIII-SC","[Legal] = True") The database (the main table anyhow) has just shy of 7000 records in it. And it seems like all of the sudden, it is taking quite a bit longer for the reports to come up and longer to print once they do. I went in to look at something else today and noticed this. I asked them, if it seemed slower--I thought maybe it was me--and they agreed. Did I do something wrong in setting this up? Should I have made 83 queries instead? Is it the DCount function (I remember hearing something on aggregate functions be slow once--maybe)? This is an A2K program--my first one (I only have about 10 or so A97s out there). There not complaining yet, but I might be, if I were them, so I would like to head it off, if I can. The state came in their office and they, "were very impressed with [the] program," which is another reason I'd like to keep on it--maybe they'd be interested further. Thanks for any advise you can give me! Gotta go to a meeting--see y'all! John W Clark From KIsmert at TexasSystems.com Thu Mar 25 15:53:49 2004 From: KIsmert at TexasSystems.com (Ken Ismert) Date: Thu, 25 Mar 2004 15:53:49 -0600 Subject: [AccessD] Framework Discussion - set up question In-Reply-To: <2F8793082E00D4119A1700B0D0216BF8022279B8@main2.marlow.com> Message-ID: <005301c412b3$a85168d0$2a3ca8c0@TEXASSYSTEMS.COM> Drew, >Lookups are just part of Access' table design, and are relatively >irrelevant when you use Access strictly as a BE. ... But is that >going to affect anything using that .mdb as a BE? No. Try this: 1. Create a blank database. Save it as Test.mdb. 2. Turn off Name Autocorrect (Tools, Options, General) 3. Import all tables from Northwind.mdb. Note that the Orders table has lookups defined for the CustomerID, EmployeeID, and ShipVia fields. 4. Rename the Customers, Employees and Shippers tables. Reopen Orders. You will now get intermittent errors saying the recordsource specified in the lookup doesn't exist. 5. Create a new blank database, and save it as TestLink.mdb. Link to the Orders table in Test.mdb. Open the linked orders table. You will also get the same intermittent errors, especially after re-opening TestLink. (My test platform is A2K.) When a linked table is queried in the front end, Access tries to open ALL the lookup queries associated with that table in the back end. Errors in those lookup queries will propagate to the front end. This can play havoc when trying to recover corrupted data. I personally experienced this when corrupted data in the lookup tables was preventing data in the main table from being read. Only after opening the table in design mode and removing the lookup queries were we able to get a partial recovery. In short, data is too important to risk with such an error-prone feature as table lookups. The performance degradation issues, while valid, are secondary. The same applies for subdatasheets. If you want to use lookups, make a query, and define them there. -Ken -----Original Message----- From: DWUTKA at marlow.com [mailto:DWUTKA at marlow.com] Sent: Thursday, March 25, 2004 1:59 PM To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: RE: [AccessD] Framework Discussion - set up question I don't get that 'main' argument. From DWUTKA at marlow.com Thu Mar 25 15:58:43 2004 From: DWUTKA at marlow.com (DWUTKA at marlow.com) Date: Thu, 25 Mar 2004 15:58:43 -0600 Subject: [AccessD] Framework Discussion - set up question Message-ID: <2F8793082E00D4119A1700B0D0216BF8022279BE@main2.marlow.com> Okay, for number one, let's drop that. It's a pointless argument. If you want to argue that using Lookups adds confusion, then I would REALLY hate to see your table designs. Have you ever tried to explain a many to many table to a 'user'? Trust me, they'll pick up what a 'lookup' field does a LOT faster. And if you aren't using things like many to many tables, because users could get confused, then you are not normalizing your data. See how this is a BAD argument to try to defend against? Now for number 2. You can't hack a feature with a 'feature creep' agrument. Feature creep can affect anything in a bad way, however, if you are getting paid by the hour, or are doing contract work, Feature creep means more money! LOL Drew -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Francisco H Tapia Sent: Thursday, March 25, 2004 3:19 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Framework Discussion - set up question DWUTKA at marlow.com said the following on 3/25/2004 11:53 AM: >What's impractical about Lookup stuff in a table design? > > 1) When you query the table you're querying against some text... instead of ID's... while there is no one right way.. you're adding confusion. 2) when you want to add additonal columns so that the sub table can have it's own set of attributes because the system has "grown" you'll need to revisit the table to make the changes for the FE, but if you're using some sort of BE/FE setup then you can't do anything until all the users are out :) -- -Francisco -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From ssharkins at bellsouth.net Thu Mar 25 16:16:24 2004 From: ssharkins at bellsouth.net (Susan Harkins) Date: Thu, 25 Mar 2004 17:16:24 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Framework Discussion - set up question In-Reply-To: <2F8793082E00D4119A1700B0D0216BF8022279BE@main2.marlow.com> Message-ID: <20040325221619.UXAT17649.imf25aec.mail.bellsouth.net@SUSANONE> I want to know why he's changing the table names? ;) Oh my gosh, what a horrible mess you might create all the way down the line -- not just with lookup fields. Susan H. Okay, for number one, let's drop that. It's a pointless argument. If you want to argue that using Lookups adds confusion, then I would REALLY hate to see your table designs. Have you ever tried to explain a many to many table to a 'user'? Trust me, they'll pick up what a 'lookup' field does a LOT faster. And if you aren't using things like many to many tables, because users could get confused, then you are not normalizing your data. See how this is a BAD argument to try to defend against? Now for number 2. You can't hack a feature with a 'feature creep' agrument. Feature creep can affect anything in a bad way, however, if you are getting paid by the hour, or are doing contract work, Feature creep means more money! LOL From ssharkins at bellsouth.net Thu Mar 25 16:18:23 2004 From: ssharkins at bellsouth.net (Susan Harkins) Date: Thu, 25 Mar 2004 17:18:23 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Lookup Fields in Table Design In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <20040325221817.UYIM17649.imf25aec.mail.bellsouth.net@SUSANONE> Lookup fields are bad in forms? That's why they exist -- the controls automatically inherit the lookup properties. I don't think lookup fields were ever meant to be a table benefit -- but rather an inherited trait for controls. At least, that's always been my take on them. Susan H. And did you try it using *forms*, Drew. That's what users tend to deal with, isn't it? And that's where my experience says they're a bad idea (well, users are often a bad idea, but I'm talking about lookups.) As far as your "advantage", I don't let my users come within a mile of my tables, so where is the advantage? They *can't* manually enter records, period. From DWUTKA at marlow.com Thu Mar 25 16:21:17 2004 From: DWUTKA at marlow.com (DWUTKA at marlow.com) Date: Thu, 25 Mar 2004 16:21:17 -0600 Subject: [AccessD] Lookup Fields in Table Design Message-ID: <2F8793082E00D4119A1700B0D0216BF8022279BF@main2.marlow.com> What's the difference? The Lookup field has NO effect on a Form, other then initial design. When you design a form, using the Wizards or the Field chooser, it will use the Lookup information to determine what kind of default control to use. However, you can certainly use a regular textbox, and bind that to the lookup field, and you just don't have any 'lookup' capabilities. (Including the Limit To list). Be my guest, AutoForm a table with a lookup field that is set to Limit to List. Try to enter 'unlisted' data in that field. Can't. Go into the design of the form. Switch the combo/list box to a textbox. Try to enter 'unlisted' data (which isn't listed anymore...). Sure can. So what's your point? All that the Lookup field is doing, is providing easy data entry from a datasheet view (which is a view of forms too), and a reference for automatic/wizard stuff in Access. No effect at all. Show me a performance decrease. It's easy to SAY it decreases performance. But I haven't seen any yet. I created a continous form on that table with 200,000 records. It opened in a split second, and I could skim through all of the records with ease. No different then the 'copy' database without the Lookup. Jet isn't going to run 200,000 querries on a field, if you have Lookup set! It is going to run it once, and only once, when you ENTER that field. Are you saying that using a combo box that querries something is a performance decrease? I feel sorry for your users! Charlotte, this is starting to look more like a developer's hoax. No performance issue, no bloat. I can't argue if you PREFER not to use something, however, there has yet to be anything brought up (which has been proven true), as far as a downside to lookups. Also, how do you prevent your users from coming within a mile of your tables? If they have access to the data within your table, all they have to do, is open a blank database, link your tables to the blank database, and they now have direct access to your tables. They can do anything they could do in your forms. Now, granted, someone confused by a lookup field in datasheet view may not be able to figure out how to link tables, but then again, I use Access as a BE, and even in BACK ENDS I have used Lookup fields. Want to know why? Because I normalize my data structure. However, if I want to go into the tables, and manually mess with the data, I'd be a GOD if I could remember what every User/Product/Request/Customer/Any other IDed field's ID was. So, if I go into a Many to Many table, and want to look for a possible 'issue', either I have to build a query, to look at the relavent fields (which mean more then just the ID's), OR, if the table design used lookups, I can see what I need right then and there! Drew -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Charlotte Foust Sent: Thursday, March 25, 2004 3:29 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] Lookup Fields in Table Design And did you try it using *forms*, Drew. That's what users tend to deal with, isn't it? And that's where my experience says they're a bad idea (well, users are often a bad idea, but I'm talking about lookups.) As far as your "advantage", I don't let my users come within a mile of my tables, so where is the advantage? They *can't* manually enter records, period. Charlotte Foust -----Original Message----- From: DWUTKA at marlow.com [mailto:DWUTKA at marlow.com] Sent: Thursday, March 25, 2004 1:10 PM To: AccessD at databaseadvisors.com Subject: [AccessD] Lookup Fields in Table Design Okay, the three reasons given so far for not using the Lookup feature in your table designs are: #1: Lazy developer tool, which can confuse users. #2: Performance Decrease. #3: Bloat Okay, for number one, I personally don't see a point in arguing against that, because it's too darn easy to confuse users. If we didn't use something that could confuse a user, we would have to kick our computers out the door! LOL (sorry, couldn't resist). Now for Number 2. Did a simple test. I created a database with a simple lookup table (with a list of states) and then added a table that had a 'State' field. Copied that database, and then added a lookup for the State field, using the tblStates table. Then I created a little code which added 200,000 records to tblCustomerInfo (my 'dummy' table). BOTH databases took about the same amount of time to enter records. (used an INSERT INTO statement.....that took a while, probably would have been faster to use the Add method of a recordset. Either way, both processes took about the same amount of time.). With 200,000 records in the table, in both databases, opening the table in datasheet view takes the same amount of time in either database. Thus, no performance decrease at all. Number 3. Well, I checked the size of both databases along the whole process. (I did put the lookup table in both databases, so they should have been the same 'size'). Guess what, they were. Started at 92,160 bytes (each) with no data other then the US States, and after 200,000 records, both databases were 5,869,568 bytes. I even manually added records (about a dozen), and both databases were still the same size (in bytes), though I didn't write those numbers down. However, and this is a BIG however. I found a distinct advantage to using a Lookup field. In the database with the Lookup field, I had set the Limit to List property to Yes. I then tweaked my code, and added "XX", instead of a random state, for 10 records. BOTH databases added 10 records with XX in it. Going to the Non-lookup database, I could still manually enter a record with XX as the State. Going to the Lookup database, I could NOT manually enter XX, because it wouldn't let me enter a state not on the list. Setting the field validation for <>"XX" in both tables, prevented the code from adding new records with that value. So that is a very interesting advantage. It allows you to enforce 'user' data entry 'rules', while allowing code inserted/modified data to bypass. That could be handy. One last note. The 'lookup' capability does NOT have to be a SQL statement. Combo boxes and listboxes can both use Callback functions. This DOES apply to Lookup fields. (did a test. Used a previously built Callback function that lists the reports in a db for list/combo box, and added it to a field's lookup property. sure enough, it listed the reports when entering that field.) Drew -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From DWUTKA at marlow.com Thu Mar 25 16:21:45 2004 From: DWUTKA at marlow.com (DWUTKA at marlow.com) Date: Thu, 25 Mar 2004 16:21:45 -0600 Subject: [AccessD] Lookup Fields in Table Design Message-ID: <2F8793082E00D4119A1700B0D0216BF8022279C0@main2.marlow.com> My reputation must proceed me! ROTFLMAO! Drew -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Charlotte Foust Sent: Thursday, March 25, 2004 3:32 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] Lookup Fields in Table Design I think you added too soon. The discussion is far from over just because Drew weighed in on one side. Charlotte Foust -----Original Message----- From: John Bartow [mailto:john at winhaven.net] Sent: Thursday, March 25, 2004 1:20 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] Lookup Fields in Table Design Slam and dunk! 5 point sayers! Score: 2 nay-sayers / 7.5 sayers -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of DWUTKA at marlow.com Sent: Thursday, March 25, 2004 3:10 PM To: AccessD at databaseadvisors.com Subject: [AccessD] Lookup Fields in Table Design Okay, the three reasons given so far for not using the Lookup feature in your table designs are: #1: Lazy developer tool, which can confuse users. #2: Performance Decrease. #3: Bloat Okay, for number one, I personally don't see a point in arguing against that, because it's too darn easy to confuse users. If we didn't use something that could confuse a user, we would have to kick our computers out the door! LOL (sorry, couldn't resist). Now for Number 2. Did a simple test. I created a database with a simple lookup table (with a list of states) and then added a table that had a 'State' field. Copied that database, and then added a lookup for the State field, using the tblStates table. Then I created a little code which added 200,000 records to tblCustomerInfo (my 'dummy' table). BOTH databases took about the same amount of time to enter records. (used an INSERT INTO statement.....that took a while, probably would have been faster to use the Add method of a recordset. Either way, both processes took about the same amount of time.). With 200,000 records in the table, in both databases, opening the table in datasheet view takes the same amount of time in either database. Thus, no performance decrease at all. Number 3. Well, I checked the size of both databases along the whole process. (I did put the lookup table in both databases, so they should have been the same 'size'). Guess what, they were. Started at 92,160 bytes (each) with no data other then the US States, and after 200,000 records, both databases were 5,869,568 bytes. I even manually added records (about a dozen), and both databases were still the same size (in bytes), though I didn't write those numbers down. However, and this is a BIG however. I found a distinct advantage to using a Lookup field. In the database with the Lookup field, I had set the Limit to List property to Yes. I then tweaked my code, and added "XX", instead of a random state, for 10 records. BOTH databases added 10 records with XX in it. Going to the Non-lookup database, I could still manually enter a record with XX as the State. Going to the Lookup database, I could NOT manually enter XX, because it wouldn't let me enter a state not on the list. Setting the field validation for <>"XX" in both tables, prevented the code from adding new records with that value. So that is a very interesting advantage. It allows you to enforce 'user' data entry 'rules', while allowing code inserted/modified data to bypass. That could be handy. One last note. The 'lookup' capability does NOT have to be a SQL statement. Combo boxes and listboxes can both use Callback functions. This DOES apply to Lookup fields. (did a test. Used a previously built Callback function that lists the reports in a db for list/combo box, and added it to a field's lookup property. sure enough, it listed the reports when entering that field.) Drew -- -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From DWUTKA at marlow.com Thu Mar 25 16:25:05 2004 From: DWUTKA at marlow.com (DWUTKA at marlow.com) Date: Thu, 25 Mar 2004 16:25:05 -0600 Subject: [AccessD] I wrote a program, about a year ago, and it contain s two unbound reports. Each of these reports has Message-ID: <2F8793082E00D4119A1700B0D0216BF8022279C1@main2.marlow.com> A couple of things. First, make sure you are indexing the age field. (That way, it just has to count the indexes that are over sixty....it's faster....). Next, make sure the database is compacted (which re-indexes everything). Finally, are you constantly using DCount over and over, or are you just doing it twice? If you are running it over and over, I would just pull the value you want, and store it in a variable, OR, if you are pulling up a 'list' of values, pull it as a recordset, with a query, and run through the recordset. Drew -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of John Clark Sent: Thursday, March 25, 2004 3:41 PM To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: [AccessD] I wrote a program, about a year ago, and it contains two unbound reports. Each of these reports has I wrote a program, about a year ago, and it contains two unbound reports. Each of these reports has 83 calculated (i.e. statistical) fields on them--they are actually pretty identical with exception that one is a quarterly and the other is a cumulative calculation. The calculations are mostly similar, for example: =DCount("[xAge]","qryOver60-Cumulative","[XAge] >= 60") =DCount("[xAge]","qryOver60-SC-Cumulative","[XAge] >= 60 And [fndCSE] = True And [logLowInc] = True") =DCount("[Legal]","qryPartIII-SC","[Legal] = True") The database (the main table anyhow) has just shy of 7000 records in it. And it seems like all of the sudden, it is taking quite a bit longer for the reports to come up and longer to print once they do. I went in to look at something else today and noticed this. I asked them, if it seemed slower--I thought maybe it was me--and they agreed. Did I do something wrong in setting this up? Should I have made 83 queries instead? Is it the DCount function (I remember hearing something on aggregate functions be slow once--maybe)? This is an A2K program--my first one (I only have about 10 or so A97s out there). There not complaining yet, but I might be, if I were them, so I would like to head it off, if I can. The state came in their office and they, "were very impressed with [the] program," which is another reason I'd like to keep on it--maybe they'd be interested further. Thanks for any advise you can give me! Gotta go to a meeting--see y'all! John W Clark -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From DWUTKA at marlow.com Thu Mar 25 16:37:09 2004 From: DWUTKA at marlow.com (DWUTKA at marlow.com) Date: Thu, 25 Mar 2004 16:37:09 -0600 Subject: [AccessD] Framework Discussion - set up question Message-ID: <2F8793082E00D4119A1700B0D0216BF8022279C2@main2.marlow.com> Two things. No need to do what you described. Already knew that. First thing. AND? If you could LINK the tables in a corrupted database, you could have also used DAO/ADO to just pull the data. Both of which would have completely ignored the Lookup information. OR, you could have just made dummy tables to represent the lookup tables. Lookup doesn't care if the old data is there or not, and it will look for a local table, whether it's linked, or it's native. It also doesn't perform data integrity checks. It doesn't care if old data fits the lookup stuff or not! Now, if you said that Lookups can cause corruption, completely different story. There are a lot of things that can make recovery difficult, that doesn't mean that you shouldn't use code, ban multiple users from your database, or prevent referential integrity! Second, still have yet to see proof of performance degradation. Show me proof of that before the 'no lookup' side brings it up again! Drew -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Ken Ismert Sent: Thursday, March 25, 2004 3:54 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: [AccessD] Framework Discussion - set up question Drew, >Lookups are just part of Access' table design, and are relatively >irrelevant when you use Access strictly as a BE. ... But is that >going to affect anything using that .mdb as a BE? No. Try this: 1. Create a blank database. Save it as Test.mdb. 2. Turn off Name Autocorrect (Tools, Options, General) 3. Import all tables from Northwind.mdb. Note that the Orders table has lookups defined for the CustomerID, EmployeeID, and ShipVia fields. 4. Rename the Customers, Employees and Shippers tables. Reopen Orders. You will now get intermittent errors saying the recordsource specified in the lookup doesn't exist. 5. Create a new blank database, and save it as TestLink.mdb. Link to the Orders table in Test.mdb. Open the linked orders table. You will also get the same intermittent errors, especially after re-opening TestLink. (My test platform is A2K.) When a linked table is queried in the front end, Access tries to open ALL the lookup queries associated with that table in the back end. Errors in those lookup queries will propagate to the front end. This can play havoc when trying to recover corrupted data. I personally experienced this when corrupted data in the lookup tables was preventing data in the main table from being read. Only after opening the table in design mode and removing the lookup queries were we able to get a partial recovery. In short, data is too important to risk with such an error-prone feature as table lookups. The performance degradation issues, while valid, are secondary. The same applies for subdatasheets. If you want to use lookups, make a query, and define them there. -Ken -----Original Message----- From: DWUTKA at marlow.com [mailto:DWUTKA at marlow.com] Sent: Thursday, March 25, 2004 1:59 PM To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: RE: [AccessD] Framework Discussion - set up question I don't get that 'main' argument. -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From DWUTKA at marlow.com Thu Mar 25 16:38:49 2004 From: DWUTKA at marlow.com (DWUTKA at marlow.com) Date: Thu, 25 Mar 2004 16:38:49 -0600 Subject: [AccessD] Framework Discussion - set up question Message-ID: <2F8793082E00D4119A1700B0D0216BF8022279C3@main2.marlow.com> We're gonna need a BIG bag of marshmallows! Their side is just burning up. Haven't actually added a valid/proven argument yet! LOL Drew -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Susan Harkins Sent: Thursday, March 25, 2004 4:16 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: [AccessD] Framework Discussion - set up question I want to know why he's changing the table names? ;) Oh my gosh, what a horrible mess you might create all the way down the line -- not just with lookup fields. Susan H. Okay, for number one, let's drop that. It's a pointless argument. If you want to argue that using Lookups adds confusion, then I would REALLY hate to see your table designs. Have you ever tried to explain a many to many table to a 'user'? Trust me, they'll pick up what a 'lookup' field does a LOT faster. And if you aren't using things like many to many tables, because users could get confused, then you are not normalizing your data. See how this is a BAD argument to try to defend against? Now for number 2. You can't hack a feature with a 'feature creep' agrument. Feature creep can affect anything in a bad way, however, if you are getting paid by the hour, or are doing contract work, Feature creep means more money! LOL -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From DWUTKA at marlow.com Thu Mar 25 16:39:59 2004 From: DWUTKA at marlow.com (DWUTKA at marlow.com) Date: Thu, 25 Mar 2004 16:39:59 -0600 Subject: [AccessD] Lookup Fields in Table Design Message-ID: <2F8793082E00D4119A1700B0D0216BF8022279C4@main2.marlow.com> Exactly. The advantages of them in table datasheet views is just a perk. I've always viewed them as a way of saving time when building my forms too! Drew -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Susan Harkins Sent: Thursday, March 25, 2004 4:18 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: [AccessD] Lookup Fields in Table Design Lookup fields are bad in forms? That's why they exist -- the controls automatically inherit the lookup properties. I don't think lookup fields were ever meant to be a table benefit -- but rather an inherited trait for controls. At least, that's always been my take on them. Susan H. And did you try it using *forms*, Drew. That's what users tend to deal with, isn't it? And that's where my experience says they're a bad idea (well, users are often a bad idea, but I'm talking about lookups.) As far as your "advantage", I don't let my users come within a mile of my tables, so where is the advantage? They *can't* manually enter records, period. -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From DWUTKA at marlow.com Thu Mar 25 16:42:58 2004 From: DWUTKA at marlow.com (DWUTKA at marlow.com) Date: Thu, 25 Mar 2004 16:42:58 -0600 Subject: Lookup fields WAS: RE: [AccessD] Framework Discussion - set up qu estion Message-ID: <2F8793082E00D4119A1700B0D0216BF8022279C5@main2.marlow.com> You know Susan, the Bounders had MUCH better arguments, and they could defend most of them too. Oh, I miss the good ol' days. Drew -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Susan Harkins Sent: Thursday, March 25, 2004 4:16 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: [AccessD] Framework Discussion - set up question I want to know why he's changing the table names? ;) Oh my gosh, what a horrible mess you might create all the way down the line -- not just with lookup fields. Susan H. Okay, for number one, let's drop that. It's a pointless argument. If you want to argue that using Lookups adds confusion, then I would REALLY hate to see your table designs. Have you ever tried to explain a many to many table to a 'user'? Trust me, they'll pick up what a 'lookup' field does a LOT faster. And if you aren't using things like many to many tables, because users could get confused, then you are not normalizing your data. See how this is a BAD argument to try to defend against? Now for number 2. You can't hack a feature with a 'feature creep' agrument. Feature creep can affect anything in a bad way, however, if you are getting paid by the hour, or are doing contract work, Feature creep means more money! LOL -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com Thu Mar 25 16:57:01 2004 From: jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com (John W. Colby) Date: Thu, 25 Mar 2004 17:57:01 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Framework Discussion - set up question In-Reply-To: <2F8793082E00D4119A1700B0D0216BF8022279C3@main2.marlow.com> Message-ID: Could we change the subject on this? I have a filter that pulls "framework" int a directory and I now have about 100 non-framework messages in there. Thanks, JWC -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of DWUTKA at marlow.com Sent: Thursday, March 25, 2004 5:39 PM To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: RE: [AccessD] Framework Discussion - set up question We're gonna need a BIG bag of marshmallows! Their side is just burning up. Haven't actually added a valid/proven argument yet! LOL Drew -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Susan Harkins Sent: Thursday, March 25, 2004 4:16 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: [AccessD] Framework Discussion - set up question I want to know why he's changing the table names? ;) Oh my gosh, what a horrible mess you might create all the way down the line -- not just with lookup fields. Susan H. Okay, for number one, let's drop that. It's a pointless argument. If you want to argue that using Lookups adds confusion, then I would REALLY hate to see your table designs. Have you ever tried to explain a many to many table to a 'user'? Trust me, they'll pick up what a 'lookup' field does a LOT faster. And if you aren't using things like many to many tables, because users could get confused, then you are not normalizing your data. See how this is a BAD argument to try to defend against? Now for number 2. You can't hack a feature with a 'feature creep' agrument. Feature creep can affect anything in a bad way, however, if you are getting paid by the hour, or are doing contract work, Feature creep means more money! LOL -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From my.lists at verizon.net Thu Mar 25 16:59:55 2004 From: my.lists at verizon.net (Francisco H Tapia) Date: Thu, 25 Mar 2004 14:59:55 -0800 Subject: [AccessD] Lookup Fields in Table Design In-Reply-To: <2F8793082E00D4119A1700B0D0216BF8022279BF@main2.marlow.com> References: <2F8793082E00D4119A1700B0D0216BF8022279BF@main2.marlow.com> Message-ID: <4063646B.6020007@verizon.net> DWUTKA at marlow.com said the following on 3/25/2004 2:21 PM: >So what's your point? All that the Lookup field is doing, is providing easy >data entry from a datasheet view (which is a view of forms too), and a >reference for automatic/wizard stuff in Access. No effect at all. > > So where's the advantage of using the lookup? If anything if I'm customizing the lookup by form, I need to be in the datasource of the combobox anyways. >Show me a performance decrease. It's easy to SAY it decreases performance. > Joining a table adds a layer of complexity to all queries, simple joins make nearly no performance decrease, but when you begin joining tables over tables and you have a lookup associated to a table lets say... about 4 to 5 queries deep.. .well I would venture to say that it has a good possibility to add some performance issues. In a field that takes only 1-5 rows this may not be a problem but what about situations where you have litterally thousands of rows for the lookup... now you've inner joined 2 tables w/o needing to. (depending on your needs of course) a join between 200,000 may not be much, but what about situations where the total rows joined exceeds 1mill.? -- -Francisco From jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com Thu Mar 25 17:01:03 2004 From: jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com (John W. Colby) Date: Thu, 25 Mar 2004 18:01:03 -0500 Subject: Lookup fields WAS: RE: [AccessD] Framework Discussion - set up question In-Reply-To: <2F8793082E00D4119A1700B0D0216BF8022279C5@main2.marlow.com> Message-ID: That's because I have been staying out of it. JWC -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of DWUTKA at marlow.com Sent: Thursday, March 25, 2004 5:43 PM To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: Lookup fields WAS: RE: [AccessD] Framework Discussion - set up question You know Susan, the Bounders had MUCH better arguments, and they could defend most of them too. Oh, I miss the good ol' days. Drew -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Susan Harkins Sent: Thursday, March 25, 2004 4:16 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: [AccessD] Framework Discussion - set up question I want to know why he's changing the table names? ;) Oh my gosh, what a horrible mess you might create all the way down the line -- not just with lookup fields. Susan H. Okay, for number one, let's drop that. It's a pointless argument. If you want to argue that using Lookups adds confusion, then I would REALLY hate to see your table designs. Have you ever tried to explain a many to many table to a 'user'? Trust me, they'll pick up what a 'lookup' field does a LOT faster. And if you aren't using things like many to many tables, because users could get confused, then you are not normalizing your data. See how this is a BAD argument to try to defend against? Now for number 2. You can't hack a feature with a 'feature creep' agrument. Feature creep can affect anything in a bad way, however, if you are getting paid by the hour, or are doing contract work, Feature creep means more money! LOL -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From DWUTKA at marlow.com Thu Mar 25 17:09:58 2004 From: DWUTKA at marlow.com (DWUTKA at marlow.com) Date: Thu, 25 Mar 2004 17:09:58 -0600 Subject: [AccessD] Lookup Thread: WAS: Fr@mework Discussion - set up question Message-ID: <2F8793082E00D4119A1700B0D0216BF8022279C6@main2.marlow.com> Sorry about that. I changed a few of them. There are a few 'threads' on this now. (put the at symbol in there. Hopefully that will fool the filter.) Drew -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of John W. Colby Sent: Thursday, March 25, 2004 4:57 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] Framework Discussion - set up question Could we change the subject on this? I have a filter that pulls "framework" int a directory and I now have about 100 non-framework messages in there. Thanks, JWC -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of DWUTKA at marlow.com Sent: Thursday, March 25, 2004 5:39 PM To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: RE: [AccessD] Framework Discussion - set up question We're gonna need a BIG bag of marshmallows! Their side is just burning up. Haven't actually added a valid/proven argument yet! LOL Drew -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Susan Harkins Sent: Thursday, March 25, 2004 4:16 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: [AccessD] Framework Discussion - set up question I want to know why he's changing the table names? ;) Oh my gosh, what a horrible mess you might create all the way down the line -- not just with lookup fields. Susan H. Okay, for number one, let's drop that. It's a pointless argument. If you want to argue that using Lookups adds confusion, then I would REALLY hate to see your table designs. Have you ever tried to explain a many to many table to a 'user'? Trust me, they'll pick up what a 'lookup' field does a LOT faster. And if you aren't using things like many to many tables, because users could get confused, then you are not normalizing your data. See how this is a BAD argument to try to defend against? Now for number 2. You can't hack a feature with a 'feature creep' agrument. Feature creep can affect anything in a bad way, however, if you are getting paid by the hour, or are doing contract work, Feature creep means more money! LOL -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From KIsmert at TexasSystems.com Thu Mar 25 17:11:52 2004 From: KIsmert at TexasSystems.com (Ken Ismert) Date: Thu, 25 Mar 2004 17:11:52 -0600 Subject: [AccessD] Framework Discussion - set up question In-Reply-To: <20040325221619.UXAT17649.imf25aec.mail.bellsouth.net@SUSANONE> Message-ID: <006d01c412be$8fb7f360$2a3ca8c0@TEXASSYSTEMS.COM> Which 'he' are you referring to? -Ken -----Original Message----- From: Susan Harkins [mailto:ssharkins at bellsouth.net] Sent: Thursday, March 25, 2004 4:16 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: [AccessD] Framework Discussion - set up question I want to know why he's changing the table names? ;) Oh my gosh, what a horrible mess you might create all the way down the line -- not just with lookup fields. Susan H. Okay, for number one, let's drop that. It's a pointless argument. If you want to argue that using Lookups adds confusion, then I would REALLY hate to see your table designs. Have you ever tried to explain a many to many table to a 'user'? Trust me, they'll pick up what a 'lookup' field does a LOT faster. And if you aren't using things like many to many tables, because users could get confused, then you are not normalizing your data. See how this is a BAD argument to try to defend against? Now for number 2. You can't hack a feature with a 'feature creep' agrument. Feature creep can affect anything in a bad way, however, if you are getting paid by the hour, or are doing contract work, Feature creep means more money! LOL From jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com Thu Mar 25 17:16:12 2004 From: jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com (John W. Colby) Date: Thu, 25 Mar 2004 18:16:12 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Lookup Fields in Table Design In-Reply-To: <20040325221817.UYIM17649.imf25aec.mail.bellsouth.net@SUSANONE> Message-ID: mine too -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Susan Harkins Sent: Thursday, March 25, 2004 5:18 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: [AccessD] Lookup Fields in Table Design Lookup fields are bad in forms? That's why they exist -- the controls automatically inherit the lookup properties. I don't think lookup fields were ever meant to be a table benefit -- but rather an inherited trait for controls. At least, that's always been my take on them. Susan H. And did you try it using *forms*, Drew. That's what users tend to deal with, isn't it? And that's where my experience says they're a bad idea (well, users are often a bad idea, but I'm talking about lookups.) As far as your "advantage", I don't let my users come within a mile of my tables, so where is the advantage? They *can't* manually enter records, period. -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From cfoust at infostatsystems.com Thu Mar 25 17:21:24 2004 From: cfoust at infostatsystems.com (Charlotte Foust) Date: Thu, 25 Mar 2004 15:21:24 -0800 Subject: [AccessD] Framework Discussion - set up question Message-ID: Hah! You guys would refuse to acknowledge valid arguments on the other side, regardless, because it doesn't agree with your predelictions! Charlotte Foust -----Original Message----- From: DWUTKA at marlow.com [mailto:DWUTKA at marlow.com] Sent: Thursday, March 25, 2004 2:39 PM To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: RE: [AccessD] Framework Discussion - set up question We're gonna need a BIG bag of marshmallows! Their side is just burning up. Haven't actually added a valid/proven argument yet! LOL Drew -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Susan Harkins Sent: Thursday, March 25, 2004 4:16 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: [AccessD] Framework Discussion - set up question I want to know why he's changing the table names? ;) Oh my gosh, what a horrible mess you might create all the way down the line -- not just with lookup fields. Susan H. Okay, for number one, let's drop that. It's a pointless argument. If you want to argue that using Lookups adds confusion, then I would REALLY hate to see your table designs. Have you ever tried to explain a many to many table to a 'user'? Trust me, they'll pick up what a 'lookup' field does a LOT faster. And if you aren't using things like many to many tables, because users could get confused, then you are not normalizing your data. See how this is a BAD argument to try to defend against? Now for number 2. You can't hack a feature with a 'feature creep' agrument. Feature creep can affect anything in a bad way, however, if you are getting paid by the hour, or are doing contract work, Feature creep means more money! LOL -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From ssharkins at bellsouth.net Thu Mar 25 17:45:11 2004 From: ssharkins at bellsouth.net (Susan Harkins) Date: Thu, 25 Mar 2004 18:45:11 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Framework Discussion - set up question In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <20040325234506.ZPPF1715.imf16aec.mail.bellsouth.net@SUSANONE> I have predelictions? I better go to the doctor... :) Susan H. Hah! You guys would refuse to acknowledge valid arguments on the other side, regardless, because it doesn't agree with your predelictions! From ssharkins at bellsouth.net Thu Mar 25 17:46:26 2004 From: ssharkins at bellsouth.net (Susan Harkins) Date: Thu, 25 Mar 2004 18:46:26 -0500 Subject: Lookup fields WAS: RE: [AccessD] Framework Discussion - set up question In-Reply-To: <2F8793082E00D4119A1700B0D0216BF8022279C5@main2.marlow.com> Message-ID: <20040325234624.ZQCI1715.imf16aec.mail.bellsouth.net@SUSANONE> Hey, I just start em... ;) Susan H. You know Susan, the Bounders had MUCH better arguments, and they could defend most of them too. Oh, I miss the good ol' days. From john at winhaven.net Thu Mar 25 18:01:49 2004 From: john at winhaven.net (John Bartow) Date: Thu, 25 Mar 2004 18:01:49 -0600 Subject: [AccessD] Framework Discussion - set up question In-Reply-To: <40634CAD.9070000@verizon.net> Message-ID: 1. First off I only would use this with related fields so the lookup (combo) would always be based on a query with the key field hidden. CMIIW but lookup properties don't change the query speed unless you weren't planning on displaying the intelligible data in the first place. The query is based on the table's data, ie. the key, it just display the text data as if you add that field to the query - which would normally be done anyway. Who queries to display the keyID field (unless its a subquery)? 2. I agree, this can be an issue. score: nay-sayers 2 / sayers 7.5 DWUTKA at marlow.com said the following on 3/25/2004 11:53 AM: >What's impractical about Lookup stuff in a table design? > > 1) When you query the table you're querying against some text... instead of ID's... while there is no one right way.. you're adding confusion. 2) when you want to add additonal columns so that the sub table can have it's own set of attributes because the system has "grown" you'll need to revisit the table to make the changes for the FE, but if you're using some sort of BE/FE setup then you can't do anything until all the users are out :) -- -Francisco From DWUTKA at marlow.com Thu Mar 25 18:06:01 2004 From: DWUTKA at marlow.com (DWUTKA at marlow.com) Date: Thu, 25 Mar 2004 18:06:01 -0600 Subject: [AccessD] Lookup Fields in Table Design Message-ID: <2F8793082E00D4119A1700B0D0216BF8022279C7@main2.marlow.com> HUH? I've already listed many advantages to using a Lookup definition in a table's field. I'm not going to go over them again. Just read the last several posts. Next, saying there is a performance decrease, and SHOWING there is a performance decrease, are two totally separate things. I saw NO difference with 200,000 records. Over a million records? sure. 0*5....is....oh shoot, I used to know my math....oh ya ZERO! Now granted, if I saw no difference with 5 records, there could be a fudge factor in there. But I didn't see a difference with 200,000 records. NONE. Why wasn't there a difference? Simple, BECAUSE IT'S NOT A JOIN, IT'S NOT A LINK, IT'S A LOOKUP!!!! That means, that it is ONLY looking up the Rowsource (unless you use a callback, then it's The rowsource TYPE), when a particular field is entered. When you pull up a billion zillion records, it isn't running the lookup 'query' a billion zillion times!!!! It doesn't do that with a combo box, on a continuous form, does it? Nope, it doesn't do it with lookups either. Okay, you REALLY want to proof yourself wrong? Here's a challenge. Build a local Access table, and put a lookup field, that references your SQL server. Watch your SQL server transaction/processes. Do you see it pegging? No, because it doesn't query it for every record. It hits the lookup table to make sure it's there, and that's it! You can't PUT a Join into a Lookup field! (Yes, you can use a join in an SQL table, but you can't refer to a field in a particular record, within the Lookup field (ie, base a list of something off of a specific field within the table.).). Drew -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Francisco H Tapia Sent: Thursday, March 25, 2004 5:00 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Lookup Fields in Table Design DWUTKA at marlow.com said the following on 3/25/2004 2:21 PM: >So what's your point? All that the Lookup field is doing, is providing easy >data entry from a datasheet view (which is a view of forms too), and a >reference for automatic/wizard stuff in Access. No effect at all. > > So where's the advantage of using the lookup? If anything if I'm customizing the lookup by form, I need to be in the datasource of the combobox anyways. >Show me a performance decrease. It's easy to SAY it decreases performance. > Joining a table adds a layer of complexity to all queries, simple joins make nearly no performance decrease, but when you begin joining tables over tables and you have a lookup associated to a table lets say... about 4 to 5 queries deep.. .well I would venture to say that it has a good possibility to add some performance issues. In a field that takes only 1-5 rows this may not be a problem but what about situations where you have litterally thousands of rows for the lookup... now you've inner joined 2 tables w/o needing to. (depending on your needs of course) a join between 200,000 may not be much, but what about situations where the total rows joined exceeds 1mill.? -- -Francisco -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From DWUTKA at marlow.com Thu Mar 25 18:06:19 2004 From: DWUTKA at marlow.com (DWUTKA at marlow.com) Date: Thu, 25 Mar 2004 18:06:19 -0600 Subject: Lookup fields WAS: RE: [AccessD] Framework Discussion - set u p question Message-ID: <2F8793082E00D4119A1700B0D0216BF8022279C8@main2.marlow.com> And where would your comment lie? Drew -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of John W. Colby Sent: Thursday, March 25, 2004 5:01 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: Lookup fields WAS: RE: [AccessD] Framework Discussion - set up question That's because I have been staying out of it. JWC -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of DWUTKA at marlow.com Sent: Thursday, March 25, 2004 5:43 PM To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: Lookup fields WAS: RE: [AccessD] Framework Discussion - set up question You know Susan, the Bounders had MUCH better arguments, and they could defend most of them too. Oh, I miss the good ol' days. Drew -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Susan Harkins Sent: Thursday, March 25, 2004 4:16 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: [AccessD] Framework Discussion - set up question I want to know why he's changing the table names? ;) Oh my gosh, what a horrible mess you might create all the way down the line -- not just with lookup fields. Susan H. Okay, for number one, let's drop that. It's a pointless argument. If you want to argue that using Lookups adds confusion, then I would REALLY hate to see your table designs. Have you ever tried to explain a many to many table to a 'user'? Trust me, they'll pick up what a 'lookup' field does a LOT faster. And if you aren't using things like many to many tables, because users could get confused, then you are not normalizing your data. See how this is a BAD argument to try to defend against? Now for number 2. You can't hack a feature with a 'feature creep' agrument. Feature creep can affect anything in a bad way, however, if you are getting paid by the hour, or are doing contract work, Feature creep means more money! LOL -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From john at winhaven.net Thu Mar 25 18:11:13 2004 From: john at winhaven.net (John Bartow) Date: Thu, 25 Mar 2004 18:11:13 -0600 Subject: [AccessD] Lookup Fields in Table Design In-Reply-To: Message-ID: whistles blow! penalty! unnecessary roughness! -.5 score: nay-sayers 1.5 / sayers 7.5 PS: what the hell is a sayer? -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Charlotte Foust Sent: Thursday, March 25, 2004 3:32 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] Lookup Fields in Table Design I think you added too soon. The discussion is far from over just because Drew weighed in on one side. Charlotte Foust From john at winhaven.net Thu Mar 25 18:11:13 2004 From: john at winhaven.net (John Bartow) Date: Thu, 25 Mar 2004 18:11:13 -0600 Subject: [AccessD] Framework Discussion - set up question In-Reply-To: <20040325221619.UXAT17649.imf25aec.mail.bellsouth.net@SUSANONE> Message-ID: s'mores anyone? ;o) -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Susan Harkins Sent: Thursday, March 25, 2004 4:16 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: [AccessD] Framework Discussion - set up question I want to know why he's changing the table names? ;) Oh my gosh, what a horrible mess you might create all the way down the line -- not just with lookup fields. Susan H. From john at winhaven.net Thu Mar 25 18:11:14 2004 From: john at winhaven.net (John Bartow) Date: Thu, 25 Mar 2004 18:11:14 -0600 Subject: [AccessD] Lookup Fields in Table Design In-Reply-To: <2F8793082E00D4119A1700B0D0216BF8022279C0@main2.marlow.com> Message-ID: OK, he took it well, you get your .5 back Score: nay-sayers 2 / sayer 7.5 -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of DWUTKA at marlow.com Sent: Thursday, March 25, 2004 4:22 PM To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: RE: [AccessD] Lookup Fields in Table Design My reputation must proceed me! ROTFLMAO! Drew -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Charlotte Foust Sent: Thursday, March 25, 2004 3:32 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] Lookup Fields in Table Design I think you added too soon. The discussion is far from over just because Drew weighed in on one side. Charlotte Foust -----Original Message----- From: John Bartow [mailto:john at winhaven.net] Sent: Thursday, March 25, 2004 1:20 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] Lookup Fields in Table Design Slam and dunk! 5 point sayers! Score: 2 nay-sayers / 7.5 sayers -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of DWUTKA at marlow.com Sent: Thursday, March 25, 2004 3:10 PM To: AccessD at databaseadvisors.com Subject: [AccessD] Lookup Fields in Table Design Okay, the three reasons given so far for not using the Lookup feature in your table designs are: #1: Lazy developer tool, which can confuse users. #2: Performance Decrease. #3: Bloat Okay, for number one, I personally don't see a point in arguing against that, because it's too darn easy to confuse users. If we didn't use something that could confuse a user, we would have to kick our computers out the door! LOL (sorry, couldn't resist). Now for Number 2. Did a simple test. I created a database with a simple lookup table (with a list of states) and then added a table that had a 'State' field. Copied that database, and then added a lookup for the State field, using the tblStates table. Then I created a little code which added 200,000 records to tblCustomerInfo (my 'dummy' table). BOTH databases took about the same amount of time to enter records. (used an INSERT INTO statement.....that took a while, probably would have been faster to use the Add method of a recordset. Either way, both processes took about the same amount of time.). With 200,000 records in the table, in both databases, opening the table in datasheet view takes the same amount of time in either database. Thus, no performance decrease at all. Number 3. Well, I checked the size of both databases along the whole process. (I did put the lookup table in both databases, so they should have been the same 'size'). Guess what, they were. Started at 92,160 bytes (each) with no data other then the US States, and after 200,000 records, both databases were 5,869,568 bytes. I even manually added records (about a dozen), and both databases were still the same size (in bytes), though I didn't write those numbers down. However, and this is a BIG however. I found a distinct advantage to using a Lookup field. In the database with the Lookup field, I had set the Limit to List property to Yes. I then tweaked my code, and added "XX", instead of a random state, for 10 records. BOTH databases added 10 records with XX in it. Going to the Non-lookup database, I could still manually enter a record with XX as the State. Going to the Lookup database, I could NOT manually enter XX, because it wouldn't let me enter a state not on the list. Setting the field validation for <>"XX" in both tables, prevented the code from adding new records with that value. So that is a very interesting advantage. It allows you to enforce 'user' data entry 'rules', while allowing code inserted/modified data to bypass. That could be handy. One last note. The 'lookup' capability does NOT have to be a SQL statement. Combo boxes and listboxes can both use Callback functions. This DOES apply to Lookup fields. (did a test. Used a previously built Callback function that lists the reports in a db for list/combo box, and added it to a field's lookup property. sure enough, it listed the reports when entering that field.) Drew -- -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From john at winhaven.net Thu Mar 25 18:11:16 2004 From: john at winhaven.net (John Bartow) Date: Thu, 25 Mar 2004 18:11:16 -0600 Subject: [AccessD] Framework Discussion - set up question In-Reply-To: <20040325221619.UXAT17649.imf25aec.mail.bellsouth.net@SUSANONE> Message-ID: It happens, somethings are beyond our control... -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Susan Harkins Sent: Thursday, March 25, 2004 4:16 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: [AccessD] Framework Discussion - set up question I want to know why he's changing the table names? ;) Oh my gosh, what a horrible mess you might create all the way down the line -- not just with lookup fields. Susan H. From john at winhaven.net Thu Mar 25 18:11:17 2004 From: john at winhaven.net (John Bartow) Date: Thu, 25 Mar 2004 18:11:17 -0600 Subject: [AccessD] Framework Discussion - set up question In-Reply-To: <005301c412b3$a85168d0$2a3ca8c0@TEXASSYSTEMS.COM> Message-ID: +.5 on the corruption - I don't buy it as reason to not use lookups but you scared me a little before I got to the end and I really have to cut the nay-sayers some slack they're so far behind here - gotta please the crowd too! :o) Score: nay-sayers 2.5 / sayer 7.5 -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Ken Ismert Sent: Thursday, March 25, 2004 3:54 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: [AccessD] Framework Discussion - set up question Drew, >Lookups are just part of Access' table design, and are relatively >irrelevant when you use Access strictly as a BE. ... But is that >going to affect anything using that .mdb as a BE? No. Try this: 1. Create a blank database. Save it as Test.mdb. 2. Turn off Name Autocorrect (Tools, Options, General) 3. Import all tables from Northwind.mdb. Note that the Orders table has lookups defined for the CustomerID, EmployeeID, and ShipVia fields. 4. Rename the Customers, Employees and Shippers tables. Reopen Orders. You will now get intermittent errors saying the recordsource specified in the lookup doesn't exist. 5. Create a new blank database, and save it as TestLink.mdb. Link to the Orders table in Test.mdb. Open the linked orders table. You will also get the same intermittent errors, especially after re-opening TestLink. (My test platform is A2K.) When a linked table is queried in the front end, Access tries to open ALL the lookup queries associated with that table in the back end. Errors in those lookup queries will propagate to the front end. This can play havoc when trying to recover corrupted data. I personally experienced this when corrupted data in the lookup tables was preventing data in the main table from being read. Only after opening the table in design mode and removing the lookup queries were we able to get a partial recovery. In short, data is too important to risk with such an error-prone feature as table lookups. The performance degradation issues, while valid, are secondary. The same applies for subdatasheets. If you want to use lookups, make a query, and define them there. -Ken -----Original Message----- From: DWUTKA at marlow.com [mailto:DWUTKA at marlow.com] Sent: Thursday, March 25, 2004 1:59 PM To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: RE: [AccessD] Framework Discussion - set up question I don't get that 'main' argument. -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From ssharkins at bellsouth.net Thu Mar 25 18:12:50 2004 From: ssharkins at bellsouth.net (Susan Harkins) Date: Thu, 25 Mar 2004 19:12:50 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Framework Discussion - set up question In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <20040326001244.HXLT1780.imf23aec.mail.bellsouth.net@SUSANONE> But lookup fields are the only issue in this regard. It's a wash. Remember the user, remember the environment. I believe the Access development team wants Access to be more user friendly to the average user and this is just one of the many features that make that happen. The lone user doesn't even split a database unless there's a functional reason for doing so. I use several in my own work, none of them are split -- no need for it. Because a lookup field may not be a good choice in one environment doesn't condemn it for all. Other than that, I have no opinion. ;) Susan H. 2. I agree, this can be an issue. 2) when you want to add additonal columns so that the sub table can have it's own set of attributes because the system has "grown" you'll need to revisit the table to make the changes for the FE, but if you're using some sort of BE/FE setup then you can't do anything until all the users are out :) -- -Francisco -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From DWUTKA at marlow.com Thu Mar 25 18:18:23 2004 From: DWUTKA at marlow.com (DWUTKA at marlow.com) Date: Thu, 25 Mar 2004 18:18:23 -0600 Subject: [AccessD] Framework Discussion - set up question Message-ID: <2F8793082E00D4119A1700B0D0216BF8022279C9@main2.marlow.com> Um, no. I tested it. I have proven beyond a shadow of a doubt that their is NO bloat. (I'll be happy to send you the test databases....or, you could prove it to yourself. Better yet, PROVE that there IS bloat! HAH!). I have also tested the performance. NO PERFORMANCE issue at all. Now, that means that our side has not only 'acknowledged' your agruments, but we have gone and shown them to be false. In a normal debate, you would then go and try to find a particular instance where you might be right. However, since we have TESTED our proof, you would need to do the same, because coming back with 'Ya, well, what if you used a lookup, that hit a NASA satellite , to find out the exact number of sunspots at that moment in time, and then linked that data with a complex Join against an Oracle database, if you were dealing with a billion records, THEN Lookups would be a performance issue.' is kind of lame, with no steps to recreate, or links to actual proof. Here's an example of definitive proof: Put the code below in a module, then set a field to have DBReportNames in the RowsourceType. NOTICE, the acLBGetValue 'code' has a little extra that WAITS an entire second before it returns anything. Now, open the table. Did you notice any delay? I did this to my 200,000 record table. I only put 1 test report in, but by YOUR performance issue, I should have not seen anything for 200,000 seconds, because it should have done 'something' since there is a lookup. Well it didn't. Ah, but maybe the code isn't working. Nope again. Go ahead and select the field you have the lookup setup for. Sure enough, it will delay a second for each report, before displaying it in the combo box. Hmmmmmmmmmm. Proof that there is no performance degradation, and I've already proven no bloat. Now, what 'arguments' are we ignoring? Drew (example code below) Option Compare Database Option Explicit Public lstReportNameArrayCount As Long Public lstReportNameArray() Function DBReportNames(ctrl As Control, id As Variant, row As Variant, col As Variant, code As Variant) As Variant Select Case code Case acLBInitialize 'Okay, we need to create the array Dim ctr As Container Dim dbs As Database Set dbs = CurrentDb Set ctr = dbs.Containers!Reports Dim rpt As Document Dim i As Long lstReportNameArrayCount = ctr.Documents.Count ReDim lstReportNameArray(1 To lstReportNameArrayCount) i = 1 For Each rpt In ctr.Documents lstReportNameArray(i) = rpt.Name i = i + 1 Next rpt Set dbs = Nothing Set ctr = Nothing DBReportNames = 1 Case acLBOpen DBReportNames = 1 Case acLBGetRowCount DBReportNames = lstReportNameArrayCount Case acLBGetColumnCount DBReportNames = 1 Case acLBGetColumnWidth DBReportNames = -1 Case acLBGetValue Dim tmpTime As Date tmpTime = Now() Do Until Now >= tmpTime + (1 / 24 / 60 / 60) Loop DBReportNames = lstReportNameArray(row + 1) Case acLBGetFormat DBReportNames = -1 Case acLBEnd ReDim lstReportNameArray(1 To 1) lstReportNameArrayCount = -1 End Select End Function -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Charlotte Foust Sent: Thursday, March 25, 2004 5:21 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] Framework Discussion - set up question Hah! You guys would refuse to acknowledge valid arguments on the other side, regardless, because it doesn't agree with your predelictions! Charlotte Foust -----Original Message----- From: DWUTKA at marlow.com [mailto:DWUTKA at marlow.com] Sent: Thursday, March 25, 2004 2:39 PM To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: RE: [AccessD] Framework Discussion - set up question We're gonna need a BIG bag of marshmallows! Their side is just burning up. Haven't actually added a valid/proven argument yet! LOL Drew -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Susan Harkins Sent: Thursday, March 25, 2004 4:16 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: [AccessD] Framework Discussion - set up question I want to know why he's changing the table names? ;) Oh my gosh, what a horrible mess you might create all the way down the line -- not just with lookup fields. Susan H. Okay, for number one, let's drop that. It's a pointless argument. If you want to argue that using Lookups adds confusion, then I would REALLY hate to see your table designs. Have you ever tried to explain a many to many table to a 'user'? Trust me, they'll pick up what a 'lookup' field does a LOT faster. And if you aren't using things like many to many tables, because users could get confused, then you are not normalizing your data. See how this is a BAD argument to try to defend against? Now for number 2. You can't hack a feature with a 'feature creep' agrument. Feature creep can affect anything in a bad way, however, if you are getting paid by the hour, or are doing contract work, Feature creep means more money! LOL -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From martyconnelly at shaw.ca Thu Mar 25 18:18:06 2004 From: martyconnelly at shaw.ca (MartyConnelly) Date: Thu, 25 Mar 2004 16:18:06 -0800 Subject: [AccessD] Synchronize with Palm or PocketPC References: <000a01c410f5$a52eb4b0$de1811d8@DanWaters> Message-ID: <406376BE.9080305@shaw.ca> http://www.microsoft.com/windowsmobile/resources/providers/search.asp search under software and look for databases there are about 20 different products This is one that pops up http://www.kelbran.com/products/WirelessDB.html Dan Waters wrote: >Carlos, > >Now 3 ways to investigate! > >Thanks! >Dan > >-----Original Message----- >From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com >[mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Carlos Alberto >Alves >Sent: Tuesday, March 23, 2004 2:39 AM >To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving >Subject: Re: [AccessD] Synchronize with Palm or PocketPC > >On Fri, 19 Mar 2004 14:04:02 -0600, Dan Waters >wrote: > > > >>Hello everyone, >> >> >> >>I have a client where a possibly good solution would be to enter >>information >>into a PDA and then synchronize it with an Access app once per day. >> >> >> >>Can anyone point me in a direction to learn more about this? Anyone have >>any good/lousy experiences? >> >> >> >>Thanks! >> >>Dan Waters >> >> >> > >Take a look at http://www.syware.com/ >HTH, > > -- Marty Connelly Victoria, B.C. Canada From john at winhaven.net Thu Mar 25 18:21:22 2004 From: john at winhaven.net (John Bartow) Date: Thu, 25 Mar 2004 18:21:22 -0600 Subject: [AccessD] Lookup Fields in Table Design In-Reply-To: Message-ID: OK, Sorry -1 both sides for inconsiderate subject line... Score: nay-sayers 1 / sayer 6.5 -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of John W. Colby Sent: Thursday, March 25, 2004 4:57 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] Framework Discussion - set up question Could we change the subject on this? I have a filter that pulls "framework" int a directory and I now have about 100 non-framework messages in there. Thanks, JWC From john at winhaven.net Thu Mar 25 18:21:23 2004 From: john at winhaven.net (John Bartow) Date: Thu, 25 Mar 2004 18:21:23 -0600 Subject: [AccessD] Lookup Fields in Table Design In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Now you're just trying to confuse me! (yeah, like, that's tough to do) I looked up predelictions, its NOT in the dictionary. Seriously thinking of throwing another penalty on Charlotte... -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Charlotte Foust Sent: Thursday, March 25, 2004 5:21 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] Framework Discussion - set up question Hah! You guys would refuse to acknowledge valid arguments on the other side, regardless, because it doesn't agree with your predelictions! Charlotte Foust From ssharkins at bellsouth.net Thu Mar 25 18:28:14 2004 From: ssharkins at bellsouth.net (Susan Harkins) Date: Thu, 25 Mar 2004 19:28:14 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Framework Discussion - set up question In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <20040326002809.NIHG1709.imf20aec.mail.bellsouth.net@SUSANONE> I'm just saying that the problems in doing so aren't restricted to lookup fields. Susan H. It happens, somethings are beyond our control... I want to know why he's changing the table names? ;) Oh my gosh, what a horrible mess you might create all the way down the line -- not just with lookup fields. From ssharkins at bellsouth.net Thu Mar 25 18:28:59 2004 From: ssharkins at bellsouth.net (Susan Harkins) Date: Thu, 25 Mar 2004 19:28:59 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Framework Discussion - set up question In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <20040326002857.NIRL1709.imf20aec.mail.bellsouth.net@SUSANONE> Sympathy points -- bah! Susan H. +.5 on the corruption - I don't buy it as reason to not use lookups but +you scared me a little before I got to the end and I really have to cut the nay-sayers some slack they're so far behind here - gotta please the crowd too! :o) Score: nay-sayers 2.5 / sayer 7.5 From cfoust at infostatsystems.com Thu Mar 25 18:29:59 2004 From: cfoust at infostatsystems.com (Charlotte Foust) Date: Thu, 25 Mar 2004 16:29:59 -0800 Subject: [AccessD] Lookup Fields in Table Design Message-ID: That's because I misspelled it in my eagerness to cast nasturtiums on Drew! pred?i?lec?tion (pr?d'l-?k'sh?n, pr?d'-) n. A partiality or disposition in favor of something; a preference. Charlotte Foust -----Original Message----- From: John Bartow [mailto:john at winhaven.net] Sent: Thursday, March 25, 2004 4:21 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Lookup Fields in Table Design Now you're just trying to confuse me! (yeah, like, that's tough to do) I looked up predelictions, its NOT in the dictionary. Seriously thinking of throwing another penalty on Charlotte... -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Charlotte Foust Sent: Thursday, March 25, 2004 5:21 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] Framework Discussion - set up question Hah! You guys would refuse to acknowledge valid arguments on the other side, regardless, because it doesn't agree with your predelictions! Charlotte Foust -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From ssharkins at bellsouth.net Thu Mar 25 18:30:29 2004 From: ssharkins at bellsouth.net (Susan Harkins) Date: Thu, 25 Mar 2004 19:30:29 -0500 Subject: Lookups revisited (RE: [AccessD] Framework Discussion - set up question) In-Reply-To: <2F8793082E00D4119A1700B0D0216BF8022279C9@main2.marlow.com> Message-ID: <20040326003023.NJKI1709.imf20aec.mail.bellsouth.net@SUSANONE> Changing the subject before JC hurts one of us. Susan H. Um, no. I tested it. I have proven beyond a shadow of a doubt that their is NO bloat. (I'll be happy to send you the test databases....or, you could prove it to yourself. Better yet, PROVE that there IS bloat! HAH!). I have also tested the performance. NO PERFORMANCE issue at all. Now, that means that our side has not only 'acknowledged' your agruments, but we have gone and shown them to be false. In a normal debate, you would then go and try to find a particular instance where you might be right. However, since we have TESTED our proof, you would need to do the same, because coming back with 'Ya, well, what if you used a lookup, that hit a NASA satellite , to find out the exact number of sunspots at that moment in time, and then linked that data with a complex Join against an Oracle database, if you were dealing with a billion records, THEN Lookups would be a performance issue.' is kind of lame, with no steps to recreate, or links to actual proof. Here's an example of definitive proof: Put the code below in a module, then set a field to have DBReportNames in the RowsourceType. NOTICE, the acLBGetValue 'code' has a little extra that WAITS an entire second before it returns anything. Now, open the table. Did you notice any delay? I did this to my 200,000 record table. I only put 1 test report in, but by YOUR performance issue, I should have not seen anything for 200,000 seconds, because it should have done 'something' since there is a lookup. Well it didn't. Ah, but maybe the code isn't working. Nope again. Go ahead and select the field you have the lookup setup for. Sure enough, it will delay a second for each report, before displaying it in the combo box. Hmmmmmmmmmm. Proof that there is no performance degradation, and I've already proven no bloat. Now, what 'arguments' are we ignoring? Drew (example code below) Option Compare Database Option Explicit Public lstReportNameArrayCount As Long Public lstReportNameArray() Function DBReportNames(ctrl As Control, id As Variant, row As Variant, col As Variant, code As Variant) As Variant Select Case code Case acLBInitialize 'Okay, we need to create the array Dim ctr As Container Dim dbs As Database Set dbs = CurrentDb Set ctr = dbs.Containers!Reports Dim rpt As Document Dim i As Long lstReportNameArrayCount = ctr.Documents.Count ReDim lstReportNameArray(1 To lstReportNameArrayCount) i = 1 For Each rpt In ctr.Documents lstReportNameArray(i) = rpt.Name i = i + 1 Next rpt Set dbs = Nothing Set ctr = Nothing DBReportNames = 1 Case acLBOpen DBReportNames = 1 Case acLBGetRowCount DBReportNames = lstReportNameArrayCount Case acLBGetColumnCount DBReportNames = 1 Case acLBGetColumnWidth DBReportNames = -1 Case acLBGetValue Dim tmpTime As Date tmpTime = Now() Do Until Now >= tmpTime + (1 / 24 / 60 / 60) Loop DBReportNames = lstReportNameArray(row + 1) Case acLBGetFormat DBReportNames = -1 Case acLBEnd ReDim lstReportNameArray(1 To 1) lstReportNameArrayCount = -1 End Select End Function -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Charlotte Foust Sent: Thursday, March 25, 2004 5:21 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] Framework Discussion - set up question Hah! You guys would refuse to acknowledge valid arguments on the other side, regardless, because it doesn't agree with your predelictions! Charlotte Foust -----Original Message----- From: DWUTKA at marlow.com [mailto:DWUTKA at marlow.com] Sent: Thursday, March 25, 2004 2:39 PM To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: RE: [AccessD] Framework Discussion - set up question We're gonna need a BIG bag of marshmallows! Their side is just burning up. Haven't actually added a valid/proven argument yet! LOL Drew -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Susan Harkins Sent: Thursday, March 25, 2004 4:16 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: [AccessD] Framework Discussion - set up question I want to know why he's changing the table names? ;) Oh my gosh, what a horrible mess you might create all the way down the line -- not just with lookup fields. Susan H. Okay, for number one, let's drop that. It's a pointless argument. If you want to argue that using Lookups adds confusion, then I would REALLY hate to see your table designs. Have you ever tried to explain a many to many table to a 'user'? Trust me, they'll pick up what a 'lookup' field does a LOT faster. And if you aren't using things like many to many tables, because users could get confused, then you are not normalizing your data. See how this is a BAD argument to try to defend against? Now for number 2. You can't hack a feature with a 'feature creep' agrument. Feature creep can affect anything in a bad way, however, if you are getting paid by the hour, or are doing contract work, Feature creep means more money! LOL -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From martyconnelly at shaw.ca Thu Mar 25 18:34:34 2004 From: martyconnelly at shaw.ca (MartyConnelly) Date: Thu, 25 Mar 2004 16:34:34 -0800 Subject: [AccessD] Web Pages in Access References: <30445198.1080117818990.JavaMail.www@wwinf3003> Message-ID: <40637A9A.8050305@shaw.ca> Make sure you can protect against CSS cross side scripting and sql injection attacks as a start http://www.patrice.ch/en/computer/web/articles/2002/web_security.pdf To test if you are susceptible Just enter this in one of your form fields to be entered in the database or even in your userid or password logon fields Now this can also be circumvented with this type of query string: str=%3Cscript%0D%0A%3Ealert(testing)%3C%2Fscript%3E Or to make it more human readable: str=alert(testing) paul.hartland at fsmail.net wrote: >Thanks, will try that.... > > > > > >Message date : Mar 24 2004, 06:57 AM >>From : "S D" >To : "Access Developers discussion and problem solving" >Copy to : >Subject : Re: Re: Re: [AccessD] Web Pages in Access >Here you go: > >http://www.asp101.com/samples/login.asp > >Regards, > >Sander. > >PS: this is a great site for a beginner. Very clear samples WITH GREAT expl. > >paul.hartland at fsmail.net wrote: >Sander, > >The original message was from Dale, I replied with my question of sample code for ASP logon etc which checks a username and password from an Access or SQL Server database. > >Im still after any sample code with a brief explanation of how it all works for an ASP logon page. > >Paul > > > > > > >Message date : Mar 23 2004, 02:48 PM >>From : "S D" >To : "Access Developers discussion and problem solving" >Copy to : >Subject : Re: Re: [AccessD] Web Pages in Access >Paul, > >is it standard ASP that you want? >I've had to deal with the same problem and that's why I started building my own pages for testing and such. > >I can send them to you off-line if you want. > >I'm not exactly sure what you did but if you somehow exporterd you're standard Access master-detail form to ASP...I don't think that that will work. ASP doesn't have 'sub-forms' Maybe Access-ASP has. In standard ASP you would build a table using HTML and fill it with a recordset. > >Then you would have to check how many records you would like to see....create nav buttons...aarhg the horror is getting worse and worse. > >If need the samples let me know. I believe I use a SQL-Server as data thingy...hmm have to look tonight. > >Regards, > >Sander > >paul.hartland at fsmail.net wrote: >Tell you what, I'm just about to start getting into HTML, ASP etc (horrified at the thought, but it has to be done). So if anyone has sample code for a pretty secure logon page that will then direct the user to a menu page if the password is correct etc I would like to see the code, preferably with a simple explanation of how it works. I have found various little bits and pieces on the web but could never get them to work properly. >Paul Hartland > > > > > >Message date : Mar 23 2004, 12:34 PM >>From : chris at thecube.net >To : accessd at databaseadvisors.com >Copy to : >Subject : Re: [AccessD] Web Pages in Access >Dale, > >Looks like you need to start venturing into ASP, if you cade code using recordsets then ASP is not >really that big a step. Let me know if you would like a kick start and/or sample ASP > >Cheers > >Chris >----- Original Message ----- >From: Dale Kalsow >To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com >Sent: Mon, 22 Mar 2004 12:51:40 -0800 (PST) >Subject: [AccessD] Web Pages in Access > >Does Anyone have experiance with creating web pages through Acess. I have a form that currently >works within access. It displays the fields of a table and then has a subform that displays (and >allows modifications) all of the parts that go along with the master record. I can export the form >to html but loose the subform and have not been able to figure out how to recrate the functionally >of the subform. > >All help is appreciated! > >Thanks! > >Dale > >Do you Yahoo!? >Yahoo! Finance Tax Center - File online. File on time. > > -- Marty Connelly Victoria, B.C. Canada From accessd at shaw.ca Thu Mar 25 19:10:36 2004 From: accessd at shaw.ca (Jim Lawrence (AccessD)) Date: Thu, 25 Mar 2004 17:10:36 -0800 Subject: [AccessD] Framework Discussion - set up question In-Reply-To: <2F8793082E00D4119A1700B0D0216BF8022279B5@main2.marlow.com> Message-ID: Hi Drew: ...and expanding on your comments. Just today, I was told by an Oracle guru that the 'Access toy' could not connect to Oracle let alone connect to two separate Oracle DBs. Then when he was shown that it did he said that some inline code must have been added because Access was not capable of it. It is difficult to deal with that mindset... Jim -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of DWUTKA at marlow.com Sent: Thursday, March 25, 2004 11:45 AM To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: RE: [AccessD] Framework Discussion - set up question I have to agree with Susan on this. Yes, it is a tool to build desktop applications. However, so is Word, Excel, and even Outlook for that matter. VBA is a POWERFUL tool, and can quite frankly do anything it wants too, to a Windows OS. However, The Office Suite was ALSO meant to be a tool for the average user. No coding experience necessary to use any of the Office programs. This includes Access. Now, the fact that most users use Excel/Word, where they should be using Access, is simply due to the fact that most people hear the word 'database', and freak. Personally, I think that is do to overly complex systems built by 'professional developers'. The fact that the entire Office Suite is both easy to use, and powerful enough to create actual applications, should be a kudos to Microsoft, not a 'hot issue' to debate between developers. Now, what I feel needs to be 'fought' for, is the acceptance of Access throughout the db development world. I get tired of listening to SQL Server and Oracle developers who think of Access as a toy, instead of a database. Just my two cents. Drew -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Charlotte Foust Sent: Thursday, March 25, 2004 12:20 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] Framework Discussion - set up question >> I'm mostly in favor of anything that makes Access more available to the average user -- it IS a desktop application after all. Are you TRYING to start a fight, Susan?!!? Most of us have been trying for years to convince Microsoft that this is NOT a desktop application, it's a tool to *build* desktop applications. Let the flames begin! Charlotte Foust -----Original Message----- From: Susan Harkins [mailto:ssharkins at bellsouth.net] Sent: Thursday, March 25, 2004 10:03 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: [AccessD] Framework Discussion - set up question No. :) I'm talking about the built-in lookup field feature that lets you display a related value from another table. Open a table in Design view and click the Lookup tab in the Properties pane. Developers soundly trash them, but I find them rather cool -- and if abused, is that Access's fault? ;) I'm mostly in favor of anything that makes Access more available to the average user -- it IS a desktop application after all. No, I don't use them, and I often have to "undo" them in Northwind when I'm using that db in an article example, but I can see why users would like and use them. Here we goooooooooooooooooooo! ;) Susan H. Susan, I've seen people joke about this before and I've just assumed I knew what they were referring to ("hard coded" delimited lists that are not stored in a table). Is this a correct assumption? -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From martyconnelly at shaw.ca Thu Mar 25 19:23:36 2004 From: martyconnelly at shaw.ca (MartyConnelly) Date: Thu, 25 Mar 2004 17:23:36 -0800 Subject: [AccessD] OT: Migration to SQL Server - sort of References: <000301c411aa$1d158a80$6401a8c0@COA3> Message-ID: <40638618.8080805@shaw.ca> Just a head's up with these types of GUID keys, they may start to become, a lot more commonly used. I was just reading a paper and methodology developed by IBM Global and the Alberta Government for implemention of privacy legislation across databases. In Canada this would address legislation like Personal Information Protection and Electronic Documents Act, also known by the awkward acronym PIPEDA, or something like HIPPA in the US, there is similar legislation in UK and EU. http://sharp.gov.ab.ca/ppa/documents/AlbertaPrivacyArchitectureOverview.pdf The method is a Privacy Taxonomy which provides a comprehensive scheme to consistently label privacy-relevant objects and actions in an IT environment with an an Identity Key Scheme based on hidden Meaningless But Unique Numbers (MBUNs) to be used over multiple databases in an organization. These MBUN's are going to be long unique keys possibly a GUID. They will map things like a SIN and Drivers license into a MBUN so tables can be accessed or aggregated without giving access to an exact individuals records. Developer wrote: >Not exactly migration, but biggest issue I've had lately with Access >FE's to SQL 2k is that Access can't deal with GUID's. You *must* make >all the queries that join on these types of fields into views because >Access can't relaibly make these joins. > > > > >-----Original Message----- >From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com >[mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Martin Reid >Sent: Wednesday, March 24, 2004 7:56 AM >To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving >Subject: Re: [AccessD] OT: Migration to SQL Server > > >Anything special you had to do in terms of SQL Server to assist in >managing the resulting databases? for example creating admin users etc > > >Martin > > > >----- Original Message ----- >From: "Mike & Doris Manning" >To: "'Access Developers discussion and problem solving'" > >Sent: Wednesday, March 24, 2004 12:27 PM >Subject: RE: [AccessD] OT: Migration to SQL Server > > > > >>Hi Martin, >> >>I migrated four different Access dbs to a single instance of SQL >>Server about a year ago and didn't encounter any problems. >> >>Doris Manning >>Database Administrator >>Hargrove Inc. >>www.hargroveinc.com >> >> >>-----Original Message----- >>From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com >>[mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Martin Reid >>Sent: Tuesday, March 23, 2004 4:58 PM >>To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving >>Subject: [AccessD] OT: Migration to SQL Server >> >> >>Anyone done any work migrating SEVERAL Access dbs to a single instance >> >> > > > >>of SQL Server?? >> >>Particulary interested in any problems this caused etc etc >> >>Maybe a pointer to things to come. I have been asked to look at >>several areas around this subject including building .NET Front Ends >>to migrated dbs. >> >>Martin >> >>-- >>_______________________________________________ >>AccessD mailing list >>AccessD at databaseadvisors.com >>http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd >>Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com >> >>-- >>_______________________________________________ >>AccessD mailing list >>AccessD at databaseadvisors.com >>http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd >>Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com >> >> >> > > > -- Marty Connelly Victoria, B.C. Canada From martyconnelly at shaw.ca Thu Mar 25 19:41:19 2004 From: martyconnelly at shaw.ca (MartyConnelly) Date: Thu, 25 Mar 2004 17:41:19 -0800 Subject: [AccessD] IP Telephony WAS Not enough space on disk References: Message-ID: <40638A3F.2080107@shaw.ca> Here is a starting point An Introduction to VoIP and VOCAL (open source project that provides call control, routing, media, policy, billing information and provisioning on a system ) http://www.oreillynet.com/pub/a/network/2002/10/11/voip.html or http://www.vovida.org/ or have a look at this UK based free VOIP phone service that works dependent on the firewall status of the client with the data stream set up either as UDP (if firewall allows) or in worse case as an outgoing TCP connection to a supernode. http://www.skype.com/ ggonzalez at cccis.com wrote: > > >John, I am currently doing some research on IP telephony to use in some of >my applications, is there any websites and or books you can recommend. > >Thanks, Gumaro > > > > "John Clark" > > .com> cc: > Sent by: Subject: Re: [AccessD] Not enough space on disk. > accessd-bounces at databasea > dvisors.com > > > 03/23/2004 12:54 PM > Please respond to Access > Developers discussion and > problem solving > > > > > >I suspected you might have Novell. I help to administer our Novell >network, along with IP telephony and Access programming, and I get asked >to increase a user's space restrictions quite often--especially when one >of our techs go to the PC and remain logged in as the user. > >Take care! > >John W Clark > > > >>>>ggonzalez at cccis.com 3/22/2004 3:05:04 PM >>> >>>> >>>> > > > > > >Yes, Novel is the NOS. It seems that is the problem. Even though I >was >trying to access local databases the security file that I use is on >the >network. when I changed the security file locally everything worked >fine, >I then requested more space on the network and all worked there also. > >Thanks to everyone for their help. > > > > > > > "John Clark" > > > > .com> cc: > > Sent by: Subject: Re: >[AccessD] Not enough space on disk. > > accessd-bounces at databasea > > dvisors.com > > > > > > 03/22/2004 12:35 PM > > Please respond to Access > > Developers discussion and > > problem solving > > > > > > > >Are you running on a network at all? If so, what NOS? > >And, if so, are you logged in as yourself, on the other PCs? > > > >>>>ggonzalez at cccis.com 3/22/2004 1:27:01 PM >>> >>>> >>>> > > > > > >I have tried rebooting and several of the options in the Microsoft >knowledge base to no avail. > >Thanks > > >|---------+------------------------------------> >| | Francisco H Tapia | >| | | >| | Sent by: | >| | accessd-bounces at databasea| >| | dvisors.com | >| | | >| | | >| | 03/22/2004 12:22 PM | >| | Please respond to Access | >| | Developers discussion and| >| | problem solving | >|---------+------------------------------------> > > > >>---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------| >> >> > > > | > >| > | To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > > | > | cc: > >| > | Subject: Re: [AccessD] Not enough space on disk. > >| > > > >>---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------| >> >> > > > > > > >try a reboot like suggested by Gary Kjos, additonally what OS is this >running on? win95/98/ME/nt/2k/xp? > > > >ggonzalez at cccis.com wrote: > > > >>I have 3 Gig and 256 of ram >> >> >> >> >> > > > >>How much hdd space is available on your C: for the computer that gets >>this error?, how much ram does it have? >> >> >>ggonzalez at cccis.com wrote: >> >> >> >> >> >>>I am gettin getting this error when I try to open a database on my >>>computer. I have plenty od disk space available though. When I go >>> >>> >to > > >>>another computer and access the same database I have no problem. >>> >>>Does anybody have any sugestions why this is happening. >>> >>>Thanks, Gumaro >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >> >> >> >> > ><>-- >-Francisco > > >-- >_______________________________________________ >AccessD mailing list >AccessD at databaseadvisors.com >http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd >Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > >-- >_______________________________________________ >AccessD mailing list >AccessD at databaseadvisors.com >http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd >Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > >-- >_______________________________________________ >AccessD mailing list >AccessD at databaseadvisors.com >http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd >Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > >-- >_______________________________________________ >AccessD mailing list >AccessD at databaseadvisors.com >http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd >Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > >-- >_______________________________________________ >AccessD mailing list >AccessD at databaseadvisors.com >http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd >Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > -- Marty Connelly Victoria, B.C. Canada From john at winhaven.net Thu Mar 25 20:08:49 2004 From: john at winhaven.net (John Bartow) Date: Thu, 25 Mar 2004 20:08:49 -0600 Subject: [AccessD] Lookup Fields in Table Design In-Reply-To: <2F8793082E00D4119A1700B0D0216BF8022279C8@main2.marlow.com> Message-ID: Drews attempt at taunting the crowd. :o) -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of DWUTKA at marlow.com Sent: Thursday, March 25, 2004 6:06 PM To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: RE: Lookup fields WAS: RE: [AccessD] Framework Discussion - set up question And where would your comment lie? Drew -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of John W. Colby Sent: Thursday, March 25, 2004 5:01 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: Lookup fields WAS: RE: [AccessD] Framework Discussion - set up question That's because I have been staying out of it. JWC -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of DWUTKA at marlow.com Sent: Thursday, March 25, 2004 5:43 PM To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: Lookup fields WAS: RE: [AccessD] Framework Discussion - set up question You know Susan, the Bounders had MUCH better arguments, and they could defend most of them too. Oh, I miss the good ol' days. Drew -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Susan Harkins Sent: Thursday, March 25, 2004 4:16 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: [AccessD] Framework Discussion - set up question I want to know why he's changing the table names? ;) Oh my gosh, what a horrible mess you might create all the way down the line -- not just with lookup fields. Susan H. Okay, for number one, let's drop that. It's a pointless argument. If you want to argue that using Lookups adds confusion, then I would REALLY hate to see your table designs. Have you ever tried to explain a many to many table to a 'user'? Trust me, they'll pick up what a 'lookup' field does a LOT faster. And if you aren't using things like many to many tables, because users could get confused, then you are not normalizing your data. See how this is a BAD argument to try to defend against? Now for number 2. You can't hack a feature with a 'feature creep' agrument. Feature creep can affect anything in a bad way, however, if you are getting paid by the hour, or are doing contract work, Feature creep means more money! LOL -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From john at winhaven.net Thu Mar 25 20:13:04 2004 From: john at winhaven.net (John Bartow) Date: Thu, 25 Mar 2004 20:13:04 -0600 Subject: [AccessD] Lookup Fields in Table Design In-Reply-To: <20040326002857.NIRL1709.imf20aec.mail.bellsouth.net@SUSANONE> Message-ID: Never say I don't have a kind heart :O) -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Susan Harkins Sent: Thursday, March 25, 2004 6:29 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: [AccessD] Framework Discussion - set up question Sympathy points -- bah! Susan H. +.5 on the corruption - I don't buy it as reason to not use lookups but +you scared me a little before I got to the end and I really have to cut the nay-sayers some slack they're so far behind here - gotta please the crowd too! :o) Score: nay-sayers 2.5 / sayer 7.5 -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From KIsmert at TexasSystems.com Thu Mar 25 20:18:36 2004 From: KIsmert at TexasSystems.com (Ken Ismert) Date: Thu, 25 Mar 2004 20:18:36 -0600 Subject: [AccessD] Framework Discussion - set up question In-Reply-To: <2F8793082E00D4119A1700B0D0216BF8022279C2@main2.marlow.com> Message-ID: <008b01c412d8$a56cbfa0$2a3ca8c0@TEXASSYSTEMS.COM> Drew > No need to do what you described. Already knew that. So you acknowledge that errors in the lookup query or the underlying lookup data will cause errors in the front end. That appears to contradict your earlier statement: "But is that going to affect anything using that .mdb as a BE? No.". My point was to show that, in three minutes, you can construct a scenario where lookups in the BE cause FE errors. My errors were contrived, admittedly, but we all know what can happen in production environments. Access is not the most robust data server, even in ideal conditions. Why add elements to your tables that could cause additional errors in production? >If you could LINK the tables in a corrupted database, >you could have also used DAO/ADO to just pull the data. For those of you willing to try my example, you would see otherwise. You just can't simply link and open a query against it. Sure, you could get fancy and write code, under pressure, to try to get your data. Drew might be eager to do that, but I'm not. You do tacitly acknowledge that it "can make recovery difficult". So, why make your life more difficult, when you can get all the benefits of lookups, with none of these drawbacks, by using them in queries? >Second, still have yet to see proof of performance degradation. >Show me proof of that before the 'no lookup' side brings it up again! Oh, very well. Since you contrived the best of all possible examples to support your 'no performance degradation' claim, I wrote some code and contrived the worst: a 200 record main table with a field lookup defined against a 200,000 record lookup table, unindexed. The results were predictable: queries against the reference table, with no lookup defined, ran lightning fast. Queries against the main table with the lookup took about 7 seconds to reach the end of the recordset on my machine. A datasheet form based on the sluggard query was even worse: the underlying query took its 7 seconds, and the form's combo took an additional 3 seconds or so, for truly lousy performance! Nothing's free, Drew. Any form, using a lookup combo, which is based on a query pointing at a table, which is doing its own lookup for that same field, is doing double work. To be fair, opening the querydefs in code produced no noticeable degradation. So did direct SQL. But completely eliminating query-based forms and reports to avoid the performance hits for table lookups is kind of cutting of your nose off despite your face, no? To end, I am NOT opposed to lookups! Just put them in queries or forms, where they more appropriately belong! -Ken -----Original Message----- From: DWUTKA at marlow.com [mailto:DWUTKA at marlow.com] Sent: Thursday, March 25, 2004 4:37 PM To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: RE: [AccessD] Framework Discussion - set up question Two things. No need to do what you described. Already knew that. First thing. AND? If you could LINK the tables in a corrupted database, you could have also used DAO/ADO to just pull the data. Both of which would have completely ignored the Lookup information. OR, you could have just made dummy tables to represent the lookup tables. Lookup doesn't care if the old data is there or not, and it will look for a local table, whether it's linked, or it's native. It also doesn't perform data integrity checks. It doesn't care if old data fits the lookup stuff or not! Now, if you said that Lookups can cause corruption, completely different story. There are a lot of things that can make recovery difficult, that doesn't mean that you shouldn't use code, ban multiple users from your database, or prevent referential integrity! Second, still have yet to see proof of performance degradation. Show me proof of that before the 'no lookup' side brings it up again! Drew -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Ken Ismert Sent: Thursday, March 25, 2004 3:54 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: [AccessD] Framework Discussion - set up question From john at winhaven.net Thu Mar 25 20:22:29 2004 From: john at winhaven.net (John Bartow) Date: Thu, 25 Mar 2004 20:22:29 -0600 Subject: [AccessD] Lookup Fields in Table Design In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Nasturtiums? I do believe they would be hard to cast! -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Charlotte Foust Sent: Thursday, March 25, 2004 6:30 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] Lookup Fields in Table Design That's because I misspelled it in my eagerness to cast nasturtiums on Drew! predilection (pred'l-ek'sh?n, pred'-) n. A partiality or disposition in favor of something; a preference. Charlotte Foust From john at winhaven.net Thu Mar 25 20:31:59 2004 From: john at winhaven.net (John Bartow) Date: Thu, 25 Mar 2004 20:31:59 -0600 Subject: [AccessD] Framework pseudo-definition In-Reply-To: Message-ID: John, Been reading these really close as I cut&paste them into Word and printed them out (sitting in the clinic/hospital waiting room the couple of days and had to have something to read other than People and Glamour). So - I'm not trying to be nit picky here or anything just need to clarify a question. If you scroll down and find the series of ??? in the text the question is there. John B. -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of John W. Colby Sent: Wednesday, March 03, 2004 9:05 PM To: AccessD Subject: [AccessD] Framework pseudo-definition Folks, I have thrown out suggestions about how I handle things "using my framework". Robert has asked me what a framework is and how to start one. Unfortunately the word Framework is used by different people for different things, so I will state my own definitions with the warning that I have no intention of arguing with anyone who doesn't like my definition. For my purposes, a framework is a skeleton. Look at a skyscraper being built on the horizon. The framework is all that steel, the elevators, the air conditioning, electrical service, water, sewage etc. ALL of that stuff is necessary regardless of whether you intend to rent one thousand square feet or one million. And once all of that stuff is in place, the rest is just sheetrock, aluminum framing, doors and windows. My framework starts with a class named dclsFW, the framework class. It is instantiated ONE time (a single instance), but inside of that class is the foundation of the rest of the system. It has "class global" variables for other "service" classes. By "class global" I mean private to the class (can only be directly manipulated by the class) but global to the class (can be seen from anywhere in THAT class). By Service classes I mean classes such as my SysVars, Zip/unzip, Encrypt/Decrypt and so forth. These are really "standalone classes", they do not require my framework at all in order to function, but by placing then in my framework class I provide them to any other part of my class. dclsFW instantiates all these service classes when dclsFW initializes, and tears them down when dclsFW terminates. dclsFW also provides property gets to allow other code to access these service classes directly. ALL classes, EVERY SINGLE ONE, have a set of common stuff at the top, a handful of private constants and variables, and init/term events. This stuff is SO common that you can literally cut and paste it from a "template class" into a new class and save that and have a new working class. The framework class dclsFW is just the foundation of the framework, it is NOT the skeleton itself. Because Access is so Form-centric I have an entire skeleton for forms and controls. Thus I have a form class named dclsFrm. This class is instantiated by any form that wants to use my framework (90% or more in my databases) in the form's OnOpen. Each form has a "form global" (dimensioned PUBLIC) variable for the dclsFrm, and instantiates it in OnOpen, then calls the init of dclsFrm passing in a pointer to itself. dclsFrm then stores that pointer to the form in a private variable in it's header. dclsFrm is the foundation of the FORM skeleton if you will, but it uses services provided by dclsFW (the framework foundation class). dclsFrm also SINKS EVERY form event. The private form variable in dclsFrm's header is dimensioned WithEvents and I then built event stubs for every single form event. The ONLY one that doesn't actually function is OnOpen and that is because the class is instantiated in the form's built-in class in OnOpen and therefore by the time dclsFrm loads OnOpen has come and gone. One implication of this is that NO FORM is lightweight since it must have its built-in class to store the pointer to my dclsFrm, and of course an OnOpen to set and initialize dclsFrm. Just as we have a class for the form, EVERY data aware control has a class which I name dclsCtlCbo, dclsCtlTxt, dclsCtlGrp etc. mostly so that all of the control classes will group together in the module window, but also because it makes it obvious that these classes are control classes. dclsFrm has a private function called from its Init() which I call FindControls (very descriptive I know). This function iterates the form's Control Collection. Remember that dclsFrm was passed a pointer to the form by the form itself as it initialized dclsFrm. As I iterate the control collection I have a large case statement that basically says: for each ctl in frm.controls select case ctl.ControlType case "textbox" 'instantiate the text box control class case "combo" 'instantiate the combo class etc end select next ctl Thus as each control is examined I discover the type of the control, I load an instance of the class for that type of control and pass in a pointer to the control. I save all of these control classes into a collection. By the time FindControls is finished I have loaded a class instance for EVERY control on the form (more or less), and each of those control class instances has a pointer to it's control. As I do in the form, I dim the control variable in each control class Withevents and build event sinks for the control events. In this case I am a little more lenient and only build event sinks for the events I actually use. I did this partly because I don't use many of the key events and mouse events (in every control) and didn't want the overhead of those event stubs being called all the time. Now this sounds like a LOT of work, and a LOT of overhead. It is a lot of work, but in fact very little overhead. It turns out that classes load the entire class ONE TIME, then only a new header section (global variables) for each additional instance of that class type. Thus if I load 10 combo class instances, only one loads completely, then just the header of the other 9. All of the code is shared... unless there are static variables in the functions which is handled appropriately such that each class instance has it's own static variables. I ran some timing awhile back on a VERY complex form with dozens of controls. What I discovered is that on an old 100 mhz Pentium of the day, the overhead was one half of one millisecond per class instance, to load each instance. Folks, that is NOTHING compared to the time to load the data for example. And of course that was a sloooooowwwwww computer compared to what we have now. So there you have it. By the time dclsFrm loads, it also loads a class for each data aware class on the form. ???????????????????????????????????????????????????????? Is the sentence abov suppose to read this way or is it supposed to be: By the time dclsFrm loads, it also loads a class for each data aware "control" on the form. ???????????????????????????????????????????????????????? The form's skeleton is built and loaded. Now that I have classes for each control and the form, and these classes sinking all the necessary events, I can add functionality to each class as desired. All of the various things you have heard me discuss in the "in my framework I do..." emails are nothing more than discovering the code required to do this stuff, then putting it out in the classes in the framework. Let's take a working example. Every data aware control may be referenced by a combo, list or subform in the SQL statement or query that loads the data into these objects. Thus a combo can be "filtered" by another combo, or by a check box, or by a text box etc. I call the object being filtered a "dependent object" because its dataset depends on some other control (or controls). In ALL of my classes for data aware controls I have a collection which I call colDepObjs. So every combo, list, textbox, checkbox etc. class has this collection. It also has a function which allows me to pass in to the class a list of controls that are dependent on that control, i.e. whose data is filtered by that control. A pointer to these controls (or their class actually) are stored in colDepObjs. Each class also has a public RequeryDepObjs method which can be called. This method... you guessed it... iterates the dependent object collection and calls the requery method of every class in the collection. Thus is 3 combos are dependent on ComboA, calling ComboA.RequeryDependentObjects causes requery ,method of the class for comboB, ComboC, and ComboD. The requery method requeries the actual control (combo or list etc) but also calls its own RequeryDependentObjects method which ... calls the Requery method of any classes in its colDepObj. In order to use this functionality, all I have to do is call a function of a class passing in pointers to the controls that are dependent on this control. Now, when ComboA AfterUpdate fires (remember I sink the events in the control classes) the AfterUpdate calls it's RequeryDependentObjects which starts the ball rolling requerying all dependent objects down the chain. One of the things that has been critical to efficiently handling all this stuff is my framework SysVar table. In my SysVar table I can turn on/off functionality for the entire framework (all forms for example) or for a specific service. As an example I have a sysvar that says "turn on the ZIP/Unzip service classes. I leave them turned off under normal circumstances. However if a specific application needs zip/unzip functionality, I can OVERRIDE the Sysvar by reading framework sysvars out of a table in the FE. Thus for that FE I can turn on/off the zip/unzip service classes, and having done so, I can now just call a property of the framework to get the zip class, call a method and zip up a file. Likewise I can turn on / off a form behavior for a specific application. I can also override form behaviors on a form by form basis so that one form has the behavior while the next does not. Doing things this way allows me to tailor the framework for a specific application, even down to tailoring it for specific forms. I hope this email has started you thinking about frameworks, how you would use them and what you would do with them. If you ever take the time to build one you will never look back. Frameworks are an awesome tool that takes an already RAD environment (Access) and allows you to plop down a skeleton on which you build your app. Imagine being able to tell the client "I can build your skyscraper in 1/10th the time because I already have the skeleton done". Just add walls and windows and move in next week. (Ok, next month). We all know that the data design is a critical piece which I have not addressed here at all, but once that part is done, building forms should be much more standardized than the way many developers do it. I am going to stop here to allow anyone to ask questions, or other developers who have their own frameworks to pipe in with "this is what I do". John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From john at winhaven.net Thu Mar 25 20:40:14 2004 From: john at winhaven.net (John Bartow) Date: Thu, 25 Mar 2004 20:40:14 -0600 Subject: [AccessD] Lookup Fields in Table Design In-Reply-To: <008b01c412d8$a56cbfa0$2a3ca8c0@TEXASSYSTEMS.COM> Message-ID: Already gave points for the corruption issue but this certainly reinforces it. To me doing everything you can to prevent corruption in an Access DB is similar to doing tape backups - chances aren't real good that it will be needed but when bad luck strikes - its worth the effort. 1 point for the second point though - and 1 point for the clever comeback line! :o) -.5 for not changing the subject line Score: nay-sayers 4 / sayers 7.5 -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Ken Ismert Sent: Thursday, March 25, 2004 8:19 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: [AccessD] Framework Discussion - set up question Drew > No need to do what you described. Already knew that. So you acknowledge that errors in the lookup query or the underlying lookup data will cause errors in the front end. That appears to contradict your earlier statement: "But is that going to affect anything using that .mdb as a BE? No.". My point was to show that, in three minutes, you can construct a scenario where lookups in the BE cause FE errors. My errors were contrived, admittedly, but we all know what can happen in production environments. Access is not the most robust data server, even in ideal conditions. Why add elements to your tables that could cause additional errors in production? >If you could LINK the tables in a corrupted database, >you could have also used DAO/ADO to just pull the data. For those of you willing to try my example, you would see otherwise. You just can't simply link and open a query against it. Sure, you could get fancy and write code, under pressure, to try to get your data. Drew might be eager to do that, but I'm not. You do tacitly acknowledge that it "can make recovery difficult". So, why make your life more difficult, when you can get all the benefits of lookups, with none of these drawbacks, by using them in queries? >Second, still have yet to see proof of performance degradation. >Show me proof of that before the 'no lookup' side brings it up again! Oh, very well. Since you contrived the best of all possible examples to support your 'no performance degradation' claim, I wrote some code and contrived the worst: a 200 record main table with a field lookup defined against a 200,000 record lookup table, unindexed. The results were predictable: queries against the reference table, with no lookup defined, ran lightning fast. Queries against the main table with the lookup took about 7 seconds to reach the end of the recordset on my machine. A datasheet form based on the sluggard query was even worse: the underlying query took its 7 seconds, and the form's combo took an additional 3 seconds or so, for truly lousy performance! Nothing's free, Drew. Any form, using a lookup combo, which is based on a query pointing at a table, which is doing its own lookup for that same field, is doing double work. To be fair, opening the querydefs in code produced no noticeable degradation. So did direct SQL. But completely eliminating query-based forms and reports to avoid the performance hits for table lookups is kind of cutting of your nose off despite your face, no? To end, I am NOT opposed to lookups! Just put them in queries or forms, where they more appropriately belong! -Ken -----Original Message----- From: DWUTKA at marlow.com [mailto:DWUTKA at marlow.com] Sent: Thursday, March 25, 2004 4:37 PM To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: RE: [AccessD] Framework Discussion - set up question Two things. No need to do what you described. Already knew that. First thing. AND? If you could LINK the tables in a corrupted database, you could have also used DAO/ADO to just pull the data. Both of which would have completely ignored the Lookup information. OR, you could have just made dummy tables to represent the lookup tables. Lookup doesn't care if the old data is there or not, and it will look for a local table, whether it's linked, or it's native. It also doesn't perform data integrity checks. It doesn't care if old data fits the lookup stuff or not! Now, if you said that Lookups can cause corruption, completely different story. There are a lot of things that can make recovery difficult, that doesn't mean that you shouldn't use code, ban multiple users from your database, or prevent referential integrity! Second, still have yet to see proof of performance degradation. Show me proof of that before the 'no lookup' side brings it up again! Drew -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Ken Ismert Sent: Thursday, March 25, 2004 3:54 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: [AccessD] Framework Discussion - set up question -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com Thu Mar 25 21:02:20 2004 From: jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com (John W. Colby) Date: Thu, 25 Mar 2004 22:02:20 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Framework pseudo-definition In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Data aware control. Good to see someone reading this with that level of concentration. BTW, each of these lectures is a word doc in the zip files on my site. John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of John Bartow Sent: Thursday, March 25, 2004 9:32 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] Framework pseudo-definition John, Been reading these really close as I cut&paste them into Word and printed them out (sitting in the clinic/hospital waiting room the couple of days and had to have something to read other than People and Glamour). So - I'm not trying to be nit picky here or anything just need to clarify a question. If you scroll down and find the series of ??? in the text the question is there. John B. -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of John W. Colby Sent: Wednesday, March 03, 2004 9:05 PM To: AccessD Subject: [AccessD] Framework pseudo-definition Folks, I have thrown out suggestions about how I handle things "using my framework". Robert has asked me what a framework is and how to start one. Unfortunately the word Framework is used by different people for different things, so I will state my own definitions with the warning that I have no intention of arguing with anyone who doesn't like my definition. For my purposes, a framework is a skeleton. Look at a skyscraper being built on the horizon. The framework is all that steel, the elevators, the air conditioning, electrical service, water, sewage etc. ALL of that stuff is necessary regardless of whether you intend to rent one thousand square feet or one million. And once all of that stuff is in place, the rest is just sheetrock, aluminum framing, doors and windows. My framework starts with a class named dclsFW, the framework class. It is instantiated ONE time (a single instance), but inside of that class is the foundation of the rest of the system. It has "class global" variables for other "service" classes. By "class global" I mean private to the class (can only be directly manipulated by the class) but global to the class (can be seen from anywhere in THAT class). By Service classes I mean classes such as my SysVars, Zip/unzip, Encrypt/Decrypt and so forth. These are really "standalone classes", they do not require my framework at all in order to function, but by placing then in my framework class I provide them to any other part of my class. dclsFW instantiates all these service classes when dclsFW initializes, and tears them down when dclsFW terminates. dclsFW also provides property gets to allow other code to access these service classes directly. ALL classes, EVERY SINGLE ONE, have a set of common stuff at the top, a handful of private constants and variables, and init/term events. This stuff is SO common that you can literally cut and paste it from a "template class" into a new class and save that and have a new working class. The framework class dclsFW is just the foundation of the framework, it is NOT the skeleton itself. Because Access is so Form-centric I have an entire skeleton for forms and controls. Thus I have a form class named dclsFrm. This class is instantiated by any form that wants to use my framework (90% or more in my databases) in the form's OnOpen. Each form has a "form global" (dimensioned PUBLIC) variable for the dclsFrm, and instantiates it in OnOpen, then calls the init of dclsFrm passing in a pointer to itself. dclsFrm then stores that pointer to the form in a private variable in it's header. dclsFrm is the foundation of the FORM skeleton if you will, but it uses services provided by dclsFW (the framework foundation class). dclsFrm also SINKS EVERY form event. The private form variable in dclsFrm's header is dimensioned WithEvents and I then built event stubs for every single form event. The ONLY one that doesn't actually function is OnOpen and that is because the class is instantiated in the form's built-in class in OnOpen and therefore by the time dclsFrm loads OnOpen has come and gone. One implication of this is that NO FORM is lightweight since it must have its built-in class to store the pointer to my dclsFrm, and of course an OnOpen to set and initialize dclsFrm. Just as we have a class for the form, EVERY data aware control has a class which I name dclsCtlCbo, dclsCtlTxt, dclsCtlGrp etc. mostly so that all of the control classes will group together in the module window, but also because it makes it obvious that these classes are control classes. dclsFrm has a private function called from its Init() which I call FindControls (very descriptive I know). This function iterates the form's Control Collection. Remember that dclsFrm was passed a pointer to the form by the form itself as it initialized dclsFrm. As I iterate the control collection I have a large case statement that basically says: for each ctl in frm.controls select case ctl.ControlType case "textbox" 'instantiate the text box control class case "combo" 'instantiate the combo class etc end select next ctl Thus as each control is examined I discover the type of the control, I load an instance of the class for that type of control and pass in a pointer to the control. I save all of these control classes into a collection. By the time FindControls is finished I have loaded a class instance for EVERY control on the form (more or less), and each of those control class instances has a pointer to it's control. As I do in the form, I dim the control variable in each control class Withevents and build event sinks for the control events. In this case I am a little more lenient and only build event sinks for the events I actually use. I did this partly because I don't use many of the key events and mouse events (in every control) and didn't want the overhead of those event stubs being called all the time. Now this sounds like a LOT of work, and a LOT of overhead. It is a lot of work, but in fact very little overhead. It turns out that classes load the entire class ONE TIME, then only a new header section (global variables) for each additional instance of that class type. Thus if I load 10 combo class instances, only one loads completely, then just the header of the other 9. All of the code is shared... unless there are static variables in the functions which is handled appropriately such that each class instance has it's own static variables. I ran some timing awhile back on a VERY complex form with dozens of controls. What I discovered is that on an old 100 mhz Pentium of the day, the overhead was one half of one millisecond per class instance, to load each instance. Folks, that is NOTHING compared to the time to load the data for example. And of course that was a sloooooowwwwww computer compared to what we have now. So there you have it. By the time dclsFrm loads, it also loads a class for each data aware class on the form. ???????????????????????????????????????????????????????? Is the sentence abov suppose to read this way or is it supposed to be: By the time dclsFrm loads, it also loads a class for each data aware "control" on the form. ???????????????????????????????????????????????????????? The form's skeleton is built and loaded. Now that I have classes for each control and the form, and these classes sinking all the necessary events, I can add functionality to each class as desired. All of the various things you have heard me discuss in the "in my framework I do..." emails are nothing more than discovering the code required to do this stuff, then putting it out in the classes in the framework. Let's take a working example. Every data aware control may be referenced by a combo, list or subform in the SQL statement or query that loads the data into these objects. Thus a combo can be "filtered" by another combo, or by a check box, or by a text box etc. I call the object being filtered a "dependent object" because its dataset depends on some other control (or controls). In ALL of my classes for data aware controls I have a collection which I call colDepObjs. So every combo, list, textbox, checkbox etc. class has this collection. It also has a function which allows me to pass in to the class a list of controls that are dependent on that control, i.e. whose data is filtered by that control. A pointer to these controls (or their class actually) are stored in colDepObjs. Each class also has a public RequeryDepObjs method which can be called. This method... you guessed it... iterates the dependent object collection and calls the requery method of every class in the collection. Thus is 3 combos are dependent on ComboA, calling ComboA.RequeryDependentObjects causes requery ,method of the class for comboB, ComboC, and ComboD. The requery method requeries the actual control (combo or list etc) but also calls its own RequeryDependentObjects method which ... calls the Requery method of any classes in its colDepObj. In order to use this functionality, all I have to do is call a function of a class passing in pointers to the controls that are dependent on this control. Now, when ComboA AfterUpdate fires (remember I sink the events in the control classes) the AfterUpdate calls it's RequeryDependentObjects which starts the ball rolling requerying all dependent objects down the chain. One of the things that has been critical to efficiently handling all this stuff is my framework SysVar table. In my SysVar table I can turn on/off functionality for the entire framework (all forms for example) or for a specific service. As an example I have a sysvar that says "turn on the ZIP/Unzip service classes. I leave them turned off under normal circumstances. However if a specific application needs zip/unzip functionality, I can OVERRIDE the Sysvar by reading framework sysvars out of a table in the FE. Thus for that FE I can turn on/off the zip/unzip service classes, and having done so, I can now just call a property of the framework to get the zip class, call a method and zip up a file. Likewise I can turn on / off a form behavior for a specific application. I can also override form behaviors on a form by form basis so that one form has the behavior while the next does not. Doing things this way allows me to tailor the framework for a specific application, even down to tailoring it for specific forms. I hope this email has started you thinking about frameworks, how you would use them and what you would do with them. If you ever take the time to build one you will never look back. Frameworks are an awesome tool that takes an already RAD environment (Access) and allows you to plop down a skeleton on which you build your app. Imagine being able to tell the client "I can build your skyscraper in 1/10th the time because I already have the skeleton done". Just add walls and windows and move in next week. (Ok, next month). We all know that the data design is a critical piece which I have not addressed here at all, but once that part is done, building forms should be much more standardized than the way many developers do it. I am going to stop here to allow anyone to ask questions, or other developers who have their own frameworks to pipe in with "this is what I do". John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From john at winhaven.net Thu Mar 25 21:22:44 2004 From: john at winhaven.net (John Bartow) Date: Thu, 25 Mar 2004 21:22:44 -0600 Subject: [AccessD] Framework pseudo-definition In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Thanks for the confirmation. And then AEIEIEE! Slap myself in the head! I thought you had said you were "going" to do that but I never checked the files as I am following it by reading only. It is a ROYAL PITA to cut them all apart and paste them into word - thanks no more of that then. The first day I printed them out I just highlighted all of the emails messages and hit print. Outlook proceeded to print about 100 pages of your dialog at the beginning with Robert and Stuart - but that was all, it just kept printing it over and over and of course I didn't check until I got to the waiting room. Lucky I had my Pocket PC synced with my outlook. Not as easy tor ead but better than Glamour ;o) Oh yeah, wrapping my mind around this stuff is cool. I think to myself sometimes that you must go into a deep trance to come up with some of it. I just find myself thinking WOW! Shamil's DEEP programming is the correct term for sure! I'm sure it builds on itself and that seems to be how you arrived where you are. Makes me wonder too, how many dead ends have you hit on this road? Thanks again, John B. -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of John W. Colby Sent: Thursday, March 25, 2004 9:02 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] Framework pseudo-definition Data aware control. Good to see someone reading this with that level of concentration. BTW, each of these lectures is a word doc in the zip files on my site. John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of John Bartow Sent: Thursday, March 25, 2004 9:32 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] Framework pseudo-definition John, Been reading these really close as I cut&paste them into Word and printed them out (sitting in the clinic/hospital waiting room the couple of days and had to have something to read other than People and Glamour). So - I'm not trying to be nit picky here or anything just need to clarify a question. If you scroll down and find the series of ??? in the text the question is there. John B. -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of John W. Colby Sent: Wednesday, March 03, 2004 9:05 PM To: AccessD Subject: [AccessD] Framework pseudo-definition Folks, I have thrown out suggestions about how I handle things "using my framework". Robert has asked me what a framework is and how to start one. Unfortunately the word Framework is used by different people for different things, so I will state my own definitions with the warning that I have no intention of arguing with anyone who doesn't like my definition. For my purposes, a framework is a skeleton. Look at a skyscraper being built on the horizon. The framework is all that steel, the elevators, the air conditioning, electrical service, water, sewage etc. ALL of that stuff is necessary regardless of whether you intend to rent one thousand square feet or one million. And once all of that stuff is in place, the rest is just sheetrock, aluminum framing, doors and windows. My framework starts with a class named dclsFW, the framework class. It is instantiated ONE time (a single instance), but inside of that class is the foundation of the rest of the system. It has "class global" variables for other "service" classes. By "class global" I mean private to the class (can only be directly manipulated by the class) but global to the class (can be seen from anywhere in THAT class). By Service classes I mean classes such as my SysVars, Zip/unzip, Encrypt/Decrypt and so forth. These are really "standalone classes", they do not require my framework at all in order to function, but by placing then in my framework class I provide them to any other part of my class. dclsFW instantiates all these service classes when dclsFW initializes, and tears them down when dclsFW terminates. dclsFW also provides property gets to allow other code to access these service classes directly. ALL classes, EVERY SINGLE ONE, have a set of common stuff at the top, a handful of private constants and variables, and init/term events. This stuff is SO common that you can literally cut and paste it from a "template class" into a new class and save that and have a new working class. The framework class dclsFW is just the foundation of the framework, it is NOT the skeleton itself. Because Access is so Form-centric I have an entire skeleton for forms and controls. Thus I have a form class named dclsFrm. This class is instantiated by any form that wants to use my framework (90% or more in my databases) in the form's OnOpen. Each form has a "form global" (dimensioned PUBLIC) variable for the dclsFrm, and instantiates it in OnOpen, then calls the init of dclsFrm passing in a pointer to itself. dclsFrm then stores that pointer to the form in a private variable in it's header. dclsFrm is the foundation of the FORM skeleton if you will, but it uses services provided by dclsFW (the framework foundation class). dclsFrm also SINKS EVERY form event. The private form variable in dclsFrm's header is dimensioned WithEvents and I then built event stubs for every single form event. The ONLY one that doesn't actually function is OnOpen and that is because the class is instantiated in the form's built-in class in OnOpen and therefore by the time dclsFrm loads OnOpen has come and gone. One implication of this is that NO FORM is lightweight since it must have its built-in class to store the pointer to my dclsFrm, and of course an OnOpen to set and initialize dclsFrm. Just as we have a class for the form, EVERY data aware control has a class which I name dclsCtlCbo, dclsCtlTxt, dclsCtlGrp etc. mostly so that all of the control classes will group together in the module window, but also because it makes it obvious that these classes are control classes. dclsFrm has a private function called from its Init() which I call FindControls (very descriptive I know). This function iterates the form's Control Collection. Remember that dclsFrm was passed a pointer to the form by the form itself as it initialized dclsFrm. As I iterate the control collection I have a large case statement that basically says: for each ctl in frm.controls select case ctl.ControlType case "textbox" 'instantiate the text box control class case "combo" 'instantiate the combo class etc end select next ctl Thus as each control is examined I discover the type of the control, I load an instance of the class for that type of control and pass in a pointer to the control. I save all of these control classes into a collection. By the time FindControls is finished I have loaded a class instance for EVERY control on the form (more or less), and each of those control class instances has a pointer to it's control. As I do in the form, I dim the control variable in each control class Withevents and build event sinks for the control events. In this case I am a little more lenient and only build event sinks for the events I actually use. I did this partly because I don't use many of the key events and mouse events (in every control) and didn't want the overhead of those event stubs being called all the time. Now this sounds like a LOT of work, and a LOT of overhead. It is a lot of work, but in fact very little overhead. It turns out that classes load the entire class ONE TIME, then only a new header section (global variables) for each additional instance of that class type. Thus if I load 10 combo class instances, only one loads completely, then just the header of the other 9. All of the code is shared... unless there are static variables in the functions which is handled appropriately such that each class instance has it's own static variables. I ran some timing awhile back on a VERY complex form with dozens of controls. What I discovered is that on an old 100 mhz Pentium of the day, the overhead was one half of one millisecond per class instance, to load each instance. Folks, that is NOTHING compared to the time to load the data for example. And of course that was a sloooooowwwwww computer compared to what we have now. So there you have it. By the time dclsFrm loads, it also loads a class for each data aware class on the form. ???????????????????????????????????????????????????????? Is the sentence abov suppose to read this way or is it supposed to be: By the time dclsFrm loads, it also loads a class for each data aware "control" on the form. ???????????????????????????????????????????????????????? The form's skeleton is built and loaded. Now that I have classes for each control and the form, and these classes sinking all the necessary events, I can add functionality to each class as desired. All of the various things you have heard me discuss in the "in my framework I do..." emails are nothing more than discovering the code required to do this stuff, then putting it out in the classes in the framework. Let's take a working example. Every data aware control may be referenced by a combo, list or subform in the SQL statement or query that loads the data into these objects. Thus a combo can be "filtered" by another combo, or by a check box, or by a text box etc. I call the object being filtered a "dependent object" because its dataset depends on some other control (or controls). In ALL of my classes for data aware controls I have a collection which I call colDepObjs. So every combo, list, textbox, checkbox etc. class has this collection. It also has a function which allows me to pass in to the class a list of controls that are dependent on that control, i.e. whose data is filtered by that control. A pointer to these controls (or their class actually) are stored in colDepObjs. Each class also has a public RequeryDepObjs method which can be called. This method... you guessed it... iterates the dependent object collection and calls the requery method of every class in the collection. Thus is 3 combos are dependent on ComboA, calling ComboA.RequeryDependentObjects causes requery ,method of the class for comboB, ComboC, and ComboD. The requery method requeries the actual control (combo or list etc) but also calls its own RequeryDependentObjects method which ... calls the Requery method of any classes in its colDepObj. In order to use this functionality, all I have to do is call a function of a class passing in pointers to the controls that are dependent on this control. Now, when ComboA AfterUpdate fires (remember I sink the events in the control classes) the AfterUpdate calls it's RequeryDependentObjects which starts the ball rolling requerying all dependent objects down the chain. One of the things that has been critical to efficiently handling all this stuff is my framework SysVar table. In my SysVar table I can turn on/off functionality for the entire framework (all forms for example) or for a specific service. As an example I have a sysvar that says "turn on the ZIP/Unzip service classes. I leave them turned off under normal circumstances. However if a specific application needs zip/unzip functionality, I can OVERRIDE the Sysvar by reading framework sysvars out of a table in the FE. Thus for that FE I can turn on/off the zip/unzip service classes, and having done so, I can now just call a property of the framework to get the zip class, call a method and zip up a file. Likewise I can turn on / off a form behavior for a specific application. I can also override form behaviors on a form by form basis so that one form has the behavior while the next does not. Doing things this way allows me to tailor the framework for a specific application, even down to tailoring it for specific forms. I hope this email has started you thinking about frameworks, how you would use them and what you would do with them. If you ever take the time to build one you will never look back. Frameworks are an awesome tool that takes an already RAD environment (Access) and allows you to plop down a skeleton on which you build your app. Imagine being able to tell the client "I can build your skyscraper in 1/10th the time because I already have the skeleton done". Just add walls and windows and move in next week. (Ok, next month). We all know that the data design is a critical piece which I have not addressed here at all, but once that part is done, building forms should be much more standardized than the way many developers do it. I am going to stop here to allow anyone to ask questions, or other developers who have their own frameworks to pipe in with "this is what I do". John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com Thu Mar 25 22:01:05 2004 From: jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com (John W. Colby) Date: Thu, 25 Mar 2004 23:01:05 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Framework pseudo-definition In-Reply-To: Message-ID: I hope you're waiting in hospitals isn't something bad happening in your life! >Oh yeah, wrapping my mind around this stuff is cool. I think to myself sometimes that you must go into a deep trance to come up with some of it. I just find myself thinking WOW! In fact most of it just comes bit by bit, piece by piece. As you absorb one thing that allows the next piece to fall into place and slowly over a loooong time (at least for me) you make significant progress. I think the sequence in my case was Withevents (thanks again Shamil), which required classes. Classes then allowed me to start encapsulating systems, which led to control classes and a form class, which led to the control scanner. Additionally I found several very handy service classes ready built by other giants of our community including Zip/Unzip and FTP, as well as MD5 encryption, etc. Many options to turn on then led to SysVars which allowed me to start / stop service classes, turn on/off options generally and make choices of behaviors, which led to overrides in the FE. All of the above then led to a base Framework class to co-ordinate the whole thing. One of the "arguments" against doing this was that "I spend so much time building the system itself". In a sense this is true, it has been a significant development effort over many years, and in fact my V2 framework was a couple of months work in the evenings to port my non Withevent/Class V1 framework to Withevents / classes. You really can't use a framework until a certain amount of it is finished - the form class, the control classes (though they can be added as needed) and then a base amount of functionality within these classes. After that it just snowballs. Having a class for combos, whenever you find a common combo behavior you now have a place to go to add that behavior. >From that time on it is just there for the next time. And so forth. I tend to design the behaviors out in the form class because it simplifies getting it working, troubleshooting etc. Once it does what I want I just cut and paste to the control or form class as necessary. Because the form class sinks (or can sink) all form events and the control class can sink all control events, the code usually really is just a cut and paste, use find and replace within that small set of code to replace form ME! references with mfrm! references and it just goes. After living with this stuff for years it is just inconceivable to me to not do this. The closest anyone (that is speaking up) comes to this is Jurgen with his function calls directly from the event properties. While the net result may be fairly similar the implementation and the degree of effort at the application level is not. I do not have to worry about always going somewhere to get a control or form with all these function calls programmed in. In fact if I did it that way I would very soon write a wizard to set these properties for me! Anyway... I truly do understand that this stuff is not something absorbed overnight. One of the reasons I decided to write this lecture series was to provide working examples and code to allow anyone interested to see that while the finished system is indeed reasonably complex, because we are using classes to encapsulate components, the whole breaks down into smaller pieces that can be understood fairly easily. My hope is that the years it took me to puzzle this stuff out can be compressed into months with a little help from someone like myself that has already learned it. Withevents is soooo easy if you have a few simple examples. Classes are likewise easy with simple examples. Learn those two pieces and the "foundation" is laid. Whether you are building a beach cottage or a casino in Atlantic City, you first have to understand foundations. John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of John Bartow Sent: Thursday, March 25, 2004 10:23 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] Framework pseudo-definition Thanks for the confirmation. And then AEIEIEE! Slap myself in the head! I thought you had said you were "going" to do that but I never checked the files as I am following it by reading only. It is a ROYAL PITA to cut them all apart and paste them into word - thanks no more of that then. The first day I printed them out I just highlighted all of the emails messages and hit print. Outlook proceeded to print about 100 pages of your dialog at the beginning with Robert and Stuart - but that was all, it just kept printing it over and over and of course I didn't check until I got to the waiting room. Lucky I had my Pocket PC synced with my outlook. Not as easy tor ead but better than Glamour ;o) Oh yeah, wrapping my mind around this stuff is cool. I think to myself sometimes that you must go into a deep trance to come up with some of it. I just find myself thinking WOW! Shamil's DEEP programming is the correct term for sure! I'm sure it builds on itself and that seems to be how you arrived where you are. Makes me wonder too, how many dead ends have you hit on this road? Thanks again, John B. -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of John W. Colby Sent: Thursday, March 25, 2004 9:02 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] Framework pseudo-definition Data aware control. Good to see someone reading this with that level of concentration. BTW, each of these lectures is a word doc in the zip files on my site. John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of John Bartow Sent: Thursday, March 25, 2004 9:32 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] Framework pseudo-definition John, Been reading these really close as I cut&paste them into Word and printed them out (sitting in the clinic/hospital waiting room the couple of days and had to have something to read other than People and Glamour). So - I'm not trying to be nit picky here or anything just need to clarify a question. If you scroll down and find the series of ??? in the text the question is there. John B. -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of John W. Colby Sent: Wednesday, March 03, 2004 9:05 PM To: AccessD Subject: [AccessD] Framework pseudo-definition Folks, I have thrown out suggestions about how I handle things "using my framework". Robert has asked me what a framework is and how to start one. Unfortunately the word Framework is used by different people for different things, so I will state my own definitions with the warning that I have no intention of arguing with anyone who doesn't like my definition. For my purposes, a framework is a skeleton. Look at a skyscraper being built on the horizon. The framework is all that steel, the elevators, the air conditioning, electrical service, water, sewage etc. ALL of that stuff is necessary regardless of whether you intend to rent one thousand square feet or one million. And once all of that stuff is in place, the rest is just sheetrock, aluminum framing, doors and windows. My framework starts with a class named dclsFW, the framework class. It is instantiated ONE time (a single instance), but inside of that class is the foundation of the rest of the system. It has "class global" variables for other "service" classes. By "class global" I mean private to the class (can only be directly manipulated by the class) but global to the class (can be seen from anywhere in THAT class). By Service classes I mean classes such as my SysVars, Zip/unzip, Encrypt/Decrypt and so forth. These are really "standalone classes", they do not require my framework at all in order to function, but by placing then in my framework class I provide them to any other part of my class. dclsFW instantiates all these service classes when dclsFW initializes, and tears them down when dclsFW terminates. dclsFW also provides property gets to allow other code to access these service classes directly. ALL classes, EVERY SINGLE ONE, have a set of common stuff at the top, a handful of private constants and variables, and init/term events. This stuff is SO common that you can literally cut and paste it from a "template class" into a new class and save that and have a new working class. The framework class dclsFW is just the foundation of the framework, it is NOT the skeleton itself. Because Access is so Form-centric I have an entire skeleton for forms and controls. Thus I have a form class named dclsFrm. This class is instantiated by any form that wants to use my framework (90% or more in my databases) in the form's OnOpen. Each form has a "form global" (dimensioned PUBLIC) variable for the dclsFrm, and instantiates it in OnOpen, then calls the init of dclsFrm passing in a pointer to itself. dclsFrm then stores that pointer to the form in a private variable in it's header. dclsFrm is the foundation of the FORM skeleton if you will, but it uses services provided by dclsFW (the framework foundation class). dclsFrm also SINKS EVERY form event. The private form variable in dclsFrm's header is dimensioned WithEvents and I then built event stubs for every single form event. The ONLY one that doesn't actually function is OnOpen and that is because the class is instantiated in the form's built-in class in OnOpen and therefore by the time dclsFrm loads OnOpen has come and gone. One implication of this is that NO FORM is lightweight since it must have its built-in class to store the pointer to my dclsFrm, and of course an OnOpen to set and initialize dclsFrm. Just as we have a class for the form, EVERY data aware control has a class which I name dclsCtlCbo, dclsCtlTxt, dclsCtlGrp etc. mostly so that all of the control classes will group together in the module window, but also because it makes it obvious that these classes are control classes. dclsFrm has a private function called from its Init() which I call FindControls (very descriptive I know). This function iterates the form's Control Collection. Remember that dclsFrm was passed a pointer to the form by the form itself as it initialized dclsFrm. As I iterate the control collection I have a large case statement that basically says: for each ctl in frm.controls select case ctl.ControlType case "textbox" 'instantiate the text box control class case "combo" 'instantiate the combo class etc end select next ctl Thus as each control is examined I discover the type of the control, I load an instance of the class for that type of control and pass in a pointer to the control. I save all of these control classes into a collection. By the time FindControls is finished I have loaded a class instance for EVERY control on the form (more or less), and each of those control class instances has a pointer to it's control. As I do in the form, I dim the control variable in each control class Withevents and build event sinks for the control events. In this case I am a little more lenient and only build event sinks for the events I actually use. I did this partly because I don't use many of the key events and mouse events (in every control) and didn't want the overhead of those event stubs being called all the time. Now this sounds like a LOT of work, and a LOT of overhead. It is a lot of work, but in fact very little overhead. It turns out that classes load the entire class ONE TIME, then only a new header section (global variables) for each additional instance of that class type. Thus if I load 10 combo class instances, only one loads completely, then just the header of the other 9. All of the code is shared... unless there are static variables in the functions which is handled appropriately such that each class instance has it's own static variables. I ran some timing awhile back on a VERY complex form with dozens of controls. What I discovered is that on an old 100 mhz Pentium of the day, the overhead was one half of one millisecond per class instance, to load each instance. Folks, that is NOTHING compared to the time to load the data for example. And of course that was a sloooooowwwwww computer compared to what we have now. So there you have it. By the time dclsFrm loads, it also loads a class for each data aware class on the form. ???????????????????????????????????????????????????????? Is the sentence abov suppose to read this way or is it supposed to be: By the time dclsFrm loads, it also loads a class for each data aware "control" on the form. ???????????????????????????????????????????????????????? The form's skeleton is built and loaded. Now that I have classes for each control and the form, and these classes sinking all the necessary events, I can add functionality to each class as desired. All of the various things you have heard me discuss in the "in my framework I do..." emails are nothing more than discovering the code required to do this stuff, then putting it out in the classes in the framework. Let's take a working example. Every data aware control may be referenced by a combo, list or subform in the SQL statement or query that loads the data into these objects. Thus a combo can be "filtered" by another combo, or by a check box, or by a text box etc. I call the object being filtered a "dependent object" because its dataset depends on some other control (or controls). In ALL of my classes for data aware controls I have a collection which I call colDepObjs. So every combo, list, textbox, checkbox etc. class has this collection. It also has a function which allows me to pass in to the class a list of controls that are dependent on that control, i.e. whose data is filtered by that control. A pointer to these controls (or their class actually) are stored in colDepObjs. Each class also has a public RequeryDepObjs method which can be called. This method... you guessed it... iterates the dependent object collection and calls the requery method of every class in the collection. Thus is 3 combos are dependent on ComboA, calling ComboA.RequeryDependentObjects causes requery ,method of the class for comboB, ComboC, and ComboD. The requery method requeries the actual control (combo or list etc) but also calls its own RequeryDependentObjects method which ... calls the Requery method of any classes in its colDepObj. In order to use this functionality, all I have to do is call a function of a class passing in pointers to the controls that are dependent on this control. Now, when ComboA AfterUpdate fires (remember I sink the events in the control classes) the AfterUpdate calls it's RequeryDependentObjects which starts the ball rolling requerying all dependent objects down the chain. One of the things that has been critical to efficiently handling all this stuff is my framework SysVar table. In my SysVar table I can turn on/off functionality for the entire framework (all forms for example) or for a specific service. As an example I have a sysvar that says "turn on the ZIP/Unzip service classes. I leave them turned off under normal circumstances. However if a specific application needs zip/unzip functionality, I can OVERRIDE the Sysvar by reading framework sysvars out of a table in the FE. Thus for that FE I can turn on/off the zip/unzip service classes, and having done so, I can now just call a property of the framework to get the zip class, call a method and zip up a file. Likewise I can turn on / off a form behavior for a specific application. I can also override form behaviors on a form by form basis so that one form has the behavior while the next does not. Doing things this way allows me to tailor the framework for a specific application, even down to tailoring it for specific forms. I hope this email has started you thinking about frameworks, how you would use them and what you would do with them. If you ever take the time to build one you will never look back. Frameworks are an awesome tool that takes an already RAD environment (Access) and allows you to plop down a skeleton on which you build your app. Imagine being able to tell the client "I can build your skyscraper in 1/10th the time because I already have the skeleton done". Just add walls and windows and move in next week. (Ok, next month). We all know that the data design is a critical piece which I have not addressed here at all, but once that part is done, building forms should be much more standardized than the way many developers do it. I am going to stop here to allow anyone to ask questions, or other developers who have their own frameworks to pipe in with "this is what I do". John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From DWUTKA at marlow.com Fri Mar 26 01:12:29 2004 From: DWUTKA at marlow.com (DWUTKA at marlow.com) Date: Fri, 26 Mar 2004 01:12:29 -0600 Subject: [AccessD] Framework Discussion - set up question Message-ID: <2F8793082E00D4119A1700B0D0216BF8022279CC@main2.marlow.com> Ken, can you send me your 'sample' database, where you see the performance degradation. Not that I don't believe you, but I have done everything you said, and have see NO degradation. I want to make sure we are on the same page before this gets uglier. As to stuff that is already ugly, I still don't understand your point with errors in the Front End. Practically ANYTHING in Access can produce an error for you, if done WRONG. So saying 'I'm not going to do something, because if it's done wrong, then I'll get errors', is basically saying you'll never do anything! As for the corruption issue, yes, I would definitely try using code to recover data, if possible. There's nothing complex about it. Looping through a recordset is one of the basic coding techniques! Drew -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Sent: 3/25/04 8:18 PM Subject: RE: [AccessD] Framework Discussion - set up question Drew > No need to do what you described. Already knew that. So you acknowledge that errors in the lookup query or the underlying lookup data will cause errors in the front end. That appears to contradict your earlier statement: "But is that going to affect anything using that .mdb as a BE? No.". My point was to show that, in three minutes, you can construct a scenario where lookups in the BE cause FE errors. My errors were contrived, admittedly, but we all know what can happen in production environments. Access is not the most robust data server, even in ideal conditions. Why add elements to your tables that could cause additional errors in production? >If you could LINK the tables in a corrupted database, >you could have also used DAO/ADO to just pull the data. For those of you willing to try my example, you would see otherwise. You just can't simply link and open a query against it. Sure, you could get fancy and write code, under pressure, to try to get your data. Drew might be eager to do that, but I'm not. You do tacitly acknowledge that it "can make recovery difficult". So, why make your life more difficult, when you can get all the benefits of lookups, with none of these drawbacks, by using them in queries? >Second, still have yet to see proof of performance degradation. >Show me proof of that before the 'no lookup' side brings it up again! Oh, very well. Since you contrived the best of all possible examples to support your 'no performance degradation' claim, I wrote some code and contrived the worst: a 200 record main table with a field lookup defined against a 200,000 record lookup table, unindexed. The results were predictable: queries against the reference table, with no lookup defined, ran lightning fast. Queries against the main table with the lookup took about 7 seconds to reach the end of the recordset on my machine. A datasheet form based on the sluggard query was even worse: the underlying query took its 7 seconds, and the form's combo took an additional 3 seconds or so, for truly lousy performance! Nothing's free, Drew. Any form, using a lookup combo, which is based on a query pointing at a table, which is doing its own lookup for that same field, is doing double work. To be fair, opening the querydefs in code produced no noticeable degradation. So did direct SQL. But completely eliminating query-based forms and reports to avoid the performance hits for table lookups is kind of cutting of your nose off despite your face, no? To end, I am NOT opposed to lookups! Just put them in queries or forms, where they more appropriately belong! -Ken -----Original Message----- From: DWUTKA at marlow.com [mailto:DWUTKA at marlow.com] Sent: Thursday, March 25, 2004 4:37 PM To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: RE: [AccessD] Framework Discussion - set up question Two things. No need to do what you described. Already knew that. First thing. AND? If you could LINK the tables in a corrupted database, you could have also used DAO/ADO to just pull the data. Both of which would have completely ignored the Lookup information. OR, you could have just made dummy tables to represent the lookup tables. Lookup doesn't care if the old data is there or not, and it will look for a local table, whether it's linked, or it's native. It also doesn't perform data integrity checks. It doesn't care if old data fits the lookup stuff or not! Now, if you said that Lookups can cause corruption, completely different story. There are a lot of things that can make recovery difficult, that doesn't mean that you shouldn't use code, ban multiple users from your database, or prevent referential integrity! Second, still have yet to see proof of performance degradation. Show me proof of that before the 'no lookup' side brings it up again! Drew -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Ken Ismert Sent: Thursday, March 25, 2004 3:54 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: [AccessD] Framework Discussion - set up question -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From DWUTKA at marlow.com Fri Mar 26 01:16:40 2004 From: DWUTKA at marlow.com (DWUTKA at marlow.com) Date: Fri, 26 Mar 2004 01:16:40 -0600 Subject: [AccessD] Lookup Fields in Table Design Message-ID: <2F8793082E00D4119A1700B0D0216BF8022279CD@main2.marlow.com> John, the points are cute, but the problem is that Lookup fields do NOT cause corruption. He said they made it more difficult to fix. There are a TON of things (that everyone uses) that make repairing corruption more difficult. Essentially, if you make a blank database, and put it on CD, you stand the best chances of recovering that database when it's completely blank, and never used. Once you start adding data, code, objecs, etc, you are adding things which can complicate a recovery. So it's a no pointer / moot point, to say that lookup's made a particular recovery difficult. If there had been a bit of error handling code, which got in the way of recovering a database, would you say 'I'll never use Error Handling code, because it made my life difficult once'? I didn't think so. Drew -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Sent: 3/25/04 8:40 PM Subject: RE: [AccessD] Lookup Fields in Table Design Already gave points for the corruption issue but this certainly reinforces it. To me doing everything you can to prevent corruption in an Access DB is similar to doing tape backups - chances aren't real good that it will be needed but when bad luck strikes - its worth the effort. 1 point for the second point though - and 1 point for the clever comeback line! :o) -.5 for not changing the subject line Score: nay-sayers 4 / sayers 7.5 -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Ken Ismert Sent: Thursday, March 25, 2004 8:19 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: [AccessD] Framework Discussion - set up question Drew > No need to do what you described. Already knew that. So you acknowledge that errors in the lookup query or the underlying lookup data will cause errors in the front end. That appears to contradict your earlier statement: "But is that going to affect anything using that .mdb as a BE? No.". My point was to show that, in three minutes, you can construct a scenario where lookups in the BE cause FE errors. My errors were contrived, admittedly, but we all know what can happen in production environments. Access is not the most robust data server, even in ideal conditions. Why add elements to your tables that could cause additional errors in production? >If you could LINK the tables in a corrupted database, >you could have also used DAO/ADO to just pull the data. For those of you willing to try my example, you would see otherwise. You just can't simply link and open a query against it. Sure, you could get fancy and write code, under pressure, to try to get your data. Drew might be eager to do that, but I'm not. You do tacitly acknowledge that it "can make recovery difficult". So, why make your life more difficult, when you can get all the benefits of lookups, with none of these drawbacks, by using them in queries? >Second, still have yet to see proof of performance degradation. >Show me proof of that before the 'no lookup' side brings it up again! Oh, very well. Since you contrived the best of all possible examples to support your 'no performance degradation' claim, I wrote some code and contrived the worst: a 200 record main table with a field lookup defined against a 200,000 record lookup table, unindexed. The results were predictable: queries against the reference table, with no lookup defined, ran lightning fast. Queries against the main table with the lookup took about 7 seconds to reach the end of the recordset on my machine. A datasheet form based on the sluggard query was even worse: the underlying query took its 7 seconds, and the form's combo took an additional 3 seconds or so, for truly lousy performance! Nothing's free, Drew. Any form, using a lookup combo, which is based on a query pointing at a table, which is doing its own lookup for that same field, is doing double work. To be fair, opening the querydefs in code produced no noticeable degradation. So did direct SQL. But completely eliminating query-based forms and reports to avoid the performance hits for table lookups is kind of cutting of your nose off despite your face, no? To end, I am NOT opposed to lookups! Just put them in queries or forms, where they more appropriately belong! -Ken -----Original Message----- From: DWUTKA at marlow.com [mailto:DWUTKA at marlow.com] Sent: Thursday, March 25, 2004 4:37 PM To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: RE: [AccessD] Framework Discussion - set up question Two things. No need to do what you described. Already knew that. First thing. AND? If you could LINK the tables in a corrupted database, you could have also used DAO/ADO to just pull the data. Both of which would have completely ignored the Lookup information. OR, you could have just made dummy tables to represent the lookup tables. Lookup doesn't care if the old data is there or not, and it will look for a local table, whether it's linked, or it's native. It also doesn't perform data integrity checks. It doesn't care if old data fits the lookup stuff or not! Now, if you said that Lookups can cause corruption, completely different story. There are a lot of things that can make recovery difficult, that doesn't mean that you shouldn't use code, ban multiple users from your database, or prevent referential integrity! Second, still have yet to see proof of performance degradation. Show me proof of that before the 'no lookup' side brings it up again! Drew -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Ken Ismert Sent: Thursday, March 25, 2004 3:54 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: [AccessD] Framework Discussion - set up question -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From my.lists at verizon.net Fri Mar 26 01:35:56 2004 From: my.lists at verizon.net (Francisco H Tapia) Date: Thu, 25 Mar 2004 23:35:56 -0800 Subject: [AccessD] Framework Discussion - set up question In-Reply-To: <2F8793082E00D4119A1700B0D0216BF8022279BE@main2.marlow.com> References: <2F8793082E00D4119A1700B0D0216BF8022279BE@main2.marlow.com> Message-ID: <4063DD5C.7070906@verizon.net> DWUTKA at marlow.com said the following on 3/25/2004 1:58 PM: > Okay, for number one, let's drop that. It's a pointless argument. If you > want to argue that using Lookups adds confusion, then I would REALLY hate to > see your table designs. Have you ever tried to explain a many to many table > to a 'user'? Trust me, they'll pick up what a 'lookup' field does a LOT > faster. And if you aren't using things like many to many tables, because > users could get confused, then you are not normalizing your data. See how > this is a BAD argument to try to defend against? I'll ask this because you brought it up, but how is my comment any indication of any lack of normalization on my database design? I'll tell you... it has NO BEARING on my database design. I don't care when a user is confused about database design. I don't explain to my users about lookup tables, that's not my job. I also don't try to explain Boyce-Codd 3rd Normal form. These are very dry and pointless topics to bring up w/ your users... I also don't particularly approve of allowing end users to write their own ad-hoc queries for that matter.. this is because they can join something so badly that it causes unnecessary page locks and system performance overall. If you do, then to each their own. Where I'm working at now, it has been now long accepted that certain users will write their own queries... that has all stopped w/ our recent upgrade to SqlServer2000. I've blocked all direct access to tables and many views. all they are allowed to do is run sprocs (Stored Procedures). So what? why should I expalin the concept of a temporary table to my end users? or how to use a server sided cursor? hmm? I don't care what confuses them about database design. It would be diffrent if they were underlings and I had to make sure they were up to speed so they could take over the project... they are not.. they are users of my and my co-worker's database system. That's not to say I don't appreciate or even give out helpful tips for those that are learing.. but I won't have them break down a system I'm responsible for. Lastly... I DO work on a plethora of databases.. and on occasion I do take in contract work (tho not lately). Adding Lookup tables adds a level of non-sense imnsho. Sure they're great if I only worked on a handful of db's. And it's not like I can't figure out what the previous developer did... you see... there is a bit of un-needed confusion.... > Now for number 2. You can't hack a feature with a 'feature creep' agrument. > Feature creep can affect anything in a bad way, however, if you are getting > paid by the hour, or are doing contract work, Feature creep means more > money! LOL well to each their own I guess :| -- -Francisco From my.lists at verizon.net Fri Mar 26 01:36:42 2004 From: my.lists at verizon.net (Francisco H Tapia) Date: Thu, 25 Mar 2004 23:36:42 -0800 Subject: [AccessD] Framework Discussion - set up question In-Reply-To: <20040325221619.UXAT17649.imf25aec.mail.bellsouth.net@SUSANONE> References: <20040325221619.UXAT17649.imf25aec.mail.bellsouth.net@SUSANONE> Message-ID: <4063DD8A.80308@verizon.net> Susan Harkins said the following on 3/25/2004 2:16 PM: > I want to know why he's changing the table names? ;) Oh my gosh, what a > horrible mess you might create all the way down the line -- not just with > lookup fields. who's changing names? -- -Francisco From gustav at cactus.dk Fri Mar 26 03:30:55 2004 From: gustav at cactus.dk (Gustav Brock) Date: Fri, 26 Mar 2004 10:30:55 +0100 Subject: [AccessD] OT: Migration to SQL Server - sort of In-Reply-To: <40638618.8080805@shaw.ca> References: <000301c411aa$1d158a80$6401a8c0@COA3> <40638618.8080805@shaw.ca> Message-ID: <1626260251.20040326103055@cactus.dk> Hi Marty Interesting article - recommended reading for those getting in touch with "information islands". /gustav > Just a head's up with these types of GUID keys, they may start to > become, a lot more commonly used. > I was just reading a paper and methodology developed by IBM Global and > the Alberta Government for implemention of privacy legislation across > databases. > In Canada this would address legislation like Personal Information > Protection and Electronic Documents Act, also known by the awkward > acronym PIPEDA, or something like HIPPA in the US, there is similar > legislation in UK and EU. > http://sharp.gov.ab.ca/ppa/documents/AlbertaPrivacyArchitectureOverview.pdf > The method is a Privacy Taxonomy which provides a comprehensive scheme > to consistently label privacy-relevant objects and actions in an IT environment > with an an Identity Key Scheme based on hidden Meaningless But Unique > Numbers (MBUNs) to be used over multiple databases in an organization. > These MBUN's are going to be long unique keys possibly a GUID. > They will map things like a SIN and Drivers license into a MBUN so > tables can be accessed or aggregated without giving access to an exact > individuals records. >>Not exactly migration, but biggest issue I've had lately with Access >>FE's to SQL 2k is that Access can't deal with GUID's. You *must* make >>all the queries that join on these types of fields into views because >>Access can't relaibly make these joins. From gustav at cactus.dk Fri Mar 26 03:53:32 2004 From: gustav at cactus.dk (Gustav Brock) Date: Fri, 26 Mar 2004 10:53:32 +0100 Subject: [AccessD] I wrote a program, about a year ago, and it contains two unbound reports. Each of these reports has In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <1597617052.20040326105332@cactus.dk> Hi John It has been said that using DCount("*", ...) is slightly faster than counting a specific field. I haven't run any tests on this to confirm it but with 83 lookups it could be worth testing. /gustav > I wrote a program, about a year ago, and it contains two unbound > reports. Each of these reports has 83 calculated (i.e. statistical) > fields on them--they are actually pretty identical with exception that > one is a quarterly and the other is a cumulative calculation. > The calculations are mostly similar, for example: > =DCount("[xAge]","qryOver60-Cumulative","[XAge] >= 60") > =DCount("[xAge]","qryOver60-SC-Cumulative","[XAge] >= 60 And > [fndCSE] = True And [logLowInc] = True") > =DCount("[Legal]","qryPartIII-SC","[Legal] = True") > The database (the main table anyhow) has just shy of 7000 records in > it. And it seems like all of the sudden, it is taking quite a bit longer > for the reports to come up and longer to print once they do. I went in > to look at something else today and noticed this. I asked them, if it > seemed slower--I thought maybe it was me--and they agreed. > Did I do something wrong in setting this up? Should I have made 83 > queries instead? Is it the DCount function (I remember hearing something > on aggregate functions be slow once--maybe)? > This is an A2K program--my first one (I only have about 10 or so A97s > out there). > There not complaining yet, but I might be, if I were them, so I would > like to head it off, if I can. The state came in their office and they, > "were very impressed with [the] program," which is another reason I'd > like to keep on it--maybe they'd be interested further. > Thanks for any advise you can give me! > Gotta go to a meeting--see y'all! > John W Clark From ssharkins at bellsouth.net Fri Mar 26 08:00:29 2004 From: ssharkins at bellsouth.net (Susan Harkins) Date: Fri, 26 Mar 2004 09:00:29 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Framework Discussion - set up question In-Reply-To: <4063DD8A.80308@verizon.net> Message-ID: <20040326140024.VIXD1709.imf20aec.mail.bellsouth.net@SUSANONE> I don't remember. ;) Someone mentioned changing the names of linked tables as a means of screwing things up if the original tables had lookups. Susan H. Susan Harkins said the following on 3/25/2004 2:16 PM: > I want to know why he's changing the table names? ;) Oh my gosh, what > a horrible mess you might create all the way down the line -- not just > with lookup fields. who's changing names? From Mark.Mitsules at ngc.com Fri Mar 26 09:00:29 2004 From: Mark.Mitsules at ngc.com (Mitsules, Mark S. (Newport News)) Date: Fri, 26 Mar 2004 10:00:29 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] A2K2: Hook into Exchange Address Book Message-ID: I work for a sizable company (~18,000?). We utilize an exchange field called alias to hold the userID of employees. What is the most efficient method of validating data entry against a linked exchange address book? As a test I tried running a simple query, 4 fields, with my last name set as the criteria. It was unacceptably slow, verging on the assumption that Access had "locked-up". A ctrl+break stopped the loop but the query had actually returned the single record. How can I speed this up? TIA, Mark From paul.hartland at fsmail.net Fri Mar 26 09:55:43 2004 From: paul.hartland at fsmail.net (paul.hartland at fsmail.net) Date: Fri, 26 Mar 2004 16:55:43 +0100 (CET) Subject: [AccessD] Access & Word Documents Message-ID: <4867326.1080316543038.JavaMail.www@wwinf3006> To all, We currently have an Access Database one part of which contains Employee records. We also have several Word document templates (i.e. Holiday & Sickness forms etc). What we would like to be able to do is insert the employees name and address etc into the Word templates. How would I go about putting the employees address directly into the word document at a specific point. Has anyone any samples that I may view etc. Thanks in advance for all your help. Paul Hartland Freeserve AnyTime - HALF PRICE for the first 3 months - Save ?7.50 a month www.freeserve.com/anytime From Bryan_Carbonnell at cbc.ca Fri Mar 26 10:03:42 2004 From: Bryan_Carbonnell at cbc.ca (Bryan Carbonnell) Date: Fri, 26 Mar 2004 11:03:42 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Access & Word Documents Message-ID: Paul, The July 2002 issue of DBAs M2M has a couple of articles dealing with using Word and Access together. http://www.databaseadvisors.com/newsletters.htm In the interest of full disclosure, I wrote those articles. Bryan Carbonnell bryan_carbonnell at cbc.ca >>> paul.hartland at fsmail.net 26-Mar-04 10:55:43 AM >>> To all, We currently have an Access Database one part of which contains Employee records. We also have several Word document templates (i.e. Holiday & Sickness forms etc). What we would like to be able to do is insert the employees name and address etc into the Word templates. How would I go about putting the employees address directly into the word document at a specific point. Has anyone any samples that I may view etc. Thanks in advance for all your help. From cfoust at infostatsystems.com Fri Mar 26 10:14:47 2004 From: cfoust at infostatsystems.com (Charlotte Foust) Date: Fri, 26 Mar 2004 08:14:47 -0800 Subject: [AccessD] Lookup Fields in Table Design Message-ID: Yes, but they do less damage than aspersions. Charlotte Foust -----Original Message----- From: John Bartow [mailto:john at winhaven.net] Sent: Thursday, March 25, 2004 6:22 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] Lookup Fields in Table Design Nasturtiums? I do believe they would be hard to cast! -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Charlotte Foust Sent: Thursday, March 25, 2004 6:30 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] Lookup Fields in Table Design That's because I misspelled it in my eagerness to cast nasturtiums on Drew! predilection (pred'l-ek'sh?n, pred'-) n. A partiality or disposition in favor of something; a preference. Charlotte Foust -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From DWUTKA at marlow.com Fri Mar 26 10:38:32 2004 From: DWUTKA at marlow.com (DWUTKA at marlow.com) Date: Fri, 26 Mar 2004 10:38:32 -0600 Subject: Lookup Fields: Was: RE: [AccessD] Fr@mework Discussion - set up q uestion Message-ID: <2F8793082E00D4119A1700B0D0216BF8022279CE@main2.marlow.com> Actually agree with you on the user issue. A well designed data structure is usually worse then greek to an end user. It wasn't your comment I was talking about though. Let me ask you a question though, because you and I have agreed on a lot of other things before, so I'm a little shocked on your position on this. If you have an Address table, (for US clients....for this example), and you want to get the two letter state abbreviation, do you simply give them a textbox, or do you give them a combo that builds itself from a 'State' table? I go with the state table. And since I may have multiple forms based on that table, I usually use a Lookup field, so that when I build the form, that combo is predefined. Drew -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Francisco H Tapia Sent: Friday, March 26, 2004 1:36 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Framework Discussion - set up question DWUTKA at marlow.com said the following on 3/25/2004 1:58 PM: > Okay, for number one, let's drop that. It's a pointless argument. If you > want to argue that using Lookups adds confusion, then I would REALLY hate to > see your table designs. Have you ever tried to explain a many to many table > to a 'user'? Trust me, they'll pick up what a 'lookup' field does a LOT > faster. And if you aren't using things like many to many tables, because > users could get confused, then you are not normalizing your data. See how > this is a BAD argument to try to defend against? I'll ask this because you brought it up, but how is my comment any indication of any lack of normalization on my database design? I'll tell you... it has NO BEARING on my database design. I don't care when a user is confused about database design. I don't explain to my users about lookup tables, that's not my job. I also don't try to explain Boyce-Codd 3rd Normal form. These are very dry and pointless topics to bring up w/ your users... I also don't particularly approve of allowing end users to write their own ad-hoc queries for that matter.. this is because they can join something so badly that it causes unnecessary page locks and system performance overall. If you do, then to each their own. Where I'm working at now, it has been now long accepted that certain users will write their own queries... that has all stopped w/ our recent upgrade to SqlServer2000. I've blocked all direct access to tables and many views. all they are allowed to do is run sprocs (Stored Procedures). So what? why should I expalin the concept of a temporary table to my end users? or how to use a server sided cursor? hmm? I don't care what confuses them about database design. It would be diffrent if they were underlings and I had to make sure they were up to speed so they could take over the project... they are not.. they are users of my and my co-worker's database system. That's not to say I don't appreciate or even give out helpful tips for those that are learing.. but I won't have them break down a system I'm responsible for. Lastly... I DO work on a plethora of databases.. and on occasion I do take in contract work (tho not lately). Adding Lookup tables adds a level of non-sense imnsho. Sure they're great if I only worked on a handful of db's. And it's not like I can't figure out what the previous developer did... you see... there is a bit of un-needed confusion.... > Now for number 2. You can't hack a feature with a 'feature creep' agrument. > Feature creep can affect anything in a bad way, however, if you are getting > paid by the hour, or are doing contract work, Feature creep means more > money! LOL well to each their own I guess :| -- -Francisco -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From john at winhaven.net Fri Mar 26 10:38:56 2004 From: john at winhaven.net (John Bartow) Date: Fri, 26 Mar 2004 10:38:56 -0600 Subject: [AccessD] Lookup Fields in Table Design In-Reply-To: <2F8793082E00D4119A1700B0D0216BF8022279CD@main2.marlow.com> Message-ID: Hi Drew, Don't misunderstand me, your points are well taken, and you have my utmost respect as a developer/programmer. Corruption is just a hot spot on my psyche. If I knew HOW it was caused it would be different and that's the issue - apparently no one (including M$) does or they would prevent it. Even when considering that M$ allows some things to happen/not happen as a bone thrown to its third party developers, no one has a corruption fixing utility that works and is making money off of. "Data goes into black box - gets corrupted - data doesn't come out of black box." That's actually my biggest concern with Access. The absolute (publicly) undocumented proprietary nature of it. Sometimes I think the (publicly) can be left out of the statement. I'm actually quite surprised by the results of this little debate. Ken, Charlotte, Dev, Lebans and others all warn against it. I think the question I posed here to Susan concerning lookups originally came to mind about 5 years ago when I saw it on Dev's website under the "ten rules". I don't follow "rules" - when I see the word "rule" my mind automatically translates it to "strong guideline", but it made me curious. Like I said I don't generally use lookups, I have, and I will if the situation calls for them again. -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of DWUTKA at marlow.com Sent: Friday, March 26, 2004 1:17 AM To: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com; accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: RE: [AccessD] Lookup Fields in Table Design John, the points are cute, but the problem is that Lookup fields do NOT cause corruption. He said they made it more difficult to fix. There are a TON of things (that everyone uses) that make repairing corruption more difficult. Essentially, if you make a blank database, and put it on CD, you stand the best chances of recovering that database when it's completely blank, and never used. Once you start adding data, code, objecs, etc, you are adding things which can complicate a recovery. So it's a no pointer / moot point, to say that lookup's made a particular recovery difficult. If there had been a bit of error handling code, which got in the way of recovering a database, would you say 'I'll never use Error Handling code, because it made my life difficult once'? I didn't think so. Drew From john at winhaven.net Fri Mar 26 10:38:56 2004 From: john at winhaven.net (John Bartow) Date: Fri, 26 Mar 2004 10:38:56 -0600 Subject: [AccessD] Lookup Fields in Table Design In-Reply-To: <2F8793082E00D4119A1700B0D0216BF8022279CD@main2.marlow.com> Message-ID: Here are "The Evils of Lookup Fields in Tables" from Dev's website: A Lookup field in a table displays the looked-up value. For instance, if a user opens a table datasheet and sees a column of company names, what is in the table is, in fact, a numeric CompanyID, and the table is linked with a select statement to the company table by that ID. Any query that uses that lookup field to sort by that company name won't work. Nor will a query that uses a company name in that field as a criteria. If a user creates a combobox to select the company using a value list, the data in the table can be over-written. Another relationship is created which then creates another set of indexes when a Lookup field is created, thus bloating the database unnecessarily. If a combobox based on the lookup is used in a form, and a filter is applied, the persistent filter effect of Access often saves the filter and the next time the form is opened, there will be a prompt for the value (which cannot be provided, thus creating an error). Reports based on the lookup field need a combobox to display the data, causing them to run more slowly. The underlying recordsource can also be modified to include the table, however the index, (unless it was set up within a proper relationship) may not be optimized. Lookup fields mask what is really happening, and hide good relational methodology from the user. The database cannot be properly upsized to, or queried by, another engine (without removing all the lookup fields) because no other engines use or understand them. If security is implemented, permissions to tables is usually denied, and RWOP queries are used for data access. There will often be errors that there are no permissions on a specific table that isn't even being used in a query (because the lookup field is). If the queries are nested or complex, it can take some time to track down the lookup that's causing the error (that is, if it occurs to you). http://www.mvps.org/access/tencommandments.htm From DWUTKA at marlow.com Fri Mar 26 10:41:26 2004 From: DWUTKA at marlow.com (DWUTKA at marlow.com) Date: Fri, 26 Mar 2004 10:41:26 -0600 Subject: Access is a Real Database WAS:RE: [AccessD] Fr@mework Discussion - set up question Message-ID: <2F8793082E00D4119A1700B0D0216BF8022279CF@main2.marlow.com> Ugh, know the feeling. I must admit, what I dispise more then comments like that, lately, are marketers who don't have a clue of how the web works (I'm not talking technical, just the Internet mindset), who then want to take a well designed site, and complicate it beyond belief! UGH! Drew -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Jim Lawrence (AccessD) Sent: Thursday, March 25, 2004 7:11 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] Framework Discussion - set up question Hi Drew: ...and expanding on your comments. Just today, I was told by an Oracle guru that the 'Access toy' could not connect to Oracle let alone connect to two separate Oracle DBs. Then when he was shown that it did he said that some inline code must have been added because Access was not capable of it. It is difficult to deal with that mindset... Jim -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of DWUTKA at marlow.com Sent: Thursday, March 25, 2004 11:45 AM To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: RE: [AccessD] Framework Discussion - set up question I have to agree with Susan on this. Yes, it is a tool to build desktop applications. However, so is Word, Excel, and even Outlook for that matter. VBA is a POWERFUL tool, and can quite frankly do anything it wants too, to a Windows OS. However, The Office Suite was ALSO meant to be a tool for the average user. No coding experience necessary to use any of the Office programs. This includes Access. Now, the fact that most users use Excel/Word, where they should be using Access, is simply due to the fact that most people hear the word 'database', and freak. Personally, I think that is do to overly complex systems built by 'professional developers'. The fact that the entire Office Suite is both easy to use, and powerful enough to create actual applications, should be a kudos to Microsoft, not a 'hot issue' to debate between developers. Now, what I feel needs to be 'fought' for, is the acceptance of Access throughout the db development world. I get tired of listening to SQL Server and Oracle developers who think of Access as a toy, instead of a database. Just my two cents. Drew -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Charlotte Foust Sent: Thursday, March 25, 2004 12:20 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] Framework Discussion - set up question >> I'm mostly in favor of anything that makes Access more available to the average user -- it IS a desktop application after all. Are you TRYING to start a fight, Susan?!!? Most of us have been trying for years to convince Microsoft that this is NOT a desktop application, it's a tool to *build* desktop applications. Let the flames begin! Charlotte Foust -----Original Message----- From: Susan Harkins [mailto:ssharkins at bellsouth.net] Sent: Thursday, March 25, 2004 10:03 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: [AccessD] Framework Discussion - set up question No. :) I'm talking about the built-in lookup field feature that lets you display a related value from another table. Open a table in Design view and click the Lookup tab in the Properties pane. Developers soundly trash them, but I find them rather cool -- and if abused, is that Access's fault? ;) I'm mostly in favor of anything that makes Access more available to the average user -- it IS a desktop application after all. No, I don't use them, and I often have to "undo" them in Northwind when I'm using that db in an article example, but I can see why users would like and use them. Here we goooooooooooooooooooo! ;) Susan H. Susan, I've seen people joke about this before and I've just assumed I knew what they were referring to ("hard coded" delimited lists that are not stored in a table). Is this a correct assumption? -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From DWUTKA at marlow.com Fri Mar 26 10:45:37 2004 From: DWUTKA at marlow.com (DWUTKA at marlow.com) Date: Fri, 26 Mar 2004 10:45:37 -0600 Subject: [AccessD] Framework Discussion - set up question Message-ID: <2F8793082E00D4119A1700B0D0216BF8022279D0@main2.marlow.com> Ken, still waiting on your example database. Everything I have tested shows that Lookup fields are NOT used until they are entered, with the exception of a brief check if the referenced tables/querries exist. Drew -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Ken Ismert Sent: Thursday, March 25, 2004 8:19 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: [AccessD] Framework Discussion - set up question From john at winhaven.net Fri Mar 26 10:48:21 2004 From: john at winhaven.net (John Bartow) Date: Fri, 26 Mar 2004 10:48:21 -0600 Subject: [AccessD] Framework pseudo-definition In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Brenda woke up at 3AM dizzy and half of her head was numb. It went away soon but I took her in to get it checked out. A lot of tests but so far no cause for it has been found... I hope you're waiting in hospitals isn't something bad happening in your life! From my.lists at verizon.net Fri Mar 26 11:02:27 2004 From: my.lists at verizon.net (Francisco H Tapia) Date: Fri, 26 Mar 2004 09:02:27 -0800 Subject: Lookup Fields: Was: RE: [AccessD] Fr@mework Discussion - set up q uestion In-Reply-To: <2F8793082E00D4119A1700B0D0216BF8022279CE@main2.marlow.com> References: <2F8793082E00D4119A1700B0D0216BF8022279CE@main2.marlow.com> Message-ID: <40646223.6030705@verizon.net> DWUTKA at marlow.com said the following on 3/26/2004 8:38 AM: >Let me ask you a question though, because you and I have agreed on a lot of >other things before, so I'm a little shocked on your position on this. If >you have an Address table, (for US clients....for this example), and you >want to get the two letter state abbreviation, do you simply give them a >textbox, or do you give them a combo that builds itself from a 'State' >table? I go with the state table. And since I may have multiple forms >based on that table, I usually use a Lookup field, so that when I build the >form, that combo is predefined. > > This particular example is kind of bad (for me), because I try to create one form for one purpose, thus the data entry screen for addresses is done on one form, thus end users use the same form to add/edit addresses that require the combobox that points to a table of states. So yes, that's a lookup on the "FORM" not the base table. That has no point... so I have one need for the state combobox.. why build it at the table level? and I encourage for my users to type in the zipcode first so they don't usually search for states... :) -- -Francisco From caa at highway.com.br Fri Mar 26 11:04:17 2004 From: caa at highway.com.br (Carlos Alberto Alves) Date: Fri, 26 Mar 2004 14:04:17 -0300 Subject: [AccessD] Dir Size Routine In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On Tue, 23 Mar 2004 16:37:28 -0500, Mitsules, Mark S. (Newport News) wrote: > Thank you Marty...I can use this. Supports network drives as well:) > > -----Original Message----- > From: MartyConnelly [mailto:martyconnelly at shaw.ca] > Sent: Tuesday, March 23, 2004 3:48 PM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: Re: [AccessD] Dir Size Routine > > > I use this free utility I-Disk No docs but intuiative .I believe it > gives a printed report. > http://downloads-zdnet.com.com/3000-2248-10188280.html?tag=lst-0-8 > > Arthur Fuller wrote: > >> Anybody got a routine to walk the dir tree from a spefied location and >> report the accumulated size of all files in the given dir (+subdir), at >> each level? >> >> I.e. >> >> ? DirSize( "d:\docs" ) >> >> d:\docs 1gb >> d:\docs\a .3gb >> d:\docs\b .5gb >> d:\docs\b\1 .2gb >> >> TIA, >> Arthur >> >> >> > Have you tried to shell "DIR /A" yet??? ;-) -- ****************************** * Carlos Alberto Alves * * Child Neurologist * * Systems Analyst/Programmer * * Rio de Janeiro, Brazil * * mailto:caa at highway.com.br * ****************************** From john at winhaven.net Fri Mar 26 11:07:10 2004 From: john at winhaven.net (John Bartow) Date: Fri, 26 Mar 2004 11:07:10 -0600 Subject: [AccessD] Lookup Fields in Table Design In-Reply-To: Message-ID: What, are you doing word of the day or something? ;o) After those last two words it shows how bad Goggle's dictionary is. Back to Webster! -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Charlotte Foust Sent: Friday, March 26, 2004 10:15 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] Lookup Fields in Table Design Yes, but they do less damage than aspersions. Charlotte Foust -----Original Message----- From: John Bartow [mailto:john at winhaven.net] Sent: Thursday, March 25, 2004 6:22 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] Lookup Fields in Table Design Nasturtiums? I do believe they would be hard to cast! -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Charlotte Foust Sent: Thursday, March 25, 2004 6:30 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] Lookup Fields in Table Design That's because I misspelled it in my eagerness to cast nasturtiums on Drew! predilection (pred'l-ek'sh?n, pred'-) n. A partiality or disposition in favor of something; a preference. Charlotte Foust -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From gustav at cactus.dk Fri Mar 26 11:04:10 2004 From: gustav at cactus.dk (Gustav Brock) Date: Fri, 26 Mar 2004 18:04:10 +0100 Subject: [AccessD] Lookup Fields in Table Design In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <19233455246.20040326180410@cactus.dk> Hi all lookuppers Maybe I'm dense but - as mentioned by Ken - if you really need the feature of lookup fields (and I did once for some superuser administrative tasks performed once a year or never, thus not justifying design of eight forms) you simply - in a separate frontend database - create some queries retrieving exactly the fields you need (which excludes the ID), readable aliases for the fields, and lookups as needed. Then everybody is happy. You avoid fiddling with the table design and you can easily redesign the queries if and when needed and you take advantage of a feature of Access which can be handy. And this discussion becomes moot (isn't that the wording for such a situation you use "over there"?) /gustav > Here are "The Evils of Lookup Fields in Tables" from Dev's website: > A Lookup field in a table displays the looked-up value. For instance, if a > user opens a table datasheet and sees a column of company names, what is in > the table is, in fact, a numeric CompanyID, and the table is linked with a > select statement to the company table by that ID. > Any query that uses that lookup field to sort by that company name won't > work. Nor will a query that uses a company name in that field as a criteria. > If a user creates a combobox to select the company using a value list, the > data in the table can be over-written. > Another relationship is created which then creates another set of indexes > when a Lookup field is created, thus bloating the database unnecessarily. > If a combobox based on the lookup is used in a form, and a filter is > applied, the persistent filter effect of Access often saves the filter and > the next time the form is opened, there will be a prompt for the value > (which cannot be provided, thus creating an error). > Reports based on the lookup field need a combobox to display the data, > causing them to run more slowly. The underlying recordsource can also be > modified to include the table, however the index, (unless it was set up > within a proper relationship) may not be optimized. > Lookup fields mask what is really happening, and hide good relational > methodology from the user. > The database cannot be properly upsized to, or queried by, another engine > (without removing all the lookup fields) because no other engines use or > understand them. > If security is implemented, permissions to tables is usually denied, and > RWOP queries are used for data access. There will often be errors that there > are no permissions on a specific table that isn't even being used in a query > (because the lookup field is). If the queries are nested or complex, it can > take some time to track down the lookup that's causing the error (that is, > if it occurs to you). > http://www.mvps.org/access/tencommandments.htm From cfoust at infostatsystems.com Fri Mar 26 11:39:12 2004 From: cfoust at infostatsystems.com (Charlotte Foust) Date: Fri, 26 Mar 2004 09:39:12 -0800 Subject: [AccessD] Lookup Fields in Table Design Message-ID: There is also the issue of TableID limits, which I believe include all the tables involved as lookups. Charlotte Foust -----Original Message----- From: Gustav Brock [mailto:gustav at cactus.dk] Sent: Friday, March 26, 2004 9:04 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Lookup Fields in Table Design Hi all lookuppers Maybe I'm dense but - as mentioned by Ken - if you really need the feature of lookup fields (and I did once for some superuser administrative tasks performed once a year or never, thus not justifying design of eight forms) you simply - in a separate frontend database - create some queries retrieving exactly the fields you need (which excludes the ID), readable aliases for the fields, and lookups as needed. Then everybody is happy. You avoid fiddling with the table design and you can easily redesign the queries if and when needed and you take advantage of a feature of Access which can be handy. And this discussion becomes moot (isn't that the wording for such a situation you use "over there"?) /gustav > Here are "The Evils of Lookup Fields in Tables" from Dev's website: > A Lookup field in a table displays the looked-up value. For instance, > if a user opens a table datasheet and sees a column of company names, > what is in the table is, in fact, a numeric CompanyID, and the table > is linked with a select statement to the company table by that ID. > Any query that uses that lookup field to sort by that company name > won't work. Nor will a query that uses a company name in that field as > a criteria. If a user creates a combobox to select the company using a > value list, the data in the table can be over-written. > Another relationship is created which then creates another set of > indexes when a Lookup field is created, thus bloating the database > unnecessarily. > If a combobox based on the lookup is used in a form, and a filter is > applied, the persistent filter effect of Access often saves the filter > and the next time the form is opened, there will be a prompt for the > value (which cannot be provided, thus creating an error). > Reports based on the lookup field need a combobox to display the data, > causing them to run more slowly. The underlying recordsource can also > be modified to include the table, however the index, (unless it was > set up within a proper relationship) may not be optimized. > Lookup fields mask what is really happening, and hide good relational > methodology from the user. > The database cannot be properly upsized to, or queried by, another > engine (without removing all the lookup fields) because no other > engines use or understand them. > If security is implemented, permissions to tables is usually denied, > and RWOP queries are used for data access. There will often be errors > that there are no permissions on a specific table that isn't even > being used in a query (because the lookup field is). If the queries > are nested or complex, it can take some time to track down the lookup > that's causing the error (that is, if it occurs to you). > http://www.mvps.org/access/tencommandments.htm -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From cfoust at infostatsystems.com Fri Mar 26 11:40:32 2004 From: cfoust at infostatsystems.com (Charlotte Foust) Date: Fri, 26 Mar 2004 09:40:32 -0800 Subject: [AccessD] Framework Discussion - set up question Message-ID: Isn't that a bit strident, Drew? Ken will get you an example when he gets it to you. Either be polite or go to your corner. Charlotte Foust -----Original Message----- From: DWUTKA at marlow.com [mailto:DWUTKA at marlow.com] Sent: Friday, March 26, 2004 8:46 AM To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: RE: [AccessD] Framework Discussion - set up question Ken, still waiting on your example database. Everything I have tested shows that Lookup fields are NOT used until they are entered, with the exception of a brief check if the referenced tables/querries exist. Drew -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Ken Ismert Sent: Thursday, March 25, 2004 8:19 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: [AccessD] Framework Discussion - set up question -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From john at winhaven.net Fri Mar 26 11:54:36 2004 From: john at winhaven.net (John Bartow) Date: Fri, 26 Mar 2004 11:54:36 -0600 Subject: [AccessD] Lookup Fields in Table Design In-Reply-To: <19233455246.20040326180410@cactus.dk> Message-ID: Hi Gustav: "moot" would be the correct word - if it really applied ;o) I actually do things the way you describe. But I do it based on other developers advice that I never really questioned before. I believe the discussion is: why not (use the lookups property)? For instance, when I did use it on a particular project where it fit the need it did make form design quicker and easier (once I adjusted to it). It makes placing combo boxes (in my case to lookup a foreign key) very simple. Just drag the control out and forget about it. A one step process. Being suspicious that it would cause problems later I went back to how I had done it previously. The 2 or 3 extra steps when placing a combo box really isn't adding a lot of overhead to my overall development time. But it does beg the question: why not? John B. -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Gustav Brock Sent: Friday, March 26, 2004 11:04 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Lookup Fields in Table Design Hi all lookuppers Maybe I'm dense but - as mentioned by Ken - if you really need the feature of lookup fields (and I did once for some superuser administrative tasks performed once a year or never, thus not justifying design of eight forms) you simply - in a separate frontend database - create some queries retrieving exactly the fields you need (which excludes the ID), readable aliases for the fields, and lookups as needed. Then everybody is happy. You avoid fiddling with the table design and you can easily redesign the queries if and when needed and you take advantage of a feature of Access which can be handy. And this discussion becomes moot (isn't that the wording for such a situation you use "over there"?) /gustav > Here are "The Evils of Lookup Fields in Tables" from Dev's website: > A Lookup field in a table displays the looked-up value. For instance, if a > user opens a table datasheet and sees a column of company names, what is in > the table is, in fact, a numeric CompanyID, and the table is linked with a > select statement to the company table by that ID. > Any query that uses that lookup field to sort by that company name won't > work. Nor will a query that uses a company name in that field as a criteria. > If a user creates a combobox to select the company using a value list, the > data in the table can be over-written. > Another relationship is created which then creates another set of indexes > when a Lookup field is created, thus bloating the database unnecessarily. > If a combobox based on the lookup is used in a form, and a filter is > applied, the persistent filter effect of Access often saves the filter and > the next time the form is opened, there will be a prompt for the value > (which cannot be provided, thus creating an error). > Reports based on the lookup field need a combobox to display the data, > causing them to run more slowly. The underlying recordsource can also be > modified to include the table, however the index, (unless it was set up > within a proper relationship) may not be optimized. > Lookup fields mask what is really happening, and hide good relational > methodology from the user. > The database cannot be properly upsized to, or queried by, another engine > (without removing all the lookup fields) because no other engines use or > understand them. > If security is implemented, permissions to tables is usually denied, and > RWOP queries are used for data access. There will often be errors that there > are no permissions on a specific table that isn't even being used in a query > (because the lookup field is). If the queries are nested or complex, it can > take some time to track down the lookup that's causing the error (that is, > if it occurs to you). > http://www.mvps.org/access/tencommandments.htm -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From john at winhaven.net Fri Mar 26 12:00:15 2004 From: john at winhaven.net (John Bartow) Date: Fri, 26 Mar 2004 12:00:15 -0600 Subject: [AccessD] Lookup Fields in Table Design In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Here's a stretch but... For people that like to use the added form designing capabilites of the lookup property, once the table design and realtionships are complete you could set the desired lookup properties. Design all of the forms for the application. When the application design is complete you could run code that iterates the table collection and eliminates all lookup properties in the table design. This in essence would eliminate the corruption and performance issues. Eh? -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Charlotte Foust Sent: Friday, March 26, 2004 11:39 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] Lookup Fields in Table Design There is also the issue of TableID limits, which I believe include all the tables involved as lookups. Charlotte Foust From cfoust at infostatsystems.com Fri Mar 26 12:18:36 2004 From: cfoust at infostatsystems.com (Charlotte Foust) Date: Fri, 26 Mar 2004 10:18:36 -0800 Subject: [AccessD] Lookup Fields in Table Design Message-ID: John, You are NOT getting into the spirit of this discussion. Reasonableness has no place here! Charlotte Foust -----Original Message----- From: John Bartow [mailto:john at winhaven.net] Sent: Friday, March 26, 2004 10:00 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] Lookup Fields in Table Design Here's a stretch but... For people that like to use the added form designing capabilites of the lookup property, once the table design and realtionships are complete you could set the desired lookup properties. Design all of the forms for the application. When the application design is complete you could run code that iterates the table collection and eliminates all lookup properties in the table design. This in essence would eliminate the corruption and performance issues. Eh? -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Charlotte Foust Sent: Friday, March 26, 2004 11:39 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] Lookup Fields in Table Design There is also the issue of TableID limits, which I believe include all the tables involved as lookups. Charlotte Foust -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From gustav at cactus.dk Fri Mar 26 12:45:05 2004 From: gustav at cactus.dk (Gustav Brock) Date: Fri, 26 Mar 2004 19:45:05 +0100 Subject: [AccessD] Lookup Fields in Table Design In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <19339509551.20040326194505@cactus.dk> Hi John > I believe the discussion is: why not (use the lookups property)? In that case I can't tell; I've just never felt the need as form design for my part never is "very simple" and I always use queries as recordsource for forms and combos. For me tables are tables. However, if anyone find lookups in tables of value, feel free - but I don't think I'll join the party. As I told, I've used them once (in queries) only) - that's all. /gustav From john at winhaven.net Fri Mar 26 12:50:21 2004 From: john at winhaven.net (John Bartow) Date: Fri, 26 Mar 2004 12:50:21 -0600 Subject: [AccessD] Lookup Fields in Table Design In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Charlotte, You'll find that most people are more strongly opinionated than I am (on many issues). While I may jest about starting flame wars, I really don't enjoy seeing people argue. However, I do enjoy seeing people debate an issue. Especially a group with as intelligent and capable people as we have here. There are many lists where one gets chastised for not conforming to the group mentality (most generally the "bully" of the group's mentality)- I don't stick around those lists very long - not because I can't take getting chastised but because there is really not much one can learn from people who think they have all of the answers for all eternity! And there is certainly little opportunity for me to "help" anyone in that situation. I do try to give back what I can on any list I am on (including directing people to this list). I question the status quo. I listen to all sides of an issue (and there are usually more than two sides). I make a decision. I recommend things based on informed decisions. I accept that not everyone is going to take my recommendations. I revisit my decisions on a regular basis to see if there are compelling reasons to change them. I believe this is why I am a very good "consultant". John PS: We'll just leave my capabilities as a "programmer" out of it! ;o) -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Charlotte Foust Sent: Friday, March 26, 2004 12:19 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] Lookup Fields in Table Design John, You are NOT getting into the spirit of this discussion. Reasonableness has no place here! Charlotte Foust -----Original Message----- From: John Bartow [mailto:john at winhaven.net] Sent: Friday, March 26, 2004 10:00 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] Lookup Fields in Table Design Here's a stretch but... For people that like to use the added form designing capabilites of the lookup property, once the table design and realtionships are complete you could set the desired lookup properties. Design all of the forms for the application. When the application design is complete you could run code that iterates the table collection and eliminates all lookup properties in the table design. This in essence would eliminate the corruption and performance issues. Eh? -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Charlotte Foust Sent: Friday, March 26, 2004 11:39 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] Lookup Fields in Table Design There is also the issue of TableID limits, which I believe include all the tables involved as lookups. Charlotte Foust -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From cfoust at infostatsystems.com Fri Mar 26 13:26:29 2004 From: cfoust at infostatsystems.com (Charlotte Foust) Date: Fri, 26 Mar 2004 11:26:29 -0800 Subject: [AccessD] Lookup Fields in Table Design Message-ID: >>most generally the "bully" of the group's mentality Are you talking about Drew?? Charlotte Foust -----Original Message----- From: John Bartow [mailto:john at winhaven.net] Sent: Friday, March 26, 2004 10:50 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] Lookup Fields in Table Design Charlotte, You'll find that most people are more strongly opinionated than I am (on many issues). While I may jest about starting flame wars, I really don't enjoy seeing people argue. However, I do enjoy seeing people debate an issue. Especially a group with as intelligent and capable people as we have here. There are many lists where one gets chastised for not conforming to the group mentality (most generally the "bully" of the group's mentality)- I don't stick around those lists very long - not because I can't take getting chastised but because there is really not much one can learn from people who think they have all of the answers for all eternity! And there is certainly little opportunity for me to "help" anyone in that situation. I do try to give back what I can on any list I am on (including directing people to this list). I question the status quo. I listen to all sides of an issue (and there are usually more than two sides). I make a decision. I recommend things based on informed decisions. I accept that not everyone is going to take my recommendations. I revisit my decisions on a regular basis to see if there are compelling reasons to change them. I believe this is why I am a very good "consultant". John PS: We'll just leave my capabilities as a "programmer" out of it! ;o) -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Charlotte Foust Sent: Friday, March 26, 2004 12:19 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] Lookup Fields in Table Design John, You are NOT getting into the spirit of this discussion. Reasonableness has no place here! Charlotte Foust -----Original Message----- From: John Bartow [mailto:john at winhaven.net] Sent: Friday, March 26, 2004 10:00 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] Lookup Fields in Table Design Here's a stretch but... For people that like to use the added form designing capabilites of the lookup property, once the table design and realtionships are complete you could set the desired lookup properties. Design all of the forms for the application. When the application design is complete you could run code that iterates the table collection and eliminates all lookup properties in the table design. This in essence would eliminate the corruption and performance issues. Eh? -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Charlotte Foust Sent: Friday, March 26, 2004 11:39 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] Lookup Fields in Table Design There is also the issue of TableID limits, which I believe include all the tables involved as lookups. Charlotte Foust -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From DWUTKA at marlow.com Fri Mar 26 13:27:58 2004 From: DWUTKA at marlow.com (DWUTKA at marlow.com) Date: Fri, 26 Mar 2004 13:27:58 -0600 Subject: [AccessD] Lookup Fields in Table Design Message-ID: <2F8793082E00D4119A1700B0D0216BF8022279D1@main2.marlow.com> I'm shocked. I used Dev's site quite a bit, when I started out with Access. I really admire a lot of what he has done. However, I think a lot of what he has about Lookup Fields on there are wrong. I just changed my test, from a simple State lookup, to a StateID --> StateName setup. Added an ID (autonumber) field to tblStates, and then updated the data in my 'main' table to have the ID's, instead of the abbreviation. Then I switched it to a number field. I then copied the database again, and switched the copy to be a lookup field for the StateID. Compacted both (a little over 200,000 records in both), and NO difference in size. Without indexing... querying is the same speed, with indexing, the querying is still the same speed. However, I now noticed a difference in size, with a lookup field, when the field is indexed. That is definitely interesting. However, that goes away, if you use a callback function. VERY interesting. Have to give them half a point back, because there is a small amount of 'bloat', if you use a query/table for the lookup. But it's negligible, and also, both databases grow when you index the field, just grows a bit more. I would never really call that 'bloat'. Not trying to back track, but to me, bloat is when a database grows in size over time, but when compacted, it gets smaller. The portion that is 'reduced' is bloat. The portion left after the compact is 'overhead'. That's my definition. Admittedly, if you are going to run close to max db size, then lookups should be removed, to get that much more space. But we are talking overhead space, not really 'bloat'. As far as the compacting issue, that's another story. Microsoft has several good reasons for not releasing the inner workings of JET. First of all, there is the licensing issue. If you developed a software package you wanted people to buy, would you give anyone the source? Of course not. If MS gave out the inner workings of JET, it wouldn't be long until Access was unnecessary, because people would just roll their own JET engine. Another reason is support. Jet does a lot of stuff, so even if they did hand out the detailed specs, one little slip, and even a good developer could seriously fry an .mdb. There is nothing mysterious about corruption. It's usually easy to explain, and in most cases is fixable. What you must remember, is that file corruption is NOT limited to .mdb's. It can happen in any type of file. The difference between Access and other file types, however, is what makes it seem like more of an issue. A few years ago, our network was in a serious state of disrepair. We had file corruptions all over the place. That included Word and Excel files, and definitely included .mdb's. A file is nothing more then a series of bytes. With a bad network, flaky hard drive, corrupted OS, (and a million other reasons), it certainly is not impossible to goof a few bytes here and there. Now, depending on what kind of file it is, and what that file does, is going to determine how the corruption affects things. Take, for example, an .exe or .dll. Those files contain CPU instructions. Have you ever had a program start crashing on you? After an Uninstall and reinstall, everything is working again. A lot of times that is due to a file corruption. One corrupted (changed) byte in a .dll or .exe, and you are now changing how the CPU deals with that code. All sorts of things can happen. However, in something like and HTML file, HTML is designed to ignore what it doesn't understand, so it's nearly impossible to have normal file corruption do any real 'damage' to an HMTL file. The more common issues with Word and Excel are the 'locking' files. Something will goof in them, and then that file is locked out. Since Word/Excel is saving changes in those temp files, actual corruption in the original document is more rare (but not unheard of...excel and word have to update the original document when you save it, so that is when corruption can occur there). With an .mdb file, JET is monitoring who has what locked, is reading/updating indexes, reading/updating data, etc. A lot of activity in one file. The .ldb file is only storing who's logged in (and it is also used for locks within the .mdb, but other then the who's logged in, no other data is being changed in the .ldb, only locking bytes). Get a goofed byte in the mix, and things can either continue, go seriously awry, or somewhere in between. just depends what was affected. A lot of time, the corruption is simply someone's machine not 'closing' out of the database correctly. That is easily repaired. But if bytes are corrupted in the indexes, the table definitions, or in the code, that is something the system doesn't know how to 'replace', because it doesn't have a 'template' or 'starting point' to replace it with. As far as I know, the ONLY design issue KNOWN to corrupt a database, happens to lie with a problem between JET and Foxpro. Something about the differences between how JET deals with Memo fields, and Foxpro deals with them. Access does NOT corrupt .mdb's, it is an outside influence that does that. That is a VERY important concept to remember. Because of that, there are NO features within Access that will corrupt a database. (Yes, a feature could be programmed wrong, but Microsoft would eventually fix that with a service pack, because a self corrupting database system won't sell....). Recovering from a corruption all depends on where the corruption actually lies, which is not entirely blind luck. Since most corruption issues are only put into affect when a database is being read/locked/written, what you are reading/writing is usually going to be the place where the corruption lies. So it could be data within a table, table defs, indexes, code, etc. Practically everything used within a database. So not only are all database features designed to NOT corrupt the database, but they are also all prone to fail, if file corruption does occur. On top of that, all features have their own quirks as to the difficulties of recovering. Corruption in the data isn't too bad, since you'll just get a bad record or two. Corruption in code is more difficult, because it will probably lock up quite a bit of the code, but that can be returned. Corruption within a tabledef, or index can affect whether the data is easily retrievable, since JET uses them when retrieving it. Hope that clears up some of the mystery for you. Drew -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of John Bartow Sent: Friday, March 26, 2004 10:39 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] Lookup Fields in Table Design Hi Drew, Don't misunderstand me, your points are well taken, and you have my utmost respect as a developer/programmer. Corruption is just a hot spot on my psyche. If I knew HOW it was caused it would be different and that's the issue - apparently no one (including M$) does or they would prevent it. Even when considering that M$ allows some things to happen/not happen as a bone thrown to its third party developers, no one has a corruption fixing utility that works and is making money off of. "Data goes into black box - gets corrupted - data doesn't come out of black box." That's actually my biggest concern with Access. The absolute (publicly) undocumented proprietary nature of it. Sometimes I think the (publicly) can be left out of the statement. I'm actually quite surprised by the results of this little debate. Ken, Charlotte, Dev, Lebans and others all warn against it. I think the question I posed here to Susan concerning lookups originally came to mind about 5 years ago when I saw it on Dev's website under the "ten rules". I don't follow "rules" - when I see the word "rule" my mind automatically translates it to "strong guideline", but it made me curious. Like I said I don't generally use lookups, I have, and I will if the situation calls for them again. -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of DWUTKA at marlow.com Sent: Friday, March 26, 2004 1:17 AM To: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com; accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: RE: [AccessD] Lookup Fields in Table Design John, the points are cute, but the problem is that Lookup fields do NOT cause corruption. He said they made it more difficult to fix. There are a TON of things (that everyone uses) that make repairing corruption more difficult. Essentially, if you make a blank database, and put it on CD, you stand the best chances of recovering that database when it's completely blank, and never used. Once you start adding data, code, objecs, etc, you are adding things which can complicate a recovery. So it's a no pointer / moot point, to say that lookup's made a particular recovery difficult. If there had been a bit of error handling code, which got in the way of recovering a database, would you say 'I'll never use Error Handling code, because it made my life difficult once'? I didn't think so. Drew -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From DWUTKA at marlow.com Fri Mar 26 13:43:16 2004 From: DWUTKA at marlow.com (DWUTKA at marlow.com) Date: Fri, 26 Mar 2004 13:43:16 -0600 Subject: [AccessD] Lookup Fields in Table Design Message-ID: <2F8793082E00D4119A1700B0D0216BF8022279D2@main2.marlow.com> Comments in-line: -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of John Bartow Sent: Friday, March 26, 2004 10:39 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] Lookup Fields in Table Design Here are "The Evils of Lookup Fields in Tables" from Dev's website: A Lookup field in a table displays the looked-up value. For instance, if a user opens a table datasheet and sees a column of company names, what is in the table is, in fact, a numeric CompanyID, and the table is linked with a select statement to the company table by that ID. (Dev's site says this adds confusion to a user, when looking at a well designed database structure. The key is, the users shouldn't really care how the database is designed. A lookup field is still storing the RIGHT data (ID's, in this case), it's just displaying differently, which is a catch 22. A user might be confused that what they are seeing isn't really in the table, but then again, they would probably be just as confused if they say the actual ID. Ever use Random ID's? If they saw Random ID values in there, it would mean practically nothing, but by seeing what the ID represents, they at least understand what's in that field). Any query that uses that lookup field to sort by that company name won't work. Nor will a query that uses a company name in that field as a criteria. If a user creates a combobox to select the company using a value list, the data in the table can be over-written. (This gives the impression that querying doesn't work against a lookup field. That is absolutely not true. it just means that you have to give criteria with the appropriate type. With a State Abbreviation lookup, where the field is text, and the lookup just gives a list of what text can be in there, this argument is null and void, because the field is the same whether it's lookup or not. But if you store an ID in the field, and the lookup shows text, then you just write querries the RIGHT way, and query that field with the ID. In fact, if you use a form for query criteria, you put a combobox, with the bound column being the ID, and the user doesn't know the difference at all. As far as a user creating a form with a value list combo box.....ummmm, if you let your users do that, you have a lot more problems to deal with, more important ones in fact.) Another relationship is created which then creates another set of indexes when a Lookup field is created, thus bloating the database unnecessarily. (This is true. ONLY if the lookup field is indexed though. You are already getting a size increase from the index, which speeds things up, so you are getting a minor increase if it's a lookup too. Again (from previous post), I don't consider this bloat, because it's just a part of how JET indexes stuff. We don't consider Indexing bloat, do we?) If a combobox based on the lookup is used in a form, and a filter is applied, the persistent filter effect of Access often saves the filter and the next time the form is opened, there will be a prompt for the value (which cannot be provided, thus creating an error). (Interesting, saw this on the site, haven't looked into it. This would be an issue, but so far the only one I would actually count. (Don't care about it though, I don't let my users filter my forms, unless it's a rare occasion). Reports based on the lookup field need a combobox to display the data, causing them to run more slowly. The underlying recordsource can also be modified to include the table, however the index, (unless it was set up within a proper relationship) may not be optimized. (Not true. You would have a query to link the data you want to display (unless you want to display an ID), and the joined field would be what goes in the report. Lookups have no affect on what controls you CAN put into place. Only sets what the default is). Lookup fields mask what is really happening, and hide good relational methodology from the user. (Ah, this is where I read it, not the first paragraph. What's the point? Users are confused with good relational methodology as it is. What's their point?) The database cannot be properly upsized to, or queried by, another engine (without removing all the lookup fields) because no other engines use or understand them. (Not sure what they are saying. I know that JET recognizes them, so JET can be used to pull the data anywhere you want.) If security is implemented, permissions to tables is usually denied, and RWOP queries are used for data access. There will often be errors that there are no permissions on a specific table that isn't even being used in a query (because the lookup field is). If the queries are nested or complex, it can take some time to track down the lookup that's causing the error (that is, if it occurs to you). (This is arguing about complexity. Yes, you should know what you are doing before developing something professionally. But that doesn't mean that if something should be used CORRECTLY that it should never be used at all. This paragraph is basically saying 'If you don't setup your Access User Level security correctly, you could get errors in your Lookups.' Well, DUH! You'll get errors all over the place.) http://www.mvps.org/access/tencommandments.htm So in conclusion, the only real valid point, IMHO, is the error involved with filtering forms. Would have to reproduce to determine where the issue lies with that. Drew -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From DWUTKA at marlow.com Fri Mar 26 13:46:30 2004 From: DWUTKA at marlow.com (DWUTKA at marlow.com) Date: Fri, 26 Mar 2004 13:46:30 -0600 Subject: Lookup Fields: Was: RE: [AccessD] Fr@mework Discussion - set up q uestion Message-ID: <2F8793082E00D4119A1700B0D0216BF8022279D3@main2.marlow.com> If you get right down to it, MOST of my development is in VB 6 or ASP, for front ends, so Access forms aren't that big a deal for me. But I do develop Access FE's from time to time, and have yet to see the harm in using Lookups when necessary. Plus, with VB or ASP front ends, it's handy to go in and see the data. Putting lookups in, allows me to look at applicable information in the tables, instead of pk's, which have no real meaning to what I am looking for. (Most of the time. sometimes I do want to see the pks, so then I just turn the lookups off!) Drew -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Francisco H Tapia Sent: Friday, March 26, 2004 11:02 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: Lookup Fields: Was: RE: [AccessD] Fr at mework Discussion - set up q uestion DWUTKA at marlow.com said the following on 3/26/2004 8:38 AM: >Let me ask you a question though, because you and I have agreed on a lot of >other things before, so I'm a little shocked on your position on this. If >you have an Address table, (for US clients....for this example), and you >want to get the two letter state abbreviation, do you simply give them a >textbox, or do you give them a combo that builds itself from a 'State' >table? I go with the state table. And since I may have multiple forms >based on that table, I usually use a Lookup field, so that when I build the >form, that combo is predefined. > > This particular example is kind of bad (for me), because I try to create one form for one purpose, thus the data entry screen for addresses is done on one form, thus end users use the same form to add/edit addresses that require the combobox that points to a table of states. So yes, that's a lookup on the "FORM" not the base table. That has no point... so I have one need for the state combobox.. why build it at the table level? and I encourage for my users to type in the zipcode first so they don't usually search for states... :) -- -Francisco -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From cfoust at infostatsystems.com Fri Mar 26 13:49:56 2004 From: cfoust at infostatsystems.com (Charlotte Foust) Date: Fri, 26 Mar 2004 11:49:56 -0800 Subject: Lookup Fields: Was: RE: [AccessD] Fr@mework Discussion - set up q uestion Message-ID: I think that's where some of the argument comes in, Drew. Those of us who work entirely in Access FEs have a different perspective on some of the things you discount. As for bloat, that is a major issue in Access FEs, since that's where all the queries execute and all the temporary queries cause the bloat. Charlotte Foust -----Original Message----- From: DWUTKA at marlow.com [mailto:DWUTKA at marlow.com] Sent: Friday, March 26, 2004 11:46 AM To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: RE: Lookup Fields: Was: RE: [AccessD] Fr at mework Discussion - set up q uestion If you get right down to it, MOST of my development is in VB 6 or ASP, for front ends, so Access forms aren't that big a deal for me. But I do develop Access FE's from time to time, and have yet to see the harm in using Lookups when necessary. Plus, with VB or ASP front ends, it's handy to go in and see the data. Putting lookups in, allows me to look at applicable information in the tables, instead of pk's, which have no real meaning to what I am looking for. (Most of the time. sometimes I do want to see the pks, so then I just turn the lookups off!) Drew -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Francisco H Tapia Sent: Friday, March 26, 2004 11:02 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: Lookup Fields: Was: RE: [AccessD] Fr at mework Discussion - set up q uestion DWUTKA at marlow.com said the following on 3/26/2004 8:38 AM: >Let me ask you a question though, because you and I have agreed on a >lot of other things before, so I'm a little shocked on your position on >this. If you have an Address table, (for US clients....for this >example), and you want to get the two letter state abbreviation, do you >simply give them a textbox, or do you give them a combo that builds >itself from a 'State' table? I go with the state table. And since I >may have multiple forms based on that table, I usually use a Lookup >field, so that when I build the form, that combo is predefined. > > This particular example is kind of bad (for me), because I try to create one form for one purpose, thus the data entry screen for addresses is done on one form, thus end users use the same form to add/edit addresses that require the combobox that points to a table of states. So yes, that's a lookup on the "FORM" not the base table. That has no point... so I have one need for the state combobox.. why build it at the table level? and I encourage for my users to type in the zipcode first so they don't usually search for states... :) -- -Francisco -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From Bryan_Carbonnell at cbc.ca Fri Mar 26 13:52:59 2004 From: Bryan_Carbonnell at cbc.ca (Bryan Carbonnell) Date: Fri, 26 Mar 2004 14:52:59 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Lookup Fields in Table Design Message-ID: I'll partially disagree with you on this point Drew. >The more common issues with Word and Excel are the 'locking' files >original document is more rare (but not unheard of...excel and word have to Corruption of the main doc is not more rare. I have had more Word doc go south on me than any type locking file or mdb or any other file. I have never heard of a locking file getting corrupt. I have never had an Excel doc go south, so I can't speak about which is more common in Excel. Bryan Carbonnell bryan_carbonnell at cbc.ca >>> DWUTKA at marlow.com 26-Mar-04 2:27:58 PM >>> file. The more common issues with Word and Excel are the 'locking' files. Something will goof in them, and then that file is locked out. Since Word/Excel is saving changes in those temp files, actual corruption in the original document is more rare (but not unheard of...excel and word have to update the original document when you save it, so that is when corruption can occur there). From ssharkins at bellsouth.net Fri Mar 26 13:53:51 2004 From: ssharkins at bellsouth.net (Susan Harkins) Date: Fri, 26 Mar 2004 14:53:51 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Lookup Fields in Table Design In-Reply-To: <19233455246.20040326180410@cactus.dk> Message-ID: <20040326195346.VQLT1780.imf23aec.mail.bellsouth.net@SUSANONE> And this discussion becomes moot (isn't that the wording for such a situation you use "over there"?) ========Typical developer response. :) You assume the average user knows how to do that -- controls inherit the lookup field, so the user doesn't even need to bother -- it is already there! It isn't moot yet. ;) Susan H. From ssharkins at bellsouth.net Fri Mar 26 13:57:00 2004 From: ssharkins at bellsouth.net (Susan Harkins) Date: Fri, 26 Mar 2004 14:57:00 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Lookup Fields in Table Design In-Reply-To: <2F8793082E00D4119A1700B0D0216BF8022279D1@main2.marlow.com> Message-ID: <20040326195657.VRXF1780.imf23aec.mail.bellsouth.net@SUSANONE> VERY interesting. Have to give them half a point back, because there is a small amount of 'bloat', if you use a query/table for the lookup. But it's negligible, and also, both databases grow when you index the field, just grows a bit more. I would never really call that 'bloat'. Not trying to back track, but to me, bloat is when a database grows in size over time, but when compacted, it gets smaller. The portion that is 'reduced' is bloat. The portion left after the compact is 'overhead'. That's my definition. Admittedly, if you are going to run close to max db size, then lookups should be removed, to get that much more space. But we are talking overhead space, not really 'bloat'. ==============Wait!!!!!!!!!!! Is it true bloat, or just normal increase due to feature use. I mean, if you use it, it's going to cost something somewhere. So don't be so quick to label it -- but if it really bloat, then OK. :) Susan H. From jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com Fri Mar 26 13:59:25 2004 From: jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com (John W. Colby) Date: Fri, 26 Mar 2004 14:59:25 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Lookup Fields in Table Design In-Reply-To: <2F8793082E00D4119A1700B0D0216BF8022279D2@main2.marlow.com> Message-ID: >If a combobox based on the lookup is used in a form, and a filter is applied, the persistent filter effect of Access often saves the filter and the next time the form is opened, there will be a prompt for the value (which cannot be provided, thus creating an error). I have seen this too, though I never knew what was causing it! John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of DWUTKA at marlow.com Sent: Friday, March 26, 2004 2:43 PM To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: RE: [AccessD] Lookup Fields in Table Design Comments in-line: -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of John Bartow Sent: Friday, March 26, 2004 10:39 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] Lookup Fields in Table Design Here are "The Evils of Lookup Fields in Tables" from Dev's website: A Lookup field in a table displays the looked-up value. For instance, if a user opens a table datasheet and sees a column of company names, what is in the table is, in fact, a numeric CompanyID, and the table is linked with a select statement to the company table by that ID. (Dev's site says this adds confusion to a user, when looking at a well designed database structure. The key is, the users shouldn't really care how the database is designed. A lookup field is still storing the RIGHT data (ID's, in this case), it's just displaying differently, which is a catch 22. A user might be confused that what they are seeing isn't really in the table, but then again, they would probably be just as confused if they say the actual ID. Ever use Random ID's? If they saw Random ID values in there, it would mean practically nothing, but by seeing what the ID represents, they at least understand what's in that field). Any query that uses that lookup field to sort by that company name won't work. Nor will a query that uses a company name in that field as a criteria. If a user creates a combobox to select the company using a value list, the data in the table can be over-written. (This gives the impression that querying doesn't work against a lookup field. That is absolutely not true. it just means that you have to give criteria with the appropriate type. With a State Abbreviation lookup, where the field is text, and the lookup just gives a list of what text can be in there, this argument is null and void, because the field is the same whether it's lookup or not. But if you store an ID in the field, and the lookup shows text, then you just write querries the RIGHT way, and query that field with the ID. In fact, if you use a form for query criteria, you put a combobox, with the bound column being the ID, and the user doesn't know the difference at all. As far as a user creating a form with a value list combo box.....ummmm, if you let your users do that, you have a lot more problems to deal with, more important ones in fact.) Another relationship is created which then creates another set of indexes when a Lookup field is created, thus bloating the database unnecessarily. (This is true. ONLY if the lookup field is indexed though. You are already getting a size increase from the index, which speeds things up, so you are getting a minor increase if it's a lookup too. Again (from previous post), I don't consider this bloat, because it's just a part of how JET indexes stuff. We don't consider Indexing bloat, do we?) If a combobox based on the lookup is used in a form, and a filter is applied, the persistent filter effect of Access often saves the filter and the next time the form is opened, there will be a prompt for the value (which cannot be provided, thus creating an error). (Interesting, saw this on the site, haven't looked into it. This would be an issue, but so far the only one I would actually count. (Don't care about it though, I don't let my users filter my forms, unless it's a rare occasion). Reports based on the lookup field need a combobox to display the data, causing them to run more slowly. The underlying recordsource can also be modified to include the table, however the index, (unless it was set up within a proper relationship) may not be optimized. (Not true. You would have a query to link the data you want to display (unless you want to display an ID), and the joined field would be what goes in the report. Lookups have no affect on what controls you CAN put into place. Only sets what the default is). Lookup fields mask what is really happening, and hide good relational methodology from the user. (Ah, this is where I read it, not the first paragraph. What's the point? Users are confused with good relational methodology as it is. What's their point?) The database cannot be properly upsized to, or queried by, another engine (without removing all the lookup fields) because no other engines use or understand them. (Not sure what they are saying. I know that JET recognizes them, so JET can be used to pull the data anywhere you want.) If security is implemented, permissions to tables is usually denied, and RWOP queries are used for data access. There will often be errors that there are no permissions on a specific table that isn't even being used in a query (because the lookup field is). If the queries are nested or complex, it can take some time to track down the lookup that's causing the error (that is, if it occurs to you). (This is arguing about complexity. Yes, you should know what you are doing before developing something professionally. But that doesn't mean that if something should be used CORRECTLY that it should never be used at all. This paragraph is basically saying 'If you don't setup your Access User Level security correctly, you could get errors in your Lookups.' Well, DUH! You'll get errors all over the place.) http://www.mvps.org/access/tencommandments.htm So in conclusion, the only real valid point, IMHO, is the error involved with filtering forms. Would have to reproduce to determine where the issue lies with that. Drew -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From john at winhaven.net Fri Mar 26 13:58:22 2004 From: john at winhaven.net (John Bartow) Date: Fri, 26 Mar 2004 13:58:22 -0600 Subject: [AccessD] Lookup Fields in Table Design In-Reply-To: Message-ID: NO! Not referring to anyone on this list. -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Charlotte Foust Sent: Friday, March 26, 2004 1:26 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] Lookup Fields in Table Design >>most generally the "bully" of the group's mentality Are you talking about Drew?? Charlotte Foust -----Original Message----- From: John Bartow [mailto:john at winhaven.net] Sent: Friday, March 26, 2004 10:50 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] Lookup Fields in Table Design Charlotte, You'll find that most people are more strongly opinionated than I am (on many issues). While I may jest about starting flame wars, I really don't enjoy seeing people argue. However, I do enjoy seeing people debate an issue. Especially a group with as intelligent and capable people as we have here. There are many lists where one gets chastised for not conforming to the group mentality (most generally the "bully" of the group's mentality)- I don't stick around those lists very long - not because I can't take getting chastised but because there is really not much one can learn from people who think they have all of the answers for all eternity! And there is certainly little opportunity for me to "help" anyone in that situation. I do try to give back what I can on any list I am on (including directing people to this list). I question the status quo. I listen to all sides of an issue (and there are usually more than two sides). I make a decision. I recommend things based on informed decisions. I accept that not everyone is going to take my recommendations. I revisit my decisions on a regular basis to see if there are compelling reasons to change them. I believe this is why I am a very good "consultant". John PS: We'll just leave my capabilities as a "programmer" out of it! ;o) -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Charlotte Foust Sent: Friday, March 26, 2004 12:19 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] Lookup Fields in Table Design John, You are NOT getting into the spirit of this discussion. Reasonableness has no place here! Charlotte Foust -----Original Message----- From: John Bartow [mailto:john at winhaven.net] Sent: Friday, March 26, 2004 10:00 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] Lookup Fields in Table Design Here's a stretch but... For people that like to use the added form designing capabilites of the lookup property, once the table design and realtionships are complete you could set the desired lookup properties. Design all of the forms for the application. When the application design is complete you could run code that iterates the table collection and eliminates all lookup properties in the table design. This in essence would eliminate the corruption and performance issues. Eh? -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Charlotte Foust Sent: Friday, March 26, 2004 11:39 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] Lookup Fields in Table Design There is also the issue of TableID limits, which I believe include all the tables involved as lookups. Charlotte Foust -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From gustav at cactus.dk Fri Mar 26 13:59:55 2004 From: gustav at cactus.dk (Gustav Brock) Date: Fri, 26 Mar 2004 20:59:55 +0100 Subject: Lookup Fields: Was: RE: [AccessD] Fr@mework Discussion - set up q uestion In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <18844000289.20040326205955@cactus.dk> Hi Charlotte If you write protect the FE file, those bloating data will be directed into temp files. This, of course, will require that you design the FE to not redesign itself. /gustav > .. As for bloat, that is a major issue in Access > FEs, since that's where all the queries execute and all the temporary > queries cause the bloat. From DWUTKA at marlow.com Fri Mar 26 14:08:33 2004 From: DWUTKA at marlow.com (DWUTKA at marlow.com) Date: Fri, 26 Mar 2004 14:08:33 -0600 Subject: [AccessD] Lookup Fields in Table Design Message-ID: <2F8793082E00D4119A1700B0D0216BF8022279D4@main2.marlow.com> Gustav, my issue is this, saying that something is bad, and not giving actual reasons, is pushing your preferences on to people, as fact, instead of what they are, preferences. Everyone has had to learn something new at some point in time. When you learn something new, it's very handy to listen to people that have been there, and done that. It makes the learning curve a lot less steep! In fact, IMNSHO, that is the very purpose of this list. However, when someone is new to a subject, and you are teaching them your knowledge and experience, they probably won't have the foundation set, to allow them to differentiate between what is fact, and what is preference. That is YOUR job, as the teacher. There is nothing wrong with passing along your preferences, especially if you back up why you do what you do. However, saying that Lookups are BAD PRACTICE, is NOT passing on a fact, it's passing on a preference. If the statements made were something along the lines of, 'When you use Lookups, you need to make sure that stuff is well documented, that you are smart in your relational design, and that you understand how they work', then I would not have said a word. But instead, the general comment was 'Lookups are bad, because they bloat and slow down a database, and they are confusing.'. Very broad reasoning, and to a beginner, that could easily cement the idea that they should never use them. However, the 'bloat' is just part of indexing, which is something you definitely shouldn't avoid, indexes are good. The slowdown has yet to be proven (haven't seen it myself at all, in fact I proved otherwise), and the 'confusion' part is a catch 22, so it can't really be used. What may be confusing to some users, can be very helpful for others. I use ADO far more then I use DAO. I use ADO because I like the flexibility to switch between datasources. It makes my code a lot more portable. Do I pass on to others that DAO is bad, because I prefer ADO? No. In fact, I readily admit that DAO is native to JET, so it is more powerful when dealing with an .mdb. It's faster too. Faster and More powerful definitely don't point to 'do not use'. However, I try to explain that unless I absolutely need speed and/or power, I go for portability. With today's computers, the speed isn't nearly as critical in most of the stuff I develop, and the power only comes into play when there is specific stuff I need to do, which is rare, that DAO can do, and ADO can't. I leave it up to the learner, to determine what their preference is going to be. Have you ever heard an 'expert' tell a 'newbie' that field sizes are important to prevent database bloat? I have. Not kidding. I have seen so many databases where you can tell someone went beserk trying to 'maximize' their field design by messing with text field sizes. Hopefully the expert wasn't a complete moron, and actually knew that text fields take up only the space they need, (data plus one byte), and that using the text field size option merely limits what the user can actually put in. If that's the case, the 'expert' just prefers to control data input at the table level, instead of at an interface level. That's just a preference. But to gloss over the reason, by saying something that 'makes sense', but isn't exactly true, is wrong. That 'newbie' is walking away thinking they have learned a fact, but instead, they were misled. I'm not pointing this at you Gustav, not at all, just on my soap box at the moment. Drew -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Gustav Brock Sent: Friday, March 26, 2004 11:04 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Lookup Fields in Table Design Hi all lookuppers Maybe I'm dense but - as mentioned by Ken - if you really need the feature of lookup fields (and I did once for some superuser administrative tasks performed once a year or never, thus not justifying design of eight forms) you simply - in a separate frontend database - create some queries retrieving exactly the fields you need (which excludes the ID), readable aliases for the fields, and lookups as needed. Then everybody is happy. You avoid fiddling with the table design and you can easily redesign the queries if and when needed and you take advantage of a feature of Access which can be handy. And this discussion becomes moot (isn't that the wording for such a situation you use "over there"?) /gustav > Here are "The Evils of Lookup Fields in Tables" from Dev's website: > A Lookup field in a table displays the looked-up value. For instance, if a > user opens a table datasheet and sees a column of company names, what is in > the table is, in fact, a numeric CompanyID, and the table is linked with a > select statement to the company table by that ID. > Any query that uses that lookup field to sort by that company name won't > work. Nor will a query that uses a company name in that field as a criteria. > If a user creates a combobox to select the company using a value list, the > data in the table can be over-written. > Another relationship is created which then creates another set of indexes > when a Lookup field is created, thus bloating the database unnecessarily. > If a combobox based on the lookup is used in a form, and a filter is > applied, the persistent filter effect of Access often saves the filter and > the next time the form is opened, there will be a prompt for the value > (which cannot be provided, thus creating an error). > Reports based on the lookup field need a combobox to display the data, > causing them to run more slowly. The underlying recordsource can also be > modified to include the table, however the index, (unless it was set up > within a proper relationship) may not be optimized. > Lookup fields mask what is really happening, and hide good relational > methodology from the user. > The database cannot be properly upsized to, or queried by, another engine > (without removing all the lookup fields) because no other engines use or > understand them. > If security is implemented, permissions to tables is usually denied, and > RWOP queries are used for data access. There will often be errors that there > are no permissions on a specific table that isn't even being used in a query > (because the lookup field is). If the queries are nested or complex, it can > take some time to track down the lookup that's causing the error (that is, > if it occurs to you). > http://www.mvps.org/access/tencommandments.htm -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From DWUTKA at marlow.com Fri Mar 26 14:11:24 2004 From: DWUTKA at marlow.com (DWUTKA at marlow.com) Date: Fri, 26 Mar 2004 14:11:24 -0600 Subject: [AccessD] Lookup Fields in Table Design Message-ID: <2F8793082E00D4119A1700B0D0216BF8022279D5@main2.marlow.com> What's the TableID limit? (value and explanation) Drew -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Charlotte Foust Sent: Friday, March 26, 2004 11:39 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] Lookup Fields in Table Design There is also the issue of TableID limits, which I believe include all the tables involved as lookups. Charlotte Foust -----Original Message----- From: Gustav Brock [mailto:gustav at cactus.dk] Sent: Friday, March 26, 2004 9:04 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Lookup Fields in Table Design Hi all lookuppers Maybe I'm dense but - as mentioned by Ken - if you really need the feature of lookup fields (and I did once for some superuser administrative tasks performed once a year or never, thus not justifying design of eight forms) you simply - in a separate frontend database - create some queries retrieving exactly the fields you need (which excludes the ID), readable aliases for the fields, and lookups as needed. Then everybody is happy. You avoid fiddling with the table design and you can easily redesign the queries if and when needed and you take advantage of a feature of Access which can be handy. And this discussion becomes moot (isn't that the wording for such a situation you use "over there"?) /gustav > Here are "The Evils of Lookup Fields in Tables" from Dev's website: > A Lookup field in a table displays the looked-up value. For instance, > if a user opens a table datasheet and sees a column of company names, > what is in the table is, in fact, a numeric CompanyID, and the table > is linked with a select statement to the company table by that ID. > Any query that uses that lookup field to sort by that company name > won't work. Nor will a query that uses a company name in that field as > a criteria. If a user creates a combobox to select the company using a > value list, the data in the table can be over-written. > Another relationship is created which then creates another set of > indexes when a Lookup field is created, thus bloating the database > unnecessarily. > If a combobox based on the lookup is used in a form, and a filter is > applied, the persistent filter effect of Access often saves the filter > and the next time the form is opened, there will be a prompt for the > value (which cannot be provided, thus creating an error). > Reports based on the lookup field need a combobox to display the data, > causing them to run more slowly. The underlying recordsource can also > be modified to include the table, however the index, (unless it was > set up within a proper relationship) may not be optimized. > Lookup fields mask what is really happening, and hide good relational > methodology from the user. > The database cannot be properly upsized to, or queried by, another > engine (without removing all the lookup fields) because no other > engines use or understand them. > If security is implemented, permissions to tables is usually denied, > and RWOP queries are used for data access. There will often be errors > that there are no permissions on a specific table that isn't even > being used in a query (because the lookup field is). If the queries > are nested or complex, it can take some time to track down the lookup > that's causing the error (that is, if it occurs to you). > http://www.mvps.org/access/tencommandments.htm -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From DWUTKA at marlow.com Fri Mar 26 14:13:06 2004 From: DWUTKA at marlow.com (DWUTKA at marlow.com) Date: Fri, 26 Mar 2004 14:13:06 -0600 Subject: [AccessD] Framework Discussion - set up question Message-ID: <2F8793082E00D4119A1700B0D0216BF8022279D6@main2.marlow.com> Probably. Sorry. I've provided two step by step examples, that show no speed decrease. So I'm just a little excited to find something I didn't see. Because that one example, using a Callback function, showed what should have been a massive time delay, but there was none at all, until you actually tried to list the combo. Drew -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Charlotte Foust Sent: Friday, March 26, 2004 11:41 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] Framework Discussion - set up question Isn't that a bit strident, Drew? Ken will get you an example when he gets it to you. Either be polite or go to your corner. Charlotte Foust -----Original Message----- From: DWUTKA at marlow.com [mailto:DWUTKA at marlow.com] Sent: Friday, March 26, 2004 8:46 AM To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: RE: [AccessD] Framework Discussion - set up question Ken, still waiting on your example database. Everything I have tested shows that Lookup fields are NOT used until they are entered, with the exception of a brief check if the referenced tables/querries exist. Drew -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Ken Ismert Sent: Thursday, March 25, 2004 8:19 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: [AccessD] Framework Discussion - set up question -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From gustav at cactus.dk Fri Mar 26 14:22:16 2004 From: gustav at cactus.dk (Gustav Brock) Date: Fri, 26 Mar 2004 21:22:16 +0100 Subject: [AccessD] Lookup Fields in Table Design In-Reply-To: <20040326195346.VQLT1780.imf23aec.mail.bellsouth.net@SUSANONE> References: <20040326195346.VQLT1780.imf23aec.mail.bellsouth.net@SUSANONE> Message-ID: <13445341026.20040326212216@cactus.dk> Hi Susan > And this discussion becomes moot (isn't that the wording for such a > situation you use "over there"?) > ========Typical developer response. :) You assume the average user knows how > to do that -- controls inherit the lookup field, so the user doesn't even > need to bother -- it is already there! It isn't moot yet. ;) You are right. I have yet to see a user using Access as a desktop application - they just don't understand what a relational database is - and I only deal with split database design. /gustav From DWUTKA at marlow.com Fri Mar 26 14:28:47 2004 From: DWUTKA at marlow.com (DWUTKA at marlow.com) Date: Fri, 26 Mar 2004 14:28:47 -0600 Subject: [AccessD] Lookup Fields in Table Design Message-ID: <2F8793082E00D4119A1700B0D0216BF8022279D7@main2.marlow.com> And like I said to Gustav, that is EXACTLY why I got into this thread. You can't really understand something, if you can't challenge stuff with a 'why not?'. And if the answer doesn't really wash, you need to drill down until you find the real 'why not', or until you find that you 'can'. It's like the SendKeys issue. Yes, Sendkeys has a bug, which causes the Numlock key to change state. WAY too many people say that you should NEVER use the SendKeys statement, unless it's a dire emergency. That's wrong. Because, if you use the Sendkeys statement, emergency or not, you are probably going to run into the bug. So you have to see if you can handle the bug, which you can. You check (and store) the state of the numlock key before Sendkeys, and then check (and restore if necessary) the state of the numlock key afterwards. So, if you use the Sendkeys in a spot where you absolutely have to, you should put in code to handle the bug, which then makes the Sendkeys function safe. Since it's safe to use then, it also makes it safe to use everywhere else. Granted, the real reason you shouldn't use sendkeys, is because you are trying to 'mimic' a user interaction, and in cases where there is a strictly code interaction method, you should use the code interaction method instead, because there is no chance of the users 'goofing' what you are sending. (A user might try to type into a box, or react to an interface, but if you can avoid the interface, and do what you need to, through code, then you eliminate that risk). Almost makes you wonder if Microsoft put the Numlock bug into Sendkeys to give them a reason to tell people not to use it! LOL There are a LOT of little things that are put out as 'law', but are really guidelines, or methods that people used to get to a certain spot, and then stopped. Like hiding the Access window. If you hide the Access window, you need to have an open 'pop-up' form visible, for the users to interact with the database. If you close that form, but don't 'show' Access, you now have an open instance of Access, that looks like you can't get to it. A lot of people/sites warn that you have to close it through the Task Manager. Not true, you just need to know more code, because you can tell windows to make the Access window visible again. It's not too difficult, because the Microsoft Access window has a class of OMain, which is unique to Access. (every version so far (97 and up, don't know about previous versions). It is also said that you need to set the modal property to true in A2k and up. Which is also not true, you can get around it with another ShowWindow() API call. All I am saying is that I'm tired of hearing things that are 'bad practice', when they are really just preferences. No spaces in table names, that's a bad practice, there is solid reasoning behind it. Using SendKeys isn't bad practice. Using it willy nilly, and not 'capturing' the bug with Numlock code, THAT's bad practice. But using it when necessary, and protecting against the bug, that's not bad practice, in fact, that's GOOD practice. Just my humble opinion. Drew -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of John Bartow Sent: Friday, March 26, 2004 11:55 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] Lookup Fields in Table Design Hi Gustav: "moot" would be the correct word - if it really applied ;o) I actually do things the way you describe. But I do it based on other developers advice that I never really questioned before. I believe the discussion is: why not (use the lookups property)? For instance, when I did use it on a particular project where it fit the need it did make form design quicker and easier (once I adjusted to it). It makes placing combo boxes (in my case to lookup a foreign key) very simple. Just drag the control out and forget about it. A one step process. Being suspicious that it would cause problems later I went back to how I had done it previously. The 2 or 3 extra steps when placing a combo box really isn't adding a lot of overhead to my overall development time. But it does beg the question: why not? John B. -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Gustav Brock Sent: Friday, March 26, 2004 11:04 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Lookup Fields in Table Design Hi all lookuppers Maybe I'm dense but - as mentioned by Ken - if you really need the feature of lookup fields (and I did once for some superuser administrative tasks performed once a year or never, thus not justifying design of eight forms) you simply - in a separate frontend database - create some queries retrieving exactly the fields you need (which excludes the ID), readable aliases for the fields, and lookups as needed. Then everybody is happy. You avoid fiddling with the table design and you can easily redesign the queries if and when needed and you take advantage of a feature of Access which can be handy. And this discussion becomes moot (isn't that the wording for such a situation you use "over there"?) /gustav > Here are "The Evils of Lookup Fields in Tables" from Dev's website: > A Lookup field in a table displays the looked-up value. For instance, if a > user opens a table datasheet and sees a column of company names, what is in > the table is, in fact, a numeric CompanyID, and the table is linked with a > select statement to the company table by that ID. > Any query that uses that lookup field to sort by that company name won't > work. Nor will a query that uses a company name in that field as a criteria. > If a user creates a combobox to select the company using a value list, the > data in the table can be over-written. > Another relationship is created which then creates another set of indexes > when a Lookup field is created, thus bloating the database unnecessarily. > If a combobox based on the lookup is used in a form, and a filter is > applied, the persistent filter effect of Access often saves the filter and > the next time the form is opened, there will be a prompt for the value > (which cannot be provided, thus creating an error). > Reports based on the lookup field need a combobox to display the data, > causing them to run more slowly. The underlying recordsource can also be > modified to include the table, however the index, (unless it was set up > within a proper relationship) may not be optimized. > Lookup fields mask what is really happening, and hide good relational > methodology from the user. > The database cannot be properly upsized to, or queried by, another engine > (without removing all the lookup fields) because no other engines use or > understand them. > If security is implemented, permissions to tables is usually denied, and > RWOP queries are used for data access. There will often be errors that there > are no permissions on a specific table that isn't even being used in a query > (because the lookup field is). If the queries are nested or complex, it can > take some time to track down the lookup that's causing the error (that is, > if it occurs to you). > http://www.mvps.org/access/tencommandments.htm -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From DWUTKA at marlow.com Fri Mar 26 14:30:01 2004 From: DWUTKA at marlow.com (DWUTKA at marlow.com) Date: Fri, 26 Mar 2004 14:30:01 -0600 Subject: [AccessD] Lookup Fields in Table Design Message-ID: <2F8793082E00D4119A1700B0D0216BF8022279D8@main2.marlow.com> Hey, I'm not arguing for the sake of arguing here! Drew -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Charlotte Foust Sent: Friday, March 26, 2004 12:19 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] Lookup Fields in Table Design John, You are NOT getting into the spirit of this discussion. Reasonableness has no place here! Charlotte Foust -----Original Message----- From: John Bartow [mailto:john at winhaven.net] Sent: Friday, March 26, 2004 10:00 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] Lookup Fields in Table Design Here's a stretch but... For people that like to use the added form designing capabilites of the lookup property, once the table design and realtionships are complete you could set the desired lookup properties. Design all of the forms for the application. When the application design is complete you could run code that iterates the table collection and eliminates all lookup properties in the table design. This in essence would eliminate the corruption and performance issues. Eh? -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Charlotte Foust Sent: Friday, March 26, 2004 11:39 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] Lookup Fields in Table Design There is also the issue of TableID limits, which I believe include all the tables involved as lookups. Charlotte Foust -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From DWUTKA at marlow.com Fri Mar 26 14:30:58 2004 From: DWUTKA at marlow.com (DWUTKA at marlow.com) Date: Fri, 26 Mar 2004 14:30:58 -0600 Subject: [AccessD] Lookup Fields in Table Design Message-ID: <2F8793082E00D4119A1700B0D0216BF8022279D9@main2.marlow.com> And there's nothing wrong with that at all. Not arguing that they SHOULD be used, just arguing that there is really no big reason not too. I knew I liked you for some reason gustav! LOL Drew -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Gustav Brock Sent: Friday, March 26, 2004 12:45 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Lookup Fields in Table Design Hi John > I believe the discussion is: why not (use the lookups property)? In that case I can't tell; I've just never felt the need as form design for my part never is "very simple" and I always use queries as recordsource for forms and combos. For me tables are tables. However, if anyone find lookups in tables of value, feel free - but I don't think I'll join the party. As I told, I've used them once (in queries) only) - that's all. /gustav -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From KIsmert at TexasSystems.com Fri Mar 26 14:33:06 2004 From: KIsmert at TexasSystems.com (Ken Ismert) Date: Fri, 26 Mar 2004 14:33:06 -0600 Subject: [AccessD] Lookup Fields in Table Design In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <004001c41371$8c3b1150$2a3ca8c0@TEXASSYSTEMS.COM> McCool. If you have code that does that, I'd love to see it. -Ken -----Original Message----- From: John Bartow [mailto:john at winhaven.net] Sent: Friday, March 26, 2004 12:00 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] Lookup Fields in Table Design Here's a stretch but... For people that like to use the added form designing capabilites of the lookup property, once the table design and realtionships are complete you could set the desired lookup properties. Design all of the forms for the application. When the application design is complete you could run code that iterates the table collection and eliminates all lookup properties in the table design. This in essence would eliminate the corruption and performance issues. Eh? -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Charlotte Foust Sent: Friday, March 26, 2004 11:39 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] Lookup Fields in Table Design There is also the issue of TableID limits, which I believe include all the tables involved as lookups. Charlotte Foust From KIsmert at TexasSystems.com Fri Mar 26 14:36:42 2004 From: KIsmert at TexasSystems.com (Ken Ismert) Date: Fri, 26 Mar 2004 14:36:42 -0600 Subject: [AccessD] Lookup Fields in Table Design Message-ID: <004101c41372$0cda2940$2a3ca8c0@TEXASSYSTEMS.COM> Drew, Charlotte, all: To be entirely fair, I looked again at my test db, and found that a form based on the reference (non-lookup) table, using a lookup combo, produced roughly the same results as the form based on the table with lookup fields defined. So, I think we are laboring under different ideas of performance. Charlotte and I are correct in the sense that you carry the table lookup baggage in every query and form based on that table, whether you want it or not, unless you take steps to turn it off. This, I think, complicates the straightforward construction of queries, forms and reports. Drew is correct that there exists in Access a very complex and undocumented mechanism that will turn Off and On the table lookup feature, depending on its deduced context, which produces basically the same timed results in casual tests. This mechanism goes so far as to extend its reach from back to frontend. AFAIK, it is unique to Access. I think I have clearly demonstrated cases, both evidential and anecdotal, that show that this mechanism is not entirely trustworthy. I guess I am a reductionist in this regard. Take something, like a table, and strip it to its bare essentials. After all, parts you don't include will never fail or need repair. Then, where appropriate, add those parts in their proper context. Contrast this to the constructionist approach, which would add everything you could possibly need or want to the table, then turn around and strip out those parts where you don't need them, all the while trusting that this truly black box mechanism will magically provide you with the best performance. If you've done EVERYTHING correctly, you will probably get away with table lookup fields. This includes: using small, indexed lookup tables that don't grow; and appropriate indexes on all main tables. But without question, you've introduced needless fragility into your table design. Later on, if you change an index while tuning your table structures, you may find that the performance of some unrelated queries goes to crap, and I bet that the table lookup won't be the first thing that leaps to mind when trying to find the cause. Tell me, who in the general database community thinks this is a good idea? Please, show me the data modeling book that has a step that says "embed client-side UI elements in the table design". Looking beyond the uncertainty that table lookup fields introduce to the reliability of the backend, I honestly can't see how you are going to get ahead in the long run with it. It fills no functional niche that isn't covered by more standard, broadly accepted techniques. Finally, it is the little hassles that this feature consistently gives that have caused me to largely abandon it. -Ken From DWUTKA at marlow.com Fri Mar 26 14:38:59 2004 From: DWUTKA at marlow.com (DWUTKA at marlow.com) Date: Fri, 26 Mar 2004 14:38:59 -0600 Subject: [AccessD] Lookup Fields in Table Design Message-ID: <2F8793082E00D4119A1700B0D0216BF8022279DA@main2.marlow.com> Well put, three points for the score keeper...that puts you in second place! LOL Drew -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of John Bartow Sent: Friday, March 26, 2004 12:50 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] Lookup Fields in Table Design Charlotte, You'll find that most people are more strongly opinionated than I am (on many issues). While I may jest about starting flame wars, I really don't enjoy seeing people argue. However, I do enjoy seeing people debate an issue. Especially a group with as intelligent and capable people as we have here. There are many lists where one gets chastised for not conforming to the group mentality (most generally the "bully" of the group's mentality)- I don't stick around those lists very long - not because I can't take getting chastised but because there is really not much one can learn from people who think they have all of the answers for all eternity! And there is certainly little opportunity for me to "help" anyone in that situation. I do try to give back what I can on any list I am on (including directing people to this list). I question the status quo. I listen to all sides of an issue (and there are usually more than two sides). I make a decision. I recommend things based on informed decisions. I accept that not everyone is going to take my recommendations. I revisit my decisions on a regular basis to see if there are compelling reasons to change them. I believe this is why I am a very good "consultant". John PS: We'll just leave my capabilities as a "programmer" out of it! ;o) -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Charlotte Foust Sent: Friday, March 26, 2004 12:19 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] Lookup Fields in Table Design John, You are NOT getting into the spirit of this discussion. Reasonableness has no place here! Charlotte Foust -----Original Message----- From: John Bartow [mailto:john at winhaven.net] Sent: Friday, March 26, 2004 10:00 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] Lookup Fields in Table Design Here's a stretch but... For people that like to use the added form designing capabilites of the lookup property, once the table design and realtionships are complete you could set the desired lookup properties. Design all of the forms for the application. When the application design is complete you could run code that iterates the table collection and eliminates all lookup properties in the table design. This in essence would eliminate the corruption and performance issues. Eh? -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Charlotte Foust Sent: Friday, March 26, 2004 11:39 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] Lookup Fields in Table Design There is also the issue of TableID limits, which I believe include all the tables involved as lookups. Charlotte Foust -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From DWUTKA at marlow.com Fri Mar 26 14:46:04 2004 From: DWUTKA at marlow.com (DWUTKA at marlow.com) Date: Fri, 26 Mar 2004 14:46:04 -0600 Subject: [AccessD] Lookup Fields in Table Design Message-ID: <2F8793082E00D4119A1700B0D0216BF8022279DB@main2.marlow.com> Hit below the belt. Charlotte, back to your corner! LOL Actually, I think I'd rather be known as the Crusador of the Self Taughts. I like to challenge the 'bad practice' stuff a lot, because I have found that a lot (certainly not all) is based solely on developer limitations, not actually system limitations. If you look at the sides I have been on, I am rarely saying people MUST do something, but instead, they CAN do something, if they choose to. Like the bound/unbound debate. I was simply pointing out that there is nothing wrong with an unbound form. There are times where it is easier to use an unbound form. There are also times where it is easier to use a bound form. But saying that unbound forms are bad practice, or a waste of time, is not right (it doesn't apply to bound forms either). Also, like the original thread, Frameworks are handy. They aren't good for every situation, but they certainly can be useful in other situations. JC has done a superb job of bring light to the subject, and has written excellent code examples. I must admit I don't prefix my Class objects, and variables the same way, but if JC gave me code, and said it will do what it's supposed to, I would have absolute faith that it would. If JC needed me to write code for him, and said, 'hey, use my naming convention, and work within my framework', I would have no problem doing so. Then again, if JC said 'Drew, develop this, but don't use API's because their vauge and mysterious, and don't use indexing, because it'll bloat the database and it's just a lazy way for developers to speed up their applications, instead, roll your own indexing', I'd look at him like he was nuts! (Not picking on ya JC....LOL) Drew -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Charlotte Foust Sent: Friday, March 26, 2004 1:26 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] Lookup Fields in Table Design >>most generally the "bully" of the group's mentality Are you talking about Drew?? Charlotte Foust -----Original Message----- From: John Bartow [mailto:john at winhaven.net] Sent: Friday, March 26, 2004 10:50 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] Lookup Fields in Table Design Charlotte, You'll find that most people are more strongly opinionated than I am (on many issues). While I may jest about starting flame wars, I really don't enjoy seeing people argue. However, I do enjoy seeing people debate an issue. Especially a group with as intelligent and capable people as we have here. There are many lists where one gets chastised for not conforming to the group mentality (most generally the "bully" of the group's mentality)- I don't stick around those lists very long - not because I can't take getting chastised but because there is really not much one can learn from people who think they have all of the answers for all eternity! And there is certainly little opportunity for me to "help" anyone in that situation. I do try to give back what I can on any list I am on (including directing people to this list). I question the status quo. I listen to all sides of an issue (and there are usually more than two sides). I make a decision. I recommend things based on informed decisions. I accept that not everyone is going to take my recommendations. I revisit my decisions on a regular basis to see if there are compelling reasons to change them. I believe this is why I am a very good "consultant". John PS: We'll just leave my capabilities as a "programmer" out of it! ;o) -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Charlotte Foust Sent: Friday, March 26, 2004 12:19 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] Lookup Fields in Table Design John, You are NOT getting into the spirit of this discussion. Reasonableness has no place here! Charlotte Foust -----Original Message----- From: John Bartow [mailto:john at winhaven.net] Sent: Friday, March 26, 2004 10:00 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] Lookup Fields in Table Design Here's a stretch but... For people that like to use the added form designing capabilites of the lookup property, once the table design and realtionships are complete you could set the desired lookup properties. Design all of the forms for the application. When the application design is complete you could run code that iterates the table collection and eliminates all lookup properties in the table design. This in essence would eliminate the corruption and performance issues. Eh? -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Charlotte Foust Sent: Friday, March 26, 2004 11:39 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] Lookup Fields in Table Design There is also the issue of TableID limits, which I believe include all the tables involved as lookups. Charlotte Foust -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From DWUTKA at marlow.com Fri Mar 26 14:49:09 2004 From: DWUTKA at marlow.com (DWUTKA at marlow.com) Date: Fri, 26 Mar 2004 14:49:09 -0600 Subject: Lookup Fields: Was: RE: [AccessD] Fr@mework Discussion - set up q uestion Message-ID: <2F8793082E00D4119A1700B0D0216BF8022279DC@main2.marlow.com> But I still develop some Access FE's. And when I do, I DO use Lookups. I'm not arguing that you SHOULD use them, I am saying that there is isn't much there, to label them as 'bad'. Also, as far as bloat in Access FE's, I almost never have an issue with that. I do WAY too much stuff with code, which prevents almost all of the bloat issues I have seen other FE's have. (I'll definitely admit I am a code head....LOL) Drew -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Charlotte Foust Sent: Friday, March 26, 2004 1:50 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: Lookup Fields: Was: RE: [AccessD] Fr at mework Discussion - set up q uestion I think that's where some of the argument comes in, Drew. Those of us who work entirely in Access FEs have a different perspective on some of the things you discount. As for bloat, that is a major issue in Access FEs, since that's where all the queries execute and all the temporary queries cause the bloat. Charlotte Foust -----Original Message----- From: DWUTKA at marlow.com [mailto:DWUTKA at marlow.com] Sent: Friday, March 26, 2004 11:46 AM To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: RE: Lookup Fields: Was: RE: [AccessD] Fr at mework Discussion - set up q uestion If you get right down to it, MOST of my development is in VB 6 or ASP, for front ends, so Access forms aren't that big a deal for me. But I do develop Access FE's from time to time, and have yet to see the harm in using Lookups when necessary. Plus, with VB or ASP front ends, it's handy to go in and see the data. Putting lookups in, allows me to look at applicable information in the tables, instead of pk's, which have no real meaning to what I am looking for. (Most of the time. sometimes I do want to see the pks, so then I just turn the lookups off!) Drew -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Francisco H Tapia Sent: Friday, March 26, 2004 11:02 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: Lookup Fields: Was: RE: [AccessD] Fr at mework Discussion - set up q uestion DWUTKA at marlow.com said the following on 3/26/2004 8:38 AM: >Let me ask you a question though, because you and I have agreed on a >lot of other things before, so I'm a little shocked on your position on >this. If you have an Address table, (for US clients....for this >example), and you want to get the two letter state abbreviation, do you >simply give them a textbox, or do you give them a combo that builds >itself from a 'State' table? I go with the state table. And since I >may have multiple forms based on that table, I usually use a Lookup >field, so that when I build the form, that combo is predefined. > > This particular example is kind of bad (for me), because I try to create one form for one purpose, thus the data entry screen for addresses is done on one form, thus end users use the same form to add/edit addresses that require the combobox that points to a table of states. So yes, that's a lookup on the "FORM" not the base table. That has no point... so I have one need for the state combobox.. why build it at the table level? and I encourage for my users to type in the zipcode first so they don't usually search for states... :) -- -Francisco -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From DWUTKA at marlow.com Fri Mar 26 14:51:17 2004 From: DWUTKA at marlow.com (DWUTKA at marlow.com) Date: Fri, 26 Mar 2004 14:51:17 -0600 Subject: [AccessD] Lookup Fields in Table Design Message-ID: <2F8793082E00D4119A1700B0D0216BF8022279DD@main2.marlow.com> Just different experiences I guess. I've had locking files (in Word and Excel) go south more often then the actual document. Can't recall an .ldb locking issue. I have seen main doc corruption too, just more frequently (in what I have experienced), it was the locking file, which is a LOT easier to recover from! LOL. Drew -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Bryan Carbonnell Sent: Friday, March 26, 2004 1:53 PM To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: RE: [AccessD] Lookup Fields in Table Design I'll partially disagree with you on this point Drew. >The more common issues with Word and Excel are the 'locking' files >original document is more rare (but not unheard of...excel and word have to Corruption of the main doc is not more rare. I have had more Word doc go south on me than any type locking file or mdb or any other file. I have never heard of a locking file getting corrupt. I have never had an Excel doc go south, so I can't speak about which is more common in Excel. Bryan Carbonnell bryan_carbonnell at cbc.ca >>> DWUTKA at marlow.com 26-Mar-04 2:27:58 PM >>> file. The more common issues with Word and Excel are the 'locking' files. Something will goof in them, and then that file is locked out. Since Word/Excel is saving changes in those temp files, actual corruption in the original document is more rare (but not unheard of...excel and word have to update the original document when you save it, so that is when corruption can occur there). -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From DWUTKA at marlow.com Fri Mar 26 14:52:56 2004 From: DWUTKA at marlow.com (DWUTKA at marlow.com) Date: Fri, 26 Mar 2004 14:52:56 -0600 Subject: [AccessD] Lookup Fields in Table Design Message-ID: <2F8793082E00D4119A1700B0D0216BF8022279DE@main2.marlow.com> I know I can always count on you to stoke the fire when the embers seem to be settling! LOL Still waiting on the performance loss 'proof'. I thought my Callback function which delayed each row by a second would have nailed the coffin shut on that....apparently not. UGH. Drew -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Susan Harkins Sent: Friday, March 26, 2004 1:54 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: [AccessD] Lookup Fields in Table Design And this discussion becomes moot (isn't that the wording for such a situation you use "over there"?) ========Typical developer response. :) You assume the average user knows how to do that -- controls inherit the lookup field, so the user doesn't even need to bother -- it is already there! It isn't moot yet. ;) Susan H. -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From DWUTKA at marlow.com Fri Mar 26 14:56:23 2004 From: DWUTKA at marlow.com (DWUTKA at marlow.com) Date: Fri, 26 Mar 2004 14:56:23 -0600 Subject: [AccessD] Lookup Fields in Table Design Message-ID: <2F8793082E00D4119A1700B0D0216BF8022279DF@main2.marlow.com> I honestly don't know until testing it a lot, because like we both are saying, if it's only increase in size, due to the indexing space requirements, that the cost of a feature...yippie, and it's not much at that! However, if over time, you get small amounts used in temporary space, I still think it's a moot point on that, but it would technically be bloat. Not much though. Not like making massive temp tables, to show a report, instead of querying the data the right way. THAT, to me, is bloat. The querries might use a little space, but I always thought that JET kept that stuff out of the database.....no Mountain Dew at work right now though, so my brain is running low on caffiene, may be just making that part up! LOL Drew -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Susan Harkins Sent: Friday, March 26, 2004 1:57 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: [AccessD] Lookup Fields in Table Design VERY interesting. Have to give them half a point back, because there is a small amount of 'bloat', if you use a query/table for the lookup. But it's negligible, and also, both databases grow when you index the field, just grows a bit more. I would never really call that 'bloat'. Not trying to back track, but to me, bloat is when a database grows in size over time, but when compacted, it gets smaller. The portion that is 'reduced' is bloat. The portion left after the compact is 'overhead'. That's my definition. Admittedly, if you are going to run close to max db size, then lookups should be removed, to get that much more space. But we are talking overhead space, not really 'bloat'. ==============Wait!!!!!!!!!!! Is it true bloat, or just normal increase due to feature use. I mean, if you use it, it's going to cost something somewhere. So don't be so quick to label it -- but if it really bloat, then OK. :) Susan H. -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From ssharkins at bellsouth.net Fri Mar 26 15:03:02 2004 From: ssharkins at bellsouth.net (Susan Harkins) Date: Fri, 26 Mar 2004 16:03:02 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Lookup Fields in Table Design In-Reply-To: <13445341026.20040326212216@cactus.dk> Message-ID: <20040326210257.JRPL1763.imf25aec.mail.bellsouth.net@SUSANONE> You are right. I have yet to see a user using Access as a desktop application - they just don't understand what a relational database is - and I only deal with split database design. ==John, I guess Gustav has earned the nays a half point, just for politeness! ;) Susan H. From jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com Fri Mar 26 15:08:11 2004 From: jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com (John W. Colby) Date: Fri, 26 Mar 2004 16:08:11 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Lookup Fields in Table Design In-Reply-To: <2F8793082E00D4119A1700B0D0216BF8022279DB@main2.marlow.com> Message-ID: >'Drew, develop this, but don't use API's because their vauge and mysterious, and don't use indexing, because it'll bloat the database and it's just a lazy way for developers to speed up their applications, instead, roll your own indexing', I'd look at him like he was nuts! If I said that I would hope that you would slap me around a bit. John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of DWUTKA at marlow.com Sent: Friday, March 26, 2004 3:46 PM To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: RE: [AccessD] Lookup Fields in Table Design Hit below the belt. Charlotte, back to your corner! LOL Actually, I think I'd rather be known as the Crusador of the Self Taughts. I like to challenge the 'bad practice' stuff a lot, because I have found that a lot (certainly not all) is based solely on developer limitations, not actually system limitations. If you look at the sides I have been on, I am rarely saying people MUST do something, but instead, they CAN do something, if they choose to. Like the bound/unbound debate. I was simply pointing out that there is nothing wrong with an unbound form. There are times where it is easier to use an unbound form. There are also times where it is easier to use a bound form. But saying that unbound forms are bad practice, or a waste of time, is not right (it doesn't apply to bound forms either). Also, like the original thread, Frameworks are handy. They aren't good for every situation, but they certainly can be useful in other situations. JC has done a superb job of bring light to the subject, and has written excellent code examples. I must admit I don't prefix my Class objects, and variables the same way, but if JC gave me code, and said it will do what it's supposed to, I would have absolute faith that it would. If JC needed me to write code for him, and said, 'hey, use my naming convention, and work within my framework', I would have no problem doing so. Then again, if JC said 'Drew, develop this, but don't use API's because their vauge and mysterious, and don't use indexing, because it'll bloat the database and it's just a lazy way for developers to speed up their applications, instead, roll your own indexing', I'd look at him like he was nuts! (Not picking on ya JC....LOL) Drew From ssharkins at bellsouth.net Fri Mar 26 15:07:19 2004 From: ssharkins at bellsouth.net (Susan Harkins) Date: Fri, 26 Mar 2004 16:07:19 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Lookup Fields in Table Design In-Reply-To: <2F8793082E00D4119A1700B0D0216BF8022279DE@main2.marlow.com> Message-ID: <20040326210714.JTGU1763.imf25aec.mail.bellsouth.net@SUSANONE> I know I can always count on you to stoke the fire when the embers seem to be settling! LOL ============Me? I am SO misunderstood! ;) Susan H. From dmcafee at pacbell.net Fri Mar 26 15:08:32 2004 From: dmcafee at pacbell.net (David McAfee (Home)) Date: Fri, 26 Mar 2004 13:08:32 -0800 Subject: [AccessD] Lookup Fields in Table Design In-Reply-To: <2F8793082E00D4119A1700B0D0216BF8022279D7@main2.marlow.com> Message-ID: No Drew, its more like you shouldn't use bound forms, only unbound! :P David -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of DWUTKA at marlow.com Sent: Friday, March 26, 2004 12:29 PM To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: RE: [AccessD] Lookup Fields in Table Design And like I said to Gustav, that is EXACTLY why I got into this thread. You can't really understand something, if you can't challenge stuff with a 'why not?'. And if the answer doesn't really wash, you need to drill down until you find the real 'why not', or until you find that you 'can'. It's like the SendKeys issue. Yes, Sendkeys has a bug, which causes the Numlock key to change state. WAY too many people say that you should NEVER use the SendKeys statement, unless it's a dire emergency. From ssharkins at bellsouth.net Fri Mar 26 15:11:04 2004 From: ssharkins at bellsouth.net (Susan Harkins) Date: Fri, 26 Mar 2004 16:11:04 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Lookup Fields in Table Design In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <20040326211100.JUVT1763.imf25aec.mail.bellsouth.net@SUSANONE> OK, I relinquish my position as main troublemaker. Obviously, I have been outmaneuvered. :) Susan H. No Drew, its more like you shouldn't use bound forms, only unbound! :P David From jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com Fri Mar 26 15:23:46 2004 From: jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com (John W. Colby) Date: Fri, 26 Mar 2004 16:23:46 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Lookup Fields in Table Design In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Hey!!! And frameworks are useless too I suppose? John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of David McAfee (Home) Sent: Friday, March 26, 2004 4:09 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] Lookup Fields in Table Design No Drew, its more like you shouldn't use bound forms, only unbound! :P David -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of DWUTKA at marlow.com Sent: Friday, March 26, 2004 12:29 PM To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: RE: [AccessD] Lookup Fields in Table Design And like I said to Gustav, that is EXACTLY why I got into this thread. You can't really understand something, if you can't challenge stuff with a 'why not?'. And if the answer doesn't really wash, you need to drill down until you find the real 'why not', or until you find that you 'can'. It's like the SendKeys issue. Yes, Sendkeys has a bug, which causes the Numlock key to change state. WAY too many people say that you should NEVER use the SendKeys statement, unless it's a dire emergency. -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From DWUTKA at marlow.com Fri Mar 26 15:22:26 2004 From: DWUTKA at marlow.com (DWUTKA at marlow.com) Date: Fri, 26 Mar 2004 15:22:26 -0600 Subject: [AccessD] Lookup Fields in Table Design Message-ID: <2F8793082E00D4119A1700B0D0216BF8022279E0@main2.marlow.com> It's nitty gritty, but it does the job: On Error Resume Next Dim db As Database Dim tblTemp As TableDef Dim fld As Field Set db = CurrentDb For Each tblTemp In db.TableDefs For Each fld In tblTemp.Fields If fld.Properties("DisplayControl") <> 109 Then If Err = 0 Then fld.Properties("DisplayControl").Value = 109 Else Err.Clear End If End If Next Next Set db = Nothing Drew -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Ken Ismert Sent: Friday, March 26, 2004 2:33 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: [AccessD] Lookup Fields in Table Design McCool. If you have code that does that, I'd love to see it. -Ken -----Original Message----- From: John Bartow [mailto:john at winhaven.net] Sent: Friday, March 26, 2004 12:00 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] Lookup Fields in Table Design Here's a stretch but... For people that like to use the added form designing capabilites of the lookup property, once the table design and realtionships are complete you could set the desired lookup properties. Design all of the forms for the application. When the application design is complete you could run code that iterates the table collection and eliminates all lookup properties in the table design. This in essence would eliminate the corruption and performance issues. Eh? -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Charlotte Foust Sent: Friday, March 26, 2004 11:39 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] Lookup Fields in Table Design There is also the issue of TableID limits, which I believe include all the tables involved as lookups. Charlotte Foust -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From Developer at UltraDNT.com Fri Mar 26 16:13:20 2004 From: Developer at UltraDNT.com (Developer) Date: Fri, 26 Mar 2004 17:13:20 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] OT: Hard Drives, RAID, backup setup Message-ID: <000501c4137f$914e2b10$6401a8c0@COA3> I have had a massive hardware failure (50 gigs gone bad, only 75% backed up), and am thinking about moving to a RAID setup. Anyone have any specific recommendations on setup? I have a Win 2k server, but don't use a domain; there are 4 of us in my house on the LAN, but I'm ususally logged in on a few devices - let's call it 10 users max; just use the lan as p2p, with file sharing. Dedicate a machine to this task? Let everyone save to C:\, automate back-ups overnight? Or point everyone's MyDocuments to a network share, and bakup that ? On and on ... Any preferred hardware brands? it was a Maxtor that failed - nervously runnign off another one now? Tia4aa (thanks in advance for any adivce) Steve From DWUTKA at marlow.com Fri Mar 26 16:13:34 2004 From: DWUTKA at marlow.com (DWUTKA at marlow.com) Date: Fri, 26 Mar 2004 16:13:34 -0600 Subject: [AccessD] Lookup Fields in Table Design Message-ID: <2F8793082E00D4119A1700B0D0216BF8022279E2@main2.marlow.com> ROTFLMAOTHMHOTDIUD (That's 'rolling on the floor laughing my a$$ off, then hitting my head on the desk in utter dispair'). Okay, let's see, you have just proven to yourself that there is no performance degradation...what you had before was a fluke. Yes, you and Charlotte are correct that some indexing is added to speed up the lookup process, which does NOT affect querrying the actual data in the main table. (Going to get to why in a minute) It's not a complex and undocumented mechanism. It's actually VERY simple, and it is in the help files (just looked). It's a property of the field in the tabledefs. (Look up DisplayControl Property in the help files). That defines what the DEFAULT CONTROL is for the table. By default, it's 109, which is a textbox. However, change that to a Listbox or Combobox, and there are deeper properties which tell it how to build the 'default control', when you go to build a form. Nothing mysterious so far. It also explains why setting the limit to list property DOESN'T affect data entry of that field when you use code, or you use something OTHER then the default control (or either change the type, or change the properties of that control on a form.). It doesn't affect that, BECAUSE it's a property that is only looked at by the Wizards, NOT by Jet, when retrieving the data. Now, when it builds the indexes, JET does look at it, to determine if it needs to add indexes to help the listbox. This is a guess, but I would be willing to bet, that what it is adding, is a quick index reference to show what the 'displayed' data for that field is. Which is no more indexing, then if you just went and created the relationship in the first place! Let's drill a bit deeper, cause I'm on a roll. All actual data operations are completely ignorant of the 'default' control. It's used by the wizards, and it's also used by the datasheet view, but ONLY for looking at the data. You're premise that it degrades performance is off, because you are assuming that since it runs a query, that for some VERY weird reason, that it would run that query for every record, instead of running it whenever a field is entered into. Do combo boxes on a continuous form run their rowsource for every record displayed on their form? NO, in fact, that can be a problem with continuous forms, if you need to have a different source based on a value within that record. (Which was a thread from not too long ago). This of course doesn't mean that continuous forms are useless, what it does mean, is that if you look at the behavior and results between a table's datasheet view, and a form's continuous form view, you'll see that they act the same way. You are only getting the 'lookup' properties when the data is DISPLAYED (and in combo/listbox, they are only run when that field is ENTERED). Why? Another simple answer. Because even though a table is just data, the Datasheet view of a table is a little bit MORE then just the raw data, in fact, it's a simple BOUND form. The Caption field displays on the first row. Does the Datasheet view 'reference' the Caption property for every record it displays? No, of course not, it looks at the table definition, get's the properties, and creates the matrix necessary to display the data. SAME THING with the DefaultControl property. When it builds the matrix, just like with a continuous form, it creates a column of comboboxes, which all share the same source. Not only the same source, but the EXACT same results. And now a little deeper. Is the only option for a lookup field a combo or listbox? Nope, in fact, Textbox is an option. It's the default, so we are just calling a field a Lookup field if it has a combo or a listbox set. But in reality, it's a property of ALL fields, whether you use them or not. But you can also have a checkbox as the default. It of course is the default for a yes/no field. But if you want the Yes/No field to display as 'Yes', 'No', instead of a box with a check in it, then you go to the Lookup tab, and switch the default control to TEXTBOX. You can ALSO select ComboBox for Yes/No fields. (Male/Female, Child/Adult, Moron/Genius). I wouldn't be at all surprised, if you could fanangle a toggle switch in there. LOL. So we aren't looking at some 'mysterious' mechanism, that no one but the almighty Microsoft knows about. We are talking about easily accessible FIELD PROPERTIES! In reality, you aren't avoiding their use, you use them whether you like it or not, you just aren't changing their value. As for your 'Data Modeling books' comment, you should really ask how many I have read, and then ask how many complaints I've had on performance of my databases. The answer would be zip and (almost) zip (not perfect! LOL). I am not hacking the books, they put out good information. The 'database' community is made up of a lot of smart people. But this is just one of those things where the mob mentality took something to heart, which was done over preference, NOT fact. Took an MIS course at a local university, and missed a question on a test, when it asked what a relational database developer calls a record. It was multiple choice and it didn't have 'record' as an answer. Because, AS a relational database developer, I call my records, records If you really want to have your educational foundation shaken a bit (to realize that not everything written down is law), find someone taking courses like that (like MIS). Now, is it me, or is there something wrong, when I get tested to know that a File is a table, a tuple is a record, but when I went to do my 'ACCESS' homework, my spine shivered, because they required that the field names, and the db object names have SPACES in them. That they didn't normalize their data, and they absolutely went the long way around doing things? Does that make any sense? Unfortunately it does. Understanding how something works, is completely different from memorizing definitions, and/or instructions. It is far more difficult to teach concepts, and actual understanding, then it is to give out definitions and step by step instructions. As for your reductionist view, wouldn't that make you an unbounder? LOL. Sorry, had to add that. I don't go in and add things willy nilly. I do set the values (of properties that are there whether you want them or not), to a value that I find accomodating for my needs. Same with my forms. If I look at what I need the form to do, and say, well, that certainly fits within the bound form guides, I use a bound form. If I say, 'Up, nope, can't do that with a bound form', then I go with an unbound form. Boy, I'm really stoking the fire right now. Finally, how can you say there's uncertainty? It's a property! It's not smoke and mirrors! Arg...... Drew -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Ken Ismert Sent: Friday, March 26, 2004 2:37 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: [AccessD] Lookup Fields in Table Design Drew, Charlotte, all: To be entirely fair, I looked again at my test db, and found that a form based on the reference (non-lookup) table, using a lookup combo, produced roughly the same results as the form based on the table with lookup fields defined. So, I think we are laboring under different ideas of performance. Charlotte and I are correct in the sense that you carry the table lookup baggage in every query and form based on that table, whether you want it or not, unless you take steps to turn it off. This, I think, complicates the straightforward construction of queries, forms and reports. Drew is correct that there exists in Access a very complex and undocumented mechanism that will turn Off and On the table lookup feature, depending on its deduced context, which produces basically the same timed results in casual tests. This mechanism goes so far as to extend its reach from back to frontend. AFAIK, it is unique to Access. I think I have clearly demonstrated cases, both evidential and anecdotal, that show that this mechanism is not entirely trustworthy. I guess I am a reductionist in this regard. Take something, like a table, and strip it to its bare essentials. After all, parts you don't include will never fail or need repair. Then, where appropriate, add those parts in their proper context. Contrast this to the constructionist approach, which would add everything you could possibly need or want to the table, then turn around and strip out those parts where you don't need them, all the while trusting that this truly black box mechanism will magically provide you with the best performance. If you've done EVERYTHING correctly, you will probably get away with table lookup fields. This includes: using small, indexed lookup tables that don't grow; and appropriate indexes on all main tables. But without question, you've introduced needless fragility into your table design. Later on, if you change an index while tuning your table structures, you may find that the performance of some unrelated queries goes to crap, and I bet that the table lookup won't be the first thing that leaps to mind when trying to find the cause. Tell me, who in the general database community thinks this is a good idea? Please, show me the data modeling book that has a step that says "embed client-side UI elements in the table design". Looking beyond the uncertainty that table lookup fields introduce to the reliability of the backend, I honestly can't see how you are going to get ahead in the long run with it. It fills no functional niche that isn't covered by more standard, broadly accepted techniques. Finally, it is the little hassles that this feature consistently gives that have caused me to largely abandon it. -Ken -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From DWUTKA at marlow.com Fri Mar 26 16:19:41 2004 From: DWUTKA at marlow.com (DWUTKA at marlow.com) Date: Fri, 26 Mar 2004 16:19:41 -0600 Subject: [AccessD] Lookup Fields in Table Design Message-ID: <2F8793082E00D4119A1700B0D0216BF8022279E3@main2.marlow.com> Ooops, just went back and looked. I indexed different fields between the two databases. Going back, and setting the indexes the same, caused both databases (the one with a combo, and the one without the combo for the Defaultcontrol) to be the exact same size again. Go figure. Went back and checked, because it didn't make sense to have more data in there, since it's only creating a relationship, a soft one that that! Drew -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Susan Harkins Sent: Friday, March 26, 2004 1:57 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: [AccessD] Lookup Fields in Table Design VERY interesting. Have to give them half a point back, because there is a small amount of 'bloat', if you use a query/table for the lookup. But it's negligible, and also, both databases grow when you index the field, just grows a bit more. I would never really call that 'bloat'. Not trying to back track, but to me, bloat is when a database grows in size over time, but when compacted, it gets smaller. The portion that is 'reduced' is bloat. The portion left after the compact is 'overhead'. That's my definition. Admittedly, if you are going to run close to max db size, then lookups should be removed, to get that much more space. But we are talking overhead space, not really 'bloat'. ==============Wait!!!!!!!!!!! Is it true bloat, or just normal increase due to feature use. I mean, if you use it, it's going to cost something somewhere. So don't be so quick to label it -- but if it really bloat, then OK. :) Susan H. -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From DWUTKA at marlow.com Fri Mar 26 16:20:45 2004 From: DWUTKA at marlow.com (DWUTKA at marlow.com) Date: Fri, 26 Mar 2004 16:20:45 -0600 Subject: [AccessD] Lookup Fields in Table Design Message-ID: <2F8793082E00D4119A1700B0D0216BF8022279E4@main2.marlow.com> Oh definitely, with a REALLY BIG stick. Unless of course we were drinking, then I would know you were kidding around, and I'd just buy you another beer! LOL Drew -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of John W. Colby Sent: Friday, March 26, 2004 3:08 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] Lookup Fields in Table Design >'Drew, develop this, but don't use API's because their vauge and mysterious, and don't use indexing, because it'll bloat the database and it's just a lazy way for developers to speed up their applications, instead, roll your own indexing', I'd look at him like he was nuts! If I said that I would hope that you would slap me around a bit. John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of DWUTKA at marlow.com Sent: Friday, March 26, 2004 3:46 PM To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: RE: [AccessD] Lookup Fields in Table Design Hit below the belt. Charlotte, back to your corner! LOL Actually, I think I'd rather be known as the Crusador of the Self Taughts. I like to challenge the 'bad practice' stuff a lot, because I have found that a lot (certainly not all) is based solely on developer limitations, not actually system limitations. If you look at the sides I have been on, I am rarely saying people MUST do something, but instead, they CAN do something, if they choose to. Like the bound/unbound debate. I was simply pointing out that there is nothing wrong with an unbound form. There are times where it is easier to use an unbound form. There are also times where it is easier to use a bound form. But saying that unbound forms are bad practice, or a waste of time, is not right (it doesn't apply to bound forms either). Also, like the original thread, Frameworks are handy. They aren't good for every situation, but they certainly can be useful in other situations. JC has done a superb job of bring light to the subject, and has written excellent code examples. I must admit I don't prefix my Class objects, and variables the same way, but if JC gave me code, and said it will do what it's supposed to, I would have absolute faith that it would. If JC needed me to write code for him, and said, 'hey, use my naming convention, and work within my framework', I would have no problem doing so. Then again, if JC said 'Drew, develop this, but don't use API's because their vauge and mysterious, and don't use indexing, because it'll bloat the database and it's just a lazy way for developers to speed up their applications, instead, roll your own indexing', I'd look at him like he was nuts! (Not picking on ya JC....LOL) Drew -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From DWUTKA at marlow.com Fri Mar 26 16:29:09 2004 From: DWUTKA at marlow.com (DWUTKA at marlow.com) Date: Fri, 26 Mar 2004 16:29:09 -0600 Subject: [AccessD] Lookup Fields in Table Design Message-ID: <2F8793082E00D4119A1700B0D0216BF8022279E5@main2.marlow.com> LOL. I am an unbounder. Doesn't mean I don't use bound forms, I just find that most of what I do fits the unbound world a lot better. Let's not get this one rolling again. It was pretty much agreed last time that both methods have their time/place/usage. Neither is better, and neither is a 'bad practice'. Now if we could just get there with these lookup fields! LOL Drew -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of David McAfee (Home) Sent: Friday, March 26, 2004 3:09 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] Lookup Fields in Table Design No Drew, its more like you shouldn't use bound forms, only unbound! :P David -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of DWUTKA at marlow.com Sent: Friday, March 26, 2004 12:29 PM To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: RE: [AccessD] Lookup Fields in Table Design And like I said to Gustav, that is EXACTLY why I got into this thread. You can't really understand something, if you can't challenge stuff with a 'why not?'. And if the answer doesn't really wash, you need to drill down until you find the real 'why not', or until you find that you 'can'. It's like the SendKeys issue. Yes, Sendkeys has a bug, which causes the Numlock key to change state. WAY too many people say that you should NEVER use the SendKeys statement, unless it's a dire emergency. -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From DWUTKA at marlow.com Fri Mar 26 16:32:16 2004 From: DWUTKA at marlow.com (DWUTKA at marlow.com) Date: Fri, 26 Mar 2004 16:32:16 -0600 Subject: [AccessD] OT: Hard Drives, RAID, backup setup Message-ID: <2F8793082E00D4119A1700B0D0216BF8022279E6@main2.marlow.com> If you can, put in 3 SCSI drives, and set the raid up on those. I am running a RAID 5 on 2 SCSI's and an IDE. No real issues, until I wiped out my OS (whoops). Long story. However, if you are just looking for reliability, and don't want to go scsi, I would go with plain mirrors (RAID 0). The problem with a RAID 5 on IDE, is that you only have 2 IDE channels, so even though you can put 4 IDE hard drives in a machine, it's really to shared couples, so mirroring with a parity (RAID 5) across three of them is going to be a real performance degradation. However, mirroring between two drives, on different channels, will work just fine. Drew -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Developer Sent: Friday, March 26, 2004 4:13 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: [AccessD] OT: Hard Drives, RAID, backup setup I have had a massive hardware failure (50 gigs gone bad, only 75% backed up), and am thinking about moving to a RAID setup. Anyone have any specific recommendations on setup? I have a Win 2k server, but don't use a domain; there are 4 of us in my house on the LAN, but I'm ususally logged in on a few devices - let's call it 10 users max; just use the lan as p2p, with file sharing. Dedicate a machine to this task? Let everyone save to C:\, automate back-ups overnight? Or point everyone's MyDocuments to a network share, and bakup that ? On and on ... Any preferred hardware brands? it was a Maxtor that failed - nervously runnign off another one now? Tia4aa (thanks in advance for any adivce) Steve -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From carbonnb at sympatico.ca Fri Mar 26 17:27:27 2004 From: carbonnb at sympatico.ca (Bryan Carbonnell) Date: Fri, 26 Mar 2004 18:27:27 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Lookup Fields in Table Design In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <4064760F.18387.42F029@localhost> On 26 Mar 2004 at 16:23, John W. Colby wrote: > Hey!!! And frameworks are useless too I suppose? Just remember. *You* said it. We didn't. >:-) -- Bryan Carbonnell - carbonnb at sympatico.ca Inside every older person is a younger person -- wondering what the hell happened. - Cora Harvey Armstrong From jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com Fri Mar 26 17:32:42 2004 From: jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com (John W. Colby) Date: Fri, 26 Mar 2004 18:32:42 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Lookup Fields in Table Design In-Reply-To: <2F8793082E00D4119A1700B0D0216BF8022279E5@main2.marlow.com> Message-ID: >It was pretty much agreed last time that both methods have their time/place/usage. Neither is better, and neither is a 'bad practice'. I don't remember agreeing to that. I seem to remember that unbounders were unholy and should be banished to the new world. John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of DWUTKA at marlow.com Sent: Friday, March 26, 2004 5:29 PM To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: RE: [AccessD] Lookup Fields in Table Design LOL. I am an unbounder. Doesn't mean I don't use bound forms, I just find that most of what I do fits the unbound world a lot better. Let's not get this one rolling again. It was pretty much agreed last time that both methods have their time/place/usage. Neither is better, and neither is a 'bad practice'. Now if we could just get there with these lookup fields! LOL Drew -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of David McAfee (Home) Sent: Friday, March 26, 2004 3:09 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] Lookup Fields in Table Design No Drew, its more like you shouldn't use bound forms, only unbound! :P David -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of DWUTKA at marlow.com Sent: Friday, March 26, 2004 12:29 PM To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: RE: [AccessD] Lookup Fields in Table Design And like I said to Gustav, that is EXACTLY why I got into this thread. You can't really understand something, if you can't challenge stuff with a 'why not?'. And if the answer doesn't really wash, you need to drill down until you find the real 'why not', or until you find that you 'can'. It's like the SendKeys issue. Yes, Sendkeys has a bug, which causes the Numlock key to change state. WAY too many people say that you should NEVER use the SendKeys statement, unless it's a dire emergency. -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From DWUTKA at marlow.com Fri Mar 26 17:42:54 2004 From: DWUTKA at marlow.com (DWUTKA at marlow.com) Date: Fri, 26 Mar 2004 17:42:54 -0600 Subject: [AccessD] Lookup Fields in Table Design Message-ID: <2F8793082E00D4119A1700B0D0216BF8022279E9@main2.marlow.com> ROTFLMAO! Okay JC. Let's not start up with that again! Drew -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of John W. Colby Sent: Friday, March 26, 2004 5:33 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] Lookup Fields in Table Design >It was pretty much agreed last time that both methods have their time/place/usage. Neither is better, and neither is a 'bad practice'. I don't remember agreeing to that. I seem to remember that unbounders were unholy and should be banished to the new world. John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of DWUTKA at marlow.com Sent: Friday, March 26, 2004 5:29 PM To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: RE: [AccessD] Lookup Fields in Table Design LOL. I am an unbounder. Doesn't mean I don't use bound forms, I just find that most of what I do fits the unbound world a lot better. Let's not get this one rolling again. It was pretty much agreed last time that both methods have their time/place/usage. Neither is better, and neither is a 'bad practice'. Now if we could just get there with these lookup fields! LOL Drew -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of David McAfee (Home) Sent: Friday, March 26, 2004 3:09 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] Lookup Fields in Table Design No Drew, its more like you shouldn't use bound forms, only unbound! :P David -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of DWUTKA at marlow.com Sent: Friday, March 26, 2004 12:29 PM To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: RE: [AccessD] Lookup Fields in Table Design And like I said to Gustav, that is EXACTLY why I got into this thread. You can't really understand something, if you can't challenge stuff with a 'why not?'. And if the answer doesn't really wash, you need to drill down until you find the real 'why not', or until you find that you 'can'. It's like the SendKeys issue. Yes, Sendkeys has a bug, which causes the Numlock key to change state. WAY too many people say that you should NEVER use the SendKeys statement, unless it's a dire emergency. -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From DWUTKA at marlow.com Fri Mar 26 17:43:26 2004 From: DWUTKA at marlow.com (DWUTKA at marlow.com) Date: Fri, 26 Mar 2004 17:43:26 -0600 Subject: [AccessD] Lookup Fields in Table Design Message-ID: <2F8793082E00D4119A1700B0D0216BF8022279EA@main2.marlow.com> Ouch, just goes to show, you REALLY have to watch what you say around here! Drew -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Bryan Carbonnell Sent: Friday, March 26, 2004 5:27 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] Lookup Fields in Table Design On 26 Mar 2004 at 16:23, John W. Colby wrote: > Hey!!! And frameworks are useless too I suppose? Just remember. *You* said it. We didn't. >:-) -- Bryan Carbonnell - carbonnb at sympatico.ca Inside every older person is a younger person -- wondering what the hell happened. - Cora Harvey Armstrong -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From wdhindman at bellsouth.net Fri Mar 26 17:45:03 2004 From: wdhindman at bellsouth.net (William Hindman) Date: Fri, 26 Mar 2004 18:45:03 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Access & Word Documents References: <4867326.1080316543038.JavaMail.www@wwinf3006> Message-ID: <009b01c4138c$5c4d3750$6101a8c0@dejpolsys> http://www.helenfeddema.com/ ...if that doesn't do it, e me off list and I'll copy you some of the code modules I use. William Hindman ipsedixitism: something is true because I myself have said it is true ...the philosophy of Noam Chomsky :) ----- Original Message ----- From: To: "accessd" Sent: Friday, March 26, 2004 10:55 AM Subject: [AccessD] Access & Word Documents To all, We currently have an Access Database one part of which contains Employee records. We also have several Word document templates (i.e. Holiday & Sickness forms etc). What we would like to be able to do is insert the employees name and address etc into the Word templates. How would I go about putting the employees address directly into the word document at a specific point. Has anyone any samples that I may view etc. Thanks in advance for all your help. Paul Hartland Freeserve AnyTime - HALF PRICE for the first 3 months - Save ?7.50 a month www.freeserve.com/anytime -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From Jim.Hale at FleetPride.com Fri Mar 26 17:47:25 2004 From: Jim.Hale at FleetPride.com (Hale, Jim) Date: Fri, 26 Mar 2004 17:47:25 -0600 Subject: [AccessD] Access & Word Documents Message-ID: <6A6AA9DF57E4F046BDA1E273BDDB677201AB3E@corp-es01.fleetpride.com> http://www.helenfeddema.com/CodeSamples.htm Check Helen's site, about halfway down Jim Hale -----Original Message----- From: paul.hartland at fsmail.net [mailto:paul.hartland at fsmail.net] Sent: Friday, March 26, 2004 9:56 AM To: accessd Subject: [AccessD] Access & Word Documents To all, We currently have an Access Database one part of which contains Employee records. We also have several Word document templates (i.e. Holiday & Sickness forms etc). What we would like to be able to do is insert the employees name and address etc into the Word templates. How would I go about putting the employees address directly into the word document at a specific point. Has anyone any samples that I may view etc. Thanks in advance for all your help. Paul Hartland Freeserve AnyTime - HALF PRICE for the first 3 months - Save ?7.50 a month www.freeserve.com/anytime -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From ssharkins at bellsouth.net Fri Mar 26 17:49:14 2004 From: ssharkins at bellsouth.net (Susan Harkins) Date: Fri, 26 Mar 2004 18:49:14 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Lookup Fields in Table Design In-Reply-To: <2F8793082E00D4119A1700B0D0216BF8022279E9@main2.marlow.com> Message-ID: <20040326234910.XQHD1775.imf19aec.mail.bellsouth.net@SUSANONE> I want to know why he's still here... And not in the new world... ;) Susan H. ROTFLMAO! Okay JC. Let's not start up with that again! From djkr at msn.com Fri Mar 26 17:50:18 2004 From: djkr at msn.com (DJK(John) Robinson) Date: Fri, 26 Mar 2004 23:50:18 -0000 Subject: [AccessD] OT: Hard Drives, RAID, backup setup In-Reply-To: <2F8793082E00D4119A1700B0D0216BF8022279E6@main2.marlow.com> Message-ID: <004001c4138d$17f2a170$bf00a8c0@dabsight> Plain mirror is RAID 1, isn't it? And you can always go to SATA these days, up to 8 drives on a PCI card - given the right PCI interface - RAID 0, 1, 5, 10 or JBOD. John > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of > DWUTKA at marlow.com > Sent: 26 March 2004 22:32 > To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com > Subject: RE: [AccessD] OT: Hard Drives, RAID, backup setup > > > If you can, put in 3 SCSI drives, and set the raid up on > those. I am running a RAID 5 on 2 SCSI's and an IDE. No > real issues, until I wiped out my OS (whoops). Long story. > > However, if you are just looking for reliability, and don't > want to go scsi, I would go with plain mirrors (RAID 0). The > problem with a RAID 5 on IDE, is that you only have 2 IDE > channels, so even though you can put 4 IDE hard drives in a > machine, it's really to shared couples, so mirroring with a > parity (RAID 5) across three of them is going to be a real > performance degradation. However, mirroring between two > drives, on different channels, will work just fine. > > Drew > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Developer > Sent: Friday, March 26, 2004 4:13 PM > To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' > Subject: [AccessD] OT: Hard Drives, RAID, backup setup > > > I have had a massive hardware failure (50 gigs gone bad, only > 75% backed up), and am thinking about moving to a RAID setup. > Anyone have any specific recommendations on setup? I have a > Win 2k server, but don't use a domain; there are 4 of us in > my house on the LAN, but I'm ususally logged in on a few > devices - let's call it 10 users max; just use the lan as > p2p, with file sharing. Dedicate a machine to this task? Let > everyone save to C:\, automate back-ups overnight? Or point > everyone's MyDocuments to a network share, and bakup that ? > On and on ... > > Any preferred hardware brands? it was a Maxtor that failed - > nervously runnign off another one now? > > > Tia4aa > (thanks in advance for any adivce) > Steve > > > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > From carbonnb at sympatico.ca Fri Mar 26 17:59:24 2004 From: carbonnb at sympatico.ca (Bryan Carbonnell) Date: Fri, 26 Mar 2004 18:59:24 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Lookup Fields in Table Design In-Reply-To: <2F8793082E00D4119A1700B0D0216BF8022279EA@main2.marlow.com> Message-ID: <40647D8C.16581.603190@localhost> On 26 Mar 2004 at 17:43, DWUTKA at marlow.com wrote: > Ouch, just goes to show, you REALLY have to watch what you say around > here! Hey, what can I say. It's Friday and the kids are off to Nana's house for the weekend -- Bryan Carbonnell - carbonnb at sympatico.ca Tell me what you need, and I'll tell you how to get along without it. From Developer at UltraDNT.com Fri Mar 26 19:34:27 2004 From: Developer at UltraDNT.com (Developer) Date: Fri, 26 Mar 2004 20:34:27 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] OT: Hard Drives, RAID, backup setup In-Reply-To: <004001c4138d$17f2a170$bf00a8c0@dabsight> Message-ID: <000001c4139b$a79e6210$6401a8c0@COA3> Whoa! 8 drives is over-kill. I had to look up what SATA is ... 3 drives is the most I would think necessary here ... My tolerance is a day's work, I guess, although the mdb that went bad last night with an hour of new work in it mad me scream >:O (the import of all objects into a new mdb worked, luckily) Let's say available budget is about 1K right now (I guess that should have been stated from the start!) Steve -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of DJK(John) Robinson Sent: Friday, March 26, 2004 6:50 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: [AccessD] OT: Hard Drives, RAID, backup setup Plain mirror is RAID 1, isn't it? And you can always go to SATA these days, up to 8 drives on a PCI card - given the right PCI interface - RAID 0, 1, 5, 10 or JBOD. John > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of > DWUTKA at marlow.com > Sent: 26 March 2004 22:32 > To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com > Subject: RE: [AccessD] OT: Hard Drives, RAID, backup setup > > > If you can, put in 3 SCSI drives, and set the raid up on > those. I am running a RAID 5 on 2 SCSI's and an IDE. No > real issues, until I wiped out my OS (whoops). Long story. > > However, if you are just looking for reliability, and don't > want to go scsi, I would go with plain mirrors (RAID 0). The > problem with a RAID 5 on IDE, is that you only have 2 IDE > channels, so even though you can put 4 IDE hard drives in a > machine, it's really to shared couples, so mirroring with a > parity (RAID 5) across three of them is going to be a real > performance degradation. However, mirroring between two > drives, on different channels, will work just fine. > > Drew > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Developer > Sent: Friday, March 26, 2004 4:13 PM > To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' > Subject: [AccessD] OT: Hard Drives, RAID, backup setup > > > I have had a massive hardware failure (50 gigs gone bad, only > 75% backed up), and am thinking about moving to a RAID setup. > Anyone have any specific recommendations on setup? I have a > Win 2k server, but don't use a domain; there are 4 of us in > my house on the LAN, but I'm ususally logged in on a few > devices - let's call it 10 users max; just use the lan as > p2p, with file sharing. Dedicate a machine to this task? Let > everyone save to C:\, automate back-ups overnight? Or point > everyone's MyDocuments to a network share, and bakup that ? > On and on ... > > Any preferred hardware brands? it was a Maxtor that failed - > nervously runnign off another one now? > > > Tia4aa > (thanks in advance for any adivce) > Steve > > > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From KIsmert at TexasSystems.com Fri Mar 26 19:35:33 2004 From: KIsmert at TexasSystems.com (Ken Ismert) Date: Fri, 26 Mar 2004 19:35:33 -0600 Subject: [AccessD] Lookup Fields in Table Design In-Reply-To: <2F8793082E00D4119A1700B0D0216BF8022279E2@main2.marlow.com> Message-ID: <006401c4139b$cc6423f0$2a3ca8c0@TEXASSYSTEMS.COM> You seem to be making more noise than actual rebuttal. First, show me at least *one* unique feature that server-side, table-level field lookups gives me, that can't be duplicated using more broadly accepted techniques. Show me some intrinsic value. Second, if you throw a grain of sand in the water, it doesn't make a ripple. So it is with this feature. The database community at large hasn't looked at table field lookups and said "Hot damn! let's break the client-server model and embed client UI elements in tables! Comboboxes, subforms ... hell ... let's stuff entire forms in there, complete with underlying code!". So you have a query, which inherits all this stuff, and you drag it all over from the server so you can open ... a report. When you take this line of reasoning to its logical conclusion, its easy to see that this whole thing goes against the standard, accepted way that database applications are constructed. Data in this bucket. App in this other bucket. Since you didn't refute the 'constructionist' bit, I assume that's what you're admitting you are: throw in the kitchen sink, hope it helps, hope you catch all the places it doesn't, and where you miss things, hope it doesn't bite you. Puh-lease. Lets look at some what you say more closely: >It doesn't affect that, BECAUSE it's a property that is only >looked at by the Wizards, NOT by Jet, when retrieving the data. Its used in queries too. Queries inherit this stuff from the table they are based on. >Now, when it builds the indexes, JET does look at it, to determine >if it needs to add indexes to help the listbox. This is a guess, >but I would be willing to bet, that what it is adding, is a quick >index reference to show what the 'displayed' data for that field is. >-Which is no more indexing, then if you just went and created the >relationship in the first place! Jet never spontaneously adds table indexes. If so, you would be able to see them in the table definition after thay had been created. Temporary indexes would be very expensive to create and then throw away. Prove your assertions. Thats all I have time for now. More later. -Ken From stuart at lexacorp.com.pg Fri Mar 26 20:26:07 2004 From: stuart at lexacorp.com.pg (Stuart McLachlan) Date: Sat, 27 Mar 2004 12:26:07 +1000 Subject: [AccessD] Lookup Fields in Table Design In-Reply-To: <006401c4139b$cc6423f0$2a3ca8c0@TEXASSYSTEMS.COM> References: <2F8793082E00D4119A1700B0D0216BF8022279E2@main2.marlow.com> Message-ID: <406572DF.12892.A02D3F@localhost> On 26 Mar 2004 at 19:35, Ken Ismert wrote: > > >It doesn't affect that, BECAUSE it's a property that is only > >looked at by the Wizards, NOT by Jet, when retrieving the data. > > Its used in queries too. Queries inherit this stuff from the table they are > based on. > Queries don't use it. The object which Access uses to display the results of queries does. If I pull a "Select * from tblMyTable", my recordset doesn't know anything about the combobox bound to fldMyLookup - or about any table used for the lookup on that field. If however, I use the Query Datasheet to display it, the datasheet will look at the table definition to determine how it is displayed by default (which can be overwritten by defining a different display format in the query grid itself). In essence, the lookup property(ies) of a field in a table are no different to the Format, and Caption properties. They are used to define the *default* way that the data in the table is displayed in the GUI. You can overwrite this default in any query grid, form control, report control that you create. It has nothing to do with how a recordset is actually retreived by Jet. -- Lexacorp Ltd http://www.lexacorp.com.pg Information Technology Consultancy, Software Development,System Support. From jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com Fri Mar 26 20:30:34 2004 From: jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com (John W. Colby) Date: Fri, 26 Mar 2004 21:30:34 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] OT: Hard Drives, RAID, backup setup In-Reply-To: <000001c4139b$a79e6210$6401a8c0@COA3> Message-ID: >Let's say available budget is about 1K right now (I guess that should have been stated from the start!) Hell, with 1K for a budget you can have (8) 120 gb SATA hard disks. http://www.newegg.com/app/ViewProductDesc.asp?description=22-152-017&depa=0 A 64 bit PCI 8 port SATA controller with Raid 0,1,5, and 10. (use raid 5) http://www.newegg.com/app/ViewProductDesc.asp?description=16-115-019&depa=0& section=1 And a pretty good article on the whole raid thing. http://www4.tomshardware.com/storage/20031114/index.html Nothing like a terrabyte of hard disk to keep ya for awhile. Of course you might need a new chassis and PS to hold the thing. ;-) John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Developer Sent: Friday, March 26, 2004 8:34 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: [AccessD] OT: Hard Drives, RAID, backup setup Whoa! 8 drives is over-kill. I had to look up what SATA is ... 3 drives is the most I would think necessary here ... My tolerance is a day's work, I guess, although the mdb that went bad last night with an hour of new work in it mad me scream >:O (the import of all objects into a new mdb worked, luckily) Let's say available budget is about 1K right now (I guess that should have been stated from the start!) Steve From ssharkins at bellsouth.net Fri Mar 26 21:37:21 2004 From: ssharkins at bellsouth.net (Susan Harkins) Date: Fri, 26 Mar 2004 22:37:21 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Lookup Fields in Table Design In-Reply-To: <406572DF.12892.A02D3F@localhost> Message-ID: <20040327033719.JUEP1709.imf20aec.mail.bellsouth.net@SUSANONE> In essence, the lookup property(ies) of a field in a table are no different to the Format, and Caption properties. They are used to define the *default* way that the data in the table is displayed in the GUI. You can overwrite this default in any query grid, form control, report control that you create. It has nothing to do with how a recordset is actually retreived by Jet. ===========Absolutely true, as I understand them. Lookup field properties are implemented at the Access level, via user-defined field properties. There's no difference between a lookup field and any other field. As I've said many times now, they're a GUI trick -- one that users can quickly and efficiently enable with little to no other knowledge. Susan H. From jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com Fri Mar 26 21:53:17 2004 From: jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com (John W. Colby) Date: Fri, 26 Mar 2004 22:53:17 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Lookup Fields in Table Design In-Reply-To: <20040327033719.JUEP1709.imf20aec.mail.bellsouth.net@SUSANONE> Message-ID: The real answer to this is to just shoot all users. Problem solved! John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Susan Harkins Sent: Friday, March 26, 2004 10:37 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: [AccessD] Lookup Fields in Table Design In essence, the lookup property(ies) of a field in a table are no different to the Format, and Caption properties. They are used to define the *default* way that the data in the table is displayed in the GUI. You can overwrite this default in any query grid, form control, report control that you create. It has nothing to do with how a recordset is actually retreived by Jet. ===========Absolutely true, as I understand them. Lookup field properties are implemented at the Access level, via user-defined field properties. There's no difference between a lookup field and any other field. As I've said many times now, they're a GUI trick -- one that users can quickly and efficiently enable with little to no other knowledge. Susan H. -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From ssharkins at bellsouth.net Fri Mar 26 23:43:43 2004 From: ssharkins at bellsouth.net (Susan Harkins) Date: Sat, 27 Mar 2004 00:43:43 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Lookup Fields in Table Design In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <20040327054341.DEJS1715.imf16aec.mail.bellsouth.net@SUSANONE> Ah.... to get paid for the sake of art... ;) Susan H. The real answer to this is to just shoot all users. Problem solved! From stuart at lexacorp.com.pg Fri Mar 26 23:58:52 2004 From: stuart at lexacorp.com.pg (Stuart McLachlan) Date: Sat, 27 Mar 2004 15:58:52 +1000 Subject: [AccessD] Printing BarCode readable labels In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <4065A4BC.16087.162F40A@localhost> On 29 Jan 2002 at 12:56, Stephen Bond wrote: > Has anyone had any experience in Printing BarCode readable > labels from Access? Can you point me to some resources ... > thanks. > I've done a bit. For all you ever wanted to know about how barcodes are constructed take a look at http://www.barcode-1.com If you just want to create your own internal codes, you can just instal a Code39 or Code128 font and create them very simply. It's just a case of putting a text box in a report, setting the font and doing a miminal amout of formatting. If you want to use UPC or EAN barcodes, it gets quite a bit more tricky. You can find some info about one system to do this at http://www.idautomation.com/components.html -- Lexacorp Ltd http://www.lexacorp.com.pg Information Technology Consultancy, Software Development,System Support. From wdhindman at bellsouth.net Sat Mar 27 00:44:50 2004 From: wdhindman at bellsouth.net (William Hindman) Date: Sat, 27 Mar 2004 01:44:50 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Lookup Fields in Table Design References: Message-ID: <004801c413c7$00a72470$6101a8c0@dejpolsys> ...at long, long, long, long last!!!! ...a post in this endless, angels on a pinhead, thread that actually would produce a positive result in my workday world :))))))))) ...thank god that Fridays usually kill the unkillable threads of the past week :((( William Hindman ipsedixitism: something is true because I myself have said it is true ...the philosophy of Noam Chomsky :) ----- Original Message ----- From: "John W. Colby" To: "Access Developers discussion and problem solving" Sent: Friday, March 26, 2004 10:53 PM Subject: RE: [AccessD] Lookup Fields in Table Design > The real answer to this is to just shoot all users. Problem solved! > > John W. Colby > www.ColbyConsulting.com From paul.hartland at fsmail.net Sat Mar 27 03:25:47 2004 From: paul.hartland at fsmail.net (paul.hartland at fsmail.net) Date: Sat, 27 Mar 2004 10:25:47 +0100 (CET) Subject: [AccessD] Access & Word Documents Message-ID: <2725933.1080379547550.JavaMail.www@wwinf3005> Thanks for everyones help on this, I think I may be able to work my way through now. I love this list.. Paul Message date : Mar 26 2004, 11:49 PM >From : "Hale, Jim" To : "'Access Developers discussion and problem solving'" Copy to : Subject : RE: [AccessD] Access & Word Documents http://www.helenfeddema.com/CodeSamples.htm Check Helen's site, about halfway down Jim Hale -----Original Message----- From: paul.hartland at fsmail.net [mailto:paul.hartland at fsmail.net] Sent: Friday, March 26, 2004 9:56 AM To: accessd Subject: [AccessD] Access & Word Documents To all, We currently have an Access Database one part of which contains Employee records. We also have several Word document templates (i.e. Holiday & Sickness forms etc). What we would like to be able to do is insert the employees name and address etc into the Word templates. How would I go about putting the employees address directly into the word document at a specific point. Has anyone any samples that I may view etc. Thanks in advance for all your help. Paul Hartland Freeserve AnyTime - HALF PRICE for the first 3 months - Save ?7.50 a month www.freeserve.com/anytime -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com Freeserve AnyTime - HALF PRICE for the first 3 months - Save ?7.50 a month www.freeserve.com/anytime From jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com Sat Mar 27 05:52:15 2004 From: jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com (John W. Colby) Date: Sat, 27 Mar 2004 06:52:15 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Lookup Fields in Table Design In-Reply-To: <20040327054341.DEJS1715.imf16aec.mail.bellsouth.net@SUSANONE> Message-ID: I guess considering what I have seen passed off as art, we could call yours.... uhhh..... Never mind. ;-) John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Susan Harkins Sent: Saturday, March 27, 2004 12:44 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: [AccessD] Lookup Fields in Table Design Ah.... to get paid for the sake of art... ;) Susan H. The real answer to this is to just shoot all users. Problem solved! -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From ssharkins at bellsouth.net Sat Mar 27 08:41:52 2004 From: ssharkins at bellsouth.net (Susan Harkins) Date: Sat, 27 Mar 2004 09:41:52 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Lookup Fields in Table Design In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <20040327144147.SRGI1729.imf24aec.mail.bellsouth.net@SUSANONE> Hmmmmmm.... You suggest we shoot users, which means of course, we have no one to pay us for our work... And I was simply thinking a loud -- it would be nice to get paid for what we do without having to actually consider those we do it for. If you thought I was insulting you, I'm sorry, because I wasn't. Susan H. I guess considering what I have seen passed off as art, we could call yours.... uhhh..... Never mind. ;-) John W. Colby From accessd at shaw.ca Sat Mar 27 11:39:20 2004 From: accessd at shaw.ca (Jim Lawrence (AccessD)) Date: Sat, 27 Mar 2004 09:39:20 -0800 Subject: [AccessD] 1st Anglo-Australian DBA Conference In-Reply-To: <4065A4BC.16087.162F40A@localhost> Message-ID: Hi All: The 1st Anglo-Australian DBA Conference was held a short while ago. It may have been small but it is a start. www.databaseadvisors.com Jim From DWUTKA at marlow.com Sat Mar 27 11:58:50 2004 From: DWUTKA at marlow.com (DWUTKA at marlow.com) Date: Sat, 27 Mar 2004 11:58:50 -0600 Subject: [AccessD] Lookup Fields in Table Design Message-ID: <2F8793082E00D4119A1700B0D0216BF8022279EB@main2.marlow.com> Thank you! I was beginning to think that I was talking to a wall there. Everything I have tested shows that the DefaultControl property does absolutely nothing to how JET retrieves data, and only slightly affects how JET stores data (because it does setup a relationship, if you have an ID field with a lookup of a related table. But it's no more 'work' then if you just set the relationship up in the database, in the first place. All I'm getting from Ken is, 'It's just not standard practice, so it must be bad'. Ugh. Drew -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Sent: 3/26/04 8:26 PM Subject: RE: [AccessD] Lookup Fields in Table Design On 26 Mar 2004 at 19:35, Ken Ismert wrote: > > >It doesn't affect that, BECAUSE it's a property that is only > >looked at by the Wizards, NOT by Jet, when retrieving the data. > > Its used in queries too. Queries inherit this stuff from the table they are > based on. > Queries don't use it. The object which Access uses to display the results of queries does. If I pull a "Select * from tblMyTable", my recordset doesn't know anything about the combobox bound to fldMyLookup - or about any table used for the lookup on that field. If however, I use the Query Datasheet to display it, the datasheet will look at the table definition to determine how it is displayed by default (which can be overwritten by defining a different display format in the query grid itself). In essence, the lookup property(ies) of a field in a table are no different to the Format, and Caption properties. They are used to define the *default* way that the data in the table is displayed in the GUI. You can overwrite this default in any query grid, form control, report control that you create. It has nothing to do with how a recordset is actually retreived by Jet. -- Lexacorp Ltd http://www.lexacorp.com.pg Information Technology Consultancy, Software Development,System Support. -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From DWUTKA at marlow.com Sat Mar 27 11:59:51 2004 From: DWUTKA at marlow.com (DWUTKA at marlow.com) Date: Sat, 27 Mar 2004 11:59:51 -0600 Subject: [AccessD] OT: Hard Drives, RAID, backup setup Message-ID: <2F8793082E00D4119A1700B0D0216BF8022279EC@main2.marlow.com> Haven't had my coffee yet, but I thought RAID 0 was a mirror, and RAID 1 was a stripe. I'm a little groggy, so if you can't find it on google somewhere, and really want to know, I'll go look it up. Drew -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Sent: 3/26/04 5:50 PM Subject: RE: [AccessD] OT: Hard Drives, RAID, backup setup Plain mirror is RAID 1, isn't it? And you can always go to SATA these days, up to 8 drives on a PCI card - given the right PCI interface - RAID 0, 1, 5, 10 or JBOD. John > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of > DWUTKA at marlow.com > Sent: 26 March 2004 22:32 > To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com > Subject: RE: [AccessD] OT: Hard Drives, RAID, backup setup > > > If you can, put in 3 SCSI drives, and set the raid up on > those. I am running a RAID 5 on 2 SCSI's and an IDE. No > real issues, until I wiped out my OS (whoops). Long story. > > However, if you are just looking for reliability, and don't > want to go scsi, I would go with plain mirrors (RAID 0). The > problem with a RAID 5 on IDE, is that you only have 2 IDE > channels, so even though you can put 4 IDE hard drives in a > machine, it's really to shared couples, so mirroring with a > parity (RAID 5) across three of them is going to be a real > performance degradation. However, mirroring between two > drives, on different channels, will work just fine. > > Drew > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Developer > Sent: Friday, March 26, 2004 4:13 PM > To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' > Subject: [AccessD] OT: Hard Drives, RAID, backup setup > > > I have had a massive hardware failure (50 gigs gone bad, only > 75% backed up), and am thinking about moving to a RAID setup. > Anyone have any specific recommendations on setup? I have a > Win 2k server, but don't use a domain; there are 4 of us in > my house on the LAN, but I'm ususally logged in on a few > devices - let's call it 10 users max; just use the lan as > p2p, with file sharing. Dedicate a machine to this task? Let > everyone save to C:\, automate back-ups overnight? Or point > everyone's MyDocuments to a network share, and bakup that ? > On and on ... > > Any preferred hardware brands? it was a Maxtor that failed - > nervously runnign off another one now? > > > Tia4aa > (thanks in advance for any adivce) > Steve > > > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From gustav at cactus.dk Sat Mar 27 12:01:09 2004 From: gustav at cactus.dk (Gustav Brock) Date: Sat, 27 Mar 2004 19:01:09 +0100 Subject: [AccessD] 1st Anglo-Australian DBA Conference In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <8729197113.20040327190109@cactus.dk> Hi Jim Small, you bet ... no announcement was made. 1st Secret DBA Conference? How do one know when the next will take place? (You guessed it: you won't!) Anyway, nice to see you abandoned the terrible Foster beer - probably (you can't tell from the picture) in favour of the high-quality domestic wine! /gustav > The 1st Anglo-Australian DBA Conference was held a short while ago. It may > have been small but it is a start. www.databaseadvisors.com > Jim From DWUTKA at marlow.com Sat Mar 27 12:05:00 2004 From: DWUTKA at marlow.com (DWUTKA at marlow.com) Date: Sat, 27 Mar 2004 12:05:00 -0600 Subject: [AccessD] Lookup Fields in Table Design Message-ID: <2F8793082E00D4119A1700B0D0216BF8022279ED@main2.marlow.com> Ken, once again, you aren't reading what I posted. Querries DO NOT care what the DefaultControl property is. Only the interface that you use to view a query with does. Okay, a unique feature. I create an .mdb, to store data for a multiple UI system. The UI's are ASP, and VB. Now, every once in a while, I jump into the backend, to see how things are going. I open up a few tables, here and there, and just take a look. No need for forms, no extra time wasted doing anything other then looking at the tables in datasheet view. However, instead of seeing 'meaningless' ID's, I can see what they actually represent, (and here's the catch)....IN THE TABLE'S DATASHEET VIEW. You just cannot do that with any other approach. Sure, you may mimic it, you may jump up and down, and dance around, but it is just too plain and simple to not use when you want too. Other then the benefit I receive, there is no other affect of having those fields set as lookups. NONE. (Still haven't seen a true performance issue presented by you yet!) Drew -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Sent: 3/26/04 7:35 PM Subject: RE: [AccessD] Lookup Fields in Table Design You seem to be making more noise than actual rebuttal. First, show me at least *one* unique feature that server-side, table-level field lookups gives me, that can't be duplicated using more broadly accepted techniques. Show me some intrinsic value. Second, if you throw a grain of sand in the water, it doesn't make a ripple. So it is with this feature. The database community at large hasn't looked at table field lookups and said "Hot damn! let's break the client-server model and embed client UI elements in tables! Comboboxes, subforms ... hell ... let's stuff entire forms in there, complete with underlying code!". So you have a query, which inherits all this stuff, and you drag it all over from the server so you can open ... a report. When you take this line of reasoning to its logical conclusion, its easy to see that this whole thing goes against the standard, accepted way that database applications are constructed. Data in this bucket. App in this other bucket. Since you didn't refute the 'constructionist' bit, I assume that's what you're admitting you are: throw in the kitchen sink, hope it helps, hope you catch all the places it doesn't, and where you miss things, hope it doesn't bite you. Puh-lease. Lets look at some what you say more closely: >It doesn't affect that, BECAUSE it's a property that is only >looked at by the Wizards, NOT by Jet, when retrieving the data. Its used in queries too. Queries inherit this stuff from the table they are based on. >Now, when it builds the indexes, JET does look at it, to determine >if it needs to add indexes to help the listbox. This is a guess, >but I would be willing to bet, that what it is adding, is a quick >index reference to show what the 'displayed' data for that field is. >-Which is no more indexing, then if you just went and created the >relationship in the first place! Jet never spontaneously adds table indexes. If so, you would be able to see them in the table definition after thay had been created. Temporary indexes would be very expensive to create and then throw away. Prove your assertions. Thats all I have time for now. More later. -Ken -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From DWUTKA at marlow.com Sat Mar 27 12:06:19 2004 From: DWUTKA at marlow.com (DWUTKA at marlow.com) Date: Sat, 27 Mar 2004 12:06:19 -0600 Subject: [AccessD] Lookup Fields in Table Design Message-ID: <2F8793082E00D4119A1700B0D0216BF8022279EE@main2.marlow.com> Once again, we're in complete agreement JC! LOL Drew -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Sent: 3/26/04 9:53 PM Subject: RE: [AccessD] Lookup Fields in Table Design The real answer to this is to just shoot all users. Problem solved! John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Susan Harkins Sent: Friday, March 26, 2004 10:37 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: [AccessD] Lookup Fields in Table Design In essence, the lookup property(ies) of a field in a table are no different to the Format, and Caption properties. They are used to define the *default* way that the data in the table is displayed in the GUI. You can overwrite this default in any query grid, form control, report control that you create. It has nothing to do with how a recordset is actually retreived by Jet. ===========Absolutely true, as I understand them. Lookup field properties are implemented at the Access level, via user-defined field properties. There's no difference between a lookup field and any other field. As I've said many times now, they're a GUI trick -- one that users can quickly and efficiently enable with little to no other knowledge. Susan H. -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From DWUTKA at marlow.com Sat Mar 27 12:08:03 2004 From: DWUTKA at marlow.com (DWUTKA at marlow.com) Date: Sat, 27 Mar 2004 12:08:03 -0600 Subject: [AccessD] Lookup Fields in Table Design Message-ID: <2F8793082E00D4119A1700B0D0216BF8022279EF@main2.marlow.com> Well William, what do YOU think of changing the values of the DefaultControl property for a field in a table's design? Drew -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Sent: 3/27/04 12:44 AM Subject: Re: [AccessD] Lookup Fields in Table Design ...at long, long, long, long last!!!! ...a post in this endless, angels on a pinhead, thread that actually would produce a positive result in my workday world :))))))))) ...thank god that Fridays usually kill the unkillable threads of the past week :((( William Hindman ipsedixitism: something is true because I myself have said it is true ...the philosophy of Noam Chomsky :) ----- Original Message ----- From: "John W. Colby" To: "Access Developers discussion and problem solving" Sent: Friday, March 26, 2004 10:53 PM Subject: RE: [AccessD] Lookup Fields in Table Design > The real answer to this is to just shoot all users. Problem solved! > > John W. Colby > www.ColbyConsulting.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From gustav at cactus.dk Sat Mar 27 12:13:23 2004 From: gustav at cactus.dk (Gustav Brock) Date: Sat, 27 Mar 2004 19:13:23 +0100 Subject: [AccessD] OT: Hard Drives, RAID, backup setup In-Reply-To: <2F8793082E00D4119A1700B0D0216BF8022279EC@main2.marlow.com> References: <2F8793082E00D4119A1700B0D0216BF8022279EC@main2.marlow.com> Message-ID: <16629930808.20040327191323@cactus.dk> Hi Drew > Haven't had my coffee yet, but I thought RAID 0 was a mirror, and RAID 1 was > a stripe. I'm a little groggy, so if you can't find it on google somewhere, > and really want to know, I'll go look it up. Nope - you certainly miss both the coffee and the orange juice: http://www.arstechnica.com/paedia/r/raid-1.html http://www.arstechnica.com/paedia/r/raid-2.html Also, RAID 0-1 and 1-0: http://www.ofb.net/~jheiss/raid10/ /gustav > Plain mirror is RAID 1, isn't it? > And you can always go to SATA these days, up to 8 drives on a PCI card - > given the right PCI interface - RAID 0, 1, 5, 10 or JBOD. From wdhindman at bellsouth.net Sat Mar 27 13:26:41 2004 From: wdhindman at bellsouth.net (William Hindman) Date: Sat, 27 Mar 2004 14:26:41 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Lookup Fields in Table Design References: <2F8793082E00D4119A1700B0D0216BF8022279EF@main2.marlow.com> Message-ID: <001801c41431$6e899580$6101a8c0@dejpolsys> ...I don't think about it ...ever ...gives me migraines ...like this thread ...:((((((((( ...what I think about is shooting the entire freaking Access development team at MS who have now released ANOTHER major service pack without fixing the freaking bloat problem that has existed since the release of XP ...I'm getting damned tired of creating new dbs to import existing ones into just to get rid of the freaking bloat that compact/repair doesn't ...WTFO??? William Hindman ipsedixitism: something is true because I myself have said it is true ...the philosophy of Noam Chomsky :) ----- Original Message ----- From: To: ; Sent: Saturday, March 27, 2004 1:08 PM Subject: RE: [AccessD] Lookup Fields in Table Design > Well William, what do YOU think of changing the values of the DefaultControl > property for a field in a table's design? > > Drew > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Sent: 3/27/04 12:44 AM > Subject: Re: [AccessD] Lookup Fields in Table Design > > ...at long, long, long, long last!!!! > > ...a post in this endless, angels on a pinhead, thread that actually > would > produce a positive result in my workday world :))))))))) > > ...thank god that Fridays usually kill the unkillable threads of the > past > week :((( > > William Hindman > ipsedixitism: something is true because I myself have said it is true > ...the > philosophy of Noam Chomsky :) > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "John W. Colby" > To: "Access Developers discussion and problem solving" > > Sent: Friday, March 26, 2004 10:53 PM > Subject: RE: [AccessD] Lookup Fields in Table Design > > > > The real answer to this is to just shoot all users. Problem solved! > > > > John W. Colby > > www.ColbyConsulting.com > > > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > From wdhindman at bellsouth.net Sat Mar 27 13:31:20 2004 From: wdhindman at bellsouth.net (William Hindman) Date: Sat, 27 Mar 2004 14:31:20 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] 1st Anglo-Australian DBA Conference References: <8729197113.20040327190109@cactus.dk> Message-ID: <001f01c41432$150e5e40$6101a8c0@dejpolsys> ...btw, who the heck is the Rocky Somlin at www.databaseadvisors.com eh? ...couldn't be a reference to the King of OT ...he'd have someone's head! :( William Hindman ipsedixitism: something is true because I myself have said it is true ...the philosophy of Noam Chomsky :) ----- Original Message ----- From: "Gustav Brock" To: "Access Developers discussion and problem solving" Sent: Saturday, March 27, 2004 1:01 PM Subject: Re: [AccessD] 1st Anglo-Australian DBA Conference > Hi Jim > > Small, you bet ... no announcement was made. > 1st Secret DBA Conference? > How do one know when the next will take place? > (You guessed it: you won't!) > > Anyway, nice to see you abandoned the terrible Foster beer - probably > (you can't tell from the picture) in favour of the high-quality > domestic wine! > > /gustav > > > > The 1st Anglo-Australian DBA Conference was held a short while ago. It may > > have been small but it is a start. www.databaseadvisors.com > > > Jim > > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > From gustav at cactus.dk Sat Mar 27 13:41:41 2004 From: gustav at cactus.dk (Gustav Brock) Date: Sat, 27 Mar 2004 20:41:41 +0100 Subject: [AccessD] 1st Anglo-Australian DBA Conference In-Reply-To: <001f01c41432$150e5e40$6101a8c0@dejpolsys> References: <8729197113.20040327190109@cactus.dk> <001f01c41432$150e5e40$6101a8c0@dejpolsys> Message-ID: <7035229597.20040327204141@cactus.dk> Hi William - or the "im(materialized?) Lawrence"?? /gustav > ...btw, who the heck is the Rocky Somlin at www.databaseadvisors.com eh? > ...couldn't be a reference to the King of OT ...he'd have someone's head! :( > William Hindman > ipsedixitism: something is true because I myself have said it is true ...the > philosophy of Noam Chomsky :) > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Gustav Brock" > To: "Access Developers discussion and problem solving" > > Sent: Saturday, March 27, 2004 1:01 PM > Subject: Re: [AccessD] 1st Anglo-Australian DBA Conference >> Hi Jim >> >> Small, you bet ... no announcement was made. >> 1st Secret DBA Conference? >> How do one know when the next will take place? >> (You guessed it: you won't!) >> >> Anyway, nice to see you abandoned the terrible Foster beer - probably >> (you can't tell from the picture) in favour of the high-quality >> domestic wine! >> >> /gustav >> >> >> > The 1st Anglo-Australian DBA Conference was held a short while ago. It may >> > have been small but it is a start. www.databaseadvisors.com >> >> > Jim From jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com Sat Mar 27 15:05:35 2004 From: jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com (John W. Colby) Date: Sat, 27 Mar 2004 16:05:35 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Lookup Fields in Table Design In-Reply-To: <20040327144147.SRGI1729.imf24aec.mail.bellsouth.net@SUSANONE> Message-ID: And if you thought I was tongue-in-cheek insulting you. I WAS!. ;-) John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Susan Harkins Sent: Saturday, March 27, 2004 9:42 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: [AccessD] Lookup Fields in Table Design Hmmmmmm.... You suggest we shoot users, which means of course, we have no one to pay us for our work... And I was simply thinking a loud -- it would be nice to get paid for what we do without having to actually consider those we do it for. If you thought I was insulting you, I'm sorry, because I wasn't. Susan H. I guess considering what I have seen passed off as art, we could call yours.... uhhh..... Never mind. ;-) John W. Colby -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From john at winhaven.net Sat Mar 27 15:16:51 2004 From: john at winhaven.net (John Bartow) Date: Sat, 27 Mar 2004 15:16:51 -0600 Subject: [AccessD] Lookup Fields in Table Design In-Reply-To: <2F8793082E00D4119A1700B0D0216BF8022279D1@main2.marlow.com> Message-ID: Yes, so I will now change: "Data goes into black box - gets corrupted - data doesn't come out of black box." To: "Data goes into gray box - gets corrupted - data doesn't come out of gray box." ;o) It did help though explain the issue sayers regain +.5 Score: nay-sayers 4 / sayers 8 John -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of DWUTKA at marlow.com Sent: Friday, March 26, 2004 1:28 PM To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: RE: [AccessD] Lookup Fields in Table Design I'm shocked. I used Dev's site quite a bit, when I started out with Access. I really admire a lot of what he has done. However, I think a lot of what he has about Lookup Fields on there are wrong. I just changed my test, from a simple State lookup, to a StateID --> StateName setup. Added an ID (autonumber) field to tblStates, and then updated the data in my 'main' table to have the ID's, instead of the abbreviation. Then I switched it to a number field. I then copied the database again, and switched the copy to be a lookup field for the StateID. Compacted both (a little over 200,000 records in both), and NO difference in size. Without indexing... querying is the same speed, with indexing, the querying is still the same speed. However, I now noticed a difference in size, with a lookup field, when the field is indexed. That is definitely interesting. However, that goes away, if you use a callback function. VERY interesting. Have to give them half a point back, because there is a small amount of 'bloat', if you use a query/table for the lookup. But it's negligible, and also, both databases grow when you index the field, just grows a bit more. I would never really call that 'bloat'. Not trying to back track, but to me, bloat is when a database grows in size over time, but when compacted, it gets smaller. The portion that is 'reduced' is bloat. The portion left after the compact is 'overhead'. That's my definition. Admittedly, if you are going to run close to max db size, then lookups should be removed, to get that much more space. But we are talking overhead space, not really 'bloat'. As far as the compacting issue, that's another story. Microsoft has several good reasons for not releasing the inner workings of JET. First of all, there is the licensing issue. If you developed a software package you wanted people to buy, would you give anyone the source? Of course not. If MS gave out the inner workings of JET, it wouldn't be long until Access was unnecessary, because people would just roll their own JET engine. Another reason is support. Jet does a lot of stuff, so even if they did hand out the detailed specs, one little slip, and even a good developer could seriously fry an .mdb. There is nothing mysterious about corruption. It's usually easy to explain, and in most cases is fixable. What you must remember, is that file corruption is NOT limited to .mdb's. It can happen in any type of file. The difference between Access and other file types, however, is what makes it seem like more of an issue. A few years ago, our network was in a serious state of disrepair. We had file corruptions all over the place. That included Word and Excel files, and definitely included .mdb's. A file is nothing more then a series of bytes. With a bad network, flaky hard drive, corrupted OS, (and a million other reasons), it certainly is not impossible to goof a few bytes here and there. Now, depending on what kind of file it is, and what that file does, is going to determine how the corruption affects things. Take, for example, an .exe or .dll. Those files contain CPU instructions. Have you ever had a program start crashing on you? After an Uninstall and reinstall, everything is working again. A lot of times that is due to a file corruption. One corrupted (changed) byte in a .dll or .exe, and you are now changing how the CPU deals with that code. All sorts of things can happen. However, in something like and HTML file, HTML is designed to ignore what it doesn't understand, so it's nearly impossible to have normal file corruption do any real 'damage' to an HMTL file. The more common issues with Word and Excel are the 'locking' files. Something will goof in them, and then that file is locked out. Since Word/Excel is saving changes in those temp files, actual corruption in the original document is more rare (but not unheard of...excel and word have to update the original document when you save it, so that is when corruption can occur there). With an .mdb file, JET is monitoring who has what locked, is reading/updating indexes, reading/updating data, etc. A lot of activity in one file. The .ldb file is only storing who's logged in (and it is also used for locks within the .mdb, but other then the who's logged in, no other data is being changed in the .ldb, only locking bytes). Get a goofed byte in the mix, and things can either continue, go seriously awry, or somewhere in between. just depends what was affected. A lot of time, the corruption is simply someone's machine not 'closing' out of the database correctly. That is easily repaired. But if bytes are corrupted in the indexes, the table definitions, or in the code, that is something the system doesn't know how to 'replace', because it doesn't have a 'template' or 'starting point' to replace it with. As far as I know, the ONLY design issue KNOWN to corrupt a database, happens to lie with a problem between JET and Foxpro. Something about the differences between how JET deals with Memo fields, and Foxpro deals with them. Access does NOT corrupt .mdb's, it is an outside influence that does that. That is a VERY important concept to remember. Because of that, there are NO features within Access that will corrupt a database. (Yes, a feature could be programmed wrong, but Microsoft would eventually fix that with a service pack, because a self corrupting database system won't sell....). Recovering from a corruption all depends on where the corruption actually lies, which is not entirely blind luck. Since most corruption issues are only put into affect when a database is being read/locked/written, what you are reading/writing is usually going to be the place where the corruption lies. So it could be data within a table, table defs, indexes, code, etc. Practically everything used within a database. So not only are all database features designed to NOT corrupt the database, but they are also all prone to fail, if file corruption does occur. On top of that, all features have their own quirks as to the difficulties of recovering. Corruption in the data isn't too bad, since you'll just get a bad record or two. Corruption in code is more difficult, because it will probably lock up quite a bit of the code, but that can be returned. Corruption within a tabledef, or index can affect whether the data is easily retrievable, since JET uses them when retrieving it. Hope that clears up some of the mystery for you. Drew -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of John Bartow Sent: Friday, March 26, 2004 10:39 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] Lookup Fields in Table Design Hi Drew, Don't misunderstand me, your points are well taken, and you have my utmost respect as a developer/programmer. Corruption is just a hot spot on my psyche. If I knew HOW it was caused it would be different and that's the issue - apparently no one (including M$) does or they would prevent it. Even when considering that M$ allows some things to happen/not happen as a bone thrown to its third party developers, no one has a corruption fixing utility that works and is making money off of. "Data goes into black box - gets corrupted - data doesn't come out of black box." That's actually my biggest concern with Access. The absolute (publicly) undocumented proprietary nature of it. Sometimes I think the (publicly) can be left out of the statement. I'm actually quite surprised by the results of this little debate. Ken, Charlotte, Dev, Lebans and others all warn against it. I think the question I posed here to Susan concerning lookups originally came to mind about 5 years ago when I saw it on Dev's website under the "ten rules". I don't follow "rules" - when I see the word "rule" my mind automatically translates it to "strong guideline", but it made me curious. Like I said I don't generally use lookups, I have, and I will if the situation calls for them again. -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of DWUTKA at marlow.com Sent: Friday, March 26, 2004 1:17 AM To: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com; accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: RE: [AccessD] Lookup Fields in Table Design John, the points are cute, but the problem is that Lookup fields do NOT cause corruption. He said they made it more difficult to fix. There are a TON of things (that everyone uses) that make repairing corruption more difficult. Essentially, if you make a blank database, and put it on CD, you stand the best chances of recovering that database when it's completely blank, and never used. Once you start adding data, code, objecs, etc, you are adding things which can complicate a recovery. So it's a no pointer / moot point, to say that lookup's made a particular recovery difficult. If there had been a bit of error handling code, which got in the way of recovering a database, would you say 'I'll never use Error Handling code, because it made my life difficult once'? I didn't think so. Drew -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From john at winhaven.net Sat Mar 27 15:16:51 2004 From: john at winhaven.net (John Bartow) Date: Sat, 27 Mar 2004 15:16:51 -0600 Subject: [AccessD] Lookup Fields in Table Design In-Reply-To: <13445341026.20040326212216@cactus.dk> Message-ID: I have, many times - unfortunately ;o) John -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Gustav Brock Sent: Friday, March 26, 2004 2:22 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Lookup Fields in Table Design Hi Susan > And this discussion becomes moot (isn't that the wording for such a > situation you use "over there"?) > ========Typical developer response. :) You assume the average user knows how > to do that -- controls inherit the lookup field, so the user doesn't even > need to bother -- it is already there! It isn't moot yet. ;) You are right. I have yet to see a user using Access as a desktop application - they just don't understand what a relational database is - and I only deal with split database design. /gustav -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From john at winhaven.net Sat Mar 27 15:16:52 2004 From: john at winhaven.net (John Bartow) Date: Sat, 27 Mar 2004 15:16:52 -0600 Subject: [AccessD] Lookup Fields in Table Design In-Reply-To: <19339509551.20040326194505@cactus.dk> Message-ID: Gustav: I understand your point. When you drag a feild from the field list of a form onto the form Access sets the row source type to table/query and creates the query definition for row source based on the lookup property. True its not a defined query available in the query defs collection, its stored in the controls properties but it no longer is tied to the table's field lookup propertie. At least in A97 it works this way. -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Gustav Brock Sent: Friday, March 26, 2004 12:45 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Lookup Fields in Table Design Hi John > I believe the discussion is: why not (use the lookups property)? In that case I can't tell; I've just never felt the need as form design for my part never is "very simple" and I always use queries as recordsource for forms and combos. For me tables are tables. However, if anyone find lookups in tables of value, feel free - but I don't think I'll join the party. As I told, I've used them once (in queries) only) - that's all. /gustav -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From john at winhaven.net Sat Mar 27 15:26:03 2004 From: john at winhaven.net (John Bartow) Date: Sat, 27 Mar 2004 15:26:03 -0600 Subject: [AccessD] Lookup Fields in Table Design In-Reply-To: <20040326195657.VRXF1780.imf23aec.mail.bellsouth.net@SUSANONE> Message-ID: Sorry Susan but I can't abide by that. My definitions: "Bloat is a recoverable size increase, for which the cause of is sometimes unknown." "Overhead is an unrecoverable change in size due to something that was done intentionally." So if one wanted to reduce the size they could intentionally set the lookup property back to default. Score: nay-sayers 4 / sayers 8 -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Susan Harkins Sent: Friday, March 26, 2004 1:57 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: [AccessD] Lookup Fields in Table Design VERY interesting. Have to give them half a point back, because there is a small amount of 'bloat', if you use a query/table for the lookup. But it's negligible, and also, both databases grow when you index the field, just grows a bit more. I would never really call that 'bloat'. Not trying to back track, but to me, bloat is when a database grows in size over time, but when compacted, it gets smaller. The portion that is 'reduced' is bloat. The portion left after the compact is 'overhead'. That's my definition. Admittedly, if you are going to run close to max db size, then lookups should be removed, to get that much more space. But we are talking overhead space, not really 'bloat'. ==============Wait!!!!!!!!!!! Is it true bloat, or just normal increase due to feature use. I mean, if you use it, it's going to cost something somewhere. So don't be so quick to label it -- but if it really bloat, then OK. :) Susan H. -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From john at winhaven.net Sat Mar 27 15:44:33 2004 From: john at winhaven.net (John Bartow) Date: Sat, 27 Mar 2004 15:44:33 -0600 Subject: [AccessD] Lookup Fields in Table Design In-Reply-To: <004101c41372$0cda2940$2a3ca8c0@TEXASSYSTEMS.COM> Message-ID: Ken: They are embedded in Access, whether or not you use them to your advantage so this point is "moot". John Tell me, who in the general database community thinks this is a good idea? Please, show me the data modeling book that has a step that says "embed client-side UI elements in the table design". Looking beyond the uncertainty that table lookup fields introduce to the reliability of the backend, I honestly can't see how you are going to get ahead in the long run with it. It fills no functional niche that isn't covered by more standard, broadly accepted techniques. Finally, it is the little hassles that this feature consistently gives that have caused me to largely abandon it. -Ken -- From john at winhaven.net Sat Mar 27 15:44:34 2004 From: john at winhaven.net (John Bartow) Date: Sat, 27 Mar 2004 15:44:34 -0600 Subject: [AccessD] Lookup Fields in Table Design In-Reply-To: <2F8793082E00D4119A1700B0D0216BF8022279DA@main2.marlow.com> Message-ID: Well thanks, but I'm going to have to say I can't abide those points as they really added nothing to the subject of the debate. :o) -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of DWUTKA at marlow.com Sent: Friday, March 26, 2004 2:39 PM To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: RE: [AccessD] Lookup Fields in Table Design Well put, three points for the score keeper...that puts you in second place! LOL Drew -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of John Bartow Sent: Friday, March 26, 2004 12:50 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] Lookup Fields in Table Design Charlotte, You'll find that most people are more strongly opinionated than I am (on many issues). While I may jest about starting flame wars, I really don't enjoy seeing people argue. However, I do enjoy seeing people debate an issue. Especially a group with as intelligent and capable people as we have here. There are many lists where one gets chastised for not conforming to the group mentality (most generally the "bully" of the group's mentality)- I don't stick around those lists very long - not because I can't take getting chastised but because there is really not much one can learn from people who think they have all of the answers for all eternity! And there is certainly little opportunity for me to "help" anyone in that situation. I do try to give back what I can on any list I am on (including directing people to this list). I question the status quo. I listen to all sides of an issue (and there are usually more than two sides). I make a decision. I recommend things based on informed decisions. I accept that not everyone is going to take my recommendations. I revisit my decisions on a regular basis to see if there are compelling reasons to change them. I believe this is why I am a very good "consultant". John PS: We'll just leave my capabilities as a "programmer" out of it! ;o) -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Charlotte Foust Sent: Friday, March 26, 2004 12:19 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] Lookup Fields in Table Design John, You are NOT getting into the spirit of this discussion. Reasonableness has no place here! Charlotte Foust -----Original Message----- From: John Bartow [mailto:john at winhaven.net] Sent: Friday, March 26, 2004 10:00 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] Lookup Fields in Table Design Here's a stretch but... For people that like to use the added form designing capabilites of the lookup property, once the table design and realtionships are complete you could set the desired lookup properties. Design all of the forms for the application. When the application design is complete you could run code that iterates the table collection and eliminates all lookup properties in the table design. This in essence would eliminate the corruption and performance issues. Eh? -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Charlotte Foust Sent: Friday, March 26, 2004 11:39 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] Lookup Fields in Table Design There is also the issue of TableID limits, which I believe include all the tables involved as lookups. Charlotte Foust -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From john at winhaven.net Sat Mar 27 15:44:34 2004 From: john at winhaven.net (John Bartow) Date: Sat, 27 Mar 2004 15:44:34 -0600 Subject: [AccessD] Lookup Fields in Table Design In-Reply-To: <20040326210257.JRPL1763.imf25aec.mail.bellsouth.net@SUSANONE> Message-ID: Yes, that was very polite. But my experience is much different than Gustav's. I have seen many users (at least attempting to) use access as a desktop application. It is scarey too! No points. -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Susan Harkins Sent: Friday, March 26, 2004 3:03 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: [AccessD] Lookup Fields in Table Design You are right. I have yet to see a user using Access as a desktop application - they just don't understand what a relational database is - and I only deal with split database design. ==John, I guess Gustav has earned the nays a half point, just for politeness! ;) Susan H. -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From john at winhaven.net Sat Mar 27 15:53:44 2004 From: john at winhaven.net (John Bartow) Date: Sat, 27 Mar 2004 15:53:44 -0600 Subject: [AccessD] Lookup Fields in Table Design In-Reply-To: <006401c4139b$cc6423f0$2a3ca8c0@TEXASSYSTEMS.COM> Message-ID: Uhmmm, just to clarify, a grain of sand does make a ripple. A very small ripple that some creatures can't see but a ripple non the less. Second, if you throw a grain of sand in the water, it doesn't make a ripple. From john at winhaven.net Sat Mar 27 15:53:44 2004 From: john at winhaven.net (John Bartow) Date: Sat, 27 Mar 2004 15:53:44 -0600 Subject: [AccessD] Lookup Fields in Table Design In-Reply-To: <406572DF.12892.A02D3F@localhost> Message-ID: +.5 for the sayers! Score: nay-sayers 4 / sayers 8.5 -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Stuart McLachlan Sent: Friday, March 26, 2004 8:26 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problemsolving Subject: RE: [AccessD] Lookup Fields in Table Design On 26 Mar 2004 at 19:35, Ken Ismert wrote: > > >It doesn't affect that, BECAUSE it's a property that is only > >looked at by the Wizards, NOT by Jet, when retrieving the data. > > Its used in queries too. Queries inherit this stuff from the table they are > based on. > Queries don't use it. The object which Access uses to display the results of queries does. If I pull a "Select * from tblMyTable", my recordset doesn't know anything about the combobox bound to fldMyLookup - or about any table used for the lookup on that field. If however, I use the Query Datasheet to display it, the datasheet will look at the table definition to determine how it is displayed by default (which can be overwritten by defining a different display format in the query grid itself). In essence, the lookup property(ies) of a field in a table are no different to the Format, and Caption properties. They are used to define the *default* way that the data in the table is displayed in the GUI. You can overwrite this default in any query grid, form control, report control that you create. It has nothing to do with how a recordset is actually retreived by Jet. -- Lexacorp Ltd http://www.lexacorp.com.pg Information Technology Consultancy, Software Development,System Support. -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From john at winhaven.net Sat Mar 27 15:53:45 2004 From: john at winhaven.net (John Bartow) Date: Sat, 27 Mar 2004 15:53:45 -0600 Subject: [AccessD] Lookup Fields in Table Design In-Reply-To: <004801c413c7$00a72470$6101a8c0@dejpolsys> Message-ID: -5 points to everyone in Florida! ;o) -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of William Hindman Sent: Saturday, March 27, 2004 12:45 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Lookup Fields in Table Design ...at long, long, long, long last!!!! ...a post in this endless, angels on a pinhead, thread that actually would produce a positive result in my workday world :))))))))) ...thank god that Fridays usually kill the unkillable threads of the past week :((( William Hindman ipsedixitism: something is true because I myself have said it is true ...the philosophy of Noam Chomsky :) ----- Original Message ----- From: "John W. Colby" To: "Access Developers discussion and problem solving" Sent: Friday, March 26, 2004 10:53 PM Subject: RE: [AccessD] Lookup Fields in Table Design > The real answer to this is to just shoot all users. Problem solved! > > John W. Colby > www.ColbyConsulting.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From john at winhaven.net Sat Mar 27 15:53:45 2004 From: john at winhaven.net (John Bartow) Date: Sat, 27 Mar 2004 15:53:45 -0600 Subject: [AccessD] Lookup Fields in Table Design In-Reply-To: <2F8793082E00D4119A1700B0D0216BF8022279EB@main2.marlow.com> Message-ID: unnecessarily derogatory remark -.5 sayers Score: nay-sayers 4 / sayers 7.5 -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of DWUTKA at marlow.com Sent: Saturday, March 27, 2004 11:59 AM To: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com; accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: RE: [AccessD] Lookup Fields in Table Design Thank you! I was beginning to think that I was talking to a wall there. Everything I have tested shows that the DefaultControl property does absolutely nothing to how JET retrieves data, and only slightly affects how JET stores data (because it does setup a relationship, if you have an ID field with a lookup of a related table. But it's no more 'work' then if you just set the relationship up in the database, in the first place. All I'm getting from Ken is, 'It's just not standard practice, so it must be bad'. Ugh. Drew -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Sent: 3/26/04 8:26 PM Subject: RE: [AccessD] Lookup Fields in Table Design On 26 Mar 2004 at 19:35, Ken Ismert wrote: > > >It doesn't affect that, BECAUSE it's a property that is only > >looked at by the Wizards, NOT by Jet, when retrieving the data. > > Its used in queries too. Queries inherit this stuff from the table they are > based on. > Queries don't use it. The object which Access uses to display the results of queries does. If I pull a "Select * from tblMyTable", my recordset doesn't know anything about the combobox bound to fldMyLookup - or about any table used for the lookup on that field. If however, I use the Query Datasheet to display it, the datasheet will look at the table definition to determine how it is displayed by default (which can be overwritten by defining a different display format in the query grid itself). In essence, the lookup property(ies) of a field in a table are no different to the Format, and Caption properties. They are used to define the *default* way that the data in the table is displayed in the GUI. You can overwrite this default in any query grid, form control, report control that you create. It has nothing to do with how a recordset is actually retreived by Jet. -- Lexacorp Ltd http://www.lexacorp.com.pg Information Technology Consultancy, Software Development,System Support. -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From john at winhaven.net Sat Mar 27 15:53:46 2004 From: john at winhaven.net (John Bartow) Date: Sat, 27 Mar 2004 15:53:46 -0600 Subject: [AccessD] Lookup Fields in Table Design In-Reply-To: <2F8793082E00D4119A1700B0D0216BF8022279E0@main2.marlow.com> Message-ID: Oh, well see it was simple ;o) Score Stands at: nay-sayers 4 / sayers 8 -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of DWUTKA at marlow.com Sent: Friday, March 26, 2004 3:22 PM To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: RE: [AccessD] Lookup Fields in Table Design It's nitty gritty, but it does the job: On Error Resume Next Dim db As Database Dim tblTemp As TableDef Dim fld As Field Set db = CurrentDb For Each tblTemp In db.TableDefs For Each fld In tblTemp.Fields If fld.Properties("DisplayControl") <> 109 Then If Err = 0 Then fld.Properties("DisplayControl").Value = 109 Else Err.Clear End If End If Next Next Set db = Nothing Drew -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Ken Ismert Sent: Friday, March 26, 2004 2:33 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: [AccessD] Lookup Fields in Table Design McCool. If you have code that does that, I'd love to see it. -Ken -----Original Message----- From: John Bartow [mailto:john at winhaven.net] Sent: Friday, March 26, 2004 12:00 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] Lookup Fields in Table Design Here's a stretch but... For people that like to use the added form designing capabilites of the lookup property, once the table design and realtionships are complete you could set the desired lookup properties. Design all of the forms for the application. When the application design is complete you could run code that iterates the table collection and eliminates all lookup properties in the table design. This in essence would eliminate the corruption and performance issues. Eh? -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Charlotte Foust Sent: Friday, March 26, 2004 11:39 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] Lookup Fields in Table Design There is also the issue of TableID limits, which I believe include all the tables involved as lookups. Charlotte Foust -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From stephen at bondsoftware.co.nz Sat Mar 27 15:52:14 2004 From: stephen at bondsoftware.co.nz (Stephen Bond) Date: Sun, 28 Mar 2004 09:52:14 +1200 Subject: [AccessD] 1st Anglo-Australian DBA Conference Message-ID: <70F3D727890C784291D8433E9C418F290886BA@server.bondsoftware.co.nz> OK, I'll bite ... can't see it on www.databaseadvisors.com - when and where? Stephen Bond > -----Original Message----- > From: Jim Lawrence (AccessD) [mailto:accessd at shaw.ca] > Sent: Sunday, 28 March 2004 5:39 a.m. > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: [AccessD] 1st Anglo-Australian DBA Conference > > > Hi All: > > The 1st Anglo-Australian DBA Conference was held a short > while ago. It may > have been small but it is a start. www.databaseadvisors.com > > Jim > > > > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > From john at winhaven.net Sat Mar 27 15:54:28 2004 From: john at winhaven.net (John Bartow) Date: Sat, 27 Mar 2004 15:54:28 -0600 Subject: [AccessD] Lookup Fields in Table Design In-Reply-To: <004001c41371$8c3b1150$2a3ca8c0@TEXASSYSTEMS.COM> Message-ID: McNo. I don't actually use the lookup property so I don't need the code. I would be s a simple property change so it shouldn't be difficult to do if you really want it though. John -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Ken Ismert Sent: Friday, March 26, 2004 2:33 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: [AccessD] Lookup Fields in Table Design McCool. If you have code that does that, I'd love to see it. -Ken -----Original Message----- From: John Bartow [mailto:john at winhaven.net] Sent: Friday, March 26, 2004 12:00 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] Lookup Fields in Table Design Here's a stretch but... For people that like to use the added form designing capabilites of the lookup property, once the table design and realtionships are complete you could set the desired lookup properties. Design all of the forms for the application. When the application design is complete you could run code that iterates the table collection and eliminates all lookup properties in the table design. This in essence would eliminate the corruption and performance issues. Eh? -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Charlotte Foust Sent: Friday, March 26, 2004 11:39 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] Lookup Fields in Table Design There is also the issue of TableID limits, which I believe include all the tables involved as lookups. Charlotte Foust -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From stephen at bondsoftware.co.nz Sat Mar 27 15:54:51 2004 From: stephen at bondsoftware.co.nz (Stephen Bond) Date: Sun, 28 Mar 2004 09:54:51 +1200 Subject: [AccessD] 1st Anglo-Australian DBA Conference Message-ID: <70F3D727890C784291D8433E9C418F290886BB@server.bondsoftware.co.nz> Silly boy, went back and had another look. Too early in the morning ...! Stephen Bond > -----Original Message----- > From: Jim Lawrence (AccessD) [mailto:accessd at shaw.ca] > Sent: Sunday, 28 March 2004 5:39 a.m. > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: [AccessD] 1st Anglo-Australian DBA Conference > > > Hi All: > > The 1st Anglo-Australian DBA Conference was held a short > while ago. It may > have been small but it is a start. www.databaseadvisors.com > > Jim > > > > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > From djkr at msn.com Sat Mar 27 16:04:06 2004 From: djkr at msn.com (DJK(John) Robinson) Date: Sat, 27 Mar 2004 22:04:06 -0000 Subject: [AccessD] OT: Hard Drives, RAID, backup setup In-Reply-To: <16629930808.20040327191323@cactus.dk> Message-ID: <004701c41447$6c50e190$bf00a8c0@dabsight> RAID - the movie; see http://www.acnc.com/04_01_00_flash.html Not quite as good/accurate/complete as it could be, though. John > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of > Gustav Brock > Sent: 27 March 2004 18:13 > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: Re: [AccessD] OT: Hard Drives, RAID, backup setup > > > Hi Drew > > > Haven't had my coffee yet, but I thought RAID 0 was a > mirror, and RAID > > 1 was a stripe. I'm a little groggy, so if you can't find it on > > google somewhere, and really want to know, I'll go look it up. > > Nope - you certainly miss both the coffee and the orange juice: > > http://www.arstechnica.com/paedia/r/raid-1.html > > http://www.arstechnica.com/paedia/r/raid-2.html > > Also, RAID 0-1 and 1-0: > > http://www.ofb.net/~jheiss/raid10/ > > /gustav > > > > Plain mirror is RAID 1, isn't it? > > > And you can always go to SATA these days, up to 8 drives on > a PCI card > > - given the right PCI interface - RAID 0, 1, 5, 10 or JBOD. > > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > From ssharkins at bellsouth.net Sat Mar 27 16:14:33 2004 From: ssharkins at bellsouth.net (Susan Harkins) Date: Sat, 27 Mar 2004 17:14:33 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Lookup Fields in Table Design In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <20040327221432.ILXW1781.imf18aec.mail.bellsouth.net@SUSANONE> Well, that's what I was asking! ;) Susan H. Sorry Susan but I can't abide by that. My definitions: "Bloat is a recoverable size increase, for which the cause of is sometimes unknown." "Overhead is an unrecoverable change in size due to something that was done intentionally." So if one wanted to reduce the size they could intentionally set the lookup property back to default. Score: nay-sayers 4 / sayers 8 -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Susan Harkins Sent: Friday, March 26, 2004 1:57 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: [AccessD] Lookup Fields in Table Design VERY interesting. Have to give them half a point back, because there is a small amount of 'bloat', if you use a query/table for the lookup. But it's negligible, and also, both databases grow when you index the field, just grows a bit more. I would never really call that 'bloat'. Not trying to back track, but to me, bloat is when a database grows in size over time, but when compacted, it gets smaller. The portion that is 'reduced' is bloat. The portion left after the compact is 'overhead'. That's my definition. Admittedly, if you are going to run close to max db size, then lookups should be removed, to get that much more space. But we are talking overhead space, not really 'bloat'. ==============Wait!!!!!!!!!!! Is it true bloat, or just normal increase due to feature use. I mean, if you use it, it's going to cost something somewhere. So don't be so quick to label it -- but if it really bloat, then OK. :) Susan H. -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From ssharkins at bellsouth.net Sat Mar 27 16:16:30 2004 From: ssharkins at bellsouth.net (Susan Harkins) Date: Sat, 27 Mar 2004 17:16:30 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Lookup Fields in Table Design In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <20040327221629.IMIZ1781.imf18aec.mail.bellsouth.net@SUSANONE> OK, if they can't get points for politeness, they shouldn't lose points for the lack of it. Right? Susan H. unnecessarily derogatory remark -.5 sayers From john at winhaven.net Sat Mar 27 16:47:49 2004 From: john at winhaven.net (John Bartow) Date: Sat, 27 Mar 2004 16:47:49 -0600 Subject: [AccessD] Lookup Fields in Table Design In-Reply-To: <20040327221629.IMIZ1781.imf18aec.mail.bellsouth.net@SUSANONE> Message-ID: Not IMO. But this is probably a topic for the OT list anyway - then William can slam me too. (I think he's ignoring this thread now.) ;o) I think as a civilized people we should expect politeness not reward it. With a group of people whom we are familiar, we can dispense with some of the more rigorous practices of being polite. But we should never be rude and we should let it be known that we do not embrace rude behavior. OTH, reward and punishment for children should eventually lead them into behaving as above. My minus points for rudeness are only to encourage the context of the dialog being continued in a productive meaningful exchange of ideas. Sometimes these little debate can turn ugly due to one comment being received by one person who happens to be in the wrong state of mind. Since _I_ can't actually make people stop participating in a email debate I try to encourage them to check the derogatory or aggressive tones. I have had an eye opening experience with this particular debate. I may actually try using this feature again. We'll see where it ends up. Maybe Dev Ashish will join in here before its over. E-gads! I wrote "behaviour" and the spell check caught it. I catch myself writing "grey" and "colour" a lot too. I'm melting... -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Susan Harkins Sent: Saturday, March 27, 2004 4:16 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: [AccessD] Lookup Fields in Table Design OK, if they can't get points for politeness, they shouldn't lose points for the lack of it. Right? Susan H. unnecessarily derogatory remark -.5 sayers -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From john at winhaven.net Sat Mar 27 16:47:50 2004 From: john at winhaven.net (John Bartow) Date: Sat, 27 Mar 2004 16:47:50 -0600 Subject: [AccessD] Lookup Fields in Table Design In-Reply-To: <20040327221432.ILXW1781.imf18aec.mail.bellsouth.net@SUSANONE> Message-ID: Susan: I'm sorry I meant to write that to Drew's comment: Have to give them half a point back, because there is a small amount of 'bloat', if you use a query/table for the lookup. I think he later rescinded on it anyway :o) -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Susan Harkins Sent: Saturday, March 27, 2004 4:15 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: [AccessD] Lookup Fields in Table Design Well, that's what I was asking! ;) Susan H. Sorry Susan but I can't abide by that. My definitions: "Bloat is a recoverable size increase, for which the cause of is sometimes unknown." "Overhead is an unrecoverable change in size due to something that was done intentionally." So if one wanted to reduce the size they could intentionally set the lookup property back to default. Score: nay-sayers 4 / sayers 8 -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Susan Harkins Sent: Friday, March 26, 2004 1:57 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: [AccessD] Lookup Fields in Table Design VERY interesting. Have to give them half a point back, because there is a small amount of 'bloat', if you use a query/table for the lookup. But it's negligible, and also, both databases grow when you index the field, just grows a bit more. I would never really call that 'bloat'. Not trying to back track, but to me, bloat is when a database grows in size over time, but when compacted, it gets smaller. The portion that is 'reduced' is bloat. The portion left after the compact is 'overhead'. That's my definition. Admittedly, if you are going to run close to max db size, then lookups should be removed, to get that much more space. But we are talking overhead space, not really 'bloat'. ==============Wait!!!!!!!!!!! Is it true bloat, or just normal increase due to feature use. I mean, if you use it, it's going to cost something somewhere. So don't be so quick to label it -- but if it really bloat, then OK. :) Susan H. -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From KIsmert at TexasSystems.com Sat Mar 27 16:57:07 2004 From: KIsmert at TexasSystems.com (Ken Ismert) Date: Sat, 27 Mar 2004 16:57:07 -0600 Subject: [AccessD] Lookup Fields in Table Design - Coup de Grace In-Reply-To: <2F8793082E00D4119A1700B0D0216BF8022279D8@main2.marlow.com> Message-ID: <005101c4144e$d4b1c040$2a3ca8c0@TEXASSYSTEMS.COM> A little scenario: At the international company you work for, you have been given two customer databases to work with. One is for your US data, the other from Mexico. Inspecting both, you can clearly see that, years ago, the Mexican db was adapted from the US original. In each db, you see two tables you're interested in, tblAddresses and tblStates. While the Mexican tblAddresses has been modified somewhat, tblStates has remained unchanged, with two fields, StateID and Name, both text. The US version of tblStates contains Alabama to Wyoming, while the Mexican one naturally contains Aguascalientes to Zacatecas, with their abbreviations in the StateID field. Critically, you also notice that table field lookups were also defined for the StateID field in each tblAddresses table. So, you build your frontend and link the US tables. You also link the Mexican tables, which show up as tblAddresses1 and tblStates1. Next, you open the linked tblAddresses (US version). The table lookups do their job, showing 'Alabama' for AL, etc. Happy, you open the linked tblAddresses1 (Mexican version) ... wait ... all hell has broken loose! Instead of the Mexican state names, you see only the StateID codes, along with some US State names ... what the!?!? After some digging, you find the problem: the table field lookup in the Mexican version of tblAddresses. While it works correctly in the backend, it fails in the frontend, because the lookup SQL in the linked tblAddresses1 now refers to the *linked* tblState, which holds the US data, not tblState1, which holds the correct Mexican data! This demonstrates that table field lookups, by themselves, can cause incorrect query results. But it gets worse. The original programmer that setup the databases didn't know too much about table design, and did not establish a relationship between tblAddresses and tblStates, only indexes. This means that you now have a situation where you can enter incorrect values into a table from the wrong lookup table! If you were under pressure, and didn't catch this error, and allowed data entry on a frontend with this problem, the results would be disastrous. What has been shown here, and validated in my testing, is that table field lookups can cause inaccurate results, and an insidious form of data corruption. It is important to emphasize that table field lookups are the single point of failure in this scenario. Removing them from the backend tables solves the problem, by making you match the correct main/lookup tables in a frontend query. If you had used any method other than table field lookups initially, you would have avoided this fiasco completely. By violating the principle of client/server separation, and embedding client-side UI elements in data tables, table field lookups are data land mines, just waiting to bite you at some later date. When you use them, you are embedding an implicit external context assumption into your table. In this case, the assumption was 'my external name will always be tblState'. Anytime this assumption is violated, table field lookups will fail. For this, and the other reasons that I have outlined, table field lookups are a BAD IDEA. Match point: Naysayers. Game: Naysayers. Hey, Susan ... your marshmallows have grown cold!. Pass 'em over here, I'm in the mood for s'mores! -Ken From wdhindman at bellsouth.net Sat Mar 27 16:57:41 2004 From: wdhindman at bellsouth.net (William Hindman) Date: Sat, 27 Mar 2004 17:57:41 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Lookup Fields in Table Design References: Message-ID: <002c01c4144e$e8b88d30$6101a8c0@dejpolsys> ...a pointless argument in a pointless thread :)))))))))) William Hindman ipsedixitism: something is true because I myself have said it is true ...the philosophy of Noam Chomsky :) ----- Original Message ----- From: "John Bartow" To: "Access Developers discussion and problem solving" Sent: Saturday, March 27, 2004 5:47 PM Subject: RE: [AccessD] Lookup Fields in Table Design > Not IMO. But this is probably a topic for the OT list anyway - then William > can slam me too. (I think he's ignoring this thread now.) > ;o) > > I think as a civilized people we should expect politeness not reward it. > With a group of people whom we are familiar, we can dispense with some of > the more rigorous practices of being polite. But we should never be rude and > we should let it be known that we do not embrace rude behavior. > > OTH, reward and punishment for children should eventually lead them into > behaving as above. > > My minus points for rudeness are only to encourage the context of the dialog > being continued in a productive meaningful exchange of ideas. Sometimes > these little debate can turn ugly due to one comment being received by one > person who happens to be in the wrong state of mind. Since _I_ can't > actually make people stop participating in a email debate I try to encourage > them to check the derogatory or aggressive tones. > > I have had an eye opening experience with this particular debate. I may > actually try using this feature again. We'll see where it ends up. Maybe Dev > Ashish will join in here before its over. > > E-gads! I wrote "behaviour" and the spell check caught it. I catch myself > writing "grey" and "colour" a lot too. I'm melting... > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Susan Harkins > Sent: Saturday, March 27, 2004 4:16 PM > To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' > Subject: RE: [AccessD] Lookup Fields in Table Design > > > OK, if they can't get points for politeness, they shouldn't lose points for > the lack of it. Right? > > Susan H. > > unnecessarily derogatory remark -.5 sayers > > > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > From john at winhaven.net Sat Mar 27 17:12:45 2004 From: john at winhaven.net (John Bartow) Date: Sat, 27 Mar 2004 17:12:45 -0600 Subject: [AccessD] Lookup Fields in Table Design - Coup de Grace In-Reply-To: <005101c4144e$d4b1c040$2a3ca8c0@TEXASSYSTEMS.COM> Message-ID: Ken, Do you play poker, were you just holding that in reserve!? ;o) Actually this scenario assumes an awful lot of bad practices to blame it solely on the lookup property. But I get your point. 4 points! Score Stands at: nay-sayers 8 / sayers 8 John PS: However, if the developer had followed my idea of setting all of the table lookup properties back to the default after completing their form development this wouldn't have happened. -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Ken Ismert Sent: Saturday, March 27, 2004 4:57 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: [AccessD] Lookup Fields in Table Design - Coup de Grace A little scenario: At the international company you work for, you have been given two customer databases to work with. One is for your US data, the other from Mexico. Inspecting both, you can clearly see that, years ago, the Mexican db was adapted from the US original. In each db, you see two tables you're interested in, tblAddresses and tblStates. While the Mexican tblAddresses has been modified somewhat, tblStates has remained unchanged, with two fields, StateID and Name, both text. The US version of tblStates contains Alabama to Wyoming, while the Mexican one naturally contains Aguascalientes to Zacatecas, with their abbreviations in the StateID field. Critically, you also notice that table field lookups were also defined for the StateID field in each tblAddresses table. So, you build your frontend and link the US tables. You also link the Mexican tables, which show up as tblAddresses1 and tblStates1. Next, you open the linked tblAddresses (US version). The table lookups do their job, showing 'Alabama' for AL, etc. Happy, you open the linked tblAddresses1 (Mexican version) ... wait ... all hell has broken loose! Instead of the Mexican state names, you see only the StateID codes, along with some US State names ... what the!?!? After some digging, you find the problem: the table field lookup in the Mexican version of tblAddresses. While it works correctly in the backend, it fails in the frontend, because the lookup SQL in the linked tblAddresses1 now refers to the *linked* tblState, which holds the US data, not tblState1, which holds the correct Mexican data! This demonstrates that table field lookups, by themselves, can cause incorrect query results. But it gets worse. The original programmer that setup the databases didn't know too much about table design, and did not establish a relationship between tblAddresses and tblStates, only indexes. This means that you now have a situation where you can enter incorrect values into a table from the wrong lookup table! If you were under pressure, and didn't catch this error, and allowed data entry on a frontend with this problem, the results would be disastrous. What has been shown here, and validated in my testing, is that table field lookups can cause inaccurate results, and an insidious form of data corruption. It is important to emphasize that table field lookups are the single point of failure in this scenario. Removing them from the backend tables solves the problem, by making you match the correct main/lookup tables in a frontend query. If you had used any method other than table field lookups initially, you would have avoided this fiasco completely. By violating the principle of client/server separation, and embedding client-side UI elements in data tables, table field lookups are data land mines, just waiting to bite you at some later date. When you use them, you are embedding an implicit external context assumption into your table. In this case, the assumption was 'my external name will always be tblState'. Anytime this assumption is violated, table field lookups will fail. For this, and the other reasons that I have outlined, table field lookups are a BAD IDEA. Match point: Naysayers. Game: Naysayers. Hey, Susan ... your marshmallows have grown cold!. Pass 'em over here, I'm in the mood for s'mores! -Ken -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From john at winhaven.net Sat Mar 27 17:15:12 2004 From: john at winhaven.net (John Bartow) Date: Sat, 27 Mar 2004 17:15:12 -0600 Subject: [AccessD] Lookup Fields in Table Design In-Reply-To: <002c01c4144e$e8b88d30$6101a8c0@dejpolsys> Message-ID: There's been a few points here! <:o) -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of William Hindman Sent: Saturday, March 27, 2004 4:58 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Lookup Fields in Table Design ...a pointless argument in a pointless thread :)))))))))) William Hindman ipsedixitism: something is true because I myself have said it is true ...the philosophy of Noam Chomsky :) ----- Original Message ----- From: "John Bartow" To: "Access Developers discussion and problem solving" Sent: Saturday, March 27, 2004 5:47 PM Subject: RE: [AccessD] Lookup Fields in Table Design > Not IMO. But this is probably a topic for the OT list anyway - then William > can slam me too. (I think he's ignoring this thread now.) > ;o) > > I think as a civilized people we should expect politeness not reward it. > With a group of people whom we are familiar, we can dispense with some of > the more rigorous practices of being polite. But we should never be rude and > we should let it be known that we do not embrace rude behavior. > > OTH, reward and punishment for children should eventually lead them into > behaving as above. > > My minus points for rudeness are only to encourage the context of the dialog > being continued in a productive meaningful exchange of ideas. Sometimes > these little debate can turn ugly due to one comment being received by one > person who happens to be in the wrong state of mind. Since _I_ can't > actually make people stop participating in a email debate I try to encourage > them to check the derogatory or aggressive tones. > > I have had an eye opening experience with this particular debate. I may > actually try using this feature again. We'll see where it ends up. Maybe Dev > Ashish will join in here before its over. > > E-gads! I wrote "behaviour" and the spell check caught it. I catch myself > writing "grey" and "colour" a lot too. I'm melting... > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Susan Harkins > Sent: Saturday, March 27, 2004 4:16 PM > To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' > Subject: RE: [AccessD] Lookup Fields in Table Design > > > OK, if they can't get points for politeness, they shouldn't lose points for > the lack of it. Right? > > Susan H. > > unnecessarily derogatory remark -.5 sayers > > > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From john at winhaven.net Sat Mar 27 17:35:07 2004 From: john at winhaven.net (John Bartow) Date: Sat, 27 Mar 2004 17:35:07 -0600 Subject: [AccessD] Lookup Fields in Table Design - Coup de Grace In-Reply-To: <005101c4144e$d4b1c040$2a3ca8c0@TEXASSYSTEMS.COM> Message-ID: Also, just a thought here but if they had set this up using a defined query rather than a table then it shouldn't have been an issue either. If I did use the lookup property I would use defined queries as the row source not a table name. John -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Ken Ismert Sent: Saturday, March 27, 2004 4:57 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: [AccessD] Lookup Fields in Table Design - Coup de Grace A little scenario: At the international company you work for, you have been given two customer databases to work with. One is for your US data, the other from Mexico. Inspecting both, you can clearly see that, years ago, the Mexican db was adapted from the US original. In each db, you see two tables you're interested in, tblAddresses and tblStates. While the Mexican tblAddresses has been modified somewhat, tblStates has remained unchanged, with two fields, StateID and Name, both text. The US version of tblStates contains Alabama to Wyoming, while the Mexican one naturally contains Aguascalientes to Zacatecas, with their abbreviations in the StateID field. Critically, you also notice that table field lookups were also defined for the StateID field in each tblAddresses table. So, you build your frontend and link the US tables. You also link the Mexican tables, which show up as tblAddresses1 and tblStates1. Next, you open the linked tblAddresses (US version). The table lookups do their job, showing 'Alabama' for AL, etc. Happy, you open the linked tblAddresses1 (Mexican version) ... wait ... all hell has broken loose! Instead of the Mexican state names, you see only the StateID codes, along with some US State names ... what the!?!? After some digging, you find the problem: the table field lookup in the Mexican version of tblAddresses. While it works correctly in the backend, it fails in the frontend, because the lookup SQL in the linked tblAddresses1 now refers to the *linked* tblState, which holds the US data, not tblState1, which holds the correct Mexican data! This demonstrates that table field lookups, by themselves, can cause incorrect query results. But it gets worse. The original programmer that setup the databases didn't know too much about table design, and did not establish a relationship between tblAddresses and tblStates, only indexes. This means that you now have a situation where you can enter incorrect values into a table from the wrong lookup table! If you were under pressure, and didn't catch this error, and allowed data entry on a frontend with this problem, the results would be disastrous. What has been shown here, and validated in my testing, is that table field lookups can cause inaccurate results, and an insidious form of data corruption. It is important to emphasize that table field lookups are the single point of failure in this scenario. Removing them from the backend tables solves the problem, by making you match the correct main/lookup tables in a frontend query. If you had used any method other than table field lookups initially, you would have avoided this fiasco completely. By violating the principle of client/server separation, and embedding client-side UI elements in data tables, table field lookups are data land mines, just waiting to bite you at some later date. When you use them, you are embedding an implicit external context assumption into your table. In this case, the assumption was 'my external name will always be tblState'. Anytime this assumption is violated, table field lookups will fail. For this, and the other reasons that I have outlined, table field lookups are a BAD IDEA. Match point: Naysayers. Game: Naysayers. Hey, Susan ... your marshmallows have grown cold!. Pass 'em over here, I'm in the mood for s'mores! -Ken -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From mcaro at bigpond.net.au Sat Mar 27 17:46:53 2004 From: mcaro at bigpond.net.au (Martin Caro) Date: Sun, 28 Mar 2004 09:46:53 +1000 Subject: [AccessD] Closing Forms Message-ID: <001601c41455$c87234c0$0100000a@mirridong> At times I have 3 or 4 forms open at once and may want to return to the main menu form from any of those and at the same time closing all forms except the main menu form. Can anyone tell me why the following function after closing only one form via the Case else will not continue to work through the forms group and close multiple forms? Public Function CloseForms(FromForm As String) Dim frm As Form For Each frm In Forms Select Case frm.Name Case Is = "frmMainMenu" 'Dont close it Case Is = FromForm 'Dont close the form that called this yet Case Else 'Close any other form MsgBox ("The form being closed is " & frm.Name) DoCmd.close acForm, frm.Name, acSaveNo End Select Next frm End Function Martin From john at winhaven.net Sat Mar 27 17:49:00 2004 From: john at winhaven.net (John Bartow) Date: Sat, 27 Mar 2004 17:49:00 -0600 Subject: [AccessD] OT: Hard Drives, RAID, backup setup In-Reply-To: <004701c41447$6c50e190$bf00a8c0@dabsight> Message-ID: I always thought having two mirrored drives attached to one raid controller would have two data streams and hence the writing to the two drives would be simultaneous. This depicts one data stream that causes the writing to have a delay for the second drive. Is that accurate? John -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of DJK(John) Robinson Sent: Saturday, March 27, 2004 4:04 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: [AccessD] OT: Hard Drives, RAID, backup setup RAID - the movie; see http://www.acnc.com/04_01_00_flash.html Not quite as good/accurate/complete as it could be, though. John > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of > Gustav Brock > Sent: 27 March 2004 18:13 > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: Re: [AccessD] OT: Hard Drives, RAID, backup setup > > > Hi Drew > > > Haven't had my coffee yet, but I thought RAID 0 was a > mirror, and RAID > > 1 was a stripe. I'm a little groggy, so if you can't find it on > > google somewhere, and really want to know, I'll go look it up. > > Nope - you certainly miss both the coffee and the orange juice: > > http://www.arstechnica.com/paedia/r/raid-1.html > > http://www.arstechnica.com/paedia/r/raid-2.html > > Also, RAID 0-1 and 1-0: > > http://www.ofb.net/~jheiss/raid10/ > > /gustav > > > > Plain mirror is RAID 1, isn't it? > > > And you can always go to SATA these days, up to 8 drives on > a PCI card > > - given the right PCI interface - RAID 0, 1, 5, 10 or JBOD. > > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From djkr at msn.com Sat Mar 27 18:00:31 2004 From: djkr at msn.com (DJK(John) Robinson) Date: Sun, 28 Mar 2004 00:00:31 -0000 Subject: [AccessD] OT: Hard Drives, RAID, backup setup In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <004901c41457$af7f6ad0$bf00a8c0@dabsight> You're right, it's not accurate. Misleading graphic. John > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of John Bartow > Sent: 27 March 2004 23:49 > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: RE: [AccessD] OT: Hard Drives, RAID, backup setup > > > I always thought having two mirrored drives attached to one > raid controller would have two data streams and hence the > writing to the two drives would be simultaneous. This depicts > one data stream that causes the writing to have a delay for > the second drive. Is that accurate? > > John > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of > DJK(John) Robinson > Sent: Saturday, March 27, 2004 4:04 PM > To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' > Subject: RE: [AccessD] OT: Hard Drives, RAID, backup setup > > > RAID - the movie; see > http://www.acnc.com/04_01_00_flash.html > > Not quite as good/accurate/complete as it could be, though. > > John > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Gustav > > Brock > > Sent: 27 March 2004 18:13 > > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > > Subject: Re: [AccessD] OT: Hard Drives, RAID, backup setup > > > > > > Hi Drew > > > > > Haven't had my coffee yet, but I thought RAID 0 was a > > mirror, and RAID > > > 1 was a stripe. I'm a little groggy, so if you can't find it on > > > google somewhere, and really want to know, I'll go look it up. > > > > Nope - you certainly miss both the coffee and the orange juice: > > > > http://www.arstechnica.com/paedia/r/raid-1.html > > > > http://www.arstechnica.com/paedia/r/raid-2.html > > > > Also, RAID 0-1 and 1-0: > > > > http://www.ofb.net/~jheiss/raid10/ > > > > /gustav > > > > > > > Plain mirror is RAID 1, isn't it? > > > > > And you can always go to SATA these days, up to 8 drives on > > a PCI card > > > - given the right PCI interface - RAID 0, 1, 5, 10 or JBOD. > > > > -- > > _______________________________________________ > > AccessD mailing list > > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > From john at winhaven.net Sat Mar 27 21:15:56 2004 From: john at winhaven.net (John Bartow) Date: Sat, 27 Mar 2004 21:15:56 -0600 Subject: [AccessD] OT: Hard Drives, RAID, backup setup In-Reply-To: <004901c41457$af7f6ad0$bf00a8c0@dabsight> Message-ID: Thanks for the confirmation - it had me going for awhile! -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of DJK(John) Robinson Sent: Saturday, March 27, 2004 6:01 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: [AccessD] OT: Hard Drives, RAID, backup setup You're right, it's not accurate. Misleading graphic. John > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of John Bartow > Sent: 27 March 2004 23:49 > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: RE: [AccessD] OT: Hard Drives, RAID, backup setup > > > I always thought having two mirrored drives attached to one > raid controller would have two data streams and hence the > writing to the two drives would be simultaneous. This depicts > one data stream that causes the writing to have a delay for > the second drive. Is that accurate? > > John > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of > DJK(John) Robinson > Sent: Saturday, March 27, 2004 4:04 PM > To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' > Subject: RE: [AccessD] OT: Hard Drives, RAID, backup setup > > > RAID - the movie; see > http://www.acnc.com/04_01_00_flash.html > > Not quite as good/accurate/complete as it could be, though. > > John > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Gustav > > Brock > > Sent: 27 March 2004 18:13 > > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > > Subject: Re: [AccessD] OT: Hard Drives, RAID, backup setup > > > > > > Hi Drew > > > > > Haven't had my coffee yet, but I thought RAID 0 was a > > mirror, and RAID > > > 1 was a stripe. I'm a little groggy, so if you can't find it on > > > google somewhere, and really want to know, I'll go look it up. > > > > Nope - you certainly miss both the coffee and the orange juice: > > > > http://www.arstechnica.com/paedia/r/raid-1.html > > > > http://www.arstechnica.com/paedia/r/raid-2.html > > > > Also, RAID 0-1 and 1-0: > > > > http://www.ofb.net/~jheiss/raid10/ > > > > /gustav > > > > > > > Plain mirror is RAID 1, isn't it? > > > > > And you can always go to SATA these days, up to 8 drives on > > a PCI card > > > - given the right PCI interface - RAID 0, 1, 5, 10 or JBOD. > > > > -- > > _______________________________________________ > > AccessD mailing list > > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From bchacc at san.rr.com Sat Mar 27 22:20:23 2004 From: bchacc at san.rr.com (Rocky Smolin - Beach Access Software) Date: Sat, 27 Mar 2004 20:20:23 -0800 Subject: [AccessD] 1st Anglo-Australian DBA Conference References: Message-ID: <008d01c4147b$fd91a4d0$6601a8c0@HAL9002> Note the empty glasses and bottle, and the s.e. grins all around. Looks like a good meeting. Sorry I missed it. Rocky ----- Original Message ----- From: "Jim Lawrence (AccessD)" To: "Access Developers discussion and problem solving" Sent: Saturday, March 27, 2004 9:39 AM Subject: [AccessD] 1st Anglo-Australian DBA Conference > Hi All: > > The 1st Anglo-Australian DBA Conference was held a short while ago. It may > have been small but it is a start. www.databaseadvisors.com > > Jim > > > > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > From bchacc at san.rr.com Sat Mar 27 22:22:29 2004 From: bchacc at san.rr.com (Rocky Smolin - Beach Access Software) Date: Sat, 27 Mar 2004 20:22:29 -0800 Subject: [AccessD] 1st Anglo-Australian DBA Conference References: <8729197113.20040327190109@cactus.dk> <001f01c41432$150e5e40$6101a8c0@dejpolsys> Message-ID: <00a301c4147c$48917910$6601a8c0@HAL9002> SMOLIN! That's SMOLIN!! S as in Sam. M for Mary O-L-I-N!! SMOLIN!! Or join the D.A.M. (Mothers Against Dyslexia). Rocky Smolin As in Smolin ----- Original Message ----- From: "William Hindman" To: "Access Developers discussion and problem solving" Sent: Saturday, March 27, 2004 11:31 AM Subject: Re: [AccessD] 1st Anglo-Australian DBA Conference > ...btw, who the heck is the Rocky Somlin at www.databaseadvisors.com eh? > ...couldn't be a reference to the King of OT ...he'd have someone's head! :( > > William Hindman > ipsedixitism: something is true because I myself have said it is true ...the > philosophy of Noam Chomsky :) > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Gustav Brock" > To: "Access Developers discussion and problem solving" > > Sent: Saturday, March 27, 2004 1:01 PM > Subject: Re: [AccessD] 1st Anglo-Australian DBA Conference > > > > Hi Jim > > > > Small, you bet ... no announcement was made. > > 1st Secret DBA Conference? > > How do one know when the next will take place? > > (You guessed it: you won't!) > > > > Anyway, nice to see you abandoned the terrible Foster beer - probably > > (you can't tell from the picture) in favour of the high-quality > > domestic wine! > > > > /gustav > > > > > > > The 1st Anglo-Australian DBA Conference was held a short while ago. It > may > > > have been small but it is a start. www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > > Jim > > > > -- > > _______________________________________________ > > AccessD mailing list > > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > From wdhindman at bellsouth.net Sat Mar 27 23:03:54 2004 From: wdhindman at bellsouth.net (William Hindman) Date: Sun, 28 Mar 2004 00:03:54 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] 1st Anglo-Australian DBA Conference References: <8729197113.20040327190109@cactus.dk><001f01c41432$150e5e40$6101a8c0@dejpolsys> <00a301c4147c$48917910$6601a8c0@HAL9002> Message-ID: <000401c41482$11c73b30$6101a8c0@dejpolsys> ...hey Rocky ...tell it to the guy who posted your letter on dba! ...oh! ...that was you, eh ...are you a D.A.M. charter member? :) William Hindman ipsedixitism: something is true because I myself have said it is true ...the philosophy of Noam Chomsky :) ----- Original Message ----- From: "Rocky Smolin - Beach Access Software" To: "Access Developers discussion and problem solving" Sent: Saturday, March 27, 2004 11:22 PM Subject: Re: [AccessD] 1st Anglo-Australian DBA Conference > SMOLIN! That's SMOLIN!! > > S as in Sam. > > M for Mary > > O-L-I-N!! > > SMOLIN!! > > Or join the D.A.M. (Mothers Against Dyslexia). > > Rocky > > Smolin > > As in Smolin > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "William Hindman" > To: "Access Developers discussion and problem solving" > > Sent: Saturday, March 27, 2004 11:31 AM > Subject: Re: [AccessD] 1st Anglo-Australian DBA Conference > > > > ...btw, who the heck is the Rocky Somlin at www.databaseadvisors.com eh? > > ...couldn't be a reference to the King of OT ...he'd have someone's head! > :( > > > > William Hindman > > ipsedixitism: something is true because I myself have said it is true > ...the > > philosophy of Noam Chomsky :) > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: "Gustav Brock" > > To: "Access Developers discussion and problem solving" > > > > Sent: Saturday, March 27, 2004 1:01 PM > > Subject: Re: [AccessD] 1st Anglo-Australian DBA Conference > > > > > > > Hi Jim > > > > > > Small, you bet ... no announcement was made. > > > 1st Secret DBA Conference? > > > How do one know when the next will take place? > > > (You guessed it: you won't!) > > > > > > Anyway, nice to see you abandoned the terrible Foster beer - probably > > > (you can't tell from the picture) in favour of the high-quality > > > domestic wine! > > > > > > /gustav > > > > > > > > > > The 1st Anglo-Australian DBA Conference was held a short while ago. It > > may > > > > have been small but it is a start. www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > > > > Jim > > > > > > -- > > > _______________________________________________ > > > AccessD mailing list > > > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > > > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > > > > > > -- > > _______________________________________________ > > AccessD mailing list > > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > From bchacc at san.rr.com Sat Mar 27 23:25:04 2004 From: bchacc at san.rr.com (Rocky Smolin - Beach Access Software) Date: Sat, 27 Mar 2004 21:25:04 -0800 Subject: [AccessD] 1st Anglo-Australian DBA Conference References: <8729197113.20040327190109@cactus.dk> <001f01c41432$150e5e40$6101a8c0@dejpolsys> <00a301c4147c$48917910$6601a8c0@HAL9002> <000401c41482$11c73b30$6101a8c0@dejpolsys> Message-ID: <00e001c41485$06765240$6601a8c0@HAL9002> I make plenty mistrakes but I never misspell my own name. Roki ----- Original Message ----- From: "William Hindman" To: "Access Developers discussion and problem solving" Sent: Saturday, March 27, 2004 9:03 PM Subject: Re: [AccessD] 1st Anglo-Australian DBA Conference > ...hey Rocky ...tell it to the guy who posted your letter on dba! > ...oh! ...that was you, eh ...are you a D.A.M. charter member? :) > > William Hindman > ipsedixitism: something is true because I myself have said it is true ...the > philosophy of Noam Chomsky :) > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Rocky Smolin - Beach Access Software" > To: "Access Developers discussion and problem solving" > > Sent: Saturday, March 27, 2004 11:22 PM > Subject: Re: [AccessD] 1st Anglo-Australian DBA Conference > > > > SMOLIN! That's SMOLIN!! > > > > S as in Sam. > > > > M for Mary > > > > O-L-I-N!! > > > > SMOLIN!! > > > > Or join the D.A.M. (Mothers Against Dyslexia). > > > > Rocky > > > > Smolin > > > > As in Smolin > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: "William Hindman" > > To: "Access Developers discussion and problem solving" > > > > Sent: Saturday, March 27, 2004 11:31 AM > > Subject: Re: [AccessD] 1st Anglo-Australian DBA Conference > > > > > > > ...btw, who the heck is the Rocky Somlin at www.databaseadvisors.com eh? > > > ...couldn't be a reference to the King of OT ...he'd have someone's > head! > > :( > > > > > > William Hindman > > > ipsedixitism: something is true because I myself have said it is true > > ...the > > > philosophy of Noam Chomsky :) > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > From: "Gustav Brock" > > > To: "Access Developers discussion and problem solving" > > > > > > Sent: Saturday, March 27, 2004 1:01 PM > > > Subject: Re: [AccessD] 1st Anglo-Australian DBA Conference > > > > > > > > > > Hi Jim > > > > > > > > Small, you bet ... no announcement was made. > > > > 1st Secret DBA Conference? > > > > How do one know when the next will take place? > > > > (You guessed it: you won't!) > > > > > > > > Anyway, nice to see you abandoned the terrible Foster beer - probably > > > > (you can't tell from the picture) in favour of the high-quality > > > > domestic wine! > > > > > > > > /gustav > > > > > > > > > > > > > The 1st Anglo-Australian DBA Conference was held a short while ago. > It > > > may > > > > > have been small but it is a start. www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > > > > > > Jim > > > > > > > > -- > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > > AccessD mailing list > > > > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > > > > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > > > > > > > > > > -- > > > _______________________________________________ > > > AccessD mailing list > > > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > > > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > > > > -- > > _______________________________________________ > > AccessD mailing list > > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > From accessd at shaw.ca Sun Mar 28 00:25:13 2004 From: accessd at shaw.ca (Jim Lawrence (AccessD)) Date: Sat, 27 Mar 2004 22:25:13 -0800 Subject: [AccessD] 1st Anglo-Australian DBA Conference In-Reply-To: <70F3D727890C784291D8433E9C418F290886BA@server.bondsoftware.co.nz> Message-ID: Sorry Stephen: The conference was small and secret...There is a beetle on the top portion of page with some phrase like "1st Anglo-Australian DBA Conference" adjacent. If you are still having a problem I could sent a close up. :-) Jim -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Stephen Bond Sent: Saturday, March 27, 2004 1:52 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] 1st Anglo-Australian DBA Conference OK, I'll bite ... can't see it on www.databaseadvisors.com - when and where? Stephen Bond > -----Original Message----- > From: Jim Lawrence (AccessD) [mailto:accessd at shaw.ca] > Sent: Sunday, 28 March 2004 5:39 a.m. > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: [AccessD] 1st Anglo-Australian DBA Conference > > > Hi All: > > The 1st Anglo-Australian DBA Conference was held a short > while ago. It may > have been small but it is a start. www.databaseadvisors.com > > Jim > > > > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From accessd at shaw.ca Sun Mar 28 00:34:46 2004 From: accessd at shaw.ca (Jim Lawrence (AccessD)) Date: Sat, 27 Mar 2004 22:34:46 -0800 Subject: [AccessD] 1st Anglo-Australian DBA Conference In-Reply-To: <00a301c4147c$48917910$6601a8c0@HAL9002> Message-ID: Rocky: OK, I tried again this may be closer. Sorry about that but I knew what I meant... but one thumb was slightly faster. Jim PS You are back to being: SMOLIN! That's SMOLIN!! -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Rocky Smolin - Beach Access Software Sent: Saturday, March 27, 2004 8:22 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] 1st Anglo-Australian DBA Conference SMOLIN! That's SMOLIN!! S as in Sam. M for Mary O-L-I-N!! SMOLIN!! Or join the D.A.M. (Mothers Against Dyslexia). Rocky Smolin As in Smolin ----- Original Message ----- From: "William Hindman" To: "Access Developers discussion and problem solving" Sent: Saturday, March 27, 2004 11:31 AM Subject: Re: [AccessD] 1st Anglo-Australian DBA Conference > ...btw, who the heck is the Rocky Somlin at www.databaseadvisors.com eh? > ...couldn't be a reference to the King of OT ...he'd have someone's head! :( > > William Hindman > ipsedixitism: something is true because I myself have said it is true ...the > philosophy of Noam Chomsky :) > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Gustav Brock" > To: "Access Developers discussion and problem solving" > > Sent: Saturday, March 27, 2004 1:01 PM > Subject: Re: [AccessD] 1st Anglo-Australian DBA Conference > > > > Hi Jim > > > > Small, you bet ... no announcement was made. > > 1st Secret DBA Conference? > > How do one know when the next will take place? > > (You guessed it: you won't!) > > > > Anyway, nice to see you abandoned the terrible Foster beer - probably > > (you can't tell from the picture) in favour of the high-quality > > domestic wine! > > > > /gustav > > > > > > > The 1st Anglo-Australian DBA Conference was held a short while ago. It > may > > > have been small but it is a start. www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > > Jim > > > > -- > > _______________________________________________ > > AccessD mailing list > > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From gustav at cactus.dk Sun Mar 28 03:37:16 2004 From: gustav at cactus.dk (Gustav Brock) Date: Sun, 28 Mar 2004 11:37:16 +0200 Subject: [AccessD] Closing Forms In-Reply-To: <001601c41455$c87234c0$0100000a@mirridong> References: <001601c41455$c87234c0$0100000a@mirridong> Message-ID: <285107934.20040328113716@cactus.dk> Hi Martin > At times I have 3 or 4 forms open at once and may want to return to the main menu form from any of those and at the same time closing all forms except the main menu form. Can anyone tell me why the > following function after closing only one form via the Case else will not continue to work through the forms group and close multiple forms? > Public Function CloseForms(FromForm As String) > Dim frm As Form > For Each frm In Forms > Select Case frm.Name > Case Is = "frmMainMenu" > 'Dont close it > Case Is = FromForm > 'Dont close the form that called this yet > Case Else > 'Close any other form > MsgBox ("The form being closed is " & frm.Name) > DoCmd.close acForm, frm.Name, acSaveNo > End Select > Next frm > End Function You are probably destroying the collection Forms moving forwards. Most solutions to this task browse backwards through the collection like this: Public Function CloseForms(FromForm As String) Dim strForm As String Dim lngForm As Long For lngForm = Forms.Count - 1 To 0 Step -1 strForm = Forms(lngForm).Name Select Case strForm Case Is = "frmMainMenu" 'Dont close it Case Is = FromForm 'Dont close the form that called this yet Case Else 'Close any other form MsgBox ("The form being closed is " & strForm) DoCmd.close acForm, strForm, acSaveNo End Select Next End Function /gustav From DWUTKA at marlow.com Sun Mar 28 03:57:14 2004 From: DWUTKA at marlow.com (DWUTKA at marlow.com) Date: Sun, 28 Mar 2004 03:57:14 -0600 Subject: [AccessD] OT: Hard Drives, RAID, backup setup Message-ID: <2F8793082E00D4119A1700B0D0216BF8022279F0@main2.marlow.com> Okay, so I had them reversed! LOL. Drew -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Sent: 3/27/04 12:13 PM Subject: Re: [AccessD] OT: Hard Drives, RAID, backup setup Hi Drew > Haven't had my coffee yet, but I thought RAID 0 was a mirror, and RAID 1 was > a stripe. I'm a little groggy, so if you can't find it on google somewhere, > and really want to know, I'll go look it up. Nope - you certainly miss both the coffee and the orange juice: http://www.arstechnica.com/paedia/r/raid-1.html http://www.arstechnica.com/paedia/r/raid-2.html Also, RAID 0-1 and 1-0: http://www.ofb.net/~jheiss/raid10/ /gustav > Plain mirror is RAID 1, isn't it? > And you can always go to SATA these days, up to 8 drives on a PCI card - > given the right PCI interface - RAID 0, 1, 5, 10 or JBOD. -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From DWUTKA at marlow.com Sun Mar 28 04:00:23 2004 From: DWUTKA at marlow.com (DWUTKA at marlow.com) Date: Sun, 28 Mar 2004 04:00:23 -0600 Subject: [AccessD] Lookup Fields in Table Design Message-ID: <2F8793082E00D4119A1700B0D0216BF8022279F1@main2.marlow.com> Well it's hard to argue with that. But then again, how many database systems (which you pay for), hand out their actual inner workings? Technically speaking, you can get to your data without JET, it's just not as well organized as it is WITH JET. Drew -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Sent: 3/27/04 3:16 PM Subject: RE: [AccessD] Lookup Fields in Table Design Yes, so I will now change: "Data goes into black box - gets corrupted - data doesn't come out of black box." To: "Data goes into gray box - gets corrupted - data doesn't come out of gray box." ;o) It did help though explain the issue sayers regain +.5 Score: nay-sayers 4 / sayers 8 John -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of DWUTKA at marlow.com Sent: Friday, March 26, 2004 1:28 PM To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: RE: [AccessD] Lookup Fields in Table Design I'm shocked. I used Dev's site quite a bit, when I started out with Access. I really admire a lot of what he has done. However, I think a lot of what he has about Lookup Fields on there are wrong. I just changed my test, from a simple State lookup, to a StateID --> StateName setup. Added an ID (autonumber) field to tblStates, and then updated the data in my 'main' table to have the ID's, instead of the abbreviation. Then I switched it to a number field. I then copied the database again, and switched the copy to be a lookup field for the StateID. Compacted both (a little over 200,000 records in both), and NO difference in size. Without indexing... querying is the same speed, with indexing, the querying is still the same speed. However, I now noticed a difference in size, with a lookup field, when the field is indexed. That is definitely interesting. However, that goes away, if you use a callback function. VERY interesting. Have to give them half a point back, because there is a small amount of 'bloat', if you use a query/table for the lookup. But it's negligible, and also, both databases grow when you index the field, just grows a bit more. I would never really call that 'bloat'. Not trying to back track, but to me, bloat is when a database grows in size over time, but when compacted, it gets smaller. The portion that is 'reduced' is bloat. The portion left after the compact is 'overhead'. That's my definition. Admittedly, if you are going to run close to max db size, then lookups should be removed, to get that much more space. But we are talking overhead space, not really 'bloat'. As far as the compacting issue, that's another story. Microsoft has several good reasons for not releasing the inner workings of JET. First of all, there is the licensing issue. If you developed a software package you wanted people to buy, would you give anyone the source? Of course not. If MS gave out the inner workings of JET, it wouldn't be long until Access was unnecessary, because people would just roll their own JET engine. Another reason is support. Jet does a lot of stuff, so even if they did hand out the detailed specs, one little slip, and even a good developer could seriously fry an .mdb. There is nothing mysterious about corruption. It's usually easy to explain, and in most cases is fixable. What you must remember, is that file corruption is NOT limited to .mdb's. It can happen in any type of file. The difference between Access and other file types, however, is what makes it seem like more of an issue. A few years ago, our network was in a serious state of disrepair. We had file corruptions all over the place. That included Word and Excel files, and definitely included .mdb's. A file is nothing more then a series of bytes. With a bad network, flaky hard drive, corrupted OS, (and a million other reasons), it certainly is not impossible to goof a few bytes here and there. Now, depending on what kind of file it is, and what that file does, is going to determine how the corruption affects things. Take, for example, an .exe or .dll. Those files contain CPU instructions. Have you ever had a program start crashing on you? After an Uninstall and reinstall, everything is working again. A lot of times that is due to a file corruption. One corrupted (changed) byte in a .dll or .exe, and you are now changing how the CPU deals with that code. All sorts of things can happen. However, in something like and HTML file, HTML is designed to ignore what it doesn't understand, so it's nearly impossible to have normal file corruption do any real 'damage' to an HMTL file. The more common issues with Word and Excel are the 'locking' files. Something will goof in them, and then that file is locked out. Since Word/Excel is saving changes in those temp files, actual corruption in the original document is more rare (but not unheard of...excel and word have to update the original document when you save it, so that is when corruption can occur there). With an .mdb file, JET is monitoring who has what locked, is reading/updating indexes, reading/updating data, etc. A lot of activity in one file. The .ldb file is only storing who's logged in (and it is also used for locks within the .mdb, but other then the who's logged in, no other data is being changed in the .ldb, only locking bytes). Get a goofed byte in the mix, and things can either continue, go seriously awry, or somewhere in between. just depends what was affected. A lot of time, the corruption is simply someone's machine not 'closing' out of the database correctly. That is easily repaired. But if bytes are corrupted in the indexes, the table definitions, or in the code, that is something the system doesn't know how to 'replace', because it doesn't have a 'template' or 'starting point' to replace it with. As far as I know, the ONLY design issue KNOWN to corrupt a database, happens to lie with a problem between JET and Foxpro. Something about the differences between how JET deals with Memo fields, and Foxpro deals with them. Access does NOT corrupt .mdb's, it is an outside influence that does that. That is a VERY important concept to remember. Because of that, there are NO features within Access that will corrupt a database. (Yes, a feature could be programmed wrong, but Microsoft would eventually fix that with a service pack, because a self corrupting database system won't sell....). Recovering from a corruption all depends on where the corruption actually lies, which is not entirely blind luck. Since most corruption issues are only put into affect when a database is being read/locked/written, what you are reading/writing is usually going to be the place where the corruption lies. So it could be data within a table, table defs, indexes, code, etc. Practically everything used within a database. So not only are all database features designed to NOT corrupt the database, but they are also all prone to fail, if file corruption does occur. On top of that, all features have their own quirks as to the difficulties of recovering. Corruption in the data isn't too bad, since you'll just get a bad record or two. Corruption in code is more difficult, because it will probably lock up quite a bit of the code, but that can be returned. Corruption within a tabledef, or index can affect whether the data is easily retrievable, since JET uses them when retrieving it. Hope that clears up some of the mystery for you. Drew -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of John Bartow Sent: Friday, March 26, 2004 10:39 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] Lookup Fields in Table Design Hi Drew, Don't misunderstand me, your points are well taken, and you have my utmost respect as a developer/programmer. Corruption is just a hot spot on my psyche. If I knew HOW it was caused it would be different and that's the issue - apparently no one (including M$) does or they would prevent it. Even when considering that M$ allows some things to happen/not happen as a bone thrown to its third party developers, no one has a corruption fixing utility that works and is making money off of. "Data goes into black box - gets corrupted - data doesn't come out of black box." That's actually my biggest concern with Access. The absolute (publicly) undocumented proprietary nature of it. Sometimes I think the (publicly) can be left out of the statement. I'm actually quite surprised by the results of this little debate. Ken, Charlotte, Dev, Lebans and others all warn against it. I think the question I posed here to Susan concerning lookups originally came to mind about 5 years ago when I saw it on Dev's website under the "ten rules". I don't follow "rules" - when I see the word "rule" my mind automatically translates it to "strong guideline", but it made me curious. Like I said I don't generally use lookups, I have, and I will if the situation calls for them again. -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of DWUTKA at marlow.com Sent: Friday, March 26, 2004 1:17 AM To: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com; accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: RE: [AccessD] Lookup Fields in Table Design John, the points are cute, but the problem is that Lookup fields do NOT cause corruption. He said they made it more difficult to fix. There are a TON of things (that everyone uses) that make repairing corruption more difficult. Essentially, if you make a blank database, and put it on CD, you stand the best chances of recovering that database when it's completely blank, and never used. Once you start adding data, code, objecs, etc, you are adding things which can complicate a recovery. So it's a no pointer / moot point, to say that lookup's made a particular recovery difficult. If there had been a bit of error handling code, which got in the way of recovering a database, would you say 'I'll never use Error Handling code, because it made my life difficult once'? I didn't think so. Drew -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From DWUTKA at marlow.com Sun Mar 28 04:04:48 2004 From: DWUTKA at marlow.com (DWUTKA at marlow.com) Date: Sun, 28 Mar 2004 04:04:48 -0600 Subject: [AccessD] Lookup Fields in Table Design Message-ID: <2F8793082E00D4119A1700B0D0216BF8022279F3@main2.marlow.com> I'd leave Floridians out of it. We all know how well they can handle a voting system. Good thing they aren't keeping score for us! LOL Drew -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Sent: 3/27/04 3:53 PM Subject: RE: [AccessD] Lookup Fields in Table Design -5 points to everyone in Florida! ;o) -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of William Hindman Sent: Saturday, March 27, 2004 12:45 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Lookup Fields in Table Design ...at long, long, long, long last!!!! ...a post in this endless, angels on a pinhead, thread that actually would produce a positive result in my workday world :))))))))) ...thank god that Fridays usually kill the unkillable threads of the past week :((( William Hindman ipsedixitism: something is true because I myself have said it is true ...the philosophy of Noam Chomsky :) ----- Original Message ----- From: "John W. Colby" To: "Access Developers discussion and problem solving" Sent: Friday, March 26, 2004 10:53 PM Subject: RE: [AccessD] Lookup Fields in Table Design > The real answer to this is to just shoot all users. Problem solved! > > John W. Colby > www.ColbyConsulting.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From DWUTKA at marlow.com Sun Mar 28 04:05:58 2004 From: DWUTKA at marlow.com (DWUTKA at marlow.com) Date: Sun, 28 Mar 2004 04:05:58 -0600 Subject: [AccessD] Lookup Fields in Table Design Message-ID: <2F8793082E00D4119A1700B0D0216BF8022279F4@main2.marlow.com> I'll take the hit, but I'm curious, how would you paraphrase what Ken is saying? Drew -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Sent: 3/27/04 3:53 PM Subject: RE: [AccessD] Lookup Fields in Table Design unnecessarily derogatory remark -.5 sayers Score: nay-sayers 4 / sayers 7.5 -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of DWUTKA at marlow.com Sent: Saturday, March 27, 2004 11:59 AM To: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com; accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: RE: [AccessD] Lookup Fields in Table Design Thank you! I was beginning to think that I was talking to a wall there. Everything I have tested shows that the DefaultControl property does absolutely nothing to how JET retrieves data, and only slightly affects how JET stores data (because it does setup a relationship, if you have an ID field with a lookup of a related table. But it's no more 'work' then if you just set the relationship up in the database, in the first place. All I'm getting from Ken is, 'It's just not standard practice, so it must be bad'. Ugh. Drew -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Sent: 3/26/04 8:26 PM Subject: RE: [AccessD] Lookup Fields in Table Design On 26 Mar 2004 at 19:35, Ken Ismert wrote: > > >It doesn't affect that, BECAUSE it's a property that is only > >looked at by the Wizards, NOT by Jet, when retrieving the data. > > Its used in queries too. Queries inherit this stuff from the table they are > based on. > Queries don't use it. The object which Access uses to display the results of queries does. If I pull a "Select * from tblMyTable", my recordset doesn't know anything about the combobox bound to fldMyLookup - or about any table used for the lookup on that field. If however, I use the Query Datasheet to display it, the datasheet will look at the table definition to determine how it is displayed by default (which can be overwritten by defining a different display format in the query grid itself). In essence, the lookup property(ies) of a field in a table are no different to the Format, and Caption properties. They are used to define the *default* way that the data in the table is displayed in the GUI. You can overwrite this default in any query grid, form control, report control that you create. It has nothing to do with how a recordset is actually retreived by Jet. -- Lexacorp Ltd http://www.lexacorp.com.pg Information Technology Consultancy, Software Development,System Support. -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From DWUTKA at marlow.com Sun Mar 28 04:07:02 2004 From: DWUTKA at marlow.com (DWUTKA at marlow.com) Date: Sun, 28 Mar 2004 04:07:02 -0600 Subject: [AccessD] Lookup Fields in Table Design Message-ID: <2F8793082E00D4119A1700B0D0216BF8022279F5@main2.marlow.com> Just a side note, if anyone does use that code, it is going to set your Yes/No fields to a textbox too, so I would check for that in the code, unless you want them that way. Realized that after I posted it. I did say it was nitty gritty. Drew -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Sent: 3/27/04 3:53 PM Subject: RE: [AccessD] Lookup Fields in Table Design Oh, well see it was simple ;o) Score Stands at: nay-sayers 4 / sayers 8 -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of DWUTKA at marlow.com Sent: Friday, March 26, 2004 3:22 PM To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: RE: [AccessD] Lookup Fields in Table Design It's nitty gritty, but it does the job: On Error Resume Next Dim db As Database Dim tblTemp As TableDef Dim fld As Field Set db = CurrentDb For Each tblTemp In db.TableDefs For Each fld In tblTemp.Fields If fld.Properties("DisplayControl") <> 109 Then If Err = 0 Then fld.Properties("DisplayControl").Value = 109 Else Err.Clear End If End If Next Next Set db = Nothing Drew -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Ken Ismert Sent: Friday, March 26, 2004 2:33 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: [AccessD] Lookup Fields in Table Design McCool. If you have code that does that, I'd love to see it. -Ken -----Original Message----- From: John Bartow [mailto:john at winhaven.net] Sent: Friday, March 26, 2004 12:00 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] Lookup Fields in Table Design Here's a stretch but... For people that like to use the added form designing capabilites of the lookup property, once the table design and realtionships are complete you could set the desired lookup properties. Design all of the forms for the application. When the application design is complete you could run code that iterates the table collection and eliminates all lookup properties in the table design. This in essence would eliminate the corruption and performance issues. Eh? -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Charlotte Foust Sent: Friday, March 26, 2004 11:39 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] Lookup Fields in Table Design There is also the issue of TableID limits, which I believe include all the tables involved as lookups. Charlotte Foust -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From DWUTKA at marlow.com Sun Mar 28 04:22:40 2004 From: DWUTKA at marlow.com (DWUTKA at marlow.com) Date: Sun, 28 Mar 2004 04:22:40 -0600 Subject: [AccessD] Lookup Fields in Table Design - Coup de Grace Message-ID: <2F8793082E00D4119A1700B0D0216BF8022279F6@main2.marlow.com> First, don't point yourself. John seems to be doing a fine job there, and seems to be relatively impartial. Next, this is going to be hard to reply to, without being derogatory. So take this with a grain of salt. First, you are talking about a database system written for the US. Someone takes that db, and modifies it for another country. Then, you want to merge the two systems. Now, if the ONLY problem you have are lookup fields, I would say you can just count your blessings. The entire point of this conversation is to determine if there is anything actually wrong with Lookup fields. That doesn't mean that something can't go wrong, but whether there is an inherent flaw in their abilities to perform their actual purpose. You can take practically any feature of practically any software package, and turn it into a flaw, if used outside of the scope of it's original design. You started out with 'it's a performance hit' and 'It takes up extra space'. I then showed that it wasn't a performance hit, and it didn't take up any extra space (if it's indexed, and a relation, you get the same space used whether you use a lookup field or not). You did mention that it is confusing, but my point (and other 'Sayers') is that you can't label it wrong to use if some users are confused. Once again, I am not arguing your preference. I am REALLY not arguing that you should use them. What I am trying to get at, is that we, as a development group, shouldn't label something as 'bad practice', if the only problem involved is just knowledge of how something works. I write a lot of code, and I can't tell you how many things I have coded, which involved code that would wreak total havoc, if it isn't done right. Take for example, subclassing forms. In Access it's bad enough that Access forms are already subclassed, but in VB, you will shoot yourself in the foot, if you run subclassed forms in debug mode, and DON'T un-subclass them before you stop your code. However, I wouldn't say that subclassing a form is bad practice, it's just something you have to use with caution. More importantly, it's something you have to use with an intimate knowledge of it. That actually applies to practically anything. One of my favorite quotes is: 'He who learns, but does not think is lost. He who thinks, but does not learn is in grave danger.' If you apply that to developing a database, if you read a help book, and follow it step by step, you're not really thinking about what you are using, and therefore, you're going to end up lost when it comes time to figuring out what is wrong. At the same time, if you think about what you are doing, but don't learn from the results, then you're REALLY going to shoot yourself in the foot. Drew -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Sent: 3/27/04 4:57 PM Subject: RE: [AccessD] Lookup Fields in Table Design - Coup de Grace A little scenario: At the international company you work for, you have been given two customer databases to work with. One is for your US data, the other from Mexico. Inspecting both, you can clearly see that, years ago, the Mexican db was adapted from the US original. In each db, you see two tables you're interested in, tblAddresses and tblStates. While the Mexican tblAddresses has been modified somewhat, tblStates has remained unchanged, with two fields, StateID and Name, both text. The US version of tblStates contains Alabama to Wyoming, while the Mexican one naturally contains Aguascalientes to Zacatecas, with their abbreviations in the StateID field. Critically, you also notice that table field lookups were also defined for the StateID field in each tblAddresses table. So, you build your frontend and link the US tables. You also link the Mexican tables, which show up as tblAddresses1 and tblStates1. Next, you open the linked tblAddresses (US version). The table lookups do their job, showing 'Alabama' for AL, etc. Happy, you open the linked tblAddresses1 (Mexican version) ... wait ... all hell has broken loose! Instead of the Mexican state names, you see only the StateID codes, along with some US State names ... what the!?!? After some digging, you find the problem: the table field lookup in the Mexican version of tblAddresses. While it works correctly in the backend, it fails in the frontend, because the lookup SQL in the linked tblAddresses1 now refers to the *linked* tblState, which holds the US data, not tblState1, which holds the correct Mexican data! This demonstrates that table field lookups, by themselves, can cause incorrect query results. But it gets worse. The original programmer that setup the databases didn't know too much about table design, and did not establish a relationship between tblAddresses and tblStates, only indexes. This means that you now have a situation where you can enter incorrect values into a table from the wrong lookup table! If you were under pressure, and didn't catch this error, and allowed data entry on a frontend with this problem, the results would be disastrous. What has been shown here, and validated in my testing, is that table field lookups can cause inaccurate results, and an insidious form of data corruption. It is important to emphasize that table field lookups are the single point of failure in this scenario. Removing them from the backend tables solves the problem, by making you match the correct main/lookup tables in a frontend query. If you had used any method other than table field lookups initially, you would have avoided this fiasco completely. By violating the principle of client/server separation, and embedding client-side UI elements in data tables, table field lookups are data land mines, just waiting to bite you at some later date. When you use them, you are embedding an implicit external context assumption into your table. In this case, the assumption was 'my external name will always be tblState'. Anytime this assumption is violated, table field lookups will fail. For this, and the other reasons that I have outlined, table field lookups are a BAD IDEA. Match point: Naysayers. Game: Naysayers. Hey, Susan ... your marshmallows have grown cold!. Pass 'em over here, I'm in the mood for s'mores! -Ken -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From mcaro at bigpond.net.au Sun Mar 28 05:05:37 2004 From: mcaro at bigpond.net.au (Martin Caro) Date: Sun, 28 Mar 2004 21:05:37 +1000 Subject: [AccessD] Closing Forms References: <001601c41455$c87234c0$0100000a@mirridong> <285107934.20040328113716@cactus.dk> Message-ID: <001201c414b4$99927e80$0100000a@mirridong> Thanks Gustav That did the trick....another technique learnt! Martin ----- Original Message ----- From: "Gustav Brock" To: "Access Developers discussion and problem solving" Sent: Sunday, March 28, 2004 7:37 PM Subject: Re: [AccessD] Closing Forms > Hi Martin > > > At times I have 3 or 4 forms open at once and may want to return to the main menu form from any of those and at the same time closing all forms except the main menu form. Can anyone tell me why the > > following function after closing only one form via the Case else will not continue to work through the forms group and close multiple forms? > > > Public Function CloseForms(FromForm As String) > > Dim frm As Form > > For Each frm In Forms > > Select Case frm.Name > > Case Is = "frmMainMenu" > > 'Dont close it > > Case Is = FromForm > > 'Dont close the form that called this yet > > Case Else > > 'Close any other form > > MsgBox ("The form being closed is " & frm.Name) > > DoCmd.close acForm, frm.Name, acSaveNo > > End Select > > Next frm > > End Function > > You are probably destroying the collection Forms moving forwards. > Most solutions to this task browse backwards through the collection > like this: > > > > Public Function CloseForms(FromForm As String) > > Dim strForm As String > Dim lngForm As Long > > For lngForm = Forms.Count - 1 To 0 Step -1 > strForm = Forms(lngForm).Name > Select Case strForm > Case Is = "frmMainMenu" > 'Dont close it > Case Is = FromForm > 'Dont close the form that called this yet > Case Else > 'Close any other form > MsgBox ("The form being closed is " & strForm) > DoCmd.close acForm, strForm, acSaveNo > End Select > Next > > End Function > > > > /gustav > > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From andy at minstersystems.co.uk Sun Mar 28 05:12:52 2004 From: andy at minstersystems.co.uk (Andy Lacey) Date: Sun, 28 Mar 2004 12:12:52 +0100 Subject: [AccessD] Lookup Fields in Table Design In-Reply-To: <2F8793082E00D4119A1700B0D0216BF8022279F3@main2.marlow.com> Message-ID: <001801c414b5$9cc30880$b274d0d5@minster33c3r25> Is it just me, or is this thread consuming enormous amounts of bandwidth to little purpose? Is there ANY chance it might stop one day? Could you not call it a draw - and accept that, like so much else in Access/life, some people like it and some don't? Each side has made their points (over and over) and anyone thinking of using Lookups can now read what's been read, and caveat user. -- Andy Lacey http://www.minstersystems.co.uk > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of > DWUTKA at marlow.com > Sent: 28 March 2004 11:05 > To: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com; accessd at databaseadvisors.com > Subject: RE: [AccessD] Lookup Fields in Table Design > > > I'd leave Floridians out of it. We all know how well they > can handle a voting system. > > Good thing they aren't keeping score for us! LOL > > Drew > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Sent: 3/27/04 3:53 PM > Subject: RE: [AccessD] Lookup Fields in Table Design > > -5 points to everyone in Florida! > > ;o) > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of > William Hindman > Sent: Saturday, March 27, 2004 12:45 AM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: Re: [AccessD] Lookup Fields in Table Design > > > ...at long, long, long, long last!!!! > > ...a post in this endless, angels on a pinhead, thread that > actually would produce a positive result in my workday world > :))))))))) > > ...thank god that Fridays usually kill the unkillable threads > of the past week :((( > > William Hindman > ipsedixitism: something is true because I myself have said it > is true ...the philosophy of Noam Chomsky :) > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "John W. Colby" > To: "Access Developers discussion and problem solving" > > Sent: Friday, March 26, 2004 10:53 PM > Subject: RE: [AccessD] Lookup Fields in Table Design > > > > The real answer to this is to just shoot all users. Problem solved! > > > > John W. Colby > > www.ColbyConsulting.com > > > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/a> ccessd > Website: > http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > -- > > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/a> ccessd > Website: > http://www.databaseadvisors.com > -- > > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/a> ccessd > Website: > http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > From andy at minstersystems.co.uk Sun Mar 28 06:27:41 2004 From: andy at minstersystems.co.uk (Andy Lacey) Date: Sun, 28 Mar 2004 13:27:41 +0100 Subject: [AccessD] 1st Anglo-Australian DBA Conference In-Reply-To: <8729197113.20040327190109@cactus.dk> Message-ID: <001901c414c0$10b8cf40$b274d0d5@minster33c3r25> Yea, sorry about that but arrangements were a little hurried, i.e. made in principle the morning before and in detail about 1 minute before stepping inside the place. -- Andy Lacey http://www.minstersystems.co.uk > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of > Gustav Brock > Sent: 27 March 2004 18:01 > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: Re: [AccessD] 1st Anglo-Australian DBA Conference > > > Hi Jim > > Small, you bet ... no announcement was made. > 1st Secret DBA Conference? > How do one know when the next will take place? > (You guessed it: you won't!) > > Anyway, nice to see you abandoned the terrible Foster beer - > probably (you can't tell from the picture) in favour of the > high-quality domestic wine! > > /gustav > > > > The 1st Anglo-Australian DBA Conference was held a short > while ago. It > > may have been small but it is a start. www.databaseadvisors.com > > > Jim > > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/a> ccessd > Website: > http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > From wdhindman at bellsouth.net Sun Mar 28 07:14:36 2004 From: wdhindman at bellsouth.net (William Hindman) Date: Sun, 28 Mar 2004 08:14:36 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Lookup Fields in Table Design References: <001801c414b5$9cc30880$b274d0d5@minster33c3r25> Message-ID: <001301c414c6$9e993f60$6101a8c0@dejpolsys> ...ah ...welcome to Florida Andy ...we may not be able to count votes but, just like the butterfly ballot, we sure as hell know when something has been beat to death a hundred times over! :)))))) William Hindman ipsedixitism: something is true because I myself have said it is true ...the philosophy of Noam Chomsky :) ----- Original Message ----- From: "Andy Lacey" To: "'Access Developers discussion and problem solving'" Sent: Sunday, March 28, 2004 6:12 AM Subject: RE: [AccessD] Lookup Fields in Table Design > Is it just me, or is this thread consuming enormous amounts of bandwidth to > little purpose? Is there ANY chance it might stop one day? Could you not > call it a draw - and accept that, like so much else in Access/life, some > people like it and some don't? Each side has made their points (over and > over) and anyone thinking of using Lookups can now read what's been read, > and caveat user. > > -- Andy Lacey > http://www.minstersystems.co.uk > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of > > DWUTKA at marlow.com > > Sent: 28 March 2004 11:05 > > To: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com; accessd at databaseadvisors.com > > Subject: RE: [AccessD] Lookup Fields in Table Design > > > > > > I'd leave Floridians out of it. We all know how well they > > can handle a voting system. > > > > Good thing they aren't keeping score for us! LOL > > > > Drew > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > > Sent: 3/27/04 3:53 PM > > Subject: RE: [AccessD] Lookup Fields in Table Design > > > > -5 points to everyone in Florida! > > > > ;o) > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of > > William Hindman > > Sent: Saturday, March 27, 2004 12:45 AM > > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > > Subject: Re: [AccessD] Lookup Fields in Table Design > > > > > > ...at long, long, long, long last!!!! > > > > ...a post in this endless, angels on a pinhead, thread that > > actually would produce a positive result in my workday world > > :))))))))) > > > > ...thank god that Fridays usually kill the unkillable threads > > of the past week :((( > > > > William Hindman > > ipsedixitism: something is true because I myself have said it > > is true ...the philosophy of Noam Chomsky :) > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: "John W. Colby" > > To: "Access Developers discussion and problem solving" > > > > Sent: Friday, March 26, 2004 10:53 PM > > Subject: RE: [AccessD] Lookup Fields in Table Design > > > > > > > The real answer to this is to just shoot all users. Problem solved! > > > > > > John W. Colby > > > www.ColbyConsulting.com > > > > > > -- > > _______________________________________________ > > AccessD mailing list > > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/a> ccessd > > Website: > > http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > > > > > -- > > > > _______________________________________________ > > AccessD mailing list > > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/a> ccessd > > Website: > > http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > -- > > > > _______________________________________________ > > AccessD mailing list > > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/a> ccessd > > Website: > > http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > > > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > From pedro at plex.nl Sun Mar 28 09:43:22 2004 From: pedro at plex.nl (Pedro Janssen) Date: Sun, 28 Mar 2004 17:43:22 +0200 Subject: [AccessD] error in report Message-ID: <000801c414db$8d42b8d0$f2c581d5@pedro> Hello group, i use an unbound textbox to calculate the total of a number field in a report. I used: =Nz(sum([Name of field])) or =sum([Name of field]). When i open the preview i get #error. What is wrong. Pedro Janssen From andy at minstersystems.co.uk Sun Mar 28 09:57:29 2004 From: andy at minstersystems.co.uk (Andy Lacey) Date: Sun, 28 Mar 2004 16:57:29 +0100 Subject: [AccessD] error in report In-Reply-To: <000801c414db$8d42b8d0$f2c581d5@pedro> Message-ID: <002001c414dd$5f501bf0$b274d0d5@minster33c3r25> Pedro Are you sure you're referring to the column returned by the report's source query, not the name of a field on the report? -- Andy Lacey http://www.minstersystems.co.uk > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of > Pedro Janssen > Sent: 28 March 2004 16:43 > To: AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > Subject: [AccessD] error in report > > > Hello group, > > i use an unbound textbox to calculate the total of a number > field in a report. I used: =Nz(sum([Name of field])) or > =sum([Name of field]). > When i open the preview i get #error. What is wrong. > > > Pedro Janssen > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/a> ccessd > Website: > http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > From carbonnb at sympatico.ca Sun Mar 28 11:16:16 2004 From: carbonnb at sympatico.ca (Bryan Carbonnell) Date: Sun, 28 Mar 2004 12:16:16 -0500 Subject: Spelling was RE: [AccessD] Lookup Fields in Table Design In-Reply-To: References: <20040327221629.IMIZ1781.imf18aec.mail.bellsouth.net@SUSANONE> Message-ID: <4066C210.25980.336063@localhost> On 27 Mar 2004 at 16:47, John Bartow wrote: > E-gads! I wrote "behaviour" and the spell check caught it. I catch > myself writing "grey" and "colour" a lot too. I'm melting... What's wrong with those spellings? Nothing wrong with them from where I'm sitting. :) -- Bryan Carbonnell - carbonnb at sympatico.ca You can go anywhere you want if you look serious and carry a clipboard. From john at winhaven.net Sun Mar 28 12:53:22 2004 From: john at winhaven.net (John Bartow) Date: Sun, 28 Mar 2004 12:53:22 -0600 Subject: [AccessD] Lookup Fields in Table Design In-Reply-To: <2F8793082E00D4119A1700B0D0216BF8022279F4@main2.marlow.com> Message-ID: I wouldn't. I'd ask him to clarify what he is saying based on the latest discussion items. :o) -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of DWUTKA at marlow.com Sent: Sunday, March 28, 2004 4:06 AM To: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com; accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: RE: [AccessD] Lookup Fields in Table Design I'll take the hit, but I'm curious, how would you paraphrase what Ken is saying? Drew From ssharkins at bellsouth.net Sun Mar 28 12:58:00 2004 From: ssharkins at bellsouth.net (Susan Harkins) Date: Sun, 28 Mar 2004 13:58:00 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Lookup Fields in Table Design In-Reply-To: <001301c414c6$9e993f60$6101a8c0@dejpolsys> Message-ID: <20040328185759.QYGS1781.imf18aec.mail.bellsouth.net@SUSANONE> Why do men get so grouchy in their old age? Andy and William -- if you don't want to read the thread, can you not ignore it? Are you trying to tell us that because you find no value in the discussion, that the discussion is therefore valueless? I'm sure that's not really what you mean to say. Ignore the discussion if you're not getting anything out of it. We all ignore threads all the time. Let them hash it out. I'm pretty much done with the thread myself, but this is the one thing that some of you do that really annoys me. Leave the thread be. If it's gets off topic, then kill it. FWIW, you probably have pretty much killed it with your caustic remarks -- I wish you guys wouldn't do that. It intimidates people. Susan H. ...ah ...welcome to Florida Andy ...we may not be able to count votes but, just like the butterfly ballot, we sure as hell know when something has been beat to death a hundred times over! :)))))) From john at winhaven.net Sun Mar 28 13:02:36 2004 From: john at winhaven.net (John Bartow) Date: Sun, 28 Mar 2004 13:02:36 -0600 Subject: [AccessD] Lookup Fields in Table Design In-Reply-To: <2F8793082E00D4119A1700B0D0216BF8022279F1@main2.marlow.com> Message-ID: True. -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of DWUTKA at marlow.com Sent: Sunday, March 28, 2004 4:00 AM To: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com; accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: RE: [AccessD] Lookup Fields in Table Design Well it's hard to argue with that. But then again, how many database systems (which you pay for), hand out their actual inner workings? Technically speaking, you can get to your data without JET, it's just not as well organized as it is WITH JET. Drew -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Sent: 3/27/04 3:16 PM Subject: RE: [AccessD] Lookup Fields in Table Design Yes, so I will now change: "Data goes into black box - gets corrupted - data doesn't come out of black box." To: "Data goes into gray box - gets corrupted - data doesn't come out of gray box." ;o) It did help though explain the issue sayers regain +.5 Score: nay-sayers 4 / sayers 8 John -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of DWUTKA at marlow.com Sent: Friday, March 26, 2004 1:28 PM To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: RE: [AccessD] Lookup Fields in Table Design I'm shocked. I used Dev's site quite a bit, when I started out with Access. I really admire a lot of what he has done. However, I think a lot of what he has about Lookup Fields on there are wrong. I just changed my test, from a simple State lookup, to a StateID --> StateName setup. Added an ID (autonumber) field to tblStates, and then updated the data in my 'main' table to have the ID's, instead of the abbreviation. Then I switched it to a number field. I then copied the database again, and switched the copy to be a lookup field for the StateID. Compacted both (a little over 200,000 records in both), and NO difference in size. Without indexing... querying is the same speed, with indexing, the querying is still the same speed. However, I now noticed a difference in size, with a lookup field, when the field is indexed. That is definitely interesting. However, that goes away, if you use a callback function. VERY interesting. Have to give them half a point back, because there is a small amount of 'bloat', if you use a query/table for the lookup. But it's negligible, and also, both databases grow when you index the field, just grows a bit more. I would never really call that 'bloat'. Not trying to back track, but to me, bloat is when a database grows in size over time, but when compacted, it gets smaller. The portion that is 'reduced' is bloat. The portion left after the compact is 'overhead'. That's my definition. Admittedly, if you are going to run close to max db size, then lookups should be removed, to get that much more space. But we are talking overhead space, not really 'bloat'. As far as the compacting issue, that's another story. Microsoft has several good reasons for not releasing the inner workings of JET. First of all, there is the licensing issue. If you developed a software package you wanted people to buy, would you give anyone the source? Of course not. If MS gave out the inner workings of JET, it wouldn't be long until Access was unnecessary, because people would just roll their own JET engine. Another reason is support. Jet does a lot of stuff, so even if they did hand out the detailed specs, one little slip, and even a good developer could seriously fry an .mdb. There is nothing mysterious about corruption. It's usually easy to explain, and in most cases is fixable. What you must remember, is that file corruption is NOT limited to .mdb's. It can happen in any type of file. The difference between Access and other file types, however, is what makes it seem like more of an issue. A few years ago, our network was in a serious state of disrepair. We had file corruptions all over the place. That included Word and Excel files, and definitely included .mdb's. A file is nothing more then a series of bytes. With a bad network, flaky hard drive, corrupted OS, (and a million other reasons), it certainly is not impossible to goof a few bytes here and there. Now, depending on what kind of file it is, and what that file does, is going to determine how the corruption affects things. Take, for example, an .exe or .dll. Those files contain CPU instructions. Have you ever had a program start crashing on you? After an Uninstall and reinstall, everything is working again. A lot of times that is due to a file corruption. One corrupted (changed) byte in a .dll or .exe, and you are now changing how the CPU deals with that code. All sorts of things can happen. However, in something like and HTML file, HTML is designed to ignore what it doesn't understand, so it's nearly impossible to have normal file corruption do any real 'damage' to an HMTL file. The more common issues with Word and Excel are the 'locking' files. Something will goof in them, and then that file is locked out. Since Word/Excel is saving changes in those temp files, actual corruption in the original document is more rare (but not unheard of...excel and word have to update the original document when you save it, so that is when corruption can occur there). With an .mdb file, JET is monitoring who has what locked, is reading/updating indexes, reading/updating data, etc. A lot of activity in one file. The .ldb file is only storing who's logged in (and it is also used for locks within the .mdb, but other then the who's logged in, no other data is being changed in the .ldb, only locking bytes). Get a goofed byte in the mix, and things can either continue, go seriously awry, or somewhere in between. just depends what was affected. A lot of time, the corruption is simply someone's machine not 'closing' out of the database correctly. That is easily repaired. But if bytes are corrupted in the indexes, the table definitions, or in the code, that is something the system doesn't know how to 'replace', because it doesn't have a 'template' or 'starting point' to replace it with. As far as I know, the ONLY design issue KNOWN to corrupt a database, happens to lie with a problem between JET and Foxpro. Something about the differences between how JET deals with Memo fields, and Foxpro deals with them. Access does NOT corrupt .mdb's, it is an outside influence that does that. That is a VERY important concept to remember. Because of that, there are NO features within Access that will corrupt a database. (Yes, a feature could be programmed wrong, but Microsoft would eventually fix that with a service pack, because a self corrupting database system won't sell....). Recovering from a corruption all depends on where the corruption actually lies, which is not entirely blind luck. Since most corruption issues are only put into affect when a database is being read/locked/written, what you are reading/writing is usually going to be the place where the corruption lies. So it could be data within a table, table defs, indexes, code, etc. Practically everything used within a database. So not only are all database features designed to NOT corrupt the database, but they are also all prone to fail, if file corruption does occur. On top of that, all features have their own quirks as to the difficulties of recovering. Corruption in the data isn't too bad, since you'll just get a bad record or two. Corruption in code is more difficult, because it will probably lock up quite a bit of the code, but that can be returned. Corruption within a tabledef, or index can affect whether the data is easily retrievable, since JET uses them when retrieving it. Hope that clears up some of the mystery for you. Drew -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of John Bartow Sent: Friday, March 26, 2004 10:39 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] Lookup Fields in Table Design Hi Drew, Don't misunderstand me, your points are well taken, and you have my utmost respect as a developer/programmer. Corruption is just a hot spot on my psyche. If I knew HOW it was caused it would be different and that's the issue - apparently no one (including M$) does or they would prevent it. Even when considering that M$ allows some things to happen/not happen as a bone thrown to its third party developers, no one has a corruption fixing utility that works and is making money off of. "Data goes into black box - gets corrupted - data doesn't come out of black box." That's actually my biggest concern with Access. The absolute (publicly) undocumented proprietary nature of it. Sometimes I think the (publicly) can be left out of the statement. I'm actually quite surprised by the results of this little debate. Ken, Charlotte, Dev, Lebans and others all warn against it. I think the question I posed here to Susan concerning lookups originally came to mind about 5 years ago when I saw it on Dev's website under the "ten rules". I don't follow "rules" - when I see the word "rule" my mind automatically translates it to "strong guideline", but it made me curious. Like I said I don't generally use lookups, I have, and I will if the situation calls for them again. -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of DWUTKA at marlow.com Sent: Friday, March 26, 2004 1:17 AM To: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com; accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: RE: [AccessD] Lookup Fields in Table Design John, the points are cute, but the problem is that Lookup fields do NOT cause corruption. He said they made it more difficult to fix. There are a TON of things (that everyone uses) that make repairing corruption more difficult. Essentially, if you make a blank database, and put it on CD, you stand the best chances of recovering that database when it's completely blank, and never used. Once you start adding data, code, objecs, etc, you are adding things which can complicate a recovery. So it's a no pointer / moot point, to say that lookup's made a particular recovery difficult. If there had been a bit of error handling code, which got in the way of recovering a database, would you say 'I'll never use Error Handling code, because it made my life difficult once'? I didn't think so. Drew -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com Sun Mar 28 13:10:28 2004 From: jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com (John W. Colby) Date: Sun, 28 Mar 2004 14:10:28 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Lookup Fields in Table Design In-Reply-To: <20040328185759.QYGS1781.imf18aec.mail.bellsouth.net@SUSANONE> Message-ID: >FWIW, you probably have pretty much killed it with your caustic remarks -- I wish you guys wouldn't do that. It intimidates people. As one who loves to beat a subject to death myself, I couldn't agree more. John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Susan Harkins Sent: Sunday, March 28, 2004 1:58 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: [AccessD] Lookup Fields in Table Design Why do men get so grouchy in their old age? Andy and William -- if you don't want to read the thread, can you not ignore it? Are you trying to tell us that because you find no value in the discussion, that the discussion is therefore valueless? I'm sure that's not really what you mean to say. Ignore the discussion if you're not getting anything out of it. We all ignore threads all the time. Let them hash it out. I'm pretty much done with the thread myself, but this is the one thing that some of you do that really annoys me. Leave the thread be. If it's gets off topic, then kill it. FWIW, you probably have pretty much killed it with your caustic remarks -- I wish you guys wouldn't do that. It intimidates people. Susan H. ...ah ...welcome to Florida Andy ...we may not be able to count votes but, just like the butterfly ballot, we sure as hell know when something has been beat to death a hundred times over! :)))))) -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From john at winhaven.net Sun Mar 28 13:12:03 2004 From: john at winhaven.net (John Bartow) Date: Sun, 28 Mar 2004 13:12:03 -0600 Subject: [AccessD] Lookup Fields in Table Design In-Reply-To: <001801c414b5$9cc30880$b274d0d5@minster33c3r25> Message-ID: Hi Andy, So far only 2 people have complained. And both of you are quite experienced developers. I think it is winding down though. Looks like you had fun at your "conference"! :o) -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Andy Lacey Sent: Sunday, March 28, 2004 5:13 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: [AccessD] Lookup Fields in Table Design Is it just me, or is this thread consuming enormous amounts of bandwidth to little purpose? Is there ANY chance it might stop one day? Could you not call it a draw - and accept that, like so much else in Access/life, some people like it and some don't? Each side has made their points (over and over) and anyone thinking of using Lookups can now read what's been read, and caveat user. -- Andy Lacey http://www.minstersystems.co.uk > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of > DWUTKA at marlow.com > Sent: 28 March 2004 11:05 > To: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com; accessd at databaseadvisors.com > Subject: RE: [AccessD] Lookup Fields in Table Design > > > I'd leave Floridians out of it. We all know how well they > can handle a voting system. > > Good thing they aren't keeping score for us! LOL > > Drew > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Sent: 3/27/04 3:53 PM > Subject: RE: [AccessD] Lookup Fields in Table Design > > -5 points to everyone in Florida! > > ;o) > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of > William Hindman > Sent: Saturday, March 27, 2004 12:45 AM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: Re: [AccessD] Lookup Fields in Table Design > > > ...at long, long, long, long last!!!! > > ...a post in this endless, angels on a pinhead, thread that > actually would produce a positive result in my workday world > :))))))))) > > ...thank god that Fridays usually kill the unkillable threads > of the past week :((( > > William Hindman > ipsedixitism: something is true because I myself have said it > is true ...the philosophy of Noam Chomsky :) > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "John W. Colby" > To: "Access Developers discussion and problem solving" > > Sent: Friday, March 26, 2004 10:53 PM > Subject: RE: [AccessD] Lookup Fields in Table Design > > > > The real answer to this is to just shoot all users. Problem solved! > > > > John W. Colby > > www.ColbyConsulting.com > > > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/a> ccessd > Website: > http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > -- > > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/a> ccessd > Website: > http://www.databaseadvisors.com > -- > > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/a> ccessd > Website: > http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From ssharkins at bellsouth.net Sun Mar 28 13:12:38 2004 From: ssharkins at bellsouth.net (Susan Harkins) Date: Sun, 28 Mar 2004 14:12:38 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Lookup Fields in Table Design In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <20040328191238.RCCX1781.imf18aec.mail.bellsouth.net@SUSANONE> Oh geez... Did I wake up in Oz this morning??????? ;) Susan H> As one who loves to beat a subject to death myself, I couldn't agree more. From john at winhaven.net Sun Mar 28 13:14:56 2004 From: john at winhaven.net (John Bartow) Date: Sun, 28 Mar 2004 13:14:56 -0600 Subject: [AccessD] Lookup Fields in Table Design In-Reply-To: <20040328185759.QYGS1781.imf18aec.mail.bellsouth.net@SUSANONE> Message-ID: I'm guessing (from the pictures) that Andy's got a bit of a hang-over going... ;o) -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Susan Harkins Sent: Sunday, March 28, 2004 12:58 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: [AccessD] Lookup Fields in Table Design Why do men get so grouchy in their old age? Andy and William -- if you don't want to read the thread, can you not ignore it? Are you trying to tell us that because you find no value in the discussion, that the discussion is therefore valueless? I'm sure that's not really what you mean to say. Ignore the discussion if you're not getting anything out of it. We all ignore threads all the time. Let them hash it out. I'm pretty much done with the thread myself, but this is the one thing that some of you do that really annoys me. Leave the thread be. If it's gets off topic, then kill it. FWIW, you probably have pretty much killed it with your caustic remarks -- I wish you guys wouldn't do that. It intimidates people. Susan H. ...ah ...welcome to Florida Andy ...we may not be able to count votes but, just like the butterfly ballot, we sure as hell know when something has been beat to death a hundred times over! :)))))) -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com Sun Mar 28 13:23:08 2004 From: jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com (John W. Colby) Date: Sun, 28 Mar 2004 14:23:08 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Lookup Fields in Table Design In-Reply-To: <20040328191238.RCCX1781.imf18aec.mail.bellsouth.net@SUSANONE> Message-ID: Without a sense of humor, life is meaningless. John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Susan Harkins Sent: Sunday, March 28, 2004 2:13 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: [AccessD] Lookup Fields in Table Design Oh geez... Did I wake up in Oz this morning??????? ;) Susan H> As one who loves to beat a subject to death myself, I couldn't agree more. -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com Sun Mar 28 13:38:37 2004 From: jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com (John W. Colby) Date: Sun, 28 Mar 2004 14:38:37 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Framework Discussion - Troubleshooting unload problems Message-ID: Framework ? Troubleshooting unload problems As I have mentioned, potentially the biggest problem with programming objects is getting them all unloaded reliably. In the best case this is easy and everything just works. Unfortunately we all know that eventually we will run into the worst case. In our case, the worst case is a class that holds a pointer to a form. The class fails to unload, the form never truly closes, Access appears to close but doesn?t, and a HUGE memory leak just occurred. Windows may refuse to close, particular the Win98 variants. Nasty stuff. How can this happen? As we know the framework uses a form class. The form class dimensions a form object WithEvents, a form object is passed in and saved in a variable in the class header. Each control class is passed a form object and stores the pointer in the control class? header. We just set up the scenario. Now suppose some smart developer wants to sink events from dclsFrm. Yes, dclsFrm raises events to inform the native form class that things have occurred. So the developer dimensions a dclsFrm variable and grabs a pointer to the class from the form?s variable. The new variable can be declared WithEvents, and sink the dclsFrm events which can be pretty useful. However, the user now tries to close the form. The form appears to close, however there is a pointer to the dclsFrm instance for that form that is not set to nothing, and voila, trouble! These kinds of problems are really not uncommon in class programming. Any object that broadcasts events can have pointers to it in multiple locations, all sinking those events. A class (or indeed any object) doesn?t truly close (unload from memory) until the last variable holding a pointer to the object is set to nothing. Not clearing out that ?last instance pointer? will absolutely prevent the object from unloading and may cause the nightmare scenario described in the second paragraph. The answer is not to avoid object programming, but to be aware of the potential problems and to build a tool to assist us in at least knowing that objects are still referenced when we believe they should be shut down. Pointers to objects (forms, controls and classes) can be stored in variables of type variant and object, in variables of the specific type of the object being stored, and in collections (which are if I?m not mistaken just variables in a special stack like structure.). It would be convenient if we could pass a variable that we wanted a pointer to the class stored in to the class itself. In other words, tell the class to ?store a pointer to yourself in this variable?. This would allow the class itself to then place a pointer to each such variable in a collection inside the class. Now the class could ?clean up EVERY pointer to itself? just by iterating that collection and setting each variable = nothing, then removing the variable from its collection. Unfortunately this just isn?t an option that can be enforced and without the enforcement it becomes more trouble than it is worth. The point of this discussion is to familiarize the reader with why the problem exists and how it really does become a problem, and that there is no easy solution. If there is no easy solution, then at least we need to know when objects are failing to unload. If the developer is aware, and uses some basic troubleshooting techniques on a regular basis as the application is being developed, we can stay ahead of the problem. Building a system that loads the framework with 30 or 40 class instances, plus a dozen forms with several hundred class instances, and discovering that there are 70 class instances not unloading can cause a mild panic. However if we have some method of knowing every single instance loaded, we can load / unload objects and watch the object count left in memory, print out object name lists etc and discover where things are not unloaded. Knowing that, we can then go find the problem and solve it. Thus we might build a test for the SysVar class (for example) where we load it all by itself, without the framework. Make absolutely sure that all class instances loaded by the SysVar system unload correctly before we allow the Framework class to automatically load / unload the SysVar class. Even then, we would want to load the framework, then unload it and examine the class instance stack to see what is left loaded. Don?t go on until you can load / unload the framework and leave nothing in memory. Of course in order to do this we need a tool. In my previous versions of the framework I used a module with a set of private variables, a handful of collections and code to increment / decrement counts and store class instance names. While this worked, it had issues. In order to address these issues I am designing a class (of course) with all of the structures and code required to allow us to track classes loading and unloading. This class will hold an actual pointer to every class instance. I do this for a variety of reasons, first of which is that the variable holding the original pointer to the class may be difficult to find unless we can get at the class instance itself. Just knowing the name of the class instance is often unhelpful. The first thing we need to do is allow every class instance to register itself as it loads and unregister itself as it unloads. It turns out to be easy to do this, just call a ?register? function in Init() and an ?unregister? function in Term(). We could have the class call a function passing a pointer to itself (the class instance) and have that function save the pointer into a ?stack?. This is actually quite useful since we can now get at the class instance and run methods, query properties etc. However if you think about it for a minute, the Terminate() event of a class does not fire until the class unloads, thus if we try to save an actual pointer to the class we end up in a catch 22 where just setting the original pointer to the class to nothing doesn?t cause the class to unload since we have our saved pointer. Calling the class? term and having the class unload its saved pointer works just fine, but then if the original pointer is never set to nothing, the class never unloads. Further if there are other pointers to the class out there the class never unloads. However we think it unloaded because the pointer isn?t in the instance stack any more. For this reason we can?t simply use a class instance pointer stack by itself. In fact, if we do use an instance stack, then we MUST call the class? term() before setting the class variable to nothing or the class won? t unload for the reason discussed above. In fact, while I like the instance stack (collection of pointers to each instance) it is often not strictly necessary. If you don?t want it we will provide a method of not using that piece using a SysVar to turn on/off the instance stack. So even if we are going to use an instance pointer stack, we also need another tool to determine whether we really truly unloaded the class instance. Since we know that the class Terminate() event will not run unless it is specifically called inside the class (don?t do that!) or the class actually unloads we can build another stack of the class instance names and have the Terminate() event remove it?s instance name from this stack. Thus we have the very useful tool of a stack of actual pointers to every class instance (that we haven?t called the term() method of), and we have a backup tool of a stack of class instance names. The stack of names will only be cleared out by the class instances unloading, thus it is the ?failsafe? that tells us when we have indeed unloaded everything. If you followed this whole discussion, go to the head of the class. What we?re really saying is that we want to build a collection of pointers to class instances, but also a collection of just the names of the instances. The collection of the names will be the final judge of what got unloaded since the only way to remove a name from that collection is the Terminate of a given instance removing it. If we expose the count of these two collections, and the count differs, we have problems. We tried to unload something, but failed to really set the last pointer to it to nothing. The pointer to it was removed from the pointer collection but not from the name collection. Is all this really necessary? Well, yes. We can get along without the pointer collection, it is really a nicety. The collection of instance names however is a must ? it tells the truth about what doesn?t unload and we really want to know that! Implementation To implement the system for tracking, I built clsInstanceStack that will be instantiated one time, before the framework class. The class has all of the default properties and methods of any other class (uses clsTemplate). This class must be initialized and ready to go before anything else so that all other classes can use it to register themselves. Framework Initialization code: In the header of basFWInit we dimension a new variable mclsInstanceStack. Option Compare Database Option Explicit Private mclsInstanceStack As clsInstanceStack 'A single instance of the troubleshooting class. Private mclsFramework As clsFramework 'The framework foundation class Private mblnFWInitialized As Boolean 'A boolean to tell us that we have already initialized In FWInit we instantiate and initialize the new class first. ' 'The init function for the framework ' Public Function FWInit() If mblnFWInitialized = False Then ' mblnFWInitialized = True Randomize Set mclsInstanceStack = New clsInstanceStack mclsInstanceStack.Init Nothing Set mclsFramework = New clsFramework mclsFramework.Init Nothing End If End Function In FWTerm we terminate the new class last so that all other classes have unloaded before this one will. ' 'The term function for the framework ' Public Function FWTerm() mclsFramework.Term Set mclsFramework = Nothing mclsInstanceStack.Term Set mclsInstanceStack = Nothing mblnFWInitialized = False End Function We also need a random number generator that we can use to generate random numbers of a fixed length. ' 'Returns a long integer random number between lngUpperBound and lngLowerBound ' Function Random(lngUpperBound As Long, lngLowerBound As Long) As Long Random = Int((lngUpperBound - lngLowerBound + 1) * Rnd + lngLowerBound) End Function And we need a function to call that will empty collections of objects, calling the object?s Term event. There will be cases where we have collections of object pointers that don?t ?belong? to the class holding the pointer, thus we need to be able to call the object?s term or not as the situation requires. ' 'Empties out a collection containing class instances ' Public Function ColEmpty(col As Collection, Optional blnCallTerm As Boolean = True) On Error GoTo Err_ColEmpty On Error Resume Next While col.Count > 0 'If we are supposed to call term() do so If blnCallTerm Then col(1).Term End If On Error GoTo Err_ColEmpty col.Remove 1 Wend exit_ColEmpty: Exit Function Err_ColEmpty: Select Case Err Case 91 'Collection empty Resume exit_ColEmpty Case Else MsgBox Err.Description, , "Error in Function clsSysVars.colEmpty" Resume exit_ColEmpty End Select Resume 0 '.FOR TROUBLESHOOTING End Function And of course we need a function to return a pointer to the troubleshooting class. Public Function cIS() As clsInstanceStack Set cIS = mclsInstanceStack End Function This is all code found in basFWInit. clsInstanceStack: The instance stack class header has two collections for holding the name and a pointer to the class. 'A name for the class module Private Const mcstrModuleName As String = "clsInstanceStack" 'A name for the class instance Private mstrInstanceName As String 'Collections for the name and the class pointers Private mcolName As Collection 'Holds name string for each class loaded Private mcolPtr As Collection 'Holds a pointer to every class instantiated 'We want to be able to turn off this logging Dim blnEnblPtrStack As Boolean Dim blnEnblNameStack As Boolean Initialize sets these two collections. Private Sub Class_Initialize() Set mcolName = New Collection Set mcolPtr = New Collection End Sub Init() registers this class in its own collections. Public Sub Init(ByRef robjParent As Object) blnEnblPtrStack = True blnEnblNameStack = True 'Register this class in the troubleshooting collections cIS.Register Me End Sub Terminate() removes the name from the name collection. If this happens, then we really have properly removed the instance from memory. Private Sub Class_Terminate() 'Remove this class' name from the troubleshooting class cIS.NameDel mstrInstanceName End Sub Term() removes the pointer to the class from the pointer collection. This method is called from the ?owner? of the class when it is trying to shut down the class instance. Public Sub Term() Static blnRan As Boolean 'The term may run more than once so 'remove this class' pointer from the troubleshooting pointer class cIS.PtrDel Me End Sub A property allows getting and setting the InstanceName variable in the class ? header. Public Property Get NameInstance() As String NameInstance = mstrInstanceName End Property Public Property Let NameInstance(strName As String) mstrInstanceName = strName End Property The code below is really the guts of this troubleshooting class. First we need to be able to get counts of each collection. ' 'Gets a count of pointers of classes instantiated Public Property Get PtrCnt() As Long PtrCnt = mcolPtr.Count End Property 'Gets a count of names of classes instantiated Property Get NameCnt() As Long NameCnt = mcolName.Count End Property The two methods called from each classes Term() or Terminate(). ' 'Removes a class from the collection 'Called from each class' Term() ' Public Function PtrDel(obj As Object) On Error Resume Next mcolPtr.Remove (obj.NameInstance) End Function ' 'Removes a class name from the collection 'Called from each class' Terminate() event ' Public Function NameDel(strName As String) On Error Resume Next 'We may have the name stack disabled mcolName.Remove strName End Function If you ever want to get a pointer to a specific class that is loaded. 'return a pointer to the object Public Function Ptr(strName As String) As Object On Error Resume Next 'We may have the pointer stack turned off Set Ptr = mcolPtr(strName) End Function These two functions return strings of the names of all the objects stored in the collection. Public Function PtrNames() As String On Error GoTo Err_PtrNames Dim obj As Object Dim str As String If blnEnblPtrStack Then For Each obj In mcolPtr If Len(str) > 0 Then str = str & "; " & vbCrLf & obj.NameInstance Else str = obj.NameInstance End If Next obj End If PtrNames = str Exit_PtrNames: Exit Function Err_PtrNames: MsgBox Err.Description, , "Error in Function basClassGlobal.PtrNames" Resume Exit_PtrNames Resume 0 '.FOR TROUBLESHOOTING End Function Public Function Names() As String On Error GoTo Err_Names Dim str As String Dim strName As Variant If blnEnblNameStack Then For Each strName In mcolName If Len(str) > 0 Then str = str & "; " & vbCrLf & strName Else str = strName End If Next strName End If Names = str Exit_Names: Exit Function Err_Names: MsgBox Err.Description, , "Error in Function clsInstanceStack.Names" Resume Exit_Names Resume 0 '.FOR TROUBLESHOOTING End Function Below is the Register function that saves the class pointers and names in the respective collection. Note: We want to be able to switch this stuff on and off by using SysVars but the SysVar class is a Service Class loaded by the Framework class. Thus since this loads first SysVars aren?t directly available to control this functionality. We therefore use Booleans that we just set true in the init() of this class. Further we then provide two methods that can set these Booleans, which will be used by the Framework class to turn on/off this troubleshooting processing using SysVars. Public Property Let EnblPtrStack(lblnEnblPtrStack As Boolean) blnEnblPtrStack = lblnEnblPtrStack End Property Public Property Let EnblNameStack(lblnEnblNameStack As Boolean) blnEnblNameStack = lblnEnblNameStack End Property What that means though is that the functionality cannot be turned off until the Framework loads and the SysVar classes load, thus all of those classes will load into the collections even if the SysVars later turn off this functionality. If you want to prevent loading the Framework class and SysVars into this troubleshooting class you need to set the Booleans = FALSE in init() of this class. You can then turn on the logging for all classes after the SysVars load. The downside is that you can?t see any service classes load that the framework class may load. 'THIS FUNCTION GENERATES A UNIQUE NAME FOR THIS INSTANCE OF THIS CLASS USING THE 'CLASS MODULE NAME AND A RANDOM VALUE AND LOGS THIS INSTANCE IN THE TWO COLLECTIONS 'THE POINTER COLLECTION AND THE NAME COLLECTION. ' 'This function will check to see if the instance name is already in place, i.e. 'if the calling class has its own method of generating an instance name. If it 'is in place (length > 0) then we will attempt to save the name in the InstanceName 'in the name collection keyed on the instance name. If it saves we will then save 'the pointer in the pointer collection, also keyed on the instance name. ' 'If it fails to save, or if the len(InstanceName) = 0 then this function will build 'a name for the class instance. ' 'The algorithm for building a new name will be to take the parent's instance name '(if it exists), add the instances MODULE name, and try to save that. If the save 'fails, then a fixed length 9 digit random number is added to the whole and attempted 'to save. ' Public Function Register(obj As Object) On Error GoTo Err_Register Dim strInstanceName As String If blnEnblNameStack Or blnEnblPtrStack Then 'if the instance name is not already initialized by the calling class, attempt 'to build an instance name from the parent lineage plus module name If Len(obj.NameInstance) = 0 Then On Error Resume Next strInstanceName = obj.Parent.NameInstance & ":" & obj.NameModule 'if the err <> 0 then the parent did not exist so just go with the object 'module name. If Err <> 0 Then strInstanceName = obj.NameModule End If obj.NameInstance = strInstanceName Else strInstanceName = obj.NameInstance End If 'attempt to add the ame of the object to the name collection On Error Resume Next mcolName.Add item:=strInstanceName, key:=strInstanceName 'if the err <> 0 then the name collided with an existing object so add a random number 'it is remotely possible to get a random number that collides as well so loop if that 'happens and select another random number While Err <> 0 Err.Clear strInstanceName = obj.NameInstance & ":" & Random(999999, 100000) mcolName.Add item:=strInstanceName, key:=strInstanceName If Err <> 0 Then MsgBox Error$ Wend 'When we finally have a unique instance name (it stores in the name collection) If blnEnblNameStack Then 'store that instance name back into the object InstanceName proeprty. obj.NameInstance = strInstanceName End If If blnEnblPtrStack Then 'Now add the object into the framework object tracking system mcolPtr.Add obj, strInstanceName End If End If Exit_Register: On Error Resume Next Exit Function Err_Register: Select Case Err Case 0 'insert Errors you wish to ignore here Resume Next ' Case 91 'no parent exists ' PtrAdd obj ' Resume Exit_Register ' Case 2465 'no child collection exists in the parent object ' PtrAdd obj ' Resume Exit_Register Case Else 'All other errors will trap Beep MsgBox Err.Description, , "Error in function basClassGlobal.Register" Resume Exit_Register End Select Resume 0 'FOR TROUBLESHOOTING End Function That is really all there is to the troubleshooting class, two collections to hold name strings and pointers to the classes loading and a few methods to register the classes (if enabled) and return strings of names and counts of the collections. Framework code: Having done that we need to modify the framework class to read the sysvars and pass them along to this class. We must load the SysVar class and initialize it, then we can read the two Enbl SysVars out and pass them to the methods of the cIS troubleshooting class. Public Sub Init(ByRef robjParent As Object) mclsSV.Init Nothing, gfwcnn, "usystblFWSysVars" cIS.EnblPtrStack = SV("EnblPtrStack") cIS.EnblNameStack = SV("EnblNameStack") End Sub Generic class code: In order to use this troubleshooting system any class must have some specific things. First it must have a constant that is the class module name. It must also have a string that will hold the instance name. In the class header: Private Const mcstrModuleName As String = "dclsFrm" Private mstrInstanceName As String The class? terminate() event remove its own name from the name collection. Private Sub Class_Terminate() 'Remove this class' name from the troubleshooting class cIS.NameDel mstrInstanceName End Sub The Init() method must call the register method to place its name in the name collection and its pointer in the pointer collection (if enabled by the SysVars). Public Sub Init(ByRef robjParent As Object, lfrm As Form) 'Register this class in the troubleshooting collections cIS.Register Me End Sub Term() must call the method that removes the class? pointer from the pointer collection. Public Sub Term() cIS.PtrDel Me End Sub There must be a property to read the module name. Property Get NameModule() As String NameModule = mcstrModuleName End Property And we need a property to read and set the InstanceName. Public Property Get NameInstance() As String NameInstance = mstrInstanceName End Property Public Property Let NameInstance(strName As String) mstrInstanceName = strName End Property That?s pretty much it. As a class instantiates its Init() method calls the Register method of the troubleshooting class, passing a pointer to itself. If the storage of the name and /or pointer are enabled by the SysVars, Register will try to save the name and/or pointer keyed on the name. If that fails Register() will add a random number to the end of the name and try again until the save works. It is possible to build your own InstanceName if you wish. I do this in the control classes by taking the parent object?s instance name (the form?s instance name) adding a ?:? and then the name of the control. Function Init(ByRef robjParent As Object, lfrm As Form, lcbo As ComboBox, lintDataType As Integer) 'Pass in a pointer to a specific control Set mfrm = lfrm Set mcbo = lcbo 'Save that pointer to a private variable here in the class mstrInstanceName = mobjParent.NameInstance & ":" & mcbo.Name 'Register this class in the troubleshooting collections cIS.Register Me End Function In the case where the form only loads one time this works without modification and I get names that just make sense such as frmPeopleV5:txtDOB. If the form is loaded more than once, not common but possible, then the form class would end up with a random number embedded in it and the same control would have a name something like frmPeopleV5:832735:txtDOB. Obviously two controls on the same form can never have the same name so we never have an issue there. It is often helpful when it comes time to troubleshoot things to have names that make sense if you can ensure that they will be unique. You really don? t need to worry however as the Register() method will add a random number as needed to force the name to be unique, and then saves that name back into the class? InstanceName variable. To test the system: ? Open frmTestClsInstanceStack. The name collection will be displayed with all of the names of all classes loaded so far, including classes for the form and control on this form. ? Go to the database window and load another form, perhaps frmPeopleV5. Switch back to frmTestClsInstanceStack and press the ?Read class names? button at the bottom of the form. Notice more class names in the text box. ? Close that form you just opened, switch back to frmTestClsInstanceStack and press ?Read Class Names?. Notice that the class names for all classes loaded by the form you just closed are now gone. Summary Classes can cause memory leaks and shutdown problems in Access if not unloaded correctly, particularly if the class holds a pointer to a physical object such as a form, control or record set. Since the whole point of many of our classes is to wrap such physical objects in a class so that we can extend the functionality of that object, we run a very real risk of causing such problems inadvertently. The troubleshooting class that I have described gives us some tools to troubleshoot these problems should they arise. As you design your application, or even your framework, it is imperative that you stop after designing every class and test the load and unload of that class and all its instances. By looking at the count of the names collection and the pointer collection as well as the actual names of the objects still in the names collection after we think our classes have unloaded, we can determine if problems exist, and if so at least which classes have not unloaded correctly. Using the system described in this article, if the name is in the name collection then the object didn?t unload. I can?t really help you discover why it didn?t unload, but I can at least tell you that it didn?t so you can go looking for the cause. John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com From wdhindman at bellsouth.net Sun Mar 28 13:52:22 2004 From: wdhindman at bellsouth.net (William Hindman) Date: Sun, 28 Mar 2004 14:52:22 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Lookup Fields in Table Design References: <20040328185759.QYGS1781.imf18aec.mail.bellsouth.net@SUSANONE> Message-ID: <001401c414fe$2fda9780$6101a8c0@dejpolsys> "Why do men get so grouchy in their old age?" Susan ...because we've been married so long!!!!! :))))))) William Hindman ipsedixitism: something is true because I myself have said it is true ...the philosophy of Noam Chomsky :) ----- Original Message ----- From: "Susan Harkins" To: "'Access Developers discussion and problem solving'" Sent: Sunday, March 28, 2004 1:58 PM Subject: RE: [AccessD] Lookup Fields in Table Design > Why do men get so grouchy in their old age? > > Andy and William -- if you don't want to read the thread, can you not ignore > it? Are you trying to tell us that because you find no value in the > discussion, that the discussion is therefore valueless? I'm sure that's not > really what you mean to say. Ignore the discussion if you're not getting > anything out of it. We all ignore threads all the time. > > Let them hash it out. I'm pretty much done with the thread myself, but this > is the one thing that some of you do that really annoys me. Leave the thread > be. If it's gets off topic, then kill it. > > FWIW, you probably have pretty much killed it with your caustic remarks -- I > wish you guys wouldn't do that. It intimidates people. > > Susan H. > > ...ah ...welcome to Florida Andy ...we may not be able to count votes but, > just like the butterfly ballot, we sure as hell know when something has been > beat to death a hundred times over! :)))))) > > > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > From ssharkins at bellsouth.net Sun Mar 28 13:54:36 2004 From: ssharkins at bellsouth.net (Susan Harkins) Date: Sun, 28 Mar 2004 14:54:36 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Lookup Fields in Table Design In-Reply-To: <001401c414fe$2fda9780$6101a8c0@dejpolsys> Message-ID: <20040328195436.SHOJ1746.imf17aec.mail.bellsouth.net@SUSANONE> Well, that explains Bill then... ;) Susan H. "Why do men get so grouchy in their old age?" Susan ...because we've been married so long!!!!! :))))))) From wdhindman at bellsouth.net Sun Mar 28 13:57:03 2004 From: wdhindman at bellsouth.net (William Hindman) Date: Sun, 28 Mar 2004 14:57:03 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Lookup Fields in Table Design References: Message-ID: <001b01c414fe$d7831fc0$6101a8c0@dejpolsys> ...lol ...can anyone imagine me "intimidating" Drew, JC, or John? :) ...and "caustic"? ...me? ...I mean we're talking JC here ...and Drew ...and ...well, you get the idea ...pros! :) William Hindman ipsedixitism: something is true because I myself have said it is true ...the philosophy of Noam Chomsky :) ----- Original Message ----- From: "John W. Colby" To: "Access Developers discussion and problem solving" Sent: Sunday, March 28, 2004 2:10 PM Subject: RE: [AccessD] Lookup Fields in Table Design > >FWIW, you probably have pretty much killed it with your caustic remarks -- > I wish you guys wouldn't do that. It intimidates people. > > As one who loves to beat a subject to death myself, I couldn't agree more. > > > > John W. Colby > www.ColbyConsulting.com > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Susan Harkins > Sent: Sunday, March 28, 2004 1:58 PM > To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' > Subject: RE: [AccessD] Lookup Fields in Table Design > > > Why do men get so grouchy in their old age? > > Andy and William -- if you don't want to read the thread, can you not ignore > it? Are you trying to tell us that because you find no value in the > discussion, that the discussion is therefore valueless? I'm sure that's not > really what you mean to say. Ignore the discussion if you're not getting > anything out of it. We all ignore threads all the time. > > Let them hash it out. I'm pretty much done with the thread myself, but this > is the one thing that some of you do that really annoys me. Leave the thread > be. If it's gets off topic, then kill it. > > FWIW, you probably have pretty much killed it with your caustic remarks -- I > wish you guys wouldn't do that. It intimidates people. > > Susan H. > > ...ah ...welcome to Florida Andy ...we may not be able to count votes but, > just like the butterfly ballot, we sure as hell know when something has been > beat to death a hundred times over! :)))))) > > > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > From wdhindman at bellsouth.net Sun Mar 28 13:58:51 2004 From: wdhindman at bellsouth.net (William Hindman) Date: Sun, 28 Mar 2004 14:58:51 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Lookup Fields in Table Design References: <20040328191238.RCCX1781.imf18aec.mail.bellsouth.net@SUSANONE> Message-ID: <002201c414ff$17460fa0$6101a8c0@dejpolsys> "Oh geez... Did I wake up in Oz this morning??????? ;) " Susan ...my guess would have been the wrong side of Kentucky :) William Hindman ipsedixitism: something is true because I myself have said it is true ...the philosophy of Noam Chomsky :) From pedro at plex.nl Sun Mar 28 14:11:32 2004 From: pedro at plex.nl (Pedro Janssen) Date: Sun, 28 Mar 2004 22:11:32 +0200 Subject: [AccessD] error in report References: <002001c414dd$5f501bf0$b274d0d5@minster33c3r25> Message-ID: <004801c41500$ff2080c0$f2c581d5@pedro> Hello Andy, i don't know exactly what you mean with: referring to the column returned by the report's source query, but i refer to the name that is in the original table and the query. I can see that name in the Field List. Pedro Janssen ----- Original Message ----- From: "Andy Lacey" To: "'Access Developers discussion and problem solving'" Sent: Sunday, March 28, 2004 5:57 PM Subject: RE: [AccessD] error in report > Pedro > Are you sure you're referring to the column returned by the report's source > query, not the name of a field on the report? > > -- Andy Lacey > http://www.minstersystems.co.uk > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of > > Pedro Janssen > > Sent: 28 March 2004 16:43 > > To: AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > Subject: [AccessD] error in report > > > > > > Hello group, > > > > i use an unbound textbox to calculate the total of a number > > field in a report. I used: =Nz(sum([Name of field])) or > > =sum([Name of field]). > > When i open the preview i get #error. What is wrong. > > > > > > Pedro Janssen > > -- > > _______________________________________________ > > AccessD mailing list > > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/a> ccessd > > Website: > > http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > > > > > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > From stuart at lexacorp.com.pg Sun Mar 28 15:48:40 2004 From: stuart at lexacorp.com.pg (Stuart McLachlan) Date: Mon, 29 Mar 2004 07:48:40 +1000 Subject: [AccessD] error in report In-Reply-To: <000801c414db$8d42b8d0$f2c581d5@pedro> Message-ID: <4067D4D8.10096.12FF38@localhost> On 28 Mar 2004 at 17:43, Pedro Janssen wrote: > Hello group, > > i use an unbound textbox to calculate the total of a number field in a report. I used: =Nz(sum([Name of field])) or =sum([Name of field]). > When i open the preview i get #error. What is wrong. > Did you originally create the textbox by dragging and dropping the field into the report? Make sure that the textbox is not named "Name of field". -- Lexacorp Ltd http://www.lexacorp.com.pg Information Technology Consultancy, Software Development,System Support. From andy at minstersystems.co.uk Sun Mar 28 15:54:40 2004 From: andy at minstersystems.co.uk (Andy Lacey) Date: Sun, 28 Mar 2004 22:54:40 +0100 Subject: [AccessD] Lookup Fields in Table Design In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <002201c4150f$454ec760$b274d0d5@minster33c3r25> LOL. I wish. I've had 24 hours on a plane and a week at work to get over it. -- Andy Lacey http://www.minstersystems.co.uk > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of John Bartow > Sent: 28 March 2004 20:15 > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: RE: [AccessD] Lookup Fields in Table Design > > > I'm guessing (from the pictures) that Andy's got a bit of a > hang-over going... > ;o) > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of > Susan Harkins > Sent: Sunday, March 28, 2004 12:58 PM > To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' > Subject: RE: [AccessD] Lookup Fields in Table Design > > > Why do men get so grouchy in their old age? > > Andy and William -- if you don't want to read the thread, can > you not ignore it? Are you trying to tell us that because you > find no value in the discussion, that the discussion is > therefore valueless? I'm sure that's not really what you mean > to say. Ignore the discussion if you're not getting anything > out of it. We all ignore threads all the time. > > Let them hash it out. I'm pretty much done with the thread > myself, but this is the one thing that some of you do that > really annoys me. Leave the thread be. If it's gets off > topic, then kill it. > > FWIW, you probably have pretty much killed it with your > caustic remarks -- I wish you guys wouldn't do that. It > intimidates people. > > Susan H. > > ...ah ...welcome to Florida Andy ...we may not be able to > count votes but, just like the butterfly ballot, we sure as > hell know when something has been beat to death a hundred > times over! :)))))) > > > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/a> ccessd > Website: > http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > -- > > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/a> ccessd > Website: > http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > From andy at minstersystems.co.uk Sun Mar 28 15:54:40 2004 From: andy at minstersystems.co.uk (Andy Lacey) Date: Sun, 28 Mar 2004 22:54:40 +0100 Subject: [AccessD] Lookup Fields in Table Design In-Reply-To: <20040328185759.QYGS1781.imf18aec.mail.bellsouth.net@SUSANONE> Message-ID: <002301c4150f$457980e0$b274d0d5@minster33c3r25> I wish, but I have to mod the damned thing so no I can't just ignore it. But ok, ok if you feel so strongly then I apologise and will just keep on reading. C'est la vie. But just so you don't think I was too quick off the mark I've counted 125 posts so far on this. But what the hell, let it go on. -- Andy Lacey http://www.minstersystems.co.uk > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of > Susan Harkins > Sent: 28 March 2004 19:58 > To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' > Subject: RE: [AccessD] Lookup Fields in Table Design > > > Why do men get so grouchy in their old age? > > Andy and William -- if you don't want to read the thread, can > you not ignore it? Are you trying to tell us that because you > find no value in the discussion, that the discussion is > therefore valueless? I'm sure that's not really what you mean > to say. Ignore the discussion if you're not getting anything > out of it. We all ignore threads all the time. > > Let them hash it out. I'm pretty much done with the thread > myself, but this is the one thing that some of you do that > really annoys me. Leave the thread be. If it's gets off > topic, then kill it. > > FWIW, you probably have pretty much killed it with your > caustic remarks -- I wish you guys wouldn't do that. It > intimidates people. > > Susan H. > > ...ah ...welcome to Florida Andy ...we may not be able to > count votes but, just like the butterfly ballot, we sure as > hell know when something has been beat to death a hundred > times over! :)))))) > > > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/a> ccessd > Website: > http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > From andy at minstersystems.co.uk Sun Mar 28 16:06:49 2004 From: andy at minstersystems.co.uk (Andy Lacey) Date: Sun, 28 Mar 2004 23:06:49 +0100 Subject: [AccessD] Lookup Fields in Table Design In-Reply-To: <20040328185759.QYGS1781.imf18aec.mail.bellsouth.net@SUSANONE> Message-ID: <002401c41510$f8089ab0$b274d0d5@minster33c3r25> On further thought the fact that I have to read/mod the posts is my problem and shouldn't have come into it. So further apologies. -- Andy Lacey http://www.minstersystems.co.uk I wish, but I have to mod the damned thing so no I can't just ignore it. But ok, ok if you feel so strongly then I apologise and will just keep on reading. C'est la vie. But just so you don't think I was too quick off the mark I've counted 125 posts so far on this. But what the hell, let it go on. -- Andy Lacey http://www.minstersystems.co.uk > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of > Susan Harkins > Sent: 28 March 2004 19:58 > To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' > Subject: RE: [AccessD] Lookup Fields in Table Design > > > Why do men get so grouchy in their old age? > > Andy and William -- if you don't want to read the thread, can you not > ignore it? Are you trying to tell us that because you find no value in > the discussion, that the discussion is therefore valueless? I'm sure > that's not really what you mean to say. Ignore the discussion if > you're not getting anything out of it. We all ignore threads all the > time. > > Let them hash it out. I'm pretty much done with the thread myself, but > this is the one thing that some of you do that really annoys me. Leave > the thread be. If it's gets off topic, then kill it. > > FWIW, you probably have pretty much killed it with your caustic > remarks -- I wish you guys wouldn't do that. It intimidates people. > > Susan H. > > ...ah ...welcome to Florida Andy ...we may not be able to count votes > but, just like the butterfly ballot, we sure as hell know when > something has been beat to death a hundred times over! :)))))) > > > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/a> ccessd > Website: > http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > From wdhindman at bellsouth.net Sun Mar 28 18:28:28 2004 From: wdhindman at bellsouth.net (William Hindman) Date: Sun, 28 Mar 2004 19:28:28 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Lookup Fields in Table Design References: <002401c41510$f8089ab0$b274d0d5@minster33c3r25> Message-ID: <001401c41524$c1988260$6101a8c0@dejpolsys> ...ppppfffffftttttttt ...you're an easy mark for any female :)))))))))) William Hindman ipsedixitism: something is true because I myself have said it is true ...the philosophy of Noam Chomsky :) ----- Original Message ----- From: "Andy Lacey" To: "'Access Developers discussion and problem solving'" Sent: Sunday, March 28, 2004 5:06 PM Subject: RE: [AccessD] Lookup Fields in Table Design > On further thought the fact that I have to read/mod the posts is my problem > and shouldn't have come into it. So further apologies. > > -- Andy Lacey > http://www.minstersystems.co.uk > > > > I wish, but I have to mod the damned thing so no I can't just ignore it. But > ok, ok if you feel so strongly then I apologise and will just keep on > reading. C'est la vie. But just so you don't think I was too quick off the > mark I've counted 125 posts so far on this. But what the hell, let it go on. > > -- Andy Lacey > http://www.minstersystems.co.uk > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of > > Susan Harkins > > Sent: 28 March 2004 19:58 > > To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' > > Subject: RE: [AccessD] Lookup Fields in Table Design > > > > > > Why do men get so grouchy in their old age? > > > > Andy and William -- if you don't want to read the thread, can you not > > ignore it? Are you trying to tell us that because you find no value in > > the discussion, that the discussion is therefore valueless? I'm sure > > that's not really what you mean to say. Ignore the discussion if > > you're not getting anything out of it. We all ignore threads all the > > time. > > > > Let them hash it out. I'm pretty much done with the thread myself, but > > this is the one thing that some of you do that really annoys me. Leave > > the thread be. If it's gets off topic, then kill it. > > > > FWIW, you probably have pretty much killed it with your caustic > > remarks -- I wish you guys wouldn't do that. It intimidates people. > > > > Susan H. > > > > ...ah ...welcome to Florida Andy ...we may not be able to count votes > > but, just like the butterfly ballot, we sure as hell know when > > something has been beat to death a hundred times over! :)))))) > > > > > > -- > > _______________________________________________ > > AccessD mailing list > > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/a> ccessd > > Website: > > http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > > > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > From ssharkins at bellsouth.net Sun Mar 28 18:48:06 2004 From: ssharkins at bellsouth.net (Susan Harkins) Date: Sun, 28 Mar 2004 19:48:06 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Lookup Fields in Table Design In-Reply-To: <002301c4150f$457980e0$b274d0d5@minster33c3r25> Message-ID: <20040329004805.OPBK1729.imf24aec.mail.bellsouth.net@SUSANONE> Who decided you have to read every message? That's an odd rule. Yes, the list needs modeerators, but geez... That's overkill. Susan H. I wish, but I have to mod the damned thing so no I can't just ignore it. But ok, ok if you feel so strongly then I apologise and will just keep on reading. C'est la vie. But just so you don't think I was too quick off the mark I've counted 125 posts so far on this. But what the hell, let it go on. From john at winhaven.net Sun Mar 28 20:30:25 2004 From: john at winhaven.net (John Bartow) Date: Sun, 28 Mar 2004 20:30:25 -0600 Subject: [AccessD] Lookup Fields in Table Design In-Reply-To: <001b01c414fe$d7831fc0$6101a8c0@dejpolsys> Message-ID: Intimidate? Nah... challenge, bestir, kindle, rally, ally, rouse, magnify, redouble, and occasionally annoy ;o) -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of William Hindman Sent: Sunday, March 28, 2004 1:57 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Lookup Fields in Table Design ...lol ...can anyone imagine me "intimidating" Drew, JC, or John? :) ...and "caustic"? ...me? ...I mean we're talking JC here ...and Drew ...and ...well, you get the idea ...pros! :) William Hindman ipsedixitism: something is true because I myself have said it is true ...the philosophy of Noam Chomsky :) ----- Original Message ----- From: "John W. Colby" To: "Access Developers discussion and problem solving" Sent: Sunday, March 28, 2004 2:10 PM Subject: RE: [AccessD] Lookup Fields in Table Design > >FWIW, you probably have pretty much killed it with your caustic remarks -- > I wish you guys wouldn't do that. It intimidates people. > > As one who loves to beat a subject to death myself, I couldn't agree more. > > > > John W. Colby > www.ColbyConsulting.com > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Susan Harkins > Sent: Sunday, March 28, 2004 1:58 PM > To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' > Subject: RE: [AccessD] Lookup Fields in Table Design > > > Why do men get so grouchy in their old age? > > Andy and William -- if you don't want to read the thread, can you not ignore > it? Are you trying to tell us that because you find no value in the > discussion, that the discussion is therefore valueless? I'm sure that's not > really what you mean to say. Ignore the discussion if you're not getting > anything out of it. We all ignore threads all the time. > > Let them hash it out. I'm pretty much done with the thread myself, but this > is the one thing that some of you do that really annoys me. Leave the thread > be. If it's gets off topic, then kill it. > > FWIW, you probably have pretty much killed it with your caustic remarks -- I > wish you guys wouldn't do that. It intimidates people. > > Susan H. > > ...ah ...welcome to Florida Andy ...we may not be able to count votes but, > just like the butterfly ballot, we sure as hell know when something has been > beat to death a hundred times over! :)))))) > > > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From terry.mace at baesystems.com Sun Mar 28 21:10:15 2004 From: terry.mace at baesystems.com (MACE, Terry) Date: Mon, 29 Mar 2004 12:40:15 +0930 Subject: [AccessD] Framework Discussion - Another poll Message-ID: I'm reading it all though at the moment I don't have time to work through the examples. Terry Mace -----Original Message----- From: John W. Colby [mailto:jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com] Sent: Wednesday, 24 March 2004 17:10 To: AccessD Subject: [AccessD] Framework Discussion - Another poll I need to take another poll. Would everyone following the discussion please raise their hands. Thanks, John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From wdhindman at bellsouth.net Sun Mar 28 21:39:40 2004 From: wdhindman at bellsouth.net (William Hindman) Date: Sun, 28 Mar 2004 22:39:40 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Framework Discussion - Another poll References: Message-ID: <002b01c4153f$77889820$6101a8c0@dejpolsys> ...I'm dipping in and out ...and saving them all for when I have time. William Hindman ipsedixitism: something is true because I myself have said it is true ...the philosophy of Noam Chomsky :) ----- Original Message ----- From: "MACE, Terry" To: "'Access Developers discussion and problem solving'" Sent: Sunday, March 28, 2004 10:10 PM Subject: RE: [AccessD] Framework Discussion - Another poll > I'm reading it all though at the moment I don't have time to work through > the examples. > > Terry Mace > > -----Original Message----- > From: John W. Colby [mailto:jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com] > Sent: Wednesday, 24 March 2004 17:10 > To: AccessD > Subject: [AccessD] Framework Discussion - Another poll > > > I need to take another poll. Would everyone following the discussion please > raise their hands. > > Thanks, > > John W. Colby > www.ColbyConsulting.com > > > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > From pedro at plex.nl Mon Mar 29 03:14:45 2004 From: pedro at plex.nl (Pedro Janssen) Date: Mon, 29 Mar 2004 11:14:45 +0200 Subject: [AccessD] error in report solved References: <4067D4D8.10096.12FF38@localhost> Message-ID: <003101c41571$d7196530$f2c581d5@pedro> Hello, i placed the tekst box accidentally on de page footer. Placing it on the report footer gave the right result. Pedro Janssen ----- Original Message ----- From: "Stuart McLachlan" To: "Access Developers discussion and problemsolving" Sent: Sunday, March 28, 2004 11:48 PM Subject: Re: [AccessD] error in report > On 28 Mar 2004 at 17:43, Pedro Janssen wrote: > > > Hello group, > > > > i use an unbound textbox to calculate the total of a number field in a report. I used: =Nz(sum([Name of field])) or =sum([Name of field]). > > When i open the preview i get #error. What is wrong. > > > > Did you originally create the textbox by dragging and dropping the > field into the report? Make sure that the textbox is not named "Name > of field". > > > > > -- > Lexacorp Ltd > http://www.lexacorp.com.pg > Information Technology Consultancy, Software Development,System > Support. > > > > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > From accessd667 at yahoo.com Mon Mar 29 07:46:02 2004 From: accessd667 at yahoo.com (S D) Date: Mon, 29 Mar 2004 05:46:02 -0800 (PST) Subject: [AccessD] Importing data using a Class..Who can help/review? Message-ID: <20040329134602.22843.qmail@web61108.mail.yahoo.com> Hi group, I'm building a little app that is able to import textfiles. I want to do this using a class. I've made a start and it works! Does anybody have the time/interest to shoot at it? It's very basic. I've got: a class called: cInterface a method called: SaveLine TIA Sander --------------------------------- Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Finance Tax Center - File online. File on time. From mwp.reid at qub.ac.uk Mon Mar 29 08:36:04 2004 From: mwp.reid at qub.ac.uk (Martin Reid) Date: Mon, 29 Mar 2004 15:36:04 +0100 Subject: [AccessD] OT Software tools References: <000301c411aa$1d158a80$6401a8c0@COA3> <40638618.8080805@shaw.ca> <1626260251.20040326103055@cactus.dk> Message-ID: <000901c4159b$2a3a1420$9111758f@aine> Someone was looking at finding a way to see which patches ahd been applied to a pc. This tool does that plus a bit more and is free for home use. http://www.belarc.com/free_download.html No connection to the company or the software. Martin From rsmethurst at UK.EY.COM Mon Mar 29 09:15:42 2004 From: rsmethurst at UK.EY.COM (rsmethurst at UK.EY.COM) Date: Mon, 29 Mar 2004 16:15:42 +0100 Subject: [AccessD] Importing data using a Class..Who can help/review? Message-ID: Sure Sander... I will. Cheers Ryan S D Sent by: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com 29/03/2004 14:46 Please respond to Access Developers discussion and problem solving To: accessd cc: Subject: [AccessD] Importing data using a Class..Who can help/review? Hi group, I'm building a little app that is able to import textfiles. I want to do this using a class. I've made a start and it works! Does anybody have the time/interest to shoot at it? It's very basic. I've got: a class called: cInterface a method called: SaveLine TIA Sander --------------------------------- Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Finance Tax Center - File online. File on time. -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com This e-mail and any attachment are confidential and contain proprietary information, some or all of which may be legally privileged. 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A list of members? names is available for inspection at 1 More London Place, London, SE1 2AF, the firm?s principal place of business and its registered office. From DWUTKA at marlow.com Mon Mar 29 09:45:54 2004 From: DWUTKA at marlow.com (DWUTKA at marlow.com) Date: Mon, 29 Mar 2004 09:45:54 -0600 Subject: [AccessD] Lookup Fields in Table Design Message-ID: <2F8793082E00D4119A1700B0D0216BF8022279F8@main2.marlow.com> Sorry for all the posts. I know I didn't write them all, but I am guilty of writing most of the long ones. I'm getting a little tired of it myself. I think I've proven my point. I am just sick and tired of hearing something is 'bad practice', when the mythology behind it is based on misinformation, or simply a lack of understanding. A lot of what has been said (after the original facts were corrected), is that they are just 'dangerous', because if someone doesn't know what they are doing, they could get in trouble with it. To me, that's just malarky. I use stuff all the time, that could be 'dangerous' if not used properly, a LOT more dangerous then lookup fields. That doesn't mean it's bad practice. Once again, sorry for all the posts. At least I've tried to stick to the subject (even changed some of the subject lines!). Drew -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Andy Lacey Sent: Sunday, March 28, 2004 3:55 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: [AccessD] Lookup Fields in Table Design I wish, but I have to mod the damned thing so no I can't just ignore it. But ok, ok if you feel so strongly then I apologise and will just keep on reading. C'est la vie. But just so you don't think I was too quick off the mark I've counted 125 posts so far on this. But what the hell, let it go on. -- Andy Lacey http://www.minstersystems.co.uk > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of > Susan Harkins > Sent: 28 March 2004 19:58 > To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' > Subject: RE: [AccessD] Lookup Fields in Table Design > > > Why do men get so grouchy in their old age? > > Andy and William -- if you don't want to read the thread, can > you not ignore it? Are you trying to tell us that because you > find no value in the discussion, that the discussion is > therefore valueless? I'm sure that's not really what you mean > to say. Ignore the discussion if you're not getting anything > out of it. We all ignore threads all the time. > > Let them hash it out. I'm pretty much done with the thread > myself, but this is the one thing that some of you do that > really annoys me. Leave the thread be. If it's gets off > topic, then kill it. > > FWIW, you probably have pretty much killed it with your > caustic remarks -- I wish you guys wouldn't do that. It > intimidates people. > > Susan H. > > ...ah ...welcome to Florida Andy ...we may not be able to > count votes but, just like the butterfly ballot, we sure as > hell know when something has been beat to death a hundred > times over! :)))))) > > > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/a> ccessd > Website: > http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From DWUTKA at marlow.com Mon Mar 29 09:49:15 2004 From: DWUTKA at marlow.com (DWUTKA at marlow.com) Date: Mon, 29 Mar 2004 09:49:15 -0600 Subject: [AccessD] Lookup Fields in Table Design Message-ID: <2F8793082E00D4119A1700B0D0216BF8022279F9@main2.marlow.com> Doesn't intimidate me. I have the utmost respect for the moderators though, because they have to be impartial. Kind of like being a cop. Sometimes you have to be forceful, when you can absolutely sympathize with the people you are trying to help. I just hope that people starting out in Access read the thread, and realize that not everything that is 'recommended' about Access is based on fact. That their goal in their development career should be to learn everything that they can with the development tool of their choice, and not just take things at face value. Drew -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Susan Harkins Sent: Sunday, March 28, 2004 12:58 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: [AccessD] Lookup Fields in Table Design Why do men get so grouchy in their old age? Andy and William -- if you don't want to read the thread, can you not ignore it? Are you trying to tell us that because you find no value in the discussion, that the discussion is therefore valueless? I'm sure that's not really what you mean to say. Ignore the discussion if you're not getting anything out of it. We all ignore threads all the time. Let them hash it out. I'm pretty much done with the thread myself, but this is the one thing that some of you do that really annoys me. Leave the thread be. If it's gets off topic, then kill it. FWIW, you probably have pretty much killed it with your caustic remarks -- I wish you guys wouldn't do that. It intimidates people. Susan H. ...ah ...welcome to Florida Andy ...we may not be able to count votes but, just like the butterfly ballot, we sure as hell know when something has been beat to death a hundred times over! :)))))) -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From DWUTKA at marlow.com Mon Mar 29 09:50:57 2004 From: DWUTKA at marlow.com (DWUTKA at marlow.com) Date: Mon, 29 Mar 2004 09:50:57 -0600 Subject: [AccessD] Lookup Fields in Table Design Message-ID: <2F8793082E00D4119A1700B0D0216BF8022279FA@main2.marlow.com> I don't know William. I have a lot of respect for you, so I could be intimidated by you, if you choose to apply yourself that way. As for the caustic stuff.......um....no comment. LOL Drew -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of William Hindman Sent: Sunday, March 28, 2004 1:57 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Lookup Fields in Table Design ...lol ...can anyone imagine me "intimidating" Drew, JC, or John? :) ...and "caustic"? ...me? ...I mean we're talking JC here ...and Drew ...and ...well, you get the idea ...pros! :) William Hindman ipsedixitism: something is true because I myself have said it is true ...the philosophy of Noam Chomsky :) ----- Original Message ----- From: "John W. Colby" To: "Access Developers discussion and problem solving" Sent: Sunday, March 28, 2004 2:10 PM Subject: RE: [AccessD] Lookup Fields in Table Design > >FWIW, you probably have pretty much killed it with your caustic remarks -- > I wish you guys wouldn't do that. It intimidates people. > > As one who loves to beat a subject to death myself, I couldn't agree more. > > > > John W. Colby > www.ColbyConsulting.com > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Susan Harkins > Sent: Sunday, March 28, 2004 1:58 PM > To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' > Subject: RE: [AccessD] Lookup Fields in Table Design > > > Why do men get so grouchy in their old age? > > Andy and William -- if you don't want to read the thread, can you not ignore > it? Are you trying to tell us that because you find no value in the > discussion, that the discussion is therefore valueless? I'm sure that's not > really what you mean to say. Ignore the discussion if you're not getting > anything out of it. We all ignore threads all the time. > > Let them hash it out. I'm pretty much done with the thread myself, but this > is the one thing that some of you do that really annoys me. Leave the thread > be. If it's gets off topic, then kill it. > > FWIW, you probably have pretty much killed it with your caustic remarks -- I > wish you guys wouldn't do that. It intimidates people. > > Susan H. > > ...ah ...welcome to Florida Andy ...we may not be able to count votes but, > just like the butterfly ballot, we sure as hell know when something has been > beat to death a hundred times over! :)))))) > > > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From serbach at new.rr.com Mon Mar 29 10:16:10 2004 From: serbach at new.rr.com (Steven W. Erbach) Date: Mon, 29 Mar 2004 10:16:10 -0600 Subject: [AccessD] OT: A survey from somebody not as well-connected as JC Message-ID: <20040329101610.2131078867.serbach@new.rr.com> Dear Group, This is for the independent developers only. If you work for a company and you'd like to take the survey, just let me know that you're not an independent developer when you reply. I'm curious about what you independent developers have had to learn to keep up with the changing marketplace. 1) If you've managed to maintain a significant clientele by developing Access applications, what have you done to sharpen your skills to make you more attractive as the developer of choice in a competitive field? That is, have you developed a framework like JC, or have you gone more towards developing front ends for SQL back ends like Arthur? 2) If you've moved away from Access development as your primary source of income, what other platforms have you learned to make a living? Do you now do mostly .NET development, ASP, SQL Server, PHP, what? 3) If you're doing .NET development, what kind of things are you doing? Has it lived up to the hype? Last year about this time I was searching the want ads for positions before I decided to stick with my own business. I was amused by the ads that profiled the "ideal" candidate as one who had deep .NET experience. The stinking product had only officially been on the market for one whole year with another year in beta before that. Sheesh! Have you seen any real live .NET implementations that are worth bragging about...or have you created any? In short, what have you had to do to make yourself useful as an independent developer? I know that William works quite a bit with SBS and LANs. Have any of you developed proficiency with cabling and routers and such to increase your marketability? Do you do any security consulting, say? Do you build custom-order PCs? Do you do LAN management, e-mail server management and setup, web site development? One final thing: Years ago when I started I took advantage of the swing of the pendulum that put PC power in users' hands. That is, the PC was a great analysis tool for mainframe data. Lotus 1-2-3, dBASE III, Paradox, etc., were the tools that enabled users and departments to fiddle with the data without having to wait for the IT department to get around to their little pissant application requests. Now the pendulum has swung the other way. Security concerns and scalability and distributed networks / VPNs and web-based database applications have all made the pendulum swing back towards centralized control...and the IT guys are loving it. Or am I reading it wrong? What do you think? Regards, Steve Erbach Scientific Marketing Neenah, WI 920-969-0504 Security and Virus information: http://www.swerbach.com/security From DWUTKA at marlow.com Mon Mar 29 11:22:50 2004 From: DWUTKA at marlow.com (DWUTKA at marlow.com) Date: Mon, 29 Mar 2004 11:22:50 -0600 Subject: [AccessD] OT: A survey from somebody not as well-connected as JC Message-ID: <2F8793082E00D4119A1700B0D0216BF8022279FE@main2.marlow.com> I work full time for a company, but I do indepentent work on the side. So I'm a mutt! LOL 1: Quite frankly, haven't developed many 'tools' to help my development. Most of the projects I get for independent work are usually too unique to create 'development' tools for them. 2: Most of my independent stuff is a mix. It's about half Access, and half VB/ASP. Has been that way for a while. 3: Haven't gotten into .Net. Two reasons. No 'free' money to buy it, but more importantly, have yet to have a project come my way that I couldn't develop with my current tools. As for your pendulum comments, I know what you mean, and it swings all over the place. However, from the jobs I've been getting, stuff that is moved to the web usually has more to do with the user base, then it does with security. Most web applications I build are for customers that either are trying to hit internet users in general, or they need a platform that is easily accessible to their employees all over the world (which just lends itself to interent or extranet applications). Drew -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Steven W. Erbach Sent: Monday, March 29, 2004 10:16 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: [AccessD] OT: A survey from somebody not as well-connected as JC Dear Group, This is for the independent developers only. If you work for a company and you'd like to take the survey, just let me know that you're not an independent developer when you reply. I'm curious about what you independent developers have had to learn to keep up with the changing marketplace. 1) If you've managed to maintain a significant clientele by developing Access applications, what have you done to sharpen your skills to make you more attractive as the developer of choice in a competitive field? That is, have you developed a framework like JC, or have you gone more towards developing front ends for SQL back ends like Arthur? 2) If you've moved away from Access development as your primary source of income, what other platforms have you learned to make a living? Do you now do mostly .NET development, ASP, SQL Server, PHP, what? 3) If you're doing .NET development, what kind of things are you doing? Has it lived up to the hype? Last year about this time I was searching the want ads for positions before I decided to stick with my own business. I was amused by the ads that profiled the "ideal" candidate as one who had deep .NET experience. The stinking product had only officially been on the market for one whole year with another year in beta before that. Sheesh! Have you seen any real live .NET implementations that are worth bragging about...or have you created any? In short, what have you had to do to make yourself useful as an independent developer? I know that William works quite a bit with SBS and LANs. Have any of you developed proficiency with cabling and routers and such to increase your marketability? Do you do any security consulting, say? Do you build custom-order PCs? Do you do LAN management, e-mail server management and setup, web site development? One final thing: Years ago when I started I took advantage of the swing of the pendulum that put PC power in users' hands. That is, the PC was a great analysis tool for mainframe data. Lotus 1-2-3, dBASE III, Paradox, etc., were the tools that enabled users and departments to fiddle with the data without having to wait for the IT department to get around to their little pissant application requests. Now the pendulum has swung the other way. Security concerns and scalability and distributed networks / VPNs and web-based database applications have all made the pendulum swing back towards centralized control...and the IT guys are loving it. Or am I reading it wrong? What do you think? Regards, Steve Erbach Scientific Marketing Neenah, WI 920-969-0504 Security and Virus information: http://www.swerbach.com/security -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From martyconnelly at shaw.ca Mon Mar 29 11:27:42 2004 From: martyconnelly at shaw.ca (MartyConnelly) Date: Mon, 29 Mar 2004 09:27:42 -0800 Subject: [AccessD] OT Software tools References: <000301c411aa$1d158a80$6401a8c0@COA3> <40638618.8080805@shaw.ca> <1626260251.20040326103055@cactus.dk> <000901c4159b$2a3a1420$9111758f@aine> Message-ID: <40685C8E.8010804@shaw.ca> This is one way of doing some of the same things yourself from Access, It displays the result in an IE window. but I haven't found where all the EventCodes are defined for WMIService 'needs reference set to WMI extension library and WMI cntl library Sub testIE() '------------------ 'http://www.microsoft.com/technet/treeview/default.asp?url=/technet/scriptcenter/logs/scrlog08.asp 'displays to IE Dim objExplorer As Object Dim objDocument As Object Dim strComputer As String Dim objWMIService As Object Dim colLoggedEvents As Object Dim objEvent As Object Dim dtmDate As Variant Dim strReturn As String Set objExplorer = CreateObject("InternetExplorer.Application") objExplorer.Navigate "about:blank" objExplorer.Toolbar = 0 objExplorer.StatusBar = 0 objExplorer.Width = 800 objExplorer.Height = 570 objExplorer.Left = 0 objExplorer.Top = 0 objExplorer.Visible = 1 Do While (objExplorer.Busy) Loop Set objDocument = objExplorer.Document objDocument.Open objDocument.Writeln "Automatic Updates Installation History" objDocument.Writeln "" objDocument.Writeln "" objDocument.Writeln "" objDocument.Writeln "" objDocument.Writeln "" objDocument.Writeln "" objDocument.Writeln "" strComputer = "." Set objWMIService = GetObject("winmgmts:" _ & "{impersonationLevel=impersonate}!\\" & strComputer & "\root\cimv2") 'IE Event code=19 WinXP=4377 Set colLoggedEvents = objWMIService.ExecQuery _ ("SELECT * FROM Win32_NTLogEvent WHERE Logfile = 'System' AND " _ & "EventCode = '19' OR EventCode = '4377'") Dim i As Long For Each objEvent In colLoggedEvents dtmDate = objEvent.TimeWritten strReturn = WMIDateStringTodate(dtmDate) objDocument.Writeln "" objDocument.Writeln "" objDocument.Writeln "" objDocument.Writeln "" objDocument.Writeln "" i = i + 1 Next Debug.Print "no of events=" & i objDocument.Writeln "
Computer NameInstalled Update(s)Date and Time Installed
" & objEvent.ComputerName & "" & objEvent.Message & "" & strReturn & "
" objDocument.Writeln "" 'objDocument.Write() objDocument.Close MsgBox "finished" Set objExplorer = Nothing Set objDocument = Nothing Set objWMIService = Nothing Set colLoggedEvents = Nothing Set objEvent = Nothing End Sub Function WMIDateStringTodate(dtmDate) WMIDateStringTodate = CDate(Mid(dtmDate, 5, 2) & "/" & _ Mid(dtmDate, 7, 2) & "/" & Left(dtmDate, 4) _ & " " & Mid(dtmDate, 9, 2) & ":" & _ Mid(dtmDate, 11, 2) & ":" & Mid(dtmDate, _ 13, 2)) End Function 'or you can run this for window hotfixes Function hotfix(Optional strComputerName = "Local") As String Dim objWMIService As Object Dim colItems As Object Dim objItem As Object Dim colQuickFixes As Object Dim objQuickFix As Object Dim strComputer As String Dim strMsg As String ' Check command line parameters Select Case strComputerName Case "Local" ' Default if none specified is local computer (".") Set objWMIService = GetObject("winmgmts://./root/cimv2") Set colItems = objWMIService.ExecQuery("Select * from Win32_ComputerSystem", , 48) For Each objItem In colItems strComputer = objItem.Name Next Case Else ' Command line parameter can either be a computer name ' or "/?" to request online help strComputer = strComputerName If InStr(strComputer, "?") > 0 Then Syntax End Select ' Header line for screen output strMsg = vbCrLf & "Hotfixes installed on " & strComputer & ":" & vbCrLf & vbCrLf ' Enable error handling On Error Resume Next ' Connect to specified computer Set objWMIService = GetObject("winmgmts:{impersonationLevel=impersonate}!//" & strComputer & "/root/cimv2") ' Display error number and description if applicable If Err Then ShowError ' Query hotfixes Set colQuickFixes = objWMIService.ExecQuery("Select * from Win32_QuickFixEngineering") ' Display error number and description if applicable If Err Then ShowError ' Prepare display of results For Each objQuickFix In colQuickFixes strMsg = strMsg _ & " Description: " _ & objQuickFix.Description & vbCrLf _ & " Hot Fix ID: " _ & objQuickFix.HotFixID _ & " Installation Date: " _ & objQuickFix.InstallDate _ & " Installed By: " _ & objQuickFix.InstalledBy & vbCrLf & vbCrLf Next ' Display results strMsg = strMsg & vbCrLf & strMsg hotfix = strMsg Set objWMIService = Nothing Set colItems = Nothing Set objItem = Nothing Set colQuickFixes = Nothing Set objQuickFix = Nothing 'Done End Function Sub ShowError() Dim strMsg As String strMsg = vbCrLf & "Error # " & Err.Number & vbCrLf & _ Err.Description & vbCrLf & vbCrLf Debug.Print strMsg MsgBox strMsg Syntax End Sub 'or to display all software installed this will return a very long string 'and will overflow a text box. Function software() As String Dim strComputer As String Dim objWMIService As Object Dim colFeatures As Object Dim objFeature As Object Dim strMsg As String Dim lFeatureCount As Long strComputer = "." Set objWMIService = GetObject("winmgmts:" _ & "{impersonationLevel=impersonate}!\\" & strComputer & "\root\cimv2") Set colFeatures = objWMIService.ExecQuery _ ("Select * from Win32_SoftwareFeature") strMsg = "" lFeatureCount = 0 For Each objFeature In colFeatures lFeatureCount = lFeatureCount + 1 Debug.Print "Accesses: " & objFeature.Accesses Debug.Print "Attributes: " & objFeature.Attributes Debug.Print "Caption: " & objFeature.Caption Debug.Print "Description: " & objFeature.Description Debug.Print "Identifying Number: " & objFeature.IdentifyingNumber Debug.Print "Install Date: " & objFeature.InstallDate Debug.Print "Install State: " & objFeature.InstallState Debug.Print "LastUse: " & objFeature.LastUse Debug.Print "Name: " & objFeature.Name Debug.Print "ProductName: " & objFeature.ProductName Debug.Print "Vendor: " & objFeature.Vendor Debug.Print "Version: " & objFeature.Version strMsg = strMsg & vbCrLf & "Accesses: " & objFeature.Accesses strMsg = strMsg & vbCrLf & "Attributes: " & objFeature.Attributes strMsg = strMsg & vbCrLf & "Caption: " & objFeature.Caption strMsg = strMsg & vbCrLf & "Description: " & objFeature.Description strMsg = strMsg & vbCrLf & "Identifying Number: " & objFeature.IdentifyingNumber strMsg = strMsg & vbCrLf & "Install Date: " & objFeature.InstallDate strMsg = strMsg & vbCrLf & "Install State: " & objFeature.InstallState strMsg = strMsg & vbCrLf & "LastUse: " & objFeature.LastUse strMsg = strMsg & vbCrLf & "Name: " & objFeature.Name strMsg = strMsg & vbCrLf & "ProductName: " & objFeature.ProductName strMsg = strMsg & vbCrLf & "Vendor: " & objFeature.Vendor strMsg = strMsg & vbCrLf & "Version: " & objFeature.Version Next software = strMsg MsgBox "Software features=" & lFeatureCount End Function Martin Reid wrote: >Someone was looking at finding a way to see which patches ahd been applied >to a pc. This tool does that plus a bit more and is free for home use. > >http://www.belarc.com/free_download.html > > >No connection to the company or the software. > > >Martin > > > -- Marty Connelly Victoria, B.C. Canada From john at winhaven.net Mon Mar 29 11:57:37 2004 From: john at winhaven.net (John Bartow) Date: Mon, 29 Mar 2004 11:57:37 -0600 Subject: [AccessD] Lookup Fields in Table Design In-Reply-To: <2F8793082E00D4119A1700B0D0216BF8022279F9@main2.marlow.com> Message-ID: Dittos - exactly my point too. And I want to thank everyone who helped out in the discussion - "nay-sayers" and "sayers" alike! Without a quality discussion between people who disagree on the matter I would have learned very little and the archives would have just been cluttered up with flames. It was an eye opener for me since I had been the one who had assumed there was something terribly wrong with using the lookup property. My assumption was not even based on what was eventually brought as the problem. I had assumed the whole buggaboo was about using delimited lists as the default lookup. The one time I did use the lookup property it seemed to be the only reasonable way to handle the situation (it was specified that the users were to be given free reign to the database window). It bugged me that I had used it since so many people had recommended against it. Now I feel totally justified about doing it the way I did. I used defined queries based on the normalized relationships that existed in the database as the default lookup property. This is what should have been used even if the defaults were not set up. The only difference lies in the fact that it saves steps when adding controls to forms and - the reason I did it - it uses the correct lookup values displayed in the data sheets so some user isn't going to come along and try and type auto numbers in and miss by one or two digits. If anyone ever changes the structure they should certainly check to make sure the queries all work properly so it shouldn't even cause problems for some of the more extreme cases that were brought up. So William and Andy - to make up for your inconvenience I'll buy you a mug or two when you stop in to Winneconne someday :o) John I just hope that people starting out in Access read the thread, and realize that not everything that is 'recommended' about Access is based on fact. That their goal in their development career should be to learn everything that they can with the development tool of their choice, and not just take things at face value. Drew From DWUTKA at marlow.com Mon Mar 29 12:54:11 2004 From: DWUTKA at marlow.com (DWUTKA at marlow.com) Date: Mon, 29 Mar 2004 12:54:11 -0600 Subject: [AccessD] Lookup Fields in Table Design Message-ID: <2F8793082E00D4119A1700B0D0216BF802227A00@main2.marlow.com> And that is exactly why I jumped into the thread. There are a lot of 'myths' about Access. Most of them are perpetuated by personal preferences, rather then actual issues. In your case, of a value list, there is NO drawback, because the value list would just import or link without a hitch, and server side db's would just ignore them if imported. However, you are a good example of why I posted what I did, because you were under the impression that it was wrong to use them. That was just mis-information. Drew -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of John Bartow Sent: Monday, March 29, 2004 11:58 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] Lookup Fields in Table Design Dittos - exactly my point too. And I want to thank everyone who helped out in the discussion - "nay-sayers" and "sayers" alike! Without a quality discussion between people who disagree on the matter I would have learned very little and the archives would have just been cluttered up with flames. It was an eye opener for me since I had been the one who had assumed there was something terribly wrong with using the lookup property. My assumption was not even based on what was eventually brought as the problem. I had assumed the whole buggaboo was about using delimited lists as the default lookup. The one time I did use the lookup property it seemed to be the only reasonable way to handle the situation (it was specified that the users were to be given free reign to the database window). It bugged me that I had used it since so many people had recommended against it. Now I feel totally justified about doing it the way I did. I used defined queries based on the normalized relationships that existed in the database as the default lookup property. This is what should have been used even if the defaults were not set up. The only difference lies in the fact that it saves steps when adding controls to forms and - the reason I did it - it uses the correct lookup values displayed in the data sheets so some user isn't going to come along and try and type auto numbers in and miss by one or two digits. If anyone ever changes the structure they should certainly check to make sure the queries all work properly so it shouldn't even cause problems for some of the more extreme cases that were brought up. So William and Andy - to make up for your inconvenience I'll buy you a mug or two when you stop in to Winneconne someday :o) John I just hope that people starting out in Access read the thread, and realize that not everything that is 'recommended' about Access is based on fact. That their goal in their development career should be to learn everything that they can with the development tool of their choice, and not just take things at face value. Drew -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From serbach at new.rr.com Mon Mar 29 13:12:10 2004 From: serbach at new.rr.com (Steven W. Erbach) Date: Mon, 29 Mar 2004 13:12:10 -0600 Subject: [AccessD] OT: A survey from somebody not as well-connected as JC Message-ID: <20040329131210.1011354720.serbach@new.rr.com> Drew, I appreciate your input. >> Quite frankly, haven't developed many 'tools' to help my development. Most of the projects I get for independent work are usually too unique to create 'development' tools for them. << I use a number of packaged "tools" for most of my projects now that I've collected over the years. Things like Database Creations' Report Manager Pro for making custom report management manageable; Tribble Software's Table Linker; a LAN version management tool from an Access developer in Chile whose name I've forgotten; FMS Total Visual Sourcebook to add functions I don't want to code myself like file dialog boxes and such. I'm hoping to incorporate the Back End Updater very soon. And I'm following John Colby's framework discussion with great interest (I've got 150 pages of messages and replies in a WordPerfect outline to keep the threads straight). >> have yet to have a project come my way that I couldn't develop with my current tools. << As Captain Jack Sparrow says in 'Pirates of the Caribbean,' "That's interesting. That's very interesting." Have you any feel for how .NET is penetrating company operations or the Internet as a whole? >> or they need a platform that is easily accessible to their employees all over the world << Makes sense. Thanks again. Regards, Steve Erbach Scientific Marketing Neenah, WI "You must be an intellectual. No normal person would say a thing like that." - George Orwell From DWUTKA at marlow.com Mon Mar 29 13:20:28 2004 From: DWUTKA at marlow.com (DWUTKA at marlow.com) Date: Mon, 29 Mar 2004 13:20:28 -0600 Subject: [AccessD] OT: A survey from somebody not as well-connected as JC Message-ID: <2F8793082E00D4119A1700B0D0216BF802227A01@main2.marlow.com> Quite frankly, from my perspective, .Net is a lot like Lotus Notes. I know it's out there. I know people use it. I know it does what it's designed to do. But, other then that, it has little affect/interest with me, because I just haven't had anyone tell me something has to be developed in it, nor have I had to use it for it's capabilities. Drew -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Steven W. Erbach Sent: Monday, March 29, 2004 1:12 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] OT: A survey from somebody not as well-connected as JC >> have yet to have a project come my way that I couldn't develop with my current tools. << As Captain Jack Sparrow says in 'Pirates of the Caribbean,' "That's interesting. That's very interesting." Have you any feel for how .NET is penetrating company operations or the Internet as a whole? From cfoust at infostatsystems.com Mon Mar 29 13:22:20 2004 From: cfoust at infostatsystems.com (Charlotte Foust) Date: Mon, 29 Mar 2004 11:22:20 -0800 Subject: [AccessD] Lookup Fields in Table Design Message-ID: NOT! That's your opinion, Drew. Not sacred writ. Try not to get them confused. Charlotte Foust -----Original Message----- From: DWUTKA at marlow.com [mailto:DWUTKA at marlow.com] Sent: Monday, March 29, 2004 10:54 AM To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: RE: [AccessD] Lookup Fields in Table Design And that is exactly why I jumped into the thread. There are a lot of 'myths' about Access. Most of them are perpetuated by personal preferences, rather then actual issues. In your case, of a value list, there is NO drawback, because the value list would just import or link without a hitch, and server side db's would just ignore them if imported. However, you are a good example of why I posted what I did, because you were under the impression that it was wrong to use them. That was just mis-information. Drew -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of John Bartow Sent: Monday, March 29, 2004 11:58 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] Lookup Fields in Table Design Dittos - exactly my point too. And I want to thank everyone who helped out in the discussion - "nay-sayers" and "sayers" alike! Without a quality discussion between people who disagree on the matter I would have learned very little and the archives would have just been cluttered up with flames. It was an eye opener for me since I had been the one who had assumed there was something terribly wrong with using the lookup property. My assumption was not even based on what was eventually brought as the problem. I had assumed the whole buggaboo was about using delimited lists as the default lookup. The one time I did use the lookup property it seemed to be the only reasonable way to handle the situation (it was specified that the users were to be given free reign to the database window). It bugged me that I had used it since so many people had recommended against it. Now I feel totally justified about doing it the way I did. I used defined queries based on the normalized relationships that existed in the database as the default lookup property. This is what should have been used even if the defaults were not set up. The only difference lies in the fact that it saves steps when adding controls to forms and - the reason I did it - it uses the correct lookup values displayed in the data sheets so some user isn't going to come along and try and type auto numbers in and miss by one or two digits. If anyone ever changes the structure they should certainly check to make sure the queries all work properly so it shouldn't even cause problems for some of the more extreme cases that were brought up. So William and Andy - to make up for your inconvenience I'll buy you a mug or two when you stop in to Winneconne someday :o) John I just hope that people starting out in Access read the thread, and realize that not everything that is 'recommended' about Access is based on fact. That their goal in their development career should be to learn everything that they can with the development tool of their choice, and not just take things at face value. Drew -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From Bryan_Carbonnell at cbc.ca Mon Mar 29 13:28:32 2004 From: Bryan_Carbonnell at cbc.ca (Bryan Carbonnell) Date: Mon, 29 Mar 2004 14:28:32 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] OT: A survey from somebody not as well-connected as JC Message-ID: Lotus Notes does what it's designed too?? Obviously you haven't used it :) I certainly doesn't do that. Well unless it was designed to frustrate the user and make a simple task difficult :-) I use it everyday and can't wait until it gets replaced. Bryan Carbonnell bryan_carbonnell at cbc.ca >>> DWUTKA at marlow.com 29-Mar-04 2:20:28 PM >>> Quite frankly, from my perspective, .Net is a lot like Lotus Notes. I know it's out there. I know people use it. I know it does what it's designed to do. But, other then that, it has little affect/interest with me, because I just haven't had anyone tell me something has to be developed in it, nor have I had to use it for it's capabilities. From DWUTKA at marlow.com Mon Mar 29 13:31:13 2004 From: DWUTKA at marlow.com (DWUTKA at marlow.com) Date: Mon, 29 Mar 2004 13:31:13 -0600 Subject: [AccessD] Lookup Fields in Table Design Message-ID: <2F8793082E00D4119A1700B0D0216BF802227A02@main2.marlow.com> What's my opinion? The 'nay-sayers' have not shown a good valid reason why it is 'wrong' to use them. All evidence points to the fact that they do their job, and if you know what you are doing, then use them if you want. I have been reading all of the posts on this thread, have ya'all actually posted a valid 'doomsday' catch all, that I missed? Drew -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Charlotte Foust Sent: Monday, March 29, 2004 1:22 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] Lookup Fields in Table Design NOT! That's your opinion, Drew. Not sacred writ. Try not to get them confused. Charlotte Foust -----Original Message----- From: DWUTKA at marlow.com [mailto:DWUTKA at marlow.com] Sent: Monday, March 29, 2004 10:54 AM To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: RE: [AccessD] Lookup Fields in Table Design And that is exactly why I jumped into the thread. There are a lot of 'myths' about Access. Most of them are perpetuated by personal preferences, rather then actual issues. In your case, of a value list, there is NO drawback, because the value list would just import or link without a hitch, and server side db's would just ignore them if imported. However, you are a good example of why I posted what I did, because you were under the impression that it was wrong to use them. That was just mis-information. Drew -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of John Bartow Sent: Monday, March 29, 2004 11:58 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] Lookup Fields in Table Design Dittos - exactly my point too. And I want to thank everyone who helped out in the discussion - "nay-sayers" and "sayers" alike! Without a quality discussion between people who disagree on the matter I would have learned very little and the archives would have just been cluttered up with flames. It was an eye opener for me since I had been the one who had assumed there was something terribly wrong with using the lookup property. My assumption was not even based on what was eventually brought as the problem. I had assumed the whole buggaboo was about using delimited lists as the default lookup. The one time I did use the lookup property it seemed to be the only reasonable way to handle the situation (it was specified that the users were to be given free reign to the database window). It bugged me that I had used it since so many people had recommended against it. Now I feel totally justified about doing it the way I did. I used defined queries based on the normalized relationships that existed in the database as the default lookup property. This is what should have been used even if the defaults were not set up. The only difference lies in the fact that it saves steps when adding controls to forms and - the reason I did it - it uses the correct lookup values displayed in the data sheets so some user isn't going to come along and try and type auto numbers in and miss by one or two digits. If anyone ever changes the structure they should certainly check to make sure the queries all work properly so it shouldn't even cause problems for some of the more extreme cases that were brought up. So William and Andy - to make up for your inconvenience I'll buy you a mug or two when you stop in to Winneconne someday :o) John I just hope that people starting out in Access read the thread, and realize that not everything that is 'recommended' about Access is based on fact. That their goal in their development career should be to learn everything that they can with the development tool of their choice, and not just take things at face value. Drew -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From mwp.reid at qub.ac.uk Mon Mar 29 13:47:00 2004 From: mwp.reid at qub.ac.uk (Martin Reid) Date: Mon, 29 Mar 2004 20:47:00 +0100 Subject: [AccessD] Slightly OT References: <000301c411aa$1d158a80$6401a8c0@COA3> <40638618.8080805@shaw.ca><1626260251.20040326103055@cactus.dk><000901c4159b$2a3a1420$9111758f@aine> <40685C8E.8010804@shaw.ca> Message-ID: <003101c415c6$9b04d6b0$1b02a8c0@MARTINREID> Comments We want to take a couple of hundred Access databases and move them to SQL Server. WHat sort of problems do you see in terms of Performance Security Re design Backup Staffing in terms of DBAs anything else??? Martin From DWUTKA at marlow.com Mon Mar 29 13:47:49 2004 From: DWUTKA at marlow.com (DWUTKA at marlow.com) Date: Mon, 29 Mar 2004 13:47:49 -0600 Subject: [AccessD] OT: A survey from somebody not as well-connected as JC Message-ID: <2F8793082E00D4119A1700B0D0216BF802227A03@main2.marlow.com> I have used it. Probably a bad example. Drew -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Bryan Carbonnell Sent: Monday, March 29, 2004 1:29 PM To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: RE: [AccessD] OT: A survey from somebody not as well-connected as JC Lotus Notes does what it's designed too?? Obviously you haven't used it :) I certainly doesn't do that. Well unless it was designed to frustrate the user and make a simple task difficult :-) I use it everyday and can't wait until it gets replaced. Bryan Carbonnell bryan_carbonnell at cbc.ca >>> DWUTKA at marlow.com 29-Mar-04 2:20:28 PM >>> Quite frankly, from my perspective, .Net is a lot like Lotus Notes. I know it's out there. I know people use it. I know it does what it's designed to do. But, other then that, it has little affect/interest with me, because I just haven't had anyone tell me something has to be developed in it, nor have I had to use it for it's capabilities. -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From serbach at new.rr.com Mon Mar 29 13:53:16 2004 From: serbach at new.rr.com (Steven W. Erbach) Date: Mon, 29 Mar 2004 13:53:16 -0600 Subject: [AccessD] OT: A survey from somebody not as well-connected as JC Message-ID: <20040329135316.1863005985.serbach@new.rr.com> Bryan, >> I use it everyday and can't wait until it gets replaced. << [chuckle!] Why, Bryan! How you talk! You mean that all that hype and buildup and promise ain't worth a hill o' beans? I've got two clients that are using it. I don't hear too much groaning, but I'm not listening too closely. Regards, Steve Erbach Scientific Marketing Neenah, WI 920-969-0504 Security and Virus information: http://www.swerbach.com/security From cfoust at infostatsystems.com Mon Mar 29 14:42:23 2004 From: cfoust at infostatsystems.com (Charlotte Foust) Date: Mon, 29 Mar 2004 12:42:23 -0800 Subject: [AccessD] OT: A survey from somebody not as well-connected as JC Message-ID: LOL! I've never met anyone who had to use Lotus Notes that liked it. Charlotte Foust -----Original Message----- From: Bryan Carbonnell [mailto:Bryan_Carbonnell at cbc.ca] Sent: Monday, March 29, 2004 11:29 AM To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: RE: [AccessD] OT: A survey from somebody not as well-connected as JC Lotus Notes does what it's designed too?? Obviously you haven't used it :) I certainly doesn't do that. Well unless it was designed to frustrate the user and make a simple task difficult :-) I use it everyday and can't wait until it gets replaced. Bryan Carbonnell bryan_carbonnell at cbc.ca >>> DWUTKA at marlow.com 29-Mar-04 2:20:28 PM >>> Quite frankly, from my perspective, .Net is a lot like Lotus Notes. I know it's out there. I know people use it. I know it does what it's designed to do. But, other then that, it has little affect/interest with me, because I just haven't had anyone tell me something has to be developed in it, nor have I had to use it for it's capabilities. -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From cfoust at infostatsystems.com Mon Mar 29 14:43:44 2004 From: cfoust at infostatsystems.com (Charlotte Foust) Date: Mon, 29 Mar 2004 12:43:44 -0800 Subject: [AccessD] Lookup Fields in Table Design Message-ID: Forget it. You insist that your opinion carried the day. Go right ahead and believe it, but don't expect everyone else to agree. Charlotte Foust -----Original Message----- From: DWUTKA at marlow.com [mailto:DWUTKA at marlow.com] Sent: Monday, March 29, 2004 11:31 AM To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: RE: [AccessD] Lookup Fields in Table Design What's my opinion? The 'nay-sayers' have not shown a good valid reason why it is 'wrong' to use them. All evidence points to the fact that they do their job, and if you know what you are doing, then use them if you want. I have been reading all of the posts on this thread, have ya'all actually posted a valid 'doomsday' catch all, that I missed? Drew -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Charlotte Foust Sent: Monday, March 29, 2004 1:22 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] Lookup Fields in Table Design NOT! That's your opinion, Drew. Not sacred writ. Try not to get them confused. Charlotte Foust -----Original Message----- From: DWUTKA at marlow.com [mailto:DWUTKA at marlow.com] Sent: Monday, March 29, 2004 10:54 AM To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: RE: [AccessD] Lookup Fields in Table Design And that is exactly why I jumped into the thread. There are a lot of 'myths' about Access. Most of them are perpetuated by personal preferences, rather then actual issues. In your case, of a value list, there is NO drawback, because the value list would just import or link without a hitch, and server side db's would just ignore them if imported. However, you are a good example of why I posted what I did, because you were under the impression that it was wrong to use them. That was just mis-information. Drew -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of John Bartow Sent: Monday, March 29, 2004 11:58 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] Lookup Fields in Table Design Dittos - exactly my point too. And I want to thank everyone who helped out in the discussion - "nay-sayers" and "sayers" alike! Without a quality discussion between people who disagree on the matter I would have learned very little and the archives would have just been cluttered up with flames. It was an eye opener for me since I had been the one who had assumed there was something terribly wrong with using the lookup property. My assumption was not even based on what was eventually brought as the problem. I had assumed the whole buggaboo was about using delimited lists as the default lookup. The one time I did use the lookup property it seemed to be the only reasonable way to handle the situation (it was specified that the users were to be given free reign to the database window). It bugged me that I had used it since so many people had recommended against it. Now I feel totally justified about doing it the way I did. I used defined queries based on the normalized relationships that existed in the database as the default lookup property. This is what should have been used even if the defaults were not set up. The only difference lies in the fact that it saves steps when adding controls to forms and - the reason I did it - it uses the correct lookup values displayed in the data sheets so some user isn't going to come along and try and type auto numbers in and miss by one or two digits. If anyone ever changes the structure they should certainly check to make sure the queries all work properly so it shouldn't even cause problems for some of the more extreme cases that were brought up. So William and Andy - to make up for your inconvenience I'll buy you a mug or two when you stop in to Winneconne someday :o) John I just hope that people starting out in Access read the thread, and realize that not everything that is 'recommended' about Access is based on fact. That their goal in their development career should be to learn everything that they can with the development tool of their choice, and not just take things at face value. Drew -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From john at winhaven.net Mon Mar 29 15:16:06 2004 From: john at winhaven.net (John Bartow) Date: Mon, 29 Mar 2004 15:16:06 -0600 Subject: [AccessD] Lookup Fields in Table Design In-Reply-To: Message-ID: I started the thread decidely not using lookup properties for the past 5 years because of the overwhelming attitude among developers that it shouldn't be used. (IIRC that's when I first read Dev's "10 Commandments".) I had no "side" in this debate other than pointing out weaknesses I saw in specific arguments (and being "cutesy" at times) Rarely is someone go to fully switch "sides" in a debate. (So I don't expect everyone to agree with me.) I believe that, based on this thread, the people who argued that it is OK to use lookup properties have won the day. Unless someone comes up with a solid reason why it should never be used I will not hesitate to use it again when the situation warrants. I challenge anyone to use facts to convince me otherwise. In fact I would very much appreciate it. And I'll buy you a few if you can do so! John "always open to the facts" Bartow -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Charlotte Foust Sent: Monday, March 29, 2004 2:44 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] Lookup Fields in Table Design Forget it. You insist that your opinion carried the day. Go right ahead and believe it, but don't expect everyone else to agree. Charlotte Foust From DWUTKA at marlow.com Mon Mar 29 15:27:27 2004 From: DWUTKA at marlow.com (DWUTKA at marlow.com) Date: Mon, 29 Mar 2004 15:27:27 -0600 Subject: [AccessD] Lookup Fields in Table Design Message-ID: <2F8793082E00D4119A1700B0D0216BF802227A0B@main2.marlow.com> Charlotte, that's not very nice. I have tested everything that you and Ken posted about this, as far as performance and bloat. Neither of those were true, and I posted step by steps on what I did to test it, and provided code when necessary. Space used by the Lookup fields is no more then if you just setup a relationship. And that is if you are using a lookup table/query. If you use a callback function, or a Value list, then there is no increase at all. No speed difference either, because it has been shown that it's just a property, which is only used in the GUI, whether it's a query or table interface, or if it's designing a form. (Once a form is designed, the lookup field can be overridden, since it is only a default control). Ken did use a scenario, a third generation db using tables setup originally with Lookups, as an example of how a lookup can cause trouble. He did show that they could be an issue. However, his example showed poor development along the way. (The original database was built and worked for it's purpose, the second generation was a copy of the first, but nothing was done to make it unique in it's purpose. The third generation could then not be simply a join between the first two.). Not saying Ken is a poor developer, just that his example assumed poor development along the way. That reinforces that if you don't know what you are doing, then things can go awry. But that holds true with LOTS of stuff within Access. So, tell me what's wrong, if a developer creates a database and uses a Lookup field. let's be specific. let's say Joe Schmoe builds a simple database for a client who wants to keep track of it's employees. In the Marital Status column, the developer sets the field to be a lookup, with a Value list of 'Married;Separated;Single;Divorced;Widow(er)'. What is wrong with that scenario? Let's say Joe Schmoe is on the wrong end of a Widowed employee, and the company needs a developer to upgrade the database to a newer version of Access. They hire someone from the middle east, who is a wiz at Access, but doesn't write english very well. Joe Schmoe's lookup field allows the foriegn developer to use the initial table design with no further ado. Is that not an advantage? I'm still trying to be civil, because you're right, I do believe in my opinion. That doesn't mean I can't change my opinion. When we had the discussion about using a Date Table, I did some testing, and found out that I was wrong, thus changing my opinion, based on facts presented. I'm still willing to do that, but I haven't been presented with facts, only scenarios which only reinforce the 'you must know what you are doing' clause. Drew -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Charlotte Foust Sent: Monday, March 29, 2004 2:44 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] Lookup Fields in Table Design Forget it. You insist that your opinion carried the day. Go right ahead and believe it, but don't expect everyone else to agree. Charlotte Foust -----Original Message----- From: DWUTKA at marlow.com [mailto:DWUTKA at marlow.com] Sent: Monday, March 29, 2004 11:31 AM To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: RE: [AccessD] Lookup Fields in Table Design What's my opinion? The 'nay-sayers' have not shown a good valid reason why it is 'wrong' to use them. All evidence points to the fact that they do their job, and if you know what you are doing, then use them if you want. I have been reading all of the posts on this thread, have ya'all actually posted a valid 'doomsday' catch all, that I missed? Drew -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Charlotte Foust Sent: Monday, March 29, 2004 1:22 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] Lookup Fields in Table Design NOT! That's your opinion, Drew. Not sacred writ. Try not to get them confused. Charlotte Foust -----Original Message----- From: DWUTKA at marlow.com [mailto:DWUTKA at marlow.com] Sent: Monday, March 29, 2004 10:54 AM To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: RE: [AccessD] Lookup Fields in Table Design And that is exactly why I jumped into the thread. There are a lot of 'myths' about Access. Most of them are perpetuated by personal preferences, rather then actual issues. In your case, of a value list, there is NO drawback, because the value list would just import or link without a hitch, and server side db's would just ignore them if imported. However, you are a good example of why I posted what I did, because you were under the impression that it was wrong to use them. That was just mis-information. Drew -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of John Bartow Sent: Monday, March 29, 2004 11:58 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] Lookup Fields in Table Design Dittos - exactly my point too. And I want to thank everyone who helped out in the discussion - "nay-sayers" and "sayers" alike! Without a quality discussion between people who disagree on the matter I would have learned very little and the archives would have just been cluttered up with flames. It was an eye opener for me since I had been the one who had assumed there was something terribly wrong with using the lookup property. My assumption was not even based on what was eventually brought as the problem. I had assumed the whole buggaboo was about using delimited lists as the default lookup. The one time I did use the lookup property it seemed to be the only reasonable way to handle the situation (it was specified that the users were to be given free reign to the database window). It bugged me that I had used it since so many people had recommended against it. Now I feel totally justified about doing it the way I did. I used defined queries based on the normalized relationships that existed in the database as the default lookup property. This is what should have been used even if the defaults were not set up. The only difference lies in the fact that it saves steps when adding controls to forms and - the reason I did it - it uses the correct lookup values displayed in the data sheets so some user isn't going to come along and try and type auto numbers in and miss by one or two digits. If anyone ever changes the structure they should certainly check to make sure the queries all work properly so it shouldn't even cause problems for some of the more extreme cases that were brought up. So William and Andy - to make up for your inconvenience I'll buy you a mug or two when you stop in to Winneconne someday :o) John I just hope that people starting out in Access read the thread, and realize that not everything that is 'recommended' about Access is based on fact. That their goal in their development career should be to learn everything that they can with the development tool of their choice, and not just take things at face value. Drew -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From DWUTKA at marlow.com Mon Mar 29 15:50:56 2004 From: DWUTKA at marlow.com (DWUTKA at marlow.com) Date: Mon, 29 Mar 2004 15:50:56 -0600 Subject: [AccessD] Lookup Fields in Table Design Message-ID: <2F8793082E00D4119A1700B0D0216BF802227A0D@main2.marlow.com> Thank you. I've had my opinion changed on this list before too. And I always learn something new in here. But I was wondering if I was starting to lose it, because I hadn't seen any solid 'evidence' from the nay-sayers. That's all I was asking for. Reproducable results. It was very easy for me to reproduce the Date Table 'examples', and see that they are definitely more efficient then using calculations in a query, for sorting and searching. Just haven't seen anything like that with the Lookup topic. Which isn't surprising though. It is something that has been mystified in the 'relational database' world. It's in books, on the web, and thus is defended simply by pointing to other references. Those are the hardest walls to topple. It's a paradigm. Drew -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of John Bartow Sent: Monday, March 29, 2004 3:16 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] Lookup Fields in Table Design I started the thread decidely not using lookup properties for the past 5 years because of the overwhelming attitude among developers that it shouldn't be used. (IIRC that's when I first read Dev's "10 Commandments".) I had no "side" in this debate other than pointing out weaknesses I saw in specific arguments (and being "cutesy" at times) Rarely is someone go to fully switch "sides" in a debate. (So I don't expect everyone to agree with me.) I believe that, based on this thread, the people who argued that it is OK to use lookup properties have won the day. Unless someone comes up with a solid reason why it should never be used I will not hesitate to use it again when the situation warrants. I challenge anyone to use facts to convince me otherwise. In fact I would very much appreciate it. And I'll buy you a few if you can do so! John "always open to the facts" Bartow -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Charlotte Foust Sent: Monday, March 29, 2004 2:44 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] Lookup Fields in Table Design Forget it. You insist that your opinion carried the day. Go right ahead and believe it, but don't expect everyone else to agree. Charlotte Foust -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From bchacc at san.rr.com Mon Mar 29 15:54:45 2004 From: bchacc at san.rr.com (Rocky Smolin - Beach Access Software) Date: Mon, 29 Mar 2004 13:54:45 -0800 Subject: [AccessD] OT: A survey from somebody not as well-connected as JC References: <20040329101610.2131078867.serbach@new.rr.com> Message-ID: <006301c415d8$730dcce0$6601a8c0@HAL9002> Steven: The short answer to your questions for me is that I'm trying to move away from fee-for-service to product. With fee-for-service it's just as many hours as you can stand to be at the computer running the billing clock. I find that it's hard to bill more than 1000-1200 honest hours a year without breaking your head. So you can make a living but that's about all. You can never really build up any real wealth. With a product, the upside is unlimited. You can make $10k in one day just by being next to the phone. But the risks are high as well. It's not a course of action I could recommend to anybody. Rocky Smolin Beach Access Software http://www.e-z-mrp.com ----- Original Message ----- From: "Steven W. Erbach" To: "Access Developers discussion and problem solving" Sent: Monday, March 29, 2004 8:16 AM Subject: [AccessD] OT: A survey from somebody not as well-connected as JC > Dear Group, > > This is for the independent developers only. If you work for a company and you'd like to take the survey, just let me know that you're not an independent developer when you reply. > > I'm curious about what you independent developers have had to learn to keep up with the changing marketplace. > > 1) If you've managed to maintain a significant clientele by developing Access applications, what have you done to sharpen your skills to make you more attractive as the developer of choice in a competitive field? That is, have you developed a framework like JC, or have you gone more towards developing front ends for SQL back ends like Arthur? > > 2) If you've moved away from Access development as your primary source of income, what other platforms have you learned to make a living? Do you now do mostly .NET development, ASP, SQL Server, PHP, what? > > 3) If you're doing .NET development, what kind of things are you doing? Has it lived up to the hype? Last year about this time I was searching the want ads for positions before I decided to stick with my own business. I was amused by the ads that profiled the "ideal" candidate as one who had deep .NET experience. The stinking product had only officially been on the market for one whole year with another year in beta before that. Sheesh! Have you seen any real live .NET implementations that are worth bragging about...or have you created any? > > In short, what have you had to do to make yourself useful as an independent developer? I know that William works quite a bit with SBS and LANs. Have any of you developed proficiency with cabling and routers and such to increase your marketability? > > Do you do any security consulting, say? Do you build custom-order PCs? Do you do LAN management, e-mail server management and setup, web site development? > > One final thing: Years ago when I started I took advantage of the swing of the pendulum that put PC power in users' hands. That is, the PC was a great analysis tool for mainframe data. Lotus 1-2-3, dBASE III, Paradox, etc., were the tools that enabled users and departments to fiddle with the data without having to wait for the IT department to get around to their little pissant application requests. > > Now the pendulum has swung the other way. Security concerns and scalability and distributed networks / VPNs and web-based database applications have all made the pendulum swing back towards centralized control...and the IT guys are loving it. Or am I reading it wrong? What do you think? > > Regards, > > Steve Erbach > Scientific Marketing > Neenah, WI > 920-969-0504 > > Security and Virus information: > http://www.swerbach.com/security > > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > From DWUTKA at marlow.com Mon Mar 29 16:02:54 2004 From: DWUTKA at marlow.com (DWUTKA at marlow.com) Date: Mon, 29 Mar 2004 16:02:54 -0600 Subject: [AccessD] OT: A survey from somebody not as well-connected as JC Message-ID: <2F8793082E00D4119A1700B0D0216BF802227A0E@main2.marlow.com> I second that. I work for a fellow on the side, who sells a few software packages, along with 'add-ons'. I have modified his software package here and there, but I also have written many of the add-ons / extra tools. He really makes his money on maintenance contracts, and reselling software. But it's an up and down world. Some clients simply send him money, others are a real drain of his resources, with little reward. Drew -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Rocky Smolin - Beach Access Software Sent: Monday, March 29, 2004 3:55 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] OT: A survey from somebody not as well-connected as JC Steven: The short answer to your questions for me is that I'm trying to move away from fee-for-service to product. With fee-for-service it's just as many hours as you can stand to be at the computer running the billing clock. I find that it's hard to bill more than 1000-1200 honest hours a year without breaking your head. So you can make a living but that's about all. You can never really build up any real wealth. With a product, the upside is unlimited. You can make $10k in one day just by being next to the phone. But the risks are high as well. It's not a course of action I could recommend to anybody. Rocky Smolin Beach Access Software http://www.e-z-mrp.com ----- Original Message ----- From: "Steven W. Erbach" To: "Access Developers discussion and problem solving" Sent: Monday, March 29, 2004 8:16 AM Subject: [AccessD] OT: A survey from somebody not as well-connected as JC > Dear Group, > > This is for the independent developers only. If you work for a company and you'd like to take the survey, just let me know that you're not an independent developer when you reply. > > I'm curious about what you independent developers have had to learn to keep up with the changing marketplace. > > 1) If you've managed to maintain a significant clientele by developing Access applications, what have you done to sharpen your skills to make you more attractive as the developer of choice in a competitive field? That is, have you developed a framework like JC, or have you gone more towards developing front ends for SQL back ends like Arthur? > > 2) If you've moved away from Access development as your primary source of income, what other platforms have you learned to make a living? Do you now do mostly .NET development, ASP, SQL Server, PHP, what? > > 3) If you're doing .NET development, what kind of things are you doing? Has it lived up to the hype? Last year about this time I was searching the want ads for positions before I decided to stick with my own business. I was amused by the ads that profiled the "ideal" candidate as one who had deep .NET experience. The stinking product had only officially been on the market for one whole year with another year in beta before that. Sheesh! Have you seen any real live .NET implementations that are worth bragging about...or have you created any? > > In short, what have you had to do to make yourself useful as an independent developer? I know that William works quite a bit with SBS and LANs. Have any of you developed proficiency with cabling and routers and such to increase your marketability? > > Do you do any security consulting, say? Do you build custom-order PCs? Do you do LAN management, e-mail server management and setup, web site development? > > One final thing: Years ago when I started I took advantage of the swing of the pendulum that put PC power in users' hands. That is, the PC was a great analysis tool for mainframe data. Lotus 1-2-3, dBASE III, Paradox, etc., were the tools that enabled users and departments to fiddle with the data without having to wait for the IT department to get around to their little pissant application requests. > > Now the pendulum has swung the other way. Security concerns and scalability and distributed networks / VPNs and web-based database applications have all made the pendulum swing back towards centralized control...and the IT guys are loving it. Or am I reading it wrong? What do you think? > > Regards, > > Steve Erbach > Scientific Marketing > Neenah, WI > 920-969-0504 > > Security and Virus information: > http://www.swerbach.com/security > > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From carbonnb at sympatico.ca Mon Mar 29 16:17:07 2004 From: carbonnb at sympatico.ca (Bryan Carbonnell) Date: Mon, 29 Mar 2004 17:17:07 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] OT: A survey from somebody not as well-connected as JC In-Reply-To: <2F8793082E00D4119A1700B0D0216BF802227A03@main2.marlow.com> Message-ID: <40685A13.999.15E9EF3@localhost> On 29 Mar 2004 at 13:47, DWUTKA at marlow.com wrote: > I have used it. Probably a bad example. Probably?!?! Quite the understatement there Drew :)) -- Bryan Carbonnell - carbonnb at sympatico.ca I don't approve of political jokes. I've seen too many of them get elected. From carbonnb at sympatico.ca Mon Mar 29 16:17:07 2004 From: carbonnb at sympatico.ca (Bryan Carbonnell) Date: Mon, 29 Mar 2004 17:17:07 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] OT: A survey from somebody not as well-connected as JC In-Reply-To: <20040329135316.1863005985.serbach@new.rr.com> Message-ID: <40685A13.5655.15E9EB6@localhost> On 29 Mar 2004 at 13:53, Steven W. Erbach wrote: > >> I use it everyday and can't wait until it gets replaced. << > > [chuckle!] Why, Bryan! How you talk! You mean that all that hype and > buildup and promise ain't worth a hill o' beans? Yea, kinda like .Not, er um .Net :) No I don't have any real experience with .Net. Just a little VB.net playing. Not enough time for me to really look at it. > I've got two clients that are using it. I don't hear too much > groaning, but I'm not listening too closely. Ya need to clean them ears out then :) -- Bryan Carbonnell - carbonnb at sympatico.ca Don't be irreplaceable. If you can't be replaced, you can't be promoted. From serbach at new.rr.com Mon Mar 29 16:22:49 2004 From: serbach at new.rr.com (Steven W. Erbach) Date: Mon, 29 Mar 2004 16:22:49 -0600 Subject: [AccessD] OT: A survey from somebody not as well-connected as JC Message-ID: <20040329162249.1332587314.serbach@new.rr.com> Rocky, >> So you can make a living but that's about all. ?You can never really build up any real wealth. << You have an excellent, cogent, and concise point there, Rocky. I am hoping to get my wife back in the development scheme of things. We were doing the best when she was working on projects at the same time I was. >> But the risks are high as well. ?It's not a course of action I could recommend to anybody. << I'm seeing that to a small degree with a product we acquired last year. It's an Access application that keeps statistical data for domestic violence shelters. The people that work at the shelters are angels, but they are very needy, if you know what I mean. High support requirements. Low budgets. I'm getting a fast education that I hope doesn't break me. Thanks for responding to my little survey. Regards, Steve Erbach Scientific Marketing Neenah, WI 920-969-0504 "I think that the send button actually turns brains on." -- Bryan Carbonnell From john at winhaven.net Mon Mar 29 16:22:41 2004 From: john at winhaven.net (John Bartow) Date: Mon, 29 Mar 2004 16:22:41 -0600 Subject: [AccessD] Lookup Fields in Table Design In-Reply-To: <2F8793082E00D4119A1700B0D0216BF802227A0D@main2.marlow.com> Message-ID: I guess maybe "nay-sayers" had a negative connotation to it. Next time I think I'll call the opposing views "Shirts" and "Skins". Maybe we'll get more people participating :o) -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of DWUTKA at marlow.com Sent: Monday, March 29, 2004 3:51 PM To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: RE: [AccessD] Lookup Fields in Table Design Thank you. I've had my opinion changed on this list before too. And I always learn something new in here. But I was wondering if I was starting to lose it, because I hadn't seen any solid 'evidence' from the nay-sayers. That's all I was asking for. Reproducable results. It was very easy for me to reproduce the Date Table 'examples', and see that they are definitely more efficient then using calculations in a query, for sorting and searching. Just haven't seen anything like that with the Lookup topic. Which isn't surprising though. It is something that has been mystified in the 'relational database' world. It's in books, on the web, and thus is defended simply by pointing to other references. Those are the hardest walls to topple. It's a paradigm. Drew -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of John Bartow Sent: Monday, March 29, 2004 3:16 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] Lookup Fields in Table Design I started the thread decidely not using lookup properties for the past 5 years because of the overwhelming attitude among developers that it shouldn't be used. (IIRC that's when I first read Dev's "10 Commandments".) I had no "side" in this debate other than pointing out weaknesses I saw in specific arguments (and being "cutesy" at times) Rarely is someone go to fully switch "sides" in a debate. (So I don't expect everyone to agree with me.) I believe that, based on this thread, the people who argued that it is OK to use lookup properties have won the day. Unless someone comes up with a solid reason why it should never be used I will not hesitate to use it again when the situation warrants. I challenge anyone to use facts to convince me otherwise. In fact I would very much appreciate it. And I'll buy you a few if you can do so! John "always open to the facts" Bartow -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Charlotte Foust Sent: Monday, March 29, 2004 2:44 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] Lookup Fields in Table Design Forget it. You insist that your opinion carried the day. Go right ahead and believe it, but don't expect everyone else to agree. Charlotte Foust -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From wdhindman at bellsouth.net Mon Mar 29 16:25:36 2004 From: wdhindman at bellsouth.net (William Hindman) Date: Mon, 29 Mar 2004 17:25:36 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Lookup Fields in Table Design References: <2F8793082E00D4119A1700B0D0216BF802227A0D@main2.marlow.com> Message-ID: <008901c415dc$c5fe43e0$6101a8c0@dejpolsys> ...sigh William Hindman ipsedixitism: something is true because I myself have said it is true ...the philosophy of Noam Chomsky :) From DWUTKA at marlow.com Mon Mar 29 16:32:51 2004 From: DWUTKA at marlow.com (DWUTKA at marlow.com) Date: Mon, 29 Mar 2004 16:32:51 -0600 Subject: [AccessD] OT: A survey from somebody not as well-connected as JC Message-ID: <2F8793082E00D4119A1700B0D0216BF802227A0F@main2.marlow.com> I don't know. I've heard mixed stories about .Net, so from 'what I've heard', it's not an entirely bad example. Drew -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Bryan Carbonnell Sent: Monday, March 29, 2004 4:17 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] OT: A survey from somebody not as well-connected as JC On 29 Mar 2004 at 13:47, DWUTKA at marlow.com wrote: > I have used it. Probably a bad example. Probably?!?! Quite the understatement there Drew :)) -- Bryan Carbonnell - carbonnb at sympatico.ca I don't approve of political jokes. I've seen too many of them get elected. -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From DWUTKA at marlow.com Mon Mar 29 16:56:59 2004 From: DWUTKA at marlow.com (DWUTKA at marlow.com) Date: Mon, 29 Mar 2004 16:56:59 -0600 Subject: [AccessD] Lookup Fields in Table Design Message-ID: <2F8793082E00D4119A1700B0D0216BF802227A10@main2.marlow.com> Now William, was that very helpful? Who are you sighing at? Drew -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of William Hindman Sent: Monday, March 29, 2004 4:26 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Lookup Fields in Table Design ...sigh William Hindman ipsedixitism: something is true because I myself have said it is true ...the philosophy of Noam Chomsky :) -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From DWUTKA at marlow.com Mon Mar 29 16:57:41 2004 From: DWUTKA at marlow.com (DWUTKA at marlow.com) Date: Mon, 29 Mar 2004 16:57:41 -0600 Subject: [AccessD] Lookup Fields in Table Design Message-ID: <2F8793082E00D4119A1700B0D0216BF802227A11@main2.marlow.com> Might be more fun if we got to see the opposing team then! LOL. Drew -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of John Bartow Sent: Monday, March 29, 2004 4:23 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] Lookup Fields in Table Design I guess maybe "nay-sayers" had a negative connotation to it. Next time I think I'll call the opposing views "Shirts" and "Skins". Maybe we'll get more people participating :o) -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of DWUTKA at marlow.com Sent: Monday, March 29, 2004 3:51 PM To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: RE: [AccessD] Lookup Fields in Table Design Thank you. I've had my opinion changed on this list before too. And I always learn something new in here. But I was wondering if I was starting to lose it, because I hadn't seen any solid 'evidence' from the nay-sayers. That's all I was asking for. Reproducable results. It was very easy for me to reproduce the Date Table 'examples', and see that they are definitely more efficient then using calculations in a query, for sorting and searching. Just haven't seen anything like that with the Lookup topic. Which isn't surprising though. It is something that has been mystified in the 'relational database' world. It's in books, on the web, and thus is defended simply by pointing to other references. Those are the hardest walls to topple. It's a paradigm. Drew -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of John Bartow Sent: Monday, March 29, 2004 3:16 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] Lookup Fields in Table Design I started the thread decidely not using lookup properties for the past 5 years because of the overwhelming attitude among developers that it shouldn't be used. (IIRC that's when I first read Dev's "10 Commandments".) I had no "side" in this debate other than pointing out weaknesses I saw in specific arguments (and being "cutesy" at times) Rarely is someone go to fully switch "sides" in a debate. (So I don't expect everyone to agree with me.) I believe that, based on this thread, the people who argued that it is OK to use lookup properties have won the day. Unless someone comes up with a solid reason why it should never be used I will not hesitate to use it again when the situation warrants. I challenge anyone to use facts to convince me otherwise. In fact I would very much appreciate it. And I'll buy you a few if you can do so! John "always open to the facts" Bartow -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Charlotte Foust Sent: Monday, March 29, 2004 2:44 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] Lookup Fields in Table Design Forget it. You insist that your opinion carried the day. Go right ahead and believe it, but don't expect everyone else to agree. Charlotte Foust -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From serbach at new.rr.com Mon Mar 29 17:03:58 2004 From: serbach at new.rr.com (Steven W. Erbach) Date: Mon, 29 Mar 2004 17:03:58 -0600 Subject: [AccessD] Slightly OT Message-ID: <20040329170358.1651494451.serbach@new.rr.com> >> We want to take a couple of hundred Access databases and move them to SQL Server. WHat sort of problems do you see in terms of...<< Um, Martin? Don't I own a book with your name on it called "SQL: Access to SQL Server?" Regards, Steve Erbach Scientific Marketing Neenah, WI 920-969-0504 "Don't light a match 'til ya know which end of the dog is barkin'." - Dave Barry From cfoust at infostatsystems.com Mon Mar 29 17:03:52 2004 From: cfoust at infostatsystems.com (Charlotte Foust) Date: Mon, 29 Mar 2004 15:03:52 -0800 Subject: [AccessD] Slightly OT Message-ID: LOL! You beat me to it. I own the same book, although I be jiggered if I can find it at the moment. Charlotte Foust -----Original Message----- From: Steven W. Erbach [mailto:serbach at new.rr.com] Sent: Monday, March 29, 2004 3:04 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Slightly OT >> We want to take a couple of hundred Access databases and move them to >> SQL Server. WHat sort of problems do you see in terms of...<< Um, Martin? Don't I own a book with your name on it called "SQL: Access to SQL Server?" Regards, Steve Erbach Scientific Marketing Neenah, WI 920-969-0504 "Don't light a match 'til ya know which end of the dog is barkin'." - Dave Barry -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From wdhindman at bellsouth.net Mon Mar 29 17:08:48 2004 From: wdhindman at bellsouth.net (William Hindman) Date: Mon, 29 Mar 2004 18:08:48 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] OT: A survey from somebody not as well-connected as JC References: <20040329101610.2131078867.serbach@new.rr.com> Message-ID: <00ae01c415e2$cb59d1f0$6101a8c0@dejpolsys> ...don't take this the wrong way Steve but some of the questions you ask point away from the answers you want imnsho ...Access is a tool for me ...I don't get clients ...or keep them ...because I use Access ...or any other tool ...I get and keep clients because I solve their problems ...99% could care less what I use as long as it works and fits their budget. ...of course I'm not trying to get rich like Rocky nor invent a new wheel like JC ...I do what it takes to make a client happy ...that, or I colbyize them ...I got into the SBS gig because a client was getting a raw deal from a Netware house and I agreed to fix his network if he'd invest the money in what I recommended ...he agreed and I bought a couple books on SBS and found a good list and he's happy and passed me on to a couple others and so on ...same with websites which I've now taken up for profit ...client was getting a raw deal and asked my advice ...so I bought a couple of books and found a good list and its starting to look pretty nice and he wants loads more and there is another waiting with baited breath ...if I want the work :) ...but I'm just me and don't have any intention of ever working hard again ...so much of this may not apply to you ...but I'd think that if you focused a lot more on what the client needs rather than what gadget you're fixing to use, you might solve both of your problems :) ...just my two cents of course ...others may well see it different and I won't mind at all :) William Hindman ipsedixitism: something is true because I myself have said it is true ...the philosophy of Noam Chomsky :) ----- Original Message ----- From: "Steven W. Erbach" To: "Access Developers discussion and problem solving" Sent: Monday, March 29, 2004 11:16 AM Subject: [AccessD] OT: A survey from somebody not as well-connected as JC > Dear Group, > > This is for the independent developers only. If you work for a company and you'd like to take the survey, just let me know that you're not an independent developer when you reply. > > I'm curious about what you independent developers have had to learn to keep up with the changing marketplace. > > 1) If you've managed to maintain a significant clientele by developing Access applications, what have you done to sharpen your skills to make you more attractive as the developer of choice in a competitive field? That is, have you developed a framework like JC, or have you gone more towards developing front ends for SQL back ends like Arthur? > > 2) If you've moved away from Access development as your primary source of income, what other platforms have you learned to make a living? Do you now do mostly .NET development, ASP, SQL Server, PHP, what? > > 3) If you're doing .NET development, what kind of things are you doing? Has it lived up to the hype? Last year about this time I was searching the want ads for positions before I decided to stick with my own business. I was amused by the ads that profiled the "ideal" candidate as one who had deep .NET experience. The stinking product had only officially been on the market for one whole year with another year in beta before that. Sheesh! Have you seen any real live .NET implementations that are worth bragging about...or have you created any? > > In short, what have you had to do to make yourself useful as an independent developer? I know that William works quite a bit with SBS and LANs. Have any of you developed proficiency with cabling and routers and such to increase your marketability? > > Do you do any security consulting, say? Do you build custom-order PCs? Do you do LAN management, e-mail server management and setup, web site development? > > One final thing: Years ago when I started I took advantage of the swing of the pendulum that put PC power in users' hands. That is, the PC was a great analysis tool for mainframe data. Lotus 1-2-3, dBASE III, Paradox, etc., were the tools that enabled users and departments to fiddle with the data without having to wait for the IT department to get around to their little pissant application requests. > > Now the pendulum has swung the other way. Security concerns and scalability and distributed networks / VPNs and web-based database applications have all made the pendulum swing back towards centralized control...and the IT guys are loving it. Or am I reading it wrong? What do you think? > > Regards, > > Steve Erbach > Scientific Marketing > Neenah, WI > 920-969-0504 > > Security and Virus information: > http://www.swerbach.com/security > > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > From wdhindman at bellsouth.net Mon Mar 29 17:10:30 2004 From: wdhindman at bellsouth.net (William Hindman) Date: Mon, 29 Mar 2004 18:10:30 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Slightly OT References: <20040329170358.1651494451.serbach@new.rr.com> Message-ID: <00bb01c415e3$07e20930$6101a8c0@dejpolsys> ...you know I was thinking the exact same thing!!!! :))))))))) William Hindman ipsedixitism: something is true because I myself have said it is true ...the philosophy of Noam Chomsky :) ----- Original Message ----- From: "Steven W. Erbach" To: "Access Developers discussion and problem solving" Sent: Monday, March 29, 2004 6:03 PM Subject: Re: [AccessD] Slightly OT > >> We want to take a couple of hundred Access databases and move them to SQL Server. WHat sort of problems do you see in terms of...<< > > Um, Martin? Don't I own a book with your name on it called "SQL: Access to SQL Server?" > > Regards, > > Steve Erbach > Scientific Marketing > Neenah, WI > 920-969-0504 > > "Don't light a match 'til ya know which end of the dog is barkin'." - Dave Barry > > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > From my.lists at verizon.net Mon Mar 29 17:10:11 2004 From: my.lists at verizon.net (Francisco H Tapia) Date: Mon, 29 Mar 2004 15:10:11 -0800 Subject: [AccessD] Slightly OT In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <4068ACD3.1080102@verizon.net> I think Martin didn't get a chance to buy the book.. either that or he's taking a page straight out of Susan Harkin's previous posts ;o) Charlotte Foust said the following on 3/29/2004 3:03 PM: >LOL! You beat me to it. I own the same book, although I be jiggered if >I can find it at the moment. > >Charlotte Foust > >-----Original Message----- >From: Steven W. Erbach [mailto:serbach at new.rr.com] >Sent: Monday, March 29, 2004 3:04 PM >To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving >Subject: Re: [AccessD] Slightly OT > > > > >>>We want to take a couple of hundred Access databases and move them to >>> >>> > > > >>>SQL Server. WHat sort of problems do you see in terms of...<< >>> >>> > >Um, Martin? Don't I own a book with your name on it called "SQL: Access >to SQL Server?" > >Regards, > > -- -Francisco From ssharkins at bellsouth.net Mon Mar 29 17:17:56 2004 From: ssharkins at bellsouth.net (Susan Harkins) Date: Mon, 29 Mar 2004 18:17:56 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Slightly OT In-Reply-To: <4068ACD3.1080102@verizon.net> Message-ID: <20040329231755.OSVT1746.imf17aec.mail.bellsouth.net@SUSANONE> I've tried to teach him... :) Susan H. I think Martin didn't get a chance to buy the book.. either that or he's taking a page straight out of Susan Harkin's previous posts ;o) Charlotte Foust said the following on 3/29/2004 3:03 PM: >LOL! You beat me to it. I own the same book, although I be jiggered >if I can find it at the moment. > From DWUTKA at marlow.com Mon Mar 29 17:18:28 2004 From: DWUTKA at marlow.com (DWUTKA at marlow.com) Date: Mon, 29 Mar 2004 17:18:28 -0600 Subject: [AccessD] OT: A survey from somebody not as well-connected as JC Message-ID: <2F8793082E00D4119A1700B0D0216BF802227A13@main2.marlow.com> I have to admit I have the same sentiments. I'm more concerned with what I need to solve, then what tools I use. That is the only reason that I haven't bothered to do anything with .Net, because I have yet to require new tools to do the jobs I get. It's also why I love to listen to technologies in other areas, because it broadens my perspective on how to approach a problem. Drew -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of William Hindman Sent: Monday, March 29, 2004 5:09 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] OT: A survey from somebody not as well-connected as JC ...don't take this the wrong way Steve but some of the questions you ask point away from the answers you want imnsho ...Access is a tool for me ...I don't get clients ...or keep them ...because I use Access ...or any other tool ...I get and keep clients because I solve their problems ...99% could care less what I use as long as it works and fits their budget. ...of course I'm not trying to get rich like Rocky nor invent a new wheel like JC ...I do what it takes to make a client happy ...that, or I colbyize them ...I got into the SBS gig because a client was getting a raw deal from a Netware house and I agreed to fix his network if he'd invest the money in what I recommended ...he agreed and I bought a couple books on SBS and found a good list and he's happy and passed me on to a couple others and so on ...same with websites which I've now taken up for profit ...client was getting a raw deal and asked my advice ...so I bought a couple of books and found a good list and its starting to look pretty nice and he wants loads more and there is another waiting with baited breath ...if I want the work :) ...but I'm just me and don't have any intention of ever working hard again ...so much of this may not apply to you ...but I'd think that if you focused a lot more on what the client needs rather than what gadget you're fixing to use, you might solve both of your problems :) ...just my two cents of course ...others may well see it different and I won't mind at all :) William Hindman ipsedixitism: something is true because I myself have said it is true ...the philosophy of Noam Chomsky :) ----- Original Message ----- From: "Steven W. Erbach" To: "Access Developers discussion and problem solving" Sent: Monday, March 29, 2004 11:16 AM Subject: [AccessD] OT: A survey from somebody not as well-connected as JC > Dear Group, > > This is for the independent developers only. If you work for a company and you'd like to take the survey, just let me know that you're not an independent developer when you reply. > > I'm curious about what you independent developers have had to learn to keep up with the changing marketplace. > > 1) If you've managed to maintain a significant clientele by developing Access applications, what have you done to sharpen your skills to make you more attractive as the developer of choice in a competitive field? That is, have you developed a framework like JC, or have you gone more towards developing front ends for SQL back ends like Arthur? > > 2) If you've moved away from Access development as your primary source of income, what other platforms have you learned to make a living? Do you now do mostly .NET development, ASP, SQL Server, PHP, what? > > 3) If you're doing .NET development, what kind of things are you doing? Has it lived up to the hype? Last year about this time I was searching the want ads for positions before I decided to stick with my own business. I was amused by the ads that profiled the "ideal" candidate as one who had deep .NET experience. The stinking product had only officially been on the market for one whole year with another year in beta before that. Sheesh! Have you seen any real live .NET implementations that are worth bragging about...or have you created any? > > In short, what have you had to do to make yourself useful as an independent developer? I know that William works quite a bit with SBS and LANs. Have any of you developed proficiency with cabling and routers and such to increase your marketability? > > Do you do any security consulting, say? Do you build custom-order PCs? Do you do LAN management, e-mail server management and setup, web site development? > > One final thing: Years ago when I started I took advantage of the swing of the pendulum that put PC power in users' hands. That is, the PC was a great analysis tool for mainframe data. Lotus 1-2-3, dBASE III, Paradox, etc., were the tools that enabled users and departments to fiddle with the data without having to wait for the IT department to get around to their little pissant application requests. > > Now the pendulum has swung the other way. Security concerns and scalability and distributed networks / VPNs and web-based database applications have all made the pendulum swing back towards centralized control...and the IT guys are loving it. Or am I reading it wrong? What do you think? > > Regards, > > Steve Erbach > Scientific Marketing > Neenah, WI > 920-969-0504 > > Security and Virus information: > http://www.swerbach.com/security > > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From my.lists at verizon.net Mon Mar 29 17:30:44 2004 From: my.lists at verizon.net (Francisco H Tapia) Date: Mon, 29 Mar 2004 15:30:44 -0800 Subject: [AccessD] Slightly OT In-Reply-To: <20040329231755.OSVT1746.imf17aec.mail.bellsouth.net@SUSANONE> References: <20040329231755.OSVT1746.imf17aec.mail.bellsouth.net@SUSANONE> Message-ID: <4068B1A4.5040507@verizon.net> I guess he was paying attention :| Susan Harkins said the following on 3/29/2004 3:17 PM: >I've tried to teach him... :) > >Susan H. > >I think Martin didn't get a chance to buy the book.. either that or he's >taking a page straight out of Susan Harkin's previous posts ;o) > > > >Charlotte Foust said the following on 3/29/2004 3:03 PM: > > > >>LOL! You beat me to it. I own the same book, although I be jiggered >>if I can find it at the moment. >> >> >> > > > -- -Francisco From artful at rogers.com Mon Mar 29 21:41:53 2004 From: artful at rogers.com (Arthur Fuller) Date: Mon, 29 Mar 2004 19:41:53 -0800 Subject: [AccessD] Lookup Fields in Table Design In-Reply-To: <2F8793082E00D4119A1700B0D0216BF8022279F9@main2.marlow.com> Message-ID: <000001c41608$f1d36910$6501a8c0@rock> I am one of those asinine developers that defines as much as possible at the table level, including lookups. In an MDB, for example, I might define the CustomerID column as a combo-box whose source is a query called Customers_SelectByCompanyName, with a hidden column 0 and a visible column 1. Even if it does cost me a couple of milliseconds at run-time (which is arguable), I'll still do it, because of the tremendous development-time gains. Given the absence of "domains" in Access (a domain in this sense is a meta-field, i.e. a thoroughly defined field which is not tied to a table, which can then be copied to any given table in the app), what I typically do is create a pseudo-table containing all these thoroughly-defined field definitions. Then as I create the actual tables, I copy the fields of interest from the pseudo-table to the given actual table, thus "inheriting" the complete fieldspec, including format, mask, prompt, combo-box etc. Why do I invest so much time at the table level? Very simple. Once that is done, even if I do nothing more than create an autoForm or query or report, I inherit all these field specifications. I do it this way in MDBs because most of the data-architecture tools don't provide full support for file-level databases. Given a job in SQL Server, though, I invest this effort in the definition of domains etc., and then manufacture all the tables from the domains, postponing this step until I am satisfied with the domain specs. The great thing about such (admittedly pricey) tools is that you can revise the domain definitions and they automatically propagate to all instances of the domains in all the tables. That's what I love about such tools! Arthur -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of DWUTKA at marlow.com Sent: Monday, March 29, 2004 7:49 AM To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: RE: [AccessD] Lookup Fields in Table Design Doesn't intimidate me. I have the utmost respect for the moderators though, because they have to be impartial. Kind of like being a cop. Sometimes you have to be forceful, when you can absolutely sympathize with the people you are trying to help. I just hope that people starting out in Access read the thread, and realize that not everything that is 'recommended' about Access is based on fact. That their goal in their development career should be to learn everything that they can with the development tool of their choice, and not just take things at face value. Drew -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Susan Harkins Sent: Sunday, March 28, 2004 12:58 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: [AccessD] Lookup Fields in Table Design Why do men get so grouchy in their old age? Andy and William -- if you don't want to read the thread, can you not ignore it? Are you trying to tell us that because you find no value in the discussion, that the discussion is therefore valueless? I'm sure that's not really what you mean to say. Ignore the discussion if you're not getting anything out of it. We all ignore threads all the time. Let them hash it out. I'm pretty much done with the thread myself, but this is the one thing that some of you do that really annoys me. Leave the thread be. If it's gets off topic, then kill it. FWIW, you probably have pretty much killed it with your caustic remarks -- I wish you guys wouldn't do that. It intimidates people. Susan H. ...ah ...welcome to Florida Andy ...we may not be able to count votes but, just like the butterfly ballot, we sure as hell know when something has been beat to death a hundred times over! :)))))) -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From SDSSoftware at optusnet.com.au Mon Mar 29 19:35:23 2004 From: SDSSoftware at optusnet.com.au (Kath Pelletti) Date: Tue, 30 Mar 2004 11:35:23 +1000 Subject: [AccessD] 1st Anglo-Australian DBA Conference References: Message-ID: <022c01c415f7$457816e0$6401a8c0@user> Glad to see it started anyway. Kath ----- Original Message ----- From: Jim Lawrence (AccessD) To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Sent: Sunday, March 28, 2004 3:39 AM Subject: [AccessD] 1st Anglo-Australian DBA Conference Hi All: The 1st Anglo-Australian DBA Conference was held a short while ago. It may have been small but it is a start. www.databaseadvisors.com Jim -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From martyconnelly at shaw.ca Mon Mar 29 19:45:24 2004 From: martyconnelly at shaw.ca (MartyConnelly) Date: Mon, 29 Mar 2004 17:45:24 -0800 Subject: [AccessD] Lookup Fields in Table Design References: Message-ID: <4068D134.5060905@shaw.ca> I was hoping for "Bounders" and "Cads" John Bartow wrote: >I guess maybe "nay-sayers" had a negative connotation to it. > >Next time I think I'll call the opposing views "Shirts" and "Skins". Maybe >we'll get more people participating :o) > >-----Original Message----- >From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com >[mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of >DWUTKA at marlow.com >Sent: Monday, March 29, 2004 3:51 PM >To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com >Subject: RE: [AccessD] Lookup Fields in Table Design > > >Thank you. I've had my opinion changed on this list before too. And I >always learn something new in here. But I was wondering if I was starting >to lose it, because I hadn't seen any solid 'evidence' from the nay-sayers. >That's all I was asking for. Reproducable results. It was very easy for me >to reproduce the Date Table 'examples', and see that they are definitely >more efficient then using calculations in a query, for sorting and >searching. > >Just haven't seen anything like that with the Lookup topic. Which isn't >surprising though. It is something that has been mystified in the >'relational database' world. It's in books, on the web, and thus is >defended simply by pointing to other references. Those are the hardest >walls to topple. It's a paradigm. > >Drew > >-----Original Message----- >From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com >[mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of John Bartow >Sent: Monday, March 29, 2004 3:16 PM >To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving >Subject: RE: [AccessD] Lookup Fields in Table Design > > >I started the thread decidely not using lookup properties for the past 5 >years because of the overwhelming attitude among developers that it >shouldn't be used. (IIRC that's when I first read Dev's "10 Commandments".) > >I had no "side" in this debate other than pointing out weaknesses I saw in >specific arguments (and being "cutesy" at times) Rarely is someone go to >fully switch "sides" in a debate. (So I don't expect everyone to agree with >me.) I believe that, based on this thread, the people who argued that it is >OK to use lookup properties have won the day. > >Unless someone comes up with a solid reason why it should never be used I >will not hesitate to use it again when the situation warrants. > >I challenge anyone to use facts to convince me otherwise. In fact I would >very much appreciate it. And I'll buy you a few if you can do so! > >John "always open to the facts" Bartow > > >-----Original Message----- >From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com >[mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Charlotte >Foust >Sent: Monday, March 29, 2004 2:44 PM >To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving >Subject: RE: [AccessD] Lookup Fields in Table Design > > >Forget it. You insist that your opinion carried the day. Go right >ahead and believe it, but don't expect everyone else to agree. > >Charlotte Foust > > >-- >_______________________________________________ >AccessD mailing list >AccessD at databaseadvisors.com >http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd >Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com >-- >_______________________________________________ >AccessD mailing list >AccessD at databaseadvisors.com >http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd >Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > > -- Marty Connelly Victoria, B.C. Canada From SDSSoftware at optusnet.com.au Mon Mar 29 19:52:10 2004 From: SDSSoftware at optusnet.com.au (Kath Pelletti) Date: Tue, 30 Mar 2004 11:52:10 +1000 Subject: [AccessD] OT: A survey from somebody not as well-connected as JC References: <20040329101610.2131078867.serbach@new.rr.com> Message-ID: <02e401c415f9$9e1012b0$6401a8c0@user> Hi Steven: 1. My business (only 4 years old) has been 80% just using Access to develop systems - sometimes as a runtime or just as a standard FE / BE setup. And I do have some prototypes for some standard functions / setups I use and try to make them as modular as possible so that they can easily be added / removed. My background is (20 years ago - programmer Cobol / RPG) then AP then Bus. Analyst so I am starting to do more work in analysis and project management and I find that with so much IT stuff outsourced there is a demand for experienced business analysts. This year my biggest client was taken over by an company who is very Anti-Microsoft so having paid me for an Access / Outlook runtime system which they had up and running very successfully, they then pulled the plug on it, insisting that it be re-written in Lotus notes. So I offered to project manage it for them and that has been this year's focus. 2. I have also had the learn more about web applications - using asp and html in general. Again, I have done sub contracting to pull in some experts while I work with them and learn as much as possible. I need to build on this web knowledge in 2004. --- I agree with Rocky's statement that there is money to be made in on-sales but that is an area I haven't explored greatly. No .Net development yet. Kath ----- Original Message ----- From: Steven W. Erbach To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Sent: Tuesday, March 30, 2004 2:16 AM Subject: [AccessD] OT: A survey from somebody not as well-connected as JC Dear Group, This is for the independent developers only. If you work for a company and you'd like to take the survey, just let me know that you're not an independent developer when you reply. I'm curious about what you independent developers have had to learn to keep up with the changing marketplace. 1) If you've managed to maintain a significant clientele by developing Access applications, what have you done to sharpen your skills to make you more attractive as the developer of choice in a competitive field? That is, have you developed a framework like JC, or have you gone more towards developing front ends for SQL back ends like Arthur? 2) If you've moved away from Access development as your primary source of income, what other platforms have you learned to make a living? Do you now do mostly .NET development, ASP, SQL Server, PHP, what? 3) If you're doing .NET development, what kind of things are you doing? Has it lived up to the hype? Last year about this time I was searching the want ads for positions before I decided to stick with my own business. I was amused by the ads that profiled the "ideal" candidate as one who had deep .NET experience. The stinking product had only officially been on the market for one whole year with another year in beta before that. Sheesh! Have you seen any real live .NET implementations that are worth bragging about...or have you created any? In short, what have you had to do to make yourself useful as an independent developer? I know that William works quite a bit with SBS and LANs. Have any of you developed proficiency with cabling and routers and such to increase your marketability? Do you do any security consulting, say? Do you build custom-order PCs? Do you do LAN management, e-mail server management and setup, web site development? One final thing: Years ago when I started I took advantage of the swing of the pendulum that put PC power in users' hands. That is, the PC was a great analysis tool for mainframe data. Lotus 1-2-3, dBASE III, Paradox, etc., were the tools that enabled users and departments to fiddle with the data without having to wait for the IT department to get around to their little pissant application requests. Now the pendulum has swung the other way. Security concerns and scalability and distributed networks / VPNs and web-based database applications have all made the pendulum swing back towards centralized control...and the IT guys are loving it. Or am I reading it wrong? What do you think? Regards, Steve Erbach Scientific Marketing Neenah, WI 920-969-0504 Security and Virus information: http://www.swerbach.com/security -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From bchacc at san.rr.com Mon Mar 29 20:27:40 2004 From: bchacc at san.rr.com (Rocky Smolin - Beach Access Software) Date: Mon, 29 Mar 2004 18:27:40 -0800 Subject: [AccessD] OT: A survey from somebody not as well-connected as JC References: <20040329101610.2131078867.serbach@new.rr.com> <02e401c415f9$9e1012b0$6401a8c0@user> Message-ID: <015001c415fe$93422a80$6601a8c0@HAL9002> Kath: What package do you use to deploy your runtimes? Rocky ----- Original Message ----- From: "Kath Pelletti" To: "Access Developers discussion and problem solving" Sent: Monday, March 29, 2004 5:52 PM Subject: Re: [AccessD] OT: A survey from somebody not as well-connected as JC Hi Steven: 1. My business (only 4 years old) has been 80% just using Access to develop systems - sometimes as a runtime or just as a standard FE / BE setup. And I do have some prototypes for some standard functions / setups I use and try to make them as modular as possible so that they can easily be added / removed. My background is (20 years ago - programmer Cobol / RPG) then AP then Bus. Analyst so I am starting to do more work in analysis and project management and I find that with so much IT stuff outsourced there is a demand for experienced business analysts. This year my biggest client was taken over by an company who is very Anti-Microsoft so having paid me for an Access / Outlook runtime system which they had up and running very successfully, they then pulled the plug on it, insisting that it be re-written in Lotus notes. So I offered to project manage it for them and that has been this year's focus. 2. I have also had the learn more about web applications - using asp and html in general. Again, I have done sub contracting to pull in some experts while I work with them and learn as much as possible. I need to build on this web knowledge in 2004. --- I agree with Rocky's statement that there is money to be made in on-sales but that is an area I haven't explored greatly. No .Net development yet. Kath ----- Original Message ----- From: Steven W. Erbach To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Sent: Tuesday, March 30, 2004 2:16 AM Subject: [AccessD] OT: A survey from somebody not as well-connected as JC Dear Group, This is for the independent developers only. If you work for a company and you'd like to take the survey, just let me know that you're not an independent developer when you reply. I'm curious about what you independent developers have had to learn to keep up with the changing marketplace. 1) If you've managed to maintain a significant clientele by developing Access applications, what have you done to sharpen your skills to make you more attractive as the developer of choice in a competitive field? That is, have you developed a framework like JC, or have you gone more towards developing front ends for SQL back ends like Arthur? 2) If you've moved away from Access development as your primary source of income, what other platforms have you learned to make a living? Do you now do mostly .NET development, ASP, SQL Server, PHP, what? 3) If you're doing .NET development, what kind of things are you doing? Has it lived up to the hype? Last year about this time I was searching the want ads for positions before I decided to stick with my own business. I was amused by the ads that profiled the "ideal" candidate as one who had deep .NET experience. The stinking product had only officially been on the market for one whole year with another year in beta before that. Sheesh! Have you seen any real live .NET implementations that are worth bragging about...or have you created any? In short, what have you had to do to make yourself useful as an independent developer? I know that William works quite a bit with SBS and LANs. Have any of you developed proficiency with cabling and routers and such to increase your marketability? Do you do any security consulting, say? Do you build custom-order PCs? Do you do LAN management, e-mail server management and setup, web site development? One final thing: Years ago when I started I took advantage of the swing of the pendulum that put PC power in users' hands. That is, the PC was a great analysis tool for mainframe data. Lotus 1-2-3, dBASE III, Paradox, etc., were the tools that enabled users and departments to fiddle with the data without having to wait for the IT department to get around to their little pissant application requests. Now the pendulum has swung the other way. Security concerns and scalability and distributed networks / VPNs and web-based database applications have all made the pendulum swing back towards centralized control...and the IT guys are loving it. Or am I reading it wrong? What do you think? Regards, Steve Erbach Scientific Marketing Neenah, WI 920-969-0504 Security and Virus information: http://www.swerbach.com/security -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From SDSSoftware at optusnet.com.au Mon Mar 29 20:31:46 2004 From: SDSSoftware at optusnet.com.au (Kath Pelletti) Date: Tue, 30 Mar 2004 12:31:46 +1000 Subject: [AccessD] OT: A survey from somebody not as well-connected as JC References: <20040329101610.2131078867.serbach@new.rr.com><02e401c415f9$9e1012b0$6401a8c0@user> <015001c415fe$93422a80$6601a8c0@HAL9002> Message-ID: <034e01c415ff$260d5bf0$6401a8c0@user> Wise / Sagekey ----- Original Message ----- From: Rocky Smolin - Beach Access Software To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Sent: Tuesday, March 30, 2004 12:27 PM Subject: Re: [AccessD] OT: A survey from somebody not as well-connected as JC Kath: What package do you use to deploy your runtimes? Rocky ----- Original Message ----- From: "Kath Pelletti" To: "Access Developers discussion and problem solving" Sent: Monday, March 29, 2004 5:52 PM Subject: Re: [AccessD] OT: A survey from somebody not as well-connected as JC Hi Steven: 1. My business (only 4 years old) has been 80% just using Access to develop systems - sometimes as a runtime or just as a standard FE / BE setup. And I do have some prototypes for some standard functions / setups I use and try to make them as modular as possible so that they can easily be added / removed. My background is (20 years ago - programmer Cobol / RPG) then AP then Bus. Analyst so I am starting to do more work in analysis and project management and I find that with so much IT stuff outsourced there is a demand for experienced business analysts. This year my biggest client was taken over by an company who is very Anti-Microsoft so having paid me for an Access / Outlook runtime system which they had up and running very successfully, they then pulled the plug on it, insisting that it be re-written in Lotus notes. So I offered to project manage it for them and that has been this year's focus. 2. I have also had the learn more about web applications - using asp and html in general. Again, I have done sub contracting to pull in some experts while I work with them and learn as much as possible. I need to build on this web knowledge in 2004. --- I agree with Rocky's statement that there is money to be made in on-sales but that is an area I haven't explored greatly. No .Net development yet. Kath ----- Original Message ----- From: Steven W. Erbach To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Sent: Tuesday, March 30, 2004 2:16 AM Subject: [AccessD] OT: A survey from somebody not as well-connected as JC Dear Group, This is for the independent developers only. If you work for a company and you'd like to take the survey, just let me know that you're not an independent developer when you reply. I'm curious about what you independent developers have had to learn to keep up with the changing marketplace. 1) If you've managed to maintain a significant clientele by developing Access applications, what have you done to sharpen your skills to make you more attractive as the developer of choice in a competitive field? That is, have you developed a framework like JC, or have you gone more towards developing front ends for SQL back ends like Arthur? 2) If you've moved away from Access development as your primary source of income, what other platforms have you learned to make a living? Do you now do mostly .NET development, ASP, SQL Server, PHP, what? 3) If you're doing .NET development, what kind of things are you doing? Has it lived up to the hype? Last year about this time I was searching the want ads for positions before I decided to stick with my own business. I was amused by the ads that profiled the "ideal" candidate as one who had deep .NET experience. The stinking product had only officially been on the market for one whole year with another year in beta before that. Sheesh! Have you seen any real live .NET implementations that are worth bragging about...or have you created any? In short, what have you had to do to make yourself useful as an independent developer? I know that William works quite a bit with SBS and LANs. Have any of you developed proficiency with cabling and routers and such to increase your marketability? Do you do any security consulting, say? Do you build custom-order PCs? Do you do LAN management, e-mail server management and setup, web site development? One final thing: Years ago when I started I took advantage of the swing of the pendulum that put PC power in users' hands. That is, the PC was a great analysis tool for mainframe data. Lotus 1-2-3, dBASE III, Paradox, etc., were the tools that enabled users and departments to fiddle with the data without having to wait for the IT department to get around to their little pissant application requests. Now the pendulum has swung the other way. Security concerns and scalability and distributed networks / VPNs and web-based database applications have all made the pendulum swing back towards centralized control...and the IT guys are loving it. Or am I reading it wrong? What do you think? Regards, Steve Erbach Scientific Marketing Neenah, WI 920-969-0504 Security and Virus information: http://www.swerbach.com/security -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From serbach at new.rr.com Mon Mar 29 21:16:12 2004 From: serbach at new.rr.com (Steven W. Erbach) Date: Mon, 29 Mar 2004 21:16:12 -0600 Subject: [AccessD] OT: A survey from somebody not as well-connected as JC Message-ID: <20040329211612.710613534.serbach@new.rr.com> William, >> ...don't take this the wrong way << I won't. I appreciate your point of view. I have gotten caught up in the tools as if owning the right brand of socket wrench will guarantee me a living. But I hear you on the client-centered approach. I've worked on lots of things that were outside of my skill-set comfort zone. I talked with a friend recently about my business and he asked if there was anything I specialized in. I told him no; my business is producing custom solutions to solve customer problems. He recommended a product-centered approach, like what Rocky is aiming for. I have a long-term care facility marketing and donations program I wrote that might fill the bill. We'll see. >> ...but I'm just me and don't have any intention of ever working hard again << Not really an option for me as we're having some tough times financially. I can dig the varietal nature of your work, though. Thanks. Regards, Steve Erbach Scientific Marketing Neenah, WI "You must be an intellectual. No normal person would say a thing like that." - George Orwell From SDSSoftware at optusnet.com.au Mon Mar 29 21:14:55 2004 From: SDSSoftware at optusnet.com.au (Kath Pelletti) Date: Tue, 30 Mar 2004 13:14:55 +1000 Subject: [AccessD] OT: A survey from somebody not as well-connected as JC References: <20040329211612.710613534.serbach@new.rr.com> Message-ID: <000b01c41605$2dc2df90$6401a8c0@user> Steve - what sort of work have you been doing mostly? Which tools do you use the most? Kath ----- Original Message ----- From: Steven W. Erbach To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Sent: Tuesday, March 30, 2004 1:16 PM Subject: Re: [AccessD] OT: A survey from somebody not as well-connected as JC William, >> ...don't take this the wrong way << I won't. I appreciate your point of view. I have gotten caught up in the tools as if owning the right brand of socket wrench will guarantee me a living. But I hear you on the client-centered approach. I've worked on lots of things that were outside of my skill-set comfort zone. I talked with a friend recently about my business and he asked if there was anything I specialized in. I told him no; my business is producing custom solutions to solve customer problems. He recommended a product-centered approach, like what Rocky is aiming for. I have a long-term care facility marketing and donations program I wrote that might fill the bill. We'll see. >> ...but I'm just me and don't have any intention of ever working hard again << Not really an option for me as we're having some tough times financially. I can dig the varietal nature of your work, though. Thanks. Regards, Steve Erbach Scientific Marketing Neenah, WI "You must be an intellectual. No normal person would say a thing like that." - George Orwell -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From serbach at new.rr.com Mon Mar 29 21:19:59 2004 From: serbach at new.rr.com (Steven W. Erbach) Date: Mon, 29 Mar 2004 21:19:59 -0600 Subject: [AccessD] OT: A survey from somebody not as well-connected as JC Message-ID: <20040329211959.101380996.serbach@new.rr.com> Kath, Thanks for you reply. >> So I offered to project manage it for them and that has been this year's focus. << Congratulations for landing on your feet there! >> I need to build on this web knowledge in 2004. << Ditto. I wish you luck. Regards, Steve Erbach Scientific Marketing Neenah, WI 920-969-0504 Security and Virus information: http://www.swerbach.com/security From KIsmert at TexasSystems.com Mon Mar 29 22:42:10 2004 From: KIsmert at TexasSystems.com (Ken Ismert) Date: Mon, 29 Mar 2004 22:42:10 -0600 Subject: [AccessD] Lookup Fields in Table Design In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <007801c41611$5de76f40$2a3ca8c0@TEXASSYSTEMS.COM> Andy: You'll be happy to hear that this is my last post on this subject. I had intended to rest after my last post, but since John has asked me to clarify my position, I will do so, as succinctly as possible. My remarks will fall under three topics: general response, how table field lookups (TFLs) can compromise relational integrity, and a summary of my failure analysis. General Response ================ I suppose my mindset is different from my opponents. In mathematics, a postulate, no matter how seductive, can be disproven by a single counter-example. In engineering, a structural design, no matter how beautiful, will have to be corrected or compensated for if a single failure mode can be demonstrated. The data we engineer is no less real than lemmas or steel. My first responsibility is to the integrity of the data entrusted to me. Thus, failure analysis matters to me. Given a choice between a path that offers risk, no matter how slight, and another which offers equivalent results with no risk, I will take the latter every time. My duty to the data demands it. Drew, you said on 3/26/2004 that "the problem is that Lookup fields do NOT cause corruption.". I have now proven two cases where they do. You have made your points. But your refusal to allow for even a caveat on this topic is intellectually dishonest. You simply cannot claim that you are 100% correct. Why is this so hard for you to admit? But seriously, with your cavalier dismissal of potential causes of failure, I'm glad you didn't choose to be an engineer. I sure as hell wouldn't want to drive across any bridge you design. Of course data errors matter, if not to you, then certainly to the owners of the data. But, rather than follow my opponent's example of loudly and longly belittling the other side, adding nothing but rehashed versions of what he's said now dozens of times before, I have two NEW items to contribute. How TFLs Compromise Relational Integrity ======================================== Take two US divisions of a company: East and West. This company had a better data designer, who defined tblStates with three fields: ID - autonumber, Code - text, and Name - text. Better still, referential integrity was established with the ID foreign key in tblAddresses. Of course, TFLs were defined for the table/lookup pair. The only small, tiny flaw is, the data was entered differently for each division: East entered theirs in Name order, while West did theirs in State Postal Code order. So now we have two tables, with identical logical content, that have different IDs for most of the records. But both sets of IDs are numbered 1 to 50. So, the fateful day comes along when East wants to do a nationwide mailing, and requests West's database. West sends their copy, and East simply links West's tblAddresses into their front-end, creating tblAddresses1. Opening up tblAddresses1, everything looks great: every record has a state code -- no missing data. East does their mass mailing using a query off of tblAddresses1, and gets back a huge pile of returns for bad addresses. What has happened, of course, is the TFL in West's tblAddresses has cross-linked with East's tblStates, with autonumber IDs that transposed the state codes. Naturally, if East decided to help West and enter new addresses, relational integrity would allow it, because it cares only that the foreign key exists in the proper lookup table, not what it represents. The large potential weakness here is that if you look at any two tables with autonumber keys, there is almost always a large overlap in autonumber ID values. Under the right conditions, if you cross-link a smaller table to a larger table via TFLs, you might never notice until you have hose your data, ruined an audit, etc. So, TFLs can defeat even referential integrity. TFL Failure Analysis ==================== In front-end/backend applications, TFLs fail when their external context assumptions are violated. Assumption 1: The external lookup table will always exist. Path of failure: You don't link the lookup table in the front-end, or rename the link. No table with the same name exists. Consequences: Intermittent errors. Queries relying on TFL don't show expected values. Assumption 2: The external lookup table will always match the internal name. Path of failure: The correct lookup table is linked when another table of the same name exists, or is not linked when a table of the same name exists Failure Mode 1: One or more fields referenced in the lookup SQL do not exist. Consequences: Errors. Lookup values not properly displayed. Failure Mode 2: All fields referenced in the lookup SQL exist. Consequences: No errors. Inconsistent/incorrect data displayed. * If no referential integrity defined, data entry is possible using values from the wrong lookup table. * If referential integrity is defined on Autonumber ID's, integrity will be defeated where the ID in the wrong lookup table has a match in the correct one. From accessd667 at yahoo.com Tue Mar 30 01:37:33 2004 From: accessd667 at yahoo.com (S D) Date: Mon, 29 Mar 2004 23:37:33 -0800 (PST) Subject: [AccessD] Importing data using a Class..Who can help/review? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <20040330073733.77472.qmail@web61101.mail.yahoo.com> OK, I wanted to add a minidb but a message has a max size of 30KB... I've added the code I use in the following order: Form Module Class I've got the following questions: Q1: I'm calling the method SaveLine via a function ImportInterface. I don't think that this is very good programming. How can I improve this? Q2: I'm not using properties. Do I need them? For what and why? Q3: If anyone has more tips... Form Code Private Sub cmdReadFile_Click() Dim intInterfaceID As Integer intInterfaceID = cboImport Call ImportInterface(cboImport, "D:\Temp Projecten\Access\Interface.dat") End Sub Module '========================================================================================= ' Function Name : ImportInterface ' Parameters : intInterfaceID, strFilename ' Purpose : inserts every line of the interface into tblData ' Assumptions : --- ' Uses : --- ' Created : 2004-03-29 07:56, SaDe ' Modifications : '========================================================================================= Public Sub ImportInterface(intInterfaceID As Integer, strFilename As String) Dim objFSO As FileSystemObject Dim objTS As TextStream Dim strCurrentLine As String Dim strSQL As String Dim dtmCurrentDate As Date Dim intLineID As Integer Dim cInterface As cInterface Dim cnnConnection As ADODB.Connection Dim blnSaveLineOK As Boolean On Error GoTo ImportInterface_Error Set cnnConnection = CurrentProject.Connection Set objFSO = New FileSystemObject Set objTS = objFSO.OpenTextFile(strFilename) Set cInterface = New cInterface blnSaveLineOK = False intLineID = 1 cnnConnection.BeginTrans Do While Not objTS.AtEndOfStream 'strCurrentLine = objTS.ReadLine blnSaveLineOK = cInterface.SaveLine(cnnConnection, intInterfaceID, intLineID, objTS.ReadLine) intLineID = intLineID + 1 Loop 'Check if method executed correct If blnSaveLineOK Then cnnConnection.CommitTrans Call MsgBox("Interface imported!", vbInformation) Else cnnConnection.RollbackTrans Call MsgBox("An error occured!", vbCritical) End If Set cnnConnection = Nothing Exit Sub ImportInterface_Exit: ' Collect your garbage here cnnConnection.RollbackTrans Set cnnConnection = Nothing Exit Sub ImportInterface_Error: ' Collect your garbage here MsgBox "An Error Occured!!!" & Err.Number & ";" & Err.Description End Sub class cInterface Function SaveLine(cnnConnection As ADODB.Connection, intInterfaceID As Integer, intLineID As Integer, strLine As String) As Boolean Dim rstInterfaceData As ADODB.Recordset On Error GoTo SaveLine_Error Set rstInterfaceData = New ADODB.Recordset With rstInterfaceData .ActiveConnection = cnnConnection .CursorType = adOpenKeyset .LockType = adLockOptimistic .Source = "SELECT * FROM tblInterfaceData" .Open .AddNew !InterfaceID = intInterfaceID !InterfaceDate = Format(Now) !InterfaceLine = intLineID !InterfaceData = strLine .Update End With Set rstInterfaceData = Nothing 'Set cnnConnection = Nothing SaveLine = True SaveLine_Exit: ' Collect your garbage here Set rstInterfaceData = Nothing 'Set cnnConnection = Nothing Exit Function SaveLine_Error: ' Collect your garbage here SaveLine = False Call MsgBox(Err.Number & vbCrLf & _ Err.Description & vbCrLf & _ Err.Source & vbCrLf & _ "Newest.cInterface.SaveLine", vbCritical) Resume SaveLine_Exit End Function rsmethurst at uk.ey.com wrote: Sure Sander... I will. Cheers Ryan S D Sent by: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com 29/03/2004 14:46 Please respond to Access Developers discussion and problem solving To: accessd cc: Subject: [AccessD] Importing data using a Class..Who can help/review? Hi group, I'm building a little app that is able to import textfiles. I want to do this using a class. I've made a start and it works! Does anybody have the time/interest to shoot at it? It's very basic. I've got: a class called: cInterface a method called: SaveLine TIA Sander --------------------------------- Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Finance Tax Center - File online. File on time. -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com This e-mail and any attachment are confidential and contain proprietary information, some or all of which may be legally privileged. 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A list of members? names is available for inspection at 1 More London Place, London, SE1 2AF, the firm?s principal place of business and its registered office. -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com --------------------------------- Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Finance Tax Center - File online. File on time. From mwp.reid at qub.ac.uk Tue Mar 30 02:00:09 2004 From: mwp.reid at qub.ac.uk (Martin Reid) Date: Tue, 30 Mar 2004 09:00:09 +0100 Subject: [AccessD] SQL Question - Urgent References: Message-ID: <000901c4162d$055d3370$9111758f@aine> Stuck on this Has to be done in SQL if possible as they want to use it as the criteria in a query Need to work out the following using SQL If D1 > D2 or D1 = D2 Then TM= A+B+C1+D1 Else TM= A+B+C1+D2 Next One is A+B+ Higher of (C1+D1) OR (C2+D2) Martin From accessd667 at yahoo.com Tue Mar 30 03:03:33 2004 From: accessd667 at yahoo.com (S D) Date: Tue, 30 Mar 2004 01:03:33 -0800 (PST) Subject: [AccessD] SQL Question - Urgent In-Reply-To: <000901c4162d$055d3370$9111758f@aine> Message-ID: <20040330090333.14022.qmail@web61104.mail.yahoo.com> I'm not sure but I don't think that this CAN be done with SQL. You'll have to use PL/SQL...but that's Oracle. Sander Martin Reid wrote: Stuck on this Has to be done in SQL if possible as they want to use it as the criteria in a query Need to work out the following using SQL If D1 > D2 or D1 = D2 Then TM= A+B+C1+D1 Else TM= A+B+C1+D2 Next One is A+B+ Higher of (C1+D1) OR (C2+D2) Martin -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com --------------------------------- Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Finance Tax Center - File online. File on time. From gustav at cactus.dk Tue Mar 30 03:04:09 2004 From: gustav at cactus.dk (Gustav Brock) Date: Tue, 30 Mar 2004 11:04:09 +0200 Subject: [AccessD] SQL Question - Urgent In-Reply-To: <000901c4162d$055d3370$9111758f@aine> References: <000901c4162d$055d3370$9111758f@aine> Message-ID: <57777513.20040330110409@cactus.dk> Hi Martin > Has to be done in SQL if possible as they want to use it as the criteria in > a query > Need to work out the following using SQL > If D1 > D2 or D1 = D2 Then > TM= A+B+C1+D1 > Else > TM= A+B+C1+D2 That could be: TM: A + B + C1 + IIf(D1 >= D2, D1, D2) or: TM: A + B + C1 + (ABS(D1 >= D2) * D1) + (ABS(D1 < D2) * D2) > Next One is > A+B+ Higher of (C1+D1) OR (C2+D2) How about: X: A + B + IIf((C1 + D1) > (C2 + D2), C1 + D1, C2 + D2) or using ABS() as above. /gustav From mwp.reid at qub.ac.uk Tue Mar 30 03:15:03 2004 From: mwp.reid at qub.ac.uk (Martin Reid) Date: Tue, 30 Mar 2004 10:15:03 +0100 Subject: [AccessD] SQL Question - Urgent References: <000901c4162d$055d3370$9111758f@aine> <57777513.20040330110409@cactus.dk> Message-ID: <000d01c41637$7c35f5e0$9111758f@aine> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Gustav Brock" To: "Access Developers discussion and problem solving" Sent: Tuesday, March 30, 2004 10:04 AM Subject: Re: [AccessD] SQL Question - Urgent > Hi Martin > > > Has to be done in SQL if possible as they want to use it as the criteria in > > a query > > > Need to work out the following using SQL > > > If D1 > D2 or D1 = D2 Then > > > TM= A+B+C1+D1 > > > Else > > > TM= A+B+C1+D2 > > That could be: > > TM: A + B + C1 + IIf(D1 >= D2, D1, D2) > > or: > > TM: A + B + C1 + (ABS(D1 >= D2) * D1) + (ABS(D1 < D2) * D2) > > > > Next One is > > > A+B+ Higher of (C1+D1) OR (C2+D2) > > How about: > > X: A + B + IIf((C1 + D1) > (C2 + D2), C1 + D1, C2 + D2) > > or using ABS() as above. > > /gustav > > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > From mwp.reid at qub.ac.uk Tue Mar 30 03:15:38 2004 From: mwp.reid at qub.ac.uk (Martin Reid) Date: Tue, 30 Mar 2004 10:15:38 +0100 Subject: [AccessD] SQL Question - Urgent References: <000901c4162d$055d3370$9111758f@aine> <57777513.20040330110409@cactus.dk> Message-ID: <001101c41637$91366510$9111758f@aine> Thanks Gustav. Got it working using the uqery and the IIF Martin ----- Original Message ----- From: "Gustav Brock" To: "Access Developers discussion and problem solving" Sent: Tuesday, March 30, 2004 10:04 AM Subject: Re: [AccessD] SQL Question - Urgent > Hi Martin > > > Has to be done in SQL if possible as they want to use it as the criteria in > > a query > > > Need to work out the following using SQL > > > If D1 > D2 or D1 = D2 Then > > > TM= A+B+C1+D1 > > > Else > > > TM= A+B+C1+D2 > > That could be: > > TM: A + B + C1 + IIf(D1 >= D2, D1, D2) > > or: > > TM: A + B + C1 + (ABS(D1 >= D2) * D1) + (ABS(D1 < D2) * D2) > > > > Next One is > > > A+B+ Higher of (C1+D1) OR (C2+D2) > > How about: > > X: A + B + IIf((C1 + D1) > (C2 + D2), C1 + D1, C2 + D2) > > or using ABS() as above. > > /gustav > > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > From andy at minstersystems.co.uk Tue Mar 30 04:19:37 2004 From: andy at minstersystems.co.uk (Andy Lacey) Date: Tue, 30 Mar 2004 10:19:37 +0000 Subject: [AccessD] Importing data using a Class..Who can help/review? Message-ID: <20040330091935.ACF64250060@smtp.nildram.co.uk> Sorry Sander, if you want to send an mdb you'll have to do so direct, ie off-list. -- Andy Lacey http://www.minstersystems.co.uk --------- Original Message -------- From: Access Developers discussion and problem solving To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Importing data using a Class..Who can help/review? Date: 30/03/04 07:39 > > OK, I wanted to add a minidb but a message has a max size of 30KB... > > I've added the code I use in the following order: > Form > Module > Class > > I've got the following questions: > Q1: I'm calling the method SaveLine via a function ImportInterface. I don't think that this is very good programming. > How can I improve this? > Q2: I'm not using properties. Do I need them? For what and why? > > Q3: If anyone has more tips... > > Form Code > Private Sub cmdReadFile_Click() > Dim intInterfaceID As Integer > > intInterfaceID = cboImport > > Call ImportInterface(cboImport, "D:Temp ProjectenAccessInterface.dat") > End Sub > > Module > > '========================================================================================= > ' Function Name : ImportInterface > ' Parameters : intInterfaceID, strFilename > ' Purpose : inserts every line of the interface into tblData > ' Assumptions : --- > ' Uses : --- > ' Created : 2004-03-29 07:56, SaDe > ' Modifications : > '========================================================================================= > Public Sub ImportInterface(intInterfaceID As Integer, strFilename As String) > Dim objFSO As FileSystemObject > Dim objTS As TextStream > Dim strCurrentLine As String > Dim strSQL As String > Dim dtmCurrentDate As Date > Dim intLineID As Integer > Dim cInterface As cInterface > Dim cnnConnection As ADODB.Connection > Dim blnSaveLineOK As Boolean > > On Error GoTo ImportInterface_Error > > Set cnnConnection = CurrentProject.Connection > Set objFSO = New FileSystemObject > Set objTS = objFSO.OpenTextFile(strFilename) > Set cInterface = New cInterface > > blnSaveLineOK = False > > intLineID = 1 > cnnConnection.BeginTrans > > Do While Not objTS.AtEndOfStream > 'strCurrentLine = objTS.ReadLine > blnSaveLineOK = cInterface.SaveLine(cnnConnection, intInterfaceID, intLineID, objTS.ReadLine) > intLineID = intLineID + 1 > Loop > > 'Check if method executed correct > If blnSaveLineOK Then > cnnConnection.CommitTrans > Call MsgBox("Interface imported!", vbInformation) > Else > cnnConnection.RollbackTrans > Call MsgBox("An error occured!", vbCritical) > End If > > Set cnnConnection = Nothing > > Exit Sub > ImportInterface_Exit: > ' Collect your garbage here > cnnConnection.RollbackTrans > Set cnnConnection = Nothing > > Exit Sub > ImportInterface_Error: > ' Collect your garbage here > MsgBox "An Error Occured!!!" & Err.Number & ";" & Err.Description > End Sub > > class cInterface > Function SaveLine(cnnConnection As ADODB.Connection, intInterfaceID As Integer, intLineID As Integer, strLine As String) As Boolean > Dim rstInterfaceData As ADODB.Recordset > > On Error GoTo SaveLine_Error > Set rstInterfaceData = New ADODB.Recordset > > With rstInterfaceData > .ActiveConnection = cnnConnection > .CursorType = adOpenKeyset > .LockType = adLockOptimistic > .Source = "SELECT * FROM tblInterfaceData" > .Open > > .AddNew > !InterfaceID = intInterfaceID > !InterfaceDate = Format(Now) > !InterfaceLine = intLineID > !InterfaceData = strLine > .Update > End With > > Set rstInterfaceData = Nothing > 'Set cnnConnection = Nothing > SaveLine = True > SaveLine_Exit: > ' Collect your garbage here > Set rstInterfaceData = Nothing > 'Set cnnConnection = Nothing > Exit Function > > SaveLine_Error: > ' Collect your garbage here > SaveLine = False > Call MsgBox(Err.Number & vbCrLf & _ > Err.Description & vbCrLf & _ > Err.Source & vbCrLf & _ > "Newest.cInterface.SaveLine", vbCritical) > Resume SaveLine_Exit > End Function > > > rsmethurst at uk.ey.com wrote: > Sure Sander... > > I will. > > Cheers > Ryan > > > > > S D > Sent by: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > 29/03/2004 14:46 > Please respond to Access Developers discussion and problem solving > > > To: accessd > cc: > Subject: [AccessD] Importing data using a Class..Who can help/review? > > > Hi group, > > I'm building a little app that is able to import textfiles. I want to do > this using a class. I've made a start and it works! Does anybody have the > time/interest to shoot at it? > > It's very basic. > I've got: > a class called: cInterface > a method called: SaveLine > > TIA > > Sander > > > > --------------------------------- > Do you Yahoo!? > Yahoo! Finance Tax Center - File online. File on time. > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > > > > This e-mail and any attachment are confidential and contain proprietary information, some or all of which may be legally privileged. It is intended solely for the use of the individual or entity to which it is addressed. If you are not the intended recipient, please notify the author immediately by telephone or by replying to this e-mail, and then delete all copies of the e-mail on your system. If you are not the intended recipient, you must not use, disclose, distribute, copy, print or rely on this e-mail. > > Whilst we have taken reasonable precautions to ensure that this e-mail and any attachment has been checked for viruses, we cannot guarantee that they are virus free and we cannot accept liability for any damage sustained as a result of software viruses. We would advise that you carry out your own virus checks, especially before opening an attachment. > > The UK firm Ernst & Young LLP is a limited liability partnership registered in England and Wales with registered number OC300001 and is a member practice of Ernst & Young Global. A list of members? names is available for inspection at 1 More London Place, London, SE1 2AF, the firm?s principal place of business and its registered office. > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > --------------------------------- > Do you Yahoo!? > Yahoo! Finance Tax Center - File online. File on time. > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > > > ________________________________________________ Message sent using UebiMiau 2.7.2 From gustav at cactus.dk Tue Mar 30 03:10:19 2004 From: gustav at cactus.dk (Gustav Brock) Date: Tue, 30 Mar 2004 11:10:19 +0200 Subject: [AccessD] Slightly OT In-Reply-To: <20040329170358.1651494451.serbach@new.rr.com> References: <20040329170358.1651494451.serbach@new.rr.com> Message-ID: <1528147715.20040330111019@cactus.dk> Hi Steven This must be the comment of the week! I'm sure Susan kept his copy, just to protect him ... /gustav >>> We want to take a couple of hundred Access databases and move them to SQL Server. WHat sort of problems do you see in terms of...<< > Um, Martin? Don't I own a book with your name on it called "SQL: Access to SQL Server?" > Regards, > Steve Erbach > Scientific Marketing > Neenah, WI > 920-969-0504 > "Don't light a match 'til ya know which end of the dog is barkin'." - Dave Barry From gustav at cactus.dk Tue Mar 30 03:25:32 2004 From: gustav at cactus.dk (Gustav Brock) Date: Tue, 30 Mar 2004 11:25:32 +0200 Subject: [AccessD] Slightly OT In-Reply-To: <003101c415c6$9b04d6b0$1b02a8c0@MARTINREID> References: <000301c411aa$1d158a80$6401a8c0@COA3> <40638618.8080805@shaw.ca><1626260251.20040326103055@cactus.dk><000901c4159b$2a3a1420$9111758f@aine> <40685C8E.8010804@shaw.ca> <003101c415c6$9b04d6b0$1b02a8c0@MARTINREID> Message-ID: <1389061209.20040330112532@cactus.dk> Hi Martin Hard to say without knowing anything about the use of these databases and the complexity of the frontends. Without redesigning the frontends, you would be stuck with ODBC connection which may be fully acceptable but then - also in the light of potential licensing cost - you could as well use an alternative (open source and/or low cost) engine. I guess administering of users and rights to this myriad of databases could be the highest of all running cost. /gustav > Comments > We want to take a couple of hundred Access databases and move them to SQL > Server. WHat sort of problems do you see in terms of > Performance > Security > Re design > Backup > Staffing in terms of DBAs > anything else??? > Martin From mwp.reid at qub.ac.uk Tue Mar 30 03:35:29 2004 From: mwp.reid at qub.ac.uk (Martin Reid) Date: Tue, 30 Mar 2004 10:35:29 +0100 Subject: [AccessD] Slightly OT References: <20040329170358.1651494451.serbach@new.rr.com> <1528147715.20040330111019@cactus.dk> Message-ID: <000f01c4163a$57398c40$9111758f@aine> LOL That was good. Was just looking for some insight more to do with the management of multiple converted Access DBs migrated to SQL Server in terms of changes to backup and security and anything else that may prove interesting. Its a brain picking exercise for a project I am looking at. Not really looking at the data conversion more from the management side of things. Martin ----- Original Message ----- From: "Gustav Brock" To: "Access Developers discussion and problem solving" Sent: Tuesday, March 30, 2004 10:10 AM Subject: Re: [AccessD] Slightly OT > Hi Steven > > This must be the comment of the week! > > I'm sure Susan kept his copy, just to protect him ... > > /gustav > > > >>> We want to take a couple of hundred Access databases and move them to SQL Server. WHat sort of problems do you see in terms of...<< > > > Um, Martin? Don't I own a book with your name on it called "SQL: Access to SQL Server?" > > > Regards, > > > Steve Erbach > > Scientific Marketing > > Neenah, WI > > 920-969-0504 > > > "Don't light a match 'til ya know which end of the dog is barkin'." - Dave Barry > > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > From ssharkins at bellsouth.net Tue Mar 30 07:23:55 2004 From: ssharkins at bellsouth.net (Susan Harkins) Date: Tue, 30 Mar 2004 08:23:55 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Slightly OT In-Reply-To: <1528147715.20040330111019@cactus.dk> Message-ID: <20040330132354.PYOL1715.imf16aec.mail.bellsouth.net@SUSANONE> Now, in Martin's defense he didn't ask "how" -- he asked what he could expect converting 100's -- I didn't understand the question, but it really wasn't the same thing. Give the guy a break! ;) Susan H. Hi Steven This must be the comment of the week! I'm sure Susan kept his copy, just to protect him ... /gustav From gustav at cactus.dk Tue Mar 30 07:49:52 2004 From: gustav at cactus.dk (Gustav Brock) Date: Tue, 30 Mar 2004 15:49:52 +0200 Subject: [AccessD] Lookup Fields in Table Design In-Reply-To: <20040326211100.JUVT1763.imf25aec.mail.bellsouth.net@SUSANONE> References: <20040326211100.JUVT1763.imf25aec.mail.bellsouth.net@SUSANONE> Message-ID: <2424920353.20040330154952@cactus.dk> Nice try, Susan, but didn't exactly you redirect and fire this 100+ thread? I don't know how you manage to do it but it goes without saying that you did it again! /gustav > OK, I relinquish my position as main troublemaker. Obviously, I have > been outmaneuvered. :) > Susan H. --- >> From: Susan Harkins [mailto:ssharkins at bellsouth.net] >> Sent: Thursday, March 25, 2004 10:03 AM >> To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' >> Subject: RE: [AccessD] Framework Discussion - set up question >> Here we goooooooooooooooooooo! ;) From ssharkins at bellsouth.net Tue Mar 30 08:10:43 2004 From: ssharkins at bellsouth.net (Susan Harkins) Date: Tue, 30 Mar 2004 09:10:43 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Lookup Fields in Table Design In-Reply-To: <2424920353.20040330154952@cactus.dk> Message-ID: <20040330141042.GEGC1709.imf20aec.mail.bellsouth.net@SUSANONE> Yeah, but I was only kidding. ;) Susan H. Nice try, Susan, but didn't exactly you redirect and fire this 100+ thread? I don't know how you manage to do it but it goes without saying that you did it again! /gustav From Jdemarco at hudsonhealthplan.org Tue Mar 30 08:35:30 2004 From: Jdemarco at hudsonhealthplan.org (Jim DeMarco) Date: Tue, 30 Mar 2004 09:35:30 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Importing data using a Class..Who can help/review? Message-ID: <22F1CCD5171D17419CB37FEEE09D5F99030FE65E@TTNEXCHSRV1.hshhp.com> Sander, I took a quick look at this and I do see one thing I'd change. Rather than pass the connection and InterfaceID to every call of the cInterface.SaveLine method why not create an Init method in cInterface where you can pass in the connection and ID one time only before the loop? So your ImportInterface code might look like this when you're done: cnnConnection.BeginTrans cInterface.Init cnnConnection, intInterfaceID Do While Not objTS.AtEndOfStream 'strCurrentLine = objTS.ReadLine blnSaveLineOK = cInterface.SaveLine(intLineID, objTS.ReadLine) intLineID = intLineID + 1 Loop And your class would have a couple of module level variables to hold the connection and InterfaceID: Dim m_oCnn as ADODB.Connection Dim m_intInterfaceID as Integer Public Sub Init(Connection as ADODB.Connection, InterfaceID as Integer) Set m_oCnn = Connection m_intInterfaceID = InterfaceID End Sub Function SaveLine(intLineID As Integer, strLine As String) As Boolean Dim rstInterfaceData As ADODB.Recordset On Error GoTo SaveLine_Error Set rstInterfaceData = New ADODB.Recordset With rstInterfaceData .ActiveConnection = oCnn .CursorType = adOpenKeyset .LockType = adLockOptimistic .Source = "SELECT * FROM tblInterfaceData" .Open .AddNew !InterfaceID = intInterfaceID !InterfaceDate = Format(Now) !InterfaceLine = intLineID !InterfaceData = strLine .Update End With ' ...remaining code omitted for space HTH Jim DeMarco Director Application Development Hudson Health Plan -----Original Message----- From: S D [mailto:accessd667 at yahoo.com] Sent: Tuesday, March 30, 2004 2:38 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Importing data using a Class..Who can help/review? OK, I wanted to add a minidb but a message has a max size of 30KB... I've added the code I use in the following order: Form Module Class I've got the following questions: Q1: I'm calling the method SaveLine via a function ImportInterface. I don't think that this is very good programming. How can I improve this? Q2: I'm not using properties. Do I need them? For what and why? Q3: If anyone has more tips... Form Code Private Sub cmdReadFile_Click() Dim intInterfaceID As Integer intInterfaceID = cboImport Call ImportInterface(cboImport, "D:\Temp Projecten\Access\Interface.dat") End Sub Module '========================================================================================= ' Function Name : ImportInterface ' Parameters : intInterfaceID, strFilename ' Purpose : inserts every line of the interface into tblData ' Assumptions : --- ' Uses : --- ' Created : 2004-03-29 07:56, SaDe ' Modifications : '========================================================================================= Public Sub ImportInterface(intInterfaceID As Integer, strFilename As String) Dim objFSO As FileSystemObject Dim objTS As TextStream Dim strCurrentLine As String Dim strSQL As String Dim dtmCurrentDate As Date Dim intLineID As Integer Dim cInterface As cInterface Dim cnnConnection As ADODB.Connection Dim blnSaveLineOK As Boolean On Error GoTo ImportInterface_Error Set cnnConnection = CurrentProject.Connection Set objFSO = New FileSystemObject Set objTS = objFSO.OpenTextFile(strFilename) Set cInterface = New cInterface blnSaveLineOK = False intLineID = 1 cnnConnection.BeginTrans Do While Not objTS.AtEndOfStream 'strCurrentLine = objTS.ReadLine blnSaveLineOK = cInterface.SaveLine(cnnConnection, intInterfaceID, intLineID, objTS.ReadLine) intLineID = intLineID + 1 Loop 'Check if method executed correct If blnSaveLineOK Then cnnConnection.CommitTrans Call MsgBox("Interface imported!", vbInformation) Else cnnConnection.RollbackTrans Call MsgBox("An error occured!", vbCritical) End If Set cnnConnection = Nothing Exit Sub ImportInterface_Exit: ' Collect your garbage here cnnConnection.RollbackTrans Set cnnConnection = Nothing Exit Sub ImportInterface_Error: ' Collect your garbage here MsgBox "An Error Occured!!!" & Err.Number & ";" & Err.Description End Sub class cInterface Function SaveLine(cnnConnection As ADODB.Connection, intInterfaceID As Integer, intLineID As Integer, strLine As String) As Boolean Dim rstInterfaceData As ADODB.Recordset On Error GoTo SaveLine_Error Set rstInterfaceData = New ADODB.Recordset With rstInterfaceData .ActiveConnection = cnnConnection .CursorType = adOpenKeyset .LockType = adLockOptimistic .Source = "SELECT * FROM tblInterfaceData" .Open .AddNew !InterfaceID = intInterfaceID !InterfaceDate = Format(Now) !InterfaceLine = intLineID !InterfaceData = strLine .Update End With Set rstInterfaceData = Nothing 'Set cnnConnection = Nothing SaveLine = True SaveLine_Exit: ' Collect your garbage here Set rstInterfaceData = Nothing 'Set cnnConnection = Nothing Exit Function SaveLine_Error: ' Collect your garbage here SaveLine = False Call MsgBox(Err.Number & vbCrLf & _ Err.Description & vbCrLf & _ Err.Source & vbCrLf & _ "Newest.cInterface.SaveLine", vbCritical) Resume SaveLine_Exit End Function rsmethurst at uk.ey.com wrote: Sure Sander... I will. Cheers Ryan S D Sent by: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com 29/03/2004 14:46 Please respond to Access Developers discussion and problem solving To: accessd cc: Subject: [AccessD] Importing data using a Class..Who can help/review? Hi group, I'm building a little app that is able to import textfiles. I want to do this using a class. I've made a start and it works! Does anybody have the time/interest to shoot at it? It's very basic. I've got: a class called: cInterface a method called: SaveLine TIA Sander --------------------------------- Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Finance Tax Center - File online. File on time. -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com This e-mail and any attachment are confidential and contain proprietary information, some or all of which may be legally privileged. It is intended solely for the use of the individual or entity to which it is addressed. If you are not the intended recipient, please notify the author immediately by telephone or by replying to this e-mail, and then delete all copies of the e-mail on your system. If you are not the intended recipient, you must not use, disclose, distribute, copy, print or rely on this e-mail. Whilst we have taken reasonable precautions to ensure that this e-mail and any attachment has been checked for viruses, we cannot guarantee that they are virus free and we cannot accept liability for any damage sustained as a result of software viruses. We would advise that you carry out your own virus checks, especially before opening an attachment. The UK firm Ernst & Young LLP is a limited liability partnership registered in England and Wales with registered number OC300001 and is a member practice of Ernst & Young Global. A list of members? names is available for inspection at 1 More London Place, London, SE1 2AF, the firm?s principal place of business and its registered office. -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com --------------------------------- Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Finance Tax Center - File online. File on time. -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com *********************************************************************************** "This electronic message is intended to be for the use only of the named recipient, and may contain information from Hudson Health Plan (HHP) that is confidential or privileged. If you are not the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any disclosure, copying, distribution or use of the contents of this message is strictly prohibited. If you have received this message in error or are not the named recipient, please notify us immediately, either by contacting the sender at the electronic mail address noted above or calling HHP at (914) 631-1611. If you are not the intended recipient, please do not forward this email to anyone, and delete and destroy all copies of this message. Thank You". *********************************************************************************** From serbach at new.rr.com Tue Mar 30 08:46:51 2004 From: serbach at new.rr.com (Steven W. Erbach) Date: Tue, 30 Mar 2004 08:46:51 -0600 Subject: [AccessD] OT: A survey from somebody not as well-connected as JC Message-ID: <20040330084651.1318111505.serbach@new.rr.com> Kath, >> what sort of work have you been doing mostly? << Custom development using Access. Right at the moment, though, I have more Paradox work: I'm implementing a custom EDI application for a client that still uses Paradox for DOS. I got him to agree to have the EDI translation part done in Access by letting him know that it would cost a *lot* more for me to write it in the Paradox Application Language. So I got him to buy a "black box" EDI management tool that includes DLLs I can reference in VBA to build and translate EDI documents. I will also be upgrading a Paradox for Windows application for another client this week. I've asked if the app might be translated to something a bit more current (not that I hate Paradox; I don't. I used to be the biggest Paradox evangelist in these here parts: classes, user group, newsletter...It's just not currently being upgraded by Corel). My recent Access apps have included one for an ergonomic therapy outfit that tracks the physical job stresses for its industrial clients with my app. And I've done quite a bit with the domestic violence shelter app I acquired last year though that looks like a long-term loser. Hard to say at this point. >> Which tools do you use the most? << Access 2000, Paradox for DOS, Paradox v. 8 and 9, FMS Visual Sourcebook, FMS Codetools, Framework EDI, and VB6. Regards, Steve Erbach Scientific Marketing Neenah, WI 920-969-0504 "Don't light a match 'til ya know which end of the dog is barkin'." - Dave Barry From mwp.reid at qub.ac.uk Tue Mar 30 08:45:01 2004 From: mwp.reid at qub.ac.uk (Martin Reid) Date: Tue, 30 Mar 2004 15:45:01 +0100 Subject: [AccessD] SQL Question - Gustav References: <22F1CCD5171D17419CB37FEEE09D5F99030FE65E@TTNEXCHSRV1.hshhp.com> Message-ID: <001801c41665$95024b40$9111758f@aine> Gustav Could you re post your response from thsi morning. I seem to be missing something. Martin From Mike.W.Gowey at doc.state.or.us Tue Mar 30 08:46:25 2004 From: Mike.W.Gowey at doc.state.or.us (Gowey Mike W) Date: Tue, 30 Mar 2004 07:46:25 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] E-Mailing a Report Message-ID: <05EBB8A3BEB95B4F8216BE4EF486077802AA3E72@srciml1.ds.doc.state.or.us> Hi Everyone, I'm sure this is probably a basic question but I can't seem to think of it today. Is there a way for me to allow a user to select the e-mail address that they want to send a report to using the global list from our Exchange server?? Thanks in advance for any help :-) Mike Gowey, MCSA, A+,ACE Team Leader - SRCI Information Systems & Services Division Technical Support Analyst From Jdemarco at hudsonhealthplan.org Tue Mar 30 08:53:01 2004 From: Jdemarco at hudsonhealthplan.org (Jim DeMarco) Date: Tue, 30 Mar 2004 09:53:01 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Importing data using a Class..Who can help/review? Message-ID: <22F1CCD5171D17419CB37FEEE09D5F99030FE65F@TTNEXCHSRV1.hshhp.com> Sorry there's an error in the code I posted. In the SaveLine method this: With rstInterfaceData .ActiveConnection = oCnn .CursorType = adOpenKeyset .LockType = adLockOptimistic .Source = "SELECT * FROM tblInterfaceData" .Open .AddNew !InterfaceID = intInterfaceID ' ...code omitted should be: With rstInterfaceData .ActiveConnection = m_oCnn .CursorType = adOpenKeyset .LockType = adLockOptimistic .Source = "SELECT * FROM tblInterfaceData" .Open .AddNew !InterfaceID = m_intInterfaceID ' ...code omitted ...forgot to refer to the module level variables! Jim DeMarco -----Original Message----- From: Jim DeMarco Sent: Tuesday, March 30, 2004 9:36 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] Importing data using a Class..Who can help/review? Sander, I took a quick look at this and I do see one thing I'd change. Rather than pass the connection and InterfaceID to every call of the cInterface.SaveLine method why not create an Init method in cInterface where you can pass in the connection and ID one time only before the loop? So your ImportInterface code might look like this when you're done: cnnConnection.BeginTrans cInterface.Init cnnConnection, intInterfaceID Do While Not objTS.AtEndOfStream 'strCurrentLine = objTS.ReadLine blnSaveLineOK = cInterface.SaveLine(intLineID, objTS.ReadLine) intLineID = intLineID + 1 Loop And your class would have a couple of module level variables to hold the connection and InterfaceID: Dim m_oCnn as ADODB.Connection Dim m_intInterfaceID as Integer Public Sub Init(Connection as ADODB.Connection, InterfaceID as Integer) Set m_oCnn = Connection m_intInterfaceID = InterfaceID End Sub Function SaveLine(intLineID As Integer, strLine As String) As Boolean Dim rstInterfaceData As ADODB.Recordset On Error GoTo SaveLine_Error Set rstInterfaceData = New ADODB.Recordset With rstInterfaceData .ActiveConnection = oCnn .CursorType = adOpenKeyset .LockType = adLockOptimistic .Source = "SELECT * FROM tblInterfaceData" .Open .AddNew !InterfaceID = intInterfaceID !InterfaceDate = Format(Now) !InterfaceLine = intLineID !InterfaceData = strLine .Update End With ' ...remaining code omitted for space HTH Jim DeMarco Director Application Development Hudson Health Plan -----Original Message----- From: S D [mailto:accessd667 at yahoo.com] Sent: Tuesday, March 30, 2004 2:38 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Importing data using a Class..Who can help/review? OK, I wanted to add a minidb but a message has a max size of 30KB... I've added the code I use in the following order: Form Module Class I've got the following questions: Q1: I'm calling the method SaveLine via a function ImportInterface. I don't think that this is very good programming. How can I improve this? Q2: I'm not using properties. Do I need them? For what and why? Q3: If anyone has more tips... Form Code Private Sub cmdReadFile_Click() Dim intInterfaceID As Integer intInterfaceID = cboImport Call ImportInterface(cboImport, "D:\Temp Projecten\Access\Interface.dat") End Sub Module '========================================================================================= ' Function Name : ImportInterface ' Parameters : intInterfaceID, strFilename ' Purpose : inserts every line of the interface into tblData ' Assumptions : --- ' Uses : --- ' Created : 2004-03-29 07:56, SaDe ' Modifications : '========================================================================================= Public Sub ImportInterface(intInterfaceID As Integer, strFilename As String) Dim objFSO As FileSystemObject Dim objTS As TextStream Dim strCurrentLine As String Dim strSQL As String Dim dtmCurrentDate As Date Dim intLineID As Integer Dim cInterface As cInterface Dim cnnConnection As ADODB.Connection Dim blnSaveLineOK As Boolean On Error GoTo ImportInterface_Error Set cnnConnection = CurrentProject.Connection Set objFSO = New FileSystemObject Set objTS = objFSO.OpenTextFile(strFilename) Set cInterface = New cInterface blnSaveLineOK = False intLineID = 1 cnnConnection.BeginTrans Do While Not objTS.AtEndOfStream 'strCurrentLine = objTS.ReadLine blnSaveLineOK = cInterface.SaveLine(cnnConnection, intInterfaceID, intLineID, objTS.ReadLine) intLineID = intLineID + 1 Loop 'Check if method executed correct If blnSaveLineOK Then cnnConnection.CommitTrans Call MsgBox("Interface imported!", vbInformation) Else cnnConnection.RollbackTrans Call MsgBox("An error occured!", vbCritical) End If Set cnnConnection = Nothing Exit Sub ImportInterface_Exit: ' Collect your garbage here cnnConnection.RollbackTrans Set cnnConnection = Nothing Exit Sub ImportInterface_Error: ' Collect your garbage here MsgBox "An Error Occured!!!" & Err.Number & ";" & Err.Description End Sub class cInterface Function SaveLine(cnnConnection As ADODB.Connection, intInterfaceID As Integer, intLineID As Integer, strLine As String) As Boolean Dim rstInterfaceData As ADODB.Recordset On Error GoTo SaveLine_Error Set rstInterfaceData = New ADODB.Recordset With rstInterfaceData .ActiveConnection = cnnConnection .CursorType = adOpenKeyset .LockType = adLockOptimistic .Source = "SELECT * FROM tblInterfaceData" .Open .AddNew !InterfaceID = intInterfaceID !InterfaceDate = Format(Now) !InterfaceLine = intLineID !InterfaceData = strLine .Update End With Set rstInterfaceData = Nothing 'Set cnnConnection = Nothing SaveLine = True SaveLine_Exit: ' Collect your garbage here Set rstInterfaceData = Nothing 'Set cnnConnection = Nothing Exit Function SaveLine_Error: ' Collect your garbage here SaveLine = False Call MsgBox(Err.Number & vbCrLf & _ Err.Description & vbCrLf & _ Err.Source & vbCrLf & _ "Newest.cInterface.SaveLine", vbCritical) Resume SaveLine_Exit End Function rsmethurst at uk.ey.com wrote: Sure Sander... I will. Cheers Ryan S D Sent by: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com 29/03/2004 14:46 Please respond to Access Developers discussion and problem solving To: accessd cc: Subject: [AccessD] Importing data using a Class..Who can help/review? Hi group, I'm building a little app that is able to import textfiles. I want to do this using a class. I've made a start and it works! Does anybody have the time/interest to shoot at it? It's very basic. I've got: a class called: cInterface a method called: SaveLine TIA Sander --------------------------------- Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Finance Tax Center - File online. File on time. -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com This e-mail and any attachment are confidential and contain proprietary information, some or all of which may be legally privileged. 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A list of members? names is available for inspection at 1 More London Place, London, SE1 2AF, the firm?s principal place of business and its registered office. -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com --------------------------------- Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Finance Tax Center - File online. File on time. -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com *********************************************************************************** "This electronic message is intended to be for the use only of the named recipient, and may contain information from Hudson Health Plan (HHP) that is confidential or privileged. If you are not the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any disclosure, copying, distribution or use of the contents of this message is strictly prohibited. If you have received this message in error or are not the named recipient, please notify us immediately, either by contacting the sender at the electronic mail address noted above or calling HHP at (914) 631-1611. If you are not the intended recipient, please do not forward this email to anyone, and delete and destroy all copies of this message. Thank You". *********************************************************************************** -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com *********************************************************************************** "This electronic message is intended to be for the use only of the named recipient, and may contain information from Hudson Health Plan (HHP) that is confidential or privileged. If you are not the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any disclosure, copying, distribution or use of the contents of this message is strictly prohibited. If you have received this message in error or are not the named recipient, please notify us immediately, either by contacting the sender at the electronic mail address noted above or calling HHP at (914) 631-1611. If you are not the intended recipient, please do not forward this email to anyone, and delete and destroy all copies of this message. Thank You". *********************************************************************************** From andy at minstersystems.co.uk Tue Mar 30 10:04:41 2004 From: andy at minstersystems.co.uk (Andy Lacey) Date: Tue, 30 Mar 2004 16:04:41 +0000 Subject: [AccessD] E-Mailing a Report Message-ID: <20040330150438.192D425E109@smtp.nildram.co.uk> Hi Mike Not sure how you're doing the emailing but if you're simply using Docmd.SendObject then the nth parameter (see Help) is 'editmessage'. Set that to True and your email app gets opened so the user can pick addressees him/herself. -- Andy Lacey http://www.minstersystems.co.uk --------- Original Message -------- From: Access Developers discussion and problem solving To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: [AccessD] E-Mailing a Report Date: 30/03/04 14:53 > > > Hi Everyone, > > I'm sure this is probably a basic question but I can't seem to think of > it today. Is there a way for me to allow a user to select the e-mail > address that they want to send a report to using the global list from > our Exchange server?? > > Thanks in advance for any help :-) > > Mike Gowey, MCSA, A+,ACE > Team Leader - SRCI > Information Systems & Services Division > Technical Support Analyst > > > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > > ________________________________________________ Message sent using UebiMiau 2.7.2 From mwp.reid at qub.ac.uk Tue Mar 30 09:21:17 2004 From: mwp.reid at qub.ac.uk (Martin Reid) Date: Tue, 30 Mar 2004 16:21:17 +0100 Subject: [AccessD] SQL Repost References: <000301c411aa$1d158a80$6401a8c0@COA3><40638618.8080805@shaw.ca><1626260251.20040326103055@cactus.dk><000901c4159b$2a3a1420$9111758f@aine><40685C8E.8010804@shaw.ca> <003101c415c6$9b04d6b0$1b02a8c0@MARTINREID> <1389061209.20040330112532@cactus.dk> Message-ID: <001b01c4166a$a5ec0770$9111758f@aine> Sorry I deleted the origional reply Heres the outline TM= A+B+C1+ (Higher of D1 or D2) TMD= A+B+C1+ (higher of (C1+D1) or C2+D2) As before it must be SQL and account for nulls. The IIF works but I am missing something in the syntax re the null values. Apologies to gustave as I deleted his email. From gustav at cactus.dk Tue Mar 30 09:41:13 2004 From: gustav at cactus.dk (Gustav Brock) Date: Tue, 30 Mar 2004 17:41:13 +0200 Subject: [AccessD] Lookup Fields in Table Design In-Reply-To: <20040330141042.GEGC1709.imf20aec.mail.bellsouth.net@SUSANONE> References: <20040330141042.GEGC1709.imf20aec.mail.bellsouth.net@SUSANONE> Message-ID: <14931601790.20040330174113@cactus.dk> Hi Susan It turns better and better! That comment reminds me of some experiences in the school yard where someone (mostly nice little girls) tried to wash their hands after something "just happened" ... /gustav > Yeah, but I was only kidding. ;) > Susan H. > Nice try, Susan, but didn't exactly you redirect and fire this 100+ thread? > I don't know how you manage to do it but it goes without saying that you did > it again! > /gustav From gustav at cactus.dk Tue Mar 30 09:45:58 2004 From: gustav at cactus.dk (Gustav Brock) Date: Tue, 30 Mar 2004 17:45:58 +0200 Subject: [AccessD] SQL Question - Gustav In-Reply-To: <001801c41665$95024b40$9111758f@aine> References: <22F1CCD5171D17419CB37FEEE09D5F99030FE65E@TTNEXCHSRV1.hshhp.com> <001801c41665$95024b40$9111758f@aine> Message-ID: <831886360.20040330174558@cactus.dk> Hi Martin OK. Sent off-line. /gustav > Gustav > Could you re post your response from thsi morning. I seem to be missing > something. > Martin From gustav at cactus.dk Tue Mar 30 09:49:50 2004 From: gustav at cactus.dk (Gustav Brock) Date: Tue, 30 Mar 2004 17:49:50 +0200 Subject: [AccessD] SQL Repost In-Reply-To: <001b01c4166a$a5ec0770$9111758f@aine> References: <000301c411aa$1d158a80$6401a8c0@COA3><40638618.8080805@shaw.ca><1626260251.20040326103055@cactus.dk><000901c4159b$2a3a1420$9111758f@aine><40685C8E.8010804@shaw.ca> <003101c415c6$9b04d6b0$1b02a8c0@MARTINREID> <1389061209.20040330112532@cactus.dk> <001b01c4166a$a5ec0770$9111758f@aine> Message-ID: <4232119245.20040330174950@cactus.dk> Hi Martin Can't you just wrap those expressions in Nz()? /gustav > Sorry I deleted the origional reply > Heres the outline > TM= A+B+C1+ (Higher of D1 or D2) > TMD= A+B+C1+ (higher of (C1+D1) or C2+D2) > As before it must be SQL and account for nulls. The IIF works but I am > missing something in the syntax re the null values. > Apologies to gustave as I deleted his email. From DWUTKA at marlow.com Tue Mar 30 09:53:52 2004 From: DWUTKA at marlow.com (DWUTKA at marlow.com) Date: Tue, 30 Mar 2004 09:53:52 -0600 Subject: [AccessD] Lookup Fields in Table Design Message-ID: <2F8793082E00D4119A1700B0D0216BF802227A18@main2.marlow.com> Hey John, another sayer! (or are we shirts or skins?). Arthur, that is exactly why I use them too. To me, the lookup field is just as important (if needed) as commenting the fields. It's a more precise definition then you can cram into the description field, at that. Drew -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Arthur Fuller Sent: Monday, March 29, 2004 9:42 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: [AccessD] Lookup Fields in Table Design I am one of those asinine developers that defines as much as possible at the table level, including lookups. In an MDB, for example, I might define the CustomerID column as a combo-box whose source is a query called Customers_SelectByCompanyName, with a hidden column 0 and a visible column 1. Even if it does cost me a couple of milliseconds at run-time (which is arguable), I'll still do it, because of the tremendous development-time gains. Given the absence of "domains" in Access (a domain in this sense is a meta-field, i.e. a thoroughly defined field which is not tied to a table, which can then be copied to any given table in the app), what I typically do is create a pseudo-table containing all these thoroughly-defined field definitions. Then as I create the actual tables, I copy the fields of interest from the pseudo-table to the given actual table, thus "inheriting" the complete fieldspec, including format, mask, prompt, combo-box etc. Why do I invest so much time at the table level? Very simple. Once that is done, even if I do nothing more than create an autoForm or query or report, I inherit all these field specifications. I do it this way in MDBs because most of the data-architecture tools don't provide full support for file-level databases. Given a job in SQL Server, though, I invest this effort in the definition of domains etc., and then manufacture all the tables from the domains, postponing this step until I am satisfied with the domain specs. The great thing about such (admittedly pricey) tools is that you can revise the domain definitions and they automatically propagate to all instances of the domains in all the tables. That's what I love about such tools! Arthur -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of DWUTKA at marlow.com Sent: Monday, March 29, 2004 7:49 AM To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: RE: [AccessD] Lookup Fields in Table Design Doesn't intimidate me. I have the utmost respect for the moderators though, because they have to be impartial. Kind of like being a cop. Sometimes you have to be forceful, when you can absolutely sympathize with the people you are trying to help. I just hope that people starting out in Access read the thread, and realize that not everything that is 'recommended' about Access is based on fact. That their goal in their development career should be to learn everything that they can with the development tool of their choice, and not just take things at face value. Drew -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Susan Harkins Sent: Sunday, March 28, 2004 12:58 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: [AccessD] Lookup Fields in Table Design Why do men get so grouchy in their old age? Andy and William -- if you don't want to read the thread, can you not ignore it? Are you trying to tell us that because you find no value in the discussion, that the discussion is therefore valueless? I'm sure that's not really what you mean to say. Ignore the discussion if you're not getting anything out of it. We all ignore threads all the time. Let them hash it out. I'm pretty much done with the thread myself, but this is the one thing that some of you do that really annoys me. Leave the thread be. If it's gets off topic, then kill it. FWIW, you probably have pretty much killed it with your caustic remarks -- I wish you guys wouldn't do that. It intimidates people. Susan H. ...ah ...welcome to Florida Andy ...we may not be able to count votes but, just like the butterfly ballot, we sure as hell know when something has been beat to death a hundred times over! :)))))) -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From cfoust at infostatsystems.com Tue Mar 30 10:49:22 2004 From: cfoust at infostatsystems.com (Charlotte Foust) Date: Tue, 30 Mar 2004 08:49:22 -0800 Subject: [AccessD] Lookup Fields in Table Design Message-ID: ROTFL Could we get pennants made up for each side? Charlotte Foust -----Original Message----- From: MartyConnelly [mailto:martyconnelly at shaw.ca] Sent: Monday, March 29, 2004 5:45 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Lookup Fields in Table Design I was hoping for "Bounders" and "Cads" John Bartow wrote: >I guess maybe "nay-sayers" had a negative connotation to it. > >Next time I think I'll call the opposing views "Shirts" and "Skins". >Maybe we'll get more people participating :o) > >-----Original Message----- >From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com >[mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of >DWUTKA at marlow.com >Sent: Monday, March 29, 2004 3:51 PM >To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com >Subject: RE: [AccessD] Lookup Fields in Table Design > > >Thank you. I've had my opinion changed on this list before too. And I >always learn something new in here. But I was wondering if I was >starting to lose it, because I hadn't seen any solid 'evidence' from >the nay-sayers. That's all I was asking for. Reproducable results. It >was very easy for me to reproduce the Date Table 'examples', and see >that they are definitely more efficient then using calculations in a >query, for sorting and searching. > >Just haven't seen anything like that with the Lookup topic. Which >isn't surprising though. It is something that has been mystified in >the 'relational database' world. It's in books, on the web, and thus >is defended simply by pointing to other references. Those are the >hardest walls to topple. It's a paradigm. > >Drew > >-----Original Message----- >From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com >[mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of John Bartow >Sent: Monday, March 29, 2004 3:16 PM >To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving >Subject: RE: [AccessD] Lookup Fields in Table Design > > >I started the thread decidely not using lookup properties for the past >5 years because of the overwhelming attitude among developers that it >shouldn't be used. (IIRC that's when I first read Dev's "10 >Commandments".) > >I had no "side" in this debate other than pointing out weaknesses I saw >in specific arguments (and being "cutesy" at times) Rarely is someone >go to fully switch "sides" in a debate. (So I don't expect everyone to >agree with >me.) I believe that, based on this thread, the people who argued that it is >OK to use lookup properties have won the day. > >Unless someone comes up with a solid reason why it should never be used >I will not hesitate to use it again when the situation warrants. > >I challenge anyone to use facts to convince me otherwise. In fact I >would very much appreciate it. And I'll buy you a few if you can do so! > >John "always open to the facts" Bartow > > >-----Original Message----- >From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com >[mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Charlotte >Foust >Sent: Monday, March 29, 2004 2:44 PM >To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving >Subject: RE: [AccessD] Lookup Fields in Table Design > > >Forget it. You insist that your opinion carried the day. Go right >ahead and believe it, but don't expect everyone else to agree. > >Charlotte Foust > > >-- >_______________________________________________ >AccessD mailing list >AccessD at databaseadvisors.com >http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd >Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com >-- >_______________________________________________ >AccessD mailing list >AccessD at databaseadvisors.com >http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd >Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > > -- Marty Connelly Victoria, B.C. Canada -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From mwp.reid at qub.ac.uk Tue Mar 30 11:16:12 2004 From: mwp.reid at qub.ac.uk (Martin Reid) Date: Tue, 30 Mar 2004 18:16:12 +0100 Subject: [AccessD] SQL Repost References: <000301c411aa$1d158a80$6401a8c0@COA3><40638618.8080805@shaw.ca><1626260251.20040326103055@cactus.dk><000901c4159b$2a3a1420$9111758f@aine><40685C8E.8010804@shaw.ca><003101c415c6$9b04d6b0$1b02a8c0@MARTINREID><1389061209.20040330112532@cactus.dk><001b01c4166a$a5ec0770$9111758f@aine> <4232119245.20040330174950@cactus.dk> Message-ID: <002d01c4167a$ba5636d0$1b02a8c0@MARTINREID> All done all working now. Best Martin ----- Original Message ----- From: "Gustav Brock" To: "Access Developers discussion and problem solving" Sent: Tuesday, March 30, 2004 4:49 PM Subject: Re: [AccessD] SQL Repost > Hi Martin > > Can't you just wrap those expressions in Nz()? > > /gustav > > > > Sorry I deleted the origional reply > > > Heres the outline > > > TM= A+B+C1+ (Higher of D1 or D2) > > > TMD= A+B+C1+ (higher of (C1+D1) or C2+D2) > > > As before it must be SQL and account for nulls. The IIF works but I am > > missing something in the syntax re the null values. > > > Apologies to gustave as I deleted his email. > > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > From sgeller at cce.umn.edu Tue Mar 30 11:27:38 2004 From: sgeller at cce.umn.edu (Susan Geller) Date: Tue, 30 Mar 2004 11:27:38 -0600 Subject: [AccessD] Default Printer for Access Report Message-ID: I have a reporting tool built in Access (2002) that is essentially a wizard where users pick a report, set criteria and then see their output. There are nearly 100 reports in the app. When a user choses to print a report, the default printer that comes up in the print dialog box is the default printer set on their machine, EXCEPT for one of the reports. On that one report only, the default printer that comes up in the dialogue box is a different printer. All users get this different printer. I did not write any code or make any settings to indicate printer choice. What could be happening? How can I get this one report to print to the user's default printer? Note: The only way that users can print a report is with a toolbar PRINT button that I brings up the dialogue box. There is no file menu from the reports and there is no button with a printer icon that sends reports straight to the printer. --Susan Susan B. Geller Office of Information Systems College of Continuing Education University of Minnesota 306 Wesbrook Hall 77 Pleasant Street SE Minneapolis, MN 55455 Phone: 612-626-4785 Fax: 612-625-2568 From martyconnelly at shaw.ca Tue Mar 30 11:31:43 2004 From: martyconnelly at shaw.ca (MartyConnelly) Date: Tue, 30 Mar 2004 09:31:43 -0800 Subject: [AccessD] E-Mailing a Report References: <05EBB8A3BEB95B4F8216BE4EF486077802AA3E72@srciml1.ds.doc.state.or.us> Message-ID: <4069AEFF.9020403@shaw.ca> This might not be the only way, have a look through http://www.slipstick.com site too It uses LDAP http://www.msexchange.org/tutorials/Creating_a_list_of_Users_and_their_email_addresses_in_Exchange_2000.html http://www.msexchange.org/tutorials/Creating_a_list_of_Users_and_their_email_addresses_in_Exchange_2000_2.html Gowey Mike W wrote: > >Hi Everyone, > >I'm sure this is probably a basic question but I can't seem to think of >it today. Is there a way for me to allow a user to select the e-mail >address that they want to send a report to using the global list from >our Exchange server?? > >Thanks in advance for any help :-) > >Mike Gowey, MCSA, A+,ACE >Team Leader - SRCI >Information Systems & Services Division >Technical Support Analyst > > > > -- Marty Connelly Victoria, B.C. Canada From mikedorism at adelphia.net Tue Mar 30 12:02:47 2004 From: mikedorism at adelphia.net (Mike & Doris Manning) Date: Tue, 30 Mar 2004 13:02:47 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Default Printer for Access Report In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <000001c41681$35704940$a1194244@hargrove.internal> Open that report in design view and then click on "File" and choose "Page Setup". It is possible it get set accidentally when the report was designed. Doris Manning Database Administrator Hargrove Inc. www.hargroveinc.com -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Susan Geller Sent: Tuesday, March 30, 2004 12:28 PM To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: [AccessD] Default Printer for Access Report I have a reporting tool built in Access (2002) that is essentially a wizard where users pick a report, set criteria and then see their output. There are nearly 100 reports in the app. When a user choses to print a report, the default printer that comes up in the print dialog box is the default printer set on their machine, EXCEPT for one of the reports. On that one report only, the default printer that comes up in the dialogue box is a different printer. All users get this different printer. I did not write any code or make any settings to indicate printer choice. What could be happening? How can I get this one report to print to the user's default printer? Note: The only way that users can print a report is with a toolbar PRINT button that I brings up the dialogue box. There is no file menu from the reports and there is no button with a printer icon that sends reports straight to the printer. --Susan Susan B. Geller Office of Information Systems College of Continuing Education University of Minnesota 306 Wesbrook Hall 77 Pleasant Street SE Minneapolis, MN 55455 Phone: 612-626-4785 Fax: 612-625-2568 -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From john at winhaven.net Tue Mar 30 12:09:42 2004 From: john at winhaven.net (John Bartow) Date: Tue, 30 Mar 2004 12:09:42 -0600 Subject: [AccessD] Lookup Fields in Table Design In-Reply-To: <2424920353.20040330154952@cactus.dk> Message-ID: Well Susan, At least the vast majority of the responses were on topic. I've already gotten a hundred plus emails from a question I asked where 90% of the responses had nothing to do with the original subject line! -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Gustav Brock Sent: Tuesday, March 30, 2004 7:50 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Lookup Fields in Table Design Nice try, Susan, but didn't exactly you redirect and fire this 100+ thread? I don't know how you manage to do it but it goes without saying that you did it again! /gustav > OK, I relinquish my position as main troublemaker. Obviously, I have > been outmaneuvered. :) > Susan H. --- >> From: Susan Harkins [mailto:ssharkins at bellsouth.net] >> Sent: Thursday, March 25, 2004 10:03 AM >> To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' >> Subject: RE: [AccessD] Framework Discussion - set up question >> Here we goooooooooooooooooooo! ;) -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From john at winhaven.net Tue Mar 30 12:09:45 2004 From: john at winhaven.net (John Bartow) Date: Tue, 30 Mar 2004 12:09:45 -0600 Subject: [AccessD] Lookup Fields in Table Design In-Reply-To: <2F8793082E00D4119A1700B0D0216BF802227A18@main2.marlow.com> Message-ID: I'm still digesting Ken last post and Arthur's post. We'll be shirts and skins next time :o) John -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of DWUTKA at marlow.com Sent: Tuesday, March 30, 2004 9:54 AM To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: RE: [AccessD] Lookup Fields in Table Design Hey John, another sayer! (or are we shirts or skins?). Arthur, that is exactly why I use them too. To me, the lookup field is just as important (if needed) as commenting the fields. It's a more precise definition then you can cram into the description field, at that. Drew -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Arthur Fuller Sent: Monday, March 29, 2004 9:42 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: [AccessD] Lookup Fields in Table Design I am one of those asinine developers that defines as much as possible at the table level, including lookups. In an MDB, for example, I might define the CustomerID column as a combo-box whose source is a query called Customers_SelectByCompanyName, with a hidden column 0 and a visible column 1. Even if it does cost me a couple of milliseconds at run-time (which is arguable), I'll still do it, because of the tremendous development-time gains. Given the absence of "domains" in Access (a domain in this sense is a meta-field, i.e. a thoroughly defined field which is not tied to a table, which can then be copied to any given table in the app), what I typically do is create a pseudo-table containing all these thoroughly-defined field definitions. Then as I create the actual tables, I copy the fields of interest from the pseudo-table to the given actual table, thus "inheriting" the complete fieldspec, including format, mask, prompt, combo-box etc. Why do I invest so much time at the table level? Very simple. Once that is done, even if I do nothing more than create an autoForm or query or report, I inherit all these field specifications. I do it this way in MDBs because most of the data-architecture tools don't provide full support for file-level databases. Given a job in SQL Server, though, I invest this effort in the definition of domains etc., and then manufacture all the tables from the domains, postponing this step until I am satisfied with the domain specs. The great thing about such (admittedly pricey) tools is that you can revise the domain definitions and they automatically propagate to all instances of the domains in all the tables. That's what I love about such tools! Arthur -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of DWUTKA at marlow.com Sent: Monday, March 29, 2004 7:49 AM To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: RE: [AccessD] Lookup Fields in Table Design Doesn't intimidate me. I have the utmost respect for the moderators though, because they have to be impartial. Kind of like being a cop. Sometimes you have to be forceful, when you can absolutely sympathize with the people you are trying to help. I just hope that people starting out in Access read the thread, and realize that not everything that is 'recommended' about Access is based on fact. That their goal in their development career should be to learn everything that they can with the development tool of their choice, and not just take things at face value. Drew -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Susan Harkins Sent: Sunday, March 28, 2004 12:58 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: [AccessD] Lookup Fields in Table Design Why do men get so grouchy in their old age? Andy and William -- if you don't want to read the thread, can you not ignore it? Are you trying to tell us that because you find no value in the discussion, that the discussion is therefore valueless? I'm sure that's not really what you mean to say. Ignore the discussion if you're not getting anything out of it. We all ignore threads all the time. Let them hash it out. I'm pretty much done with the thread myself, but this is the one thing that some of you do that really annoys me. Leave the thread be. If it's gets off topic, then kill it. FWIW, you probably have pretty much killed it with your caustic remarks -- I wish you guys wouldn't do that. It intimidates people. Susan H. ...ah ...welcome to Florida Andy ...we may not be able to count votes but, just like the butterfly ballot, we sure as hell know when something has been beat to death a hundred times over! :)))))) -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From john at winhaven.net Tue Mar 30 12:09:50 2004 From: john at winhaven.net (John Bartow) Date: Tue, 30 Mar 2004 12:09:50 -0600 Subject: [AccessD] Lookup Fields in Table Design In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Ok, I was just going to avoid sounding stupid here but what the heck... What are Cads? John -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Charlotte Foust Sent: Tuesday, March 30, 2004 10:49 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] Lookup Fields in Table Design ROTFL Could we get pennants made up for each side? Charlotte Foust -----Original Message----- From: MartyConnelly [mailto:martyconnelly at shaw.ca] Sent: Monday, March 29, 2004 5:45 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Lookup Fields in Table Design I was hoping for "Bounders" and "Cads" John Bartow wrote: >I guess maybe "nay-sayers" had a negative connotation to it. > >Next time I think I'll call the opposing views "Shirts" and "Skins". >Maybe we'll get more people participating :o) > >-----Original Message----- >From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com >[mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of >DWUTKA at marlow.com >Sent: Monday, March 29, 2004 3:51 PM >To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com >Subject: RE: [AccessD] Lookup Fields in Table Design > > >Thank you. I've had my opinion changed on this list before too. And I >always learn something new in here. But I was wondering if I was >starting to lose it, because I hadn't seen any solid 'evidence' from >the nay-sayers. That's all I was asking for. Reproducable results. It >was very easy for me to reproduce the Date Table 'examples', and see >that they are definitely more efficient then using calculations in a >query, for sorting and searching. > >Just haven't seen anything like that with the Lookup topic. Which >isn't surprising though. It is something that has been mystified in >the 'relational database' world. It's in books, on the web, and thus >is defended simply by pointing to other references. Those are the >hardest walls to topple. It's a paradigm. > >Drew > >-----Original Message----- >From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com >[mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of John Bartow >Sent: Monday, March 29, 2004 3:16 PM >To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving >Subject: RE: [AccessD] Lookup Fields in Table Design > > >I started the thread decidely not using lookup properties for the past >5 years because of the overwhelming attitude among developers that it >shouldn't be used. (IIRC that's when I first read Dev's "10 >Commandments".) > >I had no "side" in this debate other than pointing out weaknesses I saw >in specific arguments (and being "cutesy" at times) Rarely is someone >go to fully switch "sides" in a debate. (So I don't expect everyone to >agree with >me.) I believe that, based on this thread, the people who argued that it is >OK to use lookup properties have won the day. > >Unless someone comes up with a solid reason why it should never be used >I will not hesitate to use it again when the situation warrants. > >I challenge anyone to use facts to convince me otherwise. In fact I >would very much appreciate it. And I'll buy you a few if you can do so! > >John "always open to the facts" Bartow > > >-----Original Message----- >From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com >[mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Charlotte >Foust >Sent: Monday, March 29, 2004 2:44 PM >To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving >Subject: RE: [AccessD] Lookup Fields in Table Design > > >Forget it. You insist that your opinion carried the day. Go right >ahead and believe it, but don't expect everyone else to agree. > >Charlotte Foust > > >-- >_______________________________________________ >AccessD mailing list >AccessD at databaseadvisors.com >http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd >Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com >-- >_______________________________________________ >AccessD mailing list >AccessD at databaseadvisors.com >http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd >Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > > -- Marty Connelly Victoria, B.C. Canada -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From ssharkins at bellsouth.net Tue Mar 30 12:36:35 2004 From: ssharkins at bellsouth.net (Susan Harkins) Date: Tue, 30 Mar 2004 13:36:35 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Lookup Fields in Table Design In-Reply-To: <14931601790.20040330174113@cactus.dk> Message-ID: <20040330183636.WVRQ1715.imf16aec.mail.bellsouth.net@SUSANONE> Whatever did you do to those poor little girls?????????? ;) Susan H. Hi Susan It turns better and better! That comment reminds me of some experiences in the school yard where someone (mostly nice little girls) tried to wash their hands after something "just happened" ... From Lambert.Heenan at AIG.com Tue Mar 30 12:36:41 2004 From: Lambert.Heenan at AIG.com (Heenan, Lambert) Date: Tue, 30 Mar 2004 13:36:41 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Lookup Fields in Table Design Message-ID: <8B98F8EA48F8BA47A2F24E0D0AF40CF407AD8053@xlivmbx12.aig.com> A cad is someone you would not wish your daughter to marry, particularly if you are from the pink gin swilling, monocle wearing 1920's era upper class society, much written about by the like of P.G. Woodhouse and Dorothy L Sayer. cad (k?d) noun An unprincipled, ungentlemanly man. Lambert > -----Original Message----- > From: John Bartow [SMTP:john at winhaven.net] > Sent: Tuesday, March 30, 2004 1:10 PM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: RE: [AccessD] Lookup Fields in Table Design > > Ok, I was just going to avoid sounding stupid here but what the heck... > > What are Cads? > > John > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Charlotte > Foust > Sent: Tuesday, March 30, 2004 10:49 AM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: RE: [AccessD] Lookup Fields in Table Design > > > ROTFL > > Could we get pennants made up for each side? > > Charlotte Foust > > -----Original Message----- > From: MartyConnelly [mailto:martyconnelly at shaw.ca] > Sent: Monday, March 29, 2004 5:45 PM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: Re: [AccessD] Lookup Fields in Table Design > > > I was hoping for "Bounders" and "Cads" > > John Bartow wrote: > > >I guess maybe "nay-sayers" had a negative connotation to it. > > > >Next time I think I'll call the opposing views "Shirts" and "Skins". > >Maybe we'll get more people participating :o) > > > >-----Original Message----- > >From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > >[mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of > >DWUTKA at marlow.com > >Sent: Monday, March 29, 2004 3:51 PM > >To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com > >Subject: RE: [AccessD] Lookup Fields in Table Design > > > > > >Thank you. I've had my opinion changed on this list before too. And I > > >always learn something new in here. But I was wondering if I was > >starting to lose it, because I hadn't seen any solid 'evidence' from > >the nay-sayers. That's all I was asking for. Reproducable results. It > > >was very easy for me to reproduce the Date Table 'examples', and see > >that they are definitely more efficient then using calculations in a > >query, for sorting and searching. > > > >Just haven't seen anything like that with the Lookup topic. Which > >isn't surprising though. It is something that has been mystified in > >the 'relational database' world. It's in books, on the web, and thus > >is defended simply by pointing to other references. Those are the > >hardest walls to topple. It's a paradigm. > > > >Drew > > > >-----Original Message----- > >From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > >[mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of John Bartow > >Sent: Monday, March 29, 2004 3:16 PM > >To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > >Subject: RE: [AccessD] Lookup Fields in Table Design > > > > > >I started the thread decidely not using lookup properties for the past > >5 years because of the overwhelming attitude among developers that it > >shouldn't be used. (IIRC that's when I first read Dev's "10 > >Commandments".) > > > >I had no "side" in this debate other than pointing out weaknesses I saw > > >in specific arguments (and being "cutesy" at times) Rarely is someone > >go to fully switch "sides" in a debate. (So I don't expect everyone to > >agree with > >me.) I believe that, based on this thread, the people who argued that > it is > >OK to use lookup properties have won the day. > > > >Unless someone comes up with a solid reason why it should never be used > > >I will not hesitate to use it again when the situation warrants. > > > >I challenge anyone to use facts to convince me otherwise. In fact I > >would very much appreciate it. And I'll buy you a few if you can do so! > > > >John "always open to the facts" Bartow > > > > > >-----Original Message----- > >From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > >[mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Charlotte > >Foust > >Sent: Monday, March 29, 2004 2:44 PM > >To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > >Subject: RE: [AccessD] Lookup Fields in Table Design > > > > > >Forget it. You insist that your opinion carried the day. Go right > >ahead and believe it, but don't expect everyone else to agree. > > > >Charlotte Foust > > > > > >-- > >_______________________________________________ > >AccessD mailing list > >AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > >http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > >Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > >-- > >_______________________________________________ > >AccessD mailing list > >AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > >http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > >Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > > > > > > > > > -- > Marty Connelly > Victoria, B.C. > Canada > > > > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From cfoust at infostatsystems.com Tue Mar 30 12:58:23 2004 From: cfoust at infostatsystems.com (Charlotte Foust) Date: Tue, 30 Mar 2004 10:58:23 -0800 Subject: [AccessD] Lookup Fields in Table Design Message-ID: Very similar to bounders, which has nothing to do with forms. Charlotte Foust -----Original Message----- From: John Bartow [mailto:john at winhaven.net] Sent: Tuesday, March 30, 2004 10:10 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] Lookup Fields in Table Design Ok, I was just going to avoid sounding stupid here but what the heck... What are Cads? John -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Charlotte Foust Sent: Tuesday, March 30, 2004 10:49 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] Lookup Fields in Table Design ROTFL Could we get pennants made up for each side? Charlotte Foust -----Original Message----- From: MartyConnelly [mailto:martyconnelly at shaw.ca] Sent: Monday, March 29, 2004 5:45 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Lookup Fields in Table Design I was hoping for "Bounders" and "Cads" John Bartow wrote: >I guess maybe "nay-sayers" had a negative connotation to it. > >Next time I think I'll call the opposing views "Shirts" and "Skins". >Maybe we'll get more people participating :o) > >-----Original Message----- >From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com >[mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of >DWUTKA at marlow.com >Sent: Monday, March 29, 2004 3:51 PM >To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com >Subject: RE: [AccessD] Lookup Fields in Table Design > > >Thank you. I've had my opinion changed on this list before too. And I >always learn something new in here. But I was wondering if I was >starting to lose it, because I hadn't seen any solid 'evidence' from >the nay-sayers. That's all I was asking for. Reproducable results. It >was very easy for me to reproduce the Date Table 'examples', and see >that they are definitely more efficient then using calculations in a >query, for sorting and searching. > >Just haven't seen anything like that with the Lookup topic. Which >isn't surprising though. It is something that has been mystified in >the 'relational database' world. It's in books, on the web, and thus >is defended simply by pointing to other references. Those are the >hardest walls to topple. It's a paradigm. > >Drew > >-----Original Message----- >From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com >[mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of John Bartow >Sent: Monday, March 29, 2004 3:16 PM >To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving >Subject: RE: [AccessD] Lookup Fields in Table Design > > >I started the thread decidely not using lookup properties for the past >5 years because of the overwhelming attitude among developers that it >shouldn't be used. (IIRC that's when I first read Dev's "10 >Commandments".) > >I had no "side" in this debate other than pointing out weaknesses I saw >in specific arguments (and being "cutesy" at times) Rarely is someone >go to fully switch "sides" in a debate. (So I don't expect everyone to >agree with >me.) I believe that, based on this thread, the people who argued that it is >OK to use lookup properties have won the day. > >Unless someone comes up with a solid reason why it should never be used >I will not hesitate to use it again when the situation warrants. > >I challenge anyone to use facts to convince me otherwise. In fact I >would very much appreciate it. And I'll buy you a few if you can do so! > >John "always open to the facts" Bartow > > >-----Original Message----- >From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com >[mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Charlotte >Foust >Sent: Monday, March 29, 2004 2:44 PM >To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving >Subject: RE: [AccessD] Lookup Fields in Table Design > > >Forget it. You insist that your opinion carried the day. Go right >ahead and believe it, but don't expect everyone else to agree. > >Charlotte Foust > > >-- >_______________________________________________ >AccessD mailing list >AccessD at databaseadvisors.com >http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd >Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com >-- >_______________________________________________ >AccessD mailing list >AccessD at databaseadvisors.com >http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd >Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > > -- Marty Connelly Victoria, B.C. Canada -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From john at winhaven.net Tue Mar 30 13:06:13 2004 From: john at winhaven.net (John Bartow) Date: Tue, 30 Mar 2004 13:06:13 -0600 Subject: [AccessD] Lookup Fields in Table Design In-Reply-To: <8B98F8EA48F8BA47A2F24E0D0AF40CF407AD8053@xlivmbx12.aig.com> Message-ID: Well, in that case I think I misunderstood "bounders" also - what are bounders? -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Heenan, Lambert Sent: Tuesday, March 30, 2004 12:37 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: [AccessD] Lookup Fields in Table Design A cad is someone you would not wish your daughter to marry, particularly if you are from the pink gin swilling, monocle wearing 1920's era upper class society, much written about by the like of P.G. Woodhouse and Dorothy L Sayer. cad (k?d) noun An unprincipled, ungentlemanly man. Lambert > -----Original Message----- > From: John Bartow [SMTP:john at winhaven.net] > Sent: Tuesday, March 30, 2004 1:10 PM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: RE: [AccessD] Lookup Fields in Table Design > > Ok, I was just going to avoid sounding stupid here but what the heck... > > What are Cads? > > John > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Charlotte > Foust > Sent: Tuesday, March 30, 2004 10:49 AM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: RE: [AccessD] Lookup Fields in Table Design > > > ROTFL > > Could we get pennants made up for each side? > > Charlotte Foust > > -----Original Message----- > From: MartyConnelly [mailto:martyconnelly at shaw.ca] > Sent: Monday, March 29, 2004 5:45 PM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: Re: [AccessD] Lookup Fields in Table Design > > > I was hoping for "Bounders" and "Cads" > > John Bartow wrote: > > >I guess maybe "nay-sayers" had a negative connotation to it. > > > >Next time I think I'll call the opposing views "Shirts" and "Skins". > >Maybe we'll get more people participating :o) > > > >-----Original Message----- > >From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > >[mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of > >DWUTKA at marlow.com > >Sent: Monday, March 29, 2004 3:51 PM > >To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com > >Subject: RE: [AccessD] Lookup Fields in Table Design > > > > > >Thank you. I've had my opinion changed on this list before too. And I > > >always learn something new in here. But I was wondering if I was > >starting to lose it, because I hadn't seen any solid 'evidence' from > >the nay-sayers. That's all I was asking for. Reproducable results. It > > >was very easy for me to reproduce the Date Table 'examples', and see > >that they are definitely more efficient then using calculations in a > >query, for sorting and searching. > > > >Just haven't seen anything like that with the Lookup topic. Which > >isn't surprising though. It is something that has been mystified in > >the 'relational database' world. It's in books, on the web, and thus > >is defended simply by pointing to other references. Those are the > >hardest walls to topple. It's a paradigm. > > > >Drew > > > >-----Original Message----- > >From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > >[mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of John Bartow > >Sent: Monday, March 29, 2004 3:16 PM > >To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > >Subject: RE: [AccessD] Lookup Fields in Table Design > > > > > >I started the thread decidely not using lookup properties for the past > >5 years because of the overwhelming attitude among developers that it > >shouldn't be used. (IIRC that's when I first read Dev's "10 > >Commandments".) > > > >I had no "side" in this debate other than pointing out weaknesses I saw > > >in specific arguments (and being "cutesy" at times) Rarely is someone > >go to fully switch "sides" in a debate. (So I don't expect everyone to > >agree with > >me.) I believe that, based on this thread, the people who argued that > it is > >OK to use lookup properties have won the day. > > > >Unless someone comes up with a solid reason why it should never be used > > >I will not hesitate to use it again when the situation warrants. > > > >I challenge anyone to use facts to convince me otherwise. In fact I > >would very much appreciate it. And I'll buy you a few if you can do so! > > > >John "always open to the facts" Bartow > > > > > >-----Original Message----- > >From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > >[mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Charlotte > >Foust > >Sent: Monday, March 29, 2004 2:44 PM > >To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > >Subject: RE: [AccessD] Lookup Fields in Table Design > > > > > >Forget it. You insist that your opinion carried the day. Go right > >ahead and believe it, but don't expect everyone else to agree. > > > >Charlotte Foust > > > > > >-- > >_______________________________________________ > >AccessD mailing list > >AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > >http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > >Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > >-- > >_______________________________________________ > >AccessD mailing list > >AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > >http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > >Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > > > > > > > > > -- > Marty Connelly > Victoria, B.C. > Canada > > > > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From andy at minstersystems.co.uk Tue Mar 30 13:12:59 2004 From: andy at minstersystems.co.uk (Andy Lacey) Date: Tue, 30 Mar 2004 20:12:59 +0100 Subject: [AccessD] OT: A survey from somebody not as well-connected as JC In-Reply-To: <00ae01c415e2$cb59d1f0$6101a8c0@dejpolsys> Message-ID: <000101c4168b$04289450$b274d0d5@minster33c3r25> I could write lots, or I could just say "William said it for me", which is not just easier but also true. Agree with every word of the sentiment, if not the detail on Netware etc. -- Andy Lacey http://www.minstersystems.co.uk > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of > William Hindman > Sent: 30 March 2004 00:09 > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: Re: [AccessD] OT: A survey from somebody not as > well-connected as JC > > > ...don't take this the wrong way Steve but some of the > questions you ask point away from the answers you want imnsho > ...Access is a tool for me ...I don't get clients ...or keep > them ...because I use Access ...or any other tool ...I get > and keep clients because I solve their problems ...99% could > care less what I use as long as it works and fits their budget. > > ...of course I'm not trying to get rich like Rocky nor invent > a new wheel like JC ...I do what it takes to make a client > happy ...that, or I colbyize them ...I got into the SBS gig > because a client was getting a raw deal from a Netware house > and I agreed to fix his network if he'd invest the money in > what I recommended ...he agreed and I bought a couple books > on SBS and found a good list and he's happy and passed me on > to a couple others and so on ...same with websites which I've > now taken up for profit ...client was getting a raw deal and > asked my advice ...so I bought a couple of books and found a > good list and its starting to look pretty nice and he wants > loads more and there is another waiting with baited breath > ...if I want the work > :) > > ...but I'm just me and don't have any intention of ever > working hard again ...so much of this may not apply to you > ...but I'd think that if you focused a lot more on what the > client needs rather than what gadget you're fixing to use, > you might solve both of your problems :) > > ...just my two cents of course ...others may well see it > different and I won't mind at all :) > > William Hindman > ipsedixitism: something is true because I myself have said it > is true ...the philosophy of Noam Chomsky :) > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Steven W. Erbach" > To: "Access Developers discussion and problem solving" > > Sent: Monday, March 29, 2004 11:16 AM > Subject: [AccessD] OT: A survey from somebody not as > well-connected as JC > > > > Dear Group, > > > > This is for the independent developers only. If you work > for a company > > and > you'd like to take the survey, just let me know that you're > not an independent developer when you reply. > > > > I'm curious about what you independent developers have had > to learn to > keep up with the changing marketplace. > > > > 1) If you've managed to maintain a significant clientele by > developing > Access applications, what have you done to sharpen your > skills to make you more attractive as the developer of choice > in a competitive field? That is, have you developed a > framework like JC, or have you gone more towards developing > front ends for SQL back ends like Arthur? > > > > 2) If you've moved away from Access development as your > primary source > > of > income, what other platforms have you learned to make a > living? Do you now do mostly .NET development, ASP, SQL > Server, PHP, what? > > > > 3) If you're doing .NET development, what kind of things are you > > doing? > Has it lived up to the hype? Last year about this time I was > searching the want ads for positions before I decided to > stick with my own business. I was amused by the ads that > profiled the "ideal" candidate as one who had deep .NET > experience. The stinking product had only officially been on > the market for one whole year with another year in beta > before that. Sheesh! Have you seen any real live .NET > implementations that are worth bragging about...or have you > created any? > > > > In short, what have you had to do to make yourself useful as an > independent developer? I know that William works quite a bit > with SBS and LANs. Have any of you developed proficiency with > cabling and routers and such to increase your marketability? > > > > Do you do any security consulting, say? Do you build > custom-order PCs? > > Do > you do LAN management, e-mail server management and setup, > web site development? > > > > One final thing: Years ago when I started I took advantage of the > > swing of > the pendulum that put PC power in users' hands. That is, the > PC was a great analysis tool for mainframe data. Lotus 1-2-3, > dBASE III, Paradox, etc., were the tools that enabled users > and departments to fiddle with the data without having to > wait for the IT department to get around to their little > pissant application requests. > > > > Now the pendulum has swung the other way. Security concerns and > scalability and distributed networks / VPNs and web-based > database applications have all made the pendulum swing back > towards centralized control...and the IT guys are loving it. > Or am I reading it wrong? What do you think? > > > > Regards, > > > > Steve Erbach > > Scientific Marketing > > Neenah, WI > > 920-969-0504 > > > > Security and Virus information: http://www.swerbach.com/security > > > > -- > > _______________________________________________ > > AccessD mailing list > > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > From andy at minstersystems.co.uk Tue Mar 30 13:17:33 2004 From: andy at minstersystems.co.uk (Andy Lacey) Date: Tue, 30 Mar 2004 20:17:33 +0100 Subject: [AccessD] OT: A survey from somebody not as well-connected as JC In-Reply-To: <20040329211612.710613534.serbach@new.rr.com> Message-ID: <000401c4168b$a7711dd0$b274d0d5@minster33c3r25> I envy Rocky (sort of) but won't be trying to emulate him. Been there, tried that, and failed. Problem with the product thing is that you have to metamorphose from developer into marketer, and I couldn't. Not my thing at all. Plus IME it involves sinking money into advertising, mailing, brochures, websites nd so on. You have to be prepared to risk big outlay against no guarantee of return. Done that 2 or 3 times to great cost and no great return. Won't be doing it again. -- Andy Lacey http://www.minstersystems.co.uk > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of > Steven W. Erbach > Sent: 30 March 2004 04:16 > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: Re: [AccessD] OT: A survey from somebody not as > well-connected as JC > > > William, > > >> ...don't take this the wrong way << > > I won't. I appreciate your point of view. I have gotten > caught up in the tools as if owning the right brand of socket > wrench will guarantee me a living. > > But I hear you on the client-centered approach. I've worked > on lots of things that were outside of my skill-set comfort zone. > > I talked with a friend recently about my business and he > asked if there was anything I specialized in. I told him no; > my business is producing custom solutions to solve customer > problems. He recommended a product-centered approach, like > what Rocky is aiming for. I have a long-term care facility > marketing and donations program I wrote that might fill the > bill. We'll see. > > >> ...but I'm just me and don't have any intention of ever > working hard > >> again << > > Not really an option for me as we're having some tough times > financially. I can dig the varietal nature of your work, > though. Thanks. > > Regards, > > Steve Erbach > Scientific Marketing > Neenah, WI > > "You must be an intellectual. No normal person would say a > thing like that." - George Orwell > > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/a> ccessd > Website: > http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > From andy at minstersystems.co.uk Tue Mar 30 13:18:17 2004 From: andy at minstersystems.co.uk (Andy Lacey) Date: Tue, 30 Mar 2004 20:18:17 +0100 Subject: [AccessD] Lookup Fields in Table Design In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <000b01c4168b$c1a0c2a0$b274d0d5@minster33c3r25> 1) cads 2) opposite of unbounders -- Andy Lacey http://www.minstersystems.co.uk > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of John Bartow > Sent: 30 March 2004 20:06 > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: RE: [AccessD] Lookup Fields in Table Design > > > Well, in that case I think I misunderstood "bounders" also - > what are bounders? > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of > Heenan, Lambert > Sent: Tuesday, March 30, 2004 12:37 PM > To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' > Subject: RE: [AccessD] Lookup Fields in Table Design > > > A cad is someone you would not wish your daughter to marry, > particularly if you are from the pink gin swilling, monocle > wearing 1920's era upper class society, much written about by > the like of P.G. Woodhouse and Dorothy L Sayer. > > cad (k?d) noun > An unprincipled, ungentlemanly man. > > Lambert > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: John Bartow [SMTP:john at winhaven.net] > > Sent: Tuesday, March 30, 2004 1:10 PM > > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > > Subject: RE: [AccessD] Lookup Fields in Table Design > > > > Ok, I was just going to avoid sounding stupid here but what the > > heck... > > > > What are Cads? > > > > John > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Charlotte > > Foust > > Sent: Tuesday, March 30, 2004 10:49 AM > > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > > Subject: RE: [AccessD] Lookup Fields in Table Design > > > > > > ROTFL > > > > Could we get pennants made up for each side? > > > > Charlotte Foust > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: MartyConnelly [mailto:martyconnelly at shaw.ca] > > Sent: Monday, March 29, 2004 5:45 PM > > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > > Subject: Re: [AccessD] Lookup Fields in Table Design > > > > > > I was hoping for "Bounders" and "Cads" > > > > John Bartow wrote: > > > > >I guess maybe "nay-sayers" had a negative connotation to it. > > > > > >Next time I think I'll call the opposing views "Shirts" > and "Skins". > > >Maybe we'll get more people participating :o) > > > > > >-----Original Message----- > > >From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > > >[mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of > > >DWUTKA at marlow.com > > >Sent: Monday, March 29, 2004 3:51 PM > > >To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com > > >Subject: RE: [AccessD] Lookup Fields in Table Design > > > > > > > > >Thank you. I've had my opinion changed on this list > before too. And > > >I > > > > >always learn something new in here. But I was wondering if I was > > >starting to lose it, because I hadn't seen any solid > 'evidence' from > > >the nay-sayers. That's all I was asking for. Reproducable > results. > > >It > > > > >was very easy for me to reproduce the Date Table > 'examples', and see > > >that they are definitely more efficient then using > calculations in a > > >query, for sorting and searching. > > > > > >Just haven't seen anything like that with the Lookup topic. Which > > >isn't surprising though. It is something that has been > mystified in > > >the 'relational database' world. It's in books, on the > web, and thus > > >is defended simply by pointing to other references. Those are the > > >hardest walls to topple. It's a paradigm. > > > > > >Drew > > > > > >-----Original Message----- > > >From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > > >[mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of > John Bartow > > >Sent: Monday, March 29, 2004 3:16 PM > > >To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > > >Subject: RE: [AccessD] Lookup Fields in Table Design > > > > > > > > >I started the thread decidely not using lookup properties for the > > >past 5 years because of the overwhelming attitude among developers > > >that it shouldn't be used. (IIRC that's when I first read Dev's "10 > > >Commandments".) > > > > > >I had no "side" in this debate other than pointing out > weaknesses I > > >saw > > > > >in specific arguments (and being "cutesy" at times) Rarely > is someone > > >go to fully switch "sides" in a debate. (So I don't expect > everyone > > >to agree with > > >me.) I believe that, based on this thread, the people who > argued that > > it is > > >OK to use lookup properties have won the day. > > > > > >Unless someone comes up with a solid reason why it should never be > > >used > > > > >I will not hesitate to use it again when the situation warrants. > > > > > >I challenge anyone to use facts to convince me otherwise. > In fact I > > >would very much appreciate it. And I'll buy you a few if > you can do > > >so! > > > > > >John "always open to the facts" Bartow > > > > > > > > >-----Original Message----- > > >From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > > >[mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of > Charlotte > > >Foust > > >Sent: Monday, March 29, 2004 2:44 PM > > >To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > > >Subject: RE: [AccessD] Lookup Fields in Table Design > > > > > > > > >Forget it. You insist that your opinion carried the day. > Go right > > >ahead and believe it, but don't expect everyone else to agree. > > > > > >Charlotte Foust > > > > > > > > >-- > > >_______________________________________________ > > >AccessD mailing list > > >AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > >http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > > >Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > >-- > > >_______________________________________________ > > >AccessD mailing list > > >AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > >http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > > >Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -- > > Marty Connelly > > Victoria, B.C. > > Canada > > > > > > > > -- > > _______________________________________________ > > AccessD mailing list > > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > -- > > _______________________________________________ > > AccessD mailing list > > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > > > > > -- > > _______________________________________________ > > AccessD mailing list > > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/a> ccessd > Website: > http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > -- > > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/a> ccessd > Website: > http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > From stuart at lexacorp.com.pg Tue Mar 30 13:22:10 2004 From: stuart at lexacorp.com.pg (Stuart McLachlan) Date: Wed, 31 Mar 2004 05:22:10 +1000 Subject: [AccessD] Lookup Fields in Table Design In-Reply-To: References: <8B98F8EA48F8BA47A2F24E0D0AF40CF407AD8053@xlivmbx12.aig.com> Message-ID: <406A5582.18840.4C770FD@localhost> On 30 Mar 2004 at 13:06, John Bartow wrote: > Well, in that case I think I misunderstood "bounders" also - what are > bounders? > Similar to a cad. See http://www.calpundit.com/archives/003324.html -- Lexacorp Ltd http://www.lexacorp.com.pg Information Technology Consultancy, Software Development,System Support. From john at winhaven.net Tue Mar 30 13:34:45 2004 From: john at winhaven.net (John Bartow) Date: Tue, 30 Mar 2004 13:34:45 -0600 Subject: [AccessD] Lookup Fields in Table Design In-Reply-To: <406A5582.18840.4C770FD@localhost> Message-ID: OK that clears that up then, I'm going with "shirts and skins"! :o) -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Stuart McLachlan Sent: Tuesday, March 30, 2004 1:22 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problemsolving Subject: RE: [AccessD] Lookup Fields in Table Design On 30 Mar 2004 at 13:06, John Bartow wrote: > Well, in that case I think I misunderstood "bounders" also - what are > bounders? > Similar to a cad. See http://www.calpundit.com/archives/003324.html -- Lexacorp Ltd http://www.lexacorp.com.pg Information Technology Consultancy, Software Development,System Support. -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From cfoust at infostatsystems.com Tue Mar 30 13:39:17 2004 From: cfoust at infostatsystems.com (Charlotte Foust) Date: Tue, 30 Mar 2004 11:39:17 -0800 Subject: [AccessD] Lookup Fields in Table Design Message-ID: But bounders and cads is *much* cleverer and we can maintain our reputation for esoteric knowledge with those teams. Charlotte Foust -----Original Message----- From: John Bartow [mailto:john at winhaven.net] Sent: Tuesday, March 30, 2004 11:35 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] Lookup Fields in Table Design OK that clears that up then, I'm going with "shirts and skins"! :o) -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Stuart McLachlan Sent: Tuesday, March 30, 2004 1:22 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problemsolving Subject: RE: [AccessD] Lookup Fields in Table Design On 30 Mar 2004 at 13:06, John Bartow wrote: > Well, in that case I think I misunderstood "bounders" also - what are > bounders? > Similar to a cad. See http://www.calpundit.com/archives/003324.html -- Lexacorp Ltd http://www.lexacorp.com.pg Information Technology Consultancy, Software Development,System Support. -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From stuart at lexacorp.com.pg Tue Mar 30 13:40:45 2004 From: stuart at lexacorp.com.pg (Stuart McLachlan) Date: Wed, 31 Mar 2004 05:40:45 +1000 Subject: [AccessD] Lookup Fields in Table Design In-Reply-To: References: <406A5582.18840.4C770FD@localhost> Message-ID: <406A59DD.31923.4D8739A@localhost> On 30 Mar 2004 at 13:34, John Bartow wrote: > OK that clears that up then, I'm going with "shirts and skins"! > :o) > Do we have to post photos? :-) -- Lexacorp Ltd http://www.lexacorp.com.pg Information Technology Consultancy, Software Development,System Support. From DWUTKA at marlow.com Tue Mar 30 13:57:26 2004 From: DWUTKA at marlow.com (DWUTKA at marlow.com) Date: Tue, 30 Mar 2004 13:57:26 -0600 Subject: [AccessD] Lookup Fields in Table Design Message-ID: <2F8793082E00D4119A1700B0D0216BF802227A2B@main2.marlow.com> Ken, you are absolutely right. In math, one example of failure, proves a formula wrong. However, you are incorrect on the engineering example. Let's start with math. Your original posts said that Lookups bloated the database, and were a performance issue. Those were mathematically based arguments. I proved them wrong. For you to prove me wrong, and forever vindicate your arguments in those areas, you would need to show proof of their bloat/performance (under normal conditions, no other variables in the mix....). And before you try, keep in mind, that using a just a value list is just as valid a method of using lookups, as using a lookup query/table. So you'll need to show how ALL lookups are speed/size issues. (I did my testing with query/table lookups. No difference in speed or size, then if they were just relationships. Now for engineering. Engineers design things to fall within set tolerances. Everything they design have failure points. In fact, a lot of designs have built in failure points, to allow for non-crucial elements to fail, and reinforce crucial elements. Take the Challenger incident. Those O-Rings had FAIL POINTS at lower temperatures. The engineers knew, and they even warned NASA, but it was political dancing that killed the Astronauts, not the engineers. The people operating everything did not heed the engineering limits, and thus suffered the consequences. Take 9-11. The architects of the WTC never designed the towers to withstand a head on collision with a jet airliner. They WERE, however, designed to handle being clipped by one. You can't build anything, to compensate for every possible scenario. Now, if you follow that, take a look at your argument again. You are talking about later generational development. You are NOT talking about single generation development, which is where databases are originally designed. In the first place, Lookup's are not always an issue with later generational development. Lookup's are merely default controls. Now yes, if I'm doing a funky 'mergence', where I am not using all of the tables, then I have a LOT of stuff to look into. But if you take an older database BE, and go to create a new FE, the lookups are going to help. (If a single failure mode prove it's bad, doesn't a single helpful mode prove it's good? LOL). >Drew, you said on 3/26/2004 that "the problem is that Lookup fields do NOT >cause corruption.". I have now proven two cases where they do. They don't. Corruption is when a databases file structure fails in some manner. It is not mis-matching of data, because that is human failure, NOT database corruption. You might say that it could be 'data corruption', however, in the cases that you have marked, the data wasn't changed, the relationships were setup wrong. Again, a design flaw, NOT corruption. You really need to watch the lingo on that. Saying that a feature causes corruption, is a very strong thing to say. When in fact, I have never heard of a single Access feature that actually causes database corruption. Every database corruption I have ever come across (and have ever heard of on the list), had an outside (non-Access) influence. NIC's, faulty hardware, sunspots, etc. I'm going to give you a cross example to yours. Because in the first place, it wouldn't have mattered if the State field was a lookup or not, if they only imported the Address table, and used THEIR State table (lookup or not), they would have gotten the WRONG data. Yes, the lookup would SHOW them the wrong 'linked' data in datasheet view, but so would a query based on the same 'wrong' relationship. Don't see how Lookup's CAUSED that failure. Unthorough developers caused it. Here's my example. I have an Access database that is used in our company's website shopping cart. We use an Oracle database for our production database. Now, the company wants to take the 'website' customers, and import them into the Oracle database. The Oracle FE is a goofy system written in PROIV, but I can easily get at the Glovia tables. Now, I go in and find the table that obviously contains our customers. I match the fields up, and start pushing data through. Sooner or later, all sorts of things don't add up correctly. Why is that? Simple, the Oracle system has a SPROC, which is run by the FE when a new customer is entered. Relevant customer data is sprinkled all over the place, not just the main table. Because I am just putting data into the main table, and not running the SPROC, my data is not being 'sprinkled', and therefore, begins to cause LOTS of problems down the line. Now, when I look at the linked table from within Access, do I know that the table is supposed have a SPROC run, when data is entered? Yes, if it was setup as a trigger, the database would have done it itself, unfortunately, the original developers decided they wanted the FE to 'control' when the BE does stuff, so there are practically no triggers in Oracle for that system. Does this mean that SPROCS are bad? Because they weren't used correctly, that makes them the single point of failure. OR, does it mean that as a developer, I should have investigated whether a SPROC was supposed to run or not (which I did by the way). By your examples, I should have just played the idiot, and thrown my hands up in the air screaming 'Damn you SPROCS!'. Sorry, that was meant to be funny! LOL. Ken, all I have been saying, and am still saying, is that with the one exception of that form filter issue, there is nothing wrong with the designed function of the DefaultControl property. I have shown that if you are really concerned about them, that after initial design, they can be easily stripped from all of your fields with a little bit of code. I have shown that there are no performance or size issues involved when using this property. Many people have chimed in with examples of how they find them helpful. Does this mean you have to use them? Of course not. If you don't like to use them, DON'T. But don't tell me, that I'm am wrong for using them, when you can't prove that they are a speed/size concern, or when you can't show how they fail in the database they were designed for. Drew -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Ken Ismert Sent: Monday, March 29, 2004 10:42 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: [AccessD] Lookup Fields in Table Design Andy: You'll be happy to hear that this is my last post on this subject. I had intended to rest after my last post, but since John has asked me to clarify my position, I will do so, as succinctly as possible. My remarks will fall under three topics: general response, how table field lookups (TFLs) can compromise relational integrity, and a summary of my failure analysis. General Response ================ I suppose my mindset is different from my opponents. In mathematics, a postulate, no matter how seductive, can be disproven by a single counter-example. In engineering, a structural design, no matter how beautiful, will have to be corrected or compensated for if a single failure mode can be demonstrated. The data we engineer is no less real than lemmas or steel. My first responsibility is to the integrity of the data entrusted to me. Thus, failure analysis matters to me. Given a choice between a path that offers risk, no matter how slight, and another which offers equivalent results with no risk, I will take the latter every time. My duty to the data demands it. Drew, you said on 3/26/2004 that "the problem is that Lookup fields do NOT cause corruption.". I have now proven two cases where they do. You have made your points. But your refusal to allow for even a caveat on this topic is intellectually dishonest. You simply cannot claim that you are 100% correct. Why is this so hard for you to admit? But seriously, with your cavalier dismissal of potential causes of failure, I'm glad you didn't choose to be an engineer. I sure as hell wouldn't want to drive across any bridge you design. Of course data errors matter, if not to you, then certainly to the owners of the data. But, rather than follow my opponent's example of loudly and longly belittling the other side, adding nothing but rehashed versions of what he's said now dozens of times before, I have two NEW items to contribute. How TFLs Compromise Relational Integrity ======================================== Take two US divisions of a company: East and West. This company had a better data designer, who defined tblStates with three fields: ID - autonumber, Code - text, and Name - text. Better still, referential integrity was established with the ID foreign key in tblAddresses. Of course, TFLs were defined for the table/lookup pair. The only small, tiny flaw is, the data was entered differently for each division: East entered theirs in Name order, while West did theirs in State Postal Code order. So now we have two tables, with identical logical content, that have different IDs for most of the records. But both sets of IDs are numbered 1 to 50. So, the fateful day comes along when East wants to do a nationwide mailing, and requests West's database. West sends their copy, and East simply links West's tblAddresses into their front-end, creating tblAddresses1. Opening up tblAddresses1, everything looks great: every record has a state code -- no missing data. East does their mass mailing using a query off of tblAddresses1, and gets back a huge pile of returns for bad addresses. What has happened, of course, is the TFL in West's tblAddresses has cross-linked with East's tblStates, with autonumber IDs that transposed the state codes. Naturally, if East decided to help West and enter new addresses, relational integrity would allow it, because it cares only that the foreign key exists in the proper lookup table, not what it represents. The large potential weakness here is that if you look at any two tables with autonumber keys, there is almost always a large overlap in autonumber ID values. Under the right conditions, if you cross-link a smaller table to a larger table via TFLs, you might never notice until you have hose your data, ruined an audit, etc. So, TFLs can defeat even referential integrity. TFL Failure Analysis ==================== In front-end/backend applications, TFLs fail when their external context assumptions are violated. Assumption 1: The external lookup table will always exist. Path of failure: You don't link the lookup table in the front-end, or rename the link. No table with the same name exists. Consequences: Intermittent errors. Queries relying on TFL don't show expected values. Assumption 2: The external lookup table will always match the internal name. Path of failure: The correct lookup table is linked when another table of the same name exists, or is not linked when a table of the same name exists Failure Mode 1: One or more fields referenced in the lookup SQL do not exist. Consequences: Errors. Lookup values not properly displayed. Failure Mode 2: All fields referenced in the lookup SQL exist. Consequences: No errors. Inconsistent/incorrect data displayed. * If no referential integrity defined, data entry is possible using values from the wrong lookup table. * If referential integrity is defined on Autonumber ID's, integrity will be defeated where the ID in the wrong lookup table has a match in the correct one. -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From DWUTKA at marlow.com Tue Mar 30 13:58:14 2004 From: DWUTKA at marlow.com (DWUTKA at marlow.com) Date: Tue, 30 Mar 2004 13:58:14 -0600 Subject: [AccessD] Lookup Fields in Table Design Message-ID: <2F8793082E00D4119A1700B0D0216BF802227A2C@main2.marlow.com> Only the skins do. I call shirts! LOL Drew -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Stuart McLachlan Sent: Tuesday, March 30, 2004 1:41 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] Lookup Fields in Table Design On 30 Mar 2004 at 13:34, John Bartow wrote: > OK that clears that up then, I'm going with "shirts and skins"! > :o) > Do we have to post photos? :-) -- Lexacorp Ltd http://www.lexacorp.com.pg Information Technology Consultancy, Software Development,System Support. -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From john at winhaven.net Tue Mar 30 14:03:14 2004 From: john at winhaven.net (John Bartow) Date: Tue, 30 Mar 2004 14:03:14 -0600 Subject: [AccessD] Lookup Fields in Table Design In-Reply-To: Message-ID: But I'm _not_ a member of Mensa! ;o) -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Charlotte Foust Sent: Tuesday, March 30, 2004 1:39 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] Lookup Fields in Table Design But bounders and cads is *much* cleverer and we can maintain our reputation for esoteric knowledge with those teams. Charlotte Foust From john at winhaven.net Tue Mar 30 14:03:15 2004 From: john at winhaven.net (John Bartow) Date: Tue, 30 Mar 2004 14:03:15 -0600 Subject: [AccessD] Lookup Fields in Table Design In-Reply-To: <406A59DD.31923.4D8739A@localhost> Message-ID: avatars, maybe... -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Stuart McLachlan Sent: Tuesday, March 30, 2004 1:41 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problemsolving Subject: RE: [AccessD] Lookup Fields in Table Design On 30 Mar 2004 at 13:34, John Bartow wrote: > OK that clears that up then, I'm going with "shirts and skins"! > :o) > Do we have to post photos? :-) -- Lexacorp Ltd http://www.lexacorp.com.pg Information Technology Consultancy, Software Development,System Support. -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From johnskolits at corporatedatadesign.com Tue Mar 30 14:06:01 2004 From: johnskolits at corporatedatadesign.com (JOhn Skolits) Date: Tue, 30 Mar 2004 15:06:01 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Snapshot Viewer to text In-Reply-To: <000001c41681$35704940$a1194244@hargrove.internal> Message-ID: <005701c41692$6cff8d60$0f01a8c0@cddserver2> Anyone know if you can take a snapshot viewer file and convert it to text? John Skolits -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Mike & Doris Manning Sent: Tuesday, March 30, 2004 1:03 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: [AccessD] Default Printer for Access Report Open that report in design view and then click on "File" and choose "Page Setup". It is possible it get set accidentally when the report was designed. Doris Manning Database Administrator Hargrove Inc. www.hargroveinc.com -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Susan Geller Sent: Tuesday, March 30, 2004 12:28 PM To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: [AccessD] Default Printer for Access Report I have a reporting tool built in Access (2002) that is essentially a wizard where users pick a report, set criteria and then see their output. There are nearly 100 reports in the app. When a user choses to print a report, the default printer that comes up in the print dialog box is the default printer set on their machine, EXCEPT for one of the reports. On that one report only, the default printer that comes up in the dialogue box is a different printer. All users get this different printer. I did not write any code or make any settings to indicate printer choice. What could be happening? How can I get this one report to print to the user's default printer? Note: The only way that users can print a report is with a toolbar PRINT button that I brings up the dialogue box. There is no file menu from the reports and there is no button with a printer icon that sends reports straight to the printer. --Susan Susan B. Geller Office of Information Systems College of Continuing Education University of Minnesota 306 Wesbrook Hall 77 Pleasant Street SE Minneapolis, MN 55455 Phone: 612-626-4785 Fax: 612-625-2568 -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From DWUTKA at marlow.com Tue Mar 30 14:15:28 2004 From: DWUTKA at marlow.com (DWUTKA at marlow.com) Date: Tue, 30 Mar 2004 14:15:28 -0600 Subject: [AccessD] Snapshot Viewer to text Message-ID: <2F8793082E00D4119A1700B0D0216BF802227A2E@main2.marlow.com> Open it in Notepad? Just kidding. Sorry, in a wierd mood. Actually, opening it in notepad shows a lot of garbage. And I didn't see anything in Snapshot viewer that is going to work right. Sorry, this post isn't very helpful, is it. Drew -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of JOhn Skolits Sent: Tuesday, March 30, 2004 2:06 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: [AccessD] Snapshot Viewer to text Anyone know if you can take a snapshot viewer file and convert it to text? John Skolits -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Mike & Doris Manning Sent: Tuesday, March 30, 2004 1:03 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: [AccessD] Default Printer for Access Report Open that report in design view and then click on "File" and choose "Page Setup". It is possible it get set accidentally when the report was designed. Doris Manning Database Administrator Hargrove Inc. www.hargroveinc.com -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Susan Geller Sent: Tuesday, March 30, 2004 12:28 PM To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: [AccessD] Default Printer for Access Report I have a reporting tool built in Access (2002) that is essentially a wizard where users pick a report, set criteria and then see their output. There are nearly 100 reports in the app. When a user choses to print a report, the default printer that comes up in the print dialog box is the default printer set on their machine, EXCEPT for one of the reports. On that one report only, the default printer that comes up in the dialogue box is a different printer. All users get this different printer. I did not write any code or make any settings to indicate printer choice. What could be happening? How can I get this one report to print to the user's default printer? Note: The only way that users can print a report is with a toolbar PRINT button that I brings up the dialogue box. There is no file menu from the reports and there is no button with a printer icon that sends reports straight to the printer. --Susan Susan B. Geller Office of Information Systems College of Continuing Education University of Minnesota 306 Wesbrook Hall 77 Pleasant Street SE Minneapolis, MN 55455 Phone: 612-626-4785 Fax: 612-625-2568 -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From stuart at lexacorp.com.pg Tue Mar 30 14:31:56 2004 From: stuart at lexacorp.com.pg (Stuart McLachlan) Date: Wed, 31 Mar 2004 06:31:56 +1000 Subject: [AccessD] Snapshot Viewer to text In-Reply-To: <2F8793082E00D4119A1700B0D0216BF802227A2E@main2.marlow.com> Message-ID: <406A65DC.8345.50752FE@localhost> On 30 Mar 2004 at 14:15, DWUTKA at marlow.com wrote: > Open it in Notepad? Just kidding. Sorry, in a wierd mood. > > Actually, opening it in notepad shows a lot of garbage. And I didn't see > anything in Snapshot viewer that is going to work right. Sorry, this post > isn't very helpful, is it. > > Drew Set up a generic/text printer and direct it to File: Then print the snapshot. -- Lexacorp Ltd http://www.lexacorp.com.pg Information Technology Consultancy, Software Development,System Support. From reuben at gfconsultants.com Tue Mar 30 15:14:31 2004 From: reuben at gfconsultants.com (Reuben Cummings) Date: Tue, 30 Mar 2004 16:14:31 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Slow Forms Message-ID: I need help with a form that opens very slowly. Everything worked very quickly until I compacted and repaired the db. After compacting, this form will open slowly one time and then open quickly all other times. It will continue to open as I would expect it to until it is compacted again. However, if the app is made into an mde then it always opens slowly. The form is based on a query. There is a tab control on it. One tab has about 14 fields from the same recordsource as the main form. The other three tabs all have subforms based on queries. 2 of those queries have fields that call functions to get their value. All the queries and subforms open very quickly. And if I delete the subforms, the main form will always operate quickly. I have imported into new db's. I have completely rebuilt the main form. Any suggestions on where to start troubleshooting this thing? Thanks. Reuben Cummings GFC, LLC phone: 812.523.1017 email: reuben at gfconsultants.com From johnskolits at corporatedatadesign.com Tue Mar 30 15:21:43 2004 From: johnskolits at corporatedatadesign.com (John Skolits) Date: Tue, 30 Mar 2004 16:21:43 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Snapshot Viewer to text In-Reply-To: <2F8793082E00D4119A1700B0D0216BF802227A2E@main2.marlow.com> Message-ID: <005c01c4169c$ffd5fde0$0f01a8c0@cddserver2> Drew, Actually that was a pretty good one. Stuart, I actually tried that but there is too much junk in the file besides the text. But it indicates to me that there might be a way to do it since it at least had the text characters in there. -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of DWUTKA at marlow.com Sent: Tuesday, March 30, 2004 3:15 PM To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: RE: [AccessD] Snapshot Viewer to text Open it in Notepad? Just kidding. Sorry, in a wierd mood. Actually, opening it in notepad shows a lot of garbage. And I didn't see anything in Snapshot viewer that is going to work right. Sorry, this post isn't very helpful, is it. Drew -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of JOhn Skolits Sent: Tuesday, March 30, 2004 2:06 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: [AccessD] Snapshot Viewer to text Anyone know if you can take a snapshot viewer file and convert it to text? John Skolits -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Mike & Doris Manning Sent: Tuesday, March 30, 2004 1:03 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: [AccessD] Default Printer for Access Report Open that report in design view and then click on "File" and choose "Page Setup". It is possible it get set accidentally when the report was designed. Doris Manning Database Administrator Hargrove Inc. www.hargroveinc.com -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Susan Geller Sent: Tuesday, March 30, 2004 12:28 PM To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: [AccessD] Default Printer for Access Report I have a reporting tool built in Access (2002) that is essentially a wizard where users pick a report, set criteria and then see their output. There are nearly 100 reports in the app. When a user choses to print a report, the default printer that comes up in the print dialog box is the default printer set on their machine, EXCEPT for one of the reports. On that one report only, the default printer that comes up in the dialogue box is a different printer. All users get this different printer. I did not write any code or make any settings to indicate printer choice. What could be happening? How can I get this one report to print to the user's default printer? Note: The only way that users can print a report is with a toolbar PRINT button that I brings up the dialogue box. There is no file menu from the reports and there is no button with a printer icon that sends reports straight to the printer. --Susan Susan B. Geller Office of Information Systems College of Continuing Education University of Minnesota 306 Wesbrook Hall 77 Pleasant Street SE Minneapolis, MN 55455 Phone: 612-626-4785 Fax: 612-625-2568 -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From jimdettman at earthlink.net Tue Mar 30 15:18:55 2004 From: jimdettman at earthlink.net (Jim Dettman) Date: Tue, 30 Mar 2004 16:18:55 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Slow Forms In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Reuben, <> Not sure what you mean by "slow" (i.e. drastic difference?), but you will in general see that after any compact as the database stats are reset and all query plans are redone the first time a query is executed. Jim Dettman President, Online Computer Services of WNY, Inc. (315) 699-3443 jimdettman at earthlink.net -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Reuben Cummings Sent: Tuesday, March 30, 2004 4:15 PM To: AccessD Subject: [AccessD] Slow Forms I need help with a form that opens very slowly. Everything worked very quickly until I compacted and repaired the db. After compacting, this form will open slowly one time and then open quickly all other times. It will continue to open as I would expect it to until it is compacted again. However, if the app is made into an mde then it always opens slowly. The form is based on a query. There is a tab control on it. One tab has about 14 fields from the same recordsource as the main form. The other three tabs all have subforms based on queries. 2 of those queries have fields that call functions to get their value. All the queries and subforms open very quickly. And if I delete the subforms, the main form will always operate quickly. I have imported into new db's. I have completely rebuilt the main form. Any suggestions on where to start troubleshooting this thing? Thanks. Reuben Cummings GFC, LLC phone: 812.523.1017 email: reuben at gfconsultants.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From cfoust at infostatsystems.com Tue Mar 30 15:26:54 2004 From: cfoust at infostatsystems.com (Charlotte Foust) Date: Tue, 30 Mar 2004 13:26:54 -0800 Subject: [AccessD] Lookup Fields in Table Design Message-ID: Programmers have their own esoteric knowledge and vocabulary, ask any user. Charlotte Foust -----Original Message----- From: John Bartow [mailto:john at winhaven.net] Sent: Tuesday, March 30, 2004 12:03 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] Lookup Fields in Table Design But I'm _not_ a member of Mensa! ;o) -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Charlotte Foust Sent: Tuesday, March 30, 2004 1:39 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] Lookup Fields in Table Design But bounders and cads is *much* cleverer and we can maintain our reputation for esoteric knowledge with those teams. Charlotte Foust -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From reuben at gfconsultants.com Tue Mar 30 15:30:10 2004 From: reuben at gfconsultants.com (Reuben Cummings) Date: Tue, 30 Mar 2004 16:30:10 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Slow Forms In-Reply-To: Message-ID: When I say slow I mean from 1 second before compacting to 11-15 seconds the first time and 1 second afterward. In an mde it always takes about 11-15 seconds on my machine and 30 seconds across the network. I should have mentioned the app is split and in A2K. Reuben Cummings GFC, LLC phone: 812.523.1017 email: reuben at gfconsultants.com > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Jim Dettman > Sent: Tuesday, March 30, 2004 4:19 PM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: RE: [AccessD] Slow Forms > > > Reuben, > > < After > compacting, this form will open slowly one time and then open quickly all > other times. It will continue to open as I would expect it to until it is > compacted again.>> > > Not sure what you mean by "slow" (i.e. drastic difference?), > but you will > in general see that after any compact as the database stats are reset and > all query plans are redone the first time a query is executed. > > Jim Dettman > President, > Online Computer Services of WNY, Inc. > (315) 699-3443 > jimdettman at earthlink.net > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Reuben > Cummings > Sent: Tuesday, March 30, 2004 4:15 PM > To: AccessD > Subject: [AccessD] Slow Forms > > > I need help with a form that opens very slowly. > > Everything worked very quickly until I compacted and repaired the > db. After > compacting, this form will open slowly one time and then open quickly all > other times. It will continue to open as I would expect it to until it is > compacted again. > > However, if the app is made into an mde then it always opens slowly. > > The form is based on a query. There is a tab control on it. One tab has > about 14 fields from the same recordsource as the main form. The other > three tabs all have subforms based on queries. 2 of those queries have > fields that call functions to get their value. > > All the queries and subforms open very quickly. And if I delete the > subforms, the main form will always operate quickly. > > I have imported into new db's. I have completely rebuilt the main form. > > Any suggestions on where to start troubleshooting this thing? > > Thanks. > > Reuben Cummings > GFC, LLC > phone: 812.523.1017 > email: reuben at gfconsultants.com > > > > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > From john at winhaven.net Tue Mar 30 15:45:36 2004 From: john at winhaven.net (John Bartow) Date: Tue, 30 Mar 2004 15:45:36 -0600 Subject: [AccessD] OT: A survey from somebody not as well-connected as JC In-Reply-To: Message-ID: I've gotten Acccess work because of it - so I encourage its adoption! ;o) -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Charlotte Foust Sent: Monday, March 29, 2004 2:42 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] OT: A survey from somebody not as well-connected as JC LOL! I've never met anyone who had to use Lotus Notes that liked it. Charlotte Foust -----Original Message----- From: Bryan Carbonnell [mailto:Bryan_Carbonnell at cbc.ca] Sent: Monday, March 29, 2004 11:29 AM To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: RE: [AccessD] OT: A survey from somebody not as well-connected as JC Lotus Notes does what it's designed too?? Obviously you haven't used it :) I certainly doesn't do that. Well unless it was designed to frustrate the user and make a simple task difficult :-) I use it everyday and can't wait until it gets replaced. Bryan Carbonnell bryan_carbonnell at cbc.ca >>> DWUTKA at marlow.com 29-Mar-04 2:20:28 PM >>> Quite frankly, from my perspective, .Net is a lot like Lotus Notes. I know it's out there. I know people use it. I know it does what it's designed to do. But, other then that, it has little affect/interest with me, because I just haven't had anyone tell me something has to be developed in it, nor have I had to use it for it's capabilities. -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From SDSSoftware at optusnet.com.au Tue Mar 30 15:49:46 2004 From: SDSSoftware at optusnet.com.au (Kath Pelletti) Date: Wed, 31 Mar 2004 07:49:46 +1000 Subject: [AccessD] OT: A survey from somebody not as well-connected as JC References: <000401c4168b$a7711dd0$b274d0d5@minster33c3r25> Message-ID: <007d01c416a0$eb0617c0$6401a8c0@user> So true - I think being a salesperson is either in the blood or not...and I don't seem to have that gene either......on the other hand if you know that what you are selling is *great* then maybe..... The other thing is the cost of stuff online. I recently developed a system for my husband's wholesale travel business - to produce quotations p/passenger and all that stuff - took ages as it is customised. Try selling that online - there are systems there being offered for $US300 - I wouldn't be willing to support anything for that money. (By the way - Drew - put me down as a sayer). Kath ----- Original Message ----- From: Andy Lacey To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Sent: Wednesday, March 31, 2004 5:17 AM Subject: RE: [AccessD] OT: A survey from somebody not as well-connected as JC I envy Rocky (sort of) but won't be trying to emulate him. Been there, tried that, and failed. Problem with the product thing is that you have to metamorphose from developer into marketer, and I couldn't. Not my thing at all. Plus IME it involves sinking money into advertising, mailing, brochures, websites nd so on. You have to be prepared to risk big outlay against no guarantee of return. Done that 2 or 3 times to great cost and no great return. Won't be doing it again. -- Andy Lacey http://www.minstersystems.co.uk > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of > Steven W. Erbach > Sent: 30 March 2004 04:16 > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: Re: [AccessD] OT: A survey from somebody not as > well-connected as JC > > > William, > > >> ...don't take this the wrong way << > > I won't. I appreciate your point of view. I have gotten > caught up in the tools as if owning the right brand of socket > wrench will guarantee me a living. > > But I hear you on the client-centered approach. I've worked > on lots of things that were outside of my skill-set comfort zone. > > I talked with a friend recently about my business and he > asked if there was anything I specialized in. I told him no; > my business is producing custom solutions to solve customer > problems. He recommended a product-centered approach, like > what Rocky is aiming for. I have a long-term care facility > marketing and donations program I wrote that might fill the > bill. We'll see. > > >> ...but I'm just me and don't have any intention of ever > working hard > >> again << > > Not really an option for me as we're having some tough times > financially. I can dig the varietal nature of your work, > though. Thanks. > > Regards, > > Steve Erbach > Scientific Marketing > Neenah, WI > > "You must be an intellectual. No normal person would say a > thing like that." - George Orwell > > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/a> ccessd > Website: > http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From john at winhaven.net Tue Mar 30 15:50:53 2004 From: john at winhaven.net (John Bartow) Date: Tue, 30 Mar 2004 15:50:53 -0600 Subject: [AccessD] OT: A survey from somebody not as well-connected as JC In-Reply-To: <000401c4168b$a7711dd0$b274d0d5@minster33c3r25> Message-ID: Same happened to me. I wrote an app 4 years ago that had all the prospects I needed until it came time for the excited prospective customers to pay for it. It would've been a great "foot in the door" app. for me. Never would be a big money maker and I didn't really need to much on it to break even. I'll probably break even on selling the upgrades next year. Moral of the story - never write an app for a government function unless its contracted! -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Andy Lacey Sent: Tuesday, March 30, 2004 1:18 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: [AccessD] OT: A survey from somebody not as well-connected as JC I envy Rocky (sort of) but won't be trying to emulate him. Been there, tried that, and failed. Problem with the product thing is that you have to metamorphose from developer into marketer, and I couldn't. Not my thing at all. Plus IME it involves sinking money into advertising, mailing, brochures, websites nd so on. You have to be prepared to risk big outlay against no guarantee of return. Done that 2 or 3 times to great cost and no great return. Won't be doing it again. -- Andy Lacey http://www.minstersystems.co.uk > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of > Steven W. Erbach > Sent: 30 March 2004 04:16 > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: Re: [AccessD] OT: A survey from somebody not as > well-connected as JC > > > William, > > >> ...don't take this the wrong way << > > I won't. I appreciate your point of view. I have gotten > caught up in the tools as if owning the right brand of socket > wrench will guarantee me a living. > > But I hear you on the client-centered approach. I've worked > on lots of things that were outside of my skill-set comfort zone. > > I talked with a friend recently about my business and he > asked if there was anything I specialized in. I told him no; > my business is producing custom solutions to solve customer > problems. He recommended a product-centered approach, like > what Rocky is aiming for. I have a long-term care facility > marketing and donations program I wrote that might fill the > bill. We'll see. > > >> ...but I'm just me and don't have any intention of ever > working hard > >> again << > > Not really an option for me as we're having some tough times > financially. I can dig the varietal nature of your work, > though. Thanks. > > Regards, > > Steve Erbach > Scientific Marketing > Neenah, WI > > "You must be an intellectual. No normal person would say a > thing like that." - George Orwell > > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/a> ccessd > Website: > http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From bchacc at san.rr.com Tue Mar 30 16:48:38 2004 From: bchacc at san.rr.com (Rocky Smolin - Beach Access Software) Date: Tue, 30 Mar 2004 14:48:38 -0800 Subject: [AccessD] OT: A survey from somebody not as well-connected as JC References: Message-ID: <026501c416a9$24181a60$6601a8c0@HAL9002> Andy: Don't envy me. They jury's still out. I've got a bit of a buffer so we won't miss any meals, but that can't go on forever. I've had two good products and several bad ones. At least this time I'm starting in an economy that's on the upswing. But I've always been a bootstrap kind of guy - we're doing a mailing in San Diego county this month. Hopefully snag two or three systems. Then use that money to mail again in another county. Build it up slowly. Instead of mortgaging the house. I'm still doing some fee-for-service as well. So that keeps some of the lights on. It's a high wire act for sure. But when it does work, it's a thing of beauty. Rocky > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Andy Lacey > Sent: Tuesday, March 30, 2004 1:18 PM > To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' > Subject: RE: [AccessD] OT: A survey from somebody not as well-connected > as JC > > > I envy Rocky (sort of) but won't be trying to emulate him. Been there, tried > that, and failed. Problem with the product thing is that you have to > metamorphose from developer into marketer, and I couldn't. Not my thing at > all. Plus IME it involves sinking money into advertising, mailing, > brochures, websites nd so on. You have to be prepared to risk big outlay > against no guarantee of return. Done that 2 or 3 times to great cost and no > great return. Won't be doing it again. > > -- Andy Lacey > http://www.minstersystems.co.uk > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of > > Steven W. Erbach > > Sent: 30 March 2004 04:16 > > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > > Subject: Re: [AccessD] OT: A survey from somebody not as > > well-connected as JC > > > > > > William, > > > > >> ...don't take this the wrong way << > > > > I won't. I appreciate your point of view. I have gotten > > caught up in the tools as if owning the right brand of socket > > wrench will guarantee me a living. > > > > But I hear you on the client-centered approach. I've worked > > on lots of things that were outside of my skill-set comfort zone. > > > > I talked with a friend recently about my business and he > > asked if there was anything I specialized in. I told him no; > > my business is producing custom solutions to solve customer > > problems. He recommended a product-centered approach, like > > what Rocky is aiming for. I have a long-term care facility > > marketing and donations program I wrote that might fill the > > bill. We'll see. > > > > >> ...but I'm just me and don't have any intention of ever > > working hard > > >> again << > > > > Not really an option for me as we're having some tough times > > financially. I can dig the varietal nature of your work, > > though. Thanks. > > > > Regards, > > > > Steve Erbach > > Scientific Marketing > > Neenah, WI > > > > "You must be an intellectual. No normal person would say a > > thing like that." - George Orwell > > > > -- > > _______________________________________________ > > AccessD mailing list > > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/a> ccessd > > Website: > > http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > > > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > From bchacc at san.rr.com Tue Mar 30 16:50:54 2004 From: bchacc at san.rr.com (Rocky Smolin - Beach Access Software) Date: Tue, 30 Mar 2004 14:50:54 -0800 Subject: [AccessD] Slow Forms References: Message-ID: <027701c416a9$75424d20$6601a8c0@HAL9002> Reuben: Shot in the dark - try decompiling. That sometimes works for me for no apparent reason. Rocky ----- Original Message ----- From: "Reuben Cummings" To: "Access Developers discussion and problem solving" Sent: Tuesday, March 30, 2004 1:30 PM Subject: RE: [AccessD] Slow Forms > When I say slow I mean from 1 second before compacting to 11-15 seconds the > first time and 1 second afterward. > > In an mde it always takes about 11-15 seconds on my machine and 30 seconds > across the network. > > I should have mentioned the app is split and in A2K. > > Reuben Cummings > GFC, LLC > phone: 812.523.1017 > email: reuben at gfconsultants.com > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Jim Dettman > > Sent: Tuesday, March 30, 2004 4:19 PM > > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > > Subject: RE: [AccessD] Slow Forms > > > > > > Reuben, > > > > < > After > > compacting, this form will open slowly one time and then open quickly all > > other times. It will continue to open as I would expect it to until it is > > compacted again.>> > > > > Not sure what you mean by "slow" (i.e. drastic difference?), > > but you will > > in general see that after any compact as the database stats are reset and > > all query plans are redone the first time a query is executed. > > > > Jim Dettman > > President, > > Online Computer Services of WNY, Inc. > > (315) 699-3443 > > jimdettman at earthlink.net > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Reuben > > Cummings > > Sent: Tuesday, March 30, 2004 4:15 PM > > To: AccessD > > Subject: [AccessD] Slow Forms > > > > > > I need help with a form that opens very slowly. > > > > Everything worked very quickly until I compacted and repaired the > > db. After > > compacting, this form will open slowly one time and then open quickly all > > other times. It will continue to open as I would expect it to until it is > > compacted again. > > > > However, if the app is made into an mde then it always opens slowly. > > > > The form is based on a query. There is a tab control on it. One tab has > > about 14 fields from the same recordsource as the main form. The other > > three tabs all have subforms based on queries. 2 of those queries have > > fields that call functions to get their value. > > > > All the queries and subforms open very quickly. And if I delete the > > subforms, the main form will always operate quickly. > > > > I have imported into new db's. I have completely rebuilt the main form. > > > > Any suggestions on where to start troubleshooting this thing? > > > > Thanks. > > > > Reuben Cummings > > GFC, LLC > > phone: 812.523.1017 > > email: reuben at gfconsultants.com > > > > > > > > -- > > _______________________________________________ > > AccessD mailing list > > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > > > -- > > _______________________________________________ > > AccessD mailing list > > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > > > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > From SDSSoftware at optusnet.com.au Tue Mar 30 16:59:25 2004 From: SDSSoftware at optusnet.com.au (Kath Pelletti) Date: Wed, 31 Mar 2004 08:59:25 +1000 Subject: [AccessD] OT: A survey from somebody not as well-connected as JC References: <026501c416a9$24181a60$6601a8c0@HAL9002> Message-ID: <001901c416aa$abe96e70$6401a8c0@user> Rocky - out of interest - what support arrangements / fees are you offering? Kath ----- Original Message ----- From: Rocky Smolin - Beach Access Software To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Sent: Wednesday, March 31, 2004 8:48 AM Subject: Re: [AccessD] OT: A survey from somebody not as well-connected as JC Andy: Don't envy me. They jury's still out. I've got a bit of a buffer so we won't miss any meals, but that can't go on forever. I've had two good products and several bad ones. At least this time I'm starting in an economy that's on the upswing. But I've always been a bootstrap kind of guy - we're doing a mailing in San Diego county this month. Hopefully snag two or three systems. Then use that money to mail again in another county. Build it up slowly. Instead of mortgaging the house. I'm still doing some fee-for-service as well. So that keeps some of the lights on. It's a high wire act for sure. But when it does work, it's a thing of beauty. Rocky > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Andy Lacey > Sent: Tuesday, March 30, 2004 1:18 PM > To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' > Subject: RE: [AccessD] OT: A survey from somebody not as well-connected > as JC > > > I envy Rocky (sort of) but won't be trying to emulate him. Been there, tried > that, and failed. Problem with the product thing is that you have to > metamorphose from developer into marketer, and I couldn't. Not my thing at > all. Plus IME it involves sinking money into advertising, mailing, > brochures, websites nd so on. You have to be prepared to risk big outlay > against no guarantee of return. Done that 2 or 3 times to great cost and no > great return. Won't be doing it again. > > -- Andy Lacey > http://www.minstersystems.co.uk > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of > > Steven W. Erbach > > Sent: 30 March 2004 04:16 > > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > > Subject: Re: [AccessD] OT: A survey from somebody not as > > well-connected as JC > > > > > > William, > > > > >> ...don't take this the wrong way << > > > > I won't. I appreciate your point of view. I have gotten > > caught up in the tools as if owning the right brand of socket > > wrench will guarantee me a living. > > > > But I hear you on the client-centered approach. I've worked > > on lots of things that were outside of my skill-set comfort zone. > > > > I talked with a friend recently about my business and he > > asked if there was anything I specialized in. I told him no; > > my business is producing custom solutions to solve customer > > problems. He recommended a product-centered approach, like > > what Rocky is aiming for. I have a long-term care facility > > marketing and donations program I wrote that might fill the > > bill. We'll see. > > > > >> ...but I'm just me and don't have any intention of ever > > working hard > > >> again << > > > > Not really an option for me as we're having some tough times > > financially. I can dig the varietal nature of your work, > > though. Thanks. > > > > Regards, > > > > Steve Erbach > > Scientific Marketing > > Neenah, WI > > > > "You must be an intellectual. No normal person would say a > > thing like that." - George Orwell > > > > -- > > _______________________________________________ > > AccessD mailing list > > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/a> ccessd > > Website: > > http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > > > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From bchacc at san.rr.com Tue Mar 30 17:42:38 2004 From: bchacc at san.rr.com (Rocky Smolin - Beach Access Software) Date: Tue, 30 Mar 2004 15:42:38 -0800 Subject: [AccessD] OT: A survey from somebody not as well-connected as JC References: <026501c416a9$24181a60$6601a8c0@HAL9002> <001901c416aa$abe96e70$6401a8c0@user> Message-ID: <02cf01c416b0$af86d1c0$6601a8c0@HAL9002> Kath: In the 'old' days when I was flogging this package in DOS, I thought that some of them would be sold by word of mouth, people seeing it, or the reports that got passed around (which all had my company name in the footer). So I always wanted everyone to have the latest version. So I didn't charge for it. It was in my self-interest to have them use the most recent release. And I'm still going to keep to that policy for this new version. If I add a module, like Order Entry, everybody will get it at no cost. With distribution by web, there really is no overhead cost to me to distribute it. And good product sells more product. I promote the product support as a 'free phone in consulting service on any question related to the software OR manufacturing systems' for the first year, and $300 a year after that (about 10% of the purchase price). In the past I had a lot of conversations with people about manufacturing issues - how to structure a bill of materials, how to make up a part numbering scheme, how to solve a particular work order problem, etc - and very few questions about how to actually run the software. This added a LOT of value to the product and didn't really take very much time. The key is to make a product which is so user stupid that anybody who can read and count to 20 can run it. Then you don't get the same question 20 times a day, like 'how do I run a costed inventory report?'. If a user doesn't want to pay the yearly maintenance then they don't get the phone support. I could tell them they don't get the new releases as well but that works against me salewise. Many people didn't pay for the support after the first couple of years because they never called me for anything. The other key, of course, it goes without saying, is to make the product so solid that it doesn't generate bugs and errors. Then you don't get any support calls. BTW - I'm not a marketer or salesy type person, either. But if you have something you believe in it's not really selling. And I really believe in this product (why not, I invented it?). I just present the product and if they like it fine. They buy it. If not, it's like pushing on a string. I always wanted people to feel like they got more than they expected and when you sell hard you overhype, raise expectations, and end up with customers who expect more than you have to give. When people buy E-Z-MRP they feel like they just bought a dollar for fifty cents. That makes selling a lot easier, too. I suppose that's why I'm successful but not rich. :) HTH Rocky Smolin Beach Access Software http://www.e-z-mrp.com ----- Original Message ----- From: "Kath Pelletti" To: "Access Developers discussion and problem solving" Sent: Tuesday, March 30, 2004 2:59 PM Subject: Re: [AccessD] OT: A survey from somebody not as well-connected as JC Rocky - out of interest - what support arrangements / fees are you offering? Kath ----- Original Message ----- From: Rocky Smolin - Beach Access Software To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Sent: Wednesday, March 31, 2004 8:48 AM Subject: Re: [AccessD] OT: A survey from somebody not as well-connected as JC Andy: Don't envy me. They jury's still out. I've got a bit of a buffer so we won't miss any meals, but that can't go on forever. I've had two good products and several bad ones. At least this time I'm starting in an economy that's on the upswing. But I've always been a bootstrap kind of guy - we're doing a mailing in San Diego county this month. Hopefully snag two or three systems. Then use that money to mail again in another county. Build it up slowly. Instead of mortgaging the house. I'm still doing some fee-for-service as well. So that keeps some of the lights on. It's a high wire act for sure. But when it does work, it's a thing of beauty. Rocky > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Andy Lacey > Sent: Tuesday, March 30, 2004 1:18 PM > To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' > Subject: RE: [AccessD] OT: A survey from somebody not as well-connected > as JC > > > I envy Rocky (sort of) but won't be trying to emulate him. Been there, tried > that, and failed. Problem with the product thing is that you have to > metamorphose from developer into marketer, and I couldn't. Not my thing at > all. Plus IME it involves sinking money into advertising, mailing, > brochures, websites nd so on. You have to be prepared to risk big outlay > against no guarantee of return. Done that 2 or 3 times to great cost and no > great return. Won't be doing it again. > > -- Andy Lacey > http://www.minstersystems.co.uk > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of > > Steven W. Erbach > > Sent: 30 March 2004 04:16 > > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > > Subject: Re: [AccessD] OT: A survey from somebody not as > > well-connected as JC > > > > > > William, > > > > >> ...don't take this the wrong way << > > > > I won't. I appreciate your point of view. I have gotten > > caught up in the tools as if owning the right brand of socket > > wrench will guarantee me a living. > > > > But I hear you on the client-centered approach. I've worked > > on lots of things that were outside of my skill-set comfort zone. > > > > I talked with a friend recently about my business and he > > asked if there was anything I specialized in. I told him no; > > my business is producing custom solutions to solve customer > > problems. He recommended a product-centered approach, like > > what Rocky is aiming for. I have a long-term care facility > > marketing and donations program I wrote that might fill the > > bill. We'll see. > > > > >> ...but I'm just me and don't have any intention of ever > > working hard > > >> again << > > > > Not really an option for me as we're having some tough times > > financially. I can dig the varietal nature of your work, > > though. Thanks. > > > > Regards, > > > > Steve Erbach > > Scientific Marketing > > Neenah, WI > > > > "You must be an intellectual. No normal person would say a > > thing like that." - George Orwell > > > > -- > > _______________________________________________ > > AccessD mailing list > > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/a> ccessd > > Website: > > http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > > > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From dwaters at usinternet.com Tue Mar 30 18:35:26 2004 From: dwaters at usinternet.com (Dan Waters) Date: Tue, 30 Mar 2004 18:35:26 -0600 Subject: [AccessD] Slow Forms In-Reply-To: <29539141.1080681589146.JavaMail.root@sniper2.marix.com> Message-ID: <000501c416b8$0fca0d70$de1811d8@DanWaters> Reuben - This worked for me once: 1) Comment out ALL code in the form. Save the form. 2) Exit out of the db. 3) Decompile while opening the db. 4) Uncomment all the code behind the form. 5) Compile the db. Any better? I believe that commenting out all the code, then decompiling the db, removes all compiled code behind the form. When you uncomment the code and compile, now the compiled code is all new. This gives the form a 'fresh start'. I have no basis for this idea, but it did help once with a form that was crashing, and after I did this, things went faster! Best of Luck! Dan -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Reuben Cummings Sent: Tuesday, March 30, 2004 3:15 PM To: AccessD Subject: [AccessD] Slow Forms I need help with a form that opens very slowly. Everything worked very quickly until I compacted and repaired the db. After compacting, this form will open slowly one time and then open quickly all other times. It will continue to open as I would expect it to until it is compacted again. However, if the app is made into an mde then it always opens slowly. The form is based on a query. There is a tab control on it. One tab has about 14 fields from the same recordsource as the main form. The other three tabs all have subforms based on queries. 2 of those queries have fields that call functions to get their value. All the queries and subforms open very quickly. And if I delete the subforms, the main form will always operate quickly. I have imported into new db's. I have completely rebuilt the main form. Any suggestions on where to start troubleshooting this thing? Thanks. Reuben Cummings GFC, LLC phone: 812.523.1017 email: reuben at gfconsultants.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From DWUTKA at marlow.com Tue Mar 30 20:13:23 2004 From: DWUTKA at marlow.com (DWUTKA at marlow.com) Date: Tue, 30 Mar 2004 20:13:23 -0600 Subject: [AccessD] Snapshot Viewer to text Message-ID: <2F8793082E00D4119A1700B0D0216BF802227A38@main2.marlow.com> I have my days. Sorry I wasn't more help with this one. Drew -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of John Skolits Sent: Tuesday, March 30, 2004 3:22 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: [AccessD] Snapshot Viewer to text Drew, Actually that was a pretty good one. Stuart, I actually tried that but there is too much junk in the file besides the text. But it indicates to me that there might be a way to do it since it at least had the text characters in there. -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of DWUTKA at marlow.com Sent: Tuesday, March 30, 2004 3:15 PM To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: RE: [AccessD] Snapshot Viewer to text Open it in Notepad? Just kidding. Sorry, in a wierd mood. Actually, opening it in notepad shows a lot of garbage. And I didn't see anything in Snapshot viewer that is going to work right. Sorry, this post isn't very helpful, is it. Drew -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of JOhn Skolits Sent: Tuesday, March 30, 2004 2:06 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: [AccessD] Snapshot Viewer to text Anyone know if you can take a snapshot viewer file and convert it to text? John Skolits -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Mike & Doris Manning Sent: Tuesday, March 30, 2004 1:03 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: [AccessD] Default Printer for Access Report Open that report in design view and then click on "File" and choose "Page Setup". It is possible it get set accidentally when the report was designed. Doris Manning Database Administrator Hargrove Inc. www.hargroveinc.com -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Susan Geller Sent: Tuesday, March 30, 2004 12:28 PM To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: [AccessD] Default Printer for Access Report I have a reporting tool built in Access (2002) that is essentially a wizard where users pick a report, set criteria and then see their output. There are nearly 100 reports in the app. When a user choses to print a report, the default printer that comes up in the print dialog box is the default printer set on their machine, EXCEPT for one of the reports. On that one report only, the default printer that comes up in the dialogue box is a different printer. All users get this different printer. I did not write any code or make any settings to indicate printer choice. What could be happening? How can I get this one report to print to the user's default printer? Note: The only way that users can print a report is with a toolbar PRINT button that I brings up the dialogue box. There is no file menu from the reports and there is no button with a printer icon that sends reports straight to the printer. --Susan Susan B. Geller Office of Information Systems College of Continuing Education University of Minnesota 306 Wesbrook Hall 77 Pleasant Street SE Minneapolis, MN 55455 Phone: 612-626-4785 Fax: 612-625-2568 -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From wdhindman at bellsouth.net Tue Mar 30 20:16:59 2004 From: wdhindman at bellsouth.net (William Hindman) Date: Tue, 30 Mar 2004 21:16:59 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Lookup Fields in Table Design References: Message-ID: <002a01c416c6$3fb3a510$6101a8c0@dejpolsys> ...yeah ...but we're all looking forward to seeing you on the skins team :) William Hindman ipsedixitism: something is true because I myself have said it is true ...the philosophy of Noam Chomsky :) ----- Original Message ----- From: "Charlotte Foust" To: "Access Developers discussion and problem solving" Sent: Tuesday, March 30, 2004 2:39 PM Subject: RE: [AccessD] Lookup Fields in Table Design > But bounders and cads is *much* cleverer and we can maintain our > reputation for esoteric knowledge with those teams. > > Charlotte Foust From wdhindman at bellsouth.net Tue Mar 30 20:27:06 2004 From: wdhindman at bellsouth.net (William Hindman) Date: Tue, 30 Mar 2004 21:27:06 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Slow Forms References: Message-ID: <004301c416c7$a9f698f0$6101a8c0@dejpolsys> ...have you tried not loading the tabbed data until its actually selected ...that should let your main form open quickly based upon the info you submitted. William Hindman ipsedixitism: something is true because I myself have said it is true ...the philosophy of Noam Chomsky :) ----- Original Message ----- From: "Reuben Cummings" To: "AccessD" Sent: Tuesday, March 30, 2004 4:14 PM Subject: [AccessD] Slow Forms > I need help with a form that opens very slowly. > > Everything worked very quickly until I compacted and repaired the db. After > compacting, this form will open slowly one time and then open quickly all > other times. It will continue to open as I would expect it to until it is > compacted again. > > However, if the app is made into an mde then it always opens slowly. > > The form is based on a query. There is a tab control on it. One tab has > about 14 fields from the same recordsource as the main form. The other > three tabs all have subforms based on queries. 2 of those queries have > fields that call functions to get their value. > > All the queries and subforms open very quickly. And if I delete the > subforms, the main form will always operate quickly. > > I have imported into new db's. I have completely rebuilt the main form. > > Any suggestions on where to start troubleshooting this thing? > > Thanks. > > Reuben Cummings > GFC, LLC > phone: 812.523.1017 > email: reuben at gfconsultants.com > > > > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > From greggs at msn.com Tue Mar 30 21:15:39 2004 From: greggs at msn.com (Gregg) Date: Tue, 30 Mar 2004 21:15:39 -0600 Subject: [AccessD] Compacting A2K In-Reply-To: <004301c416c7$a9f698f0$6101a8c0@dejpolsys> Message-ID: I'm really stumped on this one. I have a 2K database that won't compact. It says the temporary database is in use. Every once in while it will work... maybe 1 out of 20 tries. This app is running under NT4 and Citrix. I opened a new database and imported just the tables and got the same error. I have a mixture of SQL and Access linked tables as well as FE tables. I start removing tables until it begins working but when I add the last tables I deleted back in, it still works. It's not consistent. When it begins to work I start getting another occasional error. At the end of the compact process I get an error that says "Cannot find field 'Description'". I do have tables with a field name of description but when I remove them I still get the error. The Help says it is error 3799. I can't find anything on it anywhere. Also, I can move the app to another machine and it will compact fine at least until it looks for the SQL links. We rebuilt Citrix and NT OS which did not help. Gregg Steinbrenner From jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com Tue Mar 30 21:14:40 2004 From: jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com (John W. Colby) Date: Tue, 30 Mar 2004 22:14:40 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Compacting A2K In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Office Service packs applied? Jet SPs applied? Windows SPs applied? John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Gregg Sent: Tuesday, March 30, 2004 10:16 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: [AccessD] Compacting A2K I'm really stumped on this one. I have a 2K database that won't compact. It says the temporary database is in use. Every once in while it will work... maybe 1 out of 20 tries. This app is running under NT4 and Citrix. I opened a new database and imported just the tables and got the same error. I have a mixture of SQL and Access linked tables as well as FE tables. I start removing tables until it begins working but when I add the last tables I deleted back in, it still works. It's not consistent. When it begins to work I start getting another occasional error. At the end of the compact process I get an error that says "Cannot find field 'Description'". I do have tables with a field name of description but when I remove them I still get the error. The Help says it is error 3799. I can't find anything on it anywhere. Also, I can move the app to another machine and it will compact fine at least until it looks for the SQL links. We rebuilt Citrix and NT OS which did not help. Gregg Steinbrenner -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From ebarro at afsweb.com Tue Mar 30 21:13:18 2004 From: ebarro at afsweb.com (Eric Barro) Date: Tue, 30 Mar 2004 19:13:18 -0800 Subject: [AccessD] OT: A survey from somebody not as well-connected as JC In-Reply-To: <20040329101610.2131078867.serbach@new.rr.com> Message-ID: Steve, I have a day job working for a company utilizing my computing skills and I do work on the side not so much to earn big bucks but moreso to increase my exposure to new and different ways to implement technology solutions. 1. I started developing applications using MS Access. I built the app for this company I'm working for and I maintained it for 4 years until it was put to rest last year after we replaced it with a web-based workflow system utilizing classic ASP and SQL server 2000. I still use Access but mostly as a front end to SQL server (to create tables, queries, stored procedures). I use ADPs. 2. Most of my development work is now web-based utilizing classic ASP and SQL server 2000. I have had the chance to learn .NET and also had the chance to develop a full-blown web-based application for our workflow systems. This project utilizes a dozen ASP.NET pages with a framework I built to handle the back end processing. I am currently utilizing .NET for new development projects and will soon be migrating over my classic ASP projects to .NET. 3. I quickly adapted to the .NET framework and I attribute it to my experience with Visual Basic and database management systems development. I also attribute it to the fact that I wasn't scared to throw away what I already had in terms of classic ASP development. .NET leverages a full fledged VB or C# environment and not just scripting technology. My many years of experience in networks and Windows server technologies also helped a lot in understanding how the .NET framework interacts with networks. .NET basically compiles everything in a DLL and executes the DLL. Because of this it is faster and more efficient since the code doesn't have to be interpreted before it is run. In fact I can write a whole .NET application and utilize the compiled DLL and have one line of code on my ASP.NET page referencing the DLL. Classic ASP exposes all the code to anyone who can get to the ASP pages. By compiling the code behind into a DLL a developer can "protect" his/her development work. I am currently developing a .NET tool for developers that will address the need for rapid development of web-based forms. This tool takes care of the backend integration with a database management system. Think in terms of concentrating on the design of your web-based ASP.NET forms and leaving the database integration to this tool. I can't say anymore before it's officially released though. :) --- Eric Barro Senior Systems Analyst Advanced Field Services (208) 772-7060 http://www.afsweb.com -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Steven W. Erbach Sent: Monday, March 29, 2004 8:16 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: [AccessD] OT: A survey from somebody not as well-connected as JC Dear Group, This is for the independent developers only. If you work for a company and you'd like to take the survey, just let me know that you're not an independent developer when you reply. I'm curious about what you independent developers have had to learn to keep up with the changing marketplace. 1) If you've managed to maintain a significant clientele by developing Access applications, what have you done to sharpen your skills to make you more attractive as the developer of choice in a competitive field? That is, have you developed a framework like JC, or have you gone more towards developing front ends for SQL back ends like Arthur? 2) If you've moved away from Access development as your primary source of income, what other platforms have you learned to make a living? Do you now do mostly .NET development, ASP, SQL Server, PHP, what? 3) If you're doing .NET development, what kind of things are you doing? Has it lived up to the hype? Last year about this time I was searching the want ads for positions before I decided to stick with my own business. I was amused by the ads that profiled the "ideal" candidate as one who had deep .NET experience. The stinking product had only officially been on the market for one whole year with another year in beta before that. Sheesh! Have you seen any real live .NET implementations that are worth bragging about...or have you created any? In short, what have you had to do to make yourself useful as an independent developer? I know that William works quite a bit with SBS and LANs. Have any of you developed proficiency with cabling and routers and such to increase your marketability? Do you do any security consulting, say? Do you build custom-order PCs? Do you do LAN management, e-mail server management and setup, web site development? One final thing: Years ago when I started I took advantage of the swing of the pendulum that put PC power in users' hands. That is, the PC was a great analysis tool for mainframe data. Lotus 1-2-3, dBASE III, Paradox, etc., were the tools that enabled users and departments to fiddle with the data without having to wait for the IT department to get around to their little pissant application requests. Now the pendulum has swung the other way. Security concerns and scalability and distributed networks / VPNs and web-based database applications have all made the pendulum swing back towards centralized control...and the IT guys are loving it. Or am I reading it wrong? What do you think? Regards, Steve Erbach Scientific Marketing Neenah, WI 920-969-0504 Security and Virus information: http://www.swerbach.com/security --- Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.593 / Virus Database: 376 - Release Date: 2/20/2004 From accessd at shaw.ca Tue Mar 30 22:14:05 2004 From: accessd at shaw.ca (Jim Lawrence (AccessD)) Date: Tue, 30 Mar 2004 20:14:05 -0800 Subject: [AccessD] OT: A survey from somebody not as well-connected as JC In-Reply-To: <007d01c416a0$eb0617c0$6401a8c0@user> Message-ID: Hi All: Unfortunately, I think the era of writing a good program and subsequently living of its' sales, is past. Too many companies have created applications for every market and will sell the results for just 2 or 3 hundred dollars, just to scrap by. There is no support but the general public has come to expect that. In no small part, Microsoft has contributed to it. In one scenario, within a government department, consisting of 300 plus stations, it took three full-time personnel just to support the site. Now, it takes four full-time contractors to support whole Ministers, consisting of 6500 plus stations. Over 20 times the level of productivity and service, on an OSs that has software, imbedded (free), that would have added together, a few years ago, to an estimated 10,000 dollars and the system sells for $250.00. What happened to all those small flourishing companies, that supplied the markets with custom apps and utilities? Instead of fixing a computer or modifying (hacking) a piece or group of software package into working in concert, it is easier and cheaper to dump the old stuff, buy a few $500 dollar boxes, with XP on them and get the secretaries' son to parl? together a barely functional Access DB. If the worse comes to the worse you can always contract, at ten bucks an hour, some third rate database guy or a first rate foreign programmer. Don't believe me; then check this out, as I get these type of emails all the time: http://www.pavan.org/. This is a representative example. You can create a good programming business but you have to work long and hard and be as equally good salesperson as programmer. If you are willing to make sacrifices, stay in for the long haul and strive towards developing customer loyalty, I think there are still opportunities... but it ain't the eighties or nineties anymore. If you really love making great software, enjoy chatting with your clients (...and for you young guys and gals that does not mean getting to know the client's secretary or the fellow in shipping...) and are not obsessed with money, this is where you should be. Now if you want my opinion...just ask. :-) What is yours? Jim -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Kath Pelletti Sent: Tuesday, March 30, 2004 1:50 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] OT: A survey from somebody not as well-connected as JC So true - I think being a salesperson is either in the blood or not...and I don't seem to have that gene either......on the other hand if you know that what you are selling is *great* then maybe..... The other thing is the cost of stuff online. I recently developed a system for my husband's wholesale travel business - to produce quotations p/passenger and all that stuff - took ages as it is customised. Try selling that online - there are systems there being offered for $US300 - I wouldn't be willing to support anything for that money. (By the way - Drew - put me down as a sayer). Kath ----- Original Message ----- From: Andy Lacey To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Sent: Wednesday, March 31, 2004 5:17 AM Subject: RE: [AccessD] OT: A survey from somebody not as well-connected as JC I envy Rocky (sort of) but won't be trying to emulate him. Been there, tried that, and failed. Problem with the product thing is that you have to metamorphose from developer into marketer, and I couldn't. Not my thing at all. Plus IME it involves sinking money into advertising, mailing, brochures, websites nd so on. You have to be prepared to risk big outlay against no guarantee of return. Done that 2 or 3 times to great cost and no great return. Won't be doing it again. -- Andy Lacey http://www.minstersystems.co.uk > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of > Steven W. Erbach > Sent: 30 March 2004 04:16 > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: Re: [AccessD] OT: A survey from somebody not as > well-connected as JC > > > William, > > >> ...don't take this the wrong way << > > I won't. I appreciate your point of view. I have gotten > caught up in the tools as if owning the right brand of socket > wrench will guarantee me a living. > > But I hear you on the client-centered approach. I've worked > on lots of things that were outside of my skill-set comfort zone. > > I talked with a friend recently about my business and he > asked if there was anything I specialized in. I told him no; > my business is producing custom solutions to solve customer > problems. He recommended a product-centered approach, like > what Rocky is aiming for. I have a long-term care facility > marketing and donations program I wrote that might fill the > bill. We'll see. > > >> ...but I'm just me and don't have any intention of ever > working hard > >> again << > > Not really an option for me as we're having some tough times > financially. I can dig the varietal nature of your work, > though. Thanks. > > Regards, > > Steve Erbach > Scientific Marketing > Neenah, WI > > "You must be an intellectual. No normal person would say a > thing like that." - George Orwell > > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/a> ccessd > Website: > http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From SDSSoftware at optusnet.com.au Tue Mar 30 22:19:43 2004 From: SDSSoftware at optusnet.com.au (Kath Pelletti) Date: Wed, 31 Mar 2004 14:19:43 +1000 Subject: [AccessD] OT: A survey from somebody not as well-connected as JC References: Message-ID: <000b01c416d7$65152200$6401a8c0@user> .......all the time: http://www.pavan.org/. This is a representative example. Unbelievable. Kath ----- Original Message ----- From: Jim Lawrence (AccessD) To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Sent: Wednesday, March 31, 2004 2:14 PM Subject: RE: [AccessD] OT: A survey from somebody not as well-connected as JC Hi All: Unfortunately, I think the era of writing a good program and subsequently living of its' sales, is past. Too many companies have created applications for every market and will sell the results for just 2 or 3 hundred dollars, just to scrap by. There is no support but the general public has come to expect that. In no small part, Microsoft has contributed to it. In one scenario, within a government department, consisting of 300 plus stations, it took three full-time personnel just to support the site. Now, it takes four full-time contractors to support whole Ministers, consisting of 6500 plus stations. Over 20 times the level of productivity and service, on an OSs that has software, imbedded (free), that would have added together, a few years ago, to an estimated 10,000 dollars and the system sells for $250.00. What happened to all those small flourishing companies, that supplied the markets with custom apps and utilities? Instead of fixing a computer or modifying (hacking) a piece or group of software package into working in concert, it is easier and cheaper to dump the old stuff, buy a few $500 dollar boxes, with XP on them and get the secretaries' son to parl? together a barely functional Access DB. If the worse comes to the worse you can always contract, at ten bucks an hour, some third rate database guy or a first rate foreign programmer. Don't believe me; then check this out, as I get these type of emails all the time: http://www.pavan.org/. This is a representative example. You can create a good programming business but you have to work long and hard and be as equally good salesperson as programmer. If you are willing to make sacrifices, stay in for the long haul and strive towards developing customer loyalty, I think there are still opportunities... but it ain't the eighties or nineties anymore. If you really love making great software, enjoy chatting with your clients (...and for you young guys and gals that does not mean getting to know the client's secretary or the fellow in shipping...) and are not obsessed with money, this is where you should be. Now if you want my opinion...just ask. :-) What is yours? Jim -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Kath Pelletti Sent: Tuesday, March 30, 2004 1:50 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] OT: A survey from somebody not as well-connected as JC So true - I think being a salesperson is either in the blood or not...and I don't seem to have that gene either......on the other hand if you know that what you are selling is *great* then maybe..... The other thing is the cost of stuff online. I recently developed a system for my husband's wholesale travel business - to produce quotations p/passenger and all that stuff - took ages as it is customised. Try selling that online - there are systems there being offered for $US300 - I wouldn't be willing to support anything for that money. (By the way - Drew - put me down as a sayer). Kath ----- Original Message ----- From: Andy Lacey To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Sent: Wednesday, March 31, 2004 5:17 AM Subject: RE: [AccessD] OT: A survey from somebody not as well-connected as JC I envy Rocky (sort of) but won't be trying to emulate him. Been there, tried that, and failed. Problem with the product thing is that you have to metamorphose from developer into marketer, and I couldn't. Not my thing at all. Plus IME it involves sinking money into advertising, mailing, brochures, websites nd so on. You have to be prepared to risk big outlay against no guarantee of return. Done that 2 or 3 times to great cost and no great return. Won't be doing it again. -- Andy Lacey http://www.minstersystems.co.uk > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of > Steven W. Erbach > Sent: 30 March 2004 04:16 > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: Re: [AccessD] OT: A survey from somebody not as > well-connected as JC > > > William, > > >> ...don't take this the wrong way << > > I won't. I appreciate your point of view. I have gotten > caught up in the tools as if owning the right brand of socket > wrench will guarantee me a living. > > But I hear you on the client-centered approach. I've worked > on lots of things that were outside of my skill-set comfort zone. > > I talked with a friend recently about my business and he > asked if there was anything I specialized in. I told him no; > my business is producing custom solutions to solve customer > problems. He recommended a product-centered approach, like > what Rocky is aiming for. I have a long-term care facility > marketing and donations program I wrote that might fill the > bill. We'll see. > > >> ...but I'm just me and don't have any intention of ever > working hard > >> again << > > Not really an option for me as we're having some tough times > financially. I can dig the varietal nature of your work, > though. Thanks. > > Regards, > > Steve Erbach > Scientific Marketing > Neenah, WI > > "You must be an intellectual. No normal person would say a > thing like that." - George Orwell > > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/a> ccessd > Website: > http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From SDSSoftware at optusnet.com.au Tue Mar 30 22:23:52 2004 From: SDSSoftware at optusnet.com.au (Kath Pelletti) Date: Wed, 31 Mar 2004 14:23:52 +1000 Subject: [AccessD] OT: A survey from somebody not as well-connected as JC References: <026501c416a9$24181a60$6601a8c0@HAL9002><001901c416aa$abe96e70$6401a8c0@user> <02cf01c416b0$af86d1c0$6601a8c0@HAL9002> Message-ID: <001b01c416d7$f95da4a0$6401a8c0@user> Well I wish you the very best of luck...can you let us know how the sales go? Kath ----- Original Message ----- From: Rocky Smolin - Beach Access Software To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Sent: Wednesday, March 31, 2004 9:42 AM Subject: Re: [AccessD] OT: A survey from somebody not as well-connected as JC Kath: In the 'old' days when I was flogging this package in DOS, I thought that some of them would be sold by word of mouth, people seeing it, or the reports that got passed around (which all had my company name in the footer). So I always wanted everyone to have the latest version. So I didn't charge for it. It was in my self-interest to have them use the most recent release. And I'm still going to keep to that policy for this new version. If I add a module, like Order Entry, everybody will get it at no cost. With distribution by web, there really is no overhead cost to me to distribute it. And good product sells more product. I promote the product support as a 'free phone in consulting service on any question related to the software OR manufacturing systems' for the first year, and $300 a year after that (about 10% of the purchase price). In the past I had a lot of conversations with people about manufacturing issues - how to structure a bill of materials, how to make up a part numbering scheme, how to solve a particular work order problem, etc - and very few questions about how to actually run the software. This added a LOT of value to the product and didn't really take very much time. The key is to make a product which is so user stupid that anybody who can read and count to 20 can run it. Then you don't get the same question 20 times a day, like 'how do I run a costed inventory report?'. If a user doesn't want to pay the yearly maintenance then they don't get the phone support. I could tell them they don't get the new releases as well but that works against me salewise. Many people didn't pay for the support after the first couple of years because they never called me for anything. The other key, of course, it goes without saying, is to make the product so solid that it doesn't generate bugs and errors. Then you don't get any support calls. BTW - I'm not a marketer or salesy type person, either. But if you have something you believe in it's not really selling. And I really believe in this product (why not, I invented it?). I just present the product and if they like it fine. They buy it. If not, it's like pushing on a string. I always wanted people to feel like they got more than they expected and when you sell hard you overhype, raise expectations, and end up with customers who expect more than you have to give. When people buy E-Z-MRP they feel like they just bought a dollar for fifty cents. That makes selling a lot easier, too. I suppose that's why I'm successful but not rich. :) HTH Rocky Smolin Beach Access Software http://www.e-z-mrp.com ----- Original Message ----- From: "Kath Pelletti" To: "Access Developers discussion and problem solving" Sent: Tuesday, March 30, 2004 2:59 PM Subject: Re: [AccessD] OT: A survey from somebody not as well-connected as JC Rocky - out of interest - what support arrangements / fees are you offering? Kath ----- Original Message ----- From: Rocky Smolin - Beach Access Software To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Sent: Wednesday, March 31, 2004 8:48 AM Subject: Re: [AccessD] OT: A survey from somebody not as well-connected as JC Andy: Don't envy me. They jury's still out. I've got a bit of a buffer so we won't miss any meals, but that can't go on forever. I've had two good products and several bad ones. At least this time I'm starting in an economy that's on the upswing. But I've always been a bootstrap kind of guy - we're doing a mailing in San Diego county this month. Hopefully snag two or three systems. Then use that money to mail again in another county. Build it up slowly. Instead of mortgaging the house. I'm still doing some fee-for-service as well. So that keeps some of the lights on. It's a high wire act for sure. But when it does work, it's a thing of beauty. Rocky > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Andy Lacey > Sent: Tuesday, March 30, 2004 1:18 PM > To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' > Subject: RE: [AccessD] OT: A survey from somebody not as well-connected > as JC > > > I envy Rocky (sort of) but won't be trying to emulate him. Been there, tried > that, and failed. Problem with the product thing is that you have to > metamorphose from developer into marketer, and I couldn't. Not my thing at > all. Plus IME it involves sinking money into advertising, mailing, > brochures, websites nd so on. You have to be prepared to risk big outlay > against no guarantee of return. Done that 2 or 3 times to great cost and no > great return. Won't be doing it again. > > -- Andy Lacey > http://www.minstersystems.co.uk > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of > > Steven W. Erbach > > Sent: 30 March 2004 04:16 > > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > > Subject: Re: [AccessD] OT: A survey from somebody not as > > well-connected as JC > > > > > > William, > > > > >> ...don't take this the wrong way << > > > > I won't. I appreciate your point of view. I have gotten > > caught up in the tools as if owning the right brand of socket > > wrench will guarantee me a living. > > > > But I hear you on the client-centered approach. I've worked > > on lots of things that were outside of my skill-set comfort zone. > > > > I talked with a friend recently about my business and he > > asked if there was anything I specialized in. I told him no; > > my business is producing custom solutions to solve customer > > problems. He recommended a product-centered approach, like > > what Rocky is aiming for. I have a long-term care facility > > marketing and donations program I wrote that might fill the > > bill. We'll see. > > > > >> ...but I'm just me and don't have any intention of ever > > working hard > > >> again << > > > > Not really an option for me as we're having some tough times > > financially. I can dig the varietal nature of your work, > > though. Thanks. > > > > Regards, > > > > Steve Erbach > > Scientific Marketing > > Neenah, WI > > > > "You must be an intellectual. No normal person would say a > > thing like that." - George Orwell > > > > -- > > _______________________________________________ > > AccessD mailing list > > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/a> ccessd > > Website: > > http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > > > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From accessd at shaw.ca Tue Mar 30 22:26:17 2004 From: accessd at shaw.ca (Jim Lawrence (AccessD)) Date: Tue, 30 Mar 2004 20:26:17 -0800 Subject: [AccessD] OT: A survey from somebody not as well-connected as JC In-Reply-To: <026501c416a9$24181a60$6601a8c0@HAL9002> Message-ID: Hi Rocky: Your my type of guy...programmer that is. It you didn't love programming you would not doing it...it sure isn't for the money... but who knows? Just one lucky break. Jim -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Rocky Smolin - Beach Access Software Sent: Tuesday, March 30, 2004 2:49 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] OT: A survey from somebody not as well-connected as JC Andy: Don't envy me. They jury's still out. I've got a bit of a buffer so we won't miss any meals, but that can't go on forever. I've had two good products and several bad ones. At least this time I'm starting in an economy that's on the upswing. But I've always been a bootstrap kind of guy - we're doing a mailing in San Diego county this month. Hopefully snag two or three systems. Then use that money to mail again in another county. Build it up slowly. Instead of mortgaging the house. I'm still doing some fee-for-service as well. So that keeps some of the lights on. It's a high wire act for sure. But when it does work, it's a thing of beauty. Rocky > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Andy Lacey > Sent: Tuesday, March 30, 2004 1:18 PM > To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' > Subject: RE: [AccessD] OT: A survey from somebody not as well-connected > as JC > > > I envy Rocky (sort of) but won't be trying to emulate him. Been there, tried > that, and failed. Problem with the product thing is that you have to > metamorphose from developer into marketer, and I couldn't. Not my thing at > all. Plus IME it involves sinking money into advertising, mailing, > brochures, websites nd so on. You have to be prepared to risk big outlay > against no guarantee of return. Done that 2 or 3 times to great cost and no > great return. Won't be doing it again. > > -- Andy Lacey > http://www.minstersystems.co.uk > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of > > Steven W. Erbach > > Sent: 30 March 2004 04:16 > > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > > Subject: Re: [AccessD] OT: A survey from somebody not as > > well-connected as JC > > > > > > William, > > > > >> ...don't take this the wrong way << > > > > I won't. I appreciate your point of view. I have gotten > > caught up in the tools as if owning the right brand of socket > > wrench will guarantee me a living. > > > > But I hear you on the client-centered approach. I've worked > > on lots of things that were outside of my skill-set comfort zone. > > > > I talked with a friend recently about my business and he > > asked if there was anything I specialized in. I told him no; > > my business is producing custom solutions to solve customer > > problems. He recommended a product-centered approach, like > > what Rocky is aiming for. I have a long-term care facility > > marketing and donations program I wrote that might fill the > > bill. We'll see. > > > > >> ...but I'm just me and don't have any intention of ever > > working hard > > >> again << > > > > Not really an option for me as we're having some tough times > > financially. I can dig the varietal nature of your work, > > though. Thanks. > > > > Regards, > > > > Steve Erbach > > Scientific Marketing > > Neenah, WI > > > > "You must be an intellectual. No normal person would say a > > thing like that." - George Orwell > > > > -- > > _______________________________________________ > > AccessD mailing list > > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/a> ccessd > > Website: > > http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > > > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From bchacc at san.rr.com Tue Mar 30 22:37:00 2004 From: bchacc at san.rr.com (Rocky Smolin - Beach Access Software) Date: Tue, 30 Mar 2004 20:37:00 -0800 Subject: [AccessD] OT: A survey from somebody not as well-connected as JC References: <000b01c416d7$65152200$6401a8c0@user> Message-ID: <036101c416d9$cf1cec30$6601a8c0@HAL9002> Obstacles are what you see when you take your eye off the goal. I NEVER look at the competition. Rocky ----- Original Message ----- From: "Kath Pelletti" To: "Access Developers discussion and problem solving" Sent: Tuesday, March 30, 2004 8:19 PM Subject: Re: [AccessD] OT: A survey from somebody not as well-connected as JC .......all the time: http://www.pavan.org/. This is a representative example. Unbelievable. Kath ----- Original Message ----- From: Jim Lawrence (AccessD) To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Sent: Wednesday, March 31, 2004 2:14 PM Subject: RE: [AccessD] OT: A survey from somebody not as well-connected as JC Hi All: Unfortunately, I think the era of writing a good program and subsequently living of its' sales, is past. Too many companies have created applications for every market and will sell the results for just 2 or 3 hundred dollars, just to scrap by. There is no support but the general public has come to expect that. In no small part, Microsoft has contributed to it. In one scenario, within a government department, consisting of 300 plus stations, it took three full-time personnel just to support the site. Now, it takes four full-time contractors to support whole Ministers, consisting of 6500 plus stations. Over 20 times the level of productivity and service, on an OSs that has software, imbedded (free), that would have added together, a few years ago, to an estimated 10,000 dollars and the system sells for $250.00. What happened to all those small flourishing companies, that supplied the markets with custom apps and utilities? Instead of fixing a computer or modifying (hacking) a piece or group of software package into working in concert, it is easier and cheaper to dump the old stuff, buy a few $500 dollar boxes, with XP on them and get the secretaries' son to parl? together a barely functional Access DB. If the worse comes to the worse you can always contract, at ten bucks an hour, some third rate database guy or a first rate foreign programmer. Don't believe me; then check this out, as I get these type of emails all the time: http://www.pavan.org/. This is a representative example. You can create a good programming business but you have to work long and hard and be as equally good salesperson as programmer. If you are willing to make sacrifices, stay in for the long haul and strive towards developing customer loyalty, I think there are still opportunities... but it ain't the eighties or nineties anymore. If you really love making great software, enjoy chatting with your clients (...and for you young guys and gals that does not mean getting to know the client's secretary or the fellow in shipping...) and are not obsessed with money, this is where you should be. Now if you want my opinion...just ask. :-) What is yours? Jim -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Kath Pelletti Sent: Tuesday, March 30, 2004 1:50 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] OT: A survey from somebody not as well-connected as JC So true - I think being a salesperson is either in the blood or not...and I don't seem to have that gene either......on the other hand if you know that what you are selling is *great* then maybe..... The other thing is the cost of stuff online. I recently developed a system for my husband's wholesale travel business - to produce quotations p/passenger and all that stuff - took ages as it is customised. Try selling that online - there are systems there being offered for $US300 - I wouldn't be willing to support anything for that money. (By the way - Drew - put me down as a sayer). Kath ----- Original Message ----- From: Andy Lacey To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Sent: Wednesday, March 31, 2004 5:17 AM Subject: RE: [AccessD] OT: A survey from somebody not as well-connected as JC I envy Rocky (sort of) but won't be trying to emulate him. Been there, tried that, and failed. Problem with the product thing is that you have to metamorphose from developer into marketer, and I couldn't. Not my thing at all. Plus IME it involves sinking money into advertising, mailing, brochures, websites nd so on. You have to be prepared to risk big outlay against no guarantee of return. Done that 2 or 3 times to great cost and no great return. Won't be doing it again. -- Andy Lacey http://www.minstersystems.co.uk > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of > Steven W. Erbach > Sent: 30 March 2004 04:16 > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: Re: [AccessD] OT: A survey from somebody not as > well-connected as JC > > > William, > > >> ...don't take this the wrong way << > > I won't. I appreciate your point of view. I have gotten > caught up in the tools as if owning the right brand of socket > wrench will guarantee me a living. > > But I hear you on the client-centered approach. I've worked > on lots of things that were outside of my skill-set comfort zone. > > I talked with a friend recently about my business and he > asked if there was anything I specialized in. I told him no; > my business is producing custom solutions to solve customer > problems. He recommended a product-centered approach, like > what Rocky is aiming for. I have a long-term care facility > marketing and donations program I wrote that might fill the > bill. We'll see. > > >> ...but I'm just me and don't have any intention of ever > working hard > >> again << > > Not really an option for me as we're having some tough times > financially. I can dig the varietal nature of your work, > though. Thanks. > > Regards, > > Steve Erbach > Scientific Marketing > Neenah, WI > > "You must be an intellectual. No normal person would say a > thing like that." - George Orwell > > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/a> ccessd > Website: > http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From bchacc at san.rr.com Tue Mar 30 22:39:13 2004 From: bchacc at san.rr.com (Rocky Smolin - Beach Access Software) Date: Tue, 30 Mar 2004 20:39:13 -0800 Subject: [AccessD] OT: A survey from somebody not as well-connected as JC References: <026501c416a9$24181a60$6601a8c0@HAL9002> <001901c416aa$abe96e70$6401a8c0@user> <02cf01c416b0$af86d1c0$6601a8c0@HAL9002> <001b01c416d7$f95da4a0$6401a8c0@user> Message-ID: <036701c416da$1e2c5540$6601a8c0@HAL9002> Sure. I estimate it will take to the end of the year before I see any real results. I've got another product cooking as well - analyzes sleep disorders. Been working on it with an expert in the field for 4-5 years (not continuously, of course). Might be able to launch it this year. Do you want to be a beta tester? Rocky ----- Original Message ----- From: "Kath Pelletti" To: "Access Developers discussion and problem solving" Sent: Tuesday, March 30, 2004 8:23 PM Subject: Re: [AccessD] OT: A survey from somebody not as well-connected as JC Well I wish you the very best of luck...can you let us know how the sales go? Kath ----- Original Message ----- From: Rocky Smolin - Beach Access Software To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Sent: Wednesday, March 31, 2004 9:42 AM Subject: Re: [AccessD] OT: A survey from somebody not as well-connected as JC Kath: In the 'old' days when I was flogging this package in DOS, I thought that some of them would be sold by word of mouth, people seeing it, or the reports that got passed around (which all had my company name in the footer). So I always wanted everyone to have the latest version. So I didn't charge for it. It was in my self-interest to have them use the most recent release. And I'm still going to keep to that policy for this new version. If I add a module, like Order Entry, everybody will get it at no cost. With distribution by web, there really is no overhead cost to me to distribute it. And good product sells more product. I promote the product support as a 'free phone in consulting service on any question related to the software OR manufacturing systems' for the first year, and $300 a year after that (about 10% of the purchase price). In the past I had a lot of conversations with people about manufacturing issues - how to structure a bill of materials, how to make up a part numbering scheme, how to solve a particular work order problem, etc - and very few questions about how to actually run the software. This added a LOT of value to the product and didn't really take very much time. The key is to make a product which is so user stupid that anybody who can read and count to 20 can run it. Then you don't get the same question 20 times a day, like 'how do I run a costed inventory report?'. If a user doesn't want to pay the yearly maintenance then they don't get the phone support. I could tell them they don't get the new releases as well but that works against me salewise. Many people didn't pay for the support after the first couple of years because they never called me for anything. The other key, of course, it goes without saying, is to make the product so solid that it doesn't generate bugs and errors. Then you don't get any support calls. BTW - I'm not a marketer or salesy type person, either. But if you have something you believe in it's not really selling. And I really believe in this product (why not, I invented it?). I just present the product and if they like it fine. They buy it. If not, it's like pushing on a string. I always wanted people to feel like they got more than they expected and when you sell hard you overhype, raise expectations, and end up with customers who expect more than you have to give. When people buy E-Z-MRP they feel like they just bought a dollar for fifty cents. That makes selling a lot easier, too. I suppose that's why I'm successful but not rich. :) HTH Rocky Smolin Beach Access Software http://www.e-z-mrp.com ----- Original Message ----- From: "Kath Pelletti" To: "Access Developers discussion and problem solving" Sent: Tuesday, March 30, 2004 2:59 PM Subject: Re: [AccessD] OT: A survey from somebody not as well-connected as JC Rocky - out of interest - what support arrangements / fees are you offering? Kath ----- Original Message ----- From: Rocky Smolin - Beach Access Software To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Sent: Wednesday, March 31, 2004 8:48 AM Subject: Re: [AccessD] OT: A survey from somebody not as well-connected as JC Andy: Don't envy me. They jury's still out. I've got a bit of a buffer so we won't miss any meals, but that can't go on forever. I've had two good products and several bad ones. At least this time I'm starting in an economy that's on the upswing. But I've always been a bootstrap kind of guy - we're doing a mailing in San Diego county this month. Hopefully snag two or three systems. Then use that money to mail again in another county. Build it up slowly. Instead of mortgaging the house. I'm still doing some fee-for-service as well. So that keeps some of the lights on. It's a high wire act for sure. But when it does work, it's a thing of beauty. Rocky > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Andy Lacey > Sent: Tuesday, March 30, 2004 1:18 PM > To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' > Subject: RE: [AccessD] OT: A survey from somebody not as well-connected > as JC > > > I envy Rocky (sort of) but won't be trying to emulate him. Been there, tried > that, and failed. Problem with the product thing is that you have to > metamorphose from developer into marketer, and I couldn't. Not my thing at > all. Plus IME it involves sinking money into advertising, mailing, > brochures, websites nd so on. You have to be prepared to risk big outlay > against no guarantee of return. Done that 2 or 3 times to great cost and no > great return. Won't be doing it again. > > -- Andy Lacey > http://www.minstersystems.co.uk > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of > > Steven W. Erbach > > Sent: 30 March 2004 04:16 > > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > > Subject: Re: [AccessD] OT: A survey from somebody not as > > well-connected as JC > > > > > > William, > > > > >> ...don't take this the wrong way << > > > > I won't. I appreciate your point of view. I have gotten > > caught up in the tools as if owning the right brand of socket > > wrench will guarantee me a living. > > > > But I hear you on the client-centered approach. I've worked > > on lots of things that were outside of my skill-set comfort zone. > > > > I talked with a friend recently about my business and he > > asked if there was anything I specialized in. I told him no; > > my business is producing custom solutions to solve customer > > problems. He recommended a product-centered approach, like > > what Rocky is aiming for. I have a long-term care facility > > marketing and donations program I wrote that might fill the > > bill. We'll see. > > > > >> ...but I'm just me and don't have any intention of ever > > working hard > > >> again << > > > > Not really an option for me as we're having some tough times > > financially. I can dig the varietal nature of your work, > > though. Thanks. > > > > Regards, > > > > Steve Erbach > > Scientific Marketing > > Neenah, WI > > > > "You must be an intellectual. No normal person would say a > > thing like that." - George Orwell > > > > -- > > _______________________________________________ > > AccessD mailing list > > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/a> ccessd > > Website: > > http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > > > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From SDSSoftware at optusnet.com.au Tue Mar 30 22:46:14 2004 From: SDSSoftware at optusnet.com.au (Kath Pelletti) Date: Wed, 31 Mar 2004 14:46:14 +1000 Subject: [AccessD] OT: Independent developers discussion References: <026501c416a9$24181a60$6601a8c0@HAL9002><001901c416aa$abe96e70$6401a8c0@user><02cf01c416b0$af86d1c0$6601a8c0@HAL9002><001b01c416d7$f95da4a0$6401a8c0@user> <036701c416da$1e2c5540$6601a8c0@HAL9002> Message-ID: <003301c416db$18f62550$6401a8c0@user> If you let me know off list what you need I would love to help if I can. ----- Original Message ----- From: Rocky Smolin - Beach Access Software To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Sent: Wednesday, March 31, 2004 2:39 PM Subject: Re: [AccessD] OT: A survey from somebody not as well-connected as JC Sure. I estimate it will take to the end of the year before I see any real results. I've got another product cooking as well - analyzes sleep disorders. Been working on it with an expert in the field for 4-5 years (not continuously, of course). Might be able to launch it this year. Do you want to be a beta tester? Rocky ----- Original Message ----- From: "Kath Pelletti" To: "Access Developers discussion and problem solving" Sent: Tuesday, March 30, 2004 8:23 PM Subject: Re: [AccessD] OT: A survey from somebody not as well-connected as JC Well I wish you the very best of luck...can you let us know how the sales go? Kath ----- Original Message ----- From: Rocky Smolin - Beach Access Software To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Sent: Wednesday, March 31, 2004 9:42 AM Subject: Re: [AccessD] OT: A survey from somebody not as well-connected as JC Kath: In the 'old' days when I was flogging this package in DOS, I thought that some of them would be sold by word of mouth, people seeing it, or the reports that got passed around (which all had my company name in the footer). So I always wanted everyone to have the latest version. So I didn't charge for it. It was in my self-interest to have them use the most recent release. And I'm still going to keep to that policy for this new version. If I add a module, like Order Entry, everybody will get it at no cost. With distribution by web, there really is no overhead cost to me to distribute it. And good product sells more product. I promote the product support as a 'free phone in consulting service on any question related to the software OR manufacturing systems' for the first year, and $300 a year after that (about 10% of the purchase price). In the past I had a lot of conversations with people about manufacturing issues - how to structure a bill of materials, how to make up a part numbering scheme, how to solve a particular work order problem, etc - and very few questions about how to actually run the software. This added a LOT of value to the product and didn't really take very much time. The key is to make a product which is so user stupid that anybody who can read and count to 20 can run it. Then you don't get the same question 20 times a day, like 'how do I run a costed inventory report?'. If a user doesn't want to pay the yearly maintenance then they don't get the phone support. I could tell them they don't get the new releases as well but that works against me salewise. Many people didn't pay for the support after the first couple of years because they never called me for anything. The other key, of course, it goes without saying, is to make the product so solid that it doesn't generate bugs and errors. Then you don't get any support calls. BTW - I'm not a marketer or salesy type person, either. But if you have something you believe in it's not really selling. And I really believe in this product (why not, I invented it?). I just present the product and if they like it fine. They buy it. If not, it's like pushing on a string. I always wanted people to feel like they got more than they expected and when you sell hard you overhype, raise expectations, and end up with customers who expect more than you have to give. When people buy E-Z-MRP they feel like they just bought a dollar for fifty cents. That makes selling a lot easier, too. I suppose that's why I'm successful but not rich. :) HTH Rocky Smolin Beach Access Software http://www.e-z-mrp.com ----- Original Message ----- From: "Kath Pelletti" To: "Access Developers discussion and problem solving" Sent: Tuesday, March 30, 2004 2:59 PM Subject: Re: [AccessD] OT: A survey from somebody not as well-connected as JC Rocky - out of interest - what support arrangements / fees are you offering? Kath ----- Original Message ----- From: Rocky Smolin - Beach Access Software To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Sent: Wednesday, March 31, 2004 8:48 AM Subject: Re: [AccessD] OT: A survey from somebody not as well-connected as JC Andy: Don't envy me. They jury's still out. I've got a bit of a buffer so we won't miss any meals, but that can't go on forever. I've had two good products and several bad ones. At least this time I'm starting in an economy that's on the upswing. But I've always been a bootstrap kind of guy - we're doing a mailing in San Diego county this month. Hopefully snag two or three systems. Then use that money to mail again in another county. Build it up slowly. Instead of mortgaging the house. I'm still doing some fee-for-service as well. So that keeps some of the lights on. It's a high wire act for sure. But when it does work, it's a thing of beauty. Rocky > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Andy Lacey > Sent: Tuesday, March 30, 2004 1:18 PM > To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' > Subject: RE: [AccessD] OT: A survey from somebody not as well-connected > as JC > > > I envy Rocky (sort of) but won't be trying to emulate him. Been there, tried > that, and failed. Problem with the product thing is that you have to > metamorphose from developer into marketer, and I couldn't. Not my thing at > all. Plus IME it involves sinking money into advertising, mailing, > brochures, websites nd so on. You have to be prepared to risk big outlay > against no guarantee of return. Done that 2 or 3 times to great cost and no > great return. Won't be doing it again. > > -- Andy Lacey > http://www.minstersystems.co.uk > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of > > Steven W. Erbach > > Sent: 30 March 2004 04:16 > > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > > Subject: Re: [AccessD] OT: A survey from somebody not as > > well-connected as JC > > > > > > William, > > > > >> ...don't take this the wrong way << > > > > I won't. I appreciate your point of view. I have gotten > > caught up in the tools as if owning the right brand of socket > > wrench will guarantee me a living. > > > > But I hear you on the client-centered approach. I've worked > > on lots of things that were outside of my skill-set comfort zone. > > > > I talked with a friend recently about my business and he > > asked if there was anything I specialized in. I told him no; > > my business is producing custom solutions to solve customer > > problems. He recommended a product-centered approach, like > > what Rocky is aiming for. I have a long-term care facility > > marketing and donations program I wrote that might fill the > > bill. We'll see. > > > > >> ...but I'm just me and don't have any intention of ever > > working hard > > >> again << > > > > Not really an option for me as we're having some tough times > > financially. I can dig the varietal nature of your work, > > though. Thanks. > > > > Regards, > > > > Steve Erbach > > Scientific Marketing > > Neenah, WI > > > > "You must be an intellectual. No normal person would say a > > thing like that." - George Orwell > > > > -- > > _______________________________________________ > > AccessD mailing list > > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/a> ccessd > > Website: > > http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > > > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From SDSSoftware at optusnet.com.au Tue Mar 30 22:46:23 2004 From: SDSSoftware at optusnet.com.au (Kath Pelletti) Date: Wed, 31 Mar 2004 14:46:23 +1000 Subject: [AccessD] OT: A survey from somebody not as well-connected as JC References: <000b01c416d7$65152200$6401a8c0@user> <036101c416d9$cf1cec30$6601a8c0@HAL9002> Message-ID: <003701c416db$1e6f5c40$6401a8c0@user> Look - it's not really even competition, in my view. Recently when I was tendering out for some work to be subcontracted in Lotus Notes, I was inundated with offers from India even though I specified that I wanted someone local. Being able to sit at the same table and establish some sort of a relationship with the client is crucial. *Virtual service* is too ethereal. But if you are selling overseas maybe this is an issue. Kath ----- Original Message ----- From: Rocky Smolin - Beach Access Software To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Sent: Wednesday, March 31, 2004 2:37 PM Subject: Re: [AccessD] OT: A survey from somebody not as well-connected as JC Obstacles are what you see when you take your eye off the goal. I NEVER look at the competition. Rocky ----- Original Message ----- From: "Kath Pelletti" To: "Access Developers discussion and problem solving" Sent: Tuesday, March 30, 2004 8:19 PM Subject: Re: [AccessD] OT: A survey from somebody not as well-connected as JC .......all the time: http://www.pavan.org/. This is a representative example. Unbelievable. Kath ----- Original Message ----- From: Jim Lawrence (AccessD) To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Sent: Wednesday, March 31, 2004 2:14 PM Subject: RE: [AccessD] OT: A survey from somebody not as well-connected as JC Hi All: Unfortunately, I think the era of writing a good program and subsequently living of its' sales, is past. Too many companies have created applications for every market and will sell the results for just 2 or 3 hundred dollars, just to scrap by. There is no support but the general public has come to expect that. In no small part, Microsoft has contributed to it. In one scenario, within a government department, consisting of 300 plus stations, it took three full-time personnel just to support the site. Now, it takes four full-time contractors to support whole Ministers, consisting of 6500 plus stations. Over 20 times the level of productivity and service, on an OSs that has software, imbedded (free), that would have added together, a few years ago, to an estimated 10,000 dollars and the system sells for $250.00. What happened to all those small flourishing companies, that supplied the markets with custom apps and utilities? Instead of fixing a computer or modifying (hacking) a piece or group of software package into working in concert, it is easier and cheaper to dump the old stuff, buy a few $500 dollar boxes, with XP on them and get the secretaries' son to parl? together a barely functional Access DB. If the worse comes to the worse you can always contract, at ten bucks an hour, some third rate database guy or a first rate foreign programmer. Don't believe me; then check this out, as I get these type of emails all the time: http://www.pavan.org/. This is a representative example. You can create a good programming business but you have to work long and hard and be as equally good salesperson as programmer. If you are willing to make sacrifices, stay in for the long haul and strive towards developing customer loyalty, I think there are still opportunities... but it ain't the eighties or nineties anymore. If you really love making great software, enjoy chatting with your clients (...and for you young guys and gals that does not mean getting to know the client's secretary or the fellow in shipping...) and are not obsessed with money, this is where you should be. Now if you want my opinion...just ask. :-) What is yours? Jim -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Kath Pelletti Sent: Tuesday, March 30, 2004 1:50 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] OT: A survey from somebody not as well-connected as JC So true - I think being a salesperson is either in the blood or not...and I don't seem to have that gene either......on the other hand if you know that what you are selling is *great* then maybe..... The other thing is the cost of stuff online. I recently developed a system for my husband's wholesale travel business - to produce quotations p/passenger and all that stuff - took ages as it is customised. Try selling that online - there are systems there being offered for $US300 - I wouldn't be willing to support anything for that money. (By the way - Drew - put me down as a sayer). Kath ----- Original Message ----- From: Andy Lacey To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Sent: Wednesday, March 31, 2004 5:17 AM Subject: RE: [AccessD] OT: A survey from somebody not as well-connected as JC I envy Rocky (sort of) but won't be trying to emulate him. Been there, tried that, and failed. Problem with the product thing is that you have to metamorphose from developer into marketer, and I couldn't. Not my thing at all. Plus IME it involves sinking money into advertising, mailing, brochures, websites nd so on. You have to be prepared to risk big outlay against no guarantee of return. Done that 2 or 3 times to great cost and no great return. Won't be doing it again. -- Andy Lacey http://www.minstersystems.co.uk > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of > Steven W. Erbach > Sent: 30 March 2004 04:16 > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: Re: [AccessD] OT: A survey from somebody not as > well-connected as JC > > > William, > > >> ...don't take this the wrong way << > > I won't. I appreciate your point of view. I have gotten > caught up in the tools as if owning the right brand of socket > wrench will guarantee me a living. > > But I hear you on the client-centered approach. I've worked > on lots of things that were outside of my skill-set comfort zone. > > I talked with a friend recently about my business and he > asked if there was anything I specialized in. I told him no; > my business is producing custom solutions to solve customer > problems. He recommended a product-centered approach, like > what Rocky is aiming for. I have a long-term care facility > marketing and donations program I wrote that might fill the > bill. We'll see. > > >> ...but I'm just me and don't have any intention of ever > working hard > >> again << > > Not really an option for me as we're having some tough times > financially. I can dig the varietal nature of your work, > though. Thanks. > > Regards, > > Steve Erbach > Scientific Marketing > Neenah, WI > > "You must be an intellectual. No normal person would say a > thing like that." - George Orwell > > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/a> ccessd > Website: > http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From john at winhaven.net Tue Mar 30 22:55:43 2004 From: john at winhaven.net (John Bartow) Date: Tue, 30 Mar 2004 22:55:43 -0600 Subject: [AccessD] OT: A survey from somebody not as well-connected as JC In-Reply-To: <036701c416da$1e2c5540$6601a8c0@HAL9002> Message-ID: Good thing my wife doesn't read this or she'd order a copy to analyze me right now :o) -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Rocky Smolin - Beach Access Software Sent: Tuesday, March 30, 2004 10:39 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] OT: A survey from somebody not as well-connected as JC Sure. I estimate it will take to the end of the year before I see any real results. I've got another product cooking as well - analyzes sleep disorders. Been working on it with an expert in the field for 4-5 years (not continuously, of course). Might be able to launch it this year. Do you want to be a beta tester? Rocky ----- Original Message ----- From: "Kath Pelletti" To: "Access Developers discussion and problem solving" Sent: Tuesday, March 30, 2004 8:23 PM Subject: Re: [AccessD] OT: A survey from somebody not as well-connected as JC Well I wish you the very best of luck...can you let us know how the sales go? Kath ----- Original Message ----- From: Rocky Smolin - Beach Access Software To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Sent: Wednesday, March 31, 2004 9:42 AM Subject: Re: [AccessD] OT: A survey from somebody not as well-connected as JC Kath: In the 'old' days when I was flogging this package in DOS, I thought that some of them would be sold by word of mouth, people seeing it, or the reports that got passed around (which all had my company name in the footer). So I always wanted everyone to have the latest version. So I didn't charge for it. It was in my self-interest to have them use the most recent release. And I'm still going to keep to that policy for this new version. If I add a module, like Order Entry, everybody will get it at no cost. With distribution by web, there really is no overhead cost to me to distribute it. And good product sells more product. I promote the product support as a 'free phone in consulting service on any question related to the software OR manufacturing systems' for the first year, and $300 a year after that (about 10% of the purchase price). In the past I had a lot of conversations with people about manufacturing issues - how to structure a bill of materials, how to make up a part numbering scheme, how to solve a particular work order problem, etc - and very few questions about how to actually run the software. This added a LOT of value to the product and didn't really take very much time. The key is to make a product which is so user stupid that anybody who can read and count to 20 can run it. Then you don't get the same question 20 times a day, like 'how do I run a costed inventory report?'. If a user doesn't want to pay the yearly maintenance then they don't get the phone support. I could tell them they don't get the new releases as well but that works against me salewise. Many people didn't pay for the support after the first couple of years because they never called me for anything. The other key, of course, it goes without saying, is to make the product so solid that it doesn't generate bugs and errors. Then you don't get any support calls. BTW - I'm not a marketer or salesy type person, either. But if you have something you believe in it's not really selling. And I really believe in this product (why not, I invented it?). I just present the product and if they like it fine. They buy it. If not, it's like pushing on a string. I always wanted people to feel like they got more than they expected and when you sell hard you overhype, raise expectations, and end up with customers who expect more than you have to give. When people buy E-Z-MRP they feel like they just bought a dollar for fifty cents. That makes selling a lot easier, too. I suppose that's why I'm successful but not rich. :) HTH Rocky Smolin Beach Access Software http://www.e-z-mrp.com ----- Original Message ----- From: "Kath Pelletti" To: "Access Developers discussion and problem solving" Sent: Tuesday, March 30, 2004 2:59 PM Subject: Re: [AccessD] OT: A survey from somebody not as well-connected as JC Rocky - out of interest - what support arrangements / fees are you offering? Kath ----- Original Message ----- From: Rocky Smolin - Beach Access Software To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Sent: Wednesday, March 31, 2004 8:48 AM Subject: Re: [AccessD] OT: A survey from somebody not as well-connected as JC Andy: Don't envy me. They jury's still out. I've got a bit of a buffer so we won't miss any meals, but that can't go on forever. I've had two good products and several bad ones. At least this time I'm starting in an economy that's on the upswing. But I've always been a bootstrap kind of guy - we're doing a mailing in San Diego county this month. Hopefully snag two or three systems. Then use that money to mail again in another county. Build it up slowly. Instead of mortgaging the house. I'm still doing some fee-for-service as well. So that keeps some of the lights on. It's a high wire act for sure. But when it does work, it's a thing of beauty. Rocky > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Andy Lacey > Sent: Tuesday, March 30, 2004 1:18 PM > To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' > Subject: RE: [AccessD] OT: A survey from somebody not as well-connected > as JC > > > I envy Rocky (sort of) but won't be trying to emulate him. Been there, tried > that, and failed. Problem with the product thing is that you have to > metamorphose from developer into marketer, and I couldn't. Not my thing at > all. Plus IME it involves sinking money into advertising, mailing, > brochures, websites nd so on. You have to be prepared to risk big outlay > against no guarantee of return. Done that 2 or 3 times to great cost and no > great return. Won't be doing it again. > > -- Andy Lacey > http://www.minstersystems.co.uk > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of > > Steven W. Erbach > > Sent: 30 March 2004 04:16 > > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > > Subject: Re: [AccessD] OT: A survey from somebody not as > > well-connected as JC > > > > > > William, > > > > >> ...don't take this the wrong way << > > > > I won't. I appreciate your point of view. I have gotten > > caught up in the tools as if owning the right brand of socket > > wrench will guarantee me a living. > > > > But I hear you on the client-centered approach. I've worked > > on lots of things that were outside of my skill-set comfort zone. > > > > I talked with a friend recently about my business and he > > asked if there was anything I specialized in. I told him no; > > my business is producing custom solutions to solve customer > > problems. He recommended a product-centered approach, like > > what Rocky is aiming for. I have a long-term care facility > > marketing and donations program I wrote that might fill the > > bill. We'll see. > > > > >> ...but I'm just me and don't have any intention of ever > > working hard > > >> again << > > > > Not really an option for me as we're having some tough times > > financially. I can dig the varietal nature of your work, > > though. Thanks. > > > > Regards, > > > > Steve Erbach > > Scientific Marketing > > Neenah, WI > > > > "You must be an intellectual. No normal person would say a > > thing like that." - George Orwell > > > > -- > > _______________________________________________ > > AccessD mailing list > > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/a> ccessd > > Website: > > http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > > > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From SDSSoftware at optusnet.com.au Tue Mar 30 23:01:46 2004 From: SDSSoftware at optusnet.com.au (Kath Pelletti) Date: Wed, 31 Mar 2004 15:01:46 +1000 Subject: [AccessD] OT: Independant developer discussion References: <026501c416a9$24181a60$6601a8c0@HAL9002><001901c416aa$abe96e70$6401a8c0@user><02cf01c416b0$af86d1c0$6601a8c0@HAL9002><001b01c416d7$f95da4a0$6401a8c0@user> <036701c416da$1e2c5540$6601a8c0@HAL9002> Message-ID: <005f01c416dd$44770210$6401a8c0@user> ......and you could always ask Pavan about his rate for testing....! ----- Original Message ----- From: Rocky Smolin - Beach Access Software To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Sent: Wednesday, March 31, 2004 2:39 PM Subject: Re: [AccessD] OT: A survey from somebody not as well-connected as JC Sure. I estimate it will take to the end of the year before I see any real results. I've got another product cooking as well - analyzes sleep disorders. Been working on it with an expert in the field for 4-5 years (not continuously, of course). Might be able to launch it this year. Do you want to be a beta tester? Rocky ----- Original Message ----- From: "Kath Pelletti" To: "Access Developers discussion and problem solving" Sent: Tuesday, March 30, 2004 8:23 PM Subject: Re: [AccessD] OT: A survey from somebody not as well-connected as JC Well I wish you the very best of luck...can you let us know how the sales go? Kath ----- Original Message ----- From: Rocky Smolin - Beach Access Software To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Sent: Wednesday, March 31, 2004 9:42 AM Subject: Re: [AccessD] OT: A survey from somebody not as well-connected as JC Kath: In the 'old' days when I was flogging this package in DOS, I thought that some of them would be sold by word of mouth, people seeing it, or the reports that got passed around (which all had my company name in the footer). So I always wanted everyone to have the latest version. So I didn't charge for it. It was in my self-interest to have them use the most recent release. And I'm still going to keep to that policy for this new version. If I add a module, like Order Entry, everybody will get it at no cost. With distribution by web, there really is no overhead cost to me to distribute it. And good product sells more product. I promote the product support as a 'free phone in consulting service on any question related to the software OR manufacturing systems' for the first year, and $300 a year after that (about 10% of the purchase price). In the past I had a lot of conversations with people about manufacturing issues - how to structure a bill of materials, how to make up a part numbering scheme, how to solve a particular work order problem, etc - and very few questions about how to actually run the software. This added a LOT of value to the product and didn't really take very much time. The key is to make a product which is so user stupid that anybody who can read and count to 20 can run it. Then you don't get the same question 20 times a day, like 'how do I run a costed inventory report?'. If a user doesn't want to pay the yearly maintenance then they don't get the phone support. I could tell them they don't get the new releases as well but that works against me salewise. Many people didn't pay for the support after the first couple of years because they never called me for anything. The other key, of course, it goes without saying, is to make the product so solid that it doesn't generate bugs and errors. Then you don't get any support calls. BTW - I'm not a marketer or salesy type person, either. But if you have something you believe in it's not really selling. And I really believe in this product (why not, I invented it?). I just present the product and if they like it fine. They buy it. If not, it's like pushing on a string. I always wanted people to feel like they got more than they expected and when you sell hard you overhype, raise expectations, and end up with customers who expect more than you have to give. When people buy E-Z-MRP they feel like they just bought a dollar for fifty cents. That makes selling a lot easier, too. I suppose that's why I'm successful but not rich. :) HTH Rocky Smolin Beach Access Software http://www.e-z-mrp.com ----- Original Message ----- From: "Kath Pelletti" To: "Access Developers discussion and problem solving" Sent: Tuesday, March 30, 2004 2:59 PM Subject: Re: [AccessD] OT: A survey from somebody not as well-connected as JC Rocky - out of interest - what support arrangements / fees are you offering? Kath ----- Original Message ----- From: Rocky Smolin - Beach Access Software To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Sent: Wednesday, March 31, 2004 8:48 AM Subject: Re: [AccessD] OT: A survey from somebody not as well-connected as JC Andy: Don't envy me. They jury's still out. I've got a bit of a buffer so we won't miss any meals, but that can't go on forever. I've had two good products and several bad ones. At least this time I'm starting in an economy that's on the upswing. But I've always been a bootstrap kind of guy - we're doing a mailing in San Diego county this month. Hopefully snag two or three systems. Then use that money to mail again in another county. Build it up slowly. Instead of mortgaging the house. I'm still doing some fee-for-service as well. So that keeps some of the lights on. It's a high wire act for sure. But when it does work, it's a thing of beauty. Rocky > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Andy Lacey > Sent: Tuesday, March 30, 2004 1:18 PM > To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' > Subject: RE: [AccessD] OT: A survey from somebody not as well-connected > as JC > > > I envy Rocky (sort of) but won't be trying to emulate him. Been there, tried > that, and failed. Problem with the product thing is that you have to > metamorphose from developer into marketer, and I couldn't. Not my thing at > all. Plus IME it involves sinking money into advertising, mailing, > brochures, websites nd so on. You have to be prepared to risk big outlay > against no guarantee of return. Done that 2 or 3 times to great cost and no > great return. Won't be doing it again. > > -- Andy Lacey > http://www.minstersystems.co.uk > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of > > Steven W. Erbach > > Sent: 30 March 2004 04:16 > > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > > Subject: Re: [AccessD] OT: A survey from somebody not as > > well-connected as JC > > > > > > William, > > > > >> ...don't take this the wrong way << > > > > I won't. I appreciate your point of view. I have gotten > > caught up in the tools as if owning the right brand of socket > > wrench will guarantee me a living. > > > > But I hear you on the client-centered approach. I've worked > > on lots of things that were outside of my skill-set comfort zone. > > > > I talked with a friend recently about my business and he > > asked if there was anything I specialized in. I told him no; > > my business is producing custom solutions to solve customer > > problems. He recommended a product-centered approach, like > > what Rocky is aiming for. I have a long-term care facility > > marketing and donations program I wrote that might fill the > > bill. We'll see. > > > > >> ...but I'm just me and don't have any intention of ever > > working hard > > >> again << > > > > Not really an option for me as we're having some tough times > > financially. I can dig the varietal nature of your work, > > though. Thanks. > > > > Regards, > > > > Steve Erbach > > Scientific Marketing > > Neenah, WI > > > > "You must be an intellectual. No normal person would say a > > thing like that." - George Orwell > > > > -- > > _______________________________________________ > > AccessD mailing list > > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/a> ccessd > > Website: > > http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > > > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From bchacc at san.rr.com Wed Mar 31 00:01:37 2004 From: bchacc at san.rr.com (Rocky Smolin - Beach Access Software) Date: Tue, 30 Mar 2004 22:01:37 -0800 Subject: [AccessD] OT: A survey from somebody not as well-connected as JC References: Message-ID: <036f01c416e5$a11c6110$6601a8c0@HAL9002> My first luck came when I was 16 and my mother spotted an ad for weekend courses in programming for high school students at the Illinois Institute of Technology in Chicago (c. 1964). Asked me if I'd like to do it. Not just lucky because it's been a great professional field to be in, but because I always knew what I wanted to do which saved a lot of thrashing around trying to pick a major and a career and all that. I'm still a little surprised sometimes that folks will push money at me do to this. And I'll bet I'm not alone on this list. But I have to tell you (at the risk of incurring the moderator's wrath) that without this list I'd be lost. I started a business with another guy (not a programmer) and had to write the software to run it in Access. My first Access app. It was huge. Survey processing with lots of graphics. The list saved my bacon twice a day. Okay. I'm done. Rocky Rocky ----- Original Message ----- From: "Jim Lawrence (AccessD)" To: "Access Developers discussion and problem solving" Sent: Tuesday, March 30, 2004 8:26 PM Subject: RE: [AccessD] OT: A survey from somebody not as well-connected as JC > Hi Rocky: > > Your my type of guy...programmer that is. It you didn't love programming you > would not doing it...it sure isn't for the money... but who knows? Just one > lucky break. > > Jim > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Rocky Smolin - > Beach Access Software > Sent: Tuesday, March 30, 2004 2:49 PM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: Re: [AccessD] OT: A survey from somebody not as well-connected > as JC > > > Andy: > > Don't envy me. They jury's still out. I've got a bit of a buffer so we > won't miss any meals, but that can't go on forever. I've had two good > products and several bad ones. At least this time I'm starting in an > economy that's on the upswing. > > But I've always been a bootstrap kind of guy - we're doing a mailing in San > Diego county this month. Hopefully snag two or three systems. Then use > that money to mail again in another county. Build it up slowly. Instead of > mortgaging the house. > > I'm still doing some fee-for-service as well. So that keeps some of the > lights on. > > It's a high wire act for sure. But when it does work, it's a thing of > beauty. > > Rocky > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Andy Lacey > > Sent: Tuesday, March 30, 2004 1:18 PM > > To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' > > Subject: RE: [AccessD] OT: A survey from somebody not as well-connected > > as JC > > > > > > I envy Rocky (sort of) but won't be trying to emulate him. Been there, > tried > > that, and failed. Problem with the product thing is that you have to > > metamorphose from developer into marketer, and I couldn't. Not my thing at > > all. Plus IME it involves sinking money into advertising, mailing, > > brochures, websites nd so on. You have to be prepared to risk big outlay > > against no guarantee of return. Done that 2 or 3 times to great cost and > no > > great return. Won't be doing it again. > > > > -- Andy Lacey > > http://www.minstersystems.co.uk > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > > > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of > > > Steven W. Erbach > > > Sent: 30 March 2004 04:16 > > > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > > > Subject: Re: [AccessD] OT: A survey from somebody not as > > > well-connected as JC > > > > > > > > > William, > > > > > > >> ...don't take this the wrong way << > > > > > > I won't. I appreciate your point of view. I have gotten > > > caught up in the tools as if owning the right brand of socket > > > wrench will guarantee me a living. > > > > > > But I hear you on the client-centered approach. I've worked > > > on lots of things that were outside of my skill-set comfort zone. > > > > > > I talked with a friend recently about my business and he > > > asked if there was anything I specialized in. I told him no; > > > my business is producing custom solutions to solve customer > > > problems. He recommended a product-centered approach, like > > > what Rocky is aiming for. I have a long-term care facility > > > marketing and donations program I wrote that might fill the > > > bill. We'll see. > > > > > > >> ...but I'm just me and don't have any intention of ever > > > working hard > > > >> again << > > > > > > Not really an option for me as we're having some tough times > > > financially. I can dig the varietal nature of your work, > > > though. Thanks. > > > > > > Regards, > > > > > > Steve Erbach > > > Scientific Marketing > > > Neenah, WI > > > > > > "You must be an intellectual. No normal person would say a > > > thing like that." - George Orwell > > > > > > -- > > > _______________________________________________ > > > AccessD mailing list > > > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/a> ccessd > > > Website: > > > http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > > > > > > > -- > > _______________________________________________ > > AccessD mailing list > > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > > > -- > > _______________________________________________ > > AccessD mailing list > > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > From bchacc at san.rr.com Wed Mar 31 00:07:05 2004 From: bchacc at san.rr.com (Rocky Smolin - Beach Access Software) Date: Tue, 30 Mar 2004 22:07:05 -0800 Subject: [AccessD] OT: A survey from somebody not as well-connected as JC References: Message-ID: <037e01c416e6$64808550$6601a8c0@HAL9002> John: Do you snore? Loudly? Are you very tired upon waking up in the morning? Is you neck circumference over 16 inches? Might you fall asleep while watching TV? Does your wife say you stop breathing or gasp for air while you sleep? Is you body mass index over 26? If you answered yes to any of the above questions you need to be a Sleep Doctor beta tester. Let The Sleep Doctor help. Simply reply to bchacc at san.rr.com and say 'I wanna be a beta tester!'. Operators are standing by... Rocky Smolin Beach Access Software http://www.e-z-mrp.com ----- Original Message ----- From: "John Bartow" To: "Access Developers discussion and problem solving" Sent: Tuesday, March 30, 2004 8:55 PM Subject: RE: [AccessD] OT: A survey from somebody not as well-connected as JC > Good thing my wife doesn't read this or she'd order a copy to analyze me > right now :o) > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Rocky Smolin - > Beach Access Software > Sent: Tuesday, March 30, 2004 10:39 PM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: Re: [AccessD] OT: A survey from somebody not as well-connected > as JC > > > Sure. I estimate it will take to the end of the year before I see any real > results. > > I've got another product cooking as well - analyzes sleep disorders. Been > working on it with an expert in the field for 4-5 years (not continuously, > of course). Might be able to launch it this year. > > Do you want to be a beta tester? > > Rocky > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Kath Pelletti" > To: "Access Developers discussion and problem solving" > > Sent: Tuesday, March 30, 2004 8:23 PM > Subject: Re: [AccessD] OT: A survey from somebody not as well-connected as > JC > > > Well I wish you the very best of luck...can you let us know how the sales > go? > > Kath > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Rocky Smolin - Beach Access Software > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Sent: Wednesday, March 31, 2004 9:42 AM > Subject: Re: [AccessD] OT: A survey from somebody not as well-connected as > JC > > > Kath: > > In the 'old' days when I was flogging this package in DOS, I thought that > some of them would be sold by word of mouth, people seeing it, or the > reports that got passed around (which all had my company name in the > footer). So I always wanted everyone to have the latest version. So I > didn't charge for it. It was in my self-interest to have them use the > most > recent release. And I'm still going to keep to that policy for this new > version. > > If I add a module, like Order Entry, everybody will get it at no cost. > With > distribution by web, there really is no overhead cost to me to distribute > it. And good product sells more product. > > I promote the product support as a 'free phone in consulting service on > any > question related to the software OR manufacturing systems' for the first > year, and $300 a year after that (about 10% of the purchase price). > > In the past I had a lot of conversations with people about manufacturing > issues - how to structure a bill of materials, how to make up a part > numbering scheme, how to solve a particular work order problem, etc - and > very few questions about how to actually run the software. This added a > LOT > of value to the product and didn't really take very much time. > > The key is to make a product which is so user stupid that anybody who can > read and count to 20 can run it. Then you don't get the same question 20 > times a day, like 'how do I run a costed inventory report?'. > > If a user doesn't want to pay the yearly maintenance then they don't get > the > phone support. I could tell them they don't get the new releases as well > but that works against me salewise. Many people didn't pay for the > support > after the first couple of years because they never called me for anything. > > The other key, of course, it goes without saying, is to make the product > so > solid that it doesn't generate bugs and errors. Then you don't get any > support calls. > > BTW - I'm not a marketer or salesy type person, either. But if you have > something you believe in it's not really selling. And I really believe in > this product (why not, I invented it?). I just present the product and if > they like it fine. They buy it. If not, it's like pushing on a string. > > I always wanted people to feel like they got more than they expected and > when you sell hard you overhype, raise expectations, and end up with > customers who expect more than you have to give. > > When people buy E-Z-MRP they feel like they just bought a dollar for fifty > cents. That makes selling a lot easier, too. > > I suppose that's why I'm successful but not rich. :) > > HTH > > Rocky Smolin > Beach Access Software > http://www.e-z-mrp.com > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Kath Pelletti" > To: "Access Developers discussion and problem solving" > > Sent: Tuesday, March 30, 2004 2:59 PM > Subject: Re: [AccessD] OT: A survey from somebody not as well-connected as > JC > > > Rocky - out of interest - what support arrangements / fees are you > offering? > > Kath > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Rocky Smolin - Beach Access Software > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Sent: Wednesday, March 31, 2004 8:48 AM > Subject: Re: [AccessD] OT: A survey from somebody not as well-connected > as > JC > > > Andy: > > Don't envy me. They jury's still out. I've got a bit of a buffer so we > won't miss any meals, but that can't go on forever. I've had two good > products and several bad ones. At least this time I'm starting in an > economy that's on the upswing. > > But I've always been a bootstrap kind of guy - we're doing a mailing in > San > Diego county this month. Hopefully snag two or three systems. Then use > that money to mail again in another county. Build it up slowly. > Instead > of > mortgaging the house. > > I'm still doing some fee-for-service as well. So that keeps some of the > lights on. > > It's a high wire act for sure. But when it does work, it's a thing of > beauty. > > Rocky > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Andy Lacey > > Sent: Tuesday, March 30, 2004 1:18 PM > > To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' > > Subject: RE: [AccessD] OT: A survey from somebody not as > well-connected > > as JC > > > > > > I envy Rocky (sort of) but won't be trying to emulate him. Been there, > tried > > that, and failed. Problem with the product thing is that you have to > > metamorphose from developer into marketer, and I couldn't. Not my > thing > at > > all. Plus IME it involves sinking money into advertising, mailing, > > brochures, websites nd so on. You have to be prepared to risk big > outlay > > against no guarantee of return. Done that 2 or 3 times to great cost > and > no > > great return. Won't be doing it again. > > > > -- Andy Lacey > > http://www.minstersystems.co.uk > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > > > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of > > > Steven W. Erbach > > > Sent: 30 March 2004 04:16 > > > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > > > Subject: Re: [AccessD] OT: A survey from somebody not as > > > well-connected as JC > > > > > > > > > William, > > > > > > >> ...don't take this the wrong way << > > > > > > I won't. I appreciate your point of view. I have gotten > > > caught up in the tools as if owning the right brand of socket > > > wrench will guarantee me a living. > > > > > > But I hear you on the client-centered approach. I've worked > > > on lots of things that were outside of my skill-set comfort zone. > > > > > > I talked with a friend recently about my business and he > > > asked if there was anything I specialized in. I told him no; > > > my business is producing custom solutions to solve customer > > > problems. He recommended a product-centered approach, like > > > what Rocky is aiming for. I have a long-term care facility > > > marketing and donations program I wrote that might fill the > > > bill. We'll see. > > > > > > >> ...but I'm just me and don't have any intention of ever > > > working hard > > > >> again << > > > > > > Not really an option for me as we're having some tough times > > > financially. I can dig the varietal nature of your work, > > > though. Thanks. > > > > > > Regards, > > > > > > Steve Erbach > > > Scientific Marketing > > > Neenah, WI > > > > > > "You must be an intellectual. No normal person would say a > > > thing like that." - George Orwell > > > > > > -- > > > _______________________________________________ > > > AccessD mailing list > > > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/a> ccessd > > > Website: > > > http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > > > > > > > -- > > _______________________________________________ > > AccessD mailing list > > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > > > -- > > _______________________________________________ > > AccessD mailing list > > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > From d.dick at uws.edu.au Wed Mar 31 00:51:13 2004 From: d.dick at uws.edu.au (Darren DICK) Date: Wed, 31 Mar 2004 16:51:13 +1000 Subject: [AccessD] Slow Forms References: Message-ID: <013901c416ec$8f3562b0$48619a89@DDICK> Hi Reuben I don't stuff about with these sort of things any more I rename the Original form that is causing me dramas to Whatever_Original The create a new form from scratch. Import all the objects from the original form (open it in design view then Edit|Selectall|Edit|Copy) then paste all the objects to the new form then do same with the code from the original. Copy it all then pastes it all behind the new form Change all the form settings like Modal = true etc to match the old one Then save the new form with the Original form's name. That does it for me in most cases Hope this helps Darren ----- Original Message ----- From: "Reuben Cummings" To: "AccessD" Sent: Wednesday, March 31, 2004 7:14 AM Subject: [AccessD] Slow Forms > I need help with a form that opens very slowly. > > Everything worked very quickly until I compacted and repaired the db. After > compacting, this form will open slowly one time and then open quickly all > other times. It will continue to open as I would expect it to until it is > compacted again. > > However, if the app is made into an mde then it always opens slowly. > > The form is based on a query. There is a tab control on it. One tab has > about 14 fields from the same recordsource as the main form. The other > three tabs all have subforms based on queries. 2 of those queries have > fields that call functions to get their value. > > All the queries and subforms open very quickly. And if I delete the > subforms, the main form will always operate quickly. > > I have imported into new db's. I have completely rebuilt the main form. > > Any suggestions on where to start troubleshooting this thing? > > Thanks. > > Reuben Cummings > GFC, LLC > phone: 812.523.1017 > email: reuben at gfconsultants.com > > > > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From accessd667 at yahoo.com Wed Mar 31 01:10:20 2004 From: accessd667 at yahoo.com (S D) Date: Tue, 30 Mar 2004 23:10:20 -0800 (PST) Subject: [AccessD] Importing data using a Class..Who can help/review? In-Reply-To: <22F1CCD5171D17419CB37FEEE09D5F99030FE65F@TTNEXCHSRV1.hshhp.com> Message-ID: <20040331071020.95981.qmail@web61109.mail.yahoo.com> Thnx!! I'll give it a go. Sander Jim DeMarco wrote: Sorry there's an error in the code I posted. In the SaveLine method this: With rstInterfaceData .ActiveConnection = oCnn .CursorType = adOpenKeyset .LockType = adLockOptimistic .Source = "SELECT * FROM tblInterfaceData" .Open .AddNew !InterfaceID = intInterfaceID ' ...code omitted should be: With rstInterfaceData .ActiveConnection = m_oCnn .CursorType = adOpenKeyset .LockType = adLockOptimistic .Source = "SELECT * FROM tblInterfaceData" .Open .AddNew !InterfaceID = m_intInterfaceID ' ...code omitted ...forgot to refer to the module level variables! Jim DeMarco -----Original Message----- From: Jim DeMarco Sent: Tuesday, March 30, 2004 9:36 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] Importing data using a Class..Who can help/review? Sander, I took a quick look at this and I do see one thing I'd change. Rather than pass the connection and InterfaceID to every call of the cInterface.SaveLine method why not create an Init method in cInterface where you can pass in the connection and ID one time only before the loop? So your ImportInterface code might look like this when you're done: cnnConnection.BeginTrans cInterface.Init cnnConnection, intInterfaceID Do While Not objTS.AtEndOfStream 'strCurrentLine = objTS.ReadLine blnSaveLineOK = cInterface.SaveLine(intLineID, objTS.ReadLine) intLineID = intLineID + 1 Loop And your class would have a couple of module level variables to hold the connection and InterfaceID: Dim m_oCnn as ADODB.Connection Dim m_intInterfaceID as Integer Public Sub Init(Connection as ADODB.Connection, InterfaceID as Integer) Set m_oCnn = Connection m_intInterfaceID = InterfaceID End Sub Function SaveLine(intLineID As Integer, strLine As String) As Boolean Dim rstInterfaceData As ADODB.Recordset On Error GoTo SaveLine_Error Set rstInterfaceData = New ADODB.Recordset With rstInterfaceData .ActiveConnection = oCnn .CursorType = adOpenKeyset .LockType = adLockOptimistic .Source = "SELECT * FROM tblInterfaceData" .Open .AddNew !InterfaceID = intInterfaceID !InterfaceDate = Format(Now) !InterfaceLine = intLineID !InterfaceData = strLine .Update End With ' ...remaining code omitted for space HTH Jim DeMarco Director Application Development Hudson Health Plan -----Original Message----- From: S D [mailto:accessd667 at yahoo.com] Sent: Tuesday, March 30, 2004 2:38 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Importing data using a Class..Who can help/review? OK, I wanted to add a minidb but a message has a max size of 30KB... I've added the code I use in the following order: Form Module Class I've got the following questions: Q1: I'm calling the method SaveLine via a function ImportInterface. I don't think that this is very good programming. How can I improve this? Q2: I'm not using properties. Do I need them? For what and why? Q3: If anyone has more tips... Form Code Private Sub cmdReadFile_Click() Dim intInterfaceID As Integer intInterfaceID = cboImport Call ImportInterface(cboImport, "D:\Temp Projecten\Access\Interface.dat") End Sub Module '========================================================================================= ' Function Name : ImportInterface ' Parameters : intInterfaceID, strFilename ' Purpose : inserts every line of the interface into tblData ' Assumptions : --- ' Uses : --- ' Created : 2004-03-29 07:56, SaDe ' Modifications : '========================================================================================= Public Sub ImportInterface(intInterfaceID As Integer, strFilename As String) Dim objFSO As FileSystemObject Dim objTS As TextStream Dim strCurrentLine As String Dim strSQL As String Dim dtmCurrentDate As Date Dim intLineID As Integer Dim cInterface As cInterface Dim cnnConnection As ADODB.Connection Dim blnSaveLineOK As Boolean On Error GoTo ImportInterface_Error Set cnnConnection = CurrentProject.Connection Set objFSO = New FileSystemObject Set objTS = objFSO.OpenTextFile(strFilename) Set cInterface = New cInterface blnSaveLineOK = False intLineID = 1 cnnConnection.BeginTrans Do While Not objTS.AtEndOfStream 'strCurrentLine = objTS.ReadLine blnSaveLineOK = cInterface.SaveLine(cnnConnection, intInterfaceID, intLineID, objTS.ReadLine) intLineID = intLineID + 1 Loop 'Check if method executed correct If blnSaveLineOK Then cnnConnection.CommitTrans Call MsgBox("Interface imported!", vbInformation) Else cnnConnection.RollbackTrans Call MsgBox("An error occured!", vbCritical) End If Set cnnConnection = Nothing Exit Sub ImportInterface_Exit: ' Collect your garbage here cnnConnection.RollbackTrans Set cnnConnection = Nothing Exit Sub ImportInterface_Error: ' Collect your garbage here MsgBox "An Error Occured!!!" & Err.Number & ";" & Err.Description End Sub class cInterface Function SaveLine(cnnConnection As ADODB.Connection, intInterfaceID As Integer, intLineID As Integer, strLine As String) As Boolean Dim rstInterfaceData As ADODB.Recordset On Error GoTo SaveLine_Error Set rstInterfaceData = New ADODB.Recordset With rstInterfaceData .ActiveConnection = cnnConnection .CursorType = adOpenKeyset .LockType = adLockOptimistic .Source = "SELECT * FROM tblInterfaceData" .Open .AddNew !InterfaceID = intInterfaceID !InterfaceDate = Format(Now) !InterfaceLine = intLineID !InterfaceData = strLine .Update End With Set rstInterfaceData = Nothing 'Set cnnConnection = Nothing SaveLine = True SaveLine_Exit: ' Collect your garbage here Set rstInterfaceData = Nothing 'Set cnnConnection = Nothing Exit Function SaveLine_Error: ' Collect your garbage here SaveLine = False Call MsgBox(Err.Number & vbCrLf & _ Err.Description & vbCrLf & _ Err.Source & vbCrLf & _ "Newest.cInterface.SaveLine", vbCritical) Resume SaveLine_Exit End Function rsmethurst at uk.ey.com wrote: Sure Sander... I will. Cheers Ryan S D Sent by: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com 29/03/2004 14:46 Please respond to Access Developers discussion and problem solving To: accessd cc: Subject: [AccessD] Importing data using a Class..Who can help/review? Hi group, I'm building a little app that is able to import textfiles. I want to do this using a class. I've made a start and it works! Does anybody have the time/interest to shoot at it? It's very basic. I've got: a class called: cInterface a method called: SaveLine TIA Sander --------------------------------- Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Finance Tax Center - File online. File on time. -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com This e-mail and any attachment are confidential and contain proprietary information, some or all of which may be legally privileged. 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A list of members? names is available for inspection at 1 More London Place, London, SE1 2AF, the firm?s principal place of business and its registered office. -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com --------------------------------- Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Finance Tax Center - File online. File on time. -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com *********************************************************************************** "This electronic message is intended to be for the use only of the named recipient, and may contain information from Hudson Health Plan (HHP) that is confidential or privileged. 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If you are not the intended recipient, please do not forward this email to anyone, and delete and destroy all copies of this message. Thank You". *********************************************************************************** -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com --------------------------------- Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Finance Tax Center - File online. File on time. From john at winhaven.net Wed Mar 31 01:32:03 2004 From: john at winhaven.net (John Bartow) Date: Wed, 31 Mar 2004 01:32:03 -0600 Subject: [AccessD] OT: A survey from somebody not as well-connected as JC In-Reply-To: <037e01c416e6$64808550$6601a8c0@HAL9002> Message-ID: LOL (quietly its 1:30 AM). More just the wierd hours I keep. My wife says I was born to live in Hawaii where at least I would get up and go to bed the same time everyone else does! She's a creature of habit and I'm a habit of creature ;o) -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Rocky Smolin - Beach Access Software Sent: Wednesday, March 31, 2004 12:07 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] OT: A survey from somebody not as well-connected as JC John: Do you snore? Loudly? Are you very tired upon waking up in the morning? Is you neck circumference over 16 inches? Might you fall asleep while watching TV? Does your wife say you stop breathing or gasp for air while you sleep? Is you body mass index over 26? If you answered yes to any of the above questions you need to be a Sleep Doctor beta tester. Let The Sleep Doctor help. Simply reply to bchacc at san.rr.com and say 'I wanna be a beta tester!'. Operators are standing by... Rocky Smolin Beach Access Software http://www.e-z-mrp.com ----- Original Message ----- From: "John Bartow" To: "Access Developers discussion and problem solving" Sent: Tuesday, March 30, 2004 8:55 PM Subject: RE: [AccessD] OT: A survey from somebody not as well-connected as JC > Good thing my wife doesn't read this or she'd order a copy to analyze me > right now :o) > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Rocky Smolin - > Beach Access Software > Sent: Tuesday, March 30, 2004 10:39 PM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: Re: [AccessD] OT: A survey from somebody not as well-connected > as JC > > > Sure. I estimate it will take to the end of the year before I see any real > results. > > I've got another product cooking as well - analyzes sleep disorders. Been > working on it with an expert in the field for 4-5 years (not continuously, > of course). Might be able to launch it this year. > > Do you want to be a beta tester? > > Rocky > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Kath Pelletti" > To: "Access Developers discussion and problem solving" > > Sent: Tuesday, March 30, 2004 8:23 PM > Subject: Re: [AccessD] OT: A survey from somebody not as well-connected as > JC > > > Well I wish you the very best of luck...can you let us know how the sales > go? > > Kath > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Rocky Smolin - Beach Access Software > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Sent: Wednesday, March 31, 2004 9:42 AM > Subject: Re: [AccessD] OT: A survey from somebody not as well-connected as > JC > > > Kath: > > In the 'old' days when I was flogging this package in DOS, I thought that > some of them would be sold by word of mouth, people seeing it, or the > reports that got passed around (which all had my company name in the > footer). So I always wanted everyone to have the latest version. So I > didn't charge for it. It was in my self-interest to have them use the > most > recent release. And I'm still going to keep to that policy for this new > version. > > If I add a module, like Order Entry, everybody will get it at no cost. > With > distribution by web, there really is no overhead cost to me to distribute > it. And good product sells more product. > > I promote the product support as a 'free phone in consulting service on > any > question related to the software OR manufacturing systems' for the first > year, and $300 a year after that (about 10% of the purchase price). > > In the past I had a lot of conversations with people about manufacturing > issues - how to structure a bill of materials, how to make up a part > numbering scheme, how to solve a particular work order problem, etc - and > very few questions about how to actually run the software. This added a > LOT > of value to the product and didn't really take very much time. > > The key is to make a product which is so user stupid that anybody who can > read and count to 20 can run it. Then you don't get the same question 20 > times a day, like 'how do I run a costed inventory report?'. > > If a user doesn't want to pay the yearly maintenance then they don't get > the > phone support. I could tell them they don't get the new releases as well > but that works against me salewise. Many people didn't pay for the > support > after the first couple of years because they never called me for anything. > > The other key, of course, it goes without saying, is to make the product > so > solid that it doesn't generate bugs and errors. Then you don't get any > support calls. > > BTW - I'm not a marketer or salesy type person, either. But if you have > something you believe in it's not really selling. And I really believe in > this product (why not, I invented it?). I just present the product and if > they like it fine. They buy it. If not, it's like pushing on a string. > > I always wanted people to feel like they got more than they expected and > when you sell hard you overhype, raise expectations, and end up with > customers who expect more than you have to give. > > When people buy E-Z-MRP they feel like they just bought a dollar for fifty > cents. That makes selling a lot easier, too. > > I suppose that's why I'm successful but not rich. :) > > HTH > > Rocky Smolin > Beach Access Software > http://www.e-z-mrp.com > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Kath Pelletti" > To: "Access Developers discussion and problem solving" > > Sent: Tuesday, March 30, 2004 2:59 PM > Subject: Re: [AccessD] OT: A survey from somebody not as well-connected as > JC > > > Rocky - out of interest - what support arrangements / fees are you > offering? > > Kath > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Rocky Smolin - Beach Access Software > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Sent: Wednesday, March 31, 2004 8:48 AM > Subject: Re: [AccessD] OT: A survey from somebody not as well-connected > as > JC > > > Andy: > > Don't envy me. They jury's still out. I've got a bit of a buffer so we > won't miss any meals, but that can't go on forever. I've had two good > products and several bad ones. At least this time I'm starting in an > economy that's on the upswing. > > But I've always been a bootstrap kind of guy - we're doing a mailing in > San > Diego county this month. Hopefully snag two or three systems. Then use > that money to mail again in another county. Build it up slowly. > Instead > of > mortgaging the house. > > I'm still doing some fee-for-service as well. So that keeps some of the > lights on. > > It's a high wire act for sure. But when it does work, it's a thing of > beauty. > > Rocky > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Andy Lacey > > Sent: Tuesday, March 30, 2004 1:18 PM > > To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' > > Subject: RE: [AccessD] OT: A survey from somebody not as > well-connected > > as JC > > > > > > I envy Rocky (sort of) but won't be trying to emulate him. Been there, > tried > > that, and failed. Problem with the product thing is that you have to > > metamorphose from developer into marketer, and I couldn't. Not my > thing > at > > all. Plus IME it involves sinking money into advertising, mailing, > > brochures, websites nd so on. You have to be prepared to risk big > outlay > > against no guarantee of return. Done that 2 or 3 times to great cost > and > no > > great return. Won't be doing it again. > > > > -- Andy Lacey > > http://www.minstersystems.co.uk > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > > > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of > > > Steven W. Erbach > > > Sent: 30 March 2004 04:16 > > > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > > > Subject: Re: [AccessD] OT: A survey from somebody not as > > > well-connected as JC > > > > > > > > > William, > > > > > > >> ...don't take this the wrong way << > > > > > > I won't. I appreciate your point of view. I have gotten > > > caught up in the tools as if owning the right brand of socket > > > wrench will guarantee me a living. > > > > > > But I hear you on the client-centered approach. I've worked > > > on lots of things that were outside of my skill-set comfort zone. > > > > > > I talked with a friend recently about my business and he > > > asked if there was anything I specialized in. I told him no; > > > my business is producing custom solutions to solve customer > > > problems. He recommended a product-centered approach, like > > > what Rocky is aiming for. I have a long-term care facility > > > marketing and donations program I wrote that might fill the > > > bill. We'll see. > > > > > > >> ...but I'm just me and don't have any intention of ever > > > working hard > > > >> again << > > > > > > Not really an option for me as we're having some tough times > > > financially. I can dig the varietal nature of your work, > > > though. Thanks. > > > > > > Regards, > > > > > > Steve Erbach > > > Scientific Marketing > > > Neenah, WI > > > > > > "You must be an intellectual. No normal person would say a > > > thing like that." - George Orwell > > > > > > -- > > > _______________________________________________ > > > AccessD mailing list > > > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/a> ccessd > > > Website: > > > http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > > > > > > > -- > > _______________________________________________ > > AccessD mailing list > > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > > > -- > > _______________________________________________ > > AccessD mailing list > > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From accessd667 at yahoo.com Wed Mar 31 02:54:21 2004 From: accessd667 at yahoo.com (S D) Date: Wed, 31 Mar 2004 00:54:21 -0800 (PST) Subject: [AccessD] Cannot open second Recordset?! Message-ID: <20040331085421.99955.qmail@web61105.mail.yahoo.com> Hi group, I keep getting the error: Run-time error '-2147467259(80004005) Method 'Open' of object '_Recordset' failed *************** FORM / Button ********************** Dim arrFileLayout() As Variant Set cInterface = New cInterface With cInterface Call .Init(cnnConnection) Call .GetOpenLines(strSQL) Call .GetFileLayout(arrFileLayout(), 44) ... **************************************************** I get the error when calling the GetFileLayout (GFL) Method.. However the query in GFL is correct. When dropped in a query window it returns the expected records. As you can see I call the method GetOpenLines (GOL) This method works exactly the same but does work?! Skipping GOL also returns the same error?! What am I missing? TIA Sander **** Class cInterface ***** Dim m_oCnn As ADODB.Connection Public Sub Init(Connection As ADODB.Connection) Set m_oCnn = Connection 'm_intInterfaceID = InterfaceID End Sub Function GetFileLayout(ByRef arrFileLayout() As Variant, InterFaceID As Integer) As String 'Create a rst based on table tblInterfaceLayout Dim rstInterfaceLayout As ADODB.Recordset Dim strSQL As String Dim intCounter As Integer Dim cnnConnectIOn2 As ADODB.Connection Set rstInterfaceLayout = New ADODB.Recordset 'Set cnnConnectIOn2 = CurrentProject.Connection() strSQL = "SELECT InterfaceID, FieldID, FieldName, Start, End, Mandatory " & _ "FROM tblInterfaceLayout " & _ "WHERE InterfaceID = " & InterFaceID '"WHERE InterfaceID = " & intInterfaceID ReDim arrFileLayout(1, 3) intCounter = 0 With rstInterfaceLayout .ActiveConnection = m_oCnn 'cnnConnectIOn2 .CursorType = adOpenDynamic .LockType = adLockReadOnly .Source = strSQL .Open <= ERROR OCCURS HERE?! If Not (.BOF And .EOF) Then ... ... Function GetOpenLines(strSQL As String) As String Dim rstOpenLines As ADODB.Recordset Dim varLine As Variant Set rstOpenLines = New ADODB.Recordset With rstOpenLines .ActiveConnection = m_oCnn 'cnnConnection .CursorType = adOpenDynamic .LockType = adLockReadOnly .Source = strSQL .Open If Not (.BOF And .EOF) Then .MoveLast .MoveFirst Do While Not .EOF varLine = !InterfaceData 'Debug.Print varLine 'TODO: Add the data to the specified table .MoveNext Loop Else 'no records to proces End If End With End Function --------------------------------- Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Finance Tax Center - File online. File on time. From accessd667 at yahoo.com Wed Mar 31 03:15:17 2004 From: accessd667 at yahoo.com (S D) Date: Wed, 31 Mar 2004 01:15:17 -0800 (PST) Subject: [AccessD] Cannot open second Recordset?! In-Reply-To: <20040331085421.99955.qmail@web61105.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <20040331091517.7254.qmail@web61105.mail.yahoo.com> Hi group, when I change the SQL: strSQL = "SELECT InterfaceID, FieldID, FieldName, Start, End, Mandatory " & _ "FROM tblInterfaceLayout " & _ "WHERE InterfaceID = " & InterFaceID strSQL = "SELECT * FROM tblInterfaceLayout WHERE InterfaceID = " & InterFaceID it does work?! How is this possible? BTW i did NOT misspel the fieldnames because when I use the debug window to display strSQL I can run the query!! Sander S D wrote: Hi group, I keep getting the error: Run-time error '-2147467259(80004005) Method 'Open' of object '_Recordset' failed *************** FORM / Button ********************** Dim arrFileLayout() As Variant Set cInterface = New cInterface With cInterface Call .Init(cnnConnection) Call .GetOpenLines(strSQL) Call .GetFileLayout(arrFileLayout(), 44) ... **************************************************** I get the error when calling the GetFileLayout (GFL) Method.. However the query in GFL is correct. When dropped in a query window it returns the expected records. As you can see I call the method GetOpenLines (GOL) This method works exactly the same but does work?! Skipping GOL also returns the same error?! What am I missing? TIA Sander **** Class cInterface ***** Dim m_oCnn As ADODB.Connection Public Sub Init(Connection As ADODB.Connection) Set m_oCnn = Connection 'm_intInterfaceID = InterfaceID End Sub Function GetFileLayout(ByRef arrFileLayout() As Variant, InterFaceID As Integer) As String 'Create a rst based on table tblInterfaceLayout Dim rstInterfaceLayout As ADODB.Recordset Dim strSQL As String Dim intCounter As Integer Dim cnnConnectIOn2 As ADODB.Connection Set rstInterfaceLayout = New ADODB.Recordset 'Set cnnConnectIOn2 = CurrentProject.Connection() strSQL = "SELECT InterfaceID, FieldID, FieldName, Start, End, Mandatory " & _ "FROM tblInterfaceLayout " & _ "WHERE InterfaceID = " & InterFaceID '"WHERE InterfaceID = " & intInterfaceID ReDim arrFileLayout(1, 3) intCounter = 0 With rstInterfaceLayout .ActiveConnection = m_oCnn 'cnnConnectIOn2 .CursorType = adOpenDynamic .LockType = adLockReadOnly .Source = strSQL .Open <= ERROR OCCURS HERE?! If Not (.BOF And .EOF) Then ... ... Function GetOpenLines(strSQL As String) As String Dim rstOpenLines As ADODB.Recordset Dim varLine As Variant Set rstOpenLines = New ADODB.Recordset With rstOpenLines .ActiveConnection = m_oCnn 'cnnConnection .CursorType = adOpenDynamic .LockType = adLockReadOnly .Source = strSQL .Open If Not (.BOF And .EOF) Then .MoveLast .MoveFirst Do While Not .EOF varLine = !InterfaceData 'Debug.Print varLine 'TODO: Add the data to the specified table .MoveNext Loop Else 'no records to proces End If End With End Function --------------------------------- Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Finance Tax Center - File online. File on time. -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com --------------------------------- Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Finance Tax Center - File online. File on time. From gustav at cactus.dk Wed Mar 31 02:40:49 2004 From: gustav at cactus.dk (Gustav Brock) Date: Wed, 31 Mar 2004 10:40:49 +0200 Subject: [AccessD] Lookup Fields in Table Design In-Reply-To: <20040330183636.WVRQ1715.imf16aec.mail.bellsouth.net@SUSANONE> References: <20040330183636.WVRQ1715.imf16aec.mail.bellsouth.net@SUSANONE> Message-ID: <256730107.20040331104049@cactus.dk> Hi Susan > Whatever did you do to those poor little girls?????????? ;) Nothing! I was always the nice boy ... /gustav > It turns better and better! That comment reminds me of some experiences in > the school yard where someone (mostly nice little > girls) tried to wash their hands after something "just happened" ... From gustav at cactus.dk Wed Mar 31 03:17:46 2004 From: gustav at cactus.dk (Gustav Brock) Date: Wed, 31 Mar 2004 11:17:46 +0200 Subject: [AccessD] Snapshot Viewer to text In-Reply-To: <005701c41692$6cff8d60$0f01a8c0@cddserver2> References: <005701c41692$6cff8d60$0f01a8c0@cddserver2> Message-ID: <1338946814.20040331111746@cactus.dk> Hi John You could print to a pdf file via a PDF-printer. Then open the pdf file in Adobe viewer and copy/paste the text you need. /gustav > Anyone know if you can take a snapshot viewer file and convert it to > text? From gustav at cactus.dk Wed Mar 31 03:27:10 2004 From: gustav at cactus.dk (Gustav Brock) Date: Wed, 31 Mar 2004 11:27:10 +0200 Subject: [AccessD] Cannot open second Recordset?! In-Reply-To: <20040331091517.7254.qmail@web61105.mail.yahoo.com> References: <20040331091517.7254.qmail@web61105.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <1989510976.20040331112710@cactus.dk> Hi Sander Maybe End is a reserved word? Try leaving out one field name, then another etc. until the query doesn't fail. /gustav > when I change the SQL: > strSQL = "SELECT InterfaceID, FieldID, FieldName, Start, End, > Mandatory " & _ > "FROM tblInterfaceLayout " & _ > "WHERE InterfaceID = " & InterFaceID > strSQL = "SELECT * FROM tblInterfaceLayout WHERE InterfaceID = " & InterFaceID > it does work?! How is this possible? BTW i did NOT misspel the fieldnames because when I use the debug window to display strSQL I can run the query!! From rsmethurst at UK.EY.COM Wed Mar 31 03:44:53 2004 From: rsmethurst at UK.EY.COM (rsmethurst at UK.EY.COM) Date: Wed, 31 Mar 2004 10:44:53 +0100 Subject: [AccessD] Cannot open second Recordset?! Message-ID: Sander, I had a similar problem not so long ago and it was definitely associate with a reserved word in the syntax. If you place [ ]'s around all field names, I'm pretty sure it will work for you...and if you need to find out which one it is, just remove them one by one. (Was a real pain because that error message is about as helpful as a kick in the teeth.) Ryan Gustav Brock Sent by: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com 31/03/2004 10:27 Please respond to Access Developers discussion and problem solving To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving cc: Subject: Re: [AccessD] Cannot open second Recordset?! Hi Sander Maybe End is a reserved word? Try leaving out one field name, then another etc. until the query doesn't fail. /gustav > when I change the SQL: > strSQL = "SELECT InterfaceID, FieldID, FieldName, Start, End, > Mandatory " & _ > "FROM tblInterfaceLayout " & _ > "WHERE InterfaceID = " & InterFaceID > strSQL = "SELECT * FROM tblInterfaceLayout WHERE InterfaceID = " & InterFaceID > it does work?! How is this possible? BTW i did NOT misspel the fieldnames because when I use the debug window to display strSQL I can run the query!! -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com This e-mail and any attachment are confidential and contain proprietary information, some or all of which may be legally privileged. It is intended solely for the use of the individual or entity to which it is addressed. If you are not the intended recipient, please notify the author immediately by telephone or by replying to this e-mail, and then delete all copies of the e-mail on your system. If you are not the intended recipient, you must not use, disclose, distribute, copy, print or rely on this e-mail. Whilst we have taken reasonable precautions to ensure that this e-mail and any attachment has been checked for viruses, we cannot guarantee that they are virus free and we cannot accept liability for any damage sustained as a result of software viruses. We would advise that you carry out your own virus checks, especially before opening an attachment. The UK firm Ernst & Young LLP is a limited liability partnership registered in England and Wales with registered number OC300001 and is a member practice of Ernst & Young Global. A list of members? names is available for inspection at 1 More London Place, London, SE1 2AF, the firm?s principal place of business and its registered office. From mwp.reid at qub.ac.uk Wed Mar 31 04:15:31 2004 From: mwp.reid at qub.ac.uk (Martin Reid) Date: Wed, 31 Mar 2004 11:15:31 +0100 Subject: [AccessD] New SQL Question References: <000301c411aa$1d158a80$6401a8c0@COA3><40638618.8080805@shaw.ca><1626260251.20040326103055@cactus.dk><000901c4159b$2a3a1420$9111758f@aine><40685C8E.8010804@shaw.ca><003101c415c6$9b04d6b0$1b02a8c0@MARTINREID><1389061209.20040330112532@cactus.dk><001b01c4166a$a5ec0770$9111758f@aine> <4232119245.20040330174950@cactus.dk> Message-ID: <001701c41709$192e0f50$9111758f@aine> Heres the record ID 2003001 A 12.9 B 15.4 C1 12.5 D1 10 C2 Null D2 12.9 Given the above how do I get a count for ID 2003001 of 5 indicating that the student sat 5 exams out of the possible 6. The Null indicates that the student did not sit that exam. Not my DB and I cant change anything re structure etc Martin From paul.hartland at fsmail.net Wed Mar 31 04:31:54 2004 From: paul.hartland at fsmail.net (paul.hartland at fsmail.net) Date: Wed, 31 Mar 2004 12:31:54 +0200 (CEST) Subject: [AccessD] New SQL Question Message-ID: <10836365.1080729114445.JavaMail.www@wwinf3005> Martin, Could try something like to following: SELECT StudentID, Count(Exam) As Exams, Count(Pass) As ExamsTaken FROM YourTable GROUP BY StudentID HAVING (((Count(Pass)) Is Not Null)) Paul Message date : Mar 31 2004, 11:19 AM >From : "Martin Reid" To : "Access Developers discussion and problem solving" Copy to : Subject : [AccessD] New SQL Question Heres the record ID 2003001 A 12.9 B 15.4 C1 12.5 D1 10 C2 Null D2 12.9 Given the above how do I get a count for ID 2003001 of 5 indicating that the student sat 5 exams out of the possible 6. The Null indicates that the student did not sit that exam. Not my DB and I cant change anything re structure etc Martin -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com Freeserve AnyTime - HALF PRICE for the first 3 months - Save ?7.50 a month www.freeserve.com/anytime From mwp.reid at qub.ac.uk Wed Mar 31 04:38:44 2004 From: mwp.reid at qub.ac.uk (Martin Reid) Date: Wed, 31 Mar 2004 11:38:44 +0100 Subject: [AccessD] New SQL Question References: <10836365.1080729114445.JavaMail.www@wwinf3005> Message-ID: <000701c4170c$571273d0$9111758f@aine> Thanks Paul we got it worked out after sending the email. Best Wishes Martin ----- Original Message ----- From: To: "Access Developers discussion and problem solving" Sent: Wednesday, March 31, 2004 11:31 AM Subject: Re: [AccessD] New SQL Question Martin, Could try something like to following: SELECT StudentID, Count(Exam) As Exams, Count(Pass) As ExamsTaken FROM YourTable GROUP BY StudentID HAVING (((Count(Pass)) Is Not Null)) Paul Message date : Mar 31 2004, 11:19 AM >From : "Martin Reid" To : "Access Developers discussion and problem solving" Copy to : Subject : [AccessD] New SQL Question Heres the record ID 2003001 A 12.9 B 15.4 C1 12.5 D1 10 C2 Null D2 12.9 Given the above how do I get a count for ID 2003001 of 5 indicating that the student sat 5 exams out of the possible 6. The Null indicates that the student did not sit that exam. Not my DB and I cant change anything re structure etc Martin -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com Freeserve AnyTime - HALF PRICE for the first 3 months - Save ?7.50 a month www.freeserve.com/anytime -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From accessd667 at yahoo.com Wed Mar 31 05:31:57 2004 From: accessd667 at yahoo.com (S D) Date: Wed, 31 Mar 2004 03:31:57 -0800 (PST) Subject: [AccessD] Cannot open second Recordset?! SOLVED In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <20040331113157.99567.qmail@web61101.mail.yahoo.com> Hi Ryan, Gustav, you're both correct! thnx a lot. Sander rsmethurst at uk.ey.com wrote: Sander, I had a similar problem not so long ago and it was definitely associate with a reserved word in the syntax. If you place [ ]'s around all field names, I'm pretty sure it will work for you...and if you need to find out which one it is, just remove them one by one. (Was a real pain because that error message is about as helpful as a kick in the teeth.) Ryan Gustav Brock Sent by: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com 31/03/2004 10:27 Please respond to Access Developers discussion and problem solving To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving cc: Subject: Re: [AccessD] Cannot open second Recordset?! Hi Sander Maybe End is a reserved word? Try leaving out one field name, then another etc. until the query doesn't fail. /gustav > when I change the SQL: > strSQL = "SELECT InterfaceID, FieldID, FieldName, Start, End, > Mandatory " & _ > "FROM tblInterfaceLayout " & _ > "WHERE InterfaceID = " & InterFaceID > strSQL = "SELECT * FROM tblInterfaceLayout WHERE InterfaceID = " & InterFaceID > it does work?! How is this possible? BTW i did NOT misspel the fieldnames because when I use the debug window to display strSQL I can run the query!! -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com This e-mail and any attachment are confidential and contain proprietary information, some or all of which may be legally privileged. It is intended solely for the use of the individual or entity to which it is addressed. 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A list of members? names is available for inspection at 1 More London Place, London, SE1 2AF, the firm?s principal place of business and its registered office. -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com --------------------------------- Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Finance Tax Center - File online. File on time. From greggs at msn.com Wed Mar 31 07:03:52 2004 From: greggs at msn.com (Gregg) Date: Wed, 31 Mar 2004 07:03:52 -0600 Subject: [AccessD] Compacting A2K In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Oh yeah... sorry. Office 2K...SP3, Jet... none, NT4...SP6 Thanks John! -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of John W. Colby Sent: Tuesday, March 30, 2004 9:15 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] Compacting A2K Office Service packs applied? Jet SPs applied? Windows SPs applied? John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Gregg Sent: Tuesday, March 30, 2004 10:16 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: [AccessD] Compacting A2K I'm really stumped on this one. I have a 2K database that won't compact. It says the temporary database is in use. Every once in while it will work... maybe 1 out of 20 tries. This app is running under NT4 and Citrix. I opened a new database and imported just the tables and got the same error. I have a mixture of SQL and Access linked tables as well as FE tables. I start removing tables until it begins working but when I add the last tables I deleted back in, it still works. It's not consistent. When it begins to work I start getting another occasional error. At the end of the compact process I get an error that says "Cannot find field 'Description'". I do have tables with a field name of description but when I remove them I still get the error. The Help says it is error 3799. I can't find anything on it anywhere. Also, I can move the app to another machine and it will compact fine at least until it looks for the SQL links. We rebuilt Citrix and NT OS which did not help. Gregg Steinbrenner -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From accessd667 at yahoo.com Wed Mar 31 06:57:00 2004 From: accessd667 at yahoo.com (S D) Date: Wed, 31 Mar 2004 04:57:00 -0800 (PST) Subject: [AccessD] Check dateformat in wich event? Message-ID: <20040331125702.29870.qmail@web61106.mail.yahoo.com> hi group, I need to check a dozen date-fields and check if the date entered is DD-MMM-YYYY. I've created a constant: Public Const DATE_FORMAT As String = "dd-mmm-yyyy" I want to check the date format like this: Me.txtDate.Text = Format(Me.txtDate, DATE_FORMAT) Wich event is most suited for this? TIA Sander --------------------------------- Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Finance Tax Center - File online. File on time. From gustav at cactus.dk Wed Mar 31 07:25:17 2004 From: gustav at cactus.dk (Gustav Brock) Date: Wed, 31 Mar 2004 15:25:17 +0200 Subject: [AccessD] Check dateformat in wich event? In-Reply-To: <20040331125702.29870.qmail@web61106.mail.yahoo.com> References: <20040331125702.29870.qmail@web61106.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <13723798099.20040331152517@cactus.dk> Hi Sander Wouldn't it be simpler just to apply that format to the textboxes directly? /gustav > I need to check a dozen date-fields and check if the date entered is DD-MMM-YYYY. > I've created a constant: > Public Const DATE_FORMAT As String = "dd-mmm-yyyy" > I want to check the date format like this: > Me.txtDate.Text = Format(Me.txtDate, DATE_FORMAT) > Wich event is most suited for this? From accessd667 at yahoo.com Wed Mar 31 07:37:03 2004 From: accessd667 at yahoo.com (S D) Date: Wed, 31 Mar 2004 05:37:03 -0800 (PST) Subject: [AccessD] Check dateformat in wich event? In-Reply-To: <13723798099.20040331152517@cactus.dk> Message-ID: <20040331133703.96398.qmail@web61105.mail.yahoo.com> Gustav, very big :-) Great idea. Works like a charm Sander Gustav Brock wrote: Hi Sander Wouldn't it be simpler just to apply that format to the textboxes directly? /gustav > I need to check a dozen date-fields and check if the date entered is DD-MMM-YYYY. > I've created a constant: > Public Const DATE_FORMAT As String = "dd-mmm-yyyy" > I want to check the date format like this: > Me.txtDate.Text = Format(Me.txtDate, DATE_FORMAT) > Wich event is most suited for this? -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com --------------------------------- Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Finance Tax Center - File online. File on time. From ssharkins at bellsouth.net Wed Mar 31 07:38:46 2004 From: ssharkins at bellsouth.net (Susan Harkins) Date: Wed, 31 Mar 2004 08:38:46 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Check dateformat in wich event? In-Reply-To: <13723798099.20040331152517@cactus.dk> Message-ID: <20040331133845.RFZS1763.imf21aec.mail.bellsouth.net@SUSANONE> And you point fingers at me?????????????? ;) Susan H. Hi Sander Wouldn't it be simpler just to apply that format to the textboxes directly? /gustav From gustav at cactus.dk Wed Mar 31 07:46:41 2004 From: gustav at cactus.dk (Gustav Brock) Date: Wed, 31 Mar 2004 15:46:41 +0200 Subject: [AccessD] Check dateformat in wich event? In-Reply-To: <20040331133845.RFZS1763.imf21aec.mail.bellsouth.net@SUSANONE> References: <20040331133845.RFZS1763.imf21aec.mail.bellsouth.net@SUSANONE> Message-ID: <10725082026.20040331154641@cactus.dk> Hi Susan ?? Not me! Today you have behaved nicely ... What did you do? /gustav > And you point fingers at me?????????????? ;) > Susan H. > Hi Sander > Wouldn't it be simpler just to apply that format to the textboxes directly? > /gustav From accessd667 at yahoo.com Wed Mar 31 07:52:08 2004 From: accessd667 at yahoo.com (S D) Date: Wed, 31 Mar 2004 05:52:08 -0800 (PST) Subject: [AccessD] Check dateformat in wich event? In-Reply-To: <20040331133845.RFZS1763.imf21aec.mail.bellsouth.net@SUSANONE> Message-ID: <20040331135208.826.qmail@web61105.mail.yahoo.com> Que? Susan Harkins wrote:And you point fingers at me?????????????? ;) Susan H. Hi Sander Wouldn't it be simpler just to apply that format to the textboxes directly? /gustav -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com --------------------------------- Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Finance Tax Center - File online. File on time. From ssharkins at bellsouth.net Wed Mar 31 07:55:21 2004 From: ssharkins at bellsouth.net (Susan Harkins) Date: Wed, 31 Mar 2004 08:55:21 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] OT: A survey from somebody not as well-connected as JC In-Reply-To: <036701c416da$1e2c5540$6601a8c0@HAL9002> Message-ID: <20040331135520.JBJU1797.imf22aec.mail.bellsouth.net@SUSANONE> I have long thought that the way to make money with Access/SQL Server or really any program that you can manipulate vai code is to make small modules that make the user's life easier, not a finished package per se. Now Rocky may have the once in a lifetime great idea that has a large audience, but most of us aren't going to experience that. What we can do, is produce drop-in modules that make the average user's life easier. Wizards are OK, but most of them really won't take the user very far toward getting the word done. You sell a module that does something you think is really rather mundane, but that the average user doesn't hve the experience to automate. The cost is so small anyone can purchase it, and you make money in volume. Will you get rich? Probably not, but I still think there's potential there. Something as simple as a generic module that lets the user determine how many labels to print for each record, and specify a position to start on the first label sheet so they can use a half-used sheet of labels. Both are something I've written about -- could easily be automated to fit be dropped into any module and users would buy it if you only charge $5 or $10. There are tons of ideas for such a market -- but can't tell you where or how to market them. Here's a few more -- a combo or list that automatically displays all the visible reports or forms in the application (omitting hidden and system objects I mean). These are things users could really use and would probably pay a few bucks for. Everyone's busy with custom development, and there's money to be made I'm sure, but there are ton more "users" than developers, but all the products are for developers. Susan H. Sure. I estimate it will take to the end of the year before I see any real results. I've got another product cooking as well - analyzes sleep disorders. Been working on it with an expert in the field for 4-5 years (not continuously, of course). Might be able to launch it this year. Do you want to be a beta tester? Rocky ----- Original Message ----- From: "Kath Pelletti" To: "Access Developers discussion and problem solving" Sent: Tuesday, March 30, 2004 8:23 PM Subject: Re: [AccessD] OT: A survey from somebody not as well-connected as JC Well I wish you the very best of luck...can you let us know how the sales go? Kath ----- Original Message ----- From: Rocky Smolin - Beach Access Software To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Sent: Wednesday, March 31, 2004 9:42 AM Subject: Re: [AccessD] OT: A survey from somebody not as well-connected as JC Kath: In the 'old' days when I was flogging this package in DOS, I thought that some of them would be sold by word of mouth, people seeing it, or the reports that got passed around (which all had my company name in the footer). So I always wanted everyone to have the latest version. So I didn't charge for it. It was in my self-interest to have them use the most recent release. And I'm still going to keep to that policy for this new version. If I add a module, like Order Entry, everybody will get it at no cost. With distribution by web, there really is no overhead cost to me to distribute it. And good product sells more product. I promote the product support as a 'free phone in consulting service on any question related to the software OR manufacturing systems' for the first year, and $300 a year after that (about 10% of the purchase price). In the past I had a lot of conversations with people about manufacturing issues - how to structure a bill of materials, how to make up a part numbering scheme, how to solve a particular work order problem, etc - and very few questions about how to actually run the software. This added a LOT of value to the product and didn't really take very much time. The key is to make a product which is so user stupid that anybody who can read and count to 20 can run it. Then you don't get the same question 20 times a day, like 'how do I run a costed inventory report?'. If a user doesn't want to pay the yearly maintenance then they don't get the phone support. I could tell them they don't get the new releases as well but that works against me salewise. Many people didn't pay for the support after the first couple of years because they never called me for anything. The other key, of course, it goes without saying, is to make the product so solid that it doesn't generate bugs and errors. Then you don't get any support calls. BTW - I'm not a marketer or salesy type person, either. But if you have something you believe in it's not really selling. And I really believe in this product (why not, I invented it?). I just present the product and if they like it fine. They buy it. If not, it's like pushing on a string. I always wanted people to feel like they got more than they expected and when you sell hard you overhype, raise expectations, and end up with customers who expect more than you have to give. When people buy E-Z-MRP they feel like they just bought a dollar for fifty cents. That makes selling a lot easier, too. I suppose that's why I'm successful but not rich. :) HTH Rocky Smolin Beach Access Software http://www.e-z-mrp.com ----- Original Message ----- From: "Kath Pelletti" To: "Access Developers discussion and problem solving" Sent: Tuesday, March 30, 2004 2:59 PM Subject: Re: [AccessD] OT: A survey from somebody not as well-connected as JC Rocky - out of interest - what support arrangements / fees are you offering? Kath ----- Original Message ----- From: Rocky Smolin - Beach Access Software To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Sent: Wednesday, March 31, 2004 8:48 AM Subject: Re: [AccessD] OT: A survey from somebody not as well-connected as JC Andy: Don't envy me. They jury's still out. I've got a bit of a buffer so we won't miss any meals, but that can't go on forever. I've had two good products and several bad ones. At least this time I'm starting in an economy that's on the upswing. But I've always been a bootstrap kind of guy - we're doing a mailing in San Diego county this month. Hopefully snag two or three systems. Then use that money to mail again in another county. Build it up slowly. Instead of mortgaging the house. I'm still doing some fee-for-service as well. So that keeps some of the lights on. It's a high wire act for sure. But when it does work, it's a thing of beauty. Rocky > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Andy Lacey > Sent: Tuesday, March 30, 2004 1:18 PM > To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' > Subject: RE: [AccessD] OT: A survey from somebody not as well-connected > as JC > > > I envy Rocky (sort of) but won't be trying to emulate him. Been there, tried > that, and failed. Problem with the product thing is that you have to > metamorphose from developer into marketer, and I couldn't. Not my thing at > all. Plus IME it involves sinking money into advertising, mailing, > brochures, websites nd so on. You have to be prepared to risk big outlay > against no guarantee of return. Done that 2 or 3 times to great cost and no > great return. Won't be doing it again. > > -- Andy Lacey > http://www.minstersystems.co.uk > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of > > Steven W. Erbach > > Sent: 30 March 2004 04:16 > > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > > Subject: Re: [AccessD] OT: A survey from somebody not as > > well-connected as JC > > > > > > William, > > > > >> ...don't take this the wrong way << > > > > I won't. I appreciate your point of view. I have gotten > > caught up in the tools as if owning the right brand of socket > > wrench will guarantee me a living. > > > > But I hear you on the client-centered approach. I've worked > > on lots of things that were outside of my skill-set comfort zone. > > > > I talked with a friend recently about my business and he > > asked if there was anything I specialized in. I told him no; > > my business is producing custom solutions to solve customer > > problems. He recommended a product-centered approach, like > > what Rocky is aiming for. I have a long-term care facility > > marketing and donations program I wrote that might fill the > > bill. We'll see. > > > > >> ...but I'm just me and don't have any intention of ever > > working hard > > >> again << > > > > Not really an option for me as we're having some tough times > > financially. I can dig the varietal nature of your work, > > though. Thanks. > > > > Regards, > > > > Steve Erbach > > Scientific Marketing > > Neenah, WI > > > > "You must be an intellectual. No normal person would say a > > thing like that." - George Orwell > > > > -- > > _______________________________________________ > > AccessD mailing list > > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/a> ccessd > > Website: > > http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > > > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From ssharkins at bellsouth.net Wed Mar 31 07:57:39 2004 From: ssharkins at bellsouth.net (Susan Harkins) Date: Wed, 31 Mar 2004 08:57:39 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] OT: A survey from somebody not as well-connected as JC In-Reply-To: <037e01c416e6$64808550$6601a8c0@HAL9002> Message-ID: <20040331135738.JCMI1797.imf22aec.mail.bellsouth.net@SUSANONE> If you answered yes to any of the above questions you need to be a Sleep Doctor beta tester. Let The Sleep Doctor help. Simply reply to bchacc at san.rr.com and say 'I wanna be a beta tester!'. Operators are standing by... =======Hey, I took it, and you don't want to know what it said about me. :) It kept snickering... ;) Susan H. From serbach at new.rr.com Wed Mar 31 08:58:48 2004 From: serbach at new.rr.com (Steven W. Erbach) Date: Wed, 31 Mar 2004 08:58:48 -0600 Subject: [AccessD] New SQL Question Message-ID: <20040331085848.1669675382.serbach@new.rr.com> Martin, >> Thanks Paul we got it worked out after sending the email. << As Bryan Carbonnell says, "I think that the send button actually turns brains on." Regards, Steve Erbach Scientific Marketing Neenah, WI "You must be an intellectual. No normal person would say a thing like that." - George Orwell From mwp.reid at qub.ac.uk Wed Mar 31 09:06:35 2004 From: mwp.reid at qub.ac.uk (Martin Reid) Date: Wed, 31 Mar 2004 16:06:35 +0100 Subject: [AccessD] New SQL Question References: <20040331085848.1669675382.serbach@new.rr.com> Message-ID: <001501c41731$c24b07f0$9111758f@aine> LOL Seems to be. Once I sent the message I set down again and looked at the problem and the answer was fairly straight forward. Sometimes I think it helps simply by writing down the problem rather than going around and around inside your head with it. Martin ----- Original Message ----- From: "Steven W. Erbach" To: "Access Developers discussion and problem solving" Sent: Wednesday, March 31, 2004 3:58 PM Subject: Re: [AccessD] New SQL Question > Martin, > > >> Thanks Paul we got it worked out after sending the email. << > > As Bryan Carbonnell says, "I think that the send button actually turns brains on." > > Regards, > > Steve Erbach > Scientific Marketing > Neenah, WI > > "You must be an intellectual. No normal person would say a thing like that." - George Orwell > > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > From garykjos at hotmail.com Wed Mar 31 10:01:48 2004 From: garykjos at hotmail.com (Gary Kjos) Date: Wed, 31 Mar 2004 10:01:48 -0600 Subject: [AccessD] Compacting A2K Message-ID: >>>>"Cannot find field 'Description'". Error on Compacting A2K<<<< The times I have had this error it's been because I didn't have enough free disk space. You need at least twice the available free space as the size of the oiriginal database. And some of that space si needed on the drive where the Windows Temp files go. Gary Kjos garykjos at hotmail.com >From: "Gregg" >Reply-To: Access Developers discussion and problem >solving >To: "Access Developers discussion and problem >solving" >Subject: RE: [AccessD] Compacting A2K >Date: Wed, 31 Mar 2004 07:03:52 -0600 > > > >Oh yeah... sorry. Office 2K...SP3, Jet... none, NT4...SP6 > >Thanks John! > >-----Original Message----- >From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com >[mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of John W. Colby >Sent: Tuesday, March 30, 2004 9:15 PM >To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving >Subject: RE: [AccessD] Compacting A2K > > >Office Service packs applied? Jet SPs applied? Windows SPs applied? > >John W. Colby >www.ColbyConsulting.com > >-----Original Message----- >From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com >[mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Gregg >Sent: Tuesday, March 30, 2004 10:16 PM >To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving >Subject: [AccessD] Compacting A2K > > >I'm really stumped on this one. > >I have a 2K database that won't compact. It says the temporary database is >in use. Every once in while it will work... maybe 1 out of 20 tries. This >app is running under NT4 and Citrix. > >I opened a new database and imported just the tables and got the same >error. >I have a mixture of SQL and Access linked tables as well as FE tables. I >start removing tables until it begins working but when I add the last >tables >I deleted back in, it still works. It's not consistent. > >When it begins to work I start getting another occasional error. At the end >of the compact process I get an error that says "Cannot find field >'Description'". I do have tables with a field name of description but when >I remove them I still get the error. The Help says it is error 3799. I >can't find anything on it anywhere. > >Also, I can move the app to another machine and it will compact fine at >least until it looks for the SQL links. We rebuilt Citrix and NT OS which >did not help. > >Gregg Steinbrenner > > >-- >_______________________________________________ >AccessD mailing list >AccessD at databaseadvisors.com >http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd >Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > >-- >_______________________________________________ >AccessD mailing list >AccessD at databaseadvisors.com >http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd >Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > >-- >_______________________________________________ >AccessD mailing list >AccessD at databaseadvisors.com >http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd >Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com _________________________________________________________________ Is your PC infected? Get a FREE online computer virus scan from McAfee? Security. http://clinic.mcafee.com/clinic/ibuy/campaign.asp?cid=3963 From john at winhaven.net Wed Mar 31 10:15:16 2004 From: john at winhaven.net (John Bartow) Date: Wed, 31 Mar 2004 10:15:16 -0600 Subject: [AccessD] New SQL Question In-Reply-To: <001501c41731$c24b07f0$9111758f@aine> Message-ID: Yes, it sure does! It even adapts to having outgoing messages placed in the outbox until the next scheduled send and receive action rather than sending messages immediately. It sets a time delay for the "brain on" switch to activate exactly 3 seconds after the send action occurs! John -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Martin Reid Sent: Wednesday, March 31, 2004 9:07 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] New SQL Question LOL Seems to be. Once I sent the message I set down again and looked at the problem and the answer was fairly straight forward. Sometimes I think it helps simply by writing down the problem rather than going around and around inside your head with it. Martin ----- Original Message ----- From: "Steven W. Erbach" To: "Access Developers discussion and problem solving" Sent: Wednesday, March 31, 2004 3:58 PM Subject: Re: [AccessD] New SQL Question > Martin, > > >> Thanks Paul we got it worked out after sending the email. << > > As Bryan Carbonnell says, "I think that the send button actually turns brains on." > > Regards, > > Steve Erbach > Scientific Marketing > Neenah, WI > > "You must be an intellectual. No normal person would say a thing like that." - George Orwell > > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From DWUTKA at marlow.com Wed Mar 31 10:22:45 2004 From: DWUTKA at marlow.com (DWUTKA at marlow.com) Date: Wed, 31 Mar 2004 10:22:45 -0600 Subject: [AccessD] OT: A survey from somebody not as well-connected as JC Message-ID: <2F8793082E00D4119A1700B0D0216BF802227A3C@main2.marlow.com> LOL. Rocky, Life has been nothing short of hectic for the last few months. I KNOW you sent me a test to run, but quite frankly, I know I've rebuilt my machine since then, and can't find it. Any way you'll give me another chance to be a beta tester? By the way, and I know this is off topic, but I have an odd 'symptom' I discovered. I've noticed that when I sleep with my CPAP machine, I don't remember my dreams when I wake up. However, when I don't sleep with it, then I can vividly remember my dreams for as long as I want (I can think about them the whole day if I want too). Drew -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Rocky Smolin - Beach Access Software Sent: Wednesday, March 31, 2004 12:07 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] OT: A survey from somebody not as well-connected as JC John: Do you snore? Loudly? Are you very tired upon waking up in the morning? Is you neck circumference over 16 inches? Might you fall asleep while watching TV? Does your wife say you stop breathing or gasp for air while you sleep? Is you body mass index over 26? If you answered yes to any of the above questions you need to be a Sleep Doctor beta tester. Let The Sleep Doctor help. Simply reply to bchacc at san.rr.com and say 'I wanna be a beta tester!'. Operators are standing by... Rocky Smolin Beach Access Software http://www.e-z-mrp.com ----- Original Message ----- From: "John Bartow" To: "Access Developers discussion and problem solving" Sent: Tuesday, March 30, 2004 8:55 PM Subject: RE: [AccessD] OT: A survey from somebody not as well-connected as JC > Good thing my wife doesn't read this or she'd order a copy to analyze me > right now :o) > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Rocky Smolin - > Beach Access Software > Sent: Tuesday, March 30, 2004 10:39 PM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: Re: [AccessD] OT: A survey from somebody not as well-connected > as JC > > > Sure. I estimate it will take to the end of the year before I see any real > results. > > I've got another product cooking as well - analyzes sleep disorders. Been > working on it with an expert in the field for 4-5 years (not continuously, > of course). Might be able to launch it this year. > > Do you want to be a beta tester? > > Rocky > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Kath Pelletti" > To: "Access Developers discussion and problem solving" > > Sent: Tuesday, March 30, 2004 8:23 PM > Subject: Re: [AccessD] OT: A survey from somebody not as well-connected as > JC > > > Well I wish you the very best of luck...can you let us know how the sales > go? > > Kath > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Rocky Smolin - Beach Access Software > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Sent: Wednesday, March 31, 2004 9:42 AM > Subject: Re: [AccessD] OT: A survey from somebody not as well-connected as > JC > > > Kath: > > In the 'old' days when I was flogging this package in DOS, I thought that > some of them would be sold by word of mouth, people seeing it, or the > reports that got passed around (which all had my company name in the > footer). So I always wanted everyone to have the latest version. So I > didn't charge for it. It was in my self-interest to have them use the > most > recent release. And I'm still going to keep to that policy for this new > version. > > If I add a module, like Order Entry, everybody will get it at no cost. > With > distribution by web, there really is no overhead cost to me to distribute > it. And good product sells more product. > > I promote the product support as a 'free phone in consulting service on > any > question related to the software OR manufacturing systems' for the first > year, and $300 a year after that (about 10% of the purchase price). > > In the past I had a lot of conversations with people about manufacturing > issues - how to structure a bill of materials, how to make up a part > numbering scheme, how to solve a particular work order problem, etc - and > very few questions about how to actually run the software. This added a > LOT > of value to the product and didn't really take very much time. > > The key is to make a product which is so user stupid that anybody who can > read and count to 20 can run it. Then you don't get the same question 20 > times a day, like 'how do I run a costed inventory report?'. > > If a user doesn't want to pay the yearly maintenance then they don't get > the > phone support. I could tell them they don't get the new releases as well > but that works against me salewise. Many people didn't pay for the > support > after the first couple of years because they never called me for anything. > > The other key, of course, it goes without saying, is to make the product > so > solid that it doesn't generate bugs and errors. Then you don't get any > support calls. > > BTW - I'm not a marketer or salesy type person, either. But if you have > something you believe in it's not really selling. And I really believe in > this product (why not, I invented it?). I just present the product and if > they like it fine. They buy it. If not, it's like pushing on a string. > > I always wanted people to feel like they got more than they expected and > when you sell hard you overhype, raise expectations, and end up with > customers who expect more than you have to give. > > When people buy E-Z-MRP they feel like they just bought a dollar for fifty > cents. That makes selling a lot easier, too. > > I suppose that's why I'm successful but not rich. :) > > HTH > > Rocky Smolin > Beach Access Software > http://www.e-z-mrp.com > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Kath Pelletti" > To: "Access Developers discussion and problem solving" > > Sent: Tuesday, March 30, 2004 2:59 PM > Subject: Re: [AccessD] OT: A survey from somebody not as well-connected as > JC > > > Rocky - out of interest - what support arrangements / fees are you > offering? > > Kath > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Rocky Smolin - Beach Access Software > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Sent: Wednesday, March 31, 2004 8:48 AM > Subject: Re: [AccessD] OT: A survey from somebody not as well-connected > as > JC > > > Andy: > > Don't envy me. They jury's still out. I've got a bit of a buffer so we > won't miss any meals, but that can't go on forever. I've had two good > products and several bad ones. At least this time I'm starting in an > economy that's on the upswing. > > But I've always been a bootstrap kind of guy - we're doing a mailing in > San > Diego county this month. Hopefully snag two or three systems. Then use > that money to mail again in another county. Build it up slowly. > Instead > of > mortgaging the house. > > I'm still doing some fee-for-service as well. So that keeps some of the > lights on. > > It's a high wire act for sure. But when it does work, it's a thing of > beauty. > > Rocky > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Andy Lacey > > Sent: Tuesday, March 30, 2004 1:18 PM > > To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' > > Subject: RE: [AccessD] OT: A survey from somebody not as > well-connected > > as JC > > > > > > I envy Rocky (sort of) but won't be trying to emulate him. Been there, > tried > > that, and failed. Problem with the product thing is that you have to > > metamorphose from developer into marketer, and I couldn't. Not my > thing > at > > all. Plus IME it involves sinking money into advertising, mailing, > > brochures, websites nd so on. You have to be prepared to risk big > outlay > > against no guarantee of return. Done that 2 or 3 times to great cost > and > no > > great return. Won't be doing it again. > > > > -- Andy Lacey > > http://www.minstersystems.co.uk > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > > > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of > > > Steven W. Erbach > > > Sent: 30 March 2004 04:16 > > > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > > > Subject: Re: [AccessD] OT: A survey from somebody not as > > > well-connected as JC > > > > > > > > > William, > > > > > > >> ...don't take this the wrong way << > > > > > > I won't. I appreciate your point of view. I have gotten > > > caught up in the tools as if owning the right brand of socket > > > wrench will guarantee me a living. > > > > > > But I hear you on the client-centered approach. I've worked > > > on lots of things that were outside of my skill-set comfort zone. > > > > > > I talked with a friend recently about my business and he > > > asked if there was anything I specialized in. I told him no; > > > my business is producing custom solutions to solve customer > > > problems. He recommended a product-centered approach, like > > > what Rocky is aiming for. I have a long-term care facility > > > marketing and donations program I wrote that might fill the > > > bill. We'll see. > > > > > > >> ...but I'm just me and don't have any intention of ever > > > working hard > > > >> again << > > > > > > Not really an option for me as we're having some tough times > > > financially. I can dig the varietal nature of your work, > > > though. Thanks. > > > > > > Regards, > > > > > > Steve Erbach > > > Scientific Marketing > > > Neenah, WI > > > > > > "You must be an intellectual. No normal person would say a > > > thing like that." - George Orwell > > > > > > -- > > > _______________________________________________ > > > AccessD mailing list > > > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/a> ccessd > > > Website: > > > http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > > > > > > > -- > > _______________________________________________ > > AccessD mailing list > > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > > > -- > > _______________________________________________ > > AccessD mailing list > > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From greggs at msn.com Wed Mar 31 10:58:00 2004 From: greggs at msn.com (Gregg) Date: Wed, 31 Mar 2004 10:58:00 -0600 Subject: [AccessD] Compacting A2K In-Reply-To: Message-ID: That's interesting. I have 1.2 GB where the Windows Temp files go and the test file I was using was maybe 10 MB. I have 15 GB on the drive where the database resides. I'm not sure though how Citrix handles all that. Thanks Gary. -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Gary Kjos Sent: Wednesday, March 31, 2004 10:02 AM To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: RE: [AccessD] Compacting A2K >>>>"Cannot find field 'Description'". Error on Compacting A2K<<<< The times I have had this error it's been because I didn't have enough free disk space. You need at least twice the available free space as the size of the oiriginal database. And some of that space si needed on the drive where the Windows Temp files go. Gary Kjos garykjos at hotmail.com >From: "Gregg" >Reply-To: Access Developers discussion and problem >solving >To: "Access Developers discussion and problem >solving" >Subject: RE: [AccessD] Compacting A2K >Date: Wed, 31 Mar 2004 07:03:52 -0600 > > > >Oh yeah... sorry. Office 2K...SP3, Jet... none, NT4...SP6 > >Thanks John! > >-----Original Message----- >From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com >[mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of John W. Colby >Sent: Tuesday, March 30, 2004 9:15 PM >To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving >Subject: RE: [AccessD] Compacting A2K > > >Office Service packs applied? Jet SPs applied? Windows SPs applied? > >John W. Colby >www.ColbyConsulting.com > >-----Original Message----- >From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com >[mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Gregg >Sent: Tuesday, March 30, 2004 10:16 PM >To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving >Subject: [AccessD] Compacting A2K > > >I'm really stumped on this one. > >I have a 2K database that won't compact. It says the temporary database is >in use. Every once in while it will work... maybe 1 out of 20 tries. This >app is running under NT4 and Citrix. > >I opened a new database and imported just the tables and got the same >error. >I have a mixture of SQL and Access linked tables as well as FE tables. I >start removing tables until it begins working but when I add the last >tables >I deleted back in, it still works. It's not consistent. > >When it begins to work I start getting another occasional error. At the end >of the compact process I get an error that says "Cannot find field >'Description'". I do have tables with a field name of description but when >I remove them I still get the error. The Help says it is error 3799. I >can't find anything on it anywhere. > >Also, I can move the app to another machine and it will compact fine at >least until it looks for the SQL links. We rebuilt Citrix and NT OS which >did not help. > >Gregg Steinbrenner > > >-- >_______________________________________________ >AccessD mailing list >AccessD at databaseadvisors.com >http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd >Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > >-- >_______________________________________________ >AccessD mailing list >AccessD at databaseadvisors.com >http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd >Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > >-- >_______________________________________________ >AccessD mailing list >AccessD at databaseadvisors.com >http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd >Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com _________________________________________________________________ Is your PC infected? Get a FREE online computer virus scan from McAfee? Security. http://clinic.mcafee.com/clinic/ibuy/campaign.asp?cid=3963 -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From cfoust at infostatsystems.com Wed Mar 31 10:48:15 2004 From: cfoust at infostatsystems.com (Charlotte Foust) Date: Wed, 31 Mar 2004 08:48:15 -0800 Subject: [AccessD] Lookup Fields in Table Design Message-ID: LOL Well, if you had *seen* my skin, you wouldn't be looking forward to it! Charlotte Foust -----Original Message----- From: William Hindman [mailto:wdhindman at bellsouth.net] Sent: Tuesday, March 30, 2004 6:17 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Lookup Fields in Table Design ...yeah ...but we're all looking forward to seeing you on the skins team :) William Hindman ipsedixitism: something is true because I myself have said it is true ...the philosophy of Noam Chomsky :) ----- Original Message ----- From: "Charlotte Foust" To: "Access Developers discussion and problem solving" Sent: Tuesday, March 30, 2004 2:39 PM Subject: RE: [AccessD] Lookup Fields in Table Design > But bounders and cads is *much* cleverer and we can maintain our > reputation for esoteric knowledge with those teams. > > Charlotte Foust -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From bchacc at san.rr.com Wed Mar 31 10:53:11 2004 From: bchacc at san.rr.com (Rocky Smolin - Beach Access Software) Date: Wed, 31 Mar 2004 08:53:11 -0800 Subject: [AccessD] OT: A survey from somebody not as well-connected as JC References: <2F8793082E00D4119A1700B0D0216BF802227A3C@main2.marlow.com> Message-ID: <079301c41740$a6ff46f0$6601a8c0@HAL9002> Drew: Just tried to send you The Sleep Doctor and got rejected. Is there a better address? The attachment is <1.5MB Rocky Smolin Beach Access Software http://www.e-z-mrp.com ----- The following addresses had permanent fatal errors ----- (reason: 554 : Sender address rejected: Access denied) ----- Transcript of session follows ----- ... while talking to main2.marlow.com.: >>> DATA <<< 554 : Sender address rejected: Access denied 554 5.0.0 Service unavailable <<< 554 Error: no valid recipients ----- Original Message ----- From: To: Sent: Wednesday, March 31, 2004 8:22 AM Subject: RE: [AccessD] OT: A survey from somebody not as well-connected as JC > LOL. Rocky, Life has been nothing short of hectic for the last few months. > I KNOW you sent me a test to run, but quite frankly, I know I've rebuilt my > machine since then, and can't find it. > > Any way you'll give me another chance to be a beta tester? > > By the way, and I know this is off topic, but I have an odd 'symptom' I > discovered. I've noticed that when I sleep with my CPAP machine, I don't > remember my dreams when I wake up. However, when I don't sleep with it, > then I can vividly remember my dreams for as long as I want (I can think > about them the whole day if I want too). > > Drew > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Rocky Smolin - > Beach Access Software > Sent: Wednesday, March 31, 2004 12:07 AM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: Re: [AccessD] OT: A survey from somebody not as well-connected > as JC > > > John: > > Do you snore? Loudly? Are you very tired upon waking up in the morning? > Is you neck circumference over 16 inches? Might you fall asleep while > watching TV? Does your wife say you stop breathing or gasp for air while > you sleep? Is you body mass index over 26? > > If you answered yes to any of the above questions you need to be a Sleep > Doctor beta tester. Let The Sleep Doctor help. Simply reply to > bchacc at san.rr.com and say 'I wanna be a beta tester!'. Operators are > standing by... > > Rocky Smolin > Beach Access Software > http://www.e-z-mrp.com > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "John Bartow" > To: "Access Developers discussion and problem solving" > > Sent: Tuesday, March 30, 2004 8:55 PM > Subject: RE: [AccessD] OT: A survey from somebody not as well-connected as > JC > > > > Good thing my wife doesn't read this or she'd order a copy to analyze me > > right now :o) > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Rocky Smolin - > > Beach Access Software > > Sent: Tuesday, March 30, 2004 10:39 PM > > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > > Subject: Re: [AccessD] OT: A survey from somebody not as well-connected > > as JC > > > > > > Sure. I estimate it will take to the end of the year before I see any > real > > results. > > > > I've got another product cooking as well - analyzes sleep disorders. Been > > working on it with an expert in the field for 4-5 years (not continuously, > > of course). Might be able to launch it this year. > > > > Do you want to be a beta tester? > > > > Rocky > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: "Kath Pelletti" > > To: "Access Developers discussion and problem solving" > > > > Sent: Tuesday, March 30, 2004 8:23 PM > > Subject: Re: [AccessD] OT: A survey from somebody not as well-connected as > > JC > > > > > > Well I wish you the very best of luck...can you let us know how the sales > > go? > > > > Kath > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: Rocky Smolin - Beach Access Software > > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > > Sent: Wednesday, March 31, 2004 9:42 AM > > Subject: Re: [AccessD] OT: A survey from somebody not as well-connected > as > > JC > > > > > > Kath: > > > > In the 'old' days when I was flogging this package in DOS, I thought > that > > some of them would be sold by word of mouth, people seeing it, or the > > reports that got passed around (which all had my company name in the > > footer). So I always wanted everyone to have the latest version. So I > > didn't charge for it. It was in my self-interest to have them use the > > most > > recent release. And I'm still going to keep to that policy for this new > > version. > > > > If I add a module, like Order Entry, everybody will get it at no cost. > > With > > distribution by web, there really is no overhead cost to me to > distribute > > it. And good product sells more product. > > > > I promote the product support as a 'free phone in consulting service on > > any > > question related to the software OR manufacturing systems' for the first > > year, and $300 a year after that (about 10% of the purchase price). > > > > In the past I had a lot of conversations with people about manufacturing > > issues - how to structure a bill of materials, how to make up a part > > numbering scheme, how to solve a particular work order problem, etc - > and > > very few questions about how to actually run the software. This added a > > LOT > > of value to the product and didn't really take very much time. > > > > The key is to make a product which is so user stupid that anybody who > can > > read and count to 20 can run it. Then you don't get the same question > 20 > > times a day, like 'how do I run a costed inventory report?'. > > > > If a user doesn't want to pay the yearly maintenance then they don't get > > the > > phone support. I could tell them they don't get the new releases as > well > > but that works against me salewise. Many people didn't pay for the > > support > > after the first couple of years because they never called me for > anything. > > > > The other key, of course, it goes without saying, is to make the product > > so > > solid that it doesn't generate bugs and errors. Then you don't get any > > support calls. > > > > BTW - I'm not a marketer or salesy type person, either. But if you have > > something you believe in it's not really selling. And I really believe > in > > this product (why not, I invented it?). I just present the product and > if > > they like it fine. They buy it. If not, it's like pushing on a string. > > > > I always wanted people to feel like they got more than they expected and > > when you sell hard you overhype, raise expectations, and end up with > > customers who expect more than you have to give. > > > > When people buy E-Z-MRP they feel like they just bought a dollar for > fifty > > cents. That makes selling a lot easier, too. > > > > I suppose that's why I'm successful but not rich. :) > > > > HTH > > > > Rocky Smolin > > Beach Access Software > > http://www.e-z-mrp.com > > > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: "Kath Pelletti" > > To: "Access Developers discussion and problem solving" > > > > Sent: Tuesday, March 30, 2004 2:59 PM > > Subject: Re: [AccessD] OT: A survey from somebody not as well-connected > as > > JC > > > > > > Rocky - out of interest - what support arrangements / fees are you > > offering? > > > > Kath > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: Rocky Smolin - Beach Access Software > > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > > Sent: Wednesday, March 31, 2004 8:48 AM > > Subject: Re: [AccessD] OT: A survey from somebody not as > well-connected > > as > > JC > > > > > > Andy: > > > > Don't envy me. They jury's still out. I've got a bit of a buffer so > we > > won't miss any meals, but that can't go on forever. I've had two good > > products and several bad ones. At least this time I'm starting in an > > economy that's on the upswing. > > > > But I've always been a bootstrap kind of guy - we're doing a mailing > in > > San > > Diego county this month. Hopefully snag two or three systems. Then > use > > that money to mail again in another county. Build it up slowly. > > Instead > > of > > mortgaging the house. > > > > I'm still doing some fee-for-service as well. So that keeps some of > the > > lights on. > > > > It's a high wire act for sure. But when it does work, it's a thing of > > beauty. > > > > Rocky > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > > > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Andy Lacey > > > Sent: Tuesday, March 30, 2004 1:18 PM > > > To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' > > > Subject: RE: [AccessD] OT: A survey from somebody not as > > well-connected > > > as JC > > > > > > > > > I envy Rocky (sort of) but won't be trying to emulate him. Been > there, > > tried > > > that, and failed. Problem with the product thing is that you have to > > > metamorphose from developer into marketer, and I couldn't. Not my > > thing > > at > > > all. Plus IME it involves sinking money into advertising, mailing, > > > brochures, websites nd so on. You have to be prepared to risk big > > outlay > > > against no guarantee of return. Done that 2 or 3 times to great cost > > and > > no > > > great return. Won't be doing it again. > > > > > > -- Andy Lacey > > > http://www.minstersystems.co.uk > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > > > > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of > > > > Steven W. Erbach > > > > Sent: 30 March 2004 04:16 > > > > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > > > > Subject: Re: [AccessD] OT: A survey from somebody not as > > > > well-connected as JC > > > > > > > > > > > > William, > > > > > > > > >> ...don't take this the wrong way << > > > > > > > > I won't. I appreciate your point of view. I have gotten > > > > caught up in the tools as if owning the right brand of socket > > > > wrench will guarantee me a living. > > > > > > > > But I hear you on the client-centered approach. I've worked > > > > on lots of things that were outside of my skill-set comfort zone. > > > > > > > > I talked with a friend recently about my business and he > > > > asked if there was anything I specialized in. I told him no; > > > > my business is producing custom solutions to solve customer > > > > problems. He recommended a product-centered approach, like > > > > what Rocky is aiming for. I have a long-term care facility > > > > marketing and donations program I wrote that might fill the > > > > bill. We'll see. > > > > > > > > >> ...but I'm just me and don't have any intention of ever > > > > working hard > > > > >> again << > > > > > > > > Not really an option for me as we're having some tough times > > > > financially. I can dig the varietal nature of your work, > > > > though. Thanks. > > > > > > > > Regards, > > > > > > > > Steve Erbach > > > > Scientific Marketing > > > > Neenah, WI > > > > > > > > "You must be an intellectual. No normal person would say a > > > > thing like that." - George Orwell > > > > > > > > -- > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > > AccessD mailing list > > > > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/a> ccessd > > > > Website: > > > > http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -- > > > _______________________________________________ > > > AccessD mailing list > > > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > > > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > > > > > > -- > > > _______________________________________________ > > > AccessD mailing list > > > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > > > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > > > > -- > > _______________________________________________ > > AccessD mailing list > > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > -- > > _______________________________________________ > > AccessD mailing list > > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > -- > > _______________________________________________ > > AccessD mailing list > > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > -- > > _______________________________________________ > > AccessD mailing list > > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > -- > > _______________________________________________ > > AccessD mailing list > > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > > > > > -- > > _______________________________________________ > > AccessD mailing list > > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > From DWUTKA at marlow.com Wed Mar 31 11:00:50 2004 From: DWUTKA at marlow.com (DWUTKA at marlow.com) Date: Wed, 31 Mar 2004 11:00:50 -0600 Subject: [AccessD] OT: A survey from somebody not as well-connected as JC Message-ID: <2F8793082E00D4119A1700B0D0216BF802227A44@main2.marlow.com> Did you send it to dwutka at marlow.com ? I should be able to handle 1.5 megs (have 10 megs left in my mailbox) Drew -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Rocky Smolin - Beach Access Software Sent: Wednesday, March 31, 2004 10:53 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] OT: A survey from somebody not as well-connected as JC Drew: Just tried to send you The Sleep Doctor and got rejected. Is there a better address? The attachment is <1.5MB Rocky Smolin Beach Access Software http://www.e-z-mrp.com ----- The following addresses had permanent fatal errors ----- (reason: 554 : Sender address rejected: Access denied) ----- Transcript of session follows ----- ... while talking to main2.marlow.com.: >>> DATA <<< 554 : Sender address rejected: Access denied 554 5.0.0 Service unavailable <<< 554 Error: no valid recipients ----- Original Message ----- From: To: Sent: Wednesday, March 31, 2004 8:22 AM Subject: RE: [AccessD] OT: A survey from somebody not as well-connected as JC > LOL. Rocky, Life has been nothing short of hectic for the last few months. > I KNOW you sent me a test to run, but quite frankly, I know I've rebuilt my > machine since then, and can't find it. > > Any way you'll give me another chance to be a beta tester? > > By the way, and I know this is off topic, but I have an odd 'symptom' I > discovered. I've noticed that when I sleep with my CPAP machine, I don't > remember my dreams when I wake up. However, when I don't sleep with it, > then I can vividly remember my dreams for as long as I want (I can think > about them the whole day if I want too). > > Drew > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Rocky Smolin - > Beach Access Software > Sent: Wednesday, March 31, 2004 12:07 AM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: Re: [AccessD] OT: A survey from somebody not as well-connected > as JC > > > John: > > Do you snore? Loudly? Are you very tired upon waking up in the morning? > Is you neck circumference over 16 inches? Might you fall asleep while > watching TV? Does your wife say you stop breathing or gasp for air while > you sleep? Is you body mass index over 26? > > If you answered yes to any of the above questions you need to be a Sleep > Doctor beta tester. Let The Sleep Doctor help. Simply reply to > bchacc at san.rr.com and say 'I wanna be a beta tester!'. Operators are > standing by... > > Rocky Smolin > Beach Access Software > http://www.e-z-mrp.com > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "John Bartow" > To: "Access Developers discussion and problem solving" > > Sent: Tuesday, March 30, 2004 8:55 PM > Subject: RE: [AccessD] OT: A survey from somebody not as well-connected as > JC > > > > Good thing my wife doesn't read this or she'd order a copy to analyze me > > right now :o) > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Rocky Smolin - > > Beach Access Software > > Sent: Tuesday, March 30, 2004 10:39 PM > > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > > Subject: Re: [AccessD] OT: A survey from somebody not as well-connected > > as JC > > > > > > Sure. I estimate it will take to the end of the year before I see any > real > > results. > > > > I've got another product cooking as well - analyzes sleep disorders. Been > > working on it with an expert in the field for 4-5 years (not continuously, > > of course). Might be able to launch it this year. > > > > Do you want to be a beta tester? > > > > Rocky > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: "Kath Pelletti" > > To: "Access Developers discussion and problem solving" > > > > Sent: Tuesday, March 30, 2004 8:23 PM > > Subject: Re: [AccessD] OT: A survey from somebody not as well-connected as > > JC > > > > > > Well I wish you the very best of luck...can you let us know how the sales > > go? > > > > Kath > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: Rocky Smolin - Beach Access Software > > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > > Sent: Wednesday, March 31, 2004 9:42 AM > > Subject: Re: [AccessD] OT: A survey from somebody not as well-connected > as > > JC > > > > > > Kath: > > > > In the 'old' days when I was flogging this package in DOS, I thought > that > > some of them would be sold by word of mouth, people seeing it, or the > > reports that got passed around (which all had my company name in the > > footer). So I always wanted everyone to have the latest version. So I > > didn't charge for it. It was in my self-interest to have them use the > > most > > recent release. And I'm still going to keep to that policy for this new > > version. > > > > If I add a module, like Order Entry, everybody will get it at no cost. > > With > > distribution by web, there really is no overhead cost to me to > distribute > > it. And good product sells more product. > > > > I promote the product support as a 'free phone in consulting service on > > any > > question related to the software OR manufacturing systems' for the first > > year, and $300 a year after that (about 10% of the purchase price). > > > > In the past I had a lot of conversations with people about manufacturing > > issues - how to structure a bill of materials, how to make up a part > > numbering scheme, how to solve a particular work order problem, etc - > and > > very few questions about how to actually run the software. This added a > > LOT > > of value to the product and didn't really take very much time. > > > > The key is to make a product which is so user stupid that anybody who > can > > read and count to 20 can run it. Then you don't get the same question > 20 > > times a day, like 'how do I run a costed inventory report?'. > > > > If a user doesn't want to pay the yearly maintenance then they don't get > > the > > phone support. I could tell them they don't get the new releases as > well > > but that works against me salewise. Many people didn't pay for the > > support > > after the first couple of years because they never called me for > anything. > > > > The other key, of course, it goes without saying, is to make the product > > so > > solid that it doesn't generate bugs and errors. Then you don't get any > > support calls. > > > > BTW - I'm not a marketer or salesy type person, either. But if you have > > something you believe in it's not really selling. And I really believe > in > > this product (why not, I invented it?). I just present the product and > if > > they like it fine. They buy it. If not, it's like pushing on a string. > > > > I always wanted people to feel like they got more than they expected and > > when you sell hard you overhype, raise expectations, and end up with > > customers who expect more than you have to give. > > > > When people buy E-Z-MRP they feel like they just bought a dollar for > fifty > > cents. That makes selling a lot easier, too. > > > > I suppose that's why I'm successful but not rich. :) > > > > HTH > > > > Rocky Smolin > > Beach Access Software > > http://www.e-z-mrp.com > > > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: "Kath Pelletti" > > To: "Access Developers discussion and problem solving" > > > > Sent: Tuesday, March 30, 2004 2:59 PM > > Subject: Re: [AccessD] OT: A survey from somebody not as well-connected > as > > JC > > > > > > Rocky - out of interest - what support arrangements / fees are you > > offering? > > > > Kath > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: Rocky Smolin - Beach Access Software > > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > > Sent: Wednesday, March 31, 2004 8:48 AM > > Subject: Re: [AccessD] OT: A survey from somebody not as > well-connected > > as > > JC > > > > > > Andy: > > > > Don't envy me. They jury's still out. I've got a bit of a buffer so > we > > won't miss any meals, but that can't go on forever. I've had two good > > products and several bad ones. At least this time I'm starting in an > > economy that's on the upswing. > > > > But I've always been a bootstrap kind of guy - we're doing a mailing > in > > San > > Diego county this month. Hopefully snag two or three systems. Then > use > > that money to mail again in another county. Build it up slowly. > > Instead > > of > > mortgaging the house. > > > > I'm still doing some fee-for-service as well. So that keeps some of > the > > lights on. > > > > It's a high wire act for sure. But when it does work, it's a thing of > > beauty. > > > > Rocky > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > > > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Andy Lacey > > > Sent: Tuesday, March 30, 2004 1:18 PM > > > To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' > > > Subject: RE: [AccessD] OT: A survey from somebody not as > > well-connected > > > as JC > > > > > > > > > I envy Rocky (sort of) but won't be trying to emulate him. Been > there, > > tried > > > that, and failed. Problem with the product thing is that you have to > > > metamorphose from developer into marketer, and I couldn't. Not my > > thing > > at > > > all. Plus IME it involves sinking money into advertising, mailing, > > > brochures, websites nd so on. You have to be prepared to risk big > > outlay > > > against no guarantee of return. Done that 2 or 3 times to great cost > > and > > no > > > great return. Won't be doing it again. > > > > > > -- Andy Lacey > > > http://www.minstersystems.co.uk > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > > > > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of > > > > Steven W. Erbach > > > > Sent: 30 March 2004 04:16 > > > > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > > > > Subject: Re: [AccessD] OT: A survey from somebody not as > > > > well-connected as JC > > > > > > > > > > > > William, > > > > > > > > >> ...don't take this the wrong way << > > > > > > > > I won't. I appreciate your point of view. I have gotten > > > > caught up in the tools as if owning the right brand of socket > > > > wrench will guarantee me a living. > > > > > > > > But I hear you on the client-centered approach. I've worked > > > > on lots of things that were outside of my skill-set comfort zone. > > > > > > > > I talked with a friend recently about my business and he > > > > asked if there was anything I specialized in. I told him no; > > > > my business is producing custom solutions to solve customer > > > > problems. He recommended a product-centered approach, like > > > > what Rocky is aiming for. I have a long-term care facility > > > > marketing and donations program I wrote that might fill the > > > > bill. We'll see. > > > > > > > > >> ...but I'm just me and don't have any intention of ever > > > > working hard > > > > >> again << > > > > > > > > Not really an option for me as we're having some tough times > > > > financially. I can dig the varietal nature of your work, > > > > though. Thanks. > > > > > > > > Regards, > > > > > > > > Steve Erbach > > > > Scientific Marketing > > > > Neenah, WI > > > > > > > > "You must be an intellectual. No normal person would say a > > > > thing like that." - George Orwell > > > > > > > > -- > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > > AccessD mailing list > > > > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/a> ccessd > > > > Website: > > > > http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -- > > > _______________________________________________ > > > AccessD mailing list > > > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > > > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > > > > > > -- > > > _______________________________________________ > > > AccessD mailing list > > > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > > > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > > > > -- > > _______________________________________________ > > AccessD mailing list > > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > -- > > _______________________________________________ > > AccessD mailing list > > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > -- > > _______________________________________________ > > AccessD mailing list > > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > -- > > _______________________________________________ > > AccessD mailing list > > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > -- > > _______________________________________________ > > AccessD mailing list > > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > > > > > -- > > _______________________________________________ > > AccessD mailing list > > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From bchacc at san.rr.com Wed Mar 31 11:28:13 2004 From: bchacc at san.rr.com (Rocky Smolin - Beach Access Software) Date: Wed, 31 Mar 2004 09:28:13 -0800 Subject: [AccessD] OT: A survey from somebody not as well-connected as JC References: <2F8793082E00D4119A1700B0D0216BF802227A44@main2.marlow.com> Message-ID: <07bf01c41745$8bc65630$6601a8c0@HAL9002> Yeah. But the address I got from the email was uppercase DWUTKA as you can see in the FROM line below and in your email it's lower case. Shouldn't make a difference but I just re-sent it to the lower case address. Stand by... Rocky ----- Original Message ----- From: To: Sent: Wednesday, March 31, 2004 9:00 AM Subject: RE: [AccessD] OT: A survey from somebody not as well-connected as JC > Did you send it to dwutka at marlow.com ? I should be able to handle 1.5 megs > (have 10 megs left in my mailbox) > > Drew > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Rocky Smolin - > Beach Access Software > Sent: Wednesday, March 31, 2004 10:53 AM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: Re: [AccessD] OT: A survey from somebody not as well-connected > as JC > > > Drew: > > Just tried to send you The Sleep Doctor and got rejected. Is there a better > address? The attachment is <1.5MB > > Rocky Smolin > Beach Access Software > http://www.e-z-mrp.com > > > > ----- The following addresses had permanent fatal errors ----- > > (reason: 554 : Sender address rejected: Access > denied) > > ----- Transcript of session follows ----- > ... while talking to main2.marlow.com.: > >>> DATA > <<< 554 : Sender address rejected: Access denied > 554 5.0.0 Service unavailable > <<< 554 Error: no valid recipients > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: > To: > Sent: Wednesday, March 31, 2004 8:22 AM > Subject: RE: [AccessD] OT: A survey from somebody not as well-connected as > JC > > > > LOL. Rocky, Life has been nothing short of hectic for the last few > months. > > I KNOW you sent me a test to run, but quite frankly, I know I've rebuilt > my > > machine since then, and can't find it. > > > > Any way you'll give me another chance to be a beta tester? > > > > By the way, and I know this is off topic, but I have an odd 'symptom' I > > discovered. I've noticed that when I sleep with my CPAP machine, I don't > > remember my dreams when I wake up. However, when I don't sleep with it, > > then I can vividly remember my dreams for as long as I want (I can think > > about them the whole day if I want too). > > > > Drew > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Rocky Smolin - > > Beach Access Software > > Sent: Wednesday, March 31, 2004 12:07 AM > > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > > Subject: Re: [AccessD] OT: A survey from somebody not as well-connected > > as JC > > > > > > John: > > > > Do you snore? Loudly? Are you very tired upon waking up in the morning? > > Is you neck circumference over 16 inches? Might you fall asleep while > > watching TV? Does your wife say you stop breathing or gasp for air while > > you sleep? Is you body mass index over 26? > > > > If you answered yes to any of the above questions you need to be a Sleep > > Doctor beta tester. Let The Sleep Doctor help. Simply reply to > > bchacc at san.rr.com and say 'I wanna be a beta tester!'. Operators are > > standing by... > > > > Rocky Smolin > > Beach Access Software > > http://www.e-z-mrp.com > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: "John Bartow" > > To: "Access Developers discussion and problem solving" > > > > Sent: Tuesday, March 30, 2004 8:55 PM > > Subject: RE: [AccessD] OT: A survey from somebody not as well-connected as > > JC > > > > > > > Good thing my wife doesn't read this or she'd order a copy to analyze me > > > right now :o) > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > > > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Rocky Smolin - > > > Beach Access Software > > > Sent: Tuesday, March 30, 2004 10:39 PM > > > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > > > Subject: Re: [AccessD] OT: A survey from somebody not as well-connected > > > as JC > > > > > > > > > Sure. I estimate it will take to the end of the year before I see any > > real > > > results. > > > > > > I've got another product cooking as well - analyzes sleep disorders. > Been > > > working on it with an expert in the field for 4-5 years (not > continuously, > > > of course). Might be able to launch it this year. > > > > > > Do you want to be a beta tester? > > > > > > Rocky > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > From: "Kath Pelletti" > > > To: "Access Developers discussion and problem solving" > > > > > > Sent: Tuesday, March 30, 2004 8:23 PM > > > Subject: Re: [AccessD] OT: A survey from somebody not as well-connected > as > > > JC > > > > > > > > > Well I wish you the very best of luck...can you let us know how the > sales > > > go? > > > > > > Kath > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > From: Rocky Smolin - Beach Access Software > > > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > > > Sent: Wednesday, March 31, 2004 9:42 AM > > > Subject: Re: [AccessD] OT: A survey from somebody not as > well-connected > > as > > > JC > > > > > > > > > Kath: > > > > > > In the 'old' days when I was flogging this package in DOS, I thought > > that > > > some of them would be sold by word of mouth, people seeing it, or the > > > reports that got passed around (which all had my company name in the > > > footer). So I always wanted everyone to have the latest version. So > I > > > didn't charge for it. It was in my self-interest to have them use the > > > most > > > recent release. And I'm still going to keep to that policy for this > new > > > version. > > > > > > If I add a module, like Order Entry, everybody will get it at no cost. > > > With > > > distribution by web, there really is no overhead cost to me to > > distribute > > > it. And good product sells more product. > > > > > > I promote the product support as a 'free phone in consulting service > on > > > any > > > question related to the software OR manufacturing systems' for the > first > > > year, and $300 a year after that (about 10% of the purchase price). > > > > > > In the past I had a lot of conversations with people about > manufacturing > > > issues - how to structure a bill of materials, how to make up a part > > > numbering scheme, how to solve a particular work order problem, etc - > > and > > > very few questions about how to actually run the software. This added > a > > > LOT > > > of value to the product and didn't really take very much time. > > > > > > The key is to make a product which is so user stupid that anybody who > > can > > > read and count to 20 can run it. Then you don't get the same question > > 20 > > > times a day, like 'how do I run a costed inventory report?'. > > > > > > If a user doesn't want to pay the yearly maintenance then they don't > get > > > the > > > phone support. I could tell them they don't get the new releases as > > well > > > but that works against me salewise. Many people didn't pay for the > > > support > > > after the first couple of years because they never called me for > > anything. > > > > > > The other key, of course, it goes without saying, is to make the > product > > > so > > > solid that it doesn't generate bugs and errors. Then you don't get > any > > > support calls. > > > > > > BTW - I'm not a marketer or salesy type person, either. But if you > have > > > something you believe in it's not really selling. And I really > believe > > in > > > this product (why not, I invented it?). I just present the product > and > > if > > > they like it fine. They buy it. If not, it's like pushing on a > string. > > > > > > I always wanted people to feel like they got more than they expected > and > > > when you sell hard you overhype, raise expectations, and end up with > > > customers who expect more than you have to give. > > > > > > When people buy E-Z-MRP they feel like they just bought a dollar for > > fifty > > > cents. That makes selling a lot easier, too. > > > > > > I suppose that's why I'm successful but not rich. :) > > > > > > HTH > > > > > > Rocky Smolin > > > Beach Access Software > > > http://www.e-z-mrp.com > > > > > > > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > From: "Kath Pelletti" > > > To: "Access Developers discussion and problem solving" > > > > > > Sent: Tuesday, March 30, 2004 2:59 PM > > > Subject: Re: [AccessD] OT: A survey from somebody not as > well-connected > > as > > > JC > > > > > > > > > Rocky - out of interest - what support arrangements / fees are you > > > offering? > > > > > > Kath > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > From: Rocky Smolin - Beach Access Software > > > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > > > Sent: Wednesday, March 31, 2004 8:48 AM > > > Subject: Re: [AccessD] OT: A survey from somebody not as > > well-connected > > > as > > > JC > > > > > > > > > Andy: > > > > > > Don't envy me. They jury's still out. I've got a bit of a buffer so > > we > > > won't miss any meals, but that can't go on forever. I've had two > good > > > products and several bad ones. At least this time I'm starting in > an > > > economy that's on the upswing. > > > > > > But I've always been a bootstrap kind of guy - we're doing a mailing > > in > > > San > > > Diego county this month. Hopefully snag two or three systems. Then > > use > > > that money to mail again in another county. Build it up slowly. > > > Instead > > > of > > > mortgaging the house. > > > > > > I'm still doing some fee-for-service as well. So that keeps some of > > the > > > lights on. > > > > > > It's a high wire act for sure. But when it does work, it's a thing > of > > > beauty. > > > > > > Rocky > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > > > > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Andy > Lacey > > > > Sent: Tuesday, March 30, 2004 1:18 PM > > > > To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' > > > > Subject: RE: [AccessD] OT: A survey from somebody not as > > > well-connected > > > > as JC > > > > > > > > > > > > I envy Rocky (sort of) but won't be trying to emulate him. Been > > there, > > > tried > > > > that, and failed. Problem with the product thing is that you have > to > > > > metamorphose from developer into marketer, and I couldn't. Not my > > > thing > > > at > > > > all. Plus IME it involves sinking money into advertising, mailing, > > > > brochures, websites nd so on. You have to be prepared to risk big > > > outlay > > > > against no guarantee of return. Done that 2 or 3 times to great > cost > > > and > > > no > > > > great return. Won't be doing it again. > > > > > > > > -- Andy Lacey > > > > http://www.minstersystems.co.uk > > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > > > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > > > > > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of > > > > > Steven W. Erbach > > > > > Sent: 30 March 2004 04:16 > > > > > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > > > > > Subject: Re: [AccessD] OT: A survey from somebody not as > > > > > well-connected as JC > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > William, > > > > > > > > > > >> ...don't take this the wrong way << > > > > > > > > > > I won't. I appreciate your point of view. I have gotten > > > > > caught up in the tools as if owning the right brand of socket > > > > > wrench will guarantee me a living. > > > > > > > > > > But I hear you on the client-centered approach. I've worked > > > > > on lots of things that were outside of my skill-set comfort > zone. > > > > > > > > > > I talked with a friend recently about my business and he > > > > > asked if there was anything I specialized in. I told him no; > > > > > my business is producing custom solutions to solve customer > > > > > problems. He recommended a product-centered approach, like > > > > > what Rocky is aiming for. I have a long-term care facility > > > > > marketing and donations program I wrote that might fill the > > > > > bill. We'll see. > > > > > > > > > > >> ...but I'm just me and don't have any intention of ever > > > > > working hard > > > > > >> again << > > > > > > > > > > Not really an option for me as we're having some tough times > > > > > financially. I can dig the varietal nature of your work, > > > > > though. Thanks. > > > > > > > > > > Regards, > > > > > > > > > > Steve Erbach > > > > > Scientific Marketing > > > > > Neenah, WI > > > > > > > > > > "You must be an intellectual. No normal person would say a > > > > > thing like that." - George Orwell > > > > > > > > > > -- > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > > > AccessD mailing list > > > > > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > > > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/a> ccessd > > > > > Website: > > > > > http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -- > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > > AccessD mailing list > > > > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > > > > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > > > > > > > > > -- > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > > AccessD mailing list > > > > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > > > > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > > > > > > > -- > > > _______________________________________________ > > > AccessD mailing list > > > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > > > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > -- > > > _______________________________________________ > > > AccessD mailing list > > > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > > > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > > > -- > > > _______________________________________________ > > > AccessD mailing list > > > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > > > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > -- > > > _______________________________________________ > > > AccessD mailing list > > > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > > > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > > > -- > > > _______________________________________________ > > > AccessD mailing list > > > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > > > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > > > > > > > > > -- > > > _______________________________________________ > > > AccessD mailing list > > > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > > > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > > > > -- > > _______________________________________________ > > AccessD mailing list > > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > -- > > _______________________________________________ > > AccessD mailing list > > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > From clh at christopherhawkins.com Wed Mar 31 11:34:00 2004 From: clh at christopherhawkins.com (Christopher Hawkins) Date: Wed, 31 Mar 2004 10:34:00 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] Needed: GetBusinessDays(Date1, Date2) Message-ID: <40350-22004333117340226@christopherhawkins.com> I am utterly shocked that a Google search on GetBusinessDays turned up squat. Anyways, I need an Access VBA function that will return the number of business days (Mon - Fri) between two dates. I know this is the type of stuff that's supposed to be all over the net, but I am finding nothing. Heeeeeeeeeeelp... -Christoher Hawkins- From carbonnb at sympatico.ca Wed Mar 31 11:51:24 2004 From: carbonnb at sympatico.ca (Bryan Carbonnell) Date: Wed, 31 Mar 2004 12:51:24 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Needed: GetBusinessDays(Date1, Date2) Message-ID: <20040331175124.FILL6424.tomts31-srv.bellnexxia.net@smtp.bellnexxia.net> > From: "Christopher Hawkins" > I am utterly shocked that a Google search on GetBusinessDays turned > up squat. > > Anyways, I need an Access VBA function that will return the number of > business days (Mon - Fri) between two dates. I know this is the type > of stuff that's supposed to be all over the net, but I am finding > nothing. > > Heeeeeeeeeeelp... Try NetWorkDays or GetWorkDays. On a quick peruse of the google results, most of the top hits are Excel examples. -- Bryan Carbonnell - carbonnb at sympatico.ca Unfortunately common sense isn't so common! From gustav at cactus.dk Wed Mar 31 11:52:22 2004 From: gustav at cactus.dk (Gustav Brock) Date: Wed, 31 Mar 2004 19:52:22 +0200 Subject: [AccessD] Needed: GetBusinessDays(Date1, Date2) In-Reply-To: <40350-22004333117340226@christopherhawkins.com> References: <40350-22004333117340226@christopherhawkins.com> Message-ID: <12539823102.20040331195222@cactus.dk> Hi Christopher > I am utterly shocked that a Google search on GetBusinessDays turned > up squat. > Anyways, I need an Access VBA function that will return the number of > business days (Mon - Fri) between two dates. I know this is the type > of stuff that's supposed to be all over the net, but I am finding > nothing. There are not so many around and some of them simply browse each and every day in the interval to check if it's a business day ... I've posted this function several times but I can't remember the old subjects so here it is again: Public Function ISO_WorkdayDiff(ByVal datDateFrom As Date, ByVal datDateTo As Date) As Long ' Purpose: Calculate number of working days between dates datDateFrom and datDateTo. ' Assumes: 5 or 6 working days per week. Weekend is (Saturday and) Sunday. ' Limitation: Does not count for public holidays. ' May be freely used and distributed. ' 1999-04-23. Gustav Brock, Cactus Data ApS, Copenhagen ' 2000-10-03. Constants added. ' Option for 5 or 6 working days per week added. Const cbytWorkdaysOfWeek As Byte = 5 Dim bytSunday As Byte Dim intWeekdayDateFrom As Integer Dim intWeekdayDateTo As Integer Dim lngDays As Long Dim datDateTemp As Date ' Reverse dates if these have been input reversed. If datDateFrom > datDateTo Then datDateTemp = datDateFrom datDateFrom = datDateTo datDateTo = datDateTemp End If ' Find ISO weekday for Sunday. bytSunday = WeekDay(vbSunday, vbMonday) ' Find weekdays for the dates. intWeekdayDateFrom = WeekDay(datDateFrom, vbMonday) intWeekdayDateTo = WeekDay(datDateTo, vbMonday) ' Compensate weekdays' value for non-working days (weekends). intWeekdayDateFrom = intWeekdayDateFrom + (intWeekdayDateFrom = bytSunday) intWeekdayDateTo = intWeekdayDateTo + (intWeekdayDateTo = bytSunday) ' Calculate number of working days between the two weekdays, ignoring number of weeks. lngDays = intWeekdayDateTo - intWeekdayDateFrom - (cbytWorkdaysOfWeek * (intWeekdayDateTo < intWeekdayDateFrom)) ' Add number of working days between the weeks of the two dates. lngDays = lngDays + (cbytWorkdaysOfWeek * DateDiff("w", datDateFrom, datDateTo, vbMonday, vbFirstFourDays)) ISO_WorkdayDiff = lngDays End Function Have fun! /gustav From JRojas at tnco-inc.com Wed Mar 31 11:56:55 2004 From: JRojas at tnco-inc.com (Joe Rojas) Date: Wed, 31 Mar 2004 12:56:55 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Needed: GetBusinessDays(Date1, Date2) Message-ID: <806536912C472E4A9D6515DF2E57261E23977C@mercury.tnco-inc.com> Don't know if it is the most efficient or even if I wrote it. :) Public Function CalcWorkDays(Start As Date, Optional Finish As Date) As Integer Dim NumOfDays As Long Dim NumOfWorkDays As Integer Dim DayNum As Integer If Finish = #12:00:00 AM# Then Finish = Date NumOfDays = DateDiff("d", Start, Finish) NumOfWorkDays = 0 For i = 1 To NumOfDays DayNum = Weekday(Start + i) If (DayNum <> 1 And DayNum <> 7) Then NumOfWorkDays = NumOfWorkDays + 1 Next CalcWorkDays = NumOfWorkDays End Function JR -----Original Message----- From: Christopher Hawkins [mailto:clh at christopherhawkins.com] Sent: Wednesday, March 31, 2004 12:34 PM To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: [AccessD] Needed: GetBusinessDays(Date1, Date2) I am utterly shocked that a Google search on GetBusinessDays turned up squat. Anyways, I need an Access VBA function that will return the number of business days (Mon - Fri) between two dates. I know this is the type of stuff that's supposed to be all over the net, but I am finding nothing. Heeeeeeeeeeelp... -Christoher Hawkins- -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com This electronic transmission is strictly confidential to TNCO, Inc. and intended solely for the addressee. It may contain information which is covered by legal, professional, or other privileges. If you are not the intended addressee, or someone authorized by the intended addressee to receive transmissions on behalf of the addressee, you must not retain, disclose in any form, copy, or take any action in reliance on this transmission. 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From martyconnelly at shaw.ca Wed Mar 31 12:36:06 2004 From: martyconnelly at shaw.ca (MartyConnelly) Date: Wed, 31 Mar 2004 10:36:06 -0800 Subject: [AccessD] Info: Microsoft Service Pack 6 for Visual Basic 6.0, Visual C++ 6.0 released References: Message-ID: <406B0F96.9090002@shaw.ca> Microsoft Service Pack 6 for Visual Basic 6.0, Visual C++ 6.0 enduser runtime download Service Pack 6 for Visual Basic 6.0: Run-Time Redistribution Pack (vbrun60sp6.exe) http://www.microsoft.com/downloads/details.aspx?FamilyID=7b9ba261-7a9c-43e7-9117-f673077ffb3c&DisplayLang=en Visual Studio 6.0 Service Pack 6 Description and Visual Studio VB & Visual C++ downloads http://msdn.microsoft.com/vstudio/downloads/updates/sp/vs6/sp6/default.aspx -- Marty Connelly Victoria, B.C. Canada From ssharkins at bellsouth.net Wed Mar 31 13:14:41 2004 From: ssharkins at bellsouth.net (Susan Harkins) Date: Wed, 31 Mar 2004 14:14:41 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Needed: GetBusinessDays(Date1, Date2) In-Reply-To: <40350-22004333117340226@christopherhawkins.com> Message-ID: <20040331191440.VIVD1715.imf16aec.mail.bellsouth.net@SUSANONE> http://www.elementkjournals.com/premier/showArticle.asp?origSearchTerm=busin ess%20days&aid=13136 Unless you've got a sub, you can't get in though -- I don't usually do this, but I couldn't find your email in the message header anywhere to send this to you privately. Susan H. Don't get caught by surprise-calculate business days available to meet a deadline by Susan Sales Harkins and Doris Manning Application(s): Microsoft Access 97/2000/2002 Operating System(s): Download: http://download.elementkjournals.com/access/200402/busdays.zip Knowing the exact number of business days between two dates can be critical. Certainly, it's one of those times when almost right isn't enough. An accurate count can mean realizing an investment or bringing a project in on time, so you need precision, not estimates. You may already have a function that accurately returns the number of business days. However, it may be a tad slow if it uses a loop to determine whether every day in the time period is a weekday or a weekend day. If that's the case, you might want a faster performing function. In this article, we'll show you a function that accommodates holidays and quickly returns the exact number of business days between two dates because there's no loop to slow things down. Note: When we refer to work or business days in relation to our function, we mean a standard Monday through Friday workweek-if your workweek includes Saturday and Sunday, this function won't work for you. Improving working conditions The last thing you need is more work, but that's exactly what you'll get if you're guessing at the number of workdays that you have to finish a project. Our technique includes three objects: a simple table for storing your holidays, a form that you'll use to enter both anchor dates, and one module. By anchor dates, we mean the first and last dates in any given time period for which you want to return just the business days, excluding weekend days and holidays. First, we'll create the table and enter the holidays you want to exclude from the count. Then, we'll create a simple form that accepts two dates and returns the exact number of business days between the two dates-minus any holidays that may fall within the timeframe. In the final step, we'll open a standard module and enter the function procedure that calculates the business days. Setting it up The first thing you need is a simple table to store holidays. Create a new table named tblHolidays. The table needs two fields: HolidayDate (a Date/Time field) and HolidayDescription (a text field). (You can set a primary key if you like, but one isn't required for this technique.) We'll work with the small table of selected United States holidays shown in Figure A. You can enter other holidays, but your results may differ from ours. Figure A: Store a year's worth of holiday dates in the tblHolidays table. As you enter your own dates, don't include holidays that fall on a Saturday or Sunday, since the function excludes all weekend days. For instance, July 4 falls on a Sunday in 2004. However, if your organization compensates for such holidays by closing on the previous Friday or following Monday, you'll want to include that date. Likewise, if you take off the Friday following the Thanksgiving holiday, allow for both days. Use the form shown in Figure B to pass two values to a function procedure that performs the actual calculations. To create the form, open a blank form and add three text box controls, a command button, and two label controls, using Figure B as a guide. Note that since the label controls to the right of the textbox controls are initially blank, you must enter a few space characters in them. These labels really aren't critical to the success of the function, but they'll display the day of the week for both of the two anchor dates. Set the control captions as shown in Figure B, and then refer to Table A for the remaining form and control properties. Finally, save the form as frmBusinessDays. Figure B: Use this form to gather and then pass both anchor dates to the function procedure that returns the number of business days between the dates. Table A: Form and control properties Object Property Setting Form Caption Calculate Business Days Scroll Bars Neither Record Selectors No Navigation Buttons No Textbox Name txtStart Format ShortDate Textbox Name txtEnd Format ShortDate Command Button Name cmdCalculate Caption Calculate Textbox Name txtBusinessDays Label Name lblStart Label Name lblEnd Now, you're ready to enter the code that runs the form. To do so, click the Code button on the Form Design toolbar to launch the Visual Basic Editor (VBE). Enter the event procedures shown in Listing A, and then close the VBE. Save the form and close it. Listing A: Control event procedures Private Sub cmdCalculate_Click() Dim dteStart As Date Dim dteEnd As Date If IsNull(txtStart) Then MsgBox "Please enter a start date", vbOKOnly, "Error" Exit Sub End If If IsNull(txtEnd) Then MsgBox "Please enter an ending date", vbOKOnly, "Error" Exit Sub End If dteStart = txtStart dteEnd = txtEnd txtBusinessDays = BusinessDays(dteStart, dteEnd) End Sub Private Sub txtStart_LostFocus() lblStart.Caption = Format(txtStart, "dddd") End Sub Private Sub txtEnd_LostFocus() lblEnd.Caption = Format(txtEnd, "dddd") End Sub Creating BusinessDays() Now, you're ready to add the function procedure that calculates the business days between the two days you'll enter in the form you just created. Switch to the Modules sheet of the Database window and choose Module from the Insert menu. Next, enter the function in Listing B, and then save the module as basBusinessDays. If you're using DAO, make the substitutions shown in Table B. Finally, close the VBE. Listing B: Function to return number of workdays Function BusinessDays(startdate As Date, enddate As Date) As Integer Dim intHolidays As Integer Dim intTotalDays As Integer Dim intWeekendDays As Integer Dim rst As New ADODB.Recordset Dim strSQL As String Select Case DatePart("w", startdate, vbMonday) Case Is = 6 startdate = DateAdd("d", startdate, 2) Case Is = 7 startdate = DateAdd("d", startdate, 1) End Select Select Case DatePart("w", enddate, vbMonday) Case Is = 6 enddate = DateAdd("d", enddate, -1) Case Is = 7 enddate = DateAdd("d", enddate, -2) End Select strSQL = "SELECT Count(*) " & _ "FROM tblHolidays " & _ "WHERE HolidayDate BETWEEN #" & startdate & _ "# AND #" & enddate & "#" rst.Open strSQL, CurrentProject.Connection intHolidays = rst(0) intTotalDays = DateDiff("d", startdate, enddate) + 1 intWeekendDays = DateDiff("ww", startdate, enddate, vbMonday) * 2 BusinessDays = intTotalDays - intWeekendDays - intHolidays Set rst = Nothing End Function Table B: DAO substitutions ADO DAO Dim rst As New ADODB.Recordset Dim rst As DAO.Recordset rst.Open strSQL, _ CurrentProject.Connection Set rst = _ CurrentDb.OpenRecordset(strSQL) The function looks more complicated than it is. First, the function adjusts the two passed dates if either falls on a Saturday or Sunday. Specifically, if the starting date falls on a Saturday or Sunday, the first SELECT CASE statement adds 1 or 2 days to startdate, respectively, to make sure startdate is the following Monday. Similarly, if the ending date falls on a Saturday or Sunday, the second SELECT CASE statement respectively subtracts 1 or 2 days, making enddate the previous Friday. Then, the function determines the number of records in tblHolidays where HolidayDate falls between the two passed dates, startdate and enddate. That value is stored in the integer variable intHolidays. At this point, the function uses the DateDiff() function to determine the total number of days between the (possibly modified) startdate and enddate values. Using the same startdate and enddate values, the function again uses the DateDiff() function to determine the number of weekend days that fall in the same time period. Finally, the function subtracts the number of weekend days and holidays from the total number of days to determine the number of business days. Calculating business days Now, you're ready to put everything to use, so open frmBusinessDays. To determine the number of business days between two dates, simply enter the first and last dates in the time period. For instance, enter 1/1/2004 and 1/10/2004 and then click Calculate. Figure C shows the result, which is 6. Figure C: Click the Calculate button to return the number of business days between the two dates. Let's take a look at everything that went on to return the value 6. After you entered date values in the first two controls, the LostFocus event procedures for those controls displayed the corresponding date's day of the week value to the right (in the label controls). These values aren't used, but it might be useful to know what day of the week each date represents. Clicking the Calculate button executed that button's Click event procedure. This procedure initially ensures that neither anchor date control is Null, which would return an error. You don't need to check for actual date values because both control's Format properties are set to Short Date. If you end up eliminating that Format property, you'll want to add code that verifies that the value is indeed a date. The event procedure then passed the two date values to BusinessDays() and then displayed the result in txtBusinessDays (the third text box). In the above example, the event procedure passed 1/1/2004 and 1/10/2004. The later date falls on a Saturday, so Access adjusted enddate by subtracting 1 day. As a result, enddate then equaled 1/9/2004. Then, the number of holidays between 1/1/2004 and 1/9/2004 were returned to the variable intHolidays. In this case, that value was 1. The total number of days between the two dates was 9 and the total number of weekend days was 2. Therefore, the final expression evaluated as follows: BusinessDays = intTotalDays - intWeekendDays - intHolidays BusinessDays = 9 - 2 - 1 BusinessDays = 6 A couple of points worth noting It's worth pointing out that the BusinessDays() function currently allows users to enter ending dates that fall before the start date. When this occurs, the function result is a negative value. You may or may not want to alter that behavior. If you want to prevent such cases, you might want to add a simple If...Then statement that checks the values and returns a message if the dates are inappropriate. Take a holiday! Sometimes you may feel that you spend more time keeping track of tasks and deliverables than actually working on them, so using a tool like Access to manage tasks can be a sanity saver. However, it's easy to get behind schedule if you don't allocate an appropriate amount of time to complete the tasks at the outset. Fortunately, you can use a custom function like the one we created in this article to ensure that you set realistic due dates. Soon you'll be able to take advantage of those paid holidays without worrying that projects are off schedule! -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Christopher Hawkins Sent: Wednesday, March 31, 2004 12:34 PM To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: [AccessD] Needed: GetBusinessDays(Date1, Date2) I am utterly shocked that a Google search on GetBusinessDays turned up squat. Anyways, I need an Access VBA function that will return the number of business days (Mon - Fri) between two dates. I know this is the type of stuff that's supposed to be all over the net, but I am finding nothing. Heeeeeeeeeeelp... -Christoher Hawkins- -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From reuben at gfconsultants.com Wed Mar 31 13:34:32 2004 From: reuben at gfconsultants.com (Reuben Cummings) Date: Wed, 31 Mar 2004 14:34:32 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Slow Forms In-Reply-To: <004301c416c7$a9f698f0$6101a8c0@dejpolsys> Message-ID: > > ...have you tried not loading the tabbed data until its actually selected I've considered this option. What event is used to "see" a tab being selected? Reuben Cummings GFC, LLC phone: 812.523.1017 email: reuben at gfconsultants.com > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of William > Hindman > Sent: Tuesday, March 30, 2004 9:27 PM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: Re: [AccessD] Slow Forms > > > ...have you tried not loading the tabbed data until its actually selected > ...that should let your main form open quickly based upon the info you > submitted. > > William Hindman > ipsedixitism: something is true because I myself have said it is > true ...the > philosophy of Noam Chomsky :) > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Reuben Cummings" > To: "AccessD" > Sent: Tuesday, March 30, 2004 4:14 PM > Subject: [AccessD] Slow Forms > > > > I need help with a form that opens very slowly. > > > > Everything worked very quickly until I compacted and repaired the db. > After > > compacting, this form will open slowly one time and then open > quickly all > > other times. It will continue to open as I would expect it to > until it is > > compacted again. > > > > However, if the app is made into an mde then it always opens slowly. > > > > The form is based on a query. There is a tab control on it. > One tab has > > about 14 fields from the same recordsource as the main form. The other > > three tabs all have subforms based on queries. 2 of those queries have > > fields that call functions to get their value. > > > > All the queries and subforms open very quickly. And if I delete the > > subforms, the main form will always operate quickly. > > > > I have imported into new db's. I have completely rebuilt the main form. > > > > Any suggestions on where to start troubleshooting this thing? > > > > Thanks. > > > > Reuben Cummings > > GFC, LLC > > phone: 812.523.1017 > > email: reuben at gfconsultants.com > > > > > > > > -- > > _______________________________________________ > > AccessD mailing list > > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > From Lambert.Heenan at AIG.com Wed Mar 31 13:51:07 2004 From: Lambert.Heenan at AIG.com (Heenan, Lambert) Date: Wed, 31 Mar 2004 14:51:07 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Slow Forms Message-ID: <8B98F8EA48F8BA47A2F24E0D0AF40CF407AD805D@xlivmbx12.aig.com> You need to use the tab Control's Change event. If you reference the tab control's Value property you will get the index number of the tab in question. > -----Original Message----- > From: Reuben Cummings [SMTP:reuben at gfconsultants.com] > Sent: Wednesday, March 31, 2004 2:35 PM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: RE: [AccessD] Slow Forms > > > > > ...have you tried not loading the tabbed data until its actually > selected > > I've considered this option. > > What event is used to "see" a tab being selected? > > Reuben Cummings > GFC, LLC > phone: 812.523.1017 > email: reuben at gfconsultants.com > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of William > > Hindman > > Sent: Tuesday, March 30, 2004 9:27 PM > > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > > Subject: Re: [AccessD] Slow Forms > > > > > > ...have you tried not loading the tabbed data until its actually > selected > > ...that should let your main form open quickly based upon the info you > > submitted. > > > > William Hindman > > ipsedixitism: something is true because I myself have said it is > > true ...the > > philosophy of Noam Chomsky :) > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: "Reuben Cummings" > > To: "AccessD" > > Sent: Tuesday, March 30, 2004 4:14 PM > > Subject: [AccessD] Slow Forms > > > > > > > I need help with a form that opens very slowly. > > > > > > Everything worked very quickly until I compacted and repaired the db. > > After > > > compacting, this form will open slowly one time and then open > > quickly all > > > other times. It will continue to open as I would expect it to > > until it is > > > compacted again. > > > > > > However, if the app is made into an mde then it always opens slowly. > > > > > > The form is based on a query. There is a tab control on it. > > One tab has > > > about 14 fields from the same recordsource as the main form. The > other > > > three tabs all have subforms based on queries. 2 of those queries > have > > > fields that call functions to get their value. > > > > > > All the queries and subforms open very quickly. And if I delete the > > > subforms, the main form will always operate quickly. > > > > > > I have imported into new db's. I have completely rebuilt the main > form. > > > > > > Any suggestions on where to start troubleshooting this thing? > > > > > > Thanks. > > > > > > Reuben Cummings > > > GFC, LLC > > > phone: 812.523.1017 > > > email: reuben at gfconsultants.com > > > > > > > > > > > > -- > > > _______________________________________________ > > > AccessD mailing list > > > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > > > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > > > > > > -- > > _______________________________________________ > > AccessD mailing list > > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > > > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From jimdettman at earthlink.net Wed Mar 31 14:43:22 2004 From: jimdettman at earthlink.net (Jim Dettman) Date: Wed, 31 Mar 2004 15:43:22 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Slow Forms In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Reuben, Sounds like the costing plan being done for the queries. I would not consider it abnormal. Jim Dettman President, Online Computer Services of WNY, Inc. (315) 699-3443 jimdettman at earthlink.net -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Reuben Cummings Sent: Tuesday, March 30, 2004 4:30 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] Slow Forms When I say slow I mean from 1 second before compacting to 11-15 seconds the first time and 1 second afterward. In an mde it always takes about 11-15 seconds on my machine and 30 seconds across the network. I should have mentioned the app is split and in A2K. Reuben Cummings GFC, LLC phone: 812.523.1017 email: reuben at gfconsultants.com > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Jim Dettman > Sent: Tuesday, March 30, 2004 4:19 PM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: RE: [AccessD] Slow Forms > > > Reuben, > > < After > compacting, this form will open slowly one time and then open quickly all > other times. It will continue to open as I would expect it to until it is > compacted again.>> > > Not sure what you mean by "slow" (i.e. drastic difference?), > but you will > in general see that after any compact as the database stats are reset and > all query plans are redone the first time a query is executed. > > Jim Dettman > President, > Online Computer Services of WNY, Inc. > (315) 699-3443 > jimdettman at earthlink.net > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Reuben > Cummings > Sent: Tuesday, March 30, 2004 4:15 PM > To: AccessD > Subject: [AccessD] Slow Forms > > > I need help with a form that opens very slowly. > > Everything worked very quickly until I compacted and repaired the > db. After > compacting, this form will open slowly one time and then open quickly all > other times. It will continue to open as I would expect it to until it is > compacted again. > > However, if the app is made into an mde then it always opens slowly. > > The form is based on a query. There is a tab control on it. One tab has > about 14 fields from the same recordsource as the main form. The other > three tabs all have subforms based on queries. 2 of those queries have > fields that call functions to get their value. > > All the queries and subforms open very quickly. And if I delete the > subforms, the main form will always operate quickly. > > I have imported into new db's. I have completely rebuilt the main form. > > Any suggestions on where to start troubleshooting this thing? > > Thanks. > > Reuben Cummings > GFC, LLC > phone: 812.523.1017 > email: reuben at gfconsultants.com > > > > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From bchacc at san.rr.com Wed Mar 31 14:46:26 2004 From: bchacc at san.rr.com (Rocky Smolin - Beach Access Software) Date: Wed, 31 Mar 2004 12:46:26 -0800 Subject: [AccessD] OT: A survey from somebody not as well-connected as JC References: <2F8793082E00D4119A1700B0D0216BF802227A44@main2.marlow.com> <07bf01c41745$8bc65630$6601a8c0@HAL9002> Message-ID: <086901c41761$3c9a0590$6601a8c0@HAL9002> Drew: Got rejected again. Is it the attachment? Rocky ----- Original Message ----- From: "Rocky Smolin - Beach Access Software" To: "Access Developers discussion and problem solving" Sent: Wednesday, March 31, 2004 9:28 AM Subject: Re: [AccessD] OT: A survey from somebody not as well-connected as JC > Yeah. But the address I got from the email was uppercase DWUTKA as you can > see in the FROM line below and in your email it's lower case. Shouldn't > make a difference but I just re-sent it to the lower case address. Stand > by... > > Rocky > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: > To: > Sent: Wednesday, March 31, 2004 9:00 AM > Subject: RE: [AccessD] OT: A survey from somebody not as well-connected as > JC > > > > Did you send it to dwutka at marlow.com ? I should be able to handle 1.5 > megs > > (have 10 megs left in my mailbox) > > > > Drew > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Rocky Smolin - > > Beach Access Software > > Sent: Wednesday, March 31, 2004 10:53 AM > > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > > Subject: Re: [AccessD] OT: A survey from somebody not as well-connected > > as JC > > > > > > Drew: > > > > Just tried to send you The Sleep Doctor and got rejected. Is there a > better > > address? The attachment is <1.5MB > > > > Rocky Smolin > > Beach Access Software > > http://www.e-z-mrp.com > > > > > > > > ----- The following addresses had permanent fatal errors ----- > > > > (reason: 554 : Sender address rejected: Access > > denied) > > > > ----- Transcript of session follows ----- > > ... while talking to main2.marlow.com.: > > >>> DATA > > <<< 554 : Sender address rejected: Access denied > > 554 5.0.0 Service unavailable > > <<< 554 Error: no valid recipients > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: > > To: > > Sent: Wednesday, March 31, 2004 8:22 AM > > Subject: RE: [AccessD] OT: A survey from somebody not as well-connected as > > JC > > > > > > > LOL. Rocky, Life has been nothing short of hectic for the last few > > months. > > > I KNOW you sent me a test to run, but quite frankly, I know I've rebuilt > > my > > > machine since then, and can't find it. > > > > > > Any way you'll give me another chance to be a beta tester? > > > > > > By the way, and I know this is off topic, but I have an odd 'symptom' I > > > discovered. I've noticed that when I sleep with my CPAP machine, I > don't > > > remember my dreams when I wake up. However, when I don't sleep with it, > > > then I can vividly remember my dreams for as long as I want (I can think > > > about them the whole day if I want too). > > > > > > Drew > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > > > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Rocky Smolin - > > > Beach Access Software > > > Sent: Wednesday, March 31, 2004 12:07 AM > > > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > > > Subject: Re: [AccessD] OT: A survey from somebody not as well-connected > > > as JC > > > > > > > > > John: > > > > > > Do you snore? Loudly? Are you very tired upon waking up in the > morning? > > > Is you neck circumference over 16 inches? Might you fall asleep while > > > watching TV? Does your wife say you stop breathing or gasp for air > while > > > you sleep? Is you body mass index over 26? > > > > > > If you answered yes to any of the above questions you need to be a Sleep > > > Doctor beta tester. Let The Sleep Doctor help. Simply reply to > > > bchacc at san.rr.com and say 'I wanna be a beta tester!'. Operators are > > > standing by... > > > > > > Rocky Smolin > > > Beach Access Software > > > http://www.e-z-mrp.com > > > > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > From: "John Bartow" > > > To: "Access Developers discussion and problem solving" > > > > > > Sent: Tuesday, March 30, 2004 8:55 PM > > > Subject: RE: [AccessD] OT: A survey from somebody not as well-connected > as > > > JC > > > > > > > > > > Good thing my wife doesn't read this or she'd order a copy to analyze > me > > > > right now :o) > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > > > > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Rocky > Smolin - > > > > Beach Access Software > > > > Sent: Tuesday, March 30, 2004 10:39 PM > > > > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > > > > Subject: Re: [AccessD] OT: A survey from somebody not as > well-connected > > > > as JC > > > > > > > > > > > > Sure. I estimate it will take to the end of the year before I see any > > > real > > > > results. > > > > > > > > I've got another product cooking as well - analyzes sleep disorders. > > Been > > > > working on it with an expert in the field for 4-5 years (not > > continuously, > > > > of course). Might be able to launch it this year. > > > > > > > > Do you want to be a beta tester? > > > > > > > > Rocky > > > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > > From: "Kath Pelletti" > > > > To: "Access Developers discussion and problem solving" > > > > > > > > Sent: Tuesday, March 30, 2004 8:23 PM > > > > Subject: Re: [AccessD] OT: A survey from somebody not as > well-connected > > as > > > > JC > > > > > > > > > > > > Well I wish you the very best of luck...can you let us know how the > > sales > > > > go? > > > > > > > > Kath > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > > From: Rocky Smolin - Beach Access Software > > > > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > > > > Sent: Wednesday, March 31, 2004 9:42 AM > > > > Subject: Re: [AccessD] OT: A survey from somebody not as > > well-connected > > > as > > > > JC > > > > > > > > > > > > Kath: > > > > > > > > In the 'old' days when I was flogging this package in DOS, I thought > > > that > > > > some of them would be sold by word of mouth, people seeing it, or > the > > > > reports that got passed around (which all had my company name in the > > > > footer). So I always wanted everyone to have the latest version. > So > > I > > > > didn't charge for it. It was in my self-interest to have them use > the > > > > most > > > > recent release. And I'm still going to keep to that policy for this > > new > > > > version. > > > > > > > > If I add a module, like Order Entry, everybody will get it at no > cost. > > > > With > > > > distribution by web, there really is no overhead cost to me to > > > distribute > > > > it. And good product sells more product. > > > > > > > > I promote the product support as a 'free phone in consulting service > > on > > > > any > > > > question related to the software OR manufacturing systems' for the > > first > > > > year, and $300 a year after that (about 10% of the purchase price). > > > > > > > > In the past I had a lot of conversations with people about > > manufacturing > > > > issues - how to structure a bill of materials, how to make up a part > > > > numbering scheme, how to solve a particular work order problem, > etc - > > > and > > > > very few questions about how to actually run the software. This > added > > a > > > > LOT > > > > of value to the product and didn't really take very much time. > > > > > > > > The key is to make a product which is so user stupid that anybody > who > > > can > > > > read and count to 20 can run it. Then you don't get the same > question > > > 20 > > > > times a day, like 'how do I run a costed inventory report?'. > > > > > > > > If a user doesn't want to pay the yearly maintenance then they don't > > get > > > > the > > > > phone support. I could tell them they don't get the new releases as > > > well > > > > but that works against me salewise. Many people didn't pay for the > > > > support > > > > after the first couple of years because they never called me for > > > anything. > > > > > > > > The other key, of course, it goes without saying, is to make the > > product > > > > so > > > > solid that it doesn't generate bugs and errors. Then you don't get > > any > > > > support calls. > > > > > > > > BTW - I'm not a marketer or salesy type person, either. But if you > > have > > > > something you believe in it's not really selling. And I really > > believe > > > in > > > > this product (why not, I invented it?). I just present the product > > and > > > if > > > > they like it fine. They buy it. If not, it's like pushing on a > > string. > > > > > > > > I always wanted people to feel like they got more than they expected > > and > > > > when you sell hard you overhype, raise expectations, and end up with > > > > customers who expect more than you have to give. > > > > > > > > When people buy E-Z-MRP they feel like they just bought a dollar for > > > fifty > > > > cents. That makes selling a lot easier, too. > > > > > > > > I suppose that's why I'm successful but not rich. :) > > > > > > > > HTH > > > > > > > > Rocky Smolin > > > > Beach Access Software > > > > http://www.e-z-mrp.com > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > > From: "Kath Pelletti" > > > > To: "Access Developers discussion and problem solving" > > > > > > > > Sent: Tuesday, March 30, 2004 2:59 PM > > > > Subject: Re: [AccessD] OT: A survey from somebody not as > > well-connected > > > as > > > > JC > > > > > > > > > > > > Rocky - out of interest - what support arrangements / fees are you > > > > offering? > > > > > > > > Kath > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > > From: Rocky Smolin - Beach Access Software > > > > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > > > > Sent: Wednesday, March 31, 2004 8:48 AM > > > > Subject: Re: [AccessD] OT: A survey from somebody not as > > > well-connected > > > > as > > > > JC > > > > > > > > > > > > Andy: > > > > > > > > Don't envy me. They jury's still out. I've got a bit of a buffer > so > > > we > > > > won't miss any meals, but that can't go on forever. I've had two > > good > > > > products and several bad ones. At least this time I'm starting in > > an > > > > economy that's on the upswing. > > > > > > > > But I've always been a bootstrap kind of guy - we're doing a > mailing > > > in > > > > San > > > > Diego county this month. Hopefully snag two or three systems. > Then > > > use > > > > that money to mail again in another county. Build it up slowly. > > > > Instead > > > > of > > > > mortgaging the house. > > > > > > > > I'm still doing some fee-for-service as well. So that keeps some > of > > > the > > > > lights on. > > > > > > > > It's a high wire act for sure. But when it does work, it's a > thing > > of > > > > beauty. > > > > > > > > Rocky > > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > > > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > > > > > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Andy > > Lacey > > > > > Sent: Tuesday, March 30, 2004 1:18 PM > > > > > To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' > > > > > Subject: RE: [AccessD] OT: A survey from somebody not as > > > > well-connected > > > > > as JC > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I envy Rocky (sort of) but won't be trying to emulate him. Been > > > there, > > > > tried > > > > > that, and failed. Problem with the product thing is that you > have > > to > > > > > metamorphose from developer into marketer, and I couldn't. Not > my > > > > thing > > > > at > > > > > all. Plus IME it involves sinking money into advertising, > mailing, > > > > > brochures, websites nd so on. You have to be prepared to risk > big > > > > outlay > > > > > against no guarantee of return. Done that 2 or 3 times to great > > cost > > > > and > > > > no > > > > > great return. Won't be doing it again. > > > > > > > > > > -- Andy Lacey > > > > > http://www.minstersystems.co.uk > > > > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > > > > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > > > > > > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of > > > > > > Steven W. Erbach > > > > > > Sent: 30 March 2004 04:16 > > > > > > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > > > > > > Subject: Re: [AccessD] OT: A survey from somebody not as > > > > > > well-connected as JC > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > William, > > > > > > > > > > > > >> ...don't take this the wrong way << > > > > > > > > > > > > I won't. I appreciate your point of view. I have gotten > > > > > > caught up in the tools as if owning the right brand of socket > > > > > > wrench will guarantee me a living. > > > > > > > > > > > > But I hear you on the client-centered approach. I've worked > > > > > > on lots of things that were outside of my skill-set comfort > > zone. > > > > > > > > > > > > I talked with a friend recently about my business and he > > > > > > asked if there was anything I specialized in. I told him no; > > > > > > my business is producing custom solutions to solve customer > > > > > > problems. He recommended a product-centered approach, like > > > > > > what Rocky is aiming for. I have a long-term care facility > > > > > > marketing and donations program I wrote that might fill the > > > > > > bill. We'll see. > > > > > > > > > > > > >> ...but I'm just me and don't have any intention of ever > > > > > > working hard > > > > > > >> again << > > > > > > > > > > > > Not really an option for me as we're having some tough times > > > > > > financially. I can dig the varietal nature of your work, > > > > > > though. Thanks. > > > > > > > > > > > > Regards, > > > > > > > > > > > > Steve Erbach > > > > > > Scientific Marketing > > > > > > Neenah, WI > > > > > > > > > > > > "You must be an intellectual. No normal person would say a > > > > > > thing like that." - George Orwell > > > > > > > > > > > > -- > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > > > > AccessD mailing list > > > > > > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > > > > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/a> ccessd > > > > > > Website: > > > > > > http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -- > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > > > AccessD mailing list > > > > > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > > > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > > > > > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -- > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > > > AccessD mailing list > > > > > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > > > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > > > > > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > > > > > > > > > > -- > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > > AccessD mailing list > > > > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > > > > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > -- > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > > AccessD mailing list > > > > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > > > > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > > > > > -- > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > > AccessD mailing list > > > > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > > > > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > -- > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > > AccessD mailing list > > > > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > > > > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > > > > > -- > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > > AccessD mailing list > > > > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > > > > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -- > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > > AccessD mailing list > > > > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > > > > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > > > > > > > -- > > > _______________________________________________ > > > AccessD mailing list > > > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > > > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > -- > > > _______________________________________________ > > > AccessD mailing list > > > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > > > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > > > > -- > > _______________________________________________ > > AccessD mailing list > > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > -- > > _______________________________________________ > > AccessD mailing list > > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > From mwp.reid at qub.ac.uk Wed Mar 31 14:49:03 2004 From: mwp.reid at qub.ac.uk (Martin Reid) Date: Wed, 31 Mar 2004 21:49:03 +0100 Subject: [AccessD] Access to SQL Server References: <8B98F8EA48F8BA47A2F24E0D0AF40CF407AD805D@xlivmbx12.aig.com> Message-ID: <001101c41761$9d32df80$1b02a8c0@MARTINREID> If your employer/customer asked you to move all your Access databases onto a central SQL Server what problems other than code rewrite would you bring up? What would stop you doing this or maybe think twice before starting? I am working on a project which looks at moving all of an organisations databases to SQL Server over a period of time. This is not a real project but we are trying to see how developers would react to the possibility. I am really interested in the view point of the actual people who may have to do this. One of the areas I am looking at is performance and issues surrounding redesign. for example at the university we have many small Access dbs which duplicate student data. It would be fairly easy to remove this duplication by moving them to SQL Server and linking to a core set of data making it very easy for us to mange this type of installation. Comments.opinions etc appreciated Martin From my.lists at verizon.net Wed Mar 31 14:54:17 2004 From: my.lists at verizon.net (Francisco H Tapia) Date: Wed, 31 Mar 2004 12:54:17 -0800 Subject: [AccessD] New SQL Question In-Reply-To: <001501c41731$c24b07f0$9111758f@aine> References: <20040331085848.1669675382.serbach@new.rr.com> <001501c41731$c24b07f0$9111758f@aine> Message-ID: <406B2FF9.4090809@verizon.net> Martin Reid said the following on 3/31/2004 7:06 AM: >LOL >Seems to be. > >Once I sent the message I set down again and looked at the problem and the >answer was fairly straight forward. Sometimes I think it helps simply by >writing down the problem rather than going around and around inside your >head with it. > >Martin > > ... :|, did Susan hijack your email account? :) -- -Francisco From DWUTKA at marlow.com Wed Mar 31 14:55:27 2004 From: DWUTKA at marlow.com (DWUTKA at marlow.com) Date: Wed, 31 Mar 2004 14:55:27 -0600 Subject: [AccessD] OT: A survey from somebody not as well-connected as JC Message-ID: <2F8793082E00D4119A1700B0D0216BF802227A46@main2.marlow.com> As long as it's not an executable. Rocky, just send me an email, no attachment. Also, what is the rejection saying? Drew -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Rocky Smolin - Beach Access Software Sent: Wednesday, March 31, 2004 2:46 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] OT: A survey from somebody not as well-connected as JC Drew: Got rejected again. Is it the attachment? Rocky ----- Original Message ----- From: "Rocky Smolin - Beach Access Software" To: "Access Developers discussion and problem solving" Sent: Wednesday, March 31, 2004 9:28 AM Subject: Re: [AccessD] OT: A survey from somebody not as well-connected as JC > Yeah. But the address I got from the email was uppercase DWUTKA as you can > see in the FROM line below and in your email it's lower case. Shouldn't > make a difference but I just re-sent it to the lower case address. Stand > by... > > Rocky > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: > To: > Sent: Wednesday, March 31, 2004 9:00 AM > Subject: RE: [AccessD] OT: A survey from somebody not as well-connected as > JC > > > > Did you send it to dwutka at marlow.com ? I should be able to handle 1.5 > megs > > (have 10 megs left in my mailbox) > > > > Drew > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Rocky Smolin - > > Beach Access Software > > Sent: Wednesday, March 31, 2004 10:53 AM > > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > > Subject: Re: [AccessD] OT: A survey from somebody not as well-connected > > as JC > > > > > > Drew: > > > > Just tried to send you The Sleep Doctor and got rejected. Is there a > better > > address? The attachment is <1.5MB > > > > Rocky Smolin > > Beach Access Software > > http://www.e-z-mrp.com > > > > > > > > ----- The following addresses had permanent fatal errors ----- > > > > (reason: 554 : Sender address rejected: Access > > denied) > > > > ----- Transcript of session follows ----- > > ... while talking to main2.marlow.com.: > > >>> DATA > > <<< 554 : Sender address rejected: Access denied > > 554 5.0.0 Service unavailable > > <<< 554 Error: no valid recipients > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: > > To: > > Sent: Wednesday, March 31, 2004 8:22 AM > > Subject: RE: [AccessD] OT: A survey from somebody not as well-connected as > > JC > > > > > > > LOL. Rocky, Life has been nothing short of hectic for the last few > > months. > > > I KNOW you sent me a test to run, but quite frankly, I know I've rebuilt > > my > > > machine since then, and can't find it. > > > > > > Any way you'll give me another chance to be a beta tester? > > > > > > By the way, and I know this is off topic, but I have an odd 'symptom' I > > > discovered. I've noticed that when I sleep with my CPAP machine, I > don't > > > remember my dreams when I wake up. However, when I don't sleep with it, > > > then I can vividly remember my dreams for as long as I want (I can think > > > about them the whole day if I want too). > > > > > > Drew > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > > > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Rocky Smolin - > > > Beach Access Software > > > Sent: Wednesday, March 31, 2004 12:07 AM > > > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > > > Subject: Re: [AccessD] OT: A survey from somebody not as well-connected > > > as JC > > > > > > > > > John: > > > > > > Do you snore? Loudly? Are you very tired upon waking up in the > morning? > > > Is you neck circumference over 16 inches? Might you fall asleep while > > > watching TV? Does your wife say you stop breathing or gasp for air > while > > > you sleep? Is you body mass index over 26? > > > > > > If you answered yes to any of the above questions you need to be a Sleep > > > Doctor beta tester. Let The Sleep Doctor help. Simply reply to > > > bchacc at san.rr.com and say 'I wanna be a beta tester!'. Operators are > > > standing by... > > > > > > Rocky Smolin > > > Beach Access Software > > > http://www.e-z-mrp.com > > > > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > From: "John Bartow" > > > To: "Access Developers discussion and problem solving" > > > > > > Sent: Tuesday, March 30, 2004 8:55 PM > > > Subject: RE: [AccessD] OT: A survey from somebody not as well-connected > as > > > JC > > > > > > > > > > Good thing my wife doesn't read this or she'd order a copy to analyze > me > > > > right now :o) > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > > > > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Rocky > Smolin - > > > > Beach Access Software > > > > Sent: Tuesday, March 30, 2004 10:39 PM > > > > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > > > > Subject: Re: [AccessD] OT: A survey from somebody not as > well-connected > > > > as JC > > > > > > > > > > > > Sure. I estimate it will take to the end of the year before I see any > > > real > > > > results. > > > > > > > > I've got another product cooking as well - analyzes sleep disorders. > > Been > > > > working on it with an expert in the field for 4-5 years (not > > continuously, > > > > of course). Might be able to launch it this year. > > > > > > > > Do you want to be a beta tester? > > > > > > > > Rocky > > > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > > From: "Kath Pelletti" > > > > To: "Access Developers discussion and problem solving" > > > > > > > > Sent: Tuesday, March 30, 2004 8:23 PM > > > > Subject: Re: [AccessD] OT: A survey from somebody not as > well-connected > > as > > > > JC > > > > > > > > > > > > Well I wish you the very best of luck...can you let us know how the > > sales > > > > go? > > > > > > > > Kath > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > > From: Rocky Smolin - Beach Access Software > > > > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > > > > Sent: Wednesday, March 31, 2004 9:42 AM > > > > Subject: Re: [AccessD] OT: A survey from somebody not as > > well-connected > > > as > > > > JC > > > > > > > > > > > > Kath: > > > > > > > > In the 'old' days when I was flogging this package in DOS, I thought > > > that > > > > some of them would be sold by word of mouth, people seeing it, or > the > > > > reports that got passed around (which all had my company name in the > > > > footer). So I always wanted everyone to have the latest version. > So > > I > > > > didn't charge for it. It was in my self-interest to have them use > the > > > > most > > > > recent release. And I'm still going to keep to that policy for this > > new > > > > version. > > > > > > > > If I add a module, like Order Entry, everybody will get it at no > cost. > > > > With > > > > distribution by web, there really is no overhead cost to me to > > > distribute > > > > it. And good product sells more product. > > > > > > > > I promote the product support as a 'free phone in consulting service > > on > > > > any > > > > question related to the software OR manufacturing systems' for the > > first > > > > year, and $300 a year after that (about 10% of the purchase price). > > > > > > > > In the past I had a lot of conversations with people about > > manufacturing > > > > issues - how to structure a bill of materials, how to make up a part > > > > numbering scheme, how to solve a particular work order problem, > etc - > > > and > > > > very few questions about how to actually run the software. This > added > > a > > > > LOT > > > > of value to the product and didn't really take very much time. > > > > > > > > The key is to make a product which is so user stupid that anybody > who > > > can > > > > read and count to 20 can run it. Then you don't get the same > question > > > 20 > > > > times a day, like 'how do I run a costed inventory report?'. > > > > > > > > If a user doesn't want to pay the yearly maintenance then they don't > > get > > > > the > > > > phone support. I could tell them they don't get the new releases as > > > well > > > > but that works against me salewise. Many people didn't pay for the > > > > support > > > > after the first couple of years because they never called me for > > > anything. > > > > > > > > The other key, of course, it goes without saying, is to make the > > product > > > > so > > > > solid that it doesn't generate bugs and errors. Then you don't get > > any > > > > support calls. > > > > > > > > BTW - I'm not a marketer or salesy type person, either. But if you > > have > > > > something you believe in it's not really selling. And I really > > believe > > > in > > > > this product (why not, I invented it?). I just present the product > > and > > > if > > > > they like it fine. They buy it. If not, it's like pushing on a > > string. > > > > > > > > I always wanted people to feel like they got more than they expected > > and > > > > when you sell hard you overhype, raise expectations, and end up with > > > > customers who expect more than you have to give. > > > > > > > > When people buy E-Z-MRP they feel like they just bought a dollar for > > > fifty > > > > cents. That makes selling a lot easier, too. > > > > > > > > I suppose that's why I'm successful but not rich. :) > > > > > > > > HTH > > > > > > > > Rocky Smolin > > > > Beach Access Software > > > > http://www.e-z-mrp.com > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > > From: "Kath Pelletti" > > > > To: "Access Developers discussion and problem solving" > > > > > > > > Sent: Tuesday, March 30, 2004 2:59 PM > > > > Subject: Re: [AccessD] OT: A survey from somebody not as > > well-connected > > > as > > > > JC > > > > > > > > > > > > Rocky - out of interest - what support arrangements / fees are you > > > > offering? > > > > > > > > Kath > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > > From: Rocky Smolin - Beach Access Software > > > > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > > > > Sent: Wednesday, March 31, 2004 8:48 AM > > > > Subject: Re: [AccessD] OT: A survey from somebody not as > > > well-connected > > > > as > > > > JC > > > > > > > > > > > > Andy: > > > > > > > > Don't envy me. They jury's still out. I've got a bit of a buffer > so > > > we > > > > won't miss any meals, but that can't go on forever. I've had two > > good > > > > products and several bad ones. At least this time I'm starting in > > an > > > > economy that's on the upswing. > > > > > > > > But I've always been a bootstrap kind of guy - we're doing a > mailing > > > in > > > > San > > > > Diego county this month. Hopefully snag two or three systems. > Then > > > use > > > > that money to mail again in another county. Build it up slowly. > > > > Instead > > > > of > > > > mortgaging the house. > > > > > > > > I'm still doing some fee-for-service as well. So that keeps some > of > > > the > > > > lights on. > > > > > > > > It's a high wire act for sure. But when it does work, it's a > thing > > of > > > > beauty. > > > > > > > > Rocky > > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > > > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > > > > > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Andy > > Lacey > > > > > Sent: Tuesday, March 30, 2004 1:18 PM > > > > > To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' > > > > > Subject: RE: [AccessD] OT: A survey from somebody not as > > > > well-connected > > > > > as JC > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I envy Rocky (sort of) but won't be trying to emulate him. Been > > > there, > > > > tried > > > > > that, and failed. Problem with the product thing is that you > have > > to > > > > > metamorphose from developer into marketer, and I couldn't. Not > my > > > > thing > > > > at > > > > > all. Plus IME it involves sinking money into advertising, > mailing, > > > > > brochures, websites nd so on. You have to be prepared to risk > big > > > > outlay > > > > > against no guarantee of return. Done that 2 or 3 times to great > > cost > > > > and > > > > no > > > > > great return. Won't be doing it again. > > > > > > > > > > -- Andy Lacey > > > > > http://www.minstersystems.co.uk > > > > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > > > > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > > > > > > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of > > > > > > Steven W. Erbach > > > > > > Sent: 30 March 2004 04:16 > > > > > > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > > > > > > Subject: Re: [AccessD] OT: A survey from somebody not as > > > > > > well-connected as JC > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > William, > > > > > > > > > > > > >> ...don't take this the wrong way << > > > > > > > > > > > > I won't. I appreciate your point of view. I have gotten > > > > > > caught up in the tools as if owning the right brand of socket > > > > > > wrench will guarantee me a living. > > > > > > > > > > > > But I hear you on the client-centered approach. I've worked > > > > > > on lots of things that were outside of my skill-set comfort > > zone. > > > > > > > > > > > > I talked with a friend recently about my business and he > > > > > > asked if there was anything I specialized in. I told him no; > > > > > > my business is producing custom solutions to solve customer > > > > > > problems. He recommended a product-centered approach, like > > > > > > what Rocky is aiming for. I have a long-term care facility > > > > > > marketing and donations program I wrote that might fill the > > > > > > bill. We'll see. > > > > > > > > > > > > >> ...but I'm just me and don't have any intention of ever > > > > > > working hard > > > > > > >> again << > > > > > > > > > > > > Not really an option for me as we're having some tough times > > > > > > financially. I can dig the varietal nature of your work, > > > > > > though. Thanks. > > > > > > > > > > > > Regards, > > > > > > > > > > > > Steve Erbach > > > > > > Scientific Marketing > > > > > > Neenah, WI > > > > > > > > > > > > "You must be an intellectual. No normal person would say a > > > > > > thing like that." - George Orwell > > > > > > > > > > > > -- > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > > > > AccessD mailing list > > > > > > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > > > > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/a> ccessd > > > > > > Website: > > > > > > http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -- > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > > > AccessD mailing list > > > > > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > > > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > > > > > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -- > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > > > AccessD mailing list > > > > > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > > > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > > > > > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > > > > > > > > > > -- > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > > AccessD mailing list > > > > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > > > > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > -- > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > > AccessD mailing list > > > > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > > > > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > > > > > -- > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > > AccessD mailing list > > > > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > > > > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > -- > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > > AccessD mailing list > > > > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > > > > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > > > > > -- > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > > AccessD mailing list > > > > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > > > > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -- > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > > AccessD mailing list > > > > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > > > > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > > > > > > > -- > > > _______________________________________________ > > > AccessD mailing list > > > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > > > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > -- > > > _______________________________________________ > > > AccessD mailing list > > > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > > > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > > > > -- > > _______________________________________________ > > AccessD mailing list > > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > -- > > _______________________________________________ > > AccessD mailing list > > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From my.lists at verizon.net Wed Mar 31 14:57:09 2004 From: my.lists at verizon.net (Francisco H Tapia) Date: Wed, 31 Mar 2004 12:57:09 -0800 Subject: [AccessD] Access to SQL Server In-Reply-To: <001101c41761$9d32df80$1b02a8c0@MARTINREID> References: <8B98F8EA48F8BA47A2F24E0D0AF40CF407AD805D@xlivmbx12.aig.com> <001101c41761$9d32df80$1b02a8c0@MARTINREID> Message-ID: <406B30A5.1020609@verizon.net> dejavu... QUICK if someone knows an alternate email address or phone number, quick email him and tell him someone has hijacked his account :|, :)... wasn't this question asked already? Martin Reid said the following on 3/31/2004 12:49 PM: >If your employer/customer asked you to move all your Access databases onto a >central SQL Server what problems other than code rewrite would you bring up? > >What would stop you doing this or maybe think twice before starting? > >I am working on a project which looks at moving all of an organisations >databases to SQL Server over a period of time. This is not a real project >but we are trying to see how developers would react to the possibility. I am >really interested in the view point of the actual people who may have to do >this. > >One of the areas I am looking at is performance and issues surrounding >redesign. for example at the university we have many small Access dbs which >duplicate student data. It would be fairly easy to remove this duplication >by moving them to SQL Server and linking to a core set of data making it >very easy for us to mange this type of installation. > >Comments.opinions etc appreciated > > >Martin > > > -- -Francisco From mwp.reid at qub.ac.uk Wed Mar 31 15:03:37 2004 From: mwp.reid at qub.ac.uk (Martin Reid) Date: Wed, 31 Mar 2004 22:03:37 +0100 Subject: [AccessD] Access to SQL Server References: <8B98F8EA48F8BA47A2F24E0D0AF40CF407AD805D@xlivmbx12.aig.com><001101c41761$9d32df80$1b02a8c0@MARTINREID> <406B30A5.1020609@verizon.net> Message-ID: <000f01c41763$a46462e0$1b02a8c0@MARTINREID> LOL It was but in a slightly different way. (<: I only got two responses so was hoping for a bit more input this time. Martin ----- Original Message ----- From: "Francisco H Tapia" To: "Access Developers discussion and problem solving" Sent: Wednesday, March 31, 2004 9:57 PM Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access to SQL Server > dejavu... QUICK if someone knows an alternate email address or phone > number, quick email him and tell him someone has hijacked his account > :|, :)... > > wasn't this question asked already? > > Martin Reid said the following on 3/31/2004 12:49 PM: > > >If your employer/customer asked you to move all your Access databases onto a > >central SQL Server what problems other than code rewrite would you bring up? > > > >What would stop you doing this or maybe think twice before starting? > > > >I am working on a project which looks at moving all of an organisations > >databases to SQL Server over a period of time. This is not a real project > >but we are trying to see how developers would react to the possibility. I am > >really interested in the view point of the actual people who may have to do > >this. > > > >One of the areas I am looking at is performance and issues surrounding > >redesign. for example at the university we have many small Access dbs which > >duplicate student data. It would be fairly easy to remove this duplication > >by moving them to SQL Server and linking to a core set of data making it > >very easy for us to mange this type of installation. > > > >Comments.opinions etc appreciated > > > > > >Martin > > > > > > > > > -- > -Francisco > > > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > From bchacc at san.rr.com Wed Mar 31 15:10:25 2004 From: bchacc at san.rr.com (Rocky Smolin - Beach Access Software) Date: Wed, 31 Mar 2004 13:10:25 -0800 Subject: [AccessD] Fw: Returned mail: see transcript for details Message-ID: <08d601c41764$9622d490$6601a8c0@HAL9002> Drew: Here's the rejection I'm getting from your email address. On closer inspection, it appears to be me they're rejecting. I'm hurt. :( Rocky ----- Original Message ----- From: "Rocky Smolin - Beach Access Software" To: Sent: Wednesday, March 31, 2004 1:08 PM Subject: Fw: Returned mail: see transcript for details > Drew: > > Here's the rejection. > > Rocky > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Mail Delivery Subsystem" > To: > Sent: Wednesday, March 31, 2004 9:39 AM > Subject: Returned mail: see transcript for details > > > > The original message was received at Wed, 31 Mar 2004 09:38:56 -0800 (PST) > > from 24-25-217-158.san.rr.com [24.25.217.158] > > > > ----- The following addresses had permanent fatal errors ----- > > > > (reason: 554 : Sender address rejected: Access > denied) > > > > ----- Transcript of session follows ----- > > ... while talking to main2.marlow.com.: > > >>> DATA > > <<< 554 : Sender address rejected: Access denied > > 554 5.0.0 Service unavailable > > <<< 554 Error: no valid recipients > > > > > -------------------------------------------------------------------------- -- > ---- > > > > Received: from HAL9002 (24-25-217-158.san.rr.com [24.25.217.158]) > > by ms-smtp-03-eri0.socal.rr.com (8.12.10/8.12.7) with SMTP id > i2VHcuUL013549 > > for ; Wed, 31 Mar 2004 09:38:56 -0800 (PST) > > Message-ID: <07f401c41747$10170f00$6601a8c0 at HAL9002> > > From: "Rocky Smolin - Beach Access Software" > > To: > > Subject: Fw: Returned mail: see transcript for details > > Date: Wed, 31 Mar 2004 09:39:04 -0800 > > MIME-Version: 1.0 > > Content-Type: multipart/mixed; > > boundary="----=_NextPart_000_07F1_01C41704.01B5B490" > > X-Priority: 3 > > X-MSMail-Priority: Normal > > X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158 > > X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 > > X-Virus-Scanned: Symantec AntiVirus Scan Engine > > > From ssharkins at bellsouth.net Wed Mar 31 15:17:16 2004 From: ssharkins at bellsouth.net (Susan Harkins) Date: Wed, 31 Mar 2004 16:17:16 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Access to SQL Server In-Reply-To: <001101c41761$9d32df80$1b02a8c0@MARTINREID> Message-ID: <20040331211714.JSBY1775.imf19aec.mail.bellsouth.net@SUSANONE> Martin, don't forget administration and maintenance -- SQL Server's not like Access -- you don't just set it on a server and forget it until it needs compacting or repairing. Don't you think it would require new personnel for that many -- not to mention new training. You've already thought of those issues though, I'm sure. Susan H. If your employer/customer asked you to move all your Access databases onto a central SQL Server what problems other than code rewrite would you bring up? From ssharkins at bellsouth.net Wed Mar 31 15:18:02 2004 From: ssharkins at bellsouth.net (Susan Harkins) Date: Wed, 31 Mar 2004 16:18:02 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] New SQL Question In-Reply-To: <406B2FF9.4090809@verizon.net> Message-ID: <20040331211801.JSQL1775.imf19aec.mail.bellsouth.net@SUSANONE> OK, now it's personal!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! ;) Susan H. > ... :|, did Susan hijack your email account? :) From my.lists at verizon.net Wed Mar 31 15:41:24 2004 From: my.lists at verizon.net (Francisco H Tapia) Date: Wed, 31 Mar 2004 13:41:24 -0800 Subject: [AccessD] Access to SQL Server In-Reply-To: <406B30A5.1020609@verizon.net> References: <8B98F8EA48F8BA47A2F24E0D0AF40CF407AD805D@xlivmbx12.aig.com> <001101c41761$9d32df80$1b02a8c0@MARTINREID> <406B30A5.1020609@verizon.net> Message-ID: <406B3B04.8080406@verizon.net> > Martin Reid said the following on 3/31/2004 12:49 PM: > >> If your employer/customer asked you to move all your Access databases >> onto a >> central SQL Server what problems other than code rewrite would you >> bring up? > As with anything in what we do, "it depends". There is more than just code re-write especially if any of the suspected databases are not full normalized, and possibly need to be. Many times there is duplicated data across many databases in an organization because many sprouted through departmental needs rather than enterprise. This is in addition to the overhead of simply normalizing your databases individually, now you're looking at possibly consolidation throughout the many databases. There are space constraints on the servers as well, thus proper planning and space allocation planning is a must. >> What would stop you doing this or maybe think twice before starting? > A consolidated effort of this magnitude, imnsho requires full understanding of the mission each database had in mind when it was created. By this I mean what was the purpose of having yet another MDB (or dbx or whatever). The answers help shape the path and scope of the project. Often writing a full Spec sheet on each database will ease understanding. But as has been my experience w/ the users of such databases, the critical points are often missed. >> One of the areas I am looking at is performance and issues surrounding >> redesign. for example at the university we have many small Access dbs >> which >> duplicate student data. It would be fairly easy to remove this >> duplication >> by moving them to SQL Server and linking to a core set of data making it >> very easy for us to mange this type of installation. > performance is depends on a really good dba. Things such as IO, disk controllers, cpu's and bandwidth all affect it. So if you don't have a dba, or one w/ very little skills, then your Sql Server architecture is in great peril. -- -Francisco From johnskolits at corporatedatadesign.com Wed Mar 31 15:48:27 2004 From: johnskolits at corporatedatadesign.com (John Skolits) Date: Wed, 31 Mar 2004 16:48:27 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Snapshot Viewer to text In-Reply-To: <1338946814.20040331111746@cactus.dk> Message-ID: <007401c41769$e6b19860$0f01a8c0@cddserver2> Hey Gustav, That worked pretty well! Thanks! -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Gustav Brock Sent: Wednesday, March 31, 2004 4:18 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Snapshot Viewer to text Hi John You could print to a pdf file via a PDF-printer. Then open the pdf file in Adobe viewer and copy/paste the text you need. /gustav > Anyone know if you can take a snapshot viewer file and convert it to > text? -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From DWUTKA at marlow.com Wed Mar 31 15:49:08 2004 From: DWUTKA at marlow.com (DWUTKA at marlow.com) Date: Wed, 31 Mar 2004 15:49:08 -0600 Subject: [AccessD] Fw: Returned mail: see transcript for details Message-ID: <2F8793082E00D4119A1700B0D0216BF802227A49@main2.marlow.com> We recently purchased a hardware based spam blocker. (I like/hate it.) It does a great job with spams, but has been having a lot of false positives. (Things like ... in an email get the whole thing blocked.) Drew -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Rocky Smolin - Beach Access Software Sent: Wednesday, March 31, 2004 3:10 PM To: AccessD at databaseadvisors.com Subject: [AccessD] Fw: Returned mail: see transcript for details Drew: Here's the rejection I'm getting from your email address. On closer inspection, it appears to be me they're rejecting. I'm hurt. :( Rocky ----- Original Message ----- From: "Rocky Smolin - Beach Access Software" To: Sent: Wednesday, March 31, 2004 1:08 PM Subject: Fw: Returned mail: see transcript for details > Drew: > > Here's the rejection. > > Rocky > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Mail Delivery Subsystem" > To: > Sent: Wednesday, March 31, 2004 9:39 AM > Subject: Returned mail: see transcript for details > > > > The original message was received at Wed, 31 Mar 2004 09:38:56 -0800 (PST) > > from 24-25-217-158.san.rr.com [24.25.217.158] > > > > ----- The following addresses had permanent fatal errors ----- > > > > (reason: 554 : Sender address rejected: Access > denied) > > > > ----- Transcript of session follows ----- > > ... while talking to main2.marlow.com.: > > >>> DATA > > <<< 554 : Sender address rejected: Access denied > > 554 5.0.0 Service unavailable > > <<< 554 Error: no valid recipients > > > > > -------------------------------------------------------------------------- -- > ---- > > > > Received: from HAL9002 (24-25-217-158.san.rr.com [24.25.217.158]) > > by ms-smtp-03-eri0.socal.rr.com (8.12.10/8.12.7) with SMTP id > i2VHcuUL013549 > > for ; Wed, 31 Mar 2004 09:38:56 -0800 (PST) > > Message-ID: <07f401c41747$10170f00$6601a8c0 at HAL9002> > > From: "Rocky Smolin - Beach Access Software" > > To: > > Subject: Fw: Returned mail: see transcript for details > > Date: Wed, 31 Mar 2004 09:39:04 -0800 > > MIME-Version: 1.0 > > Content-Type: multipart/mixed; > > boundary="----=_NextPart_000_07F1_01C41704.01B5B490" > > X-Priority: 3 > > X-MSMail-Priority: Normal > > X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158 > > X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 > > X-Virus-Scanned: Symantec AntiVirus Scan Engine > > > -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From bchacc at san.rr.com Wed Mar 31 16:00:57 2004 From: bchacc at san.rr.com (Rocky Smolin - Beach Access Software) Date: Wed, 31 Mar 2004 14:00:57 -0800 Subject: [AccessD] Fw: Returned mail: see transcript for details References: <2F8793082E00D4119A1700B0D0216BF802227A49@main2.marlow.com> Message-ID: <091501c4176b$a5a32ad0$6601a8c0@HAL9002> Drew: How can I get past it? Or can you FTP from my web site? Of course, I can't even send you FTP instructions because it will block my email, yes? Rocky ----- Original Message ----- From: To: Sent: Wednesday, March 31, 2004 1:49 PM Subject: RE: [AccessD] Fw: Returned mail: see transcript for details > We recently purchased a hardware based spam blocker. (I like/hate it.) It > does a great job with spams, but has been having a lot of false positives. > (Things like ... in an email get the whole thing blocked.) > > Drew > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Rocky Smolin - > Beach Access Software > Sent: Wednesday, March 31, 2004 3:10 PM > To: AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > Subject: [AccessD] Fw: Returned mail: see transcript for details > > > Drew: > > Here's the rejection I'm getting from your email address. On closer > inspection, it appears to be me they're rejecting. I'm hurt. :( > > Rocky > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Rocky Smolin - Beach Access Software" > To: > Sent: Wednesday, March 31, 2004 1:08 PM > Subject: Fw: Returned mail: see transcript for details > > > > Drew: > > > > Here's the rejection. > > > > Rocky > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: "Mail Delivery Subsystem" > > > To: > > Sent: Wednesday, March 31, 2004 9:39 AM > > Subject: Returned mail: see transcript for details > > > > > > > The original message was received at Wed, 31 Mar 2004 09:38:56 -0800 > (PST) > > > from 24-25-217-158.san.rr.com [24.25.217.158] > > > > > > ----- The following addresses had permanent fatal errors ----- > > > > > > (reason: 554 : Sender address rejected: Access > > denied) > > > > > > ----- Transcript of session follows ----- > > > ... while talking to main2.marlow.com.: > > > >>> DATA > > > <<< 554 : Sender address rejected: Access denied > > > 554 5.0.0 Service unavailable > > > <<< 554 Error: no valid recipients > > > > > > > > > -------------------------------------------------------------------------- > -- > > ---- > > > > > > > Received: from HAL9002 (24-25-217-158.san.rr.com [24.25.217.158]) > > > by ms-smtp-03-eri0.socal.rr.com (8.12.10/8.12.7) with SMTP id > > i2VHcuUL013549 > > > for ; Wed, 31 Mar 2004 09:38:56 -0800 (PST) > > > Message-ID: <07f401c41747$10170f00$6601a8c0 at HAL9002> > > > From: "Rocky Smolin - Beach Access Software" > > > To: > > > Subject: Fw: Returned mail: see transcript for details > > > Date: Wed, 31 Mar 2004 09:39:04 -0800 > > > MIME-Version: 1.0 > > > Content-Type: multipart/mixed; > > > boundary="----=_NextPart_000_07F1_01C41704.01B5B490" > > > X-Priority: 3 > > > X-MSMail-Priority: Normal > > > X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158 > > > X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 > > > X-Virus-Scanned: Symantec AntiVirus Scan Engine > > > > > > > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > From bchacc at san.rr.com Wed Mar 31 16:12:50 2004 From: bchacc at san.rr.com (Rocky Smolin - Beach Access Software) Date: Wed, 31 Mar 2004 14:12:50 -0800 Subject: Fw: [AccessD] Fw: Returned mail: see transcript for details Message-ID: <094001c4176d$4e37cb50$6601a8c0@HAL9002> Drew: How can I get past it? Or can you FTP from my web site? Of course, I can't even send you FTP instructions because it will block my email, yes? Rocky > ----- Original Message ----- > From: > To: > Sent: Wednesday, March 31, 2004 1:49 PM > Subject: RE: [AccessD] Fw: Returned mail: see transcript for details > > > > We recently purchased a hardware based spam blocker. (I like/hate it.) > It > > does a great job with spams, but has been having a lot of false positives. > > (Things like ... in an email get the whole thing blocked.) > > > > Drew > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Rocky Smolin - > > Beach Access Software > > Sent: Wednesday, March 31, 2004 3:10 PM > > To: AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > Subject: [AccessD] Fw: Returned mail: see transcript for details > > > > > > Drew: > > > > Here's the rejection I'm getting from your email address. On closer > > inspection, it appears to be me they're rejecting. I'm hurt. :( > > > > Rocky > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: "Rocky Smolin - Beach Access Software" > > To: > > Sent: Wednesday, March 31, 2004 1:08 PM > > Subject: Fw: Returned mail: see transcript for details > > > > > > > Drew: > > > > > > Here's the rejection. > > > > > > Rocky > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > From: "Mail Delivery Subsystem" > > > > > To: > > > Sent: Wednesday, March 31, 2004 9:39 AM > > > Subject: Returned mail: see transcript for details > > > > > > > > > > The original message was received at Wed, 31 Mar 2004 09:38:56 -0800 > > (PST) > > > > from 24-25-217-158.san.rr.com [24.25.217.158] > > > > > > > > ----- The following addresses had permanent fatal errors ----- > > > > > > > > (reason: 554 : Sender address rejected: Access > > > denied) > > > > > > > > ----- Transcript of session follows ----- > > > > ... while talking to main2.marlow.com.: > > > > >>> DATA > > > > <<< 554 : Sender address rejected: Access denied > > > > 554 5.0.0 Service unavailable > > > > <<< 554 Error: no valid recipients > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -------------------------------------------------------------------------- > > -- > > > ---- > > > > > > > > > > Received: from HAL9002 (24-25-217-158.san.rr.com [24.25.217.158]) > > > > by ms-smtp-03-eri0.socal.rr.com (8.12.10/8.12.7) with SMTP id > > > i2VHcuUL013549 > > > > for ; Wed, 31 Mar 2004 09:38:56 -0800 (PST) > > > > Message-ID: <07f401c41747$10170f00$6601a8c0 at HAL9002> > > > > From: "Rocky Smolin - Beach Access Software" > > > > To: > > > > Subject: Fw: Returned mail: see transcript for details > > > > Date: Wed, 31 Mar 2004 09:39:04 -0800 > > > > MIME-Version: 1.0 > > > > Content-Type: multipart/mixed; > > > > boundary="----=_NextPart_000_07F1_01C41704.01B5B490" > > > > X-Priority: 3 > > > > X-MSMail-Priority: Normal > > > > X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158 > > > > X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 > > > > X-Virus-Scanned: Symantec AntiVirus Scan Engine > > > > > > > > > > > -- > > _______________________________________________ > > AccessD mailing list > > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > -- > > _______________________________________________ > > AccessD mailing list > > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > From DWUTKA at marlow.com Wed Mar 31 16:22:54 2004 From: DWUTKA at marlow.com (DWUTKA at marlow.com) Date: Wed, 31 Mar 2004 16:22:54 -0600 Subject: [AccessD] Fw: Returned mail: see transcript for details Message-ID: <2F8793082E00D4119A1700B0D0216BF802227A4C@main2.marlow.com> Yep, Mark is handling our Spam now (my co-worker). He said that the rr.com domain sends us a LOT of spam, so it's blacklisted. Send it to my home address of drewshome at wolfwares.com. (Sorry didn't post that earlier, been swamped today). Drew -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Rocky Smolin - Beach Access Software Sent: Wednesday, March 31, 2004 4:13 PM To: AccessD at databaseadvisors.com Subject: Fw: [AccessD] Fw: Returned mail: see transcript for details Drew: How can I get past it? Or can you FTP from my web site? Of course, I can't even send you FTP instructions because it will block my email, yes? Rocky > ----- Original Message ----- > From: > To: > Sent: Wednesday, March 31, 2004 1:49 PM > Subject: RE: [AccessD] Fw: Returned mail: see transcript for details > > > > We recently purchased a hardware based spam blocker. (I like/hate it.) > It > > does a great job with spams, but has been having a lot of false positives. > > (Things like ... in an email get the whole thing blocked.) > > > > Drew > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Rocky Smolin - > > Beach Access Software > > Sent: Wednesday, March 31, 2004 3:10 PM > > To: AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > Subject: [AccessD] Fw: Returned mail: see transcript for details > > > > > > Drew: > > > > Here's the rejection I'm getting from your email address. On closer > > inspection, it appears to be me they're rejecting. I'm hurt. :( > > > > Rocky > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: "Rocky Smolin - Beach Access Software" > > To: > > Sent: Wednesday, March 31, 2004 1:08 PM > > Subject: Fw: Returned mail: see transcript for details > > > > > > > Drew: > > > > > > Here's the rejection. > > > > > > Rocky > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > From: "Mail Delivery Subsystem" > > > > > To: > > > Sent: Wednesday, March 31, 2004 9:39 AM > > > Subject: Returned mail: see transcript for details > > > > > > > > > > The original message was received at Wed, 31 Mar 2004 09:38:56 -0800 > > (PST) > > > > from 24-25-217-158.san.rr.com [24.25.217.158] > > > > > > > > ----- The following addresses had permanent fatal errors ----- > > > > > > > > (reason: 554 : Sender address rejected: Access > > > denied) > > > > > > > > ----- Transcript of session follows ----- > > > > ... while talking to main2.marlow.com.: > > > > >>> DATA > > > > <<< 554 : Sender address rejected: Access denied > > > > 554 5.0.0 Service unavailable > > > > <<< 554 Error: no valid recipients > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -------------------------------------------------------------------------- > > -- > > > ---- > > > > > > > > > > Received: from HAL9002 (24-25-217-158.san.rr.com [24.25.217.158]) > > > > by ms-smtp-03-eri0.socal.rr.com (8.12.10/8.12.7) with SMTP id > > > i2VHcuUL013549 > > > > for ; Wed, 31 Mar 2004 09:38:56 -0800 (PST) > > > > Message-ID: <07f401c41747$10170f00$6601a8c0 at HAL9002> > > > > From: "Rocky Smolin - Beach Access Software" > > > > To: > > > > Subject: Fw: Returned mail: see transcript for details > > > > Date: Wed, 31 Mar 2004 09:39:04 -0800 > > > > MIME-Version: 1.0 > > > > Content-Type: multipart/mixed; > > > > boundary="----=_NextPart_000_07F1_01C41704.01B5B490" > > > > X-Priority: 3 > > > > X-MSMail-Priority: Normal > > > > X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158 > > > > X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 > > > > X-Virus-Scanned: Symantec AntiVirus Scan Engine > > > > > > > > > > > -- > > _______________________________________________ > > AccessD mailing list > > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > -- > > _______________________________________________ > > AccessD mailing list > > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From nd500_lo at charter.net Wed Mar 31 16:17:13 2004 From: nd500_lo at charter.net (Dian) Date: Wed, 31 Mar 2004 14:17:13 -0800 Subject: [AccessD] OT: A survey from somebody not as well-connected as JC In-Reply-To: <20040331135520.JBJU1797.imf22aec.mail.bellsouth.net@SUSANONE> Message-ID: <200403312217.i2VMHCvD098668@mxsf13.cluster1.charter.net> Well, I've been 'lurking' for a while because I'm technically retired now and haven't been an 'official' developer for several years. The reason I'm responding now is that Susan made a good point. I made an excellent living doing something close to what she has suggested here...focusing on what small business owners seemed to need the most. It all started when I did a favor for a little bookstore and the owner was so delighted, she recommended me to others. All I did was go into a business, analyze their business functions, eliminate redundant operations, tie the system together (and, yes, for some weird reason, there was usually an Access database at the heart of it all) and then train the employees on how they could do their specific function faster, easier and more efficiently. When several customers needed new systems, I learned how to build computers. When their networking needs became more sophisticated, I learned what I needed to know about networking. When everyone wanted an online presence, I learned how to create websites for them and taught them how to maintain them. In the process, I built little modules that could be snapped together to cover just about anything (on a limited size basis) and I had a wonderful time. It is possible to do it...just a matter of discovering what I was good at and what I loved doing. It can be done. By the way...hi, everybody! -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Susan Harkins Sent: Wednesday, March 31, 2004 5:55 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: [AccessD] OT: A survey from somebody not as well-connected as JC I have long thought that the way to make money with Access/SQL Server or really any program that you can manipulate vai code is to make small modules that make the user's life easier, not a finished package per se. Now Rocky may have the once in a lifetime great idea that has a large audience, but most of us aren't going to experience that. What we can do, is produce drop-in modules that make the average user's life easier. Wizards are OK, but most of them really won't take the user very far toward getting the word done. You sell a module that does something you think is really rather mundane, but that the average user doesn't hve the experience to automate. The cost is so small anyone can purchase it, and you make money in volume. Will you get rich? Probably not, but I still think there's potential there. Something as simple as a generic module that lets the user determine how many labels to print for each record, and specify a position to start on the first label sheet so they can use a half-used sheet of labels. Both are something I've written about -- could easily be automated to fit be dropped into any module and users would buy it if you only charge $5 or $10. There are tons of ideas for such a market -- but can't tell you where or how to market them. Here's a few more -- a combo or list that automatically displays all the visible reports or forms in the application (omitting hidden and system objects I mean). These are things users could really use and would probably pay a few bucks for. Everyone's busy with custom development, and there's money to be made I'm sure, but there are ton more "users" than developers, but all the products are for developers. Susan H. Sure. I estimate it will take to the end of the year before I see any real results. I've got another product cooking as well - analyzes sleep disorders. Been working on it with an expert in the field for 4-5 years (not continuously, of course). Might be able to launch it this year. Do you want to be a beta tester? Rocky ----- Original Message ----- From: "Kath Pelletti" To: "Access Developers discussion and problem solving" Sent: Tuesday, March 30, 2004 8:23 PM Subject: Re: [AccessD] OT: A survey from somebody not as well-connected as JC Well I wish you the very best of luck...can you let us know how the sales go? Kath ----- Original Message ----- From: Rocky Smolin - Beach Access Software To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Sent: Wednesday, March 31, 2004 9:42 AM Subject: Re: [AccessD] OT: A survey from somebody not as well-connected as JC Kath: In the 'old' days when I was flogging this package in DOS, I thought that some of them would be sold by word of mouth, people seeing it, or the reports that got passed around (which all had my company name in the footer). So I always wanted everyone to have the latest version. So I didn't charge for it. It was in my self-interest to have them use the most recent release. And I'm still going to keep to that policy for this new version. If I add a module, like Order Entry, everybody will get it at no cost. With distribution by web, there really is no overhead cost to me to distribute it. And good product sells more product. I promote the product support as a 'free phone in consulting service on any question related to the software OR manufacturing systems' for the first year, and $300 a year after that (about 10% of the purchase price). In the past I had a lot of conversations with people about manufacturing issues - how to structure a bill of materials, how to make up a part numbering scheme, how to solve a particular work order problem, etc - and very few questions about how to actually run the software. This added a LOT of value to the product and didn't really take very much time. The key is to make a product which is so user stupid that anybody who can read and count to 20 can run it. Then you don't get the same question 20 times a day, like 'how do I run a costed inventory report?'. If a user doesn't want to pay the yearly maintenance then they don't get the phone support. I could tell them they don't get the new releases as well but that works against me salewise. Many people didn't pay for the support after the first couple of years because they never called me for anything. The other key, of course, it goes without saying, is to make the product so solid that it doesn't generate bugs and errors. Then you don't get any support calls. BTW - I'm not a marketer or salesy type person, either. But if you have something you believe in it's not really selling. And I really believe in this product (why not, I invented it?). I just present the product and if they like it fine. They buy it. If not, it's like pushing on a string. I always wanted people to feel like they got more than they expected and when you sell hard you overhype, raise expectations, and end up with customers who expect more than you have to give. When people buy E-Z-MRP they feel like they just bought a dollar for fifty cents. That makes selling a lot easier, too. I suppose that's why I'm successful but not rich. :) HTH Rocky Smolin Beach Access Software http://www.e-z-mrp.com ----- Original Message ----- From: "Kath Pelletti" To: "Access Developers discussion and problem solving" Sent: Tuesday, March 30, 2004 2:59 PM Subject: Re: [AccessD] OT: A survey from somebody not as well-connected as JC Rocky - out of interest - what support arrangements / fees are you offering? Kath ----- Original Message ----- From: Rocky Smolin - Beach Access Software To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Sent: Wednesday, March 31, 2004 8:48 AM Subject: Re: [AccessD] OT: A survey from somebody not as well-connected as JC Andy: Don't envy me. They jury's still out. I've got a bit of a buffer so we won't miss any meals, but that can't go on forever. I've had two good products and several bad ones. At least this time I'm starting in an economy that's on the upswing. But I've always been a bootstrap kind of guy - we're doing a mailing in San Diego county this month. Hopefully snag two or three systems. Then use that money to mail again in another county. Build it up slowly. Instead of mortgaging the house. I'm still doing some fee-for-service as well. So that keeps some of the lights on. It's a high wire act for sure. But when it does work, it's a thing of beauty. Rocky > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Andy Lacey > Sent: Tuesday, March 30, 2004 1:18 PM > To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' > Subject: RE: [AccessD] OT: A survey from somebody not as well-connected > as JC > > > I envy Rocky (sort of) but won't be trying to emulate him. Been there, tried > that, and failed. Problem with the product thing is that you have to > metamorphose from developer into marketer, and I couldn't. Not my thing at > all. Plus IME it involves sinking money into advertising, mailing, > brochures, websites nd so on. You have to be prepared to risk big outlay > against no guarantee of return. Done that 2 or 3 times to great cost and no > great return. Won't be doing it again. > > -- Andy Lacey > http://www.minstersystems.co.uk > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of > > Steven W. Erbach > > Sent: 30 March 2004 04:16 > > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > > Subject: Re: [AccessD] OT: A survey from somebody not as > > well-connected as JC > > > > > > William, > > > > >> ...don't take this the wrong way << > > > > I won't. I appreciate your point of view. I have gotten > > caught up in the tools as if owning the right brand of socket > > wrench will guarantee me a living. > > > > But I hear you on the client-centered approach. I've worked > > on lots of things that were outside of my skill-set comfort zone. > > > > I talked with a friend recently about my business and he > > asked if there was anything I specialized in. I told him no; > > my business is producing custom solutions to solve customer > > problems. He recommended a product-centered approach, like > > what Rocky is aiming for. I have a long-term care facility > > marketing and donations program I wrote that might fill the > > bill. We'll see. > > > > >> ...but I'm just me and don't have any intention of ever > > working hard > > >> again << > > > > Not really an option for me as we're having some tough times > > financially. I can dig the varietal nature of your work, > > though. Thanks. > > > > Regards, > > > > Steve Erbach > > Scientific Marketing > > Neenah, WI > > > > "You must be an intellectual. No normal person would say a > > thing like that." - George Orwell > > > > -- > > _______________________________________________ > > AccessD mailing list > > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/a> ccessd > > Website: > > http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > > > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From stuart at lexacorp.com.pg Wed Mar 31 17:04:32 2004 From: stuart at lexacorp.com.pg (Stuart McLachlan) Date: Thu, 01 Apr 2004 09:04:32 +1000 Subject: [AccessD] Fw: Returned mail: see transcript for details In-Reply-To: <2F8793082E00D4119A1700B0D0216BF802227A4C@main2.marlow.com> Message-ID: <406BDB20.24796.4FB5C3@localhost> On 31 Mar 2004 at 16:22, DWUTKA at marlow.com wrote: > Yep, Mark is handling our Spam now (my co-worker). He said that the rr.com > domain sends us a LOT of spam, so it's blacklisted. Someone needs to kick you cow-orker up the backside. A mail admin's primary job should be to ensure that users get their legitimate mail. His secondary job should be to protect them from spam/viruses as much as possible. Blocking a domain the size of rr.com shows that he has his priorities "arse about face". How much business (current and potential) is he costing you? Did you get my request for a quotation on a major system I need developed? I sent it through my US associate who uses rr.com. -- Lexacorp Ltd http://www.lexacorp.com.pg Information Technology Consultancy, Software Development,System Support. From MPorter at acsalaska.com Wed Mar 31 17:12:00 2004 From: MPorter at acsalaska.com (Porter, Mark) Date: Wed, 31 Mar 2004 14:12:00 -0900 Subject: [AccessD] OT: A survey from somebody not as well-connected as JC Message-ID: I agree with this theme. When businesses know and trust you, they are willing to hire you for things that are outside of your core skills. > -----Original Message----- > From: Dian [mailto:nd500_lo at charter.net] > Sent: Wednesday, March 31, 2004 1:17 PM > To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' > Subject: RE: [AccessD] OT: A survey from somebody not as > well-connected > as JC > > > Well, I've been 'lurking' for a while because I'm technically > retired now > and haven't been an 'official' developer for several years. > The reason I'm > responding now is that Susan made a good point. I made an > excellent living > doing something close to what she has suggested > here...focusing on what > small business owners seemed to need the most. It all started > when I did a > favor for a little bookstore and the owner was so delighted, > she recommended > me to others. All I did was go into a business, analyze their business > functions, eliminate redundant operations, tie the system > together (and, > yes, for some weird reason, there was usually an Access > database at the > heart of it all) and then train the employees on how they > could do their > specific function faster, easier and more efficiently. When several > customers needed new systems, I learned how to build > computers. When their > networking needs became more sophisticated, I learned what I > needed to know > about networking. When everyone wanted an online presence, I > learned how to > create websites for them and taught them how to maintain them. In the > process, I built little modules that could be snapped > together to cover just > about anything (on a limited size basis) and I had a > wonderful time. It is > possible to do it...just a matter of discovering what I was > good at and what > I loved doing. It can be done. By the way...hi, everybody! > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of > Susan Harkins > Sent: Wednesday, March 31, 2004 5:55 AM > To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' > Subject: RE: [AccessD] OT: A survey from somebody not as > well-connected as > JC > > I have long thought that the way to make money with > Access/SQL Server or > really any program that you can manipulate vai code is to > make small modules > that make the user's life easier, not a finished package per > se. Now Rocky > may have the once in a lifetime great idea that has a large > audience, but > most of us aren't going to experience that. What we can do, is produce > drop-in modules that make the average user's life easier. > Wizards are OK, > but most of them really won't take the user very far toward > getting the word > done. > > You sell a module that does something you think is really > rather mundane, > but that the average user doesn't hve the experience to > automate. The cost > is so small anyone can purchase it, and you make money in volume. > > Will you get rich? > > Probably not, but I still think there's potential there. > > Something as simple as a generic module that lets the user > determine how > many labels to print for each record, and specify a position > to start on the > first label sheet so they can use a half-used sheet of > labels. Both are > something I've written about -- could easily be automated to > fit be dropped > into any module and users would buy it if you only charge $5 > or $10. There > are tons of ideas for such a market -- but can't tell you > where or how to > market them. Here's a few more -- a combo or list that automatically > displays all the visible reports or forms in the application (omitting > hidden and system objects I mean). These are things users > could really use > and would probably pay a few bucks for. > > Everyone's busy with custom development, and there's money to > be made I'm > sure, but there are ton more "users" than developers, but all > the products > are for developers. > > Susan H. > > > Sure. I estimate it will take to the end of the year before > I see any real > results. > > I've got another product cooking as well - analyzes sleep > disorders. Been > working on it with an expert in the field for 4-5 years (not > continuously, > of course). Might be able to launch it this year. > > Do you want to be a beta tester? > > Rocky > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Kath Pelletti" > To: "Access Developers discussion and problem solving" > > Sent: Tuesday, March 30, 2004 8:23 PM > Subject: Re: [AccessD] OT: A survey from somebody not as > well-connected as > JC > > > Well I wish you the very best of luck...can you let us know > how the sales > go? > > Kath > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Rocky Smolin - Beach Access Software > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Sent: Wednesday, March 31, 2004 9:42 AM > Subject: Re: [AccessD] OT: A survey from somebody not as > well-connected as > JC > > > Kath: > > In the 'old' days when I was flogging this package in DOS, > I thought that > some of them would be sold by word of mouth, people seeing > it, or the > reports that got passed around (which all had my company name in the > footer). So I always wanted everyone to have the latest > version. So I > didn't charge for it. It was in my self-interest to have > them use the > most > recent release. And I'm still going to keep to that policy > for this new > version. > > If I add a module, like Order Entry, everybody will get it > at no cost. > With > distribution by web, there really is no overhead cost to me > to distribute > it. And good product sells more product. > > I promote the product support as a 'free phone in > consulting service on > any > question related to the software OR manufacturing systems' > for the first > year, and $300 a year after that (about 10% of the purchase price). > > In the past I had a lot of conversations with people about > manufacturing > issues - how to structure a bill of materials, how to make up a part > numbering scheme, how to solve a particular work order > problem, etc - and > very few questions about how to actually run the software. > This added a > LOT > of value to the product and didn't really take very much time. > > The key is to make a product which is so user stupid that > anybody who can > read and count to 20 can run it. Then you don't get the > same question 20 > times a day, like 'how do I run a costed inventory report?'. > > If a user doesn't want to pay the yearly maintenance then > they don't get > the > phone support. I could tell them they don't get the new > releases as well > but that works against me salewise. Many people didn't pay for the > support > after the first couple of years because they never called > me for anything. > > The other key, of course, it goes without saying, is to > make the product > so > solid that it doesn't generate bugs and errors. Then you > don't get any > support calls. > > BTW - I'm not a marketer or salesy type person, either. > But if you have > something you believe in it's not really selling. And I > really believe in > this product (why not, I invented it?). I just present the > product and if > they like it fine. They buy it. If not, it's like pushing > on a string. > > I always wanted people to feel like they got more than they > expected and > when you sell hard you overhype, raise expectations, and end up with > customers who expect more than you have to give. > > When people buy E-Z-MRP they feel like they just bought a > dollar for fifty > cents. That makes selling a lot easier, too. > > I suppose that's why I'm successful but not rich. :) > > HTH > > Rocky Smolin > Beach Access Software > http://www.e-z-mrp.com > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Kath Pelletti" > To: "Access Developers discussion and problem solving" > > Sent: Tuesday, March 30, 2004 2:59 PM > Subject: Re: [AccessD] OT: A survey from somebody not as > well-connected as > JC > > > Rocky - out of interest - what support arrangements / fees are you > offering? > > Kath > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Rocky Smolin - Beach Access Software > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Sent: Wednesday, March 31, 2004 8:48 AM > Subject: Re: [AccessD] OT: A survey from somebody not as > well-connected > as > JC > > > Andy: > > Don't envy me. They jury's still out. I've got a bit of > a buffer so we > won't miss any meals, but that can't go on forever. I've > had two good > products and several bad ones. At least this time I'm > starting in an > economy that's on the upswing. > > But I've always been a bootstrap kind of guy - we're > doing a mailing in > San > Diego county this month. Hopefully snag two or three > systems. Then use > that money to mail again in another county. Build it up slowly. > Instead > of > mortgaging the house. > > I'm still doing some fee-for-service as well. So that > keeps some of the > lights on. > > It's a high wire act for sure. But when it does work, > it's a thing of > beauty. > > Rocky > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf > Of Andy Lacey > > Sent: Tuesday, March 30, 2004 1:18 PM > > To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' > > Subject: RE: [AccessD] OT: A survey from somebody not as > well-connected > > as JC > > > > > > I envy Rocky (sort of) but won't be trying to emulate > him. Been there, > tried > > that, and failed. Problem with the product thing is > that you have to > > metamorphose from developer into marketer, and I > couldn't. Not my > thing > at > > all. Plus IME it involves sinking money into > advertising, mailing, > > brochures, websites nd so on. You have to be prepared > to risk big > outlay > > against no guarantee of return. Done that 2 or 3 times > to great cost > and > no > > great return. Won't be doing it again. > > > > -- Andy Lacey > > http://www.minstersystems.co.uk > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > > > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of > > > Steven W. Erbach > > > Sent: 30 March 2004 04:16 > > > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > > > Subject: Re: [AccessD] OT: A survey from somebody not as > > > well-connected as JC > > > > > > > > > William, > > > > > > >> ...don't take this the wrong way << > > > > > > I won't. I appreciate your point of view. I have gotten > > > caught up in the tools as if owning the right brand of socket > > > wrench will guarantee me a living. > > > > > > But I hear you on the client-centered approach. I've worked > > > on lots of things that were outside of my skill-set > comfort zone. > > > > > > I talked with a friend recently about my business and he > > > asked if there was anything I specialized in. I told him no; > > > my business is producing custom solutions to solve customer > > > problems. He recommended a product-centered approach, like > > > what Rocky is aiming for. I have a long-term care facility > > > marketing and donations program I wrote that might fill the > > > bill. We'll see. > > > > > > >> ...but I'm just me and don't have any intention of ever > > > working hard > > > >> again << > > > > > > Not really an option for me as we're having some tough times > > > financially. I can dig the varietal nature of your work, > > > though. Thanks. > > > > > > Regards, > > > > > > Steve Erbach > > > Scientific Marketing > > > Neenah, WI > > > > > > "You must be an intellectual. No normal person would say a > > > thing like that." - George Orwell > > > > > > -- > > > _______________________________________________ > > > AccessD mailing list > > > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/a> ccessd > > > Website: > > > http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > > > > > > > -- > > _______________________________________________ > > AccessD mailing list > > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > > > -- > > _______________________________________________ > > AccessD mailing list > > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > From DWUTKA at marlow.com Wed Mar 31 17:22:35 2004 From: DWUTKA at marlow.com (DWUTKA at marlow.com) Date: Wed, 31 Mar 2004 17:22:35 -0600 Subject: [AccessD] Fw: Returned mail: see transcript for details Message-ID: <2F8793082E00D4119A1700B0D0216BF802227A4F@main2.marlow.com> Slow down. Mark is EXTREMELY competent, and I AM the Exchange Administrator. We just recently purchased something called the 'Interceptor', which is a stand-alone bisen (sp?) spam filter. It's pretty good. But it's only been online a few weeks, so we are just working out the kinks. Our boss on the other hand has done several things which is making Marks life more difficult. The reason Mark has control of the interceptor, is because he's the network admin, and thus handles all of our switches, hubs, etc. Since the Interceptor sits (figuratively) between our router, and Exchange server, he took it on, since he had to work out all of the network issues with it. He doesn't really do much with it, spends maybe 10 to 15 minutes a week, it's pretty self sufficient. Tonight I'll get a 'spam report' from the Interceptor, which will have all of the emails it blocked (with links to retrieve them). I did see that big development contract you sent, and you still owe me my 'investigation' fee for that contract. LOL Drew -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Stuart McLachlan Sent: Wednesday, March 31, 2004 5:05 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] Fw: Returned mail: see transcript for details On 31 Mar 2004 at 16:22, DWUTKA at marlow.com wrote: > Yep, Mark is handling our Spam now (my co-worker). He said that the rr.com > domain sends us a LOT of spam, so it's blacklisted. Someone needs to kick you cow-orker up the backside. A mail admin's primary job should be to ensure that users get their legitimate mail. His secondary job should be to protect them from spam/viruses as much as possible. Blocking a domain the size of rr.com shows that he has his priorities "arse about face". How much business (current and potential) is he costing you? Did you get my request for a quotation on a major system I need developed? I sent it through my US associate who uses rr.com. -- Lexacorp Ltd http://www.lexacorp.com.pg Information Technology Consultancy, Software Development,System Support. -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From garykjos at hotmail.com Wed Mar 31 17:24:29 2004 From: garykjos at hotmail.com (Gary Kjos) Date: Wed, 31 Mar 2004 17:24:29 -0600 Subject: [AccessD] OT: A survey from somebody not as well-connected as JC Message-ID: >>>Well, I've been 'lurking' for a while because I'm technically retired >>>now...... By the way...hi, everybody!<<<<<< Hello and welcome out from your lurking position ;-) Gary Kjos garykjos at hotmail.com _________________________________________________________________ Get reliable access on MSN 9 Dial-up. 3 months for the price of 1! (Limited-time offer) http://join.msn.com/?page=dept/dialup&pgmarket=en-us&ST=1/go/onm00200361ave/direct/01/ From nd500_lo at charter.net Wed Mar 31 17:20:22 2004 From: nd500_lo at charter.net (Dian) Date: Wed, 31 Mar 2004 15:20:22 -0800 Subject: [AccessD] OT: A survey from somebody not as well-connected as JC In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <200403312320.i2VNKLOt056387@mxsf10.cluster1.charter.net> Ummmmm...in all honesty, Mark...they didn't exactly KNOW it was outside my area of expertise at the time...but, I spent a LOT of time on my own learning stuff in a biiiiiig hurry... -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Porter, Mark Sent: Wednesday, March 31, 2004 3:12 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] OT: A survey from somebody not as well-connected as JC I agree with this theme. When businesses know and trust you, they are willing to hire you for things that are outside of your core skills. > -----Original Message----- > From: Dian [mailto:nd500_lo at charter.net] > Sent: Wednesday, March 31, 2004 1:17 PM > To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' > Subject: RE: [AccessD] OT: A survey from somebody not as > well-connected > as JC > > > Well, I've been 'lurking' for a while because I'm technically > retired now > and haven't been an 'official' developer for several years. > The reason I'm > responding now is that Susan made a good point. I made an > excellent living > doing something close to what she has suggested > here...focusing on what > small business owners seemed to need the most. It all started > when I did a > favor for a little bookstore and the owner was so delighted, > she recommended > me to others. All I did was go into a business, analyze their business > functions, eliminate redundant operations, tie the system > together (and, > yes, for some weird reason, there was usually an Access > database at the > heart of it all) and then train the employees on how they > could do their > specific function faster, easier and more efficiently. When several > customers needed new systems, I learned how to build > computers. When their > networking needs became more sophisticated, I learned what I > needed to know > about networking. When everyone wanted an online presence, I > learned how to > create websites for them and taught them how to maintain them. In the > process, I built little modules that could be snapped > together to cover just > about anything (on a limited size basis) and I had a > wonderful time. It is > possible to do it...just a matter of discovering what I was > good at and what > I loved doing. It can be done. By the way...hi, everybody! > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of > Susan Harkins > Sent: Wednesday, March 31, 2004 5:55 AM > To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' > Subject: RE: [AccessD] OT: A survey from somebody not as > well-connected as > JC > > I have long thought that the way to make money with > Access/SQL Server or > really any program that you can manipulate vai code is to > make small modules > that make the user's life easier, not a finished package per > se. Now Rocky > may have the once in a lifetime great idea that has a large > audience, but > most of us aren't going to experience that. What we can do, is produce > drop-in modules that make the average user's life easier. > Wizards are OK, > but most of them really won't take the user very far toward > getting the word > done. > > You sell a module that does something you think is really > rather mundane, > but that the average user doesn't hve the experience to > automate. The cost > is so small anyone can purchase it, and you make money in volume. > > Will you get rich? > > Probably not, but I still think there's potential there. > > Something as simple as a generic module that lets the user > determine how > many labels to print for each record, and specify a position > to start on the > first label sheet so they can use a half-used sheet of > labels. Both are > something I've written about -- could easily be automated to > fit be dropped > into any module and users would buy it if you only charge $5 > or $10. There > are tons of ideas for such a market -- but can't tell you > where or how to > market them. Here's a few more -- a combo or list that automatically > displays all the visible reports or forms in the application (omitting > hidden and system objects I mean). These are things users > could really use > and would probably pay a few bucks for. > > Everyone's busy with custom development, and there's money to > be made I'm > sure, but there are ton more "users" than developers, but all > the products > are for developers. > > Susan H. > > > Sure. I estimate it will take to the end of the year before > I see any real > results. > > I've got another product cooking as well - analyzes sleep > disorders. Been > working on it with an expert in the field for 4-5 years (not > continuously, > of course). Might be able to launch it this year. > > Do you want to be a beta tester? > > Rocky > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Kath Pelletti" > To: "Access Developers discussion and problem solving" > > Sent: Tuesday, March 30, 2004 8:23 PM > Subject: Re: [AccessD] OT: A survey from somebody not as > well-connected as > JC > > > Well I wish you the very best of luck...can you let us know > how the sales > go? > > Kath > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Rocky Smolin - Beach Access Software > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Sent: Wednesday, March 31, 2004 9:42 AM > Subject: Re: [AccessD] OT: A survey from somebody not as > well-connected as > JC > > > Kath: > > In the 'old' days when I was flogging this package in DOS, > I thought that > some of them would be sold by word of mouth, people seeing > it, or the > reports that got passed around (which all had my company name in the > footer). So I always wanted everyone to have the latest > version. So I > didn't charge for it. It was in my self-interest to have > them use the > most > recent release. And I'm still going to keep to that policy > for this new > version. > > If I add a module, like Order Entry, everybody will get it > at no cost. > With > distribution by web, there really is no overhead cost to me > to distribute > it. And good product sells more product. > > I promote the product support as a 'free phone in > consulting service on > any > question related to the software OR manufacturing systems' > for the first > year, and $300 a year after that (about 10% of the purchase price). > > In the past I had a lot of conversations with people about > manufacturing > issues - how to structure a bill of materials, how to make up a part > numbering scheme, how to solve a particular work order > problem, etc - and > very few questions about how to actually run the software. > This added a > LOT > of value to the product and didn't really take very much time. > > The key is to make a product which is so user stupid that > anybody who can > read and count to 20 can run it. Then you don't get the > same question 20 > times a day, like 'how do I run a costed inventory report?'. > > If a user doesn't want to pay the yearly maintenance then > they don't get > the > phone support. I could tell them they don't get the new > releases as well > but that works against me salewise. Many people didn't pay for the > support > after the first couple of years because they never called > me for anything. > > The other key, of course, it goes without saying, is to > make the product > so > solid that it doesn't generate bugs and errors. Then you > don't get any > support calls. > > BTW - I'm not a marketer or salesy type person, either. > But if you have > something you believe in it's not really selling. And I > really believe in > this product (why not, I invented it?). I just present the > product and if > they like it fine. They buy it. If not, it's like pushing > on a string. > > I always wanted people to feel like they got more than they > expected and > when you sell hard you overhype, raise expectations, and end up with > customers who expect more than you have to give. > > When people buy E-Z-MRP they feel like they just bought a > dollar for fifty > cents. That makes selling a lot easier, too. > > I suppose that's why I'm successful but not rich. :) > > HTH > > Rocky Smolin > Beach Access Software > http://www.e-z-mrp.com > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Kath Pelletti" > To: "Access Developers discussion and problem solving" > > Sent: Tuesday, March 30, 2004 2:59 PM > Subject: Re: [AccessD] OT: A survey from somebody not as > well-connected as > JC > > > Rocky - out of interest - what support arrangements / fees are you > offering? > > Kath > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Rocky Smolin - Beach Access Software > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Sent: Wednesday, March 31, 2004 8:48 AM > Subject: Re: [AccessD] OT: A survey from somebody not as > well-connected > as > JC > > > Andy: > > Don't envy me. They jury's still out. I've got a bit of > a buffer so we > won't miss any meals, but that can't go on forever. I've > had two good > products and several bad ones. At least this time I'm > starting in an > economy that's on the upswing. > > But I've always been a bootstrap kind of guy - we're > doing a mailing in > San > Diego county this month. Hopefully snag two or three > systems. Then use > that money to mail again in another county. Build it up slowly. > Instead > of > mortgaging the house. > > I'm still doing some fee-for-service as well. So that > keeps some of the > lights on. > > It's a high wire act for sure. But when it does work, > it's a thing of > beauty. > > Rocky > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf > Of Andy Lacey > > Sent: Tuesday, March 30, 2004 1:18 PM > > To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' > > Subject: RE: [AccessD] OT: A survey from somebody not as > well-connected > > as JC > > > > > > I envy Rocky (sort of) but won't be trying to emulate > him. Been there, > tried > > that, and failed. Problem with the product thing is > that you have to > > metamorphose from developer into marketer, and I > couldn't. Not my > thing > at > > all. Plus IME it involves sinking money into > advertising, mailing, > > brochures, websites nd so on. You have to be prepared > to risk big > outlay > > against no guarantee of return. Done that 2 or 3 times > to great cost > and > no > > great return. Won't be doing it again. > > > > -- Andy Lacey > > http://www.minstersystems.co.uk > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > > > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of > > > Steven W. Erbach > > > Sent: 30 March 2004 04:16 > > > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > > > Subject: Re: [AccessD] OT: A survey from somebody not as > > > well-connected as JC > > > > > > > > > William, > > > > > > >> ...don't take this the wrong way << > > > > > > I won't. I appreciate your point of view. I have gotten > > > caught up in the tools as if owning the right brand of socket > > > wrench will guarantee me a living. > > > > > > But I hear you on the client-centered approach. I've worked > > > on lots of things that were outside of my skill-set > comfort zone. > > > > > > I talked with a friend recently about my business and he > > > asked if there was anything I specialized in. I told him no; > > > my business is producing custom solutions to solve customer > > > problems. He recommended a product-centered approach, like > > > what Rocky is aiming for. I have a long-term care facility > > > marketing and donations program I wrote that might fill the > > > bill. We'll see. > > > > > > >> ...but I'm just me and don't have any intention of ever > > > working hard > > > >> again << > > > > > > Not really an option for me as we're having some tough times > > > financially. I can dig the varietal nature of your work, > > > though. Thanks. > > > > > > Regards, > > > > > > Steve Erbach > > > Scientific Marketing > > > Neenah, WI > > > > > > "You must be an intellectual. No normal person would say a > > > thing like that." - George Orwell > > > > > > -- > > > _______________________________________________ > > > AccessD mailing list > > > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/a> ccessd > > > Website: > > > http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > > > > > > > -- > > _______________________________________________ > > AccessD mailing list > > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > > > -- > > _______________________________________________ > > AccessD mailing list > > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From BBarabash at TappeConstruction.com Wed Mar 31 17:30:42 2004 From: BBarabash at TappeConstruction.com (Brett Barabash) Date: Wed, 31 Mar 2004 17:30:42 -0600 Subject: [AccessD] Fw: Returned mail: see transcript for details Message-ID: <426071E0B0A6D311B3C0006008B0AB23AFE4B0@TAPPEEXCH01> Hey, don't get me started on spam filtering. It took 6 months for me to convince the notwork admin to configure our spam blocker to whitelist databaseadvisors.com! Nigerian money laundering schemes, otoh, are perfectly acceptable. (BTW, dig my cool legalese email tag. With recent changes to our HIPAA policies, it's getting bigger still...) -----Original Message----- From: Stuart McLachlan [mailto:stuart at lexacorp.com.pg] Sent: Wednesday, March 31, 2004 5:05 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] Fw: Returned mail: see transcript for details On 31 Mar 2004 at 16:22, DWUTKA at marlow.com wrote: > Yep, Mark is handling our Spam now (my co-worker). He said that the rr.com > domain sends us a LOT of spam, so it's blacklisted. Someone needs to kick you cow-orker up the backside. A mail admin's primary job should be to ensure that users get their legitimate mail. His secondary job should be to protect them from spam/viruses as much as possible. Blocking a domain the size of rr.com shows that he has his priorities "arse about face". How much business (current and potential) is he costing you? Did you get my request for a quotation on a major system I need developed? I sent it through my US associate who uses rr.com. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- The information in this email may contain confidential information that is legally privileged. The information is only for the use of the intended recipient(s) named above. If you are not the intended recipient(s), you are hereby notified that any disclosure, copying, distribution, or the taking of any action in regard to the content of this fax is strictly prohibited. If transmission is incorrect, unclear, or incomplete, please notify the sender immediately. The authorized recipient(s) of this information is/are prohibited from disclosing this information to any other party and is/are required to destroy the information after its stated need has been fulfilled. Any views expressed in this message are those of the individual sender, except where the sender specifies and with authority, states them to be the views of Tappe Construction Co. This footer also confirms that this email message has been scanned for the presence of computer viruses.Scanning of this message and addition of this footer is performed by SurfControl E-mail Filter software in conjunction with virus detection software. From MPorter at acsalaska.com Wed Mar 31 17:35:24 2004 From: MPorter at acsalaska.com (Porter, Mark) Date: Wed, 31 Mar 2004 14:35:24 -0900 Subject: [AccessD] OT: A survey from somebody not as well-connected as JC Message-ID: Winging it is good too ;) > -----Original Message----- > From: Dian [mailto:nd500_lo at charter.net] > Sent: Wednesday, March 31, 2004 2:20 PM > To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' > Subject: RE: [AccessD] OT: A survey from somebody not as > well-connected > as JC > > > Ummmmm...in all honesty, Mark...they didn't exactly KNOW it > was outside my > area of expertise at the time...but, I spent a LOT of time on my own > learning stuff in a biiiiiig hurry... > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of > Porter, Mark > Sent: Wednesday, March 31, 2004 3:12 PM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: RE: [AccessD] OT: A survey from somebody not as > well-connected as > JC > > I agree with this theme. When businesses know and trust you, they are > willing to hire you for things that are outside of your core skills. > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: Dian [mailto:nd500_lo at charter.net] > > Sent: Wednesday, March 31, 2004 1:17 PM > > To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' > > Subject: RE: [AccessD] OT: A survey from somebody not as > > well-connected > > as JC > > > > > > Well, I've been 'lurking' for a while because I'm technically > > retired now > > and haven't been an 'official' developer for several years. > > The reason I'm > > responding now is that Susan made a good point. I made an > > excellent living > > doing something close to what she has suggested > > here...focusing on what > > small business owners seemed to need the most. It all started > > when I did a > > favor for a little bookstore and the owner was so delighted, > > she recommended > > me to others. All I did was go into a business, analyze > their business > > functions, eliminate redundant operations, tie the system > > together (and, > > yes, for some weird reason, there was usually an Access > > database at the > > heart of it all) and then train the employees on how they > > could do their > > specific function faster, easier and more efficiently. When several > > customers needed new systems, I learned how to build > > computers. When their > > networking needs became more sophisticated, I learned what I > > needed to know > > about networking. When everyone wanted an online presence, I > > learned how to > > create websites for them and taught them how to maintain > them. In the > > process, I built little modules that could be snapped > > together to cover just > > about anything (on a limited size basis) and I had a > > wonderful time. It is > > possible to do it...just a matter of discovering what I was > > good at and what > > I loved doing. It can be done. By the way...hi, everybody! > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of > > Susan Harkins > > Sent: Wednesday, March 31, 2004 5:55 AM > > To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' > > Subject: RE: [AccessD] OT: A survey from somebody not as > > well-connected as > > JC > > > > I have long thought that the way to make money with > > Access/SQL Server or > > really any program that you can manipulate vai code is to > > make small modules > > that make the user's life easier, not a finished package per > > se. Now Rocky > > may have the once in a lifetime great idea that has a large > > audience, but > > most of us aren't going to experience that. What we can do, > is produce > > drop-in modules that make the average user's life easier. > > Wizards are OK, > > but most of them really won't take the user very far toward > > getting the word > > done. > > > > You sell a module that does something you think is really > > rather mundane, > > but that the average user doesn't hve the experience to > > automate. The cost > > is so small anyone can purchase it, and you make money in volume. > > > > Will you get rich? > > > > Probably not, but I still think there's potential there. > > > > Something as simple as a generic module that lets the user > > determine how > > many labels to print for each record, and specify a position > > to start on the > > first label sheet so they can use a half-used sheet of > > labels. Both are > > something I've written about -- could easily be automated to > > fit be dropped > > into any module and users would buy it if you only charge $5 > > or $10. There > > are tons of ideas for such a market -- but can't tell you > > where or how to > > market them. Here's a few more -- a combo or list that automatically > > displays all the visible reports or forms in the > application (omitting > > hidden and system objects I mean). These are things users > > could really use > > and would probably pay a few bucks for. > > > > Everyone's busy with custom development, and there's money to > > be made I'm > > sure, but there are ton more "users" than developers, but all > > the products > > are for developers. > > > > Susan H. > > > > > > Sure. I estimate it will take to the end of the year before > > I see any real > > results. > > > > I've got another product cooking as well - analyzes sleep > > disorders. Been > > working on it with an expert in the field for 4-5 years (not > > continuously, > > of course). Might be able to launch it this year. > > > > Do you want to be a beta tester? > > > > Rocky > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: "Kath Pelletti" > > To: "Access Developers discussion and problem solving" > > > > Sent: Tuesday, March 30, 2004 8:23 PM > > Subject: Re: [AccessD] OT: A survey from somebody not as > > well-connected as > > JC > > > > > > Well I wish you the very best of luck...can you let us know > > how the sales > > go? > > > > Kath > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: Rocky Smolin - Beach Access Software > > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > > Sent: Wednesday, March 31, 2004 9:42 AM > > Subject: Re: [AccessD] OT: A survey from somebody not as > > well-connected as > > JC > > > > > > Kath: > > > > In the 'old' days when I was flogging this package in DOS, > > I thought that > > some of them would be sold by word of mouth, people seeing > > it, or the > > reports that got passed around (which all had my company > name in the > > footer). So I always wanted everyone to have the latest > > version. So I > > didn't charge for it. It was in my self-interest to have > > them use the > > most > > recent release. And I'm still going to keep to that policy > > for this new > > version. > > > > If I add a module, like Order Entry, everybody will get it > > at no cost. > > With > > distribution by web, there really is no overhead cost to me > > to distribute > > it. And good product sells more product. > > > > I promote the product support as a 'free phone in > > consulting service on > > any > > question related to the software OR manufacturing systems' > > for the first > > year, and $300 a year after that (about 10% of the > purchase price). > > > > In the past I had a lot of conversations with people about > > manufacturing > > issues - how to structure a bill of materials, how to > make up a part > > numbering scheme, how to solve a particular work order > > problem, etc - and > > very few questions about how to actually run the software. > > This added a > > LOT > > of value to the product and didn't really take very much time. > > > > The key is to make a product which is so user stupid that > > anybody who can > > read and count to 20 can run it. Then you don't get the > > same question 20 > > times a day, like 'how do I run a costed inventory report?'. > > > > If a user doesn't want to pay the yearly maintenance then > > they don't get > > the > > phone support. I could tell them they don't get the new > > releases as well > > but that works against me salewise. Many people didn't > pay for the > > support > > after the first couple of years because they never called > > me for anything. > > > > The other key, of course, it goes without saying, is to > > make the product > > so > > solid that it doesn't generate bugs and errors. Then you > > don't get any > > support calls. > > > > BTW - I'm not a marketer or salesy type person, either. > > But if you have > > something you believe in it's not really selling. And I > > really believe in > > this product (why not, I invented it?). I just present the > > product and if > > they like it fine. They buy it. If not, it's like pushing > > on a string. > > > > I always wanted people to feel like they got more than they > > expected and > > when you sell hard you overhype, raise expectations, and > end up with > > customers who expect more than you have to give. > > > > When people buy E-Z-MRP they feel like they just bought a > > dollar for fifty > > cents. That makes selling a lot easier, too. > > > > I suppose that's why I'm successful but not rich. :) > > > > HTH > > > > Rocky Smolin > > Beach Access Software > > http://www.e-z-mrp.com > > > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: "Kath Pelletti" > > To: "Access Developers discussion and problem solving" > > > > Sent: Tuesday, March 30, 2004 2:59 PM > > Subject: Re: [AccessD] OT: A survey from somebody not as > > well-connected as > > JC > > > > > > Rocky - out of interest - what support arrangements / fees are you > > offering? > > > > Kath > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: Rocky Smolin - Beach Access Software > > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > > Sent: Wednesday, March 31, 2004 8:48 AM > > Subject: Re: [AccessD] OT: A survey from somebody not as > > well-connected > > as > > JC > > > > > > Andy: > > > > Don't envy me. They jury's still out. I've got a bit of > > a buffer so we > > won't miss any meals, but that can't go on forever. I've > > had two good > > products and several bad ones. At least this time I'm > > starting in an > > economy that's on the upswing. > > > > But I've always been a bootstrap kind of guy - we're > > doing a mailing in > > San > > Diego county this month. Hopefully snag two or three > > systems. Then use > > that money to mail again in another county. Build it up slowly. > > Instead > > of > > mortgaging the house. > > > > I'm still doing some fee-for-service as well. So that > > keeps some of the > > lights on. > > > > It's a high wire act for sure. But when it does work, > > it's a thing of > > beauty. > > > > Rocky > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > > > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf > > Of Andy Lacey > > > Sent: Tuesday, March 30, 2004 1:18 PM > > > To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' > > > Subject: RE: [AccessD] OT: A survey from somebody not as > > well-connected > > > as JC > > > > > > > > > I envy Rocky (sort of) but won't be trying to emulate > > him. Been there, > > tried > > > that, and failed. Problem with the product thing is > > that you have to > > > metamorphose from developer into marketer, and I > > couldn't. Not my > > thing > > at > > > all. Plus IME it involves sinking money into > > advertising, mailing, > > > brochures, websites nd so on. You have to be prepared > > to risk big > > outlay > > > against no guarantee of return. Done that 2 or 3 times > > to great cost > > and > > no > > > great return. Won't be doing it again. > > > > > > -- Andy Lacey > > > http://www.minstersystems.co.uk > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > > > > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of > > > > Steven W. Erbach > > > > Sent: 30 March 2004 04:16 > > > > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > > > > Subject: Re: [AccessD] OT: A survey from somebody not as > > > > well-connected as JC > > > > > > > > > > > > William, > > > > > > > > >> ...don't take this the wrong way << > > > > > > > > I won't. I appreciate your point of view. I have gotten > > > > caught up in the tools as if owning the right brand > of socket > > > > wrench will guarantee me a living. > > > > > > > > But I hear you on the client-centered approach. I've worked > > > > on lots of things that were outside of my skill-set > > comfort zone. > > > > > > > > I talked with a friend recently about my business and he > > > > asked if there was anything I specialized in. I told him no; > > > > my business is producing custom solutions to solve customer > > > > problems. He recommended a product-centered approach, like > > > > what Rocky is aiming for. I have a long-term care facility > > > > marketing and donations program I wrote that might fill the > > > > bill. We'll see. > > > > > > > > >> ...but I'm just me and don't have any intention of ever > > > > working hard > > > > >> again << > > > > > > > > Not really an option for me as we're having some tough times > > > > financially. I can dig the varietal nature of your work, > > > > though. Thanks. > > > > > > > > Regards, > > > > > > > > Steve Erbach > > > > Scientific Marketing > > > > Neenah, WI > > > > > > > > "You must be an intellectual. No normal person would say a > > > > thing like that." - George Orwell > > > > > > > > -- > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > > AccessD mailing list > > > > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/a> ccessd > > > > Website: > > > > http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -- > > > _______________________________________________ > > > AccessD mailing list > > > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > > > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > > > > > > -- > > > _______________________________________________ > > > AccessD mailing list > > > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > > > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > > > > -- > > _______________________________________________ > > AccessD mailing list > > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > -- > > _______________________________________________ > > AccessD mailing list > > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > -- > > _______________________________________________ > > AccessD mailing list > > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > -- > > _______________________________________________ > > AccessD mailing list > > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > -- > > _______________________________________________ > > AccessD mailing list > > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > -- > > _______________________________________________ > > AccessD mailing list > > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > -- > > _______________________________________________ > > AccessD mailing list > > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > From jmhla at earthlink.net Wed Mar 31 19:55:23 2004 From: jmhla at earthlink.net (Joe Hecht) Date: Wed, 31 Mar 2004 17:55:23 -0800 Subject: [AccessD] Access XP & FMS for 2000 Message-ID: <004601c4178c$68650e10$6501a8c0@delllaptop> Hi Gang, You may have noticed I have not been asking many questions lately. I have not been writing much. Well here we go. If I use the Access 2000 format of Access XP can use the FMS Developer tools without messing anything up? TIA JOE HECHT LOS ANGELES CA From deanellis at iprimus.com.au Wed Mar 31 15:42:55 2004 From: deanellis at iprimus.com.au (Dean Ellis) Date: Thu, 1 Apr 2004 07:12:55 +0930 (Cen. Australia Standard Time) Subject: [AccessD] Vertical lines in Reports Message-ID: <406B3B5F.000003.43975@jedel> Hi All, I have an interesting dilema with regards to my reports. I want to place a verticl line down each side of my report to simulate the data in some large frames. I can set the line height to match the distance between two horizontal lines. But here's the catch. Between the two horizonatl lines are a number of feilds that are set to "Can Grow". When the text is placed in here, and the feild grows too much, there is a gap between the bottom horizontal line and the vertical lines. Any suggestions? Cheers Dean From d.dick at uws.edu.au Wed Mar 31 22:00:09 2004 From: d.dick at uws.edu.au (Darren DICK) Date: Thu, 1 Apr 2004 14:00:09 +1000 Subject: [AccessD] Vertical lines in Reports References: <406B3B5F.000003.43975@jedel> Message-ID: <00b301c4179d$d3355a90$fed09a89@DDICK> Hey Deano Get the height of the detail and then get your vertical line to be that height in the on Format of the Detail section have something like dim intDetailHeight intDetailHeight = me.detail.height me.linVerticalLine.height = intDetailHeight or something like that Have funn Darren ----- Original Message ----- From: "Dean Ellis" To: "AccessD" Sent: Thursday, April 01, 2004 7:42 AM Subject: [AccessD] Vertical lines in Reports > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > From wdhindman at bellsouth.net Wed Mar 31 22:32:49 2004 From: wdhindman at bellsouth.net (William Hindman) Date: Wed, 31 Mar 2004 23:32:49 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Slow Forms References: Message-ID: <00cc01c417a2$6394bf50$6101a8c0@dejpolsys> ...dl JC's JIT sample from www.colbyconsulting.com ...it'll get you there with bells on :) William Hindman ipsedixitism: something is true because I myself have said it is true ...the philosophy of Noam Chomsky :) ----- Original Message ----- From: "Reuben Cummings" To: "Access Developers discussion and problem solving" Sent: Wednesday, March 31, 2004 2:34 PM Subject: RE: [AccessD] Slow Forms > > > > ...have you tried not loading the tabbed data until its actually selected > > I've considered this option. > > What event is used to "see" a tab being selected? > > Reuben Cummings > GFC, LLC > phone: 812.523.1017 > email: reuben at gfconsultants.com > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of William > > Hindman > > Sent: Tuesday, March 30, 2004 9:27 PM > > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > > Subject: Re: [AccessD] Slow Forms > > > > > > ...have you tried not loading the tabbed data until its actually selected > > ...that should let your main form open quickly based upon the info you > > submitted. > > > > William Hindman > > ipsedixitism: something is true because I myself have said it is > > true ...the > > philosophy of Noam Chomsky :) > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: "Reuben Cummings" > > To: "AccessD" > > Sent: Tuesday, March 30, 2004 4:14 PM > > Subject: [AccessD] Slow Forms > > > > > > > I need help with a form that opens very slowly. > > > > > > Everything worked very quickly until I compacted and repaired the db. > > After > > > compacting, this form will open slowly one time and then open > > quickly all > > > other times. It will continue to open as I would expect it to > > until it is > > > compacted again. > > > > > > However, if the app is made into an mde then it always opens slowly. > > > > > > The form is based on a query. There is a tab control on it. > > One tab has > > > about 14 fields from the same recordsource as the main form. The other > > > three tabs all have subforms based on queries. 2 of those queries have > > > fields that call functions to get their value. > > > > > > All the queries and subforms open very quickly. And if I delete the > > > subforms, the main form will always operate quickly. > > > > > > I have imported into new db's. I have completely rebuilt the main form. > > > > > > Any suggestions on where to start troubleshooting this thing? > > > > > > Thanks. > > > > > > Reuben Cummings > > > GFC, LLC > > > phone: 812.523.1017 > > > email: reuben at gfconsultants.com > > > > > > > > > > > > -- > > > _______________________________________________ > > > AccessD mailing list > > > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > > > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > > > > > > -- > > _______________________________________________ > > AccessD mailing list > > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > > > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > From actebs at actebs.com.au Mon Mar 1 01:55:50 2004 From: actebs at actebs.com.au (ACTEBS) Date: Mon, 1 Mar 2004 18:55:50 +1100 Subject: [AccessD] Meld 3 Text Files - Urgent Message-ID: <000001c3ff62$a01dc7d0$0b08a8c0@carltonone.local> Hi Guys, I have a small project that exports text files (3 of them) in a fixed width format. Now the company requires that these 3 files be melded into 1 text file only as apparently their import procedure knows when to import the one file into separate tables at their end. I have no problem creating the 3 separate text files, but how do you go about melding these 3 separate files into 1? Any ideas most welcome... Regards Vlad From gustav at cactus.dk Mon Mar 1 02:50:41 2004 From: gustav at cactus.dk (Gustav Brock) Date: Mon, 1 Mar 2004 09:50:41 +0100 Subject: [AccessD] Meld 3 Text Files - Urgent In-Reply-To: <000001c3ff62$a01dc7d0$0b08a8c0@carltonone.local> References: <000001c3ff62$a01dc7d0$0b08a8c0@carltonone.local> Message-ID: <883023787.20040301095041@cactus.dk> Hi Vlad The quick-n-dirty road is to use Shell and this DOS command: copy file1.txt+file2.txt+file3.txt file.txt If you prefer VBA code and the files are relatively small, you can just open them one by one, read the lines and append them to the new file one by one. As posted many times here, Seth has on his site the basic code for reading and writing text files. /gustav > I have a small project that exports text files (3 of them) in a fixed > width format. Now the company requires that these 3 files be melded into > 1 text file only as apparently their import procedure knows when to > import the one file into separate tables at their end. > I have no problem creating the 3 separate text files, but how do you go > about melding these 3 separate files into 1? > Any ideas most welcome... > Regards > Vlad From paul.hartland at fsmail.net Mon Mar 1 02:54:25 2004 From: paul.hartland at fsmail.net (paul.hartland at fsmail.net) Date: Mon, 1 Mar 2004 09:54:25 +0100 (CET) Subject: [AccessD] Meld 3 Text Files - Urgent Message-ID: <16160454.1078131265396.JavaMail.www@wwinf3002> Vlad, If you know the names and locations of the files you may be able to shell a copy command to add the three files together..... i.e. COPY C:\File1.txt + C:\File2.txt + C:\File3.txt C:\FinalFile.txt Or could you export the three files, then creat a union query to add the files/tables together, then export the union query ? Paul Message date : Mar 01 2004, 08:02 AM >From : "ACTEBS" To : "access group" Copy to : Subject : [AccessD] Meld 3 Text Files - Urgent Hi Guys, I have a small project that exports text files (3 of them) in a fixed width format. Now the company requires that these 3 files be melded into 1 text file only as apparently their import procedure knows when to import the one file into separate tables at their end. I have no problem creating the 3 separate text files, but how do you go about melding these 3 separate files into 1? Any ideas most welcome... Regards Vlad -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com Freeserve AnyTime - HALF PRICE for the first 3 months - Save ?7.50 a month www.freeserve.com/anytime From ayishakca at yahoo.ca Mon Mar 1 04:34:47 2004 From: ayishakca at yahoo.ca (Ayisha) Date: Mon, 1 Mar 2004 13:34:47 +0300 Subject: [AccessD] Cannot Enforce Referential Integrity References: <40424949.8030600@torchlake.com> Message-ID: <004201c3ff78$d55ff560$27d15dd4@ali> You can not enforce referential integrity if your tables containing records. Referential integrity will work only, if there is no records in any of the tables. VBALI ----- Original Message ----- From: "Tina Norris Fields" To: "Access Developers discussion and problem solving" Sent: Sunday, February 29, 2004 11:19 PM Subject: Re: [AccessD] Cannot Enforce Referential Integrity > Thanks John and Stuart. She indicated that the joined fields were PK in > parent table and FK in child table - but, I will double check. Thanks > for the thoughts. > Tina > > John W. Colby wrote: > > >Actually if the field in the parent is not designated the PK and / or no > >index on the child FK. > > > >John W. Colby > >www.ColbyConsulting.com > > > >-----Original Message----- > >From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > >[mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Stuart > >McLachlan > >Sent: Saturday, February 28, 2004 6:14 PM > >To: Access Developers discussion and problemsolving > >Subject: Re: [AccessD] Cannot Enforce Referential Integrity > > > > > >On 28 Feb 2004 at 15:28, Tina Norris Fields wrote: > > > > > > > >>A student of mine is trying to remodel a database for her employer. I > >>think the database was converted from A97 to AXP (A2K format). She was > >>reviewing the relationships and wanted to enforce referential integrity > >>on one or more relationships. She reports that the checkbox for > >>enforcing referential integrity was dimmed and unavailable. I don't > >>know much more about this particular database. Any ideas as to why the > >>enforce referential integrity choice would be made unavailable? > >>Thanks, > >>Tina > >> > >> > >> > >Usually this happens if there is no unique index on the joined fields > >in the parent table. > > > > > >-- > >Lexacorp Ltd > >http://www.lexacorp.com.pg > >Information Technology Consultancy, Software Development,System > >Support. > > > > > > > >-- > >_______________________________________________ > >AccessD mailing list > >AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > >http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > >Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > > > > > > > > > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From ayishakca at yahoo.ca Mon Mar 1 04:35:01 2004 From: ayishakca at yahoo.ca (Ayisha) Date: Mon, 1 Mar 2004 13:35:01 +0300 Subject: [AccessD] Cannot Enforce Referential Integrity References: <40424949.8030600@torchlake.com> Message-ID: <004701c3ff78$e0d94680$27d15dd4@ali> You can not enforce referential integrity if your tables containing records. Referential integrity will work only, if there is no records in any of the tables. Ayisha ----- Original Message ----- From: "Tina Norris Fields" To: "Access Developers discussion and problem solving" Sent: Sunday, February 29, 2004 11:19 PM Subject: Re: [AccessD] Cannot Enforce Referential Integrity > Thanks John and Stuart. She indicated that the joined fields were PK in > parent table and FK in child table - but, I will double check. Thanks > for the thoughts. > Tina > > John W. Colby wrote: > > >Actually if the field in the parent is not designated the PK and / or no > >index on the child FK. > > > >John W. Colby > >www.ColbyConsulting.com > > > >-----Original Message----- > >From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > >[mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Stuart > >McLachlan > >Sent: Saturday, February 28, 2004 6:14 PM > >To: Access Developers discussion and problemsolving > >Subject: Re: [AccessD] Cannot Enforce Referential Integrity > > > > > >On 28 Feb 2004 at 15:28, Tina Norris Fields wrote: > > > > > > > >>A student of mine is trying to remodel a database for her employer. I > >>think the database was converted from A97 to AXP (A2K format). She was > >>reviewing the relationships and wanted to enforce referential integrity > >>on one or more relationships. She reports that the checkbox for > >>enforcing referential integrity was dimmed and unavailable. I don't > >>know much more about this particular database. Any ideas as to why the > >>enforce referential integrity choice would be made unavailable? > >>Thanks, > >>Tina > >> > >> > >> > >Usually this happens if there is no unique index on the joined fields > >in the parent table. > > > > > >-- > >Lexacorp Ltd > >http://www.lexacorp.com.pg > >Information Technology Consultancy, Software Development,System > >Support. > > > > > > > >-- > >_______________________________________________ > >AccessD mailing list > >AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > >http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > >Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > > > > > > > > > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From ayishakca at yahoo.ca Mon Mar 1 04:35:23 2004 From: ayishakca at yahoo.ca (Ayisha) Date: Mon, 1 Mar 2004 13:35:23 +0300 Subject: [AccessD] Cannot Enforce Referential Integrity References: <40424949.8030600@torchlake.com> Message-ID: <005301c3ff79$44493540$27d15dd4@ali> You can not enforce referential integrity if your tables containing records. Referential integrity will work only, if there is no records in any of the tables. Ayisha ----- Original Message ----- From: "Tina Norris Fields" To: "Access Developers discussion and problem solving" Sent: Sunday, February 29, 2004 11:19 PM Subject: Re: [AccessD] Cannot Enforce Referential Integrity > Thanks John and Stuart. She indicated that the joined fields were PK in > parent table and FK in child table - but, I will double check. Thanks > for the thoughts. > Tina > > John W. Colby wrote: > > >Actually if the field in the parent is not designated the PK and / or no > >index on the child FK. > > > >John W. Colby > >www.ColbyConsulting.com > > > >-----Original Message----- > >From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > >[mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Stuart > >McLachlan > >Sent: Saturday, February 28, 2004 6:14 PM > >To: Access Developers discussion and problemsolving > >Subject: Re: [AccessD] Cannot Enforce Referential Integrity > > > > > >On 28 Feb 2004 at 15:28, Tina Norris Fields wrote: > > > > > > > >>A student of mine is trying to remodel a database for her employer. I > >>think the database was converted from A97 to AXP (A2K format). She was > >>reviewing the relationships and wanted to enforce referential integrity > >>on one or more relationships. She reports that the checkbox for > >>enforcing referential integrity was dimmed and unavailable. I don't > >>know much more about this particular database. Any ideas as to why the > >>enforce referential integrity choice would be made unavailable? > >>Thanks, > >>Tina > >> > >> > >> > >Usually this happens if there is no unique index on the joined fields > >in the parent table. > > > > > >-- > >Lexacorp Ltd > >http://www.lexacorp.com.pg > >Information Technology Consultancy, Software Development,System > >Support. > > > > > > > >-- > >_______________________________________________ > >AccessD mailing list > >AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > >http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > >Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > > > > > > > > > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From paul.hartland at fsmail.net Mon Mar 1 05:17:22 2004 From: paul.hartland at fsmail.net (paul.hartland at fsmail.net) Date: Mon, 1 Mar 2004 12:17:22 +0100 (CET) Subject: [AccessD] Help With Charts Urgent - x posted Message-ID: <315838.1078139842411.JavaMail.www@wwinf3002> To all, Here we go, always wondered when I would be asked to produce a chart in Excel. So I need all the help I can get here please. I have a file in Excel I have managed to select the columns that I want to use for the chart which are Job Number, Count Rate and Target and I have managed to produce a basic grid. But it?s not quite how I want it to appear, the chart is including the job number in the chart when I actually want the job number at the bottom of the chart (x axis). Can anyone tell me how to use the Job Number as the x axis. Thanks in advance for all your help. Paul Hartland Freeserve AnyTime - HALF PRICE for the first 3 months - Save ?7.50 a month www.freeserve.com/anytime From rsmethurst at UK.EY.COM Mon Mar 1 05:27:17 2004 From: rsmethurst at UK.EY.COM (rsmethurst at UK.EY.COM) Date: Mon, 1 Mar 2004 11:27:17 +0000 Subject: [AccessD] Help With Charts Urgent - x posted Message-ID: Paul, An easiy(ish) way to get it perfected in Excel (if you are not too familiar with the object model) is to run a macro whilst creating the chart object (using the wizard) and then follow the created code to see what you need to change. In terms of this problem... If you use the Chart wizard to create your chart in Excel, and then (in step 2 of 4) select the 'SERIES IN : (columns/row - depending)' radio button, and on the next tab of that same step in the wizard, remove the axis series...it will go someway to helping you with this problem. HTH, Cheers, Ryan paul.hartland at fsmail.net Sent by: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com 01/03/2004 11:17 Please respond to Access Developers discussion and problem solving To: accessd cc: Subject: [AccessD] Help With Charts Urgent - x posted To all, Here we go, always wondered when I would be asked to produce a chart in Excel. So I need all the help I can get here please. I have a file in Excel I have managed to select the columns that I want to use for the chart which are Job Number, Count Rate and Target and I have managed to produce a basic grid. But it's not quite how I want it to appear, the chart is including the job number in the chart when I actually want the job number at the bottom of the chart (x axis). Can anyone tell me how to use the Job Number as the x axis. Thanks in advance for all your help. Paul Hartland Freeserve AnyTime - HALF PRICE for the first 3 months - Save ?7.50 a month www.freeserve.com/anytime -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com This e-mail and any attachment are confidential and contain proprietary information, some or all of which may be legally privileged. It is intended solely for the use of the individual or entity to which it is addressed. If you are not the intended recipient, please notify the author immediately by telephone or by replying to this e-mail, and then delete all copies of the e-mail on your system. If you are not the intended recipient, you must not use, disclose, distribute, copy, print or rely on this e-mail. Whilst we have taken reasonable precautions to ensure that this e-mail and any attachment has been checked for viruses, we cannot guarantee that they are virus free and we cannot accept liability for any damage sustained as a result of software viruses. We would advise that you carry out your own virus checks, especially before opening an attachment. The UK firm Ernst & Young LLP is a limited liability partnership registered in England and Wales with registered number OC300001 and is a member practice of Ernst & Young Global. A list of members' names is available for inspection at 1 More London Place, London, SE1 2AF, the firm's principal place of business and its registered office. From Jdemarco at hudsonhealthplan.org Mon Mar 1 07:19:58 2004 From: Jdemarco at hudsonhealthplan.org (Jim DeMarco) Date: Mon, 1 Mar 2004 08:19:58 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] A2K MDE Runtime Reference problem - URGENT Message-ID: <22F1CCD5171D17419CB37FEEE09D5F9902E7FD1E@TTNEXCHSRV1.hshhp.com> We have an open source app that we've modified and are installing at various doctor's offices in the area. The application came with an installation routine that installs the A2K runtime and the app MDE. We use the install the app came with then overwrite the app MDE with our modified version. The application runs fine in-house after overwriting the MDE (Win2K) but on a contractor's machine (WinXP) and a client's machine (Win98) we're losing a library reference (Date displays and functions calling Date functions fail with #Name? error). Since it's an MDE we can't see or adjust the references (or can we?). Does anyone know how we can get the references straightened out? Are the client machines missing a DLL by chance?. I've been attempting to create our own install package using InstallShield but it's looking for an *.msi file for the Access Runtime. I'm not sure where to find that either. I'm also not really sure a fresh install package will fix the reference problem anyway. TIA, Jim DeMarco Director Product Development Hudson Health Plan From rl_stewart at highstream.net Mon Mar 1 07:36:04 2004 From: rl_stewart at highstream.net (Robert L. Stewart) Date: Mon, 01 Mar 2004 07:36:04 -0600 Subject: [AccessD] Re: Watching data In-Reply-To: <200402291616.i1TGGHM03065@databaseadvisors.com> Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20040301073412.02927108@pop3.highstream.net> John, One of the ways this is handled in a data warehouse is to just write a history record with all of the previous information. For your report, you could show the current data and the previous data. RObert At 10:16 AM 2/29/2004 -0600, you wrote: >From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com >[mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of John W. Colby >Sent: Saturday, February 28, 2004 4:04 AM >To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving >Subject: RE: [AccessD] Watching data > > >Well... the data isn't normalized to that extent, i.e. I don't have an >"Address table". A claimant has a single address, and that is embedded >directly in the Claimant table. Thus a timestamp would only tell me >that the claimant table had changed, not that the address portion of the >table had changed. Maybe she got married and changed her name? The >Date of Birth was corrected? The name was mis-spelled and the >mis-spelling was corrected? > >John W. Colby >www.ColbyConsulting.com > >-----Original Message----- >From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com >[mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Gustav Brock >Sent: Saturday, February 28, 2004 4:35 AM >To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving >Subject: Re: [AccessD] Watching data > > >Hi John > >Wouldn't it be much easier to add timestamps and track these? If the >timestamp of an address is newer than that recorded for the case, >"something else" has changed the address. > >/gustav > > > > I need a system for watching specific data fields in specific tables > > for changes. For example, if the Policy holder address changes, the > > claimant address changes, the Payment location (address) changes etc. > > > If ANY of these change then I need to gather the information and at > > the end of the >day > > email a report to the client (the insurance company) spelling out the > > changes, what object the fields belonged to (Claimant, Policy Holder >etc.). From jimdettman at earthlink.net Mon Mar 1 07:41:52 2004 From: jimdettman at earthlink.net (Jim Dettman) Date: Mon, 1 Mar 2004 08:41:52 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Watching data In-Reply-To: <404249E9.82F4661E@nanaimo.ark.com> Message-ID: Tony, << STable = Rst(Me(MyCtl).ControlSource).SourceTable SField = Rst(Me(MyCtl).ControlSource).SourceField >> Been a long time since I found something in Access that I didn't know existed! I was shocked to realize this has been in DAO since version 2.0! That really makes what John is trying to do super easy. Good job! Jim Dettman President, Online Computer Services of WNY, Inc. (315) 699-3443 jimdettman at earthlink.net -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Tony Septav Sent: Sunday, February 29, 2004 3:22 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Watching data Hey John Tried a quick test with a bound form to a query. Query contained 2 tables. My test field in the query had an alias eg. Tblname Account_Number, Qryname AcctNum For the sake of the test the text box on the form was named with an alias ActNo, control source from query Acctnum In Before Update Dim Db As Database, Rst As Recordset Dim Rst2 As Recordset Dim MyCtl As String Dim STable As String, SField As String Dim Ctl As Control Set Ctl = Me.ActiveControl MyCtl = Ctl.Name 'check to see if value has changed (variable HasChng assigned OnEnter) 'if changed Set Db = CurrentDb() Set Rst = Db.OpenRecordset(Me.RecordSource, dbOpenDynaset) STable = Rst(Me(MyCtl).ControlSource).SourceTable SField = Rst(Me(MyCtl).ControlSource).SourceField 'Assumes all tables have a Logger field ' Find the record and tag it Set Rst2 = Db.OpenRecordset("select Logger from " & STable & " where " & SField & " = " & HasChng & ";", dbOpenDynaset) Rst2.Edit Rst2!Logger = "Yes" Rst2.Update rst2.close set Rst2=nothing Rst.Close set Rst=nothing 'endif As I say this was a quick test but "Yes" did appear in the appropriate table and record. "John W. Colby" wrote: > >I just thought of another one; what if you assign the forms recordsource to > a recordset variable in code so you can do transactions? I've never looked > at runtime to see what that looks like to a form object. > > AFAIK this isn't possible in A2K. > > John W. Colby > www.ColbyConsulting.com > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Jim Dettman > Sent: Sunday, February 29, 2004 2:37 PM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: RE: [AccessD] Watching data > > John, > > < by > (I think) opening the query that the form is bound to, looking up the field > that the control is bound to, and looking at the properties of that field in > the query to discover what table / field the data comes from.>> > > Thought I had missed the boat on that one. > > < new val" how do we discover the Tablename / Fieldname portion?>> > > I used the brute force approach in the past; I coded the table and field > name that I wanted logged in the tag property for each control. > > Without doing that, you'd need to grab the form's recordsource and figure > out what it is. It could be a table name, query def, or SQL statement. The > first would be easy, as from that point you'd only need the controls record > source. The second you can figure out easy enough, but parsing it would be > a problem, especially if it in itself is based on sub queries. That applies > to querydef's as well. > > I'm not sure what Drew was thinking of, but I don't see any easy answers > there. > > I just thought of another one; what if you assign the forms recordsource > to a recordset variable in code so you can do transactions? I've never > looked at runtime to see what that looks like to a form object. > > Jim Dettman > President, > Online Computer Services of WNY, Inc. > (315) 699-3443 > jimdettman at earthlink.net > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of John W. Colby > Sent: Sunday, February 29, 2004 12:38 PM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: RE: [AccessD] Watching data > > >but I'm assuming what you mean by "drilling down" is looping through all > the controls > > I do control collection iteration collection all the time, starting with my > form class which has a control scanner (as I call it) which iterates the > controls collection loading classes for each control found. > > No, by "drilling down" I mean discovering what the SOURCE of the data is by > (I think) opening the query that the form is bound to, looking up the field > that the control is bound to, and looking at the properties of that field in > the query to discover what table / field the data comes from. > > When a form / field is bound to data, what the data is can be non-trivial to > discover. For example the form could be bound to a query. The developer > decides that rather than leaving the field names of that query alone, he is > going to rename CL_Addr1 to Address1 using field name aliases. Further the > query could be two or more tables linked together in the query (and still > editable) so that fields from the claimant and a specific claim are all > bound to controls on a form. Now when the data logger tries to log the > data, what table is the data coming from, the claimant or the claim? > Further is Address1 the actual field name in the table or is it an alias? > > Thus when it's time to log data and we want "table / field name / oldval / > new val" how do we discover the Tablename / Fieldname portion? > > John W. Colby > www.ColbyConsulting.com > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Jim Dettman > Sent: Sunday, February 29, 2004 11:15 AM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: RE: [AccessD] Watching data > > John, > > < believe > that Drew was the one that assured me that it is possible. I just have to > see if I can find the hints of how. It had to do with opening the query and > inspecting the properties of the fields.>> > > I missed earlier parts of this discussion, but I'm assuming what you mean > by "drilling down" is looping through all the controls, then yes it > certainly can be done. Any of the code floating out there to resize forms > contains the logic required. If you don't have access to something like > that, it's a pretty straight forward matter. > > Starting at the form level, you'd use the controls collection to iterate > through all the controls for an object. Just be aware that you'll need to > handle container controls (i.e. page frames and subforms), so it will be a > series of nested loops. You might want to try and make it a recursive > procedure. Performance wise, you also might want to restrict which controls > are looked at. For example, if you don't place controls in anything other > then the detail section of forms, then no need to check the header and > footer. > > Once you locate a control, you use the TypeOf function to figure out what > it is and if you need to deal with it. I would not bother checking the > .enabled or .locked properties, but simply check .oldvalue vs .value, as it > should be faster that way. > > This would all be done in the BeforeUpdate event after your sure your not > going to cancel for any reason. > > As far as the change log, I've always used the approach of one record per > field change: > > tblLogID - Autonumber -PK > LogDateTime - D/T > LogType - String - "A"dd, "D"elete, "U"pdate > TableName - String > RecordPK - String > FieldName - String > TypeOf - Numeric - Indicates where "NewValue" is stored > NewValue1 - String > NewValue2 - Integer > NewValue3 - Long > NewValue4 - Single > etc.... > > I don't bother to hold the .oldvalue because you'd be duplicating it in > the table. You can also see that I don't bother to try and convert the > .oldvalue into a common type (i.e. a string), but rather store the actual > value. If I had access to the raw binary data, then I'd do so, but without > that, this seemed to be the cleanest way. > > I've used two different types of logic in working with the log file: > > Roll forward - used to recreate a database at a specific point in time. > 1. Check point (backup) > 2. Apply log changes in a "roll forward" to a specific date and time. > > Auditing: > 1. Log file records are maintained as long as possible. > > I've primarily used this in HR type apps or others where it was required > to recreate the data at a specific point in time. I haven't had to use > logging/auditing in quite some time, but it was workable. I went with > strings for the table name and field names, but I suppose you could come up > with some type of internal tracking system to use a numeric ID of some type, > but that is probably overkill. The only gotcha there is if you rename a > table or field. Generally, that doesn't happen too often for me. > > HTH, > Jim Dettman > President, > Online Computer Services of WNY, Inc. > (315) 699-3443 > jimdettman at earthlink.net > > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From gustav at cactus.dk Mon Mar 1 07:51:42 2004 From: gustav at cactus.dk (Gustav Brock) Date: Mon, 1 Mar 2004 14:51:42 +0100 Subject: [AccessD] A2K MDE Runtime Reference problem - URGENT In-Reply-To: <22F1CCD5171D17419CB37FEEE09D5F9902E7FD1E@TTNEXCHSRV1.hshhp.com> References: <22F1CCD5171D17419CB37FEEE09D5F9902E7FD1E@TTNEXCHSRV1.hshhp.com> Message-ID: <2521084037.20040301145142@cactus.dk> Hi Jim One source for the error may be that the default name for the Windows directory is WinNT in WinNT/2000 but Windows in Win 9x and Win XP. But what were the references in the original MDE? Does that MDE run under WinXP? If so, can you modify your MDE to have references as those of the original MDE? Or you could create a c:\windows folder on your Win2000 machine, copy the libraries to this and adjust your references before creating the MDE. Or you could follow the advice of Charlotte, I believe, and move your libraries to the folder of your installed MDE; but that would require an adjustment of your install script and you wanted to avoid that, right? /gustav > We have an open source app that we've modified and are installing at various doctor's offices in the area. The application came with an installation routine that installs the A2K runtime and the > app MDE. We use the install the app came with then overwrite the app MDE with our modified version. The application runs fine in-house after overwriting the MDE (Win2K) but on a contractor's > machine (WinXP) and a client's machine (Win98) we're losing a library reference (Date displays and functions calling Date functions fail with #Name? error). Since it's an MDE we can't see or > adjust the references (or can we?). Does anyone know how we can get the references straightened out? Are the client machines missing a DLL by chance?. > I've been attempting to create our own install package using InstallShield but it's looking for an *.msi file for the Access Runtime. I'm not sure where to find that either. I'm also not really > sure a fresh install package will fix the reference problem anyway. > TIA, > Jim DeMarco > Director Product Development > Hudson Health Plan From gustav at cactus.dk Mon Mar 1 07:54:27 2004 From: gustav at cactus.dk (Gustav Brock) Date: Mon, 1 Mar 2004 14:54:27 +0100 Subject: [AccessD] Watching data In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <3421249985.20040301145427@cactus.dk> Hi Jim DAO rules! /gustav >> STable = Rst(Me(MyCtl).ControlSource).SourceTable >> SField = Rst(Me(MyCtl).ControlSource).SourceField > Been a long time since I found something in Access that I didn't know > existed! I was shocked to realize this has been in DAO since version 2.0! > That really makes what John is trying to do super easy. > Good job! > Jim Dettman From iggy at nanaimo.ark.com Mon Mar 1 08:01:18 2004 From: iggy at nanaimo.ark.com (Tony Septav) Date: Mon, 01 Mar 2004 06:01:18 -0800 Subject: [AccessD] Watching data References: Message-ID: <4043422D.A95A6734@nanaimo.ark.com> Hey John You will have to be careful if the developer uses field names like Account Number rather than Account_Number You will have to insert [] brackets around the sourcefield Set Rst2 = Db.OpenRecordset("select Logger from " & STable & " where [" & SField & "] = " & HasChng & ";", dbOpenDynaset) "John W. Colby" wrote: > Tony, > > The following is what I ended up with: > > ' > 'This function iterates the mfrm's control collection looking up the > control's table and field names > ' > 'Since I sometimes open the form unbound, I need to do all this in a > separate function after binding the form > 'to a table. > ' > Public Function CtlDataSrc() > On Error GoTo Err_CtlDataSrc > Dim rst As DAO.Recordset > Dim ctl As Control > Dim strSrcTbl As String > Dim strSrcFld As String > > 'Get a copy of the form's Recordset > Set rst = mfrm.RecordsetClone > 'Iterate the controls collection for the form > For Each ctl In mfrm.Controls > Debug.Print ctl.Name > 'attempt tp get the source table name for the field the control is > bound to. > err.Clear > On Error Resume Next > strSrcTbl = rst(ctl.ControlSource).SourceTable > If err = 0 Then 'If there is no error (the field is bound to a field > and the source table is found) > mobjChildren(ctl.Name).BoundTbl = strSrcTbl 'look up the class > in mobjChildren collection and pass the class the table name > End If > 'Do the same stuff for the source field name > strSrcFld = rst(ctl.ControlSource).SourceField > If err = 0 Then > mobjChildren(ctl.Name).BoundFld = strSrcFld > End If > Next ctl > > Exit_CtlDataSrc: > On Error Resume Next > If Not (rst Is Nothing) Then rst.Close: Set rst = Nothing > Exit Function > Err_CtlDataSrc: > MsgBox err.Description, , "Error in Function dclsFrm.CtlDataSrc" > Resume Exit_CtlDataSrc > Resume 0 '.FOR TROUBLESHOOTING > End Function > > This assumes a pair of private string variables in each data aware class: > > ' > 'Used for change logging > ' > Private mstrBoundTbl As String 'The Table that this control is > bound to > Private mstrBoundFld As String 'The field in the table that > this control is bound to > > and corresponding property get/let statements to access the variables: > > ' > 'Properties for the bound field / table (properties of the control class) > ' > Public Property Get BoundTbl() As String > BoundTbl = mstrBoundTbl > End Property > Public Property Let BoundTbl(strTblName As String) > mstrBoundTbl = strTblName > End Property > Public Property Get BoundFld() As String > BoundFld = mstrBoundFld > End Property > Public Property Let BoundFld(strFldName As String) > mstrBoundFld = strFldName > End Property > > So far it all appears to be working flawlessly. I added the variables and > properties to all of my control classes that are for bound controls and I'm > off and running. > > That takes care of each control knowing it's table / field. > > Next I have to do the code to tell each such control to store the old value > and return the various old / new values. I do think I'll write a > DataLogger class to handle the issue of storing sets of controls to log data > for as well as the logic of when to save the old values, when to return the > various pieces for logging, handling the log table etc. > > I think this is going to work nicely though. > > John W. Colby > www.ColbyConsulting.com > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Tony Septav > Sent: Sunday, February 29, 2004 3:22 PM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: Re: [AccessD] Watching data > > Hey John > > Tried a quick test with a bound form to a query. > Query contained 2 tables. My test field in the query had an alias > eg. Tblname Account_Number, Qryname AcctNum > For the sake of the test the text box on the form was named with an alias > ActNo, control source from query Acctnum > > In Before Update > > Dim Db As Database, Rst As Recordset > Dim Rst2 As Recordset > Dim MyCtl As String > Dim STable As String, SField As String > Dim Ctl As Control > > Set Ctl = Me.ActiveControl > MyCtl = Ctl.Name > > 'check to see if value has changed (variable HasChng assigned OnEnter) > 'if changed > > Set Db = CurrentDb() > Set Rst = Db.OpenRecordset(Me.RecordSource, dbOpenDynaset) > STable = Rst(Me(MyCtl).ControlSource).SourceTable > SField = Rst(Me(MyCtl).ControlSource).SourceField > > 'Assumes all tables have a Logger field > ' Find the record and tag it > > Set Rst2 = Db.OpenRecordset("select Logger from " & STable & " where " > & > SField & " = " & HasChng & ";", dbOpenDynaset) > Rst2.Edit > Rst2!Logger = "Yes" > Rst2.Update > rst2.close > set Rst2=nothing > Rst.Close > set Rst=nothing > 'endif > As I say this was a quick test but "Yes" did appear in the appropriate table > and > record. > > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From Jdemarco at hudsonhealthplan.org Mon Mar 1 08:13:08 2004 From: Jdemarco at hudsonhealthplan.org (Jim DeMarco) Date: Mon, 1 Mar 2004 09:13:08 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] A2K MDE Runtime Reference problem - URGENT Message-ID: <22F1CCD5171D17419CB37FEEE09D5F990173FDD1@TTNEXCHSRV1.hshhp.com> Gustav, The real mystery is that we have not changed or added any references. It just seems the date fields that have the problem. Thanks, Jim DeMarco -----Original Message----- From: Gustav Brock [mailto:gustav at cactus.dk] Sent: Monday, March 01, 2004 8:52 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] A2K MDE Runtime Reference problem - URGENT Hi Jim One source for the error may be that the default name for the Windows directory is WinNT in WinNT/2000 but Windows in Win 9x and Win XP. But what were the references in the original MDE? Does that MDE run under WinXP? If so, can you modify your MDE to have references as those of the original MDE? Or you could create a c:\windows folder on your Win2000 machine, copy the libraries to this and adjust your references before creating the MDE. Or you could follow the advice of Charlotte, I believe, and move your libraries to the folder of your installed MDE; but that would require an adjustment of your install script and you wanted to avoid that, right? /gustav > We have an open source app that we've modified and are installing at various doctor's offices in the area. The application came with an installation routine that installs the A2K runtime and the > app MDE. We use the install the app came with then overwrite the app MDE with our modified version. The application runs fine in-house after overwriting the MDE (Win2K) but on a contractor's > machine (WinXP) and a client's machine (Win98) we're losing a library reference (Date displays and functions calling Date functions fail with #Name? error). Since it's an MDE we can't see or > adjust the references (or can we?). Does anyone know how we can get the references straightened out? Are the client machines missing a DLL by chance?. > I've been attempting to create our own install package using InstallShield but it's looking for an *.msi file for the Access Runtime. I'm not sure where to find that either. I'm also not really > sure a fresh install package will fix the reference problem anyway. > TIA, > Jim DeMarco > Director Product Development > Hudson Health Plan -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From iggy at nanaimo.ark.com Mon Mar 1 08:16:40 2004 From: iggy at nanaimo.ark.com (Tony Septav) Date: Mon, 01 Mar 2004 06:16:40 -0800 Subject: [AccessD] Watching data References: Message-ID: <404345C8.B7D9E5BA@nanaimo.ark.com> Hey Jim There are a lot of little gems buried in Access, it is just being able to find them when you need them. That is what makes this list so valuable. Jim Dettman wrote: > Tony, > > << STable = Rst(Me(MyCtl).ControlSource).SourceTable > SField = Rst(Me(MyCtl).ControlSource).SourceField > >> > > Been a long time since I found something in Access that I didn't know > existed! I was shocked to realize this has been in DAO since version 2.0! > > That really makes what John is trying to do super easy. > > Good job! > > Jim Dettman > President, > Online Computer Services of WNY, Inc. > (315) 699-3443 > jimdettman at earthlink.net > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Tony Septav > Sent: Sunday, February 29, 2004 3:22 PM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: Re: [AccessD] Watching data > > Hey John > > Tried a quick test with a bound form to a query. > Query contained 2 tables. My test field in the query had an alias > eg. Tblname Account_Number, Qryname AcctNum > For the sake of the test the text box on the form was named with an alias > ActNo, control source from query Acctnum > > In Before Update > > Dim Db As Database, Rst As Recordset > Dim Rst2 As Recordset > Dim MyCtl As String > Dim STable As String, SField As String > Dim Ctl As Control > > Set Ctl = Me.ActiveControl > MyCtl = Ctl.Name > > 'check to see if value has changed (variable HasChng assigned OnEnter) > 'if changed > > Set Db = CurrentDb() > Set Rst = Db.OpenRecordset(Me.RecordSource, dbOpenDynaset) > STable = Rst(Me(MyCtl).ControlSource).SourceTable > SField = Rst(Me(MyCtl).ControlSource).SourceField > > 'Assumes all tables have a Logger field > ' Find the record and tag it > > Set Rst2 = Db.OpenRecordset("select Logger from " & STable & " where " > & > SField & " = " & HasChng & ";", dbOpenDynaset) > Rst2.Edit > Rst2!Logger = "Yes" > Rst2.Update > rst2.close > set Rst2=nothing > Rst.Close > set Rst=nothing > 'endif > As I say this was a quick test but "Yes" did appear in the appropriate table > and > record. > > "John W. Colby" wrote: > > > >I just thought of another one; what if you assign the forms recordsource > to > > a recordset variable in code so you can do transactions? I've never > looked > > at runtime to see what that looks like to a form object. > > > > AFAIK this isn't possible in A2K. > > > > John W. Colby > > www.ColbyConsulting.com > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Jim Dettman > > Sent: Sunday, February 29, 2004 2:37 PM > > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > > Subject: RE: [AccessD] Watching data > > > > John, > > > > < > by > > (I think) opening the query that the form is bound to, looking up the > field > > that the control is bound to, and looking at the properties of that field > in > > the query to discover what table / field the data comes from.>> > > > > Thought I had missed the boat on that one. > > > > < / > > new val" how do we discover the Tablename / Fieldname portion?>> > > > > I used the brute force approach in the past; I coded the table and field > > name that I wanted logged in the tag property for each control. > > > > Without doing that, you'd need to grab the form's recordsource and > figure > > out what it is. It could be a table name, query def, or SQL statement. > The > > first would be easy, as from that point you'd only need the controls > record > > source. The second you can figure out easy enough, but parsing it would > be > > a problem, especially if it in itself is based on sub queries. That > applies > > to querydef's as well. > > > > I'm not sure what Drew was thinking of, but I don't see any easy answers > > there. > > > > I just thought of another one; what if you assign the forms recordsource > > to a recordset variable in code so you can do transactions? I've never > > looked at runtime to see what that looks like to a form object. > > > > Jim Dettman > > President, > > Online Computer Services of WNY, Inc. > > (315) 699-3443 > > jimdettman at earthlink.net > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of John W. Colby > > Sent: Sunday, February 29, 2004 12:38 PM > > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > > Subject: RE: [AccessD] Watching data > > > > >but I'm assuming what you mean by "drilling down" is looping through all > > the controls > > > > I do control collection iteration collection all the time, starting with > my > > form class which has a control scanner (as I call it) which iterates the > > controls collection loading classes for each control found. > > > > No, by "drilling down" I mean discovering what the SOURCE of the data is > by > > (I think) opening the query that the form is bound to, looking up the > field > > that the control is bound to, and looking at the properties of that field > in > > the query to discover what table / field the data comes from. > > > > When a form / field is bound to data, what the data is can be non-trivial > to > > discover. For example the form could be bound to a query. The developer > > decides that rather than leaving the field names of that query alone, he > is > > going to rename CL_Addr1 to Address1 using field name aliases. Further > the > > query could be two or more tables linked together in the query (and still > > editable) so that fields from the claimant and a specific claim are all > > bound to controls on a form. Now when the data logger tries to log the > > data, what table is the data coming from, the claimant or the claim? > > Further is Address1 the actual field name in the table or is it an alias? > > > > Thus when it's time to log data and we want "table / field name / oldval / > > new val" how do we discover the Tablename / Fieldname portion? > > > > John W. Colby > > www.ColbyConsulting.com > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Jim Dettman > > Sent: Sunday, February 29, 2004 11:15 AM > > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > > Subject: RE: [AccessD] Watching data > > > > John, > > > > < > believe > > that Drew was the one that assured me that it is possible. I just have to > > see if I can find the hints of how. It had to do with opening the query > and > > inspecting the properties of the fields.>> > > > > I missed earlier parts of this discussion, but I'm assuming what you > mean > > by "drilling down" is looping through all the controls, then yes it > > certainly can be done. Any of the code floating out there to resize forms > > contains the logic required. If you don't have access to something like > > that, it's a pretty straight forward matter. > > > > Starting at the form level, you'd use the controls collection to iterate > > through all the controls for an object. Just be aware that you'll need to > > handle container controls (i.e. page frames and subforms), so it will be a > > series of nested loops. You might want to try and make it a recursive > > procedure. Performance wise, you also might want to restrict which > controls > > are looked at. For example, if you don't place controls in anything other > > then the detail section of forms, then no need to check the header and > > footer. > > > > Once you locate a control, you use the TypeOf function to figure out > what > > it is and if you need to deal with it. I would not bother checking the > > .enabled or .locked properties, but simply check .oldvalue vs .value, as > it > > should be faster that way. > > > > This would all be done in the BeforeUpdate event after your sure your > not > > going to cancel for any reason. > > > > As far as the change log, I've always used the approach of one record > per > > field change: > > > > tblLogID - Autonumber -PK > > LogDateTime - D/T > > LogType - String - "A"dd, "D"elete, "U"pdate > > TableName - String > > RecordPK - String > > FieldName - String > > TypeOf - Numeric - Indicates where "NewValue" is stored > > NewValue1 - String > > NewValue2 - Integer > > NewValue3 - Long > > NewValue4 - Single > > etc.... > > > > I don't bother to hold the .oldvalue because you'd be duplicating it in > > the table. You can also see that I don't bother to try and convert the > > .oldvalue into a common type (i.e. a string), but rather store the actual > > value. If I had access to the raw binary data, then I'd do so, but > without > > that, this seemed to be the cleanest way. > > > > I've used two different types of logic in working with the log file: > > > > Roll forward - used to recreate a database at a specific point in time. > > 1. Check point (backup) > > 2. Apply log changes in a "roll forward" to a specific date and time. > > > > Auditing: > > 1. Log file records are maintained as long as possible. > > > > I've primarily used this in HR type apps or others where it was required > > to recreate the data at a specific point in time. I haven't had to use > > logging/auditing in quite some time, but it was workable. I went with > > strings for the table name and field names, but I suppose you could come > up > > with some type of internal tracking system to use a numeric ID of some > type, > > but that is probably overkill. The only gotcha there is if you rename a > > table or field. Generally, that doesn't happen too often for me. > > > > HTH, > > Jim Dettman > > President, > > Online Computer Services of WNY, Inc. > > (315) 699-3443 > > jimdettman at earthlink.net > > > > -- > > _______________________________________________ > > AccessD mailing list > > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > -- > > _______________________________________________ > > AccessD mailing list > > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > -- > > _______________________________________________ > > AccessD mailing list > > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From joconnell at indy.rr.com Mon Mar 1 08:19:44 2004 From: joconnell at indy.rr.com (Joseph O'Connell) Date: Mon, 1 Mar 2004 09:19:44 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Cannot Enforce Referential Integrity Message-ID: <014501c3ff98$5195f5c0$6701a8c0@joe> Tina, Are the tables in the same database? Referential Integrity cannot be enforced between databases. If the parent table is in a BE and the child table is in the FE then the child table must be moved to the same BE to allow referential integrity. Joe O'Connell -----Original Message----- From: Tina Norris Fields To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Date: Sunday, February 29, 2004 3:26 PM Subject: Re: [AccessD] Cannot Enforce Referential Integrity |Thanks John and Stuart. She indicated that the joined fields were PK in |parent table and FK in child table - but, I will double check. Thanks |for the thoughts. |Tina | |John W. Colby wrote: | |>Actually if the field in the parent is not designated the PK and / or no |>index on the child FK. |> |>John W. Colby |>www.ColbyConsulting.com |> |>-----Original Message----- |>From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com |>[mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Stuart |>McLachlan |>Sent: Saturday, February 28, 2004 6:14 PM |>To: Access Developers discussion and problemsolving |>Subject: Re: [AccessD] Cannot Enforce Referential Integrity |> |> |>On 28 Feb 2004 at 15:28, Tina Norris Fields wrote: |> |> |> |>>A student of mine is trying to remodel a database for her employer. I |>>think the database was converted from A97 to AXP (A2K format). She was |>>reviewing the relationships and wanted to enforce referential integrity |>>on one or more relationships. She reports that the checkbox for |>>enforcing referential integrity was dimmed and unavailable. I don't |>>know much more about this particular database. Any ideas as to why the |>>enforce referential integrity choice would be made unavailable? |>>Thanks, |>>Tina |>> |>> |>> |>Usually this happens if there is no unique index on the joined fields |>in the parent table. |> |> |>-- |>Lexacorp Ltd |>http://www.lexacorp.com.pg |>Information Technology Consultancy, Software Development,System |>Support. |> |> |> |>-- |>_______________________________________________ |>AccessD mailing list |>AccessD at databaseadvisors.com |>http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd |>Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com |> |> |> |> |> | |-- |_______________________________________________ |AccessD mailing list |AccessD at databaseadvisors.com |http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd |Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From gustav at cactus.dk Mon Mar 1 08:32:24 2004 From: gustav at cactus.dk (Gustav Brock) Date: Mon, 1 Mar 2004 15:32:24 +0100 Subject: [AccessD] A2K MDE Runtime Reference problem - URGENT In-Reply-To: <22F1CCD5171D17419CB37FEEE09D5F990173FDD1@TTNEXCHSRV1.hshhp.com> References: <22F1CCD5171D17419CB37FEEE09D5F990173FDD1@TTNEXCHSRV1.hshhp.com> Message-ID: <13223526228.20040301153224@cactus.dk> Hi Jim The Date fields are the symptom only. The cure is to locate and reestablish one or more missing reference. Access will - and is quite good at it but not perfect - try to locate any missing reference in the current environment, thus adjusting the path for each of these references. Maybe Access succeeded when the MDE was moved to your platform (Win2000 and C:\WINNT) but failed when it moved "back" (Win 9x/XP and C:\Windows) at the clients. /gustav > The real mystery is that we have not changed or added any references. It just seems the date fields that have the problem. From ssharkins at bellsouth.net Mon Mar 1 08:38:01 2004 From: ssharkins at bellsouth.net (Susan Harkins) Date: Mon, 1 Mar 2004 09:38:01 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] OT -- FP question Message-ID: <20040301143800.NYQI1860.imf24aec.mail.bellsouth.net@SUSANONE> I asked a FrontPage question over on OT before coming here -- no takers. I've checked the Internet, Help -- even a few other experts and not found anything. The new FrontPage 2003 File menu has an option "Go to Function" -- I've no clue what it is and it has been disabled since day one -- no matter what view I'm in. Can anyone tell me what this command does and how to enable it? I've run a Repair, and it's still always disabled. Susan H. From mwp.reid at qub.ac.uk Mon Mar 1 08:45:19 2004 From: mwp.reid at qub.ac.uk (Martin Reid) Date: Mon, 1 Mar 2004 14:45:19 -0000 Subject: [AccessD] OT -- FP question References: <20040301143800.NYQI1860.imf24aec.mail.bellsouth.net@SUSANONE> Message-ID: <000901c3ff9b$d13633f0$9111758f@aine> I believe it gos to a specific named function when in code view only. Try using it with a .NET page and see what it does. Didnt see this on OT. Martin ----- Original Message ----- From: "Susan Harkins" To: "'Access Developers discussion and problem solving'" Sent: Monday, March 01, 2004 2:38 PM Subject: [AccessD] OT -- FP question > I asked a FrontPage question over on OT before coming here -- no takers. > I've checked the Internet, Help -- even a few other experts and not found > anything. > > The new FrontPage 2003 File menu has an option "Go to Function" -- I've no > clue what it is and it has been disabled since day one -- no matter what > view I'm in. Can anyone tell me what this command does and how to enable it? > I've run a Repair, and it's still always disabled. > > Susan H. > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > From ssharkins at bellsouth.net Mon Mar 1 08:56:44 2004 From: ssharkins at bellsouth.net (Susan Harkins) Date: Mon, 1 Mar 2004 09:56:44 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] OT -- FP question In-Reply-To: <000901c3ff9b$d13633f0$9111758f@aine> Message-ID: <20040301145644.CIZJ1897.imf18aec.mail.bellsouth.net@SUSANONE> Don't even have .NET installed Martin -- and no, didn't ask this one on OT, but another FP question -- this function isn't enabled in Code view -- never enabled. I've tried them all -- all that I know of anyway. And I can't find anything in Help on it -- it's like it doesn't exist! I forgot what the other question was. I guess I solved it on my own. Gotta say -- I find FP 2003 much easier to use than Dreamweaver MX -- but I don't want to start a thread on this -- not here, I'll get in trouble! ;) If you figure it out, would you send me a response privately? I guess anyone that knows ought to respond privately if they don't mind. Thank you. ;) Susan H. I believe it gos to a specific named function when in code view only. Try using it with a .NET page and see what it does. Didnt see this on OT. Martin ----- Original Message ----- From: "Susan Harkins" To: "'Access Developers discussion and problem solving'" Sent: Monday, March 01, 2004 2:38 PM Subject: [AccessD] OT -- FP question > I asked a FrontPage question over on OT before coming here -- no takers. > I've checked the Internet, Help -- even a few other experts and not found > anything. > > The new FrontPage 2003 File menu has an option "Go to Function" -- I've no > clue what it is and it has been disabled since day one -- no matter what > view I'm in. Can anyone tell me what this command does and how to enable it? > I've run a Repair, and it's still always disabled. > > Susan H. > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From Jdemarco at hudsonhealthplan.org Mon Mar 1 09:22:34 2004 From: Jdemarco at hudsonhealthplan.org (Jim DeMarco) Date: Mon, 1 Mar 2004 10:22:34 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] A2K MDE Runtime Reference problem - URGENT Message-ID: <22F1CCD5171D17419CB37FEEE09D5F990173FDD2@TTNEXCHSRV1.hshhp.com> I just installed on an XP system here and the app worked. Some read-only issues that I believe relate to security on the machine I was on but the date functions all worked. I seem to recall some code in the archives that set references. I'll take a look there and see what comes up. Thanks again, Jim D. -----Original Message----- From: Gustav Brock [mailto:gustav at cactus.dk] Sent: Monday, March 01, 2004 9:32 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] A2K MDE Runtime Reference problem - URGENT Hi Jim The Date fields are the symptom only. The cure is to locate and reestablish one or more missing reference. Access will - and is quite good at it but not perfect - try to locate any missing reference in the current environment, thus adjusting the path for each of these references. Maybe Access succeeded when the MDE was moved to your platform (Win2000 and C:\WINNT) but failed when it moved "back" (Win 9x/XP and C:\Windows) at the clients. /gustav > The real mystery is that we have not changed or added any references. It just seems the date fields that have the problem. -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From gustav at cactus.dk Mon Mar 1 09:33:45 2004 From: gustav at cactus.dk (Gustav Brock) Date: Mon, 1 Mar 2004 16:33:45 +0100 Subject: [AccessD] A2K MDE Runtime Reference problem - URGENT In-Reply-To: <22F1CCD5171D17419CB37FEEE09D5F990173FDD2@TTNEXCHSRV1.hshhp.com> References: <22F1CCD5171D17419CB37FEEE09D5F990173FDD2@TTNEXCHSRV1.hshhp.com> Message-ID: <11027207862.20040301163345@cactus.dk> Hi Jim Maybe your client installed it without Administrator rights - which you probably did? /gustav > I just installed on an XP system here and the app worked. Some read-only issues that I believe relate to security on the machine I was on but the date functions all worked. > I seem to recall some code in the archives that set references. I'll take a look there and see what comes up. > Thanks again, > Jim D. > -----Original Message----- > From: Gustav Brock [mailto:gustav at cactus.dk] > Sent: Monday, March 01, 2004 9:32 AM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: Re: [AccessD] A2K MDE Runtime Reference problem - URGENT > Hi Jim > The Date fields are the symptom only. > The cure is to locate and reestablish one or more missing reference. > Access will - and is quite good at it but not perfect - try to locate > any missing reference in the current environment, thus adjusting the > path for each of these references. > Maybe Access succeeded when the MDE was moved to your platform > (Win2000 and C:\WINNT) but failed when it moved "back" (Win 9x/XP and > C:\Windows) at the clients. > /gustav >> The real mystery is that we have not changed or added any references. It just seems the date fields that have the problem. From actebs at actebs.com.au Mon Mar 1 09:38:20 2004 From: actebs at actebs.com.au (ACTEBS) Date: Tue, 2 Mar 2004 02:38:20 +1100 Subject: [AccessD] Meld 3 Text Files - Urgent In-Reply-To: <883023787.20040301095041@cactus.dk> Message-ID: <002401c3ffa3$3c70bf80$0b08a8c0@carltonone.local> Hey Gustav, Many thanks to you and Paul, got me out of a bind and did the trick... Thanks again Vlad -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Gustav Brock Sent: Monday, 1 March 2004 7:51 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Meld 3 Text Files - Urgent Hi Vlad The quick-n-dirty road is to use Shell and this DOS command: copy file1.txt+file2.txt+file3.txt file.txt If you prefer VBA code and the files are relatively small, you can just open them one by one, read the lines and append them to the new file one by one. As posted many times here, Seth has on his site the basic code for reading and writing text files. /gustav > I have a small project that exports text files (3 of them) in a fixed > width format. Now the company requires that these 3 files be melded > into 1 text file only as apparently their import procedure knows when > to import the one file into separate tables at their end. > I have no problem creating the 3 separate text files, but how do you > go about melding these 3 separate files into 1? > Any ideas most welcome... > Regards > Vlad -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From Oleg_123 at xuppa.com Mon Mar 1 10:20:16 2004 From: Oleg_123 at xuppa.com (Oleg_123 at xuppa.com) Date: Mon, 1 Mar 2004 11:20:16 -0500 (EST) Subject: [AccessD] Union the transform queris ? In-Reply-To: <002401c3ffa3$3c70bf80$0b08a8c0@carltonone.local> References: <883023787.20040301095041@cactus.dk> <002401c3ffa3$3c70bf80$0b08a8c0@carltonone.local> Message-ID: <11660.63.251.87.214.1078158016.squirrel@heck.bay9.com> hey group. Is it possible to perform an union query on 2 (or more) transform queries if the field names are he same ? TRANSFORM Count([Ron Data spr].[ID]) AS Total SELECT "Closed without Investigation" AS Status FROM [Ron Data spr] WHERE ([Ron Data spr].[Preliminary Investigation Closed] >= [Forms]![Report Form]![Start_Date]) And ([Ron Data spr].[Preliminary Investigation Closed]<=[Forms]![Report Form]![End_Date]) and ([Preliminary Investigation closed] is not null and [Investigation Opened] is null) GROUP BY "Closed without Investigation" PIVOT Format([Preliminary Investigation Closed],"mmm") In ("Jan","Feb","Mar","Apr","May","Jun","Jul","Aug","Sep","Oct","Nov","Dec") TRANSFORM Count([Ron Data spr].[ID]) AS Total Union SELECT "Pre Investigation Opened" AS Status FROM [Ron Data spr] WHERE ([Ron Data spr].[Preliminary Investigation Opened] >= [Forms]![Report Form]![Start_Date]) And ([Ron Data spr].[Preliminary Investigation Opened]<=[Forms]![Report Form]![End_Date]) and [Preliminary Investigation Opened] is not null GROUP BY "Pre Investigation Opened" PIVOT Format([Preliminary Investigation Opened],"mmm") In ("Jan","Feb","Mar","Apr","May","Jun","Jul","Aug","Sep","Oct","Nov","Dec"); ----------------------------------------- Get Breaking News from CNN, ABC, NBC, CBS Now. http://www.xuppa.com/news/?link=webmail From gjgiever at yahoo.com Mon Mar 1 10:20:40 2004 From: gjgiever at yahoo.com (Gary) Date: Mon, 1 Mar 2004 08:20:40 -0800 (PST) Subject: [AccessD] File already in use Message-ID: <20040301162040.47144.qmail@web10504.mail.yahoo.com> I know this has come up before but my search is not producing anything useful. Suddenly this morning our Access 97 users are locking each other out right and left. We are getting either Error 3045 or Error 3051, both stating basically that the file is opened exclusively by another user. Our network supervisor was working on the network all weekend and I don't know what he did to it. Any ideas where to look for an answer? ===== Gary "In ancient times they had no statistics so they had to fall back on lies." --Stephen Leacock __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Get better spam protection with Yahoo! Mail. http://antispam.yahoo.com/tools From my.lists at verizon.net Mon Mar 1 10:36:11 2004 From: my.lists at verizon.net (Francisco H Tapia) Date: Mon, 01 Mar 2004 08:36:11 -0800 Subject: [AccessD] Sending multiple e-mails In-Reply-To: <70F3D727890C784291D8433E9C418F298F68@server.bondsoftware.co.nz> References: <70F3D727890C784291D8433E9C418F298F68@server.bondsoftware.co.nz> Message-ID: <4043667B.7010300@verizon.net> Try blat. I have a ssd (small sample database) you can try at the following url http://www.rogersaccesslibrary.com/OtherLibraries.asp#Tapia,Francsico let me know if you need any help. Stephen Bond wrote: >Outlook 2000 on the development box, connecting to Windows2000 Server (Exchange Server) on the server box. All e-mail addresses at present are local, on the customer's computer they won't be. > >I hope this is what you're asking for, I'm no expert in this area :< > >Stephen Bond > > > >>-----Original Message----- >>From: Stuart McLachlan [mailto:stuart at lexacorp.com.pg] >>Sent: Sunday, 29 February 2004 8:57 p.m. >>To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving >>Subject: Re: [AccessD] Sending multiple e-mails >> >> >>On 29 Feb 2004 at 20:21, Stephen Bond wrote: >> >> >> >>> The problem is the first record in the recordset pops up as a >>> new mail message OK, but subsequent records don't. The >>> debugging MsgBox comes up for each record so I know the loop >>> is getting the right records. Changing the SendObject's >>> 'editmessage' flag from True to False doesn't make any difference. >>> Eventually I want to change the SendObject's 'editmessage' >>> flag from True to False so the e-mails go straight out >>> without visual verification. The False is for testing >>> purposes meantime. >>> >>> >>> >>What's the mail client? I'd suspect a problem with the client >>accepting a second new message when the first one is open. >> >> -- -Francisco From Jdemarco at hudsonhealthplan.org Mon Mar 1 10:52:42 2004 From: Jdemarco at hudsonhealthplan.org (Jim DeMarco) Date: Mon, 1 Mar 2004 11:52:42 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] A2K MDE Runtime Reference problem - URGENT Message-ID: <22F1CCD5171D17419CB37FEEE09D5F990173FDDB@TTNEXCHSRV1.hshhp.com> Yes I did. I'll check to see if they did. I just did a win98 install got the #name? error which is good in that at least I've got a platform to test against. Jim -----Original Message----- From: Gustav Brock [mailto:gustav at cactus.dk] Sent: Monday, March 01, 2004 10:34 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] A2K MDE Runtime Reference problem - URGENT Hi Jim Maybe your client installed it without Administrator rights - which you probably did? /gustav > I just installed on an XP system here and the app worked. Some read-only issues that I believe relate to security on the machine I was on but the date functions all worked. > I seem to recall some code in the archives that set references. I'll take a look there and see what comes up. > Thanks again, > Jim D. > -----Original Message----- > From: Gustav Brock [mailto:gustav at cactus.dk] > Sent: Monday, March 01, 2004 9:32 AM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: Re: [AccessD] A2K MDE Runtime Reference problem - URGENT > Hi Jim > The Date fields are the symptom only. > The cure is to locate and reestablish one or more missing reference. > Access will - and is quite good at it but not perfect - try to locate > any missing reference in the current environment, thus adjusting the > path for each of these references. > Maybe Access succeeded when the MDE was moved to your platform > (Win2000 and C:\WINNT) but failed when it moved "back" (Win 9x/XP and > C:\Windows) at the clients. > /gustav >> The real mystery is that we have not changed or added any references. It just seems the date fields that have the problem. -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From rgilimited at btconnect.com Mon Mar 1 10:57:51 2004 From: rgilimited at btconnect.com (Robin Lawrence) Date: Mon, 1 Mar 2004 16:57:51 -0000 Subject: [AccessD] File already in use In-Reply-To: <20040301162040.47144.qmail@web10504.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <000001c3ffae$55bd5650$5373a8c0@local> Gary, Sounds like a permissions error - check the users have full permissions on the database folder and the mdb file - also that the mdb has not been marked as read only HTH Rgds Robin Lawrence -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Gary Sent: 01 March 2004 16:21 To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: [AccessD] File already in use I know this has come up before but my search is not producing anything useful. Suddenly this morning our Access 97 users are locking each other out right and left. We are getting either Error 3045 or Error 3051, both stating basically that the file is opened exclusively by another user. Our network supervisor was working on the network all weekend and I don't know what he did to it. Any ideas where to look for an answer? ===== Gary "In ancient times they had no statistics so they had to fall back on lies." --Stephen Leacock __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Get better spam protection with Yahoo! Mail. http://antispam.yahoo.com/tools -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From Patricia.O'Connor at DFA.STATE.NY.US Mon Mar 1 11:34:21 2004 From: Patricia.O'Connor at DFA.STATE.NY.US (O'Connor, Patricia ) Date: Mon, 1 Mar 2004 12:34:21 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Union the transform queris ? Message-ID: Pretty sure you will have to make 2 queries for this when using ACCESS TABLES I created a dummy table and tried to do what you wanted in one and it was not working. SO I removed the transform and made just a plain select query which I used as input to the crosstab Somebody else may know of another way for ACCESS TABLES query 1 named qrytst1 in my test: SELECT tst1.ID, "Closed without Investigation" AS Status, PrelimClosedt as InvDt FROM TST1 WHERE (PrelimClosedt >= [Start_Date]) And (PrelimClosedt <= [End_Date]) and (TST1.PrelimClosedt Is Not Null AND TST1.InvestigationOpen Is Null) UNION all SELECT tst1.Id, "Pre Investigation Opened" AS Status, PrelimOpendt as InvDt FROM TST1 WHERE (PrelimOpendt >= [Start_Date]) And (PrelimOpendt <= [End_Date]) and (TST1.PrelimOpendt Is Not Null AND TST1.InvestigationOpen Is Null) query two named qrytst1_Crosstab in my test TRANSFORM Count([ID]) SELECT [Status], Count([ID]) AS [Total Of ID] FROM qrytst1 GROUP BY [Status] PIVOT Format([InvDt],"mmm") IN ("Jan","Feb","Mar","Apr","May","Jun","Jul","Aug","Sep","Oct","Nov","Dec"); HTH Patti > -----Original Message----- > From: Oleg_123 at xuppa.com [mailto:Oleg_123 at xuppa.com] > Sent: Monday, March 01, 2004 11:20 AM > To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com > Subject: [AccessD] Union the transform queris ? > > > hey group. > > Is it possible to perform an union query on 2 (or more) > transform queries > if the field names are he same ? > > TRANSFORM Count([Ron Data spr].[ID]) AS Total > SELECT "Closed without Investigation" AS Status > FROM [Ron Data spr] > WHERE ([Ron Data spr].[Preliminary Investigation Closed] >= [Forms]![Report Form]![Start_Date]) And ([Ron Data spr].[Preliminary Investigation Closed]<=[Forms]![Report Form]![End_Date]) and ([Preliminary Investigation closed] is not null and [Investigation Opened] is null) > GROUP BY "Closed without Investigation" > PIVOT Format([Preliminary Investigation Closed],"mmm") In > ("Jan","Feb","Mar","Apr","May","Jun","Jul","Aug","Sep","Oct"," > Nov","Dec") > > TRANSFORM Count([Ron Data spr].[ID]) AS Total > Union SELECT "Pre Investigation Opened" AS Status > FROM [Ron Data spr] > WHERE ([Ron Data spr].[Preliminary Investigation Opened] >= > [Forms]![Report Form]![Start_Date]) And ([Ron Data spr].[Preliminary > Investigation Opened]<=[Forms]![Report Form]![End_Date]) and > [Preliminary > Investigation Opened] is not null > GROUP BY "Pre Investigation Opened" > PIVOT Format([Preliminary Investigation Opened],"mmm") In > ("Jan","Feb","Mar","Apr","May","Jun","Jul","Aug","Sep","Oct"," > Nov","Dec"); > > > > ----------------------------------------- > Get Breaking News from CNN, ABC, NBC, CBS Now. > http://www.xuppa.com/news/?link=webmail > > > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > From gustav at cactus.dk Mon Mar 1 11:36:56 2004 From: gustav at cactus.dk (Gustav Brock) Date: Mon, 1 Mar 2004 18:36:56 +0100 Subject: [AccessD] A2K MDE Runtime Reference problem - URGENT In-Reply-To: <22F1CCD5171D17419CB37FEEE09D5F990173FDDB@TTNEXCHSRV1.hshhp.com> References: <22F1CCD5171D17419CB37FEEE09D5F990173FDDB@TTNEXCHSRV1.hshhp.com> Message-ID: <14034598219.20040301183656@cactus.dk> Hi Jim > Yes I did. I'll check to see if they did. I just did a win98 > install got the #name? error which is good in that at least I've got > a platform to test against. I forgot, at Win 98 it can't be an admin rights' issue. Then it's probably because a reference exists on Win 98 but of a lower version than that on your development machine. Access is not very keen to accept a lower version of a reference. Either install the newer version of the reference on Win 98 or compile your app with the lower version of the reference. /gustav > Maybe your client installed it without Administrator rights - which > you probably did? > /gustav >> I just installed on an XP system here and the app worked. Some read-only issues that I believe relate to security on the machine I was on but the date functions all worked. >> I seem to recall some code in the archives that set references. I'll take a look there and see what comes up. >> Thanks again, >> Jim D. >> -----Original Message----- >> From: Gustav Brock [mailto:gustav at cactus.dk] >> Sent: Monday, March 01, 2004 9:32 AM >> To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving >> Subject: Re: [AccessD] A2K MDE Runtime Reference problem - URGENT >> Hi Jim >> The Date fields are the symptom only. >> The cure is to locate and reestablish one or more missing reference. >> Access will - and is quite good at it but not perfect - try to locate >> any missing reference in the current environment, thus adjusting the >> path for each of these references. >> Maybe Access succeeded when the MDE was moved to your platform >> (Win2000 and C:\WINNT) but failed when it moved "back" (Win 9x/XP and >> C:\Windows) at the clients. >> /gustav >>> The real mystery is that we have not changed or added any references. It just seems the date fields that have the problem. From gjgiever at yahoo.com Mon Mar 1 12:18:57 2004 From: gjgiever at yahoo.com (Gary) Date: Mon, 1 Mar 2004 10:18:57 -0800 (PST) Subject: [AccessD] File already in use In-Reply-To: <000001c3ffae$55bd5650$5373a8c0@local> Message-ID: <20040301181857.68510.qmail@web10504.mail.yahoo.com> Thank you. We shall check that out. --- Robin Lawrence wrote: > Gary, > Sounds like a permissions error - check the users > have full permissions > on the database folder and the mdb file - also that > the mdb has not > been marked as read only > HTH > Rgds > Robin Lawrence > > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On > Behalf Of Gary > Sent: 01 March 2004 16:21 > To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com > Subject: [AccessD] File already in use > > > I know this has come up before but my search is not > producing anything useful. > > Suddenly this morning our Access 97 users are > locking > each other out right and left. We are getting > either > Error 3045 or Error 3051, both stating basically > that > the file is opened exclusively by another user. Our > network supervisor was working on the network all > weekend and I don't know what he did to it. Any > ideas > where to look for an answer? > > ===== > Gary > > "In ancient times they had no statistics so they had > to fall back on > lies." --Stephen Leacock > > __________________________________ > Do you Yahoo!? > Get better spam protection with Yahoo! Mail. > http://antispam.yahoo.com/tools > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com ===== Gary "In ancient times they had no statistics so they had to fall back on lies." --Stephen Leacock __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Get better spam protection with Yahoo! Mail. http://antispam.yahoo.com/tools From bchacc at san.rr.com Mon Mar 1 12:27:31 2004 From: bchacc at san.rr.com (Rocky Smolin - Beach Access Software) Date: Mon, 1 Mar 2004 10:27:31 -0800 Subject: [AccessD] A2K MDE Runtime Reference problem - URGENT References: <22F1CCD5171D17419CB37FEEE09D5F990173FDDB@TTNEXCHSRV1.hshhp.com> <14034598219.20040301183656@cactus.dk> Message-ID: <010401c3ffba$dc6eba70$6801a8c0@HAL9002> Jim: If they can load Access on that machine, you could send them a stripped down version of the app as an mdb and it should blow dumping them into the code window. From there you could walk them through displaying the references to see which one is broken and the do a search on it, copying it to the expected directory. Rocky ----- Original Message ----- From: "Gustav Brock" To: "Access Developers discussion and problem solving" Sent: Monday, March 01, 2004 9:36 AM Subject: Re: [AccessD] A2K MDE Runtime Reference problem - URGENT > Hi Jim > > > Yes I did. I'll check to see if they did. I just did a win98 > > install got the #name? error which is good in that at least I've got > > a platform to test against. > > I forgot, at Win 98 it can't be an admin rights' issue. > > Then it's probably because a reference exists on Win 98 but of a lower > version than that on your development machine. Access is not very keen > to accept a lower version of a reference. > Either install the newer version of the reference on Win 98 or compile > your app with the lower version of the reference. > > /gustav > > > > Maybe your client installed it without Administrator rights - which > > you probably did? > > > /gustav > > > >> I just installed on an XP system here and the app worked. Some read-only issues that I believe relate to security on the machine I was on but the date functions all worked. > > >> I seem to recall some code in the archives that set references. I'll take a look there and see what comes up. > > >> Thanks again, > > >> Jim D. > > >> -----Original Message----- > >> From: Gustav Brock [mailto:gustav at cactus.dk] > >> Sent: Monday, March 01, 2004 9:32 AM > >> To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > >> Subject: Re: [AccessD] A2K MDE Runtime Reference problem - URGENT > > > >> Hi Jim > > >> The Date fields are the symptom only. > >> The cure is to locate and reestablish one or more missing reference. > > >> Access will - and is quite good at it but not perfect - try to locate > >> any missing reference in the current environment, thus adjusting the > >> path for each of these references. > >> Maybe Access succeeded when the MDE was moved to your platform > >> (Win2000 and C:\WINNT) but failed when it moved "back" (Win 9x/XP and > >> C:\Windows) at the clients. > > >> /gustav > > >>> The real mystery is that we have not changed or added any references. It just seems the date fields that have the problem. > > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > From bchacc at san.rr.com Mon Mar 1 12:29:16 2004 From: bchacc at san.rr.com (Rocky Smolin - Beach Access Software) Date: Mon, 1 Mar 2004 10:29:16 -0800 Subject: [AccessD] Office 2003 Developer? References: <20040229141430.VELL1830.imf16aec.mail.bellsouth.net@SUSANONE> Message-ID: <012201c3ffbb$1b0474f0$6801a8c0@HAL9002> SO how does one package and deploy in AXP? What's the best solution? Rocky ----- Original Message ----- From: "Susan Harkins" To: "'Access Developers discussion and problem solving'" Sent: Sunday, February 29, 2004 6:14 AM Subject: RE: [AccessD] Office 2003 Developer? > Developer was dropped for 2003. > > Susan H. > > ...afaik "Microsoft Office Access 2003 Developer Extensions" is used to > create Access 2003 runtime packages and is a component of "Microsoft Visual > StudioR Tools for the Microsoft Office System" ...VS Tools supports C# and > VB in addition to VBA ...I've not seen a distinct ODE as in XP. > > > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > From stuart at pacific.net.hk Mon Mar 1 13:03:15 2004 From: stuart at pacific.net.hk (Stuart Sanders) Date: Tue, 2 Mar 2004 03:03:15 +0800 Subject: [AccessD] Office 2003 Developer? In-Reply-To: <012201c3ffbb$1b0474f0$6801a8c0@HAL9002> Message-ID: <02d301c3ffbf$da61e130$5c0840ca@nbbits01> AXP came with a developer version. Its A2003 that doesn't. I presume you are supposed to use .net now, but I haven't done that much research on it and don't have any current intention to. AXP is probably the last MS development environment I am going to use. Stuart > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of > Rocky Smolin - Beach Access Software > Sent: Tuesday, 2 March 2004 2:29 AM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: Re: [AccessD] Office 2003 Developer? > > > SO how does one package and deploy in AXP? What's the best solution? > > Rocky > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Susan Harkins" > To: "'Access Developers discussion and problem solving'" > > Sent: Sunday, February 29, 2004 6:14 AM > Subject: RE: [AccessD] Office 2003 Developer? > > > > Developer was dropped for 2003. > > > > Susan H. > > > > ...afaik "Microsoft Office Access 2003 Developer > Extensions" is used to > > create Access 2003 runtime packages and is a component of "Microsoft > Visual > > StudioR Tools for the Microsoft Office System" ...VS Tools > supports C# and > > VB in addition to VBA ...I've not seen a distinct ODE as in XP. > > > > > > -- > > _______________________________________________ > > AccessD mailing list > > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > From cfoust at infostatsystems.com Mon Mar 1 13:20:33 2004 From: cfoust at infostatsystems.com (Charlotte Foust) Date: Mon, 1 Mar 2004 11:20:33 -0800 Subject: [AccessD] Office 2003 Developer? Message-ID: Do you mean in 2003? You use the Visual Studio Tools for Office 2003, which includes the runtime file and distribution license for Access2003. The Access tools are part of the package. There is a packaging wizard in it, but I haven't looked at it. Charlotte Foust -----Original Message----- From: Rocky Smolin - Beach Access Software [mailto:bchacc at san.rr.com] Sent: Monday, March 01, 2004 10:29 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Office 2003 Developer? SO how does one package and deploy in AXP? What's the best solution? Rocky ----- Original Message ----- From: "Susan Harkins" To: "'Access Developers discussion and problem solving'" Sent: Sunday, February 29, 2004 6:14 AM Subject: RE: [AccessD] Office 2003 Developer? > Developer was dropped for 2003. > > Susan H. > > ...afaik "Microsoft Office Access 2003 Developer Extensions" is used > to create Access 2003 runtime packages and is a component of > "Microsoft Visual > StudioR Tools for the Microsoft Office System" ...VS Tools supports C# > and VB in addition to VBA ...I've not seen a distinct ODE as in XP. > > > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From jamie at kriegelpcsolutions.com Mon Mar 1 14:56:52 2004 From: jamie at kriegelpcsolutions.com (Jamie Kriegel) Date: Mon, 1 Mar 2004 14:56:52 -0600 Subject: [AccessD] Importing Question In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <200403012053.i21KrZM29174@databaseadvisors.com> Hopefully this is a simple question. I have an Access 2000 database that is split. I have another Access 2000 database that I'd like to combine with this one and am not sure the best method. I need the two combined so that I can use info from both in my reports. Would it be better to just link to the tables in the other database as all I really want is access to the tables for my reports and keep the databases separate? If I choose to just combine both databases, what is the best method, considering dbA is a split database and dbB is not. Thanks for any help! Jamie From Lambert.Heenan at AIG.com Mon Mar 1 15:36:01 2004 From: Lambert.Heenan at AIG.com (Heenan, Lambert) Date: Mon, 1 Mar 2004 16:36:01 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Importing Question Message-ID: <8B98F8EA48F8BA47A2F24E0D0AF40CF407AD7EFB@xlivmbx12.aig.com> I'd say for sure to just link to the other database. Lambert > -----Original Message----- > From: Jamie Kriegel [SMTP:jamie at kriegelpcsolutions.com] > Sent: Monday, March 01, 2004 3:57 PM > To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' > Subject: [AccessD] Importing Question > > Hopefully this is a simple question. > > I have an Access 2000 database that is split. I have another Access 2000 > database that I'd like to combine with this one and am not sure the best > method. I need the two combined so that I can use info from both in my > reports. Would it be better to just link to the tables in the other > database as all I really want is access to the tables for my reports and > keep the databases separate? If I choose to just combine both databases, > what is the best method, considering dbA is a split database and dbB is > not. > > Thanks for any help! > > Jamie > > > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From accessd at shaw.ca Mon Mar 1 19:19:13 2004 From: accessd at shaw.ca (Jim Lawrence (AccessD)) Date: Mon, 01 Mar 2004 17:19:13 -0800 Subject: [AccessD] Union the transform queris ? In-Reply-To: <11660.63.251.87.214.1078158016.squirrel@heck.bay9.com> Message-ID: Hi Oleg: With just a quick look the code below should work. This assumes that the data brought back from each TRANSFORM section is identical in field count and type. Just needs closed curved brackets around each section and appropriate Union type clause in between. HTH Jim ... (TRANSFORM Count([Ron Data spr].[ID]) AS Total SELECT "Closed without Investigation" AS Status FROM [Ron Data spr] WHERE ([Ron Data spr].[Preliminary Investigation Closed] >= [Forms]![Report Form]![Start_Date]) And ([Ron Data spr].[Preliminary Investigation Closed]<=[Forms]![Report Form]![End_Date]) and ([Preliminary Investigation closed] is not null and [Investigation Opened] is null) GROUP BY "Closed without Investigation" PIVOT Format([Preliminary Investigation Closed],"mmm") In ("Jan","Feb","Mar","Apr","May","Jun","Jul","Aug","Sep","Oct","Nov","Dec")) UNION ALL (TRANSFORM Count([Ron Data spr].[ID]) AS Total Union SELECT "Pre Investigation Opened" AS Status FROM [Ron Data spr] WHERE ([Ron Data spr].[Preliminary Investigation Opened] >= [Forms]![Report Form]![Start_Date]) And ([Ron Data spr].[Preliminary Investigation Opened]<=[Forms]![Report Form]![End_Date]) and [Preliminary Investigation Opened] is not null GROUP BY "Pre Investigation Opened" PIVOT Format([Preliminary Investigation Opened],"mmm") In ("Jan","Feb","Mar","Apr","May","Jun","Jul","Aug","Sep","Oct","Nov","Dec")) ... From Jeff at OUTBAKTech.com Mon Mar 1 22:57:24 2004 From: Jeff at OUTBAKTech.com (Jeff Barrows) Date: Mon, 1 Mar 2004 22:57:24 -0600 Subject: [AccessD] Church Database Message-ID: <8DA8776D2F418E46A2A464AC6CE6305092B7@outbaksrv1.outbaktech.com> Hello Group!!! Before I get too involved, I seem to recall someone saying something a while ago about doing some software for a church. If anyone has such an app and are willing to consider sharing it, could you drop me a line? Jeff Barrows Outbak Technologies, LLC Racine, WI Phone: (262) 634-0653 Mailto: jeff_developer at hotmail.com www.outbaktech.com From bchacc at san.rr.com Mon Mar 1 23:21:40 2004 From: bchacc at san.rr.com (Rocky Smolin - Beach Access Software) Date: Mon, 1 Mar 2004 21:21:40 -0800 Subject: [AccessD] Church Database References: <8DA8776D2F418E46A2A464AC6CE6305092B7@outbaksrv1.outbaktech.com> Message-ID: <02fd01c40016$3e90e420$6801a8c0@HAL9002> I once did a communion wafer distribution system for the Carmelite nuns on San Diego (a real cloistered monastery in the middle of the city), called CABS (Carmelite Altar Bread System). Very interesting time. I don't think that's what you're after but that's as close as I got. Rocky ----- Original Message ----- From: "Jeff Barrows" To: "AccessD" Sent: Monday, March 01, 2004 8:57 PM Subject: [AccessD] Church Database Hello Group!!! Before I get too involved, I seem to recall someone saying something a while ago about doing some software for a church. If anyone has such an app and are willing to consider sharing it, could you drop me a line? Jeff Barrows Outbak Technologies, LLC Racine, WI Phone: (262) 634-0653 Mailto: jeff_developer at hotmail.com www.outbaktech.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From Jeff at OUTBAKTech.com Mon Mar 1 23:42:57 2004 From: Jeff at OUTBAKTech.com (Jeff Barrows) Date: Mon, 1 Mar 2004 23:42:57 -0600 Subject: [AccessD] Church Database Message-ID: <8DA8776D2F418E46A2A464AC6CE6305092B9@outbaksrv1.outbaktech.com> Thanks, but that is not what I am looking for. What I am doing is a Membership and Donation app. Jeff Barrows Outbak Technologies, LLC Racine, WI Phone: (262) 634-0653 Mailto: jeff_developer at hotmail.com www.outbaktech.com -----Original Message----- From: Rocky Smolin - Beach Access Software [mailto:bchacc at san.rr.com] Sent: Monday, March 01, 2004 11:22 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Church Database I once did a communion wafer distribution system for the Carmelite nuns on San Diego (a real cloistered monastery in the middle of the city), called CABS (Carmelite Altar Bread System). Very interesting time. I don't think that's what you're after but that's as close as I got. Rocky ----- Original Message ----- From: "Jeff Barrows" To: "AccessD" Sent: Monday, March 01, 2004 8:57 PM Subject: [AccessD] Church Database Hello Group!!! Before I get too involved, I seem to recall someone saying something a while ago about doing some software for a church. If anyone has such an app and are willing to consider sharing it, could you drop me a line? Jeff Barrows Outbak Technologies, LLC Racine, WI Phone: (262) 634-0653 Mailto: jeff_developer at hotmail.com www.outbaktech.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From john at winhaven.net Mon Mar 1 23:56:41 2004 From: john at winhaven.net (John Bartow) Date: Mon, 1 Mar 2004 23:56:41 -0600 Subject: [AccessD] Church Database In-Reply-To: <8DA8776D2F418E46A2A464AC6CE6305092B7@outbaksrv1.outbaktech.com> Message-ID: Hi Jeff, I asked about the issue here a few months ago. I got one response that indicated they had worked on one. I followed up a couple of times with that individual and never got any further responses. There are a couple of established companies that write church apps. PDS and ACS are the two I'm somewhat familiar with. If you're interested in any info for those feel free to contact me. John R. Bartow WinHaven LLC PO Box 130 Winneconne, WI 54986 920-582-7574 john at winhaven.net -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Jeff Barrows Sent: Monday, March 01, 2004 10:57 PM To: AccessD Subject: [AccessD] Church Database Hello Group!!! Before I get too involved, I seem to recall someone saying something a while ago about doing some software for a church. If anyone has such an app and are willing to consider sharing it, could you drop me a line? Jeff Barrows Outbak Technologies, LLC Racine, WI Phone: (262) 634-0653 Mailto: jeff_developer at hotmail.com www.outbaktech.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From handyman at actcom.co.il Tue Mar 2 00:17:11 2004 From: handyman at actcom.co.il (handyman at actcom.co.il) Date: Tue, 02 Mar 2004 08:17:11 +0200 Subject: [AccessD] Church Database In-Reply-To: <8DA8776D2F418E46A2A464AC6CE6305092B7@outbaksrv1.outbaktech .com> Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20040302081631.02ededc8@pop5.actcom.net.il> check this url http://users.adelphia.net/~nchristo23/index.html At 10:57 PM, 3/1/2004 -0600, you wrote: >Hello Group!!! > >Before I get too involved, I seem to recall someone saying something a >while ago about doing some software for a church. If anyone has such an >app and are willing to consider sharing it, could you drop me a line? > >Jeff Barrows > >Outbak Technologies, LLC >Racine, WI >Phone: (262) 634-0653 >Mailto: jeff_developer at hotmail.com >www.outbaktech.com > >-- >_______________________________________________ >AccessD mailing list >AccessD at databaseadvisors.com >http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd >Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com Gershon Markowitz mailto:Handyman at actcom.co.il http://www.yadchaimtzvi.org From accessd667 at yahoo.com Tue Mar 2 01:05:07 2004 From: accessd667 at yahoo.com (S D) Date: Mon, 1 Mar 2004 23:05:07 -0800 (PST) Subject: [AccessD] Create scripts: CreateTable? Message-ID: <20040302070507.73265.qmail@web61106.mail.yahoo.com> Hi group, I need to create about 15 new, very large (25-42 fields) tables. Is it somehow possible to create scripts that generate these tables to migrate these tables to production? Like in SQL-Server? My suggestion was create the tables in Developmennt. Import the tables in the Test environment and then import them into Production. Answer: NO. Why? Just NO. Create scripts that generate the objects and we (third party) run the script. Is there something like it? regards, Sander --------------------------------- Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Search - Find what you?re looking for faster. From deanellis at iprimus.com.au Tue Mar 2 06:26:38 2004 From: deanellis at iprimus.com.au (Dean Ellis) Date: Tue, 2 Mar 2004 22:56:38 +1030 (Cen. Australia Daylight Time) Subject: [AccessD] SQL Error Message-ID: <40447D7E.000005.91631@jedel> Hi All, Can anybody help with the following line of Code. I created the SQL part directly from the query window but I keep getting the error "Expected end of statement at the "WO1" area Me.Combo6.RowSource = "SELECT DISTINCTROW Member.[Regt Number], Member Surname, Member.Rank FROM Member WHERE ((Not(Member.Rank)= "WO1")) ORDER BY Member.Surname;" Basically its a dropdown box that needs to leave out certain record depending on the members rank Any thoughts From R.Griffiths at bury.gov.uk Tue Mar 2 06:37:29 2004 From: R.Griffiths at bury.gov.uk (Griffiths, Richard) Date: Tue, 2 Mar 2004 12:37:29 -0000 Subject: [AccessD] SQL Error Message-ID: Dean Try single quotes around W01 e.g. 'W01' Richard > -----Original Message----- > From: Dean Ellis [SMTP:deanellis at iprimus.com.au] > Sent: 02 March 2004 12:27 > To: AccessD > Subject: [AccessD] SQL Error > > Hi All, > > > > Can anybody help with the following line of Code. I created the SQL part > directly from the query window but I keep getting the error "Expected end > of > statement at the "WO1" area > > > > Me.Combo6.RowSource = "SELECT DISTINCTROW Member.[Regt Number], Member > Surname, Member.Rank FROM Member WHERE ((Not(Member.Rank)= "WO1")) ORDER > BY > Member.Surname;" > > > > > > Basically its a dropdown box that needs to leave out certain record > depending on the members rank > > > > Any thoughts > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com Tue Mar 2 06:43:07 2004 From: jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com (John W. Colby) Date: Tue, 2 Mar 2004 07:43:07 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] word automation not printing Message-ID: Folks, I am using the following code to print an existing document using word automation. If I leave out the msgbox statement the document doesn't print. It's almost as if the close happens before the print manages to get the document out of word and into the print queue. Has anyone seen this? Any suggestions? The "Press any key" solution is unprofessional to say the least. Function PrintWordDoc(strFilePath As String, strFileName As String, intCnt As Integer) As Boolean On Error GoTo Err_PrintWordDoc Dim AppWord As Word.Application Dim lDoc As Word.Document Set AppWord = CreateObject("Word.Application") With AppWord .Visible = True .Documents.Open (strFilePath & strFileName) Set lDoc = .Documents(strFileName) lDoc.PrintOut , , , , , , , intCnt msgbox "Press any key to continue" .Quit savechanges:=False End With PrintWordDoc = True Exit_PrintWordDoc: On Error Resume Next Set lDoc = Nothing Set AppWord = Nothing Exit Function Err_PrintWordDoc: MsgBox Err.Description, , "Error in Sub basMailMerge.PrintWordDoc" Resume Exit_PrintWordDoc Resume 0 '.FOR TROUBLESHOOTING End Function John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com From accessd667 at yahoo.com Tue Mar 2 06:53:01 2004 From: accessd667 at yahoo.com (S D) Date: Tue, 2 Mar 2004 04:53:01 -0800 (PST) Subject: [AccessD] Add tab control to tab control? Message-ID: <20040302125301.84725.qmail@web61105.mail.yahoo.com> Hi group I want to place a tab control on a tab control. Is this possible? eg: "parent tab control" has 2 pages called: parentpage1 and parentpage2. I want to create another tab control on parentpage2. TIA Regards, Sander --------------------------------- Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Search - Find what you?re looking for faster. From JRojas at tnco-inc.com Tue Mar 2 07:08:03 2004 From: JRojas at tnco-inc.com (Joe Rojas) Date: Tue, 2 Mar 2004 08:08:03 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] SQL Error Message-ID: <806536912C472E4A9D6515DF2E57261E2396F9@mercury.tnco-inc.com> Wouldn't the WHERE clause read as: WHERE (Not(Member.Rank = "WO1")) JR -----Original Message----- From: Dean Ellis [mailto:deanellis at iprimus.com.au] Sent: Tuesday, March 02, 2004 7:27 AM To: AccessD Subject: [AccessD] SQL Error Hi All, Can anybody help with the following line of Code. I created the SQL part directly from the query window but I keep getting the error "Expected end of statement at the "WO1" area Me.Combo6.RowSource = "SELECT DISTINCTROW Member.[Regt Number], Member Surname, Member.Rank FROM Member WHERE ((Not(Member.Rank)= "WO1")) ORDER BY Member.Surname;" Basically its a dropdown box that needs to leave out certain record depending on the members rank Any thoughts -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com This electronic transmission is strictly confidential to TNCO, Inc. and intended solely for the addressee. It may contain information which is covered by legal, professional, or other privileges. If you are not the intended addressee, or someone authorized by the intended addressee to receive transmissions on behalf of the addressee, you must not retain, disclose in any form, copy, or take any action in reliance on this transmission. If you have received this transmission in error, please notify the sender as soon as possible and destroy this message. While TNCO, Inc. uses virus protection, the recipient should check this email and any attachments for the presence of viruses. TNCO, Inc. accepts no liability for any damage caused by any virus transmitted by this email. From accessd667 at yahoo.com Tue Mar 2 07:20:46 2004 From: accessd667 at yahoo.com (S D) Date: Tue, 2 Mar 2004 05:20:46 -0800 (PST) Subject: [AccessD] word automation not printing In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <20040302132046.53697.qmail@web61104.mail.yahoo.com> you could try a timer event...wait a couple of seconds before quiting... Isn't it possible to use a doevents thingy? HTH Sander "John W. Colby" wrote: Folks, I am using the following code to print an existing document using word automation. If I leave out the msgbox statement the document doesn't print. It's almost as if the close happens before the print manages to get the document out of word and into the print queue. Has anyone seen this? Any suggestions? The "Press any key" solution is unprofessional to say the least. Function PrintWordDoc(strFilePath As String, strFileName As String, intCnt As Integer) As Boolean On Error GoTo Err_PrintWordDoc Dim AppWord As Word.Application Dim lDoc As Word.Document Set AppWord = CreateObject("Word.Application") With AppWord .Visible = True .Documents.Open (strFilePath & strFileName) Set lDoc = .Documents(strFileName) lDoc.PrintOut , , , , , , , intCnt msgbox "Press any key to continue" .Quit savechanges:=False End With PrintWordDoc = True Exit_PrintWordDoc: On Error Resume Next Set lDoc = Nothing Set AppWord = Nothing Exit Function Err_PrintWordDoc: MsgBox Err.Description, , "Error in Sub basMailMerge.PrintWordDoc" Resume Exit_PrintWordDoc Resume 0 '.FOR TROUBLESHOOTING End Function John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com --------------------------------- Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Search - Find what you?re looking for faster. From paul.hartland at fsmail.net Tue Mar 2 07:27:36 2004 From: paul.hartland at fsmail.net (paul.hartland at fsmail.net) Date: Tue, 2 Mar 2004 14:27:36 +0100 (CET) Subject: [AccessD] Add tab control to tab control? Message-ID: <12741325.1078234056352.JavaMail.www@wwinf3004> Sander, Unless anyone comes up with a better solution, the only way I know how to do this is to put your 2nd tab control inside the first and make it invisible, then when the 2nd tab is clicked make tab control 2 visible, when they click off it make it invisible again etc. If you get a better solution that I don't see on the list, I would like to know how it is done. Paul Message date : Mar 02 2004, 01:17 PM >From : "S D" To : "accessd" Copy to : Subject : [AccessD] Add tab control to tab control? Hi group I want to place a tab control on a tab control. Is this possible? eg: "parent tab control" has 2 pages called: parentpage1 and parentpage2. I want to create another tab control on parentpage2. TIA Regards, Sander --------------------------------- Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Search - Find what you?re looking for faster. -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com Freeserve AnyTime - HALF PRICE for the first 3 months - Save ?7.50 a month www.freeserve.com/anytime From jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com Tue Mar 2 07:33:15 2004 From: jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com (John W. Colby) Date: Tue, 2 Mar 2004 08:33:15 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Add tab control to tab control? In-Reply-To: <20040302125301.84725.qmail@web61105.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: Yes, that is possible. Just select tab 2 and drag and drop a new tab control on it. John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of S D Sent: Tuesday, March 02, 2004 7:53 AM To: accessd Subject: [AccessD] Add tab control to tab control? Hi group I want to place a tab control on a tab control. Is this possible? eg: "parent tab control" has 2 pages called: parentpage1 and parentpage2. I want to create another tab control on parentpage2. TIA Regards, Sander --------------------------------- Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Search - Find what youre looking for faster. -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com Tue Mar 2 07:33:15 2004 From: jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com (John W. Colby) Date: Tue, 2 Mar 2004 08:33:15 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] word automation not printing In-Reply-To: <20040302132046.53697.qmail@web61104.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: A DoEvents thingie? Getting kinda technical aren't you? ;-) John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of S D Sent: Tuesday, March 02, 2004 8:21 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] word automation not printing you could try a timer event...wait a couple of seconds before quiting... Isn't it possible to use a doevents thingy? HTH Sander "John W. Colby" wrote: Folks, I am using the following code to print an existing document using word automation. If I leave out the msgbox statement the document doesn't print. It's almost as if the close happens before the print manages to get the document out of word and into the print queue. Has anyone seen this? Any suggestions? The "Press any key" solution is unprofessional to say the least. Function PrintWordDoc(strFilePath As String, strFileName As String, intCnt As Integer) As Boolean On Error GoTo Err_PrintWordDoc Dim AppWord As Word.Application Dim lDoc As Word.Document Set AppWord = CreateObject("Word.Application") With AppWord .Visible = True .Documents.Open (strFilePath & strFileName) Set lDoc = .Documents(strFileName) lDoc.PrintOut , , , , , , , intCnt msgbox "Press any key to continue" .Quit savechanges:=False End With PrintWordDoc = True Exit_PrintWordDoc: On Error Resume Next Set lDoc = Nothing Set AppWord = Nothing Exit Function Err_PrintWordDoc: MsgBox Err.Description, , "Error in Sub basMailMerge.PrintWordDoc" Resume Exit_PrintWordDoc Resume 0 '.FOR TROUBLESHOOTING End Function John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com --------------------------------- Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Search - Find what youre looking for faster. -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From Mark.Mitsules at ngc.com Tue Mar 2 07:29:22 2004 From: Mark.Mitsules at ngc.com (Mitsules, Mark S. (Newport News)) Date: Tue, 2 Mar 2004 08:29:22 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Add tab control to tab control? Message-ID: Yes, this is possible...in a subform. I have nested tab controls 3 levels deep. And, a text box control on the third level tab control would still be addressed: [Forms]![frmMain]![sfrmMain]![ssfrmMain]![txtControl] ...no reference to the tab control is necessary. Mark -----Original Message----- From: S D [mailto:accessd667 at yahoo.com] Sent: Tuesday, March 02, 2004 7:53 AM To: accessd Subject: [AccessD] Add tab control to tab control? Hi group I want to place a tab control on a tab control. Is this possible? eg: "parent tab control" has 2 pages called: parentpage1 and parentpage2. I want to create another tab control on parentpage2. TIA Regards, Sander --------------------------------- Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Search - Find what you're looking for faster. -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From Mark.Mitsules at ngc.com Tue Mar 2 07:41:10 2004 From: Mark.Mitsules at ngc.com (Mitsules, Mark S. (Newport News)) Date: Tue, 2 Mar 2004 08:41:10 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] word automation not printing Message-ID: Gustav set me on the right track a few years ago with this problem. ...and I quote "Printing is VERY much faster if background printing is off." See example courtesy of Gustav:) Mark Function PrintDoc(ByVal strFileName As String) As Boolean ' Print Word document from within Access. ' 2000-05-27. Gustav Brock. Cactus Data ApS. ' Example: ? WordDocPrint("C:\Temp\Products.doc") Dim appWord As Word.Application Dim booPrintBackground As Boolean Dim WordDocPrint As Boolean Set appWord = New Word.Application 'Debug.Print "- activated" With appWord .Documents.Open strFileName 'Debug.Print "- opened" ' Store background printing option. booPrintBackground = .Options.PrintBackground If booPrintBackground = True Then ' Printing is VERY much faster if background printing is off. .Options.PrintBackground = False End If .ActiveDocument.PrintOut ' Not needed if background printing option is off. While .BackgroundPrintingStatus > 0 'Debug.Print "- printing" StatusBar = .BackgroundPrintingStatus & " print jobs are queued up" DoEvents Wend ' ----------------------------------------------- 'Debug.Print "- printed" ' Restore background printing option. If booPrintBackground = True Then .Options.PrintBackground = True End If .ActiveDocument.Close 'Debug.Print "- closed" .Quit 'Debug.Print "- quit" End With Set appWord = Nothing WordDocPrint = True End Function -----Original Message----- From: John W. Colby [mailto:jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com] Sent: Tuesday, March 02, 2004 8:33 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] word automation not printing A DoEvents thingie? Getting kinda technical aren't you? ;-) John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of S D Sent: Tuesday, March 02, 2004 8:21 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] word automation not printing you could try a timer event...wait a couple of seconds before quiting... Isn't it possible to use a doevents thingy? HTH Sander "John W. Colby" wrote: Folks, I am using the following code to print an existing document using word automation. If I leave out the msgbox statement the document doesn't print. It's almost as if the close happens before the print manages to get the document out of word and into the print queue. Has anyone seen this? Any suggestions? The "Press any key" solution is unprofessional to say the least. Function PrintWordDoc(strFilePath As String, strFileName As String, intCnt As Integer) As Boolean On Error GoTo Err_PrintWordDoc Dim AppWord As Word.Application Dim lDoc As Word.Document Set AppWord = CreateObject("Word.Application") With AppWord .Visible = True .Documents.Open (strFilePath & strFileName) Set lDoc = .Documents(strFileName) lDoc.PrintOut , , , , , , , intCnt msgbox "Press any key to continue" .Quit savechanges:=False End With PrintWordDoc = True Exit_PrintWordDoc: On Error Resume Next Set lDoc = Nothing Set AppWord = Nothing Exit Function Err_PrintWordDoc: MsgBox Err.Description, , "Error in Sub basMailMerge.PrintWordDoc" Resume Exit_PrintWordDoc Resume 0 '.FOR TROUBLESHOOTING End Function John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com --------------------------------- Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Search - Find what youre looking for faster. -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From bheid at appdevgrp.com Tue Mar 2 07:52:18 2004 From: bheid at appdevgrp.com (Bobby Heid) Date: Tue, 2 Mar 2004 08:52:18 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Archives - no scroll bar In-Reply-To: <916187228923D311A6FE00A0CC3FAA307B76AF@ADGSERVER> Message-ID: <916187228923D311A6FE00A0CC3FAA305BB2AF@ADGSERVER> Hey all, I was searching the archives for something and it had a lot of hits. But since there was no scroll bar, I had to press the tab key to move to each entry. I could not page down or use the mouse wheel either. This is in IE 6.0.28, windows 2k. Is this by design? Thanks, Bobby From tinanfields at torchlake.com Tue Mar 2 07:56:39 2004 From: tinanfields at torchlake.com (Tina Norris Fields) Date: Tue, 02 Mar 2004 08:56:39 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Church Database References: <8DA8776D2F418E46A2A464AC6CE6305092B7@outbaksrv1.outbaktech.com> Message-ID: <40449297.8020101@torchlake.com> Hi Jeff, We considered creating our own database app for our church because we wer unsatisfied with the one we had purchased. However, over time that product has been improved considerably. We are still using it. It is called PowerChurch+8. It is a FoxPro-based app. The tables are easily imported into Access. Now, any time I want some special report that PowerChurch+8 doesn't offer, I just grab the information I want and use Access to manipulate it. HTH Tina Jeff Barrows wrote: >Hello Group!!! > >Before I get too involved, I seem to recall someone saying something a >while ago about doing some software for a church. If anyone has such an >app and are willing to consider sharing it, could you drop me a line? > >Jeff Barrows > >Outbak Technologies, LLC >Racine, WI >Phone: (262) 634-0653 >Mailto: jeff_developer at hotmail.com >www.outbaktech.com > > > From JohnSkolits at CorporateDataDesign.com Tue Mar 2 08:33:14 2004 From: JohnSkolits at CorporateDataDesign.com (John Skolits) Date: Tue, 2 Mar 2004 09:33:14 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Looking for Calander App that would interact with Access In-Reply-To: <40449297.8020101@torchlake.com> Message-ID: <006e01c40063$4bdc0810$0f01a8c0@cddserver2> Anyone see a good Calendar App that allows people to schedule information for a particular customer and link that customer to an Access database. In this way, a dispatcher can use the calendar to schedule appointments and then print customer database info for a repair person before they go to the customers location. Thanks, John Skolits From gustav at cactus.dk Tue Mar 2 08:33:11 2004 From: gustav at cactus.dk (Gustav Brock) Date: Tue, 2 Mar 2004 15:33:11 +0100 Subject: [AccessD] word automation not printing In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <1175921094.20040302153311@cactus.dk> Hi John You may choose to print the document in the background: Function WordDocPrint( _ ByVal strFilename As String, _ Optional ByVal booPrintBackGround As Boolean = False) _ As Boolean ' Print Word document from within Access. ' 2000-05-27. Gustav Brock. Cactus Data ApS. ' 2000-09-10. Modified with option for background printing. ' Example: ? WordDocPrint("C:\Programmer\Microsoft Office 97\Office\Eksempler\produkter.doc") Dim appWord As Word.Application Dim booSuccess As Boolean Set appWord = New Word.Application Debug.Print "- activated" With appWord If Len(Dir(strFilename)) > 0 Then ' Open document strFilename read-only. .Documents.Open strFilename, , True Debug.Print "- opened" .ActiveDocument.PrintOut booPrintBackGround While .BackgroundPrintingStatus > 0 Debug.Print "- printing" DoEvents Wend Debug.Print "- printed" .ActiveDocument.Close Debug.Print "- closed" booSuccess = True End If .Quit Debug.Print "- quit" End With Set appWord = Nothing WordDocPrint = booSuccess End Function /gustav > I am using the following code to print an existing document using word > automation. If I leave out the msgbox statement the document doesn't print. > It's almost as if the close happens before the print manages to get the > document out of word and into the print queue. Has anyone seen this? Any > suggestions? The "Press any key" solution is unprofessional to say the > least. > Function PrintWordDoc(strFilePath As String, strFileName As String, intCnt > As Integer) As Boolean > On Error GoTo Err_PrintWordDoc > Dim AppWord As Word.Application > Dim lDoc As Word.Document > Set AppWord = CreateObject("Word.Application") > With AppWord > .Visible = True > .Documents.Open (strFilePath & strFileName) > Set lDoc = .Documents(strFileName) > lDoc.PrintOut , , , , , , , intCnt > msgbox "Press any key to continue" > .Quit savechanges:=False > End With > PrintWordDoc = True > Exit_PrintWordDoc: > On Error Resume Next > Set lDoc = Nothing > Set AppWord = Nothing > Exit Function > Err_PrintWordDoc: > MsgBox Err.Description, , "Error in Sub basMailMerge.PrintWordDoc" > Resume Exit_PrintWordDoc > Resume 0 '.FOR TROUBLESHOOTING > End Function From chizotz at charter.net Tue Mar 2 08:43:13 2004 From: chizotz at charter.net (chizotz at charter.net) Date: Tue, 2 Mar 2004 8:43:13 -0600 Subject: [AccessD] Acc97: report groups not staying together Message-ID: <200403021443.i22EhD5L083178@mxsf09.cluster1.charter.net> Hi all, I have a report that has a group with group totals in the group footer. I can't seem to keep the groups from breaking over to a new page. What I want is for the group totals to always print on the same page as the last line of the details for that iteration of the group. Seems like it should be simple enough, but playing with the "keep together" settings doesn't seem to have any effect. I think I remember that there was a trick to this, but I don't recall what it is. Any suggestions appreciated. Ron From Mark.Mitsules at ngc.com Tue Mar 2 08:38:51 2004 From: Mark.Mitsules at ngc.com (Mitsules, Mark S. (Newport News)) Date: Tue, 2 Mar 2004 09:38:51 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] word automation not printing Message-ID: ...hmmm:( Are my posts not making it to the list? I posted a similar example from you over an hour ago;) Mark -----Original Message----- From: Gustav Brock [mailto:gustav at cactus.dk] Sent: Tuesday, March 02, 2004 9:33 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] word automation not printing Hi John You may choose to print the document in the background: Function WordDocPrint( _ ByVal strFilename As String, _ Optional ByVal booPrintBackGround As Boolean = False) _ As Boolean ' Print Word document from within Access. ' 2000-05-27. Gustav Brock. Cactus Data ApS. ' 2000-09-10. Modified with option for background printing. ' Example: ? WordDocPrint("C:\Programmer\Microsoft Office 97\Office\Eksempler\produkter.doc") Dim appWord As Word.Application Dim booSuccess As Boolean Set appWord = New Word.Application Debug.Print "- activated" With appWord If Len(Dir(strFilename)) > 0 Then ' Open document strFilename read-only. .Documents.Open strFilename, , True Debug.Print "- opened" .ActiveDocument.PrintOut booPrintBackGround While .BackgroundPrintingStatus > 0 Debug.Print "- printing" DoEvents Wend Debug.Print "- printed" .ActiveDocument.Close Debug.Print "- closed" booSuccess = True End If .Quit Debug.Print "- quit" End With Set appWord = Nothing WordDocPrint = booSuccess End Function /gustav > I am using the following code to print an existing document using word > automation. If I leave out the msgbox statement the document doesn't > print. It's almost as if the close happens before the print manages to > get the document out of word and into the print queue. Has anyone > seen this? Any suggestions? The "Press any key" solution is > unprofessional to say the least. > Function PrintWordDoc(strFilePath As String, strFileName As String, > intCnt As Integer) As Boolean On Error GoTo Err_PrintWordDoc > Dim AppWord As Word.Application > Dim lDoc As Word.Document > Set AppWord = CreateObject("Word.Application") > With AppWord > .Visible = True > .Documents.Open (strFilePath & strFileName) > Set lDoc = .Documents(strFileName) > lDoc.PrintOut , , , , , , , intCnt > msgbox "Press any key to continue" > .Quit savechanges:=False > End With > PrintWordDoc = True > Exit_PrintWordDoc: > On Error Resume Next > Set lDoc = Nothing > Set AppWord = Nothing > Exit Function > Err_PrintWordDoc: > MsgBox Err.Description, , "Error in Sub basMailMerge.PrintWordDoc" > Resume Exit_PrintWordDoc > Resume 0 '.FOR TROUBLESHOOTING > End Function -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From jdolby at GATELY.COM Tue Mar 2 08:49:32 2004 From: jdolby at GATELY.COM (Jack Dolby) Date: Tue, 2 Mar 2004 09:49:32 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] word automation not printing Message-ID: <84C3AB1A3A24D311BC9100500410A17E0188D85C@GATELY01> Made it here, Mark... but I'm just across town. Jack Dolby Gately Communication Company -----Original Message----- From: Mitsules, Mark S. (Newport News) [mailto:Mark.Mitsules at ngc.com] Sent: Tuesday, March 02, 2004 9:39 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: [AccessD] word automation not printing ...hmmm:( Are my posts not making it to the list? I posted a similar example from you over an hour ago;) Mark -----Original Message----- From: Gustav Brock [mailto:gustav at cactus.dk] Sent: Tuesday, March 02, 2004 9:33 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] word automation not printing Hi John You may choose to print the document in the background: Function WordDocPrint( _ ByVal strFilename As String, _ Optional ByVal booPrintBackGround As Boolean = False) _ As Boolean ' Print Word document from within Access. ' 2000-05-27. Gustav Brock. Cactus Data ApS. ' 2000-09-10. Modified with option for background printing. ' Example: ? WordDocPrint("C:\Programmer\Microsoft Office 97\Office\Eksempler\produkter.doc") Dim appWord As Word.Application Dim booSuccess As Boolean Set appWord = New Word.Application Debug.Print "- activated" With appWord If Len(Dir(strFilename)) > 0 Then ' Open document strFilename read-only. .Documents.Open strFilename, , True Debug.Print "- opened" .ActiveDocument.PrintOut booPrintBackGround While .BackgroundPrintingStatus > 0 Debug.Print "- printing" DoEvents Wend Debug.Print "- printed" .ActiveDocument.Close Debug.Print "- closed" booSuccess = True End If .Quit Debug.Print "- quit" End With Set appWord = Nothing WordDocPrint = booSuccess End Function /gustav > I am using the following code to print an existing document using word > automation. If I leave out the msgbox statement the document doesn't > print. It's almost as if the close happens before the print manages to > get the document out of word and into the print queue. Has anyone > seen this? Any suggestions? The "Press any key" solution is > unprofessional to say the least. > Function PrintWordDoc(strFilePath As String, strFileName As String, > intCnt As Integer) As Boolean On Error GoTo Err_PrintWordDoc > Dim AppWord As Word.Application > Dim lDoc As Word.Document > Set AppWord = CreateObject("Word.Application") > With AppWord > .Visible = True > .Documents.Open (strFilePath & strFileName) > Set lDoc = .Documents(strFileName) > lDoc.PrintOut , , , , , , , intCnt > msgbox "Press any key to continue" > .Quit savechanges:=False > End With > PrintWordDoc = True > Exit_PrintWordDoc: > On Error Resume Next > Set lDoc = Nothing > Set AppWord = Nothing > Exit Function > Err_PrintWordDoc: > MsgBox Err.Description, , "Error in Sub basMailMerge.PrintWordDoc" > Resume Exit_PrintWordDoc > Resume 0 '.FOR TROUBLESHOOTING > End Function -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From gustav at cactus.dk Tue Mar 2 09:01:16 2004 From: gustav at cactus.dk (Gustav Brock) Date: Tue, 2 Mar 2004 16:01:16 +0100 Subject: [AccessD] word automation not printing In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <767605826.20040302160116@cactus.dk> Hi Mark This did but else ... /gustav > ...hmmm:( Are my posts not making it to the list? I posted a similar > example from you over an hour ago;) > Mark From Jdemarco at hudsonhealthplan.org Tue Mar 2 09:01:16 2004 From: Jdemarco at hudsonhealthplan.org (Jim DeMarco) Date: Tue, 2 Mar 2004 10:01:16 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] A2K MDE Runtime Reference problem - URGENT Message-ID: <22F1CCD5171D17419CB37FEEE09D5F990173FDED@TTNEXCHSRV1.hshhp.com> Rocky, They don't have the correct version of Access installed (at the win98 location). I found what I think is the offending reference (to a file named cnfgprt.ocx). We're going to remove it then recompile the app and see if it runs. I think that ocx is some NT service pack file but why it's referenced here is a mystery. Jim DeMarco -----Original Message----- From: Rocky Smolin - Beach Access Software [mailto:bchacc at san.rr.com] Sent: Monday, March 01, 2004 1:28 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] A2K MDE Runtime Reference problem - URGENT Jim: If they can load Access on that machine, you could send them a stripped down version of the app as an mdb and it should blow dumping them into the code window. From there you could walk them through displaying the references to see which one is broken and the do a search on it, copying it to the expected directory. Rocky ----- Original Message ----- From: "Gustav Brock" To: "Access Developers discussion and problem solving" Sent: Monday, March 01, 2004 9:36 AM Subject: Re: [AccessD] A2K MDE Runtime Reference problem - URGENT > Hi Jim > > > Yes I did. I'll check to see if they did. I just did a win98 > > install got the #name? error which is good in that at least I've got > > a platform to test against. > > I forgot, at Win 98 it can't be an admin rights' issue. > > Then it's probably because a reference exists on Win 98 but of a lower > version than that on your development machine. Access is not very keen > to accept a lower version of a reference. > Either install the newer version of the reference on Win 98 or compile > your app with the lower version of the reference. > > /gustav > > > > Maybe your client installed it without Administrator rights - which > > you probably did? > > > /gustav > > > >> I just installed on an XP system here and the app worked. Some read-only issues that I believe relate to security on the machine I was on but the date functions all worked. > > >> I seem to recall some code in the archives that set references. I'll take a look there and see what comes up. > > >> Thanks again, > > >> Jim D. > > >> -----Original Message----- > >> From: Gustav Brock [mailto:gustav at cactus.dk] > >> Sent: Monday, March 01, 2004 9:32 AM > >> To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > >> Subject: Re: [AccessD] A2K MDE Runtime Reference problem - URGENT > > > >> Hi Jim > > >> The Date fields are the symptom only. > >> The cure is to locate and reestablish one or more missing reference. > > >> Access will - and is quite good at it but not perfect - try to locate > >> any missing reference in the current environment, thus adjusting the > >> path for each of these references. > >> Maybe Access succeeded when the MDE was moved to your platform > >> (Win2000 and C:\WINNT) but failed when it moved "back" (Win 9x/XP and > >> C:\Windows) at the clients. > > >> /gustav > > >>> The real mystery is that we have not changed or added any references. It just seems the date fields that have the problem. > > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From gustav at cactus.dk Tue Mar 2 09:01:54 2004 From: gustav at cactus.dk (Gustav Brock) Date: Tue, 2 Mar 2004 16:01:54 +0100 Subject: [AccessD] Acc97: report groups not staying together In-Reply-To: <200403021443.i22EhD5L083178@mxsf09.cluster1.charter.net> References: <200403021443.i22EhD5L083178@mxsf09.cluster1.charter.net> Message-ID: <347644632.20040302160154@cactus.dk> Hi chizotz Did you play with Sorting and Grouping from the menubar? Choosing Keep together: Whole group should do the trick. /gustav > I have a report that has a group with group totals in the group footer. I can't seem to keep the groups from breaking over to a new page. What I want is for the group totals to always print on the > same page as the last line of the details for that iteration of the group. > Seems like it should be simple enough, but playing with the "keep together" settings doesn't seem to have any effect. I think I remember that there was a trick to this, but I don't recall what it > is. From Bryan_Carbonnell at cbc.ca Tue Mar 2 08:52:56 2004 From: Bryan_Carbonnell at cbc.ca (Bryan Carbonnell) Date: Tue, 02 Mar 2004 09:52:56 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Append Query Not Appending Message-ID: I have created an append query that is basically moving data from one table to a similarly structured table, minus a few fields in the new table. When I run the query, I get most of the records transfered, but not all of them. I have tried to manually add a few of the records and that works. I'll be d*mned if I can figure out why the append query won't work. Any ideas? BTW, here is the SQL that is almost working :) INSERT INTO tblFault ( FaultID, FaultDate, FaultTime, FaultProgram_FK, FaultLocation_FK, FaultLocationDescription, FaultReason_FK, FaultReasonDescription, FaultDescription, FaultPerson_Fk ) SELECT Fault.ID, Fault.Shift_Date, Fault.Time, Fault.Prog, Fault.Loc, Fault.Loc_Desc, Fault.Reason, Fault.Res_Sub, Fault.Description, Fault.Resource FROM Fault ANy ideas will be greatly appreciated. Bryan Carbonnell bryan_carbonnell at cbc.ca From Patricia.O'Connor at DFA.STATE.NY.US Tue Mar 2 09:29:52 2004 From: Patricia.O'Connor at DFA.STATE.NY.US (O'Connor, Patricia ) Date: Tue, 2 Mar 2004 10:29:52 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Union the transform queris ? Message-ID: oleg/Jim Leave the UnION ALL in but take out the second union before the SELECT "Pre Investigation Opened" AS Status and it will work. Thanks Jim - this is good to know will go into my code archive Patti > -----Original Message----- > From: Jim Lawrence (AccessD) [mailto:accessd at shaw.ca] > Sent: Monday, March 01, 2004 08:19 PM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: RE: [AccessD] Union the transform queris ? > > > Hi Oleg: > > With just a quick look the code below should work. This > assumes that the > data brought back from each TRANSFORM section is identical in > field count > and type. Just needs closed curved brackets around each section and > appropriate Union type clause in between. > > HTH > Jim > > ... > (TRANSFORM Count([Ron Data spr].[ID]) AS Total > SELECT "Closed without Investigation" AS Status > FROM [Ron Data spr] > WHERE ([Ron Data spr].[Preliminary Investigation Closed] >= > [Forms]![Report Form]![Start_Date]) And ([Ron Data spr].[Preliminary > Investigation Closed]<=[Forms]![Report Form]![End_Date]) and > ([Preliminary > Investigation closed] is not null and [Investigation Opened] is null) > GROUP BY "Closed without Investigation" > PIVOT Format([Preliminary Investigation Closed],"mmm") In > ("Jan","Feb","Mar","Apr","May","Jun","Jul","Aug","Sep","Oct"," > Nov","Dec")) > UNION ALL > (TRANSFORM Count([Ron Data spr].[ID]) AS Total > Union SELECT "Pre Investigation Opened" AS Status > FROM [Ron Data spr] > WHERE ([Ron Data spr].[Preliminary Investigation Opened] >= > [Forms]![Report Form]![Start_Date]) And ([Ron Data spr].[Preliminary > Investigation Opened]<=[Forms]![Report Form]![End_Date]) and > [Preliminary > Investigation Opened] is not null > GROUP BY "Pre Investigation Opened" > PIVOT Format([Preliminary Investigation Opened],"mmm") In > ("Jan","Feb","Mar","Apr","May","Jun","Jul","Aug","Sep","Oct"," > Nov","Dec")) > ... > > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > From rl_stewart at highstream.net Tue Mar 2 09:37:27 2004 From: rl_stewart at highstream.net (Robert L. Stewart) Date: Tue, 02 Mar 2004 09:37:27 -0600 Subject: [AccessD] Re: Add tab control to tab control? In-Reply-To: <200403021449.i22En2M10660@databaseadvisors.com> Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20040302093639.0294f1e0@pop3.highstream.net> Sander, Actually, you can do it without making it invisible, but it has to be on a subform. Robert At 08:49 AM 3/2/2004 -0600, you wrote: >Date: Tue, 2 Mar 2004 14:27:36 +0100 (CET) >From: paul.hartland at fsmail.net >Subject: Re: [AccessD] Add tab control to tab control? >To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > >Message-ID: <12741325.1078234056352.JavaMail.www at wwinf3004> >Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 > >Sander, >Unless anyone comes up with a better solution, the only way I know how to >do this is to put your 2nd tab control inside the first and make it >invisible, then when the 2nd tab is clicked make tab control 2 visible, >when they click off it make it invisible again etc. >If you get a better solution that I don't see on the list, I would like to >know how it is done. >Paul > > > > > >Message date : Mar 02 2004, 01:17 PM > >From : "S D" >To : "accessd" >Copy to : >Subject : [AccessD] Add tab control to tab control? >Hi group > >I want to place a tab control on a tab control. Is this possible? > >eg: >"parent tab control" has 2 pages called: parentpage1 and parentpage2. >I want to create another tab control on parentpage2. > >TIA > >Regards, > >Sander From Developer at UltraDNT.com Tue Mar 2 09:40:58 2004 From: Developer at UltraDNT.com (Developer) Date: Tue, 2 Mar 2004 10:40:58 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Create scripts: CreateTable? In-Reply-To: <20040302070507.73265.qmail@web61106.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <000501c4006c$c5294260$7001a8c0@COA3> There is absolutely something like it, in MS-SQL 7.0 or 2000 (it's likely in 6.5 too, I just don't remember). In Enterprise Manager (2000), you right click on the development database, then "All Tasks", "Generate SQL Script...". Select any objects you want scripted (including sp's, views, etc.) and EM will generate a text file you can run in Query Analyzer on the production server. I use this all the time to develop one server and deploy on another. If you are quicker at Access tables, you may want to do your tables there, use the SQL upsize wizard, then generate the script (watch for data-type conversion quirks, however, going from Access to SQL with the wizard). Books Online will give all the details for script generation. Hth Steve -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of S D Sent: Tuesday, March 02, 2004 2:05 AM To: accessd Subject: [AccessD] Create scripts: CreateTable? Hi group, I need to create about 15 new, very large (25-42 fields) tables. Is it somehow possible to create scripts that generate these tables to migrate these tables to production? Like in SQL-Server? My suggestion was create the tables in Developmennt. Import the tables in the Test environment and then import them into Production. Answer: NO. Why? Just NO. Create scripts that generate the objects and we (third party) run the script. Is there something like it? regards, Sander --------------------------------- Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Search - Find what you're looking for faster. -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From bchacc at san.rr.com Tue Mar 2 09:39:20 2004 From: bchacc at san.rr.com (Rocky Smolin - Beach Access Software) Date: Tue, 2 Mar 2004 07:39:20 -0800 Subject: [AccessD] A2K MDE Runtime Reference problem - URGENT References: <22F1CCD5171D17419CB37FEEE09D5F990173FDED@TTNEXCHSRV1.hshhp.com> Message-ID: <005701c4006c$88076330$6801a8c0@HAL9002> Jim: I've had extra references creep into my apps and I don't know where they came from. So now, from time to time, if I can remember, I check the references at random to see what's there. Rocky ----- Original Message ----- From: "Jim DeMarco" To: "Access Developers discussion and problem solving" Sent: Tuesday, March 02, 2004 7:01 AM Subject: RE: [AccessD] A2K MDE Runtime Reference problem - URGENT > Rocky, > > They don't have the correct version of Access installed (at the win98 location). I found what I think is the offending reference (to a file named cnfgprt.ocx). We're going to remove it then recompile the app and see if it runs. I think that ocx is some NT service pack file but why it's referenced here is a mystery. > > Jim DeMarco > > -----Original Message----- > From: Rocky Smolin - Beach Access Software [mailto:bchacc at san.rr.com] > Sent: Monday, March 01, 2004 1:28 PM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: Re: [AccessD] A2K MDE Runtime Reference problem - URGENT > > > Jim: > > If they can load Access on that machine, you could send them a stripped down > version of the app as an mdb and it should blow dumping them into the code > window. From there you could walk them through displaying the references to > see which one is broken and the do a search on it, copying it to the > expected directory. > > Rocky > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Gustav Brock" > To: "Access Developers discussion and problem solving" > > Sent: Monday, March 01, 2004 9:36 AM > Subject: Re: [AccessD] A2K MDE Runtime Reference problem - URGENT > > > > Hi Jim > > > > > Yes I did. I'll check to see if they did. I just did a win98 > > > install got the #name? error which is good in that at least I've got > > > a platform to test against. > > > > I forgot, at Win 98 it can't be an admin rights' issue. > > > > Then it's probably because a reference exists on Win 98 but of a lower > > version than that on your development machine. Access is not very keen > > to accept a lower version of a reference. > > Either install the newer version of the reference on Win 98 or compile > > your app with the lower version of the reference. > > > > /gustav > > > > > > > Maybe your client installed it without Administrator rights - which > > > you probably did? > > > > > /gustav > > > > > > >> I just installed on an XP system here and the app worked. Some > read-only issues that I believe relate to security on the machine I was on > but the date functions all worked. > > > > >> I seem to recall some code in the archives that set references. I'll > take a look there and see what comes up. > > > > >> Thanks again, > > > > >> Jim D. > > > > >> -----Original Message----- > > >> From: Gustav Brock [mailto:gustav at cactus.dk] > > >> Sent: Monday, March 01, 2004 9:32 AM > > >> To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > > >> Subject: Re: [AccessD] A2K MDE Runtime Reference problem - URGENT > > > > > > >> Hi Jim > > > > >> The Date fields are the symptom only. > > >> The cure is to locate and reestablish one or more missing reference. > > > > >> Access will - and is quite good at it but not perfect - try to locate > > >> any missing reference in the current environment, thus adjusting the > > >> path for each of these references. > > >> Maybe Access succeeded when the MDE was moved to your platform > > >> (Win2000 and C:\WINNT) but failed when it moved "back" (Win 9x/XP and > > >> C:\Windows) at the clients. > > > > >> /gustav > > > > >>> The real mystery is that we have not changed or added any references. > It just seems the date fields that have the problem. > > > > -- > > _______________________________________________ > > AccessD mailing list > > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > From Bryan_Carbonnell at cbc.ca Tue Mar 2 09:36:41 2004 From: Bryan_Carbonnell at cbc.ca (Bryan Carbonnell) Date: Tue, 02 Mar 2004 10:36:41 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Append Query Not Appending Message-ID: Never mind. I think that the send button actually turns brains on. It turns out that I had two fields that I forgot to allow nulls in. Thanks for reading Bryan Carbonnell bryan_carbonnell at cbc.ca >>> Bryan_Carbonnell at cbc.ca 02-Mar-04 9:52:56 AM >>> I have created an append query that is basically moving data from one table to a similarly structured table, minus a few fields in the new table. When I run the query, I get most of the records transfered, but not all of them. I have tried to manually add a few of the records and that works. I'll be d*mned if I can figure out why the append query won't work. Any ideas? BTW, here is the SQL that is almost working :) From ranthony at wrsystems.com Tue Mar 2 09:41:53 2004 From: ranthony at wrsystems.com (Randall Anthony) Date: Tue, 2 Mar 2004 10:41:53 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Append Query Not Appending Message-ID: <5F21A4E8B8DD734992EF9E70AC9D3064128ABB@mail2.wrsystems.com> Set your code to Docmd.setwarnings true, and see if you're getting an error message on key violations. -----Original Message----- From: Bryan Carbonnell [mailto:Bryan_Carbonnell at cbc.ca] Sent: Tuesday, March 02, 2004 9:53 AM To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: [AccessD] Append Query Not Appending I have created an append query that is basically moving data from one table to a similarly structured table, minus a few fields in the new table. When I run the query, I get most of the records transfered, but not all of them. I have tried to manually add a few of the records and that works. I'll be d*mned if I can figure out why the append query won't work. Any ideas? BTW, here is the SQL that is almost working :) INSERT INTO tblFault ( FaultID, FaultDate, FaultTime, FaultProgram_FK, FaultLocation_FK, FaultLocationDescription, FaultReason_FK, FaultReasonDescription, FaultDescription, FaultPerson_Fk ) SELECT Fault.ID, Fault.Shift_Date, Fault.Time, Fault.Prog, Fault.Loc, Fault.Loc_Desc, Fault.Reason, Fault.Res_Sub, Fault.Description, Fault.Resource FROM Fault ANy ideas will be greatly appreciated. Bryan Carbonnell bryan_carbonnell at cbc.ca -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From rl_stewart at highstream.net Tue Mar 2 09:44:23 2004 From: rl_stewart at highstream.net (Robert L. Stewart) Date: Tue, 02 Mar 2004 09:44:23 -0600 Subject: [AccessD] Re: Create scripts: CreateTable? In-Reply-To: <200403021449.i22En2M10660@databaseadvisors.com> Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20040302094037.0294b1e8@pop3.highstream.net> Sander, No, there is not something like this. You will need to write it yourself. Not sure who your YAHOOS are, but if they are that gun-hoo, they should be using something like Source Safe to store the different versions. Source safe, I think, will store the table structure for you. And then it can be promoted from inside source safe to production. Robert At 08:49 AM 3/2/2004 -0600, you wrote: >Date: Mon, 1 Mar 2004 23:05:07 -0800 (PST) >From: S D >Subject: [AccessD] Create scripts: CreateTable? >To: accessd >Message-ID: <20040302070507.73265.qmail at web61106.mail.yahoo.com> >Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii > >Hi group, > >I need to create about 15 new, very large (25-42 fields) tables. Is it >somehow possible to create scripts that generate these tables to migrate >these tables to production? Like in SQL-Server? > >My suggestion was create the tables in Developmennt. Import the tables in >the Test environment and then import them into Production. Answer: NO. >Why? Just NO. Create scripts that generate the objects and we (third >party) run the script. > >Is there something like it? > >regards, > >Sander From ranthony at wrsystems.com Tue Mar 2 09:47:40 2004 From: ranthony at wrsystems.com (Randall Anthony) Date: Tue, 2 Mar 2004 10:47:40 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Append Query Not Appending Message-ID: <5F21A4E8B8DD734992EF9E70AC9D3064128ABC@mail2.wrsystems.com> I hate when that happens... :) -----Original Message----- From: Bryan Carbonnell [mailto:Bryan_Carbonnell at cbc.ca] Sent: Tuesday, March 02, 2004 10:37 AM To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: Re: [AccessD] Append Query Not Appending Never mind. I think that the send button actually turns brains on. It turns out that I had two fields that I forgot to allow nulls in. Thanks for reading Bryan Carbonnell bryan_carbonnell at cbc.ca >>> Bryan_Carbonnell at cbc.ca 02-Mar-04 9:52:56 AM >>> I have created an append query that is basically moving data from one table to a similarly structured table, minus a few fields in the new table. When I run the query, I get most of the records transfered, but not all of them. I have tried to manually add a few of the records and that works. I'll be d*mned if I can figure out why the append query won't work. Any ideas? BTW, here is the SQL that is almost working :) -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From Bryan_Carbonnell at cbc.ca Tue Mar 2 09:51:36 2004 From: Bryan_Carbonnell at cbc.ca (Bryan Carbonnell) Date: Tue, 02 Mar 2004 10:51:36 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Append Query Not Appending Message-ID: Yea, me too :) Bryan >>> ranthony at wrsystems.com 02-Mar-04 10:47:40 AM >>> I hate when that happens... :) -----Original Message----- From: Bryan Carbonnell [mailto:Bryan_Carbonnell at cbc.ca] Sent: Tuesday, March 02, 2004 10:37 AM To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: Re: [AccessD] Append Query Not Appending Never mind. I think that the send button actually turns brains on. It turns out that I had two fields that I forgot to allow nulls in. From rl_stewart at highstream.net Tue Mar 2 09:58:34 2004 From: rl_stewart at highstream.net (Robert L. Stewart) Date: Tue, 02 Mar 2004 09:58:34 -0600 Subject: [AccessD] Re: Create scripts: CreateTable? In-Reply-To: <200403021449.i22En2M10660@databaseadvisors.com> Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20040302095517.02922ee0@pop3.highstream.net> Sander, Here is a little code to get you started. Sub GetTableStructure(ByVal strTableName As String) ' Get the Table structure of a table Dim db As DAO.database Dim tdf As DAO.TableDef Set db = CurrentDb() Set tdf = db.TableDefs(strTableName) Dim fld As DAO.Field For Each fld In tdf.Fields Debug.Print fld.Name, fld.Type, fld.Size Next db.Close Set db = Nothing End Sub This will get the structure of a table you pass in the name of. I will leave it up to you to write the code to create the text file you will need for them to import, place in a module, and run in order to recreate the table structure. Hint: Create a table that has every data type in it to see what the fld.type is returning. Robert At 08:49 AM 3/2/2004 -0600, you wrote: >Date: Mon, 1 Mar 2004 23:05:07 -0800 (PST) >From: S D >Subject: [AccessD] Create scripts: CreateTable? >To: accessd >Message-ID: <20040302070507.73265.qmail at web61106.mail.yahoo.com> >Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii > >Hi group, > >I need to create about 15 new, very large (25-42 fields) tables. Is it >somehow possible to create scripts that generate these tables to migrate >these tables to production? Like in SQL-Server? > >My suggestion was create the tables in Developmennt. Import the tables in >the Test environment and then import them into Production. Answer: NO. >Why? Just NO. Create scripts that generate the objects and we (third >party) run the script. > >Is there something like it? > >regards, > >Sander From Jdemarco at hudsonhealthplan.org Tue Mar 2 10:03:26 2004 From: Jdemarco at hudsonhealthplan.org (Jim DeMarco) Date: Tue, 2 Mar 2004 11:03:26 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] A2K MDE Runtime Reference problem - URGENT Message-ID: <22F1CCD5171D17419CB37FEEE09D5F990173FDF1@TTNEXCHSRV1.hshhp.com> Well we took it out and recompiled and we're good to go! Thanks to all, Jim D. -----Original Message----- From: Rocky Smolin - Beach Access Software [mailto:bchacc at san.rr.com] Sent: Tuesday, March 02, 2004 10:39 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] A2K MDE Runtime Reference problem - URGENT Jim: I've had extra references creep into my apps and I don't know where they came from. So now, from time to time, if I can remember, I check the references at random to see what's there. Rocky ----- Original Message ----- From: "Jim DeMarco" To: "Access Developers discussion and problem solving" Sent: Tuesday, March 02, 2004 7:01 AM Subject: RE: [AccessD] A2K MDE Runtime Reference problem - URGENT > Rocky, > > They don't have the correct version of Access installed (at the win98 location). I found what I think is the offending reference (to a file named cnfgprt.ocx). We're going to remove it then recompile the app and see if it runs. I think that ocx is some NT service pack file but why it's referenced here is a mystery. > > Jim DeMarco > > -----Original Message----- > From: Rocky Smolin - Beach Access Software [mailto:bchacc at san.rr.com] > Sent: Monday, March 01, 2004 1:28 PM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: Re: [AccessD] A2K MDE Runtime Reference problem - URGENT > > > Jim: > > If they can load Access on that machine, you could send them a stripped down > version of the app as an mdb and it should blow dumping them into the code > window. From there you could walk them through displaying the references to > see which one is broken and the do a search on it, copying it to the > expected directory. > > Rocky > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Gustav Brock" > To: "Access Developers discussion and problem solving" > > Sent: Monday, March 01, 2004 9:36 AM > Subject: Re: [AccessD] A2K MDE Runtime Reference problem - URGENT > > > > Hi Jim > > > > > Yes I did. I'll check to see if they did. I just did a win98 > > > install got the #name? error which is good in that at least I've got > > > a platform to test against. > > > > I forgot, at Win 98 it can't be an admin rights' issue. > > > > Then it's probably because a reference exists on Win 98 but of a lower > > version than that on your development machine. Access is not very keen > > to accept a lower version of a reference. > > Either install the newer version of the reference on Win 98 or compile > > your app with the lower version of the reference. > > > > /gustav > > > > > > > Maybe your client installed it without Administrator rights - which > > > you probably did? > > > > > /gustav > > > > > > >> I just installed on an XP system here and the app worked. Some > read-only issues that I believe relate to security on the machine I was on > but the date functions all worked. > > > > >> I seem to recall some code in the archives that set references. I'll > take a look there and see what comes up. > > > > >> Thanks again, > > > > >> Jim D. > > > > >> -----Original Message----- > > >> From: Gustav Brock [mailto:gustav at cactus.dk] > > >> Sent: Monday, March 01, 2004 9:32 AM > > >> To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > > >> Subject: Re: [AccessD] A2K MDE Runtime Reference problem - URGENT > > > > > > >> Hi Jim > > > > >> The Date fields are the symptom only. > > >> The cure is to locate and reestablish one or more missing reference. > > > > >> Access will - and is quite good at it but not perfect - try to locate > > >> any missing reference in the current environment, thus adjusting the > > >> path for each of these references. > > >> Maybe Access succeeded when the MDE was moved to your platform > > >> (Win2000 and C:\WINNT) but failed when it moved "back" (Win 9x/XP and > > >> C:\Windows) at the clients. > > > > >> /gustav > > > > >>> The real mystery is that we have not changed or added any references. > It just seems the date fields that have the problem. > > > > -- > > _______________________________________________ > > AccessD mailing list > > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From chizotz at charter.net Tue Mar 2 10:15:16 2004 From: chizotz at charter.net (chizotz at charter.net) Date: Tue, 2 Mar 2004 10:15:16 -0600 Subject: [AccessD] Acc97: report groups not staying together Message-ID: <200403021615.i22GFGk1082353@mxsf11.cluster1.charter.net> Ahhh. Thanks Gustav, I'll do that. > Did you play with Sorting and Grouping from the menubar? > Choosing > > Keep together: Whole group > > should do the trick. > > /gustav From gustav at cactus.dk Tue Mar 2 10:11:35 2004 From: gustav at cactus.dk (Gustav Brock) Date: Tue, 2 Mar 2004 17:11:35 +0100 Subject: [AccessD] A2K MDE Runtime Reference problem - URGENT In-Reply-To: <005701c4006c$88076330$6801a8c0@HAL9002> References: <22F1CCD5171D17419CB37FEEE09D5F990173FDED@TTNEXCHSRV1.hshhp.com> <005701c4006c$88076330$6801a8c0@HAL9002> Message-ID: <19611825243.20040302171135@cactus.dk> Hi Rocky and Jim You are a nice couple looking for trouble! Checking references at random or not at all is not a recommendable road. You should include that as a mandatory step when you finish your work together with version numbering, (de)compiling, compacting, archiving, documenting, modifying install routines etc. /gustav > Jim: > I've had extra references creep into my apps and I don't know where they > came from. So now, from time to time, if I can remember, I check the > references at random to see what's there. > Rocky From gustav at cactus.dk Tue Mar 2 10:16:07 2004 From: gustav at cactus.dk (Gustav Brock) Date: Tue, 2 Mar 2004 17:16:07 +0100 Subject: [AccessD] Re: Create scripts: CreateTable? In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.2.20040302095517.02922ee0@pop3.highstream.net> References: <5.1.0.14.2.20040302095517.02922ee0@pop3.highstream.net> Message-ID: <15012096874.20040302171607@cactus.dk> Hi Sander Why not use the BEU for this? I don't use it myself but several of the key developers monitors this list. /gustav >>I need to create about 15 new, very large (25-42 fields) tables. Is it >>somehow possible to create scripts that generate these tables to migrate >>these tables to production? Like in SQL-Server? >> >>My suggestion was create the tables in Developmennt. Import the tables in >>the Test environment and then import them into Production. Answer: NO. >>Why? Just NO. Create scripts that generate the objects and we (third >>party) run the script. >> >>Is there something like it? >> >>regards, >> >>Sander From jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com Tue Mar 2 10:23:14 2004 From: jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com (John W. Colby) Date: Tue, 2 Mar 2004 11:23:14 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] word automation not printing In-Reply-To: Message-ID: I got both your original and this one. John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Mitsules, Mark S. (Newport News) Sent: Tuesday, March 02, 2004 9:39 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: [AccessD] word automation not printing ...hmmm:( Are my posts not making it to the list? I posted a similar example from you over an hour ago;) Mark -----Original Message----- From: Gustav Brock [mailto:gustav at cactus.dk] Sent: Tuesday, March 02, 2004 9:33 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] word automation not printing Hi John You may choose to print the document in the background: Function WordDocPrint( _ ByVal strFilename As String, _ Optional ByVal booPrintBackGround As Boolean = False) _ As Boolean ' Print Word document from within Access. ' 2000-05-27. Gustav Brock. Cactus Data ApS. ' 2000-09-10. Modified with option for background printing. ' Example: ? WordDocPrint("C:\Programmer\Microsoft Office 97\Office\Eksempler\produkter.doc") Dim appWord As Word.Application Dim booSuccess As Boolean Set appWord = New Word.Application Debug.Print "- activated" With appWord If Len(Dir(strFilename)) > 0 Then ' Open document strFilename read-only. .Documents.Open strFilename, , True Debug.Print "- opened" .ActiveDocument.PrintOut booPrintBackGround While .BackgroundPrintingStatus > 0 Debug.Print "- printing" DoEvents Wend Debug.Print "- printed" .ActiveDocument.Close Debug.Print "- closed" booSuccess = True End If .Quit Debug.Print "- quit" End With Set appWord = Nothing WordDocPrint = booSuccess End Function /gustav > I am using the following code to print an existing document using word > automation. If I leave out the msgbox statement the document doesn't > print. It's almost as if the close happens before the print manages to > get the document out of word and into the print queue. Has anyone > seen this? Any suggestions? The "Press any key" solution is > unprofessional to say the least. > Function PrintWordDoc(strFilePath As String, strFileName As String, > intCnt As Integer) As Boolean On Error GoTo Err_PrintWordDoc > Dim AppWord As Word.Application > Dim lDoc As Word.Document > Set AppWord = CreateObject("Word.Application") > With AppWord > .Visible = True > .Documents.Open (strFilePath & strFileName) > Set lDoc = .Documents(strFileName) > lDoc.PrintOut , , , , , , , intCnt > msgbox "Press any key to continue" > .Quit savechanges:=False > End With > PrintWordDoc = True > Exit_PrintWordDoc: > On Error Resume Next > Set lDoc = Nothing > Set AppWord = Nothing > Exit Function > Err_PrintWordDoc: > MsgBox Err.Description, , "Error in Sub basMailMerge.PrintWordDoc" > Resume Exit_PrintWordDoc > Resume 0 '.FOR TROUBLESHOOTING > End Function -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com Tue Mar 2 10:23:14 2004 From: jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com (John W. Colby) Date: Tue, 2 Mar 2004 11:23:14 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] word automation not printing In-Reply-To: <1175921094.20040302153311@cactus.dk> Message-ID: Thanks Gustav, Mark. John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Gustav Brock Sent: Tuesday, March 02, 2004 9:33 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] word automation not printing Hi John You may choose to print the document in the background: Function WordDocPrint( _ ByVal strFilename As String, _ Optional ByVal booPrintBackGround As Boolean = False) _ As Boolean ' Print Word document from within Access. ' 2000-05-27. Gustav Brock. Cactus Data ApS. ' 2000-09-10. Modified with option for background printing. ' Example: ? WordDocPrint("C:\Programmer\Microsoft Office 97\Office\Eksempler\produkter.doc") Dim appWord As Word.Application Dim booSuccess As Boolean Set appWord = New Word.Application Debug.Print "- activated" With appWord If Len(Dir(strFilename)) > 0 Then ' Open document strFilename read-only. .Documents.Open strFilename, , True Debug.Print "- opened" .ActiveDocument.PrintOut booPrintBackGround While .BackgroundPrintingStatus > 0 Debug.Print "- printing" DoEvents Wend Debug.Print "- printed" .ActiveDocument.Close Debug.Print "- closed" booSuccess = True End If .Quit Debug.Print "- quit" End With Set appWord = Nothing WordDocPrint = booSuccess End Function /gustav > I am using the following code to print an existing document using word > automation. If I leave out the msgbox statement the document doesn't print. > It's almost as if the close happens before the print manages to get the > document out of word and into the print queue. Has anyone seen this? Any > suggestions? The "Press any key" solution is unprofessional to say the > least. > Function PrintWordDoc(strFilePath As String, strFileName As String, intCnt > As Integer) As Boolean > On Error GoTo Err_PrintWordDoc > Dim AppWord As Word.Application > Dim lDoc As Word.Document > Set AppWord = CreateObject("Word.Application") > With AppWord > .Visible = True > .Documents.Open (strFilePath & strFileName) > Set lDoc = .Documents(strFileName) > lDoc.PrintOut , , , , , , , intCnt > msgbox "Press any key to continue" > .Quit savechanges:=False > End With > PrintWordDoc = True > Exit_PrintWordDoc: > On Error Resume Next > Set lDoc = Nothing > Set AppWord = Nothing > Exit Function > Err_PrintWordDoc: > MsgBox Err.Description, , "Error in Sub basMailMerge.PrintWordDoc" > Resume Exit_PrintWordDoc > Resume 0 '.FOR TROUBLESHOOTING > End Function -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From cfoust at infostatsystems.com Tue Mar 2 10:24:25 2004 From: cfoust at infostatsystems.com (Charlotte Foust) Date: Tue, 2 Mar 2004 08:24:25 -0800 Subject: [AccessD] A2K MDE Runtime Reference problem - URGENT Message-ID: >From the name of the file, it sounds like a printer configuration control. I don't remember anything like that on my NT box. Was there anything like a pdf printer installed on the machine? Charlotte Foust -----Original Message----- From: Jim DeMarco [mailto:Jdemarco at hudsonhealthplan.org] Sent: Tuesday, March 02, 2004 7:01 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] A2K MDE Runtime Reference problem - URGENT Rocky, They don't have the correct version of Access installed (at the win98 location). I found what I think is the offending reference (to a file named cnfgprt.ocx). We're going to remove it then recompile the app and see if it runs. I think that ocx is some NT service pack file but why it's referenced here is a mystery. Jim DeMarco -----Original Message----- From: Rocky Smolin - Beach Access Software [mailto:bchacc at san.rr.com] Sent: Monday, March 01, 2004 1:28 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] A2K MDE Runtime Reference problem - URGENT Jim: If they can load Access on that machine, you could send them a stripped down version of the app as an mdb and it should blow dumping them into the code window. From there you could walk them through displaying the references to see which one is broken and the do a search on it, copying it to the expected directory. Rocky ----- Original Message ----- From: "Gustav Brock" To: "Access Developers discussion and problem solving" Sent: Monday, March 01, 2004 9:36 AM Subject: Re: [AccessD] A2K MDE Runtime Reference problem - URGENT > Hi Jim > > > Yes I did. I'll check to see if they did. I just did a win98 > > install got the #name? error which is good in that at least I've got > > a platform to test against. > > I forgot, at Win 98 it can't be an admin rights' issue. > > Then it's probably because a reference exists on Win 98 but of a lower > version than that on your development machine. Access is not very keen > to accept a lower version of a reference. Either install the newer > version of the reference on Win 98 or compile your app with the lower > version of the reference. > > /gustav > > > > Maybe your client installed it without Administrator rights - which > > you probably did? > > > /gustav > > > >> I just installed on an XP system here and the app worked. Some read-only issues that I believe relate to security on the machine I was on but the date functions all worked. > > >> I seem to recall some code in the archives that set references. > >> I'll take a look there and see what comes up. > > >> Thanks again, > > >> Jim D. > > >> -----Original Message----- > >> From: Gustav Brock [mailto:gustav at cactus.dk] > >> Sent: Monday, March 01, 2004 9:32 AM > >> To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > >> Subject: Re: [AccessD] A2K MDE Runtime Reference problem - URGENT > > > >> Hi Jim > > >> The Date fields are the symptom only. > >> The cure is to locate and reestablish one or more missing > >> reference. > > >> Access will - and is quite good at it but not perfect - try to > >> locate any missing reference in the current environment, thus > >> adjusting the path for each of these references. Maybe Access > >> succeeded when the MDE was moved to your platform (Win2000 and > >> C:\WINNT) but failed when it moved "back" (Win 9x/XP and > >> C:\Windows) at the clients. > > >> /gustav > > >>> The real mystery is that we have not changed or added any > >>> references. It just seems the date fields that have the problem. > > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From Bryan_Carbonnell at cbc.ca Tue Mar 2 10:26:01 2004 From: Bryan_Carbonnell at cbc.ca (Bryan Carbonnell) Date: Tue, 02 Mar 2004 11:26:01 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Re: Create scripts: CreateTable? Message-ID: The BEU works ONLY for Access MDB BEs. Not SQL-Server BE. Bryan Carbonnell bryan_carbonnell at cbc.ca >>> gustav at cactus.dk 02-Mar-04 11:16:07 AM >>> Hi Sander Why not use the BEU for this? I don't use it myself but several of the key developers monitors this list. /gustav >>I need to create about 15 new, very large (25-42 fields) tables. Is it >>somehow possible to create scripts that generate these tables to migrate >>these tables to production? Like in SQL-Server? >> >>My suggestion was create the tables in Developmennt. Import the tables in >>the Test environment and then import them into Production. Answer: NO. >>Why? Just NO. Create scripts that generate the objects and we (third >>party) run the script. >> >>Is there something like it? >> >>regards, >> >>Sander -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From cfoust at infostatsystems.com Tue Mar 2 10:29:25 2004 From: cfoust at infostatsystems.com (Charlotte Foust) Date: Tue, 2 Mar 2004 08:29:25 -0800 Subject: [AccessD] SQL Error Message-ID: I'm not sure what you're trying to say, but is there a reason not to use: ((Member.Rank)<>'WO1'))? Charlotte Foust -----Original Message----- From: Dean Ellis [mailto:deanellis at iprimus.com.au] Sent: Tuesday, March 02, 2004 4:27 AM To: AccessD Subject: [AccessD] SQL Error Hi All, Can anybody help with the following line of Code. I created the SQL part directly from the query window but I keep getting the error "Expected end of statement at the "WO1" area Me.Combo6.RowSource = "SELECT DISTINCTROW Member.[Regt Number], Member Surname, Member.Rank FROM Member WHERE ((Not(Member.Rank)= "WO1")) ORDER BY Member.Surname;" Basically its a dropdown box that needs to leave out certain record depending on the members rank Any thoughts -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From Oleg_123 at xuppa.com Tue Mar 2 10:33:23 2004 From: Oleg_123 at xuppa.com (Oleg_123 at xuppa.com) Date: Tue, 2 Mar 2004 11:33:23 -0500 (EST) Subject: [AccessD] Union the transform queris ? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <43993.63.251.87.214.1078245203.squirrel@heck.bay9.com> Patricia/Jim - thanks a lot :--) > oleg/Jim > > Leave the UnION ALL in but take out the second union before the SELECT > "Pre Investigation Opened" AS Status and it will work. > > Thanks Jim - this is good to know will go into my code archive > > Patti > > > >> -----Original Message----- >> From: Jim Lawrence (AccessD) [mailto:accessd at shaw.ca] >> Sent: Monday, March 01, 2004 08:19 PM >> To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving >> Subject: RE: [AccessD] Union the transform queris ? >> >> >> Hi Oleg: >> >> With just a quick look the code below should work. This >> assumes that the >> data brought back from each TRANSFORM section is identical in >> field count >> and type. Just needs closed curved brackets around each section and >> appropriate Union type clause in between. >> >> HTH >> Jim >> >> ... >> (TRANSFORM Count([Ron Data spr].[ID]) AS Total >> SELECT "Closed without Investigation" AS Status >> FROM [Ron Data spr] >> WHERE ([Ron Data spr].[Preliminary Investigation Closed] >= >> [Forms]![Report Form]![Start_Date]) And ([Ron Data spr].[Preliminary >> Investigation Closed]<=[Forms]![Report Form]![End_Date]) and >> ([Preliminary >> Investigation closed] is not null and [Investigation Opened] is null) >> GROUP BY "Closed without Investigation" >> PIVOT Format([Preliminary Investigation Closed],"mmm") In >> ("Jan","Feb","Mar","Apr","May","Jun","Jul","Aug","Sep","Oct"," >> Nov","Dec")) >> UNION ALL >> (TRANSFORM Count([Ron Data spr].[ID]) AS Total >> Union SELECT "Pre Investigation Opened" AS Status >> FROM [Ron Data spr] >> WHERE ([Ron Data spr].[Preliminary Investigation Opened] >= >> [Forms]![Report Form]![Start_Date]) And ([Ron Data spr].[Preliminary >> Investigation Opened]<=[Forms]![Report Form]![End_Date]) and >> [Preliminary >> Investigation Opened] is not null >> GROUP BY "Pre Investigation Opened" >> PIVOT Format([Preliminary Investigation Opened],"mmm") In >> ("Jan","Feb","Mar","Apr","May","Jun","Jul","Aug","Sep","Oct"," >> Nov","Dec")) >> ... >> >> -- >> _______________________________________________ >> AccessD mailing list >> AccessD at databaseadvisors.com >> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd >> Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com >> > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com ----------------------------------------- Get Breaking News from CNN, ABC, NBC, CBS Now. http://www.xuppa.com/news/?link=webmail From gustav at cactus.dk Tue Mar 2 10:39:37 2004 From: gustav at cactus.dk (Gustav Brock) Date: Tue, 2 Mar 2004 17:39:37 +0100 Subject: [AccessD] Re: Create scripts: CreateTable? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <13113507542.20040302173937@cactus.dk> Hi Bryan Yes, but isn't that the case? If not, why did Sander write "like in SQL Server? Sander? /gustav > The BEU works ONLY for Access MDB BEs. Not SQL-Server BE. > Bryan Carbonnell > bryan_carbonnell at cbc.ca >>>> gustav at cactus.dk 02-Mar-04 11:16:07 AM >>> > Hi Sander > Why not use the BEU for this? > I don't use it myself but several of the key developers monitors this > list. > /gustav >>>I need to create about 15 new, very large (25-42 fields) tables. Is it >>>somehow possible to create scripts that generate these tables to migrate >>>these tables to production? Like in SQL-Server? >>> >>>My suggestion was create the tables in Developmennt. Import the tables in >>>the Test environment and then import them into Production. Answer: NO. >>>Why? Just NO. Create scripts that generate the objects and we (third >>>party) run the script. >>> >>>Is there something like it? >>> >>>regards, >>> >>>Sander From Bryan_Carbonnell at cbc.ca Tue Mar 2 10:46:35 2004 From: Bryan_Carbonnell at cbc.ca (Bryan Carbonnell) Date: Tue, 02 Mar 2004 11:46:35 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Re: Create scripts: CreateTable? Message-ID: Don't know. I just read SQL-Server and assumed that Sander wanted it for SQL-Server and not an mdb. I guess we need some clarification. Bryan >>> gustav at cactus.dk 02-Mar-04 11:39:37 AM >>> Hi Bryan Yes, but isn't that the case? If not, why did Sander write "like in SQL Server? Sander? /gustav > The BEU works ONLY for Access MDB BEs. Not SQL-Server BE. > Bryan Carbonnell > bryan_carbonnell at cbc.ca >>>> gustav at cactus.dk 02-Mar-04 11:16:07 AM >>> > Hi Sander > Why not use the BEU for this? > I don't use it myself but several of the key developers monitors this > list. From Jdemarco at hudsonhealthplan.org Tue Mar 2 11:47:41 2004 From: Jdemarco at hudsonhealthplan.org (Jim DeMarco) Date: Tue, 2 Mar 2004 12:47:41 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] A2K MDE Runtime Reference problem - URGENT Message-ID: <22F1CCD5171D17419CB37FEEE09D5F990173FDFE@TTNEXCHSRV1.hshhp.com> Not that I know of. I Googled it and came to the conclusion (aka guess) that it had something to do with Windows updates but there's nothing about it on M$KB so it's still a WAG. -----Original Message----- From: Charlotte Foust [mailto:cfoust at infostatsystems.com] Sent: Tuesday, March 02, 2004 11:24 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] A2K MDE Runtime Reference problem - URGENT >From the name of the file, it sounds like a printer configuration control. I don't remember anything like that on my NT box. Was there anything like a pdf printer installed on the machine? Charlotte Foust -----Original Message----- From: Jim DeMarco [mailto:Jdemarco at hudsonhealthplan.org] Sent: Tuesday, March 02, 2004 7:01 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] A2K MDE Runtime Reference problem - URGENT Rocky, They don't have the correct version of Access installed (at the win98 location). I found what I think is the offending reference (to a file named cnfgprt.ocx). We're going to remove it then recompile the app and see if it runs. I think that ocx is some NT service pack file but why it's referenced here is a mystery. Jim DeMarco -----Original Message----- From: Rocky Smolin - Beach Access Software [mailto:bchacc at san.rr.com] Sent: Monday, March 01, 2004 1:28 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] A2K MDE Runtime Reference problem - URGENT Jim: If they can load Access on that machine, you could send them a stripped down version of the app as an mdb and it should blow dumping them into the code window. From there you could walk them through displaying the references to see which one is broken and the do a search on it, copying it to the expected directory. Rocky ----- Original Message ----- From: "Gustav Brock" To: "Access Developers discussion and problem solving" Sent: Monday, March 01, 2004 9:36 AM Subject: Re: [AccessD] A2K MDE Runtime Reference problem - URGENT > Hi Jim > > > Yes I did. I'll check to see if they did. I just did a win98 > > install got the #name? error which is good in that at least I've got > > a platform to test against. > > I forgot, at Win 98 it can't be an admin rights' issue. > > Then it's probably because a reference exists on Win 98 but of a lower > version than that on your development machine. Access is not very keen > to accept a lower version of a reference. Either install the newer > version of the reference on Win 98 or compile your app with the lower > version of the reference. > > /gustav > > > > Maybe your client installed it without Administrator rights - which > > you probably did? > > > /gustav > > > >> I just installed on an XP system here and the app worked. Some read-only issues that I believe relate to security on the machine I was on but the date functions all worked. > > >> I seem to recall some code in the archives that set references. > >> I'll take a look there and see what comes up. > > >> Thanks again, > > >> Jim D. > > >> -----Original Message----- > >> From: Gustav Brock [mailto:gustav at cactus.dk] > >> Sent: Monday, March 01, 2004 9:32 AM > >> To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > >> Subject: Re: [AccessD] A2K MDE Runtime Reference problem - URGENT > > > >> Hi Jim > > >> The Date fields are the symptom only. > >> The cure is to locate and reestablish one or more missing > >> reference. > > >> Access will - and is quite good at it but not perfect - try to > >> locate any missing reference in the current environment, thus > >> adjusting the path for each of these references. Maybe Access > >> succeeded when the MDE was moved to your platform (Win2000 and > >> C:\WINNT) but failed when it moved "back" (Win 9x/XP and > >> C:\Windows) at the clients. > > >> /gustav > > >>> The real mystery is that we have not changed or added any > >>> references. It just seems the date fields that have the problem. > > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From Jdemarco at hudsonhealthplan.org Tue Mar 2 11:48:15 2004 From: Jdemarco at hudsonhealthplan.org (Jim DeMarco) Date: Tue, 2 Mar 2004 12:48:15 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] A2K MDE Runtime Reference problem - URGENT Message-ID: <22F1CCD5171D17419CB37FEEE09D5F990173FDFF@TTNEXCHSRV1.hshhp.com> Ouch!! Duly reprimanded! Jim -----Original Message----- From: Gustav Brock [mailto:gustav at cactus.dk] Sent: Tuesday, March 02, 2004 11:12 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] A2K MDE Runtime Reference problem - URGENT Hi Rocky and Jim You are a nice couple looking for trouble! Checking references at random or not at all is not a recommendable road. You should include that as a mandatory step when you finish your work together with version numbering, (de)compiling, compacting, archiving, documenting, modifying install routines etc. /gustav > Jim: > I've had extra references creep into my apps and I don't know where they > came from. So now, from time to time, if I can remember, I check the > references at random to see what's there. > Rocky -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From rl_stewart at highstream.net Tue Mar 2 12:10:15 2004 From: rl_stewart at highstream.net (Robert L. Stewart) Date: Tue, 02 Mar 2004 12:10:15 -0600 Subject: [AccessD] Re: A2K MDE Runtime Reference problem - URGENT In-Reply-To: <200403021659.i22GxSM09668@databaseadvisors.com> Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20040302120924.029d3d78@pop3.highstream.net> Jim, Just a WAG, but from the name of it, I would say it is a printer configuration OCX file. Robert At 10:59 AM 3/2/2004 -0600, you wrote: >Date: Tue, 2 Mar 2004 10:01:16 -0500 >From: "Jim DeMarco" >Subject: RE: [AccessD] A2K MDE Runtime Reference problem - URGENT >To: "Access Developers discussion and problem solving" > >Message-ID: > <22F1CCD5171D17419CB37FEEE09D5F990173FDED at TTNEXCHSRV1.hshhp.com> >Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" > >Rocky, > >They don't have the correct version of Access installed (at the win98 >location). I found what I think is the offending reference (to a file >named cnfgprt.ocx). We're going to remove it then recompile the app and >see if it runs. I think that ocx is some NT service pack file but why >it's referenced here is a mystery. > >Jim DeMarco From rl_stewart at highstream.net Tue Mar 2 12:12:37 2004 From: rl_stewart at highstream.net (Robert L. Stewart) Date: Tue, 02 Mar 2004 12:12:37 -0600 Subject: [AccessD] Re: Create scripts: CreateTable? In-Reply-To: <200403021659.i22GxSM09668@databaseadvisors.com> Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20040302121159.02a64ee0@pop3.highstream.net> Steve, I believe he was asking about a way of doing it in Access, like the way SQL Server can do it. Robert At 10:59 AM 3/2/2004 -0600, you wrote: >Date: Tue, 2 Mar 2004 10:40:58 -0500 >From: "Developer" >Subject: RE: [AccessD] Create scripts: CreateTable? >To: "'Access Developers discussion and problem solving'" > >Message-ID: <000501c4006c$c5294260$7001a8c0 at COA3> >Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" > >There is absolutely something like it, in MS-SQL 7.0 or 2000 (it's >likely in 6.5 too, I just don't remember). In Enterprise Manager >(2000), you right click on the development database, then "All Tasks", >"Generate SQL Script...". Select any objects you want scripted >(including sp's, views, etc.) and EM will generate a text file you can >run in Query Analyzer on the production server. I use this all the time >to develop one server and deploy on another. If you are quicker at >Access tables, you may want to do your tables there, use the SQL upsize >wizard, then generate the script (watch for data-type conversion quirks, >however, going from Access to SQL with the wizard). Books Online will >give all the details for script generation. > >Hth >Steve From DWUTKA at marlow.com Tue Mar 2 12:22:23 2004 From: DWUTKA at marlow.com (DWUTKA at marlow.com) Date: Tue, 2 Mar 2004 12:22:23 -0600 Subject: [AccessD] Archives - no scroll bar Message-ID: <2F8793082E00D4119A1700B0D0216BF802227919@main2.marlow.com> Not on the archives on my site. Just checked, and the scroll bars were there. Drew -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Bobby Heid Sent: Tuesday, March 02, 2004 7:52 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: [AccessD] Archives - no scroll bar Hey all, I was searching the archives for something and it had a lot of hits. But since there was no scroll bar, I had to press the tab key to move to each entry. I could not page down or use the mouse wheel either. This is in IE 6.0.28, windows 2k. Is this by design? Thanks, Bobby -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From Bryan_Carbonnell at cbc.ca Tue Mar 2 12:32:20 2004 From: Bryan_Carbonnell at cbc.ca (Bryan Carbonnell) Date: Tue, 02 Mar 2004 13:32:20 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Archives - no scroll bar Message-ID: Not on databaseadvisors.com either. The archives there are not searchable yet. Bobby, where did you search from? Bryan Carbonnell bryan_carbonnell at cbc.ca >>> DWUTKA at marlow.com 02-Mar-04 1:22:23 PM >>> Not on the archives on my site. Just checked, and the scroll bars were there. Drew -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Bobby Heid Sent: Tuesday, March 02, 2004 7:52 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: [AccessD] Archives - no scroll bar Hey all, I was searching the archives for something and it had a lot of hits. But since there was no scroll bar, I had to press the tab key to move to each entry. I could not page down or use the mouse wheel either. This is in IE 6.0.28, windows 2k. Is this by design? Thanks, Bobby From bheid at appdevgrp.com Tue Mar 2 13:48:14 2004 From: bheid at appdevgrp.com (Bobby Heid) Date: Tue, 2 Mar 2004 14:48:14 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Archives - no scroll bar In-Reply-To: <916187228923D311A6FE00A0CC3FAA307B7772@ADGSERVER> Message-ID: <916187228923D311A6FE00A0CC3FAA305BB2C0@ADGSERVER> Hi Bryan, I went to http://www.databaseadvisors.com and clicked on the archive link on the left side of the screen. I entered my search term at: http://www.databaseadvisors.com/archive/archive.htm I then entered my search term and clicked on the little "Go" button. This takes me to the AccessD Archives with a howling wolf in the upper left hand corner. Still no scrollbars this time either. Thanks, Bobby -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Bryan Carbonnell Sent: Tuesday, March 02, 2004 1:32 PM To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: RE: [AccessD] Archives - no scroll bar Not on databaseadvisors.com either. The archives there are not searchable yet. Bobby, where did you search from? Bryan Carbonnell bryan_carbonnell at cbc.ca >>> DWUTKA at marlow.com 02-Mar-04 1:22:23 PM >>> Not on the archives on my site. Just checked, and the scroll bars were there. Drew -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Bobby Heid Sent: Tuesday, March 02, 2004 7:52 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: [AccessD] Archives - no scroll bar Hey all, I was searching the archives for something and it had a lot of hits. But since there was no scroll bar, I had to press the tab key to move to each entry. I could not page down or use the mouse wheel either. This is in IE 6.0.28, windows 2k. Is this by design? Thanks, Bobby -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com Tue Mar 2 13:52:14 2004 From: jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com (John W. Colby) Date: Tue, 2 Mar 2004 14:52:14 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Importing (or linking to) Paradox files In-Reply-To: <007101c3fdb9$d5197ba0$dd2f0a44@bcsext6137> Message-ID: The client sent me his copy of Paradox (he's moving to Access from Paradox so he doesn't use it anymore). Install that and voila, Access can read the db files. It seems that jet uses the BDE if it is available. Problem Solved. John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Dave Sharpe Sent: Saturday, February 28, 2004 12:15 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Importing (or linking to) Paradox files John Would it help if You had Paradox ? http://www.pricewatch.com/ shows a couple of vendors selling WordPerfect Office Pro verion 11 ( that seens to be the most recent ) for only $18.00 ----- Original Message ----- From: "John W. Colby" To: "Access Developers discussion and problem solving" Sent: Saturday, February 28, 2004 12:00 AM Subject: RE: [AccessD] Importing (or linking to) Paradox files That may very well be it. I asked specifically only for the .db files because he sent me a hundred files for just 3 tables. John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Steven W. Erbach Sent: Friday, February 27, 2004 10:09 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Importing (or linking to) Paradox files John, >> My question is are there versions of paradox files that Access can understand these but not those? Are there various drivers that need to be downloaded or something? << Since Borland stopped development of the Borland Database Engine (BDE) some time ago I doubt that there would be new table drivers. The last version was 5.1, I believe, in 1999! Paradox table formats have changed over the years, but I don't think there were any changes after version 7. Are there supposed to be any Memo fields in the Paradox tables? Paradox is a file-based database and Memo fields are stored in an .MB file separate from the .DB file. However, if your customer only sent you the .DB files that may be the problem. Paradox spawns off a whole mess of associated files for each table depending on how many indexes you create: .DB, .MB, .PX (primary key), and "secondary" indexes take up pairs of files: .XG0 and .YG0 and a whole slew of .XGx and .YGx files, one pair for each index. Maybe your client didn't send you all the files that go with each table's "family". If you'd like I could take a stab at a couple of your problem .DB files. I have Paradox 9, 8, and 7 as well as Access 97, 2000, and XP. Regards, Steve Erbach Scientific Marketing Neenah, WI 920-969-0504 "Without men, civilization would last until the oil needed changing." - Fred Reed From bchacc at san.rr.com Tue Mar 2 14:17:40 2004 From: bchacc at san.rr.com (Rocky Smolin - Beach Access Software) Date: Tue, 2 Mar 2004 12:17:40 -0800 Subject: [AccessD] A2K MDE Runtime Reference problem - URGENT References: <22F1CCD5171D17419CB37FEEE09D5F990173FDFF@TTNEXCHSRV1.hshhp.com> Message-ID: <017901c40093$69ccabb0$6801a8c0@HAL9002> I could get my programmer's license revoked. Rocky ----- Original Message ----- From: "Jim DeMarco" To: "Access Developers discussion and problem solving" Sent: Tuesday, March 02, 2004 9:48 AM Subject: RE: [AccessD] A2K MDE Runtime Reference problem - URGENT > Ouch!! Duly reprimanded! > > Jim > > -----Original Message----- > From: Gustav Brock [mailto:gustav at cactus.dk] > Sent: Tuesday, March 02, 2004 11:12 AM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: Re: [AccessD] A2K MDE Runtime Reference problem - URGENT > > > Hi Rocky and Jim > > You are a nice couple looking for trouble! > > Checking references at random or not at all is not a recommendable > road. You should include that as a mandatory step when you finish your > work together with version numbering, (de)compiling, compacting, > archiving, documenting, modifying install routines etc. > > /gustav > > > > Jim: > > > I've had extra references creep into my apps and I don't know where they > > came from. So now, from time to time, if I can remember, I check the > > references at random to see what's there. > > > Rocky > > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > From DWUTKA at marlow.com Tue Mar 2 17:20:02 2004 From: DWUTKA at marlow.com (DWUTKA at marlow.com) Date: Tue, 2 Mar 2004 17:20:02 -0600 Subject: [AccessD] Archives - no scroll bar Message-ID: <2F8793082E00D4119A1700B0D0216BF80222791E@main2.marlow.com> Bobby, try going directly to the searchable archives. http://www.wolfwares.com/AccessD Do your search there. If you still have no scroll bars, let me know. If you do have them, then we need to let Jim Lawrence know. He may have used a script, that is opening my site in a new window, that doesn't have a flag set for scrollbars. Drew -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Bobby Heid Sent: Tuesday, March 02, 2004 1:48 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: [AccessD] Archives - no scroll bar Hi Bryan, I went to http://www.databaseadvisors.com and clicked on the archive link on the left side of the screen. I entered my search term at: http://www.databaseadvisors.com/archive/archive.htm I then entered my search term and clicked on the little "Go" button. This takes me to the AccessD Archives with a howling wolf in the upper left hand corner. Still no scrollbars this time either. Thanks, Bobby -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Bryan Carbonnell Sent: Tuesday, March 02, 2004 1:32 PM To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: RE: [AccessD] Archives - no scroll bar Not on databaseadvisors.com either. The archives there are not searchable yet. Bobby, where did you search from? Bryan Carbonnell bryan_carbonnell at cbc.ca >>> DWUTKA at marlow.com 02-Mar-04 1:22:23 PM >>> Not on the archives on my site. Just checked, and the scroll bars were there. Drew -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Bobby Heid Sent: Tuesday, March 02, 2004 7:52 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: [AccessD] Archives - no scroll bar Hey all, I was searching the archives for something and it had a lot of hits. But since there was no scroll bar, I had to press the tab key to move to each entry. I could not page down or use the mouse wheel either. This is in IE 6.0.28, windows 2k. Is this by design? Thanks, Bobby -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From DWUTKA at marlow.com Tue Mar 2 17:31:33 2004 From: DWUTKA at marlow.com (DWUTKA at marlow.com) Date: Tue, 2 Mar 2004 17:31:33 -0600 Subject: [AccessD] Looking for Calander App that would interact with A ccess Message-ID: <2F8793082E00D4119A1700B0D0216BF80222791F@main2.marlow.com> Take a look at MiniCalendar 3.0, on my site. Look at the cycle mode. It's not a complete app, just a 'form' add-in. However, it's relatively easy to integrate into another access app. (Warning, if you are using A2k or up, hold the shift key when opening, and kill the AutoExec macro when you get the chance. (extra fluff involved that only works right in A97...only there in the startup though....) Drew -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of John Skolits Sent: Tuesday, March 02, 2004 8:33 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: [AccessD] Looking for Calander App that would interact with Access Anyone see a good Calendar App that allows people to schedule information for a particular customer and link that customer to an Access database. In this way, a dispatcher can use the calendar to schedule appointments and then print customer database info for a repair person before they go to the customers location. Thanks, John Skolits -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From DWUTKA at marlow.com Tue Mar 2 17:36:03 2004 From: DWUTKA at marlow.com (DWUTKA at marlow.com) Date: Tue, 2 Mar 2004 17:36:03 -0600 Subject: [AccessD] A2K MDE Runtime Reference problem - URGENT Message-ID: <2F8793082E00D4119A1700B0D0216BF802227922@main2.marlow.com> You were actually licensed? LOL Drew -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Rocky Smolin - Beach Access Software Sent: Tuesday, March 02, 2004 2:18 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] A2K MDE Runtime Reference problem - URGENT I could get my programmer's license revoked. Rocky ----- Original Message ----- From: "Jim DeMarco" To: "Access Developers discussion and problem solving" Sent: Tuesday, March 02, 2004 9:48 AM Subject: RE: [AccessD] A2K MDE Runtime Reference problem - URGENT > Ouch!! Duly reprimanded! > > Jim > > -----Original Message----- > From: Gustav Brock [mailto:gustav at cactus.dk] > Sent: Tuesday, March 02, 2004 11:12 AM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: Re: [AccessD] A2K MDE Runtime Reference problem - URGENT > > > Hi Rocky and Jim > > You are a nice couple looking for trouble! > > Checking references at random or not at all is not a recommendable > road. You should include that as a mandatory step when you finish your > work together with version numbering, (de)compiling, compacting, > archiving, documenting, modifying install routines etc. > > /gustav > > > > Jim: > > > I've had extra references creep into my apps and I don't know where they > > came from. So now, from time to time, if I can remember, I check the > > references at random to see what's there. > > > Rocky > > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From Developer at UltraDNT.com Tue Mar 2 18:18:25 2004 From: Developer at UltraDNT.com (Developer) Date: Tue, 2 Mar 2004 19:18:25 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Re: Create scripts: CreateTable? In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.2.20040302121159.02a64ee0@pop3.highstream.net> Message-ID: <001c01c400b5$0e93e2f0$7001a8c0@COA3> Robert: I thought that at first, but if that was the case, why not just send the client the empty .mdb? Communication is key ... Lol Steve -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Robert L. Stewart Sent: Tuesday, March 02, 2004 1:13 PM To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: [AccessD] Re: Create scripts: CreateTable? Steve, I believe he was asking about a way of doing it in Access, like the way SQL Server can do it. Robert At 10:59 AM 3/2/2004 -0600, you wrote: >Date: Tue, 2 Mar 2004 10:40:58 -0500 >From: "Developer" >Subject: RE: [AccessD] Create scripts: CreateTable? >To: "'Access Developers discussion and problem solving'" > >Message-ID: <000501c4006c$c5294260$7001a8c0 at COA3> >Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" > >There is absolutely something like it, in MS-SQL 7.0 or 2000 (it's >likely in 6.5 too, I just don't remember). In Enterprise Manager >(2000), you right click on the development database, then "All Tasks", >"Generate SQL Script...". Select any objects you want scripted >(including sp's, views, etc.) and EM will generate a text file you can >run in Query Analyzer on the production server. I use this all the >time to develop one server and deploy on another. If you are quicker >at Access tables, you may want to do your tables there, use the SQL >upsize wizard, then generate the script (watch for data-type conversion >quirks, however, going from Access to SQL with the wizard). Books >Online will give all the details for script generation. > >Hth >Steve -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From carbonnb at sympatico.ca Tue Mar 2 19:42:03 2004 From: carbonnb at sympatico.ca (Bryan Carbonnell) Date: Tue, 02 Mar 2004 20:42:03 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Archives - no scroll bar In-Reply-To: <916187228923D311A6FE00A0CC3FAA305BB2C0@ADGSERVER> References: <916187228923D311A6FE00A0CC3FAA307B7772@ADGSERVER> Message-ID: <4044F19B.4657.EF8332@localhost> On 2 Mar 2004 at 14:48, Bobby Heid wrote: > I went to http://www.databaseadvisors.com and clicked on the archive > link on the left side of the screen. > > I entered my search term at: > http://www.databaseadvisors.com/archive/archive.htm > > I then entered my search term and clicked on the little "Go" button. > > This takes me to the AccessD Archives with a howling wolf in the upper > left hand corner. Still no scrollbars this time either. That's Drew's archives at Wolfwares.com. I have tried this with IE5.5 and Firefox 0.8 on Win2K; IE6, Firefox 0.8 and Opera 7.03 on WinXPP and I get the scroll bars. Gotta ask the obvious, is the window partially out of the viewable desktop? That or your IE install is hosed is all that I can think of. -- Bryan Carbonnell - carbonnb at sympatico.ca You can go anywhere you want if you look serious and carry a clipboard. From stuart at lexacorp.com.pg Tue Mar 2 19:51:02 2004 From: stuart at lexacorp.com.pg (Stuart McLachlan) Date: Wed, 03 Mar 2004 11:51:02 +1000 Subject: [AccessD] Archives - no scroll bar In-Reply-To: <4044F19B.4657.EF8332@localhost> References: <916187228923D311A6FE00A0CC3FAA305BB2C0@ADGSERVER> Message-ID: <4045C6A6.18632.EAB256@localhost> On 2 Mar 2004 at 20:42, Bryan Carbonnell wrote: > On 2 Mar 2004 at 14:48, Bobby Heid wrote: > > > I went to http://www.databaseadvisors.com and clicked on the archive > > link on the left side of the screen. > > > > I entered my search term at: > > http://www.databaseadvisors.com/archive/archive.htm > > > > I then entered my search term and clicked on the little "Go" button. > > > > This takes me to the AccessD Archives with a howling wolf in the upper > > left hand corner. Still no scrollbars this time either. > > That's Drew's archives at Wolfwares.com. > > I have tried this with IE5.5 and Firefox 0.8 on Win2K; IE6, Firefox > 0.8 and Opera 7.03 on WinXPP and I get the scroll bars. > Works fine with IE6 on W2KPro. -- Lexacorp Ltd http://www.lexacorp.com.pg Information Technology Consultancy, Software Development,System Support. From john at winhaven.net Tue Mar 2 21:00:04 2004 From: john at winhaven.net (John Bartow) Date: Tue, 2 Mar 2004 21:00:04 -0600 Subject: [AccessD] Drew - Age of the Archives? Message-ID: Drew, Someone recently asked me how long I have been on this list. The only point of reference I could think of was about two years before I sent all my archives to Drew! So, Do you know when you put the archives together on your site? John "My memory is 40 years ahead of it time (I have a like I'm over 80)" Bartow From gustav at cactus.dk Wed Mar 3 03:13:26 2004 From: gustav at cactus.dk (Gustav Brock) Date: Wed, 3 Mar 2004 10:13:26 +0100 Subject: [AccessD] Archives - no scroll bar In-Reply-To: <916187228923D311A6FE00A0CC3FAA305BB2C0@ADGSERVER> References: <916187228923D311A6FE00A0CC3FAA305BB2C0@ADGSERVER> Message-ID: <1133885426.20040303101326@cactus.dk> Hi Bobby > I then entered my search term and clicked on the little "Go" button. You need to press Enter. (That's a secret of the community; erase this when read) NO ARCHIVE /gustav From ayishakca at yahoo.ca Wed Mar 3 03:27:49 2004 From: ayishakca at yahoo.ca (Ayisha) Date: Wed, 3 Mar 2004 12:27:49 +0300 Subject: [AccessD] Drew - Age of the Archives? References: Message-ID: <000901c40101$cf90b9a0$a2d15dd4@ali> Is there any way that i can open a linked form in background. Any Idea???? Ayisha From my.lists at verizon.net Wed Mar 3 04:23:36 2004 From: my.lists at verizon.net (Francisco H Tapia) Date: Wed, 03 Mar 2004 02:23:36 -0800 Subject: [AccessD] Continous form based off a recordset Message-ID: <4045B228.3090403@verizon.net> bottom line (SqlServer2000 + Access 2000 ADP) have a recordset in an ADP.. the data is from SqlServer and i've been looking at the code all day (march 2) till now Mar3rd at 2am.... it's a sproc that joins across a udf and some subqueries... bottom line Access doesn't see this as an updatable recordset... so I created a 2nd sproc that takes these parameters and dumps it to a #tempTable however this sproc is still NOT updatable :( wtf! ... so.. I dimmed my variable RS as an adorecordset but still I get issues because even if I create a disconnected RS, it cannot be bound to the form unless I push the activeconnection property to it which then gives me other issues well it's 230am (practically) and i'm probably gonna crash now due to exhaustion but if anyone can make sense and wants to drop me a line, thanks I appreciate it... :D -- -Francisco From d.dick at uws.edu.au Wed Mar 3 05:16:44 2004 From: d.dick at uws.edu.au (Darren DICK) Date: Wed, 3 Mar 2004 22:16:44 +1100 Subject: [AccessD] A2K: Filtering a pick list Message-ID: <000e01c40111$3cf382c0$42669a89@DDICK> Hello all I have a very large list box that lists all the products (in this case chairs) in a db Each chair in tblChairs has many fields but in this case the ones I am interested in are ChairID, SupplierID, BackTypeID, RangeID, StyleID So on the same form as this very large list box of chairs, I have combo boxes - yep you guessed it - 4 of 'em - cboSuppliers, cboBackTypes, cboRanges, cboStyleID I wanna filter the large list box based on the values in all or any combination of the combo boxes. EG Say supplier 5 = Acme Manufacturing and in the whole dB there are 100 chairs made by Acme Say of that 100 that Acme produce 38 of em have a Backtype of 2 (as in Low =1 medium=2 High=3 etc) I would want the large list to instantly decrease to 100 items if I selected Acme from the Suppliers combo. Then I would want that list to further decreas to 38 when I choose Medium back PSUEDo = show me evert chair in the dB with supplier ID = 5 and BackType = 2 etc etc and then somehow accept the various combinations of combo choices. Is there a clever or easy way of doing this without writing a zillion sql's then selecting the correct one and making it the listbox row source? Many thanks in advance Darren From JohnSkolits at CorporateDataDesign.com Wed Mar 3 05:55:54 2004 From: JohnSkolits at CorporateDataDesign.com (John Skolits) Date: Wed, 3 Mar 2004 06:55:54 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Looking for Calander App that would interact with Access In-Reply-To: <2F8793082E00D4119A1700B0D0216BF80222791F@main2.marlow.com> Message-ID: <001001c40116$7bc19910$0f01a8c0@cddserver2> I'll take a look. Thanks! -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of DWUTKA at marlow.com Sent: Tuesday, March 02, 2004 6:32 PM To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: RE: [AccessD] Looking for Calander App that would interact with Access Take a look at MiniCalendar 3.0, on my site. Look at the cycle mode. It's not a complete app, just a 'form' add-in. However, it's relatively easy to integrate into another access app. (Warning, if you are using A2k or up, hold the shift key when opening, and kill the AutoExec macro when you get the chance. (extra fluff involved that only works right in A97...only there in the startup though....) Drew -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of John Skolits Sent: Tuesday, March 02, 2004 8:33 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: [AccessD] Looking for Calander App that would interact with Access Anyone see a good Calendar App that allows people to schedule information for a particular customer and link that customer to an Access database. In this way, a dispatcher can use the calendar to schedule appointments and then print customer database info for a repair person before they go to the customers location. Thanks, John Skolits -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From JohnSkolits at CorporateDataDesign.com Wed Mar 3 06:03:10 2004 From: JohnSkolits at CorporateDataDesign.com (John Skolits) Date: Wed, 3 Mar 2004 07:03:10 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Looking for Calander App that would interact with Access In-Reply-To: <2F8793082E00D4119A1700B0D0216BF80222791F@main2.marlow.com> Message-ID: <001501c40117$7f8f2660$0f01a8c0@cddserver2> Hey Drew, Can't find your site address. Thanks. -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of DWUTKA at marlow.com Sent: Tuesday, March 02, 2004 6:32 PM To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: RE: [AccessD] Looking for Calander App that would interact with Access Take a look at MiniCalendar 3.0, on my site. Look at the cycle mode. It's not a complete app, just a 'form' add-in. However, it's relatively easy to integrate into another access app. (Warning, if you are using A2k or up, hold the shift key when opening, and kill the AutoExec macro when you get the chance. (extra fluff involved that only works right in A97...only there in the startup though....) Drew -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of John Skolits Sent: Tuesday, March 02, 2004 8:33 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: [AccessD] Looking for Calander App that would interact with Access Anyone see a good Calendar App that allows people to schedule information for a particular customer and link that customer to an Access database. In this way, a dispatcher can use the calendar to schedule appointments and then print customer database info for a repair person before they go to the customers location. Thanks, John Skolits -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From d.dick at uws.edu.au Wed Mar 3 06:09:12 2004 From: d.dick at uws.edu.au (Darren DICK) Date: Wed, 3 Mar 2004 23:09:12 +1100 Subject: [AccessD] Looking for Calander App that would interact with Access References: <001501c40117$7f8f2660$0f01a8c0@cddserver2> Message-ID: <00cd01c40118$67a53660$42669a89@DDICK> www.wolfwares.com ----- Original Message ----- From: "John Skolits" To: "'Access Developers discussion and problem solving'" Sent: Wednesday, March 03, 2004 11:03 PM Subject: RE: [AccessD] Looking for Calander App that would interact with Access > Hey Drew, > > Can't find your site address. > > Thanks. > > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of > DWUTKA at marlow.com > Sent: Tuesday, March 02, 2004 6:32 PM > To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com > Subject: RE: [AccessD] Looking for Calander App that would interact with > Access > > > Take a look at MiniCalendar 3.0, on my site. Look at the cycle mode. > It's not a complete app, just a 'form' add-in. However, it's relatively > easy to integrate into another access app. (Warning, if you are using > A2k or up, hold the shift key when opening, and kill the AutoExec macro > when you get the chance. (extra fluff involved that only works right in > A97...only there in the startup though....) > > Drew > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of John Skolits > Sent: Tuesday, March 02, 2004 8:33 AM > To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' > Subject: [AccessD] Looking for Calander App that would interact with > Access > > > > Anyone see a good Calendar App that allows people to schedule > information for a particular customer and link that customer to an > Access database. > In this way, a dispatcher can use the calendar to schedule appointments > and then print customer database info for a repair person before they go > to the customers location. > > Thanks, > > John Skolits > > > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From stuart at lexacorp.com.pg Wed Mar 3 06:14:29 2004 From: stuart at lexacorp.com.pg (Stuart McLachlan) Date: Wed, 03 Mar 2004 22:14:29 +1000 Subject: [AccessD] A2K: Filtering a pick list In-Reply-To: <000e01c40111$3cf382c0$42669a89@DDICK> Message-ID: <404658C5.18582.3257592@localhost> On 3 Mar 2004 at 22:16, Darren DICK wrote: > Hello all > I have a very large list box that lists all the products (in this case chairs) in a db > Each chair in tblChairs has many fields but in this case the ones I am interested > in are ChairID, SupplierID, BackTypeID, RangeID, StyleID > > So on the same form as this very large list box of chairs, I have combo boxes - > yep you guessed it - 4 of 'em - cboSuppliers, cboBackTypes, cboRanges, cboStyleID > > I wanna filter the large list box based on the values in all or any combination of the combo boxes. > > EG > Say supplier 5 = Acme Manufacturing and in the whole dB there are 100 chairs made by Acme > Say of that 100 that Acme produce 38 of em have a Backtype of 2 (as in Low =1 medium=2 High=3 etc) > > I would want the large list to instantly decrease to 100 items if I selected Acme from the Suppliers combo. > Then I would want that list to further decreas to 38 when I choose Medium back > PSUEDo = show me evert chair in the dB with supplier ID = 5 and BackType = 2 > etc etc and then somehow accept the various combinations of combo choices. > > Is there a clever or easy way of doing this without writing a zillion sql's then selecting the correct one > and making it the listbox row source? > Here's one way off the top of my head: In the On_Exit of each combo call a function RebuildList() Function RebuildList() as long Dim strSQL as String If cboSuppliers.ListIndex > -1 then strSQL = "SupplierID = " & cboSuppliers End if If cboBackType.ListIndex > -1 then if len(strSQL) > 0 then strSQL = StrSQL & " AND " strSQL = strSQL & "BackTypeID = " & cboBackTypes End if If cboRanges.ListIndex > -1 then if len(strSQL) > 0 then strSQL = StrSQL & " AND " strSQL = "RangeID = " & cboRanges End if If cboStyles.ListIndex > -1 then if len(strSQL) > 0 then strSQL = StrSQL & " AND " strSQL = "StyleID = " & cboStyles End if If len(strSQL)> 0 then strSQL = "WHERE " & strSQL strSQL = "Select ChairID, SupplierID, BackTypeID, RangeID, StyleID" _ & " tblChairs " & strSQL lstChairs.Recordsource = strSQL lstChairs.Requery -- Lexacorp Ltd http://www.lexacorp.com.pg Information Technology Consultancy, Software Development,System Support. From stuart at lexacorp.com.pg Wed Mar 3 06:15:41 2004 From: stuart at lexacorp.com.pg (Stuart McLachlan) Date: Wed, 03 Mar 2004 22:15:41 +1000 Subject: [AccessD] Looking for Calander App that would interact with Access In-Reply-To: <001501c40117$7f8f2660$0f01a8c0@cddserver2> References: <2F8793082E00D4119A1700B0D0216BF80222791F@main2.marlow.com> Message-ID: <4046590D.18165.3268EC2@localhost> On 3 Mar 2004 at 7:03, John Skolits wrote: > Hey Drew, > > Can't find your site address. > He's at http://www.wolfwares.com -- Lexacorp Ltd http://www.lexacorp.com.pg Information Technology Consultancy, Software Development,System Support. From stuart at lexacorp.com.pg Wed Mar 3 06:19:41 2004 From: stuart at lexacorp.com.pg (Stuart McLachlan) Date: Wed, 03 Mar 2004 22:19:41 +1000 Subject: [AccessD] A2K: Filtering a pick list In-Reply-To: <000e01c40111$3cf382c0$42669a89@DDICK> Message-ID: <404659FD.15100.32A39B9@localhost> Resending this since my subsequent post has appeared but not this one from the first time I sent it. On 3 Mar 2004 at 22:16, Darren DICK wrote: > Hello all > I have a very large list box that lists all the products (in this case chairs) in a db > Each chair in tblChairs has many fields but in this case the ones I am interested > in are ChairID, SupplierID, BackTypeID, RangeID, StyleID > > So on the same form as this very large list box of chairs, I have combo boxes - > yep you guessed it - 4 of 'em - cboSuppliers, cboBackTypes, cboRanges, cboStyleID > > I wanna filter the large list box based on the values in all or any combination of the combo boxes. > > EG > Say supplier 5 = Acme Manufacturing and in the whole dB there are 100 chairs made by Acme > Say of that 100 that Acme produce 38 of em have a Backtype of 2 (as in Low =1 medium=2 High=3 etc) > > I would want the large list to instantly decrease to 100 items if I selected Acme from the Suppliers combo. > Then I would want that list to further decreas to 38 when I choose Medium back > PSUEDo = show me evert chair in the dB with supplier ID = 5 and BackType = 2 > etc etc and then somehow accept the various combinations of combo choices. > > Is there a clever or easy way of doing this without writing a zillion sql's then selecting the correct one > and making it the listbox row source? > Here's one way off the top of my head: In the On_Exit of each combo call a function RebuildList() Function RebuildList() as long Dim strSQL as String If cboSuppliers.ListIndex > -1 then strSQL = "SupplierID = " & cboSuppliers End if If cboBackType.ListIndex > -1 then if len(strSQL) > 0 then strSQL = StrSQL & " AND " strSQL = strSQL & "BackTypeID = " & cboBackTypes End if If cboRanges.ListIndex > -1 then if len(strSQL) > 0 then strSQL = StrSQL & " AND " strSQL = "RangeID = " & cboRanges End if If cboStyles.ListIndex > -1 then if len(strSQL) > 0 then strSQL = StrSQL & " AND " strSQL = "StyleID = " & cboStyles End if If len(strSQL)> 0 then strSQL = "WHERE " & strSQL strSQL = "Select ChairID, SupplierID, BackTypeID, RangeID, StyleID" _ & " tblChairs " & strSQL lstChairs.Recordsource = strSQL lstChairs.Requery -- Lexacorp Ltd http://www.lexacorp.com.pg Information Technology Consultancy, Software Development,System Support. From accessd667 at yahoo.com Wed Mar 3 07:13:40 2004 From: accessd667 at yahoo.com (S D) Date: Wed, 3 Mar 2004 05:13:40 -0800 (PST) Subject: [AccessD] Re: Create scripts: CreateTable? In-Reply-To: <001c01c400b5$0e93e2f0$7001a8c0@COA3> Message-ID: <20040303131340.30199.qmail@web61104.mail.yahoo.com> thnx for the replies. History: I work for company A and I'm stationed at Customer B. I'm hired by Customer B to develop stuff. Customer B has also hired company C to implement/migrate changes. Company C has a rule that they ONLY use scripts to implement/migrate changes that can be run by 'ZERO-KNOWLEDGE-USERS'!! That is why I need a piece of code to generate CreateTable scripts. I need this piece of code in Access 2000. if anybody neesd any more info don't hesitate to ask. Regards, Sander Developer wrote: Robert: I thought that at first, but if that was the case, why not just send the client the empty .mdb? Communication is key ... Lol Steve -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Robert L. Stewart Sent: Tuesday, March 02, 2004 1:13 PM To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: [AccessD] Re: Create scripts: CreateTable? Steve, I believe he was asking about a way of doing it in Access, like the way SQL Server can do it. Robert At 10:59 AM 3/2/2004 -0600, you wrote: >Date: Tue, 2 Mar 2004 10:40:58 -0500 >From: "Developer" >Subject: RE: [AccessD] Create scripts: CreateTable? >To: "'Access Developers discussion and problem solving'" > >Message-ID: <000501c4006c$c5294260$7001a8c0 at COA3> >Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" > >There is absolutely something like it, in MS-SQL 7.0 or 2000 (it's >likely in 6.5 too, I just don't remember). In Enterprise Manager >(2000), you right click on the development database, then "All Tasks", >"Generate SQL Script...". Select any objects you want scripted >(including sp's, views, etc.) and EM will generate a text file you can >run in Query Analyzer on the production server. I use this all the >time to develop one server and deploy on another. If you are quicker >at Access tables, you may want to do your tables there, use the SQL >upsize wizard, then generate the script (watch for data-type conversion >quirks, however, going from Access to SQL with the wizard). Books >Online will give all the details for script generation. > >Hth >Steve -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com --------------------------------- Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Search - Find what you?re looking for faster. From jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com Wed Mar 3 07:19:00 2004 From: jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com (John W. Colby) Date: Wed, 3 Mar 2004 08:19:00 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] A2K: Filtering a pick list In-Reply-To: <000e01c40111$3cf382c0$42669a89@DDICK> Message-ID: I have a class for each control on the form. Each data class has a "dependent control" collection that I can tell the class in the form's OnOpen "This control (combos, lists and subforms mostly) is dependent on you". Thus when any control changes, it's Afterupdate event checks the DependentControl collection and calls a requery method of that dependent class (anything in the collection). That classes' Requery method requeries its control, then iterates ITS dependent control collection calling the requery method of all of ITs dependent controls. Thus the requery of a parent object ripples down the dependent object chain automatically requerying all dependent children / grandchildren etc. For YOUR purposes (assuming you don't have a framework), each control's AfterUpdate would need to requery that one control. That one control (the combo) would then reference all those other controls in it's SQL or query. In general, that is how it's done. John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Darren DICK Sent: Wednesday, March 03, 2004 6:17 AM To: AccessD List Subject: [AccessD] A2K: Filtering a pick list Hello all I have a very large list box that lists all the products (in this case chairs) in a db Each chair in tblChairs has many fields but in this case the ones I am interested in are ChairID, SupplierID, BackTypeID, RangeID, StyleID So on the same form as this very large list box of chairs, I have combo boxes - yep you guessed it - 4 of 'em - cboSuppliers, cboBackTypes, cboRanges, cboStyleID I wanna filter the large list box based on the values in all or any combination of the combo boxes. EG Say supplier 5 = Acme Manufacturing and in the whole dB there are 100 chairs made by Acme Say of that 100 that Acme produce 38 of em have a Backtype of 2 (as in Low =1 medium=2 High=3 etc) I would want the large list to instantly decrease to 100 items if I selected Acme from the Suppliers combo. Then I would want that list to further decreas to 38 when I choose Medium back PSUEDo = show me evert chair in the dB with supplier ID = 5 and BackType = 2 etc etc and then somehow accept the various combinations of combo choices. Is there a clever or easy way of doing this without writing a zillion sql's then selecting the correct one and making it the listbox row source? Many thanks in advance Darren -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From HollisVJ at pgdp.usec.com Wed Mar 3 07:45:16 2004 From: HollisVJ at pgdp.usec.com (Hollis,Virginia) Date: Wed, 03 Mar 2004 07:45:16 -0600 Subject: [AccessD] Add All to List Message-ID: <618EB4D6DDCDD3119B0A00508B6FD37A0CB0D21D@cntexchange.pgdp.usec.com> How do you add All to List? This form contains 2 combo boxes on a main form. Selecting data shows data on a subform for the related combo box choices. I need to either have an All in the combo boxes or when the form opens, I would like them to be blank. I tried this code in the On Open of the main form, but it still opens to the first record with entries in both combo boxes. With Me .cboNCSANo = "" .cboProcedure = "" End With Virginia From gustav at cactus.dk Wed Mar 3 07:51:33 2004 From: gustav at cactus.dk (Gustav Brock) Date: Wed, 3 Mar 2004 14:51:33 +0100 Subject: [AccessD] Re: Create scripts: CreateTable? In-Reply-To: <20040303131340.30199.qmail@web61104.mail.yahoo.com> References: <20040303131340.30199.qmail@web61104.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <4020571870.20040303145133@cactus.dk> Hi Sander You still need to tell if the tables will exist in a Jet database or in SQL Server or somewhere else. /gustav > thnx for the replies. > History: > I work for company A and I'm stationed at Customer B. I'm hired by Customer B to develop stuff. Customer B has also hired company C to implement/migrate changes. Company C has a rule that they ONLY > use scripts to implement/migrate changes that can be run by 'ZERO-KNOWLEDGE-USERS'!! > That is why I need a piece of code to generate CreateTable scripts. I need this piece of code in Access 2000. > if anybody neesd any more info don't hesitate to ask. > Regards, > Sander > Developer wrote: > Robert: > I thought that at first, but if that was the case, why not just send the > client the empty .mdb? > Communication is key ... Lol > Steve > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Robert L. > Stewart > Sent: Tuesday, March 02, 2004 1:13 PM > To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com > Subject: [AccessD] Re: Create scripts: CreateTable? > Steve, > I believe he was asking about a way of doing it in Access, > like the way SQL Server can do it. From gustav at cactus.dk Wed Mar 3 08:01:09 2004 From: gustav at cactus.dk (Gustav Brock) Date: Wed, 3 Mar 2004 15:01:09 +0100 Subject: [AccessD] notes on mdb bloat In-Reply-To: <1047496262.8435.182.camel@sgsax-th4022c> References: <1047489135.8377.32.camel@sgsax-th4022c> <1128525026.20030312184542@cactus.dk> <1047496262.8435.182.camel@sgsax-th4022c> Message-ID: <3821148499.20040303150109@cactus.dk> Hi Seth et all In Garry Robinson's newsletter I noted this extremely interesting topic: SINGLE RECORD LOCKING, BLOAT AND CITRIX BUGS Did you know that the record-level locking option (menu Tools~Options~Advanced) that is used by Access 2000 onwards has an interesting twist. To achieve a single record lock, each record that is locked uses up all of an Access page in the mdb file. This page of data, most of which will probably be empty for records with only a few fields, consumes 4000 bytes. This space is later recovered when the database is compacted but if you have a database that seems to expand fast, this could be your culprit. For more on this database bloat and a possible cure for Access corruptions for Citrix head to this page. http://ewbi.blogs.com/develops/2004/01/access_corrupti.html and an other blog on the same topic http://dbforums.com/arch/213/2002/10/551337 Gary is here: http://www.vb123.com/ /gustav > I hadn't even thought of that. I tried it just now, and the resulting > mdb is 1.5MB. Still three times as big as the A97 version, but not as > big as the base A2K version. > The unicode comments make sense, I had forgotten about that, too. > Oh well, more interesting info from the developer front... > Seth > On Wed, 2003-03-12 at 11:45, Gustav Brock wrote: >> Hi Seth >> >> What happens if you "forward port" the A97 version to A2000? >> >> /gustav From Bryan_Carbonnell at cbc.ca Wed Mar 3 08:08:40 2004 From: Bryan_Carbonnell at cbc.ca (Bryan Carbonnell) Date: Wed, 03 Mar 2004 09:08:40 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Re: Create scripts: CreateTable? Message-ID: If the back end of the DBs are mdbs then it sure sounds like the BE Upgrader (http://www.databaseadvisors.com/downloads.htm) wil do the job. As long as the developer sets up the changes required, all the end user need do is open a database that has the BEU code run in the startup code of the FE. I have just about finished setting up the BEU to rename and restructure existing data for a new app that I am developing. Full Disclosure: I am one of the co-developers of the BEU Bryan Carbonnell bryan_carbonnell at cbc.ca >>> accessd667 at yahoo.com 03-Mar-04 8:13:40 AM >>> thnx for the replies. History: I work for company A and I'm stationed at Customer B. I'm hired by Customer B to develop stuff. Customer B has also hired company C to implement/migrate changes. Company C has a rule that they ONLY use scripts to implement/migrate changes that can be run by 'ZERO-KNOWLEDGE-USERS'!! That is why I need a piece of code to generate CreateTable scripts. I need this piece of code in Access 2000. if anybody neesd any more info don't hesitate to ask. Regards, Sander From john at winhaven.net Wed Mar 3 08:08:59 2004 From: john at winhaven.net (John Bartow) Date: Wed, 3 Mar 2004 08:08:59 -0600 Subject: [AccessD] Drew - Age of the Archives? In-Reply-To: <000901c40101$cf90b9a0$a2d15dd4@ali> Message-ID: Huh? This would seem to be the conversation of a long married couple. I ask a question and you respond with a question concerning a totally different subject area! :o) John PS: Just kidding, I've made the subject line mistake myself - quite often. -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Ayisha Sent: Wednesday, March 03, 2004 3:28 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Drew - Age of the Archives? Is there any way that i can open a linked form in background. Any Idea???? Ayisha -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From wdhindman at bellsouth.net Wed Mar 3 08:09:14 2004 From: wdhindman at bellsouth.net (William Hindman) Date: Wed, 3 Mar 2004 09:09:14 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Add All to List References: <618EB4D6DDCDD3119B0A00508B6FD37A0CB0D21D@cntexchange.pgdp.usec.com> Message-ID: <000d01c40129$1c3f3d90$6101a8c0@dejpolsys> Virginia ...use a UNION SELECT in the combo record source to add an ALL. ...example: SELECT DISTINCTROW Customers.Company, Customers.[Customer Number] FROM Customers UNION SELECT "","" FROM Customers ORDER BY Customers.Company; William Hindman "My idea of an agreeable person is a person who agrees with me." Disraeli ----- Original Message ----- From: "Hollis,Virginia" To: Sent: Wednesday, March 03, 2004 8:45 AM Subject: [AccessD] Add All to List > How do you add All to List? This form contains 2 combo boxes on a main form. > Selecting data shows data on a subform for the related combo box choices. > > I need to either have an All in the combo boxes or when the form opens, I > would like them to be blank. > > I tried this code in the On Open of the main form, but it still opens to > the first record with entries in both combo boxes. > > With Me > .cboNCSANo = "" > .cboProcedure = "" > End With > > Virginia > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > From ssharkins at bellsouth.net Wed Mar 3 08:12:37 2004 From: ssharkins at bellsouth.net (Susan Harkins) Date: Wed, 3 Mar 2004 09:12:37 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Add All to List In-Reply-To: <618EB4D6DDCDD3119B0A00508B6FD37A0CB0D21D@cntexchange.pgdp.usec.com> Message-ID: <20040303141235.KMDG1896.imf22aec.mail.bellsouth.net@SUSANONE> If you're using a SQL statement to fill the control, use this form SELECT whateveryou'resusing UNION SELECT "(ALL)" FROM samedatasource Susan H. - How do you add All to List? This form contains 2 combo boxes on a main form. Selecting data shows data on a subform for the related combo box choices. From bheid at appdevgrp.com Wed Mar 3 08:14:46 2004 From: bheid at appdevgrp.com (Bobby Heid) Date: Wed, 3 Mar 2004 09:14:46 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Archives - no scroll bar In-Reply-To: <916187228923D311A6FE00A0CC3FAA307B781B@ADGSERVER> Message-ID: <916187228923D311A6FE00A0CC3FAA305BB2C8@ADGSERVER> Works correctly when I go directly there. Thanks, Bobby -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of DWUTKA at marlow.com Sent: Tuesday, March 02, 2004 6:20 PM To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: RE: [AccessD] Archives - no scroll bar Bobby, try going directly to the searchable archives. http://www.wolfwares.com/AccessD Do your search there. If you still have no scroll bars, let me know. If you do have them, then we need to let Jim Lawrence know. He may have used a script, that is opening my site in a new window, that doesn't have a flag set for scrollbars. Drew -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Bobby Heid Sent: Tuesday, March 02, 2004 1:48 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: [AccessD] Archives - no scroll bar Hi Bryan, I went to http://www.databaseadvisors.com and clicked on the archive link on the left side of the screen. I entered my search term at: http://www.databaseadvisors.com/archive/archive.htm I then entered my search term and clicked on the little "Go" button. This takes me to the AccessD Archives with a howling wolf in the upper left hand corner. Still no scrollbars this time either. Thanks, Bobby -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Bryan Carbonnell Sent: Tuesday, March 02, 2004 1:32 PM To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: RE: [AccessD] Archives - no scroll bar Not on databaseadvisors.com either. The archives there are not searchable yet. Bobby, where did you search from? Bryan Carbonnell bryan_carbonnell at cbc.ca >>> DWUTKA at marlow.com 02-Mar-04 1:22:23 PM >>> Not on the archives on my site. Just checked, and the scroll bars were there. Drew -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Bobby Heid Sent: Tuesday, March 02, 2004 7:52 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: [AccessD] Archives - no scroll bar Hey all, I was searching the archives for something and it had a lot of hits. But since there was no scroll bar, I had to press the tab key to move to each entry. I could not page down or use the mouse wheel either. This is in IE 6.0.28, windows 2k. Is this by design? Thanks, Bobby -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From bheid at appdevgrp.com Wed Mar 3 08:17:41 2004 From: bheid at appdevgrp.com (Bobby Heid) Date: Wed, 3 Mar 2004 09:17:41 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Archives - no scroll bar In-Reply-To: <916187228923D311A6FE00A0CC3FAA307B7867@ADGSERVER> Message-ID: <916187228923D311A6FE00A0CC3FAA305BB2C9@ADGSERVER> I checked, all of the window is visible. An interesting thing is that the maximize window button is disabled. Looks like the window is sized to your screen resolution. My resolution is set at 1024 X 768. Thanks, Bobby -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Bryan Carbonnell Sent: Tuesday, March 02, 2004 8:42 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problemsolving Subject: RE: [AccessD] Archives - no scroll bar On 2 Mar 2004 at 14:48, Bobby Heid wrote: > I went to http://www.databaseadvisors.com and clicked on the archive > link on the left side of the screen. > > I entered my search term at: > http://www.databaseadvisors.com/archive/archive.htm > > I then entered my search term and clicked on the little "Go" button. > > This takes me to the AccessD Archives with a howling wolf in the upper > left hand corner. Still no scrollbars this time either. That's Drew's archives at Wolfwares.com. I have tried this with IE5.5 and Firefox 0.8 on Win2K; IE6, Firefox 0.8 and Opera 7.03 on WinXPP and I get the scroll bars. Gotta ask the obvious, is the window partially out of the viewable desktop? That or your IE install is hosed is all that I can think of. -- Bryan Carbonnell - carbonnb at sympatico.ca You can go anywhere you want if you look serious and carry a clipboard. -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From bheid at appdevgrp.com Wed Mar 3 08:18:47 2004 From: bheid at appdevgrp.com (Bobby Heid) Date: Wed, 3 Mar 2004 09:18:47 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Archives - no scroll bar In-Reply-To: <916187228923D311A6FE00A0CC3FAA307B7918@ADGSERVER> Message-ID: <916187228923D311A6FE00A0CC3FAA305BB2CA@ADGSERVER> LOL - Your pretty funny to be up so dam early! Actually, pressing enter from there did not work. But I won't tell! Bobby -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Gustav Brock Sent: Wednesday, March 03, 2004 4:13 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Archives - no scroll bar Hi Bobby > I then entered my search term and clicked on the little "Go" button. You need to press Enter. (That's a secret of the community; erase this when read) NO ARCHIVE /gustav -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From Bryan_Carbonnell at cbc.ca Wed Mar 3 08:41:09 2004 From: Bryan_Carbonnell at cbc.ca (Bryan Carbonnell) Date: Wed, 03 Mar 2004 09:41:09 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Archives - no scroll bar Message-ID: That's weird. I'm at 1024 x 768 as well and it doesn't do that for me. Do you have any sort of popup blocker running? Or something that maybe catches Javascript before it's run? I'm out of ideas. Bryan Carbonnell bryan_carbonnell at cbc.ca >>> bheid at appdevgrp.com 03-Mar-04 9:17:41 AM >>> I checked, all of the window is visible. An interesting thing is that the maximize window button is disabled. Looks like the window is sized to your screen resolution. My resolution is set at 1024 X 768. Thanks, Bobby From bheid at appdevgrp.com Wed Mar 3 08:54:12 2004 From: bheid at appdevgrp.com (Bobby Heid) Date: Wed, 3 Mar 2004 09:54:12 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Archives - no scroll bar In-Reply-To: <916187228923D311A6FE00A0CC3FAA307B79B2@ADGSERVER> Message-ID: <916187228923D311A6FE00A0CC3FAA305BB2CC@ADGSERVER> Now this is weird. I do use PC Mag's Cookie Cop. I disable it and call up the archives. It works! So I enable the IE Proxy setting in Cookie Cop. It still works. Then I enable Coolie Cop. And the web page still works correctly! I'm not sure what is going on. But thanks for all of the suggestions. Bobby -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Bryan Carbonnell Sent: Wednesday, March 03, 2004 9:41 AM To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: RE: [AccessD] Archives - no scroll bar That's weird. I'm at 1024 x 768 as well and it doesn't do that for me. Do you have any sort of popup blocker running? Or something that maybe catches Javascript before it's run? I'm out of ideas. Bryan Carbonnell bryan_carbonnell at cbc.ca >>> bheid at appdevgrp.com 03-Mar-04 9:17:41 AM >>> I checked, all of the window is visible. An interesting thing is that the maximize window button is disabled. Looks like the window is sized to your screen resolution. My resolution is set at 1024 X 768. Thanks, Bobby -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From gustav at cactus.dk Wed Mar 3 08:49:09 2004 From: gustav at cactus.dk (Gustav Brock) Date: Wed, 3 Mar 2004 15:49:09 +0100 Subject: [AccessD] Archives - no scroll bar In-Reply-To: <916187228923D311A6FE00A0CC3FAA305BB2CA@ADGSERVER> References: <916187228923D311A6FE00A0CC3FAA305BB2CA@ADGSERVER> Message-ID: <18624027629.20040303154909@cactus.dk> Hi Bobby > LOL - Your pretty funny to be up so dam early! It's not early for my - I'm in time zone UCT +1. > Actually, pressing enter from there did not work. Strange, for my Opera it makes a huge difference - clicking doesn't work at all. > But I won't tell! All right. /gustav > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Gustav Brock > Sent: Wednesday, March 03, 2004 4:13 AM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: Re: [AccessD] Archives - no scroll bar > Hi Bobby >> I then entered my search term and clicked on the little "Go" button. > You need to press Enter. > (That's a secret of the community; erase this when read) > NO ARCHIVE > /gustav From Bryan_Carbonnell at cbc.ca Wed Mar 3 09:07:56 2004 From: Bryan_Carbonnell at cbc.ca (Bryan Carbonnell) Date: Wed, 03 Mar 2004 10:07:56 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Archives - no scroll bar Message-ID: Well I guess this just proves one thing...... WAGs do work sometimes :) Glad you got it working. Bryan Carbonnell bryan_carbonnell at cbc.ca >>> bheid at appdevgrp.com 03-Mar-04 9:54:12 AM >>> Now this is weird. I do use PC Mag's Cookie Cop. I disable it and call up the archives. It works! So I enable the IE Proxy setting in Cookie Cop. It still works. Then I enable Coolie Cop. And the web page still works correctly! I'm not sure what is going on. But thanks for all of the suggestions. Bobby -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Bryan Carbonnell That's weird. I'm at 1024 x 768 as well and it doesn't do that for me. Do you have any sort of popup blocker running? Or something that maybe catches Javascript before it's run? I'm out of ideas. From rl_stewart at highstream.net Wed Mar 3 09:08:55 2004 From: rl_stewart at highstream.net (Robert L. Stewart) Date: Wed, 03 Mar 2004 09:08:55 -0600 Subject: [AccessD] Re: Create scripts: CreateTable? In-Reply-To: <200403031409.i23E9MM18761@databaseadvisors.com> Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20040303084820.02ac1628@pop3.highstream.net> From the sound of the letter, he is dealing with a QA group that will not allow the promotion of the actual MDB with the tables in it to a production environment. They do not understand how Access works. They want a script that will create the tables. He could actually create a Create Data File under Utilities on his menu system that could create the tables, but it is a lot of code to do it. At 08:09 AM 3/3/2004 -0600, you wrote: >Date: Tue, 2 Mar 2004 19:18:25 -0500 >From: "Developer" >Subject: RE: [AccessD] Re: Create scripts: CreateTable? >To: "'Access Developers discussion and problem solving'" > >Message-ID: <001c01c400b5$0e93e2f0$7001a8c0 at COA3> >Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" > >Robert: >I thought that at first, but if that was the case, why not just send the >client the empty .mdb? > >Communication is key ... Lol > >Steve From BarbaraRyan at cox.net Wed Mar 3 09:16:49 2004 From: BarbaraRyan at cox.net (Barbara Ryan) Date: Wed, 3 Mar 2004 10:16:49 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Access 97 Application Startup Message-ID: <005a01c40132$8cada7c0$0a00a8c0@cx470148a> What is actually happening "behind the scenes" when an Access 97 applications starts up? What are some things that would cause the same app to start up slower on one machine vs. another? Does anyone know of any good documentation of this on the web? Thanks, Barb Ryan From ebarro at afsweb.com Wed Mar 3 09:26:36 2004 From: ebarro at afsweb.com (Eric Barro) Date: Wed, 3 Mar 2004 07:26:36 -0800 Subject: [AccessD] Access 97 Application Startup In-Reply-To: <005a01c40132$8cada7c0$0a00a8c0@cx470148a> Message-ID: I'm going to assume that you are also running Outlook. If so check if Journal is activated. This often slows down loading Office apps. --- Eric Barro Senior Systems Analyst Advanced Field Services (208) 772-7060 http://www.afsweb.com -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Barbara Ryan Sent: Wednesday, March 03, 2004 7:17 AM To: Access List Subject: [AccessD] Access 97 Application Startup What is actually happening "behind the scenes" when an Access 97 applications starts up? What are some things that would cause the same app to start up slower on one machine vs. another? Does anyone know of any good documentation of this on the web? Thanks, Barb Ryan -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com --- Incoming mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.593 / Virus Database: 376 - Release Date: 2/20/2004 --- Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.593 / Virus Database: 376 - Release Date: 2/20/2004 From rl_stewart at highstream.net Wed Mar 3 09:34:46 2004 From: rl_stewart at highstream.net (Robert L. Stewart) Date: Wed, 03 Mar 2004 09:34:46 -0600 Subject: [AccessD] Re: Create scripts: CreateTable? In-Reply-To: <200403031409.i23E9MM18761@databaseadvisors.com> Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20040303092848.02abd820@pop3.highstream.net> Sander, Like I said earlier, you are going to have to write the code to do this. And, each time there is a change, you will have to add the change code also. You might be able to use the BEU that someone else suggested. But I do not have any experience with it, so I cannot tell you how to do it. The problem will be getting the delta (changes) between the current version and the development version automatically. In the development area, you will have to freeze teh code, and extract the differences between the current production and the frozen copy. By freezing the development copy, you can continue making changes for the next release without affecting your "ready for production" copy of the development db. Sorry, but it is too big a project just to write the code for you and post to the list. It would probably take a couple of weeks to write and test it. And that would be working on it full time. Robert At 08:09 AM 3/3/2004 -0600, you wrote: >From: S D >Subject: RE: [AccessD] Re: Create scripts: CreateTable? >To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > >Message-ID: <20040303131340.30199.qmail at web61104.mail.yahoo.com> >Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii > >thnx for the replies. > >History: >I work for company A and I'm stationed at Customer B. I'm hired by >Customer B to develop stuff. Customer B has also hired company C to >implement/migrate changes. Company C has a rule that they ONLY use scripts >to implement/migrate changes that can be run by 'ZERO-KNOWLEDGE-USERS'!! > >That is why I need a piece of code to generate CreateTable scripts. I need >this piece of code in Access 2000. > >if anybody neesd any more info don't hesitate to ask. > >Regards, > >Sander From rl_stewart at highstream.net Wed Mar 3 09:37:47 2004 From: rl_stewart at highstream.net (Robert L. Stewart) Date: Wed, 03 Mar 2004 09:37:47 -0600 Subject: [AccessD] Re: Add All to List In-Reply-To: <200403031409.i23E9MM18761@databaseadvisors.com> Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20040303093536.029703a8@pop3.highstream.net> Virginia, Saved Query with the following as a recordsource SELECT 0 as RecordID, "All" as SelectionOption FROM AnyTable UNION ALL Select YourColumnName, YourDescriptionColumn FROM YourTableName Robert At 08:09 AM 3/3/2004 -0600, you wrote: >Date: Wed, 03 Mar 2004 07:45:16 -0600 >From: "Hollis,Virginia" >Subject: [AccessD] Add All to List >To: "'accessd at databaseadvisors.com'" >Message-ID: > <618EB4D6DDCDD3119B0A00508B6FD37A0CB0D21D at cntexchange.pgdp.usec.com> >Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 > >How do you add All to List? This form contains 2 combo boxes on a main form. >Selecting data shows data on a subform for the related combo box choices. > >I need to either have an All in the combo boxes or when the form opens, I >would like them to be blank. > > I tried this code in the On Open of the main form, but it still opens to >the first record with entries in both combo boxes. > > With Me > .cboNCSANo = "" > .cboProcedure = "" > End With > >Virginia > From BarbaraRyan at cox.net Wed Mar 3 09:46:27 2004 From: BarbaraRyan at cox.net (Barbara Ryan) Date: Wed, 3 Mar 2004 10:46:27 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Access 97 Application Startup References: Message-ID: <008601c40136$b0bdb160$0a00a8c0@cx470148a> The application loads in 20 seconds on my computer. My client says the application takes 2 minutes to load on his machine, which is connected to 3 other computers via token ring (the backend database is shared). This morning, however, he said the app took 20 seconds to load, but nobody else was on the network. I don't think he uses Outlook, but I'll check. Barb ----- Original Message ----- From: "Eric Barro" To: "Access Developers discussion and problem solving" Sent: Wednesday, March 03, 2004 10:26 AM Subject: RE: [AccessD] Access 97 Application Startup > I'm going to assume that you are also running Outlook. If so check if Journal is activated. This often slows down loading Office apps. > > --- > Eric Barro > Senior Systems Analyst > Advanced Field Services > (208) 772-7060 > http://www.afsweb.com > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Barbara Ryan > Sent: Wednesday, March 03, 2004 7:17 AM > To: Access List > Subject: [AccessD] Access 97 Application Startup > > > What is actually happening "behind the scenes" when an Access 97 applications starts up? What are some things that would cause the same app to start up slower on one machine vs. another? Does anyone know of any good documentation of this on the web? > > Thanks, > Barb Ryan > > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > --- > Incoming mail is certified Virus Free. > Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). > Version: 6.0.593 / Virus Database: 376 - Release Date: 2/20/2004 > > --- > Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. > Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). > Version: 6.0.593 / Virus Database: 376 - Release Date: 2/20/2004 > > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From bchacc at san.rr.com Wed Mar 3 09:55:43 2004 From: bchacc at san.rr.com (Rocky Smolin - Beach Access Software) Date: Wed, 3 Mar 2004 07:55:43 -0800 Subject: [AccessD] Deployment Message-ID: <006901c40137$fc4cb0d0$6801a8c0@HAL9002> Dear List: I've got an app I'm developing for the consumer market and we're in beta testing now. It's in A2K so all the betas have to have Access. Eventually it will have to be packaged as a run-time. But at that point it will be shrink-wrapped. In the short term we could expand our beta testing universe with a run-time. So I'm trying to figure out the best way to do this. The problem AFAIK with the run-times is their size. Right now we can email the mde to a beta tester and it's about 3-4MB. If I put up a run-time on my web site, beta testers are not likely to know how to do an FTP program. I suppose I could make a password protected folder on my web site, and get my web site developer to make the run-time downloadable or installable from the site. I don't know how to do this. Maybe she does. I've got A97 developer's edition, Wise Installer, and the Sagekey script for A97. But I don't think that the app can be converted back to A97. In any event, the total A97/Wise/Sagekey package runs to about 70MB IIRC. I could buy A2002 or A2003 if they've got a better deployment capability than they've had in the past. What are your recommendations, suggestions, thoughts? Thanks in advance, Rocky Smolin Beach Access Software From wdhindman at bellsouth.net Wed Mar 3 10:16:48 2004 From: wdhindman at bellsouth.net (William Hindman) Date: Wed, 3 Mar 2004 11:16:48 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Deployment References: <006901c40137$fc4cb0d0$6801a8c0@HAL9002> Message-ID: <003d01c4013a$ee518f70$6101a8c0@dejpolsys> ...can't speak to 2000 but the deployment package in AXP was head over heels better than the A97 version ...I've deployed more than a hundred AXP runtimes with it without a hiccup ...hth :) William Hindman "My idea of an agreeable person is a person who agrees with me." Disraeli ----- Original Message ----- From: "Rocky Smolin - Beach Access Software" To: Sent: Wednesday, March 03, 2004 10:55 AM Subject: [AccessD] Deployment Dear List: I've got an app I'm developing for the consumer market and we're in beta testing now. It's in A2K so all the betas have to have Access. Eventually it will have to be packaged as a run-time. But at that point it will be shrink-wrapped. In the short term we could expand our beta testing universe with a run-time. So I'm trying to figure out the best way to do this. The problem AFAIK with the run-times is their size. Right now we can email the mde to a beta tester and it's about 3-4MB. If I put up a run-time on my web site, beta testers are not likely to know how to do an FTP program. I suppose I could make a password protected folder on my web site, and get my web site developer to make the run-time downloadable or installable from the site. I don't know how to do this. Maybe she does. I've got A97 developer's edition, Wise Installer, and the Sagekey script for A97. But I don't think that the app can be converted back to A97. In any event, the total A97/Wise/Sagekey package runs to about 70MB IIRC. I could buy A2002 or A2003 if they've got a better deployment capability than they've had in the past. What are your recommendations, suggestions, thoughts? Thanks in advance, Rocky Smolin Beach Access Software -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From cfoust at infostatsystems.com Wed Mar 3 10:19:55 2004 From: cfoust at infostatsystems.com (Charlotte Foust) Date: Wed, 3 Mar 2004 08:19:55 -0800 Subject: [AccessD] Deployment Message-ID: The wizard is not significantly better in 2002 than the previous versions, and the runtime is much larger in 2000 and up. 2003 requires the VSTO to distribute a runtime version. We either provide our users (and beta testers) with full setup CDs or they download an installer from an FTP site. That is absolutely the only way to insure that the settings and libraries are the same on both development and beta sites. And even for XP, we use Wise and Sagekey. Charlotte Foust -----Original Message----- From: Rocky Smolin - Beach Access Software [mailto:bchacc at san.rr.com] Sent: Wednesday, March 03, 2004 7:56 AM To: AccessD at databaseadvisors.com Subject: [AccessD] Deployment Dear List: I've got an app I'm developing for the consumer market and we're in beta testing now. It's in A2K so all the betas have to have Access. Eventually it will have to be packaged as a run-time. But at that point it will be shrink-wrapped. In the short term we could expand our beta testing universe with a run-time. So I'm trying to figure out the best way to do this. The problem AFAIK with the run-times is their size. Right now we can email the mde to a beta tester and it's about 3-4MB. If I put up a run-time on my web site, beta testers are not likely to know how to do an FTP program. I suppose I could make a password protected folder on my web site, and get my web site developer to make the run-time downloadable or installable from the site. I don't know how to do this. Maybe she does. I've got A97 developer's edition, Wise Installer, and the Sagekey script for A97. But I don't think that the app can be converted back to A97. In any event, the total A97/Wise/Sagekey package runs to about 70MB IIRC. I could buy A2002 or A2003 if they've got a better deployment capability than they've had in the past. What are your recommendations, suggestions, thoughts? Thanks in advance, Rocky Smolin Beach Access Software -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From cfoust at infostatsystems.com Wed Mar 3 10:24:07 2004 From: cfoust at infostatsystems.com (Charlotte Foust) Date: Wed, 3 Mar 2004 08:24:07 -0800 Subject: [AccessD] Access 97 Application Startup Message-ID: Are they by any chance also sharing the front end? That would certainly cause the ratchetting slowdown. Token Ring isn't the fastest network around either. Charlotte Foust -----Original Message----- From: Barbara Ryan [mailto:BarbaraRyan at cox.net] Sent: Wednesday, March 03, 2004 7:46 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access 97 Application Startup The application loads in 20 seconds on my computer. My client says the application takes 2 minutes to load on his machine, which is connected to 3 other computers via token ring (the backend database is shared). This morning, however, he said the app took 20 seconds to load, but nobody else was on the network. I don't think he uses Outlook, but I'll check. Barb ----- Original Message ----- From: "Eric Barro" To: "Access Developers discussion and problem solving" Sent: Wednesday, March 03, 2004 10:26 AM Subject: RE: [AccessD] Access 97 Application Startup > I'm going to assume that you are also running Outlook. If so check if Journal is activated. This often slows down loading Office apps. > > --- > Eric Barro > Senior Systems Analyst > Advanced Field Services > (208) 772-7060 > http://www.afsweb.com > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Barbara Ryan > Sent: Wednesday, March 03, 2004 7:17 AM > To: Access List > Subject: [AccessD] Access 97 Application Startup > > > What is actually happening "behind the scenes" when an Access 97 applications starts up? What are some things that would cause the same app to start up slower on one machine vs. another? Does anyone know of any good documentation of this on the web? > > Thanks, > Barb Ryan > > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > --- > Incoming mail is certified Virus Free. > Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). > Version: 6.0.593 / Virus Database: 376 - Release Date: 2/20/2004 > > --- > Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. > Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). > Version: 6.0.593 / Virus Database: 376 - Release Date: 2/20/2004 > > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From BarbaraRyan at cox.net Wed Mar 3 10:33:10 2004 From: BarbaraRyan at cox.net (Barbara Ryan) Date: Wed, 3 Mar 2004 11:33:10 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Access 97 Application Startup References: Message-ID: <00a401c4013d$372c4ee0$0a00a8c0@cx470148a> No, they each have a FE on their own machine.............Barb ----- Original Message ----- From: "Charlotte Foust" To: "Access Developers discussion and problem solving" Sent: Wednesday, March 03, 2004 11:24 AM Subject: RE: [AccessD] Access 97 Application Startup > Are they by any chance also sharing the front end? That would certainly > cause the ratchetting slowdown. Token Ring isn't the fastest network > around either. > > Charlotte Foust > > -----Original Message----- > From: Barbara Ryan [mailto:BarbaraRyan at cox.net] > Sent: Wednesday, March 03, 2004 7:46 AM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access 97 Application Startup > > > The application loads in 20 seconds on my computer. My client says the > application takes 2 minutes to load on his machine, which is connected > to 3 other computers via token ring (the backend database is shared). > This morning, however, he said the app took 20 seconds to load, but > nobody else was on the network. > > I don't think he uses Outlook, but I'll check. > > Barb > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Eric Barro" > To: "Access Developers discussion and problem solving" > > Sent: Wednesday, March 03, 2004 10:26 AM > Subject: RE: [AccessD] Access 97 Application Startup > > > > I'm going to assume that you are also running Outlook. If so check if > Journal is activated. This often slows down loading Office apps. > > > > --- > > Eric Barro > > Senior Systems Analyst > > Advanced Field Services > > (208) 772-7060 > > http://www.afsweb.com > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Barbara Ryan > > Sent: Wednesday, March 03, 2004 7:17 AM > > To: Access List > > Subject: [AccessD] Access 97 Application Startup > > > > > > What is actually happening "behind the scenes" when an Access 97 > applications starts up? What are some things that would cause the same > app to start up slower on one machine vs. another? Does anyone know of > any good documentation of this on the web? > > > > Thanks, > > Barb Ryan > > > > -- > > _______________________________________________ > > AccessD mailing list > > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > --- > > Incoming mail is certified Virus Free. > > Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). > > Version: 6.0.593 / Virus Database: 376 - Release Date: 2/20/2004 > > > > --- > > Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. > > Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). > > Version: 6.0.593 / Virus Database: 376 - Release Date: 2/20/2004 > > > > -- > > _______________________________________________ > > AccessD mailing list > > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From cfoust at infostatsystems.com Wed Mar 3 10:30:57 2004 From: cfoust at infostatsystems.com (Charlotte Foust) Date: Wed, 3 Mar 2004 08:30:57 -0800 Subject: [AccessD] Continous form based off a recordset Message-ID: I didn't think forms bound to an ADO recordset were updateable in 2000 period, MDB or ADP. Am I misremembering? Charlotte Foust -----Original Message----- From: Francisco H Tapia [mailto:my.lists at verizon.net] Sent: Wednesday, March 03, 2004 2:24 AM To: AccessD Subject: [AccessD] Continous form based off a recordset bottom line (SqlServer2000 + Access 2000 ADP) have a recordset in an ADP.. the data is from SqlServer and i've been looking at the code all day (march 2) till now Mar3rd at 2am.... it's a sproc that joins across a udf and some subqueries... bottom line Access doesn't see this as an updatable recordset... so I created a 2nd sproc that takes these parameters and dumps it to a #tempTable however this sproc is still NOT updatable :( wtf! ... so.. I dimmed my variable RS as an adorecordset but still I get issues because even if I create a disconnected RS, it cannot be bound to the form unless I push the activeconnection property to it which then gives me other issues well it's 230am (practically) and i'm probably gonna crash now due to exhaustion but if anyone can make sense and wants to drop me a line, thanks I appreciate it... :D -- -Francisco -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From bchacc at san.rr.com Wed Mar 3 10:44:04 2004 From: bchacc at san.rr.com (Rocky Smolin - Beach Access Software) Date: Wed, 3 Mar 2004 08:44:04 -0800 Subject: [AccessD] Deployment References: <006901c40137$fc4cb0d0$6801a8c0@HAL9002> <003d01c4013a$ee518f70$6101a8c0@dejpolsys> Message-ID: <009401c4013e$bd2b7b00$6801a8c0@HAL9002> William: What's the overhead? How big is the package net of the mdb or mde itself? Did you have to buy a developer's license for AXP? Rocky ----- Original Message ----- From: "William Hindman" To: "Access Developers discussion and problem solving" Sent: Wednesday, March 03, 2004 8:16 AM Subject: Re: [AccessD] Deployment > ...can't speak to 2000 but the deployment package in AXP was head over heels > better than the A97 version ...I've deployed more than a hundred AXP > runtimes with it without a hiccup ...hth :) > > William Hindman "My idea of an agreeable person is a person who agrees with > me." Disraeli > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Rocky Smolin - Beach Access Software" > To: > Sent: Wednesday, March 03, 2004 10:55 AM > Subject: [AccessD] Deployment > > > Dear List: > > I've got an app I'm developing for the consumer market and we're in beta > testing now. It's in A2K so all the betas have to have Access. > > Eventually it will have to be packaged as a run-time. But at that point it > will be shrink-wrapped. > > In the short term we could expand our beta testing universe with a run-time. > So I'm trying to figure out the best way to do this. > > The problem AFAIK with the run-times is their size. Right now we can email > the mde to a beta tester and it's about 3-4MB. If I put up a run-time on my > web site, beta testers are not likely to know how to do an FTP program. > > I suppose I could make a password protected folder on my web site, and get > my web site developer to make the run-time downloadable or installable from > the site. I don't know how to do this. Maybe she does. > > I've got A97 developer's edition, Wise Installer, and the Sagekey script for > A97. But I don't think that the app can be converted back to A97. In any > event, the total A97/Wise/Sagekey package runs to about 70MB IIRC. > > I could buy A2002 or A2003 if they've got a better deployment capability > than they've had in the past. > > What are your recommendations, suggestions, thoughts? > > Thanks in advance, > > Rocky Smolin > Beach Access Software > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > From DWUTKA at marlow.com Wed Mar 3 10:46:53 2004 From: DWUTKA at marlow.com (DWUTKA at marlow.com) Date: Wed, 3 Mar 2004 10:46:53 -0600 Subject: [AccessD] Drew - Age of the Archives? Message-ID: <2F8793082E00D4119A1700B0D0216BF802227923@main2.marlow.com> Hmmmm, let's work backwards. I know that the archives stopping archiving this past August/September (2003), because that's when I separated from Tammy. I know the archives started using the 'Memo Field Indexing' in April of 2003, because that is when my apartment caught fire. I know I moved the archives from Marlow to my home in early January of 2003, because my DSL company went bankrupt and pulled the plug on their network then. I have no clue when I actually 'started' the archives, other then a wild guess at about 6 months before I moved it home. So I would say July or August of 2002. Drew (Interesting timeline, eh?) -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of John Bartow Sent: Tuesday, March 02, 2004 9:00 PM To: _DBA-Access Subject: [AccessD] Drew - Age of the Archives? Drew, Someone recently asked me how long I have been on this list. The only point of reference I could think of was about two years before I sent all my archives to Drew! So, Do you know when you put the archives together on your site? John "My memory is 40 years ahead of it time (I have a like I'm over 80)" Bartow -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From DWUTKA at marlow.com Wed Mar 3 10:47:42 2004 From: DWUTKA at marlow.com (DWUTKA at marlow.com) Date: Wed, 3 Mar 2004 10:47:42 -0600 Subject: [AccessD] Drew - Age of the Archives? Message-ID: <2F8793082E00D4119A1700B0D0216BF802227924@main2.marlow.com> What do you mean? Did you want this in another thread? Drew -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Ayisha Sent: Wednesday, March 03, 2004 3:28 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Drew - Age of the Archives? Is there any way that i can open a linked form in background. Any Idea???? Ayisha -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From DWUTKA at marlow.com Wed Mar 3 10:48:11 2004 From: DWUTKA at marlow.com (DWUTKA at marlow.com) Date: Wed, 3 Mar 2004 10:48:11 -0600 Subject: [AccessD] Looking for Calander App that would interact with A ccess Message-ID: <2F8793082E00D4119A1700B0D0216BF802227925@main2.marlow.com> Ooops, http://www.wolfwares.com Drew -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of John Skolits Sent: Wednesday, March 03, 2004 6:03 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: [AccessD] Looking for Calander App that would interact with Access Hey Drew, Can't find your site address. Thanks. -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of DWUTKA at marlow.com Sent: Tuesday, March 02, 2004 6:32 PM To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: RE: [AccessD] Looking for Calander App that would interact with Access Take a look at MiniCalendar 3.0, on my site. Look at the cycle mode. It's not a complete app, just a 'form' add-in. However, it's relatively easy to integrate into another access app. (Warning, if you are using A2k or up, hold the shift key when opening, and kill the AutoExec macro when you get the chance. (extra fluff involved that only works right in A97...only there in the startup though....) Drew -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of John Skolits Sent: Tuesday, March 02, 2004 8:33 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: [AccessD] Looking for Calander App that would interact with Access Anyone see a good Calendar App that allows people to schedule information for a particular customer and link that customer to an Access database. In this way, a dispatcher can use the calendar to schedule appointments and then print customer database info for a repair person before they go to the customers location. Thanks, John Skolits -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From DWUTKA at marlow.com Wed Mar 3 10:50:30 2004 From: DWUTKA at marlow.com (DWUTKA at marlow.com) Date: Wed, 3 Mar 2004 10:50:30 -0600 Subject: [AccessD] Add All to List Message-ID: <2F8793082E00D4119A1700B0D0216BF802227926@main2.marlow.com> Are they bound combo boxes? Easiest way to do that is to just use a Union Query. Say they are currently bound to: SELECT CustomerID FROM tblCustomers Changing the source of the combo to: SELECT "ALL" AS CustomerID FROM tblCustomers UNION SELECT CustomerID FROM tblCustomers Will populate the listbox with ALL as the top option. Drew -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Hollis,Virginia Sent: Wednesday, March 03, 2004 7:45 AM To: 'accessd at databaseadvisors.com' Subject: [AccessD] Add All to List How do you add All to List? This form contains 2 combo boxes on a main form. Selecting data shows data on a subform for the related combo box choices. I need to either have an All in the combo boxes or when the form opens, I would like them to be blank. I tried this code in the On Open of the main form, but it still opens to the first record with entries in both combo boxes. With Me .cboNCSANo = "" .cboProcedure = "" End With Virginia -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From wdhindman at bellsouth.net Wed Mar 3 10:53:51 2004 From: wdhindman at bellsouth.net (William Hindman) Date: Wed, 3 Mar 2004 11:53:51 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Deployment References: <006901c40137$fc4cb0d0$6801a8c0@HAL9002><003d01c4013a$ee518f70$6101a8c0@dejpolsys> <009401c4013e$bd2b7b00$6801a8c0@HAL9002> Message-ID: <001c01c40140$1b47c6c0$6101a8c0@dejpolsys> ...yeah, you need the ODE for XP ...but you can pick that up on e-bay pretty cheap now ...but you need that whether you use wise/sagekey or the ODE packaging wizard ...iirc the ODE has the runtime distribution license, not the Office Pro pkg. William Hindman "My idea of an agreeable person is a person who agrees with me." Disraeli ----- Original Message ----- From: "Rocky Smolin - Beach Access Software" To: "Access Developers discussion and problem solving" Sent: Wednesday, March 03, 2004 11:44 AM Subject: Re: [AccessD] Deployment > William: > > What's the overhead? How big is the package net of the mdb or mde itself? > > Did you have to buy a developer's license for AXP? > > Rocky > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "William Hindman" > To: "Access Developers discussion and problem solving" > > Sent: Wednesday, March 03, 2004 8:16 AM > Subject: Re: [AccessD] Deployment > > > > ...can't speak to 2000 but the deployment package in AXP was head over > heels > > better than the A97 version ...I've deployed more than a hundred AXP > > runtimes with it without a hiccup ...hth :) > > > > William Hindman "My idea of an agreeable person is a person who agrees > with > > me." Disraeli > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: "Rocky Smolin - Beach Access Software" > > To: > > Sent: Wednesday, March 03, 2004 10:55 AM > > Subject: [AccessD] Deployment > > > > > > Dear List: > > > > I've got an app I'm developing for the consumer market and we're in beta > > testing now. It's in A2K so all the betas have to have Access. > > > > Eventually it will have to be packaged as a run-time. But at that point it > > will be shrink-wrapped. > > > > In the short term we could expand our beta testing universe with a > run-time. > > So I'm trying to figure out the best way to do this. > > > > The problem AFAIK with the run-times is their size. Right now we can > email > > the mde to a beta tester and it's about 3-4MB. If I put up a run-time on > my > > web site, beta testers are not likely to know how to do an FTP program. > > > > I suppose I could make a password protected folder on my web site, and get > > my web site developer to make the run-time downloadable or installable > from > > the site. I don't know how to do this. Maybe she does. > > > > I've got A97 developer's edition, Wise Installer, and the Sagekey script > for > > A97. But I don't think that the app can be converted back to A97. In any > > event, the total A97/Wise/Sagekey package runs to about 70MB IIRC. > > > > I could buy A2002 or A2003 if they've got a better deployment capability > > than they've had in the past. > > > > What are your recommendations, suggestions, thoughts? > > > > Thanks in advance, > > > > Rocky Smolin > > Beach Access Software > > -- > > _______________________________________________ > > AccessD mailing list > > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > > > -- > > _______________________________________________ > > AccessD mailing list > > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > From DWUTKA at marlow.com Wed Mar 3 10:53:06 2004 From: DWUTKA at marlow.com (DWUTKA at marlow.com) Date: Wed, 3 Mar 2004 10:53:06 -0600 Subject: [AccessD] Archives - no scroll bar Message-ID: <2F8793082E00D4119A1700B0D0216BF802227927@main2.marlow.com> Okay, we need to ask Jim to look at his code, that is sending you to the Archives. He is probably using the open statement, and not implicitly including the scrollbars argument. I've seen that do funny things before, where one browser will work fine, and another goes goofy. (Even same type of browser...it just depends on the settings in the browser). Drew -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Bobby Heid Sent: Wednesday, March 03, 2004 8:15 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: [AccessD] Archives - no scroll bar Works correctly when I go directly there. Thanks, Bobby -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of DWUTKA at marlow.com Sent: Tuesday, March 02, 2004 6:20 PM To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: RE: [AccessD] Archives - no scroll bar Bobby, try going directly to the searchable archives. http://www.wolfwares.com/AccessD Do your search there. If you still have no scroll bars, let me know. If you do have them, then we need to let Jim Lawrence know. He may have used a script, that is opening my site in a new window, that doesn't have a flag set for scrollbars. Drew -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Bobby Heid Sent: Tuesday, March 02, 2004 1:48 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: [AccessD] Archives - no scroll bar Hi Bryan, I went to http://www.databaseadvisors.com and clicked on the archive link on the left side of the screen. I entered my search term at: http://www.databaseadvisors.com/archive/archive.htm I then entered my search term and clicked on the little "Go" button. This takes me to the AccessD Archives with a howling wolf in the upper left hand corner. Still no scrollbars this time either. Thanks, Bobby -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Bryan Carbonnell Sent: Tuesday, March 02, 2004 1:32 PM To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: RE: [AccessD] Archives - no scroll bar Not on databaseadvisors.com either. The archives there are not searchable yet. Bobby, where did you search from? Bryan Carbonnell bryan_carbonnell at cbc.ca >>> DWUTKA at marlow.com 02-Mar-04 1:22:23 PM >>> Not on the archives on my site. Just checked, and the scroll bars were there. Drew -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Bobby Heid Sent: Tuesday, March 02, 2004 7:52 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: [AccessD] Archives - no scroll bar Hey all, I was searching the archives for something and it had a lot of hits. But since there was no scroll bar, I had to press the tab key to move to each entry. I could not page down or use the mouse wheel either. This is in IE 6.0.28, windows 2k. Is this by design? Thanks, Bobby -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From DWUTKA at marlow.com Wed Mar 3 10:59:18 2004 From: DWUTKA at marlow.com (DWUTKA at marlow.com) Date: Wed, 3 Mar 2004 10:59:18 -0600 Subject: [AccessD] Access 97 Application Startup Message-ID: <2F8793082E00D4119A1700B0D0216BF802227928@main2.marlow.com> Token ring? Are you serious? That is more then likely an issue. Is your copy split BE and FE? Or are you using the 'full' database? That is definitely an issue for speed, by having the FE/BE shared. Do you have any startup code/forms? If you don't, and it just takes that long to open the .mdb itself (try holding shift down during opening, see if that makes a difference. If it does, then you have something running in the beginning.....), the only thing I could think of to optimize things, is if you have Access User Level security running, make sure to use a local .mdw for the user's FE, because that is one less thing Access has to access the network for. Token Ring is a very sluggish network process though, if I remember right, it literally goes 'round and round', looking for network messages to handle, instead of the self perpetuated methods of Ethernet and TCP/IP. Drew -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Barbara Ryan Sent: Wednesday, March 03, 2004 9:46 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access 97 Application Startup The application loads in 20 seconds on my computer. My client says the application takes 2 minutes to load on his machine, which is connected to 3 other computers via token ring (the backend database is shared). This morning, however, he said the app took 20 seconds to load, but nobody else was on the network. I don't think he uses Outlook, but I'll check. Barb ----- Original Message ----- From: "Eric Barro" To: "Access Developers discussion and problem solving" Sent: Wednesday, March 03, 2004 10:26 AM Subject: RE: [AccessD] Access 97 Application Startup > I'm going to assume that you are also running Outlook. If so check if Journal is activated. This often slows down loading Office apps. > > --- > Eric Barro > Senior Systems Analyst > Advanced Field Services > (208) 772-7060 > http://www.afsweb.com > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Barbara Ryan > Sent: Wednesday, March 03, 2004 7:17 AM > To: Access List > Subject: [AccessD] Access 97 Application Startup > > > What is actually happening "behind the scenes" when an Access 97 applications starts up? What are some things that would cause the same app to start up slower on one machine vs. another? Does anyone know of any good documentation of this on the web? > > Thanks, > Barb Ryan > > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > --- > Incoming mail is certified Virus Free. > Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). > Version: 6.0.593 / Virus Database: 376 - Release Date: 2/20/2004 > > --- > Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. > Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). > Version: 6.0.593 / Virus Database: 376 - Release Date: 2/20/2004 > > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From rl_stewart at highstream.net Wed Mar 3 11:04:05 2004 From: rl_stewart at highstream.net (Robert L. Stewart) Date: Wed, 03 Mar 2004 11:04:05 -0600 Subject: [AccessD] Re: Access 97 Application Startup In-Reply-To: <200403031654.i23GsaM21652@databaseadvisors.com> Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20040303110234.02ab5c28@pop3.highstream.net> Memory Operating System Number of Applications running Network card speed Hubs instead of a direct connect to the network Many things can influence the speed of the application. At 10:54 AM 3/3/2004 -0600, you wrote: >Date: Wed, 3 Mar 2004 10:16:49 -0500 >From: "Barbara Ryan" >Subject: [AccessD] Access 97 Application Startup >To: "Access List" >Message-ID: <005a01c40132$8cada7c0$0a00a8c0 at cx470148a> >Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" > >What is actually happening "behind the scenes" when an Access 97 >applications starts up? What are some things that would cause the same >app to start up slower on one machine vs. another? Does anyone know of >any good documentation of this on the web? > >Thanks, >Barb Ryan From gustav at cactus.dk Wed Mar 3 11:11:18 2004 From: gustav at cactus.dk (Gustav Brock) Date: Wed, 3 Mar 2004 18:11:18 +0100 Subject: [AccessD] notes on mdb bloat In-Reply-To: <3821148499.20040303150109@cactus.dk> References: <1047489135.8377.32.camel@sgsax-th4022c> <1128525026.20030312184542@cactus.dk> <1047496262.8435.182.camel@sgsax-th4022c> <3821148499.20040303150109@cactus.dk> Message-ID: <10932556874.20040303181118@cactus.dk> Hi all Does this - simplified - boil down to, that all row-level locking does compared to page-level locking is bloating a row to fill a page? /gustav > Hi Seth et all > In Garry Robinson's newsletter I noted this extremely interesting topic: > SINGLE RECORD LOCKING, BLOAT AND CITRIX BUGS > Did you know that the record-level locking option (menu > Tools~Options~Advanced) that is used by Access 2000 onwards has an > interesting twist. To achieve a single record lock, each record that > is locked uses up all of an Access page in the mdb file. This page of > data, most of which will probably be empty for records with only a few > fields, consumes 4000 bytes. This space is later recovered when the > database is compacted but if you have a database that seems to expand > fast, this could be your culprit. For more on this database bloat and > a possible cure for Access corruptions for Citrix head to this page. > http://ewbi.blogs.com/develops/2004/01/access_corrupti.html > and an other blog on the same topic > http://dbforums.com/arch/213/2002/10/551337 > Gary is here: > http://www.vb123.com/ > /gustav >> I hadn't even thought of that. I tried it just now, and the resulting >> mdb is 1.5MB. Still three times as big as the A97 version, but not as >> big as the base A2K version. >> The unicode comments make sense, I had forgotten about that, too. >> Oh well, more interesting info from the developer front... >> Seth >> On Wed, 2003-03-12 at 11:45, Gustav Brock wrote: >>> Hi Seth >>> >>> What happens if you "forward port" the A97 version to A2000? >>> >>> /gustav From john at winhaven.net Wed Mar 3 11:23:43 2004 From: john at winhaven.net (John Bartow) Date: Wed, 3 Mar 2004 11:23:43 -0600 Subject: [AccessD] Drew - Age of the Archives? In-Reply-To: <2F8793082E00D4119A1700B0D0216BF802227923@main2.marlow.com> Message-ID: Drew, Yes, it is an interesting timeline, I thought of a few of those things too! :o) Thanks, John -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of DWUTKA at marlow.com Sent: Wednesday, March 03, 2004 10:47 AM To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: RE: [AccessD] Drew - Age of the Archives? Hmmmm, let's work backwards. I know that the archives stopping archiving this past August/September (2003), because that's when I separated from Tammy. I know the archives started using the 'Memo Field Indexing' in April of 2003, because that is when my apartment caught fire. I know I moved the archives from Marlow to my home in early January of 2003, because my DSL company went bankrupt and pulled the plug on their network then. I have no clue when I actually 'started' the archives, other then a wild guess at about 6 months before I moved it home. So I would say July or August of 2002. Drew (Interesting timeline, eh?) -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of John Bartow Sent: Tuesday, March 02, 2004 9:00 PM To: _DBA-Access Subject: [AccessD] Drew - Age of the Archives? Drew, Someone recently asked me how long I have been on this list. The only point of reference I could think of was about two years before I sent all my archives to Drew! So, Do you know when you put the archives together on your site? John "My memory is 40 years ahead of it time (I have a like I'm over 80)" Bartow -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From john at winhaven.net Wed Mar 3 11:23:43 2004 From: john at winhaven.net (John Bartow) Date: Wed, 3 Mar 2004 11:23:43 -0600 Subject: [AccessD] notes on mdb bloat In-Reply-To: <10932556874.20040303181118@cactus.dk> Message-ID: Gustav, It would certainly seem that way. It appears, at first glance, to be a work-around solution to achieve row-level locking rather than a permanent, engine level solution. But it may have been done this way for Jet and backward compatibility issues. (?) John -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Gustav Brock Sent: Wednesday, March 03, 2004 11:11 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] notes on mdb bloat Hi all Does this - simplified - boil down to, that all row-level locking does compared to page-level locking is bloating a row to fill a page? /gustav > Hi Seth et all > In Garry Robinson's newsletter I noted this extremely interesting topic: > SINGLE RECORD LOCKING, BLOAT AND CITRIX BUGS > Did you know that the record-level locking option (menu > Tools~Options~Advanced) that is used by Access 2000 onwards has an > interesting twist. To achieve a single record lock, each record that > is locked uses up all of an Access page in the mdb file. This page of > data, most of which will probably be empty for records with only a few > fields, consumes 4000 bytes. This space is later recovered when the > database is compacted but if you have a database that seems to expand > fast, this could be your culprit. For more on this database bloat and > a possible cure for Access corruptions for Citrix head to this page. > http://ewbi.blogs.com/develops/2004/01/access_corrupti.html > and an other blog on the same topic > http://dbforums.com/arch/213/2002/10/551337 > Gary is here: > http://www.vb123.com/ > /gustav >> I hadn't even thought of that. I tried it just now, and the resulting >> mdb is 1.5MB. Still three times as big as the A97 version, but not as >> big as the base A2K version. >> The unicode comments make sense, I had forgotten about that, too. >> Oh well, more interesting info from the developer front... >> Seth >> On Wed, 2003-03-12 at 11:45, Gustav Brock wrote: >>> Hi Seth >>> >>> What happens if you "forward port" the A97 version to A2000? >>> >>> /gustav -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From KIsmert at TexasSystems.com Wed Mar 3 11:34:11 2004 From: KIsmert at TexasSystems.com (Ken Ismert) Date: Wed, 3 Mar 2004 11:34:11 -0600 Subject: [AccessD] A2K: Filtering a pick list In-Reply-To: <000e01c40111$3cf382c0$42669a89@DDICK> Message-ID: <007001c40145$bdd59980$2a3ca8c0@TEXASSYSTEMS.COM> I'm a man, who manufactures, who manufactures chairs. I'm a man who manufactures chairs and other wares. I'm a man, who manufactures! There is an efficient way to do this without building a custom WHERE clause. You need to make a WHERE clause for your original listbox query that works for every combination of combobox values. Take cboSuppliers, for example. You want it to restrict to a single Supplier when a value is selected, but show all Suppliers when no value (Null) is selected. A WHERE expression that does this is: WHERE Nz(tblChairs.SupplierID = [Forms]![frmChairs]![cboSuppliers], True) = True When cboSuppliers has a value, this will return chairs only for that SupplierID. When cboSuppliers is Null, the Nz function will return True for all SupplierIDs. (Value = Null returns Null in all instances.) So, your full WHERE clause would be: WHERE (Nz(tblChairs.SupplierID = [Forms]![frmChairs]![cboSuppliers], True) = True) AND (Nz(tblChairs.BackTypeID = [Forms]![frmChairs]![cboBackTypes], True) = True) AND (Nz(tblChairs.RangeID = [Forms]![frmChairs]![cboRanges], True) = True) AND (Nz(tblChairs.StyleID = [Forms]![frmChairs]![cboStyles], True) = True) In the AfterUpdate event of each combo, your code to implement couldn't be simpler: lstChairs.Requery You could also introduce a Clear button, which would reset your filter in its Click event: cboSuppliers.Value = Null cboBackTypes.Value = Null cboRanges.Value = Null cboStyles.Value = Null lstChairs.Requery You will find this faster than forcing the listbox or subform to parse the RowSource SQL every time a filter combobox changes. This works well even for large tables, as long as the fields you are filtering on are properly indexed. Note that this technique works best for fields that do not allow nulls, like keys. With slight modifications, you can get it to work for nullable fields. Plus, for subforms, you have the advantage of allowing the user to filter the subform themselves, since you are not using the form's Filter property. This has saved me from having to recode a form because someone wanted a custom way of looking at the data. -Ken (my apologies to Mister Rogers) -----Original Message----- From: Darren DICK [mailto:d.dick at uws.edu.au] Sent: Wednesday, March 03, 2004 5:17 AM To: AccessD List Subject: [AccessD] A2K: Filtering a pick list Hello all I have a very large list box that lists all the products (in this case chairs) in a db Each chair in tblChairs has many fields but in this case the ones I am interested in are ChairID, SupplierID, BackTypeID, RangeID, StyleID So on the same form as this very large list box of chairs, I have combo boxes - yep you guessed it - 4 of 'em - cboSuppliers, cboBackTypes, cboRanges, cboStyleID I wanna filter the large list box based on the values in all or any combination of the combo boxes. EG Say supplier 5 = Acme Manufacturing and in the whole dB there are 100 chairs made by Acme Say of that 100 that Acme produce 38 of em have a Backtype of 2 (as in Low =1 medium=2 High=3 etc) I would want the large list to instantly decrease to 100 items if I selected Acme from the Suppliers combo. Then I would want that list to further decreas to 38 when I choose Medium back PSUEDo = show me evert chair in the dB with supplier ID = 5 and BackType = 2 etc etc and then somehow accept the various combinations of combo choices. Is there a clever or easy way of doing this without writing a zillion sql's then selecting the correct one and making it the listbox row source? Many thanks in advance Darren From jimdettman at earthlink.net Wed Mar 3 11:40:47 2004 From: jimdettman at earthlink.net (Jim Dettman) Date: Wed, 3 Mar 2004 12:40:47 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] notes on mdb bloat In-Reply-To: <10932556874.20040303181118@cactus.dk> Message-ID: Gustav, My guess would be no. Note that Garry mentions that it stays bloated until compact. That doesn't make sense. If the record locking algorithm can work after the database is compacted, then why would it have to bloat it in the first place? It just doesn't make sense from that standpoint. It does make sense though as to how they could achieve it with little problem, as they are just duplicating a technique that many developers used to get pseudo record level locking. It would be a simple matter to change the add logic to always use an empty page (they in part had already done that for JET 3.5). So there's another reason why it's probably not that; if it were that simple (one record per page), then why did we need a new version of JET? Seems like something they could have put in A95 or A97 quite easily. With no docs, it's all guess work though. Jim Dettman President, Online Computer Services of WNY, Inc. (315) 699-3443 jimdettman at earthlink.net -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Gustav Brock Sent: Wednesday, March 03, 2004 12:11 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] notes on mdb bloat Hi all Does this - simplified - boil down to, that all row-level locking does compared to page-level locking is bloating a row to fill a page? /gustav > Hi Seth et all > In Garry Robinson's newsletter I noted this extremely interesting topic: > SINGLE RECORD LOCKING, BLOAT AND CITRIX BUGS > Did you know that the record-level locking option (menu > Tools~Options~Advanced) that is used by Access 2000 onwards has an > interesting twist. To achieve a single record lock, each record that > is locked uses up all of an Access page in the mdb file. This page of > data, most of which will probably be empty for records with only a few > fields, consumes 4000 bytes. This space is later recovered when the > database is compacted but if you have a database that seems to expand > fast, this could be your culprit. For more on this database bloat and > a possible cure for Access corruptions for Citrix head to this page. > http://ewbi.blogs.com/develops/2004/01/access_corrupti.html > and an other blog on the same topic > http://dbforums.com/arch/213/2002/10/551337 > Gary is here: > http://www.vb123.com/ > /gustav >> I hadn't even thought of that. I tried it just now, and the resulting >> mdb is 1.5MB. Still three times as big as the A97 version, but not as >> big as the base A2K version. >> The unicode comments make sense, I had forgotten about that, too. >> Oh well, more interesting info from the developer front... >> Seth >> On Wed, 2003-03-12 at 11:45, Gustav Brock wrote: >>> Hi Seth >>> >>> What happens if you "forward port" the A97 version to A2000? >>> >>> /gustav -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From DWUTKA at marlow.com Wed Mar 3 11:47:14 2004 From: DWUTKA at marlow.com (DWUTKA at marlow.com) Date: Wed, 3 Mar 2004 11:47:14 -0600 Subject: [AccessD] Drew - Age of the Archives? Message-ID: <2F8793082E00D4119A1700B0D0216BF802227929@main2.marlow.com> I actually gave a presentation on the 'indexing' capabilities I built for the archives last month. After my track record with major changes/updates to the archives, I was just a little leary to give that presentation....go figure! Drew -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of John Bartow Sent: Wednesday, March 03, 2004 11:24 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] Drew - Age of the Archives? Drew, Yes, it is an interesting timeline, I thought of a few of those things too! :o) Thanks, John -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of DWUTKA at marlow.com Sent: Wednesday, March 03, 2004 10:47 AM To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: RE: [AccessD] Drew - Age of the Archives? Hmmmm, let's work backwards. I know that the archives stopping archiving this past August/September (2003), because that's when I separated from Tammy. I know the archives started using the 'Memo Field Indexing' in April of 2003, because that is when my apartment caught fire. I know I moved the archives from Marlow to my home in early January of 2003, because my DSL company went bankrupt and pulled the plug on their network then. I have no clue when I actually 'started' the archives, other then a wild guess at about 6 months before I moved it home. So I would say July or August of 2002. Drew (Interesting timeline, eh?) -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of John Bartow Sent: Tuesday, March 02, 2004 9:00 PM To: _DBA-Access Subject: [AccessD] Drew - Age of the Archives? Drew, Someone recently asked me how long I have been on this list. The only point of reference I could think of was about two years before I sent all my archives to Drew! So, Do you know when you put the archives together on your site? John "My memory is 40 years ahead of it time (I have a like I'm over 80)" Bartow -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From gustav at cactus.dk Wed Mar 3 12:06:58 2004 From: gustav at cactus.dk (Gustav Brock) Date: Wed, 3 Mar 2004 19:06:58 +0100 Subject: [AccessD] notes on mdb bloat In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <335897577.20040303190658@cactus.dk> Hi Jim > My guess would be no. Note that Garry mentions that it stays bloated > until compact. That doesn't make sense. If the record locking algorithm > can work after the database is compacted, then why would it have to bloat it > in the first place? It just doesn't make sense from that standpoint. It could if you assume that - after compacting, when a record is opened for editing - it will be copied as a new and saved while the old is marked as deleted. But as you say, just guessing. > It does make sense though as to how they could achieve it with little > problem, as they are just duplicating a technique that many developers used > to get pseudo record level locking. It would be a simple matter to change > the add logic to always use an empty page (they in part had already done > that for JET 3.5). > So there's another reason why it's probably not that; if it were that > simple (one record per page), then why did we need a new version of JET? > Seems like something they could have put in A95 or A97 quite easily. Well, the implementation is slightly more complicated than bloating a row to fill a page. If I understand the article(s), the revised Jet engine maintains a flag which is set when any user requests row-level locking which forces subsequent users also to use row-level locking even if their default setting was for page-level locking. > With no docs, it's all guess work though. Yes, true. However, experimenting with this while watching the mdb file with an hex viewer/editor could tell a lot. I have neither the time nor the need for this, though ... /gustav > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Gustav Brock > Sent: Wednesday, March 03, 2004 12:11 PM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: Re: [AccessD] notes on mdb bloat > Hi all > Does this - simplified - boil down to, that all row-level locking does > compared to page-level locking is bloating a row to fill a page? > /gustav >> Hi Seth et all >> In Garry Robinson's newsletter I noted this extremely interesting topic: >> SINGLE RECORD LOCKING, BLOAT AND CITRIX BUGS >> Did you know that the record-level locking option (menu >> Tools~Options~Advanced) that is used by Access 2000 onwards has an >> interesting twist. To achieve a single record lock, each record that >> is locked uses up all of an Access page in the mdb file. This page of >> data, most of which will probably be empty for records with only a few >> fields, consumes 4000 bytes. This space is later recovered when the >> database is compacted but if you have a database that seems to expand >> fast, this could be your culprit. For more on this database bloat and >> a possible cure for Access corruptions for Citrix head to this page. >> http://ewbi.blogs.com/develops/2004/01/access_corrupti.html >> and an other blog on the same topic >> http://dbforums.com/arch/213/2002/10/551337 >> Gary is here: >> http://www.vb123.com/ >> /gustav >>> I hadn't even thought of that. I tried it just now, and the resulting >>> mdb is 1.5MB. Still three times as big as the A97 version, but not as >>> big as the base A2K version. >>> The unicode comments make sense, I had forgotten about that, too. >>> Oh well, more interesting info from the developer front... >>> Seth >>> On Wed, 2003-03-12 at 11:45, Gustav Brock wrote: >>>> Hi Seth >>>> >>>> What happens if you "forward port" the A97 version to A2000? >>>> >>>> /gustav From rl_stewart at highstream.net Wed Mar 3 12:16:39 2004 From: rl_stewart at highstream.net (Robert L. Stewart) Date: Wed, 03 Mar 2004 12:16:39 -0600 Subject: [AccessD] Re: Access 97 Application Startup In-Reply-To: <200403031654.i23GsaM21652@databaseadvisors.com> Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20040303121445.02ab7560@pop3.highstream.net> Barb, Is the token ring running at 4 or 12 mps? Token ring also has a lot of drivers loaded into memory especially if it is access an AS/400 machine. Which OS is he/you running? How many other programs are running when he does this? Robert At 10:54 AM 3/3/2004 -0600, you wrote: >Date: Wed, 3 Mar 2004 10:46:27 -0500 >From: "Barbara Ryan" >Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access 97 Application Startup >To: "Access Developers discussion and problem solving" > >Message-ID: <008601c40136$b0bdb160$0a00a8c0 at cx470148a> >Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" > >The application loads in 20 seconds on my computer. My client says the >application takes 2 minutes to load on his machine, which is connected to 3 >other computers via token ring (the backend database is shared). This >morning, however, he said the app took 20 seconds to load, but nobody else >was on the network. > >I don't think he uses Outlook, but I'll check. > >Barb From BarbaraRyan at cox.net Wed Mar 3 12:44:03 2004 From: BarbaraRyan at cox.net (Barbara Ryan) Date: Wed, 3 Mar 2004 13:44:03 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Re: Access 97 Application Startup References: <5.1.0.14.2.20040303121445.02ab7560@pop3.highstream.net> Message-ID: <002601c4014f$7ff010a0$0a00a8c0@cx470148a> I will need to check on the token ring speed. I am running on W98, and he has XP. Thanks, Barb ----- Original Message ----- From: "Robert L. Stewart" To: Sent: Wednesday, March 03, 2004 1:16 PM Subject: [AccessD] Re: Access 97 Application Startup > Barb, > > Is the token ring running at 4 or 12 mps? > Token ring also has a lot of drivers loaded into memory > especially if it is access an AS/400 machine. > > Which OS is he/you running? > > How many other programs are running when he does this? > > Robert > > At 10:54 AM 3/3/2004 -0600, you wrote: > >Date: Wed, 3 Mar 2004 10:46:27 -0500 > >From: "Barbara Ryan" > >Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access 97 Application Startup > >To: "Access Developers discussion and problem solving" > > > >Message-ID: <008601c40136$b0bdb160$0a00a8c0 at cx470148a> > >Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" > > > >The application loads in 20 seconds on my computer. My client says the > >application takes 2 minutes to load on his machine, which is connected to 3 > >other computers via token ring (the backend database is shared). This > >morning, however, he said the app took 20 seconds to load, but nobody else > >was on the network. > > > >I don't think he uses Outlook, but I'll check. > > > >Barb > > > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From martyconnelly at shaw.ca Wed Mar 3 13:24:56 2004 From: martyconnelly at shaw.ca (MartyConnelly) Date: Wed, 03 Mar 2004 11:24:56 -0800 Subject: AW: [AccessD] Database Operation from Remote Sites References: Message-ID: <40463108.5000300@shaw.ca> Have a look at this free software site, lots of help and tutorials http://www.genericdb.com It works as a basic ASP config page (setup database connection string,etc) then you run a series of asp wizards to view your database tables. and create your need asp pages. It has an added benefit It is multilingual. Helmut Kotsch wrote: >Good morning, >where could I find a sample / demo for the ASP approach? > >Regards Helmut Kotsch > >-----Urspr?ngliche Nachricht----- >Von: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com >[mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]Im Auftrag von >DWUTKA at marlow.com >Gesendet: Mittwoch, 11. Februar 2004 02:43 >An: accessd at databaseadvisors.com >Betreff: RE: [AccessD] Database Operation from Remote Sites > > >ASP is a very good approach for multi-site systems. The real question is >how complex is the data entry? If you are only talking about a few forms, >then ASP is the way to go. Have Site1 host the ASP pages, with the db on >their network. That would allow for no modifications necessary for the data >mining process. > >However, if the data entry is very complex, you may want to go with a >Citrix/TS approach. More costly to initially implement, but no real >'development' would be required. > >Drew > >-----Original Message----- >From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com >[mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of MACE, Terry >Sent: Tuesday, February 10, 2004 6:41 PM >To: 'AccessD at databaseadvisors.com' >Subject: [AccessD] Database Operation from Remote Sites > > >Hi all, > >I'm after some information on the best way to proceed with the expansion of >an existing Access97 database application which is used for maintenance >activity recording. > >My company currently runs this database at two sites, call them Site1 and >Site2. The BE is changed at Site2 as a function of its operations, each >night the BE is copied to Site1 where it is used for admin and data mining >purposes with the data acknowledged as being up to 24hrs out of date. This >has served the company well up to now as only one site can change the data. > >The company now want to expand the number of sites that use and i/p data. > >The new layout will have at least 4 sites. Site1 will be the admin and data >mining centre, Site2, 3, and 4 will i/p and change data. Sites 1, 2, and 3 >are on a WAN with Site3 being the companies main site and hosting the >companies Internet gateway. Site4 is overseas and not on the WAN. > >What I would like is some idea of the best approach - I have read a bit >about replication and ASP but have no practical experience with either. > >Thanks for any assistance. > > >Terry Mace >Logistic Support Officer & Maintenance Supervisor >BAE SYSTEMS >677 Victoria Street, >Abbotsford, VIC 3067 >Ph: +61 3 9208 0924 >Fax: +61 3 9208 0588 >Mailto: terry.mace at baesystems.com > > > > -- Marty Connelly Victoria, B.C. Canada From bchacc at san.rr.com Wed Mar 3 13:58:29 2004 From: bchacc at san.rr.com (Rocky Smolin - Beach Access Software) Date: Wed, 3 Mar 2004 11:58:29 -0800 Subject: [AccessD] Deployment References: <006901c40137$fc4cb0d0$6801a8c0@HAL9002> <003d01c4013a$ee518f70$6101a8c0@dejpolsys> <009401c4013e$bd2b7b00$6801a8c0@HAL9002> <001c01c40140$1b47c6c0$6101a8c0@dejpolsys> Message-ID: <015b01c40159$e5fc70a0$6801a8c0@HAL9002> And when you use it how big is the file? Rocky ----- Original Message ----- From: "William Hindman" To: "Access Developers discussion and problem solving" Sent: Wednesday, March 03, 2004 8:53 AM Subject: Re: [AccessD] Deployment > ...yeah, you need the ODE for XP ...but you can pick that up on e-bay pretty > cheap now ...but you need that whether you use wise/sagekey or the ODE > packaging wizard ...iirc the ODE has the runtime distribution license, not > the Office Pro pkg. > > William Hindman "My idea of an agreeable person is a person who agrees with > me." Disraeli > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Rocky Smolin - Beach Access Software" > To: "Access Developers discussion and problem solving" > > Sent: Wednesday, March 03, 2004 11:44 AM > Subject: Re: [AccessD] Deployment > > > > William: > > > > What's the overhead? How big is the package net of the mdb or mde itself? > > > > Did you have to buy a developer's license for AXP? > > > > Rocky > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: "William Hindman" > > To: "Access Developers discussion and problem solving" > > > > Sent: Wednesday, March 03, 2004 8:16 AM > > Subject: Re: [AccessD] Deployment > > > > > > > ...can't speak to 2000 but the deployment package in AXP was head over > > heels > > > better than the A97 version ...I've deployed more than a hundred AXP > > > runtimes with it without a hiccup ...hth :) > > > > > > William Hindman "My idea of an agreeable person is a person who agrees > > with > > > me." Disraeli > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > From: "Rocky Smolin - Beach Access Software" > > > To: > > > Sent: Wednesday, March 03, 2004 10:55 AM > > > Subject: [AccessD] Deployment > > > > > > > > > Dear List: > > > > > > I've got an app I'm developing for the consumer market and we're in beta > > > testing now. It's in A2K so all the betas have to have Access. > > > > > > Eventually it will have to be packaged as a run-time. But at that point > it > > > will be shrink-wrapped. > > > > > > In the short term we could expand our beta testing universe with a > > run-time. > > > So I'm trying to figure out the best way to do this. > > > > > > The problem AFAIK with the run-times is their size. Right now we can > > email > > > the mde to a beta tester and it's about 3-4MB. If I put up a run-time > on > > my > > > web site, beta testers are not likely to know how to do an FTP program. > > > > > > I suppose I could make a password protected folder on my web site, and > get > > > my web site developer to make the run-time downloadable or installable > > from > > > the site. I don't know how to do this. Maybe she does. > > > > > > I've got A97 developer's edition, Wise Installer, and the Sagekey script > > for > > > A97. But I don't think that the app can be converted back to A97. In > any > > > event, the total A97/Wise/Sagekey package runs to about 70MB IIRC. > > > > > > I could buy A2002 or A2003 if they've got a better deployment capability > > > than they've had in the past. > > > > > > What are your recommendations, suggestions, thoughts? > > > > > > Thanks in advance, > > > > > > Rocky Smolin > > > Beach Access Software > > > -- > > > _______________________________________________ > > > AccessD mailing list > > > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > > > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > > > > > > -- > > > _______________________________________________ > > > AccessD mailing list > > > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > > > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > > > > -- > > _______________________________________________ > > AccessD mailing list > > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > From my.lists at verizon.net Wed Mar 3 14:04:21 2004 From: my.lists at verizon.net (Francisco H Tapia) Date: Wed, 03 Mar 2004 12:04:21 -0800 Subject: [AccessD] Continous form based off a recordset In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <40463A45.2080509@verizon.net> maybe your mis-remembering right :D according to the doc's any ado (for adp) which derives from sqlserver is updatable in forms, and in an mdb, if it derives from access it is updatable, otherwise not... to side step the problem I dumped into an mdb w/ passthrough queries... now the question in mind is... How would you or someone: Launch the form in a 2nd MDB that is NOT linked?.. or does it need to become linked? (refrences) A sticking point is that the final adp is converted to an ADE, so I'd have to convert the MDB to MDE, which just bites.. :( anyone have code to automate that part ;o) Charlotte Foust wrote: >I didn't think forms bound to an ADO recordset were updateable in 2000 >period, MDB or ADP. Am I misremembering? > >Charlotte Foust > >-----Original Message----- >From: Francisco H Tapia [mailto:my.lists at verizon.net] >Sent: Wednesday, March 03, 2004 2:24 AM >To: AccessD >Subject: [AccessD] Continous form based off a recordset > > > >bottom line (SqlServer2000 + Access 2000 ADP) > >have a recordset in an ADP.. the data is from SqlServer and i've been >looking at the code all day (march 2) till now Mar3rd at 2am.... > >it's a sproc that joins across a udf and some subqueries... bottom line >Access doesn't see this as an updatable recordset... so I created a 2nd >sproc that takes these parameters and dumps it to a #tempTable > >however this sproc is still NOT updatable :( wtf! ... so.. > >I dimmed my variable RS as an adorecordset but still I get issues >because even if I create a disconnected RS, it cannot be bound to the >form unless I push the activeconnection property to it which then gives >me other issues >well it's 230am (practically) and i'm probably gonna crash now due to >exhaustion but if anyone can make sense and wants to drop me a line, >thanks I appreciate it... :D > > -- -Francisco From markamatte at hotmail.com Wed Mar 3 14:12:42 2004 From: markamatte at hotmail.com (Mark A Matte) Date: Wed, 03 Mar 2004 20:12:42 +0000 Subject: [AccessD] A2K: Filtering a pick list Message-ID: Hello All, I use something for a few dbs to allow the user to use search criteria on multiple fields...the can use just 1 or all 5...this technique could be used to filter a combo box... Lets say I have 4 dropdowns that I want to use as criteria for the main dropdown...I would create the following fields on my form: Drop1 Drop2 Drop3 Drop4 MainDrop Drop1Wild Drop2Wild Drop3Wild Drop4Wild All 'Wild' fields will be hidden and default value = '*' On the AFTERUPDATE of the Drop1-4...populate the corresponding 'wild'...Ex: ***** Dim Drop1Wild Drop1Wild= Me!Drop1.Text & Chr(42) Me!Drop1Wild= Drop1Wild Me!MainDrop.Requery ***** Then on my ROW SOURCE of MainDrop I would use something like: ******** SELECT DISTINCTROW tblChair.ID FROM tblChair WHERE (((tblChair.Drop1) Like [Forms]![frmPickChair]![Drop1Wild]) AND ((tblChair.Drop2) Like [Forms]![frmPickChair]![Drop2Wild]) AND ((tblChair.Drop3) Like [Forms]![frmPickChair]![Drop3Wild]) AND ((tblChair.Drop4) Like [Forms]![frmPickChair]![Drop4Wild]) ORDER BY tblChair.ID; ******* This will will allow them to use any combination of the other dropdowns you provided...and even if they remove a value they entered...the sql will see it as just a wildcard... I'm sure, as always, there is a simpler/better way...but it works for me. Hope it helps... Thanks, Mark A. Matte >From: "Ken Ismert" >Reply-To: Access Developers discussion and problem >solving >To: "'Access Developers discussion and problem >solving'" >Subject: RE: [AccessD] A2K: Filtering a pick list >Date: Wed, 3 Mar 2004 11:34:11 -0600 > > > I'm a man, who manufactures, > who manufactures chairs. > I'm a man who manufactures > chairs and other wares. > I'm a man, who manufactures! > >There is an efficient way to do this without building a custom WHERE >clause. >You need to make a WHERE clause for your original listbox query that works >for every combination of combobox values. > >Take cboSuppliers, for example. You want it to restrict to a single >Supplier >when a value is selected, but show all Suppliers when no value (Null) is >selected. A WHERE expression that does this is: > WHERE Nz(tblChairs.SupplierID = [Forms]![frmChairs]![cboSuppliers], >True) >= True > >When cboSuppliers has a value, this will return chairs only for that >SupplierID. When cboSuppliers is Null, the Nz function will return True for >all SupplierIDs. (Value = Null returns Null in all instances.) > >So, your full WHERE clause would be: > WHERE (Nz(tblChairs.SupplierID = [Forms]![frmChairs]![cboSuppliers], >True) >= True) > AND (Nz(tblChairs.BackTypeID = [Forms]![frmChairs]![cboBackTypes], >True) >= True) > AND (Nz(tblChairs.RangeID = [Forms]![frmChairs]![cboRanges], True) = >True) > AND (Nz(tblChairs.StyleID = [Forms]![frmChairs]![cboStyles], True) = >True) > >In the AfterUpdate event of each combo, your code to implement couldn't be >simpler: > lstChairs.Requery > >You could also introduce a Clear button, which would reset your filter in >its Click event: > cboSuppliers.Value = Null > cboBackTypes.Value = Null > cboRanges.Value = Null > cboStyles.Value = Null > lstChairs.Requery > >You will find this faster than forcing the listbox or subform to parse the >RowSource SQL every time a filter combobox changes. This works well even >for >large tables, as long as the fields you are filtering on are properly >indexed. > >Note that this technique works best for fields that do not allow nulls, >like >keys. With slight modifications, you can get it to work for nullable >fields. > >Plus, for subforms, you have the advantage of allowing the user to filter >the subform themselves, since you are not using the form's Filter property. >This has saved me from having to recode a form because someone wanted a >custom way of looking at the data. > >-Ken > >(my apologies to Mister Rogers) > > >-----Original Message----- >From: Darren DICK [mailto:d.dick at uws.edu.au] >Sent: Wednesday, March 03, 2004 5:17 AM >To: AccessD List >Subject: [AccessD] A2K: Filtering a pick list > > >Hello all >I have a very large list box that lists all the products (in this case >chairs) in a db >Each chair in tblChairs has many fields but in this case the ones I am >interested >in are ChairID, SupplierID, BackTypeID, RangeID, StyleID > >So on the same form as this very large list box of chairs, I have combo >boxes - >yep you guessed it - 4 of 'em - cboSuppliers, cboBackTypes, cboRanges, >cboStyleID > >I wanna filter the large list box based on the values in all or any >combination of the combo boxes. > >EG >Say supplier 5 = Acme Manufacturing and in the whole dB there are 100 >chairs >made by Acme >Say of that 100 that Acme produce 38 of em have a Backtype of 2 (as in Low >=1 medium=2 High=3 etc) > >I would want the large list to instantly decrease to 100 items if I >selected >Acme from the Suppliers combo. >Then I would want that list to further decreas to 38 when I choose Medium >back >PSUEDo = show me evert chair in the dB with supplier ID = 5 and BackType = >2 >etc etc and then somehow accept the various combinations of combo choices. > >Is there a clever or easy way of doing this without writing a zillion sql's >then selecting the correct one >and making it the listbox row source? > >Many thanks in advance > >Darren > > > > >-- >_______________________________________________ >AccessD mailing list >AccessD at databaseadvisors.com >http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd >Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com _________________________________________________________________ Get a FREE online computer virus scan from McAfee when you click here. http://clinic.mcafee.com/clinic/ibuy/campaign.asp?cid=3963 From wdhindman at bellsouth.net Wed Mar 3 15:22:33 2004 From: wdhindman at bellsouth.net (William Hindman) Date: Wed, 3 Mar 2004 16:22:33 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] notes on mdb bloat References: <335897577.20040303190658@cactus.dk> Message-ID: <006001c40165$a4826470$6101a8c0@dejpolsys> ...where is Jurgen when we need him? ...this is right up his alley :( William Hindman "My idea of an agreeable person is a person who agrees with me." Disraeli ----- Original Message ----- From: "Gustav Brock" To: "Access Developers discussion and problem solving" Sent: Wednesday, March 03, 2004 1:06 PM Subject: Re: [AccessD] notes on mdb bloat > Hi Jim > > > My guess would be no. Note that Garry mentions that it stays bloated > > until compact. That doesn't make sense. If the record locking algorithm > > can work after the database is compacted, then why would it have to bloat it > > in the first place? It just doesn't make sense from that standpoint. > > It could if you assume that - after compacting, when a record is opened > for editing - it will be copied as a new and saved while the old is > marked as deleted. But as you say, just guessing. > > > It does make sense though as to how they could achieve it with little > > problem, as they are just duplicating a technique that many developers used > > to get pseudo record level locking. It would be a simple matter to change > > the add logic to always use an empty page (they in part had already done > > that for JET 3.5). > > > So there's another reason why it's probably not that; if it were that > > simple (one record per page), then why did we need a new version of JET? > > Seems like something they could have put in A95 or A97 quite easily. > > Well, the implementation is slightly more complicated than bloating a > row to fill a page. If I understand the article(s), the revised Jet > engine maintains a flag which is set when any user requests row-level > locking which forces subsequent users also to use row-level locking > even if their default setting was for page-level locking. > > > With no docs, it's all guess work though. > > Yes, true. However, experimenting with this while watching the mdb file > with an hex viewer/editor could tell a lot. I have neither the time > nor the need for this, though ... > > /gustav > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Gustav Brock > > Sent: Wednesday, March 03, 2004 12:11 PM > > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > > Subject: Re: [AccessD] notes on mdb bloat > > > > Hi all > > > Does this - simplified - boil down to, that all row-level locking does > > compared to page-level locking is bloating a row to fill a page? > > > /gustav > > > >> Hi Seth et all > > >> In Garry Robinson's newsletter I noted this extremely interesting topic: > > > >> SINGLE RECORD LOCKING, BLOAT AND CITRIX BUGS > > >> Did you know that the record-level locking option (menu > >> Tools~Options~Advanced) that is used by Access 2000 onwards has an > >> interesting twist. To achieve a single record lock, each record that > >> is locked uses up all of an Access page in the mdb file. This page of > >> data, most of which will probably be empty for records with only a few > >> fields, consumes 4000 bytes. This space is later recovered when the > >> database is compacted but if you have a database that seems to expand > >> fast, this could be your culprit. For more on this database bloat and > >> a possible cure for Access corruptions for Citrix head to this page. > > >> http://ewbi.blogs.com/develops/2004/01/access_corrupti.html > > >> and an other blog on the same topic > >> http://dbforums.com/arch/213/2002/10/551337 > > >> Gary is here: > > >> http://www.vb123.com/ > > >> /gustav > > > >>> I hadn't even thought of that. I tried it just now, and the resulting > >>> mdb is 1.5MB. Still three times as big as the A97 version, but not as > >>> big as the base A2K version. > > >>> The unicode comments make sense, I had forgotten about that, too. > > >>> Oh well, more interesting info from the developer front... > > >>> Seth > > >>> On Wed, 2003-03-12 at 11:45, Gustav Brock wrote: > >>>> Hi Seth > >>>> > >>>> What happens if you "forward port" the A97 version to A2000? > >>>> > >>>> /gustav > > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > From wdhindman at bellsouth.net Wed Mar 3 15:26:02 2004 From: wdhindman at bellsouth.net (William Hindman) Date: Wed, 3 Mar 2004 16:26:02 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Deployment References: <006901c40137$fc4cb0d0$6801a8c0@HAL9002><003d01c4013a$ee518f70$6101a8c0@dejpolsys><009401c4013e$bd2b7b00$6801a8c0@HAL9002><001c01c40140$1b47c6c0$6101a8c0@dejpolsys> <015b01c40159$e5fc70a0$6801a8c0@HAL9002> Message-ID: <006601c40166$212f5aa0$6101a8c0@dejpolsys> ...total is more than 50mb ...plus your app mdb/mde. :( William Hindman "My idea of an agreeable person is a person who agrees with me." Disraeli ----- Original Message ----- From: "Rocky Smolin - Beach Access Software" To: "Access Developers discussion and problem solving" Sent: Wednesday, March 03, 2004 2:58 PM Subject: Re: [AccessD] Deployment > And when you use it how big is the file? > > Rocky > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "William Hindman" > To: "Access Developers discussion and problem solving" > > Sent: Wednesday, March 03, 2004 8:53 AM > Subject: Re: [AccessD] Deployment > > > > ...yeah, you need the ODE for XP ...but you can pick that up on e-bay > pretty > > cheap now ...but you need that whether you use wise/sagekey or the ODE > > packaging wizard ...iirc the ODE has the runtime distribution license, not > > the Office Pro pkg. > > > > William Hindman "My idea of an agreeable person is a person who agrees > with > > me." Disraeli > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: "Rocky Smolin - Beach Access Software" > > To: "Access Developers discussion and problem solving" > > > > Sent: Wednesday, March 03, 2004 11:44 AM > > Subject: Re: [AccessD] Deployment > > > > > > > William: > > > > > > What's the overhead? How big is the package net of the mdb or mde > itself? > > > > > > Did you have to buy a developer's license for AXP? > > > > > > Rocky > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > From: "William Hindman" > > > To: "Access Developers discussion and problem solving" > > > > > > Sent: Wednesday, March 03, 2004 8:16 AM > > > Subject: Re: [AccessD] Deployment > > > > > > > > > > ...can't speak to 2000 but the deployment package in AXP was head over > > > heels > > > > better than the A97 version ...I've deployed more than a hundred AXP > > > > runtimes with it without a hiccup ...hth :) > > > > > > > > William Hindman "My idea of an agreeable person is a person who agrees > > > with > > > > me." Disraeli > > > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > > From: "Rocky Smolin - Beach Access Software" > > > > To: > > > > Sent: Wednesday, March 03, 2004 10:55 AM > > > > Subject: [AccessD] Deployment > > > > > > > > > > > > Dear List: > > > > > > > > I've got an app I'm developing for the consumer market and we're in > beta > > > > testing now. It's in A2K so all the betas have to have Access. > > > > > > > > Eventually it will have to be packaged as a run-time. But at that > point > > it > > > > will be shrink-wrapped. > > > > > > > > In the short term we could expand our beta testing universe with a > > > run-time. > > > > So I'm trying to figure out the best way to do this. > > > > > > > > The problem AFAIK with the run-times is their size. Right now we can > > > email > > > > the mde to a beta tester and it's about 3-4MB. If I put up a run-time > > on > > > my > > > > web site, beta testers are not likely to know how to do an FTP > program. > > > > > > > > I suppose I could make a password protected folder on my web site, and > > get > > > > my web site developer to make the run-time downloadable or installable > > > from > > > > the site. I don't know how to do this. Maybe she does. > > > > > > > > I've got A97 developer's edition, Wise Installer, and the Sagekey > script > > > for > > > > A97. But I don't think that the app can be converted back to A97. In > > any > > > > event, the total A97/Wise/Sagekey package runs to about 70MB IIRC. > > > > > > > > I could buy A2002 or A2003 if they've got a better deployment > capability > > > > than they've had in the past. > > > > > > > > What are your recommendations, suggestions, thoughts? > > > > > > > > Thanks in advance, > > > > > > > > Rocky Smolin > > > > Beach Access Software > > > > -- > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > > AccessD mailing list > > > > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > > > > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > > > > > > > > > -- > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > > AccessD mailing list > > > > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > > > > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > > > > > > > -- > > > _______________________________________________ > > > AccessD mailing list > > > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > > > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > > > > > > -- > > _______________________________________________ > > AccessD mailing list > > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > From HollisVJ at pgdp.usec.com Wed Mar 3 15:29:24 2004 From: HollisVJ at pgdp.usec.com (Hollis,Virginia) Date: Wed, 03 Mar 2004 15:29:24 -0600 Subject: [AccessD] Add All to List Message-ID: <618EB4D6DDCDD3119B0A00508B6FD37A0CB0D226@cntexchange.pgdp.usec.com> I don't know what I am doing wrong.... The all shows at the top of the list, but All the records do not show on the subform. The combobox is still showing the first record when it opens and the subform is filtered for that record. What makes the All part of "ALL" in the combo box work? Virginia -----Original Message----- From: William Hindman [mailto:wdhindman at bellsouth.net] Sent: Wednesday, March 03, 2004 8:09 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Add All to List Virginia ...use a UNION SELECT in the combo record source to add an ALL. ...example: SELECT DISTINCTROW Customers.Company, Customers.[Customer Number] FROM Customers UNION SELECT "","" FROM Customers ORDER BY Customers.Company; William Hindman "My idea of an agreeable person is a person who agrees with me." Disraeli ----- Original Message ----- From: "Hollis,Virginia" To: Sent: Wednesday, March 03, 2004 8:45 AM Subject: [AccessD] Add All to List > How do you add All to List? This form contains 2 combo boxes on a main form. > Selecting data shows data on a subform for the related combo box choices. > > I need to either have an All in the combo boxes or when the form opens, I > would like them to be blank. > > I tried this code in the On Open of the main form, but it still opens to > the first record with entries in both combo boxes. > > With Me > .cboNCSANo = "" > .cboProcedure = "" > End With > > Virginia > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From bruce_bruen at mlc.com.au Wed Mar 3 15:46:46 2004 From: bruce_bruen at mlc.com.au (bruce_bruen at mlc.com.au) Date: Thu, 4 Mar 2004 08:46:46 +1100 Subject: [AccessD] Re: Create scripts: CreateTable? Message-ID: Sander, I dont know where you could find it but the tool you need is called "Table Code Creator" - tbcc???.mda that used to be around for A97. You will need to update the code to suit later versions. I think it was a MS download but it could have been from (memory fails me guys! - where did the list used to live???)... Bruce S D To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Sent by: accessd-bounces at databasea cc: dvisors.com Subject: RE: [AccessD] Re: Create scripts: CreateTable? 04/03/2004 00:13 Please respond to Access Developers discussion and problem solving thnx for the replies. History: I work for company A and I'm stationed at Customer B. I'm hired by Customer B to develop stuff. Customer B has also hired company C to implement/migrate changes. Company C has a rule that they ONLY use scripts to implement/migrate changes that can be run by 'ZERO-KNOWLEDGE-USERS'!! That is why I need a piece of code to generate CreateTable scripts. I need this piece of code in Access 2000. if anybody neesd any more info don't hesitate to ask. Regards, Sander Developer wrote: Robert: I thought that at first, but if that was the case, why not just send the client the empty .mdb? Communication is key ... Lol Steve -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Robert L. Stewart Sent: Tuesday, March 02, 2004 1:13 PM To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: [AccessD] Re: Create scripts: CreateTable? Steve, I believe he was asking about a way of doing it in Access, like the way SQL Server can do it. Robert At 10:59 AM 3/2/2004 -0600, you wrote: >Date: Tue, 2 Mar 2004 10:40:58 -0500 >From: "Developer" >Subject: RE: [AccessD] Create scripts: CreateTable? >To: "'Access Developers discussion and problem solving'" > >Message-ID: <000501c4006c$c5294260$7001a8c0 at COA3> >Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" > >There is absolutely something like it, in MS-SQL 7.0 or 2000 (it's >likely in 6.5 too, I just don't remember). In Enterprise Manager >(2000), you right click on the development database, then "All Tasks", >"Generate SQL Script...". Select any objects you want scripted >(including sp's, views, etc.) and EM will generate a text file you can >run in Query Analyzer on the production server. I use this all the >time to develop one server and deploy on another. If you are quicker >at Access tables, you may want to do your tables there, use the SQL >upsize wizard, then generate the script (watch for data-type conversion >quirks, however, going from Access to SQL with the wizard). Books >Online will give all the details for script generation. > >Hth >Steve -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com --------------------------------- Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Search - Find what you?re looking for faster. -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From wdhindman at bellsouth.net Wed Mar 3 16:07:09 2004 From: wdhindman at bellsouth.net (William Hindman) Date: Wed, 3 Mar 2004 17:07:09 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Add All to List References: <618EB4D6DDCDD3119B0A00508B6FD37A0CB0D226@cntexchange.pgdp.usec.com> Message-ID: <008301c4016b$dfbcd740$6101a8c0@dejpolsys> ...the easiest way is to "if" the combo's after update event :) After Update Event cboCustomer If Me![cboCustomer] = "" Then DoCmd ShowAllRecords Else DoCmd ApplyFilter , "[State] = Forms![cboCustomer]![cboCustomer]" End If William Hindman "My idea of an agreeable person is a person who agrees with me." Disraeli ----- Original Message ----- From: "Hollis,Virginia" To: "'Access Developers discussion and problem solving'" Sent: Wednesday, March 03, 2004 4:29 PM Subject: RE: [AccessD] Add All to List > I don't know what I am doing wrong.... The all shows at the top of the list, > but All the records do not show on the subform. The combobox is still > showing the first record when it opens and the subform is filtered for that > record. > > What makes the All part of "ALL" in the combo box work? > > Virginia > > -----Original Message----- > From: William Hindman [mailto:wdhindman at bellsouth.net] > Sent: Wednesday, March 03, 2004 8:09 AM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: Re: [AccessD] Add All to List > > > Virginia > > ...use a UNION SELECT in the combo record source to add an ALL. > > ...example: > > SELECT DISTINCTROW Customers.Company, Customers.[Customer Number] FROM > Customers UNION SELECT "","" FROM Customers ORDER BY Customers.Company; > > William Hindman "My idea of an agreeable person is a person who agrees with > me." Disraeli > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Hollis,Virginia" > To: > Sent: Wednesday, March 03, 2004 8:45 AM > Subject: [AccessD] Add All to List > > > > How do you add All to List? This form contains 2 combo boxes on a main > form. > > Selecting data shows data on a subform for the related combo box choices. > > > > I need to either have an All in the combo boxes or when the form opens, I > > would like them to be blank. > > > > I tried this code in the On Open of the main form, but it still opens to > > the first record with entries in both combo boxes. > > > > With Me > > .cboNCSANo = "" > > .cboProcedure = "" > > End With > > > > Virginia > > -- > > _______________________________________________ > > AccessD mailing list > > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > From pedro at plex.nl Wed Mar 3 16:35:11 2004 From: pedro at plex.nl (Pedro Janssen) Date: Wed, 3 Mar 2004 23:35:11 +0100 Subject: [AccessD] increasing backend Message-ID: <005101c4016f$cb822c40$f2c581d5@pedro> Hello Group, how is it possible that a backend-database increases from 5 to 17 Mb, when only a few records are added. After compiling it was again 5 Mb. Pedro Janssen From my.lists at verizon.net Wed Mar 3 16:58:31 2004 From: my.lists at verizon.net (Francisco H Tapia) Date: Wed, 03 Mar 2004 14:58:31 -0800 Subject: [AccessD] increasing backend In-Reply-To: <005101c4016f$cb822c40$f2c581d5@pedro> References: <005101c4016f$cb822c40$f2c581d5@pedro> Message-ID: <40466317.80708@verizon.net> Pedro Janssen wrote: >Hello Group, > >how is it possible that a backend-database increases from 5 to 17 Mb, when only a few records are added. After compiling it was again 5 Mb. > >Pedro Janssen > > Those are the joy's of database bloat :) -- -Francisco From d.dick at uws.edu.au Wed Mar 3 18:12:57 2004 From: d.dick at uws.edu.au (Darren DICK) Date: Thu, 4 Mar 2004 11:12:57 +1100 Subject: [AccessD] A2K: Filtering a pick list References: <007001c40145$bdd59980$2a3ca8c0@TEXASSYSTEMS.COM> Message-ID: <025401c4017d$756bdf00$48619a89@DDICK> No Archive Thanks you all to those who responded It's working like a charm This list is Awesome DD ----- Original Message ----- From: "Ken Ismert" To: "'Access Developers discussion and problem solving'" Sent: Thursday, March 04, 2004 4:34 AM Subject: RE: [AccessD] A2K: Filtering a pick list > > I'm a man, who manufactures, > who manufactures chairs. > I'm a man who manufactures > chairs and other wares. > I'm a man, who manufactures! > > There is an efficient way to do this without building a custom WHERE clause. > You need to make a WHERE clause for your original listbox query that works > for every combination of combobox values. > > Take cboSuppliers, for example. You want it to restrict to a single Supplier > when a value is selected, but show all Suppliers when no value (Null) is > selected. A WHERE expression that does this is: > WHERE Nz(tblChairs.SupplierID = [Forms]![frmChairs]![cboSuppliers], True) > = True > > When cboSuppliers has a value, this will return chairs only for that > SupplierID. When cboSuppliers is Null, the Nz function will return True for > all SupplierIDs. (Value = Null returns Null in all instances.) > > So, your full WHERE clause would be: > WHERE (Nz(tblChairs.SupplierID = [Forms]![frmChairs]![cboSuppliers], True) > = True) > AND (Nz(tblChairs.BackTypeID = [Forms]![frmChairs]![cboBackTypes], True) > = True) > AND (Nz(tblChairs.RangeID = [Forms]![frmChairs]![cboRanges], True) = > True) > AND (Nz(tblChairs.StyleID = [Forms]![frmChairs]![cboStyles], True) = > True) > > In the AfterUpdate event of each combo, your code to implement couldn't be > simpler: > lstChairs.Requery > > You could also introduce a Clear button, which would reset your filter in > its Click event: > cboSuppliers.Value = Null > cboBackTypes.Value = Null > cboRanges.Value = Null > cboStyles.Value = Null > lstChairs.Requery > > You will find this faster than forcing the listbox or subform to parse the > RowSource SQL every time a filter combobox changes. This works well even for > large tables, as long as the fields you are filtering on are properly > indexed. > > Note that this technique works best for fields that do not allow nulls, like > keys. With slight modifications, you can get it to work for nullable fields. > > Plus, for subforms, you have the advantage of allowing the user to filter > the subform themselves, since you are not using the form's Filter property. > This has saved me from having to recode a form because someone wanted a > custom way of looking at the data. > > -Ken > > (my apologies to Mister Rogers) > > > -----Original Message----- > From: Darren DICK [mailto:d.dick at uws.edu.au] > Sent: Wednesday, March 03, 2004 5:17 AM > To: AccessD List > Subject: [AccessD] A2K: Filtering a pick list > > > Hello all > I have a very large list box that lists all the products (in this case > chairs) in a db > Each chair in tblChairs has many fields but in this case the ones I am > interested > in are ChairID, SupplierID, BackTypeID, RangeID, StyleID > > So on the same form as this very large list box of chairs, I have combo > boxes - > yep you guessed it - 4 of 'em - cboSuppliers, cboBackTypes, cboRanges, > cboStyleID > > I wanna filter the large list box based on the values in all or any > combination of the combo boxes. > > EG > Say supplier 5 = Acme Manufacturing and in the whole dB there are 100 chairs > made by Acme > Say of that 100 that Acme produce 38 of em have a Backtype of 2 (as in Low > =1 medium=2 High=3 etc) > > I would want the large list to instantly decrease to 100 items if I selected > Acme from the Suppliers combo. > Then I would want that list to further decreas to 38 when I choose Medium > back > PSUEDo = show me evert chair in the dB with supplier ID = 5 and BackType = 2 > etc etc and then somehow accept the various combinations of combo choices. > > Is there a clever or easy way of doing this without writing a zillion sql's > then selecting the correct one > and making it the listbox row source? > > Many thanks in advance > > Darren > > > > > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From jwelz at hotmail.com Wed Mar 3 18:18:00 2004 From: jwelz at hotmail.com (Jürgen Welz) Date: Wed, 03 Mar 2004 17:18:00 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] notes on mdb bloat Message-ID: I'd just compare two mdb files with 8 text fields, no indexes, 250 characters per field plus an autonumber field (unicode compression off) vs the same data structure but with no data in the text fields. A quick loop of 100,000 iterations to fill the tables with a constant string of 250 characters in each field vs just adding empty strings to the test database. Compact and draw your own conclusions. I would then run a routine to add a single character to one of the fields in the empty text database to see if it immediately swells back to the same size as the other database and draw further conclusions. It would have taken less time to run this test than to write this email but I believe we should all learn to fish and I saw William's frown. Most of my stuff is still Access 97 and all my 2000 stuff has been in limited number of user environments so I haven't worked with record level locking. I have run my own lock table/field when running unbound and that may prove to be more efficient from a bloat standpoint. I may just run this test this weekend but I am so busy right now that I'm deleting the vast majority of messages from the list right now. Ciao J?rgen Welz Edmonton, Alberta jwelz at hotmail.com >From: "William Hindman" > >...where is Jurgen when we need him? ...this is right up his alley :( > >William Hindman "My idea of an agreeable person is a person who agrees with >me." Disraeli > >----- Original Message ----- >From: "Gustav Brock" >To: "Access Developers discussion and problem solving" > >Sent: Wednesday, March 03, 2004 1:06 PM >Subject: Re: [AccessD] notes on mdb bloat > > > > Hi Jim > > > > > My guess would be no. Note that Garry mentions that it stays >bloated > > > until compact. That doesn't make sense. If the record locking >algorithm > > > can work after the database is compacted, then why would it have to >bloat it > > > in the first place? It just doesn't make sense from that standpoint. > > > > It could if you assume that - after compacting, when a record is opened > > for editing - it will be copied as a new and saved while the old is > > marked as deleted. But as you say, just guessing. > > > > > It does make sense though as to how they could achieve it with >little > > > problem, as they are just duplicating a technique that many developers >used > > > to get pseudo record level locking. It would be a simple matter to >change > > > the add logic to always use an empty page (they in part had already >done > > > that for JET 3.5). > > > > > So there's another reason why it's probably not that; if it were >that > > > simple (one record per page), then why did we need a new version of >JET? > > > Seems like something they could have put in A95 or A97 quite easily. > > > > Well, the implementation is slightly more complicated than bloating a > > row to fill a page. If I understand the article(s), the revised Jet > > engine maintains a flag which is set when any user requests row-level > > locking which forces subsequent users also to use row-level locking > > even if their default setting was for page-level locking. > > > > > With no docs, it's all guess work though. > > > > Yes, true. However, experimenting with this while watching the mdb file > > with an hex viewer/editor could tell a lot. I have neither the time > > nor the need for this, though ... > > > > /gustav > > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > > > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Gustav Brock > > > Sent: Wednesday, March 03, 2004 12:11 PM > > > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > > > Subject: Re: [AccessD] notes on mdb bloat > > > > > > > Hi all > > > > > Does this - simplified - boil down to, that all row-level locking does > > > compared to page-level locking is bloating a row to fill a page? > > > > > /gustav > > > > > > >> Hi Seth et all > > > > >> In Garry Robinson's newsletter I noted this extremely interesting >topic: > > > > > > >> SINGLE RECORD LOCKING, BLOAT AND CITRIX BUGS > > > > >> Did you know that the record-level locking option (menu > > >> Tools~Options~Advanced) that is used by Access 2000 onwards has an > > >> interesting twist. To achieve a single record lock, each record that > > >> is locked uses up all of an Access page in the mdb file. This page of > > >> data, most of which will probably be empty for records with only a >few > > >> fields, consumes 4000 bytes. This space is later recovered when the > > >> database is compacted but if you have a database that seems to expand > > >> fast, this could be your culprit. For more on this database bloat and > > >> a possible cure for Access corruptions for Citrix head to this page. > > > > >> http://ewbi.blogs.com/develops/2004/01/access_corrupti.html > > > > >> and an other blog on the same topic > > >> http://dbforums.com/arch/213/2002/10/551337 > > > > >> Gary is here: > > > > >> http://www.vb123.com/ > > > > >> /gustav > > > > > > >>> I hadn't even thought of that. I tried it just now, and the >resulting > > >>> mdb is 1.5MB. Still three times as big as the A97 version, but not >as > > >>> big as the base A2K version. > > > > >>> The unicode comments make sense, I had forgotten about that, too. > > > > >>> Oh well, more interesting info from the developer front... > > > > >>> Seth > > > > >>> On Wed, 2003-03-12 at 11:45, Gustav Brock wrote: > > >>>> Hi Seth > > >>>> > > >>>> What happens if you "forward port" the A97 version to A2000? > > >>>> > > >>>> /gustav _________________________________________________________________ The new MSN 8: advanced junk mail protection and 2 months FREE* http://join.msn.com/?page=dept/bcomm&pgmarket=en-ca&RU=http%3a%2f%2fjoin.msn.com%2f%3fpage%3dmisc%2fspecialoffers%26pgmarket%3den-ca From martyconnelly at shaw.ca Wed Mar 3 18:15:49 2004 From: martyconnelly at shaw.ca (MartyConnelly) Date: Wed, 03 Mar 2004 16:15:49 -0800 Subject: [AccessD] notes on mdb bloat References: <335897577.20040303190658@cactus.dk> <006001c40165$a4826470$6101a8c0@dejpolsys> Message-ID: <40467535.8090602@shaw.ca> There was an article on this in Access Advisor around 98 or 99, most of it revolved around the use of Temp queries with the solution being putting them in a separate mdb. Ahh got it. Feb 98 Alan Biggs "the Mystery of the bloated database". . If you constrain the recordset of a form by setting an SQL statement from code into the recordsource of a form, the mdb grows. Access implicitly creates a temporary querydef and inserts it into your SQL statement. If you have a client server system where you dynamically modify SQL pass through queries from an ODBC datasource. the mdb grows. Each time the SQL text is changed, its querydef is deleted and a new one with the samed name is created at the EOF, thus enlarging the mdb William Hindman wrote: >...where is Jurgen when we need him? ...this is right up his alley :( > >William Hindman "My idea of an agreeable person is a person who agrees with >me." Disraeli > >----- Original Message ----- >From: "Gustav Brock" >To: "Access Developers discussion and problem solving" > >Sent: Wednesday, March 03, 2004 1:06 PM >Subject: Re: [AccessD] notes on mdb bloat > > > > >>Hi Jim >> >> >> >>> My guess would be no. Note that Garry mentions that it stays bloated >>>until compact. That doesn't make sense. If the record locking >>> >>> >algorithm > > >>>can work after the database is compacted, then why would it have to >>> >>> >bloat it > > >>>in the first place? It just doesn't make sense from that standpoint. >>> >>> >>It could if you assume that - after compacting, when a record is opened >>for editing - it will be copied as a new and saved while the old is >>marked as deleted. But as you say, just guessing. >> >> >> >>> It does make sense though as to how they could achieve it with little >>>problem, as they are just duplicating a technique that many developers >>> >>> >used > > >>>to get pseudo record level locking. It would be a simple matter to >>> >>> >change > > >>>the add logic to always use an empty page (they in part had already done >>>that for JET 3.5). >>> >>> >>> So there's another reason why it's probably not that; if it were that >>>simple (one record per page), then why did we need a new version of JET? >>>Seems like something they could have put in A95 or A97 quite easily. >>> >>> >>Well, the implementation is slightly more complicated than bloating a >>row to fill a page. If I understand the article(s), the revised Jet >>engine maintains a flag which is set when any user requests row-level >>locking which forces subsequent users also to use row-level locking >>even if their default setting was for page-level locking. >> >> >> >>> With no docs, it's all guess work though. >>> >>> >>Yes, true. However, experimenting with this while watching the mdb file >>with an hex viewer/editor could tell a lot. I have neither the time >>nor the need for this, though ... >> >>/gustav >> >> >> >> >> >>>-----Original Message----- >>>From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com >>>[mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Gustav Brock >>>Sent: Wednesday, March 03, 2004 12:11 PM >>>To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving >>>Subject: Re: [AccessD] notes on mdb bloat >>> >>> >> >> >>>Hi all >>> >>> >>>Does this - simplified - boil down to, that all row-level locking does >>>compared to page-level locking is bloating a row to fill a page? >>> >>> >>>/gustav >>> >>> >> >> >>>>Hi Seth et all >>>> >>>> >>>>In Garry Robinson's newsletter I noted this extremely interesting >>>> >>>> >topic: > > >> >> >>>>SINGLE RECORD LOCKING, BLOAT AND CITRIX BUGS >>>> >>>> >>>>Did you know that the record-level locking option (menu >>>>Tools~Options~Advanced) that is used by Access 2000 onwards has an >>>>interesting twist. To achieve a single record lock, each record that >>>>is locked uses up all of an Access page in the mdb file. This page of >>>>data, most of which will probably be empty for records with only a few >>>>fields, consumes 4000 bytes. This space is later recovered when the >>>>database is compacted but if you have a database that seems to expand >>>>fast, this could be your culprit. For more on this database bloat and >>>>a possible cure for Access corruptions for Citrix head to this page. >>>> >>>> >>>>http://ewbi.blogs.com/develops/2004/01/access_corrupti.html >>>> >>>> >>>>and an other blog on the same topic >>>>http://dbforums.com/arch/213/2002/10/551337 >>>> >>>> >>>>Gary is here: >>>> >>>> >>>>http://www.vb123.com/ >>>> >>>> >>>>/gustav >>>> >>>> >> >> >>>>>I hadn't even thought of that. I tried it just now, and the resulting >>>>>mdb is 1.5MB. Still three times as big as the A97 version, but not as >>>>>big as the base A2K version. >>>>> >>>>> >>>>>The unicode comments make sense, I had forgotten about that, too. >>>>> >>>>> >>>>>Oh well, more interesting info from the developer front... >>>>> >>>>> >>>>>Seth >>>>> >>>>> >>>>>On Wed, 2003-03-12 at 11:45, Gustav Brock wrote: >>>>> >>>>> >>>>>>Hi Seth >>>>>> >>>>>>What happens if you "forward port" the A97 version to A2000? >>>>>> >>>>>>/gustav >>>>>> >>>>>> >>-- >>_______________________________________________ >>AccessD mailing list >>AccessD at databaseadvisors.com >>http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd >>Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com >> >> >> > > > > -- Marty Connelly Victoria, B.C. Canada From martyconnelly at shaw.ca Wed Mar 3 18:19:44 2004 From: martyconnelly at shaw.ca (MartyConnelly) Date: Wed, 03 Mar 2004 16:19:44 -0800 Subject: [AccessD] Deployment References: <006901c40137$fc4cb0d0$6801a8c0@HAL9002> <003d01c4013a$ee518f70$6101a8c0@dejpolsys> <009401c4013e$bd2b7b00$6801a8c0@HAL9002> <001c01c40140$1b47c6c0$6101a8c0@dejpolsys> <015b01c40159$e5fc70a0$6801a8c0@HAL9002> Message-ID: <40467620.8040401@shaw.ca> Roughly a ballpark figure for Access 2000 50 MB + or 70MB+ if you don't drop IE5 install. XP should be similar. Rocky Smolin - Beach Access Software wrote: >And when you use it how big is the file? > >Rocky > >----- Original Message ----- >From: "William Hindman" >To: "Access Developers discussion and problem solving" > >Sent: Wednesday, March 03, 2004 8:53 AM >Subject: Re: [AccessD] Deployment > > > > >>...yeah, you need the ODE for XP ...but you can pick that up on e-bay >> >> >pretty > > >>cheap now ...but you need that whether you use wise/sagekey or the ODE >>packaging wizard ...iirc the ODE has the runtime distribution license, not >>the Office Pro pkg. >> >>William Hindman "My idea of an agreeable person is a person who agrees >> >> >with > > >>me." Disraeli >> >>----- Original Message ----- >>From: "Rocky Smolin - Beach Access Software" >>To: "Access Developers discussion and problem solving" >> >>Sent: Wednesday, March 03, 2004 11:44 AM >>Subject: Re: [AccessD] Deployment >> >> >> >> >>>William: >>> >>>What's the overhead? How big is the package net of the mdb or mde >>> >>> >itself? > > >>>Did you have to buy a developer's license for AXP? >>> >>>Rocky >>> >>>----- Original Message ----- >>>From: "William Hindman" >>>To: "Access Developers discussion and problem solving" >>> >>>Sent: Wednesday, March 03, 2004 8:16 AM >>>Subject: Re: [AccessD] Deployment >>> >>> >>> >>> >>>>...can't speak to 2000 but the deployment package in AXP was head over >>>> >>>> >>>heels >>> >>> >>>>better than the A97 version ...I've deployed more than a hundred AXP >>>>runtimes with it without a hiccup ...hth :) >>>> >>>>William Hindman "My idea of an agreeable person is a person who agrees >>>> >>>> >>>with >>> >>> >>>>me." Disraeli >>>> >>>>----- Original Message ----- >>>>From: "Rocky Smolin - Beach Access Software" >>>>To: >>>>Sent: Wednesday, March 03, 2004 10:55 AM >>>>Subject: [AccessD] Deployment >>>> >>>> >>>>Dear List: >>>> >>>>I've got an app I'm developing for the consumer market and we're in >>>> >>>> >beta > > >>>>testing now. It's in A2K so all the betas have to have Access. >>>> >>>>Eventually it will have to be packaged as a run-time. But at that >>>> >>>> >point > > >>it >> >> >>>>will be shrink-wrapped. >>>> >>>>In the short term we could expand our beta testing universe with a >>>> >>>> >>>run-time. >>> >>> >>>>So I'm trying to figure out the best way to do this. >>>> >>>>The problem AFAIK with the run-times is their size. Right now we can >>>> >>>> >>>email >>> >>> >>>>the mde to a beta tester and it's about 3-4MB. If I put up a run-time >>>> >>>> >>on >> >> >>>my >>> >>> >>>>web site, beta testers are not likely to know how to do an FTP >>>> >>>> >program. > > >>>>I suppose I could make a password protected folder on my web site, and >>>> >>>> >>get >> >> >>>>my web site developer to make the run-time downloadable or installable >>>> >>>> >>>from >>> >>> >>>>the site. I don't know how to do this. Maybe she does. >>>> >>>>I've got A97 developer's edition, Wise Installer, and the Sagekey >>>> >>>> >script > > >>>for >>> >>> >>>>A97. But I don't think that the app can be converted back to A97. In >>>> >>>> >>any >> >> >>>>event, the total A97/Wise/Sagekey package runs to about 70MB IIRC. >>>> >>>>I could buy A2002 or A2003 if they've got a better deployment >>>> >>>> >capability > > >>>>than they've had in the past. >>>> >>>>What are your recommendations, suggestions, thoughts? >>>> >>>>Thanks in advance, >>>> >>>>Rocky Smolin >>>>Beach Access Software >>>>-- >>>>_______________________________________________ >>>>AccessD mailing list >>>>AccessD at databaseadvisors.com >>>>http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd >>>>Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com >>>> >>>> >>>>-- >>>>_______________________________________________ >>>>AccessD mailing list >>>>AccessD at databaseadvisors.com >>>>http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd >>>>Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>-- >>>_______________________________________________ >>>AccessD mailing list >>>AccessD at databaseadvisors.com >>>http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd >>>Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com >>> >>> >>> >>-- >>_______________________________________________ >>AccessD mailing list >>AccessD at databaseadvisors.com >>http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd >>Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com >> >> >> > > > -- Marty Connelly Victoria, B.C. Canada From dfe at nudgeeinternational.com Wed Mar 3 18:28:53 2004 From: dfe at nudgeeinternational.com (David Fenton) Date: Thu, 4 Mar 2004 10:28:53 +1000 Subject: [AccessD] Filter versus select in ACC2002 Message-ID: Hello all, I am having a speed problem with one of my Access 2002 applications FE/BE (not SQL Server) and I started wondering about whether I was approaching the filtering properly or not, so I seek advice. Users currently use a search screen to find a record. The main form that displays the information has a recordsource that selects all records. The main form is filtered to the record they want based on the results from the search form. I think I am doing it all backwards and should in fact select only the record they have searched for, rather than filtering. There are quite a few subforms on this form under tab controls and a control on one of the subforms loads another form which contains many subforms. The loading of this screen exhibits the same speed problem because again the form's recordsource selects all records and when the user clicks to load it, it filters to the correct record. Am I putting undue strain on the network by having the form select all records then filtering instead of just selecting the record they want? I imagine that the FE form requests the data, which travels across the network and is then filtered, is that correct? If I change the recordsource to select only the record they want, then no filtering needs to take place and I am thinking that the form loading will be faster... Any hints, tips, comments, suggestions?? Cheers David Australia From KIsmert at TexasSystems.com Wed Mar 3 18:45:39 2004 From: KIsmert at TexasSystems.com (Ken Ismert) Date: Wed, 3 Mar 2004 18:45:39 -0600 Subject: [AccessD] Add All to List In-Reply-To: <008301c4016b$dfbcd740$6101a8c0@dejpolsys> Message-ID: <00a601c40182$04aba2f0$2a3ca8c0@TEXASSYSTEMS.COM> Virginia, See the thread 'Filtering a pick list', running concurrently with this one, for a range of solutions to your problem. -Ken -----Original Message----- From: William Hindman [mailto:wdhindman at bellsouth.net] Sent: Wednesday, March 03, 2004 4:07 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Add All to List ...the easiest way is to "if" the combo's after update event :) After Update Event cboCustomer If Me![cboCustomer] = "" Then DoCmd ShowAllRecords Else DoCmd ApplyFilter , "[State] = Forms![cboCustomer]![cboCustomer]" End If William Hindman "My idea of an agreeable person is a person who agrees with me." Disraeli ----- Original Message ----- From: "Hollis,Virginia" To: "'Access Developers discussion and problem solving'" Sent: Wednesday, March 03, 2004 4:29 PM Subject: RE: [AccessD] Add All to List > I don't know what I am doing wrong.... The all shows at the top of the list, > but All the records do not show on the subform. The combobox is still > showing the first record when it opens and the subform is filtered for that > record. > > What makes the All part of "ALL" in the combo box work? > > Virginia > > -----Original Message----- > From: William Hindman [mailto:wdhindman at bellsouth.net] > Sent: Wednesday, March 03, 2004 8:09 AM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: Re: [AccessD] Add All to List > > > Virginia > > ...use a UNION SELECT in the combo record source to add an ALL. > > ...example: > > SELECT DISTINCTROW Customers.Company, Customers.[Customer Number] FROM > Customers UNION SELECT "","" FROM Customers ORDER BY Customers.Company; > > William Hindman "My idea of an agreeable person is a person who agrees with > me." Disraeli > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Hollis,Virginia" > To: > Sent: Wednesday, March 03, 2004 8:45 AM > Subject: [AccessD] Add All to List > > > > How do you add All to List? This form contains 2 combo boxes on a main > form. > > Selecting data shows data on a subform for the related combo box choices. > > > > I need to either have an All in the combo boxes or when the form opens, I > > would like them to be blank. > > > > I tried this code in the On Open of the main form, but it still opens to > > the first record with entries in both combo boxes. > > > > With Me > > .cboNCSANo = "" > > .cboProcedure = "" > > End With > > > > Virginia > > -- > > _______________________________________________ > > AccessD mailing list > > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > From jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com Wed Mar 3 18:53:36 2004 From: jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com (John W. Colby) Date: Wed, 3 Mar 2004 19:53:36 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Add All to List In-Reply-To: <008301c4016b$dfbcd740$6101a8c0@dejpolsys> Message-ID: The easiest way is to union a Select "*", "ALL" John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of William Hindman Sent: Wednesday, March 03, 2004 5:07 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Add All to List ...the easiest way is to "if" the combo's after update event :) After Update Event cboCustomer If Me![cboCustomer] = "" Then DoCmd ShowAllRecords Else DoCmd ApplyFilter , "[State] = Forms![cboCustomer]![cboCustomer]" End If William Hindman "My idea of an agreeable person is a person who agrees with me." Disraeli ----- Original Message ----- From: "Hollis,Virginia" To: "'Access Developers discussion and problem solving'" Sent: Wednesday, March 03, 2004 4:29 PM Subject: RE: [AccessD] Add All to List > I don't know what I am doing wrong.... The all shows at the top of the list, > but All the records do not show on the subform. The combobox is still > showing the first record when it opens and the subform is filtered for that > record. > > What makes the All part of "ALL" in the combo box work? > > Virginia > > -----Original Message----- > From: William Hindman [mailto:wdhindman at bellsouth.net] > Sent: Wednesday, March 03, 2004 8:09 AM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: Re: [AccessD] Add All to List > > > Virginia > > ...use a UNION SELECT in the combo record source to add an ALL. > > ...example: > > SELECT DISTINCTROW Customers.Company, Customers.[Customer Number] FROM > Customers UNION SELECT "","" FROM Customers ORDER BY Customers.Company; > > William Hindman "My idea of an agreeable person is a person who agrees with > me." Disraeli > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Hollis,Virginia" > To: > Sent: Wednesday, March 03, 2004 8:45 AM > Subject: [AccessD] Add All to List > > > > How do you add All to List? This form contains 2 combo boxes on a main > form. > > Selecting data shows data on a subform for the related combo box choices. > > > > I need to either have an All in the combo boxes or when the form opens, I > > would like them to be blank. > > > > I tried this code in the On Open of the main form, but it still opens to > > the first record with entries in both combo boxes. > > > > With Me > > .cboNCSANo = "" > > .cboProcedure = "" > > End With > > > > Virginia > > -- > > _______________________________________________ > > AccessD mailing list > > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From wdhindman at bellsouth.net Wed Mar 3 19:00:52 2004 From: wdhindman at bellsouth.net (William Hindman) Date: Wed, 3 Mar 2004 20:00:52 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] notes on mdb bloat References: Message-ID: <014801c40184$240ab990$6101a8c0@dejpolsys> ...I love to fish ...but when I want to eat I go to people who can catch them :))))) William Hindman "My idea of an agreeable person is a person who agrees with me." Disraeli ----- Original Message ----- From: "J?rgen Welz" To: Sent: Wednesday, March 03, 2004 7:18 PM Subject: Re: [AccessD] notes on mdb bloat > I'd just compare two mdb files with 8 text fields, no indexes, 250 > characters per field plus an autonumber field (unicode compression off) vs > the same data structure but with no data in the text fields. A quick loop > of 100,000 iterations to fill the tables with a constant string of 250 > characters in each field vs just adding empty strings to the test database. > Compact and draw your own conclusions. I would then run a routine to add a > single character to one of the fields in the empty text database to see if > it immediately swells back to the same size as the other database and draw > further conclusions. It would have taken less time to run this test than to > write this email but I believe we should all learn to fish and I saw > William's frown. Most of my stuff is still Access 97 and all my 2000 stuff > has been in limited number of user environments so I haven't worked with > record level locking. I have run my own lock table/field when running > unbound and that may prove to be more efficient from a bloat standpoint. I > may just run this test this weekend but I am so busy right now that I'm > deleting the vast majority of messages from the list right now. > > > > Ciao > J?rgen Welz > Edmonton, Alberta > jwelz at hotmail.com > > > > > > >From: "William Hindman" > > > >...where is Jurgen when we need him? ...this is right up his alley :( > > > >William Hindman "My idea of an agreeable person is a person who agrees with > >me." Disraeli > > > >----- Original Message ----- > >From: "Gustav Brock" > >To: "Access Developers discussion and problem solving" > > > >Sent: Wednesday, March 03, 2004 1:06 PM > >Subject: Re: [AccessD] notes on mdb bloat > > > > > > > Hi Jim > > > > > > > My guess would be no. Note that Garry mentions that it stays > >bloated > > > > until compact. That doesn't make sense. If the record locking > >algorithm > > > > can work after the database is compacted, then why would it have to > >bloat it > > > > in the first place? It just doesn't make sense from that standpoint. > > > > > > It could if you assume that - after compacting, when a record is opened > > > for editing - it will be copied as a new and saved while the old is > > > marked as deleted. But as you say, just guessing. > > > > > > > It does make sense though as to how they could achieve it with > >little > > > > problem, as they are just duplicating a technique that many developers > >used > > > > to get pseudo record level locking. It would be a simple matter to > >change > > > > the add logic to always use an empty page (they in part had already > >done > > > > that for JET 3.5). > > > > > > > So there's another reason why it's probably not that; if it were > >that > > > > simple (one record per page), then why did we need a new version of > >JET? > > > > Seems like something they could have put in A95 or A97 quite easily. > > > > > > Well, the implementation is slightly more complicated than bloating a > > > row to fill a page. If I understand the article(s), the revised Jet > > > engine maintains a flag which is set when any user requests row-level > > > locking which forces subsequent users also to use row-level locking > > > even if their default setting was for page-level locking. > > > > > > > With no docs, it's all guess work though. > > > > > > Yes, true. However, experimenting with this while watching the mdb file > > > with an hex viewer/editor could tell a lot. I have neither the time > > > nor the need for this, though ... > > > > > > /gustav > > > > > > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > > > > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Gustav Brock > > > > Sent: Wednesday, March 03, 2004 12:11 PM > > > > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > > > > Subject: Re: [AccessD] notes on mdb bloat > > > > > > > > > > Hi all > > > > > > > Does this - simplified - boil down to, that all row-level locking does > > > > compared to page-level locking is bloating a row to fill a page? > > > > > > > /gustav > > > > > > > > > >> Hi Seth et all > > > > > > >> In Garry Robinson's newsletter I noted this extremely interesting > >topic: > > > > > > > > > >> SINGLE RECORD LOCKING, BLOAT AND CITRIX BUGS > > > > > > >> Did you know that the record-level locking option (menu > > > >> Tools~Options~Advanced) that is used by Access 2000 onwards has an > > > >> interesting twist. To achieve a single record lock, each record that > > > >> is locked uses up all of an Access page in the mdb file. This page of > > > >> data, most of which will probably be empty for records with only a > >few > > > >> fields, consumes 4000 bytes. This space is later recovered when the > > > >> database is compacted but if you have a database that seems to expand > > > >> fast, this could be your culprit. For more on this database bloat and > > > >> a possible cure for Access corruptions for Citrix head to this page. > > > > > > >> http://ewbi.blogs.com/develops/2004/01/access_corrupti.html > > > > > > >> and an other blog on the same topic > > > >> http://dbforums.com/arch/213/2002/10/551337 > > > > > > >> Gary is here: > > > > > > >> http://www.vb123.com/ > > > > > > >> /gustav > > > > > > > > > >>> I hadn't even thought of that. I tried it just now, and the > >resulting > > > >>> mdb is 1.5MB. Still three times as big as the A97 version, but not > >as > > > >>> big as the base A2K version. > > > > > > >>> The unicode comments make sense, I had forgotten about that, too. > > > > > > >>> Oh well, more interesting info from the developer front... > > > > > > >>> Seth > > > > > > >>> On Wed, 2003-03-12 at 11:45, Gustav Brock wrote: > > > >>>> Hi Seth > > > >>>> > > > >>>> What happens if you "forward port" the A97 version to A2000? > > > >>>> > > > >>>> /gustav > > _________________________________________________________________ > The new MSN 8: advanced junk mail protection and 2 months FREE* > http://join.msn.com/?page=dept/bcomm&pgmarket=en-ca&RU=http%3a%2f%2fjoin.msn.com%2f%3fpage%3dmisc%2fspecialoffers%26pgmarket%3den-ca > > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > From dwaters at usinternet.com Wed Mar 3 19:02:04 2004 From: dwaters at usinternet.com (Dan Waters) Date: Wed, 3 Mar 2004 19:02:04 -0600 Subject: [AccessD] Filter versus select in ACC2002 In-Reply-To: <18010178.1078360481165.JavaMail.root@sniper2.marix.com> Message-ID: <000001c40184$4efc87a0$de1811d8@DanWaters> David, I think you are on the right track. I would suggest setting up a loop to do this 1000 times each of the two different ways. Set a starttime variable at the beginning of the loop and an endtime variable at the end of the loop, then subtract to see if there is a time difference for the two different methods. I did this test once and found out that CurrentDB is 8 X slower than DBEngine(0)(0) for creating recordsets. (But you must use CurrentDB for some situations.) Best of luck! Dan Waters -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of David Fenton Sent: Wednesday, March 03, 2004 6:29 PM To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: [AccessD] Filter versus select in ACC2002 Hello all, I am having a speed problem with one of my Access 2002 applications FE/BE (not SQL Server) and I started wondering about whether I was approaching the filtering properly or not, so I seek advice. Users currently use a search screen to find a record. The main form that displays the information has a recordsource that selects all records. The main form is filtered to the record they want based on the results from the search form. I think I am doing it all backwards and should in fact select only the record they have searched for, rather than filtering. There are quite a few subforms on this form under tab controls and a control on one of the subforms loads another form which contains many subforms. The loading of this screen exhibits the same speed problem because again the form's recordsource selects all records and when the user clicks to load it, it filters to the correct record. Am I putting undue strain on the network by having the form select all records then filtering instead of just selecting the record they want? I imagine that the FE form requests the data, which travels across the network and is then filtered, is that correct? If I change the recordsource to select only the record they want, then no filtering needs to take place and I am thinking that the form loading will be faster... Any hints, tips, comments, suggestions?? Cheers David Australia -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From my.lists at verizon.net Wed Mar 3 19:04:22 2004 From: my.lists at verizon.net (Francisco H Tapia) Date: Wed, 03 Mar 2004 17:04:22 -0800 Subject: [AccessD] A2K: BOUND to be a problem Message-ID: <40468096.7050509@verizon.net> The most basic most elementry type of form in the world, and yet Access likes to give me a little curve ball :) I have a form in datasheet view (yeah the boss likes the excel look), Now the table does not have an autonumber in this field, it's just a basic plain table bound to a form. NO query, no other special needs. when adding text values to a particular field, when he begins coding 3 lines in a row in this sequence 1 (down arrow) 2 (down arrow) the 3rd line automatically populates the field w/ the #3, now if he hits ESC it won't continue until he meets the same criteria as above, however if he continues simply pressing the down arrow the next row field increments by one, so, after 3, 4, 5, 6, 7... and so on.. But it doesn't seem to overwrite the previously populated fields... he has a unique coding structure for this field(column) such as 1, 2, 22, R, etc... there is no combobox because that's the way the boss likes it, but this problem cropped up in Access2000 because previously this was an Access97 form.(It upsized to Access2000.) -- -Francisco From jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com Wed Mar 3 19:43:31 2004 From: jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com (John W. Colby) Date: Wed, 3 Mar 2004 20:43:31 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Frameworks, what are they? Message-ID: Robert, The only example I have of a running framework is my own. Unfortunately it is so complex at this point it would be undecipherable to anyone but me I'm afraid. You have heard me discuss the various functionalities I have placed into my framework. In order to understand my stuff you would have to wade through all that stuff I have mentioned. I am certainly willing to post it somewhere with an application that uses it so that you can see how I do things but I'm truly uncertain whether a discussion could address my framework without getting pretty deep pretty fast. A framework is really nothing more than a skeleton upon which you hang an application. As you need more functionality, if it is generic and useful to the next app you add it to the framework. In this day and age, you really need to be thinking classes however since they allow you to set up containers for related functionality. I am going to cc the list however. We have many developers who have developed their own framework. I have never seen anyone else's so I can't vouch for how complex they are now how conceptually similar to what I do, but if we address the list, perhaps we can get a discussion going on this stuff. John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com -----Original Message----- From: Robert Gracie [mailto:Robert at servicexp.com] Sent: Wednesday, March 03, 2004 8:18 PM To: jcolby at colbyconsulting.com Subject: I have a question John, I have really appreciated the help over the last few months in regards to "DEEP" programming, your examples have been very helpful. I'm intrigued with "framework" idea however I have no idea where to get started. My question is; do you have any examples of a running "framework", or any books that explain how to set this sort of thing up? Thanks Again!! Robert Gracie From Subscriptions at servicexp.com Wed Mar 3 19:51:44 2004 From: Subscriptions at servicexp.com (Robert Gracie) Date: Wed, 3 Mar 2004 20:51:44 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Frameworks, what are they? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: It may at least get me to the "big picture place" to see how it should be done, if only at a basic level. Is your framework documented? Thanks For Your Help!! Robert Gracie -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of John W. Colby Sent: Wednesday, March 03, 2004 8:44 PM To: AccessD Subject: [AccessD] Frameworks, what are they? Robert, The only example I have of a running framework is my own. Unfortunately it is so complex at this point it would be undecipherable to anyone but me I'm afraid. You have heard me discuss the various functionalities I have placed into my framework. In order to understand my stuff you would have to wade through all that stuff I have mentioned. I am certainly willing to post it somewhere with an application that uses it so that you can see how I do things but I'm truly uncertain whether a discussion could address my framework without getting pretty deep pretty fast. A framework is really nothing more than a skeleton upon which you hang an application. As you need more functionality, if it is generic and useful to the next app you add it to the framework. In this day and age, you really need to be thinking classes however since they allow you to set up containers for related functionality. I am going to cc the list however. We have many developers who have developed their own framework. I have never seen anyone else's so I can't vouch for how complex they are now how conceptually similar to what I do, but if we address the list, perhaps we can get a discussion going on this stuff. John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com -----Original Message----- From: Robert Gracie [mailto:Robert at servicexp.com] Sent: Wednesday, March 03, 2004 8:18 PM To: jcolby at colbyconsulting.com Subject: I have a question John, I have really appreciated the help over the last few months in regards to "DEEP" programming, your examples have been very helpful. I'm intrigued with "framework" idea however I have no idea where to get started. My question is; do you have any examples of a running "framework", or any books that explain how to set this sort of thing up? Thanks Again!! Robert Gracie -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From Subscriptions at servicexp.com Wed Mar 3 19:56:14 2004 From: Subscriptions at servicexp.com (Robert Gracie) Date: Wed, 3 Mar 2004 20:56:14 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Frameworks, what are they? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Ok so what are the basic "bones" if you will of a framework? The basic skeleton I guess. Robert Gracie ************************* I am going to cc the list however. We have many developers who have developed their own framework. I have never seen anyone else's so I can't vouch for how complex they are now how conceptually similar to what I do, but if we address the list, perhaps we can get a discussion going on this stuff. John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com -----Original Message----- From: Robert Gracie [mailto:Robert at servicexp.com] Sent: Wednesday, March 03, 2004 8:18 PM To: jcolby at colbyconsulting.com Subject: I have a question John, I have really appreciated the help over the last few months in regards to "DEEP" programming, your examples have been very helpful. I'm intrigued with "framework" idea however I have no idea where to get started. My question is; do you have any examples of a running "framework", or any books that explain how to set this sort of thing up? Thanks Again!! Robert Gracie -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From wdhindman at bellsouth.net Wed Mar 3 20:00:24 2004 From: wdhindman at bellsouth.net (William Hindman) Date: Wed, 3 Mar 2004 21:00:24 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Add All to List References: Message-ID: <000a01c4018c$756a81a0$6101a8c0@dejpolsys> ??? ...allright ...I'll bite ...are you answering her first query or the follow-on? :) William Hindman "My idea of an agreeable person is a person who agrees with me." Disraeli ----- Original Message ----- From: "John W. Colby" To: "Access Developers discussion and problem solving" Sent: Wednesday, March 03, 2004 7:53 PM Subject: RE: [AccessD] Add All to List > The easiest way is to union a Select "*", "ALL" > > John W. Colby > www.ColbyConsulting.com > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of William > Hindman > Sent: Wednesday, March 03, 2004 5:07 PM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: Re: [AccessD] Add All to List > > > ...the easiest way is to "if" the combo's after update event :) > > After Update Event cboCustomer > If Me![cboCustomer] = "" Then > DoCmd ShowAllRecords > Else > DoCmd ApplyFilter , "[State] = Forms![cboCustomer]![cboCustomer]" > End If > > William Hindman "My idea of an agreeable person is a person who agrees with > me." Disraeli > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Hollis,Virginia" > To: "'Access Developers discussion and problem solving'" > > Sent: Wednesday, March 03, 2004 4:29 PM > Subject: RE: [AccessD] Add All to List > > > > I don't know what I am doing wrong.... The all shows at the top of the > list, > > but All the records do not show on the subform. The combobox is still > > showing the first record when it opens and the subform is filtered for > that > > record. > > > > What makes the All part of "ALL" in the combo box work? > > > > Virginia > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: William Hindman [mailto:wdhindman at bellsouth.net] > > Sent: Wednesday, March 03, 2004 8:09 AM > > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > > Subject: Re: [AccessD] Add All to List > > > > > > Virginia > > > > ...use a UNION SELECT in the combo record source to add an ALL. > > > > ...example: > > > > SELECT DISTINCTROW Customers.Company, Customers.[Customer Number] FROM > > Customers UNION SELECT "","" FROM Customers ORDER BY > Customers.Company; > > > > William Hindman "My idea of an agreeable person is a person who agrees > with > > me." Disraeli > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: "Hollis,Virginia" > > To: > > Sent: Wednesday, March 03, 2004 8:45 AM > > Subject: [AccessD] Add All to List > > > > > > > How do you add All to List? This form contains 2 combo boxes on a main > > form. > > > Selecting data shows data on a subform for the related combo box > choices. > > > > > > I need to either have an All in the combo boxes or when the form opens, > I > > > would like them to be blank. > > > > > > I tried this code in the On Open of the main form, but it still opens > to > > > the first record with entries in both combo boxes. > > > > > > With Me > > > .cboNCSANo = "" > > > .cboProcedure = "" > > > End With > > > > > > Virginia > > > -- > > > _______________________________________________ > > > AccessD mailing list > > > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > > > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > > > > > > -- > > _______________________________________________ > > AccessD mailing list > > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > -- > > _______________________________________________ > > AccessD mailing list > > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > From jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com Wed Mar 3 21:04:45 2004 From: jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com (John W. Colby) Date: Wed, 3 Mar 2004 22:04:45 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Framework pseudo-definition Message-ID: Folks, I have thrown out suggestions about how I handle things "using my framework". Robert has asked me what a framework is and how to start one. Unfortunately the word Framework is used by different people for different things, so I will state my own definitions with the warning that I have no intention of arguing with anyone who doesn't like my definition. For my purposes, a framework is a skeleton. Look at a skyscraper being built on the horizon. The framework is all that steel, the elevators, the air conditioning, electrical service, water, sewage etc. ALL of that stuff is necessary regardless of whether you intend to rent one thousand square feet or one million. And once all of that stuff is in place, the rest is just sheetrock, aluminum framing, doors and windows. My framework starts with a class named dclsFW, the framework class. It is instantiated ONE time (a single instance), but inside of that class is the foundation of the rest of the system. It has "class global" variables for other "service" classes. By "class global" I mean private to the class (can only be directly manipulated by the class) but global to the class (can be seen from anywhere in THAT class). By Service classes I mean classes such as my SysVars, Zip/unzip, Encrypt/Decrypt and so forth. These are really "standalone classes", they do not require my framework at all in order to function, but by placing then in my framework class I provide them to any other part of my class. dclsFW instantiates all these service classes when dclsFW initializes, and tears them down when dclsFW terminates. dclsFW also provides property gets to allow other code to access these service classes directly. ALL classes, EVERY SINGLE ONE, have a set of common stuff at the top, a handful of private constants and variables, and init/term events. This stuff is SO common that you can literally cut and paste it from a "template class" into a new class and save that and have a new working class. The framework class dclsFW is just the foundation of the framework, it is NOT the skeleton itself. Because Access is so Form-centric I have an entire skeleton for forms and controls. Thus I have a form class named dclsFrm. This class is instantiated by any form that wants to use my framework (90% or more in my databases) in the form's OnOpen. Each form has a "form global" (dimensioned PUBLIC) variable for the dclsFrm, and instantiates it in OnOpen, then calls the init of dclsFrm passing in a pointer to itself. dclsFrm then stores that pointer to the form in a private variable in it's header. dclsFrm is the foundation of the FORM skeleton if you will, but it uses services provided by dclsFW (the framework foundation class). dclsFrm also SINKS EVERY form event. The private form variable in dclsFrm's header is dimensioned WithEvents and I then built event stubs for every single form event. The ONLY one that doesn't actually function is OnOpen and that is because the class is instantiated in the form's built-in class in OnOpen and therefore by the time dclsFrm loads OnOpen has come and gone. One implication of this is that NO FORM is lightweight since it must have its built-in class to store the pointer to my dclsFrm, and of course an OnOpen to set and initialize dclsFrm. Just as we have a class for the form, EVERY data aware control has a class which I name dclsCtlCbo, dclsCtlTxt, dclsCtlGrp etc. mostly so that all of the control classes will group together in the module window, but also because it makes it obvious that these classes are control classes. dclsFrm has a private function called from its Init() which I call FindControls (very descriptive I know). This function iterates the form's Control Collection. Remember that dclsFrm was passed a pointer to the form by the form itself as it initialized dclsFrm. As I iterate the control collection I have a large case statement that basically says: for each ctl in frm.controls select case ctl.ControlType case "textbox" 'instantiate the text box control class case "combo" 'instantiate the combo class etc end select next ctl Thus as each control is examined I discover the type of the control, I load an instance of the class for that type of control and pass in a pointer to the control. I save all of these control classes into a collection. By the time FindControls is finished I have loaded a class instance for EVERY control on the form (more or less), and each of those control class instances has a pointer to it's control. As I do in the form, I dim the control variable in each control class Withevents and build event sinks for the control events. In this case I am a little more lenient and only build event sinks for the events I actually use. I did this partly because I don't use many of the key events and mouse events (in every control) and didn't want the overhead of those event stubs being called all the time. Now this sounds like a LOT of work, and a LOT of overhead. It is a lot of work, but in fact very little overhead. It turns out that classes load the entire class ONE TIME, then only a new header section (global variables) for each additional instance of that class type. Thus if I load 10 combo class instances, only one loads completely, then just the header of the other 9. All of the code is shared... unless there are static variables in the functions which is handled appropriately such that each class instance has it's own static variables. I ran some timing awhile back on a VERY complex form with dozens of controls. What I discovered is that on an old 100 mhz Pentium of the day, the overhead was one half of one millisecond per class instance, to load each instance. Folks, that is NOTHING compared to the time to load the data for example. And of course that was a sloooooowwwwww computer compared to what we have now. So there you have it. By the time dclsFrm loads, it also loads a class for each data aware class on the form. The form's skeleton is built and loaded. Now that I have classes for each control and the form, and these classes sinking all the necessary events, I can add functionality to each class as desired. All of the various things you have heard me discuss in the "in my framework I do..." emails are nothing more than discovering the code required to do this stuff, then putting it out in the classes in the framework. Let's take a working example. Every data aware control may be referenced by a combo, list or subform in the SQL statement or query that loads the data into these objects. Thus a combo can be "filtered" by another combo, or by a check box, or by a text box etc. I call the object being filtered a "dependent object" because its dataset depends on some other control (or controls). In ALL of my classes for data aware controls I have a collection which I call colDepObjs. So every combo, list, textbox, checkbox etc. class has this collection. It also has a function which allows me to pass in to the class a list of controls that are dependent on that control, i.e. whose data is filtered by that control. A pointer to these controls (or their class actually) are stored in colDepObjs. Each class also has a public RequeryDepObjs method which can be called. This method... you guessed it... iterates the dependent object collection and calls the requery method of every class in the collection. Thus is 3 combos are dependent on ComboA, calling ComboA.RequeryDependentObjects causes requery ,method of the class for comboB, ComboC, and ComboD. The requery method requeries the actual control (combo or list etc) but also calls its own RequeryDependentObjects method which ... calls the Requery method of any classes in its colDepObj. In order to use this functionality, all I have to do is call a function of a class passing in pointers to the controls that are dependent on this control. Now, when ComboA AfterUpdate fires (remember I sink the events in the control classes) the AfterUpdate calls it's RequeryDependentObjects which starts the ball rolling requerying all dependent objects down the chain. One of the things that has been critical to efficiently handling all this stuff is my framework SysVar table. In my SysVar table I can turn on/off functionality for the entire framework (all forms for example) or for a specific service. As an example I have a sysvar that says "turn on the ZIP/Unzip service classes. I leave them turned off under normal circumstances. However if a specific application needs zip/unzip functionality, I can OVERRIDE the Sysvar by reading framework sysvars out of a table in the FE. Thus for that FE I can turn on/off the zip/unzip service classes, and having done so, I can now just call a property of the framework to get the zip class, call a method and zip up a file. Likewise I can turn on / off a form behavior for a specific application. I can also override form behaviors on a form by form basis so that one form has the behavior while the next does not. Doing things this way allows me to tailor the framework for a specific application, even down to tailoring it for specific forms. I hope this email has started you thinking about frameworks, how you would use them and what you would do with them. If you ever take the time to build one you will never look back. Frameworks are an awesome tool that takes an already RAD environment (Access) and allows you to plop down a skeleton on which you build your app. Imagine being able to tell the client "I can build your skyscraper in 1/10th the time because I already have the skeleton done". Just add walls and windows and move in next week. (Ok, next month). We all know that the data design is a critical piece which I have not addressed here at all, but once that part is done, building forms should be much more standardized than the way many developers do it. I am going to stop here to allow anyone to ask questions, or other developers who have their own frameworks to pipe in with "this is what I do". John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com From DMcAfee at haascnc.com Wed Mar 3 21:30:19 2004 From: DMcAfee at haascnc.com (David McAfee) Date: Wed, 3 Mar 2004 19:30:19 -0800 Subject: [AccessD] Add All to List Message-ID: <657FB70438B7D311AF320090279C1801061440EA@EXCHMAIL> Virginia, this kicked my butt when I first started messing with it. The MS samples in Help confused me more :). Picture it this way: You have 2 tables, tblEmployees and tblCalls sample data: tblEmployees: (EmployeeID, EmployeeName) 1 Bob 2 Joe 3 Tim tblCalls: (CallID, CallDate, PhoneTechID, Notes) (I'll eliminate other fields to avoid confusion) 1 2/5/04 3 "test data entered by Tim" 2 2/5/04 2 "test data entered by Joe" 3 2/6/04 3 "test data entered by Tim" 4 2/6/04 1 "test data entered by Bob" 5 2/7/04 2 "test data entered by Joe" You create a form with 3 controls on it: txtStartDate, txtEndDate and cboEmployee The rowsource for the combobox is simply: SELECT tblEmployees.EmployeeID, tblEmployees.EmployeeName FROM tblEmployees; UNION SELECT "*", "All" FROM tblEmployees; Your boss wants a query on weekly calls in February, by employee and an overall list. He says Feb, but will asks for January and March five minutes later, because that's how he is ;) You create the following query: SELECT C.CallID C.CallDate, C.Notes, E.EmployeeName AS PhoneTech FROM tblCalls AS C INNER JOIN tblEmployees AS E ON C.PhoneTechID = tblEmployee.EmployeeID WHERE (C.CallDate >= [Forms]![frmReport]![txtStartDate] And C.CallDate <=[Forms]![frmReport]![txtEndDate]) AND (([Forms]![frmReport]![cboEmployee]="*") Or ([Forms]![frmReport]![cboEmployee]=[EmployeeID]))=True ORDER BY C.CallDate; The ticket here (if you are using the QBE grid), is to create an expression / criteria which is true (see the 2nd line in the WHERE clause). So now you open up your form, enter dates of 2/5/04 and 2/09/04, drop the combobox down and choose Tim. The criteria runs and the column criteria of EmployeeID = True is satisfied, so all of Tim's calls show. Now you select "All", the criteria cboEmployee = "*" is satisfied, so all rows are returned. I hope this helps. David McAfee dmcafee at pacbell.net > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Hollis,Virginia" > To: "'Access Developers discussion and problem solving'" > > Sent: Wednesday, March 03, 2004 4:29 PM > Subject: RE: [AccessD] Add All to List > > > > I don't know what I am doing wrong.... The all shows at the top of the > list, > > but All the records do not show on the subform. The combobox is still > > showing the first record when it opens and the subform is filtered for > that > > record. > > > > What makes the All part of "ALL" in the combo box work? > > > > Virginia > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: William Hindman [mailto:wdhindman at bellsouth.net] > > Sent: Wednesday, March 03, 2004 8:09 AM > > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > > Subject: Re: [AccessD] Add All to List > > > > > > Virginia > > > > ...use a UNION SELECT in the combo record source to add an ALL. > > > > ...example: > > > > SELECT DISTINCTROW Customers.Company, Customers.[Customer Number] FROM > > Customers UNION SELECT "","" FROM Customers ORDER BY > Customers.Company; > > > > William Hindman "My idea of an agreeable person is a person who agrees > with > > me." Disraeli > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: "Hollis,Virginia" > > To: > > Sent: Wednesday, March 03, 2004 8:45 AM > > Subject: [AccessD] Add All to List > > > > > > > How do you add All to List? This form contains 2 combo boxes on a main > > form. > > > Selecting data shows data on a subform for the related combo box > choices. > > > > > > I need to either have an All in the combo boxes or when the form opens, > I > > > would like them to be blank. > > > > > > I tried this code in the On Open of the main form, but it still opens > to > > > the first record with entries in both combo boxes. > > > > > > With Me > > > .cboNCSANo = "" > > > .cboProcedure = "" > > > End With From stuart at pacific.net.hk Wed Mar 3 21:42:52 2004 From: stuart at pacific.net.hk (Stuart Sanders) Date: Thu, 4 Mar 2004 11:42:52 +0800 Subject: [AccessD] Frameworks, what are they? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <001701c4019a$c6518880$3d0d40ca@nbbits01> I started moving to a class based framework in the latter part of last year, and I had briefly at the time talked about it with Robert when we were working on LWS. I haven't worked on it much recently, but basic functionality is added. Personally I think of a framework as a skeleton of what the app needs. Much like a framework for a QA document, or a book. In the book example a framework (or layout) might contain a front cover, forward, contents, and chapters. If you are always doing the same kind of book you might even include all the chapters (eg the Dummies books follow a framework layout). In access (or other dev tool) the framework will mostly likely start with standard forms/queries and tables that are in all apps you deploy - splash, menu, maintenance tools (compact and repair, backup, etc), Sysvars like tables. It will also likely have forms and supporting tables and queries for things that are used often. Perhaps things like registration forms, security, etc. For class driven systems you would then start with basic stuff and build on it. For example to start with you make a form class handle standard events. You do this by calling the class in the form open event, it then fires up and does whatever you have set it up to do. Typically this would include embedding standard form events into the class. It would also be extended to standard form objects (eg if you often use an undo button, save button, etc), and as you extend it you may have the class scan for control types and add standard calls. Generally for events that I embed into the class I also add a call to the local form to a "local" event in case there is any form specific stuff. So the current event calls a function call on the form called "FormLocalOnCurrent" or something like that. At this stage I have two form classes. One for lookup forms and one for standard forms. A lookup form is a simplified data maintenance form for tables that don't have any foreign keys or complex data. Usually just lists, but may have multiple fields. The classes handle all standard buttons, code behind most controls (beforeupdate etc) and some other generic stuff. So if you look at the forms there is a lot less code behind it doing the driving. In some cases just the calls to the class to initialise and terminate. I also have a bunch of other classes that are supportive in nature. For example there are classes for standard control like text boxes, combo boxes, checkboxes etc that the form controls call when initialising the controls collection. There is a class for handling a list of strings for things like form open arguments. (CustomerID=123456;Arg2=???) For controls, I have adopted some naming conventions, so text controls would only get embedded if their name started with txt. A text control with txd is a date field, and has some other additional code for calendaring etc. I've also created formtemplates for building a class driven form. So I copy the template and start dropping in controls. Basica form functionality will be handled without additional work I've also moved over some personal dev tools such as a form maker for building lookup forms. These get removed at deployment time but the forms it creates stay. I will see about putting up a demo at some stage on just the class related stuff I have done so far, as what I have done so far is likely to be a lot simpler than older frameworks. Won't have time until at least next week though. I would also be interested in seeing older frameworks. At this stage mine draws heavily on examples by John from LWS and another developer I work with here occasionally (doesn't inhabit this list and doesn't use access much anymore). Some things John does I have adopted (eg registering classes into a collection - helps with debugging particularly as class debugging can occasionaly get annoying, and sysvars though I have adopted a slightly different approach) Stuart > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of > Robert Gracie > Sent: Thursday, 4 March 2004 9:56 AM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: RE: [AccessD] Frameworks, what are they? > > > Ok so what are the basic "bones" if you will of a framework? The basic > skeleton I guess. > > Robert Gracie > > ************************* > > I am going to cc the list however. We have many developers who have > developed their own framework. I have never seen anyone > else's so I can't > vouch for how complex they are now how conceptually similar > to what I do, > but if we address the list, perhaps we can get a discussion > going on this > stuff. > > John W. Colby > www.ColbyConsulting.com > > -----Original Message----- > From: Robert Gracie [mailto:Robert at servicexp.com] > Sent: Wednesday, March 03, 2004 8:18 PM > To: jcolby at colbyconsulting.com > Subject: I have a question > > > John, > I have really appreciated the help over the last few months > in regards to > "DEEP" programming, your examples have been very helpful. I'm > intrigued with > "framework" idea however I have no idea where to get started. > My question > is; do you have any examples of a running "framework", or any > books that > explain how to set this sort of thing up? > > Thanks Again!! > Robert Gracie > > > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > From jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com Wed Mar 3 22:43:09 2004 From: jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com (John W. Colby) Date: Wed, 3 Mar 2004 23:43:09 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Frameworks, what are they? In-Reply-To: <001701c4019a$c6518880$3d0d40ca@nbbits01> Message-ID: >In access (or other dev tool) the framework will mostly likely start with standard forms/queries and tables that are in all apps you deploy - splash, menu, maintenance tools (compact and repair, backup, etc),Sysvars like tables. It will also likely have forms and supporting tables and queries for things that are used often. Perhaps things like registration forms, security, etc. This is a perfect example of a different (from mine) equally valid definition of a Framework. It is really a different level of framework, mine addresses the structure of ANY form along with system services, whereas this definition addresses common tools, or business objects. Both of these concepts are useful, and are in no way exclusive of using the other. John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Stuart Sanders Sent: Wednesday, March 03, 2004 10:43 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: [AccessD] Frameworks, what are they? I started moving to a class based framework in the latter part of last year, and I had briefly at the time talked about it with Robert when we were working on LWS. I haven't worked on it much recently, but basic functionality is added. Personally I think of a framework as a skeleton of what the app needs. Much like a framework for a QA document, or a book. In the book example a framework (or layout) might contain a front cover, forward, contents, and chapters. If you are always doing the same kind of book you might even include all the chapters (eg the Dummies books follow a framework layout). In access (or other dev tool) the framework will mostly likely start with standard forms/queries and tables that are in all apps you deploy - splash, menu, maintenance tools (compact and repair, backup, etc), Sysvars like tables. It will also likely have forms and supporting tables and queries for things that are used often. Perhaps things like registration forms, security, etc. For class driven systems you would then start with basic stuff and build on it. For example to start with you make a form class handle standard events. You do this by calling the class in the form open event, it then fires up and does whatever you have set it up to do. Typically this would include embedding standard form events into the class. It would also be extended to standard form objects (eg if you often use an undo button, save button, etc), and as you extend it you may have the class scan for control types and add standard calls. Generally for events that I embed into the class I also add a call to the local form to a "local" event in case there is any form specific stuff. So the current event calls a function call on the form called "FormLocalOnCurrent" or something like that. At this stage I have two form classes. One for lookup forms and one for standard forms. A lookup form is a simplified data maintenance form for tables that don't have any foreign keys or complex data. Usually just lists, but may have multiple fields. The classes handle all standard buttons, code behind most controls (beforeupdate etc) and some other generic stuff. So if you look at the forms there is a lot less code behind it doing the driving. In some cases just the calls to the class to initialise and terminate. I also have a bunch of other classes that are supportive in nature. For example there are classes for standard control like text boxes, combo boxes, checkboxes etc that the form controls call when initialising the controls collection. There is a class for handling a list of strings for things like form open arguments. (CustomerID=123456;Arg2=???) For controls, I have adopted some naming conventions, so text controls would only get embedded if their name started with txt. A text control with txd is a date field, and has some other additional code for calendaring etc. I've also created formtemplates for building a class driven form. So I copy the template and start dropping in controls. Basica form functionality will be handled without additional work I've also moved over some personal dev tools such as a form maker for building lookup forms. These get removed at deployment time but the forms it creates stay. I will see about putting up a demo at some stage on just the class related stuff I have done so far, as what I have done so far is likely to be a lot simpler than older frameworks. Won't have time until at least next week though. I would also be interested in seeing older frameworks. At this stage mine draws heavily on examples by John from LWS and another developer I work with here occasionally (doesn't inhabit this list and doesn't use access much anymore). Some things John does I have adopted (eg registering classes into a collection - helps with debugging particularly as class debugging can occasionaly get annoying, and sysvars though I have adopted a slightly different approach) Stuart > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of > Robert Gracie > Sent: Thursday, 4 March 2004 9:56 AM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: RE: [AccessD] Frameworks, what are they? > > > Ok so what are the basic "bones" if you will of a framework? The basic > skeleton I guess. > > Robert Gracie > > ************************* > > I am going to cc the list however. We have many developers who have > developed their own framework. I have never seen anyone > else's so I can't > vouch for how complex they are now how conceptually similar > to what I do, > but if we address the list, perhaps we can get a discussion > going on this > stuff. > > John W. Colby > www.ColbyConsulting.com > > -----Original Message----- > From: Robert Gracie [mailto:Robert at servicexp.com] > Sent: Wednesday, March 03, 2004 8:18 PM > To: jcolby at colbyconsulting.com > Subject: I have a question > > > John, > I have really appreciated the help over the last few months > in regards to > "DEEP" programming, your examples have been very helpful. I'm > intrigued with > "framework" idea however I have no idea where to get started. > My question > is; do you have any examples of a running "framework", or any > books that > explain how to set this sort of thing up? > > Thanks Again!! > Robert Gracie > > > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com Wed Mar 3 22:53:23 2004 From: jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com (John W. Colby) Date: Wed, 3 Mar 2004 23:53:23 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Frameworks, what are they? In-Reply-To: <001701c4019a$c6518880$3d0d40ca@nbbits01> Message-ID: >Generally for events that I embed into the class I also add a call to the local form to a "local" event in case there is any form specific stuff. So the current event calls a function call on the form called "FormLocalOnCurrent" or something like that. In my case I dimension my dclsFrm (my forms class) Withevents in the form. dclsFrmRAISES events in every event it sinks, which I call AfterXXX where XXX is the event name. AfterOnOpen for example. Any parameters passed in by the event sink from the form I pass right on out to the AfterXXX event I raise. Thus the form can sink my AfterAfterUpdate and perform any processing it needs to do after my form class has done its processing. The thing to understand here is that if an event stub for an event exists in the form's built-in class, control is transferred there FIRST, then to the event stub in my class, and then (because I raise an event in my event stubs) to the AfterXXX event in the form (if any). Having a form call an event in a form is "ass backwards" so to speak. We sink events from objects such as controls or forms. Those objects never call MY functions! My classes raise events as well and if any other control needs to sink those events then they do. By dimming my dclsFrm Withevents, the form can sink the events generated by my class if it needs to do so. John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Stuart Sanders Sent: Wednesday, March 03, 2004 10:43 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: [AccessD] Frameworks, what are they? I started moving to a class based framework in the latter part of last year, and I had briefly at the time talked about it with Robert when we were working on LWS. I haven't worked on it much recently, but basic functionality is added. Personally I think of a framework as a skeleton of what the app needs. Much like a framework for a QA document, or a book. In the book example a framework (or layout) might contain a front cover, forward, contents, and chapters. If you are always doing the same kind of book you might even include all the chapters (eg the Dummies books follow a framework layout). In access (or other dev tool) the framework will mostly likely start with standard forms/queries and tables that are in all apps you deploy - splash, menu, maintenance tools (compact and repair, backup, etc), Sysvars like tables. It will also likely have forms and supporting tables and queries for things that are used often. Perhaps things like registration forms, security, etc. For class driven systems you would then start with basic stuff and build on it. For example to start with you make a form class handle standard events. You do this by calling the class in the form open event, it then fires up and does whatever you have set it up to do. Typically this would include embedding standard form events into the class. It would also be extended to standard form objects (eg if you often use an undo button, save button, etc), and as you extend it you may have the class scan for control types and add standard calls. Generally for events that I embed into the class I also add a call to the local form to a "local" event in case there is any form specific stuff. So the current event calls a function call on the form called "FormLocalOnCurrent" or something like that. At this stage I have two form classes. One for lookup forms and one for standard forms. A lookup form is a simplified data maintenance form for tables that don't have any foreign keys or complex data. Usually just lists, but may have multiple fields. The classes handle all standard buttons, code behind most controls (beforeupdate etc) and some other generic stuff. So if you look at the forms there is a lot less code behind it doing the driving. In some cases just the calls to the class to initialise and terminate. I also have a bunch of other classes that are supportive in nature. For example there are classes for standard control like text boxes, combo boxes, checkboxes etc that the form controls call when initialising the controls collection. There is a class for handling a list of strings for things like form open arguments. (CustomerID=123456;Arg2=???) For controls, I have adopted some naming conventions, so text controls would only get embedded if their name started with txt. A text control with txd is a date field, and has some other additional code for calendaring etc. I've also created formtemplates for building a class driven form. So I copy the template and start dropping in controls. Basica form functionality will be handled without additional work I've also moved over some personal dev tools such as a form maker for building lookup forms. These get removed at deployment time but the forms it creates stay. I will see about putting up a demo at some stage on just the class related stuff I have done so far, as what I have done so far is likely to be a lot simpler than older frameworks. Won't have time until at least next week though. I would also be interested in seeing older frameworks. At this stage mine draws heavily on examples by John from LWS and another developer I work with here occasionally (doesn't inhabit this list and doesn't use access much anymore). Some things John does I have adopted (eg registering classes into a collection - helps with debugging particularly as class debugging can occasionaly get annoying, and sysvars though I have adopted a slightly different approach) Stuart > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of > Robert Gracie > Sent: Thursday, 4 March 2004 9:56 AM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: RE: [AccessD] Frameworks, what are they? > > > Ok so what are the basic "bones" if you will of a framework? The basic > skeleton I guess. > > Robert Gracie > > ************************* > > I am going to cc the list however. We have many developers who have > developed their own framework. I have never seen anyone > else's so I can't > vouch for how complex they are now how conceptually similar > to what I do, > but if we address the list, perhaps we can get a discussion > going on this > stuff. > > John W. Colby > www.ColbyConsulting.com > > -----Original Message----- > From: Robert Gracie [mailto:Robert at servicexp.com] > Sent: Wednesday, March 03, 2004 8:18 PM > To: jcolby at colbyconsulting.com > Subject: I have a question > > > John, > I have really appreciated the help over the last few months > in regards to > "DEEP" programming, your examples have been very helpful. I'm > intrigued with > "framework" idea however I have no idea where to get started. > My question > is; do you have any examples of a running "framework", or any > books that > explain how to set this sort of thing up? > > Thanks Again!! > Robert Gracie > > > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From stuart at pacific.net.hk Wed Mar 3 22:52:06 2004 From: stuart at pacific.net.hk (Stuart Sanders) Date: Thu, 4 Mar 2004 12:52:06 +0800 Subject: [AccessD] Frameworks, what are they? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <002101c401a4$71686d70$3d0d40ca@nbbits01> > -----Original Message----- > This is a perfect example of a different (from mine) equally valid > definition of a Framework. It is really a different level of > framework, > mine addresses the structure of ANY form along with system services, > whereas this definition addresses common tools, or business objects. Mine is intended to also address the structure of any form (at least it will), but I consider other parts of the skeleton (such as common tools) as part of "my" framework and what drives my apps. The common tools and application objects will hook into and use the class driven aspect of the framework. Stuart From ayishakca at yahoo.ca Wed Mar 3 23:03:47 2004 From: ayishakca at yahoo.ca (Ayisha) Date: Thu, 4 Mar 2004 08:03:47 +0300 Subject: [AccessD] Form In Background References: <618EB4D6DDCDD3119B0A00508B6FD37A0CB0D226@cntexchange.pgdp.usec.com> Message-ID: <002d01c401a7$45398420$02d15dd4@ali> Is there any way that i can hide a linked form in background???? Ayisha From stuart at pacific.net.hk Wed Mar 3 23:42:46 2004 From: stuart at pacific.net.hk (Stuart Sanders) Date: Thu, 4 Mar 2004 13:42:46 +0800 Subject: [AccessD] Frameworks, what are they? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <000001c401ab$85bfa020$2a00a8c0@nbbits01> Hehe Like I said I started moving it to a class driven system, and its far from finished, though I have it workable so to speak. Maybe I need to revisit your dclsFrm. When I started this it was a job just to get my head around some of the things that were going on. I do raise events in the class for the built in events.... Perhaps my terminology isn't up to scratch. Essentially what I do is the following. Form_OnOpen: calls class initialisation Class: -sets reference to self -registers with class collection -some other checks and settings -sets reference to parent -sinks form events -sinks standard buttons -scans form and sinks control classes -gets open args and puts in collection -checks if audit fields are present -other stuff Passes control to mtdLocalFormOpen on the form which: -sets form specific stuff like attached table, primary key, etc -handles form specific open args So what I meant was now the events are embedded into the class (sunk if you prefer). If a form current event occurs, then the class handles Form_Current first. Does its stuff and then passes control to the form if a custom form specific function for current event exists. Form_Current doesn't exist on the form. Sounds pretty much like what you do. As I said above, it is probably time to revisit dclsform. Stuart > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of > John W. Colby > Sent: Thursday, 4 March 2004 12:53 PM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: RE: [AccessD] Frameworks, what are they? > > > >Generally for events that I embed into the class I also add > a call to the > local form to a "local" event in case there is any form > specific stuff. So > the current event calls a function call on the form called > "FormLocalOnCurrent" or something like that. > > In my case I dimension my dclsFrm (my forms class) Withevents > in the form. > dclsFrmRAISES events in every event it sinks, which I call > AfterXXX where > XXX is the event name. AfterOnOpen for example. Any > parameters passed in > by the event sink from the form I pass right on out to the > AfterXXX event I > raise. Thus the form can sink my AfterAfterUpdate and perform any > processing it needs to do after my form class has done its processing. > > The thing to understand here is that if an event stub for an > event exists in > the form's built-in class, control is transferred there > FIRST, then to the > event stub in my class, and then (because I raise an event in my event > stubs) to the AfterXXX event in the form (if any). > > Having a form call an event in a form is "ass backwards" so > to speak. We > sink events from objects such as controls or forms. Those > objects never > call MY functions! My classes raise events as well and if > any other control > needs to sink those events then they do. By dimming my > dclsFrm Withevents, > the form can sink the events generated by my class if it > needs to do so. > > > John W. Colby > www.ColbyConsulting.com > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of > Stuart Sanders > Sent: Wednesday, March 03, 2004 10:43 PM > To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' > Subject: RE: [AccessD] Frameworks, what are they? > > > I started moving to a class based framework in the latter part of last > year, and I had briefly at the time talked about it with > Robert when we > were working on LWS. I haven't worked on it much recently, but basic > functionality is added. > > Personally I think of a framework as a skeleton of what the app needs. > Much like a framework for a QA document, or a book. In the > book example > a framework (or layout) might contain a front cover, forward, > contents, > and chapters. If you are always doing the same kind of book you might > even include all the chapters (eg the Dummies books follow a framework > layout). > > In access (or other dev tool) the framework will mostly likely start > with standard forms/queries and tables that are in all apps > you deploy - > splash, menu, maintenance tools (compact and repair, backup, etc), > Sysvars like tables. > > It will also likely have forms and supporting tables and queries for > things that are used often. Perhaps things like registration forms, > security, etc. > > For class driven systems you would then start with basic > stuff and build > on it. For example to start with you make a form class > handle standard > events. You do this by calling the class in the form open event, it > then fires up and does whatever you have set it up to do. Typically > this would include embedding standard form events into the class. It > would also be extended to standard form objects (eg if you > often use an > undo button, save button, etc), and as you extend it you may have the > class scan for control types and add standard calls. > > Generally for events that I embed into the class I also add a call to > the local form to a "local" event in case there is any form specific > stuff. So the current event calls a function call on the form called > "FormLocalOnCurrent" or something like that. > > At this stage I have two form classes. One for lookup forms > and one for > standard forms. A lookup form is a simplified data > maintenance form for > tables that don't have any foreign keys or complex data. Usually just > lists, but may have multiple fields. The classes handle all standard > buttons, code behind most controls (beforeupdate etc) and some other > generic stuff. So if you look at the forms there is a lot less code > behind it doing the driving. In some cases just the calls to > the class > to initialise and terminate. > > I also have a bunch of other classes that are supportive in > nature. For > example there are classes for standard control like text boxes, combo > boxes, checkboxes etc that the form controls call when > initialising the > controls collection. There is a class for handling a list of strings > for things like form open arguments. (CustomerID=123456;Arg2=???) > > For controls, I have adopted some naming conventions, so text controls > would only get embedded if their name started with txt. A > text control > with txd is a date field, and has some other additional code for > calendaring etc. > > I've also created formtemplates for building a class driven > form. So I > copy the template and start dropping in controls. Basica form > functionality will be handled without additional work > > I've also moved over some personal dev tools such as a form maker for > building lookup forms. These get removed at deployment time but the > forms it creates stay. > > I will see about putting up a demo at some stage on just the class > related stuff I have done so far, as what I have done so far is likely > to be a lot simpler than older frameworks. Won't have time until at > least next week though. > > I would also be interested in seeing older frameworks. At this stage > mine draws heavily on examples by John from LWS and another > developer I > work with here occasionally (doesn't inhabit this list and doesn't use > access much anymore). Some things John does I have adopted (eg > registering classes into a collection - helps with debugging > particularly as class debugging can occasionaly get annoying, and > sysvars though I have adopted a slightly different approach) > > Stuart > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of > > Robert Gracie > > Sent: Thursday, 4 March 2004 9:56 AM > > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > > Subject: RE: [AccessD] Frameworks, what are they? > > > > > > Ok so what are the basic "bones" if you will of a > framework? The basic > > skeleton I guess. > > > > Robert Gracie > > > > ************************* > > > > I am going to cc the list however. We have many developers who have > > developed their own framework. I have never seen anyone > > else's so I can't > > vouch for how complex they are now how conceptually similar > > to what I do, > > but if we address the list, perhaps we can get a discussion > > going on this > > stuff. > > > > John W. Colby > > www.ColbyConsulting.com > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: Robert Gracie [mailto:Robert at servicexp.com] > > Sent: Wednesday, March 03, 2004 8:18 PM > > To: jcolby at colbyconsulting.com > > Subject: I have a question > > > > > > John, > > I have really appreciated the help over the last few months > > in regards to > > "DEEP" programming, your examples have been very helpful. I'm > > intrigued with > > "framework" idea however I have no idea where to get started. > > My question > > is; do you have any examples of a running "framework", or any > > books that > > explain how to set this sort of thing up? > > > > Thanks Again!! > > Robert Gracie > > > > > > -- > > _______________________________________________ > > AccessD mailing list > > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > > > -- > > _______________________________________________ > > AccessD mailing list > > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > From accessd667 at yahoo.com Thu Mar 4 02:48:28 2004 From: accessd667 at yahoo.com (S D) Date: Thu, 4 Mar 2004 00:48:28 -0800 (PST) Subject: [AccessD] Re: Create scripts: CreateTable? BEU? In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.2.20040303084820.02ac1628@pop3.highstream.net> Message-ID: <20040304084828.5850.qmail@web61108.mail.yahoo.com> First of all thnx for all the replies (as always!) Robert you are CORRECT!! They DO NOT understand Access, I've often got a response like "In Oracle that's no problem...." aahrggg. I've designed a new plan! I'm using functionality in my code to check if certain tables exist in a temp-db. If not I'm going to create them using maketable queries. i'm going to use something similar for this. Question: What is BEU? Never heard of it. Again many thnx. Sander PS: I'll continue on the create-table-thingy if, and when, I finish it I'll post it. "Robert L. Stewart" wrote: >From the sound of the letter, he is dealing with a QA group that will not allow the promotion of the actual MDB with the tables in it to a production environment. They do not understand how Access works. They want a script that will create the tables. He could actually create a Create Data File under Utilities on his menu system that could create the tables, but it is a lot of code to do it. At 08:09 AM 3/3/2004 -0600, you wrote: >Date: Tue, 2 Mar 2004 19:18:25 -0500 >From: "Developer" >Subject: RE: [AccessD] Re: Create scripts: CreateTable? >To: "'Access Developers discussion and problem solving'" > >Message-ID: <001c01c400b5$0e93e2f0$7001a8c0 at COA3> >Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" > >Robert: >I thought that at first, but if that was the case, why not just send the >client the empty .mdb? > >Communication is key ... Lol > >Steve -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com --------------------------------- Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Search - Find what you?re looking for faster. From accessd667 at yahoo.com Thu Mar 4 02:54:15 2004 From: accessd667 at yahoo.com (S D) Date: Thu, 4 Mar 2004 00:54:15 -0800 (PST) Subject: [AccessD] Re: Create scripts: CreateTable? BEU? SOLVED In-Reply-To: <20040304084828.5850.qmail@web61108.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <20040304085415.6766.qmail@web61102.mail.yahoo.com> Sorry group, I missed the mail from Bryan regarding the Back End Upgrader. I'm having a look at it now. Regards, Sander S D wrote: First of all thnx for all the replies (as always!) Robert you are CORRECT!! They DO NOT understand Access, I've often got a response like "In Oracle that's no problem...." aahrggg. I've designed a new plan! I'm using functionality in my code to check if certain tables exist in a temp-db. If not I'm going to create them using maketable queries. i'm going to use something similar for this. Question: What is BEU? Never heard of it. Again many thnx. Sander PS: I'll continue on the create-table-thingy if, and when, I finish it I'll post it. "Robert L. Stewart" wrote: >From the sound of the letter, he is dealing with a QA group that will not allow the promotion of the actual MDB with the tables in it to a production environment. They do not understand how Access works. They want a script that will create the tables. He could actually create a Create Data File under Utilities on his menu system that could create the tables, but it is a lot of code to do it. At 08:09 AM 3/3/2004 -0600, you wrote: >Date: Tue, 2 Mar 2004 19:18:25 -0500 >From: "Developer" >Subject: RE: [AccessD] Re: Create scripts: CreateTable? >To: "'Access Developers discussion and problem solving'" > >Message-ID: <001c01c400b5$0e93e2f0$7001a8c0 at COA3> >Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" > >Robert: >I thought that at first, but if that was the case, why not just send the >client the empty .mdb? > >Communication is key ... Lol > >Steve -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com --------------------------------- Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Search - Find what you?re looking for faster. -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com --------------------------------- Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Search - Find what you?re looking for faster. From accessd667 at yahoo.com Thu Mar 4 03:34:28 2004 From: accessd667 at yahoo.com (S D) Date: Thu, 4 Mar 2004 01:34:28 -0800 (PST) Subject: [AccessD] OT: MZ-Tools, Smart Indenter Message-ID: <20040304093428.91097.qmail@web61105.mail.yahoo.com> Hi group, For those who do not use MZ-Tools and/ or Smart Indenter. Check 'm out! Great free tools that save a lot of time. Sander PS: I didn't build these or anything like it. I only use them :-) --------------------------------- Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Search - Find what you?re looking for faster. From rsmethurst at UK.EY.COM Thu Mar 4 04:41:36 2004 From: rsmethurst at UK.EY.COM (rsmethurst at UK.EY.COM) Date: Thu, 4 Mar 2004 10:41:36 +0000 Subject: [AccessD] Update Problem Message-ID: Hi All, I have a very strange problem with a table that I am updating using an Insert Into statement. Basically, if I set a breakpoint and step through the code, all works fine. If however I do not, and simply let it run, the table is not populated? Has anyone encountered anything like this before? TIA Ryan This e-mail and any attachment are confidential and contain proprietary information, some or all of which may be legally privileged. It is intended solely for the use of the individual or entity to which it is addressed. If you are not the intended recipient, please notify the author immediately by telephone or by replying to this e-mail, and then delete all copies of the e-mail on your system. If you are not the intended recipient, you must not use, disclose, distribute, copy, print or rely on this e-mail. Whilst we have taken reasonable precautions to ensure that this e-mail and any attachment has been checked for viruses, we cannot guarantee that they are virus free and we cannot accept liability for any damage sustained as a result of software viruses. We would advise that you carry out your own virus checks, especially before opening an attachment. The UK firm Ernst & Young LLP is a limited liability partnership registered in England and Wales with registered number OC300001 and is a member practice of Ernst & Young Global. A list of members? names is available for inspection at 1 More London Place, London, SE1 2AF, the firm?s principal place of business and its registered office. From pedro at plex.nl Thu Mar 4 12:33:18 2004 From: pedro at plex.nl (pedro at plex.nl) Date: Thu, 04 Mar 2004 12:33:18 (MET) Subject: [AccessD] MSysTables permissions Message-ID: <200403041133.i24BXIRM014657@mailhostC.plex.net> Hello Group, on a .mdw secured database, i get an error: Error 3033. You don't have permissions for Object MSysTables. This error occurs when logging in as a user, when trying to use a commandbutton on a form. When logging in as administrator everything works fine. When i look at the system Objects, i can't find MSysTables. Nothing about this at the Knowledge Base. Where can i find this table and how is it possible that permissions need to be adjusted voor System Objects? Pedro Janssen From HollisVJ at pgdp.usec.com Thu Mar 4 07:28:45 2004 From: HollisVJ at pgdp.usec.com (Hollis,Virginia) Date: Thu, 04 Mar 2004 07:28:45 -0600 Subject: [AccessD] Add All to List Message-ID: <618EB4D6DDCDD3119B0A00508B6FD37A0CB0D22C@cntexchange.pgdp.usec.com> Still struggling... On the recordsource for the combo box I put: SELECT tbl_NCSA.NCSAID, tbl_NCSA.NCSANo FROM tbl_NCSA; UNION SELECT "*", "All" FROM tbl_NCSA; This gets me the word ALL in the list. Then on the AfterUpdate of cboNCSANo, I put (this gives me a type mismatch when I select All): If Me![cboNCSANo] = "All" Then DoCmd.ShowAllRecords Else DoCmd.ApplyFilter , "[NCSAID] = " & str(Me![cboNCSANo]) End If Va. -----Original Message----- From: William Hindman [mailto:wdhindman at bellsouth.net] Sent: Wednesday, March 03, 2004 4:07 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Add All to List ...the easiest way is to "if" the combo's after update event :) After Update Event cboCustomer If Me![cboCustomer] = "" Then DoCmd ShowAllRecords Else DoCmd ApplyFilter , "[State] = Forms![cboCustomer]![cboCustomer]" End If William Hindman "My idea of an agreeable person is a person who agrees with me." Disraeli ----- Original Message ----- From: "Hollis,Virginia" To: "'Access Developers discussion and problem solving'" Sent: Wednesday, March 03, 2004 4:29 PM Subject: RE: [AccessD] Add All to List > I don't know what I am doing wrong.... The all shows at the top of the list, > but All the records do not show on the subform. The combobox is still > showing the first record when it opens and the subform is filtered for that > record. > > What makes the All part of "ALL" in the combo box work? > > Virginia > > -----Original Message----- > From: William Hindman [mailto:wdhindman at bellsouth.net] > Sent: Wednesday, March 03, 2004 8:09 AM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: Re: [AccessD] Add All to List > > > Virginia > > ...use a UNION SELECT in the combo record source to add an ALL. > > ...example: > > SELECT DISTINCTROW Customers.Company, Customers.[Customer Number] FROM > Customers UNION SELECT "","" FROM Customers ORDER BY Customers.Company; > > William Hindman "My idea of an agreeable person is a person who agrees with > me." Disraeli > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Hollis,Virginia" > To: > Sent: Wednesday, March 03, 2004 8:45 AM > Subject: [AccessD] Add All to List > > > > How do you add All to List? This form contains 2 combo boxes on a main > form. > > Selecting data shows data on a subform for the related combo box choices. > > > > I need to either have an All in the combo boxes or when the form opens, I > > would like them to be blank. > > > > I tried this code in the On Open of the main form, but it still opens to > > the first record with entries in both combo boxes. > > > > With Me > > .cboNCSANo = "" > > .cboProcedure = "" > > End With > > > > Virginia > > -- > > _______________________________________________ > > AccessD mailing list > > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From Developer at UltraDNT.com Thu Mar 4 08:00:17 2004 From: Developer at UltraDNT.com (Developer) Date: Thu, 4 Mar 2004 09:00:17 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Add All to List In-Reply-To: <618EB4D6DDCDD3119B0A00508B6FD37A0CB0D22C@cntexchange.pgdp.usec.com> Message-ID: <000a01c401f1$0974eb60$7001a8c0@COA3> When you select ALL, your combo is equal to * -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Hollis,Virginia Sent: Thursday, March 04, 2004 8:29 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: [AccessD] Add All to List Still struggling... On the recordsource for the combo box I put: SELECT tbl_NCSA.NCSAID, tbl_NCSA.NCSANo FROM tbl_NCSA; UNION SELECT "*", "All" FROM tbl_NCSA; This gets me the word ALL in the list. Then on the AfterUpdate of cboNCSANo, I put (this gives me a type mismatch when I select All): If Me![cboNCSANo] = "All" Then DoCmd.ShowAllRecords Else DoCmd.ApplyFilter , "[NCSAID] = " & str(Me![cboNCSANo]) End If Va. -----Original Message----- From: William Hindman [mailto:wdhindman at bellsouth.net] Sent: Wednesday, March 03, 2004 4:07 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Add All to List ...the easiest way is to "if" the combo's after update event :) After Update Event cboCustomer If Me![cboCustomer] = "" Then DoCmd ShowAllRecords Else DoCmd ApplyFilter , "[State] = Forms![cboCustomer]![cboCustomer]" End If William Hindman "My idea of an agreeable person is a person who agrees with me." Disraeli ----- Original Message ----- From: "Hollis,Virginia" To: "'Access Developers discussion and problem solving'" Sent: Wednesday, March 03, 2004 4:29 PM Subject: RE: [AccessD] Add All to List > I don't know what I am doing wrong.... The all shows at the top of the list, > but All the records do not show on the subform. The combobox is still > showing the first record when it opens and the subform is filtered for that > record. > > What makes the All part of "ALL" in the combo box work? > > Virginia > > -----Original Message----- > From: William Hindman [mailto:wdhindman at bellsouth.net] > Sent: Wednesday, March 03, 2004 8:09 AM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: Re: [AccessD] Add All to List > > > Virginia > > ...use a UNION SELECT in the combo record source to add an ALL. > > ...example: > > SELECT DISTINCTROW Customers.Company, Customers.[Customer Number] FROM > Customers UNION SELECT "","" FROM Customers ORDER BY Customers.Company; > > William Hindman "My idea of an agreeable person is a person who agrees with > me." Disraeli > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Hollis,Virginia" > To: > Sent: Wednesday, March 03, 2004 8:45 AM > Subject: [AccessD] Add All to List > > > > How do you add All to List? This form contains 2 combo boxes on a > > main > form. > > Selecting data shows data on a subform for the related combo box choices. > > > > I need to either have an All in the combo boxes or when the form > > opens, I > > would like them to be blank. > > > > I tried this code in the On Open of the main form, but it still > > opens to > > the first record with entries in both combo boxes. > > > > With Me > > .cboNCSANo = "" > > .cboProcedure = "" > > End With > > > > Virginia > > -- > > _______________________________________________ > > AccessD mailing list > > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com Thu Mar 4 08:04:00 2004 From: jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com (John W. Colby) Date: Thu, 4 Mar 2004 09:04:00 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Add All to List In-Reply-To: <618EB4D6DDCDD3119B0A00508B6FD37A0CB0D22C@cntexchange.pgdp.usec.com> Message-ID: Is this combo bound to a nontext field? If so then the first column (column(0) must be a numeric value. Furthermore the syntax Me![cboNCSANo] MAY be correct but I don't think so. It should be me!cboNCNSANo The [] generally denotes a field and usually tells the compiler to try and interpret whatever is between the [] as a field name. In any event, whether or not the [] is legal, me!CtlName is definitely valid. Further if I'm not mistaken (assuming that column(0) of the combo is not bound to a numeric field which by itself would be causing your problems) The default property of a combo is column(0) which would contain the value "*" so the case should be if me!CboNCSANo = "*" then else endif You can make it unambiguous in any case by specifying the column you intend to evaluate if me!CboNCSANo.column(0) = "*" then else endif or if me!CboNCSANo.column(1) = "All" then else endif FURTHER... the SQL statement has to use a LIKE instead of an = DoCmd.ApplyFilter , "[NCSAID] LIKE " & str(Me![cboNCSANo]) The reason is that LIKE evaluates an * as a wildcard whereas = evaluates the * literally, i.e. it would match any records with an asterisk in the field. I don't think any of this has anything to do with your type mismatch though John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Hollis,Virginia Sent: Thursday, March 04, 2004 8:29 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: [AccessD] Add All to List Still struggling... On the recordsource for the combo box I put: SELECT tbl_NCSA.NCSAID, tbl_NCSA.NCSANo FROM tbl_NCSA; UNION SELECT "*", "All" FROM tbl_NCSA; This gets me the word ALL in the list. Then on the AfterUpdate of cboNCSANo, I put (this gives me a type mismatch when I select All): If Me![cboNCSANo] = "All" Then DoCmd.ShowAllRecords Else DoCmd.ApplyFilter , "[NCSAID] = " & str(Me![cboNCSANo]) End If Va. -----Original Message----- From: William Hindman [mailto:wdhindman at bellsouth.net] Sent: Wednesday, March 03, 2004 4:07 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Add All to List ...the easiest way is to "if" the combo's after update event :) After Update Event cboCustomer If Me![cboCustomer] = "" Then DoCmd ShowAllRecords Else DoCmd ApplyFilter , "[State] = Forms![cboCustomer]![cboCustomer]" End If William Hindman "My idea of an agreeable person is a person who agrees with me." Disraeli ----- Original Message ----- From: "Hollis,Virginia" To: "'Access Developers discussion and problem solving'" Sent: Wednesday, March 03, 2004 4:29 PM Subject: RE: [AccessD] Add All to List > I don't know what I am doing wrong.... The all shows at the top of the list, > but All the records do not show on the subform. The combobox is still > showing the first record when it opens and the subform is filtered for that > record. > > What makes the All part of "ALL" in the combo box work? > > Virginia > > -----Original Message----- > From: William Hindman [mailto:wdhindman at bellsouth.net] > Sent: Wednesday, March 03, 2004 8:09 AM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: Re: [AccessD] Add All to List > > > Virginia > > ...use a UNION SELECT in the combo record source to add an ALL. > > ...example: > > SELECT DISTINCTROW Customers.Company, Customers.[Customer Number] FROM > Customers UNION SELECT "","" FROM Customers ORDER BY Customers.Company; > > William Hindman "My idea of an agreeable person is a person who agrees with > me." Disraeli > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Hollis,Virginia" > To: > Sent: Wednesday, March 03, 2004 8:45 AM > Subject: [AccessD] Add All to List > > > > How do you add All to List? This form contains 2 combo boxes on a main > form. > > Selecting data shows data on a subform for the related combo box choices. > > > > I need to either have an All in the combo boxes or when the form opens, I > > would like them to be blank. > > > > I tried this code in the On Open of the main form, but it still opens to > > the first record with entries in both combo boxes. > > > > With Me > > .cboNCSANo = "" > > .cboProcedure = "" > > End With > > > > Virginia > > -- > > _______________________________________________ > > AccessD mailing list > > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From wdhindman at bellsouth.net Thu Mar 4 08:04:39 2004 From: wdhindman at bellsouth.net (William Hindman) Date: Thu, 4 Mar 2004 09:04:39 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Add All to List References: <618EB4D6DDCDD3119B0A00508B6FD37A0CB0D22C@cntexchange.pgdp.usec.com> Message-ID: <001001c401f1$a240d340$6101a8c0@dejpolsys> ...if the combo contents are a numeric then a text "ALL" would explain a type mismatch ...haven't seen that myself but you might consider using a variant data type or selecting on a different combo field. William Hindman "My idea of an agreeable person is a person who agrees with me." Disraeli ----- Original Message ----- From: "Hollis,Virginia" To: "'Access Developers discussion and problem solving'" Sent: Thursday, March 04, 2004 8:28 AM Subject: RE: [AccessD] Add All to List > Still struggling... > > On the recordsource for the combo box I put: > SELECT tbl_NCSA.NCSAID, tbl_NCSA.NCSANo FROM tbl_NCSA; UNION SELECT "*", > "All" FROM tbl_NCSA; > This gets me the word ALL in the list. > > Then on the AfterUpdate of cboNCSANo, I put (this gives me a type mismatch > when I select All): > If Me![cboNCSANo] = "All" Then > DoCmd.ShowAllRecords > Else > DoCmd.ApplyFilter , "[NCSAID] = " & str(Me![cboNCSANo]) > End If > > Va. > > -----Original Message----- > From: William Hindman [mailto:wdhindman at bellsouth.net] > Sent: Wednesday, March 03, 2004 4:07 PM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: Re: [AccessD] Add All to List > > > ...the easiest way is to "if" the combo's after update event :) > > After Update Event cboCustomer > If Me![cboCustomer] = "" Then > DoCmd ShowAllRecords > Else > DoCmd ApplyFilter , "[State] = Forms![cboCustomer]![cboCustomer]" > End If > > William Hindman "My idea of an agreeable person is a person who agrees with > me." Disraeli > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Hollis,Virginia" > To: "'Access Developers discussion and problem solving'" > > Sent: Wednesday, March 03, 2004 4:29 PM > Subject: RE: [AccessD] Add All to List > > > > I don't know what I am doing wrong.... The all shows at the top of the > list, > > but All the records do not show on the subform. The combobox is still > > showing the first record when it opens and the subform is filtered for > that > > record. > > > > What makes the All part of "ALL" in the combo box work? > > > > Virginia > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: William Hindman [mailto:wdhindman at bellsouth.net] > > Sent: Wednesday, March 03, 2004 8:09 AM > > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > > Subject: Re: [AccessD] Add All to List > > > > > > Virginia > > > > ...use a UNION SELECT in the combo record source to add an ALL. > > > > ...example: > > > > SELECT DISTINCTROW Customers.Company, Customers.[Customer Number] FROM > > Customers UNION SELECT "","" FROM Customers ORDER BY > Customers.Company; > > > > William Hindman "My idea of an agreeable person is a person who agrees > with > > me." Disraeli > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: "Hollis,Virginia" > > To: > > Sent: Wednesday, March 03, 2004 8:45 AM > > Subject: [AccessD] Add All to List > > > > > > > How do you add All to List? This form contains 2 combo boxes on a main > > form. > > > Selecting data shows data on a subform for the related combo box > choices. > > > > > > I need to either have an All in the combo boxes or when the form opens, > I > > > would like them to be blank. > > > > > > I tried this code in the On Open of the main form, but it still opens > to > > > the first record with entries in both combo boxes. > > > > > > With Me > > > .cboNCSANo = "" > > > .cboProcedure = "" > > > End With > > > > > > Virginia > > > -- > > > _______________________________________________ > > > AccessD mailing list > > > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > > > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > > > > > > -- > > _______________________________________________ > > AccessD mailing list > > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > -- > > _______________________________________________ > > AccessD mailing list > > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com Thu Mar 4 08:07:40 2004 From: jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com (John W. Colby) Date: Thu, 4 Mar 2004 09:07:40 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Susan Harkins and Arthur Fuller Message-ID: Please email me off-line. Thanks, John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com From BBarabash at TappeConstruction.com Thu Mar 4 08:16:08 2004 From: BBarabash at TappeConstruction.com (Brett Barabash) Date: Thu, 4 Mar 2004 08:16:08 -0600 Subject: [AccessD] Form In Background Message-ID: <426071E0B0A6D311B3C0006008B0AB23AFE3D0@TAPPEEXCH01> What's a linked form? -----Original Message----- From: Ayisha [mailto:ayishakca at yahoo.ca] Sent: Wednesday, March 03, 2004 11:04 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: [AccessD] Form In Background Is there any way that i can hide a linked form in background???? Ayisha -- -------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- This email and any files transmitted with it are confidential and intended solely for the use of the individual or entity to whom they are addressed. If you have received this email in error please notify the originator of the message. This footer also confirms that this email message has been scanned for the presence of computer viruses. Any views expressed in this message are those of the individual sender, except where the sender specifies and with authority, states them to be the views of Tappe Construction Co. Scanning of this message and addition of this footer is performed by SurfControl E-mail Filter software in conjunction with virus detection software. From roz.clarke at donnslaw.co.uk Thu Mar 4 08:24:04 2004 From: roz.clarke at donnslaw.co.uk (Roz Clarke) Date: Thu, 4 Mar 2004 14:24:04 -0000 Subject: [AccessD] Update Problem Message-ID: <61F915314798D311A2F800A0C9C83188047C6B91@dibble.observatory.donnslaw.co.uk> Hi I haven't, but the only thing I can think of is that you have something happening that needs more time, and stepping through the code is allowing each step to complete before the next one starts and causes any conflict. Could there be anything like that happening? If so, DoEvents might help you. Roz -----Original Message----- From: rsmethurst at UK.EY.COM [mailto:rsmethurst at UK.EY.COM] Sent: 04 March 2004 10:42 To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: [AccessD] Update Problem Hi All, I have a very strange problem with a table that I am updating using an Insert Into statement. Basically, if I set a breakpoint and step through the code, all works fine. If however I do not, and simply let it run, the table is not populated? Has anyone encountered anything like this before? TIA Ryan This e-mail and any attachment are confidential and contain proprietary information, some or all of which may be legally privileged. It is intended solely for the use of the individual or entity to which it is addressed. If you are not the intended recipient, please notify the author immediately by telephone or by replying to this e-mail, and then delete all copies of the e-mail on your system. If you are not the intended recipient, you must not use, disclose, distribute, copy, print or rely on this e-mail. Whilst we have taken reasonable precautions to ensure that this e-mail and any attachment has been checked for viruses, we cannot guarantee that they are virus free and we cannot accept liability for any damage sustained as a result of software viruses. We would advise that you carry out your own virus checks, especially before opening an attachment. The UK firm Ernst & Young LLP is a limited liability partnership registered in England and Wales with registered number OC300001 and is a member practice of Ernst & Young Global. A list of members? names is available for inspection at 1 More London Place, London, SE1 2AF, the firm?s principal place of business and its registered office. -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From rsmethurst at UK.EY.COM Thu Mar 4 08:30:03 2004 From: rsmethurst at UK.EY.COM (rsmethurst at UK.EY.COM) Date: Thu, 4 Mar 2004 14:30:03 +0000 Subject: [AccessD] Update Problem Message-ID: Thanks Roz, Managed to get it to work in the end...very strange problem though. I think it was because a certain step was being tested using a different connection and for some reason there wasn't enough time for the step to complete before the other connection tried to read the data. Ryan This e-mail and any attachment are confidential and contain proprietary information, some or all of which may be legally privileged. It is intended solely for the use of the individual or entity to which it is addressed. If you are not the intended recipient, please notify the author immediately by telephone or by replying to this e-mail, and then delete all copies of the e-mail on your system. If you are not the intended recipient, you must not use, disclose, distribute, copy, print or rely on this e-mail. Whilst we have taken reasonable precautions to ensure that this e-mail and any attachment has been checked for viruses, we cannot guarantee that they are virus free and we cannot accept liability for any damage sustained as a result of software viruses. We would advise that you carry out your own virus checks, especially before opening an attachment. The UK firm Ernst & Young LLP is a limited liability partnership registered in England and Wales with registered number OC300001 and is a member practice of Ernst & Young Global. A list of members? names is available for inspection at 1 More London Place, London, SE1 2AF, the firm?s principal place of business and its registered office. From Bryan_Carbonnell at cbc.ca Thu Mar 4 08:44:02 2004 From: Bryan_Carbonnell at cbc.ca (Bryan Carbonnell) Date: Thu, 04 Mar 2004 09:44:02 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] How to Deal with Time Durations Message-ID: In a new app that I am creating, of which you will probably hear ALL about it over the next few weeks :), I have to keep track of event durations. Right now I have a field for the start time, and one for the duration. Both are Date/Time fields. The durations for the event can last from 1 second all the way up to many hours, and possibly even days. Should I actually be storing the start and end time and calculating the duration? The duration can be entered as either the actual duration or the actual end time. If you have done something like this, how have you handled it? Thanks, Bryan Carbonnell bryan_carbonnell at cbc.ca From jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com Thu Mar 4 08:57:00 2004 From: jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com (John W. Colby) Date: Thu, 4 Mar 2004 09:57:00 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Frameworks, what are they? In-Reply-To: <000001c401ab$85bfa020$2a00a8c0@nbbits01> Message-ID: >Passes control to mtdLocalFormOpen on the form which: -sets form specific stuff like attached table, primary key, etc -handles form specific open args I guess my question is how does this "passes control" happen. If you are doing something like frm.SomeFunction IOW "calling" the function on the form, then you are "doing it questionably". The "right" way is to raise an event in the dclsFrm (whatever you call yours) after you finish processing each event. Then dimension your dclsFrm variable in each form Withevents. Next put event stubs in the form's built-in class which looks something like this: dim withevents fdclsFrm as dclsFrm private sub Open(Cancel as integer) set fdclsFrm = new dclsFrm fdclsFrm.Init Me, other parameters end sub 'THIS IS THE EVENT SINK FOR YOUR FORM CLASS' (RAISED BY YOUR CLASS) private sub fdclsFrm_BeforeUpdate(Cancel as integer) 'do whatever processing needs doing here AFTER your class processing end sub 'THIS IS THE EVENT SINK FOR YOUR FORM CLASS' AFTERUPDATE EVENT (RAISED BY YOUR CLASS) private sub fdclsFrm)AfterUpdate() 'do whatever processing you need to do AFTER your class processing end sub The event stubs for your class can be there if you need them or not if you don't need them. Remember that if you have an event stubs for form events in the FORM'S built in class they get control BEFORE your class, then your class, then your class raises its own event and transfers control back to whatever is listening to those events - typically but not always the form itself. I say not always because it is perfectly possible to listen to one form's events in another form, or even just in a class just sitting there listening. All that is needed is a variable dimensioned Withevents, and set to point to a specific instance of your dclsFrm. Then put event stubs in there for the events your class raises and it will gain control at some point in time. John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Stuart Sanders Sent: Thursday, March 04, 2004 12:43 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: [AccessD] Frameworks, what are they? Hehe Like I said I started moving it to a class driven system, and its far from finished, though I have it workable so to speak. Maybe I need to revisit your dclsFrm. When I started this it was a job just to get my head around some of the things that were going on. I do raise events in the class for the built in events.... Perhaps my terminology isn't up to scratch. Essentially what I do is the following. Form_OnOpen: calls class initialisation Class: -sets reference to self -registers with class collection -some other checks and settings -sets reference to parent -sinks form events -sinks standard buttons -scans form and sinks control classes -gets open args and puts in collection -checks if audit fields are present -other stuff Passes control to mtdLocalFormOpen on the form which: -sets form specific stuff like attached table, primary key, etc -handles form specific open args So what I meant was now the events are embedded into the class (sunk if you prefer). If a form current event occurs, then the class handles Form_Current first. Does its stuff and then passes control to the form if a custom form specific function for current event exists. Form_Current doesn't exist on the form. Sounds pretty much like what you do. As I said above, it is probably time to revisit dclsform. Stuart > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of > John W. Colby > Sent: Thursday, 4 March 2004 12:53 PM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: RE: [AccessD] Frameworks, what are they? > > > >Generally for events that I embed into the class I also add > a call to the > local form to a "local" event in case there is any form > specific stuff. So > the current event calls a function call on the form called > "FormLocalOnCurrent" or something like that. > > In my case I dimension my dclsFrm (my forms class) Withevents > in the form. > dclsFrmRAISES events in every event it sinks, which I call > AfterXXX where > XXX is the event name. AfterOnOpen for example. Any > parameters passed in > by the event sink from the form I pass right on out to the > AfterXXX event I > raise. Thus the form can sink my AfterAfterUpdate and perform any > processing it needs to do after my form class has done its processing. > > The thing to understand here is that if an event stub for an > event exists in > the form's built-in class, control is transferred there > FIRST, then to the > event stub in my class, and then (because I raise an event in my event > stubs) to the AfterXXX event in the form (if any). > > Having a form call an event in a form is "ass backwards" so > to speak. We > sink events from objects such as controls or forms. Those > objects never > call MY functions! My classes raise events as well and if > any other control > needs to sink those events then they do. By dimming my > dclsFrm Withevents, > the form can sink the events generated by my class if it > needs to do so. > > > John W. Colby > www.ColbyConsulting.com > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of > Stuart Sanders > Sent: Wednesday, March 03, 2004 10:43 PM > To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' > Subject: RE: [AccessD] Frameworks, what are they? > > > I started moving to a class based framework in the latter part of last > year, and I had briefly at the time talked about it with > Robert when we > were working on LWS. I haven't worked on it much recently, but basic > functionality is added. > > Personally I think of a framework as a skeleton of what the app needs. > Much like a framework for a QA document, or a book. In the > book example > a framework (or layout) might contain a front cover, forward, > contents, > and chapters. If you are always doing the same kind of book you might > even include all the chapters (eg the Dummies books follow a framework > layout). > > In access (or other dev tool) the framework will mostly likely start > with standard forms/queries and tables that are in all apps > you deploy - > splash, menu, maintenance tools (compact and repair, backup, etc), > Sysvars like tables. > > It will also likely have forms and supporting tables and queries for > things that are used often. Perhaps things like registration forms, > security, etc. > > For class driven systems you would then start with basic > stuff and build > on it. For example to start with you make a form class > handle standard > events. You do this by calling the class in the form open event, it > then fires up and does whatever you have set it up to do. Typically > this would include embedding standard form events into the class. It > would also be extended to standard form objects (eg if you > often use an > undo button, save button, etc), and as you extend it you may have the > class scan for control types and add standard calls. > > Generally for events that I embed into the class I also add a call to > the local form to a "local" event in case there is any form specific > stuff. So the current event calls a function call on the form called > "FormLocalOnCurrent" or something like that. > > At this stage I have two form classes. One for lookup forms > and one for > standard forms. A lookup form is a simplified data > maintenance form for > tables that don't have any foreign keys or complex data. Usually just > lists, but may have multiple fields. The classes handle all standard > buttons, code behind most controls (beforeupdate etc) and some other > generic stuff. So if you look at the forms there is a lot less code > behind it doing the driving. In some cases just the calls to > the class > to initialise and terminate. > > I also have a bunch of other classes that are supportive in > nature. For > example there are classes for standard control like text boxes, combo > boxes, checkboxes etc that the form controls call when > initialising the > controls collection. There is a class for handling a list of strings > for things like form open arguments. (CustomerID=123456;Arg2=???) > > For controls, I have adopted some naming conventions, so text controls > would only get embedded if their name started with txt. A > text control > with txd is a date field, and has some other additional code for > calendaring etc. > > I've also created formtemplates for building a class driven > form. So I > copy the template and start dropping in controls. Basica form > functionality will be handled without additional work > > I've also moved over some personal dev tools such as a form maker for > building lookup forms. These get removed at deployment time but the > forms it creates stay. > > I will see about putting up a demo at some stage on just the class > related stuff I have done so far, as what I have done so far is likely > to be a lot simpler than older frameworks. Won't have time until at > least next week though. > > I would also be interested in seeing older frameworks. At this stage > mine draws heavily on examples by John from LWS and another > developer I > work with here occasionally (doesn't inhabit this list and doesn't use > access much anymore). Some things John does I have adopted (eg > registering classes into a collection - helps with debugging > particularly as class debugging can occasionaly get annoying, and > sysvars though I have adopted a slightly different approach) > > Stuart > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of > > Robert Gracie > > Sent: Thursday, 4 March 2004 9:56 AM > > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > > Subject: RE: [AccessD] Frameworks, what are they? > > > > > > Ok so what are the basic "bones" if you will of a > framework? The basic > > skeleton I guess. > > > > Robert Gracie > > > > ************************* > > > > I am going to cc the list however. We have many developers who have > > developed their own framework. I have never seen anyone > > else's so I can't > > vouch for how complex they are now how conceptually similar > > to what I do, > > but if we address the list, perhaps we can get a discussion > > going on this > > stuff. > > > > John W. Colby > > www.ColbyConsulting.com > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: Robert Gracie [mailto:Robert at servicexp.com] > > Sent: Wednesday, March 03, 2004 8:18 PM > > To: jcolby at colbyconsulting.com > > Subject: I have a question > > > > > > John, > > I have really appreciated the help over the last few months > > in regards to > > "DEEP" programming, your examples have been very helpful. I'm > > intrigued with > > "framework" idea however I have no idea where to get started. > > My question > > is; do you have any examples of a running "framework", or any > > books that > > explain how to set this sort of thing up? > > > > Thanks Again!! > > Robert Gracie > > > > > > -- > > _______________________________________________ > > AccessD mailing list > > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > > > -- > > _______________________________________________ > > AccessD mailing list > > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From jimdettman at earthlink.net Thu Mar 4 08:58:00 2004 From: jimdettman at earthlink.net (Jim Dettman) Date: Thu, 4 Mar 2004 09:58:00 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Frameworks, what are they? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: John, I hate to mention VFP on the Access list, but in terms of Frameworks it has many and the features that they offer are listed here: http://fox.wikis.com/wc.dll?Wiki~FrameworkFeatureChart~VFP Items compared are things like Developer Tools, End User Features, etc. Quite a bit of info there on frameworks in general. If you wanted to look at one more specifically, I use VMP, which has a downloadable help file that you can look at. You can find that here: http://www.visionds.com/vmpsite/ Look under VMP 2004, Download VMPHELP.CHM Jim Dettman President, Online Computer Services of WNY, Inc. (315) 699-3443 jimdettman at earthlink.net -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of John W. Colby Sent: Wednesday, March 03, 2004 8:44 PM To: AccessD Subject: [AccessD] Frameworks, what are they? Robert, The only example I have of a running framework is my own. Unfortunately it is so complex at this point it would be undecipherable to anyone but me I'm afraid. You have heard me discuss the various functionalities I have placed into my framework. In order to understand my stuff you would have to wade through all that stuff I have mentioned. I am certainly willing to post it somewhere with an application that uses it so that you can see how I do things but I'm truly uncertain whether a discussion could address my framework without getting pretty deep pretty fast. A framework is really nothing more than a skeleton upon which you hang an application. As you need more functionality, if it is generic and useful to the next app you add it to the framework. In this day and age, you really need to be thinking classes however since they allow you to set up containers for related functionality. I am going to cc the list however. We have many developers who have developed their own framework. I have never seen anyone else's so I can't vouch for how complex they are now how conceptually similar to what I do, but if we address the list, perhaps we can get a discussion going on this stuff. John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com -----Original Message----- From: Robert Gracie [mailto:Robert at servicexp.com] Sent: Wednesday, March 03, 2004 8:18 PM To: jcolby at colbyconsulting.com Subject: I have a question John, I have really appreciated the help over the last few months in regards to "DEEP" programming, your examples have been very helpful. I'm intrigued with "framework" idea however I have no idea where to get started. My question is; do you have any examples of a running "framework", or any books that explain how to set this sort of thing up? Thanks Again!! Robert Gracie -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From gustav at cactus.dk Thu Mar 4 09:19:09 2004 From: gustav at cactus.dk (Gustav Brock) Date: Thu, 4 Mar 2004 16:19:09 +0100 Subject: [AccessD] How to Deal with Time Durations In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <10227394701.20040304161909@cactus.dk> Hi Bryan > In a new app that I am creating, of which you will probably hear ALL > about it over the next few weeks :), I have to keep track of event > durations. > Right now I have a field for the start time, and one for the duration. > Both are Date/Time fields. > The durations for the event can last from 1 second all the way up to > many hours, and possibly even days. > Should I actually be storing the start and end time and calculating the > duration? > The duration can be entered as either the actual duration or the actual > end time. > If you have done something like this, how have you handled it? That certainly depends. If you find it important or will have to use later the actual points in time, store the start and end times as full date/time values. If the durations are important, store these as hours (with decimals), minutes or seconds as to your needs. Also, how will these duration be input? By users? Often or seldom? Will input have to be validated? Against what? My best advice is to use the built in date/time functions and never fall back to "smart" methods as you will be bitten sooner or later or loose flexibility. Look up the archive on threads on this; there are several even some recent. /gustav From jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com Thu Mar 4 09:25:37 2004 From: jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com (John W. Colby) Date: Thu, 4 Mar 2004 10:25:37 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Frameworks, what are they? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Back when I was supervising that VP project I mentioned at lunch, we found and bought something called Framework for normal people or something like that. Basically starting with a purchased framework is good... they just don't seem to exist for Access. I have thought about trying to develop and sell one but reality always intervenes. John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Jim Dettman Sent: Thursday, March 04, 2004 9:58 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] Frameworks, what are they? John, I hate to mention VFP on the Access list, but in terms of Frameworks it has many and the features that they offer are listed here: http://fox.wikis.com/wc.dll?Wiki~FrameworkFeatureChart~VFP Items compared are things like Developer Tools, End User Features, etc. Quite a bit of info there on frameworks in general. If you wanted to look at one more specifically, I use VMP, which has a downloadable help file that you can look at. You can find that here: http://www.visionds.com/vmpsite/ Look under VMP 2004, Download VMPHELP.CHM Jim Dettman President, Online Computer Services of WNY, Inc. (315) 699-3443 jimdettman at earthlink.net -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of John W. Colby Sent: Wednesday, March 03, 2004 8:44 PM To: AccessD Subject: [AccessD] Frameworks, what are they? Robert, The only example I have of a running framework is my own. Unfortunately it is so complex at this point it would be undecipherable to anyone but me I'm afraid. You have heard me discuss the various functionalities I have placed into my framework. In order to understand my stuff you would have to wade through all that stuff I have mentioned. I am certainly willing to post it somewhere with an application that uses it so that you can see how I do things but I'm truly uncertain whether a discussion could address my framework without getting pretty deep pretty fast. A framework is really nothing more than a skeleton upon which you hang an application. As you need more functionality, if it is generic and useful to the next app you add it to the framework. In this day and age, you really need to be thinking classes however since they allow you to set up containers for related functionality. I am going to cc the list however. We have many developers who have developed their own framework. I have never seen anyone else's so I can't vouch for how complex they are now how conceptually similar to what I do, but if we address the list, perhaps we can get a discussion going on this stuff. John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com -----Original Message----- From: Robert Gracie [mailto:Robert at servicexp.com] Sent: Wednesday, March 03, 2004 8:18 PM To: jcolby at colbyconsulting.com Subject: I have a question John, I have really appreciated the help over the last few months in regards to "DEEP" programming, your examples have been very helpful. I'm intrigued with "framework" idea however I have no idea where to get started. My question is; do you have any examples of a running "framework", or any books that explain how to set this sort of thing up? Thanks Again!! Robert Gracie -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From john at winhaven.net Thu Mar 4 09:51:26 2004 From: john at winhaven.net (John Bartow) Date: Thu, 4 Mar 2004 09:51:26 -0600 Subject: [AccessD] Drew - Age of the Archives? In-Reply-To: <2F8793082E00D4119A1700B0D0216BF802227929@main2.marlow.com> Message-ID: I don't blame you, after the run of luck you've had! I'm leery every time I do a presentation. I don't mind speaking in front of people but it seems something always goes wrong - no matter how prepared I am. I've done presentations for conferences where the coordinator guaranteed the equipment was what I asked for and when I show up they have projectors that don't handle 1024x768 which is the only res. at which my laptop's video looks good (640 cuts the text lines up). I had another conference where I was setup 30 minutes early, everything worked fine, unplug my laptop and the first presenter plugs his in, he goes on and finishes, I plug my laptop into the projector and POOF my laptop's screen goes out. It took about 20 minutes to get it all rearranged so that my partner could run the presentation from the projected image rather than the laptop, while I talked about it. (we were showing a new app. live of course.) Luckily there was a third presenter that went on in our time slot and 500 people weren't just sitting there getting irritated. Took a month to get the screen replaced too :o( John BTW AccessD as we know it was formed in 2001 so I guess I have it narrowed down enough now :o) -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of DWUTKA at marlow.com Sent: Wednesday, March 03, 2004 11:47 AM To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: RE: [AccessD] Drew - Age of the Archives? I actually gave a presentation on the 'indexing' capabilities I built for the archives last month. After my track record with major changes/updates to the archives, I was just a little leary to give that presentation....go figure! Drew -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of John Bartow Sent: Wednesday, March 03, 2004 11:24 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] Drew - Age of the Archives? Drew, Yes, it is an interesting timeline, I thought of a few of those things too! :o) Thanks, John -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of DWUTKA at marlow.com Sent: Wednesday, March 03, 2004 10:47 AM To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: RE: [AccessD] Drew - Age of the Archives? Hmmmm, let's work backwards. I know that the archives stopping archiving this past August/September (2003), because that's when I separated from Tammy. I know the archives started using the 'Memo Field Indexing' in April of 2003, because that is when my apartment caught fire. I know I moved the archives from Marlow to my home in early January of 2003, because my DSL company went bankrupt and pulled the plug on their network then. I have no clue when I actually 'started' the archives, other then a wild guess at about 6 months before I moved it home. So I would say July or August of 2002. Drew (Interesting timeline, eh?) -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of John Bartow Sent: Tuesday, March 02, 2004 9:00 PM To: _DBA-Access Subject: [AccessD] Drew - Age of the Archives? Drew, Someone recently asked me how long I have been on this list. The only point of reference I could think of was about two years before I sent all my archives to Drew! So, Do you know when you put the archives together on your site? John "My memory is 40 years ahead of it time (I have a like I'm over 80)" Bartow -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From wdhindman at bellsouth.net Thu Mar 4 10:27:58 2004 From: wdhindman at bellsouth.net (William Hindman) Date: Thu, 4 Mar 2004 11:27:58 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Drew - Age of the Archives? References: Message-ID: <009d01c40205$a8d8d090$6101a8c0@dejpolsys> ...AccessD was alive and well long before 2001 :) William Hindman "My idea of an agreeable person is a person who agrees with me." Disraeli ----- Original Message ----- From: "John Bartow" To: "Access Developers discussion and problem solving" Sent: Thursday, March 04, 2004 10:51 AM Subject: RE: [AccessD] Drew - Age of the Archives? > I don't blame you, after the run of luck you've had! > > I'm leery every time I do a presentation. I don't mind speaking in front of > people but it seems something always goes wrong - no matter how prepared I > am. I've done presentations for conferences where the coordinator guaranteed > the equipment was what I asked for and when I show up they have projectors > that don't handle 1024x768 which is the only res. at which my laptop's video > looks good (640 cuts the text lines up). I had another conference where I > was setup 30 minutes early, everything worked fine, unplug my laptop and the > first presenter plugs his in, he goes on and finishes, I plug my laptop into > the projector and POOF my laptop's screen goes out. It took about 20 minutes > to get it all rearranged so that my partner could run the presentation from > the projected image rather than the laptop, while I talked about it. (we > were showing a new app. live of course.) Luckily there was a third presenter > that went on in our time slot and 500 people weren't just sitting there > getting irritated. Took a month to get the screen replaced too :o( > > John > > BTW AccessD as we know it was formed in 2001 so I guess I have it narrowed > down enough now :o) > > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of > DWUTKA at marlow.com > Sent: Wednesday, March 03, 2004 11:47 AM > To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com > Subject: RE: [AccessD] Drew - Age of the Archives? > > > I actually gave a presentation on the 'indexing' capabilities I built for > the archives last month. After my track record with major changes/updates > to the archives, I was just a little leary to give that presentation....go > figure! > > Drew > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of John Bartow > Sent: Wednesday, March 03, 2004 11:24 AM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: RE: [AccessD] Drew - Age of the Archives? > > > Drew, > Yes, it is an interesting timeline, I thought of a few of those things too! > :o) > > Thanks, > John > > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of > DWUTKA at marlow.com > Sent: Wednesday, March 03, 2004 10:47 AM > To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com > Subject: RE: [AccessD] Drew - Age of the Archives? > > > Hmmmm, let's work backwards. I know that the archives stopping archiving > this past August/September (2003), because that's when I separated from > Tammy. I know the archives started using the 'Memo Field Indexing' in April > of 2003, because that is when my apartment caught fire. I know I moved the > archives from Marlow to my home in early January of 2003, because my DSL > company went bankrupt and pulled the plug on their network then. > > I have no clue when I actually 'started' the archives, other then a wild > guess at about 6 months before I moved it home. So I would say July or > August of 2002. > > Drew (Interesting timeline, eh?) > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of John Bartow > Sent: Tuesday, March 02, 2004 9:00 PM > To: _DBA-Access > Subject: [AccessD] Drew - Age of the Archives? > > > Drew, > Someone recently asked me how long I have been on this list. The only point > of reference I could think of was about two years before I sent all my > archives to Drew! > > So, Do you know when you put the archives together on your site? > > John "My memory is 40 years ahead of it time (I have a like I'm over 80)" > Bartow > > > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From john at winhaven.net Thu Mar 4 10:51:06 2004 From: john at winhaven.net (John Bartow) Date: Thu, 4 Mar 2004 10:51:06 -0600 Subject: [AccessD] Drew - Age of the Archives? In-Reply-To: <009d01c40205$a8d8d090$6101a8c0@dejpolsys> Message-ID: Not according to our website! I had thought I joined in May of 2000 but when I saw that I figured it must have been May of 2001. I could be wrong. The only way to verify it woul dbe backup tapes and BLA! -its bad enough when I have to use them :o) -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of William Hindman Sent: Thursday, March 04, 2004 10:28 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Drew - Age of the Archives? ...AccessD was alive and well long before 2001 :) William Hindman "My idea of an agreeable person is a person who agrees with me." Disraeli ----- Original Message ----- From: "John Bartow" To: "Access Developers discussion and problem solving" Sent: Thursday, March 04, 2004 10:51 AM Subject: RE: [AccessD] Drew - Age of the Archives? > I don't blame you, after the run of luck you've had! > > I'm leery every time I do a presentation. I don't mind speaking in front of > people but it seems something always goes wrong - no matter how prepared I > am. I've done presentations for conferences where the coordinator guaranteed > the equipment was what I asked for and when I show up they have projectors > that don't handle 1024x768 which is the only res. at which my laptop's video > looks good (640 cuts the text lines up). I had another conference where I > was setup 30 minutes early, everything worked fine, unplug my laptop and the > first presenter plugs his in, he goes on and finishes, I plug my laptop into > the projector and POOF my laptop's screen goes out. It took about 20 minutes > to get it all rearranged so that my partner could run the presentation from > the projected image rather than the laptop, while I talked about it. (we > were showing a new app. live of course.) Luckily there was a third presenter > that went on in our time slot and 500 people weren't just sitting there > getting irritated. Took a month to get the screen replaced too :o( > > John > > BTW AccessD as we know it was formed in 2001 so I guess I have it narrowed > down enough now :o) > > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of > DWUTKA at marlow.com > Sent: Wednesday, March 03, 2004 11:47 AM > To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com > Subject: RE: [AccessD] Drew - Age of the Archives? > > > I actually gave a presentation on the 'indexing' capabilities I built for > the archives last month. After my track record with major changes/updates > to the archives, I was just a little leary to give that presentation....go > figure! > > Drew > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of John Bartow > Sent: Wednesday, March 03, 2004 11:24 AM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: RE: [AccessD] Drew - Age of the Archives? > > > Drew, > Yes, it is an interesting timeline, I thought of a few of those things too! > :o) > > Thanks, > John > > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of > DWUTKA at marlow.com > Sent: Wednesday, March 03, 2004 10:47 AM > To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com > Subject: RE: [AccessD] Drew - Age of the Archives? > > > Hmmmm, let's work backwards. I know that the archives stopping archiving > this past August/September (2003), because that's when I separated from > Tammy. I know the archives started using the 'Memo Field Indexing' in April > of 2003, because that is when my apartment caught fire. I know I moved the > archives from Marlow to my home in early January of 2003, because my DSL > company went bankrupt and pulled the plug on their network then. > > I have no clue when I actually 'started' the archives, other then a wild > guess at about 6 months before I moved it home. So I would say July or > August of 2002. > > Drew (Interesting timeline, eh?) > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of John Bartow > Sent: Tuesday, March 02, 2004 9:00 PM > To: _DBA-Access > Subject: [AccessD] Drew - Age of the Archives? > > > Drew, > Someone recently asked me how long I have been on this list. The only point > of reference I could think of was about two years before I sent all my > archives to Drew! > > So, Do you know when you put the archives together on your site? > > John "My memory is 40 years ahead of it time (I have a like I'm over 80)" > Bartow > > > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From cfoust at infostatsystems.com Thu Mar 4 10:57:40 2004 From: cfoust at infostatsystems.com (Charlotte Foust) Date: Thu, 4 Mar 2004 08:57:40 -0800 Subject: [AccessD] Add All to List Message-ID: John, >>The [] generally denotes a field and usually tells the compiler to try and interpret whatever is between the [] as a field name. I have to disagree. The [] denotes an object as distinct from a variable. If you use square brackets around a control name in CBF and leave off the Me. Or Me!, Access will correctly infer that you are referring to an object on the form, even if you screw up the spelling. Without the square brackets, it will think you have an undeclared variable. Charlotte Foust -----Original Message----- From: John W. Colby [mailto:jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com] Sent: Thursday, March 04, 2004 6:04 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] Add All to List Is this combo bound to a nontext field? If so then the first column (column(0) must be a numeric value. Furthermore the syntax Me![cboNCSANo] MAY be correct but I don't think so. It should be me!cboNCNSANo The [] generally denotes a field and usually tells the compiler to try and interpret whatever is between the [] as a field name. In any event, whether or not the [] is legal, me!CtlName is definitely valid. Further if I'm not mistaken (assuming that column(0) of the combo is not bound to a numeric field which by itself would be causing your problems) The default property of a combo is column(0) which would contain the value "*" so the case should be if me!CboNCSANo = "*" then else endif You can make it unambiguous in any case by specifying the column you intend to evaluate if me!CboNCSANo.column(0) = "*" then else endif or if me!CboNCSANo.column(1) = "All" then else endif FURTHER... the SQL statement has to use a LIKE instead of an = DoCmd.ApplyFilter , "[NCSAID] LIKE " & str(Me![cboNCSANo]) The reason is that LIKE evaluates an * as a wildcard whereas = evaluates the * literally, i.e. it would match any records with an asterisk in the field. I don't think any of this has anything to do with your type mismatch though John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Hollis,Virginia Sent: Thursday, March 04, 2004 8:29 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: [AccessD] Add All to List Still struggling... On the recordsource for the combo box I put: SELECT tbl_NCSA.NCSAID, tbl_NCSA.NCSANo FROM tbl_NCSA; UNION SELECT "*", "All" FROM tbl_NCSA; This gets me the word ALL in the list. Then on the AfterUpdate of cboNCSANo, I put (this gives me a type mismatch when I select All): If Me![cboNCSANo] = "All" Then DoCmd.ShowAllRecords Else DoCmd.ApplyFilter , "[NCSAID] = " & str(Me![cboNCSANo]) End If Va. -----Original Message----- From: William Hindman [mailto:wdhindman at bellsouth.net] Sent: Wednesday, March 03, 2004 4:07 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Add All to List ...the easiest way is to "if" the combo's after update event :) After Update Event cboCustomer If Me![cboCustomer] = "" Then DoCmd ShowAllRecords Else DoCmd ApplyFilter , "[State] = Forms![cboCustomer]![cboCustomer]" End If William Hindman "My idea of an agreeable person is a person who agrees with me." Disraeli ----- Original Message ----- From: "Hollis,Virginia" To: "'Access Developers discussion and problem solving'" Sent: Wednesday, March 03, 2004 4:29 PM Subject: RE: [AccessD] Add All to List > I don't know what I am doing wrong.... The all shows at the top of the list, > but All the records do not show on the subform. The combobox is still > showing the first record when it opens and the subform is filtered for that > record. > > What makes the All part of "ALL" in the combo box work? > > Virginia > > -----Original Message----- > From: William Hindman [mailto:wdhindman at bellsouth.net] > Sent: Wednesday, March 03, 2004 8:09 AM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: Re: [AccessD] Add All to List > > > Virginia > > ...use a UNION SELECT in the combo record source to add an ALL. > > ...example: > > SELECT DISTINCTROW Customers.Company, Customers.[Customer Number] FROM > Customers UNION SELECT "","" FROM Customers ORDER BY Customers.Company; > > William Hindman "My idea of an agreeable person is a person who agrees with > me." Disraeli > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Hollis,Virginia" > To: > Sent: Wednesday, March 03, 2004 8:45 AM > Subject: [AccessD] Add All to List > > > > How do you add All to List? This form contains 2 combo boxes on a > > main > form. > > Selecting data shows data on a subform for the related combo box choices. > > > > I need to either have an All in the combo boxes or when the form > > opens, I > > would like them to be blank. > > > > I tried this code in the On Open of the main form, but it still > > opens to > > the first record with entries in both combo boxes. > > > > With Me > > .cboNCSANo = "" > > .cboProcedure = "" > > End With > > > > Virginia > > -- > > _______________________________________________ > > AccessD mailing list > > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From jimdettman at earthlink.net Thu Mar 4 10:59:33 2004 From: jimdettman at earthlink.net (Jim Dettman) Date: Thu, 4 Mar 2004 11:59:33 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Frameworks, what are they? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: John, <> You might be thinking me "Mere Mortals" <> Yes I would agree and I've been thinking of why there are not any for Access. It's certainly been around long enough. I've thought of a couple things: 1. Most Access apps are "developed" by non-professionals, so they have a tendency to use what's in front of them. 2. Because of #1, most of the apps developed are fairly simple. 3. For a professional developer, Access already provides significant tools and features to use for development (i.e. Main/Subforms). << I have thought about trying to develop and sell one but reality always intervenes.>> I hear you there. During the A2 release, I really started digging into the MDB structure with the intent of offering database utilities. Took a lot of time and I had to pay the bills. So I gave up on it. I figured that by the time I did it, the JET team would either come out with utilities or take care of the corruption issue. Now I could kick myself in the butt for not sticking with it. Jim (315) 699-3443 jimdettman at earthlink.net -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of John W. Colby Sent: Thursday, March 04, 2004 10:26 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] Frameworks, what are they? Back when I was supervising that VP project I mentioned at lunch, we found and bought something called Framework for normal people or something like that. Basically starting with a purchased framework is good... they just don't seem to exist for Access. I have thought about trying to develop and sell one but reality always intervenes. John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Jim Dettman Sent: Thursday, March 04, 2004 9:58 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] Frameworks, what are they? John, I hate to mention VFP on the Access list, but in terms of Frameworks it has many and the features that they offer are listed here: http://fox.wikis.com/wc.dll?Wiki~FrameworkFeatureChart~VFP Items compared are things like Developer Tools, End User Features, etc. Quite a bit of info there on frameworks in general. If you wanted to look at one more specifically, I use VMP, which has a downloadable help file that you can look at. You can find that here: http://www.visionds.com/vmpsite/ Look under VMP 2004, Download VMPHELP.CHM Jim Dettman President, Online Computer Services of WNY, Inc. (315) 699-3443 jimdettman at earthlink.net -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of John W. Colby Sent: Wednesday, March 03, 2004 8:44 PM To: AccessD Subject: [AccessD] Frameworks, what are they? Robert, The only example I have of a running framework is my own. Unfortunately it is so complex at this point it would be undecipherable to anyone but me I'm afraid. You have heard me discuss the various functionalities I have placed into my framework. In order to understand my stuff you would have to wade through all that stuff I have mentioned. I am certainly willing to post it somewhere with an application that uses it so that you can see how I do things but I'm truly uncertain whether a discussion could address my framework without getting pretty deep pretty fast. A framework is really nothing more than a skeleton upon which you hang an application. As you need more functionality, if it is generic and useful to the next app you add it to the framework. In this day and age, you really need to be thinking classes however since they allow you to set up containers for related functionality. I am going to cc the list however. We have many developers who have developed their own framework. I have never seen anyone else's so I can't vouch for how complex they are now how conceptually similar to what I do, but if we address the list, perhaps we can get a discussion going on this stuff. John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com -----Original Message----- From: Robert Gracie [mailto:Robert at servicexp.com] Sent: Wednesday, March 03, 2004 8:18 PM To: jcolby at colbyconsulting.com Subject: I have a question John, I have really appreciated the help over the last few months in regards to "DEEP" programming, your examples have been very helpful. I'm intrigued with "framework" idea however I have no idea where to get started. My question is; do you have any examples of a running "framework", or any books that explain how to set this sort of thing up? Thanks Again!! Robert Gracie -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From garykjos at hotmail.com Thu Mar 4 11:00:15 2004 From: garykjos at hotmail.com (Gary Kjos) Date: Thu, 04 Mar 2004 11:00:15 -0600 Subject: [AccessD] A2K: BOUND to be a problem Message-ID: Hi Francisco, You don't need a form to have that happen. Does the same thing in just regular datasheet mode on a table too. Sorry I can't tell you how (or IF) that functionality can be turned off though. Good description of it. ;-) Gary Kjos garykjos at hotmail.com _________________________________________________________________ Frustrated with dial-up? Lightning-fast Internet access for as low as $29.95/month. http://click.atdmt.com/AVE/go/onm00200360ave/direct/01/ From stuart at pacific.net.hk Thu Mar 4 11:01:02 2004 From: stuart at pacific.net.hk (Stuart Sanders) Date: Fri, 5 Mar 2004 01:01:02 +0800 Subject: [AccessD] Drew - Age of the Archives? In-Reply-To: <009d01c40205$a8d8d090$6101a8c0@dejpolsys> Message-ID: <004701c4020a$475cf760$2a00a8c0@nbbits01> I still have a copy of the temporary accessD emails when we briefly moved to eGroups when the old server wnet down and we werent sure if the plug had been pulled. June 2000 the eGroups was started. Still exists on Yahoo Groups. Stuart > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of > William Hindman > Sent: Friday, 5 March 2004 12:28 AM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: Re: [AccessD] Drew - Age of the Archives? > > > ...AccessD was alive and well long before 2001 :) > > William Hindman "My idea of an agreeable person is a person > who agrees with > me." Disraeli > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "John Bartow" > To: "Access Developers discussion and problem solving" > > Sent: Thursday, March 04, 2004 10:51 AM > Subject: RE: [AccessD] Drew - Age of the Archives? > > > > I don't blame you, after the run of luck you've had! > > > > I'm leery every time I do a presentation. I don't mind > speaking in front > of > > people but it seems something always goes wrong - no matter > how prepared I > > am. I've done presentations for conferences where the coordinator > guaranteed > > the equipment was what I asked for and when I show up they > have projectors > > that don't handle 1024x768 which is the only res. at which > my laptop's > video > > looks good (640 cuts the text lines up). I had another > conference where I > > was setup 30 minutes early, everything worked fine, unplug > my laptop and > the > > first presenter plugs his in, he goes on and finishes, I > plug my laptop > into > > the projector and POOF my laptop's screen goes out. It took about 20 > minutes > > to get it all rearranged so that my partner could run the > presentation > from > > the projected image rather than the laptop, while I talked > about it. (we > > were showing a new app. live of course.) Luckily there was a third > presenter > > that went on in our time slot and 500 people weren't just > sitting there > > getting irritated. Took a month to get the screen replaced too :o( > > > > John > > > > BTW AccessD as we know it was formed in 2001 so I guess I > have it narrowed > > down enough now :o) > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of > > DWUTKA at marlow.com > > Sent: Wednesday, March 03, 2004 11:47 AM > > To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com > > Subject: RE: [AccessD] Drew - Age of the Archives? > > > > > > I actually gave a presentation on the 'indexing' > capabilities I built for > > the archives last month. After my track record with major > changes/updates > > to the archives, I was just a little leary to give that > presentation....go > > figure! > > > > Drew > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of > John Bartow > > Sent: Wednesday, March 03, 2004 11:24 AM > > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > > Subject: RE: [AccessD] Drew - Age of the Archives? > > > > > > Drew, > > Yes, it is an interesting timeline, I thought of a few of > those things > too! > > :o) > > > > Thanks, > > John > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of > > DWUTKA at marlow.com > > Sent: Wednesday, March 03, 2004 10:47 AM > > To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com > > Subject: RE: [AccessD] Drew - Age of the Archives? > > > > > > Hmmmm, let's work backwards. I know that the archives > stopping archiving > > this past August/September (2003), because that's when I > separated from > > Tammy. I know the archives started using the 'Memo Field > Indexing' in > April > > of 2003, because that is when my apartment caught fire. I > know I moved > the > > archives from Marlow to my home in early January of 2003, > because my DSL > > company went bankrupt and pulled the plug on their network then. > > > > I have no clue when I actually 'started' the archives, > other then a wild > > guess at about 6 months before I moved it home. So I would > say July or > > August of 2002. > > > > Drew (Interesting timeline, eh?) > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of > John Bartow > > Sent: Tuesday, March 02, 2004 9:00 PM > > To: _DBA-Access > > Subject: [AccessD] Drew - Age of the Archives? > > > > > > Drew, > > Someone recently asked me how long I have been on this > list. The only > point > > of reference I could think of was about two years before I > sent all my > > archives to Drew! > > > > So, Do you know when you put the archives together on your site? > > > > John "My memory is 40 years ahead of it time (I have a like > I'm over 80)" > > Bartow > > > > > > -- > > _______________________________________________ > > AccessD mailing list > > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > -- > > _______________________________________________ > > AccessD mailing list > > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > > > > > -- > > _______________________________________________ > > AccessD mailing list > > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > -- > > _______________________________________________ > > AccessD mailing list > > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > > > > > -- > > _______________________________________________ > > AccessD mailing list > > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > From cfoust at infostatsystems.com Thu Mar 4 11:02:17 2004 From: cfoust at infostatsystems.com (Charlotte Foust) Date: Thu, 4 Mar 2004 09:02:17 -0800 Subject: [AccessD] Add All to List Message-ID: You have to match datatypes in the union. If NCSAID is numeric, then you have to use a number, like -1 for instance, instead of the "*". If NCSANo is numeric, you need to use something like CStr(tbl_NCSA.NCSANo) in order to accommodate the "All" value. Charlotte Foust -----Original Message----- From: Hollis,Virginia [mailto:HollisVJ at pgdp.usec.com] Sent: Thursday, March 04, 2004 5:29 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: [AccessD] Add All to List Still struggling... On the recordsource for the combo box I put: SELECT tbl_NCSA.NCSAID, tbl_NCSA.NCSANo FROM tbl_NCSA; UNION SELECT "*", "All" FROM tbl_NCSA; This gets me the word ALL in the list. Then on the AfterUpdate of cboNCSANo, I put (this gives me a type mismatch when I select All): If Me![cboNCSANo] = "All" Then DoCmd.ShowAllRecords Else DoCmd.ApplyFilter , "[NCSAID] = " & str(Me![cboNCSANo]) End If Va. -----Original Message----- From: William Hindman [mailto:wdhindman at bellsouth.net] Sent: Wednesday, March 03, 2004 4:07 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Add All to List ...the easiest way is to "if" the combo's after update event :) After Update Event cboCustomer If Me![cboCustomer] = "" Then DoCmd ShowAllRecords Else DoCmd ApplyFilter , "[State] = Forms![cboCustomer]![cboCustomer]" End If William Hindman "My idea of an agreeable person is a person who agrees with me." Disraeli ----- Original Message ----- From: "Hollis,Virginia" To: "'Access Developers discussion and problem solving'" Sent: Wednesday, March 03, 2004 4:29 PM Subject: RE: [AccessD] Add All to List > I don't know what I am doing wrong.... The all shows at the top of the list, > but All the records do not show on the subform. The combobox is still > showing the first record when it opens and the subform is filtered for that > record. > > What makes the All part of "ALL" in the combo box work? > > Virginia > > -----Original Message----- > From: William Hindman [mailto:wdhindman at bellsouth.net] > Sent: Wednesday, March 03, 2004 8:09 AM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: Re: [AccessD] Add All to List > > > Virginia > > ...use a UNION SELECT in the combo record source to add an ALL. > > ...example: > > SELECT DISTINCTROW Customers.Company, Customers.[Customer Number] FROM > Customers UNION SELECT "","" FROM Customers ORDER BY Customers.Company; > > William Hindman "My idea of an agreeable person is a person who agrees with > me." Disraeli > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Hollis,Virginia" > To: > Sent: Wednesday, March 03, 2004 8:45 AM > Subject: [AccessD] Add All to List > > > > How do you add All to List? This form contains 2 combo boxes on a > > main > form. > > Selecting data shows data on a subform for the related combo box choices. > > > > I need to either have an All in the combo boxes or when the form > > opens, I > > would like them to be blank. > > > > I tried this code in the On Open of the main form, but it still > > opens to > > the first record with entries in both combo boxes. > > > > With Me > > .cboNCSANo = "" > > .cboProcedure = "" > > End With > > > > Virginia > > -- > > _______________________________________________ > > AccessD mailing list > > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From cfoust at infostatsystems.com Thu Mar 4 11:04:43 2004 From: cfoust at infostatsystems.com (Charlotte Foust) Date: Thu, 4 Mar 2004 09:04:43 -0800 Subject: [AccessD] OT: MZ-Tools, Smart Indenter Message-ID: I use MZ-Tools daily. It makes things like inserting error handlers WAY easier than anything else I've found. Charlotte Foust -----Original Message----- From: S D [mailto:accessd667 at yahoo.com] Sent: Thursday, March 04, 2004 1:34 AM To: accessd Subject: [AccessD] OT: MZ-Tools, Smart Indenter Hi group, For those who do not use MZ-Tools and/ or Smart Indenter. Check 'm out! Great free tools that save a lot of time. Sander PS: I didn't build these or anything like it. I only use them :-) --------------------------------- Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Search - Find what you're looking for faster. -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From Bryan_Carbonnell at cbc.ca Thu Mar 4 11:33:17 2004 From: Bryan_Carbonnell at cbc.ca (Bryan Carbonnell) Date: Thu, 04 Mar 2004 12:33:17 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] RE: Age of the List was (Drew - Age of the Archives?) Message-ID: Well, actually AccessD, as a list has been around for more than 7 years, IIRC. It was originally hosted by David Scott at the MT Group. DatabaseAdvisors, Inc has only been around since 2001 I just had a quick look at the Internet archive and have come up with a reference from 1997 (http://web.archive.org/web/19971221192627/http://mtgroup.com/) but I'm sure it's been around for longer than that. Bryan Carbonnell bryan_carbonnell at cbc.ca >>> john at winhaven.net 04-Mar-04 11:51:06 AM >>> Not according to our website! I had thought I joined in May of 2000 but when I saw that I figured it must have been May of 2001. I could be wrong. The only way to verify it woul dbe backup tapes and BLA! -its bad enough when I have to use them :o) -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of William Hindman Sent: Thursday, March 04, 2004 10:28 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Drew - Age of the Archives? ...AccessD was alive and well long before 2001 :) William Hindman "My idea of an agreeable person is a person who agrees with me." Disraeli ----- Original Message ----- From: "John Bartow" To: "Access Developers discussion and problem solving" Sent: Thursday, March 04, 2004 10:51 AM Subject: RE: [AccessD] Drew - Age of the Archives? > I don't blame you, after the run of luck you've had! > > I'm leery every time I do a presentation. I don't mind speaking in front of > people but it seems something always goes wrong - no matter how prepared I > am. I've done presentations for conferences where the coordinator guaranteed > the equipment was what I asked for and when I show up they have projectors > that don't handle 1024x768 which is the only res. at which my laptop's video > looks good (640 cuts the text lines up). I had another conference where I > was setup 30 minutes early, everything worked fine, unplug my laptop and the > first presenter plugs his in, he goes on and finishes, I plug my laptop into > the projector and POOF my laptop's screen goes out. It took about 20 minutes > to get it all rearranged so that my partner could run the presentation from > the projected image rather than the laptop, while I talked about it. (we > were showing a new app. live of course.) Luckily there was a third presenter > that went on in our time slot and 500 people weren't just sitting there > getting irritated. Took a month to get the screen replaced too :o( > > John > > BTW AccessD as we know it was formed in 2001 so I guess I have it narrowed > down enough now :o) > > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of > DWUTKA at marlow.com > Sent: Wednesday, March 03, 2004 11:47 AM > To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com > Subject: RE: [AccessD] Drew - Age of the Archives? > > > I actually gave a presentation on the 'indexing' capabilities I built for > the archives last month. After my track record with major changes/updates > to the archives, I was just a little leary to give that presentation....go > figure! > > Drew > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of John Bartow > Sent: Wednesday, March 03, 2004 11:24 AM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: RE: [AccessD] Drew - Age of the Archives? > > > Drew, > Yes, it is an interesting timeline, I thought of a few of those things too! > :o) > > Thanks, > John > > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of > DWUTKA at marlow.com > Sent: Wednesday, March 03, 2004 10:47 AM > To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com > Subject: RE: [AccessD] Drew - Age of the Archives? > > > Hmmmm, let's work backwards. I know that the archives stopping archiving > this past August/September (2003), because that's when I separated from > Tammy. I know the archives started using the 'Memo Field Indexing' in April > of 2003, because that is when my apartment caught fire. I know I moved the > archives from Marlow to my home in early January of 2003, because my DSL > company went bankrupt and pulled the plug on their network then. > > I have no clue when I actually 'started' the archives, other then a wild > guess at about 6 months before I moved it home. So I would say July or > August of 2002. > > Drew (Interesting timeline, eh?) > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of John Bartow > Sent: Tuesday, March 02, 2004 9:00 PM > To: _DBA-Access > Subject: [AccessD] Drew - Age of the Archives? > > > Drew, > Someone recently asked me how long I have been on this list. The only point > of reference I could think of was about two years before I sent all my > archives to Drew! > > So, Do you know when you put the archives together on your site? > > John "My memory is 40 years ahead of it time (I have a like I'm over 80)" > Bartow > > > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From DWUTKA at marlow.com Thu Mar 4 11:35:20 2004 From: DWUTKA at marlow.com (DWUTKA at marlow.com) Date: Thu, 4 Mar 2004 11:35:20 -0600 Subject: [AccessD] Drew - Age of the Archives? Message-ID: <2F8793082E00D4119A1700B0D0216BF802227938@main2.marlow.com> LOL. Been there myself, several times. My biggest 'presentation' issue, is due to the situation I am in. I am half of an IT department, and the rest of the company is relatively clueless when it comes to computers. So when I am presenting a new 'project', I will almost always get a 'This should be easy, but how do I do.....'. What they ask for is usually WAY beyond the scope of the project, but to them, it's just another magic button. Gotta love it! Drew -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of John Bartow Sent: Thursday, March 04, 2004 9:51 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] Drew - Age of the Archives? I don't blame you, after the run of luck you've had! I'm leery every time I do a presentation. I don't mind speaking in front of people but it seems something always goes wrong - no matter how prepared I am. I've done presentations for conferences where the coordinator guaranteed the equipment was what I asked for and when I show up they have projectors that don't handle 1024x768 which is the only res. at which my laptop's video looks good (640 cuts the text lines up). I had another conference where I was setup 30 minutes early, everything worked fine, unplug my laptop and the first presenter plugs his in, he goes on and finishes, I plug my laptop into the projector and POOF my laptop's screen goes out. It took about 20 minutes to get it all rearranged so that my partner could run the presentation from the projected image rather than the laptop, while I talked about it. (we were showing a new app. live of course.) Luckily there was a third presenter that went on in our time slot and 500 people weren't just sitting there getting irritated. Took a month to get the screen replaced too :o( John BTW AccessD as we know it was formed in 2001 so I guess I have it narrowed down enough now :o) -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of DWUTKA at marlow.com Sent: Wednesday, March 03, 2004 11:47 AM To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: RE: [AccessD] Drew - Age of the Archives? I actually gave a presentation on the 'indexing' capabilities I built for the archives last month. After my track record with major changes/updates to the archives, I was just a little leary to give that presentation....go figure! Drew -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of John Bartow Sent: Wednesday, March 03, 2004 11:24 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] Drew - Age of the Archives? Drew, Yes, it is an interesting timeline, I thought of a few of those things too! :o) Thanks, John -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of DWUTKA at marlow.com Sent: Wednesday, March 03, 2004 10:47 AM To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: RE: [AccessD] Drew - Age of the Archives? Hmmmm, let's work backwards. I know that the archives stopping archiving this past August/September (2003), because that's when I separated from Tammy. I know the archives started using the 'Memo Field Indexing' in April of 2003, because that is when my apartment caught fire. I know I moved the archives from Marlow to my home in early January of 2003, because my DSL company went bankrupt and pulled the plug on their network then. I have no clue when I actually 'started' the archives, other then a wild guess at about 6 months before I moved it home. So I would say July or August of 2002. Drew (Interesting timeline, eh?) -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of John Bartow Sent: Tuesday, March 02, 2004 9:00 PM To: _DBA-Access Subject: [AccessD] Drew - Age of the Archives? Drew, Someone recently asked me how long I have been on this list. The only point of reference I could think of was about two years before I sent all my archives to Drew! So, Do you know when you put the archives together on your site? John "My memory is 40 years ahead of it time (I have a like I'm over 80)" Bartow -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com Thu Mar 4 11:45:28 2004 From: jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com (John W. Colby) Date: Thu, 4 Mar 2004 12:45:28 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Add All to List In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Learn something new every day. 8-) John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Charlotte Foust Sent: Thursday, March 04, 2004 11:58 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] Add All to List John, >>The [] generally denotes a field and usually tells the compiler to try and interpret whatever is between the [] as a field name. I have to disagree. The [] denotes an object as distinct from a variable. If you use square brackets around a control name in CBF and leave off the Me. Or Me!, Access will correctly infer that you are referring to an object on the form, even if you screw up the spelling. Without the square brackets, it will think you have an undeclared variable. Charlotte Foust -----Original Message----- From: John W. Colby [mailto:jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com] Sent: Thursday, March 04, 2004 6:04 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] Add All to List Is this combo bound to a nontext field? If so then the first column (column(0) must be a numeric value. Furthermore the syntax Me![cboNCSANo] MAY be correct but I don't think so. It should be me!cboNCNSANo The [] generally denotes a field and usually tells the compiler to try and interpret whatever is between the [] as a field name. In any event, whether or not the [] is legal, me!CtlName is definitely valid. Further if I'm not mistaken (assuming that column(0) of the combo is not bound to a numeric field which by itself would be causing your problems) The default property of a combo is column(0) which would contain the value "*" so the case should be if me!CboNCSANo = "*" then else endif You can make it unambiguous in any case by specifying the column you intend to evaluate if me!CboNCSANo.column(0) = "*" then else endif or if me!CboNCSANo.column(1) = "All" then else endif FURTHER... the SQL statement has to use a LIKE instead of an = DoCmd.ApplyFilter , "[NCSAID] LIKE " & str(Me![cboNCSANo]) The reason is that LIKE evaluates an * as a wildcard whereas = evaluates the * literally, i.e. it would match any records with an asterisk in the field. I don't think any of this has anything to do with your type mismatch though John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Hollis,Virginia Sent: Thursday, March 04, 2004 8:29 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: [AccessD] Add All to List Still struggling... On the recordsource for the combo box I put: SELECT tbl_NCSA.NCSAID, tbl_NCSA.NCSANo FROM tbl_NCSA; UNION SELECT "*", "All" FROM tbl_NCSA; This gets me the word ALL in the list. Then on the AfterUpdate of cboNCSANo, I put (this gives me a type mismatch when I select All): If Me![cboNCSANo] = "All" Then DoCmd.ShowAllRecords Else DoCmd.ApplyFilter , "[NCSAID] = " & str(Me![cboNCSANo]) End If Va. -----Original Message----- From: William Hindman [mailto:wdhindman at bellsouth.net] Sent: Wednesday, March 03, 2004 4:07 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Add All to List ...the easiest way is to "if" the combo's after update event :) After Update Event cboCustomer If Me![cboCustomer] = "" Then DoCmd ShowAllRecords Else DoCmd ApplyFilter , "[State] = Forms![cboCustomer]![cboCustomer]" End If William Hindman "My idea of an agreeable person is a person who agrees with me." Disraeli ----- Original Message ----- From: "Hollis,Virginia" To: "'Access Developers discussion and problem solving'" Sent: Wednesday, March 03, 2004 4:29 PM Subject: RE: [AccessD] Add All to List > I don't know what I am doing wrong.... The all shows at the top of the list, > but All the records do not show on the subform. The combobox is still > showing the first record when it opens and the subform is filtered for that > record. > > What makes the All part of "ALL" in the combo box work? > > Virginia > > -----Original Message----- > From: William Hindman [mailto:wdhindman at bellsouth.net] > Sent: Wednesday, March 03, 2004 8:09 AM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: Re: [AccessD] Add All to List > > > Virginia > > ...use a UNION SELECT in the combo record source to add an ALL. > > ...example: > > SELECT DISTINCTROW Customers.Company, Customers.[Customer Number] FROM > Customers UNION SELECT "","" FROM Customers ORDER BY Customers.Company; > > William Hindman "My idea of an agreeable person is a person who agrees with > me." Disraeli > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Hollis,Virginia" > To: > Sent: Wednesday, March 03, 2004 8:45 AM > Subject: [AccessD] Add All to List > > > > How do you add All to List? This form contains 2 combo boxes on a > > main > form. > > Selecting data shows data on a subform for the related combo box choices. > > > > I need to either have an All in the combo boxes or when the form > > opens, I > > would like them to be blank. > > > > I tried this code in the On Open of the main form, but it still > > opens to > > the first record with entries in both combo boxes. > > > > With Me > > .cboNCSANo = "" > > .cboProcedure = "" > > End With > > > > Virginia > > -- > > _______________________________________________ > > AccessD mailing list > > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com Thu Mar 4 11:48:05 2004 From: jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com (John W. Colby) Date: Thu, 4 Mar 2004 12:48:05 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Frameworks, what are they? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: That would be it. Mere mortals. John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Jim Dettman Sent: Thursday, March 04, 2004 12:00 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] Frameworks, what are they? John, <> You might be thinking me "Mere Mortals" <> Yes I would agree and I've been thinking of why there are not any for Access. It's certainly been around long enough. I've thought of a couple things: 1. Most Access apps are "developed" by non-professionals, so they have a tendency to use what's in front of them. 2. Because of #1, most of the apps developed are fairly simple. 3. For a professional developer, Access already provides significant tools and features to use for development (i.e. Main/Subforms). << I have thought about trying to develop and sell one but reality always intervenes.>> I hear you there. During the A2 release, I really started digging into the MDB structure with the intent of offering database utilities. Took a lot of time and I had to pay the bills. So I gave up on it. I figured that by the time I did it, the JET team would either come out with utilities or take care of the corruption issue. Now I could kick myself in the butt for not sticking with it. Jim (315) 699-3443 jimdettman at earthlink.net -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of John W. Colby Sent: Thursday, March 04, 2004 10:26 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] Frameworks, what are they? Back when I was supervising that VP project I mentioned at lunch, we found and bought something called Framework for normal people or something like that. Basically starting with a purchased framework is good... they just don't seem to exist for Access. I have thought about trying to develop and sell one but reality always intervenes. John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Jim Dettman Sent: Thursday, March 04, 2004 9:58 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] Frameworks, what are they? John, I hate to mention VFP on the Access list, but in terms of Frameworks it has many and the features that they offer are listed here: http://fox.wikis.com/wc.dll?Wiki~FrameworkFeatureChart~VFP Items compared are things like Developer Tools, End User Features, etc. Quite a bit of info there on frameworks in general. If you wanted to look at one more specifically, I use VMP, which has a downloadable help file that you can look at. You can find that here: http://www.visionds.com/vmpsite/ Look under VMP 2004, Download VMPHELP.CHM Jim Dettman President, Online Computer Services of WNY, Inc. (315) 699-3443 jimdettman at earthlink.net -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of John W. Colby Sent: Wednesday, March 03, 2004 8:44 PM To: AccessD Subject: [AccessD] Frameworks, what are they? Robert, The only example I have of a running framework is my own. Unfortunately it is so complex at this point it would be undecipherable to anyone but me I'm afraid. You have heard me discuss the various functionalities I have placed into my framework. In order to understand my stuff you would have to wade through all that stuff I have mentioned. I am certainly willing to post it somewhere with an application that uses it so that you can see how I do things but I'm truly uncertain whether a discussion could address my framework without getting pretty deep pretty fast. A framework is really nothing more than a skeleton upon which you hang an application. As you need more functionality, if it is generic and useful to the next app you add it to the framework. In this day and age, you really need to be thinking classes however since they allow you to set up containers for related functionality. I am going to cc the list however. We have many developers who have developed their own framework. I have never seen anyone else's so I can't vouch for how complex they are now how conceptually similar to what I do, but if we address the list, perhaps we can get a discussion going on this stuff. John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com -----Original Message----- From: Robert Gracie [mailto:Robert at servicexp.com] Sent: Wednesday, March 03, 2004 8:18 PM To: jcolby at colbyconsulting.com Subject: I have a question John, I have really appreciated the help over the last few months in regards to "DEEP" programming, your examples have been very helpful. I'm intrigued with "framework" idea however I have no idea where to get started. My question is; do you have any examples of a running "framework", or any books that explain how to set this sort of thing up? Thanks Again!! Robert Gracie -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From dw-murphy at cox.net Thu Mar 4 11:58:44 2004 From: dw-murphy at cox.net (Doug Murphy) Date: Thu, 4 Mar 2004 09:58:44 -0800 Subject: [AccessD] Deployment In-Reply-To: <006901c40137$fc4cb0d0$6801a8c0@HAL9002> Message-ID: <001001c40212$56329940$8500a8c0@CX615377a> Hi Rocky, I have done several install packages using XP Deveoper, Wise and Sagekey and the package is usually a little less than 60 Meg. If your users have high speed connections this isn't too bad to download. Could be painfull over a dial up connection. Doug Douglas Murphy Murphy's Creativity (619) 334-5121 doug at murphyscreativity.com www.murphyscreativity.com -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Rocky Smolin - Beach Access Software Sent: Wednesday, March 03, 2004 7:56 AM To: AccessD at databaseadvisors.com Subject: [AccessD] Deployment Dear List: I've got an app I'm developing for the consumer market and we're in beta testing now. It's in A2K so all the betas have to have Access. Eventually it will have to be packaged as a run-time. But at that point it will be shrink-wrapped. In the short term we could expand our beta testing universe with a run-time. So I'm trying to figure out the best way to do this. The problem AFAIK with the run-times is their size. Right now we can email the mde to a beta tester and it's about 3-4MB. If I put up a run-time on my web site, beta testers are not likely to know how to do an FTP program. I suppose I could make a password protected folder on my web site, and get my web site developer to make the run-time downloadable or installable from the site. I don't know how to do this. Maybe she does. I've got A97 developer's edition, Wise Installer, and the Sagekey script for A97. But I don't think that the app can be converted back to A97. In any event, the total A97/Wise/Sagekey package runs to about 70MB IIRC. I could buy A2002 or A2003 if they've got a better deployment capability than they've had in the past. What are your recommendations, suggestions, thoughts? Thanks in advance, Rocky Smolin Beach Access Software -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com Thu Mar 4 12:07:28 2004 From: jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com (John W. Colby) Date: Thu, 4 Mar 2004 13:07:28 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] RE: Age of the List was (Drew - Age of the Archives?) In-Reply-To: Message-ID: I joined the list in July 1997. At that time it was hosted by MT group / David Scott. DatabaseAdvisors was of course formed to manage AccessD when David decided he'd had enough and wanted to shut the group down. John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Bryan Carbonnell Sent: Thursday, March 04, 2004 12:33 PM To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: [AccessD] RE: Age of the List was (Drew - Age of the Archives?) Well, actually AccessD, as a list has been around for more than 7 years, IIRC. It was originally hosted by David Scott at the MT Group. DatabaseAdvisors, Inc has only been around since 2001 I just had a quick look at the Internet archive and have come up with a reference from 1997 (http://web.archive.org/web/19971221192627/http://mtgroup.com/) but I'm sure it's been around for longer than that. Bryan Carbonnell bryan_carbonnell at cbc.ca >>> john at winhaven.net 04-Mar-04 11:51:06 AM >>> Not according to our website! I had thought I joined in May of 2000 but when I saw that I figured it must have been May of 2001. I could be wrong. The only way to verify it woul dbe backup tapes and BLA! -its bad enough when I have to use them :o) -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of William Hindman Sent: Thursday, March 04, 2004 10:28 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Drew - Age of the Archives? ...AccessD was alive and well long before 2001 :) William Hindman "My idea of an agreeable person is a person who agrees with me." Disraeli ----- Original Message ----- From: "John Bartow" To: "Access Developers discussion and problem solving" Sent: Thursday, March 04, 2004 10:51 AM Subject: RE: [AccessD] Drew - Age of the Archives? > I don't blame you, after the run of luck you've had! > > I'm leery every time I do a presentation. I don't mind speaking in front of > people but it seems something always goes wrong - no matter how prepared I > am. I've done presentations for conferences where the coordinator guaranteed > the equipment was what I asked for and when I show up they have projectors > that don't handle 1024x768 which is the only res. at which my laptop's video > looks good (640 cuts the text lines up). I had another conference where I > was setup 30 minutes early, everything worked fine, unplug my laptop and the > first presenter plugs his in, he goes on and finishes, I plug my laptop into > the projector and POOF my laptop's screen goes out. It took about 20 minutes > to get it all rearranged so that my partner could run the presentation from > the projected image rather than the laptop, while I talked about it. (we > were showing a new app. live of course.) Luckily there was a third presenter > that went on in our time slot and 500 people weren't just sitting there > getting irritated. Took a month to get the screen replaced too :o( > > John > > BTW AccessD as we know it was formed in 2001 so I guess I have it narrowed > down enough now :o) > > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of > DWUTKA at marlow.com > Sent: Wednesday, March 03, 2004 11:47 AM > To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com > Subject: RE: [AccessD] Drew - Age of the Archives? > > > I actually gave a presentation on the 'indexing' capabilities I built for > the archives last month. After my track record with major changes/updates > to the archives, I was just a little leary to give that presentation....go > figure! > > Drew > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of John Bartow > Sent: Wednesday, March 03, 2004 11:24 AM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: RE: [AccessD] Drew - Age of the Archives? > > > Drew, > Yes, it is an interesting timeline, I thought of a few of those things too! > :o) > > Thanks, > John > > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of > DWUTKA at marlow.com > Sent: Wednesday, March 03, 2004 10:47 AM > To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com > Subject: RE: [AccessD] Drew - Age of the Archives? > > > Hmmmm, let's work backwards. I know that the archives stopping archiving > this past August/September (2003), because that's when I separated from > Tammy. I know the archives started using the 'Memo Field Indexing' in April > of 2003, because that is when my apartment caught fire. I know I moved the > archives from Marlow to my home in early January of 2003, because my DSL > company went bankrupt and pulled the plug on their network then. > > I have no clue when I actually 'started' the archives, other then a wild > guess at about 6 months before I moved it home. So I would say July or > August of 2002. > > Drew (Interesting timeline, eh?) > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of John Bartow > Sent: Tuesday, March 02, 2004 9:00 PM > To: _DBA-Access > Subject: [AccessD] Drew - Age of the Archives? > > > Drew, > Someone recently asked me how long I have been on this list. The only point > of reference I could think of was about two years before I sent all my > archives to Drew! > > So, Do you know when you put the archives together on your site? > > John "My memory is 40 years ahead of it time (I have a like I'm over 80)" > Bartow > > > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From stephen at bondsoftware.co.nz Thu Mar 4 02:04:22 2004 From: stephen at bondsoftware.co.nz (Stephen Bond) Date: Thu, 04 Mar 2004 21:04:22 +1300 Subject: [AccessD] increasing backend Message-ID: <70F3D727890C784291D8433E9C418F298F6A@server.bondsoftware.co.nz> Pedro, only a few records added, but were lots of existing records *changed*? We found huge bloat even when adding just a few records but doing maintenance on many. I read somewhere (but can't remember where) that changing data in fields on a record causes MSAccess to 'rewrite' to a different physical location and delete the origianl record. This would make a 'change' equivalent to a 'delete' and 'add new'. Anyone else comment? Stephen Bond > -----Original Message----- > From: Pedro Janssen [mailto:pedro at plex.nl] > Sent: Thursday, 4 March 2004 11:35 a.m. > To: AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > Subject: [AccessD] increasing backend > > > Hello Group, > > how is it possible that a backend-database increases from 5 > to 17 Mb, when only a few records are added. After compiling > it was again 5 Mb. > > Pedro Janssen > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > From jwelz at hotmail.com Thu Mar 4 13:12:01 2004 From: jwelz at hotmail.com (Jürgen Welz) Date: Thu, 04 Mar 2004 12:12:01 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] Drew - Age of the Archives? Message-ID: My last presentation fell completely apart. I attended a provinical construction association annual banquet to accept an industry award for innovation for an application I had written for a former employer, now client, Gracom Masonry. The client gave me a typical 'secured' laptop (paranoid parent company security) a few days in advance to prepare a short demo. The plan was to demonstrate a typical cycle of the steps to enter a new bid request to takeoff to estimate to tender to award to management and some of the reporting capability. The client flew me to the city a day early so I could drop in one of their local offices and ensure all was well. I checked the banquet facility and the projector was running an identical make and model laptop when I dropped in. In fact, they had set up a rear projection system capable of running 1600 * 1200 resolution from the VGA connector complete with switch boxes to hookup multiple concurrent VGA connectors. I even had dial up access to the terminal server in case anything went south on the laptop. When it came down to the evening, it turned out there were video driver issues on the laptop that ONLY AFFECTED THE VGA OUT!!! The laptop would output to the external VGA port until the login screen closed so it was not a hardware issue. Typical company security prevents a means of transferring files to another machine (disabled USB and no floppy or CD Writer). Parent company called in an MSCE tech at the 11th hour to the presentation site but it was not possible to resolve the issues nor to migrate any of the functionality to another machine in the time remaining. I had done several training sessions in the past using their laptops in addition to some presentations at a local Access user group using the company laptops so I never bothered to check the VGA out against a monitor in a timely fashion. Next time I bring my own laptop as a spare, a backup Power Point demo on CD and a plan on how to present should the projector fail. The result was that a fabulous marketing opportunity turned to dust as I was reduced to telling a hall full of people about all the wonderful things the application could do when my plan was a quick and carefully planned demo/script of how fast and easy it was to get a job done. A technology award for an outfit that can't use technology? Ciao J?rgen Welz Edmonton, Alberta jwelz at hotmail.com > >LOL. Been there myself, several times. My biggest 'presentation' issue, >is >due to the situation I am in. I am half of an IT department, and the rest >of the company is relatively clueless when it comes to computers. So when >I >am presenting a new 'project', I will almost always get a 'This should be >easy, but how do I do.....'. What they ask for is usually WAY beyond the >scope of the project, but to them, it's just another magic button. > >Gotta love it! > >Drew _________________________________________________________________ The new MSN 8: advanced junk mail protection and 2 months FREE* http://join.msn.com/?page=dept/bcomm&pgmarket=en-ca&RU=http%3a%2f%2fjoin.msn.com%2f%3fpage%3dmisc%2fspecialoffers%26pgmarket%3den-ca From Jim.Hale at FleetPride.com Thu Mar 4 13:24:26 2004 From: Jim.Hale at FleetPride.com (Hale, Jim) Date: Thu, 4 Mar 2004 13:24:26 -0600 Subject: [AccessD] Drew - Age of the Archives? Message-ID: <6A6AA9DF57E4F046BDA1E273BDDB677201AAE4@corp-es01.fleetpride.com> That's okay, I remember Bill Gates giving a demonstration of Windows 3.1 to the Houston area league of PC users (circa 1991?) when Windows froze. Required the three finger salute to get it going again. :-) Jim Hale -----Original Message----- From: John Bartow [mailto:john at winhaven.net] Sent: Thursday, March 04, 2004 9:51 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] Drew - Age of the Archives? I don't blame you, after the run of luck you've had! I'm leery every time I do a presentation. I don't mind speaking in front of people but it seems something always goes wrong - no matter how prepared I am. I've done presentations for conferences where the coordinator guaranteed the equipment was what I asked for and when I show up they have projectors that don't handle 1024x768 which is the only res. at which my laptop's video looks good (640 cuts the text lines up). I had another conference where I was setup 30 minutes early, everything worked fine, unplug my laptop and the first presenter plugs his in, he goes on and finishes, I plug my laptop into the projector and POOF my laptop's screen goes out. It took about 20 minutes to get it all rearranged so that my partner could run the presentation from the projected image rather than the laptop, while I talked about it. (we were showing a new app. live of course.) Luckily there was a third presenter that went on in our time slot and 500 people weren't just sitting there getting irritated. Took a month to get the screen replaced too :o( John BTW AccessD as we know it was formed in 2001 so I guess I have it narrowed down enough now :o) -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of DWUTKA at marlow.com Sent: Wednesday, March 03, 2004 11:47 AM To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: RE: [AccessD] Drew - Age of the Archives? I actually gave a presentation on the 'indexing' capabilities I built for the archives last month. After my track record with major changes/updates to the archives, I was just a little leary to give that presentation....go figure! Drew -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of John Bartow Sent: Wednesday, March 03, 2004 11:24 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] Drew - Age of the Archives? Drew, Yes, it is an interesting timeline, I thought of a few of those things too! :o) Thanks, John -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of DWUTKA at marlow.com Sent: Wednesday, March 03, 2004 10:47 AM To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: RE: [AccessD] Drew - Age of the Archives? Hmmmm, let's work backwards. I know that the archives stopping archiving this past August/September (2003), because that's when I separated from Tammy. I know the archives started using the 'Memo Field Indexing' in April of 2003, because that is when my apartment caught fire. I know I moved the archives from Marlow to my home in early January of 2003, because my DSL company went bankrupt and pulled the plug on their network then. I have no clue when I actually 'started' the archives, other then a wild guess at about 6 months before I moved it home. So I would say July or August of 2002. Drew (Interesting timeline, eh?) -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of John Bartow Sent: Tuesday, March 02, 2004 9:00 PM To: _DBA-Access Subject: [AccessD] Drew - Age of the Archives? Drew, Someone recently asked me how long I have been on this list. The only point of reference I could think of was about two years before I sent all my archives to Drew! So, Do you know when you put the archives together on your site? John "My memory is 40 years ahead of it time (I have a like I'm over 80)" Bartow -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From wdhindman at bellsouth.net Thu Mar 4 13:27:51 2004 From: wdhindman at bellsouth.net (William Hindman) Date: Thu, 4 Mar 2004 14:27:51 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] RE: Age of the List was (Drew - Age of the Archives?) References: Message-ID: <004f01c4021e$c8e0b2e0$6101a8c0@dejpolsys> "DatabaseAdvisors, Inc has only been around since 2001" Bryan ...not so Bryan ...without going back into my own archives I know for a fact that dba-OT was formed immediately after the 2000 elections as a direct result of heavy OT traffic on AccessD :) William Hindman "My idea of an agreeable person is a person who agrees with me." Disraeli ----- Original Message ----- From: "Bryan Carbonnell" To: Sent: Thursday, March 04, 2004 12:33 PM Subject: [AccessD] RE: Age of the List was (Drew - Age of the Archives?) > Well, actually AccessD, as a list has been around for more than 7 years, > IIRC. It was originally hosted by David Scott at the MT Group. > > DatabaseAdvisors, Inc has only been around since 2001 > > I just had a quick look at the Internet archive and have come up with > a reference from 1997 > (http://web.archive.org/web/19971221192627/http://mtgroup.com/) but > I'm sure it's been around for longer than that. > > Bryan Carbonnell > bryan_carbonnell at cbc.ca > > >>> john at winhaven.net 04-Mar-04 11:51:06 AM >>> > Not according to our website! > > I had thought I joined in May of 2000 but when I saw that I figured it > must > have been May of 2001. I could be wrong. The only way to verify it woul > dbe > backup tapes and BLA! -its bad enough when I have to use them :o) > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of William > Hindman > Sent: Thursday, March 04, 2004 10:28 AM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: Re: [AccessD] Drew - Age of the Archives? > > > ...AccessD was alive and well long before 2001 :) > > William Hindman "My idea of an agreeable person is a person who agrees > with > me." Disraeli > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "John Bartow" > To: "Access Developers discussion and problem solving" > > Sent: Thursday, March 04, 2004 10:51 AM > Subject: RE: [AccessD] Drew - Age of the Archives? > > > > I don't blame you, after the run of luck you've had! > > > > I'm leery every time I do a presentation. I don't mind speaking in > front > of > > people but it seems something always goes wrong - no matter how > prepared I > > am. I've done presentations for conferences where the coordinator > guaranteed > > the equipment was what I asked for and when I show up they have > projectors > > that don't handle 1024x768 which is the only res. at which my > laptop's > video > > looks good (640 cuts the text lines up). I had another conference > where I > > was setup 30 minutes early, everything worked fine, unplug my laptop > and > the > > first presenter plugs his in, he goes on and finishes, I plug my > laptop > into > > the projector and POOF my laptop's screen goes out. It took about 20 > minutes > > to get it all rearranged so that my partner could run the > presentation > from > > the projected image rather than the laptop, while I talked about it. > (we > > were showing a new app. live of course.) Luckily there was a third > presenter > > that went on in our time slot and 500 people weren't just sitting > there > > getting irritated. Took a month to get the screen replaced too :o( > > > > John > > > > BTW AccessD as we know it was formed in 2001 so I guess I have it > narrowed > > down enough now :o) > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of > > DWUTKA at marlow.com > > Sent: Wednesday, March 03, 2004 11:47 AM > > To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com > > Subject: RE: [AccessD] Drew - Age of the Archives? > > > > > > I actually gave a presentation on the 'indexing' capabilities I built > for > > the archives last month. After my track record with major > changes/updates > > to the archives, I was just a little leary to give that > presentation....go > > figure! > > > > Drew > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of John > Bartow > > Sent: Wednesday, March 03, 2004 11:24 AM > > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > > Subject: RE: [AccessD] Drew - Age of the Archives? > > > > > > Drew, > > Yes, it is an interesting timeline, I thought of a few of those > things > too! > > :o) > > > > Thanks, > > John > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of > > DWUTKA at marlow.com > > Sent: Wednesday, March 03, 2004 10:47 AM > > To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com > > Subject: RE: [AccessD] Drew - Age of the Archives? > > > > > > Hmmmm, let's work backwards. I know that the archives stopping > archiving > > this past August/September (2003), because that's when I separated > from > > Tammy. I know the archives started using the 'Memo Field Indexing' > in > April > > of 2003, because that is when my apartment caught fire. I know I > moved > the > > archives from Marlow to my home in early January of 2003, because my > DSL > > company went bankrupt and pulled the plug on their network then. > > > > I have no clue when I actually 'started' the archives, other then a > wild > > guess at about 6 months before I moved it home. So I would say July > or > > August of 2002. > > > > Drew (Interesting timeline, eh?) > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of John > Bartow > > Sent: Tuesday, March 02, 2004 9:00 PM > > To: _DBA-Access > > Subject: [AccessD] Drew - Age of the Archives? > > > > > > Drew, > > Someone recently asked me how long I have been on this list. The > only > point > > of reference I could think of was about two years before I sent all > my > > archives to Drew! > > > > So, Do you know when you put the archives together on your site? > > > > John "My memory is 40 years ahead of it time (I have a like I'm over > 80)" > > Bartow > > > > > > -- > > _______________________________________________ > > AccessD mailing list > > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > -- > > _______________________________________________ > > AccessD mailing list > > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > > > > > -- > > _______________________________________________ > > AccessD mailing list > > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > -- > > _______________________________________________ > > AccessD mailing list > > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > > > > > -- > > _______________________________________________ > > AccessD mailing list > > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > From BBarabash at TappeConstruction.com Thu Mar 4 13:30:50 2004 From: BBarabash at TappeConstruction.com (Brett Barabash) Date: Thu, 4 Mar 2004 13:30:50 -0600 Subject: [AccessD] Drew - Age of the Archives? Message-ID: <426071E0B0A6D311B3C0006008B0AB23AFE3D2@TAPPEEXCH01> ...and history has a tendency of repeating itself. Remember the embarrasing 1998 Comdex incident? http://www.cnn.com/TECH/computing/9804/20/gates.comdex/ -----Original Message----- From: Hale, Jim [mailto:Jim.Hale at fleetpride.com] Sent: Thursday, March 04, 2004 1:24 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: [AccessD] Drew - Age of the Archives? That's okay, I remember Bill Gates giving a demonstration of Windows 3.1 to the Houston area league of PC users (circa 1991?) when Windows froze. Required the three finger salute to get it going again. :-) Jim Hale -----Original Message----- From: John Bartow [mailto:john at winhaven.net] Sent: Thursday, March 04, 2004 9:51 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] Drew - Age of the Archives? I don't blame you, after the run of luck you've had! I'm leery every time I do a presentation. I don't mind speaking in front of people but it seems something always goes wrong - no matter how prepared I am. I've done presentations for conferences where the coordinator guaranteed the equipment was what I asked for and when I show up they have projectors that don't handle 1024x768 which is the only res. at which my laptop's video looks good (640 cuts the text lines up). I had another conference where I was setup 30 minutes early, everything worked fine, unplug my laptop and the first presenter plugs his in, he goes on and finishes, I plug my laptop into the projector and POOF my laptop's screen goes out. It took about 20 minutes to get it all rearranged so that my partner could run the presentation from the projected image rather than the laptop, while I talked about it. (we were showing a new app. live of course.) Luckily there was a third presenter that went on in our time slot and 500 people weren't just sitting there getting irritated. Took a month to get the screen replaced too :o( John BTW AccessD as we know it was formed in 2001 so I guess I have it narrowed down enough now :o) -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of DWUTKA at marlow.com Sent: Wednesday, March 03, 2004 11:47 AM To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: RE: [AccessD] Drew - Age of the Archives? I actually gave a presentation on the 'indexing' capabilities I built for the archives last month. After my track record with major changes/updates to the archives, I was just a little leary to give that presentation....go figure! Drew -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of John Bartow Sent: Wednesday, March 03, 2004 11:24 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] Drew - Age of the Archives? Drew, Yes, it is an interesting timeline, I thought of a few of those things too! :o) Thanks, John -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of DWUTKA at marlow.com Sent: Wednesday, March 03, 2004 10:47 AM To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: RE: [AccessD] Drew - Age of the Archives? Hmmmm, let's work backwards. I know that the archives stopping archiving this past August/September (2003), because that's when I separated from Tammy. I know the archives started using the 'Memo Field Indexing' in April of 2003, because that is when my apartment caught fire. I know I moved the archives from Marlow to my home in early January of 2003, because my DSL company went bankrupt and pulled the plug on their network then. I have no clue when I actually 'started' the archives, other then a wild guess at about 6 months before I moved it home. So I would say July or August of 2002. Drew (Interesting timeline, eh?) -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of John Bartow Sent: Tuesday, March 02, 2004 9:00 PM To: _DBA-Access Subject: [AccessD] Drew - Age of the Archives? Drew, Someone recently asked me how long I have been on this list. The only point of reference I could think of was about two years before I sent all my archives to Drew! So, Do you know when you put the archives together on your site? John "My memory is 40 years ahead of it time (I have a like I'm over 80)" Bartow -------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- This email and any files transmitted with it are confidential and intended solely for the use of the individual or entity to whom they are addressed. If you have received this email in error please notify the originator of the message. This footer also confirms that this email message has been scanned for the presence of computer viruses. Any views expressed in this message are those of the individual sender, except where the sender specifies and with authority, states them to be the views of Tappe Construction Co. Scanning of this message and addition of this footer is performed by SurfControl E-mail Filter software in conjunction with virus detection software. From Bryan_Carbonnell at cbc.ca Thu Mar 4 13:37:47 2004 From: Bryan_Carbonnell at cbc.ca (Bryan Carbonnell) Date: Thu, 04 Mar 2004 14:37:47 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] RE: Age of the List was (Drew - Age of the Archives?) Message-ID: Mea Culpa. I was just going by John's post of what he found on DBA's site. Bryan >>> wdhindman at bellsouth.net 04-Mar-04 2:27:51 PM >>> "DatabaseAdvisors, Inc has only been around since 2001" Bryan ...not so Bryan ...without going back into my own archives I know for a fact that dba-OT was formed immediately after the 2000 elections as a direct result of heavy OT traffic on AccessD :) William Hindman "My idea of an agreeable person is a person who agrees with me." Disraeli From DWUTKA at marlow.com Thu Mar 4 14:05:35 2004 From: DWUTKA at marlow.com (DWUTKA at marlow.com) Date: Thu, 4 Mar 2004 14:05:35 -0600 Subject: [AccessD] How to Deal with Time Durations Message-ID: <2F8793082E00D4119A1700B0D0216BF80222793A@main2.marlow.com> I would record the date/time field, versus recording the duration. The duration is simply the difference between the start and end time, and will display properly in the table itself. The 'duration' would still be stored as a date/time (or a double...technically the same....). Drew -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Bryan Carbonnell Sent: Thursday, March 04, 2004 8:44 AM To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: [AccessD] How to Deal with Time Durations In a new app that I am creating, of which you will probably hear ALL about it over the next few weeks :), I have to keep track of event durations. Right now I have a field for the start time, and one for the duration. Both are Date/Time fields. The durations for the event can last from 1 second all the way up to many hours, and possibly even days. Should I actually be storing the start and end time and calculating the duration? The duration can be entered as either the actual duration or the actual end time. If you have done something like this, how have you handled it? Thanks, Bryan Carbonnell bryan_carbonnell at cbc.ca -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From john at winhaven.net Thu Mar 4 14:06:21 2004 From: john at winhaven.net (John Bartow) Date: Thu, 4 Mar 2004 14:06:21 -0600 Subject: [AccessD] RE: Age of the List was (Drew - Age of the Archives?) In-Reply-To: <004f01c4021e$c8e0b2e0$6101a8c0@dejpolsys> Message-ID: I remember when you all set up OT (I didn't join it then as I was actually "too" too busy). I don't remember any discussion about setting up DatabaseAdvisors, Inc as an entity though. John -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of William Hindman Sent: Thursday, March 04, 2004 1:28 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] RE: Age of the List was (Drew - Age of the Archives?) "DatabaseAdvisors, Inc has only been around since 2001" Bryan ...not so Bryan ...without going back into my own archives I know for a fact that dba-OT was formed immediately after the 2000 elections as a direct result of heavy OT traffic on AccessD :) William Hindman "My idea of an agreeable person is a person who agrees with me." Disraeli ----- Original Message ----- From: "Bryan Carbonnell" To: Sent: Thursday, March 04, 2004 12:33 PM Subject: [AccessD] RE: Age of the List was (Drew - Age of the Archives?) > Well, actually AccessD, as a list has been around for more than 7 years, > IIRC. It was originally hosted by David Scott at the MT Group. > > DatabaseAdvisors, Inc has only been around since 2001 > > I just had a quick look at the Internet archive and have come up with > a reference from 1997 > (http://web.archive.org/web/19971221192627/http://mtgroup.com/) but > I'm sure it's been around for longer than that. > > Bryan Carbonnell > bryan_carbonnell at cbc.ca > > >>> john at winhaven.net 04-Mar-04 11:51:06 AM >>> > Not according to our website! > > I had thought I joined in May of 2000 but when I saw that I figured it > must > have been May of 2001. I could be wrong. The only way to verify it woul > dbe > backup tapes and BLA! -its bad enough when I have to use them :o) > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of William > Hindman > Sent: Thursday, March 04, 2004 10:28 AM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: Re: [AccessD] Drew - Age of the Archives? > > > ...AccessD was alive and well long before 2001 :) > > William Hindman "My idea of an agreeable person is a person who agrees > with > me." Disraeli > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "John Bartow" > To: "Access Developers discussion and problem solving" > > Sent: Thursday, March 04, 2004 10:51 AM > Subject: RE: [AccessD] Drew - Age of the Archives? > > > > I don't blame you, after the run of luck you've had! > > > > I'm leery every time I do a presentation. I don't mind speaking in > front > of > > people but it seems something always goes wrong - no matter how > prepared I > > am. I've done presentations for conferences where the coordinator > guaranteed > > the equipment was what I asked for and when I show up they have > projectors > > that don't handle 1024x768 which is the only res. at which my > laptop's > video > > looks good (640 cuts the text lines up). I had another conference > where I > > was setup 30 minutes early, everything worked fine, unplug my laptop > and > the > > first presenter plugs his in, he goes on and finishes, I plug my > laptop > into > > the projector and POOF my laptop's screen goes out. It took about 20 > minutes > > to get it all rearranged so that my partner could run the > presentation > from > > the projected image rather than the laptop, while I talked about it. > (we > > were showing a new app. live of course.) Luckily there was a third > presenter > > that went on in our time slot and 500 people weren't just sitting > there > > getting irritated. Took a month to get the screen replaced too :o( > > > > John > > > > BTW AccessD as we know it was formed in 2001 so I guess I have it > narrowed > > down enough now :o) > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of > > DWUTKA at marlow.com > > Sent: Wednesday, March 03, 2004 11:47 AM > > To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com > > Subject: RE: [AccessD] Drew - Age of the Archives? > > > > > > I actually gave a presentation on the 'indexing' capabilities I built > for > > the archives last month. After my track record with major > changes/updates > > to the archives, I was just a little leary to give that > presentation....go > > figure! > > > > Drew > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of John > Bartow > > Sent: Wednesday, March 03, 2004 11:24 AM > > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > > Subject: RE: [AccessD] Drew - Age of the Archives? > > > > > > Drew, > > Yes, it is an interesting timeline, I thought of a few of those > things > too! > > :o) > > > > Thanks, > > John > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of > > DWUTKA at marlow.com > > Sent: Wednesday, March 03, 2004 10:47 AM > > To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com > > Subject: RE: [AccessD] Drew - Age of the Archives? > > > > > > Hmmmm, let's work backwards. I know that the archives stopping > archiving > > this past August/September (2003), because that's when I separated > from > > Tammy. I know the archives started using the 'Memo Field Indexing' > in > April > > of 2003, because that is when my apartment caught fire. I know I > moved > the > > archives from Marlow to my home in early January of 2003, because my > DSL > > company went bankrupt and pulled the plug on their network then. > > > > I have no clue when I actually 'started' the archives, other then a > wild > > guess at about 6 months before I moved it home. So I would say July > or > > August of 2002. > > > > Drew (Interesting timeline, eh?) > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of John > Bartow > > Sent: Tuesday, March 02, 2004 9:00 PM > > To: _DBA-Access > > Subject: [AccessD] Drew - Age of the Archives? > > > > > > Drew, > > Someone recently asked me how long I have been on this list. The > only > point > > of reference I could think of was about two years before I sent all > my > > archives to Drew! > > > > So, Do you know when you put the archives together on your site? > > > > John "My memory is 40 years ahead of it time (I have a like I'm over > 80)" > > Bartow > > > > > > -- > > _______________________________________________ > > AccessD mailing list > > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > -- > > _______________________________________________ > > AccessD mailing list > > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > > > > > -- > > _______________________________________________ > > AccessD mailing list > > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > -- > > _______________________________________________ > > AccessD mailing list > > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > > > > > -- > > _______________________________________________ > > AccessD mailing list > > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From DWUTKA at marlow.com Thu Mar 4 14:10:37 2004 From: DWUTKA at marlow.com (DWUTKA at marlow.com) Date: Thu, 4 Mar 2004 14:10:37 -0600 Subject: [AccessD] Drew - Age of the Archives? Message-ID: <2F8793082E00D4119A1700B0D0216BF80222793B@main2.marlow.com> Like the infamous Windows 98 unveiling. That was a streaming video off of the net, and during the presentation, they hooked a USB printer (or scanner, don't remember which), and Windows 98 blue screened on them! LOL Drew -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Hale, Jim Sent: Thursday, March 04, 2004 1:24 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: [AccessD] Drew - Age of the Archives? That's okay, I remember Bill Gates giving a demonstration of Windows 3.1 to the Houston area league of PC users (circa 1991?) when Windows froze. Required the three finger salute to get it going again. :-) Jim Hale -----Original Message----- From: John Bartow [mailto:john at winhaven.net] Sent: Thursday, March 04, 2004 9:51 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] Drew - Age of the Archives? I don't blame you, after the run of luck you've had! I'm leery every time I do a presentation. I don't mind speaking in front of people but it seems something always goes wrong - no matter how prepared I am. I've done presentations for conferences where the coordinator guaranteed the equipment was what I asked for and when I show up they have projectors that don't handle 1024x768 which is the only res. at which my laptop's video looks good (640 cuts the text lines up). I had another conference where I was setup 30 minutes early, everything worked fine, unplug my laptop and the first presenter plugs his in, he goes on and finishes, I plug my laptop into the projector and POOF my laptop's screen goes out. It took about 20 minutes to get it all rearranged so that my partner could run the presentation from the projected image rather than the laptop, while I talked about it. (we were showing a new app. live of course.) Luckily there was a third presenter that went on in our time slot and 500 people weren't just sitting there getting irritated. Took a month to get the screen replaced too :o( John BTW AccessD as we know it was formed in 2001 so I guess I have it narrowed down enough now :o) -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of DWUTKA at marlow.com Sent: Wednesday, March 03, 2004 11:47 AM To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: RE: [AccessD] Drew - Age of the Archives? I actually gave a presentation on the 'indexing' capabilities I built for the archives last month. After my track record with major changes/updates to the archives, I was just a little leary to give that presentation....go figure! Drew -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of John Bartow Sent: Wednesday, March 03, 2004 11:24 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] Drew - Age of the Archives? Drew, Yes, it is an interesting timeline, I thought of a few of those things too! :o) Thanks, John -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of DWUTKA at marlow.com Sent: Wednesday, March 03, 2004 10:47 AM To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: RE: [AccessD] Drew - Age of the Archives? Hmmmm, let's work backwards. I know that the archives stopping archiving this past August/September (2003), because that's when I separated from Tammy. I know the archives started using the 'Memo Field Indexing' in April of 2003, because that is when my apartment caught fire. I know I moved the archives from Marlow to my home in early January of 2003, because my DSL company went bankrupt and pulled the plug on their network then. I have no clue when I actually 'started' the archives, other then a wild guess at about 6 months before I moved it home. So I would say July or August of 2002. Drew (Interesting timeline, eh?) -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of John Bartow Sent: Tuesday, March 02, 2004 9:00 PM To: _DBA-Access Subject: [AccessD] Drew - Age of the Archives? Drew, Someone recently asked me how long I have been on this list. The only point of reference I could think of was about two years before I sent all my archives to Drew! So, Do you know when you put the archives together on your site? John "My memory is 40 years ahead of it time (I have a like I'm over 80)" Bartow -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From bchacc at san.rr.com Thu Mar 4 14:24:25 2004 From: bchacc at san.rr.com (Rocky Smolin - Beach Access Software) Date: Thu, 4 Mar 2004 12:24:25 -0800 Subject: [AccessD] Deployment References: <001001c40212$56329940$8500a8c0@CX615377a> Message-ID: <01c401c40226$b007f1e0$6801a8c0@HAL9002> Doug: Have you ever used the XP deployment itself? Rocky ----- Original Message ----- From: "Doug Murphy" To: "'Access Developers discussion and problem solving'" Sent: Thursday, March 04, 2004 9:58 AM Subject: RE: [AccessD] Deployment > Hi Rocky, > > I have done several install packages using XP Deveoper, Wise and Sagekey > and the package is usually a little less than 60 Meg. If your users > have high speed connections this isn't too bad to download. Could be > painfull over a dial up connection. > > Doug > > Douglas Murphy > Murphy's Creativity > (619) 334-5121 > doug at murphyscreativity.com > www.murphyscreativity.com > > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Rocky Smolin > - Beach Access Software > Sent: Wednesday, March 03, 2004 7:56 AM > To: AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > Subject: [AccessD] Deployment > > > Dear List: > > I've got an app I'm developing for the consumer market and we're in beta > testing now. It's in A2K so all the betas have to have Access. > > Eventually it will have to be packaged as a run-time. But at that point > it will be shrink-wrapped. > > In the short term we could expand our beta testing universe with a > run-time. So I'm trying to figure out the best way to do this. > > The problem AFAIK with the run-times is their size. Right now we can > email the mde to a beta tester and it's about 3-4MB. If I put up a > run-time on my web site, beta testers are not likely to know how to do > an FTP program. > > I suppose I could make a password protected folder on my web site, and > get my web site developer to make the run-time downloadable or > installable from the site. I don't know how to do this. Maybe she > does. > > I've got A97 developer's edition, Wise Installer, and the Sagekey script > for A97. But I don't think that the app can be converted back to A97. > In any event, the total A97/Wise/Sagekey package runs to about 70MB > IIRC. > > I could buy A2002 or A2003 if they've got a better deployment capability > than they've had in the past. > > What are your recommendations, suggestions, thoughts? > > Thanks in advance, > > Rocky Smolin > Beach Access Software > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > From HollisVJ at pgdp.usec.com Thu Mar 4 14:25:23 2004 From: HollisVJ at pgdp.usec.com (Hollis,Virginia) Date: Thu, 04 Mar 2004 14:25:23 -0600 Subject: [AccessD] Add All to List Message-ID: <618EB4D6DDCDD3119B0A00508B6FD37A0CB0D236@cntexchange.pgdp.usec.com> That took care of the type error. I still can't seem to get it to show all records. When I select ALL, it goes to a new record. Va. -----Original Message----- From: Charlotte Foust [mailto:cfoust at infostatsystems.com] Sent: Thursday, March 04, 2004 11:02 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] Add All to List You have to match datatypes in the union. If NCSAID is numeric, then you have to use a number, like -1 for instance, instead of the "*". If NCSANo is numeric, you need to use something like CStr(tbl_NCSA.NCSANo) in order to accommodate the "All" value. Charlotte Foust -----Original Message----- From: Hollis,Virginia [mailto:HollisVJ at pgdp.usec.com] Sent: Thursday, March 04, 2004 5:29 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: [AccessD] Add All to List Still struggling... On the recordsource for the combo box I put: SELECT tbl_NCSA.NCSAID, tbl_NCSA.NCSANo FROM tbl_NCSA; UNION SELECT "*", "All" FROM tbl_NCSA; This gets me the word ALL in the list. Then on the AfterUpdate of cboNCSANo, I put (this gives me a type mismatch when I select All): If Me![cboNCSANo] = "All" Then DoCmd.ShowAllRecords Else DoCmd.ApplyFilter , "[NCSAID] = " & str(Me![cboNCSANo]) End If Va. -----Original Message----- From: William Hindman [mailto:wdhindman at bellsouth.net] Sent: Wednesday, March 03, 2004 4:07 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Add All to List ...the easiest way is to "if" the combo's after update event :) After Update Event cboCustomer If Me![cboCustomer] = "" Then DoCmd ShowAllRecords Else DoCmd ApplyFilter , "[State] = Forms![cboCustomer]![cboCustomer]" End If William Hindman "My idea of an agreeable person is a person who agrees with me." Disraeli ----- Original Message ----- From: "Hollis,Virginia" To: "'Access Developers discussion and problem solving'" Sent: Wednesday, March 03, 2004 4:29 PM Subject: RE: [AccessD] Add All to List > I don't know what I am doing wrong.... The all shows at the top of the list, > but All the records do not show on the subform. The combobox is still > showing the first record when it opens and the subform is filtered for that > record. > > What makes the All part of "ALL" in the combo box work? > > Virginia > > -----Original Message----- > From: William Hindman [mailto:wdhindman at bellsouth.net] > Sent: Wednesday, March 03, 2004 8:09 AM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: Re: [AccessD] Add All to List > > > Virginia > > ...use a UNION SELECT in the combo record source to add an ALL. > > ...example: > > SELECT DISTINCTROW Customers.Company, Customers.[Customer Number] FROM > Customers UNION SELECT "","" FROM Customers ORDER BY Customers.Company; > > William Hindman "My idea of an agreeable person is a person who agrees with > me." Disraeli > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Hollis,Virginia" > To: > Sent: Wednesday, March 03, 2004 8:45 AM > Subject: [AccessD] Add All to List > > > > How do you add All to List? This form contains 2 combo boxes on a > > main > form. > > Selecting data shows data on a subform for the related combo box choices. > > > > I need to either have an All in the combo boxes or when the form > > opens, I > > would like them to be blank. > > > > I tried this code in the On Open of the main form, but it still > > opens to > > the first record with entries in both combo boxes. > > > > With Me > > .cboNCSANo = "" > > .cboProcedure = "" > > End With > > > > Virginia > > -- > > _______________________________________________ > > AccessD mailing list > > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com Thu Mar 4 14:35:12 2004 From: jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com (John W. Colby) Date: Thu, 4 Mar 2004 15:35:12 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] RE: Age of the List was (Drew - Age of the Archives?) In-Reply-To: Message-ID: We set up DatabaseAdvisors as an entity before the actual list was established. John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of John Bartow Sent: Thursday, March 04, 2004 3:06 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] RE: Age of the List was (Drew - Age of the Archives?) I remember when you all set up OT (I didn't join it then as I was actually "too" too busy). I don't remember any discussion about setting up DatabaseAdvisors, Inc as an entity though. John -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of William Hindman Sent: Thursday, March 04, 2004 1:28 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] RE: Age of the List was (Drew - Age of the Archives?) "DatabaseAdvisors, Inc has only been around since 2001" Bryan ...not so Bryan ...without going back into my own archives I know for a fact that dba-OT was formed immediately after the 2000 elections as a direct result of heavy OT traffic on AccessD :) William Hindman "My idea of an agreeable person is a person who agrees with me." Disraeli ----- Original Message ----- From: "Bryan Carbonnell" To: Sent: Thursday, March 04, 2004 12:33 PM Subject: [AccessD] RE: Age of the List was (Drew - Age of the Archives?) > Well, actually AccessD, as a list has been around for more than 7 years, > IIRC. It was originally hosted by David Scott at the MT Group. > > DatabaseAdvisors, Inc has only been around since 2001 > > I just had a quick look at the Internet archive and have come up with > a reference from 1997 > (http://web.archive.org/web/19971221192627/http://mtgroup.com/) but > I'm sure it's been around for longer than that. > > Bryan Carbonnell > bryan_carbonnell at cbc.ca > > >>> john at winhaven.net 04-Mar-04 11:51:06 AM >>> > Not according to our website! > > I had thought I joined in May of 2000 but when I saw that I figured it > must > have been May of 2001. I could be wrong. The only way to verify it woul > dbe > backup tapes and BLA! -its bad enough when I have to use them :o) > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of William > Hindman > Sent: Thursday, March 04, 2004 10:28 AM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: Re: [AccessD] Drew - Age of the Archives? > > > ...AccessD was alive and well long before 2001 :) > > William Hindman "My idea of an agreeable person is a person who agrees > with > me." Disraeli > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "John Bartow" > To: "Access Developers discussion and problem solving" > > Sent: Thursday, March 04, 2004 10:51 AM > Subject: RE: [AccessD] Drew - Age of the Archives? > > > > I don't blame you, after the run of luck you've had! > > > > I'm leery every time I do a presentation. I don't mind speaking in > front > of > > people but it seems something always goes wrong - no matter how > prepared I > > am. I've done presentations for conferences where the coordinator > guaranteed > > the equipment was what I asked for and when I show up they have > projectors > > that don't handle 1024x768 which is the only res. at which my > laptop's > video > > looks good (640 cuts the text lines up). I had another conference > where I > > was setup 30 minutes early, everything worked fine, unplug my laptop > and > the > > first presenter plugs his in, he goes on and finishes, I plug my > laptop > into > > the projector and POOF my laptop's screen goes out. It took about 20 > minutes > > to get it all rearranged so that my partner could run the > presentation > from > > the projected image rather than the laptop, while I talked about it. > (we > > were showing a new app. live of course.) Luckily there was a third > presenter > > that went on in our time slot and 500 people weren't just sitting > there > > getting irritated. Took a month to get the screen replaced too :o( > > > > John > > > > BTW AccessD as we know it was formed in 2001 so I guess I have it > narrowed > > down enough now :o) > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of > > DWUTKA at marlow.com > > Sent: Wednesday, March 03, 2004 11:47 AM > > To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com > > Subject: RE: [AccessD] Drew - Age of the Archives? > > > > > > I actually gave a presentation on the 'indexing' capabilities I built > for > > the archives last month. After my track record with major > changes/updates > > to the archives, I was just a little leary to give that > presentation....go > > figure! > > > > Drew > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of John > Bartow > > Sent: Wednesday, March 03, 2004 11:24 AM > > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > > Subject: RE: [AccessD] Drew - Age of the Archives? > > > > > > Drew, > > Yes, it is an interesting timeline, I thought of a few of those > things > too! > > :o) > > > > Thanks, > > John > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of > > DWUTKA at marlow.com > > Sent: Wednesday, March 03, 2004 10:47 AM > > To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com > > Subject: RE: [AccessD] Drew - Age of the Archives? > > > > > > Hmmmm, let's work backwards. I know that the archives stopping > archiving > > this past August/September (2003), because that's when I separated > from > > Tammy. I know the archives started using the 'Memo Field Indexing' > in > April > > of 2003, because that is when my apartment caught fire. I know I > moved > the > > archives from Marlow to my home in early January of 2003, because my > DSL > > company went bankrupt and pulled the plug on their network then. > > > > I have no clue when I actually 'started' the archives, other then a > wild > > guess at about 6 months before I moved it home. So I would say July > or > > August of 2002. > > > > Drew (Interesting timeline, eh?) > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of John > Bartow > > Sent: Tuesday, March 02, 2004 9:00 PM > > To: _DBA-Access > > Subject: [AccessD] Drew - Age of the Archives? > > > > > > Drew, > > Someone recently asked me how long I have been on this list. The > only > point > > of reference I could think of was about two years before I sent all > my > > archives to Drew! > > > > So, Do you know when you put the archives together on your site? > > > > John "My memory is 40 years ahead of it time (I have a like I'm over > 80)" > > Bartow > > > > > > -- > > _______________________________________________ > > AccessD mailing list > > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > -- > > _______________________________________________ > > AccessD mailing list > > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > > > > > -- > > _______________________________________________ > > AccessD mailing list > > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > -- > > _______________________________________________ > > AccessD mailing list > > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > > > > > -- > > _______________________________________________ > > AccessD mailing list > > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From john at winhaven.net Thu Mar 4 15:12:55 2004 From: john at winhaven.net (John Bartow) Date: Thu, 4 Mar 2004 15:12:55 -0600 Subject: [AccessD] RE: Age of the List was (Drew - Age of the Archives?) In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Ah, JC - some of my emails must get through... -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of John W. Colby Sent: Thursday, March 04, 2004 2:35 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] RE: Age of the List was (Drew - Age of the Archives?) We set up DatabaseAdvisors as an entity before the actual list was established. John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of John Bartow Sent: Thursday, March 04, 2004 3:06 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] RE: Age of the List was (Drew - Age of the Archives?) I remember when you all set up OT (I didn't join it then as I was actually "too" too busy). I don't remember any discussion about setting up DatabaseAdvisors, Inc as an entity though. John -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of William Hindman Sent: Thursday, March 04, 2004 1:28 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] RE: Age of the List was (Drew - Age of the Archives?) "DatabaseAdvisors, Inc has only been around since 2001" Bryan ...not so Bryan ...without going back into my own archives I know for a fact that dba-OT was formed immediately after the 2000 elections as a direct result of heavy OT traffic on AccessD :) William Hindman "My idea of an agreeable person is a person who agrees with me." Disraeli ----- Original Message ----- From: "Bryan Carbonnell" To: Sent: Thursday, March 04, 2004 12:33 PM Subject: [AccessD] RE: Age of the List was (Drew - Age of the Archives?) > Well, actually AccessD, as a list has been around for more than 7 years, > IIRC. It was originally hosted by David Scott at the MT Group. > > DatabaseAdvisors, Inc has only been around since 2001 > > I just had a quick look at the Internet archive and have come up with > a reference from 1997 > (http://web.archive.org/web/19971221192627/http://mtgroup.com/) but > I'm sure it's been around for longer than that. > > Bryan Carbonnell > bryan_carbonnell at cbc.ca > > >>> john at winhaven.net 04-Mar-04 11:51:06 AM >>> > Not according to our website! > > I had thought I joined in May of 2000 but when I saw that I figured it > must > have been May of 2001. I could be wrong. The only way to verify it woul > dbe > backup tapes and BLA! -its bad enough when I have to use them :o) > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of William > Hindman > Sent: Thursday, March 04, 2004 10:28 AM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: Re: [AccessD] Drew - Age of the Archives? > > > ...AccessD was alive and well long before 2001 :) > > William Hindman "My idea of an agreeable person is a person who agrees > with > me." Disraeli > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "John Bartow" > To: "Access Developers discussion and problem solving" > > Sent: Thursday, March 04, 2004 10:51 AM > Subject: RE: [AccessD] Drew - Age of the Archives? > > > > I don't blame you, after the run of luck you've had! > > > > I'm leery every time I do a presentation. I don't mind speaking in > front > of > > people but it seems something always goes wrong - no matter how > prepared I > > am. I've done presentations for conferences where the coordinator > guaranteed > > the equipment was what I asked for and when I show up they have > projectors > > that don't handle 1024x768 which is the only res. at which my > laptop's > video > > looks good (640 cuts the text lines up). I had another conference > where I > > was setup 30 minutes early, everything worked fine, unplug my laptop > and > the > > first presenter plugs his in, he goes on and finishes, I plug my > laptop > into > > the projector and POOF my laptop's screen goes out. It took about 20 > minutes > > to get it all rearranged so that my partner could run the > presentation > from > > the projected image rather than the laptop, while I talked about it. > (we > > were showing a new app. live of course.) Luckily there was a third > presenter > > that went on in our time slot and 500 people weren't just sitting > there > > getting irritated. Took a month to get the screen replaced too :o( > > > > John > > > > BTW AccessD as we know it was formed in 2001 so I guess I have it > narrowed > > down enough now :o) > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of > > DWUTKA at marlow.com > > Sent: Wednesday, March 03, 2004 11:47 AM > > To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com > > Subject: RE: [AccessD] Drew - Age of the Archives? > > > > > > I actually gave a presentation on the 'indexing' capabilities I built > for > > the archives last month. After my track record with major > changes/updates > > to the archives, I was just a little leary to give that > presentation....go > > figure! > > > > Drew > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of John > Bartow > > Sent: Wednesday, March 03, 2004 11:24 AM > > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > > Subject: RE: [AccessD] Drew - Age of the Archives? > > > > > > Drew, > > Yes, it is an interesting timeline, I thought of a few of those > things > too! > > :o) > > > > Thanks, > > John > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of > > DWUTKA at marlow.com > > Sent: Wednesday, March 03, 2004 10:47 AM > > To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com > > Subject: RE: [AccessD] Drew - Age of the Archives? > > > > > > Hmmmm, let's work backwards. I know that the archives stopping > archiving > > this past August/September (2003), because that's when I separated > from > > Tammy. I know the archives started using the 'Memo Field Indexing' > in > April > > of 2003, because that is when my apartment caught fire. I know I > moved > the > > archives from Marlow to my home in early January of 2003, because my > DSL > > company went bankrupt and pulled the plug on their network then. > > > > I have no clue when I actually 'started' the archives, other then a > wild > > guess at about 6 months before I moved it home. So I would say July > or > > August of 2002. > > > > Drew (Interesting timeline, eh?) > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of John > Bartow > > Sent: Tuesday, March 02, 2004 9:00 PM > > To: _DBA-Access > > Subject: [AccessD] Drew - Age of the Archives? > > > > > > Drew, > > Someone recently asked me how long I have been on this list. The > only > point > > of reference I could think of was about two years before I sent all > my > > archives to Drew! > > > > So, Do you know when you put the archives together on your site? > > > > John "My memory is 40 years ahead of it time (I have a like I'm over > 80)" > > Bartow > > > > > > -- > > _______________________________________________ > > AccessD mailing list > > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > -- > > _______________________________________________ > > AccessD mailing list > > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > > > > > -- > > _______________________________________________ > > AccessD mailing list > > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > -- > > _______________________________________________ > > AccessD mailing list > > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > > > > > -- > > _______________________________________________ > > AccessD mailing list > > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From Oleg_123 at xuppa.com Thu Mar 4 15:16:41 2004 From: Oleg_123 at xuppa.com (Oleg_123 at xuppa.com) Date: Thu, 4 Mar 2004 16:16:41 -0500 (EST) Subject: [AccessD] IIF syntaxis In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <29275.63.251.87.214.1078435001.squirrel@heck.bay9.com> hey group What would be the correct syntasis on IIF part in the query below -- I'd like to for record NewDateOpened to equal value from the column [MS Date Opened] if DEPT is in ("MSS","MID","SW","OW"), and to equal [MID_Date_Opened] in other cases. (IIF( [Ron Data mid].DEPT in ("MSS","MID","SW","OW") ,[Ron Data mid].[MS Date Opened]) ELSE [MID_Date_Opened] AS NewDateOpened SELECT TOP 5 [Ron Data mid].DEPT, [Ron Data mid].MID_Date_Opened, [Ron Data mid].[MS Date Opened], MFRD.Disposition, [Ron Data mid].ID (IIF( [Ron Data mid].DEPT in ("MSS","MID","SW","OW") ,[Ron Data mid].[MS Date Opened]) ELSE [MID_Date_Opened] AS NewDateOpened FROM [Ron Data mid] INNER JOIN MFRD ON [Ron Data mid].ID = MFRD.ID; ----------------------------------------- Get Breaking News from CNN, ABC, NBC, CBS Now. http://www.xuppa.com/news/?link=webmail From rl_stewart at highstream.net Thu Mar 4 15:33:09 2004 From: rl_stewart at highstream.net (Robert L. Stewart) Date: Thu, 04 Mar 2004 15:33:09 -0600 Subject: [AccessD] Re: Add All to List In-Reply-To: <200403042113.i24LDdM21398@databaseadvisors.com> Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20040304153108.02ad21f0@pop3.highstream.net> Virginia, What are you trying to do? If it is to display all records, then you will have to remove the filtering mechanism when "All" is selected. This is generally used for reporting where you could for example select all to get all categories of labor expended on a project. Not as a filtering mechanism for a form. Robert At 03:13 PM 3/4/2004 -0600, you wrote: >Date: Thu, 04 Mar 2004 14:25:23 -0600 >From: "Hollis,Virginia" >Subject: RE: [AccessD] Add All to List >To: "'Access Developers discussion and problem solving'" > >Message-ID: > <618EB4D6DDCDD3119B0A00508B6FD37A0CB0D236 at cntexchange.pgdp.usec.com> >Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 > >That took care of the type error. > >I still can't seem to get it to show all records. When I select ALL, it goes >to a new record. > >Va. From martyconnelly at shaw.ca Thu Mar 4 16:04:31 2004 From: martyconnelly at shaw.ca (MartyConnelly) Date: Thu, 04 Mar 2004 14:04:31 -0800 Subject: [AccessD] Frameworks, what are they? References: Message-ID: <4047A7EF.1090308@shaw.ca> For those above Mere Mortals (current Canadian Political joke) Another view of framework definitions What Is the Zachman Framework for Enterprise Architecture? essentially a 6 by 6 matrix enterprise development checklist http://www.ftponline.com/ea/magazine/spring/online/druby/ or http://www.enterprise-architect.net John W. Colby wrote: >That would be it. Mere mortals. > >John W. Colby >www.ColbyConsulting.com > >-----Original Message----- >From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com >[mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Jim Dettman >Sent: Thursday, March 04, 2004 12:00 PM >To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving >Subject: RE: [AccessD] Frameworks, what are they? > > >John, > ><and bought something called Framework for normal people or something like >that. >> > > You might be thinking me "Mere Mortals" > ><don't seem to exist for Access. I have thought about trying to develop and >sell one but reality always intervenes.>> > > Yes I would agree and I've been thinking of why there are not any for >Access. It's certainly been around long enough. > >I've thought of a couple things: > >1. Most Access apps are "developed" by non-professionals, so they have a >tendency to use what's in front of them. >2. Because of #1, most of the apps developed are fairly simple. >3. For a professional developer, Access already provides significant tools >and features to use for development (i.e. Main/Subforms). > ><< I have thought about trying to develop and >sell one but reality always intervenes.>> > > I hear you there. During the A2 release, I really started digging into >the MDB structure with the intent of offering database utilities. Took a >lot of time and I had to pay the bills. So I gave up on it. I figured that >by the time I did it, the JET team would either come out with utilities or >take care of the corruption issue. > > Now I could kick myself in the butt for not sticking with it. > >Jim >(315) 699-3443 >jimdettman at earthlink.net > >-----Original Message----- >From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com >[mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of John W. Colby >Sent: Thursday, March 04, 2004 10:26 AM >To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving >Subject: RE: [AccessD] Frameworks, what are they? > > >Back when I was supervising that VP project I mentioned at lunch, we found >and bought something called Framework for normal people or something like >that. Basically starting with a purchased framework is good... they just >don't seem to exist for Access. I have thought about trying to develop and >sell one but reality always intervenes. > >John W. Colby >www.ColbyConsulting.com > >-----Original Message----- >From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com >[mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Jim Dettman >Sent: Thursday, March 04, 2004 9:58 AM >To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving >Subject: RE: [AccessD] Frameworks, what are they? > > >John, > > I hate to mention VFP on the Access list, but in terms of Frameworks it >has many and the features that they offer are listed here: > >http://fox.wikis.com/wc.dll?Wiki~FrameworkFeatureChart~VFP > > Items compared are things like Developer Tools, End User Features, etc. >Quite a bit of info there on frameworks in general. > > If you wanted to look at one more specifically, I use VMP, which has a >downloadable help file that you can look at. You can find that here: > >http://www.visionds.com/vmpsite/ > > Look under VMP 2004, Download VMPHELP.CHM > >Jim Dettman >President, >Online Computer Services of WNY, Inc. >(315) 699-3443 >jimdettman at earthlink.net > >-----Original Message----- >From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com >[mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of John W. Colby >Sent: Wednesday, March 03, 2004 8:44 PM >To: AccessD >Subject: [AccessD] Frameworks, what are they? > > >Robert, > >The only example I have of a running framework is my own. Unfortunately it >is so complex at this point it would be undecipherable to anyone but me I'm >afraid. You have heard me discuss the various functionalities I have placed >into my framework. In order to understand my stuff you would have to wade >through all that stuff I have mentioned. I am certainly willing to post it >somewhere with an application that uses it so that you can see how I do >things but I'm truly uncertain whether a discussion could address my >framework without getting pretty deep pretty fast. > >A framework is really nothing more than a skeleton upon which you hang an >application. As you need more functionality, if it is generic and useful to >the next app you add it to the framework. In this day and age, you really >need to be thinking classes however since they allow you to set up >containers for related functionality. > >I am going to cc the list however. We have many developers who have >developed their own framework. I have never seen anyone else's so I can't >vouch for how complex they are now how conceptually similar to what I do, >but if we address the list, perhaps we can get a discussion going on this >stuff. > >John W. Colby >www.ColbyConsulting.com > >-----Original Message----- >From: Robert Gracie [mailto:Robert at servicexp.com] >Sent: Wednesday, March 03, 2004 8:18 PM >To: jcolby at colbyconsulting.com >Subject: I have a question > > >John, > I have really appreciated the help over the last few months in regards to >"DEEP" programming, your examples have been very helpful. I'm intrigued with >"framework" idea however I have no idea where to get started. My question >is; do you have any examples of a running "framework", or any books that >explain how to set this sort of thing up? > >Thanks Again!! >Robert Gracie > > >-- >_______________________________________________ >AccessD mailing list >AccessD at databaseadvisors.com >http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd >Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > >-- >_______________________________________________ >AccessD mailing list >AccessD at databaseadvisors.com >http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd >Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > >-- >_______________________________________________ >AccessD mailing list >AccessD at databaseadvisors.com >http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd >Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > >-- >_______________________________________________ >AccessD mailing list >AccessD at databaseadvisors.com >http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd >Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > > -- Marty Connelly Victoria, B.C. Canada From d.dick at uws.edu.au Thu Mar 4 16:22:43 2004 From: d.dick at uws.edu.au (Darren DICK) Date: Fri, 5 Mar 2004 09:22:43 +1100 Subject: [AccessD] Form In Background References: <618EB4D6DDCDD3119B0A00508B6FD37A0CB0D226@cntexchange.pgdp.usec.com> <002d01c401a7$45398420$02d15dd4@ali> Message-ID: <006e01c40237$36e683b0$48619a89@DDICK> Ayisha Try something like DoCmd.OpenForm "frmMyLinkedForm " ,acNormal ,,,,acHidden if you open the form from a button or try Me.Visible = false in the OnLoad event of the form in question If you do either of these make sure you have a way to make the form visible again Eg on some other form have a button that runs something like Forms!frmMyLinkedForm.visible = true HTH Darren ----- Original Message ----- From: "Ayisha" To: "Access Developers discussion and problem solving" Sent: Thursday, March 04, 2004 4:03 PM Subject: [AccessD] Form In Background > Is there any way that i can hide a linked form in background???? > > Ayisha > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From liz at symphonyinfo.com Thu Mar 4 17:06:31 2004 From: liz at symphonyinfo.com (Liz Doering) Date: Thu, 4 Mar 2004 17:06:31 -0600 Subject: [AccessD] Database Un-splitter: New 'Feature' from Microsoft In-Reply-To: <29275.63.251.87.214.1078435001.squirrel@heck.bay9.com> Message-ID: I ran smack up against a new 'feature' of Access 2003 today. I have a client who, for reasons of his own, keeps his BE in Access 97. With the purchase of new machines, some of his users have gotten to Access 2003, while others are still using 97. I made a few changes on site last week, using a 2003 machine for development and blithely saving my changes to a 97 version when I was done. Without saying a word, 2003 made a copy of all the BE tables in the new 97 FE. So now my 97 user is working on a copy, disconnected from his server. Of course it took him 3 days' worth of work to notice. I'll be spending Monday cleaning up this fiasco. And several more days, wondering why somebody didn't put a little warning on this process! The one good point: he's gotten over his need to keep 97. Liz Doering Symphony Information Services liz at symphonyinfo.com www.symphonyinfo.com 763-391-7400 From ssharkins at bellsouth.net Thu Mar 4 17:20:36 2004 From: ssharkins at bellsouth.net (Susan Harkins) Date: Thu, 4 Mar 2004 18:20:36 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Database Un-splitter: New 'Feature' from Microsoft In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <20040304232034.EZLN1860.imf24aec.mail.bellsouth.net@SUSANONE> 2003 does let you work with a "local" copy of a linked table -- are you sure someone didn't just choose the wrong option? Susan H. I ran smack up against a new 'feature' of Access 2003 today. I have a client who, for reasons of his own, keeps his BE in Access 97. With the purchase of new machines, some of his users have gotten to Access 2003, while others are still using 97. I made a few changes on site last week, using a 2003 machine for development and blithely saving my changes to a 97 version when I was done. Without saying a word, 2003 made a copy of all the BE tables in the new 97 FE. So now my 97 user is working on a copy, disconnected from his server. Of course it took him 3 days' worth of work to notice. I'll be spending Monday cleaning up this fiasco. And several more days, wondering why somebody didn't put a little warning on this process! The one good point: he's gotten over his need to keep 97. Liz Doering Symphony Information Services liz at symphonyinfo.com www.symphonyinfo.com 763-391-7400 -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From stuart at lexacorp.com.pg Thu Mar 4 17:27:37 2004 From: stuart at lexacorp.com.pg (Stuart McLachlan) Date: Fri, 05 Mar 2004 09:27:37 +1000 Subject: [AccessD] Add All to List In-Reply-To: <618EB4D6DDCDD3119B0A00508B6FD37A0CB0D22C@cntexchange.pgdp.usec.com> Message-ID: <40484809.31981.52C24C6@localhost> On 4 Mar 2004 at 7:28, Hollis,Virginia wrote: > Still struggling... > > On the recordsource for the combo box I put: > SELECT tbl_NCSA.NCSAID, tbl_NCSA.NCSANo FROM tbl_NCSA; UNION SELECT "*", > "All" FROM tbl_NCSA; > This gets me the word ALL in the list. > > Then on the AfterUpdate of cboNCSANo, I put (this gives me a type mismatch > when I select All): > If Me![cboNCSANo] = "All" Then > DoCmd.ShowAllRecords > Else > DoCmd.ApplyFilter , "[NCSAID] = " & str(Me![cboNCSANo]) > End If > Looks like NCSAID is numeric. In which case you can't use a character "*" in the second part of the Union. Use something like -1 instead. -- Lexacorp Ltd http://www.lexacorp.com.pg Information Technology Consultancy, Software Development,System Support. From clh at christopherhawkins.com Thu Mar 4 18:31:22 2004 From: clh at christopherhawkins.com (Christopher Hawkins) Date: Thu, 4 Mar 2004 17:31:22 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] RE: Age of the List was (Drew - Age of the Archives?) Message-ID: <292560-2200435503122230@christopherhawkins.com> Hmmm. You guys HAD to go and pose the questions, didn't you? ;) 1999? 2000? I'm not sure, because I've unsubscribed and re-subscribed two or three times. -Christopher- ---- Original Message ---- From: jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com, Subject: RE: [AccessD] RE: Age of the List was (Drew - Age of the Archives?) Date: Thu, 4 Mar 2004 13:07:28 -0500 >I joined the list in July 1997. At that time it was hosted by MT >group / >David Scott. DatabaseAdvisors was of course formed to manage >AccessD when >David decided he'd had enough and wanted to shut the group down. > >John W. Colby >www.ColbyConsulting.com > >-----Original Message----- >From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com >[mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Bryan >Carbonnell >Sent: Thursday, March 04, 2004 12:33 PM >To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com >Subject: [AccessD] RE: Age of the List was (Drew - Age of the >Archives?) > > >Well, actually AccessD, as a list has been around for more than 7 >years, >IIRC. It was originally hosted by David Scott at the MT Group. > >DatabaseAdvisors, Inc has only been around since 2001 > >I just had a quick look at the Internet archive and have come up >with >a reference from 1997 >(http://web.archive.org/web/19971221192627/http://mtgroup.com/) but >I'm sure it's been around for longer than that. > >Bryan Carbonnell >bryan_carbonnell at cbc.ca > >>>> john at winhaven.net 04-Mar-04 11:51:06 AM >>> >Not according to our website! > >I had thought I joined in May of 2000 but when I saw that I figured >it >must >have been May of 2001. I could be wrong. The only way to verify it >woul >dbe >backup tapes and BLA! -its bad enough when I have to use them :o) > >-----Original Message----- >From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com >[mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of William >Hindman >Sent: Thursday, March 04, 2004 10:28 AM >To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving >Subject: Re: [AccessD] Drew - Age of the Archives? > > >...AccessD was alive and well long before 2001 :) > >William Hindman "My idea of an agreeable person is a person who >agrees >with >me." Disraeli > >----- Original Message ----- >From: "John Bartow" >To: "Access Developers discussion and problem solving" > >Sent: Thursday, March 04, 2004 10:51 AM >Subject: RE: [AccessD] Drew - Age of the Archives? > > >> I don't blame you, after the run of luck you've had! >> >> I'm leery every time I do a presentation. I don't mind speaking in >front >of >> people but it seems something always goes wrong - no matter how >prepared I >> am. I've done presentations for conferences where the coordinator >guaranteed >> the equipment was what I asked for and when I show up they have >projectors >> that don't handle 1024x768 which is the only res. at which my >laptop's >video >> looks good (640 cuts the text lines up). I had another conference >where I >> was setup 30 minutes early, everything worked fine, unplug my >laptop >and >the >> first presenter plugs his in, he goes on and finishes, I plug my >laptop >into >> the projector and POOF my laptop's screen goes out. It took about >20 >minutes >> to get it all rearranged so that my partner could run the >presentation >from >> the projected image rather than the laptop, while I talked about >it. >(we >> were showing a new app. live of course.) Luckily there was a third >presenter >> that went on in our time slot and 500 people weren't just sitting >there >> getting irritated. Took a month to get the screen replaced too :o( >> >> John >> >> BTW AccessD as we know it was formed in 2001 so I guess I have it >narrowed >> down enough now :o) >> >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com >> [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of >> DWUTKA at marlow.com >> Sent: Wednesday, March 03, 2004 11:47 AM >> To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com >> Subject: RE: [AccessD] Drew - Age of the Archives? >> >> >> I actually gave a presentation on the 'indexing' capabilities I >built >for >> the archives last month. After my track record with major >changes/updates >> to the archives, I was just a little leary to give that >presentation....go >> figure! >> >> Drew >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com >> [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of John >Bartow >> Sent: Wednesday, March 03, 2004 11:24 AM >> To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving >> Subject: RE: [AccessD] Drew - Age of the Archives? >> >> >> Drew, >> Yes, it is an interesting timeline, I thought of a few of those >things >too! >> :o) >> >> Thanks, >> John >> >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com >> [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of >> DWUTKA at marlow.com >> Sent: Wednesday, March 03, 2004 10:47 AM >> To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com >> Subject: RE: [AccessD] Drew - Age of the Archives? >> >> >> Hmmmm, let's work backwards. I know that the archives stopping >archiving >> this past August/September (2003), because that's when I separated >from >> Tammy. I know the archives started using the 'Memo Field Indexing' >in >April >> of 2003, because that is when my apartment caught fire. I know I >moved >the >> archives from Marlow to my home in early January of 2003, because >my >DSL >> company went bankrupt and pulled the plug on their network then. >> >> I have no clue when I actually 'started' the archives, other then a >wild >> guess at about 6 months before I moved it home. So I would say >July >or >> August of 2002. >> >> Drew (Interesting timeline, eh?) >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com >> [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of John >Bartow >> Sent: Tuesday, March 02, 2004 9:00 PM >> To: _DBA-Access >> Subject: [AccessD] Drew - Age of the Archives? >> >> >> Drew, >> Someone recently asked me how long I have been on this list. The >only >point >> of reference I could think of was about two years before I sent all >my >> archives to Drew! >> >> So, Do you know when you put the archives together on your site? >> >> John "My memory is 40 years ahead of it time (I have a like I'm >over >80)" >> Bartow >> >> >> -- >> _______________________________________________ >> AccessD mailing list >> AccessD at databaseadvisors.com >> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd >> Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com >> -- >> _______________________________________________ >> AccessD mailing list >> AccessD at databaseadvisors.com >> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd >> Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com >> >> >> >> -- >> _______________________________________________ >> AccessD mailing list >> AccessD at databaseadvisors.com >> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd >> Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com >> -- >> _______________________________________________ >> AccessD mailing list >> AccessD at databaseadvisors.com >> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd >> Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com >> >> >> >> -- >> _______________________________________________ >> AccessD mailing list >> AccessD at databaseadvisors.com >> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd >> Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > >-- >_______________________________________________ >AccessD mailing list >AccessD at databaseadvisors.com >http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd >Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > >-- >_______________________________________________ >AccessD mailing list >AccessD at databaseadvisors.com >http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd >Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com >-- >_______________________________________________ >AccessD mailing list >AccessD at databaseadvisors.com >http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd >Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > >-- >_______________________________________________ >AccessD mailing list >AccessD at databaseadvisors.com >http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd >Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > From rfv at entelix.com Thu Mar 4 18:42:31 2004 From: rfv at entelix.com (rfv at entelix.com) Date: Thu, 4 Mar 2004 18:42:31 -0600 Subject: [AccessD] Pocket PC Message-ID: <200403050043.i250hhM10421@databaseadvisors.com> Hi, I have a MS Access XP app which i need to synchronize with a Pocket PC. I have no idea how i can establish that. Is there some software out there to design simple forms on a Pocket PC y synchroinze it with Access? Thanks to everybody. Rudolf F. Vanek From jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com Thu Mar 4 18:48:43 2004 From: jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com (John W. Colby) Date: Thu, 4 Mar 2004 19:48:43 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] OT - Hit counter for web pages Message-ID: Does anyone have a hit counter that I can just cut and paste code into my web page? Shows my ignorance I know but I need something that will do that for me. I need a hit counter for each page, visible on the page itself. John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com From bruce_bruen at mlc.com.au Thu Mar 4 19:10:42 2004 From: bruce_bruen at mlc.com.au (bruce_bruen at mlc.com.au) Date: Fri, 5 Mar 2004 12:10:42 +1100 Subject: [AccessD] OT - Hit counter for web pages Message-ID: Google returns over 2million. From wdhindman at bellsouth.net Thu Mar 4 19:50:28 2004 From: wdhindman at bellsouth.net (William Hindman) Date: Thu, 4 Mar 2004 20:50:28 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] OT - Hit counter for web pages References: Message-ID: <005001c40254$3c92d260$6101a8c0@dejpolsys> http://www.digits.com/create.html ...free pnp counter ...hth :) William Hindman "My idea of an agreeable person is a person who agrees with me." Disraeli ----- Original Message ----- From: "John W. Colby" To: "AccessD" ; "DBA - Tech" Sent: Thursday, March 04, 2004 7:48 PM Subject: [AccessD] OT - Hit counter for web pages > Does anyone have a hit counter that I can just cut and paste code into my > web page? Shows my ignorance I know but I need something that will do that > for me. I need a hit counter for each page, visible on the page itself. > > John W. Colby > www.ColbyConsulting.com > > > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > From accessd at shaw.ca Thu Mar 4 20:08:08 2004 From: accessd at shaw.ca (Jim Lawrence (AccessD)) Date: Thu, 04 Mar 2004 18:08:08 -0800 Subject: [AccessD] Deployment In-Reply-To: <006901c40137$fc4cb0d0$6801a8c0@HAL9002> Message-ID: Hi Rocky: IF you have a windows server handy for orchestrating the deployment you could try something as follows: 1. Create a sub-directory, off your ftproot directory, for each person or group of persons you wish to send the file to. 2. Create a user name and/or group for all who you wish to deliver the package to. Give appropriate access rights. (username/password) 3. In your IIS, create a virtual ftp account, using/pointing the name(s) to the ftproot dir. Make sure the virtual ftp name is the same as the actual directory name. (If the physical directory is name .\MyProduct the virtual ftp directory should be named MyProduct). Attach the new account(s) through the virtual ftp process as prompted. If you are only giving download rights, set the virtual directory to Read-Only. 4. Send each group or single user(s), with your requesting email a line as follow: ftp://MyFTPVirtualAccount:theTopSecretPassword at MySiteURLorAddress/MyProductF ileName.zip Pressing on the line above will automatically start a download process. HTH Jim -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Rocky Smolin - Beach Access Software Sent: Wednesday, March 03, 2004 7:56 AM To: AccessD at databaseadvisors.com Subject: [AccessD] Deployment Dear List: I've got an app I'm developing for the consumer market and we're in beta testing now. It's in A2K so all the betas have to have Access. Eventually it will have to be packaged as a run-time. But at that point it will be shrink-wrapped. In the short term we could expand our beta testing universe with a run-time. So I'm trying to figure out the best way to do this. The problem AFAIK with the run-times is their size. Right now we can email the mde to a beta tester and it's about 3-4MB. If I put up a run-time on my web site, beta testers are not likely to know how to do an FTP program. I suppose I could make a password protected folder on my web site, and get my web site developer to make the run-time downloadable or installable from the site. I don't know how to do this. Maybe she does. I've got A97 developer's edition, Wise Installer, and the Sagekey script for A97. But I don't think that the app can be converted back to A97. In any event, the total A97/Wise/Sagekey package runs to about 70MB IIRC. I could buy A2002 or A2003 if they've got a better deployment capability than they've had in the past. What are your recommendations, suggestions, thoughts? Thanks in advance, Rocky Smolin Beach Access Software -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From accessd at shaw.ca Thu Mar 4 20:08:14 2004 From: accessd at shaw.ca (Jim Lawrence (AccessD)) Date: Thu, 04 Mar 2004 18:08:14 -0800 Subject: [AccessD] Archives - no scroll bar In-Reply-To: <2F8793082E00D4119A1700B0D0216BF802227927@main2.marlow.com> Message-ID: Hi Drew: I will take close look...but never had any problems specifically; but things have been moved around and something may have been over-looked... Keep you posted. Jim -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of DWUTKA at marlow.com Sent: Wednesday, March 03, 2004 8:53 AM To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: RE: [AccessD] Archives - no scroll bar Okay, we need to ask Jim to look at his code, that is sending you to the Archives. He is probably using the open statement, and not implicitly including the scrollbars argument. I've seen that do funny things before, where one browser will work fine, and another goes goofy. (Even same type of browser...it just depends on the settings in the browser). Drew -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Bobby Heid Sent: Wednesday, March 03, 2004 8:15 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: [AccessD] Archives - no scroll bar Works correctly when I go directly there. Thanks, Bobby -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of DWUTKA at marlow.com Sent: Tuesday, March 02, 2004 6:20 PM To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: RE: [AccessD] Archives - no scroll bar Bobby, try going directly to the searchable archives. http://www.wolfwares.com/AccessD Do your search there. If you still have no scroll bars, let me know. If you do have them, then we need to let Jim Lawrence know. He may have used a script, that is opening my site in a new window, that doesn't have a flag set for scrollbars. Drew -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Bobby Heid Sent: Tuesday, March 02, 2004 1:48 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: [AccessD] Archives - no scroll bar Hi Bryan, I went to http://www.databaseadvisors.com and clicked on the archive link on the left side of the screen. I entered my search term at: http://www.databaseadvisors.com/archive/archive.htm I then entered my search term and clicked on the little "Go" button. This takes me to the AccessD Archives with a howling wolf in the upper left hand corner. Still no scrollbars this time either. Thanks, Bobby -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Bryan Carbonnell Sent: Tuesday, March 02, 2004 1:32 PM To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: RE: [AccessD] Archives - no scroll bar Not on databaseadvisors.com either. The archives there are not searchable yet. Bobby, where did you search from? Bryan Carbonnell bryan_carbonnell at cbc.ca >>> DWUTKA at marlow.com 02-Mar-04 1:22:23 PM >>> Not on the archives on my site. Just checked, and the scroll bars were there. Drew -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Bobby Heid Sent: Tuesday, March 02, 2004 7:52 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: [AccessD] Archives - no scroll bar Hey all, I was searching the archives for something and it had a lot of hits. But since there was no scroll bar, I had to press the tab key to move to each entry. I could not page down or use the mouse wheel either. This is in IE 6.0.28, windows 2k. Is this by design? Thanks, Bobby -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From accessd at shaw.ca Thu Mar 4 20:08:11 2004 From: accessd at shaw.ca (Jim Lawrence (AccessD)) Date: Thu, 04 Mar 2004 18:08:11 -0800 Subject: [AccessD] Drew - Age of the Archives? In-Reply-To: <2F8793082E00D4119A1700B0D0216BF802227923@main2.marlow.com> Message-ID: OT Hi Drew: You should write a book. What great material. Jim -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of DWUTKA at marlow.com Sent: Wednesday, March 03, 2004 8:47 AM To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: RE: [AccessD] Drew - Age of the Archives? Hmmmm, let's work backwards. I know that the archives stopping archiving this past August/September (2003), because that's when I separated from Tammy. I know the archives started using the 'Memo Field Indexing' in April of 2003, because that is when my apartment caught fire. I know I moved the archives from Marlow to my home in early January of 2003, because my DSL company went bankrupt and pulled the plug on their network then. I have no clue when I actually 'started' the archives, other then a wild guess at about 6 months before I moved it home. So I would say July or August of 2002. Drew (Interesting timeline, eh?) -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of John Bartow Sent: Tuesday, March 02, 2004 9:00 PM To: _DBA-Access Subject: [AccessD] Drew - Age of the Archives? Drew, Someone recently asked me how long I have been on this list. The only point of reference I could think of was about two years before I sent all my archives to Drew! So, Do you know when you put the archives together on your site? John "My memory is 40 years ahead of it time (I have a like I'm over 80)" Bartow -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From stuart at lexacorp.com.pg Thu Mar 4 20:59:54 2004 From: stuart at lexacorp.com.pg (Stuart McLachlan) Date: Fri, 05 Mar 2004 12:59:54 +1000 Subject: [AccessD] Pocket PC In-Reply-To: <200403050043.i250hhM10421@databaseadvisors.com> Message-ID: <404879CA.2047.5EE7B52@localhost> On 4 Mar 2004 at 18:42, rfv at entelix.com wrote: > Hi, > I have a MS Access XP app which i need to synchronize with a Pocket PC. > I have no idea how i can establish that. Is there some software out there to > design simple forms on a Pocket PC y synchroinze it with Access? > Thanks to everybody. > Rudolf F. Vanek > Take a look at: http://members.aol.com/Doanc/dbce.html or http://www.pocketpccity.com/software/pocketpc/Pocket-Database-Viewer- Plus-Access-2004-2-16-ce-pocketpc.html (watch from wrap) -- Lexacorp Ltd http://www.lexacorp.com.pg Information Technology Consultancy, Software Development,System Support. From shait at mindspring.com Thu Mar 4 21:36:31 2004 From: shait at mindspring.com (Stephen Hait) Date: Thu, 4 Mar 2004 22:36:31 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] OT - Hit counter for web pages In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <4047AF6F.24623.2685976@localhost> > Does anyone have a hit counter that I can just cut and paste code > into my web page? Shows my ignorance I know but I need something > that will do that for me. I need a hit counter for each page, > visible on the page itself. > > John W. Colby Just curious - why do you need a hit counter on every page of your web site? For your information? For the benefit of your visitors? Something else? Depending on your goals, there may be other alternatives. Regards, Stephen From jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com Thu Mar 4 21:46:26 2004 From: jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com (John W. Colby) Date: Thu, 4 Mar 2004 22:46:26 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] OT - Hit counter for web pages In-Reply-To: <4047AF6F.24623.2685976@localhost> Message-ID: So that I can see which pages are visited and how often. John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Stephen Hait Sent: Thursday, March 04, 2004 10:37 PM To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: Re: [AccessD] OT - Hit counter for web pages > Does anyone have a hit counter that I can just cut and paste code > into my web page? Shows my ignorance I know but I need something > that will do that for me. I need a hit counter for each page, > visible on the page itself. > > John W. Colby Just curious - why do you need a hit counter on every page of your web site? For your information? For the benefit of your visitors? Something else? Depending on your goals, there may be other alternatives. Regards, Stephen -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com Thu Mar 4 21:48:09 2004 From: jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com (John W. Colby) Date: Thu, 4 Mar 2004 22:48:09 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Building up a framework Message-ID: I am preparing a series of articles for Many-to-Many on building a framework. I have a very basic framework started with the clsFW class, dclsFrm and dclsTextBox, as well as Sysvars and a couple of service classes, ZIP and Unzip. I will throw in a few more like some encryption classes. AFAICT this much is functioning, I can load a form, the form scanner finds all text boxes and loads a class for each, the SysVars function etc. Many to Many only publishes every 2 months or so. A series of articles will take 6 months to a year to get out. There is going to be a LOT of code, and some pretty in-depth discussions of collections, Classes / setup, teardown and debugging, Withevents, service classes and all the other stuff that goes into my framework. The end result will be a fully functioning if still rather basic application framework. My question to the group is, should I hold a discussion of the framework, how it is built, why I do this stuff and so forth on this list, or take it off to another list for only those interested? John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com From markamatte at hotmail.com Thu Mar 4 20:51:41 2004 From: markamatte at hotmail.com (Mark A Matte) Date: Fri, 05 Mar 2004 02:51:41 +0000 Subject: [AccessD] Export to Mutiple Excel Sheets Message-ID: Hello All, I need to build an export/import function into an A97 db...I want to export/import 2 query results...1 to each sheet in a new excel workbook. Any suggestions/directions to head? Thanks, Mark A. Matte _________________________________________________________________ Fast. Reliable. Get MSN 9 Dial-up - 3 months for the price of 1! (Limited-time Offer) http://click.atdmt.com/AVE/go/onm00200361ave/direct/01/ From stuart at lexacorp.com.pg Thu Mar 4 22:06:52 2004 From: stuart at lexacorp.com.pg (Stuart McLachlan) Date: Fri, 05 Mar 2004 14:06:52 +1000 Subject: [AccessD] OT - Hit counter for web pages In-Reply-To: References: <4047AF6F.24623.2685976@localhost> Message-ID: <4048897C.12682.62BCD52@localhost> On 4 Mar 2004 at 22:46, John W. Colby wrote: > So that I can see which pages are visited and how often. > If you want to use it to analyse your site traffic, you need a bit more than a page hit-counter. Depending on how your site is hosted and what OS the server uses, you may find Webalizer a good option. http://www.mrunix.net/webalizer/ My ISP runs a *nix box and provides Webalizer logging. Take a look at http://www.lexacorp.com.pg/logs to see the sort of info it provides -- Lexacorp Ltd http://www.lexacorp.com.pg Information Technology Consultancy, Software Development,System Support. From Oleg_123 at xuppa.com Thu Mar 4 22:20:37 2004 From: Oleg_123 at xuppa.com (Oleg_123 at xuppa.com) Date: Thu, 4 Mar 2004 23:20:37 -0500 (EST) Subject: [AccessD] Export to Mutiple Excel Sheets In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <3049.24.187.36.171.1078460437.squirrel@heck.bay9.com> Mark, I thought that its possible to specify sheets in export macro; is it so ? > Hello All, > > I need to build an export/import function into an A97 db...I want to > export/import 2 query results...1 to each sheet in a new excel workbook. > Any suggestions/directions to head? > > Thanks, > > Mark A. Matte > > _________________________________________________________________ > Fast. Reliable. Get MSN 9 Dial-up - 3 months for the price of 1! > (Limited-time Offer) > http://click.atdmt.com/AVE/go/onm00200361ave/direct/01/ > > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com ----------------------------------------- Get Breaking News from CNN, ABC, NBC, CBS Now. http://www.xuppa.com/news/?link=webmail From jwelz at hotmail.com Thu Mar 4 23:45:53 2004 From: jwelz at hotmail.com (Jürgen Welz) Date: Thu, 04 Mar 2004 22:45:53 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] Export to Mutiple Excel Sheets Message-ID: Although DoCmd.TransferSpreadsheet will create a sheet for each named query or table that you export to a file at a target path, my predisposition to keep it simple and fast is circumscribed by constraints of reliability, error management, data validation and format control that dictate Excel automation. If you're just dumping a bunch of pure text and integers into a sheet, no problem. If you've got strings like '02E234', Excel will arbitrarily assume that it is a number in exponential notation and I've had that kind of issue bite me from time to time in the past. Using automation, you can insert sheets in a particular order, set column widths, row heights, sorts, filters, do conditional formatting, name ranges, set titles, headers, protection .... My export/imort needs have never been met by the docmd methods, but if all I needed was a portable emailable snapshot of predictably transferable data, I would consider those methods. Ciao J?rgen Welz Edmonton, Alberta jwelz at hotmail.com >From: >Reply-To: Access Developers discussion and problem >solving >To: >Subject: Re: [AccessD] Export to Mutiple Excel Sheets >Date: Thu, 4 Mar 2004 23:20:37 -0500 (EST) >MIME-Version: 1.0 >Received: from mc2-f12.hotmail.com ([65.54.190.19]) by mc2-s17.hotmail.com >with Microsoft SMTPSVC(5.0.2195.6824); Thu, 4 Mar 2004 20:22:01 -0800 >Received: from databaseadvisors.com ([209.135.140.44]) by >mc2-f12.hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC(5.0.2195.6824); Thu, 4 Mar 2004 >20:21:05 -0800 >Received: from databaseadvisors.com (databaseadvisors.com >[209.135.140.44])by databaseadvisors.com (8.11.6/8.11.6) with ESMTP id >i254KaM02761;Thu, 4 Mar 2004 22:20:36 -0600 >Received: from heck.bay9.com ([66.28.60.200])by databaseadvisors.com >(8.11.6/8.11.6) with ESMTP id i254KUM02705for >; Thu, 4 Mar 2004 22:20:31 -0600 >Received: from xuppa.com (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1])by >heck.bay9.com (Postfix) with SMTP id CCBDA5B500for >;Thu, 4 Mar 2004 23:20:37 -0500 (EST) >Received: from 24.187.36.171 (proxying for unknown)(SquirrelMail >authenticated user Oleg_123)by heck.bay9.com with HTTP; Thu, 4 Mar 2004 >23:20:37 -0500 (EST) >X-Message-Info: jl7Vrt/mfspXc7/cLcma3MAwjiq6mK2F >Message-ID: <3049.24.187.36.171.1078460437.squirrel at heck.bay9.com> >In-Reply-To: >References: >X-Mailer: SquirrelMail (version 1.2.10) >X-BeenThere: accessd at databaseadvisors.com >X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.4 >Precedence: list >List-Id: Access Developers discussion and problem >solving >List-Help: >List-Post: >List-Subscribe: >, >List-Archive: >List-Unsubscribe: >, >Errors-To: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com >Return-Path: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com >X-OriginalArrivalTime: 05 Mar 2004 04:21:05.0359 (UTC) >FILETIME=[46AA15F0:01C40269] > >Mark, > >I thought that its possible to specify sheets in export macro; is it so ? > > > Hello All, > > > > I need to build an export/import function into an A97 db...I want to > > export/import 2 query results...1 to each sheet in a new excel workbook. > > Any suggestions/directions to head? > > > > Thanks, > > > > Mark A. Matte > > > > _________________________________________________________________ > > Fast. Reliable. Get MSN 9 Dial-up - 3 months for the price of 1! > > (Limited-time Offer) > > http://click.atdmt.com/AVE/go/onm00200361ave/direct/01/ > > > > -- > > _______________________________________________ > > AccessD mailing list > > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > >----------------------------------------- >Get Breaking News from CNN, ABC, NBC, CBS Now. >http://www.xuppa.com/news/?link=webmail > > >-- >_______________________________________________ >AccessD mailing list >AccessD at databaseadvisors.com >http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd >Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com _________________________________________________________________ MSN Premium: Up to 11 personalized e-mail addresses and 2 months FREE* http://join.msn.com/?pgmarket=en-ca&page=byoa/prem&xAPID=1994&DI=1034&SU=http://hotmail.com/enca&HL=Market_MSNIS_Taglines From joconnell at indy.rr.com Fri Mar 5 00:04:52 2004 From: joconnell at indy.rr.com (Joseph O'Connell) Date: Fri, 5 Mar 2004 01:04:52 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] OT - Hit counter for web pages Message-ID: <0b3401c40277$e6d810a0$6701a8c0@joe> John, Have you checked with your hosting company? Most commercial hosting sites offer a Web Trends report. The complete report will provide you with more information than you will be able to use! In addition to hit counts, a few of the other interesting things are the amount of time users spent on each page, the "route" that they took through your site, top entry and exit pages, user browser and geographic information, bandwith utilized, etc. This report can be generated for any time frame (daily, weekly monthly). Joe O'Connell -----Original Message----- From: John W. Colby To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Date: Thursday, March 04, 2004 10:48 PM Subject: RE: [AccessD] OT - Hit counter for web pages |So that I can see which pages are visited and how often. | |John W. Colby |www.ColbyConsulting.com | |-----Original Message----- |From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com |[mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Stephen Hait |Sent: Thursday, March 04, 2004 10:37 PM |To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com |Subject: Re: [AccessD] OT - Hit counter for web pages | | |> Does anyone have a hit counter that I can just cut and paste code |> into my web page? Shows my ignorance I know but I need something |> that will do that for me. I need a hit counter for each page, |> visible on the page itself. |> |> John W. Colby | |Just curious - why do you need a hit counter on every page of |your web site? For your information? For the benefit of your |visitors? Something else? Depending on your goals, there may |be other alternatives. | |Regards, |Stephen |-- |_______________________________________________ |AccessD mailing list |AccessD at databaseadvisors.com |http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd |Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com | | | |-- |_______________________________________________ |AccessD mailing list |AccessD at databaseadvisors.com |http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd |Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From accessd at shaw.ca Fri Mar 5 00:50:42 2004 From: accessd at shaw.ca (Jim Lawrence (AccessD)) Date: Thu, 04 Mar 2004 22:50:42 -0800 Subject: [AccessD] Drew - Age of the Archives? In-Reply-To: <2F8793082E00D4119A1700B0D0216BF802227938@main2.marlow.com> Message-ID: Hi Drew: I fully sympathize...been there down that. My theory/method of doing a presentation is to: 1. Never use a machine that you have not used before. 2. Have someone else test your software, before going to the client's site, because as the designer you are too close to the application and will not see the obvious. 3. If demo-ing software, run through a full scenario, plan ever step and never never deviate from the script...no matter how the client asks. Anything not tested will crash, but only when first showing a client. OT Totally off topic: Went to a client's site to give a talk and demo. On the way to the conference room took the opportunity to smell the tiger lilies, in the reception area. After an hour long presentation, that when better than expected, took a break and while in the washroom notice that pollen from the flowers was all over my face and I looked like the loser in a bad fight. Washed up went back to the meeting but now avoid Tiger Lilies as well as garlic before seeing clients. Jim -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of DWUTKA at marlow.com Sent: Thursday, March 04, 2004 9:35 AM To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: RE: [AccessD] Drew - Age of the Archives? LOL. Been there myself, several times. My biggest 'presentation' issue, is due to the situation I am in. I am half of an IT department, and the rest of the company is relatively clueless when it comes to computers. So when I am presenting a new 'project', I will almost always get a 'This should be easy, but how do I do.....'. What they ask for is usually WAY beyond the scope of the project, but to them, it's just another magic button. Gotta love it! Drew -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of John Bartow Sent: Thursday, March 04, 2004 9:51 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] Drew - Age of the Archives? I don't blame you, after the run of luck you've had! I'm leery every time I do a presentation. I don't mind speaking in front of people but it seems something always goes wrong - no matter how prepared I am. I've done presentations for conferences where the coordinator guaranteed the equipment was what I asked for and when I show up they have projectors that don't handle 1024x768 which is the only res. at which my laptop's video looks good (640 cuts the text lines up). I had another conference where I was setup 30 minutes early, everything worked fine, unplug my laptop and the first presenter plugs his in, he goes on and finishes, I plug my laptop into the projector and POOF my laptop's screen goes out. It took about 20 minutes to get it all rearranged so that my partner could run the presentation from the projected image rather than the laptop, while I talked about it. (we were showing a new app. live of course.) Luckily there was a third presenter that went on in our time slot and 500 people weren't just sitting there getting irritated. Took a month to get the screen replaced too :o( John BTW AccessD as we know it was formed in 2001 so I guess I have it narrowed down enough now :o) -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of DWUTKA at marlow.com Sent: Wednesday, March 03, 2004 11:47 AM To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: RE: [AccessD] Drew - Age of the Archives? I actually gave a presentation on the 'indexing' capabilities I built for the archives last month. After my track record with major changes/updates to the archives, I was just a little leary to give that presentation....go figure! Drew -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of John Bartow Sent: Wednesday, March 03, 2004 11:24 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] Drew - Age of the Archives? Drew, Yes, it is an interesting timeline, I thought of a few of those things too! :o) Thanks, John -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of DWUTKA at marlow.com Sent: Wednesday, March 03, 2004 10:47 AM To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: RE: [AccessD] Drew - Age of the Archives? Hmmmm, let's work backwards. I know that the archives stopping archiving this past August/September (2003), because that's when I separated from Tammy. I know the archives started using the 'Memo Field Indexing' in April of 2003, because that is when my apartment caught fire. I know I moved the archives from Marlow to my home in early January of 2003, because my DSL company went bankrupt and pulled the plug on their network then. I have no clue when I actually 'started' the archives, other then a wild guess at about 6 months before I moved it home. So I would say July or August of 2002. Drew (Interesting timeline, eh?) -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of John Bartow Sent: Tuesday, March 02, 2004 9:00 PM To: _DBA-Access Subject: [AccessD] Drew - Age of the Archives? Drew, Someone recently asked me how long I have been on this list. The only point of reference I could think of was about two years before I sent all my archives to Drew! So, Do you know when you put the archives together on your site? John "My memory is 40 years ahead of it time (I have a like I'm over 80)" Bartow -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From accessd at shaw.ca Fri Mar 5 01:00:49 2004 From: accessd at shaw.ca (Jim Lawrence (AccessD)) Date: Thu, 04 Mar 2004 23:00:49 -0800 Subject: [AccessD] OT - Hit counter for web pages In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Hi John: There is alway the same one as is on the DBA front page...It's free but might be more that you need. HTH Jim -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of John W. Colby Sent: Thursday, March 04, 2004 4:49 PM To: AccessD; DBA - Tech Subject: [AccessD] OT - Hit counter for web pages Does anyone have a hit counter that I can just cut and paste code into my web page? Shows my ignorance I know but I need something that will do that for me. I need a hit counter for each page, visible on the page itself. John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From Erwin.Craps at ithelps.be Fri Mar 5 01:18:12 2004 From: Erwin.Craps at ithelps.be (Erwin Craps - IT Helps) Date: Fri, 5 Mar 2004 08:18:12 +0100 Subject: [AccessD] OT - Hit counter for web pages Message-ID: <46B976F2B698FF46A4FE7636509B22DF0AD597@stekelbes.ithelps.local> John. Visible hit counters are included in frontpage. I believer 3 or 4 different ones. Erwin -----Oorspronkelijk bericht----- Van: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] Namens Jim Lawrence (AccessD) Verzonden: vrijdag 5 maart 2004 8:01 Aan: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Onderwerp: RE: [AccessD] OT - Hit counter for web pages Hi John: There is alway the same one as is on the DBA front page...It's free but might be more that you need. HTH Jim -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of John W. Colby Sent: Thursday, March 04, 2004 4:49 PM To: AccessD; DBA - Tech Subject: [AccessD] OT - Hit counter for web pages Does anyone have a hit counter that I can just cut and paste code into my web page? Shows my ignorance I know but I need something that will do that for me. I need a hit counter for each page, visible on the page itself. John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From carbonnb at sympatico.ca Fri Mar 5 04:31:07 2004 From: carbonnb at sympatico.ca (Bryan Carbonnell) Date: Fri, 05 Mar 2004 05:31:07 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Building up a framework In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <4048109B.26413.1A6071@localhost> On 4 Mar 2004 at 22:48, John W. Colby wrote: > My question to the group is, should I hold a discussion of the > framework, how it is built, why I do this stuff and so forth on this > list, or take it off to another list for only those interested? Speaking for myself only: Since this is definitely ON TOPIC and ON CHARTER, I say keep it ON LIST. Quoting from the FIRST sentence on DBA's site: "The purpose of the list is to provide an open forum for the posting and discussion of news and information relating to developing applications in Microsoft Access." Those that aren't interested can delete, just like any other thread of non-interest. My personal $0.02 worth. -- Bryan Carbonnell - carbonnb at sympatico.ca 'The knack of flying is learning how to throw yourself at the ground and miss.' - HHGTG From accessd667 at yahoo.com Fri Mar 5 05:06:58 2004 From: accessd667 at yahoo.com (S D) Date: Fri, 5 Mar 2004 03:06:58 -0800 (PST) Subject: [AccessD] A2k - BeforeUpdate Error 2105!!! PLease help! Message-ID: <20040305110658.28112.qmail@web61102.mail.yahoo.com> Hi group, I'm using Access 2000 and I get an error 2105 when Access "leaves" the BeforeUpdate event. So i DO NOT have an error when I'm on the line END SUB (see code below). I've searched the web but all I fount was this link: http://support.microsoft.com/default.aspx?scid=kb;en-us;128195&Product=acc97 "-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- When you perform an action in the BeforeUpdate event, you receive the following error messages, even if you have canceled the event. In Microsoft Access 7.0 and 97: - Runtime error '2105' You can't go to the specified record --------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------" But this is regarding an Access97 database. Could it be that the database was migrated from A97 to Access2000?? If so what can I do about it? Once again the code is OK. There are no errors! Any ideas? TIA Sander Private Sub Form_BeforeUpdate(Cancel As Integer) If IsChangeOK Then ' MsgBox "form_beforeupdate" frmKAM_ProcessKey (vbKeyPageDown) Else Cancel = True End If End Sub --------------------------------- Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Search - Find what you?re looking for faster. From accessd667 at yahoo.com Fri Mar 5 05:09:22 2004 From: accessd667 at yahoo.com (S D) Date: Fri, 5 Mar 2004 03:09:22 -0800 (PST) Subject: [AccessD] Building up a framework In-Reply-To: <4048109B.26413.1A6071@localhost> Message-ID: <20040305110922.30437.qmail@web61107.mail.yahoo.com> Bryan's idea has my vote! Keep it on the list i find this extremely interesting. And it's true, if i don't like/ cannot assint in a discussion I ignore/delete it. Regards, Sander Bryan Carbonnell wrote: On 4 Mar 2004 at 22:48, John W. Colby wrote: > My question to the group is, should I hold a discussion of the > framework, how it is built, why I do this stuff and so forth on this > list, or take it off to another list for only those interested? Speaking for myself only: Since this is definitely ON TOPIC and ON CHARTER, I say keep it ON LIST. Quoting from the FIRST sentence on DBA's site: "The purpose of the list is to provide an open forum for the posting and discussion of news and information relating to developing applications in Microsoft Access." Those that aren't interested can delete, just like any other thread of non-interest. My personal $0.02 worth. -- Bryan Carbonnell - carbonnb at sympatico.ca 'The knack of flying is learning how to throw yourself at the ground and miss.' - HHGTG -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com --------------------------------- Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Search - Find what you?re looking for faster. From pedro at plex.nl Fri Mar 5 12:30:18 2004 From: pedro at plex.nl (pedro at plex.nl) Date: Fri, 05 Mar 2004 12:30:18 (MET) Subject: [AccessD] What is MSysTables??? Message-ID: <200403051130.i25BUIRM007786@mailhostC.plex.net> From gustav at cactus.dk Fri Mar 5 05:29:49 2004 From: gustav at cactus.dk (Gustav Brock) Date: Fri, 5 Mar 2004 12:29:49 +0100 Subject: [AccessD] A2k - BeforeUpdate Error 2105!!! PLease help! In-Reply-To: <20040305110658.28112.qmail@web61102.mail.yahoo.com> References: <20040305110658.28112.qmail@web61102.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <13312280438.20040305122949@cactus.dk> Hi Sander It looks like your action should be moved to the AfterUpdate event. /gustav > I'm using Access 2000 and I get an error 2105 when Access "leaves" > the BeforeUpdate event. .. From pedro at plex.nl Fri Mar 5 12:33:12 2004 From: pedro at plex.nl (pedro at plex.nl) Date: Fri, 05 Mar 2004 12:33:12 (MET) Subject: [AccessD] What is MSysTables??? Message-ID: <200403051133.i25BXCRM007955@mailhostC.plex.net> Hello Group, yesterday i had a question about MSysTables permissions, but nobody responded. Is there somebody who know what MSysTables is. Are these the hidden Objects or is this another Hidden System Object that can't be displayed? Pedro Janssen From gustav at cactus.dk Fri Mar 5 05:50:36 2004 From: gustav at cactus.dk (Gustav Brock) Date: Fri, 5 Mar 2004 12:50:36 +0100 Subject: [AccessD] Export to Mutiple Excel Sheets In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <8113526640.20040305125036@cactus.dk> Hi Mark A simple and reliable method is to create a template in Excel with the two worksheets and no data but each with a Named Range for positioning of your exported data. When you wish to export, copy the template to create your empty workbook and, from this, link the two Named Ranges to Access. Now your two Named Ranges appear as tables where you can update or append but not delete rows. As J?rgen states, you can meet all sorts of troubles with formatting and datatype selection in Excel. If this will be a problem, again the Named Ranges are a big help as you can use automation to open the worksheets and identify and (re)format the rows/columns of the Named Ranges. /gustav > I need to build an export/import function into an A97 db...I want to > export/import 2 query results...1 to each sheet in a new excel workbook. > Any suggestions/directions to head? > Thanks, > Mark A. Matte From jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com Fri Mar 5 06:10:37 2004 From: jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com (John W. Colby) Date: Fri, 5 Mar 2004 07:10:37 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Framework Discussion - Troubleshooting Message-ID: When I started using classes one of the first problems I encountered is the problem of tracking what classes loaded, and did they properly unload. Loading a class and not unloading it when you are finished causes a memory leak where the memory for the class is not returned to Windows. Sometimes Access will return the memory when Access closes, occasionally it can cause Access not to close correctly and this causes not only memory leaks (HUGE) but other problems as well. These ghost Access instances cannot be seen in Windows 98 and AFAIK there is no way to close them in versions of Windows prior to A2K. With A2K and above you have to use the task manager. Either way it is ugly. It is therefore critical that we keep track of what is loaded and ensure that we unload them when we are done. In my current framework I use a long integer that each class directly increments as it loads. This was my first tool, taken from example code from Shamil. '*+ Module Variable declaration Private mlngObjCounter As Long 'A COUNT OF ALL INSTANCES OF CLASSES IN THE SYSTEM Public Sub IncObjCounter() mlngObjCounter = mlngObjCounter + 1 end sub Public Sub DecObjCounter(strObjName As String) mlngObjCounter = mlngObjCounter - 1 end sub While this was useful and at least told me a gross count of what was loaded, I decided I really wanted to be able to see the names of the class instances loaded so I added a class. In order to do this I added a collection into which I would add the name of the class loading, and remove that class' name as the class unloaded. Private mlngObjCounter As Long 'A COUNT OF ALL INSTANCES OF CLASSES IN THE SYSTEM Public mcolObjNames As Collection Public Sub IncObjCounter(strObjName As String) mlngObjCounter = mlngObjCounter + 1 mcolObjNames.Add strObjName end sub Public Sub DecObjCounter(strObjName As String) mlngObjCounter = mlngObjCounter - 1 mcolObjNames.Remove strObjName end sub I could then use a function to read out the strings in the collection: Public Function ObjNames() As String On Error GoTo Err_ObjNames Dim strName As Variant Dim str For Each strName In mcolObjNames If Len(str) > 0 Then str = str & "; " & vbCrLf & strName Else str = strName End If Next strName ObjNames = str end function This works reasonably well and is the system I have lived with for quite awhile now. For the new framework I decided to store a pointer to the actual class instead of just the name of the class. The class calls a function that stores a pointer to itself in the collection as it loads, and a function that removes its pointer as it unloads. I do this because I now have a single place to go to look at and manipulate if necessary any class instance. One of the problems we deal with is "where is the pointer to this class stored"? In other words, a class can be loaded in code in a form, and the pointer stored in a variable in the form's header, or perhaps in a function in some piece of code and just stored in a variable local to that function, or perhaps in some class and stored in a collection in that class. If you want to go look at the class, execute a method, examine a property etc. how do you "get at" a pointer to the class? By storing a pointer to every class loaded in a collection we can now: a. get a count of all classes loaded by examining the collection count b. get a list of the names by iterating the collection asking each class it's name and building up a string c. get at the actual class and manipulate it if needed by getting the pointer from this class. For this reason I have decided to use this method. disclaimer: it is important to realize that classes do not truly unload from memory until the last pointer to the class is set to nothing. Thus if you instantiate a class, store a pointer in this collection and a variable in a form header (for example) the class will not unload until you delete the pointer in the collection AND in the form. If your code stores a pointer in another variable somewhere, the class will not close until ALL THREE pointers are set to nothing. My class init() / term() methods save the pointers in this collection as well as a child collection of the classes parent object (more on that later), and as the class unloads it will clean out these two instances. However if YOUR code saves a pointer in some other variable, I don't know that and can't clean that up, so the class will remain open until YOU set your pointer to nothing. I am toying with using a collection in each class that is a pointer to all the variables holding pointers to that class. I.e. if you need to store a pointer to the class in a variable of your own (perhaps to sink events?) then you call a method of the class passing in the variable you will use. The class puts a pointer to itself in that variable AND ... saves a pointer to that variable in a collection inside the class. Now the class CAN clean up all those errant pointers to itself by simply iterating it's own PointersToSelf collection setting each variable to nothing and removing the variable from its collection. Well, gotta go earn money now. Comments welcomed. John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com From Subscriptions at servicexp.com Fri Mar 5 06:19:31 2004 From: Subscriptions at servicexp.com (Robert Gracie) Date: Fri, 5 Mar 2004 07:19:31 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Building up a framework In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Fantastic John!! I think this is going to help a lot of people, including myself.. I think the discussion is On Topic, and I vote to keep it on this list.. Just be patient with me, as it may take me a while to digest the information enough to respond with questions.. Thanks John!! Robert Gracie www.servicexp.com -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of John W. Colby Sent: Thursday, March 04, 2004 10:48 PM To: AccessD Subject: [AccessD] Building up a framework I am preparing a series of articles for Many-to-Many on building a framework. I have a very basic framework started with the clsFW class, dclsFrm and dclsTextBox, as well as Sysvars and a couple of service classes, ZIP and Unzip. I will throw in a few more like some encryption classes. AFAICT this much is functioning, I can load a form, the form scanner finds all text boxes and loads a class for each, the SysVars function etc. Many to Many only publishes every 2 months or so. A series of articles will take 6 months to a year to get out. There is going to be a LOT of code, and some pretty in-depth discussions of collections, Classes / setup, teardown and debugging, Withevents, service classes and all the other stuff that goes into my framework. The end result will be a fully functioning if still rather basic application framework. My question to the group is, should I hold a discussion of the framework, how it is built, why I do this stuff and so forth on this list, or take it off to another list for only those interested? John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From accessd667 at yahoo.com Fri Mar 5 06:25:40 2004 From: accessd667 at yahoo.com (S D) Date: Fri, 5 Mar 2004 04:25:40 -0800 (PST) Subject: [AccessD] A2k - BeforeUpdate Error 2105!!! PLease help! In-Reply-To: <13312280438.20040305122949@cactus.dk> Message-ID: <20040305122540.51134.qmail@web61107.mail.yahoo.com> Gustav, I was going to say No, it should be in BeforeUpdate but since you answered most of my questions on this list correct...why do you think it should be in the AfterUpdate event? The code checks if there where any changes made to the current record. If so these need to be saved, or not. I believe that who-ever programmed the app was correct in putting the code in the BeforeUpdate event. Sander Gustav Brock wrote: Hi Sander It looks like your action should be moved to the AfterUpdate event. /gustav > I'm using Access 2000 and I get an error 2105 when Access "leaves" > the BeforeUpdate event. .. -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com --------------------------------- Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Search - Find what you?re looking for faster. From gustav at cactus.dk Fri Mar 5 06:49:46 2004 From: gustav at cactus.dk (Gustav Brock) Date: Fri, 5 Mar 2004 13:49:46 +0100 Subject: [AccessD] A2k - BeforeUpdate Error 2105!!! PLease help! In-Reply-To: <20040305122540.51134.qmail@web61107.mail.yahoo.com> References: <20040305122540.51134.qmail@web61107.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <16117076745.20040305134946@cactus.dk> Hi Sander Because doing anything in the BeforeUpdate event which has influence on the current record - like navigation on the form - usually will cause troubles if not failure. In my experience, this event should be reserved for validation or user confirmation - eventually setting Cancel to True. I guess that if you remove this naughty code line: frmKAM_ProcessKey (vbKeyPageDown) you will receive no error. /gustav > Gustav, > I was going to say No, it should be in BeforeUpdate but since you answered most of my questions on this list correct...why do you think it should be in the AfterUpdate event? > The code checks if there where any changes made to the current record. If so these need to be saved, or not. > I believe that who-ever programmed the app was correct in putting the code in the BeforeUpdate event. > Sander > Gustav Brock wrote: > Hi Sander > It looks like your action should be moved to the AfterUpdate event. > /gustav >> I'm using Access 2000 and I get an error 2105 when Access "leaves" >> the BeforeUpdate event. .. From jimdettman at earthlink.net Fri Mar 5 06:56:27 2004 From: jimdettman at earthlink.net (Jim Dettman) Date: Fri, 5 Mar 2004 07:56:27 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] What is MSysTables??? In-Reply-To: <200403051133.i25BXCRM007955@mailhostC.plex.net> Message-ID: Pedro, The MsysTables are hidden tables that exist in every Access database. They are used to define and store information regarding objects in a Access database file. Jim Dettman President, Online Computer Services of WNY, Inc. (315) 699-3443 jimdettman at earthlink.net -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of pedro at plex.nl Sent: Friday, March 05, 2004 12:33 PM To: AccessD at databaseadvisors.com Subject: [AccessD] What is MSysTables??? Hello Group, yesterday i had a question about MSysTables permissions, but nobody responded. Is there somebody who know what MSysTables is. Are these the hidden Objects or is this another Hidden System Object that can't be displayed? Pedro Janssen -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From gustav at cactus.dk Fri Mar 5 06:59:37 2004 From: gustav at cactus.dk (Gustav Brock) Date: Fri, 5 Mar 2004 13:59:37 +0100 Subject: [AccessD] What is MSysTables??? In-Reply-To: <200403051133.i25BXCRM007955@mailhostC.plex.net> References: <200403051133.i25BXCRM007955@mailhostC.plex.net> Message-ID: <5317667855.20040305135937@cactus.dk> Hi Pedro You may be changing the SQL of a query. Have a look here: http://dbforums.com/arch/110/2003/11/962648 /gustav > yesterday i had a question about MSysTables permissions, but nobody responded. Is there somebody who know what MSysTables is. Are these the hidden Objects or is this another Hidden System Object > that can't be displayed? From jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com Fri Mar 5 07:09:41 2004 From: jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com (John W. Colby) Date: Fri, 5 Mar 2004 08:09:41 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] What is MSysTables??? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: To see them: Tools/options/view/ check System Objects John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Jim Dettman Sent: Friday, March 05, 2004 7:56 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] What is MSysTables??? Pedro, The MsysTables are hidden tables that exist in every Access database. They are used to define and store information regarding objects in a Access database file. Jim Dettman President, Online Computer Services of WNY, Inc. (315) 699-3443 jimdettman at earthlink.net -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of pedro at plex.nl Sent: Friday, March 05, 2004 12:33 PM To: AccessD at databaseadvisors.com Subject: [AccessD] What is MSysTables??? Hello Group, yesterday i had a question about MSysTables permissions, but nobody responded. Is there somebody who know what MSysTables is. Are these the hidden Objects or is this another Hidden System Object that can't be displayed? Pedro Janssen -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com Fri Mar 5 07:11:25 2004 From: jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com (John W. Colby) Date: Fri, 5 Mar 2004 08:11:25 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] String of windows updates Message-ID: Is anyone getting a new windows update every day? It doesn't ask for a reboot so I don't. Is it possible it's just not seeing the update and sending me the same one day after day? John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com From bheid at appdevgrp.com Fri Mar 5 07:19:57 2004 From: bheid at appdevgrp.com (Bobby Heid) Date: Fri, 5 Mar 2004 08:19:57 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] String of windows updates In-Reply-To: <916187228923D311A6FE00A0CC3FAA307B7FB0@ADGSERVER> Message-ID: <916187228923D311A6FE00A0CC3FAA305BB2F6@ADGSERVER> I have been getting one of these also. I install it and it re-appears again the next day or so. I am assuming that the install is failing for some reason, but I have not had time to check it out. Bobby -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of John W. Colby Sent: Friday, March 05, 2004 8:11 AM To: AccessD Subject: [AccessD] String of windows updates Is anyone getting a new windows update every day? It doesn't ask for a reboot so I don't. Is it possible it's just not seeing the update and sending me the same one day after day? John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From bheid at appdevgrp.com Fri Mar 5 07:20:48 2004 From: bheid at appdevgrp.com (Bobby Heid) Date: Fri, 5 Mar 2004 08:20:48 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Building up a framework In-Reply-To: <916187228923D311A6FE00A0CC3FAA307B7ED0@ADGSERVER> Message-ID: <916187228923D311A6FE00A0CC3FAA305BB2F7@ADGSERVER> I vote for on-list. Bobby -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of John W. Colby Sent: Thursday, March 04, 2004 10:48 PM To: AccessD Subject: [AccessD] Building up a framework I am preparing a series of articles for Many-to-Many on building a framework. I have a very basic framework started with the clsFW class, dclsFrm and dclsTextBox, as well as Sysvars and a couple of service classes, ZIP and Unzip. I will throw in a few more like some encryption classes. AFAICT this much is functioning, I can load a form, the form scanner finds all text boxes and loads a class for each, the SysVars function etc. Many to Many only publishes every 2 months or so. A series of articles will take 6 months to a year to get out. There is going to be a LOT of code, and some pretty in-depth discussions of collections, Classes / setup, teardown and debugging, Withevents, service classes and all the other stuff that goes into my framework. The end result will be a fully functioning if still rather basic application framework. My question to the group is, should I hold a discussion of the framework, how it is built, why I do this stuff and so forth on this list, or take it off to another list for only those interested? John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From shait at mindspring.com Fri Mar 5 07:57:52 2004 From: shait at mindspring.com (Stephen Hait) Date: Fri, 5 Mar 2004 08:57:52 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] OT - Hit counter for web pages In-Reply-To: References: <4047AF6F.24623.2685976@localhost> Message-ID: <40484110.4180.4A1369C@localhost> In that case, you can get much more reliable data about your site traffic from examining the web server logs. Stuart's suggestions were good ones. I'd determine from my web host how to most easily access my log files and then, if necessary, start looking for tools to analyze them; Webalyzer might fit the bill. Regards, Stephen > So that I can see which pages are visited and how often. > > John W. Colby > www.ColbyConsulting.com > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Stephen > Hait Sent: Thursday, March 04, 2004 10:37 PM To: > accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: Re: [AccessD] OT - Hit counter > for web pages > > > > Does anyone have a hit counter that I can just cut and paste code > > into my web page? Shows my ignorance I know but I need something > > that will do that for me. I need a hit counter for each page, > > visible on the page itself. > > > > John W. Colby > > Just curious - why do you need a hit counter on every page of > your web site? For your information? For the benefit of your > visitors? Something else? Depending on your goals, there may > be other alternatives. > > Regards, > Stephen > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From Lambert.Heenan at AIG.com Fri Mar 5 08:07:28 2004 From: Lambert.Heenan at AIG.com (Heenan, Lambert) Date: Fri, 5 Mar 2004 09:07:28 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] String of windows updates Message-ID: <8B98F8EA48F8BA47A2F24E0D0AF40CF407AD7F50@xlivmbx12.aig.com> Are you installing it while logged in as an Admin user? > -----Original Message----- > From: Bobby Heid [SMTP:bheid at appdevgrp.com] > Sent: Friday, March 05, 2004 8:20 AM > To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' > Subject: RE: [AccessD] String of windows updates > > I have been getting one of these also. I install it and it re-appears > again > the next day or so. I am assuming that the install is failing for some > reason, but I have not had time to check it out. > > Bobby > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of John W. Colby > Sent: Friday, March 05, 2004 8:11 AM > To: AccessD > Subject: [AccessD] String of windows updates > > > Is anyone getting a new windows update every day? It doesn't ask for a > reboot so I don't. Is it possible it's just not seeing the update and > sending me the same one day after day? > > John W. Colby > www.ColbyConsulting.com > > > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From bheid at appdevgrp.com Fri Mar 5 08:15:09 2004 From: bheid at appdevgrp.com (Bobby Heid) Date: Fri, 5 Mar 2004 09:15:09 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] String of windows updates In-Reply-To: <916187228923D311A6FE00A0CC3FAA307B7FD0@ADGSERVER> Message-ID: <916187228923D311A6FE00A0CC3FAA305BB2F9@ADGSERVER> Yes I am. Bobby -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Heenan, Lambert Sent: Friday, March 05, 2004 9:07 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: [AccessD] String of windows updates Are you installing it while logged in as an Admin user? > -----Original Message----- > From: Bobby Heid [SMTP:bheid at appdevgrp.com] > Sent: Friday, March 05, 2004 8:20 AM > To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' > Subject: RE: [AccessD] String of windows updates > > I have been getting one of these also. I install it and it re-appears > again the next day or so. I am assuming that the install is failing > for some reason, but I have not had time to check it out. > > Bobby > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of John W. > Colby > Sent: Friday, March 05, 2004 8:11 AM > To: AccessD > Subject: [AccessD] String of windows updates > > > Is anyone getting a new windows update every day? It doesn't ask for > a reboot so I don't. Is it possible it's just not seeing the update > and sending me the same one day after day? > > John W. Colby > www.ColbyConsulting.com > > > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From liz at symphonyinfo.com Fri Mar 5 08:23:38 2004 From: liz at symphonyinfo.com (Liz Doering) Date: Fri, 5 Mar 2004 08:23:38 -0600 Subject: [AccessD] Database Un-splitter: New 'Feature' from Microsoft In-Reply-To: <20040304232034.EZLN1860.imf24aec.mail.bellsouth.net@SUSANONE> Message-ID: I hunted around for an option that governed this, but I didn't find one--did I miss something? Having a 'local copy' is the part that caused the problem. -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Susan Harkins Sent: Thursday, March 04, 2004 5:21 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: [AccessD] Database Un-splitter: New 'Feature' from Microsoft 2003 does let you work with a "local" copy of a linked table -- are you sure someone didn't just choose the wrong option? Susan H. I ran smack up against a new 'feature' of Access 2003 today. I have a client who, for reasons of his own, keeps his BE in Access 97. With the purchase of new machines, some of his users have gotten to Access 2003, while others are still using 97. I made a few changes on site last week, using a 2003 machine for development and blithely saving my changes to a 97 version when I was done. Without saying a word, 2003 made a copy of all the BE tables in the new 97 FE. So now my 97 user is working on a copy, disconnected from his server. Of course it took him 3 days' worth of work to notice. I'll be spending Monday cleaning up this fiasco. And several more days, wondering why somebody didn't put a little warning on this process! The one good point: he's gotten over his need to keep 97. Liz Doering Symphony Information Services liz at symphonyinfo.com www.symphonyinfo.com 763-391-7400 -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From Oleg_123 at xuppa.com Fri Mar 5 08:25:36 2004 From: Oleg_123 at xuppa.com (Oleg_123 at xuppa.com) Date: Fri, 5 Mar 2004 09:25:36 -0500 (EST) Subject: [AccessD] IIF statement In-Reply-To: <916187228923D311A6FE00A0CC3FAA305BB2F9@ADGSERVER> References: <916187228923D311A6FE00A0CC3FAA307B7FD0@ADGSERVER> <916187228923D311A6FE00A0CC3FAA305BB2F9@ADGSERVER> Message-ID: <36622.63.251.87.214.1078496736.squirrel@heck.bay9.com> Hey group, i am still trying to figure out how to do else in an IIF t-sql statement this part works fine -- (IIf([Ron Data mid].DEPT In ("MSS","MID","SW","OW"),[Ron Data mid].[MS Date Opened])) AS NewDateOpened, however i d'like every other department to get data from a differnt column . How should i do it ? (IIf([Ron Data mid].DEPT In ("MSS","MID","SW","OW"),[Ron Data mid].[MS Date Opened])ELSE [MID_Date_Opened]) AS NewDateOpened, oleg ----------------------------------------- Get Breaking News from CNN, ABC, NBC, CBS Now. http://www.xuppa.com/news/?link=webmail From gustav at cactus.dk Fri Mar 5 08:35:07 2004 From: gustav at cactus.dk (Gustav Brock) Date: Fri, 5 Mar 2004 15:35:07 +0100 Subject: [AccessD] IIF statement In-Reply-To: <36622.63.251.87.214.1078496736.squirrel@heck.bay9.com> References: <916187228923D311A6FE00A0CC3FAA307B7FD0@ADGSERVER> <916187228923D311A6FE00A0CC3FAA305BB2F9@ADGSERVER> <36622.63.251.87.214.1078496736.squirrel@heck.bay9.com> Message-ID: <323397654.20040305153507@cactus.dk> Hi Oleg Don't know much about T-SQL but how about this: (IIf([Ron Data mid].DEPT In ("MSS","MID","SW","OW"), [Ron Data mid].[MS Date Opened]), [MID_Date_Opened]) AS NewDateOpened, /gustav > Hey group, i am still trying to figure out how to do else in an IIF t-sql > statement > this part works fine -- > (IIf([Ron Data mid].DEPT In ("MSS","MID","SW","OW"),[Ron Data mid].[MS > Date Opened])) AS NewDateOpened, > however i d'like every other department to get data from a differnt column > . How should i do it ? > (IIf([Ron Data mid].DEPT In ("MSS","MID","SW","OW"),[Ron Data mid].[MS > Date Opened])ELSE [MID_Date_Opened]) AS NewDateOpened, > oleg > ----------------------------------------- > Get Breaking News from CNN, ABC, NBC, CBS Now. > http://www.xuppa.com/news/?link=webmail From music at weblnk.net Fri Mar 5 08:42:38 2004 From: music at weblnk.net (Jason Strickland) Date: Fri, 5 Mar 2004 09:42:38 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] String of windows updates In-Reply-To: <916187228923D311A6FE00A0CC3FAA305BB2F9@ADGSERVER> Message-ID: <200403051442.i25EgbYH010740@ns5.caro.net> It has been my experience with Windows Update lately that if you do not reboot, then it will keep downloading it over and over. Jason -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Bobby Heid Sent: Friday, March 05, 2004 9:15 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: [AccessD] String of windows updates Yes I am. Bobby -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Heenan, Lambert Sent: Friday, March 05, 2004 9:07 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: [AccessD] String of windows updates Are you installing it while logged in as an Admin user? > -----Original Message----- > From: Bobby Heid [SMTP:bheid at appdevgrp.com] > Sent: Friday, March 05, 2004 8:20 AM > To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' > Subject: RE: [AccessD] String of windows updates > > I have been getting one of these also. I install it and it re-appears > again the next day or so. I am assuming that the install is failing > for some reason, but I have not had time to check it out. > > Bobby > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of John W. > Colby > Sent: Friday, March 05, 2004 8:11 AM > To: AccessD > Subject: [AccessD] String of windows updates > > > Is anyone getting a new windows update every day? It doesn't ask for > a reboot so I don't. Is it possible it's just not seeing the update > and sending me the same one day after day? > > John W. Colby > www.ColbyConsulting.com > > > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From Oleg_123 at xuppa.com Fri Mar 5 08:43:57 2004 From: Oleg_123 at xuppa.com (Oleg_123 at xuppa.com) Date: Fri, 5 Mar 2004 09:43:57 -0500 (EST) Subject: [AccessD] IIF statement In-Reply-To: <323397654.20040305153507@cactus.dk> References: <916187228923D311A6FE00A0CC3FAA307B7FD0@ADGSERVER> <916187228923D311A6FE00A0CC3FAA305BB2F9@ADGSERVER> <36622.63.251.87.214.1078496736.squirrel@heck.bay9.com> <323397654.20040305153507@cactus.dk> Message-ID: <34978.63.251.87.214.1078497837.squirrel@heck.bay9.com> Gustav, u ar right (only the perentasis order is a little different -- (IIf([Ron Data mid].DEPT In ("MSS","MID","SW","OW"), [Ron Data mid].[MS Date Opened], [MID_Date_Opened])) AS NewDateOpened, > (IIf([Ron Data mid].DEPT In ("MSS","MID","SW","OW"), > [Ron Data mid].[MS Date Opened]), [MID_Date_Opened]) > AS NewDateOpened, > > > /gustav > > >> Hey group, i am still trying to figure out how to do else in an IIF >> t-sql statement > >> this part works fine -- > >> (IIf([Ron Data mid].DEPT In ("MSS","MID","SW","OW"),[Ron Data >> mid].[MS >> Date Opened])) AS NewDateOpened, > >> however i d'like every other department to get data from a differnt >> column . How should i do it ? > >> (IIf([Ron Data mid].DEPT In ("MSS","MID","SW","OW"),[Ron Data >> mid].[MS >> Date Opened])ELSE [MID_Date_Opened]) AS NewDateOpened, > >> oleg > > >> ----------------------------------------- >> Get Breaking News from CNN, ABC, NBC, CBS Now. >> http://www.xuppa.com/news/?link=webmail > > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com ----------------------------------------- Get Breaking News from CNN, ABC, NBC, CBS Now. http://www.xuppa.com/news/?link=webmail From john at winhaven.net Fri Mar 5 08:47:50 2004 From: john at winhaven.net (John Bartow) Date: Fri, 5 Mar 2004 08:47:50 -0600 Subject: [AccessD] String of windows updates In-Reply-To: Message-ID: This would likely be a failed update. I've had it happen once before on w2k. (Wxp hasn't been nagging me lately.) There are some pointed articles on MS's site concerning this. What I suggest is to remove the update (if listed in the add/remove/applet), download the update manually from the Windows Update Catalog, (as Admin) scan your system for malware with a different company's online scanner than the one you have installed (try Trend Micro's or Panda's(online its good)) and Spybot Search & Destroy. (BTW-this is a good thing to do during lunch as it takes awhile.) Stop all unnecessary processes and install from the downloaded file. Good Luck, John B -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of John W. Colby Sent: Friday, March 05, 2004 7:11 AM To: AccessD Subject: [AccessD] String of windows updates Is anyone getting a new windows update every day? It doesn't ask for a reboot so I don't. Is it possible it's just not seeing the update and sending me the same one day after day? John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From mikedorism at adelphia.net Fri Mar 5 08:56:21 2004 From: mikedorism at adelphia.net (Mike & Doris Manning) Date: Fri, 5 Mar 2004 09:56:21 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Building up a framework In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <000001c402c2$05f3c7f0$a1194244@hargrove.internal> I would definitely be interested in learning more. It does fit list netiquette. Doris Manning Database Administrator Hargrove Inc. www.hargroveinc.com -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of John W. Colby Sent: Thursday, March 04, 2004 10:48 PM To: AccessD Subject: [AccessD] Building up a framework I am preparing a series of articles for Many-to-Many on building a framework. I have a very basic framework started with the clsFW class, dclsFrm and dclsTextBox, as well as Sysvars and a couple of service classes, ZIP and Unzip. I will throw in a few more like some encryption classes. AFAICT this much is functioning, I can load a form, the form scanner finds all text boxes and loads a class for each, the SysVars function etc. Many to Many only publishes every 2 months or so. A series of articles will take 6 months to a year to get out. There is going to be a LOT of code, and some pretty in-depth discussions of collections, Classes / setup, teardown and debugging, Withevents, service classes and all the other stuff that goes into my framework. The end result will be a fully functioning if still rather basic application framework. My question to the group is, should I hold a discussion of the framework, how it is built, why I do this stuff and so forth on this list, or take it off to another list for only those interested? John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From ggonzalez at cccis.com Fri Mar 5 09:05:17 2004 From: ggonzalez at cccis.com (ggonzalez at cccis.com) Date: Fri, 5 Mar 2004 09:05:17 -0600 Subject: [AccessD] Building up a framework In-Reply-To: <916187228923D311A6FE00A0CC3FAA305BB2F7@ADGSERVER> Message-ID: I vote for on-list. From ggonzalez at cccis.com Fri Mar 5 09:08:17 2004 From: ggonzalez at cccis.com (ggonzalez at cccis.com) Date: Fri, 5 Mar 2004 09:08:17 -0600 Subject: [AccessD] IIF statement In-Reply-To: <36622.63.251.87.214.1078496736.squirrel@heck.bay9.com> Message-ID: have you tried using a case statment MonthlyAmount = CASE WHEN dbo.TBLASG_PIPELINE.PRODISYEARLY = '1' THEN dbo.TBLASG_PIPELINE.PRODAMOUNT / 12 ELSE dbo.TBLASG_PIPELINE.PRODAMOUNT END Sent by: To: accessd-bounces at databasea cc: dvisors.com Subject: [AccessD] IIF statement 03/05/2004 08:25 AM Please respond to Access Developers discussion and problem solving Hey group, i am still trying to figure out how to do else in an IIF t-sql statement this part works fine -- (IIf([Ron Data mid].DEPT In ("MSS","MID","SW","OW"),[Ron Data mid].[MS Date Opened])) AS NewDateOpened, however i d'like every other department to get data from a differnt column . How should i do it ? (IIf([Ron Data mid].DEPT In ("MSS","MID","SW","OW"),[Ron Data mid].[MS Date Opened])ELSE [MID_Date_Opened]) AS NewDateOpened, oleg ----------------------------------------- Get Breaking News from CNN, ABC, NBC, CBS Now. http://www.xuppa.com/news/?link=webmail -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From Patricia.O'Connor at DFA.STATE.NY.US Fri Mar 5 09:19:38 2004 From: Patricia.O'Connor at DFA.STATE.NY.US (O'Connor, Patricia ) Date: Fri, 5 Mar 2004 10:19:38 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Building up a framework Message-ID: I agree Patti > -----Original Message----- > From: Bryan Carbonnell [mailto:carbonnb at sympatico.ca] > Sent: Friday, March 05, 2004 05:31 AM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: Re: [AccessD] Building up a framework > > > On 4 Mar 2004 at 22:48, John W. Colby wrote: > > > My question to the group is, should I hold a discussion of the > > framework, how it is built, why I do this stuff and so forth on this > > list, or take it off to another list for only those interested? > > Speaking for myself only: > > Since this is definitely ON TOPIC and ON CHARTER, I say keep it ON > LIST. > > Quoting from the FIRST sentence on DBA's site: > "The purpose of the list is to provide an open forum for the posting > and discussion of news and information relating to developing > applications in Microsoft Access." > > Those that aren't interested can delete, just like any other thread > of non-interest. > > My personal $0.02 worth. > > -- > Bryan Carbonnell - carbonnb at sympatico.ca > 'The knack of flying is learning how to throw yourself at the ground > and miss.' - HHGTG > > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > From Oleg_123 at xuppa.com Fri Mar 5 09:20:23 2004 From: Oleg_123 at xuppa.com (Oleg_123 at xuppa.com) Date: Fri, 5 Mar 2004 10:20:23 -0500 (EST) Subject: [AccessD] another IIF statement question In-Reply-To: <34978.63.251.87.214.1078497837.squirrel@heck.bay9.com> References: <916187228923D311A6FE00A0CC3FAA307B7FD0@ADGSERVER> <916187228923D311A6FE00A0CC3FAA305BB2F9@ADGSERVER> <36622.63.251.87.214.1078496736.squirrel@heck.bay9.com> <323397654.20040305153507@cactus.dk> <34978.63.251.87.214.1078497837.squirrel@heck.bay9.com> Message-ID: <36569.63.251.87.214.1078500023.squirrel@heck.bay9.com> I have 3 columns - if one contains a record the other two are blank; and I an trying to combine them 3 in one column. I was able to combine contest of 2 columns -- (IIF(NOT isNull([Ron Data mid].[SW_Date_Closed]), [Ron Data mid].[SW_Date_Closed],[OW_Date_Closed])) AS W_Date_Closed but i am not sure how to add the third. i needs to be in the following fashion - if (a is not null), a, else if (b is not null), b, else c) any hints ? (IIF(NOT isNull([Ron Data mid].[SW_Date_Closed]), [Ron Data mid].[SW_Date_Closed], (NOT isNull ([OW_Date_Closed]), [MSS_Date_Closed] )) AS W_Date_Closed, ----------------------------------------- Get Breaking News from CNN, ABC, NBC, CBS Now. http://www.xuppa.com/news/?link=webmail From Oleg_123 at xuppa.com Fri Mar 5 09:33:49 2004 From: Oleg_123 at xuppa.com (Oleg_123 at xuppa.com) Date: Fri, 5 Mar 2004 10:33:49 -0500 (EST) Subject: [AccessD] IIF statement In-Reply-To: References: <36622.63.251.87.214.1078496736.squirrel@heck.bay9.com> Message-ID: <22578.63.251.87.214.1078500829.squirrel@heck.bay9.com> i get 'missing operator' error and the word WHEN is highlighted W_Date_Closed = CASE WHEN (NOT isNull([Ron Data mid].[SW_Date_Closed])) THEN [SW_Date_Closed] ELSE WHEN (NOT isNull([Ron Data mid].[OW_Date_Closed])) THEN [OW_Date_Closed] ELSE [MSS_Date_Closed] END > > > > > have you tried using a case statment > > MonthlyAmount = > CASE WHEN dbo.TBLASG_PIPELINE.PRODISYEARLY = '1' > THEN dbo.TBLASG_PIPELINE.PRODAMOUNT / 12 > ELSE dbo.TBLASG_PIPELINE.PRODAMOUNT > END > > > > > > > Sent by: > To: > > accessd-bounces at databasea cc: > > dvisors.com > Subject: [AccessD] IIF statement > > > > 03/05/2004 08:25 AM > > Please respond to Access > > Developers > discussion and > > problem solving > > > > > > > > Hey group, i am still trying to figure out how to do else in an IIF > t-sql statement > > this part works fine -- > > (IIf([Ron Data mid].DEPT In ("MSS","MID","SW","OW"),[Ron Data mid].[MS > Date Opened])) AS NewDateOpened, > > however i d'like every other department to get data from a differnt > column . How should i do it ? > > (IIf([Ron Data mid].DEPT In ("MSS","MID","SW","OW"),[Ron Data mid].[MS > Date Opened])ELSE [MID_Date_Opened]) AS NewDateOpened, > > oleg > > > ----------------------------------------- > Get Breaking News from CNN, ABC, NBC, CBS Now. > http://www.xuppa.com/news/?link=webmail > > > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com ----------------------------------------- Get Breaking News from CNN, ABC, NBC, CBS Now. http://www.xuppa.com/news/?link=webmail From markamatte at hotmail.com Fri Mar 5 08:58:32 2004 From: markamatte at hotmail.com (Mark A Matte) Date: Fri, 05 Mar 2004 14:58:32 +0000 Subject: [AccessD] Export to Mutiple Excel Sheets Message-ID: >but if all I needed was a portable emailable snapshot of predictably >transferable data, I would consider those methods. This is exactly what I need...what I didn't want to do was export 2 files for the other user to import...just 1 file with 2 worksheets...the excel file will almost never even be viewed...just imported. >Although DoCmd.TransferSpreadsheet will create a sheet for each named query >or table that you export to a file at a target path If I understand this statement...Using the tranferspreadsheet will automatically create another worksheet if I use the same target path? Thanks, Mark >From: "J?rgen Welz" >Reply-To: Access Developers discussion and problem >solving >To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com >Subject: Re: [AccessD] Export to Mutiple Excel Sheets >Date: Thu, 04 Mar 2004 22:45:53 -0700 > >Although DoCmd.TransferSpreadsheet will create a sheet for each named query >or table that you export to a file at a target path, my predisposition to >keep it simple and fast is circumscribed by constraints of reliability, >error management, data validation and format control that dictate Excel >automation. If you're just dumping a bunch of pure text and integers into >a sheet, no problem. If you've got strings like '02E234', Excel will >arbitrarily assume that it is a number in exponential notation and I've had >that kind of issue bite me from time to time in the past. > >Using automation, you can insert sheets in a particular order, set column >widths, row heights, sorts, filters, do conditional formatting, name >ranges, set titles, headers, protection .... My export/imort needs have >never been met by the docmd methods, but if all I needed was a portable >emailable snapshot of predictably transferable data, I would consider those >methods. > > > >Ciao >J?rgen Welz >Edmonton, Alberta >jwelz at hotmail.com > > > > > >>From: >>Reply-To: Access Developers discussion and problem >>solving >>To: >>Subject: Re: [AccessD] Export to Mutiple Excel Sheets >>Date: Thu, 4 Mar 2004 23:20:37 -0500 (EST) >>MIME-Version: 1.0 >>Received: from mc2-f12.hotmail.com ([65.54.190.19]) by mc2-s17.hotmail.com >>with Microsoft SMTPSVC(5.0.2195.6824); Thu, 4 Mar 2004 20:22:01 -0800 >>Received: from databaseadvisors.com ([209.135.140.44]) by >>mc2-f12.hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC(5.0.2195.6824); Thu, 4 Mar 2004 >>20:21:05 -0800 >>Received: from databaseadvisors.com (databaseadvisors.com >>[209.135.140.44])by databaseadvisors.com (8.11.6/8.11.6) with ESMTP id >>i254KaM02761;Thu, 4 Mar 2004 22:20:36 -0600 >>Received: from heck.bay9.com ([66.28.60.200])by databaseadvisors.com >>(8.11.6/8.11.6) with ESMTP id i254KUM02705for >>; Thu, 4 Mar 2004 22:20:31 -0600 >>Received: from xuppa.com (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1])by >>heck.bay9.com (Postfix) with SMTP id CCBDA5B500for >>;Thu, 4 Mar 2004 23:20:37 -0500 (EST) >>Received: from 24.187.36.171 (proxying for unknown)(SquirrelMail >>authenticated user Oleg_123)by heck.bay9.com with HTTP; Thu, 4 Mar 2004 >>23:20:37 -0500 (EST) >>X-Message-Info: jl7Vrt/mfspXc7/cLcma3MAwjiq6mK2F >>Message-ID: <3049.24.187.36.171.1078460437.squirrel at heck.bay9.com> >>In-Reply-To: >>References: >>X-Mailer: SquirrelMail (version 1.2.10) >>X-BeenThere: accessd at databaseadvisors.com >>X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.4 >>Precedence: list >>List-Id: Access Developers discussion and problem >>solving >>List-Help: >>List-Post: >>List-Subscribe: >>, >>List-Archive: >>List-Unsubscribe: >>, >>Errors-To: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com >>Return-Path: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com >>X-OriginalArrivalTime: 05 Mar 2004 04:21:05.0359 (UTC) >>FILETIME=[46AA15F0:01C40269] >> >>Mark, >> >>I thought that its possible to specify sheets in export macro; is it so ? >> >> > Hello All, >> > >> > I need to build an export/import function into an A97 db...I want to >> > export/import 2 query results...1 to each sheet in a new excel >>workbook. >> > Any suggestions/directions to head? >> > >> > Thanks, >> > >> > Mark A. Matte >> > >> > _________________________________________________________________ >> > Fast. Reliable. Get MSN 9 Dial-up - 3 months for the price of 1! >> > (Limited-time Offer) >> > http://click.atdmt.com/AVE/go/onm00200361ave/direct/01/ >> > >> > -- >> > _______________________________________________ >> > AccessD mailing list >> > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com >> > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd >> > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com >> >> >> >>----------------------------------------- >>Get Breaking News from CNN, ABC, NBC, CBS Now. >>http://www.xuppa.com/news/?link=webmail >> >> >>-- >>_______________________________________________ >>AccessD mailing list >>AccessD at databaseadvisors.com >>http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd >>Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > >_________________________________________________________________ >MSN Premium: Up to 11 personalized e-mail addresses and 2 months FREE* >http://join.msn.com/?pgmarket=en-ca&page=byoa/prem&xAPID=1994&DI=1034&SU=http://hotmail.com/enca&HL=Market_MSNIS_Taglines > >-- >_______________________________________________ >AccessD mailing list >AccessD at databaseadvisors.com >http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd >Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com _________________________________________________________________ Create a Job Alert on MSN Careers and enter for a chance to win $1000! http://msn.careerbuilder.com/promo/kaday.htm?siteid=CBMSN_1K&sc_extcmp=JS_JASweep_MSNHotm2 From mikedorism at adelphia.net Fri Mar 5 09:46:50 2004 From: mikedorism at adelphia.net (Mike & Doris Manning) Date: Fri, 5 Mar 2004 10:46:50 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] another IIF statement question In-Reply-To: <36569.63.251.87.214.1078500023.squirrel@heck.bay9.com> Message-ID: <000001c402c9$134a6060$a1194244@hargrove.internal> IIf(NOT ISNULL(a), a, IIf(NOT ISNULL(b), b, c)) Doris Manning Database Administrator Hargrove Inc. www.hargroveinc.com -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Oleg_123 at xuppa.com Sent: Friday, March 05, 2004 10:20 AM To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: [AccessD] another IIF statement question I have 3 columns - if one contains a record the other two are blank; and I an trying to combine them 3 in one column. I was able to combine contest of 2 columns -- (IIF(NOT isNull([Ron Data mid].[SW_Date_Closed]), [Ron Data mid].[SW_Date_Closed],[OW_Date_Closed])) AS W_Date_Closed but i am not sure how to add the third. i needs to be in the following fashion - if (a is not null), a, else if (b is not null), b, else c) any hints ? (IIF(NOT isNull([Ron Data mid].[SW_Date_Closed]), [Ron Data mid].[SW_Date_Closed], (NOT isNull ([OW_Date_Closed]), [MSS_Date_Closed] )) AS W_Date_Closed, ----------------------------------------- Get Breaking News from CNN, ABC, NBC, CBS Now. http://www.xuppa.com/news/?link=webmail -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From mikedorism at adelphia.net Fri Mar 5 09:47:04 2004 From: mikedorism at adelphia.net (Mike & Doris Manning) Date: Fri, 5 Mar 2004 10:47:04 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] another IIF statement question In-Reply-To: <36569.63.251.87.214.1078500023.squirrel@heck.bay9.com> Message-ID: <000101c402c9$1be76c90$a1194244@hargrove.internal> IIf(NOT ISNULL(a), a, IIf(NOT ISNULL(b), b, c)) Doris Manning Database Administrator Hargrove Inc. www.hargroveinc.com -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Oleg_123 at xuppa.com Sent: Friday, March 05, 2004 10:20 AM To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: [AccessD] another IIF statement question I have 3 columns - if one contains a record the other two are blank; and I an trying to combine them 3 in one column. I was able to combine contest of 2 columns -- (IIF(NOT isNull([Ron Data mid].[SW_Date_Closed]), [Ron Data mid].[SW_Date_Closed],[OW_Date_Closed])) AS W_Date_Closed but i am not sure how to add the third. i needs to be in the following fashion - if (a is not null), a, else if (b is not null), b, else c) any hints ? (IIF(NOT isNull([Ron Data mid].[SW_Date_Closed]), [Ron Data mid].[SW_Date_Closed], (NOT isNull ([OW_Date_Closed]), [MSS_Date_Closed] )) AS W_Date_Closed, ----------------------------------------- Get Breaking News from CNN, ABC, NBC, CBS Now. http://www.xuppa.com/news/?link=webmail -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From prodevmg at yahoo.com Fri Mar 5 09:48:41 2004 From: prodevmg at yahoo.com (Lonnie Johnson) Date: Fri, 5 Mar 2004 07:48:41 -0800 (PST) Subject: [AccessD] Don't append if data exist Message-ID: <20040305154841.28969.qmail@web20413.mail.yahoo.com> I have a query that runs every morning. It appends records to a table if a DISCHARGE DATE falls within the current month. Each day it will duplicate records for a CLEINT. How do I NOT append a record if BOTH the CLIENT NUMBER and the same DISCHARGE DATE exist. Note it is possible for a person to be discharged twice in one month. That is ok as long as the dates are different. I can't seem to think this through. Please help me think today Lonnie Johnson ProDev, Professional Development of MS Access Databases Visit me at ==> http://www.prodev.us --------------------------------- Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Search - Find what you?re looking for faster. From my.lists at verizon.net Fri Mar 5 09:54:22 2004 From: my.lists at verizon.net (Francisco H Tapia) Date: Fri, 05 Mar 2004 07:54:22 -0800 Subject: [AccessD] OT: MZ-Tools, Smart Indenter In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <4048A2AE.3040906@verizon.net> mz-tools ROCKS!... error handling linenumbering... and even being able to copy a series of code into memory, that's bad ass. Charlotte Foust wrote: >I use MZ-Tools daily. It makes things like inserting error handlers WAY >easier than anything else I've found. > >Charlotte Foust > >-----Original Message----- >From: S D [mailto:accessd667 at yahoo.com] >Sent: Thursday, March 04, 2004 1:34 AM >To: accessd >Subject: [AccessD] OT: MZ-Tools, Smart Indenter > > >Hi group, > >For those who do not use MZ-Tools and/ or Smart Indenter. Check 'm out! >Great free tools that save a lot of time. > >Sander > >PS: I didn't build these or anything like it. I only use them :-) > > > -- -Francisco From bchacc at san.rr.com Fri Mar 5 09:56:49 2004 From: bchacc at san.rr.com (Rocky Smolin - Beach Access Software) Date: Fri, 5 Mar 2004 07:56:49 -0800 Subject: [AccessD] Deployment References: Message-ID: <012701c402ca$7844f150$6801a8c0@HAL9002> Thanks Jim. I'll either try that or give it to my developer to implement. Rocky ----- Original Message ----- From: "Jim Lawrence (AccessD)" To: "Access Developers discussion and problem solving" Sent: Thursday, March 04, 2004 6:08 PM Subject: RE: [AccessD] Deployment > Hi Rocky: > > IF you have a windows server handy for orchestrating the deployment you > could try something as follows: > > 1. Create a sub-directory, off your ftproot directory, for each person or > group of persons you wish to send the file to. > 2. Create a user name and/or group for all who you wish to deliver the > package to. Give appropriate access rights. (username/password) > 3. In your IIS, create a virtual ftp account, using/pointing the name(s) to > the ftproot dir. Make sure the virtual ftp name is the same as the actual > directory name. (If the physical directory is name .\MyProduct the virtual > ftp directory should be named MyProduct). Attach the new account(s) through > the virtual ftp process as prompted. If you are only giving download rights, > set the virtual directory to Read-Only. > 4. Send each group or single user(s), with your requesting email a line as > follow: > ftp://MyFTPVirtualAccount:theTopSecretPassword at MySiteURLorAddress/MyProductF > ileName.zip > > Pressing on the line above will automatically start a download process. > > HTH > Jim > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Rocky Smolin - > Beach Access Software > Sent: Wednesday, March 03, 2004 7:56 AM > To: AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > Subject: [AccessD] Deployment > > > Dear List: > > I've got an app I'm developing for the consumer market and we're in beta > testing now. It's in A2K so all the betas have to have Access. > > Eventually it will have to be packaged as a run-time. But at that point it > will be shrink-wrapped. > > In the short term we could expand our beta testing universe with a run-time. > So I'm trying to figure out the best way to do this. > > The problem AFAIK with the run-times is their size. Right now we can email > the mde to a beta tester and it's about 3-4MB. If I put up a run-time on my > web site, beta testers are not likely to know how to do an FTP program. > > I suppose I could make a password protected folder on my web site, and get > my web site developer to make the run-time downloadable or installable from > the site. I don't know how to do this. Maybe she does. > > I've got A97 developer's edition, Wise Installer, and the Sagekey script for > A97. But I don't think that the app can be converted back to A97. In any > event, the total A97/Wise/Sagekey package runs to about 70MB IIRC. > > I could buy A2002 or A2003 if they've got a better deployment capability > than they've had in the past. > > What are your recommendations, suggestions, thoughts? > > Thanks in advance, > > Rocky Smolin > Beach Access Software > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > From gustav at cactus.dk Fri Mar 5 09:58:35 2004 From: gustav at cactus.dk (Gustav Brock) Date: Fri, 5 Mar 2004 16:58:35 +0100 Subject: [AccessD] another IIF statement question In-Reply-To: <36569.63.251.87.214.1078500023.squirrel@heck.bay9.com> References: <916187228923D311A6FE00A0CC3FAA307B7FD0@ADGSERVER> <916187228923D311A6FE00A0CC3FAA305BB2F9@ADGSERVER> <36622.63.251.87.214.1078496736.squirrel@heck.bay9.com> <323397654.20040305153507@cactus.dk> <34978.63.251.87.214.1078497837.squirrel@heck.bay9.com> <36569.63.251.87.214.1078500023.squirrel@heck.bay9.com> Message-ID: <3628405695.20040305165835@cactus.dk> Hi Oleg > I have 3 columns - if one contains a record the other two are blank; and I > an trying to combine them 3 in one column. I was able to combine contest > of 2 columns -- > (IIF(NOT isNull([Ron Data mid].[SW_Date_Closed]), [Ron Data > mid].[SW_Date_Closed],[OW_Date_Closed])) AS W_Date_Closed How about: [Ron Data mid].[SW_Date_Closed] & [Ron Data mid].[SW_Date_Closed] & [OW_Date_Closed] AS W_Date_Closed /gustav From my.lists at verizon.net Fri Mar 5 10:07:19 2004 From: my.lists at verizon.net (Francisco H Tapia) Date: Fri, 05 Mar 2004 08:07:19 -0800 Subject: [AccessD] OT: MZ-Tools, Smart Indenter In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <4048A5B7.40607@verizon.net> Anybody know if there is something similar for DOTnet? Charlotte Foust wrote: >I use MZ-Tools daily. It makes things like inserting error handlers WAY >easier than anything else I've found. > >Charlotte Foust > >-----Original Message----- >From: S D [mailto:accessd667 at yahoo.com] >Sent: Thursday, March 04, 2004 1:34 AM >To: accessd >Subject: [AccessD] OT: MZ-Tools, Smart Indenter > > >Hi group, > >For those who do not use MZ-Tools and/ or Smart Indenter. Check 'm out! >Great free tools that save a lot of time. > >Sander > >PS: I didn't build these or anything like it. I only use them :-) > > > > -- -Francisco From jwelz at hotmail.com Fri Mar 5 10:17:08 2004 From: jwelz at hotmail.com (Jürgen Welz) Date: Fri, 05 Mar 2004 09:17:08 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] Export to Mutiple Excel Sheets Message-ID: It will create the workbook file it it doesn't exist and add a sheet every time you export to that file (up to Excel's limit of 255 sheets). If you send the same query twice to the same target workbook, it uses the same sheet in the workbook and overwrites it. The sheets will be added in sequential order, but once created, a subsequent overwrite will not move that sheet to the end of the order. It is only one line of code in the debug window to try this out. Ciao J?rgen Welz Edmonton, Alberta jwelz at hotmail.com >From: "Mark A Matte" > >>but if all I needed was a portable emailable snapshot of predictably >>transferable data, I would consider those methods. > >This is exactly what I need...what I didn't want to do was export 2 files >for the other user to import...just 1 file with 2 worksheets...the excel >file will almost never even be viewed...just imported. > >>Although DoCmd.TransferSpreadsheet will create a sheet for each named >>query or table that you export to a file at a target path > >If I understand this statement...Using the tranferspreadsheet will >automatically create another worksheet if I use the same target path? > >Thanks, > >Mark > >>From: "J?rgen Welz" >>Reply-To: Access Developers discussion and problem >>solving >>To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com >>Subject: Re: [AccessD] Export to Mutiple Excel Sheets >>Date: Thu, 04 Mar 2004 22:45:53 -0700 >> >>Although DoCmd.TransferSpreadsheet will create a sheet for each named >>query or table that you export to a file at a target path, my >>predisposition to keep it simple and fast is circumscribed by constraints >>of reliability, error management, data validation and format control that >>dictate Excel automation. If you're just dumping a bunch of pure text and >>integers into a sheet, no problem. If you've got strings like '02E234', >>Excel will arbitrarily assume that it is a number in exponential notation >>and I've had that kind of issue bite me from time to time in the past. >> >>Using automation, you can insert sheets in a particular order, set column >>widths, row heights, sorts, filters, do conditional formatting, name >>ranges, set titles, headers, protection .... My export/imort needs have >>never been met by the docmd methods, but if all I needed was a portable >>emailable snapshot of predictably transferable data, I would consider >>those methods. >> >> >> >>Ciao >>J?rgen Welz >>Edmonton, Alberta >>jwelz at hotmail.com _________________________________________________________________ MSN Premium helps eliminate e-mail viruses. Get 2 months FREE* http://join.msn.com/?pgmarket=en-ca&page=byoa/prem&xAPID=1994&DI=1034&SU=http://hotmail.com/enca&HL=Market_MSNIS_Taglines From paul.hartland at fsmail.net Fri Mar 5 10:18:58 2004 From: paul.hartland at fsmail.net (paul.hartland at fsmail.net) Date: Fri, 5 Mar 2004 17:18:58 +0100 (CET) Subject: [AccessD] IIF statement Message-ID: <18518109.1078503538638.JavaMail.www@wwinf3002> Oleg, Should work something like this (IIf([Ron Data mid].DEPT In ("MSS","MID","SW","OW"),[Ron Data mid].[MS Date Opened]) AS NewDateOpened, [MID_Date_Opened]) AS NewDateOpened) Paul Message date : Mar 05 2004, 04:08 PM >From : Oleg_123 at xuppa.com To : accessd at databaseadvisors.com Copy to : Subject : [AccessD] IIF statement Hey group, i am still trying to figure out how to do else in an IIF t-sql statement this part works fine -- (IIf([Ron Data mid].DEPT In ("MSS","MID","SW","OW"),[Ron Data mid].[MS Date Opened])) AS NewDateOpened, however i d'like every other department to get data from a differnt column . How should i do it ? (IIf([Ron Data mid].DEPT In ("MSS","MID","SW","OW"),[Ron Data mid].[MS Date Opened])ELSE [MID_Date_Opened]) AS NewDateOpened, oleg ----------------------------------------- Get Breaking News from CNN, ABC, NBC, CBS Now. http://www.xuppa.com/news/?link=webmail -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com Freeserve AnyTime - HALF PRICE for the first 3 months - Save ?7.50 a month www.freeserve.com/anytime From rsmethurst at UK.EY.COM Fri Mar 5 10:21:42 2004 From: rsmethurst at UK.EY.COM (rsmethurst at UK.EY.COM) Date: Fri, 5 Mar 2004 16:21:42 +0000 Subject: [AccessD] Changing Data Types - URGENT Message-ID: Hi All, Is there a way I can programmatically change a datatype in a field, using either VBA or SQL? TIA Ryan This e-mail and any attachment are confidential and contain proprietary information, some or all of which may be legally privileged. It is intended solely for the use of the individual or entity to which it is addressed. If you are not the intended recipient, please notify the author immediately by telephone or by replying to this e-mail, and then delete all copies of the e-mail on your system. If you are not the intended recipient, you must not use, disclose, distribute, copy, print or rely on this e-mail. Whilst we have taken reasonable precautions to ensure that this e-mail and any attachment has been checked for viruses, we cannot guarantee that they are virus free and we cannot accept liability for any damage sustained as a result of software viruses. We would advise that you carry out your own virus checks, especially before opening an attachment. The UK firm Ernst & Young LLP is a limited liability partnership registered in England and Wales with registered number OC300001 and is a member practice of Ernst & Young Global. A list of members? names is available for inspection at 1 More London Place, London, SE1 2AF, the firm?s principal place of business and its registered office. From Oleg_123 at xuppa.com Fri Mar 5 10:32:01 2004 From: Oleg_123 at xuppa.com (Oleg_123 at xuppa.com) Date: Fri, 5 Mar 2004 11:32:01 -0500 (EST) Subject: [AccessD] Changing Data Types - URGENT In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <22458.63.251.87.214.1078504321.squirrel@heck.bay9.com> Dim zz as string Dim aa zz = "8" aa = CInt(zz) > Hi All, > > Is there a way I can programmatically change a datatype in a field, > using either VBA or SQL? > > TIA > Ryan > > > > This e-mail and any attachment are confidential and contain proprietary > information, some or all of which may be legally privileged. It is > intended solely for the use of the individual or entity to which it is > addressed. If you are not the intended recipient, please notify the > author immediately by telephone or by replying to this e-mail, and then > delete all copies of the e-mail on your system. If you are not the > intended recipient, you must not use, disclose, distribute, copy, print > or rely on this e-mail. > > Whilst we have taken reasonable precautions to ensure that this e-mail > and any attachment has been checked for viruses, we cannot guarantee > that they are virus free and we cannot accept liability for any damage > sustained as a result of software viruses. We would advise that you > carry out your own virus checks, especially before opening an > attachment. > > The UK firm Ernst & Young LLP is a limited liability partnership > registered in England and Wales with registered number OC300001 and is a > member practice of Ernst & Young Global. A list of members? names is > available for inspection at 1 More London Place, London, SE1 2AF, the > firm?s principal place of business and its registered office. -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com ----------------------------------------- Get Breaking News from CNN, ABC, NBC, CBS Now. http://www.xuppa.com/news/?link=webmail From cfoust at infostatsystems.com Fri Mar 5 10:35:02 2004 From: cfoust at infostatsystems.com (Charlotte Foust) Date: Fri, 5 Mar 2004 08:35:02 -0800 Subject: [AccessD] OT: MZ-Tools, Smart Indenter Message-ID: There are a lot of Visual Studio .Net add-ins, free and otherwise, but I don't know if there are any swiss army knife type add-ins like MZ-Tools. Charlotte Foust -----Original Message----- From: Francisco H Tapia [mailto:my.lists at verizon.net] Sent: Friday, March 05, 2004 8:07 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] OT: MZ-Tools, Smart Indenter Anybody know if there is something similar for DOTnet? Charlotte Foust wrote: >I use MZ-Tools daily. It makes things like inserting error handlers >WAY easier than anything else I've found. > >Charlotte Foust > >-----Original Message----- >From: S D [mailto:accessd667 at yahoo.com] >Sent: Thursday, March 04, 2004 1:34 AM >To: accessd >Subject: [AccessD] OT: MZ-Tools, Smart Indenter > > >Hi group, > >For those who do not use MZ-Tools and/ or Smart Indenter. Check 'm out! >Great free tools that save a lot of time. > >Sander > >PS: I didn't build these or anything like it. I only use them :-) > > > > -- -Francisco -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From cfoust at infostatsystems.com Fri Mar 5 10:37:46 2004 From: cfoust at infostatsystems.com (Charlotte Foust) Date: Fri, 5 Mar 2004 08:37:46 -0800 Subject: [AccessD] Changing Data Types - URGENT Message-ID: Are you asking about changing the table structure? If so, you can't do that with a query, although you can with VBA ... And some effort. If you provide more specifics about the Access version and what you want to do, someone should be able to help you. Charlotte Foust -----Original Message----- From: rsmethurst at uk.ey.com [mailto:rsmethurst at uk.ey.com] Sent: Friday, March 05, 2004 8:22 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: [AccessD] Changing Data Types - URGENT Hi All, Is there a way I can programmatically change a datatype in a field, using either VBA or SQL? TIA Ryan This e-mail and any attachment are confidential and contain proprietary information, some or all of which may be legally privileged. It is intended solely for the use of the individual or entity to which it is addressed. If you are not the intended recipient, please notify the author immediately by telephone or by replying to this e-mail, and then delete all copies of the e-mail on your system. If you are not the intended recipient, you must not use, disclose, distribute, copy, print or rely on this e-mail. Whilst we have taken reasonable precautions to ensure that this e-mail and any attachment has been checked for viruses, we cannot guarantee that they are virus free and we cannot accept liability for any damage sustained as a result of software viruses. We would advise that you carry out your own virus checks, especially before opening an attachment. The UK firm Ernst & Young LLP is a limited liability partnership registered in England and Wales with registered number OC300001 and is a member practice of Ernst & Young Global. A list of members? names is available for inspection at 1 More London Place, London, SE1 2AF, the firm?s principal place of business and its registered office. -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From rl_stewart at highstream.net Fri Mar 5 10:39:25 2004 From: rl_stewart at highstream.net (Robert L. Stewart) Date: Fri, 05 Mar 2004 10:39:25 -0600 Subject: [AccessD] Re: Pocket PC In-Reply-To: <200403050657.i256vTM29673@databaseadvisors.com> Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20040305103858.00ba62b8@pop3.highstream.net> Do a search for Pendragon on google. At 12:57 AM 3/5/2004 -0600, you wrote: >Date: Thu, 4 Mar 2004 18:42:31 -0600 >From: >Subject: [AccessD] Pocket PC >To: >Message-ID: <200403050043.i250hhM10421 at databaseadvisors.com> >Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" > >Hi, >I have a MS Access XP app which i need to synchronize with a Pocket PC. >I have no idea how i can establish that. Is there some software out there to >design simple forms on a Pocket PC y synchroinze it with Access? >Thanks to everybody. >Rudolf F. Vanek From cfoust at infostatsystems.com Fri Mar 5 10:39:37 2004 From: cfoust at infostatsystems.com (Charlotte Foust) Date: Fri, 5 Mar 2004 08:39:37 -0800 Subject: [AccessD] OT: MZ-Tools, Smart Indenter Message-ID: One of the things I like, since I work in Source Safe almost constantly, is the Close All Windows item that gets added to the Windows menu in the IDE. Charlotte Foust -----Original Message----- From: Francisco H Tapia [mailto:my.lists at verizon.net] Sent: Friday, March 05, 2004 7:54 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] OT: MZ-Tools, Smart Indenter mz-tools ROCKS!... error handling linenumbering... and even being able to copy a series of code into memory, that's bad ass. Charlotte Foust wrote: >I use MZ-Tools daily. It makes things like inserting error handlers >WAY easier than anything else I've found. > >Charlotte Foust > >-----Original Message----- >From: S D [mailto:accessd667 at yahoo.com] >Sent: Thursday, March 04, 2004 1:34 AM >To: accessd >Subject: [AccessD] OT: MZ-Tools, Smart Indenter > > >Hi group, > >For those who do not use MZ-Tools and/ or Smart Indenter. Check 'm out! >Great free tools that save a lot of time. > >Sander > >PS: I didn't build these or anything like it. I only use them :-) > > > -- -Francisco -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From cfoust at infostatsystems.com Fri Mar 5 10:40:49 2004 From: cfoust at infostatsystems.com (Charlotte Foust) Date: Fri, 5 Mar 2004 08:40:49 -0800 Subject: [AccessD] Don't append if data exist Message-ID: If the discharge date and client combination has to be unique, create a unique key on those two fields. That will keep the duplicate records out. Charlotte Foust -----Original Message----- From: Lonnie Johnson [mailto:prodevmg at yahoo.com] Sent: Friday, March 05, 2004 7:49 AM To: 'MS-ACCESS-L at lists.missouri.edu'; AccessDevelopers; ms_access; AccessD solving' Subject: [AccessD] Don't append if data exist I have a query that runs every morning. It appends records to a table if a DISCHARGE DATE falls within the current month. Each day it will duplicate records for a CLEINT. How do I NOT append a record if BOTH the CLIENT NUMBER and the same DISCHARGE DATE exist. Note it is possible for a person to be discharged twice in one month. That is ok as long as the dates are different. I can't seem to think this through. Please help me think today Lonnie Johnson ProDev, Professional Development of MS Access Databases Visit me at ==> http://www.prodev.us --------------------------------- Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Search - Find what you're looking for faster. -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From rsmethurst at UK.EY.COM Fri Mar 5 10:42:52 2004 From: rsmethurst at UK.EY.COM (rsmethurst at UK.EY.COM) Date: Fri, 5 Mar 2004 16:42:52 +0000 Subject: [AccessD] Changing Data Types - URGENT Message-ID: Charlotte. Access 2K. - and I would like to change a field in a table from (whatever it is...text,numeric, etc.) to datetime. This change will take place after the table has been created. TIA Ryan "Charlotte Foust" Sent by: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com 05/03/2004 16:37 Please respond to Access Developers discussion and problem solving To: "Access Developers discussion and problem solving" cc: Subject: RE: [AccessD] Changing Data Types - URGENT Are you asking about changing the table structure? If so, you can't do that with a query, although you can with VBA ... And some effort. If you provide more specifics about the Access version and what you want to do, someone should be able to help you. Charlotte Foust -----Original Message----- From: rsmethurst at uk.ey.com [mailto:rsmethurst at uk.ey.com] Sent: Friday, March 05, 2004 8:22 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: [AccessD] Changing Data Types - URGENT Hi All, Is there a way I can programmatically change a datatype in a field, using either VBA or SQL? TIA Ryan This e-mail and any attachment are confidential and contain proprietary information, some or all of which may be legally privileged. It is intended solely for the use of the individual or entity to which it is addressed. If you are not the intended recipient, please notify the author immediately by telephone or by replying to this e-mail, and then delete all copies of the e-mail on your system. If you are not the intended recipient, you must not use, disclose, distribute, copy, print or rely on this e-mail. Whilst we have taken reasonable precautions to ensure that this e-mail and any attachment has been checked for viruses, we cannot guarantee that they are virus free and we cannot accept liability for any damage sustained as a result of software viruses. We would advise that you carry out your own virus checks, especially before opening an attachment. The UK firm Ernst & Young LLP is a limited liability partnership registered in England and Wales with registered number OC300001 and is a member practice of Ernst & Young Global. A list of members? names is available for inspection at 1 More London Place, London, SE1 2AF, the firm?s principal place of business and its registered office. -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com This e-mail and any attachment are confidential and contain proprietary information, some or all of which may be legally privileged. It is intended solely for the use of the individual or entity to which it is addressed. If you are not the intended recipient, please notify the author immediately by telephone or by replying to this e-mail, and then delete all copies of the e-mail on your system. If you are not the intended recipient, you must not use, disclose, distribute, copy, print or rely on this e-mail. Whilst we have taken reasonable precautions to ensure that this e-mail and any attachment has been checked for viruses, we cannot guarantee that they are virus free and we cannot accept liability for any damage sustained as a result of software viruses. We would advise that you carry out your own virus checks, especially before opening an attachment. The UK firm Ernst & Young LLP is a limited liability partnership registered in England and Wales with registered number OC300001 and is a member practice of Ernst & Young Global. A list of members? names is available for inspection at 1 More London Place, London, SE1 2AF, the firm?s principal place of business and its registered office. From ssharkins at bellsouth.net Fri Mar 5 10:46:58 2004 From: ssharkins at bellsouth.net (Susan Harkins) Date: Fri, 5 Mar 2004 11:46:58 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Changing Data Types - URGENT In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <20040305164656.JUWI18468.imf24aec.mail.bellsouth.net@SUSANONE> ALTER TABLE table ALTER COLUMN column newtype([size]) Table must be closed, and I'm assuming you understand the risks of changing the data type, so I won't ramble on about that. Susan H. Hi All, Is there a way I can programmatically change a datatype in a field, using either VBA or SQL? From Oleg_123 at xuppa.com Fri Mar 5 10:50:20 2004 From: Oleg_123 at xuppa.com (Oleg_123 at xuppa.com) Date: Fri, 5 Mar 2004 11:50:20 -0500 (EST) Subject: [AccessD] Changing Data Types - URGENT In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <14626.63.251.87.214.1078505420.squirrel@heck.bay9.com> Ryan, using VBA you can do it throght CDate() > Charlotte. > > Access 2K. - and I would like to change a field in a table from > (whatever it is...text,numeric, etc.) to datetime. > This change will take place after the table has been created. > > TIA > Ryan > > > > > > "Charlotte Foust" > Sent by: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > 05/03/2004 16:37 > Please respond to Access Developers discussion and problem solving > > > To: "Access Developers discussion and problem solving" > > cc: > Subject: RE: [AccessD] Changing Data Types - URGENT > > > Are you asking about changing the table structure? If so, you can't do > that with a query, although you can with VBA ... And some effort. If > you provide more specifics about the Access version and what you want to > do, someone should be able to help you. > > Charlotte Foust > > -----Original Message----- > From: rsmethurst at uk.ey.com [mailto:rsmethurst at uk.ey.com] > Sent: Friday, March 05, 2004 8:22 AM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: [AccessD] Changing Data Types - URGENT > > > Hi All, > > Is there a way I can programmatically change a datatype in a field, > using > either VBA or SQL? > > TIA > Ryan > > > > This e-mail and any attachment are confidential and contain proprietary > information, some or all of which may be legally privileged. It is > intended solely for the use of the individual or entity to which it is > addressed. If you are not the intended recipient, please notify the > author immediately by telephone or by replying to this e-mail, and then > delete all copies of the e-mail on your system. If you are not the > intended recipient, you must not use, disclose, distribute, copy, print > or rely on this e-mail. > > Whilst we have taken reasonable precautions to ensure that this e-mail > and any attachment has been checked for viruses, we cannot guarantee > that they are virus free and we cannot accept liability for any damage > sustained as a result of software viruses. We would advise that you > carry out your own virus checks, especially before opening an > attachment. > > The UK firm Ernst & Young LLP is a limited liability partnership > registered in England and Wales with registered number OC300001 and is a > member practice of Ernst & Young Global. A list of members? names is > available for inspection at 1 More London Place, London, SE1 2AF, the > firm?s principal place of business and its registered office. > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > > > > This e-mail and any attachment are confidential and contain proprietary > information, some or all of which may be legally privileged. It is > intended solely for the use of the individual or entity to which it is > addressed. If you are not the intended recipient, please notify the > author immediately by telephone or by replying to this e-mail, and then > delete all copies of the e-mail on your system. If you are not the > intended recipient, you must not use, disclose, distribute, copy, print > or rely on this e-mail. > > Whilst we have taken reasonable precautions to ensure that this e-mail > and any attachment has been checked for viruses, we cannot guarantee > that they are virus free and we cannot accept liability for any damage > sustained as a result of software viruses. We would advise that you > carry out your own virus checks, especially before opening an > attachment. > > The UK firm Ernst & Young LLP is a limited liability partnership > registered in England and Wales with registered number OC300001 and is a > member practice of Ernst & Young Global. A list of members? names is > available for inspection at 1 More London Place, London, SE1 2AF, the > firm?s principal place of business and its registered office. -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com ----------------------------------------- Get Breaking News from CNN, ABC, NBC, CBS Now. http://www.xuppa.com/news/?link=webmail From pedro at plex.nl Fri Mar 5 17:52:30 2004 From: pedro at plex.nl (pedro at plex.nl) Date: Fri, 05 Mar 2004 17:52:30 (MET) Subject: [AccessD] What is MSysTables??? Message-ID: <200403051652.i25GqURM021896@mailhostC.plex.net> Hello, thank to all who responded. I know that there are hidden system tables, but wat i didn't know is that MSysTables are refering to them. I thought that this was an other table that couldn't be viewed. The Link Gustav gave me, showed me hopefully the correct answer. Pedro Janssen In antwoord op: > From: Gustav Brock > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Date: Fri, 5 Mar 2004 13:59:37 +0100 > Subject: Re: [AccessD] What is MSysTables??? > > > Hi Pedro > > You may be changing the SQL of a query. > Have a look here: > > http://dbforums.com/arch/110/2003/11/962648 > > /gustav > > > > yesterday i had a question about MSysTables permissions, but nobody responded. Is there somebody who know what MSysTables is. Are these the hidden Objects or is this another Hidden System Object > > that can't be displayed? > > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > From ggonzalez at cccis.com Fri Mar 5 10:53:47 2004 From: ggonzalez at cccis.com (ggonzalez at cccis.com) Date: Fri, 5 Mar 2004 10:53:47 -0600 Subject: [AccessD] IIF statement In-Reply-To: <22578.63.251.87.214.1078500829.squirrel@heck.bay9.com> Message-ID: Oleg, the isnull() function in SQL server works differently than in access. This function acctually does somthing when it finds a null value, i.e isNull([Ron Data mid].[SW_Date_Closed,0) this would return a 0 when it finds a null value you would want to do somthing like the following PipeLine = CASE WHEN dbo.TBLASG_PIPELINE.NOTESUNID IS NOT NULL THEN 1 ELSE 0 END, hope this helps Sent by: To: accessd-bounces at databasea cc: dvisors.com Subject: Re: [AccessD] IIF statement 03/05/2004 09:33 AM Please respond to Access Developers discussion and problem solving i get 'missing operator' error and the word WHEN is highlighted W_Date_Closed = CASE WHEN (NOT isNull([Ron Data mid].[SW_Date_Closed])) THEN [SW_Date_Closed] ELSE WHEN (NOT isNull([Ron Data mid].[OW_Date_Closed])) THEN [OW_Date_Closed] ELSE [MSS_Date_Closed] END > > > > > have you tried using a case statment > > MonthlyAmount = > CASE WHEN dbo.TBLASG_PIPELINE.PRODISYEARLY = '1' > THEN dbo.TBLASG_PIPELINE.PRODAMOUNT / 12 > ELSE dbo.TBLASG_PIPELINE.PRODAMOUNT > END > > > > > > > Sent by: > To: > > accessd-bounces at databasea cc: > > dvisors.com > Subject: [AccessD] IIF statement > > > > 03/05/2004 08:25 AM > > Please respond to Access > > Developers > discussion and > > problem solving > > > > > > > > Hey group, i am still trying to figure out how to do else in an IIF > t-sql statement > > this part works fine -- > > (IIf([Ron Data mid].DEPT In ("MSS","MID","SW","OW"),[Ron Data mid].[MS > Date Opened])) AS NewDateOpened, > > however i d'like every other department to get data from a differnt > column . How should i do it ? > > (IIf([Ron Data mid].DEPT In ("MSS","MID","SW","OW"),[Ron Data mid].[MS > Date Opened])ELSE [MID_Date_Opened]) AS NewDateOpened, > > oleg > > > ----------------------------------------- > Get Breaking News from CNN, ABC, NBC, CBS Now. > http://www.xuppa.com/news/?link=webmail > > > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com ----------------------------------------- Get Breaking News from CNN, ABC, NBC, CBS Now. http://www.xuppa.com/news/?link=webmail -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From Kenneth.Stoker at pnl.gov Fri Mar 5 10:53:05 2004 From: Kenneth.Stoker at pnl.gov (Stoker, Kenneth E) Date: Fri, 05 Mar 2004 08:53:05 -0800 Subject: [AccessD] Building up a framework Message-ID: <249C1CB246997C48BB74963CCD361C1B014A052C@pnlmse28.pnl.gov> I am interested. I vote for on-list. Ken Stoker Technology Commercialization Information Systems Administrator PH: (509) 375-3758 FAX: (509) 375-6731 E-mail: Kenneth.Stoker at pnl.gov -----Original Message----- From: John W. Colby [mailto:jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com] Sent: Thursday, March 04, 2004 7:48 PM To: AccessD Subject: [AccessD] Building up a framework I am preparing a series of articles for Many-to-Many on building a framework. I have a very basic framework started with the clsFW class, dclsFrm and dclsTextBox, as well as Sysvars and a couple of service classes, ZIP and Unzip. I will throw in a few more like some encryption classes. AFAICT this much is functioning, I can load a form, the form scanner finds all text boxes and loads a class for each, the SysVars function etc. Many to Many only publishes every 2 months or so. A series of articles will take 6 months to a year to get out. There is going to be a LOT of code, and some pretty in-depth discussions of collections, Classes / setup, teardown and debugging, Withevents, service classes and all the other stuff that goes into my framework. The end result will be a fully functioning if still rather basic application framework. My question to the group is, should I hold a discussion of the framework, how it is built, why I do this stuff and so forth on this list, or take it off to another list for only those interested? John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From rsmethurst at UK.EY.COM Fri Mar 5 10:53:04 2004 From: rsmethurst at UK.EY.COM (rsmethurst at UK.EY.COM) Date: Fri, 5 Mar 2004 16:53:04 +0000 Subject: [AccessD] Changing Data Types - URGENT Message-ID: Thanks Susan, Yip well aware! Will be sorting out a proper solution that will update the import function to take care of this..but for now that is exactly what I want! Many thanks Ryan "Susan Harkins" Sent by: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com 05/03/2004 16:46 Please respond to Access Developers discussion and problem solving To: "'Access Developers discussion and problem solving'" cc: Subject: RE: [AccessD] Changing Data Types - URGENT ALTER TABLE table ALTER COLUMN column newtype([size]) Table must be closed, and I'm assuming you understand the risks of changing the data type, so I won't ramble on about that. Susan H. Hi All, Is there a way I can programmatically change a datatype in a field, using either VBA or SQL? -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com This e-mail and any attachment are confidential and contain proprietary information, some or all of which may be legally privileged. It is intended solely for the use of the individual or entity to which it is addressed. If you are not the intended recipient, please notify the author immediately by telephone or by replying to this e-mail, and then delete all copies of the e-mail on your system. If you are not the intended recipient, you must not use, disclose, distribute, copy, print or rely on this e-mail. Whilst we have taken reasonable precautions to ensure that this e-mail and any attachment has been checked for viruses, we cannot guarantee that they are virus free and we cannot accept liability for any damage sustained as a result of software viruses. We would advise that you carry out your own virus checks, especially before opening an attachment. The UK firm Ernst & Young LLP is a limited liability partnership registered in England and Wales with registered number OC300001 and is a member practice of Ernst & Young Global. A list of members? names is available for inspection at 1 More London Place, London, SE1 2AF, the firm?s principal place of business and its registered office. From rl_stewart at highstream.net Fri Mar 5 10:57:03 2004 From: rl_stewart at highstream.net (Robert L. Stewart) Date: Fri, 05 Mar 2004 10:57:03 -0600 Subject: [AccessD] Fwd: Re: filtercode permissions Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20040305105621.02a70270@pop3.highstream.net> Pedro, Here is what I sent directly to you yesterday. Robert >Date: Thu, 04 Mar 2004 15:25:14 -0600 >To: "Pedro Janssen" >From: "Robert L. Stewart" >Subject: Re: filtercode permissions > >I guess it is giving you that because you are replacing the SQL statement >in the query. To be honest, I refuse to deal with Access security. I >have never found a database where they could really justify the use of it >or were willing to maintain it for themselves. Now, to answer you >question. When you go to tools | options, you can show hidden and system >objects. After you do that, go to the security portion of the program and >see if you can set permissions for it there. Otherwise try setting the >permissions in the query design to run with owners permissions. > >Sorry that I cannot help you more, but security is not something I will >deal with...too complex. I would rather concentrate on good design rather >than security which the user is responsible for. > >Robert > >At 08:10 PM 3/4/2004 +0100, you wrote: >>Hello Stewart, >> >>ou helped me with the filtercode below. >>When entering he search value and clicking the commandbutton, >>everything works fine when logged in as person with administrator >>permissions. >>When logged in as user i ge an error: "Error 3033. You don't have >>permissions for Object MSysTables". >>When clicking the debugger, the following codeline is highlighted yellow: >>qdf.SQL = strSql & strWhere >> >>Do you know how this is possible or where i can't find MSysTables? >> >From all the hidden objects i changed allready the permissions, but no >>result. >> >>Thanks >> >>Pedro Janssen >> >> >> >> >>----- Original Message ----- >>From: "Robert L. Stewart" >>To: "Pedro Janssen" >>Sent: Monday, February 23, 2004 4:17 PM >>Subject: Re: need help with filter code >> >> >> > Pedro, >> > >> > Use this code and it will work smoothly. >> > >> > Robert >> > >> > >> > Dim db As DAO.Database >> > Dim qdf As DAO.QueryDef >> > Dim strSql As String >> > Dim strWhere As String >> > Set db = CurrentDb() >> > Set qdf = db.QueryDefs("sqry_AannZoeken_0") >> > ' verwijderd de ; van het einde van de query string >> > strSql = Mid(qdf.SQL, 1, Len(qdf.SQL) - 3) >> > strWhere = " WHERE (" >> > ' maakt de string voor de 6 aannemers waarin gezocht wordt >> > strWhere = strWhere & "(Aann1 Like '*" & Me!txtAannSearch & "*') OR" >> > strWhere = strWhere & "(Aann2 Like '*" & Me!txtAannSearch & "*') OR" >> > strWhere = strWhere & "(Aann3 Like '*" & Me!txtAannSearch & "*') OR" >> > strWhere = strWhere & "(Aann4 Like '*" & Me!txtAannSearch & "*') OR" >> > strWhere = strWhere & "(Aann5 Like '*" & Me!txtAannSearch & "*') OR" >> > strWhere = strWhere & "(Aann6 Like '*" & Me!txtAannSearch & "*'));" >> > Set qdf = db.QueryDefs("sqry_AannZoeken_1") >> > qdf.SQL = strSql & strWhere >> > db.Close >> > Set db = Nothing >> > DoCmd.Echo False >> > Dim strFormName As String >> > strFormName = Me.Name >> > Application.RunCommand acCmdClose >> > DoCmd.OpenForm strFormName >> > DoCmd.Echo True >> > >> > At 11:05 PM 2/21/2004 +0100, you wrote: >> > >Hello Robert, >> > > >> > >here is the stripped database. I'll only left the objects that >> > >are needed for the search. >> > > >> > >The search works in the query, but the form doesn't give the >> > >filtered results immediately. Only after closing and reopening >> > >the form. >> > > >> > >I tried to me.requery, me.refresch, form.requery, form.refresh, >> > >repaintobject in the code, but nothing works. Something >> > >i am doing wrong? >> > > >> > >Thanks for looking at it. >> > > >> > >Pedro Janssen >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > >----- Original Message ----- >> > >From: "Robert L. Stewart" >> > >To: >> > >Sent: Friday, February 20, 2004 7:09 PM >> > >Subject: Re: need help with filter code >> > > >> > > >> > > > Pedro, >> > > > >> > > > Can you send me a copy top look at >> > > > with the minimum of tables, queries, >> > > > and forms? >> > > > >> > > > Robert >> > > > >> > > > At 12:00 PM 2/20/2004 -0600, you wrote: >> > > > >Date: Fri, 20 Feb 2004 14:43:07 (MET) >> > > > >From: pedro at plex.nl >> > > > >Subject: Re: [AccessD] Re: need help with filter code >> > > > >To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com >> > > > >Cc: rl_stewart at highstream.net >> > > > >Message-ID: <200402201343.i1KDh7RM028562 at mailhostC.plex.net> >> > > > > >> > > > >Hello Robert, >> > > > > >> > > > >the form is based on the _1 query, and i allready places me.requery >>in >> > >the >> > > > >code , between the last line of code you gave me and the End Sub. >> > > > > >> > > > >Pedro Janssen >> > > > >> > > > >> > > > >> > >> > >> > From rl_stewart at highstream.net Fri Mar 5 11:02:17 2004 From: rl_stewart at highstream.net (Robert L. Stewart) Date: Fri, 05 Mar 2004 11:02:17 -0600 Subject: [AccessD] Re: IIF statement In-Reply-To: <200403051515.i25FFbM30225@databaseadvisors.com> Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20040305105853.029334c8@pop3.highstream.net> Oleg, The ELSE part is the FALSE portion. IIF( Date() = #03/06/2004#, "Today, "Tomorrow") If Date() = #03/06/2004# then "Today" ELSE "Tomorrow" End if Of course you can keep expanding it, but if I go beyond a simple IIF like the one above, I usually write a function for it so the logic is easier to follow later. Robert At 09:15 AM 3/5/2004 -0600, you wrote: >Date: Fri, 5 Mar 2004 09:25:36 -0500 (EST) >From: >Subject: [AccessD] IIF statement >To: >Message-ID: <36622.63.251.87.214.1078496736.squirrel at heck.bay9.com> >Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 > >Hey group, i am still trying to figure out how to do else in an IIF t-sql >statement > >this part works fine -- > > (IIf([Ron Data mid].DEPT In ("MSS","MID","SW","OW"),[Ron Data mid].[MS >Date Opened])) AS NewDateOpened, > >however i d'like every other department to get data from a differnt column >. How should i do it ? > > (IIf([Ron Data mid].DEPT In ("MSS","MID","SW","OW"),[Ron Data mid].[MS >Date Opened])ELSE [MID_Date_Opened]) AS NewDateOpened, > >oleg From rl_stewart at highstream.net Fri Mar 5 11:08:30 2004 From: rl_stewart at highstream.net (Robert L. Stewart) Date: Fri, 05 Mar 2004 11:08:30 -0600 Subject: [AccessD] Re: IIF statement In-Reply-To: <200403051515.i25FFbM30225@databaseadvisors.com> Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20040305110243.029e3200@pop3.highstream.net> If it is T-SQL, then you will have to use the CASE statement because there is no IIF in it. SELECT Dept, [MS Date Opened], MID_Date_Opened, CASE WHEN Dept = 'MSS' THEN [MS Date Opened] WHEN Dept = 'MID' THEN [MS Date Opened] WHEN Dept = 'SW' THEN [MS Date Opened] WHEN Dept = 'OW' THEN [MS Date Opened] ELSE MID_Date_Opened END AS NewDateOpened FROM [Ron Data mid] Oleg, you really need to get rid of the spaces in your column and table names!!!!!! Robert At 09:15 AM 3/5/2004 -0600, you wrote: >Date: Fri, 5 Mar 2004 15:35:07 +0100 >From: Gustav Brock >Subject: Re: [AccessD] IIF statement >To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > >Message-ID: <323397654.20040305153507 at cactus.dk> >Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii > >Hi Oleg > >Don't know much about T-SQL but how about this: > > (IIf([Ron Data mid].DEPT In ("MSS","MID","SW","OW"), > [Ron Data mid].[MS Date Opened]), [MID_Date_Opened]) > AS NewDateOpened, > > >/gustav From rl_stewart at highstream.net Fri Mar 5 11:15:48 2004 From: rl_stewart at highstream.net (Robert L. Stewart) Date: Fri, 05 Mar 2004 11:15:48 -0600 Subject: [AccessD] Re: Don't append if data exist In-Reply-To: <200403051654.i25Gs4M15463@databaseadvisors.com> Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20040305111439.02a7f3b8@pop3.highstream.net> Create a unique index on the two columns. This will keep a new record from being added. Robert At 10:54 AM 3/5/2004 -0600, you wrote: >Date: Fri, 5 Mar 2004 07:48:41 -0800 (PST) >From: Lonnie Johnson >Subject: [AccessD] Don't append if data exist >To: "'MS-ACCESS-L at lists.missouri.edu'" , > AccessDevelopers , ms_access > , "AccessD solving'" > >Message-ID: <20040305154841.28969.qmail at web20413.mail.yahoo.com> >Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii > > >I have a query that runs every morning. It appends records to a table if a >DISCHARGE DATE falls within the current month. Each day it will duplicate >records for a CLEINT. How do I NOT append a record if BOTH the CLIENT >NUMBER and the same DISCHARGE DATE exist. Note it is possible for a person >to be discharged twice in one month. That is ok as long as the dates are >different. > >I can't seem to think this through. > >Please help me think today From Oleg_123 at xuppa.com Fri Mar 5 11:54:41 2004 From: Oleg_123 at xuppa.com (Oleg_123 at xuppa.com) Date: Fri, 5 Mar 2004 12:54:41 -0500 (EST) Subject: [AccessD] Re: IIF statement In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.2.20040305110243.029e3200@pop3.highstream.net> References: <200403051515.i25FFbM30225@databaseadvisors.com> <5.1.0.14.2.20040305110243.029e3200@pop3.highstream.net> Message-ID: <57984.63.251.87.214.1078509281.squirrel@heck.bay9.com> Oleg, you really need to get rid of the spaces in your column and table names!!!!!! > > Robert > :)) I am not the one who comes up with those names, thats what management wants > > > At 09:15 AM 3/5/2004 -0600, you wrote: >>Date: Fri, 5 Mar 2004 15:35:07 +0100 >>From: Gustav Brock >>Subject: Re: [AccessD] IIF statement >>To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving >> >>Message-ID: <323397654.20040305153507 at cactus.dk> >>Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii >> >>Hi Oleg >> >>Don't know much about T-SQL but how about this: >> >> (IIf([Ron Data mid].DEPT In ("MSS","MID","SW","OW"), >> [Ron Data mid].[MS Date Opened]), [MID_Date_Opened]) >> AS NewDateOpened, >> >> >>/gustav > > > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com ----------------------------------------- Get Breaking News from CNN, ABC, NBC, CBS Now. http://www.xuppa.com/news/?link=webmail From Oleg_123 at xuppa.com Fri Mar 5 12:04:40 2004 From: Oleg_123 at xuppa.com (Oleg_123 at xuppa.com) Date: Fri, 5 Mar 2004 13:04:40 -0500 (EST) Subject: [AccessD] IIF statement - one more question In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.2.20040305110243.029e3200@pop3.highstream.net> References: <200403051515.i25FFbM30225@databaseadvisors.com> <5.1.0.14.2.20040305110243.029e3200@pop3.highstream.net> Message-ID: <28880.63.251.87.214.1078509880.squirrel@heck.bay9.com> (IIf((DEPT In ("MSS","SW","OW") ),W_Date_Closed,[MID Advice Closed])) AS NewDateClosed one more question on IIF statemnts, the one above works fine however if i try to add one more condition (and Disposition <> "REF MID") it ignores everything where dsposition field is NULL. shouls i write something like ((DEPT In ("MSS","SW","OW") and Disposition <> "REF MID" or Disposition isNULL) ? (IIf((DEPT In ("MSS","SW","OW") and Disposition <> "REF MID"),W_Date_Closed,[MID Advice Closed])) AS NewDateClosed ----------------------------------------- Get Breaking News from CNN, ABC, NBC, CBS Now. http://www.xuppa.com/news/?link=webmail From DWUTKA at marlow.com Fri Mar 5 12:25:09 2004 From: DWUTKA at marlow.com (DWUTKA at marlow.com) Date: Fri, 5 Mar 2004 12:25:09 -0600 Subject: [AccessD] Archives - no scroll bar Message-ID: <2F8793082E00D4119A1700B0D0216BF802227948@main2.marlow.com> Don't sweat it. It was a spam/pop-up blocker that was the issue. (I think...) Drew -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Jim Lawrence (AccessD) Sent: Thursday, March 04, 2004 8:08 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] Archives - no scroll bar Hi Drew: I will take close look...but never had any problems specifically; but things have been moved around and something may have been over-looked... Keep you posted. Jim -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of DWUTKA at marlow.com Sent: Wednesday, March 03, 2004 8:53 AM To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: RE: [AccessD] Archives - no scroll bar Okay, we need to ask Jim to look at his code, that is sending you to the Archives. He is probably using the open statement, and not implicitly including the scrollbars argument. I've seen that do funny things before, where one browser will work fine, and another goes goofy. (Even same type of browser...it just depends on the settings in the browser). Drew -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Bobby Heid Sent: Wednesday, March 03, 2004 8:15 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: [AccessD] Archives - no scroll bar Works correctly when I go directly there. Thanks, Bobby -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of DWUTKA at marlow.com Sent: Tuesday, March 02, 2004 6:20 PM To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: RE: [AccessD] Archives - no scroll bar Bobby, try going directly to the searchable archives. http://www.wolfwares.com/AccessD Do your search there. If you still have no scroll bars, let me know. If you do have them, then we need to let Jim Lawrence know. He may have used a script, that is opening my site in a new window, that doesn't have a flag set for scrollbars. Drew -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Bobby Heid Sent: Tuesday, March 02, 2004 1:48 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: [AccessD] Archives - no scroll bar Hi Bryan, I went to http://www.databaseadvisors.com and clicked on the archive link on the left side of the screen. I entered my search term at: http://www.databaseadvisors.com/archive/archive.htm I then entered my search term and clicked on the little "Go" button. This takes me to the AccessD Archives with a howling wolf in the upper left hand corner. Still no scrollbars this time either. Thanks, Bobby -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Bryan Carbonnell Sent: Tuesday, March 02, 2004 1:32 PM To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: RE: [AccessD] Archives - no scroll bar Not on databaseadvisors.com either. The archives there are not searchable yet. Bobby, where did you search from? Bryan Carbonnell bryan_carbonnell at cbc.ca >>> DWUTKA at marlow.com 02-Mar-04 1:22:23 PM >>> Not on the archives on my site. Just checked, and the scroll bars were there. Drew -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Bobby Heid Sent: Tuesday, March 02, 2004 7:52 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: [AccessD] Archives - no scroll bar Hey all, I was searching the archives for something and it had a lot of hits. But since there was no scroll bar, I had to press the tab key to move to each entry. I could not page down or use the mouse wheel either. This is in IE 6.0.28, windows 2k. Is this by design? Thanks, Bobby -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From DWUTKA at marlow.com Fri Mar 5 12:25:59 2004 From: DWUTKA at marlow.com (DWUTKA at marlow.com) Date: Fri, 5 Mar 2004 12:25:59 -0600 Subject: [AccessD] Drew - Age of the Archives? Message-ID: <2F8793082E00D4119A1700B0D0216BF802227949@main2.marlow.com> The Story of Drew's Life: The Hell years! LOL Sorry, couldn't resist! Drew -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Jim Lawrence (AccessD) Sent: Thursday, March 04, 2004 8:08 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] Drew - Age of the Archives? OT Hi Drew: You should write a book. What great material. Jim -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of DWUTKA at marlow.com Sent: Wednesday, March 03, 2004 8:47 AM To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: RE: [AccessD] Drew - Age of the Archives? Hmmmm, let's work backwards. I know that the archives stopping archiving this past August/September (2003), because that's when I separated from Tammy. I know the archives started using the 'Memo Field Indexing' in April of 2003, because that is when my apartment caught fire. I know I moved the archives from Marlow to my home in early January of 2003, because my DSL company went bankrupt and pulled the plug on their network then. I have no clue when I actually 'started' the archives, other then a wild guess at about 6 months before I moved it home. So I would say July or August of 2002. Drew (Interesting timeline, eh?) -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of John Bartow Sent: Tuesday, March 02, 2004 9:00 PM To: _DBA-Access Subject: [AccessD] Drew - Age of the Archives? Drew, Someone recently asked me how long I have been on this list. The only point of reference I could think of was about two years before I sent all my archives to Drew! So, Do you know when you put the archives together on your site? John "My memory is 40 years ahead of it time (I have a like I'm over 80)" Bartow -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From DWUTKA at marlow.com Fri Mar 5 12:27:05 2004 From: DWUTKA at marlow.com (DWUTKA at marlow.com) Date: Fri, 5 Mar 2004 12:27:05 -0600 Subject: [AccessD] OT - Hit counter for web pages Message-ID: <2F8793082E00D4119A1700B0D0216BF80222794A@main2.marlow.com> John, I have to ask. Are you running your own webserver? I thought you were. If you are running an IIS server, you can have it log to an Access database. No need for a hit counter, it will track everything for you! Drew -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of John W. Colby Sent: Thursday, March 04, 2004 9:46 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] OT - Hit counter for web pages So that I can see which pages are visited and how often. John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Stephen Hait Sent: Thursday, March 04, 2004 10:37 PM To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: Re: [AccessD] OT - Hit counter for web pages > Does anyone have a hit counter that I can just cut and paste code > into my web page? Shows my ignorance I know but I need something > that will do that for me. I need a hit counter for each page, > visible on the page itself. > > John W. Colby Just curious - why do you need a hit counter on every page of your web site? For your information? For the benefit of your visitors? Something else? Depending on your goals, there may be other alternatives. Regards, Stephen -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From rl_stewart at highstream.net Fri Mar 5 12:29:22 2004 From: rl_stewart at highstream.net (Robert L. Stewart) Date: Fri, 05 Mar 2004 12:29:22 -0600 Subject: [AccessD] Re: IIF statement In-Reply-To: <200403051800.i25I0XM29782@databaseadvisors.com> Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20040305122840.029ab9c0@pop3.highstream.net> Then give them a view/query that shows them what they ask for and do it the right way in the base tables. At 12:00 PM 3/5/2004 -0600, you wrote: >Date: Fri, 5 Mar 2004 12:54:41 -0500 (EST) >From: >Subject: Re: [AccessD] Re: IIF statement >To: >Message-ID: <57984.63.251.87.214.1078509281.squirrel at heck.bay9.com> >Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 > > Oleg, you really need to get rid of the spaces in your column and table > names!!!!!! > > > > Robert > > >:)) I am not the one who comes up with those names, thats what management >wants From DWUTKA at marlow.com Fri Mar 5 12:29:52 2004 From: DWUTKA at marlow.com (DWUTKA at marlow.com) Date: Fri, 5 Mar 2004 12:29:52 -0600 Subject: [AccessD] Export to Mutiple Excel Sheets Message-ID: <2F8793082E00D4119A1700B0D0216BF80222794B@main2.marlow.com> ADO works quite well too, just doesn't do the formatting. However, if you format a 'blank' Excel spreadsheet, that works well. Still doesn't handle 'conditional' formatting then, unless you put that into excel itself. Drew -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of J?rgen Welz Sent: Thursday, March 04, 2004 11:46 PM To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: Re: [AccessD] Export to Mutiple Excel Sheets Although DoCmd.TransferSpreadsheet will create a sheet for each named query or table that you export to a file at a target path, my predisposition to keep it simple and fast is circumscribed by constraints of reliability, error management, data validation and format control that dictate Excel automation. If you're just dumping a bunch of pure text and integers into a sheet, no problem. If you've got strings like '02E234', Excel will arbitrarily assume that it is a number in exponential notation and I've had that kind of issue bite me from time to time in the past. Using automation, you can insert sheets in a particular order, set column widths, row heights, sorts, filters, do conditional formatting, name ranges, set titles, headers, protection .... My export/imort needs have never been met by the docmd methods, but if all I needed was a portable emailable snapshot of predictably transferable data, I would consider those methods. Ciao J?rgen Welz Edmonton, Alberta jwelz at hotmail.com >From: >Reply-To: Access Developers discussion and problem >solving >To: >Subject: Re: [AccessD] Export to Mutiple Excel Sheets >Date: Thu, 4 Mar 2004 23:20:37 -0500 (EST) >MIME-Version: 1.0 >Received: from mc2-f12.hotmail.com ([65.54.190.19]) by mc2-s17.hotmail.com >with Microsoft SMTPSVC(5.0.2195.6824); Thu, 4 Mar 2004 20:22:01 -0800 >Received: from databaseadvisors.com ([209.135.140.44]) by >mc2-f12.hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC(5.0.2195.6824); Thu, 4 Mar 2004 >20:21:05 -0800 >Received: from databaseadvisors.com (databaseadvisors.com >[209.135.140.44])by databaseadvisors.com (8.11.6/8.11.6) with ESMTP id >i254KaM02761;Thu, 4 Mar 2004 22:20:36 -0600 >Received: from heck.bay9.com ([66.28.60.200])by databaseadvisors.com >(8.11.6/8.11.6) with ESMTP id i254KUM02705for >; Thu, 4 Mar 2004 22:20:31 -0600 >Received: from xuppa.com (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1])by >heck.bay9.com (Postfix) with SMTP id CCBDA5B500for >;Thu, 4 Mar 2004 23:20:37 -0500 (EST) >Received: from 24.187.36.171 (proxying for unknown)(SquirrelMail >authenticated user Oleg_123)by heck.bay9.com with HTTP; Thu, 4 Mar 2004 >23:20:37 -0500 (EST) >X-Message-Info: jl7Vrt/mfspXc7/cLcma3MAwjiq6mK2F >Message-ID: <3049.24.187.36.171.1078460437.squirrel at heck.bay9.com> >In-Reply-To: >References: >X-Mailer: SquirrelMail (version 1.2.10) >X-BeenThere: accessd at databaseadvisors.com >X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.4 >Precedence: list >List-Id: Access Developers discussion and problem >solving >List-Help: >List-Post: >List-Subscribe: >, >List-Archive: >List-Unsubscribe: >, >Errors-To: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com >Return-Path: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com >X-OriginalArrivalTime: 05 Mar 2004 04:21:05.0359 (UTC) >FILETIME=[46AA15F0:01C40269] > >Mark, > >I thought that its possible to specify sheets in export macro; is it so ? > > > Hello All, > > > > I need to build an export/import function into an A97 db...I want to > > export/import 2 query results...1 to each sheet in a new excel workbook. > > Any suggestions/directions to head? > > > > Thanks, > > > > Mark A. Matte > > > > _________________________________________________________________ > > Fast. Reliable. Get MSN 9 Dial-up - 3 months for the price of 1! > > (Limited-time Offer) > > http://click.atdmt.com/AVE/go/onm00200361ave/direct/01/ > > > > -- > > _______________________________________________ > > AccessD mailing list > > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > >----------------------------------------- >Get Breaking News from CNN, ABC, NBC, CBS Now. >http://www.xuppa.com/news/?link=webmail > > >-- >_______________________________________________ >AccessD mailing list >AccessD at databaseadvisors.com >http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd >Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com _________________________________________________________________ MSN Premium: Up to 11 personalized e-mail addresses and 2 months FREE* http://join.msn.com/?pgmarket=en-ca&page=byoa/prem&xAPID=1994&DI=1034&SU=htt p://hotmail.com/enca&HL=Market_MSNIS_Taglines -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From rl_stewart at highstream.net Fri Mar 5 12:30:59 2004 From: rl_stewart at highstream.net (Robert L. Stewart) Date: Fri, 05 Mar 2004 12:30:59 -0600 Subject: [AccessD] Re: IIF statement Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20040305123008.02981a90@pop3.highstream.net> Then give them a view/query that shows them what they ask for and do it the right way in the base tables. Oh yeah, one more thing. NO is a valid answer and they will usually go with that when you give them an explanation. At 12:00 PM 3/5/2004 -0600, you wrote: >Date: Fri, 5 Mar 2004 12:54:41 -0500 (EST) >From: >Subject: Re: [AccessD] Re: IIF statement >To: >Message-ID: <57984.63.251.87.214.1078509281.squirrel at heck.bay9.com> >Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 > > Oleg, you really need to get rid of the spaces in your column and table > names!!!!!! > > > > Robert > > >:)) I am not the one who comes up with those names, thats what management >wants From lists at theopg.com Fri Mar 5 12:32:37 2004 From: lists at theopg.com (MarkH) Date: Fri, 5 Mar 2004 18:32:37 -0000 Subject: [AccessD] Re: IIF statement In-Reply-To: <57984.63.251.87.214.1078509281.squirrel@heck.bay9.com> Message-ID: <000001c402e0$3c476be0$298e6351@netboxxp> If "management" knows what it wants then there is usually some sort of misunderstanding :O) mark -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Oleg_123 at xuppa.com Sent: 05 March 2004 17:55 To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: Re: [AccessD] Re: IIF statement Oleg, you really need to get rid of the spaces in your column and table names!!!!!! > > Robert > :)) I am not the one who comes up with those names, thats what management wants > > > At 09:15 AM 3/5/2004 -0600, you wrote: >>Date: Fri, 5 Mar 2004 15:35:07 +0100 >>From: Gustav Brock >>Subject: Re: [AccessD] IIF statement >>To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving >> >>Message-ID: <323397654.20040305153507 at cactus.dk> >>Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii >> >>Hi Oleg >> >>Don't know much about T-SQL but how about this: >> >> (IIf([Ron Data mid].DEPT In ("MSS","MID","SW","OW"), >> [Ron Data mid].[MS Date Opened]), [MID_Date_Opened]) >> AS NewDateOpened, >> >> >>/gustav > > > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com ----------------------------------------- Get Breaking News from CNN, ABC, NBC, CBS Now. http://www.xuppa.com/news/?link=webmail -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From bheid at appdevgrp.com Fri Mar 5 12:46:39 2004 From: bheid at appdevgrp.com (Bobby Heid) Date: Fri, 5 Mar 2004 13:46:39 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Archives - no scroll bar In-Reply-To: <916187228923D311A6FE00A0CC3FAA307B80A8@ADGSERVER> Message-ID: <916187228923D311A6FE00A0CC3FAA305BB30B@ADGSERVER> It appeared to be that, but when I re-enabled it, it continued working. It seems to not bother anyone else, so I agree, no need to put yourself through a lot of work in addition to all of the work already done for the archives. Thanks, Bobby -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of DWUTKA at marlow.com Sent: Friday, March 05, 2004 1:25 PM To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: RE: [AccessD] Archives - no scroll bar Don't sweat it. It was a spam/pop-up blocker that was the issue. (I think...) Drew -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Jim Lawrence (AccessD) Sent: Thursday, March 04, 2004 8:08 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] Archives - no scroll bar Hi Drew: I will take close look...but never had any problems specifically; but things have been moved around and something may have been over-looked... Keep you posted. Jim -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of DWUTKA at marlow.com Sent: Wednesday, March 03, 2004 8:53 AM To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: RE: [AccessD] Archives - no scroll bar Okay, we need to ask Jim to look at his code, that is sending you to the Archives. He is probably using the open statement, and not implicitly including the scrollbars argument. I've seen that do funny things before, where one browser will work fine, and another goes goofy. (Even same type of browser...it just depends on the settings in the browser). Drew -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Bobby Heid Sent: Wednesday, March 03, 2004 8:15 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: [AccessD] Archives - no scroll bar Works correctly when I go directly there. Thanks, Bobby -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of DWUTKA at marlow.com Sent: Tuesday, March 02, 2004 6:20 PM To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: RE: [AccessD] Archives - no scroll bar Bobby, try going directly to the searchable archives. http://www.wolfwares.com/AccessD Do your search there. If you still have no scroll bars, let me know. If you do have them, then we need to let Jim Lawrence know. He may have used a script, that is opening my site in a new window, that doesn't have a flag set for scrollbars. Drew -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Bobby Heid Sent: Tuesday, March 02, 2004 1:48 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: [AccessD] Archives - no scroll bar Hi Bryan, I went to http://www.databaseadvisors.com and clicked on the archive link on the left side of the screen. I entered my search term at: http://www.databaseadvisors.com/archive/archive.htm I then entered my search term and clicked on the little "Go" button. This takes me to the AccessD Archives with a howling wolf in the upper left hand corner. Still no scrollbars this time either. Thanks, Bobby -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Bryan Carbonnell Sent: Tuesday, March 02, 2004 1:32 PM To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: RE: [AccessD] Archives - no scroll bar Not on databaseadvisors.com either. The archives there are not searchable yet. Bobby, where did you search from? Bryan Carbonnell bryan_carbonnell at cbc.ca >>> DWUTKA at marlow.com 02-Mar-04 1:22:23 PM >>> Not on the archives on my site. Just checked, and the scroll bars were there. Drew -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Bobby Heid Sent: Tuesday, March 02, 2004 7:52 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: [AccessD] Archives - no scroll bar Hey all, I was searching the archives for something and it had a lot of hits. But since there was no scroll bar, I had to press the tab key to move to each entry. I could not page down or use the mouse wheel either. This is in IE 6.0.28, windows 2k. Is this by design? Thanks, Bobby -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From Oleg_123 at xuppa.com Fri Mar 5 13:11:02 2004 From: Oleg_123 at xuppa.com (Oleg_123 at xuppa.com) Date: Fri, 5 Mar 2004 14:11:02 -0500 (EST) Subject: [AccessD] Re: IIF statement In-Reply-To: <000001c402e0$3c476be0$298e6351@netboxxp> References: <57984.63.251.87.214.1078509281.squirrel@heck.bay9.com> <000001c402e0$3c476be0$298e6351@netboxxp> Message-ID: <23590.63.251.87.214.1078513862.squirrel@heck.bay9.com> They do not know what they want as a final picture, but as for details (such as column naemes, table names etc) they want long descriptive names with spaces (luckily they don't see how I name command buttons and things like that) > If "management" knows what it wants then there is usually some sort of > misunderstanding :O) > > mark > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of > Oleg_123 at xuppa.com > Sent: 05 March 2004 17:55 > To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com > Subject: Re: [AccessD] Re: IIF statement > > > Oleg, you really need to get rid of the spaces in your column and table > names!!!!!! >> >> Robert >> > :)) I am not the one who comes up with those names, thats what > management wants > > > >> >> >> At 09:15 AM 3/5/2004 -0600, you wrote: >>>Date: Fri, 5 Mar 2004 15:35:07 +0100 >>>From: Gustav Brock >>>Subject: Re: [AccessD] IIF statement >>>To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving >>> >>>Message-ID: <323397654.20040305153507 at cactus.dk> >>>Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii >>> >>>Hi Oleg >>> >>>Don't know much about T-SQL but how about this: >>> >>> (IIf([Ron Data mid].DEPT In ("MSS","MID","SW","OW"), >>> [Ron Data mid].[MS Date Opened]), [MID_Date_Opened]) >>> AS NewDateOpened, >>> >>> >>>/gustav >> >> >> -- >> _______________________________________________ >> AccessD mailing list >> AccessD at databaseadvisors.com >> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd >> Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > ----------------------------------------- > Get Breaking News from CNN, ABC, NBC, CBS Now. > http://www.xuppa.com/news/?link=webmail > > > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com ----------------------------------------- Get Breaking News from CNN, ABC, NBC, CBS Now. http://www.xuppa.com/news/?link=webmail From dw-murphy at cox.net Fri Mar 5 13:17:18 2004 From: dw-murphy at cox.net (Doug Murphy) Date: Fri, 5 Mar 2004 11:17:18 -0800 Subject: [AccessD] Deployment In-Reply-To: <01c401c40226$b007f1e0$6801a8c0@HAL9002> Message-ID: <000201c402e6$79dc4970$8500a8c0@CX615377a> Hi Rocky, No I have not used the XP Developer packaging functionality. I did use the package and deployment capability in Office 97 when our product was using Access 97. After much research and making all the patches to fix known problems with the packaging wizard I had no problems with our deployments. I guess the question is what are you going to do your final packaging and deployment in. You might as well use that to get experience with it and find any problems early on. Doug Douglas Murphy Murphy's Creativity (619) 334-5121 doug at murphyscreativity.com www.murphyscreativity.com -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Rocky Smolin - Beach Access Software Sent: Thursday, March 04, 2004 12:24 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Deployment Doug: Have you ever used the XP deployment itself? Rocky ----- Original Message ----- From: "Doug Murphy" To: "'Access Developers discussion and problem solving'" Sent: Thursday, March 04, 2004 9:58 AM Subject: RE: [AccessD] Deployment > Hi Rocky, > > I have done several install packages using XP Deveoper, Wise and > Sagekey and the package is usually a little less than 60 Meg. If your > users have high speed connections this isn't too bad to download. > Could be painfull over a dial up connection. > > Doug > > Douglas Murphy > Murphy's Creativity > (619) 334-5121 > doug at murphyscreativity.com > www.murphyscreativity.com > > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Rocky > Smolin > - Beach Access Software > Sent: Wednesday, March 03, 2004 7:56 AM > To: AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > Subject: [AccessD] Deployment > > > Dear List: > > I've got an app I'm developing for the consumer market and we're in > beta testing now. It's in A2K so all the betas have to have Access. > > Eventually it will have to be packaged as a run-time. But at that > point it will be shrink-wrapped. > > In the short term we could expand our beta testing universe with a > run-time. So I'm trying to figure out the best way to do this. > > The problem AFAIK with the run-times is their size. Right now we can > email the mde to a beta tester and it's about 3-4MB. If I put up a > run-time on my web site, beta testers are not likely to know how to do > an FTP program. > > I suppose I could make a password protected folder on my web site, and > get my web site developer to make the run-time downloadable or > installable from the site. I don't know how to do this. Maybe she > does. > > I've got A97 developer's edition, Wise Installer, and the Sagekey > script for A97. But I don't think that the app can be converted back > to A97. In any event, the total A97/Wise/Sagekey package runs to about > 70MB IIRC. > > I could buy A2002 or A2003 if they've got a better deployment > capability than they've had in the past. > > What are your recommendations, suggestions, thoughts? > > Thanks in advance, > > Rocky Smolin > Beach Access Software > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From rusty.hammond at cpiqpc.com Fri Mar 5 14:54:05 2004 From: rusty.hammond at cpiqpc.com (rusty.hammond at cpiqpc.com) Date: Fri, 5 Mar 2004 14:54:05 -0600 Subject: [AccessD] Analyze it with Excel Message-ID: <8301C8A868251E4C8ECD3D4FFEA40F8A0811A957@cpixchng-1.cpiqpc.net> I'm exporting an Access 97 report to excel. This report has two grouping levels. Management likes the feature of expanding/collapsing the groups in the excel spreadsheet but there is one annoying thing. The names of the fields in each group footer (which are totals) are showing up in the spreadsheet and making the totals for a column offset from the data that makes up the total. Has anyone come up with a way to suppress those printing? TIA Rusty Hammond From davesharpe2 at cox.net Fri Mar 5 17:02:26 2004 From: davesharpe2 at cox.net (Dave Sharpe) Date: Fri, 5 Mar 2004 18:02:26 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Export to Mutiple Excel Sheets References: Message-ID: <00c601c40305$ed3a3070$dd2f0a44@bcsext6137> Mark Here is some code I use. ExportFileName is the xls, it remains the same. ExportTableName , is for the query name ( request and shipment in the example ) ==================================== 'export the data ExportTableName = "bcs_requests_to_shipments" ExportFileName = "J:\SHARED\bcs_acct\" & dasDate & _ "bcs_requests_to_shipments" DoCmd.TransferSpreadsheet acExport, 8, ExportTableName, ExportFileName, True, "" ExportTableName = "bcs_orders_to_shipments" ExportFileName = "J:\SHARED\bcs_acct\" & dasDate & _ "bcs_orders_to_shipments" DoCmd.TransferSpreadsheet acExport, 8, ExportTableName, ExportFileName, True, "" Dave ----- Original Message ----- From: "Mark A Matte" To: Sent: Thursday, March 04, 2004 9:51 PM Subject: [AccessD] Export to Mutiple Excel Sheets Hello All, I need to build an export/import function into an A97 db...I want to export/import 2 query results...1 to each sheet in a new excel workbook. Any suggestions/directions to head? Thanks, Mark A. Matte _________________________________________________________________ Fast. Reliable. Get MSN 9 Dial-up - 3 months for the price of 1! (Limited-time Offer) http://click.atdmt.com/AVE/go/onm00200361ave/direct/01/ -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From stuart at lexacorp.com.pg Fri Mar 5 17:56:53 2004 From: stuart at lexacorp.com.pg (Stuart McLachlan) Date: Sat, 06 Mar 2004 09:56:53 +1000 Subject: [AccessD] Re: IIF statement In-Reply-To: <23590.63.251.87.214.1078513862.squirrel@heck.bay9.com> References: <000001c402e0$3c476be0$298e6351@netboxxp> Message-ID: <4049A065.9488.C3473@localhost> On 5 Mar 2004 at 14:11, Oleg_123 at xuppa.com wrote: > They do not know what they want as a final picture, but as for details > (such as column naemes, table names etc) they want long descriptive names > with spaces (luckily they don't see how I name command buttons and things > like that) > Why do "Management" ever get to see table and field names? That's asking for trouble. -- Lexacorp Ltd http://www.lexacorp.com.pg Information Technology Consultancy, Software Development,System Support. From jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com Fri Mar 5 18:19:12 2004 From: jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com (John W. Colby) Date: Fri, 5 Mar 2004 19:19:12 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Re: IIF statement In-Reply-To: <4049A065.9488.C3473@localhost> Message-ID: LOL. This is a concept that can only be taught through experience. Management NEVER tells me what to name things (unless it is to use a codified naming convention to match their enterprise programming model), but may have free reign in the user interface.If they want to get down to the level of telling me what to name tables they are going to be trouble I don't even want to deal with and I make a hasty exit. John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Stuart McLachlan Sent: Friday, March 05, 2004 6:57 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problemsolving Subject: RE: [AccessD] Re: IIF statement On 5 Mar 2004 at 14:11, Oleg_123 at xuppa.com wrote: > They do not know what they want as a final picture, but as for details > (such as column naemes, table names etc) they want long descriptive names > with spaces (luckily they don't see how I name command buttons and things > like that) > Why do "Management" ever get to see table and field names? That's asking for trouble. -- Lexacorp Ltd http://www.lexacorp.com.pg Information Technology Consultancy, Software Development,System Support. -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From cfoust at infostatsystems.com Fri Mar 5 18:28:28 2004 From: cfoust at infostatsystems.com (Charlotte Foust) Date: Fri, 5 Mar 2004 16:28:28 -0800 Subject: [AccessD] Re: IIF statement Message-ID: Amen to that! I've had clients try that on, but I usually remind them that *they* are paying *me* to know what I'm doing, and unless they make their livings developing databases, I'd appreciate it if they would let me get on with it. What comes out should be what they want. What lies underneath is strictly my domain. Charlotte Foust -----Original Message----- From: John W. Colby [mailto:jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com] Sent: Friday, March 05, 2004 4:19 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] Re: IIF statement LOL. This is a concept that can only be taught through experience. Management NEVER tells me what to name things (unless it is to use a codified naming convention to match their enterprise programming model), but may have free reign in the user interface.If they want to get down to the level of telling me what to name tables they are going to be trouble I don't even want to deal with and I make a hasty exit. John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Stuart McLachlan Sent: Friday, March 05, 2004 6:57 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problemsolving Subject: RE: [AccessD] Re: IIF statement On 5 Mar 2004 at 14:11, Oleg_123 at xuppa.com wrote: > They do not know what they want as a final picture, but as for details > (such as column naemes, table names etc) they want long descriptive > names with spaces (luckily they don't see how I name command buttons > and things like that) > Why do "Management" ever get to see table and field names? That's asking for trouble. -- Lexacorp Ltd http://www.lexacorp.com.pg Information Technology Consultancy, Software Development,System Support. -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From lister at actuarial-files.com Fri Mar 5 19:42:18 2004 From: lister at actuarial-files.com (Ralf Lister) Date: Fri, 5 Mar 2004 21:42:18 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Date formats Message-ID: <005401c4031c$596d4f00$7c976bce@ralf> Hello, when I have this date #06/03/2004# and run the Month function I get "Month(#06/03/2004#) = 6". Thats correct for the United States! But as I am in Bolivia I need "Month(#06/03/2004#) = 3". I logged on to "Regional Settings" in the Control Panel and changed in the leftmost tab the two dropdown-boxes to "Bolivia". But it didn't help at all. Can someone help me in achieving "Month(#06/03/2004#) = 3" ? Saludos Ralf From jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com Fri Mar 5 19:56:14 2004 From: jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com (John W. Colby) Date: Fri, 5 Mar 2004 20:56:14 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Framework Discussion - Classes - What are they? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: OK, so what is a class and why do we want to use them? A class is a module in Visual basic, but they are a special type of module. Classes are used to hold all of the code and data required to describe some object, in other words implement the behaviors and properties of that object. What sets a class apart from any other module in Visual Basic is that a class is loaded in it's entirety and may be loaded more than once. In fact it will be loaded once for each instance of the object being modeled. It is useful to use the data normalization model when designing classes, i.e. a table models an object and should to the best of our ability never hold data about two or more different objects. Likewise classes should model a single object and we should avoid having a class hold data or implement behaviors of two or more different objects. You might have a "Bank" class, but that bank class should then use classes for the banking objects such as accounts, customers, checks, deposits and so forth. A single class that tries to describe the bank and accounts and customers and ... is bound to be a mess. So, if a class describes a piece of fruit it may have properties for color, size, shape, weight, flavor etc. Until it is loaded a class can describe any piece of fruit that matches or can be described using the properties available in the class. It really doesn't describe anything however until it is loaded and these properties are filled with data, at which time a specific piece of fruit is described. This apple is red, is 3.5 inches in circumference, is round etc. That class instance then describes one specific piece of fruit. If you have a basket of apples and you need to manipulate them using classes, you will load a new instance for every apple in the basket. If you have a basket of mixed fruit, you load two instances that describe apples, an instance for a banana and an instance for each of three pears. A class is generally loaded multiple times specifically to describe multiple instances of some object. However this isn't a requirement. A class may be intended to only be loaded one time, but a class is still used by the developer simply for the encapsulation it provides. By putting all of the code and variables in one place, a class can now be used as an object that knows how to do something. For example my framework has a framework class. This class is only loaded once, it would serve no purpose to load it again. However the class knows how to read setup SysVars out of a table to configure itself, knows how to load other service classes such as an MD5 encryption class, knows how to count objects that the application is loading. So by building a single variable in a regular module, running a function that sets that variable = to an instance of my class, and initializing the class instance, a whole chain of events fires off loading other classes, and setting my application up for business. When I am done, I can then call methods of my framework class which perform services for me; zipping and unzipping files, encrypting and decrypting files, and in general just acting as the application manager. I am not yet writing a book on object oriented programming so in order to keep these emails a reasonable size I am going to leave my explanation of what a class is to the above. Summarized, a class is a special type of module which holds all of the code and data to describe or model the properties and behaviors of one instance of an object, and which is loaded one time for each instance of the object that we need to do something with. John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com From ssharkins at bellsouth.net Fri Mar 5 20:04:24 2004 From: ssharkins at bellsouth.net (Susan Harkins) Date: Fri, 5 Mar 2004 21:04:24 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Framework Discussion - Classes - What are they? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <20040306020424.PXRJ4640.imf23aec.mail.bellsouth.net@SUSANONE> JC -- I'd like to suggest that we move this series to MTM -- we can send a link each time there's a new one and even run the text in the body of the email as well. But that way, the information would be available longterm -- and via the newsletter links and not through just searching the archives. Sound reasonable, good? Of course, do as you like, but I think having these on MTM would be a good thing. Susan H. OK, so what is a class and why do we want to use them? A class is a module in Visual basic, but they are a special type of module. Classes are used to hold all of the code and data required to describe some object, in other words implement the behaviors and properties of that object. What sets a class apart from any other module in Visual Basic is that a class is loaded in it's entirety and may be loaded more than once. In fact it will be loaded once for each instance of the object being modeled. It is useful to use the data normalization model when designing classes, i.e. a table models an object and should to the best of our ability never hold data about two or more different objects. Likewise classes should model a single object and we should avoid having a class hold data or implement behaviors of two or more different objects. You might have a "Bank" class, but that bank class should then use classes for the banking objects such as accounts, customers, checks, deposits and so forth. A single class that tries to describe the bank and accounts and customers and ... is bound to be a mess. So, if a class describes a piece of fruit it may have properties for color, size, shape, weight, flavor etc. Until it is loaded a class can describe any piece of fruit that matches or can be described using the properties available in the class. It really doesn't describe anything however until it is loaded and these properties are filled with data, at which time a specific piece of fruit is described. This apple is red, is 3.5 inches in circumference, is round etc. That class instance then describes one specific piece of fruit. If you have a basket of apples and you need to manipulate them using classes, you will load a new instance for every apple in the basket. If you have a basket of mixed fruit, you load two instances that describe apples, an instance for a banana and an instance for each of three pears. A class is generally loaded multiple times specifically to describe multiple instances of some object. However this isn't a requirement. A class may be intended to only be loaded one time, but a class is still used by the developer simply for the encapsulation it provides. By putting all of the code and variables in one place, a class can now be used as an object that knows how to do something. For example my framework has a framework class. This class is only loaded once, it would serve no purpose to load it again. However the class knows how to read setup SysVars out of a table to configure itself, knows how to load other service classes such as an MD5 encryption class, knows how to count objects that the application is loading. So by building a single variable in a regular module, running a function that sets that variable = to an instance of my class, and initializing the class instance, a whole chain of events fires off loading other classes, and setting my application up for business. When I am done, I can then call methods of my framework class which perform services for me; zipping and unzipping files, encrypting and decrypting files, and in general just acting as the application manager. I am not yet writing a book on object oriented programming so in order to keep these emails a reasonable size I am going to leave my explanation of what a class is to the above. Summarized, a class is a special type of module which holds all of the code and data to describe or model the properties and behaviors of one instance of an object, and which is loaded one time for each instance of the object that we need to do something with. John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From papparuff at comcast.net Fri Mar 5 20:06:25 2004 From: papparuff at comcast.net (John Ruff) Date: Fri, 5 Mar 2004 18:06:25 -0800 Subject: [AccessD] Don't append if data exist In-Reply-To: <20040305154841.28969.qmail@web20413.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <000001c4031f$a2ad6a80$6401a8c0@papparuff> Make the Discharge Date and the Client Number the Primary Key John V. Ruff - The Eternal Optimist :-) Always Looking For Contract Opportunities Home: 253.588.2139 Cell: 253.307/2947 9306 Farwest Dr SW Lakewood, WA 98498 "Commit to the Lord whatever you do, and your plans will succeed." Proverbs 16:3 -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Lonnie Johnson Sent: Friday, March 05, 2004 7:49 AM To: 'MS-ACCESS-L at lists.missouri.edu'; AccessDevelopers; ms_access; AccessD solving' Subject: [AccessD] Don't append if data exist I have a query that runs every morning. It appends records to a table if a DISCHARGE DATE falls within the current month. Each day it will duplicate records for a CLEINT. How do I NOT append a record if BOTH the CLIENT NUMBER and the same DISCHARGE DATE exist. Note it is possible for a person to be discharged twice in one month. That is ok as long as the dates are different. I can't seem to think this through. Please help me think today Lonnie Johnson ProDev, Professional Development of MS Access Databases Visit me at ==> http://www.prodev.us --------------------------------- Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Search - Find what you're looking for faster. -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From stuart at lexacorp.com.pg Fri Mar 5 20:21:12 2004 From: stuart at lexacorp.com.pg (Stuart McLachlan) Date: Sat, 06 Mar 2004 12:21:12 +1000 Subject: [AccessD] Date formats In-Reply-To: <005401c4031c$596d4f00$7c976bce@ralf> Message-ID: <4049C238.18798.90542E@localhost> On 5 Mar 2004 at 21:42, Ralf Lister wrote: > Hello, > > when I have this date #06/03/2004# and run the Month function I get "Month(#06/03/2004#) = 6". Thats correct for the United States! > But as I am in Bolivia I need "Month(#06/03/2004#) = 3". > I logged on to "Regional Settings" in the Control Panel and changed in the leftmost tab the two dropdown-boxes to "Bolivia". But it didn't help at all. > Can someone help me in achieving "Month(#06/03/2004#) = 3" ? > The "#"s make it an SQL formatted date which is always interpreted as mm/dd/yyyy Try Month("06/03/2004") instead. That will respect your regional settings. -- Lexacorp Ltd http://www.lexacorp.com.pg Information Technology Consultancy, Software Development,System Support. From jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com Fri Mar 5 21:28:58 2004 From: jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com (John W. Colby) Date: Fri, 5 Mar 2004 22:28:58 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Framework Discussion - Classes - What are they? In-Reply-To: <20040306020424.PXRJ4640.imf23aec.mail.bellsouth.net@SUSANONE> Message-ID: I intend to move them to M-M however M-M only publishes once every two months. John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Susan Harkins Sent: Friday, March 05, 2004 9:04 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: [AccessD] Framework Discussion - Classes - What are they? JC -- I'd like to suggest that we move this series to MTM -- we can send a link each time there's a new one and even run the text in the body of the email as well. But that way, the information would be available longterm -- and via the newsletter links and not through just searching the archives. Sound reasonable, good? Of course, do as you like, but I think having these on MTM would be a good thing. Susan H. OK, so what is a class and why do we want to use them? A class is a module in Visual basic, but they are a special type of module. Classes are used to hold all of the code and data required to describe some object, in other words implement the behaviors and properties of that object. What sets a class apart from any other module in Visual Basic is that a class is loaded in it's entirety and may be loaded more than once. In fact it will be loaded once for each instance of the object being modeled. It is useful to use the data normalization model when designing classes, i.e. a table models an object and should to the best of our ability never hold data about two or more different objects. Likewise classes should model a single object and we should avoid having a class hold data or implement behaviors of two or more different objects. You might have a "Bank" class, but that bank class should then use classes for the banking objects such as accounts, customers, checks, deposits and so forth. A single class that tries to describe the bank and accounts and customers and ... is bound to be a mess. So, if a class describes a piece of fruit it may have properties for color, size, shape, weight, flavor etc. Until it is loaded a class can describe any piece of fruit that matches or can be described using the properties available in the class. It really doesn't describe anything however until it is loaded and these properties are filled with data, at which time a specific piece of fruit is described. This apple is red, is 3.5 inches in circumference, is round etc. That class instance then describes one specific piece of fruit. If you have a basket of apples and you need to manipulate them using classes, you will load a new instance for every apple in the basket. If you have a basket of mixed fruit, you load two instances that describe apples, an instance for a banana and an instance for each of three pears. A class is generally loaded multiple times specifically to describe multiple instances of some object. However this isn't a requirement. A class may be intended to only be loaded one time, but a class is still used by the developer simply for the encapsulation it provides. By putting all of the code and variables in one place, a class can now be used as an object that knows how to do something. For example my framework has a framework class. This class is only loaded once, it would serve no purpose to load it again. However the class knows how to read setup SysVars out of a table to configure itself, knows how to load other service classes such as an MD5 encryption class, knows how to count objects that the application is loading. So by building a single variable in a regular module, running a function that sets that variable = to an instance of my class, and initializing the class instance, a whole chain of events fires off loading other classes, and setting my application up for business. When I am done, I can then call methods of my framework class which perform services for me; zipping and unzipping files, encrypting and decrypting files, and in general just acting as the application manager. I am not yet writing a book on object oriented programming so in order to keep these emails a reasonable size I am going to leave my explanation of what a class is to the above. Summarized, a class is a special type of module which holds all of the code and data to describe or model the properties and behaviors of one instance of an object, and which is loaded one time for each instance of the object that we need to do something with. John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com Fri Mar 5 21:33:52 2004 From: jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com (John W. Colby) Date: Fri, 5 Mar 2004 22:33:52 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Framework Discussion - Classes - Why would we use them In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Now that I have briefly described a class, lets get down to using them. First of all, every form has or can have a built in class, one instance of which is loaded when the form loads. This class holds events for the form itself such as the Open, Close and AfterUpdate event. It can also be used to set properties of the form itself. For any class, the ME keyword is used to manipulate that instance of that class. In other words, if you need to set the Caption of a form from code running in the form, ME.Caption = "Some text" allows you to do so. Since the "code behind form" resides in the form's class, any Access developer who writes code in the form is already using classes. The fact that the class is part of the form is definitely nice in that you can export that form to another database and any code in the form's module (class) goes with it. Unfortunately it also creates maintenance headaches if you write very complex code in that class and then you need that same code in another form. Many developers simply cut and paste the code into the next form and be done with it. What happens though if the code has a bug? Now you have to open both forms and fix the bug in both forms. What happens if you exported the form to another project? Now you have to open the forms in both projects and edit the code to fix the problem. Recognizing this as an issue, some developers develop libraries and place such code in their own library. This works very well (and is what I do). Now if for example the OnEnter of a text box needs to call a function, the function is in the library and both forms just call the same function in the library. If there's a bug, fix it in the library and everything that uses that function gets fixed at once. Much better. However we still have the issue of the event stub itself. In order for the combo's OnEnter to call a method, that event has to cause code to run somewhere. That somewhere for 99% of Access programmers is in the form's class of the form where the combo exists. There is absolutely nothing wrong with this approach, but it can get terribly messy when a large form has 10 tabs and 80 controls on it, each control firing 3 or 4 different events, plus half a dozen events for the form, plus 30 functions for general processing plus... well I'm sure you get the picture. Now just trying to work in the form becomes a nightmare, paging up and down yards of code trying to find things. This in fact is one of the major problems with any of the Office Applications (Word, Excel, Access, Powerpoint) is that controls do not have their own class like the form does. Therefore the form's class serves as the controls class. Remember I said in the last email that classes should model one object? Already we are running into a class that is modeling a form and also modeling many different types of controls. Hmmm..... The following examples demonstrate how to change the background color of text boxes as the user moves through the controls. Just open the relevent form and start hitting the tab key watching the cursor as you do. For this example see frmPeopleClasseless: Option Compare Database Option Explicit Private Const mclngBackColor As Long = 16777088 'A pretty blue color to set the text box back color to Private mlngBackColorOrigFName As Long Private mlngBackColorOrigLName Private Sub txtFName_Enter() mlngBackColorOrigFName = txtFName.BackColor 'When we enter the text box, save the original back color txtFName.BackColor = mclngBackColor 'Set the back color to our favorite color End Sub Private Sub txtFName_Exit(Cancel As Integer) txtFName.BackColor = mlngBackColorOrigFName 'Set the back color to the original color End Sub Private Sub txtLName_Enter() mlngBackColorOrigLName = txtLName.BackColor 'When we enter the text box, save the original back color txtLName.BackColor = mclngBackColor 'Set the back color to our favorite color End Sub Private Sub txtLName_Exit(Cancel As Integer) txtLName.BackColor = mlngBackColorOrigLName 'Set the back color to the original color End Sub This code when placed in a form with a pair of text boxes called txtFName and txtLName causes the back color of these controls to switch from whatever they currently are top cyan when they get the focus (OnEnter) and back to their original color when they lose the focus (OnExit). That's kind of cool but look at what we are already running into. We need a variable at the top of the form for EACH control that we want to perform this behavior for, to save the old back color. It's ok if we only have one or two controls but what if we have 20 or 40? Can you say PITP (Patuty)? Further, we not only need the variables to store the stuff, but we also need to set up the OnEnter and OnExit subs for each control we want to do this. Multiply this times 20 or 40 and that's a REAL PITP. Fortunately we can build a class that models a specific control, lets say a text box. I am going to keep this simple so that you can see the workings, and add in the nice troubleshooting stuff I mentioned later. This is in dclsCtlTextBox. The following code represents a class for a text box, simple but marginally useful. Explanation IN-LINE. Option Compare Database Option Explicit Notice that we have ONE variable to hold the back color, the constant for the back color of our choice, and a place to store a pointer to a specific Private WithEvents mtxt As TextBox 'Dimension a text box Withevents Private Const mstrEventProcedure = "[Event Procedure]" 'A constant to hold the string [Event Procedure] Private Const mclngBackColor As Long = 16777088 'A pretty blue color to set the text box back color to Private mlngBackColorOrig As Long 'A place to store the original back color Next we have an init function where we are passed in a pointer to a specific text box. We save this pointer to the text box to our private variable in the class header. We also set the OnEnter and ONExit properties of that control to the string [Event Procedure]. 'The init function of every class "initializes" the class Function Init(ltxt As TextBox) 'Pass in a pointer to a specific control Set mtxt = ltxt 'Save that pointer to a private variable here in the class mtxt.OnEnter = mstrEventProcedure 'Set the OnEnter property of the control to [Event Procedure] mtxt.OnExit = mstrEventProcedure 'Do the same for the OnExit End Function We have a term function where we release or cleanup the pointer to the text box control ' 'The term function of every class cleans up all pointers to objects stored in our class ' Function Term() Set mtxt = Nothing 'Set the pointer to the control to nothing End Function And finally we have the same event stubs for OnEnter and OnExit for our specific control ' 'These are the event stubs for the control's OnEnter and OnExit events ' Private Sub mtxt_Enter() mlngBackColorOrig = mtxt.BackColor 'When we enter the text box, save the original back color mtxt.BackColor = mclngBackColor 'Set the back color to our favorite color End Sub Private Sub mtxt_Exit(Cancel As Integer) mtxt.BackColor = mlngBackColorOrig 'When we exit the control, set the back color back to the original color End Sub Having done that we are ready to instantiate this class once for each text box we want to control. I'm going to use the actual code form my demo database which handles FOUR text boxes. This is code in the form frmPeople2. The form's header now looks like: Option Compare Database Option Explicit Notice that we dimension the class four times, each with a distinct name. Private fdclsCtlTextBoxFName As dclsCtlTextBox Private fdclsCtlTextBoxLName As dclsCtlTextBox Private fdclsCtlTextBoxAddr1 As dclsCtlTextBox Private fdclsCtlTextBoxAddr2 As dclsCtlTextBox The form's Open event initializes each of these class instances: Private Sub Form_Open(Cancel As Integer) Set fdclsCtlTextBoxFName = New dclsCtlTextBox fdclsCtlTextBoxFName.Init txtFName Set fdclsCtlTextBoxLName = New dclsCtlTextBox fdclsCtlTextBoxLName.Init txtLName Set fdclsCtlTextBoxAddr1 = New dclsCtlTextBox fdclsCtlTextBoxAddr1.Init txtAddr1 Set fdclsCtlTextBoxAddr2 = New dclsCtlTextBox fdclsCtlTextBoxAddr2.Init txtAddr2 End Sub And the form's Close cleans up behind us: Private Sub Form_Close() fdclsCtlTextBoxFName.Term Set fdclsCtlTextBoxFName = Nothing fdclsCtlTextBoxLName.Term Set fdclsCtlTextBoxLName = Nothing fdclsCtlTextBoxAddr1.Term Set fdclsCtlTextBoxAddr1 = Nothing fdclsCtlTextBoxAddr2.Term Set fdclsCtlTextBoxAddr2 = Nothing End Sub That's it folks. Notice that the individual event stubs for the controls themselves are missing! The reason of course is that the text box class itself is sinking those events right inside of that class so we don't need event stubs here. Now I hear you already saying "yea, but there's still a lot of code just to do the init and cleanup". True, but there are also tricks that we can use. See FrmPeople3. The first is to use a class factory function such as: Private fdclsCtlTextBoxFName As dclsCtlTextBox Private fdclsCtlTextBoxLName As dclsCtlTextBox Private fdclsCtlTextBoxAddr1 As dclsCtlTextBox Private fdclsCtlTextBoxAddr2 As dclsCtlTextBox Private Sub Form_Open(Cancel As Integer) ClassFactory fdclsCtlTextBoxFName, txtFName ClassFactory fdclsCtlTextBoxLName, txtLName ClassFactory fdclsCtlTextBoxAddr1, txtAddr1 ClassFactory fdclsCtlTextBoxAddr2, txtAddr2 End Sub Private Sub Form_Close() ClsDestroy fdclsCtlTextBoxFName ClsDestroy fdclsCtlTextBoxLName ClsDestroy fdclsCtlTextBoxAddr1 ClsDestroy fdclsCtlTextBoxAddr2 End Sub Function ClassFactory(ldclsCtlTextBox As dclsCtlTextBox, txt As TextBox) Set ldclsCtlTextBox = New dclsCtlTextBox ldclsCtlTextBox.Init txt End Function Function ClsDestroy(ldclsCtlTextBox As dclsCtlTextBox) ldclsCtlTextBox.Term Set ldclsCtlTextBox = Nothing End Function Even better we could use a collection to hold the pointers to our control classes which eliminates the "new variable per class" syndrome as well as much of the cleanup code. See frmPeople4 Option Compare Database Option Explicit Private colClasses As Collection Private Sub Form_Open(Cancel As Integer) Set colClasses = New Collection ClassFactory txtFName ClassFactory txtLName ClassFactory txtAddr1 ClassFactory txtAddr2 End Sub Private Sub Form_Close() ClsDestroy End Sub Function ClassFactory(txt As TextBox) Dim ldclsCtlTextBox As dclsCtlTextBox Set ldclsCtlTextBox = New dclsCtlTextBox ldclsCtlTextBox.Init txt colClasses.Add ldclsCtlTextBox, txt.Name End Function Function ClsDestroy() Dim obj As Object For Each obj In colClasses obj.Term Set obj = Nothing Next obj Set colClasses = Nothing End Function Even BETTER... we could build a form class that did all this for us!!! But that is for another day. Go to my site and click on C2DbFW3G to go to a page I have set up for the downloads. John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com From ssharkins at bellsouth.net Fri Mar 5 21:44:01 2004 From: ssharkins at bellsouth.net (Susan Harkins) Date: Fri, 5 Mar 2004 22:44:01 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Framework Discussion - Classes - What are they? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <20040306034358.QYOI4640.imf23aec.mail.bellsouth.net@SUSANONE> We can publish these as your work -- that's not a problem John. Susan H. I intend to move them to M-M however M-M only publishes once every two months. From bheygood at abestsystems.com Fri Mar 5 22:34:03 2004 From: bheygood at abestsystems.com (Bob Heygood) Date: Fri, 5 Mar 2004 20:34:03 -0800 Subject: [AccessD] Re: Pocket PC In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.2.20040305103858.00ba62b8@pop3.highstream.net> Message-ID: I have a client using a cheap shareware program, see link below. Seems to work ok. I sent her an mdb and she was able to synch with it and use in the field. http://www.snapfiles.com/get/pocketpc/dataonrun.html Let us all know how it works for you. bob heygood -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Robert L. Stewart Sent: Friday, March 05, 2004 8:39 AM To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: [AccessD] Re: Pocket PC Do a search for Pendragon on google. At 12:57 AM 3/5/2004 -0600, you wrote: >Date: Thu, 4 Mar 2004 18:42:31 -0600 >From: >Subject: [AccessD] Pocket PC >To: >Message-ID: <200403050043.i250hhM10421 at databaseadvisors.com> >Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" > >Hi, >I have a MS Access XP app which i need to synchronize with a Pocket PC. >I have no idea how i can establish that. Is there some software out there to >design simple forms on a Pocket PC y synchroinze it with Access? >Thanks to everybody. >Rudolf F. Vanek -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From accessd at shaw.ca Fri Mar 5 22:20:12 2004 From: accessd at shaw.ca (Jim Lawrence (AccessD)) Date: Fri, 05 Mar 2004 20:20:12 -0800 Subject: [AccessD] Building up a framework In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Hi John: Would you be interested in going one step further by allowing the posts on the Framework to be re-submitted to DBA site? Jim -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of John W. Colby Sent: Thursday, March 04, 2004 7:48 PM To: AccessD Subject: [AccessD] Building up a framework I am preparing a series of articles for Many-to-Many on building a framework. I have a very basic framework started with the clsFW class, dclsFrm and dclsTextBox, as well as Sysvars and a couple of service classes, ZIP and Unzip. I will throw in a few more like some encryption classes. AFAICT this much is functioning, I can load a form, the form scanner finds all text boxes and loads a class for each, the SysVars function etc. Many to Many only publishes every 2 months or so. A series of articles will take 6 months to a year to get out. There is going to be a LOT of code, and some pretty in-depth discussions of collections, Classes / setup, teardown and debugging, Withevents, service classes and all the other stuff that goes into my framework. The end result will be a fully functioning if still rather basic application framework. My question to the group is, should I hold a discussion of the framework, how it is built, why I do this stuff and so forth on this list, or take it off to another list for only those interested? John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com Fri Mar 5 22:56:58 2004 From: jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com (John W. Colby) Date: Fri, 5 Mar 2004 23:56:58 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Building up a framework In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Jim, I will be working with Susan to clean them up and publish them in m-m. John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Jim Lawrence (AccessD) Sent: Friday, March 05, 2004 11:20 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] Building up a framework Hi John: Would you be interested in going one step further by allowing the posts on the Framework to be re-submitted to DBA site? Jim -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of John W. Colby Sent: Thursday, March 04, 2004 7:48 PM To: AccessD Subject: [AccessD] Building up a framework I am preparing a series of articles for Many-to-Many on building a framework. I have a very basic framework started with the clsFW class, dclsFrm and dclsTextBox, as well as Sysvars and a couple of service classes, ZIP and Unzip. I will throw in a few more like some encryption classes. AFAICT this much is functioning, I can load a form, the form scanner finds all text boxes and loads a class for each, the SysVars function etc. Many to Many only publishes every 2 months or so. A series of articles will take 6 months to a year to get out. There is going to be a LOT of code, and some pretty in-depth discussions of collections, Classes / setup, teardown and debugging, Withevents, service classes and all the other stuff that goes into my framework. The end result will be a fully functioning if still rather basic application framework. My question to the group is, should I hold a discussion of the framework, how it is built, why I do this stuff and so forth on this list, or take it off to another list for only those interested? John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From ayishakca at yahoo.ca Fri Mar 5 23:08:57 2004 From: ayishakca at yahoo.ca (Ayisha) Date: Sat, 6 Mar 2004 08:08:57 +0300 Subject: [AccessD] Form In Background References: <618EB4D6DDCDD3119B0A00508B6FD37A0CB0D226@cntexchange.pgdp.usec.com><002d01c401a7$45398420$02d15dd4@ali> <006e01c40237$36e683b0$48619a89@DDICK> Message-ID: <008c01c40339$31f27910$91d574d4@ali> Thanks Darren Dick for your support. Ayisha ----- Original Message ----- From: "Darren DICK" To: "Access Developers discussion and problem solving" Sent: Friday, March 05, 2004 1:22 AM Subject: Re: [AccessD] Form In Background > Ayisha > > Try something like > DoCmd.OpenForm "frmMyLinkedForm " ,acNormal ,,,,acHidden > if you open the form from a button > or try Me.Visible = false in the OnLoad event of the form in question > If you do either of these make sure you have a way to make the form visible again > Eg on some other form have a button that runs something like Forms!frmMyLinkedForm.visible = true > HTH > > Darren > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Ayisha" > To: "Access Developers discussion and problem solving" > Sent: Thursday, March 04, 2004 4:03 PM > Subject: [AccessD] Form In Background > > > > Is there any way that i can hide a linked form in background???? > > > > Ayisha > > -- > > _______________________________________________ > > AccessD mailing list > > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From gustav at cactus.dk Sat Mar 6 03:54:03 2004 From: gustav at cactus.dk (Gustav Brock) Date: Sat, 6 Mar 2004 10:54:03 +0100 Subject: [AccessD] OT: Friday Humour, Alpha-Access comparison In-Reply-To: <1431681986.20031003174250@cactus.dk> References: <1431681986.20031003174250@cactus.dk> Message-ID: <918212138.20040306105403@cactus.dk> Hi All These keep coming. A bit late (it's Saturday here) but if you have developed several applications in Access 1 and probably many more the following 10 years and still haven't figured out how to write a filter statement or a custom dialog/input box, rescue is at hand: http://newsletter.alphasoftware.com/0040302.htm For the defence of Randy, who wrote this tralala blurb, he didn't believe in it that much to bother inserting a title! /gustav > Hi Charlotte > I guess not. How on Earth could he/she have accomplished that? > For a further laugh - revealing another heavy competitor to Alpha, > browse this: > http://newsletter.alphasoftware.com/0031005.htm > Note close to the bottom this gem which which proves that Alt+F11 was > disabled during the "test": > "Build scripts or access a full programming language to process data > and build user fully customized professional user interfaces." > /gustav >> ROTFL Unbiased comparison indeed! I wonder if the author ever built an >> Access database. >> Charlotte Foust >> -----Original Message----- >> From: Gustav Brock [mailto:gustav at cactus.dk] >> Sent: Friday, October 03, 2003 7:22 AM >> To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com >> Subject: [AccessD] OT: Friday Humour, Alpha-Access comparison >> Hi all >> Stumbled over all the missing features of Access? >> Well, you are not alone. Browse this unbiased comparison: >> http://newsletter.alphasoftware.com/0031004.htm >> /gustav From gustav at cactus.dk Sat Mar 6 03:06:31 2004 From: gustav at cactus.dk (Gustav Brock) Date: Sat, 6 Mar 2004 10:06:31 +0100 Subject: [AccessD] Date formats In-Reply-To: <005401c4031c$596d4f00$7c976bce@ralf> References: <005401c4031c$596d4f00$7c976bce@ralf> Message-ID: <1905360728.20040306100631@cactus.dk> Hi Ralf > when I have this date #06/03/2004# and run the Month function I get "Month(#06/03/2004#) = 6". Thats correct for the United States! > But as I am in Bolivia I need "Month(#06/03/2004#) = 3". > I logged on to "Regional Settings" in the Control Panel and changed in the leftmost tab the two dropdown-boxes to "Bolivia". But it didn't help at all. > Can someone help me in achieving "Month(#06/03/2004#) = 3" ? Well, Month(#06/03/2004#) is 6 if you write this in code. However, if it is typed in the GUI of, say, the query designer, it is 3 because Access tries to interpret your local settings. But, if you switch to the SQL code view, it is written #03/06/2004#. You will have to adopt to this. /gustav From joeget at vgernet.net Sat Mar 6 05:31:03 2004 From: joeget at vgernet.net (John Eget) Date: Sat, 6 Mar 2004 06:31:03 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] report graph to power point Message-ID: <00c701c4036e$85a0cb90$67c2f63f@Desktop> is there a way to export a graph from a report to a power point slide? John From mwp.reid at qub.ac.uk Sat Mar 6 06:53:39 2004 From: mwp.reid at qub.ac.uk (Martin Reid) Date: Sat, 6 Mar 2004 12:53:39 -0000 Subject: [AccessD] OT: Friday Humour, Alpha-Access comparison References: <1431681986.20031003174250@cactus.dk> <918212138.20040306105403@cactus.dk> Message-ID: <000d01c4037a$c4997020$1b02a8c0@MARTINREID> Need to get a default value from one table into a form bound to another table. Whatever we do it will not get the value. Tryed Dlookup etc and still no joy. Anyone any ideas? Martin From jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com Sat Mar 6 07:24:26 2004 From: jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com (John W. Colby) Date: Sat, 6 Mar 2004 08:24:26 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Offtopic: Word, macros and applying styles to paragraphs Message-ID: I am working on formatting existing word documents to use styles from a document template. I can select text and then click on the style, select the style and apply that style to the selected text. I'm wondering if Word has a "macro" system that I could use to apply hotkeys to macro styles so that I can just tap hotkeys to apply the styles to the paragraphs selected? John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com From gustav at cactus.dk Sat Mar 6 07:37:22 2004 From: gustav at cactus.dk (Gustav Brock) Date: Sat, 6 Mar 2004 14:37:22 +0100 Subject: [AccessD] Default value from external table In-Reply-To: <000d01c4037a$c4997020$1b02a8c0@MARTINREID> References: <1431681986.20031003174250@cactus.dk> <918212138.20040306105403@cactus.dk> <000d01c4037a$c4997020$1b02a8c0@MARTINREID> Message-ID: <2321611475.20040306143722@cactus.dk> Hi Martin Setting the DefaultValue of the textbox or combo should do. Remember, setting it from code, it must be a string. If in doubt, set the default value manually, then read it out: ? Forms!frmYourForm!txtYourTextbox.DefaultValue /gustav > Need to get a default value from one table into a form bound to another > table. Whatever we do it will not get the value. Tryed Dlookup etc and still > no joy. From mwp.reid at qub.ac.uk Sat Mar 6 08:04:03 2004 From: mwp.reid at qub.ac.uk (Martin Reid) Date: Sat, 6 Mar 2004 14:04:03 -0000 Subject: [AccessD] Default value from external table References: <1431681986.20031003174250@cactus.dk><918212138.20040306105403@cactus.dk><000d01c4037a$c4997020$1b02a8c0@MARTINREID> <2321611475.20040306143722@cactus.dk> Message-ID: <000901c40383$e3b69790$1b02a8c0@MARTINREID> Thanks Gustav Got it. Martin ----- Original Message ----- From: "Gustav Brock" To: "Access Developers discussion and problem solving" Sent: Saturday, March 06, 2004 1:37 PM Subject: Re: [AccessD] Default value from external table > Hi Martin > > Setting the DefaultValue of the textbox or combo should do. > Remember, setting it from code, it must be a string. > > If in doubt, set the default value manually, then read it out: > > ? Forms!frmYourForm!txtYourTextbox.DefaultValue > > /gustav > > > > Need to get a default value from one table into a form bound to another > > table. Whatever we do it will not get the value. Tryed Dlookup etc and still > > no joy. > > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > From jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com Sat Mar 6 15:23:48 2004 From: jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com (John W. Colby) Date: Sat, 6 Mar 2004 16:23:48 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Your favorite control behavior Message-ID: I am taking suggestions for control behaviors that you have found useful and have programmed controls to perform in the past. For example I program the back color of combos, lists and text boxes to change to a given color as they get the focus, and back to their original color as they lose the focus. This helps to avoid the "where's the cursor" questions. Another example, I program the double-click of a combo to open a form to allow editing the data in the table that the combo pulls from. In addition, if a combo is programmed to perform this behavior, I dynamically set its label's back color to a specific color. this is a visual cue that "this combo has the dbl-click behavior activated" What kinds of things do you have your controls do? John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com From lister at actuarial-files.com Sat Mar 6 09:28:40 2004 From: lister at actuarial-files.com (Ralf Lister) Date: Sat, 6 Mar 2004 11:28:40 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Date formats References: <4049C238.18798.90542E@localhost> Message-ID: <00e801c403c5$2cd39180$69976bce@ralf> Thanks to Stuart and Gustav. Now my Date functions work as expected. Saludos Ralf ----- Original Message ----- From: "Stuart McLachlan" To: "Access Developers discussion and problemsolving" Sent: Friday, March 05, 2004 10:21 PM Subject: Re: [AccessD] Date formats > On 5 Mar 2004 at 21:42, Ralf Lister wrote: > > > Hello, > > > > when I have this date #06/03/2004# and run the Month function I get "Month(#06/03/2004#) = 6". Thats correct for the United States! > > But as I am in Bolivia I need "Month(#06/03/2004#) = 3". > > I logged on to "Regional Settings" in the Control Panel and changed in the leftmost tab the two dropdown-boxes to "Bolivia". But it didn't help at all. > > Can someone help me in achieving "Month(#06/03/2004#) = 3" ? > > > > The "#"s make it an SQL formatted date which is always interpreted as mm/dd/yyyy > > Try Month("06/03/2004") instead. That will respect your regional > settings. > > > > > -- > Lexacorp Ltd > http://www.lexacorp.com.pg > Information Technology Consultancy, Software Development,System Support. > > > > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > From jwelz at hotmail.com Sat Mar 6 16:14:51 2004 From: jwelz at hotmail.com (Jürgen Welz) Date: Sat, 06 Mar 2004 15:14:51 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] Your favorite control behavior Message-ID: I use a light blue background for combos which are limited to list and for controls that are not editable by users even though most developers use use a grey. I almost never have a 'New' record button on forms and permit all manner of new records to be entered by a not in list. For some kinds of lookups, it makes good sense to limit entries to the list and I find that the users like knowing that they can type in a new entry. Some of my subforms look like list boxes so list boxes have the same locked light blue color. Editable textboxes and combos with not in list capability use a very light grey and turn white when they get focus. I am a big fan of keyboard shortcuts so I use keydown a fair bit with textboxes that have attached labels using an underlined character. This emulates the effect that you get with VB where you can place a label in the tab order and use an accellerator key combination to get focus to the next control in the tab order that is capable of receiving focus. One other thing I do quite a bit is to replace command buttons with labels because of focus issues, especially when the command button is on a parent form to perform an operation on a sub form beneath it with a currently selected record. You can change the look of the button on mouse down and up so it appears to operate like a conventional button and you get more control over the button's appearance. One thing I've been playing with recently is getting the look that you get when a mouse passes over a toolbar and using etched label buttons to give a look and feel more akin to Java. If there was an event, 'Mouse is no longer over', I would be implementing this everywhere but as it is, there's a fair bit of code required to make this work effectively. Ciao J?rgen Welz Edmonton, Alberta jwelz at hotmail.com >From: "John W. Colby" > >I am taking suggestions for control behaviors that you have found useful >and >have programmed controls to perform in the past. > >For example I program the back color of combos, lists and text boxes to >change to a given color as they get the focus, and back to their original >color as they lose the focus. This helps to avoid the "where's the cursor" >questions. > >Another example, I program the double-click of a combo to open a form to >allow editing the data in the table that the combo pulls from. In >addition, >if a combo is programmed to perform this behavior, I dynamically set its >label's back color to a specific color. this is a visual cue that "this >combo has the dbl-click behavior activated" > >What kinds of things do you have your controls do? > >John W. Colby >www.ColbyConsulting.com _________________________________________________________________ MSN Premium with Virus Guard and Firewall* from McAfee? Security : 2 months FREE* http://join.msn.com/?pgmarket=en-ca&page=byoa/prem&xAPID=1994&DI=1034&SU=http://hotmail.com/enca&HL=Market_MSNIS_Taglines From jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com Sat Mar 6 16:22:51 2004 From: jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com (John W. Colby) Date: Sat, 6 Mar 2004 17:22:51 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Framework Discussion - Classes - Supervisors Message-ID: We have discussed why we would use classes and seen demos of text box code running natively in a form, then the equivalent written as a control class for a text box. We then looked at these classes dimensioned in the form header and instantiated directly and using class factory functions. The next step is what I call the supervisor class. Supervisor classes are classes that load and ?supervise? other classes. Notice that the form?s built in class is doing a lot of work setting up these control classes. It will only get worse as we add new control type classes for combo boxes, check boxes etc. and then try to load a class instance for each of 50 controls. All of the code we saw in frmPeople4 will have to be replicated over and over in each form you want to build. So why don?t we build a form class of our own and place this code in our class. Then we just set up and tear down that supervisor class in each form. Basically all we do is transfer the code we have in the form into a class, with an Init() and Term() method to call for setting up and tearing down our new class form. OK, so the code for the new dclsFrm (form class) can be seen in dclsFrm in the demo database and looks like this (comments in-line): The dclsFrm form class (Supervisor) Option Compare Database Option Explicit By now you should be getting used to class headers. Here we dimension the Event Procedure string, the collection and the form variable. Notice that we are declaring the form variable WithEvents meaning that this class will be sinking form events inside this class Private Const mstrEventProcedure = "[Event Procedure]" 'A constant to hold the string [Event Procedure] Private mcolClasses As Collection Private WithEvents mfrm As Form We haven?t seen this yet. All classes may have an Initialize and Terminate event which are run automatically as the class opens. It is roughly the equivalent of a form?s Open and Close events. I use them to run the set statements for all objects that the class will use, just to get these statements grouped together and run. Private Sub Class_Initialize() Set mcolClasses = New Collection End Sub In the Terminate of the class we call the classes Term() method which the developer writes. Private Sub Class_Terminate() Term End Sub The init simply takes the passed in pointer to the form and stores it in our local variable. We now have a pointer to the form so we can call FindControls to iterate the controls control collection and load the control classes. And finally, set the form?s OnClose property so that we can sink the Close event in this class. Function Init(lfrm As Form) Set mfrm = lfrm FindControls mfrm.OnClose = mstrEventProcedure End Function Term calls ClsDestroy which cleans up the control classes, then sets out pointer to the form to nothing. Forgetting to clean up pointers to collections and controls is one of the prime reasons for memory leaks and Access failing to close. Function Term() On Error Resume Next ClsDestroy Set mfrm = Nothing End Function The form?s Close event will transfer control to this event sink, where we call this class? term event to clean up our pointers Private Sub mfrm_Close() Term End Sub The class factory we saw in ?Classes ? why would we use them?. It simply creates an instance for the text box passed in and stores the pointer to that class in the collection. Function ClassFactory(txt As TextBox) Dim ldclsCtlTextBox As dclsCtlTextBox Set ldclsCtlTextBox = New dclsCtlTextBox ldclsCtlTextBox.Init txt mcolClasses.Add ldclsCtlTextBox, txt.Name End Function Class destroy cleans out the control class collection, calling term of each control class then destroying the pointer to that class. Function ClsDestroy() Dim obj As Object On Error Resume Next For Each obj In mcolClasses obj.Term Set obj = Nothing Next obj Set mcolClasses = Nothing End Function FindControls is the major enhancement that the dclsFrm brings to the table. This function iterates the forms controls collection. It examines each control for its control type and instantiates a class instance for each control. The type of control class instantiated depends on the control?s controltype property. So far we only have a control class for text boxes but we will soon be adding more control classes for combos, check boxes, lists and so forth. This function will then be used to load those other control classes as well. ' 'THIS FUNCTION SEARCHES THE FORM FOR CONTROLS OF VARIOUS TYPES. ' 'The framework will build functionality using controls with consistant naming. We can 'find these controls simply by searching the form's control collection looking for 'controls named something specific. In other cases we might want to load a class 'to handle a specific type of control - perhaps a text box class or a dependent combo 'class. ' 'This function will be used to do the search through the form's control collection 'looking for controls that we know how to handle and setting up the hooks to handle 'those controls ' 'Parameters: 'Created by: Colby Consulting 'Created : 4/26/98 10:23:44 AM Private Sub FindControls() On Error GoTo Err_FindControls Dim ctl As Control Dim intIndex As Integer Dim col As Collection Set col = New Collection For Each ctl In mfrm.Controls 'Find each control in the form's control collection With ctl Select Case .ControlType 'Determine it's type Case acTextBox 'Find all text boxes and load class to change backcolor mcolClasses.Add New dclsCtlTextBox, .Name mcolClasses(.Name).Init ctl Case acSubform Case acTabCtl 'tab pages are handled in the tab control Case acOptionGroup Case acCheckBox Case acOptionButton Case acCommandButton Case acToggleButton Case acListBox Case acComboBox Case Else End Select End With NextCtl: Next ctl Exit_FindControls: On Error Resume Next Set ctl = Nothing Exit Sub Err_FindControls: Select Case Err Case 0 'insert Errors you wish to ignore here Resume Next Case Else 'All other errors will trap Beep MsgBox Err.Description, , "Error in function Forms.FindControls" Resume Exit_FindControls End Select Resume 0 'FOR TROUBLESHOOTING End Sub The form?s built-in class That takes care of the dclsFrm form class. To use this class we modify our form?s built-in class as follows ? See frmPeople6: Option Compare Database Option Explicit Dimension our new form class Public fdclsFrm As dclsFrm Set it and initialize it, passing a pointer to the form Private Sub Form_Open(Cancel As Integer) Set fdclsFrm = New dclsFrm fdclsFrm.Init Me End Sub If you remember the first form with the control handling built into the form ?s class you can see we have dropped the total code resident in our form by a huge amount. Additionally, should we have 1 or 100 controls on the form, the generic processing code on the form doesn?t expand by even a single line of code. Now your form can concentrate on functionality that is specific to the application rather on functionality that is generic to all applications. The dclsFrm is one of a handful of supervisor classes we will look at as we work on the framework. We now have what could be called a minimal framework. We have a form class that you can build upon to hang form functionality on, and we have one control class dctlTextBox that demonstrates the concept of the control scanner in dclsFrm loading control classes for us automatically. This class can have additional functionality added to it to allow it to automatically perform other generic functionality for our applications. In fact we will be adding more functionality to both of these classes in addition to adding other controls classes. More importantly though, we need to get a framework foundation established, which will take the shape of another supervisor class which I call clsFW. Note: frmPeople5 uses the form?s built-in class? Close event to cleanup the pointer to dclsFrm which causes a page fault. I just wanted to point out that you can?t do this in Access 2K, and that this is a bug in Access that was fixed in AccessXP. John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com From artful at rogers.com Sun Mar 7 00:40:09 2004 From: artful at rogers.com (Arthur Fuller) Date: Sat, 6 Mar 2004 22:40:09 -0800 Subject: [AccessD] OT: Friday Humour, Alpha-Access comparison In-Reply-To: <000d01c4037a$c4997020$1b02a8c0@MARTINREID> Message-ID: <016801c4040f$0a28c0c0$6501a8c0@rock> I started to experiment but got flummoxed due to the lack of precise detail. How and when do you want to grab the value? New or existing record on the bound form? Human intervention or not? Based on input into some other control on the form? Arthur -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Martin Reid Sent: Saturday, March 06, 2004 4:54 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] OT: Friday Humour, Alpha-Access comparison Need to get a default value from one table into a form bound to another table. Whatever we do it will not get the value. Tryed Dlookup etc and still no joy. Anyone any ideas? Martin -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From artful at rogers.com Sun Mar 7 00:48:35 2004 From: artful at rogers.com (Arthur Fuller) Date: Sat, 6 Mar 2004 22:48:35 -0800 Subject: [AccessD] Your favorite control behavior In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <016901c40410$36662c30$6501a8c0@rock> This is a little bit off topic, perhaps. One of the most frustrating things for me about Access is the repetitive stuff I have to do to fields of a similar type. For example, I might want every date field in every form to have a given format and input mask, or make every yes/no in a table have the checkbox style, or every occurrence of CustomerID to (save the one in the Customers table) have the same combo-box characteristics including the query, column widths etc. Currently what I do, and it's admittedly lame, is create a worktable containing all this stuff and then paste from there into the tables as I need the various fields. Really bugs me to do it this way -- especially if I change my mind later -- then I have to visit every occurrence of field x and update its new spec. Really bugs me! I realize that you're talking about classes not table specs, and I know from previous discussions that I do a LOT more work at this level than you do, and I don't really want to have that discussion again. I'm just wondering if anyone has a brilliant method of specifying the characteristics of a field in every table where it occurs. Arthur -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of John W. Colby Sent: Saturday, March 06, 2004 1:24 PM To: AccessD Subject: [AccessD] Your favorite control behavior I am taking suggestions for control behaviors that you have found useful and have programmed controls to perform in the past. For example I program the back color of combos, lists and text boxes to change to a given color as they get the focus, and back to their original color as they lose the focus. This helps to avoid the "where's the cursor" questions. Another example, I program the double-click of a combo to open a form to allow editing the data in the table that the combo pulls from. In addition, if a combo is programmed to perform this behavior, I dynamically set its label's back color to a specific color. this is a visual cue that "this combo has the dbl-click behavior activated" What kinds of things do you have your controls do? John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From artful at rogers.com Sun Mar 7 00:53:53 2004 From: artful at rogers.com (Arthur Fuller) Date: Sat, 6 Mar 2004 22:53:53 -0800 Subject: [AccessD] Your favorite control behavior In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <016a01c40410$f433f490$6501a8c0@rock> I have a function called aaNotInList() which takes the same parms as the NotInList function and adds two new ones -- the name of the form to open when adding an item, and the "human" name of said entity, the latter just to pretty up the messagebox that comes up. The functon asks if you want to add a new "XXX" (4th parm) and if so opens the specified form, which uses the typical code to hide itself on OK and close itself on Cancel. Then the function does the usual "add to list and accept the value" and closes the form. It works great but I still have to type in that line of code every time I need one. Not that one line of code is a major hassle, I guess, but can you think of a class-based way to do this? It might be more fun to do it that way. Arthur -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of John W. Colby Sent: Saturday, March 06, 2004 1:24 PM To: AccessD Subject: [AccessD] Your favorite control behavior I am taking suggestions for control behaviors that you have found useful and have programmed controls to perform in the past. For example I program the back color of combos, lists and text boxes to change to a given color as they get the focus, and back to their original color as they lose the focus. This helps to avoid the "where's the cursor" questions. Another example, I program the double-click of a combo to open a form to allow editing the data in the table that the combo pulls from. In addition, if a combo is programmed to perform this behavior, I dynamically set its label's back color to a specific color. this is a visual cue that "this combo has the dbl-click behavior activated" What kinds of things do you have your controls do? John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From wdhindman at bellsouth.net Sat Mar 6 22:05:00 2004 From: wdhindman at bellsouth.net (William Hindman) Date: Sat, 6 Mar 2004 23:05:00 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Your favorite control behavior References: <016901c40410$36662c30$6501a8c0@rock> Message-ID: <002d01c403f9$5ca9d2f0$6101a8c0@dejpolsys> ...I use Speed Ferret from Black Moshannon to automate such tasks ...:) William Hindman "My idea of an agreeable person is a person who agrees with me." Disraeli ----- Original Message ----- From: "Arthur Fuller" To: "'Access Developers discussion and problem solving'" Sent: Sunday, March 07, 2004 1:48 AM Subject: RE: [AccessD] Your favorite control behavior > This is a little bit off topic, perhaps. One of the most frustrating > things for me about Access is the repetitive stuff I have to do to > fields of a similar type. For example, I might want every date field in > every form to have a given format and input mask, or make every yes/no > in a table have the checkbox style, or every occurrence of CustomerID to > (save the one in the Customers table) have the same combo-box > characteristics including the query, column widths etc. Currently what I > do, and it's admittedly lame, is create a worktable containing all this > stuff and then paste from there into the tables as I need the various > fields. Really bugs me to do it this way -- especially if I change my > mind later -- then I have to visit every occurrence of field x and > update its new spec. Really bugs me! > > I realize that you're talking about classes not table specs, and I know > from previous discussions that I do a LOT more work at this level than > you do, and I don't really want to have that discussion again. I'm just > wondering if anyone has a brilliant method of specifying the > characteristics of a field in every table where it occurs. > > Arthur > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of John W. Colby > Sent: Saturday, March 06, 2004 1:24 PM > To: AccessD > Subject: [AccessD] Your favorite control behavior > > > I am taking suggestions for control behaviors that you have found useful > and have programmed controls to perform in the past. > > For example I program the back color of combos, lists and text boxes to > change to a given color as they get the focus, and back to their > original color as they lose the focus. This helps to avoid the "where's > the cursor" questions. > > Another example, I program the double-click of a combo to open a form to > allow editing the data in the table that the combo pulls from. In > addition, if a combo is programmed to perform this behavior, I > dynamically set its label's back color to a specific color. this is a > visual cue that "this combo has the dbl-click behavior activated" > > What kinds of things do you have your controls do? > > John W. Colby > www.ColbyConsulting.com > > > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > From jwelz at hotmail.com Sun Mar 7 00:08:40 2004 From: jwelz at hotmail.com (Jürgen Welz) Date: Sat, 06 Mar 2004 23:08:40 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] Your favorite control behavior Message-ID: That is almost exactly the way my Notinlist procedure is coded. I also add two parameters, one for the target table to which the record will be added and one for a user name for the type of data to be added. I guess the only difference is that I don't open a separate data entry form. I just set a single record recordset for the existing form to the record that is added and it displays the new data in the appropriate field or fields. For things like date fields or lookups, I create them once on a template form and then copy from there to the form on which I need it displayed. Although you can use WithEvents and hook up controls, I haven't found a way to do this with the Notinlist parameters. I have found that just about every event that I may want to use WithEvents for, I can instead create a public function procedure for. For a control that displays a date for which I want a calendar to pop on double click and to change backcolor when it gets focus and revert to a non-focus backcolor when focus is lost, or respond to mouse move events, I can call the public procedure, usually passing in screen.activecontrol by using the function name rather than [eventprocedure] in the property sheet. When I copy and paste a date control from my template form into a new target form, it is completely hooked up to all standard events. Retrieving the form container name only requires the code to check the parent property of the active control. For example, if you open the event property sheet for a conventional textbox, in the On Got Focus entry in the property you could enter: =OnFocus([Screen].[Activecontrol]) and in the On Lost Focus entyr you could enter: =OffFocus([Screen].[Activecontrol]) Then in a public module: Public Function OnFocus(ctl As Control) ctl.BackColor = vbWhite 'or some standard constant End Function Public Function OffFocus(ctl As Control) ctl.BackColor = -2147483633 'or some constant that can be set End Function You can check for control type being a combo and call .DropDown in the OnFocus or write a separate OnFocusCombo procedure. The whole point is that the event procedures are hooked up when you paste a copy of the control as the event properties are copied with the control. Another nice means to hookup events automatically is to create a control combination, or even a single control, encapsulated on a sub form all by itself. The control comes with its own class module in the code behind the subform. I have found this a great way to hookup something like a callback based list of municipalities with a not in list that can be made aware of the need to requery the data array when there is an addition or change to a municipality record. No need to create a new copy of the control on multiple forms, just drag the subform container on and you get format and events all done. Ciao J?rgen Welz Edmonton, Alberta jwelz at hotmail.com >From: "Arthur Fuller" >Reply-To: Access Developers discussion and problem >solving >To: "'Access Developers discussion and problem >solving'" >Subject: RE: [AccessD] Your favorite control behavior >Date: Sat, 6 Mar 2004 22:53:53 -0800 >MIME-Version: 1.0 >Received: from mc2-f12.hotmail.com ([65.54.190.19]) by mc2-s14.hotmail.com >with Microsoft SMTPSVC(5.0.2195.6824); Sat, 6 Mar 2004 19:56:23 -0800 >Received: from databaseadvisors.com ([209.135.140.44]) by >mc2-f12.hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC(5.0.2195.6824); Sat, 6 Mar 2004 >19:56:23 -0800 >Received: from databaseadvisors.com (databaseadvisors.com >[209.135.140.44])by databaseadvisors.com (8.11.6/8.11.6) with ESMTP id >i273tWM26752;Sat, 6 Mar 2004 21:55:32 -0600 >Received: from >fep03-mail.bloor.is.net.cable.rogers.com(fep03-mail.bloor.is.net.cable.rogers.com >[66.185.86.73])by databaseadvisors.com (8.11.6/8.11.6) with ESMTP id >i273tRM26707for ; Sat, 6 Mar 2004 21:55:27 >-0600 >Received: from rock ([24.153.60.144])by >fep03-mail.bloor.is.net.cable.rogers.com(InterMail vM.5.01.05.12 >201-253-122-126-112-20020820) with ESMTP >id<20040307035516.YGWF411419.fep03-mail.bloor.is.net.cable.rogers.com at rock>for >; Sat, 6 Mar 2004 22:55:16 -0500 >X-Message-Info: jl7Vrt/mfsqz8S4A4C6FS1y0F6nk0vr4 >Message-ID: <016a01c40410$f433f490$6501a8c0 at rock> >X-MSMail-Priority: Normal >X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook, Build 10.0.2627 >X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 >In-Reply-To: >X-Authentication-Info: Submitted using SMTP AUTH LOGIN >atfep03-mail.bloor.is.net.cable.rogers.com from [24.153.60.144]using ID > at Sat, 6 Mar 2004 22:55:16 -0500 >X-BeenThere: accessd at databaseadvisors.com >X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.4 >Precedence: list >List-Id: Access Developers discussion and problem >solving >List-Help: >List-Post: >List-Subscribe: >, >List-Archive: >List-Unsubscribe: >, >Errors-To: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com >Return-Path: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com >X-OriginalArrivalTime: 07 Mar 2004 03:56:23.0073 (UTC) >FILETIME=[27FAB110:01C403F8] > >I have a function called aaNotInList() which takes the same parms as the >NotInList function and adds two new ones -- the name of the form to open >when adding an item, and the "human" name of said entity, the latter >just to pretty up the messagebox that comes up. The functon asks if you >want to add a new "XXX" (4th parm) and if so opens the specified form, >which uses the typical code to hide itself on OK and close itself on >Cancel. Then the function does the usual "add to list and accept the >value" and closes the form. It works great but I still have to type in >that line of code every time I need one. Not that one line of code is a >major hassle, I guess, but can you think of a class-based way to do >this? It might be more fun to do it that way. > >Arthur > >-----Original Message----- >From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com >[mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of John W. Colby >Sent: Saturday, March 06, 2004 1:24 PM >To: AccessD >Subject: [AccessD] Your favorite control behavior > > >I am taking suggestions for control behaviors that you have found useful >and have programmed controls to perform in the past. > >For example I program the back color of combos, lists and text boxes to >change to a given color as they get the focus, and back to their >original color as they lose the focus. This helps to avoid the "where's >the cursor" questions. > >Another example, I program the double-click of a combo to open a form to >allow editing the data in the table that the combo pulls from. In >addition, if a combo is programmed to perform this behavior, I >dynamically set its label's back color to a specific color. this is a >visual cue that "this combo has the dbl-click behavior activated" > >What kinds of things do you have your controls do? > >John W. Colby >www.ColbyConsulting.com > > >-- >_______________________________________________ >AccessD mailing list >AccessD at databaseadvisors.com >http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd >Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > >-- >_______________________________________________ >AccessD mailing list >AccessD at databaseadvisors.com >http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd >Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com _________________________________________________________________ Free yourself from those irritating pop-up ads with MSn Premium. Get 2months FREE* http://join.msn.com/?pgmarket=en-ca&page=byoa/prem&xAPID=1994&DI=1034&SU=http://hotmail.com/enca&HL=Market_MSNIS_Taglines From jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com Sun Mar 7 06:56:23 2004 From: jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com (John W. Colby) Date: Sun, 7 Mar 2004 07:56:23 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Your favorite control behavior In-Reply-To: Message-ID: >That is almost exactly the way my Notinlist procedure is coded. I also add two parameters, one for the target table to which the record will be added and one for a user name for the type of data to be added. My framework has this functionality built in. The developer programs the framework for each such control in the form's OnOpen with syntax like: With fclsfrm.Children .Item("cboIDCity").NotInListData "tlkpCity", "CI_Name", "lfrmCity" .Item("cboIDPrefix").NotInListData "tlkpPrefix", "PFX_Prefix", "lfrmPrefix" .Item("cboIDSuffix").NotInListData "tlkpSuffix", "SFX_Suffix", "lfrmSuffix" .Item("cboIDCity").DependentSet fclsfrm.Children("cboIDContactCity") .Item("cboIDST").DblClickFormData = "lfrmState" .Item("cboIDContactCity").NotInListData "tlkpCity", "CI_Name", "lfrmCity" .Item("cboIDContactSt").DblClickFormData = "lfrmState" .Item("cboIDContactCity").DependentSet fclsfrm.Children("cboIDCity") End With This is actual code taken from the Open of a form in an application. You can also see the calls to set up "dependent object processing" for combos that have other combos that need requerying when they are changed. For the NotInList processing, as you can see I specify the combo name to find the class for in a collection of classes - .Item("cboIDCity"), then specify a method of that class that I will pass parameters into - .NotInListData, then pass in the table name, field name, and a form to open if the double click is used. If the form is missing, the double click is disabled. If the table and field are missing but the form is there, then the NotInList is disabled. There are tables that a combo can display data from that have multiple fields that may need editing. In addition, my code that opens the form takes the PK of the item currently selected and looks up that record, so that when the form opens it is already on that record waiting to be edited. >I just set a single record recordset for the existing form to the record that is added and it displays the new data in the appropriate field or fields. I tried doing multi-field parsing and such and it just got too messy and confusing to the user. If the table has multiple fields, I open an edit form, take the data the user just typed that wasn't in list and make that data the "default value" of the control on the form for the data displayed in the combo. For example if the user is typing in an SSN of a person ad it is not in list, there are waaaay to many fields to fill in for a new person to just do it without a form, so I open the form in Add mode, and place that SSN in the ssn field on the form. This is all done using the combo control class communicating with the form class. The control class opens the new form and passes in OpenArgs. The form class discovers it has openargs, loads an OpenArgs class which parses the OpenArgs and processes any standard OpenArgs such as the one to find the control and make the data the DefaultValue. >in the On Got Focus entry in the property you could enter: =OnFocus([Screen].[Activecontrol]) Unfortunately doing things that way has several major drawbacks. 1) You can't use the Find in a code module to find everywhere that function is called since the call to the function isn't in code. I realize that it can be found from a search utility such as speedferret or Find and Replace but that means that you now have to switch focus and go to that utility. 2) You can't add other functionality to that event since you are specifying that YOUR function be called. There is no generic event stub for adding additional processing to. 3) Programs such as my framework which need to hook events just write MyCtl.SomeEvent = "[EventProcedure]" in order to hook the event and cause Access to route processing to the event stub. Your custom processing would just disappear now. Using this method is fine if you are the only developer who will ever touch your app (and unfortunately many developers simply don't care about the guy that comes along behind). You know you do that, you love doing that and you are happy with it. God forbid you get hit by a bus and I have to take over maintenance of your app because I will be cursing your name for the rest of the life of that application (or until I get the mess straightened out). >Another nice means to hookup events automatically is to create a control combination, or even a single control, encapsulated on a sub form all by itself. My only problem with using subforms in this manner is the frustration of getting the cursor movement to work correctly. The user is tabbing along filling in data and hits a subform and has to then use special keys to get out of the thing and into the next control to be filled in. A custom class that has all the required processing that your form class has gives me all (most) of the advantages that you mention without the "cursor movement" issues since the control is now in my main form. The only thing I don't get is the "drag and drop and I'm done". I do have to dimension the class, initialize it, and clean it up when I am done. I am so used to using classes now though that this is a 60 second thing. On the other hand, if this really is so generic that I use it all the time, I use a naming convention such that as a combo or list class loads it looks at it's name and hooks in the calls to that class to do the special processing for it. Then you are right back to drag and drop convenience. I do this for the record selector combos at the top of my forms. They use a naming convention and my combo class just "knows" that this is a record selector and when an item is selected in that combo the combo class finds the record selected and causes the form to display it. John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of J?rgen Welz Sent: Sunday, March 07, 2004 1:09 AM To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: RE: [AccessD] Your favorite control behavior That is almost exactly the way my Notinlist procedure is coded. I also add two parameters, one for the target table to which the record will be added and one for a user name for the type of data to be added. I guess the only difference is that I don't open a separate data entry form. I just set a single record recordset for the existing form to the record that is added and it displays the new data in the appropriate field or fields. For things like date fields or lookups, I create them once on a template form and then copy from there to the form on which I need it displayed. Although you can use WithEvents and hook up controls, I haven't found a way to do this with the Notinlist parameters. I have found that just about every event that I may want to use WithEvents for, I can instead create a public function procedure for. For a control that displays a date for which I want a calendar to pop on double click and to change backcolor when it gets focus and revert to a non-focus backcolor when focus is lost, or respond to mouse move events, I can call the public procedure, usually passing in screen.activecontrol by using the function name rather than [eventprocedure] in the property sheet. When I copy and paste a date control from my template form into a new target form, it is completely hooked up to all standard events. Retrieving the form container name only requires the code to check the parent property of the active control. For example, if you open the event property sheet for a conventional textbox, in the On Got Focus entry in the property you could enter: =OnFocus([Screen].[Activecontrol]) and in the On Lost Focus entyr you could enter: =OffFocus([Screen].[Activecontrol]) Then in a public module: Public Function OnFocus(ctl As Control) ctl.BackColor = vbWhite 'or some standard constant End Function Public Function OffFocus(ctl As Control) ctl.BackColor = -2147483633 'or some constant that can be set End Function You can check for control type being a combo and call .DropDown in the OnFocus or write a separate OnFocusCombo procedure. The whole point is that the event procedures are hooked up when you paste a copy of the control as the event properties are copied with the control. Another nice means to hookup events automatically is to create a control combination, or even a single control, encapsulated on a sub form all by itself. The control comes with its own class module in the code behind the subform. I have found this a great way to hookup something like a callback based list of municipalities with a not in list that can be made aware of the need to requery the data array when there is an addition or change to a municipality record. No need to create a new copy of the control on multiple forms, just drag the subform container on and you get format and events all done. Ciao J?rgen Welz Edmonton, Alberta jwelz at hotmail.com >From: "Arthur Fuller" >Reply-To: Access Developers discussion and problem >solving >To: "'Access Developers discussion and problem >solving'" >Subject: RE: [AccessD] Your favorite control behavior >Date: Sat, 6 Mar 2004 22:53:53 -0800 >MIME-Version: 1.0 >Received: from mc2-f12.hotmail.com ([65.54.190.19]) by mc2-s14.hotmail.com >with Microsoft SMTPSVC(5.0.2195.6824); Sat, 6 Mar 2004 19:56:23 -0800 >Received: from databaseadvisors.com ([209.135.140.44]) by >mc2-f12.hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC(5.0.2195.6824); Sat, 6 Mar 2004 >19:56:23 -0800 >Received: from databaseadvisors.com (databaseadvisors.com >[209.135.140.44])by databaseadvisors.com (8.11.6/8.11.6) with ESMTP id >i273tWM26752;Sat, 6 Mar 2004 21:55:32 -0600 >Received: from >fep03-mail.bloor.is.net.cable.rogers.com(fep03-mail.bloor.is.net.cable.roge rs.com >[66.185.86.73])by databaseadvisors.com (8.11.6/8.11.6) with ESMTP id >i273tRM26707for ; Sat, 6 Mar 2004 21:55:27 >-0600 >Received: from rock ([24.153.60.144])by >fep03-mail.bloor.is.net.cable.rogers.com(InterMail vM.5.01.05.12 >201-253-122-126-112-20020820) with ESMTP >id<20040307035516.YGWF411419.fep03-mail.bloor.is.net.cable.rogers.com at rock> for >; Sat, 6 Mar 2004 22:55:16 -0500 >X-Message-Info: jl7Vrt/mfsqz8S4A4C6FS1y0F6nk0vr4 >Message-ID: <016a01c40410$f433f490$6501a8c0 at rock> >X-MSMail-Priority: Normal >X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook, Build 10.0.2627 >X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 >In-Reply-To: >X-Authentication-Info: Submitted using SMTP AUTH LOGIN >atfep03-mail.bloor.is.net.cable.rogers.com from [24.153.60.144]using ID > at Sat, 6 Mar 2004 22:55:16 -0500 >X-BeenThere: accessd at databaseadvisors.com >X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.4 >Precedence: list >List-Id: Access Developers discussion and problem >solving >List-Help: >List-Post: >List-Subscribe: >, >List-Archive: >List-Unsubscribe: >, >Errors-To: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com >Return-Path: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com >X-OriginalArrivalTime: 07 Mar 2004 03:56:23.0073 (UTC) >FILETIME=[27FAB110:01C403F8] > >I have a function called aaNotInList() which takes the same parms as the >NotInList function and adds two new ones -- the name of the form to open >when adding an item, and the "human" name of said entity, the latter >just to pretty up the messagebox that comes up. The functon asks if you >want to add a new "XXX" (4th parm) and if so opens the specified form, >which uses the typical code to hide itself on OK and close itself on >Cancel. Then the function does the usual "add to list and accept the >value" and closes the form. It works great but I still have to type in >that line of code every time I need one. Not that one line of code is a >major hassle, I guess, but can you think of a class-based way to do >this? It might be more fun to do it that way. > >Arthur > >-----Original Message----- >From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com >[mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of John W. Colby >Sent: Saturday, March 06, 2004 1:24 PM >To: AccessD >Subject: [AccessD] Your favorite control behavior > > >I am taking suggestions for control behaviors that you have found useful >and have programmed controls to perform in the past. > >For example I program the back color of combos, lists and text boxes to >change to a given color as they get the focus, and back to their >original color as they lose the focus. This helps to avoid the "where's >the cursor" questions. > >Another example, I program the double-click of a combo to open a form to >allow editing the data in the table that the combo pulls from. In >addition, if a combo is programmed to perform this behavior, I >dynamically set its label's back color to a specific color. this is a >visual cue that "this combo has the dbl-click behavior activated" > >What kinds of things do you have your controls do? > >John W. Colby >www.ColbyConsulting.com > > >-- >_______________________________________________ >AccessD mailing list >AccessD at databaseadvisors.com >http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd >Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > >-- >_______________________________________________ >AccessD mailing list >AccessD at databaseadvisors.com >http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd >Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com _________________________________________________________________ Free yourself from those irritating pop-up ads with MSn Premium. Get 2months FREE* http://join.msn.com/?pgmarket=en-ca&page=byoa/prem&xAPID=1994&DI=1034&SU=htt p://hotmail.com/enca&HL=Market_MSNIS_Taglines -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From gustav at cactus.dk Sun Mar 7 07:09:06 2004 From: gustav at cactus.dk (Gustav Brock) Date: Sun, 7 Mar 2004 14:09:06 +0100 Subject: [AccessD] Info Interesting use of InfoPath In-Reply-To: <3F7A7578.9000007@shaw.ca> References: <3F7AF33E.14003.19E6DAF@localhost> <3F7A7578.9000007@shaw.ca> Message-ID: <1499304128.20040307140906@cactus.dk> Hi Marty et all Also noted this from Mike Gunderloy, classifying it more as an end user tool: "InfoPath is a tool that lets end users create XML files matching a particular schema without ever seeing an angle bracket." http://www.adtmag.com/article.asp?id=8979 /gustav > If you were wondering about uses for InfoPath. > Rather than use Access to link to a webservice. This method with > InfoPath allows a user to quickly link to a webservice via XML with no > coding. The webservice could be a ASP.Net hook to an old Cobol legacy > app to edit or add data.. > Dynamically Data-bind in InfoPath By Thiru Thangarathinam > http://www.developer.com/net/article.php/3082431 From artful at rogers.com Sun Mar 7 13:14:12 2004 From: artful at rogers.com (Arthur Fuller) Date: Sun, 7 Mar 2004 11:14:12 -0800 Subject: [AccessD] Your favorite control behavior In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <01e301c40478$60239db0$6501a8c0@rock> I don't see the advantage to doing it in the OnOpen versus in the NotInList event of the control itself. Either way it's one line of code. Please explain. Arthur -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of John W. Colby Sent: Sunday, March 07, 2004 4:56 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] Your favorite control behavior >That is almost exactly the way my Notinlist procedure is coded. I also >add two parameters, one for the target table to which the record will be added and one for a user name for the type of data to be added. My framework has this functionality built in. The developer programs the framework for each such control in the form's OnOpen with syntax like: With fclsfrm.Children .Item("cboIDCity").NotInListData "tlkpCity", "CI_Name", "lfrmCity" .Item("cboIDPrefix").NotInListData "tlkpPrefix", "PFX_Prefix", "lfrmPrefix" .Item("cboIDSuffix").NotInListData "tlkpSuffix", "SFX_Suffix", "lfrmSuffix" .Item("cboIDCity").DependentSet fclsfrm.Children("cboIDContactCity") .Item("cboIDST").DblClickFormData = "lfrmState" .Item("cboIDContactCity").NotInListData "tlkpCity", "CI_Name", "lfrmCity" .Item("cboIDContactSt").DblClickFormData = "lfrmState" .Item("cboIDContactCity").DependentSet fclsfrm.Children("cboIDCity") End With This is actual code taken from the Open of a form in an application. You can also see the calls to set up "dependent object processing" for combos that have other combos that need requerying when they are changed. For the NotInList processing, as you can see I specify the combo name to find the class for in a collection of classes - .Item("cboIDCity"), then specify a method of that class that I will pass parameters into - .NotInListData, then pass in the table name, field name, and a form to open if the double click is used. If the form is missing, the double click is disabled. If the table and field are missing but the form is there, then the NotInList is disabled. There are tables that a combo can display data from that have multiple fields that may need editing. In addition, my code that opens the form takes the PK of the item currently selected and looks up that record, so that when the form opens it is already on that record waiting to be edited. >I just set a single record recordset for the existing form to the >record that is added and it displays the new data in the appropriate field or fields. I tried doing multi-field parsing and such and it just got too messy and confusing to the user. If the table has multiple fields, I open an edit form, take the data the user just typed that wasn't in list and make that data the "default value" of the control on the form for the data displayed in the combo. For example if the user is typing in an SSN of a person ad it is not in list, there are waaaay to many fields to fill in for a new person to just do it without a form, so I open the form in Add mode, and place that SSN in the ssn field on the form. This is all done using the combo control class communicating with the form class. The control class opens the new form and passes in OpenArgs. The form class discovers it has openargs, loads an OpenArgs class which parses the OpenArgs and processes any standard OpenArgs such as the one to find the control and make the data the DefaultValue. >in the On Got Focus entry in the property you could enter: =OnFocus([Screen].[Activecontrol]) Unfortunately doing things that way has several major drawbacks. 1) You can't use the Find in a code module to find everywhere that function is called since the call to the function isn't in code. I realize that it can be found from a search utility such as speedferret or Find and Replace but that means that you now have to switch focus and go to that utility. 2) You can't add other functionality to that event since you are specifying that YOUR function be called. There is no generic event stub for adding additional processing to. 3) Programs such as my framework which need to hook events just write MyCtl.SomeEvent = "[EventProcedure]" in order to hook the event and cause Access to route processing to the event stub. Your custom processing would just disappear now. Using this method is fine if you are the only developer who will ever touch your app (and unfortunately many developers simply don't care about the guy that comes along behind). You know you do that, you love doing that and you are happy with it. God forbid you get hit by a bus and I have to take over maintenance of your app because I will be cursing your name for the rest of the life of that application (or until I get the mess straightened out). >Another nice means to hookup events automatically is to create a >control combination, or even a single control, encapsulated on a sub form all by itself. My only problem with using subforms in this manner is the frustration of getting the cursor movement to work correctly. The user is tabbing along filling in data and hits a subform and has to then use special keys to get out of the thing and into the next control to be filled in. A custom class that has all the required processing that your form class has gives me all (most) of the advantages that you mention without the "cursor movement" issues since the control is now in my main form. The only thing I don't get is the "drag and drop and I'm done". I do have to dimension the class, initialize it, and clean it up when I am done. I am so used to using classes now though that this is a 60 second thing. On the other hand, if this really is so generic that I use it all the time, I use a naming convention such that as a combo or list class loads it looks at it's name and hooks in the calls to that class to do the special processing for it. Then you are right back to drag and drop convenience. I do this for the record selector combos at the top of my forms. They use a naming convention and my combo class just "knows" that this is a record selector and when an item is selected in that combo the combo class finds the record selected and causes the form to display it. John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of J?rgen Welz Sent: Sunday, March 07, 2004 1:09 AM To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: RE: [AccessD] Your favorite control behavior That is almost exactly the way my Notinlist procedure is coded. I also add two parameters, one for the target table to which the record will be added and one for a user name for the type of data to be added. I guess the only difference is that I don't open a separate data entry form. I just set a single record recordset for the existing form to the record that is added and it displays the new data in the appropriate field or fields. For things like date fields or lookups, I create them once on a template form and then copy from there to the form on which I need it displayed. Although you can use WithEvents and hook up controls, I haven't found a way to do this with the Notinlist parameters. I have found that just about every event that I may want to use WithEvents for, I can instead create a public function procedure for. For a control that displays a date for which I want a calendar to pop on double click and to change backcolor when it gets focus and revert to a non-focus backcolor when focus is lost, or respond to mouse move events, I can call the public procedure, usually passing in screen.activecontrol by using the function name rather than [eventprocedure] in the property sheet. When I copy and paste a date control from my template form into a new target form, it is completely hooked up to all standard events. Retrieving the form container name only requires the code to check the parent property of the active control. For example, if you open the event property sheet for a conventional textbox, in the On Got Focus entry in the property you could enter: =OnFocus([Screen].[Activecontrol]) and in the On Lost Focus entyr you could enter: =OffFocus([Screen].[Activecontrol]) Then in a public module: Public Function OnFocus(ctl As Control) ctl.BackColor = vbWhite 'or some standard constant End Function Public Function OffFocus(ctl As Control) ctl.BackColor = -2147483633 'or some constant that can be set End Function You can check for control type being a combo and call .DropDown in the OnFocus or write a separate OnFocusCombo procedure. The whole point is that the event procedures are hooked up when you paste a copy of the control as the event properties are copied with the control. Another nice means to hookup events automatically is to create a control combination, or even a single control, encapsulated on a sub form all by itself. The control comes with its own class module in the code behind the subform. I have found this a great way to hookup something like a callback based list of municipalities with a not in list that can be made aware of the need to requery the data array when there is an addition or change to a municipality record. No need to create a new copy of the control on multiple forms, just drag the subform container on and you get format and events all done. Ciao J?rgen Welz Edmonton, Alberta jwelz at hotmail.com >From: "Arthur Fuller" >Reply-To: Access Developers discussion and problem >solving >To: "'Access Developers discussion and problem >solving'" >Subject: RE: [AccessD] Your favorite control behavior >Date: Sat, 6 Mar 2004 22:53:53 -0800 >MIME-Version: 1.0 >Received: from mc2-f12.hotmail.com ([65.54.190.19]) by >mc2-s14.hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC(5.0.2195.6824); Sat, 6 Mar >2004 19:56:23 -0800 >Received: from databaseadvisors.com ([209.135.140.44]) by >mc2-f12.hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC(5.0.2195.6824); Sat, 6 Mar 2004 >19:56:23 -0800 >Received: from databaseadvisors.com (databaseadvisors.com >[209.135.140.44])by databaseadvisors.com (8.11.6/8.11.6) with ESMTP id >i273tWM26752;Sat, 6 Mar 2004 21:55:32 -0600 >Received: from >fep03-mail.bloor.is.net.cable.rogers.com(fep03-mail.bloor.is.net.cable. roge rs.com >[66.185.86.73])by databaseadvisors.com (8.11.6/8.11.6) with ESMTP id >i273tRM26707for ; Sat, 6 Mar 2004 >21:55:27 -0600 >Received: from rock ([24.153.60.144])by >fep03-mail.bloor.is.net.cable.rogers.com(InterMail vM.5.01.05.12 >201-253-122-126-112-20020820) with ESMTP >id<20040307035516.YGWF411419.fep03-mail.bloor.is.net.cable.rogers.com at r >ock> for >; Sat, 6 Mar 2004 22:55:16 -0500 >X-Message-Info: jl7Vrt/mfsqz8S4A4C6FS1y0F6nk0vr4 >Message-ID: <016a01c40410$f433f490$6501a8c0 at rock> >X-MSMail-Priority: Normal >X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook, Build 10.0.2627 >X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 >In-Reply-To: >X-Authentication-Info: Submitted using SMTP AUTH LOGIN >atfep03-mail.bloor.is.net.cable.rogers.com from [24.153.60.144]using ID > at Sat, 6 Mar 2004 22:55:16 -0500 >X-BeenThere: accessd at databaseadvisors.com >X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.4 >Precedence: list >List-Id: Access Developers discussion and problem >solving >List-Help: >List-Post: >List-Subscribe: >,requ est at databaseadvisors.com?subject=subscribe> >List-Archive: >List-Unsubscribe: >,requ est at databaseadvisors.com?subject=unsubscribe> >Errors-To: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com >Return-Path: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com >X-OriginalArrivalTime: 07 Mar 2004 03:56:23.0073 (UTC) >FILETIME=[27FAB110:01C403F8] > >I have a function called aaNotInList() which takes the same parms as >the NotInList function and adds two new ones -- the name of the form to >open when adding an item, and the "human" name of said entity, the >latter just to pretty up the messagebox that comes up. The functon asks >if you want to add a new "XXX" (4th parm) and if so opens the specified >form, which uses the typical code to hide itself on OK and close itself >on Cancel. Then the function does the usual "add to list and accept the >value" and closes the form. It works great but I still have to type in >that line of code every time I need one. Not that one line of code is a >major hassle, I guess, but can you think of a class-based way to do >this? It might be more fun to do it that way. > >Arthur > >-----Original Message----- >From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com >[mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of John W. >Colby >Sent: Saturday, March 06, 2004 1:24 PM >To: AccessD >Subject: [AccessD] Your favorite control behavior > > >I am taking suggestions for control behaviors that you have found >useful and have programmed controls to perform in the past. > >For example I program the back color of combos, lists and text boxes to >change to a given color as they get the focus, and back to their >original color as they lose the focus. This helps to avoid the >"where's the cursor" questions. > >Another example, I program the double-click of a combo to open a form >to allow editing the data in the table that the combo pulls from. In >addition, if a combo is programmed to perform this behavior, I >dynamically set its label's back color to a specific color. this is a >visual cue that "this combo has the dbl-click behavior activated" > >What kinds of things do you have your controls do? > >John W. Colby >www.ColbyConsulting.com > > >-- >_______________________________________________ >AccessD mailing list >AccessD at databaseadvisors.com >http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd >Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > >-- >_______________________________________________ >AccessD mailing list >AccessD at databaseadvisors.com >http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd >Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com _________________________________________________________________ Free yourself from those irritating pop-up ads with MSn Premium. Get 2months FREE* http://join.msn.com/?pgmarket=en-ca&page=byoa/prem&xAPID=1994&DI=1034&SU =htt p://hotmail.com/enca&HL=Market_MSNIS_Taglines -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From caa at highway.com.br Sun Mar 7 10:29:19 2004 From: caa at highway.com.br (Carlos Alberto Alves) Date: Sun, 07 Mar 2004 13:29:19 -0300 Subject: [AccessD] report graph to power point In-Reply-To: <00c701c4036e$85a0cb90$67c2f63f@Desktop> References: <00c701c4036e$85a0cb90$67c2f63f@Desktop> Message-ID: On Sat, 6 Mar 2004 06:31:03 -0500, John Eget wrote: > is there a way to export a graph from a report to a power point slide? > John > -- You may use code to export your graph; do not forget the reference to PowerPoint lib. If your graph is in a form, you may also make AutoActivate to "double-click" and Enable to "Yes". You will be able to right-click it, choose Copy and Paste it wherever you want. HTH, -- ****************************** * Carlos Alberto Alves * * Child Neurologist * * Systems Analyst/Programmer * * Rio de Janeiro, Brazil * * mailto:caa at highway.com.br * ****************************** From sgoodhall at comcast.net Sun Mar 7 10:50:47 2004 From: sgoodhall at comcast.net (Steve Goodhall) Date: Sun, 7 Mar 2004 11:50:47 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Offtopic: Word, macros and applying styles to paragraphs In-Reply-To: Message-ID: The quick answer to your question is "yes." Word has a VBA object model every bit as rich as Access. I have a macro that does something close to what you want. Rather than having a hot-key for each style, it has a single hot key that pops up a form containing a list box with style names. The style names are loaded from a text file. Any of this could be changed if you want something with fewer key strokes. If you are interested I could send it to you off-list. I actually have a bunch of Word macros that do various useful things like this. I should get up the initiative to post them on my web site. Regards, Steve Goodhall Senior Project Manager Compuware Corporation steve at goodhall.info -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of John W. Colby Sent: Saturday, March 06, 2004 8:24 AM To: DBA - Tech; AccessD Subject: [AccessD] Offtopic: Word, macros and applying styles to paragraphs I am working on formatting existing word documents to use styles from a document template. I can select text and then click on the style, select the style and apply that style to the selected text. I'm wondering if Word has a "macro" system that I could use to apply hotkeys to macro styles so that I can just tap hotkeys to apply the styles to the paragraphs selected? John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From jwelz at hotmail.com Sun Mar 7 10:57:57 2004 From: jwelz at hotmail.com (Jürgen Welz) Date: Sun, 07 Mar 2004 09:57:57 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] Your favorite control behavior Message-ID: When it comes to subform tabbing you can store the tab index (me.parent.tabindex), do a one time write of cursor navigation code for the subform (for continuous forms for example) and at EOF, iterate the parent's control's tab index properties and set focus to the next one so the user doesn't know he was ever in a subform. Accellerator keys on the labels were an adjunct in the past before I found a really friendly tab order navigation approach for subforms and was fine for users who worked with an application for more than a few weeks. Now many depend on the Accellerators that Access doesn't give you unless you code them, but tabbing in and out of subforms is handled in a transparent manner. Standard functions to change display on or off focus don't require search and replace. If there's a control that can get focus, the handler is there, always. If the control is disabled, it doesn't fire. You can also leave in your own search and replace in a development copy of an mdb and document the usage of property sheet function calls. The function is aware of the control, if screen.activecontrol is passed and the function can be as aware as WithEvents processing that control A requires one kind of processing and control B another, and you can also pass additional parameters if the function is to provide selective functionality. As a general rule, I do not add such additional functionality to fundamental events such as focus. For control arrays such as grids on custom calendar or calculator forms, I find it helpful to hookup the controls by passing in a number that represents the controls position in a grid. For example, a calendar may have 42 labels with mouse click, cursor movement and keyboard navigation events. In a case like this, the controls are in an array of controls in the code behiind the form, lblCal(0 To 41), and the functions are passed the number value of the control (or screen.active control and the number is parsed from the name). In this manner, there is a single event procedure that handles all the buttons or labels for all the controls in the grid. I don't know for a fact, but I would suspect there are 20 'developers' who understand the function call that I use to every 1 who could just start working with your framework. I believe that a client who had to find a developer to take over my application would have very little difficulty finding a replacement for me. I was unsuccessful in using WithEvents to process NotInList in a manner that worked for me. There is not a great deal of multi field parsing involved in my approach. I'll parse names for example, and set a few default values that the user may change. Using single record bound recordsets for a form that displays the kind of record being added, there is no need to change data entry mode because the record is immediately created in the event and the form is navigated to the record for completion. Alternatively, a user can enter a contact from various forms that require an associated contact and often it is enough for an application to have a name when the context from which he was added signifies the kind of contact, the company for which he works and the record to which he is associated. I allow the users to choose to add additional information but it often isn't necessary nor is additional information always required or available. I'm coming to depend more on WithEvents, especially as I move into other programming languages, but I still find it quicker and less code and easier for most 'developers', like the kind you meet at a local Access users group, to understand the way I've been doing it rather than to understand a particular implementation of someone's framework. Ciao J?rgen Welz Edmonton, Alberta jwelz at hotmail.com >From: "John W. Colby" > > >That is almost exactly the way my Notinlist procedure is coded. I also >add >two parameters, one for the target table to which the record will be added >and one for a user name for the type of data to be added. > >My framework has this functionality built in. The developer programs the >framework for each such control in the form's OnOpen with syntax like: > > With fclsfrm.Children > .Item("cboIDCity").NotInListData "tlkpCity", "CI_Name", "lfrmCity" > .Item("cboIDPrefix").NotInListData "tlkpPrefix", "PFX_Prefix", >"lfrmPrefix" > .Item("cboIDSuffix").NotInListData "tlkpSuffix", "SFX_Suffix", >"lfrmSuffix" > .Item("cboIDCity").DependentSet >fclsfrm.Children("cboIDContactCity") > .Item("cboIDST").DblClickFormData = "lfrmState" > .Item("cboIDContactCity").NotInListData "tlkpCity", "CI_Name", >"lfrmCity" > .Item("cboIDContactSt").DblClickFormData = "lfrmState" > .Item("cboIDContactCity").DependentSet >fclsfrm.Children("cboIDCity") > End With > >This is actual code taken from the Open of a form in an application. You >can also see the calls to set up "dependent object processing" for combos >that have other combos that need requerying when they are changed. > >For the NotInList processing, as you can see I specify the combo name to >find the class for in a collection of classes - .Item("cboIDCity"), then >specify a method of that class that I will pass parameters into - >.NotInListData, then pass in the table name, field name, and a form to open >if the double click is used. If the form is missing, the double click is >disabled. If the table and field are missing but the form is there, then >the NotInList is disabled. There are tables that a combo can display data >from that have multiple fields that may need editing. > >In addition, my code that opens the form takes the PK of the item currently >selected and looks up that record, so that when the form opens it is >already >on that record waiting to be edited. > > >I just set a single record recordset for the existing form to the record >that is added and it displays the new data in the appropriate field or >fields. > >I tried doing multi-field parsing and such and it just got too messy and >confusing to the user. If the table has multiple fields, I open an edit >form, take the data the user just typed that wasn't in list and make that >data the "default value" of the control on the form for the data displayed >in the combo. For example if the user is typing in an SSN of a person ad >it >is not in list, there are waaaay to many fields to fill in for a new person >to just do it without a form, so I open the form in Add mode, and place >that >SSN in the ssn field on the form. > >This is all done using the combo control class communicating with the form >class. The control class opens the new form and passes in OpenArgs. The >form class discovers it has openargs, loads an OpenArgs class which parses >the OpenArgs and processes any standard OpenArgs such as the one to find >the >control and make the data the DefaultValue. > > >in the On Got Focus entry in the property you could enter: >=OnFocus([Screen].[Activecontrol]) > >Unfortunately doing things that way has several major drawbacks. > >1) You can't use the Find in a code module to find everywhere that function >is called since the call to the function isn't in code. I realize that it >can be found from a search utility such as speedferret or Find and Replace >but that means that you now have to switch focus and go to that utility. > >2) You can't add other functionality to that event since you are specifying >that YOUR function be called. There is no generic event stub for adding >additional processing to. > >3) Programs such as my framework which need to hook events just write >MyCtl.SomeEvent = "[EventProcedure]" in order to hook the event and cause >Access to route processing to the event stub. Your custom processing would >just disappear now. > >Using this method is fine if you are the only developer who will ever touch >your app (and unfortunately many developers simply don't care about the guy >that comes along behind). You know you do that, you love doing that and >you >are happy with it. God forbid you get hit by a bus and I have to take over >maintenance of your app because I will be cursing your name for the rest of >the life of that application (or until I get the mess straightened out). > > >Another nice means to hookup events automatically is to create a control >combination, or even a single control, encapsulated on a sub form all by >itself. > >My only problem with using subforms in this manner is the frustration of >getting the cursor movement to work correctly. The user is tabbing along >filling in data and hits a subform and has to then use special keys to get >out of the thing and into the next control to be filled in. A custom class >that has all the required processing that your form class has gives me all >(most) of the advantages that you mention without the "cursor movement" >issues since the control is now in my main form. The only thing I don't >get >is the "drag and drop and I'm done". I do have to dimension the class, >initialize it, and clean it up when I am done. I am so used to using >classes now though that this is a 60 second thing. > >On the other hand, if this really is so generic that I use it all the time, >I use a naming convention such that as a combo or list class loads it looks >at it's name and hooks in the calls to that class to do the special >processing for it. Then you are right back to drag and drop convenience. >I >do this for the record selector combos at the top of my forms. They use a >naming convention and my combo class just "knows" that this is a record >selector and when an item is selected in that combo the combo class finds >the record selected and causes the form to display it. > >John W. Colby >www.ColbyConsulting.com > >-----Original Message----- >From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com >[mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of J?rgen Welz >Sent: Sunday, March 07, 2004 1:09 AM >To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com >Subject: RE: [AccessD] Your favorite control behavior > > >That is almost exactly the way my Notinlist procedure is coded. I also add >two parameters, one for the target table to which the record will be added >and one for a user name for the type of data to be added. I guess the only >difference is that I don't open a separate data entry form. I just set a >single record recordset for the existing form to the record that is added >and it displays the new data in the appropriate field or fields. > >For things like date fields or lookups, I create them once on a template >form and then copy from there to the form on which I need it displayed. >Although you can use WithEvents and hook up controls, I haven't found a way >to do this with the Notinlist parameters. I have found that just about >every event that I may want to use WithEvents for, I can instead create a >public function procedure for. For a control that displays a date for >which >I want a calendar to pop on double click and to change backcolor when it >gets focus and revert to a non-focus backcolor when focus is lost, or >respond to mouse move events, I can call the public procedure, usually >passing in screen.activecontrol by using the function name rather than >[eventprocedure] in the property sheet. When I copy and paste a date >control from my template form into a new target form, it is completely >hooked up to all standard events. Retrieving the form container name only >requires the code to check the parent property of the active control. For >example, if you open the event property sheet for a conventional textbox, >in >the On Got Focus entry in the property you could enter: > >=OnFocus([Screen].[Activecontrol]) > >and in the On Lost Focus entyr you could enter: > >=OffFocus([Screen].[Activecontrol]) > >Then in a public module: > >Public Function OnFocus(ctl As Control) > ctl.BackColor = vbWhite 'or some standard constant >End Function >Public Function OffFocus(ctl As Control) > ctl.BackColor = -2147483633 'or some constant that can be set >End Function > >You can check for control type being a combo and call .DropDown in the >OnFocus or write a separate OnFocusCombo procedure. The whole point is >that >the event procedures are hooked up when you paste a copy of the control as >the event properties are copied with the control. > >Another nice means to hookup events automatically is to create a control >combination, or even a single control, encapsulated on a sub form all by >itself. The control comes with its own class module in the code behind the >subform. I have found this a great way to hookup something like a callback >based list of municipalities with a not in list that can be made aware of >the need to requery the data array when there is an addition or change to a >municipality record. No need to create a new copy of the control on >multiple forms, just drag the subform container on and you get format and >events all done. > >Ciao >J?rgen Welz >Edmonton, Alberta >jwelz at hotmail.com > > > > > > >From: "Arthur Fuller" > > > >I have a function called aaNotInList() which takes the same parms as the > >NotInList function and adds two new ones -- the name of the form to open > >when adding an item, and the "human" name of said entity, the latter > >just to pretty up the messagebox that comes up. The functon asks if you > >want to add a new "XXX" (4th parm) and if so opens the specified form, > >which uses the typical code to hide itself on OK and close itself on > >Cancel. Then the function does the usual "add to list and accept the > >value" and closes the form. It works great but I still have to type in > >that line of code every time I need one. Not that one line of code is a > >major hassle, I guess, but can you think of a class-based way to do > >this? It might be more fun to do it that way. > > > >Arthur _________________________________________________________________ MSN Premium includes powerful parental controls and get 2 months FREE* http://join.msn.com/?pgmarket=en-ca&page=byoa/prem&xAPID=1994&DI=1034&SU=http://hotmail.com/enca&HL=Market_MSNIS_Taglines From jwelz at hotmail.com Sun Mar 7 12:11:32 2004 From: jwelz at hotmail.com (Jürgen Welz) Date: Sun, 07 Mar 2004 11:11:32 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] Your favorite control behavior Message-ID: I typed my last response with air code but neglected to say that my tabbing in and out of subforms depends on knowing the name of the subform control on the parent. I use a naming convention prefixing 's' to the name of the form name that is used as a subform to make this work. Me.Parent("s" & Me.Name).TabIndex is used to return he the subform control's TabIndex to the sub form. Ciao J?rgen Welz Edmonton, Alberta jwelz at hotmail.com _________________________________________________________________ Add photos to your e-mail with MSN Premium. Get 2 months FREE* http://join.msn.com/?pgmarket=en-ca&page=byoa/prem&xAPID=1994&DI=1034&SU=http://hotmail.com/enca&HL=Market_MSNIS_Taglines From artful at rogers.com Sun Mar 7 17:48:55 2004 From: artful at rogers.com (Arthur Fuller) Date: Sun, 7 Mar 2004 15:48:55 -0800 Subject: [AccessD] Combo-box control tip Message-ID: <01e901c4049e$c1336010$6501a8c0@rock> I added some control-tip text to several combo-boxes, but the text doesn't appear no matter how long I linger there the controltip does not appear. I've copied the text into the status bar so I can fake it for now, but I'd much rather have the control tip working. What am I doing wrong? I assume that since control tip is supported in the properties window that it actually works. Na?ve? Arthur From starkey at wanadoo.nl Sun Mar 7 15:34:24 2004 From: starkey at wanadoo.nl (StaRKeY) Date: Sun, 7 Mar 2004 22:34:24 +0100 Subject: [AccessD] Combo-box control tip In-Reply-To: <01e901c4049e$c1336010$6501a8c0@rock> Message-ID: Hi Arthur have you tried the format option 'bring to front'? Regards, Eric Starkenburg Starkenburg Office Solutions -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Arthur Fuller Sent: maandag 8 maart 2004 00:49 To: AccessD Subject: [AccessD] Combo-box control tip I added some control-tip text to several combo-boxes, but the text doesn't appear no matter how long I linger there the controltip does not appear. I've copied the text into the status bar so I can fake it for now, but I'd much rather have the control tip working. What am I doing wrong? I assume that since control tip is supported in the properties window that it actually works. Na?ve? Arthur -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com --- avast! Antivirus: Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 0403-2, 03/05/2004 Tested on: 7-3-2004 22:34:24 avast! is copyright (c) 2000-2003 ALWIL Software. http://www.avast.com From starkey at wanadoo.nl Sun Mar 7 15:36:02 2004 From: starkey at wanadoo.nl (StaRKeY) Date: Sun, 7 Mar 2004 22:36:02 +0100 Subject: [AccessD] Combo-box control tip In-Reply-To: <01e901c4049e$c1336010$6501a8c0@rock> Message-ID: Another thing just popped to mind... does the form has a specific state like pop-up orso, if so you might have to change this but I'm not sure. Regards, Eric -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Arthur Fuller Sent: maandag 8 maart 2004 00:49 To: AccessD Subject: [AccessD] Combo-box control tip I added some control-tip text to several combo-boxes, but the text doesn't appear no matter how long I linger there the controltip does not appear. I've copied the text into the status bar so I can fake it for now, but I'd much rather have the control tip working. What am I doing wrong? I assume that since control tip is supported in the properties window that it actually works. Na?ve? Arthur -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com --- avast! Antivirus: Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 0403-2, 03/05/2004 Tested on: 7-3-2004 22:36:02 avast! is copyright (c) 2000-2003 ALWIL Software. http://www.avast.com From jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com Sun Mar 7 16:09:44 2004 From: jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com (John W. Colby) Date: Sun, 7 Mar 2004 17:09:44 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Your favorite control behavior In-Reply-To: <01e301c40478$60239db0$6501a8c0@rock> Message-ID: Arthur, As I have been discussing in my emails lately I use a framework with various classes. One of these is dclsFrm which is the form class. In OnOpen of the form I set up the form. Once dclsFrm is initialized it has scanned for all the controls and loaded a class for each control. If I need to "program" the control classes, I then do so immediately after initializing the dclsFrm. The whole form header looks like (error handler stripped out for readability): Option Compare Database Option Explicit Public WithEvents fclsfrm As dclsFrm Private Sub Form_Open(Cancel As Integer) Set fclsfrm = New dclsFrm fclsfrm.Init Nothing, Me, Cancel If Cancel Then Exit Sub With fclsfrm.Children .Item("cboIDCity").NotInListData "tlkpCity", "CI_Name", "lfrmCity" .Item("cboIDPrefix").NotInListData "tlkpPrefix", "PFX_Prefix", "lfrmPrefix" .Item("cboIDSuffix").NotInListData "tlkpSuffix", "SFX_Suffix", "lfrmSuffix" .Item("cboIDCity").DependentSet fclsfrm.Children("cboIDContactCity") .Item("cboIDST").DblClickFormData = "lfrmState" .Item("cboIDContactCity").NotInListData "tlkpCity", "CI_Name", "lfrmCity" .Item("cboIDContactSt").DblClickFormData = "lfrmState" .Item("cboIDContactCity").DependentSet fclsfrm.Children("cboIDCity") End With End Sub Thus I dimension dclsFrm Withevents (it can raise events that I may want to sink in the form's class). I set the class to a new instance. Set fclsfrm = New dclsFrm I initialize the dclsfrm passing in Me and the Cancel variable so the Init can cancel the opening of the form if necessary. fclsfrm.Init Nothing, Me, Cancel If dclsFrm sets cancel true I exit the sub and allow the form to close If Cancel Then Exit Sub If I get to that point (cancel is not returned true) then I MAY "set up" various control classes. In this case I am setting up NotInList and dblClick events for cboIDCity, cboIDPrefix, cboIDSuffix, and cboIDContactCity. I am also setting up Dependent combos for cboIDCity (cboIDContactCity may change if any changes are made to the city table) and cboIDContactCity (cboIDCity may change if any changes are made to cboIDContactCity ). With fclsfrm.Children .Item("cboIDCity").NotInListData "tlkpCity", "CI_Name", "lfrmCity" .Item("cboIDPrefix").NotInListData "tlkpPrefix", "PFX_Prefix", "lfrmPrefix" .Item("cboIDSuffix").NotInListData "tlkpSuffix", "SFX_Suffix", "lfrmSuffix" .Item("cboIDCity").DependentSet fclsfrm.Children("cboIDContactCity") .Item("cboIDST").DblClickFormData = "lfrmState" .Item("cboIDContactCity").NotInListData "tlkpCity", "CI_Name", "lfrmCity" .Item("cboIDContactSt").DblClickFormData = "lfrmState" .Item("cboIDContactCity").DependentSet fclsfrm.Children("cboIDCity") End With End Sub dclsFrm.children is filled with pointers to all classes that it initializes, and the contents of that collection are keyed on the control name, thus I can just "look up" the class by indexing into the collection with the control name. John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Arthur Fuller Sent: Sunday, March 07, 2004 2:14 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: [AccessD] Your favorite control behavior I don't see the advantage to doing it in the OnOpen versus in the NotInList event of the control itself. Either way it's one line of code. Please explain. Arthur From d.dick at uws.edu.au Sun Mar 7 16:31:41 2004 From: d.dick at uws.edu.au (Darren DICK) Date: Mon, 8 Mar 2004 09:31:41 +1100 Subject: [AccessD] Combo-box control tip References: <01e901c4049e$c1336010$6501a8c0@rock> Message-ID: <00a301c40493$f6c2c640$48619a89@DDICK> Hi Arthur have discovered the same thing from time to time Some controls work fine on other apps they don't Try the mouse move event Me.Combo.ControlTipText = "Testing" or something similar Darren ----- Original Message ----- From: "Arthur Fuller" To: "AccessD" Sent: Monday, March 08, 2004 10:48 AM Subject: [AccessD] Combo-box control tip > I added some control-tip text to several combo-boxes, but the text > doesn't appear no matter how long I linger there the controltip does not > appear. I've copied the text into the status bar so I can fake it for > now, but I'd much rather have the control tip working. What am I doing > wrong? I assume that since control tip is supported in the properties > window that it actually works. Na?ve? > > Arthur > > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From jwelz at hotmail.com Sun Mar 7 17:00:40 2004 From: jwelz at hotmail.com (Jürgen Welz) Date: Sun, 07 Mar 2004 16:00:40 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] Your favorite control behavior Message-ID: Correct me if I'm mistaken, but my understanding is that a form has it's own class which you can multi instance in various ways and in which you can create property procedures and do any thing else one can do in a class of your own. It sounds not like you are creating a form class but a separate class to shadow the form class. The downside is needing to know the name of a control in order to be able to operate with it. The advantage of hooking up all default behaviors with a function is that you can pass the procedure a reference to the actual control for which the event is triggered so there is no need for collections or code to run on the form open event. Every copy/paste of a control is automatically hooked up to the standard events without ever writing any code except the single function procedures that all copies of the control trigger. You can override the 'inherited' behaviour by changing the function, writing a specific event procedure or passing in one or more additional optional parameters. Correct me again if I'm mistaken, but this facility to hook up events has been around since Access 1 whereas WithEvents is somewhat newer and more esoteric and less universally understood or used. I suspect that developers coming from a Visual Basic background are less familiar with the advantages of this approach, particularly when they bemoan the lack of control arrays. I suspect this facility is the reason that control arrays were never needed in Access. Like Arthur, it looks to me like you write a great deal more code than the one line each of us uses to hook a contol to a common not in list procedure because you need to write and maintain the framework. Ciao J?rgen Welz Edmonton, Alberta jwelz at hotmail.com >From: "John W. Colby" > >Arthur, > >As I have been discussing in my emails lately I use a framework with >various >classes. One of these is dclsFrm which is the form class. In OnOpen of >the >form I set up the form. Once dclsFrm is initialized it has scanned for all >the controls and loaded a class for each control. If I need to "program" >the control classes, I then do so immediately after initializing the >dclsFrm. The whole form header looks like (error handler stripped out for >readability): > >Option Compare Database >Option Explicit >Public WithEvents fclsfrm As dclsFrm > >Private Sub Form_Open(Cancel As Integer) > Set fclsfrm = New dclsFrm > fclsfrm.Init Nothing, Me, Cancel > If Cancel Then Exit Sub > With fclsfrm.Children > .Item("cboIDCity").NotInListData "tlkpCity", "CI_Name", "lfrmCity" > .Item("cboIDPrefix").NotInListData "tlkpPrefix", "PFX_Prefix", >"lfrmPrefix" > .Item("cboIDSuffix").NotInListData "tlkpSuffix", "SFX_Suffix", >"lfrmSuffix" > .Item("cboIDCity").DependentSet >fclsfrm.Children("cboIDContactCity") > .Item("cboIDST").DblClickFormData = "lfrmState" > .Item("cboIDContactCity").NotInListData "tlkpCity", "CI_Name", >"lfrmCity" > .Item("cboIDContactSt").DblClickFormData = "lfrmState" > .Item("cboIDContactCity").DependentSet >fclsfrm.Children("cboIDCity") > End With >End Sub > >Thus I dimension dclsFrm Withevents (it can raise events that I may want to >sink in the form's class). > >I set the class to a new instance. > > Set fclsfrm = New dclsFrm > >I initialize the dclsfrm passing in Me and the Cancel variable so the Init >can cancel the opening of the form if necessary. > > fclsfrm.Init Nothing, Me, Cancel > >If dclsFrm sets cancel true I exit the sub and allow the form to close > > If Cancel Then Exit Sub > >If I get to that point (cancel is not returned true) then I MAY "set up" >various control classes. In this case I am setting up NotInList and >dblClick events for cboIDCity, cboIDPrefix, cboIDSuffix, and >cboIDContactCity. I am also setting up Dependent combos for cboIDCity >(cboIDContactCity may change if any changes are made to the city table) and >cboIDContactCity (cboIDCity may change if any changes are made to >cboIDContactCity ). > > With fclsfrm.Children > .Item("cboIDCity").NotInListData "tlkpCity", "CI_Name", "lfrmCity" > .Item("cboIDPrefix").NotInListData "tlkpPrefix", "PFX_Prefix", >"lfrmPrefix" > .Item("cboIDSuffix").NotInListData "tlkpSuffix", "SFX_Suffix", >"lfrmSuffix" > .Item("cboIDCity").DependentSet >fclsfrm.Children("cboIDContactCity") > .Item("cboIDST").DblClickFormData = "lfrmState" > .Item("cboIDContactCity").NotInListData "tlkpCity", "CI_Name", >"lfrmCity" > .Item("cboIDContactSt").DblClickFormData = "lfrmState" > .Item("cboIDContactCity").DependentSet >fclsfrm.Children("cboIDCity") > End With >End Sub > >dclsFrm.children is filled with pointers to all classes that it >initializes, >and the contents of that collection are keyed on the control name, thus I >can just "look up" the class by indexing into the collection with the >control name. > > >John W. Colby >www.ColbyConsulting.com > >-----Original Message----- >From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com >[mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Arthur Fuller >Sent: Sunday, March 07, 2004 2:14 PM >To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' >Subject: RE: [AccessD] Your favorite control behavior > > >I don't see the advantage to doing it in the OnOpen versus in the >NotInList event of the control itself. Either way it's one line of code. >Please explain. > >Arthur _________________________________________________________________ http://join.msn.com/?pgmarket=en-ca&page=byoa/prem&xAPID=1994&DI=1034&SU=http://hotmail.com/enca&HL=Market_MSNIS_Taglines From jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com Sun Mar 7 19:48:34 2004 From: jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com (John W. Colby) Date: Sun, 7 Mar 2004 20:48:34 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Your favorite control behavior In-Reply-To: Message-ID: >Correct me if I'm mistaken, but my understanding is that a form has it's own class which you can multi instance in various ways and in which you can create property procedures and do any thing else one can do in a class of your own. It sounds not like you are creating a form class but a separate class to shadow the form class. Yep, you are correct. >The downside is needing to know the name of a control in order to be able to operate with it. To program certain functionality (such as passing in the table / field / form to a combo for NotInList) that is correct. >The advantage of hooking up all default behaviors with a function is that you can pass the procedure a reference to the actual control for which the event is triggered so there is no need for collections or code to run on the form open event. I see no advantage there. My form class scans all of my controls and loads a class for each control. That class hooks up all the functionality for them. I don't have to "make sure" I have cut the control from the right place so that stuff is in the event properties. >Every copy/paste of a control is automatically hooked up to the standard events without ever writing any code except the single function procedures that all copies of the control trigger. So you have replaced writing a few lines of code in the Form's Open (standard, can be cut and pasted) with dozens of cuts and pastes of controls onto the form? Hmmm..... I can definitely see how this might be better.... >You can override the 'inherited' behavior by changing the function, writing a specific event procedure or passing in one or more additional optional parameters. Of course you can. So can I using my framework and control classes. >Correct me again if I'm mistaken, but this facility to hook up events has been around since Access 1 whereas WithEvents is somewhat newer and more esoteric and less universally understood or used. That's like saying "The car has been around a lot less time than the horse so why are we using a car". Sure, Withevents were not around when Access 1.0 came out, and of course this is not applicable to 1.0. More powerful tools are handed to us year after year. To say I am not going to use it because it wasn't available in 1.0 is silly and prevents adapting some very powerful tools. Jurgen, I could care less whether you want to use this stuff. I could care less whether you love hooking functions straight up to the event property. That is an option, and if that is the tool you choose to use, that is your business. I have explained to you why I don't touch that stuff, and why, when I have to take over an app where the previous developer uses that method it pains me greatly. I used to use it, don't get me wrong, it's just that there are tons of disadvantages and only one advantage, your "cut and paste" advantage. That "cut and paste" advantage isn't sufficient in my mind to overcome the disadvantages. In fact that advantage has been neatly replaced by Withevents in classes! You have a SINGLE function that you hook to a property, and you have a bunch of functions that you hook to a bunch of properties. I have a class that I pass a control to. I sink the events in that class, then call various functions of the class from those events. The results are similar, but not identical. I can for instance, turn on/off the behaviors using sysvars. My good friend William Hindman was using some stuff of mine and didn't like some specific things I was doing. I simply "switched it off" for him. Nothing more than "go in the sysvar table and set this sysvar = false. His system didn't use that behavior anymore. Try THAT with your method. A framework is waaaay more than just a function hooked to an event, or even a bunch of functions hooked to a bunch of events. It is a whole system that works together. My control classes talk to the form class. The form class loads SysVars that turn on and off functionality of the framework. I can override a given functionality for the entire application, or just for a given form in the application. The control classes "talk to" the form class and ask whether they should exhibit this behavior? The control class simply doesn't care whether the behavior is turned on / off for the entire application or just this form, all they care about is that they are supposed to exhibit the behavior THIS TIME, RIGHT NOW. Tomorrow the user might want the behavior and I go turn it on using a SysVar. TRY THAT with your "cut and paste" stuff!!! >Like Arthur, it looks to me like you write a great deal more code than the one line each of us uses to hook a control to a common not in list procedure because you need to write and maintain the framework. You are 100% correct. I do write a whole lot more code than you do. In fact I write almost EXACTLY the same code you do, I just make it a part of a whole system rather than an isolated thing that happens. The "way more code" is the stuff required to tie it in and make it a system. When I design a form I don't "cut and paste" a bunch of controls so that they get hooked up properly. My form class loads control classes that hook everything up for me automatically. Whether I have one or a hundred combos on a form, every one can, if it needs it, have any of the various behaviors that the combo class provides. Why in the world would I go somewhere, "cut a control" and paste it in the form a hundred times? Furthermore I can take ANY form, load a form class in that form's Open and have all of my stuff just automatically applied to all of the controls on that form! All the combos suddenly know how to do combo stuff, all the text boxes suddenly know how to do text box stuff. If a given combo needs NotInList (and MANY don't), then a single line of code passes in the correct table / field / form for that combo to know how to do it. Try THAT with your "cut and paste" stuff! I seem to remember butting heads with you in the past. You were always about "the last ounce of (application) speed", and I simply don't care about that last ounce. I am more about speed of development and ease of maintenance. Your "cut and paste" does allow lightweight forms. I could care less. If that is what this is all about, I will hand you your "speed advantage" and you can walk away the winner. I will take my speed of development and ease of maintenance and I too will walk away a winner. I understand what you are doing, I have done it that way in the distant past. Listen to what I am trying to explain where frameworks are concerned, read it, UNDERSTAND it (ALL OF IT), and then if you still love your "cut and paste" stuff... "may the force be with you". And may I never have to maintain your apps! John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of J?rgen Welz Sent: Sunday, March 07, 2004 6:01 PM To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: RE: [AccessD] Your favorite control behavior Correct me if I'm mistaken, but my understanding is that a form has it's own class which you can multi instance in various ways and in which you can create property procedures and do any thing else one can do in a class of your own. It sounds not like you are creating a form class but a separate class to shadow the form class. The downside is needing to know the name of a control in order to be able to operate with it. The advantage of hooking up all default behaviors with a function is that you can pass the procedure a reference to the actual control for which the event is triggered so there is no need for collections or code to run on the form open event. Every copy/paste of a control is automatically hooked up to the standard events without ever writing any code except the single function procedures that all copies of the control trigger. You can override the 'inherited' behaviour by changing the function, writing a specific event procedure or passing in one or more additional optional parameters. Correct me again if I'm mistaken, but this facility to hook up events has been around since Access 1 whereas WithEvents is somewhat newer and more esoteric and less universally understood or used. I suspect that developers coming from a Visual Basic background are less familiar with the advantages of this approach, particularly when they bemoan the lack of control arrays. I suspect this facility is the reason that control arrays were never needed in Access. Like Arthur, it looks to me like you write a great deal more code than the one line each of us uses to hook a contol to a common not in list procedure because you need to write and maintain the framework. Ciao J?rgen Welz Edmonton, Alberta jwelz at hotmail.com From jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com Sun Mar 7 20:31:52 2004 From: jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com (John W. Colby) Date: Sun, 7 Mar 2004 21:31:52 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Your favorite control behavior In-Reply-To: Message-ID: >When it comes to subform tabbing you can store the tab index (me.parent.tabindex), do a one time write of cursor navigation code for the subform (for continuous forms for example) and at EOF, iterate the parent's control's tab index properties and set focus to the next one so the user doesn't know he was ever in a subform. Sounds like one for the framework! Thanks. >Accelerator keys on the labels were an adjunct in the past before I found a really friendly tab order navigation approach for subforms and was fine for users who worked with an application for more than a few weeks. Yes, they are very useful and I use them a lot in my applications . >Now many depend on the Accelerators that Access doesn't give you unless you code them, but tabbing in and out of subforms is handled in a transparent manner. I'll try and figure out what you are talking about. It would be handy to have this. >Standard functions to change display on or off focus don't require search and replace. Any call to a function that is stored directly in a control property requires a search and replace tool to find where it is used. If I am writing code and want to find them, and they are in event stubs - in a class or directly in the form - I can just use the binoculars. If they are in control properties I can't do that. That is disruptive to my work method. >If there's a control that can get focus, the handler is there, always. As it is in my framework. >If the control is disabled, it doesn't fire. Likewise in my framework. >You can also leave in your own search and replace in a development copy of an mdb and document the usage of property sheet function calls. I document these things in a central code repository where all code for a given type of control is stored... the control's class. >The function is aware of the control, if screen.activecontrol is passed and the function can be as aware as WithEvents processing that control A requires one kind of processing and control B another, and you can also pass additional parameters if the function is to provide selective functionality. Of course. But then again in order to change what a given control does you have to go in to the property on that control and do stuff... To change a hundred controls on two dozen forms requires a LOT of hunting and searching. Does this combo on this form use that? Yep. How about this one on that form... nope. This one? Yep. That one... OK, break out the Find and replace and sit there looking at each one to decide... Remember, I've done all that stuff, and I choose not to. I know exactly what you are up to, I used that method for about 6 years until a better (IMHO) tool came along. No, I stopped hooking up events directly to code LONG before that but I was still just calling functions in libraries (from event stubs in the form's class). That works. In fact I built an entire wizard to insert event hooks to call my functions at the tap of a hot key. Been there, cone that, never go back! >I don't know for a fact, but I would suspect there are 20 'developers' who understand the function call that I use to every 1 who could just start working with your framework. I'd bet the ratio was a bit closer to 10,000 to one. On the other hand I'd bet that about 10,000 times as many people could feed and groom a horse as could fix their car. And I've seen some of your code as well Jurgen, it caused MY eyes to cross (and I'm no lightweight when it comes to code). >I'm coming to depend more on WithEvents, especially as I move into other programming languages, but I still find it quicker and less code and easier for most 'developers', like the kind you meet at a local Access users group, to understand the way I've been doing it rather than to understand a particular implementation of someone's framework. Of that I have no doubt. I have frequented many users groups, and to put "developers" in quotes is entirely reasonable. Whether I used a framework or not, I doubt that many of those "developers" are capable of maintaining my (or your) work. That is no reason not to use a framework. You see, the thing is that with a framework, making a form do (generic) things is a few lines of code in the form's OnOpen. Open any of my forms, and you can just read what is being hooked up. I don't spend any time at all getting not in lists going, nor dependent combos, nor JIT subforms, data validation, filtered recordsets, and the dozens of other behaviors that my framework provides. When you build a form you have to define the form's recordset. You have to get specific controls on the form and arrange them. You have to do the design work of THAT form. My framework doesn't eliminate any of that, I still have to do that. Once I have that done, I just add a few lines of code in the OnOpen to set up specific control behaviors that need parameters. If you walk in to my shop because I was killed by a bus and can't figure out my framework, you can just delete a few lines of code and all that stuff goes away and you can tie in your own. There's nothing magical about what I am doing. My NotInList looks pretty much like yours, it's just that mine is embedded in my framework and I don't have to cut and paste controls from somewhere to get it. A line of code passing the table / field / form and that control has that functionality turned on. Without it, the functionality is turned off. Take out the class init stuff entirely and THAT form loses all of the framework's functionality. How do I go about stripping it our of your form when I take over your stuff and hate what you are doing? I know the answer because I have taken over systems with the function calls embedded in control properties. The answer is NOT PRETTY! I was finding function calls in properties for YEARS afterwards. To each his own, and you obviously are happy with what you are doing. I do not like that way of doing things, I have done it that way, I stopped doing it that way, and I will never go back to doing it that way. And when I have to maintain a system where that method was used, my price goes up! John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of J?rgen Welz Sent: Sunday, March 07, 2004 11:58 AM To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: RE: [AccessD] Your favorite control behavior When it comes to subform tabbing you can store the tab index (me.parent.tabindex), do a one time write of cursor navigation code for the subform (for continuous forms for example) and at EOF, iterate the parent's control's tab index properties and set focus to the next one so the user doesn't know he was ever in a subform. Accellerator keys on the labels were an adjunct in the past before I found a really friendly tab order navigation approach for subforms and was fine for users who worked with an application for more than a few weeks. Now many depend on the Accellerators that Access doesn't give you unless you code them, but tabbing in and out of subforms is handled in a transparent manner. Standard functions to change display on or off focus don't require search and replace. If there's a control that can get focus, the handler is there, always. If the control is disabled, it doesn't fire. You can also leave in your own search and replace in a development copy of an mdb and document the usage of property sheet function calls. The function is aware of the control, if screen.activecontrol is passed and the function can be as aware as WithEvents processing that control A requires one kind of processing and control B another, and you can also pass additional parameters if the function is to provide selective functionality. As a general rule, I do not add such additional functionality to fundamental events such as focus. For control arrays such as grids on custom calendar or calculator forms, I find it helpful to hookup the controls by passing in a number that represents the controls position in a grid. For example, a calendar may have 42 labels with mouse click, cursor movement and keyboard navigation events. In a case like this, the controls are in an array of controls in the code behiind the form, lblCal(0 To 41), and the functions are passed the number value of the control (or screen.active control and the number is parsed from the name). In this manner, there is a single event procedure that handles all the buttons or labels for all the controls in the grid. I don't know for a fact, but I would suspect there are 20 'developers' who understand the function call that I use to every 1 who could just start working with your framework. I believe that a client who had to find a developer to take over my application would have very little difficulty finding a replacement for me. I was unsuccessful in using WithEvents to process NotInList in a manner that worked for me. There is not a great deal of multi field parsing involved in my approach. I'll parse names for example, and set a few default values that the user may change. Using single record bound recordsets for a form that displays the kind of record being added, there is no need to change data entry mode because the record is immediately created in the event and the form is navigated to the record for completion. Alternatively, a user can enter a contact from various forms that require an associated contact and often it is enough for an application to have a name when the context from which he was added signifies the kind of contact, the company for which he works and the record to which he is associated. I allow the users to choose to add additional information but it often isn't necessary nor is additional information always required or available. I'm coming to depend more on WithEvents, especially as I move into other programming languages, but I still find it quicker and less code and easier for most 'developers', like the kind you meet at a local Access users group, to understand the way I've been doing it rather than to understand a particular implementation of someone's framework. Ciao J?rgen Welz Edmonton, Alberta jwelz at hotmail.com >From: "John W. Colby" > > >That is almost exactly the way my Notinlist procedure is coded. I also >add >two parameters, one for the target table to which the record will be added >and one for a user name for the type of data to be added. > >My framework has this functionality built in. The developer programs the >framework for each such control in the form's OnOpen with syntax like: > > With fclsfrm.Children > .Item("cboIDCity").NotInListData "tlkpCity", "CI_Name", "lfrmCity" > .Item("cboIDPrefix").NotInListData "tlkpPrefix", "PFX_Prefix", >"lfrmPrefix" > .Item("cboIDSuffix").NotInListData "tlkpSuffix", "SFX_Suffix", >"lfrmSuffix" > .Item("cboIDCity").DependentSet >fclsfrm.Children("cboIDContactCity") > .Item("cboIDST").DblClickFormData = "lfrmState" > .Item("cboIDContactCity").NotInListData "tlkpCity", "CI_Name", >"lfrmCity" > .Item("cboIDContactSt").DblClickFormData = "lfrmState" > .Item("cboIDContactCity").DependentSet >fclsfrm.Children("cboIDCity") > End With > >This is actual code taken from the Open of a form in an application. You >can also see the calls to set up "dependent object processing" for combos >that have other combos that need requerying when they are changed. > >For the NotInList processing, as you can see I specify the combo name to >find the class for in a collection of classes - .Item("cboIDCity"), then >specify a method of that class that I will pass parameters into - >.NotInListData, then pass in the table name, field name, and a form to open >if the double click is used. If the form is missing, the double click is >disabled. If the table and field are missing but the form is there, then >the NotInList is disabled. There are tables that a combo can display data >from that have multiple fields that may need editing. > >In addition, my code that opens the form takes the PK of the item currently >selected and looks up that record, so that when the form opens it is >already >on that record waiting to be edited. > > >I just set a single record recordset for the existing form to the record >that is added and it displays the new data in the appropriate field or >fields. > >I tried doing multi-field parsing and such and it just got too messy and >confusing to the user. If the table has multiple fields, I open an edit >form, take the data the user just typed that wasn't in list and make that >data the "default value" of the control on the form for the data displayed >in the combo. For example if the user is typing in an SSN of a person ad >it >is not in list, there are waaaay to many fields to fill in for a new person >to just do it without a form, so I open the form in Add mode, and place >that >SSN in the ssn field on the form. > >This is all done using the combo control class communicating with the form >class. The control class opens the new form and passes in OpenArgs. The >form class discovers it has openargs, loads an OpenArgs class which parses >the OpenArgs and processes any standard OpenArgs such as the one to find >the >control and make the data the DefaultValue. > > >in the On Got Focus entry in the property you could enter: >=OnFocus([Screen].[Activecontrol]) > >Unfortunately doing things that way has several major drawbacks. > >1) You can't use the Find in a code module to find everywhere that function >is called since the call to the function isn't in code. I realize that it >can be found from a search utility such as speedferret or Find and Replace >but that means that you now have to switch focus and go to that utility. > >2) You can't add other functionality to that event since you are specifying >that YOUR function be called. There is no generic event stub for adding >additional processing to. > >3) Programs such as my framework which need to hook events just write >MyCtl.SomeEvent = "[EventProcedure]" in order to hook the event and cause >Access to route processing to the event stub. Your custom processing would >just disappear now. > >Using this method is fine if you are the only developer who will ever touch >your app (and unfortunately many developers simply don't care about the guy >that comes along behind). You know you do that, you love doing that and >you >are happy with it. God forbid you get hit by a bus and I have to take over >maintenance of your app because I will be cursing your name for the rest of >the life of that application (or until I get the mess straightened out). > > >Another nice means to hookup events automatically is to create a control >combination, or even a single control, encapsulated on a sub form all by >itself. > >My only problem with using subforms in this manner is the frustration of >getting the cursor movement to work correctly. The user is tabbing along >filling in data and hits a subform and has to then use special keys to get >out of the thing and into the next control to be filled in. A custom class >that has all the required processing that your form class has gives me all >(most) of the advantages that you mention without the "cursor movement" >issues since the control is now in my main form. The only thing I don't >get >is the "drag and drop and I'm done". I do have to dimension the class, >initialize it, and clean it up when I am done. I am so used to using >classes now though that this is a 60 second thing. > >On the other hand, if this really is so generic that I use it all the time, >I use a naming convention such that as a combo or list class loads it looks >at it's name and hooks in the calls to that class to do the special >processing for it. Then you are right back to drag and drop convenience. >I >do this for the record selector combos at the top of my forms. They use a >naming convention and my combo class just "knows" that this is a record >selector and when an item is selected in that combo the combo class finds >the record selected and causes the form to display it. > >John W. Colby >www.ColbyConsulting.com > >-----Original Message----- >From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com >[mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of J?rgen Welz >Sent: Sunday, March 07, 2004 1:09 AM >To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com >Subject: RE: [AccessD] Your favorite control behavior > > >That is almost exactly the way my Notinlist procedure is coded. I also add >two parameters, one for the target table to which the record will be added >and one for a user name for the type of data to be added. I guess the only >difference is that I don't open a separate data entry form. I just set a >single record recordset for the existing form to the record that is added >and it displays the new data in the appropriate field or fields. > >For things like date fields or lookups, I create them once on a template >form and then copy from there to the form on which I need it displayed. >Although you can use WithEvents and hook up controls, I haven't found a way >to do this with the Notinlist parameters. I have found that just about >every event that I may want to use WithEvents for, I can instead create a >public function procedure for. For a control that displays a date for >which >I want a calendar to pop on double click and to change backcolor when it >gets focus and revert to a non-focus backcolor when focus is lost, or >respond to mouse move events, I can call the public procedure, usually >passing in screen.activecontrol by using the function name rather than >[eventprocedure] in the property sheet. When I copy and paste a date >control from my template form into a new target form, it is completely >hooked up to all standard events. Retrieving the form container name only >requires the code to check the parent property of the active control. For >example, if you open the event property sheet for a conventional textbox, >in >the On Got Focus entry in the property you could enter: > >=OnFocus([Screen].[Activecontrol]) > >and in the On Lost Focus entyr you could enter: > >=OffFocus([Screen].[Activecontrol]) > >Then in a public module: > >Public Function OnFocus(ctl As Control) > ctl.BackColor = vbWhite 'or some standard constant >End Function >Public Function OffFocus(ctl As Control) > ctl.BackColor = -2147483633 'or some constant that can be set >End Function > >You can check for control type being a combo and call .DropDown in the >OnFocus or write a separate OnFocusCombo procedure. The whole point is >that >the event procedures are hooked up when you paste a copy of the control as >the event properties are copied with the control. > >Another nice means to hookup events automatically is to create a control >combination, or even a single control, encapsulated on a sub form all by >itself. The control comes with its own class module in the code behind the >subform. I have found this a great way to hookup something like a callback >based list of municipalities with a not in list that can be made aware of >the need to requery the data array when there is an addition or change to a >municipality record. No need to create a new copy of the control on >multiple forms, just drag the subform container on and you get format and >events all done. > >Ciao >J?rgen Welz >Edmonton, Alberta >jwelz at hotmail.com > > > > > > >From: "Arthur Fuller" > > > >I have a function called aaNotInList() which takes the same parms as the > >NotInList function and adds two new ones -- the name of the form to open > >when adding an item, and the "human" name of said entity, the latter > >just to pretty up the messagebox that comes up. The functon asks if you > >want to add a new "XXX" (4th parm) and if so opens the specified form, > >which uses the typical code to hide itself on OK and close itself on > >Cancel. Then the function does the usual "add to list and accept the > >value" and closes the form. It works great but I still have to type in > >that line of code every time I need one. Not that one line of code is a > >major hassle, I guess, but can you think of a class-based way to do > >this? It might be more fun to do it that way. > > > >Arthur _________________________________________________________________ MSN Premium includes powerful parental controls and get 2 months FREE* http://join.msn.com/?pgmarket=en-ca&page=byoa/prem&xAPID=1994&DI=1034&SU=htt p://hotmail.com/enca&HL=Market_MSNIS_Taglines -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From andrew.haslett at ilc.gov.au Sun Mar 7 20:41:18 2004 From: andrew.haslett at ilc.gov.au (Haslett, Andrew) Date: Mon, 8 Mar 2004 13:11:18 +1030 Subject: [AccessD] Your favorite control behavior Message-ID: I always thought it was "I couldn't care less". Anyway, very interesting discussion. John, not sure if you've looked into yet, but the .Net languages (and many other OO languages I presume) will provide you with a lot of support for what you are trying to implement with your framework. Inherting your pages / controls from a base class will be ideal to 'inherit' common functionality that it seems you are doing. Custom controls (reusable) alse offer the capabilities you are creating with your framework. I haven't looked in detail at your framework or anything - just been browsing these discussions, but was interested to know if you've looked into .Net yet.., as I think you would find it quite interesting. Cheers, A -----Original Message----- From: John W. Colby [mailto:jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com] Sent: Monday, 8 March 2004 12:19 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] Your favorite control behavior >Correct me if I'm mistaken, but my understanding is that a form has >it's own class which you can multi instance in various ways and in which you can create property procedures and do any thing else one can do in a class of your own. It sounds not like you are creating a form class but a separate class to shadow the form class. Yep, you are correct. >The downside is needing to know the name of a control in order to be >able to operate with it. To program certain functionality (such as passing in the table / field / form to a combo for NotInList) that is correct. >The advantage of hooking up all default behaviors with a function is >that you can pass the procedure a reference to the actual control for which the event is triggered so there is no need for collections or code to run on the form open event. I see no advantage there. My form class scans all of my controls and loads a class for each control. That class hooks up all the functionality for them. I don't have to "make sure" I have cut the control from the right place so that stuff is in the event properties. >Every copy/paste of a control is automatically hooked up to the >standard events without ever writing any code except the single function procedures that all copies of the control trigger. So you have replaced writing a few lines of code in the Form's Open (standard, can be cut and pasted) with dozens of cuts and pastes of controls onto the form? Hmmm..... I can definitely see how this might be better.... >You can override the 'inherited' behavior by changing the function, >writing a specific event procedure or passing in one or more additional optional parameters. Of course you can. So can I using my framework and control classes. >Correct me again if I'm mistaken, but this facility to hook up events >has been around since Access 1 whereas WithEvents is somewhat newer and more esoteric and less universally understood or used. That's like saying "The car has been around a lot less time than the horse so why are we using a car". Sure, Withevents were not around when Access 1.0 came out, and of course this is not applicable to 1.0. More powerful tools are handed to us year after year. To say I am not going to use it because it wasn't available in 1.0 is silly and prevents adapting some very powerful tools. Jurgen, I could care less whether you want to use this stuff. I could care less whether you love hooking functions straight up to the event property. That is an option, and if that is the tool you choose to use, that is your business. I have explained to you why I don't touch that stuff, and why, when I have to take over an app where the previous developer uses that method it pains me greatly. I used to use it, don't get me wrong, it's just that there are tons of disadvantages and only one advantage, your "cut and paste" advantage. That "cut and paste" advantage isn't sufficient in my mind to overcome the disadvantages. In fact that advantage has been neatly replaced by Withevents in classes! You have a SINGLE function that you hook to a property, and you have a bunch of functions that you hook to a bunch of properties. I have a class that I pass a control to. I sink the events in that class, then call various functions of the class from those events. The results are similar, but not identical. I can for instance, turn on/off the behaviors using sysvars. My good friend William Hindman was using some stuff of mine and didn't like some specific things I was doing. I simply "switched it off" for him. Nothing more than "go in the sysvar table and set this sysvar = false. His system didn't use that behavior anymore. Try THAT with your method. A framework is waaaay more than just a function hooked to an event, or even a bunch of functions hooked to a bunch of events. It is a whole system that works together. My control classes talk to the form class. The form class loads SysVars that turn on and off functionality of the framework. I can override a given functionality for the entire application, or just for a given form in the application. The control classes "talk to" the form class and ask whether they should exhibit this behavior? The control class simply doesn't care whether the behavior is turned on / off for the entire application or just this form, all they care about is that they are supposed to exhibit the behavior THIS TIME, RIGHT NOW. Tomorrow the user might want the behavior and I go turn it on using a SysVar. TRY THAT with your "cut and paste" stuff!!! >Like Arthur, it looks to me like you write a great deal more code than >the one line each of us uses to hook a control to a common not in list procedure because you need to write and maintain the framework. You are 100% correct. I do write a whole lot more code than you do. In fact I write almost EXACTLY the same code you do, I just make it a part of a whole system rather than an isolated thing that happens. The "way more code" is the stuff required to tie it in and make it a system. When I design a form I don't "cut and paste" a bunch of controls so that they get hooked up properly. My form class loads control classes that hook everything up for me automatically. Whether I have one or a hundred combos on a form, every one can, if it needs it, have any of the various behaviors that the combo class provides. Why in the world would I go somewhere, "cut a control" and paste it in the form a hundred times? Furthermore I can take ANY form, load a form class in that form's Open and have all of my stuff just automatically applied to all of the controls on that form! All the combos suddenly know how to do combo stuff, all the text boxes suddenly know how to do text box stuff. If a given combo needs NotInList (and MANY don't), then a single line of code passes in the correct table / field / form for that combo to know how to do it. Try THAT with your "cut and paste" stuff! I seem to remember butting heads with you in the past. You were always about "the last ounce of (application) speed", and I simply don't care about that last ounce. I am more about speed of development and ease of maintenance. Your "cut and paste" does allow lightweight forms. I could care less. If that is what this is all about, I will hand you your "speed advantage" and you can walk away the winner. I will take my speed of development and ease of maintenance and I too will walk away a winner. I understand what you are doing, I have done it that way in the distant past. Listen to what I am trying to explain where frameworks are concerned, read it, UNDERSTAND it (ALL OF IT), and then if you still love your "cut and paste" stuff... "may the force be with you". And may I never have to maintain your apps! John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of J?rgen Welz Sent: Sunday, March 07, 2004 6:01 PM To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: RE: [AccessD] Your favorite control behavior Correct me if I'm mistaken, but my understanding is that a form has it's own class which you can multi instance in various ways and in which you can create property procedures and do any thing else one can do in a class of your own. It sounds not like you are creating a form class but a separate class to shadow the form class. The downside is needing to know the name of a control in order to be able to operate with it. The advantage of hooking up all default behaviors with a function is that you can pass the procedure a reference to the actual control for which the event is triggered so there is no need for collections or code to run on the form open event. Every copy/paste of a control is automatically hooked up to the standard events without ever writing any code except the single function procedures that all copies of the control trigger. You can override the 'inherited' behaviour by changing the function, writing a specific event procedure or passing in one or more additional optional parameters. Correct me again if I'm mistaken, but this facility to hook up events has been around since Access 1 whereas WithEvents is somewhat newer and more esoteric and less universally understood or used. I suspect that developers coming from a Visual Basic background are less familiar with the advantages of this approach, particularly when they bemoan the lack of control arrays. I suspect this facility is the reason that control arrays were never needed in Access. Like Arthur, it looks to me like you write a great deal more code than the one line each of us uses to hook a contol to a common not in list procedure because you need to write and maintain the framework. Ciao J?rgen Welz Edmonton, Alberta jwelz at hotmail.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com IMPORTANT - PLEASE READ ******************** This email and any files transmitted with it are confidential and may contain information protected by law from disclosure. If you have received this message in error, please notify the sender immediately and delete this email from your system. No warranty is given that this email or files, if attached to this email, are free from computer viruses or other defects. They are provided on the basis the user assumes all responsibility for loss, damage or consequence resulting directly or indirectly from their use, whether caused by the negligence of the sender or not. From jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com Sun Mar 7 20:53:50 2004 From: jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com (John W. Colby) Date: Sun, 7 Mar 2004 21:53:50 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Your favorite control behavior In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Andrew, Yes, I am (slowly) learning .net. It's OO stuff is enough to make me drool. Unfortunately it's database stuff is weak and I am a database developer. Stick around (if you are an Access developer) for the framework discussion. Access' inheritance is non-existant so we use workarounds. If I could just inherit the form class and add my stuff I probably would do that but I can't. And of course controls don't have a class at all. Look in .net and a control is just a class that you can inherit like any other class. NICE!!! Lacking that in Access, classes out in a lib is a poor man's substitute and is what I am up to. John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Haslett, Andrew Sent: Sunday, March 07, 2004 9:41 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: [AccessD] Your favorite control behavior I always thought it was "I couldn't care less". Anyway, very interesting discussion. John, not sure if you've looked into yet, but the .Net languages (and many other OO languages I presume) will provide you with a lot of support for what you are trying to implement with your framework. Inherting your pages / controls from a base class will be ideal to 'inherit' common functionality that it seems you are doing. Custom controls (reusable) alse offer the capabilities you are creating with your framework. I haven't looked in detail at your framework or anything - just been browsing these discussions, but was interested to know if you've looked into .Net yet.., as I think you would find it quite interesting. Cheers, A -----Original Message----- From: John W. Colby [mailto:jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com] Sent: Monday, 8 March 2004 12:19 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] Your favorite control behavior >Correct me if I'm mistaken, but my understanding is that a form has >it's own class which you can multi instance in various ways and in which you can create property procedures and do any thing else one can do in a class of your own. It sounds not like you are creating a form class but a separate class to shadow the form class. Yep, you are correct. >The downside is needing to know the name of a control in order to be >able to operate with it. To program certain functionality (such as passing in the table / field / form to a combo for NotInList) that is correct. >The advantage of hooking up all default behaviors with a function is >that you can pass the procedure a reference to the actual control for which the event is triggered so there is no need for collections or code to run on the form open event. I see no advantage there. My form class scans all of my controls and loads a class for each control. That class hooks up all the functionality for them. I don't have to "make sure" I have cut the control from the right place so that stuff is in the event properties. >Every copy/paste of a control is automatically hooked up to the >standard events without ever writing any code except the single function procedures that all copies of the control trigger. So you have replaced writing a few lines of code in the Form's Open (standard, can be cut and pasted) with dozens of cuts and pastes of controls onto the form? Hmmm..... I can definitely see how this might be better.... >You can override the 'inherited' behavior by changing the function, >writing a specific event procedure or passing in one or more additional optional parameters. Of course you can. So can I using my framework and control classes. >Correct me again if I'm mistaken, but this facility to hook up events >has been around since Access 1 whereas WithEvents is somewhat newer and more esoteric and less universally understood or used. That's like saying "The car has been around a lot less time than the horse so why are we using a car". Sure, Withevents were not around when Access 1.0 came out, and of course this is not applicable to 1.0. More powerful tools are handed to us year after year. To say I am not going to use it because it wasn't available in 1.0 is silly and prevents adapting some very powerful tools. Jurgen, I could care less whether you want to use this stuff. I could care less whether you love hooking functions straight up to the event property. That is an option, and if that is the tool you choose to use, that is your business. I have explained to you why I don't touch that stuff, and why, when I have to take over an app where the previous developer uses that method it pains me greatly. I used to use it, don't get me wrong, it's just that there are tons of disadvantages and only one advantage, your "cut and paste" advantage. That "cut and paste" advantage isn't sufficient in my mind to overcome the disadvantages. In fact that advantage has been neatly replaced by Withevents in classes! You have a SINGLE function that you hook to a property, and you have a bunch of functions that you hook to a bunch of properties. I have a class that I pass a control to. I sink the events in that class, then call various functions of the class from those events. The results are similar, but not identical. I can for instance, turn on/off the behaviors using sysvars. My good friend William Hindman was using some stuff of mine and didn't like some specific things I was doing. I simply "switched it off" for him. Nothing more than "go in the sysvar table and set this sysvar = false. His system didn't use that behavior anymore. Try THAT with your method. A framework is waaaay more than just a function hooked to an event, or even a bunch of functions hooked to a bunch of events. It is a whole system that works together. My control classes talk to the form class. The form class loads SysVars that turn on and off functionality of the framework. I can override a given functionality for the entire application, or just for a given form in the application. The control classes "talk to" the form class and ask whether they should exhibit this behavior? The control class simply doesn't care whether the behavior is turned on / off for the entire application or just this form, all they care about is that they are supposed to exhibit the behavior THIS TIME, RIGHT NOW. Tomorrow the user might want the behavior and I go turn it on using a SysVar. TRY THAT with your "cut and paste" stuff!!! >Like Arthur, it looks to me like you write a great deal more code than >the one line each of us uses to hook a control to a common not in list procedure because you need to write and maintain the framework. You are 100% correct. I do write a whole lot more code than you do. In fact I write almost EXACTLY the same code you do, I just make it a part of a whole system rather than an isolated thing that happens. The "way more code" is the stuff required to tie it in and make it a system. When I design a form I don't "cut and paste" a bunch of controls so that they get hooked up properly. My form class loads control classes that hook everything up for me automatically. Whether I have one or a hundred combos on a form, every one can, if it needs it, have any of the various behaviors that the combo class provides. Why in the world would I go somewhere, "cut a control" and paste it in the form a hundred times? Furthermore I can take ANY form, load a form class in that form's Open and have all of my stuff just automatically applied to all of the controls on that form! All the combos suddenly know how to do combo stuff, all the text boxes suddenly know how to do text box stuff. If a given combo needs NotInList (and MANY don't), then a single line of code passes in the correct table / field / form for that combo to know how to do it. Try THAT with your "cut and paste" stuff! I seem to remember butting heads with you in the past. You were always about "the last ounce of (application) speed", and I simply don't care about that last ounce. I am more about speed of development and ease of maintenance. Your "cut and paste" does allow lightweight forms. I could care less. If that is what this is all about, I will hand you your "speed advantage" and you can walk away the winner. I will take my speed of development and ease of maintenance and I too will walk away a winner. I understand what you are doing, I have done it that way in the distant past. Listen to what I am trying to explain where frameworks are concerned, read it, UNDERSTAND it (ALL OF IT), and then if you still love your "cut and paste" stuff... "may the force be with you". And may I never have to maintain your apps! John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of J?rgen Welz Sent: Sunday, March 07, 2004 6:01 PM To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: RE: [AccessD] Your favorite control behavior Correct me if I'm mistaken, but my understanding is that a form has it's own class which you can multi instance in various ways and in which you can create property procedures and do any thing else one can do in a class of your own. It sounds not like you are creating a form class but a separate class to shadow the form class. The downside is needing to know the name of a control in order to be able to operate with it. The advantage of hooking up all default behaviors with a function is that you can pass the procedure a reference to the actual control for which the event is triggered so there is no need for collections or code to run on the form open event. Every copy/paste of a control is automatically hooked up to the standard events without ever writing any code except the single function procedures that all copies of the control trigger. You can override the 'inherited' behaviour by changing the function, writing a specific event procedure or passing in one or more additional optional parameters. Correct me again if I'm mistaken, but this facility to hook up events has been around since Access 1 whereas WithEvents is somewhat newer and more esoteric and less universally understood or used. I suspect that developers coming from a Visual Basic background are less familiar with the advantages of this approach, particularly when they bemoan the lack of control arrays. I suspect this facility is the reason that control arrays were never needed in Access. Like Arthur, it looks to me like you write a great deal more code than the one line each of us uses to hook a contol to a common not in list procedure because you need to write and maintain the framework. Ciao J?rgen Welz Edmonton, Alberta jwelz at hotmail.com From andrew.haslett at ilc.gov.au Sun Mar 7 21:17:42 2004 From: andrew.haslett at ilc.gov.au (Haslett, Andrew) Date: Mon, 8 Mar 2004 13:47:42 +1030 Subject: [AccessD] Your favorite control behavior Message-ID: Yep - I've been dev. In Access since 1.1 and love it, but tend to do very little consulting these days, simply as I find distributed applications and the related new technologies more interesting. I've been a little hesitant to jump on the bandwagon as I've always felt the form and report designer in Access was about as good as it gets, however Visual Studio.Net compares nicely. The ability to create custom controls (as classes) and expose custom properties and methods is awesome in .Net, and something I've used extensively throughout my applications. Interested to read your comments about the database element. I'm an MCDBA myself and have found the new objects in .Net used to connect to data stores, a huge improvement over previous versions. You must remember that the data stores for your applications are not 'embedded' in your application as they are in Access, and so obviously aren't going to have the same 'native' functionality, however this is inherent about distributed applications. To make the framework flexible, allowing multiple data sources, such as DB/XML/Web Services/etc -> that sort of functionality is simply not possible.. If that is what you're getting at, it only takes a bit of getting used to and you come to grips with disconnected data connections. I guess it was a little easier for me as I've developed web apps for quite some time and this methodology has been required throughout. I also imagine it would take a little getting used to binding your controls to data-sources, which is inherently easier in Access due to its embedded data-source, but again it's necessary (and often an advantage) in disconnected apps and there are tools provided (in VS.Net) to help with this process. I will continue to follow any framework discussions with interest. I'm also looking forward to upcoming versions of Access where perhaps the 'best of both worlds' will combine - even though I sense many here are not.. Cheers, Andrew -----Original Message----- From: John W. Colby [mailto:jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com] Sent: Monday, 8 March 2004 1:24 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] Your favorite control behavior Andrew, Yes, I am (slowly) learning .net. It's OO stuff is enough to make me drool. Unfortunately it's database stuff is weak and I am a database developer. Stick around (if you are an Access developer) for the framework discussion. Access' inheritance is non-existant so we use workarounds. If I could just inherit the form class and add my stuff I probably would do that but I can't. And of course controls don't have a class at all. Look in .net and a control is just a class that you can inherit like any other class. NICE!!! Lacking that in Access, classes out in a lib is a poor man's substitute and is what I am up to. John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Haslett, Andrew Sent: Sunday, March 07, 2004 9:41 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: [AccessD] Your favorite control behavior I always thought it was "I couldn't care less". Anyway, very interesting discussion. John, not sure if you've looked into yet, but the .Net languages (and many other OO languages I presume) will provide you with a lot of support for what you are trying to implement with your framework. Inherting your pages / controls from a base class will be ideal to 'inherit' common functionality that it seems you are doing. Custom controls (reusable) alse offer the capabilities you are creating with your framework. I haven't looked in detail at your framework or anything - just been browsing these discussions, but was interested to know if you've looked into .Net yet.., as I think you would find it quite interesting. Cheers, A -----Original Message----- From: John W. Colby [mailto:jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com] Sent: Monday, 8 March 2004 12:19 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] Your favorite control behavior >Correct me if I'm mistaken, but my understanding is that a form has >it's own class which you can multi instance in various ways and in which you can create property procedures and do any thing else one can do in a class of your own. It sounds not like you are creating a form class but a separate class to shadow the form class. Yep, you are correct. >The downside is needing to know the name of a control in order to be >able to operate with it. To program certain functionality (such as passing in the table / field / form to a combo for NotInList) that is correct. >The advantage of hooking up all default behaviors with a function is >that you can pass the procedure a reference to the actual control for which the event is triggered so there is no need for collections or code to run on the form open event. I see no advantage there. My form class scans all of my controls and loads a class for each control. That class hooks up all the functionality for them. I don't have to "make sure" I have cut the control from the right place so that stuff is in the event properties. >Every copy/paste of a control is automatically hooked up to the >standard events without ever writing any code except the single function procedures that all copies of the control trigger. So you have replaced writing a few lines of code in the Form's Open (standard, can be cut and pasted) with dozens of cuts and pastes of controls onto the form? Hmmm..... I can definitely see how this might be better.... >You can override the 'inherited' behavior by changing the function, >writing a specific event procedure or passing in one or more additional optional parameters. Of course you can. So can I using my framework and control classes. >Correct me again if I'm mistaken, but this facility to hook up events >has been around since Access 1 whereas WithEvents is somewhat newer and more esoteric and less universally understood or used. That's like saying "The car has been around a lot less time than the horse so why are we using a car". Sure, Withevents were not around when Access 1.0 came out, and of course this is not applicable to 1.0. More powerful tools are handed to us year after year. To say I am not going to use it because it wasn't available in 1.0 is silly and prevents adapting some very powerful tools. Jurgen, I could care less whether you want to use this stuff. I could care less whether you love hooking functions straight up to the event property. That is an option, and if that is the tool you choose to use, that is your business. I have explained to you why I don't touch that stuff, and why, when I have to take over an app where the previous developer uses that method it pains me greatly. I used to use it, don't get me wrong, it's just that there are tons of disadvantages and only one advantage, your "cut and paste" advantage. That "cut and paste" advantage isn't sufficient in my mind to overcome the disadvantages. In fact that advantage has been neatly replaced by Withevents in classes! You have a SINGLE function that you hook to a property, and you have a bunch of functions that you hook to a bunch of properties. I have a class that I pass a control to. I sink the events in that class, then call various functions of the class from those events. The results are similar, but not identical. I can for instance, turn on/off the behaviors using sysvars. My good friend William Hindman was using some stuff of mine and didn't like some specific things I was doing. I simply "switched it off" for him. Nothing more than "go in the sysvar table and set this sysvar = false. His system didn't use that behavior anymore. Try THAT with your method. A framework is waaaay more than just a function hooked to an event, or even a bunch of functions hooked to a bunch of events. It is a whole system that works together. My control classes talk to the form class. The form class loads SysVars that turn on and off functionality of the framework. I can override a given functionality for the entire application, or just for a given form in the application. The control classes "talk to" the form class and ask whether they should exhibit this behavior? The control class simply doesn't care whether the behavior is turned on / off for the entire application or just this form, all they care about is that they are supposed to exhibit the behavior THIS TIME, RIGHT NOW. Tomorrow the user might want the behavior and I go turn it on using a SysVar. TRY THAT with your "cut and paste" stuff!!! >Like Arthur, it looks to me like you write a great deal more code than >the one line each of us uses to hook a control to a common not in list procedure because you need to write and maintain the framework. You are 100% correct. I do write a whole lot more code than you do. In fact I write almost EXACTLY the same code you do, I just make it a part of a whole system rather than an isolated thing that happens. The "way more code" is the stuff required to tie it in and make it a system. When I design a form I don't "cut and paste" a bunch of controls so that they get hooked up properly. My form class loads control classes that hook everything up for me automatically. Whether I have one or a hundred combos on a form, every one can, if it needs it, have any of the various behaviors that the combo class provides. Why in the world would I go somewhere, "cut a control" and paste it in the form a hundred times? Furthermore I can take ANY form, load a form class in that form's Open and have all of my stuff just automatically applied to all of the controls on that form! All the combos suddenly know how to do combo stuff, all the text boxes suddenly know how to do text box stuff. If a given combo needs NotInList (and MANY don't), then a single line of code passes in the correct table / field / form for that combo to know how to do it. Try THAT with your "cut and paste" stuff! I seem to remember butting heads with you in the past. You were always about "the last ounce of (application) speed", and I simply don't care about that last ounce. I am more about speed of development and ease of maintenance. Your "cut and paste" does allow lightweight forms. I could care less. If that is what this is all about, I will hand you your "speed advantage" and you can walk away the winner. I will take my speed of development and ease of maintenance and I too will walk away a winner. I understand what you are doing, I have done it that way in the distant past. Listen to what I am trying to explain where frameworks are concerned, read it, UNDERSTAND it (ALL OF IT), and then if you still love your "cut and paste" stuff... "may the force be with you". And may I never have to maintain your apps! John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of J?rgen Welz Sent: Sunday, March 07, 2004 6:01 PM To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: RE: [AccessD] Your favorite control behavior Correct me if I'm mistaken, but my understanding is that a form has it's own class which you can multi instance in various ways and in which you can create property procedures and do any thing else one can do in a class of your own. It sounds not like you are creating a form class but a separate class to shadow the form class. The downside is needing to know the name of a control in order to be able to operate with it. The advantage of hooking up all default behaviors with a function is that you can pass the procedure a reference to the actual control for which the event is triggered so there is no need for collections or code to run on the form open event. Every copy/paste of a control is automatically hooked up to the standard events without ever writing any code except the single function procedures that all copies of the control trigger. You can override the 'inherited' behaviour by changing the function, writing a specific event procedure or passing in one or more additional optional parameters. Correct me again if I'm mistaken, but this facility to hook up events has been around since Access 1 whereas WithEvents is somewhat newer and more esoteric and less universally understood or used. I suspect that developers coming from a Visual Basic background are less familiar with the advantages of this approach, particularly when they bemoan the lack of control arrays. I suspect this facility is the reason that control arrays were never needed in Access. Like Arthur, it looks to me like you write a great deal more code than the one line each of us uses to hook a contol to a common not in list procedure because you need to write and maintain the framework. Ciao J?rgen Welz Edmonton, Alberta jwelz at hotmail.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com IMPORTANT - PLEASE READ ******************** This email and any files transmitted with it are confidential and may contain information protected by law from disclosure. If you have received this message in error, please notify the sender immediately and delete this email from your system. No warranty is given that this email or files, if attached to this email, are free from computer viruses or other defects. They are provided on the basis the user assumes all responsibility for loss, damage or consequence resulting directly or indirectly from their use, whether caused by the negligence of the sender or not. From jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com Sun Mar 7 21:53:12 2004 From: jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com (John W. Colby) Date: Sun, 7 Mar 2004 22:53:12 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Your favorite control behavior In-Reply-To: Message-ID: >The ability to create custom controls (as classes) and expose custom properties and methods is awesome in .Net, and something I've used extensively throughout my applications. And don't you worry that the "developers" out there won't understand your stuff? John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Haslett, Andrew Sent: Sunday, March 07, 2004 10:18 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: [AccessD] Your favorite control behavior Yep - I've been dev. In Access since 1.1 and love it, but tend to do very little consulting these days, simply as I find distributed applications and the related new technologies more interesting. I've been a little hesitant to jump on the bandwagon as I've always felt the form and report designer in Access was about as good as it gets, however Visual Studio.Net compares nicely. The ability to create custom controls (as classes) and expose custom properties and methods is awesome in .Net, and something I've used extensively throughout my applications. Interested to read your comments about the database element. I'm an MCDBA myself and have found the new objects in .Net used to connect to data stores, a huge improvement over previous versions. You must remember that the data stores for your applications are not 'embedded' in your application as they are in Access, and so obviously aren't going to have the same 'native' functionality, however this is inherent about distributed applications. To make the framework flexible, allowing multiple data sources, such as DB/XML/Web Services/etc -> that sort of functionality is simply not possible.. If that is what you're getting at, it only takes a bit of getting used to and you come to grips with disconnected data connections. I guess it was a little easier for me as I've developed web apps for quite some time and this methodology has been required throughout. I also imagine it would take a little getting used to binding your controls to data-sources, which is inherently easier in Access due to its embedded data-source, but again it's necessary (and often an advantage) in disconnected apps and there are tools provided (in VS.Net) to help with this process. I will continue to follow any framework discussions with interest. I'm also looking forward to upcoming versions of Access where perhaps the 'best of both worlds' will combine - even though I sense many here are not.. Cheers, Andrew -----Original Message----- From: John W. Colby [mailto:jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com] Sent: Monday, 8 March 2004 1:24 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] Your favorite control behavior Andrew, Yes, I am (slowly) learning .net. It's OO stuff is enough to make me drool. Unfortunately it's database stuff is weak and I am a database developer. Stick around (if you are an Access developer) for the framework discussion. Access' inheritance is non-existant so we use workarounds. If I could just inherit the form class and add my stuff I probably would do that but I can't. And of course controls don't have a class at all. Look in .net and a control is just a class that you can inherit like any other class. NICE!!! Lacking that in Access, classes out in a lib is a poor man's substitute and is what I am up to. John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Haslett, Andrew Sent: Sunday, March 07, 2004 9:41 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: [AccessD] Your favorite control behavior I always thought it was "I couldn't care less". Anyway, very interesting discussion. John, not sure if you've looked into yet, but the .Net languages (and many other OO languages I presume) will provide you with a lot of support for what you are trying to implement with your framework. Inherting your pages / controls from a base class will be ideal to 'inherit' common functionality that it seems you are doing. Custom controls (reusable) alse offer the capabilities you are creating with your framework. I haven't looked in detail at your framework or anything - just been browsing these discussions, but was interested to know if you've looked into .Net yet.., as I think you would find it quite interesting. Cheers, A -----Original Message----- From: John W. Colby [mailto:jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com] Sent: Monday, 8 March 2004 12:19 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] Your favorite control behavior >Correct me if I'm mistaken, but my understanding is that a form has >it's own class which you can multi instance in various ways and in which you can create property procedures and do any thing else one can do in a class of your own. It sounds not like you are creating a form class but a separate class to shadow the form class. Yep, you are correct. >The downside is needing to know the name of a control in order to be >able to operate with it. To program certain functionality (such as passing in the table / field / form to a combo for NotInList) that is correct. >The advantage of hooking up all default behaviors with a function is >that you can pass the procedure a reference to the actual control for which the event is triggered so there is no need for collections or code to run on the form open event. I see no advantage there. My form class scans all of my controls and loads a class for each control. That class hooks up all the functionality for them. I don't have to "make sure" I have cut the control from the right place so that stuff is in the event properties. >Every copy/paste of a control is automatically hooked up to the >standard events without ever writing any code except the single function procedures that all copies of the control trigger. So you have replaced writing a few lines of code in the Form's Open (standard, can be cut and pasted) with dozens of cuts and pastes of controls onto the form? Hmmm..... I can definitely see how this might be better.... >You can override the 'inherited' behavior by changing the function, >writing a specific event procedure or passing in one or more additional optional parameters. Of course you can. So can I using my framework and control classes. >Correct me again if I'm mistaken, but this facility to hook up events >has been around since Access 1 whereas WithEvents is somewhat newer and more esoteric and less universally understood or used. That's like saying "The car has been around a lot less time than the horse so why are we using a car". Sure, Withevents were not around when Access 1.0 came out, and of course this is not applicable to 1.0. More powerful tools are handed to us year after year. To say I am not going to use it because it wasn't available in 1.0 is silly and prevents adapting some very powerful tools. Jurgen, I could care less whether you want to use this stuff. I could care less whether you love hooking functions straight up to the event property. That is an option, and if that is the tool you choose to use, that is your business. I have explained to you why I don't touch that stuff, and why, when I have to take over an app where the previous developer uses that method it pains me greatly. I used to use it, don't get me wrong, it's just that there are tons of disadvantages and only one advantage, your "cut and paste" advantage. That "cut and paste" advantage isn't sufficient in my mind to overcome the disadvantages. In fact that advantage has been neatly replaced by Withevents in classes! You have a SINGLE function that you hook to a property, and you have a bunch of functions that you hook to a bunch of properties. I have a class that I pass a control to. I sink the events in that class, then call various functions of the class from those events. The results are similar, but not identical. I can for instance, turn on/off the behaviors using sysvars. My good friend William Hindman was using some stuff of mine and didn't like some specific things I was doing. I simply "switched it off" for him. Nothing more than "go in the sysvar table and set this sysvar = false. His system didn't use that behavior anymore. Try THAT with your method. A framework is waaaay more than just a function hooked to an event, or even a bunch of functions hooked to a bunch of events. It is a whole system that works together. My control classes talk to the form class. The form class loads SysVars that turn on and off functionality of the framework. I can override a given functionality for the entire application, or just for a given form in the application. The control classes "talk to" the form class and ask whether they should exhibit this behavior? The control class simply doesn't care whether the behavior is turned on / off for the entire application or just this form, all they care about is that they are supposed to exhibit the behavior THIS TIME, RIGHT NOW. Tomorrow the user might want the behavior and I go turn it on using a SysVar. TRY THAT with your "cut and paste" stuff!!! >Like Arthur, it looks to me like you write a great deal more code than >the one line each of us uses to hook a control to a common not in list procedure because you need to write and maintain the framework. You are 100% correct. I do write a whole lot more code than you do. In fact I write almost EXACTLY the same code you do, I just make it a part of a whole system rather than an isolated thing that happens. The "way more code" is the stuff required to tie it in and make it a system. When I design a form I don't "cut and paste" a bunch of controls so that they get hooked up properly. My form class loads control classes that hook everything up for me automatically. Whether I have one or a hundred combos on a form, every one can, if it needs it, have any of the various behaviors that the combo class provides. Why in the world would I go somewhere, "cut a control" and paste it in the form a hundred times? Furthermore I can take ANY form, load a form class in that form's Open and have all of my stuff just automatically applied to all of the controls on that form! All the combos suddenly know how to do combo stuff, all the text boxes suddenly know how to do text box stuff. If a given combo needs NotInList (and MANY don't), then a single line of code passes in the correct table / field / form for that combo to know how to do it. Try THAT with your "cut and paste" stuff! I seem to remember butting heads with you in the past. You were always about "the last ounce of (application) speed", and I simply don't care about that last ounce. I am more about speed of development and ease of maintenance. Your "cut and paste" does allow lightweight forms. I could care less. If that is what this is all about, I will hand you your "speed advantage" and you can walk away the winner. I will take my speed of development and ease of maintenance and I too will walk away a winner. I understand what you are doing, I have done it that way in the distant past. Listen to what I am trying to explain where frameworks are concerned, read it, UNDERSTAND it (ALL OF IT), and then if you still love your "cut and paste" stuff... "may the force be with you". And may I never have to maintain your apps! John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of J?rgen Welz Sent: Sunday, March 07, 2004 6:01 PM To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: RE: [AccessD] Your favorite control behavior Correct me if I'm mistaken, but my understanding is that a form has it's own class which you can multi instance in various ways and in which you can create property procedures and do any thing else one can do in a class of your own. It sounds not like you are creating a form class but a separate class to shadow the form class. The downside is needing to know the name of a control in order to be able to operate with it. The advantage of hooking up all default behaviors with a function is that you can pass the procedure a reference to the actual control for which the event is triggered so there is no need for collections or code to run on the form open event. Every copy/paste of a control is automatically hooked up to the standard events without ever writing any code except the single function procedures that all copies of the control trigger. You can override the 'inherited' behaviour by changing the function, writing a specific event procedure or passing in one or more additional optional parameters. Correct me again if I'm mistaken, but this facility to hook up events has been around since Access 1 whereas WithEvents is somewhat newer and more esoteric and less universally understood or used. I suspect that developers coming from a Visual Basic background are less familiar with the advantages of this approach, particularly when they bemoan the lack of control arrays. I suspect this facility is the reason that control arrays were never needed in Access. Like Arthur, it looks to me like you write a great deal more code than the one line each of us uses to hook a contol to a common not in list procedure because you need to write and maintain the framework. Ciao J?rgen Welz Edmonton, Alberta jwelz at hotmail.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com IMPORTANT - PLEASE READ ******************** This email and any files transmitted with it are confidential and may contain information protected by law from disclosure. If you have received this message in error, please notify the sender immediately and delete this email from your system. No warranty is given that this email or files, if attached to this email, are free from computer viruses or other defects. They are provided on the basis the user assumes all responsibility for loss, damage or consequence resulting directly or indirectly from their use, whether caused by the negligence of the sender or not. -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From andrew.haslett at ilc.gov.au Sun Mar 7 21:59:12 2004 From: andrew.haslett at ilc.gov.au (Haslett, Andrew) Date: Mon, 8 Mar 2004 14:29:12 +1030 Subject: [AccessD] Your favorite control behavior Message-ID: ;=) Nope - standard issue in .Net. Along with 'Self Documentation...' Pretty easy to pick up.. -----Original Message----- From: John W. Colby [mailto:jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com] Sent: Monday, 8 March 2004 2:23 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] Your favorite control behavior >The ability to create custom controls (as classes) and expose custom properties and methods is awesome in .Net, and something I've used extensively throughout my applications. And don't you worry that the "developers" out there won't understand your stuff? John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Haslett, Andrew Sent: Sunday, March 07, 2004 10:18 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: [AccessD] Your favorite control behavior Yep - I've been dev. In Access since 1.1 and love it, but tend to do very little consulting these days, simply as I find distributed applications and the related new technologies more interesting. I've been a little hesitant to jump on the bandwagon as I've always felt the form and report designer in Access was about as good as it gets, however Visual Studio.Net compares nicely. The ability to create custom controls (as classes) and expose custom properties and methods is awesome in .Net, and something I've used extensively throughout my applications. Interested to read your comments about the database element. I'm an MCDBA myself and have found the new objects in .Net used to connect to data stores, a huge improvement over previous versions. You must remember that the data stores for your applications are not 'embedded' in your application as they are in Access, and so obviously aren't going to have the same 'native' functionality, however this is inherent about distributed applications. To make the framework flexible, allowing multiple data sources, such as DB/XML/Web Services/etc -> that sort of functionality is simply not possible.. If that is what you're getting at, it only takes a bit of getting used to and you come to grips with disconnected data connections. I guess it was a little easier for me as I've developed web apps for quite some time and this methodology has been required throughout. I also imagine it would take a little getting used to binding your controls to data-sources, which is inherently easier in Access due to its embedded data-source, but again it's necessary (and often an advantage) in disconnected apps and there are tools provided (in VS.Net) to help with this process. I will continue to follow any framework discussions with interest. I'm also looking forward to upcoming versions of Access where perhaps the 'best of both worlds' will combine - even though I sense many here are not.. Cheers, Andrew -----Original Message----- From: John W. Colby [mailto:jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com] Sent: Monday, 8 March 2004 1:24 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] Your favorite control behavior Andrew, Yes, I am (slowly) learning .net. It's OO stuff is enough to make me drool. Unfortunately it's database stuff is weak and I am a database developer. Stick around (if you are an Access developer) for the framework discussion. Access' inheritance is non-existant so we use workarounds. If I could just inherit the form class and add my stuff I probably would do that but I can't. And of course controls don't have a class at all. Look in .net and a control is just a class that you can inherit like any other class. NICE!!! Lacking that in Access, classes out in a lib is a poor man's substitute and is what I am up to. John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Haslett, Andrew Sent: Sunday, March 07, 2004 9:41 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: [AccessD] Your favorite control behavior I always thought it was "I couldn't care less". Anyway, very interesting discussion. John, not sure if you've looked into yet, but the .Net languages (and many other OO languages I presume) will provide you with a lot of support for what you are trying to implement with your framework. Inherting your pages / controls from a base class will be ideal to 'inherit' common functionality that it seems you are doing. Custom controls (reusable) alse offer the capabilities you are creating with your framework. I haven't looked in detail at your framework or anything - just been browsing these discussions, but was interested to know if you've looked into .Net yet.., as I think you would find it quite interesting. Cheers, A -----Original Message----- From: John W. Colby [mailto:jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com] Sent: Monday, 8 March 2004 12:19 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] Your favorite control behavior >Correct me if I'm mistaken, but my understanding is that a form has >it's own class which you can multi instance in various ways and in which you can create property procedures and do any thing else one can do in a class of your own. It sounds not like you are creating a form class but a separate class to shadow the form class. Yep, you are correct. >The downside is needing to know the name of a control in order to be >able to operate with it. To program certain functionality (such as passing in the table / field / form to a combo for NotInList) that is correct. >The advantage of hooking up all default behaviors with a function is >that you can pass the procedure a reference to the actual control for which the event is triggered so there is no need for collections or code to run on the form open event. I see no advantage there. My form class scans all of my controls and loads a class for each control. That class hooks up all the functionality for them. I don't have to "make sure" I have cut the control from the right place so that stuff is in the event properties. >Every copy/paste of a control is automatically hooked up to the >standard events without ever writing any code except the single function procedures that all copies of the control trigger. So you have replaced writing a few lines of code in the Form's Open (standard, can be cut and pasted) with dozens of cuts and pastes of controls onto the form? Hmmm..... I can definitely see how this might be better.... >You can override the 'inherited' behavior by changing the function, >writing a specific event procedure or passing in one or more additional optional parameters. Of course you can. So can I using my framework and control classes. >Correct me again if I'm mistaken, but this facility to hook up events >has been around since Access 1 whereas WithEvents is somewhat newer and more esoteric and less universally understood or used. That's like saying "The car has been around a lot less time than the horse so why are we using a car". Sure, Withevents were not around when Access 1.0 came out, and of course this is not applicable to 1.0. More powerful tools are handed to us year after year. To say I am not going to use it because it wasn't available in 1.0 is silly and prevents adapting some very powerful tools. Jurgen, I could care less whether you want to use this stuff. I could care less whether you love hooking functions straight up to the event property. That is an option, and if that is the tool you choose to use, that is your business. I have explained to you why I don't touch that stuff, and why, when I have to take over an app where the previous developer uses that method it pains me greatly. I used to use it, don't get me wrong, it's just that there are tons of disadvantages and only one advantage, your "cut and paste" advantage. That "cut and paste" advantage isn't sufficient in my mind to overcome the disadvantages. In fact that advantage has been neatly replaced by Withevents in classes! You have a SINGLE function that you hook to a property, and you have a bunch of functions that you hook to a bunch of properties. I have a class that I pass a control to. I sink the events in that class, then call various functions of the class from those events. The results are similar, but not identical. I can for instance, turn on/off the behaviors using sysvars. My good friend William Hindman was using some stuff of mine and didn't like some specific things I was doing. I simply "switched it off" for him. Nothing more than "go in the sysvar table and set this sysvar = false. His system didn't use that behavior anymore. Try THAT with your method. A framework is waaaay more than just a function hooked to an event, or even a bunch of functions hooked to a bunch of events. It is a whole system that works together. My control classes talk to the form class. The form class loads SysVars that turn on and off functionality of the framework. I can override a given functionality for the entire application, or just for a given form in the application. The control classes "talk to" the form class and ask whether they should exhibit this behavior? The control class simply doesn't care whether the behavior is turned on / off for the entire application or just this form, all they care about is that they are supposed to exhibit the behavior THIS TIME, RIGHT NOW. Tomorrow the user might want the behavior and I go turn it on using a SysVar. TRY THAT with your "cut and paste" stuff!!! >Like Arthur, it looks to me like you write a great deal more code than >the one line each of us uses to hook a control to a common not in list procedure because you need to write and maintain the framework. You are 100% correct. I do write a whole lot more code than you do. In fact I write almost EXACTLY the same code you do, I just make it a part of a whole system rather than an isolated thing that happens. The "way more code" is the stuff required to tie it in and make it a system. When I design a form I don't "cut and paste" a bunch of controls so that they get hooked up properly. My form class loads control classes that hook everything up for me automatically. Whether I have one or a hundred combos on a form, every one can, if it needs it, have any of the various behaviors that the combo class provides. Why in the world would I go somewhere, "cut a control" and paste it in the form a hundred times? Furthermore I can take ANY form, load a form class in that form's Open and have all of my stuff just automatically applied to all of the controls on that form! All the combos suddenly know how to do combo stuff, all the text boxes suddenly know how to do text box stuff. If a given combo needs NotInList (and MANY don't), then a single line of code passes in the correct table / field / form for that combo to know how to do it. Try THAT with your "cut and paste" stuff! I seem to remember butting heads with you in the past. You were always about "the last ounce of (application) speed", and I simply don't care about that last ounce. I am more about speed of development and ease of maintenance. Your "cut and paste" does allow lightweight forms. I could care less. If that is what this is all about, I will hand you your "speed advantage" and you can walk away the winner. I will take my speed of development and ease of maintenance and I too will walk away a winner. I understand what you are doing, I have done it that way in the distant past. Listen to what I am trying to explain where frameworks are concerned, read it, UNDERSTAND it (ALL OF IT), and then if you still love your "cut and paste" stuff... "may the force be with you". And may I never have to maintain your apps! John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of J?rgen Welz Sent: Sunday, March 07, 2004 6:01 PM To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: RE: [AccessD] Your favorite control behavior Correct me if I'm mistaken, but my understanding is that a form has it's own class which you can multi instance in various ways and in which you can create property procedures and do any thing else one can do in a class of your own. It sounds not like you are creating a form class but a separate class to shadow the form class. The downside is needing to know the name of a control in order to be able to operate with it. The advantage of hooking up all default behaviors with a function is that you can pass the procedure a reference to the actual control for which the event is triggered so there is no need for collections or code to run on the form open event. Every copy/paste of a control is automatically hooked up to the standard events without ever writing any code except the single function procedures that all copies of the control trigger. You can override the 'inherited' behaviour by changing the function, writing a specific event procedure or passing in one or more additional optional parameters. Correct me again if I'm mistaken, but this facility to hook up events has been around since Access 1 whereas WithEvents is somewhat newer and more esoteric and less universally understood or used. I suspect that developers coming from a Visual Basic background are less familiar with the advantages of this approach, particularly when they bemoan the lack of control arrays. I suspect this facility is the reason that control arrays were never needed in Access. Like Arthur, it looks to me like you write a great deal more code than the one line each of us uses to hook a contol to a common not in list procedure because you need to write and maintain the framework. Ciao J?rgen Welz Edmonton, Alberta jwelz at hotmail.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com IMPORTANT - PLEASE READ ******************** This email and any files transmitted with it are confidential and may contain information protected by law from disclosure. If you have received this message in error, please notify the sender immediately and delete this email from your system. No warranty is given that this email or files, if attached to this email, are free from computer viruses or other defects. They are provided on the basis the user assumes all responsibility for loss, damage or consequence resulting directly or indirectly from their use, whether caused by the negligence of the sender or not. -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com IMPORTANT - PLEASE READ ******************** This email and any files transmitted with it are confidential and may contain information protected by law from disclosure. If you have received this message in error, please notify the sender immediately and delete this email from your system. No warranty is given that this email or files, if attached to this email, are free from computer viruses or other defects. They are provided on the basis the user assumes all responsibility for loss, damage or consequence resulting directly or indirectly from their use, whether caused by the negligence of the sender or not. From accessd at shaw.ca Sun Mar 7 23:09:28 2004 From: accessd at shaw.ca (Jim Lawrence (AccessD)) Date: Sun, 07 Mar 2004 21:09:28 -0800 Subject: [AccessD] Your favorite control behavior In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Hi John: I have always liked your framework structure concept. I have not been too interested in pursuing that application deployment as, and do not take this the wrong way, most of my work is with SQL server BEs and, correct me if I am wrong, but at first blush, your framework is designed to manage 'bound' DAO programs. My apps may or may not bind the recordsets and these recordset are used to populate the forms...one step removed. Also, I use ADO almost exclusively. Does your framework handle or can be made to handle ADO and Unbound forms? (but bound (qualified) recordsets) Jim -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of John W. Colby Sent: Sunday, March 07, 2004 6:54 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] Your favorite control behavior Andrew, Yes, I am (slowly) learning .net. It's OO stuff is enough to make me drool. Unfortunately it's database stuff is weak and I am a database developer. Stick around (if you are an Access developer) for the framework discussion. Access' inheritance is non-existant so we use workarounds. If I could just inherit the form class and add my stuff I probably would do that but I can't. And of course controls don't have a class at all. Look in .net and a control is just a class that you can inherit like any other class. NICE!!! Lacking that in Access, classes out in a lib is a poor man's substitute and is what I am up to. John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Haslett, Andrew Sent: Sunday, March 07, 2004 9:41 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: [AccessD] Your favorite control behavior I always thought it was "I couldn't care less". Anyway, very interesting discussion. John, not sure if you've looked into yet, but the .Net languages (and many other OO languages I presume) will provide you with a lot of support for what you are trying to implement with your framework. Inherting your pages / controls from a base class will be ideal to 'inherit' common functionality that it seems you are doing. Custom controls (reusable) alse offer the capabilities you are creating with your framework. I haven't looked in detail at your framework or anything - just been browsing these discussions, but was interested to know if you've looked into .Net yet.., as I think you would find it quite interesting. Cheers, A -----Original Message----- From: John W. Colby [mailto:jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com] Sent: Monday, 8 March 2004 12:19 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] Your favorite control behavior >Correct me if I'm mistaken, but my understanding is that a form has >it's own class which you can multi instance in various ways and in which you can create property procedures and do any thing else one can do in a class of your own. It sounds not like you are creating a form class but a separate class to shadow the form class. Yep, you are correct. >The downside is needing to know the name of a control in order to be >able to operate with it. To program certain functionality (such as passing in the table / field / form to a combo for NotInList) that is correct. >The advantage of hooking up all default behaviors with a function is >that you can pass the procedure a reference to the actual control for which the event is triggered so there is no need for collections or code to run on the form open event. I see no advantage there. My form class scans all of my controls and loads a class for each control. That class hooks up all the functionality for them. I don't have to "make sure" I have cut the control from the right place so that stuff is in the event properties. >Every copy/paste of a control is automatically hooked up to the >standard events without ever writing any code except the single function procedures that all copies of the control trigger. So you have replaced writing a few lines of code in the Form's Open (standard, can be cut and pasted) with dozens of cuts and pastes of controls onto the form? Hmmm..... I can definitely see how this might be better.... >You can override the 'inherited' behavior by changing the function, >writing a specific event procedure or passing in one or more additional optional parameters. Of course you can. So can I using my framework and control classes. >Correct me again if I'm mistaken, but this facility to hook up events >has been around since Access 1 whereas WithEvents is somewhat newer and more esoteric and less universally understood or used. That's like saying "The car has been around a lot less time than the horse so why are we using a car". Sure, Withevents were not around when Access 1.0 came out, and of course this is not applicable to 1.0. More powerful tools are handed to us year after year. To say I am not going to use it because it wasn't available in 1.0 is silly and prevents adapting some very powerful tools. Jurgen, I could care less whether you want to use this stuff. I could care less whether you love hooking functions straight up to the event property. That is an option, and if that is the tool you choose to use, that is your business. I have explained to you why I don't touch that stuff, and why, when I have to take over an app where the previous developer uses that method it pains me greatly. I used to use it, don't get me wrong, it's just that there are tons of disadvantages and only one advantage, your "cut and paste" advantage. That "cut and paste" advantage isn't sufficient in my mind to overcome the disadvantages. In fact that advantage has been neatly replaced by Withevents in classes! You have a SINGLE function that you hook to a property, and you have a bunch of functions that you hook to a bunch of properties. I have a class that I pass a control to. I sink the events in that class, then call various functions of the class from those events. The results are similar, but not identical. I can for instance, turn on/off the behaviors using sysvars. My good friend William Hindman was using some stuff of mine and didn't like some specific things I was doing. I simply "switched it off" for him. Nothing more than "go in the sysvar table and set this sysvar = false. His system didn't use that behavior anymore. Try THAT with your method. A framework is waaaay more than just a function hooked to an event, or even a bunch of functions hooked to a bunch of events. It is a whole system that works together. My control classes talk to the form class. The form class loads SysVars that turn on and off functionality of the framework. I can override a given functionality for the entire application, or just for a given form in the application. The control classes "talk to" the form class and ask whether they should exhibit this behavior? The control class simply doesn't care whether the behavior is turned on / off for the entire application or just this form, all they care about is that they are supposed to exhibit the behavior THIS TIME, RIGHT NOW. Tomorrow the user might want the behavior and I go turn it on using a SysVar. TRY THAT with your "cut and paste" stuff!!! >Like Arthur, it looks to me like you write a great deal more code than >the one line each of us uses to hook a control to a common not in list procedure because you need to write and maintain the framework. You are 100% correct. I do write a whole lot more code than you do. In fact I write almost EXACTLY the same code you do, I just make it a part of a whole system rather than an isolated thing that happens. The "way more code" is the stuff required to tie it in and make it a system. When I design a form I don't "cut and paste" a bunch of controls so that they get hooked up properly. My form class loads control classes that hook everything up for me automatically. Whether I have one or a hundred combos on a form, every one can, if it needs it, have any of the various behaviors that the combo class provides. Why in the world would I go somewhere, "cut a control" and paste it in the form a hundred times? Furthermore I can take ANY form, load a form class in that form's Open and have all of my stuff just automatically applied to all of the controls on that form! All the combos suddenly know how to do combo stuff, all the text boxes suddenly know how to do text box stuff. If a given combo needs NotInList (and MANY don't), then a single line of code passes in the correct table / field / form for that combo to know how to do it. Try THAT with your "cut and paste" stuff! I seem to remember butting heads with you in the past. You were always about "the last ounce of (application) speed", and I simply don't care about that last ounce. I am more about speed of development and ease of maintenance. Your "cut and paste" does allow lightweight forms. I could care less. If that is what this is all about, I will hand you your "speed advantage" and you can walk away the winner. I will take my speed of development and ease of maintenance and I too will walk away a winner. I understand what you are doing, I have done it that way in the distant past. Listen to what I am trying to explain where frameworks are concerned, read it, UNDERSTAND it (ALL OF IT), and then if you still love your "cut and paste" stuff... "may the force be with you". And may I never have to maintain your apps! John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of J?rgen Welz Sent: Sunday, March 07, 2004 6:01 PM To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: RE: [AccessD] Your favorite control behavior Correct me if I'm mistaken, but my understanding is that a form has it's own class which you can multi instance in various ways and in which you can create property procedures and do any thing else one can do in a class of your own. It sounds not like you are creating a form class but a separate class to shadow the form class. The downside is needing to know the name of a control in order to be able to operate with it. The advantage of hooking up all default behaviors with a function is that you can pass the procedure a reference to the actual control for which the event is triggered so there is no need for collections or code to run on the form open event. Every copy/paste of a control is automatically hooked up to the standard events without ever writing any code except the single function procedures that all copies of the control trigger. You can override the 'inherited' behaviour by changing the function, writing a specific event procedure or passing in one or more additional optional parameters. Correct me again if I'm mistaken, but this facility to hook up events has been around since Access 1 whereas WithEvents is somewhat newer and more esoteric and less universally understood or used. I suspect that developers coming from a Visual Basic background are less familiar with the advantages of this approach, particularly when they bemoan the lack of control arrays. I suspect this facility is the reason that control arrays were never needed in Access. Like Arthur, it looks to me like you write a great deal more code than the one line each of us uses to hook a contol to a common not in list procedure because you need to write and maintain the framework. Ciao J?rgen Welz Edmonton, Alberta jwelz at hotmail.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com Sun Mar 7 23:56:08 2004 From: jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com (John W. Colby) Date: Mon, 8 Mar 2004 00:56:08 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Your favorite control behavior In-Reply-To: Message-ID: The answer to ADO is yes... with the exception of the form RecordsetClone property which is by definition DAO. I use ADO exclusively in my current framework except for the recordsetclone stuff. I use recordsetclone to get a handle to the current recordset, as well as the current position of the form (what record is displaying) and use that to "move" the form to display a different record etc. As for unbound, hmmm... it probably could. I use a lot of tricks in my framework such as looking at the field that the control is bound to discover the field name, and now that I know how to do so (using DAO) drilling clear down to the table name and field name. So the answer to that is probably, but you might lose a lot of neat functionality. I'd LOVE to work with an extremely competent SQL Server developer / programmer in doing this though since I am going to need this functionality but don't know SQL Server that well. John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Jim Lawrence (AccessD) Sent: Monday, March 08, 2004 12:09 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] Your favorite control behavior Hi John: I have always liked your framework structure concept. I have not been too interested in pursuing that application deployment as, and do not take this the wrong way, most of my work is with SQL server BEs and, correct me if I am wrong, but at first blush, your framework is designed to manage 'bound' DAO programs. My apps may or may not bind the recordsets and these recordset are used to populate the forms...one step removed. Also, I use ADO almost exclusively. Does your framework handle or can be made to handle ADO and Unbound forms? (but bound (qualified) recordsets) Jim -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of John W. Colby Sent: Sunday, March 07, 2004 6:54 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] Your favorite control behavior Andrew, Yes, I am (slowly) learning .net. It's OO stuff is enough to make me drool. Unfortunately it's database stuff is weak and I am a database developer. Stick around (if you are an Access developer) for the framework discussion. Access' inheritance is non-existant so we use workarounds. If I could just inherit the form class and add my stuff I probably would do that but I can't. And of course controls don't have a class at all. Look in .net and a control is just a class that you can inherit like any other class. NICE!!! Lacking that in Access, classes out in a lib is a poor man's substitute and is what I am up to. John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Haslett, Andrew Sent: Sunday, March 07, 2004 9:41 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: [AccessD] Your favorite control behavior I always thought it was "I couldn't care less". Anyway, very interesting discussion. John, not sure if you've looked into yet, but the .Net languages (and many other OO languages I presume) will provide you with a lot of support for what you are trying to implement with your framework. Inherting your pages / controls from a base class will be ideal to 'inherit' common functionality that it seems you are doing. Custom controls (reusable) alse offer the capabilities you are creating with your framework. I haven't looked in detail at your framework or anything - just been browsing these discussions, but was interested to know if you've looked into .Net yet.., as I think you would find it quite interesting. Cheers, A -----Original Message----- From: John W. Colby [mailto:jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com] Sent: Monday, 8 March 2004 12:19 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] Your favorite control behavior >Correct me if I'm mistaken, but my understanding is that a form has >it's own class which you can multi instance in various ways and in which you can create property procedures and do any thing else one can do in a class of your own. It sounds not like you are creating a form class but a separate class to shadow the form class. Yep, you are correct. >The downside is needing to know the name of a control in order to be >able to operate with it. To program certain functionality (such as passing in the table / field / form to a combo for NotInList) that is correct. >The advantage of hooking up all default behaviors with a function is >that you can pass the procedure a reference to the actual control for which the event is triggered so there is no need for collections or code to run on the form open event. I see no advantage there. My form class scans all of my controls and loads a class for each control. That class hooks up all the functionality for them. I don't have to "make sure" I have cut the control from the right place so that stuff is in the event properties. >Every copy/paste of a control is automatically hooked up to the >standard events without ever writing any code except the single function procedures that all copies of the control trigger. So you have replaced writing a few lines of code in the Form's Open (standard, can be cut and pasted) with dozens of cuts and pastes of controls onto the form? Hmmm..... I can definitely see how this might be better.... >You can override the 'inherited' behavior by changing the function, >writing a specific event procedure or passing in one or more additional optional parameters. Of course you can. So can I using my framework and control classes. >Correct me again if I'm mistaken, but this facility to hook up events >has been around since Access 1 whereas WithEvents is somewhat newer and more esoteric and less universally understood or used. That's like saying "The car has been around a lot less time than the horse so why are we using a car". Sure, Withevents were not around when Access 1.0 came out, and of course this is not applicable to 1.0. More powerful tools are handed to us year after year. To say I am not going to use it because it wasn't available in 1.0 is silly and prevents adapting some very powerful tools. Jurgen, I could care less whether you want to use this stuff. I could care less whether you love hooking functions straight up to the event property. That is an option, and if that is the tool you choose to use, that is your business. I have explained to you why I don't touch that stuff, and why, when I have to take over an app where the previous developer uses that method it pains me greatly. I used to use it, don't get me wrong, it's just that there are tons of disadvantages and only one advantage, your "cut and paste" advantage. That "cut and paste" advantage isn't sufficient in my mind to overcome the disadvantages. In fact that advantage has been neatly replaced by Withevents in classes! You have a SINGLE function that you hook to a property, and you have a bunch of functions that you hook to a bunch of properties. I have a class that I pass a control to. I sink the events in that class, then call various functions of the class from those events. The results are similar, but not identical. I can for instance, turn on/off the behaviors using sysvars. My good friend William Hindman was using some stuff of mine and didn't like some specific things I was doing. I simply "switched it off" for him. Nothing more than "go in the sysvar table and set this sysvar = false. His system didn't use that behavior anymore. Try THAT with your method. A framework is waaaay more than just a function hooked to an event, or even a bunch of functions hooked to a bunch of events. It is a whole system that works together. My control classes talk to the form class. The form class loads SysVars that turn on and off functionality of the framework. I can override a given functionality for the entire application, or just for a given form in the application. The control classes "talk to" the form class and ask whether they should exhibit this behavior? The control class simply doesn't care whether the behavior is turned on / off for the entire application or just this form, all they care about is that they are supposed to exhibit the behavior THIS TIME, RIGHT NOW. Tomorrow the user might want the behavior and I go turn it on using a SysVar. TRY THAT with your "cut and paste" stuff!!! >Like Arthur, it looks to me like you write a great deal more code than >the one line each of us uses to hook a control to a common not in list procedure because you need to write and maintain the framework. You are 100% correct. I do write a whole lot more code than you do. In fact I write almost EXACTLY the same code you do, I just make it a part of a whole system rather than an isolated thing that happens. The "way more code" is the stuff required to tie it in and make it a system. When I design a form I don't "cut and paste" a bunch of controls so that they get hooked up properly. My form class loads control classes that hook everything up for me automatically. Whether I have one or a hundred combos on a form, every one can, if it needs it, have any of the various behaviors that the combo class provides. Why in the world would I go somewhere, "cut a control" and paste it in the form a hundred times? Furthermore I can take ANY form, load a form class in that form's Open and have all of my stuff just automatically applied to all of the controls on that form! All the combos suddenly know how to do combo stuff, all the text boxes suddenly know how to do text box stuff. If a given combo needs NotInList (and MANY don't), then a single line of code passes in the correct table / field / form for that combo to know how to do it. Try THAT with your "cut and paste" stuff! I seem to remember butting heads with you in the past. You were always about "the last ounce of (application) speed", and I simply don't care about that last ounce. I am more about speed of development and ease of maintenance. Your "cut and paste" does allow lightweight forms. I could care less. If that is what this is all about, I will hand you your "speed advantage" and you can walk away the winner. I will take my speed of development and ease of maintenance and I too will walk away a winner. I understand what you are doing, I have done it that way in the distant past. Listen to what I am trying to explain where frameworks are concerned, read it, UNDERSTAND it (ALL OF IT), and then if you still love your "cut and paste" stuff... "may the force be with you". And may I never have to maintain your apps! John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of J?rgen Welz Sent: Sunday, March 07, 2004 6:01 PM To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: RE: [AccessD] Your favorite control behavior Correct me if I'm mistaken, but my understanding is that a form has it's own class which you can multi instance in various ways and in which you can create property procedures and do any thing else one can do in a class of your own. It sounds not like you are creating a form class but a separate class to shadow the form class. The downside is needing to know the name of a control in order to be able to operate with it. The advantage of hooking up all default behaviors with a function is that you can pass the procedure a reference to the actual control for which the event is triggered so there is no need for collections or code to run on the form open event. Every copy/paste of a control is automatically hooked up to the standard events without ever writing any code except the single function procedures that all copies of the control trigger. You can override the 'inherited' behaviour by changing the function, writing a specific event procedure or passing in one or more additional optional parameters. Correct me again if I'm mistaken, but this facility to hook up events has been around since Access 1 whereas WithEvents is somewhat newer and more esoteric and less universally understood or used. I suspect that developers coming from a Visual Basic background are less familiar with the advantages of this approach, particularly when they bemoan the lack of control arrays. I suspect this facility is the reason that control arrays were never needed in Access. Like Arthur, it looks to me like you write a great deal more code than the one line each of us uses to hook a contol to a common not in list procedure because you need to write and maintain the framework. Ciao J?rgen Welz Edmonton, Alberta jwelz at hotmail.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From jwelz at hotmail.com Mon Mar 8 00:32:14 2004 From: jwelz at hotmail.com (Jürgen Welz) Date: Sun, 07 Mar 2004 23:32:14 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] Your favorite control behavior Message-ID: Assuming the is directed my way: I have been working with .NET as well as Java. .Net is Microsoft's attempt to make something similar to Java with the same kind of OO capabilities, garbage collection, security and error handling. The .NET languages strongly resemble Java in many respects. I'm not worried about understanding object oriented principles and there are many programmers who do. I do have reservations about trying to fit a square peg like Access into some round holes. You can force it but it isn't a great fit. Access only has quasi OO capabilities and the average college graduate around here who learns Java and will find frustration, as do I, with the limitations of Access. I have ofen had the need to use Access to do things it wasn't intended to do because it was the only tool permitted where I worked to meet tasks beyond the ususal scope of Access. I have reservations about the abilities of average Access developers or full blown OO developers to work in this no man's land somewhere between the two. It can be done, but why bother. Ciao J?rgen Welz Edmonton, Alberta jwelz at hotmail.com >From: "John W. Colby" > > >The ability to create custom controls (as classes) and expose custom >properties and methods is awesome in .Net, and something I've used >extensively throughout my applications. > >And don't you worry that the "developers" out there won't understand your >stuff? > >John W. Colby >www.ColbyConsulting.com _________________________________________________________________ MSN Premium helps eliminate e-mail viruses. Get 2 months FREE* http://join.msn.com/?pgmarket=en-ca&page=byoa/prem&xAPID=1994&DI=1034&SU=http://hotmail.com/enca&HL=Market_MSNIS_Taglines From andrew.haslett at ilc.gov.au Mon Mar 8 00:53:30 2004 From: andrew.haslett at ilc.gov.au (Haslett, Andrew) Date: Mon, 8 Mar 2004 17:23:30 +1030 Subject: [AccessD] Your favorite control behavior Message-ID: I'm not sure exactly what point you're trying to make. I don't imagine Access was ever really designed to be OO. Why should they have built in capabilities to make 'Java college graduates' less frustrated. I would much rather them spend their available time fixing existing bugs and improving more important features. *If* they provide improved OO capabilities in future versions, I'm sure they will provide interfaces for users who do not have OO skills to continue to program in. I've not yet looked into the new Office related .Net stuff but I'm sure it partly serves this purpose.., from a distributed angle anyway (ie not from the Access IDE) -----Original Message----- From: J?rgen Welz [mailto:jwelz at hotmail.com] Sent: Monday, 8 March 2004 5:02 PM To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: RE: [AccessD] Your favorite control behavior Assuming the is directed my way: I have been working with .NET as well as Java. .Net is Microsoft's attempt to make something similar to Java with the same kind of OO capabilities, garbage collection, security and error handling. The .NET languages strongly resemble Java in many respects. I'm not worried about understanding object oriented principles and there are many programmers who do. I do have reservations about trying to fit a square peg like Access into some round holes. You can force it but it isn't a great fit. Access only has quasi OO capabilities and the average college graduate around here who learns Java and will find frustration, as do I, with the limitations of Access. I have ofen had the need to use Access to do things it wasn't intended to do because it was the only tool permitted where I worked to meet tasks beyond the ususal scope of Access. I have reservations about the abilities of average Access developers or full blown OO developers to work in this no man's land somewhere between the two. It can be done, but why bother. Ciao J?rgen Welz Edmonton, Alberta jwelz at hotmail.com >From: "John W. Colby" > > >The ability to create custom controls (as classes) and expose custom >properties and methods is awesome in .Net, and something I've used >extensively throughout my applications. > >And don't you worry that the "developers" out there won't understand >your stuff? > >John W. Colby >www.ColbyConsulting.com _________________________________________________________________ MSN Premium helps eliminate e-mail viruses. Get 2 months FREE* http://join.msn.com/?pgmarket=en-ca&page=byoa/prem&xAPID=1994&DI=1034&SU=htt p://hotmail.com/enca&HL=Market_MSNIS_Taglines -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com IMPORTANT - PLEASE READ ******************** This email and any files transmitted with it are confidential and may contain information protected by law from disclosure. If you have received this message in error, please notify the sender immediately and delete this email from your system. No warranty is given that this email or files, if attached to this email, are free from computer viruses or other defects. They are provided on the basis the user assumes all responsibility for loss, damage or consequence resulting directly or indirectly from their use, whether caused by the negligence of the sender or not. From andrew.haslett at ilc.gov.au Mon Mar 8 00:55:47 2004 From: andrew.haslett at ilc.gov.au (Haslett, Andrew) Date: Mon, 8 Mar 2004 17:25:47 +1030 Subject: [AccessD] Your favorite control behavior Message-ID: >>I'd LOVE to work with an extremely competent SQL Server developer / programmer in >> doing this though since I am going to need this functionality but don't know SQL Server that well I don't think its SS as much as interfacing with the (OLEDB) driver used to communicate between Access and SQL. That's where your equivalent recordset behaviours come in. Unless youre talking about wrapping your functionality in Stored Procs using a disconnected framework... -----Original Message----- From: John W. Colby [mailto:jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com] Sent: Monday, 8 March 2004 4:26 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] Your favorite control behavior The answer to ADO is yes... with the exception of the form RecordsetClone property which is by definition DAO. I use ADO exclusively in my current framework except for the recordsetclone stuff. I use recordsetclone to get a handle to the current recordset, as well as the current position of the form (what record is displaying) and use that to "move" the form to display a different record etc. As for unbound, hmmm... it probably could. I use a lot of tricks in my framework such as looking at the field that the control is bound to discover the field name, and now that I know how to do so (using DAO) drilling clear down to the table name and field name. So the answer to that is probably, but you might lose a lot of neat functionality. I'd LOVE to work with an extremely competent SQL Server developer / programmer in doing this though since I am going to need this functionality but don't know SQL Server that well. John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Jim Lawrence (AccessD) Sent: Monday, March 08, 2004 12:09 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] Your favorite control behavior Hi John: I have always liked your framework structure concept. I have not been too interested in pursuing that application deployment as, and do not take this the wrong way, most of my work is with SQL server BEs and, correct me if I am wrong, but at first blush, your framework is designed to manage 'bound' DAO programs. My apps may or may not bind the recordsets and these recordset are used to populate the forms...one step removed. Also, I use ADO almost exclusively. Does your framework handle or can be made to handle ADO and Unbound forms? (but bound (qualified) recordsets) Jim -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of John W. Colby Sent: Sunday, March 07, 2004 6:54 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] Your favorite control behavior Andrew, Yes, I am (slowly) learning .net. It's OO stuff is enough to make me drool. Unfortunately it's database stuff is weak and I am a database developer. Stick around (if you are an Access developer) for the framework discussion. Access' inheritance is non-existant so we use workarounds. If I could just inherit the form class and add my stuff I probably would do that but I can't. And of course controls don't have a class at all. Look in .net and a control is just a class that you can inherit like any other class. NICE!!! Lacking that in Access, classes out in a lib is a poor man's substitute and is what I am up to. John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Haslett, Andrew Sent: Sunday, March 07, 2004 9:41 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: [AccessD] Your favorite control behavior I always thought it was "I couldn't care less". Anyway, very interesting discussion. John, not sure if you've looked into yet, but the .Net languages (and many other OO languages I presume) will provide you with a lot of support for what you are trying to implement with your framework. Inherting your pages / controls from a base class will be ideal to 'inherit' common functionality that it seems you are doing. Custom controls (reusable) alse offer the capabilities you are creating with your framework. I haven't looked in detail at your framework or anything - just been browsing these discussions, but was interested to know if you've looked into .Net yet.., as I think you would find it quite interesting. Cheers, A -----Original Message----- From: John W. Colby [mailto:jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com] Sent: Monday, 8 March 2004 12:19 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] Your favorite control behavior >Correct me if I'm mistaken, but my understanding is that a form has >it's own class which you can multi instance in various ways and in which you can create property procedures and do any thing else one can do in a class of your own. It sounds not like you are creating a form class but a separate class to shadow the form class. Yep, you are correct. >The downside is needing to know the name of a control in order to be >able to operate with it. To program certain functionality (such as passing in the table / field / form to a combo for NotInList) that is correct. >The advantage of hooking up all default behaviors with a function is >that you can pass the procedure a reference to the actual control for which the event is triggered so there is no need for collections or code to run on the form open event. I see no advantage there. My form class scans all of my controls and loads a class for each control. That class hooks up all the functionality for them. I don't have to "make sure" I have cut the control from the right place so that stuff is in the event properties. >Every copy/paste of a control is automatically hooked up to the >standard events without ever writing any code except the single function procedures that all copies of the control trigger. So you have replaced writing a few lines of code in the Form's Open (standard, can be cut and pasted) with dozens of cuts and pastes of controls onto the form? Hmmm..... I can definitely see how this might be better.... >You can override the 'inherited' behavior by changing the function, >writing a specific event procedure or passing in one or more additional optional parameters. Of course you can. So can I using my framework and control classes. >Correct me again if I'm mistaken, but this facility to hook up events >has been around since Access 1 whereas WithEvents is somewhat newer and more esoteric and less universally understood or used. That's like saying "The car has been around a lot less time than the horse so why are we using a car". Sure, Withevents were not around when Access 1.0 came out, and of course this is not applicable to 1.0. More powerful tools are handed to us year after year. To say I am not going to use it because it wasn't available in 1.0 is silly and prevents adapting some very powerful tools. Jurgen, I could care less whether you want to use this stuff. I could care less whether you love hooking functions straight up to the event property. That is an option, and if that is the tool you choose to use, that is your business. I have explained to you why I don't touch that stuff, and why, when I have to take over an app where the previous developer uses that method it pains me greatly. I used to use it, don't get me wrong, it's just that there are tons of disadvantages and only one advantage, your "cut and paste" advantage. That "cut and paste" advantage isn't sufficient in my mind to overcome the disadvantages. In fact that advantage has been neatly replaced by Withevents in classes! You have a SINGLE function that you hook to a property, and you have a bunch of functions that you hook to a bunch of properties. I have a class that I pass a control to. I sink the events in that class, then call various functions of the class from those events. The results are similar, but not identical. I can for instance, turn on/off the behaviors using sysvars. My good friend William Hindman was using some stuff of mine and didn't like some specific things I was doing. I simply "switched it off" for him. Nothing more than "go in the sysvar table and set this sysvar = false. His system didn't use that behavior anymore. Try THAT with your method. A framework is waaaay more than just a function hooked to an event, or even a bunch of functions hooked to a bunch of events. It is a whole system that works together. My control classes talk to the form class. The form class loads SysVars that turn on and off functionality of the framework. I can override a given functionality for the entire application, or just for a given form in the application. The control classes "talk to" the form class and ask whether they should exhibit this behavior? The control class simply doesn't care whether the behavior is turned on / off for the entire application or just this form, all they care about is that they are supposed to exhibit the behavior THIS TIME, RIGHT NOW. Tomorrow the user might want the behavior and I go turn it on using a SysVar. TRY THAT with your "cut and paste" stuff!!! >Like Arthur, it looks to me like you write a great deal more code than >the one line each of us uses to hook a control to a common not in list procedure because you need to write and maintain the framework. You are 100% correct. I do write a whole lot more code than you do. In fact I write almost EXACTLY the same code you do, I just make it a part of a whole system rather than an isolated thing that happens. The "way more code" is the stuff required to tie it in and make it a system. When I design a form I don't "cut and paste" a bunch of controls so that they get hooked up properly. My form class loads control classes that hook everything up for me automatically. Whether I have one or a hundred combos on a form, every one can, if it needs it, have any of the various behaviors that the combo class provides. Why in the world would I go somewhere, "cut a control" and paste it in the form a hundred times? Furthermore I can take ANY form, load a form class in that form's Open and have all of my stuff just automatically applied to all of the controls on that form! All the combos suddenly know how to do combo stuff, all the text boxes suddenly know how to do text box stuff. If a given combo needs NotInList (and MANY don't), then a single line of code passes in the correct table / field / form for that combo to know how to do it. Try THAT with your "cut and paste" stuff! I seem to remember butting heads with you in the past. You were always about "the last ounce of (application) speed", and I simply don't care about that last ounce. I am more about speed of development and ease of maintenance. Your "cut and paste" does allow lightweight forms. I could care less. If that is what this is all about, I will hand you your "speed advantage" and you can walk away the winner. I will take my speed of development and ease of maintenance and I too will walk away a winner. I understand what you are doing, I have done it that way in the distant past. Listen to what I am trying to explain where frameworks are concerned, read it, UNDERSTAND it (ALL OF IT), and then if you still love your "cut and paste" stuff... "may the force be with you". And may I never have to maintain your apps! John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of J?rgen Welz Sent: Sunday, March 07, 2004 6:01 PM To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: RE: [AccessD] Your favorite control behavior Correct me if I'm mistaken, but my understanding is that a form has it's own class which you can multi instance in various ways and in which you can create property procedures and do any thing else one can do in a class of your own. It sounds not like you are creating a form class but a separate class to shadow the form class. The downside is needing to know the name of a control in order to be able to operate with it. The advantage of hooking up all default behaviors with a function is that you can pass the procedure a reference to the actual control for which the event is triggered so there is no need for collections or code to run on the form open event. Every copy/paste of a control is automatically hooked up to the standard events without ever writing any code except the single function procedures that all copies of the control trigger. You can override the 'inherited' behaviour by changing the function, writing a specific event procedure or passing in one or more additional optional parameters. Correct me again if I'm mistaken, but this facility to hook up events has been around since Access 1 whereas WithEvents is somewhat newer and more esoteric and less universally understood or used. I suspect that developers coming from a Visual Basic background are less familiar with the advantages of this approach, particularly when they bemoan the lack of control arrays. I suspect this facility is the reason that control arrays were never needed in Access. Like Arthur, it looks to me like you write a great deal more code than the one line each of us uses to hook a contol to a common not in list procedure because you need to write and maintain the framework. Ciao J?rgen Welz Edmonton, Alberta jwelz at hotmail.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com IMPORTANT - PLEASE READ ******************** This email and any files transmitted with it are confidential and may contain information protected by law from disclosure. If you have received this message in error, please notify the sender immediately and delete this email from your system. 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From jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com Mon Mar 8 06:44:51 2004 From: jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com (John W. Colby) Date: Mon, 8 Mar 2004 07:44:51 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Your favorite control behavior In-Reply-To: Message-ID: You are correct however I can't efficiently do that since I don't understand the "working with" SQL Server enough to get anywhere. I have a client who is moving one of my apps to SQL Server. It would be nice to be able to get the framework "SQL Server compliant" whatever that may mean. Unfortunately they are using A2K and will continue to do so for quite some time I'm afraid. And I squeeze every bit of "interface" out of Access using things like queries that reference controls on forms, queries that reference my own custom VB (or for that matter Built-in) functions. Both of these are no-nos when working with SQL Server. So it is very much a combination of making the framework itself "data store independent" as well as MY learning how to replace what I do with what will work with SQL Server (or rather non-jet) data stores. For BOTH, I could use an expert in squeezing the last ounce of "interface" out of non-Jet data stores. John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Haslett, Andrew Sent: Monday, March 08, 2004 1:56 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: [AccessD] Your favorite control behavior >>I'd LOVE to work with an extremely competent SQL Server developer / programmer in >> doing this though since I am going to need this functionality but don't know SQL Server that well I don't think its SS as much as interfacing with the (OLEDB) driver used to communicate between Access and SQL. That's where your equivalent recordset behaviours come in. Unless youre talking about wrapping your functionality in Stored Procs using a disconnected framework... -----Original Message----- From: John W. Colby [mailto:jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com] Sent: Monday, 8 March 2004 4:26 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] Your favorite control behavior The answer to ADO is yes... with the exception of the form RecordsetClone property which is by definition DAO. I use ADO exclusively in my current framework except for the recordsetclone stuff. I use recordsetclone to get a handle to the current recordset, as well as the current position of the form (what record is displaying) and use that to "move" the form to display a different record etc. As for unbound, hmmm... it probably could. I use a lot of tricks in my framework such as looking at the field that the control is bound to discover the field name, and now that I know how to do so (using DAO) drilling clear down to the table name and field name. So the answer to that is probably, but you might lose a lot of neat functionality. I'd LOVE to work with an extremely competent SQL Server developer / programmer in doing this though since I am going to need this functionality but don't know SQL Server that well. John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Jim Lawrence (AccessD) Sent: Monday, March 08, 2004 12:09 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] Your favorite control behavior Hi John: I have always liked your framework structure concept. I have not been too interested in pursuing that application deployment as, and do not take this the wrong way, most of my work is with SQL server BEs and, correct me if I am wrong, but at first blush, your framework is designed to manage 'bound' DAO programs. My apps may or may not bind the recordsets and these recordset are used to populate the forms...one step removed. Also, I use ADO almost exclusively. Does your framework handle or can be made to handle ADO and Unbound forms? (but bound (qualified) recordsets) Jim -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of John W. Colby Sent: Sunday, March 07, 2004 6:54 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] Your favorite control behavior Andrew, Yes, I am (slowly) learning .net. It's OO stuff is enough to make me drool. Unfortunately it's database stuff is weak and I am a database developer. Stick around (if you are an Access developer) for the framework discussion. Access' inheritance is non-existant so we use workarounds. If I could just inherit the form class and add my stuff I probably would do that but I can't. And of course controls don't have a class at all. Look in .net and a control is just a class that you can inherit like any other class. NICE!!! Lacking that in Access, classes out in a lib is a poor man's substitute and is what I am up to. John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Haslett, Andrew Sent: Sunday, March 07, 2004 9:41 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: [AccessD] Your favorite control behavior I always thought it was "I couldn't care less". Anyway, very interesting discussion. John, not sure if you've looked into yet, but the .Net languages (and many other OO languages I presume) will provide you with a lot of support for what you are trying to implement with your framework. Inherting your pages / controls from a base class will be ideal to 'inherit' common functionality that it seems you are doing. Custom controls (reusable) alse offer the capabilities you are creating with your framework. I haven't looked in detail at your framework or anything - just been browsing these discussions, but was interested to know if you've looked into .Net yet.., as I think you would find it quite interesting. Cheers, A -----Original Message----- From: John W. Colby [mailto:jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com] Sent: Monday, 8 March 2004 12:19 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] Your favorite control behavior >Correct me if I'm mistaken, but my understanding is that a form has >it's own class which you can multi instance in various ways and in which you can create property procedures and do any thing else one can do in a class of your own. It sounds not like you are creating a form class but a separate class to shadow the form class. Yep, you are correct. >The downside is needing to know the name of a control in order to be >able to operate with it. To program certain functionality (such as passing in the table / field / form to a combo for NotInList) that is correct. >The advantage of hooking up all default behaviors with a function is >that you can pass the procedure a reference to the actual control for which the event is triggered so there is no need for collections or code to run on the form open event. I see no advantage there. My form class scans all of my controls and loads a class for each control. That class hooks up all the functionality for them. I don't have to "make sure" I have cut the control from the right place so that stuff is in the event properties. >Every copy/paste of a control is automatically hooked up to the >standard events without ever writing any code except the single function procedures that all copies of the control trigger. So you have replaced writing a few lines of code in the Form's Open (standard, can be cut and pasted) with dozens of cuts and pastes of controls onto the form? Hmmm..... I can definitely see how this might be better.... >You can override the 'inherited' behavior by changing the function, >writing a specific event procedure or passing in one or more additional optional parameters. Of course you can. So can I using my framework and control classes. >Correct me again if I'm mistaken, but this facility to hook up events >has been around since Access 1 whereas WithEvents is somewhat newer and more esoteric and less universally understood or used. That's like saying "The car has been around a lot less time than the horse so why are we using a car". Sure, Withevents were not around when Access 1.0 came out, and of course this is not applicable to 1.0. More powerful tools are handed to us year after year. To say I am not going to use it because it wasn't available in 1.0 is silly and prevents adapting some very powerful tools. Jurgen, I could care less whether you want to use this stuff. I could care less whether you love hooking functions straight up to the event property. That is an option, and if that is the tool you choose to use, that is your business. I have explained to you why I don't touch that stuff, and why, when I have to take over an app where the previous developer uses that method it pains me greatly. I used to use it, don't get me wrong, it's just that there are tons of disadvantages and only one advantage, your "cut and paste" advantage. That "cut and paste" advantage isn't sufficient in my mind to overcome the disadvantages. In fact that advantage has been neatly replaced by Withevents in classes! You have a SINGLE function that you hook to a property, and you have a bunch of functions that you hook to a bunch of properties. I have a class that I pass a control to. I sink the events in that class, then call various functions of the class from those events. The results are similar, but not identical. I can for instance, turn on/off the behaviors using sysvars. My good friend William Hindman was using some stuff of mine and didn't like some specific things I was doing. I simply "switched it off" for him. Nothing more than "go in the sysvar table and set this sysvar = false. His system didn't use that behavior anymore. Try THAT with your method. A framework is waaaay more than just a function hooked to an event, or even a bunch of functions hooked to a bunch of events. It is a whole system that works together. My control classes talk to the form class. The form class loads SysVars that turn on and off functionality of the framework. I can override a given functionality for the entire application, or just for a given form in the application. The control classes "talk to" the form class and ask whether they should exhibit this behavior? The control class simply doesn't care whether the behavior is turned on / off for the entire application or just this form, all they care about is that they are supposed to exhibit the behavior THIS TIME, RIGHT NOW. Tomorrow the user might want the behavior and I go turn it on using a SysVar. TRY THAT with your "cut and paste" stuff!!! >Like Arthur, it looks to me like you write a great deal more code than >the one line each of us uses to hook a control to a common not in list procedure because you need to write and maintain the framework. You are 100% correct. I do write a whole lot more code than you do. In fact I write almost EXACTLY the same code you do, I just make it a part of a whole system rather than an isolated thing that happens. The "way more code" is the stuff required to tie it in and make it a system. When I design a form I don't "cut and paste" a bunch of controls so that they get hooked up properly. My form class loads control classes that hook everything up for me automatically. Whether I have one or a hundred combos on a form, every one can, if it needs it, have any of the various behaviors that the combo class provides. Why in the world would I go somewhere, "cut a control" and paste it in the form a hundred times? Furthermore I can take ANY form, load a form class in that form's Open and have all of my stuff just automatically applied to all of the controls on that form! All the combos suddenly know how to do combo stuff, all the text boxes suddenly know how to do text box stuff. If a given combo needs NotInList (and MANY don't), then a single line of code passes in the correct table / field / form for that combo to know how to do it. Try THAT with your "cut and paste" stuff! I seem to remember butting heads with you in the past. You were always about "the last ounce of (application) speed", and I simply don't care about that last ounce. I am more about speed of development and ease of maintenance. Your "cut and paste" does allow lightweight forms. I could care less. If that is what this is all about, I will hand you your "speed advantage" and you can walk away the winner. I will take my speed of development and ease of maintenance and I too will walk away a winner. I understand what you are doing, I have done it that way in the distant past. Listen to what I am trying to explain where frameworks are concerned, read it, UNDERSTAND it (ALL OF IT), and then if you still love your "cut and paste" stuff... "may the force be with you". And may I never have to maintain your apps! John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of J?rgen Welz Sent: Sunday, March 07, 2004 6:01 PM To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: RE: [AccessD] Your favorite control behavior Correct me if I'm mistaken, but my understanding is that a form has it's own class which you can multi instance in various ways and in which you can create property procedures and do any thing else one can do in a class of your own. It sounds not like you are creating a form class but a separate class to shadow the form class. The downside is needing to know the name of a control in order to be able to operate with it. The advantage of hooking up all default behaviors with a function is that you can pass the procedure a reference to the actual control for which the event is triggered so there is no need for collections or code to run on the form open event. Every copy/paste of a control is automatically hooked up to the standard events without ever writing any code except the single function procedures that all copies of the control trigger. You can override the 'inherited' behaviour by changing the function, writing a specific event procedure or passing in one or more additional optional parameters. Correct me again if I'm mistaken, but this facility to hook up events has been around since Access 1 whereas WithEvents is somewhat newer and more esoteric and less universally understood or used. I suspect that developers coming from a Visual Basic background are less familiar with the advantages of this approach, particularly when they bemoan the lack of control arrays. I suspect this facility is the reason that control arrays were never needed in Access. Like Arthur, it looks to me like you write a great deal more code than the one line each of us uses to hook a contol to a common not in list procedure because you need to write and maintain the framework. Ciao J?rgen Welz Edmonton, Alberta jwelz at hotmail.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com IMPORTANT - PLEASE READ ******************** This email and any files transmitted with it are confidential and may contain information protected by law from disclosure. If you have received this message in error, please notify the sender immediately and delete this email from your system. No warranty is given that this email or files, if attached to this email, are free from computer viruses or other defects. They are provided on the basis the user assumes all responsibility for loss, damage or consequence resulting directly or indirectly from their use, whether caused by the negligence of the sender or not. -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From paul.hartland at fsmail.net Mon Mar 8 07:29:26 2004 From: paul.hartland at fsmail.net (paul.hartland at fsmail.net) Date: Mon, 8 Mar 2004 14:29:26 +0100 (CET) Subject: [AccessD] vbSendMail - Using with Access Message-ID: <26242852.1078752566730.JavaMail.www@wwinf3002> To all, I have the VBSendMail.dll which I normally use to send via via Visual Basic 6.0 applications, however I need to try using it with Access XP now, I have copied all my code over and registered the VBSendMail.dll, but when I compile my code I get the error message : User Defined Type Not Defined And points me to this line: Public poSendmail As vbSendMail.clsSendMail What am I missing has anyone used VBSendMail.dll with Access before, I have told people to try using it as I thought it should work without a hitch. Any help greatly appreciated. Paul Hartland Freeserve AnyTime - HALF PRICE for the first 3 months - Save ?7.50 a month www.freeserve.com/anytime From prodevmg at yahoo.com Mon Mar 8 07:47:47 2004 From: prodevmg at yahoo.com (Lonnie Johnson) Date: Mon, 8 Mar 2004 05:47:47 -0800 (PST) Subject: [AccessD] vbSendMail - Using with Access In-Reply-To: <26242852.1078752566730.JavaMail.www@wwinf3002> Message-ID: <20040308134747.89884.qmail@web20405.mail.yahoo.com> I've used it. It works with the vbSendMail.dll and the mswinsck.ocx. You also have to set the reference to the vbSendMail.dll once it is registred. The reference is called SMTP Send Mail for VB6.0 . This is the module that calls it: Option Compare Database 'Module Level Declaration (WithEvents optional but recommended) Public poSendMail As vbSendMail.clsSendMail Public Function SMTPproc(strMailTo As String, _ Optional strMailSubject As String, _ Optional strMailMsg As String, _ Optional strMailAtt As String, _ Optional strMailCc As String) Set poSendMail = New vbSendMail.clsSendMail poSendMail.SMTPHost = "mail.kvc.org" poSendMail.UseAuthentication = True poSendMail.Username = "emailUserName" poSendMail.Password = "thepassword" 'poSendMail.RecipientDisplayName = "" poSendMail.ReplyToAddress = "username at mail.com" poSendMail.CcRecipient = strMailCc poSendMail.from = "username at mail.com" poSendMail.FromDisplayName = "KVC System Attendant" poSendMail.Recipient = strMailTo poSendMail.Subject = strMailSubject poSendMail.Message = strMailMsg '**************** 'For multiple file attachments, you need to separate each _ file name by a semi colon (;) within the string quote. 'poSendMail.Attachment = "c:\test2.txt;c:\test.txt" poSendMail.Attachment = strMailAtt '**************** poSendMail.Send Set poSendMail = Nothing End Function paul.hartland at fsmail.net wrote: To all, I have the VBSendMail.dll which I normally use to send via via Visual Basic 6.0 applications, however I need to try using it with Access XP now, I have copied all my code over and registered the VBSendMail.dll, but when I compile my code I get the error message : User Defined Type Not Defined And points me to this line: Public poSendmail As vbSendMail.clsSendMail What am I missing has anyone used VBSendMail.dll with Access before, I have told people to try using it as I thought it should work without a hitch. Any help greatly appreciated. Paul Hartland Freeserve AnyTime - HALF PRICE for the first 3 months - Save ?7.50 a month www.freeserve.com/anytime -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com Lonnie Johnson ProDev, Professional Development of MS Access Databases Visit me at ==> http://www.prodev.us --------------------------------- Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Search - Find what you?re looking for faster. From mikedorism at adelphia.net Mon Mar 8 08:01:28 2004 From: mikedorism at adelphia.net (Mike & Doris Manning) Date: Mon, 8 Mar 2004 09:01:28 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Your favorite control behavior In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <000001c40515$da19c2f0$9f194244@hargrove.internal> I'm pretty SQL savvy... I'd be interested in helping you out. Doris Manning Database Administrator Hargrove Inc. www.hargroveinc.com -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of John W. Colby Sent: Monday, March 08, 2004 7:45 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] Your favorite control behavior You are correct however I can't efficiently do that since I don't understand the "working with" SQL Server enough to get anywhere. I have a client who is moving one of my apps to SQL Server. It would be nice to be able to get the framework "SQL Server compliant" whatever that may mean. Unfortunately they are using A2K and will continue to do so for quite some time I'm afraid. And I squeeze every bit of "interface" out of Access using things like queries that reference controls on forms, queries that reference my own custom VB (or for that matter Built-in) functions. Both of these are no-nos when working with SQL Server. So it is very much a combination of making the framework itself "data store independent" as well as MY learning how to replace what I do with what will work with SQL Server (or rather non-jet) data stores. For BOTH, I could use an expert in squeezing the last ounce of "interface" out of non-Jet data stores. John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Haslett, Andrew Sent: Monday, March 08, 2004 1:56 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: [AccessD] Your favorite control behavior >>I'd LOVE to work with an extremely competent SQL Server developer / programmer in >> doing this though since I am going to need this functionality but >> don't know SQL Server that well I don't think its SS as much as interfacing with the (OLEDB) driver used to communicate between Access and SQL. That's where your equivalent recordset behaviours come in. Unless youre talking about wrapping your functionality in Stored Procs using a disconnected framework... -----Original Message----- From: John W. Colby [mailto:jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com] Sent: Monday, 8 March 2004 4:26 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] Your favorite control behavior The answer to ADO is yes... with the exception of the form RecordsetClone property which is by definition DAO. I use ADO exclusively in my current framework except for the recordsetclone stuff. I use recordsetclone to get a handle to the current recordset, as well as the current position of the form (what record is displaying) and use that to "move" the form to display a different record etc. As for unbound, hmmm... it probably could. I use a lot of tricks in my framework such as looking at the field that the control is bound to discover the field name, and now that I know how to do so (using DAO) drilling clear down to the table name and field name. So the answer to that is probably, but you might lose a lot of neat functionality. I'd LOVE to work with an extremely competent SQL Server developer / programmer in doing this though since I am going to need this functionality but don't know SQL Server that well. John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Jim Lawrence (AccessD) Sent: Monday, March 08, 2004 12:09 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] Your favorite control behavior Hi John: I have always liked your framework structure concept. I have not been too interested in pursuing that application deployment as, and do not take this the wrong way, most of my work is with SQL server BEs and, correct me if I am wrong, but at first blush, your framework is designed to manage 'bound' DAO programs. My apps may or may not bind the recordsets and these recordset are used to populate the forms...one step removed. Also, I use ADO almost exclusively. Does your framework handle or can be made to handle ADO and Unbound forms? (but bound (qualified) recordsets) Jim -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of John W. Colby Sent: Sunday, March 07, 2004 6:54 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] Your favorite control behavior Andrew, Yes, I am (slowly) learning .net. It's OO stuff is enough to make me drool. Unfortunately it's database stuff is weak and I am a database developer. Stick around (if you are an Access developer) for the framework discussion. Access' inheritance is non-existant so we use workarounds. If I could just inherit the form class and add my stuff I probably would do that but I can't. And of course controls don't have a class at all. Look in .net and a control is just a class that you can inherit like any other class. NICE!!! Lacking that in Access, classes out in a lib is a poor man's substitute and is what I am up to. John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Haslett, Andrew Sent: Sunday, March 07, 2004 9:41 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: [AccessD] Your favorite control behavior I always thought it was "I couldn't care less". Anyway, very interesting discussion. John, not sure if you've looked into yet, but the .Net languages (and many other OO languages I presume) will provide you with a lot of support for what you are trying to implement with your framework. Inherting your pages / controls from a base class will be ideal to 'inherit' common functionality that it seems you are doing. Custom controls (reusable) alse offer the capabilities you are creating with your framework. I haven't looked in detail at your framework or anything - just been browsing these discussions, but was interested to know if you've looked into .Net yet.., as I think you would find it quite interesting. Cheers, A -----Original Message----- From: John W. Colby [mailto:jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com] Sent: Monday, 8 March 2004 12:19 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] Your favorite control behavior >Correct me if I'm mistaken, but my understanding is that a form has >it's own class which you can multi instance in various ways and in which you can create property procedures and do any thing else one can do in a class of your own. It sounds not like you are creating a form class but a separate class to shadow the form class. Yep, you are correct. >The downside is needing to know the name of a control in order to be >able to operate with it. To program certain functionality (such as passing in the table / field / form to a combo for NotInList) that is correct. >The advantage of hooking up all default behaviors with a function is >that you can pass the procedure a reference to the actual control for which the event is triggered so there is no need for collections or code to run on the form open event. I see no advantage there. My form class scans all of my controls and loads a class for each control. That class hooks up all the functionality for them. I don't have to "make sure" I have cut the control from the right place so that stuff is in the event properties. >Every copy/paste of a control is automatically hooked up to the >standard events without ever writing any code except the single function procedures that all copies of the control trigger. So you have replaced writing a few lines of code in the Form's Open (standard, can be cut and pasted) with dozens of cuts and pastes of controls onto the form? Hmmm..... I can definitely see how this might be better.... >You can override the 'inherited' behavior by changing the function, >writing a specific event procedure or passing in one or more additional optional parameters. Of course you can. So can I using my framework and control classes. >Correct me again if I'm mistaken, but this facility to hook up events >has been around since Access 1 whereas WithEvents is somewhat newer and more esoteric and less universally understood or used. That's like saying "The car has been around a lot less time than the horse so why are we using a car". Sure, Withevents were not around when Access 1.0 came out, and of course this is not applicable to 1.0. More powerful tools are handed to us year after year. To say I am not going to use it because it wasn't available in 1.0 is silly and prevents adapting some very powerful tools. Jurgen, I could care less whether you want to use this stuff. I could care less whether you love hooking functions straight up to the event property. That is an option, and if that is the tool you choose to use, that is your business. I have explained to you why I don't touch that stuff, and why, when I have to take over an app where the previous developer uses that method it pains me greatly. I used to use it, don't get me wrong, it's just that there are tons of disadvantages and only one advantage, your "cut and paste" advantage. That "cut and paste" advantage isn't sufficient in my mind to overcome the disadvantages. In fact that advantage has been neatly replaced by Withevents in classes! You have a SINGLE function that you hook to a property, and you have a bunch of functions that you hook to a bunch of properties. I have a class that I pass a control to. I sink the events in that class, then call various functions of the class from those events. The results are similar, but not identical. I can for instance, turn on/off the behaviors using sysvars. My good friend William Hindman was using some stuff of mine and didn't like some specific things I was doing. I simply "switched it off" for him. Nothing more than "go in the sysvar table and set this sysvar = false. His system didn't use that behavior anymore. Try THAT with your method. A framework is waaaay more than just a function hooked to an event, or even a bunch of functions hooked to a bunch of events. It is a whole system that works together. My control classes talk to the form class. The form class loads SysVars that turn on and off functionality of the framework. I can override a given functionality for the entire application, or just for a given form in the application. The control classes "talk to" the form class and ask whether they should exhibit this behavior? The control class simply doesn't care whether the behavior is turned on / off for the entire application or just this form, all they care about is that they are supposed to exhibit the behavior THIS TIME, RIGHT NOW. Tomorrow the user might want the behavior and I go turn it on using a SysVar. TRY THAT with your "cut and paste" stuff!!! >Like Arthur, it looks to me like you write a great deal more code than >the one line each of us uses to hook a control to a common not in list procedure because you need to write and maintain the framework. You are 100% correct. I do write a whole lot more code than you do. In fact I write almost EXACTLY the same code you do, I just make it a part of a whole system rather than an isolated thing that happens. The "way more code" is the stuff required to tie it in and make it a system. When I design a form I don't "cut and paste" a bunch of controls so that they get hooked up properly. My form class loads control classes that hook everything up for me automatically. Whether I have one or a hundred combos on a form, every one can, if it needs it, have any of the various behaviors that the combo class provides. Why in the world would I go somewhere, "cut a control" and paste it in the form a hundred times? Furthermore I can take ANY form, load a form class in that form's Open and have all of my stuff just automatically applied to all of the controls on that form! All the combos suddenly know how to do combo stuff, all the text boxes suddenly know how to do text box stuff. If a given combo needs NotInList (and MANY don't), then a single line of code passes in the correct table / field / form for that combo to know how to do it. Try THAT with your "cut and paste" stuff! I seem to remember butting heads with you in the past. You were always about "the last ounce of (application) speed", and I simply don't care about that last ounce. I am more about speed of development and ease of maintenance. Your "cut and paste" does allow lightweight forms. I could care less. If that is what this is all about, I will hand you your "speed advantage" and you can walk away the winner. I will take my speed of development and ease of maintenance and I too will walk away a winner. I understand what you are doing, I have done it that way in the distant past. Listen to what I am trying to explain where frameworks are concerned, read it, UNDERSTAND it (ALL OF IT), and then if you still love your "cut and paste" stuff... "may the force be with you". And may I never have to maintain your apps! John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of J?rgen Welz Sent: Sunday, March 07, 2004 6:01 PM To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: RE: [AccessD] Your favorite control behavior Correct me if I'm mistaken, but my understanding is that a form has it's own class which you can multi instance in various ways and in which you can create property procedures and do any thing else one can do in a class of your own. It sounds not like you are creating a form class but a separate class to shadow the form class. The downside is needing to know the name of a control in order to be able to operate with it. The advantage of hooking up all default behaviors with a function is that you can pass the procedure a reference to the actual control for which the event is triggered so there is no need for collections or code to run on the form open event. Every copy/paste of a control is automatically hooked up to the standard events without ever writing any code except the single function procedures that all copies of the control trigger. You can override the 'inherited' behaviour by changing the function, writing a specific event procedure or passing in one or more additional optional parameters. Correct me again if I'm mistaken, but this facility to hook up events has been around since Access 1 whereas WithEvents is somewhat newer and more esoteric and less universally understood or used. I suspect that developers coming from a Visual Basic background are less familiar with the advantages of this approach, particularly when they bemoan the lack of control arrays. I suspect this facility is the reason that control arrays were never needed in Access. Like Arthur, it looks to me like you write a great deal more code than the one line each of us uses to hook a contol to a common not in list procedure because you need to write and maintain the framework. Ciao J?rgen Welz Edmonton, Alberta jwelz at hotmail.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com IMPORTANT - PLEASE READ ******************** This email and any files transmitted with it are confidential and may contain information protected by law from disclosure. If you have received this message in error, please notify the sender immediately and delete this email from your system. No warranty is given that this email or files, if attached to this email, are free from computer viruses or other defects. They are provided on the basis the user assumes all responsibility for loss, damage or consequence resulting directly or indirectly from their use, whether caused by the negligence of the sender or not. -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From mikedorism at adelphia.net Mon Mar 8 08:05:04 2004 From: mikedorism at adelphia.net (Mike & Doris Manning) Date: Mon, 8 Mar 2004 09:05:04 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] vbSendMail - Using with Access In-Reply-To: <26242852.1078752566730.JavaMail.www@wwinf3002> Message-ID: <000101c40516$5b453c60$9f194244@hargrove.internal> In addition to defining your class variable, you also have to set it somewhere. SET poSendmail = NEW vbSendMail.clsSendMail Doris Manning Database Administrator Hargrove Inc. www.hargroveinc.com -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of paul.hartland at fsmail.net Sent: Monday, March 08, 2004 8:29 AM To: accessd Subject: [AccessD] vbSendMail - Using with Access To all, I have the VBSendMail.dll which I normally use to send via via Visual Basic 6.0 applications, however I need to try using it with Access XP now, I have copied all my code over and registered the VBSendMail.dll, but when I compile my code I get the error message : User Defined Type Not Defined And points me to this line: Public poSendmail As vbSendMail.clsSendMail What am I missing has anyone used VBSendMail.dll with Access before, I have told people to try using it as I thought it should work without a hitch. Any help greatly appreciated. Paul Hartland Freeserve AnyTime - HALF PRICE for the first 3 months - Save ?7.50 a month www.freeserve.com/anytime -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From paul.hartland at fsmail.net Mon Mar 8 08:47:18 2004 From: paul.hartland at fsmail.net (paul.hartland at fsmail.net) Date: Mon, 8 Mar 2004 15:47:18 +0100 (CET) Subject: [AccessD] vbSendMail - Using with Access Message-ID: <20391716.1078757238139.JavaMail.www@wwinf3003> To all, This is my code I currently have for the VBSendMail.dll : Public poSendmail As vbSendMail.clsSendMail ' Used for the vbSendMail funtion (email directly to SMTP server). Function SendEmail() ' **** SEND THE EMAIL MESSAGE DIRECTLY THROUGHT THE SMTP SERVER (primary) **** Set poSendmail = New vbSendMail.clsSendMail poSendmail.SMTPHost = "Primary" poSendmail.From = "me at orridge.co.uk" poSendmail.FromDisplayName = "me" poSendmail.Recipient = pStrEmailTo poSendmail.ReplyToAddress = "me at orridge.co.uk" poSendmail.Subject = "Personnel Available For Work" poSendmail.Message = pStrEmailBody poSendmail.Send Set poSendmail = Nothing ' ************************************************************************ End Function I?m still getting User Defined Type Not Defined And points me to this line: Public poSendmail As vbSendMail.clsSendMail I have selected ActiveX Controls from the Tools menu in Access and registered it that way, is that correct ? Paul Hartland Message date : Mar 08 2004, 01:51 PM >From : "Lonnie Johnson" To : "Access Developers discussion and problem solving" Copy to : Subject : Re: [AccessD] vbSendMail - Using with Access I've used it. It works with the vbSendMail.dll and the mswinsck.ocx. You also have to set the reference to the vbSendMail.dll once it is registred. The reference is called SMTP Send Mail for VB6.0 . This is the module that calls it: Option Compare Database 'Module Level Declaration (WithEvents optional but recommended) Public poSendMail As vbSendMail.clsSendMail Public Function SMTPproc(strMailTo As String, _ Optional strMailSubject As String, _ Optional strMailMsg As String, _ Optional strMailAtt As String, _ Optional strMailCc As String) Set poSendMail = New vbSendMail.clsSendMail poSendMail.SMTPHost = "mail.kvc.org" poSendMail.UseAuthentication = True poSendMail.Username = "emailUserName" poSendMail.Password = "thepassword" 'poSendMail.RecipientDisplayName = "" poSendMail.ReplyToAddress = "username at mail.com" poSendMail.CcRecipient = strMailCc poSendMail.from = "username at mail.com" poSendMail.FromDisplayName = "KVC System Attendant" poSendMail.Recipient = strMailTo poSendMail.Subject = strMailSubject poSendMail.Message = strMailMsg '**************** 'For multiple file attachments, you need to separate each _ file name by a semi colon (;) within the string quote. 'poSendMail.Attachment = "c:\test2.txt;c:\test.txt" poSendMail.Attachment = strMailAtt '**************** poSendMail.Send Set poSendMail = Nothing End Function paul.hartland at fsmail.net wrote: To all, I have the VBSendMail.dll which I normally use to send via via Visual Basic 6.0 applications, however I need to try using it with Access XP now, I have copied all my code over and registered the VBSendMail.dll, but when I compile my code I get the error message : User Defined Type Not Defined And points me to this line: Public poSendmail As vbSendMail.clsSendMail What am I missing has anyone used VBSendMail.dll with Access before, I have told people to try using it as I thought it should work without a hitch. Any help greatly appreciated. Paul Hartland Freeserve AnyTime - HALF PRICE for the first 3 months - Save ?7.50 a month www.freeserve.com/anytime -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com Lonnie Johnson ProDev, Professional Development of MS Access Databases Visit me at ==> http://www.prodev.us --------------------------------- Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Search - Find what you?re looking for faster. -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com Freeserve AnyTime - HALF PRICE for the first 3 months - Save ?7.50 a month www.freeserve.com/anytime From mikedorism at adelphia.net Mon Mar 8 09:05:29 2004 From: mikedorism at adelphia.net (Mike & Doris Manning) Date: Mon, 8 Mar 2004 10:05:29 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] vbSendMail - Using with Access In-Reply-To: <20391716.1078757238139.JavaMail.www@wwinf3003> Message-ID: <000001c4051e$cbbe4a60$9f194244@hargrove.internal> Did you set a reference to the DLL? Doris Manning Database Administrator Hargrove Inc. www.hargroveinc.com -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of paul.hartland at fsmail.net Sent: Monday, March 08, 2004 9:47 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: Re: [AccessD] vbSendMail - Using with Access To all, This is my code I currently have for the VBSendMail.dll : Public poSendmail As vbSendMail.clsSendMail ' Used for the vbSendMail funtion (email directly to SMTP server). Function SendEmail() ' **** SEND THE EMAIL MESSAGE DIRECTLY THROUGHT THE SMTP SERVER (primary) **** Set poSendmail = New vbSendMail.clsSendMail poSendmail.SMTPHost = "Primary" poSendmail.From = "me at orridge.co.uk" poSendmail.FromDisplayName = "me" poSendmail.Recipient = pStrEmailTo poSendmail.ReplyToAddress = "me at orridge.co.uk" poSendmail.Subject = "Personnel Available For Work" poSendmail.Message = pStrEmailBody poSendmail.Send Set poSendmail = Nothing ' ************************************************************************ End Function I?m still getting User Defined Type Not Defined And points me to this line: Public poSendmail As vbSendMail.clsSendMail I have selected ActiveX Controls from the Tools menu in Access and registered it that way, is that correct ? Paul Hartland Message date : Mar 08 2004, 01:51 PM >From : "Lonnie Johnson" To : "Access Developers discussion and problem solving" Copy to : Subject : Re: [AccessD] vbSendMail - Using with Access I've used it. It works with the vbSendMail.dll and the mswinsck.ocx. You also have to set the reference to the vbSendMail.dll once it is registred. The reference is called SMTP Send Mail for VB6.0 . This is the module that calls it: Option Compare Database 'Module Level Declaration (WithEvents optional but recommended) Public poSendMail As vbSendMail.clsSendMail Public Function SMTPproc(strMailTo As String, _ Optional strMailSubject As String, _ Optional strMailMsg As String, _ Optional strMailAtt As String, _ Optional strMailCc As String) Set poSendMail = New vbSendMail.clsSendMail poSendMail.SMTPHost = "mail.kvc.org" poSendMail.UseAuthentication = True poSendMail.Username = "emailUserName" poSendMail.Password = "thepassword" 'poSendMail.RecipientDisplayName = "" poSendMail.ReplyToAddress = "username at mail.com" poSendMail.CcRecipient = strMailCc poSendMail.from = "username at mail.com" poSendMail.FromDisplayName = "KVC System Attendant" poSendMail.Recipient = strMailTo poSendMail.Subject = strMailSubject poSendMail.Message = strMailMsg '**************** 'For multiple file attachments, you need to separate each _ file name by a semi colon (;) within the string quote. 'poSendMail.Attachment = "c:\test2.txt;c:\test.txt" poSendMail.Attachment = strMailAtt '**************** poSendMail.Send Set poSendMail = Nothing End Function paul.hartland at fsmail.net wrote: To all, I have the VBSendMail.dll which I normally use to send via via Visual Basic 6.0 applications, however I need to try using it with Access XP now, I have copied all my code over and registered the VBSendMail.dll, but when I compile my code I get the error message : User Defined Type Not Defined And points me to this line: Public poSendmail As vbSendMail.clsSendMail What am I missing has anyone used VBSendMail.dll with Access before, I have told people to try using it as I thought it should work without a hitch. Any help greatly appreciated. Paul Hartland Freeserve AnyTime - HALF PRICE for the first 3 months - Save ?7.50 a month www.freeserve.com/anytime -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com Lonnie Johnson ProDev, Professional Development of MS Access Databases Visit me at ==> http://www.prodev.us --------------------------------- Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Search - Find what you?re looking for faster. -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com Freeserve AnyTime - HALF PRICE for the first 3 months - Save ?7.50 a month www.freeserve.com/anytime -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From Bryan_Carbonnell at cbc.ca Mon Mar 8 09:02:34 2004 From: Bryan_Carbonnell at cbc.ca (Bryan Carbonnell) Date: Mon, 08 Mar 2004 10:02:34 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] report graph to power point Message-ID: Save it to HTML. THe graph should be saved as an image. Bryan Carbonnell bryan_carbonnell at cbc.ca >>> joeget at vgernet.net 06-Mar-04 6:31:03 AM >>> is there a way to export a graph from a report to a power point slide? John From paul.hartland at fsmail.net Mon Mar 8 09:10:58 2004 From: paul.hartland at fsmail.net (paul.hartland at fsmail.net) Date: Mon, 8 Mar 2004 16:10:58 +0100 (CET) Subject: [AccessD] vbSendMail - Using with Access Message-ID: <21896052.1078758658157.JavaMail.www@wwinf3003> no, god I would forget my head if it was loose today. Good old Mondays. Thanks to all for all your help. Paul Message date : Mar 08 2004, 03:06 PM >From : "Mike & Doris Manning" To : "'Access Developers discussion and problem solving'" Copy to : Subject : RE: Re: [AccessD] vbSendMail - Using with Access Did you set a reference to the DLL? Doris Manning Database Administrator Hargrove Inc. www.hargroveinc.com -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of paul.hartland at fsmail.net Sent: Monday, March 08, 2004 9:47 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: Re: [AccessD] vbSendMail - Using with Access To all, This is my code I currently have for the VBSendMail.dll : Public poSendmail As vbSendMail.clsSendMail ' Used for the vbSendMail funtion (email directly to SMTP server). Function SendEmail() ' **** SEND THE EMAIL MESSAGE DIRECTLY THROUGHT THE SMTP SERVER (primary) **** Set poSendmail = New vbSendMail.clsSendMail poSendmail.SMTPHost = "Primary" poSendmail.From = "me at orridge.co.uk" poSendmail.FromDisplayName = "me" poSendmail.Recipient = pStrEmailTo poSendmail.ReplyToAddress = "me at orridge.co.uk" poSendmail.Subject = "Personnel Available For Work" poSendmail.Message = pStrEmailBody poSendmail.Send Set poSendmail = Nothing ' ************************************************************************ End Function I?m still getting User Defined Type Not Defined And points me to this line: Public poSendmail As vbSendMail.clsSendMail I have selected ActiveX Controls from the Tools menu in Access and registered it that way, is that correct ? Paul Hartland Message date : Mar 08 2004, 01:51 PM >From : "Lonnie Johnson" To : "Access Developers discussion and problem solving" Copy to : Subject : Re: [AccessD] vbSendMail - Using with Access I've used it. It works with the vbSendMail.dll and the mswinsck.ocx. You also have to set the reference to the vbSendMail.dll once it is registred. The reference is called SMTP Send Mail for VB6.0 . This is the module that calls it: Option Compare Database 'Module Level Declaration (WithEvents optional but recommended) Public poSendMail As vbSendMail.clsSendMail Public Function SMTPproc(strMailTo As String, _ Optional strMailSubject As String, _ Optional strMailMsg As String, _ Optional strMailAtt As String, _ Optional strMailCc As String) Set poSendMail = New vbSendMail.clsSendMail poSendMail.SMTPHost = "mail.kvc.org" poSendMail.UseAuthentication = True poSendMail.Username = "emailUserName" poSendMail.Password = "thepassword" 'poSendMail.RecipientDisplayName = "" poSendMail.ReplyToAddress = "username at mail.com" poSendMail.CcRecipient = strMailCc poSendMail.from = "username at mail.com" poSendMail.FromDisplayName = "KVC System Attendant" poSendMail.Recipient = strMailTo poSendMail.Subject = strMailSubject poSendMail.Message = strMailMsg '**************** 'For multiple file attachments, you need to separate each _ file name by a semi colon (;) within the string quote. 'poSendMail.Attachment = "c:\test2.txt;c:\test.txt" poSendMail.Attachment = strMailAtt '**************** poSendMail.Send Set poSendMail = Nothing End Function paul.hartland at fsmail.net wrote: To all, I have the VBSendMail.dll which I normally use to send via via Visual Basic 6.0 applications, however I need to try using it with Access XP now, I have copied all my code over and registered the VBSendMail.dll, but when I compile my code I get the error message : User Defined Type Not Defined And points me to this line: Public poSendmail As vbSendMail.clsSendMail What am I missing has anyone used VBSendMail.dll with Access before, I have told people to try using it as I thought it should work without a hitch. Any help greatly appreciated. Paul Hartland Freeserve AnyTime - HALF PRICE for the first 3 months - Save ?7.50 a month www.freeserve.com/anytime -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com Lonnie Johnson ProDev, Professional Development of MS Access Databases Visit me at ==> http://www.prodev.us --------------------------------- Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Search - Find what you?re looking for faster. -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com Freeserve AnyTime - HALF PRICE for the first 3 months - Save ?7.50 a month www.freeserve.com/anytime -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com Freeserve AnyTime - HALF PRICE for the first 3 months - Save ?7.50 a month www.freeserve.com/anytime From jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com Mon Mar 8 09:29:06 2004 From: jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com (John W. Colby) Date: Mon, 8 Mar 2004 10:29:06 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Your favorite control behavior In-Reply-To: <000001c40515$da19c2f0$9f194244@hargrove.internal> Message-ID: Are you a proficient programmer? If so I'd love to work with you, just follow the Framework discussion as it unfolds. I have just about decided to rebuild my own framework for the 3rd time (making it a 3rd generation design ;-) and will be doing so via this discussion. John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Mike & Doris Manning Sent: Monday, March 08, 2004 9:01 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: [AccessD] Your favorite control behavior I'm pretty SQL savvy... I'd be interested in helping you out. Doris Manning Database Administrator Hargrove Inc. www.hargroveinc.com -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of John W. Colby Sent: Monday, March 08, 2004 7:45 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] Your favorite control behavior You are correct however I can't efficiently do that since I don't understand the "working with" SQL Server enough to get anywhere. I have a client who is moving one of my apps to SQL Server. It would be nice to be able to get the framework "SQL Server compliant" whatever that may mean. Unfortunately they are using A2K and will continue to do so for quite some time I'm afraid. And I squeeze every bit of "interface" out of Access using things like queries that reference controls on forms, queries that reference my own custom VB (or for that matter Built-in) functions. Both of these are no-nos when working with SQL Server. So it is very much a combination of making the framework itself "data store independent" as well as MY learning how to replace what I do with what will work with SQL Server (or rather non-jet) data stores. For BOTH, I could use an expert in squeezing the last ounce of "interface" out of non-Jet data stores. John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Haslett, Andrew Sent: Monday, March 08, 2004 1:56 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: [AccessD] Your favorite control behavior >>I'd LOVE to work with an extremely competent SQL Server developer / programmer in >> doing this though since I am going to need this functionality but >> don't know SQL Server that well I don't think its SS as much as interfacing with the (OLEDB) driver used to communicate between Access and SQL. That's where your equivalent recordset behaviours come in. Unless youre talking about wrapping your functionality in Stored Procs using a disconnected framework... -----Original Message----- From: John W. Colby [mailto:jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com] Sent: Monday, 8 March 2004 4:26 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] Your favorite control behavior The answer to ADO is yes... with the exception of the form RecordsetClone property which is by definition DAO. I use ADO exclusively in my current framework except for the recordsetclone stuff. I use recordsetclone to get a handle to the current recordset, as well as the current position of the form (what record is displaying) and use that to "move" the form to display a different record etc. As for unbound, hmmm... it probably could. I use a lot of tricks in my framework such as looking at the field that the control is bound to discover the field name, and now that I know how to do so (using DAO) drilling clear down to the table name and field name. So the answer to that is probably, but you might lose a lot of neat functionality. I'd LOVE to work with an extremely competent SQL Server developer / programmer in doing this though since I am going to need this functionality but don't know SQL Server that well. John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Jim Lawrence (AccessD) Sent: Monday, March 08, 2004 12:09 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] Your favorite control behavior Hi John: I have always liked your framework structure concept. I have not been too interested in pursuing that application deployment as, and do not take this the wrong way, most of my work is with SQL server BEs and, correct me if I am wrong, but at first blush, your framework is designed to manage 'bound' DAO programs. My apps may or may not bind the recordsets and these recordset are used to populate the forms...one step removed. Also, I use ADO almost exclusively. Does your framework handle or can be made to handle ADO and Unbound forms? (but bound (qualified) recordsets) Jim -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of John W. Colby Sent: Sunday, March 07, 2004 6:54 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] Your favorite control behavior Andrew, Yes, I am (slowly) learning .net. It's OO stuff is enough to make me drool. Unfortunately it's database stuff is weak and I am a database developer. Stick around (if you are an Access developer) for the framework discussion. Access' inheritance is non-existant so we use workarounds. If I could just inherit the form class and add my stuff I probably would do that but I can't. And of course controls don't have a class at all. Look in .net and a control is just a class that you can inherit like any other class. NICE!!! Lacking that in Access, classes out in a lib is a poor man's substitute and is what I am up to. John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Haslett, Andrew Sent: Sunday, March 07, 2004 9:41 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: [AccessD] Your favorite control behavior I always thought it was "I couldn't care less". Anyway, very interesting discussion. John, not sure if you've looked into yet, but the .Net languages (and many other OO languages I presume) will provide you with a lot of support for what you are trying to implement with your framework. Inherting your pages / controls from a base class will be ideal to 'inherit' common functionality that it seems you are doing. Custom controls (reusable) alse offer the capabilities you are creating with your framework. I haven't looked in detail at your framework or anything - just been browsing these discussions, but was interested to know if you've looked into .Net yet.., as I think you would find it quite interesting. Cheers, A -----Original Message----- From: John W. Colby [mailto:jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com] Sent: Monday, 8 March 2004 12:19 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] Your favorite control behavior >Correct me if I'm mistaken, but my understanding is that a form has >it's own class which you can multi instance in various ways and in which you can create property procedures and do any thing else one can do in a class of your own. It sounds not like you are creating a form class but a separate class to shadow the form class. Yep, you are correct. >The downside is needing to know the name of a control in order to be >able to operate with it. To program certain functionality (such as passing in the table / field / form to a combo for NotInList) that is correct. >The advantage of hooking up all default behaviors with a function is >that you can pass the procedure a reference to the actual control for which the event is triggered so there is no need for collections or code to run on the form open event. I see no advantage there. My form class scans all of my controls and loads a class for each control. That class hooks up all the functionality for them. I don't have to "make sure" I have cut the control from the right place so that stuff is in the event properties. >Every copy/paste of a control is automatically hooked up to the >standard events without ever writing any code except the single function procedures that all copies of the control trigger. So you have replaced writing a few lines of code in the Form's Open (standard, can be cut and pasted) with dozens of cuts and pastes of controls onto the form? Hmmm..... I can definitely see how this might be better.... >You can override the 'inherited' behavior by changing the function, >writing a specific event procedure or passing in one or more additional optional parameters. Of course you can. So can I using my framework and control classes. >Correct me again if I'm mistaken, but this facility to hook up events >has been around since Access 1 whereas WithEvents is somewhat newer and more esoteric and less universally understood or used. That's like saying "The car has been around a lot less time than the horse so why are we using a car". Sure, Withevents were not around when Access 1.0 came out, and of course this is not applicable to 1.0. More powerful tools are handed to us year after year. To say I am not going to use it because it wasn't available in 1.0 is silly and prevents adapting some very powerful tools. Jurgen, I could care less whether you want to use this stuff. I could care less whether you love hooking functions straight up to the event property. That is an option, and if that is the tool you choose to use, that is your business. I have explained to you why I don't touch that stuff, and why, when I have to take over an app where the previous developer uses that method it pains me greatly. I used to use it, don't get me wrong, it's just that there are tons of disadvantages and only one advantage, your "cut and paste" advantage. That "cut and paste" advantage isn't sufficient in my mind to overcome the disadvantages. In fact that advantage has been neatly replaced by Withevents in classes! You have a SINGLE function that you hook to a property, and you have a bunch of functions that you hook to a bunch of properties. I have a class that I pass a control to. I sink the events in that class, then call various functions of the class from those events. The results are similar, but not identical. I can for instance, turn on/off the behaviors using sysvars. My good friend William Hindman was using some stuff of mine and didn't like some specific things I was doing. I simply "switched it off" for him. Nothing more than "go in the sysvar table and set this sysvar = false. His system didn't use that behavior anymore. Try THAT with your method. A framework is waaaay more than just a function hooked to an event, or even a bunch of functions hooked to a bunch of events. It is a whole system that works together. My control classes talk to the form class. The form class loads SysVars that turn on and off functionality of the framework. I can override a given functionality for the entire application, or just for a given form in the application. The control classes "talk to" the form class and ask whether they should exhibit this behavior? The control class simply doesn't care whether the behavior is turned on / off for the entire application or just this form, all they care about is that they are supposed to exhibit the behavior THIS TIME, RIGHT NOW. Tomorrow the user might want the behavior and I go turn it on using a SysVar. TRY THAT with your "cut and paste" stuff!!! >Like Arthur, it looks to me like you write a great deal more code than >the one line each of us uses to hook a control to a common not in list procedure because you need to write and maintain the framework. You are 100% correct. I do write a whole lot more code than you do. In fact I write almost EXACTLY the same code you do, I just make it a part of a whole system rather than an isolated thing that happens. The "way more code" is the stuff required to tie it in and make it a system. When I design a form I don't "cut and paste" a bunch of controls so that they get hooked up properly. My form class loads control classes that hook everything up for me automatically. Whether I have one or a hundred combos on a form, every one can, if it needs it, have any of the various behaviors that the combo class provides. Why in the world would I go somewhere, "cut a control" and paste it in the form a hundred times? Furthermore I can take ANY form, load a form class in that form's Open and have all of my stuff just automatically applied to all of the controls on that form! All the combos suddenly know how to do combo stuff, all the text boxes suddenly know how to do text box stuff. If a given combo needs NotInList (and MANY don't), then a single line of code passes in the correct table / field / form for that combo to know how to do it. Try THAT with your "cut and paste" stuff! I seem to remember butting heads with you in the past. You were always about "the last ounce of (application) speed", and I simply don't care about that last ounce. I am more about speed of development and ease of maintenance. Your "cut and paste" does allow lightweight forms. I could care less. If that is what this is all about, I will hand you your "speed advantage" and you can walk away the winner. I will take my speed of development and ease of maintenance and I too will walk away a winner. I understand what you are doing, I have done it that way in the distant past. Listen to what I am trying to explain where frameworks are concerned, read it, UNDERSTAND it (ALL OF IT), and then if you still love your "cut and paste" stuff... "may the force be with you". And may I never have to maintain your apps! John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of J?rgen Welz Sent: Sunday, March 07, 2004 6:01 PM To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: RE: [AccessD] Your favorite control behavior Correct me if I'm mistaken, but my understanding is that a form has it's own class which you can multi instance in various ways and in which you can create property procedures and do any thing else one can do in a class of your own. It sounds not like you are creating a form class but a separate class to shadow the form class. The downside is needing to know the name of a control in order to be able to operate with it. The advantage of hooking up all default behaviors with a function is that you can pass the procedure a reference to the actual control for which the event is triggered so there is no need for collections or code to run on the form open event. Every copy/paste of a control is automatically hooked up to the standard events without ever writing any code except the single function procedures that all copies of the control trigger. You can override the 'inherited' behaviour by changing the function, writing a specific event procedure or passing in one or more additional optional parameters. Correct me again if I'm mistaken, but this facility to hook up events has been around since Access 1 whereas WithEvents is somewhat newer and more esoteric and less universally understood or used. I suspect that developers coming from a Visual Basic background are less familiar with the advantages of this approach, particularly when they bemoan the lack of control arrays. I suspect this facility is the reason that control arrays were never needed in Access. Like Arthur, it looks to me like you write a great deal more code than the one line each of us uses to hook a contol to a common not in list procedure because you need to write and maintain the framework. Ciao J?rgen Welz Edmonton, Alberta jwelz at hotmail.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com IMPORTANT - PLEASE READ ******************** This email and any files transmitted with it are confidential and may contain information protected by law from disclosure. If you have received this message in error, please notify the sender immediately and delete this email from your system. No warranty is given that this email or files, if attached to this email, are free from computer viruses or other defects. They are provided on the basis the user assumes all responsibility for loss, damage or consequence resulting directly or indirectly from their use, whether caused by the negligence of the sender or not. -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From serbach at new.rr.com Mon Mar 8 09:43:31 2004 From: serbach at new.rr.com (Steven W. Erbach) Date: Mon, 8 Mar 2004 09:43:31 -0600 Subject: [AccessD] Updateable query Message-ID: <20040308094331.702363473.serbach@new.rr.com> Dear Group, I've inherited an application that I'm working (slowly) into better shape. One of the things that has happened to some of the customers for this application (all domestic violence shelters) is that there are some orphaned records in a service log (tblServiceLog); that is a table that shows which service, how much of that service (in hours), when it occured, and who received it; like this: FieldName FieldType =========== ========== LogID AutoNumber ClientID LongInt ServiceDate Date/Time ServiceCode Text Hours Number The "orphans" are those tblServiceLog records that have been entered with no ClientID. Some of the records were re-entered upon the discovery that a previously entered log entry failed to show up on-screen; some were not. I created an audit report that showed all the fields in tblServiceLog that were missing the ClientID. The customer has tracked down which Clients should have received those services and is ready to enter the ClientIDs manually (with my help). What I would like to create is a query that not only shows the tblServiceLog records that are missing ClientIDs, but also those records that were entered a second time so that the ClientIDs "took." I figure that I'd look for records that matched date, service code, and hours. I first did a MakeTable query that lists ServiceDate, ServiceCode, and Hours just for those "orphaned" records. Then I made a query like this: SELECT T.LogID, T.ClientID, T.ServiceDate, T.ServiceCode, T.Hours FROM tblServiceLog AS T INNER JOIN _tmpTblOrphans AS O ON (T.Hours = O.Hours) AND (T.ServiceCode = O.ServiceCode) AND (T.ServiceDate = O.ServiceDate); This gives me the orphans as well as all records with ClientIDs that match date, service, and hours on the days that the orphans received services. Of course, the recordset returned by this query is NOT updateable. I'm drawing a blank as to how I could work this so that the recordset IS updateable. Might this be something I could do with a filter? Regards, Steve Erbach Scientific Marketing Neenah, WI 920-969-0504 "Don't light a match 'til ya know which end of the dog is barkin'." - Dave Barry From serbach at new.rr.com Mon Mar 8 09:53:56 2004 From: serbach at new.rr.com (Steven W. Erbach) Date: Mon, 8 Mar 2004 09:53:56 -0600 Subject: [AccessD] Updateable query Message-ID: <20040308095356.1488263659.serbach@new.rr.com> Dear Group, I may have answered my own question. I did another MakeTable query that just stored the LogIDs generated by the query I posted. Then I made this query which DID produce an updateable recordset: SELECT T.LogID, T.ClientID, T.ServiceDate, T.ServiceCode, T.Hours FROM tblServiceLog AS T WHERE (((T.LogID) In (SELECT [_OrphansIDs].LogID FROM _OrphansIDs;))); Now, if I can just do this without making any temporary tables... Sincerely, Steve Erbach Scientific Marketing Neenah, WI 920-969-0504 From prodevmg at yahoo.com Mon Mar 8 09:51:54 2004 From: prodevmg at yahoo.com (Lonnie Johnson) Date: Mon, 8 Mar 2004 07:51:54 -0800 (PST) Subject: [AccessD] Updateable query In-Reply-To: <20040308094331.702363473.serbach@new.rr.com> Message-ID: <20040308155154.48864.qmail@web20420.mail.yahoo.com> One thing you could try instead of a join is a sub query. In the criteria of the ClientID you could say... Not In (Select ClientID FROM tblOrphans) Hope this helps! "Steven W. Erbach" wrote: Dear Group, I've inherited an application that I'm working (slowly) into better shape. One of the things that has happened to some of the customers for this application (all domestic violence shelters) is that there are some orphaned records in a service log (tblServiceLog); that is a table that shows which service, how much of that service (in hours), when it occured, and who received it; like this: FieldName FieldType =========== ========== LogID AutoNumber ClientID LongInt ServiceDate Date/Time ServiceCode Text Hours Number The "orphans" are those tblServiceLog records that have been entered with no ClientID. Some of the records were re-entered upon the discovery that a previously entered log entry failed to show up on-screen; some were not. I created an audit report that showed all the fields in tblServiceLog that were missing the ClientID. The customer has tracked down which Clients should have received those services and is ready to enter the ClientIDs manually (with my help). What I would like to create is a query that not only shows the tblServiceLog records that are missing ClientIDs, but also those records that were entered a second time so that the ClientIDs "took." I figure that I'd look for records that matched date, service code, and hours. I first did a MakeTable query that lists ServiceDate, ServiceCode, and Hours just for those "orphaned" records. Then I made a query like this: SELECT T.LogID, T.ClientID, T.ServiceDate, T.ServiceCode, T.Hours FROM tblServiceLog AS T INNER JOIN _tmpTblOrphans AS O ON (T.Hours = O.Hours) AND (T.ServiceCode = O.ServiceCode) AND (T.ServiceDate = O.ServiceDate); This gives me the orphans as well as all records with ClientIDs that match date, service, and hours on the days that the orphans received services. Of course, the recordset returned by this query is NOT updateable. I'm drawing a blank as to how I could work this so that the recordset IS updateable. Might this be something I could do with a filter? Regards, Steve Erbach Scientific Marketing Neenah, WI 920-969-0504 "Don't light a match 'til ya know which end of the dog is barkin'." - Dave Barry -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com Lonnie Johnson ProDev, Professional Development of MS Access Databases Visit me at ==> http://www.prodev.us --------------------------------- Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Search - Find what you?re looking for faster. From serbach at new.rr.com Mon Mar 8 10:09:37 2004 From: serbach at new.rr.com (Steven W. Erbach) Date: Mon, 8 Mar 2004 10:09:37 -0600 Subject: [AccessD] Updateable query Message-ID: <20040308100937.832093945.serbach@new.rr.com> Thanks, Lonnie. That's just the approach that got through my thick skull...after clicking the 'Send' button. Regards, Steve Erbach Scientific Marketing Neenah, WI 920-969-0504 "I think that the send button actually turns brains on." -- Bryan Carbonnell From cfoust at infostatsystems.com Mon Mar 8 10:54:39 2004 From: cfoust at infostatsystems.com (Charlotte Foust) Date: Mon, 8 Mar 2004 08:54:39 -0800 Subject: [AccessD] Combo-box control tip Message-ID: Isn't it fun when they do that? Control tips do work on comboboxes, but Access sometimes steps on its own feet. Is there a box on your form with the combobox in it? If so, send the box to the back and just to be cautious, bring the combobox to the front. That's probably the most common reason for tool tips to not show up on a form, because another control layer is on top of them. Charlotte Foust -----Original Message----- From: Arthur Fuller [mailto:artful at rogers.com] Sent: Sunday, March 07, 2004 3:49 PM To: AccessD Subject: [AccessD] Combo-box control tip I added some control-tip text to several combo-boxes, but the text doesn't appear no matter how long I linger there the controltip does not appear. I've copied the text into the status bar so I can fake it for now, but I'd much rather have the control tip working. What am I doing wrong? I assume that since control tip is supported in the properties window that it actually works. Na?ve? Arthur -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From gustav at cactus.dk Mon Mar 8 11:24:23 2004 From: gustav at cactus.dk (Gustav Brock) Date: Mon, 8 Mar 2004 18:24:23 +0100 Subject: [AccessD] Accounting: digits only for account numbers? Message-ID: <4933483336.20040308182423@cactus.dk> Hi all Some of you, I know, are quite experienced in accounting and/or accounting systems. Have any you encountered setups (for serious use) where literals were not only allowed - they are quite often - but actually used in building the chart of accounts for the general ledger? I'm not thinking of setups where simple formatting of numbers could do it, like: U0900-34.00 U7301-22.01 U8398-12.00 but something like this: KH43TBB KL43TBS M3799JH Also, I'm not thinking of old legacy systems nor customer or part numbers as you can meet everything possible here. Slightly OT, I know, but where else to ask? /gustav From cfoust at infostatsystems.com Mon Mar 8 11:39:28 2004 From: cfoust at infostatsystems.com (Charlotte Foust) Date: Mon, 8 Mar 2004 09:39:28 -0800 Subject: [AccessD] Accounting: digits only for account numbers? Message-ID: I've never seen it, but then I've been out of active accounting for years and it may be something new. If I'm designing a system, they can use anything they want because I'm not going to use that as the primary key anyhow. Charlotte Foust -----Original Message----- From: Gustav Brock [mailto:gustav at cactus.dk] Sent: Monday, March 08, 2004 9:24 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: [AccessD] Accounting: digits only for account numbers? Hi all Some of you, I know, are quite experienced in accounting and/or accounting systems. Have any you encountered setups (for serious use) where literals were not only allowed - they are quite often - but actually used in building the chart of accounts for the general ledger? I'm not thinking of setups where simple formatting of numbers could do it, like: U0900-34.00 U7301-22.01 U8398-12.00 but something like this: KH43TBB KL43TBS M3799JH Also, I'm not thinking of old legacy systems nor customer or part numbers as you can meet everything possible here. Slightly OT, I know, but where else to ask? /gustav -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From gustav at cactus.dk Mon Mar 8 12:12:44 2004 From: gustav at cactus.dk (Gustav Brock) Date: Mon, 8 Mar 2004 19:12:44 +0100 Subject: [AccessD] Accounting: digits only for account numbers? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <10736384828.20040308191244@cactus.dk> Hi Charlotte Thanks, no it wouldn't be a "new thing". I should stress that I'm not talking about primary keys but, of course, of unique numbers with or without literals. /gustav > I've never seen it, but then I've been out of active accounting for > years and it may be something new. If I'm designing a system, they can > use anything they want because I'm not going to use that as the primary > key anyhow. > Charlotte Foust > -----Original Message----- > From: Gustav Brock [mailto:gustav at cactus.dk] > Sent: Monday, March 08, 2004 9:24 AM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: [AccessD] Accounting: digits only for account numbers? > Hi all > Some of you, I know, are quite experienced in accounting and/or > accounting systems. > Have any you encountered setups (for serious use) where literals were > not only allowed - they are quite often - but actually used in building > the chart of accounts for the general ledger? > I'm not thinking of setups where simple formatting of numbers could do > it, like: > U0900-34.00 > U7301-22.01 > U8398-12.00 > but something like this: > KH43TBB > KL43TBS > M3799JH > Also, I'm not thinking of old legacy systems nor customer or part > numbers as you can meet everything possible here. > Slightly OT, I know, but where else to ask? > /gustav From KIsmert at TexasSystems.com Mon Mar 8 12:25:53 2004 From: KIsmert at TexasSystems.com (Ken Ismert) Date: Mon, 8 Mar 2004 12:25:53 -0600 Subject: [AccessD] Offtopic: Word, macros and applying styles to paragraphs In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <001101c4053a$cad84670$2a3ca8c0@TEXASSYSTEMS.COM> The built-in method (W2K and later): * Select Format, Style * Select a style and click Modify * In the Modify Style dialog, click Shortcut Key * You can then assign a key combo to your style The only tricky part is the Save Changes In dropdown (bottom right). It is best to save your shortcuts with the document template, rather than overloading Normal.dot -Ken -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of John W. Colby Sent: Saturday, March 06, 2004 8:24 AM To: DBA - Tech; AccessD Subject: [AccessD] Offtopic: Word, macros and applying styles to paragraphs I am working on formatting existing word documents to use styles from a document template. I can select text and then click on the style, select the style and apply that style to the selected text. I'm wondering if Word has a "macro" system that I could use to apply hotkeys to macro styles so that I can just tap hotkeys to apply the styles to the paragraphs selected? John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com Mon Mar 8 12:43:55 2004 From: jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com (John W. Colby) Date: Mon, 8 Mar 2004 13:43:55 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Framework Discussion - Who's following this In-Reply-To: Message-ID: My objective with this discussion is to explain the concepts and implementation of frameworks in sufficient detail that anyone willing to learn can pick up at least a few new ideas, understand classes and how they can solve problems, understand withevents and how using them allows us to encapsulate entire subsystems into an object, and understand Frameworks and how and why they might be useful. I know that this is a rather large objective, and that some of these subjects seem rather deep. I am attempting to keep the details clean and uncluttered in the beginning so that you can not get bogged down in stuff not relevant to the specific subject of the specific post. In order to accomplish this objective I need to get a feeling for who is following this discussion and at what level. Would everyone interested in this thread please answer the following questions: 1) Interest Level a) I already pretty much do what you are discussing, just wanted to see how you do it. b) I am extremely interested in this concept and subject, would probably use it if I can figure it out. c) I am interested and might start using some of this stuff. d) Moderately interested, probably too much work for what I see getting out of it e) Marginally interested, probably never use any of it. 2) Understanding a) I understand completely what is going on b) I mostly follow what is happening but have a couple of things I don't really understand c) I am trying my best but can't really follow a lot of it d) Hopelessly lost, want to understand but need you to slow down a bit. 3) Participation a) I am scanning the posts lightly to just get the basics b) I am reading it and attempting to follow the examples. c) I am reading the posts and working through the included code, and have downloaded the example database d) I am reading and have downloaded the database, and have worked through the examples in the database to see how this stuff works. I truly appreciate your participation. Thanks, John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com From jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com Mon Mar 8 12:43:55 2004 From: jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com (John W. Colby) Date: Mon, 8 Mar 2004 13:43:55 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Offtopic: Word, macros and applying styles to paragraphs In-Reply-To: <001101c4053a$cad84670$2a3ca8c0@TEXASSYSTEMS.COM> Message-ID: COOL! Thanks. John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Ken Ismert Sent: Monday, March 08, 2004 1:26 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: [AccessD] Offtopic: Word, macros and applying styles to paragraphs The built-in method (W2K and later): * Select Format, Style * Select a style and click Modify * In the Modify Style dialog, click Shortcut Key * You can then assign a key combo to your style The only tricky part is the Save Changes In dropdown (bottom right). It is best to save your shortcuts with the document template, rather than overloading Normal.dot -Ken -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of John W. Colby Sent: Saturday, March 06, 2004 8:24 AM To: DBA - Tech; AccessD Subject: [AccessD] Offtopic: Word, macros and applying styles to paragraphs I am working on formatting existing word documents to use styles from a document template. I can select text and then click on the style, select the style and apply that style to the selected text. I'm wondering if Word has a "macro" system that I could use to apply hotkeys to macro styles so that I can just tap hotkeys to apply the styles to the paragraphs selected? John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From adtp at touchtelindia.net Mon Mar 8 13:23:41 2004 From: adtp at touchtelindia.net (A.D.Tejpal) Date: Tue, 9 Mar 2004 00:53:41 +0530 Subject: [AccessD] How to Deal with Time Durations References: Message-ID: <021901c40543$00ef0a70$5d1865cb@winxp> Bryan, One option could be to store the date as a date field and time as string. Relevant query can include a calculated field depicting the time (in seconds) already lapsed or yet to lapse as compared to the present time (as returned by the Timer function). This affords remarkable flexibility in using the data the way any particular situation might demand. If it could be of any help, you could take a look at my sample db named AppointmentsAlert at Rogers Access Library (other developers section). It features an appointments planner. When put into standby mode, the utility goes into minimized state and keeps scanning the status of scheduled appointments at specified time intervals. As & when an event becomes due, an audio alarm is sounded accompanied by a pop-up form displaying the current status of various appointments. In the underlying queries, calculated field named MinutesTillSlot should be of interest to you. Related function named Fn_MinutesTillSlot could be modified to return seconds instead of minutes. Regards, A.D.Tejpal -------------- ----- Original Message ----- From: Bryan Carbonnell To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Sent: Thursday, March 04, 2004 20:14 Subject: [AccessD] How to Deal with Time Durations In a new app that I am creating, of which you will probably hear ALL about it over the next few weeks :), I have to keep track of event durations. Right now I have a field for the start time, and one for the duration. Both are Date/Time fields. The durations for the event can last from 1 second all the way up to many hours, and possibly even days. Should I actually be storing the start and end time and calculating the duration? The duration can be entered as either the actual duration or the actual end time. If you have done something like this, how have you handled it? Thanks, Bryan Carbonnell bryan_carbonnell at cbc.ca -- From cfoust at infostatsystems.com Mon Mar 8 13:25:04 2004 From: cfoust at infostatsystems.com (Charlotte Foust) Date: Mon, 8 Mar 2004 11:25:04 -0800 Subject: [AccessD] Accounting: digits only for account numbers? Message-ID: Yes, I understand that. I've just never seen that particular kind of account numbering. If you use a surrogate primary key, it shouldn't make any difference what literals they use, although you may need a sortkey field to get them in the appropriate order in your chart of accounts. Charlotte Foust -----Original Message----- From: Gustav Brock [mailto:gustav at cactus.dk] Sent: Monday, March 08, 2004 10:13 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Accounting: digits only for account numbers? Hi Charlotte Thanks, no it wouldn't be a "new thing". I should stress that I'm not talking about primary keys but, of course, of unique numbers with or without literals. /gustav > I've never seen it, but then I've been out of active accounting for > years and it may be something new. If I'm designing a system, they > can use anything they want because I'm not going to use that as the > primary key anyhow. > Charlotte Foust > -----Original Message----- > From: Gustav Brock [mailto:gustav at cactus.dk] > Sent: Monday, March 08, 2004 9:24 AM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: [AccessD] Accounting: digits only for account numbers? > Hi all > Some of you, I know, are quite experienced in accounting and/or > accounting systems. > Have any you encountered setups (for serious use) where literals were > not only allowed - they are quite often - but actually used in building > the chart of accounts for the general ledger? > I'm not thinking of setups where simple formatting of numbers could do > it, like: > U0900-34.00 > U7301-22.01 > U8398-12.00 > but something like this: > KH43TBB > KL43TBS > M3799JH > Also, I'm not thinking of old legacy systems nor customer or part > numbers as you can meet everything possible here. > Slightly OT, I know, but where else to ask? > /gustav -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From donald.a.Mcgillivray at mail.sprint.com Mon Mar 8 13:30:50 2004 From: donald.a.Mcgillivray at mail.sprint.com (Mcgillivray, Donald [ITS]) Date: Mon, 8 Mar 2004 13:30:50 -0600 Subject: [AccessD] Framework Discussion - Who's following this Message-ID: <6FC1C7A6E7BD5540AB0A8436713C43BF074A39F7@PKDWB01C.ad.sprint.com> 1) b 2) a/b 3) d Huge thanks, John, for offering your expertise on this topic. I'm largely self-taught and am always paying attention to stuff that appears on this list, gleaning whatever I can about methods, conventions, and common practices. My style has gone from "hugely undisciplined" to "moderately more disciplined" thanks to the stuff I've picked up here. I've been interested in learning and applying classes from the get-go, but have found little in the available literature that is aimed at folks with my background and skill level. Most books I've seen give very cursory coverage (basically mention that the functionality exists, but don't say much about how to use it) and forget about MS "Help". I'm really jazzed to have access to solid explanations with useful examples from an experienced expert. Finally, I think I'll be able to get my head around this stuff and put it to work. Thanks!! BTW, you obviously use a naming convention in your examples. It would be helpful to me (and perhaps to others who share my lack of formal training) to understand what the different prefixes denote, so I can better understand the distinctions between variables, etc.. Is the convention your own, or is it based on some widely used standard that I might study to get a better feel for it? Any help in this area is appreciated. Don McGillivray From Bryan_Carbonnell at cbc.ca Mon Mar 8 13:37:48 2004 From: Bryan_Carbonnell at cbc.ca (Bryan Carbonnell) Date: Mon, 08 Mar 2004 14:37:48 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] How to Deal with Time Durations Message-ID: What I finally decided to do was store the Start Date and Start Time as two different fields. Then Store the End Date and end time as two more fields. On the view form I calculate the duration using some code from the VBADH. On the data entry form, I allow the user to enter either the end date/time OR the duration. Which ever one the enter, I use the ato calculate the other one. I try and avoid converting dates into strings or number if at all possible. Since I live in Canada my users can, and do enter, dates in US format(mm/dd/yyyy) UK Format (dd/mm/yyyy) AND ISO format(yyyy-mm-dd). I try and let Access/VBA deal with the conversions from those formats to the formats it wants to use internally. And to make sure the date gets converted properly I ALWAYS, ALWAYS, ALWAYS format my dates to show letters for the month. That way if it converts 01/02/03 into something the user didn't mean, they can fix it right away. Bryan Carbonnell bryan_carbonnell at cbc.ca >>> adtp at touchtelindia.net 08-Mar-04 2:23:41 PM >>> Bryan, One option could be to store the date as a date field and time as string. Relevant query can include a calculated field depicting the time (in seconds) already lapsed or yet to lapse as compared to the present time (as returned by the Timer function). This affords remarkable flexibility in using the data the way any particular situation might demand. If it could be of any help, you could take a look at my sample db named AppointmentsAlert at Rogers Access Library (other developers section). It features an appointments planner. When put into standby mode, the utility goes into minimized state and keeps scanning the status of scheduled appointments at specified time intervals. As & when an event becomes due, an audio alarm is sounded accompanied by a pop-up form displaying the current status of various appointments. In the underlying queries, calculated field named MinutesTillSlot should be of interest to you. Related function named Fn_MinutesTillSlot could be modified to return seconds instead of minutes. Regards, A.D.Tejpal -------------- ----- Original Message ----- From: Bryan Carbonnell To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Sent: Thursday, March 04, 2004 20:14 Subject: [AccessD] How to Deal with Time Durations In a new app that I am creating, of which you will probably hear ALL about it over the next few weeks :), I have to keep track of event durations. Right now I have a field for the start time, and one for the duration. Both are Date/Time fields. The durations for the event can last from 1 second all the way up to many hours, and possibly even days. Should I actually be storing the start and end time and calculating the duration? The duration can be entered as either the actual duration or the actual end time. If you have done something like this, how have you handled it? Thanks, From john at winhaven.net Mon Mar 8 13:48:45 2004 From: john at winhaven.net (John Bartow) Date: Mon, 8 Mar 2004 13:48:45 -0600 Subject: [AccessD] Framework Discussion - Who's following this In-Reply-To: Message-ID: 1 a-b 2 a-b 3 b-c I truly appreciate your participation. John B. -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of John W. Colby Sent: Monday, March 08, 2004 12:44 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: [AccessD] Framework Discussion - Who's following this My objective with this discussion is to explain the concepts and implementation of frameworks in sufficient detail that anyone willing to learn can pick up at least a few new ideas, understand classes and how they can solve problems, understand withevents and how using them allows us to encapsulate entire subsystems into an object, and understand Frameworks and how and why they might be useful. I know that this is a rather large objective, and that some of these subjects seem rather deep. I am attempting to keep the details clean and uncluttered in the beginning so that you can not get bogged down in stuff not relevant to the specific subject of the specific post. In order to accomplish this objective I need to get a feeling for who is following this discussion and at what level. Would everyone interested in this thread please answer the following questions: 1) Interest Level a) I already pretty much do what you are discussing, just wanted to see how you do it. b) I am extremely interested in this concept and subject, would probably use it if I can figure it out. c) I am interested and might start using some of this stuff. d) Moderately interested, probably too much work for what I see getting out of it e) Marginally interested, probably never use any of it. 2) Understanding a) I understand completely what is going on b) I mostly follow what is happening but have a couple of things I don't really understand c) I am trying my best but can't really follow a lot of it d) Hopelessly lost, want to understand but need you to slow down a bit. 3) Participation a) I am scanning the posts lightly to just get the basics b) I am reading it and attempting to follow the examples. c) I am reading the posts and working through the included code, and have downloaded the example database d) I am reading and have downloaded the database, and have worked through the examples in the database to see how this stuff works. I truly appreciate your participation. Thanks, John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From Kenneth.Stoker at pnl.gov Mon Mar 8 13:46:04 2004 From: Kenneth.Stoker at pnl.gov (Stoker, Kenneth E) Date: Mon, 08 Mar 2004 11:46:04 -0800 Subject: [AccessD] Framework Discussion - Who's following this Message-ID: <249C1CB246997C48BB74963CCD361C1B014A0538@pnlmse28.pnl.gov> 1) b 2) b 3) c Thanks for your efforts and time putting this together, John. Ken Stoker Technology Commercialization Information Systems Administrator PH: (509) 375-3758 FAX: (509) 375-6731 E-mail: Kenneth.Stoker at pnl.gov -----Original Message----- From: John W. Colby [mailto:jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com] Sent: Monday, March 08, 2004 10:44 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: [AccessD] Framework Discussion - Who's following this My objective with this discussion is to explain the concepts and implementation of frameworks in sufficient detail that anyone willing to learn can pick up at least a few new ideas, understand classes and how they can solve problems, understand withevents and how using them allows us to encapsulate entire subsystems into an object, and understand Frameworks and how and why they might be useful. I know that this is a rather large objective, and that some of these subjects seem rather deep. I am attempting to keep the details clean and uncluttered in the beginning so that you can not get bogged down in stuff not relevant to the specific subject of the specific post. In order to accomplish this objective I need to get a feeling for who is following this discussion and at what level. Would everyone interested in this thread please answer the following questions: 1) Interest Level a) I already pretty much do what you are discussing, just wanted to see how you do it. b) I am extremely interested in this concept and subject, would probably use it if I can figure it out. c) I am interested and might start using some of this stuff. d) Moderately interested, probably too much work for what I see getting out of it e) Marginally interested, probably never use any of it. 2) Understanding a) I understand completely what is going on b) I mostly follow what is happening but have a couple of things I don't really understand c) I am trying my best but can't really follow a lot of it d) Hopelessly lost, want to understand but need you to slow down a bit. 3) Participation a) I am scanning the posts lightly to just get the basics b) I am reading it and attempting to follow the examples. c) I am reading the posts and working through the included code, and have downloaded the example database d) I am reading and have downloaded the database, and have worked through the examples in the database to see how this stuff works. I truly appreciate your participation. Thanks, John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From Bryan_Carbonnell at cbc.ca Mon Mar 8 14:02:52 2004 From: Bryan_Carbonnell at cbc.ca (Bryan Carbonnell) Date: Mon, 08 Mar 2004 15:02:52 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Framework Discussion - Who's following this Message-ID: 1 - b 2 - e - haven't had a chance to read then yet, so I have zero comprehension at the moment. 3 - e - haven't had the time to read them yet, but I plan on reading them fully and looking at any samples there are. I truly appreciate you putting this together John. Bryan Carbonnell bryan_carbonnell at cbc.ca From hoopesg at hotmail.com Mon Mar 8 14:08:45 2004 From: hoopesg at hotmail.com (Gina Hoopes) Date: Mon, 08 Mar 2004 14:08:45 -0600 Subject: [AccessD] Framework Discussion - Who's following this Message-ID: 1) b 2) c 3) b Thank you for doing this. I've already learned a lot. Gina From: "John W. Colby" Reply-To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving To: "Access Developers discussion and problem solving" Subject: [AccessD] Framework Discussion - Who's following this Date: Mon, 8 Mar 2004 13:43:55 -0500 My objective with this discussion is to explain the concepts and implementation of frameworks in sufficient detail that anyone willing to learn can pick up at least a few new ideas, understand classes and how they can solve problems, understand withevents and how using them allows us to encapsulate entire subsystems into an object, and understand Frameworks and how and why they might be useful. I know that this is a rather large objective, and that some of these subjects seem rather deep. I am attempting to keep the details clean and uncluttered in the beginning so that you can not get bogged down in stuff not relevant to the specific subject of the specific post. In order to accomplish this objective I need to get a feeling for who is following this discussion and at what level. Would everyone interested in this thread please answer the following questions: 1) Interest Level a) I already pretty much do what you are discussing, just wanted to see how you do it. b) I am extremely interested in this concept and subject, would probably use it if I can figure it out. c) I am interested and might start using some of this stuff. d) Moderately interested, probably too much work for what I see getting out of it e) Marginally interested, probably never use any of it. 2) Understanding a) I understand completely what is going on b) I mostly follow what is happening but have a couple of things I don't really understand c) I am trying my best but can't really follow a lot of it d) Hopelessly lost, want to understand but need you to slow down a bit. 3) Participation a) I am scanning the posts lightly to just get the basics b) I am reading it and attempting to follow the examples. c) I am reading the posts and working through the included code, and have downloaded the example database d) I am reading and have downloaded the database, and have worked through the examples in the database to see how this stuff works. I truly appreciate your participation. Thanks, John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com _________________________________________________________________ Frustrated with dial-up? Lightning-fast Internet access for as low as $29.95/month. http://click.atdmt.com/AVE/go/onm00200360ave/direct/01/ From john at winhaven.net Mon Mar 8 14:09:34 2004 From: john at winhaven.net (John Bartow) Date: Mon, 8 Mar 2004 14:09:34 -0600 Subject: [AccessD] Framework Discussion - Who's following this In-Reply-To: Message-ID: I meant I truly appreciate you doing this... John Doing to many things as once! -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of John Bartow Sent: Monday, March 08, 2004 1:49 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] Framework Discussion - Who's following this 1 a-b 2 a-b 3 b-c I truly appreciate your participation. John B. -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of John W. Colby Sent: Monday, March 08, 2004 12:44 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: [AccessD] Framework Discussion - Who's following this My objective with this discussion is to explain the concepts and implementation of frameworks in sufficient detail that anyone willing to learn can pick up at least a few new ideas, understand classes and how they can solve problems, understand withevents and how using them allows us to encapsulate entire subsystems into an object, and understand Frameworks and how and why they might be useful. I know that this is a rather large objective, and that some of these subjects seem rather deep. I am attempting to keep the details clean and uncluttered in the beginning so that you can not get bogged down in stuff not relevant to the specific subject of the specific post. In order to accomplish this objective I need to get a feeling for who is following this discussion and at what level. Would everyone interested in this thread please answer the following questions: 1) Interest Level a) I already pretty much do what you are discussing, just wanted to see how you do it. b) I am extremely interested in this concept and subject, would probably use it if I can figure it out. c) I am interested and might start using some of this stuff. d) Moderately interested, probably too much work for what I see getting out of it e) Marginally interested, probably never use any of it. 2) Understanding a) I understand completely what is going on b) I mostly follow what is happening but have a couple of things I don't really understand c) I am trying my best but can't really follow a lot of it d) Hopelessly lost, want to understand but need you to slow down a bit. 3) Participation a) I am scanning the posts lightly to just get the basics b) I am reading it and attempting to follow the examples. c) I am reading the posts and working through the included code, and have downloaded the example database d) I am reading and have downloaded the database, and have worked through the examples in the database to see how this stuff works. I truly appreciate your participation. Thanks, John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From rl_stewart at highstream.net Mon Mar 8 14:15:43 2004 From: rl_stewart at highstream.net (Robert L. Stewart) Date: Mon, 08 Mar 2004 14:15:43 -0600 Subject: [AccessD] Re: vbSendMail - Using with Access In-Reply-To: <200403081800.i28I0TM14944@databaseadvisors.com> Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20040308141154.02947220@pop3.highstream.net> Paul, copy the vbsendmail.dll into the windows\system directory START | RUN | regsvr32.exe vbsendmail.dll Then set a reference to it in your VBA code using TOOLS | REFERENCES (it will start with SMTP) I tested it on my computer and it worked perfectly with the code someone else posted for you. Robert At 12:00 PM 3/8/2004 -0600, you wrote: >Message: 6 >Date: Mon, 8 Mar 2004 10:05:29 -0500 >From: "Mike & Doris Manning" >Subject: RE: Re: [AccessD] vbSendMail - Using with Access >To: "'Access Developers discussion and problem solving'" > >Message-ID: <000001c4051e$cbbe4a60$9f194244 at hargrove.internal> >Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" > >Did you set a reference to the DLL? > >Doris Manning >Database Administrator >Hargrove Inc. >www.hargroveinc.com > > >-----Original Message----- >From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com >[mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of >paul.hartland at fsmail.net >Sent: Monday, March 08, 2004 9:47 AM >To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving >Subject: Re: Re: [AccessD] vbSendMail - Using with Access > > >To all, > >This is my code I currently have for the VBSendMail.dll : > >Public poSendmail As vbSendMail.clsSendMail ' Used for the vbSendMail >funtion (email directly to SMTP server). > >Function SendEmail() > ' **** SEND THE EMAIL MESSAGE DIRECTLY THROUGHT THE SMTP SERVER >(primary) **** > > Set poSendmail = New vbSendMail.clsSendMail > > poSendmail.SMTPHost = "Primary" > poSendmail.From = "me at orridge.co.uk" > poSendmail.FromDisplayName = "me" > poSendmail.Recipient = pStrEmailTo > poSendmail.ReplyToAddress = "me at orridge.co.uk" > poSendmail.Subject = "Personnel Available For Work" > poSendmail.Message = pStrEmailBody > poSendmail.Send > > Set poSendmail = Nothing > > ' >************************************************************************ >End Function > >I'm still getting > >User Defined Type Not Defined > >And points me to this line: > >Public poSendmail As vbSendMail.clsSendMail > >I have selected ActiveX Controls from the Tools menu in Access and >registered it that way, is that correct ? > >Paul Hartland From jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com Mon Mar 8 14:19:21 2004 From: jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com (John W. Colby) Date: Mon, 8 Mar 2004 15:19:21 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Framework - Naming conventions Message-ID: Naming conventions is an interesting and useful subject to cover here. I use a convention, loosely based around the LR (Lezinsky-Reddick) convention that even MS promoted before .net came along and they decided that naming conventions were a waste of time. I don't have a copy unfortunately that I can lay my hands on or I would post it on my site. I found this on MS (watch for wrap): http://support.microsoft.com/default.aspx?scid=http://support.microsoft.com: 80/support/kb/articles/Q110/2/64.asp&NoWebContent=1 These elsewhere: http://www.michael-thomas.com/tech/vb/vb_conventions.htm http://www.visibleprogress.com/vb_naming_conventions.htm http://www.developerfusion.com/show/52/3/ Etc. One important thing to note is that there is no "standard". LR was close but for whatever reason the authors decided to stop publishing their standard. I found LR on the inside of the cover of one of the access Bibles, and I loosely adopted it. The accepted wisdom is to find something reasonably common to start with and start using it. Whatever you do, stick to it. You may adapt things as you go and gradually change your convention as you find things that make more sense than what you are using but try your best to stick to what you are using. 1) USE naming conventions, try with all your might to ALWAYS use them (every time you dimension a variable). 2) On that note, set the property of the editor that requires dimensioning variables. In the editor in A2K, Tools / Options / Require variable declaration. This causes the editor to place Option Explicit at the top of every module and FORCES you to dimension a variable before using it. 3) Always dimension variables with the specific type that you need for that variable, avoid Variants like the plague. They have their place - for example passing in data to functions where nulls may cause runtime errors - but should NEVER be used unless you have a damned good reason to do so. I use things like l (lstrLName) for local variables, f (fclsFrm) for form variables declared in form headers, m (mfrm) for module variables declared in module headers. I also try to use c for constants (mclngBlue = 00012345) Others on this list can pipe up with their words of wit/wisdom. John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com From nanette.j.gould at Vanderbilt.Edu Mon Mar 8 14:21:11 2004 From: nanette.j.gould at Vanderbilt.Edu (Gould, Nanette) Date: Mon, 8 Mar 2004 14:21:11 -0600 Subject: [AccessD] Framework Discussion - Who's following this Message-ID: <7AAEB4CF230ABE41A01BEE6470DC407D150692@mailbe01> 1. b 2. c 3. b While I'm buried in a project at the moment, I definitely want to learn about classes and plan to work through the examples to the best of my ability. Thanks, Nanette -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of John W. Colby Sent: Monday, March 08, 2004 12:44 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: [AccessD] Framework Discussion - Who's following this My objective with this discussion is to explain the concepts and implementation of frameworks in sufficient detail that anyone willing to learn can pick up at least a few new ideas, understand classes and how they can solve problems, understand withevents and how using them allows us to encapsulate entire subsystems into an object, and understand Frameworks and how and why they might be useful. I know that this is a rather large objective, and that some of these subjects seem rather deep. I am attempting to keep the details clean and uncluttered in the beginning so that you can not get bogged down in stuff not relevant to the specific subject of the specific post. In order to accomplish this objective I need to get a feeling for who is following this discussion and at what level. Would everyone interested in this thread please answer the following questions: 1) Interest Level a) I already pretty much do what you are discussing, just wanted to see how you do it. b) I am extremely interested in this concept and subject, would probably use it if I can figure it out. c) I am interested and might start using some of this stuff. d) Moderately interested, probably too much work for what I see getting out of it e) Marginally interested, probably never use any of it. 2) Understanding a) I understand completely what is going on b) I mostly follow what is happening but have a couple of things I don't really understand c) I am trying my best but can't really follow a lot of it d) Hopelessly lost, want to understand but need you to slow down a bit. 3) Participation a) I am scanning the posts lightly to just get the basics b) I am reading it and attempting to follow the examples. c) I am reading the posts and working through the included code, and have downloaded the example database d) I am reading and have downloaded the database, and have worked through the examples in the database to see how this stuff works. I truly appreciate your participation. Thanks, John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From davide at dalyn.co.nz Mon Mar 8 14:28:53 2004 From: davide at dalyn.co.nz (David Emerson) Date: Tue, 09 Mar 2004 09:28:53 +1300 Subject: [AccessD] Framework Discussion - Who's following this In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <5.2.0.9.0.20040309092633.00b31d48@mail.dalyn.co.nz> 1. b 2. e - am filing posts. An area I would like to investigate when have more time. 3. e - see above. I appreciate your work. Thanks for your effort. Regards David Emerson Dalyn Software Ltd 25 Cunliffe St, Churton Park Wellington, New Zealand Ph/Fax (877) 456-1205\ At 8/03/2004, John W. Colby wrote: >My objective with this discussion is to explain the concepts and >implementation of frameworks in sufficient detail that anyone willing to >learn can pick up at least a few new ideas, understand classes and how they >can solve problems, understand withevents and how using them allows us to >encapsulate entire subsystems into an object, and understand Frameworks and >how and why they might be useful. I know that this is a rather large >objective, and that some of these subjects seem rather deep. I am >attempting to keep the details clean and uncluttered in the beginning so >that you can not get bogged down in stuff not relevant to the specific >subject of the specific post. > >In order to accomplish this objective I need to get a feeling for who is >following this discussion and at what level. Would everyone interested in >this thread please answer the following questions: > >1) Interest Level > a) I already pretty much do what you are discussing, just wanted > to see how >you do it. > b) I am extremely interested in this concept and subject, would > probably >use it if I can figure it out. > c) I am interested and might start using some of this stuff. > d) Moderately interested, probably too much work for what I see > getting out >of it > e) Marginally interested, probably never use any of it. > >2) Understanding > a) I understand completely what is going on > b) I mostly follow what is happening but have a couple of things > I don't >really understand > c) I am trying my best but can't really follow a lot of it > d) Hopelessly lost, want to understand but need you to slow down > a bit. > >3) Participation > a) I am scanning the posts lightly to just get the basics > b) I am reading it and attempting to follow the examples. > c) I am reading the posts and working through the included code, > and have >downloaded the example database > d) I am reading and have downloaded the database, and have worked > through >the examples in the database to see how this stuff works. > >I truly appreciate your participation. > >Thanks, > >John W. Colby >www.ColbyConsulting.com > > >-- >_______________________________________________ >AccessD mailing list >AccessD at databaseadvisors.com >http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd >Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From Subscriptions at servicexp.com Mon Mar 8 14:49:19 2004 From: Subscriptions at servicexp.com (Robert Gracie) Date: Mon, 8 Mar 2004 15:49:19 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Framework Discussion - Who's following this In-Reply-To: Message-ID: -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of John W. Colby Sent: Monday, March 08, 2004 1:44 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: [AccessD] Framework Discussion - Who's following this My objective with this discussion is to explain the concepts and Ok Here is mine..... 1) Interest Level b) I am extremely interested in this concept and subject, would probably use it if I can figure it out. 2) Understanding b) I mostly follow what is happening but have a couple of things I don't really understand 3) Participation c) I am reading the posts and working through the included code, and have downloaded the example database For me, I would change Number 2 from "would probably" to "will" use it if I can figure it out.. I find my self reading your posts 6-8 times, making sure I understand what it is your teaching. While I downloaded the first Sample db, I saw no new one posted for the Classes - Supervisors post..... Thank You VERY MUCH John!! Robert Gracie www.servicexp.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From Bryan_Carbonnell at cbc.ca Mon Mar 8 14:35:08 2004 From: Bryan_Carbonnell at cbc.ca (Bryan Carbonnell) Date: Mon, 08 Mar 2004 15:35:08 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Framework - Naming conventions Message-ID: Reddick's Naming Convention can be found here: http://www.xoc.net/standards/rvbanc.asp Bryan Carbonnell bryan_carbonnell at cbc.ca >>> jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com 08-Mar-04 3:19:21 PM >>> Naming conventions is an interesting and useful subject to cover here. I use a convention, loosely based around the LR (Lezinsky-Reddick) convention that even MS promoted before .net came along and they decided that naming conventions were a waste of time. I don't have a copy unfortunately that I can lay my hands on or I would post it on my site. I found this on MS (watch for wrap): From garykjos at hotmail.com Mon Mar 8 15:20:31 2004 From: garykjos at hotmail.com (Gary Kjos) Date: Mon, 08 Mar 2004 15:20:31 -0600 Subject: [AccessD] Framework Discussion - Who's following this Message-ID: 1) b (or c depending on what kind of day I'm having) 2) b (or c...see above ;-) ) 3) a I have been interested in your framework concepts and methods of development for years John. It seems like the way to go. I just haven't been able to invest the time to go that route myself even though I know that it would end up SAVING me time and would result in a better end result in the long run. Gary Kjos garykjos at hotmail.com >From: "John W. Colby" >Reply-To: Access Developers discussion and problem >solving >To: "Access Developers discussion and problem >solving" >Subject: [AccessD] Framework Discussion - Who's following this >Date: Mon, 8 Mar 2004 13:43:55 -0500 > >My objective with this discussion is to explain the concepts and >implementation of frameworks in sufficient detail that anyone willing to >learn can pick up at least a few new ideas, understand classes and how they >can solve problems, understand withevents and how using them allows us to >encapsulate entire subsystems into an object, and understand Frameworks and >how and why they might be useful. I know that this is a rather large >objective, and that some of these subjects seem rather deep. I am >attempting to keep the details clean and uncluttered in the beginning so >that you can not get bogged down in stuff not relevant to the specific >subject of the specific post. > >In order to accomplish this objective I need to get a feeling for who is >following this discussion and at what level. Would everyone interested in >this thread please answer the following questions: > >1) Interest Level > a) I already pretty much do what you are discussing, just wanted to see >how >you do it. > b) I am extremely interested in this concept and subject, would probably >use it if I can figure it out. > c) I am interested and might start using some of this stuff. > d) Moderately interested, probably too much work for what I see getting >out >of it > e) Marginally interested, probably never use any of it. > >2) Understanding > a) I understand completely what is going on > b) I mostly follow what is happening but have a couple of things I don't >really understand > c) I am trying my best but can't really follow a lot of it > d) Hopelessly lost, want to understand but need you to slow down a bit. > >3) Participation > a) I am scanning the posts lightly to just get the basics > b) I am reading it and attempting to follow the examples. > c) I am reading the posts and working through the included code, and have >downloaded the example database > d) I am reading and have downloaded the database, and have worked through >the examples in the database to see how this stuff works. > >I truly appreciate your participation. > >Thanks, > >John W. Colby >www.ColbyConsulting.com > > >-- >_______________________________________________ >AccessD mailing list >AccessD at databaseadvisors.com >http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd >Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com _________________________________________________________________ Store more e-mails with MSN Hotmail Extra Storage ? 4 plans to choose from! http://click.atdmt.com/AVE/go/onm00200362ave/direct/01/ From cfoust at infostatsystems.com Mon Mar 8 16:48:17 2004 From: cfoust at infostatsystems.com (Charlotte Foust) Date: Mon, 8 Mar 2004 14:48:17 -0800 Subject: [AccessD] Framework - Naming conventions Message-ID: John, I also started using LR when they first published their joint naming conventions. I've stuck with Leszynski's because I prefer his 3 character tag to the sometimes longer tags Reddick uses. You can find Stan's naming conventions in the book Access 97 Expert Solutions, or here: http://c85.cemi.rssi.ru/access/Books/A97ExSol/contents.htm Charlotte Foust -----Original Message----- From: John W. Colby [mailto:jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com] Sent: Monday, March 08, 2004 12:19 PM To: AccessD Subject: [AccessD] Framework - Naming conventions Naming conventions is an interesting and useful subject to cover here. I use a convention, loosely based around the LR (Lezinsky-Reddick) convention that even MS promoted before .net came along and they decided that naming conventions were a waste of time. I don't have a copy unfortunately that I can lay my hands on or I would post it on my site. I found this on MS (watch for wrap): http://support.microsoft.com/default.aspx?scid=http://support.microsoft. com: 80/support/kb/articles/Q110/2/64.asp&NoWebContent=1 These elsewhere: http://www.michael-thomas.com/tech/vb/vb_conventions.htm http://www.visibleprogress.com/vb_naming_conventions.htm http://www.developerfusion.com/show/52/3/ Etc. One important thing to note is that there is no "standard". LR was close but for whatever reason the authors decided to stop publishing their standard. I found LR on the inside of the cover of one of the access Bibles, and I loosely adopted it. The accepted wisdom is to find something reasonably common to start with and start using it. Whatever you do, stick to it. You may adapt things as you go and gradually change your convention as you find things that make more sense than what you are using but try your best to stick to what you are using. 1) USE naming conventions, try with all your might to ALWAYS use them (every time you dimension a variable). 2) On that note, set the property of the editor that requires dimensioning variables. In the editor in A2K, Tools / Options / Require variable declaration. This causes the editor to place Option Explicit at the top of every module and FORCES you to dimension a variable before using it. 3) Always dimension variables with the specific type that you need for that variable, avoid Variants like the plague. They have their place - for example passing in data to functions where nulls may cause runtime errors - but should NEVER be used unless you have a damned good reason to do so. I use things like l (lstrLName) for local variables, f (fclsFrm) for form variables declared in form headers, m (mfrm) for module variables declared in module headers. I also try to use c for constants (mclngBlue = 00012345) Others on this list can pipe up with their words of wit/wisdom. John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From cfoust at infostatsystems.com Mon Mar 8 16:52:05 2004 From: cfoust at infostatsystems.com (Charlotte Foust) Date: Mon, 8 Mar 2004 14:52:05 -0800 Subject: [AccessD] Framework Discussion - Who's following this Message-ID: John, 1) Don't use it much at work (not my choice) but in my own projects, I use classes extensively, although without a "framework" per se. 2) a 3) a - Although I'm flagging the articles to read carefully when I'm not so bogged down in getting a release out the door. Charlotte Foust -----Original Message----- From: John W. Colby [mailto:jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com] Sent: Monday, March 08, 2004 10:44 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: [AccessD] Framework Discussion - Who's following this My objective with this discussion is to explain the concepts and implementation of frameworks in sufficient detail that anyone willing to learn can pick up at least a few new ideas, understand classes and how they can solve problems, understand withevents and how using them allows us to encapsulate entire subsystems into an object, and understand Frameworks and how and why they might be useful. I know that this is a rather large objective, and that some of these subjects seem rather deep. I am attempting to keep the details clean and uncluttered in the beginning so that you can not get bogged down in stuff not relevant to the specific subject of the specific post. In order to accomplish this objective I need to get a feeling for who is following this discussion and at what level. Would everyone interested in this thread please answer the following questions: 1) Interest Level a) I already pretty much do what you are discussing, just wanted to see how you do it. b) I am extremely interested in this concept and subject, would probably use it if I can figure it out. c) I am interested and might start using some of this stuff. d) Moderately interested, probably too much work for what I see getting out of it e) Marginally interested, probably never use any of it. 2) Understanding a) I understand completely what is going on b) I mostly follow what is happening but have a couple of things I don't really understand c) I am trying my best but can't really follow a lot of it d) Hopelessly lost, want to understand but need you to slow down a bit. 3) Participation a) I am scanning the posts lightly to just get the basics b) I am reading it and attempting to follow the examples. c) I am reading the posts and working through the included code, and have downloaded the example database d) I am reading and have downloaded the database, and have worked through the examples in the database to see how this stuff works. I truly appreciate your participation. Thanks, John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From James at fcidms.com Mon Mar 8 17:04:13 2004 From: James at fcidms.com (James Barash) Date: Mon, 8 Mar 2004 18:04:13 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Framework Discussion - Who's following this In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <200403082304.SAA08716@twister.bcentralhost.com> John, I've found this very interesting. Having moved from an more Object Oriented environment to Access, I've often been frustrated by what you cannot do. Having developed my own ways around some of these issues, including a number of classes to at least simulate some form of inheritance although without a formal framework, it's always interesting to see some else's approach. As for you questions: 1) a 2) a 3) b James Barash From jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com Mon Mar 8 17:12:23 2004 From: jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com (John W. Colby) Date: Mon, 8 Mar 2004 18:12:23 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Framework - Naming conventions In-Reply-To: Message-ID: OK, I found on my hard disk an old style help file of Leszynski Naming Conventions. I zipped it up and placed it on my site, and may I not be sued for copyright infringement. It's under "Useful files" the top item. John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Charlotte Foust Sent: Monday, March 08, 2004 5:48 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] Framework - Naming conventions John, I also started using LR when they first published their joint naming conventions. I've stuck with Leszynski's because I prefer his 3 character tag to the sometimes longer tags Reddick uses. You can find Stan's naming conventions in the book Access 97 Expert Solutions, or here: http://c85.cemi.rssi.ru/access/Books/A97ExSol/contents.htm Charlotte Foust From terry.mace at baesystems.com Mon Mar 8 18:35:17 2004 From: terry.mace at baesystems.com (MACE, Terry) Date: Tue, 9 Mar 2004 11:05:17 +1030 Subject: [AccessD] Framework Discussion - Who's following this Message-ID: 1-c 2-bc 3-b (looking for time to do c) Thanks for all this effort. Terry Mace -----Original Message----- From: John W. Colby [mailto:jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com] Sent: Tuesday, 9 March 2004 05:44 To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: [AccessD] Framework Discussion - Who's following this My objective with this discussion is to explain the concepts and implementation of frameworks in sufficient detail that anyone willing to learn can pick up at least a few new ideas, understand classes and how they can solve problems, understand withevents and how using them allows us to encapsulate entire subsystems into an object, and understand Frameworks and how and why they might be useful. I know that this is a rather large objective, and that some of these subjects seem rather deep. I am attempting to keep the details clean and uncluttered in the beginning so that you can not get bogged down in stuff not relevant to the specific subject of the specific post. In order to accomplish this objective I need to get a feeling for who is following this discussion and at what level. Would everyone interested in this thread please answer the following questions: 1) Interest Level a) I already pretty much do what you are discussing, just wanted to see how you do it. b) I am extremely interested in this concept and subject, would probably use it if I can figure it out. c) I am interested and might start using some of this stuff. d) Moderately interested, probably too much work for what I see getting out of it e) Marginally interested, probably never use any of it. 2) Understanding a) I understand completely what is going on b) I mostly follow what is happening but have a couple of things I don't really understand c) I am trying my best but can't really follow a lot of it d) Hopelessly lost, want to understand but need you to slow down a bit. 3) Participation a) I am scanning the posts lightly to just get the basics b) I am reading it and attempting to follow the examples. c) I am reading the posts and working through the included code, and have downloaded the example database d) I am reading and have downloaded the database, and have worked through the examples in the database to see how this stuff works. I truly appreciate your participation. Thanks, John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From accessd at shaw.ca Mon Mar 8 19:59:46 2004 From: accessd at shaw.ca (Jim Lawrence (AccessD)) Date: Mon, 08 Mar 2004 17:59:46 -0800 Subject: [AccessD] Your favorite control behavior In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Hi John: >I'd LOVE to work with an extremely competent SQL Server developer... So would I.:-) I am a compentent SQL programmer but if you are looking for 'extremmely competent' then SQL list is the place for recruits. Jim -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of John W. Colby Sent: Sunday, March 07, 2004 9:56 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] Your favorite control behavior The answer to ADO is yes... with the exception of the form RecordsetClone property which is by definition DAO. I use ADO exclusively in my current framework except for the recordsetclone stuff. I use recordsetclone to get a handle to the current recordset, as well as the current position of the form (what record is displaying) and use that to "move" the form to display a different record etc. As for unbound, hmmm... it probably could. I use a lot of tricks in my framework such as looking at the field that the control is bound to discover the field name, and now that I know how to do so (using DAO) drilling clear down to the table name and field name. So the answer to that is probably, but you might lose a lot of neat functionality. I'd LOVE to work with an extremely competent SQL Server developer / programmer in doing this though since I am going to need this functionality but don't know SQL Server that well. John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Jim Lawrence (AccessD) Sent: Monday, March 08, 2004 12:09 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] Your favorite control behavior Hi John: I have always liked your framework structure concept. I have not been too interested in pursuing that application deployment as, and do not take this the wrong way, most of my work is with SQL server BEs and, correct me if I am wrong, but at first blush, your framework is designed to manage 'bound' DAO programs. My apps may or may not bind the recordsets and these recordset are used to populate the forms...one step removed. Also, I use ADO almost exclusively. Does your framework handle or can be made to handle ADO and Unbound forms? (but bound (qualified) recordsets) Jim -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of John W. Colby Sent: Sunday, March 07, 2004 6:54 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] Your favorite control behavior Andrew, Yes, I am (slowly) learning .net. It's OO stuff is enough to make me drool. Unfortunately it's database stuff is weak and I am a database developer. Stick around (if you are an Access developer) for the framework discussion. Access' inheritance is non-existant so we use workarounds. If I could just inherit the form class and add my stuff I probably would do that but I can't. And of course controls don't have a class at all. Look in .net and a control is just a class that you can inherit like any other class. NICE!!! Lacking that in Access, classes out in a lib is a poor man's substitute and is what I am up to. John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Haslett, Andrew Sent: Sunday, March 07, 2004 9:41 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: [AccessD] Your favorite control behavior I always thought it was "I couldn't care less". Anyway, very interesting discussion. John, not sure if you've looked into yet, but the .Net languages (and many other OO languages I presume) will provide you with a lot of support for what you are trying to implement with your framework. Inherting your pages / controls from a base class will be ideal to 'inherit' common functionality that it seems you are doing. Custom controls (reusable) alse offer the capabilities you are creating with your framework. I haven't looked in detail at your framework or anything - just been browsing these discussions, but was interested to know if you've looked into .Net yet.., as I think you would find it quite interesting. Cheers, A -----Original Message----- From: John W. Colby [mailto:jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com] Sent: Monday, 8 March 2004 12:19 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] Your favorite control behavior >Correct me if I'm mistaken, but my understanding is that a form has >it's own class which you can multi instance in various ways and in which you can create property procedures and do any thing else one can do in a class of your own. It sounds not like you are creating a form class but a separate class to shadow the form class. Yep, you are correct. >The downside is needing to know the name of a control in order to be >able to operate with it. To program certain functionality (such as passing in the table / field / form to a combo for NotInList) that is correct. >The advantage of hooking up all default behaviors with a function is >that you can pass the procedure a reference to the actual control for which the event is triggered so there is no need for collections or code to run on the form open event. I see no advantage there. My form class scans all of my controls and loads a class for each control. That class hooks up all the functionality for them. I don't have to "make sure" I have cut the control from the right place so that stuff is in the event properties. >Every copy/paste of a control is automatically hooked up to the >standard events without ever writing any code except the single function procedures that all copies of the control trigger. So you have replaced writing a few lines of code in the Form's Open (standard, can be cut and pasted) with dozens of cuts and pastes of controls onto the form? Hmmm..... I can definitely see how this might be better.... >You can override the 'inherited' behavior by changing the function, >writing a specific event procedure or passing in one or more additional optional parameters. Of course you can. So can I using my framework and control classes. >Correct me again if I'm mistaken, but this facility to hook up events >has been around since Access 1 whereas WithEvents is somewhat newer and more esoteric and less universally understood or used. That's like saying "The car has been around a lot less time than the horse so why are we using a car". Sure, Withevents were not around when Access 1.0 came out, and of course this is not applicable to 1.0. More powerful tools are handed to us year after year. To say I am not going to use it because it wasn't available in 1.0 is silly and prevents adapting some very powerful tools. Jurgen, I could care less whether you want to use this stuff. I could care less whether you love hooking functions straight up to the event property. That is an option, and if that is the tool you choose to use, that is your business. I have explained to you why I don't touch that stuff, and why, when I have to take over an app where the previous developer uses that method it pains me greatly. I used to use it, don't get me wrong, it's just that there are tons of disadvantages and only one advantage, your "cut and paste" advantage. That "cut and paste" advantage isn't sufficient in my mind to overcome the disadvantages. In fact that advantage has been neatly replaced by Withevents in classes! You have a SINGLE function that you hook to a property, and you have a bunch of functions that you hook to a bunch of properties. I have a class that I pass a control to. I sink the events in that class, then call various functions of the class from those events. The results are similar, but not identical. I can for instance, turn on/off the behaviors using sysvars. My good friend William Hindman was using some stuff of mine and didn't like some specific things I was doing. I simply "switched it off" for him. Nothing more than "go in the sysvar table and set this sysvar = false. His system didn't use that behavior anymore. Try THAT with your method. A framework is waaaay more than just a function hooked to an event, or even a bunch of functions hooked to a bunch of events. It is a whole system that works together. My control classes talk to the form class. The form class loads SysVars that turn on and off functionality of the framework. I can override a given functionality for the entire application, or just for a given form in the application. The control classes "talk to" the form class and ask whether they should exhibit this behavior? The control class simply doesn't care whether the behavior is turned on / off for the entire application or just this form, all they care about is that they are supposed to exhibit the behavior THIS TIME, RIGHT NOW. Tomorrow the user might want the behavior and I go turn it on using a SysVar. TRY THAT with your "cut and paste" stuff!!! >Like Arthur, it looks to me like you write a great deal more code than >the one line each of us uses to hook a control to a common not in list procedure because you need to write and maintain the framework. You are 100% correct. I do write a whole lot more code than you do. In fact I write almost EXACTLY the same code you do, I just make it a part of a whole system rather than an isolated thing that happens. The "way more code" is the stuff required to tie it in and make it a system. When I design a form I don't "cut and paste" a bunch of controls so that they get hooked up properly. My form class loads control classes that hook everything up for me automatically. Whether I have one or a hundred combos on a form, every one can, if it needs it, have any of the various behaviors that the combo class provides. Why in the world would I go somewhere, "cut a control" and paste it in the form a hundred times? Furthermore I can take ANY form, load a form class in that form's Open and have all of my stuff just automatically applied to all of the controls on that form! All the combos suddenly know how to do combo stuff, all the text boxes suddenly know how to do text box stuff. If a given combo needs NotInList (and MANY don't), then a single line of code passes in the correct table / field / form for that combo to know how to do it. Try THAT with your "cut and paste" stuff! I seem to remember butting heads with you in the past. You were always about "the last ounce of (application) speed", and I simply don't care about that last ounce. I am more about speed of development and ease of maintenance. Your "cut and paste" does allow lightweight forms. I could care less. If that is what this is all about, I will hand you your "speed advantage" and you can walk away the winner. I will take my speed of development and ease of maintenance and I too will walk away a winner. I understand what you are doing, I have done it that way in the distant past. Listen to what I am trying to explain where frameworks are concerned, read it, UNDERSTAND it (ALL OF IT), and then if you still love your "cut and paste" stuff... "may the force be with you". And may I never have to maintain your apps! John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of J?rgen Welz Sent: Sunday, March 07, 2004 6:01 PM To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: RE: [AccessD] Your favorite control behavior Correct me if I'm mistaken, but my understanding is that a form has it's own class which you can multi instance in various ways and in which you can create property procedures and do any thing else one can do in a class of your own. It sounds not like you are creating a form class but a separate class to shadow the form class. The downside is needing to know the name of a control in order to be able to operate with it. The advantage of hooking up all default behaviors with a function is that you can pass the procedure a reference to the actual control for which the event is triggered so there is no need for collections or code to run on the form open event. Every copy/paste of a control is automatically hooked up to the standard events without ever writing any code except the single function procedures that all copies of the control trigger. You can override the 'inherited' behaviour by changing the function, writing a specific event procedure or passing in one or more additional optional parameters. Correct me again if I'm mistaken, but this facility to hook up events has been around since Access 1 whereas WithEvents is somewhat newer and more esoteric and less universally understood or used. I suspect that developers coming from a Visual Basic background are less familiar with the advantages of this approach, particularly when they bemoan the lack of control arrays. I suspect this facility is the reason that control arrays were never needed in Access. Like Arthur, it looks to me like you write a great deal more code than the one line each of us uses to hook a contol to a common not in list procedure because you need to write and maintain the framework. Ciao J?rgen Welz Edmonton, Alberta jwelz at hotmail.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com Mon Mar 8 20:26:29 2004 From: jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com (John W. Colby) Date: Mon, 8 Mar 2004 21:26:29 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Your favorite control behavior In-Reply-To: Message-ID: LOL. John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Jim Lawrence (AccessD) Sent: Monday, March 08, 2004 9:00 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] Your favorite control behavior Hi John: >I'd LOVE to work with an extremely competent SQL Server developer... So would I.:-) I am a compentent SQL programmer but if you are looking for 'extremmely competent' then SQL list is the place for recruits. Jim -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of John W. Colby Sent: Sunday, March 07, 2004 9:56 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] Your favorite control behavior The answer to ADO is yes... with the exception of the form RecordsetClone property which is by definition DAO. I use ADO exclusively in my current framework except for the recordsetclone stuff. I use recordsetclone to get a handle to the current recordset, as well as the current position of the form (what record is displaying) and use that to "move" the form to display a different record etc. As for unbound, hmmm... it probably could. I use a lot of tricks in my framework such as looking at the field that the control is bound to discover the field name, and now that I know how to do so (using DAO) drilling clear down to the table name and field name. So the answer to that is probably, but you might lose a lot of neat functionality. I'd LOVE to work with an extremely competent SQL Server developer / programmer in doing this though since I am going to need this functionality but don't know SQL Server that well. John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Jim Lawrence (AccessD) Sent: Monday, March 08, 2004 12:09 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] Your favorite control behavior Hi John: I have always liked your framework structure concept. I have not been too interested in pursuing that application deployment as, and do not take this the wrong way, most of my work is with SQL server BEs and, correct me if I am wrong, but at first blush, your framework is designed to manage 'bound' DAO programs. My apps may or may not bind the recordsets and these recordset are used to populate the forms...one step removed. Also, I use ADO almost exclusively. Does your framework handle or can be made to handle ADO and Unbound forms? (but bound (qualified) recordsets) Jim -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of John W. Colby Sent: Sunday, March 07, 2004 6:54 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] Your favorite control behavior Andrew, Yes, I am (slowly) learning .net. It's OO stuff is enough to make me drool. Unfortunately it's database stuff is weak and I am a database developer. Stick around (if you are an Access developer) for the framework discussion. Access' inheritance is non-existant so we use workarounds. If I could just inherit the form class and add my stuff I probably would do that but I can't. And of course controls don't have a class at all. Look in .net and a control is just a class that you can inherit like any other class. NICE!!! Lacking that in Access, classes out in a lib is a poor man's substitute and is what I am up to. John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Haslett, Andrew Sent: Sunday, March 07, 2004 9:41 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: [AccessD] Your favorite control behavior I always thought it was "I couldn't care less". Anyway, very interesting discussion. John, not sure if you've looked into yet, but the .Net languages (and many other OO languages I presume) will provide you with a lot of support for what you are trying to implement with your framework. Inherting your pages / controls from a base class will be ideal to 'inherit' common functionality that it seems you are doing. Custom controls (reusable) alse offer the capabilities you are creating with your framework. I haven't looked in detail at your framework or anything - just been browsing these discussions, but was interested to know if you've looked into .Net yet.., as I think you would find it quite interesting. Cheers, A -----Original Message----- From: John W. Colby [mailto:jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com] Sent: Monday, 8 March 2004 12:19 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] Your favorite control behavior >Correct me if I'm mistaken, but my understanding is that a form has >it's own class which you can multi instance in various ways and in which you can create property procedures and do any thing else one can do in a class of your own. It sounds not like you are creating a form class but a separate class to shadow the form class. Yep, you are correct. >The downside is needing to know the name of a control in order to be >able to operate with it. To program certain functionality (such as passing in the table / field / form to a combo for NotInList) that is correct. >The advantage of hooking up all default behaviors with a function is >that you can pass the procedure a reference to the actual control for which the event is triggered so there is no need for collections or code to run on the form open event. I see no advantage there. My form class scans all of my controls and loads a class for each control. That class hooks up all the functionality for them. I don't have to "make sure" I have cut the control from the right place so that stuff is in the event properties. >Every copy/paste of a control is automatically hooked up to the >standard events without ever writing any code except the single function procedures that all copies of the control trigger. So you have replaced writing a few lines of code in the Form's Open (standard, can be cut and pasted) with dozens of cuts and pastes of controls onto the form? Hmmm..... I can definitely see how this might be better.... >You can override the 'inherited' behavior by changing the function, >writing a specific event procedure or passing in one or more additional optional parameters. Of course you can. So can I using my framework and control classes. >Correct me again if I'm mistaken, but this facility to hook up events >has been around since Access 1 whereas WithEvents is somewhat newer and more esoteric and less universally understood or used. That's like saying "The car has been around a lot less time than the horse so why are we using a car". Sure, Withevents were not around when Access 1.0 came out, and of course this is not applicable to 1.0. More powerful tools are handed to us year after year. To say I am not going to use it because it wasn't available in 1.0 is silly and prevents adapting some very powerful tools. Jurgen, I could care less whether you want to use this stuff. I could care less whether you love hooking functions straight up to the event property. That is an option, and if that is the tool you choose to use, that is your business. I have explained to you why I don't touch that stuff, and why, when I have to take over an app where the previous developer uses that method it pains me greatly. I used to use it, don't get me wrong, it's just that there are tons of disadvantages and only one advantage, your "cut and paste" advantage. That "cut and paste" advantage isn't sufficient in my mind to overcome the disadvantages. In fact that advantage has been neatly replaced by Withevents in classes! You have a SINGLE function that you hook to a property, and you have a bunch of functions that you hook to a bunch of properties. I have a class that I pass a control to. I sink the events in that class, then call various functions of the class from those events. The results are similar, but not identical. I can for instance, turn on/off the behaviors using sysvars. My good friend William Hindman was using some stuff of mine and didn't like some specific things I was doing. I simply "switched it off" for him. Nothing more than "go in the sysvar table and set this sysvar = false. His system didn't use that behavior anymore. Try THAT with your method. A framework is waaaay more than just a function hooked to an event, or even a bunch of functions hooked to a bunch of events. It is a whole system that works together. My control classes talk to the form class. The form class loads SysVars that turn on and off functionality of the framework. I can override a given functionality for the entire application, or just for a given form in the application. The control classes "talk to" the form class and ask whether they should exhibit this behavior? The control class simply doesn't care whether the behavior is turned on / off for the entire application or just this form, all they care about is that they are supposed to exhibit the behavior THIS TIME, RIGHT NOW. Tomorrow the user might want the behavior and I go turn it on using a SysVar. TRY THAT with your "cut and paste" stuff!!! >Like Arthur, it looks to me like you write a great deal more code than >the one line each of us uses to hook a control to a common not in list procedure because you need to write and maintain the framework. You are 100% correct. I do write a whole lot more code than you do. In fact I write almost EXACTLY the same code you do, I just make it a part of a whole system rather than an isolated thing that happens. The "way more code" is the stuff required to tie it in and make it a system. When I design a form I don't "cut and paste" a bunch of controls so that they get hooked up properly. My form class loads control classes that hook everything up for me automatically. Whether I have one or a hundred combos on a form, every one can, if it needs it, have any of the various behaviors that the combo class provides. Why in the world would I go somewhere, "cut a control" and paste it in the form a hundred times? Furthermore I can take ANY form, load a form class in that form's Open and have all of my stuff just automatically applied to all of the controls on that form! All the combos suddenly know how to do combo stuff, all the text boxes suddenly know how to do text box stuff. If a given combo needs NotInList (and MANY don't), then a single line of code passes in the correct table / field / form for that combo to know how to do it. Try THAT with your "cut and paste" stuff! I seem to remember butting heads with you in the past. You were always about "the last ounce of (application) speed", and I simply don't care about that last ounce. I am more about speed of development and ease of maintenance. Your "cut and paste" does allow lightweight forms. I could care less. If that is what this is all about, I will hand you your "speed advantage" and you can walk away the winner. I will take my speed of development and ease of maintenance and I too will walk away a winner. I understand what you are doing, I have done it that way in the distant past. Listen to what I am trying to explain where frameworks are concerned, read it, UNDERSTAND it (ALL OF IT), and then if you still love your "cut and paste" stuff... "may the force be with you". And may I never have to maintain your apps! John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of J?rgen Welz Sent: Sunday, March 07, 2004 6:01 PM To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: RE: [AccessD] Your favorite control behavior Correct me if I'm mistaken, but my understanding is that a form has it's own class which you can multi instance in various ways and in which you can create property procedures and do any thing else one can do in a class of your own. It sounds not like you are creating a form class but a separate class to shadow the form class. The downside is needing to know the name of a control in order to be able to operate with it. The advantage of hooking up all default behaviors with a function is that you can pass the procedure a reference to the actual control for which the event is triggered so there is no need for collections or code to run on the form open event. Every copy/paste of a control is automatically hooked up to the standard events without ever writing any code except the single function procedures that all copies of the control trigger. You can override the 'inherited' behaviour by changing the function, writing a specific event procedure or passing in one or more additional optional parameters. Correct me again if I'm mistaken, but this facility to hook up events has been around since Access 1 whereas WithEvents is somewhat newer and more esoteric and less universally understood or used. I suspect that developers coming from a Visual Basic background are less familiar with the advantages of this approach, particularly when they bemoan the lack of control arrays. I suspect this facility is the reason that control arrays were never needed in Access. Like Arthur, it looks to me like you write a great deal more code than the one line each of us uses to hook a contol to a common not in list procedure because you need to write and maintain the framework. Ciao J?rgen Welz Edmonton, Alberta jwelz at hotmail.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com Mon Mar 8 21:12:22 2004 From: jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com (John W. Colby) Date: Mon, 8 Mar 2004 22:12:22 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Framework Discussion - More classes Message-ID: We left off our discussion having built a framework class and a text box class. The text box class did nothing more than change the back color of the text box to cyan as it got the focus and back to the original color as it lost the focus. The form class did nothing more than scan the form?s Control collection looking for controls and instantiating classes for any controls that we had a class for ? just the text box class so far. For demo code look in C2DbFW3G-DemoCtlClassV2.zip for DemoCtlClassV2.mdb. This document can be found in there as well. I am deleting the old forms to clean up the demo database and let us focus on the new stuff. Today I am going to add a couple of more classes to our framework and tie them in to what we are doing. First I am going to add a combo class. The combo class will also do nothing more than change the back color as it gets / loses focus. I know this may be boring but it demonstrates clearly that the classes are being instantiated by the form?s control scanner and that the control classes do indeed load, sink events for their respective control and perform some action. Believe me, we have come a long way towards understanding how classes work, how withevents work, and how classes can play and work together. The dclsCbo The combo class is going to start out looking very much like the text box class. In fact I took the text box class, and used the editor to replace text with combo to create a new class. Option Compare Database Option Explicit The header just dimensions the combo control private, withevents, creates a constant string, a constant back color, and a variable backcolor to store the original backcolor. Private WithEvents mcbo As ComboBox 'Dimension a text box Withevents Private Const mstrEventProcedure = "[Event Procedure]" 'A constant to hold the string [Event Procedure] Private Const mclngBackColor As Long = 16777088 'A pretty blue color to set the text box back color to Private mlngBackColorOrig As Long 'A place to store the original back color The init is passed in a pointer to a specific combo and stores that in our private combo variable. It also sets up the combo?s OnEnter and OnExit properties. 'The init function of every class "initializes" the class Function Init(lcbo As ComboBox) 'Pass in a pointer to a specific control Set mcbo = lcbo 'Save that pointer to a private variable here in the class mcbo.OnEnter = mstrEventProcedure 'Set the OnEnter property of the control to [Event Procedure] mcbo.OnExit = mstrEventProcedure 'Do the same for the OnExit End Function The term does nothing more than clean up pointers to objects, in this case the combo that this class manipulates. ' 'The term function of every class cleans up all pointers to objects stored in our class ' Function Term() Set mcbo = Nothing 'Set the pointer to the control to nothing End Function And finally the Enter event of the combo control changes the back color, storing the original backcolor. ' 'These are the event stubs for the control's OnEnter and OnExit events ' Private Sub mcbo_Enter() mlngBackColorOrig = mcbo.BackColor 'When we enter the text box, save the original back color mcbo.BackColor = mclngBackColor 'Set the back color to our favorite color End Sub And the OnExit changes the combo?s backcolor back to the original color. Private Sub mcbo_Exit(Cancel As Integer) mcbo.BackColor = mlngBackColorOrig 'When we exit the control, set the back color back to the original color End Sub All of this looks almost identical to the text box class. dclsFrm Changes The only change we have to make to dclsFrm is to add a new class to our case statement in the control scanner to recognize and instantiate classes for combos. Private Sub FindControls() On Error GoTo Err_FindControls Dim ctl As Control Dim intIndex As Integer Dim col As Collection Set col = New Collection For Each ctl In mfrm.Controls 'Find each control in the form's control collection With ctl Select Case .ControlType 'Determine it's type Case acTextBox 'Find all text boxes and load class to change backcolor mcolClasses.Add New dclsCtlTextBox, .Name mcolClasses(.Name).Init ctl Case acSubform Case acTabCtl 'tab pages are handled in the tab control Case acOptionGroup Case acCheckBox Case acOptionButton Case acCommandButton Case acToggleButton Case acListBox Case acComboBox mcolClasses.Add New dclsCtlCbo, .Name mcolClasses(.Name).Init ctl Case Else End Select End With NextCtl: Next ctl Exit_FindControls: On Error Resume Next Set ctl = Nothing Exit Sub Notice the case acComboBox we added in the new dclsCtlCbo. One thing to notice about this syntax is that I add the class into the collection: mcolClasses.Add New dclsCtlCbo, .Name Notice that I use the new keyword right in the Add method of the collection to return a pointer to the object ? the dclsCbo in this instance. Then notice that I use the control?s name as the key into the collection. This enables me to look up the class for any control (assuming it has one in there) just by indexing into the collection with the control?s name. The next thing to notice is that if an object is stored in a collection, the methods and properties of the object in the collection can be referenced directly in the collection, i.e. you don?t need to bring the object back out of the collection and put it in a variable to get at the object. mcolClasses(.Name).Init ctl Here I initialized the class for the object that was stored in mcolClasses(.name) where .name is the control?s name, .init is the init method of the class in the collection, and ctl is the control being passed in to the init method of the class in the collection. This may seem obtuse but it saves us a lot of dimensioning variables, setting the variable to the class and using the variable to get at the class. So we have built a new class to handle any generic combo functionality we may desire, and we have added it into dclsFrm with two lines of new code. I will be adding classes for lists, check boxes, radio buttons etc but for now combos and text boxes are enough to display the power of the system without making us wade through classes that we won?t be using (yet). To see the new dclsCbo function, simply open frmPeopleV2 and tab through the controls. The combos are now changing background color as they get and lose the focus in the same manner that the text boxes do. I will be adding a new, more useful functionality to the combo class in the next article. dclsTimer ? A timer class The timer class neatly demonstrates the reusability and encapsulation advantages of classes. The actual code that does the timing was lifted from (I believe) ADH, but it was a single instance thing, i.e. it only had a couple of functions and a variable to store the timing stuff. Thus it could only time one thing at a time. By turning it into a class, we encapsulate the code, the documentation of how it works, and the variable(s) that make it all work. It also demonstrates that a class doesn?t have to be complex to do something useful for us. In order to use this I will time how long the form is open, and also how long it takes to do the control scanner stuff. Option Compare Database Option Explicit In the timer class header I declare a function that calls the windows API getting a long integer representing timer ticks ? measured in milliseconds. I also dimension a long integer variable to hold the start time counter tick Private Declare Function apiGetTime Lib "winmm.dll" _ Alias "timeGetTime" () As Long Private lngStartTime As Long There are only two methods of the class, StartTimer which stores the start time (tick count) and EndTimer which returns the difference between the start tick count and the end tick count. 'THESE FUNCTIONS / SUBS ARE USED TO IMPLEMENT CLASS FUNCTIONALITY '*+Class function / sub declaration Sub StartTimer() lngStartTime = apiGetTime() End Sub Function EndTimer() EndTimer = apiGetTime() - lngStartTime End Function '*-Class function / sub declaration Just remember that the results are in milliseconds (thousandths of a second). And finally, I will add this in to dclsFrm to allow us to time a couple of things. First I declare a timer variable in the dclsFrm header to hold a timer that can be referenced from anywhere in the class. Option Compare Database Option Explicit Private mclsTimer As clsTimer In the Initialize method of the class I instantiate the class, then start the timer. Private Sub Class_Initialize() Set mclsTimer = New clsTimer 'Instantiate a timer to time how long the form was open mclsTimer.StartTimer 'Start the timer running End Sub In the term() method I debug.print the timer value. This displays how long the form was opened in milliseconds. Function Term() 'Print the time the form was open Debug.Print mfrm.Name & " was open for " & mclsTimer.EndTimer & " milliseconds" Set mclsTimer = Nothing 'Then destroy the timer classEnd Function Now we are going to use another timer instance to time the control scanner. To do this we dimension a timer class local to the scanner function. Private Sub FindControls() On Error GoTo Err_FindControls Dim ctl As Control Dim intIndex As Integer Dim lclsTimer As clsTimer Set lclsTimer = New clsTimer lclsTimer.StartTimer For Each ctl In mfrm.Controls 'Find each control in the form's control collection With ctl And in the function?s Exit I debug print the time and destroy the timer class. Exit_FindControls: On Error Resume Next Set ctl = Nothing Debug.Print mfrm.Name & "'s control scanner took " & lclsTimer.EndTimer & " milliseconds to run" Set lclsTimer = Nothing Exit Sub Note: I ran the form on my 2.5 ghz AMD development machine and the scanner class took 1 millisecond to complete. In that time the scanner loaded classes for nine controls. From my debug window: frmPeopleV2's control scanner took 1 milliseconds to run This timer will be useful to us as we build more and more functionality into the various control classes. We want to just monitor how long it takes our form to load all of its classes so that if that time jumps to an unreasonable amount of time we are aware of it and can investigate why. Summary In this article we have added a new control class to handle future combo box functionality, as well as a timer class. These classes demonstrate once again exactly how easy it is to set up a class and use it. dclsFrm was modified to allow instantiating dclsCbo for every combo that the control scanner found. We also set up two timer classes in various places, one global to the form to time the amount of time the form was open, and another local to the control scanner to time how long it takes to load all of the control classes. We now have four classes working together to create a system that allows a form to find and load a class for all of its controls, the controls can perform functionality automatically, and timers can tell us how long various actions take to complete. John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com From andrew.haslett at ilc.gov.au Mon Mar 8 23:32:09 2004 From: andrew.haslett at ilc.gov.au (Haslett, Andrew) Date: Tue, 9 Mar 2004 16:02:09 +1030 Subject: [AccessD] Framework Discussion - Who's following this Message-ID: 1) d 2) b 3) b If I were doing more Access work I would follow it more closely. While I do love encapsulating common functionality to provide a 'cleaner' application as you do, not sure of the rewards gained from the work put into designing such a framework. If its saves you troubleshooting / debugging / designing / maintainability time in the end, then great - go for it...But would offer the same advantages to many others? How technically 'savvy' would they need to be? What sort of documentation effort would you need to put in to reach this level? My gut feeling is that Access *is* pretty much the framework, and presents perhaps too many restrictions to providing a purely extensible framework. If such a framework *is* desired, then although Access offers many advantages in terms of user/organisation accessibility, brilliant form and report designer etc, then I think it has to be considered that Access -may- not be the tool for the job.. Could the time be better spent learning new technologies that better embrace your programming style? A big gamble obviously, as it may rule-out the Access platform (at least for a while), but what does the future offer? Just a thought.. Cheers, Andrew -----Original Message----- From: John W. Colby [mailto:jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com] Sent: Tuesday, 9 March 2004 5:14 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: [AccessD] Framework Discussion - Who's following this My objective with this discussion is to explain the concepts and implementation of frameworks in sufficient detail that anyone willing to learn can pick up at least a few new ideas, understand classes and how they can solve problems, understand withevents and how using them allows us to encapsulate entire subsystems into an object, and understand Frameworks and how and why they might be useful. I know that this is a rather large objective, and that some of these subjects seem rather deep. I am attempting to keep the details clean and uncluttered in the beginning so that you can not get bogged down in stuff not relevant to the specific subject of the specific post. In order to accomplish this objective I need to get a feeling for who is following this discussion and at what level. Would everyone interested in this thread please answer the following questions: 1) Interest Level a) I already pretty much do what you are discussing, just wanted to see how you do it. b) I am extremely interested in this concept and subject, would probably use it if I can figure it out. c) I am interested and might start using some of this stuff. d) Moderately interested, probably too much work for what I see getting out of it e) Marginally interested, probably never use any of it. 2) Understanding a) I understand completely what is going on b) I mostly follow what is happening but have a couple of things I don't really understand c) I am trying my best but can't really follow a lot of it d) Hopelessly lost, want to understand but need you to slow down a bit. 3) Participation a) I am scanning the posts lightly to just get the basics b) I am reading it and attempting to follow the examples. c) I am reading the posts and working through the included code, and have downloaded the example database d) I am reading and have downloaded the database, and have worked through the examples in the database to see how this stuff works. I truly appreciate your participation. Thanks, John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com IMPORTANT - PLEASE READ ******************** This email and any files transmitted with it are confidential and may contain information protected by law from disclosure. If you have received this message in error, please notify the sender immediately and delete this email from your system. No warranty is given that this email or files, if attached to this email, are free from computer viruses or other defects. They are provided on the basis the user assumes all responsibility for loss, damage or consequence resulting directly or indirectly from their use, whether caused by the negligence of the sender or not. From andrew.haslett at ilc.gov.au Mon Mar 8 23:33:13 2004 From: andrew.haslett at ilc.gov.au (Haslett, Andrew) Date: Tue, 9 Mar 2004 16:03:13 +1030 Subject: [AccessD] Framework - Naming conventions Message-ID: I think they've still got it on the MS site for download somewhere too. -----Original Message----- From: John W. Colby [mailto:jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com] Sent: Tuesday, 9 March 2004 9:42 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] Framework - Naming conventions OK, I found on my hard disk an old style help file of Leszynski Naming Conventions. I zipped it up and placed it on my site, and may I not be sued for copyright infringement. It's under "Useful files" the top item. John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Charlotte Foust Sent: Monday, March 08, 2004 5:48 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] Framework - Naming conventions John, I also started using LR when they first published their joint naming conventions. I've stuck with Leszynski's because I prefer his 3 character tag to the sometimes longer tags Reddick uses. You can find Stan's naming conventions in the book Access 97 Expert Solutions, or here: http://c85.cemi.rssi.ru/access/Books/A97ExSol/contents.htm Charlotte Foust -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com IMPORTANT - PLEASE READ ******************** This email and any files transmitted with it are confidential and may contain information protected by law from disclosure. If you have received this message in error, please notify the sender immediately and delete this email from your system. No warranty is given that this email or files, if attached to this email, are free from computer viruses or other defects. They are provided on the basis the user assumes all responsibility for loss, damage or consequence resulting directly or indirectly from their use, whether caused by the negligence of the sender or not. From accessd at shaw.ca Mon Mar 8 23:50:05 2004 From: accessd at shaw.ca (Jim Lawrence (AccessD)) Date: Mon, 08 Mar 2004 21:50:05 -0800 Subject: [AccessD] Your favorite control behavior In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Well, to start, are you using ADO-ODBC or ADO-OLE? There is dramatic performance differences between these two connection methods and there are some significant differences in each interface. Jim -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of John W. Colby Sent: Monday, March 08, 2004 4:45 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] Your favorite control behavior You are correct however I can't efficiently do that since I don't understand the "working with" SQL Server enough to get anywhere. I have a client who is moving one of my apps to SQL Server. It would be nice to be able to get the framework "SQL Server compliant" whatever that may mean. Unfortunately they are using A2K and will continue to do so for quite some time I'm afraid. And I squeeze every bit of "interface" out of Access using things like queries that reference controls on forms, queries that reference my own custom VB (or for that matter Built-in) functions. Both of these are no-nos when working with SQL Server. So it is very much a combination of making the framework itself "data store independent" as well as MY learning how to replace what I do with what will work with SQL Server (or rather non-jet) data stores. For BOTH, I could use an expert in squeezing the last ounce of "interface" out of non-Jet data stores. John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Haslett, Andrew Sent: Monday, March 08, 2004 1:56 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: [AccessD] Your favorite control behavior >>I'd LOVE to work with an extremely competent SQL Server developer / programmer in >> doing this though since I am going to need this functionality but don't know SQL Server that well I don't think its SS as much as interfacing with the (OLEDB) driver used to communicate between Access and SQL. That's where your equivalent recordset behaviours come in. Unless youre talking about wrapping your functionality in Stored Procs using a disconnected framework... -----Original Message----- From: John W. Colby [mailto:jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com] Sent: Monday, 8 March 2004 4:26 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] Your favorite control behavior The answer to ADO is yes... with the exception of the form RecordsetClone property which is by definition DAO. I use ADO exclusively in my current framework except for the recordsetclone stuff. I use recordsetclone to get a handle to the current recordset, as well as the current position of the form (what record is displaying) and use that to "move" the form to display a different record etc. As for unbound, hmmm... it probably could. I use a lot of tricks in my framework such as looking at the field that the control is bound to discover the field name, and now that I know how to do so (using DAO) drilling clear down to the table name and field name. So the answer to that is probably, but you might lose a lot of neat functionality. I'd LOVE to work with an extremely competent SQL Server developer / programmer in doing this though since I am going to need this functionality but don't know SQL Server that well. John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Jim Lawrence (AccessD) Sent: Monday, March 08, 2004 12:09 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] Your favorite control behavior Hi John: I have always liked your framework structure concept. I have not been too interested in pursuing that application deployment as, and do not take this the wrong way, most of my work is with SQL server BEs and, correct me if I am wrong, but at first blush, your framework is designed to manage 'bound' DAO programs. My apps may or may not bind the recordsets and these recordset are used to populate the forms...one step removed. Also, I use ADO almost exclusively. Does your framework handle or can be made to handle ADO and Unbound forms? (but bound (qualified) recordsets) Jim -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of John W. Colby Sent: Sunday, March 07, 2004 6:54 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] Your favorite control behavior Andrew, Yes, I am (slowly) learning .net. It's OO stuff is enough to make me drool. Unfortunately it's database stuff is weak and I am a database developer. Stick around (if you are an Access developer) for the framework discussion. Access' inheritance is non-existant so we use workarounds. If I could just inherit the form class and add my stuff I probably would do that but I can't. And of course controls don't have a class at all. Look in .net and a control is just a class that you can inherit like any other class. NICE!!! Lacking that in Access, classes out in a lib is a poor man's substitute and is what I am up to. John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Haslett, Andrew Sent: Sunday, March 07, 2004 9:41 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: [AccessD] Your favorite control behavior I always thought it was "I couldn't care less". Anyway, very interesting discussion. John, not sure if you've looked into yet, but the .Net languages (and many other OO languages I presume) will provide you with a lot of support for what you are trying to implement with your framework. Inherting your pages / controls from a base class will be ideal to 'inherit' common functionality that it seems you are doing. Custom controls (reusable) alse offer the capabilities you are creating with your framework. I haven't looked in detail at your framework or anything - just been browsing these discussions, but was interested to know if you've looked into .Net yet.., as I think you would find it quite interesting. Cheers, A -----Original Message----- From: John W. Colby [mailto:jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com] Sent: Monday, 8 March 2004 12:19 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] Your favorite control behavior >Correct me if I'm mistaken, but my understanding is that a form has >it's own class which you can multi instance in various ways and in which you can create property procedures and do any thing else one can do in a class of your own. It sounds not like you are creating a form class but a separate class to shadow the form class. Yep, you are correct. >The downside is needing to know the name of a control in order to be >able to operate with it. To program certain functionality (such as passing in the table / field / form to a combo for NotInList) that is correct. >The advantage of hooking up all default behaviors with a function is >that you can pass the procedure a reference to the actual control for which the event is triggered so there is no need for collections or code to run on the form open event. I see no advantage there. My form class scans all of my controls and loads a class for each control. That class hooks up all the functionality for them. I don't have to "make sure" I have cut the control from the right place so that stuff is in the event properties. >Every copy/paste of a control is automatically hooked up to the >standard events without ever writing any code except the single function procedures that all copies of the control trigger. So you have replaced writing a few lines of code in the Form's Open (standard, can be cut and pasted) with dozens of cuts and pastes of controls onto the form? Hmmm..... I can definitely see how this might be better.... >You can override the 'inherited' behavior by changing the function, >writing a specific event procedure or passing in one or more additional optional parameters. Of course you can. So can I using my framework and control classes. >Correct me again if I'm mistaken, but this facility to hook up events >has been around since Access 1 whereas WithEvents is somewhat newer and more esoteric and less universally understood or used. That's like saying "The car has been around a lot less time than the horse so why are we using a car". Sure, Withevents were not around when Access 1.0 came out, and of course this is not applicable to 1.0. More powerful tools are handed to us year after year. To say I am not going to use it because it wasn't available in 1.0 is silly and prevents adapting some very powerful tools. Jurgen, I could care less whether you want to use this stuff. I could care less whether you love hooking functions straight up to the event property. That is an option, and if that is the tool you choose to use, that is your business. I have explained to you why I don't touch that stuff, and why, when I have to take over an app where the previous developer uses that method it pains me greatly. I used to use it, don't get me wrong, it's just that there are tons of disadvantages and only one advantage, your "cut and paste" advantage. That "cut and paste" advantage isn't sufficient in my mind to overcome the disadvantages. In fact that advantage has been neatly replaced by Withevents in classes! You have a SINGLE function that you hook to a property, and you have a bunch of functions that you hook to a bunch of properties. I have a class that I pass a control to. I sink the events in that class, then call various functions of the class from those events. The results are similar, but not identical. I can for instance, turn on/off the behaviors using sysvars. My good friend William Hindman was using some stuff of mine and didn't like some specific things I was doing. I simply "switched it off" for him. Nothing more than "go in the sysvar table and set this sysvar = false. His system didn't use that behavior anymore. Try THAT with your method. A framework is waaaay more than just a function hooked to an event, or even a bunch of functions hooked to a bunch of events. It is a whole system that works together. My control classes talk to the form class. The form class loads SysVars that turn on and off functionality of the framework. I can override a given functionality for the entire application, or just for a given form in the application. The control classes "talk to" the form class and ask whether they should exhibit this behavior? The control class simply doesn't care whether the behavior is turned on / off for the entire application or just this form, all they care about is that they are supposed to exhibit the behavior THIS TIME, RIGHT NOW. Tomorrow the user might want the behavior and I go turn it on using a SysVar. TRY THAT with your "cut and paste" stuff!!! >Like Arthur, it looks to me like you write a great deal more code than >the one line each of us uses to hook a control to a common not in list procedure because you need to write and maintain the framework. You are 100% correct. I do write a whole lot more code than you do. In fact I write almost EXACTLY the same code you do, I just make it a part of a whole system rather than an isolated thing that happens. The "way more code" is the stuff required to tie it in and make it a system. When I design a form I don't "cut and paste" a bunch of controls so that they get hooked up properly. My form class loads control classes that hook everything up for me automatically. Whether I have one or a hundred combos on a form, every one can, if it needs it, have any of the various behaviors that the combo class provides. Why in the world would I go somewhere, "cut a control" and paste it in the form a hundred times? Furthermore I can take ANY form, load a form class in that form's Open and have all of my stuff just automatically applied to all of the controls on that form! All the combos suddenly know how to do combo stuff, all the text boxes suddenly know how to do text box stuff. If a given combo needs NotInList (and MANY don't), then a single line of code passes in the correct table / field / form for that combo to know how to do it. Try THAT with your "cut and paste" stuff! I seem to remember butting heads with you in the past. You were always about "the last ounce of (application) speed", and I simply don't care about that last ounce. I am more about speed of development and ease of maintenance. Your "cut and paste" does allow lightweight forms. I could care less. If that is what this is all about, I will hand you your "speed advantage" and you can walk away the winner. I will take my speed of development and ease of maintenance and I too will walk away a winner. I understand what you are doing, I have done it that way in the distant past. Listen to what I am trying to explain where frameworks are concerned, read it, UNDERSTAND it (ALL OF IT), and then if you still love your "cut and paste" stuff... "may the force be with you". And may I never have to maintain your apps! John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of J?rgen Welz Sent: Sunday, March 07, 2004 6:01 PM To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: RE: [AccessD] Your favorite control behavior Correct me if I'm mistaken, but my understanding is that a form has it's own class which you can multi instance in various ways and in which you can create property procedures and do any thing else one can do in a class of your own. It sounds not like you are creating a form class but a separate class to shadow the form class. The downside is needing to know the name of a control in order to be able to operate with it. The advantage of hooking up all default behaviors with a function is that you can pass the procedure a reference to the actual control for which the event is triggered so there is no need for collections or code to run on the form open event. Every copy/paste of a control is automatically hooked up to the standard events without ever writing any code except the single function procedures that all copies of the control trigger. You can override the 'inherited' behaviour by changing the function, writing a specific event procedure or passing in one or more additional optional parameters. Correct me again if I'm mistaken, but this facility to hook up events has been around since Access 1 whereas WithEvents is somewhat newer and more esoteric and less universally understood or used. I suspect that developers coming from a Visual Basic background are less familiar with the advantages of this approach, particularly when they bemoan the lack of control arrays. I suspect this facility is the reason that control arrays were never needed in Access. Like Arthur, it looks to me like you write a great deal more code than the one line each of us uses to hook a contol to a common not in list procedure because you need to write and maintain the framework. Ciao J?rgen Welz Edmonton, Alberta jwelz at hotmail.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com IMPORTANT - PLEASE READ ******************** This email and any files transmitted with it are confidential and may contain information protected by law from disclosure. If you have received this message in error, please notify the sender immediately and delete this email from your system. No warranty is given that this email or files, if attached to this email, are free from computer viruses or other defects. They are provided on the basis the user assumes all responsibility for loss, damage or consequence resulting directly or indirectly from their use, whether caused by the negligence of the sender or not. -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From AGotzner at t-online.de Tue Mar 9 02:03:32 2004 From: AGotzner at t-online.de (Alexander Gotzner) Date: Tue, 9 Mar 2004 09:03:32 +0100 Subject: AW: [AccessD] Framework Discussion - Who's following this In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <001001c405ad$072ac0e0$2100a8c0@alexlap> 1b, 2b, 3c Alexander Gotzner > -----Urspr?ngliche Nachricht----- > Von: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] Im Auftrag von > John W. Colby > Gesendet: Montag, 8. M?rz 2004 19:44 > An: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Betreff: [AccessD] Framework Discussion - Who's following this > > > My objective with this discussion is to explain the concepts > and implementation of frameworks in sufficient detail that > anyone willing to learn can pick up at least a few new ideas, > understand classes and how they can solve problems, > understand withevents and how using them allows us to > encapsulate entire subsystems into an object, and understand > Frameworks and how and why they might be useful. I know that > this is a rather large objective, and that some of these > subjects seem rather deep. I am attempting to keep the > details clean and uncluttered in the beginning so that you > can not get bogged down in stuff not relevant to the specific > subject of the specific post. > > In order to accomplish this objective I need to get a feeling > for who is following this discussion and at what level. > Would everyone interested in this thread please answer the > following questions: > > 1) Interest Level > a) I already pretty much do what you are discussing, > just wanted to see how you do it. > b) I am extremely interested in this concept and > subject, would probably use it if I can figure it out. > c) I am interested and might start using some of this stuff. > d) Moderately interested, probably too much work for > what I see getting out of it > e) Marginally interested, probably never use any of it. > > 2) Understanding > a) I understand completely what is going on > b) I mostly follow what is happening but have a couple > of things I don't really understand > c) I am trying my best but can't really follow a lot of it > d) Hopelessly lost, want to understand but need you to > slow down a bit. > > 3) Participation > a) I am scanning the posts lightly to just get the basics > b) I am reading it and attempting to follow the examples. > c) I am reading the posts and working through the > included code, and have downloaded the example database > d) I am reading and have downloaded the database, and > have worked through the examples in the database to see how > this stuff works. > > I truly appreciate your participation. > > Thanks, > > John W. Colby > www.ColbyConsulting.com > > > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/a> ccessd > Website: > http://www.databaseadvisors.com > From mwp.reid at qub.ac.uk Tue Mar 9 03:11:41 2004 From: mwp.reid at qub.ac.uk (Martin Reid) Date: Tue, 9 Mar 2004 09:11:41 -0000 Subject: [AccessD] OT MSDE References: Message-ID: <000d01c405b6$89514d10$9111758f@aine> For the life of me I cant remember this I have a large create db script from SQL Server. I need to run it using Osql command line tools to recreate the database on and instance of MSDE. I cant remember the command to load and execute the script. To used to graphical tools these days. Anyone know Martin From Philippe.Pons19 at wanadoo.fr Tue Mar 9 03:39:34 2004 From: Philippe.Pons19 at wanadoo.fr (Philippe Pons) Date: Tue, 9 Mar 2004 10:39:34 +0100 Subject: [AccessD] OT MSDE References: <000d01c405b6$89514d10$9111758f@aine> Message-ID: <001701c405ba$6ef06240$d61a7053@linceow2000pro> Martin, try this: osql -S -d -i -E -E for Integrated Security HTH, Philippe. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Martin Reid" To: "Access Developers discussion and problem solving" Sent: Tuesday, March 09, 2004 10:11 AM Subject: [AccessD] OT MSDE > For the life of me I cant remember this > > I have a large create db script from SQL Server. I need to run it using Osql > command line tools to recreate the database on and instance of MSDE. I cant > remember the command to load and execute the script. To used to graphical > tools these days. > > Anyone know > > > Martin > > > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From gustav at cactus.dk Tue Mar 9 03:18:28 2004 From: gustav at cactus.dk (Gustav Brock) Date: Tue, 9 Mar 2004 10:18:28 +0100 Subject: [AccessD] How to Deal with Time Durations In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <1574739044.20040309101828@cactus.dk> Hi Bryan > What I finally decided to do was store the Start Date and Start Time as > two different fields. > Then Store the End Date and end time as two more fields. > On the view form I calculate the duration using some code from the > VBADH. > On the data entry form, I allow the user to enter either the end > date/time OR the duration. Which ever one the enter, I use the ato > calculate the other one. > I try and avoid converting dates into strings or number if at all > possible. First, you should always convert any input from a textbox to a date/time value with CDate() before using it in your code. If you have formatted the texbox to date/time, Access will have validated the input; if not, use IsDate() to validate before using CDate(). Then, the only situation where you will need a string representation of a date/time is when writing code for SQL or filters where you always will have to format to US format - this has been dealt with several times here. > Since I live in Canada my users can, and do enter, dates in US > format(mm/dd/yyyy) UK Format (dd/mm/yyyy) AND ISO format(yyyy-mm-dd). I > try and let Access/VBA deal with the conversions from those formats to > the formats it wants to use internally. As you, in this case, cannot use a fixed format for the texboxes, this format will be that of the user's settings for date/time in Windows. > And to make sure the date gets converted properly I ALWAYS, ALWAYS, > ALWAYS format my dates to show letters for the month. That way if it > converts 01/02/03 into something the user didn't mean, they can fix > it right away. Another possibility would be to let the user select a date/time format if he/she wants another than the settings from Windows and store the selection as a property of the user. This requires, of course, that the users do login to your app. /gustav From gustav at cactus.dk Tue Mar 9 03:31:48 2004 From: gustav at cactus.dk (Gustav Brock) Date: Tue, 9 Mar 2004 10:31:48 +0100 Subject: [AccessD] Accounting: digits only for account numbers? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <935539595.20040309103148@cactus.dk> Hi Charlotte Thanks Charlotte. Neither have I seen it, but many systems have strings for account numbers which would allow literals. /gustav > Yes, I understand that. I've just never seen that particular kind of > account numbering. If you use a surrogate primary key, it shouldn't > make any difference what literals they use, although you may need a > sortkey field to get them in the appropriate order in your chart of > accounts. > Charlotte Foust > -----Original Message----- > From: Gustav Brock [mailto:gustav at cactus.dk] > Sent: Monday, March 08, 2004 10:13 AM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: Re: [AccessD] Accounting: digits only for account numbers? > Hi Charlotte > Thanks, no it wouldn't be a "new thing". > I should stress that I'm not talking about primary keys but, of course, > of unique numbers with or without literals. > /gustav >> I've never seen it, but then I've been out of active accounting for >> years and it may be something new. If I'm designing a system, they >> can use anything they want because I'm not going to use that as the >> primary key anyhow. >> Charlotte Foust >> -----Original Message----- >> From: Gustav Brock [mailto:gustav at cactus.dk] >> Sent: Monday, March 08, 2004 9:24 AM >> To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving >> Subject: [AccessD] Accounting: digits only for account numbers? >> Hi all >> Some of you, I know, are quite experienced in accounting and/or >> accounting systems. >> Have any you encountered setups (for serious use) where literals were >> not only allowed - they are quite often - but actually used in > building >> the chart of accounts for the general ledger? >> I'm not thinking of setups where simple formatting of numbers could do >> it, like: >> U0900-34.00 >> U7301-22.01 >> U8398-12.00 >> but something like this: >> KH43TBB >> KL43TBS >> M3799JH >> Also, I'm not thinking of old legacy systems nor customer or part >> numbers as you can meet everything possible here. >> Slightly OT, I know, but where else to ask? >> /gustav > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From gustav at cactus.dk Tue Mar 9 03:39:03 2004 From: gustav at cactus.dk (Gustav Brock) Date: Tue, 9 Mar 2004 10:39:03 +0100 Subject: [AccessD] Framework Discussion - Who's following this In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <1745974560.20040309103903@cactus.dk> Hi John 1 e 2 a 3 b Nice work, John, I wonder where you find the time for this ... /gustav From gustav at cactus.dk Tue Mar 9 03:52:58 2004 From: gustav at cactus.dk (Gustav Brock) Date: Tue, 9 Mar 2004 10:52:58 +0100 Subject: [AccessD] OT MSDE In-Reply-To: <000d01c405b6$89514d10$9111758f@aine> References: <000d01c405b6$89514d10$9111758f@aine> Message-ID: <346809531.20040309105258@cactus.dk> Hi Martin > For the life of me I cant remember this > I have a large create db script from SQL Server. I need to run it using Osql > command line tools to recreate the database on and instance of MSDE. I cant > remember the command to load and execute the script. To used to graphical > tools these days. And a little lazy too?? Have a look here: http://support.microsoft.com/default.aspx?scid=kb;EN-US;q325003#5 My colleague has the same task scheduled this afternoon and located it as a link in the first hit at Google searching on: recreate msde instance /gustav From mwp.reid at queens-belfast.ac.uk Tue Mar 9 04:23:55 2004 From: mwp.reid at queens-belfast.ac.uk (Martin Reid) Date: Tue, 09 Mar 2004 10:23:55 -0000 Subject: [AccessD] OT MSDE In-Reply-To: <346809531.20040309105258@cactus.dk> Message-ID: LOL Yeah I know. Was just as quick to post the message. Got it now. Was in a rush this morning as I have to do this and take a Web Development class at the same time. Thanks Martin On Tue, 9 Mar 2004 10:52:58 +0100 Gustav Brock wrote: > Hi Martin > > > For the life of me I cant remember this > > > I have a large create db script from SQL Server. I need to run it using Osql > > command line tools to recreate the database on and instance of MSDE. I cant > > remember the command to load and execute the script. To used to graphical > > tools these days. > > And a little lazy too?? Have a look here: > > http://support.microsoft.com/default.aspx?scid=kb;EN-US;q325003#5 > > My colleague has the same task scheduled this afternoon and located it > as a link in the first hit at Google searching on: > > recreate msde instance > > /gustav > > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com Martin WP Reid Information Services Queens University Belfast Tel: (02890) 273750 ---------------------- From jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com Tue Mar 9 05:36:25 2004 From: jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com (John W. Colby) Date: Tue, 9 Mar 2004 06:36:25 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Framework Discussion - Questions and answers In-Reply-To: <1745974560.20040309103903@cactus.dk> Message-ID: If anyone has any questions please feel free to post them. I will answer to the best of my abilities. John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com From Erwin.Craps at ithelps.be Tue Mar 9 05:53:41 2004 From: Erwin.Craps at ithelps.be (Erwin Craps - IT Helps) Date: Tue, 9 Mar 2004 12:53:41 +0100 Subject: [AccessD] Framework Discussion - Questions and answers Message-ID: <46B976F2B698FF46A4FE7636509B22DF0AD5C3@stekelbes.ithelps.local> John I have a question. How do I get very rich in a short time and honest way? :-) Erwin -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of John W. Colby Sent: Tuesday, March 09, 2004 12:36 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: [AccessD] Framework Discussion - Questions and answers If anyone has any questions please feel free to post them. I will answer to the best of my abilities. John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com Tue Mar 9 06:22:39 2004 From: jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com (John W. Colby) Date: Tue, 9 Mar 2004 07:22:39 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Framework Discussion - Questions and answers In-Reply-To: <46B976F2B698FF46A4FE7636509B22DF0AD5C3@stekelbes.ithelps.local> Message-ID: Invent a better moustrap and hire the world's best marketing team. John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Erwin Craps - IT Helps Sent: Tuesday, March 09, 2004 6:54 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] Framework Discussion - Questions and answers John I have a question. How do I get very rich in a short time and honest way? :-) Erwin -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of John W. Colby Sent: Tuesday, March 09, 2004 12:36 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: [AccessD] Framework Discussion - Questions and answers If anyone has any questions please feel free to post them. I will answer to the best of my abilities. John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com Tue Mar 9 06:36:13 2004 From: jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com (John W. Colby) Date: Tue, 9 Mar 2004 07:36:13 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Framework Discussion - Questions and answers In-Reply-To: Message-ID: I guess I should have specified "questions about frameworks, classes, or in general what I am doing here". John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of John W. Colby Sent: Tuesday, March 09, 2004 6:36 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: [AccessD] Framework Discussion - Questions and answers If anyone has any questions please feel free to post them. I will answer to the best of my abilities. John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From rl_stewart at highstream.net Tue Mar 9 07:24:16 2004 From: rl_stewart at highstream.net (Robert L. Stewart) Date: Tue, 09 Mar 2004 07:24:16 -0600 Subject: [AccessD] Re: Framework Discussion - Who's following this In-Reply-To: <200403082311.i28NB2M23394@databaseadvisors.com> Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20040309072155.03ea88e8@pop3.highstream.net> John, 1. B 2. B-C 3. B I did not read where the sample DB was but I would like to download it and go to D on #3. I have a non-object based framework that I have been using for the last 3 years and it would be nice to make it more object oriented. Robert At 05:11 PM 3/8/2004 -0600, you wrote: >Date: Mon, 8 Mar 2004 13:43:55 -0500 >From: "John W. Colby" >Subject: [AccessD] Framework Discussion - Who's following this >To: "Access Developers discussion and problem solving" > From rl_stewart at highstream.net Tue Mar 9 07:51:02 2004 From: rl_stewart at highstream.net (Robert L. Stewart) Date: Tue, 09 Mar 2004 07:51:02 -0600 Subject: [AccessD] Naming conventions In-Reply-To: <200403082311.i28NB2M23394@databaseadvisors.com> Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20040309074927.02a38948@pop3.highstream.net> I could not find a place to upload what I found on Naming Conventions, now a 64 page word document, but who ever wants a copy, let me know and I will send a zipped copy to them. Robert From serbach at new.rr.com Tue Mar 9 09:35:03 2004 From: serbach at new.rr.com (Steven W. Erbach) Date: Tue, 9 Mar 2004 09:35:03 -0600 Subject: [AccessD] Framework Discussion - Who's following this Message-ID: <20040309093503.831969659.serbach@new.rr.com> 1) b) 2) b) 3) c) Regards, Steve Erbach Scientific Marketing Neenah, WI 920-969-0504 Security and Virus information: http://www.swerbach.com/security/virusinfo.htm From tinanfields at torchlake.com Tue Mar 9 09:49:06 2004 From: tinanfields at torchlake.com (Tina Norris Fields) Date: Tue, 09 Mar 2004 10:49:06 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Framework Discussion - Who's following this References: Message-ID: <404DE772.8050109@torchlake.com> 1) - b 2) - b or c, depending on my current level of stress 3) - b, with full intention of moving on to c an d Thanks, John, for being generous with your knowledge. I truly appreciate the gift. Tina John W. Colby wrote: >My objective with this discussion is to explain the concepts and >implementation of frameworks in sufficient detail that anyone willing to >learn can pick up at least a few new ideas, understand classes and how they >can solve problems, understand withevents and how using them allows us to >encapsulate entire subsystems into an object, and understand Frameworks and >how and why they might be useful. I know that this is a rather large >objective, and that some of these subjects seem rather deep. I am >attempting to keep the details clean and uncluttered in the beginning so >that you can not get bogged down in stuff not relevant to the specific >subject of the specific post. > >In order to accomplish this objective I need to get a feeling for who is >following this discussion and at what level. Would everyone interested in >this thread please answer the following questions: > >1) Interest Level > a) I already pretty much do what you are discussing, just wanted to see how >you do it. > b) I am extremely interested in this concept and subject, would probably >use it if I can figure it out. > c) I am interested and might start using some of this stuff. > d) Moderately interested, probably too much work for what I see getting out >of it > e) Marginally interested, probably never use any of it. > >2) Understanding > a) I understand completely what is going on > b) I mostly follow what is happening but have a couple of things I don't >really understand > c) I am trying my best but can't really follow a lot of it > d) Hopelessly lost, want to understand but need you to slow down a bit. > >3) Participation > a) I am scanning the posts lightly to just get the basics > b) I am reading it and attempting to follow the examples. > c) I am reading the posts and working through the included code, and have >downloaded the example database > d) I am reading and have downloaded the database, and have worked through >the examples in the database to see how this stuff works. > >I truly appreciate your participation. > >Thanks, > >John W. Colby >www.ColbyConsulting.com > > > > From j.r.porter at strath.ac.uk Tue Mar 9 10:07:49 2004 From: j.r.porter at strath.ac.uk (John R. Porter) Date: Tue, 9 Mar 2004 16:07:49 -0000 Subject: [AccessD] Framework Discussion - Who's following this In-Reply-To: <404DE772.8050109@torchlake.com> Message-ID: <000301c405f0$abc76d40$94249f82@ds.strath.ac.uk> 1) c 2) b 3) b John R. Porter I.T. Services University of Strathclyde Faculty of Education 76 Southbrae Drive Glasgow G13 1PP e-mail: j.r.porter at strath.ac.uk Tel. 0141 950 3289 -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Tina Norris Fields Sent: 09 March 2004 15:49 To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Framework Discussion - Who's following this 1) - b 2) - b or c, depending on my current level of stress 3) - b, with full intention of moving on to c an d Thanks, John, for being generous with your knowledge. I truly appreciate the gift. Tina John W. Colby wrote: >My objective with this discussion is to explain the concepts and >implementation of frameworks in sufficient detail that anyone willing to >learn can pick up at least a few new ideas, understand classes and how they >can solve problems, understand withevents and how using them allows us to >encapsulate entire subsystems into an object, and understand Frameworks and >how and why they might be useful. I know that this is a rather large >objective, and that some of these subjects seem rather deep. I am >attempting to keep the details clean and uncluttered in the beginning so >that you can not get bogged down in stuff not relevant to the specific >subject of the specific post. > >In order to accomplish this objective I need to get a feeling for who is >following this discussion and at what level. Would everyone interested in >this thread please answer the following questions: > >1) Interest Level > a) I already pretty much do what you are discussing, just wanted to see how >you do it. > b) I am extremely interested in this concept and subject, would probably >use it if I can figure it out. > c) I am interested and might start using some of this stuff. > d) Moderately interested, probably too much work for what I see getting out >of it > e) Marginally interested, probably never use any of it. > >2) Understanding > a) I understand completely what is going on > b) I mostly follow what is happening but have a couple of things I don't >really understand > c) I am trying my best but can't really follow a lot of it > d) Hopelessly lost, want to understand but need you to slow down a bit. > >3) Participation > a) I am scanning the posts lightly to just get the basics > b) I am reading it and attempting to follow the examples. > c) I am reading the posts and working through the included code, and have >downloaded the example database > d) I am reading and have downloaded the database, and have worked through >the examples in the database to see how this stuff works. > >I truly appreciate your participation. > >Thanks, > >John W. Colby >www.ColbyConsulting.com > > > > -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From HollisVJ at pgdp.usec.com Tue Mar 9 10:22:37 2004 From: HollisVJ at pgdp.usec.com (Hollis,Virginia) Date: Tue, 09 Mar 2004 10:22:37 -0600 Subject: [AccessD] Framework Discussion - Who's following this Message-ID: <618EB4D6DDCDD3119B0A00508B6FD37A0CB0D283@cntexchange.pgdp.usec.com> 1) B 2) C & D 3) Just started following. Virginia -----Original Message----- From: John R. Porter [mailto:j.r.porter at strath.ac.uk] Sent: Tuesday, March 09, 2004 10:08 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: [AccessD] Framework Discussion - Who's following this 1) c 2) b 3) b John R. Porter I.T. Services University of Strathclyde Faculty of Education 76 Southbrae Drive Glasgow G13 1PP e-mail: j.r.porter at strath.ac.uk Tel. 0141 950 3289 -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Tina Norris Fields Sent: 09 March 2004 15:49 To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Framework Discussion - Who's following this 1) - b 2) - b or c, depending on my current level of stress 3) - b, with full intention of moving on to c an d Thanks, John, for being generous with your knowledge. I truly appreciate the gift. Tina John W. Colby wrote: >My objective with this discussion is to explain the concepts and >implementation of frameworks in sufficient detail that anyone willing to >learn can pick up at least a few new ideas, understand classes and how they >can solve problems, understand withevents and how using them allows us to >encapsulate entire subsystems into an object, and understand Frameworks and >how and why they might be useful. I know that this is a rather large >objective, and that some of these subjects seem rather deep. I am >attempting to keep the details clean and uncluttered in the beginning so >that you can not get bogged down in stuff not relevant to the specific >subject of the specific post. > >In order to accomplish this objective I need to get a feeling for who is >following this discussion and at what level. Would everyone interested in >this thread please answer the following questions: > >1) Interest Level > a) I already pretty much do what you are discussing, just wanted to see how >you do it. > b) I am extremely interested in this concept and subject, would probably >use it if I can figure it out. > c) I am interested and might start using some of this stuff. > d) Moderately interested, probably too much work for what I see getting out >of it > e) Marginally interested, probably never use any of it. > >2) Understanding > a) I understand completely what is going on > b) I mostly follow what is happening but have a couple of things I don't >really understand > c) I am trying my best but can't really follow a lot of it > d) Hopelessly lost, want to understand but need you to slow down a bit. > >3) Participation > a) I am scanning the posts lightly to just get the basics > b) I am reading it and attempting to follow the examples. > c) I am reading the posts and working through the included code, and have >downloaded the example database > d) I am reading and have downloaded the database, and have worked through >the examples in the database to see how this stuff works. > >I truly appreciate your participation. > >Thanks, > >John W. Colby >www.ColbyConsulting.com > > > > -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From CSPELL at jhuccp.org Tue Mar 9 10:23:57 2004 From: CSPELL at jhuccp.org (CYNTHIA SPELL) Date: Tue, 09 Mar 2004 11:23:57 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Framework Discussion - Who's following this Message-ID: 1 - b 2 - c 3 - b I'm currently working under an approaching deadline, but will definitely get back to this. Thanks for all your time and effort, John. Cindy >My objective with this discussion is to explain the concepts and >implementation of frameworks in sufficient detail that anyone willing to >learn can pick up at least a few new ideas, understand classes and how they >can solve problems, understand withevents and how using them allows us to >encapsulate entire subsystems into an object, and understand Frameworks and >how and why they might be useful. I know that this is a rather large >objective, and that some of these subjects seem rather deep. I am >attempting to keep the details clean and uncluttered in the beginning so >that you can not get bogged down in stuff not relevant to the specific >subject of the specific post. > >In order to accomplish this objective I need to get a feeling for who is >following this discussion and at what level. Would everyone interested in >this thread please answer the following questions: > >1) Interest Level > a) I already pretty much do what you are discussing, just wanted to see how >you do it. > b) I am extremely interested in this concept and subject, would probably >use it if I can figure it out. > c) I am interested and might start using some of this stuff. > d) Moderately interested, probably too much work for what I see getting out >of it > e) Marginally interested, probably never use any of it. > >2) Understanding > a) I understand completely what is going on > b) I mostly follow what is happening but have a couple of things I don't >really understand > c) I am trying my best but can't really follow a lot of it > d) Hopelessly lost, want to understand but need you to slow down a bit. > >3) Participation > a) I am scanning the posts lightly to just get the basics > b) I am reading it and attempting to follow the examples. > c) I am reading the posts and working through the included code, and have >downloaded the example database > d) I am reading and have downloaded the database, and have worked through >the examples in the database to see how this stuff works. > >I truly appreciate your participation. > >Thanks, > >John W. Colby >www.ColbyConsulting.com > > > > -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From artful at rogers.com Tue Mar 9 13:44:29 2004 From: artful at rogers.com (Arthur Fuller) Date: Tue, 9 Mar 2004 11:44:29 -0800 Subject: [AccessD] Your favorite control behavior In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <000001c4060e$f28619c0$6501a8c0@rock> I could be of some help in the move to SQL too, JC. -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of John W. Colby Sent: Monday, March 08, 2004 7:29 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] Your favorite control behavior Are you a proficient programmer? If so I'd love to work with you, just follow the Framework discussion as it unfolds. I have just about decided to rebuild my own framework for the 3rd time (making it a 3rd generation design ;-) and will be doing so via this discussion. John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Mike & Doris Manning Sent: Monday, March 08, 2004 9:01 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: [AccessD] Your favorite control behavior I'm pretty SQL savvy... I'd be interested in helping you out. Doris Manning Database Administrator Hargrove Inc. www.hargroveinc.com -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of John W. Colby Sent: Monday, March 08, 2004 7:45 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] Your favorite control behavior You are correct however I can't efficiently do that since I don't understand the "working with" SQL Server enough to get anywhere. I have a client who is moving one of my apps to SQL Server. It would be nice to be able to get the framework "SQL Server compliant" whatever that may mean. Unfortunately they are using A2K and will continue to do so for quite some time I'm afraid. And I squeeze every bit of "interface" out of Access using things like queries that reference controls on forms, queries that reference my own custom VB (or for that matter Built-in) functions. Both of these are no-nos when working with SQL Server. So it is very much a combination of making the framework itself "data store independent" as well as MY learning how to replace what I do with what will work with SQL Server (or rather non-jet) data stores. For BOTH, I could use an expert in squeezing the last ounce of "interface" out of non-Jet data stores. John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Haslett, Andrew Sent: Monday, March 08, 2004 1:56 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: [AccessD] Your favorite control behavior >>I'd LOVE to work with an extremely competent SQL Server developer / programmer in >> doing this though since I am going to need this functionality but >> don't know SQL Server that well I don't think its SS as much as interfacing with the (OLEDB) driver used to communicate between Access and SQL. That's where your equivalent recordset behaviours come in. Unless youre talking about wrapping your functionality in Stored Procs using a disconnected framework... -----Original Message----- From: John W. Colby [mailto:jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com] Sent: Monday, 8 March 2004 4:26 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] Your favorite control behavior The answer to ADO is yes... with the exception of the form RecordsetClone property which is by definition DAO. I use ADO exclusively in my current framework except for the recordsetclone stuff. I use recordsetclone to get a handle to the current recordset, as well as the current position of the form (what record is displaying) and use that to "move" the form to display a different record etc. As for unbound, hmmm... it probably could. I use a lot of tricks in my framework such as looking at the field that the control is bound to discover the field name, and now that I know how to do so (using DAO) drilling clear down to the table name and field name. So the answer to that is probably, but you might lose a lot of neat functionality. I'd LOVE to work with an extremely competent SQL Server developer / programmer in doing this though since I am going to need this functionality but don't know SQL Server that well. John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Jim Lawrence (AccessD) Sent: Monday, March 08, 2004 12:09 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] Your favorite control behavior Hi John: I have always liked your framework structure concept. I have not been too interested in pursuing that application deployment as, and do not take this the wrong way, most of my work is with SQL server BEs and, correct me if I am wrong, but at first blush, your framework is designed to manage 'bound' DAO programs. My apps may or may not bind the recordsets and these recordset are used to populate the forms...one step removed. Also, I use ADO almost exclusively. Does your framework handle or can be made to handle ADO and Unbound forms? (but bound (qualified) recordsets) Jim -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of John W. Colby Sent: Sunday, March 07, 2004 6:54 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] Your favorite control behavior Andrew, Yes, I am (slowly) learning .net. It's OO stuff is enough to make me drool. Unfortunately it's database stuff is weak and I am a database developer. Stick around (if you are an Access developer) for the framework discussion. Access' inheritance is non-existant so we use workarounds. If I could just inherit the form class and add my stuff I probably would do that but I can't. And of course controls don't have a class at all. Look in .net and a control is just a class that you can inherit like any other class. NICE!!! Lacking that in Access, classes out in a lib is a poor man's substitute and is what I am up to. John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Haslett, Andrew Sent: Sunday, March 07, 2004 9:41 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: [AccessD] Your favorite control behavior I always thought it was "I couldn't care less". Anyway, very interesting discussion. John, not sure if you've looked into yet, but the .Net languages (and many other OO languages I presume) will provide you with a lot of support for what you are trying to implement with your framework. Inherting your pages / controls from a base class will be ideal to 'inherit' common functionality that it seems you are doing. Custom controls (reusable) alse offer the capabilities you are creating with your framework. I haven't looked in detail at your framework or anything - just been browsing these discussions, but was interested to know if you've looked into .Net yet.., as I think you would find it quite interesting. Cheers, A -----Original Message----- From: John W. Colby [mailto:jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com] Sent: Monday, 8 March 2004 12:19 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] Your favorite control behavior >Correct me if I'm mistaken, but my understanding is that a form has >it's own class which you can multi instance in various ways and in which you can create property procedures and do any thing else one can do in a class of your own. It sounds not like you are creating a form class but a separate class to shadow the form class. Yep, you are correct. >The downside is needing to know the name of a control in order to be >able to operate with it. To program certain functionality (such as passing in the table / field / form to a combo for NotInList) that is correct. >The advantage of hooking up all default behaviors with a function is >that you can pass the procedure a reference to the actual control for which the event is triggered so there is no need for collections or code to run on the form open event. I see no advantage there. My form class scans all of my controls and loads a class for each control. That class hooks up all the functionality for them. I don't have to "make sure" I have cut the control from the right place so that stuff is in the event properties. >Every copy/paste of a control is automatically hooked up to the >standard events without ever writing any code except the single function procedures that all copies of the control trigger. So you have replaced writing a few lines of code in the Form's Open (standard, can be cut and pasted) with dozens of cuts and pastes of controls onto the form? Hmmm..... I can definitely see how this might be better.... >You can override the 'inherited' behavior by changing the function, >writing a specific event procedure or passing in one or more additional optional parameters. Of course you can. So can I using my framework and control classes. >Correct me again if I'm mistaken, but this facility to hook up events >has been around since Access 1 whereas WithEvents is somewhat newer and more esoteric and less universally understood or used. That's like saying "The car has been around a lot less time than the horse so why are we using a car". Sure, Withevents were not around when Access 1.0 came out, and of course this is not applicable to 1.0. More powerful tools are handed to us year after year. To say I am not going to use it because it wasn't available in 1.0 is silly and prevents adapting some very powerful tools. Jurgen, I could care less whether you want to use this stuff. I could care less whether you love hooking functions straight up to the event property. That is an option, and if that is the tool you choose to use, that is your business. I have explained to you why I don't touch that stuff, and why, when I have to take over an app where the previous developer uses that method it pains me greatly. I used to use it, don't get me wrong, it's just that there are tons of disadvantages and only one advantage, your "cut and paste" advantage. That "cut and paste" advantage isn't sufficient in my mind to overcome the disadvantages. In fact that advantage has been neatly replaced by Withevents in classes! You have a SINGLE function that you hook to a property, and you have a bunch of functions that you hook to a bunch of properties. I have a class that I pass a control to. I sink the events in that class, then call various functions of the class from those events. The results are similar, but not identical. I can for instance, turn on/off the behaviors using sysvars. My good friend William Hindman was using some stuff of mine and didn't like some specific things I was doing. I simply "switched it off" for him. Nothing more than "go in the sysvar table and set this sysvar = false. His system didn't use that behavior anymore. Try THAT with your method. A framework is waaaay more than just a function hooked to an event, or even a bunch of functions hooked to a bunch of events. It is a whole system that works together. My control classes talk to the form class. The form class loads SysVars that turn on and off functionality of the framework. I can override a given functionality for the entire application, or just for a given form in the application. The control classes "talk to" the form class and ask whether they should exhibit this behavior? The control class simply doesn't care whether the behavior is turned on / off for the entire application or just this form, all they care about is that they are supposed to exhibit the behavior THIS TIME, RIGHT NOW. Tomorrow the user might want the behavior and I go turn it on using a SysVar. TRY THAT with your "cut and paste" stuff!!! >Like Arthur, it looks to me like you write a great deal more code than >the one line each of us uses to hook a control to a common not in list procedure because you need to write and maintain the framework. You are 100% correct. I do write a whole lot more code than you do. In fact I write almost EXACTLY the same code you do, I just make it a part of a whole system rather than an isolated thing that happens. The "way more code" is the stuff required to tie it in and make it a system. When I design a form I don't "cut and paste" a bunch of controls so that they get hooked up properly. My form class loads control classes that hook everything up for me automatically. Whether I have one or a hundred combos on a form, every one can, if it needs it, have any of the various behaviors that the combo class provides. Why in the world would I go somewhere, "cut a control" and paste it in the form a hundred times? Furthermore I can take ANY form, load a form class in that form's Open and have all of my stuff just automatically applied to all of the controls on that form! All the combos suddenly know how to do combo stuff, all the text boxes suddenly know how to do text box stuff. If a given combo needs NotInList (and MANY don't), then a single line of code passes in the correct table / field / form for that combo to know how to do it. Try THAT with your "cut and paste" stuff! I seem to remember butting heads with you in the past. You were always about "the last ounce of (application) speed", and I simply don't care about that last ounce. I am more about speed of development and ease of maintenance. Your "cut and paste" does allow lightweight forms. I could care less. If that is what this is all about, I will hand you your "speed advantage" and you can walk away the winner. I will take my speed of development and ease of maintenance and I too will walk away a winner. I understand what you are doing, I have done it that way in the distant past. Listen to what I am trying to explain where frameworks are concerned, read it, UNDERSTAND it (ALL OF IT), and then if you still love your "cut and paste" stuff... "may the force be with you". And may I never have to maintain your apps! John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of J?rgen Welz Sent: Sunday, March 07, 2004 6:01 PM To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: RE: [AccessD] Your favorite control behavior Correct me if I'm mistaken, but my understanding is that a form has it's own class which you can multi instance in various ways and in which you can create property procedures and do any thing else one can do in a class of your own. It sounds not like you are creating a form class but a separate class to shadow the form class. The downside is needing to know the name of a control in order to be able to operate with it. The advantage of hooking up all default behaviors with a function is that you can pass the procedure a reference to the actual control for which the event is triggered so there is no need for collections or code to run on the form open event. Every copy/paste of a control is automatically hooked up to the standard events without ever writing any code except the single function procedures that all copies of the control trigger. You can override the 'inherited' behaviour by changing the function, writing a specific event procedure or passing in one or more additional optional parameters. Correct me again if I'm mistaken, but this facility to hook up events has been around since Access 1 whereas WithEvents is somewhat newer and more esoteric and less universally understood or used. I suspect that developers coming from a Visual Basic background are less familiar with the advantages of this approach, particularly when they bemoan the lack of control arrays. I suspect this facility is the reason that control arrays were never needed in Access. Like Arthur, it looks to me like you write a great deal more code than the one line each of us uses to hook a contol to a common not in list procedure because you need to write and maintain the framework. Ciao J?rgen Welz Edmonton, Alberta jwelz at hotmail.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com IMPORTANT - PLEASE READ ******************** This email and any files transmitted with it are confidential and may contain information protected by law from disclosure. If you have received this message in error, please notify the sender immediately and delete this email from your system. 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They are provided on the basis the user assumes all responsibility for loss, damage or consequence resulting directly or indirectly from their use, whether caused by the negligence of the sender or not. -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From artful at rogers.com Tue Mar 9 13:51:48 2004 From: artful at rogers.com (Arthur Fuller) Date: Tue, 9 Mar 2004 11:51:48 -0800 Subject: [AccessD] Framework Discussion - Questions and answers In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <000101c4060f$f5aa20a0$6501a8c0@rock> How do I get Penelope Cruz to sleep with me? -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of John W. Colby Sent: Tuesday, March 09, 2004 3:36 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: [AccessD] Framework Discussion - Questions and answers If anyone has any questions please feel free to post them. I will answer to the best of my abilities. John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com From cfoust at infostatsystems.com Tue Mar 9 12:02:47 2004 From: cfoust at infostatsystems.com (Charlotte Foust) Date: Tue, 9 Mar 2004 10:02:47 -0800 Subject: [AccessD] OT - Framework Discussion - Questions and answers Message-ID: Shouldn't that be an OT question? Besides, from press writeups, it doesn't sound like too difficult a problem. Have you tried on-line help? Charlotte Foust -----Original Message----- From: Arthur Fuller [mailto:artful at rogers.com] Sent: Tuesday, March 09, 2004 11:52 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: [AccessD] Framework Discussion - Questions and answers How do I get Penelope Cruz to sleep with me? -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of John W. Colby Sent: Tuesday, March 09, 2004 3:36 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: [AccessD] Framework Discussion - Questions and answers If anyone has any questions please feel free to post them. I will answer to the best of my abilities. John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From jmhla at earthlink.net Tue Mar 9 14:19:27 2004 From: jmhla at earthlink.net (jmhla at earthlink.net) Date: Tue, 9 Mar 2004 15:19:27 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] OT - Framework Discussion - Questions and answers Message-ID: <29950-22004329201927956@M2W044.mail2web.com> If me and Penolpe break up I will let the list know. Bigger VBG Original Message: ----------------- From: Charlotte Foust cfoust at infostatsystems.com Date: Tue, 9 Mar 2004 10:02:47 -0800 To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: RE: [AccessD] OT - Framework Discussion - Questions and answers Shouldn't that be an OT question? Besides, from press writeups, it doesn't sound like too difficult a problem. Have you tried on-line help? Charlotte Foust -----Original Message----- From: Arthur Fuller [mailto:artful at rogers.com] Sent: Tuesday, March 09, 2004 11:52 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: [AccessD] Framework Discussion - Questions and answers How do I get Penelope Cruz to sleep with me? -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of John W. Colby Sent: Tuesday, March 09, 2004 3:36 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: [AccessD] Framework Discussion - Questions and answers If anyone has any questions please feel free to post them. I will answer to the best of my abilities. John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -------------------------------------------------------------------- mail2web - Check your email from the web at http://mail2web.com/ . From Philippe.Pons19 at wanadoo.fr Tue Mar 9 14:17:52 2004 From: Philippe.Pons19 at wanadoo.fr (Philippe Pons) Date: Tue, 9 Mar 2004 21:17:52 +0100 Subject: [AccessD] Framework Discussion - Questions and answers References: <000101c4060f$f5aa20a0$6501a8c0@rock> Message-ID: <000701c40613$a12f3f70$0100a8c0@linceow2000pro> Tu lui chantes: "Voulez vous coucher avec moi, ce soir?" and the magic could occur! Philippe ----- Original Message ----- From: "Arthur Fuller" To: "'Access Developers discussion and problem solving'" Sent: Tuesday, March 09, 2004 8:51 PM Subject: RE: [AccessD] Framework Discussion - Questions and answers > How do I get Penelope Cruz to sleep with me? > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of John W. Colby > Sent: Tuesday, March 09, 2004 3:36 AM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: [AccessD] Framework Discussion - Questions and answers > > > If anyone has any questions please feel free to post them. I will > answer to the best of my abilities. > > John W. Colby > www.ColbyConsulting.com > > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From KIsmert at TexasSystems.com Tue Mar 9 14:38:23 2004 From: KIsmert at TexasSystems.com (Ken Ismert) Date: Tue, 9 Mar 2004 14:38:23 -0600 Subject: [AccessD] Framework Discussion - Who's following this In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <002c01c40616$77ba1ef0$2a3ca8c0@TEXASSYSTEMS.COM> 1. a 2. a 3. a Three suggested guidelines for frameworks: * Simplicity drives adoption. No matter how complex the framework becomes, if it is made of small, easy-to-validate parts, it will tend to be reliable and maintainable. Well-factored code, careful choice of object boundaries, and attention to naming makes the framework easier to understand and use. * Define boundaries. No matter how well thought-out and abstracted a framework is, perfect generalization is elusive. Deciding what the framework will and won't do beforehand guides development, and helps keep feature bloat from delaying a timely finish. * Accept the limitations of your platform. Frameworks can't make up for system shortcomings. If VB doesn't shutdown an application opened through automation when you set its reference to nothing, there is nothing within the system that you can do to fundamentally fix it. You can write standard handlers for such situations, but you can't force the user of the framework to use them. In cases like this, education is the best approach. Write code that is spare, obvious and well thought out, like Shaker or Biedermeier furniture. -Ken From donald.a.Mcgillivray at mail.sprint.com Tue Mar 9 15:03:08 2004 From: donald.a.Mcgillivray at mail.sprint.com (Mcgillivray, Donald [ITS]) Date: Tue, 9 Mar 2004 15:03:08 -0600 Subject: [AccessD] Framework Discussion - Questions and answers Message-ID: <6FC1C7A6E7BD5540AB0A8436713C43BF07573BD3@PKDWB01C.ad.sprint.com> If I may deviate from the course this thread has taken . . . ;o) John, Your classes contain Init and Term methods and in addition dclsFrm includes Class_Initialize and Class_Terminate methods. If you have covered this already, please bear with me as I struggle to get my head around the basics, but are the latter "special" methods automatically invoked whenever the class is instantiated and destroyed? If so, why not simply embed the Init and Term functionality in them and be done with it. Thanks again for the generous contribution of your time and effort to our further understanding of these concepts. This list is the greatest thanks to contributions from folks like you. Don McGillivray -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Philippe Pons Sent: Tuesday, March 09, 2004 12:18 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Framework Discussion - Questions and answers Tu lui chantes: "Voulez vous coucher avec moi, ce soir?" and the magic could occur! Philippe ----- Original Message ----- From: "Arthur Fuller" To: "'Access Developers discussion and problem solving'" Sent: Tuesday, March 09, 2004 8:51 PM Subject: RE: [AccessD] Framework Discussion - Questions and answers > How do I get Penelope Cruz to sleep with me? > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of John W. > Colby > Sent: Tuesday, March 09, 2004 3:36 AM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: [AccessD] Framework Discussion - Questions and answers > > > If anyone has any questions please feel free to post them. I will > answer to the best of my abilities. > > John W. Colby > www.ColbyConsulting.com > > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From jarus at amerinet-gpo.com Tue Mar 9 15:15:20 2004 From: jarus at amerinet-gpo.com (Terri Jarus) Date: Tue, 09 Mar 2004 15:15:20 -0600 Subject: [AccessD] Total Access Memo (AXP) Message-ID: Anyone had any success working with this software to "export" to Word documents? I just bought this software and am a little disappointed in the way it works regarding MS Word. I wanted to be able to use automation to create really nice Word reports, but have hit a stumbling block. I read the FAQs and the bulletin board and they stand pretty pat on the solution - which is to basically "cut and paste" via code from Access to Word. I've got the code in place but am still a little uncertain how to get the info into Word via automation. If anyone has a little time to spare to point me in the right direction or assist me in setting this up properly, please let me know. I have a Word template setup and my code is basically written except for those fields that are TAM fields. TIA, Terri Jarus Director, Contract Support Services jarus at amerinet-gpo.com 314-542-1902 --------------------------------------------------------------------------- This email and any files transmitted with it are confidential and intended solely for the use of the individuals or entities to whom they are addressed. If you have received this email in error please return it to the sender, and erase any copies thereof. Copyright 2004 Amerinet 1nc. From cfoust at infostatsystems.com Tue Mar 9 15:59:50 2004 From: cfoust at infostatsystems.com (Charlotte Foust) Date: Tue, 9 Mar 2004 13:59:50 -0800 Subject: [AccessD] Framework Discussion - Questions and answers Message-ID: ROTFLMAO Charlotte Foust -----Original Message----- From: Philippe Pons [mailto:Philippe.Pons19 at wanadoo.fr] Sent: Tuesday, March 09, 2004 12:18 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Framework Discussion - Questions and answers Tu lui chantes: "Voulez vous coucher avec moi, ce soir?" and the magic could occur! Philippe ----- Original Message ----- From: "Arthur Fuller" To: "'Access Developers discussion and problem solving'" Sent: Tuesday, March 09, 2004 8:51 PM Subject: RE: [AccessD] Framework Discussion - Questions and answers > How do I get Penelope Cruz to sleep with me? > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of John W. > Colby > Sent: Tuesday, March 09, 2004 3:36 AM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: [AccessD] Framework Discussion - Questions and answers > > > If anyone has any questions please feel free to post them. I will > answer to the best of my abilities. > > John W. Colby > www.ColbyConsulting.com > > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From accessd at shaw.ca Tue Mar 9 19:57:58 2004 From: accessd at shaw.ca (Jim Lawrence (AccessD)) Date: Tue, 09 Mar 2004 17:57:58 -0800 Subject: OT: RE: [AccessD] Framework Discussion - Questions and answers In-Reply-To: Message-ID: John: Don't you mean 'just hire the world's best marketing team.' The designers of the 'stair-master' made a fortune. My two cents worth Jim -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of John W. Colby Sent: Tuesday, March 09, 2004 4:23 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] Framework Discussion - Questions and answers Invent a better moustrap and hire the world's best marketing team. John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Erwin Craps - IT Helps Sent: Tuesday, March 09, 2004 6:54 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] Framework Discussion - Questions and answers John I have a question. How do I get very rich in a short time and honest way? :-) Erwin -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of John W. Colby Sent: Tuesday, March 09, 2004 12:36 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: [AccessD] Framework Discussion - Questions and answers If anyone has any questions please feel free to post them. I will answer to the best of my abilities. John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From markamatte at hotmail.com Tue Mar 9 20:58:28 2004 From: markamatte at hotmail.com (Mark A Matte) Date: Wed, 10 Mar 2004 02:58:28 +0000 Subject: [AccessD] Combo on Continuous Form Message-ID: Hello, In A2k I want a combo box on a each row of the continuous form that filters by the current record on that continuous form. Suggestions anyone? Thanks, Mark _________________________________________________________________ Get business advice and resources to improve your work life, from bCentral. http://special.msn.com/bcentral/loudclear.armx From jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com Tue Mar 9 21:08:47 2004 From: jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com (John W. Colby) Date: Tue, 9 Mar 2004 22:08:47 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Framework Discussion - Questions and answers In-Reply-To: <6FC1C7A6E7BD5540AB0A8436713C43BF07573BD3@PKDWB01C.ad.sprint.com> Message-ID: Don, Initialize and Terminate are the only two built in event sinks of the class. This means that these events fire and the code in these subs run regardless of anything else. Initialize runs before anything else in the class, and Terminate runs immediately as the last pointer to the class is set to nothing. Init() and Term() are METHODS of the class, not events. They can be called by code after the class is instantiated. Because Initialize() runs before anything else occurs there is no way for us to pass parameters in to it. Init() is just a method like any other and I can specify any parameters I want, and then pass in to the class things that it routinely needs to have to function. In fact I choose the name Init, it is a method I write and I could just as easily name it JCsSpecialInitialization() if I so desired. Obviously we need standard practices so if I need to pass in parameters to a class I always use the name Init() as the function for that purpose. If I need to cleanup, and that cleanup needs to be available from outside the class, I use Term() as the function name. Typically I use Initialize to initialize things like classes and collections. For example: dim mcolControls as collection The dim simply reserves a variable for the collection, it doesn't make it useable. To do that we need a set statement: set mcolControls = new Collection. I will almost always put that set statement in the Initialize event so that a) it is always initialized b) I can go one place to find all set statements for objects in the class' header On the other hand I almost always place all of my cleanup of these objects (set mcolControls = nothing) in my term and call term from Terminate. I do that because: a) I almost always call Terminate from outside the class but... b) if for some reason the last pointer to the class is just set to nothing "accidentally" term will still run because Terminate will fire. Did all that make sense? John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Mcgillivray, Donald [ITS] Sent: Tuesday, March 09, 2004 4:03 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] Framework Discussion - Questions and answers If I may deviate from the course this thread has taken . . . ;o) John, Your classes contain Init and Term methods and in addition dclsFrm includes Class_Initialize and Class_Terminate methods. If you have covered this already, please bear with me as I struggle to get my head around the basics, but are the latter "special" methods automatically invoked whenever the class is instantiated and destroyed? If so, why not simply embed the Init and Term functionality in them and be done with it. Thanks again for the generous contribution of your time and effort to our further understanding of these concepts. This list is the greatest thanks to contributions from folks like you. Don McGillivray -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Philippe Pons Sent: Tuesday, March 09, 2004 12:18 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Framework Discussion - Questions and answers Tu lui chantes: "Voulez vous coucher avec moi, ce soir?" and the magic could occur! Philippe ----- Original Message ----- From: "Arthur Fuller" To: "'Access Developers discussion and problem solving'" Sent: Tuesday, March 09, 2004 8:51 PM Subject: RE: [AccessD] Framework Discussion - Questions and answers > How do I get Penelope Cruz to sleep with me? > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of John W. > Colby > Sent: Tuesday, March 09, 2004 3:36 AM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: [AccessD] Framework Discussion - Questions and answers > > > If anyone has any questions please feel free to post them. I will > answer to the best of my abilities. > > John W. Colby > www.ColbyConsulting.com > > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com Tue Mar 9 21:23:08 2004 From: jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com (John W. Colby) Date: Tue, 9 Mar 2004 22:23:08 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Framework Discussion - Who's following this In-Reply-To: <002c01c40616$77ba1ef0$2a3ca8c0@TEXASSYSTEMS.COM> Message-ID: Ken, >Deciding what the framework will and won't do beforehand guides development, and helps keep feature bloat from delaying a timely finish. Yea... in a perfect world. Unfortunately for most of us a framework is not a project which we spec out and write, but rather a living entity that we add functionality to on a weekly basis. Thus feature bloat is an inherent part of doing business, and there is never a finish, much less a timely one! ;-) >Write code that is spare, obvious and well thought out, like Shaker or Biedermeier furniture. And never reference things like Biedermeier furniture without copious comments as to what the heck it might be. >Accept the limitations of your platform. Frameworks can't make up for system shortcomings. I understand what you are saying (and your example is a perfect one), however I think it is important to NEVER accept the limitations of your platform. Much of what my framework does is nothing more than an attempt by me to program around the limitations of Access. To the degree that I succeed, I make myself (or my framework) more valuable to my client. If I fail to make the attempt then I end up just another developer, building just another app, with nothing to differentiate me from the next guy to walk in the door. furthermore: * Comment, comment, comment! * Use conventions. There are many levels to conventions from object naming, to interfaces between objects, to systems for troubleshooting, to the way forms and controls behave across the application. Develop them and then apply them consistently. There is nothing more frustrating to a user than an application where behaviors like NotInList work here but a bizarre Access error message pops up over there. Thanks for your input Ken, I am hoping to get more people with your level of expertise to pipe up with their collective wisdom. John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Ken Ismert Sent: Tuesday, March 09, 2004 3:38 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: [AccessD] Framework Discussion - Who's following this 1. a 2. a 3. a Three suggested guidelines for frameworks: * Simplicity drives adoption. No matter how complex the framework becomes, if it is made of small, easy-to-validate parts, it will tend to be reliable and maintainable. Well-factored code, careful choice of object boundaries, and attention to naming makes the framework easier to understand and use. * Define boundaries. No matter how well thought-out and abstracted a framework is, perfect generalization is elusive. Deciding what the framework will and won't do beforehand guides development, and helps keep feature bloat from delaying a timely finish. * Accept the limitations of your platform. Frameworks can't make up for system shortcomings. If VB doesn't shutdown an application opened through automation when you set its reference to nothing, there is nothing within the system that you can do to fundamentally fix it. You can write standard handlers for such situations, but you can't force the user of the framework to use them. In cases like this, education is the best approach. Write code that is spare, obvious and well thought out, like Shaker or Biedermeier furniture. -Ken -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From jwelz at hotmail.com Tue Mar 9 22:10:58 2004 From: jwelz at hotmail.com (Jürgen Welz) Date: Tue, 09 Mar 2004 21:10:58 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] Combo on Continuous Form Message-ID: As long as you're not using multiple instances of your continuous form you can set the rowsource of the combo with a where clause referencing the Forms.FormName.FilterControlName. The reason it doesn't work with multiple instances is you need the absolute form reference. There are workarounds to the mulit instance issue but they are not convenient. Ciao J?rgen Welz Edmonton, Alberta jwelz at hotmail.com >From: "Mark A Matte" >Hello, > >In A2k I want a combo box on a each row of the continuous form that filters >by the current record on that continuous form. Suggestions anyone? > >Thanks, > >Mark > >_________________________________________________________________ >Get business advice and resources to improve your work life, from bCentral. >http://special.msn.com/bcentral/loudclear.armx > >-- >_______________________________________________ >AccessD mailing list >AccessD at databaseadvisors.com >http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd >Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com _________________________________________________________________ Tired of spam? Get advanced junk mail protection with MSN Premium http://join.msn.com/?pgmarket=en-ca&page=byoa/prem&xAPID=1994&DI=1034&SU=http://hotmail.com/enca&HL=Market_MSNIS_Taglines From markamatte at hotmail.com Tue Mar 9 22:42:13 2004 From: markamatte at hotmail.com (Mark A Matte) Date: Wed, 10 Mar 2004 04:42:13 +0000 Subject: [AccessD] Combo on Continuous Form Message-ID: J?rgen, If by multiple instances...you mean same combo appearing on each row/record...then yes...this is what I am trying to accomplish. Thanks, Mark >From: "J?rgen Welz" >Reply-To: Access Developers discussion and problem >solving >To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com >Subject: RE: [AccessD] Combo on Continuous Form >Date: Tue, 09 Mar 2004 21:10:58 -0700 > >As long as you're not using multiple instances of your continuous form you >can set the rowsource of the combo with a where clause referencing the >Forms.FormName.FilterControlName. The reason it doesn't work with multiple >instances is you need the absolute form reference. There are workarounds >to the mulit instance issue but they are not convenient. > > > >Ciao >J?rgen Welz >Edmonton, Alberta >jwelz at hotmail.com > > > > > >>From: "Mark A Matte" >>Hello, >> >>In A2k I want a combo box on a each row of the continuous form that >>filters by the current record on that continuous form. Suggestions >>anyone? >> >>Thanks, >> >>Mark >> >>_________________________________________________________________ >>Get business advice and resources to improve your work life, from >>bCentral. http://special.msn.com/bcentral/loudclear.armx >> >>-- >>_______________________________________________ >>AccessD mailing list >>AccessD at databaseadvisors.com >>http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd >>Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > >_________________________________________________________________ >Tired of spam? Get advanced junk mail protection with MSN Premium >http://join.msn.com/?pgmarket=en-ca&page=byoa/prem&xAPID=1994&DI=1034&SU=http://hotmail.com/enca&HL=Market_MSNIS_Taglines > >-- >_______________________________________________ >AccessD mailing list >AccessD at databaseadvisors.com >http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd >Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com _________________________________________________________________ Create a Job Alert on MSN Careers and enter for a chance to win $1000! http://msn.careerbuilder.com/promo/kaday.htm?siteid=CBMSN_1K&sc_extcmp=JS_JASweep_MSNHotm2 From jwelz at hotmail.com Wed Mar 10 00:17:49 2004 From: jwelz at hotmail.com (Jürgen Welz) Date: Tue, 09 Mar 2004 23:17:49 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] Combo on Continuous Form Message-ID: Acutally I meant multiple instances of the entire form. It's been a while since I did this. Last time I used a textbox control over a combo hiding everything but the dropdown arrow. In the gotfocus event of the textbox I hid the textbox and dropped the combo. In the lost focus I unhid the textbox. This was a bit unnerving in that the values in all the rows would be identical while the combo had focus but it worked fairly well. I recall seeing a less kludgy solution but can't remember exactly where. I just tried moving a separate form sized as a combo to the coordinates of the active control but Access does not accurately report the top position of the control in the current row of a continuous form. This is one of the places where an unbound grid of display controls comes into its own and this is the manner in which I handled this kind of thing more recently. It's a lot of code to build a scrollable grid of display controls. Ciao J?rgen Welz Edmonton, Alberta jwelz at hotmail.com >From: "Mark A Matte" >Reply-To: Access Developers discussion and problem >solving >To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com >Subject: RE: [AccessD] Combo on Continuous Form >Date: Wed, 10 Mar 2004 04:42:13 +0000 >MIME-Version: 1.0 >X-Originating-IP: [24.167.155.76] >X-Originating-Email: [markamatte at hotmail.com] >X-Sender: markamatte at hotmail.com >Received: from mc12-f22.hotmail.com ([65.54.167.158]) by >mc12-s11.hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC(5.0.2195.6824); Tue, 9 Mar 2004 >20:43:05 -0800 >Received: from databaseadvisors.com ([209.135.140.44]) by >mc12-f22.hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC(5.0.2195.6824); Tue, 9 Mar 2004 >20:43:05 -0800 >Received: from databaseadvisors.com (databaseadvisors.com >[209.135.140.44])by databaseadvisors.com (8.11.6/8.11.6) with ESMTP id >i2A4gBM08877;Tue, 9 Mar 2004 22:42:11 -0600 >Received: from hotmail.com (bay1-f111.bay1.hotmail.com [65.54.245.111])by >databaseadvisors.com (8.11.6/8.11.6) with ESMTP id i2A4g7M08825for >; Tue, 9 Mar 2004 22:42:07 -0600 >Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft >SMTPSVC;Tue, 9 Mar 2004 20:42:13 -0800 >Received: from 24.167.155.76 by by1fd.bay1.hotmail.msn.com with HTTP;Wed, >10 Mar 2004 04:42:13 GMT >X-Message-Info: jl7Vrt/mfsrUVeJNP+9RdguElqSJX66F >Message-ID: >X-OriginalArrivalTime: 10 Mar 2004 04:42:13.0964 >(UTC)FILETIME=[0EE098C0:01C4065A] >X-BeenThere: accessd at databaseadvisors.com >X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.4 >Precedence: list >List-Id: Access Developers discussion and problem >solving >List-Help: >List-Post: >List-Subscribe: >, >List-Archive: >List-Unsubscribe: >, >Errors-To: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com >Return-Path: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > >J?rgen, > >If by multiple instances...you mean same combo appearing on each >row/record...then yes...this is what I am trying to accomplish. > >Thanks, > >Mark > > >>From: "J?rgen Welz" >>Reply-To: Access Developers discussion and problem >>solving >>To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com >>Subject: RE: [AccessD] Combo on Continuous Form >>Date: Tue, 09 Mar 2004 21:10:58 -0700 >> >>As long as you're not using multiple instances of your continuous form you >>can set the rowsource of the combo with a where clause referencing the >>Forms.FormName.FilterControlName. The reason it doesn't work with >>multiple instances is you need the absolute form reference. There are >>workarounds to the mulit instance issue but they are not convenient. >> >> >> >>Ciao >>J?rgen Welz >>Edmonton, Alberta >>jwelz at hotmail.com >> >> >> >> >> >>>From: "Mark A Matte" >>>Hello, >>> >>>In A2k I want a combo box on a each row of the continuous form that >>>filters by the current record on that continuous form. Suggestions >>>anyone? >>> >>>Thanks, >>> >>>Mark >>> >>>_________________________________________________________________ >>>Get business advice and resources to improve your work life, from >>>bCentral. http://special.msn.com/bcentral/loudclear.armx >>> >>>-- >>>_______________________________________________ >>>AccessD mailing list >>>AccessD at databaseadvisors.com >>>http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd >>>Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com >> >>_________________________________________________________________ >>Tired of spam? Get advanced junk mail protection with MSN Premium >>http://join.msn.com/?pgmarket=en-ca&page=byoa/prem&xAPID=1994&DI=1034&SU=http://hotmail.com/enca&HL=Market_MSNIS_Taglines >> >>-- >>_______________________________________________ >>AccessD mailing list >>AccessD at databaseadvisors.com >>http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd >>Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > >_________________________________________________________________ >Create a Job Alert on MSN Careers and enter for a chance to win $1000! >http://msn.careerbuilder.com/promo/kaday.htm?siteid=CBMSN_1K&sc_extcmp=JS_JASweep_MSNHotm2 > >-- >_______________________________________________ >AccessD mailing list >AccessD at databaseadvisors.com >http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd >Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com _________________________________________________________________ Add photos to your e-mail with MSN Premium. Get 2 months FREE* http://join.msn.com/?pgmarket=en-ca&page=byoa/prem&xAPID=1994&DI=1034&SU=http://hotmail.com/enca&HL=Market_MSNIS_Taglines From jwelz at hotmail.com Wed Mar 10 00:33:33 2004 From: jwelz at hotmail.com (Jürgen Welz) Date: Tue, 09 Mar 2004 23:33:33 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] Your favorite control behavior Message-ID: Getting back to my favorite control behavior: I like list boxes to have a clickable heading that toggles sort direction over each column in the list. For multi select list boxes, I like to have label buttons at the bottom for selecting All, None or Inverting the selection. I build these as subforms receiving property settings from the parent form as to the number of columns, the column widths and the rowsource. These subform lists resize themselves to the size of the subform allotted them on the parent form. The clickable sort/select buttons are always labels that appear depressed on mouse down and raised on mouse up. I also move a small graphic arrow indicating the sort direction and which column is currently sorted on top of the label clicked on. Using a label to receive the click prevents focus from moving from the list or the parent form. I change the itemdata property of the graphic to indicate the sort direction. The concept looks a lot like the sorting in Outlook and some versions of windows explorer and the users immediately grasp the significance. As I don't like to requery to fill these lists by direction, I always like to use arrays as a rowsource and only requery when the list data has changed. (It has always been my contention that I'd rather run a line of code than retrieve a bit over a LAN as the code executes faster than bits can travel). I have been using disconnected data wherever possible, even in Access 97, and sorting arrays rather than retrieving recordsets sorted one way and then another and this approach has nearly always been applied to my sortable lists. Ciao J?rgen Welz Edmonton, Alberta jwelz at hotmail.com _________________________________________________________________ MSN Premium includes powerful parental controls and get 2 months FREE* http://join.msn.com/?pgmarket=en-ca&page=byoa/prem&xAPID=1994&DI=1034&SU=http://hotmail.com/enca&HL=Market_MSNIS_Taglines From accessd at shaw.ca Wed Mar 10 04:30:42 2004 From: accessd at shaw.ca (Jim Lawrence (AccessD)) Date: Wed, 10 Mar 2004 02:30:42 -0800 Subject: [AccessD] Combo on Continuous Form In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Something like what you have to do to create a muti-field combo box in VB? Jim -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of J?rgen Welz Sent: Tuesday, March 09, 2004 10:18 PM To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: RE: [AccessD] Combo on Continuous Form Acutally I meant multiple instances of the entire form. It's been a while since I did this. Last time I used a textbox control over a combo hiding everything but the dropdown arrow. In the gotfocus event of the textbox I hid the textbox and dropped the combo. In the lost focus I unhid the textbox. This was a bit unnerving in that the values in all the rows would be identical while the combo had focus but it worked fairly well. I recall seeing a less kludgy solution but can't remember exactly where. I just tried moving a separate form sized as a combo to the coordinates of the active control but Access does not accurately report the top position of the control in the current row of a continuous form. This is one of the places where an unbound grid of display controls comes into its own and this is the manner in which I handled this kind of thing more recently. It's a lot of code to build a scrollable grid of display controls. Ciao J?rgen Welz Edmonton, Alberta jwelz at hotmail.com >From: "Mark A Matte" >Reply-To: Access Developers discussion and problem >solving >To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com >Subject: RE: [AccessD] Combo on Continuous Form >Date: Wed, 10 Mar 2004 04:42:13 +0000 >MIME-Version: 1.0 >X-Originating-IP: [24.167.155.76] >X-Originating-Email: [markamatte at hotmail.com] >X-Sender: markamatte at hotmail.com >Received: from mc12-f22.hotmail.com ([65.54.167.158]) by >mc12-s11.hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC(5.0.2195.6824); Tue, 9 Mar 2004 >20:43:05 -0800 >Received: from databaseadvisors.com ([209.135.140.44]) by >mc12-f22.hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC(5.0.2195.6824); Tue, 9 Mar 2004 >20:43:05 -0800 >Received: from databaseadvisors.com (databaseadvisors.com >[209.135.140.44])by databaseadvisors.com (8.11.6/8.11.6) with ESMTP id >i2A4gBM08877;Tue, 9 Mar 2004 22:42:11 -0600 >Received: from hotmail.com (bay1-f111.bay1.hotmail.com [65.54.245.111])by >databaseadvisors.com (8.11.6/8.11.6) with ESMTP id i2A4g7M08825for >; Tue, 9 Mar 2004 22:42:07 -0600 >Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft >SMTPSVC;Tue, 9 Mar 2004 20:42:13 -0800 >Received: from 24.167.155.76 by by1fd.bay1.hotmail.msn.com with HTTP;Wed, >10 Mar 2004 04:42:13 GMT >X-Message-Info: jl7Vrt/mfsrUVeJNP+9RdguElqSJX66F >Message-ID: >X-OriginalArrivalTime: 10 Mar 2004 04:42:13.0964 >(UTC)FILETIME=[0EE098C0:01C4065A] >X-BeenThere: accessd at databaseadvisors.com >X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.4 >Precedence: list >List-Id: Access Developers discussion and problem >solving >List-Help: >List-Post: >List-Subscribe: >, >List-Archive: >List-Unsubscribe: >, >Errors-To: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com >Return-Path: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > >J?rgen, > >If by multiple instances...you mean same combo appearing on each >row/record...then yes...this is what I am trying to accomplish. > >Thanks, > >Mark > > >>From: "J?rgen Welz" >>Reply-To: Access Developers discussion and problem >>solving >>To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com >>Subject: RE: [AccessD] Combo on Continuous Form >>Date: Tue, 09 Mar 2004 21:10:58 -0700 >> >>As long as you're not using multiple instances of your continuous form you >>can set the rowsource of the combo with a where clause referencing the >>Forms.FormName.FilterControlName. The reason it doesn't work with >>multiple instances is you need the absolute form reference. There are >>workarounds to the mulit instance issue but they are not convenient. >> >> >> >>Ciao >>J?rgen Welz >>Edmonton, Alberta >>jwelz at hotmail.com >> >> >> >> >> >>>From: "Mark A Matte" >>>Hello, >>> >>>In A2k I want a combo box on a each row of the continuous form that >>>filters by the current record on that continuous form. Suggestions >>>anyone? >>> >>>Thanks, >>> >>>Mark >>> >>>_________________________________________________________________ >>>Get business advice and resources to improve your work life, from >>>bCentral. http://special.msn.com/bcentral/loudclear.armx >>> >>>-- >>>_______________________________________________ >>>AccessD mailing list >>>AccessD at databaseadvisors.com >>>http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd >>>Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com >> >>_________________________________________________________________ >>Tired of spam? Get advanced junk mail protection with MSN Premium >>http://join.msn.com/?pgmarket=en-ca&page=byoa/prem&xAPID=1994&DI=1034&SU=h ttp://hotmail.com/enca&HL=Market_MSNIS_Taglines >> >>-- >>_______________________________________________ >>AccessD mailing list >>AccessD at databaseadvisors.com >>http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd >>Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > >_________________________________________________________________ >Create a Job Alert on MSN Careers and enter for a chance to win $1000! >http://msn.careerbuilder.com/promo/kaday.htm?siteid=CBMSN_1K&sc_extcmp=JS_J ASweep_MSNHotm2 > >-- >_______________________________________________ >AccessD mailing list >AccessD at databaseadvisors.com >http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd >Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com _________________________________________________________________ Add photos to your e-mail with MSN Premium. Get 2 months FREE* http://join.msn.com/?pgmarket=en-ca&page=byoa/prem&xAPID=1994&DI=1034&SU=htt p://hotmail.com/enca&HL=Market_MSNIS_Taglines -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From accessd667 at yahoo.com Wed Mar 10 05:15:17 2004 From: accessd667 at yahoo.com (S D) Date: Wed, 10 Mar 2004 03:15:17 -0800 (PST) Subject: [AccessD] Setting/ retrieving Field properties? Message-ID: <20040310111517.21722.qmail@web61109.mail.yahoo.com> Hi group, I need to set the field properties of a lot of tables. I want to do this using VBA. I was reading Access 2000 Developers Handbook and I found the code printed below. However these are not the properties I expected. I need to set field properties like: Fiel Size Required Allow Zerow Length Any idea how I can do this? TIA Sander Private Sub Command0_Click() Dim db As DAO.Database Dim intI As Integer Dim tdf As DAO.TableDef Set db = CurrentDb() For intI = 0 To db.TableDefs.Count - 1 Set tdf = db.TableDefs(intI) If tdf.Name = "V3_44_RSDTD1" Then Debug.Print "Printing properties for table: " & tdf.Name Call ListTableProps(tdf.Name) MsgBox "Properties listed!" End If Next intI MsgBox "Done! Tables found: " & intI End Sub Sub ListTableProps(strTable As String) Dim db As Database Dim tdf As TableDef Dim prp As DAO.Property Set db = CurrentDb() Set tdf = db(strTable) For Each prp In tdf.Properties Debug.Print prp.Name, prp.Type, prp.Value Next prp End Sub --------------------------------- Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Search - Find what you?re looking for faster. From jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com Wed Mar 10 05:37:29 2004 From: jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com (John W. Colby) Date: Wed, 10 Mar 2004 06:37:29 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Your favorite control behavior In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Jurgen, Great ideas. I've been looking at clickable header sort dir methods for awhile. One question, how do you determine that a lists data source has changed? This one has always bugged me since Access has nothing built in to tell the developer that the data in a table has changed, and certainly not for data changes from workstation to workstation. John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of J?rgen Welz Sent: Wednesday, March 10, 2004 1:34 AM To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: RE: [AccessD] Your favorite control behavior Getting back to my favorite control behavior: I like list boxes to have a clickable heading that toggles sort direction over each column in the list. For multi select list boxes, I like to have label buttons at the bottom for selecting All, None or Inverting the selection. I build these as subforms receiving property settings from the parent form as to the number of columns, the column widths and the rowsource. These subform lists resize themselves to the size of the subform allotted them on the parent form. The clickable sort/select buttons are always labels that appear depressed on mouse down and raised on mouse up. I also move a small graphic arrow indicating the sort direction and which column is currently sorted on top of the label clicked on. Using a label to receive the click prevents focus from moving from the list or the parent form. I change the itemdata property of the graphic to indicate the sort direction. The concept looks a lot like the sorting in Outlook and some versions of windows explorer and the users immediately grasp the significance. As I don't like to requery to fill these lists by direction, I always like to use arrays as a rowsource and only requery when the list data has changed. (It has always been my contention that I'd rather run a line of code than retrieve a bit over a LAN as the code executes faster than bits can travel). I have been using disconnected data wherever possible, even in Access 97, and sorting arrays rather than retrieving recordsets sorted one way and then another and this approach has nearly always been applied to my sortable lists. Ciao J?rgen Welz Edmonton, Alberta jwelz at hotmail.com _________________________________________________________________ MSN Premium includes powerful parental controls and get 2 months FREE* http://join.msn.com/?pgmarket=en-ca&page=byoa/prem&xAPID=1994&DI=1034&SU=htt p://hotmail.com/enca&HL=Market_MSNIS_Taglines -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From michael.broesdorf at web.de Wed Mar 10 07:41:31 2004 From: michael.broesdorf at web.de (=?iso-8859-1?Q?Michael_Br=F6sdorf?=) Date: Wed, 10 Mar 2004 14:41:31 +0100 Subject: [AccessD] PivotTable-view not working In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Dear group, for testing purposes I installed Access 2003 on a machine that already has Access 2000 and Access 2002 installed. I wanted to play around with the PivotTable-view, but everytime I try to switch to that view, an error message pops up telling me that this feature isn't installed. But I could not find any options for pivoting in the setup programm. I just installed Access 2003 and VBA from an Office 2003 Professional CDROM. Which Office-component needs to be installed so that the pivot table view works? TIA, Michael From jimdettman at earthlink.net Wed Mar 10 08:12:23 2004 From: jimdettman at earthlink.net (Jim Dettman) Date: Wed, 10 Mar 2004 09:12:23 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Your favorite control behavior In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <<>When it comes to subform tabbing you can store the tab index (me.parent.tabindex), do a one time write of cursor navigation code for the subform (for continuous forms for example) and at EOF, iterate the parent's control's tab index properties and set focus to the next one so the user doesn't know he was ever in a subform. Sounds like one for the framework! Thanks.>> Some code below that might help get that started. This is really old code (A2 days) so no comments on the style or the sendkeys use. Jim Dettman President, Online Computer Services of WNY, Inc. (315) 699-3443 jimdettman at earthlink.net Sub SubFormNavigate(ByVal wKeyCode As Integer, ByVal wShift As Integer, Frm As Form, strParam As String) ' Receives : KeyCode representing which key was pressed ' Shift indicating whether shift, alt, ctrl were pressed ' Returns : Nothing (subroutine). ' Author : Ian Sparks (Uk). ' Date : 5th July 1994. ' Purpose : This function is called from the start and end of single-value subforms ' and catches keystrokes like TAB to move off the current record. It re-maps ' these keystrokes to CTRL-TABs to move them to the next subform instead. ' The direction the user was trying to move can be checked by the tab order of ' the current field. A tab index of 0 is the first field on the subform whilst ' any other number is assumed to be the last field on the subform. ' Rewrite : Jim Dettman 10/14/94 ' Rewrote routine to make it more generic and improve ' performance. Dim rstSubForm As Recordset Dim rstSubFormClone As Recordset Dim strBM As String Dim fAtNewRecord As Integer Dim fShiftDown As Integer 'Was the Shift key pressed down? Dim fControlDown As Integer 'Was the Ctrl key pressed down? Dim fAltDown As Integer 'Was the Alt key pressed down? Dim fTab As Integer 'Is the TAB key pressed? Dim fUp As Integer 'Is the UP key pressed? Dim fDown As Integer 'Is the DOWN key pressed? Dim fEnter As Integer 'Is the ENTER key pressed? Dim fMovingDown As Integer 'User is trying to move down? Dim fMovingUp As Integer 'User is trying to move up? Dim fOnFirstField As Integer 'Are we on first field or not? Dim fIsBound As Integer 'Is this form bound? Const Routine = "SubFormNavigate" Const Version = "1.0.1" On Error GoTo SubFormNavigate_Error ' Find out the status of the SHIFT, ALT and control keys fShiftDown = (wShift And SHIFT_MASK) > 0 fControlDown = (wShift And CTRL_MASK) > 0 fAltDown = (wShift And ALT_MASK) > 0 ' Find out what actual "movement" key was pressed fTab = (wKeyCode = KEY_TAB) fUp = (wKeyCode = KEY_UP) fDown = (wKeyCode = KEY_DOWN) fEnter = (wKeyCode = KEY_RETURN) ' Work out which direction the user was trying to move in. fMovingDown = (Not (fShiftDown) And fTab) Or fDown Or fEnter fMovingUp = (fShiftDown And fTab) Or fUp ' Decide if this subform is bound. Set rstSubForm = Frm.RecordsetClone ' Refer to forms record set If IsNull(rstSubForm.Name) Then fIsBound = False Else fIsBound = True End If ' Decide if we are on first field or not. If strParam = "F" Then fOnFirstField = True Else fOnFirstField = False End If ' Which way are we going? If fOnFirstField And fMovingUp Then If Not (fIsBound) Then DoCmd.CancelEvent SendKeys "+^{tab}" Else On Error Resume Next strBM = Frm.Bookmark fAtNewRecord = (Err = 3021) On Error GoTo SubFormNavigate_Error If (fAtNewRecord) Then If (rstSubForm.RecordCount = 0) Then DoCmd.CancelEvent SendKeys "+^{tab}" End If Else rstSubForm.Bookmark = Frm.Bookmark Set rstSubFormClone = rstSubForm.Clone() rstSubFormClone.Bookmark = rstSubForm.Bookmark rstSubFormClone.MovePrevious If rstSubFormClone.BOF Then DoCmd.CancelEvent SendKeys "+^{tab}" End If rstSubFormClone.Close End If End If Else If Not (fOnFirstField) And fMovingDown Then If Not (fIsBound) Then DoCmd.CancelEvent SendKeys "^{tab}" Else On Error Resume Next strBM = Frm.Bookmark ' Get current row bookmark fAtNewRecord = (Err = 3021) On Error GoTo SubFormNavigate_Error If (fAtNewRecord) Then DoCmd.CancelEvent SendKeys "^{tab}" Else ' Not at new record ' Need to handle case where form is read only ' and no new record is available 'rstSubForm.Bookmark = frm.Bookmark 'Set rstSubFormClone = rstSubForm.Clone() 'rstSubFormClone.Bookmark = rstSubForm.Bookmark 'rstSubFormClone.MoveNext If Frm.DefaultEditing = 3 Or Frm.DefaultEditing = 4 Then DoCmd.CancelEvent SendKeys "^{tab}" End If 'rstSubFormClone.Close End If End If End If End If Exit_SubFormNavigate: ' Give time for things to happen DoEvents rstSubForm.Close Exit Sub SubFormNavigate_Error: UnexpectedError ModuleName, Routine, Version, Err, Error$ Resume Exit_SubFormNavigate End Sub ============================================================================ =========================================== ' Purpose: Tabs user out of subform if no records exist in form ' ' Accepts: Form name and subform name ' Returns: Nothing ' ' Sub SubFormEnter(FormName As String, SubFormControl As String) Dim rstSubForm As Recordset Dim rstSubFormClone As Recordset Dim fIsBound As Integer Const Routine = "SubFormEnter" Const Version = "1.0" On Error GoTo SubFormEnter_Error ' ' Check for empty subform. If empty, Ctrl/Tab out. ' ' Decide if this subform is bound. Set rstSubForm = Forms(FormName)(SubFormControl).Form.RecordsetClone If IsNull(rstSubForm.Name) Then fIsBound = False Else fIsBound = True End If If (fIsBound) And (rstSubForm.RecordCount) = 0 Then DoCmd.CancelEvent SendKeys "^{tab}" End If rstSubForm.Close Exit_SubFormEnter: Exit Sub SubFormEnter_Error: UnexpectedError ModuleName, Routine, Version, Err, Error$ Resume Exit_SubFormEnter End Sub -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of John W. Colby Sent: Sunday, March 07, 2004 9:32 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] Your favorite control behavior >When it comes to subform tabbing you can store the tab index (me.parent.tabindex), do a one time write of cursor navigation code for the subform (for continuous forms for example) and at EOF, iterate the parent's control's tab index properties and set focus to the next one so the user doesn't know he was ever in a subform. Sounds like one for the framework! Thanks. <> Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From jimdettman at earthlink.net Wed Mar 10 08:33:36 2004 From: jimdettman at earthlink.net (Jim Dettman) Date: Wed, 10 Mar 2004 09:33:36 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Your favorite control behavior In-Reply-To: Message-ID: John, Here are some things that might go into your framework (apologies for any repeats) off the top of my head. Some are control specific and other are general items: 1. Clickable column headers to control sort order. 2. Dynamic find capability based on currently selected column. 3. A mover class (two list boxes to/from). 4. Routine to populate a tree view control from a data source. 5. Security at field/control level 6. Popup calendar on date/time controls. 7. Background/foreground highlight based on current control. 8. Background row highlight in a continuous form. 9. Save/restore of user preferences; position of forms, values in filters, etc. 10. Scalable resizing of forms. 11. User activity tracking (objects used). Some of these are things I have done in Access, some come from things in the ADH I've seen but never tried. But all are things you might want to see in a Framework from a development perspective for Access. Jim (315) 699-3443 jimdettman at earthlink.net -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of John W. Colby Sent: Saturday, March 06, 2004 4:24 PM To: AccessD Subject: [AccessD] Your favorite control behavior I am taking suggestions for control behaviors that you have found useful and have programmed controls to perform in the past. For example I program the back color of combos, lists and text boxes to change to a given color as they get the focus, and back to their original color as they lose the focus. This helps to avoid the "where's the cursor" questions. Another example, I program the double-click of a combo to open a form to allow editing the data in the table that the combo pulls from. In addition, if a combo is programmed to perform this behavior, I dynamically set its label's back color to a specific color. this is a visual cue that "this combo has the dbl-click behavior activated" What kinds of things do you have your controls do? John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From jwelz at hotmail.com Wed Mar 10 09:13:36 2004 From: jwelz at hotmail.com (Jürgen Welz) Date: Wed, 10 Mar 2004 08:13:36 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] Your favorite control behavior Message-ID: I use various techniques depending on the type of list. Most of my lists rarely change but with those that do, I have a single record table with a time field for each combo/list data that has data that should be current. When a container form opens or when a user sorts or filters a list data, it checks the time for a particular table to see if the array is stale. If so, it requiries the data and resets the array. In order for this to work, I code an update of the single record time table when the data is changed. For example, my not in list procedure uses the table name as a parameter and it updates the time flag for that table as well as adding. My edit form for that table updates the time flag table in the after update. When encapuslated as a subform, there is a property procedure that sets and gets the last time source data was queried. It is necessary to work with server time. A system like your dependent control system would be applicable here. Ciao J?rgen Welz Edmonton, Alberta jwelz at hotmail.com >From: "John W. Colby" >Reply-To: Access Developers discussion and problem >solving >To: "Access Developers discussion and problem >solving" >Subject: RE: [AccessD] Your favorite control behavior >Date: Wed, 10 Mar 2004 06:37:29 -0500 >MIME-Version: 1.0 >Received: from mc12-f28.hotmail.com ([65.54.167.164]) by >mc12-s8.hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC(5.0.2195.6824); Wed, 10 Mar 2004 >03:36:54 -0800 >Received: from databaseadvisors.com ([209.135.140.44]) by >mc12-f28.hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC(5.0.2195.6824); Wed, 10 Mar >2004 03:36:53 -0800 >Received: from databaseadvisors.com (databaseadvisors.com >[209.135.140.44])by databaseadvisors.com (8.11.6/8.11.6) with ESMTP id >i2ABaDM24060;Wed, 10 Mar 2004 05:36:13 -0600 >Received: from ColbyConsulting.com (svr5.tokios.com [69.41.224.26])by >databaseadvisors.com (8.11.6/8.11.6) with ESMTP id i2ABZxM23851for >; Wed, 10 Mar 2004 05:36:00 -0600 >Received: from jcolbyws [67.86.213.29] by ColbyConsulting.com with >ESMTP(SMTPD32-7.15) id ADA93F020A; Wed, 10 Mar 2004 05:36:09 -0600 >X-Message-Info: jl7Vrt/mfsqW0/sGQb515Tsu9Rkf1saX >Message-ID: >X-MSMail-Priority: Normal >X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2911.0) >X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 >In-Reply-To: >X-BeenThere: accessd at databaseadvisors.com >X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.4 >Precedence: list >List-Id: Access Developers discussion and problem >solving >List-Help: >List-Post: >List-Subscribe: >, >List-Archive: >List-Unsubscribe: >, >Errors-To: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com >Return-Path: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com >X-OriginalArrivalTime: 10 Mar 2004 11:36:53.0780 (UTC) >FILETIME=[FC673D40:01C40693] > >Jurgen, > >Great ideas. I've been looking at clickable header sort dir methods for >awhile. > >One question, how do you determine that a lists data source has changed? >This one has always bugged me since Access has nothing built in to tell the >developer that the data in a table has changed, and certainly not for data >changes from workstation to workstation. > >John W. Colby >www.ColbyConsulting.com > >-----Original Message----- >From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com >[mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of J?rgen Welz >Sent: Wednesday, March 10, 2004 1:34 AM >To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com >Subject: RE: [AccessD] Your favorite control behavior > > >Getting back to my favorite control behavior: > >I like list boxes to have a clickable heading that toggles sort direction >over each column in the list. For multi select list boxes, I like to have >label buttons at the bottom for selecting All, None or Inverting the >selection. > >I build these as subforms receiving property settings from the parent form >as to the number of columns, the column widths and the rowsource. These >subform lists resize themselves to the size of the subform allotted them on >the parent form. The clickable sort/select buttons are always labels that >appear depressed on mouse down and raised on mouse up. I also move a small >graphic arrow indicating the sort direction and which column is currently >sorted on top of the label clicked on. Using a label to receive the click >prevents focus from moving from the list or the parent form. I change the >itemdata property of the graphic to indicate the sort direction. The >concept looks a lot like the sorting in Outlook and some versions of >windows >explorer and the users immediately grasp the significance. As I don't like >to requery to fill these lists by direction, I always like to use arrays as >a rowsource and only requery when the list data has changed. (It has >always >been my contention that I'd rather run a line of code than retrieve a bit >over a LAN as the code executes faster than bits can travel). I have been >using disconnected data wherever possible, even in Access 97, and sorting >arrays rather than retrieving recordsets sorted one way and then another >and >this approach has nearly always been applied to my sortable lists. > > > >Ciao >J?rgen Welz >Edmonton, Alberta >jwelz at hotmail.com > >_________________________________________________________________ >MSN Premium includes powerful parental controls and get 2 months FREE* >http://join.msn.com/?pgmarket=en-ca&page=byoa/prem&xAPID=1994&DI=1034&SU=htt >p://hotmail.com/enca&HL=Market_MSNIS_Taglines > >-- >_______________________________________________ >AccessD mailing list >AccessD at databaseadvisors.com >http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd >Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > >-- >_______________________________________________ >AccessD mailing list >AccessD at databaseadvisors.com >http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd >Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com _________________________________________________________________ MSN Premium with Virus Guard and Firewall* from McAfee? Security : 2 months FREE* http://join.msn.com/?pgmarket=en-ca&page=byoa/prem&xAPID=1994&DI=1034&SU=http://hotmail.com/enca&HL=Market_MSNIS_Taglines From Jdemarco at hudsonhealthplan.org Wed Mar 10 09:28:35 2004 From: Jdemarco at hudsonhealthplan.org (Jim DeMarco) Date: Wed, 10 Mar 2004 10:28:35 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Combo on Continuous Form Message-ID: <22F1CCD5171D17419CB37FEEE09D5F990173FE68@TTNEXCHSRV1.hshhp.com> Mark, Why not put it in the form Header instead? Jim DeMarco -----Original Message----- From: Mark A Matte [mailto:markamatte at hotmail.com] Sent: Tuesday, March 09, 2004 9:58 PM To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: [AccessD] Combo on Continuous Form Hello, In A2k I want a combo box on a each row of the continuous form that filters by the current record on that continuous form. Suggestions anyone? Thanks, Mark _________________________________________________________________ Get business advice and resources to improve your work life, from bCentral. http://special.msn.com/bcentral/loudclear.armx -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com *********************************************************************************** "This electronic message is intended to be for the use only of the named recipient, and may contain information from Hudson Health Plan (HHP) that is confidential or privileged. If you are not the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any disclosure, copying, distribution or use of the contents of this message is strictly prohibited. If you have received this message in error or are not the named recipient, please notify us immediately, either by contacting the sender at the electronic mail address noted above or calling HHP at (914) 631-1611. If you are not the intended recipient, please do not forward this email to anyone, and delete and destroy all copies of this message. Thank You". *********************************************************************************** From rl_stewart at highstream.net Wed Mar 10 10:15:22 2004 From: rl_stewart at highstream.net (Robert L. Stewart) Date: Wed, 10 Mar 2004 10:15:22 -0600 Subject: [AccessD] Re: Combo on Continuous Form In-Reply-To: <200403101434.i2AEY7M06300@databaseadvisors.com> Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20040310101302.02ac0328@pop3.highstream.net> Mark, What are you trying to accomplish? For example: I want a combobox on each row of a subform so I can use it to open a second form with information filtered not only by the information in the subform, but also limited by my selection in the combobox. Please give use more information. Thanks Robert At 08:34 AM 3/10/2004 -0600, you wrote: >Date: Wed, 10 Mar 2004 04:42:13 +0000 >From: "Mark A Matte" >Subject: RE: [AccessD] Combo on Continuous Form >To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com >Message-ID: >Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed > >J?rgen, > >If by multiple instances...you mean same combo appearing on each >row/record...then yes...this is what I am trying to accomplish. > >Thanks, > >Mark From rsmethurst at UK.EY.COM Wed Mar 10 10:50:41 2004 From: rsmethurst at UK.EY.COM (rsmethurst at UK.EY.COM) Date: Wed, 10 Mar 2004 16:50:41 +0000 Subject: [AccessD] Chart Tooltips Message-ID: Hi All, I'm using a chart object and would like to make use of the 'series tooltip' - the one that displays when you hover over a series. The tooltip gives details about it's value and point on the graph. It seems to work in design view but not at run-time. I have no boxes around the object. TIA Ryan This e-mail and any attachment are confidential and contain proprietary information, some or all of which may be legally privileged. It is intended solely for the use of the individual or entity to which it is addressed. If you are not the intended recipient, please notify the author immediately by telephone or by replying to this e-mail, and then delete all copies of the e-mail on your system. If you are not the intended recipient, you must not use, disclose, distribute, copy, print or rely on this e-mail. Whilst we have taken reasonable precautions to ensure that this e-mail and any attachment has been checked for viruses, we cannot guarantee that they are virus free and we cannot accept liability for any damage sustained as a result of software viruses. We would advise that you carry out your own virus checks, especially before opening an attachment. The UK firm Ernst & Young LLP is a limited liability partnership registered in England and Wales with registered number OC300001 and is a member practice of Ernst & Young Global. A list of members? names is available for inspection at 1 More London Place, London, SE1 2AF, the firm?s principal place of business and its registered office. From donald.a.Mcgillivray at mail.sprint.com Wed Mar 10 10:57:07 2004 From: donald.a.Mcgillivray at mail.sprint.com (Mcgillivray, Donald [ITS]) Date: Wed, 10 Mar 2004 10:57:07 -0600 Subject: [AccessD] Framework Discussion - Questions and answers Message-ID: <6FC1C7A6E7BD5540AB0A8436713C43BF0757419D@PKDWB01C.ad.sprint.com> Yes. Thanks for the clarification! -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of John W. Colby Sent: Tuesday, March 09, 2004 7:09 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] Framework Discussion - Questions and answers Don, Initialize and Terminate are the only two built in event sinks of the class. This means that these events fire and the code in these subs run regardless of anything else. Initialize runs before anything else in the class, and Terminate runs immediately as the last pointer to the class is set to nothing. Init() and Term() are METHODS of the class, not events. They can be called by code after the class is instantiated. Because Initialize() runs before anything else occurs there is no way for us to pass parameters in to it. Init() is just a method like any other and I can specify any parameters I want, and then pass in to the class things that it routinely needs to have to function. In fact I choose the name Init, it is a method I write and I could just as easily name it JCsSpecialInitialization() if I so desired. Obviously we need standard practices so if I need to pass in parameters to a class I always use the name Init() as the function for that purpose. If I need to cleanup, and that cleanup needs to be available from outside the class, I use Term() as the function name. Typically I use Initialize to initialize things like classes and collections. For example: dim mcolControls as collection The dim simply reserves a variable for the collection, it doesn't make it useable. To do that we need a set statement: set mcolControls = new Collection. I will almost always put that set statement in the Initialize event so that a) it is always initialized b) I can go one place to find all set statements for objects in the class' header On the other hand I almost always place all of my cleanup of these objects (set mcolControls = nothing) in my term and call term from Terminate. I do that because: a) I almost always call Terminate from outside the class but... b) if for some reason the last pointer to the class is just set to nothing "accidentally" term will still run because Terminate will fire. Did all that make sense? John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Mcgillivray, Donald [ITS] Sent: Tuesday, March 09, 2004 4:03 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] Framework Discussion - Questions and answers If I may deviate from the course this thread has taken . . . ;o) John, Your classes contain Init and Term methods and in addition dclsFrm includes Class_Initialize and Class_Terminate methods. If you have covered this already, please bear with me as I struggle to get my head around the basics, but are the latter "special" methods automatically invoked whenever the class is instantiated and destroyed? If so, why not simply embed the Init and Term functionality in them and be done with it. Thanks again for the generous contribution of your time and effort to our further understanding of these concepts. This list is the greatest thanks to contributions from folks like you. Don McGillivray -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Philippe Pons Sent: Tuesday, March 09, 2004 12:18 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Framework Discussion - Questions and answers Tu lui chantes: "Voulez vous coucher avec moi, ce soir?" and the magic could occur! Philippe ----- Original Message ----- From: "Arthur Fuller" To: "'Access Developers discussion and problem solving'" Sent: Tuesday, March 09, 2004 8:51 PM Subject: RE: [AccessD] Framework Discussion - Questions and answers > How do I get Penelope Cruz to sleep with me? > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of John W. > Colby > Sent: Tuesday, March 09, 2004 3:36 AM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: [AccessD] Framework Discussion - Questions and answers > > > If anyone has any questions please feel free to post them. I will > answer to the best of my abilities. > > John W. Colby > www.ColbyConsulting.com > > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From martyconnelly at shaw.ca Wed Mar 10 11:18:30 2004 From: martyconnelly at shaw.ca (MartyConnelly) Date: Wed, 10 Mar 2004 09:18:30 -0800 Subject: [AccessD] Setting/ retrieving Field properties? References: <20040310111517.21722.qmail@web61109.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <404F4DE6.2010205@shaw.ca> Here is an example that resets all fields in all tables to allow zero length, skips around errors with on error resume next ACC: How to Set AllowZeroLength Property to Yes in All Tables http://support.microsoft.com/default.aspx?scid=kb;en-us;130336&Product=acc S D wrote: >Hi group, > >I need to set the field properties of a lot of tables. I want to do this using VBA. >I was reading Access 2000 Developers Handbook and I found the code printed below. However these are not the properties I expected. >I need to set field properties like: >Fiel Size >Required >Allow Zerow Length > >Any idea how I can do this? > >TIA > >Sander > > >Private Sub Command0_Click() > Dim db As DAO.Database > Dim intI As Integer > Dim tdf As DAO.TableDef > > Set db = CurrentDb() > > For intI = 0 To db.TableDefs.Count - 1 > Set tdf = db.TableDefs(intI) > If tdf.Name = "V3_44_RSDTD1" Then > Debug.Print "Printing properties for table: " & tdf.Name > Call ListTableProps(tdf.Name) > MsgBox "Properties listed!" > End If > Next intI > > MsgBox "Done! Tables found: " & intI > >End Sub >Sub ListTableProps(strTable As String) > Dim db As Database > Dim tdf As TableDef > Dim prp As DAO.Property > > Set db = CurrentDb() > Set tdf = db(strTable) > > For Each prp In tdf.Properties > Debug.Print prp.Name, prp.Type, prp.Value > Next prp >End Sub > > >--------------------------------- >Do you Yahoo!? >Yahoo! Search - Find what youre looking for faster. > > -- Marty Connelly Victoria, B.C. Canada From martyconnelly at shaw.ca Wed Mar 10 11:36:13 2004 From: martyconnelly at shaw.ca (MartyConnelly) Date: Wed, 10 Mar 2004 09:36:13 -0800 Subject: [AccessD] PivotTable-view not working References: Message-ID: <404F520D.50005@shaw.ca> You might get a license conflict if you have Office Web XP controls installed, but that is just a guess. Maybe do a Custom reinstall selecting everything. Michael Br?sdorf wrote: >Dear group, > >for testing purposes I installed Access 2003 on a machine that already has >Access 2000 and Access 2002 installed. >I wanted to play around with the PivotTable-view, but everytime I try to >switch to that view, an error message pops >up telling me that this feature isn't installed. > >But I could not find any options for pivoting in the setup programm. I just >installed Access 2003 and VBA from an Office 2003 Professional CDROM. >Which Office-component needs to be installed so that the pivot table view >works? > >TIA, > >Michael > > > -- Marty Connelly Victoria, B.C. Canada From rl_stewart at highstream.net Wed Mar 10 12:25:06 2004 From: rl_stewart at highstream.net (Robert L. Stewart) Date: Wed, 10 Mar 2004 12:25:06 -0600 Subject: [AccessD] Re: Setting/ retrieving Field properties? In-Reply-To: <200403101800.i2AI0DM25099@databaseadvisors.com> Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20040310122259.02a41320@pop3.highstream.net> Sander, Also, remember that a property does not exist until it has been created for the first time for a column. For example, if you have not set the default value property of a column, the default property does not exist for that column and you will have to create it before you can set it. That is why your original code did not show you what you were expecting. Robert At 12:00 PM 3/10/2004 -0600, you wrote: >Date: Wed, 10 Mar 2004 09:18:30 -0800 >From: MartyConnelly >Subject: Re: [AccessD] Setting/ retrieving Field properties? >To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > >Message-ID: <404F4DE6.2010205 at shaw.ca> >Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252; format=flowed > >Here is an example that resets all fields in all tables to allow zero >length, skips around errors with on error resume next >ACC: How to Set AllowZeroLength Property to Yes in All Tables >http://support.microsoft.com/default.aspx?scid=kb;en-us;130336&Product=acc > >S D wrote: > > >Hi group, > > > >I need to set the field properties of a lot of tables. I want to do this > using VBA. > >I was reading Access 2000 Developers Handbook and I found the code > printed below. However these are not the properties I expected. > >I need to set field properties like: > >Fiel Size > >Required > >Allow Zerow Length > > > >Any idea how I can do this? > > > >TIA > > > >Sander > > > > > >Private Sub Command0_Click() > > Dim db As DAO.Database > > Dim intI As Integer > > Dim tdf As DAO.TableDef > > > > Set db = CurrentDb() > > > > For intI = 0 To db.TableDefs.Count - 1 > > Set tdf = db.TableDefs(intI) > > If tdf.Name = "V3_44_RSDTD1" Then > > Debug.Print "Printing properties for table: " & tdf.Name > > Call ListTableProps(tdf.Name) > > MsgBox "Properties listed!" > > End If > > Next intI > > > > MsgBox "Done! Tables found: " & intI > > > >End Sub > >Sub ListTableProps(strTable As String) > > Dim db As Database > > Dim tdf As TableDef > > Dim prp As DAO.Property > > > > Set db = CurrentDb() > > Set tdf = db(strTable) > > > > For Each prp In tdf.Properties > > Debug.Print prp.Name, prp.Type, prp.Value > > Next prp > >End Sub > > From stephen at bondsoftware.co.nz Wed Mar 10 12:35:18 2004 From: stephen at bondsoftware.co.nz (Stephen Bond) Date: Thu, 11 Mar 2004 07:35:18 +1300 Subject: [AccessD] Heads up - Compacting File Resets NTFS Permissions Message-ID: <70F3D727890C784291D8433E9C418F29088690@server.bondsoftware.co.nz> "The Microsoft Jet database engine cannot open the file ''. It is already opened exclusively by another user, or you need permission to view its data." This message has caused some pain in the past - this is the first time I have seen a MS explanation. http://support.microsoft.com/default.aspx?scid=kb;EN-US;295234 Stephen Bond From pjewett at bayplace.com Wed Mar 10 12:40:01 2004 From: pjewett at bayplace.com (Phil Jewett) Date: Wed, 10 Mar 2004 10:40:01 -0800 Subject: [AccessD] RE: Your favorite control behavior Message-ID: It used to be that users would settle for an alphabetical pick list, but now they want the items in a particular order. Instead of the generic continuous form for code table maintenance, I use a list box with an entry box and two adjacent up and down buttons so the user can add items, and then reorder them to their hearts desire. Doubleclicking an item puts it back in the entry box for editing. The code table has a 'sequence' field to hold the sort ordering. From GregSmith at starband.net Wed Mar 10 13:31:35 2004 From: GregSmith at starband.net (GregSmith at starband.net) Date: Wed, 10 Mar 2004 14:31:35 -0500 (EST) Subject: [AccessD] Converting Access 97 to Access XP FE & BE In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <2332.216.43.21.235.1078947095.squirrel@cetus.email.starband.net> Hi everyone! From EdTesiny at oasas.state.ny.us Wed Mar 10 13:36:16 2004 From: EdTesiny at oasas.state.ny.us (Tesiny, Ed) Date: Wed, 10 Mar 2004 14:36:16 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Converting Access 97 to Access XP FE & BE Message-ID: Hi, back to you! Ed Tesiny EdTesiny at oasas.state.ny.us -----Original Message----- From: GregSmith at starband.net [mailto:GregSmith at starband.net] Sent: Wednesday, March 10, 2004 2:32 PM To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: [AccessD] Converting Access 97 to Access XP FE & BE Hi everyone! -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From jmhla at earthlink.net Wed Mar 10 13:43:20 2004 From: jmhla at earthlink.net (jmhla at earthlink.net) Date: Wed, 10 Mar 2004 14:43:20 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Converting Access 97 to Access XP FE & BE Message-ID: <63340-22004331019432018@M2W059.mail2web.com> yes Original Message: ----------------- From: GregSmith at starband.net Date: Wed, 10 Mar 2004 14:31:35 -0500 (EST) To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: [AccessD] Converting Access 97 to Access XP FE & BE Hi everyone! -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -------------------------------------------------------------------- mail2web - Check your email from the web at http://mail2web.com/ . From GregSmith at starband.net Wed Mar 10 13:48:13 2004 From: GregSmith at starband.net (GregSmith at starband.net) Date: Wed, 10 Mar 2004 14:48:13 -0500 (EST) Subject: [AccessD] Converting Access 97 to Access XP FE& BE In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <2350.216.43.21.235.1078948093.squirrel@cetus.email.starband.net> Hi Everyone...again. I have no clue what happened to that last message....Sometimes fast computers can be a great disadvantage...sorry 'bout that. I'm in the process of converting a rather complex Access 97 database (FE is about 8 meg, BE with data is about 500 meg) to Access XP (or 2002 if you prefer). This is also a tightly secured database, using access's security, groups, users, etc., with about 20 users for signing in. The security part isn't really an issue...MS says I can continue to use the same mdw file in 97 & XP, although I won't have some of the advantages that Jet 4 will have if I convert it. But the only way to convert the mdw file is to recreate it. Not high on my list to do that right now. Maybe later...after I find all the PID's and stuff. Not gonna go there for now... I ran the conversion from A97 to A2k to AXP on both the FE & BE. They worked without error (if you don't include the three errors for the three tables I forgot to relink...). I know that there is DAO specific code in there, and I'm sure it didn't convert all of that. Does anyone know what really needs to be converted in the VB code from DAO to ADO? I think CurrentDB() is one, and it's in there, but when I tested the converted app & data, everything seems to work just fine. However, being the suspicious type, I suspect I'm about to get ambushed by somthing in it major that won't work right. I'd much rather find out about it NOW than after they've gone live with the upgrade and my butt's hanging out in the breeze (once again...), figuratively speaking of course. Or is there somewhere on M$ or elsewhere I can go to get specifics on converting the code fully? Any help would be greatly appreciated. TIA! Greg Smith gregsmith at starband.net aka ==> weeden1949 at hotmail.com From cfoust at infostatsystems.com Wed Mar 10 15:12:18 2004 From: cfoust at infostatsystems.com (Charlotte Foust) Date: Wed, 10 Mar 2004 13:12:18 -0800 Subject: [AccessD] Converting Access 97 to Access XP FE& BE Message-ID: Unless you're planning on using ADO exclusively, DAO works just fine in XP, and you still have to fall back on DAO for somethings anyhow. XP has no problem with either CurrentDB or CurrentProject, and there is a certain basic support for both ADO and DAO built into XP even if you remove *both* the references. I recommend you go through and specifically change your declarations throughout to DAO.Recordset, DAO.Database, etc., both to remove any confusion the engine has and to make it easier to spot them in your code. There are certain objects that have the same name in both models, and without the specific declaration, Access can get them mixed up and think you're trying to use an invalid method or property. Charlotte Foust -----Original Message----- From: GregSmith at starband.net [mailto:GregSmith at starband.net] Sent: Wednesday, March 10, 2004 11:48 AM To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: [AccessD] Converting Access 97 to Access XP FE& BE Hi Everyone...again. I have no clue what happened to that last message....Sometimes fast computers can be a great disadvantage...sorry 'bout that. I'm in the process of converting a rather complex Access 97 database (FE is about 8 meg, BE with data is about 500 meg) to Access XP (or 2002 if you prefer). This is also a tightly secured database, using access's security, groups, users, etc., with about 20 users for signing in. The security part isn't really an issue...MS says I can continue to use the same mdw file in 97 & XP, although I won't have some of the advantages that Jet 4 will have if I convert it. But the only way to convert the mdw file is to recreate it. Not high on my list to do that right now. Maybe later...after I find all the PID's and stuff. Not gonna go there for now... I ran the conversion from A97 to A2k to AXP on both the FE & BE. They worked without error (if you don't include the three errors for the three tables I forgot to relink...). I know that there is DAO specific code in there, and I'm sure it didn't convert all of that. Does anyone know what really needs to be converted in the VB code from DAO to ADO? I think CurrentDB() is one, and it's in there, but when I tested the converted app & data, everything seems to work just fine. However, being the suspicious type, I suspect I'm about to get ambushed by somthing in it major that won't work right. I'd much rather find out about it NOW than after they've gone live with the upgrade and my butt's hanging out in the breeze (once again...), figuratively speaking of course. Or is there somewhere on M$ or elsewhere I can go to get specifics on converting the code fully? Any help would be greatly appreciated. TIA! Greg Smith gregsmith at starband.net aka ==> weeden1949 at hotmail.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From markamatte at hotmail.com Wed Mar 10 15:50:07 2004 From: markamatte at hotmail.com (Mark A Matte) Date: Wed, 10 Mar 2004 21:50:07 +0000 Subject: [AccessD] Combo on Continuous Form Message-ID: Because the form I'm building will be the same form for multiple products...but each product will have different attributes...and different values available depending on the product and the attribute. So the dropdown on each row will have different values...depending on what attribute is on that row. Thanks, Mark >From: "Jim DeMarco" >Reply-To: Access Developers discussion and problem >solving >To: "Access Developers discussion and problem solving" > >Subject: RE: [AccessD] Combo on Continuous Form >Date: Wed, 10 Mar 2004 10:28:35 -0500 > >Mark, > >Why not put it in the form Header instead? > >Jim DeMarco > >-----Original Message----- >From: Mark A Matte [mailto:markamatte at hotmail.com] >Sent: Tuesday, March 09, 2004 9:58 PM >To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com >Subject: [AccessD] Combo on Continuous Form > > >Hello, > >In A2k I want a combo box on a each row of the continuous form that filters >by the current record on that continuous form. Suggestions anyone? > >Thanks, > >Mark > >_________________________________________________________________ >Get business advice and resources to improve your work life, from bCentral. >http://special.msn.com/bcentral/loudclear.armx > >-- >_______________________________________________ >AccessD mailing list >AccessD at databaseadvisors.com >http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd >Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > > > >*********************************************************************************** >"This electronic message is intended to be for the use only of the named >recipient, and may contain information from Hudson Health Plan (HHP) that >is confidential or privileged. If you are not the intended recipient, you >are hereby notified that any disclosure, copying, distribution or use of >the contents of this message is strictly prohibited. If you have received >this message in error or are not the named recipient, please notify us >immediately, either by contacting the sender at the electronic mail address >noted above or calling HHP at (914) 631-1611. If you are not the intended >recipient, please do not forward this email to anyone, and delete and >destroy all copies of this message. Thank You". >*********************************************************************************** > >-- >_______________________________________________ >AccessD mailing list >AccessD at databaseadvisors.com >http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd >Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com _________________________________________________________________ FREE pop-up blocking with the new MSN Toolbar ? get it now! http://clk.atdmt.com/AVE/go/onm00200415ave/direct/01/ From my.lists at verizon.net Wed Mar 10 15:50:19 2004 From: my.lists at verizon.net (Francisco H Tapia) Date: Wed, 10 Mar 2004 13:50:19 -0800 Subject: [AccessD] Access 2000 ADP's and DataSheet views - Crosspost Message-ID: <404F8D9B.6050809@verizon.net> re-posted from the SqlServer list :) Quick questions, has anyone on the list tried to use a datasheet view form bound to a view or sproc and found that if you filter out the display (datasheet) that upon making changes to any field the datasheet looses it's Filter? Thanks, -- -Francisco From markamatte at hotmail.com Wed Mar 10 15:51:57 2004 From: markamatte at hotmail.com (Mark A Matte) Date: Wed, 10 Mar 2004 21:51:57 +0000 Subject: [AccessD] Re: Combo on Continuous Form Message-ID: Robert, My original post was: In A2k I want a combo box on a each row of the continuous form that filters by the current record on that continuous form. Suggestions anyone? Thanks, Mark >From: "Robert L. Stewart" >Reply-To: Access Developers discussion and problem >solving >To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com >CC: markamatte at hotmail.com >Subject: [AccessD] Re: Combo on Continuous Form >Date: Wed, 10 Mar 2004 10:15:22 -0600 > >Mark, > >What are you trying to accomplish? > >For example: > >I want a combobox on each row of a subform so I >can use it to open a second form with information >filtered not only by the information in the subform, >but also limited by my selection in the combobox. > >Please give use more information. > >Thanks > >Robert > >At 08:34 AM 3/10/2004 -0600, you wrote: >>Date: Wed, 10 Mar 2004 04:42:13 +0000 >>From: "Mark A Matte" >>Subject: RE: [AccessD] Combo on Continuous Form >>To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com >>Message-ID: >>Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed >> >>J?rgen, >> >>If by multiple instances...you mean same combo appearing on each >>row/record...then yes...this is what I am trying to accomplish. >> >>Thanks, >> >>Mark > > >-- >_______________________________________________ >AccessD mailing list >AccessD at databaseadvisors.com >http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd >Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com _________________________________________________________________ FREE pop-up blocking with the new MSN Toolbar ? get it now! http://clk.atdmt.com/AVE/go/onm00200415ave/direct/01/ From dwaters at usinternet.com Wed Mar 10 16:36:51 2004 From: dwaters at usinternet.com (Dan Waters) Date: Wed, 10 Mar 2004 16:36:51 -0600 Subject: [AccessD] Images on Continuous Forms or Reports Message-ID: <000501c406f0$2ff48c10$de1811d8@DanWaters> Hello to All! I have a need to display an image on a row in a continuous report. However, some rows will have an image and some won't. I know how to make that work. What I would like to be able to do is have the detail section of the report (or form) grow or shrink in accordance with the size of the image or whether or not the image exists. When I started this I assumed that the image control would have grow and shrink properties, but NO they don't! I also looked at bound and unbound object frames, but they also don't have grow and shrink properties. Can anyone point me in the right direction? Thanks! Dan Waters From bchacc at san.rr.com Wed Mar 10 16:40:34 2004 From: bchacc at san.rr.com (Rocky Smolin - Beach Access Software) Date: Wed, 10 Mar 2004 14:40:34 -0800 Subject: [AccessD] Re: Combo on Continuous Form References: Message-ID: <01a501c406f0$b380fff0$6601a8c0@HAL9002> Mark: I'd use the on current event to structure an SQL statement based on the appropriate values in the current record. The set the combo rowsource and requery the combo box. I'm assuming that if the user clicks the combo box of a record which is not the current record the OnCurrent event triggers first so the combo box row source will be reset and requeried before it drops down. Otherwise you may have to put the code into the OnClick event of the combo box, or even the GotFocus event on the theory that the user could tab into the box. But I would try the OnCurrent first. Rocky ----- Original Message ----- From: "Mark A Matte" To: Sent: Wednesday, March 10, 2004 1:51 PM Subject: RE: [AccessD] Re: Combo on Continuous Form > Robert, > > My original post was: > > In A2k I want a combo box on a each row of the continuous form that filters > by the current record on that continuous form. Suggestions anyone? > > Thanks, > > Mark > > > >From: "Robert L. Stewart" > >Reply-To: Access Developers discussion and problem > >solving > >To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com > >CC: markamatte at hotmail.com > >Subject: [AccessD] Re: Combo on Continuous Form > >Date: Wed, 10 Mar 2004 10:15:22 -0600 > > > >Mark, > > > >What are you trying to accomplish? > > > >For example: > > > >I want a combobox on each row of a subform so I > >can use it to open a second form with information > >filtered not only by the information in the subform, > >but also limited by my selection in the combobox. > > > >Please give use more information. > > > >Thanks > > > >Robert > > > >At 08:34 AM 3/10/2004 -0600, you wrote: > >>Date: Wed, 10 Mar 2004 04:42:13 +0000 > >>From: "Mark A Matte" > >>Subject: RE: [AccessD] Combo on Continuous Form > >>To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com > >>Message-ID: > >>Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed > >> > >>J?rgen, > >> > >>If by multiple instances...you mean same combo appearing on each > >>row/record...then yes...this is what I am trying to accomplish. > >> > >>Thanks, > >> > >>Mark > > > > > >-- > >_______________________________________________ > >AccessD mailing list > >AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > >http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > >Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > _________________________________________________________________ > FREE pop-up blocking with the new MSN Toolbar - get it now! > http://clk.atdmt.com/AVE/go/onm00200415ave/direct/01/ > > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > From ssharkins at bellsouth.net Wed Mar 10 16:46:15 2004 From: ssharkins at bellsouth.net (Susan Harkins) Date: Wed, 10 Mar 2004 17:46:15 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Re: Combo on Continuous Form In-Reply-To: <01a501c406f0$b380fff0$6601a8c0@HAL9002> Message-ID: <20040310224622.WQXB18468.imf24aec.mail.bellsouth.net@SUSANONE> The Current would filter each time he tabbed into that control, which might become a nuissance after awhile, but would be quite cool if that's what he's actually after. Susan H. Mark: I'd use the on current event to structure an SQL statement based on the appropriate values in the current record. The set the combo rowsource and requery the combo box. I'm assuming that if the user clicks the combo box of a record which is not the current record the OnCurrent event triggers first so the combo box row source will be reset and requeried before it drops down. Otherwise you may have to put the code into the OnClick event of the combo box, or even the GotFocus event on the theory that the user could tab into the box. But I would try the OnCurrent first. From jwelz at hotmail.com Wed Mar 10 16:54:17 2004 From: jwelz at hotmail.com (Jürgen Welz) Date: Wed, 10 Mar 2004 15:54:17 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] Re: Combo on Continuous Form Message-ID: I have used a textbox over a combo and hidden the textbox by running a procedure on the got focus to the combo behind and used a sql source for the combo that referenced a textbox on the current row as a filter. I was sure I had seen another method but have not found it. The concept of using a selector combo in the continuous form header as suggested by others works well. In that case you requery the combo when the control in the record displaying the value selected from the combo when the value was set takes focus. In the after update of the combo, update the current record. The problem with doing it by hiding and unhiding a bound textbox in front of the combo on each row is that setting the row source of the combo for one row sets it for all rows and unhides the covering textbox on all rows as well. Thus it appears like the wrong value is in each row whicle the combo has the focus. As soon as the lost focus of the combo fired, the textbox visibility was restored and each record showed the correct selection again. The way I used it was there was a parent form which held an Estimate record. I could associate a variety of contractors to whom we were submitting a bid by adding them to a continuous sub form. In each row of the contractor records was a combo of all the contacts with that particular contractor. In other words, the combo was filtered on the ContractorID for Contacts. When a user clicked in a row, the rowsource for the combo now referenced the current ContractorID but I didn't requery the combo until it received focus. Before moving to unbound continuous subforms (when John Colby saw my early unbound continous years ago, he said my code was unmaintainable), this was no way in which I've succeeded in making this work in a manner that had no obvious glitches (like the other rows showing the wrong combo when the bound textbox in front got focus.) I have a database that uses the original method I posted, with a textbox in front of a combo, on a computer at an office I'll be visiting on Friday. The original code was probably written in '98 and I haven't udated it since. It is the simplest way I know to do this even if it isn't perfect. The continuous form recordsource must join the table displaying the values you want displayed in the textbox cum combo hide/unhide in order to work. If you want, I can probably zip a small demo showing that approach on Friday and you can decide if it is workable for you. I have tried other methods but failed because there is no ability to hook the scroll bar to determine a row for the purpose of floating a form control over the continous form combo. Ciao J?rgen Welz Edmonton, Alberta jwelz at hotmail.com >From: "Mark A Matte" >Reply-To: Access Developers discussion and problem >solving >To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com >Subject: RE: [AccessD] Re: Combo on Continuous Form >Date: Wed, 10 Mar 2004 21:51:57 +0000 >MIME-Version: 1.0 >X-Originating-IP: [198.179.147.18] >X-Originating-Email: [markamatte at hotmail.com] >X-Sender: markamatte at hotmail.com >Received: from mc3-f33.hotmail.com ([64.4.50.169]) by mc3-s12.hotmail.com >with Microsoft SMTPSVC(5.0.2195.6824); Wed, 10 Mar 2004 13:55:09 -0800 >Received: from databaseadvisors.com ([209.135.140.44]) by >mc3-f33.hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC(5.0.2195.6824); Wed, 10 Mar 2004 >13:54:20 -0800 >Received: from databaseadvisors.com (databaseadvisors.com >[209.135.140.44])by databaseadvisors.com (8.11.6/8.11.6) with ESMTP id >i2ALq0M16312;Wed, 10 Mar 2004 15:52:00 -0600 >Received: from hotmail.com (bay1-f67.bay1.hotmail.com [65.54.245.67])by >databaseadvisors.com (8.11.6/8.11.6) with ESMTP id i2ALptM16215for >; Wed, 10 Mar 2004 15:51:55 -0600 >Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft >SMTPSVC;Wed, 10 Mar 2004 13:51:58 -0800 >Received: from 198.179.147.18 by by1fd.bay1.hotmail.msn.com with HTTP;Wed, >10 Mar 2004 21:51:57 GMT >X-Message-Info: jl7Vrt/mfsqwkfPxX/ZB8/QWiwG/Wg9+ >Message-ID: >X-OriginalArrivalTime: 10 Mar 2004 21:51:58.0056 >(UTC)FILETIME=[E910DE80:01C406E9] >X-BeenThere: accessd at databaseadvisors.com >X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.4 >Precedence: list >List-Id: Access Developers discussion and problem >solving >List-Help: >List-Post: >List-Subscribe: >, >List-Archive: >List-Unsubscribe: >, >Errors-To: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com >Return-Path: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > >Robert, > >My original post was: > >In A2k I want a combo box on a each row of the continuous form that filters >by the current record on that continuous form. Suggestions anyone? > >Thanks, > >Mark > > >>From: "Robert L. Stewart" >>Reply-To: Access Developers discussion and problem >>solving >>To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com >>CC: markamatte at hotmail.com >>Subject: [AccessD] Re: Combo on Continuous Form >>Date: Wed, 10 Mar 2004 10:15:22 -0600 >> >>Mark, >> >>What are you trying to accomplish? >> >>For example: >> >>I want a combobox on each row of a subform so I >>can use it to open a second form with information >>filtered not only by the information in the subform, >>but also limited by my selection in the combobox. >> >>Please give use more information. >> >>Thanks >> >>Robert >> >>At 08:34 AM 3/10/2004 -0600, you wrote: >>>Date: Wed, 10 Mar 2004 04:42:13 +0000 >>>From: "Mark A Matte" >>>Subject: RE: [AccessD] Combo on Continuous Form >>>To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com >>>Message-ID: >>>Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed >>> >>>J?rgen, >>> >>>If by multiple instances...you mean same combo appearing on each >>>row/record...then yes...this is what I am trying to accomplish. >>> >>>Thanks, >>> >>>Mark >> >> >>-- >>_______________________________________________ >>AccessD mailing list >>AccessD at databaseadvisors.com >>http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd >>Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > >_________________________________________________________________ >FREE pop-up blocking with the new MSN Toolbar ? get it now! >http://clk.atdmt.com/AVE/go/onm00200415ave/direct/01/ > >-- >_______________________________________________ >AccessD mailing list >AccessD at databaseadvisors.com >http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd >Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com _________________________________________________________________ Add photos to your messages with MSN Premium. Get 2 months FREE* http://join.msn.com/?pgmarket=en-ca&page=byoa/prem&xAPID=1994&DI=1034&SU=http://hotmail.com/enca&HL=Market_MSNIS_Taglines From d.dick at uws.edu.au Wed Mar 10 17:34:51 2004 From: d.dick at uws.edu.au (Darren DICK) Date: Thu, 11 Mar 2004 10:34:51 +1100 Subject: [AccessD] Images on Continuous Forms or Reports References: <000501c406f0$2ff48c10$de1811d8@DanWaters> Message-ID: <008601c406f8$48aeae40$48619a89@DDICK> HI Dan Haven't done this but try something like this Have the image control sizes virtually invisible eg Width = 1 Height =1 Then for each row that has the image visible try something like (Testing only for a value in the phone number field (at Table Level not control level) of a contacts database) Private Sub Detail_Format(Cancel As Integer, FormatCount As Integer) If IsNull(Me.PhoneNumber) Then Me.Image0.Visible = False Me.Image0.Height = 1 Me.Image0.Width = 1 Else Me.Image0.Visible = True Me.Image0.Height = 200 Me.Image0.Width = 200 End If End Sub Hope this helps and works Darren ----- Original Message ----- From: "Dan Waters" To: "Database Advisors" Sent: Thursday, March 11, 2004 9:36 AM Subject: [AccessD] Images on Continuous Forms or Reports > Hello to All! > > > > I have a need to display an image on a row in a continuous report. However, > some rows will have an image and some won't. I know how to make that work. > > > > What I would like to be able to do is have the detail section of the report > (or form) grow or shrink in accordance with the size of the image or whether > or not the image exists. When I started this I assumed that the image > control would have grow and shrink properties, but NO they don't! > > > > I also looked at bound and unbound object frames, but they also don't have > grow and shrink properties. > > > > Can anyone point me in the right direction? > > > > Thanks! > > Dan Waters > > > > > > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From d.dick at uws.edu.au Wed Mar 10 17:42:03 2004 From: d.dick at uws.edu.au (Darren DICK) Date: Thu, 11 Mar 2004 10:42:03 +1100 Subject: Fw: [AccessD] Images on Continuous Forms or Reports Message-ID: <009401c406f9$4a18f730$48619a89@DDICK> Hi Dan Taking this to the next level. You can determine what picture to show based on criteria. Try testing for the existence of the left brack on the phone number field as in (123) 1234 5678 and then displaying an image. If no bracket as in 1234 5678 then display the standard image eg I forgot to mention have the Image default properties set to Invisible (Visible = false) Private Sub Detail_Format(Cancel As Integer, FormatCount As Integer) If IsNull(Me.PhoneNumber) Then Me.Image0.Visible = False Me.Image0.Height = 2 Me.Image0.Width = 2 Else Me.Image0.Visible = True If Left(Me.PhoneNumber, 1) = "(" Then Me.Image0.Picture = "C:\Image1.jpg" Else Me.Image0.Picture = "C:\Image2.jpg" End If Me.Image0.Height = 200 Me.Image0.Width = 200 End If End Sub ----- Original Message ----- From: "Darren DICK" To: "Access Developers discussion and problem solving" Sent: Thursday, March 11, 2004 10:34 AM Subject: Re: [AccessD] Images on Continuous Forms or Reports > HI Dan > Haven't done this but try something like this > Have the image control sizes virtually invisible > eg Width = 1 Height =1 > Then for each row that has the image visible try something like > (Testing only for a value in the phone number field (at Table Level not control level) of a contacts database) > > Private Sub Detail_Format(Cancel As Integer, FormatCount As Integer) > If IsNull(Me.PhoneNumber) Then > Me.Image0.Visible = False > Me.Image0.Height = 1 > Me.Image0.Width = 1 > Else > Me.Image0.Visible = True > Me.Image0.Height = 200 > Me.Image0.Width = 200 > End If > > End Sub > > Hope this helps and works > > Darren > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Dan Waters" > To: "Database Advisors" > Sent: Thursday, March 11, 2004 9:36 AM > Subject: [AccessD] Images on Continuous Forms or Reports > > > > Hello to All! > > > > > > > > I have a need to display an image on a row in a continuous report. However, > > some rows will have an image and some won't. I know how to make that work. > > > > > > > > What I would like to be able to do is have the detail section of the report > > (or form) grow or shrink in accordance with the size of the image or whether > > or not the image exists. When I started this I assumed that the image > > control would have grow and shrink properties, but NO they don't! > > > > > > > > I also looked at bound and unbound object frames, but they also don't have > > grow and shrink properties. > > > > > > > > Can anyone point me in the right direction? > > > > > > > > Thanks! > > > > Dan Waters > > > > > > > > > > > > -- > > _______________________________________________ > > AccessD mailing list > > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From KIsmert at TexasSystems.com Wed Mar 10 20:10:51 2004 From: KIsmert at TexasSystems.com (Ken Ismert) Date: Wed, 10 Mar 2004 20:10:51 -0600 Subject: [AccessD] Framework Discussion - Who's following this In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <005201c4070e$14499640$2a3ca8c0@TEXASSYSTEMS.COM> John, >Yea... in a perfect world. Unfortunately for most of us a framework is not >a project which we spec out and write, but rather a living entity that we >add functionality to on a weekly basis. Thus feature bloat is an inherent >part of doing business, and there is never a finish, much less a timely one! Evolution is a valid development method, especially when the path ahead is not clear. I often find, though, that doing an informal design using pencil and paper saves time. It helps separate needs from wants. Do I really need 3-D animated text on my Message Box replacement? It may be vital, but if it isn't, leave it out for now. Of course, a framework implies an organization of function. So, how do we organize a constantly changing function set? By providing standard methods of extending the framework. Careful design here can have an enormous payoff. This is where interfaces can play a role. > ... I think it is important to NEVER accept the limitations of your >platform. Much of what my framework does is nothing more than an attempt by >me to program around the limitations of Access ... Removing arbitrary limits is a worthy pursuit. Don't like the [Forms]![Form]![Control] method of synchronization? Replace it with your own global parameter collection. Want to enforce standard behavior for ComboBox NotInList events? Write an event-sinking class that provides that functionality. All good. The tools of object programming and abstraction give us ample power to work around such limitations. It gets a little trickier when dealing with the platform's warts, like not automatically terminating an out-of-process object. Here, limits can't be satisfactorily removed, and the best we can offer is workarounds and advice. There are certain things the platform will never do gracefully. I tend to draw the line at fixes/extensions that involve: * Risky VB programming practices (handling Object pointers as longs, LSet abuse, etc.) * Extensive use of the Windows API. Just way out of my field of expertise. Should be delivered as a .DLL, anyway. * Reliance on version-specific quirks or bugs * Undocumented features (although some, like Decompile, are essential) -Ken Biedermeier - a German furniture style of the early-to-mid 19th century. A break from the highly decorative styles which preceded it, Biedermeier emphasized durable construction, the intrinsic beauty of the wood, restrained decoration, and simplicity of design. Some of the pieces belonging to this style have a very modern look to them. From jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com Wed Mar 10 21:37:58 2004 From: jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com (John W. Colby) Date: Wed, 10 Mar 2004 22:37:58 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Framework Discussion - Who's following this In-Reply-To: <005201c4070e$14499640$2a3ca8c0@TEXASSYSTEMS.COM> Message-ID: >Evolution is a valid development method, especially when the path ahead is not clear. I often find, though, that doing an informal design using pencil and paper saves time. It helps separate needs from wants. Do I really need 3-D animated text on my Message Box replacement? It may be vital, but if it isn't, leave it out for now. Which is part of the goal of this discussion. I would love to assist our members in avoiding what I went through! I learned about frameworks by using the toolboxes that Borland provided back in the mid to late 80s when they were trying to promote Turbo Pascal. I did not truly understand the concept, I just used the toolboxes. Of course back then Turbo Pascal didn't have OO, but once it did, suddenly the concepts behind a framework became a little clearer as I studied OO, inheritance, subclassing, and all that stuff. Then came Access with objects, methods and properties but strangely... no inheritance. 8-( Sigh. I was so busy trying to absorb the Windows / Access methodology - events, drag and drop design, code behind forms etc - that I kind of lost site of the framework concept and simply designed a library. Eventually as I added functionality to the library I realized that I was designing stuff that was generic enough to be reusable, and slowly a VERY crude framework just started emerging from the muck. Unfortunately I didn't understand classes and indeed had never even heard of Withevents so I did things like collections storing collections keyed on form names containing pointers to controls... Really messy stuff, but as I said I didn't understand classes; and it worked but REALLY MESSY. Then a certain Russian gentleman who shall remain unnamed - well ok, it was Shamil Salakhetdinov (shamil at smsconsulting.spb.ru) - started popping up in AccessD and dropping little tidbits and teasers about Withevents. Even with years of programming and indeed years of Access, for some reason it took me three tries across a 1.5 year period of time to finally understand Withevents, and Withevents gave me a reason to use classes so I had to learn them. Once I had a "good grip" on those two technologies (and I use "good grip" loosely), I launched into a redesign of my original "framework" (which I use VERY loosely), eventually building C2DbFWA2K which is my current framework. It is heavily class and Withevent based. Unfortunately as we all know, if we are going to grow we are going to do things that simply don't make sense in the light of what we know today. My 2nd generation framework does things I wouldn't do today and I think it will be worthwhile to do a third generation. Furthermore I'm beginning to see how some of this stuff could port rather nicely to .net! This discussion allows me to do a design while "talking out" the design concepts with a group of developers many of whom are more experienced than I am. IF I can get those developers to pipe up and tell me when I am doing stupid stuff, this third generation framework may be a solid piece of work. Not that my last one wasn't, I am quite proud of what it does, but it can be much better. And finally, this discussion allows me to encourage a whole group of "youngsters and not so youngsters" who have not ventured in to these waters to do so. I think I (or hopefully WE) can save some of our group members a lot of pain that they don't need to experience. Classes, Withevents and Frameworks are subjects that are just very difficult to find information on, at least in the Access environment, yet are technologies that once understood completely changed the way I develop applications. It would be nice to get a strong core of our members using this stuff for the very selfish reason that then I will have others to bang ideas off of and "borrow" ideas from! John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Ken Ismert Sent: Wednesday, March 10, 2004 9:11 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: [AccessD] Framework Discussion - Who's following this John, >Yea... in a perfect world. Unfortunately for most of us a framework is not >a project which we spec out and write, but rather a living entity that we >add functionality to on a weekly basis. Thus feature bloat is an inherent >part of doing business, and there is never a finish, much less a timely one! Evolution is a valid development method, especially when the path ahead is not clear. I often find, though, that doing an informal design using pencil and paper saves time. It helps separate needs from wants. Do I really need 3-D animated text on my Message Box replacement? It may be vital, but if it isn't, leave it out for now. Of course, a framework implies an organization of function. So, how do we organize a constantly changing function set? By providing standard methods of extending the framework. Careful design here can have an enormous payoff. This is where interfaces can play a role. > ... I think it is important to NEVER accept the limitations of your >platform. Much of what my framework does is nothing more than an attempt by >me to program around the limitations of Access ... Removing arbitrary limits is a worthy pursuit. Don't like the [Forms]![Form]![Control] method of synchronization? Replace it with your own global parameter collection. Want to enforce standard behavior for ComboBox NotInList events? Write an event-sinking class that provides that functionality. All good. The tools of object programming and abstraction give us ample power to work around such limitations. It gets a little trickier when dealing with the platform's warts, like not automatically terminating an out-of-process object. Here, limits can't be satisfactorily removed, and the best we can offer is workarounds and advice. There are certain things the platform will never do gracefully. I tend to draw the line at fixes/extensions that involve: * Risky VB programming practices (handling Object pointers as longs, LSet abuse, etc.) * Extensive use of the Windows API. Just way out of my field of expertise. Should be delivered as a .DLL, anyway. * Reliance on version-specific quirks or bugs * Undocumented features (although some, like Decompile, are essential) -Ken Biedermeier - a German furniture style of the early-to-mid 19th century. A break from the highly decorative styles which preceded it, Biedermeier emphasized durable construction, the intrinsic beauty of the wood, restrained decoration, and simplicity of design. Some of the pieces belonging to this style have a very modern look to them. -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From GregSmith at starband.net Wed Mar 10 22:30:36 2004 From: GregSmith at starband.net (Greg Smith) Date: Wed, 10 Mar 2004 22:30:36 -0600 Subject: [AccessD] Converting Access 97 to Access XP FE& BE In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <200403110419.i2B4JJi9022026@osiris.email.starband.net> Thanks Charlotte. I have Speed Ferret and will use that to find all instances. Greg Smith -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Charlotte Foust Sent: Wednesday, March 10, 2004 3:12 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] Converting Access 97 to Access XP FE& BE Unless you're planning on using ADO exclusively, DAO works just fine in XP, and you still have to fall back on DAO for somethings anyhow. XP has no problem with either CurrentDB or CurrentProject, and there is a certain basic support for both ADO and DAO built into XP even if you remove *both* the references. I recommend you go through and specifically change your declarations throughout to DAO.Recordset, DAO.Database, etc., both to remove any confusion the engine has and to make it easier to spot them in your code. There are certain objects that have the same name in both models, and without the specific declaration, Access can get them mixed up and think you're trying to use an invalid method or property. Charlotte Foust -----Original Message----- From: GregSmith at starband.net [mailto:GregSmith at starband.net] Sent: Wednesday, March 10, 2004 11:48 AM To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: [AccessD] Converting Access 97 to Access XP FE& BE Hi Everyone...again. I have no clue what happened to that last message....Sometimes fast computers can be a great disadvantage...sorry 'bout that. I'm in the process of converting a rather complex Access 97 database (FE is about 8 meg, BE with data is about 500 meg) to Access XP (or 2002 if you prefer). This is also a tightly secured database, using access's From jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com Wed Mar 10 22:43:29 2004 From: jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com (John W. Colby) Date: Wed, 10 Mar 2004 23:43:29 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] ParamArray problem Message-ID: I am doing an init() method of a class that looks like: Public Sub Init(ByRef robjParent As Object, ParamArray lDepObjsArr() As Variant) where robjParent = a pointer to the parent class (ME) and ParamArray lDepObjsArr() As Variant MAY BE an array of dependent object classes but specifically at the moment isn't being passed anything. I.e. the calling function looks like MyClass.Init me I am passing in a pointer to self in the first parameter and nothing at all for the array. Since it is an array that can contain variable number of objects I expected it to allow this. However when I get inside the init() the lDepObjsArr has something in it. That something is NOT a class, and I can't debug.print the value... What the heck is going on here? Can I not do this (not pass anything to a paramarray? John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com From stuart at lexacorp.com.pg Wed Mar 10 23:00:19 2004 From: stuart at lexacorp.com.pg (Stuart McLachlan) Date: Thu, 11 Mar 2004 15:00:19 +1000 Subject: [AccessD] ParamArray problem In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <40507F03.10953.19DE362@localhost> On 10 Mar 2004 at 23:43, John W. Colby wrote: > What the heck is going on here? Can I not do this (not pass anything to a > paramarray? > You can, but the way to check for an empty ParamArray is not obvious: "To detect an empty ParamArray, test to see if the array?s upper bound is less than its lower bound." -- Lexacorp Ltd http://www.lexacorp.com.pg Information Technology Consultancy, Software Development,System Support. From bruce_bruen at mlc.com.au Wed Mar 10 22:58:06 2004 From: bruce_bruen at mlc.com.au (bruce_bruen at mlc.com.au) Date: Thu, 11 Mar 2004 15:58:06 +1100 Subject: [AccessD] ParamArray problem Message-ID: John, What you've written it looks right, bu I must ask how do you know there is "something" in the ParamArray? I would not expect it to be equal to a null, it is (I can remember which) actually a stack or heap pointer. I also seem to remember that passing objects in paramarrays is a nono you can only pass value items (???) , but its been months since I've VBA'd so to speak so I could be wrong on that. ...meanwhile back to the C# hth Bruce "John W. Colby" com> cc: Sent by: Subject: [AccessD] ParamArray problem accessd-bounces at databasea dvisors.com 11/03/2004 15:43 Please respond to Access Developers discussion and problem solving I am doing an init() method of a class that looks like: Public Sub Init(ByRef robjParent As Object, ParamArray lDepObjsArr() As Variant) where robjParent = a pointer to the parent class (ME) and ParamArray lDepObjsArr() As Variant MAY BE an array of dependent object classes but specifically at the moment isn't being passed anything. I.e. the calling function looks like MyClass.Init me I am passing in a pointer to self in the first parameter and nothing at all for the array. Since it is an array that can contain variable number of objects I expected it to allow this. However when I get inside the init() the lDepObjsArr has something in it. That something is NOT a class, and I can't debug.print the value... What the heck is going on here? Can I not do this (not pass anything to a paramarray? John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com Wed Mar 10 23:11:22 2004 From: jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com (John W. Colby) Date: Thu, 11 Mar 2004 00:11:22 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] DependentObjects class Message-ID: I am working on a dependentobjects class, i.e. a class with a collection which holds objects (classes) where the control or form is dependent on the current control. Combo A changes. Combo B uses Combo A to filter itself. Combo B is "dependent" on combo A and must be requeried whenever Combo A changes. There is a case where two combos on a form may display data from the same table. For example two combos both display cities from the cities lookup table. If Combo A NotInList adds a new city. Combo B needs to requery in order to display that new city if necessary. However if Combo B adds the city, then Combo A needs to requery. Obviously if we add combo A to combo B's DependentObject collection and we add Combo B to Combo A's dependent object collection, then we start an endless loop where A requeries B which requeries A which requeries B... This is a case where I programmed a solution working but it was ugly. How would you solve this problem? John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com From jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com Wed Mar 10 23:14:31 2004 From: jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com (John W. Colby) Date: Thu, 11 Mar 2004 00:14:31 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] ParamArray problem In-Reply-To: <40507F03.10953.19DE362@localhost> Message-ID: But why is there "something in there"? I am not passing anything. However Dim Obj As Variant For Each Obj In mcolDepObj Obj.Requery Next Obj performs an obj.requery even though the array is "empty", i.e I haven't passed anything in yet. John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Stuart McLachlan Sent: Thursday, March 11, 2004 12:00 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problemsolving Subject: Re: [AccessD] ParamArray problem On 10 Mar 2004 at 23:43, John W. Colby wrote: > What the heck is going on here? Can I not do this (not pass anything to a > paramarray? > You can, but the way to check for an empty ParamArray is not obvious: "To detect an empty ParamArray, test to see if the array?s upper bound is less than its lower bound." -- Lexacorp Ltd http://www.lexacorp.com.pg Information Technology Consultancy, Software Development,System Support. -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com Wed Mar 10 23:17:54 2004 From: jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com (John W. Colby) Date: Thu, 11 Mar 2004 00:17:54 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] ParamArray problem In-Reply-To: Message-ID: >I also seem to remember that passing objects in paramarrays is a nono you can only pass value items (???) Help says objects can be passed, or at least the array can be declared as type object. And I was using a "for each next" to iterate the array and found something in an "empty" array. John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of bruce_bruen at mlc.com.au Sent: Wednesday, March 10, 2004 11:58 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] ParamArray problem John, What you've written it looks right, bu I must ask how do you know there is "something" in the ParamArray? I would not expect it to be equal to a null, it is (I can remember which) actually a stack or heap pointer. I also seem to remember that passing objects in paramarrays is a nono you can only pass value items (???) , but its been months since I've VBA'd so to speak so I could be wrong on that. ...meanwhile back to the C# hth Bruce "John W. Colby" com> cc: Sent by: Subject: [AccessD] ParamArray problem accessd-bounces at databasea dvisors.com 11/03/2004 15:43 Please respond to Access Developers discussion and problem solving I am doing an init() method of a class that looks like: Public Sub Init(ByRef robjParent As Object, ParamArray lDepObjsArr() As Variant) where robjParent = a pointer to the parent class (ME) and ParamArray lDepObjsArr() As Variant MAY BE an array of dependent object classes but specifically at the moment isn't being passed anything. I.e. the calling function looks like MyClass.Init me I am passing in a pointer to self in the first parameter and nothing at all for the array. Since it is an array that can contain variable number of objects I expected it to allow this. However when I get inside the init() the lDepObjsArr has something in it. That something is NOT a class, and I can't debug.print the value... What the heck is going on here? Can I not do this (not pass anything to a paramarray? John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From bruce_bruen at mlc.com.au Wed Mar 10 23:39:31 2004 From: bruce_bruen at mlc.com.au (bruce_bruen at mlc.com.au) Date: Thu, 11 Mar 2004 16:39:31 +1100 Subject: [AccessD] ParamArray problem Message-ID: >"for each next" to iterate the array and found something in an "empty" array." Now that does sound strange. The VB help for .NET certainly says that FOREACH should not execute on a paramarray with .length=0 However, prior to .NET all paramarrays were passed as byrefs (hence my comment on them being heap pointers) in .NET they are always byvals. Looks like there may be a situation in the VBA where the pointer is initialised to a "random" heap pointer under some circumstances - that would be bloody great hole! have fun B "John W. Colby" Sent by: cc: accessd-bounces at databasea Subject: RE: [AccessD] ParamArray problem dvisors.com 11/03/2004 16:17 Please respond to Access Developers discussion and problem solving >I also seem to remember that passing objects in paramarrays is a nono you can only pass value items (???) Help says objects can be passed, or at least the array can be declared as type object. And I was using a "for each next" to iterate the array and found something in an "empty" array. John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of bruce_bruen at mlc.com.au Sent: Wednesday, March 10, 2004 11:58 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] ParamArray problem John, What you've written it looks right, bu I must ask how do you know there is "something" in the ParamArray? I would not expect it to be equal to a null, it is (I can remember which) actually a stack or heap pointer. I also seem to remember that passing objects in paramarrays is a nono you can only pass value items (???) , but its been months since I've VBA'd so to speak so I could be wrong on that. ...meanwhile back to the C# hth Bruce "John W. Colby" com> cc: Sent by: Subject: [AccessD] ParamArray problem accessd-bounces at databasea dvisors.com 11/03/2004 15:43 Please respond to Access Developers discussion and problem solving I am doing an init() method of a class that looks like: Public Sub Init(ByRef robjParent As Object, ParamArray lDepObjsArr() As Variant) where robjParent = a pointer to the parent class (ME) and ParamArray lDepObjsArr() As Variant MAY BE an array of dependent object classes but specifically at the moment isn't being passed anything. I.e. the calling function looks like MyClass.Init me I am passing in a pointer to self in the first parameter and nothing at all for the array. Since it is an array that can contain variable number of objects I expected it to allow this. However when I get inside the init() the lDepObjsArr has something in it. That something is NOT a class, and I can't debug.print the value... What the heck is going on here? Can I not do this (not pass anything to a paramarray? John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From stuart at lexacorp.com.pg Wed Mar 10 23:39:38 2004 From: stuart at lexacorp.com.pg (Stuart McLachlan) Date: Thu, 11 Mar 2004 15:39:38 +1000 Subject: [AccessD] DependentObjects class In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <4050883A.7227.1C1E18E@localhost> On 11 Mar 2004 at 0:11, John W. Colby wrote: > I am working on a dependentobjects class, i.e. a class with a collection > which holds objects (classes) where the control or form is dependent on the > current control. Combo A changes. Combo B uses Combo A to filter itself. > Combo B is "dependent" on combo A and must be requeried whenever Combo A > changes. > > This is a case where I programmed a solution working but it was ugly. How > would you solve this problem? > I doubt if I would do it with a class. It's not *that* common a requirement and there are so many different ways that you can end up with circular references, CtlA - CtlB - CtlC - CtlD...... CtlX - CtlC etc that trying to allow for them would end up with such code bolat that the whole thing became inefficient. -- Lexacorp Ltd http://www.lexacorp.com.pg Information Technology Consultancy, Software Development,System Support. From jwelz at hotmail.com Thu Mar 11 00:05:12 2004 From: jwelz at hotmail.com (Jürgen Welz) Date: Wed, 10 Mar 2004 23:05:12 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] ParamArray problem Message-ID: In .NET, if you pass an object ByVal, it is still passed ByRef. No error or notification. It just changes it. Haven't looked into the Paramarray question as I've always passed arrays of strong types or of variants. Ciao J?rgen Welz Edmonton, Alberta jwelz at hotmail.com >From: bruce_bruen at mlc.com.au > > > > > > >"for each next" to iterate the array and found something >in an "empty" array." > >Now that does sound strange. > >The VB help for .NET certainly says that FOREACH should not execute on a >paramarray with .length=0 >However, prior to .NET all paramarrays were passed as byrefs (hence my >comment on them being heap pointers) in .NET they are always byvals. > >Looks like there may be a situation in the VBA where the pointer is >initialised to a "random" heap pointer >under some circumstances - that would be bloody great hole! > >have fun >B > > > > "John W. Colby" > > > > > > >I also seem to remember that passing objects in paramarrays is a nono you >can only pass value items (???) > >Help says objects can be passed, or at least the array can be declared as >type object. > >And I was using a "for each next" to iterate the array and found something >in an "empty" array. > >John W. Colby >www.ColbyConsulting.com > >-----Original Message----- >From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com >[mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of >bruce_bruen at mlc.com.au >Sent: Wednesday, March 10, 2004 11:58 PM >To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving >Subject: Re: [AccessD] ParamArray problem > > > > > > >John, > >What you've written it looks right, bu I must ask how do you know there is >"something" in the ParamArray? I would not expect it to be equal to a >null, it is (I can remember which) actually a stack or heap pointer. I >also seem to remember that passing objects in paramarrays is a nono you can >only pass value items (???) , but its been months since I've VBA'd so to >speak so I could be wrong on that. > > >...meanwhile back to the C# > >hth >Bruce > > > > "John W. Colby" > > com> cc: > Sent by: Subject: [AccessD] >ParamArray problem > accessd-bounces at databasea > dvisors.com > > > 11/03/2004 15:43 > Please respond to Access > Developers discussion and > problem solving > > > > > > >I am doing an init() method of a class that looks like: > >Public Sub Init(ByRef robjParent As Object, ParamArray lDepObjsArr() As >Variant) > >where robjParent = a pointer to the parent class (ME) > >and ParamArray lDepObjsArr() As Variant MAY BE an array of dependent object >classes but specifically at the moment isn't being passed anything. I.e. >the calling function looks like > >MyClass.Init me > >I am passing in a pointer to self in the first parameter and nothing at all >for the array. > >Since it is an array that can contain variable number of objects I expected >it to allow this. However when I get inside the init() the lDepObjsArr has >something in it. That something is NOT a class, and I can't debug.print >the >value... > >What the heck is going on here? Can I not do this (not pass anything to a >paramarray? > >John W. Colby >www.ColbyConsulting.com _________________________________________________________________ STOP MORE SPAM with the MSN Premium and get 2 months FREE* http://join.msn.com/?pgmarket=en-ca&page=byoa/prem&xAPID=1994&DI=1034&SU=http://hotmail.com/enca&HL=Market_MSNIS_Taglines From jwelz at hotmail.com Thu Mar 11 00:56:53 2004 From: jwelz at hotmail.com (Jürgen Welz) Date: Wed, 10 Mar 2004 23:56:53 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] DependentObjects class Message-ID: I don't like using control tags to hold temporary data and they lack persistence as well, so I'd append a property to the each form containing the combos. When one updated, it would set its own property to the current time. If the dependent control property is older by more than 3 seconds (how often are users going to change two separate combo entries more quickly than 3 seconds apart?), requery it and in either event, update the dependant's property. I'd use a property that used the name of the control with a suffix like "Time". I use a form property in the name of each control to hold a security long of paired bit flags (edit, add, read, hidden). To append a date property: Sub ctlprop() Dim prp As Property Set prp = CurrentDb.Containers("forms")"frm1").CreateProperty("cboCityTime", dbDate, Now) CurrentDb.Containers("forms")("frm1").Properties.Append prp CurrentDb.Containers("forms")("frm1).Properties.Refresh End Sub Once the property has been created, your code can set and read it. CurrentDb.Containers("forms")("frm1").Properties("cboCityTime") = Now dteVariable = CurrentDb.Containers("forms")("frm1").Properties("cboCityTime") You can create a reference as in the procedure in which it was created and just set the variable: Dim prp As Property Dim db As Database Set db = CurrentDb Set prp = db.Containers("forms").Documents(1).Properties("cboCityTime") MsgBox prp Ciao J?rgen Welz Edmonton, Alberta jwelz at hotmail.com >From: "John W. Colby" > >I am working on a dependentobjects class, i.e. a class with a collection >which holds objects (classes) where the control or form is dependent on the >current control. Combo A changes. Combo B uses Combo A to filter itself. >Combo B is "dependent" on combo A and must be requeried whenever Combo A >changes. > >There is a case where two combos on a form may display data from the same >table. For example two combos both display cities from the cities lookup >table. If Combo A NotInList adds a new city. Combo B needs to requery in >order to display that new city if necessary. However if Combo B adds the >city, then Combo A needs to requery. > >Obviously if we add combo A to combo B's DependentObject collection and we >add Combo B to Combo A's dependent object collection, then we start an >endless loop where A requeries B which requeries A which requeries B... > >This is a case where I programmed a solution working but it was ugly. How >would you solve this problem? > >John W. Colby >www.ColbyConsulting.com _________________________________________________________________ MSN Premium helps eliminate e-mail viruses. Get 2 months FREE* http://join.msn.com/?pgmarket=en-ca&page=byoa/prem&xAPID=1994&DI=1034&SU=http://hotmail.com/enca&HL=Market_MSNIS_Taglines From caa at highway.com.br Thu Mar 11 02:21:17 2004 From: caa at highway.com.br (Carlos Alberto Alves) Date: Thu, 11 Mar 2004 05:21:17 -0300 Subject: [AccessD] Framework Discussion - Who's following this In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On Mon, 8 Mar 2004 13:43:55 -0500, John W. Colby wrote: > My objective with this discussion is to explain the concepts and > implementation of frameworks in sufficient detail that anyone willing to > learn can pick up at least a few new ideas, understand classes and how > they > can solve problems, understand withevents and how using them allows us to > encapsulate entire subsystems into an object, and understand Frameworks > and... A B A -- ****************************** * Carlos Alberto Alves * * Child Neurologist * * Systems Analyst/Programmer * * Rio de Janeiro, Brazil * * mailto:caa at highway.com.br * ****************************** From accessd667 at yahoo.com Thu Mar 11 02:24:39 2004 From: accessd667 at yahoo.com (S D) Date: Thu, 11 Mar 2004 00:24:39 -0800 (PST) Subject: [AccessD] Setting/ retrieving Field properties? Solved! (+code) In-Reply-To: <404F4DE6.2010205@shaw.ca> Message-ID: <20040311082439.93568.qmail@web61105.mail.yahoo.com> Thnx for the replies. I've got it working! Sub SetAllowZeroLenght(strTablename As String, strFieldName As String, blnValue As Boolean) Dim db As DAO.Database Dim intI As Integer Dim intJ As Integer Dim tdf As DAO.TableDef Dim fLd As DAO.Field Dim dtmDate As Date Dim strValue As String Set db = CurrentDb() For intI = 0 To db.TableDefs.Count - 1 Set tdf = db.TableDefs(intI) If UCase(tdf.Name) = UCase(strTablename) Then dtmDate = Format(Date, "dd mmmm yyyy mm:hh:ss") strValue = "Printing properties for table: [" & tdf.Name & "]" db.Execute ("INSERT INTO tLog VALUES(#" & dtmDate & "#," & "'" & strValue & "'" & ")") Debug.Print "-------------------------------------------------------" Debug.Print "Printing properties for table: " & tdf.Name Debug.Print "-------------------------------------------------------" For intJ = 0 To tdf.Fields.Count - 1 Set fLd = tdf.Fields(intJ) If UCase(fLd.Name) = UCase(strFieldName) Then Debug.Print fLd.Name, fLd.AllowZeroLength Debug.Print "" Exit Sub End If Next intJ End If Next intI End Sub MartyConnelly wrote: Here is an example that resets all fields in all tables to allow zero length, skips around errors with on error resume next ACC: How to Set AllowZeroLength Property to Yes in All Tables http://support.microsoft.com/default.aspx?scid=kb;en-us;130336&Product=acc S D wrote: >Hi group, > >I need to set the field properties of a lot of tables. I want to do this using VBA. >I was reading Access 2000 Developers Handbook and I found the code printed below. However these are not the properties I expected. >I need to set field properties like: >Fiel Size >Required >Allow Zerow Length > >Any idea how I can do this? > >TIA > >Sander > > >Private Sub Command0_Click() > Dim db As DAO.Database > Dim intI As Integer > Dim tdf As DAO.TableDef > > Set db = CurrentDb() > > For intI = 0 To db.TableDefs.Count - 1 > Set tdf = db.TableDefs(intI) > If tdf.Name = "V3_44_RSDTD1" Then > Debug.Print "Printing properties for table: " & tdf.Name > Call ListTableProps(tdf.Name) > MsgBox "Properties listed!" > End If > Next intI > > MsgBox "Done! Tables found: " & intI > >End Sub >Sub ListTableProps(strTable As String) > Dim db As Database > Dim tdf As TableDef > Dim prp As DAO.Property > > Set db = CurrentDb() > Set tdf = db(strTable) > > For Each prp In tdf.Properties > Debug.Print prp.Name, prp.Type, prp.Value > Next prp >End Sub > > >--------------------------------- >Do you Yahoo!? >Yahoo! Search - Find what youre looking for faster. > > -- Marty Connelly Victoria, B.C. Canada -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com --------------------------------- Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Search - Find what you?re looking for faster. From gustav at cactus.dk Thu Mar 11 02:45:30 2004 From: gustav at cactus.dk (Gustav Brock) Date: Thu, 11 Mar 2004 09:45:30 +0100 Subject: [AccessD] Images on Continuous Forms or Reports In-Reply-To: <000501c406f0$2ff48c10$de1811d8@DanWaters> References: <000501c406f0$2ff48c10$de1811d8@DanWaters> Message-ID: <1613215273.20040311094530@cactus.dk> Hi Dan > What I would like to be able to do is have the detail section of the report > (or form) grow or shrink in accordance with the size of the image or whether > or not the image exists. When I started this I assumed that the image > control would have grow and shrink properties, but NO they don't! That depends. For Access 97 you cannot adjust the height of the detail section during formatting or printing. That should be possible for A2000+. /gustav From jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com Thu Mar 11 06:14:01 2004 From: jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com (John W. Colby) Date: Thu, 11 Mar 2004 07:14:01 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] DependentObjects class In-Reply-To: <4050883A.7227.1C1E18E@localhost> Message-ID: Stuart, Every one of my data aware control classes uses this class. And the object is a simple clean method of preventing a class from requerying a second time. John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Stuart McLachlan Sent: Thursday, March 11, 2004 12:40 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problemsolving Subject: Re: [AccessD] DependentObjects class On 11 Mar 2004 at 0:11, John W. Colby wrote: > I am working on a dependentobjects class, i.e. a class with a collection > which holds objects (classes) where the control or form is dependent on the > current control. Combo A changes. Combo B uses Combo A to filter itself. > Combo B is "dependent" on combo A and must be requeried whenever Combo A > changes. > > This is a case where I programmed a solution working but it was ugly. How > would you solve this problem? > I doubt if I would do it with a class. It's not *that* common a requirement and there are so many different ways that you can end up with circular references, CtlA - CtlB - CtlC - CtlD...... CtlX - CtlC etc that trying to allow for them would end up with such code bolat that the whole thing became inefficient. -- Lexacorp Ltd http://www.lexacorp.com.pg Information Technology Consultancy, Software Development,System Support. -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com Thu Mar 11 06:17:17 2004 From: jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com (John W. Colby) Date: Thu, 11 Mar 2004 07:17:17 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] ParamArray problem In-Reply-To: Message-ID: >Haven't looked into the Paramarray question as I've always passed arrays of strong types or of variants. In this case the array will be passing in objects, i.e. classes, but the class instances can be a combo class, a text class, a list class etc. Since each is a different class, I pass them as objects. Indeed you dim the array as specific class types AFAICT. John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of J?rgen Welz Sent: Thursday, March 11, 2004 1:05 AM To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: RE: [AccessD] ParamArray problem In .NET, if you pass an object ByVal, it is still passed ByRef. No error or notification. It just changes it. Haven't looked into the Paramarray question as I've always passed arrays of strong types or of variants. Ciao J?rgen Welz Edmonton, Alberta jwelz at hotmail.com >From: bruce_bruen at mlc.com.au > > > > > > >"for each next" to iterate the array and found something >in an "empty" array." > >Now that does sound strange. > >The VB help for .NET certainly says that FOREACH should not execute on a >paramarray with .length=0 >However, prior to .NET all paramarrays were passed as byrefs (hence my >comment on them being heap pointers) in .NET they are always byvals. > >Looks like there may be a situation in the VBA where the pointer is >initialised to a "random" heap pointer >under some circumstances - that would be bloody great hole! > >have fun >B > > > > "John W. Colby" > > > > > > >I also seem to remember that passing objects in paramarrays is a nono you >can only pass value items (???) > >Help says objects can be passed, or at least the array can be declared as >type object. > >And I was using a "for each next" to iterate the array and found something >in an "empty" array. > >John W. Colby >www.ColbyConsulting.com > >-----Original Message----- >From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com >[mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of >bruce_bruen at mlc.com.au >Sent: Wednesday, March 10, 2004 11:58 PM >To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving >Subject: Re: [AccessD] ParamArray problem > > > > > > >John, > >What you've written it looks right, bu I must ask how do you know there is >"something" in the ParamArray? I would not expect it to be equal to a >null, it is (I can remember which) actually a stack or heap pointer. I >also seem to remember that passing objects in paramarrays is a nono you can >only pass value items (???) , but its been months since I've VBA'd so to >speak so I could be wrong on that. > > >...meanwhile back to the C# > >hth >Bruce > > > > "John W. Colby" > > com> cc: > Sent by: Subject: [AccessD] >ParamArray problem > accessd-bounces at databasea > dvisors.com > > > 11/03/2004 15:43 > Please respond to Access > Developers discussion and > problem solving > > > > > > >I am doing an init() method of a class that looks like: > >Public Sub Init(ByRef robjParent As Object, ParamArray lDepObjsArr() As >Variant) > >where robjParent = a pointer to the parent class (ME) > >and ParamArray lDepObjsArr() As Variant MAY BE an array of dependent object >classes but specifically at the moment isn't being passed anything. I.e. >the calling function looks like > >MyClass.Init me > >I am passing in a pointer to self in the first parameter and nothing at all >for the array. > >Since it is an array that can contain variable number of objects I expected >it to allow this. However when I get inside the init() the lDepObjsArr has >something in it. That something is NOT a class, and I can't debug.print >the >value... > >What the heck is going on here? Can I not do this (not pass anything to a >paramarray? > >John W. Colby >www.ColbyConsulting.com _________________________________________________________________ STOP MORE SPAM with the MSN Premium and get 2 months FREE* http://join.msn.com/?pgmarket=en-ca&page=byoa/prem&xAPID=1994&DI=1034&SU=htt p://hotmail.com/enca&HL=Market_MSNIS_Taglines -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From Jdemarco at hudsonhealthplan.org Thu Mar 11 07:08:22 2004 From: Jdemarco at hudsonhealthplan.org (Jim DeMarco) Date: Thu, 11 Mar 2004 08:08:22 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Combo on Continuous Form Message-ID: <22F1CCD5171D17419CB37FEEE09D5F99030FE527@TTNEXCHSRV1.hshhp.com> Since it's a continuous form the drop down will repopulate for every record anyway (even though you won't physically see that) so the header may still make sense. Keep a hidden text box in the header as well for the unique record identifier then you can refill the header combo with the correct list values based on the text box value. Make sense? Jim DeMarco -----Original Message----- From: Mark A Matte [mailto:markamatte at hotmail.com] Sent: Wednesday, March 10, 2004 4:50 PM To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: RE: [AccessD] Combo on Continuous Form Because the form I'm building will be the same form for multiple products...but each product will have different attributes...and different values available depending on the product and the attribute. So the dropdown on each row will have different values...depending on what attribute is on that row. Thanks, Mark >From: "Jim DeMarco" >Reply-To: Access Developers discussion and problem >solving >To: "Access Developers discussion and problem solving" > >Subject: RE: [AccessD] Combo on Continuous Form >Date: Wed, 10 Mar 2004 10:28:35 -0500 > >Mark, > >Why not put it in the form Header instead? > >Jim DeMarco > >-----Original Message----- >From: Mark A Matte [mailto:markamatte at hotmail.com] >Sent: Tuesday, March 09, 2004 9:58 PM >To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com >Subject: [AccessD] Combo on Continuous Form > > >Hello, > >In A2k I want a combo box on a each row of the continuous form that filters >by the current record on that continuous form. Suggestions anyone? > >Thanks, > >Mark > >_________________________________________________________________ >Get business advice and resources to improve your work life, from bCentral. >http://special.msn.com/bcentral/loudclear.armx > >-- >_______________________________________________ >AccessD mailing list >AccessD at databaseadvisors.com >http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd >Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > > > >*********************************************************************************** >"This electronic message is intended to be for the use only of the named >recipient, and may contain information from Hudson Health Plan (HHP) that >is confidential or privileged. If you are not the intended recipient, you >are hereby notified that any disclosure, copying, distribution or use of >the contents of this message is strictly prohibited. If you have received >this message in error or are not the named recipient, please notify us >immediately, either by contacting the sender at the electronic mail address >noted above or calling HHP at (914) 631-1611. If you are not the intended >recipient, please do not forward this email to anyone, and delete and >destroy all copies of this message. Thank You". >*********************************************************************************** > >-- >_______________________________________________ >AccessD mailing list >AccessD at databaseadvisors.com >http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd >Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com _________________________________________________________________ FREE pop-up blocking with the new MSN Toolbar - get it now! http://clk.atdmt.com/AVE/go/onm00200415ave/direct/01/ -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com *********************************************************************************** "This electronic message is intended to be for the use only of the named recipient, and may contain information from Hudson Health Plan (HHP) that is confidential or privileged. If you are not the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any disclosure, copying, distribution or use of the contents of this message is strictly prohibited. If you have received this message in error or are not the named recipient, please notify us immediately, either by contacting the sender at the electronic mail address noted above or calling HHP at (914) 631-1611. If you are not the intended recipient, please do not forward this email to anyone, and delete and destroy all copies of this message. Thank You". *********************************************************************************** From jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com Thu Mar 11 07:13:48 2004 From: jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com (John W. Colby) Date: Thu, 11 Mar 2004 08:13:48 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] ParamArray problem In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Sorry, meant to say: >Indeed you CAN'T dim the array as specific class types AFAICT. If you look up ParamArrays in help it says that you can type the array as any of the built-in types including objects, but not custom types such as classes. John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of John W. Colby Sent: Thursday, March 11, 2004 7:17 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] ParamArray problem >Haven't looked into the Paramarray question as I've always passed arrays of strong types or of variants. In this case the array will be passing in objects, i.e. classes, but the class instances can be a combo class, a text class, a list class etc. Since each is a different class, I pass them as objects. Indeed you dim the array as specific class types AFAICT. John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of J?rgen Welz Sent: Thursday, March 11, 2004 1:05 AM To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: RE: [AccessD] ParamArray problem In .NET, if you pass an object ByVal, it is still passed ByRef. No error or notification. It just changes it. Haven't looked into the Paramarray question as I've always passed arrays of strong types or of variants. Ciao J?rgen Welz Edmonton, Alberta jwelz at hotmail.com >From: bruce_bruen at mlc.com.au > > > > > > >"for each next" to iterate the array and found something >in an "empty" array." > >Now that does sound strange. > >The VB help for .NET certainly says that FOREACH should not execute on a >paramarray with .length=0 >However, prior to .NET all paramarrays were passed as byrefs (hence my >comment on them being heap pointers) in .NET they are always byvals. > >Looks like there may be a situation in the VBA where the pointer is >initialised to a "random" heap pointer >under some circumstances - that would be bloody great hole! > >have fun >B > > > > "John W. Colby" > > > > > > >I also seem to remember that passing objects in paramarrays is a nono you >can only pass value items (???) > >Help says objects can be passed, or at least the array can be declared as >type object. > >And I was using a "for each next" to iterate the array and found something >in an "empty" array. > >John W. Colby >www.ColbyConsulting.com > >-----Original Message----- >From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com >[mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of >bruce_bruen at mlc.com.au >Sent: Wednesday, March 10, 2004 11:58 PM >To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving >Subject: Re: [AccessD] ParamArray problem > > > > > > >John, > >What you've written it looks right, bu I must ask how do you know there is >"something" in the ParamArray? I would not expect it to be equal to a >null, it is (I can remember which) actually a stack or heap pointer. I >also seem to remember that passing objects in paramarrays is a nono you can >only pass value items (???) , but its been months since I've VBA'd so to >speak so I could be wrong on that. > > >...meanwhile back to the C# > >hth >Bruce > > > > "John W. Colby" > > com> cc: > Sent by: Subject: [AccessD] >ParamArray problem > accessd-bounces at databasea > dvisors.com > > > 11/03/2004 15:43 > Please respond to Access > Developers discussion and > problem solving > > > > > > >I am doing an init() method of a class that looks like: > >Public Sub Init(ByRef robjParent As Object, ParamArray lDepObjsArr() As >Variant) > >where robjParent = a pointer to the parent class (ME) > >and ParamArray lDepObjsArr() As Variant MAY BE an array of dependent object >classes but specifically at the moment isn't being passed anything. I.e. >the calling function looks like > >MyClass.Init me > >I am passing in a pointer to self in the first parameter and nothing at all >for the array. > >Since it is an array that can contain variable number of objects I expected >it to allow this. However when I get inside the init() the lDepObjsArr has >something in it. That something is NOT a class, and I can't debug.print >the >value... > >What the heck is going on here? Can I not do this (not pass anything to a >paramarray? > >John W. Colby >www.ColbyConsulting.com _________________________________________________________________ STOP MORE SPAM with the MSN Premium and get 2 months FREE* http://join.msn.com/?pgmarket=en-ca&page=byoa/prem&xAPID=1994&DI=1034&SU=htt p://hotmail.com/enca&HL=Market_MSNIS_Taglines -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From Lembit.Soobik at t-online.de Thu Mar 11 07:27:04 2004 From: Lembit.Soobik at t-online.de (Lembit Soobik) Date: Thu, 11 Mar 2004 14:27:04 +0100 Subject: [AccessD] Form - Subform - Control Reference References: Message-ID: <0ee201c4076e$5461d070$0200a8c0@S856> How is the syntax if I am on... and want to reference a control on ... stop scratching your head. go to our website and you will find a nice table listing all the cases. Thanks to William Hindman, who provided this sheet. Lembit Soobik From reuben at gfconsultants.com Thu Mar 11 07:43:12 2004 From: reuben at gfconsultants.com (Reuben Cummings) Date: Thu, 11 Mar 2004 08:43:12 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Combo on Continuous Form In-Reply-To: <22F1CCD5171D17419CB37FEEE09D5F99030FE527@TTNEXCHSRV1.hshhp.com> Message-ID: Unless I'm missing something, this is something I do quite often. I base the combo on parameterized SQL (just like a parameter query but I paste the sql into the combo box) and requery the query on Got_Focus. You can also use On_Current - I have done it this way when I want to disable the combo in some records. Reuben Cummings GFC, LLC phone: 812.523.1017 email: reuben at gfconsultants.com > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Jim DeMarco > Sent: Thursday, March 11, 2004 8:08 AM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: RE: [AccessD] Combo on Continuous Form > > > Since it's a continuous form the drop down will repopulate for > every record anyway (even though you won't physically see that) > so the header may still make sense. Keep a hidden text box in > the header as well for the unique record identifier then you can > refill the header combo with the correct list values based on the > text box value. Make sense? > > Jim DeMarco > > -----Original Message----- > From: Mark A Matte [mailto:markamatte at hotmail.com] > Sent: Wednesday, March 10, 2004 4:50 PM > To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com > Subject: RE: [AccessD] Combo on Continuous Form > > > > Because the form I'm building will be the same form for multiple > products...but each product will have different attributes...and > different values available depending on the product and the > attribute. So the > dropdown on each row will have different values...depending on what > attribute is on that row. > > Thanks, > > Mark > > >From: "Jim DeMarco" > >Reply-To: Access Developers discussion and problem > >solving > >To: "Access Developers discussion and problem solving" > > > >Subject: RE: [AccessD] Combo on Continuous Form > >Date: Wed, 10 Mar 2004 10:28:35 -0500 > > > >Mark, > > > >Why not put it in the form Header instead? > > > >Jim DeMarco > > > >-----Original Message----- > >From: Mark A Matte [mailto:markamatte at hotmail.com] > >Sent: Tuesday, March 09, 2004 9:58 PM > >To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com > >Subject: [AccessD] Combo on Continuous Form > > > > > >Hello, > > > >In A2k I want a combo box on a each row of the continuous form > that filters > >by the current record on that continuous form. Suggestions anyone? > > > >Thanks, > > > >Mark > > > >_________________________________________________________________ > >Get business advice and resources to improve your work life, > from bCentral. > >http://special.msn.com/bcentral/loudclear.armx > > > >-- > >_______________________________________________ > >AccessD mailing list > >AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > >http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > >Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > > > > > > > > > > >***************************************************************** > ****************** > >"This electronic message is intended to be for the use only of > the named >recipient, and may contain information from Hudson > Health Plan (HHP) that >is confidential or privileged. If you > are not the intended recipient, you >are hereby notified that any > disclosure, copying, distribution or use of >the contents of this > message is strictly prohibited. If you have received >this > message in error or are not the named recipient, please notify us > >immediately, either by contacting the sender at the electronic > mail address > >noted above or calling HHP at (914) 631-1611. If you are not the > intended >recipient, please do not forward this email to anyone, > and delete and > >destroy all copies of this message. Thank You". > >***************************************************************** > ****************** > > > >-- > >_______________________________________________ > >AccessD mailing list > >AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > >http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > >Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > _________________________________________________________________ > FREE pop-up blocking with the new MSN Toolbar - get it now! > http://clk.atdmt.com/AVE/go/onm00200415ave/direct/01/ > > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > > > > ****************************************************************** > ***************** > "This electronic message is intended to be for the use only of > the named recipient, and may contain information from Hudson > Health Plan (HHP) that is confidential or privileged. If you are > not the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any > disclosure, copying, distribution or use of the contents of this > message is strictly prohibited. If you have received this > message in error or are not the named recipient, please notify us > immediately, either by contacting the sender at the electronic > mail address noted above or calling HHP at (914) 631-1611. If you > are not the intended recipient, please do not forward this email > to anyone, and delete and destroy all copies of this message. Thank You". > ****************************************************************** > ***************** > > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > From Jdemarco at hudsonhealthplan.org Thu Mar 11 08:08:50 2004 From: Jdemarco at hudsonhealthplan.org (Jim DeMarco) Date: Thu, 11 Mar 2004 09:08:50 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Combo on Continuous Form Message-ID: <22F1CCD5171D17419CB37FEEE09D5F99030FE52B@TTNEXCHSRV1.hshhp.com> Right but he's using a continuous form here with each row requiring a differing set of filter choices. Let's use an example of the first two rows being two different items as follows and using a combo box located on the continous form: Record 1 filters by: ItemA or ItemB Record 2 filters by: ItemC or ItemD I'm in row 1 and I select ItemA from the drop down (that is on the continuous form). All rows will show I've selected ItemA even those where ItemA is not applicable (due to the nature of continous forms unless I'm way off base here). I think this would confuse users. It's why I suggested putting the filter criteria in the header where it will only appear once and is always visible as you scroll the form and only shows the options available for the currently selected record. Jim DeMarco -----Original Message----- From: Reuben Cummings [mailto:reuben at gfconsultants.com] Sent: Thursday, March 11, 2004 8:43 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] Combo on Continuous Form Unless I'm missing something, this is something I do quite often. I base the combo on parameterized SQL (just like a parameter query but I paste the sql into the combo box) and requery the query on Got_Focus. You can also use On_Current - I have done it this way when I want to disable the combo in some records. Reuben Cummings GFC, LLC phone: 812.523.1017 email: reuben at gfconsultants.com > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Jim DeMarco > Sent: Thursday, March 11, 2004 8:08 AM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: RE: [AccessD] Combo on Continuous Form > > > Since it's a continuous form the drop down will repopulate for > every record anyway (even though you won't physically see that) > so the header may still make sense. Keep a hidden text box in > the header as well for the unique record identifier then you can > refill the header combo with the correct list values based on the > text box value. Make sense? > > Jim DeMarco > > -----Original Message----- > From: Mark A Matte [mailto:markamatte at hotmail.com] > Sent: Wednesday, March 10, 2004 4:50 PM > To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com > Subject: RE: [AccessD] Combo on Continuous Form > > > > Because the form I'm building will be the same form for multiple > products...but each product will have different attributes...and > different values available depending on the product and the > attribute. So the > dropdown on each row will have different values...depending on what > attribute is on that row. > > Thanks, > > Mark > > >From: "Jim DeMarco" > >Reply-To: Access Developers discussion and problem > >solving > >To: "Access Developers discussion and problem solving" > > > >Subject: RE: [AccessD] Combo on Continuous Form > >Date: Wed, 10 Mar 2004 10:28:35 -0500 > > > >Mark, > > > >Why not put it in the form Header instead? > > > >Jim DeMarco > > > >-----Original Message----- > >From: Mark A Matte [mailto:markamatte at hotmail.com] > >Sent: Tuesday, March 09, 2004 9:58 PM > >To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com > >Subject: [AccessD] Combo on Continuous Form > > > > > >Hello, > > > >In A2k I want a combo box on a each row of the continuous form > that filters > >by the current record on that continuous form. Suggestions anyone? > > > >Thanks, > > > >Mark > > > >_________________________________________________________________ > >Get business advice and resources to improve your work life, > from bCentral. > >http://special.msn.com/bcentral/loudclear.armx > > > >-- > >_______________________________________________ > >AccessD mailing list > >AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > >http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > >Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > > > > > > > > > > >***************************************************************** > ****************** > >"This electronic message is intended to be for the use only of > the named >recipient, and may contain information from Hudson > Health Plan (HHP) that >is confidential or privileged. If you > are not the intended recipient, you >are hereby notified that any > disclosure, copying, distribution or use of >the contents of this > message is strictly prohibited. If you have received >this > message in error or are not the named recipient, please notify us > >immediately, either by contacting the sender at the electronic > mail address > >noted above or calling HHP at (914) 631-1611. If you are not the > intended >recipient, please do not forward this email to anyone, > and delete and > >destroy all copies of this message. Thank You". > >***************************************************************** > ****************** > > > >-- > >_______________________________________________ > >AccessD mailing list > >AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > >http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > >Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > _________________________________________________________________ > FREE pop-up blocking with the new MSN Toolbar - get it now! > http://clk.atdmt.com/AVE/go/onm00200415ave/direct/01/ > > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > > > > ****************************************************************** > ***************** > "This electronic message is intended to be for the use only of > the named recipient, and may contain information from Hudson > Health Plan (HHP) that is confidential or privileged. If you are > not the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any > disclosure, copying, distribution or use of the contents of this > message is strictly prohibited. If you have received this > message in error or are not the named recipient, please notify us > immediately, either by contacting the sender at the electronic > mail address noted above or calling HHP at (914) 631-1611. If you > are not the intended recipient, please do not forward this email > to anyone, and delete and destroy all copies of this message. Thank You". > ****************************************************************** > ***************** > > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com *********************************************************************************** "This electronic message is intended to be for the use only of the named recipient, and may contain information from Hudson Health Plan (HHP) that is confidential or privileged. If you are not the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any disclosure, copying, distribution or use of the contents of this message is strictly prohibited. If you have received this message in error or are not the named recipient, please notify us immediately, either by contacting the sender at the electronic mail address noted above or calling HHP at (914) 631-1611. If you are not the intended recipient, please do not forward this email to anyone, and delete and destroy all copies of this message. Thank You". *********************************************************************************** From rl_stewart at highstream.net Thu Mar 11 08:11:40 2004 From: rl_stewart at highstream.net (Robert L. Stewart) Date: Thu, 11 Mar 2004 08:11:40 -0600 Subject: [AccessD] Re: Combo on Continuous Form In-Reply-To: <200403110513.i2B5DEM15231@databaseadvisors.com> Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20040311080945.029ebc78@pop3.highstream.net> Mark, Sorry to be thick headed, but I still do not have a clue as to what you really want to do. That is why I gave you an expanded example. Robert At 11:13 PM 3/10/2004 -0600, you wrote: >Date: Wed, 10 Mar 2004 21:51:57 +0000 >From: "Mark A Matte" >Subject: RE: [AccessD] Re: Combo on Continuous Form >To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com >Message-ID: >Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed > >Robert, > >My original post was: > >In A2k I want a combo box on a each row of the continuous form that filters >by the current record on that continuous form. Suggestions anyone? > >Thanks, > >Mark > > > >From: "Robert L. Stewart" > >Reply-To: Access Developers discussion and problem > >solving > >To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com > >CC: markamatte at hotmail.com > >Subject: [AccessD] Re: Combo on Continuous Form > >Date: Wed, 10 Mar 2004 10:15:22 -0600 > > > >Mark, > > > >What are you trying to accomplish? > > > >For example: > > > >I want a combobox on each row of a subform so I > >can use it to open a second form with information > >filtered not only by the information in the subform, > >but also limited by my selection in the combobox. > > > >Please give use more information. > > > >Thanks > > > >Robert From Bryan_Carbonnell at cbc.ca Thu Mar 11 08:56:07 2004 From: Bryan_Carbonnell at cbc.ca (Bryan Carbonnell) Date: Thu, 11 Mar 2004 09:56:07 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] DependentObjects class Message-ID: > Obviously if we add combo A to combo B's DependentObject collection and we > add Combo B to Combo A's dependent object collection, then we start an > endless loop where A requeries B which requeries A which requeries B... Maybe Im missing something painfully obvious but..... Why would you end up with an endless loop? Here is what I am understanding... If A is dependant on B and B is dependant on A, they need to be requeried when the other's value changes. Since you are adding to A, then the logical assumption is that the value of A will change to the newly entered value. But B's value won't change, wil it? The underlying datasource may change, but the actual value won't. So since Bs value didn't change A won't need to be requried. Therefore no loop. Or the other way around: Since you are adding to B, then the logical assumption is that the value of B will change to the newly entered value. But A's value won't change, wil it? The underlying datasource may change, but the actual value won't. So since As value didn't change B won't need to be requried. Therefore no loop. No?? Like I said I may be missing something painfully obvious. It wouldn't be the first time :-) Bryan Carbonnell bryan_carbonnell at cbc.ca >>> jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com 11-Mar-04 12:11:22 AM >>> I am working on a dependentobjects class, i.e. a class with a collection which holds objects (classes) where the control or form is dependent on the current control. Combo A changes. Combo B uses Combo A to filter itself. Combo B is "dependent" on combo A and must be requeried whenever Combo A changes. There is a case where two combos on a form may display data from the same table. For example two combos both display cities from the cities lookup table. If Combo A NotInList adds a new city. Combo B needs to requery in order to display that new city if necessary. However if Combo B adds the city, then Combo A needs to requery. Obviously if we add combo A to combo B's DependentObject collection and we add Combo B to Combo A's dependent object collection, then we start an endless loop where A requeries B which requeries A which requeries B... This is a case where I programmed a solution working but it was ugly. How would you solve this problem? From jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com Thu Mar 11 09:24:29 2004 From: jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com (John W. Colby) Date: Thu, 11 Mar 2004 10:24:29 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] DependentObjects class In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Bryan, Dependent objects say that ComboB is filtered on ComboA. The NORMAL usage is when ComboA changes, the data set for Combo will change so we need to requery ComboB in order to get the new dataset. The NORMAL usage is that if we requery ComboB, then because it is probably changing it's dataset, the object it is displaying is also changing so requery any of ComboB's dependent objects. If ComboA is "dependent on" ComboB then we have created feedback and an endless loop ensues. In this specific case, ComboA is NOT dependent on ComboB and ComboB is NOT dependent on ComboA they are just displaying the same potential dataset. If ComboA causes the dataset to change then ComboB needs to be requeried so that it can pick up the changes. ComboB does NOT need to requery any other objects however since it did not initiate the changing data. It turns out that I am using the same functionality for different purposes and that is really what causes the problem. I could add a second collection in clsDepObj that holds pointers to any objects that display the same data but are not dependent in the normal sense. Then have another method of the class that says "requery the control but not the dependent objects". Call this method for every object in the SameData collection. Since only the control / form gets requeried and the SameData class does not iterate it's dependent collection, we avoid this problem. Sometimes it helps to write out the problem like this and solutions start popping out. I'll have to think about this one. Thanks for pointing out the obvious. John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Bryan Carbonnell Sent: Thursday, March 11, 2004 9:56 AM To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: Re: [AccessD] DependentObjects class > Obviously if we add combo A to combo B's DependentObject collection and we > add Combo B to Combo A's dependent object collection, then we start an > endless loop where A requeries B which requeries A which requeries B... Maybe Im missing something painfully obvious but..... Why would you end up with an endless loop? Here is what I am understanding... If A is dependant on B and B is dependant on A, they need to be requeried when the other's value changes. Since you are adding to A, then the logical assumption is that the value of A will change to the newly entered value. But B's value won't change, wil it? The underlying datasource may change, but the actual value won't. So since Bs value didn't change A won't need to be requried. Therefore no loop. Or the other way around: Since you are adding to B, then the logical assumption is that the value of B will change to the newly entered value. But A's value won't change, wil it? The underlying datasource may change, but the actual value won't. So since As value didn't change B won't need to be requried. Therefore no loop. No?? Like I said I may be missing something painfully obvious. It wouldn't be the first time :-) Bryan Carbonnell bryan_carbonnell at cbc.ca >>> jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com 11-Mar-04 12:11:22 AM >>> I am working on a dependentobjects class, i.e. a class with a collection which holds objects (classes) where the control or form is dependent on the current control. Combo A changes. Combo B uses Combo A to filter itself. Combo B is "dependent" on combo A and must be requeried whenever Combo A changes. There is a case where two combos on a form may display data from the same table. For example two combos both display cities from the cities lookup table. If Combo A NotInList adds a new city. Combo B needs to requery in order to display that new city if necessary. However if Combo B adds the city, then Combo A needs to requery. Obviously if we add combo A to combo B's DependentObject collection and we add Combo B to Combo A's dependent object collection, then we start an endless loop where A requeries B which requeries A which requeries B... This is a case where I programmed a solution working but it was ugly. How would you solve this problem? -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From rsmethurst at UK.EY.COM Thu Mar 11 11:42:38 2004 From: rsmethurst at UK.EY.COM (rsmethurst at UK.EY.COM) Date: Thu, 11 Mar 2004 17:42:38 +0000 Subject: [AccessD] Printing forms Message-ID: Hi All, I am having a problem printing forms - specifically it is with combo boxes and radio buttons (usually within frames) which do not print with the correct option filled. i.e two radio buttons and both will print blank, even though the first one is selected. and a combo box with have a selected value, but will not display this value when the form prints. The controls are all set to display for both print and screen, and the controls are unbound. TIA Ryan This e-mail and any attachment are confidential and contain proprietary information, some or all of which may be legally privileged. It is intended solely for the use of the individual or entity to which it is addressed. If you are not the intended recipient, please notify the author immediately by telephone or by replying to this e-mail, and then delete all copies of the e-mail on your system. If you are not the intended recipient, you must not use, disclose, distribute, copy, print or rely on this e-mail. Whilst we have taken reasonable precautions to ensure that this e-mail and any attachment has been checked for viruses, we cannot guarantee that they are virus free and we cannot accept liability for any damage sustained as a result of software viruses. We would advise that you carry out your own virus checks, especially before opening an attachment. The UK firm Ernst & Young LLP is a limited liability partnership registered in England and Wales with registered number OC300001 and is a member practice of Ernst & Young Global. A list of members? names is available for inspection at 1 More London Place, London, SE1 2AF, the firm?s principal place of business and its registered office. From rl_stewart at highstream.net Thu Mar 11 12:12:05 2004 From: rl_stewart at highstream.net (Robert L. Stewart) Date: Thu, 11 Mar 2004 12:12:05 -0600 Subject: [AccessD] Re: Combo on Continuous Form In-Reply-To: <200403111746.i2BHkpM06224@databaseadvisors.com> Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20040311120926.049109e8@pop3.highstream.net> Mark, This is what I needed to know. All you need to do is use a cascading combobox. The demo of this is on Roger's site. Your cascade events will probably be in the oncurrent and the afterupdate. Because you would want it to change when adding a new row and when you change from one existing row to another. Robert P.S. You will need for the combobox to be bound to a column for it to display properly. At 11:46 AM 3/11/2004 -0600, you wrote: >From: Mark A Matte [mailto:markamatte at hotmail.com] >Sent: Wednesday, March 10, 2004 4:50 PM >To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com >Subject: RE: [AccessD] Combo on Continuous Form > > > >Because the form I'm building will be the same form for multiple >products...but each product will have different attributes...and different >values available depending on the product and the attribute. So the >dropdown on each row will have different values...depending on what >attribute is on that row. > >Thanks, > >Mark From Bryan_Carbonnell at cbc.ca Thu Mar 11 12:15:34 2004 From: Bryan_Carbonnell at cbc.ca (Bryan Carbonnell) Date: Thu, 11 Mar 2004 13:15:34 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] DependentObjects class Message-ID: > In this specific case, ComboA is NOT dependent on ComboB and ComboB is NOT > dependent on ComboA they are just displaying the same potential dataset. If > ComboA causes the dataset to change then ComboB needs to be requeried so > that it can pick up the changes. ComboB does NOT need to requery any other > objects however since it did not initiate the changing data. It turns out > that I am using the same functionality for different purposes and that is > really what causes the problem. In that case, in your custom NotInList event when the data is added why not do something like this: 'Assumptions - Parent of combo class is a form class ' and the combo class has a parent property that ' points to the form class ' All of this is pseudo code 'Loop through all the combo classes in the parent For each ComboClass in Me.Parent.ComboClasses 'Check to see if the RowSource of the ComboClass is the ' same as this class' row source If ComboClass.RowSource = Me.RowSource then 'It is, so requery the combo class ComboClass.Requery End If Loop I would think that if you did it this way, then both possibilities (A dependant on B and A and B share a Row Source) will be covered in the same class and you don't have to create a separate collection to hold the row sources. Just an idea. >Thanks for pointing out the obvious. Glad to Help?!?! I think. :) Bryan Carbonnell bryan_carbonnell at cbc.ca >>> jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com 11-Mar-04 10:24:29 AM >>> Bryan, Dependent objects say that ComboB is filtered on ComboA. The NORMAL usage is when ComboA changes, the data set for Combo will change so we need to requery ComboB in order to get the new dataset. The NORMAL usage is that if we requery ComboB, then because it is probably changing it's dataset, the object it is displaying is also changing so requery any of ComboB's dependent objects. If ComboA is "dependent on" ComboB then we have created feedback and an endless loop ensues. In this specific case, ComboA is NOT dependent on ComboB and ComboB is NOT dependent on ComboA they are just displaying the same potential dataset. If ComboA causes the dataset to change then ComboB needs to be requeried so that it can pick up the changes. ComboB does NOT need to requery any other objects however since it did not initiate the changing data. It turns out that I am using the same functionality for different purposes and that is really what causes the problem. I could add a second collection in clsDepObj that holds pointers to any objects that display the same data but are not dependent in the normal sense. Then have another method of the class that says "requery the control but not the dependent objects". Call this method for every object in the SameData collection. Since only the control / form gets requeried and the SameData class does not iterate it's dependent collection, we avoid this problem. Sometimes it helps to write out the problem like this and solutions start popping out. I'll have to think about this one. Thanks for pointing out the obvious. From rl_stewart at highstream.net Thu Mar 11 12:15:55 2004 From: rl_stewart at highstream.net (Robert L. Stewart) Date: Thu, 11 Mar 2004 12:15:55 -0600 Subject: [AccessD] Re: Printing forms In-Reply-To: <200403111746.i2BHkpM06224@databaseadvisors.com> Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20040311121458.02a59d10@pop3.highstream.net> Ryan, That is because you print reports and not forms. Forms are for data entry. Reports are for printing. Robert At 11:46 AM 3/11/2004 -0600, you wrote: >Date: Thu, 11 Mar 2004 17:42:38 +0000 >From: rsmethurst at UK.EY.COM >Subject: [AccessD] Printing forms >To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > >Message-ID: > >Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" > >Hi All, > >I am having a problem printing forms - specifically it is with combo boxes >and radio buttons (usually within frames) which do not print with the >correct option filled. > >i.e two radio buttons and both will print blank, even though the first one >is selected. >and a combo box with have a selected value, but will not display this >value when the form prints. > >The controls are all set to display for both print and screen, and the >controls are unbound. > >TIA > >Ryan From jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com Thu Mar 11 12:59:40 2004 From: jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com (John W. Colby) Date: Thu, 11 Mar 2004 13:59:40 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] DependentObjects class In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Its not quite that simple. Many different objects can use data from the same table including other forms / subforms, lists, combos etc. Further the table may be part of a complex query in that object over there where it is the whole query in this object etc. In my mind it is better to just let the developer tell the system "this object is dependent on that object" and / or "this object uses the same data as that object". John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Bryan Carbonnell Sent: Thursday, March 11, 2004 1:16 PM To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: RE: [AccessD] DependentObjects class > In this specific case, ComboA is NOT dependent on ComboB and ComboB is NOT > dependent on ComboA they are just displaying the same potential dataset. If > ComboA causes the dataset to change then ComboB needs to be requeried so > that it can pick up the changes. ComboB does NOT need to requery any other > objects however since it did not initiate the changing data. It turns out > that I am using the same functionality for different purposes and that is > really what causes the problem. In that case, in your custom NotInList event when the data is added why not do something like this: 'Assumptions - Parent of combo class is a form class ' and the combo class has a parent property that ' points to the form class ' All of this is pseudo code 'Loop through all the combo classes in the parent For each ComboClass in Me.Parent.ComboClasses 'Check to see if the RowSource of the ComboClass is the ' same as this class' row source If ComboClass.RowSource = Me.RowSource then 'It is, so requery the combo class ComboClass.Requery End If Loop I would think that if you did it this way, then both possibilities (A dependant on B and A and B share a Row Source) will be covered in the same class and you don't have to create a separate collection to hold the row sources. Just an idea. >Thanks for pointing out the obvious. Glad to Help?!?! I think. :) Bryan Carbonnell bryan_carbonnell at cbc.ca From John.Clark at niagaracounty.com Thu Mar 11 14:02:00 2004 From: John.Clark at niagaracounty.com (John Clark) Date: Thu, 11 Mar 2004 15:02:00 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] question on normalization Message-ID: quick question: I have a program that will be populated with a 'regional' group of people--this meaning that everyone's address will be within this county. So I am thinking that I can speed up entry, by using a drop-down for zip codes and filling the town name from that. My question is, would it be proper to have a separate table for town and another for zip code, even though zip code would be a single field table? The town table would have three tables, with one being a link to the Zip Code table, and the Zip Code table would have a single field--"Zip". Thanks John W Clark From DMcAfee at haascnc.com Thu Mar 11 14:48:42 2004 From: DMcAfee at haascnc.com (David McAfee) Date: Thu, 11 Mar 2004 12:48:42 -0800 Subject: [AccessD] question on normalization Message-ID: <657FB70438B7D311AF320090279C180106144105@EXCHMAIL> I our last system, we had a Zipcode table with 5 fields (and 45K+ records): ZipID (PK Autonumber) ZipCode (text,5) City (text, 30) State (text, 2) DefaultCity (yes/no) I would look up a city based on zipcode entry. One of three results could happen: 0 records returned: Prompt to check if zipcode entry (later evolved into adding new city) 1 record returned: populate city and state onto form >1 record returned: pop up a mini screen with a list box showing all of the cities using that zipcode. The default city is selected with the OK button having focus. I would store every part of the address together for a given address. In our new system, we have the similar set up as above, but we only keep the ZipID (ID, for the city, state and Zip) with the address. The extra joins needed now are a bit of a pita, so I could imagine how much more it would be to use a junction table containing an CSZid, CityID, Stid & ZipID. I guess it all boils down to what level of normalization do you want to go? 3rd, 4th? Oh, btw, are you only dealing with US addresses or INTL addresses too? Because that will add some twists too ;) David -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of John Clark Sent: Thursday, March 11, 2004 12:02 PM To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: [AccessD] question on normalization quick question: I have a program that will be populated with a 'regional' group of people--this meaning that everyone's address will be within this county. So I am thinking that I can speed up entry, by using a drop-down for zip codes and filling the town name from that. My question is, would it be proper to have a separate table for town and another for zip code, even though zip code would be a single field table? The town table would have three tables, with one being a link to the Zip Code table, and the Zip Code table would have a single field--"Zip". Thanks John W Clark -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From markamatte at hotmail.com Thu Mar 11 14:56:48 2004 From: markamatte at hotmail.com (Mark A Matte) Date: Thu, 11 Mar 2004 20:56:48 +0000 Subject: [AccessD] Re: Combo on Continuous Form Message-ID: What is the URL to Roger's site? Thanks, Mark >From: "Robert L. Stewart" >Reply-To: Access Developers discussion and problem >solving >To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com >Subject: [AccessD] Re: Combo on Continuous Form >Date: Thu, 11 Mar 2004 12:12:05 -0600 > >Mark, > >This is what I needed to know. All you need to do >is use a cascading combobox. The demo of this is >on Roger's site. Your cascade events will probably >be in the oncurrent and the afterupdate. Because >you would want it to change when adding a new row >and when you change from one existing row to another. > >Robert > >P.S. You will need for the combobox to be bound to >a column for it to display properly. > >At 11:46 AM 3/11/2004 -0600, you wrote: >>From: Mark A Matte [mailto:markamatte at hotmail.com] >>Sent: Wednesday, March 10, 2004 4:50 PM >>To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com >>Subject: RE: [AccessD] Combo on Continuous Form >> >> >> >>Because the form I'm building will be the same form for multiple >>products...but each product will have different attributes...and different >>values available depending on the product and the attribute. So the >>dropdown on each row will have different values...depending on what >>attribute is on that row. >> >>Thanks, >> >>Mark > > >-- >_______________________________________________ >AccessD mailing list >AccessD at databaseadvisors.com >http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd >Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com _________________________________________________________________ Learn how to help protect your privacy and prevent fraud online at Tech Hacks & Scams. http://special.msn.com/msnbc/techsafety.armx From Oleg_123 at xuppa.com Thu Mar 11 15:10:52 2004 From: Oleg_123 at xuppa.com (Oleg_123 at xuppa.com) Date: Thu, 11 Mar 2004 16:10:52 -0500 (EST) Subject: [AccessD] combining date columns In-Reply-To: <657FB70438B7D311AF320090279C180106144105@EXCHMAIL> References: <657FB70438B7D311AF320090279C180106144105@EXCHMAIL> Message-ID: <31155.63.251.87.214.1079039452.squirrel@heck.bay9.com> Group, I need to combain 3 date fields into one (where the date apears either in first column or in second or in third), I tried [Column1] & [column2] and [column3] as Combined (obviously with diff names) i am coming up with a field that is not treated like date. (numeric field prob) Format([Column1] & [column2] and [column3]),"mm/dd/yyyy" as Combined also didn't work. Any suggestions ? ----------------------------------------- Get Breaking News from CNN, ABC, NBC, CBS Now. http://www.xuppa.com/news/?link=webmail From martyconnelly at shaw.ca Thu Mar 11 15:25:07 2004 From: martyconnelly at shaw.ca (MartyConnelly) Date: Thu, 11 Mar 2004 13:25:07 -0800 Subject: [AccessD] Access 2000 ADP's and DataSheet views - Crosspost References: <404F8D9B.6050809@verizon.net> Message-ID: <4050D933.7070901@shaw.ca> I don't know if this is the cause; just came across it in fixes manifest of Access XP SP3 just released ACC2002: Error Message: Cannot Apply Filter on One or More Fields That Are Specified in the Filter Property http://support.microsoft.com/default.aspx?kbid=814094 This problem may occur when you connect to Microsoft SQL Server with credentials that are different from the credentials of the owner of the table that you want to filter. Francisco H Tapia wrote: > re-posted from the SqlServer list :) > > Quick questions, has anyone on the list tried to use a datasheet view > form bound to a view or sproc and found that if you filter out the > display (datasheet) that upon making changes to any field the > datasheet looses it's Filter? > > Thanks, > -- Marty Connelly Victoria, B.C. Canada From martyconnelly at shaw.ca Thu Mar 11 15:31:41 2004 From: martyconnelly at shaw.ca (MartyConnelly) Date: Thu, 11 Mar 2004 13:31:41 -0800 Subject: [AccessD] Re: Combo on Continuous Form References: Message-ID: <4050DABD.8070904@shaw.ca> http://www.rogersaccesslibrary.com Mark A Matte wrote: > What is the URL to Roger's site? > > Thanks, > > Mark > > >> From: "Robert L. Stewart" >> Reply-To: Access Developers discussion and problem >> solving >> To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com >> Subject: [AccessD] Re: Combo on Continuous Form >> Date: Thu, 11 Mar 2004 12:12:05 -0600 >> >> Mark, >> >> This is what I needed to know. All you need to do >> is use a cascading combobox. The demo of this is >> on Roger's site. Your cascade events will probably >> be in the oncurrent and the afterupdate. Because >> you would want it to change when adding a new row >> and when you change from one existing row to another. >> >> Robert >> >> P.S. You will need for the combobox to be bound to >> a column for it to display properly. >> >> At 11:46 AM 3/11/2004 -0600, you wrote: >> >>> From: Mark A Matte [mailto:markamatte at hotmail.com] >>> Sent: Wednesday, March 10, 2004 4:50 PM >>> To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com >>> Subject: RE: [AccessD] Combo on Continuous Form >>> >>> >>> >>> Because the form I'm building will be the same form for multiple >>> products...but each product will have different attributes...and >>> different values available depending on the product and the >>> attribute. So the >>> dropdown on each row will have different values...depending on what >>> attribute is on that row. >>> >>> Thanks, >>> >>> Mark >> >> >> >> -- >> _______________________________________________ >> AccessD mailing list >> AccessD at databaseadvisors.com >> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd >> Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > _________________________________________________________________ > Learn how to help protect your privacy and prevent fraud online at > Tech Hacks & Scams. http://special.msn.com/msnbc/techsafety.armx > -- Marty Connelly Victoria, B.C. Canada From jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com Thu Mar 11 15:55:17 2004 From: jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com (John W. Colby) Date: Thu, 11 Mar 2004 16:55:17 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] question on normalization In-Reply-To: <657FB70438B7D311AF320090279C180106144105@EXCHMAIL> Message-ID: David, Did you fill in this table with which Zips were in which town etc.? Or is there a standard db out there somewhere with this stuff? John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of David McAfee Sent: Thursday, March 11, 2004 3:49 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: [AccessD] question on normalization I our last system, we had a Zipcode table with 5 fields (and 45K+ records): ZipID (PK Autonumber) ZipCode (text,5) City (text, 30) State (text, 2) DefaultCity (yes/no) I would look up a city based on zipcode entry. One of three results could happen: 0 records returned: Prompt to check if zipcode entry (later evolved into adding new city) 1 record returned: populate city and state onto form >1 record returned: pop up a mini screen with a list box showing all of the cities using that zipcode. The default city is selected with the OK button having focus. I would store every part of the address together for a given address. In our new system, we have the similar set up as above, but we only keep the ZipID (ID, for the city, state and Zip) with the address. The extra joins needed now are a bit of a pita, so I could imagine how much more it would be to use a junction table containing an CSZid, CityID, Stid & ZipID. I guess it all boils down to what level of normalization do you want to go? 3rd, 4th? Oh, btw, are you only dealing with US addresses or INTL addresses too? Because that will add some twists too ;) David -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of John Clark Sent: Thursday, March 11, 2004 12:02 PM To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: [AccessD] question on normalization quick question: I have a program that will be populated with a 'regional' group of people--this meaning that everyone's address will be within this county. So I am thinking that I can speed up entry, by using a drop-down for zip codes and filling the town name from that. My question is, would it be proper to have a separate table for town and another for zip code, even though zip code would be a single field table? The town table would have three tables, with one being a link to the Zip Code table, and the Zip Code table would have a single field--"Zip". Thanks John W Clark -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From my.lists at verizon.net Thu Mar 11 15:57:03 2004 From: my.lists at verizon.net (Francisco H Tapia) Date: Thu, 11 Mar 2004 13:57:03 -0800 Subject: [AccessD] Access 2000 ADP's and DataSheet views - Crosspost In-Reply-To: <4050D933.7070901@shaw.ca> References: <404F8D9B.6050809@verizon.net> <4050D933.7070901@shaw.ca> Message-ID: <4050E0AF.2050903@verizon.net> That's not really the problem tho I didn't know things got worse as you upgraded down the MS Access path :(. The problem occurs when you have for example Columns Priority, OnDate, and Status, and you filter of any combination of the 3, in order to get your view of the subset down. When you then turn around and want to modify data in either one of the filtered/sorted columns, the Datasheet proceeds to drop the filter and sort dumping you out of your filter and previously set sort. however if you sort on a set of fields (mirrors) (sproc looks like this: Select Priority As SortPriority, Priority, OnDate AS SortOnDate, OnDate, Status AS SortOnStatus, Status From Table1 ) now you can use the Sort columns to filter and sort w/o loosing your filter and sort settings in the datasheet. my current workaround is to lock out the sort columns and remember NOT to try to type into them :)... this totaly bites, but it's Access2000 SR1a of course there's gonna be bugs. :( MartyConnelly wrote: > I don't know if this is the cause; just came across it in fixes > manifest of Access XP SP3 just released > > > ACC2002: Error Message: Cannot Apply Filter on One or More Fields That > Are Specified in the Filter Property > > http://support.microsoft.com/default.aspx?kbid=814094 > > This problem may occur when you connect to Microsoft SQL Server with > credentials that are different from the credentials of the owner of > the table that you want to filter. > > Francisco H Tapia wrote: > >> re-posted from the SqlServer list :) >> >> Quick questions, has anyone on the list tried to use a datasheet view >> form bound to a view or sproc and found that if you filter out the >> display (datasheet) that upon making changes to any field the >> datasheet looses it's Filter? >> >> Thanks, >> > -- -Francisco From DMcAfee at haascnc.com Thu Mar 11 16:16:16 2004 From: DMcAfee at haascnc.com (David McAfee) Date: Thu, 11 Mar 2004 14:16:16 -0800 Subject: [AccessD] question on normalization Message-ID: <657FB70438B7D311AF320090279C18010614410A@EXCHMAIL> It was given to me many years ago, and I've just maintained it. I can give you a sample if you need. Our company has purchased "Perfect Address" software which can be called from Access. This is a system that corrects addresses. they put out updates monthly (IIRC). I use it in conjunction with my table. David -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of John W. Colby Sent: Thursday, March 11, 2004 1:55 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] question on normalization David, Did you fill in this table with which Zips were in which town etc.? Or is there a standard db out there somewhere with this stuff? John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of David McAfee Sent: Thursday, March 11, 2004 3:49 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: [AccessD] question on normalization I our last system, we had a Zipcode table with 5 fields (and 45K+ records): ZipID (PK Autonumber) ZipCode (text,5) City (text, 30) State (text, 2) DefaultCity (yes/no) I would look up a city based on zipcode entry. One of three results could happen: 0 records returned: Prompt to check if zipcode entry (later evolved into adding new city) 1 record returned: populate city and state onto form >1 record returned: pop up a mini screen with a list box showing all of the cities using that zipcode. The default city is selected with the OK button having focus. I would store every part of the address together for a given address. In our new system, we have the similar set up as above, but we only keep the ZipID (ID, for the city, state and Zip) with the address. The extra joins needed now are a bit of a pita, so I could imagine how much more it would be to use a junction table containing an CSZid, CityID, Stid & ZipID. I guess it all boils down to what level of normalization do you want to go? 3rd, 4th? Oh, btw, are you only dealing with US addresses or INTL addresses too? Because that will add some twists too ;) David -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of John Clark Sent: Thursday, March 11, 2004 12:02 PM To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: [AccessD] question on normalization quick question: I have a program that will be populated with a 'regional' group of people--this meaning that everyone's address will be within this county. So I am thinking that I can speed up entry, by using a drop-down for zip codes and filling the town name from that. My question is, would it be proper to have a separate table for town and another for zip code, even though zip code would be a single field table? The town table would have three tables, with one being a link to the Zip Code table, and the Zip Code table would have a single field--"Zip". Thanks John W Clark -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From stuart at lexacorp.com.pg Thu Mar 11 16:24:49 2004 From: stuart at lexacorp.com.pg (Stuart McLachlan) Date: Fri, 12 Mar 2004 08:24:49 +1000 Subject: [AccessD] combining date columns In-Reply-To: <31155.63.251.87.214.1079039452.squirrel@heck.bay9.com> References: <657FB70438B7D311AF320090279C180106144105@EXCHMAIL> Message-ID: <405173D1.5774.151259@localhost> On 11 Mar 2004 at 16:10, Oleg_123 at xuppa.com wrote: > Group, > I need to combain 3 date fields into one (where the date apears either in > first column or in second or in third), > I tried [Column1] & [column2] and [column3] as Combined (obviously with > diff names) i am coming up with a field that is not treated like date. > (numeric field prob) > Format([Column1] & [column2] and [column3]),"mm/dd/yyyy" as Combined > > also didn't work. Any suggestions ? > Try Datevalue([Column1] & [column2] and [column3]) -- Lexacorp Ltd http://www.lexacorp.com.pg Information Technology Consultancy, Software Development,System Support. From donald.a.Mcgillivray at mail.sprint.com Thu Mar 11 16:46:52 2004 From: donald.a.Mcgillivray at mail.sprint.com (Mcgillivray, Donald [ITS]) Date: Thu, 11 Mar 2004 16:46:52 -0600 Subject: [AccessD] combining date columns Message-ID: <6FC1C7A6E7BD5540AB0A8436713C43BF0761C7FF@PKDWB01C.ad.sprint.com> Try changing the "and" to "&": [Column1] & [column2] & [column3] as Combined instead of [Column1] & [column2] and [column3] as Combined -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Stuart McLachlan Sent: Thursday, March 11, 2004 2:25 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] combining date columns On 11 Mar 2004 at 16:10, Oleg_123 at xuppa.com wrote: > Group, > I need to combain 3 date fields into one (where the date apears either in > first column or in second or in third), > I tried [Column1] & [column2] and [column3] as Combined (obviously with > diff names) i am coming up with a field that is not treated like date. > (numeric field prob) > Format([Column1] & [column2] and [column3]),"mm/dd/yyyy" as Combined > > also didn't work. Any suggestions ? > Try Datevalue([Column1] & [column2] and [column3]) -- Lexacorp Ltd http://www.lexacorp.com.pg Information Technology Consultancy, Software Development,System Support. -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From stuart at lexacorp.com.pg Thu Mar 11 16:55:21 2004 From: stuart at lexacorp.com.pg (Stuart McLachlan) Date: Fri, 12 Mar 2004 08:55:21 +1000 Subject: [AccessD] combining date columns In-Reply-To: <6FC1C7A6E7BD5540AB0A8436713C43BF0761C7FF@PKDWB01C.ad.sprint.com> Message-ID: <40517AF9.10199.31063B@localhost> I didn't notice that one at all. Just goes to show how much we see what we expect to see :-( On 11 Mar 2004 at 16:46, Mcgillivray, Donald [ITS] wrote: > Try changing the "and" to "&": > > [Column1] & [column2] & [column3] as Combined instead of > > [Column1] & [column2] and [column3] as Combined > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Stuart > McLachlan > Sent: Thursday, March 11, 2004 2:25 PM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: Re: [AccessD] combining date columns > > > On 11 Mar 2004 at 16:10, Oleg_123 at xuppa.com wrote: > > > Group, > > I need to combain 3 date fields into one (where the date apears either > in > > first column or in second or in third), > > I tried [Column1] & [column2] and [column3] as Combined (obviously > with > > diff names) i am coming up with a field that is not treated like date. > > (numeric field prob) > > Format([Column1] & [column2] and [column3]),"mm/dd/yyyy" as Combined > > > > also didn't work. Any suggestions ? > > > Try Datevalue([Column1] & [column2] and [column3]) > > > -- > Lexacorp Ltd > http://www.lexacorp.com.pg > Information Technology Consultancy, Software Development,System > Support. > > > > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- Lexacorp Ltd http://www.lexacorp.com.pg Information Technology Consultancy, Software Development,System Support. From davesharpe2 at cox.net Thu Mar 11 16:57:45 2004 From: davesharpe2 at cox.net (Dave Sharpe) Date: Thu, 11 Mar 2004 17:57:45 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] combining date columns References: <657FB70438B7D311AF320090279C180106144105@EXCHMAIL> <31155.63.251.87.214.1079039452.squirrel@heck.bay9.com> Message-ID: <00db01c407bc$449db9d0$dd2f0a44@bcsext6137> Oleg What do You expect to be the result to be? 1/1/2002 & 12/31/2003 & 2/22/2004 as a date ? Dave ----- Original Message ----- From: To: Sent: Thursday, March 11, 2004 4:10 PM Subject: [AccessD] combining date columns Group, I need to combain 3 date fields into one (where the date apears either in first column or in second or in third), I tried [Column1] & [column2] and [column3] as Combined (obviously with diff names) i am coming up with a field that is not treated like date. (numeric field prob) Format([Column1] & [column2] and [column3]),"mm/dd/yyyy" as Combined also didn't work. Any suggestions ? ----------------------------------------- Get Breaking News from CNN, ABC, NBC, CBS Now. http://www.xuppa.com/news/?link=webmail -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From stuart at lexacorp.com.pg Thu Mar 11 17:03:08 2004 From: stuart at lexacorp.com.pg (Stuart McLachlan) Date: Fri, 12 Mar 2004 09:03:08 +1000 Subject: [AccessD] combining date columns In-Reply-To: <00db01c407bc$449db9d0$dd2f0a44@bcsext6137> Message-ID: <40517CCC.12532.3826D1@localhost> On 11 Mar 2004 at 17:57, Dave Sharpe wrote: > Oleg > > What do You expect to be the result to be? > > 1/1/2002 & 12/31/2003 & 2/22/2004 as a date ? > > Dave > Oleg said "where the date apears either in first column or in second or in third". I assumed that the other two columns would be Null. -- Lexacorp Ltd http://www.lexacorp.com.pg Information Technology Consultancy, Software Development,System Support. From davesharpe2 at cox.net Thu Mar 11 17:09:07 2004 From: davesharpe2 at cox.net (Dave Sharpe) Date: Thu, 11 Mar 2004 18:09:07 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] combining date columns References: <657FB70438B7D311AF320090279C180106144105@EXCHMAIL> <31155.63.251.87.214.1079039452.squirrel@heck.bay9.com> Message-ID: <00f401c407bd$dab0cdd0$dd2f0a44@bcsext6137> Oleg I'd suggest selecting it not trying to combine. theDate = iif(Column1 is not null, Column1, iif(Column2 is not null, Column2, Column3 ) ) Dave ----- Original Message ----- From: To: Sent: Thursday, March 11, 2004 4:10 PM Subject: [AccessD] combining date columns Group, I need to combain 3 date fields into one (where the date apears either in first column or in second or in third), I tried [Column1] & [column2] and [column3] as Combined (obviously with diff names) i am coming up with a field that is not treated like date. (numeric field prob) Format([Column1] & [column2] and [column3]),"mm/dd/yyyy" as Combined also didn't work. Any suggestions ? ----------------------------------------- Get Breaking News from CNN, ABC, NBC, CBS Now. http://www.xuppa.com/news/?link=webmail -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From joeget at vgernet.net Thu Mar 11 17:16:20 2004 From: joeget at vgernet.net (John Eget) Date: Thu, 11 Mar 2004 18:16:20 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] date on HP PCs Message-ID: <00b701c407be$e0afba10$7dc2f63f@Desktop> I had the oddest thing happen today, My databases do not show =Date(), but only on the new HPs in work. Has anyone come across this before? John From Oleg_123 at xuppa.com Thu Mar 11 17:14:01 2004 From: Oleg_123 at xuppa.com (Oleg_123 at xuppa.com) Date: Thu, 11 Mar 2004 18:14:01 -0500 (EST) Subject: [AccessD] combining date columns In-Reply-To: <00f401c407bd$dab0cdd0$dd2f0a44@bcsext6137> References: <657FB70438B7D311AF320090279C180106144105@EXCHMAIL> <31155.63.251.87.214.1079039452.squirrel@heck.bay9.com> <00f401c407bd$dab0cdd0$dd2f0a44@bcsext6137> Message-ID: <3075.24.187.36.171.1079046841.squirrel@heck.bay9.com> Dave thanks, this looks like the best solution; I'll try that tomorrow > Oleg > > I'd suggest selecting it not trying to combine. > > theDate = iif(Column1 is not null, Column1, iif(Column2 is not null, > Column2, Column3 ) ) > > Dave > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: > To: > Sent: Thursday, March 11, 2004 4:10 PM > Subject: [AccessD] combining date columns > > > Group, > I need to combain 3 date fields into one (where the date apears either > in first column or in second or in third), > I tried [Column1] & [column2] and [column3] as Combined (obviously with > diff names) i am coming up with a field that is not treated like date. > (numeric field prob) > Format([Column1] & [column2] and [column3]),"mm/dd/yyyy" as Combined > > also didn't work. Any suggestions ? > > > ----------------------------------------- > Get Breaking News from CNN, ABC, NBC, CBS Now. > http://www.xuppa.com/news/?link=webmail > > > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com ----------------------------------------- Get Breaking News from CNN, ABC, NBC, CBS Now. http://www.xuppa.com/news/?link=webmail From joeget at vgernet.net Thu Mar 11 17:17:51 2004 From: joeget at vgernet.net (John Eget) Date: Thu, 11 Mar 2004 18:17:51 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] active design view in mde Message-ID: <00bb01c407bf$16f80f00$7dc2f63f@Desktop> Is there anyway to active design view in an application that had been compiled in an mde format? Thanks John From davesharpe2 at cox.net Thu Mar 11 17:31:14 2004 From: davesharpe2 at cox.net (Dave Sharpe) Date: Thu, 11 Mar 2004 18:31:14 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] combining date columns References: <40517CCC.12532.3826D1@localhost> Message-ID: <011001c407c0$f1c7b990$dd2f0a44@bcsext6137> Stuart Thank You for the clarification I sure missed that. Dave ----- Original Message ----- From: "Stuart McLachlan" To: "Access Developers discussion and problemsolving" Sent: Thursday, March 11, 2004 6:03 PM Subject: Re: [AccessD] combining date columns On 11 Mar 2004 at 17:57, Dave Sharpe wrote: > Oleg > > What do You expect to be the result to be? > > 1/1/2002 & 12/31/2003 & 2/22/2004 as a date ? > > Dave > Oleg said "where the date apears either in first column or in second or in third". I assumed that the other two columns would be Null. -- Lexacorp Ltd http://www.lexacorp.com.pg Information Technology Consultancy, Software Development,System Support. From davesharpe2 at cox.net Thu Mar 11 17:31:44 2004 From: davesharpe2 at cox.net (Dave Sharpe) Date: Thu, 11 Mar 2004 18:31:44 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] combining date columns References: <657FB70438B7D311AF320090279C180106144105@EXCHMAIL><31155.63.251.87.214.1079039452.squirrel@heck.bay9.com><00f401c407bd$dab0cdd0$dd2f0a44@bcsext6137> <3075.24.187.36.171.1079046841.squirrel@heck.bay9.com> Message-ID: <011701c407c1$03bac1b0$dd2f0a44@bcsext6137> Oleg You welcome Dave ----- Original Message ----- From: To: Sent: Thursday, March 11, 2004 6:14 PM Subject: Re: [AccessD] combining date columns Dave thanks, this looks like the best solution; I'll try that tomorrow > Oleg > > I'd suggest selecting it not trying to combine. > > theDate = iif(Column1 is not null, Column1, iif(Column2 is not null, > Column2, Column3 ) ) > > Dave > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: > To: > Sent: Thursday, March 11, 2004 4:10 PM > Subject: [AccessD] combining date columns > > > Group, > I need to combain 3 date fields into one (where the date apears either > in first column or in second or in third), > I tried [Column1] & [column2] and [column3] as Combined (obviously with > diff names) i am coming up with a field that is not treated like date. > (numeric field prob) > Format([Column1] & [column2] and [column3]),"mm/dd/yyyy" as Combined > > also didn't work. Any suggestions ? > > > ----------------------------------------- > Get Breaking News from CNN, ABC, NBC, CBS Now. > http://www.xuppa.com/news/?link=webmail > > > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com ----------------------------------------- Get Breaking News from CNN, ABC, NBC, CBS Now. http://www.xuppa.com/news/?link=webmail -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From joeget at vgernet.net Thu Mar 11 18:38:44 2004 From: joeget at vgernet.net (John Eget) Date: Thu, 11 Mar 2004 19:38:44 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] access graph on a report to a power point slide Message-ID: <014901c407ca$653c10c0$7dc2f63f@Desktop> > I am trying to automate, without going to design view, the ability of > > taking an access graph on a report and putting it on a power point > > slide. Do you have a successful method of doing this? > > Thanks > > John.Eget From joeget at vgernet.net Thu Mar 11 18:39:24 2004 From: joeget at vgernet.net (John Eget) Date: Thu, 11 Mar 2004 19:39:24 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] date function Message-ID: <015201c407ca$7b6a78a0$7dc2f63f@Desktop> I had the oddest thing happen today, My databases do not show =Date(), but only on the new HPs in work. Has anyone come across this before? John From Subscriptions at servicexp.com Thu Mar 11 18:41:53 2004 From: Subscriptions at servicexp.com (Robert Gracie) Date: Thu, 11 Mar 2004 19:41:53 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] active design view in mde In-Reply-To: <00bb01c407bf$16f80f00$7dc2f63f@Desktop> Message-ID: If I understand your question,...No you can't. Robert Gracie www.servicexp.com -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of John Eget Sent: Thursday, March 11, 2004 6:18 PM To: AccessD at databaseadvisors.com Subject: [AccessD] active design view in mde Is there anyway to active design view in an application that had been compiled in an mde format? Thanks John -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From d.dick at uws.edu.au Thu Mar 11 18:44:58 2004 From: d.dick at uws.edu.au (Darren DICK) Date: Fri, 12 Mar 2004 11:44:58 +1100 Subject: [AccessD] active design view in mde References: <00bb01c407bf$16f80f00$7dc2f63f@Desktop> Message-ID: <004c01c407cb$3eb6f630$48619a89@DDICK> Hi John No is the short answer, though you can get at the queries and the tables Darren ----- Original Message ----- From: "John Eget" To: Sent: Friday, March 12, 2004 10:17 AM Subject: [AccessD] active design view in mde > Is there anyway to active design view in an application that had been compiled in an mde format? > Thanks > John > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From KIsmert at TexasSystems.com Thu Mar 11 18:52:11 2004 From: KIsmert at TexasSystems.com (Ken Ismert) Date: Thu, 11 Mar 2004 18:52:11 -0600 Subject: [AccessD] ParamArray problem In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <000301c407cc$4172c560$2a3ca8c0@TEXASSYSTEMS.COM> John, Since variants can hold objects, and ParamArrays hold variants, I see no reason why you can't pass a ParamArray of objects in your code. What version of Access are you using? I made this simple code in A2K, SP3: Private Sub TestParamArraySub(ByRef rObj As Object, ParamArray vParms() As Variant) Dim vParm As Variant Debug.Print "LBound: " & LBound(vParms), "UBound: " & UBound(vParms) For Each vParm In vParms() Debug.Print vParm Next End Sub When I call it with TestParamArraySub Nothing, I get: LBound: 0 UBound: -1 I traced it, and the Debug.Print does not get executed with an empty ParamArray. In other words, correct operation. Is this a service pack or update issue? Perhaps you should decompile? -Ken From martyconnelly at shaw.ca Thu Mar 11 19:09:47 2004 From: martyconnelly at shaw.ca (MartyConnelly) Date: Thu, 11 Mar 2004 17:09:47 -0800 Subject: [AccessD] date on HP PCs References: <00b701c407be$e0afba10$7dc2f63f@Desktop> Message-ID: <40510DDB.2090208@shaw.ca> Probably a missing reference. On the HP's open up the mdb modules Tools--> Reference and check for the flagged missing ones. You may have something like a specific reference pointer to ADO MDAC 2.5 and say you are using WinXP( it will only have ADO 2.7 by default.) John Eget wrote: >I had the oddest thing happen today, My databases do not show =Date(), but only on the new HPs in work. >Has anyone come across this before? >John > > -- Marty Connelly Victoria, B.C. Canada From martyconnelly at shaw.ca Thu Mar 11 19:05:15 2004 From: martyconnelly at shaw.ca (MartyConnelly) Date: Thu, 11 Mar 2004 17:05:15 -0800 Subject: [AccessD] Access 2000 ADP's and DataSheet views - Crosspost References: <404F8D9B.6050809@verizon.net> <4050D933.7070901@shaw.ca> <4050E0AF.2050903@verizon.net> Message-ID: <40510CCB.8000905@shaw.ca> Acckk. Is there some reason you haven't gone to Access or Office 2000 SR-3? It has been out almost 3 years. Francisco H Tapia wrote: > That's not really the problem tho I didn't know things got worse as > you upgraded down the MS Access path :(. > > The problem occurs when you have for example Columns Priority, OnDate, > and Status, and you filter of any combination of the 3, in order to > get your view of the subset down. > > When you then turn around and want to modify data in either one of the > filtered/sorted columns, the Datasheet proceeds to drop the filter and > sort dumping you out of your filter and previously set sort. > > however if you sort on a set of fields (mirrors) > (sproc looks like this: > Select > Priority As SortPriority, > Priority, > OnDate AS SortOnDate, > OnDate, > Status AS SortOnStatus, > Status > From Table1 > ) > > now you can use the Sort columns to filter and sort w/o loosing your > filter and sort settings in the datasheet. my current workaround is > to lock out the sort columns and remember NOT to try to type into them > :)... this totaly bites, but it's Access2000 SR1a of course there's > gonna be bugs. :( > > > MartyConnelly wrote: > >> I don't know if this is the cause; just came across it in fixes >> manifest of Access XP SP3 just released >> >> >> ACC2002: Error Message: Cannot Apply Filter on One or More Fields That >> Are Specified in the Filter Property >> >> http://support.microsoft.com/default.aspx?kbid=814094 >> >> This problem may occur when you connect to Microsoft SQL Server with >> credentials that are different from the credentials of the owner of >> the table that you want to filter. >> >> Francisco H Tapia wrote: >> >>> re-posted from the SqlServer list :) >>> >>> Quick questions, has anyone on the list tried to use a datasheet >>> view form bound to a view or sproc and found that if you filter out >>> the display (datasheet) that upon making changes to any field the >>> datasheet looses it's Filter? >>> >>> Thanks, >>> >> > > -- Marty Connelly Victoria, B.C. Canada From jmhla at earthlink.net Thu Mar 11 19:14:07 2004 From: jmhla at earthlink.net (jmhla at earthlink.net) Date: Thu, 11 Mar 2004 20:14:07 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Watching Data Attn:John Colby Message-ID: <115380-2200435121147447@M2W058.mail2web.com> John, I was looking thriugh the downloads of the Access Web Ring. http://www.mvps.org/access/resources/downloads.htm There was an A97(?) sample of a history db to watch changes in tables. Will that help you? -------------------------------------------------------------------- mail2web - Check your email from the web at http://mail2web.com/ . From martyconnelly at shaw.ca Thu Mar 11 20:07:37 2004 From: martyconnelly at shaw.ca (MartyConnelly) Date: Thu, 11 Mar 2004 18:07:37 -0800 Subject: [AccessD] active design view in mde References: <00bb01c407bf$16f80f00$7dc2f63f@Desktop> Message-ID: <40511B69.1070200@shaw.ca> Nope cause you can't recompile the original source. You might be able to write your own emulation VBA code, but definitely not for the feint of heart. Or buy a license for VBA and write it into a VB6 program or maybe put all your main code into a mda that is compiled with removed source and do your design view procedures from an mdb that calls all your code from the mda. Licensed VBA was around $10,000 a few years back from Summit Software which can reduced a lot by assigning royalties. They may have lowered the cost again. http://msdn.microsoft.com/vba/license/process.asp John Eget wrote: >Is there anyway to active design view in an application that had been compiled in an mde format? >Thanks >John > > -- Marty Connelly Victoria, B.C. Canada From martyconnelly at shaw.ca Thu Mar 11 20:29:46 2004 From: martyconnelly at shaw.ca (MartyConnelly) Date: Thu, 11 Mar 2004 18:29:46 -0800 Subject: [AccessD] question on normalization References: Message-ID: <4051209A.8030800@shaw.ca> There are three or four good web services like USPS that provide this info, live via a soap call, of course you need an internet connection. You can interrogate these services from Access with just XML and a SOAP envelope over HTTP. You dont need all the soap toolkit jazz unless you want to write the proxy classes. They will also verify that the address is valid too. Such as street name spelling and number range. You can also buy the info via quarterly CD's. John W. Colby wrote: >David, > >Did you fill in this table with which Zips were in which town etc.? Or is >there a standard db out there somewhere with this stuff? > >John W. Colby >www.ColbyConsulting.com > >-----Original Message----- >From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com >[mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of David McAfee >Sent: Thursday, March 11, 2004 3:49 PM >To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' >Subject: RE: [AccessD] question on normalization > > >I our last system, we had a Zipcode table with 5 fields (and 45K+ records): >ZipID (PK Autonumber) >ZipCode (text,5) >City (text, 30) >State (text, 2) >DefaultCity (yes/no) > >I would look up a city based on zipcode entry. One of three results could >happen: > >0 records returned: Prompt to check if zipcode entry (later evolved into >adding new city) >1 record returned: populate city and state onto form > > >>1 record returned: pop up a mini screen with a list box showing all of the >> >> >cities using that zipcode. The default city is selected with the OK button >having focus. > >I would store every part of the address together for a given address. > >In our new system, we have the similar set up as above, but we only keep the >ZipID (ID, for the city, state and Zip) with the address. >The extra joins needed now are a bit of a pita, so I could imagine how much >more it would be to use a junction table containing an CSZid, CityID, Stid & >ZipID. > >I guess it all boils down to what level of normalization do you want to go? >3rd, 4th? > >Oh, btw, are you only dealing with US addresses or INTL addresses too? >Because that will add some twists too ;) >David > > > >-----Original Message----- >From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com >[mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of John Clark >Sent: Thursday, March 11, 2004 12:02 PM >To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com >Subject: [AccessD] question on normalization > > >quick question: > >I have a program that will be populated with a 'regional' group of >people--this meaning that everyone's address will be within this county. >So I am thinking that I can speed up entry, by using a drop-down for zip >codes and filling the town name from that. My question is, would it be >proper to have a separate table for town and another for zip code, even >though zip code would be a single field table? The town table would have >three tables, with one being a link to the Zip Code table, and the Zip >Code table would have a single field--"Zip". > >Thanks > >John W Clark > > >-- >_______________________________________________ >AccessD mailing list >AccessD at databaseadvisors.com >http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd >Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com >-- >_______________________________________________ >AccessD mailing list >AccessD at databaseadvisors.com >http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd >Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > > -- Marty Connelly Victoria, B.C. Canada From dwaters at usinternet.com Thu Mar 11 20:35:17 2004 From: dwaters at usinternet.com (Dan Waters) Date: Thu, 11 Mar 2004 20:35:17 -0600 Subject: [AccessD] date function In-Reply-To: <622421.1079052008202.JavaMail.root@sniper2.marix.com> Message-ID: <000001c407da$a82887f0$de1811d8@DanWaters> John, In every database I've made on every PC, if I type in Date(), the two parentheses disappear and the word Date is left (in VBA code). In the source property for a control, if I typed in =Date(), what I typed in always stayed, but occasionally (and unrepeatedly), the function didn't work. I found out that that the =Now() function always worked if typed into a control's source property. So I quite typing =Date() into the source property of a control and instead call the following function which is stored in a standard module: Public Function CurrentDate() As Date CurrentDate = CDate(DatePart("m", Now()) & "/" & DatePart("d", Now()) _ & "/" & DatePart("yyyy", Now())) End Function HTH, Dan Waters -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of John Eget Sent: Thursday, March 11, 2004 6:39 PM To: AccessD at databaseadvisors.com Subject: [AccessD] date function I had the oddest thing happen today, My databases do not show =Date(), but only on the new HPs in work. Has anyone come across this before? John -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com Thu Mar 11 20:45:32 2004 From: jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com (John W. Colby) Date: Thu, 11 Mar 2004 21:45:32 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] question on normalization In-Reply-To: <4051209A.8030800@shaw.ca> Message-ID: uhhh... do you have code to do this? I am fresh out of soap, my 3 year old son was playing with it and... well.... let's just say he's one clean little boy! ;-) John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of MartyConnelly Sent: Thursday, March 11, 2004 9:30 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] question on normalization There are three or four good web services like USPS that provide this info, live via a soap call, of course you need an internet connection. You can interrogate these services from Access with just XML and a SOAP envelope over HTTP. You dont need all the soap toolkit jazz unless you want to write the proxy classes. They will also verify that the address is valid too. Such as street name spelling and number range. You can also buy the info via quarterly CD's. John W. Colby wrote: >David, > >Did you fill in this table with which Zips were in which town etc.? Or is >there a standard db out there somewhere with this stuff? > >John W. Colby >www.ColbyConsulting.com > >-----Original Message----- >From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com >[mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of David McAfee >Sent: Thursday, March 11, 2004 3:49 PM >To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' >Subject: RE: [AccessD] question on normalization > > >I our last system, we had a Zipcode table with 5 fields (and 45K+ records): >ZipID (PK Autonumber) >ZipCode (text,5) >City (text, 30) >State (text, 2) >DefaultCity (yes/no) > >I would look up a city based on zipcode entry. One of three results could >happen: > >0 records returned: Prompt to check if zipcode entry (later evolved into >adding new city) >1 record returned: populate city and state onto form > > >>1 record returned: pop up a mini screen with a list box showing all of the >> >> >cities using that zipcode. The default city is selected with the OK button >having focus. > >I would store every part of the address together for a given address. > >In our new system, we have the similar set up as above, but we only keep the >ZipID (ID, for the city, state and Zip) with the address. >The extra joins needed now are a bit of a pita, so I could imagine how much >more it would be to use a junction table containing an CSZid, CityID, Stid & >ZipID. > >I guess it all boils down to what level of normalization do you want to go? >3rd, 4th? > >Oh, btw, are you only dealing with US addresses or INTL addresses too? >Because that will add some twists too ;) >David > > > >-----Original Message----- >From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com >[mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of John Clark >Sent: Thursday, March 11, 2004 12:02 PM >To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com >Subject: [AccessD] question on normalization > > >quick question: > >I have a program that will be populated with a 'regional' group of >people--this meaning that everyone's address will be within this county. >So I am thinking that I can speed up entry, by using a drop-down for zip >codes and filling the town name from that. My question is, would it be >proper to have a separate table for town and another for zip code, even >though zip code would be a single field table? The town table would have >three tables, with one being a link to the Zip Code table, and the Zip >Code table would have a single field--"Zip". > >Thanks > >John W Clark > > >-- >_______________________________________________ >AccessD mailing list >AccessD at databaseadvisors.com >http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd >Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com >-- >_______________________________________________ >AccessD mailing list >AccessD at databaseadvisors.com >http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd >Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > > -- Marty Connelly Victoria, B.C. Canada -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com Thu Mar 11 20:51:57 2004 From: jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com (John W. Colby) Date: Thu, 11 Mar 2004 21:51:57 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Framework Discussion - Class Interface In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Unfortunately it has come to the point in our discussion where we have to add a little common interface to all of our classes in order to provide us with troubleshooting tools and debugging help. If you remember from Collections, classes and Garbage Collection I discussed some of the issues with classes, particularly those classes which reference forms and controls. Unless we are careful we can create problems unloading the classes, which can cause memory leaks and even cause Access to fail to close. Well its time to address those issues. Please bear with me here, I really don't want to lose anyone over these issues and the required code, but I know it can take a little while to get used to this stuff being in the class headers "clouding the issue". I am going to discuss a Template class which can then be cut and copied to start a new class. All of the necessary interface structures are there; we just add our own class specific stuff to flesh out our new class. You can see all of this code in one place in clsTemplate in the example code database. The Comment Block The first thing we need to do is add a standard header to our classes. I use a section for the typical author, date, copyright etc. This area is used to extensively document this class, with behaviors explained, why we have them, as much documentation as you can put in here so that when you come back next week you can figure out what you were doing. '.============================================================= '.Copyright 2004 Colby Consulting. All rights reserved. '.Phone : '.E-mail : jcolby at colbyconsulting.com '.============================================================= ' DO NOT DELETE THE COMMENTS ABOVE. All other comments in this module ' may be deleted from production code, but lines above must remain. '-------------------------------------------------------------- '.Description : '. '.Written By : John W. Colby '.Date Created : 02/26/2004 ' Rev. History : ' ' Comments : '.------------------------------------------------------------- '. ' ADDITIONAL NOTES: ' '-------------------------------------------------------------- ' ' INSTRUCTIONS: '.------------------------------------------------------------- '. Below that I add standard sections for constants and variables, with some of these already defined. 'THESE CONSTANTS AND VARIABLES ARE USED INTERNALLY TO THE CLASS '*+ Class constant declaration Private Const DebugPrint As Boolean = False Private Const mcstrModuleName As String = "clsFW" '*- Class constants declaration DebugPrint will ultimately allow us to turn on/off printing of debug statements in this specific module. We do this by calling a debugprint function instead of just putting debug.print statements directly in code. We pass in the constant above and the statement prints or doesn't based on the value of the constant passed in. Set it true and all debug statements in the module will print, set it false, they don't print. We have a constant mcstrModuleName that holds a string that is literally the class' module name as seen in the database window, modules tab. Private Const mcstrModuleName As String = "clsFW" Next come class variables: '*+ Class variables declarations 'POINTER TO THE OBJECT THAT CREATED THIS CLASS INSTANCE (THE PARENT OF THE CLASS) Private mobjParent As Object 'THE CHILDREN COLLECTION IS USED TO STORE REFERENCES TO ALL CHILD OBJECTS (CLASSES) THAT NEED TO BE INITIALIZED AND DESTROYED. USUALLY THESE WILL BE FOR CONTROLS SUCH AS THE TAB CONTROL OR THE RECORD SELECTOR, BUT THEY MAY ALSO BE FOR BUSINESS RULES CLASSES, etc. Private mobjChildren As Collection 'THE STRING INSTANCE NAME IS BUILT UP FROM THE MODULE NAME AND A RANDOM INT Public mstrInstanceName As String Public mstrName As String '*- Class variables declarations At this point we also need to discuss some of the process that we use for "automating" the setup and teardown of classes because the entire standard header is used for this purpose. You will add your own variables in here but the stuff you see so far is all framework interface. Classes rarely "standalone" in the framework. There are often classes that use child classes, which may themselves use child classes. A good example is the dclsFrm (the form class) uses dclsCbo (the combo class) which will use dclsDepObj (the dependent object class). Obviously the form class may have dozens of control classes found and instantiated by the control scanner function, with pointers to these control classes stored in a collection. A combo may have one or several objects which "depend on it" to filter its data, thus the combo class has a clsDepObj which stores pointers to classes for the controls that depend on the combo. All of this class using class using class begs for a common interface that is just always there in every class. Thus each class is passed a pointer to its parent object which is then stored in mobjParent. '*+ Class variables declarations 'POINTER TO THE OBJECT THAT CREATED THIS CLASS INSTANCE (THE PARENT OF THE CLASS) Private mobjParent As Object The parent object is the class that instantiated this class. dclsFrm is the parent object to dclsCbo. dclsCbo is the parent object to clsDepObj and so forth. A form passes "Me" to dclsFrm, dclsFrm passes "Me" to dclsCbo, dclsCbo passes "Me" to clsDepObj etc. Me in all three cases means the pointer to the current class. Me in the form means the form's built-in class, me in dclsFrm means a pointer to that dclsFrm instance. By passing a pointer to the parent, any child class can get at any of the parent's properties and methods that it may need. In fact the parent object may have properties and methods added just for the express use of specific child classes that it knows it must deal with. Additionally, each class has a children collection which we name mcolChildren. mcolChildren holds pointers to child objects (classes). 'THE CHILDREN COLLECTION IS USED TO STORE REFERENCES TO ALL CHILD OBJECTS (CLASSES) THAT NEED TO BE INITIALIZED AND DESTROYED. USUALLY THESE WILL BE FOR CONTROLS SUCH AS THE TAB CONTROL OR THE RECORD SELECTOR, BUT THEY MAY ALSO BE FOR BUSINESS RULES CLASSES, etc. Private mobjChildren As Collection The string instance name is built from mcstrModuleName and other info. I am moving to a "lineage name" meaning each class uses it's parent's name plus it's class name. That makes it very easy to tell how any given class "came to be". 'THE STRING INSTANCE NAME IS BUILT UP FROM THE MODULE NAME AND A RANDOM INT Public mstrInstanceName As String And finally a simple name variable Public mstrName As String This variable will usually be the simple name used as the key when the class is saved in its parent's children class. In other words, a class is always saved in its parent's children collection so that the parent can clean up all of its children when the parent class terminates. The name used as the key into this collection is often something simple like a control name. We do this so that we can just index into the class using a readily available piece of information (the control's name) to get the class associated with that object. Functional Constants and Variables I like to organize the header with all the constants grouped together, the variables, then any custom events declared that this class may raise. If a class gets very complicated it may be convenient to group functional pieces together. Bottom line, this is about organization and as long as you make an effort to routinely follow organizational guidelines you will be better off than if you just let madness reign. '.------------------------------------------------------------- 'THESE CONSTANTS AND VARIABLES ARE USED BY THE CLASS TO IMPLEMENT CLASS FUNCTIONALITY '*+ custom constants declaration ' '*- Custom constants declaration '*+ custom variables declarations ' Private WithEvents mfrm As Form 'A form reference passed in '*- custom variables declarations ' 'Define any events this class will raise here '*+ custom events Declarations 'Public Event MyEvent(Status As Integer) '*- custom events declarations Class Init/Term Next I place the class' Initialize sub with all Set statements instantiating any objects that the class dimensions in its header. Initialize is an Event handler, i.e. the class fires this event when the SET statement instantiates the class and the class starts to load. '.------------------------------------------------------------- 'THESE FUNCTIONS / SUBS ARE USED INTERNALLY TO THE CLASS '*+ Private Init/Terminate Interface Private Sub Class_Initialize() On Error GoTo Err_Class_Initialize assDebugPrint "initialize " & mcstrModuleName, DebugPrint Set mcolChildren = New Collection Exit_Class_Initialize: Exit Sub Err_Class_Initialize: MsgBox err.Description, , "Error in Sub clsTemplate.Class_Initialize" Resume Exit_Class_Initialize Resume 0 '.FOR TROUBLESHOOTING End Sub Init() is the first class method usually called, and here we pass in variables to the class that we need in order to get the ball rolling. 'INITIALIZE THE CLASS Public Sub Init(ByRef robjParent As Object) Set mobjParent = robjParent 'IF THE PARENT OBJECT HAS A CHILDREN COLLECTION, PUT MYSELF IN IT assDebugPrint "init " & mstrInstanceName, DebugPrint End Sub The class Terminate event fires when the last pointer to the class is set to nothing. Private Sub Class_Terminate() On Error Resume Next assDebugPrint "Terminate " & mcstrModuleName, DebugPrint Term End Sub Term() is a class method and it is normally called by the cleanup code of the object that created this class instance in the first place. For example, dclsFrm creates a class instance for each control and places a pointer to that class in its Children collection. dclsFrm will then iterate this collection, calling the term method of all the child objects in the children collection when the form is closing, before removing the pointers to the objects from the collection. I also call term from the class' Terminate event. In all cases a class will close automatically when the last pointer to the class is set to nothing. Thus in theory just setting the pointer to the class to nothing should cause terminate to fire, which calls term. This seems like "double work" and in fact it is, however I do so because it is quite possible to set a reference to self for instance, where this class needs to hold itself open regardless of anything else. If I have a pointer to the class in some other class, and I just set that pointer to nothing, then the class still remains open since the last pointer to it still exists, in its own header. However if I call the terminate method, I clean up all pointers including pointer to self, then when I set my external pointer to this class instance to nothing, the class will close properly. This is not a scenario that is used often, but it is used and I just like to play it safe by always calling the term() of a class instance, then set the pointer to the class to nothing, which fires the terminate event, which does call term again. We can do something like setting a static variable in term to tell us that the term() method already ran and not to run it again the second time. 'CLEAN UP ALL OF THE CLASS POINTERS Public Sub Term() On Error Resume Next Static blnRan As Boolean 'The term may run more than once so If blnRan Then Exit Sub 'just exit if it already ran blnRan = True assDebugPrint "Term() " & mcstrModuleName, DebugPrint Set mobjParent = Nothing Set mcolChildren = Nothing End Sub '*- Public Init/Terminate interface Standard Properties and Methods We have discussed the header and the init / term interface. Next we need to discuss standard properties and methods. Obviously we need a way for other classes (or the developer) to get at the data in the header. The ModuleName string, InstanceName, and Name are all properties that just read the constants or variables holding these data and return them as strings. In order to group them in Intellisense I use Name as the first part of the property. 'get the name of this class / module Property Get NameModule() As String NameModule = mcstrModuleName End Property Public Property Get Name() As String Name = mstrName End Property Public Property Get NameInstance() As String NameInstance = mstrInstanceName End Property Public Property Let NameInstance(strName As String) mstrInstanceName = strName End Property And finally we have properties that get the parent object and the children collection. '*+ Parent/Child links interface 'get the pointer to this object's parent Public Property Get Parent() As Object Set Parent = mobjParent End Property 'get the pointer to this object's children Public Property Get Children() As Collection Set Children = mcolChildren End Property '*- Parent/Child links interface The above is all of the standard class interface. It is important to understand that all of the above is in every class, which gives us a very standardized interface to what I will call the framework class interface. These things have very little to do with the functionality of the class, what the class actually does in the framework. All it does is let us set up and tear down the classes in a standard way. That may be the most critical piece however since if a class doesn't terminate it can under certain circumstances hang Access, which can unfortunately even hang the lesser Windows versions such as Windows 98. The three finger salute is not something I want my app forcing on the user! Organizing Class functionality Finally, the sections below are just more organizational stuff. I like to group all like things together. Again this is your call as to whether you want to do this kind of organization. '.------------------------------------------------------------------------- 'THESE FUNCTIONS SINK EVENTS DECLARED WITHEVENTS IN THIS CLASS '*+ Form WithEvent interface '*- Form WithEvent interface 'THESE FUNCTIONS / SUBS ARE USED TO IMPLEMENT CLASS FUNCTIONALITY '*+PRIVATE Class function / sub declaration '*-PRIVATE Class function / sub declaration '*+PUBLIC Class function / sub declaration '*-PUBLIC Class function / sub declaration Summary A framework is going to get complex, with many classes, classes instantiating other classes, setting up child object chains as they initialize and tearing down their child object chains as they terminate. It is critical that we have a system in place to assist us in getting this piece right or we will end up with chaos and applications that don't cleanup correctly. All of the stuff that I have shown above is an attempt to standardize the setup and teardown so that we can always count on doing things the same way, regardless of what class we are instantiating. Consistency goes a long way towards helping us learn this stuff quickly, and getting all the pieces to play together peacefully. John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com From caa at highway.com.br Thu Mar 11 21:17:55 2004 From: caa at highway.com.br (Carlos Alberto Alves) Date: Fri, 12 Mar 2004 00:17:55 -0300 Subject: [AccessD] Converting Access 97 to Access XP FE& BE In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On Wed, 10 Mar 2004 13:12:18 -0800, Charlotte Foust wrote: > Unless you're planning on using ADO exclusively, DAO works just fine in > XP, and you still have to fall back on DAO for somethings anyhow. XP > has no problem with either CurrentDB or CurrentProject, and there is a > certain basic support for both ADO and DAO built into XP even if you > remove *both* the references. I recommend you go through and > specifically change your declarations throughout to DAO.Recordset, > DAO.Database, etc., both to remove any confusion the engine has and to > make it easier to spot them in your code. There are certain objects > that have the same name in both models, and without the specific > declaration, Access can get them mixed up and think you're trying to use > an invalid method or property. > > Charlotte Foust Hi Greg! I have a .PDF file about DAO to ADO conversion. It is 550Kb. May I send it you offline? -- ****************************** * Carlos Alberto Alves * * Child Neurologist * * Systems Analyst/Programmer * * Rio de Janeiro, Brazil * * mailto:caa at highway.com.br * ****************************** From accessd at shaw.ca Thu Mar 11 22:14:25 2004 From: accessd at shaw.ca (Jim Lawrence (AccessD)) Date: Thu, 11 Mar 2004 20:14:25 -0800 Subject: [AccessD] Framework Discussion - Class Interface In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Fascinating :-) Jim -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of John W. Colby Sent: Thursday, March 11, 2004 6:52 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: [AccessD] Framework Discussion - Class Interface Unfortunately it has come to the point in our discussion where we have to add a little common interface to all of our classes in order to provide us with troubleshooting tools and debugging help. If you remember from Collections, classes and Garbage Collection I discussed some of the issues with classes, particularly those classes which reference forms and controls. Unless we are careful we can create problems unloading the classes, which can cause memory leaks and even cause Access to fail to close. Well its time to address those issues. Please bear with me here, I really don't want to lose anyone over these issues and the required code, but I know it can take a little while to get used to this stuff being in the class headers "clouding the issue". I am going to discuss a Template class which can then be cut and copied to start a new class. All of the necessary interface structures are there; we just add our own class specific stuff to flesh out our new class. You can see all of this code in one place in clsTemplate in the example code database. The Comment Block The first thing we need to do is add a standard header to our classes. I use a section for the typical author, date, copyright etc. This area is used to extensively document this class, with behaviors explained, why we have them, as much documentation as you can put in here so that when you come back next week you can figure out what you were doing. '.============================================================= '.Copyright 2004 Colby Consulting. All rights reserved. '.Phone : '.E-mail : jcolby at colbyconsulting.com '.============================================================= ' DO NOT DELETE THE COMMENTS ABOVE. All other comments in this module ' may be deleted from production code, but lines above must remain. '-------------------------------------------------------------- '.Description : '. '.Written By : John W. Colby '.Date Created : 02/26/2004 ' Rev. History : ' ' Comments : '.------------------------------------------------------------- '. ' ADDITIONAL NOTES: ' '-------------------------------------------------------------- ' ' INSTRUCTIONS: '.------------------------------------------------------------- '. Below that I add standard sections for constants and variables, with some of these already defined. 'THESE CONSTANTS AND VARIABLES ARE USED INTERNALLY TO THE CLASS '*+ Class constant declaration Private Const DebugPrint As Boolean = False Private Const mcstrModuleName As String = "clsFW" '*- Class constants declaration DebugPrint will ultimately allow us to turn on/off printing of debug statements in this specific module. We do this by calling a debugprint function instead of just putting debug.print statements directly in code. We pass in the constant above and the statement prints or doesn't based on the value of the constant passed in. Set it true and all debug statements in the module will print, set it false, they don't print. We have a constant mcstrModuleName that holds a string that is literally the class' module name as seen in the database window, modules tab. Private Const mcstrModuleName As String = "clsFW" Next come class variables: '*+ Class variables declarations 'POINTER TO THE OBJECT THAT CREATED THIS CLASS INSTANCE (THE PARENT OF THE CLASS) Private mobjParent As Object 'THE CHILDREN COLLECTION IS USED TO STORE REFERENCES TO ALL CHILD OBJECTS (CLASSES) THAT NEED TO BE INITIALIZED AND DESTROYED. USUALLY THESE WILL BE FOR CONTROLS SUCH AS THE TAB CONTROL OR THE RECORD SELECTOR, BUT THEY MAY ALSO BE FOR BUSINESS RULES CLASSES, etc. Private mobjChildren As Collection 'THE STRING INSTANCE NAME IS BUILT UP FROM THE MODULE NAME AND A RANDOM INT Public mstrInstanceName As String Public mstrName As String '*- Class variables declarations At this point we also need to discuss some of the process that we use for "automating" the setup and teardown of classes because the entire standard header is used for this purpose. You will add your own variables in here but the stuff you see so far is all framework interface. Classes rarely "standalone" in the framework. There are often classes that use child classes, which may themselves use child classes. A good example is the dclsFrm (the form class) uses dclsCbo (the combo class) which will use dclsDepObj (the dependent object class). Obviously the form class may have dozens of control classes found and instantiated by the control scanner function, with pointers to these control classes stored in a collection. A combo may have one or several objects which "depend on it" to filter its data, thus the combo class has a clsDepObj which stores pointers to classes for the controls that depend on the combo. All of this class using class using class begs for a common interface that is just always there in every class. Thus each class is passed a pointer to its parent object which is then stored in mobjParent. '*+ Class variables declarations 'POINTER TO THE OBJECT THAT CREATED THIS CLASS INSTANCE (THE PARENT OF THE CLASS) Private mobjParent As Object The parent object is the class that instantiated this class. dclsFrm is the parent object to dclsCbo. dclsCbo is the parent object to clsDepObj and so forth. A form passes "Me" to dclsFrm, dclsFrm passes "Me" to dclsCbo, dclsCbo passes "Me" to clsDepObj etc. Me in all three cases means the pointer to the current class. Me in the form means the form's built-in class, me in dclsFrm means a pointer to that dclsFrm instance. By passing a pointer to the parent, any child class can get at any of the parent's properties and methods that it may need. In fact the parent object may have properties and methods added just for the express use of specific child classes that it knows it must deal with. Additionally, each class has a children collection which we name mcolChildren. mcolChildren holds pointers to child objects (classes). 'THE CHILDREN COLLECTION IS USED TO STORE REFERENCES TO ALL CHILD OBJECTS (CLASSES) THAT NEED TO BE INITIALIZED AND DESTROYED. USUALLY THESE WILL BE FOR CONTROLS SUCH AS THE TAB CONTROL OR THE RECORD SELECTOR, BUT THEY MAY ALSO BE FOR BUSINESS RULES CLASSES, etc. Private mobjChildren As Collection The string instance name is built from mcstrModuleName and other info. I am moving to a "lineage name" meaning each class uses it's parent's name plus it's class name. That makes it very easy to tell how any given class "came to be". 'THE STRING INSTANCE NAME IS BUILT UP FROM THE MODULE NAME AND A RANDOM INT Public mstrInstanceName As String And finally a simple name variable Public mstrName As String This variable will usually be the simple name used as the key when the class is saved in its parent's children class. In other words, a class is always saved in its parent's children collection so that the parent can clean up all of its children when the parent class terminates. The name used as the key into this collection is often something simple like a control name. We do this so that we can just index into the class using a readily available piece of information (the control's name) to get the class associated with that object. Functional Constants and Variables I like to organize the header with all the constants grouped together, the variables, then any custom events declared that this class may raise. If a class gets very complicated it may be convenient to group functional pieces together. Bottom line, this is about organization and as long as you make an effort to routinely follow organizational guidelines you will be better off than if you just let madness reign. '.------------------------------------------------------------- 'THESE CONSTANTS AND VARIABLES ARE USED BY THE CLASS TO IMPLEMENT CLASS FUNCTIONALITY '*+ custom constants declaration ' '*- Custom constants declaration '*+ custom variables declarations ' Private WithEvents mfrm As Form 'A form reference passed in '*- custom variables declarations ' 'Define any events this class will raise here '*+ custom events Declarations 'Public Event MyEvent(Status As Integer) '*- custom events declarations Class Init/Term Next I place the class' Initialize sub with all Set statements instantiating any objects that the class dimensions in its header. Initialize is an Event handler, i.e. the class fires this event when the SET statement instantiates the class and the class starts to load. '.------------------------------------------------------------- 'THESE FUNCTIONS / SUBS ARE USED INTERNALLY TO THE CLASS '*+ Private Init/Terminate Interface Private Sub Class_Initialize() On Error GoTo Err_Class_Initialize assDebugPrint "initialize " & mcstrModuleName, DebugPrint Set mcolChildren = New Collection Exit_Class_Initialize: Exit Sub Err_Class_Initialize: MsgBox err.Description, , "Error in Sub clsTemplate.Class_Initialize" Resume Exit_Class_Initialize Resume 0 '.FOR TROUBLESHOOTING End Sub Init() is the first class method usually called, and here we pass in variables to the class that we need in order to get the ball rolling. 'INITIALIZE THE CLASS Public Sub Init(ByRef robjParent As Object) Set mobjParent = robjParent 'IF THE PARENT OBJECT HAS A CHILDREN COLLECTION, PUT MYSELF IN IT assDebugPrint "init " & mstrInstanceName, DebugPrint End Sub The class Terminate event fires when the last pointer to the class is set to nothing. Private Sub Class_Terminate() On Error Resume Next assDebugPrint "Terminate " & mcstrModuleName, DebugPrint Term End Sub Term() is a class method and it is normally called by the cleanup code of the object that created this class instance in the first place. For example, dclsFrm creates a class instance for each control and places a pointer to that class in its Children collection. dclsFrm will then iterate this collection, calling the term method of all the child objects in the children collection when the form is closing, before removing the pointers to the objects from the collection. I also call term from the class' Terminate event. In all cases a class will close automatically when the last pointer to the class is set to nothing. Thus in theory just setting the pointer to the class to nothing should cause terminate to fire, which calls term. This seems like "double work" and in fact it is, however I do so because it is quite possible to set a reference to self for instance, where this class needs to hold itself open regardless of anything else. If I have a pointer to the class in some other class, and I just set that pointer to nothing, then the class still remains open since the last pointer to it still exists, in its own header. However if I call the terminate method, I clean up all pointers including pointer to self, then when I set my external pointer to this class instance to nothing, the class will close properly. This is not a scenario that is used often, but it is used and I just like to play it safe by always calling the term() of a class instance, then set the pointer to the class to nothing, which fires the terminate event, which does call term again. We can do something like setting a static variable in term to tell us that the term() method already ran and not to run it again the second time. 'CLEAN UP ALL OF THE CLASS POINTERS Public Sub Term() On Error Resume Next Static blnRan As Boolean 'The term may run more than once so If blnRan Then Exit Sub 'just exit if it already ran blnRan = True assDebugPrint "Term() " & mcstrModuleName, DebugPrint Set mobjParent = Nothing Set mcolChildren = Nothing End Sub '*- Public Init/Terminate interface Standard Properties and Methods We have discussed the header and the init / term interface. Next we need to discuss standard properties and methods. Obviously we need a way for other classes (or the developer) to get at the data in the header. The ModuleName string, InstanceName, and Name are all properties that just read the constants or variables holding these data and return them as strings. In order to group them in Intellisense I use Name as the first part of the property. 'get the name of this class / module Property Get NameModule() As String NameModule = mcstrModuleName End Property Public Property Get Name() As String Name = mstrName End Property Public Property Get NameInstance() As String NameInstance = mstrInstanceName End Property Public Property Let NameInstance(strName As String) mstrInstanceName = strName End Property And finally we have properties that get the parent object and the children collection. '*+ Parent/Child links interface 'get the pointer to this object's parent Public Property Get Parent() As Object Set Parent = mobjParent End Property 'get the pointer to this object's children Public Property Get Children() As Collection Set Children = mcolChildren End Property '*- Parent/Child links interface The above is all of the standard class interface. It is important to understand that all of the above is in every class, which gives us a very standardized interface to what I will call the framework class interface. These things have very little to do with the functionality of the class, what the class actually does in the framework. All it does is let us set up and tear down the classes in a standard way. That may be the most critical piece however since if a class doesn't terminate it can under certain circumstances hang Access, which can unfortunately even hang the lesser Windows versions such as Windows 98. The three finger salute is not something I want my app forcing on the user! Organizing Class functionality Finally, the sections below are just more organizational stuff. I like to group all like things together. Again this is your call as to whether you want to do this kind of organization. '.------------------------------------------------------------------------- 'THESE FUNCTIONS SINK EVENTS DECLARED WITHEVENTS IN THIS CLASS '*+ Form WithEvent interface '*- Form WithEvent interface 'THESE FUNCTIONS / SUBS ARE USED TO IMPLEMENT CLASS FUNCTIONALITY '*+PRIVATE Class function / sub declaration '*-PRIVATE Class function / sub declaration '*+PUBLIC Class function / sub declaration '*-PUBLIC Class function / sub declaration Summary A framework is going to get complex, with many classes, classes instantiating other classes, setting up child object chains as they initialize and tearing down their child object chains as they terminate. It is critical that we have a system in place to assist us in getting this piece right or we will end up with chaos and applications that don't cleanup correctly. All of the stuff that I have shown above is an attempt to standardize the setup and teardown so that we can always count on doing things the same way, regardless of what class we are instantiating. Consistency goes a long way towards helping us learn this stuff quickly, and getting all the pieces to play together peacefully. John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com Thu Mar 11 22:46:21 2004 From: jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com (John W. Colby) Date: Thu, 11 Mar 2004 23:46:21 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Framework Discussion - Class Interface In-Reply-To: Message-ID: LOL. You pick THIS email to call fascinating? That is fascinating! John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Jim Lawrence (AccessD) Sent: Thursday, March 11, 2004 11:14 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] Framework Discussion - Class Interface Fascinating :-) Jim -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of John W. Colby Sent: Thursday, March 11, 2004 6:52 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: [AccessD] Framework Discussion - Class Interface Unfortunately it has come to the point in our discussion where we have to add a little common interface to all of our classes in order to provide us with troubleshooting tools and debugging help. If you remember from Collections, classes and Garbage Collection I discussed some of the issues with classes, particularly those classes which reference forms and controls. Unless we are careful we can create problems unloading the classes, which can cause memory leaks and even cause Access to fail to close. Well its time to address those issues. Please bear with me here, I really don't want to lose anyone over these issues and the required code, but I know it can take a little while to get used to this stuff being in the class headers "clouding the issue". I am going to discuss a Template class which can then be cut and copied to start a new class. All of the necessary interface structures are there; we just add our own class specific stuff to flesh out our new class. You can see all of this code in one place in clsTemplate in the example code database. The Comment Block The first thing we need to do is add a standard header to our classes. I use a section for the typical author, date, copyright etc. This area is used to extensively document this class, with behaviors explained, why we have them, as much documentation as you can put in here so that when you come back next week you can figure out what you were doing. '.============================================================= '.Copyright 2004 Colby Consulting. All rights reserved. '.Phone : '.E-mail : jcolby at colbyconsulting.com '.============================================================= ' DO NOT DELETE THE COMMENTS ABOVE. All other comments in this module ' may be deleted from production code, but lines above must remain. '-------------------------------------------------------------- '.Description : '. '.Written By : John W. Colby '.Date Created : 02/26/2004 ' Rev. History : ' ' Comments : '.------------------------------------------------------------- '. ' ADDITIONAL NOTES: ' '-------------------------------------------------------------- ' ' INSTRUCTIONS: '.------------------------------------------------------------- '. Below that I add standard sections for constants and variables, with some of these already defined. 'THESE CONSTANTS AND VARIABLES ARE USED INTERNALLY TO THE CLASS '*+ Class constant declaration Private Const DebugPrint As Boolean = False Private Const mcstrModuleName As String = "clsFW" '*- Class constants declaration DebugPrint will ultimately allow us to turn on/off printing of debug statements in this specific module. We do this by calling a debugprint function instead of just putting debug.print statements directly in code. We pass in the constant above and the statement prints or doesn't based on the value of the constant passed in. Set it true and all debug statements in the module will print, set it false, they don't print. We have a constant mcstrModuleName that holds a string that is literally the class' module name as seen in the database window, modules tab. Private Const mcstrModuleName As String = "clsFW" Next come class variables: '*+ Class variables declarations 'POINTER TO THE OBJECT THAT CREATED THIS CLASS INSTANCE (THE PARENT OF THE CLASS) Private mobjParent As Object 'THE CHILDREN COLLECTION IS USED TO STORE REFERENCES TO ALL CHILD OBJECTS (CLASSES) THAT NEED TO BE INITIALIZED AND DESTROYED. USUALLY THESE WILL BE FOR CONTROLS SUCH AS THE TAB CONTROL OR THE RECORD SELECTOR, BUT THEY MAY ALSO BE FOR BUSINESS RULES CLASSES, etc. Private mobjChildren As Collection 'THE STRING INSTANCE NAME IS BUILT UP FROM THE MODULE NAME AND A RANDOM INT Public mstrInstanceName As String Public mstrName As String '*- Class variables declarations At this point we also need to discuss some of the process that we use for "automating" the setup and teardown of classes because the entire standard header is used for this purpose. You will add your own variables in here but the stuff you see so far is all framework interface. Classes rarely "standalone" in the framework. There are often classes that use child classes, which may themselves use child classes. A good example is the dclsFrm (the form class) uses dclsCbo (the combo class) which will use dclsDepObj (the dependent object class). Obviously the form class may have dozens of control classes found and instantiated by the control scanner function, with pointers to these control classes stored in a collection. A combo may have one or several objects which "depend on it" to filter its data, thus the combo class has a clsDepObj which stores pointers to classes for the controls that depend on the combo. All of this class using class using class begs for a common interface that is just always there in every class. Thus each class is passed a pointer to its parent object which is then stored in mobjParent. '*+ Class variables declarations 'POINTER TO THE OBJECT THAT CREATED THIS CLASS INSTANCE (THE PARENT OF THE CLASS) Private mobjParent As Object The parent object is the class that instantiated this class. dclsFrm is the parent object to dclsCbo. dclsCbo is the parent object to clsDepObj and so forth. A form passes "Me" to dclsFrm, dclsFrm passes "Me" to dclsCbo, dclsCbo passes "Me" to clsDepObj etc. Me in all three cases means the pointer to the current class. Me in the form means the form's built-in class, me in dclsFrm means a pointer to that dclsFrm instance. By passing a pointer to the parent, any child class can get at any of the parent's properties and methods that it may need. In fact the parent object may have properties and methods added just for the express use of specific child classes that it knows it must deal with. Additionally, each class has a children collection which we name mcolChildren. mcolChildren holds pointers to child objects (classes). 'THE CHILDREN COLLECTION IS USED TO STORE REFERENCES TO ALL CHILD OBJECTS (CLASSES) THAT NEED TO BE INITIALIZED AND DESTROYED. USUALLY THESE WILL BE FOR CONTROLS SUCH AS THE TAB CONTROL OR THE RECORD SELECTOR, BUT THEY MAY ALSO BE FOR BUSINESS RULES CLASSES, etc. Private mobjChildren As Collection The string instance name is built from mcstrModuleName and other info. I am moving to a "lineage name" meaning each class uses it's parent's name plus it's class name. That makes it very easy to tell how any given class "came to be". 'THE STRING INSTANCE NAME IS BUILT UP FROM THE MODULE NAME AND A RANDOM INT Public mstrInstanceName As String And finally a simple name variable Public mstrName As String This variable will usually be the simple name used as the key when the class is saved in its parent's children class. In other words, a class is always saved in its parent's children collection so that the parent can clean up all of its children when the parent class terminates. The name used as the key into this collection is often something simple like a control name. We do this so that we can just index into the class using a readily available piece of information (the control's name) to get the class associated with that object. Functional Constants and Variables I like to organize the header with all the constants grouped together, the variables, then any custom events declared that this class may raise. If a class gets very complicated it may be convenient to group functional pieces together. Bottom line, this is about organization and as long as you make an effort to routinely follow organizational guidelines you will be better off than if you just let madness reign. '.------------------------------------------------------------- 'THESE CONSTANTS AND VARIABLES ARE USED BY THE CLASS TO IMPLEMENT CLASS FUNCTIONALITY '*+ custom constants declaration ' '*- Custom constants declaration '*+ custom variables declarations ' Private WithEvents mfrm As Form 'A form reference passed in '*- custom variables declarations ' 'Define any events this class will raise here '*+ custom events Declarations 'Public Event MyEvent(Status As Integer) '*- custom events declarations Class Init/Term Next I place the class' Initialize sub with all Set statements instantiating any objects that the class dimensions in its header. Initialize is an Event handler, i.e. the class fires this event when the SET statement instantiates the class and the class starts to load. '.------------------------------------------------------------- 'THESE FUNCTIONS / SUBS ARE USED INTERNALLY TO THE CLASS '*+ Private Init/Terminate Interface Private Sub Class_Initialize() On Error GoTo Err_Class_Initialize assDebugPrint "initialize " & mcstrModuleName, DebugPrint Set mcolChildren = New Collection Exit_Class_Initialize: Exit Sub Err_Class_Initialize: MsgBox err.Description, , "Error in Sub clsTemplate.Class_Initialize" Resume Exit_Class_Initialize Resume 0 '.FOR TROUBLESHOOTING End Sub Init() is the first class method usually called, and here we pass in variables to the class that we need in order to get the ball rolling. 'INITIALIZE THE CLASS Public Sub Init(ByRef robjParent As Object) Set mobjParent = robjParent 'IF THE PARENT OBJECT HAS A CHILDREN COLLECTION, PUT MYSELF IN IT assDebugPrint "init " & mstrInstanceName, DebugPrint End Sub The class Terminate event fires when the last pointer to the class is set to nothing. Private Sub Class_Terminate() On Error Resume Next assDebugPrint "Terminate " & mcstrModuleName, DebugPrint Term End Sub Term() is a class method and it is normally called by the cleanup code of the object that created this class instance in the first place. For example, dclsFrm creates a class instance for each control and places a pointer to that class in its Children collection. dclsFrm will then iterate this collection, calling the term method of all the child objects in the children collection when the form is closing, before removing the pointers to the objects from the collection. I also call term from the class' Terminate event. In all cases a class will close automatically when the last pointer to the class is set to nothing. Thus in theory just setting the pointer to the class to nothing should cause terminate to fire, which calls term. This seems like "double work" and in fact it is, however I do so because it is quite possible to set a reference to self for instance, where this class needs to hold itself open regardless of anything else. If I have a pointer to the class in some other class, and I just set that pointer to nothing, then the class still remains open since the last pointer to it still exists, in its own header. However if I call the terminate method, I clean up all pointers including pointer to self, then when I set my external pointer to this class instance to nothing, the class will close properly. This is not a scenario that is used often, but it is used and I just like to play it safe by always calling the term() of a class instance, then set the pointer to the class to nothing, which fires the terminate event, which does call term again. We can do something like setting a static variable in term to tell us that the term() method already ran and not to run it again the second time. 'CLEAN UP ALL OF THE CLASS POINTERS Public Sub Term() On Error Resume Next Static blnRan As Boolean 'The term may run more than once so If blnRan Then Exit Sub 'just exit if it already ran blnRan = True assDebugPrint "Term() " & mcstrModuleName, DebugPrint Set mobjParent = Nothing Set mcolChildren = Nothing End Sub '*- Public Init/Terminate interface Standard Properties and Methods We have discussed the header and the init / term interface. Next we need to discuss standard properties and methods. Obviously we need a way for other classes (or the developer) to get at the data in the header. The ModuleName string, InstanceName, and Name are all properties that just read the constants or variables holding these data and return them as strings. In order to group them in Intellisense I use Name as the first part of the property. 'get the name of this class / module Property Get NameModule() As String NameModule = mcstrModuleName End Property Public Property Get Name() As String Name = mstrName End Property Public Property Get NameInstance() As String NameInstance = mstrInstanceName End Property Public Property Let NameInstance(strName As String) mstrInstanceName = strName End Property And finally we have properties that get the parent object and the children collection. '*+ Parent/Child links interface 'get the pointer to this object's parent Public Property Get Parent() As Object Set Parent = mobjParent End Property 'get the pointer to this object's children Public Property Get Children() As Collection Set Children = mcolChildren End Property '*- Parent/Child links interface The above is all of the standard class interface. It is important to understand that all of the above is in every class, which gives us a very standardized interface to what I will call the framework class interface. These things have very little to do with the functionality of the class, what the class actually does in the framework. All it does is let us set up and tear down the classes in a standard way. That may be the most critical piece however since if a class doesn't terminate it can under certain circumstances hang Access, which can unfortunately even hang the lesser Windows versions such as Windows 98. The three finger salute is not something I want my app forcing on the user! Organizing Class functionality Finally, the sections below are just more organizational stuff. I like to group all like things together. Again this is your call as to whether you want to do this kind of organization. '.------------------------------------------------------------------------- 'THESE FUNCTIONS SINK EVENTS DECLARED WITHEVENTS IN THIS CLASS '*+ Form WithEvent interface '*- Form WithEvent interface 'THESE FUNCTIONS / SUBS ARE USED TO IMPLEMENT CLASS FUNCTIONALITY '*+PRIVATE Class function / sub declaration '*-PRIVATE Class function / sub declaration '*+PUBLIC Class function / sub declaration '*-PUBLIC Class function / sub declaration Summary A framework is going to get complex, with many classes, classes instantiating other classes, setting up child object chains as they initialize and tearing down their child object chains as they terminate. It is critical that we have a system in place to assist us in getting this piece right or we will end up with chaos and applications that don't cleanup correctly. All of the stuff that I have shown above is an attempt to standardize the setup and teardown so that we can always count on doing things the same way, regardless of what class we are instantiating. Consistency goes a long way towards helping us learn this stuff quickly, and getting all the pieces to play together peacefully. John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From deanellis at iprimus.com.au Fri Mar 12 01:40:58 2004 From: deanellis at iprimus.com.au (Dean Ellis) Date: Fri, 12 Mar 2004 18:10:58 +1030 (Cen. Australia Daylight Time) Subject: [AccessD] BEU Update. Will you allow others to have a go? Message-ID: <4051698A.000003.37535@jedel> Hi All, I have just recently installed the BEU modules into my database with a great deal of success. Well done Reuben, Andy, Lembit and Bryan. I did mention that there was a Data Type missing from the dropdown list in the Add Field selection subform. If it's ok with the creators of the BEU modules (And only if it ok) I'd like to open it up to the floor to see if anyone has the time to add this datatype into the code. If I have stepped over the line here, I apologise. I just figured that the four guys that created this are obviously very busy people and there may be some one else out there that could help? Cheers Dean Ellis From accessd at shaw.ca Fri Mar 12 01:43:01 2004 From: accessd at shaw.ca (Jim Lawrence (AccessD)) Date: Thu, 11 Mar 2004 23:43:01 -0800 Subject: [AccessD] Framework Discussion - Class Interface In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Hi John: I was describing the series...so far. Jim -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of John W. Colby Sent: Thursday, March 11, 2004 8:46 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] Framework Discussion - Class Interface LOL. You pick THIS email to call fascinating? That is fascinating! John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Jim Lawrence (AccessD) Sent: Thursday, March 11, 2004 11:14 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] Framework Discussion - Class Interface Fascinating :-) Jim -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of John W. Colby Sent: Thursday, March 11, 2004 6:52 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: [AccessD] Framework Discussion - Class Interface Unfortunately it has come to the point in our discussion where we have to add a little common interface to all of our classes in order to provide us with troubleshooting tools and debugging help. If you remember from Collections, classes and Garbage Collection I discussed some of the issues with classes, particularly those classes which reference forms and controls. Unless we are careful we can create problems unloading the classes, which can cause memory leaks and even cause Access to fail to close. Well its time to address those issues. Please bear with me here, I really don't want to lose anyone over these issues and the required code, but I know it can take a little while to get used to this stuff being in the class headers "clouding the issue". I am going to discuss a Template class which can then be cut and copied to start a new class. All of the necessary interface structures are there; we just add our own class specific stuff to flesh out our new class. You can see all of this code in one place in clsTemplate in the example code database. The Comment Block The first thing we need to do is add a standard header to our classes. I use a section for the typical author, date, copyright etc. This area is used to extensively document this class, with behaviors explained, why we have them, as much documentation as you can put in here so that when you come back next week you can figure out what you were doing. '.============================================================= '.Copyright 2004 Colby Consulting. All rights reserved. '.Phone : '.E-mail : jcolby at colbyconsulting.com '.============================================================= ' DO NOT DELETE THE COMMENTS ABOVE. All other comments in this module ' may be deleted from production code, but lines above must remain. '-------------------------------------------------------------- '.Description : '. '.Written By : John W. Colby '.Date Created : 02/26/2004 ' Rev. History : ' ' Comments : '.------------------------------------------------------------- '. ' ADDITIONAL NOTES: ' '-------------------------------------------------------------- ' ' INSTRUCTIONS: '.------------------------------------------------------------- '. Below that I add standard sections for constants and variables, with some of these already defined. 'THESE CONSTANTS AND VARIABLES ARE USED INTERNALLY TO THE CLASS '*+ Class constant declaration Private Const DebugPrint As Boolean = False Private Const mcstrModuleName As String = "clsFW" '*- Class constants declaration DebugPrint will ultimately allow us to turn on/off printing of debug statements in this specific module. We do this by calling a debugprint function instead of just putting debug.print statements directly in code. We pass in the constant above and the statement prints or doesn't based on the value of the constant passed in. Set it true and all debug statements in the module will print, set it false, they don't print. We have a constant mcstrModuleName that holds a string that is literally the class' module name as seen in the database window, modules tab. Private Const mcstrModuleName As String = "clsFW" Next come class variables: '*+ Class variables declarations 'POINTER TO THE OBJECT THAT CREATED THIS CLASS INSTANCE (THE PARENT OF THE CLASS) Private mobjParent As Object 'THE CHILDREN COLLECTION IS USED TO STORE REFERENCES TO ALL CHILD OBJECTS (CLASSES) THAT NEED TO BE INITIALIZED AND DESTROYED. USUALLY THESE WILL BE FOR CONTROLS SUCH AS THE TAB CONTROL OR THE RECORD SELECTOR, BUT THEY MAY ALSO BE FOR BUSINESS RULES CLASSES, etc. Private mobjChildren As Collection 'THE STRING INSTANCE NAME IS BUILT UP FROM THE MODULE NAME AND A RANDOM INT Public mstrInstanceName As String Public mstrName As String '*- Class variables declarations At this point we also need to discuss some of the process that we use for "automating" the setup and teardown of classes because the entire standard header is used for this purpose. You will add your own variables in here but the stuff you see so far is all framework interface. Classes rarely "standalone" in the framework. There are often classes that use child classes, which may themselves use child classes. A good example is the dclsFrm (the form class) uses dclsCbo (the combo class) which will use dclsDepObj (the dependent object class). Obviously the form class may have dozens of control classes found and instantiated by the control scanner function, with pointers to these control classes stored in a collection. A combo may have one or several objects which "depend on it" to filter its data, thus the combo class has a clsDepObj which stores pointers to classes for the controls that depend on the combo. All of this class using class using class begs for a common interface that is just always there in every class. Thus each class is passed a pointer to its parent object which is then stored in mobjParent. '*+ Class variables declarations 'POINTER TO THE OBJECT THAT CREATED THIS CLASS INSTANCE (THE PARENT OF THE CLASS) Private mobjParent As Object The parent object is the class that instantiated this class. dclsFrm is the parent object to dclsCbo. dclsCbo is the parent object to clsDepObj and so forth. A form passes "Me" to dclsFrm, dclsFrm passes "Me" to dclsCbo, dclsCbo passes "Me" to clsDepObj etc. Me in all three cases means the pointer to the current class. Me in the form means the form's built-in class, me in dclsFrm means a pointer to that dclsFrm instance. By passing a pointer to the parent, any child class can get at any of the parent's properties and methods that it may need. In fact the parent object may have properties and methods added just for the express use of specific child classes that it knows it must deal with. Additionally, each class has a children collection which we name mcolChildren. mcolChildren holds pointers to child objects (classes). 'THE CHILDREN COLLECTION IS USED TO STORE REFERENCES TO ALL CHILD OBJECTS (CLASSES) THAT NEED TO BE INITIALIZED AND DESTROYED. USUALLY THESE WILL BE FOR CONTROLS SUCH AS THE TAB CONTROL OR THE RECORD SELECTOR, BUT THEY MAY ALSO BE FOR BUSINESS RULES CLASSES, etc. Private mobjChildren As Collection The string instance name is built from mcstrModuleName and other info. I am moving to a "lineage name" meaning each class uses it's parent's name plus it's class name. That makes it very easy to tell how any given class "came to be". 'THE STRING INSTANCE NAME IS BUILT UP FROM THE MODULE NAME AND A RANDOM INT Public mstrInstanceName As String And finally a simple name variable Public mstrName As String This variable will usually be the simple name used as the key when the class is saved in its parent's children class. In other words, a class is always saved in its parent's children collection so that the parent can clean up all of its children when the parent class terminates. The name used as the key into this collection is often something simple like a control name. We do this so that we can just index into the class using a readily available piece of information (the control's name) to get the class associated with that object. Functional Constants and Variables I like to organize the header with all the constants grouped together, the variables, then any custom events declared that this class may raise. If a class gets very complicated it may be convenient to group functional pieces together. Bottom line, this is about organization and as long as you make an effort to routinely follow organizational guidelines you will be better off than if you just let madness reign. '.------------------------------------------------------------- 'THESE CONSTANTS AND VARIABLES ARE USED BY THE CLASS TO IMPLEMENT CLASS FUNCTIONALITY '*+ custom constants declaration ' '*- Custom constants declaration '*+ custom variables declarations ' Private WithEvents mfrm As Form 'A form reference passed in '*- custom variables declarations ' 'Define any events this class will raise here '*+ custom events Declarations 'Public Event MyEvent(Status As Integer) '*- custom events declarations Class Init/Term Next I place the class' Initialize sub with all Set statements instantiating any objects that the class dimensions in its header. Initialize is an Event handler, i.e. the class fires this event when the SET statement instantiates the class and the class starts to load. '.------------------------------------------------------------- 'THESE FUNCTIONS / SUBS ARE USED INTERNALLY TO THE CLASS '*+ Private Init/Terminate Interface Private Sub Class_Initialize() On Error GoTo Err_Class_Initialize assDebugPrint "initialize " & mcstrModuleName, DebugPrint Set mcolChildren = New Collection Exit_Class_Initialize: Exit Sub Err_Class_Initialize: MsgBox err.Description, , "Error in Sub clsTemplate.Class_Initialize" Resume Exit_Class_Initialize Resume 0 '.FOR TROUBLESHOOTING End Sub Init() is the first class method usually called, and here we pass in variables to the class that we need in order to get the ball rolling. 'INITIALIZE THE CLASS Public Sub Init(ByRef robjParent As Object) Set mobjParent = robjParent 'IF THE PARENT OBJECT HAS A CHILDREN COLLECTION, PUT MYSELF IN IT assDebugPrint "init " & mstrInstanceName, DebugPrint End Sub The class Terminate event fires when the last pointer to the class is set to nothing. Private Sub Class_Terminate() On Error Resume Next assDebugPrint "Terminate " & mcstrModuleName, DebugPrint Term End Sub Term() is a class method and it is normally called by the cleanup code of the object that created this class instance in the first place. For example, dclsFrm creates a class instance for each control and places a pointer to that class in its Children collection. dclsFrm will then iterate this collection, calling the term method of all the child objects in the children collection when the form is closing, before removing the pointers to the objects from the collection. I also call term from the class' Terminate event. In all cases a class will close automatically when the last pointer to the class is set to nothing. Thus in theory just setting the pointer to the class to nothing should cause terminate to fire, which calls term. This seems like "double work" and in fact it is, however I do so because it is quite possible to set a reference to self for instance, where this class needs to hold itself open regardless of anything else. If I have a pointer to the class in some other class, and I just set that pointer to nothing, then the class still remains open since the last pointer to it still exists, in its own header. However if I call the terminate method, I clean up all pointers including pointer to self, then when I set my external pointer to this class instance to nothing, the class will close properly. This is not a scenario that is used often, but it is used and I just like to play it safe by always calling the term() of a class instance, then set the pointer to the class to nothing, which fires the terminate event, which does call term again. We can do something like setting a static variable in term to tell us that the term() method already ran and not to run it again the second time. 'CLEAN UP ALL OF THE CLASS POINTERS Public Sub Term() On Error Resume Next Static blnRan As Boolean 'The term may run more than once so If blnRan Then Exit Sub 'just exit if it already ran blnRan = True assDebugPrint "Term() " & mcstrModuleName, DebugPrint Set mobjParent = Nothing Set mcolChildren = Nothing End Sub '*- Public Init/Terminate interface Standard Properties and Methods We have discussed the header and the init / term interface. Next we need to discuss standard properties and methods. Obviously we need a way for other classes (or the developer) to get at the data in the header. The ModuleName string, InstanceName, and Name are all properties that just read the constants or variables holding these data and return them as strings. In order to group them in Intellisense I use Name as the first part of the property. 'get the name of this class / module Property Get NameModule() As String NameModule = mcstrModuleName End Property Public Property Get Name() As String Name = mstrName End Property Public Property Get NameInstance() As String NameInstance = mstrInstanceName End Property Public Property Let NameInstance(strName As String) mstrInstanceName = strName End Property And finally we have properties that get the parent object and the children collection. '*+ Parent/Child links interface 'get the pointer to this object's parent Public Property Get Parent() As Object Set Parent = mobjParent End Property 'get the pointer to this object's children Public Property Get Children() As Collection Set Children = mcolChildren End Property '*- Parent/Child links interface The above is all of the standard class interface. It is important to understand that all of the above is in every class, which gives us a very standardized interface to what I will call the framework class interface. These things have very little to do with the functionality of the class, what the class actually does in the framework. All it does is let us set up and tear down the classes in a standard way. That may be the most critical piece however since if a class doesn't terminate it can under certain circumstances hang Access, which can unfortunately even hang the lesser Windows versions such as Windows 98. The three finger salute is not something I want my app forcing on the user! Organizing Class functionality Finally, the sections below are just more organizational stuff. I like to group all like things together. Again this is your call as to whether you want to do this kind of organization. '.------------------------------------------------------------------------- 'THESE FUNCTIONS SINK EVENTS DECLARED WITHEVENTS IN THIS CLASS '*+ Form WithEvent interface '*- Form WithEvent interface 'THESE FUNCTIONS / SUBS ARE USED TO IMPLEMENT CLASS FUNCTIONALITY '*+PRIVATE Class function / sub declaration '*-PRIVATE Class function / sub declaration '*+PUBLIC Class function / sub declaration '*-PUBLIC Class function / sub declaration Summary A framework is going to get complex, with many classes, classes instantiating other classes, setting up child object chains as they initialize and tearing down their child object chains as they terminate. It is critical that we have a system in place to assist us in getting this piece right or we will end up with chaos and applications that don't cleanup correctly. All of the stuff that I have shown above is an attempt to standardize the setup and teardown so that we can always count on doing things the same way, regardless of what class we are instantiating. Consistency goes a long way towards helping us learn this stuff quickly, and getting all the pieces to play together peacefully. John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From rsmethurst at UK.EY.COM Fri Mar 12 03:37:01 2004 From: rsmethurst at UK.EY.COM (rsmethurst at UK.EY.COM) Date: Fri, 12 Mar 2004 09:37:01 +0000 Subject: [AccessD] Re: Printing forms Message-ID: Robert, Thanks for the reply. I'm aware of what forms and reports are used for. However, in this instance I need to print a screen-dump of a form. - I'll elaborate on the scenario. On these forms (and there are many of them - mostly inherited from a previous version of this app) there are graphs, combo boxes, datasheets and drill down sub forms, allowing the user to make multiple (and usually quite detailed) selections on the data. Once those selections are made the users (as per the spec and the previous app versions) would like to print a view of the actual form (i.e their selections and however that has affected the data/graphs etc) - something which by and large works fine except for the items I listed below. (The unbound combo's/radio's etc.) The database (by design - out my hands) contains no reports - only these screen prints. An obviouse work around is to put labels on the offending controls (populate them with the required data) and make them visible only when printing, but this seems crude if it would work....in fact it does - previous versions of this app have shown that. I would just like to know if there is a quicker way to do this. Printing bound controls is fine (in fact even unbound controls with a default value set) - from what I can see, it is the unbound ones without defaults that are problematic. Even if the users/project sponsors were open to reports in this instance (which they are not) I just haven't got the time to go and develop the number of reports that would duplicate what is on these numerous forms (some of which are extremely complex) at this stage of the project. So, in summary, what I am hoping for, is info about the the most feasible way to achieve this, given the time constraints I have mentioned above. (It might be the labels...but I live in hope for a more simple/timely solution) Ryan "Robert L. Stewart" Sent by: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com 11/03/2004 18:15 Please respond to Access Developers discussion and problem solving To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com cc: Subject: [AccessD] Re: Printing forms Ryan, That is because you print reports and not forms. Forms are for data entry. Reports are for printing. Robert At 11:46 AM 3/11/2004 -0600, you wrote: >Date: Thu, 11 Mar 2004 17:42:38 +0000 >From: rsmethurst at UK.EY.COM >Subject: [AccessD] Printing forms >To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > >Message-ID: > >Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" > >Hi All, > >I am having a problem printing forms - specifically it is with combo boxes >and radio buttons (usually within frames) which do not print with the >correct option filled. > >i.e two radio buttons and both will print blank, even though the first one >is selected. >and a combo box with have a selected value, but will not display this >value when the form prints. > >The controls are all set to display for both print and screen, and the >controls are unbound. > >TIA > >Ryan -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com This e-mail and any attachment are confidential and contain proprietary information, some or all of which may be legally privileged. 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A list of members? names is available for inspection at 1 More London Place, London, SE1 2AF, the firm?s principal place of business and its registered office. From adtp at touchtelindia.net Fri Mar 12 05:45:47 2004 From: adtp at touchtelindia.net (A.D.Tejpal) Date: Fri, 12 Mar 2004 17:15:47 +0530 Subject: [AccessD] active design view in mde References: Message-ID: <002101c40827$cdd1ec10$fb1e65cb@winxp> John, Could you kindly give more details as to why you need to do it. There may be a work-around if a temporary form would do. Regards, A.D.Tejpal -------------- ----- Original Message ----- From: Robert Gracie To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Sent: Friday, March 12, 2004 06:11 Subject: RE: [AccessD] active design view in mde If I understand your question,...No you can't. Robert Gracie www.servicexp.com -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of John Eget Sent: Thursday, March 11, 2004 6:18 PM To: AccessD at databaseadvisors.com Subject: [AccessD] active design view in mde Is there anyway to active design view in an application that had been compiled in an mde format? Thanks John From jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com Fri Mar 12 06:19:54 2004 From: jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com (John W. Colby) Date: Fri, 12 Mar 2004 07:19:54 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Framework Discussion - Class Interface In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Oh, thanks! Stay tuned, we are really still just laying the foundation. John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Jim Lawrence (AccessD) Sent: Friday, March 12, 2004 2:43 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] Framework Discussion - Class Interface Hi John: I was describing the series...so far. Jim -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of John W. Colby Sent: Thursday, March 11, 2004 8:46 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] Framework Discussion - Class Interface LOL. You pick THIS email to call fascinating? That is fascinating! John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Jim Lawrence (AccessD) Sent: Thursday, March 11, 2004 11:14 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] Framework Discussion - Class Interface Fascinating :-) Jim -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of John W. Colby Sent: Thursday, March 11, 2004 6:52 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: [AccessD] Framework Discussion - Class Interface Unfortunately it has come to the point in our discussion where we have to add a little common interface to all of our classes in order to provide us with troubleshooting tools and debugging help. If you remember from Collections, classes and Garbage Collection I discussed some of the issues with classes, particularly those classes which reference forms and controls. Unless we are careful we can create problems unloading the classes, which can cause memory leaks and even cause Access to fail to close. Well its time to address those issues. Please bear with me here, I really don't want to lose anyone over these issues and the required code, but I know it can take a little while to get used to this stuff being in the class headers "clouding the issue". I am going to discuss a Template class which can then be cut and copied to start a new class. All of the necessary interface structures are there; we just add our own class specific stuff to flesh out our new class. You can see all of this code in one place in clsTemplate in the example code database. The Comment Block The first thing we need to do is add a standard header to our classes. I use a section for the typical author, date, copyright etc. This area is used to extensively document this class, with behaviors explained, why we have them, as much documentation as you can put in here so that when you come back next week you can figure out what you were doing. '.============================================================= '.Copyright 2004 Colby Consulting. All rights reserved. '.Phone : '.E-mail : jcolby at colbyconsulting.com '.============================================================= ' DO NOT DELETE THE COMMENTS ABOVE. All other comments in this module ' may be deleted from production code, but lines above must remain. '-------------------------------------------------------------- '.Description : '. '.Written By : John W. Colby '.Date Created : 02/26/2004 ' Rev. History : ' ' Comments : '.------------------------------------------------------------- '. ' ADDITIONAL NOTES: ' '-------------------------------------------------------------- ' ' INSTRUCTIONS: '.------------------------------------------------------------- '. Below that I add standard sections for constants and variables, with some of these already defined. 'THESE CONSTANTS AND VARIABLES ARE USED INTERNALLY TO THE CLASS '*+ Class constant declaration Private Const DebugPrint As Boolean = False Private Const mcstrModuleName As String = "clsFW" '*- Class constants declaration DebugPrint will ultimately allow us to turn on/off printing of debug statements in this specific module. We do this by calling a debugprint function instead of just putting debug.print statements directly in code. We pass in the constant above and the statement prints or doesn't based on the value of the constant passed in. Set it true and all debug statements in the module will print, set it false, they don't print. We have a constant mcstrModuleName that holds a string that is literally the class' module name as seen in the database window, modules tab. Private Const mcstrModuleName As String = "clsFW" Next come class variables: '*+ Class variables declarations 'POINTER TO THE OBJECT THAT CREATED THIS CLASS INSTANCE (THE PARENT OF THE CLASS) Private mobjParent As Object 'THE CHILDREN COLLECTION IS USED TO STORE REFERENCES TO ALL CHILD OBJECTS (CLASSES) THAT NEED TO BE INITIALIZED AND DESTROYED. USUALLY THESE WILL BE FOR CONTROLS SUCH AS THE TAB CONTROL OR THE RECORD SELECTOR, BUT THEY MAY ALSO BE FOR BUSINESS RULES CLASSES, etc. Private mobjChildren As Collection 'THE STRING INSTANCE NAME IS BUILT UP FROM THE MODULE NAME AND A RANDOM INT Public mstrInstanceName As String Public mstrName As String '*- Class variables declarations At this point we also need to discuss some of the process that we use for "automating" the setup and teardown of classes because the entire standard header is used for this purpose. You will add your own variables in here but the stuff you see so far is all framework interface. Classes rarely "standalone" in the framework. There are often classes that use child classes, which may themselves use child classes. A good example is the dclsFrm (the form class) uses dclsCbo (the combo class) which will use dclsDepObj (the dependent object class). Obviously the form class may have dozens of control classes found and instantiated by the control scanner function, with pointers to these control classes stored in a collection. A combo may have one or several objects which "depend on it" to filter its data, thus the combo class has a clsDepObj which stores pointers to classes for the controls that depend on the combo. All of this class using class using class begs for a common interface that is just always there in every class. Thus each class is passed a pointer to its parent object which is then stored in mobjParent. '*+ Class variables declarations 'POINTER TO THE OBJECT THAT CREATED THIS CLASS INSTANCE (THE PARENT OF THE CLASS) Private mobjParent As Object The parent object is the class that instantiated this class. dclsFrm is the parent object to dclsCbo. dclsCbo is the parent object to clsDepObj and so forth. A form passes "Me" to dclsFrm, dclsFrm passes "Me" to dclsCbo, dclsCbo passes "Me" to clsDepObj etc. Me in all three cases means the pointer to the current class. Me in the form means the form's built-in class, me in dclsFrm means a pointer to that dclsFrm instance. By passing a pointer to the parent, any child class can get at any of the parent's properties and methods that it may need. In fact the parent object may have properties and methods added just for the express use of specific child classes that it knows it must deal with. Additionally, each class has a children collection which we name mcolChildren. mcolChildren holds pointers to child objects (classes). 'THE CHILDREN COLLECTION IS USED TO STORE REFERENCES TO ALL CHILD OBJECTS (CLASSES) THAT NEED TO BE INITIALIZED AND DESTROYED. USUALLY THESE WILL BE FOR CONTROLS SUCH AS THE TAB CONTROL OR THE RECORD SELECTOR, BUT THEY MAY ALSO BE FOR BUSINESS RULES CLASSES, etc. Private mobjChildren As Collection The string instance name is built from mcstrModuleName and other info. I am moving to a "lineage name" meaning each class uses it's parent's name plus it's class name. That makes it very easy to tell how any given class "came to be". 'THE STRING INSTANCE NAME IS BUILT UP FROM THE MODULE NAME AND A RANDOM INT Public mstrInstanceName As String And finally a simple name variable Public mstrName As String This variable will usually be the simple name used as the key when the class is saved in its parent's children class. In other words, a class is always saved in its parent's children collection so that the parent can clean up all of its children when the parent class terminates. The name used as the key into this collection is often something simple like a control name. We do this so that we can just index into the class using a readily available piece of information (the control's name) to get the class associated with that object. Functional Constants and Variables I like to organize the header with all the constants grouped together, the variables, then any custom events declared that this class may raise. If a class gets very complicated it may be convenient to group functional pieces together. Bottom line, this is about organization and as long as you make an effort to routinely follow organizational guidelines you will be better off than if you just let madness reign. '.------------------------------------------------------------- 'THESE CONSTANTS AND VARIABLES ARE USED BY THE CLASS TO IMPLEMENT CLASS FUNCTIONALITY '*+ custom constants declaration ' '*- Custom constants declaration '*+ custom variables declarations ' Private WithEvents mfrm As Form 'A form reference passed in '*- custom variables declarations ' 'Define any events this class will raise here '*+ custom events Declarations 'Public Event MyEvent(Status As Integer) '*- custom events declarations Class Init/Term Next I place the class' Initialize sub with all Set statements instantiating any objects that the class dimensions in its header. Initialize is an Event handler, i.e. the class fires this event when the SET statement instantiates the class and the class starts to load. '.------------------------------------------------------------- 'THESE FUNCTIONS / SUBS ARE USED INTERNALLY TO THE CLASS '*+ Private Init/Terminate Interface Private Sub Class_Initialize() On Error GoTo Err_Class_Initialize assDebugPrint "initialize " & mcstrModuleName, DebugPrint Set mcolChildren = New Collection Exit_Class_Initialize: Exit Sub Err_Class_Initialize: MsgBox err.Description, , "Error in Sub clsTemplate.Class_Initialize" Resume Exit_Class_Initialize Resume 0 '.FOR TROUBLESHOOTING End Sub Init() is the first class method usually called, and here we pass in variables to the class that we need in order to get the ball rolling. 'INITIALIZE THE CLASS Public Sub Init(ByRef robjParent As Object) Set mobjParent = robjParent 'IF THE PARENT OBJECT HAS A CHILDREN COLLECTION, PUT MYSELF IN IT assDebugPrint "init " & mstrInstanceName, DebugPrint End Sub The class Terminate event fires when the last pointer to the class is set to nothing. Private Sub Class_Terminate() On Error Resume Next assDebugPrint "Terminate " & mcstrModuleName, DebugPrint Term End Sub Term() is a class method and it is normally called by the cleanup code of the object that created this class instance in the first place. For example, dclsFrm creates a class instance for each control and places a pointer to that class in its Children collection. dclsFrm will then iterate this collection, calling the term method of all the child objects in the children collection when the form is closing, before removing the pointers to the objects from the collection. I also call term from the class' Terminate event. In all cases a class will close automatically when the last pointer to the class is set to nothing. Thus in theory just setting the pointer to the class to nothing should cause terminate to fire, which calls term. This seems like "double work" and in fact it is, however I do so because it is quite possible to set a reference to self for instance, where this class needs to hold itself open regardless of anything else. If I have a pointer to the class in some other class, and I just set that pointer to nothing, then the class still remains open since the last pointer to it still exists, in its own header. However if I call the terminate method, I clean up all pointers including pointer to self, then when I set my external pointer to this class instance to nothing, the class will close properly. This is not a scenario that is used often, but it is used and I just like to play it safe by always calling the term() of a class instance, then set the pointer to the class to nothing, which fires the terminate event, which does call term again. We can do something like setting a static variable in term to tell us that the term() method already ran and not to run it again the second time. 'CLEAN UP ALL OF THE CLASS POINTERS Public Sub Term() On Error Resume Next Static blnRan As Boolean 'The term may run more than once so If blnRan Then Exit Sub 'just exit if it already ran blnRan = True assDebugPrint "Term() " & mcstrModuleName, DebugPrint Set mobjParent = Nothing Set mcolChildren = Nothing End Sub '*- Public Init/Terminate interface Standard Properties and Methods We have discussed the header and the init / term interface. Next we need to discuss standard properties and methods. Obviously we need a way for other classes (or the developer) to get at the data in the header. The ModuleName string, InstanceName, and Name are all properties that just read the constants or variables holding these data and return them as strings. In order to group them in Intellisense I use Name as the first part of the property. 'get the name of this class / module Property Get NameModule() As String NameModule = mcstrModuleName End Property Public Property Get Name() As String Name = mstrName End Property Public Property Get NameInstance() As String NameInstance = mstrInstanceName End Property Public Property Let NameInstance(strName As String) mstrInstanceName = strName End Property And finally we have properties that get the parent object and the children collection. '*+ Parent/Child links interface 'get the pointer to this object's parent Public Property Get Parent() As Object Set Parent = mobjParent End Property 'get the pointer to this object's children Public Property Get Children() As Collection Set Children = mcolChildren End Property '*- Parent/Child links interface The above is all of the standard class interface. It is important to understand that all of the above is in every class, which gives us a very standardized interface to what I will call the framework class interface. These things have very little to do with the functionality of the class, what the class actually does in the framework. All it does is let us set up and tear down the classes in a standard way. That may be the most critical piece however since if a class doesn't terminate it can under certain circumstances hang Access, which can unfortunately even hang the lesser Windows versions such as Windows 98. The three finger salute is not something I want my app forcing on the user! Organizing Class functionality Finally, the sections below are just more organizational stuff. I like to group all like things together. Again this is your call as to whether you want to do this kind of organization. '.------------------------------------------------------------------------- 'THESE FUNCTIONS SINK EVENTS DECLARED WITHEVENTS IN THIS CLASS '*+ Form WithEvent interface '*- Form WithEvent interface 'THESE FUNCTIONS / SUBS ARE USED TO IMPLEMENT CLASS FUNCTIONALITY '*+PRIVATE Class function / sub declaration '*-PRIVATE Class function / sub declaration '*+PUBLIC Class function / sub declaration '*-PUBLIC Class function / sub declaration Summary A framework is going to get complex, with many classes, classes instantiating other classes, setting up child object chains as they initialize and tearing down their child object chains as they terminate. It is critical that we have a system in place to assist us in getting this piece right or we will end up with chaos and applications that don't cleanup correctly. All of the stuff that I have shown above is an attempt to standardize the setup and teardown so that we can always count on doing things the same way, regardless of what class we are instantiating. Consistency goes a long way towards helping us learn this stuff quickly, and getting all the pieces to play together peacefully. John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com From jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com Fri Mar 12 06:22:00 2004 From: jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com (John W. Colby) Date: Fri, 12 Mar 2004 07:22:00 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Watching Data Attn:John Colby In-Reply-To: <115380-2200435121147447@M2W058.mail2web.com> Message-ID: Thanks for the link. I went there and scanned up and down but never found what you are referring to. John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of jmhla at earthlink.net Sent: Thursday, March 11, 2004 8:14 PM To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: [AccessD] Watching Data Attn:John Colby John, I was looking thriugh the downloads of the Access Web Ring. http://www.mvps.org/access/resources/downloads.htm There was an A97(?) sample of a history db to watch changes in tables. Will that help you? -------------------------------------------------------------------- mail2web - Check your email from the web at http://mail2web.com/ . -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From Mark.Mitsules at ngc.com Fri Mar 12 07:01:29 2004 From: Mark.Mitsules at ngc.com (Mitsules, Mark S. (Newport News)) Date: Fri, 12 Mar 2004 08:01:29 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Linking to Remote uSys Tables Message-ID: Group, I have a uSys table that I populate with login data. Regardless of the options set, it seems system tables do not show up when using the Link Table wizard. What would be the easiest way to link to a uSys table from a remote database? Mark From R.Griffiths at bury.gov.uk Fri Mar 12 07:07:31 2004 From: R.Griffiths at bury.gov.uk (Griffiths, Richard) Date: Fri, 12 Mar 2004 13:07:31 -0000 Subject: [AccessD] AccessRunTime files Message-ID: Hi Group I am considering using Inno Setup to deploy by Access 97 app. Has anyone a definitive list of files that need to be included in my script, where they should be installed, whether to use regserver (do all dll's need to be registered?)? I know this is asking a lot but...... Many thanks in advance Richard Griffiths From paul.hartland at fsmail.net Fri Mar 12 07:27:57 2004 From: paul.hartland at fsmail.net (paul.hartland at fsmail.net) Date: Fri, 12 Mar 2004 14:27:57 +0100 (CET) Subject: [AccessD] OT - Placing a program in startup Message-ID: <13622965.1079098077268.JavaMail.www@wwinf3001> To all, I know I should know this one, I have just finished an auto emailer program and compiled it, how do I get it to startup when my PC does. I have just come to do this and my minds gone totally blank..... Thanks in advance for you help.... Paul Freeserve AnyTime - HALF PRICE for the first 3 months - Save ?7.50 a month www.freeserve.com/anytime From rl_stewart at highstream.net Fri Mar 12 07:32:40 2004 From: rl_stewart at highstream.net (Robert L. Stewart) Date: Fri, 12 Mar 2004 07:32:40 -0600 Subject: [AccessD] Re: Combo on Continuous Form In-Reply-To: <200403120110.i2C1AQM09558@databaseadvisors.com> Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20040312073227.02ab4cd0@pop3.highstream.net> http://www.rogersaccesslibrary.com/ At 07:10 PM 3/11/2004 -0600, you wrote: >Date: Thu, 11 Mar 2004 20:56:48 +0000 >From: "Mark A Matte" >Subject: RE: [AccessD] Re: Combo on Continuous Form >To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com >Message-ID: >Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed > >What is the URL to Roger's site? > >Thanks, > >Mark From BarbaraRyan at cox.net Fri Mar 12 07:43:10 2004 From: BarbaraRyan at cox.net (Barbara Ryan) Date: Fri, 12 Mar 2004 08:43:10 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Run a report "invisibly" Message-ID: <003f01c40837$f5485bc0$0a00a8c0@cx470148a> Is there any way to run a report invisibly (i.e., "behind the scenes", without printing it) in Access 97? The only modes available are Preview, Normal, and Design. Thanks, Barb From rl_stewart at highstream.net Fri Mar 12 07:42:37 2004 From: rl_stewart at highstream.net (Robert L. Stewart) Date: Fri, 12 Mar 2004 07:42:37 -0600 Subject: [AccessD] Re: question on normalization In-Reply-To: <200403120110.i2C1AQM09558@databaseadvisors.com> Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20040312073404.02ab1c30@pop3.highstream.net> John, I have a table for the US with all that in it. Do you need it? For the normalization freaks (like me), here is a normalized design: tblPostalCode PostalCodeID AutoNumber (PK) PostalCode Text(10) CityID Long Integer RegionID Long Integer Unique index on PostalCode, CityID, RegionID tblCity CityID Autonumber (PK) CityName Text(30) Unique Index on CityName tblRegion RegionID Autonumber (PK) RegionName Text(30) CountryCode Text(2) Unique Index on RegionName, CountryCode tblCountry CountryCode Text(2) (PK) CountryName Text(30) Unique index on CountryName Robert P.S. The ISO standard is actually Division, if I remember correctly for the way I used region here. At 07:10 PM 3/11/2004 -0600, you wrote: >Date: Thu, 11 Mar 2004 16:55:17 -0500 >From: "John W. Colby" >Subject: RE: [AccessD] question on normalization >To: "Access Developers discussion and problem solving" > >Message-ID: >Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" > >David, > >Did you fill in this table with which Zips were in which town etc.? Or is >there a standard db out there somewhere with this stuff? > >John W. Colby >www.ColbyConsulting.com From rl_stewart at highstream.net Fri Mar 12 07:45:12 2004 From: rl_stewart at highstream.net (Robert L. Stewart) Date: Fri, 12 Mar 2004 07:45:12 -0600 Subject: [AccessD] Re: active design view in mde In-Reply-To: <200403120110.i2C1AQM09558@databaseadvisors.com> Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20040312074454.0298a298@pop3.highstream.net> No At 07:10 PM 3/11/2004 -0600, you wrote: >Date: Thu, 11 Mar 2004 18:17:51 -0500 >From: "John Eget" >Subject: [AccessD] active design view in mde >To: >Message-ID: <00bb01c407bf$16f80f00$7dc2f63f at Desktop> >Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" > >Is there anyway to active design view in an application that had been >compiled in an mde format? >Thanks >John From gustav at cactus.dk Fri Mar 12 07:43:56 2004 From: gustav at cactus.dk (Gustav Brock) Date: Fri, 12 Mar 2004 14:43:56 +0100 Subject: [AccessD] AccessRunTime files In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <5220470535.20040312144356@cactus.dk> Hi Richard I have a .stf file from a runtime installation of A97 - I'll mail it to you offline as a starting point. The specifics regarding Win95 and the installer itself may be excluded ... If you succeed with the free Inno Setup, please share. /gustav > I am considering using Inno Setup to deploy by Access 97 app. Has anyone a > definitive list of files that need to be included in my script, where they > should be installed, whether to use regserver (do all dll's need to be > registered?)? I know this is asking a lot but...... From gustav at cactus.dk Fri Mar 12 07:51:33 2004 From: gustav at cactus.dk (Gustav Brock) Date: Fri, 12 Mar 2004 14:51:33 +0100 Subject: [AccessD] Run a report "invisibly" In-Reply-To: <003f01c40837$f5485bc0$0a00a8c0@cx470148a> References: <003f01c40837$f5485bc0$0a00a8c0@cx470148a> Message-ID: <15120927231.20040312145133@cactus.dk> Hi Barbara Is this a Friday joke? Running a report invisibly without printing it?? Well, if you insist, you must have some action code when opening or closing the report; pull that off the report and run it separately. /gustav > Is there any way to run a report invisibly (i.e., "behind the scenes", without printing it) in Access 97? The only modes available are Preview, Normal, and Design. From michael.mattys at adelphia.net Fri Mar 12 07:54:09 2004 From: michael.mattys at adelphia.net (Michael R Mattys) Date: Fri, 12 Mar 2004 08:54:09 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Linking to Remote uSys Tables References: Message-ID: <00f201c40839$7eb9a430$6401a8c0@default> Mark, Does this work? SQL of query: Select * From usysTbl In 'C:\Remote.mdb' ---- Michael R. Mattys (724) 942-3437 Mattys MapLib for Microsoft MapPoint http://www.mattysconsulting.com ----- Original Message ----- From: "Mitsules, Mark S. (Newport News)" To: "'[AccessD]'" Sent: Friday, March 12, 2004 8:01 AM Subject: [AccessD] Linking to Remote uSys Tables > Group, > > I have a uSys table that I populate with login data. Regardless of the > options set, it seems system tables do not show up when using the Link Table > wizard. What would be the easiest way to link to a uSys table from a remote > database? > > > Mark > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From John.Clark at niagaracounty.com Fri Mar 12 07:56:11 2004 From: John.Clark at niagaracounty.com (John Clark) Date: Fri, 12 Mar 2004 08:56:11 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] question on normalization Message-ID: I have done a program, in the past, using the FMS zip code tables. This was updated once a month, and it included Canadian, US, and 'territories'. I don't want to go that large here, because the residences of the people in this database will be limited to 12 towns and 3 cities--roughly 19 zip codes. So I was just wondering if it was OK to have a single field table, or if I should include the zips with the towns. The reason I was seperating the zips from the towns was because some areas have multiple zips--for instance, Niagara Falls has 3 zip codes, not including a separate one for Niagara University--and I thought that might cause a problem. As a sidebar--sort of--why can't the zip itself be a primary key? >>> martyconnelly at shaw.ca 3/11/2004 9:29:46 PM >>> There are three or four good web services like USPS that provide this info, live via a soap call, of course you need an internet connection. You can interrogate these services from Access with just XML and a SOAP envelope over HTTP. You dont need all the soap toolkit jazz unless you want to write the proxy classes. They will also verify that the address is valid too. Such as street name spelling and number range. You can also buy the info via quarterly CD's. John W. Colby wrote: >David, > >Did you fill in this table with which Zips were in which town etc.? Or is >there a standard db out there somewhere with this stuff? > >John W. Colby >www.ColbyConsulting.com > >-----Original Message----- >From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com >[mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of David McAfee >Sent: Thursday, March 11, 2004 3:49 PM >To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' >Subject: RE: [AccessD] question on normalization > > >I our last system, we had a Zipcode table with 5 fields (and 45K+ records): >ZipID (PK Autonumber) >ZipCode (text,5) >City (text, 30) >State (text, 2) >DefaultCity (yes/no) > >I would look up a city based on zipcode entry. One of three results could >happen: > >0 records returned: Prompt to check if zipcode entry (later evolved into >adding new city) >1 record returned: populate city and state onto form > > >>1 record returned: pop up a mini screen with a list box showing all of the >> >> >cities using that zipcode. The default city is selected with the OK button >having focus. > >I would store every part of the address together for a given address. > >In our new system, we have the similar set up as above, but we only keep the >ZipID (ID, for the city, state and Zip) with the address. >The extra joins needed now are a bit of a pita, so I could imagine how much >more it would be to use a junction table containing an CSZid, CityID, Stid & >ZipID. > >I guess it all boils down to what level of normalization do you want to go? >3rd, 4th? > >Oh, btw, are you only dealing with US addresses or INTL addresses too? >Because that will add some twists too ;) >David > > > >-----Original Message----- >From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com >[mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of John Clark >Sent: Thursday, March 11, 2004 12:02 PM >To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com >Subject: [AccessD] question on normalization > > >quick question: > >I have a program that will be populated with a 'regional' group of >people--this meaning that everyone's address will be within this county. >So I am thinking that I can speed up entry, by using a drop-down for zip >codes and filling the town name from that. My question is, would it be >proper to have a separate table for town and another for zip code, even >though zip code would be a single field table? The town table would have >three tables, with one being a link to the Zip Code table, and the Zip >Code table would have a single field--"Zip". > >Thanks > >John W Clark > > >-- >_______________________________________________ >AccessD mailing list >AccessD at databaseadvisors.com >http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd >Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com >-- >_______________________________________________ >AccessD mailing list >AccessD at databaseadvisors.com >http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd >Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > > -- Marty Connelly Victoria, B.C. Canada -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From John.Clark at niagaracounty.com Fri Mar 12 07:56:01 2004 From: John.Clark at niagaracounty.com (John Clark) Date: Fri, 12 Mar 2004 08:56:01 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] question on normalization Message-ID: I would be very interested in seeing a sample David. This may work for me. Thanks! John W Clark >>> DMcAfee at haascnc.com 3/11/2004 5:16:16 PM >>> It was given to me many years ago, and I've just maintained it. I can give you a sample if you need. Our company has purchased "Perfect Address" software which can be called from Access. This is a system that corrects addresses. they put out updates monthly (IIRC). I use it in conjunction with my table. David -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of John W. Colby Sent: Thursday, March 11, 2004 1:55 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] question on normalization David, Did you fill in this table with which Zips were in which town etc.? Or is there a standard db out there somewhere with this stuff? John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of David McAfee Sent: Thursday, March 11, 2004 3:49 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: [AccessD] question on normalization I our last system, we had a Zipcode table with 5 fields (and 45K+ records): ZipID (PK Autonumber) ZipCode (text,5) City (text, 30) State (text, 2) DefaultCity (yes/no) I would look up a city based on zipcode entry. One of three results could happen: 0 records returned: Prompt to check if zipcode entry (later evolved into adding new city) 1 record returned: populate city and state onto form >1 record returned: pop up a mini screen with a list box showing all of the cities using that zipcode. The default city is selected with the OK button having focus. I would store every part of the address together for a given address. In our new system, we have the similar set up as above, but we only keep the ZipID (ID, for the city, state and Zip) with the address. The extra joins needed now are a bit of a pita, so I could imagine how much more it would be to use a junction table containing an CSZid, CityID, Stid & ZipID. I guess it all boils down to what level of normalization do you want to go? 3rd, 4th? Oh, btw, are you only dealing with US addresses or INTL addresses too? Because that will add some twists too ;) David -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of John Clark Sent: Thursday, March 11, 2004 12:02 PM To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: [AccessD] question on normalization quick question: I have a program that will be populated with a 'regional' group of people--this meaning that everyone's address will be within this county. So I am thinking that I can speed up entry, by using a drop-down for zip codes and filling the town name from that. My question is, would it be proper to have a separate table for town and another for zip code, even though zip code would be a single field table? The town table would have three tables, with one being a link to the Zip Code table, and the Zip Code table would have a single field--"Zip". Thanks John W Clark -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From Mark.Mitsules at ngc.com Fri Mar 12 08:00:36 2004 From: Mark.Mitsules at ngc.com (Mitsules, Mark S. (Newport News)) Date: Fri, 12 Mar 2004 09:00:36 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Linking to Remote uSys Tables Message-ID: Well, you know, I figured I'd have to at least wave my magic mojo bag around or something...but, thanks...yes, it really is that simple sometimes. Mark -----Original Message----- From: Michael R Mattys [mailto:michael.mattys at adelphia.net] Sent: Friday, March 12, 2004 8:54 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Linking to Remote uSys Tables Mark, Does this work? SQL of query: Select * From usysTbl In 'C:\Remote.mdb' ---- Michael R. Mattys (724) 942-3437 Mattys MapLib for Microsoft MapPoint http://www.mattysconsulting.com ----- Original Message ----- From: "Mitsules, Mark S. (Newport News)" To: "'[AccessD]'" Sent: Friday, March 12, 2004 8:01 AM Subject: [AccessD] Linking to Remote uSys Tables > Group, > > I have a uSys table that I populate with login data. Regardless of > the options set, it seems system tables do not show up when using the > Link Table > wizard. What would be the easiest way to link to a uSys table from a remote > database? > > > Mark > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From John.Clark at niagaracounty.com Fri Mar 12 07:59:27 2004 From: John.Clark at niagaracounty.com (John Clark) Date: Fri, 12 Mar 2004 08:59:27 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Re: question on normalization Message-ID: This is actually what I was looking at--keeping the zips and the towns seperated. Maybe I'm a closet freak myself--hmmph! John W Clark >>> rl_stewart at highstream.net 3/12/2004 8:42:37 AM >>> John, I have a table for the US with all that in it. Do you need it? For the normalization freaks (like me), here is a normalized design: tblPostalCode PostalCodeID AutoNumber (PK) PostalCode Text(10) CityID Long Integer RegionID Long Integer Unique index on PostalCode, CityID, RegionID tblCity CityID Autonumber (PK) CityName Text(30) Unique Index on CityName tblRegion RegionID Autonumber (PK) RegionName Text(30) CountryCode Text(2) Unique Index on RegionName, CountryCode tblCountry CountryCode Text(2) (PK) CountryName Text(30) Unique index on CountryName Robert P.S. The ISO standard is actually Division, if I remember correctly for the way I used region here. At 07:10 PM 3/11/2004 -0600, you wrote: >Date: Thu, 11 Mar 2004 16:55:17 -0500 >From: "John W. Colby" >Subject: RE: [AccessD] question on normalization >To: "Access Developers discussion and problem solving" > >Message-ID: >Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" > >David, > >Did you fill in this table with which Zips were in which town etc.? Or is >there a standard db out there somewhere with this stuff? > >John W. Colby >www.ColbyConsulting.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From Bryan_Carbonnell at cbc.ca Fri Mar 12 08:10:05 2004 From: Bryan_Carbonnell at cbc.ca (Bryan Carbonnell) Date: Fri, 12 Mar 2004 09:10:05 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Watching Data Attn:John Colby Message-ID: It's a little more than 1/2 way down the page called History. The direct link to a page talkinga bout it is: http://www.mvps.org/access/modules/mdl0021.htm Bryan Carbonnell bryan_carbonnell at cbc.ca >>> jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com 12-Mar-04 7:22:00 AM >>> Thanks for the link. I went there and scanned up and down but never found what you are referring to. John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of jmhla at earthlink.net Sent: Thursday, March 11, 2004 8:14 PM To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: [AccessD] Watching Data Attn:John Colby John, I was looking thriugh the downloads of the Access Web Ring. http://www.mvps.org/access/resources/downloads.htm There was an A97(?) sample of a history db to watch changes in tables. Will that help you? -------------------------------------------------------------------- mail2web - Check your email from the web at http://mail2web.com/ . -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From Lambert.Heenan at AIG.com Fri Mar 12 08:10:07 2004 From: Lambert.Heenan at AIG.com (Heenan, Lambert) Date: Fri, 12 Mar 2004 09:10:07 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Watching Data Attn:John Colby Message-ID: <8B98F8EA48F8BA47A2F24E0D0AF40CF407AD7FA8@xlivmbx12.aig.com> You scanned with the naked eye?!!! Just let the browser find the word "history" on the page and you go direct to this link... http://www.mvps.org/access/downloads/history.zip Lambert > -----Original Message----- > From: John W. Colby [SMTP:jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com] > Sent: Friday, March 12, 2004 7:22 AM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: RE: [AccessD] Watching Data Attn:John Colby > > Thanks for the link. I went there and scanned up and down but never found > what you are referring to. > > John W. Colby > www.ColbyConsulting.com > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of > jmhla at earthlink.net > Sent: Thursday, March 11, 2004 8:14 PM > To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com > Subject: [AccessD] Watching Data Attn:John Colby > > > John, > > I was looking thriugh the downloads of the Access Web Ring. > http://www.mvps.org/access/resources/downloads.htm > > There was an A97(?) sample of a history db to watch changes in tables. > Will > that help you? > > > > > -------------------------------------------------------------------- > mail2web - Check your email from the web at > http://mail2web.com/ . > > > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From serbach at new.rr.com Fri Mar 12 08:14:44 2004 From: serbach at new.rr.com (Steven W. Erbach) Date: Fri, 12 Mar 2004 08:14:44 -0600 Subject: [AccessD] Framework Discussion - Class Interface Message-ID: <20040312081444.1478249746.serbach@new.rr.com> John, I'm glad I managed to catch the trolley! Regards, Steve Erbach Scientific Marketing Neenah, WI 920-969-0504 Security and Virus information: http://www.swerbach.com/security/virusinfo.htm From Bryan_Carbonnell at cbc.ca Fri Mar 12 08:13:36 2004 From: Bryan_Carbonnell at cbc.ca (Bryan Carbonnell) Date: Fri, 12 Mar 2004 09:13:36 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Linking to Remote uSys Tables Message-ID: Mark, IF you have Show System Object on (Tools|Options... | View Tab | Check beside System Objects) then in the Link Tables Dialog your uSys table will should show up. >From there you can link it. Bryan Carbonnell bryan_carbonnell at cbc.ca >>> Mark.Mitsules at ngc.com 12-Mar-04 8:01:29 AM >>> Group, I have a uSys table that I populate with login data. Regardless of the options set, it seems system tables do not show up when using the Link Table wizard. What would be the easiest way to link to a uSys table from a remote database? From Mark.Mitsules at ngc.com Fri Mar 12 08:14:27 2004 From: Mark.Mitsules at ngc.com (Mitsules, Mark S. (Newport News)) Date: Fri, 12 Mar 2004 09:14:27 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] OT - Placing a program in startup Message-ID: Placing a shortcut to the .mdb into the Startup folder should work. Mark -----Original Message----- From: paul.hartland at fsmail.net [mailto:paul.hartland at fsmail.net] Sent: Friday, March 12, 2004 8:28 AM To: accessd Subject: [AccessD] OT - Placing a program in startup To all, I know I should know this one, I have just finished an auto emailer program and compiled it, how do I get it to startup when my PC does. I have just come to do this and my minds gone totally blank..... Thanks in advance for you help.... Paul Freeserve AnyTime - HALF PRICE for the first 3 months - Save ?7.50 a month www.freeserve.com/anytime -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From Mark.Mitsules at ngc.com Fri Mar 12 08:30:16 2004 From: Mark.Mitsules at ngc.com (Mitsules, Mark S. (Newport News)) Date: Fri, 12 Mar 2004 09:30:16 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Linking to Remote uSys Tables Message-ID: Have you verified that Bryan? I had both the show hidden objects and show system objects options checked in both my local and remote dbs, yet the uSys table did not show up when using the Link Table wizard:( Mark -----Original Message----- From: Bryan Carbonnell [mailto:Bryan_Carbonnell at cbc.ca] Sent: Friday, March 12, 2004 9:14 AM To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: Re: [AccessD] Linking to Remote uSys Tables Mark, IF you have Show System Object on (Tools|Options... | View Tab | Check beside System Objects) then in the Link Tables Dialog your uSys table will should show up. >From there you can link it. Bryan Carbonnell bryan_carbonnell at cbc.ca >>> Mark.Mitsules at ngc.com 12-Mar-04 8:01:29 AM >>> Group, I have a uSys table that I populate with login data. Regardless of the options set, it seems system tables do not show up when using the Link Table wizard. What would be the easiest way to link to a uSys table from a remote database? -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From Bryan_Carbonnell at cbc.ca Fri Mar 12 08:38:25 2004 From: Bryan_Carbonnell at cbc.ca (Bryan Carbonnell) Date: Fri, 12 Mar 2004 09:38:25 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Linking to Remote uSys Tables Message-ID: Yep. I just did it with A2K. Bryan >>> Mark.Mitsules at ngc.com 12-Mar-04 9:30:16 AM >>> Have you verified that Bryan? I had both the show hidden objects and show system objects options checked in both my local and remote dbs, yet the uSys table did not show up when using the Link Table wizard:( Mark -----Original Message----- From: Bryan Carbonnell [mailto:Bryan_Carbonnell at cbc.ca] Sent: Friday, March 12, 2004 9:14 AM To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: Re: [AccessD] Linking to Remote uSys Tables Mark, IF you have Show System Object on (Tools|Options... | View Tab | Check beside System Objects) then in the Link Tables Dialog your uSys table will should show up. >From there you can link it. Bryan Carbonnell bryan_carbonnell at cbc.ca >>> Mark.Mitsules at ngc.com 12-Mar-04 8:01:29 AM >>> Group, I have a uSys table that I populate with login data. Regardless of the options set, it seems system tables do not show up when using the Link Table wizard. What would be the easiest way to link to a uSys table from a remote database? -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From Bryan_Carbonnell at cbc.ca Fri Mar 12 08:45:19 2004 From: Bryan_Carbonnell at cbc.ca (Bryan Carbonnell) Date: Fri, 12 Mar 2004 09:45:19 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Linking to Remote uSys Tables Message-ID: Something just struck me. You wrote: > using the Link Table wizard:( You mean the one under File|Get External Data... | Link Tables... and not Tools|Database Utilities|Linked Table Manager right? If you are talking about the second one, you need to link the table before you can manage it. Bryan Carbonnell bryan_carbonnell at cbc.ca >>> Mark.Mitsules at ngc.com 12-Mar-04 9:30:16 AM >>> Have you verified that Bryan? I had both the show hidden objects and show system objects options checked in both my local and remote dbs, yet the uSys table did not show up when using the Link Table wizard:( From reuben at gfconsultants.com Fri Mar 12 08:44:17 2004 From: reuben at gfconsultants.com (Reuben Cummings) Date: Fri, 12 Mar 2004 09:44:17 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] BEU Update. Will you allow others to have a go? In-Reply-To: <4051698A.000003.37535@jedel> Message-ID: I'm willing to look at it. Do you have any specifics on adding a hyperlink via code, Dean? (It was a hyperlink you asked about?) Reuben Cummings GFC, LLC phone: 812.523.1017 email: reuben at gfconsultants.com > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Dean Ellis > Sent: Friday, March 12, 2004 2:41 AM > To: AccessD > Subject: [AccessD] BEU Update. Will you allow others to have a go? > > > Hi All, I have just recently installed the BEU modules into my > database with a great > deal of success. Well done Reuben, Andy, Lembit and Bryan. I did mention > that there was a Data Type missing from the dropdown list in the Add Field > selection subform. If it's ok with the creators of the BEU > modules (And only if it ok) I'd like > to open it up to the floor to see if anyone has the time to add this > datatype into the code. If I have stepped over the line here, I > apologise. I > just figured that the four guys that created this are obviously very busy > people and there may be some one else out there that could help? > Cheers Dean Ellis > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > From ssharkins at bellsouth.net Fri Mar 12 08:55:22 2004 From: ssharkins at bellsouth.net (Susan Harkins) Date: Fri, 12 Mar 2004 09:55:22 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] question on normalization In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <20040312145518.IHMK9700.imf21aec.mail.bellsouth.net@SUSANONE> As a sidebar--sort of--why can't the zip itself be a primary key? ========We're told that ZIP codes aren't unique -- most are, but there those few... I've not encountered it myself, but that's what we're told. ;) Susan H. From Mark.Mitsules at ngc.com Fri Mar 12 08:58:14 2004 From: Mark.Mitsules at ngc.com (Mitsules, Mark S. (Newport News)) Date: Fri, 12 Mar 2004 09:58:14 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Linking to Remote uSys Tables Message-ID: Neither actually...I was referring to being in the Table view of the Database Window clicking the New button, then Link Table. Maybe that explains the difference. Mark -----Original Message----- From: Bryan Carbonnell [mailto:Bryan_Carbonnell at cbc.ca] Sent: Friday, March 12, 2004 9:45 AM To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: RE: [AccessD] Linking to Remote uSys Tables Something just struck me. You wrote: > using the Link Table wizard:( You mean the one under File|Get External Data... | Link Tables... and not Tools|Database Utilities|Linked Table Manager right? If you are talking about the second one, you need to link the table before you can manage it. Bryan Carbonnell bryan_carbonnell at cbc.ca >>> Mark.Mitsules at ngc.com 12-Mar-04 9:30:16 AM >>> Have you verified that Bryan? I had both the show hidden objects and show system objects options checked in both my local and remote dbs, yet the uSys table did not show up when using the Link Table wizard:( -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From HollisVJ at pgdp.usec.com Fri Mar 12 09:00:34 2004 From: HollisVJ at pgdp.usec.com (Hollis,Virginia) Date: Fri, 12 Mar 2004 09:00:34 -0600 Subject: [AccessD] Vendor Table Message-ID: <618EB4D6DDCDD3119B0A00508B6FD37A0CB0D2D8@cntexchange.pgdp.usec.com> I am starting a new database - that seems fairly standard, but it is my first time with this type.... This database is to track vendor information & requests. I know I need a table with vendor information, one for the buyer, & one for contacts. The problem is I can't think of how to tie them all together, especially the buyer & requestor with the vendor. The buyer completes the form with all the vendor information, regular fields - name, address, terms. I guess my question is what do I put in a Main? table to tie all the information together? It is mostly just a form completed by the buyer and sent to another department for entry into the suppliers database. But the 2nd department wants to track the requests (where I come in). Virginia From John.Clark at niagaracounty.com Fri Mar 12 09:03:04 2004 From: John.Clark at niagaracounty.com (John Clark) Date: Fri, 12 Mar 2004 10:03:04 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] question on normalization Message-ID: But, in my case, it would be OK then? I will not have an issue with them being unique. JW Clark >>> ssharkins at bellsouth.net 3/12/2004 9:55:22 AM >>> As a sidebar--sort of--why can't the zip itself be a primary key? ========We're told that ZIP codes aren't unique -- most are, but there those few... I've not encountered it myself, but that's what we're told. ;) Susan H. -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From Bryan_Carbonnell at cbc.ca Fri Mar 12 09:09:20 2004 From: Bryan_Carbonnell at cbc.ca (Bryan Carbonnell) Date: Fri, 12 Mar 2004 10:09:20 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Linking to Remote uSys Tables Message-ID: Didn't know you could do that. Thanks!:) However that being said, takes me to the same spot as File|Get External Data... | Link Tables... does. I don't know why it's not working for you. I'm out of ideas. :( Bryan Carbonnell bryan_carbonnell at cbc.ca >>> Mark.Mitsules at ngc.com 12-Mar-04 9:58:14 AM >>> Neither actually...I was referring to being in the Table view of the Database Window clicking the New button, then Link Table. Maybe that explains the difference. Mark -----Original Message----- From: Bryan Carbonnell [mailto:Bryan_Carbonnell at cbc.ca] Sent: Friday, March 12, 2004 9:45 AM To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: RE: [AccessD] Linking to Remote uSys Tables Something just struck me. You wrote: > using the Link Table wizard:( You mean the one under File|Get External Data... | Link Tables... and not Tools|Database Utilities|Linked Table Manager right? If you are talking about the second one, you need to link the table before you can manage it. Bryan Carbonnell bryan_carbonnell at cbc.ca >>> Mark.Mitsules at ngc.com 12-Mar-04 9:30:16 AM >>> Have you verified that Bryan? I had both the show hidden objects and show system objects options checked in both my local and remote dbs, yet the uSys table did not show up when using the Link Table wizard:( -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From ssharkins at bellsouth.net Fri Mar 12 09:21:32 2004 From: ssharkins at bellsouth.net (Susan Harkins) Date: Fri, 12 Mar 2004 10:21:32 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] question on normalization In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <20040312152129.JGJM12770.imf19aec.mail.bellsouth.net@SUSANONE> I would think so, if that's what you want to do, but don't blame me if you run into trouble! ;) I don't believe you'll find duplicates in the same state. Susan H. But, in my case, it would be OK then? I will not have an issue with them being unique. JW Clark >>> ssharkins at bellsouth.net 3/12/2004 9:55:22 AM >>> As a sidebar--sort of--why can't the zip itself be a primary key? ========We're told that ZIP codes aren't unique -- most are, but there those few... I've not encountered it myself, but that's what we're told. ;) Susan H. -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From BarbaraRyan at cox.net Fri Mar 12 09:41:58 2004 From: BarbaraRyan at cox.net (Barbara Ryan) Date: Fri, 12 Mar 2004 10:41:58 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Run a report "invisibly" References: <003f01c40837$f5485bc0$0a00a8c0@cx470148a> <15120927231.20040312145133@cactus.dk> Message-ID: <007b01c40848$8e3c4ac0$0a00a8c0@cx470148a> Hi, Gustav... I wish it was a joke!!! The report is pretty complex, with 12 subreports. There are hundreds of calculations performed (in the report as well as all the subreports)--- subtotals of 2 or more subreports used in calculations in other subreports, etc. The report also outputs data to a spreadsheet. The data in the report is (almost) exactly what I need to create an export file requested by the client. However, I need to have a separate interface for the export file function. I would like to execute the report "invisibly" --- to get the data I need --- and then just create my export file. Is it possible to "turn off" the default printer (so the report won't print), execute the report in Normal mode, then turn the default printer back on? Any other suggestions? Thanks, Barb ----- Original Message ----- From: "Gustav Brock" To: "Access Developers discussion and problem solving" Sent: Friday, March 12, 2004 8:51 AM Subject: Re: [AccessD] Run a report "invisibly" > Hi Barbara > > Is this a Friday joke? > Running a report invisibly without printing it?? > > Well, if you insist, you must have some action code when opening or > closing the report; pull that off the report and run it separately. > > /gustav > > > > Is there any way to run a report invisibly (i.e., "behind the scenes", without printing it) in Access 97? The only modes available are Preview, Normal, and Design. > > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From artful at rogers.com Fri Mar 12 12:48:38 2004 From: artful at rogers.com (Arthur Fuller) Date: Fri, 12 Mar 2004 10:48:38 -0800 Subject: [AccessD] DependentObjects class In-Reply-To: <4050883A.7227.1C1E18E@localhost> Message-ID: <000001c40862$a7396430$6501a8c0@rock> Further, in the O-O courses that I have taken this kind of thing is specifically discouraged because it tightly couples the controls. Instead, they recommend creating creating a class that holds both controls as attributes of the class. This may or may not work in VBA, of course. In addition, in many cases where I have seen this sort of "one combo depends on another's value" thing done, it is IMO frequently the result of bad design at the database level. For example, a table contains say State and City fields, populated from the tables States and Cities -- and then the UI filters the Cities field on the basis of the State selection: bad design, IMO. There's no need to store the State, since we have the city, and New York exists in only one state. On the other hand, take the case of ProductCategories and Products. At the database level, IMO, the same pertains: do not store the category since it can be inferred from the product. However, it may well be useful for the user to select a category and then a product from said category. So in that case we're back to the custom class that embeds both combos. I don't know if that approach can work in Access. I leave that to JC to determine. But I do believe that designing classes that know specifics about other classes (i.e. worst of all is that they must know the name of the other class's instance) is fundamentally incorrect. Just my $.02 Arthur -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Stuart McLachlan Sent: Wednesday, March 10, 2004 9:40 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problemsolving Subject: Re: [AccessD] DependentObjects class On 11 Mar 2004 at 0:11, John W. Colby wrote: > I am working on a dependentobjects class, i.e. a class with a > collection which holds objects (classes) where the control or form is > dependent on the current control. Combo A changes. Combo B uses > Combo A to filter itself. Combo B is "dependent" on combo A and must > be requeried whenever Combo A changes. > > This is a case where I programmed a solution working but it was ugly. > How would you solve this problem? > I doubt if I would do it with a class. It's not *that* common a requirement and there are so many different ways that you can end up with circular references, CtlA - CtlB - CtlC - CtlD...... CtlX - CtlC etc that trying to allow for them would end up with such code bolat that the whole thing became inefficient. -- Lexacorp Ltd http://www.lexacorp.com.pg Information Technology Consultancy, Software Development,System Support. -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From gustav at cactus.dk Fri Mar 12 09:59:17 2004 From: gustav at cactus.dk (Gustav Brock) Date: Fri, 12 Mar 2004 16:59:17 +0100 Subject: [AccessD] Run a report "invisibly" In-Reply-To: <007b01c40848$8e3c4ac0$0a00a8c0@cx470148a> References: <003f01c40837$f5485bc0$0a00a8c0@cx470148a> <15120927231.20040312145133@cactus.dk> <007b01c40848$8e3c4ac0$0a00a8c0@cx470148a> Message-ID: <16028591872.20040312165917@cactus.dk> Hi Barbara You would still get the "Now printing report ..." message box. I would bite the bullet and work with the queries and subqueries for the export. That would probably run way faster too. /gustav > Hi, Gustav... > I wish it was a joke!!! > The report is pretty complex, with 12 subreports. There are hundreds of > calculations performed (in the report as well as all the subreports)--- > subtotals of 2 or more subreports used in calculations in other subreports, > etc. The report also outputs data to a spreadsheet. > The data in the report is (almost) exactly what I need to create an export > file requested by the client. However, I need to have a separate interface > for the export file function. I would like to execute the report > "invisibly" --- to get the data I need --- and then just create my export > file. > Is it possible to "turn off" the default printer (so the report won't > print), execute the report in Normal mode, then turn the default printer > back on? > Any other suggestions? > Thanks, > Barb > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Gustav Brock" > To: "Access Developers discussion and problem solving" > > Sent: Friday, March 12, 2004 8:51 AM > Subject: Re: [AccessD] Run a report "invisibly" >> Hi Barbara >> >> Is this a Friday joke? >> Running a report invisibly without printing it?? >> >> Well, if you insist, you must have some action code when opening or >> closing the report; pull that off the report and run it separately. >> >> /gustav >> >> >> > Is there any way to run a report invisibly (i.e., "behind the scenes", > without printing it) in Access 97? The only modes available are Preview, > Normal, and Design. From ssharkins at bellsouth.net Fri Mar 12 10:05:04 2004 From: ssharkins at bellsouth.net (Susan Harkins) Date: Fri, 12 Mar 2004 11:05:04 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Run a report "invisibly" In-Reply-To: <16028591872.20040312165917@cactus.dk> Message-ID: <20040312160500.OKVY15240.imf17aec.mail.bellsouth.net@SUSANONE> I went looking for a Print to File setting in VBA and found nothing -- surely there is one? Susan H. Hi Barbara You would still get the "Now printing report ..." message box. I would bite the bullet and work with the queries and subqueries for the export. That would probably run way faster too. /gustav > Hi, Gustav... > I wish it was a joke!!! > The report is pretty complex, with 12 subreports. There are hundreds > of calculations performed (in the report as well as all the > subreports)--- subtotals of 2 or more subreports used in calculations > in other subreports, etc. The report also outputs data to a spreadsheet. > The data in the report is (almost) exactly what I need to create an > export file requested by the client. However, I need to have a > separate interface for the export file function. I would like to > execute the report "invisibly" --- to get the data I need --- and then > just create my export file. > Is it possible to "turn off" the default printer (so the report won't > print), execute the report in Normal mode, then turn the default > printer back on? > Any other suggestions? > Thanks, > Barb > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Gustav Brock" > To: "Access Developers discussion and problem solving" > > Sent: Friday, March 12, 2004 8:51 AM > Subject: Re: [AccessD] Run a report "invisibly" >> Hi Barbara >> >> Is this a Friday joke? >> Running a report invisibly without printing it?? >> >> Well, if you insist, you must have some action code when opening or >> closing the report; pull that off the report and run it separately. >> >> /gustav >> >> >> > Is there any way to run a report invisibly (i.e., "behind the scenes", > without printing it) in Access 97? The only modes available are Preview, > Normal, and Design. -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From jmhla at earthlink.net Fri Mar 12 10:06:08 2004 From: jmhla at earthlink.net (Joe Hecht) Date: Fri, 12 Mar 2004 08:06:08 -0800 Subject: [AccessD] Watching Data Attn:John Colby In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <000001c4084b$f1d3de60$6501a8c0@delllaptop> It is called History. The description is pasted below. It opens a download box not a link. I do not know how to send better explination History >From Gary Labowitz. A Sample database explaining how to track record changes in one or more table. Notes JOE HECHT LOS ANGELES CA -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of John W. Colby Sent: Friday, March 12, 2004 4:22 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] Watching Data Attn:John Colby Thanks for the link. I went there and scanned up and down but never found what you are referring to. John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of jmhla at earthlink.net Sent: Thursday, March 11, 2004 8:14 PM To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: [AccessD] Watching Data Attn:John Colby John, I was looking thriugh the downloads of the Access Web Ring. http://www.mvps.org/access/resources/downloads.htm There was an A97(?) sample of a history db to watch changes in tables. Will that help you? -------------------------------------------------------------------- mail2web - Check your email from the web at http://mail2web.com/ . -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From gustav at cactus.dk Fri Mar 12 10:15:41 2004 From: gustav at cactus.dk (Gustav Brock) Date: Fri, 12 Mar 2004 17:15:41 +0100 Subject: [AccessD] Run a report "invisibly" In-Reply-To: <20040312160500.OKVY15240.imf17aec.mail.bellsouth.net@SUSANONE> References: <20040312160500.OKVY15240.imf17aec.mail.bellsouth.net@SUSANONE> Message-ID: <14229575537.20040312171541@cactus.dk> Hi Susan > I went looking for a Print to File setting in VBA and found nothing -- > surely there is one? Yes but that is for the printer (object) ... not a nice thing to manipulate for this task only. /gustav > You would still get the "Now printing report ..." message box. > I would bite the bullet and work with the queries and subqueries for the > export. That would probably run way faster too. > /gustav >> Hi, Gustav... >> I wish it was a joke!!! >> The report is pretty complex, with 12 subreports. There are hundreds >> of calculations performed (in the report as well as all the >> subreports)--- subtotals of 2 or more subreports used in calculations >> in other subreports, etc. The report also outputs data to a spreadsheet. >> The data in the report is (almost) exactly what I need to create an >> export file requested by the client. However, I need to have a >> separate interface for the export file function. I would like to >> execute the report "invisibly" --- to get the data I need --- and then >> just create my export file. >> Is it possible to "turn off" the default printer (so the report won't >> print), execute the report in Normal mode, then turn the default >> printer back on? >>> Hi Barbara >>> >>> Is this a Friday joke? >>> Running a report invisibly without printing it?? >>> >>> Well, if you insist, you must have some action code when opening or >>> closing the report; pull that off the report and run it separately. >>> >>> /gustav >>> >>> >>> > Is there any way to run a report invisibly (i.e., "behind the scenes", >> without printing it) in Access 97? The only modes available are Preview, >> Normal, and Design. From DWUTKA at marlow.com Fri Mar 12 10:17:17 2004 From: DWUTKA at marlow.com (DWUTKA at marlow.com) Date: Fri, 12 Mar 2004 10:17:17 -0600 Subject: [AccessD] Vendor Table Message-ID: <2F8793082E00D4119A1700B0D0216BF802227963@main2.marlow.com> Sounds like a PO system. The PurchaseOrder table would be the 'tie in'. You would have a PO Number, then a buyerID, VendorID, and your items. Depends on how complex you want to make it, you should probably have a PO Line Items table. Drew -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Hollis,Virginia Sent: Friday, March 12, 2004 9:01 AM To: 'accessd at databaseadvisors.com' Subject: [AccessD] Vendor Table I am starting a new database - that seems fairly standard, but it is my first time with this type.... This database is to track vendor information & requests. I know I need a table with vendor information, one for the buyer, & one for contacts. The problem is I can't think of how to tie them all together, especially the buyer & requestor with the vendor. The buyer completes the form with all the vendor information, regular fields - name, address, terms. I guess my question is what do I put in a Main? table to tie all the information together? It is mostly just a form completed by the buyer and sent to another department for entry into the suppliers database. But the 2nd department wants to track the requests (where I come in). Virginia -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From BBarabash at TappeConstruction.com Fri Mar 12 10:28:57 2004 From: BBarabash at TappeConstruction.com (Brett Barabash) Date: Fri, 12 Mar 2004 10:28:57 -0600 Subject: [AccessD] Run a report "invisibly" Message-ID: <426071E0B0A6D311B3C0006008B0AB23AFE3F2@TAPPEEXCH01> How about running the report in preview mode? You could use Application.Echo False to disable screen updating (with extreme caution to ensure that it gets turned back on when you are done). Note: By default, only the first couple of pages page format when you preview a report. However, if you bind a textbox to the =[Pages] property, it forces the entire report to execute. After all this is done, you could use DoCmd.Close acReport, to close it. > Hi, Gustav... > I wish it was a joke!!! > The report is pretty complex, with 12 subreports. There are hundreds of > calculations performed (in the report as well as all the subreports)--- > subtotals of 2 or more subreports used in calculations in other subreports, > etc. The report also outputs data to a spreadsheet. > The data in the report is (almost) exactly what I need to create an export > file requested by the client. However, I need to have a separate interface > for the export file function. I would like to execute the report > "invisibly" --- to get the data I need --- and then just create my export > file. > Is it possible to "turn off" the default printer (so the report won't > print), execute the report in Normal mode, then turn the default printer > back on? > Any other suggestions? > Thanks, > Barb > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Gustav Brock" > To: "Access Developers discussion and problem solving" > > Sent: Friday, March 12, 2004 8:51 AM > Subject: Re: [AccessD] Run a report "invisibly" >> Hi Barbara >> >> Is this a Friday joke? >> Running a report invisibly without printing it?? >> >> Well, if you insist, you must have some action code when opening or >> closing the report; pull that off the report and run it separately. >> >> /gustav >> >> >> > Is there any way to run a report invisibly (i.e., "behind the scenes", > without printing it) in Access 97? The only modes available are Preview, > Normal, and Design. -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- The information in this email may contain confidential information that is legally privileged. The information is only for the use of the intended recipient(s) named above. If you are not the intended recipient(s), you are hereby notified that any disclosure, copying, distribution, or the taking of any action in regard to the content of this fax is strictly prohibited. If transmission is incorrect, unclear, or incomplete, please notify the sender immediately. The authorized recipient(s) of this information is/are prohibited from disclosing this information to any other party and is/are required to destroy the information after its stated need has been fulfilled. Any views expressed in this message are those of the individual sender, except where the sender specifies and with authority, states them to be the views of Tappe Construction Co. This footer also confirms that this email message has been scanned for the presence of computer viruses.Scanning of this message and addition of this footer is performed by SurfControl E-mail Filter software in conjunction with virus detection software. From cfoust at infostatsystems.com Fri Mar 12 10:33:49 2004 From: cfoust at infostatsystems.com (Charlotte Foust) Date: Fri, 12 Mar 2004 08:33:49 -0800 Subject: [AccessD] DependentObjects class Message-ID: Unfortunately, some city names get recycled among states, Arthur. Witness Kansas City, Kansas, and Kansas City, Missouri. There is no guarantee that the city defines the state. The same is true of counties and other location names. There certainly are a few unique city names, but that isn't enough to form the basis of a design. Charlotte Foust -----Original Message----- From: Arthur Fuller [mailto:artful at rogers.com] Sent: Friday, March 12, 2004 10:49 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: [AccessD] DependentObjects class Further, in the O-O courses that I have taken this kind of thing is specifically discouraged because it tightly couples the controls. Instead, they recommend creating creating a class that holds both controls as attributes of the class. This may or may not work in VBA, of course. In addition, in many cases where I have seen this sort of "one combo depends on another's value" thing done, it is IMO frequently the result of bad design at the database level. For example, a table contains say State and City fields, populated from the tables States and Cities -- and then the UI filters the Cities field on the basis of the State selection: bad design, IMO. There's no need to store the State, since we have the city, and New York exists in only one state. On the other hand, take the case of ProductCategories and Products. At the database level, IMO, the same pertains: do not store the category since it can be inferred from the product. However, it may well be useful for the user to select a category and then a product from said category. So in that case we're back to the custom class that embeds both combos. I don't know if that approach can work in Access. I leave that to JC to determine. But I do believe that designing classes that know specifics about other classes (i.e. worst of all is that they must know the name of the other class's instance) is fundamentally incorrect. Just my $.02 Arthur -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Stuart McLachlan Sent: Wednesday, March 10, 2004 9:40 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problemsolving Subject: Re: [AccessD] DependentObjects class On 11 Mar 2004 at 0:11, John W. Colby wrote: > I am working on a dependentobjects class, i.e. a class with a > collection which holds objects (classes) where the control or form is > dependent on the current control. Combo A changes. Combo B uses > Combo A to filter itself. Combo B is "dependent" on combo A and must > be requeried whenever Combo A changes. > > This is a case where I programmed a solution working but it was ugly. > How would you solve this problem? > I doubt if I would do it with a class. It's not *that* common a requirement and there are so many different ways that you can end up with circular references, CtlA - CtlB - CtlC - CtlD...... CtlX - CtlC etc that trying to allow for them would end up with such code bolat that the whole thing became inefficient. -- Lexacorp Ltd http://www.lexacorp.com.pg Information Technology Consultancy, Software Development,System Support. -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From cfoust at infostatsystems.com Fri Mar 12 10:40:26 2004 From: cfoust at infostatsystems.com (Charlotte Foust) Date: Fri, 12 Mar 2004 08:40:26 -0800 Subject: [AccessD] question on normalization Message-ID: Unfortunately, while zip codes are supposed to be unique, they may be shared among several small towns or a town may have multiple zip codes. Some buildings even have unique zip codes, but generally zip codes belong to post offices. I would say they were not a good candidate for a primary key in dealing with addresses. I've worked with postal databases and seen some of the "duplicate" zips, where several small towns share a post office and a zip code. A further complication is the +four extension. Charlotte Foust -----Original Message----- From: John Clark [mailto:John.Clark at niagaracounty.com] Sent: Friday, March 12, 2004 7:03 AM To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: RE: [AccessD] question on normalization But, in my case, it would be OK then? I will not have an issue with them being unique. JW Clark >>> ssharkins at bellsouth.net 3/12/2004 9:55:22 AM >>> As a sidebar--sort of--why can't the zip itself be a primary key? ========We're told that ZIP codes aren't unique -- most are, but there those few... I've not encountered it myself, but that's what we're told. ;) Susan H. -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From Bryan_Carbonnell at cbc.ca Fri Mar 12 10:45:08 2004 From: Bryan_Carbonnell at cbc.ca (Bryan Carbonnell) Date: Fri, 12 Mar 2004 11:45:08 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] DependentObjects class Message-ID: > In addition, in many cases where I have seen this sort of "one combo > depends on another's value" thing done, it is IMO frequently the result > of bad design at the database level. For example, a table contains say > State and City fields, populated from the tables States and Cities -- > and then the UI filters the Cities field on the basis of the State > selection: bad design, IMO. There's no need to store the State, since we > have the city, and New York exists in only one state. Storing the State is not required if you know the city?? IMO that is rubbish!!!! How do you differentiate between the 7 New Yorks in the US if you don't store the state? New York,NY New York,TX New York,FL New York,IA New York,KY New York,MO New York,NM http://www.mapquest.com/maps/map.adp?city=New%20York&country=US to check for yourself. Bryan Carbonnell bryan_carbonnell at cbc.ca >>> artful at rogers.com 12-Mar-04 1:48:38 PM >>> Further, in the O-O courses that I have taken this kind of thing is specifically discouraged because it tightly couples the controls. Instead, they recommend creating creating a class that holds both controls as attributes of the class. This may or may not work in VBA, of course. In addition, in many cases where I have seen this sort of "one combo depends on another's value" thing done, it is IMO frequently the result of bad design at the database level. For example, a table contains say State and City fields, populated from the tables States and Cities -- and then the UI filters the Cities field on the basis of the State selection: bad design, IMO. There's no need to store the State, since we have the city, and New York exists in only one state. From ssharkins at bellsouth.net Fri Mar 12 10:46:59 2004 From: ssharkins at bellsouth.net (Susan Harkins) Date: Fri, 12 Mar 2004 11:46:59 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] question on normalization In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <20040312164655.PIGF15240.imf17aec.mail.bellsouth.net@SUSANONE> Oh! I hadn't realized this was the problem -- I see what you're saying -- totally missed that possibility. Susan H. Unfortunately, while zip codes are supposed to be unique, they may be shared among several small towns or a town may have multiple zip codes. Some buildings even have unique zip codes, but generally zip codes belong to post offices. I would say they were not a good candidate for a primary key in dealing with addresses. I've worked with postal databases and seen some of the "duplicate" zips, where several small towns share a post office and a zip code. A further complication is the +four extension. From rl_stewart at highstream.net Fri Mar 12 11:01:09 2004 From: rl_stewart at highstream.net (Robert L. Stewart) Date: Fri, 12 Mar 2004 11:01:09 -0600 Subject: [AccessD] Re: question on normalization In-Reply-To: <200403121446.i2CEk8M28074@databaseadvisors.com> Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20040312110029.02a9b4d0@pop3.highstream.net> My zip code 77418 covers 4 communities. I live in 1 or the 4. Robert At 08:46 AM 3/12/2004 -0600, you wrote: >Date: Fri, 12 Mar 2004 08:56:11 -0500 >From: "John Clark" >Subject: Re: [AccessD] question on normalization >To: >Message-ID: >Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII > >I have done a program, in the past, using the FMS zip code tables. This >was updated once a month, and it included Canadian, US, and >'territories'. > >I don't want to go that large here, because the residences of the >people in this database will be limited to 12 towns and 3 >cities--roughly 19 zip codes. So I was just wondering if it was OK to >have a single field table, or if I should include the zips with the >towns. The reason I was seperating the zips from the towns was because >some areas have multiple zips--for instance, Niagara Falls has 3 zip >codes, not including a separate one for Niagara University--and I >thought that might cause a problem. > >As a sidebar--sort of--why can't the zip itself be a primary key? From jwelz at hotmail.com Fri Mar 12 11:07:57 2004 From: jwelz at hotmail.com (Jürgen Welz) Date: Fri, 12 Mar 2004 10:07:57 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] Re: Printing forms Message-ID: There's always the PrintScrn button. Open Word and paste. Ciao J?rgen Welz Edmonton, Alberta jwelz at hotmail.com >From: rsmethurst at uk.ey.com > >Robert, > >Thanks for the reply. I'm aware of what forms and reports are used for. > >However, in this instance I need to print a screen-dump of a form. - I'll >elaborate on the scenario. > >On these forms (and there are many of them - mostly inherited from a >previous version of this app) there are graphs, combo boxes, datasheets >and drill down sub forms, allowing the user to make multiple (and usually >quite detailed) selections on the data. Once those selections are made >the users (as per the spec and the previous app versions) would like to >print a view of the actual form (i.e their selections and however that has >affected the data/graphs etc) - something which by and large works fine >except for the items I listed below. (The unbound combo's/radio's etc.) >The database (by design - out my hands) contains no reports - only these >screen prints. > >An obviouse work around is to put labels on the offending controls >(populate them with the required data) and make them visible only when >printing, but this seems crude if it would work....in fact it does - >previous versions of this app have shown that. I would just like to know >if there is a quicker way to do this. Printing bound controls is fine (in >fact even unbound controls with a default value set) - from what I can >see, it is the unbound ones without defaults that are problematic. > >Even if the users/project sponsors were open to reports in this instance >(which they are not) I just haven't got the time to go and develop the >number of reports that would duplicate what is on these numerous forms >(some of which are extremely complex) at this stage of the project. > >So, in summary, what I am hoping for, is info about the the most feasible >way to achieve this, given the time constraints I have mentioned above. >(It might be the labels...but I live in hope for a more simple/timely >solution) > >Ryan > > > > > >"Robert L. Stewart" >Sent by: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com >11/03/2004 18:15 >Please respond to Access Developers discussion and problem solving > > > To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com > cc: > Subject: [AccessD] Re: Printing forms > > >Ryan, > >That is because you print reports and not forms. > >Forms are for data entry. Reports are for printing. > >Robert > >At 11:46 AM 3/11/2004 -0600, you wrote: > >Date: Thu, 11 Mar 2004 17:42:38 +0000 > >From: rsmethurst at UK.EY.COM > >Subject: [AccessD] Printing forms > >To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > > > >Message-ID: > > > >Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" > > > >Hi All, > > > >I am having a problem printing forms - specifically it is with combo >boxes > >and radio buttons (usually within frames) which do not print with the > >correct option filled. > > > >i.e two radio buttons and both will print blank, even though the first >one > >is selected. > >and a combo box with have a selected value, but will not display this > >value when the form prints. > > > >The controls are all set to display for both print and screen, and the > >controls are unbound. > > > >TIA > > > >Ryan _________________________________________________________________ STOP MORE SPAM with the MSN Premium and get 2 months FREE* http://join.msn.com/?pgmarket=en-ca&page=byoa/prem&xAPID=1994&DI=1034&SU=http://hotmail.com/enca&HL=Market_MSNIS_Taglines From rl_stewart at highstream.net Fri Mar 12 11:11:37 2004 From: rl_stewart at highstream.net (Robert L. Stewart) Date: Fri, 12 Mar 2004 11:11:37 -0600 Subject: [AccessD] Re: question on normalization In-Reply-To: <200403121446.i2CEk8M28074@databaseadvisors.com> Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20040312110409.02a9f2d8@pop3.highstream.net> Welcome fellow freak. ;-) Also, you should technically do this in addition: tblCounty CountyID Autonumber (PK) CountyName Text(30) Unique Index tblCountyRegion CountyRegionID Autonumber (PK) CountyID Long Integer RegionID Long Integer Unique Index CountyID, RegionID Change tblPostalCode to tblPostalCode PostalCodeID AutoNumber (PK) PostalCode Text(10) CityID Long Integer CountyRegionID Long Integer Unique index on PostalCode, CityID, CountyRegionID That should take care of it. ;-) Robert P.S. When you look at some of the ISO standards for this kins of information, it gets very interesting. At 08:46 AM 3/12/2004 -0600, you wrote: >Date: Fri, 12 Mar 2004 08:59:27 -0500 >From: "John Clark" >Subject: [AccessD] Re: question on normalization >To: >Message-ID: >Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII > >This is actually what I was looking at--keeping the zips and the towns >seperated. > >Maybe I'm a closet freak myself--hmmph! > >John W Clark > > > >>> rl_stewart at highstream.net 3/12/2004 8:42:37 AM >>> > >John, > >I have a table for the US with all that >in it. Do you need it? > >For the normalization freaks (like me), >here is a normalized design: > >tblPostalCode >PostalCodeID AutoNumber (PK) >PostalCode Text(10) >CityID Long Integer >RegionID Long Integer > >Unique index on PostalCode, CityID, RegionID > >tblCity >CityID Autonumber (PK) >CityName Text(30) > >Unique Index on CityName > >tblRegion >RegionID Autonumber (PK) >RegionName Text(30) >CountryCode Text(2) > >Unique Index on RegionName, CountryCode > >tblCountry >CountryCode Text(2) (PK) >CountryName Text(30) > >Unique index on CountryName > > >Robert > >P.S. The ISO standard is actually Division, if I remember >correctly for the way I used region here. From Patricia.O'Connor at DFA.STATE.NY.US Fri Mar 12 11:19:31 2004 From: Patricia.O'Connor at DFA.STATE.NY.US (O'Connor, Patricia ) Date: Fri, 12 Mar 2004 12:19:31 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Framework Discussion - Who's following this Message-ID: Thanks John for all your work. I have not been able to read your posts yet, been bogged down with other projects and just returned from a trip. As soon as I am caught up with the 400 backlogged emails I will read this. B - EXTREMELY INTERESTED - I have an access 97 application that needs to be brought up to 2003. While doing this I would like to streamline some of its components. C - skimming - hopefully once I really get to read it all it will be clear c/d - once I get to it I will download and work with examples. Thanks again for all your work Patti > -----Original Message----- > From: John W. Colby [mailto:jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com] > Sent: Monday, March 08, 2004 01:44 PM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: [AccessD] Framework Discussion - Who's following this > > > My objective with this discussion is to explain the concepts and > implementation of frameworks in sufficient detail that anyone > willing to > learn can pick up at least a few new ideas, understand > classes and how they > can solve problems, understand withevents and how using them > allows us to > encapsulate entire subsystems into an object, and understand > Frameworks and > how and why they might be useful. I know that this is a rather large > objective, and that some of these subjects seem rather deep. I am > attempting to keep the details clean and uncluttered in the > beginning so > that you can not get bogged down in stuff not relevant to the specific > subject of the specific post. > > In order to accomplish this objective I need to get a feeling > for who is > following this discussion and at what level. Would everyone > interested in > this thread please answer the following questions: > > 1) Interest Level > a) I already pretty much do what you are discussing, > just wanted to see how > you do it. > b) I am extremely interested in this concept and > subject, would probably > use it if I can figure it out. > c) I am interested and might start using some of this stuff. > d) Moderately interested, probably too much work for > what I see getting out > of it > e) Marginally interested, probably never use any of it. > > 2) Understanding > a) I understand completely what is going on > b) I mostly follow what is happening but have a couple > of things I don't > really understand > c) I am trying my best but can't really follow a lot of it > d) Hopelessly lost, want to understand but need you to > slow down a bit. > > 3) Participation > a) I am scanning the posts lightly to just get the basics > b) I am reading it and attempting to follow the examples. > c) I am reading the posts and working through the > included code, and have > downloaded the example database > d) I am reading and have downloaded the database, and > have worked through > the examples in the database to see how this stuff works. > > I truly appreciate your participation. > > Thanks, > > John W. Colby > www.ColbyConsulting.com > > > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > From BarbaraRyan at cox.net Fri Mar 12 11:28:43 2004 From: BarbaraRyan at cox.net (Barbara Ryan) Date: Fri, 12 Mar 2004 12:28:43 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Run a report "invisibly" References: <426071E0B0A6D311B3C0006008B0AB23AFE3F2@TAPPEEXCH01> Message-ID: <00c501c40857$77b45360$0a00a8c0@cx470148a> Thanks, Brett.... I might try this. I'm going to talk it over with the client. Barb ----- Original Message ----- From: "Brett Barabash" To: "'Access Developers discussion and problem solving'" Sent: Friday, March 12, 2004 11:28 AM Subject: RE: [AccessD] Run a report "invisibly" > How about running the report in preview mode? > > You could use Application.Echo False to disable screen updating (with > extreme caution to ensure that it gets turned back on when you are done). > > Note: By default, only the first couple of pages page format when you > preview a report. However, if you bind a textbox to the =[Pages] property, > it forces the entire report to execute. After all this is done, you could > use DoCmd.Close acReport, to close it. > > > > Hi, Gustav... > > > I wish it was a joke!!! > > > The report is pretty complex, with 12 subreports. There are hundreds of > > calculations performed (in the report as well as all the subreports)--- > > subtotals of 2 or more subreports used in calculations in other > subreports, > > etc. The report also outputs data to a spreadsheet. > > > The data in the report is (almost) exactly what I need to create an export > > file requested by the client. However, I need to have a separate > interface > > for the export file function. I would like to execute the report > > "invisibly" --- to get the data I need --- and then just create my export > > file. > > > Is it possible to "turn off" the default printer (so the report won't > > print), execute the report in Normal mode, then turn the default printer > > back on? > > > Any other suggestions? > > > Thanks, > > Barb > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: "Gustav Brock" > > To: "Access Developers discussion and problem solving" > > > > Sent: Friday, March 12, 2004 8:51 AM > > Subject: Re: [AccessD] Run a report "invisibly" > > > >> Hi Barbara > >> > >> Is this a Friday joke? > >> Running a report invisibly without printing it?? > >> > >> Well, if you insist, you must have some action code when opening or > >> closing the report; pull that off the report and run it separately. > >> > >> /gustav > >> > >> > >> > Is there any way to run a report invisibly (i.e., "behind the scenes", > > without printing it) in Access 97? The only modes available are Preview, > > Normal, and Design. > > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > -------------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------------------ > The information in this email may contain confidential information that > is legally privileged. The information is only for the use of the intended > recipient(s) named above. If you are not the intended recipient(s), you > are hereby notified that any disclosure, copying, distribution, or the taking > of any action in regard to the content of this fax is strictly prohibited. If > transmission is incorrect, unclear, or incomplete, please notify the sender > immediately. The authorized recipient(s) of this information is/are prohibited > from disclosing this information to any other party and is/are required to > destroy the information after its stated need has been fulfilled. > > Any views expressed in this message are those of the individual > sender, except where the sender specifies and with authority, > states them to be the views of Tappe Construction Co. > > This footer also confirms that this email message has been scanned > for the presence of computer viruses.Scanning of this message and > addition of this footer is performed by SurfControl E-mail Filter software > in conjunction with virus detection software. > > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From Mark.Mitsules at ngc.com Fri Mar 12 11:31:44 2004 From: Mark.Mitsules at ngc.com (Mitsules, Mark S. (Newport News)) Date: Fri, 12 Mar 2004 12:31:44 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Run a report "invisibly" Message-ID: Using the default print dialogue, I recently utilized the "print to file" option to generate a table of contents from code behind a HUGE report. I just deleted the print file afterwards...the generated file was all I needed. This sounds similar to your situation. Mark -----Original Message----- From: Susan Harkins [mailto:ssharkins at bellsouth.net] Sent: Friday, March 12, 2004 11:05 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: [AccessD] Run a report "invisibly" I went looking for a Print to File setting in VBA and found nothing -- surely there is one? Susan H. Hi Barbara You would still get the "Now printing report ..." message box. I would bite the bullet and work with the queries and subqueries for the export. That would probably run way faster too. /gustav > Hi, Gustav... > I wish it was a joke!!! > The report is pretty complex, with 12 subreports. There are hundreds > of calculations performed (in the report as well as all the > subreports)--- subtotals of 2 or more subreports used in calculations > in other subreports, etc. The report also outputs data to a spreadsheet. > The data in the report is (almost) exactly what I need to create an > export file requested by the client. However, I need to have a > separate interface for the export file function. I would like to > execute the report "invisibly" --- to get the data I need --- and then > just create my export file. > Is it possible to "turn off" the default printer (so the report won't > print), execute the report in Normal mode, then turn the default > printer back on? > Any other suggestions? > Thanks, > Barb > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Gustav Brock" > To: "Access Developers discussion and problem solving" > > Sent: Friday, March 12, 2004 8:51 AM > Subject: Re: [AccessD] Run a report "invisibly" >> Hi Barbara >> >> Is this a Friday joke? >> Running a report invisibly without printing it?? >> >> Well, if you insist, you must have some action code when opening or >> closing the report; pull that off the report and run it separately. >> >> /gustav >> >> >> > Is there any way to run a report invisibly (i.e., "behind the >> > scenes", > without printing it) in Access 97? The only modes available are > Preview, Normal, and Design. -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From BarbaraRyan at cox.net Fri Mar 12 11:49:36 2004 From: BarbaraRyan at cox.net (Barbara Ryan) Date: Fri, 12 Mar 2004 12:49:36 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Run a report "invisibly" References: Message-ID: <00d001c4085a$62d19e00$0a00a8c0@cx470148a> Mark... is the "print to file" option available in Access 97? Sorry, I'm not familiar with it......Thanks, Barb ----- Original Message ----- From: "Mitsules, Mark S. (Newport News)" To: "'Access Developers discussion and problem solving'" Sent: Friday, March 12, 2004 12:31 PM Subject: RE: [AccessD] Run a report "invisibly" > Using the default print dialogue, I recently utilized the "print to file" > option to generate a table of contents from code behind a HUGE report. I > just deleted the print file afterwards...the generated file was all I > needed. > > This sounds similar to your situation. > > > > Mark > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: Susan Harkins [mailto:ssharkins at bellsouth.net] > Sent: Friday, March 12, 2004 11:05 AM > To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' > Subject: RE: [AccessD] Run a report "invisibly" > > > I went looking for a Print to File setting in VBA and found nothing -- > surely there is one? > > Susan H. > > Hi Barbara > > You would still get the "Now printing report ..." message box. > > I would bite the bullet and work with the queries and subqueries for the > export. That would probably run way faster too. > > /gustav > > > > Hi, Gustav... > > > I wish it was a joke!!! > > > The report is pretty complex, with 12 subreports. There are hundreds > > of calculations performed (in the report as well as all the > > subreports)--- subtotals of 2 or more subreports used in calculations > > in other subreports, etc. The report also outputs data to a spreadsheet. > > > The data in the report is (almost) exactly what I need to create an > > export file requested by the client. However, I need to have a > > separate interface for the export file function. I would like to > > execute the report "invisibly" --- to get the data I need --- and then > > just create my export file. > > > Is it possible to "turn off" the default printer (so the report won't > > print), execute the report in Normal mode, then turn the default > > printer back on? > > > Any other suggestions? > > > Thanks, > > Barb > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: "Gustav Brock" > > To: "Access Developers discussion and problem solving" > > > > Sent: Friday, March 12, 2004 8:51 AM > > Subject: Re: [AccessD] Run a report "invisibly" > > > >> Hi Barbara > >> > >> Is this a Friday joke? > >> Running a report invisibly without printing it?? > >> > >> Well, if you insist, you must have some action code when opening or > >> closing the report; pull that off the report and run it separately. > >> > >> /gustav > >> > >> > >> > Is there any way to run a report invisibly (i.e., "behind the > >> > scenes", > > without printing it) in Access 97? The only modes available are > > Preview, Normal, and Design. > > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From Patricia.O'Connor at DFA.STATE.NY.US Fri Mar 12 11:19:31 2004 From: Patricia.O'Connor at DFA.STATE.NY.US (O'Connor, Patricia ) Date: Fri, 12 Mar 2004 12:19:31 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Framework Discussion - Who's following this Message-ID: Thanks John for all your work. I have not been able to read your posts yet, been bogged down with other projects and just returned from a trip. As soon as I am caught up with the 400 backlogged emails I will read this. B - EXTREMELY INTERESTED - I have an access 97 application that needs to be brought up to 2003. While doing this I would like to streamline some of its components. C - skimming - hopefully once I really get to read it all it will be clear c/d - once I get to it I will download and work with examples. Thanks again for all your work Patti > -----Original Message----- > From: John W. Colby [mailto:jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com] > Sent: Monday, March 08, 2004 01:44 PM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: [AccessD] Framework Discussion - Who's following this > > > My objective with this discussion is to explain the concepts and > implementation of frameworks in sufficient detail that anyone > willing to > learn can pick up at least a few new ideas, understand > classes and how they > can solve problems, understand withevents and how using them > allows us to > encapsulate entire subsystems into an object, and understand > Frameworks and > how and why they might be useful. I know that this is a rather large > objective, and that some of these subjects seem rather deep. I am > attempting to keep the details clean and uncluttered in the > beginning so > that you can not get bogged down in stuff not relevant to the specific > subject of the specific post. > > In order to accomplish this objective I need to get a feeling > for who is > following this discussion and at what level. Would everyone > interested in > this thread please answer the following questions: > > 1) Interest Level > a) I already pretty much do what you are discussing, > just wanted to see how > you do it. > b) I am extremely interested in this concept and > subject, would probably > use it if I can figure it out. > c) I am interested and might start using some of this stuff. > d) Moderately interested, probably too much work for > what I see getting out > of it > e) Marginally interested, probably never use any of it. > > 2) Understanding > a) I understand completely what is going on > b) I mostly follow what is happening but have a couple > of things I don't > really understand > c) I am trying my best but can't really follow a lot of it > d) Hopelessly lost, want to understand but need you to > slow down a bit. > > 3) Participation > a) I am scanning the posts lightly to just get the basics > b) I am reading it and attempting to follow the examples. > c) I am reading the posts and working through the > included code, and have > downloaded the example database > d) I am reading and have downloaded the database, and > have worked through > the examples in the database to see how this stuff works. > > I truly appreciate your participation. > > Thanks, > > John W. Colby > www.ColbyConsulting.com > > > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > From HollisVJ at pgdp.usec.com Fri Mar 12 11:47:57 2004 From: HollisVJ at pgdp.usec.com (Hollis,Virginia) Date: Fri, 12 Mar 2004 11:47:57 -0600 Subject: [AccessD] Vendor Table Message-ID: <618EB4D6DDCDD3119B0A00508B6FD37A0CB0D2DE@cntexchange.pgdp.usec.com> Ok, that makes sense. Where would the Payment Terms, Ship Via, Freight Terms go - which table? Virginia -----Original Message----- From: DWUTKA at marlow.com [mailto:DWUTKA at marlow.com] Sent: Friday, March 12, 2004 10:17 AM To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: RE: [AccessD] Vendor Table Sounds like a PO system. The PurchaseOrder table would be the 'tie in'. You would have a PO Number, then a buyerID, VendorID, and your items. Depends on how complex you want to make it, you should probably have a PO Line Items table. Drew -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Hollis,Virginia Sent: Friday, March 12, 2004 9:01 AM To: 'accessd at databaseadvisors.com' Subject: [AccessD] Vendor Table I am starting a new database - that seems fairly standard, but it is my first time with this type.... This database is to track vendor information & requests. I know I need a table with vendor information, one for the buyer, & one for contacts. The problem is I can't think of how to tie them all together, especially the buyer & requestor with the vendor. The buyer completes the form with all the vendor information, regular fields - name, address, terms. I guess my question is what do I put in a Main? table to tie all the information together? It is mostly just a form completed by the buyer and sent to another department for entry into the suppliers database. But the 2nd department wants to track the requests (where I come in). Virginia -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From Lambert.Heenan at AIG.com Fri Mar 12 11:52:28 2004 From: Lambert.Heenan at AIG.com (Heenan, Lambert) Date: Fri, 12 Mar 2004 12:52:28 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Linking to Remote uSys Tables Message-ID: <8B98F8EA48F8BA47A2F24E0D0AF40CF407AD7FAF@xlivmbx12.aig.com> Just to confirm that, like Bryan, I see the USYS tables whichever way I try to get at them. As long as the "View System Objects" option is turned on. Lambert > -----Original Message----- > From: Bryan Carbonnell [SMTP:Bryan_Carbonnell at cbc.ca] > Sent: Friday, March 12, 2004 10:09 AM > To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com > Subject: [AccessD] Linking to Remote uSys Tables > > Didn't know you could do that. Thanks!:) > > However that being said, takes me to the same spot as File|Get External > Data... | Link Tables... does. > > I don't know why it's not working for you. I'm out of ideas. :( > > Bryan Carbonnell > bryan_carbonnell at cbc.ca > > >>> Mark.Mitsules at ngc.com 12-Mar-04 9:58:14 AM >>> > Neither actually...I was referring to being in the Table view of the > Database Window clicking the New button, then Link Table. Maybe that > explains the difference. > > > > Mark > > > -----Original Message----- > From: Bryan Carbonnell [mailto:Bryan_Carbonnell at cbc.ca] > Sent: Friday, March 12, 2004 9:45 AM > To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com > Subject: RE: [AccessD] Linking to Remote uSys Tables > > > Something just struck me. > > You wrote: > > using the Link Table wizard:( > > You mean the one under > File|Get External Data... | Link Tables... > > and not > > Tools|Database Utilities|Linked Table Manager > > right? > > If you are talking about the second one, you need to link the table > before > you can manage it. > > Bryan Carbonnell > bryan_carbonnell at cbc.ca > > >>> Mark.Mitsules at ngc.com 12-Mar-04 9:30:16 AM >>> > Have you verified that Bryan? > > I had both the show hidden objects and show system objects options > checked > in both my local and remote dbs, yet the uSys table did not show up > when > using the Link Table wizard:( > > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From DWUTKA at marlow.com Fri Mar 12 11:56:28 2004 From: DWUTKA at marlow.com (DWUTKA at marlow.com) Date: Fri, 12 Mar 2004 11:56:28 -0600 Subject: [AccessD] Framework Discussion - Who's following this Message-ID: <2F8793082E00D4119A1700B0D0216BF802227967@main2.marlow.com> 1) Interest Level: Kind of (a). I do a lot of ASP stuff, with VB .dll's in the background. Even though I am not dealing with 'bound forms', I am still creating a project framework, that handles the 'transactions'. Similar concepts. 2) Understanding: Understand what you are doing just fine, so I guess that's (a) again. 3) Participation: Not on the list. So (e): reading the posts just to see if you're doing something I haven't discovered myself. Basically, reading for the sake of picking up new tips/tricks. Something I'd like to ask, in an earlier post, you were explaining how you were 'linking' your Class objects. Just out of curiousity, why not do something like this: FrameWorkControl Class: Option Compare Database Property Set LinkedObject(objTemp As Object) End Property Public Function CleanUp() End Function Property Get ObjectName() As String End Property Property Get ObjectType() As String End Property FWComboBox Class: Option Compare Database Implements FrameWorkControl Dim WithEvents lnkObject As ComboBox Private Function FrameWorkControl_CleanUp() As Variant Set lnkObject = Nothing End Function Private Property Set FrameWorkControl_LinkedObject(RHS As Object) Set lnkObject = RHS lnkObject.OnClick = "[Event Procedure]" End Property Private Property Get FrameWorkControl_ObjectName() As String FrameWorkControl_ObjectName = lnkObject.Name End Property Private Property Get FrameWorkControl_ObjectType() As String FrameWorkControl_ObjectType = "ComboBox" End Property Private Sub lnkObject_Click() MsgBox lnkObject.Name End Sub FWTextBox Class: Option Compare Database Implements FrameWorkControl Dim WithEvents lnkObject As TextBox Private Function FrameWorkControl_CleanUp() As Variant Set lnkObject = Nothing End Function Private Property Set FrameWorkControl_LinkedObject(RHS As Object) Set lnkObject = RHS lnkObject.OnClick = "[Event Procedure]" End Property Private Property Get FrameWorkControl_ObjectName() As String FrameWorkControl_ObjectName = lnkObject.Name End Property Private Property Get FrameWorkControl_ObjectType() As String FrameWorkControl_ObjectType = "TextBox" End Property Private Sub lnkObject_Click() MsgBox lnkObject.Name End Sub Example Form Code: Dim FrameWorkObjects As Collection Private Sub Form_Load() Dim FWObj As FrameWorkControl Dim ctrl As Control Dim blValidControl As Boolean Set FrameWorkObjects = New Collection For Each ctrl In Me.Controls blValidControl = False If TypeOf ctrl Is TextBox Then Set FWObj = New FWTextBox blValidControl = True End If If TypeOf ctrl Is ComboBox Then Set FWObj = New FWComboBox blValidControl = True End If If blValidControl Then Set FWObj.LinkedObject = ctrl FrameWorkObjects.Add FWObj, FWObj.ObjectName Set FWObj = Nothing End If Next End Sub From fahooper at trapo.com Fri Mar 12 13:33:47 2004 From: fahooper at trapo.com (Fred Hooper) Date: Fri, 12 Mar 2004 14:33:47 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Detect form height In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <001901c40868$f11babc0$f0bffea9@fred> I have a A2K app where the users like to resize the continuous forms to show more records. However, after they've done so the height shrinks a bit each time the form is opened and, eventually, they're back to showing a single record. Is there any way to detect the form's height (probably when the form closes) so I can save it and use DoCmd.MoveSize to return the form to the chosen size? TIA From HollisVJ at pgdp.usec.com Fri Mar 12 13:47:38 2004 From: HollisVJ at pgdp.usec.com (Hollis,Virginia) Date: Fri, 12 Mar 2004 13:47:38 -0600 Subject: [AccessD] Field Cannot be Updated Message-ID: <618EB4D6DDCDD3119B0A00508B6FD37A0CB0D2E2@cntexchange.pgdp.usec.com> I am creating a form for vendor information, it contains a tabbed form with the regular vendor data from tblVendor. The 2nd tab comes from tblType - tblType lists the different types of businesses the vendor can be (Small, women-owned, etc). The last tab is a subform for adding the vendor contacts (tblContact). When I make a new entry and type something in any of the fields on the first tab for Vendor information, I receive - Field Cannot be Updated - I have never seen this message before. After several clicks of OK, the data I typed in the field shows & the record works just fine - all the other fields can be updated and the record shows all the data. What & where should I look to find what is causing the error? tblVendor has VendorID PK tblType has VendorID FK tblContact has VendorID FK I have Cascade Update & Delete checked - would this have something to do with the error? I have used it before without errors. Virginia From HollisVJ at pgdp.usec.com Fri Mar 12 14:37:13 2004 From: HollisVJ at pgdp.usec.com (Hollis,Virginia) Date: Fri, 12 Mar 2004 14:37:13 -0600 Subject: [AccessD] Field Cannot be Updated Message-ID: <618EB4D6DDCDD3119B0A00508B6FD37A0CB0D2E6@cntexchange.pgdp.usec.com> Should tblVendor have TypeID as a FK? Virginia -----Original Message----- From: Hollis,Virginia [mailto:HollisVJ at pgdp.usec.com] Sent: Friday, March 12, 2004 1:48 PM To: 'accessd at databaseadvisors.com' Subject: [AccessD] Field Cannot be Updated I am creating a form for vendor information, it contains a tabbed form with the regular vendor data from tblVendor. The 2nd tab comes from tblType - tblType lists the different types of businesses the vendor can be (Small, women-owned, etc). The last tab is a subform for adding the vendor contacts (tblContact). When I make a new entry and type something in any of the fields on the first tab for Vendor information, I receive - Field Cannot be Updated - I have never seen this message before. After several clicks of OK, the data I typed in the field shows & the record works just fine - all the other fields can be updated and the record shows all the data. What & where should I look to find what is causing the error? tblVendor has VendorID PK tblType has VendorID FK tblContact has VendorID FK I have Cascade Update & Delete checked - would this have something to do with the error? I have used it before without errors. Virginia -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From joconnell at indy.rr.com Fri Mar 12 15:25:45 2004 From: joconnell at indy.rr.com (Joseph O'Connell) Date: Fri, 12 Mar 2004 16:25:45 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Detect form height Message-ID: <011e01c40878$a98240c0$6701a8c0@joe> Fred, You will need to capture the height of each section in the OnClose event. lngHeaderHeight = Me.Section(acHeader).Height lngDetailHeight = Me.Section(acDetail).Height lngFooterHeight = Me.Section(acFooter).Height To restore the form to its original dimensions, reverse the statements in the OnOpen event Me.Section(acHeader).Height = lngHeaderHeight Me.Section(acDetail).Height = lngDetailHeight Me.Section(acFooter).Height = lngFooterHeight Of course you will need to store the values in the OnClose event and retrieve them in the OnOpen event. Joe O'Connell -----Original Message----- From: Fred Hooper To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Date: Friday, March 12, 2004 2:38 PM Subject: [AccessD] Detect form height |I have a A2K app where the users like to resize the continuous forms to show |more records. |However, after they've done so the height shrinks a bit each time the form |is opened and, eventually, they're back to showing a single record. | |Is there any way to detect the form's height (probably when the form closes) |so I can save it and use DoCmd.MoveSize to return the form to the chosen |size? | |TIA | |-- |_______________________________________________ |AccessD mailing list |AccessD at databaseadvisors.com |http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd |Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com Fri Mar 12 16:11:13 2004 From: jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com (John W. Colby) Date: Fri, 12 Mar 2004 17:11:13 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] DependentObjects class In-Reply-To: <000001c40862$a7396430$6501a8c0@rock> Message-ID: >Instead, they recommend creating a class that holds both controls as attributes of the class. This may or may not work in VBA, of course. And of course that can be done. However since the framework exists (or will!) and it has a combo class, why not allow any combo to know that something else is dependent on it, and then when it changes go requery anything that is dependent? In addition, in many cases where I have seen this sort of "one combo depends on another's value" thing done, it is IMO frequently the result of bad design at the database level. Yes, but you intentionally chose an example of normalization issues. What about companies / people / employees? As you select a different company in ComboA you want the "choice" of Employees in ComboB to change? What about Companies / payments, companies / invoices, companies... Dependent combos is SO common that it is a frequent "how do I" topic on this very list. >So in that case we're back to the custom class that embeds both combos. Absolutely possible and in fact easy using classes and Withevents. But again, all I have to do is tell the class instance for ComboA that ComboA "is dependent on it" and then whenever ComboA changes it automatically requeries ComboB. If comboC is dependent on ComboB, then when ComboB is requeried by ComboA, ComboB looks in it's dependent objects collection (or class) and requeries all of ITs dependent objects. This is a classic case of a normal framework behavior replacing custom programming. >But I do believe that designing classes that know specifics about other classes (i.e. worst of all is that they must know the name of the other class's instance) is fundamentally incorrect. The class doesn't know anything except it has a collection of objects that it needs to requery!!! No clue at all what the objects are, just that they are in its collection and it needs to call a requery method for each one. In fact the objects can be other combos, other lists, subforms, other open forms... anything in the application that is a class and as a requery method. The DEVELOPER knows that ComboB depends on ComboA and in the form's Open event tells the framework (a specific class instance). Further combos aren't the only objects that can have dependent objects. Basically anything (any control) that can be referenced by the SQL of another control can have dependent objects. A text box can be referenced by a combo so it can have a dependent objects class. Likewise a checkbox, a radio button, ANYTHING that can be referenced by SQL in the recordset for a control or form. Stick around for the discussion, we are about to add that functionality to our "framework" (it isn't a framework yet!) so you can see what I am talking about. John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Arthur Fuller Sent: Friday, March 12, 2004 1:49 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: [AccessD] DependentObjects class Further, in the O-O courses that I have taken this kind of thing is specifically discouraged because it tightly couples the controls. Instead, they recommend creating creating a class that holds both controls as attributes of the class. This may or may not work in VBA, of course. In addition, in many cases where I have seen this sort of "one combo depends on another's value" thing done, it is IMO frequently the result of bad design at the database level. For example, a table contains say State and City fields, populated from the tables States and Cities -- and then the UI filters the Cities field on the basis of the State selection: bad design, IMO. There's no need to store the State, since we have the city, and New York exists in only one state. On the other hand, take the case of ProductCategories and Products. At the database level, IMO, the same pertains: do not store the category since it can be inferred from the product. However, it may well be useful for the user to select a category and then a product from said category. So in that case we're back to the custom class that embeds both combos. I don't know if that approach can work in Access. I leave that to JC to determine. But I do believe that designing classes that know specifics about other classes (i.e. worst of all is that they must know the name of the other class's instance) is fundamentally incorrect. Just my $.02 Arthur -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Stuart McLachlan Sent: Wednesday, March 10, 2004 9:40 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problemsolving Subject: Re: [AccessD] DependentObjects class On 11 Mar 2004 at 0:11, John W. Colby wrote: > I am working on a dependentobjects class, i.e. a class with a > collection which holds objects (classes) where the control or form is > dependent on the current control. Combo A changes. Combo B uses > Combo A to filter itself. Combo B is "dependent" on combo A and must > be requeried whenever Combo A changes. > > This is a case where I programmed a solution working but it was ugly. > How would you solve this problem? > I doubt if I would do it with a class. It's not *that* common a requirement and there are so many different ways that you can end up with circular references, CtlA - CtlB - CtlC - CtlD...... CtlX - CtlC etc that trying to allow for them would end up with such code bolat that the whole thing became inefficient. -- Lexacorp Ltd http://www.lexacorp.com.pg Information Technology Consultancy, Software Development,System Support. -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com Fri Mar 12 16:14:28 2004 From: jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com (John W. Colby) Date: Fri, 12 Mar 2004 17:14:28 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Framework Discussion - Who's following this In-Reply-To: <2F8793082E00D4119A1700B0D0216BF802227967@main2.marlow.com> Message-ID: Ooooh I'm gonna have to work through that since I don't understand what you are up to. I'm assuming that we are talking interfaces here? John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of DWUTKA at marlow.com Sent: Friday, March 12, 2004 12:56 PM To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: RE: [AccessD] Framework Discussion - Who's following this 1) Interest Level: Kind of (a). I do a lot of ASP stuff, with VB .dll's in the background. Even though I am not dealing with 'bound forms', I am still creating a project framework, that handles the 'transactions'. Similar concepts. 2) Understanding: Understand what you are doing just fine, so I guess that's (a) again. 3) Participation: Not on the list. So (e): reading the posts just to see if you're doing something I haven't discovered myself. Basically, reading for the sake of picking up new tips/tricks. Something I'd like to ask, in an earlier post, you were explaining how you were 'linking' your Class objects. Just out of curiousity, why not do something like this: FrameWorkControl Class: Option Compare Database Property Set LinkedObject(objTemp As Object) End Property Public Function CleanUp() End Function Property Get ObjectName() As String End Property Property Get ObjectType() As String End Property FWComboBox Class: Option Compare Database Implements FrameWorkControl Dim WithEvents lnkObject As ComboBox Private Function FrameWorkControl_CleanUp() As Variant Set lnkObject = Nothing End Function Private Property Set FrameWorkControl_LinkedObject(RHS As Object) Set lnkObject = RHS lnkObject.OnClick = "[Event Procedure]" End Property Private Property Get FrameWorkControl_ObjectName() As String FrameWorkControl_ObjectName = lnkObject.Name End Property Private Property Get FrameWorkControl_ObjectType() As String FrameWorkControl_ObjectType = "ComboBox" End Property Private Sub lnkObject_Click() MsgBox lnkObject.Name End Sub FWTextBox Class: Option Compare Database Implements FrameWorkControl Dim WithEvents lnkObject As TextBox Private Function FrameWorkControl_CleanUp() As Variant Set lnkObject = Nothing End Function Private Property Set FrameWorkControl_LinkedObject(RHS As Object) Set lnkObject = RHS lnkObject.OnClick = "[Event Procedure]" End Property Private Property Get FrameWorkControl_ObjectName() As String FrameWorkControl_ObjectName = lnkObject.Name End Property Private Property Get FrameWorkControl_ObjectType() As String FrameWorkControl_ObjectType = "TextBox" End Property Private Sub lnkObject_Click() MsgBox lnkObject.Name End Sub Example Form Code: Dim FrameWorkObjects As Collection Private Sub Form_Load() Dim FWObj As FrameWorkControl Dim ctrl As Control Dim blValidControl As Boolean Set FrameWorkObjects = New Collection For Each ctrl In Me.Controls blValidControl = False If TypeOf ctrl Is TextBox Then Set FWObj = New FWTextBox blValidControl = True End If If TypeOf ctrl Is ComboBox Then Set FWObj = New FWComboBox blValidControl = True End If If blValidControl Then Set FWObj.LinkedObject = ctrl FrameWorkObjects.Add FWObj, FWObj.ObjectName Set FWObj = Nothing End If Next End Sub -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From my.lists at verizon.net Fri Mar 12 17:58:17 2004 From: my.lists at verizon.net (Francisco H Tapia) Date: Fri, 12 Mar 2004 15:58:17 -0800 Subject: [AccessD] PING Message-ID: <40524E99.9030901@verizon.net> NO ARCHIVE -- -Francisco From joeget at vgernet.net Fri Mar 12 18:29:21 2004 From: joeget at vgernet.net (John Eget) Date: Fri, 12 Mar 2004 19:29:21 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] date on HP PCs References: <00b701c407be$e0afba10$7dc2f63f@Desktop> <40510DDB.2090208@shaw.ca> Message-ID: <005b01c40892$b9cddba0$8ac2f63f@Desktop> it is the exact same database on each pc ----- Original Message ----- From: "MartyConnelly" To: "Access Developers discussion and problem solving" Sent: Thursday, March 11, 2004 8:09 PM Subject: Re: [AccessD] date on HP PCs > Probably a missing reference. On the HP's open up the mdb modules > Tools--> Reference and check for the flagged missing ones. > You may have something like a specific reference pointer to ADO MDAC 2.5 > and say you are using WinXP( it will only have ADO 2.7 by default.) > > > > John Eget wrote: > > >I had the oddest thing happen today, My databases do not show =Date(), but only on the new HPs in work. > >Has anyone come across this before? > >John > > > > > > -- > Marty Connelly > Victoria, B.C. > Canada > > > > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From my.lists at verizon.net Fri Mar 12 18:46:10 2004 From: my.lists at verizon.net (Francisco H Tapia) Date: Fri, 12 Mar 2004 16:46:10 -0800 Subject: [AccessD] Are you part of the 98%? Message-ID: <405259D2.80905@verizon.net> Because it's Friday.... -- -Francisco ------------------- Take the test; it is amazing - Let me know what percentage range you fall into - Test Just follow the instructions as quickly as possible. Do not go to the next calculation before you have finished the previous one. You do not need to write or remember the answers, just do it using your mind. You'll be surprised. Start: How much is: 15+6 3+56 89+2 12+53 75+26 25+52 63+32 I know! Calculations are hard work but it's nearly over... Come on, one more... 123+5 QUICK! THINK ABOUT A TOOL AND A COLOR! Scroll further to the bottom... A bit more... You have just thought about a red hammer, haven't you???? If this is not the case, you are among 2% of people who have a "different" if not "abnormal" mind. 98% of the folks would answer a "red hammer" while doing this exercise. From Kenneth.Stoker at pnl.gov Fri Mar 12 18:54:11 2004 From: Kenneth.Stoker at pnl.gov (Stoker, Kenneth E) Date: Fri, 12 Mar 2004 16:54:11 -0800 Subject: [AccessD] Are you part of the 98%? Message-ID: <249C1CB246997C48BB74963CCD361C1B014A0567@pnlmse28.pnl.gov> So I thought of a wrench and green. Must be odd.:-) Ken Stoker -----Original Message----- From: Francisco H Tapia [mailto:my.lists at verizon.net] Sent: Friday, March 12, 2004 4:46 PM To: AccessD; Access-L Subject: [AccessD] Are you part of the 98%? Because it's Friday.... -- -Francisco ------------------- Take the test; it is amazing - Let me know what percentage range you fall into - Test Just follow the instructions as quickly as possible. Do not go to the next calculation before you have finished the previous one. You do not need to write or remember the answers, just do it using your mind. You'll be surprised. Start: How much is: 15+6 3+56 89+2 12+53 75+26 25+52 63+32 I know! Calculations are hard work but it's nearly over... Come on, one more... 123+5 QUICK! THINK ABOUT A TOOL AND A COLOR! Scroll further to the bottom... A bit more... You have just thought about a red hammer, haven't you???? If this is not the case, you are among 2% of people who have a "different" if not "abnormal" mind. 98% of the folks would answer a "red hammer" while doing this exercise. -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com Fri Mar 12 18:59:12 2004 From: jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com (John W. Colby) Date: Fri, 12 Mar 2004 19:59:12 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Are you part of the 98%? In-Reply-To: <405259D2.80905@verizon.net> Message-ID: That's amazing, but especially so because I thought BLACK hammer. WHY hammer? I think the most common tool is hammer and we're going with "off the cuff" or very fast responses, then RED is thought of similarly, "first color out of your mouth". It would be nice to know if Black is aberrant. ;-) John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Francisco H Tapia Sent: Friday, March 12, 2004 7:46 PM To: AccessD; Access-L Subject: [AccessD] Are you part of the 98%? Because it's Friday.... -- -Francisco ------------------- Take the test; it is amazing - Let me know what percentage range you fall into - Test Just follow the instructions as quickly as possible. Do not go to the next calculation before you have finished the previous one. You do not need to write or remember the answers, just do it using your mind. You'll be surprised. Start: How much is: 15+6 3+56 89+2 12+53 75+26 25+52 63+32 I know! Calculations are hard work but it's nearly over... Come on, one more... 123+5 QUICK! THINK ABOUT A TOOL AND A COLOR! Scroll further to the bottom... A bit more... You have just thought about a red hammer, haven't you???? If this is not the case, you are among 2% of people who have a "different" if not "abnormal" mind. 98% of the folks would answer a "red hammer" while doing this exercise. -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From rfv at entelix.com Fri Mar 12 19:05:51 2004 From: rfv at entelix.com (rfv at entelix.com) Date: Fri, 12 Mar 2004 19:05:51 -0600 Subject: [AccessD] Are you part of the 98%? In-Reply-To: <405259D2.80905@verizon.net> Message-ID: <200403130107.i2D176M03427@databaseadvisors.com> Fridge and white! -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Francisco H Tapia Sent: Viernes, 12 de Marzo de 2004 06:46 p.m. To: AccessD; Access-L Subject: [AccessD] Are you part of the 98%? Because it's Friday.... -- -Francisco ------------------- Take the test; it is amazing - Let me know what percentage range you fall into - Test Just follow the instructions as quickly as possible. Do not go to the next calculation before you have finished the previous one. You do not need to write or remember the answers, just do it using your mind. You'll be surprised. Start: How much is: 15+6 3+56 89+2 12+53 75+26 25+52 63+32 I know! Calculations are hard work but it's nearly over... Come on, one more... 123+5 QUICK! THINK ABOUT A TOOL AND A COLOR! Scroll further to the bottom... A bit more... You have just thought about a red hammer, haven't you???? If this is not the case, you are among 2% of people who have a "different" if not "abnormal" mind. 98% of the folks would answer a "red hammer" while doing this exercise. -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From my.lists at verizon.net Fri Mar 12 19:11:21 2004 From: my.lists at verizon.net (Francisco H Tapia) Date: Fri, 12 Mar 2004 17:11:21 -0800 Subject: [AccessD] Are you part of the 98%? In-Reply-To: <249C1CB246997C48BB74963CCD361C1B014A0567@pnlmse28.pnl.gov> References: <249C1CB246997C48BB74963CCD361C1B014A0567@pnlmse28.pnl.gov> Message-ID: <40525FB9.1080105@verizon.net> I'm finding it more rare if people even think of a Red Hammer, I thought Red Rachet. Stoker, Kenneth E wrote: >So I thought of a wrench and green. Must be odd.:-) > >Ken Stoker > >-----Original Message----- >From: Francisco H Tapia [mailto:my.lists at verizon.net] >Sent: Friday, March 12, 2004 4:46 PM >To: AccessD; Access-L >Subject: [AccessD] Are you part of the 98%? > > > >Because it's Friday.... > > > -- -Francisco From jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com Fri Mar 12 19:13:17 2004 From: jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com (John W. Colby) Date: Fri, 12 Mar 2004 20:13:17 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Framework Discussion - Who's following this In-Reply-To: <2F8793082E00D4119A1700B0D0216BF802227967@main2.marlow.com> Message-ID: Drew, I am open to interfaces, assuming that you can present a case for a significant advantage. What do I gain by implements? Other than being able to treat the objects as a custom type (class) rather than an object what have I gained? Am I getting early binding out of this so that Intellisense works? If so can I "get at" all of the class properties, i.e. not just those implemented? IOW, if I say: Set FWObj = New FWComboBox can I then say FWObj.ComboClassSpecificProperty? That would definitely be cool, and powerful. At the moment when I pass an object, I get late binding so I can't really tell if I am getting a valid method, passing valid parameters etc. until I test it out at runtime. Implements and interfaces adds another level of complexity that even I don't understand. My audience here may already be struggling with just figuring out classes and withevents. If I am going to throw in Interfaces and Implements (and learn it myself) it has to be for a darned good reason. John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com Something I'd like to ask, in an earlier post, you were explaining how you were 'linking' your Class objects. Just out of curiousity, why not do something like this: FrameWorkControl Class: Option Compare Database Property Set LinkedObject(objTemp As Object) End Property Public Function CleanUp() End Function Property Get ObjectName() As String End Property Property Get ObjectType() As String End Property FWComboBox Class: Option Compare Database Implements FrameWorkControl Dim WithEvents lnkObject As ComboBox Private Function FrameWorkControl_CleanUp() As Variant Set lnkObject = Nothing End Function Private Property Set FrameWorkControl_LinkedObject(RHS As Object) Set lnkObject = RHS lnkObject.OnClick = "[Event Procedure]" End Property Private Property Get FrameWorkControl_ObjectName() As String FrameWorkControl_ObjectName = lnkObject.Name End Property Private Property Get FrameWorkControl_ObjectType() As String FrameWorkControl_ObjectType = "ComboBox" End Property Private Sub lnkObject_Click() MsgBox lnkObject.Name End Sub FWTextBox Class: Option Compare Database Implements FrameWorkControl Dim WithEvents lnkObject As TextBox Private Function FrameWorkControl_CleanUp() As Variant Set lnkObject = Nothing End Function Private Property Set FrameWorkControl_LinkedObject(RHS As Object) Set lnkObject = RHS lnkObject.OnClick = "[Event Procedure]" End Property Private Property Get FrameWorkControl_ObjectName() As String FrameWorkControl_ObjectName = lnkObject.Name End Property Private Property Get FrameWorkControl_ObjectType() As String FrameWorkControl_ObjectType = "TextBox" End Property Private Sub lnkObject_Click() MsgBox lnkObject.Name End Sub Example Form Code: Dim FrameWorkObjects As Collection Private Sub Form_Load() Dim FWObj As FrameWorkControl Dim ctrl As Control Dim blValidControl As Boolean Set FrameWorkObjects = New Collection For Each ctrl In Me.Controls blValidControl = False If TypeOf ctrl Is TextBox Then Set FWObj = New FWTextBox blValidControl = True End If If TypeOf ctrl Is ComboBox Then Set FWObj = New FWComboBox blValidControl = True End If If blValidControl Then Set FWObj.LinkedObject = ctrl FrameWorkObjects.Add FWObj, FWObj.ObjectName Set FWObj = Nothing End If Next End Sub -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From my.lists at verizon.net Fri Mar 12 19:12:09 2004 From: my.lists at verizon.net (Francisco H Tapia) Date: Fri, 12 Mar 2004 17:12:09 -0800 Subject: [AccessD] Are you part of the 98%? In-Reply-To: <200403130107.i2D176M03427@databaseadvisors.com> References: <200403130107.i2D176M03427@databaseadvisors.com> Message-ID: <40525FE9.5090208@verizon.net> I didn't know that Fridge was a tool... :| rfv at entelix.com wrote: >Fridge and white! > >-----Original Message----- >From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com >[mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Francisco H Tapia >Sent: Viernes, 12 de Marzo de 2004 06:46 p.m. >To: AccessD; Access-L >Subject: [AccessD] Are you part of the 98%? > > >Because it's Friday.... > > > -- -Francisco From BBarabash at TappeConstruction.com Fri Mar 12 19:18:40 2004 From: BBarabash at TappeConstruction.com (Brett Barabash) Date: Fri, 12 Mar 2004 19:18:40 -0600 Subject: [AccessD] Are you part of the 98%? Message-ID: <426071E0B0A6D311B3C0006008B0AB23AFE3F8@TAPPEEXCH01> The first thing that popped into my head was red hammer, then blue hammer. Sort of like the question asked by the bridge troll in Monty Python's Holy Grail.... What's your favorite color? Red, no blue... AAAAAAAUGHHHH!!! -------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- The information in this email may contain confidential information that is legally privileged. The information is only for the use of the intended recipient(s) named above. If you are not the intended recipient(s), you are hereby notified that any disclosure, copying, distribution, or the taking of any action in regard to the content of this fax is strictly prohibited. If transmission is incorrect, unclear, or incomplete, please notify the sender immediately. The authorized recipient(s) of this information is/are prohibited from disclosing this information to any other party and is/are required to destroy the information after its stated need has been fulfilled. Any views expressed in this message are those of the individual sender, except where the sender specifies and with authority, states them to be the views of Tappe Construction Co. This footer also confirms that this email message has been scanned for the presence of computer viruses.Scanning of this message and addition of this footer is performed by SurfControl E-mail Filter software in conjunction with virus detection software. From stuart at lexacorp.com.pg Fri Mar 12 19:19:53 2004 From: stuart at lexacorp.com.pg (Stuart McLachlan) Date: Sat, 13 Mar 2004 11:19:53 +1000 Subject: [AccessD] Are you part of the 98%? In-Reply-To: References: <405259D2.80905@verizon.net> Message-ID: <4052EE59.12179.372B4A@localhost> On 12 Mar 2004 at 19:59, John W. Colby wrote: > That's amazing, but especially so because I thought BLACK hammer. WHY > hammer? I think the most common tool is hammer and we're going with "off > the cuff" or very fast responses, then RED is thought of similarly, "first > color out of your mouth". > 'cos it's designed to annoy you with the repetitive scrollling and arithmetic before you get to the punchline? By the time you get all the way to the bottom, you are seeing red and want to hammer the person that sent it. -- Lexacorp Ltd http://www.lexacorp.com.pg Information Technology Consultancy, Software Development,System Support. From stuart at lexacorp.com.pg Fri Mar 12 19:26:07 2004 From: stuart at lexacorp.com.pg (Stuart McLachlan) Date: Sat, 13 Mar 2004 11:26:07 +1000 Subject: [AccessD] date on HP PCs In-Reply-To: <005b01c40892$b9cddba0$8ac2f63f@Desktop> Message-ID: <4052EFCF.28301.3CE04A@localhost> But not the same set of installed software/OS version to the system where the database was developed. There willl be a reference to something (such as a specific MDAC version) that was on the development machine but not on the HP. On 12 Mar 2004 at 19:29, John Eget wrote: > it is the exact same database on each pc > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "MartyConnelly" > To: "Access Developers discussion and problem solving" > > Sent: Thursday, March 11, 2004 8:09 PM > Subject: Re: [AccessD] date on HP PCs > > > > Probably a missing reference. On the HP's open up the mdb modules > > Tools--> Reference and check for the flagged missing ones. > > You may have something like a specific reference pointer to ADO MDAC 2.5 > > and say you are using WinXP( it will only have ADO 2.7 by default.) > > > > > > > > John Eget wrote: > > > > >I had the oddest thing happen today, My databases do not show =Date(), > but only on the new HPs in work. > > >Has anyone come across this before? > > >John > > > > > > > > > > -- > > Marty Connelly > > Victoria, B.C. > > Canada > > > > > > > > -- > > _______________________________________________ > > AccessD mailing list > > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- Lexacorp Ltd http://www.lexacorp.com.pg Information Technology Consultancy, Software Development,System Support. From stuart at lexacorp.com.pg Fri Mar 12 19:32:26 2004 From: stuart at lexacorp.com.pg (Stuart McLachlan) Date: Sat, 13 Mar 2004 11:32:26 +1000 Subject: [AccessD] Run a report "invisibly" In-Reply-To: <00d001c4085a$62d19e00$0a00a8c0@cx470148a> Message-ID: <4052F14A.7926.42A8B2@localhost> On 12 Mar 2004 at 12:49, Barbara Ryan wrote: > Mark... is the "print to file" option available in Access 97? Sorry, I'm > not familiar with it......Thanks, Barb > > It's an OS thing, not an Access thing. Just set up a new printer (use any driver you want - the Generic/Text one is as good as any) and configure it to use FILE: (Print to File) as it's port. Or better still, you can "Add port" and put in a filename as the port. Then set your report to use that specific printer. If you specify FILE: as the port, you will get a prompt appears asking you to supply a filename. If you set a filename as a port when you set up the printer, the report will be printed to the file without requiring any user action. -- Lexacorp Ltd http://www.lexacorp.com.pg Information Technology Consultancy, Software Development,System Support. From jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com Fri Mar 12 19:34:55 2004 From: jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com (John W. Colby) Date: Fri, 12 Mar 2004 20:34:55 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Are you part of the 98%? In-Reply-To: <4052EE59.12179.372B4A@localhost> Message-ID: rotfl. Entirely likely! John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Stuart McLachlan Sent: Friday, March 12, 2004 8:20 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problemsolving Subject: RE: [AccessD] Are you part of the 98%? On 12 Mar 2004 at 19:59, John W. Colby wrote: > That's amazing, but especially so because I thought BLACK hammer. WHY > hammer? I think the most common tool is hammer and we're going with "off > the cuff" or very fast responses, then RED is thought of similarly, "first > color out of your mouth". > 'cos it's designed to annoy you with the repetitive scrollling and arithmetic before you get to the punchline? By the time you get all the way to the bottom, you are seeing red and want to hammer the person that sent it. -- Lexacorp Ltd http://www.lexacorp.com.pg Information Technology Consultancy, Software Development,System Support. -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From ssharkins at bellsouth.net Fri Mar 12 19:59:07 2004 From: ssharkins at bellsouth.net (Susan Harkins) Date: Fri, 12 Mar 2004 20:59:07 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Are you part of the 98%? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <20040313015903.KLE13717.imf16aec.mail.bellsouth.net@SUSANONE> It would be nice to know if Black is aberrant. ;-) =======Absolutely not -- it represents the unknown. Susan H. From ssharkins at bellsouth.net Fri Mar 12 19:59:07 2004 From: ssharkins at bellsouth.net (Susan Harkins) Date: Fri, 12 Mar 2004 20:59:07 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Are you part of the 98%? In-Reply-To: <405259D2.80905@verizon.net> Message-ID: <20040313015909.KME13717.imf16aec.mail.bellsouth.net@SUSANONE> I hang out here... I don't need a test to tell me I'm abnormal. :) Sorry -- one of the 2%. Susan H. Because it's Friday.... From jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com Fri Mar 12 20:15:50 2004 From: jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com (John W. Colby) Date: Fri, 12 Mar 2004 21:15:50 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Are you part of the 98%? In-Reply-To: <20040313015909.KME13717.imf16aec.mail.bellsouth.net@SUSANONE> Message-ID: >I hang out here... I don't need a test to tell me I'm abnormal. :) rotfl. Yea, it would be interesting to see what percent of these weirdoes fall in the 98%. ;-) John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Susan Harkins Sent: Friday, March 12, 2004 8:59 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: [AccessD] Are you part of the 98%? I hang out here... I don't need a test to tell me I'm abnormal. :) Sorry -- one of the 2%. Susan H. Because it's Friday.... -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From carbonnb at sympatico.ca Fri Mar 12 20:28:04 2004 From: carbonnb at sympatico.ca (Bryan Carbonnell) Date: Fri, 12 Mar 2004 21:28:04 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Are you part of the 98%? In-Reply-To: References: <20040313015909.KME13717.imf16aec.mail.bellsouth.net@SUSANONE> Message-ID: <40522B64.7993.AE5A74@localhost> On 12 Mar 2004 at 21:15, John W. Colby wrote: > rotfl. Yea, it would be interesting to see what percent of these > weirdoes fall in the 98%. HEY!!!!! I resemble that remark!!! I'm one of those 98% weirdos. And Damn proud of it :-) -- Bryan Carbonnell - carbonnb at sympatico.ca We're all here because we're not all there. From jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com Fri Mar 12 20:45:05 2004 From: jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com (John W. Colby) Date: Fri, 12 Mar 2004 21:45:05 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Are you part of the 98%? In-Reply-To: <40522B64.7993.AE5A74@localhost> Message-ID: And we're proud to have you as an AccessD member! John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Bryan Carbonnell Sent: Friday, March 12, 2004 9:28 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problemsolving Subject: RE: [AccessD] Are you part of the 98%? On 12 Mar 2004 at 21:15, John W. Colby wrote: > rotfl. Yea, it would be interesting to see what percent of these > weirdoes fall in the 98%. HEY!!!!! I resemble that remark!!! I'm one of those 98% weirdos. And Damn proud of it :-) -- Bryan Carbonnell - carbonnb at sympatico.ca We're all here because we're not all there. -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From Jeff at OUTBAKTech.com Fri Mar 12 22:00:27 2004 From: Jeff at OUTBAKTech.com (Jeff Barrows) Date: Fri, 12 Mar 2004 22:00:27 -0600 Subject: [AccessD] Are you part of the 98%? Message-ID: <8DA8776D2F418E46A2A464AC6CE6305092C2@outbaksrv1.outbaktech.com> First thing I thought of was a purple saw Jeff Barrows Outbak Technologies, LLC Racine, WI Phone: (262) 634-0653 Mailto: jeff_developer at hotmail.com www.outbaktech.com From jwelz at hotmail.com Fri Mar 12 22:29:39 2004 From: jwelz at hotmail.com (Jürgen Welz) Date: Fri, 12 Mar 2004 21:29:39 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] Are you part of the 98%? Message-ID: Well. Got one out of two. I'm not in the 98 and I'm not really in the 2. I have to decide if I'm in the 0 percent or the 100 percent. Mathematically It's got to be one amongst the multitudes that make up the 100 percent. I guess it's like I always say. My glass is neither half full nor half empty.. my cup runneth over. Ciao J?rgen Welz Edmonton, Alberta jwelz at hotmail.com _________________________________________________________________ Add photos to your messages with MSN Premium. Get 2 months FREE* http://join.msn.com/?pgmarket=en-ca&page=byoa/prem&xAPID=1994&DI=1034&SU=http://hotmail.com/enca&HL=Market_MSNIS_Taglines From jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com Fri Mar 12 22:54:46 2004 From: jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com (John W. Colby) Date: Fri, 12 Mar 2004 23:54:46 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Are you part of the 98%? In-Reply-To: <8DA8776D2F418E46A2A464AC6CE6305092C2@outbaksrv1.outbaktech.com> Message-ID: rotfl. You are strange indeed! John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Jeff Barrows Sent: Friday, March 12, 2004 11:00 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] Are you part of the 98%? First thing I thought of was a purple saw Jeff Barrows Outbak Technologies, LLC Racine, WI Phone: (262) 634-0653 Mailto: jeff_developer at hotmail.com www.outbaktech.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From john at winhaven.net Fri Mar 12 23:08:49 2004 From: john at winhaven.net (John Bartow) Date: Fri, 12 Mar 2004 23:08:49 -0600 Subject: [AccessD] Are you part of the 98%? In-Reply-To: <405259D2.80905@verizon.net> Message-ID: yellow screwdriver I think the fact that I'm working on Friday night at 11PM is much wierder though! ;o) -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Francisco H Tapia Sent: Friday, March 12, 2004 6:46 PM To: AccessD; Access-L Subject: [AccessD] Are you part of the 98%? Because it's Friday.... -- -Francisco ------------------- Take the test; it is amazing - Let me know what percentage range you fall into - Test Just follow the instructions as quickly as possible. Do not go to the next calculation before you have finished the previous one. You do not need to write or remember the answers, just do it using your mind. You'll be surprised. Start: How much is: 15+6 3+56 89+2 12+53 75+26 25+52 63+32 I know! Calculations are hard work but it's nearly over... Come on, one more... 123+5 QUICK! THINK ABOUT A TOOL AND A COLOR! Scroll further to the bottom... A bit more... You have just thought about a red hammer, haven't you???? If this is not the case, you are among 2% of people who have a "different" if not "abnormal" mind. 98% of the folks would answer a "red hammer" while doing this exercise. -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com Fri Mar 12 23:44:25 2004 From: jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com (John W. Colby) Date: Sat, 13 Mar 2004 00:44:25 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Framework Discussion - Dependent Objects Message-ID: The example database and a word document of this email is on my site - www.colbyconsulting.com Click C2DbFW3G, then the hotlink to C2DbFW3G-DemoCtlClassV3.zip. Eventually all of these emails will be cleaned up by DatabaseAdvisors and published in Many-to-Many. The ultimate purpose of a framework is to give you clearly defined places to go to place properties and behaviors for objects that should be available for future projects. Controls are a prime example of this since they have no built-in class and yet we want to extend their functionality. Thus we build classes for each control type so that we can extend the functionality of that control. To this end in this discussion we are going to add some new functionality to the combo class we defined. The new functionality will be dependent object re-query. Dependent object re-query means that we will create a method of selecting objects (classes) that filter their data based on the currently selected data in the control ? in this case a combo. As the user selects new data in the combo, any dependent objects need to be automatically re-queried so that they display filtered data that depends on this combo. This behavior is generally useful and will demonstrate how we expand a framework to add things that we want our framework to do. Dependent Objects Dependent objects are a common occurrence in Access applications. As an example a form has two combos on it, cboCompany and cboEmployees. As the user selects cboCompany, cboEmployees needs to be filtered to only display the employees for the company just selected. Or perhaps a company is selected and only Addresses for that company are displayed in cboAddress. Dependent objects are usually implemented by referring to the filtering object in a field of the query which pulls data for the dependent object. In other words, cboAddress will have something that looks like ?Like form!frmMyForm!cboCompany? in the criteria of the query for cboAddress or cboEmployees. cboAddress is filtered by or dependent on cboCompany. In order to implement this functionality in our framework we could simply add a dependent object collection directly inside of the control class, then add methods to each control class to add objects to that collection, remove them again when the control class closes, and of course a re-query method to iterate through all of the objects in the collection, calling the re-query method of every object. Notice that this implies that every control that can be dependent on another control must have a public re-query method in its class. The dependent object code The code for this would look something like: In the header of each control class (stripped of all error handling for easy reading): Private mcolDepObj As Collection Collection initialization code in each control class? Initialize event Private Sub Class_Initialize() Set mcolDepObj = New Collection End Sub Cleanup code in each control classes Term() function Public Sub Term() Set mcolDepObj = Nothing End Sub And finally public functions (methods) to handle the dependent object specific stuff: Private Function ColEmpty() While mcolDepObj.Count > 0 mcolDepObj.Remove 1 Wend End Function 'Requery every obj in the dependent object collection Public Function Requery() Dim Obj As Variant For Each Obj In mcolDepObj Obj.Requery Next Obj End Function 'Add multiple objects into the collection Public Function DepObjs(ParamArray lDepObjsArr() As Variant) Dim Obj As Variant For Each Obj In lDepObjsArr mcolDepObj.Add Obj, Obj.Name Next Obj End Function 'Add a single object Public Function Add(item As Variant, key As Variant) mcolDepObj.Add item, key Requery End Function 'Remove a single object Public Function Remove(index As Variant) mcolDepObj.Remove index End Function 'get a count of the objects in the collection Public Function Count() Count = mcolDepObj.Count End Function 'get one specific object back out of the collection Public Function item(index As Variant) item = mcolDepObj.item(index) End Function There?s nothing wrong with doing it that way but we are trying to learn to use classes and another way we could implement this is to build a dependent object class. Then we simply add a dependent object class to each control class that needs one. A huge advantage to using a dedicated class for this is that now we put all of that exact same code in one place, in one class, then simply dim a clsDepObj wherever we need it and call the class? methods. We don?t have to go add this stuff to each and every control class that may have dependent objects. Each control class? code Instead of all that code above in each control class, we now have: In each control class? header (stripped of all error handling for easy reading): Private mclsDepObj As clsDepObj Initialization in each control class? Initialize event. Private Sub Class_Initialize() Set mclsDepObj = New clsDepObj End Sub Cleanup in each control class? Term() Public Sub Term() mclsDepObj.Term Set mclsDepObj = Nothing End Sub And a property get to return a handle to the clsDepObj class instance for this control class? instance Public Property Get clsDepObj() As clsDepObj Set clsDepObj = mclsDepObj End Property You have to admit adding a few lines of code to each control class is way cleaner and easier than adding all of that dependent object code to each control class. Not to mention if we want to add some other dependent object functionality to the framework we just do it in one place instead in every control class. 'Requery the control and then requery all dependent objects Public Function Requery() mcbo.Requery mclsDepObj.Requery End Function One thing that we have to remember is to add a re-query method to every control class that will have a dependent object class. Obviously if this class? control has a data source then we need to re-query this control as well as calling the re-query method of the dependent object class. And finally, when the combo AfterUpdate fires we want to re-query all the objects in our new class? dependent object collection. We do that by calling the mclsDepObj?s re-query method. Withevents! You gotta love them! Private Sub mcbo_AfterUpdate() mclsDepObj.Requery End Sub So now that we have this wonderful new class and functionality, how do we tell the framework to use it? The answer to that lies in the form class? initialization which occurs in the form?s Open event. The form?s built-in class I have modified frmPeopleV3 to add two combos in the form header section. cboCompany and cboEmployee respectively contain data for companies and employees of those companies. Thus the form?s code now looks like: Option Compare Database Option Explicit Our custom form class dclsFrm Public fdclsFrm As dclsFrm And the form?s Open event. Private Sub Form_Open(Cancel As Integer) Set fdclsFrm = New dclsFrm fdclsFrm.Init Me, Me With fdclsFrm.colClasses .item("cboCompany").clsDepObj.Add .item("cboEmployee"), cboEmployee.Name .item("cboCompany").clsDepObj.Add fdclsFrm, Me.Name .item("cboCompany").Requery End With End Sub I know this looks very complicated but we will take it one step at a time and show you what we are doing. The set statement and init look very much like before. We are passing in a reference to the form?s built in class (Me) and a reference to the form itself (Me). Unfortunately in the case of the form, Me refers both to the class as well as the physical form so that can be a little odd at times. Set fdclsFrm = New dclsFrm fdclsFrm.Init Me, Me Next we use a with statement to do a partial resolution of dclsFrm to speed up getting at things. With fdclsFrm.colClasses dclsFrm has a property fdclsFrm.colClasses that returns a pointer to the classes collection. Using that we can now refer to that collection?s properties and methods. We use the .item() method to return something from the collection. .item("cboCompany").clsDepObj.Add .item("cboEmployee"), cboEmployee.Name Remember that in dclsFrm we had a control scanner that found all the controls on the form, built a class for each one, and placed a pointer to each control?s class instance in colClasses. Remember also that we used the control?s name as the key or index into the collection. Thus .item("cboCompany") tells the class to return the item in colClasses that was named ?cboCompany, in other words the control class for the control cboCompany. Thus: .item("cboCompany") is a pointer to a combo class and is exactly equivalent to the more verbose: dim ldclsCbo as dclsCbo set dclsCbo = .item(?cboCompany?) Since we are dealing with a pointer to a combo class we can now call any method or property of that class which is what we do with: .item("cboCompany").clsDepObj.Add We are saying ?for the combo company class, call the clsDepObject method which returns a pointer to the dependent object class, and then call that classes add method. Whew! Just remember that the ?period? denotes a method or property of the class, so you just end up referencing classes with properties that return classes with properties that return classes where you finally use a method of that class. fdclsFrm.colClasses.item(?class name?).clsDepObj.Add By the way, you can set a break point on that line of code and step through the code watching the methods of the various classes being called, returning pointers to the next object, which steps into a method of that and returns a pointer to the next object etc. until you finally ?drill down? to the final .Add method. This stuff is FUN! OK, back to the big picture. With fdclsFrm.colClasses .item("cboCompany").clsDepObj.Add .item("cboEmployee"), cboEmployee.Name .item("cboCompany").clsDepObj.Add fdclsFrm, Me.Name .item("cboCompany").Requery End With We have now told the dclsFrm to add something to the clsDepObj. The ?something? is the class for the cboEmployee. .item("cboCompany").clsDepObj.Add .item("cboEmployee"), cboEmployee.Name Likewise I have made the form itself dependent on the cboCompany so we also have to tell the class for cboEmployee that dclsFrm is a dependent object. .item("cboCompany").clsDepObj.Add fdclsFrm, Me.Name And finally, we have to re-query cboCompany so that it requeries all of its dependent objects. .item("cboCompany").Requery And that, as they say, is that. Reference the form?s colClasses, pulling out the class for cboCompany. Using the clsDepObj method of that class to pull the clsDepObj, use that class? Add method to add an object to the dependent object collection. The object added is the class for cboEmployee and the class for the form itself, fdclsFrm. Once we have added these two items to our dependent object class, re-query the whole structure. I know quite well that this stuff can make your eyes cross when you first look at it but believe me it will become second nature once you have worked with classes, methods and properties, and collections for awhile. Summary By adding a new, rather small class with a single collection variable and a handful of public methods, we have built a method of manipulating dependent objects. Once the class exists, it is a simple matter to add a few lines of code to the class of each control that can have dependent objects and by doing so add dependent object handling to any class that needs it. Probably the biggest stretch was decoding the rather obtuse code in the form?s Open method that ?programs? the specific class that has dependent objects, dclsCbo for cboEmployee, thus telling it to place pointers to two objects in its dependent object handling system. Those two objects are the class for cboEmployee and the class for the form itself. The end result is that when the form initially opens it displays no records because there is no company selected and the form is filtered by or dependent on cboEmployee. However once we select an employee, the combo now has something that can be used to filter the form and the cboEmployee. Since cboCompany calls its clsDepObj?s re-query, the form?s class requeries the form, and cboEmployee?s class requeries cboEmployee. By the way, if cboEmployee had been programmed with dependent objects of its own, cboEmployee?s class would have requeried all of its dependent objects and the process just ripples down the chain automagically. Classes are powerful tools that allow us to encapsulate functionality into a single location, hold all of the variables and code needed to implement necessary behaviors, and provide a single place to go to add new related behaviors if necessary. You can pull this dependent object class into your own framework and with relatively little effort add dependent object processing to your own combos and other controls. Dependent object processing is a trivial application, but imagine if the class had dozens of properties and methods! This encapsulation and portability becomes a prime reason to know how to use classes. John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com From accessd at shaw.ca Sat Mar 13 04:40:08 2004 From: accessd at shaw.ca (Jim Lawrence (AccessD)) Date: Sat, 13 Mar 2004 02:40:08 -0800 Subject: [AccessD] Run a report "invisibly" In-Reply-To: <007b01c40848$8e3c4ac0$0a00a8c0@cx470148a> Message-ID: Hi Barbara: Why not schedule the reports for over-night or at off hours...or have the print job re-directed to a back room printer. One of the old computers could be setup for just running a specific set of print jobs. HTH Jim -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Barbara Ryan Sent: Friday, March 12, 2004 7:42 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Run a report "invisibly" Hi, Gustav... I wish it was a joke!!! The report is pretty complex, with 12 subreports. There are hundreds of calculations performed (in the report as well as all the subreports)--- subtotals of 2 or more subreports used in calculations in other subreports, etc. The report also outputs data to a spreadsheet. The data in the report is (almost) exactly what I need to create an export file requested by the client. However, I need to have a separate interface for the export file function. I would like to execute the report "invisibly" --- to get the data I need --- and then just create my export file. Is it possible to "turn off" the default printer (so the report won't print), execute the report in Normal mode, then turn the default printer back on? Any other suggestions? Thanks, Barb ----- Original Message ----- From: "Gustav Brock" To: "Access Developers discussion and problem solving" Sent: Friday, March 12, 2004 8:51 AM Subject: Re: [AccessD] Run a report "invisibly" > Hi Barbara > > Is this a Friday joke? > Running a report invisibly without printing it?? > > Well, if you insist, you must have some action code when opening or > closing the report; pull that off the report and run it separately. > > /gustav > > > > Is there any way to run a report invisibly (i.e., "behind the scenes", without printing it) in Access 97? The only modes available are Preview, Normal, and Design. > > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From tinanfields at torchlake.com Sat Mar 13 06:51:30 2004 From: tinanfields at torchlake.com (Tina Norris Fields) Date: Sat, 13 Mar 2004 07:51:30 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Are you part of the 98%? References: <405259D2.80905@verizon.net> Message-ID: <405303D2.7080007@torchlake.com> screwdriver - green didn't make it into the 98% - that's okay, never have I already know I am weird - my teenaged daughters made that VERY clear Tina Francisco H Tapia wrote: > > Because it's Friday.... > From HollisVJ at pgdp.usec.com Sat Mar 13 06:58:52 2004 From: HollisVJ at pgdp.usec.com (Hollis,Virginia) Date: Sat, 13 Mar 2004 06:58:52 -0600 Subject: [AccessD] Vendor Table Message-ID: <618EB4D6DDCDD3119B0A00508B6FD37A0CB0D2E7@cntexchange.pgdp.usec.com> Would this be correct? tbl_VendorMain VendorID ContactID RequestorID BuyerID TypeID DateRequested tbl_Vendor VendorID Vendor info stuff tbl_Type TypeID Type stuff etc. OR Should tbl_Vendor have CustomerID? -----Original Message----- From: DWUTKA at marlow.com [mailto:DWUTKA at marlow.com] Sent: Friday, March 12, 2004 10:17 AM To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: RE: [AccessD] Vendor Table Sounds like a PO system. The PurchaseOrder table would be the 'tie in'. You would have a PO Number, then a buyerID, VendorID, and your items. Depends on how complex you want to make it, you should probably have a PO Line Items table. Drew -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Hollis,Virginia Sent: Friday, March 12, 2004 9:01 AM To: 'accessd at databaseadvisors.com' Subject: [AccessD] Vendor Table I am starting a new database - that seems fairly standard, but it is my first time with this type.... This database is to track vendor information & requests. I know I need a table with vendor information, one for the buyer, & one for contacts. The problem is I can't think of how to tie them all together, especially the buyer & requestor with the vendor. The buyer completes the form with all the vendor information, regular fields - name, address, terms. I guess my question is what do I put in a Main? table to tie all the information together? It is mostly just a form completed by the buyer and sent to another department for entry into the suppliers database. But the 2nd department wants to track the requests (where I come in). Virginia -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From tinanfields at torchlake.com Sat Mar 13 07:17:04 2004 From: tinanfields at torchlake.com (Tina Norris Fields) Date: Sat, 13 Mar 2004 08:17:04 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Re: question on normalization References: <5.1.0.14.2.20040312110409.02a9f2d8@pop3.highstream.net> Message-ID: <405309D0.80502@torchlake.com> Hurray for the normalization freaks! Robert, I would like to have your zip-code database for the US. I did download some files from the USPS that I can combine into the tables I need, but if you have that already done, it would save me quite a bit of work. Thank you. Tina P.S. I did get the naming conventions zip - although I had to get it out of quarantine at my ISP - seems there have been some viri running around lately masquerading as zips. T Robert L. Stewart wrote: > Welcome fellow freak. ;-) > > Also, you should technically do this in addition: > > tblCounty > > CountyID Autonumber (PK) > CountyName Text(30) Unique Index > > tblCountyRegion > > CountyRegionID Autonumber (PK) > CountyID Long Integer > RegionID Long Integer > > Unique Index CountyID, RegionID > > Change tblPostalCode to > > tblPostalCode > > PostalCodeID AutoNumber (PK) > PostalCode Text(10) > CityID Long Integer > CountyRegionID Long Integer > > Unique index on PostalCode, CityID, CountyRegionID > > That should take care of it. ;-) > > Robert > > P.S. When you look at some of the ISO standards > for this kins of information, it gets very interesting. > > > At 08:46 AM 3/12/2004 -0600, you wrote: > >> Date: Fri, 12 Mar 2004 08:59:27 -0500 >> From: "John Clark" >> Subject: [AccessD] Re: question on normalization >> To: >> Message-ID: >> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII >> >> This is actually what I was looking at--keeping the zips and the towns >> seperated. >> >> Maybe I'm a closet freak myself--hmmph! >> >> John W Clark >> >> >> >>> rl_stewart at highstream.net 3/12/2004 8:42:37 AM >>> >> >> John, >> >> I have a table for the US with all that >> in it. Do you need it? >> >> For the normalization freaks (like me), >> here is a normalized design: >> >> tblPostalCode >> PostalCodeID AutoNumber (PK) >> PostalCode Text(10) >> CityID Long Integer >> RegionID Long Integer >> >> Unique index on PostalCode, CityID, RegionID >> >> tblCity >> CityID Autonumber (PK) >> CityName Text(30) >> >> Unique Index on CityName >> >> tblRegion >> RegionID Autonumber (PK) >> RegionName Text(30) >> CountryCode Text(2) >> >> Unique Index on RegionName, CountryCode >> >> tblCountry >> CountryCode Text(2) (PK) >> CountryName Text(30) >> >> Unique index on CountryName >> >> >> Robert >> >> P.S. The ISO standard is actually Division, if I remember >> correctly for the way I used region here. > > > From jimdettman at earthlink.net Sat Mar 13 07:32:24 2004 From: jimdettman at earthlink.net (Jim Dettman) Date: Sat, 13 Mar 2004 08:32:24 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Framework Discussion - Dependent Objects In-Reply-To: Message-ID: John, What will be interesting to see is by the time you get to a useable framework what performance will be like. BTW great job with all the articles. Haven't had much time lately to go through them in detail, but I've skimmed most and your doing one heck of a job on it. Jim Dettman Online Computer Services of WNY, Inc. (315) 699-3443 jimdettman at earthlink.net -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of John W. Colby Sent: Saturday, March 13, 2004 12:44 AM To: AccessD Subject: [AccessD] Framework Discussion - Dependent Objects The example database and a word document of this email is on my site - www.colbyconsulting.com Click C2DbFW3G, then the hotlink to C2DbFW3G-DemoCtlClassV3.zip. Eventually all of these emails will be cleaned up by DatabaseAdvisors and published in Many-to-Many. The ultimate purpose of a framework is to give you clearly defined places to go to place properties and behaviors for objects that should be available for future projects. Controls are a prime example of this since they have no built-in class and yet we want to extend their functionality. Thus we build classes for each control type so that we can extend the functionality of that control. To this end in this discussion we are going to add some new functionality to the combo class we defined. The new functionality will be dependent object re-query. Dependent object re-query means that we will create a method of selecting objects (classes) that filter their data based on the currently selected data in the control ? in this case a combo. As the user selects new data in the combo, any dependent objects need to be automatically re-queried so that they display filtered data that depends on this combo. This behavior is generally useful and will demonstrate how we expand a framework to add things that we want our framework to do. Dependent Objects Dependent objects are a common occurrence in Access applications. As an example a form has two combos on it, cboCompany and cboEmployees. As the user selects cboCompany, cboEmployees needs to be filtered to only display the employees for the company just selected. Or perhaps a company is selected and only Addresses for that company are displayed in cboAddress. Dependent objects are usually implemented by referring to the filtering object in a field of the query which pulls data for the dependent object. In other words, cboAddress will have something that looks like ?Like form!frmMyForm!cboCompany? in the criteria of the query for cboAddress or cboEmployees. cboAddress is filtered by or dependent on cboCompany. In order to implement this functionality in our framework we could simply add a dependent object collection directly inside of the control class, then add methods to each control class to add objects to that collection, remove them again when the control class closes, and of course a re-query method to iterate through all of the objects in the collection, calling the re-query method of every object. Notice that this implies that every control that can be dependent on another control must have a public re-query method in its class. The dependent object code The code for this would look something like: In the header of each control class (stripped of all error handling for easy reading): Private mcolDepObj As Collection Collection initialization code in each control class? Initialize event Private Sub Class_Initialize() Set mcolDepObj = New Collection End Sub Cleanup code in each control classes Term() function Public Sub Term() Set mcolDepObj = Nothing End Sub And finally public functions (methods) to handle the dependent object specific stuff: Private Function ColEmpty() While mcolDepObj.Count > 0 mcolDepObj.Remove 1 Wend End Function 'Requery every obj in the dependent object collection Public Function Requery() Dim Obj As Variant For Each Obj In mcolDepObj Obj.Requery Next Obj End Function 'Add multiple objects into the collection Public Function DepObjs(ParamArray lDepObjsArr() As Variant) Dim Obj As Variant For Each Obj In lDepObjsArr mcolDepObj.Add Obj, Obj.Name Next Obj End Function 'Add a single object Public Function Add(item As Variant, key As Variant) mcolDepObj.Add item, key Requery End Function 'Remove a single object Public Function Remove(index As Variant) mcolDepObj.Remove index End Function 'get a count of the objects in the collection Public Function Count() Count = mcolDepObj.Count End Function 'get one specific object back out of the collection Public Function item(index As Variant) item = mcolDepObj.item(index) End Function There?s nothing wrong with doing it that way but we are trying to learn to use classes and another way we could implement this is to build a dependent object class. Then we simply add a dependent object class to each control class that needs one. A huge advantage to using a dedicated class for this is that now we put all of that exact same code in one place, in one class, then simply dim a clsDepObj wherever we need it and call the class? methods. We don?t have to go add this stuff to each and every control class that may have dependent objects. Each control class? code Instead of all that code above in each control class, we now have: In each control class? header (stripped of all error handling for easy reading): Private mclsDepObj As clsDepObj Initialization in each control class? Initialize event. Private Sub Class_Initialize() Set mclsDepObj = New clsDepObj End Sub Cleanup in each control class? Term() Public Sub Term() mclsDepObj.Term Set mclsDepObj = Nothing End Sub And a property get to return a handle to the clsDepObj class instance for this control class? instance Public Property Get clsDepObj() As clsDepObj Set clsDepObj = mclsDepObj End Property You have to admit adding a few lines of code to each control class is way cleaner and easier than adding all of that dependent object code to each control class. Not to mention if we want to add some other dependent object functionality to the framework we just do it in one place instead in every control class. 'Requery the control and then requery all dependent objects Public Function Requery() mcbo.Requery mclsDepObj.Requery End Function One thing that we have to remember is to add a re-query method to every control class that will have a dependent object class. Obviously if this class? control has a data source then we need to re-query this control as well as calling the re-query method of the dependent object class. And finally, when the combo AfterUpdate fires we want to re-query all the objects in our new class? dependent object collection. We do that by calling the mclsDepObj?s re-query method. Withevents! You gotta love them! Private Sub mcbo_AfterUpdate() mclsDepObj.Requery End Sub So now that we have this wonderful new class and functionality, how do we tell the framework to use it? The answer to that lies in the form class? initialization which occurs in the form?s Open event. The form?s built-in class I have modified frmPeopleV3 to add two combos in the form header section. cboCompany and cboEmployee respectively contain data for companies and employees of those companies. Thus the form?s code now looks like: Option Compare Database Option Explicit Our custom form class dclsFrm Public fdclsFrm As dclsFrm And the form?s Open event. Private Sub Form_Open(Cancel As Integer) Set fdclsFrm = New dclsFrm fdclsFrm.Init Me, Me With fdclsFrm.colClasses .item("cboCompany").clsDepObj.Add .item("cboEmployee"), cboEmployee.Name .item("cboCompany").clsDepObj.Add fdclsFrm, Me.Name .item("cboCompany").Requery End With End Sub I know this looks very complicated but we will take it one step at a time and show you what we are doing. The set statement and init look very much like before. We are passing in a reference to the form?s built in class (Me) and a reference to the form itself (Me). Unfortunately in the case of the form, Me refers both to the class as well as the physical form so that can be a little odd at times. Set fdclsFrm = New dclsFrm fdclsFrm.Init Me, Me Next we use a with statement to do a partial resolution of dclsFrm to speed up getting at things. With fdclsFrm.colClasses dclsFrm has a property fdclsFrm.colClasses that returns a pointer to the classes collection. Using that we can now refer to that collection?s properties and methods. We use the .item() method to return something from the collection. .item("cboCompany").clsDepObj.Add .item("cboEmployee"), cboEmployee.Name Remember that in dclsFrm we had a control scanner that found all the controls on the form, built a class for each one, and placed a pointer to each control?s class instance in colClasses. Remember also that we used the control?s name as the key or index into the collection. Thus .item("cboCompany") tells the class to return the item in colClasses that was named ?cboCompany, in other words the control class for the control cboCompany. Thus: .item("cboCompany") is a pointer to a combo class and is exactly equivalent to the more verbose: dim ldclsCbo as dclsCbo set dclsCbo = .item(?cboCompany?) Since we are dealing with a pointer to a combo class we can now call any method or property of that class which is what we do with: .item("cboCompany").clsDepObj.Add We are saying ?for the combo company class, call the clsDepObject method which returns a pointer to the dependent object class, and then call that classes add method. Whew! Just remember that the ?period? denotes a method or property of the class, so you just end up referencing classes with properties that return classes with properties that return classes where you finally use a method of that class. fdclsFrm.colClasses.item(?class name?).clsDepObj.Add By the way, you can set a break point on that line of code and step through the code watching the methods of the various classes being called, returning pointers to the next object, which steps into a method of that and returns a pointer to the next object etc. until you finally ?drill down? to the final .Add method. This stuff is FUN! OK, back to the big picture. With fdclsFrm.colClasses .item("cboCompany").clsDepObj.Add .item("cboEmployee"), cboEmployee.Name .item("cboCompany").clsDepObj.Add fdclsFrm, Me.Name .item("cboCompany").Requery End With We have now told the dclsFrm to add something to the clsDepObj. The ?something? is the class for the cboEmployee. .item("cboCompany").clsDepObj.Add .item("cboEmployee"), cboEmployee.Name Likewise I have made the form itself dependent on the cboCompany so we also have to tell the class for cboEmployee that dclsFrm is a dependent object. .item("cboCompany").clsDepObj.Add fdclsFrm, Me.Name And finally, we have to re-query cboCompany so that it requeries all of its dependent objects. .item("cboCompany").Requery And that, as they say, is that. Reference the form?s colClasses, pulling out the class for cboCompany. Using the clsDepObj method of that class to pull the clsDepObj, use that class? Add method to add an object to the dependent object collection. The object added is the class for cboEmployee and the class for the form itself, fdclsFrm. Once we have added these two items to our dependent object class, re-query the whole structure. I know quite well that this stuff can make your eyes cross when you first look at it but believe me it will become second nature once you have worked with classes, methods and properties, and collections for awhile. Summary By adding a new, rather small class with a single collection variable and a handful of public methods, we have built a method of manipulating dependent objects. Once the class exists, it is a simple matter to add a few lines of code to the class of each control that can have dependent objects and by doing so add dependent object handling to any class that needs it. Probably the biggest stretch was decoding the rather obtuse code in the form?s Open method that ?programs? the specific class that has dependent objects, dclsCbo for cboEmployee, thus telling it to place pointers to two objects in its dependent object handling system. Those two objects are the class for cboEmployee and the class for the form itself. The end result is that when the form initially opens it displays no records because there is no company selected and the form is filtered by or dependent on cboEmployee. However once we select an employee, the combo now has something that can be used to filter the form and the cboEmployee. Since cboCompany calls its clsDepObj?s re-query, the form?s class requeries the form, and cboEmployee?s class requeries cboEmployee. By the way, if cboEmployee had been programmed with dependent objects of its own, cboEmployee?s class would have requeried all of its dependent objects and the process just ripples down the chain automagically. Classes are powerful tools that allow us to encapsulate functionality into a single location, hold all of the variables and code needed to implement necessary behaviors, and provide a single place to go to add new related behaviors if necessary. You can pull this dependent object class into your own framework and with relatively little effort add dependent object processing to your own combos and other controls. Dependent object processing is a trivial application, but imagine if the class had dozens of properties and methods! This encapsulation and portability becomes a prime reason to know how to use classes. John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From tinanfields at torchlake.com Sat Mar 13 07:45:01 2004 From: tinanfields at torchlake.com (Tina Norris Fields) Date: Sat, 13 Mar 2004 08:45:01 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] question on normalization References: Message-ID: <4053105D.8060108@torchlake.com> Okay, I just wonder what happened to the original intent of Zip codes - wasn't that to uniquely identify delivery locations? That certainly is what I remember - unique codes to make it possible for automatic and correct mail sorting by machines. Hmmmmmmmmmmmm Tina Charlotte Foust wrote: >Unfortunately, while zip codes are supposed to be unique, they may be >shared among several small towns or a town may have multiple zip codes. >Some buildings even have unique zip codes, but generally zip codes >belong to post offices. I would say they were not a good candidate for >a primary key in dealing with addresses. I've worked with postal >databases and seen some of the "duplicate" zips, where several small >towns share a post office and a zip code. A further complication is the >+four extension. > >Charlotte Foust > >-----Original Message----- >From: John Clark [mailto:John.Clark at niagaracounty.com] >Sent: Friday, March 12, 2004 7:03 AM >To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com >Subject: RE: [AccessD] question on normalization > > >But, in my case, it would be OK then? I will not have an issue with them >being unique. > >JW Clark > > > >>>>ssharkins at bellsouth.net 3/12/2004 9:55:22 AM >>> >>>> >>>> > > >As a sidebar--sort of--why can't the zip itself be a primary key? > >========We're told that ZIP codes aren't unique -- most are, but there >those few... I've not encountered it myself, but that's what we're told. >;) > >Susan H. > > > From jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com Sat Mar 13 08:18:00 2004 From: jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com (John W. Colby) Date: Sat, 13 Mar 2004 09:18:00 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Framework Discussion - Dependent Objects In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Jim, >What will be interesting to see is by the time you get to a useable framework what performance will be like. I have a usable framework already, in fact I am looking at my old to find subjects for these articles. The performance is simply not an issue. As I mentioned once before I did some timings way back with my old framework. I had a very complex form with literally close to a hundred controls loading classes. I timed the control scanner and what I discovered is that with an old Pentium (100 MHz? 150 MHz?) and 128 mb of ram the scanner tool under 1/2 millisecond to load each class instance. Thus a form loading 100 classes took 50 milliseconds to load the classes. When a bound form is loading combos and the form's data, the form's data load time thoroughly swamps the picture. Would you notice an additional 1/50th of a second for the framework to do it's thing? Visual Basic is a reasonably fast interpreter and the time to execute programs usually just doesn't enter the picture in a database application where queries and recordset manipulations are slowing things down. And of course our computers get faster and faster. John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Jim Dettman Sent: Saturday, March 13, 2004 8:32 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] Framework Discussion - Dependent Objects John, What will be interesting to see is by the time you get to a useable framework what performance will be like. BTW great job with all the articles. Haven't had much time lately to go through them in detail, but I've skimmed most and your doing one heck of a job on it. Jim Dettman Online Computer Services of WNY, Inc. (315) 699-3443 jimdettman at earthlink.net -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of John W. Colby Sent: Saturday, March 13, 2004 12:44 AM To: AccessD Subject: [AccessD] Framework Discussion - Dependent Objects The example database and a word document of this email is on my site - www.colbyconsulting.com Click C2DbFW3G, then the hotlink to C2DbFW3G-DemoCtlClassV3.zip. Eventually all of these emails will be cleaned up by DatabaseAdvisors and published in Many-to-Many. The ultimate purpose of a framework is to give you clearly defined places to go to place properties and behaviors for objects that should be available for future projects. Controls are a prime example of this since they have no built-in class and yet we want to extend their functionality. Thus we build classes for each control type so that we can extend the functionality of that control. To this end in this discussion we are going to add some new functionality to the combo class we defined. The new functionality will be dependent object re-query. Dependent object re-query means that we will create a method of selecting objects (classes) that filter their data based on the currently selected data in the control ? in this case a combo. As the user selects new data in the combo, any dependent objects need to be automatically re-queried so that they display filtered data that depends on this combo. This behavior is generally useful and will demonstrate how we expand a framework to add things that we want our framework to do. Dependent Objects Dependent objects are a common occurrence in Access applications. As an example a form has two combos on it, cboCompany and cboEmployees. As the user selects cboCompany, cboEmployees needs to be filtered to only display the employees for the company just selected. Or perhaps a company is selected and only Addresses for that company are displayed in cboAddress. Dependent objects are usually implemented by referring to the filtering object in a field of the query which pulls data for the dependent object. In other words, cboAddress will have something that looks like ?Like form!frmMyForm!cboCompany? in the criteria of the query for cboAddress or cboEmployees. cboAddress is filtered by or dependent on cboCompany. In order to implement this functionality in our framework we could simply add a dependent object collection directly inside of the control class, then add methods to each control class to add objects to that collection, remove them again when the control class closes, and of course a re-query method to iterate through all of the objects in the collection, calling the re-query method of every object. Notice that this implies that every control that can be dependent on another control must have a public re-query method in its class. The dependent object code The code for this would look something like: In the header of each control class (stripped of all error handling for easy reading): Private mcolDepObj As Collection Collection initialization code in each control class? Initialize event Private Sub Class_Initialize() Set mcolDepObj = New Collection End Sub Cleanup code in each control classes Term() function Public Sub Term() Set mcolDepObj = Nothing End Sub And finally public functions (methods) to handle the dependent object specific stuff: Private Function ColEmpty() While mcolDepObj.Count > 0 mcolDepObj.Remove 1 Wend End Function 'Requery every obj in the dependent object collection Public Function Requery() Dim Obj As Variant For Each Obj In mcolDepObj Obj.Requery Next Obj End Function 'Add multiple objects into the collection Public Function DepObjs(ParamArray lDepObjsArr() As Variant) Dim Obj As Variant For Each Obj In lDepObjsArr mcolDepObj.Add Obj, Obj.Name Next Obj End Function 'Add a single object Public Function Add(item As Variant, key As Variant) mcolDepObj.Add item, key Requery End Function 'Remove a single object Public Function Remove(index As Variant) mcolDepObj.Remove index End Function 'get a count of the objects in the collection Public Function Count() Count = mcolDepObj.Count End Function 'get one specific object back out of the collection Public Function item(index As Variant) item = mcolDepObj.item(index) End Function There?s nothing wrong with doing it that way but we are trying to learn to use classes and another way we could implement this is to build a dependent object class. Then we simply add a dependent object class to each control class that needs one. A huge advantage to using a dedicated class for this is that now we put all of that exact same code in one place, in one class, then simply dim a clsDepObj wherever we need it and call the class? methods. We don?t have to go add this stuff to each and every control class that may have dependent objects. Each control class? code Instead of all that code above in each control class, we now have: In each control class? header (stripped of all error handling for easy reading): Private mclsDepObj As clsDepObj Initialization in each control class? Initialize event. Private Sub Class_Initialize() Set mclsDepObj = New clsDepObj End Sub Cleanup in each control class? Term() Public Sub Term() mclsDepObj.Term Set mclsDepObj = Nothing End Sub And a property get to return a handle to the clsDepObj class instance for this control class? instance Public Property Get clsDepObj() As clsDepObj Set clsDepObj = mclsDepObj End Property You have to admit adding a few lines of code to each control class is way cleaner and easier than adding all of that dependent object code to each control class. Not to mention if we want to add some other dependent object functionality to the framework we just do it in one place instead in every control class. 'Requery the control and then requery all dependent objects Public Function Requery() mcbo.Requery mclsDepObj.Requery End Function One thing that we have to remember is to add a re-query method to every control class that will have a dependent object class. Obviously if this class? control has a data source then we need to re-query this control as well as calling the re-query method of the dependent object class. And finally, when the combo AfterUpdate fires we want to re-query all the objects in our new class? dependent object collection. We do that by calling the mclsDepObj?s re-query method. Withevents! You gotta love them! Private Sub mcbo_AfterUpdate() mclsDepObj.Requery End Sub So now that we have this wonderful new class and functionality, how do we tell the framework to use it? The answer to that lies in the form class? initialization which occurs in the form?s Open event. The form?s built-in class I have modified frmPeopleV3 to add two combos in the form header section. cboCompany and cboEmployee respectively contain data for companies and employees of those companies. Thus the form?s code now looks like: Option Compare Database Option Explicit Our custom form class dclsFrm Public fdclsFrm As dclsFrm And the form?s Open event. Private Sub Form_Open(Cancel As Integer) Set fdclsFrm = New dclsFrm fdclsFrm.Init Me, Me With fdclsFrm.colClasses .item("cboCompany").clsDepObj.Add .item("cboEmployee"), cboEmployee.Name .item("cboCompany").clsDepObj.Add fdclsFrm, Me.Name .item("cboCompany").Requery End With End Sub I know this looks very complicated but we will take it one step at a time and show you what we are doing. The set statement and init look very much like before. We are passing in a reference to the form?s built in class (Me) and a reference to the form itself (Me). Unfortunately in the case of the form, Me refers both to the class as well as the physical form so that can be a little odd at times. Set fdclsFrm = New dclsFrm fdclsFrm.Init Me, Me Next we use a with statement to do a partial resolution of dclsFrm to speed up getting at things. With fdclsFrm.colClasses dclsFrm has a property fdclsFrm.colClasses that returns a pointer to the classes collection. Using that we can now refer to that collection?s properties and methods. We use the .item() method to return something from the collection. .item("cboCompany").clsDepObj.Add .item("cboEmployee"), cboEmployee.Name Remember that in dclsFrm we had a control scanner that found all the controls on the form, built a class for each one, and placed a pointer to each control?s class instance in colClasses. Remember also that we used the control?s name as the key or index into the collection. Thus .item("cboCompany") tells the class to return the item in colClasses that was named ?cboCompany, in other words the control class for the control cboCompany. Thus: .item("cboCompany") is a pointer to a combo class and is exactly equivalent to the more verbose: dim ldclsCbo as dclsCbo set dclsCbo = .item(?cboCompany?) Since we are dealing with a pointer to a combo class we can now call any method or property of that class which is what we do with: .item("cboCompany").clsDepObj.Add We are saying ?for the combo company class, call the clsDepObject method which returns a pointer to the dependent object class, and then call that classes add method. Whew! Just remember that the ?period? denotes a method or property of the class, so you just end up referencing classes with properties that return classes with properties that return classes where you finally use a method of that class. fdclsFrm.colClasses.item(?class name?).clsDepObj.Add By the way, you can set a break point on that line of code and step through the code watching the methods of the various classes being called, returning pointers to the next object, which steps into a method of that and returns a pointer to the next object etc. until you finally ?drill down? to the final .Add method. This stuff is FUN! OK, back to the big picture. With fdclsFrm.colClasses .item("cboCompany").clsDepObj.Add .item("cboEmployee"), cboEmployee.Name .item("cboCompany").clsDepObj.Add fdclsFrm, Me.Name .item("cboCompany").Requery End With We have now told the dclsFrm to add something to the clsDepObj. The ?something? is the class for the cboEmployee. .item("cboCompany").clsDepObj.Add .item("cboEmployee"), cboEmployee.Name Likewise I have made the form itself dependent on the cboCompany so we also have to tell the class for cboEmployee that dclsFrm is a dependent object. .item("cboCompany").clsDepObj.Add fdclsFrm, Me.Name And finally, we have to re-query cboCompany so that it requeries all of its dependent objects. .item("cboCompany").Requery And that, as they say, is that. Reference the form?s colClasses, pulling out the class for cboCompany. Using the clsDepObj method of that class to pull the clsDepObj, use that class? Add method to add an object to the dependent object collection. The object added is the class for cboEmployee and the class for the form itself, fdclsFrm. Once we have added these two items to our dependent object class, re-query the whole structure. I know quite well that this stuff can make your eyes cross when you first look at it but believe me it will become second nature once you have worked with classes, methods and properties, and collections for awhile. Summary By adding a new, rather small class with a single collection variable and a handful of public methods, we have built a method of manipulating dependent objects. Once the class exists, it is a simple matter to add a few lines of code to the class of each control that can have dependent objects and by doing so add dependent object handling to any class that needs it. Probably the biggest stretch was decoding the rather obtuse code in the form?s Open method that ?programs? the specific class that has dependent objects, dclsCbo for cboEmployee, thus telling it to place pointers to two objects in its dependent object handling system. Those two objects are the class for cboEmployee and the class for the form itself. The end result is that when the form initially opens it displays no records because there is no company selected and the form is filtered by or dependent on cboEmployee. However once we select an employee, the combo now has something that can be used to filter the form and the cboEmployee. Since cboCompany calls its clsDepObj?s re-query, the form?s class requeries the form, and cboEmployee?s class requeries cboEmployee. By the way, if cboEmployee had been programmed with dependent objects of its own, cboEmployee?s class would have requeried all of its dependent objects and the process just ripples down the chain automagically. Classes are powerful tools that allow us to encapsulate functionality into a single location, hold all of the variables and code needed to implement necessary behaviors, and provide a single place to go to add new related behaviors if necessary. You can pull this dependent object class into your own framework and with relatively little effort add dependent object processing to your own combos and other controls. Dependent object processing is a trivial application, but imagine if the class had dozens of properties and methods! This encapsulation and portability becomes a prime reason to know how to use classes. John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From fahooper at trapo.com Sat Mar 13 09:12:28 2004 From: fahooper at trapo.com (Fred Hooper) Date: Sat, 13 Mar 2004 10:12:28 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] RE: Detect form height In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <000501c4090d$99cf9700$f0bffea9@fred> I want to thank the person who answered my question. I apologize for not thanking you immediately. I was excited to receive a quick, perfect answer and implemented your suggestion, deleting your email without thinking. Fred Hooper From HollisVJ at pgdp.usec.com Sat Mar 13 09:19:00 2004 From: HollisVJ at pgdp.usec.com (Hollis,Virginia) Date: Sat, 13 Mar 2004 09:19:00 -0600 Subject: [AccessD] Set up tables - Please Help Message-ID: <618EB4D6DDCDD3119B0A00508B6FD37A0CB0D2E9@cntexchange.pgdp.usec.com> Can someone please help me - I am having the hardest time setting up my tables for this new vendor program. I have tried making a main vendor table but when I try to put the data all together, my form is blank and you can't add any records. I am so frustrated with this whole thing. I keep telling myself it shouldn't be this hard! A request has a buyer, requestor, and a Vendor. A Vendor has a contact, type of business, and an account type. Sounds so easy.... well, every way I try I get ZERO data. Virginia From jwelz at hotmail.com Sat Mar 13 10:04:16 2004 From: jwelz at hotmail.com (Jürgen Welz) Date: Sat, 13 Mar 2004 09:04:16 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] Combo on Continuous Form Message-ID: I just rewrote that sample I sent you in order to work with the textbox displaying a fleld in its recordsource rather than using a dlookup. The recordsource had to be revised to join the the Contact table in order to make the contact name field available. The result looks a bit smoother because it's faster. It is how I talked about doing it on the list because that's how I thought I had done it but it turns out I didn't have the sense to do it a more efficient way back when I first wrote this approach. It's an easy change to make but I'd be happy to rezip the file and sent it to you again with the modification. This time it will be an A2k file (what I have at home) with the unnecessary references removed. Let me know if you want me to send the revised version. Ciao J?rgen Welz Edmonton, Alberta jwelz at hotmail.com _________________________________________________________________ MSN Premium includes powerful parental controls and get 2 months FREE* http://join.msn.com/?pgmarket=en-ca&page=byoa/prem&xAPID=1994&DI=1034&SU=http://hotmail.com/enca&HL=Market_MSNIS_Taglines From ssharkins at bellsouth.net Sat Mar 13 10:04:36 2004 From: ssharkins at bellsouth.net (Susan Harkins) Date: Sat, 13 Mar 2004 11:04:36 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Set up tables - Please Help In-Reply-To: <618EB4D6DDCDD3119B0A00508B6FD37A0CB0D2E9@cntexchange.pgdp.usec.com> Message-ID: <20040313160451.HCCL13717.imf16aec.mail.bellsouth.net@SUSANONE> Virginia, is the data basically the same for everyone? What kind of data are you storing for each buyer, requestor, and vendor because you could just dump them all in one table and then flag each as a buyer, requestor or vendor using some kind of id value. That's one way to go. Or, you could have a separate table for each -- and you should if the data is significantly different for each to avoid all those blanks where data doesn't apply to one type. So, do you have a separate table for the following as well: contracts, business type, and account type? The two latter sound like classic lookup tables. Susan H. Can someone please help me - I am having the hardest time setting up my tables for this new vendor program. I have tried making a main vendor table but when I try to put the data all together, my form is blank and you can't add any records. I am so frustrated with this whole thing. I keep telling myself it shouldn't be this hard! A request has a buyer, requestor, and a Vendor. A Vendor has a contact, type of business, and an account type. Sounds so easy.... well, every way I try I get ZERO data. Virginia -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From HollisVJ at pgdp.usec.com Sat Mar 13 10:29:05 2004 From: HollisVJ at pgdp.usec.com (Hollis,Virginia) Date: Sat, 13 Mar 2004 10:29:05 -0600 Subject: [AccessD] Set up tables - Please Help Message-ID: <618EB4D6DDCDD3119B0A00508B6FD37A0CB0D2EC@cntexchange.pgdp.usec.com> I have one table for each - tbl_Buyer, tbl_Contacts, tbl_Requestor, tbl_TypeBusiness, tbl_Vendor, tbl_VendorMain, tbl_Accounts. Tables buyer, vendor contacts, requestor store just the typical name, phone number, etc. tbl_TypeBusiness is one that confuses me - I need it linked to tbl_Vendor so when you select the vendor the different types are selected. A vendor can be any combination of 15 different types. When I set up tbl_VendorMain with: RequestID TypeID VendorID ContactID BuyerID RequestorID DateRequested. Then join everything to this table, I get data on my form. But if I divide it out the way I thought it should be, and join tbl_Buyer & tbl_Requestor to tbl_VendorMain. Then tbl_VendorMain to tbl_Vendor by RequestID & tbl_Contacts to tbl_Vendor by VendorID I don't get any data in the form. To say the least - I have made a mess of it all. Virginia -----Original Message----- From: Susan Harkins [mailto:ssharkins at bellsouth.net] Sent: Saturday, March 13, 2004 10:05 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: [AccessD] Set up tables - Please Help Virginia, is the data basically the same for everyone? What kind of data are you storing for each buyer, requestor, and vendor because you could just dump them all in one table and then flag each as a buyer, requestor or vendor using some kind of id value. That's one way to go. Or, you could have a separate table for each -- and you should if the data is significantly different for each to avoid all those blanks where data doesn't apply to one type. So, do you have a separate table for the following as well: contracts, business type, and account type? The two latter sound like classic lookup tables. Susan H. Can someone please help me - I am having the hardest time setting up my tables for this new vendor program. I have tried making a main vendor table but when I try to put the data all together, my form is blank and you can't add any records. I am so frustrated with this whole thing. I keep telling myself it shouldn't be this hard! A request has a buyer, requestor, and a Vendor. A Vendor has a contact, type of business, and an account type. Sounds so easy.... well, every way I try I get ZERO data. Virginia -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From ssharkins at bellsouth.net Sat Mar 13 10:38:07 2004 From: ssharkins at bellsouth.net (Susan Harkins) Date: Sat, 13 Mar 2004 11:38:07 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Set up tables - Please Help In-Reply-To: <618EB4D6DDCDD3119B0A00508B6FD37A0CB0D2EC@cntexchange.pgdp.usec.com> Message-ID: <20040313163803.GGEN18468.imf24aec.mail.bellsouth.net@SUSANONE> What's the difference between tbl_Vendor and tbl_VendorMain? Susan H. I have one table for each - tbl_Buyer, tbl_Contacts, tbl_Requestor, tbl_TypeBusiness, tbl_Vendor, tbl_VendorMain, tbl_Accounts. Tables buyer, vendor contacts, requestor store just the typical name, phone number, etc. From HollisVJ at pgdp.usec.com Sat Mar 13 10:45:43 2004 From: HollisVJ at pgdp.usec.com (Hollis,Virginia) Date: Sat, 13 Mar 2004 10:45:43 -0600 Subject: [AccessD] Set up tables - Please Help Message-ID: <618EB4D6DDCDD3119B0A00508B6FD37A0CB0D2ED@cntexchange.pgdp.usec.com> tbl_Vendor contains all the data for the vendor; address, company name, etc. tbl_VendorMain could really be named tbl_RequestMain. tbl_VendorMain is where I thought I would store the combination of the data - VendorID, ContactID, BuyerID, RequestorID, DateRequested. -----Original Message----- From: Susan Harkins [mailto:ssharkins at bellsouth.net] Sent: Saturday, March 13, 2004 10:38 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: [AccessD] Set up tables - Please Help What's the difference between tbl_Vendor and tbl_VendorMain? Susan H. I have one table for each - tbl_Buyer, tbl_Contacts, tbl_Requestor, tbl_TypeBusiness, tbl_Vendor, tbl_VendorMain, tbl_Accounts. Tables buyer, vendor contacts, requestor store just the typical name, phone number, etc. -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From ssharkins at bellsouth.net Sat Mar 13 10:46:58 2004 From: ssharkins at bellsouth.net (Susan Harkins) Date: Sat, 13 Mar 2004 11:46:58 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Set up tables - Please Help In-Reply-To: <618EB4D6DDCDD3119B0A00508B6FD37A0CB0D2EC@cntexchange.pgdp.usec.com> Message-ID: <20040313164657.GIVM18468.imf24aec.mail.bellsouth.net@SUSANONE> Virginia -- I'm assuming all those ID fields are foreign keys. Can you send a shot of your Relationships window? Should tbl_VendorMain really be a query? I'm not sure what new data you're actually storing -- looks like just that DateRequested. Susan H. -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Hollis,Virginia Sent: Saturday, March 13, 2004 11:29 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: [AccessD] Set up tables - Please Help I have one table for each - tbl_Buyer, tbl_Contacts, tbl_Requestor, tbl_TypeBusiness, tbl_Vendor, tbl_VendorMain, tbl_Accounts. Tables buyer, vendor contacts, requestor store just the typical name, phone number, etc. tbl_TypeBusiness is one that confuses me - I need it linked to tbl_Vendor so when you select the vendor the different types are selected. A vendor can be any combination of 15 different types. When I set up tbl_VendorMain with: RequestID TypeID VendorID ContactID BuyerID RequestorID DateRequested. Then join everything to this table, I get data on my form. But if I divide it out the way I thought it should be, and join tbl_Buyer & tbl_Requestor to tbl_VendorMain. Then tbl_VendorMain to tbl_Vendor by RequestID & tbl_Contacts to tbl_Vendor by VendorID I don't get any data in the form. To say the least - I have made a mess of it all. Virginia -----Original Message----- From: Susan Harkins [mailto:ssharkins at bellsouth.net] Sent: Saturday, March 13, 2004 10:05 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: [AccessD] Set up tables - Please Help Virginia, is the data basically the same for everyone? What kind of data are you storing for each buyer, requestor, and vendor because you could just dump them all in one table and then flag each as a buyer, requestor or vendor using some kind of id value. That's one way to go. Or, you could have a separate table for each -- and you should if the data is significantly different for each to avoid all those blanks where data doesn't apply to one type. So, do you have a separate table for the following as well: contracts, business type, and account type? The two latter sound like classic lookup tables. Susan H. Can someone please help me - I am having the hardest time setting up my tables for this new vendor program. I have tried making a main vendor table but when I try to put the data all together, my form is blank and you can't add any records. I am so frustrated with this whole thing. I keep telling myself it shouldn't be this hard! A request has a buyer, requestor, and a Vendor. A Vendor has a contact, type of business, and an account type. Sounds so easy.... well, every way I try I get ZERO data. Virginia -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From jwelz at hotmail.com Sat Mar 13 10:53:04 2004 From: jwelz at hotmail.com (Jürgen Welz) Date: Sat, 13 Mar 2004 09:53:04 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] Combo on Continuous Form Message-ID: No Archive Oops. This was supposed to be off list. J?rgen Welz jwelz at hotmail.com >From: "J?rgen Welz" > >I just rewrote that sample I sent you in order to work with the textbox >displaying a fleld in its recordsource rather than using a dlookup. The >recordsource had to be revised to join the the Contact table in order to >make the contact name field available. The result looks a bit smoother >because it's faster. It is how I talked about doing it on the list because >that's how I thought I had done it but it turns out I didn't have the sense >to do it a more efficient way back when I first wrote this approach. It's >an easy change to make but I'd be happy to rezip the file and sent it to >you again with the modification. This time it will be an A2k file (what I >have at home) with the unnecessary references removed. Let me know if you >want me to send the revised version. > > > >Ciao >J?rgen Welz >Edmonton, Alberta >jwelz at hotmail.com _________________________________________________________________ http://join.msn.com/?pgmarket=en-ca&page=byoa/prem&xAPID=1994&DI=1034&SU=http://hotmail.com/enca&HL=Market_MSNIS_Taglines From HollisVJ at pgdp.usec.com Sat Mar 13 10:56:54 2004 From: HollisVJ at pgdp.usec.com (Hollis,Virginia) Date: Sat, 13 Mar 2004 10:56:54 -0600 Subject: [AccessD] Set up tables - Please Help Message-ID: <618EB4D6DDCDD3119B0A00508B6FD37A0CB0D2EE@cntexchange.pgdp.usec.com> Ok, I will send off line so it doesn't take up room & attachments on the list. -----Original Message----- From: Susan Harkins [mailto:ssharkins at bellsouth.net] Sent: Saturday, March 13, 2004 10:47 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: [AccessD] Set up tables - Please Help Virginia -- I'm assuming all those ID fields are foreign keys. Can you send a shot of your Relationships window? Should tbl_VendorMain really be a query? I'm not sure what new data you're actually storing -- looks like just that DateRequested. Susan H. -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Hollis,Virginia Sent: Saturday, March 13, 2004 11:29 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: [AccessD] Set up tables - Please Help I have one table for each - tbl_Buyer, tbl_Contacts, tbl_Requestor, tbl_TypeBusiness, tbl_Vendor, tbl_VendorMain, tbl_Accounts. Tables buyer, vendor contacts, requestor store just the typical name, phone number, etc. tbl_TypeBusiness is one that confuses me - I need it linked to tbl_Vendor so when you select the vendor the different types are selected. A vendor can be any combination of 15 different types. When I set up tbl_VendorMain with: RequestID TypeID VendorID ContactID BuyerID RequestorID DateRequested. Then join everything to this table, I get data on my form. But if I divide it out the way I thought it should be, and join tbl_Buyer & tbl_Requestor to tbl_VendorMain. Then tbl_VendorMain to tbl_Vendor by RequestID & tbl_Contacts to tbl_Vendor by VendorID I don't get any data in the form. To say the least - I have made a mess of it all. Virginia -----Original Message----- From: Susan Harkins [mailto:ssharkins at bellsouth.net] Sent: Saturday, March 13, 2004 10:05 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: [AccessD] Set up tables - Please Help Virginia, is the data basically the same for everyone? What kind of data are you storing for each buyer, requestor, and vendor because you could just dump them all in one table and then flag each as a buyer, requestor or vendor using some kind of id value. That's one way to go. Or, you could have a separate table for each -- and you should if the data is significantly different for each to avoid all those blanks where data doesn't apply to one type. So, do you have a separate table for the following as well: contracts, business type, and account type? The two latter sound like classic lookup tables. Susan H. Can someone please help me - I am having the hardest time setting up my tables for this new vendor program. I have tried making a main vendor table but when I try to put the data all together, my form is blank and you can't add any records. I am so frustrated with this whole thing. I keep telling myself it shouldn't be this hard! A request has a buyer, requestor, and a Vendor. A Vendor has a contact, type of business, and an account type. Sounds so easy.... well, every way I try I get ZERO data. Virginia -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From ssharkins at bellsouth.net Sat Mar 13 11:02:37 2004 From: ssharkins at bellsouth.net (Susan Harkins) Date: Sat, 13 Mar 2004 12:02:37 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Set up tables - Please Help In-Reply-To: <618EB4D6DDCDD3119B0A00508B6FD37A0CB0D2ED@cntexchange.pgdp.usec.com> Message-ID: <20040313170233.EVAJ17649.imf25aec.mail.bellsouth.net@SUSANONE> By "store the combination of the data" are you saying that the data is already stored in other tables and you're just pulling it into a new table? Could DateRequested by stored in tbl_Request? Is there a tbl_Request? Susan H. tbl_Vendor contains all the data for the vendor; address, company name, etc. tbl_VendorMain could really be named tbl_RequestMain. tbl_VendorMain is where I thought I would store the combination of the data - VendorID, ContactID, BuyerID, RequestorID, DateRequested. -----Original Message----- From: Susan Harkins [mailto:ssharkins at bellsouth.net] Sent: Saturday, March 13, 2004 10:38 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: [AccessD] Set up tables - Please Help What's the difference between tbl_Vendor and tbl_VendorMain? Susan H. I have one table for each - tbl_Buyer, tbl_Contacts, tbl_Requestor, tbl_TypeBusiness, tbl_Vendor, tbl_VendorMain, tbl_Accounts. Tables buyer, vendor contacts, requestor store just the typical name, phone number, etc. -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From adtp at touchtelindia.net Sat Mar 13 11:01:22 2004 From: adtp at touchtelindia.net (A.D.Tejpal) Date: Sat, 13 Mar 2004 22:31:22 +0530 Subject: [AccessD] Combo on Continuous Form References: Message-ID: <002e01c4091d$0caf1980$0a1865cb@winxp> Jurgen, I would be glad to have a copy. Thanks in advance. Regards, A.D.Tejpal -------------- ----- Original Message ----- From: J?rgen Welz To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Sent: Saturday, March 13, 2004 21:34 Subject: RE: [AccessD] Combo on Continuous Form I just rewrote that sample I sent you in order to work with the textbox displaying a fleld in its recordsource rather than using a dlookup. The recordsource had to be revised to join the the Contact table in order to make the contact name field available. The result looks a bit smoother because it's faster. It is how I talked about doing it on the list because that's how I thought I had done it but it turns out I didn't have the sense to do it a more efficient way back when I first wrote this approach. It's an easy change to make but I'd be happy to rezip the file and sent it to you again with the modification. This time it will be an A2k file (what I have at home) with the unnecessary references removed. Let me know if you want me to send the revised version. Ciao J?rgen Welz Edmonton, Alberta jwelz at hotmail.com From artful at rogers.com Sat Mar 13 14:44:13 2004 From: artful at rogers.com (Arthur Fuller) Date: Sat, 13 Mar 2004 12:44:13 -0800 Subject: [AccessD] ParamArray problem In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <009d01c4093b$f68a0f60$6501a8c0@rock> First of all, why on earth would you want to pass a class? I'm a little dim but can't imagine a circumstance where that would prove useful. Even in the factory design pattern, you don't pass an actual class. While pondering this, I thought for a moment that one approach might be to create a collection. One cool thing about collections is that the members need have almost nothing in common. I was thinking about this as a way around the tight coupling of the dependent objects class that JC was proposing. I didn't try it, JC, but could that approach work? You could have a collection of dependent objects, with one "parent" and as many "children" as depend on that parent. None of the controls would need to know the name of any other. Just a thought.... Arthur -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of John W. Colby Sent: Thursday, March 11, 2004 5:14 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] ParamArray problem Sorry, meant to say: >Indeed you CAN'T dim the array as specific class types AFAICT. If you look up ParamArrays in help it says that you can type the array as any of the built-in types including objects, but not custom types such as classes. John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of John W. Colby Sent: Thursday, March 11, 2004 7:17 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] ParamArray problem >Haven't looked into the Paramarray question as I've always passed >arrays of strong types or of variants. In this case the array will be passing in objects, i.e. classes, but the class instances can be a combo class, a text class, a list class etc. Since each is a different class, I pass them as objects. Indeed you dim the array as specific class types AFAICT. John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of J?rgen Welz Sent: Thursday, March 11, 2004 1:05 AM To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: RE: [AccessD] ParamArray problem In .NET, if you pass an object ByVal, it is still passed ByRef. No error or notification. It just changes it. Haven't looked into the Paramarray question as I've always passed arrays of strong types or of variants. Ciao J?rgen Welz Edmonton, Alberta jwelz at hotmail.com >From: bruce_bruen at mlc.com.au > > > > > > >"for each next" to iterate the array and found something >in an "empty" array." > >Now that does sound strange. > >The VB help for .NET certainly says that FOREACH should not execute on >a paramarray with .length=0 However, prior to .NET all paramarrays were >passed as byrefs (hence my comment on them being heap pointers) in >.NET they are always byvals. > >Looks like there may be a situation in the VBA where the pointer is >initialised to a "random" heap pointer under some circumstances - that >would be bloody great hole! > >have fun >B > > > > "John W. Colby" > > > > > > >I also seem to remember that passing objects in paramarrays is a nono > >you >can only pass value items (???) > >Help says objects can be passed, or at least the array can be declared >as type object. > >And I was using a "for each next" to iterate the array and found >something in an "empty" array. > >John W. Colby >www.ColbyConsulting.com > >-----Original Message----- >From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com >[mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of >bruce_bruen at mlc.com.au >Sent: Wednesday, March 10, 2004 11:58 PM >To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving >Subject: Re: [AccessD] ParamArray problem > > > > > > >John, > >What you've written it looks right, bu I must ask how do you know there >is "something" in the ParamArray? I would not expect it to be equal to >a null, it is (I can remember which) actually a stack or heap pointer. >I also seem to remember that passing objects in paramarrays is a nono >you can only pass value items (???) , but its been months since I've >VBA'd so to speak so I could be wrong on that. > > >...meanwhile back to the C# > >hth >Bruce > > > > "John W. Colby" > > com> cc: > Sent by: Subject: [AccessD] >ParamArray problem > accessd-bounces at databasea > dvisors.com > > > 11/03/2004 15:43 > Please respond to Access > Developers discussion and > problem solving > > > > > > >I am doing an init() method of a class that looks like: > >Public Sub Init(ByRef robjParent As Object, ParamArray lDepObjsArr() As >Variant) > >where robjParent = a pointer to the parent class (ME) > >and ParamArray lDepObjsArr() As Variant MAY BE an array of dependent >object classes but specifically at the moment isn't being passed >anything. I.e. the calling function looks like > >MyClass.Init me > >I am passing in a pointer to self in the first parameter and nothing at >all for the array. > >Since it is an array that can contain variable number of objects I >expected it to allow this. However when I get inside the init() the >lDepObjsArr has something in it. That something is NOT a class, and I >can't debug.print the value... > >What the heck is going on here? Can I not do this (not pass anything >to a paramarray? > >John W. Colby >www.ColbyConsulting.com _________________________________________________________________ STOP MORE SPAM with the MSN Premium and get 2 months FREE* http://join.msn.com/?pgmarket=en-ca&page=byoa/prem&xAPID=1994&DI=1034&SU =htt p://hotmail.com/enca&HL=Market_MSNIS_Taglines -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com Sat Mar 13 12:31:18 2004 From: jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com (John W. Colby) Date: Sat, 13 Mar 2004 13:31:18 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] ParamArray problem In-Reply-To: <009d01c4093b$f68a0f60$6501a8c0@rock> Message-ID: Arthur, In the end you never pass objects, only pointers to objects. Only the smaller data types such as integers, floats etc can actually be "passed by value", everything else is passed by reference, i.e. a pointer to the object. Let's back up a moment. Did you read the last issue of my framework discussion (which in itself is a misnomer since no one is really responding in a technical manner). The form class - dclsFrm runs a control scanner where it iterates the controls collection of the form, instantiating class for each control found. A POINTER to each class instance is saved in the form's collection. So... in the case we are discussing, the form now "knows about" (for the sake of argument) 30 controls of which 3 are combos. Every one of these controls has an associated class loaded and (pointers) stored in the collection in the form class. Now, after running that scanner the developer needs to "inform" one combo that 3 other objects (combos, lists, subforms etc) are dependent on it. Thus a ParamArray. With one call I can pass in a pointer to all three dependent objects. The dependent class takes the array, pulls the pointer to the classes that I passed in, and loads them into its own collection. Not that class' Requery method is called, the class can call the requery method of each item in that collection. BTW, I am actually doing this in the example code I posted on my site for the last lecture. Load the frmPeopleV3 and notice that the form loads no data. Select a company and notice that the data set for the form changes, likewise the dataset for the cboEmployee. Both of these objects are dependent on the cboCompany. Look in the form's class, particularly OnOpen. That code is all there is to telling one cbo that other objects depend on it. As you can see, I was never proposing "tight coupling" of control classes. In fact I have to guess that I am actually implementing exactly what you are envisioning with the collection of dependent objects. The only difference is that I have moved the collection and all of the code out into a dependent object class. John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Arthur Fuller Sent: Saturday, March 13, 2004 3:44 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: [AccessD] ParamArray problem First of all, why on earth would you want to pass a class? I'm a little dim but can't imagine a circumstance where that would prove useful. Even in the factory design pattern, you don't pass an actual class. While pondering this, I thought for a moment that one approach might be to create a collection. One cool thing about collections is that the members need have almost nothing in common. I was thinking about this as a way around the tight coupling of the dependent objects class that JC was proposing. I didn't try it, JC, but could that approach work? You could have a collection of dependent objects, with one "parent" and as many "children" as depend on that parent. None of the controls would need to know the name of any other. Just a thought.... Arthur -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of John W. Colby Sent: Thursday, March 11, 2004 5:14 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] ParamArray problem Sorry, meant to say: >Indeed you CAN'T dim the array as specific class types AFAICT. If you look up ParamArrays in help it says that you can type the array as any of the built-in types including objects, but not custom types such as classes. John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com From Subscriptions at servicexp.com Sat Mar 13 14:34:57 2004 From: Subscriptions at servicexp.com (Robert Gracie) Date: Sat, 13 Mar 2004 15:34:57 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Framework Discussion - Questions.. In-Reply-To: Message-ID: John, I have been messing around with your last db today, and I'm trying to stay with this. I have two questions/problems.. Objective/Question 1: How would you add a "dynamic sentence case" system that is specific to certain controls. For instance, I have a several forms, each form can have up to 45 text box and combos used to enter/display data. There are 6 different "types" of information stored. One type would be "Model and Serial Numbers", Another type would be Address..etc. Each requiring a different sentence case. Which is user selectable in the program settings for each of these 6 types. Currently I'm using a procedure, which among other things passes an integer for the "case type", along with the text from the control. Something like the below is placed on the OnExit event on each of the control I have programmed to be "case controlled" Example of Old Method: If bolMCaseY = True And Not IsNull(Me.Address1) = True Then Me![Address1] = ProperManager(Me![Address1], iMCaseChoice) End If I can't seem to figure out how to "instruct" the framework which controls are to be handled and which Case to use. I would love to get rid of all those procedure stubs in CBF. Objective/Question 2: I'm trying to add an error system to the framework. Basically I want to implement an error class that will extend the current err object with Logging, SMTP error reporting, etc.. Unless I'm doing something wrong, you can't dim the err object WithEvents, so that's out. I'm able to get the system to work in the form class directly, but that's it. I would like to pass the error control to the form passed into the form collection (and maybe into the control collection, and handle the errors there, but I simply keep running into dead ends.... I'm not even sure this can be done, or should be done. I think it would make for MUCH less coding though.... I'm sure I'm going about this all wrong.....:-( Option Compare Database Option Explicit Public fdclsFrm As dclsFrm Private Err As clsErrorSystem Private Sub Form_Open(Cancel As Integer) Set fdclsFrm = New dclsFrm Set Err = New clsErrorSystem Err.Init Me fdclsFrm.Init Me, Me With fdclsFrm.colClasses .item("cboCompany").clsDepObj.Add .item("cboEmployee"), cboEmployee.Name .item("cboCompany").clsDepObj.Add fdclsFrm, Me.Name .item("cboCompany").Requery End With End Sub Private Sub cmdClose_Click() Dim lng As Long On Error GoTo HandleErr Me.Caption = "some text" lng = "Sdf" ' causes an error 'DoCmd.Close ExitHere: Exit Sub HandleErr: Select Case Err.Number Case Else MsgBox Err.BuildError("frmpeopleV3.CmdClose") End Select End Sub Robert Gracie www.servicexp.com From jimdettman at earthlink.net Sat Mar 13 16:38:24 2004 From: jimdettman at earthlink.net (Jim Dettman) Date: Sat, 13 Mar 2004 17:38:24 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Framework Discussion - Dependent Objects In-Reply-To: Message-ID: John, <> "Useable" was probably a poor choice of words on my part. I was really thinking in terms of features. I slid into "useable" in the sense that by the time you add everything that everyone might want, you've got everything except the kitchen sink. << Would you notice an additional 1/50th of a second for the framework to do it's thing?>> I only mention it because as you get further down the road and into composite classes, there gets to be a design decision in regards to how a framework should be structured for what offers. The out come of that can have a large impact on performance. This is one of the hot button issues with VFP frameworks, which you know are quite a bit farther down the framework road. Considering that VFP is a true compile and it's an issue there, I don't see how it could not be an issue at some point with VBA. Jim (315) 699-3443 jimdettman at earthlink.net -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of John W. Colby Sent: Saturday, March 13, 2004 9:18 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] Framework Discussion - Dependent Objects Jim, >What will be interesting to see is by the time you get to a useable framework what performance will be like. I have a usable framework already, in fact I am looking at my old to find subjects for these articles. The performance is simply not an issue. As I mentioned once before I did some timings way back with my old framework. I had a very complex form with literally close to a hundred controls loading classes. I timed the control scanner and what I discovered is that with an old Pentium (100 MHz? 150 MHz?) and 128 mb of ram the scanner tool under 1/2 millisecond to load each class instance. Thus a form loading 100 classes took 50 milliseconds to load the classes. When a bound form is loading combos and the form's data, the form's data load time thoroughly swamps the picture. Would you notice an additional 1/50th of a second for the framework to do it's thing? Visual Basic is a reasonably fast interpreter and the time to execute programs usually just doesn't enter the picture in a database application where queries and recordset manipulations are slowing things down. And of course our computers get faster and faster. John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Jim Dettman Sent: Saturday, March 13, 2004 8:32 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] Framework Discussion - Dependent Objects John, What will be interesting to see is by the time you get to a useable framework what performance will be like. BTW great job with all the articles. Haven't had much time lately to go through them in detail, but I've skimmed most and your doing one heck of a job on it. Jim Dettman Online Computer Services of WNY, Inc. (315) 699-3443 jimdettman at earthlink.net -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of John W. Colby Sent: Saturday, March 13, 2004 12:44 AM To: AccessD Subject: [AccessD] Framework Discussion - Dependent Objects The example database and a word document of this email is on my site - www.colbyconsulting.com Click C2DbFW3G, then the hotlink to C2DbFW3G-DemoCtlClassV3.zip. Eventually all of these emails will be cleaned up by DatabaseAdvisors and published in Many-to-Many. The ultimate purpose of a framework is to give you clearly defined places to go to place properties and behaviors for objects that should be available for future projects. Controls are a prime example of this since they have no built-in class and yet we want to extend their functionality. Thus we build classes for each control type so that we can extend the functionality of that control. To this end in this discussion we are going to add some new functionality to the combo class we defined. The new functionality will be dependent object re-query. Dependent object re-query means that we will create a method of selecting objects (classes) that filter their data based on the currently selected data in the control ? in this case a combo. As the user selects new data in the combo, any dependent objects need to be automatically re-queried so that they display filtered data that depends on this combo. This behavior is generally useful and will demonstrate how we expand a framework to add things that we want our framework to do. Dependent Objects Dependent objects are a common occurrence in Access applications. As an example a form has two combos on it, cboCompany and cboEmployees. As the user selects cboCompany, cboEmployees needs to be filtered to only display the employees for the company just selected. Or perhaps a company is selected and only Addresses for that company are displayed in cboAddress. Dependent objects are usually implemented by referring to the filtering object in a field of the query which pulls data for the dependent object. In other words, cboAddress will have something that looks like ?Like form!frmMyForm!cboCompany? in the criteria of the query for cboAddress or cboEmployees. cboAddress is filtered by or dependent on cboCompany. In order to implement this functionality in our framework we could simply add a dependent object collection directly inside of the control class, then add methods to each control class to add objects to that collection, remove them again when the control class closes, and of course a re-query method to iterate through all of the objects in the collection, calling the re-query method of every object. Notice that this implies that every control that can be dependent on another control must have a public re-query method in its class. The dependent object code The code for this would look something like: In the header of each control class (stripped of all error handling for easy reading): Private mcolDepObj As Collection Collection initialization code in each control class? Initialize event Private Sub Class_Initialize() Set mcolDepObj = New Collection End Sub Cleanup code in each control classes Term() function Public Sub Term() Set mcolDepObj = Nothing End Sub And finally public functions (methods) to handle the dependent object specific stuff: Private Function ColEmpty() While mcolDepObj.Count > 0 mcolDepObj.Remove 1 Wend End Function 'Requery every obj in the dependent object collection Public Function Requery() Dim Obj As Variant For Each Obj In mcolDepObj Obj.Requery Next Obj End Function 'Add multiple objects into the collection Public Function DepObjs(ParamArray lDepObjsArr() As Variant) Dim Obj As Variant For Each Obj In lDepObjsArr mcolDepObj.Add Obj, Obj.Name Next Obj End Function 'Add a single object Public Function Add(item As Variant, key As Variant) mcolDepObj.Add item, key Requery End Function 'Remove a single object Public Function Remove(index As Variant) mcolDepObj.Remove index End Function 'get a count of the objects in the collection Public Function Count() Count = mcolDepObj.Count End Function 'get one specific object back out of the collection Public Function item(index As Variant) item = mcolDepObj.item(index) End Function There?s nothing wrong with doing it that way but we are trying to learn to use classes and another way we could implement this is to build a dependent object class. Then we simply add a dependent object class to each control class that needs one. A huge advantage to using a dedicated class for this is that now we put all of that exact same code in one place, in one class, then simply dim a clsDepObj wherever we need it and call the class? methods. We don?t have to go add this stuff to each and every control class that may have dependent objects. Each control class? code Instead of all that code above in each control class, we now have: In each control class? header (stripped of all error handling for easy reading): Private mclsDepObj As clsDepObj Initialization in each control class? Initialize event. Private Sub Class_Initialize() Set mclsDepObj = New clsDepObj End Sub Cleanup in each control class? Term() Public Sub Term() mclsDepObj.Term Set mclsDepObj = Nothing End Sub And a property get to return a handle to the clsDepObj class instance for this control class? instance Public Property Get clsDepObj() As clsDepObj Set clsDepObj = mclsDepObj End Property You have to admit adding a few lines of code to each control class is way cleaner and easier than adding all of that dependent object code to each control class. Not to mention if we want to add some other dependent object functionality to the framework we just do it in one place instead in every control class. 'Requery the control and then requery all dependent objects Public Function Requery() mcbo.Requery mclsDepObj.Requery End Function One thing that we have to remember is to add a re-query method to every control class that will have a dependent object class. Obviously if this class? control has a data source then we need to re-query this control as well as calling the re-query method of the dependent object class. And finally, when the combo AfterUpdate fires we want to re-query all the objects in our new class? dependent object collection. We do that by calling the mclsDepObj?s re-query method. Withevents! You gotta love them! Private Sub mcbo_AfterUpdate() mclsDepObj.Requery End Sub So now that we have this wonderful new class and functionality, how do we tell the framework to use it? The answer to that lies in the form class? initialization which occurs in the form?s Open event. The form?s built-in class I have modified frmPeopleV3 to add two combos in the form header section. cboCompany and cboEmployee respectively contain data for companies and employees of those companies. Thus the form?s code now looks like: Option Compare Database Option Explicit Our custom form class dclsFrm Public fdclsFrm As dclsFrm And the form?s Open event. Private Sub Form_Open(Cancel As Integer) Set fdclsFrm = New dclsFrm fdclsFrm.Init Me, Me With fdclsFrm.colClasses .item("cboCompany").clsDepObj.Add .item("cboEmployee"), cboEmployee.Name .item("cboCompany").clsDepObj.Add fdclsFrm, Me.Name .item("cboCompany").Requery End With End Sub I know this looks very complicated but we will take it one step at a time and show you what we are doing. The set statement and init look very much like before. We are passing in a reference to the form?s built in class (Me) and a reference to the form itself (Me). Unfortunately in the case of the form, Me refers both to the class as well as the physical form so that can be a little odd at times. Set fdclsFrm = New dclsFrm fdclsFrm.Init Me, Me Next we use a with statement to do a partial resolution of dclsFrm to speed up getting at things. With fdclsFrm.colClasses dclsFrm has a property fdclsFrm.colClasses that returns a pointer to the classes collection. Using that we can now refer to that collection?s properties and methods. We use the .item() method to return something from the collection. .item("cboCompany").clsDepObj.Add .item("cboEmployee"), cboEmployee.Name Remember that in dclsFrm we had a control scanner that found all the controls on the form, built a class for each one, and placed a pointer to each control?s class instance in colClasses. Remember also that we used the control?s name as the key or index into the collection. Thus .item("cboCompany") tells the class to return the item in colClasses that was named ?cboCompany, in other words the control class for the control cboCompany. Thus: .item("cboCompany") is a pointer to a combo class and is exactly equivalent to the more verbose: dim ldclsCbo as dclsCbo set dclsCbo = .item(?cboCompany?) Since we are dealing with a pointer to a combo class we can now call any method or property of that class which is what we do with: .item("cboCompany").clsDepObj.Add We are saying ?for the combo company class, call the clsDepObject method which returns a pointer to the dependent object class, and then call that classes add method. Whew! Just remember that the ?period? denotes a method or property of the class, so you just end up referencing classes with properties that return classes with properties that return classes where you finally use a method of that class. fdclsFrm.colClasses.item(?class name?).clsDepObj.Add By the way, you can set a break point on that line of code and step through the code watching the methods of the various classes being called, returning pointers to the next object, which steps into a method of that and returns a pointer to the next object etc. until you finally ?drill down? to the final .Add method. This stuff is FUN! OK, back to the big picture. With fdclsFrm.colClasses .item("cboCompany").clsDepObj.Add .item("cboEmployee"), cboEmployee.Name .item("cboCompany").clsDepObj.Add fdclsFrm, Me.Name .item("cboCompany").Requery End With We have now told the dclsFrm to add something to the clsDepObj. The ?something? is the class for the cboEmployee. .item("cboCompany").clsDepObj.Add .item("cboEmployee"), cboEmployee.Name Likewise I have made the form itself dependent on the cboCompany so we also have to tell the class for cboEmployee that dclsFrm is a dependent object. .item("cboCompany").clsDepObj.Add fdclsFrm, Me.Name And finally, we have to re-query cboCompany so that it requeries all of its dependent objects. .item("cboCompany").Requery And that, as they say, is that. Reference the form?s colClasses, pulling out the class for cboCompany. Using the clsDepObj method of that class to pull the clsDepObj, use that class? Add method to add an object to the dependent object collection. The object added is the class for cboEmployee and the class for the form itself, fdclsFrm. Once we have added these two items to our dependent object class, re-query the whole structure. I know quite well that this stuff can make your eyes cross when you first look at it but believe me it will become second nature once you have worked with classes, methods and properties, and collections for awhile. Summary By adding a new, rather small class with a single collection variable and a handful of public methods, we have built a method of manipulating dependent objects. Once the class exists, it is a simple matter to add a few lines of code to the class of each control that can have dependent objects and by doing so add dependent object handling to any class that needs it. Probably the biggest stretch was decoding the rather obtuse code in the form?s Open method that ?programs? the specific class that has dependent objects, dclsCbo for cboEmployee, thus telling it to place pointers to two objects in its dependent object handling system. Those two objects are the class for cboEmployee and the class for the form itself. The end result is that when the form initially opens it displays no records because there is no company selected and the form is filtered by or dependent on cboEmployee. However once we select an employee, the combo now has something that can be used to filter the form and the cboEmployee. Since cboCompany calls its clsDepObj?s re-query, the form?s class requeries the form, and cboEmployee?s class requeries cboEmployee. By the way, if cboEmployee had been programmed with dependent objects of its own, cboEmployee?s class would have requeried all of its dependent objects and the process just ripples down the chain automagically. Classes are powerful tools that allow us to encapsulate functionality into a single location, hold all of the variables and code needed to implement necessary behaviors, and provide a single place to go to add new related behaviors if necessary. You can pull this dependent object class into your own framework and with relatively little effort add dependent object processing to your own combos and other controls. Dependent object processing is a trivial application, but imagine if the class had dozens of properties and methods! This encapsulation and portability becomes a prime reason to know how to use classes. John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com Sat Mar 13 18:35:17 2004 From: jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com (John W. Colby) Date: Sat, 13 Mar 2004 19:35:17 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Framework Discussion - Questions.. In-Reply-To: Message-ID: >Objective/Question 1: How would you add a "dynamic sentence case" system that is specific to certain controls. For instance, I have a several forms, each form can have up to 45 text box and combos used to enter/display data. There are 6 different "types" of information stored. One type would be "Model and Serial Numbers", Another type would be Address..etc. Each requiring a different sentence case. Which is user selectable in the program settings for each of these 6 types. This could be handled at least two different ways (using class methodology) and a third way using the existing function. Which is "the best" will never be agreed upon in a room full of developers but in general you should be analyzing the complexity of the system and if there are objects such as recordsets, collections or other objects (in the module that does the proper case) that need initializing. 1) Take all of the code that currently exists in a module for this proper case widget and turn it into a class. Dim a variable in the header of the text box class ONLY to hold an Integer ProperCaseType and another to hold a pointer to the class (assuming that no other control type will be used for free form data entry). In the text box class, add a method that is passed in an Integer that tells THIS class instance that it needs to do the proper casing and what "type" it will be performing. In the class, as that value is passed in, initialize the propercase class and store a pointer to it in the variable in the text box header. Also store that ProperCaseType integer in its variable in the text box class header. Now in the OnExit event of the text box (in the text box class event sink of course - WithEvents), if the ProperCaseType integer is > 0 then call the Propercase function passing the value of the text box and returning the value back into the text box. That's the general idea anyway. Which event is up to you but the concept is that you have a ProperCaseClass which you only load if you (the developer) passes an integer value to a method of some specific text box class instance. Now that text box class instance will propercase its data. 2) If the ProperCase code is simple (unlikely but possible) the next way would be to simply add all of that code into the text box class directly. Again, if the developer passes an integer ProperCase type value into a text box class method, then the text box will use one of its events to pass the value entered by the user to the ProperCase code and place the returning value back to the text box. 3) And finally, just leave the ProperCase code out in a module somewhere and call that code from the class. Everything else the same, integer ProperCaseType passed to the specific text box class instance(s) that should perform ProperCase behavior, but call the function out in the module rather than inside the class or in a dedicated class. Which is the "best". Again ask any 10 developers on this list and you will get answers all over the place and possible even other solutions. I tend to say that if the code is particularly complex it should be in it's own class. If it has to instantiate recordsets, run queries or other stuff then it DEFINITELY should be in it's own class. If the code is simple, then it should probably just be embedded directly in the text box class. If the code will also be called from a query or the likes then it should (perhaps ALSO) be left out in a module. However even here if it is complex and particularly if it has to open recordsets and stuff, I tend to make it a class, instantiate it in the framework's base class and write a wrapper function. As you start to use classes you will develop your own sense of when and why to use classes. Generally I would build a dedicated class because then it could be easily "hooked in" to the framework at several different levels. If you are using a "commercial" framework (with source of course) you could have your tied in without having to extensively modify the thing which would make upgrading difficult. Classes are very nice for "encapsulation" of all the code and variables required, initializing everything in Init() and cleaning itself up in Term(). Notice that from a framework perspective, it doesn't matter which of the three methods you use, you will still hook it in to the text box class such that you just call a method passing in that ProperCaseType integer and the class takes over and just does it. Notice too that it isn't "specific to certain controls" at all. Any control (of that type - text in this case) "knows how" to "proper case" and it's just a matter of "turning it on" by passing in a ProperCaseType to the specific text box class instances that need to use this functionality! THAT is what a framework is really all about. Behaviors are NEVER "specific to certain controls" they are instead "turned on for certain controls". John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Robert Gracie Sent: Saturday, March 13, 2004 3:35 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] Framework Discussion - Questions.. John, I have been messing around with your last db today, and I'm trying to stay with this. I have two questions/problems.. Objective/Question 1: How would you add a "dynamic sentence case" system that is specific to certain controls. For instance, I have a several forms, each form can have up to 45 text box and combos used to enter/display data. There are 6 different "types" of information stored. One type would be "Model and Serial Numbers", Another type would be Address..etc. Each requiring a different sentence case. Which is user selectable in the program settings for each of these 6 types. Currently I'm using a procedure, which among other things passes an integer for the "case type", along with the text from the control. Something like the below is placed on the OnExit event on each of the control I have programmed to be "case controlled" Example of Old Method: If bolMCaseY = True And Not IsNull(Me.Address1) = True Then Me![Address1] = ProperManager(Me![Address1], iMCaseChoice) End If I can't seem to figure out how to "instruct" the framework which controls are to be handled and which Case to use. I would love to get rid of all those procedure stubs in CBF. Objective/Question 2: I'm trying to add an error system to the framework. Basically I want to implement an error class that will extend the current err object with Logging, SMTP error reporting, etc.. Unless I'm doing something wrong, you can't dim the err object WithEvents, so that's out. I'm able to get the system to work in the form class directly, but that's it. I would like to pass the error control to the form passed into the form collection (and maybe into the control collection, and handle the errors there, but I simply keep running into dead ends.... I'm not even sure this can be done, or should be done. I think it would make for MUCH less coding though.... I'm sure I'm going about this all wrong.....:-( Option Compare Database Option Explicit Public fdclsFrm As dclsFrm Private Err As clsErrorSystem Private Sub Form_Open(Cancel As Integer) Set fdclsFrm = New dclsFrm Set Err = New clsErrorSystem Err.Init Me fdclsFrm.Init Me, Me With fdclsFrm.colClasses .item("cboCompany").clsDepObj.Add .item("cboEmployee"), cboEmployee.Name .item("cboCompany").clsDepObj.Add fdclsFrm, Me.Name .item("cboCompany").Requery End With End Sub Private Sub cmdClose_Click() Dim lng As Long On Error GoTo HandleErr Me.Caption = "some text" lng = "Sdf" ' causes an error 'DoCmd.Close ExitHere: Exit Sub HandleErr: Select Case Err.Number Case Else MsgBox Err.BuildError("frmpeopleV3.CmdClose") End Select End Sub Robert Gracie www.servicexp.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com Sat Mar 13 18:35:49 2004 From: jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com (John W. Colby) Date: Sat, 13 Mar 2004 19:35:49 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Framework Discussion - Questions.. In-Reply-To: Message-ID: As for Objective 2, I think that someone who uses an Error System should pipe up and discuss how they see an error handler hooking in to the framework as they see it. I have always wanted to do an error handler of this type but... well... John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Robert Gracie Sent: Saturday, March 13, 2004 3:35 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] Framework Discussion - Questions.. John, I have been messing around with your last db today, and I'm trying to stay with this. I have two questions/problems.. Objective/Question 1: How would you add a "dynamic sentence case" system that is specific to certain controls. For instance, I have a several forms, each form can have up to 45 text box and combos used to enter/display data. There are 6 different "types" of information stored. One type would be "Model and Serial Numbers", Another type would be Address..etc. Each requiring a different sentence case. Which is user selectable in the program settings for each of these 6 types. Currently I'm using a procedure, which among other things passes an integer for the "case type", along with the text from the control. Something like the below is placed on the OnExit event on each of the control I have programmed to be "case controlled" Example of Old Method: If bolMCaseY = True And Not IsNull(Me.Address1) = True Then Me![Address1] = ProperManager(Me![Address1], iMCaseChoice) End If I can't seem to figure out how to "instruct" the framework which controls are to be handled and which Case to use. I would love to get rid of all those procedure stubs in CBF. Objective/Question 2: I'm trying to add an error system to the framework. Basically I want to implement an error class that will extend the current err object with Logging, SMTP error reporting, etc.. Unless I'm doing something wrong, you can't dim the err object WithEvents, so that's out. I'm able to get the system to work in the form class directly, but that's it. I would like to pass the error control to the form passed into the form collection (and maybe into the control collection, and handle the errors there, but I simply keep running into dead ends.... I'm not even sure this can be done, or should be done. I think it would make for MUCH less coding though.... I'm sure I'm going about this all wrong.....:-( Option Compare Database Option Explicit Public fdclsFrm As dclsFrm Private Err As clsErrorSystem Private Sub Form_Open(Cancel As Integer) Set fdclsFrm = New dclsFrm Set Err = New clsErrorSystem Err.Init Me fdclsFrm.Init Me, Me With fdclsFrm.colClasses .item("cboCompany").clsDepObj.Add .item("cboEmployee"), cboEmployee.Name .item("cboCompany").clsDepObj.Add fdclsFrm, Me.Name .item("cboCompany").Requery End With End Sub Private Sub cmdClose_Click() Dim lng As Long On Error GoTo HandleErr Me.Caption = "some text" lng = "Sdf" ' causes an error 'DoCmd.Close ExitHere: Exit Sub HandleErr: Select Case Err.Number Case Else MsgBox Err.BuildError("frmpeopleV3.CmdClose") End Select End Sub Robert Gracie www.servicexp.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com Sat Mar 13 19:43:09 2004 From: jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com (John W. Colby) Date: Sat, 13 Mar 2004 20:43:09 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Framework Discussion - Dependent Objects In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Jim, What I think that you are forgetting is that VFP. like .NET is a system with true inheritance. Access is not. Thus with VFP or .Net you can get bogged down with classes inheriting classes inheriting classes inheriting classes inheriting.. And of course all that inheritance has to be "built up" as the classes load. Access has none of that. Nothing inherits anything. What a framework in Access really provides is nothing more than objects (classes) written for a specific purpose, to perform specific processing. Often they are wrappers around objects that have no classes of their own allowing us to "simulate" in a very crude sense inheriting the object, but the "inheritance chain" comes to a screeching halt immediately unless of course you were to write a wrapper to a wrapper to a wrapper. Our wrapper allows us to do nothing more than add custom functionality to THAT wrapped object. Of course a class can instantiate another class to obtain encapsulated services that it needs but that is hardly the same thing as what you are referring to. In the end, my current framework has... 45 classes (I just went and counted them). Of that number, 17 are wrappers to the various controls and the form. The rest are "services" of one type or another - FTP, HTTP, Zip, Unzip, Enigma, MD5, Sysvars, Timer, AuditTrail, DependentObjects etc. Access is NOT a true OO environment. It has objects, of which you manipulate methods and properties, however true inheritance is virtually nonexistent. The issues that you refer to with VFP and .NET simply cannot occur in Access because of that. Believe me, given my druthers I'd take true inheritance and deal with the speed issue that might occur. John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Jim Dettman Sent: Saturday, March 13, 2004 5:38 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] Framework Discussion - Dependent Objects John, <> "Useable" was probably a poor choice of words on my part. I was really thinking in terms of features. I slid into "useable" in the sense that by the time you add everything that everyone might want, you've got everything except the kitchen sink. << Would you notice an additional 1/50th of a second for the framework to do it's thing?>> I only mention it because as you get further down the road and into composite classes, there gets to be a design decision in regards to how a framework should be structured for what offers. The out come of that can have a large impact on performance. This is one of the hot button issues with VFP frameworks, which you know are quite a bit farther down the framework road. Considering that VFP is a true compile and it's an issue there, I don't see how it could not be an issue at some point with VBA. Jim (315) 699-3443 jimdettman at earthlink.net From accessd at shaw.ca Sun Mar 14 03:57:55 2004 From: accessd at shaw.ca (Jim Lawrence (AccessD)) Date: Sun, 14 Mar 2004 01:57:55 -0800 Subject: [AccessD] OT: Connected mixed OS on a Pier-toPier LAN In-Reply-To: Message-ID: OT Hi All: This is off topic but I am sure others have been having the same problems and it comes as real revelation to me. The problem only affects people who support or have mixed LANs...LANs with more than one OS and XP. When connecting a mixed group of computers together, with one or more computers being XP, the conventional wisdom was to use NetBEUI. When XP first came out, it's CD held a version of NetBEUI that worked well with other OSs but with latter versions, problems started to appear...slow connections and even lockup. It appears that MS were now shipping with a propitiatory XP NetBEUI implementation. The solution is the remove all traces of the XP NetBEUI from the offending system. First remove the protocol, through the control panel, delete the files nbf.sys and netnbf.inf, find and replace same with 2000 netBEUI drivers and unbind the TCP/IP protocol, so the TCP is only used for internet communications and do the same for the rest of the network's internet communications. Do not attempt mixed protocols within a pier to pier LAN that have an XP component. The validity can be checked out at http://www.scotsnewsletter.com/38.htm#tipadaweek Hope the helps someone. Jim From BBarabash at TappeConstruction.com Sun Mar 14 08:58:56 2004 From: BBarabash at TappeConstruction.com (Brett Barabash) Date: Sun, 14 Mar 2004 08:58:56 -0600 Subject: [AccessD] OT: Connected mixed OS on a Pier-toPier LAN Message-ID: <426071E0B0A6D311B3C0006008B0AB23AFE3F9@TAPPEEXCH01> YES!!!! Thank you for this. NetBEUI was a serious pain for me to setup at home (especially since my laptop vendor doesn't supply actual WinXP installation disks). So, uh, Pier-to-Pier networking. Was that technology invented by the Navy? -----Original Message----- From: Jim Lawrence (AccessD) [mailto:accessd at shaw.ca] Sent: Sunday, March 14, 2004 3:58 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: [AccessD] OT: Connected mixed OS on a Pier-toPier LAN --------------- OT Hi All: This is off topic but I am sure others have been having the same problems and it comes as real revelation to me. The problem only affects people who support or have mixed LANs...LANs with more than one OS and XP. When connecting a mixed group of computers together, with one or more computers being XP, the conventional wisdom was to use NetBEUI. When XP first came out, it's CD held a version of NetBEUI that worked well with other OSs but with latter versions, problems started to appear...slow connections and even lockup. It appears that MS were now shipping with a propitiatory XP NetBEUI implementation. The solution is the remove all traces of the XP NetBEUI from the offending system. First remove the protocol, through the control panel, delete the files nbf.sys and netnbf.inf, find and replace same with 2000 netBEUI drivers and unbind the TCP/IP protocol, so the TCP is only used for internet communications and do the same for the rest of the network's internet communications. Do not attempt mixed protocols within a pier to pier LAN that have an XP component. The validity can be checked out at http://www.scotsnewsletter.com/38.htm#tipadaweek Hope the helps someone. Jim -------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- The information in this email may contain confidential information that is legally privileged. The information is only for the use of the intended recipient(s) named above. If you are not the intended recipient(s), you are hereby notified that any disclosure, copying, distribution, or the taking of any action in regard to the content of this fax is strictly prohibited. If transmission is incorrect, unclear, or incomplete, please notify the sender immediately. The authorized recipient(s) of this information is/are prohibited from disclosing this information to any other party and is/are required to destroy the information after its stated need has been fulfilled. Any views expressed in this message are those of the individual sender, except where the sender specifies and with authority, states them to be the views of Tappe Construction Co. This footer also confirms that this email message has been scanned for the presence of computer viruses.Scanning of this message and addition of this footer is performed by SurfControl E-mail Filter software in conjunction with virus detection software. From accessd at shaw.ca Sun Mar 14 13:10:28 2004 From: accessd at shaw.ca (Jim Lawrence (AccessD)) Date: Sun, 14 Mar 2004 11:10:28 -0800 Subject: [AccessD] OT: Connected mixed OS on a Pier-toPier LAN In-Reply-To: <426071E0B0A6D311B3C0006008B0AB23AFE3F9@TAPPEEXCH01> Message-ID: Hi Brett: Yes you are correct, Pier-to-Pier is a technology was invented by the Swiss Navy... Peer-to-Peer is probably a more accurate description. I guess this is a example of why it always good policy to re-read what you write. Jim -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Brett Barabash Sent: Sunday, March 14, 2004 6:59 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: [AccessD] OT: Connected mixed OS on a Pier-toPier LAN YES!!!! Thank you for this. NetBEUI was a serious pain for me to setup at home (especially since my laptop vendor doesn't supply actual WinXP installation disks). So, uh, Pier-to-Pier networking. Was that technology invented by the Navy? -----Original Message----- From: Jim Lawrence (AccessD) [mailto:accessd at shaw.ca] Sent: Sunday, March 14, 2004 3:58 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: [AccessD] OT: Connected mixed OS on a Pier-toPier LAN --------------- OT Hi All: This is off topic but I am sure others have been having the same problems and it comes as real revelation to me. The problem only affects people who support or have mixed LANs...LANs with more than one OS and XP. When connecting a mixed group of computers together, with one or more computers being XP, the conventional wisdom was to use NetBEUI. When XP first came out, it's CD held a version of NetBEUI that worked well with other OSs but with latter versions, problems started to appear...slow connections and even lockup. It appears that MS were now shipping with a propitiatory XP NetBEUI implementation. The solution is the remove all traces of the XP NetBEUI from the offending system. First remove the protocol, through the control panel, delete the files nbf.sys and netnbf.inf, find and replace same with 2000 netBEUI drivers and unbind the TCP/IP protocol, so the TCP is only used for internet communications and do the same for the rest of the network's internet communications. Do not attempt mixed protocols within a pier to pier LAN that have an XP component. The validity can be checked out at http://www.scotsnewsletter.com/38.htm#tipadaweek Hope the helps someone. Jim ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- ---------------------------------------- The information in this email may contain confidential information that is legally privileged. The information is only for the use of the intended recipient(s) named above. If you are not the intended recipient(s), you are hereby notified that any disclosure, copying, distribution, or the taking of any action in regard to the content of this fax is strictly prohibited. If transmission is incorrect, unclear, or incomplete, please notify the sender immediately. The authorized recipient(s) of this information is/are prohibited from disclosing this information to any other party and is/are required to destroy the information after its stated need has been fulfilled. Any views expressed in this message are those of the individual sender, except where the sender specifies and with authority, states them to be the views of Tappe Construction Co. This footer also confirms that this email message has been scanned for the presence of computer viruses.Scanning of this message and addition of this footer is performed by SurfControl E-mail Filter software in conjunction with virus detection software. -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From GregSmith at starband.net Sun Mar 14 18:17:05 2004 From: GregSmith at starband.net (Greg Smith) Date: Sun, 14 Mar 2004 18:17:05 -0600 Subject: [AccessD] Converting Access 97 to Access XP FE& BE In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <200403150016.i2F0GF3Y005874@apollo.email.starband.net> Hi Carlos! Yes! Please do. And thanks. Sorry about taking so long to respond... Greg Smith gregsmith at starband.net -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Carlos Alberto Alves Sent: Thursday, March 11, 2004 9:18 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Converting Access 97 to Access XP FE& BE On Wed, 10 Mar 2004 13:12:18 -0800, Charlotte Foust wrote: > Unless you're planning on using ADO exclusively, DAO works just fine > in XP, and you still have to fall back on DAO for somethings anyhow. > XP has no problem with either CurrentDB or CurrentProject, and there > is a certain basic support for both ADO and DAO built into XP even if > you remove *both* the references. I recommend you go through and > specifically change your declarations throughout to DAO.Recordset, > DAO.Database, etc., both to remove any confusion the engine has and to > make it easier to spot them in your code. There are certain objects > that have the same name in both models, and without the specific > declaration, Access can get them mixed up and think you're trying to > use an invalid method or property. > > Charlotte Foust Hi Greg! I have a .PDF file about DAO to ADO conversion. It is 550Kb. May I send it you offline? -- ****************************** * Carlos Alberto Alves * * Child Neurologist * * Systems Analyst/Programmer * * Rio de Janeiro, Brazil * * mailto:caa at highway.com.br * ****************************** -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From adtp at touchtelindia.net Sun Mar 14 12:16:02 2004 From: adtp at touchtelindia.net (A.D.Tejpal) Date: Sun, 14 Mar 2004 23:46:02 +0530 Subject: [AccessD] active design view in mde References: <002101c40827$cdd1ec10$fb1e65cb@winxp> <006401c40892$bec3b1c0$8ac2f63f@Desktop> Message-ID: <000101c40a45$5dec3980$c71865cb@winxp> John, Design view of forms is not permitted in an .mde file. Importing of forms from other db's (whether .mdb or .mde type) into an .mde is also not permitted. Even inclusion of Reference (in VBA Editor) to an .mdb file won't do as that makes the main .mdb non-convertible to .mde format. In order to overcome these obstacles, a work-around could be adopted if mere run-time availability of such functionality would serve the purpose. This requires creation of an Add-In (.mda) file containing a blank form. Entry module for this Add-In should envisage opening of this form. Once this Add-In is installed, it can be activated from within the main .mde file. The form exposed by the Add-In can be used in design or normal views as desired and can be referred and manipulated just as any other form in the main db. Caution - If the Add-In is activated via code contained in .mde file, care needs to be taken to allow for a little time delay before executing the procedure meant to act upon the form newly exposed by the Add-In. This is in order to allow this form to actually come into existence. Otherwise, there will be error on a/c of Access not being able to locate the form in question. The loop for time delay should also contain DoEvents statement. If you have any problems, kindly do let me know. Regards, A.D.Tejpal -------------- ----- Original Message ----- From: John Eget To: adtp at touchtelindia.net Sent: Saturday, March 13, 2004 06:02 Subject: Re: [AccessD] active design view in mde we have reports with graphs that need to be assembled on a power point slide show from our access xp database any isea is worth trying for me ----- Original Message ----- From: "A.D.Tejpal" To: "Access Developers discussion and problem solving" Sent: Friday, March 12, 2004 6:45 AM Subject: Re: [AccessD] active design view in mde > John, > > Could you kindly give more details as to why you need to do it. There may be a work-around if a temporary form would do. > > Regards, > A.D.Tejpal > -------------- > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Robert Gracie > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Sent: Friday, March 12, 2004 06:11 > Subject: RE: [AccessD] active design view in mde > > > If I understand your question,...No you can't. > > Robert Gracie > www.servicexp.com > > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of John Eget > Sent: Thursday, March 11, 2004 6:18 PM > To: AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > Subject: [AccessD] active design view in mde > > Is there anyway to active design view in an application that had been compiled in an mde format? > Thanks > John From andrew.haslett at ilc.gov.au Sun Mar 14 22:47:18 2004 From: andrew.haslett at ilc.gov.au (Haslett, Andrew) Date: Mon, 15 Mar 2004 15:17:18 +1030 Subject: [AccessD] Are you part of the 98%? Message-ID: Green Dremel! (Don't even know what a Dremel is, but I had just read up on how to fit a half-height video card into a full height slot, and they said to use one..) -----Original Message----- From: Francisco H Tapia [mailto:my.lists at verizon.net] Sent: Saturday, 13 March 2004 11:16 AM To: AccessD; Access-L Subject: [AccessD] Are you part of the 98%? Because it's Friday.... -- -Francisco ------------------- Take the test; it is amazing - Let me know what percentage range you fall into - Test Just follow the instructions as quickly as possible. Do not go to the next calculation before you have finished the previous one. You do not need to write or remember the answers, just do it using your mind. You'll be surprised. Start: How much is: 15+6 3+56 89+2 12+53 75+26 25+52 63+32 I know! Calculations are hard work but it's nearly over... Come on, one more... 123+5 QUICK! THINK ABOUT A TOOL AND A COLOR! Scroll further to the bottom... A bit more... You have just thought about a red hammer, haven't you???? If this is not the case, you are among 2% of people who have a "different" if not "abnormal" mind. 98% of the folks would answer a "red hammer" while doing this exercise. -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com IMPORTANT - PLEASE READ ******************** This email and any files transmitted with it are confidential and may contain information protected by law from disclosure. If you have received this message in error, please notify the sender immediately and delete this email from your system. No warranty is given that this email or files, if attached to this email, are free from computer viruses or other defects. They are provided on the basis the user assumes all responsibility for loss, damage or consequence resulting directly or indirectly from their use, whether caused by the negligence of the sender or not. From stuart at lexacorp.com.pg Sun Mar 14 23:57:52 2004 From: stuart at lexacorp.com.pg (Stuart McLachlan) Date: Mon, 15 Mar 2004 15:57:52 +1000 Subject: [AccessD] Are you part of the 98%? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <4055D280.30755.19654D0@localhost> On 15 Mar 2004 at 15:17, Haslett, Andrew wrote: > Green Dremel! > > (Don't even know what a Dremel is, but I had just read up on how to fit a > half-height video card into a full height slot, and they said to use one..) > A hand held rotary grinder: "The Dremel rotary tool is lightweight and compact, which makes it very "friendly" for beginners. But it's so versatile, even hardcore do-it-yourselfers find it indispensable. This is a tool that works differently from any other tool you've ever owned. It's also the most versatile tool you'll ever use. With more than 150 available accessories, you can use it to cut, sand, shape, drill, buff, grind, polish, rout, etch, clean and more. You'll use it on all kinds of materials. Metal, wood, ceramics, glass, plastic, drywall, leather, laminates, stone." http://www.dremel.com/html/home_fr.html -- Lexacorp Ltd http://www.lexacorp.com.pg Information Technology Consultancy, Software Development,System Support. From andrew.haslett at ilc.gov.au Mon Mar 15 00:10:05 2004 From: andrew.haslett at ilc.gov.au (Haslett, Andrew) Date: Mon, 15 Mar 2004 16:40:05 +1030 Subject: [AccessD] Are you part of the 98%? Message-ID: Lol. (I ended up just bending the bloody thing with some pliers -- but I'm sure it would have looked much better with something that can do all that!!) -----Original Message----- From: Stuart McLachlan [mailto:stuart at lexacorp.com.pg] Sent: Monday, 15 March 2004 4:28 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] Are you part of the 98%? On 15 Mar 2004 at 15:17, Haslett, Andrew wrote: > Green Dremel! > > (Don't even know what a Dremel is, but I had just read up on how to > fit a half-height video card into a full height slot, and they said to > use one..) > A hand held rotary grinder: "The Dremel rotary tool is lightweight and compact, which makes it very "friendly" for beginners. But it's so versatile, even hardcore do-it-yourselfers find it indispensable. This is a tool that works differently from any other tool you've ever owned. It's also the most versatile tool you'll ever use. With more than 150 available accessories, you can use it to cut, sand, shape, drill, buff, grind, polish, rout, etch, clean and more. You'll use it on all kinds of materials. Metal, wood, ceramics, glass, plastic, drywall, leather, laminates, stone." http://www.dremel.com/html/home_fr.html -- Lexacorp Ltd http://www.lexacorp.com.pg Information Technology Consultancy, Software Development,System Support. -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com IMPORTANT - PLEASE READ ******************** This email and any files transmitted with it are confidential and may contain information protected by law from disclosure. If you have received this message in error, please notify the sender immediately and delete this email from your system. No warranty is given that this email or files, if attached to this email, are free from computer viruses or other defects. They are provided on the basis the user assumes all responsibility for loss, damage or consequence resulting directly or indirectly from their use, whether caused by the negligence of the sender or not. From accessd667 at yahoo.com Mon Mar 15 00:23:12 2004 From: accessd667 at yahoo.com (S D) Date: Sun, 14 Mar 2004 22:23:12 -0800 (PST) Subject: [AccessD] Export several Export Specifications? Message-ID: <20040315062312.5180.qmail@web61104.mail.yahoo.com> Hi group, is it possible to export an export specification? '--------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 'Export export table to textfile DoCmd.TransferText acExportFixed "ECH010_Export_Specification_V2", _ "Export_Correctie_Bericht45", strExportFolder & strExportFileName, False '--------------------------------------------------------------------------------- TIA Sander Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Mail - More reliable, more storage, less spam From John.Clark at niagaracounty.com Mon Mar 15 08:06:23 2004 From: John.Clark at niagaracounty.com (John Clark) Date: Mon, 15 Mar 2004 09:06:23 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Are you part of the 98%? Message-ID: Jerry Farwell would have us believe there is correlation between "purple" and your sexual 'identity'. Then again he would have us believe we're all 'sinners' for one thing or another. Orange Pliers here! I wonder what this says about me! And those Dremel tools are awesome! I even bought one of these for my son (actually an off-brand) because it is an 'adult-type' tool that he really can't do too much damage to himself or anything else. I know he could if he tried, but he won't. John W Clark >>> Jeff at outbaktech.com 3/12/2004 11:00:27 PM >>> First thing I thought of was a purple saw Jeff Barrows Outbak Technologies, LLC Racine, WI Phone: (262) 634-0653 Mailto: jeff_developer at hotmail.com www.outbaktech.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From Mark.Mitsules at ngc.com Mon Mar 15 08:29:36 2004 From: Mark.Mitsules at ngc.com (Mitsules, Mark S. (Newport News)) Date: Mon, 15 Mar 2004 09:29:36 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Are you part of the 98%? Message-ID: I noticed the question asked for a tool and a color...but for whatever reason I did not think of them in that order. "Red Wrench" for me... Mark -----Original Message----- From: J?rgen Welz [mailto:jwelz at hotmail.com] Sent: Friday, March 12, 2004 11:30 PM To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: RE: [AccessD] Are you part of the 98%? Well. Got one out of two. I'm not in the 98 and I'm not really in the 2. I have to decide if I'm in the 0 percent or the 100 percent. Mathematically It's got to be one amongst the multitudes that make up the 100 percent. I guess it's like I always say. My glass is neither half full nor half empty.. my cup runneth over. Ciao J?rgen Welz Edmonton, Alberta jwelz at hotmail.com _________________________________________________________________ Add photos to your messages with MSN Premium. Get 2 months FREE* http://join.msn.com/?pgmarket=en-ca&page=byoa/prem&xAPID=1994&DI=1034&SU=htt p://hotmail.com/enca&HL=Market_MSNIS_Taglines -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From rusty.hammond at cpiqpc.com Mon Mar 15 09:26:17 2004 From: rusty.hammond at cpiqpc.com (rusty.hammond at cpiqpc.com) Date: Mon, 15 Mar 2004 09:26:17 -0600 Subject: [AccessD] Run a report "invisibly" Message-ID: <8301C8A868251E4C8ECD3D4FFEA40F8A0811A97A@cpixchng-1.cpiqpc.net> Mark, I would be interested in how you generated the table of contents from your report. Could you give a brief overview of what you did and/or sample code? -----Original Message----- From: Mitsules, Mark S. (Newport News) [mailto:Mark.Mitsules at ngc.com] Sent: Friday, March 12, 2004 11:32 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: [AccessD] Run a report "invisibly" Using the default print dialogue, I recently utilized the "print to file" option to generate a table of contents from code behind a HUGE report. I just deleted the print file afterwards...the generated file was all I needed. This sounds similar to your situation. Mark -----Original Message----- From: Susan Harkins [mailto:ssharkins at bellsouth.net] Sent: Friday, March 12, 2004 11:05 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: [AccessD] Run a report "invisibly" I went looking for a Print to File setting in VBA and found nothing -- surely there is one? Susan H. Hi Barbara You would still get the "Now printing report ..." message box. I would bite the bullet and work with the queries and subqueries for the export. That would probably run way faster too. /gustav > Hi, Gustav... > I wish it was a joke!!! > The report is pretty complex, with 12 subreports. There are hundreds > of calculations performed (in the report as well as all the > subreports)--- subtotals of 2 or more subreports used in calculations > in other subreports, etc. The report also outputs data to a spreadsheet. > The data in the report is (almost) exactly what I need to create an > export file requested by the client. However, I need to have a > separate interface for the export file function. I would like to > execute the report "invisibly" --- to get the data I need --- and then > just create my export file. > Is it possible to "turn off" the default printer (so the report won't > print), execute the report in Normal mode, then turn the default > printer back on? > Any other suggestions? > Thanks, > Barb > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Gustav Brock" > To: "Access Developers discussion and problem solving" > > Sent: Friday, March 12, 2004 8:51 AM > Subject: Re: [AccessD] Run a report "invisibly" >> Hi Barbara >> >> Is this a Friday joke? >> Running a report invisibly without printing it?? >> >> Well, if you insist, you must have some action code when opening or >> closing the report; pull that off the report and run it separately. >> >> /gustav >> >> >> > Is there any way to run a report invisibly (i.e., "behind the >> > scenes", > without printing it) in Access 97? The only modes available are > Preview, Normal, and Design. -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From john at winhaven.net Mon Mar 15 09:40:47 2004 From: john at winhaven.net (John Bartow) Date: Mon, 15 Mar 2004 09:40:47 -0600 Subject: [AccessD] Run a report "invisibly" In-Reply-To: <8301C8A868251E4C8ECD3D4FFEA40F8A0811A97A@cpixchng-1.cpiqpc.net> Message-ID: I think this has to be my all time favorite thread where my first reaction was "why would you want do this?" :o) Interesting! John B. -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of rusty.hammond at cpiqpc.com Sent: Monday, March 15, 2004 9:26 AM To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: RE: [AccessD] Run a report "invisibly" Mark, I would be interested in how you generated the table of contents from your report. Could you give a brief overview of what you did and/or sample code? -----Original Message----- From: Mitsules, Mark S. (Newport News) [mailto:Mark.Mitsules at ngc.com] Sent: Friday, March 12, 2004 11:32 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: [AccessD] Run a report "invisibly" Using the default print dialogue, I recently utilized the "print to file" option to generate a table of contents from code behind a HUGE report. I just deleted the print file afterwards...the generated file was all I needed. This sounds similar to your situation. Mark -----Original Message----- From: Susan Harkins [mailto:ssharkins at bellsouth.net] Sent: Friday, March 12, 2004 11:05 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: [AccessD] Run a report "invisibly" I went looking for a Print to File setting in VBA and found nothing -- surely there is one? Susan H. Hi Barbara You would still get the "Now printing report ..." message box. I would bite the bullet and work with the queries and subqueries for the export. That would probably run way faster too. /gustav > Hi, Gustav... > I wish it was a joke!!! > The report is pretty complex, with 12 subreports. There are hundreds > of calculations performed (in the report as well as all the > subreports)--- subtotals of 2 or more subreports used in calculations > in other subreports, etc. The report also outputs data to a spreadsheet. > The data in the report is (almost) exactly what I need to create an > export file requested by the client. However, I need to have a > separate interface for the export file function. I would like to > execute the report "invisibly" --- to get the data I need --- and then > just create my export file. > Is it possible to "turn off" the default printer (so the report won't > print), execute the report in Normal mode, then turn the default > printer back on? > Any other suggestions? > Thanks, > Barb > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Gustav Brock" > To: "Access Developers discussion and problem solving" > > Sent: Friday, March 12, 2004 8:51 AM > Subject: Re: [AccessD] Run a report "invisibly" >> Hi Barbara >> >> Is this a Friday joke? >> Running a report invisibly without printing it?? >> >> Well, if you insist, you must have some action code when opening or >> closing the report; pull that off the report and run it separately. >> >> /gustav >> >> >> > Is there any way to run a report invisibly (i.e., "behind the >> > scenes", > without printing it) in Access 97? The only modes available are > Preview, Normal, and Design. -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From rusty.hammond at cpiqpc.com Mon Mar 15 10:01:59 2004 From: rusty.hammond at cpiqpc.com (rusty.hammond at cpiqpc.com) Date: Mon, 15 Mar 2004 10:01:59 -0600 Subject: [AccessD] Run a report "invisibly" Message-ID: <8301C8A868251E4C8ECD3D4FFEA40F8A0811A97B@cpixchng-1.cpiqpc.net> Well if you really must know, the export to excel from an access report adds field names which I don't want in the electronic version of the report. So I thought that if I could export the data, including the subtotals and totals that I need, to a file, I could use that. Yes, I could open the query that the report is based on and spin through the recordset tallying the totals within the code, but if the report does it for me, why not use that. Also, the user is going to want a nicely formatted printed report so I could do both in one fell swoop. Rusty -----Original Message----- From: John Bartow [mailto:john at winhaven.net] Sent: Monday, March 15, 2004 9:41 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] Run a report "invisibly" I think this has to be my all time favorite thread where my first reaction was "why would you want do this?" :o) Interesting! John B. -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of rusty.hammond at cpiqpc.com Sent: Monday, March 15, 2004 9:26 AM To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: RE: [AccessD] Run a report "invisibly" Mark, I would be interested in how you generated the table of contents from your report. Could you give a brief overview of what you did and/or sample code? -----Original Message----- From: Mitsules, Mark S. (Newport News) [mailto:Mark.Mitsules at ngc.com] Sent: Friday, March 12, 2004 11:32 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: [AccessD] Run a report "invisibly" Using the default print dialogue, I recently utilized the "print to file" option to generate a table of contents from code behind a HUGE report. I just deleted the print file afterwards...the generated file was all I needed. This sounds similar to your situation. Mark -----Original Message----- From: Susan Harkins [mailto:ssharkins at bellsouth.net] Sent: Friday, March 12, 2004 11:05 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: [AccessD] Run a report "invisibly" I went looking for a Print to File setting in VBA and found nothing -- surely there is one? Susan H. Hi Barbara You would still get the "Now printing report ..." message box. I would bite the bullet and work with the queries and subqueries for the export. That would probably run way faster too. /gustav > Hi, Gustav... > I wish it was a joke!!! > The report is pretty complex, with 12 subreports. There are hundreds > of calculations performed (in the report as well as all the > subreports)--- subtotals of 2 or more subreports used in calculations > in other subreports, etc. The report also outputs data to a spreadsheet. > The data in the report is (almost) exactly what I need to create an > export file requested by the client. However, I need to have a > separate interface for the export file function. I would like to > execute the report "invisibly" --- to get the data I need --- and then > just create my export file. > Is it possible to "turn off" the default printer (so the report won't > print), execute the report in Normal mode, then turn the default > printer back on? > Any other suggestions? > Thanks, > Barb > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Gustav Brock" > To: "Access Developers discussion and problem solving" > > Sent: Friday, March 12, 2004 8:51 AM > Subject: Re: [AccessD] Run a report "invisibly" >> Hi Barbara >> >> Is this a Friday joke? >> Running a report invisibly without printing it?? >> >> Well, if you insist, you must have some action code when opening or >> closing the report; pull that off the report and run it separately. >> >> /gustav >> >> >> > Is there any way to run a report invisibly (i.e., "behind the >> > scenes", > without printing it) in Access 97? The only modes available are > Preview, Normal, and Design. -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From BarbaraRyan at cox.net Mon Mar 15 10:39:23 2004 From: BarbaraRyan at cox.net (Barbara Ryan) Date: Mon, 15 Mar 2004 11:39:23 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Run a report "invisibly" References: <8301C8A868251E4C8ECD3D4FFEA40F8A0811A97A@cpixchng-1.cpiqpc.net> Message-ID: <004301c40aac$12ae9320$0a00a8c0@cx470148a> Mark, I would also be interested in how you did this....Thanks, Barb ----- Original Message ----- From: To: Sent: Monday, March 15, 2004 10:26 AM Subject: RE: [AccessD] Run a report "invisibly" > Mark, I would be interested in how you generated the table of contents from > your report. Could you give a brief overview of what you did and/or sample > code? > > -----Original Message----- > From: Mitsules, Mark S. (Newport News) [mailto:Mark.Mitsules at ngc.com] > Sent: Friday, March 12, 2004 11:32 AM > To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' > Subject: RE: [AccessD] Run a report "invisibly" > > > Using the default print dialogue, I recently utilized the "print to file" > option to generate a table of contents from code behind a HUGE report. I > just deleted the print file afterwards...the generated file was all I > needed. > > This sounds similar to your situation. > > > > Mark > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: Susan Harkins [mailto:ssharkins at bellsouth.net] > Sent: Friday, March 12, 2004 11:05 AM > To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' > Subject: RE: [AccessD] Run a report "invisibly" > > > I went looking for a Print to File setting in VBA and found nothing -- > surely there is one? > > Susan H. > > Hi Barbara > > You would still get the "Now printing report ..." message box. > > I would bite the bullet and work with the queries and subqueries for the > export. That would probably run way faster too. > > /gustav > > > > Hi, Gustav... > > > I wish it was a joke!!! > > > The report is pretty complex, with 12 subreports. There are hundreds > > of calculations performed (in the report as well as all the > > subreports)--- subtotals of 2 or more subreports used in calculations > > in other subreports, etc. The report also outputs data to a spreadsheet. > > > The data in the report is (almost) exactly what I need to create an > > export file requested by the client. However, I need to have a > > separate interface for the export file function. I would like to > > execute the report "invisibly" --- to get the data I need --- and then > > just create my export file. > > > Is it possible to "turn off" the default printer (so the report won't > > print), execute the report in Normal mode, then turn the default > > printer back on? > > > Any other suggestions? > > > Thanks, > > Barb > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: "Gustav Brock" > > To: "Access Developers discussion and problem solving" > > > > Sent: Friday, March 12, 2004 8:51 AM > > Subject: Re: [AccessD] Run a report "invisibly" > > > >> Hi Barbara > >> > >> Is this a Friday joke? > >> Running a report invisibly without printing it?? > >> > >> Well, if you insist, you must have some action code when opening or > >> closing the report; pull that off the report and run it separately. > >> > >> /gustav > >> > >> > >> > Is there any way to run a report invisibly (i.e., "behind the > >> > scenes", > > without printing it) in Access 97? The only modes available are > > Preview, Normal, and Design. > > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From cfoust at infostatsystems.com Mon Mar 15 10:36:08 2004 From: cfoust at infostatsystems.com (Charlotte Foust) Date: Mon, 15 Mar 2004 08:36:08 -0800 Subject: [AccessD] Export several Export Specifications? Message-ID: You can import IMEX specs, which imports the records in the two IMEX system tables from a selected database, but I don't know what you hope to accomplish by exporting them. You would have to export the two tables involved, since the specs are contained in MSysIMEXSpecs and MSysIMEXColumns. Charlotte Foust -----Original Message----- From: S D [mailto:accessd667 at yahoo.com] Sent: Sunday, March 14, 2004 10:23 PM To: accessd Subject: [AccessD] Export several Export Specifications? Hi group, is it possible to export an export specification? '----------------------------------------------------------------------- ---------- 'Export export table to textfile DoCmd.TransferText acExportFixed "ECH010_Export_Specification_V2", _ "Export_Correctie_Bericht45", strExportFolder & strExportFileName, False '----------------------------------------------------------------------- ---------- TIA Sander Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Mail - More reliable, more storage, less spam -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From rl_stewart at highstream.net Mon Mar 15 10:51:15 2004 From: rl_stewart at highstream.net (Robert L. Stewart) Date: Mon, 15 Mar 2004 10:51:15 -0600 Subject: [AccessD] Re: question on normalization In-Reply-To: <200403131653.i2DGrTM04569@databaseadvisors.com> Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20040315104748.0295b000@pop3.highstream.net> Tina, Give me a couple of days (probably Wednesday) and I will send you the DDL to create everything in SQL Server, an Access MDB with the data, and an ADP with cascading comboboxes to do the data entry for the country, region (state), county/province, city, and postal code. If anyone else wants a copy, let me know and I will send them all out at the same time to save on bandwidth. Robert At 10:53 AM 3/13/2004 -0600, you wrote: >Date: Sat, 13 Mar 2004 08:17:04 -0500 >From: Tina Norris Fields >Subject: Re: [AccessD] Re: question on normalization >To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > >Message-ID: <405309D0.80502 at torchlake.com> >Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed > >Hurray for the normalization freaks! >Robert, I would like to have your zip-code database for the US. I did >download some files from the USPS that I can combine into the tables I >need, but if you have that already done, it would save me quite a bit of >work. Thank you. >Tina >P.S. I did get the naming conventions zip - although I had to get it out >of quarantine at my ISP - seems there have been some viri running around >lately masquerading as zips. >T From rl_stewart at highstream.net Mon Mar 15 10:53:30 2004 From: rl_stewart at highstream.net (Robert L. Stewart) Date: Mon, 15 Mar 2004 10:53:30 -0600 Subject: [AccessD] Re: question on normalization In-Reply-To: <200403131653.i2DGrTM04569@databaseadvisors.com> Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20040315105215.02a52068@pop3.highstream.net> Zone Improvement Plan 77418 (mine) is shared among 4 place names. At 10:53 AM 3/13/2004 -0600, you wrote: >Date: Sat, 13 Mar 2004 08:45:01 -0500 >From: Tina Norris Fields >Subject: Re: [AccessD] question on normalization >To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > >Message-ID: <4053105D.8060108 at torchlake.com> >Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed > >Okay, I just wonder what happened to the original intent of Zip codes - >wasn't that to uniquely identify delivery locations? That certainly is >what I remember - unique codes to make it possible for automatic and >correct mail sorting by machines. Hmmmmmmmmmmmm >Tina > >Charlotte Foust wrote: > > >Unfortunately, while zip codes are supposed to be unique, they may be > >shared among several small towns or a town may have multiple zip codes. > >Some buildings even have unique zip codes, but generally zip codes > >belong to post offices. I would say they were not a good candidate for > >a primary key in dealing with addresses. I've worked with postal > >databases and seen some of the "duplicate" zips, where several small > >towns share a post office and a zip code. A further complication is the > >+four extension. > > > >Charlotte Foust From cfoust at infostatsystems.com Mon Mar 15 10:58:48 2004 From: cfoust at infostatsystems.com (Charlotte Foust) Date: Mon, 15 Mar 2004 08:58:48 -0800 Subject: [AccessD] question on normalization Message-ID: Actually, what the machines sort down to is a carrier's route. The Plus 4 is supposed to get down further than that, but I haven't looked into it lately, so my knowledge of it is dusty. Charlotte Foust -----Original Message----- From: Tina Norris Fields [mailto:tinanfields at torchlake.com] Sent: Saturday, March 13, 2004 5:45 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] question on normalization Okay, I just wonder what happened to the original intent of Zip codes - wasn't that to uniquely identify delivery locations? That certainly is what I remember - unique codes to make it possible for automatic and correct mail sorting by machines. Hmmmmmmmmmmmm Tina Charlotte Foust wrote: >Unfortunately, while zip codes are supposed to be unique, they may be >shared among several small towns or a town may have multiple zip codes. >Some buildings even have unique zip codes, but generally zip codes >belong to post offices. I would say they were not a good candidate for >a primary key in dealing with addresses. I've worked with postal >databases and seen some of the "duplicate" zips, where several small >towns share a post office and a zip code. A further complication is >the >+four extension. > >Charlotte Foust > >-----Original Message----- >From: John Clark [mailto:John.Clark at niagaracounty.com] >Sent: Friday, March 12, 2004 7:03 AM >To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com >Subject: RE: [AccessD] question on normalization > > >But, in my case, it would be OK then? I will not have an issue with >them being unique. > >JW Clark > > > >>>>ssharkins at bellsouth.net 3/12/2004 9:55:22 AM >>> >>>> >>>> > > >As a sidebar--sort of--why can't the zip itself be a primary key? > >========We're told that ZIP codes aren't unique -- most are, but there >those few... I've not encountered it myself, but that's what we're >told. >;) > >Susan H. > > > -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From artful at rogers.com Mon Mar 15 14:04:01 2004 From: artful at rogers.com (Arthur Fuller) Date: Mon, 15 Mar 2004 12:04:01 -0800 Subject: [AccessD] DependentObjects class In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <023f01c40ac8$a9470f80$6501a8c0@rock> Good answer(s). Now I want to push the envelope a bit, and ensure that the framework can handle it.... On a given form I have N checkboxes or option buttons or whatever. Beside these (some subset of all the controls), I have a DateUpdated field -- classic case of Dependent Object. But I want more than that. I want to write to a table ValuesChanged, automatically (i.e. class behaviour), sending the table name, the field name, the userID and the dateTime. And have this happen as a simple result of changing said control. Arthur -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of John W. Colby Sent: Friday, March 12, 2004 2:11 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] DependentObjects class >Instead, they recommend creating a class that holds both controls as attributes of the class. This may or may not work in VBA, of course. And of course that can be done. However since the framework exists (or will!) and it has a combo class, why not allow any combo to know that something else is dependent on it, and then when it changes go requery anything that is dependent? In addition, in many cases where I have seen this sort of "one combo depends on another's value" thing done, it is IMO frequently the result of bad design at the database level. Yes, but you intentionally chose an example of normalization issues. What about companies / people / employees? As you select a different company in ComboA you want the "choice" of Employees in ComboB to change? What about Companies / payments, companies / invoices, companies... Dependent combos is SO common that it is a frequent "how do I" topic on this very list. >So in that case we're back to the custom class that embeds both combos. Absolutely possible and in fact easy using classes and Withevents. But again, all I have to do is tell the class instance for ComboA that ComboA "is dependent on it" and then whenever ComboA changes it automatically requeries ComboB. If comboC is dependent on ComboB, then when ComboB is requeried by ComboA, ComboB looks in it's dependent objects collection (or class) and requeries all of ITs dependent objects. This is a classic case of a normal framework behavior replacing custom programming. >But I do believe that designing classes that know specifics about other classes (i.e. worst of all is that they must know the name of the other class's instance) is fundamentally incorrect. The class doesn't know anything except it has a collection of objects that it needs to requery!!! No clue at all what the objects are, just that they are in its collection and it needs to call a requery method for each one. In fact the objects can be other combos, other lists, subforms, other open forms... anything in the application that is a class and as a requery method. The DEVELOPER knows that ComboB depends on ComboA and in the form's Open event tells the framework (a specific class instance). Further combos aren't the only objects that can have dependent objects. Basically anything (any control) that can be referenced by the SQL of another control can have dependent objects. A text box can be referenced by a combo so it can have a dependent objects class. Likewise a checkbox, a radio button, ANYTHING that can be referenced by SQL in the recordset for a control or form. Stick around for the discussion, we are about to add that functionality to our "framework" (it isn't a framework yet!) so you can see what I am talking about. John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Arthur Fuller Sent: Friday, March 12, 2004 1:49 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: [AccessD] DependentObjects class Further, in the O-O courses that I have taken this kind of thing is specifically discouraged because it tightly couples the controls. Instead, they recommend creating creating a class that holds both controls as attributes of the class. This may or may not work in VBA, of course. In addition, in many cases where I have seen this sort of "one combo depends on another's value" thing done, it is IMO frequently the result of bad design at the database level. For example, a table contains say State and City fields, populated from the tables States and Cities -- and then the UI filters the Cities field on the basis of the State selection: bad design, IMO. There's no need to store the State, since we have the city, and New York exists in only one state. On the other hand, take the case of ProductCategories and Products. At the database level, IMO, the same pertains: do not store the category since it can be inferred from the product. However, it may well be useful for the user to select a category and then a product from said category. So in that case we're back to the custom class that embeds both combos. I don't know if that approach can work in Access. I leave that to JC to determine. But I do believe that designing classes that know specifics about other classes (i.e. worst of all is that they must know the name of the other class's instance) is fundamentally incorrect. Just my $.02 Arthur -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Stuart McLachlan Sent: Wednesday, March 10, 2004 9:40 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problemsolving Subject: Re: [AccessD] DependentObjects class On 11 Mar 2004 at 0:11, John W. Colby wrote: > I am working on a dependentobjects class, i.e. a class with a > collection which holds objects (classes) where the control or form is > dependent on the current control. Combo A changes. Combo B uses > Combo A to filter itself. Combo B is "dependent" on combo A and must > be requeried whenever Combo A changes. > > This is a case where I programmed a solution working but it was ugly. > How would you solve this problem? > I doubt if I would do it with a class. It's not *that* common a requirement and there are so many different ways that you can end up with circular references, CtlA - CtlB - CtlC - CtlD...... CtlX - CtlC etc that trying to allow for them would end up with such code bolat that the whole thing became inefficient. -- Lexacorp Ltd http://www.lexacorp.com.pg Information Technology Consultancy, Software Development,System Support. -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From DWUTKA at marlow.com Mon Mar 15 11:22:54 2004 From: DWUTKA at marlow.com (DWUTKA at marlow.com) Date: Mon, 15 Mar 2004 11:22:54 -0600 Subject: [AccessD] Framework Discussion - Who's following this Message-ID: <2F8793082E00D4119A1700B0D0216BF80222796D@main2.marlow.com> If you want to use early binding, you can do something like this: (FWControl Class) Option Explicit Property Get SomeValue() As Long End Property Property Let SomeValue(intEnter As Long) End Property Public Function RunSomething() End Function (FWCombo Class) Option Explicit Implements FWControl Dim intTemp As Long Private Function FWControl_RunSomething() As Variant intTemp = intTemp * 2 End Function Private Property Let FWControl_SomeValue(RHS As Long) intTemp = RHS End Property Private Property Get FWControl_SomeValue() As Long FWControl_SomeValue = intTemp End Property Public Function ComboSpecific() intTemp = 100 End Function The combo specific function is going to set the 'SomeValue' property to 100. With late binding, you can use one variable. However, Intellisense won't pick that up. You can, however, use 2 variables, with early binding, to represent the same object. Take the two classes above. FWCombo Implements FWControl. So if we want to work with a FWControl, that has FWCombo specific capabilities: dim fw As FWControl dim fwc As FWCombo set fw=New FWCombo set fwc=fw fw.SomeValue=6 fw.RunSomething msgbox fw.SomeValue fwc.ComboSpecific msgbox fw.SomeValue Note, two variables, pointing to the same object. FW is the 'generic' implemented class, and fwc is the more specific class. Drew -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of John W. Colby Sent: Friday, March 12, 2004 7:13 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] Framework Discussion - Who's following this Drew, I am open to interfaces, assuming that you can present a case for a significant advantage. What do I gain by implements? Other than being able to treat the objects as a custom type (class) rather than an object what have I gained? Am I getting early binding out of this so that Intellisense works? If so can I "get at" all of the class properties, i.e. not just those implemented? IOW, if I say: Set FWObj = New FWComboBox can I then say FWObj.ComboClassSpecificProperty? That would definitely be cool, and powerful. At the moment when I pass an object, I get late binding so I can't really tell if I am getting a valid method, passing valid parameters etc. until I test it out at runtime. Implements and interfaces adds another level of complexity that even I don't understand. My audience here may already be struggling with just figuring out classes and withevents. If I am going to throw in Interfaces and Implements (and learn it myself) it has to be for a darned good reason. John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com Something I'd like to ask, in an earlier post, you were explaining how you were 'linking' your Class objects. Just out of curiousity, why not do something like this: FrameWorkControl Class: Option Compare Database Property Set LinkedObject(objTemp As Object) End Property Public Function CleanUp() End Function Property Get ObjectName() As String End Property Property Get ObjectType() As String End Property FWComboBox Class: Option Compare Database Implements FrameWorkControl Dim WithEvents lnkObject As ComboBox Private Function FrameWorkControl_CleanUp() As Variant Set lnkObject = Nothing End Function Private Property Set FrameWorkControl_LinkedObject(RHS As Object) Set lnkObject = RHS lnkObject.OnClick = "[Event Procedure]" End Property Private Property Get FrameWorkControl_ObjectName() As String FrameWorkControl_ObjectName = lnkObject.Name End Property Private Property Get FrameWorkControl_ObjectType() As String FrameWorkControl_ObjectType = "ComboBox" End Property Private Sub lnkObject_Click() MsgBox lnkObject.Name End Sub FWTextBox Class: Option Compare Database Implements FrameWorkControl Dim WithEvents lnkObject As TextBox Private Function FrameWorkControl_CleanUp() As Variant Set lnkObject = Nothing End Function Private Property Set FrameWorkControl_LinkedObject(RHS As Object) Set lnkObject = RHS lnkObject.OnClick = "[Event Procedure]" End Property Private Property Get FrameWorkControl_ObjectName() As String FrameWorkControl_ObjectName = lnkObject.Name End Property Private Property Get FrameWorkControl_ObjectType() As String FrameWorkControl_ObjectType = "TextBox" End Property Private Sub lnkObject_Click() MsgBox lnkObject.Name End Sub Example Form Code: Dim FrameWorkObjects As Collection Private Sub Form_Load() Dim FWObj As FrameWorkControl Dim ctrl As Control Dim blValidControl As Boolean Set FrameWorkObjects = New Collection For Each ctrl In Me.Controls blValidControl = False If TypeOf ctrl Is TextBox Then Set FWObj = New FWTextBox blValidControl = True End If If TypeOf ctrl Is ComboBox Then Set FWObj = New FWComboBox blValidControl = True End If If blValidControl Then Set FWObj.LinkedObject = ctrl FrameWorkObjects.Add FWObj, FWObj.ObjectName Set FWObj = Nothing End If Next End Sub -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From DWUTKA at marlow.com Mon Mar 15 11:48:42 2004 From: DWUTKA at marlow.com (DWUTKA at marlow.com) Date: Mon, 15 Mar 2004 11:48:42 -0600 Subject: [AccessD] Combo on Continuous Form Message-ID: <2F8793082E00D4119A1700B0D0216BF80222796F@main2.marlow.com> Ran into a similar situation this weekend. I was building a PO system. I have a table that lists the parts that are 'needed'. I then wanted to open a continuous form, and have a combo for each 'group' of parts (it summed the quantities requested, grouped by part number and Job number) which displays the list of available vendors for that part. Ran into all sorts of problems. What I ended up doing, was instead of using a 'natural' continuous form, I created my own 'continuous' form. Sure, it took an extra hour to build it, but what I ended up with was a form much easier to control. Drew -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Mark A Matte Sent: Wednesday, March 10, 2004 3:50 PM To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: RE: [AccessD] Combo on Continuous Form Because the form I'm building will be the same form for multiple products...but each product will have different attributes...and different values available depending on the product and the attribute. So the dropdown on each row will have different values...depending on what attribute is on that row. Thanks, Mark >From: "Jim DeMarco" >Reply-To: Access Developers discussion and problem >solving >To: "Access Developers discussion and problem solving" > >Subject: RE: [AccessD] Combo on Continuous Form >Date: Wed, 10 Mar 2004 10:28:35 -0500 > >Mark, > >Why not put it in the form Header instead? > >Jim DeMarco > >-----Original Message----- >From: Mark A Matte [mailto:markamatte at hotmail.com] >Sent: Tuesday, March 09, 2004 9:58 PM >To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com >Subject: [AccessD] Combo on Continuous Form > > >Hello, > >In A2k I want a combo box on a each row of the continuous form that filters >by the current record on that continuous form. Suggestions anyone? > >Thanks, > >Mark > >_________________________________________________________________ >Get business advice and resources to improve your work life, from bCentral. >http://special.msn.com/bcentral/loudclear.armx > >-- >_______________________________________________ >AccessD mailing list >AccessD at databaseadvisors.com >http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd >Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > > > >*************************************************************************** ******** >"This electronic message is intended to be for the use only of the named >recipient, and may contain information from Hudson Health Plan (HHP) that >is confidential or privileged. If you are not the intended recipient, you >are hereby notified that any disclosure, copying, distribution or use of >the contents of this message is strictly prohibited. If you have received >this message in error or are not the named recipient, please notify us >immediately, either by contacting the sender at the electronic mail address >noted above or calling HHP at (914) 631-1611. If you are not the intended >recipient, please do not forward this email to anyone, and delete and >destroy all copies of this message. Thank You". >*************************************************************************** ******** > >-- >_______________________________________________ >AccessD mailing list >AccessD at databaseadvisors.com >http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd >Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com _________________________________________________________________ FREE pop-up blocking with the new MSN Toolbar - get it now! http://clk.atdmt.com/AVE/go/onm00200415ave/direct/01/ -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From michael.broesdorf at web.de Mon Mar 15 12:10:32 2004 From: michael.broesdorf at web.de (=?iso-8859-1?Q?Michael_Br=F6sdorf?=) Date: Mon, 15 Mar 2004 19:10:32 +0100 Subject: [AccessD] Access 2003 Developer Edition? In-Reply-To: <2F8793082E00D4119A1700B0D0216BF80222796F@main2.marlow.com> Message-ID: Hello, I noticed that there seems to no more Office 2003 Developers Edition. Is it still possible to create Run-Time applications with Access 2003? ` Michael From jarus at amerinet-gpo.com Mon Mar 15 12:14:21 2004 From: jarus at amerinet-gpo.com (Terri Jarus) Date: Mon, 15 Mar 2004 12:14:21 -0600 Subject: [AccessD] FMS Total Access Memo Question Message-ID: Is anybody using this software? I purchased it a few weeks ago and I'm running into some issues of which I was unaware. My key reason for getting this software was to have the ability to format memo fields and then export them to Word. However, I was unaware of the difficulty in doing this. Is there some other 3rd party software that allows this functionality? Thanks for any hints, tips or advice. Terri Jarus Director, Contract Support Services jarus at amerinet-gpo.com 314-542-1902 --------------------------------------------------------------------------- This email and any files transmitted with it are confidential and intended solely for the use of the individuals or entities to whom they are addressed. If you have received this email in error please return it to the sender, and erase any copies thereof. Copyright 2004 Amerinet 1nc. From ggonzalez at cccis.com Mon Mar 15 12:16:38 2004 From: ggonzalez at cccis.com (ggonzalez at cccis.com) Date: Mon, 15 Mar 2004 12:16:38 -0600 Subject: [AccessD] Unzipping files Programmatically In-Reply-To: Message-ID: I am tying to unzip files programmatically, but don't know where to start. Can anyone point me in the right direction TIA, Gumaro From cfoust at infostatsystems.com Mon Mar 15 12:30:59 2004 From: cfoust at infostatsystems.com (Charlotte Foust) Date: Mon, 15 Mar 2004 10:30:59 -0800 Subject: [AccessD] Access 2003 Developer Edition? Message-ID: You need the Visual Studio Tools for Office 2003, as well as Access 2003, to create runtimes. There is no developer's edition for 2003. Charlotte Foust -----Original Message----- From: Michael Br?sdorf [mailto:michael.broesdorf at web.de] Sent: Monday, March 15, 2004 10:11 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: [AccessD] Access 2003 Developer Edition? Hello, I noticed that there seems to no more Office 2003 Developers Edition. Is it still possible to create Run-Time applications with Access 2003? ` Michael -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From artful at rogers.com Mon Mar 15 15:32:22 2004 From: artful at rogers.com (Arthur Fuller) Date: Mon, 15 Mar 2004 13:32:22 -0800 Subject: [AccessD] Set up tables - Please Help In-Reply-To: <20040313160451.HCCL13717.imf16aec.mail.bellsouth.net@SUSANONE> Message-ID: <024001c40ad5$04d27630$6501a8c0@rock> I'll toss in my $.02 here, SSH.... You assume that a given entity cannot be a Buyer, a Requestor and a Vendor simultaneously, or any two of same. I'd go with preserving most of your notion -- placing them all in a single table -- and attach to that a child table (or alternatively three yes/no fields) depicting the entity type. If we are guaranteed that there will emerge no new entity types in the forseeable future, the columns will be quicker. If at any moment there might emerge a new entity type, then I'd go with the child table. Arthur -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Susan Harkins Sent: Saturday, March 13, 2004 8:05 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: [AccessD] Set up tables - Please Help Virginia, is the data basically the same for everyone? What kind of data are you storing for each buyer, requestor, and vendor because you could just dump them all in one table and then flag each as a buyer, requestor or vendor using some kind of id value. That's one way to go. Or, you could have a separate table for each -- and you should if the data is significantly different for each to avoid all those blanks where data doesn't apply to one type. So, do you have a separate table for the following as well: contracts, business type, and account type? The two latter sound like classic lookup tables. Susan H. Can someone please help me - I am having the hardest time setting up my tables for this new vendor program. I have tried making a main vendor table but when I try to put the data all together, my form is blank and you can't add any records. I am so frustrated with this whole thing. I keep telling myself it shouldn't be this hard! A request has a buyer, requestor, and a Vendor. A Vendor has a contact, type of business, and an account type. Sounds so easy.... well, every way I try I get ZERO data. Virginia -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From cfoust at infostatsystems.com Mon Mar 15 12:34:23 2004 From: cfoust at infostatsystems.com (Charlotte Foust) Date: Mon, 15 Mar 2004 10:34:23 -0800 Subject: [AccessD] Unzipping files Programmatically Message-ID: I believe you're going to need to program calls to the library for the zip product you're using. At least, that's how we do it using DynaZip. Charlotte Foust -----Original Message----- From: ggonzalez at cccis.com [mailto:ggonzalez at cccis.com] Sent: Monday, March 15, 2004 10:17 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Unzipping files Programmatically I am tying to unzip files programmatically, but don't know where to start. Can anyone point me in the right direction TIA, Gumaro -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From orthorabod at yahoo.com Mon Mar 15 12:38:51 2004 From: orthorabod at yahoo.com (Dick Abo) Date: Mon, 15 Mar 2004 10:38:51 -0800 (PST) Subject: [AccessD] Detecting when an Access Report has been closed! Message-ID: <20040315183851.5477.qmail@web13012.mail.yahoo.com> I have a form from which the user views a report in Print Preview mode by clicking the ?View Report? button. I would like user to respond to the question to ?Publish?, or ?Not Publish? the report after the report is viewed. If the user decides to Publish the report, I export the report to Word and then save it in Ascii format (MS-DOS text w/layout). I could incorporate a separate button on the form that just generates the Access 2000 report in acPreview mode. I would prefer to detect when the report has been closed by the user so that I can then ask the question, ?Publish or Not Publish? the report and to execute the remaining code that is behind the existing ?View Report? button? Can you kindly give me some advice on how to do this! TIA, Rick Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Mail - More reliable, more storage, less spam From Mark.Mitsules at ngc.com Mon Mar 15 12:43:04 2004 From: Mark.Mitsules at ngc.com (Mitsules, Mark S. (Newport News)) Date: Mon, 15 Mar 2004 13:43:04 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Mark's TOC Was: Run a report "invisibly" Message-ID: >> Mark, I would be interested in how you generated the table of contents from your report. Could you give a brief overview of what you did and/or sample code? << >> Mark, I would also be interested in how you did this....Thanks, Barb << This began in a thread titled "A2K2 - Report Grouping - Page Numbering". I was searching for a method to generate custom page numbering. Jim Dettman was able to push me in the right direction. That thread will provide all the background as well as the code I utilized. Essentially, the page numbers are generated programmatically each time the report is run. The page numbers are fed into text boxes in the page footer during the PageFooterSection_Format event. Once the report matured to a "ready to issue" state, I utilized the On Page event (posted again below...watch for line wrap) to write the Group Header items and corresponding page numbers to a file, thus creating a table of contents. I must retract an earlier post where I indicated utilizing the "Print to File" option to generate a Table of Contents. Initially, I recall wanting to utilize that option, because, of course, it would be faster. However, after re-reading some of my earlier posts, I now remember that it was because of the inherit speed differences between running the code and writing to a text file, the page numbers could not keep in sync. The work-around was to call the report up in preview mode and manually page through the report. Sorry for the mis-direction. Probably clear as mud by now, so please ask for clarification if needed. Mark ' ***************************************************** ' *** FOR THE FINAL PRINT *** ' *** REMOVED THE ON PAGE EVENT THAT BUILDS THE TOC *** ' ***************************************************** 'Private Sub Report_Page() ' Dim strOutputFile As String ' Dim strPath As String ' ' strPath = "C:\Temp2\" ' strOutputFile = "DA4700-3808_PageNumbers.txt" ' ' Open strPath & strOutputFile For Append As #2 ' ' 'IOQSXZ are intentionally removed from the list below. ' strPageNumber = Trim(Format$(intMajor, "###") & Mid$(" ABCDEFGHJKLMNPRTUVWY", intMinor, 1)) ' ' Write #2, strLeadDesignation & " " & strPageNumber ' Close #2 ' 'End Sub From cfoust at infostatsystems.com Mon Mar 15 12:48:37 2004 From: cfoust at infostatsystems.com (Charlotte Foust) Date: Mon, 15 Mar 2004 10:48:37 -0800 Subject: [AccessD] Detecting when an Access Report has been closed! Message-ID: You can sink the Close event of the report on your form using the WithEvents keyword. Check out WithEvents in on-line help (and in the archives for extensive discussion). If you need additional help, post back. Charlotte Foust -----Original Message----- From: Dick Abo [mailto:orthorabod at yahoo.com] Sent: Monday, March 15, 2004 10:39 AM To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Cc: orthorabod at yahoo.com Subject: [AccessD] Detecting when an Access Report has been closed! I have a form from which the user views a report in Print Preview mode by clicking the 'View Report' button. I would like user to respond to the question to 'Publish', or 'Not Publish' the report after the report is viewed. If the user decides to Publish the report, I export the report to Word and then save it in Ascii format (MS-DOS text w/layout). I could incorporate a separate button on the form that just generates the Access 2000 report in acPreview mode. I would prefer to detect when the report has been closed by the user so that I can then ask the question, "Publish or Not Publish" the report and to execute the remaining code that is behind the existing 'View Report' button? Can you kindly give me some advice on how to do this! TIA, Rick Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Mail - More reliable, more storage, less spam -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From markamatte at hotmail.com Mon Mar 15 12:56:32 2004 From: markamatte at hotmail.com (Mark A Matte) Date: Mon, 15 Mar 2004 18:56:32 +0000 Subject: [AccessD] Combo on Continuous Form Message-ID: Drew, The approach I took was to use a bound textbox over the unbound combo...there were a few little quirks to over come...when the textbox got focus, I made the combo dropdown...when you left the subform containing the combo...the last record that had focus displayed the value chosen on the record before...overcame this one by using the OnExit of the subform and setting focus to a different field on the sub and setting the value of the combo to null. Overall...I reached the desired outcome...but it was tricky getting there. Thanks for everyone's help. ...and if you don't mind sharing...I would love to see a sample of the form you came up with. Thanks, Mark A. Matte >From: DWUTKA at marlow.com >Reply-To: Access Developers discussion and problem >solving >To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com >Subject: RE: [AccessD] Combo on Continuous Form >Date: Mon, 15 Mar 2004 11:48:42 -0600 > >Ran into a similar situation this weekend. I was building a PO system. I >have a table that lists the parts that are 'needed'. I then wanted to open >a continuous form, and have a combo for each 'group' of parts (it summed >the >quantities requested, grouped by part number and Job number) which displays >the list of available vendors for that part. Ran into all sorts of >problems. > >What I ended up doing, was instead of using a 'natural' continuous form, I >created my own 'continuous' form. Sure, it took an extra hour to build it, >but what I ended up with was a form much easier to control. > >Drew > >-----Original Message----- >From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com >[mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Mark A Matte >Sent: Wednesday, March 10, 2004 3:50 PM >To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com >Subject: RE: [AccessD] Combo on Continuous Form > > > >Because the form I'm building will be the same form for multiple >products...but each product will have different attributes...and different >values available depending on the product and the attribute. So the >dropdown on each row will have different values...depending on what >attribute is on that row. > >Thanks, > >Mark > > >From: "Jim DeMarco" > >Reply-To: Access Developers discussion and problem > >solving > >To: "Access Developers discussion and problem solving" > > > >Subject: RE: [AccessD] Combo on Continuous Form > >Date: Wed, 10 Mar 2004 10:28:35 -0500 > > > >Mark, > > > >Why not put it in the form Header instead? > > > >Jim DeMarco > > > >-----Original Message----- > >From: Mark A Matte [mailto:markamatte at hotmail.com] > >Sent: Tuesday, March 09, 2004 9:58 PM > >To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com > >Subject: [AccessD] Combo on Continuous Form > > > > > >Hello, > > > >In A2k I want a combo box on a each row of the continuous form that >filters > > >by the current record on that continuous form. Suggestions anyone? > > > >Thanks, > > > >Mark > > > >_________________________________________________________________ > >Get business advice and resources to improve your work life, from >bCentral. > > >http://special.msn.com/bcentral/loudclear.armx > > > >-- > >_______________________________________________ > >AccessD mailing list > >AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > >http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > >Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > > > > > > > > > > >*************************************************************************** >******** > >"This electronic message is intended to be for the use only of the named > >recipient, and may contain information from Hudson Health Plan (HHP) that > >is confidential or privileged. If you are not the intended recipient, >you > >are hereby notified that any disclosure, copying, distribution or use of > >the contents of this message is strictly prohibited. If you have >received > >this message in error or are not the named recipient, please notify us > >immediately, either by contacting the sender at the electronic mail >address > > >noted above or calling HHP at (914) 631-1611. If you are not the intended > >recipient, please do not forward this email to anyone, and delete and > >destroy all copies of this message. Thank You". > >*************************************************************************** >******** > > > >-- > >_______________________________________________ > >AccessD mailing list > >AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > >http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > >Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > >_________________________________________________________________ >FREE pop-up blocking with the new MSN Toolbar - get it now! >http://clk.atdmt.com/AVE/go/onm00200415ave/direct/01/ > >-- >_______________________________________________ >AccessD mailing list >AccessD at databaseadvisors.com >http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd >Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com >-- >_______________________________________________ >AccessD mailing list >AccessD at databaseadvisors.com >http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd >Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com _________________________________________________________________ One-click access to Hotmail from any Web page ? download MSN Toolbar now! http://clk.atdmt.com/AVE/go/onm00200413ave/direct/01/ From martyconnelly at shaw.ca Mon Mar 15 13:30:46 2004 From: martyconnelly at shaw.ca (MartyConnelly) Date: Mon, 15 Mar 2004 11:30:46 -0800 Subject: [AccessD] Access 2003 Developer Edition? References: Message-ID: <40560466.1080601@shaw.ca> The Access 2003 runtime ships with any version of Office 2003 that has Access 2003, the license to redistribute solutions with the Access runtime is available exclusively through the Access Developer Extensions. The Access Developer Extensions include the Package Wizard and other developer-oriented tools. The Package Wizard creates a package based on an Access 2003 solution that users can install and uninstall with the Microsoft Windows Installer. You can only acquire the Access Developer Extensions by buying the "Visual Studio Tools for the Microsoft Office System". http://msdn.microsoft.com/vstudio/office Packaging Access 2003 Solutions Rick Dobson http://msdn.microsoft.com/library/default.asp?url=/library/en-us/dnsmart03/html/sa03j8.asp Michael Br?sdorf wrote: >Hello, > >I noticed that there seems to no more Office 2003 Developers Edition. Is it >still possible to create Run-Time applications with Access 2003? >` >Michael > > > -- Marty Connelly Victoria, B.C. Canada From DWUTKA at marlow.com Mon Mar 15 13:38:34 2004 From: DWUTKA at marlow.com (DWUTKA at marlow.com) Date: Mon, 15 Mar 2004 13:38:34 -0600 Subject: [AccessD] DependentObjects class Message-ID: <2F8793082E00D4119A1700B0D0216BF802227970@main2.marlow.com> Sounds like a case of withevents. I built an inventory system for a customer, which held a few 'global' classes. One such class was the Inventory itself. When the application started, it created a global Inventory class. Then, whenever I had a form that utilized the Inventory, instead of using separate code, I set a 'withevents' reference to the global Inventory class. That way, I not only could use the Inventory Classes prebuilt code to display inventory, but I could also sink the 'InventoryUpdated' event, in every form that used Inventory. By using the global Inventory class to update inventory, I would simply raise the 'InventoryUpdated' event, to alert any and all open forms that inventory has been changed. Drew -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of John W. Colby Sent: Wednesday, March 10, 2004 11:11 PM To: AccessD Subject: [AccessD] DependentObjects class I am working on a dependentobjects class, i.e. a class with a collection which holds objects (classes) where the control or form is dependent on the current control. Combo A changes. Combo B uses Combo A to filter itself. Combo B is "dependent" on combo A and must be requeried whenever Combo A changes. There is a case where two combos on a form may display data from the same table. For example two combos both display cities from the cities lookup table. If Combo A NotInList adds a new city. Combo B needs to requery in order to display that new city if necessary. However if Combo B adds the city, then Combo A needs to requery. Obviously if we add combo A to combo B's DependentObject collection and we add Combo B to Combo A's dependent object collection, then we start an endless loop where A requeries B which requeries A which requeries B... This is a case where I programmed a solution working but it was ugly. How would you solve this problem? John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From jimdettman at earthlink.net Mon Mar 15 13:58:16 2004 From: jimdettman at earthlink.net (Jim Dettman) Date: Mon, 15 Mar 2004 14:58:16 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Framework Discussion - Dependent Objects In-Reply-To: Message-ID: John, << Our wrapper allows us to do nothing more than add custom functionality to THAT wrapped object. >> So you'll end up with lots of classes, unless I mis-understanding your intent. For example let's start with a base text box class. In a typical app, you can have text boxes that can be used for: 1. Text input 2. Input of a short date 3. Input of a short date and time #2 and #3 are variations of #1 and contain some of the same behaviors and methods. So at the frame work level, I'm going to provide three classes or I'm going to do one class (text box) and overload it with properties to accomplish #2 and #3. But what your not doing is starting with #1, then creating #2 and #3 based on #1. I'm also assuming that it's not your intent to do a lot of instance specific behaviors. For example, if I want to add a popup calendar to all my text boxes that work with a date, I can't do that easily if I stuck with a single text box class and handled date/time issues at the instance level. In that case, I should not have bothered with a framework at all, but instead create tools to manipulate instance specific items. In fact now that I say that, I'm wondering how you would roll out new versions of the Framework. If I as a developer have no choice but to modify your classes (because it's a single layer) and you distribute a new version, how can I easily implement it? The only alternative is to provide a large number of hook procedures that your class calls to find out if the developer wants to change anything. Anyway, excluding the last two options, this means that if you go the three class route, you are coding the "text box" behavior (i.e. background color when active) in three places, thus eliminating some of the benefits of doing it in the first place. If you do one class, you end up with a lot of code, some of which you might not always be need. It also increases the complexity of the text box class. Even with the limited OO capabilities of Access, there are still design issues in how to approach a framework that will have an impact on performance. The other issue you mentioned (object cleanup) also bears directly on performance, which is what initially prompted my comment. Jim (315) 699-3443 jimdettman at earthlink.net -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of John W. Colby Sent: Saturday, March 13, 2004 8:43 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] Framework Discussion - Dependent Objects Jim, What I think that you are forgetting is that VFP. like .NET is a system with true inheritance. Access is not. Thus with VFP or .Net you can get bogged down with classes inheriting classes inheriting classes inheriting classes inheriting.. And of course all that inheritance has to be "built up" as the classes load. Access has none of that. Nothing inherits anything. What a framework in Access really provides is nothing more than objects (classes) written for a specific purpose, to perform specific processing. Often they are wrappers around objects that have no classes of their own allowing us to "simulate" in a very crude sense inheriting the object, but the "inheritance chain" comes to a screeching halt immediately unless of course you were to write a wrapper to a wrapper to a wrapper. Our wrapper allows us to do nothing more than add custom functionality to THAT wrapped object. Of course a class can instantiate another class to obtain encapsulated services that it needs but that is hardly the same thing as what you are referring to. In the end, my current framework has... 45 classes (I just went and counted them). Of that number, 17 are wrappers to the various controls and the form. The rest are "services" of one type or another - FTP, HTTP, Zip, Unzip, Enigma, MD5, Sysvars, Timer, AuditTrail, DependentObjects etc. Access is NOT a true OO environment. It has objects, of which you manipulate methods and properties, however true inheritance is virtually nonexistent. The issues that you refer to with VFP and .NET simply cannot occur in Access because of that. Believe me, given my druthers I'd take true inheritance and deal with the speed issue that might occur. John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Jim Dettman Sent: Saturday, March 13, 2004 5:38 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] Framework Discussion - Dependent Objects John, <> "Useable" was probably a poor choice of words on my part. I was really thinking in terms of features. I slid into "useable" in the sense that by the time you add everything that everyone might want, you've got everything except the kitchen sink. << Would you notice an additional 1/50th of a second for the framework to do it's thing?>> I only mention it because as you get further down the road and into composite classes, there gets to be a design decision in regards to how a framework should be structured for what offers. The out come of that can have a large impact on performance. This is one of the hot button issues with VFP frameworks, which you know are quite a bit farther down the framework road. Considering that VFP is a true compile and it's an issue there, I don't see how it could not be an issue at some point with VBA. Jim (315) 699-3443 jimdettman at earthlink.net -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From martyconnelly at shaw.ca Mon Mar 15 14:01:29 2004 From: martyconnelly at shaw.ca (MartyConnelly) Date: Mon, 15 Mar 2004 12:01:29 -0800 Subject: [AccessD] question on normalization References: Message-ID: <40560B99.5010809@shaw.ca> I have code for a soap version but the eraserver.com service has gone down. Overuse? Probably. The commercial USPS site uses a proprietary WinInet DLL with a HTTP post request. You have to register for the service get license keys and is a bit awkward to use. http://www.usps.com/zip4/ http://www.usps.com/webtools/address.htm Here is code for another commercial site www.cdyne.com cost $0.01 per inquiry. There is a test service and I think you are limited to a certain number of free calls per day You can use XPath or nodes to parse out the xml returned. Sub test() Dim strOut As String Dim strAddress As String Dim strCity As String Dim strState As String Dim strZip As String Dim strXMLAll As String strOut = "" strXMLAll = "" strAddress = "3 Quixote Court" strCity = "Santa Rosab" strState = "CA" strZip = "95409" strOut = AddrCorrect(strAddress, strCity, strState, strZip, strXMLAll) Debug.Print strOut Debug.Print "*" & strZip & "*" End Sub Public Function AddrCorrect(ByRef address As String, ByRef city As String, ByRef state As String, ByRef zip As String, ByRef strXMLAll As String, Optional LicenseKey As String) As String Dim oXMLHTTP As MSXML2.XMLHTTP LicenseKey = 0 ' Call the web service to get an XML document Set oXMLHTTP = New MSXML2.XMLHTTP oXMLHTTP.Open "POST", _ "http://ws.cdyne.com/psaddress/addresslookup.asmx/CheckAddress", False oXMLHTTP.setRequestHeader "Content-Type", _ "application/x-www-form-urlencoded" oXMLHTTP.send "AddressLine=" & URLEncode(address) & "&ZipCode=" & URLEncode(zip) & "&City=" & URLEncode(city) & "&StateAbbrev=" & URLEncode(state) & "&LicenseKey=" & URLEncode(LicenseKey) If oXMLHTTP.status <> 200 Then MsgBox "Service Unavailable. Try again later" Set oXMLHTTP = Nothing Exit Function End If Dim oDOM As MSXML2.DOMDocument Set oDOM = oXMLHTTP.responseXML Debug.Print oXMLHTTP.responseText strXMLAll = oXMLHTTP.responseText Dim oNL As MSXML2.IXMLDOMNodeList Dim oCN As MSXML2.IXMLDOMNode Dim oCC As MSXML2.IXMLDOMNode Set oNL = oDOM.getElementsByTagName("Address") For Each oCN In oNL For Each oCC In oCN.childNodes Select Case LCase(oCC.nodeName) Case "serviceerror" If CBool(oCC.Text) = True Then AddrCorrect = "Service Error. Try again Later" GoTo leaveit End If Case "addresserror" If CBool(oCC.Text) = True Then AddrCorrect = "Address uncorrectable." GoTo leaveit End If Case "servicecurrentlyunavailable" If CBool(oCC.Text) = True Then AddrCorrect = "Service Unavailable. Try again Later" GoTo leaveit End If Case "addressfoundbemorespecific" If CBool(oCC.Text) = True Then AddrCorrect = "Address Found. Be more Specific." GoTo leaveit End If Case "deliveryaddress" address = oCC.Text Case "city" city = oCC.Text Case "stateabbrev" state = oCC.Text Case "zipcode" zip = oCC.Text End Select Next Next AddrCorrect = "OK" ' Address corrected leaveit: Set oCC = Nothing Set oCN = Nothing Set oNL = Nothing Set oDOM = Nothing Set oXMLHTTP = Nothing End Function Public Function URLEncode(inS As String) As String Dim i As Long Dim inC, outC As String For i = 1 To Len(inS) inC = Mid(inS, i, 1) Select Case inC Case " " outC = "+" Case "&" outC = "%38" Case "!" To "~" outC = inC Case Else outC = "%" + Right("00" + Hex(Asc(inC)), 2) End Select URLEncode = URLEncode + outC Next i End Function What it returns. test
false false 3 QUIXOTE CT 1 99 B SANTA ROSA CA 95409-4311 false C066 SONOMA 03 4 f9540943114f true Z22876 S 06 06097 056996 -122.644996 38.467710 -122.644595 38.467310 -122.6447955 38.467510 7362 7500 7500 084 PST true 707 90 97 SANTA ROSA 4013 1526.00 3 QUIXOTE CT
OK *95409-4311* John W. Colby wrote: >uhhh... do you have code to do this? I am fresh out of soap, my 3 year old >son was playing with it and... well.... let's just say he's one clean little >boy! ;-) > >John W. Colby >www.ColbyConsulting.com > >-----Original Message----- >From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com >[mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of MartyConnelly >Sent: Thursday, March 11, 2004 9:30 PM >To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving >Subject: Re: [AccessD] question on normalization > > >There are three or four good web services like USPS that provide this >info, live via a soap call, of course you need an internet connection. >You can interrogate these services from Access with just XML and a SOAP >envelope over HTTP. You dont need all the soap toolkit jazz unless you >want to write the proxy classes. >They will also verify that the address is valid too. Such as street name >spelling and number range. You can also buy the info via quarterly CD's. > > >John W. Colby wrote: > > > >>David, >> >>Did you fill in this table with which Zips were in which town etc.? Or is >>there a standard db out there somewhere with this stuff? >> >>John W. Colby >>www.ColbyConsulting.com >> >>-----Original Message----- >>From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com >>[mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of David McAfee >>Sent: Thursday, March 11, 2004 3:49 PM >>To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' >>Subject: RE: [AccessD] question on normalization >> >> >>I our last system, we had a Zipcode table with 5 fields (and 45K+ records): >>ZipID (PK Autonumber) >>ZipCode (text,5) >>City (text, 30) >>State (text, 2) >>DefaultCity (yes/no) >> >>I would look up a city based on zipcode entry. One of three results could >>happen: >> >>0 records returned: Prompt to check if zipcode entry (later evolved into >>adding new city) >>1 record returned: populate city and state onto form >> >> >> >> >>>1 record returned: pop up a mini screen with a list box showing all of the >>> >>> >>> >>> >>cities using that zipcode. The default city is selected with the OK button >>having focus. >> >>I would store every part of the address together for a given address. >> >>In our new system, we have the similar set up as above, but we only keep >> >> >the > > >>ZipID (ID, for the city, state and Zip) with the address. >>The extra joins needed now are a bit of a pita, so I could imagine how much >>more it would be to use a junction table containing an CSZid, CityID, Stid >> >> >& > > >>ZipID. >> >>I guess it all boils down to what level of normalization do you want to go? >>3rd, 4th? >> >>Oh, btw, are you only dealing with US addresses or INTL addresses too? >>Because that will add some twists too ;) >>David >> >> >> >>-----Original Message----- >>From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com >>[mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of John Clark >>Sent: Thursday, March 11, 2004 12:02 PM >>To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com >>Subject: [AccessD] question on normalization >> >> >>quick question: >> >>I have a program that will be populated with a 'regional' group of >>people--this meaning that everyone's address will be within this county. >>So I am thinking that I can speed up entry, by using a drop-down for zip >>codes and filling the town name from that. My question is, would it be >>proper to have a separate table for town and another for zip code, even >>though zip code would be a single field table? The town table would have >>three tables, with one being a link to the Zip Code table, and the Zip >>Code table would have a single field--"Zip". >> >>Thanks >> >>John W Clark >> >> >>-- >>_______________________________________________ >>AccessD mailing list >>AccessD at databaseadvisors.com >>http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd >>Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com >>-- >>_______________________________________________ >>AccessD mailing list >>AccessD at databaseadvisors.com >>http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd >>Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com >> >> >> >> >> >> >> > >-- >Marty Connelly >Victoria, B.C. >Canada > > > >-- >_______________________________________________ >AccessD mailing list >AccessD at databaseadvisors.com >http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd >Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > > -- Marty Connelly Victoria, B.C. Canada From DWUTKA at marlow.com Mon Mar 15 15:22:52 2004 From: DWUTKA at marlow.com (DWUTKA at marlow.com) Date: Mon, 15 Mar 2004 15:22:52 -0600 Subject: [AccessD] date function Message-ID: <2F8793082E00D4119A1700B0D0216BF802227971@main2.marlow.com> Just a thought, this may be due to the fact that Date() is a special function. For example, If you say: i=Val(SomeVariable) i is now the numeric value of 'SomeVariable'. However, you can't say: Val(SomeVariable)=i Just doesn't work. However, you CAN say: Date=SomeDateVariable Which goes and sets the date on your machine. The odd behavior you have seen may be related to Time(), Date(), and Now()'s capability to do that. Drew -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Dan Waters Sent: Thursday, March 11, 2004 8:35 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: [AccessD] date function John, In every database I've made on every PC, if I type in Date(), the two parentheses disappear and the word Date is left (in VBA code). In the source property for a control, if I typed in =Date(), what I typed in always stayed, but occasionally (and unrepeatedly), the function didn't work. I found out that that the =Now() function always worked if typed into a control's source property. So I quite typing =Date() into the source property of a control and instead call the following function which is stored in a standard module: Public Function CurrentDate() As Date CurrentDate = CDate(DatePart("m", Now()) & "/" & DatePart("d", Now()) _ & "/" & DatePart("yyyy", Now())) End Function HTH, Dan Waters -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of John Eget Sent: Thursday, March 11, 2004 6:39 PM To: AccessD at databaseadvisors.com Subject: [AccessD] date function I had the oddest thing happen today, My databases do not show =Date(), but only on the new HPs in work. Has anyone come across this before? John -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From DWUTKA at marlow.com Mon Mar 15 15:28:27 2004 From: DWUTKA at marlow.com (DWUTKA at marlow.com) Date: Mon, 15 Mar 2004 15:28:27 -0600 Subject: [AccessD] Vendor Table Message-ID: <2F8793082E00D4119A1700B0D0216BF802227972@main2.marlow.com> I would say the PO table, since those terms would be unique to the PO. If you want to get fancy, you could remember the Vendor's or Buyer's preferences, and use that as a default for a new PO. Drew -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Hollis,Virginia Sent: Friday, March 12, 2004 11:48 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: [AccessD] Vendor Table Ok, that makes sense. Where would the Payment Terms, Ship Via, Freight Terms go - which table? Virginia -----Original Message----- From: DWUTKA at marlow.com [mailto:DWUTKA at marlow.com] Sent: Friday, March 12, 2004 10:17 AM To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: RE: [AccessD] Vendor Table Sounds like a PO system. The PurchaseOrder table would be the 'tie in'. You would have a PO Number, then a buyerID, VendorID, and your items. Depends on how complex you want to make it, you should probably have a PO Line Items table. Drew -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Hollis,Virginia Sent: Friday, March 12, 2004 9:01 AM To: 'accessd at databaseadvisors.com' Subject: [AccessD] Vendor Table I am starting a new database - that seems fairly standard, but it is my first time with this type.... This database is to track vendor information & requests. I know I need a table with vendor information, one for the buyer, & one for contacts. The problem is I can't think of how to tie them all together, especially the buyer & requestor with the vendor. The buyer completes the form with all the vendor information, regular fields - name, address, terms. I guess my question is what do I put in a Main? table to tie all the information together? It is mostly just a form completed by the buyer and sent to another department for entry into the suppliers database. But the 2nd department wants to track the requests (where I come in). Virginia -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From DWUTKA at marlow.com Mon Mar 15 15:30:25 2004 From: DWUTKA at marlow.com (DWUTKA at marlow.com) Date: Mon, 15 Mar 2004 15:30:25 -0600 Subject: [AccessD] Framework Discussion - Who's following this Message-ID: <2F8793082E00D4119A1700B0D0216BF802227973@main2.marlow.com> I was actually assuming that was the purpose of your 'Framework'. Just trying to provide an easier method to link everything together. Drew -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of John W. Colby Sent: Friday, March 12, 2004 4:14 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] Framework Discussion - Who's following this Ooooh I'm gonna have to work through that since I don't understand what you are up to. I'm assuming that we are talking interfaces here? John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com From reuben at gfconsultants.com Mon Mar 15 15:31:05 2004 From: reuben at gfconsultants.com (Reuben Cummings) Date: Mon, 15 Mar 2004 16:31:05 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Hyperlinks for the BEU Message-ID: Anyone know what makes a hyperlink different than a memo? What I mean is this: the value for a hyperlink and a memo is 12 (that's 12 for both). However, the attributes are different. What I'm after is the differences that define one as a hyperlink and the other as a memo. Working on a new data type for the BEU and could use your help. Thanks. Reuben Cummings GFC, LLC phone: 812.523.1017 email: reuben at gfconsultants.com From DWUTKA at marlow.com Mon Mar 15 15:41:03 2004 From: DWUTKA at marlow.com (DWUTKA at marlow.com) Date: Mon, 15 Mar 2004 15:41:03 -0600 Subject: [AccessD] Vendor Table Message-ID: <2F8793082E00D4119A1700B0D0216BF802227974@main2.marlow.com> Hmmmm....I'm getting a little confused at the original 'intent'. Let me see if I am thinking this through correctly. Al needs a dozen widgets. So Al becomes the 'requestor'. Frank is the company's 'purchaser', so Frank is the Buyer. Widgets-R-Us is one of the 'Vendors' that Frank can use, to purchase the widgets that Al wants. Is that close? If that's the case, you need to take a look at the people involved. Requestors and Purchasers (in the example above) are people in the same company, so they should have the same information. So I would put them in tblEmployees. I am kind of roughing this around my companies 'PO' system. Technically all employee's can be Requestors, so any table that would need to know who is requesting something would have RequestorID, but that would be the EmployeeID foriegn key. However, only certain employee's would be Buyers, and each buyer (in my case) actually purchases based on the type of the purchase. So I would then have a PurchaseType table, to list the various 'purchase types', and then have a many to many table to link the buyers/purchasers to the types they handle (assuming there is possible overlap in each direction). Vendors on the other hand, could be put into one table. With a VendorID, Point of contact, etc. etc. I would then make a tblPurchaseOrder. Have the Requestor fill that out (So his/her ID would be recorded in the tblPurchaseOrder Record). Have the Requestor fill out the PO, including the Purchase type. Then, the buyer's would be able to 'view' the Purchase Orders that they are linked too through the Many to Many table. Does this make sense, or am I starting to babble....had a long week (My RAID 5 crashed, spent all last week getting my data off of it!) ARG! Drew -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Hollis,Virginia Sent: Saturday, March 13, 2004 6:59 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: [AccessD] Vendor Table Would this be correct? tbl_VendorMain VendorID ContactID RequestorID BuyerID TypeID DateRequested tbl_Vendor VendorID Vendor info stuff tbl_Type TypeID Type stuff etc. OR Should tbl_Vendor have CustomerID? -----Original Message----- From: DWUTKA at marlow.com [mailto:DWUTKA at marlow.com] Sent: Friday, March 12, 2004 10:17 AM To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: RE: [AccessD] Vendor Table Sounds like a PO system. The PurchaseOrder table would be the 'tie in'. You would have a PO Number, then a buyerID, VendorID, and your items. Depends on how complex you want to make it, you should probably have a PO Line Items table. Drew -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Hollis,Virginia Sent: Friday, March 12, 2004 9:01 AM To: 'accessd at databaseadvisors.com' Subject: [AccessD] Vendor Table I am starting a new database - that seems fairly standard, but it is my first time with this type.... This database is to track vendor information & requests. I know I need a table with vendor information, one for the buyer, & one for contacts. The problem is I can't think of how to tie them all together, especially the buyer & requestor with the vendor. The buyer completes the form with all the vendor information, regular fields - name, address, terms. I guess my question is what do I put in a Main? table to tie all the information together? It is mostly just a form completed by the buyer and sent to another department for entry into the suppliers database. But the 2nd department wants to track the requests (where I come in). Virginia -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From DWUTKA at marlow.com Mon Mar 15 15:44:41 2004 From: DWUTKA at marlow.com (DWUTKA at marlow.com) Date: Mon, 15 Mar 2004 15:44:41 -0600 Subject: [AccessD] Set up tables - Please Help Message-ID: <2F8793082E00D4119A1700B0D0216BF802227975@main2.marlow.com> Virginia, I think you are confusing Vendor with Purchase Order. A Vendor is just a peice of a Purchase Order, not the other way around. Drew -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Hollis,Virginia Sent: Saturday, March 13, 2004 10:46 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: [AccessD] Set up tables - Please Help tbl_Vendor contains all the data for the vendor; address, company name, etc. tbl_VendorMain could really be named tbl_RequestMain. tbl_VendorMain is where I thought I would store the combination of the data - VendorID, ContactID, BuyerID, RequestorID, DateRequested. -----Original Message----- From: Susan Harkins [mailto:ssharkins at bellsouth.net] Sent: Saturday, March 13, 2004 10:38 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: [AccessD] Set up tables - Please Help What's the difference between tbl_Vendor and tbl_VendorMain? Susan H. I have one table for each - tbl_Buyer, tbl_Contacts, tbl_Requestor, tbl_TypeBusiness, tbl_Vendor, tbl_VendorMain, tbl_Accounts. Tables buyer, vendor contacts, requestor store just the typical name, phone number, etc. -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From DWUTKA at marlow.com Mon Mar 15 15:52:28 2004 From: DWUTKA at marlow.com (DWUTKA at marlow.com) Date: Mon, 15 Mar 2004 15:52:28 -0600 Subject: [AccessD] Unzipping files Programmatically Message-ID: <2F8793082E00D4119A1700B0D0216BF802227976@main2.marlow.com> Get a registered version of Winzip. You can do all sorts of things then. Drew -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of ggonzalez at cccis.com Sent: Monday, March 15, 2004 12:17 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Unzipping files Programmatically I am tying to unzip files programmatically, but don't know where to start. Can anyone point me in the right direction TIA, Gumaro -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From prodevmg at yahoo.com Mon Mar 15 15:56:06 2004 From: prodevmg at yahoo.com (Lonnie Johnson) Date: Mon, 15 Mar 2004 13:56:06 -0800 (PST) Subject: [AccessD] Terminal Server and Access XP Message-ID: <20040315215606.23755.qmail@web20412.mail.yahoo.com> Users are getting a "Run-Time error 13, type mis match" when the application tries to cycle through some controls with the following: Dim ctl as Control For Each ctl in Me.Controls... This works fine in A97 and XP on regular machines. It even works for the administrator on a terminal server machine, but not regular users on terminal server. Anyone have a clue????????? Lonnie Johnson ProDev, Professional Development of MS Access Databases Visit me at ==> http://www.prodev.us Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Mail - More reliable, more storage, less spam From stuart at lexacorp.com.pg Mon Mar 15 16:00:05 2004 From: stuart at lexacorp.com.pg (Stuart McLachlan) Date: Tue, 16 Mar 2004 08:00:05 +1000 Subject: [AccessD] Hyperlinks for the BEU In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <4056B405.28203.10F9D3@localhost> On 15 Mar 2004 at 16:31, Reuben Cummings wrote: > Anyone know what makes a hyperlink different than a memo? > > What I mean is this: the value for a hyperlink and a memo is 12 (that's 12 > for both). However, the attributes are different. > > What I'm after is the differences that define one as a hyperlink and the > other as a memo. > > Working on a new data type for the BEU and could use your help. AFAIK, they're just ordinary memo fields with an attribute set DAO.FieldAttributeEnum = dbHyperlinkField (&H8000) -- Lexacorp Ltd http://www.lexacorp.com.pg Information Technology Consultancy, Software Development,System Support. From DWUTKA at marlow.com Mon Mar 15 16:04:20 2004 From: DWUTKA at marlow.com (DWUTKA at marlow.com) Date: Mon, 15 Mar 2004 16:04:20 -0600 Subject: [AccessD] Terminal Server and Access XP Message-ID: <2F8793082E00D4119A1700B0D0216BF802227978@main2.marlow.com> Any missing references? Drew -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Lonnie Johnson Sent: Monday, March 15, 2004 3:56 PM To: 'MS-ACCESS-L at lists.missouri.edu'; AccessDevelopers; ms_access; AccessD solving' Subject: [AccessD] Terminal Server and Access XP Users are getting a "Run-Time error 13, type mis match" when the application tries to cycle through some controls with the following: Dim ctl as Control For Each ctl in Me.Controls... This works fine in A97 and XP on regular machines. It even works for the administrator on a terminal server machine, but not regular users on terminal server. Anyone have a clue????????? Lonnie Johnson ProDev, Professional Development of MS Access Databases Visit me at ==> http://www.prodev.us Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Mail - More reliable, more storage, less spam -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From stuart at lexacorp.com.pg Mon Mar 15 16:39:47 2004 From: stuart at lexacorp.com.pg (Stuart McLachlan) Date: Tue, 16 Mar 2004 08:39:47 +1000 Subject: [AccessD] Unzipping files Programmatically In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <4056BD53.18391.3552B2@localhost> On 15 Mar 2004 at 12:16, ggonzalez at cccis.com wrote: > > I am tying to unzip files programmatically, but don't know where to start. > Can anyone point me in the right direction > Either: Grab Winzip Ver 9 and it's Command Line Support Addon (shareware)- then unzip with a SHELL command. or Grab zLib.dll (free) from http://www.gzip.org/zlib/ Then you can eiother write your declarations (you will need to look at the C header file and do a bit of translation) or grab a wrapper or a class from: http://www.paradoxes.info/code/ZipExtractionClass.html http://www.planet-source- code.com/vb/scripts/ShowCode.asp?txtCodeId=42297&lngWId=1 http://www.frez.co.uk/freecode.htm#zlibwrapper -- Lexacorp Ltd http://www.lexacorp.com.pg Information Technology Consultancy, Software Development,System Support. From jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com Mon Mar 15 20:33:41 2004 From: jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com (John W. Colby) Date: Mon, 15 Mar 2004 21:33:41 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Framework Discussion - Dependent Objects In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Jim, > So you'll end up with lots of classes, unless I misunderstanding your intent. For example let's start with a base text box class. In a typical app, you can have text boxes that can be used for: 1. Text input 2. Input of a short date 3. Input of a short date and time. #2 and #3 are variations of #1 and contain some of the same behaviors and methods. So at the frame work level, I'm going to provide three classes or I'm going to do one class (text box) and overload it with properties to accomplish #2 and #3. But what your not doing is starting with #1, then creating #2 and #3 based on #1. Lets back up a minute and discuss this from a logical perspective. 1) Access has no inheritance. No overloading. No none of that stuff. 2) A text box has ... 66 properties THAT CAN BE SEEN FROM THE PROPERTIES DIALOG. So, as things CURRENTLY stand, you do NOT take a text box class and inherit it, or overload it or any of the rest of that stuff. However what you DO is take a text box and mess around with those 66 properties, some at design time only, others through code as well... and cause the text box to do various things for you. Are you happy? Most developers are happy and they go about their merry lives programming that set of 66 properties (of which some are actually events). That's all they have, that's all they're ever going to have. They never think to ask for more because as we all know, you can't inherit the text box so you can't extend it's functionality! WRONG! By building a class wrapper to the text box control object, I can add custom properties, methods and behaviors! Isn't that after all precisely what you are doing with the built-in class for forms? Writing custom code and event handlers to extend the built-in functionality of a generic form and turn it into Jim's super-duper wonder form for .... uh... taking orders. Of course I am not magically turning Access into FoxPro or .NET. I am NOT magically giving you inheritance or "overloading" or any of that stuff. This is ACCESS, NOT POXPRO. >I'm also assuming that it's not your intent to do a lot of instance specific behaviors. For example, if I want to add a popup calendar to all my text boxes that work with a date, I can't do that easily if I stuck with a single text box class and handled date/time issues at the instance level. That is EXACTLY MY INTENTION. Except that I intend to provide properties, methods and behaviors to any instance THAT NEEDS THAT. If a popup calendar floats your boat, build one and tie it in to the text box class. Have a UseCalendar property that you set the "turns on" using that calendar for exactly the instances where you want a calendar. However it is that you managed to program the text box to use the calendar in some form somewhere, that same exact code will work in the text box class. Except that once added to the class it is available to any text box anywhere in the app. Set your UseCalendar property and boom... that text box will use the calendar. This isn't magic, just engineering effort applied to the system rather than to one control on one form. Lets look at things a little differently! I lived in Mexico for 5 years. When you wanted a telephone line, the phone company took an order. They then (eventually) sent a crew to PULL LINE TO YOUR HOUSE. They did not put a cable full of 1000 wires down the street, they pulled ONE PAIR of wires for as far as they needed from the nearest switch to your house! AND BOY DID THEY CHARGE YOU A TON OF MONEY!!! Hello? Is anyone home? In the US, when people start building homes along a road, the phone company pulls a cable the size of your arm full of twisted pairs. When a development is built, the phone company pulls a cable the size of your arm to the development. The phone company in the US is to telephones what my framework is to Access development. The phone company in Mexico was the average Access developer pulling some service to exactly one control on one form, whenever they needed that service. And charging the client A TON OF MONEY FOR THE PRIVILEGE! Now, it is of course possible that there is ONE HOUSE way up on the top of a mountain, with a National forest all around it. There will never be a use for 1000 twisted pairs, and even in the US, the phone company will pull a FEW pairs of wires up there. I am not going to say that my framework will have every single service that anyone can throw at it. There are things that are needed ONE TIME and it makes no sense to put that in the framework. Do that ONE THING in that ONE FORM, embedded in that form's built in class and be done with it. If there is something that is just used all of the time, then YES, throw that in the framework. It will be available to every text box (or combo, or whatever) at all times. Turn it on/off (if you need to do so) on a case by case basis (or Application by application, or form by form). >If you do one class, you end up with a lot of code, some of which you might not always be need. Uh... yep! >It also increases the complexity of the text box class uh... yep! How many of those 66 properties of the text box do YOU actually program on the average text box instance? 10? Probably not even that. Are you saying that Microsoft should take out the rest of them "to reduce complexity" or so that there's not a lot of code that you don't use every instance? Or are you perhaps telling ME THAT I SHOULD NOT DO THIS but it is just fine that Microsoft does it? I used to have people tell me that "Oooooh your framework is more than 5 mbytes". ROTFL. I program Office for crying out loud. If I write code for Access, and use Word and Outlook, those three apps will take somewhere around 50 megabytes PLUS another 50 megabytes for Windows 2K PLUS another 5-15 megabytes for the application. And I am supposed to stay awake at night trying to figure out how I can reduce my bodacious 5 mbytes? I DON'T THINK SO! > Even with the limited OO capabilities of Access, there are still design issues in how to approach a framework that will have an impact on performance. The other issue you mentioned (object cleanup) also bears directly on performance, which is what initially prompted my comment. In the time that the hard disk takes on average to spin some piece of data under the heads (never mind moving the heads to that track, or reading it into memory) Access can completely clean up ALL of the hundreds of class instances that may be loaded!!!!! Cleanup doesn't involve getting out the vacuum cleaner and going after the dust mites in the corner. "unloading a class" doesn't mean putting it back out on the disk. Closing any recordsets (which have to be done anyway, framework or no), setting the pointers to objects to nothing, hands the memory back to the VB garbage collector and I am done. How long does it take to set 5 pointers to nothing? How long to set 10,000 pointers to nothing? At 2 gbit clock on an AMD processor... considerably less time than it takes you to blink your eyes. Stick around if you are interested in performance. I have never seen my framework impact performance in a meaningful way, but you will have a ringside seat to see for yourself. It is doing things that you are going to do anyway (in terms of behaviors) so it's not like you can avoid those penalties if you code that same behavior yourself. There are those who abandon Access because it doesn't do FoxPro (or .NET) like things. I am making no effort to prevent their leaving. I can't give you a framework that you can "inherit" and layer your own (framework) functionality on in a .NET like way. That simply isn't an option and it is not my fault, it is not a choice I make, it is not within my control. I just do what I can do with what I am given to work with. I do firmly believe however that what I am doing is waaaay more than "the average Access developer", even one who builds a library of functions to be called from event stubs in his forms. What I can do is to extend the functionality of any of the built in controls to provide consistent, available functionality that developers currently hand / hard code on a control by control / form by form basis, and make that functionality available anywhere it is needed, all of the time, just by setting properties. Kind of like the controls already do with the stuff they have built in. If that doesn't do anything for you I can appreciate that and encourage you to look elsewhere for your own solution. John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Jim Dettman Sent: Monday, March 15, 2004 2:58 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] Framework Discussion - Dependent Objects John, << Our wrapper allows us to do nothing more than add custom functionality to THAT wrapped object. >> So you'll end up with lots of classes, unless I mis-understanding your intent. For example let's start with a base text box class. In a typical app, you can have text boxes that can be used for: 1. Text input 2. Input of a short date 3. Input of a short date and time #2 and #3 are variations of #1 and contain some of the same behaviors and methods. So at the frame work level, I'm going to provide three classes or I'm going to do one class (text box) and overload it with properties to accomplish #2 and #3. But what your not doing is starting with #1, then creating #2 and #3 based on #1. I'm also assuming that it's not your intent to do a lot of instance specific behaviors. For example, if I want to add a popup calendar to all my text boxes that work with a date, I can't do that easily if I stuck with a single text box class and handled date/time issues at the instance level. In that case, I should not have bothered with a framework at all, but instead create tools to manipulate instance specific items. In fact now that I say that, I'm wondering how you would roll out new versions of the Framework. If I as a developer have no choice but to modify your classes (because it's a single layer) and you distribute a new version, how can I easily implement it? The only alternative is to provide a large number of hook procedures that your class calls to find out if the developer wants to change anything. Anyway, excluding the last two options, this means that if you go the three class route, you are coding the "text box" behavior (i.e. background color when active) in three places, thus eliminating some of the benefits of doing it in the first place. If you do one class, you end up with a lot of code, some of which you might not always be need. It also increases the complexity of the text box class. Even with the limited OO capabilities of Access, there are still design issues in how to approach a framework that will have an impact on performance. The other issue you mentioned (object cleanup) also bears directly on performance, which is what initially prompted my comment. Jim (315) 699-3443 jimdettman at earthlink.net From jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com Mon Mar 15 20:50:00 2004 From: jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com (John W. Colby) Date: Mon, 15 Mar 2004 21:50:00 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] DependentObjects class In-Reply-To: <023f01c40ac8$a9470f80$6501a8c0@rock> Message-ID: >On a given form I have N checkboxes or option buttons or whatever. Beside these (some subset of all the controls), I have a DateUpdated field -- classic case of Dependent Object. But I want more than that. I want to write to a table ValuesChanged, automatically (i.e. class behavior), sending the table name, the field name, the userID and the dateTime. And have this happen as a simple result of changing said control. As it happens I am working on this exact functionality. However... in the end it didn't make sense to place this functionality in each control class but rather to write a class that does this. I started out adding a couple of properties to each control class and going down that road. It turns out as things developed that having a set of tables worked better than a single table. Just my take of course but I normalized the process, tblTableName, tblField, tblTransaction etc. Once I got into the analysis of the problem it seemed I wanted "transactional" information, i.e. workstation, transaction date, form, control, things like that that I did not want to have to put in every change record. Things are never simple and in the simplest case a single table design was enough, but as soon as you got to real life with forms that displayed (and allowed edits to) 2 or more tables then the single table design just became horribly inefficient. So this is a good example of where perhaps the functionality does not belong at the control level but rather in a "service class". Instantiate the class in the framework's form class, pass in the controls that you wish to monitor, and the service class deals with it. Remember that more than one class can sink events for a given control. It turns out however that you really don't want to do this on control events because of the problems with the user "backing out" or escaping out of changes, all of which cause no events to fire!!! Access is incredibly nasty when it comes to such things! You really want to use a hand full of form events that call methods of the service class requesting the service class to poll it's monitored controls for old / new values (depending on the event). By building a service class that monitors specific controls you can also do things like "watch address controls" to cause a process to run only if the address changes. Just load an instance and tell it to watch "these 5 controls" and raise an event if any of them changed at the time the data was stored back in the table. As I said, I am looking at this exact problem. John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Arthur Fuller Sent: Monday, March 15, 2004 3:04 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: [AccessD] DependentObjects class Good answer(s). Now I want to push the envelope a bit, and ensure that the framework can handle it.... On a given form I have N checkboxes or option buttons or whatever. Beside these (some subset of all the controls), I have a DateUpdated field -- classic case of Dependent Object. But I want more than that. I want to write to a table ValuesChanged, automatically (i.e. class behaviour), sending the table name, the field name, the userID and the dateTime. And have this happen as a simple result of changing said control. Arthur -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of John W. Colby Sent: Friday, March 12, 2004 2:11 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] DependentObjects class >Instead, they recommend creating a class that holds both controls as attributes of the class. This may or may not work in VBA, of course. And of course that can be done. However since the framework exists (or will!) and it has a combo class, why not allow any combo to know that something else is dependent on it, and then when it changes go requery anything that is dependent? In addition, in many cases where I have seen this sort of "one combo depends on another's value" thing done, it is IMO frequently the result of bad design at the database level. Yes, but you intentionally chose an example of normalization issues. What about companies / people / employees? As you select a different company in ComboA you want the "choice" of Employees in ComboB to change? What about Companies / payments, companies / invoices, companies... Dependent combos is SO common that it is a frequent "how do I" topic on this very list. >So in that case we're back to the custom class that embeds both combos. Absolutely possible and in fact easy using classes and Withevents. But again, all I have to do is tell the class instance for ComboA that ComboA "is dependent on it" and then whenever ComboA changes it automatically requeries ComboB. If comboC is dependent on ComboB, then when ComboB is requeried by ComboA, ComboB looks in it's dependent objects collection (or class) and requeries all of ITs dependent objects. This is a classic case of a normal framework behavior replacing custom programming. >But I do believe that designing classes that know specifics about other classes (i.e. worst of all is that they must know the name of the other class's instance) is fundamentally incorrect. The class doesn't know anything except it has a collection of objects that it needs to requery!!! No clue at all what the objects are, just that they are in its collection and it needs to call a requery method for each one. In fact the objects can be other combos, other lists, subforms, other open forms... anything in the application that is a class and as a requery method. The DEVELOPER knows that ComboB depends on ComboA and in the form's Open event tells the framework (a specific class instance). Further combos aren't the only objects that can have dependent objects. Basically anything (any control) that can be referenced by the SQL of another control can have dependent objects. A text box can be referenced by a combo so it can have a dependent objects class. Likewise a checkbox, a radio button, ANYTHING that can be referenced by SQL in the recordset for a control or form. Stick around for the discussion, we are about to add that functionality to our "framework" (it isn't a framework yet!) so you can see what I am talking about. John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com From accessd667 at yahoo.com Tue Mar 16 00:42:13 2004 From: accessd667 at yahoo.com (S D) Date: Mon, 15 Mar 2004 22:42:13 -0800 (PST) Subject: [AccessD] Transaction in MS-Access INFO REQUIRED Message-ID: <20040316064213.26974.qmail@web61107.mail.yahoo.com> Hi group, I need info regarding TRANSACTIONS in MS-Access 2000. Specifically about the diffs between MS-Access 2000 and SQL-Server/Oracle. In Oracle / SQL-Server it is possible to roll-back a transaction AFTER : - a system crash; - a network failure; - lost connection to the database; - etc. So can anybody tell me/ point me to a good document where I can read about the possibilities and disabilities of MS-Access 2000 Transactions. TIA Sander Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Mail - More reliable, more storage, less spam From djkr at msn.com Tue Mar 16 01:07:17 2004 From: djkr at msn.com (DJK(John) Robinson) Date: Tue, 16 Mar 2004 07:07:17 -0000 Subject: [AccessD] Transaction in MS-Access INFO REQUIRED In-Reply-To: <20040316064213.26974.qmail@web61107.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <001c01c40b25$511c2130$bf00a8c0@dabsight> There's no transaction log in Access, so no concept of rolling back a transaction after it has been committed. Access transactions do provide atomicity, though, and multiple transactions can be nested or overlapped. HTH a little John > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of S D > Sent: 16 March 2004 06:42 > To: accessd > Subject: [AccessD] Transaction in MS-Access INFO REQUIRED > > > Hi group, > > I need info regarding TRANSACTIONS in MS-Access 2000. > Specifically about the diffs between MS-Access 2000 and > SQL-Server/Oracle. > > In Oracle / SQL-Server it is possible to roll-back a > transaction AFTER : > - a system crash; > - a network failure; > - lost connection to the database; > - etc. > > So can anybody tell me/ point me to a good document where I > can read about the possibilities and disabilities of > MS-Access 2000 Transactions. > > TIA > > Sander > > Do you Yahoo!? > Yahoo! Mail - More reliable, more storage, less spam > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > From gustav at cactus.dk Tue Mar 16 03:09:33 2004 From: gustav at cactus.dk (Gustav Brock) Date: Tue, 16 Mar 2004 10:09:33 +0100 Subject: [AccessD] Memo Locked - Apparently, but not that I can find!!! In-Reply-To: <002d01c3ef36$01999260$1e00a8c0@cheqsoft.local> References: <002d01c3ef36$01999260$1e00a8c0@cheqsoft.local> Message-ID: <1196581313.20040316100933@cactus.dk> Hi David I have a client fighting with this too. Could you be a little more specific on your solution, please? What are you refreshing and when? Which of the advices mentioned in the forum discussion did you implement? As I read it, you update (save) the record at the BeforeUpdate event of the memo field, then Cancel the update and refresh (requery?) the record? /gustav > Thanks John, > That gave me enough to resolve it. > Also Ref http://www.utteraccess.com/forums/access/access605200.html > For anyone else simply doing a refresh unlocks it! > Kind Regards > David > From: John W. Colby > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Sent: Tuesday, February 10, 2004 2:38 AM > Subject: RE: [AccessD] Memo Locked - Apparently, but not that I can find!!! > Memo fields are treated differently than the rest of the fields in a record. > They are simply pointers out to a storage area where the actual memo is > stored. Memos still have the "page locking" issue where if another user is > editing another memo that resides in the same physical page as your memo, > yours will be locked. > John W. Colby > www.ColbyConsulting.com > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Tortise > Sent: Monday, February 09, 2004 5:24 AM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: [AccessD] Memo Locked - Apparently, but not that I can find!!! > Hi > I have a database which intermittently reports memo fields as being locked. > However they are not! Editing the memo field it refuses to update on > attempted save, however text fields still update fine. (!) It is a database > from A2K, that went to A97, back to A2k and now is running (converted) in > A2k3. (Over time!) Repair and compaction makes no difference, neither does > logging off and back on to the windows session. > The same behaviour is exhibited when editing the table as it is from a form. > I'm stumped! > As always any guidance is appreciated. > Kind Regards > David From paul.hartland at fsmail.net Tue Mar 16 05:42:10 2004 From: paul.hartland at fsmail.net (paul.hartland at fsmail.net) Date: Tue, 16 Mar 2004 12:42:10 +0100 (CET) Subject: [AccessD] OT - Internet Explorer 6.0 Message-ID: <12203823.1079437330926.JavaMail.www@wwinf3001> To all, Don?t know where else to turn at the moment, I have Internet Explorer 6.0 (SP1) installed on my PC at home. During the weekend I thought I would look around the net etc, but my page came up blank and no address in the address window. I have a connection to the Internet cause my MSN and Yahoo Messenger are both working fine, however I have no Browser capability. I?m running Windows 98SE, has anyone else ever had this and how I can go about rectifying it. I have tried re-installing IE6 and don?t know what else to do. Sorry for the OT but could really do with having this back up and running ASAP. Thanks in advance for any help. Paul Hartland Freeserve AnyTime - HALF PRICE for the first 3 months - Save ?7.50 a month www.freeserve.com/anytime From gustav at cactus.dk Tue Mar 16 05:43:54 2004 From: gustav at cactus.dk (Gustav Brock) Date: Tue, 16 Mar 2004 12:43:54 +0100 Subject: [AccessD] FMS Total Access Memo Question In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <17315841999.20040316124354@cactus.dk> Hi Terri Well, if all you need is some simple formatting, the MS richtext ocx will do if you add some buttons and associated code. /gustav > Is anybody using this software? I purchased it a few weeks ago and I'm running into some issues of which I was unaware. > My key reason for getting this software was to have the ability to format memo fields and then export them to Word. However, I was unaware of the difficulty in doing this. > Is there some other 3rd party software that allows this functionality? > Thanks for any hints, tips or advice. > Terri Jarus > Director, Contract Support Services > jarus at amerinet-gpo.com > 314-542-1902 From stuart at lexacorp.com.pg Tue Mar 16 06:08:31 2004 From: stuart at lexacorp.com.pg (Stuart McLachlan) Date: Tue, 16 Mar 2004 22:08:31 +1000 Subject: [AccessD] OT - Internet Explorer 6.0 In-Reply-To: <12203823.1079437330926.JavaMail.www@wwinf3001> Message-ID: <40577ADF.25808.319B881@localhost> On 16 Mar 2004 at 12:42, paul.hartland at fsmail.net wrote: > To all, Don?t know where else to turn at the moment, I have Internet > Explorer 6.0 (SP1) installed on my PC at home. During the weekend I > thought I would look around the net etc, but my page came up blank and > no address in the address window. That could just be because your home page in Interent Options | General is set to "about:blank" What happens when you type a URL into the address window >I have a connection to the Internet > cause my MSN and Yahoo Messenger are both working fine, however I have > no Browser capability. > I?m running Windows 98SE, has anyone else ever had this and how I can > go about rectifying it. I have tried re-installing IE6 and don?t know > what else to do. Try installing Mozilla Firefox and using that instead? http://www.mozilla.org/products/firefox/ I've recently switched over to it from IE and I love it. There are lots of things it does much better than IE. -- Lexacorp Ltd http://www.lexacorp.com.pg Information Technology Consultancy, Software Development,System Support. From jarus at amerinet-gpo.com Tue Mar 16 06:21:35 2004 From: jarus at amerinet-gpo.com (Terri Jarus) Date: Tue, 16 Mar 2004 06:21:35 -0600 Subject: [AccessD] FMS Total Access Memo Question Message-ID: There are a lot of memo fields that might need special formatting - bolding, italics, bullets, etc. When I looked into using the richtext ocx, you had to set up buttons for each formatting need. The issue would still be the same since the richtext feature is an ActiveX control and that does not translate to Word - unless you can tell me how to do that. That's FMS' pat answer - ActiveX controls don't translate over to Word. Terri Jarus Director, Contract Support Services jarus at amerinet-gpo.com 314-542-1902 >>> gustav at cactus.dk 03/16/04 05:43AM >>> Hi Terri Well, if all you need is some simple formatting, the MS richtext ocx will do if you add some buttons and associated code. /gustav > Is anybody using this software? I purchased it a few weeks ago and I'm running into some issues of which I was unaware. > My key reason for getting this software was to have the ability to format memo fields and then export them to Word. However, I was unaware of the difficulty in doing this. > Is there some other 3rd party software that allows this functionality? > Thanks for any hints, tips or advice. > Terri Jarus > Director, Contract Support Services > jarus at amerinet-gpo.com > 314-542-1902 -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com --------------------------------------------------------------------------- This email and any files transmitted with it are confidential and intended solely for the use of the individuals or entities to whom they are addressed. If you have received this email in error please return it to the sender, and erase any copies thereof. Copyright 2004 Amerinet 1nc. From HollisVJ at pgdp.usec.com Tue Mar 16 06:27:41 2004 From: HollisVJ at pgdp.usec.com (Hollis,Virginia) Date: Tue, 16 Mar 2004 06:27:41 -0600 Subject: [AccessD] Set up tables - Please Help Message-ID: <618EB4D6DDCDD3119B0A00508B6FD37A0CB0D31B@cntexchange.pgdp.usec.com> This is all taken from a hard copy of the current request form. The buyer completes the vendor request form with the vendor information. The form is used to add the new vendor information into a main database. The form provides the vendors name, billing information, type of business, etc. It does not list any items the company will buy from this vendor. Once the vendor information is added, then the company will issue POs, contracts to the new vendor (not part of this database). They just want to track the requests from the buyers. The form contains a lot of information about the vendor. When I create all the tables and join them to create a form for entering the information, it either comes up blank (no records) or I can't add any new records, one try it kept knocking my query out - I think because it was too long. Virginia -----Original Message----- From: DWUTKA at marlow.com [mailto:DWUTKA at marlow.com] Sent: Monday, March 15, 2004 3:45 PM To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: RE: [AccessD] Set up tables - Please Help Virginia, I think you are confusing Vendor with Purchase Order. A Vendor is just a peice of a Purchase Order, not the other way around. Drew -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Hollis,Virginia Sent: Saturday, March 13, 2004 10:46 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: [AccessD] Set up tables - Please Help tbl_Vendor contains all the data for the vendor; address, company name, etc. tbl_VendorMain could really be named tbl_RequestMain. tbl_VendorMain is where I thought I would store the combination of the data - VendorID, ContactID, BuyerID, RequestorID, DateRequested. -----Original Message----- From: Susan Harkins [mailto:ssharkins at bellsouth.net] Sent: Saturday, March 13, 2004 10:38 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: [AccessD] Set up tables - Please Help What's the difference between tbl_Vendor and tbl_VendorMain? Susan H. I have one table for each - tbl_Buyer, tbl_Contacts, tbl_Requestor, tbl_TypeBusiness, tbl_Vendor, tbl_VendorMain, tbl_Accounts. Tables buyer, vendor contacts, requestor store just the typical name, phone number, etc. -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From paul.hartland at fsmail.net Tue Mar 16 06:46:51 2004 From: paul.hartland at fsmail.net (paul.hartland at fsmail.net) Date: Tue, 16 Mar 2004 13:46:51 +0100 (CET) Subject: [AccessD] OT - Internet Explorer 6.0 Message-ID: <13314141.1079441211190.JavaMail.www@wwinf3001> My homepage is set to www.freeserve.co.uk and if I type a web address in I get the lovely little blue bar for about 5 minutes before saying cannot be found....wouldn't mind but I'm on Broadband..... Message date : Mar 16 2004, 12:45 PM >From : "Stuart McLachlan" To : "Access Developers discussion and problem solving" Copy to : Subject : Re: [AccessD] OT - Internet Explorer 6.0 On 16 Mar 2004 at 12:42, paul.hartland at fsmail.net wrote: > To all, Don?t know where else to turn at the moment, I have Internet > Explorer 6.0 (SP1) installed on my PC at home. During the weekend I > thought I would look around the net etc, but my page came up blank and > no address in the address window. That could just be because your home page in Interent Options | General is set to "about:blank" What happens when you type a URL into the address window >I have a connection to the Internet > cause my MSN and Yahoo Messenger are both working fine, however I have > no Browser capability. > I?m running Windows 98SE, has anyone else ever had this and how I can > go about rectifying it. I have tried re-installing IE6 and don?t know > what else to do. Try installing Mozilla Firefox and using that instead? http://www.mozilla.org/products/firefox/ I've recently switched over to it from IE and I love it. There are lots of things it does much better than IE. -- Lexacorp Ltd http://www.lexacorp.com.pg Information Technology Consultancy, Software Development,System Support. -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com Freeserve AnyTime - HALF PRICE for the first 3 months - Save ?7.50 a month www.freeserve.com/anytime From gustav at cactus.dk Tue Mar 16 06:51:29 2004 From: gustav at cactus.dk (Gustav Brock) Date: Tue, 16 Mar 2004 13:51:29 +0100 Subject: [AccessD] FMS Total Access Memo Question In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <14919897320.20040316135129@cactus.dk> Hi Terri > There are a lot of memo fields that might need special formatting - > bolding, italics, bullets, etc. When I looked into using the > richtext ocx, you had to set up buttons for each formatting need. Yes, for a client I have Normal, Bold, Italic, and Underline - that's all they need. Of course, if you need more elaborate formatting you'll soon find yourself designing a WordPad clone. By the way, both the ocx and WordPad depends on the same richtex dll. > The issue would still be the same since the richtext feature is an > ActiveX control and that does not translate to Word - unless you can > tell me how to do that. There's nothing to do ... every memo field is an RTF document on its own and the control even has methods for reading and writing the content to a file. > That's FMS' pat answer - ActiveX controls don't translate over to Word. I don't know what FMS is talking about here. Again, there is nothing to translate - Word eats RTF files for lunch. /gustav > Terri Jarus > Director, Contract Support Services > jarus at amerinet-gpo.com > 314-542-1902 >>>> gustav at cactus.dk 03/16/04 05:43AM >>> > Hi Terri > Well, if all you need is some simple formatting, the MS richtext ocx will > do if you add some buttons and associated code. > /gustav >> Is anybody using this software? I purchased it a few weeks ago and I'm running into some issues of which I was unaware. >> My key reason for getting this software was to have the ability to format memo fields and then export them to Word. However, I was unaware of the difficulty in doing this. >> Is there some other 3rd party software that allows this functionality? >> Thanks for any hints, tips or advice. >> Terri Jarus >> Director, Contract Support Services >> jarus at amerinet-gpo.com >> 314-542-1902 From prodevmg at yahoo.com Tue Mar 16 07:03:48 2004 From: prodevmg at yahoo.com (Lonnie Johnson) Date: Tue, 16 Mar 2004 05:03:48 -0800 (PST) Subject: [AccessD] Terminal Server and Access XP In-Reply-To: <2F8793082E00D4119A1700B0D0216BF802227978@main2.marlow.com> Message-ID: <20040316130348.19201.qmail@web20405.mail.yahoo.com> Nope. I was kinda hoping there was. It works if we log onto the terminal server as administrator, but not as a regular user. Would this be at the registry level? DWUTKA at marlow.com wrote:Any missing references? Drew -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Lonnie Johnson Sent: Monday, March 15, 2004 3:56 PM To: 'MS-ACCESS-L at lists.missouri.edu'; AccessDevelopers; ms_access; AccessD solving' Subject: [AccessD] Terminal Server and Access XP Users are getting a "Run-Time error 13, type mis match" when the application tries to cycle through some controls with the following: Dim ctl as Control For Each ctl in Me.Controls... This works fine in A97 and XP on regular machines. It even works for the administrator on a terminal server machine, but not regular users on terminal server. Anyone have a clue????????? Lonnie Johnson ProDev, Professional Development of MS Access Databases Visit me at ==> http://www.prodev.us Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Mail - More reliable, more storage, less spam -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com Lonnie Johnson ProDev, Professional Development of MS Access Databases Visit me at ==> http://www.prodev.us Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Mail - More reliable, more storage, less spam From stuart at lexacorp.com.pg Tue Mar 16 07:15:11 2004 From: stuart at lexacorp.com.pg (Stuart McLachlan) Date: Tue, 16 Mar 2004 23:15:11 +1000 Subject: [AccessD] OT - Internet Explorer 6.0 In-Reply-To: <13314141.1079441211190.JavaMail.www@wwinf3001> Message-ID: <40578A7F.11548.356C0A6@localhost> On 16 Mar 2004 at 13:46, paul.hartland at fsmail.net wrote: > My homepage is set to www.freeserve.co.uk and if I type a web address > in I get the lovely little blue bar for about 5 minutes before saying > cannot be found....wouldn't mind but I'm on Broadband..... > Sounds like a problem with DNS lookup. What OS? > Message date : Mar 16 2004, 12:45 PM > >From : "Stuart McLachlan" > To : "Access Developers discussion and problem solving" > Copy to : > Subject : Re: [AccessD] OT - Internet Explorer 6.0 > On 16 Mar 2004 at 12:42, paul.hartland at fsmail.net wrote: > > > To all, Don?t know where else to turn at the moment, I have Internet > > Explorer 6.0 (SP1) installed on my PC at home. During the weekend I > > thought I would look around the net etc, but my page came up blank and > > no address in the address window. > > That could just be because your home page in Interent Options | > General is set to "about:blank" > > What happens when you type a URL into the address window > > >I have a connection to the Internet > > cause my MSN and Yahoo Messenger are both working fine, however I have > > no Browser capability. > > > I?m running Windows 98SE, has anyone else ever had this and how I can > > go about rectifying it. I have tried re-installing IE6 and don?t know > > what else to do. > > Try installing Mozilla Firefox and using that instead? > http://www.mozilla.org/products/firefox/ > > I've recently switched over to it from IE and I love it. There are > lots of things it does much better than IE. > > > -- > Lexacorp Ltd > http://www.lexacorp.com.pg > Information Technology Consultancy, Software Development,System Support. > > > > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > Freeserve AnyTime - HALF PRICE for the first 3 months - Save ?7.50 a month > www.freeserve.com/anytime > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > -- Lexacorp Ltd http://www.lexacorp.com.pg Information Technology Consultancy, Software Development,System Support. From Erwin.Craps at ithelps.be Tue Mar 16 07:32:42 2004 From: Erwin.Craps at ithelps.be (Erwin Craps - IT Helps) Date: Tue, 16 Mar 2004 14:32:42 +0100 Subject: [AccessD] Terminal Server and Access XP Message-ID: <46B976F2B698FF46A4FE7636509B22DF0AD619@stekelbes.ithelps.local> Ah ok My Eurocent fals now... Security. Security on program files etc is limited to read only. You should check security settings on files you need to write to. -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Lonnie Johnson Sent: Tuesday, March 16, 2004 2:04 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] Terminal Server and Access XP Nope. I was kinda hoping there was. It works if we log onto the terminal server as administrator, but not as a regular user. Would this be at the registry level? DWUTKA at marlow.com wrote:Any missing references? Drew -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Lonnie Johnson Sent: Monday, March 15, 2004 3:56 PM To: 'MS-ACCESS-L at lists.missouri.edu'; AccessDevelopers; ms_access; AccessD solving' Subject: [AccessD] Terminal Server and Access XP Users are getting a "Run-Time error 13, type mis match" when the application tries to cycle through some controls with the following: Dim ctl as Control For Each ctl in Me.Controls... This works fine in A97 and XP on regular machines. It even works for the administrator on a terminal server machine, but not regular users on terminal server. Anyone have a clue????????? Lonnie Johnson ProDev, Professional Development of MS Access Databases Visit me at ==> http://www.prodev.us Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Mail - More reliable, more storage, less spam -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com Lonnie Johnson ProDev, Professional Development of MS Access Databases Visit me at ==> http://www.prodev.us Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Mail - More reliable, more storage, less spam -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From rl_stewart at highstream.net Tue Mar 16 07:33:57 2004 From: rl_stewart at highstream.net (Robert L. Stewart) Date: Tue, 16 Mar 2004 07:33:57 -0600 Subject: [AccessD] Re: Access 2003 Developer Edition? In-Reply-To: <200403152240.i2FMeuM14090@databaseadvisors.com> Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20040316073249.029f1820@pop3.highstream.net> Michael, It is called Access 2003 Developer Extensions now. This is because of the hook into .NET Robert At 04:40 PM 3/15/2004 -0600, you wrote: >Date: Mon, 15 Mar 2004 19:10:32 +0100 >From: Michael Br?sdorf >Subject: [AccessD] Access 2003 Developer Edition? >To: "Access Developers discussion and problem solving" > >Message-ID: >Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" > >Hello, > >I noticed that there seems to no more Office 2003 Developers Edition. Is it >still possible to create Run-Time applications with Access 2003? >` >Michael From Erwin.Craps at ithelps.be Tue Mar 16 07:40:38 2004 From: Erwin.Craps at ithelps.be (Erwin Craps - IT Helps) Date: Tue, 16 Mar 2004 14:40:38 +0100 Subject: [AccessD] Re: Access 2003 Developer Edition? Message-ID: <46B976F2B698FF46A4FE7636509B22DF0AD61B@stekelbes.ithelps.local> This is bizare, I don't find this article at my distributor Techdata. Does anyone has the article ID of MS? -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Robert L. Stewart Sent: Tuesday, March 16, 2004 2:34 PM To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Cc: michael.broesdorf at web.de Subject: [AccessD] Re: Access 2003 Developer Edition? Michael, It is called Access 2003 Developer Extensions now. This is because of the hook into .NET Robert At 04:40 PM 3/15/2004 -0600, you wrote: >Date: Mon, 15 Mar 2004 19:10:32 +0100 >From: Michael Br?sdorf >Subject: [AccessD] Access 2003 Developer Edition? >To: "Access Developers discussion and problem solving" > >Message-ID: >Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" > >Hello, > >I noticed that there seems to no more Office 2003 Developers Edition. >Is it still possible to create Run-Time applications with Access 2003? >` >Michael -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From rl_stewart at highstream.net Tue Mar 16 07:47:57 2004 From: rl_stewart at highstream.net (Robert L. Stewart) Date: Tue, 16 Mar 2004 07:47:57 -0600 Subject: [AccessD] Re: Access 2003 Developer Edition? In-Reply-To: <200403152240.i2FMeuM14090@databaseadvisors.com> Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20040316074545.02a036b0@pop3.highstream.net> From the MSDN Downloads site: Visual Studio Tools for the Microsoft Office System 2003: Microsoft Visual Studio Tools for the Microsoft Office System provides developers the tools and technologies they need to build the next generation of solutions for the Microsoft Office System. Visual Studio Tools for the Microsoft Office System includes: Microsoft Visual Studio Tools for the Microsoft Office System, bringing the power and productivity of Visual Studio .NET and the .NET Framework to business solutions using Microsoft Office Word 2003 and Microsoft Office Excel 2003. Developers can use Visual Studio .NET to build powerful business solutions where Word and Excel are the user interface. Access 2003 Developer Extensions: Microsoft Office Access 2003 Developer Extensions, including a Microsoft? Office Access 2003 Runtime license enabling royalty-free distribution of Microsoft? Office Access 2003 solutions, and a series of tools for Access developers that streamline the production and deployment of Access solutions. At 04:40 PM 3/15/2004 -0600, you wrote: >Date: Mon, 15 Mar 2004 10:30:59 -0800 >From: "Charlotte Foust" >Subject: RE: [AccessD] Access 2003 Developer Edition? >To: "Access Developers discussion and problem solving" > >Message-ID: > >Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" > >You need the Visual Studio Tools for Office 2003, as well as Access 2003, >to create runtimes. There is no developer's edition for 2003. > >Charlotte Foust > >-----Original Message----- >From: Michael Br?sdorf [mailto:michael.broesdorf at web.de] >Sent: Monday, March 15, 2004 10:11 AM >To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving >Subject: [AccessD] Access 2003 Developer Edition? > > >Hello, > >I noticed that there seems to no more Office 2003 Developers Edition. Is >it still possible to create Run-Time applications with Access 2003? ` Michael From michael.broesdorf at web.de Tue Mar 16 07:55:51 2004 From: michael.broesdorf at web.de (=?us-ascii?Q?Michael_Brosdorf?=) Date: Tue, 16 Mar 2004 14:55:51 +0100 Subject: AW: [AccessD] Re: Access 2003 Developer Edition? In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.2.20040316073249.029f1820@pop3.highstream.net> Message-ID: Thanks to all who responded - this list is great! Michael -----Ursprungliche Nachricht----- Von: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]Im Auftrag von Robert L. Stewart Gesendet: Dienstag, 16. Marz 2004 14:34 An: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Cc: michael.broesdorf at web.de Betreff: [AccessD] Re: Access 2003 Developer Edition? Michael, It is called Access 2003 Developer Extensions now. This is because of the hook into .NET Robert At 04:40 PM 3/15/2004 -0600, you wrote: >Date: Mon, 15 Mar 2004 19:10:32 +0100 >From: Michael Br?sdorf >Subject: [AccessD] Access 2003 Developer Edition? >To: "Access Developers discussion and problem solving" > >Message-ID: >Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" > >Hello, > >I noticed that there seems to no more Office 2003 Developers Edition. Is it >still possible to create Run-Time applications with Access 2003? >` >Michael -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From jimdettman at earthlink.net Tue Mar 16 08:07:09 2004 From: jimdettman at earthlink.net (Jim Dettman) Date: Tue, 16 Mar 2004 09:07:09 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Framework Discussion - Dependent Objects In-Reply-To: Message-ID: John, I'm not sure what you think I mean by "overloading", but what I'm saying is that you have a choice: You either build numerous classes to handle specific behavior or you overload a single class with more properties and methods to make it handle more then one type of behavior. <> And this was exactly my point. Your choice was either to create a new class in the Framework to handle a text control with a popup calendar or add properties and methods to a single class so it can do both jobs. <> I'm not telling you do to anything. I was trying to add to the discussion, pointing out that performance is based on design decisions that are made in the framework. You are taking an OOP approach and the same fundamentals apply no matter which language your dealing with. I don't understand why your taking this so personally. I never said that what you were doing was not worth it. I was discussing frameworks in general. This has nothing to do with me leaving Access for VFP, which I have not (I still use both tools on a regular basis). I would love to see someone do a commercial framework for Access. But after 10 years of existence, one has to ask themselves why there are not a truck load of them already. You asked for input about the design of frameworks and I've brought up a few issues (performance and distribution of new versions). If you don't want to address them and explore these areas then fine. But if that's the case, then don't ask for the input in the first place. Jim (315) 699-3443 jimdettman at earthlink.net -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of John W. Colby Sent: Monday, March 15, 2004 9:34 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] Framework Discussion - Dependent Objects Jim, > So you'll end up with lots of classes, unless I misunderstanding your intent. For example let's start with a base text box class. In a typical app, you can have text boxes that can be used for: 1. Text input 2. Input of a short date 3. Input of a short date and time. #2 and #3 are variations of #1 and contain some of the same behaviors and methods. So at the frame work level, I'm going to provide three classes or I'm going to do one class (text box) and overload it with properties to accomplish #2 and #3. But what your not doing is starting with #1, then creating #2 and #3 based on #1. Lets back up a minute and discuss this from a logical perspective. <> From jimdettman at earthlink.net Tue Mar 16 08:11:12 2004 From: jimdettman at earthlink.net (Jim Dettman) Date: Tue, 16 Mar 2004 09:11:12 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Transaction in MS-Access INFO REQUIRED In-Reply-To: <001c01c40b25$511c2130$bf00a8c0@dabsight> Message-ID: Sander/John, Actually, to be a little more specific, there is no rollback/forward capability with JET as the database engine, but if you use Access with MSDE or SQL Server, then you pick that up. Jim Dettman Online Computer Services of WNY, Inc. (315) 699-3443 jimdettman at earthlink.net -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of DJK(John) Robinson Sent: Tuesday, March 16, 2004 2:07 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: [AccessD] Transaction in MS-Access INFO REQUIRED There's no transaction log in Access, so no concept of rolling back a transaction after it has been committed. Access transactions do provide atomicity, though, and multiple transactions can be nested or overlapped. HTH a little John > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of S D > Sent: 16 March 2004 06:42 > To: accessd > Subject: [AccessD] Transaction in MS-Access INFO REQUIRED > > > Hi group, > > I need info regarding TRANSACTIONS in MS-Access 2000. > Specifically about the diffs between MS-Access 2000 and > SQL-Server/Oracle. > > In Oracle / SQL-Server it is possible to roll-back a > transaction AFTER : > - a system crash; > - a network failure; > - lost connection to the database; > - etc. > > So can anybody tell me/ point me to a good document where I > can read about the possibilities and disabilities of > MS-Access 2000 Transactions. > > TIA > > Sander > > Do you Yahoo!? > Yahoo! Mail - More reliable, more storage, less spam > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From paul.hartland at fsmail.net Tue Mar 16 08:21:42 2004 From: paul.hartland at fsmail.net (paul.hartland at fsmail.net) Date: Tue, 16 Mar 2004 15:21:42 +0100 (CET) Subject: [AccessD] OT - Internet Explorer 6.0 Message-ID: <33323297.1079446902283.JavaMail.www@wwinf3005> windows 98SE is what I have at home Message date : Mar 16 2004, 01:47 PM >From : "Stuart McLachlan" To : "Access Developers discussion and problem solving" Copy to : Subject : Re: Re: [AccessD] OT - Internet Explorer 6.0 On 16 Mar 2004 at 13:46, paul.hartland at fsmail.net wrote: > My homepage is set to www.freeserve.co.uk and if I type a web address > in I get the lovely little blue bar for about 5 minutes before saying > cannot be found....wouldn't mind but I'm on Broadband..... > Sounds like a problem with DNS lookup. What OS? > Message date : Mar 16 2004, 12:45 PM > >From : "Stuart McLachlan" > To : "Access Developers discussion and problem solving" > Copy to : > Subject : Re: [AccessD] OT - Internet Explorer 6.0 > On 16 Mar 2004 at 12:42, paul.hartland at fsmail.net wrote: > > > To all, Don?t know where else to turn at the moment, I have Internet > > Explorer 6.0 (SP1) installed on my PC at home. During the weekend I > > thought I would look around the net etc, but my page came up blank and > > no address in the address window. > > That could just be because your home page in Interent Options | > General is set to "about:blank" > > What happens when you type a URL into the address window > > >I have a connection to the Internet > > cause my MSN and Yahoo Messenger are both working fine, however I have > > no Browser capability. > > > I?m running Windows 98SE, has anyone else ever had this and how I can > > go about rectifying it. I have tried re-installing IE6 and don?t know > > what else to do. > > Try installing Mozilla Firefox and using that instead? > http://www.mozilla.org/products/firefox/ > > I've recently switched over to it from IE and I love it. There are > lots of things it does much better than IE. > > > -- > Lexacorp Ltd > http://www.lexacorp.com.pg > Information Technology Consultancy, Software Development,System Support. > > > > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > Freeserve AnyTime - HALF PRICE for the first 3 months - Save ?7.50 a month > www.freeserve.com/anytime > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > -- Lexacorp Ltd http://www.lexacorp.com.pg Information Technology Consultancy, Software Development,System Support. -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com Freeserve AnyTime - HALF PRICE for the first 3 months - Save ?7.50 a month www.freeserve.com/anytime From gustav at cactus.dk Tue Mar 16 09:00:14 2004 From: gustav at cactus.dk (Gustav Brock) Date: Tue, 16 Mar 2004 16:00:14 +0100 Subject: [AccessD] Re: [Private] Framework Discussion - Dependent Objects In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <11927622088.20040316160014@cactus.dk> Hi Jim Ha ha, hit by the Colby flames! Welcome to the club! I read it too and wondered - but I guess that's the way he is and that it doesn't mean so much. Remember the days of Drew and JC? Eventually they cooled down. And internationalization? He just loves his framework as a child, so I've chosen to keep my mouth shut. Also, and seriously, I find my forms so diverse and often highly specialized as I can't see a framework fit in and certainly not worth spending the time to build it. If inheritance was possible, I might reconsider, but I guess that won't ever happen. /gustav > I'm not telling you do to anything. I was trying to add to the > discussion, pointing out that performance is based on design decisions that > are made in the framework. You are taking an OOP approach and the same > fundamentals apply no matter which language your dealing with. > I don't understand why your taking this so personally. I never said that > what you were doing was not worth it. I was discussing frameworks in > general. This has nothing to do with me leaving Access for VFP, which I > have not (I still use both tools on a regular basis). I would love to see > someone do a commercial framework for Access. But after 10 years of > existence, one has to ask themselves why there are not a truck load of them > already. > You asked for input about the design of frameworks and I've brought up a > few issues (performance and distribution of new versions). If you don't > want to address them and explore these areas then fine. But if that's the > case, then don't ask for the input in the first place. From gustav at cactus.dk Tue Mar 16 09:07:30 2004 From: gustav at cactus.dk (Gustav Brock) Date: Tue, 16 Mar 2004 16:07:30 +0100 Subject: [AccessD] Re: [Private] Framework Discussion - Dependent Objects In-Reply-To: <11927622088.20040316160014@cactus.dk> References: <11927622088.20040316160014@cactus.dk> Message-ID: <13028057995.20040316160730@cactus.dk> Oops, sorry, didn't mean to post to the list. Actually decided to stay off the discussion as it is evolving. /gustav From rl_stewart at highstream.net Tue Mar 16 09:37:58 2004 From: rl_stewart at highstream.net (Robert L. Stewart) Date: Tue, 16 Mar 2004 09:37:58 -0600 Subject: [AccessD] Re: Transaction in MS-Access INFO REQUIRED In-Reply-To: <200403161504.i2GF44M30435@databaseadvisors.com> Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20040316093312.02a5b630@pop3.highstream.net> Actually, there is. But, it is limited to the scope of the transaction and not based on a log file. SQL Server has both, transaction based ROLLBACK/COMMIT capability and the capability to go back to a log and rebuild transaction based on entries into it. From MS Access Help: BeginTrans, CommitTrans, Rollback Methods Example This example changes the job title of all sales representatives in the Employees table of the database. After the BeginTrans method starts a transaction that isolates all the changes made to the Employees table, the CommitTrans method saves the changes. Notice that you can use the Rollback method to undo changes that you saved using the Update method. Furthermore, the main transaction is nested within another transaction that automatically rolls back any changes made by the user during this example. One or more table pages remain locked while the user decides whether or not to accept the changes. For this reason, this technique isn't recommended but shown only as an example. Sub BeginTransX() Dim strName As String Dim strMessage As String Dim wrkDefault As Workspace Dim dbsNorthwind As Database Dim rstEmployees As Recordset ' Get default Workspace. Set wrkDefault = DBEngine.Workspaces(0) Set dbsNorthwind = OpenDatabase("Northwind.mdb") Set rstEmployees = _ dbsNorthwind.OpenRecordset("Employees") ' Start of outer transaction. wrkDefault.BeginTrans ' Start of main transaction. wrkDefault.BeginTrans With rstEmployees ' Loop through recordset and ask user if she wants to ' change the title for a specified employee. Do Until .EOF If !Title = "Sales Representative" Then strName = !LastName & ", " & !FirstName strMessage = "Employee: " & strName & vbCr & _ "Change title to Account Executive?" ' Change the title for the specified employee. If MsgBox(strMessage, vbYesNo) = vbYes Then .Edit !Title = "Account Executive" .Update End If End If .MoveNext Loop ' Ask if the user wants to commit to all the changes ' made above. If MsgBox("Save all changes?", vbYesNo) = vbYes Then wrkDefault.CommitTrans Else wrkDefault.Rollback End If ' Print current data in recordset. .MoveFirst Do While Not .EOF Debug.Print !LastName & ", " & !FirstName & _ " - " & !Title .MoveNext Loop ' Roll back any changes made by the user since this is ' a demonstration. wrkDefault.Rollback .Close End With dbsNorthwind.Close End Sub BeginTrans, CommitTrans, Rollback Methods The transaction methods manage transaction processing during a session defined by a Workspace object as follows: ? BeginTrans begins a new transaction. ? CommitTrans ends the ? current transaction and saves the changes. ? Rollback ends the current transaction and restores the databases in the Workspace object to the state they were in when the current transaction began. Syntax workspace.BeginTrans | CommitTrans [dbForceOSFlush] | Rollback The workspace placeholder is an object variable that represents the Workspace containing the databases that will use transactions. Remarks You use these methods with a Workspace object when you want to treat a series of changes made to the databases in a session as one unit. Typically, you use transactions to maintain the integrity of your data when you must both update records in two or more tables and ensure changes are completed (committed) in all tables or none at all (rolled back). For example, if you transfer money from one account to another, you might subtract an amount from one and add the amount to another. If either update fails, the accounts no longer balance. Use the BeginTrans method before updating the first record, and then, if any subsequent update fails, you can use the Rollback method to undo all of the updates. Use the CommitTrans method after you successfully update the last record. In a Microsoft Jet workspace, you can include the dbForceOSFlush constant with CommitTrans. This forces the database engine to immediately flush all updates to disk, instead of caching them temporarily. Without using this option, a user could get control back immediately after the application program calls CommitTrans, turn the computer off, and not have the data written to disk. While using this option may affect your application?s performance, it is useful in situations where the computer could be shut off before cached updates are saved to disk. Caution Within one Workspace object, transactions are always global to the Workspace and aren't limited to only one Connection or Database object. If you perform operations on more than one connection or database within a Workspace transaction, resolving the transaction (that is, using the CommitTrans or Rollback method) affects all operations on all connections and databases within that workspace. After you use CommitTrans, you can't undo changes made during that transaction unless the transaction is nested within another transaction that is itself rolled back. If you nest transactions, you must resolve the current transaction before you can resolve a transaction at a higher level of nesting. If you want to have simultaneous transactions with overlapping, non-nested scopes, you can create additional Workspace objects to contain the concurrent transactions. If you close a Workspace object without resolving any pending transactions, the transactions are automatically rolled back. If you use the CommitTrans or Rollback method without first using the BeginTrans method, an error occurs. Some ISAM databases used in a Microsoft Jet workspace may not support transactions, in which case the Transactions property of the Database object or Recordset object is False. To make sure the database supports transactions, check the value of the Transactions property of the Database object before using the BeginTrans method. If you are using a Recordset object based on more than one database, check the Transactions property of the Recordset object. If a Recordset is based entirely on Microsoft Jet tables, you can always use transactions. Recordset objects based on tables created by other database products, however, may not support transactions. For example, you can't use transactions in a Recordset based on a Paradox table. In this case, the Transactions property is False. If the Database or Recordset doesn't support transactions, the methods are ignored and no error occurs. You can't nest transactions if you are accessing ODBC data sources through the Microsoft Jet database engine. In ODBC workspaces, when you use CommitTrans your cursor may no longer be valid. Use the Requery method to view the changes in the Recordset, or close and re-open the Recordset. Notes ? You can often improve the performance of your application by breaking operations that require disk access into transaction blocks. This buffers your operations and may significantly reduce the number of times a disk is accessed. ? In a Microsoft Jet workspace, transactions are logged in a file kept in the directory specified by the TEMP environment variable on the workstation. If the transaction log file exhausts the available storage on your TEMP drive, the database engine triggers a run-time error. At this point, if you use CommitTrans, an indeterminate number of operations are committed, but the remaining uncompleted operations are lost, and the operation has to be restarted. Using a Rollback method releases the transaction log and rolls back all operations in the transaction. ? Closing a clone Recordset within a pending transaction will cause an implicit Rollback operation. BeginTrans, CommitTrans, and RollbackTrans Methods These transaction methods manage transaction processing within a Connection object as follows: ? BeginTrans ? Begins a new transaction. ? CommitTrans ? Saves any changes and ends the current transaction. It may also start a new transaction. ? RollbackTrans ? Cancels any changes made during the current transaction and ends the transaction. It may also start a new transaction. Syntax level = object.BeginTrans() object.BeginTrans object.CommitTrans object.RollbackTrans Return Value BeginTrans can be called as a function that returns a Long variable indicating the nesting level of the transaction. Parameters object A Connection object. Connection Use these methods with a Connection object when you want to save or cancel a series of changes made to the source data as a single unit. For example, to transfer money between accounts, you subtract an amount from one and add the same amount to the other. If either update fails, the accounts no longer balance. Making these changes within an open transaction ensures that either all or none of the changes go through. Note Not all providers support transactions. Verify that the provider-defined property "Transaction DDL" appears in the Connection object's Properties collection, indicating that the provider supports transactions. If the provider does not support transactions, calling one of these methods will return an error. After you call the BeginTrans method, the provider will no longer instantaneously commit changes you make until you call CommitTrans or RollbackTrans to end the transaction. For providers that support nested transactions, calling the BeginTrans method within an open transaction starts a new, nested transaction. The return value indicates the level of nesting: a return value of "1" indicates you have opened a top-level transaction (that is, the transaction is not nested within another transaction), "2" indicates that you have opened a second-level transaction (a transaction nested within a top-level transaction), and so forth. Calling CommitTrans or RollbackTrans affects only the most recently opened transaction; you must close or roll back the current transaction before you can resolve any higher-level transactions. Calling the CommitTrans method saves changes made within an open transaction on the connection and ends the transaction. Calling the RollbackTrans method reverses any changes made within an open transaction and ends the transaction. Calling either method when there is no open transaction generates an error. Depending on the Connection object's Attributes property, calling either the CommitTrans or RollbackTrans methods may automatically start a new transaction. If the Attributes property is set to adXactCommitRetaining, the provider automatically starts a new transaction after a CommitTrans call. If the Attributes property is set to adXactAbortRetaining, the provider automatically starts a new transaction after a RollbackTrans call. At 09:04 AM 3/16/2004 -0600, you wrote: >Date: Tue, 16 Mar 2004 09:11:12 -0500 >From: "Jim Dettman" >Subject: RE: [AccessD] Transaction in MS-Access INFO REQUIRED >To: "Access Developers discussion and problem solving" > >Message-ID: >Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" > >Sander/John, > > Actually, to be a little more specific, there is no rollback/forward >capability with JET as the database engine, but if you use Access with MSDE >or SQL Server, then you pick that up. > >Jim Dettman >Online Computer Services of WNY, Inc. >(315) 699-3443 >jimdettman at earthlink.net From jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com Tue Mar 16 09:54:40 2004 From: jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com (John W. Colby) Date: Tue, 16 Mar 2004 10:54:40 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Framework Discussion - Dependent Objects In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Jim, I certainly don't want to squash discussion and I don't want to hurt your feelings or anyone else's. I am not exactly taking it personally, however it does feel as if I am "defending" trying to extend the capabilities of Access using a class and frameworks using comparison against tools that simply don't compare. IT simply isn't useful to discuss Access in terms of FoxPro, or .NET, C++, VB. I mean it is useful to do that, if the objective is to decide whether or not to use Access or simply move to something else for the capabilities that the something else provides. What isn't useful is to compare what can be done "in terms of" that something else. >I'm not sure what you think I mean by "overloading" Overloading means inheriting a parent class, then taking a defined method in the parent class, and writing the exact same syntax function call replacing the functionality with something different. Dog "Barks", Daschund "barks" but entirely differently. I inherit dog, and then write a new "bark" method changing the code (usually but not always writing entirely new code) to change what happens when the user calls my bark method. I then save that as a Daschund object of the dog lineage. If you are going to use OO phrases and keywords I am going to respond that that isn't useful. While defining "overloading" as adding more methods and properties to a class is a humorous definition (makes me envision a poor boat class sinking under the waves) it is not what the word means, and I was responding to an apparent (to me) attempt to apply OO terminology to a patently non OO environment. >And this was exactly my point. Your choice was either to create a new class in the Framework to handle a text control with a popup calendar or add properties and methods to a single class so it can do both jobs. Let's be clear (I think I already have but...) I don't add 13 different text box classes. There is a single textbox class and my form's control scanner loads that class for every text box it encounters. You could if you desired use a system of 13 different text box classes if you wanted to use a naming convention where you used something like txtAXXX txtBXXX etc and then in the scanner parsed the first 4 characters of the text box to discover which class to load. The problem with doing this is that now the framework only works with your specific naming convention. >I'm not telling you do to anything. I was trying to add to the discussion, pointing out that performance is based on design decisions that are made in the framework. You are taking an OOP approach and the same fundamentals apply no matter which language your dealing with. And I am trying to point out that to a large extent my design decisions are made for me by Microsoft's denial of OO capabilities to Office programmers. I am not taking an OOP approach, I am using a pitiful tool to the best of my abilities. I am NOT taking an OOP approach. I am using a class to wrap an object. I am NOT taking an OOP approach. Access and Office does NOT have OOP tools in any significant meaning of the word. It does have classes, and it has Withevents. These devices (along with the forms and controls) are called objects, so you could say I am doing OBJECT PROGRAMMING, but that is not the same as OBJECT ORIENTED PROGRAMMING. Those classes and controls cannot be inherited, I can't overload their methods (since I can't inherit them), these classes are just an object defined in and of themselves and stand alone. I am doing nothing more or less than wrapping an object in a class and adding new methods and properties using the class. That is NOT an OOP approach because I don't have OOP tools to approach the task with! As for some fundamentals applying... I will grant you that a developer could design 13 text box classes if they wished. Or take all of that functionality and put it in a single text box class. So whereas you as a FoxPro developer can sit there for months trying to define which level of inheritance you want to put the bark method at, I get to make a decision (in about 15 minutes) as to whether I use 13 text box classes or one. I did think about this long ago ad decided (in about 15 minutes) that it ultimately did not make sense to maintain 13 text box classes, that the additional code and properties in a single class was not excessive overhead and that was that. >I would love to see someone do a commercial framework for Access. But after 10 years of existence, one has to ask themselves why there are not a truck load of them already. There are many reasons. 1) Programmers who use frameworks expect a system that they can just inherit and add their own stuff to - see your own posts!!! That simply isn't possible with Access. Thus they are left with using the framework as is and funneling change requests to the developer, and perhaps never seeing their requests implemented, or "rolling their own". 2) Access as an environment is entirely different form other development environments in that data stores are done in MDBs, there is the FE/BE split issue, and where do you put the table data for the framework, the framework relative to the FE (application), back end (it can talk to SQL Server and other data stores as well) so that changes aren't overwritten by the next rev of the framework. Little problems that get in the way. Most Access developers don't want to have to think about these things because it can make your head hurt. 3) There are so many "access developers" who don't have a clue what a library is much less what a framework is, and so few (percentage wise) that do understand all of these issues. Where is the market? What are the support costs? Imagine selling a thousand copies and then getting 900 phone calls (or emails) a day for the rest of your life asking how to do something. The unfortunate reality is that Access has a huge percentage of "power users calling themselves developers", and a miniscule percentage of IT trained professionals selecting Access as their primary tool. >You asked for input about the design of frameworks and I've brought up a few issues (performance and distribution of new versions). If you don't want to address them and explore these areas then fine. But if that's the case, then don't ask for the input in the first place. And I have responded re performance. As far as I can tell (and I have been using my framework for many years in various implementations) performance simply isn't an issue for all the reasons I outlined. I encourage you and anyone else to explore this for themselves. I did extensive timings of classes loading and unloading, using forms that loaded a TON of controls (not useful forms, just forms that I copied hundreds of controls onto for testing purposes). I then timed the open (with NO FORM / CONTROL DATA LOADING) so that I could get a sense of the load / unload times of classes. My conclusion using an OLD SLOW computer was that each class took under 1/2 millisecond to load. With my current workstation a form with 288 control classes plus the form class took 60 milli-seconds to run the control scanner and load the classes for those controls (I just built a test form to time that)! Sure, further performance analysis is always welcome but that should at least give a rough feeling for the speed of things. As for distributions (I guess I missed that in your previous post) that is only an issue if the developer who buys the framework expects to "overload it". If they do then they need to be gently reminded that Access is not OO and to go elsewhere if that is their expectation! "What you get is what you get" and if you need additional things you request hooks or simply do things that aren't framework supported on a form by form, control by control basis. After all, if they are not using a framework, they are already doing exactly that except with ALL of their functionality! Or build their own framework. My article series is showing this list exactly how to do that. So Jim, lets discuss frameworks by all means. Just don't bother trying to discuss it in comparison to things it isn't. As some famous philosopher once said (roughly): "It isn't useful to try and teach a pig to sing. It won't work and you'll just piss off the pig". Access can do a very few things to make your life better when it comes to frameworks. I will discuss for hours the merits of building 13 text box classes vs. one, why you would do one, why you would do the other, how you would implement the system if you chose to do so. But to try to cast it in the light of OOP programming just obfuscates the reality... it ain't. Please don't go away mad, in fact don't go away at all. Just approach the subject from an angle that allows us to perform a useful engineering analysis of what can be done with the tools we have. We have classes, and we have withevents. We have objects (controls and classes), none of which can be inherited or anything that goes along with inheritance. Those are the ground rules. How can we do something useful with that in the context of a framework? John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Jim Dettman Sent: Tuesday, March 16, 2004 9:07 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] Framework Discussion - Dependent Objects John, I'm not sure what you think I mean by "overloading", but what I'm saying is that you have a choice: You either build numerous classes to handle specific behavior or you overload a single class with more properties and methods to make it handle more then one type of behavior. <> And this was exactly my point. Your choice was either to create a new class in the Framework to handle a text control with a popup calendar or add properties and methods to a single class so it can do both jobs. <> I'm not telling you do to anything. I was trying to add to the discussion, pointing out that performance is based on design decisions that are made in the framework. You are taking an OOP approach and the same fundamentals apply no matter which language your dealing with. I don't understand why your taking this so personally. I never said that what you were doing was not worth it. I was discussing frameworks in general. This has nothing to do with me leaving Access for VFP, which I have not (I still use both tools on a regular basis). I would love to see someone do a commercial framework for Access. But after 10 years of existence, one has to ask themselves why there are not a truck load of them already. You asked for input about the design of frameworks and I've brought up a few issues (performance and distribution of new versions). If you don't want to address them and explore these areas then fine. But if that's the case, then don't ask for the input in the first place. Jim (315) 699-3443 jimdettman at earthlink.net From rsmethurst at UK.EY.COM Tue Mar 16 10:05:40 2004 From: rsmethurst at UK.EY.COM (rsmethurst at UK.EY.COM) Date: Tue, 16 Mar 2004 16:05:40 +0000 Subject: [AccessD] Framework Discussion - Implements Message-ID: Hi All, In light of all the mails about classes, frameworks and implementation etc. (most of which I am finding very interesting). Could someone explain to me the difference between the 'Implements' statement and how this is differs from inheritance. Thanks Ryan This e-mail and any attachment are confidential and contain proprietary information, some or all of which may be legally privileged. It is intended solely for the use of the individual or entity to which it is addressed. If you are not the intended recipient, please notify the author immediately by telephone or by replying to this e-mail, and then delete all copies of the e-mail on your system. If you are not the intended recipient, you must not use, disclose, distribute, copy, print or rely on this e-mail. Whilst we have taken reasonable precautions to ensure that this e-mail and any attachment has been checked for viruses, we cannot guarantee that they are virus free and we cannot accept liability for any damage sustained as a result of software viruses. We would advise that you carry out your own virus checks, especially before opening an attachment. The UK firm Ernst & Young LLP is a limited liability partnership registered in England and Wales with registered number OC300001 and is a member practice of Ernst & Young Global. A list of members? names is available for inspection at 1 More London Place, London, SE1 2AF, the firm?s principal place of business and its registered office. From jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com Tue Mar 16 10:22:51 2004 From: jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com (John W. Colby) Date: Tue, 16 Mar 2004 11:22:51 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Re: [Private] Framework Discussion - Dependent Objects In-Reply-To: <13028057995.20040316160730@cactus.dk> Message-ID: ROTFL. John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Gustav Brock Sent: Tuesday, March 16, 2004 10:08 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: [AccessD] Re: [Private] Framework Discussion - Dependent Objects Oops, sorry, didn't mean to post to the list. Actually decided to stay off the discussion as it is evolving. /gustav -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From James at fcidms.com Tue Mar 16 10:45:43 2004 From: James at fcidms.com (James Barash) Date: Tue, 16 Mar 2004 11:45:43 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Framework Discussion - Dependent Objects In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <200403161645.LAA13642@jake.bcentralhost.com> John, I'm not trying to get in the middle of your discussion but I think you are using the wrong definition of "overloading", at least in terms of OO programming. Overloading refers to defining the same method or property with different signatures. In other words, if you define a method but want to be able to pass different parameters, you "overload" the method by defining it more than once,with each definition having different parameters. As long as you are passing different types or number of parameters, it will work in an OO language. In VB.net, there is no variant type so if you need to pass different types to a function, you would have multiple definitions, one for each data type you might need. What you are defining is "overriding", where the inherited class definition of a property or method "overrides" that of the base class. That way, your inherited class can have different functionality than the base class. When overriding, the property or method must have the same signature as that of the base class. As far as I've been able to tell, there is no "overloading" in Access, but you can, to some extent, "override" I'm been very impressed by your explainations of your framework, at least as much as I've been able to read, and I'm not in any way trying to start an argument, but clearly the differences in the definition of terms is causing disagreements. James Barash -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of John W. Colby Sent: Tuesday, March 16, 2004 10:55 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] Framework Discussion - Dependent Objects Jim, I certainly don't want to squash discussion and I don't want to hurt your feelings or anyone else's. I am not exactly taking it personally, however it does feel as if I am "defending" trying to extend the capabilities of Access using a class and frameworks using comparison against tools that simply don't compare. IT simply isn't useful to discuss Access in terms of FoxPro, or .NET, C++, VB. I mean it is useful to do that, if the objective is to decide whether or not to use Access or simply move to something else for the capabilities that the something else provides. What isn't useful is to compare what can be done "in terms of" that something else. >I'm not sure what you think I mean by "overloading" Overloading means inheriting a parent class, then taking a defined method in the parent class, and writing the exact same syntax function call replacing the functionality with something different. Dog "Barks", Daschund "barks" but entirely differently. I inherit dog, and then write a new "bark" method changing the code (usually but not always writing entirely new code) to change what happens when the user calls my bark method. I then save that as a Daschund object of the dog lineage. If you are going to use OO phrases and keywords I am going to respond that that isn't useful. While defining "overloading" as adding more methods and properties to a class is a humorous definition (makes me envision a poor boat class sinking under the waves) it is not what the word means, and I was responding to an apparent (to me) attempt to apply OO terminology to a patently non OO environment. >And this was exactly my point. Your choice was either to create a new class in the Framework to handle a text control with a popup calendar or add properties and methods to a single class so it can do both jobs. Let's be clear (I think I already have but...) I don't add 13 different text box classes. There is a single textbox class and my form's control scanner loads that class for every text box it encounters. You could if you desired use a system of 13 different text box classes if you wanted to use a naming convention where you used something like txtAXXX txtBXXX etc and then in the scanner parsed the first 4 characters of the text box to discover which class to load. The problem with doing this is that now the framework only works with your specific naming convention. >I'm not telling you do to anything. I was trying to add to the discussion, pointing out that performance is based on design decisions that are made in the framework. You are taking an OOP approach and the same fundamentals apply no matter which language your dealing with. And I am trying to point out that to a large extent my design decisions are made for me by Microsoft's denial of OO capabilities to Office programmers. I am not taking an OOP approach, I am using a pitiful tool to the best of my abilities. I am NOT taking an OOP approach. I am using a class to wrap an object. I am NOT taking an OOP approach. Access and Office does NOT have OOP tools in any significant meaning of the word. It does have classes, and it has Withevents. These devices (along with the forms and controls) are called objects, so you could say I am doing OBJECT PROGRAMMING, but that is not the same as OBJECT ORIENTED PROGRAMMING. Those classes and controls cannot be inherited, I can't overload their methods (since I can't inherit them), these classes are just an object defined in and of themselves and stand alone. I am doing nothing more or less than wrapping an object in a class and adding new methods and properties using the class. That is NOT an OOP approach because I don't have OOP tools to approach the task with! As for some fundamentals applying... I will grant you that a developer could design 13 text box classes if they wished. Or take all of that functionality and put it in a single text box class. So whereas you as a FoxPro developer can sit there for months trying to define which level of inheritance you want to put the bark method at, I get to make a decision (in about 15 minutes) as to whether I use 13 text box classes or one. I did think about this long ago ad decided (in about 15 minutes) that it ultimately did not make sense to maintain 13 text box classes, that the additional code and properties in a single class was not excessive overhead and that was that. >I would love to see someone do a commercial framework for Access. But after 10 years of existence, one has to ask themselves why there are not a truck load of them already. There are many reasons. 1) Programmers who use frameworks expect a system that they can just inherit and add their own stuff to - see your own posts!!! That simply isn't possible with Access. Thus they are left with using the framework as is and funneling change requests to the developer, and perhaps never seeing their requests implemented, or "rolling their own". 2) Access as an environment is entirely different form other development environments in that data stores are done in MDBs, there is the FE/BE split issue, and where do you put the table data for the framework, the framework relative to the FE (application), back end (it can talk to SQL Server and other data stores as well) so that changes aren't overwritten by the next rev of the framework. Little problems that get in the way. Most Access developers don't want to have to think about these things because it can make your head hurt. 3) There are so many "access developers" who don't have a clue what a library is much less what a framework is, and so few (percentage wise) that do understand all of these issues. Where is the market? What are the support costs? Imagine selling a thousand copies and then getting 900 phone calls (or emails) a day for the rest of your life asking how to do something. The unfortunate reality is that Access has a huge percentage of "power users calling themselves developers", and a miniscule percentage of IT trained professionals selecting Access as their primary tool. >You asked for input about the design of frameworks and I've brought up a few issues (performance and distribution of new versions). If you don't want to address them and explore these areas then fine. But if that's the case, then don't ask for the input in the first place. And I have responded re performance. As far as I can tell (and I have been using my framework for many years in various implementations) performance simply isn't an issue for all the reasons I outlined. I encourage you and anyone else to explore this for themselves. I did extensive timings of classes loading and unloading, using forms that loaded a TON of controls (not useful forms, just forms that I copied hundreds of controls onto for testing purposes). I then timed the open (with NO FORM / CONTROL DATA LOADING) so that I could get a sense of the load / unload times of classes. My conclusion using an OLD SLOW computer was that each class took under 1/2 millisecond to load. With my current workstation a form with 288 control classes plus the form class took 60 milli-seconds to run the control scanner and load the classes for those controls (I just built a test form to time that)! Sure, further performance analysis is always welcome but that should at least give a rough feeling for the speed of things. As for distributions (I guess I missed that in your previous post) that is only an issue if the developer who buys the framework expects to "overload it". If they do then they need to be gently reminded that Access is not OO and to go elsewhere if that is their expectation! "What you get is what you get" and if you need additional things you request hooks or simply do things that aren't framework supported on a form by form, control by control basis. After all, if they are not using a framework, they are already doing exactly that except with ALL of their functionality! Or build their own framework. My article series is showing this list exactly how to do that. So Jim, lets discuss frameworks by all means. Just don't bother trying to discuss it in comparison to things it isn't. As some famous philosopher once said (roughly): "It isn't useful to try and teach a pig to sing. It won't work and you'll just piss off the pig". Access can do a very few things to make your life better when it comes to frameworks. I will discuss for hours the merits of building 13 text box classes vs. one, why you would do one, why you would do the other, how you would implement the system if you chose to do so. But to try to cast it in the light of OOP programming just obfuscates the reality... it ain't. Please don't go away mad, in fact don't go away at all. Just approach the subject from an angle that allows us to perform a useful engineering analysis of what can be done with the tools we have. We have classes, and we have withevents. We have objects (controls and classes), none of which can be inherited or anything that goes along with inheritance. Those are the ground rules. How can we do something useful with that in the context of a framework? John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Jim Dettman Sent: Tuesday, March 16, 2004 9:07 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] Framework Discussion - Dependent Objects John, I'm not sure what you think I mean by "overloading", but what I'm saying is that you have a choice: You either build numerous classes to handle specific behavior or you overload a single class with more properties and methods to make it handle more then one type of behavior. <> And this was exactly my point. Your choice was either to create a new class in the Framework to handle a text control with a popup calendar or add properties and methods to a single class so it can do both jobs. <> I'm not telling you do to anything. I was trying to add to the discussion, pointing out that performance is based on design decisions that are made in the framework. You are taking an OOP approach and the same fundamentals apply no matter which language your dealing with. I don't understand why your taking this so personally. I never said that what you were doing was not worth it. I was discussing frameworks in general. This has nothing to do with me leaving Access for VFP, which I have not (I still use both tools on a regular basis). I would love to see someone do a commercial framework for Access. But after 10 years of existence, one has to ask themselves why there are not a truck load of them already. You asked for input about the design of frameworks and I've brought up a few issues (performance and distribution of new versions). If you don't want to address them and explore these areas then fine. But if that's the case, then don't ask for the input in the first place. Jim (315) 699-3443 jimdettman at earthlink.net -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com Tue Mar 16 10:51:14 2004 From: jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com (John W. Colby) Date: Tue, 16 Mar 2004 11:51:14 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Framework Discussion - Implements In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Ryan, I can't help you with Implements because, in the stuff that I have been doing, I can't find a use for it. It seems to be a method of declaring that a specific object belongs to a higher level class of objects, ad allow you to dimension that object as that higher level object. In other words, you define a class with PUBLIC variables (generally considered a no-no) and a bunch of method and property STUBS. Once you have done that you create other classes that "implements" the parent class. It appears that the parent class' public variables magically become private in the class that implements the parent object. So from that perspective it would be useful (If I could figure out how to do it) as a means of defining a set of variables so that I don't have to define them again in other similar objects. The methods in the "parent" class have no code in them. They are just an empty declaration with a name and the parameters (with their type) that you expect to be using in this parent object. So... AFAICT you have managed true inheritance for a small set of variables and defined that you will provide a small set of methods. I am quite sure that this is useful to some people. It seems that the argument is that you now can dimension your object as an instance of the parent object and have early binding, able to see all of the properties defined in that parent object etc. What isn't clear (since I haven't ever used them) is that whether I can also see all of my own custom properties not defined in the parent object using early binding. If so then using this stuff would at least have a use to me. OOP and what is called "implementation inheritance" means that you take a parent class and "inherit" all of the code and variables in that parent. If the parent is a dog, and that parent class has a bark method, I can inherit dog and not write a line of code have a barking dog. I can now add "dance" and I now have a dancing barking dog, but all I had to do is write the dance method. I have inherited the whole kit and caboodle including the implementation of existing code in the parent. Remember that Access' version has no code at all in that parent object because it can't be inherited by the child object. There are others on the list that actually use this stuff, at least out in VB. It would be nice if they could write a demo (in Access) that shows us how this stuff all works, but no one has ever offered to do that. I don't know how so I can't do it for you. 8-( John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of rsmethurst at uk.ey.com Sent: Tuesday, March 16, 2004 11:06 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] Framework Discussion - Implements Hi All, In light of all the mails about classes, frameworks and implementation etc. (most of which I am finding very interesting). Could someone explain to me the difference between the 'Implements' statement and how this is differs from inheritance. Thanks Ryan This e-mail and any attachment are confidential and contain proprietary information, some or all of which may be legally privileged. It is intended solely for the use of the individual or entity to which it is addressed. If you are not the intended recipient, please notify the author immediately by telephone or by replying to this e-mail, and then delete all copies of the e-mail on your system. If you are not the intended recipient, you must not use, disclose, distribute, copy, print or rely on this e-mail. Whilst we have taken reasonable precautions to ensure that this e-mail and any attachment has been checked for viruses, we cannot guarantee that they are virus free and we cannot accept liability for any damage sustained as a result of software viruses. We would advise that you carry out your own virus checks, especially before opening an attachment. The UK firm Ernst & Young LLP is a limited liability partnership registered in England and Wales with registered number OC300001 and is a member practice of Ernst & Young Global. A list of members? names is available for inspection at 1 More London Place, London, SE1 2AF, the firm?s principal place of business and its registered office. -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From rsmethurst at UK.EY.COM Tue Mar 16 10:53:42 2004 From: rsmethurst at UK.EY.COM (rsmethurst at UK.EY.COM) Date: Tue, 16 Mar 2004 16:53:42 +0000 Subject: [AccessD] Framework Discussion - Implements Message-ID: Thanks John...as always, very helpful. Ryan This e-mail and any attachment are confidential and contain proprietary information, some or all of which may be legally privileged. It is intended solely for the use of the individual or entity to which it is addressed. If you are not the intended recipient, please notify the author immediately by telephone or by replying to this e-mail, and then delete all copies of the e-mail on your system. If you are not the intended recipient, you must not use, disclose, distribute, copy, print or rely on this e-mail. Whilst we have taken reasonable precautions to ensure that this e-mail and any attachment has been checked for viruses, we cannot guarantee that they are virus free and we cannot accept liability for any damage sustained as a result of software viruses. We would advise that you carry out your own virus checks, especially before opening an attachment. The UK firm Ernst & Young LLP is a limited liability partnership registered in England and Wales with registered number OC300001 and is a member practice of Ernst & Young Global. A list of members? names is available for inspection at 1 More London Place, London, SE1 2AF, the firm?s principal place of business and its registered office. From rjhjr at cox.net Tue Mar 16 11:02:41 2004 From: rjhjr at cox.net (Bob Hall) Date: Tue, 16 Mar 2004 12:02:41 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Framework Discussion - Dependent Objects In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <20040316170240.GC86196@kongemord.krig.net> Hi John, On Tue, Mar 16, 2004 at 10:54:40AM -0500, John W. Colby wrote: > Overloading means inheriting a parent class, then taking a defined method in > the parent class, and writing the exact same syntax function call replacing > the functionality with something different. Dog "Barks", Daschund "barks" > but entirely differently. I inherit dog, and then write a new "bark" method > changing the code (usually but not always writing entirely new code) to > change what happens when the user calls my bark method. I then save that as > a Daschund object of the dog lineage. Overloading doesn't involve inheritence, and the syntax of the function call can change. The definition is that the same function name (or operator symbol) is used with different parameters (or operands). For example, I can overload DrawSolid() so that it draws a four-sided solid when passed four points, and a five-sided solid when passed five points. I don't do this by inheritence; I just write a new definition of DrawSolid(). What you describe above is polymorphism. Bob Hall From cfoust at infostatsystems.com Tue Mar 16 11:20:49 2004 From: cfoust at infostatsystems.com (Charlotte Foust) Date: Tue, 16 Mar 2004 09:20:49 -0800 Subject: [AccessD] Framework Discussion - Implements Message-ID: There was quite a discussion of Implements vs WithEvents back in January. You might want to search the archives for it. Charlotte Foust -----Original Message----- From: rsmethurst at uk.ey.com [mailto:rsmethurst at uk.ey.com] Sent: Tuesday, March 16, 2004 8:54 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] Framework Discussion - Implements Thanks John...as always, very helpful. Ryan This e-mail and any attachment are confidential and contain proprietary information, some or all of which may be legally privileged. It is intended solely for the use of the individual or entity to which it is addressed. If you are not the intended recipient, please notify the author immediately by telephone or by replying to this e-mail, and then delete all copies of the e-mail on your system. If you are not the intended recipient, you must not use, disclose, distribute, copy, print or rely on this e-mail. Whilst we have taken reasonable precautions to ensure that this e-mail and any attachment has been checked for viruses, we cannot guarantee that they are virus free and we cannot accept liability for any damage sustained as a result of software viruses. We would advise that you carry out your own virus checks, especially before opening an attachment. The UK firm Ernst & Young LLP is a limited liability partnership registered in England and Wales with registered number OC300001 and is a member practice of Ernst & Young Global. A list of members? names is available for inspection at 1 More London Place, London, SE1 2AF, the firm?s principal place of business and its registered office. -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From cfoust at infostatsystems.com Tue Mar 16 11:23:30 2004 From: cfoust at infostatsystems.com (Charlotte Foust) Date: Tue, 16 Mar 2004 09:23:30 -0800 Subject: [AccessD] Framework Discussion - Dependent Objects Message-ID: Unfortunately, however you define it, Access VBA does not allow overloading OR polymorphism OR inheritance. If the discussion is going to degenerate into hair splitting, then I think the mods (and JC) should consider ending it. Charlotte Foust -----Original Message----- From: Bob Hall [mailto:rjhjr at cox.net] Sent: Tuesday, March 16, 2004 9:03 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Framework Discussion - Dependent Objects Hi John, On Tue, Mar 16, 2004 at 10:54:40AM -0500, John W. Colby wrote: > Overloading means inheriting a parent class, then taking a defined > method in the parent class, and writing the exact same syntax function > call replacing the functionality with something different. Dog > "Barks", Daschund "barks" but entirely differently. I inherit dog, > and then write a new "bark" method changing the code (usually but not > always writing entirely new code) to change what happens when the user > calls my bark method. I then save that as a Daschund object of the > dog lineage. Overloading doesn't involve inheritence, and the syntax of the function call can change. The definition is that the same function name (or operator symbol) is used with different parameters (or operands). For example, I can overload DrawSolid() so that it draws a four-sided solid when passed four points, and a five-sided solid when passed five points. I don't do this by inheritence; I just write a new definition of DrawSolid(). What you describe above is polymorphism. Bob Hall -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com Tue Mar 16 11:38:06 2004 From: jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com (John W. Colby) Date: Tue, 16 Mar 2004 12:38:06 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Framework Discussion - Dependent Objects In-Reply-To: <200403161645.LAA13642@jake.bcentralhost.com> Message-ID: Oooops. It's been too long since I actually worked in a real OOP language. Thanks for clarifying that. So overloading changes the definition in terms of the parameters passed, overriding changes the definition in terms of behavior. I assume you can override and overload at the same time? And as far as I can tell, in Access you can't override or overload since you can't inherit. Actually you could implement a crude form of inheritance manually, by building a class which dimensions a variable of the type of the "parent class", somehow telling the class what instance the parent was, then writing exactly the same methods and so forth, passing the calls to the child up to the parent. It would be extremely clumsy, in fact it would look very much like... wrappers around objects! ;-) Anyway, thanks for jumping in there with that correction. I used to know that stuff, but it was too long ago that I actually earned a living writing to an OOP language. Plus I'm getting old and the memory is failing. 8-( John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of James Barash Sent: Tuesday, March 16, 2004 11:46 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: [AccessD] Framework Discussion - Dependent Objects John, I'm not trying to get in the middle of your discussion but I think you are using the wrong definition of "overloading", at least in terms of OO programming. Overloading refers to defining the same method or property with different signatures. In other words, if you define a method but want to be able to pass different parameters, you "overload" the method by defining it more than once,with each definition having different parameters. As long as you are passing different types or number of parameters, it will work in an OO language. In VB.net, there is no variant type so if you need to pass different types to a function, you would have multiple definitions, one for each data type you might need. What you are defining is "overriding", where the inherited class definition of a property or method "overrides" that of the base class. That way, your inherited class can have different functionality than the base class. When overriding, the property or method must have the same signature as that of the base class. As far as I've been able to tell, there is no "overloading" in Access, but you can, to some extent, "override" I'm been very impressed by your explainations of your framework, at least as much as I've been able to read, and I'm not in any way trying to start an argument, but clearly the differences in the definition of terms is causing disagreements. James Barash -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of John W. Colby Sent: Tuesday, March 16, 2004 10:55 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] Framework Discussion - Dependent Objects Jim, I certainly don't want to squash discussion and I don't want to hurt your feelings or anyone else's. I am not exactly taking it personally, however it does feel as if I am "defending" trying to extend the capabilities of Access using a class and frameworks using comparison against tools that simply don't compare. IT simply isn't useful to discuss Access in terms of FoxPro, or .NET, C++, VB. I mean it is useful to do that, if the objective is to decide whether or not to use Access or simply move to something else for the capabilities that the something else provides. What isn't useful is to compare what can be done "in terms of" that something else. >I'm not sure what you think I mean by "overloading" Overloading means inheriting a parent class, then taking a defined method in the parent class, and writing the exact same syntax function call replacing the functionality with something different. Dog "Barks", Daschund "barks" but entirely differently. I inherit dog, and then write a new "bark" method changing the code (usually but not always writing entirely new code) to change what happens when the user calls my bark method. I then save that as a Daschund object of the dog lineage. If you are going to use OO phrases and keywords I am going to respond that that isn't useful. While defining "overloading" as adding more methods and properties to a class is a humorous definition (makes me envision a poor boat class sinking under the waves) it is not what the word means, and I was responding to an apparent (to me) attempt to apply OO terminology to a patently non OO environment. >And this was exactly my point. Your choice was either to create a new class in the Framework to handle a text control with a popup calendar or add properties and methods to a single class so it can do both jobs. Let's be clear (I think I already have but...) I don't add 13 different text box classes. There is a single textbox class and my form's control scanner loads that class for every text box it encounters. You could if you desired use a system of 13 different text box classes if you wanted to use a naming convention where you used something like txtAXXX txtBXXX etc and then in the scanner parsed the first 4 characters of the text box to discover which class to load. The problem with doing this is that now the framework only works with your specific naming convention. >I'm not telling you do to anything. I was trying to add to the discussion, pointing out that performance is based on design decisions that are made in the framework. You are taking an OOP approach and the same fundamentals apply no matter which language your dealing with. And I am trying to point out that to a large extent my design decisions are made for me by Microsoft's denial of OO capabilities to Office programmers. I am not taking an OOP approach, I am using a pitiful tool to the best of my abilities. I am NOT taking an OOP approach. I am using a class to wrap an object. I am NOT taking an OOP approach. Access and Office does NOT have OOP tools in any significant meaning of the word. It does have classes, and it has Withevents. These devices (along with the forms and controls) are called objects, so you could say I am doing OBJECT PROGRAMMING, but that is not the same as OBJECT ORIENTED PROGRAMMING. Those classes and controls cannot be inherited, I can't overload their methods (since I can't inherit them), these classes are just an object defined in and of themselves and stand alone. I am doing nothing more or less than wrapping an object in a class and adding new methods and properties using the class. That is NOT an OOP approach because I don't have OOP tools to approach the task with! As for some fundamentals applying... I will grant you that a developer could design 13 text box classes if they wished. Or take all of that functionality and put it in a single text box class. So whereas you as a FoxPro developer can sit there for months trying to define which level of inheritance you want to put the bark method at, I get to make a decision (in about 15 minutes) as to whether I use 13 text box classes or one. I did think about this long ago ad decided (in about 15 minutes) that it ultimately did not make sense to maintain 13 text box classes, that the additional code and properties in a single class was not excessive overhead and that was that. >I would love to see someone do a commercial framework for Access. But after 10 years of existence, one has to ask themselves why there are not a truck load of them already. There are many reasons. 1) Programmers who use frameworks expect a system that they can just inherit and add their own stuff to - see your own posts!!! That simply isn't possible with Access. Thus they are left with using the framework as is and funneling change requests to the developer, and perhaps never seeing their requests implemented, or "rolling their own". 2) Access as an environment is entirely different form other development environments in that data stores are done in MDBs, there is the FE/BE split issue, and where do you put the table data for the framework, the framework relative to the FE (application), back end (it can talk to SQL Server and other data stores as well) so that changes aren't overwritten by the next rev of the framework. Little problems that get in the way. Most Access developers don't want to have to think about these things because it can make your head hurt. 3) There are so many "access developers" who don't have a clue what a library is much less what a framework is, and so few (percentage wise) that do understand all of these issues. Where is the market? What are the support costs? Imagine selling a thousand copies and then getting 900 phone calls (or emails) a day for the rest of your life asking how to do something. The unfortunate reality is that Access has a huge percentage of "power users calling themselves developers", and a miniscule percentage of IT trained professionals selecting Access as their primary tool. >You asked for input about the design of frameworks and I've brought up a few issues (performance and distribution of new versions). If you don't want to address them and explore these areas then fine. But if that's the case, then don't ask for the input in the first place. And I have responded re performance. As far as I can tell (and I have been using my framework for many years in various implementations) performance simply isn't an issue for all the reasons I outlined. I encourage you and anyone else to explore this for themselves. I did extensive timings of classes loading and unloading, using forms that loaded a TON of controls (not useful forms, just forms that I copied hundreds of controls onto for testing purposes). I then timed the open (with NO FORM / CONTROL DATA LOADING) so that I could get a sense of the load / unload times of classes. My conclusion using an OLD SLOW computer was that each class took under 1/2 millisecond to load. With my current workstation a form with 288 control classes plus the form class took 60 milli-seconds to run the control scanner and load the classes for those controls (I just built a test form to time that)! Sure, further performance analysis is always welcome but that should at least give a rough feeling for the speed of things. As for distributions (I guess I missed that in your previous post) that is only an issue if the developer who buys the framework expects to "overload it". If they do then they need to be gently reminded that Access is not OO and to go elsewhere if that is their expectation! "What you get is what you get" and if you need additional things you request hooks or simply do things that aren't framework supported on a form by form, control by control basis. After all, if they are not using a framework, they are already doing exactly that except with ALL of their functionality! Or build their own framework. My article series is showing this list exactly how to do that. So Jim, lets discuss frameworks by all means. Just don't bother trying to discuss it in comparison to things it isn't. As some famous philosopher once said (roughly): "It isn't useful to try and teach a pig to sing. It won't work and you'll just piss off the pig". Access can do a very few things to make your life better when it comes to frameworks. I will discuss for hours the merits of building 13 text box classes vs. one, why you would do one, why you would do the other, how you would implement the system if you chose to do so. But to try to cast it in the light of OOP programming just obfuscates the reality... it ain't. Please don't go away mad, in fact don't go away at all. Just approach the subject from an angle that allows us to perform a useful engineering analysis of what can be done with the tools we have. We have classes, and we have withevents. We have objects (controls and classes), none of which can be inherited or anything that goes along with inheritance. Those are the ground rules. How can we do something useful with that in the context of a framework? John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Jim Dettman Sent: Tuesday, March 16, 2004 9:07 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] Framework Discussion - Dependent Objects John, I'm not sure what you think I mean by "overloading", but what I'm saying is that you have a choice: You either build numerous classes to handle specific behavior or you overload a single class with more properties and methods to make it handle more then one type of behavior. <> And this was exactly my point. Your choice was either to create a new class in the Framework to handle a text control with a popup calendar or add properties and methods to a single class so it can do both jobs. <> I'm not telling you do to anything. I was trying to add to the discussion, pointing out that performance is based on design decisions that are made in the framework. You are taking an OOP approach and the same fundamentals apply no matter which language your dealing with. I don't understand why your taking this so personally. I never said that what you were doing was not worth it. I was discussing frameworks in general. This has nothing to do with me leaving Access for VFP, which I have not (I still use both tools on a regular basis). I would love to see someone do a commercial framework for Access. But after 10 years of existence, one has to ask themselves why there are not a truck load of them already. You asked for input about the design of frameworks and I've brought up a few issues (performance and distribution of new versions). If you don't want to address them and explore these areas then fine. But if that's the case, then don't ask for the input in the first place. Jim (315) 699-3443 jimdettman at earthlink.net -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com Tue Mar 16 11:40:15 2004 From: jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com (John W. Colby) Date: Tue, 16 Mar 2004 12:40:15 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Framework Discussion - Dependent Objects In-Reply-To: <20040316170240.GC86196@kongemord.krig.net> Message-ID: Yea, so I now understand. Sorry for the confusion. All I really know is that absolutely NONE of that stuff applies to Access, which was what I was attempting to point out. "Talk OOP stuff and you might as well take it to a list where that matters." John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Bob Hall Sent: Tuesday, March 16, 2004 12:03 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Framework Discussion - Dependent Objects Hi John, On Tue, Mar 16, 2004 at 10:54:40AM -0500, John W. Colby wrote: > Overloading means inheriting a parent class, then taking a defined method in > the parent class, and writing the exact same syntax function call replacing > the functionality with something different. Dog "Barks", Daschund "barks" > but entirely differently. I inherit dog, and then write a new "bark" method > changing the code (usually but not always writing entirely new code) to > change what happens when the user calls my bark method. I then save that as > a Daschund object of the dog lineage. Overloading doesn't involve inheritence, and the syntax of the function call can change. The definition is that the same function name (or operator symbol) is used with different parameters (or operands). For example, I can overload DrawSolid() so that it draws a four-sided solid when passed four points, and a five-sided solid when passed five points. I don't do this by inheritence; I just write a new definition of DrawSolid(). What you describe above is polymorphism. Bob Hall -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com Tue Mar 16 11:42:15 2004 From: jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com (John W. Colby) Date: Tue, 16 Mar 2004 12:42:15 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Framework Discussion - Implements In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Yea, unfortunately a lot of discussion and NO working examples! I hate that! John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Charlotte Foust Sent: Tuesday, March 16, 2004 12:21 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] Framework Discussion - Implements There was quite a discussion of Implements vs WithEvents back in January. You might want to search the archives for it. Charlotte Foust -----Original Message----- From: rsmethurst at uk.ey.com [mailto:rsmethurst at uk.ey.com] Sent: Tuesday, March 16, 2004 8:54 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] Framework Discussion - Implements Thanks John...as always, very helpful. Ryan This e-mail and any attachment are confidential and contain proprietary information, some or all of which may be legally privileged. It is intended solely for the use of the individual or entity to which it is addressed. If you are not the intended recipient, please notify the author immediately by telephone or by replying to this e-mail, and then delete all copies of the e-mail on your system. If you are not the intended recipient, you must not use, disclose, distribute, copy, print or rely on this e-mail. Whilst we have taken reasonable precautions to ensure that this e-mail and any attachment has been checked for viruses, we cannot guarantee that they are virus free and we cannot accept liability for any damage sustained as a result of software viruses. We would advise that you carry out your own virus checks, especially before opening an attachment. The UK firm Ernst & Young LLP is a limited liability partnership registered in England and Wales with registered number OC300001 and is a member practice of Ernst & Young Global. A list of members? names is available for inspection at 1 More London Place, London, SE1 2AF, the firm?s principal place of business and its registered office. -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From stuart at lexacorp.com.pg Tue Mar 16 12:02:28 2004 From: stuart at lexacorp.com.pg (Stuart McLachlan) Date: Wed, 17 Mar 2004 04:02:28 +1000 Subject: [AccessD] OT - Internet Explorer 6.0 In-Reply-To: <33323297.1079446902283.JavaMail.www@wwinf3005> Message-ID: <4057CDD4.29689.148E35@localhost> On 16 Mar 2004 at 15:21, paul.hartland at fsmail.net wrote: > > windows 98SE is what I have at home > > First thing is to find out is what DNS Server your PC is using - this is probably set by your ISP when he allocates your IP Addresses. Look in your network settings and look at the TCP/IP settings for your internet connection. See whether you have DNS server(s) hard configured or whether you are set up to get one automatically when you get your IP address. Then you need to see what your current DNS Server is. IIRC in W9x, (I'm working from memory here, in W2K you use IPCONFIG /ALL), you need to open a command prompt and type WINIPCFG. That should give you a box containing details of your current IP configuration, hopefully showing the current DNS Server(s). Now from a command prompt, try pinging the address of the DNS server. If it times out, you have found your problem - you can't reach it. If you can ping it, try pinging something like microsoft.com - if you get an 'Unknwon host" returned rather than an IP address for microsoft, there is a problem at the DNS Server. If it returns a valid ping, then we need to start looking elsewhere. -- Lexacorp Ltd http://www.lexacorp.com.pg Information Technology Consultancy, Software Development,System Support. From KIsmert at TexasSystems.com Tue Mar 16 12:05:40 2004 From: KIsmert at TexasSystems.com (Ken Ismert) Date: Tue, 16 Mar 2004 12:05:40 -0600 Subject: [AccessD] Re: [Private] Framework Discussion - Dependent Objects In-Reply-To: <11927622088.20040316160014@cactus.dk> Message-ID: <018e01c40b81$4b8fab90$2a3ca8c0@TEXASSYSTEMS.COM> My miscellaneous observations: (Colby, Fri 3/12/2004) >I am open to interfaces, assuming that you can present a case for a >significant advantage ... Am I getting early binding out of this so >that Intellisense works? If so can I "get at" all of the class >properties, i.e. not just those implemented? Yes, you will get early binding and Intellisense, if you use interfaces. No, you won't get all of the class properties of the underlying object VIA THE INTERFACE. But you can still get at them. Drawing on Drew's example: Dim rFWC As FrameWorkControl Dim rCbo As Access.ComboBox Set rFWC = New FWComboBox Set rFWC.LinkedObject = cboMyCombo ' do FrameWorkControl things ... If rFWC.ObjectType = "ComboBox" Then Set rCbo = rFWC.LinkedObject ' do Combo things ... Set rCbo = Nothing End If The point is you can use the generic methods of the interface and the specific combobox methods, and still preserve early binding. (Brock, Tue 3/16/2004) > ... Also, and seriously, I find my forms so diverse and often highly >specialized as I can't see a framework fit in and certainly not worth >spending the time to build it ... This is one of the big challenges of frameworks: no matter how suited it is for you, it often won't fit the unique requirements of others. You can never build a framework that is big enough for everybody. However, frameworks can have a payoff in standardization and consistency, provided that the cost to build and implement them are kept to a reasonable level. Which brings us back to the case for interfaces. They are the best way (in VB6) to provide: * Standardization - An interface allows you to define a common set of behaviors for a group of objects. * Extensibility - Interfaces allow you to extend your framework in a consistent, controlled way. This has two benefits: First, helps keep your initial investment lower. Define your interface, build only what you need, and move on. Second, it allows others to more easily extend the framework to fit their own unique requirements. When Microsoft wanted to allow VB programmers a standard way to extend Office, they provided the Office Add-In framework, which implemented the IDTExtensibility2 interface. This is the COM way of allowing extensibility. -Ken From shait at mindspring.com Tue Mar 16 12:19:36 2004 From: shait at mindspring.com (Stephen Hait) Date: Tue, 16 Mar 2004 13:19:36 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] OT - Internet Explorer 6.0 In-Reply-To: <4057CDD4.29689.148E35@localhost> References: <33323297.1079446902283.JavaMail.www@wwinf3005> Message-ID: <4056FEE8.9804.22D0D86A@localhost> > If you can ping it, try pinging something like microsoft.com - if > you get an 'Unknwon host" returned rather than an IP address for > microsoft, there is a problem at the DNS Server. One note: I don't believe Microsoft servers respond to ping commands. Instead you might try ping yahoo.com. Stephen From tortise at paradise.net.nz Tue Mar 16 12:19:28 2004 From: tortise at paradise.net.nz (Tortise) Date: Wed, 17 Mar 2004 07:19:28 +1300 Subject: [AccessD] Memo Locked - Apparently, but not that I can find!!! References: <002d01c3ef36$01999260$1e00a8c0@cheqsoft.local> <1196581313.20040316100933@cactus.dk> Message-ID: <01f201c40b83$38378340$1e00a8c0@cheqsoft.local> Dear Gustav We haven't cracked this one yet, it works most of the time and we've had other priorities. The refresh I referred to was a simple Shift-F9 on the form. That proved to only sometimes work, as did repairing and or compacting only sometimes loosen the lock. Only the memo fields lock. It may be related to running a second A2003 database simultaneously, I am not sure. The best fix when all else fails seems to be shut down both databases and reopen. (!) Lastly the problem seems to only occur when you have a record you want to urgently edit. Actually that may be significant, it never is a new record, it is always an existing memo that is being edited and attempted to save. Our problem occurs running A2003 on a W2003 Server. I am sorry I am not able to be more helpful, at this juncture. Kind regards David Hingston MB ChB MBA Director Chequers Software Ltd Wellington, New Zealand. http://www.cheqsoft.com CheqSoft is associated with the Technology Entrepreneur Centre Crafters of iconic system tray software: => Break Reminder - for safe and efficient PC use => TimesOwn - multi time zone clock and calculator => Clipboard Express - drag n drop database saves serious time => MP3Detective - MP3 player manager => Engines2go - faster Internet searching ____________________________________________________________ The information in this email and in any attachment (s) is confidential and may be legally privileged. If you are not the named addressee's) or if you receive this email in error then any distribution, copying or use of this communication or the information in it is strictly prohibited. Please notify the sender immediately by return email and then delete the message from your computer. Thank you for your assistance. ____________________________________________________________ ----- Original Message ----- From: Gustav Brock To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Sent: Tuesday, March 16, 2004 10:09 PM Subject: Re: [AccessD] Memo Locked - Apparently, but not that I can find!!! Hi David I have a client fighting with this too. Could you be a little more specific on your solution, please? What are you refreshing and when? Which of the advices mentioned in the forum discussion did you implement? As I read it, you update (save) the record at the BeforeUpdate event of the memo field, then Cancel the update and refresh (requery?) the record? /gustav > Thanks John, > That gave me enough to resolve it. > Also Ref http://www.utteraccess.com/forums/access/access605200.html > For anyone else simply doing a refresh unlocks it! > Kind Regards > David > From: John W. Colby > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Sent: Tuesday, February 10, 2004 2:38 AM > Subject: RE: [AccessD] Memo Locked - Apparently, but not that I can find!!! > Memo fields are treated differently than the rest of the fields in a record. > They are simply pointers out to a storage area where the actual memo is > stored. Memos still have the "page locking" issue where if another user is > editing another memo that resides in the same physical page as your memo, > yours will be locked. > John W. Colby > www.ColbyConsulting.com > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Tortise > Sent: Monday, February 09, 2004 5:24 AM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: [AccessD] Memo Locked - Apparently, but not that I can find!!! > Hi > I have a database which intermittently reports memo fields as being locked. > However they are not! Editing the memo field it refuses to update on > attempted save, however text fields still update fine. (!) It is a database > from A2K, that went to A97, back to A2k and now is running (converted) in > A2k3. (Over time!) Repair and compaction makes no difference, neither does > logging off and back on to the windows session. > The same behaviour is exhibited when editing the table as it is from a form. > I'm stumped! > As always any guidance is appreciated. > Kind Regards > David -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com Tue Mar 16 12:34:47 2004 From: jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com (John W. Colby) Date: Tue, 16 Mar 2004 13:34:47 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Framework Discussion - Class performance Message-ID: I have had a lot of people worry, if you will, about loading hundreds of instances of various classes. What does this do in terms of memory? How does Access (VBA) handle the loading of this stuff? If I have a thousand lines of code in a text box class and load 100 text box classes, do I have 100,000 lines of code loads? What about variables? If a class loads, when the second instance loads is it using the same variables? What about static variables in procedures? In order to answer the "performance" issue perhaps it would be useful to talk about how classes do what they do. We are told, and I have no way to test it myself to find out, but we are told, that in a library an entire module loads at once. If you call a function in a library, every function in that module is loaded into memory. There is a lot of discussion about breaking modules down into tightly related functions so that we aren't loading a lot of code that isn't needed because we call only one function. I have already discussed my take on the matter, if I load the whole darned thing, my 5mbytes will be small potatoes to the footprint of my application, Access, Outlook, Word and Windows. But if you truly need something to worry about, you are of course welcomed to break your modules down into tiny little things so that only the exact functions you need get loaded. As for classes, by definition since I am loading a piece of that class, the whole banana is going to load. After that however when the second instance loads no more CODE loads, just like a second instance of any method in a regular module doesn't load over and over. When a function loads, a STACK is created onto which the arguments being passed in are placed. Also placed into that stack are the variables internal to the function, WITH THE EXCEPTION OF static variables. Static variables are placed on the HEAP which is a global area of memory allocated to the application by Windows. Variables declared in the header of ANY MODULE, class or otherwise are placed on the heap. What this means is that, for example, my class has a single Long Integer declared in the class header. As the class loads, ALL OF THE CODE loads, then memory is allocated by Access (VBA Actually) for that Long Integer on the heap. When I load a second instance of the class, I add exactly and ONLY one more Long Integer to the heap. No more code is loaded. Of course this isn't exactly true since in order to load that instance I have to declare a variable somewhere to hold a pointer to the class itself, but the concept remains that only the pointer to the class and the data in the header of the second instance of the class is actually "overhead" of that instance. So if I load a dclsFrm, all the code loads and all of the variables for that form. Load a second form and only the data for that second dclsFrm instance loads. Load 45 dclsCtlCbo instances and all of the code in dclsCtlCbo loads plus any variables in the header, after which 44 "headers" are loaded (the variables for 44 other instances). As you can see, once you load one, the overhead for the next 10 or 1000 is negligible - at least in terms of additional code and heap space. There may or may not be other "overhead" such as recordsets opened and data loaded into collections etc. That is indeed an issue, it is very real overhead, and it can't be discounted. We as class designers need to be aware of how this stuff works, what is and isn't loaded for each instance of any given class, and how that might influence performance. I do a lot of stuff with collections. I load a SysVar class which loads off of disk dozens of SysVars into collections. Yes, that is real overhead for that class, and I can calculate roughly how much memory is used and how long it takes to get the data off the disk and into the collection. Having done that however, it sits there in memory until the application closes. My app runs faster because I used a few thousand bytes of memory to just load the SysVars instead of getting them off the disk every time I want to know the value of the SysVar. I do not intend to make light of the overhead of class programming. If you are attempting to squeeze this stuff into a Win98 box with 32 megs of memory, a framework probably isn't the way to proceed. On the other hand if you are developing an app for a small company with 5 computers, the development time a Framework can save you, and the difference in your bill to the client, just might buy the client all new hardware. Which would the client prefer? New 2ghz machines costing $1,000 apiece or a bill of an additional $5000 for your time? Frameworks can save a LOT of programming effort in many cases. There are those out there who have never tried them, can't really get a handle on how they work, and will just dismiss them as "can't possibly help me". There are others who have already built their own and know what I am talking about. And yes, there may be one or two who truly don't do things that a framework would be useful for. I can't say I've ever met anyone ... ;-) John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com From jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com Tue Mar 16 12:44:23 2004 From: jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com (John W. Colby) Date: Tue, 16 Mar 2004 13:44:23 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Re: [Private] Framework Discussion - Dependent Objects In-Reply-To: <018e01c40b81$4b8fab90$2a3ca8c0@TEXASSYSTEMS.COM> Message-ID: Ken, >Yes, you will get early binding and Intellisense, if you use interfaces. No, you won't get all of the class properties of the underlying object VIA THE INTERFACE. I was afraid of that. I assume that "all of the advantages of early binding" means speed. Intellisense only deals with parent properties and (in my specific case) my individual "sub classes" if you will have MANY more methods that I can't Intellisense. I have a specific set of Framework Class Interface variables and methods and yes, it would be nice to have that predefined and just "inherited" (or implemented) but in the end that is like implementing 1/4th of my head when I need my whole body. Again, I can see other places where it might very well be a major portion of the whole and very useful. Would you work with me offline to define this framework interface class and show me how to Implement that in all of my framework classes? When it comes to defining interfaces I will take all the help I can get. John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Ken Ismert Sent: Tuesday, March 16, 2004 1:06 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: [AccessD] Re: [Private] Framework Discussion - Dependent Objects My miscellaneous observations: (Colby, Fri 3/12/2004) >I am open to interfaces, assuming that you can present a case for a >significant advantage ... Am I getting early binding out of this so >that Intellisense works? If so can I "get at" all of the class >properties, i.e. not just those implemented? Yes, you will get early binding and Intellisense, if you use interfaces. No, you won't get all of the class properties of the underlying object VIA THE INTERFACE. But you can still get at them. Drawing on Drew's example: Dim rFWC As FrameWorkControl Dim rCbo As Access.ComboBox Set rFWC = New FWComboBox Set rFWC.LinkedObject = cboMyCombo ' do FrameWorkControl things ... If rFWC.ObjectType = "ComboBox" Then Set rCbo = rFWC.LinkedObject ' do Combo things ... Set rCbo = Nothing End If The point is you can use the generic methods of the interface and the specific combobox methods, and still preserve early binding. (Brock, Tue 3/16/2004) > ... Also, and seriously, I find my forms so diverse and often highly >specialized as I can't see a framework fit in and certainly not worth >spending the time to build it ... This is one of the big challenges of frameworks: no matter how suited it is for you, it often won't fit the unique requirements of others. You can never build a framework that is big enough for everybody. However, frameworks can have a payoff in standardization and consistency, provided that the cost to build and implement them are kept to a reasonable level. Which brings us back to the case for interfaces. They are the best way (in VB6) to provide: * Standardization - An interface allows you to define a common set of behaviors for a group of objects. * Extensibility - Interfaces allow you to extend your framework in a consistent, controlled way. This has two benefits: First, helps keep your initial investment lower. Define your interface, build only what you need, and move on. Second, it allows others to more easily extend the framework to fit their own unique requirements. When Microsoft wanted to allow VB programmers a standard way to extend Office, they provided the Office Add-In framework, which implemented the IDTExtensibility2 interface. This is the COM way of allowing extensibility. -Ken -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From gustav at cactus.dk Tue Mar 16 12:43:08 2004 From: gustav at cactus.dk (Gustav Brock) Date: Tue, 16 Mar 2004 19:43:08 +0100 Subject: [AccessD] Memo Locked - Apparently, but not that I can find!!! In-Reply-To: <01f201c40b83$38378340$1e00a8c0@cheqsoft.local> References: <002d01c3ef36$01999260$1e00a8c0@cheqsoft.local> <1196581313.20040316100933@cactus.dk> <01f201c40b83$38378340$1e00a8c0@cheqsoft.local> Message-ID: <6140995608.20040316194308@cactus.dk> Hi David Thanks! Of course I hoped you had solved it but any info is useful. My client is running A97 but I'm not sure that makes much of a difference regarding this. Tell me please, are you running the frontends as separate copies on the workstations or are you sharing one copy on the server? I ask because I've done the strange observation that when running a shared copy the locking issue seems rare ... it doesn't make sense, I'll have to test further here. /gustav > Dear Gustav > We haven't cracked this one yet, it works most of the time and we've had other priorities. > The refresh I referred to was a simple Shift-F9 on the form. That proved to only sometimes work, as did repairing and or compacting only sometimes loosen the lock. Only the memo fields lock. > It may be related to running a second A2003 database simultaneously, I am not sure. > The best fix when all else fails seems to be shut down both databases and reopen. (!) > Lastly the problem seems to only occur when you have a record you want to urgently edit. Actually that may be significant, it never is a new record, it is always an existing memo that is being > edited and attempted to save. > Our problem occurs running A2003 on a W2003 Server. > I am sorry I am not able to be more helpful, at this juncture. > Kind regards > David Hingston MB ChB MBA > Director > Chequers Software Ltd > Wellington, New Zealand. > http://www.cheqsoft.com > CheqSoft is associated with the Technology Entrepreneur Centre > Hi David > I have a client fighting with this too. > Could you be a little more specific on your solution, please? > What are you refreshing and when? > Which of the advices mentioned in the forum discussion did you > implement? > As I read it, you update (save) the record at the BeforeUpdate event > of the memo field, then Cancel the update and refresh (requery?) the > record? > /gustav > > Thanks John, > > That gave me enough to resolve it. > > Also Ref http://www.utteraccess.com/forums/access/access605200.html > > For anyone else simply doing a refresh unlocks it! > > Kind Regards > > David > > From: John W. Colby > > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > > Sent: Tuesday, February 10, 2004 2:38 AM > > Subject: RE: [AccessD] Memo Locked - Apparently, but not that I can find!!! > > Memo fields are treated differently than the rest of the fields in a record. > > They are simply pointers out to a storage area where the actual memo is > > stored. Memos still have the "page locking" issue where if another user is > > editing another memo that resides in the same physical page as your memo, > > yours will be locked. > > John W. Colby > > www.ColbyConsulting.com > > -----Original Message----- > > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Tortise > > Sent: Monday, February 09, 2004 5:24 AM > > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > > Subject: [AccessD] Memo Locked - Apparently, but not that I can find!!! > > Hi > > I have a database which intermittently reports memo fields as being locked. > > However they are not! Editing the memo field it refuses to update on > > attempted save, however text fields still update fine. (!) It is a database > > from A2K, that went to A97, back to A2k and now is running (converted) in > > A2k3. (Over time!) Repair and compaction makes no difference, neither does > > logging off and back on to the windows session. > > The same behaviour is exhibited when editing the table as it is from a form. > > I'm stumped! > > As always any guidance is appreciated. > > Kind Regards > > David From KIsmert at TexasSystems.com Tue Mar 16 12:57:35 2004 From: KIsmert at TexasSystems.com (Ken Ismert) Date: Tue, 16 Mar 2004 12:57:35 -0600 Subject: [AccessD] Framework Discussion - Implements In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <018f01c40b88$8baf8450$2a3ca8c0@TEXASSYSTEMS.COM> Ryan, Implements means that a class exposes an interface defined by another class. An interface is simply the method signature of a class, that is, the names and parameter lists of all its public properties and methods. The implementer is responsible for two things: it must implement the entire interface, and it must provide all the functionality and code required to support the interface. Inheritance means that a class not only gets the interface of another class, but its code and functionality as well. The inheritor is relieved from having to implement the inherited interface, or to provide redundant functionality. Think of it as compiler-level wrapping. The inheritor can override certain methods and properties of the inherited class with its own, and it can add new methods and properties to extend the inherited class. Inheritance is more powerful than Implements. Implements is supported in VB6, A2K and later, while Inheritance is not. VB6/A2K supports polymorphism through interfaces. A class can implement more than one interface, and so appear as different object types to different users. -Ken PS. Regarding John's quote: >In other words, you define a class with PUBLIC variables (generally >considered a no-no) and a bunch of method and property STUBS. Once you have >done that you create other classes that "implements" the parent class. It >appears that the parent class' public variables magically become private in >the class that implements the parent object ... To clarify, Public variables are simply a way of defining properties in a class. Thus, these two classes are identical: [Class1] Public Value As Long [Class2] Private mlValue As Long Property Let Value(ValueIn As Long) mlValue = ValueIn End Property Property Get Value() As Long Value = mlValue End Property Public variables, while quick, give you less flexibility, because they are inherently read/write. The point is, if you use Implements Class1 in another class, you will only get the property signature: Property Let Class1_Value(ByVal RHS As Long) End Property Property Get Class1_Value() As Long End Property So, it is rather pointless to use public variables in your interface definitions. Stick with stub properties and methods. -----Original Message----- From: rsmethurst at UK.EY.COM [mailto:rsmethurst at UK.EY.COM] Sent: Tuesday, March 16, 2004 10:06 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] Framework Discussion - Implements Hi All, In light of all the mails about classes, frameworks and implementation etc. (most of which I am finding very interesting). Could someone explain to me the difference between the 'Implements' statement and how this is differs from inheritance. Thanks Ryan From tortise at paradise.net.nz Tue Mar 16 12:58:32 2004 From: tortise at paradise.net.nz (Tortise) Date: Wed, 17 Mar 2004 07:58:32 +1300 Subject: [AccessD] Memo Locked - Apparently, but not that I can find!!! References: <002d01c3ef36$01999260$1e00a8c0@cheqsoft.local> <1196581313.20040316100933@cactus.dk> <01f201c40b83$38378340$1e00a8c0@cheqsoft.local> <6140995608.20040316194308@cactus.dk> Message-ID: <022601c40b88$adb1b960$1e00a8c0@cheqsoft.local> Gustav.... I would dearly love to report we had cracked it too. Mmmmm Interesting. Your client may have a different issue. Our database worked seamlessly in both A97 and A2K. This problem only surfaced when we migrated into A2003. I've only seen it happen on the server, being used as a workstation also. (!) (It has the reserves!) We can run it as one shared copy from the server but I've not seen the problem in this way, as this database is mainly run on the server, so I've not been able to "make observations" on another PC. This database almost never runs more than one copy at a time also, so concurrent locking shouldn't be an issue!. As I said we do run concurrent A2003 databases, that are supposedly independent and distinct, (i.e. separate *.mdb file) however I am becoming interested whether this is true in A2003. Are they running more than one database on the same server? Kind regards David Hingston MB ChB MBA Director Chequers Software Ltd Wellington, New Zealand. http://www.cheqsoft.com CheqSoft is associated with the Technology Entrepreneur Centre Crafters of iconic system tray software: => Break Reminder - for safe and efficient PC use => TimesOwn - multi time zone clock and calculator => Clipboard Express - drag n drop database saves serious time => MP3Detective - MP3 player manager => Engines2go - faster Internet searching ____________________________________________________________ The information in this email and in any attachment (s) is confidential and may be legally privileged. If you are not the named addressee's) or if you receive this email in error then any distribution, copying or use of this communication or the information in it is strictly prohibited. Please notify the sender immediately by return email and then delete the message from your computer. Thank you for your assistance. ____________________________________________________________ ----- Original Message ----- From: Gustav Brock To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Sent: Wednesday, March 17, 2004 7:43 AM Subject: Re: [AccessD] Memo Locked - Apparently, but not that I can find!!! Hi David Thanks! Of course I hoped you had solved it but any info is useful. My client is running A97 but I'm not sure that makes much of a difference regarding this. Tell me please, are you running the frontends as separate copies on the workstations or are you sharing one copy on the server? I ask because I've done the strange observation that when running a shared copy the locking issue seems rare ... it doesn't make sense, I'll have to test further here. /gustav > Dear Gustav > We haven't cracked this one yet, it works most of the time and we've had other priorities. > The refresh I referred to was a simple Shift-F9 on the form. That proved to only sometimes work, as did repairing and or compacting only sometimes loosen the lock. Only the memo fields lock. > It may be related to running a second A2003 database simultaneously, I am not sure. > The best fix when all else fails seems to be shut down both databases and reopen. (!) > Lastly the problem seems to only occur when you have a record you want to urgently edit. Actually that may be significant, it never is a new record, it is always an existing memo that is being > edited and attempted to save. > Our problem occurs running A2003 on a W2003 Server. > I am sorry I am not able to be more helpful, at this juncture. > Kind regards > David Hingston MB ChB MBA > Director > Chequers Software Ltd > Wellington, New Zealand. > http://www.cheqsoft.com > CheqSoft is associated with the Technology Entrepreneur Centre > Hi David > I have a client fighting with this too. > Could you be a little more specific on your solution, please? > What are you refreshing and when? > Which of the advices mentioned in the forum discussion did you > implement? > As I read it, you update (save) the record at the BeforeUpdate event > of the memo field, then Cancel the update and refresh (requery?) the > record? > /gustav > > Thanks John, > > That gave me enough to resolve it. > > Also Ref http://www.utteraccess.com/forums/access/access605200.html > > For anyone else simply doing a refresh unlocks it! > > Kind Regards > > David > > From: John W. Colby > > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > > Sent: Tuesday, February 10, 2004 2:38 AM > > Subject: RE: [AccessD] Memo Locked - Apparently, but not that I can find!!! > > Memo fields are treated differently than the rest of the fields in a record. > > They are simply pointers out to a storage area where the actual memo is > > stored. Memos still have the "page locking" issue where if another user is > > editing another memo that resides in the same physical page as your memo, > > yours will be locked. > > John W. Colby > > www.ColbyConsulting.com > > -----Original Message----- > > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Tortise > > Sent: Monday, February 09, 2004 5:24 AM > > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > > Subject: [AccessD] Memo Locked - Apparently, but not that I can find!!! > > Hi > > I have a database which intermittently reports memo fields as being locked. > > However they are not! Editing the memo field it refuses to update on > > attempted save, however text fields still update fine. (!) It is a database > > from A2K, that went to A97, back to A2k and now is running (converted) in > > A2k3. (Over time!) Repair and compaction makes no difference, neither does > > logging off and back on to the windows session. > > The same behaviour is exhibited when editing the table as it is from a form. > > I'm stumped! > > As always any guidance is appreciated. > > Kind Regards > > David -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From tewald at comcast.net Tue Mar 16 13:32:30 2004 From: tewald at comcast.net (tewald at comcast.net) Date: Tue, 16 Mar 2004 19:32:30 +0000 Subject: [AccessD] Re: Access 2003 Developer Edition? Message-ID: <031620041932.6891.fcf@comcast.net> Date: Tue, 16 Mar 2004 07:33:57 -0600 Does this mean that you can't create runtime programs if you don't know .NET? Guess I need to hold onto my 2000 Developer's Edition. Tom Ewald From: "Robert L. Stewart" Subject: [AccessD] Re: Access 2003 Developer Edition? To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Cc: michael.broesdorf at web.de Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20040316073249.029f1820 at pop3.highstream.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed Michael, It is called Access 2003 Developer Extensions now. This is because of the hook into .NET Robert From reuben at gfconsultants.com Tue Mar 16 13:31:18 2004 From: reuben at gfconsultants.com (Reuben Cummings) Date: Tue, 16 Mar 2004 14:31:18 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Hyperlinks for the BEU In-Reply-To: <4056B405.28203.10F9D3@localhost> Message-ID: Thanks, Stuart. You were correct. Hopefully that's all we'll need. Reuben Cummings GFC, LLC phone: 812.523.1017 email: reuben at gfconsultants.com > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Stuart > McLachlan > Sent: Monday, March 15, 2004 5:00 PM > To: Access Developers discussion and problemsolving > Subject: Re: [AccessD] Hyperlinks for the BEU > > > On 15 Mar 2004 at 16:31, Reuben Cummings wrote: > > > Anyone know what makes a hyperlink different than a memo? > > > > What I mean is this: the value for a hyperlink and a memo is > 12 (that's 12 > > for both). However, the attributes are different. > > > > What I'm after is the differences that define one as a hyperlink and the > > other as a memo. > > > > Working on a new data type for the BEU and could use your help. > > > AFAIK, they're just ordinary memo fields with an attribute set > DAO.FieldAttributeEnum = dbHyperlinkField (&H8000) > > > > > > -- > Lexacorp Ltd > http://www.lexacorp.com.pg > Information Technology Consultancy, Software Development,System > Support. > > > > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > From gustav at cactus.dk Tue Mar 16 13:38:43 2004 From: gustav at cactus.dk (Gustav Brock) Date: Tue, 16 Mar 2004 20:38:43 +0100 Subject: [AccessD] Memo Locked - Apparently, but not that I can find!!! In-Reply-To: <022601c40b88$adb1b960$1e00a8c0@cheqsoft.local> References: <002d01c3ef36$01999260$1e00a8c0@cheqsoft.local> <1196581313.20040316100933@cactus.dk> <01f201c40b83$38378340$1e00a8c0@cheqsoft.local> <6140995608.20040316194308@cactus.dk> <022601c40b88$adb1b960$1e00a8c0@cheqsoft.local> Message-ID: <14244330443.20040316203843@cactus.dk> Hi David I see - it may be a different issue than yours. Yes, they are sharing two backend files on the server but locking only occurs in one of the files. They don't run any Access apps on the server. /gustav > Gustav.... > I would dearly love to report we had cracked it too. > Mmmmm Interesting. > Your client may have a different issue. Our database worked seamlessly in both A97 and A2K. This problem only surfaced when we migrated into A2003. > I've only seen it happen on the server, being used as a workstation also. (!) (It has the reserves!) We can run it as one shared copy from the server but I've not seen the problem in this way, as > this database is mainly run on the server, so I've not been able to "make observations" on another PC. This database almost never runs more than one copy at a time also, so concurrent locking > shouldn't be an issue!. As I said we do run concurrent A2003 databases, that are supposedly independent and distinct, (i.e. separate *.mdb file) however I am becoming interested whether this is > true in A2003. > Are they running more than one database on the same server? > Kind regards > David Hingston MB ChB MBA > Director > Chequers Software Ltd > Wellington, New Zealand. > http://www.cheqsoft.com > CheqSoft is associated with the Technology Entrepreneur Centre > Thanks! Of course I hoped you had solved it but any info is useful. > My client is running A97 but I'm not sure that makes much of a > difference regarding this. > Tell me please, are you running the frontends as separate copies on the > workstations or are you sharing one copy on the server? I ask because > I've done the strange observation that when running a shared copy the > locking issue seems rare ... it doesn't make sense, I'll have to test > further here. > /gustav > > Dear Gustav > > We haven't cracked this one yet, it works most of the time and we've had other priorities. > > The refresh I referred to was a simple Shift-F9 on the form. That proved to only sometimes work, as did repairing and or compacting only sometimes loosen the lock. Only the memo fields lock. > > It may be related to running a second A2003 database simultaneously, I am not sure. > > The best fix when all else fails seems to be shut down both databases and reopen. (!) > > Lastly the problem seems to only occur when you have a record you want to urgently edit. Actually that may be significant, it never is a new record, it is always an existing memo that is being > > edited and attempted to save. > > Our problem occurs running A2003 on a W2003 Server. > > I am sorry I am not able to be more helpful, at this juncture. > > Kind regards > > David Hingston MB ChB MBA > > Director > > Chequers Software Ltd > > Wellington, New Zealand. > > http://www.cheqsoft.com > > CheqSoft is associated with the Technology Entrepreneur Centre > > Hi David > > I have a client fighting with this too. > > Could you be a little more specific on your solution, please? > > What are you refreshing and when? > > Which of the advices mentioned in the forum discussion did you > > implement? > > As I read it, you update (save) the record at the BeforeUpdate event > > of the memo field, then Cancel the update and refresh (requery?) the > > record? > > /gustav > > > Thanks John, > > > That gave me enough to resolve it. > > > Also Ref http://www.utteraccess.com/forums/access/access605200.html > > > For anyone else simply doing a refresh unlocks it! > > > Kind Regards > > > David > > > From: John W. Colby > > > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > > > Sent: Tuesday, February 10, 2004 2:38 AM > > > Subject: RE: [AccessD] Memo Locked - Apparently, but not that I can find!!! > > > Memo fields are treated differently than the rest of the fields in a record. > > > They are simply pointers out to a storage area where the actual memo is > > > stored. Memos still have the "page locking" issue where if another user is > > > editing another memo that resides in the same physical page as your memo, > > > yours will be locked. > > > John W. Colby > > > www.ColbyConsulting.com > > > -----Original Message----- > > > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > > > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Tortise > > > Sent: Monday, February 09, 2004 5:24 AM > > > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > > > Subject: [AccessD] Memo Locked - Apparently, but not that I can find!!! > > > Hi > > > I have a database which intermittently reports memo fields as being locked. > > > However they are not! Editing the memo field it refuses to update on > > > attempted save, however text fields still update fine. (!) It is a database > > > from A2K, that went to A97, back to A2k and now is running (converted) in > > > A2k3. (Over time!) Repair and compaction makes no difference, neither does > > > logging off and back on to the windows session. > > > The same behaviour is exhibited when editing the table as it is from a form. > > > I'm stumped! > > > As always any guidance is appreciated. > > > Kind Regards > > > David From artful at rogers.com Tue Mar 16 16:47:18 2004 From: artful at rogers.com (Arthur Fuller) Date: Tue, 16 Mar 2004 14:47:18 -0800 Subject: [AccessD] Short Date Input Mask question In-Reply-To: <20040316064213.26974.qmail@web61107.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <000001c40ba8$a486de90$6501a8c0@rock> The standard short date input mask (99/99/0000;0;_) has a shortcoming that I hate: you have to type 04/04/04 to get April 4th 2004. The year handling is nice but the month and day suck. The mask won't let you type 4/4/04. Is there an alternative mask that will respond intelligently to such input? Or should I instead just remove all the input masks from all the date fields? TIA, Arthur From DWUTKA at marlow.com Tue Mar 16 13:59:28 2004 From: DWUTKA at marlow.com (DWUTKA at marlow.com) Date: Tue, 16 Mar 2004 13:59:28 -0600 Subject: [AccessD] Set up tables - Please Help Message-ID: <2F8793082E00D4119A1700B0D0216BF80222797E@main2.marlow.com> I think I really need to take a look at what you are trying to do. Can you send it to me offlist? I won't have a chance to look at it until later this week, or on the weekend. Drew -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Hollis,Virginia Sent: Tuesday, March 16, 2004 6:28 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: [AccessD] Set up tables - Please Help This is all taken from a hard copy of the current request form. The buyer completes the vendor request form with the vendor information. The form is used to add the new vendor information into a main database. The form provides the vendors name, billing information, type of business, etc. It does not list any items the company will buy from this vendor. Once the vendor information is added, then the company will issue POs, contracts to the new vendor (not part of this database). They just want to track the requests from the buyers. The form contains a lot of information about the vendor. When I create all the tables and join them to create a form for entering the information, it either comes up blank (no records) or I can't add any new records, one try it kept knocking my query out - I think because it was too long. Virginia -----Original Message----- From: DWUTKA at marlow.com [mailto:DWUTKA at marlow.com] Sent: Monday, March 15, 2004 3:45 PM To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: RE: [AccessD] Set up tables - Please Help Virginia, I think you are confusing Vendor with Purchase Order. A Vendor is just a peice of a Purchase Order, not the other way around. Drew -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Hollis,Virginia Sent: Saturday, March 13, 2004 10:46 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: [AccessD] Set up tables - Please Help tbl_Vendor contains all the data for the vendor; address, company name, etc. tbl_VendorMain could really be named tbl_RequestMain. tbl_VendorMain is where I thought I would store the combination of the data - VendorID, ContactID, BuyerID, RequestorID, DateRequested. -----Original Message----- From: Susan Harkins [mailto:ssharkins at bellsouth.net] Sent: Saturday, March 13, 2004 10:38 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: [AccessD] Set up tables - Please Help What's the difference between tbl_Vendor and tbl_VendorMain? Susan H. I have one table for each - tbl_Buyer, tbl_Contacts, tbl_Requestor, tbl_TypeBusiness, tbl_Vendor, tbl_VendorMain, tbl_Accounts. Tables buyer, vendor contacts, requestor store just the typical name, phone number, etc. -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From DWUTKA at marlow.com Tue Mar 16 14:00:05 2004 From: DWUTKA at marlow.com (DWUTKA at marlow.com) Date: Tue, 16 Mar 2004 14:00:05 -0600 Subject: [AccessD] Terminal Server and Access XP Message-ID: <2F8793082E00D4119A1700B0D0216BF80222797F@main2.marlow.com> If it works logged in as an Admin, then it's a permissions issue. Are the logged in users 'power users'? Drew -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Lonnie Johnson Sent: Tuesday, March 16, 2004 7:04 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] Terminal Server and Access XP Nope. I was kinda hoping there was. It works if we log onto the terminal server as administrator, but not as a regular user. Would this be at the registry level? DWUTKA at marlow.com wrote:Any missing references? Drew -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Lonnie Johnson Sent: Monday, March 15, 2004 3:56 PM To: 'MS-ACCESS-L at lists.missouri.edu'; AccessDevelopers; ms_access; AccessD solving' Subject: [AccessD] Terminal Server and Access XP Users are getting a "Run-Time error 13, type mis match" when the application tries to cycle through some controls with the following: Dim ctl as Control For Each ctl in Me.Controls... This works fine in A97 and XP on regular machines. It even works for the administrator on a terminal server machine, but not regular users on terminal server. Anyone have a clue????????? Lonnie Johnson ProDev, Professional Development of MS Access Databases Visit me at ==> http://www.prodev.us Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Mail - More reliable, more storage, less spam -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com Lonnie Johnson ProDev, Professional Development of MS Access Databases Visit me at ==> http://www.prodev.us Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Mail - More reliable, more storage, less spam -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From DWUTKA at marlow.com Tue Mar 16 14:03:20 2004 From: DWUTKA at marlow.com (DWUTKA at marlow.com) Date: Tue, 16 Mar 2004 14:03:20 -0600 Subject: [AccessD] Framework Discussion - Dependent Objects Message-ID: <2F8793082E00D4119A1700B0D0216BF802227980@main2.marlow.com> I see what both of you are saying on the issue. Let's not turn this into another bound/unbound discussion. It is all dependant on what type of projects you work on. If you find that you are building the same functionality into multiple projects, then a framework concept works great, because you are saving development time by doing it once. However, if you find that you are creating completely different projects, all of the time, then a framework doesn't help that much. Drew -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Jim Dettman Sent: Tuesday, March 16, 2004 8:07 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] Framework Discussion - Dependent Objects John, I'm not sure what you think I mean by "overloading", but what I'm saying is that you have a choice: You either build numerous classes to handle specific behavior or you overload a single class with more properties and methods to make it handle more then one type of behavior. <> And this was exactly my point. Your choice was either to create a new class in the Framework to handle a text control with a popup calendar or add properties and methods to a single class so it can do both jobs. <> I'm not telling you do to anything. I was trying to add to the discussion, pointing out that performance is based on design decisions that are made in the framework. You are taking an OOP approach and the same fundamentals apply no matter which language your dealing with. I don't understand why your taking this so personally. I never said that what you were doing was not worth it. I was discussing frameworks in general. This has nothing to do with me leaving Access for VFP, which I have not (I still use both tools on a regular basis). I would love to see someone do a commercial framework for Access. But after 10 years of existence, one has to ask themselves why there are not a truck load of them already. You asked for input about the design of frameworks and I've brought up a few issues (performance and distribution of new versions). If you don't want to address them and explore these areas then fine. But if that's the case, then don't ask for the input in the first place. Jim (315) 699-3443 jimdettman at earthlink.net -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of John W. Colby Sent: Monday, March 15, 2004 9:34 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] Framework Discussion - Dependent Objects Jim, > So you'll end up with lots of classes, unless I misunderstanding your intent. For example let's start with a base text box class. In a typical app, you can have text boxes that can be used for: 1. Text input 2. Input of a short date 3. Input of a short date and time. #2 and #3 are variations of #1 and contain some of the same behaviors and methods. So at the frame work level, I'm going to provide three classes or I'm going to do one class (text box) and overload it with properties to accomplish #2 and #3. But what your not doing is starting with #1, then creating #2 and #3 based on #1. Lets back up a minute and discuss this from a logical perspective. <> -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From michael.broesdorf at web.de Tue Mar 16 14:05:43 2004 From: michael.broesdorf at web.de (=?iso-8859-1?Q?Michael_Br=F6sdorf?=) Date: Tue, 16 Mar 2004 21:05:43 +0100 Subject: AW: [AccessD] Re: Access 2003 Developer Edition? In-Reply-To: <031620041932.6891.fcf@comcast.net> Message-ID: I was thinking that too! How about Access 2002? Michael -----Urspr?ngliche Nachricht----- Von: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]Im Auftrag von tewald at comcast.net Gesendet: Dienstag, 16. M?rz 2004 20:33 An: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Betreff: [AccessD] Re: Access 2003 Developer Edition? Date: Tue, 16 Mar 2004 07:33:57 -0600 Does this mean that you can't create runtime programs if you don't know .NET? Guess I need to hold onto my 2000 Developer's Edition. Tom Ewald From: "Robert L. Stewart" Subject: [AccessD] Re: Access 2003 Developer Edition? To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Cc: michael.broesdorf at web.de Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20040316073249.029f1820 at pop3.highstream.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed Michael, It is called Access 2003 Developer Extensions now. This is because of the hook into .NET Robert -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From DWUTKA at marlow.com Tue Mar 16 14:09:50 2004 From: DWUTKA at marlow.com (DWUTKA at marlow.com) Date: Tue, 16 Mar 2004 14:09:50 -0600 Subject: [AccessD] Re: [Private] Framework Discussion - Dependent Obje cts Message-ID: <2F8793082E00D4119A1700B0D0216BF802227981@main2.marlow.com> 'The days of Drew and JC'? LOL I'm in the same situation as you. I find that building a 'framework' isn't worth the effort, because I have to develop very diverse GUI's. It's not a matter of re-using features, it's a matter of building specific features to handle the task at hand. At my full time job, however, I have found that one of the best practices I can stick too, is to develop applications as 'stand-alone' objects, yet leave room for interaction. So if I develop a library application for our Drafting department, and later I develop a modeling package for the engineers, if I need access to the drafting library, I can just 'reference' the drafting department's .dll's. Makes life a lot easier. To me, that's what I call a framework. It's not a generic thing from a functionality standpoint, but more of a generic thing from a usability standpoint. Make sense? Drew -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Gustav Brock Sent: Tuesday, March 16, 2004 9:00 AM To: Jim Dettman Cc: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: [AccessD] Re: [Private] Framework Discussion - Dependent Objects Hi Jim Ha ha, hit by the Colby flames! Welcome to the club! I read it too and wondered - but I guess that's the way he is and that it doesn't mean so much. Remember the days of Drew and JC? Eventually they cooled down. And internationalization? He just loves his framework as a child, so I've chosen to keep my mouth shut. Also, and seriously, I find my forms so diverse and often highly specialized as I can't see a framework fit in and certainly not worth spending the time to build it. If inheritance was possible, I might reconsider, but I guess that won't ever happen. /gustav > I'm not telling you do to anything. I was trying to add to the > discussion, pointing out that performance is based on design decisions that > are made in the framework. You are taking an OOP approach and the same > fundamentals apply no matter which language your dealing with. > I don't understand why your taking this so personally. I never said that > what you were doing was not worth it. I was discussing frameworks in > general. This has nothing to do with me leaving Access for VFP, which I > have not (I still use both tools on a regular basis). I would love to see > someone do a commercial framework for Access. But after 10 years of > existence, one has to ask themselves why there are not a truck load of them > already. > You asked for input about the design of frameworks and I've brought up a > few issues (performance and distribution of new versions). If you don't > want to address them and explore these areas then fine. But if that's the > case, then don't ask for the input in the first place. -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From Bryan_Carbonnell at cbc.ca Tue Mar 16 14:15:53 2004 From: Bryan_Carbonnell at cbc.ca (Bryan Carbonnell) Date: Tue, 16 Mar 2004 15:15:53 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Short Date Input Mask question Message-ID: My vote would be to get rid of the input mask al together and use the Format Property to display it how you want. I Have done that with what I'm dealing with now. No input masks, just Formats on all the Date fields. That way the date can be entered just about however the user wants to enter it d-m-yy, d/m/yy, yy-mmm-d, yyyy-mmm-dd, m/d/yyyy, mm-dd-yy............. And Access formats it into yyyy-mmm-dd for my forms. Makes like so much easier when you are dealing with a 30 hour day!! Yep a broadcast day is 30 hours long Midnight to 0600 the following morning, or sign on, which ever comes first. Bryan Carbonnell bryan_carbonnell at cbc.ca >>> artful at rogers.com 16-Mar-04 5:47:18 PM >>> The standard short date input mask (99/99/0000;0;_) has a shortcoming that I hate: you have to type 04/04/04 to get April 4th 2004. The year handling is nice but the month and day suck. The mask won't let you type 4/4/04. Is there an alternative mask that will respond intelligently to such input? Or should I instead just remove all the input masks from all the date fields? From cfoust at infostatsystems.com Tue Mar 16 14:35:17 2004 From: cfoust at infostatsystems.com (Charlotte Foust) Date: Tue, 16 Mar 2004 12:35:17 -0800 Subject: [AccessD] Re: Access 2003 Developer Edition? Message-ID: You need the XP developer's edition to create runtime packages for Access 2002. Access 2003 still uses VBA rather than .Net, so don't worry about that, especially since there aren't a lot of new features in Access 2003. Charlotte Foust -----Original Message----- From: Michael Br?sdorf [mailto:michael.broesdorf at web.de] Sent: Tuesday, March 16, 2004 12:06 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: AW: [AccessD] Re: Access 2003 Developer Edition? I was thinking that too! How about Access 2002? Michael -----Urspr?ngliche Nachricht----- Von: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]Im Auftrag von tewald at comcast.net Gesendet: Dienstag, 16. M?rz 2004 20:33 An: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Betreff: [AccessD] Re: Access 2003 Developer Edition? Date: Tue, 16 Mar 2004 07:33:57 -0600 Does this mean that you can't create runtime programs if you don't know .NET? Guess I need to hold onto my 2000 Developer's Edition. Tom Ewald From: "Robert L. Stewart" Subject: [AccessD] Re: Access 2003 Developer Edition? To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Cc: michael.broesdorf at web.de Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20040316073249.029f1820 at pop3.highstream.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed Michael, It is called Access 2003 Developer Extensions now. This is because of the hook into .NET Robert -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com Tue Mar 16 14:40:48 2004 From: jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com (John W. Colby) Date: Tue, 16 Mar 2004 15:40:48 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Short Date Input Mask question In-Reply-To: Message-ID: A great case for a framework. Define the various formats you use in your text boxes and then tell the framework to figure out that it's a date and apply a format. John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Bryan Carbonnell Sent: Tuesday, March 16, 2004 3:16 PM To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: Re: [AccessD] Short Date Input Mask question My vote would be to get rid of the input mask al together and use the Format Property to display it how you want. I Have done that with what I'm dealing with now. No input masks, just Formats on all the Date fields. That way the date can be entered just about however the user wants to enter it d-m-yy, d/m/yy, yy-mmm-d, yyyy-mmm-dd, m/d/yyyy, mm-dd-yy............. And Access formats it into yyyy-mmm-dd for my forms. Makes like so much easier when you are dealing with a 30 hour day!! Yep a broadcast day is 30 hours long Midnight to 0600 the following morning, or sign on, which ever comes first. Bryan Carbonnell bryan_carbonnell at cbc.ca >>> artful at rogers.com 16-Mar-04 5:47:18 PM >>> The standard short date input mask (99/99/0000;0;_) has a shortcoming that I hate: you have to type 04/04/04 to get April 4th 2004. The year handling is nice but the month and day suck. The mask won't let you type 4/4/04. Is there an alternative mask that will respond intelligently to such input? Or should I instead just remove all the input masks from all the date fields? -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From prodevmg at yahoo.com Tue Mar 16 14:56:40 2004 From: prodevmg at yahoo.com (Lonnie Johnson) Date: Tue, 16 Mar 2004 12:56:40 -0800 (PST) Subject: [AccessD] Terminal Server and Access XP In-Reply-To: <2F8793082E00D4119A1700B0D0216BF80222797F@main2.marlow.com> Message-ID: <20040316205640.67999.qmail@web20422.mail.yahoo.com> No, fairly novice. The admin actually has the terminal servers' desktop hidden and they come straight into a web page that gives them their windows and web application options. DWUTKA at marlow.com wrote:If it works logged in as an Admin, then it's a permissions issue. Are the logged in users 'power users'? Drew -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Lonnie Johnson Sent: Tuesday, March 16, 2004 7:04 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] Terminal Server and Access XP Nope. I was kinda hoping there was. It works if we log onto the terminal server as administrator, but not as a regular user. Would this be at the registry level? DWUTKA at marlow.com wrote:Any missing references? Drew -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Lonnie Johnson Sent: Monday, March 15, 2004 3:56 PM To: 'MS-ACCESS-L at lists.missouri.edu'; AccessDevelopers; ms_access; AccessD solving' Subject: [AccessD] Terminal Server and Access XP Users are getting a "Run-Time error 13, type mis match" when the application tries to cycle through some controls with the following: Dim ctl as Control For Each ctl in Me.Controls... This works fine in A97 and XP on regular machines. It even works for the administrator on a terminal server machine, but not regular users on terminal server. Anyone have a clue????????? Lonnie Johnson ProDev, Professional Development of MS Access Databases Visit me at ==> http://www.prodev.us Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Mail - More reliable, more storage, less spam -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com Lonnie Johnson ProDev, Professional Development of MS Access Databases Visit me at ==> http://www.prodev.us Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Mail - More reliable, more storage, less spam -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com Lonnie Johnson ProDev, Professional Development of MS Access Databases Visit me at ==> http://www.prodev.us Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Mail - More reliable, more storage, less spam From jarus at amerinet-gpo.com Tue Mar 16 15:35:37 2004 From: jarus at amerinet-gpo.com (Terri Jarus) Date: Tue, 16 Mar 2004 15:35:37 -0600 Subject: [AccessD] FMS Total Access Memo Question Message-ID: The Total Access Memo feature is a Wordpad clone for all intents and purposes. I probably misrepresented what they state in the FAQs, but what you have to do is copy the memo field to the Windows Clipboard and then paste from that to the bookmark in the Word document. The code for some of that is at this link: http://www.fmsinc.com/faqs/tamemo.htm#Clipboard Here's more info from their message board: "For the Bookmark trick, you can also copy the contents to the clipboard and work with an open object (the MS Word Document with bookmarks) directly. In other words, programamtically control the MS Word document by finding the bookmark and pasting the copied text directly into the bookmark instead of exporting to a file, then importing that file for the bookmark." My problem is that I don't know how to do this and could use an example if someone had one. I already have a Word template set up with bookmarks that is functional with the current memo fields that I want to change to TAM formatted fields, but my programming skills are minimal and I don't understand exactly how to approach this. I just don't ever get to spend very much time on database design and programming to develop a sound understanding of how things function. It's not my main job - it's my way of putting something together that is more efficient than what we currently have and our IS team does not believe in Access nor has the time to devote to developing applications that I need. Thanks for your response, if you can provide some further assistance - that would be great. Terri Jarus Director, Contract Support Services jarus at amerinet-gpo.com 314-542-1902 >>> gustav at cactus.dk 03/16/04 06:51AM >>> Hi Terri > There are a lot of memo fields that might need special formatting - > bolding, italics, bullets, etc. When I looked into using the > richtext ocx, you had to set up buttons for each formatting need. Yes, for a client I have Normal, Bold, Italic, and Underline - that's all they need. Of course, if you need more elaborate formatting you'll soon find yourself designing a WordPad clone. By the way, both the ocx and WordPad depends on the same richtex dll. > The issue would still be the same since the richtext feature is an > ActiveX control and that does not translate to Word - unless you can > tell me how to do that. There's nothing to do ... every memo field is an RTF document on its own and the control even has methods for reading and writing the content to a file. > That's FMS' pat answer - ActiveX controls don't translate over to Word. I don't know what FMS is talking about here. Again, there is nothing to translate - Word eats RTF files for lunch. /gustav > Terri Jarus > Director, Contract Support Services > jarus at amerinet-gpo.com > 314-542-1902 >>>> gustav at cactus.dk 03/16/04 05:43AM >>> > Hi Terri > Well, if all you need is some simple formatting, the MS richtext ocx will > do if you add some buttons and associated code. > /gustav >> Is anybody using this software? I purchased it a few weeks ago and I'm running into some issues of which I was unaware. >> My key reason for getting this software was to have the ability to format memo fields and then export them to Word. However, I was unaware of the difficulty in doing this. >> Is there some other 3rd party software that allows this functionality? >> Thanks for any hints, tips or advice. >> Terri Jarus >> Director, Contract Support Services >> jarus at amerinet-gpo.com >> 314-542-1902 -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com --------------------------------------------------------------------------- This email and any files transmitted with it are confidential and intended solely for the use of the individuals or entities to whom they are addressed. If you have received this email in error please return it to the sender, and erase any copies thereof. Copyright 2004 Amerinet 1nc. From jarus at amerinet-gpo.com Tue Mar 16 15:38:37 2004 From: jarus at amerinet-gpo.com (Terri Jarus) Date: Tue, 16 Mar 2004 15:38:37 -0600 Subject: [AccessD] Short Date Input Mask question Message-ID: Can you customize the short date format to (9/9/0000;0;_) to get the result you want? I think that will work. Terri Jarus Director, Contract Support Services jarus at amerinet-gpo.com 314-542-1902 >>> artful at rogers.com 03/16/04 04:47PM >>> The standard short date input mask (99/99/0000;0;_) has a shortcoming that I hate: you have to type 04/04/04 to get April 4th 2004. The year handling is nice but the month and day suck. The mask won't let you type 4/4/04. Is there an alternative mask that will respond intelligently to such input? Or should I instead just remove all the input masks from all the date fields? TIA, Arthur -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com --------------------------------------------------------------------------- This email and any files transmitted with it are confidential and intended solely for the use of the individuals or entities to whom they are addressed. If you have received this email in error please return it to the sender, and erase any copies thereof. Copyright 2004 Amerinet 1nc. From stuart at lexacorp.com.pg Tue Mar 16 16:05:42 2004 From: stuart at lexacorp.com.pg (Stuart McLachlan) Date: Wed, 17 Mar 2004 08:05:42 +1000 Subject: [AccessD] Short Date Input Mask question In-Reply-To: <000001c40ba8$a486de90$6501a8c0@rock> References: <20040316064213.26974.qmail@web61107.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <405806D6.28745.F33D59@localhost> On 16 Mar 2004 at 14:47, Arthur Fuller wrote: > The standard short date input mask (99/99/0000;0;_) has a shortcoming > that I hate: you have to type 04/04/04 to get April 4th 2004. The year > handling is nice but the month and day suck. The mask won't let you type > 4/4/04. Is there an alternative mask that will respond intelligently to > such input? Or should I instead just remove all the input masks from all > the date fields? > I gave up using date input masks long ago, they are a PITA. A lot of date entry tends to be for the current year and it's so simple to just enter 4/4 using the numieric keypad. -- Lexacorp Ltd http://www.lexacorp.com.pg Information Technology Consultancy, Software Development,System Support. From stuart at lexacorp.com.pg Tue Mar 16 16:10:01 2004 From: stuart at lexacorp.com.pg (Stuart McLachlan) Date: Wed, 17 Mar 2004 08:10:01 +1000 Subject: [AccessD] Short Date Input Mask question In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <405807D9.25404.F73111@localhost> On 16 Mar 2004 at 15:40, John W. Colby wrote: > A great case for a framework. Define the various formats you use in your > text boxes and then tell the framework to figure out that it's a date and > apply a format. > To a man with a hammer....... :-) Access does that just fine by itself if you set the format property to "d mmm yyyyy" or whatever you want in the particular situation. -- Lexacorp Ltd http://www.lexacorp.com.pg Information Technology Consultancy, Software Development,System Support. From jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com Tue Mar 16 16:35:29 2004 From: jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com (John W. Colby) Date: Tue, 16 Mar 2004 17:35:29 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Short Date Input Mask question In-Reply-To: <405807D9.25404.F73111@localhost> Message-ID: Stuart, that is a silly thing to say, and exactly the reason that I can't help but wonder whether anyone at all reads the posts I spend hours writing and writing example code for. Of course "Access does that just fine by itself if you set the format property to "d mmm yyyyy". And now, WE (you and I) have an application where our respective clients say "I hate that format". I don't know what You do but I go into my sysvar table and change a SysVar. The next time the app opens all date fields are formatted however the client wants. What exactly DO you do? To a man with a search and replace program.... Shall I just abandon my attempts to educate this list about what frameworks can do? Seems a shame, but it sure appears I've wasted about 30 hours so far. John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Stuart McLachlan Sent: Tuesday, March 16, 2004 5:10 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problemsolving Subject: RE: [AccessD] Short Date Input Mask question On 16 Mar 2004 at 15:40, John W. Colby wrote: > A great case for a framework. Define the various formats you use in your > text boxes and then tell the framework to figure out that it's a date and > apply a format. > To a man with a hammer....... :-) Access does that just fine by itself if you set the format property to "d mmm yyyyy" or whatever you want in the particular situation. -- Lexacorp Ltd http://www.lexacorp.com.pg Information Technology Consultancy, Software Development,System Support. -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From andrew.haslett at ilc.gov.au Tue Mar 16 17:10:46 2004 From: andrew.haslett at ilc.gov.au (Haslett, Andrew) Date: Wed, 17 Mar 2004 09:40:46 +1030 Subject: [AccessD] Short Date Input Mask question Message-ID: John, IMO - the reason for you spending time on creating your framework should be for your clients - not necessarily this list. It may benefit them if they decide to implement it - but shouldn't be your main priority.. As I mentioned in an earlier post, it is unlikely that many will go to the trouble of implementing any framework that takes (what seems like) quite a bit of extra knowledge and understanding, unless its incredibly well documented and easy to use. If you can accomplish this or if its saves you time then great - but I don't think laying a guilt trip on users here who have other ways of doing things is appropriate.. Its your choice what you want to provide to this list - not ours. Regards, Andrew -----Original Message----- From: John W. Colby [mailto:jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com] Sent: Wednesday, 17 March 2004 9:05 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] Short Date Input Mask question Stuart, that is a silly thing to say, and exactly the reason that I can't help but wonder whether anyone at all reads the posts I spend hours writing and writing example code for. Of course "Access does that just fine by itself if you set the format property to "d mmm yyyyy". And now, WE (you and I) have an application where our respective clients say "I hate that format". I don't know what You do but I go into my sysvar table and change a SysVar. The next time the app opens all date fields are formatted however the client wants. What exactly DO you do? To a man with a search and replace program.... Shall I just abandon my attempts to educate this list about what frameworks can do? Seems a shame, but it sure appears I've wasted about 30 hours so far. John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Stuart McLachlan Sent: Tuesday, March 16, 2004 5:10 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problemsolving Subject: RE: [AccessD] Short Date Input Mask question On 16 Mar 2004 at 15:40, John W. Colby wrote: > A great case for a framework. Define the various formats you use in > your text boxes and then tell the framework to figure out that it's a > date and apply a format. > To a man with a hammer....... :-) Access does that just fine by itself if you set the format property to "d mmm yyyyy" or whatever you want in the particular situation. -- Lexacorp Ltd http://www.lexacorp.com.pg Information Technology Consultancy, Software Development,System Support. -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com IMPORTANT - PLEASE READ ******************** This email and any files transmitted with it are confidential and may contain information protected by law from disclosure. If you have received this message in error, please notify the sender immediately and delete this email from your system. No warranty is given that this email or files, if attached to this email, are free from computer viruses or other defects. They are provided on the basis the user assumes all responsibility for loss, damage or consequence resulting directly or indirectly from their use, whether caused by the negligence of the sender or not. From Subscriptions at servicexp.com Tue Mar 16 17:50:33 2004 From: Subscriptions at servicexp.com (Robert Gracie) Date: Tue, 16 Mar 2004 18:50:33 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Short Date Input Mask question In-Reply-To: Message-ID: John, Well I for one would hate to see that. I have learned a great deal from your examples and articles, and I know that others are learning too. Just from what I have learned so far, I will be building a class based framework, no doubt about it. I see many benefits to this type of programming design... Robert Gracie www.servicexp.com -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of John W. Colby Sent: Tuesday, March 16, 2004 5:35 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] Short Date Input Mask question Stuart, that is a silly thing to say, and exactly the reason that I can't help but wonder whether anyone at all reads the posts I spend hours writing and writing example code for. Of course "Access does that just fine by itself if you set the format property to "d mmm yyyyy". And now, WE (you and I) have an application where our respective clients say "I hate that format". I don't know what You do but I go into my sysvar table and change a SysVar. The next time the app opens all date fields are formatted however the client wants. What exactly DO you do? To a man with a search and replace program.... Shall I just abandon my attempts to educate this list about what frameworks can do? Seems a shame, but it sure appears I've wasted about 30 hours so far. John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Stuart McLachlan Sent: Tuesday, March 16, 2004 5:10 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problemsolving Subject: RE: [AccessD] Short Date Input Mask question On 16 Mar 2004 at 15:40, John W. Colby wrote: > A great case for a framework. Define the various formats you use in your > text boxes and then tell the framework to figure out that it's a date and > apply a format. > To a man with a hammer....... :-) Access does that just fine by itself if you set the format property to "d mmm yyyyy" or whatever you want in the particular situation. -- Lexacorp Ltd http://www.lexacorp.com.pg Information Technology Consultancy, Software Development,System Support. -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From andrew.haslett at ilc.gov.au Tue Mar 16 18:07:30 2004 From: andrew.haslett at ilc.gov.au (Haslett, Andrew) Date: Wed, 17 Mar 2004 10:37:30 +1030 Subject: [AccessD] Short Date Input Mask question Message-ID: (PS. I personally have found it quite useful and its been a handy refresher in terms of withevents, class design etc. ) -----Original Message----- From: Haslett, Andrew [mailto:andrew.haslett at ilc.gov.au] Sent: Wednesday, 17 March 2004 9:41 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: [AccessD] Short Date Input Mask question John, IMO - the reason for you spending time on creating your framework should be for your clients - not necessarily this list. It may benefit them if they decide to implement it - but shouldn't be your main priority.. As I mentioned in an earlier post, it is unlikely that many will go to the trouble of implementing any framework that takes (what seems like) quite a bit of extra knowledge and understanding, unless its incredibly well documented and easy to use. If you can accomplish this or if its saves you time then great - but I don't think laying a guilt trip on users here who have other ways of doing things is appropriate.. Its your choice what you want to provide to this list - not ours. Regards, Andrew -----Original Message----- From: John W. Colby [mailto:jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com] Sent: Wednesday, 17 March 2004 9:05 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] Short Date Input Mask question Stuart, that is a silly thing to say, and exactly the reason that I can't help but wonder whether anyone at all reads the posts I spend hours writing and writing example code for. Of course "Access does that just fine by itself if you set the format property to "d mmm yyyyy". And now, WE (you and I) have an application where our respective clients say "I hate that format". I don't know what You do but I go into my sysvar table and change a SysVar. The next time the app opens all date fields are formatted however the client wants. What exactly DO you do? To a man with a search and replace program.... Shall I just abandon my attempts to educate this list about what frameworks can do? Seems a shame, but it sure appears I've wasted about 30 hours so far. John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Stuart McLachlan Sent: Tuesday, March 16, 2004 5:10 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problemsolving Subject: RE: [AccessD] Short Date Input Mask question On 16 Mar 2004 at 15:40, John W. Colby wrote: > A great case for a framework. Define the various formats you use in > your text boxes and then tell the framework to figure out that it's a > date and apply a format. > To a man with a hammer....... :-) Access does that just fine by itself if you set the format property to "d mmm yyyyy" or whatever you want in the particular situation. -- Lexacorp Ltd http://www.lexacorp.com.pg Information Technology Consultancy, Software Development,System Support. -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com IMPORTANT - PLEASE READ ******************** This email and any files transmitted with it are confidential and may contain information protected by law from disclosure. If you have received this message in error, please notify the sender immediately and delete this email from your system. No warranty is given that this email or files, if attached to this email, are free from computer viruses or other defects. They are provided on the basis the user assumes all responsibility for loss, damage or consequence resulting directly or indirectly from their use, whether caused by the negligence of the sender or not. -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com IMPORTANT - PLEASE READ ******************** This email and any files transmitted with it are confidential and may contain information protected by law from disclosure. If you have received this message in error, please notify the sender immediately and delete this email from your system. No warranty is given that this email or files, if attached to this email, are free from computer viruses or other defects. They are provided on the basis the user assumes all responsibility for loss, damage or consequence resulting directly or indirectly from their use, whether caused by the negligence of the sender or not. From john at winhaven.net Tue Mar 16 18:16:12 2004 From: john at winhaven.net (John Bartow) Date: Tue, 16 Mar 2004 18:16:12 -0600 Subject: [AccessD] FMS Total Access Memo Question In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Terri, Have you discussed this issue on the FMS forums? John B. -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Terri Jarus Sent: Tuesday, March 16, 2004 3:36 PM To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: Re: [AccessD] FMS Total Access Memo Question The Total Access Memo feature is a Wordpad clone for all intents and purposes. I probably misrepresented what they state in the FAQs, but what you have to do is copy the memo field to the Windows Clipboard and then paste from that to the bookmark in the Word document. The code for some of that is at this link: http://www.fmsinc.com/faqs/tamemo.htm#Clipboard Here's more info from their message board: "For the Bookmark trick, you can also copy the contents to the clipboard and work with an open object (the MS Word Document with bookmarks) directly. In other words, programamtically control the MS Word document by finding the bookmark and pasting the copied text directly into the bookmark instead of exporting to a file, then importing that file for the bookmark." My problem is that I don't know how to do this and could use an example if someone had one. I already have a Word template set up with bookmarks that is functional with the current memo fields that I want to change to TAM formatted fields, but my programming skills are minimal and I don't understand exactly how to approach this. I just don't ever get to spend very much time on database design and programming to develop a sound understanding of how things function. It's not my main job - it's my way of putting something together that is more efficient than what we currently have and our IS team does not believe in Access nor has the time to devote to developing applications that I need. Thanks for your response, if you can provide some further assistance - that would be great. Terri Jarus Director, Contract Support Services jarus at amerinet-gpo.com 314-542-1902 >>> gustav at cactus.dk 03/16/04 06:51AM >>> Hi Terri > There are a lot of memo fields that might need special formatting - > bolding, italics, bullets, etc. When I looked into using the > richtext ocx, you had to set up buttons for each formatting need. Yes, for a client I have Normal, Bold, Italic, and Underline - that's all they need. Of course, if you need more elaborate formatting you'll soon find yourself designing a WordPad clone. By the way, both the ocx and WordPad depends on the same richtex dll. > The issue would still be the same since the richtext feature is an > ActiveX control and that does not translate to Word - unless you can > tell me how to do that. There's nothing to do ... every memo field is an RTF document on its own and the control even has methods for reading and writing the content to a file. > That's FMS' pat answer - ActiveX controls don't translate over to Word. I don't know what FMS is talking about here. Again, there is nothing to translate - Word eats RTF files for lunch. /gustav > Terri Jarus > Director, Contract Support Services > jarus at amerinet-gpo.com > 314-542-1902 >>>> gustav at cactus.dk 03/16/04 05:43AM >>> > Hi Terri > Well, if all you need is some simple formatting, the MS richtext ocx will > do if you add some buttons and associated code. > /gustav >> Is anybody using this software? I purchased it a few weeks ago and I'm running into some issues of which I was unaware. >> My key reason for getting this software was to have the ability to format memo fields and then export them to Word. However, I was unaware of the difficulty in doing this. >> Is there some other 3rd party software that allows this functionality? >> Thanks for any hints, tips or advice. >> Terri Jarus >> Director, Contract Support Services >> jarus at amerinet-gpo.com >> 314-542-1902 -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com --------------------------------------------------------------------------- This email and any files transmitted with it are confidential and intended solely for the use of the individuals or entities to whom they are addressed. If you have received this email in error please return it to the sender, and erase any copies thereof. Copyright 2004 Amerinet 1nc. -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com Tue Mar 16 18:54:01 2004 From: jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com (John W. Colby) Date: Tue, 16 Mar 2004 19:54:01 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Short Date Input Mask question In-Reply-To: Message-ID: >John, IMO - the reason for you spending time on creating your framework should be for your clients - not necessarily this list. I am not spending time developing a framework for this list. I am spending time explaining to the list what a framework does and how MINE does it. And then a list members makes a statement like that? Excuse me but that statement displays an gigantic ignorance of the subject under discussion, a rather large ignorance as to my abilities and the tools at my disposal, and not borders on rude. >It may benefit them if they decide to implement it - but shouldn't be your main priority.. One of two of my "main priorities" of being on this list is helping other list members learn new things. The other is learning new things myself. >but I don't think laying a guilt trip on users here who have other ways of doing things is appropriate As for guilt trips, I am just spending a lot of time doing this. If it is just to hear myself speak I'll go read a book. At least someone will end up learning something from my doing that! "To a man with a hammer"???? John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Haslett, Andrew Sent: Tuesday, March 16, 2004 6:11 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: [AccessD] Short Date Input Mask question John, IMO - the reason for you spending time on creating your framework should be for your clients - not necessarily this list. It may benefit them if they decide to implement it - but shouldn't be your main priority.. As I mentioned in an earlier post, it is unlikely that many will go to the trouble of implementing any framework that takes (what seems like) quite a bit of extra knowledge and understanding, unless its incredibly well documented and easy to use. If you can accomplish this or if its saves you time then great - but I don't think laying a guilt trip on users here who have other ways of doing things is appropriate.. Its your choice what you want to provide to this list - not ours. Regards, Andrew -----Original Message----- From: John W. Colby [mailto:jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com] Sent: Wednesday, 17 March 2004 9:05 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] Short Date Input Mask question Stuart, that is a silly thing to say, and exactly the reason that I can't help but wonder whether anyone at all reads the posts I spend hours writing and writing example code for. Of course "Access does that just fine by itself if you set the format property to "d mmm yyyyy". And now, WE (you and I) have an application where our respective clients say "I hate that format". I don't know what You do but I go into my sysvar table and change a SysVar. The next time the app opens all date fields are formatted however the client wants. What exactly DO you do? To a man with a search and replace program.... Shall I just abandon my attempts to educate this list about what frameworks can do? Seems a shame, but it sure appears I've wasted about 30 hours so far. John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Stuart McLachlan Sent: Tuesday, March 16, 2004 5:10 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problemsolving Subject: RE: [AccessD] Short Date Input Mask question On 16 Mar 2004 at 15:40, John W. Colby wrote: > A great case for a framework. Define the various formats you use in > your text boxes and then tell the framework to figure out that it's a > date and apply a format. > To a man with a hammer....... :-) Access does that just fine by itself if you set the format property to "d mmm yyyyy" or whatever you want in the particular situation. -- Lexacorp Ltd http://www.lexacorp.com.pg Information Technology Consultancy, Software Development,System Support. -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com IMPORTANT - PLEASE READ ******************** This email and any files transmitted with it are confidential and may contain information protected by law from disclosure. If you have received this message in error, please notify the sender immediately and delete this email from your system. No warranty is given that this email or files, if attached to this email, are free from computer viruses or other defects. They are provided on the basis the user assumes all responsibility for loss, damage or consequence resulting directly or indirectly from their use, whether caused by the negligence of the sender or not. -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From wdhindman at bellsouth.net Tue Mar 16 19:00:09 2004 From: wdhindman at bellsouth.net (William Hindman) Date: Tue, 16 Mar 2004 20:00:09 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Short Date Input Mask question References: Message-ID: <000a01c40bbb$31dbe120$6101a8c0@dejpolsys> ...while I don't personally use a framework, I do take JC's points re standardizing common code throughout apps to heart ...I did not take his post as chastising anyone re framework use per se but rather frustration at an apparent lack of use of sound coding principles that are applicable to any professional development environment, with or without a framework. ...while JC can be unintentionally obtuse and pedantic when he gets on his podium, I find the overall content to be useful in my work as well as entertaining ...often when that wasn't his intent ...so as far as I'm concerned, he's wasting neither his time nor mine ...but that's just my two cents :) William Hindman You know the world is upside down when Bill Clinton wins a Grammy and Janet Jackson is the subject of a government sex investigation. Argus Hamilton. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Haslett, Andrew" To: "'Access Developers discussion and problem solving'" Sent: Tuesday, March 16, 2004 6:10 PM Subject: RE: [AccessD] Short Date Input Mask question > John, IMO - the reason for you spending time on creating your framework > should be for your clients - not necessarily this list. It may benefit them > if they decide to implement it - but shouldn't be your main priority.. > > As I mentioned in an earlier post, it is unlikely that many will go to the > trouble of implementing any framework that takes (what seems like) quite a > bit of extra knowledge and understanding, unless its incredibly well > documented and easy to use. > > If you can accomplish this or if its saves you time then great - but I don't > think laying a guilt trip on users here who have other ways of doing things > is appropriate.. Its your choice what you want to provide to this list - not > ours. > > Regards, > Andrew > > > -----Original Message----- > From: John W. Colby [mailto:jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com] > Sent: Wednesday, 17 March 2004 9:05 AM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: RE: [AccessD] Short Date Input Mask question > > Stuart, that is a silly thing to say, and exactly the reason that I can't > help but wonder whether anyone at all reads the posts I spend hours writing > and writing example code for. > > Of course "Access does that just fine by itself if you set the format > property to "d mmm yyyyy". > > And now, WE (you and I) have an application where our respective clients > say "I hate that format". I don't know what You do but I go into my sysvar > table and change a SysVar. The next time the app opens all date fields are > formatted however the client wants. > > What exactly DO you do? > > To a man with a search and replace program.... > > Shall I just abandon my attempts to educate this list about what frameworks > can do? Seems a shame, but it sure appears I've wasted about 30 hours so > far. > > John W. Colby > www.ColbyConsulting.com > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Stuart McLachlan > Sent: Tuesday, March 16, 2004 5:10 PM > To: Access Developers discussion and problemsolving > Subject: RE: [AccessD] Short Date Input Mask question > > > On 16 Mar 2004 at 15:40, John W. Colby wrote: > > > A great case for a framework. Define the various formats you use in > > your text boxes and then tell the framework to figure out that it's a > > date and apply a format. > > > > To a man with a hammer....... > :-) > > Access does that just fine by itself if you set the format property to "d > mmm yyyyy" or whatever you want in the particular situation. > > > -- > Lexacorp Ltd > http://www.lexacorp.com.pg > Information Technology Consultancy, Software Development,System Support. > > > > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > IMPORTANT - PLEASE READ ******************** > This email and any files transmitted with it are confidential and may > contain information protected by law from disclosure. > If you have received this message in error, please notify the sender > immediately and delete this email from your system. > No warranty is given that this email or files, if attached to this > email, are free from computer viruses or other defects. They > are provided on the basis the user assumes all responsibility for > loss, damage or consequence resulting directly or indirectly from > their use, whether caused by the negligence of the sender or not. > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > From jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com Tue Mar 16 19:18:48 2004 From: jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com (John W. Colby) Date: Tue, 16 Mar 2004 20:18:48 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Short Date Input Mask question In-Reply-To: <000a01c40bbb$31dbe120$6101a8c0@dejpolsys> Message-ID: >...while JC can be unintentionally obtuse and pedantic when he gets on his podium, I find the overall content to be useful in my work as well as entertaining ... ROTFL. As long as I am least entertaining someone. John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of William Hindman Sent: Tuesday, March 16, 2004 8:00 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Short Date Input Mask question ...while I don't personally use a framework, I do take JC's points re standardizing common code throughout apps to heart ...I did not take his post as chastising anyone re framework use per se but rather frustration at an apparent lack of use of sound coding principles that are applicable to any professional development environment, with or without a framework. ...while JC can be unintentionally obtuse and pedantic when he gets on his podium, I find the overall content to be useful in my work as well as entertaining ...often when that wasn't his intent ...so as far as I'm concerned, he's wasting neither his time nor mine ...but that's just my two cents :) William Hindman You know the world is upside down when Bill Clinton wins a Grammy and Janet Jackson is the subject of a government sex investigation. Argus Hamilton. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Haslett, Andrew" To: "'Access Developers discussion and problem solving'" Sent: Tuesday, March 16, 2004 6:10 PM Subject: RE: [AccessD] Short Date Input Mask question > John, IMO - the reason for you spending time on creating your framework > should be for your clients - not necessarily this list. It may benefit them > if they decide to implement it - but shouldn't be your main priority.. > > As I mentioned in an earlier post, it is unlikely that many will go to the > trouble of implementing any framework that takes (what seems like) quite a > bit of extra knowledge and understanding, unless its incredibly well > documented and easy to use. > > If you can accomplish this or if its saves you time then great - but I don't > think laying a guilt trip on users here who have other ways of doing things > is appropriate.. Its your choice what you want to provide to this list - not > ours. > > Regards, > Andrew > > > -----Original Message----- > From: John W. Colby [mailto:jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com] > Sent: Wednesday, 17 March 2004 9:05 AM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: RE: [AccessD] Short Date Input Mask question > > Stuart, that is a silly thing to say, and exactly the reason that I can't > help but wonder whether anyone at all reads the posts I spend hours writing > and writing example code for. > > Of course "Access does that just fine by itself if you set the format > property to "d mmm yyyyy". > > And now, WE (you and I) have an application where our respective clients > say "I hate that format". I don't know what You do but I go into my sysvar > table and change a SysVar. The next time the app opens all date fields are > formatted however the client wants. > > What exactly DO you do? > > To a man with a search and replace program.... > > Shall I just abandon my attempts to educate this list about what frameworks > can do? Seems a shame, but it sure appears I've wasted about 30 hours so > far. > > John W. Colby > www.ColbyConsulting.com > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Stuart McLachlan > Sent: Tuesday, March 16, 2004 5:10 PM > To: Access Developers discussion and problemsolving > Subject: RE: [AccessD] Short Date Input Mask question > > > On 16 Mar 2004 at 15:40, John W. Colby wrote: > > > A great case for a framework. Define the various formats you use in > > your text boxes and then tell the framework to figure out that it's a > > date and apply a format. > > > > To a man with a hammer....... > :-) > > Access does that just fine by itself if you set the format property to "d > mmm yyyyy" or whatever you want in the particular situation. > > > -- > Lexacorp Ltd > http://www.lexacorp.com.pg > Information Technology Consultancy, Software Development,System Support. > > > > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > IMPORTANT - PLEASE READ ******************** > This email and any files transmitted with it are confidential and may > contain information protected by law from disclosure. > If you have received this message in error, please notify the sender > immediately and delete this email from your system. > No warranty is given that this email or files, if attached to this > email, are free from computer viruses or other defects. They > are provided on the basis the user assumes all responsibility for > loss, damage or consequence resulting directly or indirectly from > their use, whether caused by the negligence of the sender or not. > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From accessd at shaw.ca Tue Mar 16 19:34:18 2004 From: accessd at shaw.ca (Jim Lawrence (AccessD)) Date: Tue, 16 Mar 2004 17:34:18 -0800 Subject: [AccessD] Short Date Input Mask question In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Hi All: I am enjoying watching John's examples and his methods of programming unfolding. It may not be everyone's cup-of-tea but there has been a lot of thought and effort going into writing and explaining the concepts. Maybe I am a total geek but I enjoy nothing more than an intellectually provocative and challenging programming exercise regardless of my personal level application. John is doing an excellent job in articulating his coding concepts and I in no way wish to discourage his lectures...in fact I am looking very much forward to his next article. My two cents worth. Jim -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Haslett, Andrew Sent: Tuesday, March 16, 2004 3:11 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: [AccessD] Short Date Input Mask question John, IMO - the reason for you spending time on creating your framework should be for your clients - not necessarily this list. It may benefit them if they decide to implement it - but shouldn't be your main priority.. As I mentioned in an earlier post, it is unlikely that many will go to the trouble of implementing any framework that takes (what seems like) quite a bit of extra knowledge and understanding, unless its incredibly well documented and easy to use. If you can accomplish this or if its saves you time then great - but I don't think laying a guilt trip on users here who have other ways of doing things is appropriate.. Its your choice what you want to provide to this list - not ours. Regards, Andrew -----Original Message----- From: John W. Colby [mailto:jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com] Sent: Wednesday, 17 March 2004 9:05 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] Short Date Input Mask question Stuart, that is a silly thing to say, and exactly the reason that I can't help but wonder whether anyone at all reads the posts I spend hours writing and writing example code for. Of course "Access does that just fine by itself if you set the format property to "d mmm yyyyy". And now, WE (you and I) have an application where our respective clients say "I hate that format". I don't know what You do but I go into my sysvar table and change a SysVar. The next time the app opens all date fields are formatted however the client wants. What exactly DO you do? To a man with a search and replace program.... Shall I just abandon my attempts to educate this list about what frameworks can do? Seems a shame, but it sure appears I've wasted about 30 hours so far. John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Stuart McLachlan Sent: Tuesday, March 16, 2004 5:10 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problemsolving Subject: RE: [AccessD] Short Date Input Mask question On 16 Mar 2004 at 15:40, John W. Colby wrote: > A great case for a framework. Define the various formats you use in > your text boxes and then tell the framework to figure out that it's a > date and apply a format. > To a man with a hammer....... :-) Access does that just fine by itself if you set the format property to "d mmm yyyyy" or whatever you want in the particular situation. -- Lexacorp Ltd http://www.lexacorp.com.pg Information Technology Consultancy, Software Development,System Support. -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com IMPORTANT - PLEASE READ ******************** This email and any files transmitted with it are confidential and may contain information protected by law from disclosure. If you have received this message in error, please notify the sender immediately and delete this email from your system. No warranty is given that this email or files, if attached to this email, are free from computer viruses or other defects. They are provided on the basis the user assumes all responsibility for loss, damage or consequence resulting directly or indirectly from their use, whether caused by the negligence of the sender or not. -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From stuart at lexacorp.com.pg Tue Mar 16 21:15:47 2004 From: stuart at lexacorp.com.pg (Stuart McLachlan) Date: Wed, 17 Mar 2004 13:15:47 +1000 Subject: [AccessD] Short Date Input Mask question In-Reply-To: References: <405807D9.25404.F73111@localhost> Message-ID: <40584F83.14263.20F1FAA@localhost> On 16 Mar 2004 at 17:35, John W. Colby wrote: > And now, WE (you and I) have an application where our respective clients > say "I hate that format". I don't know what You do but I go into my sysvar > table and change a SysVar. The next time the app opens all date fields are > formatted however the client wants. > > What exactly DO you do? > I determine with my clients what format they want the date in before I give them the UI . I call my methodology "Design and Development", not "Development and Design" > To a man with a search and replace program.... > > Shall I just abandon my attempts to educate this list about what frameworks > can do? Seems a shame, but it sure appears I've wasted about 30 hours so > far. > Not at all. I can see that your framework is very useful for many things. At the same time, spending a lot of time developing automated ways to do things that you only need to do rarely and which can be done simply when they *are* needed - strikes me as overkill. -- Lexacorp Ltd http://www.lexacorp.com.pg Information Technology Consultancy, Software Development,System Support. From artful at rogers.com Wed Mar 17 00:21:42 2004 From: artful at rogers.com (Arthur Fuller) Date: Tue, 16 Mar 2004 22:21:42 -0800 Subject: [AccessD] Short Date Input Mask question In-Reply-To: <405806D6.28745.F33D59@localhost> Message-ID: <000001c40be8$22bb8790$6501a8c0@rock> So the question becomes, how can I null all the date-field masks that I embedded so carefully, in both the numerous tables and all the forms? I want to walk the list of tables and wipe out the masks for all date fields, then do the same to all the forms. There are way too many to do by hand. I tried running Rick Fisher's Find and Replace to do this and got numerous error messages saying "User defined properties do not support a null value". So I replaced the masks with " " and although Rick's tool warned me that I was inserting a trailing space, it worked perfectly. Kewl! Arthur -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Stuart McLachlan Sent: Tuesday, March 16, 2004 2:06 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problemsolving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Short Date Input Mask question On 16 Mar 2004 at 14:47, Arthur Fuller wrote: > The standard short date input mask (99/99/0000;0;_) has a shortcoming > that I hate: you have to type 04/04/04 to get April 4th 2004. The year > handling is nice but the month and day suck. The mask won't let you > type 4/4/04. Is there an alternative mask that will respond > intelligently to such input? Or should I instead just remove all the > input masks from all the date fields? > I gave up using date input masks long ago, they are a PITA. A lot of date entry tends to be for the current year and it's so simple to just enter 4/4 using the numieric keypad. From jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com Tue Mar 16 22:27:18 2004 From: jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com (John W. Colby) Date: Tue, 16 Mar 2004 23:27:18 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Short Date Input Mask question In-Reply-To: <40584F83.14263.20F1FAA@localhost> Message-ID: >I determine with my clients what format they want the date in before I give them the UI . I call my methodology "Design and Development", not "Development and Design" And of course your clients NEVER change their mind. ROTFLMAO over that one! And of course you neatly sidestepped the question. >At the same time, spending a lot of time developing automated ways to do things that you only need to do rarely and which can be done simply when they *are* needed - strikes me as overkill. I don't spend a lot of time developing automated ways of doing things I rarely need to do. I spend a little extra time developing automated ways of doing things that I need to do all of the time. Of course having spent a little extra time once I save it on the next project, and the next, and the next... And of course you never answered how you do make such a change when it *IS* needed so it becomes difficult to determine how "simple" it is for you to do. But of course if you can't just change a sysvar then you must do a search and replace of all format strings. And of course we hope that all date controls have a format string. Or do you just take notes as the user finds controls that don't have a format string and go add those in. Or perhaps, you simply never make the mistake of not applying the format string to each and every control that displays a date. Oh, I forgot... "Design and development".... over, and over and over and over and over and... I really prefer design and development one time, thanks! John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Stuart McLachlan Sent: Tuesday, March 16, 2004 10:16 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problemsolving Subject: RE: [AccessD] Short Date Input Mask question On 16 Mar 2004 at 17:35, John W. Colby wrote: > And now, WE (you and I) have an application where our respective clients > say "I hate that format". I don't know what You do but I go into my sysvar > table and change a SysVar. The next time the app opens all date fields are > formatted however the client wants. > > What exactly DO you do? > I determine with my clients what format they want the date in before I give them the UI . I call my methodology "Design and Development", not "Development and Design" > To a man with a search and replace program.... > > Shall I just abandon my attempts to educate this list about what frameworks > can do? Seems a shame, but it sure appears I've wasted about 30 hours so > far. > Not at all. I can see that your framework is very useful for many things. At the same time, spending a lot of time developing automated ways to do things that you only need to do rarely and which can be done simply when they *are* needed - strikes me as overkill. -- Lexacorp Ltd http://www.lexacorp.com.pg Information Technology Consultancy, Software Development,System Support. -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From bchacc at san.rr.com Tue Mar 16 22:57:50 2004 From: bchacc at san.rr.com (Rocky Smolin - Beach Access Software) Date: Tue, 16 Mar 2004 20:57:50 -0800 Subject: [AccessD] Access 2003 Developer Edition? References: <40560466.1080601@shaw.ca> Message-ID: <01fd01c40bdc$65fa7540$6601a8c0@HAL9002> Marty: A couple of weeks ago I was asking about deploying an Access product and trying to decide whether to go with Wise/Sagekey A2K script with an A2K mde. But I'd have to buy the A2K developer edition. as well as the Sagekey script. Now it appears, IIUC, that I could buy Office 2003 and the Office Developer Tools (I've got A97 Developer license so I could get the Tools upgrade price, I think), and use the Developer Tools packaging wizard. >From the article it appears that the Packaging Wizard is pretty good. I didn't detect any of the 'it really stinks' kind of review of earlier Access packagers. Has you or anyone had any experience with it yet? Is it a reasonable alternative? It probably would have a longer life than going with an A2K solution. One requirement I see is that the target machine has to have W2K or WXP but that shouldn't be too much of a problem as time goes on. Regards, Rocky Smolin Beach Access Software http://www.e-z-mrp.com ----- Original Message ----- From: "MartyConnelly" To: "Access Developers discussion and problem solving" Sent: Monday, March 15, 2004 11:30 AM Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access 2003 Developer Edition? > The Access 2003 runtime ships with any version of Office 2003 that has > Access 2003, the license to redistribute solutions with the Access > runtime is available exclusively through the Access Developer > Extensions. The Access Developer Extensions include the Package Wizard > and other developer-oriented tools. The Package Wizard creates a package > based on an Access 2003 solution that users can install and uninstall > with the Microsoft Windows Installer. You can only acquire the Access > Developer Extensions by buying the "Visual Studio Tools for the > Microsoft Office System". > http://msdn.microsoft.com/vstudio/office > > > Packaging Access 2003 Solutions Rick Dobson > > http://msdn.microsoft.com/library/default.asp?url=/library/en-us/dnsmart03/html/sa03j8.asp > > Michael Br?sdorf wrote: > > >Hello, > > > >I noticed that there seems to no more Office 2003 Developers Edition. Is it > >still possible to create Run-Time applications with Access 2003? > >` > >Michael > > > > > > > > -- > Marty Connelly > Victoria, B.C. > Canada > > > > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > From accessd667 at yahoo.com Wed Mar 17 01:20:38 2004 From: accessd667 at yahoo.com (S D) Date: Tue, 16 Mar 2004 23:20:38 -0800 (PST) Subject: [AccessD] Re: Transaction in MS-Access INFO REQUIRED In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.2.20040316093312.02a5b630@pop3.highstream.net> Message-ID: <20040317072038.3319.qmail@web61104.mail.yahoo.com> Thnx, for all the replies! Sander "Robert L. Stewart" wrote: Actually, there is. But, it is limited to the scope of the transaction and not based on a log file. SQL Server has both, transaction based ROLLBACK/COMMIT capability and the capability to go back to a log and rebuild transaction based on entries into it. >From MS Access Help: BeginTrans, CommitTrans, Rollback Methods Example This example changes the job title of all sales representatives in the Employees table of the database. After the BeginTrans method starts a transaction that isolates all the changes made to the Employees table, the CommitTrans method saves the changes. Notice that you can use the Rollback method to undo changes that you saved using the Update method. Furthermore, the main transaction is nested within another transaction that automatically rolls back any changes made by the user during this example. One or more table pages remain locked while the user decides whether or not to accept the changes. For this reason, this technique isn't recommended but shown only as an example. Sub BeginTransX() Dim strName As String Dim strMessage As String Dim wrkDefault As Workspace Dim dbsNorthwind As Database Dim rstEmployees As Recordset ' Get default Workspace. Set wrkDefault = DBEngine.Workspaces(0) Set dbsNorthwind = OpenDatabase("Northwind.mdb") Set rstEmployees = _ dbsNorthwind.OpenRecordset("Employees") ' Start of outer transaction. wrkDefault.BeginTrans ' Start of main transaction. wrkDefault.BeginTrans With rstEmployees ' Loop through recordset and ask user if she wants to ' change the title for a specified employee. Do Until .EOF If !Title = "Sales Representative" Then strName = !LastName & ", " & !FirstName strMessage = "Employee: " & strName & vbCr & _ "Change title to Account Executive?" ' Change the title for the specified employee. If MsgBox(strMessage, vbYesNo) = vbYes Then .Edit !Title = "Account Executive" .Update End If End If .MoveNext Loop ' Ask if the user wants to commit to all the changes ' made above. If MsgBox("Save all changes?", vbYesNo) = vbYes Then wrkDefault.CommitTrans Else wrkDefault.Rollback End If ' Print current data in recordset. .MoveFirst Do While Not .EOF Debug.Print !LastName & ", " & !FirstName & _ " - " & !Title .MoveNext Loop ' Roll back any changes made by the user since this is ' a demonstration. wrkDefault.Rollback .Close End With dbsNorthwind.Close End Sub BeginTrans, CommitTrans, Rollback Methods The transaction methods manage transaction processing during a session defined by a Workspace object as follows: ? BeginTrans begins a new transaction. ? CommitTrans ends the ? current transaction and saves the changes. ? Rollback ends the current transaction and restores the databases in the Workspace object to the state they were in when the current transaction began. Syntax workspace.BeginTrans | CommitTrans [dbForceOSFlush] | Rollback The workspace placeholder is an object variable that represents the Workspace containing the databases that will use transactions. Remarks You use these methods with a Workspace object when you want to treat a series of changes made to the databases in a session as one unit. Typically, you use transactions to maintain the integrity of your data when you must both update records in two or more tables and ensure changes are completed (committed) in all tables or none at all (rolled back). For example, if you transfer money from one account to another, you might subtract an amount from one and add the amount to another. If either update fails, the accounts no longer balance. Use the BeginTrans method before updating the first record, and then, if any subsequent update fails, you can use the Rollback method to undo all of the updates. Use the CommitTrans method after you successfully update the last record. In a Microsoft Jet workspace, you can include the dbForceOSFlush constant with CommitTrans. This forces the database engine to immediately flush all updates to disk, instead of caching them temporarily. Without using this option, a user could get control back immediately after the application program calls CommitTrans, turn the computer off, and not have the data written to disk. While using this option may affect your application?s performance, it is useful in situations where the computer could be shut off before cached updates are saved to disk. Caution Within one Workspace object, transactions are always global to the Workspace and aren't limited to only one Connection or Database object. If you perform operations on more than one connection or database within a Workspace transaction, resolving the transaction (that is, using the CommitTrans or Rollback method) affects all operations on all connections and databases within that workspace. After you use CommitTrans, you can't undo changes made during that transaction unless the transaction is nested within another transaction that is itself rolled back. If you nest transactions, you must resolve the current transaction before you can resolve a transaction at a higher level of nesting. If you want to have simultaneous transactions with overlapping, non-nested scopes, you can create additional Workspace objects to contain the concurrent transactions. If you close a Workspace object without resolving any pending transactions, the transactions are automatically rolled back. If you use the CommitTrans or Rollback method without first using the BeginTrans method, an error occurs. Some ISAM databases used in a Microsoft Jet workspace may not support transactions, in which case the Transactions property of the Database object or Recordset object is False. To make sure the database supports transactions, check the value of the Transactions property of the Database object before using the BeginTrans method. If you are using a Recordset object based on more than one database, check the Transactions property of the Recordset object. If a Recordset is based entirely on Microsoft Jet tables, you can always use transactions. Recordset objects based on tables created by other database products, however, may not support transactions. For example, you can't use transactions in a Recordset based on a Paradox table. In this case, the Transactions property is False. If the Database or Recordset doesn't support transactions, the methods are ignored and no error occurs. You can't nest transactions if you are accessing ODBC data sources through the Microsoft Jet database engine. In ODBC workspaces, when you use CommitTrans your cursor may no longer be valid. Use the Requery method to view the changes in the Recordset, or close and re-open the Recordset. Notes ? You can often improve the performance of your application by breaking operations that require disk access into transaction blocks. This buffers your operations and may significantly reduce the number of times a disk is accessed. ? In a Microsoft Jet workspace, transactions are logged in a file kept in the directory specified by the TEMP environment variable on the workstation. If the transaction log file exhausts the available storage on your TEMP drive, the database engine triggers a run-time error. At this point, if you use CommitTrans, an indeterminate number of operations are committed, but the remaining uncompleted operations are lost, and the operation has to be restarted. Using a Rollback method releases the transaction log and rolls back all operations in the transaction. ? Closing a clone Recordset within a pending transaction will cause an implicit Rollback operation. BeginTrans, CommitTrans, and RollbackTrans Methods These transaction methods manage transaction processing within a Connection object as follows: ? BeginTrans ? Begins a new transaction. ? CommitTrans ? Saves any changes and ends the current transaction. It may also start a new transaction. ? RollbackTrans ? Cancels any changes made during the current transaction and ends the transaction. It may also start a new transaction. Syntax level = object.BeginTrans() object.BeginTrans object.CommitTrans object.RollbackTrans Return Value BeginTrans can be called as a function that returns a Long variable indicating the nesting level of the transaction. Parameters object A Connection object. Connection Use these methods with a Connection object when you want to save or cancel a series of changes made to the source data as a single unit. For example, to transfer money between accounts, you subtract an amount from one and add the same amount to the other. If either update fails, the accounts no longer balance. Making these changes within an open transaction ensures that either all or none of the changes go through. Note Not all providers support transactions. Verify that the provider-defined property "Transaction DDL" appears in the Connection object's Properties collection, indicating that the provider supports transactions. If the provider does not support transactions, calling one of these methods will return an error. After you call the BeginTrans method, the provider will no longer instantaneously commit changes you make until you call CommitTrans or RollbackTrans to end the transaction. For providers that support nested transactions, calling the BeginTrans method within an open transaction starts a new, nested transaction. The return value indicates the level of nesting: a return value of "1" indicates you have opened a top-level transaction (that is, the transaction is not nested within another transaction), "2" indicates that you have opened a second-level transaction (a transaction nested within a top-level transaction), and so forth. Calling CommitTrans or RollbackTrans affects only the most recently opened transaction; you must close or roll back the current transaction before you can resolve any higher-level transactions. Calling the CommitTrans method saves changes made within an open transaction on the connection and ends the transaction. Calling the RollbackTrans method reverses any changes made within an open transaction and ends the transaction. Calling either method when there is no open transaction generates an error. Depending on the Connection object's Attributes property, calling either the CommitTrans or RollbackTrans methods may automatically start a new transaction. If the Attributes property is set to adXactCommitRetaining, the provider automatically starts a new transaction after a CommitTrans call. If the Attributes property is set to adXactAbortRetaining, the provider automatically starts a new transaction after a RollbackTrans call. At 09:04 AM 3/16/2004 -0600, you wrote: >Date: Tue, 16 Mar 2004 09:11:12 -0500 >From: "Jim Dettman" >Subject: RE: [AccessD] Transaction in MS-Access INFO REQUIRED >To: "Access Developers discussion and problem solving" > >Message-ID: >Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" > >Sander/John, > > Actually, to be a little more specific, there is no rollback/forward >capability with JET as the database engine, but if you use Access with MSDE >or SQL Server, then you pick that up. > >Jim Dettman >Online Computer Services of WNY, Inc. >(315) 699-3443 >jimdettman at earthlink.net -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Mail - More reliable, more storage, less spam From accessd667 at yahoo.com Wed Mar 17 01:51:08 2004 From: accessd667 at yahoo.com (S D) Date: Tue, 16 Mar 2004 23:51:08 -0800 (PST) Subject: [AccessD] OT: Interfacing => Datamodel Message-ID: <20040317075108.65241.qmail@web61109.mail.yahoo.com> Hi group, I need some info regarding interfacing (messages between 2 parties) not interfaces in VB , C++, etc.!! Could you please comment on this: Process: We receive and send interfaces (textfiles) with a specific layout. There are about 100 types of different messages. About 50 incoming and 50 outgoing. I've build a datamodel like this: Importing files: 1 table stores the data of the incoming file: (tblRawData) Fields: ID FileName MessageID (wich type of message is it?) MessageData Date Time 1 table has lay-out information regarding all messages: (tblMessageLayout) MessageID (Message Type) FieldName (different data fields) StartPosition (at what position is the data for the field stored) EndPosition (at what position is the data for the field stored) Mandatory (Is this a mandatory field?) 1 table with the layout as stored in the table above for every Message Type. (tblMessageX) To store the data of the interface file. I would have 100 of these tables Example: MessageType 10 has the following fields: Field StartPosition EndPosition Mandatory | Example data ID 1 8 YES | 12345678 CustID 9 15 YES | 100235 Street 16 35 NO | KennedyLane Housenr 36 38 NO | 15 etc etc The interface could look like this: 12345678100235KennedyLane15 12345677100266St.Anna 6 12345645100322blablabla 10 I want to store every line in the table tblRawData. After that I use the tblMessageLayout to export the data in tblRawData to tblMessage10 The table tblMessageLayout has (for Message 10) the following data: MessageID FieldName StartPosition EndPosition Mandatory 10 ID 1 8 Y 10 CustID 9 15 Y 10 Street 16 35 N etc Could this approach work? What didn't I think of? What are known traps for interfacing? TIA Sander Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Mail - More reliable, more storage, less spam From gustav at cactus.dk Wed Mar 17 03:14:32 2004 From: gustav at cactus.dk (Gustav Brock) Date: Wed, 17 Mar 2004 10:14:32 +0100 Subject: [AccessD] Re: [Private] Framework Discussion - Dependent Obje cts In-Reply-To: <2F8793082E00D4119A1700B0D0216BF802227981@main2.marlow.com> References: <2F8793082E00D4119A1700B0D0216BF802227981@main2.marlow.com> Message-ID: <485194258.20040317101432@cactus.dk> Hi Drew Yes, that makes sense to me, though I don't have any tools to program dlls. I have some very general and well proven functions which I simply keep collected in some modules which I copy-paste into a new project as needed - not very fancy, I know, but it works. /gustav > I'm in the same situation as you. I find that building a 'framework' isn't > worth the effort, because I have to develop very diverse GUI's. It's not a > matter of re-using features, it's a matter of building specific features to > handle the task at hand. > At my full time job, however, I have found that one of the best practices I > can stick too, is to develop applications as 'stand-alone' objects, yet > leave room for interaction. So if I develop a library application for our > Drafting department, and later I develop a modeling package for the > engineers, if I need access to the drafting library, I can just 'reference' > the drafting department's .dll's. Makes life a lot easier. To me, that's > what I call a framework. It's not a generic thing from a functionality > standpoint, but more of a generic thing from a usability standpoint. > Make sense? From gustav at cactus.dk Wed Mar 17 03:04:49 2004 From: gustav at cactus.dk (Gustav Brock) Date: Wed, 17 Mar 2004 10:04:49 +0100 Subject: [AccessD] FMS Total Access Memo Question In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <1594611320.20040317100449@cactus.dk> Hi Terri OK, in that case it looks more like an Access-Word programming task where the clipboard-bookmark "trick" must be the last resort. I avoid Word if at all possible but other listers may be able to help you as it does require coding skills at some level. By the way, do you really need Word? Can't you create a report in Access? The FMS control should be able to be included in a report as well; if not - if the FMS control produces pure rtf - the Richtext ocx could be used. /gustav > The Total Access Memo feature is a Wordpad clone for all intents and purposes. I probably misrepresented what they state in the FAQs, but what you have to do is copy the memo field to the Windows > Clipboard and then paste from that to the bookmark in the Word document. The code for some of that is at this link: http://www.fmsinc.com/faqs/tamemo.htm#Clipboard > Here's more info from their message board: "For the Bookmark trick, you can also copy the contents to the clipboard and work with an open object (the MS Word Document with bookmarks) directly. In > other words, programamtically control the MS Word document by finding the bookmark and pasting the copied text directly into the bookmark instead of exporting to a file, then importing that file > for the bookmark." > My problem is that I don't know how to do this and could use an example if someone had one. I already have a Word template set up with bookmarks that is functional with the current memo fields > that I want to change to TAM formatted fields, but my programming skills are minimal and I don't understand exactly how to approach this. > I just don't ever get to spend very much time on database design and programming to develop a sound understanding of how things function. It's not my main job - it's my way of putting something > together that is more efficient than what we currently have and our IS team does not believe in Access nor has the time to devote to developing applications that I need. > Thanks for your response, if you can provide some further assistance - that would be great. > Terri Jarus > Director, Contract Support Services > jarus at amerinet-gpo.com > 314-542-1902 >>>> gustav at cactus.dk 03/16/04 06:51AM >>> > Hi Terri >> There are a lot of memo fields that might need special formatting - >> bolding, italics, bullets, etc. When I looked into using the >> richtext ocx, you had to set up buttons for each formatting need. > Yes, for a client I have Normal, Bold, Italic, and Underline - that's > all they need. Of course, if you need more elaborate formatting you'll > soon find yourself designing a WordPad clone. By the way, both the ocx > and WordPad depends on the same richtex dll. >> The issue would still be the same since the richtext feature is an >> ActiveX control and that does not translate to Word - unless you can >> tell me how to do that. > There's nothing to do ... every memo field is an RTF document on its > own and the control even has methods for reading and writing the > content to a file. >> That's FMS' pat answer - ActiveX controls don't translate over to Word. > I don't know what FMS is talking about here. Again, there is nothing > to translate - Word eats RTF files for lunch. > /gustav >> Terri Jarus >> Director, Contract Support Services >> jarus at amerinet-gpo.com >> 314-542-1902 >>>>> gustav at cactus.dk 03/16/04 05:43AM >>> >> Hi Terri >> Well, if all you need is some simple formatting, the MS richtext ocx will >> do if you add some buttons and associated code. >> /gustav >>> Is anybody using this software? I purchased it a few weeks ago and I'm running into some issues of which I was unaware. >>> My key reason for getting this software was to have the ability to format memo fields and then export them to Word. However, I was unaware of the difficulty in doing this. >>> Is there some other 3rd party software that allows this functionality? >>> Thanks for any hints, tips or advice. >>> Terri Jarus >>> Director, Contract Support Services >>> jarus at amerinet-gpo.com >>> 314-542-1902 From gustav at cactus.dk Wed Mar 17 03:45:07 2004 From: gustav at cactus.dk (Gustav Brock) Date: Wed, 17 Mar 2004 10:45:07 +0100 Subject: [AccessD] Short Date Input Mask question In-Reply-To: <000001c40ba8$a486de90$6501a8c0@rock> References: <000001c40ba8$a486de90$6501a8c0@rock> Message-ID: <527028907.20040317104507@cactus.dk> Hi Arthur It's not a shortcoming. Input masks are called this as their purpose is to force the user to follow an input sequence - not to type "something" that can be interpreted as a date string. As Bryan has stated, one of the features of Access is that it does a pretty good job of transferring "something" typed in a textbox into a full date string. As such, it can assume a default year; could Access also assume a default month (so "20" would turn into "2004-03-20") we would approach Paradise. Having said that, I once used input masks for entry of time on the format hh:nn where the user can either tab into the textbox or click at some arbitrary position in it and type ahead while preserving default values for all digits. As you all know, input must be limited to 0-2, 0-9 OR 0-4, 0-5 for the first three positions - not an easy task, but it can be done. The inputmask helps as it allows you to set the start and length of the selection no matter what the user has typed or how he/she is editing. /gustav > The standard short date input mask (99/99/0000;0;_) has a shortcoming > that I hate: you have to type 04/04/04 to get April 4th 2004. The year > handling is nice but the month and day suck. The mask won't let you type > 4/4/04. Is there an alternative mask that will respond intelligently to > such input? Or should I instead just remove all the input masks from all > the date fields? > TIA, > Arthur From jarus at amerinet-gpo.com Wed Mar 17 06:23:13 2004 From: jarus at amerinet-gpo.com (Terri Jarus) Date: Wed, 17 Mar 2004 06:23:13 -0600 Subject: [AccessD] FMS Total Access Memo Question Message-ID: The other alternative would be to use the Access report and I'm looking into that. The document that we create is somewhat intense - has a lot of text blobs in it and Word has been working just fine - with the exception that users could not format their text within Access, so someone would have to go into the Word document and dress it up. If I keep hammering at it, I'll come up with a solution - I'm just a little pressed to get this done within a month and was looking for someone who had already done this and could get me running along. Thanks again. Terri Jarus Director, Contract Support Services jarus at amerinet-gpo.com 314-542-1902 >>> gustav at cactus.dk 03/17/04 03:04AM >>> Hi Terri OK, in that case it looks more like an Access-Word programming task where the clipboard-bookmark "trick" must be the last resort. I avoid Word if at all possible but other listers may be able to help you as it does require coding skills at some level. By the way, do you really need Word? Can't you create a report in Access? The FMS control should be able to be included in a report as well; if not - if the FMS control produces pure rtf - the Richtext ocx could be used. /gustav > The Total Access Memo feature is a Wordpad clone for all intents and purposes. I probably misrepresented what they state in the FAQs, but what you have to do is copy the memo field to the Windows > Clipboard and then paste from that to the bookmark in the Word document. The code for some of that is at this link: http://www.fmsinc.com/faqs/tamemo.htm#Clipboard > Here's more info from their message board: "For the Bookmark trick, you can also copy the contents to the clipboard and work with an open object (the MS Word Document with bookmarks) directly. In > other words, programamtically control the MS Word document by finding the bookmark and pasting the copied text directly into the bookmark instead of exporting to a file, then importing that file > for the bookmark." > My problem is that I don't know how to do this and could use an example if someone had one. I already have a Word template set up with bookmarks that is functional with the current memo fields > that I want to change to TAM formatted fields, but my programming skills are minimal and I don't understand exactly how to approach this. > I just don't ever get to spend very much time on database design and programming to develop a sound understanding of how things function. It's not my main job - it's my way of putting something > together that is more efficient than what we currently have and our IS team does not believe in Access nor has the time to devote to developing applications that I need. > Thanks for your response, if you can provide some further assistance - that would be great. > Terri Jarus > Director, Contract Support Services > jarus at amerinet-gpo.com > 314-542-1902 >>>> gustav at cactus.dk 03/16/04 06:51AM >>> > Hi Terri >> There are a lot of memo fields that might need special formatting - >> bolding, italics, bullets, etc. When I looked into using the >> richtext ocx, you had to set up buttons for each formatting need. > Yes, for a client I have Normal, Bold, Italic, and Underline - that's > all they need. Of course, if you need more elaborate formatting you'll > soon find yourself designing a WordPad clone. By the way, both the ocx > and WordPad depends on the same richtex dll. >> The issue would still be the same since the richtext feature is an >> ActiveX control and that does not translate to Word - unless you can >> tell me how to do that. > There's nothing to do ... every memo field is an RTF document on its > own and the control even has methods for reading and writing the > content to a file. >> That's FMS' pat answer - ActiveX controls don't translate over to Word. > I don't know what FMS is talking about here. Again, there is nothing > to translate - Word eats RTF files for lunch. > /gustav >> Terri Jarus >> Director, Contract Support Services >> jarus at amerinet-gpo.com >> 314-542-1902 >>>>> gustav at cactus.dk 03/16/04 05:43AM >>> >> Hi Terri >> Well, if all you need is some simple formatting, the MS richtext ocx will >> do if you add some buttons and associated code. >> /gustav >>> Is anybody using this software? I purchased it a few weeks ago and I'm running into some issues of which I was unaware. >>> My key reason for getting this software was to have the ability to format memo fields and then export them to Word. However, I was unaware of the difficulty in doing this. >>> Is there some other 3rd party software that allows this functionality? >>> Thanks for any hints, tips or advice. >>> Terri Jarus >>> Director, Contract Support Services >>> jarus at amerinet-gpo.com >>> 314-542-1902 -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com --------------------------------------------------------------------------- This email and any files transmitted with it are confidential and intended solely for the use of the individuals or entities to whom they are addressed. If you have received this email in error please return it to the sender, and erase any copies thereof. Copyright 2004 Amerinet 1nc. From jarus at amerinet-gpo.com Wed Mar 17 06:24:27 2004 From: jarus at amerinet-gpo.com (Terri Jarus) Date: Wed, 17 Mar 2004 06:24:27 -0600 Subject: [AccessD] FMS Total Access Memo Question Message-ID: It's come up several times on the FMS forum and the answer from FMS is always the same. I would assume these users got it worked out but no one answered my post in the forum when I asked for some specific examples. Terri Jarus Director, Contract Support Services jarus at amerinet-gpo.com 314-542-1902 >>> john at winhaven.net 03/16/04 06:16PM >>> Terri, Have you discussed this issue on the FMS forums? John B. -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Terri Jarus Sent: Tuesday, March 16, 2004 3:36 PM To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: Re: [AccessD] FMS Total Access Memo Question The Total Access Memo feature is a Wordpad clone for all intents and purposes. I probably misrepresented what they state in the FAQs, but what you have to do is copy the memo field to the Windows Clipboard and then paste from that to the bookmark in the Word document. The code for some of that is at this link: http://www.fmsinc.com/faqs/tamemo.htm#Clipboard Here's more info from their message board: "For the Bookmark trick, you can also copy the contents to the clipboard and work with an open object (the MS Word Document with bookmarks) directly. In other words, programamtically control the MS Word document by finding the bookmark and pasting the copied text directly into the bookmark instead of exporting to a file, then importing that file for the bookmark." My problem is that I don't know how to do this and could use an example if someone had one. I already have a Word template set up with bookmarks that is functional with the current memo fields that I want to change to TAM formatted fields, but my programming skills are minimal and I don't understand exactly how to approach this. I just don't ever get to spend very much time on database design and programming to develop a sound understanding of how things function. It's not my main job - it's my way of putting something together that is more efficient than what we currently have and our IS team does not believe in Access nor has the time to devote to developing applications that I need. Thanks for your response, if you can provide some further assistance - that would be great. Terri Jarus Director, Contract Support Services jarus at amerinet-gpo.com 314-542-1902 >>> gustav at cactus.dk 03/16/04 06:51AM >>> Hi Terri > There are a lot of memo fields that might need special formatting - > bolding, italics, bullets, etc. When I looked into using the > richtext ocx, you had to set up buttons for each formatting need. Yes, for a client I have Normal, Bold, Italic, and Underline - that's all they need. Of course, if you need more elaborate formatting you'll soon find yourself designing a WordPad clone. By the way, both the ocx and WordPad depends on the same richtex dll. > The issue would still be the same since the richtext feature is an > ActiveX control and that does not translate to Word - unless you can > tell me how to do that. There's nothing to do ... every memo field is an RTF document on its own and the control even has methods for reading and writing the content to a file. > That's FMS' pat answer - ActiveX controls don't translate over to Word. I don't know what FMS is talking about here. Again, there is nothing to translate - Word eats RTF files for lunch. /gustav > Terri Jarus > Director, Contract Support Services > jarus at amerinet-gpo.com > 314-542-1902 >>>> gustav at cactus.dk 03/16/04 05:43AM >>> > Hi Terri > Well, if all you need is some simple formatting, the MS richtext ocx will > do if you add some buttons and associated code. > /gustav >> Is anybody using this software? I purchased it a few weeks ago and I'm running into some issues of which I was unaware. >> My key reason for getting this software was to have the ability to format memo fields and then export them to Word. However, I was unaware of the difficulty in doing this. >> Is there some other 3rd party software that allows this functionality? >> Thanks for any hints, tips or advice. >> Terri Jarus >> Director, Contract Support Services >> jarus at amerinet-gpo.com >> 314-542-1902 -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com --------------------------------------------------------------------------- This email and any files transmitted with it are confidential and intended solely for the use of the individuals or entities to whom they are addressed. If you have received this email in error please return it to the sender, and erase any copies thereof. Copyright 2004 Amerinet 1nc. -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From adtp at touchtelindia.net Wed Mar 17 07:11:43 2004 From: adtp at touchtelindia.net (A.D.Tejpal) Date: Wed, 17 Mar 2004 18:41:43 +0530 Subject: [AccessD] Short Date Input Mask question References: <000001c40ba8$a486de90$6501a8c0@rock> <527028907.20040317104507@cactus.dk> Message-ID: <009501c40c21$7af0c4f0$c81e65cb@winxp> Arthur, Key strokes for date fields could be minimized by setting an input mask incorporating pre-filled default month & year. If it could be of any help, you could look at my sample db named InputMask_dynamic at Rogers Access Library (other developers section) - http://www.rogersaccesslibrary.com Amongst other things (e.g. phone nos etc.), it demonstrates input mask for date field, with desired month & year pre-filled. It may be mentioned that the option is not confined merely to the current month & year (which of course is the default option when the data entry form opens). The user can set any other desired values for either. Regards, A.D.Tejpal ----- Original Message ----- From: Gustav Brock To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Sent: Wednesday, March 17, 2004 15:15 Subject: Re: [AccessD] Short Date Input Mask question Hi Arthur It's not a shortcoming. Input masks are called this as their purpose is to force the user to follow an input sequence - not to type "something" that can be interpreted as a date string. As Bryan has stated, one of the features of Access is that it does a pretty good job of transferring "something" typed in a textbox into a full date string. As such, it can assume a default year; could Access also assume a default month (so "20" would turn into "2004-03-20") we would approach Paradise. Having said that, I once used input masks for entry of time on the format hh:nn where the user can either tab into the textbox or click at some arbitrary position in it and type ahead while preserving default values for all digits. As you all know, input must be limited to 0-2, 0-9 OR 0-4, 0-5 for the first three positions - not an easy task, but it can be done. The inputmask helps as it allows you to set the start and length of the selection no matter what the user has typed or how he/she is editing. /gustav > The standard short date input mask (99/99/0000;0;_) has a shortcoming > that I hate: you have to type 04/04/04 to get April 4th 2004. The year > handling is nice but the month and day suck. The mask won't let you type > 4/4/04. Is there an alternative mask that will respond intelligently to > such input? Or should I instead just remove all the input masks from all > the date fields? > TIA, > Arthur From Jdemarco at hudsonhealthplan.org Wed Mar 17 07:29:01 2004 From: Jdemarco at hudsonhealthplan.org (Jim DeMarco) Date: Wed, 17 Mar 2004 08:29:01 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Tracking Outlook message arrival Message-ID: <22F1CCD5171D17419CB37FEEE09D5F9902E80024@TTNEXCHSRV1.hshhp.com> List, We had a request to place Outlook mail items in an MDB as they arrived at a help desk mail account (Exchange). Our developer put code in the Outlook NewMail event to grab the fields we want and put them in the MDB. Problem is this method requires the e-mail account be open (running on a PC) and the user(s) don't want a PC just to run this app. Is there a way to monitor an e-mail account or hook into Exchange to grab this account's new mail as it hits the Inbox without running through Outlook? Outlook VBA, VB, or Access 97 solutions are all viable for us. TIA, Jim DeMarco Director Application Development Hudson Health Plan *********************************************************************************** "This electronic message is intended to be for the use only of the named recipient, and may contain information from Hudson Health Plan (HHP) that is confidential or privileged. If you are not the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any disclosure, copying, distribution or use of the contents of this message is strictly prohibited. If you have received this message in error or are not the named recipient, please notify us immediately, either by contacting the sender at the electronic mail address noted above or calling HHP at (914) 631-1611. If you are not the intended recipient, please do not forward this email to anyone, and delete and destroy all copies of this message. Thank You". *********************************************************************************** From wdhindman at bellsouth.net Wed Mar 17 07:32:21 2004 From: wdhindman at bellsouth.net (William Hindman) Date: Wed, 17 Mar 2004 08:32:21 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Re: [Private] Framework Discussion - Dependent Obje cts References: <2F8793082E00D4119A1700B0D0216BF802227981@main2.marlow.com> <485194258.20040317101432@cactus.dk> Message-ID: <000c01c40c24$47006260$6101a8c0@dejpolsys> "some very general and well proven functions which I simply keep collected in some modules which I copy-paste into a new project as needed - not very fancy, I know, but it works." gustav ...me too :) ...I tried JC's framework a couple years ago and, for me, found myself putting as much or more effort into it as I was client apps ...but otoh banging around in his framework taught me "with events" coding and many other techniques that I can't imagine not using in every app today ...I'm clearly not nearly as disciplined about coding as JC, Jurgen, Shamil and some other gurus here are so I just make do with a template mdb much as you describe. :) William Hindman You know the world is upside down when Bill Clinton wins a Grammy and Janet Jackson is the subject of a government sex investigation. Argus Hamilton. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Gustav Brock" To: "Access Developers discussion and problem solving" Sent: Wednesday, March 17, 2004 4:14 AM Subject: Re: [AccessD] Re: [Private] Framework Discussion - Dependent Obje cts > Hi Drew > > Yes, that makes sense to me, though I don't have any tools to program > dlls. I have some very general and well proven functions which I > simply keep collected in some modules which I copy-paste into a new > project as needed - not very fancy, I know, but it works. > > /gustav > > > I'm in the same situation as you. I find that building a 'framework' isn't > > worth the effort, because I have to develop very diverse GUI's. It's not a > > matter of re-using features, it's a matter of building specific features to > > handle the task at hand. > > > At my full time job, however, I have found that one of the best practices I > > can stick too, is to develop applications as 'stand-alone' objects, yet > > leave room for interaction. So if I develop a library application for our > > Drafting department, and later I develop a modeling package for the > > engineers, if I need access to the drafting library, I can just 'reference' > > the drafting department's .dll's. Makes life a lot easier. To me, that's > > what I call a framework. It's not a generic thing from a functionality > > standpoint, but more of a generic thing from a usability standpoint. > > > Make sense? > > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > From john at winhaven.net Wed Mar 17 08:09:48 2004 From: john at winhaven.net (John Bartow) Date: Wed, 17 Mar 2004 08:09:48 -0600 Subject: [AccessD] FMS Total Access Memo Question In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Terri, Just checking - in the past I've had good results working directly with FMS on any issues I've had. BTW Gustav is correct in that TAM can be used in the reports also. I have the 97 version and it has capabilities that you won't get with the MS-RTF control. Sorry I can't help more with TAM other these simple pointers. John B. -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Terri Jarus Sent: Wednesday, March 17, 2004 6:24 AM To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: RE: [AccessD] FMS Total Access Memo Question It's come up several times on the FMS forum and the answer from FMS is always the same. I would assume these users got it worked out but no one answered my post in the forum when I asked for some specific examples. Terri Jarus Director, Contract Support Services jarus at amerinet-gpo.com 314-542-1902 >>> john at winhaven.net 03/16/04 06:16PM >>> Terri, Have you discussed this issue on the FMS forums? John B. -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Terri Jarus Sent: Tuesday, March 16, 2004 3:36 PM To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: Re: [AccessD] FMS Total Access Memo Question The Total Access Memo feature is a Wordpad clone for all intents and purposes. I probably misrepresented what they state in the FAQs, but what you have to do is copy the memo field to the Windows Clipboard and then paste from that to the bookmark in the Word document. The code for some of that is at this link: http://www.fmsinc.com/faqs/tamemo.htm#Clipboard Here's more info from their message board: "For the Bookmark trick, you can also copy the contents to the clipboard and work with an open object (the MS Word Document with bookmarks) directly. In other words, programamtically control the MS Word document by finding the bookmark and pasting the copied text directly into the bookmark instead of exporting to a file, then importing that file for the bookmark." My problem is that I don't know how to do this and could use an example if someone had one. I already have a Word template set up with bookmarks that is functional with the current memo fields that I want to change to TAM formatted fields, but my programming skills are minimal and I don't understand exactly how to approach this. I just don't ever get to spend very much time on database design and programming to develop a sound understanding of how things function. It's not my main job - it's my way of putting something together that is more efficient than what we currently have and our IS team does not believe in Access nor has the time to devote to developing applications that I need. Thanks for your response, if you can provide some further assistance - that would be great. Terri Jarus Director, Contract Support Services jarus at amerinet-gpo.com 314-542-1902 >>> gustav at cactus.dk 03/16/04 06:51AM >>> Hi Terri > There are a lot of memo fields that might need special formatting - > bolding, italics, bullets, etc. When I looked into using the > richtext ocx, you had to set up buttons for each formatting need. Yes, for a client I have Normal, Bold, Italic, and Underline - that's all they need. Of course, if you need more elaborate formatting you'll soon find yourself designing a WordPad clone. By the way, both the ocx and WordPad depends on the same richtex dll. > The issue would still be the same since the richtext feature is an > ActiveX control and that does not translate to Word - unless you can > tell me how to do that. There's nothing to do ... every memo field is an RTF document on its own and the control even has methods for reading and writing the content to a file. > That's FMS' pat answer - ActiveX controls don't translate over to Word. I don't know what FMS is talking about here. Again, there is nothing to translate - Word eats RTF files for lunch. /gustav > Terri Jarus > Director, Contract Support Services > jarus at amerinet-gpo.com > 314-542-1902 >>>> gustav at cactus.dk 03/16/04 05:43AM >>> > Hi Terri > Well, if all you need is some simple formatting, the MS richtext ocx will > do if you add some buttons and associated code. > /gustav >> Is anybody using this software? I purchased it a few weeks ago and I'm running into some issues of which I was unaware. >> My key reason for getting this software was to have the ability to format memo fields and then export them to Word. However, I was unaware of the difficulty in doing this. >> Is there some other 3rd party software that allows this functionality? >> Thanks for any hints, tips or advice. >> Terri Jarus >> Director, Contract Support Services >> jarus at amerinet-gpo.com >> 314-542-1902 -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com --------------------------------------------------------------------------- This email and any files transmitted with it are confidential and intended solely for the use of the individuals or entities to whom they are addressed. If you have received this email in error please return it to the sender, and erase any copies thereof. Copyright 2004 Amerinet 1nc. -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From Bryan_Carbonnell at cbc.ca Wed Mar 17 08:12:02 2004 From: Bryan_Carbonnell at cbc.ca (Bryan Carbonnell) Date: Wed, 17 Mar 2004 09:12:02 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Short Date Input Mask question Message-ID: Well, here is a start for the tables Arthur. Can't help wiht the forms though. First off, set a reference to DAO and add the following sub. It will get rid of the InputMasks in all the tables. I only tested it against local tables, so linked tables may or may not work. IF these changes are going to be distributed to and end user's site and you can't get at the "working" data, you may want to have a look at the BEU. Anyway, here is the code: Sub ClearInputMask() Dim db As DAO.Database Dim tdf As DAO.TableDef Dim fld As DAO.Field Set db = CurrentDb() 'Looop through all the tabledefs For Each tdf In db.TableDefs 'loop through all the fields in the tabledef If Left$(tdf.Name, 4) <> "Msys" Then For Each fld In tdf.Fields 'See if the field is a date field If fld.Type = dbDate Then 'A date/time field 'Ignore errors, because one will be generated if there ' is no input mask defined On Error Resume Next fld.Properties.Delete "InputMask" End If Next End If Next Set fld = Nothing Set tdf = Nothing Set db = Nothing End Sub Bryan Carbonnell bryan_carbonnell at cbc.ca >>> artful at rogers.com 17-Mar-04 1:21:42 AM >>> So the question becomes, how can I null all the date-field masks that I embedded so carefully, in both the numerous tables and all the forms? I want to walk the list of tables and wipe out the masks for all date fields, then do the same to all the forms. There are way too many to do by hand. I tried running Rick Fisher's Find and Replace to do this and got numerous error messages saying "User defined properties do not support a null value". So I replaced the masks with " " and although Rick's tool warned me that I was inserting a trailing space, it worked perfectly. Kewl! Arthur -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Stuart McLachlan Sent: Tuesday, March 16, 2004 2:06 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problemsolving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Short Date Input Mask question On 16 Mar 2004 at 14:47, Arthur Fuller wrote: > The standard short date input mask (99/99/0000;0;_) has a shortcoming > that I hate: you have to type 04/04/04 to get April 4th 2004. The year > handling is nice but the month and day suck. The mask won't let you > type 4/4/04. Is there an alternative mask that will respond > intelligently to such input? Or should I instead just remove all the > input masks from all the date fields? > I gave up using date input masks long ago, they are a PITA. A lot of date entry tends to be for the current year and it's so simple to just enter 4/4 using the numieric keypad. -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From Lambert.Heenan at AIG.com Wed Mar 17 08:21:45 2004 From: Lambert.Heenan at AIG.com (Heenan, Lambert) Date: Wed, 17 Mar 2004 09:21:45 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Short Date Input Mask question Message-ID: <8B98F8EA48F8BA47A2F24E0D0AF40CF407AD7FBE@xlivmbx12.aig.com> My solution to date entry is simple - I never let user's type in a date. They always pick the date from a simple calendar form (though I don't use the MS Calendar control). Click on a date field and up pops the date picker. While this would not be suitable, perhaps, in applications where massive numbers of dates need to be entered, I find it works just fine for me. Lambert > -----Original Message----- > From: Arthur Fuller [SMTP:artful at rogers.com] > Sent: Tuesday, March 16, 2004 5:47 PM > To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' > Subject: [AccessD] Short Date Input Mask question > > The standard short date input mask (99/99/0000;0;_) has a shortcoming > that I hate: you have to type 04/04/04 to get April 4th 2004. The year > handling is nice but the month and day suck. The mask won't let you type > 4/4/04. Is there an alternative mask that will respond intelligently to > such input? Or should I instead just remove all the input masks from all > the date fields? > > TIA, > Arthur > > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From michael.broesdorf at web.de Wed Mar 17 08:39:00 2004 From: michael.broesdorf at web.de (=?iso-8859-1?Q?Michael_Br=F6sdorf?=) Date: Wed, 17 Mar 2004 15:39:00 +0100 Subject: [AccessD] Slightly OT: Access/Office 2003 with Multilingual User Pack on Terminal Server/Citrix Metaframe In-Reply-To: <8B98F8EA48F8BA47A2F24E0D0AF40CF407AD7FBE@xlivmbx12.aig.com> Message-ID: Dear group, one of my customers thinks it would be a good idea to install Office 2003 along with a Multilingual User Pack on a Citrix Metaframe server to have localized (that is English and German) user interfaces for all Office applications. Unfortunately it is pretty hard to find any related info. Does anyone have experience with such a configuration? TIA, Michael From Bryan_Carbonnell at cbc.ca Wed Mar 17 08:51:51 2004 From: Bryan_Carbonnell at cbc.ca (Bryan Carbonnell) Date: Wed, 17 Mar 2004 09:51:51 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Short Date Input Mask question Message-ID: Lambert, It may work fine for you, but does it work for your users? Do you force them to use the mouse to select the date, or can they do everything they need to from the keyboard? The only reason I bring this up is that I have had RSI from moving between the mouse and keyboard for data entry too much. It got to the point where by 10 AM I could not feel my little finger and half of my lower arm becaude of it. As soon as I got one application that I used on a regular basis more keyboard friendly it helped. Just try to keep that in mind. I know I always do. I let users use the mouse or enter with the keyboard. Their choice. Bryan Carbonnell bryan_carbonnell at cbc.ca >>> Lambert.Heenan at AIG.com 17-Mar-04 9:21:45 AM >>> My solution to date entry is simple - I never let user's type in a date. They always pick the date from a simple calendar form (though I don't use the MS Calendar control). Click on a date field and up pops the date picker. While this would not be suitable, perhaps, in applications where massive numbers of dates need to be entered, I find it works just fine for me. Lambert From rl_stewart at highstream.net Wed Mar 17 09:01:06 2004 From: rl_stewart at highstream.net (Robert L. Stewart) Date: Wed, 17 Mar 2004 09:01:06 -0600 Subject: [AccessD] Re: Short Date Input Mask question In-Reply-To: <200403170721.i2H7LmM07690@databaseadvisors.com> Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20040317083331.029dfc30@pop3.highstream.net> John, Ignore those that do not benefit or want to learn. Personally, I have read and re-read your posts, which I have compiled into a single document that I keep adding to. As I learn more, I will add my notes to it. As to a framework, they are great. And, you do have the right idea. With all the so called developers that claim Access as a development tool, we need to distinguish ourselves from them with as wide a gap as possible. Extending the capabilities of Access is just one of the ways, we as PROFESSIONAL developers can do this. A good example of this is the C programmers that a company here in Houston hired to do Access development. A friend of mine spent the last 3+ months debugging what they had written. An example of the poor programming technique (no matter the language) was the calling of a function to see what the country they were operating in was between 20 and 30 times within a form instead of setting a variable on open of the program. The country did not change after opening the program. :-) Yet, they were offended by the changes that were suggested by the real Access professional, because of their superior programming knowledge since they were C programmers. And, one of their other problems was that she was a woman. They were not from this country. Robert At 01:21 AM 3/17/2004 -0600, you wrote: >Date: Wed, 17 Mar 2004 10:37:30 +1030 >From: "Haslett, Andrew" >Subject: RE: [AccessD] Short Date Input Mask question >To: "'Access Developers discussion and problem solving'" > >Message-ID: > >Content-Type: text/plain > >(PS. I personally have found it quite useful and its been a handy refresher >in terms of withevents, class design etc. ) From rbgajewski at adelphia.net Wed Mar 17 09:11:27 2004 From: rbgajewski at adelphia.net (Bob Gajewski) Date: Wed, 17 Mar 2004 10:11:27 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Slightly OT: Office 2003 / Photo Editor In-Reply-To: Message-ID: OT / NO ARCHIVE Dear List: It seems that more and more of us are making the jump to Office 2003. Check out this article from John Dvorak on an important issue regarding Microsoft's newest tactic: ERASING A PROGRAM THAT IT DOESN'T THINK YOU NEED/WANT. http://www.pcmag.com/article2/0,1759,1549285,00.asp So, before you upgrade, you might want to be sure and have your old Office CD handy, so that you can re-install Photo Editor. I apologize if this is too far OT to be here. Regards, Bob Gajewski -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Michael Br?sdorf Sent: Wednesday, March 17, 2004 09:39 To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: [AccessD] Slightly OT: Access/Office 2003 with Multilingual UserPack on Terminal Server/Citrix Metaframe Dear group, one of my customers thinks it would be a good idea to install Office 2003 along with a Multilingual User Pack on a Citrix Metaframe server to have localized (that is English and German) user interfaces for all Office applications. Unfortunately it is pretty hard to find any related info. Does anyone have experience with such a configuration? TIA, Michael -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From michael.broesdorf at web.de Wed Mar 17 09:39:24 2004 From: michael.broesdorf at web.de (=?iso-8859-1?Q?Michael_Br=F6sdorf?=) Date: Wed, 17 Mar 2004 16:39:24 +0100 Subject: AW: [AccessD] Slightly OT: Office 2003 / Photo Editor In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Hm, I was looking for it, too! Too bad they removed it! Michael -----Urspr?ngliche Nachricht----- Von: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]Im Auftrag von Bob Gajewski Gesendet: Mittwoch, 17. M?rz 2004 16:11 An: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Betreff: [AccessD] Slightly OT: Office 2003 / Photo Editor OT / NO ARCHIVE Dear List: It seems that more and more of us are making the jump to Office 2003. Check out this article from John Dvorak on an important issue regarding Microsoft's newest tactic: ERASING A PROGRAM THAT IT DOESN'T THINK YOU NEED/WANT. http://www.pcmag.com/article2/0,1759,1549285,00.asp So, before you upgrade, you might want to be sure and have your old Office CD handy, so that you can re-install Photo Editor. I apologize if this is too far OT to be here. Regards, Bob Gajewski -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Michael Br?sdorf Sent: Wednesday, March 17, 2004 09:39 To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: [AccessD] Slightly OT: Access/Office 2003 with Multilingual UserPack on Terminal Server/Citrix Metaframe Dear group, one of my customers thinks it would be a good idea to install Office 2003 along with a Multilingual User Pack on a Citrix Metaframe server to have localized (that is English and German) user interfaces for all Office applications. Unfortunately it is pretty hard to find any related info. Does anyone have experience with such a configuration? TIA, Michael -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From ssharkins at bellsouth.net Wed Mar 17 09:43:18 2004 From: ssharkins at bellsouth.net (Susan Harkins) Date: Wed, 17 Mar 2004 10:43:18 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Slightly OT: Office 2003 / Photo Editor In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <20040317154319.KFNI18468.imf24aec.mail.bellsouth.net@SUSANONE> If you do a full install of O2K3, you get MS Picture Editor in the Office Tools group. He probably did a default install Susan H. OT / NO ARCHIVE Dear List: It seems that more and more of us are making the jump to Office 2003. Check out this article from John Dvorak on an important issue regarding Microsoft's newest tactic: ERASING A PROGRAM THAT IT DOESN'T THINK YOU NEED/WANT. http://www.pcmag.com/article2/0,1759,1549285,00.asp So, before you upgrade, you might want to be sure and have your old Office CD handy, so that you can re-install Photo Editor. I apologize if this is too far OT to be here. Regards, Bob Gajewski -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Michael Br?sdorf Sent: Wednesday, March 17, 2004 09:39 To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: [AccessD] Slightly OT: Access/Office 2003 with Multilingual UserPack on Terminal Server/Citrix Metaframe Dear group, one of my customers thinks it would be a good idea to install Office 2003 along with a Multilingual User Pack on a Citrix Metaframe server to have localized (that is English and German) user interfaces for all Office applications. Unfortunately it is pretty hard to find any related info. Does anyone have experience with such a configuration? TIA, Michael -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From Lambert.Heenan at AIG.com Wed Mar 17 09:52:20 2004 From: Lambert.Heenan at AIG.com (Heenan, Lambert) Date: Wed, 17 Mar 2004 10:52:20 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Short Date Input Mask question Message-ID: <8B98F8EA48F8BA47A2F24E0D0AF40CF407AD7FC3@xlivmbx12.aig.com> Bryan, Point taken. This was why I made the comment about mass data input. In point of fact it is possible, though a bit clunky, to select a date with the keyboard, and I should perhaps revisit the design on the form to make it easier to do so. RSI is a serious problem, and I sympathize with your for having to deal with it. However it's not confined to mouse use, indeed I remember it first being reported back in the 80's before mice very prevalent. In those days the blame was laid at the door of the extreme ease with which computer keyboards operated vs. manual typewriters. This allowed for very rapid keystrokes, which was thought to be the root cause of RSI. I also see people who have bizarre ideas about how they should position their keyboards and mice. In short there are lots of factors involved, and at the end of the day the user has to figure out the best way to use the d*mned machines. So, to reiterate, I think I'll take the time to redesign my date picker form to allow for better keyboard use of it. Lambert > -----Original Message----- > From: Bryan Carbonnell [SMTP:Bryan_Carbonnell at cbc.ca] > Sent: Wednesday, March 17, 2004 9:52 AM > To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com > Subject: RE: [AccessD] Short Date Input Mask question > > Lambert, > > It may work fine for you, but does it work for your users? Do you force > them to use the mouse to select the date, or can they do everything they > need to from the keyboard? > > The only reason I bring this up is that I have had RSI from moving > between the mouse and keyboard for data entry too much. It got to the > point where by 10 AM I could not feel my little finger and half of my > lower arm becaude of it. > > As soon as I got one application that I used on a regular basis more > keyboard friendly it helped. > > Just try to keep that in mind. I know I always do. I let users use the > mouse or enter with the keyboard. Their choice. > > Bryan Carbonnell > bryan_carbonnell at cbc.ca > > > >>> Lambert.Heenan at AIG.com 17-Mar-04 9:21:45 AM >>> > My solution to date entry is simple - I never let user's type in a > date. > They always pick the date from a simple calendar form (though I don't > use > the MS Calendar control). Click on a date field and up pops the date > picker. > While this would not be suitable, perhaps, in applications where > massive > numbers of dates need to be entered, I find it works just fine for me. > > Lambert > > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From rbgajewski at adelphia.net Wed Mar 17 09:54:41 2004 From: rbgajewski at adelphia.net (Bob Gajewski) Date: Wed, 17 Mar 2004 10:54:41 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Slightly OT: Office 2003 / Photo Editor In-Reply-To: <20040317154319.KFNI18468.imf24aec.mail.bellsouth.net@SUSANONE> Message-ID: Susan Interesting, because Microsoft itself acknowledges the situation: http://support.microsoft.com/default.aspx?kbid=817095 Thanks, Bob Gajewski -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Susan Harkins Sent: Wednesday, March 17, 2004 10:43 To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: [AccessD] Slightly OT: Office 2003 / Photo Editor If you do a full install of O2K3, you get MS Picture Editor in the Office Tools group. He probably did a default install Susan H. OT / NO ARCHIVE Dear List: It seems that more and more of us are making the jump to Office 2003. Check out this article from John Dvorak on an important issue regarding Microsoft's newest tactic: ERASING A PROGRAM THAT IT DOESN'T THINK YOU NEED/WANT. http://www.pcmag.com/article2/0,1759,1549285,00.asp So, before you upgrade, you might want to be sure and have your old Office CD handy, so that you can re-install Photo Editor. I apologize if this is too far OT to be here. Regards, Bob Gajewski -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Michael Br?sdorf Sent: Wednesday, March 17, 2004 09:39 To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: [AccessD] Slightly OT: Access/Office 2003 with Multilingual UserPack on Terminal Server/Citrix Metaframe Dear group, one of my customers thinks it would be a good idea to install Office 2003 along with a Multilingual User Pack on a Citrix Metaframe server to have localized (that is English and German) user interfaces for all Office applications. Unfortunately it is pretty hard to find any related info. Does anyone have experience with such a configuration? TIA, Michael -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From bchacc at san.rr.com Wed Mar 17 09:59:34 2004 From: bchacc at san.rr.com (Rocky Smolin - Beach Access Software) Date: Wed, 17 Mar 2004 07:59:34 -0800 Subject: [AccessD] Slightly OT: Office 2003 / Photo Editor References: <20040317154319.KFNI18468.imf24aec.mail.bellsouth.net@SUSANONE> Message-ID: <00ea01c40c38$d7870af0$6601a8c0@HAL9002> Is that Office Tools which comes with O2K3 or the Office Developer Tools? Rocky ----- Original Message ----- From: "Susan Harkins" To: "'Access Developers discussion and problem solving'" Sent: Wednesday, March 17, 2004 7:43 AM Subject: RE: [AccessD] Slightly OT: Office 2003 / Photo Editor > If you do a full install of O2K3, you get MS Picture Editor in the Office > Tools group. He probably did a default install > > Susan H. > > OT / NO ARCHIVE > > Dear List: > > It seems that more and more of us are making the jump to Office 2003. Check > out this article from John Dvorak on an important issue regarding > Microsoft's newest tactic: ERASING A PROGRAM THAT IT DOESN'T THINK YOU > NEED/WANT. > > http://www.pcmag.com/article2/0,1759,1549285,00.asp > > So, before you upgrade, you might want to be sure and have your old Office > CD handy, so that you can re-install Photo Editor. > > I apologize if this is too far OT to be here. > > Regards, > > Bob Gajewski > > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Michael Br?sdorf > Sent: Wednesday, March 17, 2004 09:39 > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: [AccessD] Slightly OT: Access/Office 2003 with Multilingual > UserPack on Terminal Server/Citrix Metaframe > > > Dear group, > > one of my customers thinks it would be a good idea to install Office 2003 > along with a Multilingual User Pack on a Citrix Metaframe server to have > localized (that is English and German) user interfaces for all Office > applications. Unfortunately it is pretty hard to find any related info. Does > anyone have experience with such a configuration? > > TIA, > > Michael > > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > From cfoust at infostatsystems.com Wed Mar 17 10:00:45 2004 From: cfoust at infostatsystems.com (Charlotte Foust) Date: Wed, 17 Mar 2004 08:00:45 -0800 Subject: [AccessD] Short Date Input Mask question Message-ID: We just format the display to medium date and let them enter the date according to their system settings. That satisfies both needs. If they just want to enter a month and day or month and year, we capture that as a string and convert it appropriately. Input masks for dates are problematic in an internationalized application. Charlotte Foust -----Original Message----- From: Heenan, Lambert [mailto:Lambert.Heenan at aig.com] Sent: Wednesday, March 17, 2004 6:22 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: [AccessD] Short Date Input Mask question My solution to date entry is simple - I never let user's type in a date. They always pick the date from a simple calendar form (though I don't use the MS Calendar control). Click on a date field and up pops the date picker. While this would not be suitable, perhaps, in applications where massive numbers of dates need to be entered, I find it works just fine for me. Lambert > -----Original Message----- > From: Arthur Fuller [SMTP:artful at rogers.com] > Sent: Tuesday, March 16, 2004 5:47 PM > To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' > Subject: [AccessD] Short Date Input Mask question > > The standard short date input mask (99/99/0000;0;_) has a shortcoming > that I hate: you have to type 04/04/04 to get April 4th 2004. The year > handling is nice but the month and day suck. The mask won't let you > type 4/4/04. Is there an alternative mask that will respond > intelligently to such input? Or should I instead just remove all the > input masks from all the date fields? > > TIA, > Arthur > > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From cfoust at infostatsystems.com Wed Mar 17 10:06:28 2004 From: cfoust at infostatsystems.com (Charlotte Foust) Date: Wed, 17 Mar 2004 08:06:28 -0800 Subject: [AccessD] Access 2003 Developer Edition? Message-ID: I don't think there is a "tools upgrade" price, Rocky. A developer license gives you the right to upgrade to Pro or Premium (I can't keep the versions straight) in 2003. I never saw an upgrade path to the VSTO package anywhere I looked. Developer gives you an upgrade path to Visual Studio.Net, I believe, but the VSTO is a separate package. Charlotte Foust -----Original Message----- From: Rocky Smolin - Beach Access Software [mailto:bchacc at san.rr.com] Sent: Tuesday, March 16, 2004 8:58 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access 2003 Developer Edition? Marty: A couple of weeks ago I was asking about deploying an Access product and trying to decide whether to go with Wise/Sagekey A2K script with an A2K mde. But I'd have to buy the A2K developer edition. as well as the Sagekey script. Now it appears, IIUC, that I could buy Office 2003 and the Office Developer Tools (I've got A97 Developer license so I could get the Tools upgrade price, I think), and use the Developer Tools packaging wizard. >From the article it appears that the Packaging Wizard is pretty good. >I didn't detect any of the 'it really stinks' kind of review of earlier Access packagers. Has you or anyone had any experience with it yet? Is it a reasonable alternative? It probably would have a longer life than going with an A2K solution. One requirement I see is that the target machine has to have W2K or WXP but that shouldn't be too much of a problem as time goes on. Regards, Rocky Smolin Beach Access Software http://www.e-z-mrp.com ----- Original Message ----- From: "MartyConnelly" To: "Access Developers discussion and problem solving" Sent: Monday, March 15, 2004 11:30 AM Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access 2003 Developer Edition? > The Access 2003 runtime ships with any version of Office 2003 that has > Access 2003, the license to redistribute solutions with the Access > runtime is available exclusively through the Access Developer > Extensions. The Access Developer Extensions include the Package Wizard > and other developer-oriented tools. The Package Wizard creates a > package based on an Access 2003 solution that users can install and > uninstall with the Microsoft Windows Installer. You can only acquire > the Access Developer Extensions by buying the "Visual Studio Tools > for the Microsoft Office System". > http://msdn.microsoft.com/vstudio/office > > > Packaging Access 2003 Solutions Rick Dobson > > http://msdn.microsoft.com/library/default.asp?url=/library/en-us/dnsmart03/html/sa03j8.asp > > Michael Br?sdorf wrote: > > >Hello, > > > >I noticed that there seems to no more Office 2003 Developers Edition. > >Is it > >still possible to create Run-Time applications with Access 2003? ` > >Michael > > > > > > > > -- > Marty Connelly > Victoria, B.C. > Canada > > > > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From ssharkins at bellsouth.net Wed Mar 17 10:07:41 2004 From: ssharkins at bellsouth.net (Susan Harkins) Date: Wed, 17 Mar 2004 11:07:41 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Slightly OT: Office 2003 / Photo Editor In-Reply-To: <00ea01c40c38$d7870af0$6601a8c0@HAL9002> Message-ID: <20040317160740.SBLH4640.imf23aec.mail.bellsouth.net@SUSANONE> Office 2003 Susan H. Is that Office Tools which comes with O2K3 or the Office Developer Tools? Rocky > If you do a full install of O2K3, you get MS Picture Editor in the Office > Tools group. He probably did a default install > > Susan H. > > OT / NO ARCHIVE > > Dear List: > > It seems that more and more of us are making the jump to Office 2003. Check > out this article from John Dvorak on an important issue regarding > Microsoft's newest tactic: ERASING A PROGRAM THAT IT DOESN'T THINK YOU > NEED/WANT. > > http://www.pcmag.com/article2/0,1759,1549285,00.asp > > So, before you upgrade, you might want to be sure and have your old Office > CD handy, so that you can re-install Photo Editor. > > I apologize if this is too far OT to be here. > > Regards, > > Bob Gajewski > > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Michael Br?sdorf > Sent: Wednesday, March 17, 2004 09:39 > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: [AccessD] Slightly OT: Access/Office 2003 with Multilingual > UserPack on Terminal Server/Citrix Metaframe > > > Dear group, > > one of my customers thinks it would be a good idea to install Office 2003 > along with a Multilingual User Pack on a Citrix Metaframe server to have > localized (that is English and German) user interfaces for all Office > applications. Unfortunately it is pretty hard to find any related info. Does > anyone have experience with such a configuration? > > TIA, > > Michael > > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From BBarabash at TappeConstruction.com Wed Mar 17 10:22:14 2004 From: BBarabash at TappeConstruction.com (Brett Barabash) Date: Wed, 17 Mar 2004 10:22:14 -0600 Subject: [AccessD] Short Date Input Mask question Message-ID: <426071E0B0A6D311B3C0006008B0AB23AFE41A@TAPPEEXCH01> I bet the data entry people love you! It may "work for you", but I'll bet that there are some users out there that feel otherwise. One of my biggest UI pet peeves is fields that disallow keyboard entry. One record or 1000 records, it's still annoying to move your hand off of the home row of your keyboard and click around to select a date. -----Original Message----- From: Heenan, Lambert [mailto:Lambert.Heenan at aig.com] Sent: Wednesday, March 17, 2004 8:22 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: [AccessD] Short Date Input Mask question My solution to date entry is simple - I never let user's type in a date. They always pick the date from a simple calendar form (though I don't use the MS Calendar control). Click on a date field and up pops the date picker. While this would not be suitable, perhaps, in applications where massive numbers of dates need to be entered, I find it works just fine for me. Lambert > -----Original Message----- > From: Arthur Fuller [SMTP:artful at rogers.com] > Sent: Tuesday, March 16, 2004 5:47 PM > To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' > Subject: [AccessD] Short Date Input Mask question > > The standard short date input mask (99/99/0000;0;_) has a shortcoming > that I hate: you have to type 04/04/04 to get April 4th 2004. The year > handling is nice but the month and day suck. The mask won't let you type > 4/4/04. Is there an alternative mask that will respond intelligently to > such input? Or should I instead just remove all the input masks from all > the date fields? > > TIA, > Arthur > > -- -------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- The information in this email may contain confidential information that is legally privileged. The information is only for the use of the intended recipient(s) named above. If you are not the intended recipient(s), you are hereby notified that any disclosure, copying, distribution, or the taking of any action in regard to the content of this fax is strictly prohibited. If transmission is incorrect, unclear, or incomplete, please notify the sender immediately. The authorized recipient(s) of this information is/are prohibited from disclosing this information to any other party and is/are required to destroy the information after its stated need has been fulfilled. Any views expressed in this message are those of the individual sender, except where the sender specifies and with authority, states them to be the views of Tappe Construction Co. This footer also confirms that this email message has been scanned for the presence of computer viruses.Scanning of this message and addition of this footer is performed by SurfControl E-mail Filter software in conjunction with virus detection software. From Lambert.Heenan at AIG.com Wed Mar 17 10:52:55 2004 From: Lambert.Heenan at AIG.com (Heenan, Lambert) Date: Wed, 17 Mar 2004 11:52:55 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Short Date Input Mask question Message-ID: <8B98F8EA48F8BA47A2F24E0D0AF40CF407AD7FC4@xlivmbx12.aig.com> Fortunately I do not have to develop apps. for data entry folks. I do however have to deal with people who still don't realize that almost every dialog box they ever see has a default button "clickable" with the Enter key, and that they can use "Y" and "N" to answer Yes/No dialogs etc. etc. Mousing around is a habit that is tough to break for some. Lambert > -----Original Message----- > From: Brett Barabash [SMTP:BBarabash at tappeconstruction.com] > Sent: Wednesday, March 17, 2004 11:22 AM > To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' > Subject: RE: [AccessD] Short Date Input Mask question > > I bet the data entry people love you! > > It may "work for you", but I'll bet that there are some users out there > that > feel otherwise. One of my biggest UI pet peeves is fields that disallow > keyboard entry. One record or 1000 records, it's still annoying to move > your hand off of the home row of your keyboard and click around to select > a > date. > > > -----Original Message----- > From: Heenan, Lambert [mailto:Lambert.Heenan at aig.com] > Sent: Wednesday, March 17, 2004 8:22 AM > To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' > Subject: RE: [AccessD] Short Date Input Mask question > > > My solution to date entry is simple - I never let user's type in a date. > They always pick the date from a simple calendar form (though I don't use > the MS Calendar control). Click on a date field and up pops the date > picker. > While this would not be suitable, perhaps, in applications where massive > numbers of dates need to be entered, I find it works just fine for me. > > Lambert > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: Arthur Fuller [SMTP:artful at rogers.com] > > Sent: Tuesday, March 16, 2004 5:47 PM > > To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' > > Subject: [AccessD] Short Date Input Mask question > > > > The standard short date input mask (99/99/0000;0;_) has a shortcoming > > that I hate: you have to type 04/04/04 to get April 4th 2004. The year > > handling is nice but the month and day suck. The mask won't let you type > > 4/4/04. Is there an alternative mask that will respond intelligently to > > such input? Or should I instead just remove all the input masks from all > > the date fields? > > > > TIA, > > Arthur > > > > -- > > -------------------------------------------------------------------------- > ------------------------------------------ > The information in this email may contain confidential information that > is legally privileged. The information is only for the use of the intended > > recipient(s) named above. If you are not the intended recipient(s), you > are hereby notified that any disclosure, copying, distribution, or the > taking > of any action in regard to the content of this fax is strictly prohibited. > If > transmission is incorrect, unclear, or incomplete, please notify the > sender > immediately. The authorized recipient(s) of this information is/are > prohibited > from disclosing this information to any other party and is/are required to > > destroy the information after its stated need has been fulfilled. > > Any views expressed in this message are those of the individual > sender, except where the sender specifies and with authority, > states them to be the views of Tappe Construction Co. > > This footer also confirms that this email message has been scanned > for the presence of computer viruses.Scanning of this message and > addition of this footer is performed by SurfControl E-mail Filter software > in conjunction with virus detection software. > > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From wdhindman at bellsouth.net Wed Mar 17 11:20:41 2004 From: wdhindman at bellsouth.net (William Hindman) Date: Wed, 17 Mar 2004 12:20:41 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Short Date Input Mask question References: <8B98F8EA48F8BA47A2F24E0D0AF40CF407AD7FBE@xlivmbx12.aig.com> Message-ID: <000a01c40c44$2c8e9df0$6101a8c0@dejpolsys> ...same here ...solves a LOT of problems :) William Hindman You know the world is upside down when Bill Clinton wins a Grammy and Janet Jackson is the subject of a government sex investigation. Argus Hamilton. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Heenan, Lambert" To: "'Access Developers discussion and problem solving'" Sent: Wednesday, March 17, 2004 9:21 AM Subject: RE: [AccessD] Short Date Input Mask question > My solution to date entry is simple - I never let user's type in a date. > They always pick the date from a simple calendar form (though I don't use > the MS Calendar control). Click on a date field and up pops the date picker. > While this would not be suitable, perhaps, in applications where massive > numbers of dates need to be entered, I find it works just fine for me. > > Lambert > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: Arthur Fuller [SMTP:artful at rogers.com] > > Sent: Tuesday, March 16, 2004 5:47 PM > > To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' > > Subject: [AccessD] Short Date Input Mask question > > > > The standard short date input mask (99/99/0000;0;_) has a shortcoming > > that I hate: you have to type 04/04/04 to get April 4th 2004. The year > > handling is nice but the month and day suck. The mask won't let you type > > 4/4/04. Is there an alternative mask that will respond intelligently to > > such input? Or should I instead just remove all the input masks from all > > the date fields? > > > > TIA, > > Arthur > > > > -- > > _______________________________________________ > > AccessD mailing list > > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > From wdhindman at bellsouth.net Wed Mar 17 11:25:12 2004 From: wdhindman at bellsouth.net (William Hindman) Date: Wed, 17 Mar 2004 12:25:12 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Short Date Input Mask question References: <8B98F8EA48F8BA47A2F24E0D0AF40CF407AD7FC3@xlivmbx12.aig.com> Message-ID: <001301c40c44$cf618240$6101a8c0@dejpolsys> ...shortcut keys/number pad activate each calendar function ...and I've got every client converted to trackballs instead of mice ...I used to have severe CTS using a mouse but since moving to trackballs I've been symptom free :) William Hindman You know the world is upside down when Bill Clinton wins a Grammy and Janet Jackson is the subject of a government sex investigation. Argus Hamilton. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Heenan, Lambert" To: "'Access Developers discussion and problem solving'" Sent: Wednesday, March 17, 2004 10:52 AM Subject: RE: [AccessD] Short Date Input Mask question > Bryan, > > Point taken. This was why I made the comment about mass data input. In point > of fact it is possible, though a bit clunky, to select a date with the > keyboard, and I should perhaps revisit the design on the form to make it > easier to do so. > > RSI is a serious problem, and I sympathize with your for having to deal with > it. However it's not confined to mouse use, indeed I remember it first being > reported back in the 80's before mice very prevalent. In those days the > blame was laid at the door of the extreme ease with which computer keyboards > operated vs. manual typewriters. This allowed for very rapid keystrokes, > which was thought to be the root cause of RSI. > > I also see people who have bizarre ideas about how they should position > their keyboards and mice. In short there are lots of factors involved, and > at the end of the day the user has to figure out the best way to use the > d*mned machines. So, to reiterate, I think I'll take the time to redesign my > date picker form to allow for better keyboard use of it. > > Lambert > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: Bryan Carbonnell [SMTP:Bryan_Carbonnell at cbc.ca] > > Sent: Wednesday, March 17, 2004 9:52 AM > > To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com > > Subject: RE: [AccessD] Short Date Input Mask question > > > > Lambert, > > > > It may work fine for you, but does it work for your users? Do you force > > them to use the mouse to select the date, or can they do everything they > > need to from the keyboard? > > > > The only reason I bring this up is that I have had RSI from moving > > between the mouse and keyboard for data entry too much. It got to the > > point where by 10 AM I could not feel my little finger and half of my > > lower arm becaude of it. > > > > As soon as I got one application that I used on a regular basis more > > keyboard friendly it helped. > > > > Just try to keep that in mind. I know I always do. I let users use the > > mouse or enter with the keyboard. Their choice. > > > > Bryan Carbonnell > > bryan_carbonnell at cbc.ca > > > > > > >>> Lambert.Heenan at AIG.com 17-Mar-04 9:21:45 AM >>> > > My solution to date entry is simple - I never let user's type in a > > date. > > They always pick the date from a simple calendar form (though I don't > > use > > the MS Calendar control). Click on a date field and up pops the date > > picker. > > While this would not be suitable, perhaps, in applications where > > massive > > numbers of dates need to be entered, I find it works just fine for me. > > > > Lambert > > > > -- > > _______________________________________________ > > AccessD mailing list > > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > From cfoust at infostatsystems.com Wed Mar 17 11:26:10 2004 From: cfoust at infostatsystems.com (Charlotte Foust) Date: Wed, 17 Mar 2004 09:26:10 -0800 Subject: [AccessD] Short Date Input Mask question Message-ID: We're more flexible. Users can double click a date field to pop up a calendar or they can type in a date in their regional format. Either way, it gets displayed as a medium date because there is no ambiguity with that format. Charlotte Foust -----Original Message----- From: William Hindman [mailto:wdhindman at bellsouth.net] Sent: Wednesday, March 17, 2004 9:21 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Short Date Input Mask question ...same here ...solves a LOT of problems :) William Hindman You know the world is upside down when Bill Clinton wins a Grammy and Janet Jackson is the subject of a government sex investigation. Argus Hamilton. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Heenan, Lambert" To: "'Access Developers discussion and problem solving'" Sent: Wednesday, March 17, 2004 9:21 AM Subject: RE: [AccessD] Short Date Input Mask question > My solution to date entry is simple - I never let user's type in a > date. They always pick the date from a simple calendar form (though I > don't use the MS Calendar control). Click on a date field and up pops > the date picker. > While this would not be suitable, perhaps, in applications where > massive numbers of dates need to be entered, I find it works just fine > for me. > > Lambert > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: Arthur Fuller [SMTP:artful at rogers.com] > > Sent: Tuesday, March 16, 2004 5:47 PM > > To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' > > Subject: [AccessD] Short Date Input Mask question > > > > The standard short date input mask (99/99/0000;0;_) has a > > shortcoming that I hate: you have to type 04/04/04 to get April 4th > > 2004. The year handling is nice but the month and day suck. The mask > > won't let you type 4/4/04. Is there an alternative mask that will > > respond intelligently to such input? Or should I instead just remove > > all the input masks from all the date fields? > > > > TIA, > > Arthur > > > > -- > > _______________________________________________ > > AccessD mailing list > > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From orthorabod at yahoo.com Wed Mar 17 11:30:06 2004 From: orthorabod at yahoo.com (Dick Abo) Date: Wed, 17 Mar 2004 09:30:06 -0800 (PST) Subject: [AccessD] RE: Detecting when an Access Report has been closed Message-ID: <20040317173006.82738.qmail@web13009.mail.yahoo.com> Charlotte: A few days ago I posted a question dealing with the detection of when an Access 2K generated reported has been closed by the user. I was referred to the WithEvents keyword and sinking the close event of the report. I've checked out some info in A2K on-line help and in the A97 ADH referencing the topic of the 'WithEvents' keyword. The examples dealt with event sink classes for Microsoft Word and a 'frmWithEventsWatch' form. I'm not sure how automating to MS Word affects an Access generated report. It appears to be more in-depth that I would like to go at thie time. I expect that this may be the only time that I will ever have to use this method. I also attempted to search the archives using 'WITHEVENTS' as the search key, but I seemed to be unsuccessful at pulling up related examples and material. Is there some sample code out there that deals with this topic and that doesn't get too deep? Regards, Rick Abo Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Mail - More reliable, more storage, less spam From cfoust at infostatsystems.com Wed Mar 17 11:37:51 2004 From: cfoust at infostatsystems.com (Charlotte Foust) Date: Wed, 17 Mar 2004 09:37:51 -0800 Subject: [AccessD] Short Date Input Mask question Message-ID: Hah! I got tendonitis in my thumb using a trackball. Had to go back to a mouse. That just shows that there is no single right answer. :-} Charlotte Foust -----Original Message----- From: William Hindman [mailto:wdhindman at bellsouth.net] Sent: Wednesday, March 17, 2004 9:25 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Short Date Input Mask question ...shortcut keys/number pad activate each calendar function ...and I've got every client converted to trackballs instead of mice ...I used to have severe CTS using a mouse but since moving to trackballs I've been symptom free :) William Hindman You know the world is upside down when Bill Clinton wins a Grammy and Janet Jackson is the subject of a government sex investigation. Argus Hamilton. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Heenan, Lambert" To: "'Access Developers discussion and problem solving'" Sent: Wednesday, March 17, 2004 10:52 AM Subject: RE: [AccessD] Short Date Input Mask question > Bryan, > > Point taken. This was why I made the comment about mass data input. In point > of fact it is possible, though a bit clunky, to select a date with the > keyboard, and I should perhaps revisit the design on the form to make > it easier to do so. > > RSI is a serious problem, and I sympathize with your for having to > deal with > it. However it's not confined to mouse use, indeed I remember it first being > reported back in the 80's before mice very prevalent. In those days > the blame was laid at the door of the extreme ease with which computer keyboards > operated vs. manual typewriters. This allowed for very rapid > keystrokes, which was thought to be the root cause of RSI. > > I also see people who have bizarre ideas about how they should > position their keyboards and mice. In short there are lots of factors > involved, and at the end of the day the user has to figure out the > best way to use the d*mned machines. So, to reiterate, I think I'll > take the time to redesign my > date picker form to allow for better keyboard use of it. > > Lambert > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: Bryan Carbonnell [SMTP:Bryan_Carbonnell at cbc.ca] > > Sent: Wednesday, March 17, 2004 9:52 AM > > To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com > > Subject: RE: [AccessD] Short Date Input Mask question > > > > Lambert, > > > > It may work fine for you, but does it work for your users? Do you > > force them to use the mouse to select the date, or can they do > > everything they need to from the keyboard? > > > > The only reason I bring this up is that I have had RSI from moving > > between the mouse and keyboard for data entry too much. It got to > > the point where by 10 AM I could not feel my little finger and half > > of my lower arm becaude of it. > > > > As soon as I got one application that I used on a regular basis more > > keyboard friendly it helped. > > > > Just try to keep that in mind. I know I always do. I let users use > > the mouse or enter with the keyboard. Their choice. > > > > Bryan Carbonnell > > bryan_carbonnell at cbc.ca > > > > > > >>> Lambert.Heenan at AIG.com 17-Mar-04 9:21:45 AM >>> > > My solution to date entry is simple - I never let user's type in a > > date. They always pick the date from a simple calendar form (though > > I don't use > > the MS Calendar control). Click on a date field and up pops the date > > picker. > > While this would not be suitable, perhaps, in applications where > > massive > > numbers of dates need to be entered, I find it works just fine for me. > > > > Lambert > > > > -- > > _______________________________________________ > > AccessD mailing list > > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From Bryan_Carbonnell at cbc.ca Wed Mar 17 11:39:16 2004 From: Bryan_Carbonnell at cbc.ca (Bryan Carbonnell) Date: Wed, 17 Mar 2004 12:39:16 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Short Date Input Mask question Message-ID: For me, mass data input didn't matter. It was simply moving back and forth between the keyboard and the mouse(pointing device). I never meant to imply that RSI was confined to mouse use. For me (and that is all I can speak about), it was lessened by several factors. I got an ergonomic keyboard, I switched from a mouse to a trackball and I started keeping my hands on the keyboard and using the pointing device less and less. I can't lay the blame on any one thing, but a combination of these 3 things have helped. It still flairs up, and it is *USUALLY* caused, for me anyway, when I am constantly moving from pointing device to keyboard. If you have ADH2K, there is no need to rebuild your date picker. The sample mdb for Chapter 8 has a really nice one. It can be used as a pop up OR embeded as a sub-form. Bryan Carbonnell bryan_carbonnell at cbc.ca >>> Lambert.Heenan at AIG.com 17-Mar-04 10:52:20 AM >>> Bryan, Point taken. This was why I made the comment about mass data input. In point of fact it is possible, though a bit clunky, to select a date with the keyboard, and I should perhaps revisit the design on the form to make it easier to do so. RSI is a serious problem, and I sympathize with your for having to deal with it. However it's not confined to mouse use, indeed I remember it first being reported back in the 80's before mice very prevalent. In those days the blame was laid at the door of the extreme ease with which computer keyboards operated vs. manual typewriters. This allowed for very rapid keystrokes, which was thought to be the root cause of RSI. I also see people who have bizarre ideas about how they should position their keyboards and mice. In short there are lots of factors involved, and at the end of the day the user has to figure out the best way to use the d*mned machines. So, to reiterate, I think I'll take the time to redesign my date picker form to allow for better keyboard use of it. Lambert > From: Bryan Carbonnell [SMTP:Bryan_Carbonnell at cbc.ca] > Sent: Wednesday, March 17, 2004 9:52 AM > To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com > Subject: RE: [AccessD] Short Date Input Mask question > > Lambert, > > It may work fine for you, but does it work for your users? Do you force > them to use the mouse to select the date, or can they do everything they > need to from the keyboard? > > The only reason I bring this up is that I have had RSI from moving > between the mouse and keyboard for data entry too much. It got to the > point where by 10 AM I could not feel my little finger and half of my > lower arm becaude of it. > > As soon as I got one application that I used on a regular basis more > keyboard friendly it helped. > > Just try to keep that in mind. I know I always do. I let users use the > mouse or enter with the keyboard. Their choice. > > Bryan Carbonnell > bryan_carbonnell at cbc.ca > > > >>> Lambert.Heenan at AIG.com 17-Mar-04 9:21:45 AM >>> > My solution to date entry is simple - I never let user's type in a > date. > They always pick the date from a simple calendar form (though I don't > use > the MS Calendar control). Click on a date field and up pops the date > picker. > While this would not be suitable, perhaps, in applications where > massive > numbers of dates need to be entered, I find it works just fine for me. From Bryan_Carbonnell at cbc.ca Wed Mar 17 11:39:56 2004 From: Bryan_Carbonnell at cbc.ca (Bryan Carbonnell) Date: Wed, 17 Mar 2004 12:39:56 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Short Date Input Mask question Message-ID: Causes a different set of problems though :-) Bryan Carbonnell bryan_carbonnelL at cbc.ca >>> wdhindman at bellsouth.net 17-Mar-04 12:20:41 PM >>> ...same here ...solves a LOT of problems :) William Hindman You know the world is upside down when Bill Clinton wins a Grammy and Janet Jackson is the subject of a government sex investigation. Argus Hamilton. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Heenan, Lambert" To: "'Access Developers discussion and problem solving'" Sent: Wednesday, March 17, 2004 9:21 AM Subject: RE: [AccessD] Short Date Input Mask question > My solution to date entry is simple - I never let user's type in a date. > They always pick the date from a simple calendar form (though I don't use > the MS Calendar control). Click on a date field and up pops the date picker. > While this would not be suitable, perhaps, in applications where massive > numbers of dates need to be entered, I find it works just fine for me. > > Lambert > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: Arthur Fuller [SMTP:artful at rogers.com] > > Sent: Tuesday, March 16, 2004 5:47 PM > > To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' > > Subject: [AccessD] Short Date Input Mask question > > > > The standard short date input mask (99/99/0000;0;_) has a shortcoming > > that I hate: you have to type 04/04/04 to get April 4th 2004. The year > > handling is nice but the month and day suck. The mask won't let you type > > 4/4/04. Is there an alternative mask that will respond intelligently to > > such input? Or should I instead just remove all the input masks from all > > the date fields? > > > > TIA, > > Arthur > > > > -- > > _______________________________________________ > > AccessD mailing list > > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From cfoust at infostatsystems.com Wed Mar 17 11:45:20 2004 From: cfoust at infostatsystems.com (Charlotte Foust) Date: Wed, 17 Mar 2004 09:45:20 -0800 Subject: [AccessD] RE: Detecting when an Access Report has been closed Message-ID: I have a simple WithEvents demo I can send you if you let me know offlist. It's so basic that I never submitted it to Rogers Library. Charlotte Foust -----Original Message----- From: Dick Abo [mailto:orthorabod at yahoo.com] Sent: Wednesday, March 17, 2004 9:30 AM To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: [AccessD] RE: Detecting when an Access Report has been closed Charlotte: A few days ago I posted a question dealing with the detection of when an Access 2K generated reported has been closed by the user. I was referred to the WithEvents keyword and sinking the close event of the report. I've checked out some info in A2K on-line help and in the A97 ADH referencing the topic of the 'WithEvents' keyword. The examples dealt with event sink classes for Microsoft Word and a 'frmWithEventsWatch' form. I'm not sure how automating to MS Word affects an Access generated report. It appears to be more in-depth that I would like to go at thie time. I expect that this may be the only time that I will ever have to use this method. I also attempted to search the archives using 'WITHEVENTS' as the search key, but I seemed to be unsuccessful at pulling up related examples and material. Is there some sample code out there that deals with this topic and that doesn't get too deep? Regards, Rick Abo Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Mail - More reliable, more storage, less spam -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From wdhindman at bellsouth.net Wed Mar 17 11:47:24 2004 From: wdhindman at bellsouth.net (William Hindman) Date: Wed, 17 Mar 2004 12:47:24 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Short Date Input Mask question References: Message-ID: <004101c40c47$e7c27a30$6101a8c0@dejpolsys> ...I use a variation of Drew's old calendar ...works great :) William Hindman You know the world is upside down when Bill Clinton wins a Grammy and Janet Jackson is the subject of a government sex investigation. Argus Hamilton. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Bryan Carbonnell" To: Sent: Wednesday, March 17, 2004 12:39 PM Subject: RE: [AccessD] Short Date Input Mask question > For me, mass data input didn't matter. It was simply moving back and > forth between the keyboard and the mouse(pointing device). > > I never meant to imply that RSI was confined to mouse use. > > For me (and that is all I can speak about), it was lessened by several > factors. I got an ergonomic keyboard, I switched from a mouse to a > trackball and I started keeping my hands on the keyboard and using the > pointing device less and less. > > I can't lay the blame on any one thing, but a combination of these 3 > things have helped. It still flairs up, and it is *USUALLY* caused, for > me anyway, when I am constantly moving from pointing device to > keyboard. > > If you have ADH2K, there is no need to rebuild your date picker. The > sample mdb for Chapter 8 has a really nice one. It can be used as a pop > up OR embeded as a sub-form. > > Bryan Carbonnell > bryan_carbonnell at cbc.ca > > >>> Lambert.Heenan at AIG.com 17-Mar-04 10:52:20 AM >>> > Bryan, > > Point taken. This was why I made the comment about mass data input. In > point > of fact it is possible, though a bit clunky, to select a date with the > keyboard, and I should perhaps revisit the design on the form to make > it > easier to do so. > > RSI is a serious problem, and I sympathize with your for having to deal > with > it. However it's not confined to mouse use, indeed I remember it first > being > reported back in the 80's before mice very prevalent. In those days > the > blame was laid at the door of the extreme ease with which computer > keyboards > operated vs. manual typewriters. This allowed for very rapid > keystrokes, > which was thought to be the root cause of RSI. > > I also see people who have bizarre ideas about how they should > position > their keyboards and mice. In short there are lots of factors involved, > and > at the end of the day the user has to figure out the best way to use > the > d*mned machines. So, to reiterate, I think I'll take the time to > redesign my > date picker form to allow for better keyboard use of it. > > Lambert > > > From: Bryan Carbonnell [SMTP:Bryan_Carbonnell at cbc.ca] > > Sent: Wednesday, March 17, 2004 9:52 AM > > To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com > > Subject: RE: [AccessD] Short Date Input Mask question > > > > Lambert, > > > > It may work fine for you, but does it work for your users? Do you > force > > them to use the mouse to select the date, or can they do everything > they > > need to from the keyboard? > > > > The only reason I bring this up is that I have had RSI from moving > > between the mouse and keyboard for data entry too much. It got to > the > > point where by 10 AM I could not feel my little finger and half of > my > > lower arm becaude of it. > > > > As soon as I got one application that I used on a regular basis more > > keyboard friendly it helped. > > > > Just try to keep that in mind. I know I always do. I let users use > the > > mouse or enter with the keyboard. Their choice. > > > > Bryan Carbonnell > > bryan_carbonnell at cbc.ca > > > > > > >>> Lambert.Heenan at AIG.com 17-Mar-04 9:21:45 AM >>> > > My solution to date entry is simple - I never let user's type in a > > date. > > They always pick the date from a simple calendar form (though I don't > > > use > > the MS Calendar control). Click on a date field and up pops the date > > picker. > > While this would not be suitable, perhaps, in applications where > > massive > > numbers of dates need to be entered, I find it works just fine for > me. > > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > From wdhindman at bellsouth.net Wed Mar 17 11:47:56 2004 From: wdhindman at bellsouth.net (William Hindman) Date: Wed, 17 Mar 2004 12:47:56 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Short Date Input Mask question References: Message-ID: <004601c40c47$fb48cc80$6101a8c0@dejpolsys> ...none that have not been addressed :) William Hindman You know the world is upside down when Bill Clinton wins a Grammy and Janet Jackson is the subject of a government sex investigation. Argus Hamilton. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Bryan Carbonnell" To: Sent: Wednesday, March 17, 2004 12:39 PM Subject: Re: [AccessD] Short Date Input Mask question > Causes a different set of problems though :-) > > Bryan Carbonnell > bryan_carbonnelL at cbc.ca > > >>> wdhindman at bellsouth.net 17-Mar-04 12:20:41 PM >>> > ...same here ...solves a LOT of problems :) > > William Hindman > You know the world is upside down when Bill Clinton wins a Grammy and > Janet > Jackson is the subject of a government sex investigation. Argus > Hamilton. > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Heenan, Lambert" > To: "'Access Developers discussion and problem solving'" > > Sent: Wednesday, March 17, 2004 9:21 AM > Subject: RE: [AccessD] Short Date Input Mask question > > > > My solution to date entry is simple - I never let user's type in a > date. > > They always pick the date from a simple calendar form (though I don't > use > > the MS Calendar control). Click on a date field and up pops the date > picker. > > While this would not be suitable, perhaps, in applications where > massive > > numbers of dates need to be entered, I find it works just fine for > me. > > > > Lambert > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > From: Arthur Fuller [SMTP:artful at rogers.com] > > > Sent: Tuesday, March 16, 2004 5:47 PM > > > To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' > > > Subject: [AccessD] Short Date Input Mask question > > > > > > The standard short date input mask (99/99/0000;0;_) has a > shortcoming > > > that I hate: you have to type 04/04/04 to get April 4th 2004. The > year > > > handling is nice but the month and day suck. The mask won't let you > type > > > 4/4/04. Is there an alternative mask that will respond > intelligently to > > > such input? Or should I instead just remove all the input masks > from all > > > the date fields? > > > > > > TIA, > > > Arthur > > > > > > -- > > > _______________________________________________ > > > AccessD mailing list > > > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > > > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > -- > > _______________________________________________ > > AccessD mailing list > > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > From Bryan_Carbonnell at cbc.ca Wed Mar 17 11:52:01 2004 From: Bryan_Carbonnell at cbc.ca (Bryan Carbonnell) Date: Wed, 17 Mar 2004 12:52:01 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Short Date Input Mask question Message-ID: Heck, not only are there no right answers, one answer doesn't always work for different situations for the same person. Day to day at work I use a trackball, unless I am doing major visual design stuff (Forms, reports...) Then I switch to a mouse. If I am doing significant graphics work, then I switch to a pen and tablet. At home, it's a mouse for day to day and a tablet for graphics work. All this is with a big old heaping dose of keyboard shortcuts. :) Bryan Carbonnell bryan_carbonnell at cbc.ca >>> cfoust at infostatsystems.com 17-Mar-04 12:37:51 PM >>> Hah! I got tendonitis in my thumb using a trackball. Had to go back to a mouse. That just shows that there is no single right answer. :-} Charlotte Foust -----Original Message----- From: William Hindman [mailto:wdhindman at bellsouth.net] Sent: Wednesday, March 17, 2004 9:25 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Short Date Input Mask question ...shortcut keys/number pad activate each calendar function ...and I've got every client converted to trackballs instead of mice ...I used to have severe CTS using a mouse but since moving to trackballs I've been symptom free :) From Mark.Mitsules at ngc.com Wed Mar 17 12:02:08 2004 From: Mark.Mitsules at ngc.com (Mitsules, Mark S. (Newport News)) Date: Wed, 17 Mar 2004 13:02:08 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Tracking Outlook message arrival Message-ID: A quick search yielded this: http://www.outlookcode.com/d/database.htm The article did mention hooking into Exchange directly...but I did not read in detail whether these connections were dependent on Outlook running or not. HTH Mark -----Original Message----- From: Jim DeMarco [mailto:Jdemarco at hudsonhealthplan.org] Sent: Wednesday, March 17, 2004 8:29 AM To: AccessD (E-mail) Subject: [AccessD] Tracking Outlook message arrival List, We had a request to place Outlook mail items in an MDB as they arrived at a help desk mail account (Exchange). Our developer put code in the Outlook NewMail event to grab the fields we want and put them in the MDB. Problem is this method requires the e-mail account be open (running on a PC) and the user(s) don't want a PC just to run this app. Is there a way to monitor an e-mail account or hook into Exchange to grab this account's new mail as it hits the Inbox without running through Outlook? Outlook VBA, VB, or Access 97 solutions are all viable for us. TIA, Jim DeMarco Director Application Development Hudson Health Plan **************************************************************************** ******* "This electronic message is intended to be for the use only of the named recipient, and may contain information from Hudson Health Plan (HHP) that is confidential or privileged. If you are not the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any disclosure, copying, distribution or use of the contents of this message is strictly prohibited. If you have received this message in error or are not the named recipient, please notify us immediately, either by contacting the sender at the electronic mail address noted above or calling HHP at (914) 631-1611. If you are not the intended recipient, please do not forward this email to anyone, and delete and destroy all copies of this message. Thank You". **************************************************************************** ******* -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From djkr at msn.com Wed Mar 17 12:18:56 2004 From: djkr at msn.com (DJK(John) Robinson) Date: Wed, 17 Mar 2004 18:18:56 -0000 Subject: [AccessD] Access 2003 Developer Edition? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <002101c40c4c$4fc11c00$bf00a8c0@dabsight> [Visual Studio Tools for the Microsoft Office System] Yes, there is a "tools upgrade" price: 60% off the Full price. Rocky's ODE97 will qualify him for it. See: http://msdn.microsoft.com/vstudio/howtobuy/officetools/ Access 2003 Developer Extensions, VB .NET Standard Edition, and SQLS 2000 Developer Edition are included in VST4MSOS. As Marty said, see: http://msdn.microsoft.com/vstudio/office/ The different *Office* 2003 editions are listed in: http://www.microsoft.com/office/editions/howtobuy/compare.mspx No personal experience yet of the Package Wizard, but I've heard good reports of it. HTH John > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of > Charlotte Foust > Sent: 17 March 2004 16:06 > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: RE: [AccessD] Access 2003 Developer Edition? > > > I don't think there is a "tools upgrade" price, Rocky. A > developer license gives you the right to upgrade to Pro or > Premium (I can't keep the versions straight) in 2003. I > never saw an upgrade path to the VSTO package anywhere I > looked. Developer gives you an upgrade path to Visual > Studio.Net, I believe, but the VSTO is a separate package. > > Charlotte Foust > > -----Original Message----- > From: Rocky Smolin - Beach Access Software [mailto:bchacc at san.rr.com] > Sent: Tuesday, March 16, 2004 8:58 PM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access 2003 Developer Edition? > > > Marty: > > A couple of weeks ago I was asking about deploying an Access > product and trying to decide whether to go with Wise/Sagekey > A2K script with an A2K mde. But I'd have to buy the A2K > developer edition. as well as the Sagekey script. > > Now it appears, IIUC, that I could buy Office 2003 and the > Office Developer Tools (I've got A97 Developer license so I > could get the Tools upgrade price, I think), and use the > Developer Tools packaging wizard. > > >From the article it appears that the Packaging Wizard is pretty good. > >I > didn't detect any of the 'it really stinks' kind of review of > earlier Access packagers. > > Has you or anyone had any experience with it yet? Is it a > reasonable alternative? It probably would have a longer life > than going with an A2K solution. One requirement I see is > that the target machine has to have W2K or WXP but that > shouldn't be too much of a problem as time goes on. > > Regards, > > Rocky Smolin > Beach Access Software > http://www.e-z-mrp.com > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "MartyConnelly" > To: "Access Developers discussion and problem solving" > > Sent: Monday, March 15, 2004 11:30 AM > Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access 2003 Developer Edition? > > > > The Access 2003 runtime ships with any version of Office > 2003 that has > > Access 2003, the license to redistribute solutions with the Access > > runtime is available exclusively through the Access Developer > > Extensions. The Access Developer Extensions include the > Package Wizard > > and other developer-oriented tools. The Package Wizard creates a > > package based on an Access 2003 solution that users can install and > > uninstall with the Microsoft Windows Installer. You can > only acquire > > the Access Developer Extensions by buying the "Visual Studio Tools > > for the Microsoft Office System". > > http://msdn.microsoft.com/vstudio/office > > > > > > Packaging Access 2003 Solutions Rick Dobson > > > > > http://msdn.microsoft.com/library/default.asp?url=/library/en-us/dnsmart03/h tml/sa03j8.asp > > Michael Br?sdorf wrote: > > >Hello, > > > >I noticed that there seems to no more Office 2003 Developers Edition. > >Is it > >still possible to create Run-Time applications with Access 2003? ` > >Michael > > > > > > > > -- > Marty Connelly > Victoria, B.C. > Canada > -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From Jdemarco at hudsonhealthplan.org Wed Mar 17 12:24:33 2004 From: Jdemarco at hudsonhealthplan.org (Jim DeMarco) Date: Wed, 17 Mar 2004 13:24:33 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Tracking Outlook message arrival Message-ID: <22F1CCD5171D17419CB37FEEE09D5F99030FE5A5@TTNEXCHSRV1.hshhp.com> Thanks Mark. I'll take a look. I checked Codehound and PlanetSourceCode but didn't find anything. Drew W. had something I thought might work on PlanetSourceCode but unless he chimes in here I really couldn't tell from the code. Jim D. -----Original Message----- From: Mitsules, Mark S. (Newport News) [mailto:Mark.Mitsules at ngc.com] Sent: Wednesday, March 17, 2004 1:02 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: [AccessD] Tracking Outlook message arrival A quick search yielded this: http://www.outlookcode.com/d/database.htm The article did mention hooking into Exchange directly...but I did not read in detail whether these connections were dependent on Outlook running or not. HTH Mark -----Original Message----- From: Jim DeMarco [mailto:Jdemarco at hudsonhealthplan.org] Sent: Wednesday, March 17, 2004 8:29 AM To: AccessD (E-mail) Subject: [AccessD] Tracking Outlook message arrival List, We had a request to place Outlook mail items in an MDB as they arrived at a help desk mail account (Exchange). Our developer put code in the Outlook NewMail event to grab the fields we want and put them in the MDB. Problem is this method requires the e-mail account be open (running on a PC) and the user(s) don't want a PC just to run this app. Is there a way to monitor an e-mail account or hook into Exchange to grab this account's new mail as it hits the Inbox without running through Outlook? Outlook VBA, VB, or Access 97 solutions are all viable for us. TIA, Jim DeMarco Director Application Development Hudson Health Plan **************************************************************************** ******* "This electronic message is intended to be for the use only of the named recipient, and may contain information from Hudson Health Plan (HHP) that is confidential or privileged. If you are not the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any disclosure, copying, distribution or use of the contents of this message is strictly prohibited. If you have received this message in error or are not the named recipient, please notify us immediately, either by contacting the sender at the electronic mail address noted above or calling HHP at (914) 631-1611. If you are not the intended recipient, please do not forward this email to anyone, and delete and destroy all copies of this message. Thank You". **************************************************************************** ******* -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com *********************************************************************************** "This electronic message is intended to be for the use only of the named recipient, and may contain information from Hudson Health Plan (HHP) that is confidential or privileged. If you are not the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any disclosure, copying, distribution or use of the contents of this message is strictly prohibited. If you have received this message in error or are not the named recipient, please notify us immediately, either by contacting the sender at the electronic mail address noted above or calling HHP at (914) 631-1611. If you are not the intended recipient, please do not forward this email to anyone, and delete and destroy all copies of this message. Thank You". *********************************************************************************** From cfoust at infostatsystems.com Wed Mar 17 12:25:31 2004 From: cfoust at infostatsystems.com (Charlotte Foust) Date: Wed, 17 Mar 2004 10:25:31 -0800 Subject: [AccessD] Access 2003 Developer Edition? Message-ID: Thanks. I hadn't found that, and I received a full version of the tools as a prize, so I didn't keep looking. Charlotte Foust -----Original Message----- From: DJK(John) Robinson [mailto:djkr at msn.com] Sent: Wednesday, March 17, 2004 10:19 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: [AccessD] Access 2003 Developer Edition? [Visual Studio Tools for the Microsoft Office System] Yes, there is a "tools upgrade" price: 60% off the Full price. Rocky's ODE97 will qualify him for it. See: http://msdn.microsoft.com/vstudio/howtobuy/officetools/ Access 2003 Developer Extensions, VB .NET Standard Edition, and SQLS 2000 Developer Edition are included in VST4MSOS. As Marty said, see: http://msdn.microsoft.com/vstudio/office/ The different *Office* 2003 editions are listed in: http://www.microsoft.com/office/editions/howtobuy/compare.mspx No personal experience yet of the Package Wizard, but I've heard good reports of it. HTH John > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of > Charlotte Foust > Sent: 17 March 2004 16:06 > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: RE: [AccessD] Access 2003 Developer Edition? > > > I don't think there is a "tools upgrade" price, Rocky. A > developer license gives you the right to upgrade to Pro or > Premium (I can't keep the versions straight) in 2003. I > never saw an upgrade path to the VSTO package anywhere I > looked. Developer gives you an upgrade path to Visual > Studio.Net, I believe, but the VSTO is a separate package. > > Charlotte Foust > > -----Original Message----- > From: Rocky Smolin - Beach Access Software [mailto:bchacc at san.rr.com] > Sent: Tuesday, March 16, 2004 8:58 PM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access 2003 Developer Edition? > > > Marty: > > A couple of weeks ago I was asking about deploying an Access > product and trying to decide whether to go with Wise/Sagekey > A2K script with an A2K mde. But I'd have to buy the A2K > developer edition. as well as the Sagekey script. > > Now it appears, IIUC, that I could buy Office 2003 and the > Office Developer Tools (I've got A97 Developer license so I > could get the Tools upgrade price, I think), and use the > Developer Tools packaging wizard. > > >From the article it appears that the Packaging Wizard is pretty good. > >I > didn't detect any of the 'it really stinks' kind of review of > earlier Access packagers. > > Has you or anyone had any experience with it yet? Is it a > reasonable alternative? It probably would have a longer life > than going with an A2K solution. One requirement I see is > that the target machine has to have W2K or WXP but that > shouldn't be too much of a problem as time goes on. > > Regards, > > Rocky Smolin > Beach Access Software > http://www.e-z-mrp.com > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "MartyConnelly" > To: "Access Developers discussion and problem solving" > > Sent: Monday, March 15, 2004 11:30 AM > Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access 2003 Developer Edition? > > > > The Access 2003 runtime ships with any version of Office > 2003 that has > > Access 2003, the license to redistribute solutions with the Access > > runtime is available exclusively through the Access Developer > > Extensions. The Access Developer Extensions include the > Package Wizard > > and other developer-oriented tools. The Package Wizard creates a > > package based on an Access 2003 solution that users can install and > > uninstall with the Microsoft Windows Installer. You can > only acquire > > the Access Developer Extensions by buying the "Visual Studio Tools > > for the Microsoft Office System". > > http://msdn.microsoft.com/vstudio/office > > > > > > Packaging Access 2003 Solutions Rick Dobson > > > > > http://msdn.microsoft.com/library/default.asp?url=/library/en-us/dnsmart03/h tml/sa03j8.asp > > Michael Br?sdorf wrote: > > >Hello, > > > >I noticed that there seems to no more Office 2003 Developers Edition. > >Is it > >still possible to create Run-Time applications with Access 2003? ` > >Michael > > > > > > > > -- > Marty Connelly > Victoria, B.C. > Canada > -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From martyconnelly at shaw.ca Wed Mar 17 12:42:16 2004 From: martyconnelly at shaw.ca (MartyConnelly) Date: Wed, 17 Mar 2004 10:42:16 -0800 Subject: [AccessD] Access 2003 Developer Edition? References: <40560466.1080601@shaw.ca> <01fd01c40bdc$65fa7540$6601a8c0@HAL9002> Message-ID: <40589C08.4080501@shaw.ca> You may have one other choice. I might be tempted to use SageKey MSI scripts rather than Wise, especially with the newer security on systems like WinXP SP2 (due out in summer) or Win 2003. It might make it easier to do a user install, rather than having to do an administrative one. Or even an install for running via Terminal Server. I am guessing here but a phone call to SageKey might resolve that one. SageKey MSI installs are available back to Access97, however with older OS systems you may have to upgrade the MSI installer to version 2.0??? The MSI install would perhaps save you the price of Wise. You could use the Package Wizard but will it get you around the problem of multiple Access installs? The BIG problem maybe that the Package Wizard requires a purchased security certificate to get around macro security. I am not sure the roll your own certificate method works, Sagekey Access 2003 MSI or Wise Scripts don't need this. But you may still need Wise with MSI, if you are installing complex OCX or dll files. This is real swings and merrygoround stuff. One advantage of buying Access 2003 VSTO is it includes VB.Net Pro, SQL Server 2000 Developer and the VS add-ins to create managed code projects for Word and Excel and three other Access developer add-ins. You can buy the VSTO upgrade if you have Access Developer 97 and up for $200 US http://msdn.microsoft.com/vstudio/howtobuy/officetools/ Rocky Smolin - Beach Access Software wrote: >Marty: > >A couple of weeks ago I was asking about deploying an Access product and >trying to decide whether to go with Wise/Sagekey A2K script with an A2K mde. >But I'd have to buy the A2K developer edition. as well as the Sagekey >script. > >Now it appears, IIUC, that I could buy Office 2003 and the Office Developer >Tools (I've got A97 Developer license so I could get the Tools upgrade >price, I think), and use the Developer Tools packaging wizard. > >>From the article it appears that the Packaging Wizard is pretty good. I >didn't detect any of the 'it really stinks' kind of review of earlier Access >packagers. > >Has you or anyone had any experience with it yet? Is it a reasonable >alternative? It probably would have a longer life than going with an A2K >solution. One requirement I see is that the target machine has to have W2K >or WXP but that shouldn't be too much of a problem as time goes on. > >Regards, > >Rocky Smolin >Beach Access Software >http://www.e-z-mrp.com > > >----- Original Message ----- >From: "MartyConnelly" >To: "Access Developers discussion and problem solving" > >Sent: Monday, March 15, 2004 11:30 AM >Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access 2003 Developer Edition? > > > > >>The Access 2003 runtime ships with any version of Office 2003 that has >>Access 2003, the license to redistribute solutions with the Access >>runtime is available exclusively through the Access Developer >>Extensions. The Access Developer Extensions include the Package Wizard >>and other developer-oriented tools. The Package Wizard creates a package >>based on an Access 2003 solution that users can install and uninstall >>with the Microsoft Windows Installer. You can only acquire the Access >>Developer Extensions by buying the "Visual Studio Tools for the >>Microsoft Office System". >>http://msdn.microsoft.com/vstudio/office >> >> >> Packaging Access 2003 Solutions Rick Dobson >> >> >> >> >http://msdn.microsoft.com/library/default.asp?url=/library/en-us/dnsmart03/html/sa03j8.asp > > >>Michael Br?sdorf wrote: >> >> >> >>>Hello, >>> >>>I noticed that there seems to no more Office 2003 Developers Edition. Is >>> >>> >it > > >>>still possible to create Run-Time applications with Access 2003? >>>` >>>Michael >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>-- >>Marty Connelly >>Victoria, B.C. >>Canada >> >> >> >>-- >>_______________________________________________ >>AccessD mailing list >>AccessD at databaseadvisors.com >>http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd >>Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com >> >> >> > > > -- Marty Connelly Victoria, B.C. Canada From bchacc at san.rr.com Wed Mar 17 12:43:56 2004 From: bchacc at san.rr.com (Rocky Smolin - Beach Access Software) Date: Wed, 17 Mar 2004 10:43:56 -0800 Subject: [AccessD] Access 2003 Developer Edition? References: <002101c40c4c$4fc11c00$bf00a8c0@dabsight> Message-ID: <012801c40c4f$cdf39960$6601a8c0@HAL9002> John: DO you know if I have to have the ODE97 installed to install the Visual Studio Tools for the Microsoft Office System upgrade? Or will it just ask for a CD key, maybe? Rocky ----- Original Message ----- From: "DJK(John) Robinson" To: "'Access Developers discussion and problem solving'" Sent: Wednesday, March 17, 2004 10:18 AM Subject: RE: [AccessD] Access 2003 Developer Edition? > [Visual Studio Tools for the Microsoft Office System] > > Yes, there is a "tools upgrade" price: 60% off the Full price. Rocky's > ODE97 will qualify him for it. See: > http://msdn.microsoft.com/vstudio/howtobuy/officetools/ > > Access 2003 Developer Extensions, VB .NET Standard Edition, and SQLS 2000 > Developer Edition are included in VST4MSOS. As Marty said, see: > http://msdn.microsoft.com/vstudio/office/ > > > The different *Office* 2003 editions are listed in: > http://www.microsoft.com/office/editions/howtobuy/compare.mspx > > > No personal experience yet of the Package Wizard, but I've heard good > reports of it. > > HTH > John > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of > > Charlotte Foust > > Sent: 17 March 2004 16:06 > > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > > Subject: RE: [AccessD] Access 2003 Developer Edition? > > > > > > I don't think there is a "tools upgrade" price, Rocky. A > > developer license gives you the right to upgrade to Pro or > > Premium (I can't keep the versions straight) in 2003. I > > never saw an upgrade path to the VSTO package anywhere I > > looked. Developer gives you an upgrade path to Visual > > Studio.Net, I believe, but the VSTO is a separate package. > > > > Charlotte Foust > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: Rocky Smolin - Beach Access Software [mailto:bchacc at san.rr.com] > > Sent: Tuesday, March 16, 2004 8:58 PM > > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > > Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access 2003 Developer Edition? > > > > > > Marty: > > > > A couple of weeks ago I was asking about deploying an Access > > product and trying to decide whether to go with Wise/Sagekey > > A2K script with an A2K mde. But I'd have to buy the A2K > > developer edition. as well as the Sagekey script. > > > > Now it appears, IIUC, that I could buy Office 2003 and the > > Office Developer Tools (I've got A97 Developer license so I > > could get the Tools upgrade price, I think), and use the > > Developer Tools packaging wizard. > > > > >From the article it appears that the Packaging Wizard is pretty good. > > >I > > didn't detect any of the 'it really stinks' kind of review of > > earlier Access packagers. > > > > Has you or anyone had any experience with it yet? Is it a > > reasonable alternative? It probably would have a longer life > > than going with an A2K solution. One requirement I see is > > that the target machine has to have W2K or WXP but that > > shouldn't be too much of a problem as time goes on. > > > > Regards, > > > > Rocky Smolin > > Beach Access Software > > http://www.e-z-mrp.com > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: "MartyConnelly" > > To: "Access Developers discussion and problem solving" > > > > Sent: Monday, March 15, 2004 11:30 AM > > Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access 2003 Developer Edition? > > > > > > > The Access 2003 runtime ships with any version of Office > > 2003 that has > > > Access 2003, the license to redistribute solutions with the Access > > > runtime is available exclusively through the Access Developer > > > Extensions. The Access Developer Extensions include the > > Package Wizard > > > and other developer-oriented tools. The Package Wizard creates a > > > package based on an Access 2003 solution that users can install and > > > uninstall with the Microsoft Windows Installer. You can > > only acquire > > > the Access Developer Extensions by buying the "Visual Studio Tools > > > for the Microsoft Office System". > > > http://msdn.microsoft.com/vstudio/office > > > > > > > > > Packaging Access 2003 Solutions Rick Dobson > > > > > > > > > http://msdn.microsoft.com/library/default.asp?url=/library/en-us/dnsmart03/h > tml/sa03j8.asp > > > > Michael Br?sdorf wrote: > > > > >Hello, > > > > > >I noticed that there seems to no more Office 2003 Developers Edition. > > >Is > it > > >still possible to create Run-Time applications with Access 2003? ` > > >Michael > > > > > > > > > > > > > -- > > Marty Connelly > > Victoria, B.C. > > Canada > > > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > From Jdemarco at hudsonhealthplan.org Wed Mar 17 12:48:46 2004 From: Jdemarco at hudsonhealthplan.org (Jim DeMarco) Date: Wed, 17 Mar 2004 13:48:46 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Tracking Outlook message arrival Message-ID: <22F1CCD5171D17419CB37FEEE09D5F99030FE5A6@TTNEXCHSRV1.hshhp.com> Well here's a strange one for you. At the bottom of this page from this link there's what looks like the perfect link "Extract Outlook Email to Database" but when you click it it goes to a Church of England web site were there arre other links to Outlook code but they go nowhere. Go figure. Jim DeMarco -----Original Message----- From: Mitsules, Mark S. (Newport News) [mailto:Mark.Mitsules at ngc.com] Sent: Wednesday, March 17, 2004 1:02 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: [AccessD] Tracking Outlook message arrival A quick search yielded this: http://www.outlookcode.com/d/database.htm The article did mention hooking into Exchange directly...but I did not read in detail whether these connections were dependent on Outlook running or not. HTH Mark -----Original Message----- From: Jim DeMarco [mailto:Jdemarco at hudsonhealthplan.org] Sent: Wednesday, March 17, 2004 8:29 AM To: AccessD (E-mail) Subject: [AccessD] Tracking Outlook message arrival List, We had a request to place Outlook mail items in an MDB as they arrived at a help desk mail account (Exchange). Our developer put code in the Outlook NewMail event to grab the fields we want and put them in the MDB. Problem is this method requires the e-mail account be open (running on a PC) and the user(s) don't want a PC just to run this app. Is there a way to monitor an e-mail account or hook into Exchange to grab this account's new mail as it hits the Inbox without running through Outlook? Outlook VBA, VB, or Access 97 solutions are all viable for us. TIA, Jim DeMarco Director Application Development Hudson Health Plan **************************************************************************** ******* "This electronic message is intended to be for the use only of the named recipient, and may contain information from Hudson Health Plan (HHP) that is confidential or privileged. If you are not the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any disclosure, copying, distribution or use of the contents of this message is strictly prohibited. If you have received this message in error or are not the named recipient, please notify us immediately, either by contacting the sender at the electronic mail address noted above or calling HHP at (914) 631-1611. If you are not the intended recipient, please do not forward this email to anyone, and delete and destroy all copies of this message. Thank You". **************************************************************************** ******* -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com *********************************************************************************** "This electronic message is intended to be for the use only of the named recipient, and may contain information from Hudson Health Plan (HHP) that is confidential or privileged. If you are not the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any disclosure, copying, distribution or use of the contents of this message is strictly prohibited. If you have received this message in error or are not the named recipient, please notify us immediately, either by contacting the sender at the electronic mail address noted above or calling HHP at (914) 631-1611. If you are not the intended recipient, please do not forward this email to anyone, and delete and destroy all copies of this message. Thank You". *********************************************************************************** From martyconnelly at shaw.ca Wed Mar 17 12:53:03 2004 From: martyconnelly at shaw.ca (MartyConnelly) Date: Wed, 17 Mar 2004 10:53:03 -0800 Subject: [AccessD] Tracking Outlook message arrival References: <22F1CCD5171D17419CB37FEEE09D5F9902E80024@TTNEXCHSRV1.hshhp.com> Message-ID: <40589E8F.9060506@shaw.ca> Might find something here Microsoft Exchange Server Scripting and Routing http://www.outlookcode.com/d/scripting.htm Jim DeMarco wrote: >List, > >We had a request to place Outlook mail items in an MDB as they arrived at a help desk mail account (Exchange). Our developer put code in the Outlook NewMail event to grab the fields we want and put them in the MDB. Problem is this method requires the e-mail account be open (running on a PC) and the user(s) don't want a PC just to run this app. > >Is there a way to monitor an e-mail account or hook into Exchange to grab this account's new mail as it hits the Inbox without running through Outlook? Outlook VBA, VB, or Access 97 solutions are all viable for us. > >TIA, > >Jim DeMarco >Director Application Development >Hudson Health Plan > > > >*********************************************************************************** >"This electronic message is intended to be for the use only of the named recipient, and may contain information from Hudson Health Plan (HHP) that is confidential or privileged. If you are not the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any disclosure, copying, distribution or use of the contents of this message is strictly prohibited. If you have received this message in error or are not the named recipient, please notify us immediately, either by contacting the sender at the electronic mail address noted above or calling HHP at (914) 631-1611. If you are not the intended recipient, please do not forward this email to anyone, and delete and destroy all copies of this message. Thank You". >*********************************************************************************** > > > -- Marty Connelly Victoria, B.C. Canada From Bryan_Carbonnell at cbc.ca Wed Mar 17 12:56:16 2004 From: Bryan_Carbonnell at cbc.ca (Bryan Carbonnell) Date: Wed, 17 Mar 2004 13:56:16 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Tracking Outlook message arrival Message-ID: Here is Google's cached version of the page: http://www.google.ca/search?q=cache:28nDM4gUJbUJ:www.hlyspirit.org.uk/cms/index.php/Extract_Outlook_to_Database/6/0/+Extract+Outlook+to+Database&hl=en&ie=UTF-8 There is a link, that works, to download the app. The direct link to download is http://www.hlyspirit.org.uk/cms/uploads/media/E2DBSetup.EXE Bryan Carbonnell bryan_carbonnell at cbc.ca >>> Jdemarco at hudsonhealthplan.org 17-Mar-04 1:48:46 PM >>> Well here's a strange one for you. At the bottom of this page from this link there's what looks like the perfect link "Extract Outlook Email to Database" but when you click it it goes to a Church of England web site were there arre other links to Outlook code but they go nowhere. Go figure. Jim DeMarco From MPorter at acsalaska.com Wed Mar 17 13:02:51 2004 From: MPorter at acsalaska.com (Porter, Mark) Date: Wed, 17 Mar 2004 10:02:51 -0900 Subject: [AccessD] OT: Interfacing => Datamodel Message-ID: You may want to investigate BizTalk to assist you in this. > -----Original Message----- > From: S D [mailto:accessd667 at yahoo.com] > Sent: Tuesday, March 16, 2004 10:51 PM > To: accessd > Subject: [AccessD] OT: Interfacing => Datamodel > > > Hi group, > > I need some info regarding interfacing (messages between 2 > parties) not interfaces in VB , C++, etc.!! Could you please > comment on this: > > Process: > We receive and send interfaces (textfiles) with a specific > layout. There are about 100 types of different messages. > About 50 incoming and 50 outgoing. > > I've build a datamodel like this: > Importing files: > 1 table stores the data of the incoming file: (tblRawData) > Fields: > ID > FileName > MessageID (wich type of message is it?) > MessageData > Date > Time > > 1 table has lay-out information regarding all messages: > (tblMessageLayout) > MessageID (Message Type) > FieldName (different data fields) > StartPosition (at what position is the data for the field stored) > EndPosition (at what position is the data for the field stored) > Mandatory (Is this a mandatory field?) > > 1 table with the layout as stored in the table above for > every Message Type. (tblMessageX) > To store the data of the interface file. I would have 100 of > these tables > > Example: > MessageType 10 has the following fields: > Field StartPosition EndPosition Mandatory | Example data > ID 1 8 YES > | 12345678 > CustID 9 15 YES | 100235 > Street 16 35 NO | > KennedyLane > Housenr 36 38 NO | 15 > etc > etc > > The interface could look like this: > 12345678100235KennedyLane15 > 12345677100266St.Anna 6 > 12345645100322blablabla 10 > > I want to store every line in the table tblRawData. After > that I use the tblMessageLayout to export the data in > tblRawData to tblMessage10 > The table tblMessageLayout has (for Message 10) the following data: > > MessageID FieldName StartPosition EndPosition Mandatory > 10 ID 1 8 > Y > 10 CustID 9 15 > Y > 10 Street 16 35 > N > etc > > > Could this approach work? What didn't I think of? What are > known traps for interfacing? > > TIA > > Sander > > Do you Yahoo!? > Yahoo! Mail - More reliable, more storage, less spam > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > *********************************************************************************** 17/3/2004 This transmittal may contain confidential information intended solely for the addressee. If you are not the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that you have received this transmittal in error; any review, dissemination, distribution or copying of this transmittal is strictly prohibited. If you have received this communication in error, please notify us immediately by reply or by telephone (collect at 907-564-1000) and ask to speak with the message sender. In addition, please immediately delete this message and all attachments. Thank you. ACS From Jdemarco at hudsonhealthplan.org Wed Mar 17 13:05:10 2004 From: Jdemarco at hudsonhealthplan.org (Jim DeMarco) Date: Wed, 17 Mar 2004 14:05:10 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Tracking Outlook message arrival Message-ID: <22F1CCD5171D17419CB37FEEE09D5F99030FE5A8@TTNEXCHSRV1.hshhp.com> Thanks Marty. I hadn't had time to snoop the site but this looks promising. Jim D. -----Original Message----- From: MartyConnelly [mailto:martyconnelly at shaw.ca] Sent: Wednesday, March 17, 2004 1:53 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Tracking Outlook message arrival Might find something here Microsoft Exchange Server Scripting and Routing http://www.outlookcode.com/d/scripting.htm Jim DeMarco wrote: >List, > >We had a request to place Outlook mail items in an MDB as they arrived at a help desk mail account (Exchange). Our developer put code in the Outlook NewMail event to grab the fields we want and put them in the MDB. Problem is this method requires the e-mail account be open (running on a PC) and the user(s) don't want a PC just to run this app. > >Is there a way to monitor an e-mail account or hook into Exchange to grab this account's new mail as it hits the Inbox without running through Outlook? Outlook VBA, VB, or Access 97 solutions are all viable for us. > >TIA, > >Jim DeMarco >Director Application Development >Hudson Health Plan > > > >*********************************************************************************** >"This electronic message is intended to be for the use only of the named recipient, and may contain information from Hudson Health Plan (HHP) that is confidential or privileged. If you are not the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any disclosure, copying, distribution or use of the contents of this message is strictly prohibited. If you have received this message in error or are not the named recipient, please notify us immediately, either by contacting the sender at the electronic mail address noted above or calling HHP at (914) 631-1611. If you are not the intended recipient, please do not forward this email to anyone, and delete and destroy all copies of this message. Thank You". >*********************************************************************************** > > > -- Marty Connelly Victoria, B.C. Canada -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com *********************************************************************************** "This electronic message is intended to be for the use only of the named recipient, and may contain information from Hudson Health Plan (HHP) that is confidential or privileged. If you are not the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any disclosure, copying, distribution or use of the contents of this message is strictly prohibited. If you have received this message in error or are not the named recipient, please notify us immediately, either by contacting the sender at the electronic mail address noted above or calling HHP at (914) 631-1611. If you are not the intended recipient, please do not forward this email to anyone, and delete and destroy all copies of this message. Thank You". *********************************************************************************** From MPorter at acsalaska.com Wed Mar 17 13:09:11 2004 From: MPorter at acsalaska.com (Porter, Mark) Date: Wed, 17 Mar 2004 10:09:11 -0900 Subject: [AccessD] Short Date Input Mask question Message-ID: My solution for wrist/arm pain was to learn to use the mouse left-handed. Back when I was working and consulting in the evenings, I would use the left hand at work and right hand in the evenings. Now I just switch off. Nothing but occasional soreness now and again for the last 4 years. Mark > -----Original Message----- > From: Charlotte Foust [mailto:cfoust at infostatsystems.com] > Sent: Wednesday, March 17, 2004 8:38 AM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: RE: [AccessD] Short Date Input Mask question > > > Hah! I got tendonitis in my thumb using a trackball. Had to > go back to > a mouse. That just shows that there is no single right answer. :-} > > Charlotte Foust > > -----Original Message----- > From: William Hindman [mailto:wdhindman at bellsouth.net] > Sent: Wednesday, March 17, 2004 9:25 AM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: Re: [AccessD] Short Date Input Mask question > > > ...shortcut keys/number pad activate each calendar function > ...and I've > got every client converted to trackballs instead of mice ...I used to > have severe CTS using a mouse but since moving to trackballs I've been > symptom free :) > > William Hindman > You know the world is upside down when Bill Clinton wins a Grammy and > Janet Jackson is the subject of a government sex investigation. Argus > Hamilton. > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Heenan, Lambert" > To: "'Access Developers discussion and problem solving'" > > Sent: Wednesday, March 17, 2004 10:52 AM > Subject: RE: [AccessD] Short Date Input Mask question > > > > Bryan, > > > > Point taken. This was why I made the comment about mass > data input. In > point > > of fact it is possible, though a bit clunky, to select a > date with the > > > keyboard, and I should perhaps revisit the design on the > form to make > > it easier to do so. > > > > RSI is a serious problem, and I sympathize with your for having to > > deal > with > > it. However it's not confined to mouse use, indeed I > remember it first > being > > reported back in the 80's before mice very prevalent. In those days > > the blame was laid at the door of the extreme ease with > which computer > keyboards > > operated vs. manual typewriters. This allowed for very rapid > > keystrokes, which was thought to be the root cause of RSI. > > > > I also see people who have bizarre ideas about how they should > > position their keyboards and mice. In short there are lots > of factors > > involved, and at the end of the day the user has to figure out the > > best way to use the d*mned machines. So, to reiterate, I think I'll > > take the time to redesign > my > > date picker form to allow for better keyboard use of it. > > > > Lambert > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > From: Bryan Carbonnell [SMTP:Bryan_Carbonnell at cbc.ca] > > > Sent: Wednesday, March 17, 2004 9:52 AM > > > To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com > > > Subject: RE: [AccessD] Short Date Input Mask question > > > > > > Lambert, > > > > > > It may work fine for you, but does it work for your users? Do you > > > force them to use the mouse to select the date, or can they do > > > everything they need to from the keyboard? > > > > > > The only reason I bring this up is that I have had RSI > from moving > > > between the mouse and keyboard for data entry too much. It got to > > > the point where by 10 AM I could not feel my little > finger and half > > > of my lower arm becaude of it. > > > > > > As soon as I got one application that I used on a regular > basis more > > > > keyboard friendly it helped. > > > > > > Just try to keep that in mind. I know I always do. I let > users use > > > the mouse or enter with the keyboard. Their choice. > > > > > > Bryan Carbonnell > > > bryan_carbonnell at cbc.ca > > > > > > > > > >>> Lambert.Heenan at AIG.com 17-Mar-04 9:21:45 AM >>> > > > My solution to date entry is simple - I never let user's > type in a > > > date. They always pick the date from a simple calendar > form (though > > > I don't use > > > the MS Calendar control). Click on a date field and up > pops the date > > > picker. > > > While this would not be suitable, perhaps, in applications where > > > massive > > > numbers of dates need to be entered, I find it works just fine for > me. > > > > > > Lambert > > > > > > -- > > > _______________________________________________ > > > AccessD mailing list > > > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > > > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > -- > > _______________________________________________ > > AccessD mailing list > > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > *********************************************************************************** 17/3/2004 This transmittal may contain confidential information intended solely for the addressee. If you are not the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that you have received this transmittal in error; any review, dissemination, distribution or copying of this transmittal is strictly prohibited. If you have received this communication in error, please notify us immediately by reply or by telephone (collect at 907-564-1000) and ask to speak with the message sender. In addition, please immediately delete this message and all attachments. Thank you. ACS From rl_stewart at highstream.net Wed Mar 17 13:10:34 2004 From: rl_stewart at highstream.net (Robert L. Stewart) Date: Wed, 17 Mar 2004 13:10:34 -0600 Subject: [AccessD] Re: Detecting when an Access Report has been closed In-Reply-To: <200403171800.i2HI0NM13633@databaseadvisors.com> Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20040317130626.029ede88@pop3.highstream.net> Rick, The simple way would be to set the value of a global variable. In the OnClose event of the report: gflgReportClosed = True In the OnOpen event of the report: gflgReportClosed = False In a regular module declarations section: Public gflgReportClosed as boolean Now, you can check from anywhere in the program to see if it is open or closed. Robert At 12:00 PM 3/17/2004 -0600, you wrote: >Date: Wed, 17 Mar 2004 09:30:06 -0800 (PST) >From: Dick Abo >Subject: [AccessD] RE: Detecting when an Access Report has been > closed >To: accessd at databaseAdvisors.com >Message-ID: <20040317173006.82738.qmail at web13009.mail.yahoo.com> >Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii > >Charlotte: > >A few days ago I posted a question dealing with the detection of when an >Access 2K generated reported has been closed by the user. I was referred >to the WithEvents keyword and sinking the close event of the report. I've >checked out some info in A2K on-line help and in the A97 ADH referencing >the topic of the 'WithEvents' keyword. > >The examples dealt with event sink classes for Microsoft Word and a >'frmWithEventsWatch' form. I'm not sure how automating to MS Word affects >an Access generated report. It appears to be more in-depth that I would >like to go at thie time. I expect that this may be the only time that I >will ever have to use this method. > >I also attempted to search the archives using 'WITHEVENTS' as the search >key, but I seemed to be unsuccessful at pulling up related examples and >material. > >Is there some sample code out there that deals with this topic and that >doesn't get too deep? > >Regards, > >Rick Abo From martyconnelly at shaw.ca Wed Mar 17 13:14:15 2004 From: martyconnelly at shaw.ca (MartyConnelly) Date: Wed, 17 Mar 2004 11:14:15 -0800 Subject: [AccessD] Slightly OT: Access/Office 2003 with Multilingual User Pack on Terminal Server/Citrix Metaframe References: Message-ID: <4058A387.4060805@shaw.ca> I do French or English input on the same Access 97 form by bringing up the windows xp language bar and testing or forcing a language switch on the keyboard depending on which textbox is active. This probably not the only way to do it. I am not sure how this would work via Citrix. Michael Br?sdorf wrote: >Dear group, > >one of my customers thinks it would be a good idea to install Office 2003 >along with a Multilingual User Pack on a Citrix Metaframe server to have >localized (that is English and German) user interfaces for all Office >applications. Unfortunately it is pretty hard to find any related info. Does >anyone have experience with such a configuration? > >TIA, > >Michael > > > -- Marty Connelly Victoria, B.C. Canada From gustav at cactus.dk Wed Mar 17 13:14:56 2004 From: gustav at cactus.dk (Gustav Brock) Date: Wed, 17 Mar 2004 20:14:56 +0100 Subject: [AccessD] RE: Detecting when an Access Report has been closed In-Reply-To: <20040317173006.82738.qmail@web13009.mail.yahoo.com> References: <20040317173006.82738.qmail@web13009.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <13741217677.20040317201456@cactus.dk> Hi Dick Well, it's about time to repost the link to the ultimate source on this topic. Study the articles and demos at the site of Shamil: http://smsconsulting.spb.ru/shamil_s/articles.htm /gustav > A few days ago I posted a question dealing with the detection of when an Access 2K generated reported has been closed by the user. I was referred to the WithEvents keyword and sinking the close > event of the report. I've checked out some info in A2K on-line help and in the A97 ADH referencing the topic of the 'WithEvents' keyword. > The examples dealt with event sink classes for Microsoft Word and a 'frmWithEventsWatch' form. I'm not sure how automating to MS Word affects an Access generated report. It appears to be more > in-depth that I would like to go at thie time. I expect that this may be the only time that I will ever have to use this method. > I also attempted to search the archives using 'WITHEVENTS' as the search key, but I seemed to be unsuccessful at pulling up related examples and material. > Is there some sample code out there that deals with this topic and that doesn't get too deep? > Regards, > Rick Abo From gustav at cactus.dk Wed Mar 17 13:19:42 2004 From: gustav at cactus.dk (Gustav Brock) Date: Wed, 17 Mar 2004 20:19:42 +0100 Subject: [AccessD] OT: Interfacing => Datamodel In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <11041503629.20040317201942@cactus.dk> Hi Sander > You may want to investigate BizTalk to assist you in this. If you are prepared to this, Ensemble from InterSystems could be interesting as well: http://www.intersystems.com/ensemble/index.html /gustav >> I need some info regarding interfacing (messages between 2 >> parties) not interfaces in VB , C++, etc.!! Could you please >> comment on this: >> >> Process: >> We receive and send interfaces (textfiles) with a specific >> layout. There are about 100 types of different messages. >> About 50 incoming and 50 outgoing. >> >> I've build a datamodel like this: >> Importing files: >> 1 table stores the data of the incoming file: (tblRawData) >> Fields: >> ID >> FileName >> MessageID (wich type of message is it?) >> MessageData >> Date >> Time >> >> 1 table has lay-out information regarding all messages: >> (tblMessageLayout) >> MessageID (Message Type) >> FieldName (different data fields) >> StartPosition (at what position is the data for the field stored) >> EndPosition (at what position is the data for the field stored) >> Mandatory (Is this a mandatory field?) >> >> 1 table with the layout as stored in the table above for >> every Message Type. (tblMessageX) >> To store the data of the interface file. I would have 100 of >> these tables >> >> Example: >> MessageType 10 has the following fields: >> Field StartPosition EndPosition Mandatory | Example data >> ID 1 8 YES >> | 12345678 >> CustID 9 15 YES | 100235 >> Street 16 35 NO | >> KennedyLane >> Housenr 36 38 NO | 15 >> etc >> etc >> >> The interface could look like this: >> 12345678100235KennedyLane15 >> 12345677100266St.Anna 6 >> 12345645100322blablabla 10 >> >> I want to store every line in the table tblRawData. After >> that I use the tblMessageLayout to export the data in >> tblRawData to tblMessage10 >> The table tblMessageLayout has (for Message 10) the following data: >> >> MessageID FieldName StartPosition EndPosition Mandatory >> 10 ID 1 8 >> Y >> 10 CustID 9 15 >> Y >> 10 Street 16 35 >> N >> etc >> >> >> Could this approach work? What didn't I think of? What are >> known traps for interfacing? From michael.broesdorf at web.de Wed Mar 17 13:29:38 2004 From: michael.broesdorf at web.de (=?iso-8859-1?Q?Michael_Br=F6sdorf?=) Date: Wed, 17 Mar 2004 20:29:38 +0100 Subject: AW: [AccessD] Slightly OT: Access/Office 2003 with Multilingual UserPack on Terminal Server/Citrix Metaframe In-Reply-To: <4058A387.4060805@shaw.ca> Message-ID: But that will change only the keyboard behaviour!? With the multilingual thingy you can change the language of the user interface (menu's, error messages etc.). From what I've heard so far switching to another language acutally replaced a couple of DLL's. Michael -----Urspr?ngliche Nachricht----- Von: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]Im Auftrag von MartyConnelly Gesendet: Mittwoch, 17. M?rz 2004 20:14 An: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Betreff: Re: [AccessD] Slightly OT: Access/Office 2003 with Multilingual UserPack on Terminal Server/Citrix Metaframe I do French or English input on the same Access 97 form by bringing up the windows xp language bar and testing or forcing a language switch on the keyboard depending on which textbox is active. This probably not the only way to do it. I am not sure how this would work via Citrix. Michael Br?sdorf wrote: >Dear group, > >one of my customers thinks it would be a good idea to install Office 2003 >along with a Multilingual User Pack on a Citrix Metaframe server to have >localized (that is English and German) user interfaces for all Office >applications. Unfortunately it is pretty hard to find any related info. Does >anyone have experience with such a configuration? > >TIA, > >Michael > > > -- Marty Connelly Victoria, B.C. Canada -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From rusty.hammond at cpiqpc.com Wed Mar 17 13:30:10 2004 From: rusty.hammond at cpiqpc.com (rusty.hammond at cpiqpc.com) Date: Wed, 17 Mar 2004 13:30:10 -0600 Subject: [AccessD] OT Wrist/Arm Pain - was Short Date Input Mask quest ion Message-ID: <8301C8A868251E4C8ECD3D4FFEA40F8A0811A98B@cpixchng-1.cpiqpc.net> I've switched my mouse to left handed at work as well. What has really helped the most for me is a quick set of wrist excercises I do each morning. Takes about 2 minutes to do. -----Original Message----- From: Porter, Mark [mailto:MPorter at acsalaska.com] Sent: Wednesday, March 17, 2004 1:09 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: [AccessD] Short Date Input Mask question My solution for wrist/arm pain was to learn to use the mouse left-handed. Back when I was working and consulting in the evenings, I would use the left hand at work and right hand in the evenings. Now I just switch off. Nothing but occasional soreness now and again for the last 4 years. Mark > -----Original Message----- > From: Charlotte Foust [mailto:cfoust at infostatsystems.com] > Sent: Wednesday, March 17, 2004 8:38 AM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: RE: [AccessD] Short Date Input Mask question > > > Hah! I got tendonitis in my thumb using a trackball. Had to > go back to > a mouse. That just shows that there is no single right answer. :-} > > Charlotte Foust > > -----Original Message----- > From: William Hindman [mailto:wdhindman at bellsouth.net] > Sent: Wednesday, March 17, 2004 9:25 AM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: Re: [AccessD] Short Date Input Mask question > > > ...shortcut keys/number pad activate each calendar function > ...and I've > got every client converted to trackballs instead of mice ...I used to > have severe CTS using a mouse but since moving to trackballs I've been > symptom free :) > > William Hindman > You know the world is upside down when Bill Clinton wins a Grammy and > Janet Jackson is the subject of a government sex investigation. Argus > Hamilton. > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Heenan, Lambert" > To: "'Access Developers discussion and problem solving'" > > Sent: Wednesday, March 17, 2004 10:52 AM > Subject: RE: [AccessD] Short Date Input Mask question > > > > Bryan, > > > > Point taken. This was why I made the comment about mass > data input. In > point > > of fact it is possible, though a bit clunky, to select a > date with the > > > keyboard, and I should perhaps revisit the design on the > form to make > > it easier to do so. > > > > RSI is a serious problem, and I sympathize with your for having to > > deal > with > > it. However it's not confined to mouse use, indeed I > remember it first > being > > reported back in the 80's before mice very prevalent. In those days > > the blame was laid at the door of the extreme ease with > which computer > keyboards > > operated vs. manual typewriters. This allowed for very rapid > > keystrokes, which was thought to be the root cause of RSI. > > > > I also see people who have bizarre ideas about how they should > > position their keyboards and mice. In short there are lots > of factors > > involved, and at the end of the day the user has to figure out the > > best way to use the d*mned machines. So, to reiterate, I think I'll > > take the time to redesign > my > > date picker form to allow for better keyboard use of it. > > > > Lambert > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > From: Bryan Carbonnell [SMTP:Bryan_Carbonnell at cbc.ca] > > > Sent: Wednesday, March 17, 2004 9:52 AM > > > To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com > > > Subject: RE: [AccessD] Short Date Input Mask question > > > > > > Lambert, > > > > > > It may work fine for you, but does it work for your users? Do you > > > force them to use the mouse to select the date, or can they do > > > everything they need to from the keyboard? > > > > > > The only reason I bring this up is that I have had RSI > from moving > > > between the mouse and keyboard for data entry too much. It got to > > > the point where by 10 AM I could not feel my little > finger and half > > > of my lower arm becaude of it. > > > > > > As soon as I got one application that I used on a regular > basis more > > > > keyboard friendly it helped. > > > > > > Just try to keep that in mind. I know I always do. I let > users use > > > the mouse or enter with the keyboard. Their choice. > > > > > > Bryan Carbonnell > > > bryan_carbonnell at cbc.ca > > > > > > > > > >>> Lambert.Heenan at AIG.com 17-Mar-04 9:21:45 AM >>> > > > My solution to date entry is simple - I never let user's > type in a > > > date. They always pick the date from a simple calendar > form (though > > > I don't use > > > the MS Calendar control). Click on a date field and up > pops the date > > > picker. > > > While this would not be suitable, perhaps, in applications where > > > massive > > > numbers of dates need to be entered, I find it works just fine for > me. > > > > > > Lambert > > > > > > -- > > > _______________________________________________ > > > AccessD mailing list > > > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > > > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > -- > > _______________________________________________ > > AccessD mailing list > > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > **************************************************************************** ******* 17/3/2004 This transmittal may contain confidential information intended solely for the addressee. If you are not the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that you have received this transmittal in error; any review, dissemination, distribution or copying of this transmittal is strictly prohibited. If you have received this communication in error, please notify us immediately by reply or by telephone (collect at 907-564-1000) and ask to speak with the message sender. In addition, please immediately delete this message and all attachments. Thank you. ACS -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From DWUTKA at marlow.com Wed Mar 17 13:38:48 2004 From: DWUTKA at marlow.com (DWUTKA at marlow.com) Date: Wed, 17 Mar 2004 13:38:48 -0600 Subject: [AccessD] Terminal Server and Access XP Message-ID: <2F8793082E00D4119A1700B0D0216BF802227982@main2.marlow.com> I would make the users part of the power users group on the TS. Drew -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Lonnie Johnson Sent: Tuesday, March 16, 2004 2:57 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] Terminal Server and Access XP No, fairly novice. The admin actually has the terminal servers' desktop hidden and they come straight into a web page that gives them their windows and web application options. DWUTKA at marlow.com wrote:If it works logged in as an Admin, then it's a permissions issue. Are the logged in users 'power users'? Drew -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Lonnie Johnson Sent: Tuesday, March 16, 2004 7:04 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] Terminal Server and Access XP Nope. I was kinda hoping there was. It works if we log onto the terminal server as administrator, but not as a regular user. Would this be at the registry level? DWUTKA at marlow.com wrote:Any missing references? Drew -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Lonnie Johnson Sent: Monday, March 15, 2004 3:56 PM To: 'MS-ACCESS-L at lists.missouri.edu'; AccessDevelopers; ms_access; AccessD solving' Subject: [AccessD] Terminal Server and Access XP Users are getting a "Run-Time error 13, type mis match" when the application tries to cycle through some controls with the following: Dim ctl as Control For Each ctl in Me.Controls... This works fine in A97 and XP on regular machines. It even works for the administrator on a terminal server machine, but not regular users on terminal server. Anyone have a clue????????? Lonnie Johnson ProDev, Professional Development of MS Access Databases Visit me at ==> http://www.prodev.us Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Mail - More reliable, more storage, less spam -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com Lonnie Johnson ProDev, Professional Development of MS Access Databases Visit me at ==> http://www.prodev.us Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Mail - More reliable, more storage, less spam -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com Lonnie Johnson ProDev, Professional Development of MS Access Databases Visit me at ==> http://www.prodev.us Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Mail - More reliable, more storage, less spam -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From DWUTKA at marlow.com Wed Mar 17 13:40:30 2004 From: DWUTKA at marlow.com (DWUTKA at marlow.com) Date: Wed, 17 Mar 2004 13:40:30 -0600 Subject: [AccessD] Short Date Input Mask question Message-ID: <2F8793082E00D4119A1700B0D0216BF802227983@main2.marlow.com> If it makes you feel any better JC, I don't read the posts you take hours writing.... Just kidding. I do read most of them. Too busy to read everything lately... Drew -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of John W. Colby Sent: Tuesday, March 16, 2004 4:35 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] Short Date Input Mask question Stuart, that is a silly thing to say, and exactly the reason that I can't help but wonder whether anyone at all reads the posts I spend hours writing and writing example code for. Of course "Access does that just fine by itself if you set the format property to "d mmm yyyyy". And now, WE (you and I) have an application where our respective clients say "I hate that format". I don't know what You do but I go into my sysvar table and change a SysVar. The next time the app opens all date fields are formatted however the client wants. What exactly DO you do? To a man with a search and replace program.... Shall I just abandon my attempts to educate this list about what frameworks can do? Seems a shame, but it sure appears I've wasted about 30 hours so far. John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Stuart McLachlan Sent: Tuesday, March 16, 2004 5:10 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problemsolving Subject: RE: [AccessD] Short Date Input Mask question On 16 Mar 2004 at 15:40, John W. Colby wrote: > A great case for a framework. Define the various formats you use in your > text boxes and then tell the framework to figure out that it's a date and > apply a format. > To a man with a hammer....... :-) Access does that just fine by itself if you set the format property to "d mmm yyyyy" or whatever you want in the particular situation. -- Lexacorp Ltd http://www.lexacorp.com.pg Information Technology Consultancy, Software Development,System Support. -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From jwelz at hotmail.com Wed Mar 17 13:45:29 2004 From: jwelz at hotmail.com (Jürgen Welz) Date: Wed, 17 Mar 2004 12:45:29 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] Short Date Input Mask question Message-ID: At one point a few years ago at this list I made a similar comment saying I provided a doubleclick pop up calendar and received a similar response. As a result, I once logged usage of: Double click pop up calendar vs Key down with form key preview on, Alt-d pops calendar if screen active control had a standard input mask property. I also considered a keyboard autokeys macro call a runcode that did the same thing but never did implement this version. Logging indicated that well over 98% of the data entry was by double click popup calendar. Granted these were very 'unsophisticated' users but the majority of their daily tasks involved interaction with the application. I do not believe that providing a pop up calendar is incorrect especially as the users can tab into a date field and use a keyboard in any event. IIRC, I had changed the display format and input mask dynamically in the past so that a user could key in 'mm/dd/yy' but the display format whenever the control didn't have focus was 'mmm/dd/yyyy'. I also added a label displaying the input format at each date entry textbox so there was never a question as to the required input sequence. I also believe that one of the reasons that my users like my pop up calendar is because it also displays appointments and blocked off dates for that user and other office staff (selected in multiselect list). It can be popped by keyboard or by doubleclick and can be navigated by mouse or cursor or page keys (for months) and you can tab into a year textbox. The months are each on a tab wtih Alt-character navigation and cursoring down past the end of one month moves to the next month (and up to previous). Finally, the Enter keys accepts the date, sets the source textbox and dismisses the calendar and the Escape key dismisses the calendar without setting or changing a date. I am a firm believer in always providing a keyboard navigation method, but that never precludes adding a mouse alternative that does exactly the same thing. A pop up calendar can be entirely keyboard controlled at a cost of a few extra keystrokes for the rich graphical information that it can present. And just because it's there doesn't mean a user ever has to use it. It just turns out that my experience is that they will even though I have a prejudice for preferring to use the keyboard wherever possible. I suspect this prejudice afflicts most programmers. If only browers were more keyboard friendly. Ciao J?rgen Welz Edmonton, Alberta jwelz at hotmail.com >From: Brett Barabash > >I bet the data entry people love you! > >It may "work for you", but I'll bet that there are some users out there >that >feel otherwise. One of my biggest UI pet peeves is fields that disallow >keyboard entry. One record or 1000 records, it's still annoying to move >your hand off of the home row of your keyboard and click around to select a >date. > > >-----Original Message----- >From: Heenan, Lambert [mailto:Lambert.Heenan at aig.com] >Sent: Wednesday, March 17, 2004 8:22 AM >To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' >Subject: RE: [AccessD] Short Date Input Mask question > > >My solution to date entry is simple - I never let user's type in a date. >They always pick the date from a simple calendar form (though I don't use >the MS Calendar control). Click on a date field and up pops the date >picker. >While this would not be suitable, perhaps, in applications where massive >numbers of dates need to be entered, I find it works just fine for me. > >Lambert > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: Arthur Fuller [SMTP:artful at rogers.com] > > Sent: Tuesday, March 16, 2004 5:47 PM > > To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' > > Subject: [AccessD] Short Date Input Mask question > > > > The standard short date input mask (99/99/0000;0;_) has a shortcoming > > that I hate: you have to type 04/04/04 to get April 4th 2004. The year > > handling is nice but the month and day suck. The mask won't let you type > > 4/4/04. Is there an alternative mask that will respond intelligently to > > such input? Or should I instead just remove all the input masks from all > > the date fields? > > > > TIA, > > Arthur _________________________________________________________________ Find a broadband plan that fits. Great local deals on high-speed Internet access. http://click.atdmt.com/AVE/go/onm00200360ave/direct/01/ From DWUTKA at marlow.com Wed Mar 17 13:45:55 2004 From: DWUTKA at marlow.com (DWUTKA at marlow.com) Date: Wed, 17 Mar 2004 13:45:55 -0600 Subject: [AccessD] Re: [Private] Framework Discussion - Dependent Obje cts Message-ID: <2F8793082E00D4119A1700B0D0216BF802227985@main2.marlow.com> Gustav, Gustav, Gustav....you need to invest in VB 6. You could probably get it dirt cheap on eBay, and with your skills, you'll pick it up in a heart beat. A lot of people peg me as a VBer, simply because I use VB a lot. However, I'm all for the right tool for the right job. VB is just another tool. Now, if I could somehow merge the advantages of VB, with the advantages in Access, I would be a VERY happy camper! Drew -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Gustav Brock Sent: Wednesday, March 17, 2004 3:15 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Re: [Private] Framework Discussion - Dependent Obje cts Hi Drew Yes, that makes sense to me, though I don't have any tools to program dlls. I have some very general and well proven functions which I simply keep collected in some modules which I copy-paste into a new project as needed - not very fancy, I know, but it works. /gustav > I'm in the same situation as you. I find that building a 'framework' isn't > worth the effort, because I have to develop very diverse GUI's. It's not a > matter of re-using features, it's a matter of building specific features to > handle the task at hand. > At my full time job, however, I have found that one of the best practices I > can stick too, is to develop applications as 'stand-alone' objects, yet > leave room for interaction. So if I develop a library application for our > Drafting department, and later I develop a modeling package for the > engineers, if I need access to the drafting library, I can just 'reference' > the drafting department's .dll's. Makes life a lot easier. To me, that's > what I call a framework. It's not a generic thing from a functionality > standpoint, but more of a generic thing from a usability standpoint. > Make sense? -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From DWUTKA at marlow.com Wed Mar 17 13:47:48 2004 From: DWUTKA at marlow.com (DWUTKA at marlow.com) Date: Wed, 17 Mar 2004 13:47:48 -0600 Subject: Code Library: RE: [AccessD] Re: [Private] Framework Discussion - Dependent Obje cts Message-ID: <2F8793082E00D4119A1700B0D0216BF802227986@main2.marlow.com> Just recovered for a very NASTY crash of my RAID 5 data drive. I have toyed around with a code library of sorts before, but this recent headache is giving a serious push into digging into that project again. Anyone interested in helping out/beta testing? Drew -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of William Hindman Sent: Wednesday, March 17, 2004 7:32 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Re: [Private] Framework Discussion - Dependent Obje cts "some very general and well proven functions which I simply keep collected in some modules which I copy-paste into a new project as needed - not very fancy, I know, but it works." gustav ...me too :) ...I tried JC's framework a couple years ago and, for me, found myself putting as much or more effort into it as I was client apps ...but otoh banging around in his framework taught me "with events" coding and many other techniques that I can't imagine not using in every app today ...I'm clearly not nearly as disciplined about coding as JC, Jurgen, Shamil and some other gurus here are so I just make do with a template mdb much as you describe. :) William Hindman You know the world is upside down when Bill Clinton wins a Grammy and Janet Jackson is the subject of a government sex investigation. Argus Hamilton. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Gustav Brock" To: "Access Developers discussion and problem solving" Sent: Wednesday, March 17, 2004 4:14 AM Subject: Re: [AccessD] Re: [Private] Framework Discussion - Dependent Obje cts > Hi Drew > > Yes, that makes sense to me, though I don't have any tools to program > dlls. I have some very general and well proven functions which I > simply keep collected in some modules which I copy-paste into a new > project as needed - not very fancy, I know, but it works. > > /gustav > > > I'm in the same situation as you. I find that building a 'framework' isn't > > worth the effort, because I have to develop very diverse GUI's. It's not a > > matter of re-using features, it's a matter of building specific features to > > handle the task at hand. > > > At my full time job, however, I have found that one of the best practices I > > can stick too, is to develop applications as 'stand-alone' objects, yet > > leave room for interaction. So if I develop a library application for our > > Drafting department, and later I develop a modeling package for the > > engineers, if I need access to the drafting library, I can just 'reference' > > the drafting department's .dll's. Makes life a lot easier. To me, that's > > what I call a framework. It's not a generic thing from a functionality > > standpoint, but more of a generic thing from a usability standpoint. > > > Make sense? > > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From DWUTKA at marlow.com Wed Mar 17 13:50:45 2004 From: DWUTKA at marlow.com (DWUTKA at marlow.com) Date: Wed, 17 Mar 2004 13:50:45 -0600 Subject: [AccessD] Short Date Input Mask question Message-ID: <2F8793082E00D4119A1700B0D0216BF802227988@main2.marlow.com> Exactly why my 'new' MiniCalendar is keyboard friendly. Had a lot of complaints about that. Drew -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Bryan Carbonnell Sent: Wednesday, March 17, 2004 8:52 AM To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: RE: [AccessD] Short Date Input Mask question Lambert, It may work fine for you, but does it work for your users? Do you force them to use the mouse to select the date, or can they do everything they need to from the keyboard? The only reason I bring this up is that I have had RSI from moving between the mouse and keyboard for data entry too much. It got to the point where by 10 AM I could not feel my little finger and half of my lower arm becaude of it. As soon as I got one application that I used on a regular basis more keyboard friendly it helped. Just try to keep that in mind. I know I always do. I let users use the mouse or enter with the keyboard. Their choice. Bryan Carbonnell bryan_carbonnell at cbc.ca >>> Lambert.Heenan at AIG.com 17-Mar-04 9:21:45 AM >>> My solution to date entry is simple - I never let user's type in a date. They always pick the date from a simple calendar form (though I don't use the MS Calendar control). Click on a date field and up pops the date picker. While this would not be suitable, perhaps, in applications where massive numbers of dates need to be entered, I find it works just fine for me. Lambert -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From martyconnelly at shaw.ca Wed Mar 17 14:00:45 2004 From: martyconnelly at shaw.ca (MartyConnelly) Date: Wed, 17 Mar 2004 12:00:45 -0800 Subject: [AccessD] Access 2003 Developer Edition? References: <002101c40c4c$4fc11c00$bf00a8c0@dabsight> <012801c40c4f$cdf39960$6601a8c0@HAL9002> Message-ID: <4058AE6D.1080901@shaw.ca> I think you can just stick the ODE97 CD-ROM in the drive or maybe just copy it to a hard drive as a backup It may still ask for the key though. I do this with a 97 upgrade and have copied all the Access 2 floppy install disks to a hard drive directory. MS searchs it out on the install. Rocky Smolin - Beach Access Software wrote: >John: > >DO you know if I have to have the ODE97 installed to install the Visual >Studio Tools for the Microsoft Office System upgrade? Or will it just ask >for a CD key, maybe? > >Rocky > >----- Original Message ----- >From: "DJK(John) Robinson" >To: "'Access Developers discussion and problem solving'" > >Sent: Wednesday, March 17, 2004 10:18 AM >Subject: RE: [AccessD] Access 2003 Developer Edition? > > > > >>[Visual Studio Tools for the Microsoft Office System] >> >>Yes, there is a "tools upgrade" price: 60% off the Full price. Rocky's >>ODE97 will qualify him for it. See: >>http://msdn.microsoft.com/vstudio/howtobuy/officetools/ >> >>Access 2003 Developer Extensions, VB .NET Standard Edition, and SQLS 2000 >>Developer Edition are included in VST4MSOS. As Marty said, see: >>http://msdn.microsoft.com/vstudio/office/ >> >> >>The different *Office* 2003 editions are listed in: >>http://www.microsoft.com/office/editions/howtobuy/compare.mspx >> >> >>No personal experience yet of the Package Wizard, but I've heard good >>reports of it. >> >>HTH >>John >> >> >> >> >>>-----Original Message----- >>>From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com >>>[mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of >>>Charlotte Foust >>>Sent: 17 March 2004 16:06 >>>To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving >>>Subject: RE: [AccessD] Access 2003 Developer Edition? >>> >>> >>>I don't think there is a "tools upgrade" price, Rocky. A >>>developer license gives you the right to upgrade to Pro or >>>Premium (I can't keep the versions straight) in 2003. I >>>never saw an upgrade path to the VSTO package anywhere I >>>looked. Developer gives you an upgrade path to Visual >>>Studio.Net, I believe, but the VSTO is a separate package. >>> >>>Charlotte Foust >>> >>>-----Original Message----- >>>From: Rocky Smolin - Beach Access Software [mailto:bchacc at san.rr.com] >>>Sent: Tuesday, March 16, 2004 8:58 PM >>>To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving >>>Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access 2003 Developer Edition? >>> >>> >>>Marty: >>> >>>A couple of weeks ago I was asking about deploying an Access >>>product and trying to decide whether to go with Wise/Sagekey >>>A2K script with an A2K mde. But I'd have to buy the A2K >>>developer edition. as well as the Sagekey script. >>> >>>Now it appears, IIUC, that I could buy Office 2003 and the >>>Office Developer Tools (I've got A97 Developer license so I >>>could get the Tools upgrade price, I think), and use the >>>Developer Tools packaging wizard. >>> >>>>From the article it appears that the Packaging Wizard is pretty good. >>> >>> >>>>I >>>> >>>> >>>didn't detect any of the 'it really stinks' kind of review of >>>earlier Access packagers. >>> >>>Has you or anyone had any experience with it yet? Is it a >>>reasonable alternative? It probably would have a longer life >>>than going with an A2K solution. One requirement I see is >>>that the target machine has to have W2K or WXP but that >>>shouldn't be too much of a problem as time goes on. >>> >>>Regards, >>> >>>Rocky Smolin >>>Beach Access Software >>>http://www.e-z-mrp.com >>> >>> >>>----- Original Message ----- >>>From: "MartyConnelly" >>>To: "Access Developers discussion and problem solving" >>> >>>Sent: Monday, March 15, 2004 11:30 AM >>>Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access 2003 Developer Edition? >>> >>> >>> >>> >>>>The Access 2003 runtime ships with any version of Office >>>> >>>> >>>2003 that has >>> >>> >>>>Access 2003, the license to redistribute solutions with the Access >>>>runtime is available exclusively through the Access Developer >>>>Extensions. The Access Developer Extensions include the >>>> >>>> >>>Package Wizard >>> >>> >>>>and other developer-oriented tools. The Package Wizard creates a >>>>package based on an Access 2003 solution that users can install and >>>>uninstall with the Microsoft Windows Installer. You can >>>> >>>> >>>only acquire >>> >>> >>>>the Access Developer Extensions by buying the "Visual Studio Tools >>>>for the Microsoft Office System". >>>>http://msdn.microsoft.com/vstudio/office >>>> >>>> >>>> Packaging Access 2003 Solutions Rick Dobson >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >http://msdn.microsoft.com/library/default.asp?url=/library/en-us/dnsmart03/h > > >>tml/sa03j8.asp >> >> >>>Michael Br?sdorf wrote: >>> >>> >>> >>>>Hello, >>>> >>>>I noticed that there seems to no more Office 2003 Developers Edition. >>>>Is >>>> >>>> >>it >> >> >>>>still possible to create Run-Time applications with Access 2003? ` >>>>Michael >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>-- >>>Marty Connelly >>>Victoria, B.C. >>>Canada >>> >>> >>> >>-- >>_______________________________________________ >>AccessD mailing list >>AccessD at databaseadvisors.com >>http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd >>Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com >>-- >>_______________________________________________ >>AccessD mailing list >>AccessD at databaseadvisors.com >>http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd >>Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com >> >> >> > > > -- Marty Connelly Victoria, B.C. Canada From gustav at cactus.dk Wed Mar 17 13:59:38 2004 From: gustav at cactus.dk (Gustav Brock) Date: Wed, 17 Mar 2004 20:59:38 +0100 Subject: [AccessD] Re: [Private] Framework Discussion - Dependent Obje cts In-Reply-To: <2F8793082E00D4119A1700B0D0216BF802227985@main2.marlow.com> References: <2F8793082E00D4119A1700B0D0216BF802227985@main2.marlow.com> Message-ID: <15843899994.20040317205938@cactus.dk> Hi Drew Oh, so much to do and so little time. Right now I'm trying getting around the OO/SQL Cach? database engine. Extremely interesting but very different. My head is stuffed. /gustav > Gustav, Gustav, Gustav....you need to invest in VB 6. You could probably > get it dirt cheap on eBay, and with your skills, you'll pick it up in a > heart beat. > A lot of people peg me as a VBer, simply because I use VB a lot. However, > I'm all for the right tool for the right job. VB is just another tool. > Now, if I could somehow merge the advantages of VB, with the advantages in > Access, I would be a VERY happy camper! > Drew > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Gustav Brock > Sent: Wednesday, March 17, 2004 3:15 AM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: Re: [AccessD] Re: [Private] Framework Discussion - Dependent > Obje cts > Hi Drew > Yes, that makes sense to me, though I don't have any tools to program > dlls. I have some very general and well proven functions which I > simply keep collected in some modules which I copy-paste into a new > project as needed - not very fancy, I know, but it works. > /gustav From wdhindman at bellsouth.net Wed Mar 17 14:19:18 2004 From: wdhindman at bellsouth.net (William Hindman) Date: Wed, 17 Mar 2004 15:19:18 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Short Date Input Mask question References: Message-ID: <004f01c40c5d$207559f0$6101a8c0@dejpolsys> ...hhhmmm ...I use the Logitech marble with my left hand ...only thumb use is for a right click :) William Hindman You know the world is upside down when Bill Clinton wins a Grammy and Janet Jackson is the subject of a government sex investigation. Argus Hamilton. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Charlotte Foust" To: "Access Developers discussion and problem solving" Sent: Wednesday, March 17, 2004 12:37 PM Subject: RE: [AccessD] Short Date Input Mask question > Hah! I got tendonitis in my thumb using a trackball. Had to go back to > a mouse. That just shows that there is no single right answer. :-} > > Charlotte Foust > > -----Original Message----- > From: William Hindman [mailto:wdhindman at bellsouth.net] > Sent: Wednesday, March 17, 2004 9:25 AM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: Re: [AccessD] Short Date Input Mask question > > > ...shortcut keys/number pad activate each calendar function ...and I've > got every client converted to trackballs instead of mice ...I used to > have severe CTS using a mouse but since moving to trackballs I've been > symptom free :) > > William Hindman > You know the world is upside down when Bill Clinton wins a Grammy and > Janet Jackson is the subject of a government sex investigation. Argus > Hamilton. > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Heenan, Lambert" > To: "'Access Developers discussion and problem solving'" > > Sent: Wednesday, March 17, 2004 10:52 AM > Subject: RE: [AccessD] Short Date Input Mask question > > > > Bryan, > > > > Point taken. This was why I made the comment about mass data input. In > point > > of fact it is possible, though a bit clunky, to select a date with the > > > keyboard, and I should perhaps revisit the design on the form to make > > it easier to do so. > > > > RSI is a serious problem, and I sympathize with your for having to > > deal > with > > it. However it's not confined to mouse use, indeed I remember it first > being > > reported back in the 80's before mice very prevalent. In those days > > the blame was laid at the door of the extreme ease with which computer > keyboards > > operated vs. manual typewriters. This allowed for very rapid > > keystrokes, which was thought to be the root cause of RSI. > > > > I also see people who have bizarre ideas about how they should > > position their keyboards and mice. In short there are lots of factors > > involved, and at the end of the day the user has to figure out the > > best way to use the d*mned machines. So, to reiterate, I think I'll > > take the time to redesign > my > > date picker form to allow for better keyboard use of it. > > > > Lambert > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > From: Bryan Carbonnell [SMTP:Bryan_Carbonnell at cbc.ca] > > > Sent: Wednesday, March 17, 2004 9:52 AM > > > To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com > > > Subject: RE: [AccessD] Short Date Input Mask question > > > > > > Lambert, > > > > > > It may work fine for you, but does it work for your users? Do you > > > force them to use the mouse to select the date, or can they do > > > everything they need to from the keyboard? > > > > > > The only reason I bring this up is that I have had RSI from moving > > > between the mouse and keyboard for data entry too much. It got to > > > the point where by 10 AM I could not feel my little finger and half > > > of my lower arm becaude of it. > > > > > > As soon as I got one application that I used on a regular basis more > > > > keyboard friendly it helped. > > > > > > Just try to keep that in mind. I know I always do. I let users use > > > the mouse or enter with the keyboard. Their choice. > > > > > > Bryan Carbonnell > > > bryan_carbonnell at cbc.ca > > > > > > > > > >>> Lambert.Heenan at AIG.com 17-Mar-04 9:21:45 AM >>> > > > My solution to date entry is simple - I never let user's type in a > > > date. They always pick the date from a simple calendar form (though > > > I don't use > > > the MS Calendar control). Click on a date field and up pops the date > > > picker. > > > While this would not be suitable, perhaps, in applications where > > > massive > > > numbers of dates need to be entered, I find it works just fine for > me. > > > > > > Lambert > > > > > > -- > > > _______________________________________________ > > > AccessD mailing list > > > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > > > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > -- > > _______________________________________________ > > AccessD mailing list > > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From wdhindman at bellsouth.net Wed Mar 17 14:24:00 2004 From: wdhindman at bellsouth.net (William Hindman) Date: Wed, 17 Mar 2004 15:24:00 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] OT Wrist/Arm Pain - was Short Date Input Mask quest ion References: <8301C8A868251E4C8ECD3D4FFEA40F8A0811A98B@cpixchng-1.cpiqpc.net> Message-ID: <005a01c40c5d$ca74f190$6101a8c0@dejpolsys> ...I do the wrist exercises as well ...together with using a Logitech marble mouse and switching hands regularly during long sessions, I've not had any recurrence of severe, disabling CTS in my right wrist/arm/shoulder that three docs assured me the only cure for was surgery to cut the tendons in my wrist ...so much for getting second opinions :( William Hindman You know the world is upside down when Bill Clinton wins a Grammy and Janet Jackson is the subject of a government sex investigation. Argus Hamilton. ----- Original Message ----- From: To: Sent: Wednesday, March 17, 2004 2:30 PM Subject: RE: [AccessD] OT Wrist/Arm Pain - was Short Date Input Mask quest ion > I've switched my mouse to left handed at work as well. What has really > helped the most for me is a quick set of wrist excercises I do each morning. > Takes about 2 minutes to do. > > -----Original Message----- > From: Porter, Mark [mailto:MPorter at acsalaska.com] > Sent: Wednesday, March 17, 2004 1:09 PM > To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' > Subject: RE: [AccessD] Short Date Input Mask question > > > My solution for wrist/arm pain was to learn to use the mouse left-handed. > Back when I was working and consulting in the evenings, I would use the left > hand at work and right hand in the evenings. > > Now I just switch off. Nothing but occasional soreness now and again for > the last 4 years. > > Mark > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: Charlotte Foust [mailto:cfoust at infostatsystems.com] > > Sent: Wednesday, March 17, 2004 8:38 AM > > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > > Subject: RE: [AccessD] Short Date Input Mask question > > > > > > Hah! I got tendonitis in my thumb using a trackball. Had to > > go back to > > a mouse. That just shows that there is no single right answer. :-} > > > > Charlotte Foust > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: William Hindman [mailto:wdhindman at bellsouth.net] > > Sent: Wednesday, March 17, 2004 9:25 AM > > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > > Subject: Re: [AccessD] Short Date Input Mask question > > > > > > ...shortcut keys/number pad activate each calendar function > > ...and I've > > got every client converted to trackballs instead of mice ...I used to > > have severe CTS using a mouse but since moving to trackballs I've been > > symptom free :) > > > > William Hindman > > You know the world is upside down when Bill Clinton wins a Grammy and > > Janet Jackson is the subject of a government sex investigation. Argus > > Hamilton. > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: "Heenan, Lambert" > > To: "'Access Developers discussion and problem solving'" > > > > Sent: Wednesday, March 17, 2004 10:52 AM > > Subject: RE: [AccessD] Short Date Input Mask question > > > > > > > Bryan, > > > > > > Point taken. This was why I made the comment about mass > > data input. In > > point > > > of fact it is possible, though a bit clunky, to select a > > date with the > > > > > keyboard, and I should perhaps revisit the design on the > > form to make > > > it easier to do so. > > > > > > RSI is a serious problem, and I sympathize with your for having to > > > deal > > with > > > it. However it's not confined to mouse use, indeed I > > remember it first > > being > > > reported back in the 80's before mice very prevalent. In those days > > > the blame was laid at the door of the extreme ease with > > which computer > > keyboards > > > operated vs. manual typewriters. This allowed for very rapid > > > keystrokes, which was thought to be the root cause of RSI. > > > > > > I also see people who have bizarre ideas about how they should > > > position their keyboards and mice. In short there are lots > > of factors > > > involved, and at the end of the day the user has to figure out the > > > best way to use the d*mned machines. So, to reiterate, I think I'll > > > take the time to redesign > > my > > > date picker form to allow for better keyboard use of it. > > > > > > Lambert > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > > From: Bryan Carbonnell [SMTP:Bryan_Carbonnell at cbc.ca] > > > > Sent: Wednesday, March 17, 2004 9:52 AM > > > > To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com > > > > Subject: RE: [AccessD] Short Date Input Mask question > > > > > > > > Lambert, > > > > > > > > It may work fine for you, but does it work for your users? Do you > > > > force them to use the mouse to select the date, or can they do > > > > everything they need to from the keyboard? > > > > > > > > The only reason I bring this up is that I have had RSI > > from moving > > > > between the mouse and keyboard for data entry too much. It got to > > > > the point where by 10 AM I could not feel my little > > finger and half > > > > of my lower arm becaude of it. > > > > > > > > As soon as I got one application that I used on a regular > > basis more > > > > > > keyboard friendly it helped. > > > > > > > > Just try to keep that in mind. I know I always do. I let > > users use > > > > the mouse or enter with the keyboard. Their choice. > > > > > > > > Bryan Carbonnell > > > > bryan_carbonnell at cbc.ca > > > > > > > > > > > > >>> Lambert.Heenan at AIG.com 17-Mar-04 9:21:45 AM >>> > > > > My solution to date entry is simple - I never let user's > > type in a > > > > date. They always pick the date from a simple calendar > > form (though > > > > I don't use > > > > the MS Calendar control). Click on a date field and up > > pops the date > > > > picker. > > > > While this would not be suitable, perhaps, in applications where > > > > massive > > > > numbers of dates need to be entered, I find it works just fine for > > me. > > > > > > > > Lambert > > > > > > > > -- > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > > AccessD mailing list > > > > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > > > > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > -- > > > _______________________________________________ > > > AccessD mailing list > > > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > > > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > > > > > > -- > > _______________________________________________ > > AccessD mailing list > > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > -- > > _______________________________________________ > > AccessD mailing list > > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > > > > > **************************************************************************** > ******* > 17/3/2004 > This transmittal may contain confidential information intended solely for > the addressee. If you are not the intended recipient, you are hereby > notified that you have received this transmittal in error; any review, > dissemination, distribution or copying of this transmittal is strictly > prohibited. If you have received this communication in error, please notify > us immediately by reply or by telephone (collect at 907-564-1000) and ask to > speak with the message sender. In addition, please immediately delete this > message and all attachments. Thank you. ACS > > > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > From djkr at msn.com Wed Mar 17 14:33:03 2004 From: djkr at msn.com (DJK(John) Robinson) Date: Wed, 17 Mar 2004 20:33:03 -0000 Subject: [AccessD] Access 2003 Developer Edition? In-Reply-To: <012801c40c4f$cdf39960$6601a8c0@HAL9002> Message-ID: <000201c40c5f$0bd7b950$bf00a8c0@dabsight> Sorry, Rocky, I don't know, and can't check. Mine's the full product. John > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of > Rocky Smolin - Beach Access Software > Sent: 17 March 2004 18:44 > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access 2003 Developer Edition? > > > John: > > DO you know if I have to have the ODE97 installed to install > the Visual Studio Tools for the Microsoft Office System > upgrade? Or will it just ask for a CD key, maybe? > > Rocky > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "DJK(John) Robinson" > To: "'Access Developers discussion and problem solving'" > > Sent: Wednesday, March 17, 2004 10:18 AM > Subject: RE: [AccessD] Access 2003 Developer Edition? > > > > [Visual Studio Tools for the Microsoft Office System] > > > > Yes, there is a "tools upgrade" price: 60% off the Full price. > > Rocky's ODE97 will qualify him for it. See: > > http://msdn.microsoft.com/vstudio/howtobuy/officetools/ > > > > Access 2003 Developer Extensions, VB .NET Standard Edition, > and SQLS > > 2000 Developer Edition are included in VST4MSOS. As Marty > said, see: > > http://msdn.microsoft.com/vstudio/office/ > > > > > > The different *Office* 2003 editions are listed in: > > http://www.microsoft.com/office/editions/howtobuy/compare.mspx > > > > > > No personal experience yet of the Package Wizard, but I've > heard good > > reports of it. > > > > HTH > > John > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > > > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf > Of Charlotte > > > Foust > > > Sent: 17 March 2004 16:06 > > > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > > > Subject: RE: [AccessD] Access 2003 Developer Edition? > > > > > > > > > I don't think there is a "tools upgrade" price, Rocky. A > developer > > > license gives you the right to upgrade to Pro or Premium (I can't > > > keep the versions straight) in 2003. I never saw an > upgrade path to > > > the VSTO package anywhere I looked. Developer gives you > an upgrade > > > path to Visual Studio.Net, I believe, but the VSTO is a separate > > > package. > > > > > > Charlotte Foust > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > From: Rocky Smolin - Beach Access Software > > > [mailto:bchacc at san.rr.com] > > > Sent: Tuesday, March 16, 2004 8:58 PM > > > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > > > Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access 2003 Developer Edition? > > > > > > > > > Marty: > > > > > > A couple of weeks ago I was asking about deploying an > Access product > > > and trying to decide whether to go with Wise/Sagekey A2K > script with > > > an A2K mde. But I'd have to buy the A2K developer > edition. as well > > > as the Sagekey script. > > > > > > Now it appears, IIUC, that I could buy Office 2003 and the Office > > > Developer Tools (I've got A97 Developer license so I > could get the > > > Tools upgrade price, I think), and use the Developer > Tools packaging > > > wizard. > > > > > > >From the article it appears that the Packaging Wizard is pretty > > > >good. I > > > didn't detect any of the 'it really stinks' kind of review of > > > earlier Access packagers. > > > > > > Has you or anyone had any experience with it yet? Is it a > > > reasonable alternative? It probably would have a longer > life than > > > going with an A2K solution. One requirement I see is that the > > > target machine has to have W2K or WXP but that shouldn't > be too much > > > of a problem as time goes on. > > > > > > Regards, > > > > > > Rocky Smolin > > > Beach Access Software > > > http://www.e-z-mrp.com > > > > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > From: "MartyConnelly" > > > To: "Access Developers discussion and problem solving" > > > > > > Sent: Monday, March 15, 2004 11:30 AM > > > Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access 2003 Developer Edition? > > > > > > > > > > The Access 2003 runtime ships with any version of Office > > > 2003 that has > > > > Access 2003, the license to redistribute solutions with > the Access > > > > runtime is available exclusively through the Access Developer > > > > Extensions. The Access Developer Extensions include the > > > Package Wizard > > > > and other developer-oriented tools. The Package Wizard > creates a > > > > package based on an Access 2003 solution that users can install > > > > and uninstall with the Microsoft Windows Installer. You can > > > only acquire > > > > the Access Developer Extensions by buying the "Visual Studio > > > > Tools for the Microsoft Office System". > > > > http://msdn.microsoft.com/vstudio/office > > > > > > > > > > > > Packaging Access 2003 Solutions Rick Dobson > > > > > > > > > > > > > > http://msdn.microsoft.com/library/default.asp?url=/library/en- us/dnsmart03/h > tml/sa03j8.asp > > > > Michael Br?sdorf wrote: > > > > >Hello, > > > > > >I noticed that there seems to no more Office 2003 Developers > > >Edition. Is > it > > >still possible to create Run-Time applications with Access 2003? ` > > >Michael > > > > > > > > > > > > > -- > > Marty Connelly > > Victoria, B.C. > > Canada > > > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From HollisVJ at pgdp.usec.com Wed Mar 17 14:34:31 2004 From: HollisVJ at pgdp.usec.com (Hollis,Virginia) Date: Wed, 17 Mar 2004 14:34:31 -0600 Subject: [AccessD] Hyperlink Field Message-ID: <618EB4D6DDCDD3119B0A00508B6FD37A0CB0D34D@cntexchange.pgdp.usec.com> I added a field to the table & set it as type - hyperlink. On the form when I type in the address Microsoft.com it does not access the site. It does from the table, but not on the form. When I enter the field on the form it shows Microsoft.com#http://Microsoft.com#. How do you create a hyperlink field that works? Virginia From BBarabash at TappeConstruction.com Wed Mar 17 14:43:00 2004 From: BBarabash at TappeConstruction.com (Brett Barabash) Date: Wed, 17 Mar 2004 14:43:00 -0600 Subject: [AccessD] Short Date Input Mask question Message-ID: <426071E0B0A6D311B3C0006008B0AB23AFE41F@TAPPEEXCH01> >I do not believe that providing a pop up calendar is incorrect especially as >the users can tab into a date field and use a keyboard in any event. You missed my point. This is EXACTLY my sentiment. I said: >One of my biggest UI pet peeves is fields that disallow keyboard entry. My response was to someone who doesn't allow the user to tab into a date field and forces them to open up a calendar instead. In my opinion, this is a lazy way of avoiding date validation code. Have you ever used a program or website that forces you to use a calendar to enter your birthdate? (I have!) Personally, I find it a PITA to click a button to open a calendar, navigate to 1975, select May from a dropdown and then click on the 6. I'd like to type 05/06/1975, but some lazy programmer decided that it's way more elegant to launch a special screen to guide me through this complex process. OTOH, Outlook gives you several different options for date selection. To schedule a meeting for tomorrow, I can type... 03/18/2004 March 18, 2004 2004 Mar 18 ...or click on the box next to the field if I want to see a calendar. The developers put a lot of thought into this and because of its inherent flexibility it is easy to use by all types of users. I wish other pieces of software were as ambitious. -----Original Message----- From: J?rgen Welz [mailto:jwelz at hotmail.com] Sent: Wednesday, March 17, 2004 1:45 PM To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: RE: [AccessD] Short Date Input Mask question At one point a few years ago at this list I made a similar comment saying I provided a doubleclick pop up calendar and received a similar response. As a result, I once logged usage of: Double click pop up calendar vs Key down with form key preview on, Alt-d pops calendar if screen active control had a standard input mask property. I also considered a keyboard autokeys macro call a runcode that did the same thing but never did implement this version. Logging indicated that well over 98% of the data entry was by double click popup calendar. Granted these were very 'unsophisticated' users but the majority of their daily tasks involved interaction with the application. I do not believe that providing a pop up calendar is incorrect especially as the users can tab into a date field and use a keyboard in any event. IIRC, I had changed the display format and input mask dynamically in the past so that a user could key in 'mm/dd/yy' but the display format whenever the control didn't have focus was 'mmm/dd/yyyy'. I also added a label displaying the input format at each date entry textbox so there was never a question as to the required input sequence. I also believe that one of the reasons that my users like my pop up calendar is because it also displays appointments and blocked off dates for that user and other office staff (selected in multiselect list). It can be popped by keyboard or by doubleclick and can be navigated by mouse or cursor or page keys (for months) and you can tab into a year textbox. The months are each on a tab wtih Alt-character navigation and cursoring down past the end of one month moves to the next month (and up to previous). Finally, the Enter keys accepts the date, sets the source textbox and dismisses the calendar and the Escape key dismisses the calendar without setting or changing a date. I am a firm believer in always providing a keyboard navigation method, but that never precludes adding a mouse alternative that does exactly the same thing. A pop up calendar can be entirely keyboard controlled at a cost of a few extra keystrokes for the rich graphical information that it can present. And just because it's there doesn't mean a user ever has to use it. It just turns out that my experience is that they will even though I have a prejudice for preferring to use the keyboard wherever possible. I suspect this prejudice afflicts most programmers. If only browers were more keyboard friendly. Ciao J?rgen Welz Edmonton, Alberta jwelz at hotmail.com >From: Brett Barabash > >I bet the data entry people love you! > >It may "work for you", but I'll bet that there are some users out there >that >feel otherwise. One of my biggest UI pet peeves is fields that disallow >keyboard entry. One record or 1000 records, it's still annoying to move >your hand off of the home row of your keyboard and click around to select a >date. > > >-----Original Message----- >From: Heenan, Lambert [mailto:Lambert.Heenan at aig.com] >Sent: Wednesday, March 17, 2004 8:22 AM >To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' >Subject: RE: [AccessD] Short Date Input Mask question > > >My solution to date entry is simple - I never let user's type in a date. >They always pick the date from a simple calendar form (though I don't use >the MS Calendar control). Click on a date field and up pops the date >picker. >While this would not be suitable, perhaps, in applications where massive >numbers of dates need to be entered, I find it works just fine for me. > >Lambert > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: Arthur Fuller [SMTP:artful at rogers.com] > > Sent: Tuesday, March 16, 2004 5:47 PM > > To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' > > Subject: [AccessD] Short Date Input Mask question > > > > The standard short date input mask (99/99/0000;0;_) has a shortcoming > > that I hate: you have to type 04/04/04 to get April 4th 2004. The year > > handling is nice but the month and day suck. The mask won't let you type > > 4/4/04. Is there an alternative mask that will respond intelligently to > > such input? Or should I instead just remove all the input masks from all > > the date fields? > > > > TIA, > > Arthur _________________________________________________________________ -------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- The information in this email may contain confidential information that is legally privileged. The information is only for the use of the intended recipient(s) named above. If you are not the intended recipient(s), you are hereby notified that any disclosure, copying, distribution, or the taking of any action in regard to the content of this fax is strictly prohibited. If transmission is incorrect, unclear, or incomplete, please notify the sender immediately. The authorized recipient(s) of this information is/are prohibited from disclosing this information to any other party and is/are required to destroy the information after its stated need has been fulfilled. Any views expressed in this message are those of the individual sender, except where the sender specifies and with authority, states them to be the views of Tappe Construction Co. This footer also confirms that this email message has been scanned for the presence of computer viruses.Scanning of this message and addition of this footer is performed by SurfControl E-mail Filter software in conjunction with virus detection software. From Bryan_Carbonnell at cbc.ca Wed Mar 17 14:44:51 2004 From: Bryan_Carbonnell at cbc.ca (Bryan Carbonnell) Date: Wed, 17 Mar 2004 15:44:51 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Hyperlink Field Message-ID: Set the textbox's IsHyperlink property to true. Bryan Carbonnell bryan_carbonnell at cbc.ca >>> HollisVJ at pgdp.usec.com 17-Mar-04 3:34:31 PM >>> I added a field to the table & set it as type - hyperlink. On the form when I type in the address Microsoft.com it does not access the site. It does from the table, but not on the form. When I enter the field on the form it shows Microsoft.com#http://Microsoft.com#. How do you create a hyperlink field that works? Virginia From HollisVJ at pgdp.usec.com Wed Mar 17 14:53:18 2004 From: HollisVJ at pgdp.usec.com (Hollis,Virginia) Date: Wed, 17 Mar 2004 14:53:18 -0600 Subject: [AccessD] Hyperlink Field Message-ID: <618EB4D6DDCDD3119B0A00508B6FD37A0CB0D34F@cntexchange.pgdp.usec.com> Thanks, I never would have found that! Va. -----Original Message----- From: Bryan Carbonnell [mailto:Bryan_Carbonnell at cbc.ca] Sent: Wednesday, March 17, 2004 2:45 PM To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: Re: [AccessD] Hyperlink Field Set the textbox's IsHyperlink property to true. Bryan Carbonnell bryan_carbonnell at cbc.ca >>> HollisVJ at pgdp.usec.com 17-Mar-04 3:34:31 PM >>> I added a field to the table & set it as type - hyperlink. On the form when I type in the address Microsoft.com it does not access the site. It does from the table, but not on the form. When I enter the field on the form it shows Microsoft.com#http://Microsoft.com#. How do you create a hyperlink field that works? Virginia -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com Wed Mar 17 14:57:18 2004 From: jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com (John W. Colby) Date: Wed, 17 Mar 2004 15:57:18 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Re: Short Date Input Mask question In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.2.20040317083331.029dfc30@pop3.highstream.net> Message-ID: Thanks for that. Sometimes it feels a little lonely out here. John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Robert L. Stewart Sent: Wednesday, March 17, 2004 10:01 AM To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: [AccessD] Re: Short Date Input Mask question John, Ignore those that do not benefit or want to learn. Personally, I have read and re-read your posts, which I have compiled into a single document that I keep adding to. As I learn more, I will add my notes to it. As to a framework, they are great. And, you do have the right idea. With all the so called developers that claim Access as a development tool, we need to distinguish ourselves from them with as wide a gap as possible. Extending the capabilities of Access is just one of the ways, we as PROFESSIONAL developers can do this. A good example of this is the C programmers that a company here in Houston hired to do Access development. A friend of mine spent the last 3+ months debugging what they had written. An example of the poor programming technique (no matter the language) was the calling of a function to see what the country they were operating in was between 20 and 30 times within a form instead of setting a variable on open of the program. The country did not change after opening the program. :-) Yet, they were offended by the changes that were suggested by the real Access professional, because of their superior programming knowledge since they were C programmers. And, one of their other problems was that she was a woman. They were not from this country. Robert At 01:21 AM 3/17/2004 -0600, you wrote: >Date: Wed, 17 Mar 2004 10:37:30 +1030 >From: "Haslett, Andrew" >Subject: RE: [AccessD] Short Date Input Mask question >To: "'Access Developers discussion and problem solving'" > >Message-ID: > >Content-Type: text/plain > >(PS. I personally have found it quite useful and its been a handy refresher >in terms of withevents, class design etc. ) -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From HollisVJ at pgdp.usec.com Wed Mar 17 14:58:40 2004 From: HollisVJ at pgdp.usec.com (Hollis,Virginia) Date: Wed, 17 Mar 2004 14:58:40 -0600 Subject: [AccessD] Hyperlink Field Message-ID: <618EB4D6DDCDD3119B0A00508B6FD37A0CB0D350@cntexchange.pgdp.usec.com> Spoke too soon... I set it to IsHyperlink, but it still does not work. When I click the field I still get all the # signs & the link does not work. -----Original Message----- From: Bryan Carbonnell [mailto:Bryan_Carbonnell at cbc.ca] Sent: Wednesday, March 17, 2004 2:45 PM To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: Re: [AccessD] Hyperlink Field Set the textbox's IsHyperlink property to true. Bryan Carbonnell bryan_carbonnell at cbc.ca >>> HollisVJ at pgdp.usec.com 17-Mar-04 3:34:31 PM >>> I added a field to the table & set it as type - hyperlink. On the form when I type in the address Microsoft.com it does not access the site. It does from the table, but not on the form. When I enter the field on the form it shows Microsoft.com#http://Microsoft.com#. How do you create a hyperlink field that works? Virginia -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com Wed Mar 17 15:00:35 2004 From: jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com (John W. Colby) Date: Wed, 17 Mar 2004 16:00:35 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Short Date Input Mask question In-Reply-To: <2F8793082E00D4119A1700B0D0216BF802227983@main2.marlow.com> Message-ID: LOL. I really don't expect YOU to read them! John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of DWUTKA at marlow.com Sent: Wednesday, March 17, 2004 2:40 PM To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: RE: [AccessD] Short Date Input Mask question If it makes you feel any better JC, I don't read the posts you take hours writing.... Just kidding. I do read most of them. Too busy to read everything lately... Drew -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of John W. Colby Sent: Tuesday, March 16, 2004 4:35 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] Short Date Input Mask question Stuart, that is a silly thing to say, and exactly the reason that I can't help but wonder whether anyone at all reads the posts I spend hours writing and writing example code for. Of course "Access does that just fine by itself if you set the format property to "d mmm yyyyy". And now, WE (you and I) have an application where our respective clients say "I hate that format". I don't know what You do but I go into my sysvar table and change a SysVar. The next time the app opens all date fields are formatted however the client wants. What exactly DO you do? To a man with a search and replace program.... Shall I just abandon my attempts to educate this list about what frameworks can do? Seems a shame, but it sure appears I've wasted about 30 hours so far. John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Stuart McLachlan Sent: Tuesday, March 16, 2004 5:10 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problemsolving Subject: RE: [AccessD] Short Date Input Mask question On 16 Mar 2004 at 15:40, John W. Colby wrote: > A great case for a framework. Define the various formats you use in your > text boxes and then tell the framework to figure out that it's a date and > apply a format. > To a man with a hammer....... :-) Access does that just fine by itself if you set the format property to "d mmm yyyyy" or whatever you want in the particular situation. -- Lexacorp Ltd http://www.lexacorp.com.pg Information Technology Consultancy, Software Development,System Support. -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From DWUTKA at marlow.com Wed Mar 17 15:16:36 2004 From: DWUTKA at marlow.com (DWUTKA at marlow.com) Date: Wed, 17 Mar 2004 15:16:36 -0600 Subject: [AccessD] Short Date Input Mask question Message-ID: <2F8793082E00D4119A1700B0D0216BF802227989@main2.marlow.com> No, I do skim almost all of them. And the stuff I find interesting, I read all the way through. Intelligent postings are always a plus...no matter who writes them! Drew -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of John W. Colby Sent: Wednesday, March 17, 2004 3:01 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] Short Date Input Mask question LOL. I really don't expect YOU to read them! John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of DWUTKA at marlow.com Sent: Wednesday, March 17, 2004 2:40 PM To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: RE: [AccessD] Short Date Input Mask question If it makes you feel any better JC, I don't read the posts you take hours writing.... Just kidding. I do read most of them. Too busy to read everything lately... Drew -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of John W. Colby Sent: Tuesday, March 16, 2004 4:35 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] Short Date Input Mask question Stuart, that is a silly thing to say, and exactly the reason that I can't help but wonder whether anyone at all reads the posts I spend hours writing and writing example code for. Of course "Access does that just fine by itself if you set the format property to "d mmm yyyyy". And now, WE (you and I) have an application where our respective clients say "I hate that format". I don't know what You do but I go into my sysvar table and change a SysVar. The next time the app opens all date fields are formatted however the client wants. What exactly DO you do? To a man with a search and replace program.... Shall I just abandon my attempts to educate this list about what frameworks can do? Seems a shame, but it sure appears I've wasted about 30 hours so far. John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Stuart McLachlan Sent: Tuesday, March 16, 2004 5:10 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problemsolving Subject: RE: [AccessD] Short Date Input Mask question On 16 Mar 2004 at 15:40, John W. Colby wrote: > A great case for a framework. Define the various formats you use in your > text boxes and then tell the framework to figure out that it's a date and > apply a format. > To a man with a hammer....... :-) Access does that just fine by itself if you set the format property to "d mmm yyyyy" or whatever you want in the particular situation. -- Lexacorp Ltd http://www.lexacorp.com.pg Information Technology Consultancy, Software Development,System Support. -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From wdhindman at bellsouth.net Wed Mar 17 15:44:47 2004 From: wdhindman at bellsouth.net (William Hindman) Date: Wed, 17 Mar 2004 16:44:47 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Short Date Input Mask question References: <426071E0B0A6D311B3C0006008B0AB23AFE41F@TAPPEEXCH01> Message-ID: <000401c40c69$11a32360$6101a8c0@dejpolsys> ...yes and no ...convenient but a suck for bad data entry ime ...one types in 6/1/2004 ...one types in 1/6/2004 ...one types in 1 jun 04 and tabs on down the line, etc ...lecture me all day on dumb users but I don't have the option of firing them ...so I pop up a small calendar every time ...if the user enters directly in the text box, the calendar moves to the date entered to provide visual feedback ...if he/she selects from the calendar it fills the text box ...either way they can mouse it or keyboard it ...so no matter whether the user is military trained (euro dating) or public school trained (US dating you hope) or wants to type in the alpha month, I get him there somehow so that the right date gets entered ...nothings foolproof but date entry errors have gone to zero ...which is worth the cost of the popup to me and my clients. ...as a side I tried this approach using the native calendar control and could never make its speed acceptable ...after a lot of experimentation I standardized on an older version of Drew's all vba code calendar (with some mods) which is quite fast for my needs ...one of these days I might get around to using his newest version but I've not found a reason to as yet :) William Hindman You know the world is upside down when Bill Clinton wins a Grammy and Janet Jackson is the subject of a government sex investigation. Argus Hamilton. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Brett Barabash" To: "'Access Developers discussion and problem solving'" Sent: Wednesday, March 17, 2004 3:43 PM Subject: RE: [AccessD] Short Date Input Mask question > >I do not believe that providing a pop up calendar is incorrect especially > as > >the users can tab into a date field and use a keyboard in any event. > > You missed my point. This is EXACTLY my sentiment. > > I said: > >One of my biggest UI pet peeves is fields that disallow keyboard entry. > > My response was to someone who doesn't allow the user to tab into a date > field and forces them to open up a calendar instead. In my opinion, this is > a lazy way of avoiding date validation code. > > Have you ever used a program or website that forces you to use a calendar to > enter your birthdate? (I have!) Personally, I find it a PITA to click a > button to open a calendar, navigate to 1975, select May from a dropdown and > then click on the 6. I'd like to type 05/06/1975, but some lazy programmer > decided that it's way more elegant to launch a special screen to guide me > through this complex process. > > OTOH, Outlook gives you several different options for date selection. To > schedule a meeting for tomorrow, I can type... > 03/18/2004 > March 18, 2004 > 2004 Mar 18 > ...or click on the box next to the field if I want to see a calendar. > > The developers put a lot of thought into this and because of its inherent > flexibility it is easy to use by all types of users. I wish other pieces of > software were as ambitious. > > > -----Original Message----- > From: J?rgen Welz [mailto:jwelz at hotmail.com] > Sent: Wednesday, March 17, 2004 1:45 PM > To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com > Subject: RE: [AccessD] Short Date Input Mask question > > At one point a few years ago at this list I made a similar comment saying I > provided a doubleclick pop up calendar and received a similar response. As > a result, I once logged usage of: > > Double click pop up calendar > vs > Key down with form key preview on, Alt-d pops calendar if screen active > control had a standard input mask property. > > I also considered a keyboard autokeys macro call a runcode that did the same > > thing but never did implement this version. > > Logging indicated that well over 98% of the data entry was by double click > popup calendar. Granted these were very 'unsophisticated' users but the > majority of their daily tasks involved interaction with the application. > > I do not believe that providing a pop up calendar is incorrect especially as > > the users can tab into a date field and use a keyboard in any event. IIRC, > I had changed the display format and input mask dynamically in the past so > that a user could key in 'mm/dd/yy' but the display format whenever the > control didn't have focus was 'mmm/dd/yyyy'. I also added a label > displaying the input format at each date entry textbox so there was never a > question as to the required input sequence. > > I also believe that one of the reasons that my users like my pop up calendar > > is because it also displays appointments and blocked off dates for that user > > and other office staff (selected in multiselect list). It can be popped by > keyboard or by doubleclick and can be navigated by mouse or cursor or page > keys (for months) and you can tab into a year textbox. The months are each > on a tab wtih Alt-character navigation and cursoring down past the end of > one month moves to the next month (and up to previous). Finally, the Enter > keys accepts the date, sets the source textbox and dismisses the calendar > and the Escape key dismisses the calendar without setting or changing a > date. > > I am a firm believer in always providing a keyboard navigation method, but > that never precludes adding a mouse alternative that does exactly the same > thing. A pop up calendar can be entirely keyboard controlled at a cost of a > > few extra keystrokes for the rich graphical information that it can present. > > And just because it's there doesn't mean a user ever has to use it. It > just turns out that my experience is that they will even though I have a > prejudice for preferring to use the keyboard wherever possible. I suspect > this prejudice afflicts most programmers. > > If only browers were more keyboard friendly. > > > Ciao > J?rgen Welz > Edmonton, Alberta > jwelz at hotmail.com > > > > > > >From: Brett Barabash > > > >I bet the data entry people love you! > > > >It may "work for you", but I'll bet that there are some users out there > >that > >feel otherwise. One of my biggest UI pet peeves is fields that disallow > >keyboard entry. One record or 1000 records, it's still annoying to move > >your hand off of the home row of your keyboard and click around to select a > >date. > > > > > >-----Original Message----- > >From: Heenan, Lambert [mailto:Lambert.Heenan at aig.com] > >Sent: Wednesday, March 17, 2004 8:22 AM > >To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' > >Subject: RE: [AccessD] Short Date Input Mask question > > > > > >My solution to date entry is simple - I never let user's type in a date. > >They always pick the date from a simple calendar form (though I don't use > >the MS Calendar control). Click on a date field and up pops the date > >picker. > >While this would not be suitable, perhaps, in applications where massive > >numbers of dates need to be entered, I find it works just fine for me. > > > >Lambert > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > From: Arthur Fuller [SMTP:artful at rogers.com] > > > Sent: Tuesday, March 16, 2004 5:47 PM > > > To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' > > > Subject: [AccessD] Short Date Input Mask question > > > > > > The standard short date input mask (99/99/0000;0;_) has a shortcoming > > > that I hate: you have to type 04/04/04 to get April 4th 2004. The year > > > handling is nice but the month and day suck. The mask won't let you type > > > 4/4/04. Is there an alternative mask that will respond intelligently to > > > such input? Or should I instead just remove all the input masks from all > > > the date fields? > > > > > > TIA, > > > Arthur > > _________________________________________________________________ > > -------------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------------------ > The information in this email may contain confidential information that > is legally privileged. The information is only for the use of the intended > recipient(s) named above. If you are not the intended recipient(s), you > are hereby notified that any disclosure, copying, distribution, or the taking > of any action in regard to the content of this fax is strictly prohibited. If > transmission is incorrect, unclear, or incomplete, please notify the sender > immediately. The authorized recipient(s) of this information is/are prohibited > from disclosing this information to any other party and is/are required to > destroy the information after its stated need has been fulfilled. > > Any views expressed in this message are those of the individual > sender, except where the sender specifies and with authority, > states them to be the views of Tappe Construction Co. > > This footer also confirms that this email message has been scanned > for the presence of computer viruses.Scanning of this message and > addition of this footer is performed by SurfControl E-mail Filter software > in conjunction with virus detection software. > > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From wdhindman at bellsouth.net Wed Mar 17 15:46:25 2004 From: wdhindman at bellsouth.net (William Hindman) Date: Wed, 17 Mar 2004 16:46:25 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Re: Short Date Input Mask question References: Message-ID: <000901c40c69$4c148890$6101a8c0@dejpolsys> ...yeah, yeah, yeah ...how many times has Mary told you to shower more often? ...sheesh!!!! :))))) William Hindman You know the world is upside down when Bill Clinton wins a Grammy and Janet Jackson is the subject of a government sex investigation. Argus Hamilton. ----- Original Message ----- From: "John W. Colby" To: "Access Developers discussion and problem solving" Sent: Wednesday, March 17, 2004 3:57 PM Subject: RE: [AccessD] Re: Short Date Input Mask question > Thanks for that. Sometimes it feels a little lonely out here. > > John W. Colby > www.ColbyConsulting.com From rl_stewart at highstream.net Wed Mar 17 15:53:48 2004 From: rl_stewart at highstream.net (Robert L. Stewart) Date: Wed, 17 Mar 2004 15:53:48 -0600 Subject: [AccessD] Re: Hyperlink Field In-Reply-To: <200403172144.i2HLieM21591@databaseadvisors.com> Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20040317155246.02a4fe98@pop3.highstream.net> Virginia, The trick is that a label has the hyperlink property and not a text box. Use a label and set the properties for it in code. Robert At 03:44 PM 3/17/2004 -0600, you wrote: >Date: Wed, 17 Mar 2004 14:34:31 -0600 >From: "Hollis,Virginia" >Subject: [AccessD] Hyperlink Field >To: "'accessd at databaseadvisors.com'" >Message-ID: > <618EB4D6DDCDD3119B0A00508B6FD37A0CB0D34D at cntexchange.pgdp.usec.com> >Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 > >I added a field to the table & set it as type - hyperlink. On the form when >I type in the address Microsoft.com it does not access the site. It does >from the table, but not on the form. When I enter the field on the form it >shows Microsoft.com#http://Microsoft.com#. > >How do you create a hyperlink field that works? > >Virginia From HollisVJ at pgdp.usec.com Wed Mar 17 16:01:00 2004 From: HollisVJ at pgdp.usec.com (Hollis,Virginia) Date: Wed, 17 Mar 2004 16:01:00 -0600 Subject: [AccessD] RE: Hyperlink Field Message-ID: <618EB4D6DDCDD3119B0A00508B6FD37A0CB0D351@cntexchange.pgdp.usec.com> Yes, but how would you store the contents of a label in a field? I want to store the web site addresses with the vendors. Virginia -----Original Message----- From: Robert L. Stewart [mailto:rl_stewart at highstream.net] Sent: Wednesday, March 17, 2004 3:54 PM To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Cc: HollisVJ at pgdp.usec.com Subject: Re: Hyperlink Field Virginia, The trick is that a label has the hyperlink property and not a text box. Use a label and set the properties for it in code. Robert At 03:44 PM 3/17/2004 -0600, you wrote: >Date: Wed, 17 Mar 2004 14:34:31 -0600 >From: "Hollis,Virginia" >Subject: [AccessD] Hyperlink Field >To: "'accessd at databaseadvisors.com'" >Message-ID: > <618EB4D6DDCDD3119B0A00508B6FD37A0CB0D34D at cntexchange.pgdp.usec.com> >Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 > >I added a field to the table & set it as type - hyperlink. On the form when >I type in the address Microsoft.com it does not access the site. It does >from the table, but not on the form. When I enter the field on the form it >shows Microsoft.com#http://Microsoft.com#. > >How do you create a hyperlink field that works? > >Virginia From martyconnelly at shaw.ca Wed Mar 17 15:48:51 2004 From: martyconnelly at shaw.ca (MartyConnelly) Date: Wed, 17 Mar 2004 13:48:51 -0800 Subject: AW: [AccessD] Slightly OT: Access/Office 2003 with Multilingual UserPack on Terminal Server/Citrix Metaframe References: Message-ID: <4058C7C3.1080603@shaw.ca> Ah, you want the MUI MultiLingual User Interface for the Win2000+ OS and Office. I was thinking of the archaic language packs. http://www.microsoft.com/office/editions/prodinfo/language/default.mspx http://www.microsoft.com/globaldev/DrIntl/faqs/MUIFaq.mspx http://www.microsoft.com/office/ork/2003/four/default.htm A lot of this is covered in the ORK Office Resource Kit. One other problem The Windows XP/2000 MUI maybe sold only through Volume Licensing programs. I don't know if you can buy retail. If you can set multi languages through Windows Terminal Services should be able to do it with Citrix http://www.microsoft.com/globaldev/DrIntl/faqs/MUIFaq.mspx#MUIques3 Shared workstations: MUI is controlled at the user level, and thus allows for customer scenarios whereby a single workstation is shared by multiple part-time or roaming employees. This also applies to Terminal Services scenario where each user can get a different user interface language depending on their preference. On a citrix server the client program can toggle keyboard language selection via Alt-Shift key Michael Br?sdorf wrote: >But that will change only the keyboard behaviour!? With the multilingual >thingy you can change the language of the user interface (menu's, error >messages etc.). From what I've heard so far switching to another language >acutally replaced a couple of DLL's. > >Michael > >-----Urspr?ngliche Nachricht----- >Von: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com >[mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]Im Auftrag von >MartyConnelly >Gesendet: Mittwoch, 17. M?rz 2004 20:14 >An: Access Developers discussion and problem solving >Betreff: Re: [AccessD] Slightly OT: Access/Office 2003 with Multilingual >UserPack on Terminal Server/Citrix Metaframe > > >I do French or English input on the same Access 97 form by bringing up >the windows xp language bar and testing or forcing a language switch on >the keyboard depending on which textbox is active. This probably not the >only way to do it. I am not sure how this would work via Citrix. > > > >Michael Br?sdorf wrote: > > > >>Dear group, >> >>one of my customers thinks it would be a good idea to install Office 2003 >>along with a Multilingual User Pack on a Citrix Metaframe server to have >>localized (that is English and German) user interfaces for all Office >>applications. Unfortunately it is pretty hard to find any related info. >> >> >Does > > >>anyone have experience with such a configuration? >> >>TIA, >> >>Michael >> >> >> >> >> > >-- >Marty Connelly >Victoria, B.C. >Canada > > > >-- >_______________________________________________ >AccessD mailing list >AccessD at databaseadvisors.com >http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd >Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > -- Marty Connelly Victoria, B.C. Canada From stuart at lexacorp.com.pg Wed Mar 17 16:12:52 2004 From: stuart at lexacorp.com.pg (Stuart McLachlan) Date: Thu, 18 Mar 2004 08:12:52 +1000 Subject: [AccessD] Re: Hyperlink Field In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.2.20040317155246.02a4fe98@pop3.highstream.net> References: <200403172144.i2HLieM21591@databaseadvisors.com> Message-ID: <40595A04.4146.19A0E9@localhost> On 17 Mar 2004 at 15:53, Robert L. Stewart wrote: > Virginia, > > The trick is that a label has the hyperlink > property and not a text box. Use a label > and set the properties for it in code. > > Not in any version of Access I've ever seen. The "Is hyperlink" property is the last one in the "Format" tab of the textbox "Properties" dialog. -- Lexacorp Ltd http://www.lexacorp.com.pg Information Technology Consultancy, Software Development,System Support. From martyconnelly at shaw.ca Wed Mar 17 16:11:30 2004 From: martyconnelly at shaw.ca (MartyConnelly) Date: Wed, 17 Mar 2004 14:11:30 -0800 Subject: [AccessD] Re: [Private] Framework Discussion - Dependent Obje cts References: <2F8793082E00D4119A1700B0D0216BF802227985@main2.marlow.com> Message-ID: <4058CD12.9000000@shaw.ca> You can get the Student Edition or Working Model of VB6 (no .exe creation or help files) included with "Sam's Teach Yourself Visual Basic in 24 hours". by Greg Perry ISBN # 0672315335 Only $14 US. DWUTKA at marlow.com wrote: >Gustav, Gustav, Gustav....you need to invest in VB 6. You could probably >get it dirt cheap on eBay, and with your skills, you'll pick it up in a >heart beat. > >A lot of people peg me as a VBer, simply because I use VB a lot. However, >I'm all for the right tool for the right job. VB is just another tool. >Now, if I could somehow merge the advantages of VB, with the advantages in >Access, I would be a VERY happy camper! > >Drew > >-----Original Message----- >From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com >[mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Gustav Brock >Sent: Wednesday, March 17, 2004 3:15 AM >To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving >Subject: Re: [AccessD] Re: [Private] Framework Discussion - Dependent >Obje cts > > >Hi Drew > >Yes, that makes sense to me, though I don't have any tools to program >dlls. I have some very general and well proven functions which I >simply keep collected in some modules which I copy-paste into a new >project as needed - not very fancy, I know, but it works. > >/gustav > > > >>I'm in the same situation as you. I find that building a 'framework' isn't >>worth the effort, because I have to develop very diverse GUI's. It's not >> >> >a > > >>matter of re-using features, it's a matter of building specific features >> >> >to > > >>handle the task at hand. >> >> > > > >>At my full time job, however, I have found that one of the best practices >> >> >I > > >>can stick too, is to develop applications as 'stand-alone' objects, yet >>leave room for interaction. So if I develop a library application for our >>Drafting department, and later I develop a modeling package for the >>engineers, if I need access to the drafting library, I can just >> >> >'reference' > > >>the drafting department's .dll's. Makes life a lot easier. To me, that's >>what I call a framework. It's not a generic thing from a functionality >>standpoint, but more of a generic thing from a usability standpoint. >> >> > > > >>Make sense? >> >> > > > -- Marty Connelly Victoria, B.C. Canada From stuart at lexacorp.com.pg Wed Mar 17 16:23:17 2004 From: stuart at lexacorp.com.pg (Stuart McLachlan) Date: Thu, 18 Mar 2004 08:23:17 +1000 Subject: [AccessD] Hyperlink Field In-Reply-To: <618EB4D6DDCDD3119B0A00508B6FD37A0CB0D350@cntexchange.pgdp.usec.com> Message-ID: <40595C75.7808.232A42@localhost> On 17 Mar 2004 at 14:58, Hollis,Virginia wrote: > Spoke too soon... > > I set it to IsHyperlink, but it still does not work. When I click the field > I still get all the # signs & the link does not work. > You are single clicking, not double clickling aren't you? When you right click on the textbox, can you access the Hyperlink menu or is it "greyed out" -- Lexacorp Ltd http://www.lexacorp.com.pg Information Technology Consultancy, Software Development,System Support. From stuart at lexacorp.com.pg Wed Mar 17 16:30:34 2004 From: stuart at lexacorp.com.pg (Stuart McLachlan) Date: Thu, 18 Mar 2004 08:30:34 +1000 Subject: [AccessD] Re: [Private] Framework Discussion - Dependent Obje cts In-Reply-To: <2F8793082E00D4119A1700B0D0216BF802227985@main2.marlow.com> Message-ID: <40595E2A.32151.29D54A@localhost> On 17 Mar 2004 at 13:45, DWUTKA at marlow.com wrote: > Gustav, Gustav, Gustav....you need to invest in VB 6. You could probably > get it dirt cheap on eBay, and with your skills, you'll pick it up in a > heart beat. > Or, dare I say it, PowerBasic. Great for producing DLLs and anyone who is good with VB /VBA will pick it up quickly. The best $199 I ever spent on software. -- Lexacorp Ltd http://www.lexacorp.com.pg Information Technology Consultancy, Software Development,System Support. From d.dick at uws.edu.au Wed Mar 17 16:33:27 2004 From: d.dick at uws.edu.au (Darren DICK) Date: Thu, 18 Mar 2004 09:33:27 +1100 Subject: [AccessD] RE: Hyperlink Field References: <618EB4D6DDCDD3119B0A00508B6FD37A0CB0D351@cntexchange.pgdp.usec.com> Message-ID: <00ce01c40c6f$ddf8f4c0$48619a89@DDICK> Hi Virginia Demo Sent off list Any and all me toos to be off list to d.dick at uws.edu.au (Any replies on list will be ignored) Have a great day y'all Darren ----- Original Message ----- From: "Hollis,Virginia" To: "'Robert L. Stewart'" ; Sent: Thursday, March 18, 2004 9:01 AM Subject: [AccessD] RE: Hyperlink Field > Yes, but how would you store the contents of a label in a field? I want to > store the web site addresses with the vendors. > > Virginia > > -----Original Message----- > From: Robert L. Stewart [mailto:rl_stewart at highstream.net] > Sent: Wednesday, March 17, 2004 3:54 PM > To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com > Cc: HollisVJ at pgdp.usec.com > Subject: Re: Hyperlink Field > > > Virginia, > > The trick is that a label has the hyperlink > property and not a text box. Use a label > and set the properties for it in code. > > Robert > > At 03:44 PM 3/17/2004 -0600, you wrote: > >Date: Wed, 17 Mar 2004 14:34:31 -0600 > >From: "Hollis,Virginia" > >Subject: [AccessD] Hyperlink Field > >To: "'accessd at databaseadvisors.com'" > >Message-ID: > > > <618EB4D6DDCDD3119B0A00508B6FD37A0CB0D34D at cntexchange.pgdp.usec.com> > >Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 > > > >I added a field to the table & set it as type - hyperlink. On the form when > >I type in the address Microsoft.com it does not access the site. It does > >from the table, but not on the form. When I enter the field on the form it > >shows Microsoft.com#http://Microsoft.com#. > > > >How do you create a hyperlink field that works? > > > >Virginia > > > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From ebarro at afsweb.com Wed Mar 17 16:37:20 2004 From: ebarro at afsweb.com (Eric Barro) Date: Wed, 17 Mar 2004 14:37:20 -0800 Subject: [AccessD] connecting to sql server using access 2000 adp In-Reply-To: <4058CD12.9000000@shaw.ca> Message-ID: I need help with connecting to a SQL server 2000 db using an ADP (Access 2000). I know how to connect via the regular port (1433). Where do you change the value if the server uses a different port like 1049? I am assuming that Access ADPs connect and expect to find the specified SQL server at port 1433. Any help or links will be appreciated. --- Eric Barro Senior Systems Analyst Advanced Field Services (208) 772-7060 http://www.afsweb.com --- Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.593 / Virus Database: 376 - Release Date: 2/20/2004 From jwelz at hotmail.com Wed Mar 17 16:45:49 2004 From: jwelz at hotmail.com (Jürgen Welz) Date: Wed, 17 Mar 2004 15:45:49 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] RE: Hyperlink Field Message-ID: Using Access 2000, I use Hyperlink datatype in the table and just a regular textbox in a form. No need to set the IsHyperlink property. Cursor is a hand when the mouse goes over the textbox and it launches a browser instance pointed at the URL when clicked once. Text appears as plain text in the textbox. If I store: ezonemag.com in the table, it appears as a hyperlink in the table but looks like plain text in the textbox. Tab into the field and hit F2 (edit) and it changes from hyperlink to clickable text until the focus is off the text box again when it reverts to acting like a hyperlink but looking like text. Text shown in the text box for the example is: ezonemag.com#http://www.ezonemag.com# I've never tried setting the IsHyperlink property True before today and the difference on my system (still running Win 95 on my current work machine, 64 meg peer 'server') is that it displays as a hyperlink in the textbox. Hitting the edit shows the same text, but underlined like a hyperlink, as though the IsHyperlink property was false. Ciao J?rgen Welz Edmonton, Alberta jwelz at hotmail.com _________________________________________________________________ MSN Premium with Virus Guard and Firewall* from McAfee? Security : 2 months FREE* http://join.msn.com/?pgmarket=en-ca&page=byoa/prem&xAPID=1994&DI=1034&SU=http://hotmail.com/enca&HL=Market_MSNIS_Taglines From thevigil at kabelfoon.nl Wed Mar 17 17:02:29 2004 From: thevigil at kabelfoon.nl (Bert-Jan Brinkhuis) Date: Thu, 18 Mar 2004 00:02:29 +0100 Subject: [AccessD] Strange results with simple calculation on a form Message-ID: <000f01c40c73$f596f560$214e2d3e@jester> Hi all, i was forced to unsubscribe a while ago because i couldn't keep up with you and all the messages... ;-) But today a strange thing happened i had to ask you all about. I didn't do a big search on the internet, but searched the accessd archives and didn't find it. It maybe is a well known problem, but here it goes..... I have an unbound form where users will type amounts. All the txtboxes' format are set to "standard" and the decimal places is set to 2. And i check on the before_update event of these txtboxes if there are more then 2 decimals, if so, cancel = true. There is an calculated total control (txtTotal) wich has a controlsource like =[txtbox1]+[txtbox2] and so on (in total 12 txtboxes) These txtboxes are used to 'split up' the amount in another txtbox. (txtAmount) Before saving i check if txtAmount = txtTotal. When no decimals are used there is no problem, if there are only used decimals in 1 txtbox there is no problem. But if there are used decimals in more txtboxes access will tell me the values are not the same..... although the same values are shown... it turns out there is a difference of: 0.00000000000000710542735!!!!!! (debug.print told me this!) When i use the same 'function' in VBA it works fine with the same values....???? So it is not a real problem, but it IS something strange... wel to me it is.... Thanks in advance. Hope to keep up with you this time... ;-) Bert-Jan From thevigil at kabelfoon.nl Wed Mar 17 17:09:46 2004 From: thevigil at kabelfoon.nl (Bert-Jan Brinkhuis) Date: Thu, 18 Mar 2004 00:09:46 +0100 Subject: [AccessD] excell's split box in access form Message-ID: <001501c40c74$f30be840$214e2d3e@jester> Hi, does anyone know how to make an excell like vertical split box in access? Bert-Jan From davide at dalyn.co.nz Wed Mar 17 17:41:41 2004 From: davide at dalyn.co.nz (David Emerson) Date: Thu, 18 Mar 2004 12:41:41 +1300 Subject: [AccessD] Import Date from Excel Message-ID: <5.2.0.9.0.20040318123458.00b2aae0@mail.dalyn.co.nz> I have a spreadsheet in Excel that is imported into a SQL2000 table. Because the field types are unknown the SQL fields are varchar(200). The problem is with dates - excel shows a date as 2/1/2004 but in the SQL table it is imported as 38018. I am using VBA to deal with each row at a time. How do I convert the number (38018) into a date? Regards David Emerson Dalyn Software Ltd 25 Cunliffe St, Churton Park Wellington, New Zealand Ph/Fax (877) 456-1205 From davide at dalyn.co.nz Wed Mar 17 18:25:06 2004 From: davide at dalyn.co.nz (David Emerson) Date: Thu, 18 Mar 2004 13:25:06 +1300 Subject: [AccessD] Import Date from Excel In-Reply-To: <5.2.0.9.0.20040318123458.00b2aae0@mail.dalyn.co.nz> Message-ID: <5.2.0.9.0.20040318132415.00b59908@mail.dalyn.co.nz> A further piece of info - I can't set the SQL field to datetime as it rejects the number as not being a date when it is imported. David At 18/03/2004, you wrote: >I have a spreadsheet in Excel that is imported into a SQL2000 >table. Because the field types are unknown the SQL fields are varchar(200). > >The problem is with dates - excel shows a date as 2/1/2004 but in the SQL >table it is imported as 38018. > >I am using VBA to deal with each row at a time. How do I convert the >number (38018) into a date? > >Regards > >David Emerson >Dalyn Software Ltd >25 Cunliffe St, Churton Park >Wellington, New Zealand >Ph/Fax (877) 456-1205 >-- >_______________________________________________ >AccessD mailing list >AccessD at databaseadvisors.com >http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd >Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > From cfoust at infostatsystems.com Wed Mar 17 18:38:00 2004 From: cfoust at infostatsystems.com (Charlotte Foust) Date: Wed, 17 Mar 2004 16:38:00 -0800 Subject: [AccessD] Strange results with simple calculation on a form Message-ID: Are you trying to do any kind of calculations with these numbers, even simple addition or subtraction, and then comparing the results? If there are any doubles or singles involved, you can certainly get this kind of weird result courtesy of floating point number creep. If you change any double or single formats to currency, that should take care of it. Currency doesn't have to use a $, and since it isn't floating point, the problem should disappear. Charlotte Foust -----Original Message----- From: Bert-Jan Brinkhuis [mailto:thevigil at kabelfoon.nl] Sent: Wednesday, March 17, 2004 3:02 PM To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: [AccessD] Strange results with simple calculation on a form Hi all, i was forced to unsubscribe a while ago because i couldn't keep up with you and all the messages... ;-) But today a strange thing happened i had to ask you all about. I didn't do a big search on the internet, but searched the accessd archives and didn't find it. It maybe is a well known problem, but here it goes..... I have an unbound form where users will type amounts. All the txtboxes' format are set to "standard" and the decimal places is set to 2. And i check on the before_update event of these txtboxes if there are more then 2 decimals, if so, cancel = true. There is an calculated total control (txtTotal) wich has a controlsource like =[txtbox1]+[txtbox2] and so on (in total 12 txtboxes) These txtboxes are used to 'split up' the amount in another txtbox. (txtAmount) Before saving i check if txtAmount = txtTotal. When no decimals are used there is no problem, if there are only used decimals in 1 txtbox there is no problem. But if there are used decimals in more txtboxes access will tell me the values are not the same..... although the same values are shown... it turns out there is a difference of: 0.00000000000000710542735!!!!!! (debug.print told me this!) When i use the same 'function' in VBA it works fine with the same values....???? So it is not a real problem, but it IS something strange... wel to me it is.... Thanks in advance. Hope to keep up with you this time... ;-) Bert-Jan -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From davide at dalyn.co.nz Wed Mar 17 20:09:04 2004 From: davide at dalyn.co.nz (David Emerson) Date: Thu, 18 Mar 2004 15:09:04 +1300 Subject: [AccessD] Import Date from Excel In-Reply-To: <5.2.0.9.0.20040318132415.00b59908@mail.dalyn.co.nz> References: <5.2.0.9.0.20040318123458.00b2aae0@mail.dalyn.co.nz> Message-ID: <5.2.0.9.0.20040318144404.025adc48@mail.dalyn.co.nz> Solved - Problem seemed to be trying to import when the spreadsheet was open in Excel. Close it and the dates import as dates. David At 18/03/2004, you wrote: >A further piece of info - I can't set the SQL field to datetime as it >rejects the number as not being a date when it is imported. > >David > >At 18/03/2004, you wrote: >>I have a spreadsheet in Excel that is imported into a SQL2000 >>table. Because the field types are unknown the SQL fields are varchar(200). >> >>The problem is with dates - excel shows a date as 2/1/2004 but in the SQL >>table it is imported as 38018. >> >>I am using VBA to deal with each row at a time. How do I convert the >>number (38018) into a date? >> >>Regards >> >>David Emerson >>Dalyn Software Ltd >>25 Cunliffe St, Churton Park >>Wellington, New Zealand >>Ph/Fax (877) 456-1205 >>-- >>_______________________________________________ >>AccessD mailing list >>AccessD at databaseadvisors.com >>http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd >>Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > >-- >_______________________________________________ >AccessD mailing list >AccessD at databaseadvisors.com >http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd >Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > From thevigil at kabelfoon.nl Thu Mar 18 02:19:54 2004 From: thevigil at kabelfoon.nl (Bert-Jan Brinkhuis) Date: Thu, 18 Mar 2004 09:19:54 +0100 Subject: [AccessD] Strange results with simple calculation on a form References: Message-ID: <002f01c40cc1$da652660$214e2d3e@jester> Charlotte, they are just values users type and they are only added to a total. I'll try the currency format. thanks, Bert-Jan ----- Original Message ----- From: "Charlotte Foust" To: "Access Developers discussion and problem solving" Sent: Thursday, March 18, 2004 1:38 AM Subject: RE: [AccessD] Strange results with simple calculation on a form > Are you trying to do any kind of calculations with these numbers, even > simple addition or subtraction, and then comparing the results? If > there are any doubles or singles involved, you can certainly get this > kind of weird result courtesy of floating point number creep. If you > change any double or single formats to currency, that should take care > of it. Currency doesn't have to use a $, and since it isn't floating > point, the problem should disappear. > > Charlotte Foust > > -----Original Message----- > From: Bert-Jan Brinkhuis [mailto:thevigil at kabelfoon.nl] > Sent: Wednesday, March 17, 2004 3:02 PM > To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com > Subject: [AccessD] Strange results with simple calculation on a form > > > Hi all, > > i was forced to unsubscribe a while ago because i couldn't keep up with > you and all the messages... ;-) > > But today a strange thing happened i had to ask you all about. I didn't > do a big search on the internet, but searched the accessd archives and > didn't find it. It maybe is a well known problem, but here it goes..... > > I have an unbound form where users will type amounts. All the txtboxes' > format are set to "standard" and the decimal places is set to 2. And i > check on the before_update event of these txtboxes if there are more > then 2 decimals, if so, cancel = true. There is an calculated total > control > (txtTotal) wich has a controlsource like =[txtbox1]+[txtbox2] and so on > (in total 12 txtboxes) These txtboxes are used to 'split up' the amount > in another txtbox. > (txtAmount) > > Before saving i check if txtAmount = txtTotal. When no decimals are used > there is no problem, if there are only used decimals in 1 txtbox there > is no problem. But if there are used decimals in more txtboxes access > will tell me the values are not the same..... although the same values > are shown... it turns out there is a difference of: > 0.00000000000000710542735!!!!!! (debug.print told me this!) > > When i use the same 'function' in VBA it works fine with the same > values....???? > > So it is not a real problem, but it IS something strange... wel to me it > is.... > > Thanks in advance. > > Hope to keep up with you this time... ;-) > > Bert-Jan > > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From gustav at cactus.dk Thu Mar 18 04:18:43 2004 From: gustav at cactus.dk (Gustav Brock) Date: Thu, 18 Mar 2004 11:18:43 +0100 Subject: [AccessD] Strange results with simple calculation on a form In-Reply-To: <000f01c40c73$f596f560$214e2d3e@jester> References: <000f01c40c73$f596f560$214e2d3e@jester> Message-ID: <1048451652.20040318111843@cactus.dk> Hi Bert-Jan Welcome back. Unbound textboxes contain text no matter how you format them. And decimals may not be exact Doubles and indeed not Singles. If you can accept a maximum of four decimals, use CCur(txtYourTextbox) to convert to Currency before doing any calculation or comparison. Else use CDbl() and compare to a max. tolerance of your choice: If Abs(dblTotal - dblAmount) < 1E-7 Then ' Values are equal. End If /gustav > Hi all, > i was forced to unsubscribe a while ago because i couldn't keep up with you > and all the messages... ;-) > But today a strange thing happened i had to ask you all about. I didn't do a > big search on the internet, but searched the accessd archives and didn't > find it. It maybe is a well known problem, but here it goes..... > I have an unbound form where users will type amounts. All the txtboxes' > format are set to "standard" and the decimal places is set to 2. And i check > on the before_update event of these txtboxes if there are more then 2 > decimals, if so, cancel = true. There is an calculated total control > (txtTotal) wich has a controlsource like =[txtbox1]+[txtbox2] and so on (in > total 12 txtboxes) > These txtboxes are used to 'split up' the amount in another txtbox. > (txtAmount) > Before saving i check if txtAmount = txtTotal. When no decimals are used > there is no problem, if there are only used decimals in 1 txtbox there is no > problem. But if there are used decimals in more txtboxes access will tell me > the values are not the same..... although the same values are shown... it > turns out there is a difference of: 0.00000000000000710542735!!!!!! > (debug.print told me this!) > When i use the same 'function' in VBA it works fine with the same > values....???? > So it is not a real problem, but it IS something strange... wel to me it > is.... > Thanks in advance. > Hope to keep up with you this time... ;-) > Bert-Jan From gustav at cactus.dk Thu Mar 18 03:37:42 2004 From: gustav at cactus.dk (Gustav Brock) Date: Thu, 18 Mar 2004 10:37:42 +0100 Subject: [AccessD] Re: [Private] Framework Discussion - Dependent Obje cts In-Reply-To: <40595E2A.32151.29D54A@localhost> References: <40595E2A.32151.29D54A@localhost> Message-ID: <505990543.20040318103742@cactus.dk> Hi Stuart and Marty OK, got the message. Thanks for the input! I may reconsider the next week containing two Thursdays. /gustav > On 17 Mar 2004 at 13:45, DWUTKA at marlow.com wrote: >> Gustav, Gustav, Gustav....you need to invest in VB 6. You could probably >> get it dirt cheap on eBay, and with your skills, you'll pick it up in a >> heart beat. > Or, dare I say it, PowerBasic. Great for producing DLLs and anyone > who is good with VB /VBA will pick it up quickly. > The best $199 I ever spent on software. From HollisVJ at pgdp.usec.com Thu Mar 18 06:06:38 2004 From: HollisVJ at pgdp.usec.com (Hollis,Virginia) Date: Thu, 18 Mar 2004 06:06:38 -0600 Subject: [AccessD] RE: Hyperlink Field Message-ID: <618EB4D6DDCDD3119B0A00508B6FD37A0CB0D358@cntexchange.pgdp.usec.com> I have set everything just as you have described - in A2K. The datatype is Hyperlink in the table and a textbox on the form, the cursor changes to a hand when I point to the field. In the field I put Microsoft.com, when I tab or click on the field it shows Microsoft.com#http://Microsoft.com#, when I exit the field it displays just Microsoft.com. I set the textbox to IsHyperlink. The only exception is when I click on the Microsoft.com it does not open the URL, it just shows the address with the #'s - Microsoft.com#http://Microsoft.com#. I have tried deleting the textbox and recreating, but it still does not open URL. Virginia -----Original Message----- From: =?UNKNOWN?Q?J=FCrgen?= Welz [mailto:jwelz at hotmail.com] Sent: Wednesday, March 17, 2004 4:46 PM To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: RE: [AccessD] RE: Hyperlink Field Using Access 2000, I use Hyperlink datatype in the table and just a regular textbox in a form. No need to set the IsHyperlink property. Cursor is a hand when the mouse goes over the textbox and it launches a browser instance pointed at the URL when clicked once. Text appears as plain text in the textbox. If I store: ezonemag.com in the table, it appears as a hyperlink in the table but looks like plain text in the textbox. Tab into the field and hit F2 (edit) and it changes from hyperlink to clickable text until the focus is off the text box again when it reverts to acting like a hyperlink but looking like text. Text shown in the text box for the example is: ezonemag.com#http://www.ezonemag.com# I've never tried setting the IsHyperlink property True before today and the difference on my system (still running Win 95 on my current work machine, 64 meg peer 'server') is that it displays as a hyperlink in the textbox. Hitting the edit shows the same text, but underlined like a hyperlink, as though the IsHyperlink property was false. Ciao J?rgen Welz Edmonton, Alberta jwelz at hotmail.com _________________________________________________________________ MSN Premium with Virus Guard and Firewall* from McAfee? Security : 2 months FREE* http://join.msn.com/?pgmarket=en-ca&page=byoa/prem&xAPID=1994&DI=1034&SU=htt p://hotmail.com/enca&HL=Market_MSNIS_Taglines -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From Subscriptions at servicexp.com Thu Mar 18 06:14:43 2004 From: Subscriptions at servicexp.com (Robert Gracie) Date: Thu, 18 Mar 2004 07:14:43 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] IsEncrypted Function?? In-Reply-To: <1048451652.20040318111843@cactus.dk> Message-ID: Does anyone have an IsEncrypted Function I can use? Robert Gracie www.servicexp.com From stuart at lexacorp.com.pg Thu Mar 18 06:28:30 2004 From: stuart at lexacorp.com.pg (Stuart McLachlan) Date: Thu, 18 Mar 2004 22:28:30 +1000 Subject: [AccessD] IsEncrypted Function?? In-Reply-To: References: <1048451652.20040318111843@cactus.dk> Message-ID: <405A228E.19152.328F7E2@localhost> On 18 Mar 2004 at 7:14, Robert Gracie wrote: > > Does anyone have an IsEncrypted Function I can use? > > To test whether *what* is encrypted? -- Lexacorp Ltd http://www.lexacorp.com.pg Information Technology Consultancy, Software Development,System Support. From Subscriptions at servicexp.com Thu Mar 18 06:34:44 2004 From: Subscriptions at servicexp.com (Robert Gracie) Date: Thu, 18 Mar 2004 07:34:44 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] IsEncrypted Function?? In-Reply-To: <405A228E.19152.328F7E2@localhost> Message-ID: I'm sorry.... A file and or a string....... Robert Gracie www.servicexp.com -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Stuart McLachlan Sent: Thursday, March 18, 2004 7:29 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] IsEncrypted Function?? On 18 Mar 2004 at 7:14, Robert Gracie wrote: > > Does anyone have an IsEncrypted Function I can use? > > To test whether *what* is encrypted? -- Lexacorp Ltd http://www.lexacorp.com.pg Information Technology Consultancy, Software Development,System Support. -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From gustav at cactus.dk Thu Mar 18 06:43:35 2004 From: gustav at cactus.dk (Gustav Brock) Date: Thu, 18 Mar 2004 13:43:35 +0100 Subject: [AccessD] IsEncrypted Function?? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <9117142960.20040318134335@cactus.dk> Hi Robert If it contains spaces, it is probably not encrypted. If it doesn't, I dont think you can say anything for sure ... /gustav > I'm sorry.... A file and or a string....... >> Does anyone have an IsEncrypted Function I can use? From stuart at lexacorp.com.pg Thu Mar 18 06:51:45 2004 From: stuart at lexacorp.com.pg (Stuart McLachlan) Date: Thu, 18 Mar 2004 22:51:45 +1000 Subject: [AccessD] IsEncrypted Function?? In-Reply-To: References: <405A228E.19152.328F7E2@localhost> Message-ID: <405A2801.28617.33E411A@localhost> > I'm sorry.... A file and or a string....... > > Robert Gracie > www.servicexp.com > > > > > > > Does anyone have an IsEncrypted Function I can use? > > > > > To test whether *what* is encrypted? > What encryption scheme. There's no way to look at a string and say whether it is encrypted or not unless you know what sort of encrytion scheme is used or have an idea of what the original was. Sometimes not even then. Here are two strings: "ABC" "NOP". One is ROT13 encrypted. Which one? Depends on whether the original string was "ABC" or "NOP" :-) -- Lexacorp Ltd http://www.lexacorp.com.pg Information Technology Consultancy, Software Development,System Support. From jmoss111 at bellsouth.net Thu Mar 18 10:19:44 2004 From: jmoss111 at bellsouth.net (JMoss) Date: Thu, 18 Mar 2004 08:19:44 -0800 Subject: [AccessD] RE: Hyperlink Field In-Reply-To: Message-ID: I set a column to type text, and the text box on the form to ishyperlink and the hyperlink worked perfectly. Then I set a column to type hyperlink and left the text box as is and the URL worked perfectly too. Only after I changed data type did I ever see the #. I had to delete the column from the table and recreate to get rid of the last behaviour, ie the # Using Win 2000/Access 2000 for this case. -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of J?rgen Welz Sent: Wednesday, March 17, 2004 2:46 PM To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: RE: [AccessD] RE: Hyperlink Field Using Access 2000, I use Hyperlink datatype in the table and just a regular textbox in a form. No need to set the IsHyperlink property. Cursor is a hand when the mouse goes over the textbox and it launches a browser instance pointed at the URL when clicked once. Text appears as plain text in the textbox. If I store: ezonemag.com in the table, it appears as a hyperlink in the table but looks like plain text in the textbox. Tab into the field and hit F2 (edit) and it changes from hyperlink to clickable text until the focus is off the text box again when it reverts to acting like a hyperlink but looking like text. Text shown in the text box for the example is: ezonemag.com#http://www.ezonemag.com# I've never tried setting the IsHyperlink property True before today and the difference on my system (still running Win 95 on my current work machine, 64 meg peer 'server') is that it displays as a hyperlink in the textbox. Hitting the edit shows the same text, but underlined like a hyperlink, as though the IsHyperlink property was false. Ciao J?rgen Welz Edmonton, Alberta jwelz at hotmail.com _________________________________________________________________ MSN Premium with Virus Guard and Firewall* from McAfee? Security : 2 months FREE* http://join.msn.com/?pgmarket=en-ca&page=byoa/prem&xAPID=1994&DI=1034&SU=htt p://hotmail.com/enca&HL=Market_MSNIS_Taglines -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From prodevmg at yahoo.com Thu Mar 18 08:25:00 2004 From: prodevmg at yahoo.com (Lonnie Johnson) Date: Thu, 18 Mar 2004 06:25:00 -0800 (PST) Subject: [AccessD] Terminal Server and Access XP In-Reply-To: <2F8793082E00D4119A1700B0D0216BF80222797F@main2.marlow.com> Message-ID: <20040318142500.19121.qmail@web20414.mail.yahoo.com> We gave them power user rights, still couldn't run the code. We gave them administrator rights, still couldn't run the code. Our guts are hurting now. DWUTKA at marlow.com wrote: If it works logged in as an Admin, then it's a permissions issue. Are the logged in users 'power users'? Drew -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Lonnie Johnson Sent: Tuesday, March 16, 2004 7:04 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] Terminal Server and Access XP Nope. I was kinda hoping there was. It works if we log onto the terminal server as administrator, but not as a regular user. Would this be at the registry level? DWUTKA at marlow.com wrote:Any missing references? Drew -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Lonnie Johnson Sent: Monday, March 15, 2004 3:56 PM To: 'MS-ACCESS-L at lists.missouri.edu'; AccessDevelopers; ms_access; AccessD solving' Subject: [AccessD] Terminal Server and Access XP Users are getting a "Run-Time error 13, type mis match" when the application tries to cycle through some controls with the following: Dim ctl as Control For Each ctl in Me.Controls... This works fine in A97 and XP on regular machines. It even works for the administrator on a terminal server machine, but not regular users on terminal server. Anyone have a clue????????? Lonnie Johnson ProDev, Professional Development of MS Access Databases Visit me at ==> http://www.prodev.us Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Mail - More reliable, more storage, less spam -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com Lonnie Johnson ProDev, Professional Development of MS Access Databases Visit me at ==> http://www.prodev.us Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Mail - More reliable, more storage, less spam -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com Lonnie Johnson ProDev, Professional Development of MS Access Databases Visit me at ==> http://www.prodev.us Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Mail - More reliable, more storage, less spam From dwaters at usinternet.com Thu Mar 18 08:33:35 2004 From: dwaters at usinternet.com (Dan Waters) Date: Thu, 18 Mar 2004 08:33:35 -0600 Subject: [AccessD] Import Date from Excel In-Reply-To: <28346463.1079569714435.JavaMail.root@sniper2.marix.com> Message-ID: <000001c40cf5$fef7ccb0$de1811d8@DanWaters> David, I believe that December 31, 1899 = 0 in Excel (on a PC that is not using 1904 date format). Check this to be sure. Perhaps you could add the 38018 to 12/31/1899 in code to get the correct date? HTH, Dan -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of David Emerson Sent: Wednesday, March 17, 2004 6:25 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Import Date from Excel A further piece of info - I can't set the SQL field to datetime as it rejects the number as not being a date when it is imported. David At 18/03/2004, you wrote: >I have a spreadsheet in Excel that is imported into a SQL2000 >table. Because the field types are unknown the SQL fields are varchar(200). > >The problem is with dates - excel shows a date as 2/1/2004 but in the SQL >table it is imported as 38018. > >I am using VBA to deal with each row at a time. How do I convert the >number (38018) into a date? > >Regards > >David Emerson >Dalyn Software Ltd >25 Cunliffe St, Churton Park >Wellington, New Zealand >Ph/Fax (877) 456-1205 >-- >_______________________________________________ >AccessD mailing list >AccessD at databaseadvisors.com >http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd >Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From dwaters at usinternet.com Thu Mar 18 08:33:35 2004 From: dwaters at usinternet.com (Dan Waters) Date: Thu, 18 Mar 2004 08:33:35 -0600 Subject: [AccessD] OT Wrist/Arm Pain - was Short Date Input Mask quest ion In-Reply-To: <30348442.1079561688018.JavaMail.root@sniper.marix.com> Message-ID: <000101c40cf5$ff5507e0$de1811d8@DanWaters> For me two things have eliminated all wrist pain. First is that I try to use a split keyboard as much as possible. This lets my wrists stay straight while typing. It took me about 2 weeks to get used to it. Second is that I use a very lightweight mouse. I'm currently using a Fellowes Mini Web Pro, which only weighs 2 or 3 ounces. Before doing the two things above, I occasionally had to stop for several hours due to wrist pain, but not any more! Most of my work is typing text/code and creating forms and reports. Dan -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of rusty.hammond at cpiqpc.com Sent: Wednesday, March 17, 2004 1:30 PM To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: RE: [AccessD] OT Wrist/Arm Pain - was Short Date Input Mask quest ion I've switched my mouse to left handed at work as well. What has really helped the most for me is a quick set of wrist excercises I do each morning. Takes about 2 minutes to do. -----Original Message----- From: Porter, Mark [mailto:MPorter at acsalaska.com] Sent: Wednesday, March 17, 2004 1:09 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: [AccessD] Short Date Input Mask question My solution for wrist/arm pain was to learn to use the mouse left-handed. Back when I was working and consulting in the evenings, I would use the left hand at work and right hand in the evenings. Now I just switch off. Nothing but occasional soreness now and again for the last 4 years. Mark > -----Original Message----- > From: Charlotte Foust [mailto:cfoust at infostatsystems.com] > Sent: Wednesday, March 17, 2004 8:38 AM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: RE: [AccessD] Short Date Input Mask question > > > Hah! I got tendonitis in my thumb using a trackball. Had to > go back to > a mouse. That just shows that there is no single right answer. :-} > > Charlotte Foust > > -----Original Message----- > From: William Hindman [mailto:wdhindman at bellsouth.net] > Sent: Wednesday, March 17, 2004 9:25 AM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: Re: [AccessD] Short Date Input Mask question > > > ...shortcut keys/number pad activate each calendar function > ...and I've > got every client converted to trackballs instead of mice ...I used to > have severe CTS using a mouse but since moving to trackballs I've been > symptom free :) > > William Hindman > You know the world is upside down when Bill Clinton wins a Grammy and > Janet Jackson is the subject of a government sex investigation. Argus > Hamilton. > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Heenan, Lambert" > To: "'Access Developers discussion and problem solving'" > > Sent: Wednesday, March 17, 2004 10:52 AM > Subject: RE: [AccessD] Short Date Input Mask question > > > > Bryan, > > > > Point taken. This was why I made the comment about mass > data input. In > point > > of fact it is possible, though a bit clunky, to select a > date with the > > > keyboard, and I should perhaps revisit the design on the > form to make > > it easier to do so. > > > > RSI is a serious problem, and I sympathize with your for having to > > deal > with > > it. However it's not confined to mouse use, indeed I > remember it first > being > > reported back in the 80's before mice very prevalent. In those days > > the blame was laid at the door of the extreme ease with > which computer > keyboards > > operated vs. manual typewriters. This allowed for very rapid > > keystrokes, which was thought to be the root cause of RSI. > > > > I also see people who have bizarre ideas about how they should > > position their keyboards and mice. In short there are lots > of factors > > involved, and at the end of the day the user has to figure out the > > best way to use the d*mned machines. So, to reiterate, I think I'll > > take the time to redesign > my > > date picker form to allow for better keyboard use of it. > > > > Lambert > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > From: Bryan Carbonnell [SMTP:Bryan_Carbonnell at cbc.ca] > > > Sent: Wednesday, March 17, 2004 9:52 AM > > > To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com > > > Subject: RE: [AccessD] Short Date Input Mask question > > > > > > Lambert, > > > > > > It may work fine for you, but does it work for your users? Do you > > > force them to use the mouse to select the date, or can they do > > > everything they need to from the keyboard? > > > > > > The only reason I bring this up is that I have had RSI > from moving > > > between the mouse and keyboard for data entry too much. It got to > > > the point where by 10 AM I could not feel my little > finger and half > > > of my lower arm becaude of it. > > > > > > As soon as I got one application that I used on a regular > basis more > > > > keyboard friendly it helped. > > > > > > Just try to keep that in mind. I know I always do. I let > users use > > > the mouse or enter with the keyboard. Their choice. > > > > > > Bryan Carbonnell > > > bryan_carbonnell at cbc.ca > > > > > > > > > >>> Lambert.Heenan at AIG.com 17-Mar-04 9:21:45 AM >>> > > > My solution to date entry is simple - I never let user's > type in a > > > date. They always pick the date from a simple calendar > form (though > > > I don't use > > > the MS Calendar control). Click on a date field and up > pops the date > > > picker. > > > While this would not be suitable, perhaps, in applications where > > > massive > > > numbers of dates need to be entered, I find it works just fine for > me. > > > > > > Lambert > > > > > > -- > > > _______________________________________________ > > > AccessD mailing list > > > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > > > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > -- > > _______________________________________________ > > AccessD mailing list > > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > **************************************************************************** ******* 17/3/2004 This transmittal may contain confidential information intended solely for the addressee. If you are not the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that you have received this transmittal in error; any review, dissemination, distribution or copying of this transmittal is strictly prohibited. If you have received this communication in error, please notify us immediately by reply or by telephone (collect at 907-564-1000) and ask to speak with the message sender. In addition, please immediately delete this message and all attachments. Thank you. ACS -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From Bryan_Carbonnell at cbc.ca Thu Mar 18 08:47:51 2004 From: Bryan_Carbonnell at cbc.ca (Bryan Carbonnell) Date: Thu, 18 Mar 2004 09:47:51 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Short Date Input Mask question Message-ID: > whether the user is military trained (euro dating) or public school trained > (US dating you hope) or wants to type in the alpha month, I get him there Don't you mean "US public school trained (US dating you hope)"? :) I would expect that public school trained folks here in Canada to use d-m-y and not m-d-y :-) Although I believe I was taught y-m-d, but maybe that was in University. I don't remeber Getting too senile Bryan Carbonnell bryan_carbonnell at cbc.ca >>> wdhindman at bellsouth.net 17-Mar-04 4:44:47 PM >>> ...yes and no ...convenient but a suck for bad data entry ime ...one types in 6/1/2004 ...one types in 1/6/2004 ...one types in 1 jun 04 and tabs on down the line, etc ...lecture me all day on dumb users but I don't have the option of firing them ...so I pop up a small calendar every time ...if the user enters directly in the text box, the calendar moves to the date entered to provide visual feedback ...if he/she selects from the calendar it fills the text box ...either way they can mouse it or keyboard it ...so no matter whether the user is military trained (euro dating) or public school trained (US dating you hope) or wants to type in the alpha month, I get him there somehow so that the right date gets entered ...nothings foolproof but date entry errors have gone to zero ...which is worth the cost of the popup to me and my clients. From Bryan_Carbonnell at cbc.ca Thu Mar 18 08:53:35 2004 From: Bryan_Carbonnell at cbc.ca (Bryan Carbonnell) Date: Thu, 18 Mar 2004 09:53:35 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] RE: Hyperlink Field Message-ID: Virginia, Under Tools|Options|Keyboard tab What is selected in the Behaviour entereing field frame? I would bet that it is NOT Select Entire field. Switch it to Select Entire Field, and try that. I think that might "fix" the problem. Bryan Carbonnell bryan_carbonnell at cbc.ca >>> HollisVJ at pgdp.usec.com 18-Mar-04 7:06:38 AM >>> I have set everything just as you have described - in A2K. The datatype is Hyperlink in the table and a textbox on the form, the cursor changes to a hand when I point to the field. In the field I put Microsoft.com, when I tab or click on the field it shows Microsoft.com#http://Microsoft.com#, when I exit the field it displays just Microsoft.com. I set the textbox to IsHyperlink. The only exception is when I click on the Microsoft.com it does not open the URL, it just shows the address with the #'s - Microsoft.com#http://Microsoft.com#. I have tried deleting the textbox and recreating, but it still does not open URL. From HollisVJ at pgdp.usec.com Thu Mar 18 09:13:54 2004 From: HollisVJ at pgdp.usec.com (Hollis,Virginia) Date: Thu, 18 Mar 2004 09:13:54 -0600 Subject: [AccessD] RE: Hyperlink Field Message-ID: <618EB4D6DDCDD3119B0A00508B6FD37A0CB0D35F@cntexchange.pgdp.usec.com> Give the man a beer!! He did it. Virginia -----Original Message----- From: Bryan Carbonnell [mailto:Bryan_Carbonnell at cbc.ca] Sent: Thursday, March 18, 2004 8:54 AM To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: RE: [AccessD] RE: Hyperlink Field Virginia, Under Tools|Options|Keyboard tab What is selected in the Behaviour entereing field frame? I would bet that it is NOT Select Entire field. Switch it to Select Entire Field, and try that. I think that might "fix" the problem. Bryan Carbonnell bryan_carbonnell at cbc.ca >>> HollisVJ at pgdp.usec.com 18-Mar-04 7:06:38 AM >>> I have set everything just as you have described - in A2K. The datatype is Hyperlink in the table and a textbox on the form, the cursor changes to a hand when I point to the field. In the field I put Microsoft.com, when I tab or click on the field it shows Microsoft.com#http://Microsoft.com#, when I exit the field it displays just Microsoft.com. I set the textbox to IsHyperlink. The only exception is when I click on the Microsoft.com it does not open the URL, it just shows the address with the #'s - Microsoft.com#http://Microsoft.com#. I have tried deleting the textbox and recreating, but it still does not open URL. -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From Bryan_Carbonnell at cbc.ca Thu Mar 18 09:17:18 2004 From: Bryan_Carbonnell at cbc.ca (Bryan Carbonnell) Date: Thu, 18 Mar 2004 10:17:18 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] RE: Hyperlink Field Message-ID: Glad that was it. Bryan Carbonnell bryan_carbonnell at cbc.ca >>> HollisVJ at pgdp.usec.com 18-Mar-04 10:13:54 AM >>> Give the man a beer!! He did it. Virginia -----Original Message----- From: Bryan Carbonnell [mailto:Bryan_Carbonnell at cbc.ca] Sent: Thursday, March 18, 2004 8:54 AM To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: RE: [AccessD] RE: Hyperlink Field Virginia, Under Tools|Options|Keyboard tab What is selected in the Behaviour entereing field frame? I would bet that it is NOT Select Entire field. Switch it to Select Entire Field, and try that. I think that might "fix" the problem. From HollisVJ at pgdp.usec.com Thu Mar 18 09:20:22 2004 From: HollisVJ at pgdp.usec.com (Hollis,Virginia) Date: Thu, 18 Mar 2004 09:20:22 -0600 Subject: [AccessD] Sending Preformatted Emails Message-ID: <618EB4D6DDCDD3119B0A00508B6FD37A0CB0D360@cntexchange.pgdp.usec.com> This is my week for problems & questions - I am glad everyone has patience :-) We just switched to XP (another problem there). I have a database that sends a preformatted email when a requestor enters a task. The email is sent to an engineer to complete the task. The email contains the request number, a description of the request, etc from fields completed on the form. The problem is since we switched to XP, the user can enter a request and send only 1 email. If they enter another request, they can't send another email without exiting the database completely and going back in. So, with XP, it only permits one email at a time. There isn't an error message, if the button to send the email is clicked, nothing happens at all. Has anyone had any problems with this or any suggestions on how to solve the problem? Virginia From jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com Thu Mar 18 09:35:26 2004 From: jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com (John W. Colby) Date: Thu, 18 Mar 2004 10:35:26 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] zip/unzip Message-ID: I have always used the zip / unzip classes from Steve McMahon: ' Name: vbAccelerator cUnzip class ' Author: Steve McMahon (steve at vbaccelerator.com) ' Date: 1 January 2000 ' ' Requires: Info-ZIP's Zip32.DLL v2.32, renamed to vbzip10.dll ' mZip.bas ' which requires vbzip10.dll which I have managed to lose. I downloaded the zipped dlls but neither one will register on two computers at my office. Does anyone have these files you could email to me? Thanks, John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com From mikedorism at adelphia.net Thu Mar 18 09:37:06 2004 From: mikedorism at adelphia.net (Mike & Doris Manning) Date: Thu, 18 Mar 2004 10:37:06 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Sending Preformatted Emails In-Reply-To: <618EB4D6DDCDD3119B0A00508B6FD37A0CB0D360@cntexchange.pgdp.usec.com> Message-ID: <000001c40cfe$de874510$6ae44344@hargrove.internal> Can you post the code behind the button so we can see what you are doing now? Doris Manning Database Administrator Hargrove Inc. www.hargroveinc.com -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Hollis,Virginia Sent: Thursday, March 18, 2004 10:20 AM To: 'accessd at databaseadvisors.com' Subject: [AccessD] Sending Preformatted Emails This is my week for problems & questions - I am glad everyone has patience :-) We just switched to XP (another problem there). I have a database that sends a preformatted email when a requestor enters a task. The email is sent to an engineer to complete the task. The email contains the request number, a description of the request, etc from fields completed on the form. The problem is since we switched to XP, the user can enter a request and send only 1 email. If they enter another request, they can't send another email without exiting the database completely and going back in. So, with XP, it only permits one email at a time. There isn't an error message, if the button to send the email is clicked, nothing happens at all. Has anyone had any problems with this or any suggestions on how to solve the problem? Virginia -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From greggs at msn.com Thu Mar 18 09:54:49 2004 From: greggs at msn.com (Gregg) Date: Thu, 18 Mar 2004 09:54:49 -0600 Subject: [AccessD] Sending Preformatted Emails In-Reply-To: <618EB4D6DDCDD3119B0A00508B6FD37A0CB0D360@cntexchange.pgdp.usec.com> Message-ID: Virginia, If this is an Access 2K app there is a bug in the sendobject command that causes this unless you have loaded service pack 3. -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Hollis,Virginia Sent: Thursday, March 18, 2004 9:20 AM To: 'accessd at databaseadvisors.com' Subject: [AccessD] Sending Preformatted Emails This is my week for problems & questions - I am glad everyone has patience :-) We just switched to XP (another problem there). I have a database that sends a preformatted email when a requestor enters a task. The email is sent to an engineer to complete the task. The email contains the request number, a description of the request, etc from fields completed on the form. The problem is since we switched to XP, the user can enter a request and send only 1 email. If they enter another request, they can't send another email without exiting the database completely and going back in. So, with XP, it only permits one email at a time. There isn't an error message, if the button to send the email is clicked, nothing happens at all. Has anyone had any problems with this or any suggestions on how to solve the problem? Virginia -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From HollisVJ at pgdp.usec.com Thu Mar 18 09:44:56 2004 From: HollisVJ at pgdp.usec.com (Hollis,Virginia) Date: Thu, 18 Mar 2004 09:44:56 -0600 Subject: [AccessD] Sending Preformatted Emails Message-ID: <618EB4D6DDCDD3119B0A00508B6FD37A0CB0D362@cntexchange.pgdp.usec.com> Private Sub cmdSendEmail_Click() On Error GoTo Err_cmdSendEmail_Click If Len(MatRequestID & "") = 0 Then MsgBox "Enter a Request before sending a message." & vbCrLf, vbCritical, " Entry Required" ElseIf Len(RequestorID & "") = 0 Then MsgBox "The requestor must be entered." & vbCrLf, vbCritical, " Entry Required" RequestorID.SetFocus ElseIf Len(PriorityID & "") = 0 Then MsgBox "Please enter a priority." & vbCrLf, vbCritical, " Entry Required" PriorityID.SetFocus ElseIf Len(DateNeeded & "") = 0 Then MsgBox "The date needed must be entered." & vbCrLf, vbCritical, "Entry Required" DateNeeded.SetFocus ElseIf Len(Comments & "") = 0 Then MsgBox "A description of the request must be entered." & vbCrLf, vbCritical, " Entry Required" Comments.SetFocus Else Dim Mess As String, Subject As String, Recipient As String, Cc As String, Bcc As String Dim Msg, Style, Title, Response, MyString PlaySound Msg = "Do you want to send a notification ?" ' Define message. Style = vbYesNo + vbQuestion + vbDefaultButton1 ' Define buttons. Title = "New Notice Request" ' Define title. ' Display message. Response = MsgBox(Msg, Style, Title) If Response = vbYes Then ' User chose Yes. MyString = "Yes" ' Perform some action. Recipient = DLookup("[EmailName]", "qry_Email") Subject = "New Materials Request, MMR-" + CStr(Format([MatRequestID], "00000")) Cc = DLookup("[Requestor]", "qry_Requestor", "[RequestorID]=[Forms]![frm_MaterialsEntry]![RequestorID]") Bcc = "Virginia Hollis" Mess = "A new Materials Management Request has been submitted, " + _ "please assign an analyst to complete this request:" + vbCrLf + vbCrLf + _ "Materials ID: MMR-" + CStr(Format([MatRequestID], "00000")) + vbCrLf + _ "Description: " + [Comments] + vbCrLf + _ "Need by Date " + CStr([DateNeeded]) + vbCrLf + _ "Requestor: " + DLookup("[Requestor]", "qry_Requestor", "[RequestorID]=[Forms]![frm_MaterialsEntry]![RequestorID]") + vbCrLf + _ "Phone: " + DLookup("[ReqPhone]", "qry_Requestor", "[RequestorID]=[Forms]![frm_MaterialsEntry]![RequestorID]") On Error Resume Next DoCmd.SendObject , , , Recipient, Cc, Bcc, Subject, Mess Else ' User chose No. MyString = "No" ' Perform some action. End If End If -----Original Message----- From: Mike & Doris Manning [mailto:mikedorism at adelphia.net] Sent: Thursday, March 18, 2004 9:37 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: [AccessD] Sending Preformatted Emails Can you post the code behind the button so we can see what you are doing now? Doris Manning Database Administrator Hargrove Inc. www.hargroveinc.com -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Hollis,Virginia Sent: Thursday, March 18, 2004 10:20 AM To: 'accessd at databaseadvisors.com' Subject: [AccessD] Sending Preformatted Emails This is my week for problems & questions - I am glad everyone has patience :-) We just switched to XP (another problem there). I have a database that sends a preformatted email when a requestor enters a task. The email is sent to an engineer to complete the task. The email contains the request number, a description of the request, etc from fields completed on the form. The problem is since we switched to XP, the user can enter a request and send only 1 email. If they enter another request, they can't send another email without exiting the database completely and going back in. So, with XP, it only permits one email at a time. There isn't an error message, if the button to send the email is clicked, nothing happens at all. Has anyone had any problems with this or any suggestions on how to solve the problem? Virginia -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From HollisVJ at pgdp.usec.com Thu Mar 18 09:53:23 2004 From: HollisVJ at pgdp.usec.com (Hollis,Virginia) Date: Thu, 18 Mar 2004 09:53:23 -0600 Subject: [AccessD] Sending Preformatted Emails Message-ID: <618EB4D6DDCDD3119B0A00508B6FD37A0CB0D363@cntexchange.pgdp.usec.com> IT tells me they won't download SP3 because of something to do with a security hole in Outlook. -----Original Message----- From: Gregg [mailto:greggs at msn.com] Sent: Thursday, March 18, 2004 9:55 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] Sending Preformatted Emails Virginia, If this is an Access 2K app there is a bug in the sendobject command that causes this unless you have loaded service pack 3. -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Hollis,Virginia Sent: Thursday, March 18, 2004 9:20 AM To: 'accessd at databaseadvisors.com' Subject: [AccessD] Sending Preformatted Emails This is my week for problems & questions - I am glad everyone has patience :-) We just switched to XP (another problem there). I have a database that sends a preformatted email when a requestor enters a task. The email is sent to an engineer to complete the task. The email contains the request number, a description of the request, etc from fields completed on the form. The problem is since we switched to XP, the user can enter a request and send only 1 email. If they enter another request, they can't send another email without exiting the database completely and going back in. So, with XP, it only permits one email at a time. There isn't an error message, if the button to send the email is clicked, nothing happens at all. Has anyone had any problems with this or any suggestions on how to solve the problem? Virginia -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From john at winhaven.net Thu Mar 18 10:04:54 2004 From: john at winhaven.net (John Bartow) Date: Thu, 18 Mar 2004 10:04:54 -0600 Subject: [AccessD] zip/unzip In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Hi John, Do you just need the vbzip10.dll file? I can send it offline. John B. -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of John W. Colby Sent: Thursday, March 18, 2004 9:35 AM To: AccessD Subject: [AccessD] zip/unzip I have always used the zip / unzip classes from Steve McMahon: ' Name: vbAccelerator cUnzip class ' Author: Steve McMahon (steve at vbaccelerator.com) ' Date: 1 January 2000 ' ' Requires: Info-ZIP's Zip32.DLL v2.32, renamed to vbzip10.dll ' mZip.bas ' which requires vbzip10.dll which I have managed to lose. I downloaded the zipped dlls but neither one will register on two computers at my office. Does anyone have these files you could email to me? Thanks, John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From ggonzalez at cccis.com Thu Mar 18 10:08:21 2004 From: ggonzalez at cccis.com (ggonzalez at cccis.com) Date: Thu, 18 Mar 2004 10:08:21 -0600 Subject: [AccessD] zip/unzip In-Reply-To: Message-ID: is this waht you are looking for http://www.vbaccelerator.com/home/VB/Code/Libraries/Compression/Introduction_to_the_Info-ZIP_Libraries/Info-ZIP_Zip_DLL_(Renamed_vbzip10_dll).asp From greggs at msn.com Thu Mar 18 10:20:58 2004 From: greggs at msn.com (Gregg) Date: Thu, 18 Mar 2004 10:20:58 -0600 Subject: [AccessD] Sending Preformatted Emails In-Reply-To: <618EB4D6DDCDD3119B0A00508B6FD37A0CB0D362@cntexchange.pgdp.usec.com> Message-ID: There some work around code you can put into a module... its quite large but it is your only hope. Here's the fix. http://support.microsoft.com/default.aspx?scid=kb;en-us;260819&Product=acc20 00 -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Hollis,Virginia Sent: Thursday, March 18, 2004 9:45 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: [AccessD] Sending Preformatted Emails Private Sub cmdSendEmail_Click() On Error GoTo Err_cmdSendEmail_Click If Len(MatRequestID & "") = 0 Then MsgBox "Enter a Request before sending a message." & vbCrLf, vbCritical, " Entry Required" ElseIf Len(RequestorID & "") = 0 Then MsgBox "The requestor must be entered." & vbCrLf, vbCritical, " Entry Required" RequestorID.SetFocus ElseIf Len(PriorityID & "") = 0 Then MsgBox "Please enter a priority." & vbCrLf, vbCritical, " Entry Required" PriorityID.SetFocus ElseIf Len(DateNeeded & "") = 0 Then MsgBox "The date needed must be entered." & vbCrLf, vbCritical, "Entry Required" DateNeeded.SetFocus ElseIf Len(Comments & "") = 0 Then MsgBox "A description of the request must be entered." & vbCrLf, vbCritical, " Entry Required" Comments.SetFocus Else Dim Mess As String, Subject As String, Recipient As String, Cc As String, Bcc As String Dim Msg, Style, Title, Response, MyString PlaySound Msg = "Do you want to send a notification ?" ' Define message. Style = vbYesNo + vbQuestion + vbDefaultButton1 ' Define buttons. Title = "New Notice Request" ' Define title. ' Display message. Response = MsgBox(Msg, Style, Title) If Response = vbYes Then ' User chose Yes. MyString = "Yes" ' Perform some action. Recipient = DLookup("[EmailName]", "qry_Email") Subject = "New Materials Request, MMR-" + CStr(Format([MatRequestID], "00000")) Cc = DLookup("[Requestor]", "qry_Requestor", "[RequestorID]=[Forms]![frm_MaterialsEntry]![RequestorID]") Bcc = "Virginia Hollis" Mess = "A new Materials Management Request has been submitted, " + _ "please assign an analyst to complete this request:" + vbCrLf + vbCrLf + _ "Materials ID: MMR-" + CStr(Format([MatRequestID], "00000")) + vbCrLf + _ "Description: " + [Comments] + vbCrLf + _ "Need by Date " + CStr([DateNeeded]) + vbCrLf + _ "Requestor: " + DLookup("[Requestor]", "qry_Requestor", "[RequestorID]=[Forms]![frm_MaterialsEntry]![RequestorID]") + vbCrLf + _ "Phone: " + DLookup("[ReqPhone]", "qry_Requestor", "[RequestorID]=[Forms]![frm_MaterialsEntry]![RequestorID]") On Error Resume Next DoCmd.SendObject , , , Recipient, Cc, Bcc, Subject, Mess Else ' User chose No. MyString = "No" ' Perform some action. End If End If -----Original Message----- From: Mike & Doris Manning [mailto:mikedorism at adelphia.net] Sent: Thursday, March 18, 2004 9:37 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: [AccessD] Sending Preformatted Emails Can you post the code behind the button so we can see what you are doing now? Doris Manning Database Administrator Hargrove Inc. www.hargroveinc.com -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Hollis,Virginia Sent: Thursday, March 18, 2004 10:20 AM To: 'accessd at databaseadvisors.com' Subject: [AccessD] Sending Preformatted Emails This is my week for problems & questions - I am glad everyone has patience :-) We just switched to XP (another problem there). I have a database that sends a preformatted email when a requestor enters a task. The email is sent to an engineer to complete the task. The email contains the request number, a description of the request, etc from fields completed on the form. The problem is since we switched to XP, the user can enter a request and send only 1 email. If they enter another request, they can't send another email without exiting the database completely and going back in. So, with XP, it only permits one email at a time. There isn't an error message, if the button to send the email is clicked, nothing happens at all. Has anyone had any problems with this or any suggestions on how to solve the problem? Virginia -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From cfoust at infostatsystems.com Thu Mar 18 10:28:06 2004 From: cfoust at infostatsystems.com (Charlotte Foust) Date: Thu, 18 Mar 2004 08:28:06 -0800 Subject: [AccessD] OT Wrist/Arm Pain - was Short Date Input Mask quest ion Message-ID: I've never had wrist problems from typing, only from reaching out and up to use the mouse. A keyboard shelf with and articlating mouse shelf puts the mouse level with the wrist rest for the keyboard, and I haven't had any problems since. PS/ I *hate* split keyboards and those ergonomic nightmares. I CANNOT type with my elbows stuck out like open doors! Charlotte Foust -----Original Message----- From: Dan Waters [mailto:dwaters at usinternet.com] Sent: Thursday, March 18, 2004 6:34 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: [AccessD] OT Wrist/Arm Pain - was Short Date Input Mask quest ion For me two things have eliminated all wrist pain. First is that I try to use a split keyboard as much as possible. This lets my wrists stay straight while typing. It took me about 2 weeks to get used to it. Second is that I use a very lightweight mouse. I'm currently using a Fellowes Mini Web Pro, which only weighs 2 or 3 ounces. Before doing the two things above, I occasionally had to stop for several hours due to wrist pain, but not any more! Most of my work is typing text/code and creating forms and reports. Dan -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of rusty.hammond at cpiqpc.com Sent: Wednesday, March 17, 2004 1:30 PM To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: RE: [AccessD] OT Wrist/Arm Pain - was Short Date Input Mask quest ion I've switched my mouse to left handed at work as well. What has really helped the most for me is a quick set of wrist excercises I do each morning. Takes about 2 minutes to do. -----Original Message----- From: Porter, Mark [mailto:MPorter at acsalaska.com] Sent: Wednesday, March 17, 2004 1:09 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: [AccessD] Short Date Input Mask question My solution for wrist/arm pain was to learn to use the mouse left-handed. Back when I was working and consulting in the evenings, I would use the left hand at work and right hand in the evenings. Now I just switch off. Nothing but occasional soreness now and again for the last 4 years. Mark > -----Original Message----- > From: Charlotte Foust [mailto:cfoust at infostatsystems.com] > Sent: Wednesday, March 17, 2004 8:38 AM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: RE: [AccessD] Short Date Input Mask question > > > Hah! I got tendonitis in my thumb using a trackball. Had to > go back to > a mouse. That just shows that there is no single right answer. :-} > > Charlotte Foust > > -----Original Message----- > From: William Hindman [mailto:wdhindman at bellsouth.net] > Sent: Wednesday, March 17, 2004 9:25 AM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: Re: [AccessD] Short Date Input Mask question > > > ...shortcut keys/number pad activate each calendar function > ...and I've > got every client converted to trackballs instead of mice ...I used to > have severe CTS using a mouse but since moving to trackballs I've been > symptom free :) > > William Hindman > You know the world is upside down when Bill Clinton wins a Grammy and > Janet Jackson is the subject of a government sex investigation. Argus > Hamilton. > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Heenan, Lambert" > To: "'Access Developers discussion and problem solving'" > > Sent: Wednesday, March 17, 2004 10:52 AM > Subject: RE: [AccessD] Short Date Input Mask question > > > > Bryan, > > > > Point taken. This was why I made the comment about mass > data input. In > point > > of fact it is possible, though a bit clunky, to select a > date with the > > > keyboard, and I should perhaps revisit the design on the > form to make > > it easier to do so. > > > > RSI is a serious problem, and I sympathize with your for having to > > deal > with > > it. However it's not confined to mouse use, indeed I > remember it first > being > > reported back in the 80's before mice very prevalent. In those days > > the blame was laid at the door of the extreme ease with > which computer > keyboards > > operated vs. manual typewriters. This allowed for very rapid > > keystrokes, which was thought to be the root cause of RSI. > > > > I also see people who have bizarre ideas about how they should > > position their keyboards and mice. In short there are lots > of factors > > involved, and at the end of the day the user has to figure out the > > best way to use the d*mned machines. So, to reiterate, I think I'll > > take the time to redesign > my > > date picker form to allow for better keyboard use of it. > > > > Lambert > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > From: Bryan Carbonnell [SMTP:Bryan_Carbonnell at cbc.ca] > > > Sent: Wednesday, March 17, 2004 9:52 AM > > > To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com > > > Subject: RE: [AccessD] Short Date Input Mask question > > > > > > Lambert, > > > > > > It may work fine for you, but does it work for your users? Do you > > > force them to use the mouse to select the date, or can they do > > > everything they need to from the keyboard? > > > > > > The only reason I bring this up is that I have had RSI > from moving > > > between the mouse and keyboard for data entry too much. It got to > > > the point where by 10 AM I could not feel my little > finger and half > > > of my lower arm becaude of it. > > > > > > As soon as I got one application that I used on a regular > basis more > > > > keyboard friendly it helped. > > > > > > Just try to keep that in mind. I know I always do. I let > users use > > > the mouse or enter with the keyboard. Their choice. > > > > > > Bryan Carbonnell > > > bryan_carbonnell at cbc.ca > > > > > > > > > >>> Lambert.Heenan at AIG.com 17-Mar-04 9:21:45 AM >>> > > > My solution to date entry is simple - I never let user's > type in a > > > date. They always pick the date from a simple calendar > form (though > > > I don't use > > > the MS Calendar control). Click on a date field and up > pops the date > > > picker. > > > While this would not be suitable, perhaps, in applications where > > > massive numbers of dates need to be entered, I find it works just > > > fine for > me. > > > > > > Lambert > > > > > > -- > > > _______________________________________________ > > > AccessD mailing list > > > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > > > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > -- > > _______________________________________________ > > AccessD mailing list > > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > ************************************************************************ **** ******* 17/3/2004 This transmittal may contain confidential information intended solely for the addressee. 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ACS -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com Thu Mar 18 10:42:41 2004 From: jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com (John W. Colby) Date: Thu, 18 Mar 2004 11:42:41 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] zip/unzip In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Thats where I got them from. They won't register. -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of ggonzalez at cccis.com Sent: Thursday, March 18, 2004 11:08 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] zip/unzip is this waht you are looking for http://www.vbaccelerator.com/home/VB/Code/Libraries/Compression/Introduction _to_the_Info-ZIP_Libraries/Info-ZIP_Zip_DLL_(Renamed_vbzip10_dll).asp -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From rl_stewart at highstream.net Thu Mar 18 11:04:55 2004 From: rl_stewart at highstream.net (Robert L. Stewart) Date: Thu, 18 Mar 2004 11:04:55 -0600 Subject: [AccessD] Re: Re: Hyperlink Field In-Reply-To: <200403181434.i2IEYVM26069@databaseadvisors.com> Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20040318110136.02ad3800@pop3.highstream.net> Stuart, Try Hyperlink Address and Hyperlink subaddress properties for a label. Access 97, 2000, 2002, 2003 After looking at what she asked closer, I think all she needs to do is add a hyperlink datatype column to her table. Robert At 08:34 AM 3/18/2004 -0600, you wrote: >Message: 5 >Date: Thu, 18 Mar 2004 08:12:52 +1000 >From: "Stuart McLachlan" >Subject: Re: [AccessD] Re: Hyperlink Field >To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > >Message-ID: <40595A04.4146.19A0E9 at localhost> >Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII > >On 17 Mar 2004 at 15:53, Robert L. Stewart wrote: > > > Virginia, > > > > The trick is that a label has the hyperlink > > property and not a text box. Use a label > > and set the properties for it in code. > > > > > >Not in any version of Access I've ever seen. > >The "Is hyperlink" property is the last one in the "Format" tab of >the textbox "Properties" dialog. From gustav at cactus.dk Thu Mar 18 11:22:41 2004 From: gustav at cactus.dk (Gustav Brock) Date: Thu, 18 Mar 2004 18:22:41 +0100 Subject: [AccessD] Sending Preformatted Emails In-Reply-To: <618EB4D6DDCDD3119B0A00508B6FD37A0CB0D362@cntexchange.pgdp.usec.com> References: <618EB4D6DDCDD3119B0A00508B6FD37A0CB0D362@cntexchange.pgdp.usec.com> Message-ID: <18933889140.20040318182241@cactus.dk> Hi Virginia Try commenting out this: ' On Error Resume Next and watch if something happens. /gustav From DWUTKA at marlow.com Thu Mar 18 11:28:47 2004 From: DWUTKA at marlow.com (DWUTKA at marlow.com) Date: Thu, 18 Mar 2004 11:28:47 -0600 Subject: [AccessD] Short Date Input Mask question Message-ID: <2F8793082E00D4119A1700B0D0216BF80222798B@main2.marlow.com> Wait until I get that thing finished....THEN you'll have a reason to try my new one.... grin. Of course, you'll probably complain about how 'un-mini' it is...LOL! Drew -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of William Hindman Sent: Wednesday, March 17, 2004 3:45 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Short Date Input Mask question ...yes and no ...convenient but a suck for bad data entry ime ...one types in 6/1/2004 ...one types in 1/6/2004 ...one types in 1 jun 04 and tabs on down the line, etc ...lecture me all day on dumb users but I don't have the option of firing them ...so I pop up a small calendar every time ...if the user enters directly in the text box, the calendar moves to the date entered to provide visual feedback ...if he/she selects from the calendar it fills the text box ...either way they can mouse it or keyboard it ...so no matter whether the user is military trained (euro dating) or public school trained (US dating you hope) or wants to type in the alpha month, I get him there somehow so that the right date gets entered ...nothings foolproof but date entry errors have gone to zero ...which is worth the cost of the popup to me and my clients. ...as a side I tried this approach using the native calendar control and could never make its speed acceptable ...after a lot of experimentation I standardized on an older version of Drew's all vba code calendar (with some mods) which is quite fast for my needs ...one of these days I might get around to using his newest version but I've not found a reason to as yet :) William Hindman You know the world is upside down when Bill Clinton wins a Grammy and Janet Jackson is the subject of a government sex investigation. Argus Hamilton. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Brett Barabash" To: "'Access Developers discussion and problem solving'" Sent: Wednesday, March 17, 2004 3:43 PM Subject: RE: [AccessD] Short Date Input Mask question > >I do not believe that providing a pop up calendar is incorrect especially > as > >the users can tab into a date field and use a keyboard in any event. > > You missed my point. This is EXACTLY my sentiment. > > I said: > >One of my biggest UI pet peeves is fields that disallow keyboard entry. > > My response was to someone who doesn't allow the user to tab into a date > field and forces them to open up a calendar instead. In my opinion, this is > a lazy way of avoiding date validation code. > > Have you ever used a program or website that forces you to use a calendar to > enter your birthdate? (I have!) Personally, I find it a PITA to click a > button to open a calendar, navigate to 1975, select May from a dropdown and > then click on the 6. I'd like to type 05/06/1975, but some lazy programmer > decided that it's way more elegant to launch a special screen to guide me > through this complex process. > > OTOH, Outlook gives you several different options for date selection. To > schedule a meeting for tomorrow, I can type... > 03/18/2004 > March 18, 2004 > 2004 Mar 18 > ...or click on the box next to the field if I want to see a calendar. > > The developers put a lot of thought into this and because of its inherent > flexibility it is easy to use by all types of users. I wish other pieces of > software were as ambitious. > > > -----Original Message----- > From: J?rgen Welz [mailto:jwelz at hotmail.com] > Sent: Wednesday, March 17, 2004 1:45 PM > To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com > Subject: RE: [AccessD] Short Date Input Mask question > > At one point a few years ago at this list I made a similar comment saying I > provided a doubleclick pop up calendar and received a similar response. As > a result, I once logged usage of: > > Double click pop up calendar > vs > Key down with form key preview on, Alt-d pops calendar if screen active > control had a standard input mask property. > > I also considered a keyboard autokeys macro call a runcode that did the same > > thing but never did implement this version. > > Logging indicated that well over 98% of the data entry was by double click > popup calendar. Granted these were very 'unsophisticated' users but the > majority of their daily tasks involved interaction with the application. > > I do not believe that providing a pop up calendar is incorrect especially as > > the users can tab into a date field and use a keyboard in any event. IIRC, > I had changed the display format and input mask dynamically in the past so > that a user could key in 'mm/dd/yy' but the display format whenever the > control didn't have focus was 'mmm/dd/yyyy'. I also added a label > displaying the input format at each date entry textbox so there was never a > question as to the required input sequence. > > I also believe that one of the reasons that my users like my pop up calendar > > is because it also displays appointments and blocked off dates for that user > > and other office staff (selected in multiselect list). It can be popped by > keyboard or by doubleclick and can be navigated by mouse or cursor or page > keys (for months) and you can tab into a year textbox. The months are each > on a tab wtih Alt-character navigation and cursoring down past the end of > one month moves to the next month (and up to previous). Finally, the Enter > keys accepts the date, sets the source textbox and dismisses the calendar > and the Escape key dismisses the calendar without setting or changing a > date. > > I am a firm believer in always providing a keyboard navigation method, but > that never precludes adding a mouse alternative that does exactly the same > thing. A pop up calendar can be entirely keyboard controlled at a cost of a > > few extra keystrokes for the rich graphical information that it can present. > > And just because it's there doesn't mean a user ever has to use it. It > just turns out that my experience is that they will even though I have a > prejudice for preferring to use the keyboard wherever possible. I suspect > this prejudice afflicts most programmers. > > If only browers were more keyboard friendly. > > > Ciao > J?rgen Welz > Edmonton, Alberta > jwelz at hotmail.com > > > > > > >From: Brett Barabash > > > >I bet the data entry people love you! > > > >It may "work for you", but I'll bet that there are some users out there > >that > >feel otherwise. One of my biggest UI pet peeves is fields that disallow > >keyboard entry. One record or 1000 records, it's still annoying to move > >your hand off of the home row of your keyboard and click around to select a > >date. > > > > > >-----Original Message----- > >From: Heenan, Lambert [mailto:Lambert.Heenan at aig.com] > >Sent: Wednesday, March 17, 2004 8:22 AM > >To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' > >Subject: RE: [AccessD] Short Date Input Mask question > > > > > >My solution to date entry is simple - I never let user's type in a date. > >They always pick the date from a simple calendar form (though I don't use > >the MS Calendar control). Click on a date field and up pops the date > >picker. > >While this would not be suitable, perhaps, in applications where massive > >numbers of dates need to be entered, I find it works just fine for me. > > > >Lambert > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > From: Arthur Fuller [SMTP:artful at rogers.com] > > > Sent: Tuesday, March 16, 2004 5:47 PM > > > To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' > > > Subject: [AccessD] Short Date Input Mask question > > > > > > The standard short date input mask (99/99/0000;0;_) has a shortcoming > > > that I hate: you have to type 04/04/04 to get April 4th 2004. The year > > > handling is nice but the month and day suck. The mask won't let you type > > > 4/4/04. Is there an alternative mask that will respond intelligently to > > > such input? Or should I instead just remove all the input masks from all > > > the date fields? > > > > > > TIA, > > > Arthur > > _________________________________________________________________ > > -------------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------------------ > The information in this email may contain confidential information that > is legally privileged. The information is only for the use of the intended > recipient(s) named above. If you are not the intended recipient(s), you > are hereby notified that any disclosure, copying, distribution, or the taking > of any action in regard to the content of this fax is strictly prohibited. If > transmission is incorrect, unclear, or incomplete, please notify the sender > immediately. The authorized recipient(s) of this information is/are prohibited > from disclosing this information to any other party and is/are required to > destroy the information after its stated need has been fulfilled. > > Any views expressed in this message are those of the individual > sender, except where the sender specifies and with authority, > states them to be the views of Tappe Construction Co. > > This footer also confirms that this email message has been scanned > for the presence of computer viruses.Scanning of this message and > addition of this footer is performed by SurfControl E-mail Filter software > in conjunction with virus detection software. > > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From KIsmert at TexasSystems.com Thu Mar 18 11:33:27 2004 From: KIsmert at TexasSystems.com (Ken Ismert) Date: Thu, 18 Mar 2004 11:33:27 -0600 Subject: [AccessD] Re: [Private] Framework Discussion - Dependent Objects In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <011201c40d0f$1fb76640$2a3ca8c0@TEXASSYSTEMS.COM> John, Sorry for the delay in responding ... I was out sick. >Would you work with me offline to define this framework interface class and >show me how to Implement that in all of my framework classes? When it comes >to defining interfaces I will take all the help I can get. Yes, let's do some work together. Email me offline. -Ken From DWUTKA at marlow.com Thu Mar 18 11:33:22 2004 From: DWUTKA at marlow.com (DWUTKA at marlow.com) Date: Thu, 18 Mar 2004 11:33:22 -0600 Subject: [AccessD] Terminal Server and Access XP Message-ID: <2F8793082E00D4119A1700B0D0216BF80222798C@main2.marlow.com> Aha. If you gave them Admin rights, and still didn't work, I think you just found the problem. It sounds like Office/Access was installed for all users. It's been a LONG time since I have had to mess with Terminal Server, but it sounds like you installed it as the Admin, which means there are files that are available only too the Admin user. The TS help files should give a good step by step of how to install a software package for all users to use. Drew -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Lonnie Johnson Sent: Thursday, March 18, 2004 8:25 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] Terminal Server and Access XP We gave them power user rights, still couldn't run the code. We gave them administrator rights, still couldn't run the code. Our guts are hurting now. DWUTKA at marlow.com wrote: If it works logged in as an Admin, then it's a permissions issue. Are the logged in users 'power users'? Drew -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Lonnie Johnson Sent: Tuesday, March 16, 2004 7:04 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] Terminal Server and Access XP Nope. I was kinda hoping there was. It works if we log onto the terminal server as administrator, but not as a regular user. Would this be at the registry level? DWUTKA at marlow.com wrote:Any missing references? Drew -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Lonnie Johnson Sent: Monday, March 15, 2004 3:56 PM To: 'MS-ACCESS-L at lists.missouri.edu'; AccessDevelopers; ms_access; AccessD solving' Subject: [AccessD] Terminal Server and Access XP Users are getting a "Run-Time error 13, type mis match" when the application tries to cycle through some controls with the following: Dim ctl as Control For Each ctl in Me.Controls... This works fine in A97 and XP on regular machines. It even works for the administrator on a terminal server machine, but not regular users on terminal server. Anyone have a clue????????? Lonnie Johnson ProDev, Professional Development of MS Access Databases Visit me at ==> http://www.prodev.us Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Mail - More reliable, more storage, less spam -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com Lonnie Johnson ProDev, Professional Development of MS Access Databases Visit me at ==> http://www.prodev.us Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Mail - More reliable, more storage, less spam -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com Lonnie Johnson ProDev, Professional Development of MS Access Databases Visit me at ==> http://www.prodev.us Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Mail - More reliable, more storage, less spam -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From HollisVJ at pgdp.usec.com Thu Mar 18 11:48:41 2004 From: HollisVJ at pgdp.usec.com (Hollis,Virginia) Date: Thu, 18 Mar 2004 11:48:41 -0600 Subject: [AccessD] Sending Preformatted Emails Message-ID: <618EB4D6DDCDD3119B0A00508B6FD37A0CB0D36F@cntexchange.pgdp.usec.com> Ok, I get several different errors depending on what action I perform first & last. But it is not consistent. If I send an email & try to send it again it will create the second email. If I create the email & do not send, I get "The SendObject action was canceled". If I go to a new record, enter another request, After I canceled the first email from the previous record, I get "The SendObject action was canceled", but sometimes I get "Can't find the field "Form" referred to in your expression". One time, not sure what I did to get this error, "reserved error". Virginia -----Original Message----- From: Gustav Brock [mailto:gustav at cactus.dk] Sent: Thursday, March 18, 2004 11:23 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Sending Preformatted Emails Hi Virginia Try commenting out this: ' On Error Resume Next and watch if something happens. /gustav -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From HollisVJ at pgdp.usec.com Thu Mar 18 11:54:56 2004 From: HollisVJ at pgdp.usec.com (Hollis,Virginia) Date: Thu, 18 Mar 2004 11:54:56 -0600 Subject: [AccessD] Sending Preformatted Emails Message-ID: <618EB4D6DDCDD3119B0A00508B6FD37A0CB0D375@cntexchange.pgdp.usec.com> I seem to get the "Can't find the field "Form" referred to in your expression", if I close the form, re-open, enter the data, & try to send another email. I have to exit completely out of the database to resend an email. This time I entered a request, sent the email, tried resending several times - that worked. Went to a new record, entered data, but when I tried to send the email, I got "Reserved error". Any ideas? Virginia -----Original Message----- From: Hollis,Virginia Sent: Thursday, March 18, 2004 11:49 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: [AccessD] Sending Preformatted Emails Ok, I get several different errors depending on what action I perform first & last. But it is not consistent. If I send an email & try to send it again it will create the second email. If I create the email & do not send, I get "The SendObject action was canceled". If I go to a new record, enter another request, After I canceled the first email from the previous record, I get "The SendObject action was canceled", but sometimes I get "Can't find the field "Form" referred to in your expression". One time, not sure what I did to get this error, "reserved error". Virginia -----Original Message----- From: Gustav Brock [mailto:gustav at cactus.dk] Sent: Thursday, March 18, 2004 11:23 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Sending Preformatted Emails Hi Virginia Try commenting out this: ' On Error Resume Next and watch if something happens. /gustav -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From HollisVJ at pgdp.usec.com Thu Mar 18 12:02:51 2004 From: HollisVJ at pgdp.usec.com (Hollis,Virginia) Date: Thu, 18 Mar 2004 12:02:51 -0600 Subject: [AccessD] RE: Hyperlink Field Message-ID: <618EB4D6DDCDD3119B0A00508B6FD37A0CB0D376@cntexchange.pgdp.usec.com> Now the million dollar question - what if the users have changed their properties to Start of Field? -----Original Message----- From: Bryan Carbonnell [mailto:Bryan_Carbonnell at cbc.ca] Sent: Thursday, March 18, 2004 9:17 AM To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: RE: [AccessD] RE: Hyperlink Field Glad that was it. Bryan Carbonnell bryan_carbonnell at cbc.ca >>> HollisVJ at pgdp.usec.com 18-Mar-04 10:13:54 AM >>> Give the man a beer!! He did it. Virginia -----Original Message----- From: Bryan Carbonnell [mailto:Bryan_Carbonnell at cbc.ca] Sent: Thursday, March 18, 2004 8:54 AM To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: RE: [AccessD] RE: Hyperlink Field Virginia, Under Tools|Options|Keyboard tab What is selected in the Behaviour entereing field frame? I would bet that it is NOT Select Entire field. Switch it to Select Entire Field, and try that. I think that might "fix" the problem. -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From Bryan_Carbonnell at cbc.ca Thu Mar 18 12:31:37 2004 From: Bryan_Carbonnell at cbc.ca (Bryan Carbonnell) Date: Thu, 18 Mar 2004 13:31:37 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] RE: Hyperlink Field Message-ID: Beat them into submission?? OK, since that would be too welcome :) how about in your statup code: Application.GetOption("Behavior Entering Field") = 0 and in your shut down code Application.GetOption("Behavior Entering Field") = _ What_Ever_The_Users_Original_Value_Was_That_You_Remebered_To_Stored_Right_? Bryan Carbonnell bryan_carbonnell at cbc.ca >>> HollisVJ at pgdp.usec.com 18-Mar-04 1:02:51 PM >>> Now the million dollar question - what if the users have changed their properties to Start of Field? -----Original Message----- From: Bryan Carbonnell [mailto:Bryan_Carbonnell at cbc.ca] Sent: Thursday, March 18, 2004 9:17 AM To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: RE: [AccessD] RE: Hyperlink Field Glad that was it. Bryan Carbonnell bryan_carbonnell at cbc.ca >>> HollisVJ at pgdp.usec.com 18-Mar-04 10:13:54 AM >>> Give the man a beer!! He did it. Virginia -----Original Message----- From: Bryan Carbonnell [mailto:Bryan_Carbonnell at cbc.ca] Sent: Thursday, March 18, 2004 8:54 AM To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: RE: [AccessD] RE: Hyperlink Field Virginia, Under Tools|Options|Keyboard tab What is selected in the Behaviour entereing field frame? I would bet that it is NOT Select Entire field. Switch it to Select Entire Field, and try that. I think that might "fix" the problem. -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From rl_stewart at highstream.net Thu Mar 18 13:21:53 2004 From: rl_stewart at highstream.net (Robert L. Stewart) Date: Thu, 18 Mar 2004 13:21:53 -0600 Subject: [AccessD] Re: Hyperlink Field In-Reply-To: <200403181800.i2II0JM23254@databaseadvisors.com> Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20040318131705.02acd340@pop3.highstream.net> I finally remembered what I used a hyperlink capable label for. I was linking to external images (jpgs) and wanted a "link" to them so I stored the path in the db and set the hyperlink address property in code. So Virginia, I mislead you, but I also know that you have a good answer from one of the other listers. I hate getting old :-() They say memory is the first thing to go. I cannot remember what the second thing was! Robert At 12:00 PM 3/18/2004 -0600, you wrote: >Date: Thu, 18 Mar 2004 11:04:55 -0600 >From: "Robert L. Stewart" >Subject: [AccessD] Re: Re: Hyperlink Field >To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com >Cc: stuart at lexacorp.com.pg >Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20040318110136.02ad3800 at pop3.highstream.net> >Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed > >Stuart, > >Try Hyperlink Address and Hyperlink subaddress >properties for a label. Access 97, 2000, 2002, >2003 > >After looking at what she asked closer, I >think all she needs to do is add a hyperlink >datatype column to her table. > >Robert > >At 08:34 AM 3/18/2004 -0600, you wrote: > >Message: 5 > >Date: Thu, 18 Mar 2004 08:12:52 +1000 > >From: "Stuart McLachlan" > >Subject: Re: [AccessD] Re: Hyperlink Field > >To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > > > >Message-ID: <40595A04.4146.19A0E9 at localhost> > >Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII > > > >On 17 Mar 2004 at 15:53, Robert L. Stewart wrote: > > > > > Virginia, > > > > > > The trick is that a label has the hyperlink > > > property and not a text box. Use a label > > > and set the properties for it in code. > > > > > > > > > >Not in any version of Access I've ever seen. > > > >The "Is hyperlink" property is the last one in the "Format" tab of > >the textbox "Properties" dialog. > From dwaters at usinternet.com Thu Mar 18 13:25:01 2004 From: dwaters at usinternet.com (Dan Waters) Date: Thu, 18 Mar 2004 13:25:01 -0600 Subject: [AccessD] OT Wrist/Arm Pain - was Short Date Input Mask quest ion In-Reply-To: <14139151.1079627698922.JavaMail.root@sniper.marix.com> Message-ID: <000501c40d1e$b5ffd9c0$de1811d8@DanWaters> Gee Charlotte! I LOVE split keyboards! I just keep my elbows resting on the arms of my chair next to my side, my wrists stay straight, and all works fine. It is really interesting to learn how many different specific solutions people have come up with to solve these RSI problems. Dan -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Charlotte Foust Sent: Thursday, March 18, 2004 10:28 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] OT Wrist/Arm Pain - was Short Date Input Mask quest ion I've never had wrist problems from typing, only from reaching out and up to use the mouse. A keyboard shelf with and articlating mouse shelf puts the mouse level with the wrist rest for the keyboard, and I haven't had any problems since. PS/ I *hate* split keyboards and those ergonomic nightmares. I CANNOT type with my elbows stuck out like open doors! Charlotte Foust -----Original Message----- From: Dan Waters [mailto:dwaters at usinternet.com] Sent: Thursday, March 18, 2004 6:34 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: [AccessD] OT Wrist/Arm Pain - was Short Date Input Mask quest ion For me two things have eliminated all wrist pain. First is that I try to use a split keyboard as much as possible. This lets my wrists stay straight while typing. It took me about 2 weeks to get used to it. Second is that I use a very lightweight mouse. I'm currently using a Fellowes Mini Web Pro, which only weighs 2 or 3 ounces. Before doing the two things above, I occasionally had to stop for several hours due to wrist pain, but not any more! Most of my work is typing text/code and creating forms and reports. Dan -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of rusty.hammond at cpiqpc.com Sent: Wednesday, March 17, 2004 1:30 PM To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: RE: [AccessD] OT Wrist/Arm Pain - was Short Date Input Mask quest ion I've switched my mouse to left handed at work as well. What has really helped the most for me is a quick set of wrist excercises I do each morning. Takes about 2 minutes to do. -----Original Message----- From: Porter, Mark [mailto:MPorter at acsalaska.com] Sent: Wednesday, March 17, 2004 1:09 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: [AccessD] Short Date Input Mask question My solution for wrist/arm pain was to learn to use the mouse left-handed. Back when I was working and consulting in the evenings, I would use the left hand at work and right hand in the evenings. Now I just switch off. Nothing but occasional soreness now and again for the last 4 years. Mark > -----Original Message----- > From: Charlotte Foust [mailto:cfoust at infostatsystems.com] > Sent: Wednesday, March 17, 2004 8:38 AM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: RE: [AccessD] Short Date Input Mask question > > > Hah! I got tendonitis in my thumb using a trackball. Had to > go back to > a mouse. That just shows that there is no single right answer. :-} > > Charlotte Foust > > -----Original Message----- > From: William Hindman [mailto:wdhindman at bellsouth.net] > Sent: Wednesday, March 17, 2004 9:25 AM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: Re: [AccessD] Short Date Input Mask question > > > ...shortcut keys/number pad activate each calendar function > ...and I've > got every client converted to trackballs instead of mice ...I used to > have severe CTS using a mouse but since moving to trackballs I've been > symptom free :) > > William Hindman > You know the world is upside down when Bill Clinton wins a Grammy and > Janet Jackson is the subject of a government sex investigation. Argus > Hamilton. > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Heenan, Lambert" > To: "'Access Developers discussion and problem solving'" > > Sent: Wednesday, March 17, 2004 10:52 AM > Subject: RE: [AccessD] Short Date Input Mask question > > > > Bryan, > > > > Point taken. This was why I made the comment about mass > data input. In > point > > of fact it is possible, though a bit clunky, to select a > date with the > > > keyboard, and I should perhaps revisit the design on the > form to make > > it easier to do so. > > > > RSI is a serious problem, and I sympathize with your for having to > > deal > with > > it. However it's not confined to mouse use, indeed I > remember it first > being > > reported back in the 80's before mice very prevalent. In those days > > the blame was laid at the door of the extreme ease with > which computer > keyboards > > operated vs. manual typewriters. This allowed for very rapid > > keystrokes, which was thought to be the root cause of RSI. > > > > I also see people who have bizarre ideas about how they should > > position their keyboards and mice. In short there are lots > of factors > > involved, and at the end of the day the user has to figure out the > > best way to use the d*mned machines. So, to reiterate, I think I'll > > take the time to redesign > my > > date picker form to allow for better keyboard use of it. > > > > Lambert > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > From: Bryan Carbonnell [SMTP:Bryan_Carbonnell at cbc.ca] > > > Sent: Wednesday, March 17, 2004 9:52 AM > > > To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com > > > Subject: RE: [AccessD] Short Date Input Mask question > > > > > > Lambert, > > > > > > It may work fine for you, but does it work for your users? Do you > > > force them to use the mouse to select the date, or can they do > > > everything they need to from the keyboard? > > > > > > The only reason I bring this up is that I have had RSI > from moving > > > between the mouse and keyboard for data entry too much. It got to > > > the point where by 10 AM I could not feel my little > finger and half > > > of my lower arm becaude of it. > > > > > > As soon as I got one application that I used on a regular > basis more > > > > keyboard friendly it helped. > > > > > > Just try to keep that in mind. I know I always do. I let > users use > > > the mouse or enter with the keyboard. Their choice. > > > > > > Bryan Carbonnell > > > bryan_carbonnell at cbc.ca > > > > > > > > > >>> Lambert.Heenan at AIG.com 17-Mar-04 9:21:45 AM >>> > > > My solution to date entry is simple - I never let user's > type in a > > > date. They always pick the date from a simple calendar > form (though > > > I don't use > > > the MS Calendar control). Click on a date field and up > pops the date > > > picker. > > > While this would not be suitable, perhaps, in applications where > > > massive numbers of dates need to be entered, I find it works just > > > fine for > me. > > > > > > Lambert > > > > > > -- > > > _______________________________________________ > > > AccessD mailing list > > > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > > > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > -- > > _______________________________________________ > > AccessD mailing list > > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > ************************************************************************ **** ******* 17/3/2004 This transmittal may contain confidential information intended solely for the addressee. 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ACS -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From HollisVJ at pgdp.usec.com Thu Mar 18 13:42:51 2004 From: HollisVJ at pgdp.usec.com (Hollis,Virginia) Date: Thu, 18 Mar 2004 13:42:51 -0600 Subject: [AccessD] RE: Hyperlink Field Message-ID: <618EB4D6DDCDD3119B0A00508B6FD37A0CB0D378@cntexchange.pgdp.usec.com> I get the error: RunTime error 424, Object Required. on Application.GetOption("Behavior Entering Field") = 0 Is there a list of all the properties you can set at StartUp? I have searched Unhelp several times but can never find anything. Virginia -----Original Message----- From: Bryan Carbonnell [mailto:Bryan_Carbonnell at cbc.ca] Sent: Thursday, March 18, 2004 12:32 PM To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: RE: [AccessD] RE: Hyperlink Field Beat them into submission?? OK, since that would be too welcome :) how about in your statup code: Application.GetOption("Behavior Entering Field") = 0 and in your shut down code Application.GetOption("Behavior Entering Field") = _ What_Ever_The_Users_Original_Value_Was_That_You_Remebered_To_Stored_Right_? Bryan Carbonnell bryan_carbonnell at cbc.ca >>> HollisVJ at pgdp.usec.com 18-Mar-04 1:02:51 PM >>> Now the million dollar question - what if the users have changed their properties to Start of Field? -----Original Message----- From: Bryan Carbonnell [mailto:Bryan_Carbonnell at cbc.ca] Sent: Thursday, March 18, 2004 9:17 AM To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: RE: [AccessD] RE: Hyperlink Field Glad that was it. Bryan Carbonnell bryan_carbonnell at cbc.ca >>> HollisVJ at pgdp.usec.com 18-Mar-04 10:13:54 AM >>> Give the man a beer!! He did it. Virginia -----Original Message----- From: Bryan Carbonnell [mailto:Bryan_Carbonnell at cbc.ca] Sent: Thursday, March 18, 2004 8:54 AM To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: RE: [AccessD] RE: Hyperlink Field Virginia, Under Tools|Options|Keyboard tab What is selected in the Behaviour entereing field frame? I would bet that it is NOT Select Entire field. Switch it to Select Entire Field, and try that. I think that might "fix" the problem. -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From Bryan_Carbonnell at cbc.ca Thu Mar 18 14:10:28 2004 From: Bryan_Carbonnell at cbc.ca (Bryan Carbonnell) Date: Thu, 18 Mar 2004 15:10:28 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Cascading Combos Message-ID: I'm stuck and need some help. I think I've been thinking and working on this problem too long. I can't see what I'm missing. I have 3 tables: tblIncident ----------- IncidentID (AutoNum PK) IncidentReasonID_FK (Long) .... tblReason ---------- ReasonID (AutoNum PK) ReasonDescription (Text) ReasonTypeID_FK (Long) ReasonDiscontinued (Boolean) tblReasonType --------------- ReasonTypeID (AutoNum PK) ReasonTypeDescription (Text) ReasonTypeDiscontinued (Boolean) tblIncident is a 1-M with tblReason on ReasonID_FK=ReasonID tblReason is a M-1 with tblReasonType one ReasonTypeID_FK=ReasonTypeID What I am trying to do is create cascading combos on an edit only form. No additions or deletions. Just editing The form is based on a query that pulls the data from tblIncident cboReasonType is the ReasonType and is not bound bboReason is Limited to only those Reasons that have a ReasonTypeID_FK = cboReasonType and is bound to IncidentReasonID_FK So Far So good. Now I have cboReasonType's rowsource to be a query that includes all of the ReasonTypes (SELECT ReasonTypeID, ReasonTypeDescription, ReasonTypeDiscontinued FROM tblReasonType;) cboReason's rowsource is a query with the SQL "SELECT ReasonID, ReasonType_FK, ReasonDescription, ReasonDiscontinued FROM tblReason;" In the Current Event of the forms I have: 'Set the Reason Type cboReasonType = cboReason.Column(1) So as I navigate to the various records, I get the value of the RecordType Combo correct. Now, as soon as I try to change the rowsource of cboReason to filter based on cboReasonType ("SELECT ReasonID, ReasonType_FK, ReasonDescription, ReasonDiscontinued FROM tblReason WHERE (tblReason.ReasonType_FK=[Forms]![sfmEditIncidentDetails]![cboReasonType]);") I end up with blanks in both cboReason and cboReasonType. What am I missing? Is it that cboReason's RowSource is dependant on cboReasonType's value, which is in turn based on cboReason's value? If that is the problem, and now that I have typed this all out, I think it is, how the heck do I make it do what I want?? Thanks, Bryan Carbonnell bryan_carbonnell at cbc.ca From Bryan_Carbonnell at cbc.ca Thu Mar 18 14:15:14 2004 From: Bryan_Carbonnell at cbc.ca (Bryan Carbonnell) Date: Thu, 18 Mar 2004 15:15:14 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] RE: Hyperlink Field Message-ID: OOPS!!! To set the value Application.SetOption "Behavior Entering Field", 0 To get the value; SomeVariable = Application.GetOption("Behavior Entering Field") If there is a list, I have NO idea where it was. This was just a guess of the name based on something I stumbled on in the UnHelp file. But I did test it slightly to make sure it was the right guess :) Bryan Carbonnell bryan_carbonnell at cbc.ca >>> HollisVJ at pgdp.usec.com 18-Mar-04 2:42:51 PM >>> I get the error: RunTime error 424, Object Required. on Application.GetOption("Behavior Entering Field") = 0 Is there a list of all the properties you can set at StartUp? I have searched Unhelp several times but can never find anything. Virginia -----Original Message----- From: Bryan Carbonnell [mailto:Bryan_Carbonnell at cbc.ca] Sent: Thursday, March 18, 2004 12:32 PM To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: RE: [AccessD] RE: Hyperlink Field Beat them into submission?? OK, since that would be too welcome :) how about in your statup code: Application.GetOption("Behavior Entering Field") = 0 and in your shut down code Application.GetOption("Behavior Entering Field") = _ What_Ever_The_Users_Original_Value_Was_That_You_Remebered_To_Stored_Right_? Bryan Carbonnell bryan_carbonnell at cbc.ca >>> HollisVJ at pgdp.usec.com 18-Mar-04 1:02:51 PM >>> Now the million dollar question - what if the users have changed their properties to Start of Field? -----Original Message----- From: Bryan Carbonnell [mailto:Bryan_Carbonnell at cbc.ca] Sent: Thursday, March 18, 2004 9:17 AM To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: RE: [AccessD] RE: Hyperlink Field Glad that was it. Bryan Carbonnell bryan_carbonnell at cbc.ca >>> HollisVJ at pgdp.usec.com 18-Mar-04 10:13:54 AM >>> Give the man a beer!! He did it. Virginia -----Original Message----- From: Bryan Carbonnell [mailto:Bryan_Carbonnell at cbc.ca] Sent: Thursday, March 18, 2004 8:54 AM To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: RE: [AccessD] RE: Hyperlink Field Virginia, Under Tools|Options|Keyboard tab What is selected in the Behaviour entereing field frame? I would bet that it is NOT Select Entire field. Switch it to Select Entire Field, and try that. I think that might "fix" the problem. -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From thevigil at kabelfoon.nl Thu Mar 18 14:14:20 2004 From: thevigil at kabelfoon.nl (Bert-Jan Brinkhuis) Date: Thu, 18 Mar 2004 21:14:20 +0100 Subject: [AccessD] Strange results with simple calculation on a form References: <000f01c40c73$f596f560$214e2d3e@jester> <1048451652.20040318111843@cactus.dk> Message-ID: <007901c40d25$bb0478c0$1a4e2d3e@jester> Gustav, thanks for your answer. I keep forgetting textboxes only contain text... i think i will forget it this time again... ;-) The maximum is 2 decimals so that is no problem. But since the differences was at the 15th decimal (although i only tested this 1 time...) I decide to add round([calculation];2) in the total field. I think this is ok because i know only numers with 2 decimals are entered.... Bert-Jan ----- Original Message ----- From: "Gustav Brock" To: "Access Developers discussion and problem solving" Sent: Thursday, March 18, 2004 11:18 AM Subject: Re: [AccessD] Strange results with simple calculation on a form > Hi Bert-Jan > > Welcome back. > > Unbound textboxes contain text no matter how you format them. > And decimals may not be exact Doubles and indeed not Singles. > > If you can accept a maximum of four decimals, use CCur(txtYourTextbox) > to convert to Currency before doing any calculation or comparison. > Else use CDbl() and compare to a max. tolerance of your choice: > > If Abs(dblTotal - dblAmount) < 1E-7 Then > ' Values are equal. > End If > > /gustav > > > > Hi all, > > > i was forced to unsubscribe a while ago because i couldn't keep up with you > > and all the messages... ;-) > > > But today a strange thing happened i had to ask you all about. I didn't do a > > big search on the internet, but searched the accessd archives and didn't > > find it. It maybe is a well known problem, but here it goes..... > > > I have an unbound form where users will type amounts. All the txtboxes' > > format are set to "standard" and the decimal places is set to 2. And i check > > on the before_update event of these txtboxes if there are more then 2 > > decimals, if so, cancel = true. There is an calculated total control > > (txtTotal) wich has a controlsource like =[txtbox1]+[txtbox2] and so on (in > > total 12 txtboxes) > > These txtboxes are used to 'split up' the amount in another txtbox. > > (txtAmount) > > > Before saving i check if txtAmount = txtTotal. When no decimals are used > > there is no problem, if there are only used decimals in 1 txtbox there is no > > problem. But if there are used decimals in more txtboxes access will tell me > > the values are not the same..... although the same values are shown... it > > turns out there is a difference of: 0.00000000000000710542735!!!!!! > > (debug.print told me this!) > > > When i use the same 'function' in VBA it works fine with the same > > values....???? > > > So it is not a real problem, but it IS something strange... wel to me it > > is.... > > > Thanks in advance. > > > Hope to keep up with you this time... ;-) > > > Bert-Jan > > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From thevigil at kabelfoon.nl Thu Mar 18 14:18:47 2004 From: thevigil at kabelfoon.nl (Bert-Jan Brinkhuis) Date: Thu, 18 Mar 2004 21:18:47 +0100 Subject: [AccessD] excell's split box in access form SOLVED (i hope) References: <001501c40c74$f30be840$214e2d3e@jester> Message-ID: <008001c40d26$3ec913a0$1a4e2d3e@jester> Hi, i was playing with this idea for some time today and decided to use an activeX control for the first time! ;-) I placed an activeX horizontal scrollbar on my form. On some event of the scrollbar (by head i do not remember the event, but that is not important.) On that event i change the rowsources of textboxes acording to what they have to move, with the scrollbar.value i know at which point the scrollbar is, so values move from left to right or the other way depending on which way i move the scrollbar. So far it works. But i hope the performance will stay ok if i add the textboxes i need to add. Especially when they invlove calculations and table access through DAO. Bert-Jan ----- Original Message ----- From: "Bert-Jan Brinkhuis" To: Sent: Thursday, March 18, 2004 12:09 AM Subject: [AccessD] excell's split box in access form > Hi, > > does anyone know how to make an excell like vertical split box in access? > > Bert-Jan > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From Bryan_Carbonnell at cbc.ca Thu Mar 18 14:26:18 2004 From: Bryan_Carbonnell at cbc.ca (Bryan Carbonnell) Date: Thu, 18 Mar 2004 15:26:18 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] RE: Hyperlink Field Message-ID: Man this is just NOT my day!!! > If there is a list, I have NO idea where it was. I went looking for something else in the UnHelpful file and guess what I found. In the Answer Wizard type: Set Options from Visual Basic The list is the second topic listed. Bryan Carbonnell bryan_carbonnell at cbc.ca >>> Bryan_Carbonnell at cbc.ca 18-Mar-04 3:15:14 PM >>> OOPS!!! To set the value Application.SetOption "Behavior Entering Field", 0 To get the value; SomeVariable = Application.GetOption("Behavior Entering Field") If there is a list, I have NO idea where it was. This was just a guess of the name based on something I stumbled on in the UnHelp file. But I did test it slightly to make sure it was the right guess :) Bryan Carbonnell bryan_carbonnell at cbc.ca >>> HollisVJ at pgdp.usec.com 18-Mar-04 2:42:51 PM >>> I get the error: RunTime error 424, Object Required. on Application.GetOption("Behavior Entering Field") = 0 Is there a list of all the properties you can set at StartUp? I have searched Unhelp several times but can never find anything. From my.lists at verizon.net Thu Mar 18 14:44:51 2004 From: my.lists at verizon.net (Francisco H Tapia) Date: Thu, 18 Mar 2004 12:44:51 -0800 Subject: [AccessD] OT Wrist/Arm Pain - was Short Date Input Mask quest ion In-Reply-To: <000501c40d1e$b5ffd9c0$de1811d8@DanWaters> References: <000501c40d1e$b5ffd9c0$de1811d8@DanWaters> Message-ID: <405A0A43.4030007@verizon.net> I found that rather interesting as well, for me I do the obligatory stretch at the beginning of the day and at break time. I found the most successful device to reduce the pain was a trackball mouse, so much that I bought one for home... the idea is that you MUST place it in a very comfortable location on your desk/keyboard shelf... At my job sometimes i get a chance to work from home, I end up VNCing (telecommuting to work.) but getting a chance to work on an ergonomic desk/keyboard/mouse is a very nice benny :) -- -Francisco Dan Waters wrote: >Gee Charlotte! I LOVE split keyboards! I just keep my elbows resting on >the arms of my chair next to my side, my wrists stay straight, and all works >fine. > >It is really interesting to learn how many different specific solutions >people have come up with to solve these RSI problems. > >Dan > >-----Original Message----- >From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com >[mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Charlotte Foust >Sent: Thursday, March 18, 2004 10:28 AM >To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving >Subject: RE: [AccessD] OT Wrist/Arm Pain - was Short Date Input Mask quest >ion > >I've never had wrist problems from typing, only from reaching out and up >to use the mouse. A keyboard shelf with and articlating mouse shelf >puts the mouse level with the wrist rest for the keyboard, and I haven't >had any problems since. > >PS/ I *hate* split keyboards and those ergonomic nightmares. I CANNOT >type with my elbows stuck out like open doors! > >Charlotte Foust > >-----Original Message----- >From: Dan Waters [mailto:dwaters at usinternet.com] >Sent: Thursday, March 18, 2004 6:34 AM >To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' >Subject: RE: [AccessD] OT Wrist/Arm Pain - was Short Date Input Mask >quest ion > > >For me two things have eliminated all wrist pain. > >First is that I try to use a split keyboard as much as possible. This >lets my wrists stay straight while typing. It took me about 2 weeks to >get used to it. > >Second is that I use a very lightweight mouse. I'm currently using a >Fellowes Mini Web Pro, which only weighs 2 or 3 ounces. > >Before doing the two things above, I occasionally had to stop for >several hours due to wrist pain, but not any more! > >Most of my work is typing text/code and creating forms and reports. > >Dan > > >-----Original Message----- >From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com >[mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of >rusty.hammond at cpiqpc.com >Sent: Wednesday, March 17, 2004 1:30 PM >To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com >Subject: RE: [AccessD] OT Wrist/Arm Pain - was Short Date Input Mask >quest ion > >I've switched my mouse to left handed at work as well. What has really >helped the most for me is a quick set of wrist excercises I do each >morning. Takes about 2 minutes to do. > >-----Original Message----- >From: Porter, Mark [mailto:MPorter at acsalaska.com] >Sent: Wednesday, March 17, 2004 1:09 PM >To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' >Subject: RE: [AccessD] Short Date Input Mask question > > >My solution for wrist/arm pain was to learn to use the mouse >left-handed. Back when I was working and consulting in the evenings, I >would use the left hand at work and right hand in the evenings. > >Now I just switch off. Nothing but occasional soreness now and again >for the last 4 years. > >Mark > > > >>-----Original Message----- >>From: Charlotte Foust [mailto:cfoust at infostatsystems.com] >>Sent: Wednesday, March 17, 2004 8:38 AM >>To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving >>Subject: RE: [AccessD] Short Date Input Mask question >> >> >>Hah! I got tendonitis in my thumb using a trackball. Had to >>go back to >>a mouse. That just shows that there is no single right answer. :-} >> >>Charlotte Foust >> >>-----Original Message----- >>From: William Hindman [mailto:wdhindman at bellsouth.net] >>Sent: Wednesday, March 17, 2004 9:25 AM >>To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving >>Subject: Re: [AccessD] Short Date Input Mask question >> >> >>...shortcut keys/number pad activate each calendar function >>...and I've >>got every client converted to trackballs instead of mice ...I used to >>have severe CTS using a mouse but since moving to trackballs I've been >>symptom free :) >> >>William Hindman >>You know the world is upside down when Bill Clinton wins a Grammy and >>Janet Jackson is the subject of a government sex investigation. Argus >>Hamilton. >> >> >>----- Original Message ----- >>From: "Heenan, Lambert" >>To: "'Access Developers discussion and problem solving'" >> >>Sent: Wednesday, March 17, 2004 10:52 AM >>Subject: RE: [AccessD] Short Date Input Mask question >> >> >> >> >>>Bryan, >>> >>>Point taken. This was why I made the comment about mass >>> >>> >>data input. In >>point >> >> >>>of fact it is possible, though a bit clunky, to select a >>> >>> >>date with the >> >> >> >>>keyboard, and I should perhaps revisit the design on the >>> >>> >>form to make >> >> >>>it easier to do so. >>> >>>RSI is a serious problem, and I sympathize with your for having to >>>deal >>> >>> >>with >> >> >>>it. However it's not confined to mouse use, indeed I >>> >>> >>remember it first >>being >> >> >>>reported back in the 80's before mice very prevalent. In those days >>>the blame was laid at the door of the extreme ease with >>> >>> >>which computer >>keyboards >> >> >>>operated vs. manual typewriters. This allowed for very rapid >>>keystrokes, which was thought to be the root cause of RSI. >>> >>>I also see people who have bizarre ideas about how they should >>>position their keyboards and mice. In short there are lots >>> >>> >>of factors >> >> >>>involved, and at the end of the day the user has to figure out the >>>best way to use the d*mned machines. So, to reiterate, I think I'll >>>take the time to redesign >>> >>> >>my >> >> >>>date picker form to allow for better keyboard use of it. >>> >>>Lambert >>> >>> >>> >>>>-----Original Message----- >>>>From: Bryan Carbonnell [SMTP:Bryan_Carbonnell at cbc.ca] >>>>Sent: Wednesday, March 17, 2004 9:52 AM >>>>To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com >>>>Subject: RE: [AccessD] Short Date Input Mask question >>>> >>>>Lambert, >>>> >>>>It may work fine for you, but does it work for your users? Do you >>>>force them to use the mouse to select the date, or can they do >>>>everything they need to from the keyboard? >>>> >>>>The only reason I bring this up is that I have had RSI >>>> >>>> >>from moving >> >> >>>>between the mouse and keyboard for data entry too much. It got to >>>>the point where by 10 AM I could not feel my little >>>> >>>> >>finger and half >> >> >>>>of my lower arm becaude of it. >>>> >>>>As soon as I got one application that I used on a regular >>>> >>>> >>basis more >> >> >> >>>>keyboard friendly it helped. >>>> >>>>Just try to keep that in mind. I know I always do. I let >>>> >>>> >>users use >> >> >>>>the mouse or enter with the keyboard. Their choice. >>>> >>>>Bryan Carbonnell >>>>bryan_carbonnell at cbc.ca >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>>>>>Lambert.Heenan at AIG.com 17-Mar-04 9:21:45 AM >>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>My solution to date entry is simple - I never let user's >>>> >>>> >>type in a >> >> >>>>date. They always pick the date from a simple calendar >>>> >>>> >>form (though >> >> >>>>I don't use >>>>the MS Calendar control). Click on a date field and up >>>> >>>> >>pops the date >> >> >>>>picker. >>>>While this would not be suitable, perhaps, in applications where >>>>massive numbers of dates need to be entered, I find it works just >>>>fine for >>>> >>>> >>me. >> >> >>>>Lambert >>>> >>>> >>>> From davesharpe2 at cox.net Thu Mar 18 14:45:44 2004 From: davesharpe2 at cox.net (Dave Sharpe) Date: Thu, 18 Mar 2004 15:45:44 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] zip/unzip References: Message-ID: <005201c40d29$fc1cc2a0$dd2f0a44@bcsext6137> John Have You been to http://www.vbaccelerator.com/home/VB/Code/Libraries/Compression/Unzipping_Files/article.asp ? It looks like the files are available there. Dave ----- Original Message ----- From: "John W. Colby" To: "AccessD" Sent: Thursday, March 18, 2004 10:35 AM Subject: [AccessD] zip/unzip I have always used the zip / unzip classes from Steve McMahon: ' Name: vbAccelerator cUnzip class ' Author: Steve McMahon (steve at vbaccelerator.com) ' Date: 1 January 2000 ' ' Requires: Info-ZIP's Zip32.DLL v2.32, renamed to vbzip10.dll ' mZip.bas ' which requires vbzip10.dll which I have managed to lose. I downloaded the zipped dlls but neither one will register on two computers at my office. Does anyone have these files you could email to me? Thanks, John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com Thu Mar 18 14:49:01 2004 From: jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com (John W. Colby) Date: Thu, 18 Mar 2004 15:49:01 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] zip/unzip In-Reply-To: Message-ID: yes, the zip and unzip dlls. Thanks. John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of John Bartow Sent: Thursday, March 18, 2004 11:05 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] zip/unzip Hi John, Do you just need the vbzip10.dll file? I can send it offline. John B. -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of John W. Colby Sent: Thursday, March 18, 2004 9:35 AM To: AccessD Subject: [AccessD] zip/unzip I have always used the zip / unzip classes from Steve McMahon: ' Name: vbAccelerator cUnzip class ' Author: Steve McMahon (steve at vbaccelerator.com) ' Date: 1 January 2000 ' ' Requires: Info-ZIP's Zip32.DLL v2.32, renamed to vbzip10.dll ' mZip.bas ' which requires vbzip10.dll which I have managed to lose. I downloaded the zipped dlls but neither one will register on two computers at my office. Does anyone have these files you could email to me? Thanks, John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From cfoust at infostatsystems.com Thu Mar 18 15:04:01 2004 From: cfoust at infostatsystems.com (Charlotte Foust) Date: Thu, 18 Mar 2004 13:04:01 -0800 Subject: [AccessD] OT Wrist/Arm Pain - was Short Date Input Mask quest ion Message-ID: I keep my elbows at my side and my wrists straight on a standard keyboard. All I need is a wrist support. I hate the elbows on the arm of the chair position for typing. DSFDF :-} Charlotte Foust -----Original Message----- From: Dan Waters [mailto:dwaters at usinternet.com] Sent: Thursday, March 18, 2004 11:25 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: [AccessD] OT Wrist/Arm Pain - was Short Date Input Mask quest ion Gee Charlotte! I LOVE split keyboards! I just keep my elbows resting on the arms of my chair next to my side, my wrists stay straight, and all works fine. It is really interesting to learn how many different specific solutions people have come up with to solve these RSI problems. Dan -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Charlotte Foust Sent: Thursday, March 18, 2004 10:28 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] OT Wrist/Arm Pain - was Short Date Input Mask quest ion I've never had wrist problems from typing, only from reaching out and up to use the mouse. A keyboard shelf with and articlating mouse shelf puts the mouse level with the wrist rest for the keyboard, and I haven't had any problems since. PS/ I *hate* split keyboards and those ergonomic nightmares. I CANNOT type with my elbows stuck out like open doors! Charlotte Foust -----Original Message----- From: Dan Waters [mailto:dwaters at usinternet.com] Sent: Thursday, March 18, 2004 6:34 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: [AccessD] OT Wrist/Arm Pain - was Short Date Input Mask quest ion For me two things have eliminated all wrist pain. First is that I try to use a split keyboard as much as possible. This lets my wrists stay straight while typing. It took me about 2 weeks to get used to it. Second is that I use a very lightweight mouse. I'm currently using a Fellowes Mini Web Pro, which only weighs 2 or 3 ounces. Before doing the two things above, I occasionally had to stop for several hours due to wrist pain, but not any more! Most of my work is typing text/code and creating forms and reports. Dan -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of rusty.hammond at cpiqpc.com Sent: Wednesday, March 17, 2004 1:30 PM To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: RE: [AccessD] OT Wrist/Arm Pain - was Short Date Input Mask quest ion I've switched my mouse to left handed at work as well. What has really helped the most for me is a quick set of wrist excercises I do each morning. Takes about 2 minutes to do. -----Original Message----- From: Porter, Mark [mailto:MPorter at acsalaska.com] Sent: Wednesday, March 17, 2004 1:09 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: [AccessD] Short Date Input Mask question My solution for wrist/arm pain was to learn to use the mouse left-handed. Back when I was working and consulting in the evenings, I would use the left hand at work and right hand in the evenings. Now I just switch off. Nothing but occasional soreness now and again for the last 4 years. Mark > -----Original Message----- > From: Charlotte Foust [mailto:cfoust at infostatsystems.com] > Sent: Wednesday, March 17, 2004 8:38 AM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: RE: [AccessD] Short Date Input Mask question > > > Hah! I got tendonitis in my thumb using a trackball. Had to go back > to a mouse. That just shows that there is no single right answer. :-} > > Charlotte Foust > > -----Original Message----- > From: William Hindman [mailto:wdhindman at bellsouth.net] > Sent: Wednesday, March 17, 2004 9:25 AM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: Re: [AccessD] Short Date Input Mask question > > > ...shortcut keys/number pad activate each calendar function ...and > I've got every client converted to trackballs instead of mice ...I > used to have severe CTS using a mouse but since moving to trackballs > I've been symptom free :) > > William Hindman > You know the world is upside down when Bill Clinton wins a Grammy and > Janet Jackson is the subject of a government sex investigation. Argus > Hamilton. > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Heenan, Lambert" > To: "'Access Developers discussion and problem solving'" > > Sent: Wednesday, March 17, 2004 10:52 AM > Subject: RE: [AccessD] Short Date Input Mask question > > > > Bryan, > > > > Point taken. This was why I made the comment about mass > data input. In > point > > of fact it is possible, though a bit clunky, to select a > date with the > > > keyboard, and I should perhaps revisit the design on the > form to make > > it easier to do so. > > > > RSI is a serious problem, and I sympathize with your for having to > > deal > with > > it. However it's not confined to mouse use, indeed I > remember it first > being > > reported back in the 80's before mice very prevalent. In those days > > the blame was laid at the door of the extreme ease with > which computer > keyboards > > operated vs. manual typewriters. This allowed for very rapid > > keystrokes, which was thought to be the root cause of RSI. > > > > I also see people who have bizarre ideas about how they should > > position their keyboards and mice. In short there are lots > of factors > > involved, and at the end of the day the user has to figure out the > > best way to use the d*mned machines. So, to reiterate, I think I'll > > take the time to redesign > my > > date picker form to allow for better keyboard use of it. > > > > Lambert > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > From: Bryan Carbonnell [SMTP:Bryan_Carbonnell at cbc.ca] > > > Sent: Wednesday, March 17, 2004 9:52 AM > > > To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com > > > Subject: RE: [AccessD] Short Date Input Mask question > > > > > > Lambert, > > > > > > It may work fine for you, but does it work for your users? Do you > > > force them to use the mouse to select the date, or can they do > > > everything they need to from the keyboard? > > > > > > The only reason I bring this up is that I have had RSI > from moving > > > between the mouse and keyboard for data entry too much. It got to > > > the point where by 10 AM I could not feel my little > finger and half > > > of my lower arm becaude of it. > > > > > > As soon as I got one application that I used on a regular > basis more > > > > keyboard friendly it helped. > > > > > > Just try to keep that in mind. I know I always do. I let > users use > > > the mouse or enter with the keyboard. Their choice. > > > > > > Bryan Carbonnell > > > bryan_carbonnell at cbc.ca > > > > > > > > > >>> Lambert.Heenan at AIG.com 17-Mar-04 9:21:45 AM >>> > > > My solution to date entry is simple - I never let user's > type in a > > > date. They always pick the date from a simple calendar > form (though > > > I don't use > > > the MS Calendar control). Click on a date field and up > pops the date > > > picker. > > > While this would not be suitable, perhaps, in applications where > > > massive numbers of dates need to be entered, I find it works just > > > fine for > me. > > > > > > Lambert > > > > > > -- > > > _______________________________________________ > > > AccessD mailing list > > > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > > > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > -- > > _______________________________________________ > > AccessD mailing list > > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > ************************************************************************ **** ******* 17/3/2004 This transmittal may contain confidential information intended solely for the addressee. 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ACS -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From john at winhaven.net Thu Mar 18 15:15:34 2004 From: john at winhaven.net (John Bartow) Date: Thu, 18 Mar 2004 15:15:34 -0600 Subject: [AccessD] zip/unzip In-Reply-To: Message-ID: sent it direct HTH JB -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of John W. Colby Sent: Thursday, March 18, 2004 2:49 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] zip/unzip yes, the zip and unzip dlls. Thanks. John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com From mikedorism at adelphia.net Thu Mar 18 15:23:45 2004 From: mikedorism at adelphia.net (Mike & Doris Manning) Date: Thu, 18 Mar 2004 16:23:45 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Cascading Combos In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <000001c40d2f$4b90c7a0$6ae44344@hargrove.internal> Now, as soon as I try to change the rowsource of cboReason to filter based on cboReasonType ("SELECT ReasonID, ReasonType_FK, ReasonDescription, ReasonDiscontinued FROM tblReason WHERE (tblReason.ReasonType_FK=[Forms]![sfmEditIncidentDetails]![cboReasonType]);" ) I end up with blanks in both cboReason and cboReasonType. What am I missing? You are missing the fact that you referred to the form inside the quotes instead of outside. Try... "SELECT ReasonID, ReasonType_FK, ReasonDescription, ReasonDiscontinued FROM tblReason WHERE(tblReason.ReasonType_FK=" & [Forms]![sfmEditIncidentDetails]![cboReasonType]) Doris Manning Database Administrator Hargrove Inc. www.hargroveinc.com -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Bryan Carbonnell Sent: Thursday, March 18, 2004 3:10 PM To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: [AccessD] Cascading Combos I'm stuck and need some help. I think I've been thinking and working on this problem too long. I can't see what I'm missing. I have 3 tables: tblIncident ----------- IncidentID (AutoNum PK) IncidentReasonID_FK (Long) .... tblReason ---------- ReasonID (AutoNum PK) ReasonDescription (Text) ReasonTypeID_FK (Long) ReasonDiscontinued (Boolean) tblReasonType --------------- ReasonTypeID (AutoNum PK) ReasonTypeDescription (Text) ReasonTypeDiscontinued (Boolean) tblIncident is a 1-M with tblReason on ReasonID_FK=ReasonID tblReason is a M-1 with tblReasonType one ReasonTypeID_FK=ReasonTypeID What I am trying to do is create cascading combos on an edit only form. No additions or deletions. Just editing The form is based on a query that pulls the data from tblIncident cboReasonType is the ReasonType and is not bound bboReason is Limited to only those Reasons that have a ReasonTypeID_FK = cboReasonType and is bound to IncidentReasonID_FK So Far So good. Now I have cboReasonType's rowsource to be a query that includes all of the ReasonTypes (SELECT ReasonTypeID, ReasonTypeDescription, ReasonTypeDiscontinued FROM tblReasonType;) cboReason's rowsource is a query with the SQL "SELECT ReasonID, ReasonType_FK, ReasonDescription, ReasonDiscontinued FROM tblReason;" In the Current Event of the forms I have: 'Set the Reason Type cboReasonType = cboReason.Column(1) So as I navigate to the various records, I get the value of the RecordType Combo correct. Now, as soon as I try to change the rowsource of cboReason to filter based on cboReasonType ("SELECT ReasonID, ReasonType_FK, ReasonDescription, ReasonDiscontinued FROM tblReason WHERE (tblReason.ReasonType_FK=[Forms]![sfmEditIncidentDetails]![cboReasonType]);" ) I end up with blanks in both cboReason and cboReasonType. What am I missing? Is it that cboReason's RowSource is dependant on cboReasonType's value, which is in turn based on cboReason's value? If that is the problem, and now that I have typed this all out, I think it is, how the heck do I make it do what I want?? Thanks, Bryan Carbonnell bryan_carbonnell at cbc.ca -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From dmcafee at pacbell.net Thu Mar 18 15:33:17 2004 From: dmcafee at pacbell.net (David McAfee (Home)) Date: Thu, 18 Mar 2004 13:33:17 -0800 Subject: [AccessD] Cascading Combos In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Why not set the rowsource of the second combobox on enter? cbo2ndBox_OnEnter() me.cbo2ndBox.rowsource = "Select fields from table where foreignKey = " & me.cbo1stBox.column(0) End sub then on enter or after update of cbo1, clear cbo2 me.cbo2ndBox = null -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Bryan Carbonnell Sent: Thursday, March 18, 2004 12:10 PM To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: [AccessD] Cascading Combos I'm stuck and need some help. I think I've been thinking and working on this problem too long. I can't see what I'm missing. I have 3 tables: tblIncident ----------- IncidentID (AutoNum PK) IncidentReasonID_FK (Long) .... tblReason ---------- ReasonID (AutoNum PK) ReasonDescription (Text) ReasonTypeID_FK (Long) ReasonDiscontinued (Boolean) tblReasonType --------------- ReasonTypeID (AutoNum PK) ReasonTypeDescription (Text) ReasonTypeDiscontinued (Boolean) tblIncident is a 1-M with tblReason on ReasonID_FK=ReasonID tblReason is a M-1 with tblReasonType one ReasonTypeID_FK=ReasonTypeID What I am trying to do is create cascading combos on an edit only form. No additions or deletions. Just editing The form is based on a query that pulls the data from tblIncident cboReasonType is the ReasonType and is not bound bboReason is Limited to only those Reasons that have a ReasonTypeID_FK = cboReasonType and is bound to IncidentReasonID_FK So Far So good. Now I have cboReasonType's rowsource to be a query that includes all of the ReasonTypes (SELECT ReasonTypeID, ReasonTypeDescription, ReasonTypeDiscontinued FROM tblReasonType;) cboReason's rowsource is a query with the SQL "SELECT ReasonID, ReasonType_FK, ReasonDescription, ReasonDiscontinued FROM tblReason;" In the Current Event of the forms I have: 'Set the Reason Type cboReasonType = cboReason.Column(1) So as I navigate to the various records, I get the value of the RecordType Combo correct. Now, as soon as I try to change the rowsource of cboReason to filter based on cboReasonType ("SELECT ReasonID, ReasonType_FK, ReasonDescription, ReasonDiscontinued FROM tblReason WHERE (tblReason.ReasonType_FK=[Forms]![sfmEditIncidentDetails]![cboReasonType]);" ) I end up with blanks in both cboReason and cboReasonType. What am I missing? Is it that cboReason's RowSource is dependant on cboReasonType's value, which is in turn based on cboReason's value? If that is the problem, and now that I have typed this all out, I think it is, how the heck do I make it do what I want?? Thanks, Bryan Carbonnell bryan_carbonnell at cbc.ca From dmcafee at pacbell.net Thu Mar 18 15:36:44 2004 From: dmcafee at pacbell.net (David McAfee (Home)) Date: Thu, 18 Mar 2004 13:36:44 -0800 Subject: [AccessD] OT Wrist/Arm Pain - was Short Date Input Mask quest ion In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Dan, she got mad because someone made fun of her when typing on a split keyboard. They said she looked like she was doing the chicken dance with her elbows out there like open doors :P Who hurt you Charlotte? :) (Is it Friday yet?) D -----Original Message----- From: Dan Waters [mailto:dwaters at usinternet.com] Sent: Thursday, March 18, 2004 11:25 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: [AccessD] OT Wrist/Arm Pain - was Short Date Input Mask quest ion Gee Charlotte! I LOVE split keyboards! I just keep my elbows resting on the arms of my chair next to my side, my wrists stay straight, and all works fine. It is really interesting to learn how many different specific solutions people have come up with to solve these RSI problems. Dan -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Charlotte Foust Sent: Thursday, March 18, 2004 10:28 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] OT Wrist/Arm Pain - was Short Date Input Mask quest ion I've never had wrist problems from typing, only from reaching out and up to use the mouse. A keyboard shelf with and articlating mouse shelf puts the mouse level with the wrist rest for the keyboard, and I haven't had any problems since. PS/ I *hate* split keyboards and those ergonomic nightmares. I CANNOT type with my elbows stuck out like open doors! Charlotte Foust From dwaters at usinternet.com Thu Mar 18 15:42:06 2004 From: dwaters at usinternet.com (Dan Waters) Date: Thu, 18 Mar 2004 15:42:06 -0600 Subject: [AccessD] OT Wrist/Arm Pain - was Short Date Input Mask quest ion In-Reply-To: <10426604.1079644246983.JavaMail.root@sniper.marix.com> Message-ID: <001601c40d31$dc14dd50$de1811d8@DanWaters> I can't figure it out! What is DSFDF? Tell me off-line if you need to! Dan -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Charlotte Foust Sent: Thursday, March 18, 2004 3:04 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] OT Wrist/Arm Pain - was Short Date Input Mask quest ion I keep my elbows at my side and my wrists straight on a standard keyboard. All I need is a wrist support. I hate the elbows on the arm of the chair position for typing. DSFDF :-} Charlotte Foust -----Original Message----- From: Dan Waters [mailto:dwaters at usinternet.com] Sent: Thursday, March 18, 2004 11:25 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: [AccessD] OT Wrist/Arm Pain - was Short Date Input Mask quest ion Gee Charlotte! I LOVE split keyboards! I just keep my elbows resting on the arms of my chair next to my side, my wrists stay straight, and all works fine. It is really interesting to learn how many different specific solutions people have come up with to solve these RSI problems. Dan -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Charlotte Foust Sent: Thursday, March 18, 2004 10:28 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] OT Wrist/Arm Pain - was Short Date Input Mask quest ion I've never had wrist problems from typing, only from reaching out and up to use the mouse. A keyboard shelf with and articlating mouse shelf puts the mouse level with the wrist rest for the keyboard, and I haven't had any problems since. PS/ I *hate* split keyboards and those ergonomic nightmares. I CANNOT type with my elbows stuck out like open doors! Charlotte Foust -----Original Message----- From: Dan Waters [mailto:dwaters at usinternet.com] Sent: Thursday, March 18, 2004 6:34 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: [AccessD] OT Wrist/Arm Pain - was Short Date Input Mask quest ion For me two things have eliminated all wrist pain. First is that I try to use a split keyboard as much as possible. This lets my wrists stay straight while typing. It took me about 2 weeks to get used to it. Second is that I use a very lightweight mouse. I'm currently using a Fellowes Mini Web Pro, which only weighs 2 or 3 ounces. Before doing the two things above, I occasionally had to stop for several hours due to wrist pain, but not any more! Most of my work is typing text/code and creating forms and reports. Dan -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of rusty.hammond at cpiqpc.com Sent: Wednesday, March 17, 2004 1:30 PM To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: RE: [AccessD] OT Wrist/Arm Pain - was Short Date Input Mask quest ion I've switched my mouse to left handed at work as well. What has really helped the most for me is a quick set of wrist excercises I do each morning. Takes about 2 minutes to do. -----Original Message----- From: Porter, Mark [mailto:MPorter at acsalaska.com] Sent: Wednesday, March 17, 2004 1:09 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: [AccessD] Short Date Input Mask question My solution for wrist/arm pain was to learn to use the mouse left-handed. Back when I was working and consulting in the evenings, I would use the left hand at work and right hand in the evenings. Now I just switch off. Nothing but occasional soreness now and again for the last 4 years. Mark > -----Original Message----- > From: Charlotte Foust [mailto:cfoust at infostatsystems.com] > Sent: Wednesday, March 17, 2004 8:38 AM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: RE: [AccessD] Short Date Input Mask question > > > Hah! I got tendonitis in my thumb using a trackball. Had to go back > to a mouse. That just shows that there is no single right answer. :-} > > Charlotte Foust > > -----Original Message----- > From: William Hindman [mailto:wdhindman at bellsouth.net] > Sent: Wednesday, March 17, 2004 9:25 AM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: Re: [AccessD] Short Date Input Mask question > > > ...shortcut keys/number pad activate each calendar function ...and > I've got every client converted to trackballs instead of mice ...I > used to have severe CTS using a mouse but since moving to trackballs > I've been symptom free :) > > William Hindman > You know the world is upside down when Bill Clinton wins a Grammy and > Janet Jackson is the subject of a government sex investigation. Argus > Hamilton. > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Heenan, Lambert" > To: "'Access Developers discussion and problem solving'" > > Sent: Wednesday, March 17, 2004 10:52 AM > Subject: RE: [AccessD] Short Date Input Mask question > > > > Bryan, > > > > Point taken. This was why I made the comment about mass > data input. In > point > > of fact it is possible, though a bit clunky, to select a > date with the > > > keyboard, and I should perhaps revisit the design on the > form to make > > it easier to do so. > > > > RSI is a serious problem, and I sympathize with your for having to > > deal > with > > it. However it's not confined to mouse use, indeed I > remember it first > being > > reported back in the 80's before mice very prevalent. In those days > > the blame was laid at the door of the extreme ease with > which computer > keyboards > > operated vs. manual typewriters. This allowed for very rapid > > keystrokes, which was thought to be the root cause of RSI. > > > > I also see people who have bizarre ideas about how they should > > position their keyboards and mice. In short there are lots > of factors > > involved, and at the end of the day the user has to figure out the > > best way to use the d*mned machines. So, to reiterate, I think I'll > > take the time to redesign > my > > date picker form to allow for better keyboard use of it. > > > > Lambert > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > From: Bryan Carbonnell [SMTP:Bryan_Carbonnell at cbc.ca] > > > Sent: Wednesday, March 17, 2004 9:52 AM > > > To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com > > > Subject: RE: [AccessD] Short Date Input Mask question > > > > > > Lambert, > > > > > > It may work fine for you, but does it work for your users? Do you > > > force them to use the mouse to select the date, or can they do > > > everything they need to from the keyboard? > > > > > > The only reason I bring this up is that I have had RSI > from moving > > > between the mouse and keyboard for data entry too much. It got to > > > the point where by 10 AM I could not feel my little > finger and half > > > of my lower arm becaude of it. > > > > > > As soon as I got one application that I used on a regular > basis more > > > > keyboard friendly it helped. > > > > > > Just try to keep that in mind. I know I always do. I let > users use > > > the mouse or enter with the keyboard. Their choice. > > > > > > Bryan Carbonnell > > > bryan_carbonnell at cbc.ca > > > > > > > > > >>> Lambert.Heenan at AIG.com 17-Mar-04 9:21:45 AM >>> > > > My solution to date entry is simple - I never let user's > type in a > > > date. They always pick the date from a simple calendar > form (though > > > I don't use > > > the MS Calendar control). Click on a date field and up > pops the date > > > picker. > > > While this would not be suitable, perhaps, in applications where > > > massive numbers of dates need to be entered, I find it works just > > > fine for > me. > > > > > > Lambert > > > > > > -- > > > _______________________________________________ > > > AccessD mailing list > > > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > > > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > -- > > _______________________________________________ > > AccessD mailing list > > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > ************************************************************************ **** ******* 17/3/2004 This transmittal may contain confidential information intended solely for the addressee. If you are not the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that you have received this transmittal in error; any review, dissemination, distribution or copying of this transmittal is strictly prohibited. If you have received this communication in error, please notify us immediately by reply or by telephone (collect at 907-564-1000) and ask to speak with the message sender. In addition, please immediately delete this message and all attachments. Thank you. ACS -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From cfoust at infostatsystems.com Thu Mar 18 15:44:29 2004 From: cfoust at infostatsystems.com (Charlotte Foust) Date: Thu, 18 Mar 2004 13:44:29 -0800 Subject: [AccessD] OT Wrist/Arm Pain - was Short Date Input Mask quest ion Message-ID: Grrrr! All right, the gloves are off! I'm sending for the Access enforcers, Fluffy and Fang, to come and break your legs! Charlotte Foust -----Original Message----- From: David McAfee (Home) [mailto:dmcafee at pacbell.net] Sent: Thursday, March 18, 2004 1:37 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] OT Wrist/Arm Pain - was Short Date Input Mask quest ion Dan, she got mad because someone made fun of her when typing on a split keyboard. They said she looked like she was doing the chicken dance with her elbows out there like open doors :P Who hurt you Charlotte? :) (Is it Friday yet?) D -----Original Message----- From: Dan Waters [mailto:dwaters at usinternet.com] Sent: Thursday, March 18, 2004 11:25 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: [AccessD] OT Wrist/Arm Pain - was Short Date Input Mask quest ion Gee Charlotte! I LOVE split keyboards! I just keep my elbows resting on the arms of my chair next to my side, my wrists stay straight, and all works fine. It is really interesting to learn how many different specific solutions people have come up with to solve these RSI problems. Dan -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Charlotte Foust Sent: Thursday, March 18, 2004 10:28 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] OT Wrist/Arm Pain - was Short Date Input Mask quest ion I've never had wrist problems from typing, only from reaching out and up to use the mouse. A keyboard shelf with and articlating mouse shelf puts the mouse level with the wrist rest for the keyboard, and I haven't had any problems since. PS/ I *hate* split keyboards and those ergonomic nightmares. I CANNOT type with my elbows stuck out like open doors! Charlotte Foust -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From KIsmert at TexasSystems.com Thu Mar 18 15:50:00 2004 From: KIsmert at TexasSystems.com (Ken Ismert) Date: Thu, 18 Mar 2004 15:50:00 -0600 Subject: [AccessD] OT Wrist/Arm Pain - was Short Date Input Mask quest ion In-Reply-To: <000501c40d1e$b5ffd9c0$de1811d8@DanWaters> Message-ID: <014301c40d32$f7159850$2a3ca8c0@TEXASSYSTEMS.COM> Charlotte, > I CANNOT type with my elbows stuck out like open doors! Because of my, ummm, pastry habit, that's increasingly my only option! -Ken PS. I use Left-handed Kensington Expert Mouse w/Ergospace wrist rest, and a Datadesk Smartboard. Not perfect, but good enough. From jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com Thu Mar 18 15:53:29 2004 From: jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com (John W. Colby) Date: Thu, 18 Mar 2004 16:53:29 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] zip/unzip In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Thanks. It seems I have some problem. Whenever I try and register either of these things I get the error: "VBuzip10.dll was loaded but the dllRegisterServer entry point was not found." "DllRegisterServer may not be exported or a corrupt version of vbuzip10.dll may be in memory. Consider using PView to detect and remove it." On the other hand I try to register the vbeerrorhandler.dll from DatabaseAdvisor's web site and that registers flawlessly. I'm at a bit of a loss here. Is the dll I am trying to register bad? Do I have something in my registry that is bad and prevents correctly registering the vbunzip dll? PITA for sure! John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of John Bartow Sent: Thursday, March 18, 2004 4:16 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] zip/unzip sent it direct HTH JB -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of John W. Colby Sent: Thursday, March 18, 2004 2:49 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] zip/unzip yes, the zip and unzip dlls. Thanks. John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From Paul.Millard at freight.fedex.com Thu Mar 18 16:01:40 2004 From: Paul.Millard at freight.fedex.com (Millard, Paul --- Sr. Developer Analyst ---WGO) Date: Thu, 18 Mar 2004 14:01:40 -0800 Subject: [AccessD] Connect to DB2 Message-ID: <67B2D43A2067B248A36B007650A2312C35F886@PSJOE2K1.fxfwest.freight.fedex.com> Folks, Can anyone help me connect to a db2 database. I've seen multiple ways to connect using OLEDB Connection strings but I'm not sure what the database name and format should be. Below is a QMF SQL query tool .ini file used to connect to the database. If anyone can provide the string along with exact values based upon info below that would be great. Thanks, Paul [Server Parameters] Server1=HOST Server2=HOSTDSNB [HOST] RDBName=AFDSNP CollectionName=QMFWIN HostName=AFW1.HRO.AF.COM Port=446 SymDestName=*TCP/IP* DefaultSchedule1=Y00000078000003840009601710000012C000000000000000000020000000007FDFFFE00002710XX DefaultSchedule2=@ 0000000000000000 DefaultSchedule3=2 DefaultSchedule4= QueryBlockSize=32500 DecimalDelimiter=Period StringDelimiter=Apostrophe IsolationLevel=CursorStability BindReplace=1 BindKeep=1 BindOwner= xSingleCCSID=37 xMixedCCSID=0 xDoubleCCSID=0 xQMFCCSID=37 [HOSTDSNB] RDBName=AFDSNT CollectionName=QMFWIN HostName=AFW2.HRO.AF.COM Port=5030 SymDestName=*TCP/IP* DefaultSchedule1=Y00000078000003840009601710000012C000000000000000000020000000007FDFFFE00002710XX DefaultSchedule2=@ 0000000000000000 DefaultSchedule3=2 DefaultSchedule4= QueryBlockSize=32500 DecimalDelimiter=Period StringDelimiter=Apostrophe IsolationLevel=CursorStability BindReplace=1 BindKeep=1 BindOwner= xSingleCCSID=37 xMixedCCSID=0 xDoubleCCSID=0 xQMFCCSID=37 ********************************************************** This message contains information that is confidential and proprietary to FedEx Freight or its affiliates. It is intended only for the recipient named and for the express purpose(s) described therein. Any other use is prohibited. **************************************************************** From Lambert.Heenan at AIG.com Thu Mar 18 16:05:12 2004 From: Lambert.Heenan at AIG.com (Heenan, Lambert) Date: Thu, 18 Mar 2004 17:05:12 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] zip/unzip Message-ID: <8B98F8EA48F8BA47A2F24E0D0AF40CF407AD7FDE@xlivmbx12.aig.com> Check the web site again. I think I saw mention of the fact that these DLL's were plain vanilla, not OCX DLL's and so the do not need to be registered - just drop them into %systemroot%\system32 or the applications home folder. Lambert > -----Original Message----- > From: John W. Colby [SMTP:jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com] > Sent: Thursday, March 18, 2004 4:53 PM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: RE: [AccessD] zip/unzip > > Thanks. It seems I have some problem. Whenever I try and register either > of > these things I get the error: > > "VBuzip10.dll was loaded but the dllRegisterServer entry point was not > found." > "DllRegisterServer may not be exported or a corrupt version of > vbuzip10.dll > may be in memory. Consider using PView to detect and remove it." > > On the other hand I try to register the vbeerrorhandler.dll from > DatabaseAdvisor's web site and that registers flawlessly. > > I'm at a bit of a loss here. Is the dll I am trying to register bad? Do > I > have something in my registry that is bad and prevents correctly > registering > the vbunzip dll? > > PITA for sure! > > John W. Colby > www.ColbyConsulting.com > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of John Bartow > Sent: Thursday, March 18, 2004 4:16 PM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: RE: [AccessD] zip/unzip > > > sent it direct > > HTH > > JB > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of John W. Colby > Sent: Thursday, March 18, 2004 2:49 PM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: RE: [AccessD] zip/unzip > > > yes, the zip and unzip dlls. Thanks. > > John W. Colby > www.ColbyConsulting.com > > > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From john at winhaven.net Thu Mar 18 16:08:15 2004 From: john at winhaven.net (John Bartow) Date: Thu, 18 Mar 2004 16:08:15 -0600 Subject: [AccessD] zip/unzip In-Reply-To: Message-ID: John, Send me which OS and the command you're using and I will give it a try here. I do not have the dlls registered on any of my currently running workstations. John -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of John W. Colby Sent: Thursday, March 18, 2004 3:53 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] zip/unzip Thanks. It seems I have some problem. Whenever I try and register either of these things I get the error: "VBuzip10.dll was loaded but the dllRegisterServer entry point was not found." "DllRegisterServer may not be exported or a corrupt version of vbuzip10.dll may be in memory. Consider using PView to detect and remove it." On the other hand I try to register the vbeerrorhandler.dll from DatabaseAdvisor's web site and that registers flawlessly. I'm at a bit of a loss here. Is the dll I am trying to register bad? Do I have something in my registry that is bad and prevents correctly registering the vbunzip dll? PITA for sure! John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of John Bartow Sent: Thursday, March 18, 2004 4:16 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] zip/unzip sent it direct HTH JB -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of John W. Colby Sent: Thursday, March 18, 2004 2:49 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] zip/unzip yes, the zip and unzip dlls. Thanks. John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From BBarabash at TappeConstruction.com Thu Mar 18 16:10:00 2004 From: BBarabash at TappeConstruction.com (Brett Barabash) Date: Thu, 18 Mar 2004 16:10:00 -0600 Subject: [AccessD] zip/unzip Message-ID: <426071E0B0A6D311B3C0006008B0AB23AFE43C@TAPPEEXCH01> John, vbuzip10.dll is not an ActiveX DLL, so there is no need to register it. http://www.vbaccelerator.com/home/VB/Utilities/VBPZip/article.asp -----Original Message----- From: John W. Colby [mailto:jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com] Sent: Thursday, March 18, 2004 3:53 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] zip/unzip --------------Please open with care!------------ This message has bypassed some of our spam filtering rules. This message was scanned for viruses and executable code has been stripped. --------------------------------------------------------------- Thanks. It seems I have some problem. Whenever I try and register either of these things I get the error: "VBuzip10.dll was loaded but the dllRegisterServer entry point was not found." "DllRegisterServer may not be exported or a corrupt version of vbuzip10.dll may be in memory. Consider using PView to detect and remove it." On the other hand I try to register the vbeerrorhandler.dll from DatabaseAdvisor's web site and that registers flawlessly. I'm at a bit of a loss here. Is the dll I am trying to register bad? Do I have something in my registry that is bad and prevents correctly registering the vbunzip dll? PITA for sure! John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of John Bartow Sent: Thursday, March 18, 2004 4:16 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] zip/unzip sent it direct HTH JB -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of John W. Colby Sent: Thursday, March 18, 2004 2:49 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] zip/unzip yes, the zip and unzip dlls. Thanks. John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com -------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- The information in this email may contain confidential information that is legally privileged. The information is only for the use of the intended recipient(s) named above. If you are not the intended recipient(s), you are hereby notified that any disclosure, copying, distribution, or the taking of any action in regard to the content of this fax is strictly prohibited. If transmission is incorrect, unclear, or incomplete, please notify the sender immediately. The authorized recipient(s) of this information is/are prohibited from disclosing this information to any other party and is/are required to destroy the information after its stated need has been fulfilled. Any views expressed in this message are those of the individual sender, except where the sender specifies and with authority, states them to be the views of Tappe Construction Co. This footer also confirms that this email message has been scanned for the presence of computer viruses.Scanning of this message and addition of this footer is performed by SurfControl E-mail Filter software in conjunction with virus detection software. From john at winhaven.net Thu Mar 18 16:10:49 2004 From: john at winhaven.net (John Bartow) Date: Thu, 18 Mar 2004 16:10:49 -0600 Subject: [AccessD] zip/unzip In-Reply-To: <8B98F8EA48F8BA47A2F24E0D0AF40CF407AD7FDE@xlivmbx12.aig.com> Message-ID: Ah, that jiggles some demagnetized memory bits! I think thats the ticket, John -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Heenan, Lambert Sent: Thursday, March 18, 2004 4:05 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: [AccessD] zip/unzip Check the web site again. I think I saw mention of the fact that these DLL's were plain vanilla, not OCX DLL's and so the do not need to be registered - just drop them into %systemroot%\system32 or the applications home folder. Lambert > -----Original Message----- > From: John W. Colby [SMTP:jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com] > Sent: Thursday, March 18, 2004 4:53 PM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: RE: [AccessD] zip/unzip > > Thanks. It seems I have some problem. Whenever I try and register either > of > these things I get the error: > > "VBuzip10.dll was loaded but the dllRegisterServer entry point was not > found." > "DllRegisterServer may not be exported or a corrupt version of > vbuzip10.dll > may be in memory. Consider using PView to detect and remove it." > > On the other hand I try to register the vbeerrorhandler.dll from > DatabaseAdvisor's web site and that registers flawlessly. > > I'm at a bit of a loss here. Is the dll I am trying to register bad? Do > I > have something in my registry that is bad and prevents correctly > registering > the vbunzip dll? > > PITA for sure! > > John W. Colby > www.ColbyConsulting.com > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of John Bartow > Sent: Thursday, March 18, 2004 4:16 PM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: RE: [AccessD] zip/unzip > > > sent it direct > > HTH > > JB > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of John W. Colby > Sent: Thursday, March 18, 2004 2:49 PM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: RE: [AccessD] zip/unzip > > > yes, the zip and unzip dlls. Thanks. > > John W. Colby > www.ColbyConsulting.com > > > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From Subscriptions at servicexp.com Thu Mar 18 16:34:41 2004 From: Subscriptions at servicexp.com (Robert Gracie) Date: Thu, 18 Mar 2004 17:34:41 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] zip/unzip In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Hmmm, I have the same exact problem on my system, and Access 2K or 2K2 will not allow me to reference the .dll.. Robert Gracie www.servicexp.com -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of John W. Colby Sent: Thursday, March 18, 2004 4:53 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] zip/unzip Thanks. It seems I have some problem. Whenever I try and register either of these things I get the error: "VBuzip10.dll was loaded but the dllRegisterServer entry point was not found." "DllRegisterServer may not be exported or a corrupt version of vbuzip10.dll may be in memory. Consider using PView to detect and remove it." On the other hand I try to register the vbeerrorhandler.dll from DatabaseAdvisor's web site and that registers flawlessly. I'm at a bit of a loss here. Is the dll I am trying to register bad? Do I have something in my registry that is bad and prevents correctly registering the vbunzip dll? PITA for sure! John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of John Bartow Sent: Thursday, March 18, 2004 4:16 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] zip/unzip sent it direct HTH JB -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of John W. Colby Sent: Thursday, March 18, 2004 2:49 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] zip/unzip yes, the zip and unzip dlls. Thanks. John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From Subscriptions at servicexp.com Thu Mar 18 16:37:00 2004 From: Subscriptions at servicexp.com (Robert Gracie) Date: Thu, 18 Mar 2004 17:37:00 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] IsEncrypted Function?? In-Reply-To: <405A2801.28617.33E411A@localhost> Message-ID: Ah, of course no simple solution... Thanks for your help everyone... Robert Gracie www.servicexp.com -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Stuart McLachlan Sent: Thursday, March 18, 2004 7:52 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] IsEncrypted Function?? > I'm sorry.... A file and or a string....... > > Robert Gracie > www.servicexp.com > > > > > > > Does anyone have an IsEncrypted Function I can use? > > > > > To test whether *what* is encrypted? > What encryption scheme. There's no way to look at a string and say whether it is encrypted or not unless you know what sort of encrytion scheme is used or have an idea of what the original was. Sometimes not even then. Here are two strings: "ABC" "NOP". One is ROT13 encrypted. Which one? Depends on whether the original string was "ABC" or "NOP" :-) -- Lexacorp Ltd http://www.lexacorp.com.pg Information Technology Consultancy, Software Development,System Support. -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com Thu Mar 18 17:29:25 2004 From: jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com (John W. Colby) Date: Thu, 18 Mar 2004 18:29:25 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] zip/unzip In-Reply-To: Message-ID: I put them in System32 and the app page faults and closes Access if I try and run the zip stuff/ -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of John Bartow Sent: Thursday, March 18, 2004 5:11 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] zip/unzip Ah, that jiggles some demagnetized memory bits! I think thats the ticket, John -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Heenan, Lambert Sent: Thursday, March 18, 2004 4:05 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: [AccessD] zip/unzip Check the web site again. I think I saw mention of the fact that these DLL's were plain vanilla, not OCX DLL's and so the do not need to be registered - just drop them into %systemroot%\system32 or the applications home folder. Lambert > -----Original Message----- > From: John W. Colby [SMTP:jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com] > Sent: Thursday, March 18, 2004 4:53 PM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: RE: [AccessD] zip/unzip > > Thanks. It seems I have some problem. Whenever I try and register either > of > these things I get the error: > > "VBuzip10.dll was loaded but the dllRegisterServer entry point was not > found." > "DllRegisterServer may not be exported or a corrupt version of > vbuzip10.dll > may be in memory. Consider using PView to detect and remove it." > > On the other hand I try to register the vbeerrorhandler.dll from > DatabaseAdvisor's web site and that registers flawlessly. > > I'm at a bit of a loss here. Is the dll I am trying to register bad? Do > I > have something in my registry that is bad and prevents correctly > registering > the vbunzip dll? > > PITA for sure! > > John W. Colby > www.ColbyConsulting.com > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of John Bartow > Sent: Thursday, March 18, 2004 4:16 PM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: RE: [AccessD] zip/unzip > > > sent it direct > > HTH > > JB > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of John W. Colby > Sent: Thursday, March 18, 2004 2:49 PM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: RE: [AccessD] zip/unzip > > > yes, the zip and unzip dlls. Thanks. > > John W. Colby > www.ColbyConsulting.com > > > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From martyconnelly at shaw.ca Thu Mar 18 17:24:58 2004 From: martyconnelly at shaw.ca (MartyConnelly) Date: Thu, 18 Mar 2004 15:24:58 -0800 Subject: [AccessD] Connect to DB2 References: <67B2D43A2067B248A36B007650A2312C35F886@PSJOE2K1.fxfwest.freight.fedex.com> Message-ID: <405A2FCA.9080809@shaw.ca> Have a look through this site http://www.able-consulting.com/MDAC/ADO/Connection/OLEDB_Providers.htm#OLEDBProviderForDB2 Then check here since things like the rdbname change depending on whether you are going to VM, MVS, MVE or AS400 http://support.microsoft.com/default.aspx?scid=kb;EN-US;218590 I would try to create a blank .udl file in Notepad, save it , then open via explorer and select oledb for DB2, fill in the blanks test the connection when it works get the connection string out of the saved udl file. Millard, Paul --- Sr. Developer Analyst ---WGO wrote: >Folks, > >Can anyone help me connect to a db2 database. I've seen multiple ways to connect using OLEDB Connection strings but I'm not sure what the database name and format should be. Below is a QMF SQL query tool .ini file used to connect to the database. > >If anyone can provide the string along with exact values based upon info below that would be great. > >Thanks, >Paul > >[Server Parameters] >Server1=HOST >Server2=HOSTDSNB >[HOST] >RDBName=AFDSNP >CollectionName=QMFWIN >HostName=AFW1.HRO.AF.COM >Port=446 >SymDestName=*TCP/IP* >DefaultSchedule1=Y00000078000003840009601710000012C000000000000000000020000000007FDFFFE00002710XX >DefaultSchedule2=@ 0000000000000000 >DefaultSchedule3=2 >DefaultSchedule4= >QueryBlockSize=32500 >DecimalDelimiter=Period >StringDelimiter=Apostrophe >IsolationLevel=CursorStability >BindReplace=1 >BindKeep=1 >BindOwner= >xSingleCCSID=37 >xMixedCCSID=0 >xDoubleCCSID=0 >xQMFCCSID=37 >[HOSTDSNB] >RDBName=AFDSNT >CollectionName=QMFWIN >HostName=AFW2.HRO.AF.COM >Port=5030 >SymDestName=*TCP/IP* >DefaultSchedule1=Y00000078000003840009601710000012C000000000000000000020000000007FDFFFE00002710XX >DefaultSchedule2=@ 0000000000000000 >DefaultSchedule3=2 >DefaultSchedule4= >QueryBlockSize=32500 >DecimalDelimiter=Period >StringDelimiter=Apostrophe >IsolationLevel=CursorStability >BindReplace=1 >BindKeep=1 >BindOwner= >xSingleCCSID=37 >xMixedCCSID=0 >xDoubleCCSID=0 >xQMFCCSID=37 > > >********************************************************** >This message contains information that is confidential >and proprietary to FedEx Freight or its affiliates. >It is intended only for the recipient named and for >the express purpose(s) described therein. >Any other use is prohibited. >**************************************************************** > > > -- Marty Connelly Victoria, B.C. Canada From cfoust at infostatsystems.com Thu Mar 18 17:50:36 2004 From: cfoust at infostatsystems.com (Charlotte Foust) Date: Thu, 18 Mar 2004 15:50:36 -0800 Subject: [AccessD] OT Wrist/Arm Pain - was Short Date Input Mask quest ion Message-ID: Different strokes for different folks! Charlotte Foust -----Original Message----- From: Dan Waters [mailto:dwaters at usinternet.com] Sent: Thursday, March 18, 2004 1:42 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: [AccessD] OT Wrist/Arm Pain - was Short Date Input Mask quest ion I can't figure it out! What is DSFDF? Tell me off-line if you need to! Dan -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Charlotte Foust Sent: Thursday, March 18, 2004 3:04 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] OT Wrist/Arm Pain - was Short Date Input Mask quest ion I keep my elbows at my side and my wrists straight on a standard keyboard. All I need is a wrist support. I hate the elbows on the arm of the chair position for typing. DSFDF :-} Charlotte Foust -----Original Message----- From: Dan Waters [mailto:dwaters at usinternet.com] Sent: Thursday, March 18, 2004 11:25 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: [AccessD] OT Wrist/Arm Pain - was Short Date Input Mask quest ion Gee Charlotte! I LOVE split keyboards! I just keep my elbows resting on the arms of my chair next to my side, my wrists stay straight, and all works fine. It is really interesting to learn how many different specific solutions people have come up with to solve these RSI problems. Dan -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Charlotte Foust Sent: Thursday, March 18, 2004 10:28 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] OT Wrist/Arm Pain - was Short Date Input Mask quest ion I've never had wrist problems from typing, only from reaching out and up to use the mouse. A keyboard shelf with and articlating mouse shelf puts the mouse level with the wrist rest for the keyboard, and I haven't had any problems since. PS/ I *hate* split keyboards and those ergonomic nightmares. I CANNOT type with my elbows stuck out like open doors! Charlotte Foust -----Original Message----- From: Dan Waters [mailto:dwaters at usinternet.com] Sent: Thursday, March 18, 2004 6:34 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: [AccessD] OT Wrist/Arm Pain - was Short Date Input Mask quest ion For me two things have eliminated all wrist pain. First is that I try to use a split keyboard as much as possible. This lets my wrists stay straight while typing. It took me about 2 weeks to get used to it. Second is that I use a very lightweight mouse. I'm currently using a Fellowes Mini Web Pro, which only weighs 2 or 3 ounces. Before doing the two things above, I occasionally had to stop for several hours due to wrist pain, but not any more! Most of my work is typing text/code and creating forms and reports. Dan -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of rusty.hammond at cpiqpc.com Sent: Wednesday, March 17, 2004 1:30 PM To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: RE: [AccessD] OT Wrist/Arm Pain - was Short Date Input Mask quest ion I've switched my mouse to left handed at work as well. What has really helped the most for me is a quick set of wrist excercises I do each morning. Takes about 2 minutes to do. -----Original Message----- From: Porter, Mark [mailto:MPorter at acsalaska.com] Sent: Wednesday, March 17, 2004 1:09 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: [AccessD] Short Date Input Mask question My solution for wrist/arm pain was to learn to use the mouse left-handed. Back when I was working and consulting in the evenings, I would use the left hand at work and right hand in the evenings. Now I just switch off. Nothing but occasional soreness now and again for the last 4 years. Mark > -----Original Message----- > From: Charlotte Foust [mailto:cfoust at infostatsystems.com] > Sent: Wednesday, March 17, 2004 8:38 AM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: RE: [AccessD] Short Date Input Mask question > > > Hah! I got tendonitis in my thumb using a trackball. Had to go back > to a mouse. That just shows that there is no single right answer. :-} > > Charlotte Foust > > -----Original Message----- > From: William Hindman [mailto:wdhindman at bellsouth.net] > Sent: Wednesday, March 17, 2004 9:25 AM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: Re: [AccessD] Short Date Input Mask question > > > ...shortcut keys/number pad activate each calendar function ...and > I've got every client converted to trackballs instead of mice ...I > used to have severe CTS using a mouse but since moving to trackballs > I've been symptom free :) > > William Hindman > You know the world is upside down when Bill Clinton wins a Grammy and > Janet Jackson is the subject of a government sex investigation. Argus > Hamilton. > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Heenan, Lambert" > To: "'Access Developers discussion and problem solving'" > > Sent: Wednesday, March 17, 2004 10:52 AM > Subject: RE: [AccessD] Short Date Input Mask question > > > > Bryan, > > > > Point taken. This was why I made the comment about mass > data input. In > point > > of fact it is possible, though a bit clunky, to select a > date with the > > > keyboard, and I should perhaps revisit the design on the > form to make > > it easier to do so. > > > > RSI is a serious problem, and I sympathize with your for having to > > deal > with > > it. However it's not confined to mouse use, indeed I > remember it first > being > > reported back in the 80's before mice very prevalent. In those days > > the blame was laid at the door of the extreme ease with > which computer > keyboards > > operated vs. manual typewriters. This allowed for very rapid > > keystrokes, which was thought to be the root cause of RSI. > > > > I also see people who have bizarre ideas about how they should > > position their keyboards and mice. In short there are lots > of factors > > involved, and at the end of the day the user has to figure out the > > best way to use the d*mned machines. So, to reiterate, I think I'll > > take the time to redesign > my > > date picker form to allow for better keyboard use of it. > > > > Lambert > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > From: Bryan Carbonnell [SMTP:Bryan_Carbonnell at cbc.ca] > > > Sent: Wednesday, March 17, 2004 9:52 AM > > > To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com > > > Subject: RE: [AccessD] Short Date Input Mask question > > > > > > Lambert, > > > > > > It may work fine for you, but does it work for your users? Do you > > > force them to use the mouse to select the date, or can they do > > > everything they need to from the keyboard? > > > > > > The only reason I bring this up is that I have had RSI > from moving > > > between the mouse and keyboard for data entry too much. It got to > > > the point where by 10 AM I could not feel my little > finger and half > > > of my lower arm becaude of it. > > > > > > As soon as I got one application that I used on a regular > basis more > > > > keyboard friendly it helped. > > > > > > Just try to keep that in mind. I know I always do. I let > users use > > > the mouse or enter with the keyboard. Their choice. > > > > > > Bryan Carbonnell > > > bryan_carbonnell at cbc.ca > > > > > > > > > >>> Lambert.Heenan at AIG.com 17-Mar-04 9:21:45 AM >>> > > > My solution to date entry is simple - I never let user's > type in a > > > date. They always pick the date from a simple calendar > form (though > > > I don't use > > > the MS Calendar control). Click on a date field and up > pops the date > > > picker. > > > While this would not be suitable, perhaps, in applications where > > > massive numbers of dates need to be entered, I find it works just > > > fine for > me. > > > > > > Lambert > > > > > > -- > > > _______________________________________________ > > > AccessD mailing list > > > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > > > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > -- > > _______________________________________________ > > AccessD mailing list > > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > ************************************************************************ **** ******* 17/3/2004 This transmittal may contain confidential information intended solely for the addressee. 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ACS -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From cfoust at infostatsystems.com Thu Mar 18 17:51:50 2004 From: cfoust at infostatsystems.com (Charlotte Foust) Date: Thu, 18 Mar 2004 15:51:50 -0800 Subject: [AccessD] OT Wrist/Arm Pain - was Short Date Input Mask quest ion Message-ID: ROTFL Charlotte -----Original Message----- From: Ken Ismert [mailto:KIsmert at TexasSystems.com] Sent: Thursday, March 18, 2004 1:50 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: [AccessD] OT Wrist/Arm Pain - was Short Date Input Mask quest ion Charlotte, > I CANNOT type with my elbows stuck out like open doors! Because of my, ummm, pastry habit, that's increasingly my only option! -Ken PS. I use Left-handed Kensington Expert Mouse w/Ergospace wrist rest, and a Datadesk Smartboard. Not perfect, but good enough. -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From wdhindman at bellsouth.net Thu Mar 18 18:58:49 2004 From: wdhindman at bellsouth.net (William Hindman) Date: Thu, 18 Mar 2004 19:58:49 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Short Date Input Mask question References: <2F8793082E00D4119A1700B0D0216BF80222798B@main2.marlow.com> Message-ID: <001601c40d4d$570959d0$6101a8c0@dejpolsys> ...snore ...do while ...snore ...do while ...snore ...do while ...loop de loop :)))))) William Hindman You know the world is upside down when Bill Clinton wins a Grammy and Janet Jackson is the subject of a government sex investigation. Argus Hamilton. ----- Original Message ----- From: To: Sent: Thursday, March 18, 2004 12:28 PM Subject: RE: [AccessD] Short Date Input Mask question > Wait until I get that thing finished....THEN you'll have a reason to try my > new one.... grin. Of course, you'll probably complain about how 'un-mini' > it is...LOL! > > Drew > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of William > Hindman > Sent: Wednesday, March 17, 2004 3:45 PM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: Re: [AccessD] Short Date Input Mask question > > > ...yes and no ...convenient but a suck for bad data entry ime ...one types > in 6/1/2004 ...one types in 1/6/2004 ...one types in 1 jun 04 and tabs on > down the line, etc ...lecture me all day on dumb users but I don't have the > option of firing them ...so I pop up a small calendar every time ...if the > user enters directly in the text box, the calendar moves to the date entered > to provide visual feedback ...if he/she selects from the calendar it fills > the text box ...either way they can mouse it or keyboard it ...so no matter > whether the user is military trained (euro dating) or public school trained > (US dating you hope) or wants to type in the alpha month, I get him there > somehow so that the right date gets entered ...nothings foolproof but date > entry errors have gone to zero ...which is worth the cost of the popup to me > and my clients. > > ...as a side I tried this approach using the native calendar control and > could never make its speed acceptable ...after a lot of experimentation I > standardized on an older version of Drew's all vba code calendar (with some > mods) which is quite fast for my needs ...one of these days I might get > around to using his newest version but I've not found a reason to as yet :) > > William Hindman > You know the world is upside down when Bill Clinton wins a Grammy and Janet > Jackson is the subject of a government sex investigation. Argus Hamilton. > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Brett Barabash" > To: "'Access Developers discussion and problem solving'" > > Sent: Wednesday, March 17, 2004 3:43 PM > Subject: RE: [AccessD] Short Date Input Mask question > > > > >I do not believe that providing a pop up calendar is incorrect especially > > as > > >the users can tab into a date field and use a keyboard in any event. > > > > You missed my point. This is EXACTLY my sentiment. > > > > I said: > > >One of my biggest UI pet peeves is fields that disallow keyboard entry. > > > > My response was to someone who doesn't allow the user to tab into a date > > field and forces them to open up a calendar instead. In my opinion, this > is > > a lazy way of avoiding date validation code. > > > > Have you ever used a program or website that forces you to use a calendar > to > > enter your birthdate? (I have!) Personally, I find it a PITA to click a > > button to open a calendar, navigate to 1975, select May from a dropdown > and > > then click on the 6. I'd like to type 05/06/1975, but some lazy > programmer > > decided that it's way more elegant to launch a special screen to guide me > > through this complex process. > > > > OTOH, Outlook gives you several different options for date selection. To > > schedule a meeting for tomorrow, I can type... > > 03/18/2004 > > March 18, 2004 > > 2004 Mar 18 > > ...or click on the box next to the field if I want to see a calendar. > > > > The developers put a lot of thought into this and because of its inherent > > flexibility it is easy to use by all types of users. I wish other pieces > of > > software were as ambitious. > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: J?rgen Welz [mailto:jwelz at hotmail.com] > > Sent: Wednesday, March 17, 2004 1:45 PM > > To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com > > Subject: RE: [AccessD] Short Date Input Mask question > > > > At one point a few years ago at this list I made a similar comment saying > I > > provided a doubleclick pop up calendar and received a similar response. > As > > a result, I once logged usage of: > > > > Double click pop up calendar > > vs > > Key down with form key preview on, Alt-d pops calendar if screen > active > > control had a standard input mask property. > > > > I also considered a keyboard autokeys macro call a runcode that did the > same > > > > thing but never did implement this version. > > > > Logging indicated that well over 98% of the data entry was by double click > > popup calendar. Granted these were very 'unsophisticated' users but the > > majority of their daily tasks involved interaction with the application. > > > > I do not believe that providing a pop up calendar is incorrect especially > as > > > > the users can tab into a date field and use a keyboard in any event. > IIRC, > > I had changed the display format and input mask dynamically in the past so > > that a user could key in 'mm/dd/yy' but the display format whenever the > > control didn't have focus was 'mmm/dd/yyyy'. I also added a label > > displaying the input format at each date entry textbox so there was never > a > > question as to the required input sequence. > > > > I also believe that one of the reasons that my users like my pop up > calendar > > > > is because it also displays appointments and blocked off dates for that > user > > > > and other office staff (selected in multiselect list). It can be popped > by > > keyboard or by doubleclick and can be navigated by mouse or cursor or page > > keys (for months) and you can tab into a year textbox. The months are > each > > on a tab wtih Alt-character navigation and cursoring down past the end of > > one month moves to the next month (and up to previous). Finally, the > Enter > > keys accepts the date, sets the source textbox and dismisses the calendar > > and the Escape key dismisses the calendar without setting or changing a > > date. > > > > I am a firm believer in always providing a keyboard navigation method, but > > that never precludes adding a mouse alternative that does exactly the same > > thing. A pop up calendar can be entirely keyboard controlled at a cost of > a > > > > few extra keystrokes for the rich graphical information that it can > present. > > > > And just because it's there doesn't mean a user ever has to use it. It > > just turns out that my experience is that they will even though I have a > > prejudice for preferring to use the keyboard wherever possible. I suspect > > this prejudice afflicts most programmers. > > > > If only browers were more keyboard friendly. > > > > > > Ciao > > J?rgen Welz > > Edmonton, Alberta > > jwelz at hotmail.com > > > > > > > > > > > > >From: Brett Barabash > > > > > >I bet the data entry people love you! > > > > > >It may "work for you", but I'll bet that there are some users out there > > >that > > >feel otherwise. One of my biggest UI pet peeves is fields that disallow > > >keyboard entry. One record or 1000 records, it's still annoying to move > > >your hand off of the home row of your keyboard and click around to select > a > > >date. > > > > > > > > >-----Original Message----- > > >From: Heenan, Lambert [mailto:Lambert.Heenan at aig.com] > > >Sent: Wednesday, March 17, 2004 8:22 AM > > >To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' > > >Subject: RE: [AccessD] Short Date Input Mask question > > > > > > > > >My solution to date entry is simple - I never let user's type in a date. > > >They always pick the date from a simple calendar form (though I don't > use > > >the MS Calendar control). Click on a date field and up pops the date > > >picker. > > >While this would not be suitable, perhaps, in applications where massive > > >numbers of dates need to be entered, I find it works just fine for me. > > > > > >Lambert > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > > From: Arthur Fuller [SMTP:artful at rogers.com] > > > > Sent: Tuesday, March 16, 2004 5:47 PM > > > > To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' > > > > Subject: [AccessD] Short Date Input Mask question > > > > > > > > The standard short date input mask (99/99/0000;0;_) has a shortcoming > > > > that I hate: you have to type 04/04/04 to get April 4th 2004. The year > > > > handling is nice but the month and day suck. The mask won't let you > type > > > > 4/4/04. Is there an alternative mask that will respond intelligently > to > > > > such input? Or should I instead just remove all the input masks from > all > > > > the date fields? > > > > > > > > TIA, > > > > Arthur > > > > _________________________________________________________________ > > > > -------------------------------------------------------------------------- > ------------------------------------------ > > The information in this email may contain confidential information that > > is legally privileged. The information is only for the use of the intended > > recipient(s) named above. If you are not the intended recipient(s), you > > are hereby notified that any disclosure, copying, distribution, or the > taking > > of any action in regard to the content of this fax is strictly prohibited. > If > > transmission is incorrect, unclear, or incomplete, please notify the > sender > > immediately. The authorized recipient(s) of this information is/are > prohibited > > from disclosing this information to any other party and is/are required to > > destroy the information after its stated need has been fulfilled. > > > > Any views expressed in this message are those of the individual > > sender, except where the sender specifies and with authority, > > states them to be the views of Tappe Construction Co. > > > > This footer also confirms that this email message has been scanned > > for the presence of computer viruses.Scanning of this message and > > addition of this footer is performed by SurfControl E-mail Filter software > > in conjunction with virus detection software. > > > > -- > > _______________________________________________ > > AccessD mailing list > > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > From accessd at shaw.ca Thu Mar 18 19:16:39 2004 From: accessd at shaw.ca (Jim Lawrence (AccessD)) Date: Thu, 18 Mar 2004 17:16:39 -0800 Subject: [AccessD] Short Date Input Mask question In-Reply-To: Message-ID: In the local provincial government, the standard preferred is dd Mon yyyy/dd-Mmm-yyyy or 10 Mar 2004 and there never is any confusion. Jim -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Bryan Carbonnell Sent: Thursday, March 18, 2004 6:48 AM To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: Re: [AccessD] Short Date Input Mask question > whether the user is military trained (euro dating) or public school trained > (US dating you hope) or wants to type in the alpha month, I get him there Don't you mean "US public school trained (US dating you hope)"? :) I would expect that public school trained folks here in Canada to use d-m-y and not m-d-y :-) Although I believe I was taught y-m-d, but maybe that was in University. I don't remeber Getting too senile Bryan Carbonnell bryan_carbonnell at cbc.ca >>> wdhindman at bellsouth.net 17-Mar-04 4:44:47 PM >>> ...yes and no ...convenient but a suck for bad data entry ime ...one types in 6/1/2004 ...one types in 1/6/2004 ...one types in 1 jun 04 and tabs on down the line, etc ...lecture me all day on dumb users but I don't have the option of firing them ...so I pop up a small calendar every time ...if the user enters directly in the text box, the calendar moves to the date entered to provide visual feedback ...if he/she selects from the calendar it fills the text box ...either way they can mouse it or keyboard it ...so no matter whether the user is military trained (euro dating) or public school trained (US dating you hope) or wants to type in the alpha month, I get him there somehow so that the right date gets entered ...nothings foolproof but date entry errors have gone to zero ...which is worth the cost of the popup to me and my clients. -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From bchacc at san.rr.com Thu Mar 18 19:39:12 2004 From: bchacc at san.rr.com (Rocky Smolin - Beach Access Software) Date: Thu, 18 Mar 2004 17:39:12 -0800 Subject: [AccessD] Mixed Versions Message-ID: <01fb01c40d52$fb8ba990$6601a8c0@HAL9002> Dear List: I have a client running one of my old A97 apps FE and BE. He wants me to supply an FE that will run on a machine with AXP or A2003 I have A2K. If I convert my A97 FE to A2K and make an mde out of it, will the mde run on a box with AXP and/or A2003 and be able to read/write the A97 BE? MTIA, Rocky Smolin Beach Access Software http://www.e-z-mrp.com From jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com Thu Mar 18 20:02:05 2004 From: jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com (John W. Colby) Date: Thu, 18 Mar 2004 21:02:05 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] zip/unzip In-Reply-To: Message-ID: OK, I got it working. It was page faulting because I wasn't setting up required properties before trying the zip, little things like the name of the zip file, the name of the object to zip etc. Once I set those properties, it works fine. The zipped file can be read by Winzip. Cool stuff and will be part of the next framework demo article I'm working on tonight. >Ah, that jiggles some demagnetized memory bits! You my dear friend are OLD it would seem. Are you by any chance referring to core memory? I actually worked on computers with core memory back in my Navy days. Massive Sperry Univac 642/B refrigerator sized "mainframes", 36 bit with 32 kwords of core memory and a lightening fast 4 microsecond instruction time (256 k instructions / second). John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of John W. Colby Sent: Thursday, March 18, 2004 6:29 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] zip/unzip I put them in System32 and the app page faults and closes Access if I try and run the zip stuff/ -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of John Bartow Sent: Thursday, March 18, 2004 5:11 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] zip/unzip Ah, that jiggles some demagnetized memory bits! I think thats the ticket, John From accessd at shaw.ca Thu Mar 18 19:56:52 2004 From: accessd at shaw.ca (Jim Lawrence (AccessD)) Date: Thu, 18 Mar 2004 17:56:52 -0800 Subject: [AccessD] Re: Hyperlink Field In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.2.20040318131705.02acd340@pop3.highstream.net> Message-ID: Isn't memory the second thing to go and I can't remember the first... Jim -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Robert L. Stewart Sent: Thursday, March 18, 2004 11:22 AM To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: [AccessD] Re: Hyperlink Field I finally remembered what I used a hyperlink capable label for. I was linking to external images (jpgs) and wanted a "link" to them so I stored the path in the db and set the hyperlink address property in code. So Virginia, I mislead you, but I also know that you have a good answer from one of the other listers. I hate getting old :-() They say memory is the first thing to go. I cannot remember what the second thing was! Robert At 12:00 PM 3/18/2004 -0600, you wrote: >Date: Thu, 18 Mar 2004 11:04:55 -0600 >From: "Robert L. Stewart" >Subject: [AccessD] Re: Re: Hyperlink Field >To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com >Cc: stuart at lexacorp.com.pg >Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20040318110136.02ad3800 at pop3.highstream.net> >Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed > >Stuart, > >Try Hyperlink Address and Hyperlink subaddress >properties for a label. Access 97, 2000, 2002, >2003 > >After looking at what she asked closer, I >think all she needs to do is add a hyperlink >datatype column to her table. > >Robert > >At 08:34 AM 3/18/2004 -0600, you wrote: > >Message: 5 > >Date: Thu, 18 Mar 2004 08:12:52 +1000 > >From: "Stuart McLachlan" > >Subject: Re: [AccessD] Re: Hyperlink Field > >To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > > > >Message-ID: <40595A04.4146.19A0E9 at localhost> > >Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII > > > >On 17 Mar 2004 at 15:53, Robert L. Stewart wrote: > > > > > Virginia, > > > > > > The trick is that a label has the hyperlink > > > property and not a text box. Use a label > > > and set the properties for it in code. > > > > > > > > > >Not in any version of Access I've ever seen. > > > >The "Is hyperlink" property is the last one in the "Format" tab of > >the textbox "Properties" dialog. > -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From d.dick at uws.edu.au Thu Mar 18 20:05:41 2004 From: d.dick at uws.edu.au (Darren DICK) Date: Fri, 19 Mar 2004 13:05:41 +1100 Subject: [AccessD] A2K: Stop Code, Accept Input then restart code Message-ID: <021a01c40d56$ae637a40$48619a89@DDICK> Hello all I have code on Form 1 that alerts the user to something What I want to do is half way through the alert code, stop the alert code, open form 2 (a popup form) Allow user to select a value from a combo on Form 2. Close form 2 then pass that value from Form 2 back to the Alert code on Form 1 and continue processing the Alert code using the value passed from Form 2 What I don't know how to do is...Stop processing the Alert Code in Form 1 - I do know how to get ....A value from Form 2 What I don't know how to do is...Start processing the Alert Code in Form 1 again with the new value Make sense? Am I going about this the right way? Many thanks in advance Darren From accessd at shaw.ca Thu Mar 18 20:06:57 2004 From: accessd at shaw.ca (Jim Lawrence (AccessD)) Date: Thu, 18 Mar 2004 18:06:57 -0800 Subject: [AccessD] Connect to DB2 In-Reply-To: <67B2D43A2067B248A36B007650A2312C35F886@PSJOE2K1.fxfwest.freight.fedex.com> Message-ID: Hi Paul: Check this site out. It gives a number of DB2 connection examples depending on what and how you require the connection. http://www.able-consulting.com/ADO_Conn.htm HTH Jim -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Millard, Paul --- Sr. Developer Analyst ---WGO Sent: Thursday, March 18, 2004 2:02 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: [AccessD] Connect to DB2 Folks, Can anyone help me connect to a db2 database. I've seen multiple ways to connect using OLEDB Connection strings but I'm not sure what the database name and format should be. Below is a QMF SQL query tool .ini file used to connect to the database. If anyone can provide the string along with exact values based upon info below that would be great. Thanks, Paul [Server Parameters] Server1=HOST Server2=HOSTDSNB [HOST] RDBName=AFDSNP CollectionName=QMFWIN HostName=AFW1.HRO.AF.COM Port=446 SymDestName=*TCP/IP* DefaultSchedule1=Y00000078000003840009601710000012C0000000000000000000200000 00007FDFFFE00002710XX DefaultSchedule2=@ 0000000000000000 DefaultSchedule3=2 DefaultSchedule4= QueryBlockSize=32500 DecimalDelimiter=Period StringDelimiter=Apostrophe IsolationLevel=CursorStability BindReplace=1 BindKeep=1 BindOwner= xSingleCCSID=37 xMixedCCSID=0 xDoubleCCSID=0 xQMFCCSID=37 [HOSTDSNB] RDBName=AFDSNT CollectionName=QMFWIN HostName=AFW2.HRO.AF.COM Port=5030 SymDestName=*TCP/IP* DefaultSchedule1=Y00000078000003840009601710000012C0000000000000000000200000 00007FDFFFE00002710XX DefaultSchedule2=@ 0000000000000000 DefaultSchedule3=2 DefaultSchedule4= QueryBlockSize=32500 DecimalDelimiter=Period StringDelimiter=Apostrophe IsolationLevel=CursorStability BindReplace=1 BindKeep=1 BindOwner= xSingleCCSID=37 xMixedCCSID=0 xDoubleCCSID=0 xQMFCCSID=37 ********************************************************** This message contains information that is confidential and proprietary to FedEx Freight or its affiliates. It is intended only for the recipient named and for the express purpose(s) described therein. Any other use is prohibited. **************************************************************** -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From martyconnelly at shaw.ca Thu Mar 18 20:08:54 2004 From: martyconnelly at shaw.ca (MartyConnelly) Date: Thu, 18 Mar 2004 18:08:54 -0800 Subject: [AccessD] Detecting when an Access Report has been closed! References: <20040315183851.5477.qmail@web13012.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <405A5636.3090508@shaw.ca> You might try something like this 'Here 's a thought. Instead of adding code to the report, why not just test 'for the "Open" state of the report. Add this to your code AFTER it opens 'the Report stDocName: borrowed this from Roger Carlson DoCmd.OpenReport stDocName, acViewNormal ' Do While SysCmd(acSysCmdGetObjectState, acReport, stDocName) DoEvents Loop ' MsgBox "report Done" 'The Do Loop will check to see if your report (held in the stDocName 'variable) is open. Once it is closed, it will fall through the loop and the ' you can check what you want Dick Abo wrote: > >I have a form from which the user views a report in Print Preview mode by clicking the View Report button. I would like user to respond to the question to Publish, or Not Publish the report after the report is viewed. If the user decides to Publish the report, I export the report to Word and then save it in Ascii format (MS-DOS text w/layout). > >I could incorporate a separate button on the form that just generates the Access 2000 report in acPreview mode. I would prefer to detect when the report has been closed by the user so that I can then ask the question, Publish or Not Publish the report and to execute the remaining code that is behind the existing View Report button? > >Can you kindly give me some advice on how to do this! > >TIA, > >Rick > > >Do you Yahoo!? >Yahoo! Mail - More reliable, more storage, less spam > > -- Marty Connelly Victoria, B.C. Canada From jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com Thu Mar 18 20:23:06 2004 From: jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com (John W. Colby) Date: Thu, 18 Mar 2004 21:23:06 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] A2K: Stop Code, Accept Input then restart code In-Reply-To: <021a01c40d56$ae637a40$48619a89@DDICK> Message-ID: Any time you open a form modal, processing stops in the code that opens that form. It's just automatic, and is one of the parameters of the docmd.open form syntax. John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Darren DICK Sent: Thursday, March 18, 2004 9:06 PM To: AccessD List Subject: [AccessD] A2K: Stop Code, Accept Input then restart code Hello all I have code on Form 1 that alerts the user to something What I want to do is half way through the alert code, stop the alert code, open form 2 (a popup form) Allow user to select a value from a combo on Form 2. Close form 2 then pass that value from Form 2 back to the Alert code on Form 1 and continue processing the Alert code using the value passed from Form 2 What I don't know how to do is...Stop processing the Alert Code in Form 1 - I do know how to get ....A value from Form 2 What I don't know how to do is...Start processing the Alert Code in Form 1 again with the new value Make sense? Am I going about this the right way? Many thanks in advance Darren -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From accessd at shaw.ca Thu Mar 18 20:34:07 2004 From: accessd at shaw.ca (Jim Lawrence (AccessD)) Date: Thu, 18 Mar 2004 18:34:07 -0800 Subject: [AccessD] A2K: Stop Code, Accept Input then restart code In-Reply-To: <021a01c40d56$ae637a40$48619a89@DDICK> Message-ID: Hi Darren: Run the second or third form from the 'on timer' event that should allow multiple processes to run or/and use the DoEvents.. globalvariable1 = True DoCmd.OpenForm "Form2" Do While globalvariable1 = True DoEvents Loop DoCmd.Close ,"Form2", acSaveYes This will hold things relatively static until any process unsets the global variable. HTH Jim -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Darren DICK Sent: Thursday, March 18, 2004 6:06 PM To: AccessD List Subject: [AccessD] A2K: Stop Code, Accept Input then restart code Hello all I have code on Form 1 that alerts the user to something What I want to do is half way through the alert code, stop the alert code, open form 2 (a popup form) Allow user to select a value from a combo on Form 2. Close form 2 then pass that value from Form 2 back to the Alert code on Form 1 and continue processing the Alert code using the value passed from Form 2 What I don't know how to do is...Stop processing the Alert Code in Form 1 - I do know how to get ....A value from Form 2 What I don't know how to do is...Start processing the Alert Code in Form 1 again with the new value Make sense? Am I going about this the right way? Many thanks in advance Darren -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From martyconnelly at shaw.ca Thu Mar 18 20:39:58 2004 From: martyconnelly at shaw.ca (MartyConnelly) Date: Thu, 18 Mar 2004 18:39:58 -0800 Subject: [AccessD] Re: Printing forms References: Message-ID: <405A5D7E.1030203@shaw.ca> You could try this code I use to send error reports ; dumps form or screen to word along with a task manger list You could set AltKey Macro to some hotkey combination maybe F7 so it calls SnapPrintScreen then ErrorReportToWord and you will have your screens in a automatcally pasted in a Word Document. I can send you a simple Access97 mdb with this running. Sub ErrorScreenReport() 'turn on reference to Microsoft Word Object Library SnapPrintScreen 'or SnapPrintForm ErrorReportToWord End Sub Option Compare Database Option Explicit '_______________________________________________________ ' Snap a picture of the screen and send error messages, ' screen picture and tasklist to a word document '________________________________________________________ 'turn on reference to Microsoft Word Object Library Private Const VK_LWIN = &H5B 'Left window button Private Const VK_RETURN = &HD 'ENTER key Private Const VK_SHIFT = &H10 'SHIFT key Private Const VK_CONTROL = &H11 'CTRL key Private Const VK_MENU = &H12 'ALT key Private Const VK_PAUSE = &H13 'PAUSE key Private Const VK_CAPITAL = &H14 'CAPS LOCK key Private Const VK_SNAPSHOT = &H2C 'Print Screen Private Const VK_APPS = &H5D 'Applications key on a Microsoft Natural Keyboard 'from http://support.microsoft.com/view/dev.asp?kb=242971 Const GW_HWNDFIRST = 0 Const GW_HWNDNEXT = 2 Private Const KEYEVENTF_KEYUP = &H2 Private Declare Sub keybd_event Lib "user32" (ByVal bVk As Byte, _ ByVal bScan As Byte, ByVal dwflags As Long, ByVal dwExtraInfo As Long) Private Declare Function GetWindow Lib "user32" _ (ByVal hWnd As Long, ByVal wCmd As Long) As Long Private Declare Function GetParent Lib "user32" _ (ByVal hWnd As Long) As Long Private Declare Function GetWindowTextLength Lib _ "user32" Alias "GetWindowTextLengthA" (ByVal hWnd As Long) As Long Private Declare Function GetWindowText Lib "user32" _ Alias "GetWindowTextA" (ByVal hWnd As Long, ByVal _ lpString As String, ByVal cch As Long) As Long Private Declare Function FindWindow Lib "user32" Alias "FindWindowA" _ (ByVal lpClassName As String, ByVal lpWindowName As String) As Long Private Declare Function SetFocusAPI Lib "user32" Alias "SetFocus" _ (ByVal hWnd As Long) As Long Sub ErrorScreenReport() 'turn on reference to Microsoft Word Object Library SnapPrintScreen 'SnapPrintForm ErrorReportToWord End Sub Sub ErrorReportToWord() Dim ObjWord As Word.Application Dim temp As String Dim strFileName As String Dim strErrDesc As String Dim strLoadTaskList As String Dim appPathAccess As String ' grab the Task List strLoadTaskList = LoadTaskList() ' On Error Resume Next Set ObjWord = New Word.Application ' Disable command button to prevent object being recreated ' If you have an error in here, it will litter memory with copies of word ' so put in error handling ObjWord.Documents.Add ObjWord.Selection.Paste strErrDesc = "Error No: " & Err.Number & "; Description: " & Err.Description 'no range selected so text placed at end of document ObjWord.Application.Selection.Font.Size = 14 ObjWord.Application.Selection.Font.Bold = True strErrDesc = strErrDesc & " Module name = ..." & vbCrLf & vbCrLf ObjWord.Application.Selection.Font.Size = 10 ObjWord.Application.Selection.Font.Bold = True strErrDesc = strErrDesc & strLoadTaskList ObjWord.ActiveDocument.Content.InsertAfter Text:=strErrDesc ' Saves report with a new filename ' Name of report file, change path to whatever is applicable appPathAccess = CurrentDBDir strFileName = appPathAccess & "ErrorReport" strFileName = strFileName & Format(Now, "yyyymmddhhmmss") & ".doc" ObjWord.ActiveDocument.SaveAs (strFileName) ' Quit Word ObjWord.Documents.Close ObjWord.Quit ' Inform user that report is created MsgBox "Error Report Created in File" & vbCrLf & strFileName ' Clear our pointer to word Set ObjWord = Nothing End Sub 'Determining Which Tasks Are Running 'With the Microsoft Windows operating system, 'you can run any number of applications simultaneously. 'Occasionally, you may need to determine which tasks are currently being 'run. 'This can be accomplished by using several Windows application programming 'interface '(API) functions. 'To find the names of all currently executing tasks, 'you must first determine the handle of the window that is currently 'at the top of the z-order. This, of course, would be the window of your 'own Microsoft Visual Basic application. 'You can use the Windows API GetWindow function to retrieve the handle 'of your application's window with the statement: ' CurrWnd = GetWindow(Form1.hwnd, GW_HWNDFIRST) ' To use in Access replace with the following ' parent_hwnd = FindWindow(vbNullString, "Microsoft Access") 'The first argument of the GetWindow function is the handle of the window 'that is at the top of the z-order. In this case, this is the handle of 'Form1. 'The second argument of the GetWindow function specifies the window 'you want to retrieve the handle for. 'This argument can have one of the following values: ' GW_CHILD Retrieve the handle for the child window. ' GW_HWNDFIRST Retrieve the handle for the window at the top of the z- 'order. ' GW_HWNDLAST Retrieve the handle for the window at the bottom of the z- 'order. ' GW_HWNDNEXT Retrieve the handle of the window below the specified window 'in the z-order. ' GW_HWNDPREV Retrieve the handle of the window above the specified window 'in the z-order. ' GW_OWNER Retrieve the handle of the window that owns the specified 'window, if any. 'After you have retrieved the application's window handle, 'you can use the Windows API GetParent function to retrieve this window's 'child window handle. Next, you call the Windows API GetWindowText and 'GetWindowTextLength functions to retrieve the text in the window's title 'bar 'and the length of this text, respectively. You can then use the text string 'in your own application. For example, you can save the title bar text 'to a List Box control. 'All of the above steps are repeated until you have processed all running 'tasks. 'You know that you have gone through each task when the current window is 'that'of your own application. Function LoadTaskList() As String Dim CurrWnd As Long Dim Length As Long Dim TaskName As String Dim Parent As Long Dim parent_hwnd As Long Dim strMyTaskList As String strMyTaskList = " Task List " & vbCrLf ' This line below works from VB form 'CurrWnd = GetWindow(Form1.hwnd, GW_HWNDFIRST) ' get Parent Window Handle parent_hwnd = FindWindow(vbNullString, "Microsoft Access") If parent_hwnd = 0 Then MsgBox "Access Not Found" Exit Function End If 'SetFocusAPI parent_hwnd CurrWnd = parent_hwnd While CurrWnd <> 0 Parent = GetParent(CurrWnd) Length = GetWindowTextLength(CurrWnd) TaskName = Space$(Length + 1) Length = GetWindowText(CurrWnd, TaskName, Length + 1) TaskName = Left$(TaskName, Len(TaskName) - 1) If Length > 0 Then 'If TaskName <> Me.Caption Then 'If TaskName <> "Microsoft Access" Then 'List1.AddItem TaskName strMyTaskList = strMyTaskList & TaskName & vbCrLf Debug.Print TaskName 'End If End If CurrWnd = GetWindow(CurrWnd, GW_HWNDNEXT) DoEvents Wend LoadTaskList = strMyTaskList End Function ' Function CurrentDBDir() As String ' get Current Database Path string Dim strDBPath As String Dim strDBFile As String strDBPath = CurrentDb.Name strDBFile = Dir(strDBPath) CurrentDBDir = Left(strDBPath, Len(strDBPath) - Len(strDBFile)) End Function ---------------------------------------put in another module -------------------------------------- '_______________________________________________________ ' Snap a picture of the screen and send error messages, ' screen picture and tasklist to a word document '________________________________________________________ Private Const VK_LWIN = &H5B 'Left window button Private Const VK_RETURN = &HD 'ENTER key Private Const VK_SHIFT = &H10 'SHIFT key Private Const VK_CONTROL = &H11 'CTRL key Private Const VK_MENU = &H12 'ALT key Private Const VK_PAUSE = &H13 'PAUSE key Private Const VK_CAPITAL = &H14 'CAPS LOCK key Private Const VK_SNAPSHOT = &H2C 'Print Screen Private Const VK_APPS = &H5D 'Applications key on a Microsoft Natural Keyboard 'from http://support.microsoft.com/view/dev.asp?kb=242971 Const GW_HWNDFIRST = 0 Const GW_HWNDNEXT = 2 Private Const KEYEVENTF_KEYUP = &H2 Private Declare Sub keybd_event Lib "user32" (ByVal bVk As Byte, _ ByVal bScan As Byte, ByVal dwflags As Long, ByVal dwExtraInfo As Long) Private Declare Function GetWindow Lib "user32" _ (ByVal hWnd As Long, ByVal wCmd As Long) As Long Private Declare Function GetParent Lib "user32" _ (ByVal hWnd As Long) As Long Private Declare Function GetWindowTextLength Lib _ "user32" Alias "GetWindowTextLengthA" (ByVal hWnd As Long) As Long Private Declare Function GetWindowText Lib "user32" _ Alias "GetWindowTextA" (ByVal hWnd As Long, ByVal _ lpString As String, ByVal cch As Long) As Long Private Declare Function FindWindow Lib "user32" Alias "FindWindowA" _ (ByVal lpClassName As String, ByVal lpWindowName As String) As Long Private Declare Function SetFocusAPI Lib "user32" Alias "SetFocus" _ (ByVal hWnd As Long) As Long Sub OpenWindowsHelp() ' Open the Windows Help ' ' You can use the same technique to programmatically "press" any other ' key, including Shift, Ctrl, Alt and keys combinations that can't be ' simulated through SendKeys ' programmatically press the Windows key keybd_event VK_LWIN, 0, 0, 0 ' then press and then release the F1 key keybd_event vbKeyF1, 0, 0, 0 keybd_event vbKeyF1, 0, KEYEVENTF_KEYUP, 0 ' and finally release the Windows Key keybd_event VK_LWIN, 0, KEYEVENTF_KEYUP, 0 End Sub Sub CloseAllWindows() ' Minimize all open windows 'Const acaltMask ' programmatically press the Windows key keybd_event VK_LWIN, 0, 0, 0 ' then press and then release the M key keybd_event vbKeyM, 0, 0, 0 keybd_event vbKeyM, 0, KEYEVENTF_KEYUP, 0 ' and finally release the Windows Key keybd_event VK_LWIN, 0, KEYEVENTF_KEYUP, 0 End Sub Sub SnapPrintForm() 'use the following code inside form or focused window 'to simulate the Alt / PrintScreen = key combination: 'If form popup in Access will capture form ' programmatically press the ALT key ' keybd_event VK_MENU, 0, 0, 0 ' then press and then release the PrtScreen key keybd_event VK_SNAPSHOT, 1, 0, 0 DoEvents ' keybd_event VK_SNAPSHOT, 0, KEYEVENTF_KEYUP, 0 ' and finally release the ALT Key ' keybd_event VK_MENU, 0, KEYEVENTF_KEYUP, 0 End Sub Sub SnapPrintScreen() 'To print the entire screen (rather than the current focused window 'programmatically press the ALT key 'keybd_event VK_MENU, 0, 0, 0 ' then press and then release the PrtScreen key keybd_event VK_SNAPSHOT, 0, 0, 0 DoEvents 'keybd_event VK_SNAPSHOT, 0, KEYEVENTF_KEYUP, 0 ' and finally release the ALT Key 'keybd_event VK_MENU, 0, KEYEVENTF_KEYUP, 0 ' The second argument for the keybd_event call is the hardware scan code, ' and, in this case, you could use the value 1. This may have to change ' with Win 2000 ' However, applications should not use this scan code according to Microsoft ' The screen is now captured in the clipboard as a bmp End Sub rsmethurst at UK.EY.COM wrote: >Robert, > >Thanks for the reply. I'm aware of what forms and reports are used for. > >However, in this instance I need to print a screen-dump of a form. - I'll >elaborate on the scenario. > >On these forms (and there are many of them - mostly inherited from a >previous version of this app) there are graphs, combo boxes, datasheets >and drill down sub forms, allowing the user to make multiple (and usually >quite detailed) selections on the data. Once those selections are made >the users (as per the spec and the previous app versions) would like to >print a view of the actual form (i.e their selections and however that has >affected the data/graphs etc) - something which by and large works fine >except for the items I listed below. (The unbound combo's/radio's etc.) >The database (by design - out my hands) contains no reports - only these >screen prints. > >An obviouse work around is to put labels on the offending controls >(populate them with the required data) and make them visible only when >printing, but this seems crude if it would work....in fact it does - >previous versions of this app have shown that. I would just like to know >if there is a quicker way to do this. Printing bound controls is fine (in >fact even unbound controls with a default value set) - from what I can >see, it is the unbound ones without defaults that are problematic. > >Even if the users/project sponsors were open to reports in this instance >(which they are not) I just haven't got the time to go and develop the >number of reports that would duplicate what is on these numerous forms >(some of which are extremely complex) at this stage of the project. > >So, in summary, what I am hoping for, is info about the the most feasible >way to achieve this, given the time constraints I have mentioned above. >(It might be the labels...but I live in hope for a more simple/timely >solution) > >Ryan > > > > > >"Robert L. Stewart" >Sent by: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com >11/03/2004 18:15 >Please respond to Access Developers discussion and problem solving > > > To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com > cc: > Subject: [AccessD] Re: Printing forms > > >Ryan, > >That is because you print reports and not forms. > >Forms are for data entry. Reports are for printing. > >Robert > >At 11:46 AM 3/11/2004 -0600, you wrote: > > >>Date: Thu, 11 Mar 2004 17:42:38 +0000 >>From: rsmethurst at UK.EY.COM >>Subject: [AccessD] Printing forms >>To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving >> >>Message-ID: >> >>Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" >> >>Hi All, >> >>I am having a problem printing forms - specifically it is with combo >> >> >boxes > > >>and radio buttons (usually within frames) which do not print with the >>correct option filled. >> >>i.e two radio buttons and both will print blank, even though the first >> >> >one > > >>is selected. >>and a combo box with have a selected value, but will not display this >>value when the form prints. >> >>The controls are all set to display for both print and screen, and the >>controls are unbound. >> >>TIA >> >>Ryan >> >> > > > > -- Marty Connelly Victoria, B.C. Canada From jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com Thu Mar 18 21:58:45 2004 From: jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com (John W. Colby) Date: Thu, 18 Mar 2004 22:58:45 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] New EMail Address Message-ID: Anyone who has me in their address book should note that my email address has changed to jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com (notice the W). I have turned off jcolby at colbyconsulting.com due to an overwhelming flood of spam, approaching 300 spam emails a day. While my email filter was extremely accurate in getting them out of my inbox there is the occasional (1 in 500 or so) false positives where a good email gets put out in the spam folder. It is getting very hard to find them so it's time to just shut that email box down. Sorry for the inconvenience. John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com From accessd at shaw.ca Thu Mar 18 22:27:52 2004 From: accessd at shaw.ca (Jim Lawrence (AccessD)) Date: Thu, 18 Mar 2004 20:27:52 -0800 Subject: [AccessD] New EMail Address In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Hi John: Do not forget to set up your new address in the contact section of your web site as follows so spam-bots will not be able just extract it. (It does not matter what shows on the screen, it is what is in the page code that the 'bots' search for.) HTH Jim -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of John W. Colby Sent: Thursday, March 18, 2004 7:59 PM To: AccessD Subject: [AccessD] New EMail Address Anyone who has me in their address book should note that my email address has changed to jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com (notice the W). I have turned off jcolby at colbyconsulting.com due to an overwhelming flood of spam, approaching 300 spam emails a day. While my email filter was extremely accurate in getting them out of my inbox there is the occasional (1 in 500 or so) false positives where a good email gets put out in the spam folder. It is getting very hard to find them so it's time to just shut that email box down. Sorry for the inconvenience. John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com Thu Mar 18 22:50:51 2004 From: jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com (John W. Colby) Date: Thu, 18 Mar 2004 23:50:51 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] New EMail Address In-Reply-To: Message-ID: What happens if users have java turned off? I found something out there that turns the clear text into numeric codes, which the browser then turns back into alpha when "read". Does that work? John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Jim Lawrence (AccessD) Sent: Thursday, March 18, 2004 11:28 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] New EMail Address Hi John: Do not forget to set up your new address in the contact section of your web site as follows so spam-bots will not be able just extract it. (It does not matter what shows on the screen, it is what is in the page code that the 'bots' search for.) HTH Jim -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of John W. Colby Sent: Thursday, March 18, 2004 7:59 PM To: AccessD Subject: [AccessD] New EMail Address Anyone who has me in their address book should note that my email address has changed to jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com (notice the W). I have turned off jcolby at colbyconsulting.com due to an overwhelming flood of spam, approaching 300 spam emails a day. While my email filter was extremely accurate in getting them out of my inbox there is the occasional (1 in 500 or so) false positives where a good email gets put out in the spam folder. It is getting very hard to find them so it's time to just shut that email box down. Sorry for the inconvenience. John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com Thu Mar 18 22:58:49 2004 From: jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com (John W. Colby) Date: Thu, 18 Mar 2004 23:58:49 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] New EMail Address In-Reply-To: Message-ID: It is an eerie silence without spam every 30 seconds! Not a single piece since I turned off that address. John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Jim Lawrence (AccessD) Sent: Thursday, March 18, 2004 11:28 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] New EMail Address Hi John: Do not forget to set up your new address in the contact section of your web site as follows so spam-bots will not be able just extract it. (It does not matter what shows on the screen, it is what is in the page code that the 'bots' search for.) HTH Jim -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of John W. Colby Sent: Thursday, March 18, 2004 7:59 PM To: AccessD Subject: [AccessD] New EMail Address Anyone who has me in their address book should note that my email address has changed to jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com (notice the W). I have turned off jcolby at colbyconsulting.com due to an overwhelming flood of spam, approaching 300 spam emails a day. While my email filter was extremely accurate in getting them out of my inbox there is the occasional (1 in 500 or so) false positives where a good email gets put out in the spam folder. It is getting very hard to find them so it's time to just shut that email box down. Sorry for the inconvenience. John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com Thu Mar 18 22:58:49 2004 From: jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com (John W. Colby) Date: Thu, 18 Mar 2004 23:58:49 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] New EMail Address In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Does anyone know if Dreamweaver can do a search and replace throughout all of the html pages of a site do make a change like this? John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Jim Lawrence (AccessD) Sent: Thursday, March 18, 2004 11:28 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] New EMail Address Hi John: Do not forget to set up your new address in the contact section of your web site as follows so spam-bots will not be able just extract it. (It does not matter what shows on the screen, it is what is in the page code that the 'bots' search for.) HTH Jim -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of John W. Colby Sent: Thursday, March 18, 2004 7:59 PM To: AccessD Subject: [AccessD] New EMail Address Anyone who has me in their address book should note that my email address has changed to jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com (notice the W). I have turned off jcolby at colbyconsulting.com due to an overwhelming flood of spam, approaching 300 spam emails a day. While my email filter was extremely accurate in getting them out of my inbox there is the occasional (1 in 500 or so) false positives where a good email gets put out in the spam folder. It is getting very hard to find them so it's time to just shut that email box down. Sorry for the inconvenience. John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From bruce_bruen at mlc.com.au Thu Mar 18 23:08:32 2004 From: bruce_bruen at mlc.com.au (bruce_bruen at mlc.com.au) Date: Fri, 19 Mar 2004 16:08:32 +1100 Subject: [AccessD] New EMail Address Message-ID: Yes, Edit menu - Find and Replace item (believe it or not!!! :-) ) In the Find In box you can select the entire local site Bruce Does anyone know if Dreamweaver can do a search and replace throughout all of the html pages of a site do make a change like this? John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com From andrew.haslett at ilc.gov.au Thu Mar 18 23:16:04 2004 From: andrew.haslett at ilc.gov.au (Haslett, Andrew) Date: Fri, 19 Mar 2004 15:46:04 +1030 Subject: [AccessD] New EMail Address Message-ID: I generally don't put your email address on sites period. If you'd like people to contact you, you could build a custom form which submit the details to you internally. If that's no good and you still want to make your address public, some people often display derivations of the actual address, rather than the exact text - requiring users to adapt the address themselves of course: jcolbyREMOVE at THIScolbyconsulting.com jcolby @ colbyconsulting DOT com Etc. which help to stop crawlers picking up the address. Might be an option? -----Original Message----- From: John W. Colby [mailto:jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com] Sent: Friday, 19 March 2004 3:21 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] New EMail Address What happens if users have java turned off? I found something out there that turns the clear text into numeric codes, which the browser then turns back into alpha when "read". Does that work? John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Jim Lawrence (AccessD) Sent: Thursday, March 18, 2004 11:28 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] New EMail Address Hi John: Do not forget to set up your new address in the contact section of your web site as follows so spam-bots will not be able just extract it. (It does not matter what shows on the screen, it is what is in the page code that the 'bots' search for.) HTH Jim -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of John W. Colby Sent: Thursday, March 18, 2004 7:59 PM To: AccessD Subject: [AccessD] New EMail Address Anyone who has me in their address book should note that my email address has changed to jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com (notice the W). I have turned off jcolby at colbyconsulting.com due to an overwhelming flood of spam, approaching 300 spam emails a day. While my email filter was extremely accurate in getting them out of my inbox there is the occasional (1 in 500 or so) false positives where a good email gets put out in the spam folder. It is getting very hard to find them so it's time to just shut that email box down. Sorry for the inconvenience. John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com IMPORTANT - PLEASE READ ******************** This email and any files transmitted with it are confidential and may contain information protected by law from disclosure. If you have received this message in error, please notify the sender immediately and delete this email from your system. No warranty is given that this email or files, if attached to this email, are free from computer viruses or other defects. They are provided on the basis the user assumes all responsibility for loss, damage or consequence resulting directly or indirectly from their use, whether caused by the negligence of the sender or not. From kathryn at bassett.net Fri Mar 19 00:41:11 2004 From: kathryn at bassett.net (Kathryn Bassett) Date: Thu, 18 Mar 2004 22:41:11 -0800 Subject: [AccessD] New EMail Address In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Did you remember to change your MSN messenger too? IOW, do we who have you in our MSN contacts need to add the new address? -- Kathryn Rhinehart Bassett (Pasadena CA) "Genealogy is my bag" "GH is my soap" kathryn at bassett.net http://bassett.net > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of John W. Colby > Sent: 18 Mar 2004 7:59:PM > To: AccessD > Subject: [AccessD] New EMail Address > > > Anyone who has me in their address book should note that my email address > has changed to jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com (notice the W). I have turned > off jcolby at colbyconsulting.com due to an overwhelming flood of spam, > approaching 300 spam emails a day. While my email filter was extremely > accurate in getting them out of my inbox there is the occasional (1 in 500 > or so) false positives where a good email gets put out in the spam folder. > It is getting very hard to find them so it's time to just shut that email > box down. > > Sorry for the inconvenience. > > John W. Colby > www.ColbyConsulting.com > > > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From stuart at pacific.net.hk Fri Mar 19 02:22:31 2004 From: stuart at pacific.net.hk (Stuart Sanders) Date: Fri, 19 Mar 2004 16:22:31 +0800 Subject: [AccessD] New EMail Address In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <00a101c40d8b$53fbc280$6601a8c0@nbbits01> Another way which foils the vast majority of harvesters (for now) is to use a graphics file with your address and to obscure the email address by using control code. Eg mailto:info@bitshk.c 1m on a web page Translates to info at bitshk.com when clicked on a web page. Eventually harvesters may include this as well, but it would add a lot of overhead to filter each page for email addresses encode this way. Stuart > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of > Jim Lawrence (AccessD) > Sent: Friday, 19 March 2004 12:28 PM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: RE: [AccessD] New EMail Address > > > Hi John: > > Do not forget to set up your new address in the contact > section of your web > site as follows so spam-bots will not be able just extract > it. (It does not > matter what shows on the screen, it is what is in the page > code that the > 'bots' search for.) > > > > HTH > Jim > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of > John W. Colby > Sent: Thursday, March 18, 2004 7:59 PM > To: AccessD > Subject: [AccessD] New EMail Address > > > Anyone who has me in their address book should note that my > email address > has changed to jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com (notice the W). I > have turned > off jcolby at colbyconsulting.com due to an overwhelming flood of spam, > approaching 300 spam emails a day. While my email filter was > extremely > accurate in getting them out of my inbox there is the > occasional (1 in 500 > or so) false positives where a good email gets put out in the > spam folder. > It is getting very hard to find them so it's time to just > shut that email > box down. > > Sorry for the inconvenience. > > John W. Colby > www.ColbyConsulting.com > > > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > From gustav at cactus.dk Fri Mar 19 01:58:55 2004 From: gustav at cactus.dk (Gustav Brock) Date: Fri, 19 Mar 2004 08:58:55 +0100 Subject: [AccessD] Strange results with simple calculation on a form In-Reply-To: <007901c40d25$bb0478c0$1a4e2d3e@jester> References: <000f01c40c73$f596f560$214e2d3e@jester> <1048451652.20040318111843@cactus.dk> <007901c40d25$bb0478c0$1a4e2d3e@jester> Message-ID: <177911540.20040319085855@cactus.dk> Hi Bert-Jan You can do that, of course, but it is preferable to solve a problem by its root. /gustav > Gustav, > thanks for your answer. I keep forgetting textboxes only contain text... i > think i will forget it this time again... ;-) > The maximum is 2 decimals so that is no problem. But since the differences > was at the 15th decimal (although i only tested this 1 time...) I decide to > add round([calculation];2) in the total field. I think this is ok because i > know only numers with 2 decimals are entered.... > Bert-Jan > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Gustav Brock" > To: "Access Developers discussion and problem solving" > > Sent: Thursday, March 18, 2004 11:18 AM > Subject: Re: [AccessD] Strange results with simple calculation on a form >> Hi Bert-Jan >> >> Welcome back. >> >> Unbound textboxes contain text no matter how you format them. >> And decimals may not be exact Doubles and indeed not Singles. >> >> If you can accept a maximum of four decimals, use CCur(txtYourTextbox) >> to convert to Currency before doing any calculation or comparison. >> Else use CDbl() and compare to a max. tolerance of your choice: >> >> If Abs(dblTotal - dblAmount) < 1E-7 Then >> ' Values are equal. >> End If >> >> /gustav >> >> >> > Hi all, >> >> > i was forced to unsubscribe a while ago because i couldn't keep up with you >> > and all the messages... ;-) >> >> > But today a strange thing happened i had to ask you all about. I didn't do a >> > big search on the internet, but searched the accessd archives and didn't >> > find it. It maybe is a well known problem, but here it goes..... >> >> > I have an unbound form where users will type amounts. All the txtboxes' >> > format are set to "standard" and the decimal places is set to 2. And i check >> > on the before_update event of these txtboxes if there are more then 2 >> > decimals, if so, cancel = true. There is an calculated total control >> > (txtTotal) wich has a controlsource like =[txtbox1]+[txtbox2] and so on (in >> > total 12 txtboxes) >> > These txtboxes are used to 'split up' the amount in another txtbox. >> > (txtAmount) >> >> > Before saving i check if txtAmount = txtTotal. When no decimals are used >> > there is no problem, if there are only used decimals in 1 txtbox there is no >> > problem. But if there are used decimals in more txtboxes access will tell me >> > the values are not the same..... although the same values are shown... it >> > turns out there is a difference of: 0.00000000000000710542735!!!!!! >> > (debug.print told me this!) >> >> > When i use the same 'function' in VBA it works fine with the same >> > values....???? >> >> > So it is not a real problem, but it IS something strange... wel to me it >> > is.... >> >> > Thanks in advance. >> >> > Hope to keep up with you this time... ;-) >> >> > Bert-Jan From thevigil at kabelfoon.nl Fri Mar 19 03:54:53 2004 From: thevigil at kabelfoon.nl (Bert-Jan Brinkhuis) Date: Fri, 19 Mar 2004 10:54:53 +0100 Subject: [AccessD] Strange results with simple calculation on a form References: <000f01c40c73$f596f560$214e2d3e@jester><1048451652.20040318111843@cactus.dk><007901c40d25$bb0478c0$1a4e2d3e@jester> <177911540.20040319085855@cactus.dk> Message-ID: <004a01c40d98$42f10ba0$1a4e2d3e@jester> Gustav, yes you are right.... but i there is a deadline.... and when it works i choose the less time consuming solution.... ;-) Bert-Jan ----- Original Message ----- From: "Gustav Brock" To: "Access Developers discussion and problem solving" Sent: Friday, March 19, 2004 8:58 AM Subject: Re: [AccessD] Strange results with simple calculation on a form > Hi Bert-Jan > > You can do that, of course, but it is preferable to solve a problem by its root. > > /gustav > > > > Gustav, > > > thanks for your answer. I keep forgetting textboxes only contain text... i > > think i will forget it this time again... ;-) > > The maximum is 2 decimals so that is no problem. But since the differences > > was at the 15th decimal (although i only tested this 1 time...) I decide to > > add round([calculation];2) in the total field. I think this is ok because i > > know only numers with 2 decimals are entered.... > > > Bert-Jan > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: "Gustav Brock" > > To: "Access Developers discussion and problem solving" > > > > Sent: Thursday, March 18, 2004 11:18 AM > > Subject: Re: [AccessD] Strange results with simple calculation on a form > > > >> Hi Bert-Jan > >> > >> Welcome back. > >> > >> Unbound textboxes contain text no matter how you format them. > >> And decimals may not be exact Doubles and indeed not Singles. > >> > >> If you can accept a maximum of four decimals, use CCur(txtYourTextbox) > >> to convert to Currency before doing any calculation or comparison. > >> Else use CDbl() and compare to a max. tolerance of your choice: > >> > >> If Abs(dblTotal - dblAmount) < 1E-7 Then > >> ' Values are equal. > >> End If > >> > >> /gustav > >> > >> > >> > Hi all, > >> > >> > i was forced to unsubscribe a while ago because i couldn't keep up with you > >> > and all the messages... ;-) > >> > >> > But today a strange thing happened i had to ask you all about. I didn't do a > >> > big search on the internet, but searched the accessd archives and didn't > >> > find it. It maybe is a well known problem, but here it goes..... > >> > >> > I have an unbound form where users will type amounts. All the txtboxes' > >> > format are set to "standard" and the decimal places is set to 2. And i check > >> > on the before_update event of these txtboxes if there are more then 2 > >> > decimals, if so, cancel = true. There is an calculated total control > >> > (txtTotal) wich has a controlsource like =[txtbox1]+[txtbox2] and so on (in > >> > total 12 txtboxes) > >> > These txtboxes are used to 'split up' the amount in another txtbox. > >> > (txtAmount) > >> > >> > Before saving i check if txtAmount = txtTotal. When no decimals are used > >> > there is no problem, if there are only used decimals in 1 txtbox there is no > >> > problem. But if there are used decimals in more txtboxes access will tell me > >> > the values are not the same..... although the same values are shown... it > >> > turns out there is a difference of: 0.00000000000000710542735!!!!!! > >> > (debug.print told me this!) > >> > >> > When i use the same 'function' in VBA it works fine with the same > >> > values....???? > >> > >> > So it is not a real problem, but it IS something strange... wel to me it > >> > is.... > >> > >> > Thanks in advance. > >> > >> > Hope to keep up with you this time... ;-) > >> > >> > Bert-Jan > > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From Subscriptions at servicexp.com Fri Mar 19 06:18:17 2004 From: Subscriptions at servicexp.com (Robert Gracie) Date: Fri, 19 Mar 2004 07:18:17 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] zip/unzip In-Reply-To: Message-ID: John, I just can't wait....I need to know....:-) How did you reference the .dll in Access. Access (A2K) Keeps Telling me it can't reference it.??? Robert Gracie www.servicexp.com -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of John W. Colby Sent: Thursday, March 18, 2004 9:02 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] zip/unzip OK, I got it working. It was page faulting because I wasn't setting up required properties before trying the zip, little things like the name of the zip file, the name of the object to zip etc. Once I set those properties, it works fine. The zipped file can be read by Winzip. Cool stuff and will be part of the next framework demo article I'm working on tonight. >Ah, that jiggles some demagnetized memory bits! You my dear friend are OLD it would seem. Are you by any chance referring to core memory? I actually worked on computers with core memory back in my Navy days. Massive Sperry Univac 642/B refrigerator sized "mainframes", 36 bit with 32 kwords of core memory and a lightening fast 4 microsecond instruction time (256 k instructions / second). John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of John W. Colby Sent: Thursday, March 18, 2004 6:29 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] zip/unzip I put them in System32 and the app page faults and closes Access if I try and run the zip stuff/ -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of John Bartow Sent: Thursday, March 18, 2004 5:11 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] zip/unzip Ah, that jiggles some demagnetized memory bits! I think thats the ticket, John -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From HollisVJ at pgdp.usec.com Fri Mar 19 06:55:11 2004 From: HollisVJ at pgdp.usec.com (Hollis,Virginia) Date: Fri, 19 Mar 2004 06:55:11 -0600 Subject: [AccessD] Don't want a required entry Message-ID: <618EB4D6DDCDD3119B0A00508B6FD37A0CB0D380@cntexchange.pgdp.usec.com> What makes a table require an entry? I do not have any of the fields in the table set to Required. When I set up the tables, I used the Enforce Referential Integrity - I removed this thinking it was the problem, but it did not make a difference. For example, when I enter a request, I enter a requestor, but do not want to enter the name of the buyer because the requestor will not know who it will be assigned to. It will not let me move to another record unless I enter the name of the buyer. Any ideas? Virginia From HollisVJ at pgdp.usec.com Fri Mar 19 06:56:58 2004 From: HollisVJ at pgdp.usec.com (Hollis,Virginia) Date: Fri, 19 Mar 2004 06:56:58 -0600 Subject: [AccessD] Set up tables - Please Help Message-ID: <618EB4D6DDCDD3119B0A00508B6FD37A0CB0D381@cntexchange.pgdp.usec.com> Drew, Everything I send you is returned. Virginia Sorry list for the Offline post. -----Original Message----- From: DWUTKA at marlow.com [mailto:DWUTKA at marlow.com] Sent: Tuesday, March 16, 2004 1:59 PM To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: RE: [AccessD] Set up tables - Please Help I think I really need to take a look at what you are trying to do. Can you send it to me offlist? I won't have a chance to look at it until later this week, or on the weekend. Drew -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Hollis,Virginia Sent: Tuesday, March 16, 2004 6:28 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: [AccessD] Set up tables - Please Help This is all taken from a hard copy of the current request form. The buyer completes the vendor request form with the vendor information. The form is used to add the new vendor information into a main database. The form provides the vendors name, billing information, type of business, etc. It does not list any items the company will buy from this vendor. Once the vendor information is added, then the company will issue POs, contracts to the new vendor (not part of this database). They just want to track the requests from the buyers. The form contains a lot of information about the vendor. When I create all the tables and join them to create a form for entering the information, it either comes up blank (no records) or I can't add any new records, one try it kept knocking my query out - I think because it was too long. Virginia -----Original Message----- From: DWUTKA at marlow.com [mailto:DWUTKA at marlow.com] Sent: Monday, March 15, 2004 3:45 PM To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: RE: [AccessD] Set up tables - Please Help Virginia, I think you are confusing Vendor with Purchase Order. A Vendor is just a peice of a Purchase Order, not the other way around. Drew -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Hollis,Virginia Sent: Saturday, March 13, 2004 10:46 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: [AccessD] Set up tables - Please Help tbl_Vendor contains all the data for the vendor; address, company name, etc. tbl_VendorMain could really be named tbl_RequestMain. tbl_VendorMain is where I thought I would store the combination of the data - VendorID, ContactID, BuyerID, RequestorID, DateRequested. -----Original Message----- From: Susan Harkins [mailto:ssharkins at bellsouth.net] Sent: Saturday, March 13, 2004 10:38 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: [AccessD] Set up tables - Please Help What's the difference between tbl_Vendor and tbl_VendorMain? Susan H. I have one table for each - tbl_Buyer, tbl_Contacts, tbl_Requestor, tbl_TypeBusiness, tbl_Vendor, tbl_VendorMain, tbl_Accounts. Tables buyer, vendor contacts, requestor store just the typical name, phone number, etc. -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From paul.hartland at fsmail.net Fri Mar 19 07:06:37 2004 From: paul.hartland at fsmail.net (paul.hartland at fsmail.net) Date: Fri, 19 Mar 2004 14:06:37 +0100 (CET) Subject: [AccessD] Don't want a required entry Message-ID: <28908203.1079701597208.JavaMail.www@wwinf3002> Virginia, Allow Zero Length may be your problem, try setting this to Yes. Paul Message date : Mar 19 2004, 12:57 PM >From : "Hollis,Virginia" To : "'accessd at databaseadvisors.com'" Copy to : Subject : [AccessD] Don't want a required entry What makes a table require an entry? I do not have any of the fields in the table set to Required. When I set up the tables, I used the Enforce Referential Integrity - I removed this thinking it was the problem, but it did not make a difference. For example, when I enter a request, I enter a requestor, but do not want to enter the name of the buyer because the requestor will not know who it will be assigned to. It will not let me move to another record unless I enter the name of the buyer. Any ideas? Virginia -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com Freeserve AnyTime - HALF PRICE for the first 3 months - Save ?7.50 a month www.freeserve.com/anytime From jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com Fri Mar 19 07:19:52 2004 From: jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com (John W. Colby) Date: Fri, 19 Mar 2004 08:19:52 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] zip/unzip In-Reply-To: Message-ID: I don't reference it at all, the zip / unzip code just uses the dll. It's all magic to me. The code for a form that uses it with a button that zips a file (hard coded filename): Option Compare Database Option Explicit 'Create a variable to hold the zip class Dim fclsZip As dclsZip Private Sub Form_Close() 'cleanup the pointer to the class Set fclsZip = Nothing End Sub Private Sub Form_Open(Cancel As Integer) 'setup a pointer to the class Set fclsZip = New dclsZip End Sub Private Sub cmdZipTheFile_Click() On Error GoTo Err_cmdZipTheFile_Click fclsZip.ZipFile = CurrentProject.Path & "\" & "TextZipDemoCtlClassV2.Zip" fclsZip.AddFileSpec CurrentProject.Path & "\" & "DemoCtlClassV2.mdb" fclsZip.Zip Exit_cmdZipTheFile_Click: Exit Sub Err_cmdZipTheFile_Click: MsgBox Err.Description, , "Error in Sub Form_frmDemoZip.cmdZipTheFile_Click" Resume Exit_cmdZipTheFile_Click Resume 0 '.FOR TROUBLESHOOTING End Sub That code works. If you fail to specify the "ZipFile" or the "AddFileSpec" the application page faults. There is NO error handling or checking of any kind inside the zip code. 8-( John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Robert Gracie Sent: Friday, March 19, 2004 7:18 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] zip/unzip John, I just can't wait....I need to know....:-) How did you reference the .dll in Access. Access (A2K) Keeps Telling me it can't reference it.??? Robert Gracie www.servicexp.com -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of John W. Colby Sent: Thursday, March 18, 2004 9:02 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] zip/unzip OK, I got it working. It was page faulting because I wasn't setting up required properties before trying the zip, little things like the name of the zip file, the name of the object to zip etc. Once I set those properties, it works fine. The zipped file can be read by Winzip. Cool stuff and will be part of the next framework demo article I'm working on tonight. >Ah, that jiggles some demagnetized memory bits! You my dear friend are OLD it would seem. Are you by any chance referring to core memory? I actually worked on computers with core memory back in my Navy days. Massive Sperry Univac 642/B refrigerator sized "mainframes", 36 bit with 32 kwords of core memory and a lightening fast 4 microsecond instruction time (256 k instructions / second). John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of John W. Colby Sent: Thursday, March 18, 2004 6:29 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] zip/unzip I put them in System32 and the app page faults and closes Access if I try and run the zip stuff/ -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of John Bartow Sent: Thursday, March 18, 2004 5:11 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] zip/unzip Ah, that jiggles some demagnetized memory bits! I think thats the ticket, John -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From HollisVJ at pgdp.usec.com Fri Mar 19 07:34:44 2004 From: HollisVJ at pgdp.usec.com (Hollis,Virginia) Date: Fri, 19 Mar 2004 07:34:44 -0600 Subject: [AccessD] Don't want a required entry Message-ID: <618EB4D6DDCDD3119B0A00508B6FD37A0CB0D385@cntexchange.pgdp.usec.com> I set the Allow Zero Length to Yes & it still requires an entry. Do I have to do this for every table? -----Original Message----- From: paul.hartland at fsmail.net [mailto:paul.hartland at fsmail.net] Sent: Friday, March 19, 2004 7:07 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Don't want a required entry Virginia, Allow Zero Length may be your problem, try setting this to Yes. Paul Message date : Mar 19 2004, 12:57 PM >From : "Hollis,Virginia" To : "'accessd at databaseadvisors.com'" Copy to : Subject : [AccessD] Don't want a required entry What makes a table require an entry? I do not have any of the fields in the table set to Required. When I set up the tables, I used the Enforce Referential Integrity - I removed this thinking it was the problem, but it did not make a difference. For example, when I enter a request, I enter a requestor, but do not want to enter the name of the buyer because the requestor will not know who it will be assigned to. It will not let me move to another record unless I enter the name of the buyer. Any ideas? Virginia -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com Freeserve AnyTime - HALF PRICE for the first 3 months - Save ?7.50 a month www.freeserve.com/anytime -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From paul.hartland at fsmail.net Fri Mar 19 07:40:34 2004 From: paul.hartland at fsmail.net (paul.hartland at fsmail.net) Date: Fri, 19 Mar 2004 14:40:34 +0100 (CET) Subject: [AccessD] Don't want a required entry Message-ID: <26289198.1079703634065.JavaMail.www@wwinf3002> with out knowing more about the application etc I can't say Message date : Mar 19 2004, 01:38 PM >From : "Hollis,Virginia" To : "'Access Developers discussion and problem solving'" Copy to : Subject : RE: [AccessD] Don't want a required entry I set the Allow Zero Length to Yes & it still requires an entry. Do I have to do this for every table? -----Original Message----- From: paul.hartland at fsmail.net [mailto:paul.hartland at fsmail.net] Sent: Friday, March 19, 2004 7:07 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Don't want a required entry Virginia, Allow Zero Length may be your problem, try setting this to Yes. Paul Message date : Mar 19 2004, 12:57 PM >From : "Hollis,Virginia" To : "'accessd at databaseadvisors.com'" Copy to : Subject : [AccessD] Don't want a required entry What makes a table require an entry? I do not have any of the fields in the table set to Required. When I set up the tables, I used the Enforce Referential Integrity - I removed this thinking it was the problem, but it did not make a difference. For example, when I enter a request, I enter a requestor, but do not want to enter the name of the buyer because the requestor will not know who it will be assigned to. It will not let me move to another record unless I enter the name of the buyer. Any ideas? Virginia -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com Freeserve AnyTime - HALF PRICE for the first 3 months - Save ?7.50 a month www.freeserve.com/anytime -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com Freeserve AnyTime - HALF PRICE for the first 3 months - Save ?7.50 a month www.freeserve.com/anytime From R.Griffiths at bury.gov.uk Fri Mar 19 07:42:41 2004 From: R.Griffiths at bury.gov.uk (Griffiths, Richard) Date: Fri, 19 Mar 2004 13:42:41 -0000 Subject: [AccessD] zip/unzip Message-ID: Quick question - do you if this zip utility can span disks? -----Original Message----- From: John W. Colby [mailto:jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com] Sent: 19 March 2004 13:20 To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] zip/unzip I don't reference it at all, the zip / unzip code just uses the dll. It's all magic to me. The code for a form that uses it with a button that zips a file (hard coded filename): Option Compare Database Option Explicit 'Create a variable to hold the zip class Dim fclsZip As dclsZip Private Sub Form_Close() 'cleanup the pointer to the class Set fclsZip = Nothing End Sub Private Sub Form_Open(Cancel As Integer) 'setup a pointer to the class Set fclsZip = New dclsZip End Sub Private Sub cmdZipTheFile_Click() On Error GoTo Err_cmdZipTheFile_Click fclsZip.ZipFile = CurrentProject.Path & "\" & "TextZipDemoCtlClassV2.Zip" fclsZip.AddFileSpec CurrentProject.Path & "\" & "DemoCtlClassV2.mdb" fclsZip.Zip Exit_cmdZipTheFile_Click: Exit Sub Err_cmdZipTheFile_Click: MsgBox Err.Description, , "Error in Sub Form_frmDemoZip.cmdZipTheFile_Click" Resume Exit_cmdZipTheFile_Click Resume 0 '.FOR TROUBLESHOOTING End Sub That code works. If you fail to specify the "ZipFile" or the "AddFileSpec" the application page faults. There is NO error handling or checking of any kind inside the zip code. 8-( John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Robert Gracie Sent: Friday, March 19, 2004 7:18 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] zip/unzip John, I just can't wait....I need to know....:-) How did you reference the .dll in Access. Access (A2K) Keeps Telling me it can't reference it.??? Robert Gracie www.servicexp.com -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of John W. Colby Sent: Thursday, March 18, 2004 9:02 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] zip/unzip OK, I got it working. It was page faulting because I wasn't setting up required properties before trying the zip, little things like the name of the zip file, the name of the object to zip etc. Once I set those properties, it works fine. The zipped file can be read by Winzip. Cool stuff and will be part of the next framework demo article I'm working on tonight. >Ah, that jiggles some demagnetized memory bits! You my dear friend are OLD it would seem. Are you by any chance referring to core memory? I actually worked on computers with core memory back in my Navy days. Massive Sperry Univac 642/B refrigerator sized "mainframes", 36 bit with 32 kwords of core memory and a lightening fast 4 microsecond instruction time (256 k instructions / second). John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of John W. Colby Sent: Thursday, March 18, 2004 6:29 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] zip/unzip I put them in System32 and the app page faults and closes Access if I try and run the zip stuff/ -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of John Bartow Sent: Thursday, March 18, 2004 5:11 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] zip/unzip Ah, that jiggles some demagnetized memory bits! I think thats the ticket, John -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From Bryan_Carbonnell at cbc.ca Fri Mar 19 07:48:09 2004 From: Bryan_Carbonnell at cbc.ca (Bryan Carbonnell) Date: Fri, 19 Mar 2004 08:48:09 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Cascading Combos Message-ID: Actually the ()'s and ""'s are mine for the e-mail (Don't know why I put both) . The actual SQL Statement was a direct copy and paste from the SQL view if the QBE grid. Bryan Carbonnell bryan_carbonnell at cbc.ca >>> mikedorism at adelphia.net 18-Mar-04 4:23:45 PM >>> Now, as soon as I try to change the rowsource of cboReason to filter based on cboReasonType ("SELECT ReasonID, ReasonType_FK, ReasonDescription, ReasonDiscontinued FROM tblReason WHERE (tblReason.ReasonType_FK=[Forms]![sfmEditIncidentDetails]![cboReasonType]);" ) I end up with blanks in both cboReason and cboReasonType. What am I missing? You are missing the fact that you referred to the form inside the quotes instead of outside. Try... "SELECT ReasonID, ReasonType_FK, ReasonDescription, ReasonDiscontinued FROM tblReason WHERE(tblReason.ReasonType_FK=" & [Forms]![sfmEditIncidentDetails]![cboReasonType]) Doris Manning Database Administrator Hargrove Inc. www.hargroveinc.com -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Bryan Carbonnell Sent: Thursday, March 18, 2004 3:10 PM To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: [AccessD] Cascading Combos I'm stuck and need some help. I think I've been thinking and working on this problem too long. I can't see what I'm missing. I have 3 tables: tblIncident ----------- IncidentID (AutoNum PK) IncidentReasonID_FK (Long) .... tblReason ---------- ReasonID (AutoNum PK) ReasonDescription (Text) ReasonTypeID_FK (Long) ReasonDiscontinued (Boolean) tblReasonType --------------- ReasonTypeID (AutoNum PK) ReasonTypeDescription (Text) ReasonTypeDiscontinued (Boolean) tblIncident is a 1-M with tblReason on ReasonID_FK=ReasonID tblReason is a M-1 with tblReasonType one ReasonTypeID_FK=ReasonTypeID What I am trying to do is create cascading combos on an edit only form. No additions or deletions. Just editing The form is based on a query that pulls the data from tblIncident cboReasonType is the ReasonType and is not bound bboReason is Limited to only those Reasons that have a ReasonTypeID_FK = cboReasonType and is bound to IncidentReasonID_FK So Far So good. Now I have cboReasonType's rowsource to be a query that includes all of the ReasonTypes (SELECT ReasonTypeID, ReasonTypeDescription, ReasonTypeDiscontinued FROM tblReasonType;) cboReason's rowsource is a query with the SQL "SELECT ReasonID, ReasonType_FK, ReasonDescription, ReasonDiscontinued FROM tblReason;" In the Current Event of the forms I have: 'Set the Reason Type cboReasonType = cboReason.Column(1) So as I navigate to the various records, I get the value of the RecordType Combo correct. Now, as soon as I try to change the rowsource of cboReason to filter based on cboReasonType ("SELECT ReasonID, ReasonType_FK, ReasonDescription, ReasonDiscontinued FROM tblReason WHERE (tblReason.ReasonType_FK=[Forms]![sfmEditIncidentDetails]![cboReasonType]);" ) I end up with blanks in both cboReason and cboReasonType. What am I missing? Is it that cboReason's RowSource is dependant on cboReasonType's value, which is in turn based on cboReason's value? If that is the problem, and now that I have typed this all out, I think it is, how the heck do I make it do what I want?? From Bryan_Carbonnell at cbc.ca Fri Mar 19 07:52:33 2004 From: Bryan_Carbonnell at cbc.ca (Bryan Carbonnell) Date: Fri, 19 Mar 2004 08:52:33 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Cascading Combos Message-ID: The second combo, cboReason, is a bound control. So if I set it to Null, I lose the value that is entered. Not the preferred thing to do :)) Bryan Carbonnell bryan_carbonnell at cbc.ca >>> dmcafee at pacbell.net 18-Mar-04 4:33:17 PM >>> Why not set the rowsource of the second combobox on enter? cbo2ndBox_OnEnter() me.cbo2ndBox.rowsource = "Select fields from table where foreignKey = " & me.cbo1stBox.column(0) End sub then on enter or after update of cbo1, clear cbo2 me.cbo2ndBox = null -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Bryan Carbonnell Sent: Thursday, March 18, 2004 12:10 PM To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: [AccessD] Cascading Combos I'm stuck and need some help. I think I've been thinking and working on this problem too long. I can't see what I'm missing. I have 3 tables: tblIncident ----------- IncidentID (AutoNum PK) IncidentReasonID_FK (Long) .... tblReason ---------- ReasonID (AutoNum PK) ReasonDescription (Text) ReasonTypeID_FK (Long) ReasonDiscontinued (Boolean) tblReasonType --------------- ReasonTypeID (AutoNum PK) ReasonTypeDescription (Text) ReasonTypeDiscontinued (Boolean) tblIncident is a 1-M with tblReason on ReasonID_FK=ReasonID tblReason is a M-1 with tblReasonType one ReasonTypeID_FK=ReasonTypeID What I am trying to do is create cascading combos on an edit only form. No additions or deletions. Just editing The form is based on a query that pulls the data from tblIncident cboReasonType is the ReasonType and is not bound bboReason is Limited to only those Reasons that have a ReasonTypeID_FK = cboReasonType and is bound to IncidentReasonID_FK So Far So good. Now I have cboReasonType's rowsource to be a query that includes all of the ReasonTypes (SELECT ReasonTypeID, ReasonTypeDescription, ReasonTypeDiscontinued FROM tblReasonType;) cboReason's rowsource is a query with the SQL "SELECT ReasonID, ReasonType_FK, ReasonDescription, ReasonDiscontinued FROM tblReason;" In the Current Event of the forms I have: 'Set the Reason Type cboReasonType = cboReason.Column(1) So as I navigate to the various records, I get the value of the RecordType Combo correct. Now, as soon as I try to change the rowsource of cboReason to filter based on cboReasonType ("SELECT ReasonID, ReasonType_FK, ReasonDescription, ReasonDiscontinued FROM tblReason WHERE (tblReason.ReasonType_FK=[Forms]![sfmEditIncidentDetails]![cboReasonType]);" ) I end up with blanks in both cboReason and cboReasonType. What am I missing? Is it that cboReason's RowSource is dependant on cboReasonType's value, which is in turn based on cboReason's value? If that is the problem, and now that I have typed this all out, I think it is, how the heck do I make it do what I want?? Thanks, Bryan Carbonnell bryan_carbonnell at cbc.ca From Bryan_Carbonnell at cbc.ca Fri Mar 19 07:54:41 2004 From: Bryan_Carbonnell at cbc.ca (Bryan Carbonnell) Date: Fri, 19 Mar 2004 08:54:41 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] OT Wrist/Arm Pain - was Short Date Input Mask quest ion Message-ID: OH NO!!!!! I though Fluffy and Fang liked to lounge over in the Lounge?? Now you're bringing them here!??!?!?!? Run!! Hide!!! Lock up your children!!! Bryan Carbonnell bryan_carbonnell at cbc.ca >>> cfoust at infostatsystems.com 18-Mar-04 4:44:29 PM >>> Grrrr! All right, the gloves are off! I'm sending for the Access enforcers, Fluffy and Fang, to come and break your legs! Charlotte Foust -----Original Message----- From: David McAfee (Home) [mailto:dmcafee at pacbell.net] Sent: Thursday, March 18, 2004 1:37 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] OT Wrist/Arm Pain - was Short Date Input Mask quest ion Dan, she got mad because someone made fun of her when typing on a split keyboard. They said she looked like she was doing the chicken dance with her elbows out there like open doors :P Who hurt you Charlotte? :) (Is it Friday yet?) From john at winhaven.net Fri Mar 19 07:55:28 2004 From: john at winhaven.net (John Bartow) Date: Fri, 19 Mar 2004 07:55:28 -0600 Subject: [AccessD] zip/unzip In-Reply-To: Message-ID: :o) -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of John W. Colby Sent: Thursday, March 18, 2004 8:02 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] zip/unzip OK, I got it working. It was page faulting because I wasn't setting up required properties before trying the zip, little things like the name of the zip file, the name of the object to zip etc. Once I set those properties, it works fine. The zipped file can be read by Winzip. Cool stuff and will be part of the next framework demo article I'm working on tonight. >Ah, that jiggles some demagnetized memory bits! You my dear friend are OLD it would seem. Are you by any chance referring to core memory? I actually worked on computers with core memory back in my Navy days. Massive Sperry Univac 642/B refrigerator sized "mainframes", 36 bit with 32 kwords of core memory and a lightening fast 4 microsecond instruction time (256 k instructions / second). John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com From my.lists at verizon.net Fri Mar 19 08:59:30 2004 From: my.lists at verizon.net (Francisco H Tapia) Date: Fri, 19 Mar 2004 06:59:30 -0800 Subject: [AccessD] New EMail Address In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <405B0AD2.8080001@verizon.net> So how many of these are you sending out? John W. Colby wrote: >Anyone who has me in their address book should note that my email address >has changed to jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com (notice the W). I have turned >off jcolby at colbyconsulting.com due to an overwhelming flood of spam, >approaching 300 spam emails a day. While my email filter was extremely >accurate in getting them out of my inbox there is the occasional (1 in 500 >or so) false positives where a good email gets put out in the spam folder. >It is getting very hard to find them so it's time to just shut that email >box down. > >Sorry for the inconvenience. > > -- -Francisco From rl_stewart at highstream.net Fri Mar 19 09:15:01 2004 From: rl_stewart at highstream.net (Robert L. Stewart) Date: Fri, 19 Mar 2004 09:15:01 -0600 Subject: [AccessD] Re: Mixed Versions In-Reply-To: <200403190205.i2J25VM10881@databaseadvisors.com> Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20040319091414.029fbe18@pop3.highstream.net> Rocky, He should be able to run it under 2002 with out any conversion. He just cannot change any of the programming objects. Robert At 08:05 PM 3/18/2004 -0600, you wrote: >Date: Thu, 18 Mar 2004 17:39:12 -0800 >From: "Rocky Smolin - Beach Access Software" >Subject: [AccessD] Mixed Versions >To: >Message-ID: <01fb01c40d52$fb8ba990$6601a8c0 at HAL9002> >Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" > >Dear List: > >I have a client running one of my old A97 apps FE and BE. He wants me to >supply an FE that will run on a machine with AXP or A2003 > >I have A2K. If I convert my A97 FE to A2K and make an mde out of it, will >the mde run on a box with AXP and/or A2003 and be able to read/write the >A97 BE? > >MTIA, > >Rocky Smolin >Beach Access Software From jmhla at earthlink.net Fri Mar 19 09:21:42 2004 From: jmhla at earthlink.net (Joe Hecht) Date: Fri, 19 Mar 2004 07:21:42 -0800 Subject: [AccessD] Spam Filter was New EMail Address In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <000001c40dc5$e5b04770$6501a8c0@delllaptop> I have been using Mail Washer as a spam filter and successfully reduced my spam load. You download your e-mail into a new window. You can go in and mark the spam and it gets bounced back as a bad address. You can either mark 1 address or an entire domain as spam. Click one button to process the mail and it then downloads into your e-mail client. JOE HECHT LOS ANGELES CA -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of John W. Colby Sent: Thursday, March 18, 2004 7:59 PM To: AccessD Subject: [AccessD] New EMail Address Anyone who has me in their address book should note that my email address has changed to jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com (notice the W). I have turned off jcolby at colbyconsulting.com due to an overwhelming flood of spam, approaching 300 spam emails a day. While my email filter was extremely accurate in getting them out of my inbox there is the occasional (1 in 500 or so) false positives where a good email gets put out in the spam folder. It is getting very hard to find them so it's time to just shut that email box down. Sorry for the inconvenience. John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From bchacc at san.rr.com Fri Mar 19 09:28:07 2004 From: bchacc at san.rr.com (Rocky Smolin - Beach Access Software) Date: Fri, 19 Mar 2004 07:28:07 -0800 Subject: [AccessD] Re: Mixed Versions References: <5.1.0.14.2.20040319091414.029fbe18@pop3.highstream.net> Message-ID: <002501c40dc6$c8014a70$6601a8c0@HAL9002> Robert: Thanks. Do you know about A2003? Can an mde created under A2000 run under A2003 and see an A97 back end? MTIA, Rocky Smolin Beach Access Software http://www.e-z-mrp.com ----- Original Message ----- From: "Robert L. Stewart" To: Sent: Friday, March 19, 2004 7:15 AM Subject: [AccessD] Re: Mixed Versions > Rocky, > > He should be able to run it under 2002 with out any conversion. > He just cannot change any of the programming objects. > > Robert > > At 08:05 PM 3/18/2004 -0600, you wrote: > >Date: Thu, 18 Mar 2004 17:39:12 -0800 > >From: "Rocky Smolin - Beach Access Software" > >Subject: [AccessD] Mixed Versions > >To: > >Message-ID: <01fb01c40d52$fb8ba990$6601a8c0 at HAL9002> > >Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" > > > >Dear List: > > > >I have a client running one of my old A97 apps FE and BE. He wants me to > >supply an FE that will run on a machine with AXP or A2003 > > > >I have A2K. If I convert my A97 FE to A2K and make an mde out of it, will > >the mde run on a box with AXP and/or A2003 and be able to read/write the > >A97 BE? > > > >MTIA, > > > >Rocky Smolin > >Beach Access Software > > > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > From my.lists at verizon.net Fri Mar 19 09:37:24 2004 From: my.lists at verizon.net (Francisco H Tapia) Date: Fri, 19 Mar 2004 07:37:24 -0800 Subject: [AccessD] Spam Filter was New EMail Address In-Reply-To: <000001c40dc5$e5b04770$6501a8c0@delllaptop> References: <000001c40dc5$e5b04770$6501a8c0@delllaptop> Message-ID: <405B13B4.5000803@verizon.net> Spam and Email filtering is a serious and interesting topic, I'm moving the thread to the dba-tech list where it can continue to grow :), Thanks, Joe Hecht wrote: >I have been using Mail Washer as a spam filter and successfully reduced >my spam load. > >You download your e-mail into a new window. You can go in and mark the >spam and it gets bounced back as a bad address. You can either mark 1 >address or an entire domain as spam. Click one button to process the >mail and it then downloads into your e-mail client. > > >JOE HECHT >LOS ANGELES CA > > >-----Original Message----- >From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com >[mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of John W. Colby >Sent: Thursday, March 18, 2004 7:59 PM >To: AccessD >Subject: [AccessD] New EMail Address > >Anyone who has me in their address book should note that my email >address >has changed to jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com (notice the W). I have >turned >off jcolby at colbyconsulting.com due to an overwhelming flood of spam, >approaching 300 spam emails a day. While my email filter was extremely >accurate in getting them out of my inbox there is the occasional (1 in >500 >or so) false positives where a good email gets put out in the spam >folder. >It is getting very hard to find them so it's time to just shut that >email >box down. > >Sorry for the inconvenience. > >John W. Colby >www.ColbyConsulting.com > > > > -- -Francisco From lister at actuarial-files.com Fri Mar 19 09:43:14 2004 From: lister at actuarial-files.com (Ralf Lister) Date: Fri, 19 Mar 2004 11:43:14 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] New EMail Address References: Message-ID: <00b801c40dc9$4c3a4010$66976bce@ralf> Hello Jim, I'm not an expert in JavaScript, but for me it seems that the JavaScript has an "user" extra, or? After the "@" there should come "+ site + '\">');" in this very line. Saludos desde Bolivia Ralf ----- Original Message ----- From: "Jim Lawrence (AccessD)" To: "Access Developers discussion and problem solving" Sent: Friday, March 19, 2004 12:27 AM Subject: RE: [AccessD] New EMail Address > Hi John: > > Do not forget to set up your new address in the contact section of your web > site as follows so spam-bots will not be able just extract it. (It does not > matter what shows on the screen, it is what is in the page code that the > 'bots' search for.) > > > > HTH > Jim > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of John W. Colby > Sent: Thursday, March 18, 2004 7:59 PM > To: AccessD > Subject: [AccessD] New EMail Address > > > Anyone who has me in their address book should note that my email address > has changed to jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com (notice the W). I have turned > off jcolby at colbyconsulting.com due to an overwhelming flood of spam, > approaching 300 spam emails a day. While my email filter was extremely > accurate in getting them out of my inbox there is the occasional (1 in 500 > or so) false positives where a good email gets put out in the spam folder. > It is getting very hard to find them so it's time to just shut that email > box down. > > Sorry for the inconvenience. > > John W. Colby > www.ColbyConsulting.com > > > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > From accessd at shaw.ca Fri Mar 19 09:48:13 2004 From: accessd at shaw.ca (Jim Lawrence (AccessD)) Date: Fri, 19 Mar 2004 07:48:13 -0800 Subject: [AccessD] New EMail Address In-Reply-To: Message-ID: John: I have not seen that one or heard comments on the same, for that purpose... do you mean something like: %74%79%72%78%32%67%79%66%89 ? Why would anyone turn java script off. Most pages on the web would simple not work. Jim -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of John W. Colby Sent: Thursday, March 18, 2004 8:51 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] New EMail Address What happens if users have java turned off? I found something out there that turns the clear text into numeric codes, which the browser then turns back into alpha when "read". Does that work? John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Jim Lawrence (AccessD) Sent: Thursday, March 18, 2004 11:28 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] New EMail Address Hi John: Do not forget to set up your new address in the contact section of your web site as follows so spam-bots will not be able just extract it. (It does not matter what shows on the screen, it is what is in the page code that the 'bots' search for.) HTH Jim -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of John W. Colby Sent: Thursday, March 18, 2004 7:59 PM To: AccessD Subject: [AccessD] New EMail Address Anyone who has me in their address book should note that my email address has changed to jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com (notice the W). I have turned off jcolby at colbyconsulting.com due to an overwhelming flood of spam, approaching 300 spam emails a day. While my email filter was extremely accurate in getting them out of my inbox there is the occasional (1 in 500 or so) false positives where a good email gets put out in the spam folder. It is getting very hard to find them so it's time to just shut that email box down. Sorry for the inconvenience. John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From accessd at shaw.ca Fri Mar 19 09:49:59 2004 From: accessd at shaw.ca (Jim Lawrence (AccessD)) Date: Fri, 19 Mar 2004 07:49:59 -0800 Subject: [AccessD] New EMail Address In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Hi John: Yes, it can; an entire web site at once. Jim -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of John W. Colby Sent: Thursday, March 18, 2004 8:59 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] New EMail Address Does anyone know if Dreamweaver can do a search and replace throughout all of the html pages of a site do make a change like this? John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Jim Lawrence (AccessD) Sent: Thursday, March 18, 2004 11:28 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] New EMail Address Hi John: Do not forget to set up your new address in the contact section of your web site as follows so spam-bots will not be able just extract it. (It does not matter what shows on the screen, it is what is in the page code that the 'bots' search for.) HTH Jim -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of John W. Colby Sent: Thursday, March 18, 2004 7:59 PM To: AccessD Subject: [AccessD] New EMail Address Anyone who has me in their address book should note that my email address has changed to jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com (notice the W). I have turned off jcolby at colbyconsulting.com due to an overwhelming flood of spam, approaching 300 spam emails a day. While my email filter was extremely accurate in getting them out of my inbox there is the occasional (1 in 500 or so) false positives where a good email gets put out in the spam folder. It is getting very hard to find them so it's time to just shut that email box down. Sorry for the inconvenience. John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From bchacc at san.rr.com Fri Mar 19 09:51:46 2004 From: bchacc at san.rr.com (Rocky Smolin - Beach Access Software) Date: Fri, 19 Mar 2004 07:51:46 -0800 Subject: [AccessD] Form resizing Message-ID: <006001c40dca$1564f7f0$6601a8c0@HAL9002> Dear List: I'm using the form resizing code from the A97 ADH on an app that was originally developed in A97. It was then upgraded to A2K. There are now some issues with resizing at higher resolutions (I get a message that a control is too large for the form). The knottiest problem is the resizing of the controls on a sub form loaded onto a page of a tab form. I see that there is resizing code in the A2K ADH. Has anyone had any experience with this? Is it better? Does it handle things like resizing controls on a sub-form? MTIA Rocky Smolin Beach Access Software http://www.e-z-mrp.com From cfoust at infostatsystems.com Fri Mar 19 10:28:25 2004 From: cfoust at infostatsystems.com (Charlotte Foust) Date: Fri, 19 Mar 2004 08:28:25 -0800 Subject: [AccessD] OT Wrist/Arm Pain - was Short Date Input Mask quest ion Message-ID: Fluffy and Fang are very loyal to me. They follow me around like puppies ... Very LARGE, muscular puppies. Charlotte Foust -----Original Message----- From: Bryan Carbonnell [mailto:Bryan_Carbonnell at cbc.ca] Sent: Friday, March 19, 2004 5:55 AM To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: RE: [AccessD] OT Wrist/Arm Pain - was Short Date Input Mask quest ion OH NO!!!!! I though Fluffy and Fang liked to lounge over in the Lounge?? Now you're bringing them here!??!?!?!? Run!! Hide!!! Lock up your children!!! Bryan Carbonnell bryan_carbonnell at cbc.ca >>> cfoust at infostatsystems.com 18-Mar-04 4:44:29 PM >>> Grrrr! All right, the gloves are off! I'm sending for the Access enforcers, Fluffy and Fang, to come and break your legs! Charlotte Foust -----Original Message----- From: David McAfee (Home) [mailto:dmcafee at pacbell.net] Sent: Thursday, March 18, 2004 1:37 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] OT Wrist/Arm Pain - was Short Date Input Mask quest ion Dan, she got mad because someone made fun of her when typing on a split keyboard. They said she looked like she was doing the chicken dance with her elbows out there like open doors :P Who hurt you Charlotte? :) (Is it Friday yet?) -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From john at winhaven.net Fri Mar 19 10:46:14 2004 From: john at winhaven.net (John Bartow) Date: Fri, 19 Mar 2004 10:46:14 -0600 Subject: [AccessD] Mixed Versions In-Reply-To: <01fb01c40d52$fb8ba990$6601a8c0@HAL9002> Message-ID: Rocky, JMO that you're opening a can of worms here. I would suggest you send it with Wise,SageKey,ODE,A97 runtime installation script. John -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Rocky Smolin - Beach Access Software Sent: Thursday, March 18, 2004 7:39 PM To: AccessD at databaseadvisors.com Subject: [AccessD] Mixed Versions Dear List: I have a client running one of my old A97 apps FE and BE. He wants me to supply an FE that will run on a machine with AXP or A2003 I have A2K. If I convert my A97 FE to A2K and make an mde out of it, will the mde run on a box with AXP and/or A2003 and be able to read/write the A97 BE? MTIA, Rocky Smolin Beach Access Software http://www.e-z-mrp.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From BarbaraRyan at cox.net Fri Mar 19 11:02:51 2004 From: BarbaraRyan at cox.net (Barbara Ryan) Date: Fri, 19 Mar 2004 12:02:51 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Value of a recordset field Message-ID: <005a01c40dd4$03a52940$0a00a8c0@cx470148a> In an Access 97 app, I have a DAO recordset ("rs") which contains all of the fields in my Employee table ("tblEmp"). I need to retrieve the VALUE of the fieldname (not the field's name) contained in variable strFieldName. strFieldname can be one of several values ("rs!EmpNo", "rs!BadgeNo", "rs!SSN", etc.) . How can I do this? I've tried "rs(strFieldname).value", and variations of this, but can't get it to work Thanks, Barb From BarbaraRyan at cox.net Fri Mar 19 11:06:23 2004 From: BarbaraRyan at cox.net (Barbara Ryan) Date: Fri, 19 Mar 2004 12:06:23 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Value of a recordset field References: <005a01c40dd4$03a52940$0a00a8c0@cx470148a> Message-ID: <006101c40dd4$82467560$0a00a8c0@cx470148a> Sorry... "rs(strFieldname).value" DID work..... I just had a different problem!......Barb ----- Original Message ----- From: "Barbara Ryan" To: "Access List" Sent: Friday, March 19, 2004 12:02 PM Subject: [AccessD] Value of a recordset field In an Access 97 app, I have a DAO recordset ("rs") which contains all of the fields in my Employee table ("tblEmp"). I need to retrieve the VALUE of the fieldname (not the field's name) contained in variable strFieldName. strFieldname can be one of several values ("rs!EmpNo", "rs!BadgeNo", "rs!SSN", etc.) . How can I do this? I've tried "rs(strFieldname).value", and variations of this, but can't get it to work Thanks, Barb -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From clh at christopherhawkins.com Fri Mar 19 11:02:58 2004 From: clh at christopherhawkins.com (Christopher Hawkins) Date: Fri, 19 Mar 2004 10:02:58 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] Using Access for Reports w/an ASP app? Message-ID: <228270-22004351917258596@christopherhawkins.com> Greetings! Here's my deal - I have a spectacularly cheap client who brought me on to fix an Access application that was botched by another programmer (90% of my business falls into this category. :P), but they've decided that Access is at least partly to blame for the failure of the project (again, I say :P). So they want me to re-write the front-end in ASP. No problem there - most of the problems are in the UI; the schema is surprisingly good, considering the UI (it's truly poor). The roadblock I'm encountering is this: how do I make sure they can still access their reports? They have some pretty complex reports in that Access app, and they won't pay for Crystal. I was thinking that I'd leave a copy of their Access mdb on the web server and then write a dll that would open a report, write it ti pdf, and then return it to the browser. The only problem is...I have no idea how to do that. I also don't know if it's a smart thing to do. I also don't knwo if they'll want to pay for the dev time. Barring the above idea, is anyone aware of a cheap or free web reporting utility/tool/component that I can use to either leverage their existing reports, or re-create them for web use without having to go with something expensive like Crystal? -Christopher- From Paul.Millard at freight.fedex.com Fri Mar 19 11:11:52 2004 From: Paul.Millard at freight.fedex.com (Millard, Paul --- Sr. Developer Analyst ---WGO) Date: Fri, 19 Mar 2004 09:11:52 -0800 Subject: [AccessD] Connect to DB2 Message-ID: <67B2D43A2067B248A36B007650A2312C35F88A@PSJOE2K1.fxfwest.freight.fedex.com> Yeah, I found this site yesterday and plugged in the oledb db2 connection string and Access gave me an error about cannot find a provider. How does one get a provider for db2? -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Jim Lawrence (AccessD) Sent: Thursday, March 18, 2004 6:07 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] Connect to DB2 Hi Paul: Check this site out. It gives a number of DB2 connection examples depending on what and how you require the connection. http://www.able-consulting.com/ADO_Conn.htm HTH Jim -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Millard, Paul --- Sr. Developer Analyst ---WGO Sent: Thursday, March 18, 2004 2:02 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: [AccessD] Connect to DB2 Folks, Can anyone help me connect to a db2 database. I've seen multiple ways to connect using OLEDB Connection strings but I'm not sure what the database name and format should be. Below is a QMF SQL query tool .ini file used to connect to the database. If anyone can provide the string along with exact values based upon info below that would be great. Thanks, Paul [Server Parameters] Server1=HOST Server2=HOSTDSNB [HOST] RDBName=AFDSNP CollectionName=QMFWIN HostName=AFW1.HRO.AF.COM Port=446 SymDestName=*TCP/IP* DefaultSchedule1=Y00000078000003840009601710000012C0000000000000000000200000 00007FDFFFE00002710XX DefaultSchedule2=@ 0000000000000000 DefaultSchedule3=2 DefaultSchedule4= QueryBlockSize=32500 DecimalDelimiter=Period StringDelimiter=Apostrophe IsolationLevel=CursorStability BindReplace=1 BindKeep=1 BindOwner= xSingleCCSID=37 xMixedCCSID=0 xDoubleCCSID=0 xQMFCCSID=37 [HOSTDSNB] RDBName=AFDSNT CollectionName=QMFWIN HostName=AFW2.HRO.AF.COM Port=5030 SymDestName=*TCP/IP* DefaultSchedule1=Y00000078000003840009601710000012C0000000000000000000200000 00007FDFFFE00002710XX DefaultSchedule2=@ 0000000000000000 DefaultSchedule3=2 DefaultSchedule4= QueryBlockSize=32500 DecimalDelimiter=Period StringDelimiter=Apostrophe IsolationLevel=CursorStability BindReplace=1 BindKeep=1 BindOwner= xSingleCCSID=37 xMixedCCSID=0 xDoubleCCSID=0 xQMFCCSID=37 ********************************************************** This message contains information that is confidential and proprietary to FedEx Freight or its affiliates. It is intended only for the recipient named and for the express purpose(s) described therein. Any other use is prohibited. **************************************************************** -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From liz at symphonyinfo.com Fri Mar 19 11:24:26 2004 From: liz at symphonyinfo.com (Liz Doering) Date: Fri, 19 Mar 2004 11:24:26 -0600 Subject: [AccessD] Re: Mixed Versions In-Reply-To: <002501c40dc6$c8014a70$6601a8c0@HAL9002> Message-ID: I have had good luck with this for .mdbs. -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Rocky Smolin - Beach Access Software Sent: Friday, March 19, 2004 9:28 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Re: Mixed Versions Robert: Thanks. Do you know about A2003? Can an mde created under A2000 run under A2003 and see an A97 back end? MTIA, Rocky Smolin Beach Access Software http://www.e-z-mrp.com ----- Original Message ----- From: "Robert L. Stewart" To: Sent: Friday, March 19, 2004 7:15 AM Subject: [AccessD] Re: Mixed Versions > Rocky, > > He should be able to run it under 2002 with out any conversion. > He just cannot change any of the programming objects. > > Robert > > At 08:05 PM 3/18/2004 -0600, you wrote: > >Date: Thu, 18 Mar 2004 17:39:12 -0800 > >From: "Rocky Smolin - Beach Access Software" > >Subject: [AccessD] Mixed Versions > >To: > >Message-ID: <01fb01c40d52$fb8ba990$6601a8c0 at HAL9002> > >Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" > > > >Dear List: > > > >I have a client running one of my old A97 apps FE and BE. He wants me to > >supply an FE that will run on a machine with AXP or A2003 > > > >I have A2K. If I convert my A97 FE to A2K and make an mde out of it, will > >the mde run on a box with AXP and/or A2003 and be able to read/write the > >A97 BE? > > > >MTIA, > > > >Rocky Smolin > >Beach Access Software > > > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From Mark.Mitsules at ngc.com Fri Mar 19 12:09:18 2004 From: Mark.Mitsules at ngc.com (Mitsules, Mark S. (Newport News)) Date: Fri, 19 Mar 2004 13:09:18 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Using Access for Reports w/an ASP app? Message-ID: Cheap...sure...Snapshot Viewer. http://www.microsoft.com/accessdev/articles/snapshot.htm?gssnb=1 See http://www.microsoft.com/accessdev/articles/snapshot.htm?gssnb=1#WWW Mark -----Original Message----- From: Christopher Hawkins [mailto:clh at christopherhawkins.com] Sent: Friday, March 19, 2004 12:03 PM To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: [AccessD] Using Access for Reports w/an ASP app? Greetings! Here's my deal - I have a spectacularly cheap client who brought me on to fix an Access application that was botched by another programmer (90% of my business falls into this category. :P), but they've decided that Access is at least partly to blame for the failure of the project (again, I say :P). So they want me to re-write the front-end in ASP. No problem there - most of the problems are in the UI; the schema is surprisingly good, considering the UI (it's truly poor). The roadblock I'm encountering is this: how do I make sure they can still access their reports? They have some pretty complex reports in that Access app, and they won't pay for Crystal. I was thinking that I'd leave a copy of their Access mdb on the web server and then write a dll that would open a report, write it ti pdf, and then return it to the browser. The only problem is...I have no idea how to do that. I also don't know if it's a smart thing to do. I also don't knwo if they'll want to pay for the dev time. Barring the above idea, is anyone aware of a cheap or free web reporting utility/tool/component that I can use to either leverage their existing reports, or re-create them for web use without having to go with something expensive like Crystal? -Christopher- -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From clh at christopherhawkins.com Fri Mar 19 12:27:42 2004 From: clh at christopherhawkins.com (Christopher Hawkins) Date: Fri, 19 Mar 2004 11:27:42 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] Using Access for Reports w/an ASP app? Message-ID: <122290-220043519182742732@christopherhawkins.com> Mark, If I'm reading this right, it doesn't support reportign on demand - I'd have to save a copy of each report in .snp format in order for the users to view them in the SnapShot viewer. Am I missing something? -C- ---- Original Message ---- From: Mark.Mitsules at ngc.com To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com, Subject: RE: [AccessD] Using Access for Reports w/an ASP app? Date: Fri, 19 Mar 2004 13:09:18 -0500 >Cheap...sure...Snapshot Viewer. > >http://www.microsoft.com/accessdev/articles/snapshot.htm?gssnb=1 > >See >http://www.microsoft.com/accessdev/articles/snapshot.htm?gssnb=1#WWW > > > >Mark > > > >-----Original Message----- >From: Christopher Hawkins [mailto:clh at christopherhawkins.com] >Sent: Friday, March 19, 2004 12:03 PM >To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com >Subject: [AccessD] Using Access for Reports w/an ASP app? > > >Greetings! > >Here's my deal - I have a spectacularly cheap client who brought me >on to fix an Access application that was botched by another >programmer (90% of my business falls into this category. :P), but >they've decided that Access is at least partly to blame for the >failure of the project (again, I say :P). > >So they want me to re-write the front-end in ASP. No problem there - >most of the problems are in the UI; the schema is surprisingly good, >considering the UI (it's truly poor). > >The roadblock I'm encountering is this: how do I make sure they can >still access their reports? They have some pretty complex reports in >that Access app, and they won't pay for Crystal. > >I was thinking that I'd leave a copy of their Access mdb on the web >server and then write a dll that would open a report, write it ti >pdf, and then return it to the browser. The only problem is...I have >no idea how to do that. I also don't know if it's a smart thing to >do. I also don't knwo if they'll want to pay for the dev time. > >Barring the above idea, is anyone aware of a cheap or free web >reporting utility/tool/component that I can use to either leverage >their existing reports, or re-create them for web use without having >to go with something expensive like Crystal? > > >-Christopher- > > >-- >_______________________________________________ >AccessD mailing list >AccessD at databaseadvisors.com >http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd >Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com >-- >_______________________________________________ >AccessD mailing list >AccessD at databaseadvisors.com >http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd >Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > From gustav at cactus.dk Fri Mar 19 12:54:42 2004 From: gustav at cactus.dk (Gustav Brock) Date: Fri, 19 Mar 2004 19:54:42 +0100 Subject: [AccessD] Using Access for Reports w/an ASP app? In-Reply-To: <122290-220043519182742732@christopherhawkins.com> References: <122290-220043519182742732@christopherhawkins.com> Message-ID: <14640258749.20040319195442@cactus.dk> Hi Christopher What you are requesting is some sort of "Access report server engine". I see three options when a report is requested: 1. Make a direct call to Access to open and print the report. 2. Raise an event which is caught by a running Access instance. 3. Create a message queue. Put the name etc. of the report into the queue, have Access to poll the queue and print when an entry is found. For 1. and 2. you will have the problem that Access is single threaded which means that if Access is printing a report it cannot initiate printing another. For 1. you could possibly - as long system resources permit - open a new instance of Access. This could be hard to control. For 2. I don't know if it is possible to have several instances of Access running to watch for the same event. For 3. you should be able to have several instances running polling at random intervals to obtain a needed total output capacity (reports per hour). I too would be very interested if some of you have some experiences with a setup for a purpose like this as Access is an excellent report engine and - run as runtimes - at zero cost compared to the quite expensive Crystal Reports. /gustav > If I'm reading this right, it doesn't support reportign on demand - > I'd have to save a copy of each report in .snp format in order for > the users to view them in the SnapShot viewer. Am I missing > something? > -C- > ---- Original Message ---- > From: Mark.Mitsules at ngc.com > To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com, > Subject: RE: [AccessD] Using Access for Reports w/an ASP app? > Date: Fri, 19 Mar 2004 13:09:18 -0500 >>Cheap...sure...Snapshot Viewer. >> >>http://www.microsoft.com/accessdev/articles/snapshot.htm?gssnb=1 >> >>See >>http://www.microsoft.com/accessdev/articles/snapshot.htm?gssnb=1#WWW >> >>Mark >>-----Original Message----- >>From: Christopher Hawkins [mailto:clh at christopherhawkins.com] >>Sent: Friday, March 19, 2004 12:03 PM >>To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com >>Subject: [AccessD] Using Access for Reports w/an ASP app? >> >> >>Greetings! >> >>Here's my deal - I have a spectacularly cheap client who brought me >>on to fix an Access application that was botched by another >>programmer (90% of my business falls into this category. :P), but >>they've decided that Access is at least partly to blame for the >>failure of the project (again, I say :P). >> >>So they want me to re-write the front-end in ASP. No problem there - >>most of the problems are in the UI; the schema is surprisingly good, >>considering the UI (it's truly poor). >> >>The roadblock I'm encountering is this: how do I make sure they can >>still access their reports? They have some pretty complex reports in >>that Access app, and they won't pay for Crystal. >> >>I was thinking that I'd leave a copy of their Access mdb on the web >>server and then write a dll that would open a report, write it ti >>pdf, and then return it to the browser. The only problem is...I have >>no idea how to do that. I also don't know if it's a smart thing to >>do. I also don't knwo if they'll want to pay for the dev time. >> >>Barring the above idea, is anyone aware of a cheap or free web >>reporting utility/tool/component that I can use to either leverage >>their existing reports, or re-create them for web use without having >>to go with something expensive like Crystal? From Mark.Mitsules at ngc.com Fri Mar 19 12:54:14 2004 From: Mark.Mitsules at ngc.com (Mitsules, Mark S. (Newport News)) Date: Fri, 19 Mar 2004 13:54:14 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Using Access for Reports w/an ASP app? Message-ID: The short answer is, a "snapshot" is just that...a snapshot. So, yes, you have to re-create those snapshot files each and every time. But, the second link described one method of generating these reports programmatically on a regular basis. That method could be modified to allow for "on demand" reports. All-in-all not a very robust solution, but it appears that it could satisfy both of your requirements...web-based and cheap. Mark -----Original Message----- From: Christopher Hawkins [mailto:clh at christopherhawkins.com] Sent: Friday, March 19, 2004 1:28 PM To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: RE: [AccessD] Using Access for Reports w/an ASP app? Mark, If I'm reading this right, it doesn't support reportign on demand - I'd have to save a copy of each report in .snp format in order for the users to view them in the SnapShot viewer. Am I missing something? -C- ---- Original Message ---- From: Mark.Mitsules at ngc.com To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com, Subject: RE: [AccessD] Using Access for Reports w/an ASP app? Date: Fri, 19 Mar 2004 13:09:18 -0500 >Cheap...sure...Snapshot Viewer. > >http://www.microsoft.com/accessdev/articles/snapshot.htm?gssnb=1 > >See >http://www.microsoft.com/accessdev/articles/snapshot.htm?gssnb=1#WWW > > > >Mark > > > >-----Original Message----- >From: Christopher Hawkins [mailto:clh at christopherhawkins.com] >Sent: Friday, March 19, 2004 12:03 PM >To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com >Subject: [AccessD] Using Access for Reports w/an ASP app? > > >Greetings! > >Here's my deal - I have a spectacularly cheap client who brought me >on to fix an Access application that was botched by another >programmer (90% of my business falls into this category. :P), but >they've decided that Access is at least partly to blame for the >failure of the project (again, I say :P). > >So they want me to re-write the front-end in ASP. No problem there - >most of the problems are in the UI; the schema is surprisingly good, >considering the UI (it's truly poor). > >The roadblock I'm encountering is this: how do I make sure they can >still access their reports? They have some pretty complex reports in >that Access app, and they won't pay for Crystal. > >I was thinking that I'd leave a copy of their Access mdb on the web >server and then write a dll that would open a report, write it ti >pdf, and then return it to the browser. The only problem is...I have >no idea how to do that. I also don't know if it's a smart thing to >do. I also don't knwo if they'll want to pay for the dev time. > >Barring the above idea, is anyone aware of a cheap or free web >reporting utility/tool/component that I can use to either leverage >their existing reports, or re-create them for web use without having >to go with something expensive like Crystal? > > >-Christopher- > > >-- >_______________________________________________ >AccessD mailing list >AccessD at databaseadvisors.com >http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd >Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com >-- >_______________________________________________ >AccessD mailing list >AccessD at databaseadvisors.com >http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd >Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From martyconnelly at shaw.ca Fri Mar 19 13:50:43 2004 From: martyconnelly at shaw.ca (MartyConnelly) Date: Fri, 19 Mar 2004 11:50:43 -0800 Subject: [AccessD] Connect to DB2 References: <67B2D43A2067B248A36B007650A2312C35F88A@PSJOE2K1.fxfwest.freight.fedex.com> Message-ID: <405B4F13.302@shaw.ca> That provider doesn't come with MDAC. It only comes with MS HIS Server The Host Integration Server 2000 (was MS SNA server). You are now talking in $2,500 range I think plus cost of win2003 or 2000 server You have to differentiate between whether you are connecting via SNA or TCP/IP There is a HIS Beta available and a 120 day trial http://www.microsoft.com/hiserver/beta/default.asp see this newsgroup microsoft.public.snaserver.programming Host Integration Server is an integration solution for connectivity to a mainframe OS/390 (appears as a cluster controller, PU2 device), AS/400 OS/400 (appears as a PU2.1 LEN node) Symtrax iSeries OLE DB Driver free trial for AS400 http://www.symtrax.com/en/products/oledb/ Or you might get IBM's oledb version, it maybe inside Free Personal DB2 edition, haven't looked in a few years. There is another version for dotNet. DB2 Personal Developer's Edition (DB2 Personal Developers Edition for Windows (x86, 32-bit)) 500 Meg download http://www14.software.ibm.com/webapp/download/preconfig.jsp?id=2003-09-12+10%3A53%3A49.025154R&S_TACT=TrialsAndBetas&S_CMP=&s= Millard, Paul --- Sr. Developer Analyst ---WGO wrote: >Yeah, I found this site yesterday and plugged in the oledb db2 connection string and Access gave me an error about cannot find a provider. > >How does one get a provider for db2? > >-----Original Message----- >From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com >[mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Jim Lawrence >(AccessD) >Sent: Thursday, March 18, 2004 6:07 PM >To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving >Subject: RE: [AccessD] Connect to DB2 > > >Hi Paul: > >Check this site out. It gives a number of DB2 connection examples depending >on what and how you require the connection. > >http://www.able-consulting.com/ADO_Conn.htm > >HTH >Jim > >-----Original Message----- >From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com >[mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Millard, Paul >--- Sr. Developer Analyst ---WGO >Sent: Thursday, March 18, 2004 2:02 PM >To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving >Subject: [AccessD] Connect to DB2 > > > >Folks, > >Can anyone help me connect to a db2 database. I've seen multiple ways to >connect using OLEDB Connection strings but I'm not sure what the database >name and format should be. Below is a QMF SQL query tool .ini file used to >connect to the database. > >If anyone can provide the string along with exact values based upon info >below that would be great. > >Thanks, >Paul > >[Server Parameters] >Server1=HOST >Server2=HOSTDSNB >[HOST] >RDBName=AFDSNP >CollectionName=QMFWIN >HostName=AFW1.HRO.AF.COM >Port=446 >SymDestName=*TCP/IP* >DefaultSchedule1=Y00000078000003840009601710000012C0000000000000000000200000 >00007FDFFFE00002710XX >DefaultSchedule2=@ >0000000000000000 >DefaultSchedule3=2 >DefaultSchedule4= >QueryBlockSize=32500 >DecimalDelimiter=Period >StringDelimiter=Apostrophe >IsolationLevel=CursorStability >BindReplace=1 >BindKeep=1 >BindOwner= >xSingleCCSID=37 >xMixedCCSID=0 >xDoubleCCSID=0 >xQMFCCSID=37 >[HOSTDSNB] >RDBName=AFDSNT >CollectionName=QMFWIN >HostName=AFW2.HRO.AF.COM >Port=5030 >SymDestName=*TCP/IP* >DefaultSchedule1=Y00000078000003840009601710000012C0000000000000000000200000 >00007FDFFFE00002710XX >DefaultSchedule2=@ >0000000000000000 >DefaultSchedule3=2 >DefaultSchedule4= >QueryBlockSize=32500 >DecimalDelimiter=Period >StringDelimiter=Apostrophe >IsolationLevel=CursorStability >BindReplace=1 >BindKeep=1 >BindOwner= >xSingleCCSID=37 >xMixedCCSID=0 >xDoubleCCSID=0 >xQMFCCSID=37 > > >********************************************************** >This message contains information that is confidential >and proprietary to FedEx Freight or its affiliates. >It is intended only for the recipient named and for >the express purpose(s) described therein. >Any other use is prohibited. >**************************************************************** > >-- >_______________________________________________ >AccessD mailing list >AccessD at databaseadvisors.com >http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd >Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > -- Marty Connelly Victoria, B.C. Canada From dwaters at usinternet.com Fri Mar 19 14:04:02 2004 From: dwaters at usinternet.com (Dan Waters) Date: Fri, 19 Mar 2004 14:04:02 -0600 Subject: [AccessD] Synchronize with Palm or PocketPC Message-ID: <000501c40ded$53313300$de1811d8@DanWaters> Hello everyone, I have a client where a possibly good solution would be to enter information into a PDA and then synchronize it with an Access app once per day. Can anyone point me in a direction to learn more about this? Anyone have any good/lousy experiences? Thanks! Dan Waters From garykjos at hotmail.com Fri Mar 19 15:02:59 2004 From: garykjos at hotmail.com (Gary Kjos) Date: Fri, 19 Mar 2004 15:02:59 -0600 Subject: [AccessD] Synchronize with Palm or PocketPC Message-ID: I haven't actually used this, but I did buy it and it is supposed to allow syncing between handheld database and Access database It's called "Smartlist to go" and is made by Dataviz, the same guys who do Documents to Go which I have used and is a fabulous tool for synciing Excel and Word Docs to a PalmOS handheld. http://www.dataviz.com/products/smartlisttogo/index.html Gary Kjos garykjos at hotmail.com >From: "Dan Waters" >Reply-To: Access Developers discussion and problem >solving >To: "'Access Developers discussion and problem >solving'" >Subject: [AccessD] Synchronize with Palm or PocketPC >Date: Fri, 19 Mar 2004 14:04:02 -0600 > >Hello everyone, > > > >I have a client where a possibly good solution would be to enter >information >into a PDA and then synchronize it with an Access app once per day. > > > >Can anyone point me in a direction to learn more about this? Anyone have >any good/lousy experiences? > > > >Thanks! > >Dan Waters > >-- >_______________________________________________ >AccessD mailing list >AccessD at databaseadvisors.com >http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd >Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com _________________________________________________________________ MSN Toolbar provides one-click access to Hotmail from any Web page ? FREE download! http://clk.atdmt.com/AVE/go/onm00200413ave/direct/01/ From Patricia.O'Connor at DFA.STATE.NY.US Fri Mar 19 15:45:36 2004 From: Patricia.O'Connor at DFA.STATE.NY.US (O'Connor, Patricia ) Date: Fri, 19 Mar 2004 16:45:36 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Execute stored query using ADO Message-ID: Hi all I am attempting to set up a job stream in VBA. The first example works fine strSql = "INSERT INTO TBL_EXPFSDT (EXPFS_BASE_DT)" strSql = strSql & " VALUES (TO_DATE('" & dtNew & "', 'MM/DD/YYYY'))" cmd.CommandText = strSql cmd.ActiveConnection = cnn cmd.CommandType = adCmdText cmd.Execute lngAffected, , adExecuteNoRecords Then next step is to execute a stored passthru query named q01aCreateNycFsTable the following does not work Set cmd = New ADODB.Command cmd.ActiveConnection = cnn cmd.CommandText = "q01aCreateNycFsTable" cmd.CommandType = adCmdStoredProc cmd.Execute lngAffected, , adExecuteNoRecords This is driving me nuts, I have tried several other combinations. I have other queries I wish to do the same thing but do not want to have to string out like in first example - TOO long. How do I run an access query using ADO or do I have to use DAO. Thanks From pjones at btl.net Fri Mar 19 15:41:04 2004 From: pjones at btl.net (Paul M. Jones) Date: Fri, 19 Mar 2004 15:41:04 -0600 Subject: [AccessD] Synchronize with Palm or PocketPC In-Reply-To: <000501c40ded$53313300$de1811d8@DanWaters> References: <000501c40ded$53313300$de1811d8@DanWaters> Message-ID: <6.0.0.22.2.20040319153555.02e115b0@btlmail.btl.net> I've used HanDBase to develop a very small app on the palm that synchronizes with MS Access on a desktop. Unfortunately I did not spend enough time to become aware of all the challenges that one might face but I do know that it works. The software itself sells for about $29.00. Paul M. Jones At 02:04 PM 03/19/2004, you wrote: >Hello everyone, > > > >I have a client where a possibly good solution would be to enter information >into a PDA and then synchronize it with an Access app once per day. > > > >Can anyone point me in a direction to learn more about this? Anyone have >any good/lousy experiences? > > > >Thanks! > >Dan Waters > >-- >_______________________________________________ >AccessD mailing list >AccessD at databaseadvisors.com >http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd >Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From cfoust at infostatsystems.com Fri Mar 19 16:05:21 2004 From: cfoust at infostatsystems.com (Charlotte Foust) Date: Fri, 19 Mar 2004 14:05:21 -0800 Subject: [AccessD] Execute stored query using ADO Message-ID: I've used that syntax to execute a saved query in Access before. Can you successfully execute the query using DAO? Charlotte Foust -----Original Message----- From: O'Connor, Patricia [mailto:Patricia.O'Connor at DFA.STATE.NY.US] Sent: Friday, March 19, 2004 1:46 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: [AccessD] Execute stored query using ADO Hi all I am attempting to set up a job stream in VBA. The first example works fine strSql = "INSERT INTO TBL_EXPFSDT (EXPFS_BASE_DT)" strSql = strSql & " VALUES (TO_DATE('" & dtNew & "', 'MM/DD/YYYY'))" cmd.CommandText = strSql cmd.ActiveConnection = cnn cmd.CommandType = adCmdText cmd.Execute lngAffected, , adExecuteNoRecords Then next step is to execute a stored passthru query named q01aCreateNycFsTable the following does not work Set cmd = New ADODB.Command cmd.ActiveConnection = cnn cmd.CommandText = "q01aCreateNycFsTable" cmd.CommandType = adCmdStoredProc cmd.Execute lngAffected, , adExecuteNoRecords This is driving me nuts, I have tried several other combinations. I have other queries I wish to do the same thing but do not want to have to string out like in first example - TOO long. How do I run an access query using ADO or do I have to use DAO. Thanks -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From DWUTKA at marlow.com Fri Mar 19 16:44:06 2004 From: DWUTKA at marlow.com (DWUTKA at marlow.com) Date: Fri, 19 Mar 2004 16:44:06 -0600 Subject: [AccessD] Short Date Input Mask question Message-ID: <2F8793082E00D4119A1700B0D0216BF802227998@main2.marlow.com> LOL. Hey, it's free, don't complain... Drew -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of William Hindman Sent: Thursday, March 18, 2004 6:59 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Short Date Input Mask question ...snore ...do while ...snore ...do while ...snore ...do while ...loop de loop :)))))) William Hindman You know the world is upside down when Bill Clinton wins a Grammy and Janet Jackson is the subject of a government sex investigation. Argus Hamilton. ----- Original Message ----- From: To: Sent: Thursday, March 18, 2004 12:28 PM Subject: RE: [AccessD] Short Date Input Mask question > Wait until I get that thing finished....THEN you'll have a reason to try my > new one.... grin. Of course, you'll probably complain about how 'un-mini' > it is...LOL! > > Drew > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of William > Hindman > Sent: Wednesday, March 17, 2004 3:45 PM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: Re: [AccessD] Short Date Input Mask question > > > ...yes and no ...convenient but a suck for bad data entry ime ...one types > in 6/1/2004 ...one types in 1/6/2004 ...one types in 1 jun 04 and tabs on > down the line, etc ...lecture me all day on dumb users but I don't have the > option of firing them ...so I pop up a small calendar every time ...if the > user enters directly in the text box, the calendar moves to the date entered > to provide visual feedback ...if he/she selects from the calendar it fills > the text box ...either way they can mouse it or keyboard it ...so no matter > whether the user is military trained (euro dating) or public school trained > (US dating you hope) or wants to type in the alpha month, I get him there > somehow so that the right date gets entered ...nothings foolproof but date > entry errors have gone to zero ...which is worth the cost of the popup to me > and my clients. > > ...as a side I tried this approach using the native calendar control and > could never make its speed acceptable ...after a lot of experimentation I > standardized on an older version of Drew's all vba code calendar (with some > mods) which is quite fast for my needs ...one of these days I might get > around to using his newest version but I've not found a reason to as yet :) > > William Hindman > You know the world is upside down when Bill Clinton wins a Grammy and Janet > Jackson is the subject of a government sex investigation. Argus Hamilton. > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Brett Barabash" > To: "'Access Developers discussion and problem solving'" > > Sent: Wednesday, March 17, 2004 3:43 PM > Subject: RE: [AccessD] Short Date Input Mask question > > > > >I do not believe that providing a pop up calendar is incorrect especially > > as > > >the users can tab into a date field and use a keyboard in any event. > > > > You missed my point. This is EXACTLY my sentiment. > > > > I said: > > >One of my biggest UI pet peeves is fields that disallow keyboard entry. > > > > My response was to someone who doesn't allow the user to tab into a date > > field and forces them to open up a calendar instead. In my opinion, this > is > > a lazy way of avoiding date validation code. > > > > Have you ever used a program or website that forces you to use a calendar > to > > enter your birthdate? (I have!) Personally, I find it a PITA to click a > > button to open a calendar, navigate to 1975, select May from a dropdown > and > > then click on the 6. I'd like to type 05/06/1975, but some lazy > programmer > > decided that it's way more elegant to launch a special screen to guide me > > through this complex process. > > > > OTOH, Outlook gives you several different options for date selection. To > > schedule a meeting for tomorrow, I can type... > > 03/18/2004 > > March 18, 2004 > > 2004 Mar 18 > > ...or click on the box next to the field if I want to see a calendar. > > > > The developers put a lot of thought into this and because of its inherent > > flexibility it is easy to use by all types of users. I wish other pieces > of > > software were as ambitious. > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: J?rgen Welz [mailto:jwelz at hotmail.com] > > Sent: Wednesday, March 17, 2004 1:45 PM > > To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com > > Subject: RE: [AccessD] Short Date Input Mask question > > > > At one point a few years ago at this list I made a similar comment saying > I > > provided a doubleclick pop up calendar and received a similar response. > As > > a result, I once logged usage of: > > > > Double click pop up calendar > > vs > > Key down with form key preview on, Alt-d pops calendar if screen > active > > control had a standard input mask property. > > > > I also considered a keyboard autokeys macro call a runcode that did the > same > > > > thing but never did implement this version. > > > > Logging indicated that well over 98% of the data entry was by double click > > popup calendar. Granted these were very 'unsophisticated' users but the > > majority of their daily tasks involved interaction with the application. > > > > I do not believe that providing a pop up calendar is incorrect especially > as > > > > the users can tab into a date field and use a keyboard in any event. > IIRC, > > I had changed the display format and input mask dynamically in the past so > > that a user could key in 'mm/dd/yy' but the display format whenever the > > control didn't have focus was 'mmm/dd/yyyy'. I also added a label > > displaying the input format at each date entry textbox so there was never > a > > question as to the required input sequence. > > > > I also believe that one of the reasons that my users like my pop up > calendar > > > > is because it also displays appointments and blocked off dates for that > user > > > > and other office staff (selected in multiselect list). It can be popped > by > > keyboard or by doubleclick and can be navigated by mouse or cursor or page > > keys (for months) and you can tab into a year textbox. The months are > each > > on a tab wtih Alt-character navigation and cursoring down past the end of > > one month moves to the next month (and up to previous). Finally, the > Enter > > keys accepts the date, sets the source textbox and dismisses the calendar > > and the Escape key dismisses the calendar without setting or changing a > > date. > > > > I am a firm believer in always providing a keyboard navigation method, but > > that never precludes adding a mouse alternative that does exactly the same > > thing. A pop up calendar can be entirely keyboard controlled at a cost of > a > > > > few extra keystrokes for the rich graphical information that it can > present. > > > > And just because it's there doesn't mean a user ever has to use it. It > > just turns out that my experience is that they will even though I have a > > prejudice for preferring to use the keyboard wherever possible. I suspect > > this prejudice afflicts most programmers. > > > > If only browers were more keyboard friendly. > > > > > > Ciao > > J?rgen Welz > > Edmonton, Alberta > > jwelz at hotmail.com > > > > > > > > > > > > >From: Brett Barabash > > > > > >I bet the data entry people love you! > > > > > >It may "work for you", but I'll bet that there are some users out there > > >that > > >feel otherwise. One of my biggest UI pet peeves is fields that disallow > > >keyboard entry. One record or 1000 records, it's still annoying to move > > >your hand off of the home row of your keyboard and click around to select > a > > >date. > > > > > > > > >-----Original Message----- > > >From: Heenan, Lambert [mailto:Lambert.Heenan at aig.com] > > >Sent: Wednesday, March 17, 2004 8:22 AM > > >To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' > > >Subject: RE: [AccessD] Short Date Input Mask question > > > > > > > > >My solution to date entry is simple - I never let user's type in a date. > > >They always pick the date from a simple calendar form (though I don't > use > > >the MS Calendar control). Click on a date field and up pops the date > > >picker. > > >While this would not be suitable, perhaps, in applications where massive > > >numbers of dates need to be entered, I find it works just fine for me. > > > > > >Lambert > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > > From: Arthur Fuller [SMTP:artful at rogers.com] > > > > Sent: Tuesday, March 16, 2004 5:47 PM > > > > To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' > > > > Subject: [AccessD] Short Date Input Mask question > > > > > > > > The standard short date input mask (99/99/0000;0;_) has a shortcoming > > > > that I hate: you have to type 04/04/04 to get April 4th 2004. The year > > > > handling is nice but the month and day suck. The mask won't let you > type > > > > 4/4/04. Is there an alternative mask that will respond intelligently > to > > > > such input? Or should I instead just remove all the input masks from > all > > > > the date fields? > > > > > > > > TIA, > > > > Arthur > > > > _________________________________________________________________ > > > > -------------------------------------------------------------------------- > ------------------------------------------ > > The information in this email may contain confidential information that > > is legally privileged. The information is only for the use of the intended > > recipient(s) named above. If you are not the intended recipient(s), you > > are hereby notified that any disclosure, copying, distribution, or the > taking > > of any action in regard to the content of this fax is strictly prohibited. > If > > transmission is incorrect, unclear, or incomplete, please notify the > sender > > immediately. The authorized recipient(s) of this information is/are > prohibited > > from disclosing this information to any other party and is/are required to > > destroy the information after its stated need has been fulfilled. > > > > Any views expressed in this message are those of the individual > > sender, except where the sender specifies and with authority, > > states them to be the views of Tappe Construction Co. > > > > This footer also confirms that this email message has been scanned > > for the presence of computer viruses.Scanning of this message and > > addition of this footer is performed by SurfControl E-mail Filter software > > in conjunction with virus detection software. > > > > -- > > _______________________________________________ > > AccessD mailing list > > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From DWUTKA at marlow.com Fri Mar 19 17:07:44 2004 From: DWUTKA at marlow.com (DWUTKA at marlow.com) Date: Fri, 19 Mar 2004 17:07:44 -0600 Subject: [AccessD] Using Access for Reports w/an ASP app? Message-ID: <2F8793082E00D4119A1700B0D0216BF802227999@main2.marlow.com> I have a personal side project I call 'wolfweb'. It was built for displaying Access reports on the web. My company has several 'report' databases. One such database has about 900 reports. Most of these reports prompt the users with dialog boxes. The problem with taking a database like that to the web, is that you have to rebuild every report, in order to get around the dialog boxes. I did about 4 or 5 reports like that. Took two to eight hours a peice. I had to rebuild the query behind the report (along with some report modification), then build an ASP page to ask for the criteria. Doing that for 900 reports was not going to work. While it may have provided job security until I was 50, it would have probably killed me long before then. So I built wolfweb. WolfWeb is a multi-threaded VB program. Here's how it works. The first ASP page asks for what database you want to use. (In the working copies of wolfweb, the db is hardcoded...). Once it knows the database, the next asp page displays two combo boxes, one for the report (which lists all of the reports in the database), the next is the format that you want the report displayed in. When you select those, and continue, WolfWeb (which I have running on a separate machine from our Intranet (where the ASP pages are residing) goes and opens an instance of Access, and runs the report. At the same time, it starts another thread, which watches the Access window. When it 'sees' a dialog window open for the Access Window, it 'diagrams' it, and sends that back to the requesting asp page, which then builds an exact 'HTML' version of the dialog box. The user can then enter what they want into the HTML 'dialog' box, and when they submit that, their data entry is replicated on the WolfWeb server (by the watching thread), and the process continues until the report is created. Then the asp page redirects to the new 'temp' file which is the report saved in the format of their choice. Works like a charm. Only known bug is that if the dialog windows are interacted with the Enter key, instead of a mouse click, it gets goofy. I already have a little Java script to disable the enter key (in fact, wrote it working on the AccessD archives), just have never gotten around to implementing it. WolfWeb has been running here for over a year now, without any real hitches. The BIG catch, and the reason I never finished it to sell it as a completed product, is the fact that Access doesn't treat it's forms like normal windows. WolfWeb eats through dialog boxes (criteria prompts, login prompts, etc....(the two databases wolfweb is running for are both reporting engines for an Oracle database, and WolfWeb handles the ODBC login just like any other dialog window...), however, if a form is used for the reports criteria, it will just prompt the user as if the form isn't open (which it isn't). I figured out that instead of dealing with the Access forms like windows, I would have to use VB to 'diagram' the form, by looping through it's controls. Figured out how to do it, just never got around to developing that, because it had already sucked up a lot of my time. So, if you don't have forms to ask for report criteria, WolfWeb would probably do the trick for you. I'd be willing to sell ya the source for it for $50 and a couple of beers the next time your in Dallas! Drew -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Christopher Hawkins Sent: Friday, March 19, 2004 11:03 AM To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: [AccessD] Using Access for Reports w/an ASP app? Greetings! Here's my deal - I have a spectacularly cheap client who brought me on to fix an Access application that was botched by another programmer (90% of my business falls into this category. :P), but they've decided that Access is at least partly to blame for the failure of the project (again, I say :P). So they want me to re-write the front-end in ASP. No problem there - most of the problems are in the UI; the schema is surprisingly good, considering the UI (it's truly poor). The roadblock I'm encountering is this: how do I make sure they can still access their reports? They have some pretty complex reports in that Access app, and they won't pay for Crystal. I was thinking that I'd leave a copy of their Access mdb on the web server and then write a dll that would open a report, write it ti pdf, and then return it to the browser. The only problem is...I have no idea how to do that. I also don't know if it's a smart thing to do. I also don't knwo if they'll want to pay for the dev time. Barring the above idea, is anyone aware of a cheap or free web reporting utility/tool/component that I can use to either leverage their existing reports, or re-create them for web use without having to go with something expensive like Crystal? -Christopher- -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From ssharkins at bellsouth.net Fri Mar 19 17:20:40 2004 From: ssharkins at bellsouth.net (Susan Harkins) Date: Fri, 19 Mar 2004 18:20:40 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Using Access for Reports w/an ASP app? In-Reply-To: <2F8793082E00D4119A1700B0D0216BF802227999@main2.marlow.com> Message-ID: <20040319232037.EQKB2496.imf22aec.mail.bellsouth.net@SUSANONE> Drew -- this really isn't in response to your post, but just a general question that relates more back to the original problem -- kind of.. Does the Snapshot Viewer control solution have some advantage over XML? Since Access automatically generates web-ready files, I'm curious why someone might choose the control solution instead. It's easy to pull together, but so is an XM-based solution. Is there some advantage. Susan H. I have a personal side project I call 'wolfweb'. It was built for displaying Access reports on the web. My company has several 'report' databases. One such database has about 900 reports. Most of these reports prompt the users with dialog boxes. The problem with taking a database like that to the web, is that you have to rebuild every report, in order to get around the dialog boxes. I did about 4 or 5 reports like that. Took two to eight hours a peice. I had to rebuild the query behind the report (along with some report modification), then build an ASP page to ask for the criteria. Doing that for 900 reports was not going to work. While it may have provided job security until I was 50, it would have probably killed me long before then. So I built wolfweb. WolfWeb is a multi-threaded VB program. Here's how it works. The first ASP page asks for what database you want to use. (In the working copies of wolfweb, the db is hardcoded...). Once it knows the database, the next asp page displays two combo boxes, one for the report (which lists all of the reports in the database), the next is the format that you want the report displayed in. When you select those, and continue, WolfWeb (which I have running on a separate machine from our Intranet (where the ASP pages are residing) goes and opens an instance of Access, and runs the report. At the same time, it starts another thread, which watches the Access window. When it 'sees' a dialog window open for the Access Window, it 'diagrams' it, and sends that back to the requesting asp page, which then builds an exact 'HTML' version of the dialog box. The user can then enter what they want into the HTML 'dialog' box, and when they submit that, their data entry is replicated on the WolfWeb server (by the watching thread), and the process continues until the report is created. Then the asp page redirects to the new 'temp' file which is the report saved in the format of their choice. Works like a charm. Only known bug is that if the dialog windows are interacted with the Enter key, instead of a mouse click, it gets goofy. I already have a little Java script to disable the enter key (in fact, wrote it working on the AccessD archives), just have never gotten around to implementing it. WolfWeb has been running here for over a year now, without any real hitches. The BIG catch, and the reason I never finished it to sell it as a completed product, is the fact that Access doesn't treat it's forms like normal windows. WolfWeb eats through dialog boxes (criteria prompts, login prompts, etc....(the two databases wolfweb is running for are both reporting engines for an Oracle database, and WolfWeb handles the ODBC login just like any other dialog window...), however, if a form is used for the reports criteria, it will just prompt the user as if the form isn't open (which it isn't). I figured out that instead of dealing with the Access forms like windows, I would have to use VB to 'diagram' the form, by looping through it's controls. Figured out how to do it, just never got around to developing that, because it had already sucked up a lot of my time. So, if you don't have forms to ask for report criteria, WolfWeb would probably do the trick for you. I'd be willing to sell ya the source for it for $50 and a couple of beers the next time your in Dallas! Drew -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Christopher Hawkins Sent: Friday, March 19, 2004 11:03 AM To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: [AccessD] Using Access for Reports w/an ASP app? Greetings! Here's my deal - I have a spectacularly cheap client who brought me on to fix an Access application that was botched by another programmer (90% of my business falls into this category. :P), but they've decided that Access is at least partly to blame for the failure of the project (again, I say :P). So they want me to re-write the front-end in ASP. No problem there - most of the problems are in the UI; the schema is surprisingly good, considering the UI (it's truly poor). The roadblock I'm encountering is this: how do I make sure they can still access their reports? They have some pretty complex reports in that Access app, and they won't pay for Crystal. I was thinking that I'd leave a copy of their Access mdb on the web server and then write a dll that would open a report, write it ti pdf, and then return it to the browser. The only problem is...I have no idea how to do that. I also don't know if it's a smart thing to do. I also don't knwo if they'll want to pay for the dev time. Barring the above idea, is anyone aware of a cheap or free web reporting utility/tool/component that I can use to either leverage their existing reports, or re-create them for web use without having to go with something expensive like Crystal? -Christopher- -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From jmhla at earthlink.net Fri Mar 19 17:50:52 2004 From: jmhla at earthlink.net (jmhla at earthlink.net) Date: Fri, 19 Mar 2004 18:50:52 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Synchronize with Palm or PocketPC New ? Message-ID: <191690-220043519235052184@M2W092.mail2web.com> What do you need to run Access on a Palm PDA? I got the access side? Original Message: ----------------- From: Dan Waters dwaters at usinternet.com Date: Fri, 19 Mar 2004 14:04:02 -0600 To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: [AccessD] Synchronize with Palm or PocketPC Hello everyone, I have a client where a possibly good solution would be to enter information into a PDA and then synchronize it with an Access app once per day. Can anyone point me in a direction to learn more about this? Anyone have any good/lousy experiences? Thanks! Dan Waters -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -------------------------------------------------------------------- mail2web - Check your email from the web at http://mail2web.com/ . From jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com Fri Mar 19 19:08:08 2004 From: jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com (John W. Colby) Date: Fri, 19 Mar 2004 20:08:08 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Framework Discussion - Service Classes Message-ID: Framework Discussion ? Service Classes It is time to discuss the framework foundation and some programming concepts that we need to be using to make our projects as stable as possible. We will be using many service classes, classes which provide a service to the framework and even to the Application itself ? services such as zip / unzip, encrypt / un-encrypt, Sysvars and the like. There are a couple of ways that we can implement this functionality. We will discuss these variations, why we would use one or the other and then I will select the one I like to use (a framework class) and begin building that. Service classes on demand Service classes are ?standalone? classes which just do something for the developer, provide some packaged functionality. The application might need to zip files to attach to email messages, so the developer could have a class that he instantiates at the moment he wants to use the zip service, then clean up after himself when he is done. The developer could dimension the variable in a form header, set the instance in the form?s Open event and clean up in the form?s Close event. Option Compare Database Option Explicit 'Create a variable to hold the zip class Dim fclsZip As dclsZip Private Sub Form_Close() 'cleanup the pointer to the class Set fclsZip = Nothing End Sub Private Sub Form_Open(Cancel As Integer) 'setup a pointer to the class Set fclsZip = New dclsZip End Sub Private Sub cmdZipTheFile_Click() fclsZip.AddFileSpec CurrentProject.Path & "\" & "1. Classes - Collections classes and Garbage collection.doc" fclsZip.Zip End Sub Or he could dim a class variable inside of a function and set / cleanup all right inside that function. Private Sub ZipIt() Dim fclsZip As dclsZip 'setup a pointer to the class Set fclsZip = New dclsZip 'do the zip fclsZip.AddFileSpec CurrentProject.Path & "\" & "1. Classes - Collections classes and Garbage collection.doc" fclsZip.Zip 'cleanup the pointer to the class Set fclsZip = Nothing End Sub These are probably the most common ways of using classes, and the ways that pop to mind for the majority of developers. There is certainly nothing wrong with doing things this way, however the developer has to dimension variables and set a class instance and remember to clean up afterwards. Service Classes as Services ? Old Style The ?framework? way of doing this is to set up the service globally, decide whether you need the service for this application, then if the app will need it, have the framework load the class once as the framework loads, and the framework cleans up the class as the framework unloads. Option Compare Database Option Explicit Private mclsZip As dclsZip Private mblnZipInitialized As Boolean Public Function ZipInit() If mblnZipInitialized = False Then 'setup a pointer to the class Set mclsZip = New dclsZip mblnZipInitialized = True End If End Function Public Function ZipTerm() 'cleanup the pointer to the class Set mclsZip = Nothing End Function Public Function cZip() As dclsZip ZipInit Set cZip = mclsZip End Function Your app can if desired just call the cZip function which initializes the zip class if it is not initialized, then returns a pointer to the class which you use to zip your file. Generally though you would place a call to the zip class? init in your framework?s init function, and a call to the zip class? term in your framework?s term(). Private mblnFWInitialized As Boolean Function FWInit() If mblnFWInitialized = False Then ' mblnFWInitialized = True ZipInit End If End Function Function FWTerm() ZipTerm End FunctionPrivate mblnFWInitialized As Boolean This lets the framework worry about what is required to set it up and what is required to clean it up. The zip class is just a service and is available if you need it. Of course it is inefficient to load services that the app simply doesn?t need. Once we have covered the SysVar class I will show you how to turn on/off services using SysVars, and even how to override the default behaviors inside of the application to turn on a service that is off by default (as Zip would normally be). So this method basically sets up a global (but private) pointer to a service class, then provides functions to init(), Term() and return a pointer to the class. This is one step up from the first method we described where the developer does it all right in the form / function where the class is used. This method provides the advantage of having the class initialized and terminated automatically which is a good thing, the developer no longer has to worry about that stuff, and as we know forgetting to terminate classes can have serious consequences so the fact that the framework cleans it up for us is a major reason to use this method. The downside is that generally, once loaded it stays loaded. This may or may not actually be a downside, occasionally a service class has to do some time consuming setup task and once loaded it is just better to leave it loaded. Again, it is up to the developer to decide which is right for him, but my feeling is that in modern computers if my application needs to zip a file, the memory overhead of leaving a zip class loaded is acceptable, I?m not going to worry too much about the additional few Kbytes of memory. In many cases it is possible to set up service classes that you can load and unload at will, while still allowing the framework supervisor to do the init() / term(), so if you are the type that is going to lose sleep over leaving the class loaded, look at doing that. Service Classes as Services ? Framework Foundation Style My preference is to use a class that is the foundation of the framework, which I will call clsFramework. ClsFramework is then initialized in an Init module and a pointer to that class is passed back to the caller. The service classes all have variables dimensioned in the header of clsFramework and clsFramework then has methods that pass pointers to the various service classes back to the caller. The module that initializes and terminates the framework looks like: Option Compare Database Option Explicit Private mcnn As ADODB.Connection 'currentproject connection Private mfwcnn As ADODB.Connection 'A connection for the code project Private mclsFramework As clsFramework 'The framework foundation class Private mblnFWInitialized As Boolean 'A boolean to tell us that we have already initialized Function FWInit() If mblnFWInitialized = False Then ' mblnFWInitialized = True Set mfwcnn = CodeProject.Connection Set mcnn = CurrentProject.Connection Randomize Set mclsFramework = New clsFramework mclsFramework.Init Nothing End If End Function Function FWTerm() mclsFramework.Term Set mclsFramework = Nothing End Function Function FW() As clsFramework Set FW = mclsFramework End Function Function gcnn() As ADODB.Connection Set gcnn = mcnn End Function Function gfwcnn() As ADODB.Connection Set gfwcnn = mfwcnn End Function A couple of notes: One programming ?best practices? says that we should make our global variables for things like the framework class ?read only? by dimming them private in a module. We then perform our initialization and create a function that returns a pointer to that ?read only? variable. This allows the developer to use the framework (or other variable) freely but doesn?t allow them to unintentionally (or intentionally) set that variable to nothing, inadvertently crashing the system. Thus I have a private framework variable, an Init() that gets called to initialize the framework, a term() that is called to shut down the framework, and a function that returns a pointer to the framework class instance. Notice I also have ?global? pointer functions to the application and framework project (Access FEs) connections for ADO. We need both since we will eventually be referencing data in the framework (Sysvars) as well as in the Application. Now that we have a framework class, when we need service classes we just put private variables for those classes in the header of that class and allow the init of the framework class to initialize the service classes. clsFramework is just our template class as the base, with stuff added so we have already seen all of the generic ?framework? stuff that comes with any class in our system. We dim a couple of variables to handle the zip class. '*+ custom variables declarations 'Service class for Zip Private mclsZip As dclsZip Private mblnZipInitialized As Boolean '*- custom variables declarations As I have mentioned before, we use the class? Initialize event to set all of our class and collection pointers to new instances of that object. This will change once we get a SysVars class functioning but for now: Private Sub Class_Initialize() Set mclsZip = New dclsZip End Sub In the Init() of the framework class we initialize the zip class: Public Sub Init(ByRef robjParent As Object) mclsZip.Init Nothing End Sub And in the term of the framework class we cleanup the zip class: Public Sub Term() mclsZip.Term Set mclsZip = Nothing End Sub All of which allows the framework to do the work for us of setting up and cleaning up the various service classes. We can if we wish set up a private method of the framework class to initialize the zip class: '*+PRIVATE Class function / sub declaration Private Function ZipInit() If mblnZipInitialized = False Then 'setup a pointer to the class Set mclsZip = New dclsZip mblnZipInitialized = True End If End Function '*-PRIVATE Class function / sub declaration This allows us to not initialize the class in the framework?s Init() or Initialize and simply do so when and if the service class is ever used. We then build a method in the framework class to expose the pointer to the service class: '*+PUBLIC Class function / sub declaration Public Function cZip() As dclsZip ZipInit Set cZip = mclsZip End Function '*-PUBLIC Class function / sub declaration This has a tiny overhead of calling the init function for the Zip class every time we try to get a pointer to the class, but that may be acceptable to avoid having the class always loaded. So now, in your code to zip a file you simply call the function that gets a pointer to the framework: Fw Add a reference to the zip method of the framework class, which of course gets a pointer to the zip class: Fw.cZip Then call the various properties / methods of that class: Fw.cZip.ZipFile = CurrentProject.Path & "\" & "TextZipDemoCtlClassV2.Zip" Summary My preference when building is to build a foundation class which is tasked with setting up and tearing down all of the various classes that will be used by the framework itself or the application as services. One of the advantages of this is that you no longer have to worry about exposing all of the various classes in the framework library, plus you get the peace of mind of knowing that the framework foundation class will handle all of the work of setting up and tearing down the classes automatically. If we develop the framework correctly, once it is in use in the application we won?t be forgetting to terminate a class somewhere and hanging Access or even Windows. Class programming can be made easier by using a framework to handle all of the setup and teardown processes for us. Of course we still have to get it all set up and working as a framework, but once in use out in your application it all just runs like a well oiled machine, always, every time. John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com From jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com Fri Mar 19 19:32:45 2004 From: jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com (John W. Colby) Date: Fri, 19 Mar 2004 20:32:45 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] RE: [Accessed] New EMail Address In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Thanks for reminding me of this. I used a service that builds that numeric string (and hope they aren't spammers;) webemail@colbycon 15;ulting.com Used Dreamweaver to search and replace the old mailto, then put it to my site. Should all be fixed up. Now if that address starts getting hammered we will know that either the service that built the string was a spammer or the harvesters aren't fooled by this trick. In the end however, the email address is a custom address just for my web site and I can change it on a moment's notice. John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Jim Lawrence (AccessD) Sent: Thursday, March 18, 2004 11:28 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] New EMail Address Hi John: Do not forget to set up your new address in the contact section of your web site as follows so spam-bots will not be able just extract it. (It does not matter what shows on the screen, it is what is in the page code that the 'bots' search for.) HTH Jim -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of John W. Colby Sent: Thursday, March 18, 2004 7:59 PM To: AccessD Subject: [AccessD] New EMail Address Anyone who has me in their address book should note that my email address has changed to jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com (notice the W). I have turned off jcolby at colbyconsulting.com due to an overwhelming flood of spam, approaching 300 spam emails a day. While my email filter was extremely accurate in getting them out of my inbox there is the occasional (1 in 500 or so) false positives where a good email gets put out in the spam folder. It is getting very hard to find them so it's time to just shut that email box down. Sorry for the inconvenience. John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com Fri Mar 19 19:35:54 2004 From: jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com (John W. Colby) Date: Fri, 19 Mar 2004 20:35:54 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Latest fw demo - Service Classes Message-ID: The latest demo database is on my site - click on C2DbFW3G and select v4. It includes a functioning zip form and the classes, module and dlls to use that. If you extract the entire contents of the zip file the zip form should create a zipped file from one of the databases. John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com From artful at rogers.com Fri Mar 19 23:06:05 2004 From: artful at rogers.com (Arthur Fuller) Date: Fri, 19 Mar 2004 21:06:05 -0800 Subject: [AccessD] Short Date Input Mask question In-Reply-To: <009501c40c21$7af0c4f0$c81e65cb@winxp> Message-ID: <000001c40e39$0c4e9da0$6501a8c0@rock> Sadly, your contribution won't work. There's no such thing as default month or year in this particular app. At some point in the future when the org is all caught up, we may get there. At the moment it's 40-60 whether the user is inputting data 10 years old -- or today's. -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of A.D.Tejpal Sent: Wednesday, March 17, 2004 5:12 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Short Date Input Mask question Arthur, Key strokes for date fields could be minimized by setting an input mask incorporating pre-filled default month & year. If it could be of any help, you could look at my sample db named InputMask_dynamic at Rogers Access Library (other developers section) - http://www.rogersaccesslibrary.com Amongst other things (e.g. phone nos etc.), it demonstrates input mask for date field, with desired month & year pre-filled. It may be mentioned that the option is not confined merely to the current month & year (which of course is the default option when the data entry form opens). The user can set any other desired values for either. Regards, A.D.Tejpal ----- Original Message ----- From: Gustav Brock To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Sent: Wednesday, March 17, 2004 15:15 Subject: Re: [AccessD] Short Date Input Mask question Hi Arthur It's not a shortcoming. Input masks are called this as their purpose is to force the user to follow an input sequence - not to type "something" that can be interpreted as a date string. As Bryan has stated, one of the features of Access is that it does a pretty good job of transferring "something" typed in a textbox into a full date string. As such, it can assume a default year; could Access also assume a default month (so "20" would turn into "2004-03-20") we would approach Paradise. Having said that, I once used input masks for entry of time on the format hh:nn where the user can either tab into the textbox or click at some arbitrary position in it and type ahead while preserving default values for all digits. As you all know, input must be limited to 0-2, 0-9 OR 0-4, 0-5 for the first three positions - not an easy task, but it can be done. The inputmask helps as it allows you to set the start and length of the selection no matter what the user has typed or how he/she is editing. /gustav > The standard short date input mask (99/99/0000;0;_) has a shortcoming > that I hate: you have to type 04/04/04 to get April 4th 2004. The year > handling is nice but the month and day suck. The mask won't let you type > 4/4/04. Is there an alternative mask that will respond intelligently to > such input? Or should I instead just remove all the input masks from all > the date fields? > TIA, > Arthur -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From artful at rogers.com Fri Mar 19 23:10:53 2004 From: artful at rogers.com (Arthur Fuller) Date: Fri, 19 Mar 2004 21:10:53 -0800 Subject: [AccessD] Short Date Input Mask question In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <000101c40e39$b8af7dd0$6501a8c0@rock> Thanks Bryan! Yo Canada! -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Bryan Carbonnell Sent: Wednesday, March 17, 2004 6:12 AM To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: RE: [AccessD] Short Date Input Mask question Well, here is a start for the tables Arthur. Can't help wiht the forms though. First off, set a reference to DAO and add the following sub. It will get rid of the InputMasks in all the tables. I only tested it against local tables, so linked tables may or may not work. IF these changes are going to be distributed to and end user's site and you can't get at the "working" data, you may want to have a look at the BEU. Anyway, here is the code: Sub ClearInputMask() Dim db As DAO.Database Dim tdf As DAO.TableDef Dim fld As DAO.Field Set db = CurrentDb() 'Looop through all the tabledefs For Each tdf In db.TableDefs 'loop through all the fields in the tabledef If Left$(tdf.Name, 4) <> "Msys" Then For Each fld In tdf.Fields 'See if the field is a date field If fld.Type = dbDate Then 'A date/time field 'Ignore errors, because one will be generated if there ' is no input mask defined On Error Resume Next fld.Properties.Delete "InputMask" End If Next End If Next Set fld = Nothing Set tdf = Nothing Set db = Nothing End Sub Bryan Carbonnell bryan_carbonnell at cbc.ca From d.dick at uws.edu.au Sat Mar 20 03:36:48 2004 From: d.dick at uws.edu.au (Darren DICK) Date: Sat, 20 Mar 2004 20:36:48 +1100 Subject: [AccessD] A2K: Stop Code, Accept Input then restart code References: Message-ID: <007b01c40e60$248d8440$43669a89@DDICK> Thanks John and Jim I'll give it a go (both) methods Darren ----- Original Message ----- From: "Jim Lawrence (AccessD)" To: "Access Developers discussion and problem solving" Sent: Friday, March 19, 2004 1:34 PM Subject: RE: [AccessD] A2K: Stop Code, Accept Input then restart code > Hi Darren: > > Run the second or third form from the 'on timer' event that should allow > multiple processes to run or/and use the DoEvents.. > > > globalvariable1 = True > DoCmd.OpenForm "Form2" > > Do While globalvariable1 = True > DoEvents > Loop > > DoCmd.Close ,"Form2", acSaveYes > > > This will hold things relatively static until any process unsets the global > variable. > > HTH > Jim > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Darren DICK > Sent: Thursday, March 18, 2004 6:06 PM > To: AccessD List > Subject: [AccessD] A2K: Stop Code, Accept Input then restart code > > > Hello all > I have code on Form 1 that alerts the user to something > What I want to do is half way through the alert code, stop the alert code, > open form 2 (a popup form) > Allow user to select a value from a combo on Form 2. Close form 2 then pass > that value from Form 2 > back to the Alert code on Form 1 and continue processing the Alert code > using the value passed from Form 2 > > What I don't know how to do is...Stop processing the Alert Code in Form 1 - > I do know how to get ....A value from Form 2 > What I don't know how to do is...Start processing the Alert Code in Form 1 > again with the new value > > Make sense? Am I going about this the right way? > > Many thanks in advance > > Darren > > > > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From HollisVJ at pgdp.usec.com Sat Mar 20 08:27:19 2004 From: HollisVJ at pgdp.usec.com (Hollis,Virginia) Date: Sat, 20 Mar 2004 08:27:19 -0600 Subject: [AccessD] Quotes Wrong - Format Message-ID: <618EB4D6DDCDD3119B0A00508B6FD37A0CB0D38E@cntexchange.pgdp.usec.com> Me.lblNew.Caption = "You are adding Request Task" & Nz(DMax((Format("[RequestTask]", """VEN-""0000")), "qry_VenTask")) + 1 When I go to a new record, I want the caption of lblNew to show "You are adding Request Task VEN-0041", with the RequestTask number formatted with the 0000s. I am having problems with formatting VEN-0041. Without the Format('[RequestTask].... I get just the number 0041. I think it is the placement of my quotes? Virginia From gustav at cactus.dk Sat Mar 20 08:41:49 2004 From: gustav at cactus.dk (Gustav Brock) Date: Sat, 20 Mar 2004 15:41:49 +0100 Subject: [AccessD] Quotes Wrong - Format In-Reply-To: <618EB4D6DDCDD3119B0A00508B6FD37A0CB0D38E@cntexchange.pgdp.usec.com> References: <618EB4D6DDCDD3119B0A00508B6FD37A0CB0D38E@cntexchange.pgdp.usec.com> Message-ID: <17520466679.20040320154149@cactus.dk> Hi Virginia I think you've got it "turned inside out" ... Try this (note the space): Me.lblNew.Caption = "You are adding Request Task " & Format( _ Nz(DMax("[RequestTask]", "qry_VenTask"), 0) + 1, _ "\V\E\N\-0000") /gustav > Me.lblNew.Caption = "You are adding Request Task" & > Nz(DMax((Format("[RequestTask]", """VEN-""0000")), "qry_VenTask")) + 1 > When I go to a new record, I want the caption of lblNew to show "You are > adding Request Task VEN-0041", with the RequestTask number formatted with > the 0000s. I am having problems with formatting VEN-0041. Without the > Format('[RequestTask].... I get just the number 0041. I think it is the > placement of my quotes? > Virginia From dwaters at usinternet.com Sat Mar 20 08:52:59 2004 From: dwaters at usinternet.com (Dan Waters) Date: Sat, 20 Mar 2004 08:52:59 -0600 Subject: [AccessD] Synchronize with Palm or PocketPC New ? In-Reply-To: <1742636.1079740424499.JavaMail.root@sniper.marix.com> Message-ID: <000001c40e8b$09d69f80$de1811d8@DanWaters> I would like to collect data on a PDA (Palm or PocketPC), and then synchronize it later with an Access database. The scenario is that shop floor inspectors don't have PC access, can use a PDA. At the end of their shift, they can go to a PC somewhere else an synchronize the data into the database on the PC. I don't need to run Access on a PDA. Dan -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of jmhla at earthlink.net Sent: Friday, March 19, 2004 5:51 PM To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: RE: [AccessD] Synchronize with Palm or PocketPC New ? What do you need to run Access on a Palm PDA? I got the access side? Original Message: ----------------- From: Dan Waters dwaters at usinternet.com Date: Fri, 19 Mar 2004 14:04:02 -0600 To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: [AccessD] Synchronize with Palm or PocketPC Hello everyone, I have a client where a possibly good solution would be to enter information into a PDA and then synchronize it with an Access app once per day. Can anyone point me in a direction to learn more about this? Anyone have any good/lousy experiences? Thanks! Dan Waters -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -------------------------------------------------------------------- mail2web - Check your email from the web at http://mail2web.com/ . -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From mikedorism at adelphia.net Sat Mar 20 08:58:20 2004 From: mikedorism at adelphia.net (Mike & Doris Manning) Date: Sat, 20 Mar 2004 09:58:20 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Quotes Wrong - Format In-Reply-To: <618EB4D6DDCDD3119B0A00508B6FD37A0CB0D38E@cntexchange.pgdp.usec.com> Message-ID: <000001c40e8b$c94100e0$6ae44344@hargrove.internal> Try... Me.lblNew.Caption = "You are adding Request Task VEN-" & Nz(DMax((Format("[RequestTask]", "0000")), "qry_VenTask")) + 1 Doris Manning Database Administrator Hargrove Inc. www.hargroveinc.com -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Hollis,Virginia Sent: Saturday, March 20, 2004 9:27 AM To: 'AccessD at databaseadvisors.com' Subject: [AccessD] Quotes Wrong - Format Me.lblNew.Caption = "You are adding Request Task" & Nz(DMax((Format("[RequestTask]", """VEN-""0000")), "qry_VenTask")) + 1 When I go to a new record, I want the caption of lblNew to show "You are adding Request Task VEN-0041", with the RequestTask number formatted with the 0000s. I am having problems with formatting VEN-0041. Without the Format('[RequestTask].... I get just the number 0041. I think it is the placement of my quotes? Virginia -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From HollisVJ at pgdp.usec.com Sat Mar 20 08:55:48 2004 From: HollisVJ at pgdp.usec.com (Hollis,Virginia) Date: Sat, 20 Mar 2004 08:55:48 -0600 Subject: [AccessD] Quotes Wrong - Format Message-ID: <618EB4D6DDCDD3119B0A00508B6FD37A0CB0D38F@cntexchange.pgdp.usec.com> That worked, Thanks. I get it, I had to format the complete expression, not just the task. Just like me this week - all inside out & a little upside down (bad week). :-) -----Original Message----- From: Gustav Brock [mailto:gustav at cactus.dk] Sent: Saturday, March 20, 2004 8:42 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Quotes Wrong - Format Hi Virginia I think you've got it "turned inside out" ... Try this (note the space): Me.lblNew.Caption = "You are adding Request Task " & Format( _ Nz(DMax("[RequestTask]", "qry_VenTask"), 0) + 1, _ "\V\E\N\-0000") /gustav > Me.lblNew.Caption = "You are adding Request Task" & > Nz(DMax((Format("[RequestTask]", """VEN-""0000")), "qry_VenTask")) + 1 > When I go to a new record, I want the caption of lblNew to show "You are > adding Request Task VEN-0041", with the RequestTask number formatted with > the 0000s. I am having problems with formatting VEN-0041. Without the > Format('[RequestTask].... I get just the number 0041. I think it is the > placement of my quotes? > Virginia -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From bchacc at san.rr.com Sat Mar 20 09:07:47 2004 From: bchacc at san.rr.com (Rocky Smolin - Beach Access Software) Date: Sat, 20 Mar 2004 07:07:47 -0800 Subject: [AccessD] Version of Jet Message-ID: <002601c40e8d$1b3dd070$6601a8c0@HAL9002> Dear List: How do I determine which versions of Jet are loaded on my system? Thanks in advance, Rocky Smolin Beach Access Software http://www.e-z-mrp.com From music at weblnk.net Sat Mar 20 09:26:17 2004 From: music at weblnk.net (Jason Strickland) Date: Sat, 20 Mar 2004 10:26:17 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Synchronize with Palm or PocketPC New ? In-Reply-To: <000001c40e8b$09d69f80$de1811d8@DanWaters> Message-ID: <200403201527.i2KFQtM10132@databaseadvisors.com> Ddhsoftware.com Handbase software is what you are looking for I believe We are getting ready to implement surveys via PDAs and sync the data into Access so I believe this will work for you. http://ddhsoftware.com/syncexchange_access.html Regards Jason -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Dan Waters Sent: Saturday, March 20, 2004 9:53 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: [AccessD] Synchronize with Palm or PocketPC New ? I would like to collect data on a PDA (Palm or PocketPC), and then synchronize it later with an Access database. The scenario is that shop floor inspectors don't have PC access, can use a PDA. At the end of their shift, they can go to a PC somewhere else an synchronize the data into the database on the PC. I don't need to run Access on a PDA. Dan -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of jmhla at earthlink.net Sent: Friday, March 19, 2004 5:51 PM To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: RE: [AccessD] Synchronize with Palm or PocketPC New ? What do you need to run Access on a Palm PDA? I got the access side? Original Message: ----------------- From: Dan Waters dwaters at usinternet.com Date: Fri, 19 Mar 2004 14:04:02 -0600 To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: [AccessD] Synchronize with Palm or PocketPC Hello everyone, I have a client where a possibly good solution would be to enter information into a PDA and then synchronize it with an Access app once per day. Can anyone point me in a direction to learn more about this? Anyone have any good/lousy experiences? Thanks! Dan Waters -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -------------------------------------------------------------------- mail2web - Check your email from the web at http://mail2web.com/ . -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From artful at rogers.com Sat Mar 20 12:44:25 2004 From: artful at rogers.com (Arthur Fuller) Date: Sat, 20 Mar 2004 10:44:25 -0800 Subject: [AccessD] Short Date Input Mask question In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <000001c40eab$6358d8a0$6501a8c0@rock> I'm 100% there with you on this, Bryan. I remember once designing an app for a jeweller with 30,000 products in stock... And he knew the code for every single one! It was absurd. He simply did not fail. All my cool lookup techniques (combos, listboxes, etc.) seemed to him completely pointless. Ditto popup calendars and similar "enhancements". Keyboard people hate taking their hands off the keyboard. Especially in OLTP apps, operator speed is paramount. Arthur -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Bryan Carbonnell Sent: Wednesday, March 17, 2004 6:52 AM To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: RE: [AccessD] Short Date Input Mask question Lambert, It may work fine for you, but does it work for your users? Do you force them to use the mouse to select the date, or can they do everything they need to from the keyboard? The only reason I bring this up is that I have had RSI from moving between the mouse and keyboard for data entry too much. It got to the point where by 10 AM I could not feel my little finger and half of my lower arm becaude of it. As soon as I got one application that I used on a regular basis more keyboard friendly it helped. Just try to keep that in mind. I know I always do. I let users use the mouse or enter with the keyboard. Their choice. Bryan Carbonnell bryan_carbonnell at cbc.ca >>> Lambert.Heenan at AIG.com 17-Mar-04 9:21:45 AM >>> My solution to date entry is simple - I never let user's type in a date. They always pick the date from a simple calendar form (though I don't use the MS Calendar control). Click on a date field and up pops the date picker. While this would not be suitable, perhaps, in applications where massive numbers of dates need to be entered, I find it works just fine for me. Lambert -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From martyconnelly at shaw.ca Sat Mar 20 10:11:38 2004 From: martyconnelly at shaw.ca (MartyConnelly) Date: Sat, 20 Mar 2004 08:11:38 -0800 Subject: [AccessD] Connect to DB2 References: <67B2D43A2067B248A36B007650A2312C35F88A@PSJOE2K1.fxfwest.freight.fedex.com> <405B4F13.302@shaw.ca> Message-ID: <405C6D3A.5090200@shaw.ca> These might help too: Getting Started with DB2 V8 and ADO using Visual Basic 6 http://www-106.ibm.com/developerworks/db2/library/techarticle/0302hasin/0302hasin.html DB2 Development Add-Ins for Visual Studio 6.0 - The Next Generation AD Tooling In here is description of auto tool to generate ADO connection string called DB2 Development Add-In for Visual Basic 6.0 It will generate a string complete with sample code based on the driver used. http://www-106.ibm.com/developerworks/db2/library/techarticle/0208alazzawe/0208alazzawe.html Leverage your SQL Server 2000 Skills to Learn DB2 UDB v8 http://searchdatabase.techtarget.com/tip/1,289483,sid13_gci947038,00.html?FromTaxonomy=%2Fpr%2F286330 Just in case you have installed DB2 incorrectly see Installing and configuring DB2 UDB V8 http://searchdatabase.techtarget.com/tip/1,289483,sid13_gci931151,00.html?FromTaxonomy=%2Fpr%2F286330 MartyConnelly wrote: > > That provider doesn't come with MDAC. It only comes with MS HIS Server > The Host Integration Server 2000 (was MS SNA server). You are now > talking in $2,500 range I think plus cost of win2003 or 2000 server > You have to differentiate between whether you are connecting via SNA > or TCP/IP > There is a HIS Beta available and a 120 day trial > http://www.microsoft.com/hiserver/beta/default.asp > > see this newsgroup microsoft.public.snaserver.programming > > Host Integration Server is an integration solution for connectivity > to a mainframe OS/390 (appears as a cluster > controller, PU2 device), AS/400 OS/400 (appears as a PU2.1 LEN node) > > Symtrax iSeries OLE DB Driver free trial for AS400 > http://www.symtrax.com/en/products/oledb/ > > Or you might get IBM's oledb version, it maybe inside Free Personal > DB2 edition, haven't looked in a few years. > There is another version for dotNet. > > DB2 Personal Developer's Edition (DB2 Personal Developers Edition for > Windows (x86, 32-bit)) 500 Meg download > http://www14.software.ibm.com/webapp/download/preconfig.jsp?id=2003-09-12+10%3A53%3A49.025154R&S_TACT=TrialsAndBetas&S_CMP=&s= > > > Millard, Paul --- Sr. Developer Analyst ---WGO wrote: > >> Yeah, I found this site yesterday and plugged in the oledb db2 >> connection string and Access gave me an error about cannot find a >> provider. >> How does one get a provider for db2? >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com >> [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Jim Lawrence >> (AccessD) >> Sent: Thursday, March 18, 2004 6:07 PM >> To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving >> Subject: RE: [AccessD] Connect to DB2 >> >> >> Hi Paul: >> >> Check this site out. It gives a number of DB2 connection examples >> depending >> on what and how you require the connection. >> >> http://www.able-consulting.com/ADO_Conn.htm >> >> HTH >> Jim >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com >> [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Millard, Paul >> --- Sr. Developer Analyst ---WGO >> Sent: Thursday, March 18, 2004 2:02 PM >> To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving >> Subject: [AccessD] Connect to DB2 >> >> >> >> Folks, >> >> Can anyone help me connect to a db2 database. I've seen multiple >> ways to >> connect using OLEDB Connection strings but I'm not sure what the >> database >> name and format should be. Below is a QMF SQL query tool .ini file >> used to >> connect to the database. >> >> If anyone can provide the string along with exact values based upon info >> below that would be great. >> >> Thanks, >> Paul >> >> [Server Parameters] >> Server1=HOST >> Server2=HOSTDSNB >> [HOST] >> RDBName=AFDSNP >> CollectionName=QMFWIN >> HostName=AFW1.HRO.AF.COM >> Port=446 >> SymDestName=*TCP/IP* >> DefaultSchedule1=Y00000078000003840009601710000012C0000000000000000000200000 >> >> 00007FDFFFE00002710XX >> DefaultSchedule2=@ >> 0000000000000000 >> DefaultSchedule3=2 >> DefaultSchedule4= >> QueryBlockSize=32500 >> DecimalDelimiter=Period >> StringDelimiter=Apostrophe >> IsolationLevel=CursorStability >> BindReplace=1 >> BindKeep=1 >> BindOwner= >> xSingleCCSID=37 >> xMixedCCSID=0 >> xDoubleCCSID=0 >> xQMFCCSID=37 >> [HOSTDSNB] >> RDBName=AFDSNT >> CollectionName=QMFWIN >> HostName=AFW2.HRO.AF.COM >> Port=5030 >> SymDestName=*TCP/IP* >> DefaultSchedule1=Y00000078000003840009601710000012C0000000000000000000200000 >> >> 00007FDFFFE00002710XX >> DefaultSchedule2=@ >> 0000000000000000 >> DefaultSchedule3=2 >> DefaultSchedule4= >> QueryBlockSize=32500 >> DecimalDelimiter=Period >> StringDelimiter=Apostrophe >> IsolationLevel=CursorStability >> BindReplace=1 >> BindKeep=1 >> BindOwner= >> xSingleCCSID=37 >> xMixedCCSID=0 >> xDoubleCCSID=0 >> xQMFCCSID=37 >> >> >> ********************************************************** >> This message contains information that is confidential >> and proprietary to FedEx Freight or its affiliates. >> It is intended only for the recipient named and for >> the express purpose(s) described therein. >> Any other use is prohibited. >> **************************************************************** >> >> -- >> _______________________________________________ >> AccessD mailing list >> AccessD at databaseadvisors.com >> http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd >> Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com >> >> >> > -- Marty Connelly Victoria, B.C. Canada From davesharpe2 at cox.net Sat Mar 20 11:20:49 2004 From: davesharpe2 at cox.net (Dave Sharpe) Date: Sat, 20 Mar 2004 12:20:49 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Version of Jet References: <002601c40e8d$1b3dd070$6601a8c0@HAL9002> Message-ID: <001d01c40e9f$b0d9f700$dd2f0a44@bcsext6137> Rocky Page http://support.microsoft.com/default.aspx?kbid=239114 Entitled How To: Obtain the Latest Service Pack for the Microsoft Jet 4.0 Database Engine Contains a section How to Determine the Current Service Pack Level of Jet 4.0 Use the following steps to determine the Jet 4.0 service pack level that is currently installed on your computer. Note Because there are several versions of Microsoft Windows, the following steps may be different on your computer. If they are, see your product documentation to complete these steps. On the Start menu, click Search. In the Search Results pane, click All files and folders under Search Companion. In the All or part of the file name box, type msjet40.dll, and then click Search. In the list of files, right-click the Msjet40.dll file that is located in the Windows\System32 (or Windows\System) folder, and then click Properties. Click the Version tab, and then use the following table to determine the current Jet 4.0 service pack level: Msjet40.dll Version Jet 4.0 Service Pack Level 4.0.2927.4 Service Pack 3 (SP3) 4.0.3714.7 Service Pack 4 (SP4) 4.0.4431.1 or 4.0.4431.3 Service Pack 5 (SP5) 4.0.6218.0 Service Pack 6 (SP6) 4.0.6807.0 Service Pack 6 (SP6) shipped only with Windows Server 2003 4.0.7328.0 Service Pack 7 (SP7) 4.0.8015.0 Service Pack 8 (SP8) I hope that this helps. Dave ----- Original Message ----- From: "Rocky Smolin - Beach Access Software" To: Sent: Saturday, March 20, 2004 10:07 AM Subject: [AccessD] Version of Jet Dear List: How do I determine which versions of Jet are loaded on my system? Thanks in advance, Rocky Smolin Beach Access Software http://www.e-z-mrp.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From caa at highway.com.br Sat Mar 20 12:39:53 2004 From: caa at highway.com.br (Carlos Alberto Alves) Date: Sat, 20 Mar 2004 15:39:53 -0300 Subject: [AccessD] zip/unzip In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On Thu, 18 Mar 2004 10:08:21 -0600, wrote: > > > > > is this waht you are looking for > http://www.vbaccelerator.com/home/VB/Code/Libraries/Compression/Introduction_to_the_Info-ZIP_Libraries/Info-ZIP_Zip_DLL_(Renamed_vbzip10_dll).asp > There is another way to zip/unzip files from code. Go to WinZip page (or any other Zip utility that accepts command line) and download some docs with command line options. ZipCentral is a freeware utility that in its V4.0 accepts command line. Brazip is a brazilian utility (shareware found on http://www.brazip.com.br)that also accepts command line and has an English interface. In your code you can use a Shell to execute commands and options. I have both files (.PDF) for winZip. They are 90Kb. I may send it to you offline, if you wish. ;-) -- ****************************** * Carlos Alberto Alves * * Child Neurologist * * Systems Analyst/Programmer * * Rio de Janeiro, Brazil * * mailto:caa at highway.com.br * ****************************** From bchacc at san.rr.com Sat Mar 20 13:16:42 2004 From: bchacc at san.rr.com (Rocky Smolin - Beach Access Software) Date: Sat, 20 Mar 2004 11:16:42 -0800 Subject: [AccessD] Version of Jet References: <002601c40e8d$1b3dd070$6601a8c0@HAL9002> <001d01c40e9f$b0d9f700$dd2f0a44@bcsext6137> Message-ID: <00fc01c40eaf$e0d9c3d0$6601a8c0@HAL9002> Dave: Perfect. Thank you. Rocky ----- Original Message ----- From: "Dave Sharpe" To: "Access Developers discussion and problem solving" Sent: Saturday, March 20, 2004 9:20 AM Subject: Re: [AccessD] Version of Jet > Rocky > > Page > http://support.microsoft.com/default.aspx?kbid=239114 > > Entitled > How To: Obtain the Latest Service Pack for the Microsoft Jet 4.0 Database > Engine > > Contains a section > How to Determine the Current Service Pack Level of Jet 4.0 > Use the following steps to determine the Jet 4.0 service pack level that is > currently installed on your computer. > > Note Because there are several versions of Microsoft Windows, the following > steps may be different on your computer. If they are, see your product > documentation to complete these steps. > > On the Start menu, click Search. > > In the Search Results pane, click All files and folders under Search > Companion. > > In the All or part of the file name box, type msjet40.dll, and then click > Search. > > In the list of files, right-click the Msjet40.dll file that is located in > the Windows\System32 (or Windows\System) folder, and then click Properties. > > Click the Version tab, and then use the following table to determine the > current Jet 4.0 service pack level: > > Msjet40.dll Version Jet 4.0 Service Pack Level > 4.0.2927.4 Service Pack 3 (SP3) > 4.0.3714.7 Service Pack 4 (SP4) > 4.0.4431.1 or 4.0.4431.3 Service Pack 5 (SP5) > 4.0.6218.0 Service Pack 6 (SP6) > 4.0.6807.0 Service Pack 6 (SP6) shipped only with Windows Server 2003 > 4.0.7328.0 Service Pack 7 (SP7) > 4.0.8015.0 Service Pack 8 (SP8) > > I hope that this helps. > > Dave > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Rocky Smolin - Beach Access Software" > To: > Sent: Saturday, March 20, 2004 10:07 AM > Subject: [AccessD] Version of Jet > > > Dear List: > > How do I determine which versions of Jet are loaded on my system? > > Thanks in advance, > > Rocky Smolin > Beach Access Software > http://www.e-z-mrp.com > > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > From martyconnelly at shaw.ca Sat Mar 20 13:15:28 2004 From: martyconnelly at shaw.ca (MartyConnelly) Date: Sat, 20 Mar 2004 11:15:28 -0800 Subject: [AccessD] Version of Jet References: <002601c40e8d$1b3dd070$6601a8c0@HAL9002> <001d01c40e9f$b0d9f700$dd2f0a44@bcsext6137> Message-ID: <405C9850.1040804@shaw.ca> Here is some code, I've footled around with awhile ago. It only returns the Jet Version and Access Version of the Access Program running but you could adapt to search out all the Jet Versions installed Jet35, Jet40 etc. From Reinier Olislagers site http://www.xs4all.nl/~rolislag/accver/ It doesn't go back to Jet 1.0, I think you have to search DAO dll versions for this Code is missing a couple of versions 'Msjet40.dll 4.0.4431.1 Jet 5 SP 'Msjet40.dll 4.0.6218.0 Jet 6 SP ' Msjet40.dll 4.0.8015.0 Jet SP 8 'Here is what I get from Access 2003 Beta 2 or Access 11 'Access: 11.0.4920.5 (unknown Access version) 'Jet: 4.0.7328.0 (UNKNOWN ACCESS VERSION) Using latest SP7. 'I think original Beta 2 came with SP6 'There were a couple of Beta releases of SP7 ' there is also Jet SP8, haven't installed yet The DLL Hell database doesn't list all Jet Versions http://support.microsoft.com/default.aspx?scid=http%3a%2f%2fsupport.microsoft.com%2fservicedesks%2ffileversion%2fdllinfo.asp&fp=1 Dave Sharpe wrote: >Rocky > >Page >http://support.microsoft.com/default.aspx?kbid=239114 > >Entitled >How To: Obtain the Latest Service Pack for the Microsoft Jet 4.0 Database >Engine > >Contains a section >How to Determine the Current Service Pack Level of Jet 4.0 >Use the following steps to determine the Jet 4.0 service pack level that is >currently installed on your computer. > >Note Because there are several versions of Microsoft Windows, the following >steps may be different on your computer. If they are, see your product >documentation to complete these steps. > >On the Start menu, click Search. > >In the Search Results pane, click All files and folders under Search >Companion. > >In the All or part of the file name box, type msjet40.dll, and then click >Search. > >In the list of files, right-click the Msjet40.dll file that is located in >the Windows\System32 (or Windows\System) folder, and then click Properties. > >Click the Version tab, and then use the following table to determine the >current Jet 4.0 service pack level: > >Msjet40.dll Version Jet 4.0 Service Pack Level >4.0.2927.4 Service Pack 3 (SP3) >4.0.3714.7 Service Pack 4 (SP4) >4.0.4431.1 or 4.0.4431.3 Service Pack 5 (SP5) >4.0.6218.0 Service Pack 6 (SP6) >4.0.6807.0 Service Pack 6 (SP6) shipped only with Windows Server 2003 >4.0.7328.0 Service Pack 7 (SP7) >4.0.8015.0 Service Pack 8 (SP8) > >I hope that this helps. > >Dave > > >----- Original Message ----- >From: "Rocky Smolin - Beach Access Software" >To: >Sent: Saturday, March 20, 2004 10:07 AM >Subject: [AccessD] Version of Jet > > >Dear List: > >How do I determine which versions of Jet are loaded on my system? > >Thanks in advance, > >Rocky Smolin >Beach Access Software >http://www.e-z-mrp.com > > > -- Marty Connelly Victoria, B.C. Canada From davesharpe2 at cox.net Sat Mar 20 13:22:29 2004 From: davesharpe2 at cox.net (Dave Sharpe) Date: Sat, 20 Mar 2004 14:22:29 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Version of Jet References: <002601c40e8d$1b3dd070$6601a8c0@HAL9002><001d01c40e9f$b0d9f700$dd2f0a44@bcsext6137> <00fc01c40eaf$e0d9c3d0$6601a8c0@HAL9002> Message-ID: <001201c40eb0$afd0b4a0$dd2f0a44@bcsext6137> Rocky You're more than welcome, I 'm glad that I could be of service. Dave ----- Original Message ----- From: "Rocky Smolin - Beach Access Software" To: "Access Developers discussion and problem solving" Sent: Saturday, March 20, 2004 2:16 PM Subject: Re: [AccessD] Version of Jet Dave: Perfect. Thank you. Rocky ----- Original Message ----- From: "Dave Sharpe" To: "Access Developers discussion and problem solving" Sent: Saturday, March 20, 2004 9:20 AM Subject: Re: [AccessD] Version of Jet > Rocky > > Page > http://support.microsoft.com/default.aspx?kbid=239114 > > Entitled > How To: Obtain the Latest Service Pack for the Microsoft Jet 4.0 Database > Engine > > Contains a section > How to Determine the Current Service Pack Level of Jet 4.0 > Use the following steps to determine the Jet 4.0 service pack level that is > currently installed on your computer. > > Note Because there are several versions of Microsoft Windows, the following > steps may be different on your computer. If they are, see your product > documentation to complete these steps. > > On the Start menu, click Search. > > In the Search Results pane, click All files and folders under Search > Companion. > > In the All or part of the file name box, type msjet40.dll, and then click > Search. > > In the list of files, right-click the Msjet40.dll file that is located in > the Windows\System32 (or Windows\System) folder, and then click Properties. > > Click the Version tab, and then use the following table to determine the > current Jet 4.0 service pack level: > > Msjet40.dll Version Jet 4.0 Service Pack Level > 4.0.2927.4 Service Pack 3 (SP3) > 4.0.3714.7 Service Pack 4 (SP4) > 4.0.4431.1 or 4.0.4431.3 Service Pack 5 (SP5) > 4.0.6218.0 Service Pack 6 (SP6) > 4.0.6807.0 Service Pack 6 (SP6) shipped only with Windows Server 2003 > 4.0.7328.0 Service Pack 7 (SP7) > 4.0.8015.0 Service Pack 8 (SP8) > > I hope that this helps. > > Dave > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Rocky Smolin - Beach Access Software" > To: > Sent: Saturday, March 20, 2004 10:07 AM > Subject: [AccessD] Version of Jet > > > Dear List: > > How do I determine which versions of Jet are loaded on my system? > > Thanks in advance, > > Rocky Smolin > Beach Access Software > http://www.e-z-mrp.com > > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From tinanfields at torchlake.com Sat Mar 20 13:36:49 2004 From: tinanfields at torchlake.com (Tina Norris Fields) Date: Sat, 20 Mar 2004 14:36:49 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Short Date Input Mask question References: Message-ID: <405C9D51.9080609@torchlake.com> Whatever you do, John, don't give up. Don't ever give up. Not everyone will benefit from your excellent work - but that is okay. Many will. And often our job is to plant the seeds and tend the garden, even if we don't get to see the harvest. Don't EVER give up. Thanks for your efforts. Tina John W. Colby wrote: >Stuart, that is a silly thing to say, and exactly the reason that I can't >help but wonder whether anyone at all reads the posts I spend hours writing >and writing example code for. > >Of course "Access does that just fine by itself if you set the format >property to "d mmm yyyyy". > >And now, WE (you and I) have an application where our respective clients >say "I hate that format". I don't know what You do but I go into my sysvar >table and change a SysVar. The next time the app opens all date fields are >formatted however the client wants. > >What exactly DO you do? > >To a man with a search and replace program.... > >Shall I just abandon my attempts to educate this list about what frameworks >can do? Seems a shame, but it sure appears I've wasted about 30 hours so >far. > >John W. Colby >www.ColbyConsulting.com > >-----Original Message----- >From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com >[mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Stuart >McLachlan >Sent: Tuesday, March 16, 2004 5:10 PM >To: Access Developers discussion and problemsolving >Subject: RE: [AccessD] Short Date Input Mask question > > >On 16 Mar 2004 at 15:40, John W. Colby wrote: > > > >>A great case for a framework. Define the various formats you use in your >>text boxes and then tell the framework to figure out that it's a date and >>apply a format. >> >> >> > >To a man with a hammer....... >:-) > >Access does that just fine by itself if you set the format property >to "d mmm yyyyy" or whatever you want in the particular situation. > > >-- >Lexacorp Ltd >http://www.lexacorp.com.pg >Information Technology Consultancy, Software Development,System >Support. > > > >-- >_______________________________________________ >AccessD mailing list >AccessD at databaseadvisors.com >http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd >Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > > From accessd at shaw.ca Sat Mar 20 13:52:14 2004 From: accessd at shaw.ca (Jim Lawrence (AccessD)) Date: Sat, 20 Mar 2004 11:52:14 -0800 Subject: [AccessD] Version of Jet In-Reply-To: <002601c40e8d$1b3dd070$6601a8c0@HAL9002> Message-ID: Hi Rocky: For the current running version: strMDBVersion = CurrentDb.Version ...and for all the version on the current computer the information is stored in: HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE/Software/Microsoft/Jet/{versions} (i.e. /3.5, /4.0 etc.) I do not currently have my program that would pull that info. from the registry but will look if you require same. HTH Jim -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Rocky Smolin - Beach Access Software Sent: Saturday, March 20, 2004 7:08 AM To: AccessD at databaseadvisors.com Subject: [AccessD] Version of Jet Dear List: How do I determine which versions of Jet are loaded on my system? Thanks in advance, Rocky Smolin Beach Access Software http://www.e-z-mrp.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From dwaters at usinternet.com Sat Mar 20 17:22:23 2004 From: dwaters at usinternet.com (Dan Waters) Date: Sat, 20 Mar 2004 17:22:23 -0600 Subject: [AccessD] Synchronize with Palm or PocketPC In-Reply-To: <30521505.1079726875262.JavaMail.root@sniper.marix.com> Message-ID: <000001c40ed2$33a57920$de1811d8@DanWaters> Jason, Gary, and Paul, Thanks for your information! Now I can start walking. Dan -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Dan Waters Sent: Friday, March 19, 2004 2:04 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: [AccessD] Synchronize with Palm or PocketPC Hello everyone, I have a client where a possibly good solution would be to enter information into a PDA and then synchronize it with an Access app once per day. Can anyone point me in a direction to learn more about this? Anyone have any good/lousy experiences? Thanks! Dan Waters -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From carbonnb at sympatico.ca Sat Mar 20 19:58:02 2004 From: carbonnb at sympatico.ca (Bryan Carbonnell) Date: Sat, 20 Mar 2004 20:58:02 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Short Date Input Mask question In-Reply-To: <000101c40e39$b8af7dd0$6501a8c0@rock> References: Message-ID: <405CB05A.15650.291CA8F@localhost> On 19 Mar 2004 at 21:10, Arthur Fuller wrote: > Thanks Bryan! Yo Canada! > > Bryan Carbonnell >> bryan_carbonnell at cbc.ca Your tax dollars hard at work :-)) -- Bryan Carbonnell - carbonnb at sympatico.ca The trouble with doing something right the first time is that nobody appreciates how difficult it is. From carbonnb at sympatico.ca Sat Mar 20 20:02:19 2004 From: carbonnb at sympatico.ca (Bryan Carbonnell) Date: Sat, 20 Mar 2004 21:02:19 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Short Date Input Mask question In-Reply-To: <000001c40eab$6358d8a0$6501a8c0@rock> References: Message-ID: <405CB15B.25157.295B66D@localhost> On 20 Mar 2004 at 10:44, Arthur Fuller wrote: > Ditto popup calendars and similar "enhancements". Keyboard people hate > taking their hands off the keyboard. Especially in OLTP apps, operator > speed is paramount. For me it's got nothing to do with speed. It's giving me, and the end user, the choice because if health issues I have had. Dumb it down for those that want to point-and-click, but don't take away the option for me to type, when I have to to be able to feel my arm at the end of the day. H*ll luchtime some days would be nice. -- Bryan Carbonnell - carbonnb at sympatico.ca Don't take life too seriously. You won't get out alive. From jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com Sat Mar 20 21:06:22 2004 From: jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com (John W. Colby) Date: Sat, 20 Mar 2004 22:06:22 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Framework Discussion - Just a teaser Message-ID: The whole point of a framework is to allow the developer to add on things to the functionality of a class or set of classes that may be useful to him or his clients. When I added dbl-click open form functionality the client requested a visual clue for that functionality, i.e. something that would tell their users that a specific combo had this functionality. One way to do this is to change the backcolor, forecolor, font etc of either the combo or the label for the combo. In order to get at the label I needed to know which label belonged to the combo. Notice that no controls have a "label" property with a pointer to the label, but what every control has is a controls collection. It happens that the label is one of (or the only) control in that collection. Thus with the following code I could discover which label "belonged to" the combo or other control: '.Comments : '.Parameters: '.Sets : '.Returns : '.Created by: John W. Colby '.Created : 6/17/02 11:22:19 AM ' 'Finds the label that "belongs to" any given control. ' Function CtlLbl(ctlFindLbl As Control) As Label On Error GoTo Err_CtlLbl Dim ctl As Control For Each ctl In ctlFindLbl.Controls If ctl.ControlType = acLabel Then Set CtlLbl = ctl End If Next ctl Exit_CtlLbl: Exit Function Err_CtlLbl: Select Case Err Case 0 '.insert Errors you wish to ignore here Resume Next Case Else '.All other errors will trap Beep MsgBox Err.Description, , "Error in Function Utils.CtlLbl" Resume Exit_CtlLbl End Select Resume 0 '.FOR TROUBLESHOOTING End Function Having the ability to find the label, I added a label control into each control class' header: ' Private mlbl As Label 'The label associated with this control ' And in the class' Init() a call to this function: Function Init(ByRef robjParent As Object, lfrm As Form, lcbo As ComboBox) 'Pass in a pointer to a specific control Set mcbo = lcbo 'Save that pointer to a private variable here in the class Set mlbl = CtlLbl(mcbo) 'Find the combo's label if any end function Now that I have a pointer to the label I can manipulate it easily and quickly in any manner I wish. Thus in the combo class function that programs NotInListData, if the lblnUseDblClick parameter is passed in I set the backcolor and backstyle properties so that it changes color: Function NotInListData(Optional strTbl As String = "", _ Optional strFld As String = "", _ Optional strForm As String = "", _ Optional lblnUseDblClick As Variant, _ Optional lblnUseNotInList As Variant) If Not IsEmpty(lblnUseDblClick) Then mblnUseDblClick = lblnUseDblClick If mblnUseDblClick Then mlbl.BackColor = 16744448 mlbl.BackStyle = 1 End If End If end function Understand that this is DEMO code. Hardcoding "magic numbers" as the 16744448 back color would be known is strictly a no-no. First of all, if nothing else you would always specify a named constant so that it is crystal clear what the number represents (blue) and also allow modifications as needed. In my framework I use a SysVar (which we will be getting into next) to set the label back color for dblClick, and we will replace this code with SysVar driven code in the next iteration. Using a SysVar, if the SysVar is zero then don't perform a backcolor change, else set the backcolor to the color specified. The default for the framework is set to 0 (don't do a backcolor change) but in the FE the FESysVar table can override that default and turn on backcolor changes for the dblClick combos FOR THAT APPLICATION. This is precisely where a framework begins to shine. Can this be done without a Framework? Of course it can. You can do the same things in a simple library, or even just hardcoding this stuff in forms somewhere (YUK). But with a Framework the behavior is there throughout the application, can be turned on/off with a simple switch, and can even be overridden for specific instances, wither user preferences, client preferences, form by form etc. Handy stuff. To see this code in action download the demo from my site and open the frmPeopleV4. Notice that the HairColor, EyeColor and City combos have a blue label. If you double click on them a form opens to allow adding data to the list. Notice that the other combos do not have double-click enabled and their labels do not have a blue back color. I am not advocating this specific behavior, please don't harass me with how silly it is. I am simply demonstrating that with a framework this kind of functionality can be programmed one time and used forever. It will be available for any combo anywhere throughout the application, it simply has to be enabled by whatever mechanism causes the behavior to appear. In this case it has to have a parameter set true (lblnUseNotInList) AND (in the future) it has to have a SysVar set that "switches on" the behavior. John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com From jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com Sat Mar 20 21:35:34 2004 From: jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com (John W. Colby) Date: Sat, 20 Mar 2004 22:35:34 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Framework Discussion - Disconnected labels Message-ID: BTW it is possible to add controls to a control's control collection. Thus you can "TELL" a control in a continuous form that a label in the form's header belongs to it. I add a function to the class which assigns a label out on the form to that control: ' 'Connects a label to a combo - used for continuous forms where the label is in the header etc. ' Function ConnectLabel(llbl As Label) On Error GoTo Err_ConnectLabel Set mlbl = llbl Exit_ConnectLabel: Exit Function Err_ConnectLabel: MsgBox Err.Description, , "Error in Function dclsCtlTextBox.ConnectLabel" Resume Exit_ConnectLabel Resume 0 '.FOR TROUBLESHOOTING End Function Then, strictly for demo purposes I set and reset the label's backcolor in the text boxes OnEnter and OnExit: ' 'These are the event stubs for the control's OnEnter and OnExit events ' Private Sub mtxt_Enter() mlngBackColorOrig = mtxt.BackColor 'When we enter the text box, save the original back color mtxt.BackColor = mclngBackColor 'Set the back color to our favorite color mlbl.BackColor = 16744448 mlbl.BackStyle = 1 End Sub Private Sub mtxt_Exit(Cancel As Integer) mtxt.BackColor = mlngBackColorOrig 'When we exit the control, set the back color back to the original color mlbl.BackStyle = 0 End Sub In the form's Open event, after initializing the framework I call this method and pass in a lable: Public fdclsFrm As dclsFrm Private Sub Form_Open(Cancel As Integer) Set fdclsFrm = New dclsFrm fdclsFrm.Init Me, Me With fdclsFrm.colClasses .item("txtCode").ConnectLabel lblCode .item("txtName").ConnectLabel lblName End With End Sub To see this functionality open the lfrmState and tab through the two columns. Again, this isn't particularly useful in this instance but it might be a helpful indicator of cursor movement or state of a control and again demonstrates that a disconnected label can be added to a control's control class. John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com From jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com Sun Mar 21 04:54:41 2004 From: jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com (John W. Colby) Date: Sun, 21 Mar 2004 05:54:41 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Framework Discussion - Disconnected labels In-Reply-To: Message-ID: >BTW it is possible to add controls to a control's control collection. Never write at 10:30 pm. As far as I have found, it is NOT possible to add controls directly to the control's control collection, however we can emulate that capability with our class which is what I am doing in this email. JWC -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of John W. Colby Sent: Saturday, March 20, 2004 10:36 PM To: AccessD Subject: [AccessD] Framework Discussion - Disconnected labels BTW it is possible to add controls to a control's control collection. Thus you can "TELL" a control in a continuous form that a label in the form's header belongs to it. I add a function to the class which assigns a label out on the form to that control: ' 'Connects a label to a combo - used for continuous forms where the label is in the header etc. ' Function ConnectLabel(llbl As Label) On Error GoTo Err_ConnectLabel Set mlbl = llbl Exit_ConnectLabel: Exit Function Err_ConnectLabel: MsgBox Err.Description, , "Error in Function dclsCtlTextBox.ConnectLabel" Resume Exit_ConnectLabel Resume 0 '.FOR TROUBLESHOOTING End Function Then, strictly for demo purposes I set and reset the label's backcolor in the text boxes OnEnter and OnExit: ' 'These are the event stubs for the control's OnEnter and OnExit events ' Private Sub mtxt_Enter() mlngBackColorOrig = mtxt.BackColor 'When we enter the text box, save the original back color mtxt.BackColor = mclngBackColor 'Set the back color to our favorite color mlbl.BackColor = 16744448 mlbl.BackStyle = 1 End Sub Private Sub mtxt_Exit(Cancel As Integer) mtxt.BackColor = mlngBackColorOrig 'When we exit the control, set the back color back to the original color mlbl.BackStyle = 0 End Sub In the form's Open event, after initializing the framework I call this method and pass in a lable: Public fdclsFrm As dclsFrm Private Sub Form_Open(Cancel As Integer) Set fdclsFrm = New dclsFrm fdclsFrm.Init Me, Me With fdclsFrm.colClasses .item("txtCode").ConnectLabel lblCode .item("txtName").ConnectLabel lblName End With End Sub To see this functionality open the lfrmState and tab through the two columns. Again, this isn't particularly useful in this instance but it might be a helpful indicator of cursor movement or state of a control and again demonstrates that a disconnected label can be added to a control's control class. John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From Subscriptions at servicexp.com Sun Mar 21 09:22:00 2004 From: Subscriptions at servicexp.com (Robert Gracie) Date: Sun, 21 Mar 2004 10:22:00 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Framework Discussion - Disconnected labels In-Reply-To: Message-ID: John, Your demo has some problems.. The recordset for the "frmPeopleV4" form doesn't include displayed fields. And the class "dclsCtlTextBox" includes Reference to the label "mlbl" variable in the exit and enter events that are not being Initialized (set). I presumed that these references are in error. I Commented them out, fix the recordset and all seems to work like a charm..... Robert Gracie www.servicexp.com -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of John W. Colby Sent: Saturday, March 20, 2004 10:36 PM To: AccessD Subject: [AccessD] Framework Discussion - Disconnected labels BTW it is possible to add controls to a control's control collection. Thus you can "TELL" a control in a continuous form that a label in the form's header belongs to it. I add a function to the class which assigns a label out on the form to that control: ' 'Connects a label to a combo - used for continuous forms where the label is in the header etc. ' Function ConnectLabel(llbl As Label) On Error GoTo Err_ConnectLabel Set mlbl = llbl Exit_ConnectLabel: Exit Function Err_ConnectLabel: MsgBox Err.Description, , "Error in Function dclsCtlTextBox.ConnectLabel" Resume Exit_ConnectLabel Resume 0 '.FOR TROUBLESHOOTING End Function Then, strictly for demo purposes I set and reset the label's backcolor in the text boxes OnEnter and OnExit: ' 'These are the event stubs for the control's OnEnter and OnExit events ' Private Sub mtxt_Enter() mlngBackColorOrig = mtxt.BackColor 'When we enter the text box, save the original back color mtxt.BackColor = mclngBackColor 'Set the back color to our favorite color mlbl.BackColor = 16744448 mlbl.BackStyle = 1 End Sub Private Sub mtxt_Exit(Cancel As Integer) mtxt.BackColor = mlngBackColorOrig 'When we exit the control, set the back color back to the original color mlbl.BackStyle = 0 End Sub In the form's Open event, after initializing the framework I call this method and pass in a lable: Public fdclsFrm As dclsFrm Private Sub Form_Open(Cancel As Integer) Set fdclsFrm = New dclsFrm fdclsFrm.Init Me, Me With fdclsFrm.colClasses .item("txtCode").ConnectLabel lblCode .item("txtName").ConnectLabel lblName End With End Sub To see this functionality open the lfrmState and tab through the two columns. Again, this isn't particularly useful in this instance but it might be a helpful indicator of cursor movement or state of a control and again demonstrates that a disconnected label can be added to a control's control class. John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com Sun Mar 21 11:38:31 2004 From: jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com (John W. Colby) Date: Sun, 21 Mar 2004 12:38:31 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Framework Discussion - Disconnected labels In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Sorry, I did some stuff quick and dirty to demo the disconnected labels that affected the other form. >The recordset for the "frmPeopleV4" form doesn't include displayed fields. This one I don't understand. >And the class "dclsCtlTextBox" includes Reference to the label "mlbl" variable in the exit and enter events that are not being Initialized (set). This was to demo the disconnected label. I set an On Error Resume Next in front if that code to handle where there is on label. This stuff will come back out for V5, it was just a demo of what is possible. John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Robert Gracie Sent: Sunday, March 21, 2004 10:22 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] Framework Discussion - Disconnected labels John, Your demo has some problems.. The recordset for the "frmPeopleV4" form doesn't include displayed fields. And the class "dclsCtlTextBox" includes Reference to the label "mlbl" variable in the exit and enter events that are not being Initialized (set). I presumed that these references are in error. I Commented them out, fix the recordset and all seems to work like a charm..... Robert Gracie www.servicexp.com -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of John W. Colby Sent: Saturday, March 20, 2004 10:36 PM To: AccessD Subject: [AccessD] Framework Discussion - Disconnected labels BTW it is possible to add controls to a control's control collection. Thus you can "TELL" a control in a continuous form that a label in the form's header belongs to it. I add a function to the class which assigns a label out on the form to that control: ' 'Connects a label to a combo - used for continuous forms where the label is in the header etc. ' Function ConnectLabel(llbl As Label) On Error GoTo Err_ConnectLabel Set mlbl = llbl Exit_ConnectLabel: Exit Function Err_ConnectLabel: MsgBox Err.Description, , "Error in Function dclsCtlTextBox.ConnectLabel" Resume Exit_ConnectLabel Resume 0 '.FOR TROUBLESHOOTING End Function Then, strictly for demo purposes I set and reset the label's backcolor in the text boxes OnEnter and OnExit: ' 'These are the event stubs for the control's OnEnter and OnExit events ' Private Sub mtxt_Enter() mlngBackColorOrig = mtxt.BackColor 'When we enter the text box, save the original back color mtxt.BackColor = mclngBackColor 'Set the back color to our favorite color mlbl.BackColor = 16744448 mlbl.BackStyle = 1 End Sub Private Sub mtxt_Exit(Cancel As Integer) mtxt.BackColor = mlngBackColorOrig 'When we exit the control, set the back color back to the original color mlbl.BackStyle = 0 End Sub In the form's Open event, after initializing the framework I call this method and pass in a lable: Public fdclsFrm As dclsFrm Private Sub Form_Open(Cancel As Integer) Set fdclsFrm = New dclsFrm fdclsFrm.Init Me, Me With fdclsFrm.colClasses .item("txtCode").ConnectLabel lblCode .item("txtName").ConnectLabel lblName End With End Sub To see this functionality open the lfrmState and tab through the two columns. Again, this isn't particularly useful in this instance but it might be a helpful indicator of cursor movement or state of a control and again demonstrates that a disconnected label can be added to a control's control class. John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From Subscriptions at servicexp.com Sun Mar 21 12:01:58 2004 From: Subscriptions at servicexp.com (Robert Gracie) Date: Sun, 21 Mar 2004 13:01:58 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Framework Discussion - Disconnected labels In-Reply-To: Message-ID: >The recordset for the "frmPeopleV4" form doesn't include displayed fields. >This one I don't understand. The SQL behind the form did not include all of fields referenced on the form so and when you selected a company name, you would get ?NAME error in the fields. >And the class "dclsCtlTextBox" includes Reference to the label "mlbl" variable in the exit and enter events that are not being Initialized (set). >This was to demo the disconnected label. I set an On Error Resume Next in >front if that code to handle where there is on label. Not in the version I downloaded. any movement in any field would produce a Object not set error >This stuff will come back out for V5, it was just a demo of what is >possible. Real cool stuff!!! John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Robert Gracie Sent: Sunday, March 21, 2004 10:22 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] Framework Discussion - Disconnected labels John, Your demo has some problems.. The recordset for the "frmPeopleV4" form doesn't include displayed fields. And the class "dclsCtlTextBox" includes Reference to the label "mlbl" variable in the exit and enter events that are not being Initialized (set). I presumed that these references are in error. I Commented them out, fix the recordset and all seems to work like a charm..... Robert Gracie www.servicexp.com -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of John W. Colby Sent: Saturday, March 20, 2004 10:36 PM To: AccessD Subject: [AccessD] Framework Discussion - Disconnected labels BTW it is possible to add controls to a control's control collection. Thus you can "TELL" a control in a continuous form that a label in the form's header belongs to it. I add a function to the class which assigns a label out on the form to that control: ' 'Connects a label to a combo - used for continuous forms where the label is in the header etc. ' Function ConnectLabel(llbl As Label) On Error GoTo Err_ConnectLabel Set mlbl = llbl Exit_ConnectLabel: Exit Function Err_ConnectLabel: MsgBox Err.Description, , "Error in Function dclsCtlTextBox.ConnectLabel" Resume Exit_ConnectLabel Resume 0 '.FOR TROUBLESHOOTING End Function Then, strictly for demo purposes I set and reset the label's backcolor in the text boxes OnEnter and OnExit: ' 'These are the event stubs for the control's OnEnter and OnExit events ' Private Sub mtxt_Enter() mlngBackColorOrig = mtxt.BackColor 'When we enter the text box, save the original back color mtxt.BackColor = mclngBackColor 'Set the back color to our favorite color mlbl.BackColor = 16744448 mlbl.BackStyle = 1 End Sub Private Sub mtxt_Exit(Cancel As Integer) mtxt.BackColor = mlngBackColorOrig 'When we exit the control, set the back color back to the original color mlbl.BackStyle = 0 End Sub In the form's Open event, after initializing the framework I call this method and pass in a lable: Public fdclsFrm As dclsFrm Private Sub Form_Open(Cancel As Integer) Set fdclsFrm = New dclsFrm fdclsFrm.Init Me, Me With fdclsFrm.colClasses .item("txtCode").ConnectLabel lblCode .item("txtName").ConnectLabel lblName End With End Sub To see this functionality open the lfrmState and tab through the two columns. Again, this isn't particularly useful in this instance but it might be a helpful indicator of cursor movement or state of a control and again demonstrates that a disconnected label can be added to a control's control class. John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com Sun Mar 21 12:47:11 2004 From: jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com (John W. Colby) Date: Sun, 21 Mar 2004 13:47:11 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Framework Discussion - Disconnected labels In-Reply-To: Message-ID: > Not in the version I downloaded. any movement in any field would produce a Try it again, I just fixed the problem(s?) and uploaded it. John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Robert Gracie Sent: Sunday, March 21, 2004 1:02 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] Framework Discussion - Disconnected labels >The recordset for the "frmPeopleV4" form doesn't include displayed fields. >This one I don't understand. The SQL behind the form did not include all of fields referenced on the form so and when you selected a company name, you would get ?NAME error in the fields. >And the class "dclsCtlTextBox" includes Reference to the label "mlbl" variable in the exit and enter events that are not being Initialized (set). >This was to demo the disconnected label. I set an On Error Resume Next in >front if that code to handle where there is on label. Not in the version I downloaded. any movement in any field would produce a Object not set error >This stuff will come back out for V5, it was just a demo of what is >possible. Real cool stuff!!! John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Robert Gracie Sent: Sunday, March 21, 2004 10:22 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] Framework Discussion - Disconnected labels John, Your demo has some problems.. The recordset for the "frmPeopleV4" form doesn't include displayed fields. And the class "dclsCtlTextBox" includes Reference to the label "mlbl" variable in the exit and enter events that are not being Initialized (set). I presumed that these references are in error. I Commented them out, fix the recordset and all seems to work like a charm..... Robert Gracie www.servicexp.com -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of John W. Colby Sent: Saturday, March 20, 2004 10:36 PM To: AccessD Subject: [AccessD] Framework Discussion - Disconnected labels BTW it is possible to add controls to a control's control collection. Thus you can "TELL" a control in a continuous form that a label in the form's header belongs to it. I add a function to the class which assigns a label out on the form to that control: ' 'Connects a label to a combo - used for continuous forms where the label is in the header etc. ' Function ConnectLabel(llbl As Label) On Error GoTo Err_ConnectLabel Set mlbl = llbl Exit_ConnectLabel: Exit Function Err_ConnectLabel: MsgBox Err.Description, , "Error in Function dclsCtlTextBox.ConnectLabel" Resume Exit_ConnectLabel Resume 0 '.FOR TROUBLESHOOTING End Function Then, strictly for demo purposes I set and reset the label's backcolor in the text boxes OnEnter and OnExit: ' 'These are the event stubs for the control's OnEnter and OnExit events ' Private Sub mtxt_Enter() mlngBackColorOrig = mtxt.BackColor 'When we enter the text box, save the original back color mtxt.BackColor = mclngBackColor 'Set the back color to our favorite color mlbl.BackColor = 16744448 mlbl.BackStyle = 1 End Sub Private Sub mtxt_Exit(Cancel As Integer) mtxt.BackColor = mlngBackColorOrig 'When we exit the control, set the back color back to the original color mlbl.BackStyle = 0 End Sub In the form's Open event, after initializing the framework I call this method and pass in a lable: Public fdclsFrm As dclsFrm Private Sub Form_Open(Cancel As Integer) Set fdclsFrm = New dclsFrm fdclsFrm.Init Me, Me With fdclsFrm.colClasses .item("txtCode").ConnectLabel lblCode .item("txtName").ConnectLabel lblName End With End Sub To see this functionality open the lfrmState and tab through the two columns. Again, this isn't particularly useful in this instance but it might be a helpful indicator of cursor movement or state of a control and again demonstrates that a disconnected label can be added to a control's control class. John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com Sun Mar 21 13:27:06 2004 From: jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com (John W. Colby) Date: Sun, 21 Mar 2004 14:27:06 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Storing custom datatypes in collections Message-ID: Has anyone ever succeeded in storing a custom data type in a collection? I get an error message: "Compile error Only user defined types defined in public object modules can be coerced to or from a variant or passed to late bound functions." This is the code I'm using: Public Type TblDat strCnn As adodb.Connection strTblName As String End Type Public colTest As Collection Public Function SVTblDat(lstrCnn As adodb.Connection, lstrTblName As String) As TblDat Dim lTblDat As TblDat Set lTblDat.strCnn = lstrCnn lTblDat.strTblName = lstrTblName SVTblDat = lTblDat End Function Public Function TestCollection() Set colTest = New Collection colTest.Add SVTblDat(CurrentProject.Connection, "1234") End Function Calling TestCollection and the error highlights SVTblDat( Anyone? John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com From deanellis at iprimus.com.au Sun Mar 21 14:31:18 2004 From: deanellis at iprimus.com.au (Dean Ellis) Date: Mon, 22 Mar 2004 07:01:18 +1030 (Cen. Australia Daylight Time) Subject: [AccessD] Detecting CD Drive Constantly Message-ID: <405DFB96.000003.59601@jedel> Hi All, I'm having some trouble with a database that is required to detect the CD Drive of the Computer it is running from. The code that is in there works for Desktop computers, but not Laptops., and even then, this is not garuntee Here is the code on the module: Public Function SaveAndGetCDROMDriveLetter() As String Dim DriveChar As Byte Dim tmpDrive As String Dim CDDRiveLetter As String SaveAndGetCDROMDriveLetter = "Unknown" On Error GoTo ErrorHandler For DriveChar = 0 To 25 tmpDrive = Chr(65 + DriveChar) & ":\" If (GetDriveType(tmpDrive) = DRIVE_CDROM) Then SaveAndGetCDROMDriveLetter = tmpDrive Exit For End If Next DriveChar CDDRiveLetter = GetSetting("IAQ_JLW2", "Preferences", "CDDRiveLetter", "") If IsNull(CDDRiveLetter) Or CDDRiveLetter = "" Then 'No Cd Drive ltter set so set one SaveSetting "IAQ_JLW2", "Preferences", "CDDriveLetter", SaveAndGetCDROMDriveLetter() 'Me!ctlCDRomDriveLetter = GetSetting("IAQ_JLW2", "Preferences", CDDRiveLetter", "") 'Me!ctlCDRomDriveLetter.Requery Else 'There is a Cd Drive Ltter and it is... 'Me!ctlCDRomDriveLetter = GetSetting("IAQ_JLW2", "Preferences", CDDRiveLetter", "") End If ErrorHandler: Exit Function End Function -------------------------------------------------------------------- The code in one of the forms, bearing in mind that this is used in any form that requires a fie path to a file: Private Sub PadPath() Dim CDDrive, MoviePath, StillPath As String Dim x, y As String 'On Error Resume Next 'CDDrive = DLookup("[CDRomName]", "tblDefaults") & "\" CDDrive = GetSetting("IAQ_JLW2", "Preferences", "CDDRiveLetter", "") MoviePath = DLookup("[DefaultMoviePath]", "tblDefaults") 'StillPath = DLookup("[DefaultStillPath]", "tblDefaults") x = CDDrive & MoviePath 'y = CDDrive & StillPath Me!ctlPath = x & ctlPath End Sub ----------------------------------------------------------------------- I hope this gives you some idea as to what I am trying to do. I have also trying manually setting the drive letter. The problem with this is the CD can only be as Read only so the Records wont change. I am trying to 'dim' the drive selection manually, but it won't read the public string declaration. Any help would be great Cheers Dean From stuart at lexacorp.com.pg Sun Mar 21 15:52:30 2004 From: stuart at lexacorp.com.pg (Stuart McLachlan) Date: Mon, 22 Mar 2004 07:52:30 +1000 Subject: [AccessD] Detecting CD Drive Constantly In-Reply-To: <405DFB96.000003.59601@jedel> Message-ID: <405E9B3E.32222.17E762@localhost> On 22 Mar 2004 at 7:01, Dean Ellis wrote: > Hi All, > > I'm having some trouble with a database that is required to detect the CD > Drive of the Computer it is running from. The code that is in there works > for Desktop computers, but not Laptops., and even then, this is not garuntee > > > Here is the code on the module: > > Public Function SaveAndGetCDROMDriveLetter() As String > > Dim DriveChar As Byte > Dim tmpDrive As String > Dim CDDRiveLetter As String > > SaveAndGetCDROMDriveLetter = "Unknown" > > On Error GoTo ErrorHandler > > For DriveChar = 0 To 25 > tmpDrive = Chr(65 + DriveChar) & ":\" > If (GetDriveType(tmpDrive) = DRIVE_CDROM) Then > SaveAndGetCDROMDriveLetter = tmpDrive > Exit For One problem with that is many macines today have DVD Drives. A DVD/CD returns DRIVE_FIXED from GetDriveType() Take a look at http://www.vb2themax.com/NLItem.asp?PageID=NewsletterBank&ID=1040 for code to determine all drive info. -- Lexacorp Ltd http://www.lexacorp.com.pg Information Technology Consultancy, Software Development,System Support. From bchacc at san.rr.com Sun Mar 21 16:07:25 2004 From: bchacc at san.rr.com (Rocky Smolin - Beach Access Software) Date: Sun, 21 Mar 2004 14:07:25 -0800 Subject: [AccessD] Results of Elections For the Board of Direcotrs - Database Advisors, Inc. Message-ID: <02d801c40f90$e4c835d0$6601a8c0@HAL9002> Dear List: It gives me great pleasure to announce the results of the recent election for the Board of Directors of Database Advisors, Inc., a Board which consists of nine members. Aside from being a required corporate formality, our Board of Directors is responsible for among other things, providing strategic direction for our organization, addressing and solving problems related to maintaining the various mail lists which are supported by Database Advisors, Inc., providing support and coordination for various projects, maintaining the web site, and monitoring and refereeing the content of the lists. The Director position is unpaid and voluntary. And so all of us who benefit from having this resource available to us owe these people our thanks and gratitude. As is customary in a corporation, only shareholders of Database Advisors are allowed to vote. They receive one vote for each share of stock they own. There are 30 shareholders whose ownership ranges from 1 share to 12 shares. Votes were received from 14 of the shareholders. The following persons will be serving as Directors of Database Advisors, Inc. for the coming year: John Bartow John Colby Donna Cook Susan Harkins Jim Lawrence Martin Reid Lembit Soobik Keith Williamson Drew Wutka Congratulations and thank you to all of you. On a personal note I would like to observe for those that might be new to the list or unaware of its history, that Database Advisors Inc. is what might be called a 'virtual corporation'. It was formed when the previous host Memphis Technologies, could no longer host the list. The list went down rather suddenly leaving many people around the world who depended heavily on this resource without the valuable assistance of its members. Several of the list members most of whom had never met and have still never met in person, and live in widely scattered parts of the world, organized and formed this corporation conducting management, directors and shareholders meetings exclusively in cyberspace. Those of you who participate in this list, therefore, are participating in a unique organization - one which would have been impossible as little as ten or fifteen years ago. Please note that, although expenses are not great, a certain amount of cash is required for things like paying the ISP who hosts the list. All other services, such as web site maintenance and the searchable archive are provided by list members as a service to the list. Know that Database Advisors gratefully accepts cash contributions from its list members to help defray these costs. Sincerely, Rocky Smolin Chair, Elections Committee Beach Access Software http://www.e-z-mrp.com From stuart at lexacorp.com.pg Sun Mar 21 16:21:31 2004 From: stuart at lexacorp.com.pg (Stuart McLachlan) Date: Mon, 22 Mar 2004 08:21:31 +1000 Subject: [AccessD] Storing custom datatypes in collections In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <405EA20B.4163.32783A@localhost> On 21 Mar 2004 at 14:27, John W. Colby wrote: > Has anyone ever succeeded in storing a custom data type in a collection? I > get an error message: > > "Compile error > > Only user defined types defined in public object modules can be coerced to > or from a variant or passed to late bound functions." > > This is the code I'm using: > > Public Type TblDat > strCnn As adodb.Connection > strTblName As String > End Type > > Public colTest As Collection > > Public Function SVTblDat(lstrCnn As adodb.Connection, lstrTblName As String) > As TblDat > Dim lTblDat As TblDat > Set lTblDat.strCnn = lstrCnn > lTblDat.strTblName = lstrTblName > SVTblDat = lTblDat > End Function > > Public Function TestCollection() > Set colTest = New Collection > colTest.Add SVTblDat(CurrentProject.Connection, "1234") > End Function > > Calling TestCollection and the error highlights SVTblDat( > > Anyone? > Same thing happens in VB. It's a known deficiency iin VB/VBA. Conventional wisdom is to use a class instead of a UDT. Try googling on "public object module" :-( -- Lexacorp Ltd http://www.lexacorp.com.pg Information Technology Consultancy, Software Development,System Support. From martyconnelly at shaw.ca Sun Mar 21 16:31:55 2004 From: martyconnelly at shaw.ca (MartyConnelly) Date: Sun, 21 Mar 2004 14:31:55 -0800 Subject: [AccessD] Detecting CD Drive Constantly References: <405DFB96.000003.59601@jedel> Message-ID: <405E17DB.4040701@shaw.ca> Try this method Enumerating Local and Network Drives It works for me on a laptop uses GetLogicalDriveStrings rather than looping through GetDriveType http://www.mvps.org/access/api/api0003.htm Dean Ellis wrote: >Hi All, > > > >I'm having some trouble with a database that is required to detect the CD >Drive of the Computer it is running from. The code that is in there works >for Desktop computers, but not Laptops., and even then, this is not garuntee > > > > >Here is the code on the module: > > > >Public Function SaveAndGetCDROMDriveLetter() As String > > > > Dim DriveChar As Byte > > Dim tmpDrive As String > > Dim CDDRiveLetter As String > > > >SaveAndGetCDROMDriveLetter = "Unknown" > > > > On Error GoTo ErrorHandler > > > > For DriveChar = 0 To 25 > > tmpDrive = Chr(65 + DriveChar) & ":\" > > If (GetDriveType(tmpDrive) = DRIVE_CDROM) Then > > SaveAndGetCDROMDriveLetter = tmpDrive > > Exit For > > End If > > Next DriveChar > > > > > > CDDRiveLetter = GetSetting("IAQ_JLW2", "Preferences", "CDDRiveLetter", "") > > > > > > If IsNull(CDDRiveLetter) Or CDDRiveLetter = "" Then > > 'No Cd Drive ltter set so set one > > SaveSetting "IAQ_JLW2", "Preferences", "CDDriveLetter", >SaveAndGetCDROMDriveLetter() > > 'Me!ctlCDRomDriveLetter = GetSetting("IAQ_JLW2", "Preferences", >CDDRiveLetter", "") > > 'Me!ctlCDRomDriveLetter.Requery > > Else > > 'There is a Cd Drive Ltter and it is... > > 'Me!ctlCDRomDriveLetter = GetSetting("IAQ_JLW2", "Preferences", >CDDRiveLetter", "") > > End If > > > > > >ErrorHandler: > > Exit Function > > > >End Function > > > >-------------------------------------------------------------------- > > > >The code in one of the forms, bearing in mind that this is used in any form >that requires a fie path to a file: > > > >Private Sub PadPath() > >Dim CDDrive, MoviePath, StillPath As String > >Dim x, y As String > >'On Error Resume Next > > > >'CDDrive = DLookup("[CDRomName]", "tblDefaults") & "\" > >CDDrive = GetSetting("IAQ_JLW2", "Preferences", "CDDRiveLetter", "") > >MoviePath = DLookup("[DefaultMoviePath]", "tblDefaults") > >'StillPath = DLookup("[DefaultStillPath]", "tblDefaults") > > > >x = CDDrive & MoviePath > >'y = CDDrive & StillPath > > > >Me!ctlPath = x & ctlPath > >End Sub > > > >----------------------------------------------------------------------- > > > >I hope this gives you some idea as to what I am trying to do. I have also >trying manually setting the drive letter. The problem with this is the CD >can only be as Read only so the Records wont change. I am trying to 'dim' >the drive selection manually, but it won't read the public string >declaration. > > > > > >Any help would be great > > > >Cheers > > > >Dean > > -- Marty Connelly Victoria, B.C. Canada From jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com Sun Mar 21 16:42:01 2004 From: jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com (John W. Colby) Date: Sun, 21 Mar 2004 17:42:01 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Storing custom datatypes in collections In-Reply-To: <405EA20B.4163.32783A@localhost> Message-ID: Yea, I'm in the process of building a class right now. :( John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Stuart McLachlan Sent: Sunday, March 21, 2004 5:22 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problemsolving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Storing custom datatypes in collections On 21 Mar 2004 at 14:27, John W. Colby wrote: > Has anyone ever succeeded in storing a custom data type in a collection? I > get an error message: > > "Compile error > > Only user defined types defined in public object modules can be coerced to > or from a variant or passed to late bound functions." > > This is the code I'm using: > > Public Type TblDat > strCnn As adodb.Connection > strTblName As String > End Type > > Public colTest As Collection > > Public Function SVTblDat(lstrCnn As adodb.Connection, lstrTblName As String) > As TblDat > Dim lTblDat As TblDat > Set lTblDat.strCnn = lstrCnn > lTblDat.strTblName = lstrTblName > SVTblDat = lTblDat > End Function > > Public Function TestCollection() > Set colTest = New Collection > colTest.Add SVTblDat(CurrentProject.Connection, "1234") > End Function > > Calling TestCollection and the error highlights SVTblDat( > > Anyone? > Same thing happens in VB. It's a known deficiency iin VB/VBA. Conventional wisdom is to use a class instead of a UDT. Try googling on "public object module" :-( -- Lexacorp Ltd http://www.lexacorp.com.pg Information Technology Consultancy, Software Development,System Support. -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com Sun Mar 21 22:36:59 2004 From: jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com (John W. Colby) Date: Sun, 21 Mar 2004 23:36:59 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Framework Discussion - SysVars Message-ID: The following is a discussion of Sysvars. The demo file can be downloaded from my site. I have begun deleting older MDBs out of the zip file to slim it back down since the original ZIPs are out there for the demos for the earlier documents. There is a form in the V5 mdb for demoing the SysVar system in that MDB. Framework Discussion ? System Variables One of the structures that many developers need is one that I call System Variables or SysVars for short. These are things like the client?s company name, address, phone, fax, tax ID and so forth. Many developers handle this kind of data by creating a one record table, and adding a new field to the table every time they find a new System Variable that they need to use. I also require a system like this but decided that the process of adding fields to a record was just too clumsy and time consuming for my purposes, so I decided to use a table where each record contains a System Variable. I prefix all of my SysVar tables (and there may be several) with usys so that they can be treated as Access system objects and the table won?t be visible if that flag is cleared (Tools / Options / View / System Objects check box). Thus my tables would be named usystblSysVar, usystblFWSysVar, usystblAppSysVar etc. For my purposes I decided to use an autonumber PK, a string SysVar Name, a string SysVar value and a memo SysVar memo field for explanations of purpose, thus: SV_ID Autonumber SV_VarName Text - 50 SV_VarValue Text ? 50 SV_Memo Memo Once you start using System Variables it becomes apparent that they are useful at several different levels in an application. The first level and immediately important to this discussion, is to control the Framework default behaviors. In other words, we can set up SysVars that the framework itself reads as it initializes to decide whether to load service classes at init(), whether to turn on or off combo dbl-click or NotInList processing by default, whether to use Just In Time (JIT) subforms by default etc. The next level is that SysVars are valuable for the same purpose in the Application itself for setting up the application program behaviors in a manner similar to that for the framework. Will the entire client company name / address / etc be displayed on the main menu or just the company name, or nothing? Will a splash screen display the developer?s information or just a pretty picture, or the client?s logo. These kinds of operational decisions can be programmed by creating SysVars that are then referenced by the Application?s code to decide what to do in cases where several possible behaviors could be used. Another level is the actual Application data such as the examples in the first paragraphs of the client?s company name, address, Tax ID and so forth. Each of these uses target a different ?level? of the application but each are or may be equally valuable, thus the developer may need a SysVar table for the Framework control, the Application control and the Application data, an possibly even other such tables.. Having determined the table structure I wanted, I designed a set of classes to read the data out of the table(s) and hold the data itself in a collection keyed on the SysVar name. This allows the developer to call a method of a clsSysVars instance (the framework instance perhaps), pass in the name of the SysVar and get back the value of the SysVar. Classes and collections are extremely high speed, especially compared to trying to get that data out of the table each time, so we can realistically expect to use this to control our applications in real time. One thing to understand is that because the data is loaded out of the table into a collection in a class, changes to the SysVars will not be available to the SysVar users until the table(s) is reread. SysVars are not appropriate for ?flags? where changes need to be used immediately in controlling some operation, particularly if that usage will be in another workstation. The other thing to mention is that at least for the Framework, we need to be able to ?override? SysVars loaded earlier with values loaded later. For example we have a usystblFWSysVars in the framework library, and we also have a usystblFWSysVars in the FE. The ?default? behaviors of the framework are determined by the usystblFWSysVars in the framework. Whether or not the table even exists in the FE, we can set up the framework to act a certain way. Then, in the FE, we can decide that we would rather the default behavior be different. As an example, the framework by default does not use JIT subforms. The usystblFWSysVar has a Sysvar gUseJIT set to False. Thus if there is no override in the FE, as forms with tabs with subforms load, all of the subforms load automatically. However, the developer decides that for ApplicationX it would be useful to have JIT subforms turned on. By placing an identically named sysvar in the usystblFWSysVar in the FE, but with the JIT SysVar gUseJIT set True, the subforms now do not load until the tab that the subform is on is clicked. JIT is turned on in this FE ?by default?. In order to accomplish this, I need to have a method of initializing the clsSysVar with a specific SysVar table loaded (when the framework initializes), but then ?merge in? another table later (when the FE initializes). Further it is occasionally useful, particularly during development, to modify SysVars and have the table ?tree? reread so we also need to save the names of and the load order of all of the SysVar tables loaded by a class. Then if we need to, at any time we can reread all of the tables in the correct order to get the final SysVar values loaded into the class. Implementation In order to break this process down into functional units I designed three classes to implement SysVars. The first class is clsSysVars which is the service class itself. clsSysVars is instantiated once for each ?set? of SysVars, i.e. once for the framework SysVars, once for the Application control SysVars and once for the Application data SysVars (as needed). clsSysVars then immediately instantiates a single clsSysVarsTbl which is the class that knows how to read out the data from the SysVar table, and holds the connection and table name. If the SysVars are to be overridden as will probably happen using a usystblFWSysVars in the FE to override certain framework SysVars, then a second instance of clsSysVarsTbl will be instantiated with the connection and table name from the project. That second instance will be loaded as the application itself initializes. clsSysVarsTbl reads all of the SysVar records out of the SysVar table it is responsible for and builds a clsSysVar (singular) instance for each record in that SysVar table. To reiterate, clsSysVars (plural) loads an instance of clsSysVarsTbl for each SysVar table to be merged into its SysVars collection. clsSysVarsTbl stores the connection and table name used to read the data from the table and has the methods to read that table, instantiating clsSysVar (singular) for each record in the table. clsSysVars passes its colSysVars to clsSysVarsTbl so that that class can build instances of clsSysVar and store them in that collection. A method of clsSysVars is then called to read out any given SysVar. By the way, I timed the reading of SysVars using a shell function that calls a method of clsSysVars to read a single SysVar 100,000 times. Reading a SysVar 100,000 times took ~600 milliseconds, thus averaging .006 milliseconds to read a single SysVar. While this is not something that should be performed in a query reading a million records, it should be acceptable to use in program control. clsSysVar Starting at the bottom of the class chain, we will look at clsSysVar. clsSysVar holds all of the fields (data) of a single SysVar record from the table. In the header we have a private variable for each field in the SysVar table. Option Compare Database Option Explicit Private mstrName As String Private mvarValue As Variant Private mstrMemo As Variant Private mblnUserEditable As Boolean Private mblnAllowOverride As Boolean Since we have no objects to initialize or terminate we don?t use the built-in class events. The public function Init() passes in all of the data from one record of the table. All we do is store the data in the variables in the class header. Public Function Init(lstrVarName As Variant, lstrVarValue As Variant, _ Optional lstrMemo As Variant = "", _ Optional lblnUserEditable As Boolean = False, _ Optional lblnAllowOverride As Boolean = True) On Error GoTo Err_Init mstrName = lstrVarName mvarValue = lstrVarValue mstrMemo = lstrMemo mblnUserEditable = lblnUserEditable mblnAllowOverride = lblnAllowOverride Exit_Init: Exit Function Err_Init: MsgBox Err.Description, , "Error in Function clsSysVar.Init" Resume Exit_Init Resume 0 '.FOR TROUBLESHOOTING End Function We then have properties to allow us to read / write these variables in the header. It is unclear that we will ever need to write the values through the property let statements and it might be wise to delete all the property let statements to cause the values in the header to be read only. ' 'The name of the SysVar ' Property Let Name(strVarName As String) mstrName = strVarName End Property Property Get Name() As String Name = mstrName End Property ' 'The value of the SysVar ' Property Get Value() As Variant Value = mvarValue End Property Property Let Value(strValue As Variant) mvarValue = strValue End Property ' 'The memo of the SysVar ' Property Get Memo() As String Memo = mstrMemo End Property Property Let Memo(strMemo As String) mstrMemo = strMemo End Property ' 'Is this SysVar user editable? ' Property Let UserEditable(blnUserEditable As Boolean) mblnUserEditable = blnUserEditable End Property Property Get UserEditable() As Boolean UserEditable = mblnUserEditable End Property ' 'Allow Override of this SysVar? ' Property Get AllowOverride() As Boolean AllowOverride = mblnAllowOverride End Property Property Let AllowOverride(blnAllowOverride As Boolean) mblnAllowOverride = blnAllowOverride End Property That?s all there is to clsSysVar. Its function is to store the SysVar data in variables. clsSysVarsTbl This class is responsible for reading the data out of the usys tables holding the SysVar data. It has to save the connection and the table name since it might be called on to refresh the SysVars in its table. Option Compare Database Option Explicit Private mcnn As adodb.Connection 'The connection for the table Private mrst As adodb.Recordset 'The recordset object used Private mstrTblName As String 'The table name Private mcolSysVars As Collection 'The SysVars collection from the parent This class stores objects that need to be cleaned up so we use the Terminate event to trigger Term() as a failsafe cleanup method. Private Sub Class_Terminate() Term End Sub The Init() method passes in a connection, a table name and the SysVar collection. We store pointers to each of these objects in the header. We then call the MergSysVars method to read the data out of the tables and build the SysVar class instances. Public Function Init(lcnn As adodb.Connection, lstrTblName As String, lcolSysVars As Collection) On Error GoTo Err_Init Set mcnn = lcnn mstrTblName = lstrTblName Set mcolSysVars = lcolSysVars MergeSysVars Exit_Init: Exit Function Err_Init: MsgBox Err.Description, , "Error in Function clsSysVarsTbl.Init" Resume Exit_Init Resume 0 '.FOR TROUBLESHOOTING End Function We do have cleanup to perform so do it here. Public Function Term() On Error Resume Next Set mcnn = Nothing mrst.Close Set mrst = Nothing Set mcolSysVars = Nothing End Function The MergeSysVars method is where all the work is done. The record set is opened using the connection and table name passed in to init and stored in the class header. We then move through the record set building new clsSysVar class instances. Note that we first delete any class by the same SysVar name first, which is our definition of ?merge?. ' 'Merges all of the SysVars in a table into mcolSysVars ' 'A "merge" really means deleting the old value and replacing it with the new value. 'For this reason all we do is delete any existing SysVar class in the collection 'keyed on any names in this table and build a new one from scratch ' Public Function MergeSysVars() On Error GoTo Err_MergeSysVars Set mrst = New adodb.Recordset 'open the database and the recordset mrst.Open mstrTblName, mcnn 'create the collection to hold the sysvars With mrst While Not .EOF On Error Resume Next mcolSysVars.Remove !SV_VarName On Error GoTo Err_MergeSysVars NewSysVar .MoveNext Wend End With Exit_MergeSysVars: On Error Resume Next mrst.Close Set mrst = Nothing Exit Function Err_MergeSysVars: MsgBox Err.Description, , "Error in Function clsSysVarsTbl.MergeSysVars" Resume Exit_MergeSysVars Resume 0 '.FOR TROUBLESHOOTING End Function The NewSysVar method is private to the class and is a class factory that builds an instance of clsSysVar, storing the data from the current record in the class variables. It then stores that class instance in mcolSysVars, the collection of SysVar class instances that is originally created in the main class clsSysVars. ' 'Builds a new SysVar instance from a SysVar record ' Private Function NewSysVar() On Error GoTo Err_NewSysVar Dim lclsSysVar As clsSysVar Set lclsSysVar = New clsSysVar With mrst lclsSysVar.Init !SV_VarName, !SV_VarValue, !SV_Memo, !SV_UserEditable, !SV_AllowOverride mcolSysVars.Add lclsSysVar, !SV_VarName End With Exit_NewSysVar: On Error Resume Next Exit Function Err_NewSysVar: MsgBox Err.Description, , "Error in Function clsSysVarsTbl.NewSysVar" Resume Exit_NewSysVar Resume 0 '.FOR TROUBLESHOOTING End Function That?s all there is to clsSysVarsTbl. Its function is to read the data out of the table and into clsSysVar instances where the data is stored. clsSysVars This is the SysVar supervisor class, and is the Service Class actually used by the framework or application. clsSysVar has two collections in its header, one for the clsSysVar class instances (the data) and another for the clsSysVarsTbl class instances (the tables of data). Option Compare Database Option Explicit Private mcolSysVarsTbl As Collection Private mcolSysVars As Collection We have objects to be initialized (collections) so we use the class Initialize event to to the initialization of these classes. Private Sub Class_Initialize() On Error GoTo Err_Class_Initialize assDebugPrint "initialize " & mcstrModuleName, DebugPrint Set mcolChildren = New Collection Set mcolSysVarsTbl = New Collection Set mcolSysVars = New Collection Exit_Class_Initialize: Exit Sub Err_Class_Initialize: MsgBox Err.Description, , "Error in Sub clsTemplate.Class_Initialize" Resume Exit_Class_Initialize Resume 0 '.FOR TROUBLESHOOTING End Sub The Init() method is passed in a connection and table name. This data is not actually stored here but rather simply passed on to an instance of clsSysVarsTbl by calling the MergeSysVars method. Public Sub Init(ByRef robjParent As Object, lstrCnn As adodb.Connection, lstrTblName As String) On Error GoTo Err_Init Set mobjParent = robjParent 'colTblDat.Add SVTblDat(lstrCnn, lstrTblName) 'IF THE PARENT OBJECT HAS A CHILDREN COLLECTION, PUT MYSELF IN IT assDebugPrint "init " & mstrInstanceName, DebugPrint MergeSysVars lstrCnn, lstrTblName Exit_Init: Exit Sub Err_Init: MsgBox Err.Description, , "Error in Sub clsSysVars.Init" Resume Exit_Init Resume 0 '.FOR TROUBLESHOOTING End Sub Since we have objects to clean up we use the class? Terminate event as a failsafe cleanup, which simply calls our Term(). Private Sub Class_Terminate() On Error Resume Next assDebugPrint "Terminate " & mcstrModuleName, DebugPrint Term End Sub Term() does our cleanup for us. We build a private colEmpty () method which we use to empty out the two collections before we set the pointers to these collections to nothing. Public Sub Term() Static blnRan As Boolean 'The term may run more than once so If blnRan Then Exit Sub 'just exit if it already ran blnRan = True On Error Resume Next assDebugPrint "Term() " & mcstrModuleName, DebugPrint colEmpty mcolSysVarsTbl Set mcolSysVarsTbl = Nothing colEmpty mcolSysVars Set mcolSysVars = Nothing Set mobjParent = Nothing Set mcolChildren = Nothing End Sub We provide a couple of property get procedures to pass back pointers to the class collections in case we ever need them. Property Get colSysVars() As Collection Set colSysVars = mcolSysVars End Property Property Get colSysVarsTbl() As Collection Set colSysVarsTbl = mcolSysVarsTbl End Property We already mentioned colEmpty, which does nothing more than iterate the collection holding class instances, calling the Term() method of each object, then removing the pointer to the class from the collection. Since the collections (mcolSysVarsTbl and mcolSysVars) hold the only pointers to their respective class instances, when we remove the pointer form the collection, the class instance is removed from memory. ' 'Empties out a collection containing class instances ' Private Function colEmpty(col As Collection) On Error GoTo Err_colEmpty While col.Count > 0 On Error Resume Next col(1).Term On Error GoTo Err_colEmpty col.Remove 1 Wend Exit_colEmpty: Exit Function Err_colEmpty: MsgBox Err.Description, , "Error in Function clsSysVars.colEmpty" Resume Exit_colEmpty Resume 0 '.FOR TROUBLESHOOTING End Function The MergeSysVars method is a public method and class factory that allows us to create an instance of clsSysVarsTbl, initialize that instance with the passed in connection and table name, and finally save that instance in the mcolSysVarsTbl collection. ' 'THIS FUNCTION ALLOWS US TO MERGE ANOTHER SYSVAR TABLE INTO THE 'EXISTING (FRAMEWORK?) SYSVAR COLLECTION AT RUN TIME, IN EFFECT OVERRIDING 'ANY BUILT IN VARIABLE VALUES WITH ONES FROM THE APPLICATION. THIS ALLOWS 'THE APPLICATION TO SET UP THE FRAMEWORK TO OPERATE DIFFERENTLY THAN IT MIGHT 'BY DEFAULT. ' Function MergeSysVars(lcnn As adodb.Connection, lstrTbl As String) Dim lclsSysVarsTbl As clsSysVarsTbl Set lclsSysVarsTbl = New clsSysVarsTbl lclsSysVarsTbl.Init lcnn, lstrTbl, mcolSysVars MergeSysVars = True mcolSysVarsTbl.Add lclsSysVarsTbl, lstrTbl & lcnn.ConnectionString Exit_MergeSysVars: On Error Resume Next Exit Function Err_MergeSysVars: Select Case Err Case 0 '.insert Errors you wish to ignore here Resume Next Case Else '.All other errors will trap Beep MsgBox Err.Description, , "Error in Function clsSysVars.MergeSysVars" Resume Exit_MergeSysVars End Select Resume 0 '.FOR TROUBLESHOOTING End Function RefreshSysVars is a public method that allows the developer or the system to modify one or more SysVar in the table(s) and then cause a reread of all the tables used to build this SysVar set. It does nothing more that iterate mcolSysVarsTbl calling the MergeSysVars method of each clsSysVarsTbl instance in that collection. ' 'This function refreshes existing sysvars by reading all of the SysVars out of all 'the tables ' Public Function RefreshSysVars() On Error GoTo Err_RefreshSysVars Dim lclsSysVarsTbl As clsSysVarsTbl For Each lclsSysVarsTbl In mcolSysVarsTbl lclsSysVarsTbl.MergeSysVars Next lclsSysVarsTbl Exit_RefreshSysVars: Exit Function Err_RefreshSysVars: MsgBox Err.Description, , "Error in Function clsSysVars.RefreshSysVars" Resume Exit_RefreshSysVars Resume 0 '.FOR TROUBLESHOOTING End Function And finally, the SV method allows you to read a SysVar field out of a specific instance of clsSysVar (a specific SysVar). The default value read is the Value field but you can specify any of the other fields. ' 'This method is what actually returns a SysVar value from one of the fields 'The default value returned comes from the SV_VarValue field but you can 'specify any of the other fields, other than the SV_VarName which you must 'have to begin sith since it is the "key" for the collection, used to index 'into the collection. ' Function SV(strSVName As String, Optional strSVFld As String = "SV_VarValue") As Variant On Error GoTo Err_SV Select Case strSVFld Case "SV_VarValue" SV = mcolSysVars(strSVName).Value() Case "SV_Memo" SV = mcolSysVars(strSVName).Memo() Case "SV_UserEditable" SV = mcolSysVars(strSVName).UserEditable() Case "SV_AllowOverride" SV = mcolSysVars(strSVName).AllowOverride() Case Else End Select Exit_SV: Exit Function Err_SV: MsgBox Err.Description, , "Error in Function clsSysVars.SV" Resume Exit_SV Resume 0 '.FOR TROUBLESHOOTING End Function Summary The SysVar system is most logically broken down into three classes, one is the Service Class itself clsSysVars. This is the class that the developer interfaces with directly. This class then uses clsSysVarsTbl instances to read the data out of one or more SysVar tables, loading the data itself into clsSysVar instances which are saved in a collection directly in the Service Class. clsSysVars then has public wrapper methods that pass requests to refresh the SysVars and read SysVar values out of the clsSysVar class instances. Of course this could have been implemented differently; in fact my first SysVar system used a single class which ?did it all?. It was ugly however, and I think a three class ?system? implementing SysVars is an easier to understand way to implement it. Each of the three classes has its own job to do. ClsSysVars uses clsSysVarsTbl to read out the data into clsSysVar instances. clsSysVars manages the process, setting up and tearing down all the child classes, and wrapping requests for the child class methods to pass along the requests for data or services. SysVars will be used throughout the Framework to allow us to select from two or more possible behaviors. The table in the Framework will hold the default values to program default behaviors, but the table in the FE itself will be able to override the default values to change behaviors as needed in that specific FE or application. In the next article we will see SysVars used to do exactly that. John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com From bheid at appdevgrp.com Mon Mar 22 07:17:24 2004 From: bheid at appdevgrp.com (Bobby Heid) Date: Mon, 22 Mar 2004 08:17:24 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Weird VSS behavior. In-Reply-To: <916187228923D311A6FE00A0CC3FAA307D9225@ADGSERVER> Message-ID: <916187228923D311A6FE00A0CC3FAA305BB365@ADGSERVER> Hi all, We are using Access XP SP2 on Windows 2000. The weird behavior we are seeing is when you go to view a module in design mode that is not checked out and you tell it to not check it out, it will take you to the code MDI form, but the module that you requested is not there. That is, it does not open the module unless you check it out. Anyone else seen this? Any solutions? Thanks, Bobby From michael.broesdorf at web.de Mon Mar 22 09:29:40 2004 From: michael.broesdorf at web.de (=?us-ascii?Q?Michael_Brosdorf?=) Date: Mon, 22 Mar 2004 16:29:40 +0100 Subject: [AccessD] What help system works with Access 2003? In-Reply-To: <916187228923D311A6FE00A0CC3FAA305BB365@ADGSERVER> Message-ID: Dear group, which help system is best to use with Access 2003? Online help tells me, that if a help file is specified, Access will start Winhelp OR HTML Help - but how does it decide which? Are there any pros/cons for these systems? TIA, Michael From rmoore at comtechpst.com Mon Mar 22 09:38:16 2004 From: rmoore at comtechpst.com (Ron Moore) Date: Mon, 22 Mar 2004 10:38:16 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Can't Delete a Bad Autonumber Key: Message-ID: <000001c41023$b1b20430$b314a8c0@Comtech.Comtechpst.com> We have a A2K Repairs DB where an autonumber key is generated via code from our Customer Service DB. The Repairs DB has a bad key (212736) which cannot be deleted (last good autonumber key is 919). Error message reads, 'The search key was not found in any record'. Cascading Delete was turned off and we still get the error. The updates &/or creations are no longer taking place. At a loss, Ron Moore Sr. Database Administrator Comtech PST Corp. Melville, NY www.comtechpst.com From my.lists at verizon.net Mon Mar 22 09:49:58 2004 From: my.lists at verizon.net (Francisco H Tapia) Date: Mon, 22 Mar 2004 07:49:58 -0800 Subject: [AccessD] Can't Delete a Bad Autonumber Key: In-Reply-To: <000001c41023$b1b20430$b314a8c0@Comtech.Comtechpst.com> References: <000001c41023$b1b20430$b314a8c0@Comtech.Comtechpst.com> Message-ID: <405F0B26.6060404@verizon.net> One solution is to import everything into a new table and simply omit the record you don't want imported something like in the where clause like... Where ID <> 212736 (by the way... its typically safer (less corruptions) to allow JET to create the autonumber.) Hths Ron Moore wrote: >We have a A2K Repairs DB where an autonumber key is generated via code >from our Customer Service DB. The Repairs DB has a bad key (212736) >which cannot be deleted (last good autonumber key is 919). Error >message reads, 'The search key was not found in any record'. Cascading >Delete was turned off and we still get the error. The updates &/or >creations are no longer taking place. > > -- -Francisco From cfoust at infostatsystems.com Mon Mar 22 10:57:58 2004 From: cfoust at infostatsystems.com (Charlotte Foust) Date: Mon, 22 Mar 2004 08:57:58 -0800 Subject: [AccessD] Weird VSS behavior. Message-ID: It's just the way that VSS works, I'm afraid. With form or report modules, if you open the object in design view first and then go to the code window, you'll be in the code module for that unchecked-out form or report. With code modules, that doesn't seem to work. Charlotte Foust -----Original Message----- From: Bobby Heid [mailto:bheid at appdevgrp.com] Sent: Monday, March 22, 2004 5:17 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: [AccessD] Weird VSS behavior. Hi all, We are using Access XP SP2 on Windows 2000. The weird behavior we are seeing is when you go to view a module in design mode that is not checked out and you tell it to not check it out, it will take you to the code MDI form, but the module that you requested is not there. That is, it does not open the module unless you check it out. Anyone else seen this? Any solutions? Thanks, Bobby -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From ggonzalez at cccis.com Mon Mar 22 11:10:38 2004 From: ggonzalez at cccis.com (ggonzalez at cccis.com) Date: Mon, 22 Mar 2004 11:10:38 -0600 Subject: [AccessD] Not enough space on disk. In-Reply-To: <000001c41023$b1b20430$b314a8c0@Comtech.Comtechpst.com> Message-ID: I am gettin getting this error when I try to open a database on my computer. I have plenty od disk space available though. When I go to another computer and access the same database I have no problem. Does anybody have any sugestions why this is happening. Thanks, Gumaro From my.lists at verizon.net Mon Mar 22 11:25:52 2004 From: my.lists at verizon.net (Francisco H Tapia) Date: Mon, 22 Mar 2004 09:25:52 -0800 Subject: [AccessD] Not enough space on disk. In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <405F21A0.7070302@verizon.net> How much hdd space is available on your C: for the computer that gets this error?, how much ram does it have? ggonzalez at cccis.com wrote: > > >I am gettin getting this error when I try to open a database on my >computer. I have plenty od disk space available though. When I go to >another computer and access the same database I have no problem. > >Does anybody have any sugestions why this is happening. > >Thanks, Gumaro > > > -- -Francisco From ggonzalez at cccis.com Mon Mar 22 11:33:06 2004 From: ggonzalez at cccis.com (ggonzalez at cccis.com) Date: Mon, 22 Mar 2004 11:33:06 -0600 Subject: [AccessD] Not enough space on disk. In-Reply-To: <405F21A0.7070302@verizon.net> Message-ID: I have 3 Gig and 256 of ram Francisco H Tapia To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Sent by: accessd-bounces at databasea cc: dvisors.com Subject: Re: [AccessD] Not enough space on disk. 03/22/2004 11:25 AM Please respond to Access Developers discussion and problem solving How much hdd space is available on your C: for the computer that gets this error?, how much ram does it have? ggonzalez at cccis.com wrote: > > >I am gettin getting this error when I try to open a database on my >computer. I have plenty od disk space available though. When I go to >another computer and access the same database I have no problem. > >Does anybody have any sugestions why this is happening. > >Thanks, Gumaro > > > -- -Francisco -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From bheid at appdevgrp.com Mon Mar 22 11:43:21 2004 From: bheid at appdevgrp.com (Bobby Heid) Date: Mon, 22 Mar 2004 12:43:21 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Weird VSS behavior. In-Reply-To: <916187228923D311A6FE00A0CC3FAA307E9338@ADGSERVER> Message-ID: <916187228923D311A6FE00A0CC3FAA305BB369@ADGSERVER> Thanks for the reply Charlotte. The weird part is that it does work correctly some times. Bobby -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Charlotte Foust Sent: Monday, March 22, 2004 11:58 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] Weird VSS behavior. It's just the way that VSS works, I'm afraid. With form or report modules, if you open the object in design view first and then go to the code window, you'll be in the code module for that unchecked-out form or report. With code modules, that doesn't seem to work. Charlotte Foust -----Original Message----- From: Bobby Heid [mailto:bheid at appdevgrp.com] Sent: Monday, March 22, 2004 5:17 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: [AccessD] Weird VSS behavior. Hi all, We are using Access XP SP2 on Windows 2000. The weird behavior we are seeing is when you go to view a module in design mode that is not checked out and you tell it to not check it out, it will take you to the code MDI form, but the module that you requested is not there. That is, it does not open the module unless you check it out. Anyone else seen this? Any solutions? Thanks, Bobby -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From garykjos at hotmail.com Mon Mar 22 11:55:35 2004 From: garykjos at hotmail.com (Gary Kjos) Date: Mon, 22 Mar 2004 11:55:35 -0600 Subject: [AccessD] Not enough space on disk. Message-ID: Have you tried a reboot? Sometimes when weirdness happens that's the first thing to do. Gary Kjos garykjos at hotmail.com >From: ggonzalez at cccis.com >Reply-To: Access Developers discussion and problem >solving >To: Access Developers discussion and problem >solving >Subject: Re: [AccessD] Not enough space on disk. >Date: Mon, 22 Mar 2004 11:10:38 -0600 > > > > > >I am gettin getting this error when I try to open a database on my >computer. I have plenty od disk space available though. When I go to >another computer and access the same database I have no problem. > >Does anybody have any sugestions why this is happening. > >Thanks, Gumaro > >-- >_______________________________________________ >AccessD mailing list >AccessD at databaseadvisors.com >http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd >Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com _________________________________________________________________ Get reliable access on MSN 9 Dial-up. 3 months for the price of 1! (Limited-time offer) http://click.atdmt.com/AVE/go/onm00200361ave/direct/01/ From gustav at cactus.dk Mon Mar 22 12:02:23 2004 From: gustav at cactus.dk (Gustav Brock) Date: Mon, 22 Mar 2004 19:02:23 +0100 Subject: [AccessD] Not enough space on disk. In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <10536949901.20040322190223@cactus.dk> Hi Gonzalez If your disk is FAT32 formatted it could be a problem with a temp file. Try running a disk repair. /gustav > I have 3 Gig and 256 of ram From my.lists at verizon.net Mon Mar 22 12:22:54 2004 From: my.lists at verizon.net (Francisco H Tapia) Date: Mon, 22 Mar 2004 10:22:54 -0800 Subject: [AccessD] Not enough space on disk. In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <405F2EFE.6080805@verizon.net> try a reboot like suggested by Gary Kjos, additonally what OS is this running on? win95/98/ME/nt/2k/xp? ggonzalez at cccis.com wrote: > > >I have 3 Gig and 256 of ram > > > > > >How much hdd space is available on your C: for the computer that gets >this error?, how much ram does it have? > > >ggonzalez at cccis.com wrote: > > > >>I am gettin getting this error when I try to open a database on my >>computer. I have plenty od disk space available though. When I go to >>another computer and access the same database I have no problem. >> >>Does anybody have any sugestions why this is happening. >> >>Thanks, Gumaro >> >> >> >> >> > > > > <>-- -Francisco From ggonzalez at cccis.com Mon Mar 22 12:27:01 2004 From: ggonzalez at cccis.com (ggonzalez at cccis.com) Date: Mon, 22 Mar 2004 12:27:01 -0600 Subject: [AccessD] Not enough space on disk. In-Reply-To: <405F2EFE.6080805@verizon.net> Message-ID: I have tried rebooting and several of the options in the Microsoft knowledge base to no avail. Thanks |---------+------------------------------------> | | Francisco H Tapia | | | | | | Sent by: | | | accessd-bounces at databasea| | | dvisors.com | | | | | | | | | 03/22/2004 12:22 PM | | | Please respond to Access | | | Developers discussion and| | | problem solving | |---------+------------------------------------> >---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------| | | | To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving | | cc: | | Subject: Re: [AccessD] Not enough space on disk. | >---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------| try a reboot like suggested by Gary Kjos, additonally what OS is this running on? win95/98/ME/nt/2k/xp? ggonzalez at cccis.com wrote: > > >I have 3 Gig and 256 of ram > > > > > >How much hdd space is available on your C: for the computer that gets >this error?, how much ram does it have? > > >ggonzalez at cccis.com wrote: > > > >>I am gettin getting this error when I try to open a database on my >>computer. I have plenty od disk space available though. When I go to >>another computer and access the same database I have no problem. >> >>Does anybody have any sugestions why this is happening. >> >>Thanks, Gumaro >> >> >> >> >> > > > > <>-- -Francisco -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From rmoore at comtechpst.com Mon Mar 22 12:27:08 2004 From: rmoore at comtechpst.com (Ron Moore) Date: Mon, 22 Mar 2004 13:27:08 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Can't Delete a Bad Autonumber Key: In-Reply-To: <405F0B26.6060404@verizon.net> Message-ID: <000401c4103b$49223530$af14a8c0@Comtech.Comtechpst.com> Thanks Francisco, We're copying all records to a new table (less the bad key). BTW, my previous post was misleading. We are allowing the autonumber to generate the key. 'via code' was meant to say record add/update was via code (not the key itself). Thanks Again, Ron -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Francisco H Tapia Sent: Monday, March 22, 2004 10:50 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Can't Delete a Bad Autonumber Key: One solution is to import everything into a new table and simply omit the record you don't want imported something like in the where clause like... Where ID <> 212736 (by the way... its typically safer (less corruptions) to allow JET to create the autonumber.) Hths Ron Moore wrote: >We have a A2K Repairs DB where an autonumber key is generated via code >from our Customer Service DB. The Repairs DB has a bad key (212736) >which cannot be deleted (last good autonumber key is 919). Error >message reads, 'The search key was not found in any record'. Cascading >Delete was turned off and we still get the error. The updates &/or >creations are no longer taking place. > > -- -Francisco -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From John.Clark at niagaracounty.com Mon Mar 22 12:35:33 2004 From: John.Clark at niagaracounty.com (John Clark) Date: Mon, 22 Mar 2004 13:35:33 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Not enough space on disk. Message-ID: Are you running on a network at all? If so, what NOS? And, if so, are you logged in as yourself, on the other PCs? >>> ggonzalez at cccis.com 3/22/2004 1:27:01 PM >>> I have tried rebooting and several of the options in the Microsoft knowledge base to no avail. Thanks |---------+------------------------------------> | | Francisco H Tapia | | | | | | Sent by: | | | accessd-bounces at databasea| | | dvisors.com | | | | | | | | | 03/22/2004 12:22 PM | | | Please respond to Access | | | Developers discussion and| | | problem solving | |---------+------------------------------------> >---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------| | | | To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving | | cc: | | Subject: Re: [AccessD] Not enough space on disk. | >---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------| try a reboot like suggested by Gary Kjos, additonally what OS is this running on? win95/98/ME/nt/2k/xp? ggonzalez at cccis.com wrote: > > >I have 3 Gig and 256 of ram > > > > > >How much hdd space is available on your C: for the computer that gets >this error?, how much ram does it have? > > >ggonzalez at cccis.com wrote: > > > >>I am gettin getting this error when I try to open a database on my >>computer. I have plenty od disk space available though. When I go to >>another computer and access the same database I have no problem. >> >>Does anybody have any sugestions why this is happening. >> >>Thanks, Gumaro >> >> >> >> >> > > > > <>-- -Francisco -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From DWUTKA at marlow.com Mon Mar 22 13:00:05 2004 From: DWUTKA at marlow.com (DWUTKA at marlow.com) Date: Mon, 22 Mar 2004 13:00:05 -0600 Subject: [AccessD] Using Access for Reports w/an ASP app? Message-ID: <2F8793082E00D4119A1700B0D0216BF80222799E@main2.marlow.com> Honestly don't know Susan. To be quite frank, I have never used either. It's very simple to have Access 'export' a report, to a file, which is then 'redirected' through ASP to the user. The system I built was put in place due to the 'prompts' that the reports were giving, which were no problem on the local LAN, where the users had direct access with Access, but for remote users, those reports took forever, and Terminal Server was getting bogged down (not too mention they were having printing problems). Quite frankly, I like snapshot files better then any other format, simply because I find that it keeps the 'formatting' closer to the actual report (in my experience). But I have never used the 'snapshot Viewer control'. Drew -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Susan Harkins Sent: Friday, March 19, 2004 5:21 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: [AccessD] Using Access for Reports w/an ASP app? Drew -- this really isn't in response to your post, but just a general question that relates more back to the original problem -- kind of.. Does the Snapshot Viewer control solution have some advantage over XML? Since Access automatically generates web-ready files, I'm curious why someone might choose the control solution instead. It's easy to pull together, but so is an XM-based solution. Is there some advantage. Susan H. From ssharkins at bellsouth.net Mon Mar 22 13:24:11 2004 From: ssharkins at bellsouth.net (Susan Harkins) Date: Mon, 22 Mar 2004 14:24:11 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Using Access for Reports w/an ASP app? In-Reply-To: <2F8793082E00D4119A1700B0D0216BF80222799E@main2.marlow.com> Message-ID: <20040322192410.NULX1781.imf18aec.mail.bellsouth.net@SUSANONE> So far, the main differences I've run across are: 1. The Snapshot Viewer control is a much simpler technique. You don't need any real expertise with Access or SV to use it. Generating a web-ready report with Access is fairly easy, but you have to know what you're doing -- even if you use the ui. 2. The XML feature generates an actual page which means everytime you have to update the report, you have to update the actual Web page. With the SV, you just save the new .snp file to the appropriate Web folder. You don't have to actually update the page with the XML code for the new report. Now, there may be a way around that one, but I don't know what it is besides automation, which kind of negates the need for the SV technique in the first place. 3. The SV gives you an exact copy -- can't get that with XML. This isn't a recommendation for SV and against XML by any means. It's just a coincidence that I happen to be writing about the SV technique and I had to think through the advantages/disadvantages -- just didn't want to miss anything if I could help it. Susan H. Honestly don't know Susan. To be quite frank, I have never used either. It's very simple to have Access 'export' a report, to a file, which is then 'redirected' through ASP to the user. The system I built was put in place due to the 'prompts' that the reports were giving, which were no problem on the local LAN, where the users had direct access with Access, but for remote users, those reports took forever, and Terminal Server was getting bogged down (not too mention they were having printing problems). Quite frankly, I like snapshot files better then any other format, simply because I find that it keeps the 'formatting' closer to the actual report (in my experience). But I have never used the 'snapshot Viewer control'. From Erwin.Craps at ithelps.be Mon Mar 22 13:26:03 2004 From: Erwin.Craps at ithelps.be (Erwin Craps - IT Helps) Date: Mon, 22 Mar 2004 20:26:03 +0100 Subject: [AccessD] Not enough space on disk. Message-ID: <46B976F2B698FF46A4FE7636509B22DF0AD65D@stekelbes.ithelps.local> You can get this error when having to many (other) files in the temp folder. There is a limit on the number of files you can have in one folder. Depending on the filesystem FAT or FAT32 can cause this. Close all applications and deletes all files in on more folowing folders depending on the OS. C:\TEMP C:\WINDOWS\TEMP C:\WINNT\TEMP C:\Documents and Settings\YOUR USERNAME\Local Settings\temp Sometimes the TEMP is TMP Erwin -----Oorspronkelijk bericht----- Van: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] Namens John Clark Verzonden: maandag 22 maart 2004 19:36 Aan: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Onderwerp: Re: [AccessD] Not enough space on disk. Are you running on a network at all? If so, what NOS? And, if so, are you logged in as yourself, on the other PCs? >>> ggonzalez at cccis.com 3/22/2004 1:27:01 PM >>> I have tried rebooting and several of the options in the Microsoft knowledge base to no avail. Thanks |---------+------------------------------------> | | Francisco H Tapia | | | | | | Sent by: | | | accessd-bounces at databasea| | | dvisors.com | | | | | | | | | 03/22/2004 12:22 PM | | | Please respond to Access | | | Developers discussion and| | | problem solving | |---------+------------------------------------> >----------------------------------------------------------------------- ----------------------------------------------------------------------| | | | To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving | | cc: | | Subject: Re: [AccessD] Not enough space on disk. | >----------------------------------------------------------------------- ----------------------------------------------------------------------| try a reboot like suggested by Gary Kjos, additonally what OS is this running on? win95/98/ME/nt/2k/xp? ggonzalez at cccis.com wrote: > > >I have 3 Gig and 256 of ram > > > > > >How much hdd space is available on your C: for the computer that gets >this error?, how much ram does it have? > > >ggonzalez at cccis.com wrote: > > > >>I am gettin getting this error when I try to open a database on my >>computer. I have plenty od disk space available though. When I go to >>another computer and access the same database I have no problem. >> >>Does anybody have any sugestions why this is happening. >> >>Thanks, Gumaro >> >> >> >> >> > > > > <>-- -Francisco -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From ggonzalez at cccis.com Mon Mar 22 14:05:04 2004 From: ggonzalez at cccis.com (ggonzalez at cccis.com) Date: Mon, 22 Mar 2004 14:05:04 -0600 Subject: [AccessD] Not enough space on disk. In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Yes, Novel is the NOS. It seems that is the problem. Even though I was trying to access local databases the security file that I use is on the network. when I changed the security file locally everything worked fine, I then requested more space on the network and all worked there also. Thanks to everyone for their help. "John Clark" .com> cc: Sent by: Subject: Re: [AccessD] Not enough space on disk. accessd-bounces at databasea dvisors.com 03/22/2004 12:35 PM Please respond to Access Developers discussion and problem solving Are you running on a network at all? If so, what NOS? And, if so, are you logged in as yourself, on the other PCs? >>> ggonzalez at cccis.com 3/22/2004 1:27:01 PM >>> I have tried rebooting and several of the options in the Microsoft knowledge base to no avail. Thanks |---------+------------------------------------> | | Francisco H Tapia | | | | | | Sent by: | | | accessd-bounces at databasea| | | dvisors.com | | | | | | | | | 03/22/2004 12:22 PM | | | Please respond to Access | | | Developers discussion and| | | problem solving | |---------+------------------------------------> >---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------| | | | To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving | | cc: | | Subject: Re: [AccessD] Not enough space on disk. | >---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------| try a reboot like suggested by Gary Kjos, additonally what OS is this running on? win95/98/ME/nt/2k/xp? ggonzalez at cccis.com wrote: > > >I have 3 Gig and 256 of ram > > > > > >How much hdd space is available on your C: for the computer that gets >this error?, how much ram does it have? > > >ggonzalez at cccis.com wrote: > > > >>I am gettin getting this error when I try to open a database on my >>computer. I have plenty od disk space available though. When I go to >>another computer and access the same database I have no problem. >> >>Does anybody have any sugestions why this is happening. >> >>Thanks, Gumaro >> >> >> >> >> > > > > <>-- -Francisco -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From Patricia.O'Connor at DFA.STATE.NY.US Mon Mar 22 14:26:31 2004 From: Patricia.O'Connor at DFA.STATE.NY.US (O'Connor, Patricia ) Date: Mon, 22 Mar 2004 15:26:31 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Execute stored query using ADO Message-ID: Charlotte. I had to switch the connection to the "current project" not use the oracle connection This worked '************************************************************************* Set cnn = CurrentProject.Connection '* SET to Current Database cnn.Execute "q01aCreateNycFsTable", lngAffected, adExecuteNoRecords I was not able to get the other to work Thanks Patti > -----Original Message----- > From: Charlotte Foust [mailto:cfoust at infostatsystems.com] > Sent: Friday, March 19, 2004 05:05 PM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: RE: [AccessD] Execute stored query using ADO > > > I've used that syntax to execute a saved query in Access before. Can > you successfully execute the query using DAO? > > Charlotte Foust > > -----Original Message----- > From: O'Connor, Patricia [mailto:Patricia.O'Connor at DFA.STATE.NY.US] > Sent: Friday, March 19, 2004 1:46 PM > To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' > Subject: [AccessD] Execute stored query using ADO > > > Hi all > > I am attempting to set up a job stream in VBA. The first example works > fine > > strSql = "INSERT INTO TBL_EXPFSDT (EXPFS_BASE_DT)" > strSql = strSql & " VALUES (TO_DATE('" & dtNew & "', > 'MM/DD/YYYY'))" > cmd.CommandText = strSql > cmd.ActiveConnection = cnn > cmd.CommandType = adCmdText > cmd.Execute lngAffected, , adExecuteNoRecords > > Then next step is to execute a stored passthru query named > q01aCreateNycFsTable the following does not work > Set cmd = New ADODB.Command > cmd.ActiveConnection = cnn > cmd.CommandText = "q01aCreateNycFsTable" > cmd.CommandType = adCmdStoredProc > cmd.Execute lngAffected, , adExecuteNoRecords > > This is driving me nuts, I have tried several other > combinations. I have > other queries I wish to do the same thing but do not want to have to > string out like in first example - TOO long. > > How do I run an access query using ADO or do I have to use DAO. > > Thanks > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > From cfoust at infostatsystems.com Mon Mar 22 14:33:33 2004 From: cfoust at infostatsystems.com (Charlotte Foust) Date: Mon, 22 Mar 2004 12:33:33 -0800 Subject: [AccessD] Execute stored query using ADO Message-ID: What were you setting the connection to before? Are you saying that you couldn't get the Cmd object code to work using CurrentProject.Connection as the connection? Charlotte Foust -----Original Message----- From: O'Connor, Patricia [mailto:Patricia.O'Connor at DFA.STATE.NY.US] Sent: Monday, March 22, 2004 12:27 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: [AccessD] Execute stored query using ADO Charlotte. I had to switch the connection to the "current project" not use the oracle connection This worked '*********************************************************************** ** Set cnn = CurrentProject.Connection '* SET to Current Database cnn.Execute "q01aCreateNycFsTable", lngAffected, adExecuteNoRecords I was not able to get the other to work Thanks Patti > -----Original Message----- > From: Charlotte Foust [mailto:cfoust at infostatsystems.com] > Sent: Friday, March 19, 2004 05:05 PM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: RE: [AccessD] Execute stored query using ADO > > > I've used that syntax to execute a saved query in Access before. Can > you successfully execute the query using DAO? > > Charlotte Foust > > -----Original Message----- > From: O'Connor, Patricia [mailto:Patricia.O'Connor at DFA.STATE.NY.US] > Sent: Friday, March 19, 2004 1:46 PM > To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' > Subject: [AccessD] Execute stored query using ADO > > > Hi all > > I am attempting to set up a job stream in VBA. The first example works > fine > > strSql = "INSERT INTO TBL_EXPFSDT (EXPFS_BASE_DT)" > strSql = strSql & " VALUES (TO_DATE('" & dtNew & "', > 'MM/DD/YYYY'))" > cmd.CommandText = strSql > cmd.ActiveConnection = cnn > cmd.CommandType = adCmdText > cmd.Execute lngAffected, , adExecuteNoRecords > > Then next step is to execute a stored passthru query named > q01aCreateNycFsTable the following does not work > Set cmd = New ADODB.Command > cmd.ActiveConnection = cnn > cmd.CommandText = "q01aCreateNycFsTable" > cmd.CommandType = adCmdStoredProc > cmd.Execute lngAffected, , adExecuteNoRecords > > This is driving me nuts, I have tried several other > combinations. I have > other queries I wish to do the same thing but do not want to have to > string out like in first example - TOO long. > > How do I run an access query using ADO or do I have to use DAO. > > Thanks > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From dkalsow at yahoo.com Mon Mar 22 14:51:40 2004 From: dkalsow at yahoo.com (Dale Kalsow) Date: Mon, 22 Mar 2004 12:51:40 -0800 (PST) Subject: [AccessD] Web Pages in Access Message-ID: <20040322205140.23889.qmail@web9804.mail.yahoo.com> Does Anyone have experiance with creating web pages through Acess. I have a form that currently works within access. It displays the fields of a table and then has a subform that displays (and allows modifications) all of the parts that go along with the master record. I can export the form to html but loose the subform and have not been able to figure out how to recrate the functionally of the subform. All help is appreciated! Thanks! Dale Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Finance Tax Center - File online. File on time. From Jdemarco at hudsonhealthplan.org Mon Mar 22 14:53:39 2004 From: Jdemarco at hudsonhealthplan.org (Jim DeMarco) Date: Mon, 22 Mar 2004 15:53:39 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Using Access for Reports w/an ASP app? Message-ID: <22F1CCD5171D17419CB37FEEE09D5F9902E800C4@TTNEXCHSRV1.hshhp.com> There was an article in the October 2003 Smart Access on dynamically creating XML reports in A2K2 using .NET that I thought looked doable in ASP (actually sending criteria to an existing report and outputting it as XML). For a primer on XML reports Susan and I wrote an article on the basics of Access XML reporting for Inside Microsoft Access but I couldn't find my copy to give you the date. Sometime last year though. HTH, Jim DeMarco Director Application Development Hudson Health Plan -----Original Message----- From: Susan Harkins [mailto:ssharkins at bellsouth.net] Sent: Monday, March 22, 2004 2:24 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: [AccessD] Using Access for Reports w/an ASP app? So far, the main differences I've run across are: 1. The Snapshot Viewer control is a much simpler technique. You don't need any real expertise with Access or SV to use it. Generating a web-ready report with Access is fairly easy, but you have to know what you're doing -- even if you use the ui. 2. The XML feature generates an actual page which means everytime you have to update the report, you have to update the actual Web page. With the SV, you just save the new .snp file to the appropriate Web folder. You don't have to actually update the page with the XML code for the new report. Now, there may be a way around that one, but I don't know what it is besides automation, which kind of negates the need for the SV technique in the first place. 3. The SV gives you an exact copy -- can't get that with XML. This isn't a recommendation for SV and against XML by any means. It's just a coincidence that I happen to be writing about the SV technique and I had to think through the advantages/disadvantages -- just didn't want to miss anything if I could help it. Susan H. Honestly don't know Susan. To be quite frank, I have never used either. It's very simple to have Access 'export' a report, to a file, which is then 'redirected' through ASP to the user. The system I built was put in place due to the 'prompts' that the reports were giving, which were no problem on the local LAN, where the users had direct access with Access, but for remote users, those reports took forever, and Terminal Server was getting bogged down (not too mention they were having printing problems). Quite frankly, I like snapshot files better then any other format, simply because I find that it keeps the 'formatting' closer to the actual report (in my experience). But I have never used the 'snapshot Viewer control'. -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com *********************************************************************************** "This electronic message is intended to be for the use only of the named recipient, and may contain information from Hudson Health Plan (HHP) that is confidential or privileged. If you are not the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any disclosure, copying, distribution or use of the contents of this message is strictly prohibited. If you have received this message in error or are not the named recipient, please notify us immediately, either by contacting the sender at the electronic mail address noted above or calling HHP at (914) 631-1611. If you are not the intended recipient, please do not forward this email to anyone, and delete and destroy all copies of this message. Thank You". *********************************************************************************** From ssharkins at bellsouth.net Mon Mar 22 15:00:24 2004 From: ssharkins at bellsouth.net (Susan Harkins) Date: Mon, 22 Mar 2004 16:00:24 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Using Access for Reports w/an ASP app? In-Reply-To: <22F1CCD5171D17419CB37FEEE09D5F9902E800C4@TTNEXCHSRV1.hshhp.com> Message-ID: <20040322210022.PZPE1715.imf16aec.mail.bellsouth.net@SUSANONE> For my own purposes, I was looking for an easy solution that didn't involve a lot of expertise any anything -- not even Web design -- and the SV technique wins on that round. ;) Susan H. There was an article in the October 2003 Smart Access on dynamically creating XML reports in A2K2 using .NET that I thought looked doable in ASP (actually sending criteria to an existing report and outputting it as XML). For a primer on XML reports Susan and I wrote an article on the basics of Access XML reporting for Inside Microsoft Access but I couldn't find my copy to give you the date. Sometime last year though. From Jdemarco at hudsonhealthplan.org Mon Mar 22 15:07:08 2004 From: Jdemarco at hudsonhealthplan.org (Jim DeMarco) Date: Mon, 22 Mar 2004 16:07:08 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Using Access for Reports w/an ASP app? Message-ID: <22F1CCD5171D17419CB37FEEE09D5F99030FE5D1@TTNEXCHSRV1.hshhp.com> True. BTW the Smart Access article was May 03, sorry. Jim D. -----Original Message----- From: Susan Harkins [mailto:ssharkins at bellsouth.net] Sent: Monday, March 22, 2004 4:00 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: [AccessD] Using Access for Reports w/an ASP app? For my own purposes, I was looking for an easy solution that didn't involve a lot of expertise any anything -- not even Web design -- and the SV technique wins on that round. ;) Susan H. There was an article in the October 2003 Smart Access on dynamically creating XML reports in A2K2 using .NET that I thought looked doable in ASP (actually sending criteria to an existing report and outputting it as XML). For a primer on XML reports Susan and I wrote an article on the basics of Access XML reporting for Inside Microsoft Access but I couldn't find my copy to give you the date. Sometime last year though. -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com *********************************************************************************** "This electronic message is intended to be for the use only of the named recipient, and may contain information from Hudson Health Plan (HHP) that is confidential or privileged. If you are not the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any disclosure, copying, distribution or use of the contents of this message is strictly prohibited. If you have received this message in error or are not the named recipient, please notify us immediately, either by contacting the sender at the electronic mail address noted above or calling HHP at (914) 631-1611. If you are not the intended recipient, please do not forward this email to anyone, and delete and destroy all copies of this message. Thank You". *********************************************************************************** From Subscriptions at servicexp.com Mon Mar 22 16:10:12 2004 From: Subscriptions at servicexp.com (Robert Gracie) Date: Mon, 22 Mar 2004 17:10:12 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Framework Discussion - SysVars In-Reply-To: Message-ID: John, No save guards on the SV call, say if the class has, for whatever reason, gone out of scope? Robert Gracie www.servicexp.com -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of John W. Colby Sent: Sunday, March 21, 2004 11:37 PM To: AccessD Subject: [AccessD] Framework Discussion - SysVars The following is a discussion of Sysvars. The demo file can be downloaded from my site. I have begun deleting older MDBs out of the zip file to slim it back down since the original ZIPs are out there for the demos for the earlier documents. There is a form in the V5 mdb for demoing the SysVar system in that MDB. SNIP ' Function SV(strSVName As String, Optional strSVFld As String = "SV_VarValue") As Variant On Error GoTo Err_SV Select Case strSVFld Case "SV_VarValue" SV = mcolSysVars(strSVName).Value() Case "SV_Memo" SV = mcolSysVars(strSVName).Memo() Case "SV_UserEditable" SV = mcolSysVars(strSVName).UserEditable() Case "SV_AllowOverride" SV = mcolSysVars(strSVName).AllowOverride() Case Else End Select Exit_SV: Exit Function Err_SV: MsgBox Err.Description, , "Error in Function clsSysVars.SV" Resume Exit_SV Resume 0 '.FOR TROUBLESHOOTING End Function Summary The SysVar system is most logically broken down into three classes, one is the Service Class itself clsSysVars. This is the class that the developer interfaces with directly. This class then uses clsSysVarsTbl instances to read the data out of one or more SysVar tables, loading the data itself into clsSysVar instances which are saved in a collection directly in the Service Class. clsSysVars then has public wrapper methods that pass requests to refresh the SysVars and read SysVar values out of the clsSysVar class instances. Of course this could have been implemented differently; in fact my first SysVar system used a single class which ?did it all?. It was ugly however, and I think a three class ?system? implementing SysVars is an easier to understand way to implement it. Each of the three classes has its own job to do. ClsSysVars uses clsSysVarsTbl to read out the data into clsSysVar instances. clsSysVars manages the process, setting up and tearing down all the child classes, and wrapping requests for the child class methods to pass along the requests for data or services. SysVars will be used throughout the Framework to allow us to select from two or more possible behaviors. The table in the Framework will hold the default values to program default behaviors, but the table in the FE itself will be able to override the default values to change behaviors as needed in that specific FE or application. In the next article we will see SysVars used to do exactly that. John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com Mon Mar 22 19:45:32 2004 From: jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com (John W. Colby) Date: Mon, 22 Mar 2004 20:45:32 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Framework Discussion - SysVars In-Reply-To: Message-ID: SV as demoed is nothing more than a wrapper to the function in the class. In a live system the SysVar class cannot go out of scope since it is global. If the class is being terminated, you want to find and fix that, not just reinstantiate it. John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Robert Gracie Sent: Monday, March 22, 2004 5:10 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] Framework Discussion - SysVars John, No save guards on the SV call, say if the class has, for whatever reason, gone out of scope? Robert Gracie www.servicexp.com -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of John W. Colby Sent: Sunday, March 21, 2004 11:37 PM To: AccessD Subject: [AccessD] Framework Discussion - SysVars The following is a discussion of Sysvars. The demo file can be downloaded from my site. I have begun deleting older MDBs out of the zip file to slim it back down since the original ZIPs are out there for the demos for the earlier documents. There is a form in the V5 mdb for demoing the SysVar system in that MDB. SNIP ' Function SV(strSVName As String, Optional strSVFld As String = "SV_VarValue") As Variant On Error GoTo Err_SV Select Case strSVFld Case "SV_VarValue" SV = mcolSysVars(strSVName).Value() Case "SV_Memo" SV = mcolSysVars(strSVName).Memo() Case "SV_UserEditable" SV = mcolSysVars(strSVName).UserEditable() Case "SV_AllowOverride" SV = mcolSysVars(strSVName).AllowOverride() Case Else End Select Exit_SV: Exit Function Err_SV: MsgBox Err.Description, , "Error in Function clsSysVars.SV" Resume Exit_SV Resume 0 '.FOR TROUBLESHOOTING End Function Summary The SysVar system is most logically broken down into three classes, one is the Service Class itself clsSysVars. This is the class that the developer interfaces with directly. This class then uses clsSysVarsTbl instances to read the data out of one or more SysVar tables, loading the data itself into clsSysVar instances which are saved in a collection directly in the Service Class. clsSysVars then has public wrapper methods that pass requests to refresh the SysVars and read SysVar values out of the clsSysVar class instances. Of course this could have been implemented differently; in fact my first SysVar system used a single class which ?did it all?. It was ugly however, and I think a three class ?system? implementing SysVars is an easier to understand way to implement it. Each of the three classes has its own job to do. ClsSysVars uses clsSysVarsTbl to read out the data into clsSysVar instances. clsSysVars manages the process, setting up and tearing down all the child classes, and wrapping requests for the child class methods to pass along the requests for data or services. SysVars will be used throughout the Framework to allow us to select from two or more possible behaviors. The table in the Framework will hold the default values to program default behaviors, but the table in the FE itself will be able to override the default values to change behaviors as needed in that specific FE or application. In the next article we will see SysVars used to do exactly that. John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From deanellis at iprimus.com.au Tue Mar 23 01:51:35 2004 From: deanellis at iprimus.com.au (Dean Ellis) Date: Tue, 23 Mar 2004 18:21:35 +1030 (Cen. Australia Daylight Time) Subject: [AccessD] Detecting CD Drive Constantly Message-ID: <405FEC87.000008.59601@jedel> Hi guys Thanks for your websites showing the code for detecting CD Drive Letters. I don't think it's quite what I'm after. Correct me if I'm wrong, but one will only tell what type of drive the leter that I type in is, and the other just provides a list of drive letters to choose from. What I am after is some code that I can use so that when I open the db from the CD Rom in ANY machine, be it Laptop, Desktop, W98, XP yahda yahda yahda, It determines the CD Drive Letter. This will then enable me to use that information to create a file path to some media that can then be used by the Active X Controls, or to view some images. If the code shown to me does this, then could some one provide me with some guidance on how to use it as the code seems to be there, but no real instructions on what to place where and on what kind of control etc. The two site are: http://www.vb2themax.com/NLItem.asp?PageID=NewsletterBank&ID=1040 http://www.mvps.org/access/api/api0003.htm Cheers Dean From caa at highway.com.br Tue Mar 23 02:39:00 2004 From: caa at highway.com.br (Carlos Alberto Alves) Date: Tue, 23 Mar 2004 05:39:00 -0300 Subject: [AccessD] Synchronize with Palm or PocketPC In-Reply-To: <000501c40ded$53313300$de1811d8@DanWaters> References: <000501c40ded$53313300$de1811d8@DanWaters> Message-ID: On Fri, 19 Mar 2004 14:04:02 -0600, Dan Waters wrote: > Hello everyone, > > > > I have a client where a possibly good solution would be to enter > information > into a PDA and then synchronize it with an Access app once per day. > > > > Can anyone point me in a direction to learn more about this? Anyone have > any good/lousy experiences? > > > > Thanks! > > Dan Waters > Take a look at http://www.syware.com/ HTH, -- ****************************** * Carlos Alberto Alves * * Child Neurologist * * Systems Analyst/Programmer * * Rio de Janeiro, Brazil * * mailto:caa at highway.com.br * ****************************** From stuart at lexacorp.com.pg Tue Mar 23 02:44:32 2004 From: stuart at lexacorp.com.pg (Stuart McLachlan) Date: Tue, 23 Mar 2004 18:44:32 +1000 Subject: [AccessD] Detecting CD Drive Constantly In-Reply-To: <405FEC87.000008.59601@jedel> Message-ID: <40608590.7960.29EE5B1@localhost> On 23 Mar 2004 at 18:21, Dean Ellis wrote: > Hi guys > > Thanks for your websites showing the code for detecting CD Drive Letters. I > don't think it's quite what I'm after. Correct me if I'm wrong, but one will > only tell what type of drive the leter that I type in is, and the other just > provides a list of drive letters to choose from. > > What I am after is some code that I can use so that when I open the db from > the CD Rom in ANY machine, be it Laptop, Desktop, W98, XP yahda yahda yahda, > It determines the CD Drive Letter. This will then enable me to use that > information to create a file path to some media that can then be used by the > Active X Controls, or to view some images. > If you are opening the db from the CD ROM, you don't need to mess about identifying a CD ROM, you just need to identify where the application is. Left$(Currentdb.Name,1) will give you the driveletter that the application is on. Here's the function I use to get the actual directory it is in: Static Function ApplDir() As String Dim strApplDir As String Dim strTemp As String If strApplDir = "" Then strTemp = DBEngine(0)(0).Name strApplDir = Left$(strTemp, InStrRev(strTemp, "\")) End If ApplDir = strApplDir End Function -- Lexacorp Ltd http://www.lexacorp.com.pg Information Technology Consultancy, Software Development,System Support. From dkalsow at yahoo.com Tue Mar 23 05:29:35 2004 From: dkalsow at yahoo.com (Dale Kalsow) Date: Tue, 23 Mar 2004 03:29:35 -0800 (PST) Subject: [AccessD] Creating Web Pages from Access In-Reply-To: <40608590.7960.29EE5B1@localhost> Message-ID: <20040323112935.36604.qmail@web9804.mail.yahoo.com> Good Morning, Does anyone create web pages from within access? I currently have an access form that contains all the master information for a return. I also have a subform on the master form that contains multiple records (the part numbers of the return). When I export the form to a web page the main part is ok but I look the subform. Does anyone know how to create the subform's functionality on a web page? Thanks for any and all help! Dale Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Finance Tax Center - File online. File on time. From stuart at lexacorp.com.pg Tue Mar 23 05:43:55 2004 From: stuart at lexacorp.com.pg (Stuart McLachlan) Date: Tue, 23 Mar 2004 21:43:55 +1000 Subject: [AccessD] Creating Web Pages from Access In-Reply-To: <20040323112935.36604.qmail@web9804.mail.yahoo.com> References: <40608590.7960.29EE5B1@localhost> Message-ID: <4060AF9B.24485.3431F90@localhost> On 23 Mar 2004 at 3:29, Dale Kalsow wrote: > > Does anyone create web pages from within access? I currently have an > access form that contains all the master information for a return. I > also have a subform on the master form that contains multiple records > (the part numbers of the return). When I export the form to a web > page the main part is ok but I look the subform. Does anyone know how > to create the subform's functionality on a web page? > One way is to create a report which contains the information on the form and subform and export that to HTML. (Note that it will be static - the page will be as long as need to dispaly all of the part numbers). -- Lexacorp Ltd http://www.lexacorp.com.pg Information Technology Consultancy, Software Development,System Support. From dkalsow at yahoo.com Tue Mar 23 06:01:08 2004 From: dkalsow at yahoo.com (Dale Kalsow) Date: Tue, 23 Mar 2004 04:01:08 -0800 (PST) Subject: [AccessD] Creating Web Pages from Access In-Reply-To: <4060AF9B.24485.3431F90@localhost> Message-ID: <20040323120108.78273.qmail@web9801.mail.yahoo.com> Stuart, I need it to be like a form because I need the user to be able to edit and update information. Stuart McLachlan wrote: On 23 Mar 2004 at 3:29, Dale Kalsow wrote: > > Does anyone create web pages from within access? I currently have an > access form that contains all the master information for a return. I > also have a subform on the master form that contains multiple records > (the part numbers of the return). When I export the form to a web > page the main part is ok but I look the subform. Does anyone know how > to create the subform's functionality on a web page? > One way is to create a report which contains the information on the form and subform and export that to HTML. (Note that it will be static - the page will be as long as need to dispaly all of the part numbers). -- Lexacorp Ltd http://www.lexacorp.com.pg Information Technology Consultancy, Software Development,System Support. -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Finance Tax Center - File online. File on time. From chris at thecube.net Tue Mar 23 06:16:44 2004 From: chris at thecube.net (chris at thecube.net) Date: Tue, 23 Mar 2004 07:16:44 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Web Pages in Access Message-ID: <5FC98047FE3A413C8074115FF9056B43.MAI@freeparking.com> Dale, Looks like you need to start venturing into ASP, if you cade code using recordsets then ASP is not really that big a step. Let me know if you would like a kick start and/or sample ASP Cheers Chris ----- Original Message ----- From: Dale Kalsow To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Sent: Mon, 22 Mar 2004 12:51:40 -0800 (PST) Subject: [AccessD] Web Pages in Access Does Anyone have experiance with creating web pages through Acess. I have a form that currently works within access. It displays the fields of a table and then has a subform that displays (and allows modifications) all of the parts that go along with the master record. I can export the form to html but loose the subform and have not been able to figure out how to recrate the functionally of the subform. All help is appreciated! Thanks! Dale Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Finance Tax Center - File online. File on time. -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From paul.hartland at fsmail.net Tue Mar 23 06:44:48 2004 From: paul.hartland at fsmail.net (paul.hartland at fsmail.net) Date: Tue, 23 Mar 2004 13:44:48 +0100 (CET) Subject: [AccessD] Web Pages in Access Message-ID: <26981847.1080045888094.JavaMail.www@wwinf3003> Tell you what, I'm just about to start getting into HTML, ASP etc (horrified at the thought, but it has to be done). So if anyone has sample code for a pretty secure logon page that will then direct the user to a menu page if the password is correct etc I would like to see the code, preferably with a simple explanation of how it works. I have found various little bits and pieces on the web but could never get them to work properly. Paul Hartland Message date : Mar 23 2004, 12:34 PM >From : chris at thecube.net To : accessd at databaseadvisors.com Copy to : Subject : Re: [AccessD] Web Pages in Access Dale, Looks like you need to start venturing into ASP, if you cade code using recordsets then ASP is not really that big a step. Let me know if you would like a kick start and/or sample ASP Cheers Chris ----- Original Message ----- From: Dale Kalsow To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Sent: Mon, 22 Mar 2004 12:51:40 -0800 (PST) Subject: [AccessD] Web Pages in Access Does Anyone have experiance with creating web pages through Acess. I have a form that currently works within access. It displays the fields of a table and then has a subform that displays (and allows modifications) all of the parts that go along with the master record. I can export the form to html but loose the subform and have not been able to figure out how to recrate the functionally of the subform. All help is appreciated! Thanks! Dale Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Finance Tax Center - File online. File on time. -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com [ (no filename) (0.2 Kb) ] Freeserve AnyTime - HALF PRICE for the first 3 months - Save ?7.50 a month www.freeserve.com/anytime From accessd667 at yahoo.com Tue Mar 23 07:19:56 2004 From: accessd667 at yahoo.com (S D) Date: Tue, 23 Mar 2004 05:19:56 -0800 (PST) Subject: [AccessD] VBE Error Handler Message-ID: <20040323131956.12049.qmail@web61105.mail.yahoo.com> Hi group, i downloaded the VBE Error Handler dll from www.databaseadvisors written by John Colby. I really love this program....almost. It works great however I want to change the message that the user gets. Is that possible? Thnx in advance. Regards Sander Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Finance Tax Center - File online. File on time. From jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com Tue Mar 23 07:34:43 2004 From: jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com (John W. Colby) Date: Tue, 23 Mar 2004 08:34:43 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] VBE Error Handler In-Reply-To: <20040323131956.12049.qmail@web61105.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: In short, it is not "programmable". The message the user gets is the native Access error plus the function / module name. What did you have in mind? John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of S D Sent: Tuesday, March 23, 2004 8:20 AM To: accessd Subject: [AccessD] VBE Error Handler Hi group, i downloaded the VBE Error Handler dll from www.databaseadvisors written by John Colby. I really love this program....almost. It works great however I want to change the message that the user gets. Is that possible? Thnx in advance. Regards Sander Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Finance Tax Center - File online. File on time. -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From papparuff at comcast.net Tue Mar 23 08:10:33 2004 From: papparuff at comcast.net (papparuff at comcast.net) Date: Tue, 23 Mar 2004 14:10:33 +0000 Subject: [AccessD] VBE Error Handler Message-ID: <032320041410.24387.79f4@comcast.net> You can create your own error constant and then when the error occurs, display your own special error message. Something like this: Private Sub test() Dim i As Integer Dim j As Integer Dim a As Integer ' Error Number is Division by 0 not allowed Const DivBy0 = 11 On Error GoTo test_ERR i = 1 j = 0 a = i / j test_EXIT: Exit Sub test_ERR: If DivBy0 Then MsgBox "You cannot divide by 0" Else MsgBox Error$ End If Resume test_EXIT End Sub -- John V. Ruff ? The Eternal Optimist :-) ?Commit to the Lord whatever you do, and your plans will succeed.? Proverbs 16:3 > In short, it is not "programmable". > > The message the user gets is the native Access error plus the function / > module name. What did you have in mind? > > John W. Colby > www.ColbyConsulting.com > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of S D > Sent: Tuesday, March 23, 2004 8:20 AM > To: accessd > Subject: [AccessD] VBE Error Handler > > > Hi group, > > i downloaded the VBE Error Handler dll from www.databaseadvisors written by > John Colby. I really love this program....almost. > > It works great however I want to change the message that the user gets. Is > that possible? > > Thnx in advance. > > Regards > > Sander > > Do you Yahoo!? > Yahoo! Finance Tax Center - File online. File on time. > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From accessd667 at yahoo.com Tue Mar 23 08:34:05 2004 From: accessd667 at yahoo.com (S D) Date: Tue, 23 Mar 2004 06:34:05 -0800 (PST) Subject: [AccessD] VBE Error Handler In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <20040323143405.62650.qmail@web61107.mail.yahoo.com> We use a VB function to create a standard message. We use this in all (500+) applications. I don't won't to break the line of work. Problem is we enherited a HUGE Access app (250+ tables, 300+ forms, 7(!?!) modules) So we've got the following line in all our error handling: Call GenErr("Switchdatabase.Form_Startscherm", "Form_Load") TIA Sander PS1: according to the programmer of this beast: - 'normalization'? What's that, a snack? - a function is never used more then once - dim a, b, c as string creates 3 strings.... - dim blnError as String blnError = "0" blnError = "1" blnError = "incorrect" aaahhhhrg..... "John W. Colby" wrote: In short, it is not "programmable". The message the user gets is the native Access error plus the function / module name. What did you have in mind? John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of S D Sent: Tuesday, March 23, 2004 8:20 AM To: accessd Subject: [AccessD] VBE Error Handler Hi group, i downloaded the VBE Error Handler dll from www.databaseadvisors written by John Colby. I really love this program....almost. It works great however I want to change the message that the user gets. Is that possible? Thnx in advance. Regards Sander Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Finance Tax Center - File online. File on time. -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Finance Tax Center - File online. File on time. From accessd667 at yahoo.com Tue Mar 23 08:46:14 2004 From: accessd667 at yahoo.com (S D) Date: Tue, 23 Mar 2004 06:46:14 -0800 (PST) Subject: [AccessD] Web Pages in Access In-Reply-To: <26981847.1080045888094.JavaMail.www@wwinf3003> Message-ID: <20040323144614.2293.qmail@web61102.mail.yahoo.com> Paul, is it standard ASP that you want? I've had to deal with the same problem and that's why I started building my own pages for testing and such. I can send them to you off-line if you want. I'm not exactly sure what you did but if you somehow exporterd you're standard Access master-detail form to ASP...I don't think that that will work. ASP doesn't have 'sub-forms' Maybe Access-ASP has. In standard ASP you would build a table using HTML and fill it with a recordset. Then you would have to check how many records you would like to see....create nav buttons...aarhg the horror is getting worse and worse. If need the samples let me know. I believe I use a SQL-Server as data thingy...hmm have to look tonight. Regards, Sander paul.hartland at fsmail.net wrote: Tell you what, I'm just about to start getting into HTML, ASP etc (horrified at the thought, but it has to be done). So if anyone has sample code for a pretty secure logon page that will then direct the user to a menu page if the password is correct etc I would like to see the code, preferably with a simple explanation of how it works. I have found various little bits and pieces on the web but could never get them to work properly. Paul Hartland Message date : Mar 23 2004, 12:34 PM >From : chris at thecube.net To : accessd at databaseadvisors.com Copy to : Subject : Re: [AccessD] Web Pages in Access Dale, Looks like you need to start venturing into ASP, if you cade code using recordsets then ASP is not really that big a step. Let me know if you would like a kick start and/or sample ASP Cheers Chris ----- Original Message ----- From: Dale Kalsow To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Sent: Mon, 22 Mar 2004 12:51:40 -0800 (PST) Subject: [AccessD] Web Pages in Access Does Anyone have experiance with creating web pages through Acess. I have a form that currently works within access. It displays the fields of a table and then has a subform that displays (and allows modifications) all of the parts that go along with the master record. I can export the form to html but loose the subform and have not been able to figure out how to recrate the functionally of the subform. All help is appreciated! Thanks! Dale Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Finance Tax Center - File online. File on time. -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com [ (no filename) (0.2 Kb) ] Freeserve AnyTime - HALF PRICE for the first 3 months - Save ?7.50 a month www.freeserve.com/anytime -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Finance Tax Center - File online. File on time. From jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com Tue Mar 23 08:50:23 2004 From: jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com (John W. Colby) Date: Tue, 23 Mar 2004 09:50:23 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] VBE Error Handler In-Reply-To: <20040323143405.62650.qmail@web61107.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: LOL to the whole message!!! In particular the PS1: I feel for you, but with any luck it will generate prodigious revenue as you clean it up. The error handler wizard is in VB and is under the care of Seth Galitzer. This sounds like a very custom mod which you would probably have to make. John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of S D Sent: Tuesday, March 23, 2004 9:34 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] VBE Error Handler We use a VB function to create a standard message. We use this in all (500+) applications. I don't won't to break the line of work. Problem is we enherited a HUGE Access app (250+ tables, 300+ forms, 7(!?!) modules) So we've got the following line in all our error handling: Call GenErr("Switchdatabase.Form_Startscherm", "Form_Load") TIA Sander PS1: according to the programmer of this beast: - 'normalization'? What's that, a snack? - a function is never used more then once - dim a, b, c as string creates 3 strings.... - dim blnError as String blnError = "0" blnError = "1" blnError = "incorrect" aaahhhhrg..... "John W. Colby" wrote: In short, it is not "programmable". The message the user gets is the native Access error plus the function / module name. What did you have in mind? John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of S D Sent: Tuesday, March 23, 2004 8:20 AM To: accessd Subject: [AccessD] VBE Error Handler Hi group, i downloaded the VBE Error Handler dll from www.databaseadvisors written by John Colby. I really love this program....almost. It works great however I want to change the message that the user gets. Is that possible? Thnx in advance. Regards Sander Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Finance Tax Center - File online. File on time. -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Finance Tax Center - File online. File on time. -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From paul.hartland at fsmail.net Tue Mar 23 08:55:45 2004 From: paul.hartland at fsmail.net (paul.hartland at fsmail.net) Date: Tue, 23 Mar 2004 15:55:45 +0100 (CET) Subject: [AccessD] Web Pages in Access Message-ID: <23218488.1080053745940.JavaMail.www@wwinf3006> Sander, The original message was from Dale, I replied with my question of sample code for ASP logon etc which checks a username and password from an Access or SQL Server database. I?m still after any sample code with a brief explanation of how it all works for an ASP logon page. Paul Message date : Mar 23 2004, 02:48 PM >From : "S D" To : "Access Developers discussion and problem solving" Copy to : Subject : Re: Re: [AccessD] Web Pages in Access Paul, is it standard ASP that you want? I've had to deal with the same problem and that's why I started building my own pages for testing and such. I can send them to you off-line if you want. I'm not exactly sure what you did but if you somehow exporterd you're standard Access master-detail form to ASP...I don't think that that will work. ASP doesn't have 'sub-forms' Maybe Access-ASP has. In standard ASP you would build a table using HTML and fill it with a recordset. Then you would have to check how many records you would like to see....create nav buttons...aarhg the horror is getting worse and worse. If need the samples let me know. I believe I use a SQL-Server as data thingy...hmm have to look tonight. Regards, Sander paul.hartland at fsmail.net wrote: Tell you what, I'm just about to start getting into HTML, ASP etc (horrified at the thought, but it has to be done). So if anyone has sample code for a pretty secure logon page that will then direct the user to a menu page if the password is correct etc I would like to see the code, preferably with a simple explanation of how it works. I have found various little bits and pieces on the web but could never get them to work properly. Paul Hartland Message date : Mar 23 2004, 12:34 PM >From : chris at thecube.net To : accessd at databaseadvisors.com Copy to : Subject : Re: [AccessD] Web Pages in Access Dale, Looks like you need to start venturing into ASP, if you cade code using recordsets then ASP is not really that big a step. Let me know if you would like a kick start and/or sample ASP Cheers Chris ----- Original Message ----- From: Dale Kalsow To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Sent: Mon, 22 Mar 2004 12:51:40 -0800 (PST) Subject: [AccessD] Web Pages in Access Does Anyone have experiance with creating web pages through Acess. I have a form that currently works within access. It displays the fields of a table and then has a subform that displays (and allows modifications) all of the parts that go along with the master record. I can export the form to html but loose the subform and have not been able to figure out how to recrate the functionally of the subform. All help is appreciated! Thanks! Dale Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Finance Tax Center - File online. File on time. -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com [ (no filename) (0.2 Kb) ] Freeserve AnyTime - HALF PRICE for the first 3 months - Save ?7.50 a month www.freeserve.com/anytime -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Finance Tax Center - File online. File on time. -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com Freeserve AnyTime - HALF PRICE for the first 3 months - Save ?7.50 a month www.freeserve.com/anytime From lister at actuarial-files.com Tue Mar 23 09:28:14 2004 From: lister at actuarial-files.com (Ralf Lister) Date: Tue, 23 Mar 2004 11:28:14 -0400 Subject: [AccessD] Web Pages in Access References: <26981847.1080045888094.JavaMail.www@wwinf3003> Message-ID: <003901c410eb$7a2ec160$e4976bce@ralf> Hello Paul, If you know German, here is a very good and secure pass-check (with a good explanation): 1. Log on to aspheute.com 2. Select "ASP-Grundlagen" from the Menue 3. Look for the article "Session Variablen - Verwendung und Stolpersteine" (published 5.5.2000) I have a very simple pass-check handy, but it's VERY simple. However, I send it to you if you want me to. Saludos desde Bolivia Ralf ----- Original Message ----- From: To: "Access Developers discussion and problem solving" Sent: Tuesday, March 23, 2004 8:44 AM Subject: Re: Re: [AccessD] Web Pages in Access Tell you what, I'm just about to start getting into HTML, ASP etc (horrified at the thought, but it has to be done). So if anyone has sample code for a pretty secure logon page that will then direct the user to a menu page if the password is correct etc I would like to see the code, preferably with a simple explanation of how it works. I have found various little bits and pieces on the web but could never get them to work properly. Paul Hartland Message date : Mar 23 2004, 12:34 PM >From : chris at thecube.net To : accessd at databaseadvisors.com Copy to : Subject : Re: [AccessD] Web Pages in Access Dale, Looks like you need to start venturing into ASP, if you cade code using recordsets then ASP is not really that big a step. Let me know if you would like a kick start and/or sample ASP Cheers Chris ----- Original Message ----- From: Dale Kalsow To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Sent: Mon, 22 Mar 2004 12:51:40 -0800 (PST) Subject: [AccessD] Web Pages in Access Does Anyone have experiance with creating web pages through Acess. I have a form that currently works within access. It displays the fields of a table and then has a subform that displays (and allows modifications) all of the parts that go along with the master record. I can export the form to html but loose the subform and have not been able to figure out how to recrate the functionally of the subform. All help is appreciated! Thanks! Dale Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Finance Tax Center - File online. File on time. -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com [ (no filename) (0.2 Kb) ] Freeserve AnyTime - HALF PRICE for the first 3 months - Save ?7.50 a month www.freeserve.com/anytime -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From dwaters at usinternet.com Tue Mar 23 10:41:09 2004 From: dwaters at usinternet.com (Dan Waters) Date: Tue, 23 Mar 2004 10:41:09 -0600 Subject: [AccessD] Synchronize with Palm or PocketPC In-Reply-To: <31129060.1080031531353.JavaMail.root@sniper2.marix.com> Message-ID: <000a01c410f5$a52eb4b0$de1811d8@DanWaters> Carlos, Now 3 ways to investigate! Thanks! Dan -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Carlos Alberto Alves Sent: Tuesday, March 23, 2004 2:39 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Synchronize with Palm or PocketPC On Fri, 19 Mar 2004 14:04:02 -0600, Dan Waters wrote: > Hello everyone, > > > > I have a client where a possibly good solution would be to enter > information > into a PDA and then synchronize it with an Access app once per day. > > > > Can anyone point me in a direction to learn more about this? Anyone have > any good/lousy experiences? > > > > Thanks! > > Dan Waters > Take a look at http://www.syware.com/ HTH, -- ****************************** * Carlos Alberto Alves * * Child Neurologist * * Systems Analyst/Programmer * * Rio de Janeiro, Brazil * * mailto:caa at highway.com.br * ****************************** -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From bchacc at san.rr.com Tue Mar 23 10:59:56 2004 From: bchacc at san.rr.com (Rocky Smolin - Beach Access Software) Date: Tue, 23 Mar 2004 08:59:56 -0800 Subject: [AccessD] Form Resizing Message-ID: <00bb01c410f8$4544b100$6601a8c0@HAL9002> Dear List: I have an app which was developed in A97 on a 640x480 screen. I used the adhScaleForm code from the A97 ADH to scale the forms on screens with higher resolutions. Worked okay with some problems. The app is now in A2K and to try to resolve some of the form resizing problems I'm trying to move to the FormResize code in the A2K ADH. I put the following code into the On_Open event of a test form: Set frmResize = New FormResize Set frmResize.Form = Me Call frmResize.SetDesignCoords(640, 480, 96, 96) frmResize.ScaleForm = True frmResize.IsMaximized = True frmResize.ScaleControls = scYes frmResize.ScaleFonts = True frmResize.ScaleColumns = True and I can see the form resize briefly, then it shrinks back to its unscaled appurtenance. Does anyone have any experience with this FormResize and know why the resizing is not 'sticking'? MTIA, is From rmoore at comtechpst.com Tue Mar 23 11:16:08 2004 From: rmoore at comtechpst.com (Ron Moore) Date: Tue, 23 Mar 2004 12:16:08 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] 'Heirarchal Recursion': Message-ID: <001101c410fa$891c53e0$6514a8c0@Comtech.Comtechpst.com> I've inherited a 15MB engineering _fe A2K DB with single level product structures for manufactured assemblies. I need to create an 'indentured' multi-level bill of material (BOM), presumably using recursion. I used to have an article from 'Access-VB-SQL' mag some time back called 'Heirarchal Recursion' (I think) but can't locate it now. Any ideas? Best Sources on the web? TIA, Ron Moore Sr. Database Administrator Comtech PST Corp. Melville, NY www.comtechpst.com From DWUTKA at marlow.com Tue Mar 23 11:29:28 2004 From: DWUTKA at marlow.com (DWUTKA at marlow.com) Date: Tue, 23 Mar 2004 11:29:28 -0600 Subject: [AccessD] Web Pages in Access Message-ID: <2F8793082E00D4119A1700B0D0216BF8022279A1@main2.marlow.com> pretty secure logon page? Just set the security on the webserver. Much quicker, and definitely more secure. Drew -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of paul.hartland at fsmail.net Sent: Tuesday, March 23, 2004 6:45 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: Re: [AccessD] Web Pages in Access Tell you what, I'm just about to start getting into HTML, ASP etc (horrified at the thought, but it has to be done). So if anyone has sample code for a pretty secure logon page that will then direct the user to a menu page if the password is correct etc I would like to see the code, preferably with a simple explanation of how it works. I have found various little bits and pieces on the web but could never get them to work properly. Paul Hartland Message date : Mar 23 2004, 12:34 PM >From : chris at thecube.net To : accessd at databaseadvisors.com Copy to : Subject : Re: [AccessD] Web Pages in Access Dale, Looks like you need to start venturing into ASP, if you cade code using recordsets then ASP is not really that big a step. Let me know if you would like a kick start and/or sample ASP Cheers Chris ----- Original Message ----- From: Dale Kalsow To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Sent: Mon, 22 Mar 2004 12:51:40 -0800 (PST) Subject: [AccessD] Web Pages in Access Does Anyone have experiance with creating web pages through Acess. I have a form that currently works within access. It displays the fields of a table and then has a subform that displays (and allows modifications) all of the parts that go along with the master record. I can export the form to html but loose the subform and have not been able to figure out how to recrate the functionally of the subform. All help is appreciated! Thanks! Dale Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Finance Tax Center - File online. File on time. -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com [ (no filename) (0.2 Kb) ] Freeserve AnyTime - HALF PRICE for the first 3 months - Save ?7.50 a month www.freeserve.com/anytime -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From bchacc at san.rr.com Tue Mar 23 11:31:04 2004 From: bchacc at san.rr.com (Rocky Smolin - Beach Access Software) Date: Tue, 23 Mar 2004 09:31:04 -0800 Subject: [AccessD] 'Heirarchal Recursion': References: <001101c410fa$891c53e0$6514a8c0@Comtech.Comtechpst.com> Message-ID: <00da01c410fc$9e8b0350$6601a8c0@HAL9002> Ron: E-Z-MRP's bill of materials processor handles multi-level bills. Would this www.e-z-mrp.com be an option? I can give you system to evaluate. Also convert the existing data so you've got something familiar to look at. Regards, Rocky Smolin Beach Access Software http://www.e-z-mrp.com ----- Original Message ----- From: "Ron Moore" To: "'Access Developers discussion and problem solving'" Sent: Tuesday, March 23, 2004 9:16 AM Subject: [AccessD] 'Heirarchal Recursion': > I've inherited a 15MB engineering _fe A2K DB with single level product > structures for manufactured assemblies. I need to create an > 'indentured' multi-level bill of material (BOM), presumably using > recursion. I used to have an article from 'Access-VB-SQL' mag some time > back called 'Heirarchal Recursion' (I think) but can't locate it now. > > Any ideas? Best Sources on the web? > TIA, > Ron Moore > Sr. Database Administrator > Comtech PST Corp. > Melville, NY > www.comtechpst.com > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > From gustav at cactus.dk Tue Mar 23 11:36:10 2004 From: gustav at cactus.dk (Gustav Brock) Date: Tue, 23 Mar 2004 18:36:10 +0100 Subject: [AccessD] Hierachical Recursion (was: 'Heirarchal Recursion') In-Reply-To: <001101c410fa$891c53e0$6514a8c0@Comtech.Comtechpst.com> References: <001101c410fa$891c53e0$6514a8c0@Comtech.Comtechpst.com> Message-ID: <11237423482.20040323183610@cactus.dk> Hi Ron Look up "Tree shaped reports" in the archives from Feb. 2002 for a method running at extreme speed ... /gustav > I've inherited a 15MB engineering _fe A2K DB with single level product > structures for manufactured assemblies. I need to create an > 'indentured' multi-level bill of material (BOM), presumably using > recursion. I used to have an article from 'Access-VB-SQL' mag some time > back called 'Heirarchal Recursion' (I think) but can't locate it now. > Any ideas? Best Sources on the web? > TIA, > Ron Moore > Sr. Database Administrator > Comtech PST Corp. > Melville, NY > www.comtechpst.com From rmoore at comtechpst.com Tue Mar 23 11:42:38 2004 From: rmoore at comtechpst.com (Ron Moore) Date: Tue, 23 Mar 2004 12:42:38 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] 'Heirarchal Recursion': In-Reply-To: <00da01c410fc$9e8b0350$6601a8c0@HAL9002> Message-ID: <001601c410fe$3bfe0fa0$6514a8c0@Comtech.Comtechpst.com> Rocky, I'm aware of your fine looking product (congrats on your recent launch). MRP is not in the near future. Inventories are currently in PeachTree which is DDE only, not ODBC. I simply need multi-level bills reporting capability within two days! Thanks, Ron -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Rocky Smolin - Beach Access Software Sent: Tuesday, March 23, 2004 12:31 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] 'Heirarchal Recursion': Ron: E-Z-MRP's bill of materials processor handles multi-level bills. Would this www.e-z-mrp.com be an option? I can give you system to evaluate. Also convert the existing data so you've got something familiar to look at. Regards, Rocky Smolin Beach Access Software http://www.e-z-mrp.com ----- Original Message ----- From: "Ron Moore" To: "'Access Developers discussion and problem solving'" Sent: Tuesday, March 23, 2004 9:16 AM Subject: [AccessD] 'Heirarchal Recursion': > I've inherited a 15MB engineering _fe A2K DB with single level product > structures for manufactured assemblies. I need to create an > 'indentured' multi-level bill of material (BOM), presumably using > recursion. I used to have an article from 'Access-VB-SQL' mag some > time back called 'Heirarchal Recursion' (I think) but can't locate it > now. > > Any ideas? Best Sources on the web? > TIA, > Ron Moore > Sr. Database Administrator > Comtech PST Corp. > Melville, NY > www.comtechpst.com > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From rmoore at comtechpst.com Tue Mar 23 11:49:59 2004 From: rmoore at comtechpst.com (Ron Moore) Date: Tue, 23 Mar 2004 12:49:59 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Hierachical Recursion (was: 'Heirarchal Recursion') In-Reply-To: <11237423482.20040323183610@cactus.dk> Message-ID: <001701c410ff$42b99520$6514a8c0@Comtech.Comtechpst.com> Thanks Gustav, and to think I even looked up 'Heirarchal' in the dictionary. :-) Do I get half credit for it being a word? And, is it just me, or is the http://www.databaseadvisors.com site down at the moment? Thanks again, Ron -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Gustav Brock Sent: Tuesday, March 23, 2004 12:36 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Hierachical Recursion (was: 'Heirarchal Recursion') Hi Ron Look up "Tree shaped reports" in the archives from Feb. 2002 for a method running at extreme speed ... /gustav > I've inherited a 15MB engineering _fe A2K DB with single level product > structures for manufactured assemblies. I need to create an > 'indentured' multi-level bill of material (BOM), presumably using > recursion. I used to have an article from 'Access-VB-SQL' mag some > time back called 'Heirarchal Recursion' (I think) but can't locate it > now. > Any ideas? Best Sources on the web? > TIA, > Ron Moore > Sr. Database Administrator > Comtech PST Corp. > Melville, NY > www.comtechpst.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From bchacc at san.rr.com Tue Mar 23 11:58:13 2004 From: bchacc at san.rr.com (Rocky Smolin - Beach Access Software) Date: Tue, 23 Mar 2004 09:58:13 -0800 Subject: [AccessD] 'Heirarchal Recursion': References: <001601c410fe$3bfe0fa0$6514a8c0@Comtech.Comtechpst.com> Message-ID: <00f201c41100$69642720$6601a8c0@HAL9002> Ron: Well, you don't have to use all of the system. The Bill of Materials runs by itself with no other requirements. I've got a user in Florida running about 15 seats - using just the BOM part of the system. Have been for about 5 years. (Could give you his name and number for a reference if you want.). They've got an ERP system for all their other manufacturing. So you could definitely be up and running by Thursday. BOM reporting in E-Z-MRP include single level and indented, costed and uncosted, summary bills, and where-used. Manufacturer's cross references and component reference data supported as well as effective and obsolete dates on all the components and phantom or blow-through assemblies. If there's interest we should probably move this discussion off-line. Contact me at bchacc at san.rr.com. Best, Rocky Smolin Beach Access Software http://www.e-z-mrp.com ----- Original Message ----- From: "Ron Moore" To: "'Access Developers discussion and problem solving'" Sent: Tuesday, March 23, 2004 9:42 AM Subject: RE: [AccessD] 'Heirarchal Recursion': > Rocky, I'm aware of your fine looking product (congrats on your recent > launch). MRP is not in the near future. Inventories are currently in > PeachTree which is DDE only, not ODBC. I simply need multi-level bills > reporting capability within two days! > > Thanks, > Ron > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Rocky Smolin > - Beach Access Software > Sent: Tuesday, March 23, 2004 12:31 PM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: Re: [AccessD] 'Heirarchal Recursion': > > > Ron: > > E-Z-MRP's bill of materials processor handles multi-level bills. Would > this www.e-z-mrp.com be an option? I can give you system to evaluate. > Also convert the existing data so you've got something familiar to look > at. > > Regards, > > > > Rocky Smolin > Beach Access Software > http://www.e-z-mrp.com > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Ron Moore" > To: "'Access Developers discussion and problem solving'" > > Sent: Tuesday, March 23, 2004 9:16 AM > Subject: [AccessD] 'Heirarchal Recursion': > > > > I've inherited a 15MB engineering _fe A2K DB with single level product > > > structures for manufactured assemblies. I need to create an > > 'indentured' multi-level bill of material (BOM), presumably using > > recursion. I used to have an article from 'Access-VB-SQL' mag some > > time back called 'Heirarchal Recursion' (I think) but can't locate it > > now. > > > > Any ideas? Best Sources on the web? > > TIA, > > Ron Moore > > Sr. Database Administrator > > Comtech PST Corp. > > Melville, NY > > www.comtechpst.com > > -- > > _______________________________________________ > > AccessD mailing list > > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > From artful at rogers.com Tue Mar 23 15:05:17 2004 From: artful at rogers.com (Arthur Fuller) Date: Tue, 23 Mar 2004 13:05:17 -0800 Subject: [AccessD] Dir Size Routine Message-ID: <000001c4111a$8d2fabb0$6501a8c0@rock> Anybody got a routine to walk the dir tree from a spefied location and report the accumulated size of all files in the given dir (+subdir), at each level? I.e. ? DirSize( "d:\docs" ) d:\docs 1gb d:\docs\a .3gb d:\docs\b .5gb d:\docs\b\1 .2gb TIA, Arthur From rbgajewski at adelphia.net Tue Mar 23 12:17:42 2004 From: rbgajewski at adelphia.net (Bob Gajewski) Date: Tue, 23 Mar 2004 13:17:42 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Dir Size Routine In-Reply-To: <000001c4111a$8d2fabb0$6501a8c0@rock> Message-ID: Arthur Do you need to run this through Access, or would a stand-alone program work? Bob Gajewski -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Arthur Fuller Sent: Tuesday, March 23, 2004 16:05 To: AccessD Subject: [AccessD] Dir Size Routine Anybody got a routine to walk the dir tree from a spefied location and report the accumulated size of all files in the given dir (+subdir), at each level? I.e. ? DirSize( "d:\docs" ) d:\docs 1gb d:\docs\a .3gb d:\docs\b .5gb d:\docs\b\1 .2gb TIA, Arthur -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From John.Clark at niagaracounty.com Tue Mar 23 12:54:54 2004 From: John.Clark at niagaracounty.com (John Clark) Date: Tue, 23 Mar 2004 13:54:54 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Not enough space on disk. Message-ID: I suspected you might have Novell. I help to administer our Novell network, along with IP telephony and Access programming, and I get asked to increase a user's space restrictions quite often--especially when one of our techs go to the PC and remain logged in as the user. Take care! John W Clark >>> ggonzalez at cccis.com 3/22/2004 3:05:04 PM >>> Yes, Novel is the NOS. It seems that is the problem. Even though I was trying to access local databases the security file that I use is on the network. when I changed the security file locally everything worked fine, I then requested more space on the network and all worked there also. Thanks to everyone for their help. "John Clark" .com> cc: Sent by: Subject: Re: [AccessD] Not enough space on disk. accessd-bounces at databasea dvisors.com 03/22/2004 12:35 PM Please respond to Access Developers discussion and problem solving Are you running on a network at all? If so, what NOS? And, if so, are you logged in as yourself, on the other PCs? >>> ggonzalez at cccis.com 3/22/2004 1:27:01 PM >>> I have tried rebooting and several of the options in the Microsoft knowledge base to no avail. Thanks |---------+------------------------------------> | | Francisco H Tapia | | | | | | Sent by: | | | accessd-bounces at databasea| | | dvisors.com | | | | | | | | | 03/22/2004 12:22 PM | | | Please respond to Access | | | Developers discussion and| | | problem solving | |---------+------------------------------------> >---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------| | | | To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving | | cc: | | Subject: Re: [AccessD] Not enough space on disk. | >---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------| try a reboot like suggested by Gary Kjos, additonally what OS is this running on? win95/98/ME/nt/2k/xp? ggonzalez at cccis.com wrote: > > >I have 3 Gig and 256 of ram > > > > > >How much hdd space is available on your C: for the computer that gets >this error?, how much ram does it have? > > >ggonzalez at cccis.com wrote: > > > >>I am gettin getting this error when I try to open a database on my >>computer. I have plenty od disk space available though. When I go to >>another computer and access the same database I have no problem. >> >>Does anybody have any sugestions why this is happening. >> >>Thanks, Gumaro >> >> >> >> >> > > > > <>-- -Francisco -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From ssharkins at bellsouth.net Tue Mar 23 13:20:45 2004 From: ssharkins at bellsouth.net (Susan Harkins) Date: Tue, 23 Mar 2004 14:20:45 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] OT: SQL Server Reporting Services Message-ID: <20040323192042.ODJK1709.imf20aec.mail.bellsouth.net@SUSANONE> How compatiable is SQL Server Reporting Services with Access -- can you save an Access report to this format? Susan H. From lists at theopg.com Tue Mar 23 13:31:41 2004 From: lists at theopg.com (MarkH) Date: Tue, 23 Mar 2004 19:31:41 -0000 Subject: [AccessD] [OT] Slightly... Printing problems with Office XP In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <001301c4110d$78325cb0$270b6bd5@netboxxp> Hello all... The machines where I work have recently been upgraded to XP (office and Windows) and we are getting a couple of weird problems. First... In some Word documents, that I create from code in Access (by merging data with tamplates using ADO), the boarder of 'some' tables dissappears when the user first saves the document. The document is purely formatted data, there is no code or macros etc. in the final .doc file. This was not an issue with Office 97... Secondly, when printing Visio diagrams that are embedded in Word documents, the text on the diagram does not get printed unless it is formatted to another colour (light grey comes out as black and so does white???). We have a number of different printers and they all get the same results... I know this is all a bit vague, but if anyone has any ideas I'd very much like to hear them. Chears Mark From gustav at cactus.dk Tue Mar 23 13:34:07 2004 From: gustav at cactus.dk (Gustav Brock) Date: Tue, 23 Mar 2004 20:34:07 +0100 Subject: [AccessD] OT: SQL Server Reporting Services In-Reply-To: <20040323192042.ODJK1709.imf20aec.mail.bellsouth.net@SUSANONE> References: <20040323192042.ODJK1709.imf20aec.mail.bellsouth.net@SUSANONE> Message-ID: <7044500388.20040323203407@cactus.dk> Hi Susan I have no idea. But Mike Gunderloy recently wrote he had been playing around with this ... /gustav > How compatiable is SQL Server Reporting Services with Access -- can you save > an Access report to this format? > Susan H. From ssharkins at bellsouth.net Tue Mar 23 13:49:53 2004 From: ssharkins at bellsouth.net (Susan Harkins) Date: Tue, 23 Mar 2004 14:49:53 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] OT: SQL Server Reporting Services In-Reply-To: <7044500388.20040323203407@cactus.dk> Message-ID: <20040323194950.ITRY1715.imf16aec.mail.bellsouth.net@SUSANONE> Yeah, already asked, already replied -- he had just what I needed. ;) Susan H. Hi Susan I have no idea. But Mike Gunderloy recently wrote he had been playing around with this ... /gustav From mwp.reid at qub.ac.uk Tue Mar 23 13:45:10 2004 From: mwp.reid at qub.ac.uk (Martin Reid) Date: Tue, 23 Mar 2004 19:45:10 -0000 Subject: [AccessD] OT: SQL Server Reporting Services References: <20040323192042.ODJK1709.imf20aec.mail.bellsouth.net@SUSANONE> Message-ID: <000201c41110$bfbf49f0$1b02a8c0@MARTINREID> Just looking it up I see you can have a custom data source and it works with OLEDB so why not. I was on the beta but never tried it with Access. But I dont think you would be able to save an access report to it. Its not a format but a group of technologies. Sorry if this is late but our email is down. still a bit flaky as we had a DOS attack for the last two days. Martin ----- Original Message ----- From: "Susan Harkins" To: "'Access Developers discussion and problem solving'" Sent: Tuesday, March 23, 2004 7:20 PM Subject: [AccessD] OT: SQL Server Reporting Services > How compatiable is SQL Server Reporting Services with Access -- can you save > an Access report to this format? > > Susan H. > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > From mwp.reid at qub.ac.uk Tue Mar 23 13:47:56 2004 From: mwp.reid at qub.ac.uk (Martin Reid) Date: Tue, 23 Mar 2004 19:47:56 -0000 Subject: [AccessD] OT: SQL Server Reporting Services References: <20040323192042.ODJK1709.imf20aec.mail.bellsouth.net@SUSANONE> Message-ID: <000301c41110$c0e6da00$1b02a8c0@MARTINREID> Just out of interest I will give it a go. WIll try either this evenign or tomorrow. Have some work to do first. Martin ----- Original Message ----- From: "Susan Harkins" To: "'Access Developers discussion and problem solving'" Sent: Tuesday, March 23, 2004 7:20 PM Subject: [AccessD] OT: SQL Server Reporting Services > How compatiable is SQL Server Reporting Services with Access -- can you save > an Access report to this format? > > Susan H. > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > From mwp.reid at qub.ac.uk Tue Mar 23 14:05:01 2004 From: mwp.reid at qub.ac.uk (Martin Reid) Date: Tue, 23 Mar 2004 20:05:01 -0000 Subject: [AccessD] OT: SQL Server Reporting Services References: <20040323194950.ITRY1715.imf16aec.mail.bellsouth.net@SUSANONE> Message-ID: <004d01c41112$21e44cb0$1b02a8c0@MARTINREID> Well save me some time. What did he say?? Martin ----- Original Message ----- From: "Susan Harkins" To: "'Access Developers discussion and problem solving'" Sent: Tuesday, March 23, 2004 7:49 PM Subject: RE: [AccessD] OT: SQL Server Reporting Services > Yeah, already asked, already replied -- he had just what I needed. ;) > > Susan H. > > Hi Susan > > I have no idea. > But Mike Gunderloy recently wrote he had been playing around with this ... > > /gustav > > > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > From jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com Tue Mar 23 14:07:44 2004 From: jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com (John W. Colby) Date: Tue, 23 Mar 2004 15:07:44 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] determining the datatype of a bound control Message-ID: I currently determine the data type of the data that a control is displaying by the following code: Dim strCtlSrc As String Dim rst As DAO.Recordset Dim intType As Integer strCtlSrc = txtDOB.ControlSource Set rst = Me.RecordsetClone intType = rst.Fields(strCtlSrc).Type Is there a similar method of getting at this from ADO? John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com From Bryan_Carbonnell at cbc.ca Tue Mar 23 14:17:28 2004 From: Bryan_Carbonnell at cbc.ca (Bryan Carbonnell) Date: Tue, 23 Mar 2004 15:17:28 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Bind Data Entry Form to Table Message-ID: Is there a downside to binding a Data Entry Only Form to a table instead of a query? I have a form (subform of an unbound form actually) that will be used strictly for Data Entry and I was thinking of binding it to the table directly instead of through a query. The only downside that I can think of is that I won't be able to sort the recordsource, but since its DE only, that doesn't matter. Is there anyreason I shouldn't do it like this? Bryan Carbonnell bryan_carbonnell at cbc.ca From martyconnelly at shaw.ca Tue Mar 23 14:48:03 2004 From: martyconnelly at shaw.ca (MartyConnelly) Date: Tue, 23 Mar 2004 12:48:03 -0800 Subject: [AccessD] Dir Size Routine References: <000001c4111a$8d2fabb0$6501a8c0@rock> Message-ID: <4060A283.1010304@shaw.ca> I use this free utility I-Disk No docs but intuiative .I believe it gives a printed report. http://downloads-zdnet.com.com/3000-2248-10188280.html?tag=lst-0-8 Arthur Fuller wrote: >Anybody got a routine to walk the dir tree from a spefied location and >report the accumulated size of all files in the given dir (+subdir), at >each level? > >I.e. > >? DirSize( "d:\docs" ) > >d:\docs 1gb >d:\docs\a .3gb >d:\docs\b .5gb >d:\docs\b\1 .2gb > >TIA, >Arthur > > > -- Marty Connelly Victoria, B.C. Canada From jeffrey.demulling at usbank.com Tue Mar 23 14:51:38 2004 From: jeffrey.demulling at usbank.com (jeffrey.demulling at usbank.com) Date: Tue, 23 Mar 2004 14:51:38 -0600 Subject: [AccessD] Create a Lotus Notes HotSpot via VBA Code Message-ID: Does anyone know how to create a Lotus Notes HotSpot via VBA? I am putting together a routine that creates messages and sends them via email. However I need to include hotspots on some of them and on other no. TIA Jeff From martyconnelly at shaw.ca Tue Mar 23 14:54:26 2004 From: martyconnelly at shaw.ca (MartyConnelly) Date: Tue, 23 Mar 2004 12:54:26 -0800 Subject: [AccessD] OT: SQL Server Reporting Services References: <20040323192042.ODJK1709.imf20aec.mail.bellsouth.net@SUSANONE> Message-ID: <4060A402.1030900@shaw.ca> How to import reports from Microsoft Access to Reporting Services http://support.microsoft.com/?kbid=834306 Need at least Access 2002 and some features not supported. Susan Harkins wrote: >How compatiable is SQL Server Reporting Services with Access -- can you save >an Access report to this format? > >Susan H. > > -- Marty Connelly Victoria, B.C. Canada From ssharkins at bellsouth.net Tue Mar 23 15:36:27 2004 From: ssharkins at bellsouth.net (Susan Harkins) Date: Tue, 23 Mar 2004 16:36:27 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] OT: SQL Server Reporting Services In-Reply-To: <004d01c41112$21e44cb0$1b02a8c0@MARTINREID> Message-ID: <20040323213624.OSVA17649.imf25aec.mail.bellsouth.net@SUSANONE> You need the full SQL Server license and you have to import all the Access reports, you can't just import one at a time as needed -- so if you can live with those two conditions, it's OK, but for what I'm doing, I don't see any reason to venture into it beyond learning why an Access user shouldn't bother with it. :) Thanks for looking. Susan H. Well save me some time. What did he say?? From jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com Tue Mar 23 15:41:12 2004 From: jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com (John W. Colby) Date: Tue, 23 Mar 2004 16:41:12 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Using a framework with unbound forms Message-ID: Someone was asking the other day whether the framework could be used with an unbound form. The answer of course is yes, but the fact that a form is bound allows us to do a ton of things at the framework level that might not be possible (or easy) using an unbound form. For example the lecture I am working on now demonstrates using the framework to automatically apply date formatting to a text box control using Sysvars to turn on/off using the Framework Specified format and another SysVar to specify the format itself. In order to accomplish this, I get the recordset clone, then get the datatype of the field the control is bound to. Using this I can know when a control is displaying a date, and therefore that I need to use Sysvars to decide whether to apply a format / mask and what the format / mask should be. BTW I can do the same thing for currency, floating point numbers and anything else where you would use a format / mask for the data entry. Some things such as a zip code or a phone number would require "manual" setup anyway since there is no such datatype, it is all text. If a form is unbound, I can certainly do the same thing, however we will need a method for the control class to TELL the control that it is going to be displaying a date value. I would then have to call this setup method in the form's Open event for any control that will display a date (to set the format string) or allow the user to enter a date (to set the mask if any). Personally I hate data entry date masks but that is another story. If any of the unholy unbounders out there are watching this discussion and want to work with me to build unbound usability into the framework please contact me offline. I will even include such code in these lectures. Anyway, look for the next lecture where I demo setting date masks / formats using the SysVars. John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com From mwp.reid at qub.ac.uk Tue Mar 23 15:47:30 2004 From: mwp.reid at qub.ac.uk (Martin Reid) Date: Tue, 23 Mar 2004 21:47:30 -0000 Subject: [AccessD] OT: SQL Server Reporting Services References: <20040323213624.OSVA17649.imf25aec.mail.bellsouth.net@SUSANONE> Message-ID: <000901c41120$72996e20$1b02a8c0@MARTINREID> You also need Visual Studio 2003 .NET. Lot of software for an Access consultant to go out and buy for this. We are using it in work for a small number of projects as we begin to move away from Ingres towards a large SQL Server develoenvironment. Martin ----- Original Message ----- From: "Susan Harkins" To: "'Access Developers discussion and problem solving'" Sent: Tuesday, March 23, 2004 9:36 PM Subject: RE: [AccessD] OT: SQL Server Reporting Services > You need the full SQL Server license and you have to import all the Access > reports, you can't just import one at a time as needed -- so if you can live > with those two conditions, it's OK, but for what I'm doing, I don't see any > reason to venture into it beyond learning why an Access user shouldn't > bother with it. :) > > Thanks for looking. > > Susan H. > > Well save me some time. What did he say?? > > > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > From mwp.reid at qub.ac.uk Tue Mar 23 15:58:02 2004 From: mwp.reid at qub.ac.uk (Martin Reid) Date: Tue, 23 Mar 2004 21:58:02 -0000 Subject: [AccessD] OT: Migration to SQL Server References: <20040323213624.OSVA17649.imf25aec.mail.bellsouth.net@SUSANONE> Message-ID: <005101c41121$eaed9c10$1b02a8c0@MARTINREID> Anyone done any work migrating SEVERAL Access dbs to a single instance of SQL Server?? Particulary interested in any problems this caused etc etc Maybe a pointer to things to come. I have been asked to look at several areas around this subject including building .NET Front Ends to migrated dbs. Martin From Mark.Mitsules at ngc.com Tue Mar 23 15:37:28 2004 From: Mark.Mitsules at ngc.com (Mitsules, Mark S. (Newport News)) Date: Tue, 23 Mar 2004 16:37:28 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Dir Size Routine Message-ID: Thank you Marty...I can use this. Supports network drives as well:) Mark -----Original Message----- From: MartyConnelly [mailto:martyconnelly at shaw.ca] Sent: Tuesday, March 23, 2004 3:48 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Dir Size Routine I use this free utility I-Disk No docs but intuiative .I believe it gives a printed report. http://downloads-zdnet.com.com/3000-2248-10188280.html?tag=lst-0-8 Arthur Fuller wrote: >Anybody got a routine to walk the dir tree from a spefied location and >report the accumulated size of all files in the given dir (+subdir), at >each level? > >I.e. > >? DirSize( "d:\docs" ) > >d:\docs 1gb >d:\docs\a .3gb >d:\docs\b .5gb >d:\docs\b\1 .2gb > >TIA, >Arthur > > > -- Marty Connelly Victoria, B.C. Canada -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From kathryn at bassett.net Tue Mar 23 17:06:40 2004 From: kathryn at bassett.net (Kathryn Bassett) Date: Tue, 23 Mar 2004 15:06:40 -0800 Subject: [AccessD] Creating Web Pages from Access In-Reply-To: <4060AF9B.24485.3431F90@localhost> Message-ID: Cool!!! I never checked on the export and this will help me with results for the AC100 race I do each year. I may have questions after I experiment. -- Kathryn Rhinehart Bassett (Pasadena CA) "Genealogy is my bag" "GH is my soap" kathryn at bassett.net http://bassett.net > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Stuart > McLachlan > Sent: 23 Mar 2004 3:44:AM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: Re: [AccessD] Creating Web Pages from Access > > > On 23 Mar 2004 at 3:29, Dale Kalsow wrote: > > > > > Does anyone create web pages from within access? I currently have an > > access form that contains all the master information for a return. I > > also have a subform on the master form that contains multiple records > > (the part numbers of the return). When I export the form to a web > > page the main part is ok but I look the subform. Does anyone know how > > to create the subform's functionality on a web page? > > > > One way is to create a report which contains the information on the > form and subform and export that to HTML. (Note that it will be > static - the page will be as long as need to dispaly all of the part > numbers). > > > > > -- > Lexacorp Ltd > http://www.lexacorp.com.pg > Information Technology Consultancy, Software Development,System > Support. > > > > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From stuart at lexacorp.com.pg Tue Mar 23 18:11:01 2004 From: stuart at lexacorp.com.pg (Stuart McLachlan) Date: Wed, 24 Mar 2004 10:11:01 +1000 Subject: [AccessD] Creating Web Pages from Access In-Reply-To: References: <4060AF9B.24485.3431F90@localhost> Message-ID: <40615EB5.4254.3A4CBE@localhost> On 23 Mar 2004 at 15:06, Kathryn Bassett wrote: > Cool!!! I never checked on the export and this will help me with > results for the AC100 race I do each year. I may have questions after > I experiment. > > -- Exporting a report to HTML does have problems with column alignement. What it does is create a single row table for each row of the report and tries to determine the spacing based on the contents of the row. As a result you get very bloated HTML and a series of tables whose columns frequently don't line up. It's often easier to "roll your own" export routine. As an example, take a look at the HTML behind http://www.pngec.gov.pg/resultsNat2002/Report3.html which was created by Exporting a Report to HTML as opposed to http://www.pngec.gov.pg/byelectabau.html created by writing the HTML out to a file one record at a time in code I can send you a copy of the code used for the second one if you are interested. -- Stuart McLachlan Lexacorp Ltd Application Development, IT Consultancy http://www.lexacorp.com.pg From jmoss111 at bellsouth.net Tue Mar 23 20:38:27 2004 From: jmoss111 at bellsouth.net (JMoss) Date: Tue, 23 Mar 2004 18:38:27 -0800 Subject: [AccessD] Creating Web Pages from Access In-Reply-To: <20040323112935.36604.qmail@web9804.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: I use CodeCharge for Access and MSDE. They have a 20 day free evaluation of any of their products at www.codecharge.com . Its reasonably priced at $149 for their basic product and the learning curve isn't too steep. It does ASP, ASP.net with C# and VB.NET code behind, PHP, PERL, JSP, and Cold Fusion. Included are several good sample sites. You might want to check out the free Web Matrix tool by Microsoft at www.asp.net . There are also several sample starter kits including web based Reporting, Time Tracker, etc. Both of these tools do master/detail pages and a good deal more. -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Dale Kalsow Sent: Tuesday, March 23, 2004 3:30 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: [AccessD] Creating Web Pages from Access Good Morning, Does anyone create web pages from within access? I currently have an access form that contains all the master information for a return. I also have a subform on the master form that contains multiple records (the part numbers of the return). When I export the form to a web page the main part is ok but I look the subform. Does anyone know how to create the subform's functionality on a web page? Thanks for any and all help! Dale Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Finance Tax Center - File online. File on time. -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From d.dick at uws.edu.au Tue Mar 23 20:55:32 2004 From: d.dick at uws.edu.au (Darren DICK) Date: Wed, 24 Mar 2004 13:55:32 +1100 Subject: [AccessD] A2K: Calculate Percentages Message-ID: <011401c4114b$7a8c2200$48619a89@DDICK> Hello all Having a brain fade here Need to work out the Dollar amount of a percentage of a grand total I have a combo that has values incrementing by 5 from 5 to 100 representing percentages EG 5,10,15,20 etc If I select say...20 from that combo, that means I want to see 20 percent of a total (say...$250) on a form eg So 20 percent of $250 is $50. But what is the syntax I need to do this? EG Me.txtGrandTotal =$250.00. Me.cboPercentages = 20 So me.txtCalculatedPercentageOfTotal.ControlSource = What, in order to show $50.00 ???? Brain dead over here Many thanks in advance Darren From stuart at lexacorp.com.pg Tue Mar 23 21:00:51 2004 From: stuart at lexacorp.com.pg (Stuart McLachlan) Date: Wed, 24 Mar 2004 13:00:51 +1000 Subject: [AccessD] A2K: Calculate Percentages In-Reply-To: <011401c4114b$7a8c2200$48619a89@DDICK> Message-ID: <40618683.17946.12A309B@localhost> On 24 Mar 2004 at 13:55, Darren DICK wrote: > Hello all > Having a brain fade here > Need to work out the Dollar amount of a percentage of a grand total > > I have a combo that has values incrementing by 5 from 5 to 100 representing percentages EG 5,10,15,20 etc > If I select say...20 from that combo, that means I want to see 20 percent of a total (say...$250) > on a form eg > So 20 percent of $250 is $50. But what is the syntax I need to do this? > EG Me.txtGrandTotal =$250.00. Me.cboPercentages = 20 So > me.txtCalculatedPercentageOfTotal.ControlSource = What, in order to show $50.00 ???? > Me.txtGrandTotal * Me.cbiPercentage / 100 (Percentage mean "out of a hundred" - so just dividing by 100 gives you 1%) -- Lexacorp Ltd http://www.lexacorp.com.pg Information Technology Consultancy, Software Development,System Support. From d.dick at uws.edu.au Tue Mar 23 21:15:30 2004 From: d.dick at uws.edu.au (Darren DICK) Date: Wed, 24 Mar 2004 14:15:30 +1100 Subject: [AccessD] A2K: Calculate Percentages References: <40618683.17946.12A309B@localhost> Message-ID: <014b01c4114e$430663b0$48619a89@DDICK> Stuart you da man My maths (and maths abilities) are just crap Thank you so much (again) Darren ----- Original Message ----- From: "Stuart McLachlan" To: "Access Developers discussion and problemsolving" Sent: Wednesday, March 24, 2004 2:00 PM Subject: Re: [AccessD] A2K: Calculate Percentages > On 24 Mar 2004 at 13:55, Darren DICK wrote: > > > Hello all > > Having a brain fade here > > Need to work out the Dollar amount of a percentage of a grand total > > > > I have a combo that has values incrementing by 5 from 5 to 100 representing percentages EG 5,10,15,20 etc > > If I select say...20 from that combo, that means I want to see 20 percent of a total (say...$250) > > on a form eg > > So 20 percent of $250 is $50. But what is the syntax I need to do this? > > EG Me.txtGrandTotal =$250.00. Me.cboPercentages = 20 So > > me.txtCalculatedPercentageOfTotal.ControlSource = What, in order to show $50.00 ???? > > > > Me.txtGrandTotal * Me.cbiPercentage / 100 > > (Percentage mean "out of a hundred" - so just dividing by 100 gives > you 1%) > > > > -- > Lexacorp Ltd > http://www.lexacorp.com.pg > Information Technology Consultancy, Software Development,System Support. > > > > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From accessd at shaw.ca Tue Mar 23 21:37:53 2004 From: accessd at shaw.ca (Jim Lawrence (AccessD)) Date: Tue, 23 Mar 2004 19:37:53 -0800 Subject: [AccessD] OT: SQL Server Reporting Services In-Reply-To: <000901c41120$72996e20$1b02a8c0@MARTINREID> Message-ID: Hi Martin: If you have an older copy of VB6, I believe that a free VisualBasic.net resource kit, from M$, will allow you to upgrade. Whether all the required features are there I do not know but a quick look at the docs suggest a full implementation. HTH Jim -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Martin Reid Sent: Tuesday, March 23, 2004 1:48 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] OT: SQL Server Reporting Services You also need Visual Studio 2003 .NET. Lot of software for an Access consultant to go out and buy for this. We are using it in work for a small number of projects as we begin to move away from Ingres towards a large SQL Server develoenvironment. Martin ----- Original Message ----- From: "Susan Harkins" To: "'Access Developers discussion and problem solving'" Sent: Tuesday, March 23, 2004 9:36 PM Subject: RE: [AccessD] OT: SQL Server Reporting Services > You need the full SQL Server license and you have to import all the Access > reports, you can't just import one at a time as needed -- so if you can live > with those two conditions, it's OK, but for what I'm doing, I don't see any > reason to venture into it beyond learning why an Access user shouldn't > bother with it. :) > > Thanks for looking. > > Susan H. > > Well save me some time. What did he say?? > > > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From stuart at lexacorp.com.pg Tue Mar 23 21:43:36 2004 From: stuart at lexacorp.com.pg (Stuart McLachlan) Date: Wed, 24 Mar 2004 13:43:36 +1000 Subject: [AccessD] A2K: Calculate Percentages In-Reply-To: <014b01c4114e$430663b0$48619a89@DDICK> Message-ID: <40619088.23875.15154FE@localhost> On 24 Mar 2004 at 14:15, Darren DICK wrote: > Stuart you da man > My maths (and maths abilities) are just crap > Thank you so much (again) > Lucky we both have similar working hours, isn't it :-) -- Lexacorp Ltd http://www.lexacorp.com.pg Information Technology Consultancy, Software Development,System Support. From accessd at shaw.ca Tue Mar 23 21:56:02 2004 From: accessd at shaw.ca (Jim Lawrence (AccessD)) Date: Tue, 23 Mar 2004 19:56:02 -0800 Subject: [AccessD] OT: Migration to SQL Server In-Reply-To: <005101c41121$eaed9c10$1b02a8c0@MARTINREID> Message-ID: Hi Martin: I have done three, does that rate? It seemed pretty easy but the upgraded FE apps had previously been upgraded to ADO and all the queries were then manually translated into stored procedures (these are just too different to imagine any translation process being fully successful.) Data importing was a snap; just select data source and type from pop-down lists. (accessed from within EPM; tools/Data transformation services/import/...) HTH Jim -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Martin Reid Sent: Tuesday, March 23, 2004 1:58 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: [AccessD] OT: Migration to SQL Server Anyone done any work migrating SEVERAL Access dbs to a single instance of SQL Server?? Particulary interested in any problems this caused etc etc Maybe a pointer to things to come. I have been asked to look at several areas around this subject including building .NET Front Ends to migrated dbs. Martin -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com Tue Mar 23 23:34:06 2004 From: jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com (John W. Colby) Date: Wed, 24 Mar 2004 00:34:06 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Framework Discussion - Using System Variables Message-ID: The demo code for this lecture can be found on my site. Click the C2DbFW3G button, then the C2DbFW3G-DemoCtlClassV6.zip link. Framework Discussion ? Using System Variables Now that we have System Variables available to control program execution it is time to demonstrate how we use this and how useful it can be. First though, I need to display the new code to the Framework class that loads, cleans up and allows access to the SysVar class. The first thing we do is add a private variable in the header of clsFramework Private mclsSV As clsSysVars We set the variable instance in clsFramework?s Initialize method. Private Sub Class_Initialize() Set mclsSV = New clsSysVars End Sub We do our cleanup in Term(). Public Sub Term() mclsSV.Term Set mclsSV = Nothing End Sub Then we create a function to return a pointer to the framework?s SysVar class instance. Notice that while we may eventually have a handful of SysVar classes instantiated to handle other functionality, the one for the framework is a special case used throughout the Framework and thus has its own variable and methods in clsFramework. ' 'Get a pointer to the FRAMEWORK'S SV class instance ' Public Function cSV() As clsSysVars Set cSV = mclsSV End Function We also build a method for clsFramework to return framework SysVars. ' 'Return SysVars from the Framework's SysVar class ' Public Function SV(strSVName As String) As Variant SV = mclsSV.SV(strSVName) End Function Having done that we can go to the debug window, initialize the framework, then call the framework SV method and get a specific SysVar from the framework. FWInit ?fw.SV("gCtlDteFormat") dd/mm/yyyy We have demonstrated that the framework is initializing the SysVar class for the Framework itself and that we can now access this SysVar class instance through methods of the Framework. Demonstrating SysVar Usage Having SysVars available to control program flow, we can now start putting then to use. One of the uses discussed on the AccessD list was to determine the data type of a bound control and use that knowledge to set a text boxes format and input mask strings. This allows us to set these properties at the framework level rather than having to go through the application setting them one by one. In order to do this I added code in the control scanner of the framework to get the data type of the field a control is bound to. First I create a dao recordset variable in dclsFrm?s header. Private mrst As DAO.Recordset In the control scanner I create an integer variable to hold the data type, then set the class? recordset to the form?s Recordset clone. Dim intCtlData type As Integer Set mrst = mfrm.RecordsetClone Inside the loop that scans all of the controls I add code to get the data type of each control. For Each ctl In mfrm.Controls 'Find each control in the form's control collection With ctl On Error Resume Next intCtlData type = mrst.Fields(ctl.ControlSource).Type Now that I know that, I have to be able to use it. In each control class for data aware controls I added a new private variable in the class header. Private mintData type As Integer 'The data type of the field the control is bound to And added a new parameter to each of these class? init(). This code is for the text box class. Inside the Init we save the passed in value so that it is available to the class. Public Sub Init(ByRef robjParent As Object, lfrm As Form, ltxt As TextBox, lintData type As Integer) mintData type = lintData type If mintData type = dbDate Then If FW.SV("gCtlDteFormatUse") Then mtxt.Format = FW.SV("gCtlDteFormat") End If If FW.SV("gCtlDteMaskUse") Then mtxt.InputMask = FW.SV("gCtlDteMask") End If End If Now we can set the format and inputmask properties of the control to match what is in the SysVar. Notice I have a SysVar that says use the format, and another that specifies a format. We can turn on/off using the format simply by setting the gCtlDteFormatUse variable True/False. We then change the format itself by changing the gCtlDteFormat SysVar. Likewise we can do the same thing for the mask. This is still a somewhat simplified example but demonstrates what is possible using the SysVars. The next thing I want to demonstrate is overriding a SysVar at the form level. Form level SysVar overrides It occasionally happens that certain behaviors need to be set for specific forms but not others. In order to do this we need to be able to have the form class load SysVars that apply to its behaviors or control behaviors, then look for the form?s name in the SysVar name. For example, we might have a SysVar named gCtlDteMaskUse. The form class has a function that loads this SysVar into a variable in the class so that its controls can poll the form class to decide whether to use a date mask. However if also looks for a SysVar with the same name but the form?s name at the end ? gCtlDteMaskUsefrmPeople. As forms load, each look for its own name in the each SysVar, but only frmPeople finds its name embedded in a SysVar. It strips its name out of the SysVar and uses the remainder of the SysVar name to set that SysVar value. Thus only that specific form gets an ?override? of that SysVar. This will be a little easier to see as I go through the code. Please remember that this is not a science by any means. Since I have never talked to anyone else doing this in their framework, there are undoubtedly other or better ways to do this, and other things that could be used with this idea. Any positive suggestions on the implementation are appreciated. In fact I have never been particularly happy with my implementation since it required adding a new variable to the form class header for each new behavior / property I want to control, and a new Property Get to read that variable out, at least for those properties where a control will be using the SysVar. As always happens, I started implementing these and ended up with many additional variables in the class header and many additional property gets for the class just to handle the form / control SysVars. I am looking at throwing all of these into a collection keyed on the base SysVar name. That would allow a single collection to hold all form / control specific SysVars and a single property get to read any SysVar in the collection, allowing extremely easy expansion of the system as new SysVars are needed in the form / controls. To implement this functionality we add a collection variable in the header of dclsFrm. '+SysVar overrides Private mcolSysVars As Collection 'A collection to hold all the form / control specific SysVars '-SysVar overrides Initialize it in the class? Initialize. Private Sub Class_Initialize() Set mcolSysVars = New Collection End Sub In Init() call a function to read the SysVars we want to use. Public Sub Init(ByRef robjParent As Object, lfrm As Form) 'Read all of the SysVars specific to forms / controls ReadSysVarBehaviorEnbls End Sub Cleanup in Term() Public Sub Term() Set mcolSysVars = Nothing End Sub ReadSysVarBehaviorEnbls reads (or tests for) exactly the SysVars that we need for form / control handling. 'The system variables can turn On and Off behaviors globally - for example combo dbl-click handling. 'However the developer may wish to override that behavior for certain forms. In order to accomplish 'this the form has to search the SysVar tables for specific switches defined at framework design time 'and handle them appropriately ' 'gCboDblClick - Gobal Dbl-Click turns on / off dbl-click handling for combos. May be over-ridden at the form level. 'gCboNotInList - Global NotInList turns on / off NotInList handling for combos. May be over-ridden at the form level. 'gCboEnter - Global Enter turns on / off Enter AND EXIT event handling for combos. ' 'fCboDblClickFrmClient - an example of an override - frmClient handles CboDblClick differently that the rest ' Private Function ReadSysVarBehaviorEnbls() On Error GoTo Err_ReadSysVarBehaviorEnbls 'The call to the function SysVarBehaviorEnbl requires the name of the SysVar minus the leading g, f, etc. SysVarBehaviorEnbl "CboDblClick" SysVarBehaviorEnbl "CboNotInList" SysVarBehaviorEnbl "EnblCtlBackGndColorChg" SysVarBehaviorEnbl "CtlBackGndColor" SysVarBehaviorEnbl "EnblLblBackGndColorDblClk" SysVarBehaviorEnbl "LblBackGndColorDblClk" SysVarBehaviorEnbl "CtlValidateBackGndColor" SysVarBehaviorEnbl "CtlDteFormat" SysVarBehaviorEnbl "CtlDteMask" SysVarBehaviorEnbl "CtlDteFormatUse" SysVarBehaviorEnbl "CtlDteMaskUse" SysVarBehaviorEnbl "PrpFrmCloseButton", mfrm.CloseButton, True SysVarBehaviorEnbl "PrpFrmMinMaxButtons", mfrm.MinMaxButtons, True SysVarBehaviorEnbl "PrpFrmControlBox", mfrm.ControlBox, True SysVarBehaviorEnbl "PrpFrmBorderStyle", mfrm.BorderStyle, True Exit_ReadSysVarBehaviorEnbls: On Error Resume Next Exit Function Err_ReadSysVarBehaviorEnbls: MsgBox Err.Description, , "Error in Function dclsFrm.ReadSysVarBehaviorEnbls" Resume Exit_ReadSysVarBehaviorEnbls Resume 0 '.FOR TROUBLESHOOTING End Function And finally SysVarBehaviorEnbl performs the magic of finding the SysVar, checking for an override etc. ' 'This function takes a passed in variable and the base name of a systemvariable, and builds up the 'global or form name, looks for the SysVars and sets the variable accordingly. ' 'The global switch starts with the character g, then the SysVar name 'the form switch starts with the letter f, then the SysVar name, then the name of the form ' 'For example, in the SysVar table we have 'gCboDblClick' which if set turns on combo dbl-clicks globally 'however a form can override the global if there is an 'fCboDblClickXXXXX' where XXXX is the name of the form ' 'This function basically just enforces a strict naming convention and wraps it all in an easy to use function ' Private Function SysVarBehaviorEnbl(strSysVarName As String, Optional varVariable As Variant, _ Optional blnIsFrmProperty As Boolean = False) On Error GoTo Err_SysVarBehaviorEnbl Dim var As Variant Dim varTemp As Variant 'get the global enable if any var = FW.SV("g" & strSysVarName) If Not IsNull(var) Then varVariable = var 'add the name of this form to 'fCboDblClick' to see if there's an override for this form specifically varTemp = FW.SV("f" & strSysVarName & mfrm.Name) If Not IsNull(varTemp) Then var = FW.SV("f" & strSysVarName & mfrm.Name) End If ' 'If this is a form property handle it as such. ' If blnIsFrmProperty Then varVariable = var Else ' ' 'Otherwise just add it to the SysVar collection keyed to the SysVarName If Not IsNull(var) Then mcolSysVars.Add var, strSysVarName End If End If Exit_SysVarBehaviorEnbl: On Error Resume Next Exit Function Err_SysVarBehaviorEnbl: MsgBox Err.Description, , "Error in Function dclsFrm.SysVarBehaviorEnbl" Resume Exit_SysVarBehaviorEnbl Resume 0 '.FOR TROUBLESHOOTING End Function We now have a single Property Get SV() to retrieve any SysVar that is loaded into the form?s SysVars collection. ' 'This property reads a SysVar if it exists in mcolSysVars, 'or returns a null if not in the collection ' Property Get SV(strSVName As String) As Variant On Error Resume Next SV = mcolSysVars(strSVName) If Err <> 0 Then SV = Null End If End Property Now we can add new SysVars for form / control use simply by adding a single line of code in ReadSysVarBehaviorEnbls which allows much easier modifications to the form and control classes to use SysVar control. Form Properties Another use for SysVars and form level overrides is setting form properties through SysVars. Since properties are just some value ? true/false, an integer etc. ? we can if we desire set specific form properties using SysVars. If the property name exists then that value gets loaded in that property of any form that loads, or for a specific form or forms. I never really explored this idea fully but I implemented it in case I ran into a use for it. Just remember that some properties are only settable in design view, and these we cannot affect using SysVars. Things like the CloseButton property, MinMaxButton etc can be set through VB and thus can be controlled by SysVars if you find that useful. The Syntax is simply: SysVarBehaviorEnbl mfrm.CloseButton, "PrpFrmCloseButton" SysVarBehaviorEnbl mfrm.MinMaxButtons, "PrpFrmMinMaxButtons" SysVarBehaviorEnbl mfrm.ControlBox, "PrpFrmControlBox" SysVarBehaviorEnbl mfrm.BorderStyle, "PrpFrmBorderStyle" Control SysVars Controls obviously need to be able to read SysVars to modify their behaviors as well, as we saw demonstrated at the beginning of this lecture. In order to reduce complexity and place all form / control SysVar loads in a common location I do the load of all Control SysVars in the form class as well. By exposing a SV property that can read any SysVar value back out of the form?s SysVar collection, the controls can ?poll? the form class for SysVars that they need. To demonstrate this we will modify the text box class to ask the form class about the date mask. In the form?s Init(): If mintData type = dbDate Then If mobjParent.SV("CtlDteFormatUse") Then mtxt.Format = mobjParent.SV("CtlDteFormat") End If If mobjParent.SV("CtlDteMaskUse") Then mtxt.InputMask = mobjParent.SV("CtlDteMask") End If End If To see the effects of using the SysVar, simply select the HOUSAC WATER QUALITY DISTRICT company, then notice that the DOB field is formatted per the gCtlDteFormat in usystblFWSysVars. You can turn on/off this functionality by setting gCtlDteFormatUse True or False as you desire, then in the debug window calling fw.csv.RefreshSysVars. This calls the framework, gets a pointer to the SysVars class using the framework?s csv property, then calls the RefreshSysVars method of that class. Summary SysVars provide a powerful tool for modifying the Framework or Application behaviors. We can use generic behaviors, setting default behaviors that we can then modify behaviors for an entire application, or on a form by form basis. The controls can modify their behaviors by calling the parent form class? SV method to get a SysVar value. In the future we will be adding dozens of behaviors to the form class and the various control classes. Virtually all of these behaviors will be programmable by setting up SysVars in usystblFWSysVars and then reading out the SysVars in the form class. Our code will then use these values to set control and label background colors when behaviors are enabled, enable these various behaviors, enable things like JIT subforms and so forth. A framework is far more than a simple hammer. Any time we program a behavior that we have needed forever or are using over and over in our applications, consider placing that behavior in the control or form class as appropriate, then turn on / off that behavior with SysVars. Suddenly you will be able to offer options to the client literally at the ?push of a button? ? or the setting of a SysVar. To a man with a hammer, everything may very well look like a nail. To a developer with a framework and SysVars, the search and replace tool becomes the last resort instead of the first. John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com From jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com Wed Mar 24 00:10:04 2004 From: jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com (John W. Colby) Date: Wed, 24 Mar 2004 01:10:04 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Framework Discussion - Another poll Message-ID: I need to take another poll. Would everyone following the discussion please raise their hands. Thanks, John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com From Kenneth.Stoker at pnl.gov Wed Mar 24 00:28:37 2004 From: Kenneth.Stoker at pnl.gov (Stoker, Kenneth E) Date: Tue, 23 Mar 2004 22:28:37 -0800 Subject: [AccessD] Framework Discussion - Another poll Message-ID: <249C1CB246997C48BB74963CCD361C1B014A05B6@pnlmse28.pnl.gov> Here, Here. I am not reading as closely at the moment, right in the middle of transitioning to a new job, but I am saving everything that even hints at the framework discussion religiously. Ken Stoker -----Original Message----- From: John W. Colby [mailto:jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com] Sent: Tuesday, March 23, 2004 10:10 PM To: AccessD Subject: [AccessD] Framework Discussion - Another poll I need to take another poll. Would everyone following the discussion please raise their hands. Thanks, John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From accessd667 at yahoo.com Wed Mar 24 00:33:26 2004 From: accessd667 at yahoo.com (S D) Date: Tue, 23 Mar 2004 22:33:26 -0800 (PST) Subject: [AccessD] VBE Error Handler In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <20040324063326.81387.qmail@web61106.mail.yahoo.com> grmbl. A pitty. I think I'm going to try using you're error handler and some copy/paste/replace stuff...or copy it into a textfile and write a litte prog to do the replacing. Thanks anyway. Sander PS: A couple of weeks back I saw my first MS-Access 2.0 app from 1995 or so....oi, PS1 was not completely applicable but....although normalization was correct and it still works like a charm :-) "John W. Colby" wrote: LOL to the whole message!!! In particular the PS1: I feel for you, but with any luck it will generate prodigious revenue as you clean it up. The error handler wizard is in VB and is under the care of Seth Galitzer. This sounds like a very custom mod which you would probably have to make. John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of S D Sent: Tuesday, March 23, 2004 9:34 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] VBE Error Handler We use a VB function to create a standard message. We use this in all (500+) applications. I don't won't to break the line of work. Problem is we enherited a HUGE Access app (250+ tables, 300+ forms, 7(!?!) modules) So we've got the following line in all our error handling: Call GenErr("Switchdatabase.Form_Startscherm", "Form_Load") TIA Sander PS1: according to the programmer of this beast: - 'normalization'? What's that, a snack? - a function is never used more then once - dim a, b, c as string creates 3 strings.... - dim blnError as String blnError = "0" blnError = "1" blnError = "incorrect" aaahhhhrg..... "John W. Colby" wrote: In short, it is not "programmable". The message the user gets is the native Access error plus the function / module name. What did you have in mind? John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of S D Sent: Tuesday, March 23, 2004 8:20 AM To: accessd Subject: [AccessD] VBE Error Handler Hi group, i downloaded the VBE Error Handler dll from www.databaseadvisors written by John Colby. I really love this program....almost. It works great however I want to change the message that the user gets. Is that possible? Thnx in advance. Regards Sander Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Finance Tax Center - File online. File on time. -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Finance Tax Center - File online. File on time. -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Finance Tax Center - File online. File on time. From davide at dalyn.co.nz Wed Mar 24 00:46:40 2004 From: davide at dalyn.co.nz (David Emerson) Date: Wed, 24 Mar 2004 18:46:40 +1200 Subject: [AccessD] Framework Discussion - Another poll In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <5.2.0.9.0.20040324184434.00b2bc80@mail.dalyn.co.nz> ____ _ | | | | | / / \ / | | Regards David Emerson Dalyn Software Ltd 25 Cunliffe St, Churton Park Wellington, New Zealand Ph/Fax 0064 4 478-7456 At 24/03/2004, you wrote: >I need to take another poll. Would everyone following the discussion please >raise their hands. > >Thanks, > >John W. Colby >www.ColbyConsulting.com > > >-- >_______________________________________________ >AccessD mailing list >AccessD at databaseadvisors.com >http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd >Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From accessd667 at yahoo.com Wed Mar 24 00:55:40 2004 From: accessd667 at yahoo.com (S D) Date: Tue, 23 Mar 2004 22:55:40 -0800 (PST) Subject: [AccessD] Web Pages in Access In-Reply-To: <23218488.1080053745940.JavaMail.www@wwinf3006> Message-ID: <20040324065540.67323.qmail@web61107.mail.yahoo.com> Here you go: http://www.asp101.com/samples/login.asp Regards, Sander. PS: this is a great site for a beginner. Very clear samples WITH GREAT expl. paul.hartland at fsmail.net wrote: Sander, The original message was from Dale, I replied with my question of sample code for ASP logon etc which checks a username and password from an Access or SQL Server database. I?m still after any sample code with a brief explanation of how it all works for an ASP logon page. Paul Message date : Mar 23 2004, 02:48 PM >From : "S D" To : "Access Developers discussion and problem solving" Copy to : Subject : Re: Re: [AccessD] Web Pages in Access Paul, is it standard ASP that you want? I've had to deal with the same problem and that's why I started building my own pages for testing and such. I can send them to you off-line if you want. I'm not exactly sure what you did but if you somehow exporterd you're standard Access master-detail form to ASP...I don't think that that will work. ASP doesn't have 'sub-forms' Maybe Access-ASP has. In standard ASP you would build a table using HTML and fill it with a recordset. Then you would have to check how many records you would like to see....create nav buttons...aarhg the horror is getting worse and worse. If need the samples let me know. I believe I use a SQL-Server as data thingy...hmm have to look tonight. Regards, Sander paul.hartland at fsmail.net wrote: Tell you what, I'm just about to start getting into HTML, ASP etc (horrified at the thought, but it has to be done). So if anyone has sample code for a pretty secure logon page that will then direct the user to a menu page if the password is correct etc I would like to see the code, preferably with a simple explanation of how it works. I have found various little bits and pieces on the web but could never get them to work properly. Paul Hartland Message date : Mar 23 2004, 12:34 PM >From : chris at thecube.net To : accessd at databaseadvisors.com Copy to : Subject : Re: [AccessD] Web Pages in Access Dale, Looks like you need to start venturing into ASP, if you cade code using recordsets then ASP is not really that big a step. Let me know if you would like a kick start and/or sample ASP Cheers Chris ----- Original Message ----- From: Dale Kalsow To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Sent: Mon, 22 Mar 2004 12:51:40 -0800 (PST) Subject: [AccessD] Web Pages in Access Does Anyone have experiance with creating web pages through Acess. I have a form that currently works within access. It displays the fields of a table and then has a subform that displays (and allows modifications) all of the parts that go along with the master record. I can export the form to html but loose the subform and have not been able to figure out how to recrate the functionally of the subform. All help is appreciated! Thanks! Dale Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Finance Tax Center - File online. File on time. -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com [ (no filename) (0.2 Kb) ] Freeserve AnyTime - HALF PRICE for the first 3 months - Save ?7.50 a month www.freeserve.com/anytime -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Finance Tax Center - File online. File on time. -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com Freeserve AnyTime - HALF PRICE for the first 3 months - Save ?7.50 a month www.freeserve.com/anytime -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Finance Tax Center - File online. File on time. From Philippe.Pons19 at wanadoo.fr Wed Mar 24 01:41:27 2004 From: Philippe.Pons19 at wanadoo.fr (Philippe Pons) Date: Wed, 24 Mar 2004 08:41:27 +0100 Subject: [AccessD] Framework Discussion - Another poll References: <249C1CB246997C48BB74963CCD361C1B014A05B6@pnlmse28.pnl.gov> Message-ID: <001201c41173$6ab5ff40$4915fa51@linceow2000pro> Yes I am... Reading, studying and experimenting... Thnaks, Philippe ----- Original Message ----- From: "Stoker, Kenneth E" To: "Access Developers discussion and problem solving" Sent: Wednesday, March 24, 2004 7:28 AM Subject: RE: [AccessD] Framework Discussion - Another poll > Here, Here. I am not reading as closely at the moment, right in the > middle of transitioning to a new job, but I am saving everything that > even hints at the framework discussion religiously. > > Ken Stoker > > -----Original Message----- > From: John W. Colby [mailto:jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com] > Sent: Tuesday, March 23, 2004 10:10 PM > To: AccessD > Subject: [AccessD] Framework Discussion - Another poll > > > I need to take another poll. Would everyone following the discussion > please raise their hands. > > Thanks, > > John W. Colby > www.ColbyConsulting.com > > > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From paul.hartland at fsmail.net Wed Mar 24 02:43:39 2004 From: paul.hartland at fsmail.net (paul.hartland at fsmail.net) Date: Wed, 24 Mar 2004 09:43:39 +0100 (CET) Subject: [AccessD] Web Pages in Access Message-ID: <30445198.1080117818990.JavaMail.www@wwinf3003> Thanks, will try that.... Message date : Mar 24 2004, 06:57 AM >From : "S D" To : "Access Developers discussion and problem solving" Copy to : Subject : Re: Re: Re: [AccessD] Web Pages in Access Here you go: http://www.asp101.com/samples/login.asp Regards, Sander. PS: this is a great site for a beginner. Very clear samples WITH GREAT expl. paul.hartland at fsmail.net wrote: Sander, The original message was from Dale, I replied with my question of sample code for ASP logon etc which checks a username and password from an Access or SQL Server database. I?m still after any sample code with a brief explanation of how it all works for an ASP logon page. Paul Message date : Mar 23 2004, 02:48 PM >From : "S D" To : "Access Developers discussion and problem solving" Copy to : Subject : Re: Re: [AccessD] Web Pages in Access Paul, is it standard ASP that you want? I've had to deal with the same problem and that's why I started building my own pages for testing and such. I can send them to you off-line if you want. I'm not exactly sure what you did but if you somehow exporterd you're standard Access master-detail form to ASP...I don't think that that will work. ASP doesn't have 'sub-forms' Maybe Access-ASP has. In standard ASP you would build a table using HTML and fill it with a recordset. Then you would have to check how many records you would like to see....create nav buttons...aarhg the horror is getting worse and worse. If need the samples let me know. I believe I use a SQL-Server as data thingy...hmm have to look tonight. Regards, Sander paul.hartland at fsmail.net wrote: Tell you what, I'm just about to start getting into HTML, ASP etc (horrified at the thought, but it has to be done). So if anyone has sample code for a pretty secure logon page that will then direct the user to a menu page if the password is correct etc I would like to see the code, preferably with a simple explanation of how it works. I have found various little bits and pieces on the web but could never get them to work properly. Paul Hartland Message date : Mar 23 2004, 12:34 PM >From : chris at thecube.net To : accessd at databaseadvisors.com Copy to : Subject : Re: [AccessD] Web Pages in Access Dale, Looks like you need to start venturing into ASP, if you cade code using recordsets then ASP is not really that big a step. Let me know if you would like a kick start and/or sample ASP Cheers Chris ----- Original Message ----- From: Dale Kalsow To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Sent: Mon, 22 Mar 2004 12:51:40 -0800 (PST) Subject: [AccessD] Web Pages in Access Does Anyone have experiance with creating web pages through Acess. I have a form that currently works within access. It displays the fields of a table and then has a subform that displays (and allows modifications) all of the parts that go along with the master record. I can export the form to html but loose the subform and have not been able to figure out how to recrate the functionally of the subform. All help is appreciated! Thanks! Dale Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Finance Tax Center - File online. File on time. -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com [ (no filename) (0.2 Kb) ] Freeserve AnyTime - HALF PRICE for the first 3 months - Save ?7.50 a month www.freeserve.com/anytime -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Finance Tax Center - File online. File on time. -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com Freeserve AnyTime - HALF PRICE for the first 3 months - Save ?7.50 a month www.freeserve.com/anytime -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Finance Tax Center - File online. File on time. -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com Freeserve AnyTime - HALF PRICE for the first 3 months - Save ?7.50 a month www.freeserve.com/anytime From accessd667 at yahoo.com Wed Mar 24 02:50:08 2004 From: accessd667 at yahoo.com (S D) Date: Wed, 24 Mar 2004 00:50:08 -0800 (PST) Subject: [AccessD] Find FE Path? Message-ID: <20040324085008.36532.qmail@web61103.mail.yahoo.com> Hi group, how can I figure out from wich path the FE was started? I know how to find the BE path, but how can find the FE? Regards, Sander Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Finance Tax Center - File online. File on time. From stuart at lexacorp.com.pg Wed Mar 24 03:19:18 2004 From: stuart at lexacorp.com.pg (Stuart McLachlan) Date: Wed, 24 Mar 2004 19:19:18 +1000 Subject: [AccessD] Find FE Path? In-Reply-To: <20040324085008.36532.qmail@web61103.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <4061DF36.5124.284AC12@localhost> On 24 Mar 2004 at 0:50, S D wrote: > Hi group, > > how can I figure out from wich path the FE was started? > I know how to find the BE path, but how can find the FE? > Second time I've posted this one in 24 hours. Static Function ApplDir() As String Dim strApplDir As String Dim strTemp As String If strApplDir = "" Then strTemp = DBEngine(0)(0).Name strApplDir = Left$(strTemp, InStrRev(strTemp, "\")) End If ApplDir = strApplDir End Function -- Lexacorp Ltd http://www.lexacorp.com.pg Information Technology Consultancy, Software Development,System Support. From davide at dalyn.co.nz Wed Mar 24 03:25:42 2004 From: davide at dalyn.co.nz (David Emerson) Date: Wed, 24 Mar 2004 21:25:42 +1200 Subject: [AccessD] Find FE Path? In-Reply-To: <20040324085008.36532.qmail@web61103.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <5.2.0.9.0.20040324211913.00b2bd08@mail.dalyn.co.nz> Sander, You can try CurrentProject.Path (not sure which version of Access this was added to). Regards David Emerson Dalyn Software Ltd 25 Cunliffe St, Churton Park Wellington, New Zealand Ph/Fax 0064 4 478-7456 At 24/03/2004, you wrote: >Hi group, > >how can I figure out from wich path the FE was started? >I know how to find the BE path, but how can find the FE? > >Regards, > >Sander > >Do you Yahoo!? >Yahoo! Finance Tax Center - File online. File on time. >-- >_______________________________________________ >AccessD mailing list >AccessD at databaseadvisors.com >http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd >Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From d.dick at uws.edu.au Wed Mar 24 03:48:35 2004 From: d.dick at uws.edu.au (Darren DICK) Date: Wed, 24 Mar 2004 20:48:35 +1100 Subject: [AccessD] Find FE Path? References: <20040324085008.36532.qmail@web61103.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <003d01c41185$2e164330$30669a89@DDICK> Private sub myclicker() msgbox Left(CurrentDb.Name, Len(CurrentDb.Name) - Len(Dir(CurrentDb.Name))) end sub Will give you the the directory oops sorry - f o l d e r - that the app was lanched from :-)) Private Sub MyClicker2() msgbox CurrentDb.Name end sub will give the full path of the app including the app name Hope this helps Darren ----- Original Message ----- From: "S D" To: "accessd" Sent: Wednesday, March 24, 2004 7:50 PM Subject: [AccessD] Find FE Path? > Hi group, > > how can I figure out from wich path the FE was started? > I know how to find the BE path, but how can find the FE? > > Regards, > > Sander > > Do you Yahoo!? > Yahoo! Finance Tax Center - File online. File on time. > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From gustav at cactus.dk Wed Mar 24 03:56:09 2004 From: gustav at cactus.dk (Gustav Brock) Date: Wed, 24 Mar 2004 10:56:09 +0100 Subject: [AccessD] Framework Discussion - Another poll In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <1749581136.20040324105609@cactus.dk> Hi John I do. /gustav > I need to take another poll. Would everyone following the discussion please > raise their hands. From mwp.reid at qub.ac.uk Wed Mar 24 04:17:23 2004 From: mwp.reid at qub.ac.uk (Martin Reid) Date: Wed, 24 Mar 2004 10:17:23 -0000 Subject: [AccessD] Framework Discussion - Another poll References: <1749581136.20040324105609@cactus.dk> Message-ID: <000901c41189$32baa120$9111758f@aine> here martin ----- Original Message ----- From: "Gustav Brock" To: "Access Developers discussion and problem solving" Sent: Wednesday, March 24, 2004 9:56 AM Subject: Re: [AccessD] Framework Discussion - Another poll > Hi John > > I do. > > /gustav > > > > I need to take another poll. Would everyone following the discussion please > > raise their hands. > > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > From d.dick at uws.edu.au Wed Mar 24 04:26:32 2004 From: d.dick at uws.edu.au (Darren DICK) Date: Wed, 24 Mar 2004 21:26:32 +1100 Subject: [AccessD] A2K: Percentages again Message-ID: <008601c4118a$7b5bcf70$30669a89@DDICK> Hello all Hi Stuart (beg beg govel grovel :-)) How do I do it backwards now. Eg $250 invoice - Client pays $50 That's 20% but how do I calc that? Many thanks in advance Darren From conny at qad.se Wed Mar 24 04:26:56 2004 From: conny at qad.se (Conny Johansson) Date: Wed, 24 Mar 2004 11:26:56 +0100 Subject: SV: [AccessD] Framework Discussion - Another poll In-Reply-To: <1749581136.20040324105609@cactus.dk> Message-ID: <20040324102646.EC9D437E59@smtp3-1-sn1.fre.skanova.net> So do I Conny J -----Ursprungligt meddelande----- Fr?n: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] F?r Gustav Brock Skickat: den 24 mars 2004 10:56 Till: Access Developers discussion and problem solving ?mne: Re: [AccessD] Framework Discussion - Another poll Hi John I do. /gustav > I need to take another poll. Would everyone following the discussion please > raise their hands. -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com _____ avast! Antivirus : Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 0403-17, 03/22/2004 Tested on: 2004-03-24 11:26:56 avast! is copyright (c) 2000-2003 ALWIL Software. From accessd667 at yahoo.com Wed Mar 24 04:32:37 2004 From: accessd667 at yahoo.com (S D) Date: Wed, 24 Mar 2004 02:32:37 -0800 (PST) Subject: [AccessD] Framework Discussion - Another poll In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <20040324103237.57551.qmail@web61108.mail.yahoo.com> raised! Sander "John W. Colby" wrote: I need to take another poll. Would everyone following the discussion please raise their hands. Thanks, John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Finance Tax Center - File online. File on time. From Helmut.E.Kotsch at t-online.de Wed Mar 24 04:36:40 2004 From: Helmut.E.Kotsch at t-online.de (Helmut Kotsch) Date: Wed, 24 Mar 2004 11:36:40 +0100 Subject: AW: [AccessD] A2K: Percentages again In-Reply-To: <008601c4118a$7b5bcf70$30669a89@DDICK> Message-ID: Darren, 50 divided by 250 equals to .2 .2 times 100 equals to 20 which makes it 20 of 100 or 20%. Helmut Kotsch -----Urspr?ngliche Nachricht----- Von: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]Im Auftrag von Darren DICK Gesendet: Mittwoch, 24. M?rz 2004 11:27 An: AccessD List Betreff: [AccessD] A2K: Percentages again Hello all Hi Stuart (beg beg govel grovel :-)) How do I do it backwards now. Eg $250 invoice - Client pays $50 That's 20% but how do I calc that? Many thanks in advance Darren -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From rsmethurst at UK.EY.COM Wed Mar 24 04:40:55 2004 From: rsmethurst at UK.EY.COM (rsmethurst at UK.EY.COM) Date: Wed, 24 Mar 2004 10:40:55 +0000 Subject: [AccessD] OT: Migration to SQL Server Message-ID: Martin, I've done it a few times in the (distant) past and found the process 'relatively' painless. Biggest issue I had was ensuring the datatypes were compatible...as I recall I had an issue with the Access curreny type but it was easily sorted. Agree with Jim, that it's worth manually transferring any complex queries as you'll tend to get problems with those, and I think you'll also get issues if you try to upgrade crosstab queries. 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From d.dick at uws.edu.au Wed Mar 24 05:14:06 2004 From: d.dick at uws.edu.au (Darren DICK) Date: Wed, 24 Mar 2004 22:14:06 +1100 Subject: [AccessD] A2K: Percentages again References: Message-ID: <000901c41191$20219b60$30669a89@DDICK> Helmut Thanks heaps Just what I needed Have agreatday This list (and it's people) is awesome Darren ----- Original Message ----- From: "Helmut Kotsch" To: "Access Developers discussion and problem solving" Sent: Wednesday, March 24, 2004 9:36 PM Subject: AW: [AccessD] A2K: Percentages again > Darren, > > 50 divided by 250 equals to .2 > .2 times 100 equals to 20 > which makes it 20 of 100 or 20%. > > Helmut Kotsch > > -----Urspr?ngliche Nachricht----- > Von: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]Im Auftrag von Darren DICK > Gesendet: Mittwoch, 24. M?rz 2004 11:27 > An: AccessD List > Betreff: [AccessD] A2K: Percentages again > > > Hello all > Hi Stuart (beg beg govel grovel :-)) > How do I do it backwards now. > Eg $250 invoice - Client pays $50 That's 20% but how do I calc that? > > Many thanks in advance > > Darren > > > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From Subscriptions at servicexp.com Wed Mar 24 06:08:47 2004 From: Subscriptions at servicexp.com (Robert Gracie) Date: Wed, 24 Mar 2004 07:08:47 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Framework Discussion - Another poll In-Reply-To: Message-ID: I Am! Robert Gracie www.servicexp.com -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of John W. Colby Sent: Wednesday, March 24, 2004 1:10 AM To: AccessD Subject: [AccessD] Framework Discussion - Another poll I need to take another poll. Would everyone following the discussion please raise their hands. Thanks, John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com Wed Mar 24 06:22:53 2004 From: jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com (John W. Colby) Date: Wed, 24 Mar 2004 07:22:53 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] VBE Error Handler In-Reply-To: <20040324063326.81387.qmail@web61106.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: >grmbl. Yea, I understand. Unfortunately I am not a VB kind of guy. I "wrote" the original but it was in Access. I don't event own VB (non .NET version anyway). You might beg and plead with Drew Wutka. He is very handy with VB and loves a challenge. It would also give him a chance to get up to his elbows in my old code and moan about it. I know Seth moaned a bit. John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of S D Sent: Wednesday, March 24, 2004 1:33 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] VBE Error Handler grmbl. A pitty. I think I'm going to try using you're error handler and some copy/paste/replace stuff...or copy it into a textfile and write a litte prog to do the replacing. Thanks anyway. Sander PS: A couple of weeks back I saw my first MS-Access 2.0 app from 1995 or so....oi, PS1 was not completely applicable but....although normalization was correct and it still works like a charm :-) "John W. Colby" wrote: LOL to the whole message!!! In particular the PS1: I feel for you, but with any luck it will generate prodigious revenue as you clean it up. The error handler wizard is in VB and is under the care of Seth Galitzer. This sounds like a very custom mod which you would probably have to make. John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of S D Sent: Tuesday, March 23, 2004 9:34 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] VBE Error Handler We use a VB function to create a standard message. We use this in all (500+) applications. I don't won't to break the line of work. Problem is we enherited a HUGE Access app (250+ tables, 300+ forms, 7(!?!) modules) So we've got the following line in all our error handling: Call GenErr("Switchdatabase.Form_Startscherm", "Form_Load") TIA Sander PS1: according to the programmer of this beast: - 'normalization'? What's that, a snack? - a function is never used more then once - dim a, b, c as string creates 3 strings.... - dim blnError as String blnError = "0" blnError = "1" blnError = "incorrect" aaahhhhrg..... "John W. Colby" wrote: In short, it is not "programmable". The message the user gets is the native Access error plus the function / module name. What did you have in mind? John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of S D Sent: Tuesday, March 23, 2004 8:20 AM To: accessd Subject: [AccessD] VBE Error Handler Hi group, i downloaded the VBE Error Handler dll from www.databaseadvisors written by John Colby. I really love this program....almost. It works great however I want to change the message that the user gets. Is that possible? Thnx in advance. Regards Sander Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Finance Tax Center - File online. File on time. -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Finance Tax Center - File online. File on time. -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Finance Tax Center - File online. File on time. -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From tinanfields at torchlake.com Wed Mar 24 06:30:08 2004 From: tinanfields at torchlake.com (Tina Norris Fields) Date: Wed, 24 Mar 2004 07:30:08 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Framework Discussion - Another poll References: Message-ID: <40617F50.4000706@torchlake.com> Me, me, me - need to read and re-read until I understand it, but - me, me, me!!!!! Tina John W. Colby wrote: >I need to take another poll. Would everyone following the discussion please >raise their hands. > >Thanks, > >John W. Colby >www.ColbyConsulting.com > > > > From tinanfields at torchlake.com Wed Mar 24 06:46:39 2004 From: tinanfields at torchlake.com (Tina Norris Fields) Date: Wed, 24 Mar 2004 07:46:39 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Creating Web Pages from Access References: <20040323112935.36604.qmail@web9804.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <4061832F.1030200@torchlake.com> Dale, Even though I'm not crazy about them - I think this is what Data Access Pages were created for. Have you tried that approach? Tina Dale Kalsow wrote: >Good Morning, > > > >Does anyone create web pages from within access? I currently have an access form that contains all the master information for a return. I also have a subform on the master form that contains multiple records (the part numbers of the return). When I export the form to a web page the main part is ok but I look the subform. Does anyone know how to create the subform's functionality on a web page? > > > >Thanks for any and all help! > > > >Dale > >Do you Yahoo!? >Yahoo! Finance Tax Center - File online. File on time. > > From mikedorism at adelphia.net Wed Mar 24 06:27:29 2004 From: mikedorism at adelphia.net (Mike & Doris Manning) Date: Wed, 24 Mar 2004 07:27:29 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] OT: Migration to SQL Server In-Reply-To: <005101c41121$eaed9c10$1b02a8c0@MARTINREID> Message-ID: <000001c4119b$5fda94a0$c4194244@hargrove.internal> Hi Martin, I migrated four different Access dbs to a single instance of SQL Server about a year ago and didn't encounter any problems. Doris Manning Database Administrator Hargrove Inc. www.hargroveinc.com -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Martin Reid Sent: Tuesday, March 23, 2004 4:58 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: [AccessD] OT: Migration to SQL Server Anyone done any work migrating SEVERAL Access dbs to a single instance of SQL Server?? Particulary interested in any problems this caused etc etc Maybe a pointer to things to come. I have been asked to look at several areas around this subject including building .NET Front Ends to migrated dbs. Martin -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From info at Oop.nl Wed Mar 24 06:51:33 2004 From: info at Oop.nl (Marcel Vreuls) Date: Wed, 24 Mar 2004 13:51:33 +0100 Subject: [AccessD] Framework Discussion - Another poll In-Reply-To: <40617F50.4000706@torchlake.com> Message-ID: <005701c4119e$bd59a410$9700000a@ooplaptop> John, I do but have less time because I am in the middle of a startup in a new project. But save all the messages in a seperate folder to read them on a rainy sunday :-). Thnx, marcel -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Tina Norris Fields Sent: woensdag 24 maart 2004 13:30 To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Framework Discussion - Another poll Me, me, me - need to read and re-read until I understand it, but - me, me, me!!!!! Tina John W. Colby wrote: >I need to take another poll. Would everyone following the discussion please >raise their hands. > >Thanks, > >John W. Colby >www.ColbyConsulting.com > > > > -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From mwp.reid at qub.ac.uk Wed Mar 24 06:55:34 2004 From: mwp.reid at qub.ac.uk (Martin Reid) Date: Wed, 24 Mar 2004 12:55:34 -0000 Subject: [AccessD] OT: Migration to SQL Server References: <000001c4119b$5fda94a0$c4194244@hargrove.internal> Message-ID: <002101c4119f$4c219cc0$9111758f@aine> Anything special you had to do in terms of SQL Server to assist in managing the resulting databases? for example creating admin users etc Martin ----- Original Message ----- From: "Mike & Doris Manning" To: "'Access Developers discussion and problem solving'" Sent: Wednesday, March 24, 2004 12:27 PM Subject: RE: [AccessD] OT: Migration to SQL Server > Hi Martin, > > I migrated four different Access dbs to a single instance of SQL Server > about a year ago and didn't encounter any problems. > > Doris Manning > Database Administrator > Hargrove Inc. > www.hargroveinc.com > > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Martin Reid > Sent: Tuesday, March 23, 2004 4:58 PM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: [AccessD] OT: Migration to SQL Server > > > Anyone done any work migrating SEVERAL Access dbs to a single instance of > SQL Server?? > > Particulary interested in any problems this caused etc etc > > Maybe a pointer to things to come. I have been asked to look at several > areas around this subject including building .NET Front Ends to migrated > dbs. > > Martin > > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > From gjgiever at yahoo.com Wed Mar 24 07:02:34 2004 From: gjgiever at yahoo.com (Gary) Date: Wed, 24 Mar 2004 05:02:34 -0800 (PST) Subject: [AccessD] Table Index Message-ID: <20040324130234.97577.qmail@web10504.mail.yahoo.com> I've seen this information somewhere before but I can't seen to locate it. I have an Access 97 database that gives this message: "Operation invalid without a current index. (Error 3019. Set the Index, and then try the operation again. Does anyone know how to go about setting an index? I cannot see the tables or any other object at this time. __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Finance Tax Center - File online. File on time. http://taxes.yahoo.com/filing.html From gjgiever at yahoo.com Wed Mar 24 07:12:59 2004 From: gjgiever at yahoo.com (Gary) Date: Wed, 24 Mar 2004 05:12:59 -0800 (PST) Subject: [AccessD] Table Index In-Reply-To: <20040324130234.97577.qmail@web10504.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <20040324131259.66656.qmail@web10509.mail.yahoo.com> Forget it. I found it. Sorry about that. --- Gary wrote: > I've seen this information somewhere before but I > can't seen to locate it. > > I have an Access 97 database that gives this > message: > "Operation invalid without a current index. (Error > 3019. Set the Index, and then try the operation > again. > > Does anyone know how to go about setting an index? > I > cannot see the tables or any other object at this > time. > > __________________________________ > Do you Yahoo!? > Yahoo! Finance Tax Center - File online. File on > time. > http://taxes.yahoo.com/filing.html > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com ===== Gary To steal ideas from one person is plagiarism; to steal from many is research __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Finance Tax Center - File online. File on time. http://taxes.yahoo.com/filing.html From HollisVJ at pgdp.usec.com Wed Mar 24 07:18:01 2004 From: HollisVJ at pgdp.usec.com (Hollis,Virginia) Date: Wed, 24 Mar 2004 07:18:01 -0600 Subject: [AccessD] Table Index Message-ID: <618EB4D6DDCDD3119B0A00508B6FD37A0CB0D3DD@cntexchange.pgdp.usec.com> I know this is not the complete answer, but I have received this when the field name in the table index is named Primary Key and not the name of the field. For example, in the table design, choose View, Index, the Field Name should be the same as the Index Name. Someone else will probably have a better answer, I just know this worked for me. Virginia -----Original Message----- From: Gary [mailto:gjgiever at yahoo.com] Sent: Wednesday, March 24, 2004 7:03 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: [AccessD] Table Index I've seen this information somewhere before but I can't seen to locate it. I have an Access 97 database that gives this message: "Operation invalid without a current index. (Error 3019. Set the Index, and then try the operation again. Does anyone know how to go about setting an index? I cannot see the tables or any other object at this time. __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Finance Tax Center - File online. File on time. http://taxes.yahoo.com/filing.html -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From bheid at appdevgrp.com Wed Mar 24 07:59:14 2004 From: bheid at appdevgrp.com (Bobby Heid) Date: Wed, 24 Mar 2004 08:59:14 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Framework Discussion - Another poll In-Reply-To: <916187228923D311A6FE00A0CC3FAA307E9755@ADGSERVER> Message-ID: <916187228923D311A6FE00A0CC3FAA305BB37D@ADGSERVER> I'm not able to read the stuff yet, but I have saved everything. I am in the middle of getting ready for another point release for our client. Bobby > -----Original Message----- > From: John W. Colby [mailto:jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com] > Sent: Tuesday, March 23, 2004 10:10 PM > To: AccessD > Subject: [AccessD] Framework Discussion - Another poll > > > I need to take another poll. Would everyone following the discussion > please raise their hands. > > Thanks, > > John W. Colby > www.ColbyConsulting.com > > > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From Developer at UltraDNT.com Wed Mar 24 08:09:52 2004 From: Developer at UltraDNT.com (Developer) Date: Wed, 24 Mar 2004 09:09:52 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Framework Discussion - Another poll In-Reply-To: <916187228923D311A6FE00A0CC3FAA305BB37D@ADGSERVER> Message-ID: <000201c411a9$b333acf0$6401a8c0@COA3> Hand raised here. > -----Original Message----- > From: John W. Colby [mailto:jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com] > Sent: Tuesday, March 23, 2004 10:10 PM > To: AccessD > Subject: [AccessD] Framework Discussion - Another poll > > > I need to take another poll. Would everyone following the discussion > please raise their hands. > > Thanks, > > John W. Colby > www.ColbyConsulting.com > > > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From Developer at UltraDNT.com Wed Mar 24 08:12:55 2004 From: Developer at UltraDNT.com (Developer) Date: Wed, 24 Mar 2004 09:12:55 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] OT: Migration to SQL Server - sort of In-Reply-To: <002101c4119f$4c219cc0$9111758f@aine> Message-ID: <000301c411aa$1d158a80$6401a8c0@COA3> Not exactly migration, but biggest issue I've had lately with Access FE's to SQL 2k is that Access can't deal with GUID's. You *must* make all the queries that join on these types of fields into views because Access can't relaibly make these joins. -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Martin Reid Sent: Wednesday, March 24, 2004 7:56 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] OT: Migration to SQL Server Anything special you had to do in terms of SQL Server to assist in managing the resulting databases? for example creating admin users etc Martin ----- Original Message ----- From: "Mike & Doris Manning" To: "'Access Developers discussion and problem solving'" Sent: Wednesday, March 24, 2004 12:27 PM Subject: RE: [AccessD] OT: Migration to SQL Server > Hi Martin, > > I migrated four different Access dbs to a single instance of SQL > Server about a year ago and didn't encounter any problems. > > Doris Manning > Database Administrator > Hargrove Inc. > www.hargroveinc.com > > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Martin Reid > Sent: Tuesday, March 23, 2004 4:58 PM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: [AccessD] OT: Migration to SQL Server > > > Anyone done any work migrating SEVERAL Access dbs to a single instance > of SQL Server?? > > Particulary interested in any problems this caused etc etc > > Maybe a pointer to things to come. I have been asked to look at > several areas around this subject including building .NET Front Ends > to migrated dbs. > > Martin > > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From Developer at UltraDNT.com Wed Mar 24 08:16:55 2004 From: Developer at UltraDNT.com (Developer) Date: Wed, 24 Mar 2004 09:16:55 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Framework Discussion - set up question In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <000401c411aa$aca34430$6401a8c0@COA3> I;ve been not able to read all the mail on the FW closely for the past week, so sorry if this is a repeat. I "get" the idea, and the form scanning, but I don't see exaclty where to tell the fw that , for example, on 2 different combo's Not In List, I want combo1 to pop a form for data-entry, but combo2 to silently undo and reject the newdata. Should this be set in the Tag property? Tia, Steve From DElam at jenkens.com Wed Mar 24 08:34:58 2004 From: DElam at jenkens.com (Elam, Debbie) Date: Wed, 24 Mar 2004 08:34:58 -0600 Subject: [AccessD] Framework Discussion - Another poll Message-ID: <7B1961ED924D1A459E378C9B1BB22B4C0106BC5D@natexch.jenkens.com> Ditto Debbie -----Original Message----- From: Bobby Heid [mailto:bheid at appdevgrp.com] Sent: Wednesday, March 24, 2004 7:59 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: [AccessD] Framework Discussion - Another poll I'm not able to read the stuff yet, but I have saved everything. I am in the middle of getting ready for another point release for our client. Bobby > -----Original Message----- > From: John W. Colby [mailto:jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com] > Sent: Tuesday, March 23, 2004 10:10 PM > To: AccessD > Subject: [AccessD] Framework Discussion - Another poll > > > I need to take another poll. Would everyone following the discussion > please raise their hands. > > Thanks, > > John W. Colby > www.ColbyConsulting.com > > > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com - JENKENS & GILCHRIST E-MAIL NOTICE - This transmission may be: (1) subject to the Attorney-Client Privilege, (2) an attorney work product, or (3) strictly confidential. If you are not the intended recipient of this message, you may not disclose, print, copy or disseminate this information. If you have received this in error, please reply and notify the sender (only) and delete the message. Unauthorized interception of this e-mail is a violation of federal criminal law. This communication does not reflect an intention by the sender or the sender's client or principal to conduct a transaction or make any agreement by electronic means. Nothing contained in this message or in any attachment shall satisfy the requirements for a writing, and nothing contained herein shall constitute a contract or electronic signature under the Electronic Signatures in Global and National Commerce Act, any version of the Uniform Electronic Transactions Act or any other statute governing electronic transactions. From ggonzalez at cccis.com Wed Mar 24 08:48:07 2004 From: ggonzalez at cccis.com (ggonzalez at cccis.com) Date: Wed, 24 Mar 2004 08:48:07 -0600 Subject: [AccessD] IP Telephony WAS Not enough space on disk In-Reply-To: Message-ID: John, I am currently doing some research on IP telephony to use in some of my applications, is there any websites and or books you can recommend. Thanks, Gumaro "John Clark" .com> cc: Sent by: Subject: Re: [AccessD] Not enough space on disk. accessd-bounces at databasea dvisors.com 03/23/2004 12:54 PM Please respond to Access Developers discussion and problem solving I suspected you might have Novell. I help to administer our Novell network, along with IP telephony and Access programming, and I get asked to increase a user's space restrictions quite often--especially when one of our techs go to the PC and remain logged in as the user. Take care! John W Clark >>> ggonzalez at cccis.com 3/22/2004 3:05:04 PM >>> Yes, Novel is the NOS. It seems that is the problem. Even though I was trying to access local databases the security file that I use is on the network. when I changed the security file locally everything worked fine, I then requested more space on the network and all worked there also. Thanks to everyone for their help. "John Clark" .com> cc: Sent by: Subject: Re: [AccessD] Not enough space on disk. accessd-bounces at databasea dvisors.com 03/22/2004 12:35 PM Please respond to Access Developers discussion and problem solving Are you running on a network at all? If so, what NOS? And, if so, are you logged in as yourself, on the other PCs? >>> ggonzalez at cccis.com 3/22/2004 1:27:01 PM >>> I have tried rebooting and several of the options in the Microsoft knowledge base to no avail. Thanks |---------+------------------------------------> | | Francisco H Tapia | | | | | | Sent by: | | | accessd-bounces at databasea| | | dvisors.com | | | | | | | | | 03/22/2004 12:22 PM | | | Please respond to Access | | | Developers discussion and| | | problem solving | |---------+------------------------------------> >---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------| | | | To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving | | cc: | | Subject: Re: [AccessD] Not enough space on disk. | >---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------| try a reboot like suggested by Gary Kjos, additonally what OS is this running on? win95/98/ME/nt/2k/xp? ggonzalez at cccis.com wrote: > > >I have 3 Gig and 256 of ram > > > > > >How much hdd space is available on your C: for the computer that gets >this error?, how much ram does it have? > > >ggonzalez at cccis.com wrote: > > > >>I am gettin getting this error when I try to open a database on my >>computer. I have plenty od disk space available though. When I go to >>another computer and access the same database I have no problem. >> >>Does anybody have any sugestions why this is happening. >> >>Thanks, Gumaro >> >> >> >> >> > > > > <>-- -Francisco -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From ggonzalez at cccis.com Wed Mar 24 08:55:55 2004 From: ggonzalez at cccis.com (ggonzalez at cccis.com) Date: Wed, 24 Mar 2004 08:55:55 -0600 Subject: [AccessD] Framework Discussion - Another poll In-Reply-To: <001201c41173$6ab5ff40$4915fa51@linceow2000pro> Message-ID: I am From kevinb at bepc.com Wed Mar 24 08:49:49 2004 From: kevinb at bepc.com (Kevin Bachmeier) Date: Wed, 24 Mar 2004 08:49:49 -0600 Subject: [AccessD] Framework Discussion - Another poll Message-ID: I am following. -----Original Message----- From: John W. Colby [mailto:jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com] Sent: Wednesday, March 24, 2004 12:10 AM To: AccessD Subject: [AccessD] Framework Discussion - Another poll I need to take another poll. Would everyone following the discussion please raise their hands. Thanks, John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From nanette.j.gould at Vanderbilt.Edu Wed Mar 24 09:04:06 2004 From: nanette.j.gould at Vanderbilt.Edu (Gould, Nanette) Date: Wed, 24 Mar 2004 09:04:06 -0600 Subject: [AccessD] Framework Discussion - Another poll Message-ID: <7AAEB4CF230ABE41A01BEE6470DC407D15071F@mailbe01> What he said, except for the new job part ... Nanette -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Stoker, Kenneth E Sent: Wednesday, March 24, 2004 12:29 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] Framework Discussion - Another poll Here, Here. I am not reading as closely at the moment, right in the middle of transitioning to a new job, but I am saving everything that even hints at the framework discussion religiously. Ken Stoker From Patricia.O'Connor at DFA.STATE.NY.US Wed Mar 24 09:11:05 2004 From: Patricia.O'Connor at DFA.STATE.NY.US (O'Connor, Patricia ) Date: Wed, 24 Mar 2004 10:11:05 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Framework Discussion - Another poll Message-ID: Keeping all the related mails in a special folder and reading as I can. Thanks so much for doing this John. Patti > -----Original Message----- > From: John W. Colby [mailto:jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com] > Sent: Wednesday, March 24, 2004 01:10 AM > To: AccessD > Subject: [AccessD] Framework Discussion - Another poll > > > I need to take another poll. Would everyone following the > discussion please > raise their hands. > > Thanks, > > John W. Colby > www.ColbyConsulting.com > > > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > From serbach at new.rr.com Wed Mar 24 09:28:56 2004 From: serbach at new.rr.com (Steven W. Erbach) Date: Wed, 24 Mar 2004 09:28:56 -0600 Subject: [AccessD] Framework Discussion - Another poll Message-ID: <20040324092856.1587244701.serbach@new.rr.com> John, http://www.swerbach.com/serbach/pickme.htm Regards, Steve Erbach Scientific Marketing Neenah, WI 920-969-0504 "Don't light a match 'til ya know which end of the dog is barkin'." - Dave Barry From James at fcidms.com Wed Mar 24 09:46:26 2004 From: James at fcidms.com (James Barash) Date: Wed, 24 Mar 2004 10:46:26 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Framework Discussion - Another poll In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <200403241546.KAA14016@twister.bcentralhost.com> It's very hard to type with one hand in the air. James Barash > -----Original Message----- > From: John W. Colby [mailto:jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com] > Sent: Wednesday, March 24, 2004 01:10 AM > To: AccessD > Subject: [AccessD] Framework Discussion - Another poll > > > I need to take another poll. Would everyone following the > discussion please > raise their hands. > > Thanks, > > John W. Colby > www.ColbyConsulting.com > > > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From john at winhaven.net Wed Mar 24 09:46:38 2004 From: john at winhaven.net (John Bartow) Date: Wed, 24 Mar 2004 09:46:38 -0600 Subject: [AccessD] Framework Discussion - Another poll In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Hi John: Right now I'm in catch-up mode but I am following it. Thanks! John B. -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of John W. Colby Sent: Wednesday, March 24, 2004 12:10 AM To: AccessD Subject: [AccessD] Framework Discussion - Another poll I need to take another poll. Would everyone following the discussion please raise their hands. Thanks, John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From garykjos at hotmail.com Wed Mar 24 09:47:33 2004 From: garykjos at hotmail.com (Gary Kjos) Date: Wed, 24 Mar 2004 09:47:33 -0600 Subject: [AccessD] Framework Discussion - Another poll Message-ID: Hand raised. Kind of anyway. Not able to look at the examples you are doing John but I have been reading most of the posts. Gary Kjos garykjos at hotmail.com >From: "John W. Colby" >Reply-To: Access Developers discussion and problem >solving >To: "AccessD" >Subject: [AccessD] Framework Discussion - Another poll >Date: Wed, 24 Mar 2004 01:10:04 -0500 > >I need to take another poll. Would everyone following the discussion >please >raise their hands. > >Thanks, > >John W. Colby >www.ColbyConsulting.com > > >-- >_______________________________________________ >AccessD mailing list >AccessD at databaseadvisors.com >http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd >Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com _________________________________________________________________ Get reliable access on MSN 9 Dial-up. 3 months for the price of 1! (Limited-time offer) http://join.msn.com/?page=dept/dialup&pgmarket=en-us&ST=1/go/onm00200361ave/direct/01/ From cfoust at infostatsystems.com Wed Mar 24 10:03:19 2004 From: cfoust at infostatsystems.com (Charlotte Foust) Date: Wed, 24 Mar 2004 08:03:19 -0800 Subject: [AccessD] Find FE Path? Message-ID: It became available in Access 2000. Charlotte Foust -----Original Message----- From: David Emerson [mailto:davide at dalyn.co.nz] Sent: Wednesday, March 24, 2004 1:26 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Find FE Path? Sander, You can try CurrentProject.Path (not sure which version of Access this was added to). Regards David Emerson Dalyn Software Ltd 25 Cunliffe St, Churton Park Wellington, New Zealand Ph/Fax 0064 4 478-7456 At 24/03/2004, you wrote: >Hi group, > >how can I figure out from wich path the FE was started? >I know how to find the BE path, but how can find the FE? > >Regards, > >Sander > >Do you Yahoo!? >Yahoo! Finance Tax Center - File online. File on time. >-- >_______________________________________________ >AccessD mailing list >AccessD at databaseadvisors.com >http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd >Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From cfoust at infostatsystems.com Wed Mar 24 10:38:06 2004 From: cfoust at infostatsystems.com (Charlotte Foust) Date: Wed, 24 Mar 2004 08:38:06 -0800 Subject: [AccessD] determining the datatype of a bound control Message-ID: John, This will do it if your form's recordsource is a table Dim strCtlSrc As String Dim strDataSrc As String Dim rst As ADODB.Recordset Dim intType As Integer strDataSrc = Me.RecordSource strCtlSrc = txtDOB.ControlSource Set rst = New ADODB.Recordset rst.Open strDataSrc , CurrentProject.Connection, , , adCmdTable intType = rst.Fields(strCtlSrc).Type Assuming the underlying field is a date, this will return a 7, which is adDate Charlotte Foust -----Original Message----- From: John W. Colby [mailto:jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com] Sent: Tuesday, March 23, 2004 12:08 PM To: AccessD Subject: [AccessD] determining the datatype of a bound control I currently determine the data type of the data that a control is displaying by the following code: Dim strCtlSrc As String Dim rst As DAO.Recordset Dim intType As Integer strCtlSrc = txtDOB.ControlSource Set rst = Me.RecordsetClone intType = rst.Fields(strCtlSrc).Type Is there a similar method of getting at this from ADO? John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From my.lists at verizon.net Wed Mar 24 10:39:40 2004 From: my.lists at verizon.net (Francisco H Tapia) Date: Wed, 24 Mar 2004 08:39:40 -0800 Subject: [AccessD] Framework Discussion - Another poll In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <4061B9CC.7080807@verizon.net> John W. Colby wrote: >I need to take another poll. Would everyone following the discussion please >raise their hands. > >Thanks, > >John W. Colby >www.ColbyConsulting.com > > > > you want me replying to your message too while I raise my hands ;) -- -Francisco From mikedorism at adelphia.net Wed Mar 24 10:52:41 2004 From: mikedorism at adelphia.net (Mike & Doris Manning) Date: Wed, 24 Mar 2004 11:52:41 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] OT: Migration to SQL Server In-Reply-To: <002101c4119f$4c219cc0$9111758f@aine> Message-ID: <000001c411c0$6c0caea0$c4194244@hargrove.internal> No. We are just beginning to define user groups now so I didn't really have to go into the security settings that much. Doris Manning Database Administrator Hargrove Inc. www.hargroveinc.com -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Martin Reid Sent: Wednesday, March 24, 2004 7:56 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] OT: Migration to SQL Server Anything special you had to do in terms of SQL Server to assist in managing the resulting databases? for example creating admin users etc Martin ----- Original Message ----- From: "Mike & Doris Manning" To: "'Access Developers discussion and problem solving'" Sent: Wednesday, March 24, 2004 12:27 PM Subject: RE: [AccessD] OT: Migration to SQL Server > Hi Martin, > > I migrated four different Access dbs to a single instance of SQL > Server about a year ago and didn't encounter any problems. > > Doris Manning > Database Administrator > Hargrove Inc. > www.hargroveinc.com > > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Martin Reid > Sent: Tuesday, March 23, 2004 4:58 PM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: [AccessD] OT: Migration to SQL Server > > > Anyone done any work migrating SEVERAL Access dbs to a single instance > of SQL Server?? > > Particulary interested in any problems this caused etc etc > > Maybe a pointer to things to come. I have been asked to look at > several areas around this subject including building .NET Front Ends > to migrated dbs. > > Martin > > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From gustav at cactus.dk Wed Mar 24 10:56:07 2004 From: gustav at cactus.dk (Gustav Brock) Date: Wed, 24 Mar 2004 17:56:07 +0100 Subject: [AccessD] OT: Migration to SQL Server - sort of In-Reply-To: <000301c411aa$1d158a80$6401a8c0@COA3> References: <000301c411aa$1d158a80$6401a8c0@COA3> Message-ID: <14734779490.20040324175607@cactus.dk> Hi Developer How's that? Aren't GUIDs, at the table level, nothing more than strings? /gustav > Not exactly migration, but biggest issue I've had lately with Access > FE's to SQL 2k is that Access can't deal with GUID's. You *must* make > all the queries that join on these types of fields into views because > Access can't relaibly make these joins. From donald.a.Mcgillivray at mail.sprint.com Wed Mar 24 10:57:46 2004 From: donald.a.Mcgillivray at mail.sprint.com (Mcgillivray, Donald [ITS]) Date: Wed, 24 Mar 2004 10:57:46 -0600 Subject: [AccessD] Framework Discussion - Another poll Message-ID: <6FC1C7A6E7BD5540AB0A8436713C43BF0791E173@PKDWB01C.ad.sprint.com> Present. Don McGillivray From jwelz at hotmail.com Wed Mar 24 11:24:03 2004 From: jwelz at hotmail.com (Jürgen Welz) Date: Wed, 24 Mar 2004 10:24:03 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] Framework Discussion - Another poll Message-ID: I read most posts at this list including those by John Colby as it is usually possible to learn from others' trials and tribulations. I think it would have been appropriate to place a no archive in the original post for those who hit 'Reply'. Why a second poll? These look like 'me too' in my inbox and as gratifying as that may be to John, I would propose to moderators that responses to polls should require the no archive term in the body of either the poll or responses. Ciao J?rgen Welz Edmonton, Alberta jwelz at hotmail.com _________________________________________________________________ MSN Premium includes powerful parental controls and get 2 months FREE* http://join.msn.com/?pgmarket=en-ca&page=byoa/prem&xAPID=1994&DI=1034&SU=http://hotmail.com/enca&HL=Market_MSNIS_Taglines From Developer at UltraDNT.com Wed Mar 24 11:30:55 2004 From: Developer at UltraDNT.com (Developer) Date: Wed, 24 Mar 2004 12:30:55 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] OT: Migration to SQL Server - sort of In-Reply-To: <14734779490.20040324175607@cactus.dk> Message-ID: <003401c411c5$c6868270$6401a8c0@COA3> Yes, they are but, specifically, on an Access-2K2 FE to SQL-2K BE, I had a customer table, and I wanted a result set with 4 different FK's joined in, to see the "friendly" names of the customer properties (region, business type, etc.). This inherited database had guid's for primary keys in everything, even these nearly-static tables like business type. The Access query (joining the linked tables) had nulls in many of the cells, but returned the right data in some places, while a view I created on the server correctly filled in all the data. I did NO investigation on it, I just linked to the view and went on with life! Steve -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Gustav Brock Sent: Wednesday, March 24, 2004 11:56 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] OT: Migration to SQL Server - sort of Hi Developer How's that? Aren't GUIDs, at the table level, nothing more than strings? /gustav > Not exactly migration, but biggest issue I've had lately with Access > FE's to SQL 2k is that Access can't deal with GUID's. You *must* make > all the queries that join on these types of fields into views because > Access can't relaibly make these joins. -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From john at winhaven.net Wed Mar 24 11:37:36 2004 From: john at winhaven.net (John Bartow) Date: Wed, 24 Mar 2004 11:37:36 -0600 Subject: [AccessD] Framework Discussion - Another poll In-Reply-To: Message-ID: J?rgen is correct I should have responded directly to John, sorry J?rgen, etal! I can see John's point of asking as this takes a lot of time and there hasn't been all that much discussion on certain parts lately so it begs to ask "is it worth him continuing the series". I think that it definitely is and next time he needs to reaffirm that I hope I remember to reply directly to him. John B. -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of J?rgen Welz Sent: Wednesday, March 24, 2004 11:24 AM To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: RE: [AccessD] Framework Discussion - Another poll I read most posts at this list including those by John Colby as it is usually possible to learn from others' trials and tribulations. I think it would have been appropriate to place a no archive in the original post for those who hit 'Reply'. Why a second poll? These look like 'me too' in my inbox and as gratifying as that may be to John, I would propose to moderators that responses to polls should require the no archive term in the body of either the poll or responses. Ciao J?rgen Welz Edmonton, Alberta jwelz at hotmail.com _________________________________________________________________ MSN Premium includes powerful parental controls and get 2 months FREE* http://join.msn.com/?pgmarket=en-ca&page=byoa/prem&xAPID=1994&DI=1034&SU=htt p://hotmail.com/enca&HL=Market_MSNIS_Taglines -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From cfoust at infostatsystems.com Wed Mar 24 11:58:51 2004 From: cfoust at infostatsystems.com (Charlotte Foust) Date: Wed, 24 Mar 2004 09:58:51 -0800 Subject: [AccessD] OT: Migration to SQL Server - sort of Message-ID: They're something more than strings, Gustav. I've worked with them in Access and frankly, it wasn't worth the effort, so I abandoned them. Of course Access can deal with GUIDs, since that is what replication uses. It just ain't pretty and requires a LOT of coding and work. You can't do simple comparisons on them, and they're generally painful. Charlotte Foust -----Original Message----- From: Gustav Brock [mailto:gustav at cactus.dk] Sent: Wednesday, March 24, 2004 8:56 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] OT: Migration to SQL Server - sort of Hi Developer How's that? Aren't GUIDs, at the table level, nothing more than strings? /gustav > Not exactly migration, but biggest issue I've had lately with Access > FE's to SQL 2k is that Access can't deal with GUID's. You *must* make > all the queries that join on these types of fields into views because > Access can't relaibly make these joins. -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From Bryan_Carbonnell at cbc.ca Wed Mar 24 11:51:20 2004 From: Bryan_Carbonnell at cbc.ca (Bryan Carbonnell) Date: Wed, 24 Mar 2004 12:51:20 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Framework Discussion - Another poll Message-ID: Actually there is absolutely no reason to add no archive. It does nothing except take up more space. "No Archive" or no "No Archive" it still ends up in the DBA archive. Drew's archive may be different. However, the replys really should have gone to John directly, IMpersonalO. Bryan Carbonnell bryan_carbonnell at cbc.ca Your friendly listmaster at work. >>> jwelz at hotmail.com 24-Mar-04 12:24:03 PM >>> I read most posts at this list including those by John Colby as it is usually possible to learn from others' trials and tribulations. I think it would have been appropriate to place a no archive in the original post for those who hit 'Reply'. Why a second poll? These look like 'me too' in my inbox and as gratifying as that may be to John, I would propose to moderators that responses to polls should require the no archive term in the body of either the poll or responses. From DWUTKA at marlow.com Wed Mar 24 12:52:58 2004 From: DWUTKA at marlow.com (DWUTKA at marlow.com) Date: Wed, 24 Mar 2004 12:52:58 -0600 Subject: [AccessD] VBE Error Handler Message-ID: <2F8793082E00D4119A1700B0D0216BF8022279A9@main2.marlow.com> Okay, before I get volunteered for a new project, what exactly are we trying to accomplish. Only been eyeballing the threads lately.... Drew -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of John W. Colby Sent: Wednesday, March 24, 2004 6:23 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] VBE Error Handler >grmbl. Yea, I understand. Unfortunately I am not a VB kind of guy. I "wrote" the original but it was in Access. I don't event own VB (non .NET version anyway). You might beg and plead with Drew Wutka. He is very handy with VB and loves a challenge. It would also give him a chance to get up to his elbows in my old code and moan about it. I know Seth moaned a bit. John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of S D Sent: Wednesday, March 24, 2004 1:33 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] VBE Error Handler grmbl. A pitty. I think I'm going to try using you're error handler and some copy/paste/replace stuff...or copy it into a textfile and write a litte prog to do the replacing. Thanks anyway. Sander PS: A couple of weeks back I saw my first MS-Access 2.0 app from 1995 or so....oi, PS1 was not completely applicable but....although normalization was correct and it still works like a charm :-) "John W. Colby" wrote: LOL to the whole message!!! In particular the PS1: I feel for you, but with any luck it will generate prodigious revenue as you clean it up. The error handler wizard is in VB and is under the care of Seth Galitzer. This sounds like a very custom mod which you would probably have to make. John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of S D Sent: Tuesday, March 23, 2004 9:34 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] VBE Error Handler We use a VB function to create a standard message. We use this in all (500+) applications. I don't won't to break the line of work. Problem is we enherited a HUGE Access app (250+ tables, 300+ forms, 7(!?!) modules) So we've got the following line in all our error handling: Call GenErr("Switchdatabase.Form_Startscherm", "Form_Load") TIA Sander PS1: according to the programmer of this beast: - 'normalization'? What's that, a snack? - a function is never used more then once - dim a, b, c as string creates 3 strings.... - dim blnError as String blnError = "0" blnError = "1" blnError = "incorrect" aaahhhhrg..... "John W. Colby" wrote: In short, it is not "programmable". The message the user gets is the native Access error plus the function / module name. What did you have in mind? John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of S D Sent: Tuesday, March 23, 2004 8:20 AM To: accessd Subject: [AccessD] VBE Error Handler Hi group, i downloaded the VBE Error Handler dll from www.databaseadvisors written by John Colby. I really love this program....almost. It works great however I want to change the message that the user gets. Is that possible? Thnx in advance. Regards Sander Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Finance Tax Center - File online. File on time. -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Finance Tax Center - File online. File on time. -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Finance Tax Center - File online. File on time. -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From rl_stewart at highstream.net Wed Mar 24 12:57:54 2004 From: rl_stewart at highstream.net (Robert L. Stewart) Date: Wed, 24 Mar 2004 12:57:54 -0600 Subject: [AccessD] Re: Migration to SQL Server In-Reply-To: <200403240532.i2O5WnM20775@databaseadvisors.com> Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20040324125248.0298c200@pop3.highstream.net> Martin, Been there, done that. Make sure you use a number of file groups and that the tables are split between them. This will give you better performance because a thread is opened whenever SQL Server has to go to another file group for another table. Make sure you rename primary keys and indexes in SQL Server to whatever standard you setup. Use the Diagram tool to create "subject areas" so you can easily see relationships instead of having to navigate all the tables. Be ready to change the queries that you use to views to increase performance. Robert At 11:32 PM 3/23/2004 -0600, you wrote: >Date: Tue, 23 Mar 2004 21:58:02 -0000 >From: "Martin Reid" >Subject: [AccessD] OT: Migration to SQL Server >To: "Access Developers discussion and problem solving" > >Message-ID: <005101c41121$eaed9c10$1b02a8c0 at MARTINREID> >Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" > >Anyone done any work migrating SEVERAL Access dbs to a single instance of >SQL Server?? > >Particulary interested in any problems this caused etc etc > >Maybe a pointer to things to come. I have been asked to look at several >areas around this subject including building .NET Front Ends to migrated >dbs. > >Martin From DWUTKA at marlow.com Wed Mar 24 13:12:36 2004 From: DWUTKA at marlow.com (DWUTKA at marlow.com) Date: Wed, 24 Mar 2004 13:12:36 -0600 Subject: [AccessD] Framework Discussion - Another poll Message-ID: <2F8793082E00D4119A1700B0D0216BF8022279AA@main2.marlow.com> I was JUST going to ask that. I didn't know what the site was doing, as far as the 'new' archives. My archives don't care what you put in your posts. It archives and indexes every message that comes through. The only two issues with my archives are posts that come in as attachments (my code doesn't go through attachments, it's a pain), and if you have words that are more then 255 characters long. (Let's not try that, because I would just have to go in and delete the post.) Drew -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Bryan Carbonnell Sent: Wednesday, March 24, 2004 11:51 AM To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: RE: [AccessD] Framework Discussion - Another poll Actually there is absolutely no reason to add no archive. It does nothing except take up more space. "No Archive" or no "No Archive" it still ends up in the DBA archive. Drew's archive may be different. However, the replys really should have gone to John directly, IMpersonalO. Bryan Carbonnell bryan_carbonnell at cbc.ca Your friendly listmaster at work. >>> jwelz at hotmail.com 24-Mar-04 12:24:03 PM >>> I read most posts at this list including those by John Colby as it is usually possible to learn from others' trials and tribulations. I think it would have been appropriate to place a no archive in the original post for those who hit 'Reply'. Why a second poll? These look like 'me too' in my inbox and as gratifying as that may be to John, I would propose to moderators that responses to polls should require the no archive term in the body of either the poll or responses. -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From doug at murphyscreativity.com Wed Mar 24 13:14:21 2004 From: doug at murphyscreativity.com (Doug Murphy) Date: Wed, 24 Mar 2004 11:14:21 -0800 Subject: [AccessD] VBE Error Handler In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <003501c411d4$36785050$8500a8c0@CX615377a> MZ Tools has a pretty nice error handler insertion feature. The handler is customizable. Works in all versions of Access from 2000 on. Doug -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of John W. Colby Sent: Wednesday, March 24, 2004 4:23 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] VBE Error Handler >grmbl. Yea, I understand. Unfortunately I am not a VB kind of guy. I "wrote" the original but it was in Access. I don't event own VB (non .NET version anyway). You might beg and plead with Drew Wutka. He is very handy with VB and loves a challenge. It would also give him a chance to get up to his elbows in my old code and moan about it. I know Seth moaned a bit. John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of S D Sent: Wednesday, March 24, 2004 1:33 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] VBE Error Handler grmbl. A pitty. I think I'm going to try using you're error handler and some copy/paste/replace stuff...or copy it into a textfile and write a litte prog to do the replacing. Thanks anyway. Sander PS: A couple of weeks back I saw my first MS-Access 2.0 app from 1995 or so....oi, PS1 was not completely applicable but....although normalization was correct and it still works like a charm :-) "John W. Colby" wrote: LOL to the whole message!!! In particular the PS1: I feel for you, but with any luck it will generate prodigious revenue as you clean it up. The error handler wizard is in VB and is under the care of Seth Galitzer. This sounds like a very custom mod which you would probably have to make. John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of S D Sent: Tuesday, March 23, 2004 9:34 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] VBE Error Handler We use a VB function to create a standard message. We use this in all (500+) applications. I don't won't to break the line of work. Problem is we enherited a HUGE Access app (250+ tables, 300+ forms, 7(!?!) modules) So we've got the following line in all our error handling: Call GenErr("Switchdatabase.Form_Startscherm", "Form_Load") TIA Sander PS1: according to the programmer of this beast: - 'normalization'? What's that, a snack? - a function is never used more then once - dim a, b, c as string creates 3 strings.... - dim blnError as String blnError = "0" blnError = "1" blnError = "incorrect" aaahhhhrg..... "John W. Colby" wrote: In short, it is not "programmable". The message the user gets is the native Access error plus the function / module name. What did you have in mind? John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of S D Sent: Tuesday, March 23, 2004 8:20 AM To: accessd Subject: [AccessD] VBE Error Handler Hi group, i downloaded the VBE Error Handler dll from www.databaseadvisors written by John Colby. I really love this program....almost. It works great however I want to change the message that the user gets. Is that possible? Thnx in advance. Regards Sander Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Finance Tax Center - File online. File on time. -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Finance Tax Center - File online. File on time. -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Finance Tax Center - File online. File on time. -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From rl_stewart at highstream.net Wed Mar 24 13:40:59 2004 From: rl_stewart at highstream.net (Robert L. Stewart) Date: Wed, 24 Mar 2004 13:40:59 -0600 Subject: [AccessD] Re: Framework Discussion - Another poll In-Reply-To: <200403241407.i2OE79M00548@databaseadvisors.com> Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20040324134043.029c64f0@pop3.highstream.net> Hand raised. At 08:07 AM 3/24/2004 -0600, you wrote: >Date: Wed, 24 Mar 2004 01:10:04 -0500 >From: "John W. Colby" >Subject: [AccessD] Framework Discussion - Another poll >To: "AccessD" >Message-ID: >Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" > >I need to take another poll. Would everyone following the discussion please >raise their hands. > >Thanks, > >John W. Colby >www.ColbyConsulting.com From Bryan_Carbonnell at cbc.ca Wed Mar 24 13:47:18 2004 From: Bryan_Carbonnell at cbc.ca (Bryan Carbonnell) Date: Wed, 24 Mar 2004 14:47:18 -0500 Subject: List and Archive Details was (RE: [AccessD] Framework Discussion - Another poll) Message-ID: The dba archives everything that makes it to the list. Everything. I suppose if I knew Python I could hack the code and have it check for the words "No Archive" and not archive it. Since I don't know Python, I can't see it happening anytime soon :) You should only have one issue, with your archive then. The list software is set to strip ALL attachments and reduce HTML posts to plain text. ANd if someone has a word that is longer than 255 characters, they have have more pressing issues than archiving it :-)) Bryan Carbonnell bryan_carbonnell at cbc.ca Your neighbourhood listmaster at work. >>> DWUTKA at marlow.com 24-Mar-04 2:12:36 PM >>> I was JUST going to ask that. I didn't know what the site was doing, as far as the 'new' archives. My archives don't care what you put in your posts. It archives and indexes every message that comes through. The only two issues with my archives are posts that come in as attachments (my code doesn't go through attachments, it's a pain), and if you have words that are more then 255 characters long. (Let's not try that, because I would just have to go in and delete the post.) Drew -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Bryan Carbonnell Sent: Wednesday, March 24, 2004 11:51 AM To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: RE: [AccessD] Framework Discussion - Another poll Actually there is absolutely no reason to add no archive. It does nothing except take up more space. "No Archive" or no "No Archive" it still ends up in the DBA archive. Drew's archive may be different. However, the replys really should have gone to John directly, IMpersonalO. Bryan Carbonnell bryan_carbonnell at cbc.ca Your friendly listmaster at work. From jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com Wed Mar 24 14:20:25 2004 From: jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com (John W. Colby) Date: Wed, 24 Mar 2004 15:20:25 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Framework Discussion - Another poll In-Reply-To: <20040324092856.1587244701.serbach@new.rr.com> Message-ID: ROTFL!!! John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Steven W. Erbach Sent: Wednesday, March 24, 2004 10:29 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Framework Discussion - Another poll John, http://www.swerbach.com/serbach/pickme.htm Regards, Steve Erbach Scientific Marketing Neenah, WI 920-969-0504 "Don't light a match 'til ya know which end of the dog is barkin'." - Dave Barry -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com Wed Mar 24 14:23:35 2004 From: jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com (John W. Colby) Date: Wed, 24 Mar 2004 15:23:35 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] determining the datatype of a bound control In-Reply-To: Message-ID: This is cool. Mil Gracias. Since you responded, is there any way to do the RecordsetClone thing in ADO? John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Charlotte Foust Sent: Wednesday, March 24, 2004 11:38 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] determining the datatype of a bound control John, This will do it if your form's recordsource is a table Dim strCtlSrc As String Dim strDataSrc As String Dim rst As ADODB.Recordset Dim intType As Integer strDataSrc = Me.RecordSource strCtlSrc = txtDOB.ControlSource Set rst = New ADODB.Recordset rst.Open strDataSrc , CurrentProject.Connection, , , adCmdTable intType = rst.Fields(strCtlSrc).Type Assuming the underlying field is a date, this will return a 7, which is adDate Charlotte Foust -----Original Message----- From: John W. Colby [mailto:jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com] Sent: Tuesday, March 23, 2004 12:08 PM To: AccessD Subject: [AccessD] determining the datatype of a bound control I currently determine the data type of the data that a control is displaying by the following code: Dim strCtlSrc As String Dim rst As DAO.Recordset Dim intType As Integer strCtlSrc = txtDOB.ControlSource Set rst = Me.RecordsetClone intType = rst.Fields(strCtlSrc).Type Is there a similar method of getting at this from ADO? John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com Wed Mar 24 14:51:20 2004 From: jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com (John W. Colby) Date: Wed, 24 Mar 2004 15:51:20 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] determining the datatype of a bound control In-Reply-To: Message-ID: I just got the "if it's a table" part. That's not so nice since many forms are bound to queries. John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Charlotte Foust Sent: Wednesday, March 24, 2004 11:38 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] determining the datatype of a bound control John, This will do it if your form's recordsource is a table Dim strCtlSrc As String Dim strDataSrc As String Dim rst As ADODB.Recordset Dim intType As Integer strDataSrc = Me.RecordSource strCtlSrc = txtDOB.ControlSource Set rst = New ADODB.Recordset rst.Open strDataSrc , CurrentProject.Connection, , , adCmdTable intType = rst.Fields(strCtlSrc).Type Assuming the underlying field is a date, this will return a 7, which is adDate Charlotte Foust -----Original Message----- From: John W. Colby [mailto:jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com] Sent: Tuesday, March 23, 2004 12:08 PM To: AccessD Subject: [AccessD] determining the datatype of a bound control I currently determine the data type of the data that a control is displaying by the following code: Dim strCtlSrc As String Dim rst As DAO.Recordset Dim intType As Integer strCtlSrc = txtDOB.ControlSource Set rst = Me.RecordsetClone intType = rst.Fields(strCtlSrc).Type Is there a similar method of getting at this from ADO? John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com Wed Mar 24 15:31:23 2004 From: jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com (John W. Colby) Date: Wed, 24 Mar 2004 16:31:23 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Framework Discussion - Another poll In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Sorry Jurgen, the last poll had about 10-15 responses and I expected less this time. I'm just trying to figure out whether to keep going on this series. Of course I should have requested responses off line. John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of J?rgen Welz Sent: Wednesday, March 24, 2004 12:24 PM To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: RE: [AccessD] Framework Discussion - Another poll I read most posts at this list including those by John Colby as it is usually possible to learn from others' trials and tribulations. I think it would have been appropriate to place a no archive in the original post for those who hit 'Reply'. Why a second poll? These look like 'me too' in my inbox and as gratifying as that may be to John, I would propose to moderators that responses to polls should require the no archive term in the body of either the poll or responses. Ciao J?rgen Welz Edmonton, Alberta jwelz at hotmail.com _________________________________________________________________ MSN Premium includes powerful parental controls and get 2 months FREE* http://join.msn.com/?pgmarket=en-ca&page=byoa/prem&xAPID=1994&DI=1034&SU=htt p://hotmail.com/enca&HL=Market_MSNIS_Taglines -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From DWUTKA at marlow.com Wed Mar 24 15:45:10 2004 From: DWUTKA at marlow.com (DWUTKA at marlow.com) Date: Wed, 24 Mar 2004 15:45:10 -0600 Subject: [AccessD] Framework Discussion - Another poll Message-ID: <2F8793082E00D4119A1700B0D0216BF8022279B0@main2.marlow.com> John, what you are doing is definitely GOOD for AccessD. Posts don't always have to be Q & A. Just plain informative stuff is great reading and can come in quite handy. How many times have you been hitting your head against the wall, wondering how to tackle a problem? I mean, no clue where to start, and no clue what to even ask anyone. Then you read something that you think is unrelated, but it turns out to either nail the problem down, or at least give you a foot hold to start working the issue. I didn't 'raise my hand', because quite frankly I have only been scanning your posts. I understand everything, and use most of the same concepts in my own stuff. I'm just scanning for ideas I might want to implement. Drew -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of John W. Colby Sent: Wednesday, March 24, 2004 3:31 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] Framework Discussion - Another poll Sorry Jurgen, the last poll had about 10-15 responses and I expected less this time. I'm just trying to figure out whether to keep going on this series. Of course I should have requested responses off line. John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of J?rgen Welz Sent: Wednesday, March 24, 2004 12:24 PM To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: RE: [AccessD] Framework Discussion - Another poll I read most posts at this list including those by John Colby as it is usually possible to learn from others' trials and tribulations. I think it would have been appropriate to place a no archive in the original post for those who hit 'Reply'. Why a second poll? These look like 'me too' in my inbox and as gratifying as that may be to John, I would propose to moderators that responses to polls should require the no archive term in the body of either the poll or responses. Ciao J?rgen Welz Edmonton, Alberta jwelz at hotmail.com _________________________________________________________________ MSN Premium includes powerful parental controls and get 2 months FREE* http://join.msn.com/?pgmarket=en-ca&page=byoa/prem&xAPID=1994&DI=1034&SU=htt p://hotmail.com/enca&HL=Market_MSNIS_Taglines -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From artful at rogers.com Wed Mar 24 18:44:34 2004 From: artful at rogers.com (Arthur Fuller) Date: Wed, 24 Mar 2004 16:44:34 -0800 Subject: [AccessD] Bind Data Entry Form to Table In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <01e201c41202$5de85bc0$6501a8c0@rock> In my experience, there is no down side to doing this. Nor to a query that looks up some related fields in the same model. Arthur -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Bryan Carbonnell Sent: Tuesday, March 23, 2004 12:17 PM To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: [AccessD] Bind Data Entry Form to Table Is there a downside to binding a Data Entry Only Form to a table instead of a query? I have a form (subform of an unbound form actually) that will be used strictly for Data Entry and I was thinking of binding it to the table directly instead of through a query. The only downside that I can think of is that I won't be able to sort the recordsource, but since its DE only, that doesn't matter. Is there anyreason I shouldn't do it like this? Bryan Carbonnell bryan_carbonnell at cbc.ca -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From KIsmert at TexasSystems.com Wed Mar 24 15:53:15 2004 From: KIsmert at TexasSystems.com (Ken Ismert) Date: Wed, 24 Mar 2004 15:53:15 -0600 Subject: [AccessD] Framework Discussion - Another poll In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <007201c411ea$699f3f00$2a3ca8c0@TEXASSYSTEMS.COM> IO'M HJERRE!q!q!q HJAZRED TOL TYPED WITH JKUST EL.BOWSSX I'm here!!! (hard to type with just elbows) -Ken -----Original Message----- From: John W. Colby [mailto:jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com] Sent: Wednesday, March 24, 2004 12:10 AM To: AccessD Subject: [AccessD] Framework Discussion - Another poll I need to take another poll. Would everyone following the discussion please raise their hands. Thanks, John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com From Patricia.O'Connor at DFA.STATE.NY.US Wed Mar 24 15:53:36 2004 From: Patricia.O'Connor at DFA.STATE.NY.US (O'Connor, Patricia ) Date: Wed, 24 Mar 2004 16:53:36 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] VBE Error Handler - MZ_TOOLS Message-ID: Does MZ_TOOL's error handler - handle connection errors or just regular access errors? I know I could download the tool - but would rather know if it was worth it beforehand. Besides the error handler is there other things in this tool that make it worthwhile Thanks Patti example Dim cnn As New ADODB.Connection Dim objErr As ADODB.Error If cnn.Errors.Count > 0 Then For Each objErr In cnn.Errors Select Case objErr.NativeError Case 942 NoTable = True Exit For Case Else strError = Error_Rtn(cnn.Errors) Exit For End Select Next cnn.Errors.Clear If NoTable Then Resume Next Else fExpFsMoYrTable = False Resume Exit_fExpFsMoYrTable End If End If > -----Original Message----- > From: Doug Murphy [mailto:doug at murphyscreativity.com] > Sent: Wednesday, March 24, 2004 02:14 PM > To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' > Subject: RE: [AccessD] VBE Error Handler > > > MZ Tools has a pretty nice error handler insertion feature. > The handler > is customizable. Works in all versions of Access from 2000 on. > > Doug > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of > John W. Colby > Sent: Wednesday, March 24, 2004 4:23 AM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: RE: [AccessD] VBE Error Handler > > > >grmbl. > > Yea, I understand. Unfortunately I am not a VB kind of guy. > I "wrote" > the original but it was in Access. I don't event own VB (non .NET > version anyway). > > You might beg and plead with Drew Wutka. He is very handy with VB and > loves a challenge. It would also give him a chance to get up to his > elbows in my old code and moan about it. I know Seth moaned a bit. > > > > John W. Colby > www.ColbyConsulting.com > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of S D > Sent: Wednesday, March 24, 2004 1:33 AM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: RE: [AccessD] VBE Error Handler > > > grmbl. > > A pitty. I think I'm going to try using you're error handler and some > copy/paste/replace stuff...or copy it into a textfile and > write a litte > prog to do the replacing. > > Thanks anyway. > > Sander > > PS: A couple of weeks back I saw my first MS-Access 2.0 app > from 1995 or > so....oi, PS1 was not completely applicable but....although > normalization was correct and it still works like a charm :-) > > "John W. Colby" wrote: > LOL to the whole message!!! In particular the PS1: I feel for you, but > with any luck it will generate prodigious revenue as you clean it up. > > The error handler wizard is in VB and is under the care of Seth > Galitzer. This sounds like a very custom mod which you would probably > have to make. > > John W. Colby > www.ColbyConsulting.com > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of S D > Sent: Tuesday, March 23, 2004 9:34 AM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: RE: [AccessD] VBE Error Handler > > > We use a VB function to create a standard message. We use this in all > (500+) applications. > > I don't won't to break the line of work. > Problem is we enherited a HUGE Access app (250+ tables, 300+ forms, > 7(!?!) > modules) > > So we've got the following line in all our error handling: > Call GenErr("Switchdatabase.Form_Startscherm", "Form_Load") > > TIA > > Sander > > PS1: according to the programmer of this beast: > - 'normalization'? What's that, a snack? > - a function is never used more then once > - dim a, b, c as string creates 3 strings.... > - dim blnError as String > blnError = "0" > blnError = "1" > blnError = "incorrect" aaahhhhrg..... > > > "John W. Colby" wrote: > In short, it is not "programmable". > > The message the user gets is the native Access error plus the > function / > module name. What did you have in mind? > > John W. Colby > www.ColbyConsulting.com > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of S D > Sent: Tuesday, March 23, 2004 8:20 AM > To: accessd > Subject: [AccessD] VBE Error Handler > > > Hi group, > > i downloaded the VBE Error Handler dll from > www.databaseadvisors written > by John Colby. I really love this program....almost. > > It works great however I want to change the message that the > user gets. > Is that possible? > > Thnx in advance. > > Regards > > Sander > > Do you Yahoo!? > Yahoo! Finance Tax Center - File online. File on time. > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > Do you Yahoo!? > Yahoo! Finance Tax Center - File online. File on time. > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > Do you Yahoo!? > Yahoo! Finance Tax Center - File online. File on time. > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > From artful at rogers.com Wed Mar 24 19:10:25 2004 From: artful at rogers.com (Arthur Fuller) Date: Wed, 24 Mar 2004 17:10:25 -0800 Subject: [AccessD] Framework Discussion - Another poll In-Reply-To: <1749581136.20040324105609@cactus.dk> Message-ID: <01e701c41205$f43d21c0$6501a8c0@rock> I am, but admittedly with reservations. Back in the dinosaur age I wrote a lot of stuff vaguely similar, and subsequently discarded for performance reasons. That was back when all you could count on was 640K or maybe 1MB of RAM. But perhaps the analysis still obtains. As I see it, there are two poles: 1. Write everything O-O and have the framework figure out what to do at run-time. 2. Regen the entire app so nothing has to be figured out at run-time and everything will therefore perform much more quickly. I'm not yet sold either way. Or perhaps more accurately, I am sold one way or the other depending upon the app's requirements. Given 1000 users, development time is trivial compared to execution time. Given 10 users, development time is much more significant. IMO, if performance is paramount, data-driven doesn't cut it. But there are lots of apps in which performance is not paramount, and in that case data-driven may be the right way to go. I wrote a lib a long time ago which was based on data-driven tech. Turned out the California Red Cross was one of our biggest customers. In their context, the performance-hit for data-driven was a serious problem. Heart-pacers were at stake, and various other machines. Any possible performance-hit had to die, else some patient might. 120 users to start, it later got a lot bigger; seconds mattered big time: every fraction of every second mattered big-time. Not to say every app is like that. Just to say that I have learned the hard way that when performance is paramount, data-driven loses. When it is not paramount, data-driven wins pretty much hands down. My $.02. Arthur -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Gustav Brock Sent: Wednesday, March 24, 2004 1:56 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Framework Discussion - Another poll Hi John I do. /gustav > I need to take another poll. Would everyone following the discussion > please raise their hands. -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From john at winhaven.net Wed Mar 24 16:42:25 2004 From: john at winhaven.net (John Bartow) Date: Wed, 24 Mar 2004 16:42:25 -0600 Subject: [AccessD] Framework Discussion - Another poll In-Reply-To: <2F8793082E00D4119A1700B0D0216BF8022279B0@main2.marlow.com> Message-ID: Exactly what has happened here - many a time! Drew Wrote: Then you read something that you think is unrelated, but it turns out to either nail the problem down, or at least give you a foot hold to start working the issue. From JHewson at karta.com Wed Mar 24 16:47:42 2004 From: JHewson at karta.com (Jim Hewson) Date: Wed, 24 Mar 2004 16:47:42 -0600 Subject: [AccessD] Framework Discussion - Another poll Message-ID: <9C382E065F54AE48BC3AA7925DCBB01C1A6A6D@karta-exc-int.Karta.com> I have not had the time to read the posts, John. I will go back and read them when I can. I have been on vacation for the last two weeks (I'm in Guangzhou, China reading emails in my hotel room). I thought it interesting that the poll came out at first and wondered why. Now, I am glad it did. I didn't realize so many people were interested in the subject. I believe that the public display of this poll serves as a reminder to all that the subject is important and deserves all the time necessary to understand the concepts. Thanks John. Jim ________________________________ From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com on behalf of John W. Colby Sent: Wed 3/24/2004 3:31 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] Framework Discussion - Another poll Sorry Jurgen, the last poll had about 10-15 responses and I expected less this time. I'm just trying to figure out whether to keep going on this series. Of course I should have requested responses off line. John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of J?rgen Welz Sent: Wednesday, March 24, 2004 12:24 PM To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: RE: [AccessD] Framework Discussion - Another poll I read most posts at this list including those by John Colby as it is usually possible to learn from others' trials and tribulations. I think it would have been appropriate to place a no archive in the original post for those who hit 'Reply'. Why a second poll? These look like 'me too' in my inbox and as gratifying as that may be to John, I would propose to moderators that responses to polls should require the no archive term in the body of either the poll or responses. Ciao J?rgen Welz Edmonton, Alberta jwelz at hotmail.com _________________________________________________________________ MSN Premium includes powerful parental controls and get 2 months FREE* http://join.msn.com/?pgmarket=en-ca&page=byoa/prem&xAPID=1994&DI=1034&SU=htt p://hotmail.com/enca&HL=Market_MSNIS_Taglines -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From MPorter at acsalaska.com Wed Mar 24 16:54:04 2004 From: MPorter at acsalaska.com (Porter, Mark) Date: Wed, 24 Mar 2004 13:54:04 -0900 Subject: [AccessD] Framework Discussion - Another poll Message-ID: I have not been active at all in this thread but have been lurking on it as I always do. I've moved on from Access to Enterprise Applications where almost everything is data driven - Siebel being my latest gig. I remain a member of this list because of the discussions and ideas which are commonly generated here. Siebel (and SAP, PeopleSoft, take your pick) is basically a big data driven framework on a large scale, yet similar to what you are implementing and discussing. Working with it and other apps for the past few years has given me a lot of ideas on how software could be implemented and structured within frameworks or common code sets in other applications, most notabily Access since that was my first platform. If I ever go back to 'ground-up' development, I'll definately create a framework of a type to make things as non-repetitive as possible. I have not done a lot of digging into your framework but I know this - your framework works for YOU. Just like my framework would work for ME. You may hear that people don't want to use your framework and that is fine. However, I still like to read the discussions because I'm more interested in the ideas behind it and how it is implemented. So please continue your writeups and discussions. Even if it isn't used by others, the discussions may still spark ideas. Mark > -----Original Message----- > From: Arthur Fuller [mailto:artful at rogers.com] > Sent: Wednesday, March 24, 2004 4:10 PM > To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' > Subject: RE: [AccessD] Framework Discussion - Another poll > > > I am, but admittedly with reservations. Back in the dinosaur > age I wrote > a lot of stuff vaguely similar, and subsequently discarded for > performance reasons. That was back when all you could count > on was 640K > or maybe 1MB of RAM. But perhaps the analysis still obtains. > > As I see it, there are two poles: > > 1. Write everything O-O and have the framework figure out > what to do at > run-time. > > 2. Regen the entire app so nothing has to be figured out at > run-time and > everything will therefore perform much more quickly. > > I'm not yet sold either way. Or perhaps more accurately, I am sold one > way or the other depending upon the app's requirements. Given 1000 > users, development time is trivial compared to execution > time. Given 10 > users, development time is much more significant. IMO, if > performance is > paramount, data-driven doesn't cut it. But there are lots of apps in > which performance is not paramount, and in that case > data-driven may be > the right way to go. > > I wrote a lib a long time ago which was based on data-driven tech. > Turned out the California Red Cross was one of our biggest > customers. In > their context, the performance-hit for data-driven was a serious > problem. Heart-pacers were at stake, and various other machines. Any > possible performance-hit had to die, else some patient might. > 120 users > to start, it later got a lot bigger; seconds mattered big time: every > fraction of every second mattered big-time. > > Not to say every app is like that. Just to say that I have learned the > hard way that when performance is paramount, data-driven > loses. When it > is not paramount, data-driven wins pretty much hands down. > > My $.02. > > Arthur > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of > Gustav Brock > Sent: Wednesday, March 24, 2004 1:56 AM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: Re: [AccessD] Framework Discussion - Another poll > > > Hi John > > I do. > > /gustav > > > > I need to take another poll. Would everyone following the > discussion > > please raise their hands. > > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > From doug at murphyscreativity.com Wed Mar 24 16:57:28 2004 From: doug at murphyscreativity.com (Doug Murphy) Date: Wed, 24 Mar 2004 14:57:28 -0800 Subject: [AccessD] VBE Error Handler - MZ_TOOLS In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <001101c411f3$639d8810$8500a8c0@CX615377a> Haven't used it that way. MZ-Tools does many things, very well I think. You can look on their web site which describes the functionality much better than I can. Doug -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of O'Connor, Patricia Sent: Wednesday, March 24, 2004 1:54 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: [AccessD] VBE Error Handler - MZ_TOOLS Does MZ_TOOL's error handler - handle connection errors or just regular access errors? I know I could download the tool - but would rather know if it was worth it beforehand. Besides the error handler is there other things in this tool that make it worthwhile Thanks Patti example Dim cnn As New ADODB.Connection Dim objErr As ADODB.Error If cnn.Errors.Count > 0 Then For Each objErr In cnn.Errors Select Case objErr.NativeError Case 942 NoTable = True Exit For Case Else strError = Error_Rtn(cnn.Errors) Exit For End Select Next cnn.Errors.Clear If NoTable Then Resume Next Else fExpFsMoYrTable = False Resume Exit_fExpFsMoYrTable End If End If > -----Original Message----- > From: Doug Murphy [mailto:doug at murphyscreativity.com] > Sent: Wednesday, March 24, 2004 02:14 PM > To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' > Subject: RE: [AccessD] VBE Error Handler > > > MZ Tools has a pretty nice error handler insertion feature. > The handler > is customizable. Works in all versions of Access from 2000 on. > > Doug > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of > John W. Colby > Sent: Wednesday, March 24, 2004 4:23 AM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: RE: [AccessD] VBE Error Handler > > > >grmbl. > > Yea, I understand. Unfortunately I am not a VB kind of guy. > I "wrote" > the original but it was in Access. I don't event own VB (non .NET > version anyway). > > You might beg and plead with Drew Wutka. He is very handy with VB and > loves a challenge. It would also give him a chance to get up to his > elbows in my old code and moan about it. I know Seth moaned a bit. > > > > John W. Colby > www.ColbyConsulting.com > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of S D > Sent: Wednesday, March 24, 2004 1:33 AM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: RE: [AccessD] VBE Error Handler > > > grmbl. > > A pitty. I think I'm going to try using you're error handler and some > copy/paste/replace stuff...or copy it into a textfile and write a > litte prog to do the replacing. > > Thanks anyway. > > Sander > > PS: A couple of weeks back I saw my first MS-Access 2.0 app > from 1995 or > so....oi, PS1 was not completely applicable but....although > normalization was correct and it still works like a charm :-) > > "John W. Colby" wrote: > LOL to the whole message!!! In particular the PS1: I feel for you, but > with any luck it will generate prodigious revenue as you clean it up. > > The error handler wizard is in VB and is under the care of Seth > Galitzer. This sounds like a very custom mod which you would probably > have to make. > > John W. Colby > www.ColbyConsulting.com > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of S D > Sent: Tuesday, March 23, 2004 9:34 AM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: RE: [AccessD] VBE Error Handler > > > We use a VB function to create a standard message. We use this in all > (500+) applications. > > I don't won't to break the line of work. > Problem is we enherited a HUGE Access app (250+ tables, 300+ forms, > 7(!?!) > modules) > > So we've got the following line in all our error handling: Call > GenErr("Switchdatabase.Form_Startscherm", "Form_Load") > > TIA > > Sander > > PS1: according to the programmer of this beast: > - 'normalization'? What's that, a snack? > - a function is never used more then once > - dim a, b, c as string creates 3 strings.... > - dim blnError as String > blnError = "0" > blnError = "1" > blnError = "incorrect" aaahhhhrg..... > > > "John W. Colby" wrote: > In short, it is not "programmable". > > The message the user gets is the native Access error plus the > function / > module name. What did you have in mind? > > John W. Colby > www.ColbyConsulting.com > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of S D > Sent: Tuesday, March 23, 2004 8:20 AM > To: accessd > Subject: [AccessD] VBE Error Handler > > > Hi group, > > i downloaded the VBE Error Handler dll from > www.databaseadvisors written > by John Colby. I really love this program....almost. > > It works great however I want to change the message that the > user gets. > Is that possible? > > Thnx in advance. > > Regards > > Sander > > Do you Yahoo!? > Yahoo! Finance Tax Center - File online. File on time. > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > Do you Yahoo!? > Yahoo! Finance Tax Center - File online. File on time. > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > Do you Yahoo!? > Yahoo! Finance Tax Center - File online. File on time. > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From cfoust at infostatsystems.com Wed Mar 24 17:08:04 2004 From: cfoust at infostatsystems.com (Charlotte Foust) Date: Wed, 24 Mar 2004 15:08:04 -0800 Subject: [AccessD] VBE Error Handler - MZ_TOOLS Message-ID: MZ-Tools doesn't have an error handler, it has a tool to insert error handling into your code. It has a find that I couldn't live without because it shows alls hits in a tree view. It has helpful tools like templates you can customize for not only your error handling but also a wizard for inserting procedures, module headers, procedure headers, adding and removing line numbers in code, splitting and combining lines, a Select Case wizard, and a bunch of other tools, including one to clear the immediate window and to close all code windows. It also has a nifty Review Source Code utility that will show you a list of variables and procedures that aren't used in the project - and it's lots cheaper than FMS tools. Charlotte Foust -----Original Message----- From: O'Connor, Patricia [mailto:Patricia.O'Connor at DFA.STATE.NY.US] Sent: Wednesday, March 24, 2004 1:54 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: [AccessD] VBE Error Handler - MZ_TOOLS Does MZ_TOOL's error handler - handle connection errors or just regular access errors? I know I could download the tool - but would rather know if it was worth it beforehand. Besides the error handler is there other things in this tool that make it worthwhile Thanks Patti example Dim cnn As New ADODB.Connection Dim objErr As ADODB.Error If cnn.Errors.Count > 0 Then For Each objErr In cnn.Errors Select Case objErr.NativeError Case 942 NoTable = True Exit For Case Else strError = Error_Rtn(cnn.Errors) Exit For End Select Next cnn.Errors.Clear If NoTable Then Resume Next Else fExpFsMoYrTable = False Resume Exit_fExpFsMoYrTable End If End If > -----Original Message----- > From: Doug Murphy [mailto:doug at murphyscreativity.com] > Sent: Wednesday, March 24, 2004 02:14 PM > To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' > Subject: RE: [AccessD] VBE Error Handler > > > MZ Tools has a pretty nice error handler insertion feature. > The handler > is customizable. Works in all versions of Access from 2000 on. > > Doug > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of > John W. Colby > Sent: Wednesday, March 24, 2004 4:23 AM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: RE: [AccessD] VBE Error Handler > > > >grmbl. > > Yea, I understand. Unfortunately I am not a VB kind of guy. > I "wrote" > the original but it was in Access. I don't event own VB (non .NET > version anyway). > > You might beg and plead with Drew Wutka. He is very handy with VB and > loves a challenge. It would also give him a chance to get up to his > elbows in my old code and moan about it. I know Seth moaned a bit. > > > > John W. Colby > www.ColbyConsulting.com > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of S D > Sent: Wednesday, March 24, 2004 1:33 AM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: RE: [AccessD] VBE Error Handler > > > grmbl. > > A pitty. I think I'm going to try using you're error handler and some > copy/paste/replace stuff...or copy it into a textfile and write a > litte prog to do the replacing. > > Thanks anyway. > > Sander > > PS: A couple of weeks back I saw my first MS-Access 2.0 app > from 1995 or > so....oi, PS1 was not completely applicable but....although > normalization was correct and it still works like a charm :-) > > "John W. Colby" wrote: > LOL to the whole message!!! In particular the PS1: I feel for you, but > with any luck it will generate prodigious revenue as you clean it up. > > The error handler wizard is in VB and is under the care of Seth > Galitzer. This sounds like a very custom mod which you would probably > have to make. > > John W. Colby > www.ColbyConsulting.com > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of S D > Sent: Tuesday, March 23, 2004 9:34 AM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: RE: [AccessD] VBE Error Handler > > > We use a VB function to create a standard message. We use this in all > (500+) applications. > > I don't won't to break the line of work. > Problem is we enherited a HUGE Access app (250+ tables, 300+ forms, > 7(!?!) > modules) > > So we've got the following line in all our error handling: Call > GenErr("Switchdatabase.Form_Startscherm", "Form_Load") > > TIA > > Sander > > PS1: according to the programmer of this beast: > - 'normalization'? What's that, a snack? > - a function is never used more then once > - dim a, b, c as string creates 3 strings.... > - dim blnError as String > blnError = "0" > blnError = "1" > blnError = "incorrect" aaahhhhrg..... > > > "John W. Colby" wrote: > In short, it is not "programmable". > > The message the user gets is the native Access error plus the > function / > module name. What did you have in mind? > > John W. Colby > www.ColbyConsulting.com > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of S D > Sent: Tuesday, March 23, 2004 8:20 AM > To: accessd > Subject: [AccessD] VBE Error Handler > > > Hi group, > > i downloaded the VBE Error Handler dll from > www.databaseadvisors written > by John Colby. I really love this program....almost. > > It works great however I want to change the message that the > user gets. > Is that possible? > > Thnx in advance. > > Regards > > Sander > > Do you Yahoo!? > Yahoo! Finance Tax Center - File online. File on time. > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > Do you Yahoo!? > Yahoo! Finance Tax Center - File online. File on time. > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > Do you Yahoo!? > Yahoo! Finance Tax Center - File online. File on time. > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From cfoust at infostatsystems.com Wed Mar 24 17:21:38 2004 From: cfoust at infostatsystems.com (Charlotte Foust) Date: Wed, 24 Mar 2004 15:21:38 -0800 Subject: [AccessD] determining the datatype of a bound control Message-ID: You can use the Clone method to create a copy of the ADO recordset, but it is not the same as the DAO recordsetclone at all. Charlotte Foust -----Original Message----- From: John W. Colby [mailto:jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com] Sent: Wednesday, March 24, 2004 12:24 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] determining the datatype of a bound control This is cool. Mil Gracias. Since you responded, is there any way to do the RecordsetClone thing in ADO? John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Charlotte Foust Sent: Wednesday, March 24, 2004 11:38 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] determining the datatype of a bound control John, This will do it if your form's recordsource is a table Dim strCtlSrc As String Dim strDataSrc As String Dim rst As ADODB.Recordset Dim intType As Integer strDataSrc = Me.RecordSource strCtlSrc = txtDOB.ControlSource Set rst = New ADODB.Recordset rst.Open strDataSrc , CurrentProject.Connection, , , adCmdTable intType = rst.Fields(strCtlSrc).Type Assuming the underlying field is a date, this will return a 7, which is adDate Charlotte Foust -----Original Message----- From: John W. Colby [mailto:jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com] Sent: Tuesday, March 23, 2004 12:08 PM To: AccessD Subject: [AccessD] determining the datatype of a bound control I currently determine the data type of the data that a control is displaying by the following code: Dim strCtlSrc As String Dim rst As DAO.Recordset Dim intType As Integer strCtlSrc = txtDOB.ControlSource Set rst = Me.RecordsetClone intType = rst.Fields(strCtlSrc).Type Is there a similar method of getting at this from ADO? John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From cfoust at infostatsystems.com Wed Mar 24 17:27:20 2004 From: cfoust at infostatsystems.com (Charlotte Foust) Date: Wed, 24 Mar 2004 15:27:20 -0800 Subject: [AccessD] determining the datatype of a bound control Message-ID: I qualified it because that was what the example was for. If you were using a query, you would have to do it differently, probably by using a command object. I wasn't sure whether you were looking for some multi-purpose code or just asking in general, and I wanted you to be fully aware that what I posted only applied to a table. The adCmdTable would be adCmdText or adStoredProc if you were using a select statement or a query, but if you're looking for a way to fit it into your framework, you would have to be able to determine what kind of thing the form was bound to before proceeding. Charlotte Foust -----Original Message----- From: John W. Colby [mailto:jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com] Sent: Wednesday, March 24, 2004 12:51 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] determining the datatype of a bound control I just got the "if it's a table" part. That's not so nice since many forms are bound to queries. John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Charlotte Foust Sent: Wednesday, March 24, 2004 11:38 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] determining the datatype of a bound control John, This will do it if your form's recordsource is a table Dim strCtlSrc As String Dim strDataSrc As String Dim rst As ADODB.Recordset Dim intType As Integer strDataSrc = Me.RecordSource strCtlSrc = txtDOB.ControlSource Set rst = New ADODB.Recordset rst.Open strDataSrc , CurrentProject.Connection, , , adCmdTable intType = rst.Fields(strCtlSrc).Type Assuming the underlying field is a date, this will return a 7, which is adDate Charlotte Foust -----Original Message----- From: John W. Colby [mailto:jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com] Sent: Tuesday, March 23, 2004 12:08 PM To: AccessD Subject: [AccessD] determining the datatype of a bound control I currently determine the data type of the data that a control is displaying by the following code: Dim strCtlSrc As String Dim rst As DAO.Recordset Dim intType As Integer strCtlSrc = txtDOB.ControlSource Set rst = Me.RecordsetClone intType = rst.Fields(strCtlSrc).Type Is there a similar method of getting at this from ADO? John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From accessd at shaw.ca Wed Mar 24 18:45:01 2004 From: accessd at shaw.ca (Jim Lawrence (AccessD)) Date: Wed, 24 Mar 2004 16:45:01 -0800 Subject: [AccessD] Framework Discussion - Another poll In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Hi John: I for one but it may start looking like 'me too'. Jim -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of John W. Colby Sent: Tuesday, March 23, 2004 10:10 PM To: AccessD Subject: [AccessD] Framework Discussion - Another poll I need to take another poll. Would everyone following the discussion please raise their hands. Thanks, John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com Wed Mar 24 19:01:34 2004 From: jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com (John W. Colby) Date: Wed, 24 Mar 2004 20:01:34 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Framework Discussion - Another poll In-Reply-To: <01e701c41205$f43d21c0$6501a8c0@rock> Message-ID: Yep, yep and yep. My clientele is about development time which is why I do what I do. Unfortunately I have never had a "here's a half million, take your time" client. My standard agreement with all of my clients is that if they hire me they get a license to use my framework. My framework drops my development time radically simply because I don't program the same thing over and over and over... Furthermore my agreement states that if it is application specific, it goes in the app; if it is generic, I get to decide whether to place it in the framework. I OWN the framework. The client gets the benefit (for free) of all the development that has gone before and pays for all the development that comes on their shift. I add new stuff to the framework almost every job, paid for by the client in all cases. Thus month after month, year after year the framework gets more and more advanced, new ideas, new behaviors. Each client inherits more stuff and pays for a "higher level" of development simply because that's what is left to do. As time goes on, most of the development becomes application specific, but again, if I develop something that I "coulda used on that other job" I retain the right to keep that code and place it in the framework for the future (or my other clients already using the framework). John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Arthur Fuller Sent: Wednesday, March 24, 2004 8:10 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: [AccessD] Framework Discussion - Another poll I am, but admittedly with reservations. Back in the dinosaur age I wrote a lot of stuff vaguely similar, and subsequently discarded for performance reasons. That was back when all you could count on was 640K or maybe 1MB of RAM. But perhaps the analysis still obtains. As I see it, there are two poles: 1. Write everything O-O and have the framework figure out what to do at run-time. 2. Regen the entire app so nothing has to be figured out at run-time and everything will therefore perform much more quickly. I'm not yet sold either way. Or perhaps more accurately, I am sold one way or the other depending upon the app's requirements. Given 1000 users, development time is trivial compared to execution time. Given 10 users, development time is much more significant. IMO, if performance is paramount, data-driven doesn't cut it. But there are lots of apps in which performance is not paramount, and in that case data-driven may be the right way to go. I wrote a lib a long time ago which was based on data-driven tech. Turned out the California Red Cross was one of our biggest customers. In their context, the performance-hit for data-driven was a serious problem. Heart-pacers were at stake, and various other machines. Any possible performance-hit had to die, else some patient might. 120 users to start, it later got a lot bigger; seconds mattered big time: every fraction of every second mattered big-time. Not to say every app is like that. Just to say that I have learned the hard way that when performance is paramount, data-driven loses. When it is not paramount, data-driven wins pretty much hands down. My $.02. Arthur -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Gustav Brock Sent: Wednesday, March 24, 2004 1:56 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Framework Discussion - Another poll Hi John I do. /gustav > I need to take another poll. Would everyone following the discussion > please raise their hands. -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com Wed Mar 24 20:46:12 2004 From: jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com (John W. Colby) Date: Wed, 24 Mar 2004 21:46:12 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Framework Discussion - set up question In-Reply-To: <000401c411aa$aca34430$6401a8c0@COA3> Message-ID: >I don't see exactly where to tell the fw that , for example, on 2 different combo's Not In List, I want combo1 to pop a form for data-entry, but combo2 to silently undo and reject the newdata. Should this be set in the Tag property? First of all I abandoned all Tag usage ages ago, with the sole exception of subform controls. I did so because so many people were using them using so many "syntaxes" for storing their data that it became dangerous to use them since my stuff might be lost because of what someone else did. I don't particularly like using the tag for subforms but I adopted a "syntax" where if the tag had a subform name but the Source Object property was cleared then when the tab was clicked copy the tag to the SourceObject property. This became very handy for setting / clearing JIT subform processing during troubleshooting and I just never figured out another way. I now directly program a specific control class to enable a specific behavior in the form's Open event. In my framework that is the only event I use routinely, as a matter of course. You might have noticed in the example code a line that looks like: With fdclsFrm.colClasses .item("cboIDCity").NotInListData "tlkpCity", "CI_City", "lfrmCity", True, False End With This is what programs the specific behavior that you refer to. The combo city is passed parameters - the lookup table for the list data, the field the data goes in for NotInList automatic storage, the lfrm to open for a dblClick in the combo, and two booleans that program whether to turn on NotInList and DblClick processing. If a combo is not passed these parameters using this method call, then it does nothing (does not handle) notInList or DblClick. In my framework I pop up a generic message "you are not authorized to edit this data". Although I haven't done so, it would be possible to "tell" the combo that the form should be used for NotInList and DblClick simply by testing for a value passed into the table / field parameters. If nothing passed in there, but a form is passed in AND the UseNotInList boolean is true, then assume that the form should open for NotInList processing. The bottom line is that the form scanning is difficult to program for this kind of stuff directly unless you do use the tag property and I have a personal distaste for using the tag so I don't. My good friend William started me moving away from using tags. He said "just give me a method to directly program behaviors and I'll do it explicitly". Now I do just that. John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Developer Sent: Wednesday, March 24, 2004 9:17 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: [AccessD] Framework Discussion - set up question I;ve been not able to read all the mail on the FW closely for the past week, so sorry if this is a repeat. I "get" the idea, and the form scanning, but I don't see exaclty where to tell the fw that , for example, on 2 different combo's Not In List, I want combo1 to pop a form for data-entry, but combo2 to silently undo and reject the newdata. Should this be set in the Tag property? Tia, Steve -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From jwelz at hotmail.com Thu Mar 25 00:14:58 2004 From: jwelz at hotmail.com (Jürgen Welz) Date: Wed, 24 Mar 2004 23:14:58 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] Framework Discussion - set up question Message-ID: I've posted the following before but perhaps should mention it again: I too avoid using the tag. One may instead add user defined properties to the form by appending to the properties collection of the form document. You may add a property in the name of each control and read and write these properties. The properties are persistent and apply to all created instances of forms from the documents collections. Using a property with the same name as a control or directly derived from the control name by appending a prefix or suffix makes it as easy to iterate as the controls collection and provides a simple means to connect control and property. I guess the alternative is a naming convention for the type of combo. Ciao J?rgen Welz Edmonton, Alberta jwelz at hotmail.com > >I don't see exactly where to tell the fw that , for example, on 2 >different >combo's Not In List, I want combo1 to pop a form for data-entry, but combo2 >to silently undo and reject the newdata. Should this be set in the Tag >property? >. . . >The bottom line is that the form scanning is difficult to program for this >kind of stuff directly unless you do use the tag property and I have a >personal distaste for using the tag so I don't. My good friend William >started me moving away from using tags. He said "just give me a method to >directly program behaviors and I'll do it explicitly". Now I do just that. > >John W. Colby >www.ColbyConsulting.com > >-----Original Message----- >From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com >[mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Developer >Sent: Wednesday, March 24, 2004 9:17 AM >To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' >Subject: RE: [AccessD] Framework Discussion - set up question > > >I;ve been not able to read all the mail on the FW closely for the past >week, so sorry if this is a repeat. >I "get" the idea, and the form scanning, but I don't see exaclty where >to tell the fw that , for example, on 2 different combo's Not In List, I >want combo1 to pop a form for data-entry, but combo2 to silently undo >and reject the newdata. Should this be set in the Tag property? > >Tia, >Steve _________________________________________________________________ Free yourself from those irritating pop-up ads with MSn Premium. Get 2months FREE* http://join.msn.com/?pgmarket=en-ca&page=byoa/prem&xAPID=1994&DI=1034&SU=http://hotmail.com/enca&HL=Market_MSNIS_Taglines From accessd667 at yahoo.com Thu Mar 25 00:59:03 2004 From: accessd667 at yahoo.com (S D) Date: Wed, 24 Mar 2004 22:59:03 -0800 (PST) Subject: [AccessD] VBE Error Handler SOLVED!! In-Reply-To: <2F8793082E00D4119A1700B0D0216BF8022279A9@main2.marlow.com> Message-ID: <20040325065903.68385.qmail@web61105.mail.yahoo.com> Hi Drew, Hold all project-horses! In very short: We use MZ-Tools, with some standardization. VBE Error Handler has a feature to add error handling toALL forms, reports, modules with 1 click, MZ-Tools doesn't. The standardization we use is implemented via 1 line of code. I was wondering if I could let VBEEH drop this line of code... It isn't (without doing some programming) so bad luck for me. Didn't mean for this to explode in projects throughout the world :-) Thanx anyway! Sander DWUTKA at marlow.com wrote: Okay, before I get volunteered for a new project, what exactly are we trying to accomplish. Only been eyeballing the threads lately.... Drew -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of John W. Colby Sent: Wednesday, March 24, 2004 6:23 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] VBE Error Handler >grmbl. Yea, I understand. Unfortunately I am not a VB kind of guy. I "wrote" the original but it was in Access. I don't event own VB (non .NET version anyway). You might beg and plead with Drew Wutka. He is very handy with VB and loves a challenge. It would also give him a chance to get up to his elbows in my old code and moan about it. I know Seth moaned a bit. John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of S D Sent: Wednesday, March 24, 2004 1:33 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] VBE Error Handler grmbl. A pitty. I think I'm going to try using you're error handler and some copy/paste/replace stuff...or copy it into a textfile and write a litte prog to do the replacing. Thanks anyway. Sander PS: A couple of weeks back I saw my first MS-Access 2.0 app from 1995 or so....oi, PS1 was not completely applicable but....although normalization was correct and it still works like a charm :-) "John W. Colby" wrote: LOL to the whole message!!! In particular the PS1: I feel for you, but with any luck it will generate prodigious revenue as you clean it up. The error handler wizard is in VB and is under the care of Seth Galitzer. This sounds like a very custom mod which you would probably have to make. John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of S D Sent: Tuesday, March 23, 2004 9:34 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] VBE Error Handler We use a VB function to create a standard message. We use this in all (500+) applications. I don't won't to break the line of work. Problem is we enherited a HUGE Access app (250+ tables, 300+ forms, 7(!?!) modules) So we've got the following line in all our error handling: Call GenErr("Switchdatabase.Form_Startscherm", "Form_Load") TIA Sander PS1: according to the programmer of this beast: - 'normalization'? What's that, a snack? - a function is never used more then once - dim a, b, c as string creates 3 strings.... - dim blnError as String blnError = "0" blnError = "1" blnError = "incorrect" aaahhhhrg..... "John W. Colby" wrote: In short, it is not "programmable". The message the user gets is the native Access error plus the function / module name. What did you have in mind? John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of S D Sent: Tuesday, March 23, 2004 8:20 AM To: accessd Subject: [AccessD] VBE Error Handler Hi group, i downloaded the VBE Error Handler dll from www.databaseadvisors written by John Colby. I really love this program....almost. It works great however I want to change the message that the user gets. Is that possible? Thnx in advance. Regards Sander Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Finance Tax Center - File online. File on time. -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Finance Tax Center - File online. File on time. -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Finance Tax Center - File online. File on time. -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com --------------------------------- Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Finance Tax Center - File online. File on time. From accessd at shaw.ca Thu Mar 25 01:42:29 2004 From: accessd at shaw.ca (Jim Lawrence (AccessD)) Date: Wed, 24 Mar 2004 23:42:29 -0800 Subject: [AccessD] determining the datatype of a bound control In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Hi John: There is no Me.RecordsetClone in ADO, simply because it is not 'bound' to the form. The relationship between the form and recordset has to be created. A FieldSource collection would have to be manually assembled...I think it is no more difficult (difficult is relative, but when considered it in the context with the framework...) than when the data source elements are being attached to a 'bound' form's fields and maybe an semi-automated process could be created(?). If you require the properties, types, columns, relationships etc. from tables, groups, users, procedures and even views, the ADOX object should be used. I understand it was not fully implemented in SQL 7 but in SQL 2000 or greater or in the current flavours of DAO, it is suppose to be...Have not tested it as it was never an issue or that there was not a Framework to satisfy. When having ADO questions I refer to my ADO bible; 'Professional ADO 2.5 Programming' from WROX. ADO is a big subject and there seems to be many ways to accomplish anything and a lot of it's feature can be used in unconventional methods and situations. After five years I am still just learning. HTH Jim -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of John W. Colby Sent: Tuesday, March 23, 2004 12:08 PM To: AccessD Subject: [AccessD] determining the datatype of a bound control I currently determine the data type of the data that a control is displaying by the following code: Dim strCtlSrc As String Dim rst As DAO.Recordset Dim intType As Integer strCtlSrc = txtDOB.ControlSource Set rst = Me.RecordsetClone intType = rst.Fields(strCtlSrc).Type Is there a similar method of getting at this from ADO? John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com Thu Mar 25 06:14:38 2004 From: jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com (John W. Colby) Date: Thu, 25 Mar 2004 07:14:38 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Framework Discussion - set up question In-Reply-To: Message-ID: This is a great way to store control related stuff that you wish to remain private since so few people even know that you can do this. Just don't let Jurgen get a hold of it. ;-) John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of J?rgen Welz Sent: Thursday, March 25, 2004 1:15 AM To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: RE: [AccessD] Framework Discussion - set up question I've posted the following before but perhaps should mention it again: I too avoid using the tag. One may instead add user defined properties to the form by appending to the properties collection of the form document. You may add a property in the name of each control and read and write these properties. The properties are persistent and apply to all created instances of forms from the documents collections. Using a property with the same name as a control or directly derived from the control name by appending a prefix or suffix makes it as easy to iterate as the controls collection and provides a simple means to connect control and property. I guess the alternative is a naming convention for the type of combo. Ciao J?rgen Welz Edmonton, Alberta jwelz at hotmail.com > >I don't see exactly where to tell the fw that , for example, on 2 >different >combo's Not In List, I want combo1 to pop a form for data-entry, but combo2 >to silently undo and reject the newdata. Should this be set in the Tag >property? >. . . >The bottom line is that the form scanning is difficult to program for this >kind of stuff directly unless you do use the tag property and I have a >personal distaste for using the tag so I don't. My good friend William >started me moving away from using tags. He said "just give me a method to >directly program behaviors and I'll do it explicitly". Now I do just that. > >John W. Colby >www.ColbyConsulting.com > >-----Original Message----- >From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com >[mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Developer >Sent: Wednesday, March 24, 2004 9:17 AM >To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' >Subject: RE: [AccessD] Framework Discussion - set up question > > >I;ve been not able to read all the mail on the FW closely for the past >week, so sorry if this is a repeat. >I "get" the idea, and the form scanning, but I don't see exaclty where >to tell the fw that , for example, on 2 different combo's Not In List, I >want combo1 to pop a form for data-entry, but combo2 to silently undo >and reject the newdata. Should this be set in the Tag property? > >Tia, >Steve _________________________________________________________________ Free yourself from those irritating pop-up ads with MSn Premium. Get 2months FREE* http://join.msn.com/?pgmarket=en-ca&page=byoa/prem&xAPID=1994&DI=1034&SU=htt p://hotmail.com/enca&HL=Market_MSNIS_Taglines -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From pedro at plex.nl Thu Mar 25 13:44:21 2004 From: pedro at plex.nl (pedro at plex.nl) Date: Thu, 25 Mar 2004 13:44:21 (MET) Subject: [AccessD] total of sum Message-ID: <200403251244.i2PCiLRM020693@mailhostC.plex.net> Hello group, i need to make an presentation of some figures for later this afternoon. I had a query that made a sum of numbers as a total, but i can't find it right now. Can You give me a hand? i have diag number biopt 5 biopt 7 biopt 2 ascites 4 ascites 6 i need diag Total biopt 14 ascites 10 Thanks Pedro Janssen From rsmethurst at UK.EY.COM Thu Mar 25 06:48:13 2004 From: rsmethurst at UK.EY.COM (rsmethurst at UK.EY.COM) Date: Thu, 25 Mar 2004 12:48:13 +0000 Subject: [AccessD] total of sum Message-ID: Hi Pedro, In your query, you want to Group By on the first field and then Sum the second field. Ryan pedro at plex.nl Sent by: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com 25/03/2004 13:44 Please respond to Access Developers discussion and problem solving To: accessD at databaseadvisors.com cc: Subject: [AccessD] total of sum Hello group, i need to make an presentation of some figures for later this afternoon. I had a query that made a sum of numbers as a total, but i can't find it right now. Can You give me a hand? i have diag number biopt 5 biopt 7 biopt 2 ascites 4 ascites 6 i need diag Total biopt 14 ascites 10 Thanks Pedro Janssen -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com This e-mail and any attachment are confidential and contain proprietary information, some or all of which may be legally privileged. It is intended solely for the use of the individual or entity to which it is addressed. If you are not the intended recipient, please notify the author immediately by telephone or by replying to this e-mail, and then delete all copies of the e-mail on your system. If you are not the intended recipient, you must not use, disclose, distribute, copy, print or rely on this e-mail. 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From roz.clarke at donnslaw.co.uk Thu Mar 25 06:51:06 2004 From: roz.clarke at donnslaw.co.uk (Roz Clarke) Date: Thu, 25 Mar 2004 12:51:06 -0000 Subject: [AccessD] total of sum Message-ID: <61F915314798D311A2F800A0C9C83188047C6C57@dibble.observatory.donnslaw.co.uk> Hi Pedro All you need to do is make the query into a Totals query, group by diag and sum the number. HTH Roz -----Original Message----- From: pedro at plex.nl [mailto:pedro at plex.nl] Sent: 25 March 2004 13:44 To: accessD at databaseadvisors.com Subject: [AccessD] total of sum Hello group, i need to make an presentation of some figures for later this afternoon. I had a query that made a sum of numbers as a total, but i can't find it right now. Can You give me a hand? i have diag number biopt 5 biopt 7 biopt 2 ascites 4 ascites 6 i need diag Total biopt 14 ascites 10 Thanks Pedro Janssen -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From paul.hartland at fsmail.net Thu Mar 25 06:52:04 2004 From: paul.hartland at fsmail.net (paul.hartland at fsmail.net) Date: Thu, 25 Mar 2004 13:52:04 +0100 (CET) Subject: [AccessD] total of sum Message-ID: <26195871.1080219124567.JavaMail.www@wwinf3006> Pedro, Try this: SELECT Diag, Sum(Number) AS Total FROM [YourTable] GROUP BY Diag Paul Hartland Message date : Mar 25 2004, 12:45 PM >From : pedro at plex.nl To : accessD at databaseadvisors.com Copy to : Subject : [AccessD] total of sum Hello group, i need to make an presentation of some figures for later this afternoon. I had a query that made a sum of numbers as a total, but i can't find it right now. Can You give me a hand? i have diag number biopt 5 biopt 7 biopt 2 ascites 4 ascites 6 i need diag Total biopt 14 ascites 10 Thanks Pedro Janssen -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com Freeserve AnyTime - HALF PRICE for the first 3 months - Save ?7.50 a month www.freeserve.com/anytime From pedro at plex.nl Thu Mar 25 15:18:22 2004 From: pedro at plex.nl (pedro at plex.nl) Date: Thu, 25 Mar 2004 15:18:22 (MET) Subject: [AccessD] total of sum Message-ID: <200403251418.i2PEIMRM024746@mailhostC.plex.net> Hello, sometimes when have asked a question and see the responce, you can find yourself a compleet idiot. Why the hell did i ask this?? Sometimes your so busy with other work, that you don't take the time to think. I would do this with select distinct, i don't know why. I didn't thought on group by, and why am i not looking in the design view? But thanks to all who responded. Pedro Janssen Cytologist From: rsmethurst at UK.EY.COM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Date: Thu, 25 Mar 2004 12:48:13 +0000 Subject: Re: [AccessD] total of sum Hi Pedro, In your query, you want to Group By on the first field and then Sum the second field. Ryan From Developer at UltraDNT.com Thu Mar 25 08:45:08 2004 From: Developer at UltraDNT.com (Developer) Date: Thu, 25 Mar 2004 09:45:08 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Framework Discussion - set up question In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <002201c41277$cb044780$6401a8c0@COA3> Cool, thanks to both of you ... I always thought that using the Tag felt a bit "hack-y" Steve -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of John W. Colby Sent: Thursday, March 25, 2004 7:15 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] Framework Discussion - set up question This is a great way to store control related stuff that you wish to remain private since so few people even know that you can do this. Just don't let Jurgen get a hold of it. ;-) John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of J?rgen Welz Sent: Thursday, March 25, 2004 1:15 AM To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: RE: [AccessD] Framework Discussion - set up question I've posted the following before but perhaps should mention it again: I too avoid using the tag. One may instead add user defined properties to the form by appending to the properties collection of the form document. You may add a property in the name of each control and read and write these properties. The properties are persistent and apply to all created instances of forms from the documents collections. Using a property with the same name as a control or directly derived from the control name by appending a prefix or suffix makes it as easy to iterate as the controls collection and provides a simple means to connect control and property. I guess the alternative is a naming convention for the type of combo. Ciao J?rgen Welz Edmonton, Alberta jwelz at hotmail.com > >I don't see exactly where to tell the fw that , for example, on 2 >different >combo's Not In List, I want combo1 to pop a form for data-entry, but >combo2 to silently undo and reject the newdata. Should this be set in >the Tag property? . . . >The bottom line is that the form scanning is difficult to program for >this kind of stuff directly unless you do use the tag property and I >have a personal distaste for using the tag so I don't. My good friend >William started me moving away from using tags. He said "just give me >a method to directly program behaviors and I'll do it explicitly". Now >I do just that. > >John W. Colby >www.ColbyConsulting.com > >-----Original Message----- >From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com >[mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Developer >Sent: Wednesday, March 24, 2004 9:17 AM >To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' >Subject: RE: [AccessD] Framework Discussion - set up question > > >I;ve been not able to read all the mail on the FW closely for the past >week, so sorry if this is a repeat. I "get" the idea, and the form >scanning, but I don't see exaclty where to tell the fw that , for >example, on 2 different combo's Not In List, I want combo1 to pop a >form for data-entry, but combo2 to silently undo and reject the >newdata. Should this be set in the Tag property? > >Tia, >Steve _________________________________________________________________ Free yourself from those irritating pop-up ads with MSn Premium. Get 2months FREE* http://join.msn.com/?pgmarket=en-ca&page=byoa/prem&xAPID=1994&DI=1034&SU =htt p://hotmail.com/enca&HL=Market_MSNIS_Taglines -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From Patricia.O'Connor at DFA.STATE.NY.US Thu Mar 25 08:53:07 2004 From: Patricia.O'Connor at DFA.STATE.NY.US (O'Connor, Patricia ) Date: Thu, 25 Mar 2004 09:53:07 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] VBE Error Handler - MZ_TOOLS Message-ID: Thanks Charlotte Sounds pretty neat Patti > -----Original Message----- > From: Charlotte Foust [mailto:cfoust at infostatsystems.com] > Sent: Wednesday, March 24, 2004 06:08 PM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: RE: [AccessD] VBE Error Handler - MZ_TOOLS > > > MZ-Tools doesn't have an error handler, it has a tool to insert error > handling into your code. It has a find that I couldn't live without > because it shows alls hits in a tree view. It has helpful tools like > templates you can customize for not only your error handling > but also a > wizard for inserting procedures, module headers, procedure headers, > adding and removing line numbers in code, splitting and > combining lines, > a Select Case wizard, and a bunch of other tools, including > one to clear > the immediate window and to close all code windows. It also > has a nifty > Review Source Code utility that will show you a list of variables and > procedures that aren't used in the project - and it's lots > cheaper than > FMS tools. > > Charlotte Foust > > -----Original Message----- > From: O'Connor, Patricia [mailto:Patricia.O'Connor at DFA.STATE.NY.US] > Sent: Wednesday, March 24, 2004 1:54 PM > To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' > Subject: RE: [AccessD] VBE Error Handler - MZ_TOOLS > > > Does MZ_TOOL's error handler - handle connection errors or > just regular > access errors? I know I could download the tool - but would > rather know > if it was worth it beforehand. Besides the error handler is > there other > things in this tool that make it worthwhile > > Thanks > Patti > > example > > Dim cnn As New ADODB.Connection > Dim objErr As ADODB.Error > If cnn.Errors.Count > 0 Then > For Each objErr In cnn.Errors > Select Case objErr.NativeError > Case 942 > NoTable = True > Exit For > Case Else > strError = Error_Rtn(cnn.Errors) > Exit For > End Select > Next > > cnn.Errors.Clear > If NoTable Then > Resume Next > Else > fExpFsMoYrTable = False > Resume Exit_fExpFsMoYrTable > End If > End If > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: Doug Murphy [mailto:doug at murphyscreativity.com] > > Sent: Wednesday, March 24, 2004 02:14 PM > > To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' > > Subject: RE: [AccessD] VBE Error Handler > > > > > > MZ Tools has a pretty nice error handler insertion feature. > > The handler > > is customizable. Works in all versions of Access from 2000 on. > > > > Doug > > > > > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of > > John W. Colby > > Sent: Wednesday, March 24, 2004 4:23 AM > > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > > Subject: RE: [AccessD] VBE Error Handler > > > > > > >grmbl. > > > > Yea, I understand. Unfortunately I am not a VB kind of guy. > > I "wrote" > > the original but it was in Access. I don't event own VB (non .NET > > version anyway). > > > > You might beg and plead with Drew Wutka. He is very handy > with VB and > > > loves a challenge. It would also give him a chance to get > up to his > > elbows in my old code and moan about it. I know Seth moaned a bit. > > > > > > > > John W. Colby > > www.ColbyConsulting.com > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of S D > > Sent: Wednesday, March 24, 2004 1:33 AM > > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > > Subject: RE: [AccessD] VBE Error Handler > > > > > > grmbl. > > > > A pitty. I think I'm going to try using you're error > handler and some > > copy/paste/replace stuff...or copy it into a textfile and write a > > litte prog to do the replacing. > > > > Thanks anyway. > > > > Sander > > > > PS: A couple of weeks back I saw my first MS-Access 2.0 app > > from 1995 or > > so....oi, PS1 was not completely applicable but....although > > normalization was correct and it still works like a charm :-) > > > > "John W. Colby" wrote: > > LOL to the whole message!!! In particular the PS1: I feel > for you, but > > > with any luck it will generate prodigious revenue as you > clean it up. > > > > The error handler wizard is in VB and is under the care of Seth > > Galitzer. This sounds like a very custom mod which you > would probably > > have to make. > > > > John W. Colby > > www.ColbyConsulting.com > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of S D > > Sent: Tuesday, March 23, 2004 9:34 AM > > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > > Subject: RE: [AccessD] VBE Error Handler > > > > > > We use a VB function to create a standard message. We use > this in all > > (500+) applications. > > > > I don't won't to break the line of work. > > Problem is we enherited a HUGE Access app (250+ tables, 300+ forms, > > 7(!?!) > > modules) > > > > So we've got the following line in all our error handling: Call > > GenErr("Switchdatabase.Form_Startscherm", "Form_Load") > > > > TIA > > > > Sander > > > > PS1: according to the programmer of this beast: > > - 'normalization'? What's that, a snack? > > - a function is never used more then once > > - dim a, b, c as string creates 3 strings.... > > - dim blnError as String > > blnError = "0" > > blnError = "1" > > blnError = "incorrect" aaahhhhrg..... > > > > > > "John W. Colby" wrote: > > In short, it is not "programmable". > > > > The message the user gets is the native Access error plus the > > function / > > module name. What did you have in mind? > > > > John W. Colby > > www.ColbyConsulting.com > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of S D > > Sent: Tuesday, March 23, 2004 8:20 AM > > To: accessd > > Subject: [AccessD] VBE Error Handler > > > > > > Hi group, > > > > i downloaded the VBE Error Handler dll from > > www.databaseadvisors written > > by John Colby. I really love this program....almost. > > > > It works great however I want to change the message that the > > user gets. > > Is that possible? > > > > Thnx in advance. > > > > Regards > > > > Sander > > > > Do you Yahoo!? > > Yahoo! Finance Tax Center - File online. File on time. > > -- > > _______________________________________________ > > AccessD mailing list > > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > > > > > -- > > _______________________________________________ > > AccessD mailing list > > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > Do you Yahoo!? > > Yahoo! Finance Tax Center - File online. File on time. > > -- > > _______________________________________________ > > AccessD mailing list > > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > > > > > -- > > _______________________________________________ > > AccessD mailing list > > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > Do you Yahoo!? > > Yahoo! Finance Tax Center - File online. File on time. > > -- > > _______________________________________________ > > AccessD mailing list > > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > > > > > -- > > _______________________________________________ > > AccessD mailing list > > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > > > > > -- > > _______________________________________________ > > AccessD mailing list > > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > From JRojas at tnco-inc.com Thu Mar 25 09:14:10 2004 From: JRojas at tnco-inc.com (Joe Rojas) Date: Thu, 25 Mar 2004 10:14:10 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Audit Trails Message-ID: <806536912C472E4A9D6515DF2E57261E239765@mercury.tnco-inc.com> We are creating an application that needs to be 21CRF Part11 compliant, which requires audit trails. Has anyone ever implemented an Audit Trail system into his or her Access Database? If so, could you provide some guidance? Links, resources, or examples? Thanks in advance! JR This electronic transmission is strictly confidential to TNCO, Inc. and intended solely for the addressee. It may contain information which is covered by legal, professional, or other privileges. If you are not the intended addressee, or someone authorized by the intended addressee to receive transmissions on behalf of the addressee, you must not retain, disclose in any form, copy, or take any action in reliance on this transmission. If you have received this transmission in error, please notify the sender as soon as possible and destroy this message. While TNCO, Inc. uses virus protection, the recipient should check this email and any attachments for the presence of viruses. TNCO, Inc. accepts no liability for any damage caused by any virus transmitted by this email. From jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com Thu Mar 25 09:25:17 2004 From: jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com (John W. Colby) Date: Thu, 25 Mar 2004 10:25:17 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Audit Trails In-Reply-To: <806536912C472E4A9D6515DF2E57261E239765@mercury.tnco-inc.com> Message-ID: Joe, Can you give guidance as to what is expected of the audit trail? John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Joe Rojas Sent: Thursday, March 25, 2004 10:14 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: [AccessD] Audit Trails We are creating an application that needs to be 21CRF Part11 compliant, which requires audit trails. Has anyone ever implemented an Audit Trail system into his or her Access Database? If so, could you provide some guidance? Links, resources, or examples? Thanks in advance! JR This electronic transmission is strictly confidential to TNCO, Inc. and intended solely for the addressee. It may contain information which is covered by legal, professional, or other privileges. If you are not the intended addressee, or someone authorized by the intended addressee to receive transmissions on behalf of the addressee, you must not retain, disclose in any form, copy, or take any action in reliance on this transmission. If you have received this transmission in error, please notify the sender as soon as possible and destroy this message. While TNCO, Inc. uses virus protection, the recipient should check this email and any attachments for the presence of viruses. TNCO, Inc. accepts no liability for any damage caused by any virus transmitted by this email. -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From gustav at cactus.dk Thu Mar 25 09:32:15 2004 From: gustav at cactus.dk (Gustav Brock) Date: Thu, 25 Mar 2004 16:32:15 +0100 Subject: [AccessD] Audit Trails In-Reply-To: <806536912C472E4A9D6515DF2E57261E239765@mercury.tnco-inc.com> References: <806536912C472E4A9D6515DF2E57261E239765@mercury.tnco-inc.com> Message-ID: <2330323873.20040325163215@cactus.dk> Hi Joe > We are creating an application that needs to be 21CRF Part11 > compliant .. What is that please? /gustav From jwelz at hotmail.com Thu Mar 25 09:49:35 2004 From: jwelz at hotmail.com (Jürgen Welz) Date: Thu, 25 Mar 2004 08:49:35 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] Framework Discussion - set up question Message-ID: I don't believe there is anything inherently incorrect about using the tag property or even storing multiple attributes separated by a delimiter. The difficulty arises when you want to integrate this functionality with existing code developed by someone else. Confilicting usages of the Tag result in the need to resolve code integration issues that arise. There is an excerpt from an O'Reilly Press book by Getz, Litwin and Baron at: http://www.oreilly.com/catalog/accesscook2/chapter/ch07.pdf starting at page 338 (p 47 of the pdf file) that provides a generic routine to set and get built in and user defined properties and create properties that don't exist. Although the code says it doesn't apply to Forms, it looks to me like it should since the code I use is virtually identical. I find the explanations particularly useful for things that learning developers frequently encounter such as the detailed examination of the 'Description' property of various DAO objects. Ciao J?rgen Welz Edmonton, Alberta jwelz at hotmail.com >From: "Developer" >Reply-To: Access Developers discussion and problem >solving >To: "'Access Developers discussion and problem >solving'" >Subject: RE: [AccessD] Framework Discussion - set up question >Date: Thu, 25 Mar 2004 09:45:08 -0500 >MIME-Version: 1.0 >Received: from mc12-f10.hotmail.com ([65.54.167.146]) by >mc12-s6.hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC(5.0.2195.6824); Thu, 25 Mar 2004 >06:44:47 -0800 >Received: from databaseadvisors.com ([209.135.140.44]) by >mc12-f10.hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC(5.0.2195.6824); Thu, 25 Mar >2004 06:44:47 -0800 >Received: from databaseadvisors.com (databaseadvisors.com >[209.135.140.44])by databaseadvisors.com (8.11.6/8.11.6) with ESMTP id >i2PEgpM13141;Thu, 25 Mar 2004 08:42:51 -0600 >Received: from >mail5.atl.registeredsite.com(nobody at mail5.atl.registeredsite.com >[64.224.219.79])by databaseadvisors.com (8.11.6/8.11.6) with ESMTP id >i2PEg6M12589for ; Thu, 25 Mar 2004 08:42:06 >-0600 >Received: from ultradnt.com ([66.223.127.28])by >mail5.atl.registeredsite.com (8.12.8/8.12.8) with ESMTP idi2PFgAZI025498for >; Thu, 25 Mar 2004 10:42:10 -0500 >Received: from COA3 (24-90-29-110.nyc.rr.com [24.90.29.110])by ultradnt.com >(8.11.6/8.11.0) with ESMTP id i2PEg7W37713for >;Thu, 25 Mar 2004 09:42:08 -0500 >(EST)(envelope-from Developer at UltraDNT.com) >X-Message-Info: NDMZeIBu+so8QwkCcmxHyFr1IWDH39BFYAoeFtQz14Y= >Message-ID: <002201c41277$cb044780$6401a8c0 at COA3> >X-MSMail-Priority: Normal >X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook, Build 10.0.4024 >In-Reply-To: >X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2600.0000 >X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by databaseadvisors.com >idi2PEg6M12589 >X-BeenThere: accessd at databaseadvisors.com >X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.4 >Precedence: list >List-Id: Access Developers discussion and problem >solving >List-Help: >List-Post: >List-Subscribe: >, >List-Archive: >List-Unsubscribe: >, >Errors-To: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com >Return-Path: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com >X-OriginalArrivalTime: 25 Mar 2004 14:44:47.0724 (UTC) >FILETIME=[B864D2C0:01C41277] > >Cool, thanks to both of you ... I always thought that using the Tag felt >a bit "hack-y" > >Steve > > >-----Original Message----- >From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com >[mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of John W. Colby >Sent: Thursday, March 25, 2004 7:15 AM >To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving >Subject: RE: [AccessD] Framework Discussion - set up question > > >This is a great way to store control related stuff that you wish to >remain private since so few people even know that you can do this. Just >don't let Jurgen get a hold of it. ;-) > >John W. Colby >www.ColbyConsulting.com > >-----Original Message----- >From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com >[mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of J?rgen Welz >Sent: Thursday, March 25, 2004 1:15 AM >To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com >Subject: RE: [AccessD] Framework Discussion - set up question > > >I've posted the following before but perhaps should mention it again: I >too avoid using the tag. One may instead add user defined properties to >the form by appending to the properties collection of the form document. >You may add a property in the name of each control and read and write >these properties. The properties are persistent and apply to all >created instances of forms from the documents collections. Using a >property with the same name as a control or directly derived from the >control name by appending a prefix or suffix makes it as easy to iterate >as the controls collection and provides a simple means to connect >control and property. > >I guess the alternative is a naming convention for the type of combo. > >Ciao >J?rgen Welz >Edmonton, Alberta >jwelz at hotmail.com > > > > > > > >I don't see exactly where to tell the fw that , for example, on 2 > >different > >combo's Not In List, I want combo1 to pop a form for data-entry, but > >combo2 to silently undo and reject the newdata. Should this be set in > >the Tag property? . >. >. > >The bottom line is that the form scanning is difficult to program for > >this kind of stuff directly unless you do use the tag property and I > >have a personal distaste for using the tag so I don't. My good friend > >William started me moving away from using tags. He said "just give me > >a method to directly program behaviors and I'll do it explicitly". Now > > >I do just that. > > > >John W. Colby > >www.ColbyConsulting.com > > > >-----Original Message----- > >From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > >[mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Developer > >Sent: Wednesday, March 24, 2004 9:17 AM > >To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' > >Subject: RE: [AccessD] Framework Discussion - set up question > > > > > >I;ve been not able to read all the mail on the FW closely for the past > >week, so sorry if this is a repeat. I "get" the idea, and the form > >scanning, but I don't see exaclty where to tell the fw that , for > >example, on 2 different combo's Not In List, I want combo1 to pop a > >form for data-entry, but combo2 to silently undo and reject the > >newdata. Should this be set in the Tag property? > > > >Tia, > >Steve > >_________________________________________________________________ >Free yourself from those irritating pop-up ads with MSn Premium. Get >2months >FREE* >http://join.msn.com/?pgmarket=en-ca&page=byoa/prem&xAPID=1994&DI=1034&SU >=htt >p://hotmail.com/enca&HL=Market_MSNIS_Taglines > >-- >_______________________________________________ >AccessD mailing list >AccessD at databaseadvisors.com >http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd >Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > >-- >_______________________________________________ >AccessD mailing list >AccessD at databaseadvisors.com >http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd >Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > >-- >_______________________________________________ >AccessD mailing list >AccessD at databaseadvisors.com >http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd >Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com _________________________________________________________________ MSN Premium helps eliminate e-mail viruses. Get 2 months FREE* http://join.msn.com/?pgmarket=en-ca&page=byoa/prem&xAPID=1994&DI=1034&SU=http://hotmail.com/enca&HL=Market_MSNIS_Taglines From JRojas at tnco-inc.com Thu Mar 25 09:56:31 2004 From: JRojas at tnco-inc.com (Joe Rojas) Date: Thu, 25 Mar 2004 10:56:31 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Audit Trails Message-ID: <806536912C472E4A9D6515DF2E57261E239766@mercury.tnco-inc.com> Replying to both John and Gustav. We are creating a system to handle all our returns/repairs that come into the building. We manufacture medical instruments and it was determined that this type of system needs to be 21CRF Part 11 compliant. In reality we already have this system created and implemented, but at the time we did not know that it needed to be 21CRF Part 11 compliant so now we are looking at how to make it so. As a side note, we are looking to convert it from a full Access application to a SQL Server 7 backend with A2k FE. As for what we expect the audit trail to do, we need it to keep track who made of additions, deletions, and changes to the data in the system and when. With regards to changes, we need to know what was changed. I suppose login failures who be useful to track also. JR -----Original Message----- From: Gustav Brock [mailto:gustav at cactus.dk] Sent: Thursday, March 25, 2004 10:32 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Audit Trails Hi Joe > We are creating an application that needs to be 21CRF Part11 > compliant .. What is that please? /gustav -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com This electronic transmission is strictly confidential to TNCO, Inc. and intended solely for the addressee. It may contain information which is covered by legal, professional, or other privileges. If you are not the intended addressee, or someone authorized by the intended addressee to receive transmissions on behalf of the addressee, you must not retain, disclose in any form, copy, or take any action in reliance on this transmission. If you have received this transmission in error, please notify the sender as soon as possible and destroy this message. While TNCO, Inc. uses virus protection, the recipient should check this email and any attachments for the presence of viruses. TNCO, Inc. accepts no liability for any damage caused by any virus transmitted by this email. From dwaters at usinternet.com Thu Mar 25 10:07:04 2004 From: dwaters at usinternet.com (Dan Waters) Date: Thu, 25 Mar 2004 10:07:04 -0600 Subject: [AccessD] Audit Trails In-Reply-To: <12260461.1080227949530.JavaMail.root@sniper3.marix.com> Message-ID: <001001c41283$371930b0$de1811d8@DanWaters> Joe, I have studied these requirements, and they are significant. Your first step is to contact the Regulatory Manager to review the Part 11 requirements for electronic records and electronic signatures. It may be that you won't be able to use Access simply because Access is not as secure as other systems, i.e., SQL Server. In addition, the rules are not set in stone. Each company must demonstrate to the FDA how their interpretation of the Part 11 requirements fits the medical risk associated with your products or services. For example, a company that makes dental floss has a lower risk than one that makes pacemakers. Before you do anything else, talk with the Regulatory Manager first! If you'd like more information after that, let me know. Dan Waters ProMation Systems, Inc. -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Joe Rojas Sent: Thursday, March 25, 2004 9:14 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: [AccessD] Audit Trails We are creating an application that needs to be 21CRF Part11 compliant, which requires audit trails. Has anyone ever implemented an Audit Trail system into his or her Access Database? If so, could you provide some guidance? Links, resources, or examples? Thanks in advance! JR This electronic transmission is strictly confidential to TNCO, Inc. and intended solely for the addressee. It may contain information which is covered by legal, professional, or other privileges. If you are not the intended addressee, or someone authorized by the intended addressee to receive transmissions on behalf of the addressee, you must not retain, disclose in any form, copy, or take any action in reliance on this transmission. If you have received this transmission in error, please notify the sender as soon as possible and destroy this message. While TNCO, Inc. uses virus protection, the recipient should check this email and any attachments for the presence of viruses. TNCO, Inc. accepts no liability for any damage caused by any virus transmitted by this email. -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From Jdemarco at hudsonhealthplan.org Thu Mar 25 10:09:26 2004 From: Jdemarco at hudsonhealthplan.org (Jim DeMarco) Date: Thu, 25 Mar 2004 11:09:26 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Framework Discussion - Another poll Message-ID: <22F1CCD5171D17419CB37FEEE09D5F99030FE60D@TTNEXCHSRV1.hshhp.com> Archiving them to read later. Jim DeMarco *********************************************************************************** "This electronic message is intended to be for the use only of the named recipient, and may contain information from Hudson Health Plan (HHP) that is confidential or privileged. If you are not the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any disclosure, copying, distribution or use of the contents of this message is strictly prohibited. If you have received this message in error or are not the named recipient, please notify us immediately, either by contacting the sender at the electronic mail address noted above or calling HHP at (914) 631-1611. If you are not the intended recipient, please do not forward this email to anyone, and delete and destroy all copies of this message. Thank You". *********************************************************************************** From cfoust at infostatsystems.com Thu Mar 25 10:25:31 2004 From: cfoust at infostatsystems.com (Charlotte Foust) Date: Thu, 25 Mar 2004 08:25:31 -0800 Subject: [AccessD] Framework Discussion - set up question Message-ID: In that case, why not just use a custom property and leave the tag alone? Charlotte Foust -----Original Message----- From: J?rgen Welz [mailto:jwelz at hotmail.com] Sent: Thursday, March 25, 2004 7:50 AM To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: RE: [AccessD] Framework Discussion - set up question I don't believe there is anything inherently incorrect about using the tag property or even storing multiple attributes separated by a delimiter. The difficulty arises when you want to integrate this functionality with existing code developed by someone else. Confilicting usages of the Tag result in the need to resolve code integration issues that arise. There is an excerpt from an O'Reilly Press book by Getz, Litwin and Baron at: http://www.oreilly.com/catalog/accesscook2/chapter/ch07.pdf starting at page 338 (p 47 of the pdf file) that provides a generic routine to set and get built in and user defined properties and create properties that don't exist. Although the code says it doesn't apply to Forms, it looks to me like it should since the code I use is virtually identical. I find the explanations particularly useful for things that learning developers frequently encounter such as the detailed examination of the 'Description' property of various DAO objects. Ciao J?rgen Welz Edmonton, Alberta jwelz at hotmail.com >From: "Developer" >Reply-To: Access Developers discussion and problem >solving >To: "'Access Developers discussion and problem >solving'" >Subject: RE: [AccessD] Framework Discussion - set up question >Date: Thu, 25 Mar 2004 09:45:08 -0500 >MIME-Version: 1.0 >Received: from mc12-f10.hotmail.com ([65.54.167.146]) by >mc12-s6.hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC(5.0.2195.6824); Thu, 25 Mar 2004 >06:44:47 -0800 >Received: from databaseadvisors.com ([209.135.140.44]) by >mc12-f10.hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC(5.0.2195.6824); Thu, 25 Mar >2004 06:44:47 -0800 >Received: from databaseadvisors.com (databaseadvisors.com >[209.135.140.44])by databaseadvisors.com (8.11.6/8.11.6) with ESMTP id >i2PEgpM13141;Thu, 25 Mar 2004 08:42:51 -0600 >Received: from >mail5.atl.registeredsite.com(nobody at mail5.atl.registeredsite.com >[64.224.219.79])by databaseadvisors.com (8.11.6/8.11.6) with ESMTP id >i2PEg6M12589for ; Thu, 25 Mar 2004 08:42:06 >-0600 >Received: from ultradnt.com ([66.223.127.28])by >mail5.atl.registeredsite.com (8.12.8/8.12.8) with ESMTP idi2PFgAZI025498for >; Thu, 25 Mar 2004 10:42:10 -0500 >Received: from COA3 (24-90-29-110.nyc.rr.com [24.90.29.110])by ultradnt.com >(8.11.6/8.11.0) with ESMTP id i2PEg7W37713for >;Thu, 25 Mar 2004 09:42:08 -0500 >(EST)(envelope-from Developer at UltraDNT.com) >X-Message-Info: NDMZeIBu+so8QwkCcmxHyFr1IWDH39BFYAoeFtQz14Y= >Message-ID: <002201c41277$cb044780$6401a8c0 at COA3> >X-MSMail-Priority: Normal >X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook, Build 10.0.4024 >In-Reply-To: >X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2600.0000 >X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by databaseadvisors.com >idi2PEg6M12589 >X-BeenThere: accessd at databaseadvisors.com >X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.4 >Precedence: list >List-Id: Access Developers discussion and problem >solving >List-Help: >List-Post: >List-Subscribe: >, >List-Archive: >List-Unsubscribe: >, >Errors-To: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com >Return-Path: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com >X-OriginalArrivalTime: 25 Mar 2004 14:44:47.0724 (UTC) >FILETIME=[B864D2C0:01C41277] > >Cool, thanks to both of you ... I always thought that using the Tag >felt a bit "hack-y" > >Steve > > >-----Original Message----- >From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com >[mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of John W. >Colby >Sent: Thursday, March 25, 2004 7:15 AM >To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving >Subject: RE: [AccessD] Framework Discussion - set up question > > >This is a great way to store control related stuff that you wish to >remain private since so few people even know that you can do this. >Just don't let Jurgen get a hold of it. ;-) > >John W. Colby >www.ColbyConsulting.com > >-----Original Message----- >From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com >[mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of J?rgen Welz >Sent: Thursday, March 25, 2004 1:15 AM >To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com >Subject: RE: [AccessD] Framework Discussion - set up question > > >I've posted the following before but perhaps should mention it again: >I too avoid using the tag. One may instead add user defined properties >to the form by appending to the properties collection of the form >document. You may add a property in the name of each control and read >and write these properties. The properties are persistent and apply to >all created instances of forms from the documents collections. Using a >property with the same name as a control or directly derived from the >control name by appending a prefix or suffix makes it as easy to >iterate as the controls collection and provides a simple means to >connect control and property. > >I guess the alternative is a naming convention for the type of combo. > >Ciao >J?rgen Welz >Edmonton, Alberta >jwelz at hotmail.com > > > > > > > >I don't see exactly where to tell the fw that , for example, on 2 > >different > >combo's Not In List, I want combo1 to pop a form for data-entry, but > >combo2 to silently undo and reject the newdata. Should this be set > >in the Tag property? . >. >. > >The bottom line is that the form scanning is difficult to program for > >this kind of stuff directly unless you do use the tag property and I > >have a personal distaste for using the tag so I don't. My good > >friend William started me moving away from using tags. He said "just > >give me a method to directly program behaviors and I'll do it > >explicitly". Now > > >I do just that. > > > >John W. Colby > >www.ColbyConsulting.com > > > >-----Original Message----- > >From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > >[mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Developer > >Sent: Wednesday, March 24, 2004 9:17 AM > >To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' > >Subject: RE: [AccessD] Framework Discussion - set up question > > > > > >I;ve been not able to read all the mail on the FW closely for the > >past week, so sorry if this is a repeat. I "get" the idea, and the > >form scanning, but I don't see exaclty where to tell the fw that , > >for example, on 2 different combo's Not In List, I want combo1 to pop > >a form for data-entry, but combo2 to silently undo and reject the > >newdata. Should this be set in the Tag property? > > > >Tia, > >Steve > >_________________________________________________________________ >Free yourself from those irritating pop-up ads with MSn Premium. Get >2months >FREE* >http://join.msn.com/?pgmarket=en-ca&page=byoa/prem&xAPID=1994&DI=1034&S >U >=htt >p://hotmail.com/enca&HL=Market_MSNIS_Taglines > >-- >_______________________________________________ >AccessD mailing list >AccessD at databaseadvisors.com >http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd >Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > >-- >_______________________________________________ >AccessD mailing list >AccessD at databaseadvisors.com >http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd >Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > >-- >_______________________________________________ >AccessD mailing list >AccessD at databaseadvisors.com >http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd >Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com _________________________________________________________________ MSN Premium helps eliminate e-mail viruses. Get 2 months FREE* http://join.msn.com/?pgmarket=en-ca&page=byoa/prem&xAPID=1994&DI=1034&SU=http://hotmail.com/enca&HL=Market_MSNIS_Taglines -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From cfoust at infostatsystems.com Thu Mar 25 10:30:18 2004 From: cfoust at infostatsystems.com (Charlotte Foust) Date: Thu, 25 Mar 2004 08:30:18 -0800 Subject: [AccessD] Framework Discussion - set up question Message-ID: Sorry everyone. I wrote this before I read the earlier posts in the thread. Charlotte Foust -----Original Message----- From: Charlotte Foust Sent: Thursday, March 25, 2004 8:26 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] Framework Discussion - set up question In that case, why not just use a custom property and leave the tag alone? Charlotte Foust -----Original Message----- From: J?rgen Welz [mailto:jwelz at hotmail.com] Sent: Thursday, March 25, 2004 7:50 AM To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: RE: [AccessD] Framework Discussion - set up question I don't believe there is anything inherently incorrect about using the tag property or even storing multiple attributes separated by a delimiter. The difficulty arises when you want to integrate this functionality with existing code developed by someone else. Confilicting usages of the Tag result in the need to resolve code integration issues that arise. There is an excerpt from an O'Reilly Press book by Getz, Litwin and Baron at: http://www.oreilly.com/catalog/accesscook2/chapter/ch07.pdf starting at page 338 (p 47 of the pdf file) that provides a generic routine to set and get built in and user defined properties and create properties that don't exist. Although the code says it doesn't apply to Forms, it looks to me like it should since the code I use is virtually identical. I find the explanations particularly useful for things that learning developers frequently encounter such as the detailed examination of the 'Description' property of various DAO objects. Ciao J?rgen Welz Edmonton, Alberta jwelz at hotmail.com >From: "Developer" >Reply-To: Access Developers discussion and problem >solving >To: "'Access Developers discussion and problem >solving'" >Subject: RE: [AccessD] Framework Discussion - set up question >Date: Thu, 25 Mar 2004 09:45:08 -0500 >MIME-Version: 1.0 >Received: from mc12-f10.hotmail.com ([65.54.167.146]) by >mc12-s6.hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC(5.0.2195.6824); Thu, 25 Mar 2004 >06:44:47 -0800 >Received: from databaseadvisors.com ([209.135.140.44]) by >mc12-f10.hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC(5.0.2195.6824); Thu, 25 Mar >2004 06:44:47 -0800 >Received: from databaseadvisors.com (databaseadvisors.com >[209.135.140.44])by databaseadvisors.com (8.11.6/8.11.6) with ESMTP id >i2PEgpM13141;Thu, 25 Mar 2004 08:42:51 -0600 >Received: from >mail5.atl.registeredsite.com(nobody at mail5.atl.registeredsite.com >[64.224.219.79])by databaseadvisors.com (8.11.6/8.11.6) with ESMTP id >i2PEg6M12589for ; Thu, 25 Mar 2004 08:42:06 >-0600 >Received: from ultradnt.com ([66.223.127.28])by >mail5.atl.registeredsite.com (8.12.8/8.12.8) with ESMTP idi2PFgAZI025498for >; Thu, 25 Mar 2004 10:42:10 -0500 >Received: from COA3 (24-90-29-110.nyc.rr.com [24.90.29.110])by ultradnt.com >(8.11.6/8.11.0) with ESMTP id i2PEg7W37713for >;Thu, 25 Mar 2004 09:42:08 -0500 >(EST)(envelope-from Developer at UltraDNT.com) >X-Message-Info: NDMZeIBu+so8QwkCcmxHyFr1IWDH39BFYAoeFtQz14Y= >Message-ID: <002201c41277$cb044780$6401a8c0 at COA3> >X-MSMail-Priority: Normal >X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook, Build 10.0.4024 >In-Reply-To: >X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2600.0000 >X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by databaseadvisors.com >idi2PEg6M12589 >X-BeenThere: accessd at databaseadvisors.com >X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.4 >Precedence: list >List-Id: Access Developers discussion and problem >solving >List-Help: >List-Post: >List-Subscribe: >, >List-Archive: >List-Unsubscribe: >, >Errors-To: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com >Return-Path: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com >X-OriginalArrivalTime: 25 Mar 2004 14:44:47.0724 (UTC) >FILETIME=[B864D2C0:01C41277] > >Cool, thanks to both of you ... I always thought that using the Tag >felt a bit "hack-y" > >Steve > > >-----Original Message----- >From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com >[mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of John W. >Colby >Sent: Thursday, March 25, 2004 7:15 AM >To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving >Subject: RE: [AccessD] Framework Discussion - set up question > > >This is a great way to store control related stuff that you wish to >remain private since so few people even know that you can do this. >Just don't let Jurgen get a hold of it. ;-) > >John W. Colby >www.ColbyConsulting.com > >-----Original Message----- >From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com >[mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of J?rgen Welz >Sent: Thursday, March 25, 2004 1:15 AM >To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com >Subject: RE: [AccessD] Framework Discussion - set up question > > >I've posted the following before but perhaps should mention it again: >I too avoid using the tag. One may instead add user defined properties >to the form by appending to the properties collection of the form >document. You may add a property in the name of each control and read >and write these properties. The properties are persistent and apply to >all created instances of forms from the documents collections. Using a >property with the same name as a control or directly derived from the >control name by appending a prefix or suffix makes it as easy to >iterate as the controls collection and provides a simple means to >connect control and property. > >I guess the alternative is a naming convention for the type of combo. > >Ciao >J?rgen Welz >Edmonton, Alberta >jwelz at hotmail.com > > > > > > > >I don't see exactly where to tell the fw that , for example, on 2 > >different > >combo's Not In List, I want combo1 to pop a form for data-entry, but > >combo2 to silently undo and reject the newdata. Should this be set > >in the Tag property? . >. >. > >The bottom line is that the form scanning is difficult to program for > >this kind of stuff directly unless you do use the tag property and I > >have a personal distaste for using the tag so I don't. My good > >friend William started me moving away from using tags. He said "just > >give me a method to directly program behaviors and I'll do it > >explicitly". Now > > >I do just that. > > > >John W. Colby > >www.ColbyConsulting.com > > > >-----Original Message----- > >From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > >[mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Developer > >Sent: Wednesday, March 24, 2004 9:17 AM > >To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' > >Subject: RE: [AccessD] Framework Discussion - set up question > > > > > >I;ve been not able to read all the mail on the FW closely for the > >past week, so sorry if this is a repeat. I "get" the idea, and the > >form scanning, but I don't see exaclty where to tell the fw that , > >for example, on 2 different combo's Not In List, I want combo1 to pop > >a form for data-entry, but combo2 to silently undo and reject the > >newdata. Should this be set in the Tag property? > > > >Tia, > >Steve > >_________________________________________________________________ >Free yourself from those irritating pop-up ads with MSn Premium. Get >2months >FREE* >http://join.msn.com/?pgmarket=en-ca&page=byoa/prem&xAPID=1994&DI=1034&S >U >=htt >p://hotmail.com/enca&HL=Market_MSNIS_Taglines > >-- >_______________________________________________ >AccessD mailing list >AccessD at databaseadvisors.com >http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd >Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > >-- >_______________________________________________ >AccessD mailing list >AccessD at databaseadvisors.com >http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd >Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > >-- >_______________________________________________ >AccessD mailing list >AccessD at databaseadvisors.com >http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd >Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com _________________________________________________________________ MSN Premium helps eliminate e-mail viruses. Get 2 months FREE* http://join.msn.com/?pgmarket=en-ca&page=byoa/prem&xAPID=1994&DI=1034&SU=http://hotmail.com/enca&HL=Market_MSNIS_Taglines -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From jwelz at hotmail.com Thu Mar 25 10:51:05 2004 From: jwelz at hotmail.com (Jürgen Welz) Date: Thu, 25 Mar 2004 09:51:05 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] Framework Discussion - set up question Message-ID: That's a bit like saying not to use the description property because someone else somewhere might have a conflicting use for it. The Tag exists to be used and abused. For a little standalone MDE why not use it where it fits the need? When you're building a framework for other people to use, it makes a great deal of sense not to use it because of the very real probability of conflict. While it may be beneficial to cultivate the habit of not using the Tag, it does not help to disparage its use by others. I suspect that as a built in property, its use is easy to understand and although I haven't tested, Tags certainly won't be slower than custom properties. Ciao J?rgen Welz Edmonton, Alberta jwelz at hotmail.com >From: "Charlotte Foust" > >In that case, why not just use a custom property and leave the tag alone? > >Charlotte Foust > >-----Original Message----- >From: J?rgen Welz [mailto:jwelz at hotmail.com] >Sent: Thursday, March 25, 2004 7:50 AM >To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com >Subject: RE: [AccessD] Framework Discussion - set up question > > >I don't believe there is anything inherently incorrect about using the tag >property or even storing multiple attributes separated by a delimiter. The >difficulty arises when you want to integrate this functionality with >existing code developed by someone else. Confilicting usages of the Tag >result in the need to resolve code integration issues that arise. > >There is an excerpt from an O'Reilly Press book by Getz, Litwin and Baron >at: > >http://www.oreilly.com/catalog/accesscook2/chapter/ch07.pdf > >starting at page 338 (p 47 of the pdf file) that provides a generic routine >to set and get built in and user defined properties and create properties >that don't exist. Although the code says it doesn't apply to Forms, it >looks to me like it should since the code I use is virtually identical. I >find the explanations particularly useful for things that learning >developers frequently encounter such as the detailed examination of the >'Description' property of various DAO objects. > > >Ciao >J?rgen Welz >Edmonton, Alberta >jwelz at hotmail.com _________________________________________________________________ http://join.msn.com/?pgmarket=en-ca&page=byoa/prem&xAPID=1994&DI=1034&SU=http://hotmail.com/enca&HL=Market_MSNIS_Taglines From Developer at UltraDNT.com Thu Mar 25 11:02:07 2004 From: Developer at UltraDNT.com (Developer) Date: Thu, 25 Mar 2004 12:02:07 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Framework Discussion - set up question In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <003e01c4128a$ecf1e880$6401a8c0@COA3> My comment that Tag feels hacky, I guess is over-stating it ... But Tag sort of seems to me a shortcut like dlookup or docmd; as professionals we should have a better way. But either way not worthy of a bound/unbound or bang/dot level discussion! Steve -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Charlotte Foust Sent: Thursday, March 25, 2004 11:26 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] Framework Discussion - set up question In that case, why not just use a custom property and leave the tag alone? Charlotte Foust -----Original Message----- From: J?rgen Welz [mailto:jwelz at hotmail.com] Sent: Thursday, March 25, 2004 7:50 AM To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: RE: [AccessD] Framework Discussion - set up question I don't believe there is anything inherently incorrect about using the tag property or even storing multiple attributes separated by a delimiter. The difficulty arises when you want to integrate this functionality with existing code developed by someone else. Confilicting usages of the Tag result in the need to resolve code integration issues that arise. There is an excerpt from an O'Reilly Press book by Getz, Litwin and Baron at: http://www.oreilly.com/catalog/accesscook2/chapter/ch07.pdf starting at page 338 (p 47 of the pdf file) that provides a generic routine to set and get built in and user defined properties and create properties that don't exist. Although the code says it doesn't apply to Forms, it looks to me like it should since the code I use is virtually identical. I find the explanations particularly useful for things that learning developers frequently encounter such as the detailed examination of the 'Description' property of various DAO objects. Ciao J?rgen Welz Edmonton, Alberta jwelz at hotmail.com >From: "Developer" >Reply-To: Access Developers discussion and problem >solving >To: "'Access Developers discussion and problem >solving'" >Subject: RE: [AccessD] Framework Discussion - set up question >Date: Thu, 25 Mar 2004 09:45:08 -0500 >MIME-Version: 1.0 >Received: from mc12-f10.hotmail.com ([65.54.167.146]) by >mc12-s6.hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC(5.0.2195.6824); Thu, 25 Mar 2004 >06:44:47 -0800 >Received: from databaseadvisors.com ([209.135.140.44]) by >mc12-f10.hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC(5.0.2195.6824); Thu, 25 Mar >2004 06:44:47 -0800 >Received: from databaseadvisors.com (databaseadvisors.com >[209.135.140.44])by databaseadvisors.com (8.11.6/8.11.6) with ESMTP id >i2PEgpM13141;Thu, 25 Mar 2004 08:42:51 -0600 >Received: from >mail5.atl.registeredsite.com(nobody at mail5.atl.registeredsite.com >[64.224.219.79])by databaseadvisors.com (8.11.6/8.11.6) with ESMTP id >i2PEg6M12589for ; Thu, 25 Mar 2004 08:42:06 >-0600 >Received: from ultradnt.com ([66.223.127.28])by >mail5.atl.registeredsite.com (8.12.8/8.12.8) with ESMTP idi2PFgAZI025498for >; Thu, 25 Mar 2004 10:42:10 -0500 >Received: from COA3 (24-90-29-110.nyc.rr.com [24.90.29.110])by ultradnt.com >(8.11.6/8.11.0) with ESMTP id i2PEg7W37713for >;Thu, 25 Mar 2004 09:42:08 -0500 >(EST)(envelope-from Developer at UltraDNT.com) >X-Message-Info: NDMZeIBu+so8QwkCcmxHyFr1IWDH39BFYAoeFtQz14Y= >Message-ID: <002201c41277$cb044780$6401a8c0 at COA3> >X-MSMail-Priority: Normal >X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook, Build 10.0.4024 >In-Reply-To: >X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2600.0000 >X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by databaseadvisors.com >idi2PEg6M12589 >X-BeenThere: accessd at databaseadvisors.com >X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.4 >Precedence: list >List-Id: Access Developers discussion and problem >solving >List-Help: >List-Post: >List-Subscribe: >, >List-Archive: >List-Unsubscribe: >, >Errors-To: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com >Return-Path: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com >X-OriginalArrivalTime: 25 Mar 2004 14:44:47.0724 (UTC) >FILETIME=[B864D2C0:01C41277] > >Cool, thanks to both of you ... I always thought that using the Tag >felt a bit "hack-y" > >Steve > > >-----Original Message----- >From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com >[mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of John W. >Colby >Sent: Thursday, March 25, 2004 7:15 AM >To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving >Subject: RE: [AccessD] Framework Discussion - set up question > > >This is a great way to store control related stuff that you wish to >remain private since so few people even know that you can do this. >Just don't let Jurgen get a hold of it. ;-) > >John W. Colby >www.ColbyConsulting.com > >-----Original Message----- >From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com >[mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of J?rgen Welz >Sent: Thursday, March 25, 2004 1:15 AM >To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com >Subject: RE: [AccessD] Framework Discussion - set up question > > >I've posted the following before but perhaps should mention it again: >I too avoid using the tag. One may instead add user defined properties >to the form by appending to the properties collection of the form >document. You may add a property in the name of each control and read >and write these properties. The properties are persistent and apply to >all created instances of forms from the documents collections. Using a >property with the same name as a control or directly derived from the >control name by appending a prefix or suffix makes it as easy to >iterate as the controls collection and provides a simple means to >connect control and property. > >I guess the alternative is a naming convention for the type of combo. > >Ciao >J?rgen Welz >Edmonton, Alberta >jwelz at hotmail.com > > > > > > > >I don't see exactly where to tell the fw that , for example, on 2 > >different > >combo's Not In List, I want combo1 to pop a form for data-entry, but > >combo2 to silently undo and reject the newdata. Should this be set > >in the Tag property? . >. >. > >The bottom line is that the form scanning is difficult to program for > >this kind of stuff directly unless you do use the tag property and I > >have a personal distaste for using the tag so I don't. My good > >friend William started me moving away from using tags. He said "just > >give me a method to directly program behaviors and I'll do it > >explicitly". Now > > >I do just that. > > > >John W. Colby > >www.ColbyConsulting.com > > > >-----Original Message----- > >From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > >[mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Developer > >Sent: Wednesday, March 24, 2004 9:17 AM > >To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' > >Subject: RE: [AccessD] Framework Discussion - set up question > > > > > >I;ve been not able to read all the mail on the FW closely for the > >past week, so sorry if this is a repeat. I "get" the idea, and the > >form scanning, but I don't see exaclty where to tell the fw that , > >for example, on 2 different combo's Not In List, I want combo1 to pop > >a form for data-entry, but combo2 to silently undo and reject the > >newdata. Should this be set in the Tag property? > > > >Tia, > >Steve > >_________________________________________________________________ >Free yourself from those irritating pop-up ads with MSn Premium. Get >2months >FREE* >http://join.msn.com/?pgmarket=en-ca&page=byoa/prem&xAPID=1994&DI=1034&S >U >=htt >p://hotmail.com/enca&HL=Market_MSNIS_Taglines > >-- >_______________________________________________ >AccessD mailing list >AccessD at databaseadvisors.com >http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd >Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > >-- >_______________________________________________ >AccessD mailing list >AccessD at databaseadvisors.com >http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd >Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > >-- >_______________________________________________ >AccessD mailing list >AccessD at databaseadvisors.com >http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd >Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com _________________________________________________________________ MSN Premium helps eliminate e-mail viruses. Get 2 months FREE* http://join.msn.com/?pgmarket=en-ca&page=byoa/prem&xAPID=1994&DI=1034&SU =http://hotmail.com/enca&HL=Market_MSNIS_Taglines -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From ssharkins at bellsouth.net Thu Mar 25 11:02:44 2004 From: ssharkins at bellsouth.net (Susan Harkins) Date: Thu, 25 Mar 2004 12:02:44 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Framework Discussion - set up question In-Reply-To: <003e01c4128a$ecf1e880$6401a8c0@COA3> Message-ID: <20040325170239.KMI1780.imf23aec.mail.bellsouth.net@SUSANONE> Personally, I was hoping for a discussion of the validity and value of lookup fields. AHAHAAAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA Susan H. My comment that Tag feels hacky, I guess is over-stating it ... But Tag sort of seems to me a shortcut like dlookup or docmd; as professionals we should have a better way. But either way not worthy of a bound/unbound or bang/dot level discussion! From john at winhaven.net Thu Mar 25 11:46:46 2004 From: john at winhaven.net (John Bartow) Date: Thu, 25 Mar 2004 11:46:46 -0600 Subject: [AccessD] Framework Discussion - set up question In-Reply-To: <20040325170239.KMI1780.imf23aec.mail.bellsouth.net@SUSANONE> Message-ID: Susan, I've seen people joke about this before and I've just assumed I knew what they were referring to ("hard coded" delimited lists that are not stored in a table). Is this a correct assumption? John B. -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Susan Harkins Sent: Thursday, March 25, 2004 11:03 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: [AccessD] Framework Discussion - set up question Personally, I was hoping for a discussion of the validity and value of lookup fields. AHAHAAAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA Susan H. From cfoust at infostatsystems.com Thu Mar 25 11:47:39 2004 From: cfoust at infostatsystems.com (Charlotte Foust) Date: Thu, 25 Mar 2004 09:47:39 -0800 Subject: [AccessD] Framework Discussion - set up question Message-ID: But I *don't* use the description property. I create custom properties for things like DisplayName. Actually, I do use the tag when I set up labels to use as clickable column headers to sort by that column. I put the field name in the tag. But, of course, my label class checks to see if the tag is populated and just ignores the click if it isn't. Charlotte Foust -----Original Message----- From: J?rgen Welz [mailto:jwelz at hotmail.com] Sent: Thursday, March 25, 2004 8:51 AM To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: RE: [AccessD] Framework Discussion - set up question That's a bit like saying not to use the description property because someone else somewhere might have a conflicting use for it. The Tag exists to be used and abused. For a little standalone MDE why not use it where it fits the need? When you're building a framework for other people to use, it makes a great deal of sense not to use it because of the very real probability of conflict. While it may be beneficial to cultivate the habit of not using the Tag, it does not help to disparage its use by others. I suspect that as a built in property, its use is easy to understand and although I haven't tested, Tags certainly won't be slower than custom properties. Ciao J?rgen Welz Edmonton, Alberta jwelz at hotmail.com >From: "Charlotte Foust" > >In that case, why not just use a custom property and leave the tag >alone? > >Charlotte Foust > >-----Original Message----- >From: J?rgen Welz [mailto:jwelz at hotmail.com] >Sent: Thursday, March 25, 2004 7:50 AM >To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com >Subject: RE: [AccessD] Framework Discussion - set up question > > >I don't believe there is anything inherently incorrect about using the >tag property or even storing multiple attributes separated by a >delimiter. The difficulty arises when you want to integrate this >functionality with existing code developed by someone else. >Confilicting usages of the Tag result in the need to resolve code >integration issues that arise. > >There is an excerpt from an O'Reilly Press book by Getz, Litwin and >Baron >at: > >http://www.oreilly.com/catalog/accesscook2/chapter/ch07.pdf > >starting at page 338 (p 47 of the pdf file) that provides a generic >routine to set and get built in and user defined properties and create >properties that don't exist. Although the code says it doesn't apply >to Forms, it looks to me like it should since the code I use is >virtually identical. I find the explanations particularly useful for >things that learning developers frequently encounter such as the >detailed examination of the 'Description' property of various DAO >objects. > > >Ciao >J?rgen Welz >Edmonton, Alberta >jwelz at hotmail.com _________________________________________________________________ http://join.msn.com/?pgmarket=en-ca&page=byoa/prem&xAPID=1994&DI=1034&SU=http://hotmail.com/enca&HL=Market_MSNIS_Taglines -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From ssharkins at bellsouth.net Thu Mar 25 12:02:42 2004 From: ssharkins at bellsouth.net (Susan Harkins) Date: Thu, 25 Mar 2004 13:02:42 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Framework Discussion - set up question In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <20040325180237.HNFS1729.imf24aec.mail.bellsouth.net@SUSANONE> No. :) I'm talking about the built-in lookup field feature that lets you display a related value from another table. Open a table in Design view and click the Lookup tab in the Properties pane. Developers soundly trash them, but I find them rather cool -- and if abused, is that Access's fault? ;) I'm mostly in favor of anything that makes Access more available to the average user -- it IS a desktop application after all. No, I don't use them, and I often have to "undo" them in Northwind when I'm using that db in an article example, but I can see why users would like and use them. Here we goooooooooooooooooooo! ;) Susan H. Susan, I've seen people joke about this before and I've just assumed I knew what they were referring to ("hard coded" delimited lists that are not stored in a table). Is this a correct assumption? From cfoust at infostatsystems.com Thu Mar 25 12:20:18 2004 From: cfoust at infostatsystems.com (Charlotte Foust) Date: Thu, 25 Mar 2004 10:20:18 -0800 Subject: [AccessD] Framework Discussion - set up question Message-ID: >> I'm mostly in favor of anything that makes Access more available to the average user -- it IS a desktop application after all. Are you TRYING to start a fight, Susan?!!? Most of us have been trying for years to convince Microsoft that this is NOT a desktop application, it's a tool to *build* desktop applications. Let the flames begin! Charlotte Foust -----Original Message----- From: Susan Harkins [mailto:ssharkins at bellsouth.net] Sent: Thursday, March 25, 2004 10:03 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: [AccessD] Framework Discussion - set up question No. :) I'm talking about the built-in lookup field feature that lets you display a related value from another table. Open a table in Design view and click the Lookup tab in the Properties pane. Developers soundly trash them, but I find them rather cool -- and if abused, is that Access's fault? ;) I'm mostly in favor of anything that makes Access more available to the average user -- it IS a desktop application after all. No, I don't use them, and I often have to "undo" them in Northwind when I'm using that db in an article example, but I can see why users would like and use them. Here we goooooooooooooooooooo! ;) Susan H. Susan, I've seen people joke about this before and I've just assumed I knew what they were referring to ("hard coded" delimited lists that are not stored in a table). Is this a correct assumption? -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From john at winhaven.net Thu Mar 25 12:38:45 2004 From: john at winhaven.net (John Bartow) Date: Thu, 25 Mar 2004 12:38:45 -0600 Subject: [AccessD] Framework Discussion - set up question In-Reply-To: <20040325180237.HNFS1729.imf24aec.mail.bellsouth.net@SUSANONE> Message-ID: Oh, you mean the field property setting that then makes any controls based on that field have the lookup table/query fields preset to be a combo, list box, etc.? What the heck, I'll throw it out there, I haven't seen a debate on this one yet :o) I though it was a pretty hokey "feature" at first. IIRC correctly R:Base did this for you automatically if you placed a combo on a form that had a primary/foreign key relationship. In other words it actually used the entity relationships to do it for you. I don't generally use it but about the only thing I can think of hand is that it is not dynamic (in A97-I've never even looked into in A2k+). I did use this once in a situation (A97) where I had to allow for local user customization and I didn't trust any of the local users to have a clue beyond the card game. I figured they would get as far as opening datasheets and never figure out how to create forms so I set a lookup for every primary/foreign key relationship just because it would force the datasheets to display the values rather than the autonumberIDs. I had a few break on me there which is why I don't generally use them. What else in wrong with it? John "lighting fires" B. -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Susan Harkins Sent: Thursday, March 25, 2004 12:03 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: [AccessD] Framework Discussion - set up question No. :) I'm talking about the built-in lookup field feature that lets you display a related value from another table. Open a table in Design view and click the Lookup tab in the Properties pane. Developers soundly trash them, but I find them rather cool -- and if abused, is that Access's fault? ;) I'm mostly in favor of anything that makes Access more available to the average user -- it IS a desktop application after all. No, I don't use them, and I often have to "undo" them in Northwind when I'm using that db in an article example, but I can see why users would like and use them. Here we goooooooooooooooooooo! ;) Susan H. Susan, I've seen people joke about this before and I've just assumed I knew what they were referring to ("hard coded" delimited lists that are not stored in a table). Is this a correct assumption? -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From donald.a.Mcgillivray at mail.sprint.com Thu Mar 25 12:39:09 2004 From: donald.a.Mcgillivray at mail.sprint.com (Mcgillivray, Donald [ITS]) Date: Thu, 25 Mar 2004 12:39:09 -0600 Subject: [AccessD] Framework Discussion - set up question Message-ID: <6FC1C7A6E7BD5540AB0A8436713C43BF079DF50D@PKDWB01C.ad.sprint.com> Sounds like this is ground that has been tilled already, but I must have missed the discussion. At the risk of incurring the wrath of the "real" developers on the list, I'm keen to learn the specific objections to the use of this feature. I'm not saying that I use it . . . OK, I DO use it, but I'm not SAYING that. ;o) If there's a thread in the archives that I can browse, I'm happy to seek my answers there (a quick search on "lookup tab" and "table lookup" yielded goose-egg.) Otherwise, I (and perhaps others) would welcome a few "civil comments" on the topic. Don McG -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Susan Harkins Sent: Thursday, March 25, 2004 10:03 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: [AccessD] Framework Discussion - set up question No. :) I'm talking about the built-in lookup field feature that lets you display a related value from another table. Open a table in Design view and click the Lookup tab in the Properties pane. Developers soundly trash them, but I find them rather cool -- and if abused, is that Access's fault? ;) I'm mostly in favor of anything that makes Access more available to the average user -- it IS a desktop application after all. No, I don't use them, and I often have to "undo" them in Northwind when I'm using that db in an article example, but I can see why users would like and use them. Here we goooooooooooooooooooo! ;) Susan H. Susan, I've seen people joke about this before and I've just assumed I knew what they were referring to ("hard coded" delimited lists that are not stored in a table). Is this a correct assumption? -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From ssharkins at bellsouth.net Thu Mar 25 12:50:05 2004 From: ssharkins at bellsouth.net (Susan Harkins) Date: Thu, 25 Mar 2004 13:50:05 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Framework Discussion - set up question In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <20040325185000.YUWO1781.imf18aec.mail.bellsouth.net@SUSANONE> >> I'm mostly in favor of anything that makes Access more available to the average user -- it IS a desktop application after all. Are you TRYING to start a fight, Susan?!!? Most of us have been trying for years to convince Microsoft that this is NOT a desktop application, it's a tool to *build* desktop applications. Let the flames begin! ===========Me? I'm wounded... ;) Susan H. From ssharkins at bellsouth.net Thu Mar 25 12:53:43 2004 From: ssharkins at bellsouth.net (Susan Harkins) Date: Thu, 25 Mar 2004 13:53:43 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Framework Discussion - set up question In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <20040325185338.YWOP1781.imf18aec.mail.bellsouth.net@SUSANONE> What else in wrong with it? =============The main argument I was once given was that if you don't know they're there, you can make development errors. Well, if you don't know they're there, perhaps you shouldn't be developing in that particular database??????????? ;) The main advantage is to the user that wants to use lists but just doesn't have the expertise to do so. The table's lookup field is inherited by bound controls, which makes it an efficient solution for the user. Susan H. From my.lists at verizon.net Thu Mar 25 13:10:46 2004 From: my.lists at verizon.net (Francisco H Tapia) Date: Thu, 25 Mar 2004 11:10:46 -0800 Subject: [AccessD] Framework Discussion - set up question In-Reply-To: <20040325185338.YWOP1781.imf18aec.mail.bellsouth.net@SUSANONE> References: <20040325185338.YWOP1781.imf18aec.mail.bellsouth.net@SUSANONE> Message-ID: <40632EB6.2030006@verizon.net> Susan Harkins said the following on 3/25/2004 10:53 AM: >The main advantage is to the user that wants to use lists but just doesn't >have the expertise to do so. The table's lookup field is inherited by bound >controls, which makes it an efficient solution for the user. > > as with many things w/ Access.. just because you CAN do it doesn't mean you SHOULD. Of course Access is a Desktop application.. it has a lot of wizards and quick easy to use features that makes a lot of guys from marketing think they are developers :). This goes back to simple things that Access lets you do such as put spaces in your column and table names... Nice, yeah, practical, not really... -- -Francisco From cfoust at infostatsystems.com Thu Mar 25 13:33:19 2004 From: cfoust at infostatsystems.com (Charlotte Foust) Date: Thu, 25 Mar 2004 11:33:19 -0800 Subject: [AccessD] Framework Discussion - set up question Message-ID: "Civil comments"? Are you sure you're in the right list? Charlotte Foust -----Original Message----- From: Mcgillivray, Donald [ITS] [mailto:donald.a.Mcgillivray at mail.sprint.com] Sent: Thursday, March 25, 2004 10:39 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] Framework Discussion - set up question Sounds like this is ground that has been tilled already, but I must have missed the discussion. At the risk of incurring the wrath of the "real" developers on the list, I'm keen to learn the specific objections to the use of this feature. I'm not saying that I use it . . . OK, I DO use it, but I'm not SAYING that. ;o) If there's a thread in the archives that I can browse, I'm happy to seek my answers there (a quick search on "lookup tab" and "table lookup" yielded goose-egg.) Otherwise, I (and perhaps others) would welcome a few "civil comments" on the topic. Don McG -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Susan Harkins Sent: Thursday, March 25, 2004 10:03 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: [AccessD] Framework Discussion - set up question No. :) I'm talking about the built-in lookup field feature that lets you display a related value from another table. Open a table in Design view and click the Lookup tab in the Properties pane. Developers soundly trash them, but I find them rather cool -- and if abused, is that Access's fault? ;) I'm mostly in favor of anything that makes Access more available to the average user -- it IS a desktop application after all. No, I don't use them, and I often have to "undo" them in Northwind when I'm using that db in an article example, but I can see why users would like and use them. Here we goooooooooooooooooooo! ;) Susan H. Susan, I've seen people joke about this before and I've just assumed I knew what they were referring to ("hard coded" delimited lists that are not stored in a table). Is this a correct assumption? -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From cfoust at infostatsystems.com Thu Mar 25 13:38:55 2004 From: cfoust at infostatsystems.com (Charlotte Foust) Date: Thu, 25 Mar 2004 11:38:55 -0800 Subject: [AccessD] Framework Discussion - set up question Message-ID: For one thing, it can cause a lot of confusion among users who insist they have entered a particular string in a field and don't understand why they can't find it in a query. No, Virginia, the query isn't broken, but you're looking for the displayed value instead of the actual value, which is numeric! Why use something that shouldn't be needed and is just a lazy programmer's crutch in the first place. Users should NOT be looking at tables and developers should know better. They also add a level of querying that affects the performance and bloat of the database. Each one of the innocuous looking lookups is actually a SQL statement retrieving information from another table. Toss with a handful of "useful" automatic subdatasheets, and your performance goes out the window. Charlotte Foust -----Original Message----- From: John Bartow [mailto:john at winhaven.net] Sent: Thursday, March 25, 2004 10:39 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] Framework Discussion - set up question Oh, you mean the field property setting that then makes any controls based on that field have the lookup table/query fields preset to be a combo, list box, etc.? What the heck, I'll throw it out there, I haven't seen a debate on this one yet :o) I though it was a pretty hokey "feature" at first. IIRC correctly R:Base did this for you automatically if you placed a combo on a form that had a primary/foreign key relationship. In other words it actually used the entity relationships to do it for you. I don't generally use it but about the only thing I can think of hand is that it is not dynamic (in A97-I've never even looked into in A2k+). I did use this once in a situation (A97) where I had to allow for local user customization and I didn't trust any of the local users to have a clue beyond the card game. I figured they would get as far as opening datasheets and never figure out how to create forms so I set a lookup for every primary/foreign key relationship just because it would force the datasheets to display the values rather than the autonumberIDs. I had a few break on me there which is why I don't generally use them. What else in wrong with it? John "lighting fires" B. -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Susan Harkins Sent: Thursday, March 25, 2004 12:03 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: [AccessD] Framework Discussion - set up question No. :) I'm talking about the built-in lookup field feature that lets you display a related value from another table. Open a table in Design view and click the Lookup tab in the Properties pane. Developers soundly trash them, but I find them rather cool -- and if abused, is that Access's fault? ;) I'm mostly in favor of anything that makes Access more available to the average user -- it IS a desktop application after all. No, I don't use them, and I often have to "undo" them in Northwind when I'm using that db in an article example, but I can see why users would like and use them. Here we goooooooooooooooooooo! ;) Susan H. Susan, I've seen people joke about this before and I've just assumed I knew what they were referring to ("hard coded" delimited lists that are not stored in a table). Is this a correct assumption? -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From DWUTKA at marlow.com Thu Mar 25 13:44:53 2004 From: DWUTKA at marlow.com (DWUTKA at marlow.com) Date: Thu, 25 Mar 2004 13:44:53 -0600 Subject: [AccessD] Framework Discussion - set up question Message-ID: <2F8793082E00D4119A1700B0D0216BF8022279B5@main2.marlow.com> I have to agree with Susan on this. Yes, it is a tool to build desktop applications. However, so is Word, Excel, and even Outlook for that matter. VBA is a POWERFUL tool, and can quite frankly do anything it wants too, to a Windows OS. However, The Office Suite was ALSO meant to be a tool for the average user. No coding experience necessary to use any of the Office programs. This includes Access. Now, the fact that most users use Excel/Word, where they should be using Access, is simply due to the fact that most people hear the word 'database', and freak. Personally, I think that is do to overly complex systems built by 'professional developers'. The fact that the entire Office Suite is both easy to use, and powerful enough to create actual applications, should be a kudos to Microsoft, not a 'hot issue' to debate between developers. Now, what I feel needs to be 'fought' for, is the acceptance of Access throughout the db development world. I get tired of listening to SQL Server and Oracle developers who think of Access as a toy, instead of a database. Just my two cents. Drew -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Charlotte Foust Sent: Thursday, March 25, 2004 12:20 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] Framework Discussion - set up question >> I'm mostly in favor of anything that makes Access more available to the average user -- it IS a desktop application after all. Are you TRYING to start a fight, Susan?!!? Most of us have been trying for years to convince Microsoft that this is NOT a desktop application, it's a tool to *build* desktop applications. Let the flames begin! Charlotte Foust -----Original Message----- From: Susan Harkins [mailto:ssharkins at bellsouth.net] Sent: Thursday, March 25, 2004 10:03 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: [AccessD] Framework Discussion - set up question No. :) I'm talking about the built-in lookup field feature that lets you display a related value from another table. Open a table in Design view and click the Lookup tab in the Properties pane. Developers soundly trash them, but I find them rather cool -- and if abused, is that Access's fault? ;) I'm mostly in favor of anything that makes Access more available to the average user -- it IS a desktop application after all. No, I don't use them, and I often have to "undo" them in Northwind when I'm using that db in an article example, but I can see why users would like and use them. Here we goooooooooooooooooooo! ;) Susan H. Susan, I've seen people joke about this before and I've just assumed I knew what they were referring to ("hard coded" delimited lists that are not stored in a table). Is this a correct assumption? -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From DWUTKA at marlow.com Thu Mar 25 13:52:40 2004 From: DWUTKA at marlow.com (DWUTKA at marlow.com) Date: Thu, 25 Mar 2004 13:52:40 -0600 Subject: [AccessD] Framework Discussion - set up question Message-ID: <2F8793082E00D4119A1700B0D0216BF8022279B6@main2.marlow.com> I use it myself also. From code, it doesn't matter one lick, because ADO sees the values in those fields just as they are. However, it is extremely handy to have it setup that way, if you use Wizards to make your forms. (Or use the Field list to drag a bound control onto the form.). Even when I build unbound forms, I tend to use the form wizard to put the majority of the controls onto the form. I never knew there was a downside. What is it? Drew -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of John Bartow Sent: Thursday, March 25, 2004 12:39 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] Framework Discussion - set up question Oh, you mean the field property setting that then makes any controls based on that field have the lookup table/query fields preset to be a combo, list box, etc.? What the heck, I'll throw it out there, I haven't seen a debate on this one yet :o) I though it was a pretty hokey "feature" at first. IIRC correctly R:Base did this for you automatically if you placed a combo on a form that had a primary/foreign key relationship. In other words it actually used the entity relationships to do it for you. I don't generally use it but about the only thing I can think of hand is that it is not dynamic (in A97-I've never even looked into in A2k+). I did use this once in a situation (A97) where I had to allow for local user customization and I didn't trust any of the local users to have a clue beyond the card game. I figured they would get as far as opening datasheets and never figure out how to create forms so I set a lookup for every primary/foreign key relationship just because it would force the datasheets to display the values rather than the autonumberIDs. I had a few break on me there which is why I don't generally use them. What else in wrong with it? John "lighting fires" B. -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Susan Harkins Sent: Thursday, March 25, 2004 12:03 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: [AccessD] Framework Discussion - set up question No. :) I'm talking about the built-in lookup field feature that lets you display a related value from another table. Open a table in Design view and click the Lookup tab in the Properties pane. Developers soundly trash them, but I find them rather cool -- and if abused, is that Access's fault? ;) I'm mostly in favor of anything that makes Access more available to the average user -- it IS a desktop application after all. No, I don't use them, and I often have to "undo" them in Northwind when I'm using that db in an article example, but I can see why users would like and use them. Here we goooooooooooooooooooo! ;) Susan H. Susan, I've seen people joke about this before and I've just assumed I knew what they were referring to ("hard coded" delimited lists that are not stored in a table). Is this a correct assumption? -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From mwp.reid at qub.ac.uk Thu Mar 25 13:53:41 2004 From: mwp.reid at qub.ac.uk (Martin Reid) Date: Thu, 25 Mar 2004 19:53:41 -0000 Subject: [AccessD] Framework Discussion - set up question References: <2F8793082E00D4119A1700B0D0216BF8022279B5@main2.marlow.com> Message-ID: <000d01c412a2$e13d0110$1b02a8c0@MARTINREID> I agree with Drew Martin ----- Original Message ----- From: To: Sent: Thursday, March 25, 2004 7:44 PM Subject: RE: [AccessD] Framework Discussion - set up question > I have to agree with Susan on this. Yes, it is a tool to build desktop > applications. However, so is Word, Excel, and even Outlook for that matter. > VBA is a POWERFUL tool, and can quite frankly do anything it wants too, to a > Windows OS. However, The Office Suite was ALSO meant to be a tool for the > average user. No coding experience necessary to use any of the Office > programs. This includes Access. Now, the fact that most users use > Excel/Word, where they should be using Access, is simply due to the fact > that most people hear the word 'database', and freak. Personally, I think > that is do to overly complex systems built by 'professional developers'. > > The fact that the entire Office Suite is both easy to use, and powerful > enough to create actual applications, should be a kudos to Microsoft, not a > 'hot issue' to debate between developers. > > Now, what I feel needs to be 'fought' for, is the acceptance of Access > throughout the db development world. I get tired of listening to SQL Server > and Oracle developers who think of Access as a toy, instead of a database. > > Just my two cents. > > Drew > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Charlotte > Foust > Sent: Thursday, March 25, 2004 12:20 PM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: RE: [AccessD] Framework Discussion - set up question > > > >> I'm mostly in favor of anything that makes Access more available to > the average user -- it IS a desktop application after all. > > Are you TRYING to start a fight, Susan?!!? Most of us have been trying > for years to convince Microsoft that this is NOT a desktop application, > it's a tool to *build* desktop applications. Let the flames begin! > > Charlotte Foust > > -----Original Message----- > From: Susan Harkins [mailto:ssharkins at bellsouth.net] > Sent: Thursday, March 25, 2004 10:03 AM > To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' > Subject: RE: [AccessD] Framework Discussion - set up question > > > No. :) I'm talking about the built-in lookup field feature that lets you > display a related value from another table. Open a table in Design view > and click the Lookup tab in the Properties pane. > > Developers soundly trash them, but I find them rather cool -- and if > abused, is that Access's fault? ;) I'm mostly in favor of anything that > makes Access more available to the average user -- it IS a desktop > application after all. > > > No, I don't use them, and I often have to "undo" them in Northwind when > I'm using that db in an article example, but I can see why users would > like and use them. > > Here we goooooooooooooooooooo! ;) > > Susan H. > > Susan, > I've seen people joke about this before and I've just assumed I knew > what they were referring to ("hard coded" delimited lists that are not > stored in a table). > > Is this a correct assumption? > > > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > From DWUTKA at marlow.com Thu Mar 25 13:53:56 2004 From: DWUTKA at marlow.com (DWUTKA at marlow.com) Date: Thu, 25 Mar 2004 13:53:56 -0600 Subject: [AccessD] Framework Discussion - set up question Message-ID: <2F8793082E00D4119A1700B0D0216BF8022279B7@main2.marlow.com> What's impractical about Lookup stuff in a table design? Drew -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Francisco H Tapia Sent: Thursday, March 25, 2004 1:11 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Framework Discussion - set up question Susan Harkins said the following on 3/25/2004 10:53 AM: >The main advantage is to the user that wants to use lists but just doesn't >have the expertise to do so. The table's lookup field is inherited by bound >controls, which makes it an efficient solution for the user. > > as with many things w/ Access.. just because you CAN do it doesn't mean you SHOULD. Of course Access is a Desktop application.. it has a lot of wizards and quick easy to use features that makes a lot of guys from marketing think they are developers :). This goes back to simple things that Access lets you do such as put spaces in your column and table names... Nice, yeah, practical, not really... -- -Francisco -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From ssharkins at bellsouth.net Thu Mar 25 13:58:34 2004 From: ssharkins at bellsouth.net (Susan Harkins) Date: Thu, 25 Mar 2004 14:58:34 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] enable code builder Message-ID: <20040325195830.WVTW1763.imf21aec.mail.bellsouth.net@SUSANONE> I disabled the Code Builder dialog eons ago -- the intermediate dialog that opens after clicking the Builder button to the right of event fields. With it disabled, clicking the Builder button goes right to the module. How do I enable it? Thougth it should be a simple setting somewhere, but I can't find it. Susan H. From DWUTKA at marlow.com Thu Mar 25 13:58:36 2004 From: DWUTKA at marlow.com (DWUTKA at marlow.com) Date: Thu, 25 Mar 2004 13:58:36 -0600 Subject: [AccessD] Framework Discussion - set up question Message-ID: <2F8793082E00D4119A1700B0D0216BF8022279B8@main2.marlow.com> I don't get that 'main' argument. How could you NOT know that they are there? Granted, if I looked at a table, and saw that for Customer, it had a first name, instead of a CustomerID number, that I might be a little suspicious. However, entering that field, in the table, would show that it's a combo box, thus a lookup field, and I would know what is ACTUALLY stored within that field is a Long Integer foriegn key. (Or should be....LOL). Lookups are just part of Access' table design, and are relatively irrelevant when you use Access strictly as a BE. It's just like opening a table in datasheet view, and widening a column. It doesn't change the field size for that field, it just changes what you see when you are in datasheet view. Access remembers that too. (Still like to know WHERE it remembers it) But is that going to affect anything using that .mdb as a BE? No. I would really like to hear a solid reason for not using this. I'm definitely in the 'Use Lookup' camp otherwise. Drew -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Susan Harkins Sent: Thursday, March 25, 2004 12:54 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: [AccessD] Framework Discussion - set up question What else in wrong with it? =============The main argument I was once given was that if you don't know they're there, you can make development errors. Well, if you don't know they're there, perhaps you shouldn't be developing in that particular database??????????? ;) The main advantage is to the user that wants to use lists but just doesn't have the expertise to do so. The table's lookup field is inherited by bound controls, which makes it an efficient solution for the user. Susan H. -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From HollisVJ at pgdp.usec.com Thu Mar 25 14:00:45 2004 From: HollisVJ at pgdp.usec.com (Hollis,Virginia) Date: Thu, 25 Mar 2004 14:00:45 -0600 Subject: [AccessD] Framework Discussion - set up question Message-ID: <618EB4D6DDCDD3119B0A00508B6FD37A0CB0D425@cntexchange.pgdp.usec.com> >No, Virginia, the query isn't broken, but you're looking for the displayed value instead of the >actual value, which is numeric! I resemble that Santa clause phrase :-) Virginia -----Original Message----- From: Charlotte Foust [mailto:cfoust at infostatsystems.com] Sent: Thursday, March 25, 2004 1:39 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] Framework Discussion - set up question For one thing, it can cause a lot of confusion among users who insist they have entered a particular string in a field and don't understand why they can't find it in a query. No, Virginia, the query isn't broken, but you're looking for the displayed value instead of the actual value, which is numeric! Why use something that shouldn't be needed and is just a lazy programmer's crutch in the first place. Users should NOT be looking at tables and developers should know better. They also add a level of querying that affects the performance and bloat of the database. Each one of the innocuous looking lookups is actually a SQL statement retrieving information from another table. Toss with a handful of "useful" automatic subdatasheets, and your performance goes out the window. Charlotte Foust -----Original Message----- From: John Bartow [mailto:john at winhaven.net] Sent: Thursday, March 25, 2004 10:39 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] Framework Discussion - set up question Oh, you mean the field property setting that then makes any controls based on that field have the lookup table/query fields preset to be a combo, list box, etc.? What the heck, I'll throw it out there, I haven't seen a debate on this one yet :o) I though it was a pretty hokey "feature" at first. IIRC correctly R:Base did this for you automatically if you placed a combo on a form that had a primary/foreign key relationship. In other words it actually used the entity relationships to do it for you. I don't generally use it but about the only thing I can think of hand is that it is not dynamic (in A97-I've never even looked into in A2k+). I did use this once in a situation (A97) where I had to allow for local user customization and I didn't trust any of the local users to have a clue beyond the card game. I figured they would get as far as opening datasheets and never figure out how to create forms so I set a lookup for every primary/foreign key relationship just because it would force the datasheets to display the values rather than the autonumberIDs. I had a few break on me there which is why I don't generally use them. What else in wrong with it? John "lighting fires" B. -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Susan Harkins Sent: Thursday, March 25, 2004 12:03 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: [AccessD] Framework Discussion - set up question No. :) I'm talking about the built-in lookup field feature that lets you display a related value from another table. Open a table in Design view and click the Lookup tab in the Properties pane. Developers soundly trash them, but I find them rather cool -- and if abused, is that Access's fault? ;) I'm mostly in favor of anything that makes Access more available to the average user -- it IS a desktop application after all. No, I don't use them, and I often have to "undo" them in Northwind when I'm using that db in an article example, but I can see why users would like and use them. Here we goooooooooooooooooooo! ;) Susan H. Susan, I've seen people joke about this before and I've just assumed I knew what they were referring to ("hard coded" delimited lists that are not stored in a table). Is this a correct assumption? -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From ssharkins at bellsouth.net Thu Mar 25 14:02:03 2004 From: ssharkins at bellsouth.net (Susan Harkins) Date: Thu, 25 Mar 2004 15:02:03 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Framework Discussion - set up question In-Reply-To: <40632EB6.2030006@verizon.net> Message-ID: <20040325200201.WXVG1763.imf21aec.mail.bellsouth.net@SUSANONE> I just don't get the should/shouldn't argument. It's there, if it makes a user's life easier, he should use it. I'm not talking about professional paid for development, OK? I'm talking about users, plain old everyday users that want the ease and efficiency they're told they can get but don't have the development expertise to go after. Susan H. Susan Harkins said the following on 3/25/2004 10:53 AM: >The main advantage is to the user that wants to use lists but just >doesn't have the expertise to do so. The table's lookup field is >inherited by bound controls, which makes it an efficient solution for the user. > > as with many things w/ Access.. just because you CAN do it doesn't mean you SHOULD. Of course Access is a Desktop application.. it has a lot of wizards and quick easy to use features that makes a lot of guys from marketing think they are developers :). This goes back to simple things that Access lets you do such as put spaces in your column and table names... Nice, yeah, practical, not really... -- -Francisco -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From ssharkins at bellsouth.net Thu Mar 25 14:03:22 2004 From: ssharkins at bellsouth.net (Susan Harkins) Date: Thu, 25 Mar 2004 15:03:22 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Framework Discussion - set up question In-Reply-To: <2F8793082E00D4119A1700B0D0216BF8022279B5@main2.marlow.com> Message-ID: <20040325200317.WYPO1763.imf21aec.mail.bellsouth.net@SUSANONE> Couldn't have said it better myself. ;) To me there's no should or should nots when it comes to features -- there's just different people at different levels trying to get their work done. Susan H. I have to agree with Susan on this. Yes, it is a tool to build desktop applications. However, so is Word, Excel, and even Outlook for that matter. VBA is a POWERFUL tool, and can quite frankly do anything it wants too, to a Windows OS. However, The Office Suite was ALSO meant to be a tool for the average user. No coding experience necessary to use any of the Office programs. This includes Access. Now, the fact that most users use Excel/Word, where they should be using Access, is simply due to the fact that most people hear the word 'database', and freak. Personally, I think that is do to overly complex systems built by 'professional developers'. The fact that the entire Office Suite is both easy to use, and powerful enough to create actual applications, should be a kudos to Microsoft, not a 'hot issue' to debate between developers. Now, what I feel needs to be 'fought' for, is the acceptance of Access throughout the db development world. I get tired of listening to SQL Server and Oracle developers who think of Access as a toy, instead of a database. Just my two cents. Drew -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Charlotte Foust Sent: Thursday, March 25, 2004 12:20 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] Framework Discussion - set up question >> I'm mostly in favor of anything that makes Access more available to the average user -- it IS a desktop application after all. Are you TRYING to start a fight, Susan?!!? Most of us have been trying for years to convince Microsoft that this is NOT a desktop application, it's a tool to *build* desktop applications. Let the flames begin! Charlotte Foust -----Original Message----- From: Susan Harkins [mailto:ssharkins at bellsouth.net] Sent: Thursday, March 25, 2004 10:03 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: [AccessD] Framework Discussion - set up question No. :) I'm talking about the built-in lookup field feature that lets you display a related value from another table. Open a table in Design view and click the Lookup tab in the Properties pane. Developers soundly trash them, but I find them rather cool -- and if abused, is that Access's fault? ;) I'm mostly in favor of anything that makes Access more available to the average user -- it IS a desktop application after all. No, I don't use them, and I often have to "undo" them in Northwind when I'm using that db in an article example, but I can see why users would like and use them. Here we goooooooooooooooooooo! ;) Susan H. Susan, I've seen people joke about this before and I've just assumed I knew what they were referring to ("hard coded" delimited lists that are not stored in a table). Is this a correct assumption? -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From Patricia.O'Connor at DFA.STATE.NY.US Thu Mar 25 14:03:30 2004 From: Patricia.O'Connor at DFA.STATE.NY.US (O'Connor, Patricia ) Date: Thu, 25 Mar 2004 15:03:30 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Framework Discussion - set up question Message-ID: I agree with your last statement. I cannot use my years of access development as a basis for database and programming expertise. I do quite a bit with Oracle as my backend using Access as the front end. I also have applications with access tables and flat file uploads. But that does not count towards programming/database expertise/experience. Luckily, I have other "real" database experience that offsets it. I can understand part of the "look down the nose" attitude, because I have people in my office who say they are a database person and don't have the first clue as to design, usage, implementation, let alone normalization. They feel that way because they have 8-9 mini access databases that spit out data from queries. They don't have any knowledge of coding behind forms or modules. Because of those people, people like us on this list, don't get credit for applications developed with access. grrr Patti > -----Original Message----- > From: DWUTKA at marlow.com [mailto:DWUTKA at marlow.com] > Sent: Thursday, March 25, 2004 02:45 PM > To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com > Subject: RE: [AccessD] Framework Discussion - set up question > > > I have to agree with Susan on this. Yes, it is a tool to > build desktop > applications. However, so is Word, Excel, and even Outlook > for that matter. > VBA is a POWERFUL tool, and can quite frankly do anything it > wants too, to a > Windows OS. However, The Office Suite was ALSO meant to be a > tool for the > average user. No coding experience necessary to use any of the Office > programs. This includes Access. Now, the fact that most users use > Excel/Word, where they should be using Access, is simply due > to the fact > that most people hear the word 'database', and freak. > Personally, I think > that is do to overly complex systems built by 'professional > developers'. > > The fact that the entire Office Suite is both easy to use, > and powerful > enough to create actual applications, should be a kudos to > Microsoft, not a > 'hot issue' to debate between developers. > > Now, what I feel needs to be 'fought' for, is the acceptance of Access > throughout the db development world. I get tired of > listening to SQL Server > and Oracle developers who think of Access as a toy, instead > of a database. > > Just my two cents. > > Drew > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Charlotte > Foust > Sent: Thursday, March 25, 2004 12:20 PM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: RE: [AccessD] Framework Discussion - set up question > > > >> I'm mostly in favor of anything that makes Access more available to > the average user -- it IS a desktop application after all. > > Are you TRYING to start a fight, Susan?!!? Most of us have > been trying > for years to convince Microsoft that this is NOT a desktop > application, > it's a tool to *build* desktop applications. Let the flames begin! > > Charlotte Foust > > -----Original Message----- > From: Susan Harkins [mailto:ssharkins at bellsouth.net] > Sent: Thursday, March 25, 2004 10:03 AM > To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' > Subject: RE: [AccessD] Framework Discussion - set up question > > > No. :) I'm talking about the built-in lookup field feature > that lets you > display a related value from another table. Open a table in > Design view > and click the Lookup tab in the Properties pane. > > Developers soundly trash them, but I find them rather cool -- and if > abused, is that Access's fault? ;) I'm mostly in favor of > anything that > makes Access more available to the average user -- it IS a desktop > application after all. > > > No, I don't use them, and I often have to "undo" them in > Northwind when > I'm using that db in an article example, but I can see why users would > like and use them. > > Here we goooooooooooooooooooo! ;) > > Susan H. > > Susan, > I've seen people joke about this before and I've just assumed I knew > what they were referring to ("hard coded" delimited lists that are not > stored in a table). > > Is this a correct assumption? > > > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > From DWUTKA at marlow.com Thu Mar 25 14:05:07 2004 From: DWUTKA at marlow.com (DWUTKA at marlow.com) Date: Thu, 25 Mar 2004 14:05:07 -0600 Subject: [AccessD] Framework Discussion - set up question Message-ID: <2F8793082E00D4119A1700B0D0216BF8022279B9@main2.marlow.com> Those arguments conflict with each other. The 'lookups' should only affect a field in datasheet view. Therefore, if you say that it's a performance hit, you can't say that users shouldn't be looking at tables, because it wouldn't be a performance hit otherwise. How are they a lazy programmers crutch? If I have a table, that lists the fifty states, and I have several tables that require the state, putting the 'lookup' information into each table is going to save me a LOT of time down the road, as I build forms for those tables. Is it lazy to save development time? (I'd love to see someone argue that one...because telling a customer you charged them an extra hour, to setup comboboxes/listboxes for 50 forms, instead of doing it 2 or 3 times for 2 or three tables wouldn't get very far). Also, how does it bloat your database? I'm going to have to test that. I don't see how it could. If it really does bloat the db, then that's a valid argument, but it's also VERY poor design on MS's part. Drew -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Charlotte Foust Sent: Thursday, March 25, 2004 1:39 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] Framework Discussion - set up question For one thing, it can cause a lot of confusion among users who insist they have entered a particular string in a field and don't understand why they can't find it in a query. No, Virginia, the query isn't broken, but you're looking for the displayed value instead of the actual value, which is numeric! Why use something that shouldn't be needed and is just a lazy programmer's crutch in the first place. Users should NOT be looking at tables and developers should know better. They also add a level of querying that affects the performance and bloat of the database. Each one of the innocuous looking lookups is actually a SQL statement retrieving information from another table. Toss with a handful of "useful" automatic subdatasheets, and your performance goes out the window. Charlotte Foust -----Original Message----- From: John Bartow [mailto:john at winhaven.net] Sent: Thursday, March 25, 2004 10:39 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] Framework Discussion - set up question Oh, you mean the field property setting that then makes any controls based on that field have the lookup table/query fields preset to be a combo, list box, etc.? What the heck, I'll throw it out there, I haven't seen a debate on this one yet :o) I though it was a pretty hokey "feature" at first. IIRC correctly R:Base did this for you automatically if you placed a combo on a form that had a primary/foreign key relationship. In other words it actually used the entity relationships to do it for you. I don't generally use it but about the only thing I can think of hand is that it is not dynamic (in A97-I've never even looked into in A2k+). I did use this once in a situation (A97) where I had to allow for local user customization and I didn't trust any of the local users to have a clue beyond the card game. I figured they would get as far as opening datasheets and never figure out how to create forms so I set a lookup for every primary/foreign key relationship just because it would force the datasheets to display the values rather than the autonumberIDs. I had a few break on me there which is why I don't generally use them. What else in wrong with it? John "lighting fires" B. -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Susan Harkins Sent: Thursday, March 25, 2004 12:03 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: [AccessD] Framework Discussion - set up question No. :) I'm talking about the built-in lookup field feature that lets you display a related value from another table. Open a table in Design view and click the Lookup tab in the Properties pane. Developers soundly trash them, but I find them rather cool -- and if abused, is that Access's fault? ;) I'm mostly in favor of anything that makes Access more available to the average user -- it IS a desktop application after all. No, I don't use them, and I often have to "undo" them in Northwind when I'm using that db in an article example, but I can see why users would like and use them. Here we goooooooooooooooooooo! ;) Susan H. Susan, I've seen people joke about this before and I've just assumed I knew what they were referring to ("hard coded" delimited lists that are not stored in a table). Is this a correct assumption? -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From ssharkins at bellsouth.net Thu Mar 25 14:06:46 2004 From: ssharkins at bellsouth.net (Susan Harkins) Date: Thu, 25 Mar 2004 15:06:46 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Framework Discussion - set up question In-Reply-To: <2F8793082E00D4119A1700B0D0216BF8022279B7@main2.marlow.com> Message-ID: <20040325200640.XANL1763.imf21aec.mail.bellsouth.net@SUSANONE> I think the main problem developers have with it is really the problems users create when they start fiddling around with things they're not supposed to -- and that's a different basket altogether. If a user doesn't have access to the tables, they can't build a lookup field and mess stuff up. If the developer uses a lookup field, then the developer simply needs to compensate throughout the application, including those queries Charlotte was talking about. However, I think most developers would skip the lookup field and compensate. Susan H. What's impractical about Lookup stuff in a table design? From Bryan_Carbonnell at cbc.ca Thu Mar 25 14:10:11 2004 From: Bryan_Carbonnell at cbc.ca (Bryan Carbonnell) Date: Thu, 25 Mar 2004 15:10:11 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] enable code builder Message-ID: Tools|Options.... Forms/Reports Tab Down at the bottom UNcheck "Always Use Event Procedures" Bryan Carbonnell bryan_carbonnell at cbc.ca >>> ssharkins at bellsouth.net 25-Mar-04 2:58:34 PM >>> I disabled the Code Builder dialog eons ago -- the intermediate dialog that opens after clicking the Builder button to the right of event fields. With it disabled, clicking the Builder button goes right to the module. How do I enable it? Thougth it should be a simple setting somewhere, but I can't find it. Susan H. -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From DWUTKA at marlow.com Thu Mar 25 14:10:53 2004 From: DWUTKA at marlow.com (DWUTKA at marlow.com) Date: Thu, 25 Mar 2004 14:10:53 -0600 Subject: [AccessD] Framework Discussion - set up question Message-ID: <2F8793082E00D4119A1700B0D0216BF8022279BA@main2.marlow.com> I don't know. Last sentence, first paragraph should have had due, instead of do. I think you would have caught that, so you could have said it better. LOL Drew -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Susan Harkins Sent: Thursday, March 25, 2004 2:03 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: [AccessD] Framework Discussion - set up question Couldn't have said it better myself. ;) To me there's no should or should nots when it comes to features -- there's just different people at different levels trying to get their work done. Susan H. I have to agree with Susan on this. Yes, it is a tool to build desktop applications. However, so is Word, Excel, and even Outlook for that matter. VBA is a POWERFUL tool, and can quite frankly do anything it wants too, to a Windows OS. However, The Office Suite was ALSO meant to be a tool for the average user. No coding experience necessary to use any of the Office programs. This includes Access. Now, the fact that most users use Excel/Word, where they should be using Access, is simply due to the fact that most people hear the word 'database', and freak. Personally, I think that is do to overly complex systems built by 'professional developers'. The fact that the entire Office Suite is both easy to use, and powerful enough to create actual applications, should be a kudos to Microsoft, not a 'hot issue' to debate between developers. Now, what I feel needs to be 'fought' for, is the acceptance of Access throughout the db development world. I get tired of listening to SQL Server and Oracle developers who think of Access as a toy, instead of a database. Just my two cents. Drew -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Charlotte Foust Sent: Thursday, March 25, 2004 12:20 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] Framework Discussion - set up question >> I'm mostly in favor of anything that makes Access more available to the average user -- it IS a desktop application after all. Are you TRYING to start a fight, Susan?!!? Most of us have been trying for years to convince Microsoft that this is NOT a desktop application, it's a tool to *build* desktop applications. Let the flames begin! Charlotte Foust -----Original Message----- From: Susan Harkins [mailto:ssharkins at bellsouth.net] Sent: Thursday, March 25, 2004 10:03 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: [AccessD] Framework Discussion - set up question No. :) I'm talking about the built-in lookup field feature that lets you display a related value from another table. Open a table in Design view and click the Lookup tab in the Properties pane. Developers soundly trash them, but I find them rather cool -- and if abused, is that Access's fault? ;) I'm mostly in favor of anything that makes Access more available to the average user -- it IS a desktop application after all. No, I don't use them, and I often have to "undo" them in Northwind when I'm using that db in an article example, but I can see why users would like and use them. Here we goooooooooooooooooooo! ;) Susan H. Susan, I've seen people joke about this before and I've just assumed I knew what they were referring to ("hard coded" delimited lists that are not stored in a table). Is this a correct assumption? -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From HollisVJ at pgdp.usec.com Thu Mar 25 14:16:05 2004 From: HollisVJ at pgdp.usec.com (Hollis,Virginia) Date: Thu, 25 Mar 2004 14:16:05 -0600 Subject: [AccessD] enable code builder Message-ID: <618EB4D6DDCDD3119B0A00508B6FD37A0CB0D426@cntexchange.pgdp.usec.com> Tools, Options, Forms/Reports tab, uncheck Always Use Event Procedures. -----Original Message----- From: Susan Harkins [mailto:ssharkins at bellsouth.net] Sent: Thursday, March 25, 2004 1:59 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: [AccessD] enable code builder I disabled the Code Builder dialog eons ago -- the intermediate dialog that opens after clicking the Builder button to the right of event fields. With it disabled, clicking the Builder button goes right to the module. How do I enable it? Thougth it should be a simple setting somewhere, but I can't find it. Susan H. -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From ssharkins at bellsouth.net Thu Mar 25 14:27:58 2004 From: ssharkins at bellsouth.net (Susan Harkins) Date: Thu, 25 Mar 2004 15:27:58 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] enable code builder In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <20040325202753.VMB1781.imf18aec.mail.bellsouth.net@SUSANONE> Thanks to both of you -- that was it. I even looked there, but I just didn't get the connection -- I was looking for a Code Builder option of some sort. Susan H. Tools|Options.... Forms/Reports Tab Down at the bottom UNcheck "Always Use Event Procedures" Bryan Carbonnell bryan_carbonnell at cbc.ca From DWUTKA at marlow.com Thu Mar 25 14:27:57 2004 From: DWUTKA at marlow.com (DWUTKA at marlow.com) Date: Thu, 25 Mar 2004 14:27:57 -0600 Subject: [AccessD] Framework Discussion - set up question Message-ID: <2F8793082E00D4119A1700B0D0216BF8022279BB@main2.marlow.com> Now there is a pet peeve of mine. Access User level security is more then adequate to prevent users for 'goofing around' with your database. My pet peeve is developers who don't understand Access User Level security. LOL Drew -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Susan Harkins Sent: Thursday, March 25, 2004 2:07 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: [AccessD] Framework Discussion - set up question I think the main problem developers have with it is really the problems users create when they start fiddling around with things they're not supposed to -- and that's a different basket altogether. If a user doesn't have access to the tables, they can't build a lookup field and mess stuff up. If the developer uses a lookup field, then the developer simply needs to compensate throughout the application, including those queries Charlotte was talking about. However, I think most developers would skip the lookup field and compensate. Susan H. What's impractical about Lookup stuff in a table design? -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From DWUTKA at marlow.com Thu Mar 25 14:32:01 2004 From: DWUTKA at marlow.com (DWUTKA at marlow.com) Date: Thu, 25 Mar 2004 14:32:01 -0600 Subject: [AccessD] Framework Discussion - set up question Message-ID: <2F8793082E00D4119A1700B0D0216BF8022279BC@main2.marlow.com> Yep, it all boils down to using the right tool. Access is definitely more limited then server side db's, in many ways, however, that doesn't mean it isn't adequate for the infinite uses that fit within those limits. The simple fact that an access database is a single .mdb file, all by itself is an advantage over server side databases. I am not mocking server side db's, far from it, but I believe you should use the right tool for the right job. I may stretch the limits of Access a bit, but I would never say 'no' to switching to a server db if asked. A lot of times it boils down to money, and that alone can be an another advantage of Access. Drew -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of O'Connor, Patricia Sent: Thursday, March 25, 2004 2:04 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: [AccessD] Framework Discussion - set up question I agree with your last statement. I cannot use my years of access development as a basis for database and programming expertise. I do quite a bit with Oracle as my backend using Access as the front end. I also have applications with access tables and flat file uploads. But that does not count towards programming/database expertise/experience. Luckily, I have other "real" database experience that offsets it. I can understand part of the "look down the nose" attitude, because I have people in my office who say they are a database person and don't have the first clue as to design, usage, implementation, let alone normalization. They feel that way because they have 8-9 mini access databases that spit out data from queries. They don't have any knowledge of coding behind forms or modules. Because of those people, people like us on this list, don't get credit for applications developed with access. grrr Patti > -----Original Message----- > From: DWUTKA at marlow.com [mailto:DWUTKA at marlow.com] > Sent: Thursday, March 25, 2004 02:45 PM > To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com > Subject: RE: [AccessD] Framework Discussion - set up question > > > I have to agree with Susan on this. Yes, it is a tool to > build desktop > applications. However, so is Word, Excel, and even Outlook > for that matter. > VBA is a POWERFUL tool, and can quite frankly do anything it > wants too, to a > Windows OS. However, The Office Suite was ALSO meant to be a > tool for the > average user. No coding experience necessary to use any of the Office > programs. This includes Access. Now, the fact that most users use > Excel/Word, where they should be using Access, is simply due > to the fact > that most people hear the word 'database', and freak. > Personally, I think > that is do to overly complex systems built by 'professional > developers'. > > The fact that the entire Office Suite is both easy to use, > and powerful > enough to create actual applications, should be a kudos to > Microsoft, not a > 'hot issue' to debate between developers. > > Now, what I feel needs to be 'fought' for, is the acceptance of Access > throughout the db development world. I get tired of > listening to SQL Server > and Oracle developers who think of Access as a toy, instead > of a database. > > Just my two cents. > > Drew > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Charlotte > Foust > Sent: Thursday, March 25, 2004 12:20 PM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: RE: [AccessD] Framework Discussion - set up question > > > >> I'm mostly in favor of anything that makes Access more available to > the average user -- it IS a desktop application after all. > > Are you TRYING to start a fight, Susan?!!? Most of us have > been trying > for years to convince Microsoft that this is NOT a desktop > application, > it's a tool to *build* desktop applications. Let the flames begin! > > Charlotte Foust > > -----Original Message----- > From: Susan Harkins [mailto:ssharkins at bellsouth.net] > Sent: Thursday, March 25, 2004 10:03 AM > To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' > Subject: RE: [AccessD] Framework Discussion - set up question > > > No. :) I'm talking about the built-in lookup field feature > that lets you > display a related value from another table. Open a table in > Design view > and click the Lookup tab in the Properties pane. > > Developers soundly trash them, but I find them rather cool -- and if > abused, is that Access's fault? ;) I'm mostly in favor of > anything that > makes Access more available to the average user -- it IS a desktop > application after all. > > > No, I don't use them, and I often have to "undo" them in > Northwind when > I'm using that db in an article example, but I can see why users would > like and use them. > > Here we goooooooooooooooooooo! ;) > > Susan H. > > Susan, > I've seen people joke about this before and I've just assumed I knew > what they were referring to ("hard coded" delimited lists that are not > stored in a table). > > Is this a correct assumption? > > > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com Thu Mar 25 14:41:15 2004 From: jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com (John W. Colby) Date: Thu, 25 Mar 2004 15:41:15 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Framework Discussion - set up question In-Reply-To: Message-ID: ROTFL. -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Charlotte Foust Sent: Thursday, March 25, 2004 2:33 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] Framework Discussion - set up question "Civil comments"? Are you sure you're in the right list? Charlotte Foust -----Original Message----- From: Mcgillivray, Donald [ITS] [mailto:donald.a.Mcgillivray at mail.sprint.com] Sent: Thursday, March 25, 2004 10:39 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] Framework Discussion - set up question Sounds like this is ground that has been tilled already, but I must have missed the discussion. At the risk of incurring the wrath of the "real" developers on the list, I'm keen to learn the specific objections to the use of this feature. I'm not saying that I use it . . . OK, I DO use it, but I'm not SAYING that. ;o) If there's a thread in the archives that I can browse, I'm happy to seek my answers there (a quick search on "lookup tab" and "table lookup" yielded goose-egg.) Otherwise, I (and perhaps others) would welcome a few "civil comments" on the topic. Don McG -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Susan Harkins Sent: Thursday, March 25, 2004 10:03 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: [AccessD] Framework Discussion - set up question No. :) I'm talking about the built-in lookup field feature that lets you display a related value from another table. Open a table in Design view and click the Lookup tab in the Properties pane. Developers soundly trash them, but I find them rather cool -- and if abused, is that Access's fault? ;) I'm mostly in favor of anything that makes Access more available to the average user -- it IS a desktop application after all. No, I don't use them, and I often have to "undo" them in Northwind when I'm using that db in an article example, but I can see why users would like and use them. Here we goooooooooooooooooooo! ;) Susan H. Susan, I've seen people joke about this before and I've just assumed I knew what they were referring to ("hard coded" delimited lists that are not stored in a table). Is this a correct assumption? -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From DWUTKA at marlow.com Thu Mar 25 15:10:07 2004 From: DWUTKA at marlow.com (DWUTKA at marlow.com) Date: Thu, 25 Mar 2004 15:10:07 -0600 Subject: [AccessD] Lookup Fields in Table Design Message-ID: <2F8793082E00D4119A1700B0D0216BF8022279BD@main2.marlow.com> Okay, the three reasons given so far for not using the Lookup feature in your table designs are: #1: Lazy developer tool, which can confuse users. #2: Performance Decrease. #3: Bloat Okay, for number one, I personally don't see a point in arguing against that, because it's too darn easy to confuse users. If we didn't use something that could confuse a user, we would have to kick our computers out the door! LOL (sorry, couldn't resist). Now for Number 2. Did a simple test. I created a database with a simple lookup table (with a list of states) and then added a table that had a 'State' field. Copied that database, and then added a lookup for the State field, using the tblStates table. Then I created a little code which added 200,000 records to tblCustomerInfo (my 'dummy' table). BOTH databases took about the same amount of time to enter records. (used an INSERT INTO statement.....that took a while, probably would have been faster to use the Add method of a recordset. Either way, both processes took about the same amount of time.). With 200,000 records in the table, in both databases, opening the table in datasheet view takes the same amount of time in either database. Thus, no performance decrease at all. Number 3. Well, I checked the size of both databases along the whole process. (I did put the lookup table in both databases, so they should have been the same 'size'). Guess what, they were. Started at 92,160 bytes (each) with no data other then the US States, and after 200,000 records, both databases were 5,869,568 bytes. I even manually added records (about a dozen), and both databases were still the same size (in bytes), though I didn't write those numbers down. However, and this is a BIG however. I found a distinct advantage to using a Lookup field. In the database with the Lookup field, I had set the Limit to List property to Yes. I then tweaked my code, and added "XX", instead of a random state, for 10 records. BOTH databases added 10 records with XX in it. Going to the Non-lookup database, I could still manually enter a record with XX as the State. Going to the Lookup database, I could NOT manually enter XX, because it wouldn't let me enter a state not on the list. Setting the field validation for <>"XX" in both tables, prevented the code from adding new records with that value. So that is a very interesting advantage. It allows you to enforce 'user' data entry 'rules', while allowing code inserted/modified data to bypass. That could be handy. One last note. The 'lookup' capability does NOT have to be a SQL statement. Combo boxes and listboxes can both use Callback functions. This DOES apply to Lookup fields. (did a test. Used a previously built Callback function that lists the reports in a db for list/combo box, and added it to a field's lookup property. sure enough, it listed the reports when entering that field.) Drew From john at winhaven.net Thu Mar 25 15:12:38 2004 From: john at winhaven.net (John Bartow) Date: Thu, 25 Mar 2004 15:12:38 -0600 Subject: [AccessD] Framework Discussion - set up question In-Reply-To: <40632EB6.2030006@verizon.net> Message-ID: On the other hand, just because "power users" can do it doesn't mean "developers" shouldn't do it. (Chalk null up for either side) as with many things w/ Access.. just because you CAN do it doesn't mean you SHOULD. Of course Access is a Desktop application.. it has a lot of wizards and quick easy to use features that makes a lot of guys from marketing think they are developers :). This goes back to simple things that Access lets you do such as put spaces in your column and table names... Nice, yeah, practical, not really... -- -Francisco From john at winhaven.net Thu Mar 25 15:12:39 2004 From: john at winhaven.net (John Bartow) Date: Thu, 25 Mar 2004 15:12:39 -0600 Subject: [AccessD] Framework Discussion - set up question In-Reply-To: Message-ID: In Line: For one thing, it can cause a lot of confusion among users who insist they have entered a particular string in a field and don't understand why they can't find it in a query. No, Virginia, the query isn't broken, but you're looking for the displayed value instead of the actual value, which is numeric! Good Point. But then again, many "normal" people have no idea what a "query" is. -But chalk one up for the nay-sayers. Why use something that shouldn't be needed and is just a lazy programmer's crutch in the first place. Users should NOT be looking at tables and developers should know better. Unless its part of the specification that they can. -Uneccessrily flamatory one penalty point for the nay-sayers ;o) They also add a level of querying that affects the performance and bloat of the database. Each one of the innocuous looking lookups is actually a SQL statement retrieving information from another table. Toss with a handful of "useful" automatic subdatasheets, and your performance goes out the window. -But chalk another one up for the nay-sayers. score 2: nay-sayers 0: sayers Charlotte Foust From john at winhaven.net Thu Mar 25 15:12:39 2004 From: john at winhaven.net (John Bartow) Date: Thu, 25 Mar 2004 15:12:39 -0600 Subject: [AccessD] Framework Discussion - set up question In-Reply-To: <20040325185338.YWOP1781.imf18aec.mail.bellsouth.net@SUSANONE> Message-ID: Yeah, just like me, light a fire and run! I'm baaack! ;o) -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Susan Harkins Sent: Thursday, March 25, 2004 12:54 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: [AccessD] Framework Discussion - set up question What else in wrong with it? =============The main argument I was once given was that if you don't know they're there, you can make development errors. Well, if you don't know they're there, perhaps you shouldn't be developing in that particular database??????????? ;) The main advantage is to the user that wants to use lists but just doesn't have the expertise to do so. The table's lookup field is inherited by bound controls, which makes it an efficient solution for the user. Susan H. From john at winhaven.net Thu Mar 25 15:12:40 2004 From: john at winhaven.net (John Bartow) Date: Thu, 25 Mar 2004 15:12:40 -0600 Subject: [AccessD] Framework Discussion - set up question In-Reply-To: <2F8793082E00D4119A1700B0D0216BF8022279B5@main2.marlow.com> Message-ID: VERY passionate, non-argumentative style, point. One point sayers! Score 2: nay-sayers / 1 sayers -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of DWUTKA at marlow.com Sent: Thursday, March 25, 2004 1:45 PM To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: RE: [AccessD] Framework Discussion - set up question I have to agree with Susan on this. Yes, it is a tool to build desktop applications. However, so is Word, Excel, and even Outlook for that matter. VBA is a POWERFUL tool, and can quite frankly do anything it wants too, to a Windows OS. However, The Office Suite was ALSO meant to be a tool for the average user. No coding experience necessary to use any of the Office programs. This includes Access. Now, the fact that most users use Excel/Word, where they should be using Access, is simply due to the fact that most people hear the word 'database', and freak. Personally, I think that is do to overly complex systems built by 'professional developers'. The fact that the entire Office Suite is both easy to use, and powerful enough to create actual applications, should be a kudos to Microsoft, not a 'hot issue' to debate between developers. Now, what I feel needs to be 'fought' for, is the acceptance of Access throughout the db development world. I get tired of listening to SQL Server and Oracle developers who think of Access as a toy, instead of a database. Just my two cents. Drew From john at winhaven.net Thu Mar 25 15:12:41 2004 From: john at winhaven.net (John Bartow) Date: Thu, 25 Mar 2004 15:12:41 -0600 Subject: [AccessD] Framework Discussion - set up question In-Reply-To: <000d01c412a2$e13d0110$1b02a8c0@MARTINREID> Message-ID: A ditto counts for .5 point Score: 2 nay-sayers 1.5 sayers -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Martin Reid Sent: Thursday, March 25, 2004 1:54 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Framework Discussion - set up question I agree with Drew Martin From my.lists at verizon.net Thu Mar 25 15:18:37 2004 From: my.lists at verizon.net (Francisco H Tapia) Date: Thu, 25 Mar 2004 13:18:37 -0800 Subject: [AccessD] Framework Discussion - set up question In-Reply-To: <2F8793082E00D4119A1700B0D0216BF8022279B7@main2.marlow.com> References: <2F8793082E00D4119A1700B0D0216BF8022279B7@main2.marlow.com> Message-ID: <40634CAD.9070000@verizon.net> DWUTKA at marlow.com said the following on 3/25/2004 11:53 AM: >What's impractical about Lookup stuff in a table design? > > 1) When you query the table you're querying against some text... instead of ID's... while there is no one right way.. you're adding confusion. 2) when you want to add additonal columns so that the sub table can have it's own set of attributes because the system has "grown" you'll need to revisit the table to make the changes for the FE, but if you're using some sort of BE/FE setup then you can't do anything until all the users are out :) -- -Francisco From john at winhaven.net Thu Mar 25 15:19:57 2004 From: john at winhaven.net (John Bartow) Date: Thu, 25 Mar 2004 15:19:57 -0600 Subject: [AccessD] Framework Discussion - set up question In-Reply-To: <2F8793082E00D4119A1700B0D0216BF8022279B8@main2.marlow.com> Message-ID: Woa! Another passionate comment! One point sayers! Actually I won't count my dittos here: If its going to be a potential problem when you pick up the job, just run code to eliminate them all. Score: 2 nay-sayers 2.5 sayers -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of DWUTKA at marlow.com Sent: Thursday, March 25, 2004 1:59 PM To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: RE: [AccessD] Framework Discussion - set up question I don't get that 'main' argument. How could you NOT know that they are there? Granted, if I looked at a table, and saw that for Customer, it had a first name, instead of a CustomerID number, that I might be a little suspicious. However, entering that field, in the table, would show that it's a combo box, thus a lookup field, and I would know what is ACTUALLY stored within that field is a Long Integer foriegn key. (Or should be....LOL). Lookups are just part of Access' table design, and are relatively irrelevant when you use Access strictly as a BE. It's just like opening a table in datasheet view, and widening a column. It doesn't change the field size for that field, it just changes what you see when you are in datasheet view. Access remembers that too. (Still like to know WHERE it remembers it) But is that going to affect anything using that .mdb as a BE? No. I would really like to hear a solid reason for not using this. I'm definitely in the 'Use Lookup' camp otherwise. Drew From john at winhaven.net Thu Mar 25 15:19:58 2004 From: john at winhaven.net (John Bartow) Date: Thu, 25 Mar 2004 15:19:58 -0600 Subject: [AccessD] Framework Discussion - set up question In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Kind of like the respect issue between drivers for NASCAR versus Formula 1. -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of O'Connor, Patricia Sent: Thursday, March 25, 2004 2:03 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: [AccessD] Framework Discussion - set up question I agree with your last statement. I cannot use my years of access development as a basis for database and programming expertise. I do quite a bit with Oracle as my backend using Access as the front end. I also have applications with access tables and flat file uploads. But that does not count towards programming/database expertise/experience. Luckily, I have other "real" database experience that offsets it. I can understand part of the "look down the nose" attitude, because I have people in my office who say they are a database person and don't have the first clue as to design, usage, implementation, let alone normalization. They feel that way because they have 8-9 mini access databases that spit out data from queries. They don't have any knowledge of coding behind forms or modules. Because of those people, people like us on this list, don't get credit for applications developed with access. grrr Patti From john at winhaven.net Thu Mar 25 15:19:59 2004 From: john at winhaven.net (John Bartow) Date: Thu, 25 Mar 2004 15:19:59 -0600 Subject: [AccessD] Lookup Fields in Table Design In-Reply-To: <2F8793082E00D4119A1700B0D0216BF8022279BD@main2.marlow.com> Message-ID: Slam and dunk! 5 point sayers! Score: 2 nay-sayers / 7.5 sayers -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of DWUTKA at marlow.com Sent: Thursday, March 25, 2004 3:10 PM To: AccessD at databaseadvisors.com Subject: [AccessD] Lookup Fields in Table Design Okay, the three reasons given so far for not using the Lookup feature in your table designs are: #1: Lazy developer tool, which can confuse users. #2: Performance Decrease. #3: Bloat Okay, for number one, I personally don't see a point in arguing against that, because it's too darn easy to confuse users. If we didn't use something that could confuse a user, we would have to kick our computers out the door! LOL (sorry, couldn't resist). Now for Number 2. Did a simple test. I created a database with a simple lookup table (with a list of states) and then added a table that had a 'State' field. Copied that database, and then added a lookup for the State field, using the tblStates table. Then I created a little code which added 200,000 records to tblCustomerInfo (my 'dummy' table). BOTH databases took about the same amount of time to enter records. (used an INSERT INTO statement.....that took a while, probably would have been faster to use the Add method of a recordset. Either way, both processes took about the same amount of time.). With 200,000 records in the table, in both databases, opening the table in datasheet view takes the same amount of time in either database. Thus, no performance decrease at all. Number 3. Well, I checked the size of both databases along the whole process. (I did put the lookup table in both databases, so they should have been the same 'size'). Guess what, they were. Started at 92,160 bytes (each) with no data other then the US States, and after 200,000 records, both databases were 5,869,568 bytes. I even manually added records (about a dozen), and both databases were still the same size (in bytes), though I didn't write those numbers down. However, and this is a BIG however. I found a distinct advantage to using a Lookup field. In the database with the Lookup field, I had set the Limit to List property to Yes. I then tweaked my code, and added "XX", instead of a random state, for 10 records. BOTH databases added 10 records with XX in it. Going to the Non-lookup database, I could still manually enter a record with XX as the State. Going to the Lookup database, I could NOT manually enter XX, because it wouldn't let me enter a state not on the list. Setting the field validation for <>"XX" in both tables, prevented the code from adding new records with that value. So that is a very interesting advantage. It allows you to enforce 'user' data entry 'rules', while allowing code inserted/modified data to bypass. That could be handy. One last note. The 'lookup' capability does NOT have to be a SQL statement. Combo boxes and listboxes can both use Callback functions. This DOES apply to Lookup fields. (did a test. Used a previously built Callback function that lists the reports in a db for list/combo box, and added it to a field's lookup property. sure enough, it listed the reports when entering that field.) Drew -- From cfoust at infostatsystems.com Thu Mar 25 15:29:15 2004 From: cfoust at infostatsystems.com (Charlotte Foust) Date: Thu, 25 Mar 2004 13:29:15 -0800 Subject: [AccessD] Lookup Fields in Table Design Message-ID: And did you try it using *forms*, Drew. That's what users tend to deal with, isn't it? And that's where my experience says they're a bad idea (well, users are often a bad idea, but I'm talking about lookups.) As far as your "advantage", I don't let my users come within a mile of my tables, so where is the advantage? They *can't* manually enter records, period. Charlotte Foust -----Original Message----- From: DWUTKA at marlow.com [mailto:DWUTKA at marlow.com] Sent: Thursday, March 25, 2004 1:10 PM To: AccessD at databaseadvisors.com Subject: [AccessD] Lookup Fields in Table Design Okay, the three reasons given so far for not using the Lookup feature in your table designs are: #1: Lazy developer tool, which can confuse users. #2: Performance Decrease. #3: Bloat Okay, for number one, I personally don't see a point in arguing against that, because it's too darn easy to confuse users. If we didn't use something that could confuse a user, we would have to kick our computers out the door! LOL (sorry, couldn't resist). Now for Number 2. Did a simple test. I created a database with a simple lookup table (with a list of states) and then added a table that had a 'State' field. Copied that database, and then added a lookup for the State field, using the tblStates table. Then I created a little code which added 200,000 records to tblCustomerInfo (my 'dummy' table). BOTH databases took about the same amount of time to enter records. (used an INSERT INTO statement.....that took a while, probably would have been faster to use the Add method of a recordset. Either way, both processes took about the same amount of time.). With 200,000 records in the table, in both databases, opening the table in datasheet view takes the same amount of time in either database. Thus, no performance decrease at all. Number 3. Well, I checked the size of both databases along the whole process. (I did put the lookup table in both databases, so they should have been the same 'size'). Guess what, they were. Started at 92,160 bytes (each) with no data other then the US States, and after 200,000 records, both databases were 5,869,568 bytes. I even manually added records (about a dozen), and both databases were still the same size (in bytes), though I didn't write those numbers down. However, and this is a BIG however. I found a distinct advantage to using a Lookup field. In the database with the Lookup field, I had set the Limit to List property to Yes. I then tweaked my code, and added "XX", instead of a random state, for 10 records. BOTH databases added 10 records with XX in it. Going to the Non-lookup database, I could still manually enter a record with XX as the State. Going to the Lookup database, I could NOT manually enter XX, because it wouldn't let me enter a state not on the list. Setting the field validation for <>"XX" in both tables, prevented the code from adding new records with that value. So that is a very interesting advantage. It allows you to enforce 'user' data entry 'rules', while allowing code inserted/modified data to bypass. That could be handy. One last note. The 'lookup' capability does NOT have to be a SQL statement. Combo boxes and listboxes can both use Callback functions. This DOES apply to Lookup fields. (did a test. Used a previously built Callback function that lists the reports in a db for list/combo box, and added it to a field's lookup property. sure enough, it listed the reports when entering that field.) Drew -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From cfoust at infostatsystems.com Thu Mar 25 15:31:59 2004 From: cfoust at infostatsystems.com (Charlotte Foust) Date: Thu, 25 Mar 2004 13:31:59 -0800 Subject: [AccessD] Lookup Fields in Table Design Message-ID: I think you added too soon. The discussion is far from over just because Drew weighed in on one side. Charlotte Foust -----Original Message----- From: John Bartow [mailto:john at winhaven.net] Sent: Thursday, March 25, 2004 1:20 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] Lookup Fields in Table Design Slam and dunk! 5 point sayers! Score: 2 nay-sayers / 7.5 sayers -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of DWUTKA at marlow.com Sent: Thursday, March 25, 2004 3:10 PM To: AccessD at databaseadvisors.com Subject: [AccessD] Lookup Fields in Table Design Okay, the three reasons given so far for not using the Lookup feature in your table designs are: #1: Lazy developer tool, which can confuse users. #2: Performance Decrease. #3: Bloat Okay, for number one, I personally don't see a point in arguing against that, because it's too darn easy to confuse users. If we didn't use something that could confuse a user, we would have to kick our computers out the door! LOL (sorry, couldn't resist). Now for Number 2. Did a simple test. I created a database with a simple lookup table (with a list of states) and then added a table that had a 'State' field. Copied that database, and then added a lookup for the State field, using the tblStates table. Then I created a little code which added 200,000 records to tblCustomerInfo (my 'dummy' table). BOTH databases took about the same amount of time to enter records. (used an INSERT INTO statement.....that took a while, probably would have been faster to use the Add method of a recordset. Either way, both processes took about the same amount of time.). With 200,000 records in the table, in both databases, opening the table in datasheet view takes the same amount of time in either database. Thus, no performance decrease at all. Number 3. Well, I checked the size of both databases along the whole process. (I did put the lookup table in both databases, so they should have been the same 'size'). Guess what, they were. Started at 92,160 bytes (each) with no data other then the US States, and after 200,000 records, both databases were 5,869,568 bytes. I even manually added records (about a dozen), and both databases were still the same size (in bytes), though I didn't write those numbers down. However, and this is a BIG however. I found a distinct advantage to using a Lookup field. In the database with the Lookup field, I had set the Limit to List property to Yes. I then tweaked my code, and added "XX", instead of a random state, for 10 records. BOTH databases added 10 records with XX in it. Going to the Non-lookup database, I could still manually enter a record with XX as the State. Going to the Lookup database, I could NOT manually enter XX, because it wouldn't let me enter a state not on the list. Setting the field validation for <>"XX" in both tables, prevented the code from adding new records with that value. So that is a very interesting advantage. It allows you to enforce 'user' data entry 'rules', while allowing code inserted/modified data to bypass. That could be handy. One last note. The 'lookup' capability does NOT have to be a SQL statement. Combo boxes and listboxes can both use Callback functions. This DOES apply to Lookup fields. (did a test. Used a previously built Callback function that lists the reports in a db for list/combo box, and added it to a field's lookup property. sure enough, it listed the reports when entering that field.) Drew -- -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From John.Clark at niagaracounty.com Thu Mar 25 15:40:40 2004 From: John.Clark at niagaracounty.com (John Clark) Date: Thu, 25 Mar 2004 16:40:40 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] I wrote a program, about a year ago, and it contains two unbound reports. Each of these reports has Message-ID: I wrote a program, about a year ago, and it contains two unbound reports. Each of these reports has 83 calculated (i.e. statistical) fields on them--they are actually pretty identical with exception that one is a quarterly and the other is a cumulative calculation. The calculations are mostly similar, for example: =DCount("[xAge]","qryOver60-Cumulative","[XAge] >= 60") =DCount("[xAge]","qryOver60-SC-Cumulative","[XAge] >= 60 And [fndCSE] = True And [logLowInc] = True") =DCount("[Legal]","qryPartIII-SC","[Legal] = True") The database (the main table anyhow) has just shy of 7000 records in it. And it seems like all of the sudden, it is taking quite a bit longer for the reports to come up and longer to print once they do. I went in to look at something else today and noticed this. I asked them, if it seemed slower--I thought maybe it was me--and they agreed. Did I do something wrong in setting this up? Should I have made 83 queries instead? Is it the DCount function (I remember hearing something on aggregate functions be slow once--maybe)? This is an A2K program--my first one (I only have about 10 or so A97s out there). There not complaining yet, but I might be, if I were them, so I would like to head it off, if I can. The state came in their office and they, "were very impressed with [the] program," which is another reason I'd like to keep on it--maybe they'd be interested further. Thanks for any advise you can give me! Gotta go to a meeting--see y'all! John W Clark From KIsmert at TexasSystems.com Thu Mar 25 15:53:49 2004 From: KIsmert at TexasSystems.com (Ken Ismert) Date: Thu, 25 Mar 2004 15:53:49 -0600 Subject: [AccessD] Framework Discussion - set up question In-Reply-To: <2F8793082E00D4119A1700B0D0216BF8022279B8@main2.marlow.com> Message-ID: <005301c412b3$a85168d0$2a3ca8c0@TEXASSYSTEMS.COM> Drew, >Lookups are just part of Access' table design, and are relatively >irrelevant when you use Access strictly as a BE. ... But is that >going to affect anything using that .mdb as a BE? No. Try this: 1. Create a blank database. Save it as Test.mdb. 2. Turn off Name Autocorrect (Tools, Options, General) 3. Import all tables from Northwind.mdb. Note that the Orders table has lookups defined for the CustomerID, EmployeeID, and ShipVia fields. 4. Rename the Customers, Employees and Shippers tables. Reopen Orders. You will now get intermittent errors saying the recordsource specified in the lookup doesn't exist. 5. Create a new blank database, and save it as TestLink.mdb. Link to the Orders table in Test.mdb. Open the linked orders table. You will also get the same intermittent errors, especially after re-opening TestLink. (My test platform is A2K.) When a linked table is queried in the front end, Access tries to open ALL the lookup queries associated with that table in the back end. Errors in those lookup queries will propagate to the front end. This can play havoc when trying to recover corrupted data. I personally experienced this when corrupted data in the lookup tables was preventing data in the main table from being read. Only after opening the table in design mode and removing the lookup queries were we able to get a partial recovery. In short, data is too important to risk with such an error-prone feature as table lookups. The performance degradation issues, while valid, are secondary. The same applies for subdatasheets. If you want to use lookups, make a query, and define them there. -Ken -----Original Message----- From: DWUTKA at marlow.com [mailto:DWUTKA at marlow.com] Sent: Thursday, March 25, 2004 1:59 PM To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: RE: [AccessD] Framework Discussion - set up question I don't get that 'main' argument. From DWUTKA at marlow.com Thu Mar 25 15:58:43 2004 From: DWUTKA at marlow.com (DWUTKA at marlow.com) Date: Thu, 25 Mar 2004 15:58:43 -0600 Subject: [AccessD] Framework Discussion - set up question Message-ID: <2F8793082E00D4119A1700B0D0216BF8022279BE@main2.marlow.com> Okay, for number one, let's drop that. It's a pointless argument. If you want to argue that using Lookups adds confusion, then I would REALLY hate to see your table designs. Have you ever tried to explain a many to many table to a 'user'? Trust me, they'll pick up what a 'lookup' field does a LOT faster. And if you aren't using things like many to many tables, because users could get confused, then you are not normalizing your data. See how this is a BAD argument to try to defend against? Now for number 2. You can't hack a feature with a 'feature creep' agrument. Feature creep can affect anything in a bad way, however, if you are getting paid by the hour, or are doing contract work, Feature creep means more money! LOL Drew -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Francisco H Tapia Sent: Thursday, March 25, 2004 3:19 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Framework Discussion - set up question DWUTKA at marlow.com said the following on 3/25/2004 11:53 AM: >What's impractical about Lookup stuff in a table design? > > 1) When you query the table you're querying against some text... instead of ID's... while there is no one right way.. you're adding confusion. 2) when you want to add additonal columns so that the sub table can have it's own set of attributes because the system has "grown" you'll need to revisit the table to make the changes for the FE, but if you're using some sort of BE/FE setup then you can't do anything until all the users are out :) -- -Francisco -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From ssharkins at bellsouth.net Thu Mar 25 16:16:24 2004 From: ssharkins at bellsouth.net (Susan Harkins) Date: Thu, 25 Mar 2004 17:16:24 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Framework Discussion - set up question In-Reply-To: <2F8793082E00D4119A1700B0D0216BF8022279BE@main2.marlow.com> Message-ID: <20040325221619.UXAT17649.imf25aec.mail.bellsouth.net@SUSANONE> I want to know why he's changing the table names? ;) Oh my gosh, what a horrible mess you might create all the way down the line -- not just with lookup fields. Susan H. Okay, for number one, let's drop that. It's a pointless argument. If you want to argue that using Lookups adds confusion, then I would REALLY hate to see your table designs. Have you ever tried to explain a many to many table to a 'user'? Trust me, they'll pick up what a 'lookup' field does a LOT faster. And if you aren't using things like many to many tables, because users could get confused, then you are not normalizing your data. See how this is a BAD argument to try to defend against? Now for number 2. You can't hack a feature with a 'feature creep' agrument. Feature creep can affect anything in a bad way, however, if you are getting paid by the hour, or are doing contract work, Feature creep means more money! LOL From ssharkins at bellsouth.net Thu Mar 25 16:18:23 2004 From: ssharkins at bellsouth.net (Susan Harkins) Date: Thu, 25 Mar 2004 17:18:23 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Lookup Fields in Table Design In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <20040325221817.UYIM17649.imf25aec.mail.bellsouth.net@SUSANONE> Lookup fields are bad in forms? That's why they exist -- the controls automatically inherit the lookup properties. I don't think lookup fields were ever meant to be a table benefit -- but rather an inherited trait for controls. At least, that's always been my take on them. Susan H. And did you try it using *forms*, Drew. That's what users tend to deal with, isn't it? And that's where my experience says they're a bad idea (well, users are often a bad idea, but I'm talking about lookups.) As far as your "advantage", I don't let my users come within a mile of my tables, so where is the advantage? They *can't* manually enter records, period. From DWUTKA at marlow.com Thu Mar 25 16:21:17 2004 From: DWUTKA at marlow.com (DWUTKA at marlow.com) Date: Thu, 25 Mar 2004 16:21:17 -0600 Subject: [AccessD] Lookup Fields in Table Design Message-ID: <2F8793082E00D4119A1700B0D0216BF8022279BF@main2.marlow.com> What's the difference? The Lookup field has NO effect on a Form, other then initial design. When you design a form, using the Wizards or the Field chooser, it will use the Lookup information to determine what kind of default control to use. However, you can certainly use a regular textbox, and bind that to the lookup field, and you just don't have any 'lookup' capabilities. (Including the Limit To list). Be my guest, AutoForm a table with a lookup field that is set to Limit to List. Try to enter 'unlisted' data in that field. Can't. Go into the design of the form. Switch the combo/list box to a textbox. Try to enter 'unlisted' data (which isn't listed anymore...). Sure can. So what's your point? All that the Lookup field is doing, is providing easy data entry from a datasheet view (which is a view of forms too), and a reference for automatic/wizard stuff in Access. No effect at all. Show me a performance decrease. It's easy to SAY it decreases performance. But I haven't seen any yet. I created a continous form on that table with 200,000 records. It opened in a split second, and I could skim through all of the records with ease. No different then the 'copy' database without the Lookup. Jet isn't going to run 200,000 querries on a field, if you have Lookup set! It is going to run it once, and only once, when you ENTER that field. Are you saying that using a combo box that querries something is a performance decrease? I feel sorry for your users! Charlotte, this is starting to look more like a developer's hoax. No performance issue, no bloat. I can't argue if you PREFER not to use something, however, there has yet to be anything brought up (which has been proven true), as far as a downside to lookups. Also, how do you prevent your users from coming within a mile of your tables? If they have access to the data within your table, all they have to do, is open a blank database, link your tables to the blank database, and they now have direct access to your tables. They can do anything they could do in your forms. Now, granted, someone confused by a lookup field in datasheet view may not be able to figure out how to link tables, but then again, I use Access as a BE, and even in BACK ENDS I have used Lookup fields. Want to know why? Because I normalize my data structure. However, if I want to go into the tables, and manually mess with the data, I'd be a GOD if I could remember what every User/Product/Request/Customer/Any other IDed field's ID was. So, if I go into a Many to Many table, and want to look for a possible 'issue', either I have to build a query, to look at the relavent fields (which mean more then just the ID's), OR, if the table design used lookups, I can see what I need right then and there! Drew -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Charlotte Foust Sent: Thursday, March 25, 2004 3:29 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] Lookup Fields in Table Design And did you try it using *forms*, Drew. That's what users tend to deal with, isn't it? And that's where my experience says they're a bad idea (well, users are often a bad idea, but I'm talking about lookups.) As far as your "advantage", I don't let my users come within a mile of my tables, so where is the advantage? They *can't* manually enter records, period. Charlotte Foust -----Original Message----- From: DWUTKA at marlow.com [mailto:DWUTKA at marlow.com] Sent: Thursday, March 25, 2004 1:10 PM To: AccessD at databaseadvisors.com Subject: [AccessD] Lookup Fields in Table Design Okay, the three reasons given so far for not using the Lookup feature in your table designs are: #1: Lazy developer tool, which can confuse users. #2: Performance Decrease. #3: Bloat Okay, for number one, I personally don't see a point in arguing against that, because it's too darn easy to confuse users. If we didn't use something that could confuse a user, we would have to kick our computers out the door! LOL (sorry, couldn't resist). Now for Number 2. Did a simple test. I created a database with a simple lookup table (with a list of states) and then added a table that had a 'State' field. Copied that database, and then added a lookup for the State field, using the tblStates table. Then I created a little code which added 200,000 records to tblCustomerInfo (my 'dummy' table). BOTH databases took about the same amount of time to enter records. (used an INSERT INTO statement.....that took a while, probably would have been faster to use the Add method of a recordset. Either way, both processes took about the same amount of time.). With 200,000 records in the table, in both databases, opening the table in datasheet view takes the same amount of time in either database. Thus, no performance decrease at all. Number 3. Well, I checked the size of both databases along the whole process. (I did put the lookup table in both databases, so they should have been the same 'size'). Guess what, they were. Started at 92,160 bytes (each) with no data other then the US States, and after 200,000 records, both databases were 5,869,568 bytes. I even manually added records (about a dozen), and both databases were still the same size (in bytes), though I didn't write those numbers down. However, and this is a BIG however. I found a distinct advantage to using a Lookup field. In the database with the Lookup field, I had set the Limit to List property to Yes. I then tweaked my code, and added "XX", instead of a random state, for 10 records. BOTH databases added 10 records with XX in it. Going to the Non-lookup database, I could still manually enter a record with XX as the State. Going to the Lookup database, I could NOT manually enter XX, because it wouldn't let me enter a state not on the list. Setting the field validation for <>"XX" in both tables, prevented the code from adding new records with that value. So that is a very interesting advantage. It allows you to enforce 'user' data entry 'rules', while allowing code inserted/modified data to bypass. That could be handy. One last note. The 'lookup' capability does NOT have to be a SQL statement. Combo boxes and listboxes can both use Callback functions. This DOES apply to Lookup fields. (did a test. Used a previously built Callback function that lists the reports in a db for list/combo box, and added it to a field's lookup property. sure enough, it listed the reports when entering that field.) Drew -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From DWUTKA at marlow.com Thu Mar 25 16:21:45 2004 From: DWUTKA at marlow.com (DWUTKA at marlow.com) Date: Thu, 25 Mar 2004 16:21:45 -0600 Subject: [AccessD] Lookup Fields in Table Design Message-ID: <2F8793082E00D4119A1700B0D0216BF8022279C0@main2.marlow.com> My reputation must proceed me! ROTFLMAO! Drew -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Charlotte Foust Sent: Thursday, March 25, 2004 3:32 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] Lookup Fields in Table Design I think you added too soon. The discussion is far from over just because Drew weighed in on one side. Charlotte Foust -----Original Message----- From: John Bartow [mailto:john at winhaven.net] Sent: Thursday, March 25, 2004 1:20 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] Lookup Fields in Table Design Slam and dunk! 5 point sayers! Score: 2 nay-sayers / 7.5 sayers -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of DWUTKA at marlow.com Sent: Thursday, March 25, 2004 3:10 PM To: AccessD at databaseadvisors.com Subject: [AccessD] Lookup Fields in Table Design Okay, the three reasons given so far for not using the Lookup feature in your table designs are: #1: Lazy developer tool, which can confuse users. #2: Performance Decrease. #3: Bloat Okay, for number one, I personally don't see a point in arguing against that, because it's too darn easy to confuse users. If we didn't use something that could confuse a user, we would have to kick our computers out the door! LOL (sorry, couldn't resist). Now for Number 2. Did a simple test. I created a database with a simple lookup table (with a list of states) and then added a table that had a 'State' field. Copied that database, and then added a lookup for the State field, using the tblStates table. Then I created a little code which added 200,000 records to tblCustomerInfo (my 'dummy' table). BOTH databases took about the same amount of time to enter records. (used an INSERT INTO statement.....that took a while, probably would have been faster to use the Add method of a recordset. Either way, both processes took about the same amount of time.). With 200,000 records in the table, in both databases, opening the table in datasheet view takes the same amount of time in either database. Thus, no performance decrease at all. Number 3. Well, I checked the size of both databases along the whole process. (I did put the lookup table in both databases, so they should have been the same 'size'). Guess what, they were. Started at 92,160 bytes (each) with no data other then the US States, and after 200,000 records, both databases were 5,869,568 bytes. I even manually added records (about a dozen), and both databases were still the same size (in bytes), though I didn't write those numbers down. However, and this is a BIG however. I found a distinct advantage to using a Lookup field. In the database with the Lookup field, I had set the Limit to List property to Yes. I then tweaked my code, and added "XX", instead of a random state, for 10 records. BOTH databases added 10 records with XX in it. Going to the Non-lookup database, I could still manually enter a record with XX as the State. Going to the Lookup database, I could NOT manually enter XX, because it wouldn't let me enter a state not on the list. Setting the field validation for <>"XX" in both tables, prevented the code from adding new records with that value. So that is a very interesting advantage. It allows you to enforce 'user' data entry 'rules', while allowing code inserted/modified data to bypass. That could be handy. One last note. The 'lookup' capability does NOT have to be a SQL statement. Combo boxes and listboxes can both use Callback functions. This DOES apply to Lookup fields. (did a test. Used a previously built Callback function that lists the reports in a db for list/combo box, and added it to a field's lookup property. sure enough, it listed the reports when entering that field.) Drew -- -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From DWUTKA at marlow.com Thu Mar 25 16:25:05 2004 From: DWUTKA at marlow.com (DWUTKA at marlow.com) Date: Thu, 25 Mar 2004 16:25:05 -0600 Subject: [AccessD] I wrote a program, about a year ago, and it contain s two unbound reports. Each of these reports has Message-ID: <2F8793082E00D4119A1700B0D0216BF8022279C1@main2.marlow.com> A couple of things. First, make sure you are indexing the age field. (That way, it just has to count the indexes that are over sixty....it's faster....). Next, make sure the database is compacted (which re-indexes everything). Finally, are you constantly using DCount over and over, or are you just doing it twice? If you are running it over and over, I would just pull the value you want, and store it in a variable, OR, if you are pulling up a 'list' of values, pull it as a recordset, with a query, and run through the recordset. Drew -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of John Clark Sent: Thursday, March 25, 2004 3:41 PM To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: [AccessD] I wrote a program, about a year ago, and it contains two unbound reports. Each of these reports has I wrote a program, about a year ago, and it contains two unbound reports. Each of these reports has 83 calculated (i.e. statistical) fields on them--they are actually pretty identical with exception that one is a quarterly and the other is a cumulative calculation. The calculations are mostly similar, for example: =DCount("[xAge]","qryOver60-Cumulative","[XAge] >= 60") =DCount("[xAge]","qryOver60-SC-Cumulative","[XAge] >= 60 And [fndCSE] = True And [logLowInc] = True") =DCount("[Legal]","qryPartIII-SC","[Legal] = True") The database (the main table anyhow) has just shy of 7000 records in it. And it seems like all of the sudden, it is taking quite a bit longer for the reports to come up and longer to print once they do. I went in to look at something else today and noticed this. I asked them, if it seemed slower--I thought maybe it was me--and they agreed. Did I do something wrong in setting this up? Should I have made 83 queries instead? Is it the DCount function (I remember hearing something on aggregate functions be slow once--maybe)? This is an A2K program--my first one (I only have about 10 or so A97s out there). There not complaining yet, but I might be, if I were them, so I would like to head it off, if I can. The state came in their office and they, "were very impressed with [the] program," which is another reason I'd like to keep on it--maybe they'd be interested further. Thanks for any advise you can give me! Gotta go to a meeting--see y'all! John W Clark -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From DWUTKA at marlow.com Thu Mar 25 16:37:09 2004 From: DWUTKA at marlow.com (DWUTKA at marlow.com) Date: Thu, 25 Mar 2004 16:37:09 -0600 Subject: [AccessD] Framework Discussion - set up question Message-ID: <2F8793082E00D4119A1700B0D0216BF8022279C2@main2.marlow.com> Two things. No need to do what you described. Already knew that. First thing. AND? If you could LINK the tables in a corrupted database, you could have also used DAO/ADO to just pull the data. Both of which would have completely ignored the Lookup information. OR, you could have just made dummy tables to represent the lookup tables. Lookup doesn't care if the old data is there or not, and it will look for a local table, whether it's linked, or it's native. It also doesn't perform data integrity checks. It doesn't care if old data fits the lookup stuff or not! Now, if you said that Lookups can cause corruption, completely different story. There are a lot of things that can make recovery difficult, that doesn't mean that you shouldn't use code, ban multiple users from your database, or prevent referential integrity! Second, still have yet to see proof of performance degradation. Show me proof of that before the 'no lookup' side brings it up again! Drew -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Ken Ismert Sent: Thursday, March 25, 2004 3:54 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: [AccessD] Framework Discussion - set up question Drew, >Lookups are just part of Access' table design, and are relatively >irrelevant when you use Access strictly as a BE. ... But is that >going to affect anything using that .mdb as a BE? No. Try this: 1. Create a blank database. Save it as Test.mdb. 2. Turn off Name Autocorrect (Tools, Options, General) 3. Import all tables from Northwind.mdb. Note that the Orders table has lookups defined for the CustomerID, EmployeeID, and ShipVia fields. 4. Rename the Customers, Employees and Shippers tables. Reopen Orders. You will now get intermittent errors saying the recordsource specified in the lookup doesn't exist. 5. Create a new blank database, and save it as TestLink.mdb. Link to the Orders table in Test.mdb. Open the linked orders table. You will also get the same intermittent errors, especially after re-opening TestLink. (My test platform is A2K.) When a linked table is queried in the front end, Access tries to open ALL the lookup queries associated with that table in the back end. Errors in those lookup queries will propagate to the front end. This can play havoc when trying to recover corrupted data. I personally experienced this when corrupted data in the lookup tables was preventing data in the main table from being read. Only after opening the table in design mode and removing the lookup queries were we able to get a partial recovery. In short, data is too important to risk with such an error-prone feature as table lookups. The performance degradation issues, while valid, are secondary. The same applies for subdatasheets. If you want to use lookups, make a query, and define them there. -Ken -----Original Message----- From: DWUTKA at marlow.com [mailto:DWUTKA at marlow.com] Sent: Thursday, March 25, 2004 1:59 PM To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: RE: [AccessD] Framework Discussion - set up question I don't get that 'main' argument. -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From DWUTKA at marlow.com Thu Mar 25 16:38:49 2004 From: DWUTKA at marlow.com (DWUTKA at marlow.com) Date: Thu, 25 Mar 2004 16:38:49 -0600 Subject: [AccessD] Framework Discussion - set up question Message-ID: <2F8793082E00D4119A1700B0D0216BF8022279C3@main2.marlow.com> We're gonna need a BIG bag of marshmallows! Their side is just burning up. Haven't actually added a valid/proven argument yet! LOL Drew -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Susan Harkins Sent: Thursday, March 25, 2004 4:16 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: [AccessD] Framework Discussion - set up question I want to know why he's changing the table names? ;) Oh my gosh, what a horrible mess you might create all the way down the line -- not just with lookup fields. Susan H. Okay, for number one, let's drop that. It's a pointless argument. If you want to argue that using Lookups adds confusion, then I would REALLY hate to see your table designs. Have you ever tried to explain a many to many table to a 'user'? Trust me, they'll pick up what a 'lookup' field does a LOT faster. And if you aren't using things like many to many tables, because users could get confused, then you are not normalizing your data. See how this is a BAD argument to try to defend against? Now for number 2. You can't hack a feature with a 'feature creep' agrument. Feature creep can affect anything in a bad way, however, if you are getting paid by the hour, or are doing contract work, Feature creep means more money! LOL -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From DWUTKA at marlow.com Thu Mar 25 16:39:59 2004 From: DWUTKA at marlow.com (DWUTKA at marlow.com) Date: Thu, 25 Mar 2004 16:39:59 -0600 Subject: [AccessD] Lookup Fields in Table Design Message-ID: <2F8793082E00D4119A1700B0D0216BF8022279C4@main2.marlow.com> Exactly. The advantages of them in table datasheet views is just a perk. I've always viewed them as a way of saving time when building my forms too! Drew -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Susan Harkins Sent: Thursday, March 25, 2004 4:18 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: [AccessD] Lookup Fields in Table Design Lookup fields are bad in forms? That's why they exist -- the controls automatically inherit the lookup properties. I don't think lookup fields were ever meant to be a table benefit -- but rather an inherited trait for controls. At least, that's always been my take on them. Susan H. And did you try it using *forms*, Drew. That's what users tend to deal with, isn't it? And that's where my experience says they're a bad idea (well, users are often a bad idea, but I'm talking about lookups.) As far as your "advantage", I don't let my users come within a mile of my tables, so where is the advantage? They *can't* manually enter records, period. -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From DWUTKA at marlow.com Thu Mar 25 16:42:58 2004 From: DWUTKA at marlow.com (DWUTKA at marlow.com) Date: Thu, 25 Mar 2004 16:42:58 -0600 Subject: Lookup fields WAS: RE: [AccessD] Framework Discussion - set up qu estion Message-ID: <2F8793082E00D4119A1700B0D0216BF8022279C5@main2.marlow.com> You know Susan, the Bounders had MUCH better arguments, and they could defend most of them too. Oh, I miss the good ol' days. Drew -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Susan Harkins Sent: Thursday, March 25, 2004 4:16 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: [AccessD] Framework Discussion - set up question I want to know why he's changing the table names? ;) Oh my gosh, what a horrible mess you might create all the way down the line -- not just with lookup fields. Susan H. Okay, for number one, let's drop that. It's a pointless argument. If you want to argue that using Lookups adds confusion, then I would REALLY hate to see your table designs. Have you ever tried to explain a many to many table to a 'user'? Trust me, they'll pick up what a 'lookup' field does a LOT faster. And if you aren't using things like many to many tables, because users could get confused, then you are not normalizing your data. See how this is a BAD argument to try to defend against? Now for number 2. You can't hack a feature with a 'feature creep' agrument. Feature creep can affect anything in a bad way, however, if you are getting paid by the hour, or are doing contract work, Feature creep means more money! LOL -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com Thu Mar 25 16:57:01 2004 From: jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com (John W. Colby) Date: Thu, 25 Mar 2004 17:57:01 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Framework Discussion - set up question In-Reply-To: <2F8793082E00D4119A1700B0D0216BF8022279C3@main2.marlow.com> Message-ID: Could we change the subject on this? I have a filter that pulls "framework" int a directory and I now have about 100 non-framework messages in there. Thanks, JWC -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of DWUTKA at marlow.com Sent: Thursday, March 25, 2004 5:39 PM To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: RE: [AccessD] Framework Discussion - set up question We're gonna need a BIG bag of marshmallows! Their side is just burning up. Haven't actually added a valid/proven argument yet! LOL Drew -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Susan Harkins Sent: Thursday, March 25, 2004 4:16 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: [AccessD] Framework Discussion - set up question I want to know why he's changing the table names? ;) Oh my gosh, what a horrible mess you might create all the way down the line -- not just with lookup fields. Susan H. Okay, for number one, let's drop that. It's a pointless argument. If you want to argue that using Lookups adds confusion, then I would REALLY hate to see your table designs. Have you ever tried to explain a many to many table to a 'user'? Trust me, they'll pick up what a 'lookup' field does a LOT faster. And if you aren't using things like many to many tables, because users could get confused, then you are not normalizing your data. See how this is a BAD argument to try to defend against? Now for number 2. You can't hack a feature with a 'feature creep' agrument. Feature creep can affect anything in a bad way, however, if you are getting paid by the hour, or are doing contract work, Feature creep means more money! LOL -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From my.lists at verizon.net Thu Mar 25 16:59:55 2004 From: my.lists at verizon.net (Francisco H Tapia) Date: Thu, 25 Mar 2004 14:59:55 -0800 Subject: [AccessD] Lookup Fields in Table Design In-Reply-To: <2F8793082E00D4119A1700B0D0216BF8022279BF@main2.marlow.com> References: <2F8793082E00D4119A1700B0D0216BF8022279BF@main2.marlow.com> Message-ID: <4063646B.6020007@verizon.net> DWUTKA at marlow.com said the following on 3/25/2004 2:21 PM: >So what's your point? All that the Lookup field is doing, is providing easy >data entry from a datasheet view (which is a view of forms too), and a >reference for automatic/wizard stuff in Access. No effect at all. > > So where's the advantage of using the lookup? If anything if I'm customizing the lookup by form, I need to be in the datasource of the combobox anyways. >Show me a performance decrease. It's easy to SAY it decreases performance. > Joining a table adds a layer of complexity to all queries, simple joins make nearly no performance decrease, but when you begin joining tables over tables and you have a lookup associated to a table lets say... about 4 to 5 queries deep.. .well I would venture to say that it has a good possibility to add some performance issues. In a field that takes only 1-5 rows this may not be a problem but what about situations where you have litterally thousands of rows for the lookup... now you've inner joined 2 tables w/o needing to. (depending on your needs of course) a join between 200,000 may not be much, but what about situations where the total rows joined exceeds 1mill.? -- -Francisco From jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com Thu Mar 25 17:01:03 2004 From: jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com (John W. Colby) Date: Thu, 25 Mar 2004 18:01:03 -0500 Subject: Lookup fields WAS: RE: [AccessD] Framework Discussion - set up question In-Reply-To: <2F8793082E00D4119A1700B0D0216BF8022279C5@main2.marlow.com> Message-ID: That's because I have been staying out of it. JWC -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of DWUTKA at marlow.com Sent: Thursday, March 25, 2004 5:43 PM To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: Lookup fields WAS: RE: [AccessD] Framework Discussion - set up question You know Susan, the Bounders had MUCH better arguments, and they could defend most of them too. Oh, I miss the good ol' days. Drew -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Susan Harkins Sent: Thursday, March 25, 2004 4:16 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: [AccessD] Framework Discussion - set up question I want to know why he's changing the table names? ;) Oh my gosh, what a horrible mess you might create all the way down the line -- not just with lookup fields. Susan H. Okay, for number one, let's drop that. It's a pointless argument. If you want to argue that using Lookups adds confusion, then I would REALLY hate to see your table designs. Have you ever tried to explain a many to many table to a 'user'? Trust me, they'll pick up what a 'lookup' field does a LOT faster. And if you aren't using things like many to many tables, because users could get confused, then you are not normalizing your data. See how this is a BAD argument to try to defend against? Now for number 2. You can't hack a feature with a 'feature creep' agrument. Feature creep can affect anything in a bad way, however, if you are getting paid by the hour, or are doing contract work, Feature creep means more money! LOL -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From DWUTKA at marlow.com Thu Mar 25 17:09:58 2004 From: DWUTKA at marlow.com (DWUTKA at marlow.com) Date: Thu, 25 Mar 2004 17:09:58 -0600 Subject: [AccessD] Lookup Thread: WAS: Fr@mework Discussion - set up question Message-ID: <2F8793082E00D4119A1700B0D0216BF8022279C6@main2.marlow.com> Sorry about that. I changed a few of them. There are a few 'threads' on this now. (put the at symbol in there. Hopefully that will fool the filter.) Drew -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of John W. Colby Sent: Thursday, March 25, 2004 4:57 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] Framework Discussion - set up question Could we change the subject on this? I have a filter that pulls "framework" int a directory and I now have about 100 non-framework messages in there. Thanks, JWC -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of DWUTKA at marlow.com Sent: Thursday, March 25, 2004 5:39 PM To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: RE: [AccessD] Framework Discussion - set up question We're gonna need a BIG bag of marshmallows! Their side is just burning up. Haven't actually added a valid/proven argument yet! LOL Drew -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Susan Harkins Sent: Thursday, March 25, 2004 4:16 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: [AccessD] Framework Discussion - set up question I want to know why he's changing the table names? ;) Oh my gosh, what a horrible mess you might create all the way down the line -- not just with lookup fields. Susan H. Okay, for number one, let's drop that. It's a pointless argument. If you want to argue that using Lookups adds confusion, then I would REALLY hate to see your table designs. Have you ever tried to explain a many to many table to a 'user'? Trust me, they'll pick up what a 'lookup' field does a LOT faster. And if you aren't using things like many to many tables, because users could get confused, then you are not normalizing your data. See how this is a BAD argument to try to defend against? Now for number 2. You can't hack a feature with a 'feature creep' agrument. Feature creep can affect anything in a bad way, however, if you are getting paid by the hour, or are doing contract work, Feature creep means more money! LOL -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From KIsmert at TexasSystems.com Thu Mar 25 17:11:52 2004 From: KIsmert at TexasSystems.com (Ken Ismert) Date: Thu, 25 Mar 2004 17:11:52 -0600 Subject: [AccessD] Framework Discussion - set up question In-Reply-To: <20040325221619.UXAT17649.imf25aec.mail.bellsouth.net@SUSANONE> Message-ID: <006d01c412be$8fb7f360$2a3ca8c0@TEXASSYSTEMS.COM> Which 'he' are you referring to? -Ken -----Original Message----- From: Susan Harkins [mailto:ssharkins at bellsouth.net] Sent: Thursday, March 25, 2004 4:16 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: [AccessD] Framework Discussion - set up question I want to know why he's changing the table names? ;) Oh my gosh, what a horrible mess you might create all the way down the line -- not just with lookup fields. Susan H. Okay, for number one, let's drop that. It's a pointless argument. If you want to argue that using Lookups adds confusion, then I would REALLY hate to see your table designs. Have you ever tried to explain a many to many table to a 'user'? Trust me, they'll pick up what a 'lookup' field does a LOT faster. And if you aren't using things like many to many tables, because users could get confused, then you are not normalizing your data. See how this is a BAD argument to try to defend against? Now for number 2. You can't hack a feature with a 'feature creep' agrument. Feature creep can affect anything in a bad way, however, if you are getting paid by the hour, or are doing contract work, Feature creep means more money! LOL From jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com Thu Mar 25 17:16:12 2004 From: jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com (John W. Colby) Date: Thu, 25 Mar 2004 18:16:12 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Lookup Fields in Table Design In-Reply-To: <20040325221817.UYIM17649.imf25aec.mail.bellsouth.net@SUSANONE> Message-ID: mine too -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Susan Harkins Sent: Thursday, March 25, 2004 5:18 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: [AccessD] Lookup Fields in Table Design Lookup fields are bad in forms? That's why they exist -- the controls automatically inherit the lookup properties. I don't think lookup fields were ever meant to be a table benefit -- but rather an inherited trait for controls. At least, that's always been my take on them. Susan H. And did you try it using *forms*, Drew. That's what users tend to deal with, isn't it? And that's where my experience says they're a bad idea (well, users are often a bad idea, but I'm talking about lookups.) As far as your "advantage", I don't let my users come within a mile of my tables, so where is the advantage? They *can't* manually enter records, period. -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From cfoust at infostatsystems.com Thu Mar 25 17:21:24 2004 From: cfoust at infostatsystems.com (Charlotte Foust) Date: Thu, 25 Mar 2004 15:21:24 -0800 Subject: [AccessD] Framework Discussion - set up question Message-ID: Hah! You guys would refuse to acknowledge valid arguments on the other side, regardless, because it doesn't agree with your predelictions! Charlotte Foust -----Original Message----- From: DWUTKA at marlow.com [mailto:DWUTKA at marlow.com] Sent: Thursday, March 25, 2004 2:39 PM To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: RE: [AccessD] Framework Discussion - set up question We're gonna need a BIG bag of marshmallows! Their side is just burning up. Haven't actually added a valid/proven argument yet! LOL Drew -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Susan Harkins Sent: Thursday, March 25, 2004 4:16 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: [AccessD] Framework Discussion - set up question I want to know why he's changing the table names? ;) Oh my gosh, what a horrible mess you might create all the way down the line -- not just with lookup fields. Susan H. Okay, for number one, let's drop that. It's a pointless argument. If you want to argue that using Lookups adds confusion, then I would REALLY hate to see your table designs. Have you ever tried to explain a many to many table to a 'user'? Trust me, they'll pick up what a 'lookup' field does a LOT faster. And if you aren't using things like many to many tables, because users could get confused, then you are not normalizing your data. See how this is a BAD argument to try to defend against? Now for number 2. You can't hack a feature with a 'feature creep' agrument. Feature creep can affect anything in a bad way, however, if you are getting paid by the hour, or are doing contract work, Feature creep means more money! LOL -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From ssharkins at bellsouth.net Thu Mar 25 17:45:11 2004 From: ssharkins at bellsouth.net (Susan Harkins) Date: Thu, 25 Mar 2004 18:45:11 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Framework Discussion - set up question In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <20040325234506.ZPPF1715.imf16aec.mail.bellsouth.net@SUSANONE> I have predelictions? I better go to the doctor... :) Susan H. Hah! You guys would refuse to acknowledge valid arguments on the other side, regardless, because it doesn't agree with your predelictions! From ssharkins at bellsouth.net Thu Mar 25 17:46:26 2004 From: ssharkins at bellsouth.net (Susan Harkins) Date: Thu, 25 Mar 2004 18:46:26 -0500 Subject: Lookup fields WAS: RE: [AccessD] Framework Discussion - set up question In-Reply-To: <2F8793082E00D4119A1700B0D0216BF8022279C5@main2.marlow.com> Message-ID: <20040325234624.ZQCI1715.imf16aec.mail.bellsouth.net@SUSANONE> Hey, I just start em... ;) Susan H. You know Susan, the Bounders had MUCH better arguments, and they could defend most of them too. Oh, I miss the good ol' days. From john at winhaven.net Thu Mar 25 18:01:49 2004 From: john at winhaven.net (John Bartow) Date: Thu, 25 Mar 2004 18:01:49 -0600 Subject: [AccessD] Framework Discussion - set up question In-Reply-To: <40634CAD.9070000@verizon.net> Message-ID: 1. First off I only would use this with related fields so the lookup (combo) would always be based on a query with the key field hidden. CMIIW but lookup properties don't change the query speed unless you weren't planning on displaying the intelligible data in the first place. The query is based on the table's data, ie. the key, it just display the text data as if you add that field to the query - which would normally be done anyway. Who queries to display the keyID field (unless its a subquery)? 2. I agree, this can be an issue. score: nay-sayers 2 / sayers 7.5 DWUTKA at marlow.com said the following on 3/25/2004 11:53 AM: >What's impractical about Lookup stuff in a table design? > > 1) When you query the table you're querying against some text... instead of ID's... while there is no one right way.. you're adding confusion. 2) when you want to add additonal columns so that the sub table can have it's own set of attributes because the system has "grown" you'll need to revisit the table to make the changes for the FE, but if you're using some sort of BE/FE setup then you can't do anything until all the users are out :) -- -Francisco From DWUTKA at marlow.com Thu Mar 25 18:06:01 2004 From: DWUTKA at marlow.com (DWUTKA at marlow.com) Date: Thu, 25 Mar 2004 18:06:01 -0600 Subject: [AccessD] Lookup Fields in Table Design Message-ID: <2F8793082E00D4119A1700B0D0216BF8022279C7@main2.marlow.com> HUH? I've already listed many advantages to using a Lookup definition in a table's field. I'm not going to go over them again. Just read the last several posts. Next, saying there is a performance decrease, and SHOWING there is a performance decrease, are two totally separate things. I saw NO difference with 200,000 records. Over a million records? sure. 0*5....is....oh shoot, I used to know my math....oh ya ZERO! Now granted, if I saw no difference with 5 records, there could be a fudge factor in there. But I didn't see a difference with 200,000 records. NONE. Why wasn't there a difference? Simple, BECAUSE IT'S NOT A JOIN, IT'S NOT A LINK, IT'S A LOOKUP!!!! That means, that it is ONLY looking up the Rowsource (unless you use a callback, then it's The rowsource TYPE), when a particular field is entered. When you pull up a billion zillion records, it isn't running the lookup 'query' a billion zillion times!!!! It doesn't do that with a combo box, on a continuous form, does it? Nope, it doesn't do it with lookups either. Okay, you REALLY want to proof yourself wrong? Here's a challenge. Build a local Access table, and put a lookup field, that references your SQL server. Watch your SQL server transaction/processes. Do you see it pegging? No, because it doesn't query it for every record. It hits the lookup table to make sure it's there, and that's it! You can't PUT a Join into a Lookup field! (Yes, you can use a join in an SQL table, but you can't refer to a field in a particular record, within the Lookup field (ie, base a list of something off of a specific field within the table.).). Drew -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Francisco H Tapia Sent: Thursday, March 25, 2004 5:00 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Lookup Fields in Table Design DWUTKA at marlow.com said the following on 3/25/2004 2:21 PM: >So what's your point? All that the Lookup field is doing, is providing easy >data entry from a datasheet view (which is a view of forms too), and a >reference for automatic/wizard stuff in Access. No effect at all. > > So where's the advantage of using the lookup? If anything if I'm customizing the lookup by form, I need to be in the datasource of the combobox anyways. >Show me a performance decrease. It's easy to SAY it decreases performance. > Joining a table adds a layer of complexity to all queries, simple joins make nearly no performance decrease, but when you begin joining tables over tables and you have a lookup associated to a table lets say... about 4 to 5 queries deep.. .well I would venture to say that it has a good possibility to add some performance issues. In a field that takes only 1-5 rows this may not be a problem but what about situations where you have litterally thousands of rows for the lookup... now you've inner joined 2 tables w/o needing to. (depending on your needs of course) a join between 200,000 may not be much, but what about situations where the total rows joined exceeds 1mill.? -- -Francisco -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From DWUTKA at marlow.com Thu Mar 25 18:06:19 2004 From: DWUTKA at marlow.com (DWUTKA at marlow.com) Date: Thu, 25 Mar 2004 18:06:19 -0600 Subject: Lookup fields WAS: RE: [AccessD] Framework Discussion - set u p question Message-ID: <2F8793082E00D4119A1700B0D0216BF8022279C8@main2.marlow.com> And where would your comment lie? Drew -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of John W. Colby Sent: Thursday, March 25, 2004 5:01 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: Lookup fields WAS: RE: [AccessD] Framework Discussion - set up question That's because I have been staying out of it. JWC -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of DWUTKA at marlow.com Sent: Thursday, March 25, 2004 5:43 PM To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: Lookup fields WAS: RE: [AccessD] Framework Discussion - set up question You know Susan, the Bounders had MUCH better arguments, and they could defend most of them too. Oh, I miss the good ol' days. Drew -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Susan Harkins Sent: Thursday, March 25, 2004 4:16 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: [AccessD] Framework Discussion - set up question I want to know why he's changing the table names? ;) Oh my gosh, what a horrible mess you might create all the way down the line -- not just with lookup fields. Susan H. Okay, for number one, let's drop that. It's a pointless argument. If you want to argue that using Lookups adds confusion, then I would REALLY hate to see your table designs. Have you ever tried to explain a many to many table to a 'user'? Trust me, they'll pick up what a 'lookup' field does a LOT faster. And if you aren't using things like many to many tables, because users could get confused, then you are not normalizing your data. See how this is a BAD argument to try to defend against? Now for number 2. You can't hack a feature with a 'feature creep' agrument. Feature creep can affect anything in a bad way, however, if you are getting paid by the hour, or are doing contract work, Feature creep means more money! LOL -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From john at winhaven.net Thu Mar 25 18:11:13 2004 From: john at winhaven.net (John Bartow) Date: Thu, 25 Mar 2004 18:11:13 -0600 Subject: [AccessD] Lookup Fields in Table Design In-Reply-To: Message-ID: whistles blow! penalty! unnecessary roughness! -.5 score: nay-sayers 1.5 / sayers 7.5 PS: what the hell is a sayer? -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Charlotte Foust Sent: Thursday, March 25, 2004 3:32 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] Lookup Fields in Table Design I think you added too soon. The discussion is far from over just because Drew weighed in on one side. Charlotte Foust From john at winhaven.net Thu Mar 25 18:11:13 2004 From: john at winhaven.net (John Bartow) Date: Thu, 25 Mar 2004 18:11:13 -0600 Subject: [AccessD] Framework Discussion - set up question In-Reply-To: <20040325221619.UXAT17649.imf25aec.mail.bellsouth.net@SUSANONE> Message-ID: s'mores anyone? ;o) -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Susan Harkins Sent: Thursday, March 25, 2004 4:16 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: [AccessD] Framework Discussion - set up question I want to know why he's changing the table names? ;) Oh my gosh, what a horrible mess you might create all the way down the line -- not just with lookup fields. Susan H. From john at winhaven.net Thu Mar 25 18:11:14 2004 From: john at winhaven.net (John Bartow) Date: Thu, 25 Mar 2004 18:11:14 -0600 Subject: [AccessD] Lookup Fields in Table Design In-Reply-To: <2F8793082E00D4119A1700B0D0216BF8022279C0@main2.marlow.com> Message-ID: OK, he took it well, you get your .5 back Score: nay-sayers 2 / sayer 7.5 -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of DWUTKA at marlow.com Sent: Thursday, March 25, 2004 4:22 PM To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: RE: [AccessD] Lookup Fields in Table Design My reputation must proceed me! ROTFLMAO! Drew -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Charlotte Foust Sent: Thursday, March 25, 2004 3:32 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] Lookup Fields in Table Design I think you added too soon. The discussion is far from over just because Drew weighed in on one side. Charlotte Foust -----Original Message----- From: John Bartow [mailto:john at winhaven.net] Sent: Thursday, March 25, 2004 1:20 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] Lookup Fields in Table Design Slam and dunk! 5 point sayers! Score: 2 nay-sayers / 7.5 sayers -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of DWUTKA at marlow.com Sent: Thursday, March 25, 2004 3:10 PM To: AccessD at databaseadvisors.com Subject: [AccessD] Lookup Fields in Table Design Okay, the three reasons given so far for not using the Lookup feature in your table designs are: #1: Lazy developer tool, which can confuse users. #2: Performance Decrease. #3: Bloat Okay, for number one, I personally don't see a point in arguing against that, because it's too darn easy to confuse users. If we didn't use something that could confuse a user, we would have to kick our computers out the door! LOL (sorry, couldn't resist). Now for Number 2. Did a simple test. I created a database with a simple lookup table (with a list of states) and then added a table that had a 'State' field. Copied that database, and then added a lookup for the State field, using the tblStates table. Then I created a little code which added 200,000 records to tblCustomerInfo (my 'dummy' table). BOTH databases took about the same amount of time to enter records. (used an INSERT INTO statement.....that took a while, probably would have been faster to use the Add method of a recordset. Either way, both processes took about the same amount of time.). With 200,000 records in the table, in both databases, opening the table in datasheet view takes the same amount of time in either database. Thus, no performance decrease at all. Number 3. Well, I checked the size of both databases along the whole process. (I did put the lookup table in both databases, so they should have been the same 'size'). Guess what, they were. Started at 92,160 bytes (each) with no data other then the US States, and after 200,000 records, both databases were 5,869,568 bytes. I even manually added records (about a dozen), and both databases were still the same size (in bytes), though I didn't write those numbers down. However, and this is a BIG however. I found a distinct advantage to using a Lookup field. In the database with the Lookup field, I had set the Limit to List property to Yes. I then tweaked my code, and added "XX", instead of a random state, for 10 records. BOTH databases added 10 records with XX in it. Going to the Non-lookup database, I could still manually enter a record with XX as the State. Going to the Lookup database, I could NOT manually enter XX, because it wouldn't let me enter a state not on the list. Setting the field validation for <>"XX" in both tables, prevented the code from adding new records with that value. So that is a very interesting advantage. It allows you to enforce 'user' data entry 'rules', while allowing code inserted/modified data to bypass. That could be handy. One last note. The 'lookup' capability does NOT have to be a SQL statement. Combo boxes and listboxes can both use Callback functions. This DOES apply to Lookup fields. (did a test. Used a previously built Callback function that lists the reports in a db for list/combo box, and added it to a field's lookup property. sure enough, it listed the reports when entering that field.) Drew -- -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From john at winhaven.net Thu Mar 25 18:11:16 2004 From: john at winhaven.net (John Bartow) Date: Thu, 25 Mar 2004 18:11:16 -0600 Subject: [AccessD] Framework Discussion - set up question In-Reply-To: <20040325221619.UXAT17649.imf25aec.mail.bellsouth.net@SUSANONE> Message-ID: It happens, somethings are beyond our control... -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Susan Harkins Sent: Thursday, March 25, 2004 4:16 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: [AccessD] Framework Discussion - set up question I want to know why he's changing the table names? ;) Oh my gosh, what a horrible mess you might create all the way down the line -- not just with lookup fields. Susan H. From john at winhaven.net Thu Mar 25 18:11:17 2004 From: john at winhaven.net (John Bartow) Date: Thu, 25 Mar 2004 18:11:17 -0600 Subject: [AccessD] Framework Discussion - set up question In-Reply-To: <005301c412b3$a85168d0$2a3ca8c0@TEXASSYSTEMS.COM> Message-ID: +.5 on the corruption - I don't buy it as reason to not use lookups but you scared me a little before I got to the end and I really have to cut the nay-sayers some slack they're so far behind here - gotta please the crowd too! :o) Score: nay-sayers 2.5 / sayer 7.5 -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Ken Ismert Sent: Thursday, March 25, 2004 3:54 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: [AccessD] Framework Discussion - set up question Drew, >Lookups are just part of Access' table design, and are relatively >irrelevant when you use Access strictly as a BE. ... But is that >going to affect anything using that .mdb as a BE? No. Try this: 1. Create a blank database. Save it as Test.mdb. 2. Turn off Name Autocorrect (Tools, Options, General) 3. Import all tables from Northwind.mdb. Note that the Orders table has lookups defined for the CustomerID, EmployeeID, and ShipVia fields. 4. Rename the Customers, Employees and Shippers tables. Reopen Orders. You will now get intermittent errors saying the recordsource specified in the lookup doesn't exist. 5. Create a new blank database, and save it as TestLink.mdb. Link to the Orders table in Test.mdb. Open the linked orders table. You will also get the same intermittent errors, especially after re-opening TestLink. (My test platform is A2K.) When a linked table is queried in the front end, Access tries to open ALL the lookup queries associated with that table in the back end. Errors in those lookup queries will propagate to the front end. This can play havoc when trying to recover corrupted data. I personally experienced this when corrupted data in the lookup tables was preventing data in the main table from being read. Only after opening the table in design mode and removing the lookup queries were we able to get a partial recovery. In short, data is too important to risk with such an error-prone feature as table lookups. The performance degradation issues, while valid, are secondary. The same applies for subdatasheets. If you want to use lookups, make a query, and define them there. -Ken -----Original Message----- From: DWUTKA at marlow.com [mailto:DWUTKA at marlow.com] Sent: Thursday, March 25, 2004 1:59 PM To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: RE: [AccessD] Framework Discussion - set up question I don't get that 'main' argument. -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From ssharkins at bellsouth.net Thu Mar 25 18:12:50 2004 From: ssharkins at bellsouth.net (Susan Harkins) Date: Thu, 25 Mar 2004 19:12:50 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Framework Discussion - set up question In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <20040326001244.HXLT1780.imf23aec.mail.bellsouth.net@SUSANONE> But lookup fields are the only issue in this regard. It's a wash. Remember the user, remember the environment. I believe the Access development team wants Access to be more user friendly to the average user and this is just one of the many features that make that happen. The lone user doesn't even split a database unless there's a functional reason for doing so. I use several in my own work, none of them are split -- no need for it. Because a lookup field may not be a good choice in one environment doesn't condemn it for all. Other than that, I have no opinion. ;) Susan H. 2. I agree, this can be an issue. 2) when you want to add additonal columns so that the sub table can have it's own set of attributes because the system has "grown" you'll need to revisit the table to make the changes for the FE, but if you're using some sort of BE/FE setup then you can't do anything until all the users are out :) -- -Francisco -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From DWUTKA at marlow.com Thu Mar 25 18:18:23 2004 From: DWUTKA at marlow.com (DWUTKA at marlow.com) Date: Thu, 25 Mar 2004 18:18:23 -0600 Subject: [AccessD] Framework Discussion - set up question Message-ID: <2F8793082E00D4119A1700B0D0216BF8022279C9@main2.marlow.com> Um, no. I tested it. I have proven beyond a shadow of a doubt that their is NO bloat. (I'll be happy to send you the test databases....or, you could prove it to yourself. Better yet, PROVE that there IS bloat! HAH!). I have also tested the performance. NO PERFORMANCE issue at all. Now, that means that our side has not only 'acknowledged' your agruments, but we have gone and shown them to be false. In a normal debate, you would then go and try to find a particular instance where you might be right. However, since we have TESTED our proof, you would need to do the same, because coming back with 'Ya, well, what if you used a lookup, that hit a NASA satellite , to find out the exact number of sunspots at that moment in time, and then linked that data with a complex Join against an Oracle database, if you were dealing with a billion records, THEN Lookups would be a performance issue.' is kind of lame, with no steps to recreate, or links to actual proof. Here's an example of definitive proof: Put the code below in a module, then set a field to have DBReportNames in the RowsourceType. NOTICE, the acLBGetValue 'code' has a little extra that WAITS an entire second before it returns anything. Now, open the table. Did you notice any delay? I did this to my 200,000 record table. I only put 1 test report in, but by YOUR performance issue, I should have not seen anything for 200,000 seconds, because it should have done 'something' since there is a lookup. Well it didn't. Ah, but maybe the code isn't working. Nope again. Go ahead and select the field you have the lookup setup for. Sure enough, it will delay a second for each report, before displaying it in the combo box. Hmmmmmmmmmm. Proof that there is no performance degradation, and I've already proven no bloat. Now, what 'arguments' are we ignoring? Drew (example code below) Option Compare Database Option Explicit Public lstReportNameArrayCount As Long Public lstReportNameArray() Function DBReportNames(ctrl As Control, id As Variant, row As Variant, col As Variant, code As Variant) As Variant Select Case code Case acLBInitialize 'Okay, we need to create the array Dim ctr As Container Dim dbs As Database Set dbs = CurrentDb Set ctr = dbs.Containers!Reports Dim rpt As Document Dim i As Long lstReportNameArrayCount = ctr.Documents.Count ReDim lstReportNameArray(1 To lstReportNameArrayCount) i = 1 For Each rpt In ctr.Documents lstReportNameArray(i) = rpt.Name i = i + 1 Next rpt Set dbs = Nothing Set ctr = Nothing DBReportNames = 1 Case acLBOpen DBReportNames = 1 Case acLBGetRowCount DBReportNames = lstReportNameArrayCount Case acLBGetColumnCount DBReportNames = 1 Case acLBGetColumnWidth DBReportNames = -1 Case acLBGetValue Dim tmpTime As Date tmpTime = Now() Do Until Now >= tmpTime + (1 / 24 / 60 / 60) Loop DBReportNames = lstReportNameArray(row + 1) Case acLBGetFormat DBReportNames = -1 Case acLBEnd ReDim lstReportNameArray(1 To 1) lstReportNameArrayCount = -1 End Select End Function -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Charlotte Foust Sent: Thursday, March 25, 2004 5:21 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] Framework Discussion - set up question Hah! You guys would refuse to acknowledge valid arguments on the other side, regardless, because it doesn't agree with your predelictions! Charlotte Foust -----Original Message----- From: DWUTKA at marlow.com [mailto:DWUTKA at marlow.com] Sent: Thursday, March 25, 2004 2:39 PM To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: RE: [AccessD] Framework Discussion - set up question We're gonna need a BIG bag of marshmallows! Their side is just burning up. Haven't actually added a valid/proven argument yet! LOL Drew -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Susan Harkins Sent: Thursday, March 25, 2004 4:16 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: [AccessD] Framework Discussion - set up question I want to know why he's changing the table names? ;) Oh my gosh, what a horrible mess you might create all the way down the line -- not just with lookup fields. Susan H. Okay, for number one, let's drop that. It's a pointless argument. If you want to argue that using Lookups adds confusion, then I would REALLY hate to see your table designs. Have you ever tried to explain a many to many table to a 'user'? Trust me, they'll pick up what a 'lookup' field does a LOT faster. And if you aren't using things like many to many tables, because users could get confused, then you are not normalizing your data. See how this is a BAD argument to try to defend against? Now for number 2. You can't hack a feature with a 'feature creep' agrument. Feature creep can affect anything in a bad way, however, if you are getting paid by the hour, or are doing contract work, Feature creep means more money! LOL -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From martyconnelly at shaw.ca Thu Mar 25 18:18:06 2004 From: martyconnelly at shaw.ca (MartyConnelly) Date: Thu, 25 Mar 2004 16:18:06 -0800 Subject: [AccessD] Synchronize with Palm or PocketPC References: <000a01c410f5$a52eb4b0$de1811d8@DanWaters> Message-ID: <406376BE.9080305@shaw.ca> http://www.microsoft.com/windowsmobile/resources/providers/search.asp search under software and look for databases there are about 20 different products This is one that pops up http://www.kelbran.com/products/WirelessDB.html Dan Waters wrote: >Carlos, > >Now 3 ways to investigate! > >Thanks! >Dan > >-----Original Message----- >From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com >[mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Carlos Alberto >Alves >Sent: Tuesday, March 23, 2004 2:39 AM >To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving >Subject: Re: [AccessD] Synchronize with Palm or PocketPC > >On Fri, 19 Mar 2004 14:04:02 -0600, Dan Waters >wrote: > > > >>Hello everyone, >> >> >> >>I have a client where a possibly good solution would be to enter >>information >>into a PDA and then synchronize it with an Access app once per day. >> >> >> >>Can anyone point me in a direction to learn more about this? Anyone have >>any good/lousy experiences? >> >> >> >>Thanks! >> >>Dan Waters >> >> >> > >Take a look at http://www.syware.com/ >HTH, > > -- Marty Connelly Victoria, B.C. Canada From john at winhaven.net Thu Mar 25 18:21:22 2004 From: john at winhaven.net (John Bartow) Date: Thu, 25 Mar 2004 18:21:22 -0600 Subject: [AccessD] Lookup Fields in Table Design In-Reply-To: Message-ID: OK, Sorry -1 both sides for inconsiderate subject line... Score: nay-sayers 1 / sayer 6.5 -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of John W. Colby Sent: Thursday, March 25, 2004 4:57 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] Framework Discussion - set up question Could we change the subject on this? I have a filter that pulls "framework" int a directory and I now have about 100 non-framework messages in there. Thanks, JWC From john at winhaven.net Thu Mar 25 18:21:23 2004 From: john at winhaven.net (John Bartow) Date: Thu, 25 Mar 2004 18:21:23 -0600 Subject: [AccessD] Lookup Fields in Table Design In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Now you're just trying to confuse me! (yeah, like, that's tough to do) I looked up predelictions, its NOT in the dictionary. Seriously thinking of throwing another penalty on Charlotte... -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Charlotte Foust Sent: Thursday, March 25, 2004 5:21 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] Framework Discussion - set up question Hah! You guys would refuse to acknowledge valid arguments on the other side, regardless, because it doesn't agree with your predelictions! Charlotte Foust From ssharkins at bellsouth.net Thu Mar 25 18:28:14 2004 From: ssharkins at bellsouth.net (Susan Harkins) Date: Thu, 25 Mar 2004 19:28:14 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Framework Discussion - set up question In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <20040326002809.NIHG1709.imf20aec.mail.bellsouth.net@SUSANONE> I'm just saying that the problems in doing so aren't restricted to lookup fields. Susan H. It happens, somethings are beyond our control... I want to know why he's changing the table names? ;) Oh my gosh, what a horrible mess you might create all the way down the line -- not just with lookup fields. From ssharkins at bellsouth.net Thu Mar 25 18:28:59 2004 From: ssharkins at bellsouth.net (Susan Harkins) Date: Thu, 25 Mar 2004 19:28:59 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Framework Discussion - set up question In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <20040326002857.NIRL1709.imf20aec.mail.bellsouth.net@SUSANONE> Sympathy points -- bah! Susan H. +.5 on the corruption - I don't buy it as reason to not use lookups but +you scared me a little before I got to the end and I really have to cut the nay-sayers some slack they're so far behind here - gotta please the crowd too! :o) Score: nay-sayers 2.5 / sayer 7.5 From cfoust at infostatsystems.com Thu Mar 25 18:29:59 2004 From: cfoust at infostatsystems.com (Charlotte Foust) Date: Thu, 25 Mar 2004 16:29:59 -0800 Subject: [AccessD] Lookup Fields in Table Design Message-ID: That's because I misspelled it in my eagerness to cast nasturtiums on Drew! pred?i?lec?tion (pr?d'l-?k'sh?n, pr?d'-) n. A partiality or disposition in favor of something; a preference. Charlotte Foust -----Original Message----- From: John Bartow [mailto:john at winhaven.net] Sent: Thursday, March 25, 2004 4:21 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Lookup Fields in Table Design Now you're just trying to confuse me! (yeah, like, that's tough to do) I looked up predelictions, its NOT in the dictionary. Seriously thinking of throwing another penalty on Charlotte... -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Charlotte Foust Sent: Thursday, March 25, 2004 5:21 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] Framework Discussion - set up question Hah! You guys would refuse to acknowledge valid arguments on the other side, regardless, because it doesn't agree with your predelictions! Charlotte Foust -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From ssharkins at bellsouth.net Thu Mar 25 18:30:29 2004 From: ssharkins at bellsouth.net (Susan Harkins) Date: Thu, 25 Mar 2004 19:30:29 -0500 Subject: Lookups revisited (RE: [AccessD] Framework Discussion - set up question) In-Reply-To: <2F8793082E00D4119A1700B0D0216BF8022279C9@main2.marlow.com> Message-ID: <20040326003023.NJKI1709.imf20aec.mail.bellsouth.net@SUSANONE> Changing the subject before JC hurts one of us. Susan H. Um, no. I tested it. I have proven beyond a shadow of a doubt that their is NO bloat. (I'll be happy to send you the test databases....or, you could prove it to yourself. Better yet, PROVE that there IS bloat! HAH!). I have also tested the performance. NO PERFORMANCE issue at all. Now, that means that our side has not only 'acknowledged' your agruments, but we have gone and shown them to be false. In a normal debate, you would then go and try to find a particular instance where you might be right. However, since we have TESTED our proof, you would need to do the same, because coming back with 'Ya, well, what if you used a lookup, that hit a NASA satellite , to find out the exact number of sunspots at that moment in time, and then linked that data with a complex Join against an Oracle database, if you were dealing with a billion records, THEN Lookups would be a performance issue.' is kind of lame, with no steps to recreate, or links to actual proof. Here's an example of definitive proof: Put the code below in a module, then set a field to have DBReportNames in the RowsourceType. NOTICE, the acLBGetValue 'code' has a little extra that WAITS an entire second before it returns anything. Now, open the table. Did you notice any delay? I did this to my 200,000 record table. I only put 1 test report in, but by YOUR performance issue, I should have not seen anything for 200,000 seconds, because it should have done 'something' since there is a lookup. Well it didn't. Ah, but maybe the code isn't working. Nope again. Go ahead and select the field you have the lookup setup for. Sure enough, it will delay a second for each report, before displaying it in the combo box. Hmmmmmmmmmm. Proof that there is no performance degradation, and I've already proven no bloat. Now, what 'arguments' are we ignoring? Drew (example code below) Option Compare Database Option Explicit Public lstReportNameArrayCount As Long Public lstReportNameArray() Function DBReportNames(ctrl As Control, id As Variant, row As Variant, col As Variant, code As Variant) As Variant Select Case code Case acLBInitialize 'Okay, we need to create the array Dim ctr As Container Dim dbs As Database Set dbs = CurrentDb Set ctr = dbs.Containers!Reports Dim rpt As Document Dim i As Long lstReportNameArrayCount = ctr.Documents.Count ReDim lstReportNameArray(1 To lstReportNameArrayCount) i = 1 For Each rpt In ctr.Documents lstReportNameArray(i) = rpt.Name i = i + 1 Next rpt Set dbs = Nothing Set ctr = Nothing DBReportNames = 1 Case acLBOpen DBReportNames = 1 Case acLBGetRowCount DBReportNames = lstReportNameArrayCount Case acLBGetColumnCount DBReportNames = 1 Case acLBGetColumnWidth DBReportNames = -1 Case acLBGetValue Dim tmpTime As Date tmpTime = Now() Do Until Now >= tmpTime + (1 / 24 / 60 / 60) Loop DBReportNames = lstReportNameArray(row + 1) Case acLBGetFormat DBReportNames = -1 Case acLBEnd ReDim lstReportNameArray(1 To 1) lstReportNameArrayCount = -1 End Select End Function -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Charlotte Foust Sent: Thursday, March 25, 2004 5:21 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] Framework Discussion - set up question Hah! You guys would refuse to acknowledge valid arguments on the other side, regardless, because it doesn't agree with your predelictions! Charlotte Foust -----Original Message----- From: DWUTKA at marlow.com [mailto:DWUTKA at marlow.com] Sent: Thursday, March 25, 2004 2:39 PM To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: RE: [AccessD] Framework Discussion - set up question We're gonna need a BIG bag of marshmallows! Their side is just burning up. Haven't actually added a valid/proven argument yet! LOL Drew -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Susan Harkins Sent: Thursday, March 25, 2004 4:16 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: [AccessD] Framework Discussion - set up question I want to know why he's changing the table names? ;) Oh my gosh, what a horrible mess you might create all the way down the line -- not just with lookup fields. Susan H. Okay, for number one, let's drop that. It's a pointless argument. If you want to argue that using Lookups adds confusion, then I would REALLY hate to see your table designs. Have you ever tried to explain a many to many table to a 'user'? Trust me, they'll pick up what a 'lookup' field does a LOT faster. And if you aren't using things like many to many tables, because users could get confused, then you are not normalizing your data. See how this is a BAD argument to try to defend against? Now for number 2. You can't hack a feature with a 'feature creep' agrument. Feature creep can affect anything in a bad way, however, if you are getting paid by the hour, or are doing contract work, Feature creep means more money! LOL -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From martyconnelly at shaw.ca Thu Mar 25 18:34:34 2004 From: martyconnelly at shaw.ca (MartyConnelly) Date: Thu, 25 Mar 2004 16:34:34 -0800 Subject: [AccessD] Web Pages in Access References: <30445198.1080117818990.JavaMail.www@wwinf3003> Message-ID: <40637A9A.8050305@shaw.ca> Make sure you can protect against CSS cross side scripting and sql injection attacks as a start http://www.patrice.ch/en/computer/web/articles/2002/web_security.pdf To test if you are susceptible Just enter this in one of your form fields to be entered in the database or even in your userid or password logon fields Now this can also be circumvented with this type of query string: str=%3Cscript%0D%0A%3Ealert(testing)%3C%2Fscript%3E Or to make it more human readable: str=alert(testing) paul.hartland at fsmail.net wrote: >Thanks, will try that.... > > > > > >Message date : Mar 24 2004, 06:57 AM >>From : "S D" >To : "Access Developers discussion and problem solving" >Copy to : >Subject : Re: Re: Re: [AccessD] Web Pages in Access >Here you go: > >http://www.asp101.com/samples/login.asp > >Regards, > >Sander. > >PS: this is a great site for a beginner. Very clear samples WITH GREAT expl. > >paul.hartland at fsmail.net wrote: >Sander, > >The original message was from Dale, I replied with my question of sample code for ASP logon etc which checks a username and password from an Access or SQL Server database. > >Im still after any sample code with a brief explanation of how it all works for an ASP logon page. > >Paul > > > > > > >Message date : Mar 23 2004, 02:48 PM >>From : "S D" >To : "Access Developers discussion and problem solving" >Copy to : >Subject : Re: Re: [AccessD] Web Pages in Access >Paul, > >is it standard ASP that you want? >I've had to deal with the same problem and that's why I started building my own pages for testing and such. > >I can send them to you off-line if you want. > >I'm not exactly sure what you did but if you somehow exporterd you're standard Access master-detail form to ASP...I don't think that that will work. ASP doesn't have 'sub-forms' Maybe Access-ASP has. In standard ASP you would build a table using HTML and fill it with a recordset. > >Then you would have to check how many records you would like to see....create nav buttons...aarhg the horror is getting worse and worse. > >If need the samples let me know. I believe I use a SQL-Server as data thingy...hmm have to look tonight. > >Regards, > >Sander > >paul.hartland at fsmail.net wrote: >Tell you what, I'm just about to start getting into HTML, ASP etc (horrified at the thought, but it has to be done). So if anyone has sample code for a pretty secure logon page that will then direct the user to a menu page if the password is correct etc I would like to see the code, preferably with a simple explanation of how it works. I have found various little bits and pieces on the web but could never get them to work properly. >Paul Hartland > > > > > >Message date : Mar 23 2004, 12:34 PM >>From : chris at thecube.net >To : accessd at databaseadvisors.com >Copy to : >Subject : Re: [AccessD] Web Pages in Access >Dale, > >Looks like you need to start venturing into ASP, if you cade code using recordsets then ASP is not >really that big a step. Let me know if you would like a kick start and/or sample ASP > >Cheers > >Chris >----- Original Message ----- >From: Dale Kalsow >To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com >Sent: Mon, 22 Mar 2004 12:51:40 -0800 (PST) >Subject: [AccessD] Web Pages in Access > >Does Anyone have experiance with creating web pages through Acess. I have a form that currently >works within access. It displays the fields of a table and then has a subform that displays (and >allows modifications) all of the parts that go along with the master record. I can export the form >to html but loose the subform and have not been able to figure out how to recrate the functionally >of the subform. > >All help is appreciated! > >Thanks! > >Dale > >Do you Yahoo!? >Yahoo! Finance Tax Center - File online. File on time. > > -- Marty Connelly Victoria, B.C. Canada From accessd at shaw.ca Thu Mar 25 19:10:36 2004 From: accessd at shaw.ca (Jim Lawrence (AccessD)) Date: Thu, 25 Mar 2004 17:10:36 -0800 Subject: [AccessD] Framework Discussion - set up question In-Reply-To: <2F8793082E00D4119A1700B0D0216BF8022279B5@main2.marlow.com> Message-ID: Hi Drew: ...and expanding on your comments. Just today, I was told by an Oracle guru that the 'Access toy' could not connect to Oracle let alone connect to two separate Oracle DBs. Then when he was shown that it did he said that some inline code must have been added because Access was not capable of it. It is difficult to deal with that mindset... Jim -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of DWUTKA at marlow.com Sent: Thursday, March 25, 2004 11:45 AM To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: RE: [AccessD] Framework Discussion - set up question I have to agree with Susan on this. Yes, it is a tool to build desktop applications. However, so is Word, Excel, and even Outlook for that matter. VBA is a POWERFUL tool, and can quite frankly do anything it wants too, to a Windows OS. However, The Office Suite was ALSO meant to be a tool for the average user. No coding experience necessary to use any of the Office programs. This includes Access. Now, the fact that most users use Excel/Word, where they should be using Access, is simply due to the fact that most people hear the word 'database', and freak. Personally, I think that is do to overly complex systems built by 'professional developers'. The fact that the entire Office Suite is both easy to use, and powerful enough to create actual applications, should be a kudos to Microsoft, not a 'hot issue' to debate between developers. Now, what I feel needs to be 'fought' for, is the acceptance of Access throughout the db development world. I get tired of listening to SQL Server and Oracle developers who think of Access as a toy, instead of a database. Just my two cents. Drew -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Charlotte Foust Sent: Thursday, March 25, 2004 12:20 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] Framework Discussion - set up question >> I'm mostly in favor of anything that makes Access more available to the average user -- it IS a desktop application after all. Are you TRYING to start a fight, Susan?!!? Most of us have been trying for years to convince Microsoft that this is NOT a desktop application, it's a tool to *build* desktop applications. Let the flames begin! Charlotte Foust -----Original Message----- From: Susan Harkins [mailto:ssharkins at bellsouth.net] Sent: Thursday, March 25, 2004 10:03 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: [AccessD] Framework Discussion - set up question No. :) I'm talking about the built-in lookup field feature that lets you display a related value from another table. Open a table in Design view and click the Lookup tab in the Properties pane. Developers soundly trash them, but I find them rather cool -- and if abused, is that Access's fault? ;) I'm mostly in favor of anything that makes Access more available to the average user -- it IS a desktop application after all. No, I don't use them, and I often have to "undo" them in Northwind when I'm using that db in an article example, but I can see why users would like and use them. Here we goooooooooooooooooooo! ;) Susan H. Susan, I've seen people joke about this before and I've just assumed I knew what they were referring to ("hard coded" delimited lists that are not stored in a table). Is this a correct assumption? -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From martyconnelly at shaw.ca Thu Mar 25 19:23:36 2004 From: martyconnelly at shaw.ca (MartyConnelly) Date: Thu, 25 Mar 2004 17:23:36 -0800 Subject: [AccessD] OT: Migration to SQL Server - sort of References: <000301c411aa$1d158a80$6401a8c0@COA3> Message-ID: <40638618.8080805@shaw.ca> Just a head's up with these types of GUID keys, they may start to become, a lot more commonly used. I was just reading a paper and methodology developed by IBM Global and the Alberta Government for implemention of privacy legislation across databases. In Canada this would address legislation like Personal Information Protection and Electronic Documents Act, also known by the awkward acronym PIPEDA, or something like HIPPA in the US, there is similar legislation in UK and EU. http://sharp.gov.ab.ca/ppa/documents/AlbertaPrivacyArchitectureOverview.pdf The method is a Privacy Taxonomy which provides a comprehensive scheme to consistently label privacy-relevant objects and actions in an IT environment with an an Identity Key Scheme based on hidden Meaningless But Unique Numbers (MBUNs) to be used over multiple databases in an organization. These MBUN's are going to be long unique keys possibly a GUID. They will map things like a SIN and Drivers license into a MBUN so tables can be accessed or aggregated without giving access to an exact individuals records. Developer wrote: >Not exactly migration, but biggest issue I've had lately with Access >FE's to SQL 2k is that Access can't deal with GUID's. You *must* make >all the queries that join on these types of fields into views because >Access can't relaibly make these joins. > > > > >-----Original Message----- >From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com >[mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Martin Reid >Sent: Wednesday, March 24, 2004 7:56 AM >To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving >Subject: Re: [AccessD] OT: Migration to SQL Server > > >Anything special you had to do in terms of SQL Server to assist in >managing the resulting databases? for example creating admin users etc > > >Martin > > > >----- Original Message ----- >From: "Mike & Doris Manning" >To: "'Access Developers discussion and problem solving'" > >Sent: Wednesday, March 24, 2004 12:27 PM >Subject: RE: [AccessD] OT: Migration to SQL Server > > > > >>Hi Martin, >> >>I migrated four different Access dbs to a single instance of SQL >>Server about a year ago and didn't encounter any problems. >> >>Doris Manning >>Database Administrator >>Hargrove Inc. >>www.hargroveinc.com >> >> >>-----Original Message----- >>From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com >>[mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Martin Reid >>Sent: Tuesday, March 23, 2004 4:58 PM >>To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving >>Subject: [AccessD] OT: Migration to SQL Server >> >> >>Anyone done any work migrating SEVERAL Access dbs to a single instance >> >> > > > >>of SQL Server?? >> >>Particulary interested in any problems this caused etc etc >> >>Maybe a pointer to things to come. I have been asked to look at >>several areas around this subject including building .NET Front Ends >>to migrated dbs. >> >>Martin >> >>-- >>_______________________________________________ >>AccessD mailing list >>AccessD at databaseadvisors.com >>http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd >>Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com >> >>-- >>_______________________________________________ >>AccessD mailing list >>AccessD at databaseadvisors.com >>http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd >>Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com >> >> >> > > > -- Marty Connelly Victoria, B.C. Canada From martyconnelly at shaw.ca Thu Mar 25 19:41:19 2004 From: martyconnelly at shaw.ca (MartyConnelly) Date: Thu, 25 Mar 2004 17:41:19 -0800 Subject: [AccessD] IP Telephony WAS Not enough space on disk References: Message-ID: <40638A3F.2080107@shaw.ca> Here is a starting point An Introduction to VoIP and VOCAL (open source project that provides call control, routing, media, policy, billing information and provisioning on a system ) http://www.oreillynet.com/pub/a/network/2002/10/11/voip.html or http://www.vovida.org/ or have a look at this UK based free VOIP phone service that works dependent on the firewall status of the client with the data stream set up either as UDP (if firewall allows) or in worse case as an outgoing TCP connection to a supernode. http://www.skype.com/ ggonzalez at cccis.com wrote: > > >John, I am currently doing some research on IP telephony to use in some of >my applications, is there any websites and or books you can recommend. > >Thanks, Gumaro > > > > "John Clark" > > .com> cc: > Sent by: Subject: Re: [AccessD] Not enough space on disk. > accessd-bounces at databasea > dvisors.com > > > 03/23/2004 12:54 PM > Please respond to Access > Developers discussion and > problem solving > > > > > >I suspected you might have Novell. I help to administer our Novell >network, along with IP telephony and Access programming, and I get asked >to increase a user's space restrictions quite often--especially when one >of our techs go to the PC and remain logged in as the user. > >Take care! > >John W Clark > > > >>>>ggonzalez at cccis.com 3/22/2004 3:05:04 PM >>> >>>> >>>> > > > > > >Yes, Novel is the NOS. It seems that is the problem. Even though I >was >trying to access local databases the security file that I use is on >the >network. when I changed the security file locally everything worked >fine, >I then requested more space on the network and all worked there also. > >Thanks to everyone for their help. > > > > > > > "John Clark" > > > > .com> cc: > > Sent by: Subject: Re: >[AccessD] Not enough space on disk. > > accessd-bounces at databasea > > dvisors.com > > > > > > 03/22/2004 12:35 PM > > Please respond to Access > > Developers discussion and > > problem solving > > > > > > > >Are you running on a network at all? If so, what NOS? > >And, if so, are you logged in as yourself, on the other PCs? > > > >>>>ggonzalez at cccis.com 3/22/2004 1:27:01 PM >>> >>>> >>>> > > > > > >I have tried rebooting and several of the options in the Microsoft >knowledge base to no avail. > >Thanks > > >|---------+------------------------------------> >| | Francisco H Tapia | >| | | >| | Sent by: | >| | accessd-bounces at databasea| >| | dvisors.com | >| | | >| | | >| | 03/22/2004 12:22 PM | >| | Please respond to Access | >| | Developers discussion and| >| | problem solving | >|---------+------------------------------------> > > > >>---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------| >> >> > > > | > >| > | To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > > | > | cc: > >| > | Subject: Re: [AccessD] Not enough space on disk. > >| > > > >>---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------| >> >> > > > > > > >try a reboot like suggested by Gary Kjos, additonally what OS is this >running on? win95/98/ME/nt/2k/xp? > > > >ggonzalez at cccis.com wrote: > > > >>I have 3 Gig and 256 of ram >> >> >> >> >> > > > >>How much hdd space is available on your C: for the computer that gets >>this error?, how much ram does it have? >> >> >>ggonzalez at cccis.com wrote: >> >> >> >> >> >>>I am gettin getting this error when I try to open a database on my >>>computer. I have plenty od disk space available though. When I go >>> >>> >to > > >>>another computer and access the same database I have no problem. >>> >>>Does anybody have any sugestions why this is happening. >>> >>>Thanks, Gumaro >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >> >> >> >> > ><>-- >-Francisco > > >-- >_______________________________________________ >AccessD mailing list >AccessD at databaseadvisors.com >http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd >Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > >-- >_______________________________________________ >AccessD mailing list >AccessD at databaseadvisors.com >http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd >Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > >-- >_______________________________________________ >AccessD mailing list >AccessD at databaseadvisors.com >http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd >Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > >-- >_______________________________________________ >AccessD mailing list >AccessD at databaseadvisors.com >http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd >Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > >-- >_______________________________________________ >AccessD mailing list >AccessD at databaseadvisors.com >http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd >Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > -- Marty Connelly Victoria, B.C. Canada From john at winhaven.net Thu Mar 25 20:08:49 2004 From: john at winhaven.net (John Bartow) Date: Thu, 25 Mar 2004 20:08:49 -0600 Subject: [AccessD] Lookup Fields in Table Design In-Reply-To: <2F8793082E00D4119A1700B0D0216BF8022279C8@main2.marlow.com> Message-ID: Drews attempt at taunting the crowd. :o) -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of DWUTKA at marlow.com Sent: Thursday, March 25, 2004 6:06 PM To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: RE: Lookup fields WAS: RE: [AccessD] Framework Discussion - set up question And where would your comment lie? Drew -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of John W. Colby Sent: Thursday, March 25, 2004 5:01 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: Lookup fields WAS: RE: [AccessD] Framework Discussion - set up question That's because I have been staying out of it. JWC -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of DWUTKA at marlow.com Sent: Thursday, March 25, 2004 5:43 PM To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: Lookup fields WAS: RE: [AccessD] Framework Discussion - set up question You know Susan, the Bounders had MUCH better arguments, and they could defend most of them too. Oh, I miss the good ol' days. Drew -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Susan Harkins Sent: Thursday, March 25, 2004 4:16 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: [AccessD] Framework Discussion - set up question I want to know why he's changing the table names? ;) Oh my gosh, what a horrible mess you might create all the way down the line -- not just with lookup fields. Susan H. Okay, for number one, let's drop that. It's a pointless argument. If you want to argue that using Lookups adds confusion, then I would REALLY hate to see your table designs. Have you ever tried to explain a many to many table to a 'user'? Trust me, they'll pick up what a 'lookup' field does a LOT faster. And if you aren't using things like many to many tables, because users could get confused, then you are not normalizing your data. See how this is a BAD argument to try to defend against? Now for number 2. You can't hack a feature with a 'feature creep' agrument. Feature creep can affect anything in a bad way, however, if you are getting paid by the hour, or are doing contract work, Feature creep means more money! LOL -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From john at winhaven.net Thu Mar 25 20:13:04 2004 From: john at winhaven.net (John Bartow) Date: Thu, 25 Mar 2004 20:13:04 -0600 Subject: [AccessD] Lookup Fields in Table Design In-Reply-To: <20040326002857.NIRL1709.imf20aec.mail.bellsouth.net@SUSANONE> Message-ID: Never say I don't have a kind heart :O) -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Susan Harkins Sent: Thursday, March 25, 2004 6:29 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: [AccessD] Framework Discussion - set up question Sympathy points -- bah! Susan H. +.5 on the corruption - I don't buy it as reason to not use lookups but +you scared me a little before I got to the end and I really have to cut the nay-sayers some slack they're so far behind here - gotta please the crowd too! :o) Score: nay-sayers 2.5 / sayer 7.5 -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From KIsmert at TexasSystems.com Thu Mar 25 20:18:36 2004 From: KIsmert at TexasSystems.com (Ken Ismert) Date: Thu, 25 Mar 2004 20:18:36 -0600 Subject: [AccessD] Framework Discussion - set up question In-Reply-To: <2F8793082E00D4119A1700B0D0216BF8022279C2@main2.marlow.com> Message-ID: <008b01c412d8$a56cbfa0$2a3ca8c0@TEXASSYSTEMS.COM> Drew > No need to do what you described. Already knew that. So you acknowledge that errors in the lookup query or the underlying lookup data will cause errors in the front end. That appears to contradict your earlier statement: "But is that going to affect anything using that .mdb as a BE? No.". My point was to show that, in three minutes, you can construct a scenario where lookups in the BE cause FE errors. My errors were contrived, admittedly, but we all know what can happen in production environments. Access is not the most robust data server, even in ideal conditions. Why add elements to your tables that could cause additional errors in production? >If you could LINK the tables in a corrupted database, >you could have also used DAO/ADO to just pull the data. For those of you willing to try my example, you would see otherwise. You just can't simply link and open a query against it. Sure, you could get fancy and write code, under pressure, to try to get your data. Drew might be eager to do that, but I'm not. You do tacitly acknowledge that it "can make recovery difficult". So, why make your life more difficult, when you can get all the benefits of lookups, with none of these drawbacks, by using them in queries? >Second, still have yet to see proof of performance degradation. >Show me proof of that before the 'no lookup' side brings it up again! Oh, very well. Since you contrived the best of all possible examples to support your 'no performance degradation' claim, I wrote some code and contrived the worst: a 200 record main table with a field lookup defined against a 200,000 record lookup table, unindexed. The results were predictable: queries against the reference table, with no lookup defined, ran lightning fast. Queries against the main table with the lookup took about 7 seconds to reach the end of the recordset on my machine. A datasheet form based on the sluggard query was even worse: the underlying query took its 7 seconds, and the form's combo took an additional 3 seconds or so, for truly lousy performance! Nothing's free, Drew. Any form, using a lookup combo, which is based on a query pointing at a table, which is doing its own lookup for that same field, is doing double work. To be fair, opening the querydefs in code produced no noticeable degradation. So did direct SQL. But completely eliminating query-based forms and reports to avoid the performance hits for table lookups is kind of cutting of your nose off despite your face, no? To end, I am NOT opposed to lookups! Just put them in queries or forms, where they more appropriately belong! -Ken -----Original Message----- From: DWUTKA at marlow.com [mailto:DWUTKA at marlow.com] Sent: Thursday, March 25, 2004 4:37 PM To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: RE: [AccessD] Framework Discussion - set up question Two things. No need to do what you described. Already knew that. First thing. AND? If you could LINK the tables in a corrupted database, you could have also used DAO/ADO to just pull the data. Both of which would have completely ignored the Lookup information. OR, you could have just made dummy tables to represent the lookup tables. Lookup doesn't care if the old data is there or not, and it will look for a local table, whether it's linked, or it's native. It also doesn't perform data integrity checks. It doesn't care if old data fits the lookup stuff or not! Now, if you said that Lookups can cause corruption, completely different story. There are a lot of things that can make recovery difficult, that doesn't mean that you shouldn't use code, ban multiple users from your database, or prevent referential integrity! Second, still have yet to see proof of performance degradation. Show me proof of that before the 'no lookup' side brings it up again! Drew -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Ken Ismert Sent: Thursday, March 25, 2004 3:54 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: [AccessD] Framework Discussion - set up question From john at winhaven.net Thu Mar 25 20:22:29 2004 From: john at winhaven.net (John Bartow) Date: Thu, 25 Mar 2004 20:22:29 -0600 Subject: [AccessD] Lookup Fields in Table Design In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Nasturtiums? I do believe they would be hard to cast! -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Charlotte Foust Sent: Thursday, March 25, 2004 6:30 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] Lookup Fields in Table Design That's because I misspelled it in my eagerness to cast nasturtiums on Drew! predilection (pred'l-ek'sh?n, pred'-) n. A partiality or disposition in favor of something; a preference. Charlotte Foust From john at winhaven.net Thu Mar 25 20:31:59 2004 From: john at winhaven.net (John Bartow) Date: Thu, 25 Mar 2004 20:31:59 -0600 Subject: [AccessD] Framework pseudo-definition In-Reply-To: Message-ID: John, Been reading these really close as I cut&paste them into Word and printed them out (sitting in the clinic/hospital waiting room the couple of days and had to have something to read other than People and Glamour). So - I'm not trying to be nit picky here or anything just need to clarify a question. If you scroll down and find the series of ??? in the text the question is there. John B. -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of John W. Colby Sent: Wednesday, March 03, 2004 9:05 PM To: AccessD Subject: [AccessD] Framework pseudo-definition Folks, I have thrown out suggestions about how I handle things "using my framework". Robert has asked me what a framework is and how to start one. Unfortunately the word Framework is used by different people for different things, so I will state my own definitions with the warning that I have no intention of arguing with anyone who doesn't like my definition. For my purposes, a framework is a skeleton. Look at a skyscraper being built on the horizon. The framework is all that steel, the elevators, the air conditioning, electrical service, water, sewage etc. ALL of that stuff is necessary regardless of whether you intend to rent one thousand square feet or one million. And once all of that stuff is in place, the rest is just sheetrock, aluminum framing, doors and windows. My framework starts with a class named dclsFW, the framework class. It is instantiated ONE time (a single instance), but inside of that class is the foundation of the rest of the system. It has "class global" variables for other "service" classes. By "class global" I mean private to the class (can only be directly manipulated by the class) but global to the class (can be seen from anywhere in THAT class). By Service classes I mean classes such as my SysVars, Zip/unzip, Encrypt/Decrypt and so forth. These are really "standalone classes", they do not require my framework at all in order to function, but by placing then in my framework class I provide them to any other part of my class. dclsFW instantiates all these service classes when dclsFW initializes, and tears them down when dclsFW terminates. dclsFW also provides property gets to allow other code to access these service classes directly. ALL classes, EVERY SINGLE ONE, have a set of common stuff at the top, a handful of private constants and variables, and init/term events. This stuff is SO common that you can literally cut and paste it from a "template class" into a new class and save that and have a new working class. The framework class dclsFW is just the foundation of the framework, it is NOT the skeleton itself. Because Access is so Form-centric I have an entire skeleton for forms and controls. Thus I have a form class named dclsFrm. This class is instantiated by any form that wants to use my framework (90% or more in my databases) in the form's OnOpen. Each form has a "form global" (dimensioned PUBLIC) variable for the dclsFrm, and instantiates it in OnOpen, then calls the init of dclsFrm passing in a pointer to itself. dclsFrm then stores that pointer to the form in a private variable in it's header. dclsFrm is the foundation of the FORM skeleton if you will, but it uses services provided by dclsFW (the framework foundation class). dclsFrm also SINKS EVERY form event. The private form variable in dclsFrm's header is dimensioned WithEvents and I then built event stubs for every single form event. The ONLY one that doesn't actually function is OnOpen and that is because the class is instantiated in the form's built-in class in OnOpen and therefore by the time dclsFrm loads OnOpen has come and gone. One implication of this is that NO FORM is lightweight since it must have its built-in class to store the pointer to my dclsFrm, and of course an OnOpen to set and initialize dclsFrm. Just as we have a class for the form, EVERY data aware control has a class which I name dclsCtlCbo, dclsCtlTxt, dclsCtlGrp etc. mostly so that all of the control classes will group together in the module window, but also because it makes it obvious that these classes are control classes. dclsFrm has a private function called from its Init() which I call FindControls (very descriptive I know). This function iterates the form's Control Collection. Remember that dclsFrm was passed a pointer to the form by the form itself as it initialized dclsFrm. As I iterate the control collection I have a large case statement that basically says: for each ctl in frm.controls select case ctl.ControlType case "textbox" 'instantiate the text box control class case "combo" 'instantiate the combo class etc end select next ctl Thus as each control is examined I discover the type of the control, I load an instance of the class for that type of control and pass in a pointer to the control. I save all of these control classes into a collection. By the time FindControls is finished I have loaded a class instance for EVERY control on the form (more or less), and each of those control class instances has a pointer to it's control. As I do in the form, I dim the control variable in each control class Withevents and build event sinks for the control events. In this case I am a little more lenient and only build event sinks for the events I actually use. I did this partly because I don't use many of the key events and mouse events (in every control) and didn't want the overhead of those event stubs being called all the time. Now this sounds like a LOT of work, and a LOT of overhead. It is a lot of work, but in fact very little overhead. It turns out that classes load the entire class ONE TIME, then only a new header section (global variables) for each additional instance of that class type. Thus if I load 10 combo class instances, only one loads completely, then just the header of the other 9. All of the code is shared... unless there are static variables in the functions which is handled appropriately such that each class instance has it's own static variables. I ran some timing awhile back on a VERY complex form with dozens of controls. What I discovered is that on an old 100 mhz Pentium of the day, the overhead was one half of one millisecond per class instance, to load each instance. Folks, that is NOTHING compared to the time to load the data for example. And of course that was a sloooooowwwwww computer compared to what we have now. So there you have it. By the time dclsFrm loads, it also loads a class for each data aware class on the form. ???????????????????????????????????????????????????????? Is the sentence abov suppose to read this way or is it supposed to be: By the time dclsFrm loads, it also loads a class for each data aware "control" on the form. ???????????????????????????????????????????????????????? The form's skeleton is built and loaded. Now that I have classes for each control and the form, and these classes sinking all the necessary events, I can add functionality to each class as desired. All of the various things you have heard me discuss in the "in my framework I do..." emails are nothing more than discovering the code required to do this stuff, then putting it out in the classes in the framework. Let's take a working example. Every data aware control may be referenced by a combo, list or subform in the SQL statement or query that loads the data into these objects. Thus a combo can be "filtered" by another combo, or by a check box, or by a text box etc. I call the object being filtered a "dependent object" because its dataset depends on some other control (or controls). In ALL of my classes for data aware controls I have a collection which I call colDepObjs. So every combo, list, textbox, checkbox etc. class has this collection. It also has a function which allows me to pass in to the class a list of controls that are dependent on that control, i.e. whose data is filtered by that control. A pointer to these controls (or their class actually) are stored in colDepObjs. Each class also has a public RequeryDepObjs method which can be called. This method... you guessed it... iterates the dependent object collection and calls the requery method of every class in the collection. Thus is 3 combos are dependent on ComboA, calling ComboA.RequeryDependentObjects causes requery ,method of the class for comboB, ComboC, and ComboD. The requery method requeries the actual control (combo or list etc) but also calls its own RequeryDependentObjects method which ... calls the Requery method of any classes in its colDepObj. In order to use this functionality, all I have to do is call a function of a class passing in pointers to the controls that are dependent on this control. Now, when ComboA AfterUpdate fires (remember I sink the events in the control classes) the AfterUpdate calls it's RequeryDependentObjects which starts the ball rolling requerying all dependent objects down the chain. One of the things that has been critical to efficiently handling all this stuff is my framework SysVar table. In my SysVar table I can turn on/off functionality for the entire framework (all forms for example) or for a specific service. As an example I have a sysvar that says "turn on the ZIP/Unzip service classes. I leave them turned off under normal circumstances. However if a specific application needs zip/unzip functionality, I can OVERRIDE the Sysvar by reading framework sysvars out of a table in the FE. Thus for that FE I can turn on/off the zip/unzip service classes, and having done so, I can now just call a property of the framework to get the zip class, call a method and zip up a file. Likewise I can turn on / off a form behavior for a specific application. I can also override form behaviors on a form by form basis so that one form has the behavior while the next does not. Doing things this way allows me to tailor the framework for a specific application, even down to tailoring it for specific forms. I hope this email has started you thinking about frameworks, how you would use them and what you would do with them. If you ever take the time to build one you will never look back. Frameworks are an awesome tool that takes an already RAD environment (Access) and allows you to plop down a skeleton on which you build your app. Imagine being able to tell the client "I can build your skyscraper in 1/10th the time because I already have the skeleton done". Just add walls and windows and move in next week. (Ok, next month). We all know that the data design is a critical piece which I have not addressed here at all, but once that part is done, building forms should be much more standardized than the way many developers do it. I am going to stop here to allow anyone to ask questions, or other developers who have their own frameworks to pipe in with "this is what I do". John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From john at winhaven.net Thu Mar 25 20:40:14 2004 From: john at winhaven.net (John Bartow) Date: Thu, 25 Mar 2004 20:40:14 -0600 Subject: [AccessD] Lookup Fields in Table Design In-Reply-To: <008b01c412d8$a56cbfa0$2a3ca8c0@TEXASSYSTEMS.COM> Message-ID: Already gave points for the corruption issue but this certainly reinforces it. To me doing everything you can to prevent corruption in an Access DB is similar to doing tape backups - chances aren't real good that it will be needed but when bad luck strikes - its worth the effort. 1 point for the second point though - and 1 point for the clever comeback line! :o) -.5 for not changing the subject line Score: nay-sayers 4 / sayers 7.5 -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Ken Ismert Sent: Thursday, March 25, 2004 8:19 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: [AccessD] Framework Discussion - set up question Drew > No need to do what you described. Already knew that. So you acknowledge that errors in the lookup query or the underlying lookup data will cause errors in the front end. That appears to contradict your earlier statement: "But is that going to affect anything using that .mdb as a BE? No.". My point was to show that, in three minutes, you can construct a scenario where lookups in the BE cause FE errors. My errors were contrived, admittedly, but we all know what can happen in production environments. Access is not the most robust data server, even in ideal conditions. Why add elements to your tables that could cause additional errors in production? >If you could LINK the tables in a corrupted database, >you could have also used DAO/ADO to just pull the data. For those of you willing to try my example, you would see otherwise. You just can't simply link and open a query against it. Sure, you could get fancy and write code, under pressure, to try to get your data. Drew might be eager to do that, but I'm not. You do tacitly acknowledge that it "can make recovery difficult". So, why make your life more difficult, when you can get all the benefits of lookups, with none of these drawbacks, by using them in queries? >Second, still have yet to see proof of performance degradation. >Show me proof of that before the 'no lookup' side brings it up again! Oh, very well. Since you contrived the best of all possible examples to support your 'no performance degradation' claim, I wrote some code and contrived the worst: a 200 record main table with a field lookup defined against a 200,000 record lookup table, unindexed. The results were predictable: queries against the reference table, with no lookup defined, ran lightning fast. Queries against the main table with the lookup took about 7 seconds to reach the end of the recordset on my machine. A datasheet form based on the sluggard query was even worse: the underlying query took its 7 seconds, and the form's combo took an additional 3 seconds or so, for truly lousy performance! Nothing's free, Drew. Any form, using a lookup combo, which is based on a query pointing at a table, which is doing its own lookup for that same field, is doing double work. To be fair, opening the querydefs in code produced no noticeable degradation. So did direct SQL. But completely eliminating query-based forms and reports to avoid the performance hits for table lookups is kind of cutting of your nose off despite your face, no? To end, I am NOT opposed to lookups! Just put them in queries or forms, where they more appropriately belong! -Ken -----Original Message----- From: DWUTKA at marlow.com [mailto:DWUTKA at marlow.com] Sent: Thursday, March 25, 2004 4:37 PM To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: RE: [AccessD] Framework Discussion - set up question Two things. No need to do what you described. Already knew that. First thing. AND? If you could LINK the tables in a corrupted database, you could have also used DAO/ADO to just pull the data. Both of which would have completely ignored the Lookup information. OR, you could have just made dummy tables to represent the lookup tables. Lookup doesn't care if the old data is there or not, and it will look for a local table, whether it's linked, or it's native. It also doesn't perform data integrity checks. It doesn't care if old data fits the lookup stuff or not! Now, if you said that Lookups can cause corruption, completely different story. There are a lot of things that can make recovery difficult, that doesn't mean that you shouldn't use code, ban multiple users from your database, or prevent referential integrity! Second, still have yet to see proof of performance degradation. Show me proof of that before the 'no lookup' side brings it up again! Drew -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Ken Ismert Sent: Thursday, March 25, 2004 3:54 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: [AccessD] Framework Discussion - set up question -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com Thu Mar 25 21:02:20 2004 From: jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com (John W. Colby) Date: Thu, 25 Mar 2004 22:02:20 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Framework pseudo-definition In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Data aware control. Good to see someone reading this with that level of concentration. BTW, each of these lectures is a word doc in the zip files on my site. John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of John Bartow Sent: Thursday, March 25, 2004 9:32 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] Framework pseudo-definition John, Been reading these really close as I cut&paste them into Word and printed them out (sitting in the clinic/hospital waiting room the couple of days and had to have something to read other than People and Glamour). So - I'm not trying to be nit picky here or anything just need to clarify a question. If you scroll down and find the series of ??? in the text the question is there. John B. -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of John W. Colby Sent: Wednesday, March 03, 2004 9:05 PM To: AccessD Subject: [AccessD] Framework pseudo-definition Folks, I have thrown out suggestions about how I handle things "using my framework". Robert has asked me what a framework is and how to start one. Unfortunately the word Framework is used by different people for different things, so I will state my own definitions with the warning that I have no intention of arguing with anyone who doesn't like my definition. For my purposes, a framework is a skeleton. Look at a skyscraper being built on the horizon. The framework is all that steel, the elevators, the air conditioning, electrical service, water, sewage etc. ALL of that stuff is necessary regardless of whether you intend to rent one thousand square feet or one million. And once all of that stuff is in place, the rest is just sheetrock, aluminum framing, doors and windows. My framework starts with a class named dclsFW, the framework class. It is instantiated ONE time (a single instance), but inside of that class is the foundation of the rest of the system. It has "class global" variables for other "service" classes. By "class global" I mean private to the class (can only be directly manipulated by the class) but global to the class (can be seen from anywhere in THAT class). By Service classes I mean classes such as my SysVars, Zip/unzip, Encrypt/Decrypt and so forth. These are really "standalone classes", they do not require my framework at all in order to function, but by placing then in my framework class I provide them to any other part of my class. dclsFW instantiates all these service classes when dclsFW initializes, and tears them down when dclsFW terminates. dclsFW also provides property gets to allow other code to access these service classes directly. ALL classes, EVERY SINGLE ONE, have a set of common stuff at the top, a handful of private constants and variables, and init/term events. This stuff is SO common that you can literally cut and paste it from a "template class" into a new class and save that and have a new working class. The framework class dclsFW is just the foundation of the framework, it is NOT the skeleton itself. Because Access is so Form-centric I have an entire skeleton for forms and controls. Thus I have a form class named dclsFrm. This class is instantiated by any form that wants to use my framework (90% or more in my databases) in the form's OnOpen. Each form has a "form global" (dimensioned PUBLIC) variable for the dclsFrm, and instantiates it in OnOpen, then calls the init of dclsFrm passing in a pointer to itself. dclsFrm then stores that pointer to the form in a private variable in it's header. dclsFrm is the foundation of the FORM skeleton if you will, but it uses services provided by dclsFW (the framework foundation class). dclsFrm also SINKS EVERY form event. The private form variable in dclsFrm's header is dimensioned WithEvents and I then built event stubs for every single form event. The ONLY one that doesn't actually function is OnOpen and that is because the class is instantiated in the form's built-in class in OnOpen and therefore by the time dclsFrm loads OnOpen has come and gone. One implication of this is that NO FORM is lightweight since it must have its built-in class to store the pointer to my dclsFrm, and of course an OnOpen to set and initialize dclsFrm. Just as we have a class for the form, EVERY data aware control has a class which I name dclsCtlCbo, dclsCtlTxt, dclsCtlGrp etc. mostly so that all of the control classes will group together in the module window, but also because it makes it obvious that these classes are control classes. dclsFrm has a private function called from its Init() which I call FindControls (very descriptive I know). This function iterates the form's Control Collection. Remember that dclsFrm was passed a pointer to the form by the form itself as it initialized dclsFrm. As I iterate the control collection I have a large case statement that basically says: for each ctl in frm.controls select case ctl.ControlType case "textbox" 'instantiate the text box control class case "combo" 'instantiate the combo class etc end select next ctl Thus as each control is examined I discover the type of the control, I load an instance of the class for that type of control and pass in a pointer to the control. I save all of these control classes into a collection. By the time FindControls is finished I have loaded a class instance for EVERY control on the form (more or less), and each of those control class instances has a pointer to it's control. As I do in the form, I dim the control variable in each control class Withevents and build event sinks for the control events. In this case I am a little more lenient and only build event sinks for the events I actually use. I did this partly because I don't use many of the key events and mouse events (in every control) and didn't want the overhead of those event stubs being called all the time. Now this sounds like a LOT of work, and a LOT of overhead. It is a lot of work, but in fact very little overhead. It turns out that classes load the entire class ONE TIME, then only a new header section (global variables) for each additional instance of that class type. Thus if I load 10 combo class instances, only one loads completely, then just the header of the other 9. All of the code is shared... unless there are static variables in the functions which is handled appropriately such that each class instance has it's own static variables. I ran some timing awhile back on a VERY complex form with dozens of controls. What I discovered is that on an old 100 mhz Pentium of the day, the overhead was one half of one millisecond per class instance, to load each instance. Folks, that is NOTHING compared to the time to load the data for example. And of course that was a sloooooowwwwww computer compared to what we have now. So there you have it. By the time dclsFrm loads, it also loads a class for each data aware class on the form. ???????????????????????????????????????????????????????? Is the sentence abov suppose to read this way or is it supposed to be: By the time dclsFrm loads, it also loads a class for each data aware "control" on the form. ???????????????????????????????????????????????????????? The form's skeleton is built and loaded. Now that I have classes for each control and the form, and these classes sinking all the necessary events, I can add functionality to each class as desired. All of the various things you have heard me discuss in the "in my framework I do..." emails are nothing more than discovering the code required to do this stuff, then putting it out in the classes in the framework. Let's take a working example. Every data aware control may be referenced by a combo, list or subform in the SQL statement or query that loads the data into these objects. Thus a combo can be "filtered" by another combo, or by a check box, or by a text box etc. I call the object being filtered a "dependent object" because its dataset depends on some other control (or controls). In ALL of my classes for data aware controls I have a collection which I call colDepObjs. So every combo, list, textbox, checkbox etc. class has this collection. It also has a function which allows me to pass in to the class a list of controls that are dependent on that control, i.e. whose data is filtered by that control. A pointer to these controls (or their class actually) are stored in colDepObjs. Each class also has a public RequeryDepObjs method which can be called. This method... you guessed it... iterates the dependent object collection and calls the requery method of every class in the collection. Thus is 3 combos are dependent on ComboA, calling ComboA.RequeryDependentObjects causes requery ,method of the class for comboB, ComboC, and ComboD. The requery method requeries the actual control (combo or list etc) but also calls its own RequeryDependentObjects method which ... calls the Requery method of any classes in its colDepObj. In order to use this functionality, all I have to do is call a function of a class passing in pointers to the controls that are dependent on this control. Now, when ComboA AfterUpdate fires (remember I sink the events in the control classes) the AfterUpdate calls it's RequeryDependentObjects which starts the ball rolling requerying all dependent objects down the chain. One of the things that has been critical to efficiently handling all this stuff is my framework SysVar table. In my SysVar table I can turn on/off functionality for the entire framework (all forms for example) or for a specific service. As an example I have a sysvar that says "turn on the ZIP/Unzip service classes. I leave them turned off under normal circumstances. However if a specific application needs zip/unzip functionality, I can OVERRIDE the Sysvar by reading framework sysvars out of a table in the FE. Thus for that FE I can turn on/off the zip/unzip service classes, and having done so, I can now just call a property of the framework to get the zip class, call a method and zip up a file. Likewise I can turn on / off a form behavior for a specific application. I can also override form behaviors on a form by form basis so that one form has the behavior while the next does not. Doing things this way allows me to tailor the framework for a specific application, even down to tailoring it for specific forms. I hope this email has started you thinking about frameworks, how you would use them and what you would do with them. If you ever take the time to build one you will never look back. Frameworks are an awesome tool that takes an already RAD environment (Access) and allows you to plop down a skeleton on which you build your app. Imagine being able to tell the client "I can build your skyscraper in 1/10th the time because I already have the skeleton done". Just add walls and windows and move in next week. (Ok, next month). We all know that the data design is a critical piece which I have not addressed here at all, but once that part is done, building forms should be much more standardized than the way many developers do it. I am going to stop here to allow anyone to ask questions, or other developers who have their own frameworks to pipe in with "this is what I do". John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From john at winhaven.net Thu Mar 25 21:22:44 2004 From: john at winhaven.net (John Bartow) Date: Thu, 25 Mar 2004 21:22:44 -0600 Subject: [AccessD] Framework pseudo-definition In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Thanks for the confirmation. And then AEIEIEE! Slap myself in the head! I thought you had said you were "going" to do that but I never checked the files as I am following it by reading only. It is a ROYAL PITA to cut them all apart and paste them into word - thanks no more of that then. The first day I printed them out I just highlighted all of the emails messages and hit print. Outlook proceeded to print about 100 pages of your dialog at the beginning with Robert and Stuart - but that was all, it just kept printing it over and over and of course I didn't check until I got to the waiting room. Lucky I had my Pocket PC synced with my outlook. Not as easy tor ead but better than Glamour ;o) Oh yeah, wrapping my mind around this stuff is cool. I think to myself sometimes that you must go into a deep trance to come up with some of it. I just find myself thinking WOW! Shamil's DEEP programming is the correct term for sure! I'm sure it builds on itself and that seems to be how you arrived where you are. Makes me wonder too, how many dead ends have you hit on this road? Thanks again, John B. -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of John W. Colby Sent: Thursday, March 25, 2004 9:02 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] Framework pseudo-definition Data aware control. Good to see someone reading this with that level of concentration. BTW, each of these lectures is a word doc in the zip files on my site. John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of John Bartow Sent: Thursday, March 25, 2004 9:32 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] Framework pseudo-definition John, Been reading these really close as I cut&paste them into Word and printed them out (sitting in the clinic/hospital waiting room the couple of days and had to have something to read other than People and Glamour). So - I'm not trying to be nit picky here or anything just need to clarify a question. If you scroll down and find the series of ??? in the text the question is there. John B. -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of John W. Colby Sent: Wednesday, March 03, 2004 9:05 PM To: AccessD Subject: [AccessD] Framework pseudo-definition Folks, I have thrown out suggestions about how I handle things "using my framework". Robert has asked me what a framework is and how to start one. Unfortunately the word Framework is used by different people for different things, so I will state my own definitions with the warning that I have no intention of arguing with anyone who doesn't like my definition. For my purposes, a framework is a skeleton. Look at a skyscraper being built on the horizon. The framework is all that steel, the elevators, the air conditioning, electrical service, water, sewage etc. ALL of that stuff is necessary regardless of whether you intend to rent one thousand square feet or one million. And once all of that stuff is in place, the rest is just sheetrock, aluminum framing, doors and windows. My framework starts with a class named dclsFW, the framework class. It is instantiated ONE time (a single instance), but inside of that class is the foundation of the rest of the system. It has "class global" variables for other "service" classes. By "class global" I mean private to the class (can only be directly manipulated by the class) but global to the class (can be seen from anywhere in THAT class). By Service classes I mean classes such as my SysVars, Zip/unzip, Encrypt/Decrypt and so forth. These are really "standalone classes", they do not require my framework at all in order to function, but by placing then in my framework class I provide them to any other part of my class. dclsFW instantiates all these service classes when dclsFW initializes, and tears them down when dclsFW terminates. dclsFW also provides property gets to allow other code to access these service classes directly. ALL classes, EVERY SINGLE ONE, have a set of common stuff at the top, a handful of private constants and variables, and init/term events. This stuff is SO common that you can literally cut and paste it from a "template class" into a new class and save that and have a new working class. The framework class dclsFW is just the foundation of the framework, it is NOT the skeleton itself. Because Access is so Form-centric I have an entire skeleton for forms and controls. Thus I have a form class named dclsFrm. This class is instantiated by any form that wants to use my framework (90% or more in my databases) in the form's OnOpen. Each form has a "form global" (dimensioned PUBLIC) variable for the dclsFrm, and instantiates it in OnOpen, then calls the init of dclsFrm passing in a pointer to itself. dclsFrm then stores that pointer to the form in a private variable in it's header. dclsFrm is the foundation of the FORM skeleton if you will, but it uses services provided by dclsFW (the framework foundation class). dclsFrm also SINKS EVERY form event. The private form variable in dclsFrm's header is dimensioned WithEvents and I then built event stubs for every single form event. The ONLY one that doesn't actually function is OnOpen and that is because the class is instantiated in the form's built-in class in OnOpen and therefore by the time dclsFrm loads OnOpen has come and gone. One implication of this is that NO FORM is lightweight since it must have its built-in class to store the pointer to my dclsFrm, and of course an OnOpen to set and initialize dclsFrm. Just as we have a class for the form, EVERY data aware control has a class which I name dclsCtlCbo, dclsCtlTxt, dclsCtlGrp etc. mostly so that all of the control classes will group together in the module window, but also because it makes it obvious that these classes are control classes. dclsFrm has a private function called from its Init() which I call FindControls (very descriptive I know). This function iterates the form's Control Collection. Remember that dclsFrm was passed a pointer to the form by the form itself as it initialized dclsFrm. As I iterate the control collection I have a large case statement that basically says: for each ctl in frm.controls select case ctl.ControlType case "textbox" 'instantiate the text box control class case "combo" 'instantiate the combo class etc end select next ctl Thus as each control is examined I discover the type of the control, I load an instance of the class for that type of control and pass in a pointer to the control. I save all of these control classes into a collection. By the time FindControls is finished I have loaded a class instance for EVERY control on the form (more or less), and each of those control class instances has a pointer to it's control. As I do in the form, I dim the control variable in each control class Withevents and build event sinks for the control events. In this case I am a little more lenient and only build event sinks for the events I actually use. I did this partly because I don't use many of the key events and mouse events (in every control) and didn't want the overhead of those event stubs being called all the time. Now this sounds like a LOT of work, and a LOT of overhead. It is a lot of work, but in fact very little overhead. It turns out that classes load the entire class ONE TIME, then only a new header section (global variables) for each additional instance of that class type. Thus if I load 10 combo class instances, only one loads completely, then just the header of the other 9. All of the code is shared... unless there are static variables in the functions which is handled appropriately such that each class instance has it's own static variables. I ran some timing awhile back on a VERY complex form with dozens of controls. What I discovered is that on an old 100 mhz Pentium of the day, the overhead was one half of one millisecond per class instance, to load each instance. Folks, that is NOTHING compared to the time to load the data for example. And of course that was a sloooooowwwwww computer compared to what we have now. So there you have it. By the time dclsFrm loads, it also loads a class for each data aware class on the form. ???????????????????????????????????????????????????????? Is the sentence abov suppose to read this way or is it supposed to be: By the time dclsFrm loads, it also loads a class for each data aware "control" on the form. ???????????????????????????????????????????????????????? The form's skeleton is built and loaded. Now that I have classes for each control and the form, and these classes sinking all the necessary events, I can add functionality to each class as desired. All of the various things you have heard me discuss in the "in my framework I do..." emails are nothing more than discovering the code required to do this stuff, then putting it out in the classes in the framework. Let's take a working example. Every data aware control may be referenced by a combo, list or subform in the SQL statement or query that loads the data into these objects. Thus a combo can be "filtered" by another combo, or by a check box, or by a text box etc. I call the object being filtered a "dependent object" because its dataset depends on some other control (or controls). In ALL of my classes for data aware controls I have a collection which I call colDepObjs. So every combo, list, textbox, checkbox etc. class has this collection. It also has a function which allows me to pass in to the class a list of controls that are dependent on that control, i.e. whose data is filtered by that control. A pointer to these controls (or their class actually) are stored in colDepObjs. Each class also has a public RequeryDepObjs method which can be called. This method... you guessed it... iterates the dependent object collection and calls the requery method of every class in the collection. Thus is 3 combos are dependent on ComboA, calling ComboA.RequeryDependentObjects causes requery ,method of the class for comboB, ComboC, and ComboD. The requery method requeries the actual control (combo or list etc) but also calls its own RequeryDependentObjects method which ... calls the Requery method of any classes in its colDepObj. In order to use this functionality, all I have to do is call a function of a class passing in pointers to the controls that are dependent on this control. Now, when ComboA AfterUpdate fires (remember I sink the events in the control classes) the AfterUpdate calls it's RequeryDependentObjects which starts the ball rolling requerying all dependent objects down the chain. One of the things that has been critical to efficiently handling all this stuff is my framework SysVar table. In my SysVar table I can turn on/off functionality for the entire framework (all forms for example) or for a specific service. As an example I have a sysvar that says "turn on the ZIP/Unzip service classes. I leave them turned off under normal circumstances. However if a specific application needs zip/unzip functionality, I can OVERRIDE the Sysvar by reading framework sysvars out of a table in the FE. Thus for that FE I can turn on/off the zip/unzip service classes, and having done so, I can now just call a property of the framework to get the zip class, call a method and zip up a file. Likewise I can turn on / off a form behavior for a specific application. I can also override form behaviors on a form by form basis so that one form has the behavior while the next does not. Doing things this way allows me to tailor the framework for a specific application, even down to tailoring it for specific forms. I hope this email has started you thinking about frameworks, how you would use them and what you would do with them. If you ever take the time to build one you will never look back. Frameworks are an awesome tool that takes an already RAD environment (Access) and allows you to plop down a skeleton on which you build your app. Imagine being able to tell the client "I can build your skyscraper in 1/10th the time because I already have the skeleton done". Just add walls and windows and move in next week. (Ok, next month). We all know that the data design is a critical piece which I have not addressed here at all, but once that part is done, building forms should be much more standardized than the way many developers do it. I am going to stop here to allow anyone to ask questions, or other developers who have their own frameworks to pipe in with "this is what I do". John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com Thu Mar 25 22:01:05 2004 From: jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com (John W. Colby) Date: Thu, 25 Mar 2004 23:01:05 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Framework pseudo-definition In-Reply-To: Message-ID: I hope you're waiting in hospitals isn't something bad happening in your life! >Oh yeah, wrapping my mind around this stuff is cool. I think to myself sometimes that you must go into a deep trance to come up with some of it. I just find myself thinking WOW! In fact most of it just comes bit by bit, piece by piece. As you absorb one thing that allows the next piece to fall into place and slowly over a loooong time (at least for me) you make significant progress. I think the sequence in my case was Withevents (thanks again Shamil), which required classes. Classes then allowed me to start encapsulating systems, which led to control classes and a form class, which led to the control scanner. Additionally I found several very handy service classes ready built by other giants of our community including Zip/Unzip and FTP, as well as MD5 encryption, etc. Many options to turn on then led to SysVars which allowed me to start / stop service classes, turn on/off options generally and make choices of behaviors, which led to overrides in the FE. All of the above then led to a base Framework class to co-ordinate the whole thing. One of the "arguments" against doing this was that "I spend so much time building the system itself". In a sense this is true, it has been a significant development effort over many years, and in fact my V2 framework was a couple of months work in the evenings to port my non Withevent/Class V1 framework to Withevents / classes. You really can't use a framework until a certain amount of it is finished - the form class, the control classes (though they can be added as needed) and then a base amount of functionality within these classes. After that it just snowballs. Having a class for combos, whenever you find a common combo behavior you now have a place to go to add that behavior. >From that time on it is just there for the next time. And so forth. I tend to design the behaviors out in the form class because it simplifies getting it working, troubleshooting etc. Once it does what I want I just cut and paste to the control or form class as necessary. Because the form class sinks (or can sink) all form events and the control class can sink all control events, the code usually really is just a cut and paste, use find and replace within that small set of code to replace form ME! references with mfrm! references and it just goes. After living with this stuff for years it is just inconceivable to me to not do this. The closest anyone (that is speaking up) comes to this is Jurgen with his function calls directly from the event properties. While the net result may be fairly similar the implementation and the degree of effort at the application level is not. I do not have to worry about always going somewhere to get a control or form with all these function calls programmed in. In fact if I did it that way I would very soon write a wizard to set these properties for me! Anyway... I truly do understand that this stuff is not something absorbed overnight. One of the reasons I decided to write this lecture series was to provide working examples and code to allow anyone interested to see that while the finished system is indeed reasonably complex, because we are using classes to encapsulate components, the whole breaks down into smaller pieces that can be understood fairly easily. My hope is that the years it took me to puzzle this stuff out can be compressed into months with a little help from someone like myself that has already learned it. Withevents is soooo easy if you have a few simple examples. Classes are likewise easy with simple examples. Learn those two pieces and the "foundation" is laid. Whether you are building a beach cottage or a casino in Atlantic City, you first have to understand foundations. John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of John Bartow Sent: Thursday, March 25, 2004 10:23 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] Framework pseudo-definition Thanks for the confirmation. And then AEIEIEE! Slap myself in the head! I thought you had said you were "going" to do that but I never checked the files as I am following it by reading only. It is a ROYAL PITA to cut them all apart and paste them into word - thanks no more of that then. The first day I printed them out I just highlighted all of the emails messages and hit print. Outlook proceeded to print about 100 pages of your dialog at the beginning with Robert and Stuart - but that was all, it just kept printing it over and over and of course I didn't check until I got to the waiting room. Lucky I had my Pocket PC synced with my outlook. Not as easy tor ead but better than Glamour ;o) Oh yeah, wrapping my mind around this stuff is cool. I think to myself sometimes that you must go into a deep trance to come up with some of it. I just find myself thinking WOW! Shamil's DEEP programming is the correct term for sure! I'm sure it builds on itself and that seems to be how you arrived where you are. Makes me wonder too, how many dead ends have you hit on this road? Thanks again, John B. -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of John W. Colby Sent: Thursday, March 25, 2004 9:02 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] Framework pseudo-definition Data aware control. Good to see someone reading this with that level of concentration. BTW, each of these lectures is a word doc in the zip files on my site. John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of John Bartow Sent: Thursday, March 25, 2004 9:32 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] Framework pseudo-definition John, Been reading these really close as I cut&paste them into Word and printed them out (sitting in the clinic/hospital waiting room the couple of days and had to have something to read other than People and Glamour). So - I'm not trying to be nit picky here or anything just need to clarify a question. If you scroll down and find the series of ??? in the text the question is there. John B. -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of John W. Colby Sent: Wednesday, March 03, 2004 9:05 PM To: AccessD Subject: [AccessD] Framework pseudo-definition Folks, I have thrown out suggestions about how I handle things "using my framework". Robert has asked me what a framework is and how to start one. Unfortunately the word Framework is used by different people for different things, so I will state my own definitions with the warning that I have no intention of arguing with anyone who doesn't like my definition. For my purposes, a framework is a skeleton. Look at a skyscraper being built on the horizon. The framework is all that steel, the elevators, the air conditioning, electrical service, water, sewage etc. ALL of that stuff is necessary regardless of whether you intend to rent one thousand square feet or one million. And once all of that stuff is in place, the rest is just sheetrock, aluminum framing, doors and windows. My framework starts with a class named dclsFW, the framework class. It is instantiated ONE time (a single instance), but inside of that class is the foundation of the rest of the system. It has "class global" variables for other "service" classes. By "class global" I mean private to the class (can only be directly manipulated by the class) but global to the class (can be seen from anywhere in THAT class). By Service classes I mean classes such as my SysVars, Zip/unzip, Encrypt/Decrypt and so forth. These are really "standalone classes", they do not require my framework at all in order to function, but by placing then in my framework class I provide them to any other part of my class. dclsFW instantiates all these service classes when dclsFW initializes, and tears them down when dclsFW terminates. dclsFW also provides property gets to allow other code to access these service classes directly. ALL classes, EVERY SINGLE ONE, have a set of common stuff at the top, a handful of private constants and variables, and init/term events. This stuff is SO common that you can literally cut and paste it from a "template class" into a new class and save that and have a new working class. The framework class dclsFW is just the foundation of the framework, it is NOT the skeleton itself. Because Access is so Form-centric I have an entire skeleton for forms and controls. Thus I have a form class named dclsFrm. This class is instantiated by any form that wants to use my framework (90% or more in my databases) in the form's OnOpen. Each form has a "form global" (dimensioned PUBLIC) variable for the dclsFrm, and instantiates it in OnOpen, then calls the init of dclsFrm passing in a pointer to itself. dclsFrm then stores that pointer to the form in a private variable in it's header. dclsFrm is the foundation of the FORM skeleton if you will, but it uses services provided by dclsFW (the framework foundation class). dclsFrm also SINKS EVERY form event. The private form variable in dclsFrm's header is dimensioned WithEvents and I then built event stubs for every single form event. The ONLY one that doesn't actually function is OnOpen and that is because the class is instantiated in the form's built-in class in OnOpen and therefore by the time dclsFrm loads OnOpen has come and gone. One implication of this is that NO FORM is lightweight since it must have its built-in class to store the pointer to my dclsFrm, and of course an OnOpen to set and initialize dclsFrm. Just as we have a class for the form, EVERY data aware control has a class which I name dclsCtlCbo, dclsCtlTxt, dclsCtlGrp etc. mostly so that all of the control classes will group together in the module window, but also because it makes it obvious that these classes are control classes. dclsFrm has a private function called from its Init() which I call FindControls (very descriptive I know). This function iterates the form's Control Collection. Remember that dclsFrm was passed a pointer to the form by the form itself as it initialized dclsFrm. As I iterate the control collection I have a large case statement that basically says: for each ctl in frm.controls select case ctl.ControlType case "textbox" 'instantiate the text box control class case "combo" 'instantiate the combo class etc end select next ctl Thus as each control is examined I discover the type of the control, I load an instance of the class for that type of control and pass in a pointer to the control. I save all of these control classes into a collection. By the time FindControls is finished I have loaded a class instance for EVERY control on the form (more or less), and each of those control class instances has a pointer to it's control. As I do in the form, I dim the control variable in each control class Withevents and build event sinks for the control events. In this case I am a little more lenient and only build event sinks for the events I actually use. I did this partly because I don't use many of the key events and mouse events (in every control) and didn't want the overhead of those event stubs being called all the time. Now this sounds like a LOT of work, and a LOT of overhead. It is a lot of work, but in fact very little overhead. It turns out that classes load the entire class ONE TIME, then only a new header section (global variables) for each additional instance of that class type. Thus if I load 10 combo class instances, only one loads completely, then just the header of the other 9. All of the code is shared... unless there are static variables in the functions which is handled appropriately such that each class instance has it's own static variables. I ran some timing awhile back on a VERY complex form with dozens of controls. What I discovered is that on an old 100 mhz Pentium of the day, the overhead was one half of one millisecond per class instance, to load each instance. Folks, that is NOTHING compared to the time to load the data for example. And of course that was a sloooooowwwwww computer compared to what we have now. So there you have it. By the time dclsFrm loads, it also loads a class for each data aware class on the form. ???????????????????????????????????????????????????????? Is the sentence abov suppose to read this way or is it supposed to be: By the time dclsFrm loads, it also loads a class for each data aware "control" on the form. ???????????????????????????????????????????????????????? The form's skeleton is built and loaded. Now that I have classes for each control and the form, and these classes sinking all the necessary events, I can add functionality to each class as desired. All of the various things you have heard me discuss in the "in my framework I do..." emails are nothing more than discovering the code required to do this stuff, then putting it out in the classes in the framework. Let's take a working example. Every data aware control may be referenced by a combo, list or subform in the SQL statement or query that loads the data into these objects. Thus a combo can be "filtered" by another combo, or by a check box, or by a text box etc. I call the object being filtered a "dependent object" because its dataset depends on some other control (or controls). In ALL of my classes for data aware controls I have a collection which I call colDepObjs. So every combo, list, textbox, checkbox etc. class has this collection. It also has a function which allows me to pass in to the class a list of controls that are dependent on that control, i.e. whose data is filtered by that control. A pointer to these controls (or their class actually) are stored in colDepObjs. Each class also has a public RequeryDepObjs method which can be called. This method... you guessed it... iterates the dependent object collection and calls the requery method of every class in the collection. Thus is 3 combos are dependent on ComboA, calling ComboA.RequeryDependentObjects causes requery ,method of the class for comboB, ComboC, and ComboD. The requery method requeries the actual control (combo or list etc) but also calls its own RequeryDependentObjects method which ... calls the Requery method of any classes in its colDepObj. In order to use this functionality, all I have to do is call a function of a class passing in pointers to the controls that are dependent on this control. Now, when ComboA AfterUpdate fires (remember I sink the events in the control classes) the AfterUpdate calls it's RequeryDependentObjects which starts the ball rolling requerying all dependent objects down the chain. One of the things that has been critical to efficiently handling all this stuff is my framework SysVar table. In my SysVar table I can turn on/off functionality for the entire framework (all forms for example) or for a specific service. As an example I have a sysvar that says "turn on the ZIP/Unzip service classes. I leave them turned off under normal circumstances. However if a specific application needs zip/unzip functionality, I can OVERRIDE the Sysvar by reading framework sysvars out of a table in the FE. Thus for that FE I can turn on/off the zip/unzip service classes, and having done so, I can now just call a property of the framework to get the zip class, call a method and zip up a file. Likewise I can turn on / off a form behavior for a specific application. I can also override form behaviors on a form by form basis so that one form has the behavior while the next does not. Doing things this way allows me to tailor the framework for a specific application, even down to tailoring it for specific forms. I hope this email has started you thinking about frameworks, how you would use them and what you would do with them. If you ever take the time to build one you will never look back. Frameworks are an awesome tool that takes an already RAD environment (Access) and allows you to plop down a skeleton on which you build your app. Imagine being able to tell the client "I can build your skyscraper in 1/10th the time because I already have the skeleton done". Just add walls and windows and move in next week. (Ok, next month). We all know that the data design is a critical piece which I have not addressed here at all, but once that part is done, building forms should be much more standardized than the way many developers do it. I am going to stop here to allow anyone to ask questions, or other developers who have their own frameworks to pipe in with "this is what I do". John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From DWUTKA at marlow.com Fri Mar 26 01:12:29 2004 From: DWUTKA at marlow.com (DWUTKA at marlow.com) Date: Fri, 26 Mar 2004 01:12:29 -0600 Subject: [AccessD] Framework Discussion - set up question Message-ID: <2F8793082E00D4119A1700B0D0216BF8022279CC@main2.marlow.com> Ken, can you send me your 'sample' database, where you see the performance degradation. Not that I don't believe you, but I have done everything you said, and have see NO degradation. I want to make sure we are on the same page before this gets uglier. As to stuff that is already ugly, I still don't understand your point with errors in the Front End. Practically ANYTHING in Access can produce an error for you, if done WRONG. So saying 'I'm not going to do something, because if it's done wrong, then I'll get errors', is basically saying you'll never do anything! As for the corruption issue, yes, I would definitely try using code to recover data, if possible. There's nothing complex about it. Looping through a recordset is one of the basic coding techniques! Drew -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Sent: 3/25/04 8:18 PM Subject: RE: [AccessD] Framework Discussion - set up question Drew > No need to do what you described. Already knew that. So you acknowledge that errors in the lookup query or the underlying lookup data will cause errors in the front end. That appears to contradict your earlier statement: "But is that going to affect anything using that .mdb as a BE? No.". My point was to show that, in three minutes, you can construct a scenario where lookups in the BE cause FE errors. My errors were contrived, admittedly, but we all know what can happen in production environments. Access is not the most robust data server, even in ideal conditions. Why add elements to your tables that could cause additional errors in production? >If you could LINK the tables in a corrupted database, >you could have also used DAO/ADO to just pull the data. For those of you willing to try my example, you would see otherwise. You just can't simply link and open a query against it. Sure, you could get fancy and write code, under pressure, to try to get your data. Drew might be eager to do that, but I'm not. You do tacitly acknowledge that it "can make recovery difficult". So, why make your life more difficult, when you can get all the benefits of lookups, with none of these drawbacks, by using them in queries? >Second, still have yet to see proof of performance degradation. >Show me proof of that before the 'no lookup' side brings it up again! Oh, very well. Since you contrived the best of all possible examples to support your 'no performance degradation' claim, I wrote some code and contrived the worst: a 200 record main table with a field lookup defined against a 200,000 record lookup table, unindexed. The results were predictable: queries against the reference table, with no lookup defined, ran lightning fast. Queries against the main table with the lookup took about 7 seconds to reach the end of the recordset on my machine. A datasheet form based on the sluggard query was even worse: the underlying query took its 7 seconds, and the form's combo took an additional 3 seconds or so, for truly lousy performance! Nothing's free, Drew. Any form, using a lookup combo, which is based on a query pointing at a table, which is doing its own lookup for that same field, is doing double work. To be fair, opening the querydefs in code produced no noticeable degradation. So did direct SQL. But completely eliminating query-based forms and reports to avoid the performance hits for table lookups is kind of cutting of your nose off despite your face, no? To end, I am NOT opposed to lookups! Just put them in queries or forms, where they more appropriately belong! -Ken -----Original Message----- From: DWUTKA at marlow.com [mailto:DWUTKA at marlow.com] Sent: Thursday, March 25, 2004 4:37 PM To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: RE: [AccessD] Framework Discussion - set up question Two things. No need to do what you described. Already knew that. First thing. AND? If you could LINK the tables in a corrupted database, you could have also used DAO/ADO to just pull the data. Both of which would have completely ignored the Lookup information. OR, you could have just made dummy tables to represent the lookup tables. Lookup doesn't care if the old data is there or not, and it will look for a local table, whether it's linked, or it's native. It also doesn't perform data integrity checks. It doesn't care if old data fits the lookup stuff or not! Now, if you said that Lookups can cause corruption, completely different story. There are a lot of things that can make recovery difficult, that doesn't mean that you shouldn't use code, ban multiple users from your database, or prevent referential integrity! Second, still have yet to see proof of performance degradation. Show me proof of that before the 'no lookup' side brings it up again! Drew -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Ken Ismert Sent: Thursday, March 25, 2004 3:54 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: [AccessD] Framework Discussion - set up question -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From DWUTKA at marlow.com Fri Mar 26 01:16:40 2004 From: DWUTKA at marlow.com (DWUTKA at marlow.com) Date: Fri, 26 Mar 2004 01:16:40 -0600 Subject: [AccessD] Lookup Fields in Table Design Message-ID: <2F8793082E00D4119A1700B0D0216BF8022279CD@main2.marlow.com> John, the points are cute, but the problem is that Lookup fields do NOT cause corruption. He said they made it more difficult to fix. There are a TON of things (that everyone uses) that make repairing corruption more difficult. Essentially, if you make a blank database, and put it on CD, you stand the best chances of recovering that database when it's completely blank, and never used. Once you start adding data, code, objecs, etc, you are adding things which can complicate a recovery. So it's a no pointer / moot point, to say that lookup's made a particular recovery difficult. If there had been a bit of error handling code, which got in the way of recovering a database, would you say 'I'll never use Error Handling code, because it made my life difficult once'? I didn't think so. Drew -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Sent: 3/25/04 8:40 PM Subject: RE: [AccessD] Lookup Fields in Table Design Already gave points for the corruption issue but this certainly reinforces it. To me doing everything you can to prevent corruption in an Access DB is similar to doing tape backups - chances aren't real good that it will be needed but when bad luck strikes - its worth the effort. 1 point for the second point though - and 1 point for the clever comeback line! :o) -.5 for not changing the subject line Score: nay-sayers 4 / sayers 7.5 -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Ken Ismert Sent: Thursday, March 25, 2004 8:19 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: [AccessD] Framework Discussion - set up question Drew > No need to do what you described. Already knew that. So you acknowledge that errors in the lookup query or the underlying lookup data will cause errors in the front end. That appears to contradict your earlier statement: "But is that going to affect anything using that .mdb as a BE? No.". My point was to show that, in three minutes, you can construct a scenario where lookups in the BE cause FE errors. My errors were contrived, admittedly, but we all know what can happen in production environments. Access is not the most robust data server, even in ideal conditions. Why add elements to your tables that could cause additional errors in production? >If you could LINK the tables in a corrupted database, >you could have also used DAO/ADO to just pull the data. For those of you willing to try my example, you would see otherwise. You just can't simply link and open a query against it. Sure, you could get fancy and write code, under pressure, to try to get your data. Drew might be eager to do that, but I'm not. You do tacitly acknowledge that it "can make recovery difficult". So, why make your life more difficult, when you can get all the benefits of lookups, with none of these drawbacks, by using them in queries? >Second, still have yet to see proof of performance degradation. >Show me proof of that before the 'no lookup' side brings it up again! Oh, very well. Since you contrived the best of all possible examples to support your 'no performance degradation' claim, I wrote some code and contrived the worst: a 200 record main table with a field lookup defined against a 200,000 record lookup table, unindexed. The results were predictable: queries against the reference table, with no lookup defined, ran lightning fast. Queries against the main table with the lookup took about 7 seconds to reach the end of the recordset on my machine. A datasheet form based on the sluggard query was even worse: the underlying query took its 7 seconds, and the form's combo took an additional 3 seconds or so, for truly lousy performance! Nothing's free, Drew. Any form, using a lookup combo, which is based on a query pointing at a table, which is doing its own lookup for that same field, is doing double work. To be fair, opening the querydefs in code produced no noticeable degradation. So did direct SQL. But completely eliminating query-based forms and reports to avoid the performance hits for table lookups is kind of cutting of your nose off despite your face, no? To end, I am NOT opposed to lookups! Just put them in queries or forms, where they more appropriately belong! -Ken -----Original Message----- From: DWUTKA at marlow.com [mailto:DWUTKA at marlow.com] Sent: Thursday, March 25, 2004 4:37 PM To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: RE: [AccessD] Framework Discussion - set up question Two things. No need to do what you described. Already knew that. First thing. AND? If you could LINK the tables in a corrupted database, you could have also used DAO/ADO to just pull the data. Both of which would have completely ignored the Lookup information. OR, you could have just made dummy tables to represent the lookup tables. Lookup doesn't care if the old data is there or not, and it will look for a local table, whether it's linked, or it's native. It also doesn't perform data integrity checks. It doesn't care if old data fits the lookup stuff or not! Now, if you said that Lookups can cause corruption, completely different story. There are a lot of things that can make recovery difficult, that doesn't mean that you shouldn't use code, ban multiple users from your database, or prevent referential integrity! Second, still have yet to see proof of performance degradation. Show me proof of that before the 'no lookup' side brings it up again! Drew -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Ken Ismert Sent: Thursday, March 25, 2004 3:54 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: [AccessD] Framework Discussion - set up question -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From my.lists at verizon.net Fri Mar 26 01:35:56 2004 From: my.lists at verizon.net (Francisco H Tapia) Date: Thu, 25 Mar 2004 23:35:56 -0800 Subject: [AccessD] Framework Discussion - set up question In-Reply-To: <2F8793082E00D4119A1700B0D0216BF8022279BE@main2.marlow.com> References: <2F8793082E00D4119A1700B0D0216BF8022279BE@main2.marlow.com> Message-ID: <4063DD5C.7070906@verizon.net> DWUTKA at marlow.com said the following on 3/25/2004 1:58 PM: > Okay, for number one, let's drop that. It's a pointless argument. If you > want to argue that using Lookups adds confusion, then I would REALLY hate to > see your table designs. Have you ever tried to explain a many to many table > to a 'user'? Trust me, they'll pick up what a 'lookup' field does a LOT > faster. And if you aren't using things like many to many tables, because > users could get confused, then you are not normalizing your data. See how > this is a BAD argument to try to defend against? I'll ask this because you brought it up, but how is my comment any indication of any lack of normalization on my database design? I'll tell you... it has NO BEARING on my database design. I don't care when a user is confused about database design. I don't explain to my users about lookup tables, that's not my job. I also don't try to explain Boyce-Codd 3rd Normal form. These are very dry and pointless topics to bring up w/ your users... I also don't particularly approve of allowing end users to write their own ad-hoc queries for that matter.. this is because they can join something so badly that it causes unnecessary page locks and system performance overall. If you do, then to each their own. Where I'm working at now, it has been now long accepted that certain users will write their own queries... that has all stopped w/ our recent upgrade to SqlServer2000. I've blocked all direct access to tables and many views. all they are allowed to do is run sprocs (Stored Procedures). So what? why should I expalin the concept of a temporary table to my end users? or how to use a server sided cursor? hmm? I don't care what confuses them about database design. It would be diffrent if they were underlings and I had to make sure they were up to speed so they could take over the project... they are not.. they are users of my and my co-worker's database system. That's not to say I don't appreciate or even give out helpful tips for those that are learing.. but I won't have them break down a system I'm responsible for. Lastly... I DO work on a plethora of databases.. and on occasion I do take in contract work (tho not lately). Adding Lookup tables adds a level of non-sense imnsho. Sure they're great if I only worked on a handful of db's. And it's not like I can't figure out what the previous developer did... you see... there is a bit of un-needed confusion.... > Now for number 2. You can't hack a feature with a 'feature creep' agrument. > Feature creep can affect anything in a bad way, however, if you are getting > paid by the hour, or are doing contract work, Feature creep means more > money! LOL well to each their own I guess :| -- -Francisco From my.lists at verizon.net Fri Mar 26 01:36:42 2004 From: my.lists at verizon.net (Francisco H Tapia) Date: Thu, 25 Mar 2004 23:36:42 -0800 Subject: [AccessD] Framework Discussion - set up question In-Reply-To: <20040325221619.UXAT17649.imf25aec.mail.bellsouth.net@SUSANONE> References: <20040325221619.UXAT17649.imf25aec.mail.bellsouth.net@SUSANONE> Message-ID: <4063DD8A.80308@verizon.net> Susan Harkins said the following on 3/25/2004 2:16 PM: > I want to know why he's changing the table names? ;) Oh my gosh, what a > horrible mess you might create all the way down the line -- not just with > lookup fields. who's changing names? -- -Francisco From gustav at cactus.dk Fri Mar 26 03:30:55 2004 From: gustav at cactus.dk (Gustav Brock) Date: Fri, 26 Mar 2004 10:30:55 +0100 Subject: [AccessD] OT: Migration to SQL Server - sort of In-Reply-To: <40638618.8080805@shaw.ca> References: <000301c411aa$1d158a80$6401a8c0@COA3> <40638618.8080805@shaw.ca> Message-ID: <1626260251.20040326103055@cactus.dk> Hi Marty Interesting article - recommended reading for those getting in touch with "information islands". /gustav > Just a head's up with these types of GUID keys, they may start to > become, a lot more commonly used. > I was just reading a paper and methodology developed by IBM Global and > the Alberta Government for implemention of privacy legislation across > databases. > In Canada this would address legislation like Personal Information > Protection and Electronic Documents Act, also known by the awkward > acronym PIPEDA, or something like HIPPA in the US, there is similar > legislation in UK and EU. > http://sharp.gov.ab.ca/ppa/documents/AlbertaPrivacyArchitectureOverview.pdf > The method is a Privacy Taxonomy which provides a comprehensive scheme > to consistently label privacy-relevant objects and actions in an IT environment > with an an Identity Key Scheme based on hidden Meaningless But Unique > Numbers (MBUNs) to be used over multiple databases in an organization. > These MBUN's are going to be long unique keys possibly a GUID. > They will map things like a SIN and Drivers license into a MBUN so > tables can be accessed or aggregated without giving access to an exact > individuals records. >>Not exactly migration, but biggest issue I've had lately with Access >>FE's to SQL 2k is that Access can't deal with GUID's. You *must* make >>all the queries that join on these types of fields into views because >>Access can't relaibly make these joins. From gustav at cactus.dk Fri Mar 26 03:53:32 2004 From: gustav at cactus.dk (Gustav Brock) Date: Fri, 26 Mar 2004 10:53:32 +0100 Subject: [AccessD] I wrote a program, about a year ago, and it contains two unbound reports. Each of these reports has In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <1597617052.20040326105332@cactus.dk> Hi John It has been said that using DCount("*", ...) is slightly faster than counting a specific field. I haven't run any tests on this to confirm it but with 83 lookups it could be worth testing. /gustav > I wrote a program, about a year ago, and it contains two unbound > reports. Each of these reports has 83 calculated (i.e. statistical) > fields on them--they are actually pretty identical with exception that > one is a quarterly and the other is a cumulative calculation. > The calculations are mostly similar, for example: > =DCount("[xAge]","qryOver60-Cumulative","[XAge] >= 60") > =DCount("[xAge]","qryOver60-SC-Cumulative","[XAge] >= 60 And > [fndCSE] = True And [logLowInc] = True") > =DCount("[Legal]","qryPartIII-SC","[Legal] = True") > The database (the main table anyhow) has just shy of 7000 records in > it. And it seems like all of the sudden, it is taking quite a bit longer > for the reports to come up and longer to print once they do. I went in > to look at something else today and noticed this. I asked them, if it > seemed slower--I thought maybe it was me--and they agreed. > Did I do something wrong in setting this up? Should I have made 83 > queries instead? Is it the DCount function (I remember hearing something > on aggregate functions be slow once--maybe)? > This is an A2K program--my first one (I only have about 10 or so A97s > out there). > There not complaining yet, but I might be, if I were them, so I would > like to head it off, if I can. The state came in their office and they, > "were very impressed with [the] program," which is another reason I'd > like to keep on it--maybe they'd be interested further. > Thanks for any advise you can give me! > Gotta go to a meeting--see y'all! > John W Clark From ssharkins at bellsouth.net Fri Mar 26 08:00:29 2004 From: ssharkins at bellsouth.net (Susan Harkins) Date: Fri, 26 Mar 2004 09:00:29 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Framework Discussion - set up question In-Reply-To: <4063DD8A.80308@verizon.net> Message-ID: <20040326140024.VIXD1709.imf20aec.mail.bellsouth.net@SUSANONE> I don't remember. ;) Someone mentioned changing the names of linked tables as a means of screwing things up if the original tables had lookups. Susan H. Susan Harkins said the following on 3/25/2004 2:16 PM: > I want to know why he's changing the table names? ;) Oh my gosh, what > a horrible mess you might create all the way down the line -- not just > with lookup fields. who's changing names? From Mark.Mitsules at ngc.com Fri Mar 26 09:00:29 2004 From: Mark.Mitsules at ngc.com (Mitsules, Mark S. (Newport News)) Date: Fri, 26 Mar 2004 10:00:29 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] A2K2: Hook into Exchange Address Book Message-ID: I work for a sizable company (~18,000?). We utilize an exchange field called alias to hold the userID of employees. What is the most efficient method of validating data entry against a linked exchange address book? As a test I tried running a simple query, 4 fields, with my last name set as the criteria. It was unacceptably slow, verging on the assumption that Access had "locked-up". A ctrl+break stopped the loop but the query had actually returned the single record. How can I speed this up? TIA, Mark From paul.hartland at fsmail.net Fri Mar 26 09:55:43 2004 From: paul.hartland at fsmail.net (paul.hartland at fsmail.net) Date: Fri, 26 Mar 2004 16:55:43 +0100 (CET) Subject: [AccessD] Access & Word Documents Message-ID: <4867326.1080316543038.JavaMail.www@wwinf3006> To all, We currently have an Access Database one part of which contains Employee records. We also have several Word document templates (i.e. Holiday & Sickness forms etc). What we would like to be able to do is insert the employees name and address etc into the Word templates. How would I go about putting the employees address directly into the word document at a specific point. Has anyone any samples that I may view etc. Thanks in advance for all your help. Paul Hartland Freeserve AnyTime - HALF PRICE for the first 3 months - Save ?7.50 a month www.freeserve.com/anytime From Bryan_Carbonnell at cbc.ca Fri Mar 26 10:03:42 2004 From: Bryan_Carbonnell at cbc.ca (Bryan Carbonnell) Date: Fri, 26 Mar 2004 11:03:42 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Access & Word Documents Message-ID: Paul, The July 2002 issue of DBAs M2M has a couple of articles dealing with using Word and Access together. http://www.databaseadvisors.com/newsletters.htm In the interest of full disclosure, I wrote those articles. Bryan Carbonnell bryan_carbonnell at cbc.ca >>> paul.hartland at fsmail.net 26-Mar-04 10:55:43 AM >>> To all, We currently have an Access Database one part of which contains Employee records. We also have several Word document templates (i.e. Holiday & Sickness forms etc). What we would like to be able to do is insert the employees name and address etc into the Word templates. How would I go about putting the employees address directly into the word document at a specific point. Has anyone any samples that I may view etc. Thanks in advance for all your help. From cfoust at infostatsystems.com Fri Mar 26 10:14:47 2004 From: cfoust at infostatsystems.com (Charlotte Foust) Date: Fri, 26 Mar 2004 08:14:47 -0800 Subject: [AccessD] Lookup Fields in Table Design Message-ID: Yes, but they do less damage than aspersions. Charlotte Foust -----Original Message----- From: John Bartow [mailto:john at winhaven.net] Sent: Thursday, March 25, 2004 6:22 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] Lookup Fields in Table Design Nasturtiums? I do believe they would be hard to cast! -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Charlotte Foust Sent: Thursday, March 25, 2004 6:30 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] Lookup Fields in Table Design That's because I misspelled it in my eagerness to cast nasturtiums on Drew! predilection (pred'l-ek'sh?n, pred'-) n. A partiality or disposition in favor of something; a preference. Charlotte Foust -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From DWUTKA at marlow.com Fri Mar 26 10:38:32 2004 From: DWUTKA at marlow.com (DWUTKA at marlow.com) Date: Fri, 26 Mar 2004 10:38:32 -0600 Subject: Lookup Fields: Was: RE: [AccessD] Fr@mework Discussion - set up q uestion Message-ID: <2F8793082E00D4119A1700B0D0216BF8022279CE@main2.marlow.com> Actually agree with you on the user issue. A well designed data structure is usually worse then greek to an end user. It wasn't your comment I was talking about though. Let me ask you a question though, because you and I have agreed on a lot of other things before, so I'm a little shocked on your position on this. If you have an Address table, (for US clients....for this example), and you want to get the two letter state abbreviation, do you simply give them a textbox, or do you give them a combo that builds itself from a 'State' table? I go with the state table. And since I may have multiple forms based on that table, I usually use a Lookup field, so that when I build the form, that combo is predefined. Drew -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Francisco H Tapia Sent: Friday, March 26, 2004 1:36 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Framework Discussion - set up question DWUTKA at marlow.com said the following on 3/25/2004 1:58 PM: > Okay, for number one, let's drop that. It's a pointless argument. If you > want to argue that using Lookups adds confusion, then I would REALLY hate to > see your table designs. Have you ever tried to explain a many to many table > to a 'user'? Trust me, they'll pick up what a 'lookup' field does a LOT > faster. And if you aren't using things like many to many tables, because > users could get confused, then you are not normalizing your data. See how > this is a BAD argument to try to defend against? I'll ask this because you brought it up, but how is my comment any indication of any lack of normalization on my database design? I'll tell you... it has NO BEARING on my database design. I don't care when a user is confused about database design. I don't explain to my users about lookup tables, that's not my job. I also don't try to explain Boyce-Codd 3rd Normal form. These are very dry and pointless topics to bring up w/ your users... I also don't particularly approve of allowing end users to write their own ad-hoc queries for that matter.. this is because they can join something so badly that it causes unnecessary page locks and system performance overall. If you do, then to each their own. Where I'm working at now, it has been now long accepted that certain users will write their own queries... that has all stopped w/ our recent upgrade to SqlServer2000. I've blocked all direct access to tables and many views. all they are allowed to do is run sprocs (Stored Procedures). So what? why should I expalin the concept of a temporary table to my end users? or how to use a server sided cursor? hmm? I don't care what confuses them about database design. It would be diffrent if they were underlings and I had to make sure they were up to speed so they could take over the project... they are not.. they are users of my and my co-worker's database system. That's not to say I don't appreciate or even give out helpful tips for those that are learing.. but I won't have them break down a system I'm responsible for. Lastly... I DO work on a plethora of databases.. and on occasion I do take in contract work (tho not lately). Adding Lookup tables adds a level of non-sense imnsho. Sure they're great if I only worked on a handful of db's. And it's not like I can't figure out what the previous developer did... you see... there is a bit of un-needed confusion.... > Now for number 2. You can't hack a feature with a 'feature creep' agrument. > Feature creep can affect anything in a bad way, however, if you are getting > paid by the hour, or are doing contract work, Feature creep means more > money! LOL well to each their own I guess :| -- -Francisco -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From john at winhaven.net Fri Mar 26 10:38:56 2004 From: john at winhaven.net (John Bartow) Date: Fri, 26 Mar 2004 10:38:56 -0600 Subject: [AccessD] Lookup Fields in Table Design In-Reply-To: <2F8793082E00D4119A1700B0D0216BF8022279CD@main2.marlow.com> Message-ID: Hi Drew, Don't misunderstand me, your points are well taken, and you have my utmost respect as a developer/programmer. Corruption is just a hot spot on my psyche. If I knew HOW it was caused it would be different and that's the issue - apparently no one (including M$) does or they would prevent it. Even when considering that M$ allows some things to happen/not happen as a bone thrown to its third party developers, no one has a corruption fixing utility that works and is making money off of. "Data goes into black box - gets corrupted - data doesn't come out of black box." That's actually my biggest concern with Access. The absolute (publicly) undocumented proprietary nature of it. Sometimes I think the (publicly) can be left out of the statement. I'm actually quite surprised by the results of this little debate. Ken, Charlotte, Dev, Lebans and others all warn against it. I think the question I posed here to Susan concerning lookups originally came to mind about 5 years ago when I saw it on Dev's website under the "ten rules". I don't follow "rules" - when I see the word "rule" my mind automatically translates it to "strong guideline", but it made me curious. Like I said I don't generally use lookups, I have, and I will if the situation calls for them again. -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of DWUTKA at marlow.com Sent: Friday, March 26, 2004 1:17 AM To: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com; accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: RE: [AccessD] Lookup Fields in Table Design John, the points are cute, but the problem is that Lookup fields do NOT cause corruption. He said they made it more difficult to fix. There are a TON of things (that everyone uses) that make repairing corruption more difficult. Essentially, if you make a blank database, and put it on CD, you stand the best chances of recovering that database when it's completely blank, and never used. Once you start adding data, code, objecs, etc, you are adding things which can complicate a recovery. So it's a no pointer / moot point, to say that lookup's made a particular recovery difficult. If there had been a bit of error handling code, which got in the way of recovering a database, would you say 'I'll never use Error Handling code, because it made my life difficult once'? I didn't think so. Drew From john at winhaven.net Fri Mar 26 10:38:56 2004 From: john at winhaven.net (John Bartow) Date: Fri, 26 Mar 2004 10:38:56 -0600 Subject: [AccessD] Lookup Fields in Table Design In-Reply-To: <2F8793082E00D4119A1700B0D0216BF8022279CD@main2.marlow.com> Message-ID: Here are "The Evils of Lookup Fields in Tables" from Dev's website: A Lookup field in a table displays the looked-up value. For instance, if a user opens a table datasheet and sees a column of company names, what is in the table is, in fact, a numeric CompanyID, and the table is linked with a select statement to the company table by that ID. Any query that uses that lookup field to sort by that company name won't work. Nor will a query that uses a company name in that field as a criteria. If a user creates a combobox to select the company using a value list, the data in the table can be over-written. Another relationship is created which then creates another set of indexes when a Lookup field is created, thus bloating the database unnecessarily. If a combobox based on the lookup is used in a form, and a filter is applied, the persistent filter effect of Access often saves the filter and the next time the form is opened, there will be a prompt for the value (which cannot be provided, thus creating an error). Reports based on the lookup field need a combobox to display the data, causing them to run more slowly. The underlying recordsource can also be modified to include the table, however the index, (unless it was set up within a proper relationship) may not be optimized. Lookup fields mask what is really happening, and hide good relational methodology from the user. The database cannot be properly upsized to, or queried by, another engine (without removing all the lookup fields) because no other engines use or understand them. If security is implemented, permissions to tables is usually denied, and RWOP queries are used for data access. There will often be errors that there are no permissions on a specific table that isn't even being used in a query (because the lookup field is). If the queries are nested or complex, it can take some time to track down the lookup that's causing the error (that is, if it occurs to you). http://www.mvps.org/access/tencommandments.htm From DWUTKA at marlow.com Fri Mar 26 10:41:26 2004 From: DWUTKA at marlow.com (DWUTKA at marlow.com) Date: Fri, 26 Mar 2004 10:41:26 -0600 Subject: Access is a Real Database WAS:RE: [AccessD] Fr@mework Discussion - set up question Message-ID: <2F8793082E00D4119A1700B0D0216BF8022279CF@main2.marlow.com> Ugh, know the feeling. I must admit, what I dispise more then comments like that, lately, are marketers who don't have a clue of how the web works (I'm not talking technical, just the Internet mindset), who then want to take a well designed site, and complicate it beyond belief! UGH! Drew -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Jim Lawrence (AccessD) Sent: Thursday, March 25, 2004 7:11 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] Framework Discussion - set up question Hi Drew: ...and expanding on your comments. Just today, I was told by an Oracle guru that the 'Access toy' could not connect to Oracle let alone connect to two separate Oracle DBs. Then when he was shown that it did he said that some inline code must have been added because Access was not capable of it. It is difficult to deal with that mindset... Jim -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of DWUTKA at marlow.com Sent: Thursday, March 25, 2004 11:45 AM To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: RE: [AccessD] Framework Discussion - set up question I have to agree with Susan on this. Yes, it is a tool to build desktop applications. However, so is Word, Excel, and even Outlook for that matter. VBA is a POWERFUL tool, and can quite frankly do anything it wants too, to a Windows OS. However, The Office Suite was ALSO meant to be a tool for the average user. No coding experience necessary to use any of the Office programs. This includes Access. Now, the fact that most users use Excel/Word, where they should be using Access, is simply due to the fact that most people hear the word 'database', and freak. Personally, I think that is do to overly complex systems built by 'professional developers'. The fact that the entire Office Suite is both easy to use, and powerful enough to create actual applications, should be a kudos to Microsoft, not a 'hot issue' to debate between developers. Now, what I feel needs to be 'fought' for, is the acceptance of Access throughout the db development world. I get tired of listening to SQL Server and Oracle developers who think of Access as a toy, instead of a database. Just my two cents. Drew -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Charlotte Foust Sent: Thursday, March 25, 2004 12:20 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] Framework Discussion - set up question >> I'm mostly in favor of anything that makes Access more available to the average user -- it IS a desktop application after all. Are you TRYING to start a fight, Susan?!!? Most of us have been trying for years to convince Microsoft that this is NOT a desktop application, it's a tool to *build* desktop applications. Let the flames begin! Charlotte Foust -----Original Message----- From: Susan Harkins [mailto:ssharkins at bellsouth.net] Sent: Thursday, March 25, 2004 10:03 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: [AccessD] Framework Discussion - set up question No. :) I'm talking about the built-in lookup field feature that lets you display a related value from another table. Open a table in Design view and click the Lookup tab in the Properties pane. Developers soundly trash them, but I find them rather cool -- and if abused, is that Access's fault? ;) I'm mostly in favor of anything that makes Access more available to the average user -- it IS a desktop application after all. No, I don't use them, and I often have to "undo" them in Northwind when I'm using that db in an article example, but I can see why users would like and use them. Here we goooooooooooooooooooo! ;) Susan H. Susan, I've seen people joke about this before and I've just assumed I knew what they were referring to ("hard coded" delimited lists that are not stored in a table). Is this a correct assumption? -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From DWUTKA at marlow.com Fri Mar 26 10:45:37 2004 From: DWUTKA at marlow.com (DWUTKA at marlow.com) Date: Fri, 26 Mar 2004 10:45:37 -0600 Subject: [AccessD] Framework Discussion - set up question Message-ID: <2F8793082E00D4119A1700B0D0216BF8022279D0@main2.marlow.com> Ken, still waiting on your example database. Everything I have tested shows that Lookup fields are NOT used until they are entered, with the exception of a brief check if the referenced tables/querries exist. Drew -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Ken Ismert Sent: Thursday, March 25, 2004 8:19 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: [AccessD] Framework Discussion - set up question From john at winhaven.net Fri Mar 26 10:48:21 2004 From: john at winhaven.net (John Bartow) Date: Fri, 26 Mar 2004 10:48:21 -0600 Subject: [AccessD] Framework pseudo-definition In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Brenda woke up at 3AM dizzy and half of her head was numb. It went away soon but I took her in to get it checked out. A lot of tests but so far no cause for it has been found... I hope you're waiting in hospitals isn't something bad happening in your life! From my.lists at verizon.net Fri Mar 26 11:02:27 2004 From: my.lists at verizon.net (Francisco H Tapia) Date: Fri, 26 Mar 2004 09:02:27 -0800 Subject: Lookup Fields: Was: RE: [AccessD] Fr@mework Discussion - set up q uestion In-Reply-To: <2F8793082E00D4119A1700B0D0216BF8022279CE@main2.marlow.com> References: <2F8793082E00D4119A1700B0D0216BF8022279CE@main2.marlow.com> Message-ID: <40646223.6030705@verizon.net> DWUTKA at marlow.com said the following on 3/26/2004 8:38 AM: >Let me ask you a question though, because you and I have agreed on a lot of >other things before, so I'm a little shocked on your position on this. If >you have an Address table, (for US clients....for this example), and you >want to get the two letter state abbreviation, do you simply give them a >textbox, or do you give them a combo that builds itself from a 'State' >table? I go with the state table. And since I may have multiple forms >based on that table, I usually use a Lookup field, so that when I build the >form, that combo is predefined. > > This particular example is kind of bad (for me), because I try to create one form for one purpose, thus the data entry screen for addresses is done on one form, thus end users use the same form to add/edit addresses that require the combobox that points to a table of states. So yes, that's a lookup on the "FORM" not the base table. That has no point... so I have one need for the state combobox.. why build it at the table level? and I encourage for my users to type in the zipcode first so they don't usually search for states... :) -- -Francisco From caa at highway.com.br Fri Mar 26 11:04:17 2004 From: caa at highway.com.br (Carlos Alberto Alves) Date: Fri, 26 Mar 2004 14:04:17 -0300 Subject: [AccessD] Dir Size Routine In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On Tue, 23 Mar 2004 16:37:28 -0500, Mitsules, Mark S. (Newport News) wrote: > Thank you Marty...I can use this. Supports network drives as well:) > > -----Original Message----- > From: MartyConnelly [mailto:martyconnelly at shaw.ca] > Sent: Tuesday, March 23, 2004 3:48 PM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: Re: [AccessD] Dir Size Routine > > > I use this free utility I-Disk No docs but intuiative .I believe it > gives a printed report. > http://downloads-zdnet.com.com/3000-2248-10188280.html?tag=lst-0-8 > > Arthur Fuller wrote: > >> Anybody got a routine to walk the dir tree from a spefied location and >> report the accumulated size of all files in the given dir (+subdir), at >> each level? >> >> I.e. >> >> ? DirSize( "d:\docs" ) >> >> d:\docs 1gb >> d:\docs\a .3gb >> d:\docs\b .5gb >> d:\docs\b\1 .2gb >> >> TIA, >> Arthur >> >> >> > Have you tried to shell "DIR /A" yet??? ;-) -- ****************************** * Carlos Alberto Alves * * Child Neurologist * * Systems Analyst/Programmer * * Rio de Janeiro, Brazil * * mailto:caa at highway.com.br * ****************************** From john at winhaven.net Fri Mar 26 11:07:10 2004 From: john at winhaven.net (John Bartow) Date: Fri, 26 Mar 2004 11:07:10 -0600 Subject: [AccessD] Lookup Fields in Table Design In-Reply-To: Message-ID: What, are you doing word of the day or something? ;o) After those last two words it shows how bad Goggle's dictionary is. Back to Webster! -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Charlotte Foust Sent: Friday, March 26, 2004 10:15 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] Lookup Fields in Table Design Yes, but they do less damage than aspersions. Charlotte Foust -----Original Message----- From: John Bartow [mailto:john at winhaven.net] Sent: Thursday, March 25, 2004 6:22 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] Lookup Fields in Table Design Nasturtiums? I do believe they would be hard to cast! -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Charlotte Foust Sent: Thursday, March 25, 2004 6:30 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] Lookup Fields in Table Design That's because I misspelled it in my eagerness to cast nasturtiums on Drew! predilection (pred'l-ek'sh?n, pred'-) n. A partiality or disposition in favor of something; a preference. Charlotte Foust -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From gustav at cactus.dk Fri Mar 26 11:04:10 2004 From: gustav at cactus.dk (Gustav Brock) Date: Fri, 26 Mar 2004 18:04:10 +0100 Subject: [AccessD] Lookup Fields in Table Design In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <19233455246.20040326180410@cactus.dk> Hi all lookuppers Maybe I'm dense but - as mentioned by Ken - if you really need the feature of lookup fields (and I did once for some superuser administrative tasks performed once a year or never, thus not justifying design of eight forms) you simply - in a separate frontend database - create some queries retrieving exactly the fields you need (which excludes the ID), readable aliases for the fields, and lookups as needed. Then everybody is happy. You avoid fiddling with the table design and you can easily redesign the queries if and when needed and you take advantage of a feature of Access which can be handy. And this discussion becomes moot (isn't that the wording for such a situation you use "over there"?) /gustav > Here are "The Evils of Lookup Fields in Tables" from Dev's website: > A Lookup field in a table displays the looked-up value. For instance, if a > user opens a table datasheet and sees a column of company names, what is in > the table is, in fact, a numeric CompanyID, and the table is linked with a > select statement to the company table by that ID. > Any query that uses that lookup field to sort by that company name won't > work. Nor will a query that uses a company name in that field as a criteria. > If a user creates a combobox to select the company using a value list, the > data in the table can be over-written. > Another relationship is created which then creates another set of indexes > when a Lookup field is created, thus bloating the database unnecessarily. > If a combobox based on the lookup is used in a form, and a filter is > applied, the persistent filter effect of Access often saves the filter and > the next time the form is opened, there will be a prompt for the value > (which cannot be provided, thus creating an error). > Reports based on the lookup field need a combobox to display the data, > causing them to run more slowly. The underlying recordsource can also be > modified to include the table, however the index, (unless it was set up > within a proper relationship) may not be optimized. > Lookup fields mask what is really happening, and hide good relational > methodology from the user. > The database cannot be properly upsized to, or queried by, another engine > (without removing all the lookup fields) because no other engines use or > understand them. > If security is implemented, permissions to tables is usually denied, and > RWOP queries are used for data access. There will often be errors that there > are no permissions on a specific table that isn't even being used in a query > (because the lookup field is). If the queries are nested or complex, it can > take some time to track down the lookup that's causing the error (that is, > if it occurs to you). > http://www.mvps.org/access/tencommandments.htm From cfoust at infostatsystems.com Fri Mar 26 11:39:12 2004 From: cfoust at infostatsystems.com (Charlotte Foust) Date: Fri, 26 Mar 2004 09:39:12 -0800 Subject: [AccessD] Lookup Fields in Table Design Message-ID: There is also the issue of TableID limits, which I believe include all the tables involved as lookups. Charlotte Foust -----Original Message----- From: Gustav Brock [mailto:gustav at cactus.dk] Sent: Friday, March 26, 2004 9:04 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Lookup Fields in Table Design Hi all lookuppers Maybe I'm dense but - as mentioned by Ken - if you really need the feature of lookup fields (and I did once for some superuser administrative tasks performed once a year or never, thus not justifying design of eight forms) you simply - in a separate frontend database - create some queries retrieving exactly the fields you need (which excludes the ID), readable aliases for the fields, and lookups as needed. Then everybody is happy. You avoid fiddling with the table design and you can easily redesign the queries if and when needed and you take advantage of a feature of Access which can be handy. And this discussion becomes moot (isn't that the wording for such a situation you use "over there"?) /gustav > Here are "The Evils of Lookup Fields in Tables" from Dev's website: > A Lookup field in a table displays the looked-up value. For instance, > if a user opens a table datasheet and sees a column of company names, > what is in the table is, in fact, a numeric CompanyID, and the table > is linked with a select statement to the company table by that ID. > Any query that uses that lookup field to sort by that company name > won't work. Nor will a query that uses a company name in that field as > a criteria. If a user creates a combobox to select the company using a > value list, the data in the table can be over-written. > Another relationship is created which then creates another set of > indexes when a Lookup field is created, thus bloating the database > unnecessarily. > If a combobox based on the lookup is used in a form, and a filter is > applied, the persistent filter effect of Access often saves the filter > and the next time the form is opened, there will be a prompt for the > value (which cannot be provided, thus creating an error). > Reports based on the lookup field need a combobox to display the data, > causing them to run more slowly. The underlying recordsource can also > be modified to include the table, however the index, (unless it was > set up within a proper relationship) may not be optimized. > Lookup fields mask what is really happening, and hide good relational > methodology from the user. > The database cannot be properly upsized to, or queried by, another > engine (without removing all the lookup fields) because no other > engines use or understand them. > If security is implemented, permissions to tables is usually denied, > and RWOP queries are used for data access. There will often be errors > that there are no permissions on a specific table that isn't even > being used in a query (because the lookup field is). If the queries > are nested or complex, it can take some time to track down the lookup > that's causing the error (that is, if it occurs to you). > http://www.mvps.org/access/tencommandments.htm -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From cfoust at infostatsystems.com Fri Mar 26 11:40:32 2004 From: cfoust at infostatsystems.com (Charlotte Foust) Date: Fri, 26 Mar 2004 09:40:32 -0800 Subject: [AccessD] Framework Discussion - set up question Message-ID: Isn't that a bit strident, Drew? Ken will get you an example when he gets it to you. Either be polite or go to your corner. Charlotte Foust -----Original Message----- From: DWUTKA at marlow.com [mailto:DWUTKA at marlow.com] Sent: Friday, March 26, 2004 8:46 AM To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: RE: [AccessD] Framework Discussion - set up question Ken, still waiting on your example database. Everything I have tested shows that Lookup fields are NOT used until they are entered, with the exception of a brief check if the referenced tables/querries exist. Drew -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Ken Ismert Sent: Thursday, March 25, 2004 8:19 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: [AccessD] Framework Discussion - set up question -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From john at winhaven.net Fri Mar 26 11:54:36 2004 From: john at winhaven.net (John Bartow) Date: Fri, 26 Mar 2004 11:54:36 -0600 Subject: [AccessD] Lookup Fields in Table Design In-Reply-To: <19233455246.20040326180410@cactus.dk> Message-ID: Hi Gustav: "moot" would be the correct word - if it really applied ;o) I actually do things the way you describe. But I do it based on other developers advice that I never really questioned before. I believe the discussion is: why not (use the lookups property)? For instance, when I did use it on a particular project where it fit the need it did make form design quicker and easier (once I adjusted to it). It makes placing combo boxes (in my case to lookup a foreign key) very simple. Just drag the control out and forget about it. A one step process. Being suspicious that it would cause problems later I went back to how I had done it previously. The 2 or 3 extra steps when placing a combo box really isn't adding a lot of overhead to my overall development time. But it does beg the question: why not? John B. -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Gustav Brock Sent: Friday, March 26, 2004 11:04 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Lookup Fields in Table Design Hi all lookuppers Maybe I'm dense but - as mentioned by Ken - if you really need the feature of lookup fields (and I did once for some superuser administrative tasks performed once a year or never, thus not justifying design of eight forms) you simply - in a separate frontend database - create some queries retrieving exactly the fields you need (which excludes the ID), readable aliases for the fields, and lookups as needed. Then everybody is happy. You avoid fiddling with the table design and you can easily redesign the queries if and when needed and you take advantage of a feature of Access which can be handy. And this discussion becomes moot (isn't that the wording for such a situation you use "over there"?) /gustav > Here are "The Evils of Lookup Fields in Tables" from Dev's website: > A Lookup field in a table displays the looked-up value. For instance, if a > user opens a table datasheet and sees a column of company names, what is in > the table is, in fact, a numeric CompanyID, and the table is linked with a > select statement to the company table by that ID. > Any query that uses that lookup field to sort by that company name won't > work. Nor will a query that uses a company name in that field as a criteria. > If a user creates a combobox to select the company using a value list, the > data in the table can be over-written. > Another relationship is created which then creates another set of indexes > when a Lookup field is created, thus bloating the database unnecessarily. > If a combobox based on the lookup is used in a form, and a filter is > applied, the persistent filter effect of Access often saves the filter and > the next time the form is opened, there will be a prompt for the value > (which cannot be provided, thus creating an error). > Reports based on the lookup field need a combobox to display the data, > causing them to run more slowly. The underlying recordsource can also be > modified to include the table, however the index, (unless it was set up > within a proper relationship) may not be optimized. > Lookup fields mask what is really happening, and hide good relational > methodology from the user. > The database cannot be properly upsized to, or queried by, another engine > (without removing all the lookup fields) because no other engines use or > understand them. > If security is implemented, permissions to tables is usually denied, and > RWOP queries are used for data access. There will often be errors that there > are no permissions on a specific table that isn't even being used in a query > (because the lookup field is). If the queries are nested or complex, it can > take some time to track down the lookup that's causing the error (that is, > if it occurs to you). > http://www.mvps.org/access/tencommandments.htm -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From john at winhaven.net Fri Mar 26 12:00:15 2004 From: john at winhaven.net (John Bartow) Date: Fri, 26 Mar 2004 12:00:15 -0600 Subject: [AccessD] Lookup Fields in Table Design In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Here's a stretch but... For people that like to use the added form designing capabilites of the lookup property, once the table design and realtionships are complete you could set the desired lookup properties. Design all of the forms for the application. When the application design is complete you could run code that iterates the table collection and eliminates all lookup properties in the table design. This in essence would eliminate the corruption and performance issues. Eh? -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Charlotte Foust Sent: Friday, March 26, 2004 11:39 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] Lookup Fields in Table Design There is also the issue of TableID limits, which I believe include all the tables involved as lookups. Charlotte Foust From cfoust at infostatsystems.com Fri Mar 26 12:18:36 2004 From: cfoust at infostatsystems.com (Charlotte Foust) Date: Fri, 26 Mar 2004 10:18:36 -0800 Subject: [AccessD] Lookup Fields in Table Design Message-ID: John, You are NOT getting into the spirit of this discussion. Reasonableness has no place here! Charlotte Foust -----Original Message----- From: John Bartow [mailto:john at winhaven.net] Sent: Friday, March 26, 2004 10:00 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] Lookup Fields in Table Design Here's a stretch but... For people that like to use the added form designing capabilites of the lookup property, once the table design and realtionships are complete you could set the desired lookup properties. Design all of the forms for the application. When the application design is complete you could run code that iterates the table collection and eliminates all lookup properties in the table design. This in essence would eliminate the corruption and performance issues. Eh? -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Charlotte Foust Sent: Friday, March 26, 2004 11:39 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] Lookup Fields in Table Design There is also the issue of TableID limits, which I believe include all the tables involved as lookups. Charlotte Foust -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From gustav at cactus.dk Fri Mar 26 12:45:05 2004 From: gustav at cactus.dk (Gustav Brock) Date: Fri, 26 Mar 2004 19:45:05 +0100 Subject: [AccessD] Lookup Fields in Table Design In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <19339509551.20040326194505@cactus.dk> Hi John > I believe the discussion is: why not (use the lookups property)? In that case I can't tell; I've just never felt the need as form design for my part never is "very simple" and I always use queries as recordsource for forms and combos. For me tables are tables. However, if anyone find lookups in tables of value, feel free - but I don't think I'll join the party. As I told, I've used them once (in queries) only) - that's all. /gustav From john at winhaven.net Fri Mar 26 12:50:21 2004 From: john at winhaven.net (John Bartow) Date: Fri, 26 Mar 2004 12:50:21 -0600 Subject: [AccessD] Lookup Fields in Table Design In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Charlotte, You'll find that most people are more strongly opinionated than I am (on many issues). While I may jest about starting flame wars, I really don't enjoy seeing people argue. However, I do enjoy seeing people debate an issue. Especially a group with as intelligent and capable people as we have here. There are many lists where one gets chastised for not conforming to the group mentality (most generally the "bully" of the group's mentality)- I don't stick around those lists very long - not because I can't take getting chastised but because there is really not much one can learn from people who think they have all of the answers for all eternity! And there is certainly little opportunity for me to "help" anyone in that situation. I do try to give back what I can on any list I am on (including directing people to this list). I question the status quo. I listen to all sides of an issue (and there are usually more than two sides). I make a decision. I recommend things based on informed decisions. I accept that not everyone is going to take my recommendations. I revisit my decisions on a regular basis to see if there are compelling reasons to change them. I believe this is why I am a very good "consultant". John PS: We'll just leave my capabilities as a "programmer" out of it! ;o) -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Charlotte Foust Sent: Friday, March 26, 2004 12:19 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] Lookup Fields in Table Design John, You are NOT getting into the spirit of this discussion. Reasonableness has no place here! Charlotte Foust -----Original Message----- From: John Bartow [mailto:john at winhaven.net] Sent: Friday, March 26, 2004 10:00 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] Lookup Fields in Table Design Here's a stretch but... For people that like to use the added form designing capabilites of the lookup property, once the table design and realtionships are complete you could set the desired lookup properties. Design all of the forms for the application. When the application design is complete you could run code that iterates the table collection and eliminates all lookup properties in the table design. This in essence would eliminate the corruption and performance issues. Eh? -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Charlotte Foust Sent: Friday, March 26, 2004 11:39 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] Lookup Fields in Table Design There is also the issue of TableID limits, which I believe include all the tables involved as lookups. Charlotte Foust -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From cfoust at infostatsystems.com Fri Mar 26 13:26:29 2004 From: cfoust at infostatsystems.com (Charlotte Foust) Date: Fri, 26 Mar 2004 11:26:29 -0800 Subject: [AccessD] Lookup Fields in Table Design Message-ID: >>most generally the "bully" of the group's mentality Are you talking about Drew?? Charlotte Foust -----Original Message----- From: John Bartow [mailto:john at winhaven.net] Sent: Friday, March 26, 2004 10:50 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] Lookup Fields in Table Design Charlotte, You'll find that most people are more strongly opinionated than I am (on many issues). While I may jest about starting flame wars, I really don't enjoy seeing people argue. However, I do enjoy seeing people debate an issue. Especially a group with as intelligent and capable people as we have here. There are many lists where one gets chastised for not conforming to the group mentality (most generally the "bully" of the group's mentality)- I don't stick around those lists very long - not because I can't take getting chastised but because there is really not much one can learn from people who think they have all of the answers for all eternity! And there is certainly little opportunity for me to "help" anyone in that situation. I do try to give back what I can on any list I am on (including directing people to this list). I question the status quo. I listen to all sides of an issue (and there are usually more than two sides). I make a decision. I recommend things based on informed decisions. I accept that not everyone is going to take my recommendations. I revisit my decisions on a regular basis to see if there are compelling reasons to change them. I believe this is why I am a very good "consultant". John PS: We'll just leave my capabilities as a "programmer" out of it! ;o) -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Charlotte Foust Sent: Friday, March 26, 2004 12:19 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] Lookup Fields in Table Design John, You are NOT getting into the spirit of this discussion. Reasonableness has no place here! Charlotte Foust -----Original Message----- From: John Bartow [mailto:john at winhaven.net] Sent: Friday, March 26, 2004 10:00 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] Lookup Fields in Table Design Here's a stretch but... For people that like to use the added form designing capabilites of the lookup property, once the table design and realtionships are complete you could set the desired lookup properties. Design all of the forms for the application. When the application design is complete you could run code that iterates the table collection and eliminates all lookup properties in the table design. This in essence would eliminate the corruption and performance issues. Eh? -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Charlotte Foust Sent: Friday, March 26, 2004 11:39 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] Lookup Fields in Table Design There is also the issue of TableID limits, which I believe include all the tables involved as lookups. Charlotte Foust -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From DWUTKA at marlow.com Fri Mar 26 13:27:58 2004 From: DWUTKA at marlow.com (DWUTKA at marlow.com) Date: Fri, 26 Mar 2004 13:27:58 -0600 Subject: [AccessD] Lookup Fields in Table Design Message-ID: <2F8793082E00D4119A1700B0D0216BF8022279D1@main2.marlow.com> I'm shocked. I used Dev's site quite a bit, when I started out with Access. I really admire a lot of what he has done. However, I think a lot of what he has about Lookup Fields on there are wrong. I just changed my test, from a simple State lookup, to a StateID --> StateName setup. Added an ID (autonumber) field to tblStates, and then updated the data in my 'main' table to have the ID's, instead of the abbreviation. Then I switched it to a number field. I then copied the database again, and switched the copy to be a lookup field for the StateID. Compacted both (a little over 200,000 records in both), and NO difference in size. Without indexing... querying is the same speed, with indexing, the querying is still the same speed. However, I now noticed a difference in size, with a lookup field, when the field is indexed. That is definitely interesting. However, that goes away, if you use a callback function. VERY interesting. Have to give them half a point back, because there is a small amount of 'bloat', if you use a query/table for the lookup. But it's negligible, and also, both databases grow when you index the field, just grows a bit more. I would never really call that 'bloat'. Not trying to back track, but to me, bloat is when a database grows in size over time, but when compacted, it gets smaller. The portion that is 'reduced' is bloat. The portion left after the compact is 'overhead'. That's my definition. Admittedly, if you are going to run close to max db size, then lookups should be removed, to get that much more space. But we are talking overhead space, not really 'bloat'. As far as the compacting issue, that's another story. Microsoft has several good reasons for not releasing the inner workings of JET. First of all, there is the licensing issue. If you developed a software package you wanted people to buy, would you give anyone the source? Of course not. If MS gave out the inner workings of JET, it wouldn't be long until Access was unnecessary, because people would just roll their own JET engine. Another reason is support. Jet does a lot of stuff, so even if they did hand out the detailed specs, one little slip, and even a good developer could seriously fry an .mdb. There is nothing mysterious about corruption. It's usually easy to explain, and in most cases is fixable. What you must remember, is that file corruption is NOT limited to .mdb's. It can happen in any type of file. The difference between Access and other file types, however, is what makes it seem like more of an issue. A few years ago, our network was in a serious state of disrepair. We had file corruptions all over the place. That included Word and Excel files, and definitely included .mdb's. A file is nothing more then a series of bytes. With a bad network, flaky hard drive, corrupted OS, (and a million other reasons), it certainly is not impossible to goof a few bytes here and there. Now, depending on what kind of file it is, and what that file does, is going to determine how the corruption affects things. Take, for example, an .exe or .dll. Those files contain CPU instructions. Have you ever had a program start crashing on you? After an Uninstall and reinstall, everything is working again. A lot of times that is due to a file corruption. One corrupted (changed) byte in a .dll or .exe, and you are now changing how the CPU deals with that code. All sorts of things can happen. However, in something like and HTML file, HTML is designed to ignore what it doesn't understand, so it's nearly impossible to have normal file corruption do any real 'damage' to an HMTL file. The more common issues with Word and Excel are the 'locking' files. Something will goof in them, and then that file is locked out. Since Word/Excel is saving changes in those temp files, actual corruption in the original document is more rare (but not unheard of...excel and word have to update the original document when you save it, so that is when corruption can occur there). With an .mdb file, JET is monitoring who has what locked, is reading/updating indexes, reading/updating data, etc. A lot of activity in one file. The .ldb file is only storing who's logged in (and it is also used for locks within the .mdb, but other then the who's logged in, no other data is being changed in the .ldb, only locking bytes). Get a goofed byte in the mix, and things can either continue, go seriously awry, or somewhere in between. just depends what was affected. A lot of time, the corruption is simply someone's machine not 'closing' out of the database correctly. That is easily repaired. But if bytes are corrupted in the indexes, the table definitions, or in the code, that is something the system doesn't know how to 'replace', because it doesn't have a 'template' or 'starting point' to replace it with. As far as I know, the ONLY design issue KNOWN to corrupt a database, happens to lie with a problem between JET and Foxpro. Something about the differences between how JET deals with Memo fields, and Foxpro deals with them. Access does NOT corrupt .mdb's, it is an outside influence that does that. That is a VERY important concept to remember. Because of that, there are NO features within Access that will corrupt a database. (Yes, a feature could be programmed wrong, but Microsoft would eventually fix that with a service pack, because a self corrupting database system won't sell....). Recovering from a corruption all depends on where the corruption actually lies, which is not entirely blind luck. Since most corruption issues are only put into affect when a database is being read/locked/written, what you are reading/writing is usually going to be the place where the corruption lies. So it could be data within a table, table defs, indexes, code, etc. Practically everything used within a database. So not only are all database features designed to NOT corrupt the database, but they are also all prone to fail, if file corruption does occur. On top of that, all features have their own quirks as to the difficulties of recovering. Corruption in the data isn't too bad, since you'll just get a bad record or two. Corruption in code is more difficult, because it will probably lock up quite a bit of the code, but that can be returned. Corruption within a tabledef, or index can affect whether the data is easily retrievable, since JET uses them when retrieving it. Hope that clears up some of the mystery for you. Drew -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of John Bartow Sent: Friday, March 26, 2004 10:39 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] Lookup Fields in Table Design Hi Drew, Don't misunderstand me, your points are well taken, and you have my utmost respect as a developer/programmer. Corruption is just a hot spot on my psyche. If I knew HOW it was caused it would be different and that's the issue - apparently no one (including M$) does or they would prevent it. Even when considering that M$ allows some things to happen/not happen as a bone thrown to its third party developers, no one has a corruption fixing utility that works and is making money off of. "Data goes into black box - gets corrupted - data doesn't come out of black box." That's actually my biggest concern with Access. The absolute (publicly) undocumented proprietary nature of it. Sometimes I think the (publicly) can be left out of the statement. I'm actually quite surprised by the results of this little debate. Ken, Charlotte, Dev, Lebans and others all warn against it. I think the question I posed here to Susan concerning lookups originally came to mind about 5 years ago when I saw it on Dev's website under the "ten rules". I don't follow "rules" - when I see the word "rule" my mind automatically translates it to "strong guideline", but it made me curious. Like I said I don't generally use lookups, I have, and I will if the situation calls for them again. -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of DWUTKA at marlow.com Sent: Friday, March 26, 2004 1:17 AM To: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com; accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: RE: [AccessD] Lookup Fields in Table Design John, the points are cute, but the problem is that Lookup fields do NOT cause corruption. He said they made it more difficult to fix. There are a TON of things (that everyone uses) that make repairing corruption more difficult. Essentially, if you make a blank database, and put it on CD, you stand the best chances of recovering that database when it's completely blank, and never used. Once you start adding data, code, objecs, etc, you are adding things which can complicate a recovery. So it's a no pointer / moot point, to say that lookup's made a particular recovery difficult. If there had been a bit of error handling code, which got in the way of recovering a database, would you say 'I'll never use Error Handling code, because it made my life difficult once'? I didn't think so. Drew -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From DWUTKA at marlow.com Fri Mar 26 13:43:16 2004 From: DWUTKA at marlow.com (DWUTKA at marlow.com) Date: Fri, 26 Mar 2004 13:43:16 -0600 Subject: [AccessD] Lookup Fields in Table Design Message-ID: <2F8793082E00D4119A1700B0D0216BF8022279D2@main2.marlow.com> Comments in-line: -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of John Bartow Sent: Friday, March 26, 2004 10:39 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] Lookup Fields in Table Design Here are "The Evils of Lookup Fields in Tables" from Dev's website: A Lookup field in a table displays the looked-up value. For instance, if a user opens a table datasheet and sees a column of company names, what is in the table is, in fact, a numeric CompanyID, and the table is linked with a select statement to the company table by that ID. (Dev's site says this adds confusion to a user, when looking at a well designed database structure. The key is, the users shouldn't really care how the database is designed. A lookup field is still storing the RIGHT data (ID's, in this case), it's just displaying differently, which is a catch 22. A user might be confused that what they are seeing isn't really in the table, but then again, they would probably be just as confused if they say the actual ID. Ever use Random ID's? If they saw Random ID values in there, it would mean practically nothing, but by seeing what the ID represents, they at least understand what's in that field). Any query that uses that lookup field to sort by that company name won't work. Nor will a query that uses a company name in that field as a criteria. If a user creates a combobox to select the company using a value list, the data in the table can be over-written. (This gives the impression that querying doesn't work against a lookup field. That is absolutely not true. it just means that you have to give criteria with the appropriate type. With a State Abbreviation lookup, where the field is text, and the lookup just gives a list of what text can be in there, this argument is null and void, because the field is the same whether it's lookup or not. But if you store an ID in the field, and the lookup shows text, then you just write querries the RIGHT way, and query that field with the ID. In fact, if you use a form for query criteria, you put a combobox, with the bound column being the ID, and the user doesn't know the difference at all. As far as a user creating a form with a value list combo box.....ummmm, if you let your users do that, you have a lot more problems to deal with, more important ones in fact.) Another relationship is created which then creates another set of indexes when a Lookup field is created, thus bloating the database unnecessarily. (This is true. ONLY if the lookup field is indexed though. You are already getting a size increase from the index, which speeds things up, so you are getting a minor increase if it's a lookup too. Again (from previous post), I don't consider this bloat, because it's just a part of how JET indexes stuff. We don't consider Indexing bloat, do we?) If a combobox based on the lookup is used in a form, and a filter is applied, the persistent filter effect of Access often saves the filter and the next time the form is opened, there will be a prompt for the value (which cannot be provided, thus creating an error). (Interesting, saw this on the site, haven't looked into it. This would be an issue, but so far the only one I would actually count. (Don't care about it though, I don't let my users filter my forms, unless it's a rare occasion). Reports based on the lookup field need a combobox to display the data, causing them to run more slowly. The underlying recordsource can also be modified to include the table, however the index, (unless it was set up within a proper relationship) may not be optimized. (Not true. You would have a query to link the data you want to display (unless you want to display an ID), and the joined field would be what goes in the report. Lookups have no affect on what controls you CAN put into place. Only sets what the default is). Lookup fields mask what is really happening, and hide good relational methodology from the user. (Ah, this is where I read it, not the first paragraph. What's the point? Users are confused with good relational methodology as it is. What's their point?) The database cannot be properly upsized to, or queried by, another engine (without removing all the lookup fields) because no other engines use or understand them. (Not sure what they are saying. I know that JET recognizes them, so JET can be used to pull the data anywhere you want.) If security is implemented, permissions to tables is usually denied, and RWOP queries are used for data access. There will often be errors that there are no permissions on a specific table that isn't even being used in a query (because the lookup field is). If the queries are nested or complex, it can take some time to track down the lookup that's causing the error (that is, if it occurs to you). (This is arguing about complexity. Yes, you should know what you are doing before developing something professionally. But that doesn't mean that if something should be used CORRECTLY that it should never be used at all. This paragraph is basically saying 'If you don't setup your Access User Level security correctly, you could get errors in your Lookups.' Well, DUH! You'll get errors all over the place.) http://www.mvps.org/access/tencommandments.htm So in conclusion, the only real valid point, IMHO, is the error involved with filtering forms. Would have to reproduce to determine where the issue lies with that. Drew -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From DWUTKA at marlow.com Fri Mar 26 13:46:30 2004 From: DWUTKA at marlow.com (DWUTKA at marlow.com) Date: Fri, 26 Mar 2004 13:46:30 -0600 Subject: Lookup Fields: Was: RE: [AccessD] Fr@mework Discussion - set up q uestion Message-ID: <2F8793082E00D4119A1700B0D0216BF8022279D3@main2.marlow.com> If you get right down to it, MOST of my development is in VB 6 or ASP, for front ends, so Access forms aren't that big a deal for me. But I do develop Access FE's from time to time, and have yet to see the harm in using Lookups when necessary. Plus, with VB or ASP front ends, it's handy to go in and see the data. Putting lookups in, allows me to look at applicable information in the tables, instead of pk's, which have no real meaning to what I am looking for. (Most of the time. sometimes I do want to see the pks, so then I just turn the lookups off!) Drew -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Francisco H Tapia Sent: Friday, March 26, 2004 11:02 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: Lookup Fields: Was: RE: [AccessD] Fr at mework Discussion - set up q uestion DWUTKA at marlow.com said the following on 3/26/2004 8:38 AM: >Let me ask you a question though, because you and I have agreed on a lot of >other things before, so I'm a little shocked on your position on this. If >you have an Address table, (for US clients....for this example), and you >want to get the two letter state abbreviation, do you simply give them a >textbox, or do you give them a combo that builds itself from a 'State' >table? I go with the state table. And since I may have multiple forms >based on that table, I usually use a Lookup field, so that when I build the >form, that combo is predefined. > > This particular example is kind of bad (for me), because I try to create one form for one purpose, thus the data entry screen for addresses is done on one form, thus end users use the same form to add/edit addresses that require the combobox that points to a table of states. So yes, that's a lookup on the "FORM" not the base table. That has no point... so I have one need for the state combobox.. why build it at the table level? and I encourage for my users to type in the zipcode first so they don't usually search for states... :) -- -Francisco -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From cfoust at infostatsystems.com Fri Mar 26 13:49:56 2004 From: cfoust at infostatsystems.com (Charlotte Foust) Date: Fri, 26 Mar 2004 11:49:56 -0800 Subject: Lookup Fields: Was: RE: [AccessD] Fr@mework Discussion - set up q uestion Message-ID: I think that's where some of the argument comes in, Drew. Those of us who work entirely in Access FEs have a different perspective on some of the things you discount. As for bloat, that is a major issue in Access FEs, since that's where all the queries execute and all the temporary queries cause the bloat. Charlotte Foust -----Original Message----- From: DWUTKA at marlow.com [mailto:DWUTKA at marlow.com] Sent: Friday, March 26, 2004 11:46 AM To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: RE: Lookup Fields: Was: RE: [AccessD] Fr at mework Discussion - set up q uestion If you get right down to it, MOST of my development is in VB 6 or ASP, for front ends, so Access forms aren't that big a deal for me. But I do develop Access FE's from time to time, and have yet to see the harm in using Lookups when necessary. Plus, with VB or ASP front ends, it's handy to go in and see the data. Putting lookups in, allows me to look at applicable information in the tables, instead of pk's, which have no real meaning to what I am looking for. (Most of the time. sometimes I do want to see the pks, so then I just turn the lookups off!) Drew -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Francisco H Tapia Sent: Friday, March 26, 2004 11:02 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: Lookup Fields: Was: RE: [AccessD] Fr at mework Discussion - set up q uestion DWUTKA at marlow.com said the following on 3/26/2004 8:38 AM: >Let me ask you a question though, because you and I have agreed on a >lot of other things before, so I'm a little shocked on your position on >this. If you have an Address table, (for US clients....for this >example), and you want to get the two letter state abbreviation, do you >simply give them a textbox, or do you give them a combo that builds >itself from a 'State' table? I go with the state table. And since I >may have multiple forms based on that table, I usually use a Lookup >field, so that when I build the form, that combo is predefined. > > This particular example is kind of bad (for me), because I try to create one form for one purpose, thus the data entry screen for addresses is done on one form, thus end users use the same form to add/edit addresses that require the combobox that points to a table of states. So yes, that's a lookup on the "FORM" not the base table. That has no point... so I have one need for the state combobox.. why build it at the table level? and I encourage for my users to type in the zipcode first so they don't usually search for states... :) -- -Francisco -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From Bryan_Carbonnell at cbc.ca Fri Mar 26 13:52:59 2004 From: Bryan_Carbonnell at cbc.ca (Bryan Carbonnell) Date: Fri, 26 Mar 2004 14:52:59 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Lookup Fields in Table Design Message-ID: I'll partially disagree with you on this point Drew. >The more common issues with Word and Excel are the 'locking' files >original document is more rare (but not unheard of...excel and word have to Corruption of the main doc is not more rare. I have had more Word doc go south on me than any type locking file or mdb or any other file. I have never heard of a locking file getting corrupt. I have never had an Excel doc go south, so I can't speak about which is more common in Excel. Bryan Carbonnell bryan_carbonnell at cbc.ca >>> DWUTKA at marlow.com 26-Mar-04 2:27:58 PM >>> file. The more common issues with Word and Excel are the 'locking' files. Something will goof in them, and then that file is locked out. Since Word/Excel is saving changes in those temp files, actual corruption in the original document is more rare (but not unheard of...excel and word have to update the original document when you save it, so that is when corruption can occur there). From ssharkins at bellsouth.net Fri Mar 26 13:53:51 2004 From: ssharkins at bellsouth.net (Susan Harkins) Date: Fri, 26 Mar 2004 14:53:51 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Lookup Fields in Table Design In-Reply-To: <19233455246.20040326180410@cactus.dk> Message-ID: <20040326195346.VQLT1780.imf23aec.mail.bellsouth.net@SUSANONE> And this discussion becomes moot (isn't that the wording for such a situation you use "over there"?) ========Typical developer response. :) You assume the average user knows how to do that -- controls inherit the lookup field, so the user doesn't even need to bother -- it is already there! It isn't moot yet. ;) Susan H. From ssharkins at bellsouth.net Fri Mar 26 13:57:00 2004 From: ssharkins at bellsouth.net (Susan Harkins) Date: Fri, 26 Mar 2004 14:57:00 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Lookup Fields in Table Design In-Reply-To: <2F8793082E00D4119A1700B0D0216BF8022279D1@main2.marlow.com> Message-ID: <20040326195657.VRXF1780.imf23aec.mail.bellsouth.net@SUSANONE> VERY interesting. Have to give them half a point back, because there is a small amount of 'bloat', if you use a query/table for the lookup. But it's negligible, and also, both databases grow when you index the field, just grows a bit more. I would never really call that 'bloat'. Not trying to back track, but to me, bloat is when a database grows in size over time, but when compacted, it gets smaller. The portion that is 'reduced' is bloat. The portion left after the compact is 'overhead'. That's my definition. Admittedly, if you are going to run close to max db size, then lookups should be removed, to get that much more space. But we are talking overhead space, not really 'bloat'. ==============Wait!!!!!!!!!!! Is it true bloat, or just normal increase due to feature use. I mean, if you use it, it's going to cost something somewhere. So don't be so quick to label it -- but if it really bloat, then OK. :) Susan H. From jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com Fri Mar 26 13:59:25 2004 From: jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com (John W. Colby) Date: Fri, 26 Mar 2004 14:59:25 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Lookup Fields in Table Design In-Reply-To: <2F8793082E00D4119A1700B0D0216BF8022279D2@main2.marlow.com> Message-ID: >If a combobox based on the lookup is used in a form, and a filter is applied, the persistent filter effect of Access often saves the filter and the next time the form is opened, there will be a prompt for the value (which cannot be provided, thus creating an error). I have seen this too, though I never knew what was causing it! John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of DWUTKA at marlow.com Sent: Friday, March 26, 2004 2:43 PM To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: RE: [AccessD] Lookup Fields in Table Design Comments in-line: -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of John Bartow Sent: Friday, March 26, 2004 10:39 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] Lookup Fields in Table Design Here are "The Evils of Lookup Fields in Tables" from Dev's website: A Lookup field in a table displays the looked-up value. For instance, if a user opens a table datasheet and sees a column of company names, what is in the table is, in fact, a numeric CompanyID, and the table is linked with a select statement to the company table by that ID. (Dev's site says this adds confusion to a user, when looking at a well designed database structure. The key is, the users shouldn't really care how the database is designed. A lookup field is still storing the RIGHT data (ID's, in this case), it's just displaying differently, which is a catch 22. A user might be confused that what they are seeing isn't really in the table, but then again, they would probably be just as confused if they say the actual ID. Ever use Random ID's? If they saw Random ID values in there, it would mean practically nothing, but by seeing what the ID represents, they at least understand what's in that field). Any query that uses that lookup field to sort by that company name won't work. Nor will a query that uses a company name in that field as a criteria. If a user creates a combobox to select the company using a value list, the data in the table can be over-written. (This gives the impression that querying doesn't work against a lookup field. That is absolutely not true. it just means that you have to give criteria with the appropriate type. With a State Abbreviation lookup, where the field is text, and the lookup just gives a list of what text can be in there, this argument is null and void, because the field is the same whether it's lookup or not. But if you store an ID in the field, and the lookup shows text, then you just write querries the RIGHT way, and query that field with the ID. In fact, if you use a form for query criteria, you put a combobox, with the bound column being the ID, and the user doesn't know the difference at all. As far as a user creating a form with a value list combo box.....ummmm, if you let your users do that, you have a lot more problems to deal with, more important ones in fact.) Another relationship is created which then creates another set of indexes when a Lookup field is created, thus bloating the database unnecessarily. (This is true. ONLY if the lookup field is indexed though. You are already getting a size increase from the index, which speeds things up, so you are getting a minor increase if it's a lookup too. Again (from previous post), I don't consider this bloat, because it's just a part of how JET indexes stuff. We don't consider Indexing bloat, do we?) If a combobox based on the lookup is used in a form, and a filter is applied, the persistent filter effect of Access often saves the filter and the next time the form is opened, there will be a prompt for the value (which cannot be provided, thus creating an error). (Interesting, saw this on the site, haven't looked into it. This would be an issue, but so far the only one I would actually count. (Don't care about it though, I don't let my users filter my forms, unless it's a rare occasion). Reports based on the lookup field need a combobox to display the data, causing them to run more slowly. The underlying recordsource can also be modified to include the table, however the index, (unless it was set up within a proper relationship) may not be optimized. (Not true. You would have a query to link the data you want to display (unless you want to display an ID), and the joined field would be what goes in the report. Lookups have no affect on what controls you CAN put into place. Only sets what the default is). Lookup fields mask what is really happening, and hide good relational methodology from the user. (Ah, this is where I read it, not the first paragraph. What's the point? Users are confused with good relational methodology as it is. What's their point?) The database cannot be properly upsized to, or queried by, another engine (without removing all the lookup fields) because no other engines use or understand them. (Not sure what they are saying. I know that JET recognizes them, so JET can be used to pull the data anywhere you want.) If security is implemented, permissions to tables is usually denied, and RWOP queries are used for data access. There will often be errors that there are no permissions on a specific table that isn't even being used in a query (because the lookup field is). If the queries are nested or complex, it can take some time to track down the lookup that's causing the error (that is, if it occurs to you). (This is arguing about complexity. Yes, you should know what you are doing before developing something professionally. But that doesn't mean that if something should be used CORRECTLY that it should never be used at all. This paragraph is basically saying 'If you don't setup your Access User Level security correctly, you could get errors in your Lookups.' Well, DUH! You'll get errors all over the place.) http://www.mvps.org/access/tencommandments.htm So in conclusion, the only real valid point, IMHO, is the error involved with filtering forms. Would have to reproduce to determine where the issue lies with that. Drew -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From john at winhaven.net Fri Mar 26 13:58:22 2004 From: john at winhaven.net (John Bartow) Date: Fri, 26 Mar 2004 13:58:22 -0600 Subject: [AccessD] Lookup Fields in Table Design In-Reply-To: Message-ID: NO! Not referring to anyone on this list. -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Charlotte Foust Sent: Friday, March 26, 2004 1:26 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] Lookup Fields in Table Design >>most generally the "bully" of the group's mentality Are you talking about Drew?? Charlotte Foust -----Original Message----- From: John Bartow [mailto:john at winhaven.net] Sent: Friday, March 26, 2004 10:50 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] Lookup Fields in Table Design Charlotte, You'll find that most people are more strongly opinionated than I am (on many issues). While I may jest about starting flame wars, I really don't enjoy seeing people argue. However, I do enjoy seeing people debate an issue. Especially a group with as intelligent and capable people as we have here. There are many lists where one gets chastised for not conforming to the group mentality (most generally the "bully" of the group's mentality)- I don't stick around those lists very long - not because I can't take getting chastised but because there is really not much one can learn from people who think they have all of the answers for all eternity! And there is certainly little opportunity for me to "help" anyone in that situation. I do try to give back what I can on any list I am on (including directing people to this list). I question the status quo. I listen to all sides of an issue (and there are usually more than two sides). I make a decision. I recommend things based on informed decisions. I accept that not everyone is going to take my recommendations. I revisit my decisions on a regular basis to see if there are compelling reasons to change them. I believe this is why I am a very good "consultant". John PS: We'll just leave my capabilities as a "programmer" out of it! ;o) -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Charlotte Foust Sent: Friday, March 26, 2004 12:19 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] Lookup Fields in Table Design John, You are NOT getting into the spirit of this discussion. Reasonableness has no place here! Charlotte Foust -----Original Message----- From: John Bartow [mailto:john at winhaven.net] Sent: Friday, March 26, 2004 10:00 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] Lookup Fields in Table Design Here's a stretch but... For people that like to use the added form designing capabilites of the lookup property, once the table design and realtionships are complete you could set the desired lookup properties. Design all of the forms for the application. When the application design is complete you could run code that iterates the table collection and eliminates all lookup properties in the table design. This in essence would eliminate the corruption and performance issues. Eh? -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Charlotte Foust Sent: Friday, March 26, 2004 11:39 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] Lookup Fields in Table Design There is also the issue of TableID limits, which I believe include all the tables involved as lookups. Charlotte Foust -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From gustav at cactus.dk Fri Mar 26 13:59:55 2004 From: gustav at cactus.dk (Gustav Brock) Date: Fri, 26 Mar 2004 20:59:55 +0100 Subject: Lookup Fields: Was: RE: [AccessD] Fr@mework Discussion - set up q uestion In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <18844000289.20040326205955@cactus.dk> Hi Charlotte If you write protect the FE file, those bloating data will be directed into temp files. This, of course, will require that you design the FE to not redesign itself. /gustav > .. As for bloat, that is a major issue in Access > FEs, since that's where all the queries execute and all the temporary > queries cause the bloat. From DWUTKA at marlow.com Fri Mar 26 14:08:33 2004 From: DWUTKA at marlow.com (DWUTKA at marlow.com) Date: Fri, 26 Mar 2004 14:08:33 -0600 Subject: [AccessD] Lookup Fields in Table Design Message-ID: <2F8793082E00D4119A1700B0D0216BF8022279D4@main2.marlow.com> Gustav, my issue is this, saying that something is bad, and not giving actual reasons, is pushing your preferences on to people, as fact, instead of what they are, preferences. Everyone has had to learn something new at some point in time. When you learn something new, it's very handy to listen to people that have been there, and done that. It makes the learning curve a lot less steep! In fact, IMNSHO, that is the very purpose of this list. However, when someone is new to a subject, and you are teaching them your knowledge and experience, they probably won't have the foundation set, to allow them to differentiate between what is fact, and what is preference. That is YOUR job, as the teacher. There is nothing wrong with passing along your preferences, especially if you back up why you do what you do. However, saying that Lookups are BAD PRACTICE, is NOT passing on a fact, it's passing on a preference. If the statements made were something along the lines of, 'When you use Lookups, you need to make sure that stuff is well documented, that you are smart in your relational design, and that you understand how they work', then I would not have said a word. But instead, the general comment was 'Lookups are bad, because they bloat and slow down a database, and they are confusing.'. Very broad reasoning, and to a beginner, that could easily cement the idea that they should never use them. However, the 'bloat' is just part of indexing, which is something you definitely shouldn't avoid, indexes are good. The slowdown has yet to be proven (haven't seen it myself at all, in fact I proved otherwise), and the 'confusion' part is a catch 22, so it can't really be used. What may be confusing to some users, can be very helpful for others. I use ADO far more then I use DAO. I use ADO because I like the flexibility to switch between datasources. It makes my code a lot more portable. Do I pass on to others that DAO is bad, because I prefer ADO? No. In fact, I readily admit that DAO is native to JET, so it is more powerful when dealing with an .mdb. It's faster too. Faster and More powerful definitely don't point to 'do not use'. However, I try to explain that unless I absolutely need speed and/or power, I go for portability. With today's computers, the speed isn't nearly as critical in most of the stuff I develop, and the power only comes into play when there is specific stuff I need to do, which is rare, that DAO can do, and ADO can't. I leave it up to the learner, to determine what their preference is going to be. Have you ever heard an 'expert' tell a 'newbie' that field sizes are important to prevent database bloat? I have. Not kidding. I have seen so many databases where you can tell someone went beserk trying to 'maximize' their field design by messing with text field sizes. Hopefully the expert wasn't a complete moron, and actually knew that text fields take up only the space they need, (data plus one byte), and that using the text field size option merely limits what the user can actually put in. If that's the case, the 'expert' just prefers to control data input at the table level, instead of at an interface level. That's just a preference. But to gloss over the reason, by saying something that 'makes sense', but isn't exactly true, is wrong. That 'newbie' is walking away thinking they have learned a fact, but instead, they were misled. I'm not pointing this at you Gustav, not at all, just on my soap box at the moment. Drew -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Gustav Brock Sent: Friday, March 26, 2004 11:04 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Lookup Fields in Table Design Hi all lookuppers Maybe I'm dense but - as mentioned by Ken - if you really need the feature of lookup fields (and I did once for some superuser administrative tasks performed once a year or never, thus not justifying design of eight forms) you simply - in a separate frontend database - create some queries retrieving exactly the fields you need (which excludes the ID), readable aliases for the fields, and lookups as needed. Then everybody is happy. You avoid fiddling with the table design and you can easily redesign the queries if and when needed and you take advantage of a feature of Access which can be handy. And this discussion becomes moot (isn't that the wording for such a situation you use "over there"?) /gustav > Here are "The Evils of Lookup Fields in Tables" from Dev's website: > A Lookup field in a table displays the looked-up value. For instance, if a > user opens a table datasheet and sees a column of company names, what is in > the table is, in fact, a numeric CompanyID, and the table is linked with a > select statement to the company table by that ID. > Any query that uses that lookup field to sort by that company name won't > work. Nor will a query that uses a company name in that field as a criteria. > If a user creates a combobox to select the company using a value list, the > data in the table can be over-written. > Another relationship is created which then creates another set of indexes > when a Lookup field is created, thus bloating the database unnecessarily. > If a combobox based on the lookup is used in a form, and a filter is > applied, the persistent filter effect of Access often saves the filter and > the next time the form is opened, there will be a prompt for the value > (which cannot be provided, thus creating an error). > Reports based on the lookup field need a combobox to display the data, > causing them to run more slowly. The underlying recordsource can also be > modified to include the table, however the index, (unless it was set up > within a proper relationship) may not be optimized. > Lookup fields mask what is really happening, and hide good relational > methodology from the user. > The database cannot be properly upsized to, or queried by, another engine > (without removing all the lookup fields) because no other engines use or > understand them. > If security is implemented, permissions to tables is usually denied, and > RWOP queries are used for data access. There will often be errors that there > are no permissions on a specific table that isn't even being used in a query > (because the lookup field is). If the queries are nested or complex, it can > take some time to track down the lookup that's causing the error (that is, > if it occurs to you). > http://www.mvps.org/access/tencommandments.htm -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From DWUTKA at marlow.com Fri Mar 26 14:11:24 2004 From: DWUTKA at marlow.com (DWUTKA at marlow.com) Date: Fri, 26 Mar 2004 14:11:24 -0600 Subject: [AccessD] Lookup Fields in Table Design Message-ID: <2F8793082E00D4119A1700B0D0216BF8022279D5@main2.marlow.com> What's the TableID limit? (value and explanation) Drew -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Charlotte Foust Sent: Friday, March 26, 2004 11:39 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] Lookup Fields in Table Design There is also the issue of TableID limits, which I believe include all the tables involved as lookups. Charlotte Foust -----Original Message----- From: Gustav Brock [mailto:gustav at cactus.dk] Sent: Friday, March 26, 2004 9:04 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Lookup Fields in Table Design Hi all lookuppers Maybe I'm dense but - as mentioned by Ken - if you really need the feature of lookup fields (and I did once for some superuser administrative tasks performed once a year or never, thus not justifying design of eight forms) you simply - in a separate frontend database - create some queries retrieving exactly the fields you need (which excludes the ID), readable aliases for the fields, and lookups as needed. Then everybody is happy. You avoid fiddling with the table design and you can easily redesign the queries if and when needed and you take advantage of a feature of Access which can be handy. And this discussion becomes moot (isn't that the wording for such a situation you use "over there"?) /gustav > Here are "The Evils of Lookup Fields in Tables" from Dev's website: > A Lookup field in a table displays the looked-up value. For instance, > if a user opens a table datasheet and sees a column of company names, > what is in the table is, in fact, a numeric CompanyID, and the table > is linked with a select statement to the company table by that ID. > Any query that uses that lookup field to sort by that company name > won't work. Nor will a query that uses a company name in that field as > a criteria. If a user creates a combobox to select the company using a > value list, the data in the table can be over-written. > Another relationship is created which then creates another set of > indexes when a Lookup field is created, thus bloating the database > unnecessarily. > If a combobox based on the lookup is used in a form, and a filter is > applied, the persistent filter effect of Access often saves the filter > and the next time the form is opened, there will be a prompt for the > value (which cannot be provided, thus creating an error). > Reports based on the lookup field need a combobox to display the data, > causing them to run more slowly. The underlying recordsource can also > be modified to include the table, however the index, (unless it was > set up within a proper relationship) may not be optimized. > Lookup fields mask what is really happening, and hide good relational > methodology from the user. > The database cannot be properly upsized to, or queried by, another > engine (without removing all the lookup fields) because no other > engines use or understand them. > If security is implemented, permissions to tables is usually denied, > and RWOP queries are used for data access. There will often be errors > that there are no permissions on a specific table that isn't even > being used in a query (because the lookup field is). If the queries > are nested or complex, it can take some time to track down the lookup > that's causing the error (that is, if it occurs to you). > http://www.mvps.org/access/tencommandments.htm -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From DWUTKA at marlow.com Fri Mar 26 14:13:06 2004 From: DWUTKA at marlow.com (DWUTKA at marlow.com) Date: Fri, 26 Mar 2004 14:13:06 -0600 Subject: [AccessD] Framework Discussion - set up question Message-ID: <2F8793082E00D4119A1700B0D0216BF8022279D6@main2.marlow.com> Probably. Sorry. I've provided two step by step examples, that show no speed decrease. So I'm just a little excited to find something I didn't see. Because that one example, using a Callback function, showed what should have been a massive time delay, but there was none at all, until you actually tried to list the combo. Drew -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Charlotte Foust Sent: Friday, March 26, 2004 11:41 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] Framework Discussion - set up question Isn't that a bit strident, Drew? Ken will get you an example when he gets it to you. Either be polite or go to your corner. Charlotte Foust -----Original Message----- From: DWUTKA at marlow.com [mailto:DWUTKA at marlow.com] Sent: Friday, March 26, 2004 8:46 AM To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: RE: [AccessD] Framework Discussion - set up question Ken, still waiting on your example database. Everything I have tested shows that Lookup fields are NOT used until they are entered, with the exception of a brief check if the referenced tables/querries exist. Drew -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Ken Ismert Sent: Thursday, March 25, 2004 8:19 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: [AccessD] Framework Discussion - set up question -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From gustav at cactus.dk Fri Mar 26 14:22:16 2004 From: gustav at cactus.dk (Gustav Brock) Date: Fri, 26 Mar 2004 21:22:16 +0100 Subject: [AccessD] Lookup Fields in Table Design In-Reply-To: <20040326195346.VQLT1780.imf23aec.mail.bellsouth.net@SUSANONE> References: <20040326195346.VQLT1780.imf23aec.mail.bellsouth.net@SUSANONE> Message-ID: <13445341026.20040326212216@cactus.dk> Hi Susan > And this discussion becomes moot (isn't that the wording for such a > situation you use "over there"?) > ========Typical developer response. :) You assume the average user knows how > to do that -- controls inherit the lookup field, so the user doesn't even > need to bother -- it is already there! It isn't moot yet. ;) You are right. I have yet to see a user using Access as a desktop application - they just don't understand what a relational database is - and I only deal with split database design. /gustav From DWUTKA at marlow.com Fri Mar 26 14:28:47 2004 From: DWUTKA at marlow.com (DWUTKA at marlow.com) Date: Fri, 26 Mar 2004 14:28:47 -0600 Subject: [AccessD] Lookup Fields in Table Design Message-ID: <2F8793082E00D4119A1700B0D0216BF8022279D7@main2.marlow.com> And like I said to Gustav, that is EXACTLY why I got into this thread. You can't really understand something, if you can't challenge stuff with a 'why not?'. And if the answer doesn't really wash, you need to drill down until you find the real 'why not', or until you find that you 'can'. It's like the SendKeys issue. Yes, Sendkeys has a bug, which causes the Numlock key to change state. WAY too many people say that you should NEVER use the SendKeys statement, unless it's a dire emergency. That's wrong. Because, if you use the Sendkeys statement, emergency or not, you are probably going to run into the bug. So you have to see if you can handle the bug, which you can. You check (and store) the state of the numlock key before Sendkeys, and then check (and restore if necessary) the state of the numlock key afterwards. So, if you use the Sendkeys in a spot where you absolutely have to, you should put in code to handle the bug, which then makes the Sendkeys function safe. Since it's safe to use then, it also makes it safe to use everywhere else. Granted, the real reason you shouldn't use sendkeys, is because you are trying to 'mimic' a user interaction, and in cases where there is a strictly code interaction method, you should use the code interaction method instead, because there is no chance of the users 'goofing' what you are sending. (A user might try to type into a box, or react to an interface, but if you can avoid the interface, and do what you need to, through code, then you eliminate that risk). Almost makes you wonder if Microsoft put the Numlock bug into Sendkeys to give them a reason to tell people not to use it! LOL There are a LOT of little things that are put out as 'law', but are really guidelines, or methods that people used to get to a certain spot, and then stopped. Like hiding the Access window. If you hide the Access window, you need to have an open 'pop-up' form visible, for the users to interact with the database. If you close that form, but don't 'show' Access, you now have an open instance of Access, that looks like you can't get to it. A lot of people/sites warn that you have to close it through the Task Manager. Not true, you just need to know more code, because you can tell windows to make the Access window visible again. It's not too difficult, because the Microsoft Access window has a class of OMain, which is unique to Access. (every version so far (97 and up, don't know about previous versions). It is also said that you need to set the modal property to true in A2k and up. Which is also not true, you can get around it with another ShowWindow() API call. All I am saying is that I'm tired of hearing things that are 'bad practice', when they are really just preferences. No spaces in table names, that's a bad practice, there is solid reasoning behind it. Using SendKeys isn't bad practice. Using it willy nilly, and not 'capturing' the bug with Numlock code, THAT's bad practice. But using it when necessary, and protecting against the bug, that's not bad practice, in fact, that's GOOD practice. Just my humble opinion. Drew -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of John Bartow Sent: Friday, March 26, 2004 11:55 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] Lookup Fields in Table Design Hi Gustav: "moot" would be the correct word - if it really applied ;o) I actually do things the way you describe. But I do it based on other developers advice that I never really questioned before. I believe the discussion is: why not (use the lookups property)? For instance, when I did use it on a particular project where it fit the need it did make form design quicker and easier (once I adjusted to it). It makes placing combo boxes (in my case to lookup a foreign key) very simple. Just drag the control out and forget about it. A one step process. Being suspicious that it would cause problems later I went back to how I had done it previously. The 2 or 3 extra steps when placing a combo box really isn't adding a lot of overhead to my overall development time. But it does beg the question: why not? John B. -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Gustav Brock Sent: Friday, March 26, 2004 11:04 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Lookup Fields in Table Design Hi all lookuppers Maybe I'm dense but - as mentioned by Ken - if you really need the feature of lookup fields (and I did once for some superuser administrative tasks performed once a year or never, thus not justifying design of eight forms) you simply - in a separate frontend database - create some queries retrieving exactly the fields you need (which excludes the ID), readable aliases for the fields, and lookups as needed. Then everybody is happy. You avoid fiddling with the table design and you can easily redesign the queries if and when needed and you take advantage of a feature of Access which can be handy. And this discussion becomes moot (isn't that the wording for such a situation you use "over there"?) /gustav > Here are "The Evils of Lookup Fields in Tables" from Dev's website: > A Lookup field in a table displays the looked-up value. For instance, if a > user opens a table datasheet and sees a column of company names, what is in > the table is, in fact, a numeric CompanyID, and the table is linked with a > select statement to the company table by that ID. > Any query that uses that lookup field to sort by that company name won't > work. Nor will a query that uses a company name in that field as a criteria. > If a user creates a combobox to select the company using a value list, the > data in the table can be over-written. > Another relationship is created which then creates another set of indexes > when a Lookup field is created, thus bloating the database unnecessarily. > If a combobox based on the lookup is used in a form, and a filter is > applied, the persistent filter effect of Access often saves the filter and > the next time the form is opened, there will be a prompt for the value > (which cannot be provided, thus creating an error). > Reports based on the lookup field need a combobox to display the data, > causing them to run more slowly. The underlying recordsource can also be > modified to include the table, however the index, (unless it was set up > within a proper relationship) may not be optimized. > Lookup fields mask what is really happening, and hide good relational > methodology from the user. > The database cannot be properly upsized to, or queried by, another engine > (without removing all the lookup fields) because no other engines use or > understand them. > If security is implemented, permissions to tables is usually denied, and > RWOP queries are used for data access. There will often be errors that there > are no permissions on a specific table that isn't even being used in a query > (because the lookup field is). If the queries are nested or complex, it can > take some time to track down the lookup that's causing the error (that is, > if it occurs to you). > http://www.mvps.org/access/tencommandments.htm -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From DWUTKA at marlow.com Fri Mar 26 14:30:01 2004 From: DWUTKA at marlow.com (DWUTKA at marlow.com) Date: Fri, 26 Mar 2004 14:30:01 -0600 Subject: [AccessD] Lookup Fields in Table Design Message-ID: <2F8793082E00D4119A1700B0D0216BF8022279D8@main2.marlow.com> Hey, I'm not arguing for the sake of arguing here! Drew -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Charlotte Foust Sent: Friday, March 26, 2004 12:19 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] Lookup Fields in Table Design John, You are NOT getting into the spirit of this discussion. Reasonableness has no place here! Charlotte Foust -----Original Message----- From: John Bartow [mailto:john at winhaven.net] Sent: Friday, March 26, 2004 10:00 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] Lookup Fields in Table Design Here's a stretch but... For people that like to use the added form designing capabilites of the lookup property, once the table design and realtionships are complete you could set the desired lookup properties. Design all of the forms for the application. When the application design is complete you could run code that iterates the table collection and eliminates all lookup properties in the table design. This in essence would eliminate the corruption and performance issues. Eh? -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Charlotte Foust Sent: Friday, March 26, 2004 11:39 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] Lookup Fields in Table Design There is also the issue of TableID limits, which I believe include all the tables involved as lookups. Charlotte Foust -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From DWUTKA at marlow.com Fri Mar 26 14:30:58 2004 From: DWUTKA at marlow.com (DWUTKA at marlow.com) Date: Fri, 26 Mar 2004 14:30:58 -0600 Subject: [AccessD] Lookup Fields in Table Design Message-ID: <2F8793082E00D4119A1700B0D0216BF8022279D9@main2.marlow.com> And there's nothing wrong with that at all. Not arguing that they SHOULD be used, just arguing that there is really no big reason not too. I knew I liked you for some reason gustav! LOL Drew -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Gustav Brock Sent: Friday, March 26, 2004 12:45 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Lookup Fields in Table Design Hi John > I believe the discussion is: why not (use the lookups property)? In that case I can't tell; I've just never felt the need as form design for my part never is "very simple" and I always use queries as recordsource for forms and combos. For me tables are tables. However, if anyone find lookups in tables of value, feel free - but I don't think I'll join the party. As I told, I've used them once (in queries) only) - that's all. /gustav -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From KIsmert at TexasSystems.com Fri Mar 26 14:33:06 2004 From: KIsmert at TexasSystems.com (Ken Ismert) Date: Fri, 26 Mar 2004 14:33:06 -0600 Subject: [AccessD] Lookup Fields in Table Design In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <004001c41371$8c3b1150$2a3ca8c0@TEXASSYSTEMS.COM> McCool. If you have code that does that, I'd love to see it. -Ken -----Original Message----- From: John Bartow [mailto:john at winhaven.net] Sent: Friday, March 26, 2004 12:00 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] Lookup Fields in Table Design Here's a stretch but... For people that like to use the added form designing capabilites of the lookup property, once the table design and realtionships are complete you could set the desired lookup properties. Design all of the forms for the application. When the application design is complete you could run code that iterates the table collection and eliminates all lookup properties in the table design. This in essence would eliminate the corruption and performance issues. Eh? -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Charlotte Foust Sent: Friday, March 26, 2004 11:39 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] Lookup Fields in Table Design There is also the issue of TableID limits, which I believe include all the tables involved as lookups. Charlotte Foust From KIsmert at TexasSystems.com Fri Mar 26 14:36:42 2004 From: KIsmert at TexasSystems.com (Ken Ismert) Date: Fri, 26 Mar 2004 14:36:42 -0600 Subject: [AccessD] Lookup Fields in Table Design Message-ID: <004101c41372$0cda2940$2a3ca8c0@TEXASSYSTEMS.COM> Drew, Charlotte, all: To be entirely fair, I looked again at my test db, and found that a form based on the reference (non-lookup) table, using a lookup combo, produced roughly the same results as the form based on the table with lookup fields defined. So, I think we are laboring under different ideas of performance. Charlotte and I are correct in the sense that you carry the table lookup baggage in every query and form based on that table, whether you want it or not, unless you take steps to turn it off. This, I think, complicates the straightforward construction of queries, forms and reports. Drew is correct that there exists in Access a very complex and undocumented mechanism that will turn Off and On the table lookup feature, depending on its deduced context, which produces basically the same timed results in casual tests. This mechanism goes so far as to extend its reach from back to frontend. AFAIK, it is unique to Access. I think I have clearly demonstrated cases, both evidential and anecdotal, that show that this mechanism is not entirely trustworthy. I guess I am a reductionist in this regard. Take something, like a table, and strip it to its bare essentials. After all, parts you don't include will never fail or need repair. Then, where appropriate, add those parts in their proper context. Contrast this to the constructionist approach, which would add everything you could possibly need or want to the table, then turn around and strip out those parts where you don't need them, all the while trusting that this truly black box mechanism will magically provide you with the best performance. If you've done EVERYTHING correctly, you will probably get away with table lookup fields. This includes: using small, indexed lookup tables that don't grow; and appropriate indexes on all main tables. But without question, you've introduced needless fragility into your table design. Later on, if you change an index while tuning your table structures, you may find that the performance of some unrelated queries goes to crap, and I bet that the table lookup won't be the first thing that leaps to mind when trying to find the cause. Tell me, who in the general database community thinks this is a good idea? Please, show me the data modeling book that has a step that says "embed client-side UI elements in the table design". Looking beyond the uncertainty that table lookup fields introduce to the reliability of the backend, I honestly can't see how you are going to get ahead in the long run with it. It fills no functional niche that isn't covered by more standard, broadly accepted techniques. Finally, it is the little hassles that this feature consistently gives that have caused me to largely abandon it. -Ken From DWUTKA at marlow.com Fri Mar 26 14:38:59 2004 From: DWUTKA at marlow.com (DWUTKA at marlow.com) Date: Fri, 26 Mar 2004 14:38:59 -0600 Subject: [AccessD] Lookup Fields in Table Design Message-ID: <2F8793082E00D4119A1700B0D0216BF8022279DA@main2.marlow.com> Well put, three points for the score keeper...that puts you in second place! LOL Drew -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of John Bartow Sent: Friday, March 26, 2004 12:50 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] Lookup Fields in Table Design Charlotte, You'll find that most people are more strongly opinionated than I am (on many issues). While I may jest about starting flame wars, I really don't enjoy seeing people argue. However, I do enjoy seeing people debate an issue. Especially a group with as intelligent and capable people as we have here. There are many lists where one gets chastised for not conforming to the group mentality (most generally the "bully" of the group's mentality)- I don't stick around those lists very long - not because I can't take getting chastised but because there is really not much one can learn from people who think they have all of the answers for all eternity! And there is certainly little opportunity for me to "help" anyone in that situation. I do try to give back what I can on any list I am on (including directing people to this list). I question the status quo. I listen to all sides of an issue (and there are usually more than two sides). I make a decision. I recommend things based on informed decisions. I accept that not everyone is going to take my recommendations. I revisit my decisions on a regular basis to see if there are compelling reasons to change them. I believe this is why I am a very good "consultant". John PS: We'll just leave my capabilities as a "programmer" out of it! ;o) -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Charlotte Foust Sent: Friday, March 26, 2004 12:19 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] Lookup Fields in Table Design John, You are NOT getting into the spirit of this discussion. Reasonableness has no place here! Charlotte Foust -----Original Message----- From: John Bartow [mailto:john at winhaven.net] Sent: Friday, March 26, 2004 10:00 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] Lookup Fields in Table Design Here's a stretch but... For people that like to use the added form designing capabilites of the lookup property, once the table design and realtionships are complete you could set the desired lookup properties. Design all of the forms for the application. When the application design is complete you could run code that iterates the table collection and eliminates all lookup properties in the table design. This in essence would eliminate the corruption and performance issues. Eh? -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Charlotte Foust Sent: Friday, March 26, 2004 11:39 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] Lookup Fields in Table Design There is also the issue of TableID limits, which I believe include all the tables involved as lookups. Charlotte Foust -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From DWUTKA at marlow.com Fri Mar 26 14:46:04 2004 From: DWUTKA at marlow.com (DWUTKA at marlow.com) Date: Fri, 26 Mar 2004 14:46:04 -0600 Subject: [AccessD] Lookup Fields in Table Design Message-ID: <2F8793082E00D4119A1700B0D0216BF8022279DB@main2.marlow.com> Hit below the belt. Charlotte, back to your corner! LOL Actually, I think I'd rather be known as the Crusador of the Self Taughts. I like to challenge the 'bad practice' stuff a lot, because I have found that a lot (certainly not all) is based solely on developer limitations, not actually system limitations. If you look at the sides I have been on, I am rarely saying people MUST do something, but instead, they CAN do something, if they choose to. Like the bound/unbound debate. I was simply pointing out that there is nothing wrong with an unbound form. There are times where it is easier to use an unbound form. There are also times where it is easier to use a bound form. But saying that unbound forms are bad practice, or a waste of time, is not right (it doesn't apply to bound forms either). Also, like the original thread, Frameworks are handy. They aren't good for every situation, but they certainly can be useful in other situations. JC has done a superb job of bring light to the subject, and has written excellent code examples. I must admit I don't prefix my Class objects, and variables the same way, but if JC gave me code, and said it will do what it's supposed to, I would have absolute faith that it would. If JC needed me to write code for him, and said, 'hey, use my naming convention, and work within my framework', I would have no problem doing so. Then again, if JC said 'Drew, develop this, but don't use API's because their vauge and mysterious, and don't use indexing, because it'll bloat the database and it's just a lazy way for developers to speed up their applications, instead, roll your own indexing', I'd look at him like he was nuts! (Not picking on ya JC....LOL) Drew -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Charlotte Foust Sent: Friday, March 26, 2004 1:26 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] Lookup Fields in Table Design >>most generally the "bully" of the group's mentality Are you talking about Drew?? Charlotte Foust -----Original Message----- From: John Bartow [mailto:john at winhaven.net] Sent: Friday, March 26, 2004 10:50 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] Lookup Fields in Table Design Charlotte, You'll find that most people are more strongly opinionated than I am (on many issues). While I may jest about starting flame wars, I really don't enjoy seeing people argue. However, I do enjoy seeing people debate an issue. Especially a group with as intelligent and capable people as we have here. There are many lists where one gets chastised for not conforming to the group mentality (most generally the "bully" of the group's mentality)- I don't stick around those lists very long - not because I can't take getting chastised but because there is really not much one can learn from people who think they have all of the answers for all eternity! And there is certainly little opportunity for me to "help" anyone in that situation. I do try to give back what I can on any list I am on (including directing people to this list). I question the status quo. I listen to all sides of an issue (and there are usually more than two sides). I make a decision. I recommend things based on informed decisions. I accept that not everyone is going to take my recommendations. I revisit my decisions on a regular basis to see if there are compelling reasons to change them. I believe this is why I am a very good "consultant". John PS: We'll just leave my capabilities as a "programmer" out of it! ;o) -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Charlotte Foust Sent: Friday, March 26, 2004 12:19 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] Lookup Fields in Table Design John, You are NOT getting into the spirit of this discussion. Reasonableness has no place here! Charlotte Foust -----Original Message----- From: John Bartow [mailto:john at winhaven.net] Sent: Friday, March 26, 2004 10:00 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] Lookup Fields in Table Design Here's a stretch but... For people that like to use the added form designing capabilites of the lookup property, once the table design and realtionships are complete you could set the desired lookup properties. Design all of the forms for the application. When the application design is complete you could run code that iterates the table collection and eliminates all lookup properties in the table design. This in essence would eliminate the corruption and performance issues. Eh? -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Charlotte Foust Sent: Friday, March 26, 2004 11:39 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] Lookup Fields in Table Design There is also the issue of TableID limits, which I believe include all the tables involved as lookups. Charlotte Foust -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From DWUTKA at marlow.com Fri Mar 26 14:49:09 2004 From: DWUTKA at marlow.com (DWUTKA at marlow.com) Date: Fri, 26 Mar 2004 14:49:09 -0600 Subject: Lookup Fields: Was: RE: [AccessD] Fr@mework Discussion - set up q uestion Message-ID: <2F8793082E00D4119A1700B0D0216BF8022279DC@main2.marlow.com> But I still develop some Access FE's. And when I do, I DO use Lookups. I'm not arguing that you SHOULD use them, I am saying that there is isn't much there, to label them as 'bad'. Also, as far as bloat in Access FE's, I almost never have an issue with that. I do WAY too much stuff with code, which prevents almost all of the bloat issues I have seen other FE's have. (I'll definitely admit I am a code head....LOL) Drew -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Charlotte Foust Sent: Friday, March 26, 2004 1:50 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: Lookup Fields: Was: RE: [AccessD] Fr at mework Discussion - set up q uestion I think that's where some of the argument comes in, Drew. Those of us who work entirely in Access FEs have a different perspective on some of the things you discount. As for bloat, that is a major issue in Access FEs, since that's where all the queries execute and all the temporary queries cause the bloat. Charlotte Foust -----Original Message----- From: DWUTKA at marlow.com [mailto:DWUTKA at marlow.com] Sent: Friday, March 26, 2004 11:46 AM To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: RE: Lookup Fields: Was: RE: [AccessD] Fr at mework Discussion - set up q uestion If you get right down to it, MOST of my development is in VB 6 or ASP, for front ends, so Access forms aren't that big a deal for me. But I do develop Access FE's from time to time, and have yet to see the harm in using Lookups when necessary. Plus, with VB or ASP front ends, it's handy to go in and see the data. Putting lookups in, allows me to look at applicable information in the tables, instead of pk's, which have no real meaning to what I am looking for. (Most of the time. sometimes I do want to see the pks, so then I just turn the lookups off!) Drew -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Francisco H Tapia Sent: Friday, March 26, 2004 11:02 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: Lookup Fields: Was: RE: [AccessD] Fr at mework Discussion - set up q uestion DWUTKA at marlow.com said the following on 3/26/2004 8:38 AM: >Let me ask you a question though, because you and I have agreed on a >lot of other things before, so I'm a little shocked on your position on >this. If you have an Address table, (for US clients....for this >example), and you want to get the two letter state abbreviation, do you >simply give them a textbox, or do you give them a combo that builds >itself from a 'State' table? I go with the state table. And since I >may have multiple forms based on that table, I usually use a Lookup >field, so that when I build the form, that combo is predefined. > > This particular example is kind of bad (for me), because I try to create one form for one purpose, thus the data entry screen for addresses is done on one form, thus end users use the same form to add/edit addresses that require the combobox that points to a table of states. So yes, that's a lookup on the "FORM" not the base table. That has no point... so I have one need for the state combobox.. why build it at the table level? and I encourage for my users to type in the zipcode first so they don't usually search for states... :) -- -Francisco -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From DWUTKA at marlow.com Fri Mar 26 14:51:17 2004 From: DWUTKA at marlow.com (DWUTKA at marlow.com) Date: Fri, 26 Mar 2004 14:51:17 -0600 Subject: [AccessD] Lookup Fields in Table Design Message-ID: <2F8793082E00D4119A1700B0D0216BF8022279DD@main2.marlow.com> Just different experiences I guess. I've had locking files (in Word and Excel) go south more often then the actual document. Can't recall an .ldb locking issue. I have seen main doc corruption too, just more frequently (in what I have experienced), it was the locking file, which is a LOT easier to recover from! LOL. Drew -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Bryan Carbonnell Sent: Friday, March 26, 2004 1:53 PM To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: RE: [AccessD] Lookup Fields in Table Design I'll partially disagree with you on this point Drew. >The more common issues with Word and Excel are the 'locking' files >original document is more rare (but not unheard of...excel and word have to Corruption of the main doc is not more rare. I have had more Word doc go south on me than any type locking file or mdb or any other file. I have never heard of a locking file getting corrupt. I have never had an Excel doc go south, so I can't speak about which is more common in Excel. Bryan Carbonnell bryan_carbonnell at cbc.ca >>> DWUTKA at marlow.com 26-Mar-04 2:27:58 PM >>> file. The more common issues with Word and Excel are the 'locking' files. Something will goof in them, and then that file is locked out. Since Word/Excel is saving changes in those temp files, actual corruption in the original document is more rare (but not unheard of...excel and word have to update the original document when you save it, so that is when corruption can occur there). -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From DWUTKA at marlow.com Fri Mar 26 14:52:56 2004 From: DWUTKA at marlow.com (DWUTKA at marlow.com) Date: Fri, 26 Mar 2004 14:52:56 -0600 Subject: [AccessD] Lookup Fields in Table Design Message-ID: <2F8793082E00D4119A1700B0D0216BF8022279DE@main2.marlow.com> I know I can always count on you to stoke the fire when the embers seem to be settling! LOL Still waiting on the performance loss 'proof'. I thought my Callback function which delayed each row by a second would have nailed the coffin shut on that....apparently not. UGH. Drew -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Susan Harkins Sent: Friday, March 26, 2004 1:54 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: [AccessD] Lookup Fields in Table Design And this discussion becomes moot (isn't that the wording for such a situation you use "over there"?) ========Typical developer response. :) You assume the average user knows how to do that -- controls inherit the lookup field, so the user doesn't even need to bother -- it is already there! It isn't moot yet. ;) Susan H. -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From DWUTKA at marlow.com Fri Mar 26 14:56:23 2004 From: DWUTKA at marlow.com (DWUTKA at marlow.com) Date: Fri, 26 Mar 2004 14:56:23 -0600 Subject: [AccessD] Lookup Fields in Table Design Message-ID: <2F8793082E00D4119A1700B0D0216BF8022279DF@main2.marlow.com> I honestly don't know until testing it a lot, because like we both are saying, if it's only increase in size, due to the indexing space requirements, that the cost of a feature...yippie, and it's not much at that! However, if over time, you get small amounts used in temporary space, I still think it's a moot point on that, but it would technically be bloat. Not much though. Not like making massive temp tables, to show a report, instead of querying the data the right way. THAT, to me, is bloat. The querries might use a little space, but I always thought that JET kept that stuff out of the database.....no Mountain Dew at work right now though, so my brain is running low on caffiene, may be just making that part up! LOL Drew -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Susan Harkins Sent: Friday, March 26, 2004 1:57 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: [AccessD] Lookup Fields in Table Design VERY interesting. Have to give them half a point back, because there is a small amount of 'bloat', if you use a query/table for the lookup. But it's negligible, and also, both databases grow when you index the field, just grows a bit more. I would never really call that 'bloat'. Not trying to back track, but to me, bloat is when a database grows in size over time, but when compacted, it gets smaller. The portion that is 'reduced' is bloat. The portion left after the compact is 'overhead'. That's my definition. Admittedly, if you are going to run close to max db size, then lookups should be removed, to get that much more space. But we are talking overhead space, not really 'bloat'. ==============Wait!!!!!!!!!!! Is it true bloat, or just normal increase due to feature use. I mean, if you use it, it's going to cost something somewhere. So don't be so quick to label it -- but if it really bloat, then OK. :) Susan H. -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From ssharkins at bellsouth.net Fri Mar 26 15:03:02 2004 From: ssharkins at bellsouth.net (Susan Harkins) Date: Fri, 26 Mar 2004 16:03:02 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Lookup Fields in Table Design In-Reply-To: <13445341026.20040326212216@cactus.dk> Message-ID: <20040326210257.JRPL1763.imf25aec.mail.bellsouth.net@SUSANONE> You are right. I have yet to see a user using Access as a desktop application - they just don't understand what a relational database is - and I only deal with split database design. ==John, I guess Gustav has earned the nays a half point, just for politeness! ;) Susan H. From jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com Fri Mar 26 15:08:11 2004 From: jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com (John W. Colby) Date: Fri, 26 Mar 2004 16:08:11 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Lookup Fields in Table Design In-Reply-To: <2F8793082E00D4119A1700B0D0216BF8022279DB@main2.marlow.com> Message-ID: >'Drew, develop this, but don't use API's because their vauge and mysterious, and don't use indexing, because it'll bloat the database and it's just a lazy way for developers to speed up their applications, instead, roll your own indexing', I'd look at him like he was nuts! If I said that I would hope that you would slap me around a bit. John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of DWUTKA at marlow.com Sent: Friday, March 26, 2004 3:46 PM To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: RE: [AccessD] Lookup Fields in Table Design Hit below the belt. Charlotte, back to your corner! LOL Actually, I think I'd rather be known as the Crusador of the Self Taughts. I like to challenge the 'bad practice' stuff a lot, because I have found that a lot (certainly not all) is based solely on developer limitations, not actually system limitations. If you look at the sides I have been on, I am rarely saying people MUST do something, but instead, they CAN do something, if they choose to. Like the bound/unbound debate. I was simply pointing out that there is nothing wrong with an unbound form. There are times where it is easier to use an unbound form. There are also times where it is easier to use a bound form. But saying that unbound forms are bad practice, or a waste of time, is not right (it doesn't apply to bound forms either). Also, like the original thread, Frameworks are handy. They aren't good for every situation, but they certainly can be useful in other situations. JC has done a superb job of bring light to the subject, and has written excellent code examples. I must admit I don't prefix my Class objects, and variables the same way, but if JC gave me code, and said it will do what it's supposed to, I would have absolute faith that it would. If JC needed me to write code for him, and said, 'hey, use my naming convention, and work within my framework', I would have no problem doing so. Then again, if JC said 'Drew, develop this, but don't use API's because their vauge and mysterious, and don't use indexing, because it'll bloat the database and it's just a lazy way for developers to speed up their applications, instead, roll your own indexing', I'd look at him like he was nuts! (Not picking on ya JC....LOL) Drew From ssharkins at bellsouth.net Fri Mar 26 15:07:19 2004 From: ssharkins at bellsouth.net (Susan Harkins) Date: Fri, 26 Mar 2004 16:07:19 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Lookup Fields in Table Design In-Reply-To: <2F8793082E00D4119A1700B0D0216BF8022279DE@main2.marlow.com> Message-ID: <20040326210714.JTGU1763.imf25aec.mail.bellsouth.net@SUSANONE> I know I can always count on you to stoke the fire when the embers seem to be settling! LOL ============Me? I am SO misunderstood! ;) Susan H. From dmcafee at pacbell.net Fri Mar 26 15:08:32 2004 From: dmcafee at pacbell.net (David McAfee (Home)) Date: Fri, 26 Mar 2004 13:08:32 -0800 Subject: [AccessD] Lookup Fields in Table Design In-Reply-To: <2F8793082E00D4119A1700B0D0216BF8022279D7@main2.marlow.com> Message-ID: No Drew, its more like you shouldn't use bound forms, only unbound! :P David -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of DWUTKA at marlow.com Sent: Friday, March 26, 2004 12:29 PM To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: RE: [AccessD] Lookup Fields in Table Design And like I said to Gustav, that is EXACTLY why I got into this thread. You can't really understand something, if you can't challenge stuff with a 'why not?'. And if the answer doesn't really wash, you need to drill down until you find the real 'why not', or until you find that you 'can'. It's like the SendKeys issue. Yes, Sendkeys has a bug, which causes the Numlock key to change state. WAY too many people say that you should NEVER use the SendKeys statement, unless it's a dire emergency. From ssharkins at bellsouth.net Fri Mar 26 15:11:04 2004 From: ssharkins at bellsouth.net (Susan Harkins) Date: Fri, 26 Mar 2004 16:11:04 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Lookup Fields in Table Design In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <20040326211100.JUVT1763.imf25aec.mail.bellsouth.net@SUSANONE> OK, I relinquish my position as main troublemaker. Obviously, I have been outmaneuvered. :) Susan H. No Drew, its more like you shouldn't use bound forms, only unbound! :P David From jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com Fri Mar 26 15:23:46 2004 From: jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com (John W. Colby) Date: Fri, 26 Mar 2004 16:23:46 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Lookup Fields in Table Design In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Hey!!! And frameworks are useless too I suppose? John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of David McAfee (Home) Sent: Friday, March 26, 2004 4:09 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] Lookup Fields in Table Design No Drew, its more like you shouldn't use bound forms, only unbound! :P David -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of DWUTKA at marlow.com Sent: Friday, March 26, 2004 12:29 PM To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: RE: [AccessD] Lookup Fields in Table Design And like I said to Gustav, that is EXACTLY why I got into this thread. You can't really understand something, if you can't challenge stuff with a 'why not?'. And if the answer doesn't really wash, you need to drill down until you find the real 'why not', or until you find that you 'can'. It's like the SendKeys issue. Yes, Sendkeys has a bug, which causes the Numlock key to change state. WAY too many people say that you should NEVER use the SendKeys statement, unless it's a dire emergency. -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From DWUTKA at marlow.com Fri Mar 26 15:22:26 2004 From: DWUTKA at marlow.com (DWUTKA at marlow.com) Date: Fri, 26 Mar 2004 15:22:26 -0600 Subject: [AccessD] Lookup Fields in Table Design Message-ID: <2F8793082E00D4119A1700B0D0216BF8022279E0@main2.marlow.com> It's nitty gritty, but it does the job: On Error Resume Next Dim db As Database Dim tblTemp As TableDef Dim fld As Field Set db = CurrentDb For Each tblTemp In db.TableDefs For Each fld In tblTemp.Fields If fld.Properties("DisplayControl") <> 109 Then If Err = 0 Then fld.Properties("DisplayControl").Value = 109 Else Err.Clear End If End If Next Next Set db = Nothing Drew -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Ken Ismert Sent: Friday, March 26, 2004 2:33 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: [AccessD] Lookup Fields in Table Design McCool. If you have code that does that, I'd love to see it. -Ken -----Original Message----- From: John Bartow [mailto:john at winhaven.net] Sent: Friday, March 26, 2004 12:00 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] Lookup Fields in Table Design Here's a stretch but... For people that like to use the added form designing capabilites of the lookup property, once the table design and realtionships are complete you could set the desired lookup properties. Design all of the forms for the application. When the application design is complete you could run code that iterates the table collection and eliminates all lookup properties in the table design. This in essence would eliminate the corruption and performance issues. Eh? -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Charlotte Foust Sent: Friday, March 26, 2004 11:39 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] Lookup Fields in Table Design There is also the issue of TableID limits, which I believe include all the tables involved as lookups. Charlotte Foust -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From Developer at UltraDNT.com Fri Mar 26 16:13:20 2004 From: Developer at UltraDNT.com (Developer) Date: Fri, 26 Mar 2004 17:13:20 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] OT: Hard Drives, RAID, backup setup Message-ID: <000501c4137f$914e2b10$6401a8c0@COA3> I have had a massive hardware failure (50 gigs gone bad, only 75% backed up), and am thinking about moving to a RAID setup. Anyone have any specific recommendations on setup? I have a Win 2k server, but don't use a domain; there are 4 of us in my house on the LAN, but I'm ususally logged in on a few devices - let's call it 10 users max; just use the lan as p2p, with file sharing. Dedicate a machine to this task? Let everyone save to C:\, automate back-ups overnight? Or point everyone's MyDocuments to a network share, and bakup that ? On and on ... Any preferred hardware brands? it was a Maxtor that failed - nervously runnign off another one now? Tia4aa (thanks in advance for any adivce) Steve From DWUTKA at marlow.com Fri Mar 26 16:13:34 2004 From: DWUTKA at marlow.com (DWUTKA at marlow.com) Date: Fri, 26 Mar 2004 16:13:34 -0600 Subject: [AccessD] Lookup Fields in Table Design Message-ID: <2F8793082E00D4119A1700B0D0216BF8022279E2@main2.marlow.com> ROTFLMAOTHMHOTDIUD (That's 'rolling on the floor laughing my a$$ off, then hitting my head on the desk in utter dispair'). Okay, let's see, you have just proven to yourself that there is no performance degradation...what you had before was a fluke. Yes, you and Charlotte are correct that some indexing is added to speed up the lookup process, which does NOT affect querrying the actual data in the main table. (Going to get to why in a minute) It's not a complex and undocumented mechanism. It's actually VERY simple, and it is in the help files (just looked). It's a property of the field in the tabledefs. (Look up DisplayControl Property in the help files). That defines what the DEFAULT CONTROL is for the table. By default, it's 109, which is a textbox. However, change that to a Listbox or Combobox, and there are deeper properties which tell it how to build the 'default control', when you go to build a form. Nothing mysterious so far. It also explains why setting the limit to list property DOESN'T affect data entry of that field when you use code, or you use something OTHER then the default control (or either change the type, or change the properties of that control on a form.). It doesn't affect that, BECAUSE it's a property that is only looked at by the Wizards, NOT by Jet, when retrieving the data. Now, when it builds the indexes, JET does look at it, to determine if it needs to add indexes to help the listbox. This is a guess, but I would be willing to bet, that what it is adding, is a quick index reference to show what the 'displayed' data for that field is. Which is no more indexing, then if you just went and created the relationship in the first place! Let's drill a bit deeper, cause I'm on a roll. All actual data operations are completely ignorant of the 'default' control. It's used by the wizards, and it's also used by the datasheet view, but ONLY for looking at the data. You're premise that it degrades performance is off, because you are assuming that since it runs a query, that for some VERY weird reason, that it would run that query for every record, instead of running it whenever a field is entered into. Do combo boxes on a continuous form run their rowsource for every record displayed on their form? NO, in fact, that can be a problem with continuous forms, if you need to have a different source based on a value within that record. (Which was a thread from not too long ago). This of course doesn't mean that continuous forms are useless, what it does mean, is that if you look at the behavior and results between a table's datasheet view, and a form's continuous form view, you'll see that they act the same way. You are only getting the 'lookup' properties when the data is DISPLAYED (and in combo/listbox, they are only run when that field is ENTERED). Why? Another simple answer. Because even though a table is just data, the Datasheet view of a table is a little bit MORE then just the raw data, in fact, it's a simple BOUND form. The Caption field displays on the first row. Does the Datasheet view 'reference' the Caption property for every record it displays? No, of course not, it looks at the table definition, get's the properties, and creates the matrix necessary to display the data. SAME THING with the DefaultControl property. When it builds the matrix, just like with a continuous form, it creates a column of comboboxes, which all share the same source. Not only the same source, but the EXACT same results. And now a little deeper. Is the only option for a lookup field a combo or listbox? Nope, in fact, Textbox is an option. It's the default, so we are just calling a field a Lookup field if it has a combo or a listbox set. But in reality, it's a property of ALL fields, whether you use them or not. But you can also have a checkbox as the default. It of course is the default for a yes/no field. But if you want the Yes/No field to display as 'Yes', 'No', instead of a box with a check in it, then you go to the Lookup tab, and switch the default control to TEXTBOX. You can ALSO select ComboBox for Yes/No fields. (Male/Female, Child/Adult, Moron/Genius). I wouldn't be at all surprised, if you could fanangle a toggle switch in there. LOL. So we aren't looking at some 'mysterious' mechanism, that no one but the almighty Microsoft knows about. We are talking about easily accessible FIELD PROPERTIES! In reality, you aren't avoiding their use, you use them whether you like it or not, you just aren't changing their value. As for your 'Data Modeling books' comment, you should really ask how many I have read, and then ask how many complaints I've had on performance of my databases. The answer would be zip and (almost) zip (not perfect! LOL). I am not hacking the books, they put out good information. The 'database' community is made up of a lot of smart people. But this is just one of those things where the mob mentality took something to heart, which was done over preference, NOT fact. Took an MIS course at a local university, and missed a question on a test, when it asked what a relational database developer calls a record. It was multiple choice and it didn't have 'record' as an answer. Because, AS a relational database developer, I call my records, records If you really want to have your educational foundation shaken a bit (to realize that not everything written down is law), find someone taking courses like that (like MIS). Now, is it me, or is there something wrong, when I get tested to know that a File is a table, a tuple is a record, but when I went to do my 'ACCESS' homework, my spine shivered, because they required that the field names, and the db object names have SPACES in them. That they didn't normalize their data, and they absolutely went the long way around doing things? Does that make any sense? Unfortunately it does. Understanding how something works, is completely different from memorizing definitions, and/or instructions. It is far more difficult to teach concepts, and actual understanding, then it is to give out definitions and step by step instructions. As for your reductionist view, wouldn't that make you an unbounder? LOL. Sorry, had to add that. I don't go in and add things willy nilly. I do set the values (of properties that are there whether you want them or not), to a value that I find accomodating for my needs. Same with my forms. If I look at what I need the form to do, and say, well, that certainly fits within the bound form guides, I use a bound form. If I say, 'Up, nope, can't do that with a bound form', then I go with an unbound form. Boy, I'm really stoking the fire right now. Finally, how can you say there's uncertainty? It's a property! It's not smoke and mirrors! Arg...... Drew -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Ken Ismert Sent: Friday, March 26, 2004 2:37 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: [AccessD] Lookup Fields in Table Design Drew, Charlotte, all: To be entirely fair, I looked again at my test db, and found that a form based on the reference (non-lookup) table, using a lookup combo, produced roughly the same results as the form based on the table with lookup fields defined. So, I think we are laboring under different ideas of performance. Charlotte and I are correct in the sense that you carry the table lookup baggage in every query and form based on that table, whether you want it or not, unless you take steps to turn it off. This, I think, complicates the straightforward construction of queries, forms and reports. Drew is correct that there exists in Access a very complex and undocumented mechanism that will turn Off and On the table lookup feature, depending on its deduced context, which produces basically the same timed results in casual tests. This mechanism goes so far as to extend its reach from back to frontend. AFAIK, it is unique to Access. I think I have clearly demonstrated cases, both evidential and anecdotal, that show that this mechanism is not entirely trustworthy. I guess I am a reductionist in this regard. Take something, like a table, and strip it to its bare essentials. After all, parts you don't include will never fail or need repair. Then, where appropriate, add those parts in their proper context. Contrast this to the constructionist approach, which would add everything you could possibly need or want to the table, then turn around and strip out those parts where you don't need them, all the while trusting that this truly black box mechanism will magically provide you with the best performance. If you've done EVERYTHING correctly, you will probably get away with table lookup fields. This includes: using small, indexed lookup tables that don't grow; and appropriate indexes on all main tables. But without question, you've introduced needless fragility into your table design. Later on, if you change an index while tuning your table structures, you may find that the performance of some unrelated queries goes to crap, and I bet that the table lookup won't be the first thing that leaps to mind when trying to find the cause. Tell me, who in the general database community thinks this is a good idea? Please, show me the data modeling book that has a step that says "embed client-side UI elements in the table design". Looking beyond the uncertainty that table lookup fields introduce to the reliability of the backend, I honestly can't see how you are going to get ahead in the long run with it. It fills no functional niche that isn't covered by more standard, broadly accepted techniques. Finally, it is the little hassles that this feature consistently gives that have caused me to largely abandon it. -Ken -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From DWUTKA at marlow.com Fri Mar 26 16:19:41 2004 From: DWUTKA at marlow.com (DWUTKA at marlow.com) Date: Fri, 26 Mar 2004 16:19:41 -0600 Subject: [AccessD] Lookup Fields in Table Design Message-ID: <2F8793082E00D4119A1700B0D0216BF8022279E3@main2.marlow.com> Ooops, just went back and looked. I indexed different fields between the two databases. Going back, and setting the indexes the same, caused both databases (the one with a combo, and the one without the combo for the Defaultcontrol) to be the exact same size again. Go figure. Went back and checked, because it didn't make sense to have more data in there, since it's only creating a relationship, a soft one that that! Drew -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Susan Harkins Sent: Friday, March 26, 2004 1:57 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: [AccessD] Lookup Fields in Table Design VERY interesting. Have to give them half a point back, because there is a small amount of 'bloat', if you use a query/table for the lookup. But it's negligible, and also, both databases grow when you index the field, just grows a bit more. I would never really call that 'bloat'. Not trying to back track, but to me, bloat is when a database grows in size over time, but when compacted, it gets smaller. The portion that is 'reduced' is bloat. The portion left after the compact is 'overhead'. That's my definition. Admittedly, if you are going to run close to max db size, then lookups should be removed, to get that much more space. But we are talking overhead space, not really 'bloat'. ==============Wait!!!!!!!!!!! Is it true bloat, or just normal increase due to feature use. I mean, if you use it, it's going to cost something somewhere. So don't be so quick to label it -- but if it really bloat, then OK. :) Susan H. -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From DWUTKA at marlow.com Fri Mar 26 16:20:45 2004 From: DWUTKA at marlow.com (DWUTKA at marlow.com) Date: Fri, 26 Mar 2004 16:20:45 -0600 Subject: [AccessD] Lookup Fields in Table Design Message-ID: <2F8793082E00D4119A1700B0D0216BF8022279E4@main2.marlow.com> Oh definitely, with a REALLY BIG stick. Unless of course we were drinking, then I would know you were kidding around, and I'd just buy you another beer! LOL Drew -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of John W. Colby Sent: Friday, March 26, 2004 3:08 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] Lookup Fields in Table Design >'Drew, develop this, but don't use API's because their vauge and mysterious, and don't use indexing, because it'll bloat the database and it's just a lazy way for developers to speed up their applications, instead, roll your own indexing', I'd look at him like he was nuts! If I said that I would hope that you would slap me around a bit. John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of DWUTKA at marlow.com Sent: Friday, March 26, 2004 3:46 PM To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: RE: [AccessD] Lookup Fields in Table Design Hit below the belt. Charlotte, back to your corner! LOL Actually, I think I'd rather be known as the Crusador of the Self Taughts. I like to challenge the 'bad practice' stuff a lot, because I have found that a lot (certainly not all) is based solely on developer limitations, not actually system limitations. If you look at the sides I have been on, I am rarely saying people MUST do something, but instead, they CAN do something, if they choose to. Like the bound/unbound debate. I was simply pointing out that there is nothing wrong with an unbound form. There are times where it is easier to use an unbound form. There are also times where it is easier to use a bound form. But saying that unbound forms are bad practice, or a waste of time, is not right (it doesn't apply to bound forms either). Also, like the original thread, Frameworks are handy. They aren't good for every situation, but they certainly can be useful in other situations. JC has done a superb job of bring light to the subject, and has written excellent code examples. I must admit I don't prefix my Class objects, and variables the same way, but if JC gave me code, and said it will do what it's supposed to, I would have absolute faith that it would. If JC needed me to write code for him, and said, 'hey, use my naming convention, and work within my framework', I would have no problem doing so. Then again, if JC said 'Drew, develop this, but don't use API's because their vauge and mysterious, and don't use indexing, because it'll bloat the database and it's just a lazy way for developers to speed up their applications, instead, roll your own indexing', I'd look at him like he was nuts! (Not picking on ya JC....LOL) Drew -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From DWUTKA at marlow.com Fri Mar 26 16:29:09 2004 From: DWUTKA at marlow.com (DWUTKA at marlow.com) Date: Fri, 26 Mar 2004 16:29:09 -0600 Subject: [AccessD] Lookup Fields in Table Design Message-ID: <2F8793082E00D4119A1700B0D0216BF8022279E5@main2.marlow.com> LOL. I am an unbounder. Doesn't mean I don't use bound forms, I just find that most of what I do fits the unbound world a lot better. Let's not get this one rolling again. It was pretty much agreed last time that both methods have their time/place/usage. Neither is better, and neither is a 'bad practice'. Now if we could just get there with these lookup fields! LOL Drew -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of David McAfee (Home) Sent: Friday, March 26, 2004 3:09 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] Lookup Fields in Table Design No Drew, its more like you shouldn't use bound forms, only unbound! :P David -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of DWUTKA at marlow.com Sent: Friday, March 26, 2004 12:29 PM To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: RE: [AccessD] Lookup Fields in Table Design And like I said to Gustav, that is EXACTLY why I got into this thread. You can't really understand something, if you can't challenge stuff with a 'why not?'. And if the answer doesn't really wash, you need to drill down until you find the real 'why not', or until you find that you 'can'. It's like the SendKeys issue. Yes, Sendkeys has a bug, which causes the Numlock key to change state. WAY too many people say that you should NEVER use the SendKeys statement, unless it's a dire emergency. -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From DWUTKA at marlow.com Fri Mar 26 16:32:16 2004 From: DWUTKA at marlow.com (DWUTKA at marlow.com) Date: Fri, 26 Mar 2004 16:32:16 -0600 Subject: [AccessD] OT: Hard Drives, RAID, backup setup Message-ID: <2F8793082E00D4119A1700B0D0216BF8022279E6@main2.marlow.com> If you can, put in 3 SCSI drives, and set the raid up on those. I am running a RAID 5 on 2 SCSI's and an IDE. No real issues, until I wiped out my OS (whoops). Long story. However, if you are just looking for reliability, and don't want to go scsi, I would go with plain mirrors (RAID 0). The problem with a RAID 5 on IDE, is that you only have 2 IDE channels, so even though you can put 4 IDE hard drives in a machine, it's really to shared couples, so mirroring with a parity (RAID 5) across three of them is going to be a real performance degradation. However, mirroring between two drives, on different channels, will work just fine. Drew -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Developer Sent: Friday, March 26, 2004 4:13 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: [AccessD] OT: Hard Drives, RAID, backup setup I have had a massive hardware failure (50 gigs gone bad, only 75% backed up), and am thinking about moving to a RAID setup. Anyone have any specific recommendations on setup? I have a Win 2k server, but don't use a domain; there are 4 of us in my house on the LAN, but I'm ususally logged in on a few devices - let's call it 10 users max; just use the lan as p2p, with file sharing. Dedicate a machine to this task? Let everyone save to C:\, automate back-ups overnight? Or point everyone's MyDocuments to a network share, and bakup that ? On and on ... Any preferred hardware brands? it was a Maxtor that failed - nervously runnign off another one now? Tia4aa (thanks in advance for any adivce) Steve -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From carbonnb at sympatico.ca Fri Mar 26 17:27:27 2004 From: carbonnb at sympatico.ca (Bryan Carbonnell) Date: Fri, 26 Mar 2004 18:27:27 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Lookup Fields in Table Design In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <4064760F.18387.42F029@localhost> On 26 Mar 2004 at 16:23, John W. Colby wrote: > Hey!!! And frameworks are useless too I suppose? Just remember. *You* said it. We didn't. >:-) -- Bryan Carbonnell - carbonnb at sympatico.ca Inside every older person is a younger person -- wondering what the hell happened. - Cora Harvey Armstrong From jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com Fri Mar 26 17:32:42 2004 From: jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com (John W. Colby) Date: Fri, 26 Mar 2004 18:32:42 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Lookup Fields in Table Design In-Reply-To: <2F8793082E00D4119A1700B0D0216BF8022279E5@main2.marlow.com> Message-ID: >It was pretty much agreed last time that both methods have their time/place/usage. Neither is better, and neither is a 'bad practice'. I don't remember agreeing to that. I seem to remember that unbounders were unholy and should be banished to the new world. John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of DWUTKA at marlow.com Sent: Friday, March 26, 2004 5:29 PM To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: RE: [AccessD] Lookup Fields in Table Design LOL. I am an unbounder. Doesn't mean I don't use bound forms, I just find that most of what I do fits the unbound world a lot better. Let's not get this one rolling again. It was pretty much agreed last time that both methods have their time/place/usage. Neither is better, and neither is a 'bad practice'. Now if we could just get there with these lookup fields! LOL Drew -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of David McAfee (Home) Sent: Friday, March 26, 2004 3:09 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] Lookup Fields in Table Design No Drew, its more like you shouldn't use bound forms, only unbound! :P David -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of DWUTKA at marlow.com Sent: Friday, March 26, 2004 12:29 PM To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: RE: [AccessD] Lookup Fields in Table Design And like I said to Gustav, that is EXACTLY why I got into this thread. You can't really understand something, if you can't challenge stuff with a 'why not?'. And if the answer doesn't really wash, you need to drill down until you find the real 'why not', or until you find that you 'can'. It's like the SendKeys issue. Yes, Sendkeys has a bug, which causes the Numlock key to change state. WAY too many people say that you should NEVER use the SendKeys statement, unless it's a dire emergency. -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From DWUTKA at marlow.com Fri Mar 26 17:42:54 2004 From: DWUTKA at marlow.com (DWUTKA at marlow.com) Date: Fri, 26 Mar 2004 17:42:54 -0600 Subject: [AccessD] Lookup Fields in Table Design Message-ID: <2F8793082E00D4119A1700B0D0216BF8022279E9@main2.marlow.com> ROTFLMAO! Okay JC. Let's not start up with that again! Drew -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of John W. Colby Sent: Friday, March 26, 2004 5:33 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] Lookup Fields in Table Design >It was pretty much agreed last time that both methods have their time/place/usage. Neither is better, and neither is a 'bad practice'. I don't remember agreeing to that. I seem to remember that unbounders were unholy and should be banished to the new world. John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of DWUTKA at marlow.com Sent: Friday, March 26, 2004 5:29 PM To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: RE: [AccessD] Lookup Fields in Table Design LOL. I am an unbounder. Doesn't mean I don't use bound forms, I just find that most of what I do fits the unbound world a lot better. Let's not get this one rolling again. It was pretty much agreed last time that both methods have their time/place/usage. Neither is better, and neither is a 'bad practice'. Now if we could just get there with these lookup fields! LOL Drew -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of David McAfee (Home) Sent: Friday, March 26, 2004 3:09 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] Lookup Fields in Table Design No Drew, its more like you shouldn't use bound forms, only unbound! :P David -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of DWUTKA at marlow.com Sent: Friday, March 26, 2004 12:29 PM To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: RE: [AccessD] Lookup Fields in Table Design And like I said to Gustav, that is EXACTLY why I got into this thread. You can't really understand something, if you can't challenge stuff with a 'why not?'. And if the answer doesn't really wash, you need to drill down until you find the real 'why not', or until you find that you 'can'. It's like the SendKeys issue. Yes, Sendkeys has a bug, which causes the Numlock key to change state. WAY too many people say that you should NEVER use the SendKeys statement, unless it's a dire emergency. -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From DWUTKA at marlow.com Fri Mar 26 17:43:26 2004 From: DWUTKA at marlow.com (DWUTKA at marlow.com) Date: Fri, 26 Mar 2004 17:43:26 -0600 Subject: [AccessD] Lookup Fields in Table Design Message-ID: <2F8793082E00D4119A1700B0D0216BF8022279EA@main2.marlow.com> Ouch, just goes to show, you REALLY have to watch what you say around here! Drew -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Bryan Carbonnell Sent: Friday, March 26, 2004 5:27 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] Lookup Fields in Table Design On 26 Mar 2004 at 16:23, John W. Colby wrote: > Hey!!! And frameworks are useless too I suppose? Just remember. *You* said it. We didn't. >:-) -- Bryan Carbonnell - carbonnb at sympatico.ca Inside every older person is a younger person -- wondering what the hell happened. - Cora Harvey Armstrong -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From wdhindman at bellsouth.net Fri Mar 26 17:45:03 2004 From: wdhindman at bellsouth.net (William Hindman) Date: Fri, 26 Mar 2004 18:45:03 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Access & Word Documents References: <4867326.1080316543038.JavaMail.www@wwinf3006> Message-ID: <009b01c4138c$5c4d3750$6101a8c0@dejpolsys> http://www.helenfeddema.com/ ...if that doesn't do it, e me off list and I'll copy you some of the code modules I use. William Hindman ipsedixitism: something is true because I myself have said it is true ...the philosophy of Noam Chomsky :) ----- Original Message ----- From: To: "accessd" Sent: Friday, March 26, 2004 10:55 AM Subject: [AccessD] Access & Word Documents To all, We currently have an Access Database one part of which contains Employee records. We also have several Word document templates (i.e. Holiday & Sickness forms etc). What we would like to be able to do is insert the employees name and address etc into the Word templates. How would I go about putting the employees address directly into the word document at a specific point. Has anyone any samples that I may view etc. Thanks in advance for all your help. Paul Hartland Freeserve AnyTime - HALF PRICE for the first 3 months - Save ?7.50 a month www.freeserve.com/anytime -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From Jim.Hale at FleetPride.com Fri Mar 26 17:47:25 2004 From: Jim.Hale at FleetPride.com (Hale, Jim) Date: Fri, 26 Mar 2004 17:47:25 -0600 Subject: [AccessD] Access & Word Documents Message-ID: <6A6AA9DF57E4F046BDA1E273BDDB677201AB3E@corp-es01.fleetpride.com> http://www.helenfeddema.com/CodeSamples.htm Check Helen's site, about halfway down Jim Hale -----Original Message----- From: paul.hartland at fsmail.net [mailto:paul.hartland at fsmail.net] Sent: Friday, March 26, 2004 9:56 AM To: accessd Subject: [AccessD] Access & Word Documents To all, We currently have an Access Database one part of which contains Employee records. We also have several Word document templates (i.e. Holiday & Sickness forms etc). What we would like to be able to do is insert the employees name and address etc into the Word templates. How would I go about putting the employees address directly into the word document at a specific point. Has anyone any samples that I may view etc. Thanks in advance for all your help. Paul Hartland Freeserve AnyTime - HALF PRICE for the first 3 months - Save ?7.50 a month www.freeserve.com/anytime -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From ssharkins at bellsouth.net Fri Mar 26 17:49:14 2004 From: ssharkins at bellsouth.net (Susan Harkins) Date: Fri, 26 Mar 2004 18:49:14 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Lookup Fields in Table Design In-Reply-To: <2F8793082E00D4119A1700B0D0216BF8022279E9@main2.marlow.com> Message-ID: <20040326234910.XQHD1775.imf19aec.mail.bellsouth.net@SUSANONE> I want to know why he's still here... And not in the new world... ;) Susan H. ROTFLMAO! Okay JC. Let's not start up with that again! From djkr at msn.com Fri Mar 26 17:50:18 2004 From: djkr at msn.com (DJK(John) Robinson) Date: Fri, 26 Mar 2004 23:50:18 -0000 Subject: [AccessD] OT: Hard Drives, RAID, backup setup In-Reply-To: <2F8793082E00D4119A1700B0D0216BF8022279E6@main2.marlow.com> Message-ID: <004001c4138d$17f2a170$bf00a8c0@dabsight> Plain mirror is RAID 1, isn't it? And you can always go to SATA these days, up to 8 drives on a PCI card - given the right PCI interface - RAID 0, 1, 5, 10 or JBOD. John > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of > DWUTKA at marlow.com > Sent: 26 March 2004 22:32 > To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com > Subject: RE: [AccessD] OT: Hard Drives, RAID, backup setup > > > If you can, put in 3 SCSI drives, and set the raid up on > those. I am running a RAID 5 on 2 SCSI's and an IDE. No > real issues, until I wiped out my OS (whoops). Long story. > > However, if you are just looking for reliability, and don't > want to go scsi, I would go with plain mirrors (RAID 0). The > problem with a RAID 5 on IDE, is that you only have 2 IDE > channels, so even though you can put 4 IDE hard drives in a > machine, it's really to shared couples, so mirroring with a > parity (RAID 5) across three of them is going to be a real > performance degradation. However, mirroring between two > drives, on different channels, will work just fine. > > Drew > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Developer > Sent: Friday, March 26, 2004 4:13 PM > To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' > Subject: [AccessD] OT: Hard Drives, RAID, backup setup > > > I have had a massive hardware failure (50 gigs gone bad, only > 75% backed up), and am thinking about moving to a RAID setup. > Anyone have any specific recommendations on setup? I have a > Win 2k server, but don't use a domain; there are 4 of us in > my house on the LAN, but I'm ususally logged in on a few > devices - let's call it 10 users max; just use the lan as > p2p, with file sharing. Dedicate a machine to this task? Let > everyone save to C:\, automate back-ups overnight? Or point > everyone's MyDocuments to a network share, and bakup that ? > On and on ... > > Any preferred hardware brands? it was a Maxtor that failed - > nervously runnign off another one now? > > > Tia4aa > (thanks in advance for any adivce) > Steve > > > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > From carbonnb at sympatico.ca Fri Mar 26 17:59:24 2004 From: carbonnb at sympatico.ca (Bryan Carbonnell) Date: Fri, 26 Mar 2004 18:59:24 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Lookup Fields in Table Design In-Reply-To: <2F8793082E00D4119A1700B0D0216BF8022279EA@main2.marlow.com> Message-ID: <40647D8C.16581.603190@localhost> On 26 Mar 2004 at 17:43, DWUTKA at marlow.com wrote: > Ouch, just goes to show, you REALLY have to watch what you say around > here! Hey, what can I say. It's Friday and the kids are off to Nana's house for the weekend -- Bryan Carbonnell - carbonnb at sympatico.ca Tell me what you need, and I'll tell you how to get along without it. From Developer at UltraDNT.com Fri Mar 26 19:34:27 2004 From: Developer at UltraDNT.com (Developer) Date: Fri, 26 Mar 2004 20:34:27 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] OT: Hard Drives, RAID, backup setup In-Reply-To: <004001c4138d$17f2a170$bf00a8c0@dabsight> Message-ID: <000001c4139b$a79e6210$6401a8c0@COA3> Whoa! 8 drives is over-kill. I had to look up what SATA is ... 3 drives is the most I would think necessary here ... My tolerance is a day's work, I guess, although the mdb that went bad last night with an hour of new work in it mad me scream >:O (the import of all objects into a new mdb worked, luckily) Let's say available budget is about 1K right now (I guess that should have been stated from the start!) Steve -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of DJK(John) Robinson Sent: Friday, March 26, 2004 6:50 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: [AccessD] OT: Hard Drives, RAID, backup setup Plain mirror is RAID 1, isn't it? And you can always go to SATA these days, up to 8 drives on a PCI card - given the right PCI interface - RAID 0, 1, 5, 10 or JBOD. John > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of > DWUTKA at marlow.com > Sent: 26 March 2004 22:32 > To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com > Subject: RE: [AccessD] OT: Hard Drives, RAID, backup setup > > > If you can, put in 3 SCSI drives, and set the raid up on > those. I am running a RAID 5 on 2 SCSI's and an IDE. No > real issues, until I wiped out my OS (whoops). Long story. > > However, if you are just looking for reliability, and don't > want to go scsi, I would go with plain mirrors (RAID 0). The > problem with a RAID 5 on IDE, is that you only have 2 IDE > channels, so even though you can put 4 IDE hard drives in a > machine, it's really to shared couples, so mirroring with a > parity (RAID 5) across three of them is going to be a real > performance degradation. However, mirroring between two > drives, on different channels, will work just fine. > > Drew > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Developer > Sent: Friday, March 26, 2004 4:13 PM > To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' > Subject: [AccessD] OT: Hard Drives, RAID, backup setup > > > I have had a massive hardware failure (50 gigs gone bad, only > 75% backed up), and am thinking about moving to a RAID setup. > Anyone have any specific recommendations on setup? I have a > Win 2k server, but don't use a domain; there are 4 of us in > my house on the LAN, but I'm ususally logged in on a few > devices - let's call it 10 users max; just use the lan as > p2p, with file sharing. Dedicate a machine to this task? Let > everyone save to C:\, automate back-ups overnight? Or point > everyone's MyDocuments to a network share, and bakup that ? > On and on ... > > Any preferred hardware brands? it was a Maxtor that failed - > nervously runnign off another one now? > > > Tia4aa > (thanks in advance for any adivce) > Steve > > > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From KIsmert at TexasSystems.com Fri Mar 26 19:35:33 2004 From: KIsmert at TexasSystems.com (Ken Ismert) Date: Fri, 26 Mar 2004 19:35:33 -0600 Subject: [AccessD] Lookup Fields in Table Design In-Reply-To: <2F8793082E00D4119A1700B0D0216BF8022279E2@main2.marlow.com> Message-ID: <006401c4139b$cc6423f0$2a3ca8c0@TEXASSYSTEMS.COM> You seem to be making more noise than actual rebuttal. First, show me at least *one* unique feature that server-side, table-level field lookups gives me, that can't be duplicated using more broadly accepted techniques. Show me some intrinsic value. Second, if you throw a grain of sand in the water, it doesn't make a ripple. So it is with this feature. The database community at large hasn't looked at table field lookups and said "Hot damn! let's break the client-server model and embed client UI elements in tables! Comboboxes, subforms ... hell ... let's stuff entire forms in there, complete with underlying code!". So you have a query, which inherits all this stuff, and you drag it all over from the server so you can open ... a report. When you take this line of reasoning to its logical conclusion, its easy to see that this whole thing goes against the standard, accepted way that database applications are constructed. Data in this bucket. App in this other bucket. Since you didn't refute the 'constructionist' bit, I assume that's what you're admitting you are: throw in the kitchen sink, hope it helps, hope you catch all the places it doesn't, and where you miss things, hope it doesn't bite you. Puh-lease. Lets look at some what you say more closely: >It doesn't affect that, BECAUSE it's a property that is only >looked at by the Wizards, NOT by Jet, when retrieving the data. Its used in queries too. Queries inherit this stuff from the table they are based on. >Now, when it builds the indexes, JET does look at it, to determine >if it needs to add indexes to help the listbox. This is a guess, >but I would be willing to bet, that what it is adding, is a quick >index reference to show what the 'displayed' data for that field is. >-Which is no more indexing, then if you just went and created the >relationship in the first place! Jet never spontaneously adds table indexes. If so, you would be able to see them in the table definition after thay had been created. Temporary indexes would be very expensive to create and then throw away. Prove your assertions. Thats all I have time for now. More later. -Ken From stuart at lexacorp.com.pg Fri Mar 26 20:26:07 2004 From: stuart at lexacorp.com.pg (Stuart McLachlan) Date: Sat, 27 Mar 2004 12:26:07 +1000 Subject: [AccessD] Lookup Fields in Table Design In-Reply-To: <006401c4139b$cc6423f0$2a3ca8c0@TEXASSYSTEMS.COM> References: <2F8793082E00D4119A1700B0D0216BF8022279E2@main2.marlow.com> Message-ID: <406572DF.12892.A02D3F@localhost> On 26 Mar 2004 at 19:35, Ken Ismert wrote: > > >It doesn't affect that, BECAUSE it's a property that is only > >looked at by the Wizards, NOT by Jet, when retrieving the data. > > Its used in queries too. Queries inherit this stuff from the table they are > based on. > Queries don't use it. The object which Access uses to display the results of queries does. If I pull a "Select * from tblMyTable", my recordset doesn't know anything about the combobox bound to fldMyLookup - or about any table used for the lookup on that field. If however, I use the Query Datasheet to display it, the datasheet will look at the table definition to determine how it is displayed by default (which can be overwritten by defining a different display format in the query grid itself). In essence, the lookup property(ies) of a field in a table are no different to the Format, and Caption properties. They are used to define the *default* way that the data in the table is displayed in the GUI. You can overwrite this default in any query grid, form control, report control that you create. It has nothing to do with how a recordset is actually retreived by Jet. -- Lexacorp Ltd http://www.lexacorp.com.pg Information Technology Consultancy, Software Development,System Support. From jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com Fri Mar 26 20:30:34 2004 From: jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com (John W. Colby) Date: Fri, 26 Mar 2004 21:30:34 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] OT: Hard Drives, RAID, backup setup In-Reply-To: <000001c4139b$a79e6210$6401a8c0@COA3> Message-ID: >Let's say available budget is about 1K right now (I guess that should have been stated from the start!) Hell, with 1K for a budget you can have (8) 120 gb SATA hard disks. http://www.newegg.com/app/ViewProductDesc.asp?description=22-152-017&depa=0 A 64 bit PCI 8 port SATA controller with Raid 0,1,5, and 10. (use raid 5) http://www.newegg.com/app/ViewProductDesc.asp?description=16-115-019&depa=0& section=1 And a pretty good article on the whole raid thing. http://www4.tomshardware.com/storage/20031114/index.html Nothing like a terrabyte of hard disk to keep ya for awhile. Of course you might need a new chassis and PS to hold the thing. ;-) John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Developer Sent: Friday, March 26, 2004 8:34 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: [AccessD] OT: Hard Drives, RAID, backup setup Whoa! 8 drives is over-kill. I had to look up what SATA is ... 3 drives is the most I would think necessary here ... My tolerance is a day's work, I guess, although the mdb that went bad last night with an hour of new work in it mad me scream >:O (the import of all objects into a new mdb worked, luckily) Let's say available budget is about 1K right now (I guess that should have been stated from the start!) Steve From ssharkins at bellsouth.net Fri Mar 26 21:37:21 2004 From: ssharkins at bellsouth.net (Susan Harkins) Date: Fri, 26 Mar 2004 22:37:21 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Lookup Fields in Table Design In-Reply-To: <406572DF.12892.A02D3F@localhost> Message-ID: <20040327033719.JUEP1709.imf20aec.mail.bellsouth.net@SUSANONE> In essence, the lookup property(ies) of a field in a table are no different to the Format, and Caption properties. They are used to define the *default* way that the data in the table is displayed in the GUI. You can overwrite this default in any query grid, form control, report control that you create. It has nothing to do with how a recordset is actually retreived by Jet. ===========Absolutely true, as I understand them. Lookup field properties are implemented at the Access level, via user-defined field properties. There's no difference between a lookup field and any other field. As I've said many times now, they're a GUI trick -- one that users can quickly and efficiently enable with little to no other knowledge. Susan H. From jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com Fri Mar 26 21:53:17 2004 From: jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com (John W. Colby) Date: Fri, 26 Mar 2004 22:53:17 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Lookup Fields in Table Design In-Reply-To: <20040327033719.JUEP1709.imf20aec.mail.bellsouth.net@SUSANONE> Message-ID: The real answer to this is to just shoot all users. Problem solved! John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Susan Harkins Sent: Friday, March 26, 2004 10:37 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: [AccessD] Lookup Fields in Table Design In essence, the lookup property(ies) of a field in a table are no different to the Format, and Caption properties. They are used to define the *default* way that the data in the table is displayed in the GUI. You can overwrite this default in any query grid, form control, report control that you create. It has nothing to do with how a recordset is actually retreived by Jet. ===========Absolutely true, as I understand them. Lookup field properties are implemented at the Access level, via user-defined field properties. There's no difference between a lookup field and any other field. As I've said many times now, they're a GUI trick -- one that users can quickly and efficiently enable with little to no other knowledge. Susan H. -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From ssharkins at bellsouth.net Fri Mar 26 23:43:43 2004 From: ssharkins at bellsouth.net (Susan Harkins) Date: Sat, 27 Mar 2004 00:43:43 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Lookup Fields in Table Design In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <20040327054341.DEJS1715.imf16aec.mail.bellsouth.net@SUSANONE> Ah.... to get paid for the sake of art... ;) Susan H. The real answer to this is to just shoot all users. Problem solved! From stuart at lexacorp.com.pg Fri Mar 26 23:58:52 2004 From: stuart at lexacorp.com.pg (Stuart McLachlan) Date: Sat, 27 Mar 2004 15:58:52 +1000 Subject: [AccessD] Printing BarCode readable labels In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <4065A4BC.16087.162F40A@localhost> On 29 Jan 2002 at 12:56, Stephen Bond wrote: > Has anyone had any experience in Printing BarCode readable > labels from Access? Can you point me to some resources ... > thanks. > I've done a bit. For all you ever wanted to know about how barcodes are constructed take a look at http://www.barcode-1.com If you just want to create your own internal codes, you can just instal a Code39 or Code128 font and create them very simply. It's just a case of putting a text box in a report, setting the font and doing a miminal amout of formatting. If you want to use UPC or EAN barcodes, it gets quite a bit more tricky. You can find some info about one system to do this at http://www.idautomation.com/components.html -- Lexacorp Ltd http://www.lexacorp.com.pg Information Technology Consultancy, Software Development,System Support. From wdhindman at bellsouth.net Sat Mar 27 00:44:50 2004 From: wdhindman at bellsouth.net (William Hindman) Date: Sat, 27 Mar 2004 01:44:50 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Lookup Fields in Table Design References: Message-ID: <004801c413c7$00a72470$6101a8c0@dejpolsys> ...at long, long, long, long last!!!! ...a post in this endless, angels on a pinhead, thread that actually would produce a positive result in my workday world :))))))))) ...thank god that Fridays usually kill the unkillable threads of the past week :((( William Hindman ipsedixitism: something is true because I myself have said it is true ...the philosophy of Noam Chomsky :) ----- Original Message ----- From: "John W. Colby" To: "Access Developers discussion and problem solving" Sent: Friday, March 26, 2004 10:53 PM Subject: RE: [AccessD] Lookup Fields in Table Design > The real answer to this is to just shoot all users. Problem solved! > > John W. Colby > www.ColbyConsulting.com From paul.hartland at fsmail.net Sat Mar 27 03:25:47 2004 From: paul.hartland at fsmail.net (paul.hartland at fsmail.net) Date: Sat, 27 Mar 2004 10:25:47 +0100 (CET) Subject: [AccessD] Access & Word Documents Message-ID: <2725933.1080379547550.JavaMail.www@wwinf3005> Thanks for everyones help on this, I think I may be able to work my way through now. I love this list.. Paul Message date : Mar 26 2004, 11:49 PM >From : "Hale, Jim" To : "'Access Developers discussion and problem solving'" Copy to : Subject : RE: [AccessD] Access & Word Documents http://www.helenfeddema.com/CodeSamples.htm Check Helen's site, about halfway down Jim Hale -----Original Message----- From: paul.hartland at fsmail.net [mailto:paul.hartland at fsmail.net] Sent: Friday, March 26, 2004 9:56 AM To: accessd Subject: [AccessD] Access & Word Documents To all, We currently have an Access Database one part of which contains Employee records. We also have several Word document templates (i.e. Holiday & Sickness forms etc). What we would like to be able to do is insert the employees name and address etc into the Word templates. How would I go about putting the employees address directly into the word document at a specific point. Has anyone any samples that I may view etc. Thanks in advance for all your help. Paul Hartland Freeserve AnyTime - HALF PRICE for the first 3 months - Save ?7.50 a month www.freeserve.com/anytime -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com Freeserve AnyTime - HALF PRICE for the first 3 months - Save ?7.50 a month www.freeserve.com/anytime From jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com Sat Mar 27 05:52:15 2004 From: jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com (John W. Colby) Date: Sat, 27 Mar 2004 06:52:15 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Lookup Fields in Table Design In-Reply-To: <20040327054341.DEJS1715.imf16aec.mail.bellsouth.net@SUSANONE> Message-ID: I guess considering what I have seen passed off as art, we could call yours.... uhhh..... Never mind. ;-) John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Susan Harkins Sent: Saturday, March 27, 2004 12:44 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: [AccessD] Lookup Fields in Table Design Ah.... to get paid for the sake of art... ;) Susan H. The real answer to this is to just shoot all users. Problem solved! -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From ssharkins at bellsouth.net Sat Mar 27 08:41:52 2004 From: ssharkins at bellsouth.net (Susan Harkins) Date: Sat, 27 Mar 2004 09:41:52 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Lookup Fields in Table Design In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <20040327144147.SRGI1729.imf24aec.mail.bellsouth.net@SUSANONE> Hmmmmmm.... You suggest we shoot users, which means of course, we have no one to pay us for our work... And I was simply thinking a loud -- it would be nice to get paid for what we do without having to actually consider those we do it for. If you thought I was insulting you, I'm sorry, because I wasn't. Susan H. I guess considering what I have seen passed off as art, we could call yours.... uhhh..... Never mind. ;-) John W. Colby From accessd at shaw.ca Sat Mar 27 11:39:20 2004 From: accessd at shaw.ca (Jim Lawrence (AccessD)) Date: Sat, 27 Mar 2004 09:39:20 -0800 Subject: [AccessD] 1st Anglo-Australian DBA Conference In-Reply-To: <4065A4BC.16087.162F40A@localhost> Message-ID: Hi All: The 1st Anglo-Australian DBA Conference was held a short while ago. It may have been small but it is a start. www.databaseadvisors.com Jim From DWUTKA at marlow.com Sat Mar 27 11:58:50 2004 From: DWUTKA at marlow.com (DWUTKA at marlow.com) Date: Sat, 27 Mar 2004 11:58:50 -0600 Subject: [AccessD] Lookup Fields in Table Design Message-ID: <2F8793082E00D4119A1700B0D0216BF8022279EB@main2.marlow.com> Thank you! I was beginning to think that I was talking to a wall there. Everything I have tested shows that the DefaultControl property does absolutely nothing to how JET retrieves data, and only slightly affects how JET stores data (because it does setup a relationship, if you have an ID field with a lookup of a related table. But it's no more 'work' then if you just set the relationship up in the database, in the first place. All I'm getting from Ken is, 'It's just not standard practice, so it must be bad'. Ugh. Drew -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Sent: 3/26/04 8:26 PM Subject: RE: [AccessD] Lookup Fields in Table Design On 26 Mar 2004 at 19:35, Ken Ismert wrote: > > >It doesn't affect that, BECAUSE it's a property that is only > >looked at by the Wizards, NOT by Jet, when retrieving the data. > > Its used in queries too. Queries inherit this stuff from the table they are > based on. > Queries don't use it. The object which Access uses to display the results of queries does. If I pull a "Select * from tblMyTable", my recordset doesn't know anything about the combobox bound to fldMyLookup - or about any table used for the lookup on that field. If however, I use the Query Datasheet to display it, the datasheet will look at the table definition to determine how it is displayed by default (which can be overwritten by defining a different display format in the query grid itself). In essence, the lookup property(ies) of a field in a table are no different to the Format, and Caption properties. They are used to define the *default* way that the data in the table is displayed in the GUI. You can overwrite this default in any query grid, form control, report control that you create. It has nothing to do with how a recordset is actually retreived by Jet. -- Lexacorp Ltd http://www.lexacorp.com.pg Information Technology Consultancy, Software Development,System Support. -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From DWUTKA at marlow.com Sat Mar 27 11:59:51 2004 From: DWUTKA at marlow.com (DWUTKA at marlow.com) Date: Sat, 27 Mar 2004 11:59:51 -0600 Subject: [AccessD] OT: Hard Drives, RAID, backup setup Message-ID: <2F8793082E00D4119A1700B0D0216BF8022279EC@main2.marlow.com> Haven't had my coffee yet, but I thought RAID 0 was a mirror, and RAID 1 was a stripe. I'm a little groggy, so if you can't find it on google somewhere, and really want to know, I'll go look it up. Drew -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Sent: 3/26/04 5:50 PM Subject: RE: [AccessD] OT: Hard Drives, RAID, backup setup Plain mirror is RAID 1, isn't it? And you can always go to SATA these days, up to 8 drives on a PCI card - given the right PCI interface - RAID 0, 1, 5, 10 or JBOD. John > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of > DWUTKA at marlow.com > Sent: 26 March 2004 22:32 > To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com > Subject: RE: [AccessD] OT: Hard Drives, RAID, backup setup > > > If you can, put in 3 SCSI drives, and set the raid up on > those. I am running a RAID 5 on 2 SCSI's and an IDE. No > real issues, until I wiped out my OS (whoops). Long story. > > However, if you are just looking for reliability, and don't > want to go scsi, I would go with plain mirrors (RAID 0). The > problem with a RAID 5 on IDE, is that you only have 2 IDE > channels, so even though you can put 4 IDE hard drives in a > machine, it's really to shared couples, so mirroring with a > parity (RAID 5) across three of them is going to be a real > performance degradation. However, mirroring between two > drives, on different channels, will work just fine. > > Drew > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Developer > Sent: Friday, March 26, 2004 4:13 PM > To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' > Subject: [AccessD] OT: Hard Drives, RAID, backup setup > > > I have had a massive hardware failure (50 gigs gone bad, only > 75% backed up), and am thinking about moving to a RAID setup. > Anyone have any specific recommendations on setup? I have a > Win 2k server, but don't use a domain; there are 4 of us in > my house on the LAN, but I'm ususally logged in on a few > devices - let's call it 10 users max; just use the lan as > p2p, with file sharing. Dedicate a machine to this task? Let > everyone save to C:\, automate back-ups overnight? Or point > everyone's MyDocuments to a network share, and bakup that ? > On and on ... > > Any preferred hardware brands? it was a Maxtor that failed - > nervously runnign off another one now? > > > Tia4aa > (thanks in advance for any adivce) > Steve > > > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From gustav at cactus.dk Sat Mar 27 12:01:09 2004 From: gustav at cactus.dk (Gustav Brock) Date: Sat, 27 Mar 2004 19:01:09 +0100 Subject: [AccessD] 1st Anglo-Australian DBA Conference In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <8729197113.20040327190109@cactus.dk> Hi Jim Small, you bet ... no announcement was made. 1st Secret DBA Conference? How do one know when the next will take place? (You guessed it: you won't!) Anyway, nice to see you abandoned the terrible Foster beer - probably (you can't tell from the picture) in favour of the high-quality domestic wine! /gustav > The 1st Anglo-Australian DBA Conference was held a short while ago. It may > have been small but it is a start. www.databaseadvisors.com > Jim From DWUTKA at marlow.com Sat Mar 27 12:05:00 2004 From: DWUTKA at marlow.com (DWUTKA at marlow.com) Date: Sat, 27 Mar 2004 12:05:00 -0600 Subject: [AccessD] Lookup Fields in Table Design Message-ID: <2F8793082E00D4119A1700B0D0216BF8022279ED@main2.marlow.com> Ken, once again, you aren't reading what I posted. Querries DO NOT care what the DefaultControl property is. Only the interface that you use to view a query with does. Okay, a unique feature. I create an .mdb, to store data for a multiple UI system. The UI's are ASP, and VB. Now, every once in a while, I jump into the backend, to see how things are going. I open up a few tables, here and there, and just take a look. No need for forms, no extra time wasted doing anything other then looking at the tables in datasheet view. However, instead of seeing 'meaningless' ID's, I can see what they actually represent, (and here's the catch)....IN THE TABLE'S DATASHEET VIEW. You just cannot do that with any other approach. Sure, you may mimic it, you may jump up and down, and dance around, but it is just too plain and simple to not use when you want too. Other then the benefit I receive, there is no other affect of having those fields set as lookups. NONE. (Still haven't seen a true performance issue presented by you yet!) Drew -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Sent: 3/26/04 7:35 PM Subject: RE: [AccessD] Lookup Fields in Table Design You seem to be making more noise than actual rebuttal. First, show me at least *one* unique feature that server-side, table-level field lookups gives me, that can't be duplicated using more broadly accepted techniques. Show me some intrinsic value. Second, if you throw a grain of sand in the water, it doesn't make a ripple. So it is with this feature. The database community at large hasn't looked at table field lookups and said "Hot damn! let's break the client-server model and embed client UI elements in tables! Comboboxes, subforms ... hell ... let's stuff entire forms in there, complete with underlying code!". So you have a query, which inherits all this stuff, and you drag it all over from the server so you can open ... a report. When you take this line of reasoning to its logical conclusion, its easy to see that this whole thing goes against the standard, accepted way that database applications are constructed. Data in this bucket. App in this other bucket. Since you didn't refute the 'constructionist' bit, I assume that's what you're admitting you are: throw in the kitchen sink, hope it helps, hope you catch all the places it doesn't, and where you miss things, hope it doesn't bite you. Puh-lease. Lets look at some what you say more closely: >It doesn't affect that, BECAUSE it's a property that is only >looked at by the Wizards, NOT by Jet, when retrieving the data. Its used in queries too. Queries inherit this stuff from the table they are based on. >Now, when it builds the indexes, JET does look at it, to determine >if it needs to add indexes to help the listbox. This is a guess, >but I would be willing to bet, that what it is adding, is a quick >index reference to show what the 'displayed' data for that field is. >-Which is no more indexing, then if you just went and created the >relationship in the first place! Jet never spontaneously adds table indexes. If so, you would be able to see them in the table definition after thay had been created. Temporary indexes would be very expensive to create and then throw away. Prove your assertions. Thats all I have time for now. More later. -Ken -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From DWUTKA at marlow.com Sat Mar 27 12:06:19 2004 From: DWUTKA at marlow.com (DWUTKA at marlow.com) Date: Sat, 27 Mar 2004 12:06:19 -0600 Subject: [AccessD] Lookup Fields in Table Design Message-ID: <2F8793082E00D4119A1700B0D0216BF8022279EE@main2.marlow.com> Once again, we're in complete agreement JC! LOL Drew -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Sent: 3/26/04 9:53 PM Subject: RE: [AccessD] Lookup Fields in Table Design The real answer to this is to just shoot all users. Problem solved! John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Susan Harkins Sent: Friday, March 26, 2004 10:37 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: [AccessD] Lookup Fields in Table Design In essence, the lookup property(ies) of a field in a table are no different to the Format, and Caption properties. They are used to define the *default* way that the data in the table is displayed in the GUI. You can overwrite this default in any query grid, form control, report control that you create. It has nothing to do with how a recordset is actually retreived by Jet. ===========Absolutely true, as I understand them. Lookup field properties are implemented at the Access level, via user-defined field properties. There's no difference between a lookup field and any other field. As I've said many times now, they're a GUI trick -- one that users can quickly and efficiently enable with little to no other knowledge. Susan H. -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From DWUTKA at marlow.com Sat Mar 27 12:08:03 2004 From: DWUTKA at marlow.com (DWUTKA at marlow.com) Date: Sat, 27 Mar 2004 12:08:03 -0600 Subject: [AccessD] Lookup Fields in Table Design Message-ID: <2F8793082E00D4119A1700B0D0216BF8022279EF@main2.marlow.com> Well William, what do YOU think of changing the values of the DefaultControl property for a field in a table's design? Drew -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Sent: 3/27/04 12:44 AM Subject: Re: [AccessD] Lookup Fields in Table Design ...at long, long, long, long last!!!! ...a post in this endless, angels on a pinhead, thread that actually would produce a positive result in my workday world :))))))))) ...thank god that Fridays usually kill the unkillable threads of the past week :((( William Hindman ipsedixitism: something is true because I myself have said it is true ...the philosophy of Noam Chomsky :) ----- Original Message ----- From: "John W. Colby" To: "Access Developers discussion and problem solving" Sent: Friday, March 26, 2004 10:53 PM Subject: RE: [AccessD] Lookup Fields in Table Design > The real answer to this is to just shoot all users. Problem solved! > > John W. Colby > www.ColbyConsulting.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From gustav at cactus.dk Sat Mar 27 12:13:23 2004 From: gustav at cactus.dk (Gustav Brock) Date: Sat, 27 Mar 2004 19:13:23 +0100 Subject: [AccessD] OT: Hard Drives, RAID, backup setup In-Reply-To: <2F8793082E00D4119A1700B0D0216BF8022279EC@main2.marlow.com> References: <2F8793082E00D4119A1700B0D0216BF8022279EC@main2.marlow.com> Message-ID: <16629930808.20040327191323@cactus.dk> Hi Drew > Haven't had my coffee yet, but I thought RAID 0 was a mirror, and RAID 1 was > a stripe. I'm a little groggy, so if you can't find it on google somewhere, > and really want to know, I'll go look it up. Nope - you certainly miss both the coffee and the orange juice: http://www.arstechnica.com/paedia/r/raid-1.html http://www.arstechnica.com/paedia/r/raid-2.html Also, RAID 0-1 and 1-0: http://www.ofb.net/~jheiss/raid10/ /gustav > Plain mirror is RAID 1, isn't it? > And you can always go to SATA these days, up to 8 drives on a PCI card - > given the right PCI interface - RAID 0, 1, 5, 10 or JBOD. From wdhindman at bellsouth.net Sat Mar 27 13:26:41 2004 From: wdhindman at bellsouth.net (William Hindman) Date: Sat, 27 Mar 2004 14:26:41 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Lookup Fields in Table Design References: <2F8793082E00D4119A1700B0D0216BF8022279EF@main2.marlow.com> Message-ID: <001801c41431$6e899580$6101a8c0@dejpolsys> ...I don't think about it ...ever ...gives me migraines ...like this thread ...:((((((((( ...what I think about is shooting the entire freaking Access development team at MS who have now released ANOTHER major service pack without fixing the freaking bloat problem that has existed since the release of XP ...I'm getting damned tired of creating new dbs to import existing ones into just to get rid of the freaking bloat that compact/repair doesn't ...WTFO??? William Hindman ipsedixitism: something is true because I myself have said it is true ...the philosophy of Noam Chomsky :) ----- Original Message ----- From: To: ; Sent: Saturday, March 27, 2004 1:08 PM Subject: RE: [AccessD] Lookup Fields in Table Design > Well William, what do YOU think of changing the values of the DefaultControl > property for a field in a table's design? > > Drew > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Sent: 3/27/04 12:44 AM > Subject: Re: [AccessD] Lookup Fields in Table Design > > ...at long, long, long, long last!!!! > > ...a post in this endless, angels on a pinhead, thread that actually > would > produce a positive result in my workday world :))))))))) > > ...thank god that Fridays usually kill the unkillable threads of the > past > week :((( > > William Hindman > ipsedixitism: something is true because I myself have said it is true > ...the > philosophy of Noam Chomsky :) > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "John W. Colby" > To: "Access Developers discussion and problem solving" > > Sent: Friday, March 26, 2004 10:53 PM > Subject: RE: [AccessD] Lookup Fields in Table Design > > > > The real answer to this is to just shoot all users. Problem solved! > > > > John W. Colby > > www.ColbyConsulting.com > > > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > From wdhindman at bellsouth.net Sat Mar 27 13:31:20 2004 From: wdhindman at bellsouth.net (William Hindman) Date: Sat, 27 Mar 2004 14:31:20 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] 1st Anglo-Australian DBA Conference References: <8729197113.20040327190109@cactus.dk> Message-ID: <001f01c41432$150e5e40$6101a8c0@dejpolsys> ...btw, who the heck is the Rocky Somlin at www.databaseadvisors.com eh? ...couldn't be a reference to the King of OT ...he'd have someone's head! :( William Hindman ipsedixitism: something is true because I myself have said it is true ...the philosophy of Noam Chomsky :) ----- Original Message ----- From: "Gustav Brock" To: "Access Developers discussion and problem solving" Sent: Saturday, March 27, 2004 1:01 PM Subject: Re: [AccessD] 1st Anglo-Australian DBA Conference > Hi Jim > > Small, you bet ... no announcement was made. > 1st Secret DBA Conference? > How do one know when the next will take place? > (You guessed it: you won't!) > > Anyway, nice to see you abandoned the terrible Foster beer - probably > (you can't tell from the picture) in favour of the high-quality > domestic wine! > > /gustav > > > > The 1st Anglo-Australian DBA Conference was held a short while ago. It may > > have been small but it is a start. www.databaseadvisors.com > > > Jim > > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > From gustav at cactus.dk Sat Mar 27 13:41:41 2004 From: gustav at cactus.dk (Gustav Brock) Date: Sat, 27 Mar 2004 20:41:41 +0100 Subject: [AccessD] 1st Anglo-Australian DBA Conference In-Reply-To: <001f01c41432$150e5e40$6101a8c0@dejpolsys> References: <8729197113.20040327190109@cactus.dk> <001f01c41432$150e5e40$6101a8c0@dejpolsys> Message-ID: <7035229597.20040327204141@cactus.dk> Hi William - or the "im(materialized?) Lawrence"?? /gustav > ...btw, who the heck is the Rocky Somlin at www.databaseadvisors.com eh? > ...couldn't be a reference to the King of OT ...he'd have someone's head! :( > William Hindman > ipsedixitism: something is true because I myself have said it is true ...the > philosophy of Noam Chomsky :) > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Gustav Brock" > To: "Access Developers discussion and problem solving" > > Sent: Saturday, March 27, 2004 1:01 PM > Subject: Re: [AccessD] 1st Anglo-Australian DBA Conference >> Hi Jim >> >> Small, you bet ... no announcement was made. >> 1st Secret DBA Conference? >> How do one know when the next will take place? >> (You guessed it: you won't!) >> >> Anyway, nice to see you abandoned the terrible Foster beer - probably >> (you can't tell from the picture) in favour of the high-quality >> domestic wine! >> >> /gustav >> >> >> > The 1st Anglo-Australian DBA Conference was held a short while ago. It may >> > have been small but it is a start. www.databaseadvisors.com >> >> > Jim From jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com Sat Mar 27 15:05:35 2004 From: jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com (John W. Colby) Date: Sat, 27 Mar 2004 16:05:35 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Lookup Fields in Table Design In-Reply-To: <20040327144147.SRGI1729.imf24aec.mail.bellsouth.net@SUSANONE> Message-ID: And if you thought I was tongue-in-cheek insulting you. I WAS!. ;-) John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Susan Harkins Sent: Saturday, March 27, 2004 9:42 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: [AccessD] Lookup Fields in Table Design Hmmmmmm.... You suggest we shoot users, which means of course, we have no one to pay us for our work... And I was simply thinking a loud -- it would be nice to get paid for what we do without having to actually consider those we do it for. If you thought I was insulting you, I'm sorry, because I wasn't. Susan H. I guess considering what I have seen passed off as art, we could call yours.... uhhh..... Never mind. ;-) John W. Colby -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From john at winhaven.net Sat Mar 27 15:16:51 2004 From: john at winhaven.net (John Bartow) Date: Sat, 27 Mar 2004 15:16:51 -0600 Subject: [AccessD] Lookup Fields in Table Design In-Reply-To: <2F8793082E00D4119A1700B0D0216BF8022279D1@main2.marlow.com> Message-ID: Yes, so I will now change: "Data goes into black box - gets corrupted - data doesn't come out of black box." To: "Data goes into gray box - gets corrupted - data doesn't come out of gray box." ;o) It did help though explain the issue sayers regain +.5 Score: nay-sayers 4 / sayers 8 John -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of DWUTKA at marlow.com Sent: Friday, March 26, 2004 1:28 PM To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: RE: [AccessD] Lookup Fields in Table Design I'm shocked. I used Dev's site quite a bit, when I started out with Access. I really admire a lot of what he has done. However, I think a lot of what he has about Lookup Fields on there are wrong. I just changed my test, from a simple State lookup, to a StateID --> StateName setup. Added an ID (autonumber) field to tblStates, and then updated the data in my 'main' table to have the ID's, instead of the abbreviation. Then I switched it to a number field. I then copied the database again, and switched the copy to be a lookup field for the StateID. Compacted both (a little over 200,000 records in both), and NO difference in size. Without indexing... querying is the same speed, with indexing, the querying is still the same speed. However, I now noticed a difference in size, with a lookup field, when the field is indexed. That is definitely interesting. However, that goes away, if you use a callback function. VERY interesting. Have to give them half a point back, because there is a small amount of 'bloat', if you use a query/table for the lookup. But it's negligible, and also, both databases grow when you index the field, just grows a bit more. I would never really call that 'bloat'. Not trying to back track, but to me, bloat is when a database grows in size over time, but when compacted, it gets smaller. The portion that is 'reduced' is bloat. The portion left after the compact is 'overhead'. That's my definition. Admittedly, if you are going to run close to max db size, then lookups should be removed, to get that much more space. But we are talking overhead space, not really 'bloat'. As far as the compacting issue, that's another story. Microsoft has several good reasons for not releasing the inner workings of JET. First of all, there is the licensing issue. If you developed a software package you wanted people to buy, would you give anyone the source? Of course not. If MS gave out the inner workings of JET, it wouldn't be long until Access was unnecessary, because people would just roll their own JET engine. Another reason is support. Jet does a lot of stuff, so even if they did hand out the detailed specs, one little slip, and even a good developer could seriously fry an .mdb. There is nothing mysterious about corruption. It's usually easy to explain, and in most cases is fixable. What you must remember, is that file corruption is NOT limited to .mdb's. It can happen in any type of file. The difference between Access and other file types, however, is what makes it seem like more of an issue. A few years ago, our network was in a serious state of disrepair. We had file corruptions all over the place. That included Word and Excel files, and definitely included .mdb's. A file is nothing more then a series of bytes. With a bad network, flaky hard drive, corrupted OS, (and a million other reasons), it certainly is not impossible to goof a few bytes here and there. Now, depending on what kind of file it is, and what that file does, is going to determine how the corruption affects things. Take, for example, an .exe or .dll. Those files contain CPU instructions. Have you ever had a program start crashing on you? After an Uninstall and reinstall, everything is working again. A lot of times that is due to a file corruption. One corrupted (changed) byte in a .dll or .exe, and you are now changing how the CPU deals with that code. All sorts of things can happen. However, in something like and HTML file, HTML is designed to ignore what it doesn't understand, so it's nearly impossible to have normal file corruption do any real 'damage' to an HMTL file. The more common issues with Word and Excel are the 'locking' files. Something will goof in them, and then that file is locked out. Since Word/Excel is saving changes in those temp files, actual corruption in the original document is more rare (but not unheard of...excel and word have to update the original document when you save it, so that is when corruption can occur there). With an .mdb file, JET is monitoring who has what locked, is reading/updating indexes, reading/updating data, etc. A lot of activity in one file. The .ldb file is only storing who's logged in (and it is also used for locks within the .mdb, but other then the who's logged in, no other data is being changed in the .ldb, only locking bytes). Get a goofed byte in the mix, and things can either continue, go seriously awry, or somewhere in between. just depends what was affected. A lot of time, the corruption is simply someone's machine not 'closing' out of the database correctly. That is easily repaired. But if bytes are corrupted in the indexes, the table definitions, or in the code, that is something the system doesn't know how to 'replace', because it doesn't have a 'template' or 'starting point' to replace it with. As far as I know, the ONLY design issue KNOWN to corrupt a database, happens to lie with a problem between JET and Foxpro. Something about the differences between how JET deals with Memo fields, and Foxpro deals with them. Access does NOT corrupt .mdb's, it is an outside influence that does that. That is a VERY important concept to remember. Because of that, there are NO features within Access that will corrupt a database. (Yes, a feature could be programmed wrong, but Microsoft would eventually fix that with a service pack, because a self corrupting database system won't sell....). Recovering from a corruption all depends on where the corruption actually lies, which is not entirely blind luck. Since most corruption issues are only put into affect when a database is being read/locked/written, what you are reading/writing is usually going to be the place where the corruption lies. So it could be data within a table, table defs, indexes, code, etc. Practically everything used within a database. So not only are all database features designed to NOT corrupt the database, but they are also all prone to fail, if file corruption does occur. On top of that, all features have their own quirks as to the difficulties of recovering. Corruption in the data isn't too bad, since you'll just get a bad record or two. Corruption in code is more difficult, because it will probably lock up quite a bit of the code, but that can be returned. Corruption within a tabledef, or index can affect whether the data is easily retrievable, since JET uses them when retrieving it. Hope that clears up some of the mystery for you. Drew -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of John Bartow Sent: Friday, March 26, 2004 10:39 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] Lookup Fields in Table Design Hi Drew, Don't misunderstand me, your points are well taken, and you have my utmost respect as a developer/programmer. Corruption is just a hot spot on my psyche. If I knew HOW it was caused it would be different and that's the issue - apparently no one (including M$) does or they would prevent it. Even when considering that M$ allows some things to happen/not happen as a bone thrown to its third party developers, no one has a corruption fixing utility that works and is making money off of. "Data goes into black box - gets corrupted - data doesn't come out of black box." That's actually my biggest concern with Access. The absolute (publicly) undocumented proprietary nature of it. Sometimes I think the (publicly) can be left out of the statement. I'm actually quite surprised by the results of this little debate. Ken, Charlotte, Dev, Lebans and others all warn against it. I think the question I posed here to Susan concerning lookups originally came to mind about 5 years ago when I saw it on Dev's website under the "ten rules". I don't follow "rules" - when I see the word "rule" my mind automatically translates it to "strong guideline", but it made me curious. Like I said I don't generally use lookups, I have, and I will if the situation calls for them again. -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of DWUTKA at marlow.com Sent: Friday, March 26, 2004 1:17 AM To: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com; accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: RE: [AccessD] Lookup Fields in Table Design John, the points are cute, but the problem is that Lookup fields do NOT cause corruption. He said they made it more difficult to fix. There are a TON of things (that everyone uses) that make repairing corruption more difficult. Essentially, if you make a blank database, and put it on CD, you stand the best chances of recovering that database when it's completely blank, and never used. Once you start adding data, code, objecs, etc, you are adding things which can complicate a recovery. So it's a no pointer / moot point, to say that lookup's made a particular recovery difficult. If there had been a bit of error handling code, which got in the way of recovering a database, would you say 'I'll never use Error Handling code, because it made my life difficult once'? I didn't think so. Drew -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From john at winhaven.net Sat Mar 27 15:16:51 2004 From: john at winhaven.net (John Bartow) Date: Sat, 27 Mar 2004 15:16:51 -0600 Subject: [AccessD] Lookup Fields in Table Design In-Reply-To: <13445341026.20040326212216@cactus.dk> Message-ID: I have, many times - unfortunately ;o) John -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Gustav Brock Sent: Friday, March 26, 2004 2:22 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Lookup Fields in Table Design Hi Susan > And this discussion becomes moot (isn't that the wording for such a > situation you use "over there"?) > ========Typical developer response. :) You assume the average user knows how > to do that -- controls inherit the lookup field, so the user doesn't even > need to bother -- it is already there! It isn't moot yet. ;) You are right. I have yet to see a user using Access as a desktop application - they just don't understand what a relational database is - and I only deal with split database design. /gustav -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From john at winhaven.net Sat Mar 27 15:16:52 2004 From: john at winhaven.net (John Bartow) Date: Sat, 27 Mar 2004 15:16:52 -0600 Subject: [AccessD] Lookup Fields in Table Design In-Reply-To: <19339509551.20040326194505@cactus.dk> Message-ID: Gustav: I understand your point. When you drag a feild from the field list of a form onto the form Access sets the row source type to table/query and creates the query definition for row source based on the lookup property. True its not a defined query available in the query defs collection, its stored in the controls properties but it no longer is tied to the table's field lookup propertie. At least in A97 it works this way. -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Gustav Brock Sent: Friday, March 26, 2004 12:45 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Lookup Fields in Table Design Hi John > I believe the discussion is: why not (use the lookups property)? In that case I can't tell; I've just never felt the need as form design for my part never is "very simple" and I always use queries as recordsource for forms and combos. For me tables are tables. However, if anyone find lookups in tables of value, feel free - but I don't think I'll join the party. As I told, I've used them once (in queries) only) - that's all. /gustav -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From john at winhaven.net Sat Mar 27 15:26:03 2004 From: john at winhaven.net (John Bartow) Date: Sat, 27 Mar 2004 15:26:03 -0600 Subject: [AccessD] Lookup Fields in Table Design In-Reply-To: <20040326195657.VRXF1780.imf23aec.mail.bellsouth.net@SUSANONE> Message-ID: Sorry Susan but I can't abide by that. My definitions: "Bloat is a recoverable size increase, for which the cause of is sometimes unknown." "Overhead is an unrecoverable change in size due to something that was done intentionally." So if one wanted to reduce the size they could intentionally set the lookup property back to default. Score: nay-sayers 4 / sayers 8 -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Susan Harkins Sent: Friday, March 26, 2004 1:57 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: [AccessD] Lookup Fields in Table Design VERY interesting. Have to give them half a point back, because there is a small amount of 'bloat', if you use a query/table for the lookup. But it's negligible, and also, both databases grow when you index the field, just grows a bit more. I would never really call that 'bloat'. Not trying to back track, but to me, bloat is when a database grows in size over time, but when compacted, it gets smaller. The portion that is 'reduced' is bloat. The portion left after the compact is 'overhead'. That's my definition. Admittedly, if you are going to run close to max db size, then lookups should be removed, to get that much more space. But we are talking overhead space, not really 'bloat'. ==============Wait!!!!!!!!!!! Is it true bloat, or just normal increase due to feature use. I mean, if you use it, it's going to cost something somewhere. So don't be so quick to label it -- but if it really bloat, then OK. :) Susan H. -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From john at winhaven.net Sat Mar 27 15:44:33 2004 From: john at winhaven.net (John Bartow) Date: Sat, 27 Mar 2004 15:44:33 -0600 Subject: [AccessD] Lookup Fields in Table Design In-Reply-To: <004101c41372$0cda2940$2a3ca8c0@TEXASSYSTEMS.COM> Message-ID: Ken: They are embedded in Access, whether or not you use them to your advantage so this point is "moot". John Tell me, who in the general database community thinks this is a good idea? Please, show me the data modeling book that has a step that says "embed client-side UI elements in the table design". Looking beyond the uncertainty that table lookup fields introduce to the reliability of the backend, I honestly can't see how you are going to get ahead in the long run with it. It fills no functional niche that isn't covered by more standard, broadly accepted techniques. Finally, it is the little hassles that this feature consistently gives that have caused me to largely abandon it. -Ken -- From john at winhaven.net Sat Mar 27 15:44:34 2004 From: john at winhaven.net (John Bartow) Date: Sat, 27 Mar 2004 15:44:34 -0600 Subject: [AccessD] Lookup Fields in Table Design In-Reply-To: <2F8793082E00D4119A1700B0D0216BF8022279DA@main2.marlow.com> Message-ID: Well thanks, but I'm going to have to say I can't abide those points as they really added nothing to the subject of the debate. :o) -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of DWUTKA at marlow.com Sent: Friday, March 26, 2004 2:39 PM To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: RE: [AccessD] Lookup Fields in Table Design Well put, three points for the score keeper...that puts you in second place! LOL Drew -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of John Bartow Sent: Friday, March 26, 2004 12:50 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] Lookup Fields in Table Design Charlotte, You'll find that most people are more strongly opinionated than I am (on many issues). While I may jest about starting flame wars, I really don't enjoy seeing people argue. However, I do enjoy seeing people debate an issue. Especially a group with as intelligent and capable people as we have here. There are many lists where one gets chastised for not conforming to the group mentality (most generally the "bully" of the group's mentality)- I don't stick around those lists very long - not because I can't take getting chastised but because there is really not much one can learn from people who think they have all of the answers for all eternity! And there is certainly little opportunity for me to "help" anyone in that situation. I do try to give back what I can on any list I am on (including directing people to this list). I question the status quo. I listen to all sides of an issue (and there are usually more than two sides). I make a decision. I recommend things based on informed decisions. I accept that not everyone is going to take my recommendations. I revisit my decisions on a regular basis to see if there are compelling reasons to change them. I believe this is why I am a very good "consultant". John PS: We'll just leave my capabilities as a "programmer" out of it! ;o) -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Charlotte Foust Sent: Friday, March 26, 2004 12:19 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] Lookup Fields in Table Design John, You are NOT getting into the spirit of this discussion. Reasonableness has no place here! Charlotte Foust -----Original Message----- From: John Bartow [mailto:john at winhaven.net] Sent: Friday, March 26, 2004 10:00 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] Lookup Fields in Table Design Here's a stretch but... For people that like to use the added form designing capabilites of the lookup property, once the table design and realtionships are complete you could set the desired lookup properties. Design all of the forms for the application. When the application design is complete you could run code that iterates the table collection and eliminates all lookup properties in the table design. This in essence would eliminate the corruption and performance issues. Eh? -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Charlotte Foust Sent: Friday, March 26, 2004 11:39 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] Lookup Fields in Table Design There is also the issue of TableID limits, which I believe include all the tables involved as lookups. Charlotte Foust -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From john at winhaven.net Sat Mar 27 15:44:34 2004 From: john at winhaven.net (John Bartow) Date: Sat, 27 Mar 2004 15:44:34 -0600 Subject: [AccessD] Lookup Fields in Table Design In-Reply-To: <20040326210257.JRPL1763.imf25aec.mail.bellsouth.net@SUSANONE> Message-ID: Yes, that was very polite. But my experience is much different than Gustav's. I have seen many users (at least attempting to) use access as a desktop application. It is scarey too! No points. -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Susan Harkins Sent: Friday, March 26, 2004 3:03 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: [AccessD] Lookup Fields in Table Design You are right. I have yet to see a user using Access as a desktop application - they just don't understand what a relational database is - and I only deal with split database design. ==John, I guess Gustav has earned the nays a half point, just for politeness! ;) Susan H. -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From john at winhaven.net Sat Mar 27 15:53:44 2004 From: john at winhaven.net (John Bartow) Date: Sat, 27 Mar 2004 15:53:44 -0600 Subject: [AccessD] Lookup Fields in Table Design In-Reply-To: <006401c4139b$cc6423f0$2a3ca8c0@TEXASSYSTEMS.COM> Message-ID: Uhmmm, just to clarify, a grain of sand does make a ripple. A very small ripple that some creatures can't see but a ripple non the less. Second, if you throw a grain of sand in the water, it doesn't make a ripple. From john at winhaven.net Sat Mar 27 15:53:44 2004 From: john at winhaven.net (John Bartow) Date: Sat, 27 Mar 2004 15:53:44 -0600 Subject: [AccessD] Lookup Fields in Table Design In-Reply-To: <406572DF.12892.A02D3F@localhost> Message-ID: +.5 for the sayers! Score: nay-sayers 4 / sayers 8.5 -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Stuart McLachlan Sent: Friday, March 26, 2004 8:26 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problemsolving Subject: RE: [AccessD] Lookup Fields in Table Design On 26 Mar 2004 at 19:35, Ken Ismert wrote: > > >It doesn't affect that, BECAUSE it's a property that is only > >looked at by the Wizards, NOT by Jet, when retrieving the data. > > Its used in queries too. Queries inherit this stuff from the table they are > based on. > Queries don't use it. The object which Access uses to display the results of queries does. If I pull a "Select * from tblMyTable", my recordset doesn't know anything about the combobox bound to fldMyLookup - or about any table used for the lookup on that field. If however, I use the Query Datasheet to display it, the datasheet will look at the table definition to determine how it is displayed by default (which can be overwritten by defining a different display format in the query grid itself). In essence, the lookup property(ies) of a field in a table are no different to the Format, and Caption properties. They are used to define the *default* way that the data in the table is displayed in the GUI. You can overwrite this default in any query grid, form control, report control that you create. It has nothing to do with how a recordset is actually retreived by Jet. -- Lexacorp Ltd http://www.lexacorp.com.pg Information Technology Consultancy, Software Development,System Support. -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From john at winhaven.net Sat Mar 27 15:53:45 2004 From: john at winhaven.net (John Bartow) Date: Sat, 27 Mar 2004 15:53:45 -0600 Subject: [AccessD] Lookup Fields in Table Design In-Reply-To: <004801c413c7$00a72470$6101a8c0@dejpolsys> Message-ID: -5 points to everyone in Florida! ;o) -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of William Hindman Sent: Saturday, March 27, 2004 12:45 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Lookup Fields in Table Design ...at long, long, long, long last!!!! ...a post in this endless, angels on a pinhead, thread that actually would produce a positive result in my workday world :))))))))) ...thank god that Fridays usually kill the unkillable threads of the past week :((( William Hindman ipsedixitism: something is true because I myself have said it is true ...the philosophy of Noam Chomsky :) ----- Original Message ----- From: "John W. Colby" To: "Access Developers discussion and problem solving" Sent: Friday, March 26, 2004 10:53 PM Subject: RE: [AccessD] Lookup Fields in Table Design > The real answer to this is to just shoot all users. Problem solved! > > John W. Colby > www.ColbyConsulting.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From john at winhaven.net Sat Mar 27 15:53:45 2004 From: john at winhaven.net (John Bartow) Date: Sat, 27 Mar 2004 15:53:45 -0600 Subject: [AccessD] Lookup Fields in Table Design In-Reply-To: <2F8793082E00D4119A1700B0D0216BF8022279EB@main2.marlow.com> Message-ID: unnecessarily derogatory remark -.5 sayers Score: nay-sayers 4 / sayers 7.5 -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of DWUTKA at marlow.com Sent: Saturday, March 27, 2004 11:59 AM To: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com; accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: RE: [AccessD] Lookup Fields in Table Design Thank you! I was beginning to think that I was talking to a wall there. Everything I have tested shows that the DefaultControl property does absolutely nothing to how JET retrieves data, and only slightly affects how JET stores data (because it does setup a relationship, if you have an ID field with a lookup of a related table. But it's no more 'work' then if you just set the relationship up in the database, in the first place. All I'm getting from Ken is, 'It's just not standard practice, so it must be bad'. Ugh. Drew -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Sent: 3/26/04 8:26 PM Subject: RE: [AccessD] Lookup Fields in Table Design On 26 Mar 2004 at 19:35, Ken Ismert wrote: > > >It doesn't affect that, BECAUSE it's a property that is only > >looked at by the Wizards, NOT by Jet, when retrieving the data. > > Its used in queries too. Queries inherit this stuff from the table they are > based on. > Queries don't use it. The object which Access uses to display the results of queries does. If I pull a "Select * from tblMyTable", my recordset doesn't know anything about the combobox bound to fldMyLookup - or about any table used for the lookup on that field. If however, I use the Query Datasheet to display it, the datasheet will look at the table definition to determine how it is displayed by default (which can be overwritten by defining a different display format in the query grid itself). In essence, the lookup property(ies) of a field in a table are no different to the Format, and Caption properties. They are used to define the *default* way that the data in the table is displayed in the GUI. You can overwrite this default in any query grid, form control, report control that you create. It has nothing to do with how a recordset is actually retreived by Jet. -- Lexacorp Ltd http://www.lexacorp.com.pg Information Technology Consultancy, Software Development,System Support. -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From john at winhaven.net Sat Mar 27 15:53:46 2004 From: john at winhaven.net (John Bartow) Date: Sat, 27 Mar 2004 15:53:46 -0600 Subject: [AccessD] Lookup Fields in Table Design In-Reply-To: <2F8793082E00D4119A1700B0D0216BF8022279E0@main2.marlow.com> Message-ID: Oh, well see it was simple ;o) Score Stands at: nay-sayers 4 / sayers 8 -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of DWUTKA at marlow.com Sent: Friday, March 26, 2004 3:22 PM To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: RE: [AccessD] Lookup Fields in Table Design It's nitty gritty, but it does the job: On Error Resume Next Dim db As Database Dim tblTemp As TableDef Dim fld As Field Set db = CurrentDb For Each tblTemp In db.TableDefs For Each fld In tblTemp.Fields If fld.Properties("DisplayControl") <> 109 Then If Err = 0 Then fld.Properties("DisplayControl").Value = 109 Else Err.Clear End If End If Next Next Set db = Nothing Drew -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Ken Ismert Sent: Friday, March 26, 2004 2:33 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: [AccessD] Lookup Fields in Table Design McCool. If you have code that does that, I'd love to see it. -Ken -----Original Message----- From: John Bartow [mailto:john at winhaven.net] Sent: Friday, March 26, 2004 12:00 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] Lookup Fields in Table Design Here's a stretch but... For people that like to use the added form designing capabilites of the lookup property, once the table design and realtionships are complete you could set the desired lookup properties. Design all of the forms for the application. When the application design is complete you could run code that iterates the table collection and eliminates all lookup properties in the table design. This in essence would eliminate the corruption and performance issues. Eh? -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Charlotte Foust Sent: Friday, March 26, 2004 11:39 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] Lookup Fields in Table Design There is also the issue of TableID limits, which I believe include all the tables involved as lookups. Charlotte Foust -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From stephen at bondsoftware.co.nz Sat Mar 27 15:52:14 2004 From: stephen at bondsoftware.co.nz (Stephen Bond) Date: Sun, 28 Mar 2004 09:52:14 +1200 Subject: [AccessD] 1st Anglo-Australian DBA Conference Message-ID: <70F3D727890C784291D8433E9C418F290886BA@server.bondsoftware.co.nz> OK, I'll bite ... can't see it on www.databaseadvisors.com - when and where? Stephen Bond > -----Original Message----- > From: Jim Lawrence (AccessD) [mailto:accessd at shaw.ca] > Sent: Sunday, 28 March 2004 5:39 a.m. > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: [AccessD] 1st Anglo-Australian DBA Conference > > > Hi All: > > The 1st Anglo-Australian DBA Conference was held a short > while ago. It may > have been small but it is a start. www.databaseadvisors.com > > Jim > > > > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > From john at winhaven.net Sat Mar 27 15:54:28 2004 From: john at winhaven.net (John Bartow) Date: Sat, 27 Mar 2004 15:54:28 -0600 Subject: [AccessD] Lookup Fields in Table Design In-Reply-To: <004001c41371$8c3b1150$2a3ca8c0@TEXASSYSTEMS.COM> Message-ID: McNo. I don't actually use the lookup property so I don't need the code. I would be s a simple property change so it shouldn't be difficult to do if you really want it though. John -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Ken Ismert Sent: Friday, March 26, 2004 2:33 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: [AccessD] Lookup Fields in Table Design McCool. If you have code that does that, I'd love to see it. -Ken -----Original Message----- From: John Bartow [mailto:john at winhaven.net] Sent: Friday, March 26, 2004 12:00 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] Lookup Fields in Table Design Here's a stretch but... For people that like to use the added form designing capabilites of the lookup property, once the table design and realtionships are complete you could set the desired lookup properties. Design all of the forms for the application. When the application design is complete you could run code that iterates the table collection and eliminates all lookup properties in the table design. This in essence would eliminate the corruption and performance issues. Eh? -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Charlotte Foust Sent: Friday, March 26, 2004 11:39 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] Lookup Fields in Table Design There is also the issue of TableID limits, which I believe include all the tables involved as lookups. Charlotte Foust -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From stephen at bondsoftware.co.nz Sat Mar 27 15:54:51 2004 From: stephen at bondsoftware.co.nz (Stephen Bond) Date: Sun, 28 Mar 2004 09:54:51 +1200 Subject: [AccessD] 1st Anglo-Australian DBA Conference Message-ID: <70F3D727890C784291D8433E9C418F290886BB@server.bondsoftware.co.nz> Silly boy, went back and had another look. Too early in the morning ...! Stephen Bond > -----Original Message----- > From: Jim Lawrence (AccessD) [mailto:accessd at shaw.ca] > Sent: Sunday, 28 March 2004 5:39 a.m. > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: [AccessD] 1st Anglo-Australian DBA Conference > > > Hi All: > > The 1st Anglo-Australian DBA Conference was held a short > while ago. It may > have been small but it is a start. www.databaseadvisors.com > > Jim > > > > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > From djkr at msn.com Sat Mar 27 16:04:06 2004 From: djkr at msn.com (DJK(John) Robinson) Date: Sat, 27 Mar 2004 22:04:06 -0000 Subject: [AccessD] OT: Hard Drives, RAID, backup setup In-Reply-To: <16629930808.20040327191323@cactus.dk> Message-ID: <004701c41447$6c50e190$bf00a8c0@dabsight> RAID - the movie; see http://www.acnc.com/04_01_00_flash.html Not quite as good/accurate/complete as it could be, though. John > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of > Gustav Brock > Sent: 27 March 2004 18:13 > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: Re: [AccessD] OT: Hard Drives, RAID, backup setup > > > Hi Drew > > > Haven't had my coffee yet, but I thought RAID 0 was a > mirror, and RAID > > 1 was a stripe. I'm a little groggy, so if you can't find it on > > google somewhere, and really want to know, I'll go look it up. > > Nope - you certainly miss both the coffee and the orange juice: > > http://www.arstechnica.com/paedia/r/raid-1.html > > http://www.arstechnica.com/paedia/r/raid-2.html > > Also, RAID 0-1 and 1-0: > > http://www.ofb.net/~jheiss/raid10/ > > /gustav > > > > Plain mirror is RAID 1, isn't it? > > > And you can always go to SATA these days, up to 8 drives on > a PCI card > > - given the right PCI interface - RAID 0, 1, 5, 10 or JBOD. > > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > From ssharkins at bellsouth.net Sat Mar 27 16:14:33 2004 From: ssharkins at bellsouth.net (Susan Harkins) Date: Sat, 27 Mar 2004 17:14:33 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Lookup Fields in Table Design In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <20040327221432.ILXW1781.imf18aec.mail.bellsouth.net@SUSANONE> Well, that's what I was asking! ;) Susan H. Sorry Susan but I can't abide by that. My definitions: "Bloat is a recoverable size increase, for which the cause of is sometimes unknown." "Overhead is an unrecoverable change in size due to something that was done intentionally." So if one wanted to reduce the size they could intentionally set the lookup property back to default. Score: nay-sayers 4 / sayers 8 -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Susan Harkins Sent: Friday, March 26, 2004 1:57 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: [AccessD] Lookup Fields in Table Design VERY interesting. Have to give them half a point back, because there is a small amount of 'bloat', if you use a query/table for the lookup. But it's negligible, and also, both databases grow when you index the field, just grows a bit more. I would never really call that 'bloat'. Not trying to back track, but to me, bloat is when a database grows in size over time, but when compacted, it gets smaller. The portion that is 'reduced' is bloat. The portion left after the compact is 'overhead'. That's my definition. Admittedly, if you are going to run close to max db size, then lookups should be removed, to get that much more space. But we are talking overhead space, not really 'bloat'. ==============Wait!!!!!!!!!!! Is it true bloat, or just normal increase due to feature use. I mean, if you use it, it's going to cost something somewhere. So don't be so quick to label it -- but if it really bloat, then OK. :) Susan H. -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From ssharkins at bellsouth.net Sat Mar 27 16:16:30 2004 From: ssharkins at bellsouth.net (Susan Harkins) Date: Sat, 27 Mar 2004 17:16:30 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Lookup Fields in Table Design In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <20040327221629.IMIZ1781.imf18aec.mail.bellsouth.net@SUSANONE> OK, if they can't get points for politeness, they shouldn't lose points for the lack of it. Right? Susan H. unnecessarily derogatory remark -.5 sayers From john at winhaven.net Sat Mar 27 16:47:49 2004 From: john at winhaven.net (John Bartow) Date: Sat, 27 Mar 2004 16:47:49 -0600 Subject: [AccessD] Lookup Fields in Table Design In-Reply-To: <20040327221629.IMIZ1781.imf18aec.mail.bellsouth.net@SUSANONE> Message-ID: Not IMO. But this is probably a topic for the OT list anyway - then William can slam me too. (I think he's ignoring this thread now.) ;o) I think as a civilized people we should expect politeness not reward it. With a group of people whom we are familiar, we can dispense with some of the more rigorous practices of being polite. But we should never be rude and we should let it be known that we do not embrace rude behavior. OTH, reward and punishment for children should eventually lead them into behaving as above. My minus points for rudeness are only to encourage the context of the dialog being continued in a productive meaningful exchange of ideas. Sometimes these little debate can turn ugly due to one comment being received by one person who happens to be in the wrong state of mind. Since _I_ can't actually make people stop participating in a email debate I try to encourage them to check the derogatory or aggressive tones. I have had an eye opening experience with this particular debate. I may actually try using this feature again. We'll see where it ends up. Maybe Dev Ashish will join in here before its over. E-gads! I wrote "behaviour" and the spell check caught it. I catch myself writing "grey" and "colour" a lot too. I'm melting... -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Susan Harkins Sent: Saturday, March 27, 2004 4:16 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: [AccessD] Lookup Fields in Table Design OK, if they can't get points for politeness, they shouldn't lose points for the lack of it. Right? Susan H. unnecessarily derogatory remark -.5 sayers -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From john at winhaven.net Sat Mar 27 16:47:50 2004 From: john at winhaven.net (John Bartow) Date: Sat, 27 Mar 2004 16:47:50 -0600 Subject: [AccessD] Lookup Fields in Table Design In-Reply-To: <20040327221432.ILXW1781.imf18aec.mail.bellsouth.net@SUSANONE> Message-ID: Susan: I'm sorry I meant to write that to Drew's comment: Have to give them half a point back, because there is a small amount of 'bloat', if you use a query/table for the lookup. I think he later rescinded on it anyway :o) -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Susan Harkins Sent: Saturday, March 27, 2004 4:15 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: [AccessD] Lookup Fields in Table Design Well, that's what I was asking! ;) Susan H. Sorry Susan but I can't abide by that. My definitions: "Bloat is a recoverable size increase, for which the cause of is sometimes unknown." "Overhead is an unrecoverable change in size due to something that was done intentionally." So if one wanted to reduce the size they could intentionally set the lookup property back to default. Score: nay-sayers 4 / sayers 8 -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Susan Harkins Sent: Friday, March 26, 2004 1:57 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: [AccessD] Lookup Fields in Table Design VERY interesting. Have to give them half a point back, because there is a small amount of 'bloat', if you use a query/table for the lookup. But it's negligible, and also, both databases grow when you index the field, just grows a bit more. I would never really call that 'bloat'. Not trying to back track, but to me, bloat is when a database grows in size over time, but when compacted, it gets smaller. The portion that is 'reduced' is bloat. The portion left after the compact is 'overhead'. That's my definition. Admittedly, if you are going to run close to max db size, then lookups should be removed, to get that much more space. But we are talking overhead space, not really 'bloat'. ==============Wait!!!!!!!!!!! Is it true bloat, or just normal increase due to feature use. I mean, if you use it, it's going to cost something somewhere. So don't be so quick to label it -- but if it really bloat, then OK. :) Susan H. -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From KIsmert at TexasSystems.com Sat Mar 27 16:57:07 2004 From: KIsmert at TexasSystems.com (Ken Ismert) Date: Sat, 27 Mar 2004 16:57:07 -0600 Subject: [AccessD] Lookup Fields in Table Design - Coup de Grace In-Reply-To: <2F8793082E00D4119A1700B0D0216BF8022279D8@main2.marlow.com> Message-ID: <005101c4144e$d4b1c040$2a3ca8c0@TEXASSYSTEMS.COM> A little scenario: At the international company you work for, you have been given two customer databases to work with. One is for your US data, the other from Mexico. Inspecting both, you can clearly see that, years ago, the Mexican db was adapted from the US original. In each db, you see two tables you're interested in, tblAddresses and tblStates. While the Mexican tblAddresses has been modified somewhat, tblStates has remained unchanged, with two fields, StateID and Name, both text. The US version of tblStates contains Alabama to Wyoming, while the Mexican one naturally contains Aguascalientes to Zacatecas, with their abbreviations in the StateID field. Critically, you also notice that table field lookups were also defined for the StateID field in each tblAddresses table. So, you build your frontend and link the US tables. You also link the Mexican tables, which show up as tblAddresses1 and tblStates1. Next, you open the linked tblAddresses (US version). The table lookups do their job, showing 'Alabama' for AL, etc. Happy, you open the linked tblAddresses1 (Mexican version) ... wait ... all hell has broken loose! Instead of the Mexican state names, you see only the StateID codes, along with some US State names ... what the!?!? After some digging, you find the problem: the table field lookup in the Mexican version of tblAddresses. While it works correctly in the backend, it fails in the frontend, because the lookup SQL in the linked tblAddresses1 now refers to the *linked* tblState, which holds the US data, not tblState1, which holds the correct Mexican data! This demonstrates that table field lookups, by themselves, can cause incorrect query results. But it gets worse. The original programmer that setup the databases didn't know too much about table design, and did not establish a relationship between tblAddresses and tblStates, only indexes. This means that you now have a situation where you can enter incorrect values into a table from the wrong lookup table! If you were under pressure, and didn't catch this error, and allowed data entry on a frontend with this problem, the results would be disastrous. What has been shown here, and validated in my testing, is that table field lookups can cause inaccurate results, and an insidious form of data corruption. It is important to emphasize that table field lookups are the single point of failure in this scenario. Removing them from the backend tables solves the problem, by making you match the correct main/lookup tables in a frontend query. If you had used any method other than table field lookups initially, you would have avoided this fiasco completely. By violating the principle of client/server separation, and embedding client-side UI elements in data tables, table field lookups are data land mines, just waiting to bite you at some later date. When you use them, you are embedding an implicit external context assumption into your table. In this case, the assumption was 'my external name will always be tblState'. Anytime this assumption is violated, table field lookups will fail. For this, and the other reasons that I have outlined, table field lookups are a BAD IDEA. Match point: Naysayers. Game: Naysayers. Hey, Susan ... your marshmallows have grown cold!. Pass 'em over here, I'm in the mood for s'mores! -Ken From wdhindman at bellsouth.net Sat Mar 27 16:57:41 2004 From: wdhindman at bellsouth.net (William Hindman) Date: Sat, 27 Mar 2004 17:57:41 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Lookup Fields in Table Design References: Message-ID: <002c01c4144e$e8b88d30$6101a8c0@dejpolsys> ...a pointless argument in a pointless thread :)))))))))) William Hindman ipsedixitism: something is true because I myself have said it is true ...the philosophy of Noam Chomsky :) ----- Original Message ----- From: "John Bartow" To: "Access Developers discussion and problem solving" Sent: Saturday, March 27, 2004 5:47 PM Subject: RE: [AccessD] Lookup Fields in Table Design > Not IMO. But this is probably a topic for the OT list anyway - then William > can slam me too. (I think he's ignoring this thread now.) > ;o) > > I think as a civilized people we should expect politeness not reward it. > With a group of people whom we are familiar, we can dispense with some of > the more rigorous practices of being polite. But we should never be rude and > we should let it be known that we do not embrace rude behavior. > > OTH, reward and punishment for children should eventually lead them into > behaving as above. > > My minus points for rudeness are only to encourage the context of the dialog > being continued in a productive meaningful exchange of ideas. Sometimes > these little debate can turn ugly due to one comment being received by one > person who happens to be in the wrong state of mind. Since _I_ can't > actually make people stop participating in a email debate I try to encourage > them to check the derogatory or aggressive tones. > > I have had an eye opening experience with this particular debate. I may > actually try using this feature again. We'll see where it ends up. Maybe Dev > Ashish will join in here before its over. > > E-gads! I wrote "behaviour" and the spell check caught it. I catch myself > writing "grey" and "colour" a lot too. I'm melting... > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Susan Harkins > Sent: Saturday, March 27, 2004 4:16 PM > To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' > Subject: RE: [AccessD] Lookup Fields in Table Design > > > OK, if they can't get points for politeness, they shouldn't lose points for > the lack of it. Right? > > Susan H. > > unnecessarily derogatory remark -.5 sayers > > > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > From john at winhaven.net Sat Mar 27 17:12:45 2004 From: john at winhaven.net (John Bartow) Date: Sat, 27 Mar 2004 17:12:45 -0600 Subject: [AccessD] Lookup Fields in Table Design - Coup de Grace In-Reply-To: <005101c4144e$d4b1c040$2a3ca8c0@TEXASSYSTEMS.COM> Message-ID: Ken, Do you play poker, were you just holding that in reserve!? ;o) Actually this scenario assumes an awful lot of bad practices to blame it solely on the lookup property. But I get your point. 4 points! Score Stands at: nay-sayers 8 / sayers 8 John PS: However, if the developer had followed my idea of setting all of the table lookup properties back to the default after completing their form development this wouldn't have happened. -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Ken Ismert Sent: Saturday, March 27, 2004 4:57 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: [AccessD] Lookup Fields in Table Design - Coup de Grace A little scenario: At the international company you work for, you have been given two customer databases to work with. One is for your US data, the other from Mexico. Inspecting both, you can clearly see that, years ago, the Mexican db was adapted from the US original. In each db, you see two tables you're interested in, tblAddresses and tblStates. While the Mexican tblAddresses has been modified somewhat, tblStates has remained unchanged, with two fields, StateID and Name, both text. The US version of tblStates contains Alabama to Wyoming, while the Mexican one naturally contains Aguascalientes to Zacatecas, with their abbreviations in the StateID field. Critically, you also notice that table field lookups were also defined for the StateID field in each tblAddresses table. So, you build your frontend and link the US tables. You also link the Mexican tables, which show up as tblAddresses1 and tblStates1. Next, you open the linked tblAddresses (US version). The table lookups do their job, showing 'Alabama' for AL, etc. Happy, you open the linked tblAddresses1 (Mexican version) ... wait ... all hell has broken loose! Instead of the Mexican state names, you see only the StateID codes, along with some US State names ... what the!?!? After some digging, you find the problem: the table field lookup in the Mexican version of tblAddresses. While it works correctly in the backend, it fails in the frontend, because the lookup SQL in the linked tblAddresses1 now refers to the *linked* tblState, which holds the US data, not tblState1, which holds the correct Mexican data! This demonstrates that table field lookups, by themselves, can cause incorrect query results. But it gets worse. The original programmer that setup the databases didn't know too much about table design, and did not establish a relationship between tblAddresses and tblStates, only indexes. This means that you now have a situation where you can enter incorrect values into a table from the wrong lookup table! If you were under pressure, and didn't catch this error, and allowed data entry on a frontend with this problem, the results would be disastrous. What has been shown here, and validated in my testing, is that table field lookups can cause inaccurate results, and an insidious form of data corruption. It is important to emphasize that table field lookups are the single point of failure in this scenario. Removing them from the backend tables solves the problem, by making you match the correct main/lookup tables in a frontend query. If you had used any method other than table field lookups initially, you would have avoided this fiasco completely. By violating the principle of client/server separation, and embedding client-side UI elements in data tables, table field lookups are data land mines, just waiting to bite you at some later date. When you use them, you are embedding an implicit external context assumption into your table. In this case, the assumption was 'my external name will always be tblState'. Anytime this assumption is violated, table field lookups will fail. For this, and the other reasons that I have outlined, table field lookups are a BAD IDEA. Match point: Naysayers. Game: Naysayers. Hey, Susan ... your marshmallows have grown cold!. Pass 'em over here, I'm in the mood for s'mores! -Ken -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From john at winhaven.net Sat Mar 27 17:15:12 2004 From: john at winhaven.net (John Bartow) Date: Sat, 27 Mar 2004 17:15:12 -0600 Subject: [AccessD] Lookup Fields in Table Design In-Reply-To: <002c01c4144e$e8b88d30$6101a8c0@dejpolsys> Message-ID: There's been a few points here! <:o) -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of William Hindman Sent: Saturday, March 27, 2004 4:58 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Lookup Fields in Table Design ...a pointless argument in a pointless thread :)))))))))) William Hindman ipsedixitism: something is true because I myself have said it is true ...the philosophy of Noam Chomsky :) ----- Original Message ----- From: "John Bartow" To: "Access Developers discussion and problem solving" Sent: Saturday, March 27, 2004 5:47 PM Subject: RE: [AccessD] Lookup Fields in Table Design > Not IMO. But this is probably a topic for the OT list anyway - then William > can slam me too. (I think he's ignoring this thread now.) > ;o) > > I think as a civilized people we should expect politeness not reward it. > With a group of people whom we are familiar, we can dispense with some of > the more rigorous practices of being polite. But we should never be rude and > we should let it be known that we do not embrace rude behavior. > > OTH, reward and punishment for children should eventually lead them into > behaving as above. > > My minus points for rudeness are only to encourage the context of the dialog > being continued in a productive meaningful exchange of ideas. Sometimes > these little debate can turn ugly due to one comment being received by one > person who happens to be in the wrong state of mind. Since _I_ can't > actually make people stop participating in a email debate I try to encourage > them to check the derogatory or aggressive tones. > > I have had an eye opening experience with this particular debate. I may > actually try using this feature again. We'll see where it ends up. Maybe Dev > Ashish will join in here before its over. > > E-gads! I wrote "behaviour" and the spell check caught it. I catch myself > writing "grey" and "colour" a lot too. I'm melting... > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Susan Harkins > Sent: Saturday, March 27, 2004 4:16 PM > To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' > Subject: RE: [AccessD] Lookup Fields in Table Design > > > OK, if they can't get points for politeness, they shouldn't lose points for > the lack of it. Right? > > Susan H. > > unnecessarily derogatory remark -.5 sayers > > > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From john at winhaven.net Sat Mar 27 17:35:07 2004 From: john at winhaven.net (John Bartow) Date: Sat, 27 Mar 2004 17:35:07 -0600 Subject: [AccessD] Lookup Fields in Table Design - Coup de Grace In-Reply-To: <005101c4144e$d4b1c040$2a3ca8c0@TEXASSYSTEMS.COM> Message-ID: Also, just a thought here but if they had set this up using a defined query rather than a table then it shouldn't have been an issue either. If I did use the lookup property I would use defined queries as the row source not a table name. John -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Ken Ismert Sent: Saturday, March 27, 2004 4:57 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: [AccessD] Lookup Fields in Table Design - Coup de Grace A little scenario: At the international company you work for, you have been given two customer databases to work with. One is for your US data, the other from Mexico. Inspecting both, you can clearly see that, years ago, the Mexican db was adapted from the US original. In each db, you see two tables you're interested in, tblAddresses and tblStates. While the Mexican tblAddresses has been modified somewhat, tblStates has remained unchanged, with two fields, StateID and Name, both text. The US version of tblStates contains Alabama to Wyoming, while the Mexican one naturally contains Aguascalientes to Zacatecas, with their abbreviations in the StateID field. Critically, you also notice that table field lookups were also defined for the StateID field in each tblAddresses table. So, you build your frontend and link the US tables. You also link the Mexican tables, which show up as tblAddresses1 and tblStates1. Next, you open the linked tblAddresses (US version). The table lookups do their job, showing 'Alabama' for AL, etc. Happy, you open the linked tblAddresses1 (Mexican version) ... wait ... all hell has broken loose! Instead of the Mexican state names, you see only the StateID codes, along with some US State names ... what the!?!? After some digging, you find the problem: the table field lookup in the Mexican version of tblAddresses. While it works correctly in the backend, it fails in the frontend, because the lookup SQL in the linked tblAddresses1 now refers to the *linked* tblState, which holds the US data, not tblState1, which holds the correct Mexican data! This demonstrates that table field lookups, by themselves, can cause incorrect query results. But it gets worse. The original programmer that setup the databases didn't know too much about table design, and did not establish a relationship between tblAddresses and tblStates, only indexes. This means that you now have a situation where you can enter incorrect values into a table from the wrong lookup table! If you were under pressure, and didn't catch this error, and allowed data entry on a frontend with this problem, the results would be disastrous. What has been shown here, and validated in my testing, is that table field lookups can cause inaccurate results, and an insidious form of data corruption. It is important to emphasize that table field lookups are the single point of failure in this scenario. Removing them from the backend tables solves the problem, by making you match the correct main/lookup tables in a frontend query. If you had used any method other than table field lookups initially, you would have avoided this fiasco completely. By violating the principle of client/server separation, and embedding client-side UI elements in data tables, table field lookups are data land mines, just waiting to bite you at some later date. When you use them, you are embedding an implicit external context assumption into your table. In this case, the assumption was 'my external name will always be tblState'. Anytime this assumption is violated, table field lookups will fail. For this, and the other reasons that I have outlined, table field lookups are a BAD IDEA. Match point: Naysayers. Game: Naysayers. Hey, Susan ... your marshmallows have grown cold!. Pass 'em over here, I'm in the mood for s'mores! -Ken -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From mcaro at bigpond.net.au Sat Mar 27 17:46:53 2004 From: mcaro at bigpond.net.au (Martin Caro) Date: Sun, 28 Mar 2004 09:46:53 +1000 Subject: [AccessD] Closing Forms Message-ID: <001601c41455$c87234c0$0100000a@mirridong> At times I have 3 or 4 forms open at once and may want to return to the main menu form from any of those and at the same time closing all forms except the main menu form. Can anyone tell me why the following function after closing only one form via the Case else will not continue to work through the forms group and close multiple forms? Public Function CloseForms(FromForm As String) Dim frm As Form For Each frm In Forms Select Case frm.Name Case Is = "frmMainMenu" 'Dont close it Case Is = FromForm 'Dont close the form that called this yet Case Else 'Close any other form MsgBox ("The form being closed is " & frm.Name) DoCmd.close acForm, frm.Name, acSaveNo End Select Next frm End Function Martin From john at winhaven.net Sat Mar 27 17:49:00 2004 From: john at winhaven.net (John Bartow) Date: Sat, 27 Mar 2004 17:49:00 -0600 Subject: [AccessD] OT: Hard Drives, RAID, backup setup In-Reply-To: <004701c41447$6c50e190$bf00a8c0@dabsight> Message-ID: I always thought having two mirrored drives attached to one raid controller would have two data streams and hence the writing to the two drives would be simultaneous. This depicts one data stream that causes the writing to have a delay for the second drive. Is that accurate? John -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of DJK(John) Robinson Sent: Saturday, March 27, 2004 4:04 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: [AccessD] OT: Hard Drives, RAID, backup setup RAID - the movie; see http://www.acnc.com/04_01_00_flash.html Not quite as good/accurate/complete as it could be, though. John > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of > Gustav Brock > Sent: 27 March 2004 18:13 > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: Re: [AccessD] OT: Hard Drives, RAID, backup setup > > > Hi Drew > > > Haven't had my coffee yet, but I thought RAID 0 was a > mirror, and RAID > > 1 was a stripe. I'm a little groggy, so if you can't find it on > > google somewhere, and really want to know, I'll go look it up. > > Nope - you certainly miss both the coffee and the orange juice: > > http://www.arstechnica.com/paedia/r/raid-1.html > > http://www.arstechnica.com/paedia/r/raid-2.html > > Also, RAID 0-1 and 1-0: > > http://www.ofb.net/~jheiss/raid10/ > > /gustav > > > > Plain mirror is RAID 1, isn't it? > > > And you can always go to SATA these days, up to 8 drives on > a PCI card > > - given the right PCI interface - RAID 0, 1, 5, 10 or JBOD. > > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From djkr at msn.com Sat Mar 27 18:00:31 2004 From: djkr at msn.com (DJK(John) Robinson) Date: Sun, 28 Mar 2004 00:00:31 -0000 Subject: [AccessD] OT: Hard Drives, RAID, backup setup In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <004901c41457$af7f6ad0$bf00a8c0@dabsight> You're right, it's not accurate. Misleading graphic. John > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of John Bartow > Sent: 27 March 2004 23:49 > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: RE: [AccessD] OT: Hard Drives, RAID, backup setup > > > I always thought having two mirrored drives attached to one > raid controller would have two data streams and hence the > writing to the two drives would be simultaneous. This depicts > one data stream that causes the writing to have a delay for > the second drive. Is that accurate? > > John > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of > DJK(John) Robinson > Sent: Saturday, March 27, 2004 4:04 PM > To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' > Subject: RE: [AccessD] OT: Hard Drives, RAID, backup setup > > > RAID - the movie; see > http://www.acnc.com/04_01_00_flash.html > > Not quite as good/accurate/complete as it could be, though. > > John > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Gustav > > Brock > > Sent: 27 March 2004 18:13 > > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > > Subject: Re: [AccessD] OT: Hard Drives, RAID, backup setup > > > > > > Hi Drew > > > > > Haven't had my coffee yet, but I thought RAID 0 was a > > mirror, and RAID > > > 1 was a stripe. I'm a little groggy, so if you can't find it on > > > google somewhere, and really want to know, I'll go look it up. > > > > Nope - you certainly miss both the coffee and the orange juice: > > > > http://www.arstechnica.com/paedia/r/raid-1.html > > > > http://www.arstechnica.com/paedia/r/raid-2.html > > > > Also, RAID 0-1 and 1-0: > > > > http://www.ofb.net/~jheiss/raid10/ > > > > /gustav > > > > > > > Plain mirror is RAID 1, isn't it? > > > > > And you can always go to SATA these days, up to 8 drives on > > a PCI card > > > - given the right PCI interface - RAID 0, 1, 5, 10 or JBOD. > > > > -- > > _______________________________________________ > > AccessD mailing list > > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > From john at winhaven.net Sat Mar 27 21:15:56 2004 From: john at winhaven.net (John Bartow) Date: Sat, 27 Mar 2004 21:15:56 -0600 Subject: [AccessD] OT: Hard Drives, RAID, backup setup In-Reply-To: <004901c41457$af7f6ad0$bf00a8c0@dabsight> Message-ID: Thanks for the confirmation - it had me going for awhile! -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of DJK(John) Robinson Sent: Saturday, March 27, 2004 6:01 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: [AccessD] OT: Hard Drives, RAID, backup setup You're right, it's not accurate. Misleading graphic. John > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of John Bartow > Sent: 27 March 2004 23:49 > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: RE: [AccessD] OT: Hard Drives, RAID, backup setup > > > I always thought having two mirrored drives attached to one > raid controller would have two data streams and hence the > writing to the two drives would be simultaneous. This depicts > one data stream that causes the writing to have a delay for > the second drive. Is that accurate? > > John > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of > DJK(John) Robinson > Sent: Saturday, March 27, 2004 4:04 PM > To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' > Subject: RE: [AccessD] OT: Hard Drives, RAID, backup setup > > > RAID - the movie; see > http://www.acnc.com/04_01_00_flash.html > > Not quite as good/accurate/complete as it could be, though. > > John > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Gustav > > Brock > > Sent: 27 March 2004 18:13 > > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > > Subject: Re: [AccessD] OT: Hard Drives, RAID, backup setup > > > > > > Hi Drew > > > > > Haven't had my coffee yet, but I thought RAID 0 was a > > mirror, and RAID > > > 1 was a stripe. I'm a little groggy, so if you can't find it on > > > google somewhere, and really want to know, I'll go look it up. > > > > Nope - you certainly miss both the coffee and the orange juice: > > > > http://www.arstechnica.com/paedia/r/raid-1.html > > > > http://www.arstechnica.com/paedia/r/raid-2.html > > > > Also, RAID 0-1 and 1-0: > > > > http://www.ofb.net/~jheiss/raid10/ > > > > /gustav > > > > > > > Plain mirror is RAID 1, isn't it? > > > > > And you can always go to SATA these days, up to 8 drives on > > a PCI card > > > - given the right PCI interface - RAID 0, 1, 5, 10 or JBOD. > > > > -- > > _______________________________________________ > > AccessD mailing list > > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From bchacc at san.rr.com Sat Mar 27 22:20:23 2004 From: bchacc at san.rr.com (Rocky Smolin - Beach Access Software) Date: Sat, 27 Mar 2004 20:20:23 -0800 Subject: [AccessD] 1st Anglo-Australian DBA Conference References: Message-ID: <008d01c4147b$fd91a4d0$6601a8c0@HAL9002> Note the empty glasses and bottle, and the s.e. grins all around. Looks like a good meeting. Sorry I missed it. Rocky ----- Original Message ----- From: "Jim Lawrence (AccessD)" To: "Access Developers discussion and problem solving" Sent: Saturday, March 27, 2004 9:39 AM Subject: [AccessD] 1st Anglo-Australian DBA Conference > Hi All: > > The 1st Anglo-Australian DBA Conference was held a short while ago. It may > have been small but it is a start. www.databaseadvisors.com > > Jim > > > > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > From bchacc at san.rr.com Sat Mar 27 22:22:29 2004 From: bchacc at san.rr.com (Rocky Smolin - Beach Access Software) Date: Sat, 27 Mar 2004 20:22:29 -0800 Subject: [AccessD] 1st Anglo-Australian DBA Conference References: <8729197113.20040327190109@cactus.dk> <001f01c41432$150e5e40$6101a8c0@dejpolsys> Message-ID: <00a301c4147c$48917910$6601a8c0@HAL9002> SMOLIN! That's SMOLIN!! S as in Sam. M for Mary O-L-I-N!! SMOLIN!! Or join the D.A.M. (Mothers Against Dyslexia). Rocky Smolin As in Smolin ----- Original Message ----- From: "William Hindman" To: "Access Developers discussion and problem solving" Sent: Saturday, March 27, 2004 11:31 AM Subject: Re: [AccessD] 1st Anglo-Australian DBA Conference > ...btw, who the heck is the Rocky Somlin at www.databaseadvisors.com eh? > ...couldn't be a reference to the King of OT ...he'd have someone's head! :( > > William Hindman > ipsedixitism: something is true because I myself have said it is true ...the > philosophy of Noam Chomsky :) > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Gustav Brock" > To: "Access Developers discussion and problem solving" > > Sent: Saturday, March 27, 2004 1:01 PM > Subject: Re: [AccessD] 1st Anglo-Australian DBA Conference > > > > Hi Jim > > > > Small, you bet ... no announcement was made. > > 1st Secret DBA Conference? > > How do one know when the next will take place? > > (You guessed it: you won't!) > > > > Anyway, nice to see you abandoned the terrible Foster beer - probably > > (you can't tell from the picture) in favour of the high-quality > > domestic wine! > > > > /gustav > > > > > > > The 1st Anglo-Australian DBA Conference was held a short while ago. It > may > > > have been small but it is a start. www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > > Jim > > > > -- > > _______________________________________________ > > AccessD mailing list > > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > From wdhindman at bellsouth.net Sat Mar 27 23:03:54 2004 From: wdhindman at bellsouth.net (William Hindman) Date: Sun, 28 Mar 2004 00:03:54 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] 1st Anglo-Australian DBA Conference References: <8729197113.20040327190109@cactus.dk><001f01c41432$150e5e40$6101a8c0@dejpolsys> <00a301c4147c$48917910$6601a8c0@HAL9002> Message-ID: <000401c41482$11c73b30$6101a8c0@dejpolsys> ...hey Rocky ...tell it to the guy who posted your letter on dba! ...oh! ...that was you, eh ...are you a D.A.M. charter member? :) William Hindman ipsedixitism: something is true because I myself have said it is true ...the philosophy of Noam Chomsky :) ----- Original Message ----- From: "Rocky Smolin - Beach Access Software" To: "Access Developers discussion and problem solving" Sent: Saturday, March 27, 2004 11:22 PM Subject: Re: [AccessD] 1st Anglo-Australian DBA Conference > SMOLIN! That's SMOLIN!! > > S as in Sam. > > M for Mary > > O-L-I-N!! > > SMOLIN!! > > Or join the D.A.M. (Mothers Against Dyslexia). > > Rocky > > Smolin > > As in Smolin > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "William Hindman" > To: "Access Developers discussion and problem solving" > > Sent: Saturday, March 27, 2004 11:31 AM > Subject: Re: [AccessD] 1st Anglo-Australian DBA Conference > > > > ...btw, who the heck is the Rocky Somlin at www.databaseadvisors.com eh? > > ...couldn't be a reference to the King of OT ...he'd have someone's head! > :( > > > > William Hindman > > ipsedixitism: something is true because I myself have said it is true > ...the > > philosophy of Noam Chomsky :) > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: "Gustav Brock" > > To: "Access Developers discussion and problem solving" > > > > Sent: Saturday, March 27, 2004 1:01 PM > > Subject: Re: [AccessD] 1st Anglo-Australian DBA Conference > > > > > > > Hi Jim > > > > > > Small, you bet ... no announcement was made. > > > 1st Secret DBA Conference? > > > How do one know when the next will take place? > > > (You guessed it: you won't!) > > > > > > Anyway, nice to see you abandoned the terrible Foster beer - probably > > > (you can't tell from the picture) in favour of the high-quality > > > domestic wine! > > > > > > /gustav > > > > > > > > > > The 1st Anglo-Australian DBA Conference was held a short while ago. It > > may > > > > have been small but it is a start. www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > > > > Jim > > > > > > -- > > > _______________________________________________ > > > AccessD mailing list > > > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > > > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > > > > > > -- > > _______________________________________________ > > AccessD mailing list > > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > From bchacc at san.rr.com Sat Mar 27 23:25:04 2004 From: bchacc at san.rr.com (Rocky Smolin - Beach Access Software) Date: Sat, 27 Mar 2004 21:25:04 -0800 Subject: [AccessD] 1st Anglo-Australian DBA Conference References: <8729197113.20040327190109@cactus.dk> <001f01c41432$150e5e40$6101a8c0@dejpolsys> <00a301c4147c$48917910$6601a8c0@HAL9002> <000401c41482$11c73b30$6101a8c0@dejpolsys> Message-ID: <00e001c41485$06765240$6601a8c0@HAL9002> I make plenty mistrakes but I never misspell my own name. Roki ----- Original Message ----- From: "William Hindman" To: "Access Developers discussion and problem solving" Sent: Saturday, March 27, 2004 9:03 PM Subject: Re: [AccessD] 1st Anglo-Australian DBA Conference > ...hey Rocky ...tell it to the guy who posted your letter on dba! > ...oh! ...that was you, eh ...are you a D.A.M. charter member? :) > > William Hindman > ipsedixitism: something is true because I myself have said it is true ...the > philosophy of Noam Chomsky :) > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Rocky Smolin - Beach Access Software" > To: "Access Developers discussion and problem solving" > > Sent: Saturday, March 27, 2004 11:22 PM > Subject: Re: [AccessD] 1st Anglo-Australian DBA Conference > > > > SMOLIN! That's SMOLIN!! > > > > S as in Sam. > > > > M for Mary > > > > O-L-I-N!! > > > > SMOLIN!! > > > > Or join the D.A.M. (Mothers Against Dyslexia). > > > > Rocky > > > > Smolin > > > > As in Smolin > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: "William Hindman" > > To: "Access Developers discussion and problem solving" > > > > Sent: Saturday, March 27, 2004 11:31 AM > > Subject: Re: [AccessD] 1st Anglo-Australian DBA Conference > > > > > > > ...btw, who the heck is the Rocky Somlin at www.databaseadvisors.com eh? > > > ...couldn't be a reference to the King of OT ...he'd have someone's > head! > > :( > > > > > > William Hindman > > > ipsedixitism: something is true because I myself have said it is true > > ...the > > > philosophy of Noam Chomsky :) > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > From: "Gustav Brock" > > > To: "Access Developers discussion and problem solving" > > > > > > Sent: Saturday, March 27, 2004 1:01 PM > > > Subject: Re: [AccessD] 1st Anglo-Australian DBA Conference > > > > > > > > > > Hi Jim > > > > > > > > Small, you bet ... no announcement was made. > > > > 1st Secret DBA Conference? > > > > How do one know when the next will take place? > > > > (You guessed it: you won't!) > > > > > > > > Anyway, nice to see you abandoned the terrible Foster beer - probably > > > > (you can't tell from the picture) in favour of the high-quality > > > > domestic wine! > > > > > > > > /gustav > > > > > > > > > > > > > The 1st Anglo-Australian DBA Conference was held a short while ago. > It > > > may > > > > > have been small but it is a start. www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > > > > > > Jim > > > > > > > > -- > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > > AccessD mailing list > > > > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > > > > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > > > > > > > > > > -- > > > _______________________________________________ > > > AccessD mailing list > > > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > > > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > > > > -- > > _______________________________________________ > > AccessD mailing list > > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > From accessd at shaw.ca Sun Mar 28 00:25:13 2004 From: accessd at shaw.ca (Jim Lawrence (AccessD)) Date: Sat, 27 Mar 2004 22:25:13 -0800 Subject: [AccessD] 1st Anglo-Australian DBA Conference In-Reply-To: <70F3D727890C784291D8433E9C418F290886BA@server.bondsoftware.co.nz> Message-ID: Sorry Stephen: The conference was small and secret...There is a beetle on the top portion of page with some phrase like "1st Anglo-Australian DBA Conference" adjacent. If you are still having a problem I could sent a close up. :-) Jim -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Stephen Bond Sent: Saturday, March 27, 2004 1:52 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] 1st Anglo-Australian DBA Conference OK, I'll bite ... can't see it on www.databaseadvisors.com - when and where? Stephen Bond > -----Original Message----- > From: Jim Lawrence (AccessD) [mailto:accessd at shaw.ca] > Sent: Sunday, 28 March 2004 5:39 a.m. > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: [AccessD] 1st Anglo-Australian DBA Conference > > > Hi All: > > The 1st Anglo-Australian DBA Conference was held a short > while ago. It may > have been small but it is a start. www.databaseadvisors.com > > Jim > > > > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From accessd at shaw.ca Sun Mar 28 00:34:46 2004 From: accessd at shaw.ca (Jim Lawrence (AccessD)) Date: Sat, 27 Mar 2004 22:34:46 -0800 Subject: [AccessD] 1st Anglo-Australian DBA Conference In-Reply-To: <00a301c4147c$48917910$6601a8c0@HAL9002> Message-ID: Rocky: OK, I tried again this may be closer. Sorry about that but I knew what I meant... but one thumb was slightly faster. Jim PS You are back to being: SMOLIN! That's SMOLIN!! -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Rocky Smolin - Beach Access Software Sent: Saturday, March 27, 2004 8:22 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] 1st Anglo-Australian DBA Conference SMOLIN! That's SMOLIN!! S as in Sam. M for Mary O-L-I-N!! SMOLIN!! Or join the D.A.M. (Mothers Against Dyslexia). Rocky Smolin As in Smolin ----- Original Message ----- From: "William Hindman" To: "Access Developers discussion and problem solving" Sent: Saturday, March 27, 2004 11:31 AM Subject: Re: [AccessD] 1st Anglo-Australian DBA Conference > ...btw, who the heck is the Rocky Somlin at www.databaseadvisors.com eh? > ...couldn't be a reference to the King of OT ...he'd have someone's head! :( > > William Hindman > ipsedixitism: something is true because I myself have said it is true ...the > philosophy of Noam Chomsky :) > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Gustav Brock" > To: "Access Developers discussion and problem solving" > > Sent: Saturday, March 27, 2004 1:01 PM > Subject: Re: [AccessD] 1st Anglo-Australian DBA Conference > > > > Hi Jim > > > > Small, you bet ... no announcement was made. > > 1st Secret DBA Conference? > > How do one know when the next will take place? > > (You guessed it: you won't!) > > > > Anyway, nice to see you abandoned the terrible Foster beer - probably > > (you can't tell from the picture) in favour of the high-quality > > domestic wine! > > > > /gustav > > > > > > > The 1st Anglo-Australian DBA Conference was held a short while ago. It > may > > > have been small but it is a start. www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > > Jim > > > > -- > > _______________________________________________ > > AccessD mailing list > > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From gustav at cactus.dk Sun Mar 28 03:37:16 2004 From: gustav at cactus.dk (Gustav Brock) Date: Sun, 28 Mar 2004 11:37:16 +0200 Subject: [AccessD] Closing Forms In-Reply-To: <001601c41455$c87234c0$0100000a@mirridong> References: <001601c41455$c87234c0$0100000a@mirridong> Message-ID: <285107934.20040328113716@cactus.dk> Hi Martin > At times I have 3 or 4 forms open at once and may want to return to the main menu form from any of those and at the same time closing all forms except the main menu form. Can anyone tell me why the > following function after closing only one form via the Case else will not continue to work through the forms group and close multiple forms? > Public Function CloseForms(FromForm As String) > Dim frm As Form > For Each frm In Forms > Select Case frm.Name > Case Is = "frmMainMenu" > 'Dont close it > Case Is = FromForm > 'Dont close the form that called this yet > Case Else > 'Close any other form > MsgBox ("The form being closed is " & frm.Name) > DoCmd.close acForm, frm.Name, acSaveNo > End Select > Next frm > End Function You are probably destroying the collection Forms moving forwards. Most solutions to this task browse backwards through the collection like this: Public Function CloseForms(FromForm As String) Dim strForm As String Dim lngForm As Long For lngForm = Forms.Count - 1 To 0 Step -1 strForm = Forms(lngForm).Name Select Case strForm Case Is = "frmMainMenu" 'Dont close it Case Is = FromForm 'Dont close the form that called this yet Case Else 'Close any other form MsgBox ("The form being closed is " & strForm) DoCmd.close acForm, strForm, acSaveNo End Select Next End Function /gustav From DWUTKA at marlow.com Sun Mar 28 03:57:14 2004 From: DWUTKA at marlow.com (DWUTKA at marlow.com) Date: Sun, 28 Mar 2004 03:57:14 -0600 Subject: [AccessD] OT: Hard Drives, RAID, backup setup Message-ID: <2F8793082E00D4119A1700B0D0216BF8022279F0@main2.marlow.com> Okay, so I had them reversed! LOL. Drew -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Sent: 3/27/04 12:13 PM Subject: Re: [AccessD] OT: Hard Drives, RAID, backup setup Hi Drew > Haven't had my coffee yet, but I thought RAID 0 was a mirror, and RAID 1 was > a stripe. I'm a little groggy, so if you can't find it on google somewhere, > and really want to know, I'll go look it up. Nope - you certainly miss both the coffee and the orange juice: http://www.arstechnica.com/paedia/r/raid-1.html http://www.arstechnica.com/paedia/r/raid-2.html Also, RAID 0-1 and 1-0: http://www.ofb.net/~jheiss/raid10/ /gustav > Plain mirror is RAID 1, isn't it? > And you can always go to SATA these days, up to 8 drives on a PCI card - > given the right PCI interface - RAID 0, 1, 5, 10 or JBOD. -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From DWUTKA at marlow.com Sun Mar 28 04:00:23 2004 From: DWUTKA at marlow.com (DWUTKA at marlow.com) Date: Sun, 28 Mar 2004 04:00:23 -0600 Subject: [AccessD] Lookup Fields in Table Design Message-ID: <2F8793082E00D4119A1700B0D0216BF8022279F1@main2.marlow.com> Well it's hard to argue with that. But then again, how many database systems (which you pay for), hand out their actual inner workings? Technically speaking, you can get to your data without JET, it's just not as well organized as it is WITH JET. Drew -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Sent: 3/27/04 3:16 PM Subject: RE: [AccessD] Lookup Fields in Table Design Yes, so I will now change: "Data goes into black box - gets corrupted - data doesn't come out of black box." To: "Data goes into gray box - gets corrupted - data doesn't come out of gray box." ;o) It did help though explain the issue sayers regain +.5 Score: nay-sayers 4 / sayers 8 John -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of DWUTKA at marlow.com Sent: Friday, March 26, 2004 1:28 PM To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: RE: [AccessD] Lookup Fields in Table Design I'm shocked. I used Dev's site quite a bit, when I started out with Access. I really admire a lot of what he has done. However, I think a lot of what he has about Lookup Fields on there are wrong. I just changed my test, from a simple State lookup, to a StateID --> StateName setup. Added an ID (autonumber) field to tblStates, and then updated the data in my 'main' table to have the ID's, instead of the abbreviation. Then I switched it to a number field. I then copied the database again, and switched the copy to be a lookup field for the StateID. Compacted both (a little over 200,000 records in both), and NO difference in size. Without indexing... querying is the same speed, with indexing, the querying is still the same speed. However, I now noticed a difference in size, with a lookup field, when the field is indexed. That is definitely interesting. However, that goes away, if you use a callback function. VERY interesting. Have to give them half a point back, because there is a small amount of 'bloat', if you use a query/table for the lookup. But it's negligible, and also, both databases grow when you index the field, just grows a bit more. I would never really call that 'bloat'. Not trying to back track, but to me, bloat is when a database grows in size over time, but when compacted, it gets smaller. The portion that is 'reduced' is bloat. The portion left after the compact is 'overhead'. That's my definition. Admittedly, if you are going to run close to max db size, then lookups should be removed, to get that much more space. But we are talking overhead space, not really 'bloat'. As far as the compacting issue, that's another story. Microsoft has several good reasons for not releasing the inner workings of JET. First of all, there is the licensing issue. If you developed a software package you wanted people to buy, would you give anyone the source? Of course not. If MS gave out the inner workings of JET, it wouldn't be long until Access was unnecessary, because people would just roll their own JET engine. Another reason is support. Jet does a lot of stuff, so even if they did hand out the detailed specs, one little slip, and even a good developer could seriously fry an .mdb. There is nothing mysterious about corruption. It's usually easy to explain, and in most cases is fixable. What you must remember, is that file corruption is NOT limited to .mdb's. It can happen in any type of file. The difference between Access and other file types, however, is what makes it seem like more of an issue. A few years ago, our network was in a serious state of disrepair. We had file corruptions all over the place. That included Word and Excel files, and definitely included .mdb's. A file is nothing more then a series of bytes. With a bad network, flaky hard drive, corrupted OS, (and a million other reasons), it certainly is not impossible to goof a few bytes here and there. Now, depending on what kind of file it is, and what that file does, is going to determine how the corruption affects things. Take, for example, an .exe or .dll. Those files contain CPU instructions. Have you ever had a program start crashing on you? After an Uninstall and reinstall, everything is working again. A lot of times that is due to a file corruption. One corrupted (changed) byte in a .dll or .exe, and you are now changing how the CPU deals with that code. All sorts of things can happen. However, in something like and HTML file, HTML is designed to ignore what it doesn't understand, so it's nearly impossible to have normal file corruption do any real 'damage' to an HMTL file. The more common issues with Word and Excel are the 'locking' files. Something will goof in them, and then that file is locked out. Since Word/Excel is saving changes in those temp files, actual corruption in the original document is more rare (but not unheard of...excel and word have to update the original document when you save it, so that is when corruption can occur there). With an .mdb file, JET is monitoring who has what locked, is reading/updating indexes, reading/updating data, etc. A lot of activity in one file. The .ldb file is only storing who's logged in (and it is also used for locks within the .mdb, but other then the who's logged in, no other data is being changed in the .ldb, only locking bytes). Get a goofed byte in the mix, and things can either continue, go seriously awry, or somewhere in between. just depends what was affected. A lot of time, the corruption is simply someone's machine not 'closing' out of the database correctly. That is easily repaired. But if bytes are corrupted in the indexes, the table definitions, or in the code, that is something the system doesn't know how to 'replace', because it doesn't have a 'template' or 'starting point' to replace it with. As far as I know, the ONLY design issue KNOWN to corrupt a database, happens to lie with a problem between JET and Foxpro. Something about the differences between how JET deals with Memo fields, and Foxpro deals with them. Access does NOT corrupt .mdb's, it is an outside influence that does that. That is a VERY important concept to remember. Because of that, there are NO features within Access that will corrupt a database. (Yes, a feature could be programmed wrong, but Microsoft would eventually fix that with a service pack, because a self corrupting database system won't sell....). Recovering from a corruption all depends on where the corruption actually lies, which is not entirely blind luck. Since most corruption issues are only put into affect when a database is being read/locked/written, what you are reading/writing is usually going to be the place where the corruption lies. So it could be data within a table, table defs, indexes, code, etc. Practically everything used within a database. So not only are all database features designed to NOT corrupt the database, but they are also all prone to fail, if file corruption does occur. On top of that, all features have their own quirks as to the difficulties of recovering. Corruption in the data isn't too bad, since you'll just get a bad record or two. Corruption in code is more difficult, because it will probably lock up quite a bit of the code, but that can be returned. Corruption within a tabledef, or index can affect whether the data is easily retrievable, since JET uses them when retrieving it. Hope that clears up some of the mystery for you. Drew -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of John Bartow Sent: Friday, March 26, 2004 10:39 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] Lookup Fields in Table Design Hi Drew, Don't misunderstand me, your points are well taken, and you have my utmost respect as a developer/programmer. Corruption is just a hot spot on my psyche. If I knew HOW it was caused it would be different and that's the issue - apparently no one (including M$) does or they would prevent it. Even when considering that M$ allows some things to happen/not happen as a bone thrown to its third party developers, no one has a corruption fixing utility that works and is making money off of. "Data goes into black box - gets corrupted - data doesn't come out of black box." That's actually my biggest concern with Access. The absolute (publicly) undocumented proprietary nature of it. Sometimes I think the (publicly) can be left out of the statement. I'm actually quite surprised by the results of this little debate. Ken, Charlotte, Dev, Lebans and others all warn against it. I think the question I posed here to Susan concerning lookups originally came to mind about 5 years ago when I saw it on Dev's website under the "ten rules". I don't follow "rules" - when I see the word "rule" my mind automatically translates it to "strong guideline", but it made me curious. Like I said I don't generally use lookups, I have, and I will if the situation calls for them again. -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of DWUTKA at marlow.com Sent: Friday, March 26, 2004 1:17 AM To: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com; accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: RE: [AccessD] Lookup Fields in Table Design John, the points are cute, but the problem is that Lookup fields do NOT cause corruption. He said they made it more difficult to fix. There are a TON of things (that everyone uses) that make repairing corruption more difficult. Essentially, if you make a blank database, and put it on CD, you stand the best chances of recovering that database when it's completely blank, and never used. Once you start adding data, code, objecs, etc, you are adding things which can complicate a recovery. So it's a no pointer / moot point, to say that lookup's made a particular recovery difficult. If there had been a bit of error handling code, which got in the way of recovering a database, would you say 'I'll never use Error Handling code, because it made my life difficult once'? I didn't think so. Drew -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From DWUTKA at marlow.com Sun Mar 28 04:04:48 2004 From: DWUTKA at marlow.com (DWUTKA at marlow.com) Date: Sun, 28 Mar 2004 04:04:48 -0600 Subject: [AccessD] Lookup Fields in Table Design Message-ID: <2F8793082E00D4119A1700B0D0216BF8022279F3@main2.marlow.com> I'd leave Floridians out of it. We all know how well they can handle a voting system. Good thing they aren't keeping score for us! LOL Drew -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Sent: 3/27/04 3:53 PM Subject: RE: [AccessD] Lookup Fields in Table Design -5 points to everyone in Florida! ;o) -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of William Hindman Sent: Saturday, March 27, 2004 12:45 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Lookup Fields in Table Design ...at long, long, long, long last!!!! ...a post in this endless, angels on a pinhead, thread that actually would produce a positive result in my workday world :))))))))) ...thank god that Fridays usually kill the unkillable threads of the past week :((( William Hindman ipsedixitism: something is true because I myself have said it is true ...the philosophy of Noam Chomsky :) ----- Original Message ----- From: "John W. Colby" To: "Access Developers discussion and problem solving" Sent: Friday, March 26, 2004 10:53 PM Subject: RE: [AccessD] Lookup Fields in Table Design > The real answer to this is to just shoot all users. Problem solved! > > John W. Colby > www.ColbyConsulting.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From DWUTKA at marlow.com Sun Mar 28 04:05:58 2004 From: DWUTKA at marlow.com (DWUTKA at marlow.com) Date: Sun, 28 Mar 2004 04:05:58 -0600 Subject: [AccessD] Lookup Fields in Table Design Message-ID: <2F8793082E00D4119A1700B0D0216BF8022279F4@main2.marlow.com> I'll take the hit, but I'm curious, how would you paraphrase what Ken is saying? Drew -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Sent: 3/27/04 3:53 PM Subject: RE: [AccessD] Lookup Fields in Table Design unnecessarily derogatory remark -.5 sayers Score: nay-sayers 4 / sayers 7.5 -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of DWUTKA at marlow.com Sent: Saturday, March 27, 2004 11:59 AM To: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com; accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: RE: [AccessD] Lookup Fields in Table Design Thank you! I was beginning to think that I was talking to a wall there. Everything I have tested shows that the DefaultControl property does absolutely nothing to how JET retrieves data, and only slightly affects how JET stores data (because it does setup a relationship, if you have an ID field with a lookup of a related table. But it's no more 'work' then if you just set the relationship up in the database, in the first place. All I'm getting from Ken is, 'It's just not standard practice, so it must be bad'. Ugh. Drew -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Sent: 3/26/04 8:26 PM Subject: RE: [AccessD] Lookup Fields in Table Design On 26 Mar 2004 at 19:35, Ken Ismert wrote: > > >It doesn't affect that, BECAUSE it's a property that is only > >looked at by the Wizards, NOT by Jet, when retrieving the data. > > Its used in queries too. Queries inherit this stuff from the table they are > based on. > Queries don't use it. The object which Access uses to display the results of queries does. If I pull a "Select * from tblMyTable", my recordset doesn't know anything about the combobox bound to fldMyLookup - or about any table used for the lookup on that field. If however, I use the Query Datasheet to display it, the datasheet will look at the table definition to determine how it is displayed by default (which can be overwritten by defining a different display format in the query grid itself). In essence, the lookup property(ies) of a field in a table are no different to the Format, and Caption properties. They are used to define the *default* way that the data in the table is displayed in the GUI. You can overwrite this default in any query grid, form control, report control that you create. It has nothing to do with how a recordset is actually retreived by Jet. -- Lexacorp Ltd http://www.lexacorp.com.pg Information Technology Consultancy, Software Development,System Support. -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From DWUTKA at marlow.com Sun Mar 28 04:07:02 2004 From: DWUTKA at marlow.com (DWUTKA at marlow.com) Date: Sun, 28 Mar 2004 04:07:02 -0600 Subject: [AccessD] Lookup Fields in Table Design Message-ID: <2F8793082E00D4119A1700B0D0216BF8022279F5@main2.marlow.com> Just a side note, if anyone does use that code, it is going to set your Yes/No fields to a textbox too, so I would check for that in the code, unless you want them that way. Realized that after I posted it. I did say it was nitty gritty. Drew -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Sent: 3/27/04 3:53 PM Subject: RE: [AccessD] Lookup Fields in Table Design Oh, well see it was simple ;o) Score Stands at: nay-sayers 4 / sayers 8 -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of DWUTKA at marlow.com Sent: Friday, March 26, 2004 3:22 PM To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: RE: [AccessD] Lookup Fields in Table Design It's nitty gritty, but it does the job: On Error Resume Next Dim db As Database Dim tblTemp As TableDef Dim fld As Field Set db = CurrentDb For Each tblTemp In db.TableDefs For Each fld In tblTemp.Fields If fld.Properties("DisplayControl") <> 109 Then If Err = 0 Then fld.Properties("DisplayControl").Value = 109 Else Err.Clear End If End If Next Next Set db = Nothing Drew -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Ken Ismert Sent: Friday, March 26, 2004 2:33 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: [AccessD] Lookup Fields in Table Design McCool. If you have code that does that, I'd love to see it. -Ken -----Original Message----- From: John Bartow [mailto:john at winhaven.net] Sent: Friday, March 26, 2004 12:00 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] Lookup Fields in Table Design Here's a stretch but... For people that like to use the added form designing capabilites of the lookup property, once the table design and realtionships are complete you could set the desired lookup properties. Design all of the forms for the application. When the application design is complete you could run code that iterates the table collection and eliminates all lookup properties in the table design. This in essence would eliminate the corruption and performance issues. Eh? -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Charlotte Foust Sent: Friday, March 26, 2004 11:39 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] Lookup Fields in Table Design There is also the issue of TableID limits, which I believe include all the tables involved as lookups. Charlotte Foust -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From DWUTKA at marlow.com Sun Mar 28 04:22:40 2004 From: DWUTKA at marlow.com (DWUTKA at marlow.com) Date: Sun, 28 Mar 2004 04:22:40 -0600 Subject: [AccessD] Lookup Fields in Table Design - Coup de Grace Message-ID: <2F8793082E00D4119A1700B0D0216BF8022279F6@main2.marlow.com> First, don't point yourself. John seems to be doing a fine job there, and seems to be relatively impartial. Next, this is going to be hard to reply to, without being derogatory. So take this with a grain of salt. First, you are talking about a database system written for the US. Someone takes that db, and modifies it for another country. Then, you want to merge the two systems. Now, if the ONLY problem you have are lookup fields, I would say you can just count your blessings. The entire point of this conversation is to determine if there is anything actually wrong with Lookup fields. That doesn't mean that something can't go wrong, but whether there is an inherent flaw in their abilities to perform their actual purpose. You can take practically any feature of practically any software package, and turn it into a flaw, if used outside of the scope of it's original design. You started out with 'it's a performance hit' and 'It takes up extra space'. I then showed that it wasn't a performance hit, and it didn't take up any extra space (if it's indexed, and a relation, you get the same space used whether you use a lookup field or not). You did mention that it is confusing, but my point (and other 'Sayers') is that you can't label it wrong to use if some users are confused. Once again, I am not arguing your preference. I am REALLY not arguing that you should use them. What I am trying to get at, is that we, as a development group, shouldn't label something as 'bad practice', if the only problem involved is just knowledge of how something works. I write a lot of code, and I can't tell you how many things I have coded, which involved code that would wreak total havoc, if it isn't done right. Take for example, subclassing forms. In Access it's bad enough that Access forms are already subclassed, but in VB, you will shoot yourself in the foot, if you run subclassed forms in debug mode, and DON'T un-subclass them before you stop your code. However, I wouldn't say that subclassing a form is bad practice, it's just something you have to use with caution. More importantly, it's something you have to use with an intimate knowledge of it. That actually applies to practically anything. One of my favorite quotes is: 'He who learns, but does not think is lost. He who thinks, but does not learn is in grave danger.' If you apply that to developing a database, if you read a help book, and follow it step by step, you're not really thinking about what you are using, and therefore, you're going to end up lost when it comes time to figuring out what is wrong. At the same time, if you think about what you are doing, but don't learn from the results, then you're REALLY going to shoot yourself in the foot. Drew -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Sent: 3/27/04 4:57 PM Subject: RE: [AccessD] Lookup Fields in Table Design - Coup de Grace A little scenario: At the international company you work for, you have been given two customer databases to work with. One is for your US data, the other from Mexico. Inspecting both, you can clearly see that, years ago, the Mexican db was adapted from the US original. In each db, you see two tables you're interested in, tblAddresses and tblStates. While the Mexican tblAddresses has been modified somewhat, tblStates has remained unchanged, with two fields, StateID and Name, both text. The US version of tblStates contains Alabama to Wyoming, while the Mexican one naturally contains Aguascalientes to Zacatecas, with their abbreviations in the StateID field. Critically, you also notice that table field lookups were also defined for the StateID field in each tblAddresses table. So, you build your frontend and link the US tables. You also link the Mexican tables, which show up as tblAddresses1 and tblStates1. Next, you open the linked tblAddresses (US version). The table lookups do their job, showing 'Alabama' for AL, etc. Happy, you open the linked tblAddresses1 (Mexican version) ... wait ... all hell has broken loose! Instead of the Mexican state names, you see only the StateID codes, along with some US State names ... what the!?!? After some digging, you find the problem: the table field lookup in the Mexican version of tblAddresses. While it works correctly in the backend, it fails in the frontend, because the lookup SQL in the linked tblAddresses1 now refers to the *linked* tblState, which holds the US data, not tblState1, which holds the correct Mexican data! This demonstrates that table field lookups, by themselves, can cause incorrect query results. But it gets worse. The original programmer that setup the databases didn't know too much about table design, and did not establish a relationship between tblAddresses and tblStates, only indexes. This means that you now have a situation where you can enter incorrect values into a table from the wrong lookup table! If you were under pressure, and didn't catch this error, and allowed data entry on a frontend with this problem, the results would be disastrous. What has been shown here, and validated in my testing, is that table field lookups can cause inaccurate results, and an insidious form of data corruption. It is important to emphasize that table field lookups are the single point of failure in this scenario. Removing them from the backend tables solves the problem, by making you match the correct main/lookup tables in a frontend query. If you had used any method other than table field lookups initially, you would have avoided this fiasco completely. By violating the principle of client/server separation, and embedding client-side UI elements in data tables, table field lookups are data land mines, just waiting to bite you at some later date. When you use them, you are embedding an implicit external context assumption into your table. In this case, the assumption was 'my external name will always be tblState'. Anytime this assumption is violated, table field lookups will fail. For this, and the other reasons that I have outlined, table field lookups are a BAD IDEA. Match point: Naysayers. Game: Naysayers. Hey, Susan ... your marshmallows have grown cold!. Pass 'em over here, I'm in the mood for s'mores! -Ken -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From mcaro at bigpond.net.au Sun Mar 28 05:05:37 2004 From: mcaro at bigpond.net.au (Martin Caro) Date: Sun, 28 Mar 2004 21:05:37 +1000 Subject: [AccessD] Closing Forms References: <001601c41455$c87234c0$0100000a@mirridong> <285107934.20040328113716@cactus.dk> Message-ID: <001201c414b4$99927e80$0100000a@mirridong> Thanks Gustav That did the trick....another technique learnt! Martin ----- Original Message ----- From: "Gustav Brock" To: "Access Developers discussion and problem solving" Sent: Sunday, March 28, 2004 7:37 PM Subject: Re: [AccessD] Closing Forms > Hi Martin > > > At times I have 3 or 4 forms open at once and may want to return to the main menu form from any of those and at the same time closing all forms except the main menu form. Can anyone tell me why the > > following function after closing only one form via the Case else will not continue to work through the forms group and close multiple forms? > > > Public Function CloseForms(FromForm As String) > > Dim frm As Form > > For Each frm In Forms > > Select Case frm.Name > > Case Is = "frmMainMenu" > > 'Dont close it > > Case Is = FromForm > > 'Dont close the form that called this yet > > Case Else > > 'Close any other form > > MsgBox ("The form being closed is " & frm.Name) > > DoCmd.close acForm, frm.Name, acSaveNo > > End Select > > Next frm > > End Function > > You are probably destroying the collection Forms moving forwards. > Most solutions to this task browse backwards through the collection > like this: > > > > Public Function CloseForms(FromForm As String) > > Dim strForm As String > Dim lngForm As Long > > For lngForm = Forms.Count - 1 To 0 Step -1 > strForm = Forms(lngForm).Name > Select Case strForm > Case Is = "frmMainMenu" > 'Dont close it > Case Is = FromForm > 'Dont close the form that called this yet > Case Else > 'Close any other form > MsgBox ("The form being closed is " & strForm) > DoCmd.close acForm, strForm, acSaveNo > End Select > Next > > End Function > > > > /gustav > > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From andy at minstersystems.co.uk Sun Mar 28 05:12:52 2004 From: andy at minstersystems.co.uk (Andy Lacey) Date: Sun, 28 Mar 2004 12:12:52 +0100 Subject: [AccessD] Lookup Fields in Table Design In-Reply-To: <2F8793082E00D4119A1700B0D0216BF8022279F3@main2.marlow.com> Message-ID: <001801c414b5$9cc30880$b274d0d5@minster33c3r25> Is it just me, or is this thread consuming enormous amounts of bandwidth to little purpose? Is there ANY chance it might stop one day? Could you not call it a draw - and accept that, like so much else in Access/life, some people like it and some don't? Each side has made their points (over and over) and anyone thinking of using Lookups can now read what's been read, and caveat user. -- Andy Lacey http://www.minstersystems.co.uk > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of > DWUTKA at marlow.com > Sent: 28 March 2004 11:05 > To: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com; accessd at databaseadvisors.com > Subject: RE: [AccessD] Lookup Fields in Table Design > > > I'd leave Floridians out of it. We all know how well they > can handle a voting system. > > Good thing they aren't keeping score for us! LOL > > Drew > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Sent: 3/27/04 3:53 PM > Subject: RE: [AccessD] Lookup Fields in Table Design > > -5 points to everyone in Florida! > > ;o) > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of > William Hindman > Sent: Saturday, March 27, 2004 12:45 AM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: Re: [AccessD] Lookup Fields in Table Design > > > ...at long, long, long, long last!!!! > > ...a post in this endless, angels on a pinhead, thread that > actually would produce a positive result in my workday world > :))))))))) > > ...thank god that Fridays usually kill the unkillable threads > of the past week :((( > > William Hindman > ipsedixitism: something is true because I myself have said it > is true ...the philosophy of Noam Chomsky :) > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "John W. Colby" > To: "Access Developers discussion and problem solving" > > Sent: Friday, March 26, 2004 10:53 PM > Subject: RE: [AccessD] Lookup Fields in Table Design > > > > The real answer to this is to just shoot all users. Problem solved! > > > > John W. Colby > > www.ColbyConsulting.com > > > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/a> ccessd > Website: > http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > -- > > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/a> ccessd > Website: > http://www.databaseadvisors.com > -- > > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/a> ccessd > Website: > http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > From andy at minstersystems.co.uk Sun Mar 28 06:27:41 2004 From: andy at minstersystems.co.uk (Andy Lacey) Date: Sun, 28 Mar 2004 13:27:41 +0100 Subject: [AccessD] 1st Anglo-Australian DBA Conference In-Reply-To: <8729197113.20040327190109@cactus.dk> Message-ID: <001901c414c0$10b8cf40$b274d0d5@minster33c3r25> Yea, sorry about that but arrangements were a little hurried, i.e. made in principle the morning before and in detail about 1 minute before stepping inside the place. -- Andy Lacey http://www.minstersystems.co.uk > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of > Gustav Brock > Sent: 27 March 2004 18:01 > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: Re: [AccessD] 1st Anglo-Australian DBA Conference > > > Hi Jim > > Small, you bet ... no announcement was made. > 1st Secret DBA Conference? > How do one know when the next will take place? > (You guessed it: you won't!) > > Anyway, nice to see you abandoned the terrible Foster beer - > probably (you can't tell from the picture) in favour of the > high-quality domestic wine! > > /gustav > > > > The 1st Anglo-Australian DBA Conference was held a short > while ago. It > > may have been small but it is a start. www.databaseadvisors.com > > > Jim > > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/a> ccessd > Website: > http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > From wdhindman at bellsouth.net Sun Mar 28 07:14:36 2004 From: wdhindman at bellsouth.net (William Hindman) Date: Sun, 28 Mar 2004 08:14:36 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Lookup Fields in Table Design References: <001801c414b5$9cc30880$b274d0d5@minster33c3r25> Message-ID: <001301c414c6$9e993f60$6101a8c0@dejpolsys> ...ah ...welcome to Florida Andy ...we may not be able to count votes but, just like the butterfly ballot, we sure as hell know when something has been beat to death a hundred times over! :)))))) William Hindman ipsedixitism: something is true because I myself have said it is true ...the philosophy of Noam Chomsky :) ----- Original Message ----- From: "Andy Lacey" To: "'Access Developers discussion and problem solving'" Sent: Sunday, March 28, 2004 6:12 AM Subject: RE: [AccessD] Lookup Fields in Table Design > Is it just me, or is this thread consuming enormous amounts of bandwidth to > little purpose? Is there ANY chance it might stop one day? Could you not > call it a draw - and accept that, like so much else in Access/life, some > people like it and some don't? Each side has made their points (over and > over) and anyone thinking of using Lookups can now read what's been read, > and caveat user. > > -- Andy Lacey > http://www.minstersystems.co.uk > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of > > DWUTKA at marlow.com > > Sent: 28 March 2004 11:05 > > To: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com; accessd at databaseadvisors.com > > Subject: RE: [AccessD] Lookup Fields in Table Design > > > > > > I'd leave Floridians out of it. We all know how well they > > can handle a voting system. > > > > Good thing they aren't keeping score for us! LOL > > > > Drew > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > > Sent: 3/27/04 3:53 PM > > Subject: RE: [AccessD] Lookup Fields in Table Design > > > > -5 points to everyone in Florida! > > > > ;o) > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of > > William Hindman > > Sent: Saturday, March 27, 2004 12:45 AM > > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > > Subject: Re: [AccessD] Lookup Fields in Table Design > > > > > > ...at long, long, long, long last!!!! > > > > ...a post in this endless, angels on a pinhead, thread that > > actually would produce a positive result in my workday world > > :))))))))) > > > > ...thank god that Fridays usually kill the unkillable threads > > of the past week :((( > > > > William Hindman > > ipsedixitism: something is true because I myself have said it > > is true ...the philosophy of Noam Chomsky :) > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: "John W. Colby" > > To: "Access Developers discussion and problem solving" > > > > Sent: Friday, March 26, 2004 10:53 PM > > Subject: RE: [AccessD] Lookup Fields in Table Design > > > > > > > The real answer to this is to just shoot all users. Problem solved! > > > > > > John W. Colby > > > www.ColbyConsulting.com > > > > > > -- > > _______________________________________________ > > AccessD mailing list > > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/a> ccessd > > Website: > > http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > > > > > -- > > > > _______________________________________________ > > AccessD mailing list > > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/a> ccessd > > Website: > > http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > -- > > > > _______________________________________________ > > AccessD mailing list > > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/a> ccessd > > Website: > > http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > > > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > From pedro at plex.nl Sun Mar 28 09:43:22 2004 From: pedro at plex.nl (Pedro Janssen) Date: Sun, 28 Mar 2004 17:43:22 +0200 Subject: [AccessD] error in report Message-ID: <000801c414db$8d42b8d0$f2c581d5@pedro> Hello group, i use an unbound textbox to calculate the total of a number field in a report. I used: =Nz(sum([Name of field])) or =sum([Name of field]). When i open the preview i get #error. What is wrong. Pedro Janssen From andy at minstersystems.co.uk Sun Mar 28 09:57:29 2004 From: andy at minstersystems.co.uk (Andy Lacey) Date: Sun, 28 Mar 2004 16:57:29 +0100 Subject: [AccessD] error in report In-Reply-To: <000801c414db$8d42b8d0$f2c581d5@pedro> Message-ID: <002001c414dd$5f501bf0$b274d0d5@minster33c3r25> Pedro Are you sure you're referring to the column returned by the report's source query, not the name of a field on the report? -- Andy Lacey http://www.minstersystems.co.uk > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of > Pedro Janssen > Sent: 28 March 2004 16:43 > To: AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > Subject: [AccessD] error in report > > > Hello group, > > i use an unbound textbox to calculate the total of a number > field in a report. I used: =Nz(sum([Name of field])) or > =sum([Name of field]). > When i open the preview i get #error. What is wrong. > > > Pedro Janssen > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/a> ccessd > Website: > http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > From carbonnb at sympatico.ca Sun Mar 28 11:16:16 2004 From: carbonnb at sympatico.ca (Bryan Carbonnell) Date: Sun, 28 Mar 2004 12:16:16 -0500 Subject: Spelling was RE: [AccessD] Lookup Fields in Table Design In-Reply-To: References: <20040327221629.IMIZ1781.imf18aec.mail.bellsouth.net@SUSANONE> Message-ID: <4066C210.25980.336063@localhost> On 27 Mar 2004 at 16:47, John Bartow wrote: > E-gads! I wrote "behaviour" and the spell check caught it. I catch > myself writing "grey" and "colour" a lot too. I'm melting... What's wrong with those spellings? Nothing wrong with them from where I'm sitting. :) -- Bryan Carbonnell - carbonnb at sympatico.ca You can go anywhere you want if you look serious and carry a clipboard. From john at winhaven.net Sun Mar 28 12:53:22 2004 From: john at winhaven.net (John Bartow) Date: Sun, 28 Mar 2004 12:53:22 -0600 Subject: [AccessD] Lookup Fields in Table Design In-Reply-To: <2F8793082E00D4119A1700B0D0216BF8022279F4@main2.marlow.com> Message-ID: I wouldn't. I'd ask him to clarify what he is saying based on the latest discussion items. :o) -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of DWUTKA at marlow.com Sent: Sunday, March 28, 2004 4:06 AM To: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com; accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: RE: [AccessD] Lookup Fields in Table Design I'll take the hit, but I'm curious, how would you paraphrase what Ken is saying? Drew From ssharkins at bellsouth.net Sun Mar 28 12:58:00 2004 From: ssharkins at bellsouth.net (Susan Harkins) Date: Sun, 28 Mar 2004 13:58:00 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Lookup Fields in Table Design In-Reply-To: <001301c414c6$9e993f60$6101a8c0@dejpolsys> Message-ID: <20040328185759.QYGS1781.imf18aec.mail.bellsouth.net@SUSANONE> Why do men get so grouchy in their old age? Andy and William -- if you don't want to read the thread, can you not ignore it? Are you trying to tell us that because you find no value in the discussion, that the discussion is therefore valueless? I'm sure that's not really what you mean to say. Ignore the discussion if you're not getting anything out of it. We all ignore threads all the time. Let them hash it out. I'm pretty much done with the thread myself, but this is the one thing that some of you do that really annoys me. Leave the thread be. If it's gets off topic, then kill it. FWIW, you probably have pretty much killed it with your caustic remarks -- I wish you guys wouldn't do that. It intimidates people. Susan H. ...ah ...welcome to Florida Andy ...we may not be able to count votes but, just like the butterfly ballot, we sure as hell know when something has been beat to death a hundred times over! :)))))) From john at winhaven.net Sun Mar 28 13:02:36 2004 From: john at winhaven.net (John Bartow) Date: Sun, 28 Mar 2004 13:02:36 -0600 Subject: [AccessD] Lookup Fields in Table Design In-Reply-To: <2F8793082E00D4119A1700B0D0216BF8022279F1@main2.marlow.com> Message-ID: True. -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of DWUTKA at marlow.com Sent: Sunday, March 28, 2004 4:00 AM To: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com; accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: RE: [AccessD] Lookup Fields in Table Design Well it's hard to argue with that. But then again, how many database systems (which you pay for), hand out their actual inner workings? Technically speaking, you can get to your data without JET, it's just not as well organized as it is WITH JET. Drew -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Sent: 3/27/04 3:16 PM Subject: RE: [AccessD] Lookup Fields in Table Design Yes, so I will now change: "Data goes into black box - gets corrupted - data doesn't come out of black box." To: "Data goes into gray box - gets corrupted - data doesn't come out of gray box." ;o) It did help though explain the issue sayers regain +.5 Score: nay-sayers 4 / sayers 8 John -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of DWUTKA at marlow.com Sent: Friday, March 26, 2004 1:28 PM To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: RE: [AccessD] Lookup Fields in Table Design I'm shocked. I used Dev's site quite a bit, when I started out with Access. I really admire a lot of what he has done. However, I think a lot of what he has about Lookup Fields on there are wrong. I just changed my test, from a simple State lookup, to a StateID --> StateName setup. Added an ID (autonumber) field to tblStates, and then updated the data in my 'main' table to have the ID's, instead of the abbreviation. Then I switched it to a number field. I then copied the database again, and switched the copy to be a lookup field for the StateID. Compacted both (a little over 200,000 records in both), and NO difference in size. Without indexing... querying is the same speed, with indexing, the querying is still the same speed. However, I now noticed a difference in size, with a lookup field, when the field is indexed. That is definitely interesting. However, that goes away, if you use a callback function. VERY interesting. Have to give them half a point back, because there is a small amount of 'bloat', if you use a query/table for the lookup. But it's negligible, and also, both databases grow when you index the field, just grows a bit more. I would never really call that 'bloat'. Not trying to back track, but to me, bloat is when a database grows in size over time, but when compacted, it gets smaller. The portion that is 'reduced' is bloat. The portion left after the compact is 'overhead'. That's my definition. Admittedly, if you are going to run close to max db size, then lookups should be removed, to get that much more space. But we are talking overhead space, not really 'bloat'. As far as the compacting issue, that's another story. Microsoft has several good reasons for not releasing the inner workings of JET. First of all, there is the licensing issue. If you developed a software package you wanted people to buy, would you give anyone the source? Of course not. If MS gave out the inner workings of JET, it wouldn't be long until Access was unnecessary, because people would just roll their own JET engine. Another reason is support. Jet does a lot of stuff, so even if they did hand out the detailed specs, one little slip, and even a good developer could seriously fry an .mdb. There is nothing mysterious about corruption. It's usually easy to explain, and in most cases is fixable. What you must remember, is that file corruption is NOT limited to .mdb's. It can happen in any type of file. The difference between Access and other file types, however, is what makes it seem like more of an issue. A few years ago, our network was in a serious state of disrepair. We had file corruptions all over the place. That included Word and Excel files, and definitely included .mdb's. A file is nothing more then a series of bytes. With a bad network, flaky hard drive, corrupted OS, (and a million other reasons), it certainly is not impossible to goof a few bytes here and there. Now, depending on what kind of file it is, and what that file does, is going to determine how the corruption affects things. Take, for example, an .exe or .dll. Those files contain CPU instructions. Have you ever had a program start crashing on you? After an Uninstall and reinstall, everything is working again. A lot of times that is due to a file corruption. One corrupted (changed) byte in a .dll or .exe, and you are now changing how the CPU deals with that code. All sorts of things can happen. However, in something like and HTML file, HTML is designed to ignore what it doesn't understand, so it's nearly impossible to have normal file corruption do any real 'damage' to an HMTL file. The more common issues with Word and Excel are the 'locking' files. Something will goof in them, and then that file is locked out. Since Word/Excel is saving changes in those temp files, actual corruption in the original document is more rare (but not unheard of...excel and word have to update the original document when you save it, so that is when corruption can occur there). With an .mdb file, JET is monitoring who has what locked, is reading/updating indexes, reading/updating data, etc. A lot of activity in one file. The .ldb file is only storing who's logged in (and it is also used for locks within the .mdb, but other then the who's logged in, no other data is being changed in the .ldb, only locking bytes). Get a goofed byte in the mix, and things can either continue, go seriously awry, or somewhere in between. just depends what was affected. A lot of time, the corruption is simply someone's machine not 'closing' out of the database correctly. That is easily repaired. But if bytes are corrupted in the indexes, the table definitions, or in the code, that is something the system doesn't know how to 'replace', because it doesn't have a 'template' or 'starting point' to replace it with. As far as I know, the ONLY design issue KNOWN to corrupt a database, happens to lie with a problem between JET and Foxpro. Something about the differences between how JET deals with Memo fields, and Foxpro deals with them. Access does NOT corrupt .mdb's, it is an outside influence that does that. That is a VERY important concept to remember. Because of that, there are NO features within Access that will corrupt a database. (Yes, a feature could be programmed wrong, but Microsoft would eventually fix that with a service pack, because a self corrupting database system won't sell....). Recovering from a corruption all depends on where the corruption actually lies, which is not entirely blind luck. Since most corruption issues are only put into affect when a database is being read/locked/written, what you are reading/writing is usually going to be the place where the corruption lies. So it could be data within a table, table defs, indexes, code, etc. Practically everything used within a database. So not only are all database features designed to NOT corrupt the database, but they are also all prone to fail, if file corruption does occur. On top of that, all features have their own quirks as to the difficulties of recovering. Corruption in the data isn't too bad, since you'll just get a bad record or two. Corruption in code is more difficult, because it will probably lock up quite a bit of the code, but that can be returned. Corruption within a tabledef, or index can affect whether the data is easily retrievable, since JET uses them when retrieving it. Hope that clears up some of the mystery for you. Drew -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of John Bartow Sent: Friday, March 26, 2004 10:39 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] Lookup Fields in Table Design Hi Drew, Don't misunderstand me, your points are well taken, and you have my utmost respect as a developer/programmer. Corruption is just a hot spot on my psyche. If I knew HOW it was caused it would be different and that's the issue - apparently no one (including M$) does or they would prevent it. Even when considering that M$ allows some things to happen/not happen as a bone thrown to its third party developers, no one has a corruption fixing utility that works and is making money off of. "Data goes into black box - gets corrupted - data doesn't come out of black box." That's actually my biggest concern with Access. The absolute (publicly) undocumented proprietary nature of it. Sometimes I think the (publicly) can be left out of the statement. I'm actually quite surprised by the results of this little debate. Ken, Charlotte, Dev, Lebans and others all warn against it. I think the question I posed here to Susan concerning lookups originally came to mind about 5 years ago when I saw it on Dev's website under the "ten rules". I don't follow "rules" - when I see the word "rule" my mind automatically translates it to "strong guideline", but it made me curious. Like I said I don't generally use lookups, I have, and I will if the situation calls for them again. -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of DWUTKA at marlow.com Sent: Friday, March 26, 2004 1:17 AM To: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com; accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: RE: [AccessD] Lookup Fields in Table Design John, the points are cute, but the problem is that Lookup fields do NOT cause corruption. He said they made it more difficult to fix. There are a TON of things (that everyone uses) that make repairing corruption more difficult. Essentially, if you make a blank database, and put it on CD, you stand the best chances of recovering that database when it's completely blank, and never used. Once you start adding data, code, objecs, etc, you are adding things which can complicate a recovery. So it's a no pointer / moot point, to say that lookup's made a particular recovery difficult. If there had been a bit of error handling code, which got in the way of recovering a database, would you say 'I'll never use Error Handling code, because it made my life difficult once'? I didn't think so. Drew -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com Sun Mar 28 13:10:28 2004 From: jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com (John W. Colby) Date: Sun, 28 Mar 2004 14:10:28 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Lookup Fields in Table Design In-Reply-To: <20040328185759.QYGS1781.imf18aec.mail.bellsouth.net@SUSANONE> Message-ID: >FWIW, you probably have pretty much killed it with your caustic remarks -- I wish you guys wouldn't do that. It intimidates people. As one who loves to beat a subject to death myself, I couldn't agree more. John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Susan Harkins Sent: Sunday, March 28, 2004 1:58 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: [AccessD] Lookup Fields in Table Design Why do men get so grouchy in their old age? Andy and William -- if you don't want to read the thread, can you not ignore it? Are you trying to tell us that because you find no value in the discussion, that the discussion is therefore valueless? I'm sure that's not really what you mean to say. Ignore the discussion if you're not getting anything out of it. We all ignore threads all the time. Let them hash it out. I'm pretty much done with the thread myself, but this is the one thing that some of you do that really annoys me. Leave the thread be. If it's gets off topic, then kill it. FWIW, you probably have pretty much killed it with your caustic remarks -- I wish you guys wouldn't do that. It intimidates people. Susan H. ...ah ...welcome to Florida Andy ...we may not be able to count votes but, just like the butterfly ballot, we sure as hell know when something has been beat to death a hundred times over! :)))))) -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From john at winhaven.net Sun Mar 28 13:12:03 2004 From: john at winhaven.net (John Bartow) Date: Sun, 28 Mar 2004 13:12:03 -0600 Subject: [AccessD] Lookup Fields in Table Design In-Reply-To: <001801c414b5$9cc30880$b274d0d5@minster33c3r25> Message-ID: Hi Andy, So far only 2 people have complained. And both of you are quite experienced developers. I think it is winding down though. Looks like you had fun at your "conference"! :o) -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Andy Lacey Sent: Sunday, March 28, 2004 5:13 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: [AccessD] Lookup Fields in Table Design Is it just me, or is this thread consuming enormous amounts of bandwidth to little purpose? Is there ANY chance it might stop one day? Could you not call it a draw - and accept that, like so much else in Access/life, some people like it and some don't? Each side has made their points (over and over) and anyone thinking of using Lookups can now read what's been read, and caveat user. -- Andy Lacey http://www.minstersystems.co.uk > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of > DWUTKA at marlow.com > Sent: 28 March 2004 11:05 > To: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com; accessd at databaseadvisors.com > Subject: RE: [AccessD] Lookup Fields in Table Design > > > I'd leave Floridians out of it. We all know how well they > can handle a voting system. > > Good thing they aren't keeping score for us! LOL > > Drew > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Sent: 3/27/04 3:53 PM > Subject: RE: [AccessD] Lookup Fields in Table Design > > -5 points to everyone in Florida! > > ;o) > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of > William Hindman > Sent: Saturday, March 27, 2004 12:45 AM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: Re: [AccessD] Lookup Fields in Table Design > > > ...at long, long, long, long last!!!! > > ...a post in this endless, angels on a pinhead, thread that > actually would produce a positive result in my workday world > :))))))))) > > ...thank god that Fridays usually kill the unkillable threads > of the past week :((( > > William Hindman > ipsedixitism: something is true because I myself have said it > is true ...the philosophy of Noam Chomsky :) > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "John W. Colby" > To: "Access Developers discussion and problem solving" > > Sent: Friday, March 26, 2004 10:53 PM > Subject: RE: [AccessD] Lookup Fields in Table Design > > > > The real answer to this is to just shoot all users. Problem solved! > > > > John W. Colby > > www.ColbyConsulting.com > > > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/a> ccessd > Website: > http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > -- > > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/a> ccessd > Website: > http://www.databaseadvisors.com > -- > > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/a> ccessd > Website: > http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From ssharkins at bellsouth.net Sun Mar 28 13:12:38 2004 From: ssharkins at bellsouth.net (Susan Harkins) Date: Sun, 28 Mar 2004 14:12:38 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Lookup Fields in Table Design In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <20040328191238.RCCX1781.imf18aec.mail.bellsouth.net@SUSANONE> Oh geez... Did I wake up in Oz this morning??????? ;) Susan H> As one who loves to beat a subject to death myself, I couldn't agree more. From john at winhaven.net Sun Mar 28 13:14:56 2004 From: john at winhaven.net (John Bartow) Date: Sun, 28 Mar 2004 13:14:56 -0600 Subject: [AccessD] Lookup Fields in Table Design In-Reply-To: <20040328185759.QYGS1781.imf18aec.mail.bellsouth.net@SUSANONE> Message-ID: I'm guessing (from the pictures) that Andy's got a bit of a hang-over going... ;o) -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Susan Harkins Sent: Sunday, March 28, 2004 12:58 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: [AccessD] Lookup Fields in Table Design Why do men get so grouchy in their old age? Andy and William -- if you don't want to read the thread, can you not ignore it? Are you trying to tell us that because you find no value in the discussion, that the discussion is therefore valueless? I'm sure that's not really what you mean to say. Ignore the discussion if you're not getting anything out of it. We all ignore threads all the time. Let them hash it out. I'm pretty much done with the thread myself, but this is the one thing that some of you do that really annoys me. Leave the thread be. If it's gets off topic, then kill it. FWIW, you probably have pretty much killed it with your caustic remarks -- I wish you guys wouldn't do that. It intimidates people. Susan H. ...ah ...welcome to Florida Andy ...we may not be able to count votes but, just like the butterfly ballot, we sure as hell know when something has been beat to death a hundred times over! :)))))) -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com Sun Mar 28 13:23:08 2004 From: jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com (John W. Colby) Date: Sun, 28 Mar 2004 14:23:08 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Lookup Fields in Table Design In-Reply-To: <20040328191238.RCCX1781.imf18aec.mail.bellsouth.net@SUSANONE> Message-ID: Without a sense of humor, life is meaningless. John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Susan Harkins Sent: Sunday, March 28, 2004 2:13 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: [AccessD] Lookup Fields in Table Design Oh geez... Did I wake up in Oz this morning??????? ;) Susan H> As one who loves to beat a subject to death myself, I couldn't agree more. -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com Sun Mar 28 13:38:37 2004 From: jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com (John W. Colby) Date: Sun, 28 Mar 2004 14:38:37 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Framework Discussion - Troubleshooting unload problems Message-ID: Framework ? Troubleshooting unload problems As I have mentioned, potentially the biggest problem with programming objects is getting them all unloaded reliably. In the best case this is easy and everything just works. Unfortunately we all know that eventually we will run into the worst case. In our case, the worst case is a class that holds a pointer to a form. The class fails to unload, the form never truly closes, Access appears to close but doesn?t, and a HUGE memory leak just occurred. Windows may refuse to close, particular the Win98 variants. Nasty stuff. How can this happen? As we know the framework uses a form class. The form class dimensions a form object WithEvents, a form object is passed in and saved in a variable in the class header. Each control class is passed a form object and stores the pointer in the control class? header. We just set up the scenario. Now suppose some smart developer wants to sink events from dclsFrm. Yes, dclsFrm raises events to inform the native form class that things have occurred. So the developer dimensions a dclsFrm variable and grabs a pointer to the class from the form?s variable. The new variable can be declared WithEvents, and sink the dclsFrm events which can be pretty useful. However, the user now tries to close the form. The form appears to close, however there is a pointer to the dclsFrm instance for that form that is not set to nothing, and voila, trouble! These kinds of problems are really not uncommon in class programming. Any object that broadcasts events can have pointers to it in multiple locations, all sinking those events. A class (or indeed any object) doesn?t truly close (unload from memory) until the last variable holding a pointer to the object is set to nothing. Not clearing out that ?last instance pointer? will absolutely prevent the object from unloading and may cause the nightmare scenario described in the second paragraph. The answer is not to avoid object programming, but to be aware of the potential problems and to build a tool to assist us in at least knowing that objects are still referenced when we believe they should be shut down. Pointers to objects (forms, controls and classes) can be stored in variables of type variant and object, in variables of the specific type of the object being stored, and in collections (which are if I?m not mistaken just variables in a special stack like structure.). It would be convenient if we could pass a variable that we wanted a pointer to the class stored in to the class itself. In other words, tell the class to ?store a pointer to yourself in this variable?. This would allow the class itself to then place a pointer to each such variable in a collection inside the class. Now the class could ?clean up EVERY pointer to itself? just by iterating that collection and setting each variable = nothing, then removing the variable from its collection. Unfortunately this just isn?t an option that can be enforced and without the enforcement it becomes more trouble than it is worth. The point of this discussion is to familiarize the reader with why the problem exists and how it really does become a problem, and that there is no easy solution. If there is no easy solution, then at least we need to know when objects are failing to unload. If the developer is aware, and uses some basic troubleshooting techniques on a regular basis as the application is being developed, we can stay ahead of the problem. Building a system that loads the framework with 30 or 40 class instances, plus a dozen forms with several hundred class instances, and discovering that there are 70 class instances not unloading can cause a mild panic. However if we have some method of knowing every single instance loaded, we can load / unload objects and watch the object count left in memory, print out object name lists etc and discover where things are not unloaded. Knowing that, we can then go find the problem and solve it. Thus we might build a test for the SysVar class (for example) where we load it all by itself, without the framework. Make absolutely sure that all class instances loaded by the SysVar system unload correctly before we allow the Framework class to automatically load / unload the SysVar class. Even then, we would want to load the framework, then unload it and examine the class instance stack to see what is left loaded. Don?t go on until you can load / unload the framework and leave nothing in memory. Of course in order to do this we need a tool. In my previous versions of the framework I used a module with a set of private variables, a handful of collections and code to increment / decrement counts and store class instance names. While this worked, it had issues. In order to address these issues I am designing a class (of course) with all of the structures and code required to allow us to track classes loading and unloading. This class will hold an actual pointer to every class instance. I do this for a variety of reasons, first of which is that the variable holding the original pointer to the class may be difficult to find unless we can get at the class instance itself. Just knowing the name of the class instance is often unhelpful. The first thing we need to do is allow every class instance to register itself as it loads and unregister itself as it unloads. It turns out to be easy to do this, just call a ?register? function in Init() and an ?unregister? function in Term(). We could have the class call a function passing a pointer to itself (the class instance) and have that function save the pointer into a ?stack?. This is actually quite useful since we can now get at the class instance and run methods, query properties etc. However if you think about it for a minute, the Terminate() event of a class does not fire until the class unloads, thus if we try to save an actual pointer to the class we end up in a catch 22 where just setting the original pointer to the class to nothing doesn?t cause the class to unload since we have our saved pointer. Calling the class? term and having the class unload its saved pointer works just fine, but then if the original pointer is never set to nothing, the class never unloads. Further if there are other pointers to the class out there the class never unloads. However we think it unloaded because the pointer isn?t in the instance stack any more. For this reason we can?t simply use a class instance pointer stack by itself. In fact, if we do use an instance stack, then we MUST call the class? term() before setting the class variable to nothing or the class won? t unload for the reason discussed above. In fact, while I like the instance stack (collection of pointers to each instance) it is often not strictly necessary. If you don?t want it we will provide a method of not using that piece using a SysVar to turn on/off the instance stack. So even if we are going to use an instance pointer stack, we also need another tool to determine whether we really truly unloaded the class instance. Since we know that the class Terminate() event will not run unless it is specifically called inside the class (don?t do that!) or the class actually unloads we can build another stack of the class instance names and have the Terminate() event remove it?s instance name from this stack. Thus we have the very useful tool of a stack of actual pointers to every class instance (that we haven?t called the term() method of), and we have a backup tool of a stack of class instance names. The stack of names will only be cleared out by the class instances unloading, thus it is the ?failsafe? that tells us when we have indeed unloaded everything. If you followed this whole discussion, go to the head of the class. What we?re really saying is that we want to build a collection of pointers to class instances, but also a collection of just the names of the instances. The collection of the names will be the final judge of what got unloaded since the only way to remove a name from that collection is the Terminate of a given instance removing it. If we expose the count of these two collections, and the count differs, we have problems. We tried to unload something, but failed to really set the last pointer to it to nothing. The pointer to it was removed from the pointer collection but not from the name collection. Is all this really necessary? Well, yes. We can get along without the pointer collection, it is really a nicety. The collection of instance names however is a must ? it tells the truth about what doesn?t unload and we really want to know that! Implementation To implement the system for tracking, I built clsInstanceStack that will be instantiated one time, before the framework class. The class has all of the default properties and methods of any other class (uses clsTemplate). This class must be initialized and ready to go before anything else so that all other classes can use it to register themselves. Framework Initialization code: In the header of basFWInit we dimension a new variable mclsInstanceStack. Option Compare Database Option Explicit Private mclsInstanceStack As clsInstanceStack 'A single instance of the troubleshooting class. Private mclsFramework As clsFramework 'The framework foundation class Private mblnFWInitialized As Boolean 'A boolean to tell us that we have already initialized In FWInit we instantiate and initialize the new class first. ' 'The init function for the framework ' Public Function FWInit() If mblnFWInitialized = False Then ' mblnFWInitialized = True Randomize Set mclsInstanceStack = New clsInstanceStack mclsInstanceStack.Init Nothing Set mclsFramework = New clsFramework mclsFramework.Init Nothing End If End Function In FWTerm we terminate the new class last so that all other classes have unloaded before this one will. ' 'The term function for the framework ' Public Function FWTerm() mclsFramework.Term Set mclsFramework = Nothing mclsInstanceStack.Term Set mclsInstanceStack = Nothing mblnFWInitialized = False End Function We also need a random number generator that we can use to generate random numbers of a fixed length. ' 'Returns a long integer random number between lngUpperBound and lngLowerBound ' Function Random(lngUpperBound As Long, lngLowerBound As Long) As Long Random = Int((lngUpperBound - lngLowerBound + 1) * Rnd + lngLowerBound) End Function And we need a function to call that will empty collections of objects, calling the object?s Term event. There will be cases where we have collections of object pointers that don?t ?belong? to the class holding the pointer, thus we need to be able to call the object?s term or not as the situation requires. ' 'Empties out a collection containing class instances ' Public Function ColEmpty(col As Collection, Optional blnCallTerm As Boolean = True) On Error GoTo Err_ColEmpty On Error Resume Next While col.Count > 0 'If we are supposed to call term() do so If blnCallTerm Then col(1).Term End If On Error GoTo Err_ColEmpty col.Remove 1 Wend exit_ColEmpty: Exit Function Err_ColEmpty: Select Case Err Case 91 'Collection empty Resume exit_ColEmpty Case Else MsgBox Err.Description, , "Error in Function clsSysVars.colEmpty" Resume exit_ColEmpty End Select Resume 0 '.FOR TROUBLESHOOTING End Function And of course we need a function to return a pointer to the troubleshooting class. Public Function cIS() As clsInstanceStack Set cIS = mclsInstanceStack End Function This is all code found in basFWInit. clsInstanceStack: The instance stack class header has two collections for holding the name and a pointer to the class. 'A name for the class module Private Const mcstrModuleName As String = "clsInstanceStack" 'A name for the class instance Private mstrInstanceName As String 'Collections for the name and the class pointers Private mcolName As Collection 'Holds name string for each class loaded Private mcolPtr As Collection 'Holds a pointer to every class instantiated 'We want to be able to turn off this logging Dim blnEnblPtrStack As Boolean Dim blnEnblNameStack As Boolean Initialize sets these two collections. Private Sub Class_Initialize() Set mcolName = New Collection Set mcolPtr = New Collection End Sub Init() registers this class in its own collections. Public Sub Init(ByRef robjParent As Object) blnEnblPtrStack = True blnEnblNameStack = True 'Register this class in the troubleshooting collections cIS.Register Me End Sub Terminate() removes the name from the name collection. If this happens, then we really have properly removed the instance from memory. Private Sub Class_Terminate() 'Remove this class' name from the troubleshooting class cIS.NameDel mstrInstanceName End Sub Term() removes the pointer to the class from the pointer collection. This method is called from the ?owner? of the class when it is trying to shut down the class instance. Public Sub Term() Static blnRan As Boolean 'The term may run more than once so 'remove this class' pointer from the troubleshooting pointer class cIS.PtrDel Me End Sub A property allows getting and setting the InstanceName variable in the class ? header. Public Property Get NameInstance() As String NameInstance = mstrInstanceName End Property Public Property Let NameInstance(strName As String) mstrInstanceName = strName End Property The code below is really the guts of this troubleshooting class. First we need to be able to get counts of each collection. ' 'Gets a count of pointers of classes instantiated Public Property Get PtrCnt() As Long PtrCnt = mcolPtr.Count End Property 'Gets a count of names of classes instantiated Property Get NameCnt() As Long NameCnt = mcolName.Count End Property The two methods called from each classes Term() or Terminate(). ' 'Removes a class from the collection 'Called from each class' Term() ' Public Function PtrDel(obj As Object) On Error Resume Next mcolPtr.Remove (obj.NameInstance) End Function ' 'Removes a class name from the collection 'Called from each class' Terminate() event ' Public Function NameDel(strName As String) On Error Resume Next 'We may have the name stack disabled mcolName.Remove strName End Function If you ever want to get a pointer to a specific class that is loaded. 'return a pointer to the object Public Function Ptr(strName As String) As Object On Error Resume Next 'We may have the pointer stack turned off Set Ptr = mcolPtr(strName) End Function These two functions return strings of the names of all the objects stored in the collection. Public Function PtrNames() As String On Error GoTo Err_PtrNames Dim obj As Object Dim str As String If blnEnblPtrStack Then For Each obj In mcolPtr If Len(str) > 0 Then str = str & "; " & vbCrLf & obj.NameInstance Else str = obj.NameInstance End If Next obj End If PtrNames = str Exit_PtrNames: Exit Function Err_PtrNames: MsgBox Err.Description, , "Error in Function basClassGlobal.PtrNames" Resume Exit_PtrNames Resume 0 '.FOR TROUBLESHOOTING End Function Public Function Names() As String On Error GoTo Err_Names Dim str As String Dim strName As Variant If blnEnblNameStack Then For Each strName In mcolName If Len(str) > 0 Then str = str & "; " & vbCrLf & strName Else str = strName End If Next strName End If Names = str Exit_Names: Exit Function Err_Names: MsgBox Err.Description, , "Error in Function clsInstanceStack.Names" Resume Exit_Names Resume 0 '.FOR TROUBLESHOOTING End Function Below is the Register function that saves the class pointers and names in the respective collection. Note: We want to be able to switch this stuff on and off by using SysVars but the SysVar class is a Service Class loaded by the Framework class. Thus since this loads first SysVars aren?t directly available to control this functionality. We therefore use Booleans that we just set true in the init() of this class. Further we then provide two methods that can set these Booleans, which will be used by the Framework class to turn on/off this troubleshooting processing using SysVars. Public Property Let EnblPtrStack(lblnEnblPtrStack As Boolean) blnEnblPtrStack = lblnEnblPtrStack End Property Public Property Let EnblNameStack(lblnEnblNameStack As Boolean) blnEnblNameStack = lblnEnblNameStack End Property What that means though is that the functionality cannot be turned off until the Framework loads and the SysVar classes load, thus all of those classes will load into the collections even if the SysVars later turn off this functionality. If you want to prevent loading the Framework class and SysVars into this troubleshooting class you need to set the Booleans = FALSE in init() of this class. You can then turn on the logging for all classes after the SysVars load. The downside is that you can?t see any service classes load that the framework class may load. 'THIS FUNCTION GENERATES A UNIQUE NAME FOR THIS INSTANCE OF THIS CLASS USING THE 'CLASS MODULE NAME AND A RANDOM VALUE AND LOGS THIS INSTANCE IN THE TWO COLLECTIONS 'THE POINTER COLLECTION AND THE NAME COLLECTION. ' 'This function will check to see if the instance name is already in place, i.e. 'if the calling class has its own method of generating an instance name. If it 'is in place (length > 0) then we will attempt to save the name in the InstanceName 'in the name collection keyed on the instance name. If it saves we will then save 'the pointer in the pointer collection, also keyed on the instance name. ' 'If it fails to save, or if the len(InstanceName) = 0 then this function will build 'a name for the class instance. ' 'The algorithm for building a new name will be to take the parent's instance name '(if it exists), add the instances MODULE name, and try to save that. If the save 'fails, then a fixed length 9 digit random number is added to the whole and attempted 'to save. ' Public Function Register(obj As Object) On Error GoTo Err_Register Dim strInstanceName As String If blnEnblNameStack Or blnEnblPtrStack Then 'if the instance name is not already initialized by the calling class, attempt 'to build an instance name from the parent lineage plus module name If Len(obj.NameInstance) = 0 Then On Error Resume Next strInstanceName = obj.Parent.NameInstance & ":" & obj.NameModule 'if the err <> 0 then the parent did not exist so just go with the object 'module name. If Err <> 0 Then strInstanceName = obj.NameModule End If obj.NameInstance = strInstanceName Else strInstanceName = obj.NameInstance End If 'attempt to add the ame of the object to the name collection On Error Resume Next mcolName.Add item:=strInstanceName, key:=strInstanceName 'if the err <> 0 then the name collided with an existing object so add a random number 'it is remotely possible to get a random number that collides as well so loop if that 'happens and select another random number While Err <> 0 Err.Clear strInstanceName = obj.NameInstance & ":" & Random(999999, 100000) mcolName.Add item:=strInstanceName, key:=strInstanceName If Err <> 0 Then MsgBox Error$ Wend 'When we finally have a unique instance name (it stores in the name collection) If blnEnblNameStack Then 'store that instance name back into the object InstanceName proeprty. obj.NameInstance = strInstanceName End If If blnEnblPtrStack Then 'Now add the object into the framework object tracking system mcolPtr.Add obj, strInstanceName End If End If Exit_Register: On Error Resume Next Exit Function Err_Register: Select Case Err Case 0 'insert Errors you wish to ignore here Resume Next ' Case 91 'no parent exists ' PtrAdd obj ' Resume Exit_Register ' Case 2465 'no child collection exists in the parent object ' PtrAdd obj ' Resume Exit_Register Case Else 'All other errors will trap Beep MsgBox Err.Description, , "Error in function basClassGlobal.Register" Resume Exit_Register End Select Resume 0 'FOR TROUBLESHOOTING End Function That is really all there is to the troubleshooting class, two collections to hold name strings and pointers to the classes loading and a few methods to register the classes (if enabled) and return strings of names and counts of the collections. Framework code: Having done that we need to modify the framework class to read the sysvars and pass them along to this class. We must load the SysVar class and initialize it, then we can read the two Enbl SysVars out and pass them to the methods of the cIS troubleshooting class. Public Sub Init(ByRef robjParent As Object) mclsSV.Init Nothing, gfwcnn, "usystblFWSysVars" cIS.EnblPtrStack = SV("EnblPtrStack") cIS.EnblNameStack = SV("EnblNameStack") End Sub Generic class code: In order to use this troubleshooting system any class must have some specific things. First it must have a constant that is the class module name. It must also have a string that will hold the instance name. In the class header: Private Const mcstrModuleName As String = "dclsFrm" Private mstrInstanceName As String The class? terminate() event remove its own name from the name collection. Private Sub Class_Terminate() 'Remove this class' name from the troubleshooting class cIS.NameDel mstrInstanceName End Sub The Init() method must call the register method to place its name in the name collection and its pointer in the pointer collection (if enabled by the SysVars). Public Sub Init(ByRef robjParent As Object, lfrm As Form) 'Register this class in the troubleshooting collections cIS.Register Me End Sub Term() must call the method that removes the class? pointer from the pointer collection. Public Sub Term() cIS.PtrDel Me End Sub There must be a property to read the module name. Property Get NameModule() As String NameModule = mcstrModuleName End Property And we need a property to read and set the InstanceName. Public Property Get NameInstance() As String NameInstance = mstrInstanceName End Property Public Property Let NameInstance(strName As String) mstrInstanceName = strName End Property That?s pretty much it. As a class instantiates its Init() method calls the Register method of the troubleshooting class, passing a pointer to itself. If the storage of the name and /or pointer are enabled by the SysVars, Register will try to save the name and/or pointer keyed on the name. If that fails Register() will add a random number to the end of the name and try again until the save works. It is possible to build your own InstanceName if you wish. I do this in the control classes by taking the parent object?s instance name (the form?s instance name) adding a ?:? and then the name of the control. Function Init(ByRef robjParent As Object, lfrm As Form, lcbo As ComboBox, lintDataType As Integer) 'Pass in a pointer to a specific control Set mfrm = lfrm Set mcbo = lcbo 'Save that pointer to a private variable here in the class mstrInstanceName = mobjParent.NameInstance & ":" & mcbo.Name 'Register this class in the troubleshooting collections cIS.Register Me End Function In the case where the form only loads one time this works without modification and I get names that just make sense such as frmPeopleV5:txtDOB. If the form is loaded more than once, not common but possible, then the form class would end up with a random number embedded in it and the same control would have a name something like frmPeopleV5:832735:txtDOB. Obviously two controls on the same form can never have the same name so we never have an issue there. It is often helpful when it comes time to troubleshoot things to have names that make sense if you can ensure that they will be unique. You really don? t need to worry however as the Register() method will add a random number as needed to force the name to be unique, and then saves that name back into the class? InstanceName variable. To test the system: ? Open frmTestClsInstanceStack. The name collection will be displayed with all of the names of all classes loaded so far, including classes for the form and control on this form. ? Go to the database window and load another form, perhaps frmPeopleV5. Switch back to frmTestClsInstanceStack and press the ?Read class names? button at the bottom of the form. Notice more class names in the text box. ? Close that form you just opened, switch back to frmTestClsInstanceStack and press ?Read Class Names?. Notice that the class names for all classes loaded by the form you just closed are now gone. Summary Classes can cause memory leaks and shutdown problems in Access if not unloaded correctly, particularly if the class holds a pointer to a physical object such as a form, control or record set. Since the whole point of many of our classes is to wrap such physical objects in a class so that we can extend the functionality of that object, we run a very real risk of causing such problems inadvertently. The troubleshooting class that I have described gives us some tools to troubleshoot these problems should they arise. As you design your application, or even your framework, it is imperative that you stop after designing every class and test the load and unload of that class and all its instances. By looking at the count of the names collection and the pointer collection as well as the actual names of the objects still in the names collection after we think our classes have unloaded, we can determine if problems exist, and if so at least which classes have not unloaded correctly. Using the system described in this article, if the name is in the name collection then the object didn?t unload. I can?t really help you discover why it didn?t unload, but I can at least tell you that it didn?t so you can go looking for the cause. John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com From wdhindman at bellsouth.net Sun Mar 28 13:52:22 2004 From: wdhindman at bellsouth.net (William Hindman) Date: Sun, 28 Mar 2004 14:52:22 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Lookup Fields in Table Design References: <20040328185759.QYGS1781.imf18aec.mail.bellsouth.net@SUSANONE> Message-ID: <001401c414fe$2fda9780$6101a8c0@dejpolsys> "Why do men get so grouchy in their old age?" Susan ...because we've been married so long!!!!! :))))))) William Hindman ipsedixitism: something is true because I myself have said it is true ...the philosophy of Noam Chomsky :) ----- Original Message ----- From: "Susan Harkins" To: "'Access Developers discussion and problem solving'" Sent: Sunday, March 28, 2004 1:58 PM Subject: RE: [AccessD] Lookup Fields in Table Design > Why do men get so grouchy in their old age? > > Andy and William -- if you don't want to read the thread, can you not ignore > it? Are you trying to tell us that because you find no value in the > discussion, that the discussion is therefore valueless? I'm sure that's not > really what you mean to say. Ignore the discussion if you're not getting > anything out of it. We all ignore threads all the time. > > Let them hash it out. I'm pretty much done with the thread myself, but this > is the one thing that some of you do that really annoys me. Leave the thread > be. If it's gets off topic, then kill it. > > FWIW, you probably have pretty much killed it with your caustic remarks -- I > wish you guys wouldn't do that. It intimidates people. > > Susan H. > > ...ah ...welcome to Florida Andy ...we may not be able to count votes but, > just like the butterfly ballot, we sure as hell know when something has been > beat to death a hundred times over! :)))))) > > > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > From ssharkins at bellsouth.net Sun Mar 28 13:54:36 2004 From: ssharkins at bellsouth.net (Susan Harkins) Date: Sun, 28 Mar 2004 14:54:36 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Lookup Fields in Table Design In-Reply-To: <001401c414fe$2fda9780$6101a8c0@dejpolsys> Message-ID: <20040328195436.SHOJ1746.imf17aec.mail.bellsouth.net@SUSANONE> Well, that explains Bill then... ;) Susan H. "Why do men get so grouchy in their old age?" Susan ...because we've been married so long!!!!! :))))))) From wdhindman at bellsouth.net Sun Mar 28 13:57:03 2004 From: wdhindman at bellsouth.net (William Hindman) Date: Sun, 28 Mar 2004 14:57:03 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Lookup Fields in Table Design References: Message-ID: <001b01c414fe$d7831fc0$6101a8c0@dejpolsys> ...lol ...can anyone imagine me "intimidating" Drew, JC, or John? :) ...and "caustic"? ...me? ...I mean we're talking JC here ...and Drew ...and ...well, you get the idea ...pros! :) William Hindman ipsedixitism: something is true because I myself have said it is true ...the philosophy of Noam Chomsky :) ----- Original Message ----- From: "John W. Colby" To: "Access Developers discussion and problem solving" Sent: Sunday, March 28, 2004 2:10 PM Subject: RE: [AccessD] Lookup Fields in Table Design > >FWIW, you probably have pretty much killed it with your caustic remarks -- > I wish you guys wouldn't do that. It intimidates people. > > As one who loves to beat a subject to death myself, I couldn't agree more. > > > > John W. Colby > www.ColbyConsulting.com > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Susan Harkins > Sent: Sunday, March 28, 2004 1:58 PM > To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' > Subject: RE: [AccessD] Lookup Fields in Table Design > > > Why do men get so grouchy in their old age? > > Andy and William -- if you don't want to read the thread, can you not ignore > it? Are you trying to tell us that because you find no value in the > discussion, that the discussion is therefore valueless? I'm sure that's not > really what you mean to say. Ignore the discussion if you're not getting > anything out of it. We all ignore threads all the time. > > Let them hash it out. I'm pretty much done with the thread myself, but this > is the one thing that some of you do that really annoys me. Leave the thread > be. If it's gets off topic, then kill it. > > FWIW, you probably have pretty much killed it with your caustic remarks -- I > wish you guys wouldn't do that. It intimidates people. > > Susan H. > > ...ah ...welcome to Florida Andy ...we may not be able to count votes but, > just like the butterfly ballot, we sure as hell know when something has been > beat to death a hundred times over! :)))))) > > > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > From wdhindman at bellsouth.net Sun Mar 28 13:58:51 2004 From: wdhindman at bellsouth.net (William Hindman) Date: Sun, 28 Mar 2004 14:58:51 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Lookup Fields in Table Design References: <20040328191238.RCCX1781.imf18aec.mail.bellsouth.net@SUSANONE> Message-ID: <002201c414ff$17460fa0$6101a8c0@dejpolsys> "Oh geez... Did I wake up in Oz this morning??????? ;) " Susan ...my guess would have been the wrong side of Kentucky :) William Hindman ipsedixitism: something is true because I myself have said it is true ...the philosophy of Noam Chomsky :) From pedro at plex.nl Sun Mar 28 14:11:32 2004 From: pedro at plex.nl (Pedro Janssen) Date: Sun, 28 Mar 2004 22:11:32 +0200 Subject: [AccessD] error in report References: <002001c414dd$5f501bf0$b274d0d5@minster33c3r25> Message-ID: <004801c41500$ff2080c0$f2c581d5@pedro> Hello Andy, i don't know exactly what you mean with: referring to the column returned by the report's source query, but i refer to the name that is in the original table and the query. I can see that name in the Field List. Pedro Janssen ----- Original Message ----- From: "Andy Lacey" To: "'Access Developers discussion and problem solving'" Sent: Sunday, March 28, 2004 5:57 PM Subject: RE: [AccessD] error in report > Pedro > Are you sure you're referring to the column returned by the report's source > query, not the name of a field on the report? > > -- Andy Lacey > http://www.minstersystems.co.uk > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of > > Pedro Janssen > > Sent: 28 March 2004 16:43 > > To: AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > Subject: [AccessD] error in report > > > > > > Hello group, > > > > i use an unbound textbox to calculate the total of a number > > field in a report. I used: =Nz(sum([Name of field])) or > > =sum([Name of field]). > > When i open the preview i get #error. What is wrong. > > > > > > Pedro Janssen > > -- > > _______________________________________________ > > AccessD mailing list > > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/a> ccessd > > Website: > > http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > > > > > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > From stuart at lexacorp.com.pg Sun Mar 28 15:48:40 2004 From: stuart at lexacorp.com.pg (Stuart McLachlan) Date: Mon, 29 Mar 2004 07:48:40 +1000 Subject: [AccessD] error in report In-Reply-To: <000801c414db$8d42b8d0$f2c581d5@pedro> Message-ID: <4067D4D8.10096.12FF38@localhost> On 28 Mar 2004 at 17:43, Pedro Janssen wrote: > Hello group, > > i use an unbound textbox to calculate the total of a number field in a report. I used: =Nz(sum([Name of field])) or =sum([Name of field]). > When i open the preview i get #error. What is wrong. > Did you originally create the textbox by dragging and dropping the field into the report? Make sure that the textbox is not named "Name of field". -- Lexacorp Ltd http://www.lexacorp.com.pg Information Technology Consultancy, Software Development,System Support. From andy at minstersystems.co.uk Sun Mar 28 15:54:40 2004 From: andy at minstersystems.co.uk (Andy Lacey) Date: Sun, 28 Mar 2004 22:54:40 +0100 Subject: [AccessD] Lookup Fields in Table Design In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <002201c4150f$454ec760$b274d0d5@minster33c3r25> LOL. I wish. I've had 24 hours on a plane and a week at work to get over it. -- Andy Lacey http://www.minstersystems.co.uk > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of John Bartow > Sent: 28 March 2004 20:15 > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: RE: [AccessD] Lookup Fields in Table Design > > > I'm guessing (from the pictures) that Andy's got a bit of a > hang-over going... > ;o) > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of > Susan Harkins > Sent: Sunday, March 28, 2004 12:58 PM > To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' > Subject: RE: [AccessD] Lookup Fields in Table Design > > > Why do men get so grouchy in their old age? > > Andy and William -- if you don't want to read the thread, can > you not ignore it? Are you trying to tell us that because you > find no value in the discussion, that the discussion is > therefore valueless? I'm sure that's not really what you mean > to say. Ignore the discussion if you're not getting anything > out of it. We all ignore threads all the time. > > Let them hash it out. I'm pretty much done with the thread > myself, but this is the one thing that some of you do that > really annoys me. Leave the thread be. If it's gets off > topic, then kill it. > > FWIW, you probably have pretty much killed it with your > caustic remarks -- I wish you guys wouldn't do that. It > intimidates people. > > Susan H. > > ...ah ...welcome to Florida Andy ...we may not be able to > count votes but, just like the butterfly ballot, we sure as > hell know when something has been beat to death a hundred > times over! :)))))) > > > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/a> ccessd > Website: > http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > -- > > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/a> ccessd > Website: > http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > From andy at minstersystems.co.uk Sun Mar 28 15:54:40 2004 From: andy at minstersystems.co.uk (Andy Lacey) Date: Sun, 28 Mar 2004 22:54:40 +0100 Subject: [AccessD] Lookup Fields in Table Design In-Reply-To: <20040328185759.QYGS1781.imf18aec.mail.bellsouth.net@SUSANONE> Message-ID: <002301c4150f$457980e0$b274d0d5@minster33c3r25> I wish, but I have to mod the damned thing so no I can't just ignore it. But ok, ok if you feel so strongly then I apologise and will just keep on reading. C'est la vie. But just so you don't think I was too quick off the mark I've counted 125 posts so far on this. But what the hell, let it go on. -- Andy Lacey http://www.minstersystems.co.uk > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of > Susan Harkins > Sent: 28 March 2004 19:58 > To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' > Subject: RE: [AccessD] Lookup Fields in Table Design > > > Why do men get so grouchy in their old age? > > Andy and William -- if you don't want to read the thread, can > you not ignore it? Are you trying to tell us that because you > find no value in the discussion, that the discussion is > therefore valueless? I'm sure that's not really what you mean > to say. Ignore the discussion if you're not getting anything > out of it. We all ignore threads all the time. > > Let them hash it out. I'm pretty much done with the thread > myself, but this is the one thing that some of you do that > really annoys me. Leave the thread be. If it's gets off > topic, then kill it. > > FWIW, you probably have pretty much killed it with your > caustic remarks -- I wish you guys wouldn't do that. It > intimidates people. > > Susan H. > > ...ah ...welcome to Florida Andy ...we may not be able to > count votes but, just like the butterfly ballot, we sure as > hell know when something has been beat to death a hundred > times over! :)))))) > > > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/a> ccessd > Website: > http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > From andy at minstersystems.co.uk Sun Mar 28 16:06:49 2004 From: andy at minstersystems.co.uk (Andy Lacey) Date: Sun, 28 Mar 2004 23:06:49 +0100 Subject: [AccessD] Lookup Fields in Table Design In-Reply-To: <20040328185759.QYGS1781.imf18aec.mail.bellsouth.net@SUSANONE> Message-ID: <002401c41510$f8089ab0$b274d0d5@minster33c3r25> On further thought the fact that I have to read/mod the posts is my problem and shouldn't have come into it. So further apologies. -- Andy Lacey http://www.minstersystems.co.uk I wish, but I have to mod the damned thing so no I can't just ignore it. But ok, ok if you feel so strongly then I apologise and will just keep on reading. C'est la vie. But just so you don't think I was too quick off the mark I've counted 125 posts so far on this. But what the hell, let it go on. -- Andy Lacey http://www.minstersystems.co.uk > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of > Susan Harkins > Sent: 28 March 2004 19:58 > To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' > Subject: RE: [AccessD] Lookup Fields in Table Design > > > Why do men get so grouchy in their old age? > > Andy and William -- if you don't want to read the thread, can you not > ignore it? Are you trying to tell us that because you find no value in > the discussion, that the discussion is therefore valueless? I'm sure > that's not really what you mean to say. Ignore the discussion if > you're not getting anything out of it. We all ignore threads all the > time. > > Let them hash it out. I'm pretty much done with the thread myself, but > this is the one thing that some of you do that really annoys me. Leave > the thread be. If it's gets off topic, then kill it. > > FWIW, you probably have pretty much killed it with your caustic > remarks -- I wish you guys wouldn't do that. It intimidates people. > > Susan H. > > ...ah ...welcome to Florida Andy ...we may not be able to count votes > but, just like the butterfly ballot, we sure as hell know when > something has been beat to death a hundred times over! :)))))) > > > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/a> ccessd > Website: > http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > From wdhindman at bellsouth.net Sun Mar 28 18:28:28 2004 From: wdhindman at bellsouth.net (William Hindman) Date: Sun, 28 Mar 2004 19:28:28 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Lookup Fields in Table Design References: <002401c41510$f8089ab0$b274d0d5@minster33c3r25> Message-ID: <001401c41524$c1988260$6101a8c0@dejpolsys> ...ppppfffffftttttttt ...you're an easy mark for any female :)))))))))) William Hindman ipsedixitism: something is true because I myself have said it is true ...the philosophy of Noam Chomsky :) ----- Original Message ----- From: "Andy Lacey" To: "'Access Developers discussion and problem solving'" Sent: Sunday, March 28, 2004 5:06 PM Subject: RE: [AccessD] Lookup Fields in Table Design > On further thought the fact that I have to read/mod the posts is my problem > and shouldn't have come into it. So further apologies. > > -- Andy Lacey > http://www.minstersystems.co.uk > > > > I wish, but I have to mod the damned thing so no I can't just ignore it. But > ok, ok if you feel so strongly then I apologise and will just keep on > reading. C'est la vie. But just so you don't think I was too quick off the > mark I've counted 125 posts so far on this. But what the hell, let it go on. > > -- Andy Lacey > http://www.minstersystems.co.uk > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of > > Susan Harkins > > Sent: 28 March 2004 19:58 > > To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' > > Subject: RE: [AccessD] Lookup Fields in Table Design > > > > > > Why do men get so grouchy in their old age? > > > > Andy and William -- if you don't want to read the thread, can you not > > ignore it? Are you trying to tell us that because you find no value in > > the discussion, that the discussion is therefore valueless? I'm sure > > that's not really what you mean to say. Ignore the discussion if > > you're not getting anything out of it. We all ignore threads all the > > time. > > > > Let them hash it out. I'm pretty much done with the thread myself, but > > this is the one thing that some of you do that really annoys me. Leave > > the thread be. If it's gets off topic, then kill it. > > > > FWIW, you probably have pretty much killed it with your caustic > > remarks -- I wish you guys wouldn't do that. It intimidates people. > > > > Susan H. > > > > ...ah ...welcome to Florida Andy ...we may not be able to count votes > > but, just like the butterfly ballot, we sure as hell know when > > something has been beat to death a hundred times over! :)))))) > > > > > > -- > > _______________________________________________ > > AccessD mailing list > > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/a> ccessd > > Website: > > http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > > > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > From ssharkins at bellsouth.net Sun Mar 28 18:48:06 2004 From: ssharkins at bellsouth.net (Susan Harkins) Date: Sun, 28 Mar 2004 19:48:06 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Lookup Fields in Table Design In-Reply-To: <002301c4150f$457980e0$b274d0d5@minster33c3r25> Message-ID: <20040329004805.OPBK1729.imf24aec.mail.bellsouth.net@SUSANONE> Who decided you have to read every message? That's an odd rule. Yes, the list needs modeerators, but geez... That's overkill. Susan H. I wish, but I have to mod the damned thing so no I can't just ignore it. But ok, ok if you feel so strongly then I apologise and will just keep on reading. C'est la vie. But just so you don't think I was too quick off the mark I've counted 125 posts so far on this. But what the hell, let it go on. From john at winhaven.net Sun Mar 28 20:30:25 2004 From: john at winhaven.net (John Bartow) Date: Sun, 28 Mar 2004 20:30:25 -0600 Subject: [AccessD] Lookup Fields in Table Design In-Reply-To: <001b01c414fe$d7831fc0$6101a8c0@dejpolsys> Message-ID: Intimidate? Nah... challenge, bestir, kindle, rally, ally, rouse, magnify, redouble, and occasionally annoy ;o) -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of William Hindman Sent: Sunday, March 28, 2004 1:57 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Lookup Fields in Table Design ...lol ...can anyone imagine me "intimidating" Drew, JC, or John? :) ...and "caustic"? ...me? ...I mean we're talking JC here ...and Drew ...and ...well, you get the idea ...pros! :) William Hindman ipsedixitism: something is true because I myself have said it is true ...the philosophy of Noam Chomsky :) ----- Original Message ----- From: "John W. Colby" To: "Access Developers discussion and problem solving" Sent: Sunday, March 28, 2004 2:10 PM Subject: RE: [AccessD] Lookup Fields in Table Design > >FWIW, you probably have pretty much killed it with your caustic remarks -- > I wish you guys wouldn't do that. It intimidates people. > > As one who loves to beat a subject to death myself, I couldn't agree more. > > > > John W. Colby > www.ColbyConsulting.com > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Susan Harkins > Sent: Sunday, March 28, 2004 1:58 PM > To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' > Subject: RE: [AccessD] Lookup Fields in Table Design > > > Why do men get so grouchy in their old age? > > Andy and William -- if you don't want to read the thread, can you not ignore > it? Are you trying to tell us that because you find no value in the > discussion, that the discussion is therefore valueless? I'm sure that's not > really what you mean to say. Ignore the discussion if you're not getting > anything out of it. We all ignore threads all the time. > > Let them hash it out. I'm pretty much done with the thread myself, but this > is the one thing that some of you do that really annoys me. Leave the thread > be. If it's gets off topic, then kill it. > > FWIW, you probably have pretty much killed it with your caustic remarks -- I > wish you guys wouldn't do that. It intimidates people. > > Susan H. > > ...ah ...welcome to Florida Andy ...we may not be able to count votes but, > just like the butterfly ballot, we sure as hell know when something has been > beat to death a hundred times over! :)))))) > > > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From terry.mace at baesystems.com Sun Mar 28 21:10:15 2004 From: terry.mace at baesystems.com (MACE, Terry) Date: Mon, 29 Mar 2004 12:40:15 +0930 Subject: [AccessD] Framework Discussion - Another poll Message-ID: I'm reading it all though at the moment I don't have time to work through the examples. Terry Mace -----Original Message----- From: John W. Colby [mailto:jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com] Sent: Wednesday, 24 March 2004 17:10 To: AccessD Subject: [AccessD] Framework Discussion - Another poll I need to take another poll. Would everyone following the discussion please raise their hands. Thanks, John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From wdhindman at bellsouth.net Sun Mar 28 21:39:40 2004 From: wdhindman at bellsouth.net (William Hindman) Date: Sun, 28 Mar 2004 22:39:40 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Framework Discussion - Another poll References: Message-ID: <002b01c4153f$77889820$6101a8c0@dejpolsys> ...I'm dipping in and out ...and saving them all for when I have time. William Hindman ipsedixitism: something is true because I myself have said it is true ...the philosophy of Noam Chomsky :) ----- Original Message ----- From: "MACE, Terry" To: "'Access Developers discussion and problem solving'" Sent: Sunday, March 28, 2004 10:10 PM Subject: RE: [AccessD] Framework Discussion - Another poll > I'm reading it all though at the moment I don't have time to work through > the examples. > > Terry Mace > > -----Original Message----- > From: John W. Colby [mailto:jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com] > Sent: Wednesday, 24 March 2004 17:10 > To: AccessD > Subject: [AccessD] Framework Discussion - Another poll > > > I need to take another poll. Would everyone following the discussion please > raise their hands. > > Thanks, > > John W. Colby > www.ColbyConsulting.com > > > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > From pedro at plex.nl Mon Mar 29 03:14:45 2004 From: pedro at plex.nl (Pedro Janssen) Date: Mon, 29 Mar 2004 11:14:45 +0200 Subject: [AccessD] error in report solved References: <4067D4D8.10096.12FF38@localhost> Message-ID: <003101c41571$d7196530$f2c581d5@pedro> Hello, i placed the tekst box accidentally on de page footer. Placing it on the report footer gave the right result. Pedro Janssen ----- Original Message ----- From: "Stuart McLachlan" To: "Access Developers discussion and problemsolving" Sent: Sunday, March 28, 2004 11:48 PM Subject: Re: [AccessD] error in report > On 28 Mar 2004 at 17:43, Pedro Janssen wrote: > > > Hello group, > > > > i use an unbound textbox to calculate the total of a number field in a report. I used: =Nz(sum([Name of field])) or =sum([Name of field]). > > When i open the preview i get #error. What is wrong. > > > > Did you originally create the textbox by dragging and dropping the > field into the report? Make sure that the textbox is not named "Name > of field". > > > > > -- > Lexacorp Ltd > http://www.lexacorp.com.pg > Information Technology Consultancy, Software Development,System > Support. > > > > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > From accessd667 at yahoo.com Mon Mar 29 07:46:02 2004 From: accessd667 at yahoo.com (S D) Date: Mon, 29 Mar 2004 05:46:02 -0800 (PST) Subject: [AccessD] Importing data using a Class..Who can help/review? Message-ID: <20040329134602.22843.qmail@web61108.mail.yahoo.com> Hi group, I'm building a little app that is able to import textfiles. I want to do this using a class. I've made a start and it works! Does anybody have the time/interest to shoot at it? It's very basic. I've got: a class called: cInterface a method called: SaveLine TIA Sander --------------------------------- Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Finance Tax Center - File online. File on time. From mwp.reid at qub.ac.uk Mon Mar 29 08:36:04 2004 From: mwp.reid at qub.ac.uk (Martin Reid) Date: Mon, 29 Mar 2004 15:36:04 +0100 Subject: [AccessD] OT Software tools References: <000301c411aa$1d158a80$6401a8c0@COA3> <40638618.8080805@shaw.ca> <1626260251.20040326103055@cactus.dk> Message-ID: <000901c4159b$2a3a1420$9111758f@aine> Someone was looking at finding a way to see which patches ahd been applied to a pc. This tool does that plus a bit more and is free for home use. http://www.belarc.com/free_download.html No connection to the company or the software. Martin From rsmethurst at UK.EY.COM Mon Mar 29 09:15:42 2004 From: rsmethurst at UK.EY.COM (rsmethurst at UK.EY.COM) Date: Mon, 29 Mar 2004 16:15:42 +0100 Subject: [AccessD] Importing data using a Class..Who can help/review? Message-ID: Sure Sander... I will. Cheers Ryan S D Sent by: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com 29/03/2004 14:46 Please respond to Access Developers discussion and problem solving To: accessd cc: Subject: [AccessD] Importing data using a Class..Who can help/review? Hi group, I'm building a little app that is able to import textfiles. I want to do this using a class. I've made a start and it works! Does anybody have the time/interest to shoot at it? It's very basic. I've got: a class called: cInterface a method called: SaveLine TIA Sander --------------------------------- Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Finance Tax Center - File online. File on time. -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com This e-mail and any attachment are confidential and contain proprietary information, some or all of which may be legally privileged. 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A list of members? names is available for inspection at 1 More London Place, London, SE1 2AF, the firm?s principal place of business and its registered office. From DWUTKA at marlow.com Mon Mar 29 09:45:54 2004 From: DWUTKA at marlow.com (DWUTKA at marlow.com) Date: Mon, 29 Mar 2004 09:45:54 -0600 Subject: [AccessD] Lookup Fields in Table Design Message-ID: <2F8793082E00D4119A1700B0D0216BF8022279F8@main2.marlow.com> Sorry for all the posts. I know I didn't write them all, but I am guilty of writing most of the long ones. I'm getting a little tired of it myself. I think I've proven my point. I am just sick and tired of hearing something is 'bad practice', when the mythology behind it is based on misinformation, or simply a lack of understanding. A lot of what has been said (after the original facts were corrected), is that they are just 'dangerous', because if someone doesn't know what they are doing, they could get in trouble with it. To me, that's just malarky. I use stuff all the time, that could be 'dangerous' if not used properly, a LOT more dangerous then lookup fields. That doesn't mean it's bad practice. Once again, sorry for all the posts. At least I've tried to stick to the subject (even changed some of the subject lines!). Drew -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Andy Lacey Sent: Sunday, March 28, 2004 3:55 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: [AccessD] Lookup Fields in Table Design I wish, but I have to mod the damned thing so no I can't just ignore it. But ok, ok if you feel so strongly then I apologise and will just keep on reading. C'est la vie. But just so you don't think I was too quick off the mark I've counted 125 posts so far on this. But what the hell, let it go on. -- Andy Lacey http://www.minstersystems.co.uk > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of > Susan Harkins > Sent: 28 March 2004 19:58 > To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' > Subject: RE: [AccessD] Lookup Fields in Table Design > > > Why do men get so grouchy in their old age? > > Andy and William -- if you don't want to read the thread, can > you not ignore it? Are you trying to tell us that because you > find no value in the discussion, that the discussion is > therefore valueless? I'm sure that's not really what you mean > to say. Ignore the discussion if you're not getting anything > out of it. We all ignore threads all the time. > > Let them hash it out. I'm pretty much done with the thread > myself, but this is the one thing that some of you do that > really annoys me. Leave the thread be. If it's gets off > topic, then kill it. > > FWIW, you probably have pretty much killed it with your > caustic remarks -- I wish you guys wouldn't do that. It > intimidates people. > > Susan H. > > ...ah ...welcome to Florida Andy ...we may not be able to > count votes but, just like the butterfly ballot, we sure as > hell know when something has been beat to death a hundred > times over! :)))))) > > > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/a> ccessd > Website: > http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From DWUTKA at marlow.com Mon Mar 29 09:49:15 2004 From: DWUTKA at marlow.com (DWUTKA at marlow.com) Date: Mon, 29 Mar 2004 09:49:15 -0600 Subject: [AccessD] Lookup Fields in Table Design Message-ID: <2F8793082E00D4119A1700B0D0216BF8022279F9@main2.marlow.com> Doesn't intimidate me. I have the utmost respect for the moderators though, because they have to be impartial. Kind of like being a cop. Sometimes you have to be forceful, when you can absolutely sympathize with the people you are trying to help. I just hope that people starting out in Access read the thread, and realize that not everything that is 'recommended' about Access is based on fact. That their goal in their development career should be to learn everything that they can with the development tool of their choice, and not just take things at face value. Drew -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Susan Harkins Sent: Sunday, March 28, 2004 12:58 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: [AccessD] Lookup Fields in Table Design Why do men get so grouchy in their old age? Andy and William -- if you don't want to read the thread, can you not ignore it? Are you trying to tell us that because you find no value in the discussion, that the discussion is therefore valueless? I'm sure that's not really what you mean to say. Ignore the discussion if you're not getting anything out of it. We all ignore threads all the time. Let them hash it out. I'm pretty much done with the thread myself, but this is the one thing that some of you do that really annoys me. Leave the thread be. If it's gets off topic, then kill it. FWIW, you probably have pretty much killed it with your caustic remarks -- I wish you guys wouldn't do that. It intimidates people. Susan H. ...ah ...welcome to Florida Andy ...we may not be able to count votes but, just like the butterfly ballot, we sure as hell know when something has been beat to death a hundred times over! :)))))) -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From DWUTKA at marlow.com Mon Mar 29 09:50:57 2004 From: DWUTKA at marlow.com (DWUTKA at marlow.com) Date: Mon, 29 Mar 2004 09:50:57 -0600 Subject: [AccessD] Lookup Fields in Table Design Message-ID: <2F8793082E00D4119A1700B0D0216BF8022279FA@main2.marlow.com> I don't know William. I have a lot of respect for you, so I could be intimidated by you, if you choose to apply yourself that way. As for the caustic stuff.......um....no comment. LOL Drew -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of William Hindman Sent: Sunday, March 28, 2004 1:57 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Lookup Fields in Table Design ...lol ...can anyone imagine me "intimidating" Drew, JC, or John? :) ...and "caustic"? ...me? ...I mean we're talking JC here ...and Drew ...and ...well, you get the idea ...pros! :) William Hindman ipsedixitism: something is true because I myself have said it is true ...the philosophy of Noam Chomsky :) ----- Original Message ----- From: "John W. Colby" To: "Access Developers discussion and problem solving" Sent: Sunday, March 28, 2004 2:10 PM Subject: RE: [AccessD] Lookup Fields in Table Design > >FWIW, you probably have pretty much killed it with your caustic remarks -- > I wish you guys wouldn't do that. It intimidates people. > > As one who loves to beat a subject to death myself, I couldn't agree more. > > > > John W. Colby > www.ColbyConsulting.com > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Susan Harkins > Sent: Sunday, March 28, 2004 1:58 PM > To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' > Subject: RE: [AccessD] Lookup Fields in Table Design > > > Why do men get so grouchy in their old age? > > Andy and William -- if you don't want to read the thread, can you not ignore > it? Are you trying to tell us that because you find no value in the > discussion, that the discussion is therefore valueless? I'm sure that's not > really what you mean to say. Ignore the discussion if you're not getting > anything out of it. We all ignore threads all the time. > > Let them hash it out. I'm pretty much done with the thread myself, but this > is the one thing that some of you do that really annoys me. Leave the thread > be. If it's gets off topic, then kill it. > > FWIW, you probably have pretty much killed it with your caustic remarks -- I > wish you guys wouldn't do that. It intimidates people. > > Susan H. > > ...ah ...welcome to Florida Andy ...we may not be able to count votes but, > just like the butterfly ballot, we sure as hell know when something has been > beat to death a hundred times over! :)))))) > > > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From serbach at new.rr.com Mon Mar 29 10:16:10 2004 From: serbach at new.rr.com (Steven W. Erbach) Date: Mon, 29 Mar 2004 10:16:10 -0600 Subject: [AccessD] OT: A survey from somebody not as well-connected as JC Message-ID: <20040329101610.2131078867.serbach@new.rr.com> Dear Group, This is for the independent developers only. If you work for a company and you'd like to take the survey, just let me know that you're not an independent developer when you reply. I'm curious about what you independent developers have had to learn to keep up with the changing marketplace. 1) If you've managed to maintain a significant clientele by developing Access applications, what have you done to sharpen your skills to make you more attractive as the developer of choice in a competitive field? That is, have you developed a framework like JC, or have you gone more towards developing front ends for SQL back ends like Arthur? 2) If you've moved away from Access development as your primary source of income, what other platforms have you learned to make a living? Do you now do mostly .NET development, ASP, SQL Server, PHP, what? 3) If you're doing .NET development, what kind of things are you doing? Has it lived up to the hype? Last year about this time I was searching the want ads for positions before I decided to stick with my own business. I was amused by the ads that profiled the "ideal" candidate as one who had deep .NET experience. The stinking product had only officially been on the market for one whole year with another year in beta before that. Sheesh! Have you seen any real live .NET implementations that are worth bragging about...or have you created any? In short, what have you had to do to make yourself useful as an independent developer? I know that William works quite a bit with SBS and LANs. Have any of you developed proficiency with cabling and routers and such to increase your marketability? Do you do any security consulting, say? Do you build custom-order PCs? Do you do LAN management, e-mail server management and setup, web site development? One final thing: Years ago when I started I took advantage of the swing of the pendulum that put PC power in users' hands. That is, the PC was a great analysis tool for mainframe data. Lotus 1-2-3, dBASE III, Paradox, etc., were the tools that enabled users and departments to fiddle with the data without having to wait for the IT department to get around to their little pissant application requests. Now the pendulum has swung the other way. Security concerns and scalability and distributed networks / VPNs and web-based database applications have all made the pendulum swing back towards centralized control...and the IT guys are loving it. Or am I reading it wrong? What do you think? Regards, Steve Erbach Scientific Marketing Neenah, WI 920-969-0504 Security and Virus information: http://www.swerbach.com/security From DWUTKA at marlow.com Mon Mar 29 11:22:50 2004 From: DWUTKA at marlow.com (DWUTKA at marlow.com) Date: Mon, 29 Mar 2004 11:22:50 -0600 Subject: [AccessD] OT: A survey from somebody not as well-connected as JC Message-ID: <2F8793082E00D4119A1700B0D0216BF8022279FE@main2.marlow.com> I work full time for a company, but I do indepentent work on the side. So I'm a mutt! LOL 1: Quite frankly, haven't developed many 'tools' to help my development. Most of the projects I get for independent work are usually too unique to create 'development' tools for them. 2: Most of my independent stuff is a mix. It's about half Access, and half VB/ASP. Has been that way for a while. 3: Haven't gotten into .Net. Two reasons. No 'free' money to buy it, but more importantly, have yet to have a project come my way that I couldn't develop with my current tools. As for your pendulum comments, I know what you mean, and it swings all over the place. However, from the jobs I've been getting, stuff that is moved to the web usually has more to do with the user base, then it does with security. Most web applications I build are for customers that either are trying to hit internet users in general, or they need a platform that is easily accessible to their employees all over the world (which just lends itself to interent or extranet applications). Drew -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Steven W. Erbach Sent: Monday, March 29, 2004 10:16 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: [AccessD] OT: A survey from somebody not as well-connected as JC Dear Group, This is for the independent developers only. If you work for a company and you'd like to take the survey, just let me know that you're not an independent developer when you reply. I'm curious about what you independent developers have had to learn to keep up with the changing marketplace. 1) If you've managed to maintain a significant clientele by developing Access applications, what have you done to sharpen your skills to make you more attractive as the developer of choice in a competitive field? That is, have you developed a framework like JC, or have you gone more towards developing front ends for SQL back ends like Arthur? 2) If you've moved away from Access development as your primary source of income, what other platforms have you learned to make a living? Do you now do mostly .NET development, ASP, SQL Server, PHP, what? 3) If you're doing .NET development, what kind of things are you doing? Has it lived up to the hype? Last year about this time I was searching the want ads for positions before I decided to stick with my own business. I was amused by the ads that profiled the "ideal" candidate as one who had deep .NET experience. The stinking product had only officially been on the market for one whole year with another year in beta before that. Sheesh! Have you seen any real live .NET implementations that are worth bragging about...or have you created any? In short, what have you had to do to make yourself useful as an independent developer? I know that William works quite a bit with SBS and LANs. Have any of you developed proficiency with cabling and routers and such to increase your marketability? Do you do any security consulting, say? Do you build custom-order PCs? Do you do LAN management, e-mail server management and setup, web site development? One final thing: Years ago when I started I took advantage of the swing of the pendulum that put PC power in users' hands. That is, the PC was a great analysis tool for mainframe data. Lotus 1-2-3, dBASE III, Paradox, etc., were the tools that enabled users and departments to fiddle with the data without having to wait for the IT department to get around to their little pissant application requests. Now the pendulum has swung the other way. Security concerns and scalability and distributed networks / VPNs and web-based database applications have all made the pendulum swing back towards centralized control...and the IT guys are loving it. Or am I reading it wrong? What do you think? Regards, Steve Erbach Scientific Marketing Neenah, WI 920-969-0504 Security and Virus information: http://www.swerbach.com/security -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From martyconnelly at shaw.ca Mon Mar 29 11:27:42 2004 From: martyconnelly at shaw.ca (MartyConnelly) Date: Mon, 29 Mar 2004 09:27:42 -0800 Subject: [AccessD] OT Software tools References: <000301c411aa$1d158a80$6401a8c0@COA3> <40638618.8080805@shaw.ca> <1626260251.20040326103055@cactus.dk> <000901c4159b$2a3a1420$9111758f@aine> Message-ID: <40685C8E.8010804@shaw.ca> This is one way of doing some of the same things yourself from Access, It displays the result in an IE window. but I haven't found where all the EventCodes are defined for WMIService 'needs reference set to WMI extension library and WMI cntl library Sub testIE() '------------------ 'http://www.microsoft.com/technet/treeview/default.asp?url=/technet/scriptcenter/logs/scrlog08.asp 'displays to IE Dim objExplorer As Object Dim objDocument As Object Dim strComputer As String Dim objWMIService As Object Dim colLoggedEvents As Object Dim objEvent As Object Dim dtmDate As Variant Dim strReturn As String Set objExplorer = CreateObject("InternetExplorer.Application") objExplorer.Navigate "about:blank" objExplorer.Toolbar = 0 objExplorer.StatusBar = 0 objExplorer.Width = 800 objExplorer.Height = 570 objExplorer.Left = 0 objExplorer.Top = 0 objExplorer.Visible = 1 Do While (objExplorer.Busy) Loop Set objDocument = objExplorer.Document objDocument.Open objDocument.Writeln "Automatic Updates Installation History" objDocument.Writeln "" objDocument.Writeln "" objDocument.Writeln "" objDocument.Writeln "" objDocument.Writeln "" objDocument.Writeln "" objDocument.Writeln "" strComputer = "." Set objWMIService = GetObject("winmgmts:" _ & "{impersonationLevel=impersonate}!\\" & strComputer & "\root\cimv2") 'IE Event code=19 WinXP=4377 Set colLoggedEvents = objWMIService.ExecQuery _ ("SELECT * FROM Win32_NTLogEvent WHERE Logfile = 'System' AND " _ & "EventCode = '19' OR EventCode = '4377'") Dim i As Long For Each objEvent In colLoggedEvents dtmDate = objEvent.TimeWritten strReturn = WMIDateStringTodate(dtmDate) objDocument.Writeln "" objDocument.Writeln "" objDocument.Writeln "" objDocument.Writeln "" objDocument.Writeln "" i = i + 1 Next Debug.Print "no of events=" & i objDocument.Writeln "
Computer NameInstalled Update(s)Date and Time Installed
" & objEvent.ComputerName & "" & objEvent.Message & "" & strReturn & "
" objDocument.Writeln "" 'objDocument.Write() objDocument.Close MsgBox "finished" Set objExplorer = Nothing Set objDocument = Nothing Set objWMIService = Nothing Set colLoggedEvents = Nothing Set objEvent = Nothing End Sub Function WMIDateStringTodate(dtmDate) WMIDateStringTodate = CDate(Mid(dtmDate, 5, 2) & "/" & _ Mid(dtmDate, 7, 2) & "/" & Left(dtmDate, 4) _ & " " & Mid(dtmDate, 9, 2) & ":" & _ Mid(dtmDate, 11, 2) & ":" & Mid(dtmDate, _ 13, 2)) End Function 'or you can run this for window hotfixes Function hotfix(Optional strComputerName = "Local") As String Dim objWMIService As Object Dim colItems As Object Dim objItem As Object Dim colQuickFixes As Object Dim objQuickFix As Object Dim strComputer As String Dim strMsg As String ' Check command line parameters Select Case strComputerName Case "Local" ' Default if none specified is local computer (".") Set objWMIService = GetObject("winmgmts://./root/cimv2") Set colItems = objWMIService.ExecQuery("Select * from Win32_ComputerSystem", , 48) For Each objItem In colItems strComputer = objItem.Name Next Case Else ' Command line parameter can either be a computer name ' or "/?" to request online help strComputer = strComputerName If InStr(strComputer, "?") > 0 Then Syntax End Select ' Header line for screen output strMsg = vbCrLf & "Hotfixes installed on " & strComputer & ":" & vbCrLf & vbCrLf ' Enable error handling On Error Resume Next ' Connect to specified computer Set objWMIService = GetObject("winmgmts:{impersonationLevel=impersonate}!//" & strComputer & "/root/cimv2") ' Display error number and description if applicable If Err Then ShowError ' Query hotfixes Set colQuickFixes = objWMIService.ExecQuery("Select * from Win32_QuickFixEngineering") ' Display error number and description if applicable If Err Then ShowError ' Prepare display of results For Each objQuickFix In colQuickFixes strMsg = strMsg _ & " Description: " _ & objQuickFix.Description & vbCrLf _ & " Hot Fix ID: " _ & objQuickFix.HotFixID _ & " Installation Date: " _ & objQuickFix.InstallDate _ & " Installed By: " _ & objQuickFix.InstalledBy & vbCrLf & vbCrLf Next ' Display results strMsg = strMsg & vbCrLf & strMsg hotfix = strMsg Set objWMIService = Nothing Set colItems = Nothing Set objItem = Nothing Set colQuickFixes = Nothing Set objQuickFix = Nothing 'Done End Function Sub ShowError() Dim strMsg As String strMsg = vbCrLf & "Error # " & Err.Number & vbCrLf & _ Err.Description & vbCrLf & vbCrLf Debug.Print strMsg MsgBox strMsg Syntax End Sub 'or to display all software installed this will return a very long string 'and will overflow a text box. Function software() As String Dim strComputer As String Dim objWMIService As Object Dim colFeatures As Object Dim objFeature As Object Dim strMsg As String Dim lFeatureCount As Long strComputer = "." Set objWMIService = GetObject("winmgmts:" _ & "{impersonationLevel=impersonate}!\\" & strComputer & "\root\cimv2") Set colFeatures = objWMIService.ExecQuery _ ("Select * from Win32_SoftwareFeature") strMsg = "" lFeatureCount = 0 For Each objFeature In colFeatures lFeatureCount = lFeatureCount + 1 Debug.Print "Accesses: " & objFeature.Accesses Debug.Print "Attributes: " & objFeature.Attributes Debug.Print "Caption: " & objFeature.Caption Debug.Print "Description: " & objFeature.Description Debug.Print "Identifying Number: " & objFeature.IdentifyingNumber Debug.Print "Install Date: " & objFeature.InstallDate Debug.Print "Install State: " & objFeature.InstallState Debug.Print "LastUse: " & objFeature.LastUse Debug.Print "Name: " & objFeature.Name Debug.Print "ProductName: " & objFeature.ProductName Debug.Print "Vendor: " & objFeature.Vendor Debug.Print "Version: " & objFeature.Version strMsg = strMsg & vbCrLf & "Accesses: " & objFeature.Accesses strMsg = strMsg & vbCrLf & "Attributes: " & objFeature.Attributes strMsg = strMsg & vbCrLf & "Caption: " & objFeature.Caption strMsg = strMsg & vbCrLf & "Description: " & objFeature.Description strMsg = strMsg & vbCrLf & "Identifying Number: " & objFeature.IdentifyingNumber strMsg = strMsg & vbCrLf & "Install Date: " & objFeature.InstallDate strMsg = strMsg & vbCrLf & "Install State: " & objFeature.InstallState strMsg = strMsg & vbCrLf & "LastUse: " & objFeature.LastUse strMsg = strMsg & vbCrLf & "Name: " & objFeature.Name strMsg = strMsg & vbCrLf & "ProductName: " & objFeature.ProductName strMsg = strMsg & vbCrLf & "Vendor: " & objFeature.Vendor strMsg = strMsg & vbCrLf & "Version: " & objFeature.Version Next software = strMsg MsgBox "Software features=" & lFeatureCount End Function Martin Reid wrote: >Someone was looking at finding a way to see which patches ahd been applied >to a pc. This tool does that plus a bit more and is free for home use. > >http://www.belarc.com/free_download.html > > >No connection to the company or the software. > > >Martin > > > -- Marty Connelly Victoria, B.C. Canada From john at winhaven.net Mon Mar 29 11:57:37 2004 From: john at winhaven.net (John Bartow) Date: Mon, 29 Mar 2004 11:57:37 -0600 Subject: [AccessD] Lookup Fields in Table Design In-Reply-To: <2F8793082E00D4119A1700B0D0216BF8022279F9@main2.marlow.com> Message-ID: Dittos - exactly my point too. And I want to thank everyone who helped out in the discussion - "nay-sayers" and "sayers" alike! Without a quality discussion between people who disagree on the matter I would have learned very little and the archives would have just been cluttered up with flames. It was an eye opener for me since I had been the one who had assumed there was something terribly wrong with using the lookup property. My assumption was not even based on what was eventually brought as the problem. I had assumed the whole buggaboo was about using delimited lists as the default lookup. The one time I did use the lookup property it seemed to be the only reasonable way to handle the situation (it was specified that the users were to be given free reign to the database window). It bugged me that I had used it since so many people had recommended against it. Now I feel totally justified about doing it the way I did. I used defined queries based on the normalized relationships that existed in the database as the default lookup property. This is what should have been used even if the defaults were not set up. The only difference lies in the fact that it saves steps when adding controls to forms and - the reason I did it - it uses the correct lookup values displayed in the data sheets so some user isn't going to come along and try and type auto numbers in and miss by one or two digits. If anyone ever changes the structure they should certainly check to make sure the queries all work properly so it shouldn't even cause problems for some of the more extreme cases that were brought up. So William and Andy - to make up for your inconvenience I'll buy you a mug or two when you stop in to Winneconne someday :o) John I just hope that people starting out in Access read the thread, and realize that not everything that is 'recommended' about Access is based on fact. That their goal in their development career should be to learn everything that they can with the development tool of their choice, and not just take things at face value. Drew From DWUTKA at marlow.com Mon Mar 29 12:54:11 2004 From: DWUTKA at marlow.com (DWUTKA at marlow.com) Date: Mon, 29 Mar 2004 12:54:11 -0600 Subject: [AccessD] Lookup Fields in Table Design Message-ID: <2F8793082E00D4119A1700B0D0216BF802227A00@main2.marlow.com> And that is exactly why I jumped into the thread. There are a lot of 'myths' about Access. Most of them are perpetuated by personal preferences, rather then actual issues. In your case, of a value list, there is NO drawback, because the value list would just import or link without a hitch, and server side db's would just ignore them if imported. However, you are a good example of why I posted what I did, because you were under the impression that it was wrong to use them. That was just mis-information. Drew -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of John Bartow Sent: Monday, March 29, 2004 11:58 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] Lookup Fields in Table Design Dittos - exactly my point too. And I want to thank everyone who helped out in the discussion - "nay-sayers" and "sayers" alike! Without a quality discussion between people who disagree on the matter I would have learned very little and the archives would have just been cluttered up with flames. It was an eye opener for me since I had been the one who had assumed there was something terribly wrong with using the lookup property. My assumption was not even based on what was eventually brought as the problem. I had assumed the whole buggaboo was about using delimited lists as the default lookup. The one time I did use the lookup property it seemed to be the only reasonable way to handle the situation (it was specified that the users were to be given free reign to the database window). It bugged me that I had used it since so many people had recommended against it. Now I feel totally justified about doing it the way I did. I used defined queries based on the normalized relationships that existed in the database as the default lookup property. This is what should have been used even if the defaults were not set up. The only difference lies in the fact that it saves steps when adding controls to forms and - the reason I did it - it uses the correct lookup values displayed in the data sheets so some user isn't going to come along and try and type auto numbers in and miss by one or two digits. If anyone ever changes the structure they should certainly check to make sure the queries all work properly so it shouldn't even cause problems for some of the more extreme cases that were brought up. So William and Andy - to make up for your inconvenience I'll buy you a mug or two when you stop in to Winneconne someday :o) John I just hope that people starting out in Access read the thread, and realize that not everything that is 'recommended' about Access is based on fact. That their goal in their development career should be to learn everything that they can with the development tool of their choice, and not just take things at face value. Drew -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From serbach at new.rr.com Mon Mar 29 13:12:10 2004 From: serbach at new.rr.com (Steven W. Erbach) Date: Mon, 29 Mar 2004 13:12:10 -0600 Subject: [AccessD] OT: A survey from somebody not as well-connected as JC Message-ID: <20040329131210.1011354720.serbach@new.rr.com> Drew, I appreciate your input. >> Quite frankly, haven't developed many 'tools' to help my development. Most of the projects I get for independent work are usually too unique to create 'development' tools for them. << I use a number of packaged "tools" for most of my projects now that I've collected over the years. Things like Database Creations' Report Manager Pro for making custom report management manageable; Tribble Software's Table Linker; a LAN version management tool from an Access developer in Chile whose name I've forgotten; FMS Total Visual Sourcebook to add functions I don't want to code myself like file dialog boxes and such. I'm hoping to incorporate the Back End Updater very soon. And I'm following John Colby's framework discussion with great interest (I've got 150 pages of messages and replies in a WordPerfect outline to keep the threads straight). >> have yet to have a project come my way that I couldn't develop with my current tools. << As Captain Jack Sparrow says in 'Pirates of the Caribbean,' "That's interesting. That's very interesting." Have you any feel for how .NET is penetrating company operations or the Internet as a whole? >> or they need a platform that is easily accessible to their employees all over the world << Makes sense. Thanks again. Regards, Steve Erbach Scientific Marketing Neenah, WI "You must be an intellectual. No normal person would say a thing like that." - George Orwell From DWUTKA at marlow.com Mon Mar 29 13:20:28 2004 From: DWUTKA at marlow.com (DWUTKA at marlow.com) Date: Mon, 29 Mar 2004 13:20:28 -0600 Subject: [AccessD] OT: A survey from somebody not as well-connected as JC Message-ID: <2F8793082E00D4119A1700B0D0216BF802227A01@main2.marlow.com> Quite frankly, from my perspective, .Net is a lot like Lotus Notes. I know it's out there. I know people use it. I know it does what it's designed to do. But, other then that, it has little affect/interest with me, because I just haven't had anyone tell me something has to be developed in it, nor have I had to use it for it's capabilities. Drew -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Steven W. Erbach Sent: Monday, March 29, 2004 1:12 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] OT: A survey from somebody not as well-connected as JC >> have yet to have a project come my way that I couldn't develop with my current tools. << As Captain Jack Sparrow says in 'Pirates of the Caribbean,' "That's interesting. That's very interesting." Have you any feel for how .NET is penetrating company operations or the Internet as a whole? From cfoust at infostatsystems.com Mon Mar 29 13:22:20 2004 From: cfoust at infostatsystems.com (Charlotte Foust) Date: Mon, 29 Mar 2004 11:22:20 -0800 Subject: [AccessD] Lookup Fields in Table Design Message-ID: NOT! That's your opinion, Drew. Not sacred writ. Try not to get them confused. Charlotte Foust -----Original Message----- From: DWUTKA at marlow.com [mailto:DWUTKA at marlow.com] Sent: Monday, March 29, 2004 10:54 AM To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: RE: [AccessD] Lookup Fields in Table Design And that is exactly why I jumped into the thread. There are a lot of 'myths' about Access. Most of them are perpetuated by personal preferences, rather then actual issues. In your case, of a value list, there is NO drawback, because the value list would just import or link without a hitch, and server side db's would just ignore them if imported. However, you are a good example of why I posted what I did, because you were under the impression that it was wrong to use them. That was just mis-information. Drew -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of John Bartow Sent: Monday, March 29, 2004 11:58 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] Lookup Fields in Table Design Dittos - exactly my point too. And I want to thank everyone who helped out in the discussion - "nay-sayers" and "sayers" alike! Without a quality discussion between people who disagree on the matter I would have learned very little and the archives would have just been cluttered up with flames. It was an eye opener for me since I had been the one who had assumed there was something terribly wrong with using the lookup property. My assumption was not even based on what was eventually brought as the problem. I had assumed the whole buggaboo was about using delimited lists as the default lookup. The one time I did use the lookup property it seemed to be the only reasonable way to handle the situation (it was specified that the users were to be given free reign to the database window). It bugged me that I had used it since so many people had recommended against it. Now I feel totally justified about doing it the way I did. I used defined queries based on the normalized relationships that existed in the database as the default lookup property. This is what should have been used even if the defaults were not set up. The only difference lies in the fact that it saves steps when adding controls to forms and - the reason I did it - it uses the correct lookup values displayed in the data sheets so some user isn't going to come along and try and type auto numbers in and miss by one or two digits. If anyone ever changes the structure they should certainly check to make sure the queries all work properly so it shouldn't even cause problems for some of the more extreme cases that were brought up. So William and Andy - to make up for your inconvenience I'll buy you a mug or two when you stop in to Winneconne someday :o) John I just hope that people starting out in Access read the thread, and realize that not everything that is 'recommended' about Access is based on fact. That their goal in their development career should be to learn everything that they can with the development tool of their choice, and not just take things at face value. Drew -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From Bryan_Carbonnell at cbc.ca Mon Mar 29 13:28:32 2004 From: Bryan_Carbonnell at cbc.ca (Bryan Carbonnell) Date: Mon, 29 Mar 2004 14:28:32 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] OT: A survey from somebody not as well-connected as JC Message-ID: Lotus Notes does what it's designed too?? Obviously you haven't used it :) I certainly doesn't do that. Well unless it was designed to frustrate the user and make a simple task difficult :-) I use it everyday and can't wait until it gets replaced. Bryan Carbonnell bryan_carbonnell at cbc.ca >>> DWUTKA at marlow.com 29-Mar-04 2:20:28 PM >>> Quite frankly, from my perspective, .Net is a lot like Lotus Notes. I know it's out there. I know people use it. I know it does what it's designed to do. But, other then that, it has little affect/interest with me, because I just haven't had anyone tell me something has to be developed in it, nor have I had to use it for it's capabilities. From DWUTKA at marlow.com Mon Mar 29 13:31:13 2004 From: DWUTKA at marlow.com (DWUTKA at marlow.com) Date: Mon, 29 Mar 2004 13:31:13 -0600 Subject: [AccessD] Lookup Fields in Table Design Message-ID: <2F8793082E00D4119A1700B0D0216BF802227A02@main2.marlow.com> What's my opinion? The 'nay-sayers' have not shown a good valid reason why it is 'wrong' to use them. All evidence points to the fact that they do their job, and if you know what you are doing, then use them if you want. I have been reading all of the posts on this thread, have ya'all actually posted a valid 'doomsday' catch all, that I missed? Drew -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Charlotte Foust Sent: Monday, March 29, 2004 1:22 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] Lookup Fields in Table Design NOT! That's your opinion, Drew. Not sacred writ. Try not to get them confused. Charlotte Foust -----Original Message----- From: DWUTKA at marlow.com [mailto:DWUTKA at marlow.com] Sent: Monday, March 29, 2004 10:54 AM To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: RE: [AccessD] Lookup Fields in Table Design And that is exactly why I jumped into the thread. There are a lot of 'myths' about Access. Most of them are perpetuated by personal preferences, rather then actual issues. In your case, of a value list, there is NO drawback, because the value list would just import or link without a hitch, and server side db's would just ignore them if imported. However, you are a good example of why I posted what I did, because you were under the impression that it was wrong to use them. That was just mis-information. Drew -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of John Bartow Sent: Monday, March 29, 2004 11:58 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] Lookup Fields in Table Design Dittos - exactly my point too. And I want to thank everyone who helped out in the discussion - "nay-sayers" and "sayers" alike! Without a quality discussion between people who disagree on the matter I would have learned very little and the archives would have just been cluttered up with flames. It was an eye opener for me since I had been the one who had assumed there was something terribly wrong with using the lookup property. My assumption was not even based on what was eventually brought as the problem. I had assumed the whole buggaboo was about using delimited lists as the default lookup. The one time I did use the lookup property it seemed to be the only reasonable way to handle the situation (it was specified that the users were to be given free reign to the database window). It bugged me that I had used it since so many people had recommended against it. Now I feel totally justified about doing it the way I did. I used defined queries based on the normalized relationships that existed in the database as the default lookup property. This is what should have been used even if the defaults were not set up. The only difference lies in the fact that it saves steps when adding controls to forms and - the reason I did it - it uses the correct lookup values displayed in the data sheets so some user isn't going to come along and try and type auto numbers in and miss by one or two digits. If anyone ever changes the structure they should certainly check to make sure the queries all work properly so it shouldn't even cause problems for some of the more extreme cases that were brought up. So William and Andy - to make up for your inconvenience I'll buy you a mug or two when you stop in to Winneconne someday :o) John I just hope that people starting out in Access read the thread, and realize that not everything that is 'recommended' about Access is based on fact. That their goal in their development career should be to learn everything that they can with the development tool of their choice, and not just take things at face value. Drew -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From mwp.reid at qub.ac.uk Mon Mar 29 13:47:00 2004 From: mwp.reid at qub.ac.uk (Martin Reid) Date: Mon, 29 Mar 2004 20:47:00 +0100 Subject: [AccessD] Slightly OT References: <000301c411aa$1d158a80$6401a8c0@COA3> <40638618.8080805@shaw.ca><1626260251.20040326103055@cactus.dk><000901c4159b$2a3a1420$9111758f@aine> <40685C8E.8010804@shaw.ca> Message-ID: <003101c415c6$9b04d6b0$1b02a8c0@MARTINREID> Comments We want to take a couple of hundred Access databases and move them to SQL Server. WHat sort of problems do you see in terms of Performance Security Re design Backup Staffing in terms of DBAs anything else??? Martin From DWUTKA at marlow.com Mon Mar 29 13:47:49 2004 From: DWUTKA at marlow.com (DWUTKA at marlow.com) Date: Mon, 29 Mar 2004 13:47:49 -0600 Subject: [AccessD] OT: A survey from somebody not as well-connected as JC Message-ID: <2F8793082E00D4119A1700B0D0216BF802227A03@main2.marlow.com> I have used it. Probably a bad example. Drew -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Bryan Carbonnell Sent: Monday, March 29, 2004 1:29 PM To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: RE: [AccessD] OT: A survey from somebody not as well-connected as JC Lotus Notes does what it's designed too?? Obviously you haven't used it :) I certainly doesn't do that. Well unless it was designed to frustrate the user and make a simple task difficult :-) I use it everyday and can't wait until it gets replaced. Bryan Carbonnell bryan_carbonnell at cbc.ca >>> DWUTKA at marlow.com 29-Mar-04 2:20:28 PM >>> Quite frankly, from my perspective, .Net is a lot like Lotus Notes. I know it's out there. I know people use it. I know it does what it's designed to do. But, other then that, it has little affect/interest with me, because I just haven't had anyone tell me something has to be developed in it, nor have I had to use it for it's capabilities. -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From serbach at new.rr.com Mon Mar 29 13:53:16 2004 From: serbach at new.rr.com (Steven W. Erbach) Date: Mon, 29 Mar 2004 13:53:16 -0600 Subject: [AccessD] OT: A survey from somebody not as well-connected as JC Message-ID: <20040329135316.1863005985.serbach@new.rr.com> Bryan, >> I use it everyday and can't wait until it gets replaced. << [chuckle!] Why, Bryan! How you talk! You mean that all that hype and buildup and promise ain't worth a hill o' beans? I've got two clients that are using it. I don't hear too much groaning, but I'm not listening too closely. Regards, Steve Erbach Scientific Marketing Neenah, WI 920-969-0504 Security and Virus information: http://www.swerbach.com/security From cfoust at infostatsystems.com Mon Mar 29 14:42:23 2004 From: cfoust at infostatsystems.com (Charlotte Foust) Date: Mon, 29 Mar 2004 12:42:23 -0800 Subject: [AccessD] OT: A survey from somebody not as well-connected as JC Message-ID: LOL! I've never met anyone who had to use Lotus Notes that liked it. Charlotte Foust -----Original Message----- From: Bryan Carbonnell [mailto:Bryan_Carbonnell at cbc.ca] Sent: Monday, March 29, 2004 11:29 AM To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: RE: [AccessD] OT: A survey from somebody not as well-connected as JC Lotus Notes does what it's designed too?? Obviously you haven't used it :) I certainly doesn't do that. Well unless it was designed to frustrate the user and make a simple task difficult :-) I use it everyday and can't wait until it gets replaced. Bryan Carbonnell bryan_carbonnell at cbc.ca >>> DWUTKA at marlow.com 29-Mar-04 2:20:28 PM >>> Quite frankly, from my perspective, .Net is a lot like Lotus Notes. I know it's out there. I know people use it. I know it does what it's designed to do. But, other then that, it has little affect/interest with me, because I just haven't had anyone tell me something has to be developed in it, nor have I had to use it for it's capabilities. -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From cfoust at infostatsystems.com Mon Mar 29 14:43:44 2004 From: cfoust at infostatsystems.com (Charlotte Foust) Date: Mon, 29 Mar 2004 12:43:44 -0800 Subject: [AccessD] Lookup Fields in Table Design Message-ID: Forget it. You insist that your opinion carried the day. Go right ahead and believe it, but don't expect everyone else to agree. Charlotte Foust -----Original Message----- From: DWUTKA at marlow.com [mailto:DWUTKA at marlow.com] Sent: Monday, March 29, 2004 11:31 AM To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: RE: [AccessD] Lookup Fields in Table Design What's my opinion? The 'nay-sayers' have not shown a good valid reason why it is 'wrong' to use them. All evidence points to the fact that they do their job, and if you know what you are doing, then use them if you want. I have been reading all of the posts on this thread, have ya'all actually posted a valid 'doomsday' catch all, that I missed? Drew -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Charlotte Foust Sent: Monday, March 29, 2004 1:22 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] Lookup Fields in Table Design NOT! That's your opinion, Drew. Not sacred writ. Try not to get them confused. Charlotte Foust -----Original Message----- From: DWUTKA at marlow.com [mailto:DWUTKA at marlow.com] Sent: Monday, March 29, 2004 10:54 AM To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: RE: [AccessD] Lookup Fields in Table Design And that is exactly why I jumped into the thread. There are a lot of 'myths' about Access. Most of them are perpetuated by personal preferences, rather then actual issues. In your case, of a value list, there is NO drawback, because the value list would just import or link without a hitch, and server side db's would just ignore them if imported. However, you are a good example of why I posted what I did, because you were under the impression that it was wrong to use them. That was just mis-information. Drew -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of John Bartow Sent: Monday, March 29, 2004 11:58 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] Lookup Fields in Table Design Dittos - exactly my point too. And I want to thank everyone who helped out in the discussion - "nay-sayers" and "sayers" alike! Without a quality discussion between people who disagree on the matter I would have learned very little and the archives would have just been cluttered up with flames. It was an eye opener for me since I had been the one who had assumed there was something terribly wrong with using the lookup property. My assumption was not even based on what was eventually brought as the problem. I had assumed the whole buggaboo was about using delimited lists as the default lookup. The one time I did use the lookup property it seemed to be the only reasonable way to handle the situation (it was specified that the users were to be given free reign to the database window). It bugged me that I had used it since so many people had recommended against it. Now I feel totally justified about doing it the way I did. I used defined queries based on the normalized relationships that existed in the database as the default lookup property. This is what should have been used even if the defaults were not set up. The only difference lies in the fact that it saves steps when adding controls to forms and - the reason I did it - it uses the correct lookup values displayed in the data sheets so some user isn't going to come along and try and type auto numbers in and miss by one or two digits. If anyone ever changes the structure they should certainly check to make sure the queries all work properly so it shouldn't even cause problems for some of the more extreme cases that were brought up. So William and Andy - to make up for your inconvenience I'll buy you a mug or two when you stop in to Winneconne someday :o) John I just hope that people starting out in Access read the thread, and realize that not everything that is 'recommended' about Access is based on fact. That their goal in their development career should be to learn everything that they can with the development tool of their choice, and not just take things at face value. Drew -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From john at winhaven.net Mon Mar 29 15:16:06 2004 From: john at winhaven.net (John Bartow) Date: Mon, 29 Mar 2004 15:16:06 -0600 Subject: [AccessD] Lookup Fields in Table Design In-Reply-To: Message-ID: I started the thread decidely not using lookup properties for the past 5 years because of the overwhelming attitude among developers that it shouldn't be used. (IIRC that's when I first read Dev's "10 Commandments".) I had no "side" in this debate other than pointing out weaknesses I saw in specific arguments (and being "cutesy" at times) Rarely is someone go to fully switch "sides" in a debate. (So I don't expect everyone to agree with me.) I believe that, based on this thread, the people who argued that it is OK to use lookup properties have won the day. Unless someone comes up with a solid reason why it should never be used I will not hesitate to use it again when the situation warrants. I challenge anyone to use facts to convince me otherwise. In fact I would very much appreciate it. And I'll buy you a few if you can do so! John "always open to the facts" Bartow -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Charlotte Foust Sent: Monday, March 29, 2004 2:44 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] Lookup Fields in Table Design Forget it. You insist that your opinion carried the day. Go right ahead and believe it, but don't expect everyone else to agree. Charlotte Foust From DWUTKA at marlow.com Mon Mar 29 15:27:27 2004 From: DWUTKA at marlow.com (DWUTKA at marlow.com) Date: Mon, 29 Mar 2004 15:27:27 -0600 Subject: [AccessD] Lookup Fields in Table Design Message-ID: <2F8793082E00D4119A1700B0D0216BF802227A0B@main2.marlow.com> Charlotte, that's not very nice. I have tested everything that you and Ken posted about this, as far as performance and bloat. Neither of those were true, and I posted step by steps on what I did to test it, and provided code when necessary. Space used by the Lookup fields is no more then if you just setup a relationship. And that is if you are using a lookup table/query. If you use a callback function, or a Value list, then there is no increase at all. No speed difference either, because it has been shown that it's just a property, which is only used in the GUI, whether it's a query or table interface, or if it's designing a form. (Once a form is designed, the lookup field can be overridden, since it is only a default control). Ken did use a scenario, a third generation db using tables setup originally with Lookups, as an example of how a lookup can cause trouble. He did show that they could be an issue. However, his example showed poor development along the way. (The original database was built and worked for it's purpose, the second generation was a copy of the first, but nothing was done to make it unique in it's purpose. The third generation could then not be simply a join between the first two.). Not saying Ken is a poor developer, just that his example assumed poor development along the way. That reinforces that if you don't know what you are doing, then things can go awry. But that holds true with LOTS of stuff within Access. So, tell me what's wrong, if a developer creates a database and uses a Lookup field. let's be specific. let's say Joe Schmoe builds a simple database for a client who wants to keep track of it's employees. In the Marital Status column, the developer sets the field to be a lookup, with a Value list of 'Married;Separated;Single;Divorced;Widow(er)'. What is wrong with that scenario? Let's say Joe Schmoe is on the wrong end of a Widowed employee, and the company needs a developer to upgrade the database to a newer version of Access. They hire someone from the middle east, who is a wiz at Access, but doesn't write english very well. Joe Schmoe's lookup field allows the foriegn developer to use the initial table design with no further ado. Is that not an advantage? I'm still trying to be civil, because you're right, I do believe in my opinion. That doesn't mean I can't change my opinion. When we had the discussion about using a Date Table, I did some testing, and found out that I was wrong, thus changing my opinion, based on facts presented. I'm still willing to do that, but I haven't been presented with facts, only scenarios which only reinforce the 'you must know what you are doing' clause. Drew -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Charlotte Foust Sent: Monday, March 29, 2004 2:44 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] Lookup Fields in Table Design Forget it. You insist that your opinion carried the day. Go right ahead and believe it, but don't expect everyone else to agree. Charlotte Foust -----Original Message----- From: DWUTKA at marlow.com [mailto:DWUTKA at marlow.com] Sent: Monday, March 29, 2004 11:31 AM To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: RE: [AccessD] Lookup Fields in Table Design What's my opinion? The 'nay-sayers' have not shown a good valid reason why it is 'wrong' to use them. All evidence points to the fact that they do their job, and if you know what you are doing, then use them if you want. I have been reading all of the posts on this thread, have ya'all actually posted a valid 'doomsday' catch all, that I missed? Drew -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Charlotte Foust Sent: Monday, March 29, 2004 1:22 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] Lookup Fields in Table Design NOT! That's your opinion, Drew. Not sacred writ. Try not to get them confused. Charlotte Foust -----Original Message----- From: DWUTKA at marlow.com [mailto:DWUTKA at marlow.com] Sent: Monday, March 29, 2004 10:54 AM To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: RE: [AccessD] Lookup Fields in Table Design And that is exactly why I jumped into the thread. There are a lot of 'myths' about Access. Most of them are perpetuated by personal preferences, rather then actual issues. In your case, of a value list, there is NO drawback, because the value list would just import or link without a hitch, and server side db's would just ignore them if imported. However, you are a good example of why I posted what I did, because you were under the impression that it was wrong to use them. That was just mis-information. Drew -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of John Bartow Sent: Monday, March 29, 2004 11:58 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] Lookup Fields in Table Design Dittos - exactly my point too. And I want to thank everyone who helped out in the discussion - "nay-sayers" and "sayers" alike! Without a quality discussion between people who disagree on the matter I would have learned very little and the archives would have just been cluttered up with flames. It was an eye opener for me since I had been the one who had assumed there was something terribly wrong with using the lookup property. My assumption was not even based on what was eventually brought as the problem. I had assumed the whole buggaboo was about using delimited lists as the default lookup. The one time I did use the lookup property it seemed to be the only reasonable way to handle the situation (it was specified that the users were to be given free reign to the database window). It bugged me that I had used it since so many people had recommended against it. Now I feel totally justified about doing it the way I did. I used defined queries based on the normalized relationships that existed in the database as the default lookup property. This is what should have been used even if the defaults were not set up. The only difference lies in the fact that it saves steps when adding controls to forms and - the reason I did it - it uses the correct lookup values displayed in the data sheets so some user isn't going to come along and try and type auto numbers in and miss by one or two digits. If anyone ever changes the structure they should certainly check to make sure the queries all work properly so it shouldn't even cause problems for some of the more extreme cases that were brought up. So William and Andy - to make up for your inconvenience I'll buy you a mug or two when you stop in to Winneconne someday :o) John I just hope that people starting out in Access read the thread, and realize that not everything that is 'recommended' about Access is based on fact. That their goal in their development career should be to learn everything that they can with the development tool of their choice, and not just take things at face value. Drew -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From DWUTKA at marlow.com Mon Mar 29 15:50:56 2004 From: DWUTKA at marlow.com (DWUTKA at marlow.com) Date: Mon, 29 Mar 2004 15:50:56 -0600 Subject: [AccessD] Lookup Fields in Table Design Message-ID: <2F8793082E00D4119A1700B0D0216BF802227A0D@main2.marlow.com> Thank you. I've had my opinion changed on this list before too. And I always learn something new in here. But I was wondering if I was starting to lose it, because I hadn't seen any solid 'evidence' from the nay-sayers. That's all I was asking for. Reproducable results. It was very easy for me to reproduce the Date Table 'examples', and see that they are definitely more efficient then using calculations in a query, for sorting and searching. Just haven't seen anything like that with the Lookup topic. Which isn't surprising though. It is something that has been mystified in the 'relational database' world. It's in books, on the web, and thus is defended simply by pointing to other references. Those are the hardest walls to topple. It's a paradigm. Drew -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of John Bartow Sent: Monday, March 29, 2004 3:16 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] Lookup Fields in Table Design I started the thread decidely not using lookup properties for the past 5 years because of the overwhelming attitude among developers that it shouldn't be used. (IIRC that's when I first read Dev's "10 Commandments".) I had no "side" in this debate other than pointing out weaknesses I saw in specific arguments (and being "cutesy" at times) Rarely is someone go to fully switch "sides" in a debate. (So I don't expect everyone to agree with me.) I believe that, based on this thread, the people who argued that it is OK to use lookup properties have won the day. Unless someone comes up with a solid reason why it should never be used I will not hesitate to use it again when the situation warrants. I challenge anyone to use facts to convince me otherwise. In fact I would very much appreciate it. And I'll buy you a few if you can do so! John "always open to the facts" Bartow -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Charlotte Foust Sent: Monday, March 29, 2004 2:44 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] Lookup Fields in Table Design Forget it. You insist that your opinion carried the day. Go right ahead and believe it, but don't expect everyone else to agree. Charlotte Foust -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From bchacc at san.rr.com Mon Mar 29 15:54:45 2004 From: bchacc at san.rr.com (Rocky Smolin - Beach Access Software) Date: Mon, 29 Mar 2004 13:54:45 -0800 Subject: [AccessD] OT: A survey from somebody not as well-connected as JC References: <20040329101610.2131078867.serbach@new.rr.com> Message-ID: <006301c415d8$730dcce0$6601a8c0@HAL9002> Steven: The short answer to your questions for me is that I'm trying to move away from fee-for-service to product. With fee-for-service it's just as many hours as you can stand to be at the computer running the billing clock. I find that it's hard to bill more than 1000-1200 honest hours a year without breaking your head. So you can make a living but that's about all. You can never really build up any real wealth. With a product, the upside is unlimited. You can make $10k in one day just by being next to the phone. But the risks are high as well. It's not a course of action I could recommend to anybody. Rocky Smolin Beach Access Software http://www.e-z-mrp.com ----- Original Message ----- From: "Steven W. Erbach" To: "Access Developers discussion and problem solving" Sent: Monday, March 29, 2004 8:16 AM Subject: [AccessD] OT: A survey from somebody not as well-connected as JC > Dear Group, > > This is for the independent developers only. If you work for a company and you'd like to take the survey, just let me know that you're not an independent developer when you reply. > > I'm curious about what you independent developers have had to learn to keep up with the changing marketplace. > > 1) If you've managed to maintain a significant clientele by developing Access applications, what have you done to sharpen your skills to make you more attractive as the developer of choice in a competitive field? That is, have you developed a framework like JC, or have you gone more towards developing front ends for SQL back ends like Arthur? > > 2) If you've moved away from Access development as your primary source of income, what other platforms have you learned to make a living? Do you now do mostly .NET development, ASP, SQL Server, PHP, what? > > 3) If you're doing .NET development, what kind of things are you doing? Has it lived up to the hype? Last year about this time I was searching the want ads for positions before I decided to stick with my own business. I was amused by the ads that profiled the "ideal" candidate as one who had deep .NET experience. The stinking product had only officially been on the market for one whole year with another year in beta before that. Sheesh! Have you seen any real live .NET implementations that are worth bragging about...or have you created any? > > In short, what have you had to do to make yourself useful as an independent developer? I know that William works quite a bit with SBS and LANs. Have any of you developed proficiency with cabling and routers and such to increase your marketability? > > Do you do any security consulting, say? Do you build custom-order PCs? Do you do LAN management, e-mail server management and setup, web site development? > > One final thing: Years ago when I started I took advantage of the swing of the pendulum that put PC power in users' hands. That is, the PC was a great analysis tool for mainframe data. Lotus 1-2-3, dBASE III, Paradox, etc., were the tools that enabled users and departments to fiddle with the data without having to wait for the IT department to get around to their little pissant application requests. > > Now the pendulum has swung the other way. Security concerns and scalability and distributed networks / VPNs and web-based database applications have all made the pendulum swing back towards centralized control...and the IT guys are loving it. Or am I reading it wrong? What do you think? > > Regards, > > Steve Erbach > Scientific Marketing > Neenah, WI > 920-969-0504 > > Security and Virus information: > http://www.swerbach.com/security > > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > From DWUTKA at marlow.com Mon Mar 29 16:02:54 2004 From: DWUTKA at marlow.com (DWUTKA at marlow.com) Date: Mon, 29 Mar 2004 16:02:54 -0600 Subject: [AccessD] OT: A survey from somebody not as well-connected as JC Message-ID: <2F8793082E00D4119A1700B0D0216BF802227A0E@main2.marlow.com> I second that. I work for a fellow on the side, who sells a few software packages, along with 'add-ons'. I have modified his software package here and there, but I also have written many of the add-ons / extra tools. He really makes his money on maintenance contracts, and reselling software. But it's an up and down world. Some clients simply send him money, others are a real drain of his resources, with little reward. Drew -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Rocky Smolin - Beach Access Software Sent: Monday, March 29, 2004 3:55 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] OT: A survey from somebody not as well-connected as JC Steven: The short answer to your questions for me is that I'm trying to move away from fee-for-service to product. With fee-for-service it's just as many hours as you can stand to be at the computer running the billing clock. I find that it's hard to bill more than 1000-1200 honest hours a year without breaking your head. So you can make a living but that's about all. You can never really build up any real wealth. With a product, the upside is unlimited. You can make $10k in one day just by being next to the phone. But the risks are high as well. It's not a course of action I could recommend to anybody. Rocky Smolin Beach Access Software http://www.e-z-mrp.com ----- Original Message ----- From: "Steven W. Erbach" To: "Access Developers discussion and problem solving" Sent: Monday, March 29, 2004 8:16 AM Subject: [AccessD] OT: A survey from somebody not as well-connected as JC > Dear Group, > > This is for the independent developers only. If you work for a company and you'd like to take the survey, just let me know that you're not an independent developer when you reply. > > I'm curious about what you independent developers have had to learn to keep up with the changing marketplace. > > 1) If you've managed to maintain a significant clientele by developing Access applications, what have you done to sharpen your skills to make you more attractive as the developer of choice in a competitive field? That is, have you developed a framework like JC, or have you gone more towards developing front ends for SQL back ends like Arthur? > > 2) If you've moved away from Access development as your primary source of income, what other platforms have you learned to make a living? Do you now do mostly .NET development, ASP, SQL Server, PHP, what? > > 3) If you're doing .NET development, what kind of things are you doing? Has it lived up to the hype? Last year about this time I was searching the want ads for positions before I decided to stick with my own business. I was amused by the ads that profiled the "ideal" candidate as one who had deep .NET experience. The stinking product had only officially been on the market for one whole year with another year in beta before that. Sheesh! Have you seen any real live .NET implementations that are worth bragging about...or have you created any? > > In short, what have you had to do to make yourself useful as an independent developer? I know that William works quite a bit with SBS and LANs. Have any of you developed proficiency with cabling and routers and such to increase your marketability? > > Do you do any security consulting, say? Do you build custom-order PCs? Do you do LAN management, e-mail server management and setup, web site development? > > One final thing: Years ago when I started I took advantage of the swing of the pendulum that put PC power in users' hands. That is, the PC was a great analysis tool for mainframe data. Lotus 1-2-3, dBASE III, Paradox, etc., were the tools that enabled users and departments to fiddle with the data without having to wait for the IT department to get around to their little pissant application requests. > > Now the pendulum has swung the other way. Security concerns and scalability and distributed networks / VPNs and web-based database applications have all made the pendulum swing back towards centralized control...and the IT guys are loving it. Or am I reading it wrong? What do you think? > > Regards, > > Steve Erbach > Scientific Marketing > Neenah, WI > 920-969-0504 > > Security and Virus information: > http://www.swerbach.com/security > > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From carbonnb at sympatico.ca Mon Mar 29 16:17:07 2004 From: carbonnb at sympatico.ca (Bryan Carbonnell) Date: Mon, 29 Mar 2004 17:17:07 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] OT: A survey from somebody not as well-connected as JC In-Reply-To: <2F8793082E00D4119A1700B0D0216BF802227A03@main2.marlow.com> Message-ID: <40685A13.999.15E9EF3@localhost> On 29 Mar 2004 at 13:47, DWUTKA at marlow.com wrote: > I have used it. Probably a bad example. Probably?!?! Quite the understatement there Drew :)) -- Bryan Carbonnell - carbonnb at sympatico.ca I don't approve of political jokes. I've seen too many of them get elected. From carbonnb at sympatico.ca Mon Mar 29 16:17:07 2004 From: carbonnb at sympatico.ca (Bryan Carbonnell) Date: Mon, 29 Mar 2004 17:17:07 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] OT: A survey from somebody not as well-connected as JC In-Reply-To: <20040329135316.1863005985.serbach@new.rr.com> Message-ID: <40685A13.5655.15E9EB6@localhost> On 29 Mar 2004 at 13:53, Steven W. Erbach wrote: > >> I use it everyday and can't wait until it gets replaced. << > > [chuckle!] Why, Bryan! How you talk! You mean that all that hype and > buildup and promise ain't worth a hill o' beans? Yea, kinda like .Not, er um .Net :) No I don't have any real experience with .Net. Just a little VB.net playing. Not enough time for me to really look at it. > I've got two clients that are using it. I don't hear too much > groaning, but I'm not listening too closely. Ya need to clean them ears out then :) -- Bryan Carbonnell - carbonnb at sympatico.ca Don't be irreplaceable. If you can't be replaced, you can't be promoted. From serbach at new.rr.com Mon Mar 29 16:22:49 2004 From: serbach at new.rr.com (Steven W. Erbach) Date: Mon, 29 Mar 2004 16:22:49 -0600 Subject: [AccessD] OT: A survey from somebody not as well-connected as JC Message-ID: <20040329162249.1332587314.serbach@new.rr.com> Rocky, >> So you can make a living but that's about all. ?You can never really build up any real wealth. << You have an excellent, cogent, and concise point there, Rocky. I am hoping to get my wife back in the development scheme of things. We were doing the best when she was working on projects at the same time I was. >> But the risks are high as well. ?It's not a course of action I could recommend to anybody. << I'm seeing that to a small degree with a product we acquired last year. It's an Access application that keeps statistical data for domestic violence shelters. The people that work at the shelters are angels, but they are very needy, if you know what I mean. High support requirements. Low budgets. I'm getting a fast education that I hope doesn't break me. Thanks for responding to my little survey. Regards, Steve Erbach Scientific Marketing Neenah, WI 920-969-0504 "I think that the send button actually turns brains on." -- Bryan Carbonnell From john at winhaven.net Mon Mar 29 16:22:41 2004 From: john at winhaven.net (John Bartow) Date: Mon, 29 Mar 2004 16:22:41 -0600 Subject: [AccessD] Lookup Fields in Table Design In-Reply-To: <2F8793082E00D4119A1700B0D0216BF802227A0D@main2.marlow.com> Message-ID: I guess maybe "nay-sayers" had a negative connotation to it. Next time I think I'll call the opposing views "Shirts" and "Skins". Maybe we'll get more people participating :o) -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of DWUTKA at marlow.com Sent: Monday, March 29, 2004 3:51 PM To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: RE: [AccessD] Lookup Fields in Table Design Thank you. I've had my opinion changed on this list before too. And I always learn something new in here. But I was wondering if I was starting to lose it, because I hadn't seen any solid 'evidence' from the nay-sayers. That's all I was asking for. Reproducable results. It was very easy for me to reproduce the Date Table 'examples', and see that they are definitely more efficient then using calculations in a query, for sorting and searching. Just haven't seen anything like that with the Lookup topic. Which isn't surprising though. It is something that has been mystified in the 'relational database' world. It's in books, on the web, and thus is defended simply by pointing to other references. Those are the hardest walls to topple. It's a paradigm. Drew -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of John Bartow Sent: Monday, March 29, 2004 3:16 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] Lookup Fields in Table Design I started the thread decidely not using lookup properties for the past 5 years because of the overwhelming attitude among developers that it shouldn't be used. (IIRC that's when I first read Dev's "10 Commandments".) I had no "side" in this debate other than pointing out weaknesses I saw in specific arguments (and being "cutesy" at times) Rarely is someone go to fully switch "sides" in a debate. (So I don't expect everyone to agree with me.) I believe that, based on this thread, the people who argued that it is OK to use lookup properties have won the day. Unless someone comes up with a solid reason why it should never be used I will not hesitate to use it again when the situation warrants. I challenge anyone to use facts to convince me otherwise. In fact I would very much appreciate it. And I'll buy you a few if you can do so! John "always open to the facts" Bartow -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Charlotte Foust Sent: Monday, March 29, 2004 2:44 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] Lookup Fields in Table Design Forget it. You insist that your opinion carried the day. Go right ahead and believe it, but don't expect everyone else to agree. Charlotte Foust -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From wdhindman at bellsouth.net Mon Mar 29 16:25:36 2004 From: wdhindman at bellsouth.net (William Hindman) Date: Mon, 29 Mar 2004 17:25:36 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Lookup Fields in Table Design References: <2F8793082E00D4119A1700B0D0216BF802227A0D@main2.marlow.com> Message-ID: <008901c415dc$c5fe43e0$6101a8c0@dejpolsys> ...sigh William Hindman ipsedixitism: something is true because I myself have said it is true ...the philosophy of Noam Chomsky :) From DWUTKA at marlow.com Mon Mar 29 16:32:51 2004 From: DWUTKA at marlow.com (DWUTKA at marlow.com) Date: Mon, 29 Mar 2004 16:32:51 -0600 Subject: [AccessD] OT: A survey from somebody not as well-connected as JC Message-ID: <2F8793082E00D4119A1700B0D0216BF802227A0F@main2.marlow.com> I don't know. I've heard mixed stories about .Net, so from 'what I've heard', it's not an entirely bad example. Drew -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Bryan Carbonnell Sent: Monday, March 29, 2004 4:17 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] OT: A survey from somebody not as well-connected as JC On 29 Mar 2004 at 13:47, DWUTKA at marlow.com wrote: > I have used it. Probably a bad example. Probably?!?! Quite the understatement there Drew :)) -- Bryan Carbonnell - carbonnb at sympatico.ca I don't approve of political jokes. I've seen too many of them get elected. -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From DWUTKA at marlow.com Mon Mar 29 16:56:59 2004 From: DWUTKA at marlow.com (DWUTKA at marlow.com) Date: Mon, 29 Mar 2004 16:56:59 -0600 Subject: [AccessD] Lookup Fields in Table Design Message-ID: <2F8793082E00D4119A1700B0D0216BF802227A10@main2.marlow.com> Now William, was that very helpful? Who are you sighing at? Drew -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of William Hindman Sent: Monday, March 29, 2004 4:26 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Lookup Fields in Table Design ...sigh William Hindman ipsedixitism: something is true because I myself have said it is true ...the philosophy of Noam Chomsky :) -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From DWUTKA at marlow.com Mon Mar 29 16:57:41 2004 From: DWUTKA at marlow.com (DWUTKA at marlow.com) Date: Mon, 29 Mar 2004 16:57:41 -0600 Subject: [AccessD] Lookup Fields in Table Design Message-ID: <2F8793082E00D4119A1700B0D0216BF802227A11@main2.marlow.com> Might be more fun if we got to see the opposing team then! LOL. Drew -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of John Bartow Sent: Monday, March 29, 2004 4:23 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] Lookup Fields in Table Design I guess maybe "nay-sayers" had a negative connotation to it. Next time I think I'll call the opposing views "Shirts" and "Skins". Maybe we'll get more people participating :o) -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of DWUTKA at marlow.com Sent: Monday, March 29, 2004 3:51 PM To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: RE: [AccessD] Lookup Fields in Table Design Thank you. I've had my opinion changed on this list before too. And I always learn something new in here. But I was wondering if I was starting to lose it, because I hadn't seen any solid 'evidence' from the nay-sayers. That's all I was asking for. Reproducable results. It was very easy for me to reproduce the Date Table 'examples', and see that they are definitely more efficient then using calculations in a query, for sorting and searching. Just haven't seen anything like that with the Lookup topic. Which isn't surprising though. It is something that has been mystified in the 'relational database' world. It's in books, on the web, and thus is defended simply by pointing to other references. Those are the hardest walls to topple. It's a paradigm. Drew -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of John Bartow Sent: Monday, March 29, 2004 3:16 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] Lookup Fields in Table Design I started the thread decidely not using lookup properties for the past 5 years because of the overwhelming attitude among developers that it shouldn't be used. (IIRC that's when I first read Dev's "10 Commandments".) I had no "side" in this debate other than pointing out weaknesses I saw in specific arguments (and being "cutesy" at times) Rarely is someone go to fully switch "sides" in a debate. (So I don't expect everyone to agree with me.) I believe that, based on this thread, the people who argued that it is OK to use lookup properties have won the day. Unless someone comes up with a solid reason why it should never be used I will not hesitate to use it again when the situation warrants. I challenge anyone to use facts to convince me otherwise. In fact I would very much appreciate it. And I'll buy you a few if you can do so! John "always open to the facts" Bartow -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Charlotte Foust Sent: Monday, March 29, 2004 2:44 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] Lookup Fields in Table Design Forget it. You insist that your opinion carried the day. Go right ahead and believe it, but don't expect everyone else to agree. Charlotte Foust -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From serbach at new.rr.com Mon Mar 29 17:03:58 2004 From: serbach at new.rr.com (Steven W. Erbach) Date: Mon, 29 Mar 2004 17:03:58 -0600 Subject: [AccessD] Slightly OT Message-ID: <20040329170358.1651494451.serbach@new.rr.com> >> We want to take a couple of hundred Access databases and move them to SQL Server. WHat sort of problems do you see in terms of...<< Um, Martin? Don't I own a book with your name on it called "SQL: Access to SQL Server?" Regards, Steve Erbach Scientific Marketing Neenah, WI 920-969-0504 "Don't light a match 'til ya know which end of the dog is barkin'." - Dave Barry From cfoust at infostatsystems.com Mon Mar 29 17:03:52 2004 From: cfoust at infostatsystems.com (Charlotte Foust) Date: Mon, 29 Mar 2004 15:03:52 -0800 Subject: [AccessD] Slightly OT Message-ID: LOL! You beat me to it. I own the same book, although I be jiggered if I can find it at the moment. Charlotte Foust -----Original Message----- From: Steven W. Erbach [mailto:serbach at new.rr.com] Sent: Monday, March 29, 2004 3:04 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Slightly OT >> We want to take a couple of hundred Access databases and move them to >> SQL Server. WHat sort of problems do you see in terms of...<< Um, Martin? Don't I own a book with your name on it called "SQL: Access to SQL Server?" Regards, Steve Erbach Scientific Marketing Neenah, WI 920-969-0504 "Don't light a match 'til ya know which end of the dog is barkin'." - Dave Barry -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From wdhindman at bellsouth.net Mon Mar 29 17:08:48 2004 From: wdhindman at bellsouth.net (William Hindman) Date: Mon, 29 Mar 2004 18:08:48 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] OT: A survey from somebody not as well-connected as JC References: <20040329101610.2131078867.serbach@new.rr.com> Message-ID: <00ae01c415e2$cb59d1f0$6101a8c0@dejpolsys> ...don't take this the wrong way Steve but some of the questions you ask point away from the answers you want imnsho ...Access is a tool for me ...I don't get clients ...or keep them ...because I use Access ...or any other tool ...I get and keep clients because I solve their problems ...99% could care less what I use as long as it works and fits their budget. ...of course I'm not trying to get rich like Rocky nor invent a new wheel like JC ...I do what it takes to make a client happy ...that, or I colbyize them ...I got into the SBS gig because a client was getting a raw deal from a Netware house and I agreed to fix his network if he'd invest the money in what I recommended ...he agreed and I bought a couple books on SBS and found a good list and he's happy and passed me on to a couple others and so on ...same with websites which I've now taken up for profit ...client was getting a raw deal and asked my advice ...so I bought a couple of books and found a good list and its starting to look pretty nice and he wants loads more and there is another waiting with baited breath ...if I want the work :) ...but I'm just me and don't have any intention of ever working hard again ...so much of this may not apply to you ...but I'd think that if you focused a lot more on what the client needs rather than what gadget you're fixing to use, you might solve both of your problems :) ...just my two cents of course ...others may well see it different and I won't mind at all :) William Hindman ipsedixitism: something is true because I myself have said it is true ...the philosophy of Noam Chomsky :) ----- Original Message ----- From: "Steven W. Erbach" To: "Access Developers discussion and problem solving" Sent: Monday, March 29, 2004 11:16 AM Subject: [AccessD] OT: A survey from somebody not as well-connected as JC > Dear Group, > > This is for the independent developers only. If you work for a company and you'd like to take the survey, just let me know that you're not an independent developer when you reply. > > I'm curious about what you independent developers have had to learn to keep up with the changing marketplace. > > 1) If you've managed to maintain a significant clientele by developing Access applications, what have you done to sharpen your skills to make you more attractive as the developer of choice in a competitive field? That is, have you developed a framework like JC, or have you gone more towards developing front ends for SQL back ends like Arthur? > > 2) If you've moved away from Access development as your primary source of income, what other platforms have you learned to make a living? Do you now do mostly .NET development, ASP, SQL Server, PHP, what? > > 3) If you're doing .NET development, what kind of things are you doing? Has it lived up to the hype? Last year about this time I was searching the want ads for positions before I decided to stick with my own business. I was amused by the ads that profiled the "ideal" candidate as one who had deep .NET experience. The stinking product had only officially been on the market for one whole year with another year in beta before that. Sheesh! Have you seen any real live .NET implementations that are worth bragging about...or have you created any? > > In short, what have you had to do to make yourself useful as an independent developer? I know that William works quite a bit with SBS and LANs. Have any of you developed proficiency with cabling and routers and such to increase your marketability? > > Do you do any security consulting, say? Do you build custom-order PCs? Do you do LAN management, e-mail server management and setup, web site development? > > One final thing: Years ago when I started I took advantage of the swing of the pendulum that put PC power in users' hands. That is, the PC was a great analysis tool for mainframe data. Lotus 1-2-3, dBASE III, Paradox, etc., were the tools that enabled users and departments to fiddle with the data without having to wait for the IT department to get around to their little pissant application requests. > > Now the pendulum has swung the other way. Security concerns and scalability and distributed networks / VPNs and web-based database applications have all made the pendulum swing back towards centralized control...and the IT guys are loving it. Or am I reading it wrong? What do you think? > > Regards, > > Steve Erbach > Scientific Marketing > Neenah, WI > 920-969-0504 > > Security and Virus information: > http://www.swerbach.com/security > > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > From wdhindman at bellsouth.net Mon Mar 29 17:10:30 2004 From: wdhindman at bellsouth.net (William Hindman) Date: Mon, 29 Mar 2004 18:10:30 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Slightly OT References: <20040329170358.1651494451.serbach@new.rr.com> Message-ID: <00bb01c415e3$07e20930$6101a8c0@dejpolsys> ...you know I was thinking the exact same thing!!!! :))))))))) William Hindman ipsedixitism: something is true because I myself have said it is true ...the philosophy of Noam Chomsky :) ----- Original Message ----- From: "Steven W. Erbach" To: "Access Developers discussion and problem solving" Sent: Monday, March 29, 2004 6:03 PM Subject: Re: [AccessD] Slightly OT > >> We want to take a couple of hundred Access databases and move them to SQL Server. WHat sort of problems do you see in terms of...<< > > Um, Martin? Don't I own a book with your name on it called "SQL: Access to SQL Server?" > > Regards, > > Steve Erbach > Scientific Marketing > Neenah, WI > 920-969-0504 > > "Don't light a match 'til ya know which end of the dog is barkin'." - Dave Barry > > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > From my.lists at verizon.net Mon Mar 29 17:10:11 2004 From: my.lists at verizon.net (Francisco H Tapia) Date: Mon, 29 Mar 2004 15:10:11 -0800 Subject: [AccessD] Slightly OT In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <4068ACD3.1080102@verizon.net> I think Martin didn't get a chance to buy the book.. either that or he's taking a page straight out of Susan Harkin's previous posts ;o) Charlotte Foust said the following on 3/29/2004 3:03 PM: >LOL! You beat me to it. I own the same book, although I be jiggered if >I can find it at the moment. > >Charlotte Foust > >-----Original Message----- >From: Steven W. Erbach [mailto:serbach at new.rr.com] >Sent: Monday, March 29, 2004 3:04 PM >To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving >Subject: Re: [AccessD] Slightly OT > > > > >>>We want to take a couple of hundred Access databases and move them to >>> >>> > > > >>>SQL Server. WHat sort of problems do you see in terms of...<< >>> >>> > >Um, Martin? Don't I own a book with your name on it called "SQL: Access >to SQL Server?" > >Regards, > > -- -Francisco From ssharkins at bellsouth.net Mon Mar 29 17:17:56 2004 From: ssharkins at bellsouth.net (Susan Harkins) Date: Mon, 29 Mar 2004 18:17:56 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Slightly OT In-Reply-To: <4068ACD3.1080102@verizon.net> Message-ID: <20040329231755.OSVT1746.imf17aec.mail.bellsouth.net@SUSANONE> I've tried to teach him... :) Susan H. I think Martin didn't get a chance to buy the book.. either that or he's taking a page straight out of Susan Harkin's previous posts ;o) Charlotte Foust said the following on 3/29/2004 3:03 PM: >LOL! You beat me to it. I own the same book, although I be jiggered >if I can find it at the moment. > From DWUTKA at marlow.com Mon Mar 29 17:18:28 2004 From: DWUTKA at marlow.com (DWUTKA at marlow.com) Date: Mon, 29 Mar 2004 17:18:28 -0600 Subject: [AccessD] OT: A survey from somebody not as well-connected as JC Message-ID: <2F8793082E00D4119A1700B0D0216BF802227A13@main2.marlow.com> I have to admit I have the same sentiments. I'm more concerned with what I need to solve, then what tools I use. That is the only reason that I haven't bothered to do anything with .Net, because I have yet to require new tools to do the jobs I get. It's also why I love to listen to technologies in other areas, because it broadens my perspective on how to approach a problem. Drew -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of William Hindman Sent: Monday, March 29, 2004 5:09 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] OT: A survey from somebody not as well-connected as JC ...don't take this the wrong way Steve but some of the questions you ask point away from the answers you want imnsho ...Access is a tool for me ...I don't get clients ...or keep them ...because I use Access ...or any other tool ...I get and keep clients because I solve their problems ...99% could care less what I use as long as it works and fits their budget. ...of course I'm not trying to get rich like Rocky nor invent a new wheel like JC ...I do what it takes to make a client happy ...that, or I colbyize them ...I got into the SBS gig because a client was getting a raw deal from a Netware house and I agreed to fix his network if he'd invest the money in what I recommended ...he agreed and I bought a couple books on SBS and found a good list and he's happy and passed me on to a couple others and so on ...same with websites which I've now taken up for profit ...client was getting a raw deal and asked my advice ...so I bought a couple of books and found a good list and its starting to look pretty nice and he wants loads more and there is another waiting with baited breath ...if I want the work :) ...but I'm just me and don't have any intention of ever working hard again ...so much of this may not apply to you ...but I'd think that if you focused a lot more on what the client needs rather than what gadget you're fixing to use, you might solve both of your problems :) ...just my two cents of course ...others may well see it different and I won't mind at all :) William Hindman ipsedixitism: something is true because I myself have said it is true ...the philosophy of Noam Chomsky :) ----- Original Message ----- From: "Steven W. Erbach" To: "Access Developers discussion and problem solving" Sent: Monday, March 29, 2004 11:16 AM Subject: [AccessD] OT: A survey from somebody not as well-connected as JC > Dear Group, > > This is for the independent developers only. If you work for a company and you'd like to take the survey, just let me know that you're not an independent developer when you reply. > > I'm curious about what you independent developers have had to learn to keep up with the changing marketplace. > > 1) If you've managed to maintain a significant clientele by developing Access applications, what have you done to sharpen your skills to make you more attractive as the developer of choice in a competitive field? That is, have you developed a framework like JC, or have you gone more towards developing front ends for SQL back ends like Arthur? > > 2) If you've moved away from Access development as your primary source of income, what other platforms have you learned to make a living? Do you now do mostly .NET development, ASP, SQL Server, PHP, what? > > 3) If you're doing .NET development, what kind of things are you doing? Has it lived up to the hype? Last year about this time I was searching the want ads for positions before I decided to stick with my own business. I was amused by the ads that profiled the "ideal" candidate as one who had deep .NET experience. The stinking product had only officially been on the market for one whole year with another year in beta before that. Sheesh! Have you seen any real live .NET implementations that are worth bragging about...or have you created any? > > In short, what have you had to do to make yourself useful as an independent developer? I know that William works quite a bit with SBS and LANs. Have any of you developed proficiency with cabling and routers and such to increase your marketability? > > Do you do any security consulting, say? Do you build custom-order PCs? Do you do LAN management, e-mail server management and setup, web site development? > > One final thing: Years ago when I started I took advantage of the swing of the pendulum that put PC power in users' hands. That is, the PC was a great analysis tool for mainframe data. Lotus 1-2-3, dBASE III, Paradox, etc., were the tools that enabled users and departments to fiddle with the data without having to wait for the IT department to get around to their little pissant application requests. > > Now the pendulum has swung the other way. Security concerns and scalability and distributed networks / VPNs and web-based database applications have all made the pendulum swing back towards centralized control...and the IT guys are loving it. Or am I reading it wrong? What do you think? > > Regards, > > Steve Erbach > Scientific Marketing > Neenah, WI > 920-969-0504 > > Security and Virus information: > http://www.swerbach.com/security > > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From my.lists at verizon.net Mon Mar 29 17:30:44 2004 From: my.lists at verizon.net (Francisco H Tapia) Date: Mon, 29 Mar 2004 15:30:44 -0800 Subject: [AccessD] Slightly OT In-Reply-To: <20040329231755.OSVT1746.imf17aec.mail.bellsouth.net@SUSANONE> References: <20040329231755.OSVT1746.imf17aec.mail.bellsouth.net@SUSANONE> Message-ID: <4068B1A4.5040507@verizon.net> I guess he was paying attention :| Susan Harkins said the following on 3/29/2004 3:17 PM: >I've tried to teach him... :) > >Susan H. > >I think Martin didn't get a chance to buy the book.. either that or he's >taking a page straight out of Susan Harkin's previous posts ;o) > > > >Charlotte Foust said the following on 3/29/2004 3:03 PM: > > > >>LOL! You beat me to it. I own the same book, although I be jiggered >>if I can find it at the moment. >> >> >> > > > -- -Francisco From artful at rogers.com Mon Mar 29 21:41:53 2004 From: artful at rogers.com (Arthur Fuller) Date: Mon, 29 Mar 2004 19:41:53 -0800 Subject: [AccessD] Lookup Fields in Table Design In-Reply-To: <2F8793082E00D4119A1700B0D0216BF8022279F9@main2.marlow.com> Message-ID: <000001c41608$f1d36910$6501a8c0@rock> I am one of those asinine developers that defines as much as possible at the table level, including lookups. In an MDB, for example, I might define the CustomerID column as a combo-box whose source is a query called Customers_SelectByCompanyName, with a hidden column 0 and a visible column 1. Even if it does cost me a couple of milliseconds at run-time (which is arguable), I'll still do it, because of the tremendous development-time gains. Given the absence of "domains" in Access (a domain in this sense is a meta-field, i.e. a thoroughly defined field which is not tied to a table, which can then be copied to any given table in the app), what I typically do is create a pseudo-table containing all these thoroughly-defined field definitions. Then as I create the actual tables, I copy the fields of interest from the pseudo-table to the given actual table, thus "inheriting" the complete fieldspec, including format, mask, prompt, combo-box etc. Why do I invest so much time at the table level? Very simple. Once that is done, even if I do nothing more than create an autoForm or query or report, I inherit all these field specifications. I do it this way in MDBs because most of the data-architecture tools don't provide full support for file-level databases. Given a job in SQL Server, though, I invest this effort in the definition of domains etc., and then manufacture all the tables from the domains, postponing this step until I am satisfied with the domain specs. The great thing about such (admittedly pricey) tools is that you can revise the domain definitions and they automatically propagate to all instances of the domains in all the tables. That's what I love about such tools! Arthur -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of DWUTKA at marlow.com Sent: Monday, March 29, 2004 7:49 AM To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: RE: [AccessD] Lookup Fields in Table Design Doesn't intimidate me. I have the utmost respect for the moderators though, because they have to be impartial. Kind of like being a cop. Sometimes you have to be forceful, when you can absolutely sympathize with the people you are trying to help. I just hope that people starting out in Access read the thread, and realize that not everything that is 'recommended' about Access is based on fact. That their goal in their development career should be to learn everything that they can with the development tool of their choice, and not just take things at face value. Drew -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Susan Harkins Sent: Sunday, March 28, 2004 12:58 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: [AccessD] Lookup Fields in Table Design Why do men get so grouchy in their old age? Andy and William -- if you don't want to read the thread, can you not ignore it? Are you trying to tell us that because you find no value in the discussion, that the discussion is therefore valueless? I'm sure that's not really what you mean to say. Ignore the discussion if you're not getting anything out of it. We all ignore threads all the time. Let them hash it out. I'm pretty much done with the thread myself, but this is the one thing that some of you do that really annoys me. Leave the thread be. If it's gets off topic, then kill it. FWIW, you probably have pretty much killed it with your caustic remarks -- I wish you guys wouldn't do that. It intimidates people. Susan H. ...ah ...welcome to Florida Andy ...we may not be able to count votes but, just like the butterfly ballot, we sure as hell know when something has been beat to death a hundred times over! :)))))) -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From SDSSoftware at optusnet.com.au Mon Mar 29 19:35:23 2004 From: SDSSoftware at optusnet.com.au (Kath Pelletti) Date: Tue, 30 Mar 2004 11:35:23 +1000 Subject: [AccessD] 1st Anglo-Australian DBA Conference References: Message-ID: <022c01c415f7$457816e0$6401a8c0@user> Glad to see it started anyway. Kath ----- Original Message ----- From: Jim Lawrence (AccessD) To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Sent: Sunday, March 28, 2004 3:39 AM Subject: [AccessD] 1st Anglo-Australian DBA Conference Hi All: The 1st Anglo-Australian DBA Conference was held a short while ago. It may have been small but it is a start. www.databaseadvisors.com Jim -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From martyconnelly at shaw.ca Mon Mar 29 19:45:24 2004 From: martyconnelly at shaw.ca (MartyConnelly) Date: Mon, 29 Mar 2004 17:45:24 -0800 Subject: [AccessD] Lookup Fields in Table Design References: Message-ID: <4068D134.5060905@shaw.ca> I was hoping for "Bounders" and "Cads" John Bartow wrote: >I guess maybe "nay-sayers" had a negative connotation to it. > >Next time I think I'll call the opposing views "Shirts" and "Skins". Maybe >we'll get more people participating :o) > >-----Original Message----- >From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com >[mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of >DWUTKA at marlow.com >Sent: Monday, March 29, 2004 3:51 PM >To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com >Subject: RE: [AccessD] Lookup Fields in Table Design > > >Thank you. I've had my opinion changed on this list before too. And I >always learn something new in here. But I was wondering if I was starting >to lose it, because I hadn't seen any solid 'evidence' from the nay-sayers. >That's all I was asking for. Reproducable results. It was very easy for me >to reproduce the Date Table 'examples', and see that they are definitely >more efficient then using calculations in a query, for sorting and >searching. > >Just haven't seen anything like that with the Lookup topic. Which isn't >surprising though. It is something that has been mystified in the >'relational database' world. It's in books, on the web, and thus is >defended simply by pointing to other references. Those are the hardest >walls to topple. It's a paradigm. > >Drew > >-----Original Message----- >From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com >[mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of John Bartow >Sent: Monday, March 29, 2004 3:16 PM >To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving >Subject: RE: [AccessD] Lookup Fields in Table Design > > >I started the thread decidely not using lookup properties for the past 5 >years because of the overwhelming attitude among developers that it >shouldn't be used. (IIRC that's when I first read Dev's "10 Commandments".) > >I had no "side" in this debate other than pointing out weaknesses I saw in >specific arguments (and being "cutesy" at times) Rarely is someone go to >fully switch "sides" in a debate. (So I don't expect everyone to agree with >me.) I believe that, based on this thread, the people who argued that it is >OK to use lookup properties have won the day. > >Unless someone comes up with a solid reason why it should never be used I >will not hesitate to use it again when the situation warrants. > >I challenge anyone to use facts to convince me otherwise. In fact I would >very much appreciate it. And I'll buy you a few if you can do so! > >John "always open to the facts" Bartow > > >-----Original Message----- >From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com >[mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Charlotte >Foust >Sent: Monday, March 29, 2004 2:44 PM >To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving >Subject: RE: [AccessD] Lookup Fields in Table Design > > >Forget it. You insist that your opinion carried the day. Go right >ahead and believe it, but don't expect everyone else to agree. > >Charlotte Foust > > >-- >_______________________________________________ >AccessD mailing list >AccessD at databaseadvisors.com >http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd >Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com >-- >_______________________________________________ >AccessD mailing list >AccessD at databaseadvisors.com >http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd >Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > > -- Marty Connelly Victoria, B.C. Canada From SDSSoftware at optusnet.com.au Mon Mar 29 19:52:10 2004 From: SDSSoftware at optusnet.com.au (Kath Pelletti) Date: Tue, 30 Mar 2004 11:52:10 +1000 Subject: [AccessD] OT: A survey from somebody not as well-connected as JC References: <20040329101610.2131078867.serbach@new.rr.com> Message-ID: <02e401c415f9$9e1012b0$6401a8c0@user> Hi Steven: 1. My business (only 4 years old) has been 80% just using Access to develop systems - sometimes as a runtime or just as a standard FE / BE setup. And I do have some prototypes for some standard functions / setups I use and try to make them as modular as possible so that they can easily be added / removed. My background is (20 years ago - programmer Cobol / RPG) then AP then Bus. Analyst so I am starting to do more work in analysis and project management and I find that with so much IT stuff outsourced there is a demand for experienced business analysts. This year my biggest client was taken over by an company who is very Anti-Microsoft so having paid me for an Access / Outlook runtime system which they had up and running very successfully, they then pulled the plug on it, insisting that it be re-written in Lotus notes. So I offered to project manage it for them and that has been this year's focus. 2. I have also had the learn more about web applications - using asp and html in general. Again, I have done sub contracting to pull in some experts while I work with them and learn as much as possible. I need to build on this web knowledge in 2004. --- I agree with Rocky's statement that there is money to be made in on-sales but that is an area I haven't explored greatly. No .Net development yet. Kath ----- Original Message ----- From: Steven W. Erbach To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Sent: Tuesday, March 30, 2004 2:16 AM Subject: [AccessD] OT: A survey from somebody not as well-connected as JC Dear Group, This is for the independent developers only. If you work for a company and you'd like to take the survey, just let me know that you're not an independent developer when you reply. I'm curious about what you independent developers have had to learn to keep up with the changing marketplace. 1) If you've managed to maintain a significant clientele by developing Access applications, what have you done to sharpen your skills to make you more attractive as the developer of choice in a competitive field? That is, have you developed a framework like JC, or have you gone more towards developing front ends for SQL back ends like Arthur? 2) If you've moved away from Access development as your primary source of income, what other platforms have you learned to make a living? Do you now do mostly .NET development, ASP, SQL Server, PHP, what? 3) If you're doing .NET development, what kind of things are you doing? Has it lived up to the hype? Last year about this time I was searching the want ads for positions before I decided to stick with my own business. I was amused by the ads that profiled the "ideal" candidate as one who had deep .NET experience. The stinking product had only officially been on the market for one whole year with another year in beta before that. Sheesh! Have you seen any real live .NET implementations that are worth bragging about...or have you created any? In short, what have you had to do to make yourself useful as an independent developer? I know that William works quite a bit with SBS and LANs. Have any of you developed proficiency with cabling and routers and such to increase your marketability? Do you do any security consulting, say? Do you build custom-order PCs? Do you do LAN management, e-mail server management and setup, web site development? One final thing: Years ago when I started I took advantage of the swing of the pendulum that put PC power in users' hands. That is, the PC was a great analysis tool for mainframe data. Lotus 1-2-3, dBASE III, Paradox, etc., were the tools that enabled users and departments to fiddle with the data without having to wait for the IT department to get around to their little pissant application requests. Now the pendulum has swung the other way. Security concerns and scalability and distributed networks / VPNs and web-based database applications have all made the pendulum swing back towards centralized control...and the IT guys are loving it. Or am I reading it wrong? What do you think? Regards, Steve Erbach Scientific Marketing Neenah, WI 920-969-0504 Security and Virus information: http://www.swerbach.com/security -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From bchacc at san.rr.com Mon Mar 29 20:27:40 2004 From: bchacc at san.rr.com (Rocky Smolin - Beach Access Software) Date: Mon, 29 Mar 2004 18:27:40 -0800 Subject: [AccessD] OT: A survey from somebody not as well-connected as JC References: <20040329101610.2131078867.serbach@new.rr.com> <02e401c415f9$9e1012b0$6401a8c0@user> Message-ID: <015001c415fe$93422a80$6601a8c0@HAL9002> Kath: What package do you use to deploy your runtimes? Rocky ----- Original Message ----- From: "Kath Pelletti" To: "Access Developers discussion and problem solving" Sent: Monday, March 29, 2004 5:52 PM Subject: Re: [AccessD] OT: A survey from somebody not as well-connected as JC Hi Steven: 1. My business (only 4 years old) has been 80% just using Access to develop systems - sometimes as a runtime or just as a standard FE / BE setup. And I do have some prototypes for some standard functions / setups I use and try to make them as modular as possible so that they can easily be added / removed. My background is (20 years ago - programmer Cobol / RPG) then AP then Bus. Analyst so I am starting to do more work in analysis and project management and I find that with so much IT stuff outsourced there is a demand for experienced business analysts. This year my biggest client was taken over by an company who is very Anti-Microsoft so having paid me for an Access / Outlook runtime system which they had up and running very successfully, they then pulled the plug on it, insisting that it be re-written in Lotus notes. So I offered to project manage it for them and that has been this year's focus. 2. I have also had the learn more about web applications - using asp and html in general. Again, I have done sub contracting to pull in some experts while I work with them and learn as much as possible. I need to build on this web knowledge in 2004. --- I agree with Rocky's statement that there is money to be made in on-sales but that is an area I haven't explored greatly. No .Net development yet. Kath ----- Original Message ----- From: Steven W. Erbach To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Sent: Tuesday, March 30, 2004 2:16 AM Subject: [AccessD] OT: A survey from somebody not as well-connected as JC Dear Group, This is for the independent developers only. If you work for a company and you'd like to take the survey, just let me know that you're not an independent developer when you reply. I'm curious about what you independent developers have had to learn to keep up with the changing marketplace. 1) If you've managed to maintain a significant clientele by developing Access applications, what have you done to sharpen your skills to make you more attractive as the developer of choice in a competitive field? That is, have you developed a framework like JC, or have you gone more towards developing front ends for SQL back ends like Arthur? 2) If you've moved away from Access development as your primary source of income, what other platforms have you learned to make a living? Do you now do mostly .NET development, ASP, SQL Server, PHP, what? 3) If you're doing .NET development, what kind of things are you doing? Has it lived up to the hype? Last year about this time I was searching the want ads for positions before I decided to stick with my own business. I was amused by the ads that profiled the "ideal" candidate as one who had deep .NET experience. The stinking product had only officially been on the market for one whole year with another year in beta before that. Sheesh! Have you seen any real live .NET implementations that are worth bragging about...or have you created any? In short, what have you had to do to make yourself useful as an independent developer? I know that William works quite a bit with SBS and LANs. Have any of you developed proficiency with cabling and routers and such to increase your marketability? Do you do any security consulting, say? Do you build custom-order PCs? Do you do LAN management, e-mail server management and setup, web site development? One final thing: Years ago when I started I took advantage of the swing of the pendulum that put PC power in users' hands. That is, the PC was a great analysis tool for mainframe data. Lotus 1-2-3, dBASE III, Paradox, etc., were the tools that enabled users and departments to fiddle with the data without having to wait for the IT department to get around to their little pissant application requests. Now the pendulum has swung the other way. Security concerns and scalability and distributed networks / VPNs and web-based database applications have all made the pendulum swing back towards centralized control...and the IT guys are loving it. Or am I reading it wrong? What do you think? Regards, Steve Erbach Scientific Marketing Neenah, WI 920-969-0504 Security and Virus information: http://www.swerbach.com/security -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From SDSSoftware at optusnet.com.au Mon Mar 29 20:31:46 2004 From: SDSSoftware at optusnet.com.au (Kath Pelletti) Date: Tue, 30 Mar 2004 12:31:46 +1000 Subject: [AccessD] OT: A survey from somebody not as well-connected as JC References: <20040329101610.2131078867.serbach@new.rr.com><02e401c415f9$9e1012b0$6401a8c0@user> <015001c415fe$93422a80$6601a8c0@HAL9002> Message-ID: <034e01c415ff$260d5bf0$6401a8c0@user> Wise / Sagekey ----- Original Message ----- From: Rocky Smolin - Beach Access Software To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Sent: Tuesday, March 30, 2004 12:27 PM Subject: Re: [AccessD] OT: A survey from somebody not as well-connected as JC Kath: What package do you use to deploy your runtimes? Rocky ----- Original Message ----- From: "Kath Pelletti" To: "Access Developers discussion and problem solving" Sent: Monday, March 29, 2004 5:52 PM Subject: Re: [AccessD] OT: A survey from somebody not as well-connected as JC Hi Steven: 1. My business (only 4 years old) has been 80% just using Access to develop systems - sometimes as a runtime or just as a standard FE / BE setup. And I do have some prototypes for some standard functions / setups I use and try to make them as modular as possible so that they can easily be added / removed. My background is (20 years ago - programmer Cobol / RPG) then AP then Bus. Analyst so I am starting to do more work in analysis and project management and I find that with so much IT stuff outsourced there is a demand for experienced business analysts. This year my biggest client was taken over by an company who is very Anti-Microsoft so having paid me for an Access / Outlook runtime system which they had up and running very successfully, they then pulled the plug on it, insisting that it be re-written in Lotus notes. So I offered to project manage it for them and that has been this year's focus. 2. I have also had the learn more about web applications - using asp and html in general. Again, I have done sub contracting to pull in some experts while I work with them and learn as much as possible. I need to build on this web knowledge in 2004. --- I agree with Rocky's statement that there is money to be made in on-sales but that is an area I haven't explored greatly. No .Net development yet. Kath ----- Original Message ----- From: Steven W. Erbach To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Sent: Tuesday, March 30, 2004 2:16 AM Subject: [AccessD] OT: A survey from somebody not as well-connected as JC Dear Group, This is for the independent developers only. If you work for a company and you'd like to take the survey, just let me know that you're not an independent developer when you reply. I'm curious about what you independent developers have had to learn to keep up with the changing marketplace. 1) If you've managed to maintain a significant clientele by developing Access applications, what have you done to sharpen your skills to make you more attractive as the developer of choice in a competitive field? That is, have you developed a framework like JC, or have you gone more towards developing front ends for SQL back ends like Arthur? 2) If you've moved away from Access development as your primary source of income, what other platforms have you learned to make a living? Do you now do mostly .NET development, ASP, SQL Server, PHP, what? 3) If you're doing .NET development, what kind of things are you doing? Has it lived up to the hype? Last year about this time I was searching the want ads for positions before I decided to stick with my own business. I was amused by the ads that profiled the "ideal" candidate as one who had deep .NET experience. The stinking product had only officially been on the market for one whole year with another year in beta before that. Sheesh! Have you seen any real live .NET implementations that are worth bragging about...or have you created any? In short, what have you had to do to make yourself useful as an independent developer? I know that William works quite a bit with SBS and LANs. Have any of you developed proficiency with cabling and routers and such to increase your marketability? Do you do any security consulting, say? Do you build custom-order PCs? Do you do LAN management, e-mail server management and setup, web site development? One final thing: Years ago when I started I took advantage of the swing of the pendulum that put PC power in users' hands. That is, the PC was a great analysis tool for mainframe data. Lotus 1-2-3, dBASE III, Paradox, etc., were the tools that enabled users and departments to fiddle with the data without having to wait for the IT department to get around to their little pissant application requests. Now the pendulum has swung the other way. Security concerns and scalability and distributed networks / VPNs and web-based database applications have all made the pendulum swing back towards centralized control...and the IT guys are loving it. Or am I reading it wrong? What do you think? Regards, Steve Erbach Scientific Marketing Neenah, WI 920-969-0504 Security and Virus information: http://www.swerbach.com/security -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From serbach at new.rr.com Mon Mar 29 21:16:12 2004 From: serbach at new.rr.com (Steven W. Erbach) Date: Mon, 29 Mar 2004 21:16:12 -0600 Subject: [AccessD] OT: A survey from somebody not as well-connected as JC Message-ID: <20040329211612.710613534.serbach@new.rr.com> William, >> ...don't take this the wrong way << I won't. I appreciate your point of view. I have gotten caught up in the tools as if owning the right brand of socket wrench will guarantee me a living. But I hear you on the client-centered approach. I've worked on lots of things that were outside of my skill-set comfort zone. I talked with a friend recently about my business and he asked if there was anything I specialized in. I told him no; my business is producing custom solutions to solve customer problems. He recommended a product-centered approach, like what Rocky is aiming for. I have a long-term care facility marketing and donations program I wrote that might fill the bill. We'll see. >> ...but I'm just me and don't have any intention of ever working hard again << Not really an option for me as we're having some tough times financially. I can dig the varietal nature of your work, though. Thanks. Regards, Steve Erbach Scientific Marketing Neenah, WI "You must be an intellectual. No normal person would say a thing like that." - George Orwell From SDSSoftware at optusnet.com.au Mon Mar 29 21:14:55 2004 From: SDSSoftware at optusnet.com.au (Kath Pelletti) Date: Tue, 30 Mar 2004 13:14:55 +1000 Subject: [AccessD] OT: A survey from somebody not as well-connected as JC References: <20040329211612.710613534.serbach@new.rr.com> Message-ID: <000b01c41605$2dc2df90$6401a8c0@user> Steve - what sort of work have you been doing mostly? Which tools do you use the most? Kath ----- Original Message ----- From: Steven W. Erbach To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Sent: Tuesday, March 30, 2004 1:16 PM Subject: Re: [AccessD] OT: A survey from somebody not as well-connected as JC William, >> ...don't take this the wrong way << I won't. I appreciate your point of view. I have gotten caught up in the tools as if owning the right brand of socket wrench will guarantee me a living. But I hear you on the client-centered approach. I've worked on lots of things that were outside of my skill-set comfort zone. I talked with a friend recently about my business and he asked if there was anything I specialized in. I told him no; my business is producing custom solutions to solve customer problems. He recommended a product-centered approach, like what Rocky is aiming for. I have a long-term care facility marketing and donations program I wrote that might fill the bill. We'll see. >> ...but I'm just me and don't have any intention of ever working hard again << Not really an option for me as we're having some tough times financially. I can dig the varietal nature of your work, though. Thanks. Regards, Steve Erbach Scientific Marketing Neenah, WI "You must be an intellectual. No normal person would say a thing like that." - George Orwell -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From serbach at new.rr.com Mon Mar 29 21:19:59 2004 From: serbach at new.rr.com (Steven W. Erbach) Date: Mon, 29 Mar 2004 21:19:59 -0600 Subject: [AccessD] OT: A survey from somebody not as well-connected as JC Message-ID: <20040329211959.101380996.serbach@new.rr.com> Kath, Thanks for you reply. >> So I offered to project manage it for them and that has been this year's focus. << Congratulations for landing on your feet there! >> I need to build on this web knowledge in 2004. << Ditto. I wish you luck. Regards, Steve Erbach Scientific Marketing Neenah, WI 920-969-0504 Security and Virus information: http://www.swerbach.com/security From KIsmert at TexasSystems.com Mon Mar 29 22:42:10 2004 From: KIsmert at TexasSystems.com (Ken Ismert) Date: Mon, 29 Mar 2004 22:42:10 -0600 Subject: [AccessD] Lookup Fields in Table Design In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <007801c41611$5de76f40$2a3ca8c0@TEXASSYSTEMS.COM> Andy: You'll be happy to hear that this is my last post on this subject. I had intended to rest after my last post, but since John has asked me to clarify my position, I will do so, as succinctly as possible. My remarks will fall under three topics: general response, how table field lookups (TFLs) can compromise relational integrity, and a summary of my failure analysis. General Response ================ I suppose my mindset is different from my opponents. In mathematics, a postulate, no matter how seductive, can be disproven by a single counter-example. In engineering, a structural design, no matter how beautiful, will have to be corrected or compensated for if a single failure mode can be demonstrated. The data we engineer is no less real than lemmas or steel. My first responsibility is to the integrity of the data entrusted to me. Thus, failure analysis matters to me. Given a choice between a path that offers risk, no matter how slight, and another which offers equivalent results with no risk, I will take the latter every time. My duty to the data demands it. Drew, you said on 3/26/2004 that "the problem is that Lookup fields do NOT cause corruption.". I have now proven two cases where they do. You have made your points. But your refusal to allow for even a caveat on this topic is intellectually dishonest. You simply cannot claim that you are 100% correct. Why is this so hard for you to admit? But seriously, with your cavalier dismissal of potential causes of failure, I'm glad you didn't choose to be an engineer. I sure as hell wouldn't want to drive across any bridge you design. Of course data errors matter, if not to you, then certainly to the owners of the data. But, rather than follow my opponent's example of loudly and longly belittling the other side, adding nothing but rehashed versions of what he's said now dozens of times before, I have two NEW items to contribute. How TFLs Compromise Relational Integrity ======================================== Take two US divisions of a company: East and West. This company had a better data designer, who defined tblStates with three fields: ID - autonumber, Code - text, and Name - text. Better still, referential integrity was established with the ID foreign key in tblAddresses. Of course, TFLs were defined for the table/lookup pair. The only small, tiny flaw is, the data was entered differently for each division: East entered theirs in Name order, while West did theirs in State Postal Code order. So now we have two tables, with identical logical content, that have different IDs for most of the records. But both sets of IDs are numbered 1 to 50. So, the fateful day comes along when East wants to do a nationwide mailing, and requests West's database. West sends their copy, and East simply links West's tblAddresses into their front-end, creating tblAddresses1. Opening up tblAddresses1, everything looks great: every record has a state code -- no missing data. East does their mass mailing using a query off of tblAddresses1, and gets back a huge pile of returns for bad addresses. What has happened, of course, is the TFL in West's tblAddresses has cross-linked with East's tblStates, with autonumber IDs that transposed the state codes. Naturally, if East decided to help West and enter new addresses, relational integrity would allow it, because it cares only that the foreign key exists in the proper lookup table, not what it represents. The large potential weakness here is that if you look at any two tables with autonumber keys, there is almost always a large overlap in autonumber ID values. Under the right conditions, if you cross-link a smaller table to a larger table via TFLs, you might never notice until you have hose your data, ruined an audit, etc. So, TFLs can defeat even referential integrity. TFL Failure Analysis ==================== In front-end/backend applications, TFLs fail when their external context assumptions are violated. Assumption 1: The external lookup table will always exist. Path of failure: You don't link the lookup table in the front-end, or rename the link. No table with the same name exists. Consequences: Intermittent errors. Queries relying on TFL don't show expected values. Assumption 2: The external lookup table will always match the internal name. Path of failure: The correct lookup table is linked when another table of the same name exists, or is not linked when a table of the same name exists Failure Mode 1: One or more fields referenced in the lookup SQL do not exist. Consequences: Errors. Lookup values not properly displayed. Failure Mode 2: All fields referenced in the lookup SQL exist. Consequences: No errors. Inconsistent/incorrect data displayed. * If no referential integrity defined, data entry is possible using values from the wrong lookup table. * If referential integrity is defined on Autonumber ID's, integrity will be defeated where the ID in the wrong lookup table has a match in the correct one. From accessd667 at yahoo.com Tue Mar 30 01:37:33 2004 From: accessd667 at yahoo.com (S D) Date: Mon, 29 Mar 2004 23:37:33 -0800 (PST) Subject: [AccessD] Importing data using a Class..Who can help/review? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <20040330073733.77472.qmail@web61101.mail.yahoo.com> OK, I wanted to add a minidb but a message has a max size of 30KB... I've added the code I use in the following order: Form Module Class I've got the following questions: Q1: I'm calling the method SaveLine via a function ImportInterface. I don't think that this is very good programming. How can I improve this? Q2: I'm not using properties. Do I need them? For what and why? Q3: If anyone has more tips... Form Code Private Sub cmdReadFile_Click() Dim intInterfaceID As Integer intInterfaceID = cboImport Call ImportInterface(cboImport, "D:\Temp Projecten\Access\Interface.dat") End Sub Module '========================================================================================= ' Function Name : ImportInterface ' Parameters : intInterfaceID, strFilename ' Purpose : inserts every line of the interface into tblData ' Assumptions : --- ' Uses : --- ' Created : 2004-03-29 07:56, SaDe ' Modifications : '========================================================================================= Public Sub ImportInterface(intInterfaceID As Integer, strFilename As String) Dim objFSO As FileSystemObject Dim objTS As TextStream Dim strCurrentLine As String Dim strSQL As String Dim dtmCurrentDate As Date Dim intLineID As Integer Dim cInterface As cInterface Dim cnnConnection As ADODB.Connection Dim blnSaveLineOK As Boolean On Error GoTo ImportInterface_Error Set cnnConnection = CurrentProject.Connection Set objFSO = New FileSystemObject Set objTS = objFSO.OpenTextFile(strFilename) Set cInterface = New cInterface blnSaveLineOK = False intLineID = 1 cnnConnection.BeginTrans Do While Not objTS.AtEndOfStream 'strCurrentLine = objTS.ReadLine blnSaveLineOK = cInterface.SaveLine(cnnConnection, intInterfaceID, intLineID, objTS.ReadLine) intLineID = intLineID + 1 Loop 'Check if method executed correct If blnSaveLineOK Then cnnConnection.CommitTrans Call MsgBox("Interface imported!", vbInformation) Else cnnConnection.RollbackTrans Call MsgBox("An error occured!", vbCritical) End If Set cnnConnection = Nothing Exit Sub ImportInterface_Exit: ' Collect your garbage here cnnConnection.RollbackTrans Set cnnConnection = Nothing Exit Sub ImportInterface_Error: ' Collect your garbage here MsgBox "An Error Occured!!!" & Err.Number & ";" & Err.Description End Sub class cInterface Function SaveLine(cnnConnection As ADODB.Connection, intInterfaceID As Integer, intLineID As Integer, strLine As String) As Boolean Dim rstInterfaceData As ADODB.Recordset On Error GoTo SaveLine_Error Set rstInterfaceData = New ADODB.Recordset With rstInterfaceData .ActiveConnection = cnnConnection .CursorType = adOpenKeyset .LockType = adLockOptimistic .Source = "SELECT * FROM tblInterfaceData" .Open .AddNew !InterfaceID = intInterfaceID !InterfaceDate = Format(Now) !InterfaceLine = intLineID !InterfaceData = strLine .Update End With Set rstInterfaceData = Nothing 'Set cnnConnection = Nothing SaveLine = True SaveLine_Exit: ' Collect your garbage here Set rstInterfaceData = Nothing 'Set cnnConnection = Nothing Exit Function SaveLine_Error: ' Collect your garbage here SaveLine = False Call MsgBox(Err.Number & vbCrLf & _ Err.Description & vbCrLf & _ Err.Source & vbCrLf & _ "Newest.cInterface.SaveLine", vbCritical) Resume SaveLine_Exit End Function rsmethurst at uk.ey.com wrote: Sure Sander... I will. Cheers Ryan S D Sent by: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com 29/03/2004 14:46 Please respond to Access Developers discussion and problem solving To: accessd cc: Subject: [AccessD] Importing data using a Class..Who can help/review? Hi group, I'm building a little app that is able to import textfiles. I want to do this using a class. I've made a start and it works! Does anybody have the time/interest to shoot at it? It's very basic. I've got: a class called: cInterface a method called: SaveLine TIA Sander --------------------------------- Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Finance Tax Center - File online. File on time. -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com This e-mail and any attachment are confidential and contain proprietary information, some or all of which may be legally privileged. It is intended solely for the use of the individual or entity to which it is addressed. If you are not the intended recipient, please notify the author immediately by telephone or by replying to this e-mail, and then delete all copies of the e-mail on your system. If you are not the intended recipient, you must not use, disclose, distribute, copy, print or rely on this e-mail. Whilst we have taken reasonable precautions to ensure that this e-mail and any attachment has been checked for viruses, we cannot guarantee that they are virus free and we cannot accept liability for any damage sustained as a result of software viruses. We would advise that you carry out your own virus checks, especially before opening an attachment. The UK firm Ernst & Young LLP is a limited liability partnership registered in England and Wales with registered number OC300001 and is a member practice of Ernst & Young Global. A list of members? names is available for inspection at 1 More London Place, London, SE1 2AF, the firm?s principal place of business and its registered office. -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com --------------------------------- Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Finance Tax Center - File online. File on time. From mwp.reid at qub.ac.uk Tue Mar 30 02:00:09 2004 From: mwp.reid at qub.ac.uk (Martin Reid) Date: Tue, 30 Mar 2004 09:00:09 +0100 Subject: [AccessD] SQL Question - Urgent References: Message-ID: <000901c4162d$055d3370$9111758f@aine> Stuck on this Has to be done in SQL if possible as they want to use it as the criteria in a query Need to work out the following using SQL If D1 > D2 or D1 = D2 Then TM= A+B+C1+D1 Else TM= A+B+C1+D2 Next One is A+B+ Higher of (C1+D1) OR (C2+D2) Martin From accessd667 at yahoo.com Tue Mar 30 03:03:33 2004 From: accessd667 at yahoo.com (S D) Date: Tue, 30 Mar 2004 01:03:33 -0800 (PST) Subject: [AccessD] SQL Question - Urgent In-Reply-To: <000901c4162d$055d3370$9111758f@aine> Message-ID: <20040330090333.14022.qmail@web61104.mail.yahoo.com> I'm not sure but I don't think that this CAN be done with SQL. You'll have to use PL/SQL...but that's Oracle. Sander Martin Reid wrote: Stuck on this Has to be done in SQL if possible as they want to use it as the criteria in a query Need to work out the following using SQL If D1 > D2 or D1 = D2 Then TM= A+B+C1+D1 Else TM= A+B+C1+D2 Next One is A+B+ Higher of (C1+D1) OR (C2+D2) Martin -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com --------------------------------- Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Finance Tax Center - File online. File on time. From gustav at cactus.dk Tue Mar 30 03:04:09 2004 From: gustav at cactus.dk (Gustav Brock) Date: Tue, 30 Mar 2004 11:04:09 +0200 Subject: [AccessD] SQL Question - Urgent In-Reply-To: <000901c4162d$055d3370$9111758f@aine> References: <000901c4162d$055d3370$9111758f@aine> Message-ID: <57777513.20040330110409@cactus.dk> Hi Martin > Has to be done in SQL if possible as they want to use it as the criteria in > a query > Need to work out the following using SQL > If D1 > D2 or D1 = D2 Then > TM= A+B+C1+D1 > Else > TM= A+B+C1+D2 That could be: TM: A + B + C1 + IIf(D1 >= D2, D1, D2) or: TM: A + B + C1 + (ABS(D1 >= D2) * D1) + (ABS(D1 < D2) * D2) > Next One is > A+B+ Higher of (C1+D1) OR (C2+D2) How about: X: A + B + IIf((C1 + D1) > (C2 + D2), C1 + D1, C2 + D2) or using ABS() as above. /gustav From mwp.reid at qub.ac.uk Tue Mar 30 03:15:03 2004 From: mwp.reid at qub.ac.uk (Martin Reid) Date: Tue, 30 Mar 2004 10:15:03 +0100 Subject: [AccessD] SQL Question - Urgent References: <000901c4162d$055d3370$9111758f@aine> <57777513.20040330110409@cactus.dk> Message-ID: <000d01c41637$7c35f5e0$9111758f@aine> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Gustav Brock" To: "Access Developers discussion and problem solving" Sent: Tuesday, March 30, 2004 10:04 AM Subject: Re: [AccessD] SQL Question - Urgent > Hi Martin > > > Has to be done in SQL if possible as they want to use it as the criteria in > > a query > > > Need to work out the following using SQL > > > If D1 > D2 or D1 = D2 Then > > > TM= A+B+C1+D1 > > > Else > > > TM= A+B+C1+D2 > > That could be: > > TM: A + B + C1 + IIf(D1 >= D2, D1, D2) > > or: > > TM: A + B + C1 + (ABS(D1 >= D2) * D1) + (ABS(D1 < D2) * D2) > > > > Next One is > > > A+B+ Higher of (C1+D1) OR (C2+D2) > > How about: > > X: A + B + IIf((C1 + D1) > (C2 + D2), C1 + D1, C2 + D2) > > or using ABS() as above. > > /gustav > > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > From mwp.reid at qub.ac.uk Tue Mar 30 03:15:38 2004 From: mwp.reid at qub.ac.uk (Martin Reid) Date: Tue, 30 Mar 2004 10:15:38 +0100 Subject: [AccessD] SQL Question - Urgent References: <000901c4162d$055d3370$9111758f@aine> <57777513.20040330110409@cactus.dk> Message-ID: <001101c41637$91366510$9111758f@aine> Thanks Gustav. Got it working using the uqery and the IIF Martin ----- Original Message ----- From: "Gustav Brock" To: "Access Developers discussion and problem solving" Sent: Tuesday, March 30, 2004 10:04 AM Subject: Re: [AccessD] SQL Question - Urgent > Hi Martin > > > Has to be done in SQL if possible as they want to use it as the criteria in > > a query > > > Need to work out the following using SQL > > > If D1 > D2 or D1 = D2 Then > > > TM= A+B+C1+D1 > > > Else > > > TM= A+B+C1+D2 > > That could be: > > TM: A + B + C1 + IIf(D1 >= D2, D1, D2) > > or: > > TM: A + B + C1 + (ABS(D1 >= D2) * D1) + (ABS(D1 < D2) * D2) > > > > Next One is > > > A+B+ Higher of (C1+D1) OR (C2+D2) > > How about: > > X: A + B + IIf((C1 + D1) > (C2 + D2), C1 + D1, C2 + D2) > > or using ABS() as above. > > /gustav > > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > From andy at minstersystems.co.uk Tue Mar 30 04:19:37 2004 From: andy at minstersystems.co.uk (Andy Lacey) Date: Tue, 30 Mar 2004 10:19:37 +0000 Subject: [AccessD] Importing data using a Class..Who can help/review? Message-ID: <20040330091935.ACF64250060@smtp.nildram.co.uk> Sorry Sander, if you want to send an mdb you'll have to do so direct, ie off-list. -- Andy Lacey http://www.minstersystems.co.uk --------- Original Message -------- From: Access Developers discussion and problem solving To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Importing data using a Class..Who can help/review? Date: 30/03/04 07:39 > > OK, I wanted to add a minidb but a message has a max size of 30KB... > > I've added the code I use in the following order: > Form > Module > Class > > I've got the following questions: > Q1: I'm calling the method SaveLine via a function ImportInterface. I don't think that this is very good programming. > How can I improve this? > Q2: I'm not using properties. Do I need them? For what and why? > > Q3: If anyone has more tips... > > Form Code > Private Sub cmdReadFile_Click() > Dim intInterfaceID As Integer > > intInterfaceID = cboImport > > Call ImportInterface(cboImport, "D:Temp ProjectenAccessInterface.dat") > End Sub > > Module > > '========================================================================================= > ' Function Name : ImportInterface > ' Parameters : intInterfaceID, strFilename > ' Purpose : inserts every line of the interface into tblData > ' Assumptions : --- > ' Uses : --- > ' Created : 2004-03-29 07:56, SaDe > ' Modifications : > '========================================================================================= > Public Sub ImportInterface(intInterfaceID As Integer, strFilename As String) > Dim objFSO As FileSystemObject > Dim objTS As TextStream > Dim strCurrentLine As String > Dim strSQL As String > Dim dtmCurrentDate As Date > Dim intLineID As Integer > Dim cInterface As cInterface > Dim cnnConnection As ADODB.Connection > Dim blnSaveLineOK As Boolean > > On Error GoTo ImportInterface_Error > > Set cnnConnection = CurrentProject.Connection > Set objFSO = New FileSystemObject > Set objTS = objFSO.OpenTextFile(strFilename) > Set cInterface = New cInterface > > blnSaveLineOK = False > > intLineID = 1 > cnnConnection.BeginTrans > > Do While Not objTS.AtEndOfStream > 'strCurrentLine = objTS.ReadLine > blnSaveLineOK = cInterface.SaveLine(cnnConnection, intInterfaceID, intLineID, objTS.ReadLine) > intLineID = intLineID + 1 > Loop > > 'Check if method executed correct > If blnSaveLineOK Then > cnnConnection.CommitTrans > Call MsgBox("Interface imported!", vbInformation) > Else > cnnConnection.RollbackTrans > Call MsgBox("An error occured!", vbCritical) > End If > > Set cnnConnection = Nothing > > Exit Sub > ImportInterface_Exit: > ' Collect your garbage here > cnnConnection.RollbackTrans > Set cnnConnection = Nothing > > Exit Sub > ImportInterface_Error: > ' Collect your garbage here > MsgBox "An Error Occured!!!" & Err.Number & ";" & Err.Description > End Sub > > class cInterface > Function SaveLine(cnnConnection As ADODB.Connection, intInterfaceID As Integer, intLineID As Integer, strLine As String) As Boolean > Dim rstInterfaceData As ADODB.Recordset > > On Error GoTo SaveLine_Error > Set rstInterfaceData = New ADODB.Recordset > > With rstInterfaceData > .ActiveConnection = cnnConnection > .CursorType = adOpenKeyset > .LockType = adLockOptimistic > .Source = "SELECT * FROM tblInterfaceData" > .Open > > .AddNew > !InterfaceID = intInterfaceID > !InterfaceDate = Format(Now) > !InterfaceLine = intLineID > !InterfaceData = strLine > .Update > End With > > Set rstInterfaceData = Nothing > 'Set cnnConnection = Nothing > SaveLine = True > SaveLine_Exit: > ' Collect your garbage here > Set rstInterfaceData = Nothing > 'Set cnnConnection = Nothing > Exit Function > > SaveLine_Error: > ' Collect your garbage here > SaveLine = False > Call MsgBox(Err.Number & vbCrLf & _ > Err.Description & vbCrLf & _ > Err.Source & vbCrLf & _ > "Newest.cInterface.SaveLine", vbCritical) > Resume SaveLine_Exit > End Function > > > rsmethurst at uk.ey.com wrote: > Sure Sander... > > I will. > > Cheers > Ryan > > > > > S D > Sent by: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > 29/03/2004 14:46 > Please respond to Access Developers discussion and problem solving > > > To: accessd > cc: > Subject: [AccessD] Importing data using a Class..Who can help/review? > > > Hi group, > > I'm building a little app that is able to import textfiles. I want to do > this using a class. I've made a start and it works! Does anybody have the > time/interest to shoot at it? > > It's very basic. > I've got: > a class called: cInterface > a method called: SaveLine > > TIA > > Sander > > > > --------------------------------- > Do you Yahoo!? > Yahoo! Finance Tax Center - File online. File on time. > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > > > > This e-mail and any attachment are confidential and contain proprietary information, some or all of which may be legally privileged. It is intended solely for the use of the individual or entity to which it is addressed. If you are not the intended recipient, please notify the author immediately by telephone or by replying to this e-mail, and then delete all copies of the e-mail on your system. If you are not the intended recipient, you must not use, disclose, distribute, copy, print or rely on this e-mail. > > Whilst we have taken reasonable precautions to ensure that this e-mail and any attachment has been checked for viruses, we cannot guarantee that they are virus free and we cannot accept liability for any damage sustained as a result of software viruses. We would advise that you carry out your own virus checks, especially before opening an attachment. > > The UK firm Ernst & Young LLP is a limited liability partnership registered in England and Wales with registered number OC300001 and is a member practice of Ernst & Young Global. A list of members? names is available for inspection at 1 More London Place, London, SE1 2AF, the firm?s principal place of business and its registered office. > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > --------------------------------- > Do you Yahoo!? > Yahoo! Finance Tax Center - File online. File on time. > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > > > ________________________________________________ Message sent using UebiMiau 2.7.2 From gustav at cactus.dk Tue Mar 30 03:10:19 2004 From: gustav at cactus.dk (Gustav Brock) Date: Tue, 30 Mar 2004 11:10:19 +0200 Subject: [AccessD] Slightly OT In-Reply-To: <20040329170358.1651494451.serbach@new.rr.com> References: <20040329170358.1651494451.serbach@new.rr.com> Message-ID: <1528147715.20040330111019@cactus.dk> Hi Steven This must be the comment of the week! I'm sure Susan kept his copy, just to protect him ... /gustav >>> We want to take a couple of hundred Access databases and move them to SQL Server. WHat sort of problems do you see in terms of...<< > Um, Martin? Don't I own a book with your name on it called "SQL: Access to SQL Server?" > Regards, > Steve Erbach > Scientific Marketing > Neenah, WI > 920-969-0504 > "Don't light a match 'til ya know which end of the dog is barkin'." - Dave Barry From gustav at cactus.dk Tue Mar 30 03:25:32 2004 From: gustav at cactus.dk (Gustav Brock) Date: Tue, 30 Mar 2004 11:25:32 +0200 Subject: [AccessD] Slightly OT In-Reply-To: <003101c415c6$9b04d6b0$1b02a8c0@MARTINREID> References: <000301c411aa$1d158a80$6401a8c0@COA3> <40638618.8080805@shaw.ca><1626260251.20040326103055@cactus.dk><000901c4159b$2a3a1420$9111758f@aine> <40685C8E.8010804@shaw.ca> <003101c415c6$9b04d6b0$1b02a8c0@MARTINREID> Message-ID: <1389061209.20040330112532@cactus.dk> Hi Martin Hard to say without knowing anything about the use of these databases and the complexity of the frontends. Without redesigning the frontends, you would be stuck with ODBC connection which may be fully acceptable but then - also in the light of potential licensing cost - you could as well use an alternative (open source and/or low cost) engine. I guess administering of users and rights to this myriad of databases could be the highest of all running cost. /gustav > Comments > We want to take a couple of hundred Access databases and move them to SQL > Server. WHat sort of problems do you see in terms of > Performance > Security > Re design > Backup > Staffing in terms of DBAs > anything else??? > Martin From mwp.reid at qub.ac.uk Tue Mar 30 03:35:29 2004 From: mwp.reid at qub.ac.uk (Martin Reid) Date: Tue, 30 Mar 2004 10:35:29 +0100 Subject: [AccessD] Slightly OT References: <20040329170358.1651494451.serbach@new.rr.com> <1528147715.20040330111019@cactus.dk> Message-ID: <000f01c4163a$57398c40$9111758f@aine> LOL That was good. Was just looking for some insight more to do with the management of multiple converted Access DBs migrated to SQL Server in terms of changes to backup and security and anything else that may prove interesting. Its a brain picking exercise for a project I am looking at. Not really looking at the data conversion more from the management side of things. Martin ----- Original Message ----- From: "Gustav Brock" To: "Access Developers discussion and problem solving" Sent: Tuesday, March 30, 2004 10:10 AM Subject: Re: [AccessD] Slightly OT > Hi Steven > > This must be the comment of the week! > > I'm sure Susan kept his copy, just to protect him ... > > /gustav > > > >>> We want to take a couple of hundred Access databases and move them to SQL Server. WHat sort of problems do you see in terms of...<< > > > Um, Martin? Don't I own a book with your name on it called "SQL: Access to SQL Server?" > > > Regards, > > > Steve Erbach > > Scientific Marketing > > Neenah, WI > > 920-969-0504 > > > "Don't light a match 'til ya know which end of the dog is barkin'." - Dave Barry > > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > From ssharkins at bellsouth.net Tue Mar 30 07:23:55 2004 From: ssharkins at bellsouth.net (Susan Harkins) Date: Tue, 30 Mar 2004 08:23:55 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Slightly OT In-Reply-To: <1528147715.20040330111019@cactus.dk> Message-ID: <20040330132354.PYOL1715.imf16aec.mail.bellsouth.net@SUSANONE> Now, in Martin's defense he didn't ask "how" -- he asked what he could expect converting 100's -- I didn't understand the question, but it really wasn't the same thing. Give the guy a break! ;) Susan H. Hi Steven This must be the comment of the week! I'm sure Susan kept his copy, just to protect him ... /gustav From gustav at cactus.dk Tue Mar 30 07:49:52 2004 From: gustav at cactus.dk (Gustav Brock) Date: Tue, 30 Mar 2004 15:49:52 +0200 Subject: [AccessD] Lookup Fields in Table Design In-Reply-To: <20040326211100.JUVT1763.imf25aec.mail.bellsouth.net@SUSANONE> References: <20040326211100.JUVT1763.imf25aec.mail.bellsouth.net@SUSANONE> Message-ID: <2424920353.20040330154952@cactus.dk> Nice try, Susan, but didn't exactly you redirect and fire this 100+ thread? I don't know how you manage to do it but it goes without saying that you did it again! /gustav > OK, I relinquish my position as main troublemaker. Obviously, I have > been outmaneuvered. :) > Susan H. --- >> From: Susan Harkins [mailto:ssharkins at bellsouth.net] >> Sent: Thursday, March 25, 2004 10:03 AM >> To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' >> Subject: RE: [AccessD] Framework Discussion - set up question >> Here we goooooooooooooooooooo! ;) From ssharkins at bellsouth.net Tue Mar 30 08:10:43 2004 From: ssharkins at bellsouth.net (Susan Harkins) Date: Tue, 30 Mar 2004 09:10:43 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Lookup Fields in Table Design In-Reply-To: <2424920353.20040330154952@cactus.dk> Message-ID: <20040330141042.GEGC1709.imf20aec.mail.bellsouth.net@SUSANONE> Yeah, but I was only kidding. ;) Susan H. Nice try, Susan, but didn't exactly you redirect and fire this 100+ thread? I don't know how you manage to do it but it goes without saying that you did it again! /gustav From Jdemarco at hudsonhealthplan.org Tue Mar 30 08:35:30 2004 From: Jdemarco at hudsonhealthplan.org (Jim DeMarco) Date: Tue, 30 Mar 2004 09:35:30 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Importing data using a Class..Who can help/review? Message-ID: <22F1CCD5171D17419CB37FEEE09D5F99030FE65E@TTNEXCHSRV1.hshhp.com> Sander, I took a quick look at this and I do see one thing I'd change. Rather than pass the connection and InterfaceID to every call of the cInterface.SaveLine method why not create an Init method in cInterface where you can pass in the connection and ID one time only before the loop? So your ImportInterface code might look like this when you're done: cnnConnection.BeginTrans cInterface.Init cnnConnection, intInterfaceID Do While Not objTS.AtEndOfStream 'strCurrentLine = objTS.ReadLine blnSaveLineOK = cInterface.SaveLine(intLineID, objTS.ReadLine) intLineID = intLineID + 1 Loop And your class would have a couple of module level variables to hold the connection and InterfaceID: Dim m_oCnn as ADODB.Connection Dim m_intInterfaceID as Integer Public Sub Init(Connection as ADODB.Connection, InterfaceID as Integer) Set m_oCnn = Connection m_intInterfaceID = InterfaceID End Sub Function SaveLine(intLineID As Integer, strLine As String) As Boolean Dim rstInterfaceData As ADODB.Recordset On Error GoTo SaveLine_Error Set rstInterfaceData = New ADODB.Recordset With rstInterfaceData .ActiveConnection = oCnn .CursorType = adOpenKeyset .LockType = adLockOptimistic .Source = "SELECT * FROM tblInterfaceData" .Open .AddNew !InterfaceID = intInterfaceID !InterfaceDate = Format(Now) !InterfaceLine = intLineID !InterfaceData = strLine .Update End With ' ...remaining code omitted for space HTH Jim DeMarco Director Application Development Hudson Health Plan -----Original Message----- From: S D [mailto:accessd667 at yahoo.com] Sent: Tuesday, March 30, 2004 2:38 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Importing data using a Class..Who can help/review? OK, I wanted to add a minidb but a message has a max size of 30KB... I've added the code I use in the following order: Form Module Class I've got the following questions: Q1: I'm calling the method SaveLine via a function ImportInterface. I don't think that this is very good programming. How can I improve this? Q2: I'm not using properties. Do I need them? For what and why? Q3: If anyone has more tips... Form Code Private Sub cmdReadFile_Click() Dim intInterfaceID As Integer intInterfaceID = cboImport Call ImportInterface(cboImport, "D:\Temp Projecten\Access\Interface.dat") End Sub Module '========================================================================================= ' Function Name : ImportInterface ' Parameters : intInterfaceID, strFilename ' Purpose : inserts every line of the interface into tblData ' Assumptions : --- ' Uses : --- ' Created : 2004-03-29 07:56, SaDe ' Modifications : '========================================================================================= Public Sub ImportInterface(intInterfaceID As Integer, strFilename As String) Dim objFSO As FileSystemObject Dim objTS As TextStream Dim strCurrentLine As String Dim strSQL As String Dim dtmCurrentDate As Date Dim intLineID As Integer Dim cInterface As cInterface Dim cnnConnection As ADODB.Connection Dim blnSaveLineOK As Boolean On Error GoTo ImportInterface_Error Set cnnConnection = CurrentProject.Connection Set objFSO = New FileSystemObject Set objTS = objFSO.OpenTextFile(strFilename) Set cInterface = New cInterface blnSaveLineOK = False intLineID = 1 cnnConnection.BeginTrans Do While Not objTS.AtEndOfStream 'strCurrentLine = objTS.ReadLine blnSaveLineOK = cInterface.SaveLine(cnnConnection, intInterfaceID, intLineID, objTS.ReadLine) intLineID = intLineID + 1 Loop 'Check if method executed correct If blnSaveLineOK Then cnnConnection.CommitTrans Call MsgBox("Interface imported!", vbInformation) Else cnnConnection.RollbackTrans Call MsgBox("An error occured!", vbCritical) End If Set cnnConnection = Nothing Exit Sub ImportInterface_Exit: ' Collect your garbage here cnnConnection.RollbackTrans Set cnnConnection = Nothing Exit Sub ImportInterface_Error: ' Collect your garbage here MsgBox "An Error Occured!!!" & Err.Number & ";" & Err.Description End Sub class cInterface Function SaveLine(cnnConnection As ADODB.Connection, intInterfaceID As Integer, intLineID As Integer, strLine As String) As Boolean Dim rstInterfaceData As ADODB.Recordset On Error GoTo SaveLine_Error Set rstInterfaceData = New ADODB.Recordset With rstInterfaceData .ActiveConnection = cnnConnection .CursorType = adOpenKeyset .LockType = adLockOptimistic .Source = "SELECT * FROM tblInterfaceData" .Open .AddNew !InterfaceID = intInterfaceID !InterfaceDate = Format(Now) !InterfaceLine = intLineID !InterfaceData = strLine .Update End With Set rstInterfaceData = Nothing 'Set cnnConnection = Nothing SaveLine = True SaveLine_Exit: ' Collect your garbage here Set rstInterfaceData = Nothing 'Set cnnConnection = Nothing Exit Function SaveLine_Error: ' Collect your garbage here SaveLine = False Call MsgBox(Err.Number & vbCrLf & _ Err.Description & vbCrLf & _ Err.Source & vbCrLf & _ "Newest.cInterface.SaveLine", vbCritical) Resume SaveLine_Exit End Function rsmethurst at uk.ey.com wrote: Sure Sander... I will. Cheers Ryan S D Sent by: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com 29/03/2004 14:46 Please respond to Access Developers discussion and problem solving To: accessd cc: Subject: [AccessD] Importing data using a Class..Who can help/review? Hi group, I'm building a little app that is able to import textfiles. I want to do this using a class. I've made a start and it works! Does anybody have the time/interest to shoot at it? It's very basic. I've got: a class called: cInterface a method called: SaveLine TIA Sander --------------------------------- Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Finance Tax Center - File online. File on time. -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com This e-mail and any attachment are confidential and contain proprietary information, some or all of which may be legally privileged. It is intended solely for the use of the individual or entity to which it is addressed. If you are not the intended recipient, please notify the author immediately by telephone or by replying to this e-mail, and then delete all copies of the e-mail on your system. If you are not the intended recipient, you must not use, disclose, distribute, copy, print or rely on this e-mail. Whilst we have taken reasonable precautions to ensure that this e-mail and any attachment has been checked for viruses, we cannot guarantee that they are virus free and we cannot accept liability for any damage sustained as a result of software viruses. We would advise that you carry out your own virus checks, especially before opening an attachment. The UK firm Ernst & Young LLP is a limited liability partnership registered in England and Wales with registered number OC300001 and is a member practice of Ernst & Young Global. A list of members? names is available for inspection at 1 More London Place, London, SE1 2AF, the firm?s principal place of business and its registered office. -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com --------------------------------- Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Finance Tax Center - File online. File on time. -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com *********************************************************************************** "This electronic message is intended to be for the use only of the named recipient, and may contain information from Hudson Health Plan (HHP) that is confidential or privileged. If you are not the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any disclosure, copying, distribution or use of the contents of this message is strictly prohibited. If you have received this message in error or are not the named recipient, please notify us immediately, either by contacting the sender at the electronic mail address noted above or calling HHP at (914) 631-1611. If you are not the intended recipient, please do not forward this email to anyone, and delete and destroy all copies of this message. Thank You". *********************************************************************************** From serbach at new.rr.com Tue Mar 30 08:46:51 2004 From: serbach at new.rr.com (Steven W. Erbach) Date: Tue, 30 Mar 2004 08:46:51 -0600 Subject: [AccessD] OT: A survey from somebody not as well-connected as JC Message-ID: <20040330084651.1318111505.serbach@new.rr.com> Kath, >> what sort of work have you been doing mostly? << Custom development using Access. Right at the moment, though, I have more Paradox work: I'm implementing a custom EDI application for a client that still uses Paradox for DOS. I got him to agree to have the EDI translation part done in Access by letting him know that it would cost a *lot* more for me to write it in the Paradox Application Language. So I got him to buy a "black box" EDI management tool that includes DLLs I can reference in VBA to build and translate EDI documents. I will also be upgrading a Paradox for Windows application for another client this week. I've asked if the app might be translated to something a bit more current (not that I hate Paradox; I don't. I used to be the biggest Paradox evangelist in these here parts: classes, user group, newsletter...It's just not currently being upgraded by Corel). My recent Access apps have included one for an ergonomic therapy outfit that tracks the physical job stresses for its industrial clients with my app. And I've done quite a bit with the domestic violence shelter app I acquired last year though that looks like a long-term loser. Hard to say at this point. >> Which tools do you use the most? << Access 2000, Paradox for DOS, Paradox v. 8 and 9, FMS Visual Sourcebook, FMS Codetools, Framework EDI, and VB6. Regards, Steve Erbach Scientific Marketing Neenah, WI 920-969-0504 "Don't light a match 'til ya know which end of the dog is barkin'." - Dave Barry From mwp.reid at qub.ac.uk Tue Mar 30 08:45:01 2004 From: mwp.reid at qub.ac.uk (Martin Reid) Date: Tue, 30 Mar 2004 15:45:01 +0100 Subject: [AccessD] SQL Question - Gustav References: <22F1CCD5171D17419CB37FEEE09D5F99030FE65E@TTNEXCHSRV1.hshhp.com> Message-ID: <001801c41665$95024b40$9111758f@aine> Gustav Could you re post your response from thsi morning. I seem to be missing something. Martin From Mike.W.Gowey at doc.state.or.us Tue Mar 30 08:46:25 2004 From: Mike.W.Gowey at doc.state.or.us (Gowey Mike W) Date: Tue, 30 Mar 2004 07:46:25 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] E-Mailing a Report Message-ID: <05EBB8A3BEB95B4F8216BE4EF486077802AA3E72@srciml1.ds.doc.state.or.us> Hi Everyone, I'm sure this is probably a basic question but I can't seem to think of it today. Is there a way for me to allow a user to select the e-mail address that they want to send a report to using the global list from our Exchange server?? Thanks in advance for any help :-) Mike Gowey, MCSA, A+,ACE Team Leader - SRCI Information Systems & Services Division Technical Support Analyst From Jdemarco at hudsonhealthplan.org Tue Mar 30 08:53:01 2004 From: Jdemarco at hudsonhealthplan.org (Jim DeMarco) Date: Tue, 30 Mar 2004 09:53:01 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Importing data using a Class..Who can help/review? Message-ID: <22F1CCD5171D17419CB37FEEE09D5F99030FE65F@TTNEXCHSRV1.hshhp.com> Sorry there's an error in the code I posted. In the SaveLine method this: With rstInterfaceData .ActiveConnection = oCnn .CursorType = adOpenKeyset .LockType = adLockOptimistic .Source = "SELECT * FROM tblInterfaceData" .Open .AddNew !InterfaceID = intInterfaceID ' ...code omitted should be: With rstInterfaceData .ActiveConnection = m_oCnn .CursorType = adOpenKeyset .LockType = adLockOptimistic .Source = "SELECT * FROM tblInterfaceData" .Open .AddNew !InterfaceID = m_intInterfaceID ' ...code omitted ...forgot to refer to the module level variables! Jim DeMarco -----Original Message----- From: Jim DeMarco Sent: Tuesday, March 30, 2004 9:36 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] Importing data using a Class..Who can help/review? Sander, I took a quick look at this and I do see one thing I'd change. Rather than pass the connection and InterfaceID to every call of the cInterface.SaveLine method why not create an Init method in cInterface where you can pass in the connection and ID one time only before the loop? So your ImportInterface code might look like this when you're done: cnnConnection.BeginTrans cInterface.Init cnnConnection, intInterfaceID Do While Not objTS.AtEndOfStream 'strCurrentLine = objTS.ReadLine blnSaveLineOK = cInterface.SaveLine(intLineID, objTS.ReadLine) intLineID = intLineID + 1 Loop And your class would have a couple of module level variables to hold the connection and InterfaceID: Dim m_oCnn as ADODB.Connection Dim m_intInterfaceID as Integer Public Sub Init(Connection as ADODB.Connection, InterfaceID as Integer) Set m_oCnn = Connection m_intInterfaceID = InterfaceID End Sub Function SaveLine(intLineID As Integer, strLine As String) As Boolean Dim rstInterfaceData As ADODB.Recordset On Error GoTo SaveLine_Error Set rstInterfaceData = New ADODB.Recordset With rstInterfaceData .ActiveConnection = oCnn .CursorType = adOpenKeyset .LockType = adLockOptimistic .Source = "SELECT * FROM tblInterfaceData" .Open .AddNew !InterfaceID = intInterfaceID !InterfaceDate = Format(Now) !InterfaceLine = intLineID !InterfaceData = strLine .Update End With ' ...remaining code omitted for space HTH Jim DeMarco Director Application Development Hudson Health Plan -----Original Message----- From: S D [mailto:accessd667 at yahoo.com] Sent: Tuesday, March 30, 2004 2:38 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Importing data using a Class..Who can help/review? OK, I wanted to add a minidb but a message has a max size of 30KB... I've added the code I use in the following order: Form Module Class I've got the following questions: Q1: I'm calling the method SaveLine via a function ImportInterface. I don't think that this is very good programming. How can I improve this? Q2: I'm not using properties. Do I need them? For what and why? Q3: If anyone has more tips... Form Code Private Sub cmdReadFile_Click() Dim intInterfaceID As Integer intInterfaceID = cboImport Call ImportInterface(cboImport, "D:\Temp Projecten\Access\Interface.dat") End Sub Module '========================================================================================= ' Function Name : ImportInterface ' Parameters : intInterfaceID, strFilename ' Purpose : inserts every line of the interface into tblData ' Assumptions : --- ' Uses : --- ' Created : 2004-03-29 07:56, SaDe ' Modifications : '========================================================================================= Public Sub ImportInterface(intInterfaceID As Integer, strFilename As String) Dim objFSO As FileSystemObject Dim objTS As TextStream Dim strCurrentLine As String Dim strSQL As String Dim dtmCurrentDate As Date Dim intLineID As Integer Dim cInterface As cInterface Dim cnnConnection As ADODB.Connection Dim blnSaveLineOK As Boolean On Error GoTo ImportInterface_Error Set cnnConnection = CurrentProject.Connection Set objFSO = New FileSystemObject Set objTS = objFSO.OpenTextFile(strFilename) Set cInterface = New cInterface blnSaveLineOK = False intLineID = 1 cnnConnection.BeginTrans Do While Not objTS.AtEndOfStream 'strCurrentLine = objTS.ReadLine blnSaveLineOK = cInterface.SaveLine(cnnConnection, intInterfaceID, intLineID, objTS.ReadLine) intLineID = intLineID + 1 Loop 'Check if method executed correct If blnSaveLineOK Then cnnConnection.CommitTrans Call MsgBox("Interface imported!", vbInformation) Else cnnConnection.RollbackTrans Call MsgBox("An error occured!", vbCritical) End If Set cnnConnection = Nothing Exit Sub ImportInterface_Exit: ' Collect your garbage here cnnConnection.RollbackTrans Set cnnConnection = Nothing Exit Sub ImportInterface_Error: ' Collect your garbage here MsgBox "An Error Occured!!!" & Err.Number & ";" & Err.Description End Sub class cInterface Function SaveLine(cnnConnection As ADODB.Connection, intInterfaceID As Integer, intLineID As Integer, strLine As String) As Boolean Dim rstInterfaceData As ADODB.Recordset On Error GoTo SaveLine_Error Set rstInterfaceData = New ADODB.Recordset With rstInterfaceData .ActiveConnection = cnnConnection .CursorType = adOpenKeyset .LockType = adLockOptimistic .Source = "SELECT * FROM tblInterfaceData" .Open .AddNew !InterfaceID = intInterfaceID !InterfaceDate = Format(Now) !InterfaceLine = intLineID !InterfaceData = strLine .Update End With Set rstInterfaceData = Nothing 'Set cnnConnection = Nothing SaveLine = True SaveLine_Exit: ' Collect your garbage here Set rstInterfaceData = Nothing 'Set cnnConnection = Nothing Exit Function SaveLine_Error: ' Collect your garbage here SaveLine = False Call MsgBox(Err.Number & vbCrLf & _ Err.Description & vbCrLf & _ Err.Source & vbCrLf & _ "Newest.cInterface.SaveLine", vbCritical) Resume SaveLine_Exit End Function rsmethurst at uk.ey.com wrote: Sure Sander... I will. Cheers Ryan S D Sent by: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com 29/03/2004 14:46 Please respond to Access Developers discussion and problem solving To: accessd cc: Subject: [AccessD] Importing data using a Class..Who can help/review? Hi group, I'm building a little app that is able to import textfiles. I want to do this using a class. I've made a start and it works! Does anybody have the time/interest to shoot at it? It's very basic. I've got: a class called: cInterface a method called: SaveLine TIA Sander --------------------------------- Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Finance Tax Center - File online. File on time. -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com This e-mail and any attachment are confidential and contain proprietary information, some or all of which may be legally privileged. It is intended solely for the use of the individual or entity to which it is addressed. If you are not the intended recipient, please notify the author immediately by telephone or by replying to this e-mail, and then delete all copies of the e-mail on your system. If you are not the intended recipient, you must not use, disclose, distribute, copy, print or rely on this e-mail. Whilst we have taken reasonable precautions to ensure that this e-mail and any attachment has been checked for viruses, we cannot guarantee that they are virus free and we cannot accept liability for any damage sustained as a result of software viruses. We would advise that you carry out your own virus checks, especially before opening an attachment. The UK firm Ernst & Young LLP is a limited liability partnership registered in England and Wales with registered number OC300001 and is a member practice of Ernst & Young Global. A list of members? names is available for inspection at 1 More London Place, London, SE1 2AF, the firm?s principal place of business and its registered office. -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com --------------------------------- Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Finance Tax Center - File online. File on time. -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com *********************************************************************************** "This electronic message is intended to be for the use only of the named recipient, and may contain information from Hudson Health Plan (HHP) that is confidential or privileged. If you are not the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any disclosure, copying, distribution or use of the contents of this message is strictly prohibited. If you have received this message in error or are not the named recipient, please notify us immediately, either by contacting the sender at the electronic mail address noted above or calling HHP at (914) 631-1611. If you are not the intended recipient, please do not forward this email to anyone, and delete and destroy all copies of this message. Thank You". *********************************************************************************** -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com *********************************************************************************** "This electronic message is intended to be for the use only of the named recipient, and may contain information from Hudson Health Plan (HHP) that is confidential or privileged. If you are not the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any disclosure, copying, distribution or use of the contents of this message is strictly prohibited. If you have received this message in error or are not the named recipient, please notify us immediately, either by contacting the sender at the electronic mail address noted above or calling HHP at (914) 631-1611. If you are not the intended recipient, please do not forward this email to anyone, and delete and destroy all copies of this message. Thank You". *********************************************************************************** From andy at minstersystems.co.uk Tue Mar 30 10:04:41 2004 From: andy at minstersystems.co.uk (Andy Lacey) Date: Tue, 30 Mar 2004 16:04:41 +0000 Subject: [AccessD] E-Mailing a Report Message-ID: <20040330150438.192D425E109@smtp.nildram.co.uk> Hi Mike Not sure how you're doing the emailing but if you're simply using Docmd.SendObject then the nth parameter (see Help) is 'editmessage'. Set that to True and your email app gets opened so the user can pick addressees him/herself. -- Andy Lacey http://www.minstersystems.co.uk --------- Original Message -------- From: Access Developers discussion and problem solving To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: [AccessD] E-Mailing a Report Date: 30/03/04 14:53 > > > Hi Everyone, > > I'm sure this is probably a basic question but I can't seem to think of > it today. Is there a way for me to allow a user to select the e-mail > address that they want to send a report to using the global list from > our Exchange server?? > > Thanks in advance for any help :-) > > Mike Gowey, MCSA, A+,ACE > Team Leader - SRCI > Information Systems & Services Division > Technical Support Analyst > > > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > > ________________________________________________ Message sent using UebiMiau 2.7.2 From mwp.reid at qub.ac.uk Tue Mar 30 09:21:17 2004 From: mwp.reid at qub.ac.uk (Martin Reid) Date: Tue, 30 Mar 2004 16:21:17 +0100 Subject: [AccessD] SQL Repost References: <000301c411aa$1d158a80$6401a8c0@COA3><40638618.8080805@shaw.ca><1626260251.20040326103055@cactus.dk><000901c4159b$2a3a1420$9111758f@aine><40685C8E.8010804@shaw.ca> <003101c415c6$9b04d6b0$1b02a8c0@MARTINREID> <1389061209.20040330112532@cactus.dk> Message-ID: <001b01c4166a$a5ec0770$9111758f@aine> Sorry I deleted the origional reply Heres the outline TM= A+B+C1+ (Higher of D1 or D2) TMD= A+B+C1+ (higher of (C1+D1) or C2+D2) As before it must be SQL and account for nulls. The IIF works but I am missing something in the syntax re the null values. Apologies to gustave as I deleted his email. From gustav at cactus.dk Tue Mar 30 09:41:13 2004 From: gustav at cactus.dk (Gustav Brock) Date: Tue, 30 Mar 2004 17:41:13 +0200 Subject: [AccessD] Lookup Fields in Table Design In-Reply-To: <20040330141042.GEGC1709.imf20aec.mail.bellsouth.net@SUSANONE> References: <20040330141042.GEGC1709.imf20aec.mail.bellsouth.net@SUSANONE> Message-ID: <14931601790.20040330174113@cactus.dk> Hi Susan It turns better and better! That comment reminds me of some experiences in the school yard where someone (mostly nice little girls) tried to wash their hands after something "just happened" ... /gustav > Yeah, but I was only kidding. ;) > Susan H. > Nice try, Susan, but didn't exactly you redirect and fire this 100+ thread? > I don't know how you manage to do it but it goes without saying that you did > it again! > /gustav From gustav at cactus.dk Tue Mar 30 09:45:58 2004 From: gustav at cactus.dk (Gustav Brock) Date: Tue, 30 Mar 2004 17:45:58 +0200 Subject: [AccessD] SQL Question - Gustav In-Reply-To: <001801c41665$95024b40$9111758f@aine> References: <22F1CCD5171D17419CB37FEEE09D5F99030FE65E@TTNEXCHSRV1.hshhp.com> <001801c41665$95024b40$9111758f@aine> Message-ID: <831886360.20040330174558@cactus.dk> Hi Martin OK. Sent off-line. /gustav > Gustav > Could you re post your response from thsi morning. I seem to be missing > something. > Martin From gustav at cactus.dk Tue Mar 30 09:49:50 2004 From: gustav at cactus.dk (Gustav Brock) Date: Tue, 30 Mar 2004 17:49:50 +0200 Subject: [AccessD] SQL Repost In-Reply-To: <001b01c4166a$a5ec0770$9111758f@aine> References: <000301c411aa$1d158a80$6401a8c0@COA3><40638618.8080805@shaw.ca><1626260251.20040326103055@cactus.dk><000901c4159b$2a3a1420$9111758f@aine><40685C8E.8010804@shaw.ca> <003101c415c6$9b04d6b0$1b02a8c0@MARTINREID> <1389061209.20040330112532@cactus.dk> <001b01c4166a$a5ec0770$9111758f@aine> Message-ID: <4232119245.20040330174950@cactus.dk> Hi Martin Can't you just wrap those expressions in Nz()? /gustav > Sorry I deleted the origional reply > Heres the outline > TM= A+B+C1+ (Higher of D1 or D2) > TMD= A+B+C1+ (higher of (C1+D1) or C2+D2) > As before it must be SQL and account for nulls. The IIF works but I am > missing something in the syntax re the null values. > Apologies to gustave as I deleted his email. From DWUTKA at marlow.com Tue Mar 30 09:53:52 2004 From: DWUTKA at marlow.com (DWUTKA at marlow.com) Date: Tue, 30 Mar 2004 09:53:52 -0600 Subject: [AccessD] Lookup Fields in Table Design Message-ID: <2F8793082E00D4119A1700B0D0216BF802227A18@main2.marlow.com> Hey John, another sayer! (or are we shirts or skins?). Arthur, that is exactly why I use them too. To me, the lookup field is just as important (if needed) as commenting the fields. It's a more precise definition then you can cram into the description field, at that. Drew -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Arthur Fuller Sent: Monday, March 29, 2004 9:42 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: [AccessD] Lookup Fields in Table Design I am one of those asinine developers that defines as much as possible at the table level, including lookups. In an MDB, for example, I might define the CustomerID column as a combo-box whose source is a query called Customers_SelectByCompanyName, with a hidden column 0 and a visible column 1. Even if it does cost me a couple of milliseconds at run-time (which is arguable), I'll still do it, because of the tremendous development-time gains. Given the absence of "domains" in Access (a domain in this sense is a meta-field, i.e. a thoroughly defined field which is not tied to a table, which can then be copied to any given table in the app), what I typically do is create a pseudo-table containing all these thoroughly-defined field definitions. Then as I create the actual tables, I copy the fields of interest from the pseudo-table to the given actual table, thus "inheriting" the complete fieldspec, including format, mask, prompt, combo-box etc. Why do I invest so much time at the table level? Very simple. Once that is done, even if I do nothing more than create an autoForm or query or report, I inherit all these field specifications. I do it this way in MDBs because most of the data-architecture tools don't provide full support for file-level databases. Given a job in SQL Server, though, I invest this effort in the definition of domains etc., and then manufacture all the tables from the domains, postponing this step until I am satisfied with the domain specs. The great thing about such (admittedly pricey) tools is that you can revise the domain definitions and they automatically propagate to all instances of the domains in all the tables. That's what I love about such tools! Arthur -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of DWUTKA at marlow.com Sent: Monday, March 29, 2004 7:49 AM To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: RE: [AccessD] Lookup Fields in Table Design Doesn't intimidate me. I have the utmost respect for the moderators though, because they have to be impartial. Kind of like being a cop. Sometimes you have to be forceful, when you can absolutely sympathize with the people you are trying to help. I just hope that people starting out in Access read the thread, and realize that not everything that is 'recommended' about Access is based on fact. That their goal in their development career should be to learn everything that they can with the development tool of their choice, and not just take things at face value. Drew -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Susan Harkins Sent: Sunday, March 28, 2004 12:58 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: [AccessD] Lookup Fields in Table Design Why do men get so grouchy in their old age? Andy and William -- if you don't want to read the thread, can you not ignore it? Are you trying to tell us that because you find no value in the discussion, that the discussion is therefore valueless? I'm sure that's not really what you mean to say. Ignore the discussion if you're not getting anything out of it. We all ignore threads all the time. Let them hash it out. I'm pretty much done with the thread myself, but this is the one thing that some of you do that really annoys me. Leave the thread be. If it's gets off topic, then kill it. FWIW, you probably have pretty much killed it with your caustic remarks -- I wish you guys wouldn't do that. It intimidates people. Susan H. ...ah ...welcome to Florida Andy ...we may not be able to count votes but, just like the butterfly ballot, we sure as hell know when something has been beat to death a hundred times over! :)))))) -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From cfoust at infostatsystems.com Tue Mar 30 10:49:22 2004 From: cfoust at infostatsystems.com (Charlotte Foust) Date: Tue, 30 Mar 2004 08:49:22 -0800 Subject: [AccessD] Lookup Fields in Table Design Message-ID: ROTFL Could we get pennants made up for each side? Charlotte Foust -----Original Message----- From: MartyConnelly [mailto:martyconnelly at shaw.ca] Sent: Monday, March 29, 2004 5:45 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Lookup Fields in Table Design I was hoping for "Bounders" and "Cads" John Bartow wrote: >I guess maybe "nay-sayers" had a negative connotation to it. > >Next time I think I'll call the opposing views "Shirts" and "Skins". >Maybe we'll get more people participating :o) > >-----Original Message----- >From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com >[mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of >DWUTKA at marlow.com >Sent: Monday, March 29, 2004 3:51 PM >To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com >Subject: RE: [AccessD] Lookup Fields in Table Design > > >Thank you. I've had my opinion changed on this list before too. And I >always learn something new in here. But I was wondering if I was >starting to lose it, because I hadn't seen any solid 'evidence' from >the nay-sayers. That's all I was asking for. Reproducable results. It >was very easy for me to reproduce the Date Table 'examples', and see >that they are definitely more efficient then using calculations in a >query, for sorting and searching. > >Just haven't seen anything like that with the Lookup topic. Which >isn't surprising though. It is something that has been mystified in >the 'relational database' world. It's in books, on the web, and thus >is defended simply by pointing to other references. Those are the >hardest walls to topple. It's a paradigm. > >Drew > >-----Original Message----- >From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com >[mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of John Bartow >Sent: Monday, March 29, 2004 3:16 PM >To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving >Subject: RE: [AccessD] Lookup Fields in Table Design > > >I started the thread decidely not using lookup properties for the past >5 years because of the overwhelming attitude among developers that it >shouldn't be used. (IIRC that's when I first read Dev's "10 >Commandments".) > >I had no "side" in this debate other than pointing out weaknesses I saw >in specific arguments (and being "cutesy" at times) Rarely is someone >go to fully switch "sides" in a debate. (So I don't expect everyone to >agree with >me.) I believe that, based on this thread, the people who argued that it is >OK to use lookup properties have won the day. > >Unless someone comes up with a solid reason why it should never be used >I will not hesitate to use it again when the situation warrants. > >I challenge anyone to use facts to convince me otherwise. In fact I >would very much appreciate it. And I'll buy you a few if you can do so! > >John "always open to the facts" Bartow > > >-----Original Message----- >From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com >[mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Charlotte >Foust >Sent: Monday, March 29, 2004 2:44 PM >To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving >Subject: RE: [AccessD] Lookup Fields in Table Design > > >Forget it. You insist that your opinion carried the day. Go right >ahead and believe it, but don't expect everyone else to agree. > >Charlotte Foust > > >-- >_______________________________________________ >AccessD mailing list >AccessD at databaseadvisors.com >http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd >Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com >-- >_______________________________________________ >AccessD mailing list >AccessD at databaseadvisors.com >http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd >Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > > -- Marty Connelly Victoria, B.C. Canada -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From mwp.reid at qub.ac.uk Tue Mar 30 11:16:12 2004 From: mwp.reid at qub.ac.uk (Martin Reid) Date: Tue, 30 Mar 2004 18:16:12 +0100 Subject: [AccessD] SQL Repost References: <000301c411aa$1d158a80$6401a8c0@COA3><40638618.8080805@shaw.ca><1626260251.20040326103055@cactus.dk><000901c4159b$2a3a1420$9111758f@aine><40685C8E.8010804@shaw.ca><003101c415c6$9b04d6b0$1b02a8c0@MARTINREID><1389061209.20040330112532@cactus.dk><001b01c4166a$a5ec0770$9111758f@aine> <4232119245.20040330174950@cactus.dk> Message-ID: <002d01c4167a$ba5636d0$1b02a8c0@MARTINREID> All done all working now. Best Martin ----- Original Message ----- From: "Gustav Brock" To: "Access Developers discussion and problem solving" Sent: Tuesday, March 30, 2004 4:49 PM Subject: Re: [AccessD] SQL Repost > Hi Martin > > Can't you just wrap those expressions in Nz()? > > /gustav > > > > Sorry I deleted the origional reply > > > Heres the outline > > > TM= A+B+C1+ (Higher of D1 or D2) > > > TMD= A+B+C1+ (higher of (C1+D1) or C2+D2) > > > As before it must be SQL and account for nulls. The IIF works but I am > > missing something in the syntax re the null values. > > > Apologies to gustave as I deleted his email. > > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > From sgeller at cce.umn.edu Tue Mar 30 11:27:38 2004 From: sgeller at cce.umn.edu (Susan Geller) Date: Tue, 30 Mar 2004 11:27:38 -0600 Subject: [AccessD] Default Printer for Access Report Message-ID: I have a reporting tool built in Access (2002) that is essentially a wizard where users pick a report, set criteria and then see their output. There are nearly 100 reports in the app. When a user choses to print a report, the default printer that comes up in the print dialog box is the default printer set on their machine, EXCEPT for one of the reports. On that one report only, the default printer that comes up in the dialogue box is a different printer. All users get this different printer. I did not write any code or make any settings to indicate printer choice. What could be happening? How can I get this one report to print to the user's default printer? Note: The only way that users can print a report is with a toolbar PRINT button that I brings up the dialogue box. There is no file menu from the reports and there is no button with a printer icon that sends reports straight to the printer. --Susan Susan B. Geller Office of Information Systems College of Continuing Education University of Minnesota 306 Wesbrook Hall 77 Pleasant Street SE Minneapolis, MN 55455 Phone: 612-626-4785 Fax: 612-625-2568 From martyconnelly at shaw.ca Tue Mar 30 11:31:43 2004 From: martyconnelly at shaw.ca (MartyConnelly) Date: Tue, 30 Mar 2004 09:31:43 -0800 Subject: [AccessD] E-Mailing a Report References: <05EBB8A3BEB95B4F8216BE4EF486077802AA3E72@srciml1.ds.doc.state.or.us> Message-ID: <4069AEFF.9020403@shaw.ca> This might not be the only way, have a look through http://www.slipstick.com site too It uses LDAP http://www.msexchange.org/tutorials/Creating_a_list_of_Users_and_their_email_addresses_in_Exchange_2000.html http://www.msexchange.org/tutorials/Creating_a_list_of_Users_and_their_email_addresses_in_Exchange_2000_2.html Gowey Mike W wrote: > >Hi Everyone, > >I'm sure this is probably a basic question but I can't seem to think of >it today. Is there a way for me to allow a user to select the e-mail >address that they want to send a report to using the global list from >our Exchange server?? > >Thanks in advance for any help :-) > >Mike Gowey, MCSA, A+,ACE >Team Leader - SRCI >Information Systems & Services Division >Technical Support Analyst > > > > -- Marty Connelly Victoria, B.C. Canada From mikedorism at adelphia.net Tue Mar 30 12:02:47 2004 From: mikedorism at adelphia.net (Mike & Doris Manning) Date: Tue, 30 Mar 2004 13:02:47 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Default Printer for Access Report In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <000001c41681$35704940$a1194244@hargrove.internal> Open that report in design view and then click on "File" and choose "Page Setup". It is possible it get set accidentally when the report was designed. Doris Manning Database Administrator Hargrove Inc. www.hargroveinc.com -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Susan Geller Sent: Tuesday, March 30, 2004 12:28 PM To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: [AccessD] Default Printer for Access Report I have a reporting tool built in Access (2002) that is essentially a wizard where users pick a report, set criteria and then see their output. There are nearly 100 reports in the app. When a user choses to print a report, the default printer that comes up in the print dialog box is the default printer set on their machine, EXCEPT for one of the reports. On that one report only, the default printer that comes up in the dialogue box is a different printer. All users get this different printer. I did not write any code or make any settings to indicate printer choice. What could be happening? How can I get this one report to print to the user's default printer? Note: The only way that users can print a report is with a toolbar PRINT button that I brings up the dialogue box. There is no file menu from the reports and there is no button with a printer icon that sends reports straight to the printer. --Susan Susan B. Geller Office of Information Systems College of Continuing Education University of Minnesota 306 Wesbrook Hall 77 Pleasant Street SE Minneapolis, MN 55455 Phone: 612-626-4785 Fax: 612-625-2568 -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From john at winhaven.net Tue Mar 30 12:09:42 2004 From: john at winhaven.net (John Bartow) Date: Tue, 30 Mar 2004 12:09:42 -0600 Subject: [AccessD] Lookup Fields in Table Design In-Reply-To: <2424920353.20040330154952@cactus.dk> Message-ID: Well Susan, At least the vast majority of the responses were on topic. I've already gotten a hundred plus emails from a question I asked where 90% of the responses had nothing to do with the original subject line! -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Gustav Brock Sent: Tuesday, March 30, 2004 7:50 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Lookup Fields in Table Design Nice try, Susan, but didn't exactly you redirect and fire this 100+ thread? I don't know how you manage to do it but it goes without saying that you did it again! /gustav > OK, I relinquish my position as main troublemaker. Obviously, I have > been outmaneuvered. :) > Susan H. --- >> From: Susan Harkins [mailto:ssharkins at bellsouth.net] >> Sent: Thursday, March 25, 2004 10:03 AM >> To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' >> Subject: RE: [AccessD] Framework Discussion - set up question >> Here we goooooooooooooooooooo! ;) -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From john at winhaven.net Tue Mar 30 12:09:45 2004 From: john at winhaven.net (John Bartow) Date: Tue, 30 Mar 2004 12:09:45 -0600 Subject: [AccessD] Lookup Fields in Table Design In-Reply-To: <2F8793082E00D4119A1700B0D0216BF802227A18@main2.marlow.com> Message-ID: I'm still digesting Ken last post and Arthur's post. We'll be shirts and skins next time :o) John -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of DWUTKA at marlow.com Sent: Tuesday, March 30, 2004 9:54 AM To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: RE: [AccessD] Lookup Fields in Table Design Hey John, another sayer! (or are we shirts or skins?). Arthur, that is exactly why I use them too. To me, the lookup field is just as important (if needed) as commenting the fields. It's a more precise definition then you can cram into the description field, at that. Drew -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Arthur Fuller Sent: Monday, March 29, 2004 9:42 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: [AccessD] Lookup Fields in Table Design I am one of those asinine developers that defines as much as possible at the table level, including lookups. In an MDB, for example, I might define the CustomerID column as a combo-box whose source is a query called Customers_SelectByCompanyName, with a hidden column 0 and a visible column 1. Even if it does cost me a couple of milliseconds at run-time (which is arguable), I'll still do it, because of the tremendous development-time gains. Given the absence of "domains" in Access (a domain in this sense is a meta-field, i.e. a thoroughly defined field which is not tied to a table, which can then be copied to any given table in the app), what I typically do is create a pseudo-table containing all these thoroughly-defined field definitions. Then as I create the actual tables, I copy the fields of interest from the pseudo-table to the given actual table, thus "inheriting" the complete fieldspec, including format, mask, prompt, combo-box etc. Why do I invest so much time at the table level? Very simple. Once that is done, even if I do nothing more than create an autoForm or query or report, I inherit all these field specifications. I do it this way in MDBs because most of the data-architecture tools don't provide full support for file-level databases. Given a job in SQL Server, though, I invest this effort in the definition of domains etc., and then manufacture all the tables from the domains, postponing this step until I am satisfied with the domain specs. The great thing about such (admittedly pricey) tools is that you can revise the domain definitions and they automatically propagate to all instances of the domains in all the tables. That's what I love about such tools! Arthur -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of DWUTKA at marlow.com Sent: Monday, March 29, 2004 7:49 AM To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: RE: [AccessD] Lookup Fields in Table Design Doesn't intimidate me. I have the utmost respect for the moderators though, because they have to be impartial. Kind of like being a cop. Sometimes you have to be forceful, when you can absolutely sympathize with the people you are trying to help. I just hope that people starting out in Access read the thread, and realize that not everything that is 'recommended' about Access is based on fact. That their goal in their development career should be to learn everything that they can with the development tool of their choice, and not just take things at face value. Drew -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Susan Harkins Sent: Sunday, March 28, 2004 12:58 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: [AccessD] Lookup Fields in Table Design Why do men get so grouchy in their old age? Andy and William -- if you don't want to read the thread, can you not ignore it? Are you trying to tell us that because you find no value in the discussion, that the discussion is therefore valueless? I'm sure that's not really what you mean to say. Ignore the discussion if you're not getting anything out of it. We all ignore threads all the time. Let them hash it out. I'm pretty much done with the thread myself, but this is the one thing that some of you do that really annoys me. Leave the thread be. If it's gets off topic, then kill it. FWIW, you probably have pretty much killed it with your caustic remarks -- I wish you guys wouldn't do that. It intimidates people. Susan H. ...ah ...welcome to Florida Andy ...we may not be able to count votes but, just like the butterfly ballot, we sure as hell know when something has been beat to death a hundred times over! :)))))) -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From john at winhaven.net Tue Mar 30 12:09:50 2004 From: john at winhaven.net (John Bartow) Date: Tue, 30 Mar 2004 12:09:50 -0600 Subject: [AccessD] Lookup Fields in Table Design In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Ok, I was just going to avoid sounding stupid here but what the heck... What are Cads? John -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Charlotte Foust Sent: Tuesday, March 30, 2004 10:49 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] Lookup Fields in Table Design ROTFL Could we get pennants made up for each side? Charlotte Foust -----Original Message----- From: MartyConnelly [mailto:martyconnelly at shaw.ca] Sent: Monday, March 29, 2004 5:45 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Lookup Fields in Table Design I was hoping for "Bounders" and "Cads" John Bartow wrote: >I guess maybe "nay-sayers" had a negative connotation to it. > >Next time I think I'll call the opposing views "Shirts" and "Skins". >Maybe we'll get more people participating :o) > >-----Original Message----- >From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com >[mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of >DWUTKA at marlow.com >Sent: Monday, March 29, 2004 3:51 PM >To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com >Subject: RE: [AccessD] Lookup Fields in Table Design > > >Thank you. I've had my opinion changed on this list before too. And I >always learn something new in here. But I was wondering if I was >starting to lose it, because I hadn't seen any solid 'evidence' from >the nay-sayers. That's all I was asking for. Reproducable results. It >was very easy for me to reproduce the Date Table 'examples', and see >that they are definitely more efficient then using calculations in a >query, for sorting and searching. > >Just haven't seen anything like that with the Lookup topic. Which >isn't surprising though. It is something that has been mystified in >the 'relational database' world. It's in books, on the web, and thus >is defended simply by pointing to other references. Those are the >hardest walls to topple. It's a paradigm. > >Drew > >-----Original Message----- >From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com >[mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of John Bartow >Sent: Monday, March 29, 2004 3:16 PM >To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving >Subject: RE: [AccessD] Lookup Fields in Table Design > > >I started the thread decidely not using lookup properties for the past >5 years because of the overwhelming attitude among developers that it >shouldn't be used. (IIRC that's when I first read Dev's "10 >Commandments".) > >I had no "side" in this debate other than pointing out weaknesses I saw >in specific arguments (and being "cutesy" at times) Rarely is someone >go to fully switch "sides" in a debate. (So I don't expect everyone to >agree with >me.) I believe that, based on this thread, the people who argued that it is >OK to use lookup properties have won the day. > >Unless someone comes up with a solid reason why it should never be used >I will not hesitate to use it again when the situation warrants. > >I challenge anyone to use facts to convince me otherwise. In fact I >would very much appreciate it. And I'll buy you a few if you can do so! > >John "always open to the facts" Bartow > > >-----Original Message----- >From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com >[mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Charlotte >Foust >Sent: Monday, March 29, 2004 2:44 PM >To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving >Subject: RE: [AccessD] Lookup Fields in Table Design > > >Forget it. You insist that your opinion carried the day. Go right >ahead and believe it, but don't expect everyone else to agree. > >Charlotte Foust > > >-- >_______________________________________________ >AccessD mailing list >AccessD at databaseadvisors.com >http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd >Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com >-- >_______________________________________________ >AccessD mailing list >AccessD at databaseadvisors.com >http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd >Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > > -- Marty Connelly Victoria, B.C. Canada -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From ssharkins at bellsouth.net Tue Mar 30 12:36:35 2004 From: ssharkins at bellsouth.net (Susan Harkins) Date: Tue, 30 Mar 2004 13:36:35 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Lookup Fields in Table Design In-Reply-To: <14931601790.20040330174113@cactus.dk> Message-ID: <20040330183636.WVRQ1715.imf16aec.mail.bellsouth.net@SUSANONE> Whatever did you do to those poor little girls?????????? ;) Susan H. Hi Susan It turns better and better! That comment reminds me of some experiences in the school yard where someone (mostly nice little girls) tried to wash their hands after something "just happened" ... From Lambert.Heenan at AIG.com Tue Mar 30 12:36:41 2004 From: Lambert.Heenan at AIG.com (Heenan, Lambert) Date: Tue, 30 Mar 2004 13:36:41 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Lookup Fields in Table Design Message-ID: <8B98F8EA48F8BA47A2F24E0D0AF40CF407AD8053@xlivmbx12.aig.com> A cad is someone you would not wish your daughter to marry, particularly if you are from the pink gin swilling, monocle wearing 1920's era upper class society, much written about by the like of P.G. Woodhouse and Dorothy L Sayer. cad (k?d) noun An unprincipled, ungentlemanly man. Lambert > -----Original Message----- > From: John Bartow [SMTP:john at winhaven.net] > Sent: Tuesday, March 30, 2004 1:10 PM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: RE: [AccessD] Lookup Fields in Table Design > > Ok, I was just going to avoid sounding stupid here but what the heck... > > What are Cads? > > John > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Charlotte > Foust > Sent: Tuesday, March 30, 2004 10:49 AM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: RE: [AccessD] Lookup Fields in Table Design > > > ROTFL > > Could we get pennants made up for each side? > > Charlotte Foust > > -----Original Message----- > From: MartyConnelly [mailto:martyconnelly at shaw.ca] > Sent: Monday, March 29, 2004 5:45 PM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: Re: [AccessD] Lookup Fields in Table Design > > > I was hoping for "Bounders" and "Cads" > > John Bartow wrote: > > >I guess maybe "nay-sayers" had a negative connotation to it. > > > >Next time I think I'll call the opposing views "Shirts" and "Skins". > >Maybe we'll get more people participating :o) > > > >-----Original Message----- > >From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > >[mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of > >DWUTKA at marlow.com > >Sent: Monday, March 29, 2004 3:51 PM > >To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com > >Subject: RE: [AccessD] Lookup Fields in Table Design > > > > > >Thank you. I've had my opinion changed on this list before too. And I > > >always learn something new in here. But I was wondering if I was > >starting to lose it, because I hadn't seen any solid 'evidence' from > >the nay-sayers. That's all I was asking for. Reproducable results. It > > >was very easy for me to reproduce the Date Table 'examples', and see > >that they are definitely more efficient then using calculations in a > >query, for sorting and searching. > > > >Just haven't seen anything like that with the Lookup topic. Which > >isn't surprising though. It is something that has been mystified in > >the 'relational database' world. It's in books, on the web, and thus > >is defended simply by pointing to other references. Those are the > >hardest walls to topple. It's a paradigm. > > > >Drew > > > >-----Original Message----- > >From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > >[mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of John Bartow > >Sent: Monday, March 29, 2004 3:16 PM > >To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > >Subject: RE: [AccessD] Lookup Fields in Table Design > > > > > >I started the thread decidely not using lookup properties for the past > >5 years because of the overwhelming attitude among developers that it > >shouldn't be used. (IIRC that's when I first read Dev's "10 > >Commandments".) > > > >I had no "side" in this debate other than pointing out weaknesses I saw > > >in specific arguments (and being "cutesy" at times) Rarely is someone > >go to fully switch "sides" in a debate. (So I don't expect everyone to > >agree with > >me.) I believe that, based on this thread, the people who argued that > it is > >OK to use lookup properties have won the day. > > > >Unless someone comes up with a solid reason why it should never be used > > >I will not hesitate to use it again when the situation warrants. > > > >I challenge anyone to use facts to convince me otherwise. In fact I > >would very much appreciate it. And I'll buy you a few if you can do so! > > > >John "always open to the facts" Bartow > > > > > >-----Original Message----- > >From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > >[mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Charlotte > >Foust > >Sent: Monday, March 29, 2004 2:44 PM > >To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > >Subject: RE: [AccessD] Lookup Fields in Table Design > > > > > >Forget it. You insist that your opinion carried the day. Go right > >ahead and believe it, but don't expect everyone else to agree. > > > >Charlotte Foust > > > > > >-- > >_______________________________________________ > >AccessD mailing list > >AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > >http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > >Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > >-- > >_______________________________________________ > >AccessD mailing list > >AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > >http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > >Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > > > > > > > > > -- > Marty Connelly > Victoria, B.C. > Canada > > > > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From cfoust at infostatsystems.com Tue Mar 30 12:58:23 2004 From: cfoust at infostatsystems.com (Charlotte Foust) Date: Tue, 30 Mar 2004 10:58:23 -0800 Subject: [AccessD] Lookup Fields in Table Design Message-ID: Very similar to bounders, which has nothing to do with forms. Charlotte Foust -----Original Message----- From: John Bartow [mailto:john at winhaven.net] Sent: Tuesday, March 30, 2004 10:10 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] Lookup Fields in Table Design Ok, I was just going to avoid sounding stupid here but what the heck... What are Cads? John -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Charlotte Foust Sent: Tuesday, March 30, 2004 10:49 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] Lookup Fields in Table Design ROTFL Could we get pennants made up for each side? Charlotte Foust -----Original Message----- From: MartyConnelly [mailto:martyconnelly at shaw.ca] Sent: Monday, March 29, 2004 5:45 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Lookup Fields in Table Design I was hoping for "Bounders" and "Cads" John Bartow wrote: >I guess maybe "nay-sayers" had a negative connotation to it. > >Next time I think I'll call the opposing views "Shirts" and "Skins". >Maybe we'll get more people participating :o) > >-----Original Message----- >From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com >[mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of >DWUTKA at marlow.com >Sent: Monday, March 29, 2004 3:51 PM >To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com >Subject: RE: [AccessD] Lookup Fields in Table Design > > >Thank you. I've had my opinion changed on this list before too. And I >always learn something new in here. But I was wondering if I was >starting to lose it, because I hadn't seen any solid 'evidence' from >the nay-sayers. That's all I was asking for. Reproducable results. It >was very easy for me to reproduce the Date Table 'examples', and see >that they are definitely more efficient then using calculations in a >query, for sorting and searching. > >Just haven't seen anything like that with the Lookup topic. Which >isn't surprising though. It is something that has been mystified in >the 'relational database' world. It's in books, on the web, and thus >is defended simply by pointing to other references. Those are the >hardest walls to topple. It's a paradigm. > >Drew > >-----Original Message----- >From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com >[mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of John Bartow >Sent: Monday, March 29, 2004 3:16 PM >To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving >Subject: RE: [AccessD] Lookup Fields in Table Design > > >I started the thread decidely not using lookup properties for the past >5 years because of the overwhelming attitude among developers that it >shouldn't be used. (IIRC that's when I first read Dev's "10 >Commandments".) > >I had no "side" in this debate other than pointing out weaknesses I saw >in specific arguments (and being "cutesy" at times) Rarely is someone >go to fully switch "sides" in a debate. (So I don't expect everyone to >agree with >me.) I believe that, based on this thread, the people who argued that it is >OK to use lookup properties have won the day. > >Unless someone comes up with a solid reason why it should never be used >I will not hesitate to use it again when the situation warrants. > >I challenge anyone to use facts to convince me otherwise. In fact I >would very much appreciate it. And I'll buy you a few if you can do so! > >John "always open to the facts" Bartow > > >-----Original Message----- >From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com >[mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Charlotte >Foust >Sent: Monday, March 29, 2004 2:44 PM >To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving >Subject: RE: [AccessD] Lookup Fields in Table Design > > >Forget it. You insist that your opinion carried the day. Go right >ahead and believe it, but don't expect everyone else to agree. > >Charlotte Foust > > >-- >_______________________________________________ >AccessD mailing list >AccessD at databaseadvisors.com >http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd >Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com >-- >_______________________________________________ >AccessD mailing list >AccessD at databaseadvisors.com >http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd >Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > > -- Marty Connelly Victoria, B.C. Canada -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From john at winhaven.net Tue Mar 30 13:06:13 2004 From: john at winhaven.net (John Bartow) Date: Tue, 30 Mar 2004 13:06:13 -0600 Subject: [AccessD] Lookup Fields in Table Design In-Reply-To: <8B98F8EA48F8BA47A2F24E0D0AF40CF407AD8053@xlivmbx12.aig.com> Message-ID: Well, in that case I think I misunderstood "bounders" also - what are bounders? -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Heenan, Lambert Sent: Tuesday, March 30, 2004 12:37 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: [AccessD] Lookup Fields in Table Design A cad is someone you would not wish your daughter to marry, particularly if you are from the pink gin swilling, monocle wearing 1920's era upper class society, much written about by the like of P.G. Woodhouse and Dorothy L Sayer. cad (k?d) noun An unprincipled, ungentlemanly man. Lambert > -----Original Message----- > From: John Bartow [SMTP:john at winhaven.net] > Sent: Tuesday, March 30, 2004 1:10 PM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: RE: [AccessD] Lookup Fields in Table Design > > Ok, I was just going to avoid sounding stupid here but what the heck... > > What are Cads? > > John > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Charlotte > Foust > Sent: Tuesday, March 30, 2004 10:49 AM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: RE: [AccessD] Lookup Fields in Table Design > > > ROTFL > > Could we get pennants made up for each side? > > Charlotte Foust > > -----Original Message----- > From: MartyConnelly [mailto:martyconnelly at shaw.ca] > Sent: Monday, March 29, 2004 5:45 PM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: Re: [AccessD] Lookup Fields in Table Design > > > I was hoping for "Bounders" and "Cads" > > John Bartow wrote: > > >I guess maybe "nay-sayers" had a negative connotation to it. > > > >Next time I think I'll call the opposing views "Shirts" and "Skins". > >Maybe we'll get more people participating :o) > > > >-----Original Message----- > >From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > >[mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of > >DWUTKA at marlow.com > >Sent: Monday, March 29, 2004 3:51 PM > >To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com > >Subject: RE: [AccessD] Lookup Fields in Table Design > > > > > >Thank you. I've had my opinion changed on this list before too. And I > > >always learn something new in here. But I was wondering if I was > >starting to lose it, because I hadn't seen any solid 'evidence' from > >the nay-sayers. That's all I was asking for. Reproducable results. It > > >was very easy for me to reproduce the Date Table 'examples', and see > >that they are definitely more efficient then using calculations in a > >query, for sorting and searching. > > > >Just haven't seen anything like that with the Lookup topic. Which > >isn't surprising though. It is something that has been mystified in > >the 'relational database' world. It's in books, on the web, and thus > >is defended simply by pointing to other references. Those are the > >hardest walls to topple. It's a paradigm. > > > >Drew > > > >-----Original Message----- > >From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > >[mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of John Bartow > >Sent: Monday, March 29, 2004 3:16 PM > >To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > >Subject: RE: [AccessD] Lookup Fields in Table Design > > > > > >I started the thread decidely not using lookup properties for the past > >5 years because of the overwhelming attitude among developers that it > >shouldn't be used. (IIRC that's when I first read Dev's "10 > >Commandments".) > > > >I had no "side" in this debate other than pointing out weaknesses I saw > > >in specific arguments (and being "cutesy" at times) Rarely is someone > >go to fully switch "sides" in a debate. (So I don't expect everyone to > >agree with > >me.) I believe that, based on this thread, the people who argued that > it is > >OK to use lookup properties have won the day. > > > >Unless someone comes up with a solid reason why it should never be used > > >I will not hesitate to use it again when the situation warrants. > > > >I challenge anyone to use facts to convince me otherwise. In fact I > >would very much appreciate it. And I'll buy you a few if you can do so! > > > >John "always open to the facts" Bartow > > > > > >-----Original Message----- > >From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > >[mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Charlotte > >Foust > >Sent: Monday, March 29, 2004 2:44 PM > >To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > >Subject: RE: [AccessD] Lookup Fields in Table Design > > > > > >Forget it. You insist that your opinion carried the day. Go right > >ahead and believe it, but don't expect everyone else to agree. > > > >Charlotte Foust > > > > > >-- > >_______________________________________________ > >AccessD mailing list > >AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > >http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > >Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > >-- > >_______________________________________________ > >AccessD mailing list > >AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > >http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > >Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > > > > > > > > > -- > Marty Connelly > Victoria, B.C. > Canada > > > > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From andy at minstersystems.co.uk Tue Mar 30 13:12:59 2004 From: andy at minstersystems.co.uk (Andy Lacey) Date: Tue, 30 Mar 2004 20:12:59 +0100 Subject: [AccessD] OT: A survey from somebody not as well-connected as JC In-Reply-To: <00ae01c415e2$cb59d1f0$6101a8c0@dejpolsys> Message-ID: <000101c4168b$04289450$b274d0d5@minster33c3r25> I could write lots, or I could just say "William said it for me", which is not just easier but also true. Agree with every word of the sentiment, if not the detail on Netware etc. -- Andy Lacey http://www.minstersystems.co.uk > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of > William Hindman > Sent: 30 March 2004 00:09 > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: Re: [AccessD] OT: A survey from somebody not as > well-connected as JC > > > ...don't take this the wrong way Steve but some of the > questions you ask point away from the answers you want imnsho > ...Access is a tool for me ...I don't get clients ...or keep > them ...because I use Access ...or any other tool ...I get > and keep clients because I solve their problems ...99% could > care less what I use as long as it works and fits their budget. > > ...of course I'm not trying to get rich like Rocky nor invent > a new wheel like JC ...I do what it takes to make a client > happy ...that, or I colbyize them ...I got into the SBS gig > because a client was getting a raw deal from a Netware house > and I agreed to fix his network if he'd invest the money in > what I recommended ...he agreed and I bought a couple books > on SBS and found a good list and he's happy and passed me on > to a couple others and so on ...same with websites which I've > now taken up for profit ...client was getting a raw deal and > asked my advice ...so I bought a couple of books and found a > good list and its starting to look pretty nice and he wants > loads more and there is another waiting with baited breath > ...if I want the work > :) > > ...but I'm just me and don't have any intention of ever > working hard again ...so much of this may not apply to you > ...but I'd think that if you focused a lot more on what the > client needs rather than what gadget you're fixing to use, > you might solve both of your problems :) > > ...just my two cents of course ...others may well see it > different and I won't mind at all :) > > William Hindman > ipsedixitism: something is true because I myself have said it > is true ...the philosophy of Noam Chomsky :) > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Steven W. Erbach" > To: "Access Developers discussion and problem solving" > > Sent: Monday, March 29, 2004 11:16 AM > Subject: [AccessD] OT: A survey from somebody not as > well-connected as JC > > > > Dear Group, > > > > This is for the independent developers only. If you work > for a company > > and > you'd like to take the survey, just let me know that you're > not an independent developer when you reply. > > > > I'm curious about what you independent developers have had > to learn to > keep up with the changing marketplace. > > > > 1) If you've managed to maintain a significant clientele by > developing > Access applications, what have you done to sharpen your > skills to make you more attractive as the developer of choice > in a competitive field? That is, have you developed a > framework like JC, or have you gone more towards developing > front ends for SQL back ends like Arthur? > > > > 2) If you've moved away from Access development as your > primary source > > of > income, what other platforms have you learned to make a > living? Do you now do mostly .NET development, ASP, SQL > Server, PHP, what? > > > > 3) If you're doing .NET development, what kind of things are you > > doing? > Has it lived up to the hype? Last year about this time I was > searching the want ads for positions before I decided to > stick with my own business. I was amused by the ads that > profiled the "ideal" candidate as one who had deep .NET > experience. The stinking product had only officially been on > the market for one whole year with another year in beta > before that. Sheesh! Have you seen any real live .NET > implementations that are worth bragging about...or have you > created any? > > > > In short, what have you had to do to make yourself useful as an > independent developer? I know that William works quite a bit > with SBS and LANs. Have any of you developed proficiency with > cabling and routers and such to increase your marketability? > > > > Do you do any security consulting, say? Do you build > custom-order PCs? > > Do > you do LAN management, e-mail server management and setup, > web site development? > > > > One final thing: Years ago when I started I took advantage of the > > swing of > the pendulum that put PC power in users' hands. That is, the > PC was a great analysis tool for mainframe data. Lotus 1-2-3, > dBASE III, Paradox, etc., were the tools that enabled users > and departments to fiddle with the data without having to > wait for the IT department to get around to their little > pissant application requests. > > > > Now the pendulum has swung the other way. Security concerns and > scalability and distributed networks / VPNs and web-based > database applications have all made the pendulum swing back > towards centralized control...and the IT guys are loving it. > Or am I reading it wrong? What do you think? > > > > Regards, > > > > Steve Erbach > > Scientific Marketing > > Neenah, WI > > 920-969-0504 > > > > Security and Virus information: http://www.swerbach.com/security > > > > -- > > _______________________________________________ > > AccessD mailing list > > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > From andy at minstersystems.co.uk Tue Mar 30 13:17:33 2004 From: andy at minstersystems.co.uk (Andy Lacey) Date: Tue, 30 Mar 2004 20:17:33 +0100 Subject: [AccessD] OT: A survey from somebody not as well-connected as JC In-Reply-To: <20040329211612.710613534.serbach@new.rr.com> Message-ID: <000401c4168b$a7711dd0$b274d0d5@minster33c3r25> I envy Rocky (sort of) but won't be trying to emulate him. Been there, tried that, and failed. Problem with the product thing is that you have to metamorphose from developer into marketer, and I couldn't. Not my thing at all. Plus IME it involves sinking money into advertising, mailing, brochures, websites nd so on. You have to be prepared to risk big outlay against no guarantee of return. Done that 2 or 3 times to great cost and no great return. Won't be doing it again. -- Andy Lacey http://www.minstersystems.co.uk > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of > Steven W. Erbach > Sent: 30 March 2004 04:16 > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: Re: [AccessD] OT: A survey from somebody not as > well-connected as JC > > > William, > > >> ...don't take this the wrong way << > > I won't. I appreciate your point of view. I have gotten > caught up in the tools as if owning the right brand of socket > wrench will guarantee me a living. > > But I hear you on the client-centered approach. I've worked > on lots of things that were outside of my skill-set comfort zone. > > I talked with a friend recently about my business and he > asked if there was anything I specialized in. I told him no; > my business is producing custom solutions to solve customer > problems. He recommended a product-centered approach, like > what Rocky is aiming for. I have a long-term care facility > marketing and donations program I wrote that might fill the > bill. We'll see. > > >> ...but I'm just me and don't have any intention of ever > working hard > >> again << > > Not really an option for me as we're having some tough times > financially. I can dig the varietal nature of your work, > though. Thanks. > > Regards, > > Steve Erbach > Scientific Marketing > Neenah, WI > > "You must be an intellectual. No normal person would say a > thing like that." - George Orwell > > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/a> ccessd > Website: > http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > From andy at minstersystems.co.uk Tue Mar 30 13:18:17 2004 From: andy at minstersystems.co.uk (Andy Lacey) Date: Tue, 30 Mar 2004 20:18:17 +0100 Subject: [AccessD] Lookup Fields in Table Design In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <000b01c4168b$c1a0c2a0$b274d0d5@minster33c3r25> 1) cads 2) opposite of unbounders -- Andy Lacey http://www.minstersystems.co.uk > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of John Bartow > Sent: 30 March 2004 20:06 > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: RE: [AccessD] Lookup Fields in Table Design > > > Well, in that case I think I misunderstood "bounders" also - > what are bounders? > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of > Heenan, Lambert > Sent: Tuesday, March 30, 2004 12:37 PM > To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' > Subject: RE: [AccessD] Lookup Fields in Table Design > > > A cad is someone you would not wish your daughter to marry, > particularly if you are from the pink gin swilling, monocle > wearing 1920's era upper class society, much written about by > the like of P.G. Woodhouse and Dorothy L Sayer. > > cad (k?d) noun > An unprincipled, ungentlemanly man. > > Lambert > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: John Bartow [SMTP:john at winhaven.net] > > Sent: Tuesday, March 30, 2004 1:10 PM > > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > > Subject: RE: [AccessD] Lookup Fields in Table Design > > > > Ok, I was just going to avoid sounding stupid here but what the > > heck... > > > > What are Cads? > > > > John > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Charlotte > > Foust > > Sent: Tuesday, March 30, 2004 10:49 AM > > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > > Subject: RE: [AccessD] Lookup Fields in Table Design > > > > > > ROTFL > > > > Could we get pennants made up for each side? > > > > Charlotte Foust > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: MartyConnelly [mailto:martyconnelly at shaw.ca] > > Sent: Monday, March 29, 2004 5:45 PM > > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > > Subject: Re: [AccessD] Lookup Fields in Table Design > > > > > > I was hoping for "Bounders" and "Cads" > > > > John Bartow wrote: > > > > >I guess maybe "nay-sayers" had a negative connotation to it. > > > > > >Next time I think I'll call the opposing views "Shirts" > and "Skins". > > >Maybe we'll get more people participating :o) > > > > > >-----Original Message----- > > >From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > > >[mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of > > >DWUTKA at marlow.com > > >Sent: Monday, March 29, 2004 3:51 PM > > >To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com > > >Subject: RE: [AccessD] Lookup Fields in Table Design > > > > > > > > >Thank you. I've had my opinion changed on this list > before too. And > > >I > > > > >always learn something new in here. But I was wondering if I was > > >starting to lose it, because I hadn't seen any solid > 'evidence' from > > >the nay-sayers. That's all I was asking for. Reproducable > results. > > >It > > > > >was very easy for me to reproduce the Date Table > 'examples', and see > > >that they are definitely more efficient then using > calculations in a > > >query, for sorting and searching. > > > > > >Just haven't seen anything like that with the Lookup topic. Which > > >isn't surprising though. It is something that has been > mystified in > > >the 'relational database' world. It's in books, on the > web, and thus > > >is defended simply by pointing to other references. Those are the > > >hardest walls to topple. It's a paradigm. > > > > > >Drew > > > > > >-----Original Message----- > > >From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > > >[mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of > John Bartow > > >Sent: Monday, March 29, 2004 3:16 PM > > >To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > > >Subject: RE: [AccessD] Lookup Fields in Table Design > > > > > > > > >I started the thread decidely not using lookup properties for the > > >past 5 years because of the overwhelming attitude among developers > > >that it shouldn't be used. (IIRC that's when I first read Dev's "10 > > >Commandments".) > > > > > >I had no "side" in this debate other than pointing out > weaknesses I > > >saw > > > > >in specific arguments (and being "cutesy" at times) Rarely > is someone > > >go to fully switch "sides" in a debate. (So I don't expect > everyone > > >to agree with > > >me.) I believe that, based on this thread, the people who > argued that > > it is > > >OK to use lookup properties have won the day. > > > > > >Unless someone comes up with a solid reason why it should never be > > >used > > > > >I will not hesitate to use it again when the situation warrants. > > > > > >I challenge anyone to use facts to convince me otherwise. > In fact I > > >would very much appreciate it. And I'll buy you a few if > you can do > > >so! > > > > > >John "always open to the facts" Bartow > > > > > > > > >-----Original Message----- > > >From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > > >[mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of > Charlotte > > >Foust > > >Sent: Monday, March 29, 2004 2:44 PM > > >To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > > >Subject: RE: [AccessD] Lookup Fields in Table Design > > > > > > > > >Forget it. You insist that your opinion carried the day. > Go right > > >ahead and believe it, but don't expect everyone else to agree. > > > > > >Charlotte Foust > > > > > > > > >-- > > >_______________________________________________ > > >AccessD mailing list > > >AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > >http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > > >Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > >-- > > >_______________________________________________ > > >AccessD mailing list > > >AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > >http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > > >Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -- > > Marty Connelly > > Victoria, B.C. > > Canada > > > > > > > > -- > > _______________________________________________ > > AccessD mailing list > > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > -- > > _______________________________________________ > > AccessD mailing list > > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > > > > > -- > > _______________________________________________ > > AccessD mailing list > > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/a> ccessd > Website: > http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > -- > > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/a> ccessd > Website: > http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > From stuart at lexacorp.com.pg Tue Mar 30 13:22:10 2004 From: stuart at lexacorp.com.pg (Stuart McLachlan) Date: Wed, 31 Mar 2004 05:22:10 +1000 Subject: [AccessD] Lookup Fields in Table Design In-Reply-To: References: <8B98F8EA48F8BA47A2F24E0D0AF40CF407AD8053@xlivmbx12.aig.com> Message-ID: <406A5582.18840.4C770FD@localhost> On 30 Mar 2004 at 13:06, John Bartow wrote: > Well, in that case I think I misunderstood "bounders" also - what are > bounders? > Similar to a cad. See http://www.calpundit.com/archives/003324.html -- Lexacorp Ltd http://www.lexacorp.com.pg Information Technology Consultancy, Software Development,System Support. From john at winhaven.net Tue Mar 30 13:34:45 2004 From: john at winhaven.net (John Bartow) Date: Tue, 30 Mar 2004 13:34:45 -0600 Subject: [AccessD] Lookup Fields in Table Design In-Reply-To: <406A5582.18840.4C770FD@localhost> Message-ID: OK that clears that up then, I'm going with "shirts and skins"! :o) -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Stuart McLachlan Sent: Tuesday, March 30, 2004 1:22 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problemsolving Subject: RE: [AccessD] Lookup Fields in Table Design On 30 Mar 2004 at 13:06, John Bartow wrote: > Well, in that case I think I misunderstood "bounders" also - what are > bounders? > Similar to a cad. See http://www.calpundit.com/archives/003324.html -- Lexacorp Ltd http://www.lexacorp.com.pg Information Technology Consultancy, Software Development,System Support. -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From cfoust at infostatsystems.com Tue Mar 30 13:39:17 2004 From: cfoust at infostatsystems.com (Charlotte Foust) Date: Tue, 30 Mar 2004 11:39:17 -0800 Subject: [AccessD] Lookup Fields in Table Design Message-ID: But bounders and cads is *much* cleverer and we can maintain our reputation for esoteric knowledge with those teams. Charlotte Foust -----Original Message----- From: John Bartow [mailto:john at winhaven.net] Sent: Tuesday, March 30, 2004 11:35 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] Lookup Fields in Table Design OK that clears that up then, I'm going with "shirts and skins"! :o) -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Stuart McLachlan Sent: Tuesday, March 30, 2004 1:22 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problemsolving Subject: RE: [AccessD] Lookup Fields in Table Design On 30 Mar 2004 at 13:06, John Bartow wrote: > Well, in that case I think I misunderstood "bounders" also - what are > bounders? > Similar to a cad. See http://www.calpundit.com/archives/003324.html -- Lexacorp Ltd http://www.lexacorp.com.pg Information Technology Consultancy, Software Development,System Support. -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From stuart at lexacorp.com.pg Tue Mar 30 13:40:45 2004 From: stuart at lexacorp.com.pg (Stuart McLachlan) Date: Wed, 31 Mar 2004 05:40:45 +1000 Subject: [AccessD] Lookup Fields in Table Design In-Reply-To: References: <406A5582.18840.4C770FD@localhost> Message-ID: <406A59DD.31923.4D8739A@localhost> On 30 Mar 2004 at 13:34, John Bartow wrote: > OK that clears that up then, I'm going with "shirts and skins"! > :o) > Do we have to post photos? :-) -- Lexacorp Ltd http://www.lexacorp.com.pg Information Technology Consultancy, Software Development,System Support. From DWUTKA at marlow.com Tue Mar 30 13:57:26 2004 From: DWUTKA at marlow.com (DWUTKA at marlow.com) Date: Tue, 30 Mar 2004 13:57:26 -0600 Subject: [AccessD] Lookup Fields in Table Design Message-ID: <2F8793082E00D4119A1700B0D0216BF802227A2B@main2.marlow.com> Ken, you are absolutely right. In math, one example of failure, proves a formula wrong. However, you are incorrect on the engineering example. Let's start with math. Your original posts said that Lookups bloated the database, and were a performance issue. Those were mathematically based arguments. I proved them wrong. For you to prove me wrong, and forever vindicate your arguments in those areas, you would need to show proof of their bloat/performance (under normal conditions, no other variables in the mix....). And before you try, keep in mind, that using a just a value list is just as valid a method of using lookups, as using a lookup query/table. So you'll need to show how ALL lookups are speed/size issues. (I did my testing with query/table lookups. No difference in speed or size, then if they were just relationships. Now for engineering. Engineers design things to fall within set tolerances. Everything they design have failure points. In fact, a lot of designs have built in failure points, to allow for non-crucial elements to fail, and reinforce crucial elements. Take the Challenger incident. Those O-Rings had FAIL POINTS at lower temperatures. The engineers knew, and they even warned NASA, but it was political dancing that killed the Astronauts, not the engineers. The people operating everything did not heed the engineering limits, and thus suffered the consequences. Take 9-11. The architects of the WTC never designed the towers to withstand a head on collision with a jet airliner. They WERE, however, designed to handle being clipped by one. You can't build anything, to compensate for every possible scenario. Now, if you follow that, take a look at your argument again. You are talking about later generational development. You are NOT talking about single generation development, which is where databases are originally designed. In the first place, Lookup's are not always an issue with later generational development. Lookup's are merely default controls. Now yes, if I'm doing a funky 'mergence', where I am not using all of the tables, then I have a LOT of stuff to look into. But if you take an older database BE, and go to create a new FE, the lookups are going to help. (If a single failure mode prove it's bad, doesn't a single helpful mode prove it's good? LOL). >Drew, you said on 3/26/2004 that "the problem is that Lookup fields do NOT >cause corruption.". I have now proven two cases where they do. They don't. Corruption is when a databases file structure fails in some manner. It is not mis-matching of data, because that is human failure, NOT database corruption. You might say that it could be 'data corruption', however, in the cases that you have marked, the data wasn't changed, the relationships were setup wrong. Again, a design flaw, NOT corruption. You really need to watch the lingo on that. Saying that a feature causes corruption, is a very strong thing to say. When in fact, I have never heard of a single Access feature that actually causes database corruption. Every database corruption I have ever come across (and have ever heard of on the list), had an outside (non-Access) influence. NIC's, faulty hardware, sunspots, etc. I'm going to give you a cross example to yours. Because in the first place, it wouldn't have mattered if the State field was a lookup or not, if they only imported the Address table, and used THEIR State table (lookup or not), they would have gotten the WRONG data. Yes, the lookup would SHOW them the wrong 'linked' data in datasheet view, but so would a query based on the same 'wrong' relationship. Don't see how Lookup's CAUSED that failure. Unthorough developers caused it. Here's my example. I have an Access database that is used in our company's website shopping cart. We use an Oracle database for our production database. Now, the company wants to take the 'website' customers, and import them into the Oracle database. The Oracle FE is a goofy system written in PROIV, but I can easily get at the Glovia tables. Now, I go in and find the table that obviously contains our customers. I match the fields up, and start pushing data through. Sooner or later, all sorts of things don't add up correctly. Why is that? Simple, the Oracle system has a SPROC, which is run by the FE when a new customer is entered. Relevant customer data is sprinkled all over the place, not just the main table. Because I am just putting data into the main table, and not running the SPROC, my data is not being 'sprinkled', and therefore, begins to cause LOTS of problems down the line. Now, when I look at the linked table from within Access, do I know that the table is supposed have a SPROC run, when data is entered? Yes, if it was setup as a trigger, the database would have done it itself, unfortunately, the original developers decided they wanted the FE to 'control' when the BE does stuff, so there are practically no triggers in Oracle for that system. Does this mean that SPROCS are bad? Because they weren't used correctly, that makes them the single point of failure. OR, does it mean that as a developer, I should have investigated whether a SPROC was supposed to run or not (which I did by the way). By your examples, I should have just played the idiot, and thrown my hands up in the air screaming 'Damn you SPROCS!'. Sorry, that was meant to be funny! LOL. Ken, all I have been saying, and am still saying, is that with the one exception of that form filter issue, there is nothing wrong with the designed function of the DefaultControl property. I have shown that if you are really concerned about them, that after initial design, they can be easily stripped from all of your fields with a little bit of code. I have shown that there are no performance or size issues involved when using this property. Many people have chimed in with examples of how they find them helpful. Does this mean you have to use them? Of course not. If you don't like to use them, DON'T. But don't tell me, that I'm am wrong for using them, when you can't prove that they are a speed/size concern, or when you can't show how they fail in the database they were designed for. Drew -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Ken Ismert Sent: Monday, March 29, 2004 10:42 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: [AccessD] Lookup Fields in Table Design Andy: You'll be happy to hear that this is my last post on this subject. I had intended to rest after my last post, but since John has asked me to clarify my position, I will do so, as succinctly as possible. My remarks will fall under three topics: general response, how table field lookups (TFLs) can compromise relational integrity, and a summary of my failure analysis. General Response ================ I suppose my mindset is different from my opponents. In mathematics, a postulate, no matter how seductive, can be disproven by a single counter-example. In engineering, a structural design, no matter how beautiful, will have to be corrected or compensated for if a single failure mode can be demonstrated. The data we engineer is no less real than lemmas or steel. My first responsibility is to the integrity of the data entrusted to me. Thus, failure analysis matters to me. Given a choice between a path that offers risk, no matter how slight, and another which offers equivalent results with no risk, I will take the latter every time. My duty to the data demands it. Drew, you said on 3/26/2004 that "the problem is that Lookup fields do NOT cause corruption.". I have now proven two cases where they do. You have made your points. But your refusal to allow for even a caveat on this topic is intellectually dishonest. You simply cannot claim that you are 100% correct. Why is this so hard for you to admit? But seriously, with your cavalier dismissal of potential causes of failure, I'm glad you didn't choose to be an engineer. I sure as hell wouldn't want to drive across any bridge you design. Of course data errors matter, if not to you, then certainly to the owners of the data. But, rather than follow my opponent's example of loudly and longly belittling the other side, adding nothing but rehashed versions of what he's said now dozens of times before, I have two NEW items to contribute. How TFLs Compromise Relational Integrity ======================================== Take two US divisions of a company: East and West. This company had a better data designer, who defined tblStates with three fields: ID - autonumber, Code - text, and Name - text. Better still, referential integrity was established with the ID foreign key in tblAddresses. Of course, TFLs were defined for the table/lookup pair. The only small, tiny flaw is, the data was entered differently for each division: East entered theirs in Name order, while West did theirs in State Postal Code order. So now we have two tables, with identical logical content, that have different IDs for most of the records. But both sets of IDs are numbered 1 to 50. So, the fateful day comes along when East wants to do a nationwide mailing, and requests West's database. West sends their copy, and East simply links West's tblAddresses into their front-end, creating tblAddresses1. Opening up tblAddresses1, everything looks great: every record has a state code -- no missing data. East does their mass mailing using a query off of tblAddresses1, and gets back a huge pile of returns for bad addresses. What has happened, of course, is the TFL in West's tblAddresses has cross-linked with East's tblStates, with autonumber IDs that transposed the state codes. Naturally, if East decided to help West and enter new addresses, relational integrity would allow it, because it cares only that the foreign key exists in the proper lookup table, not what it represents. The large potential weakness here is that if you look at any two tables with autonumber keys, there is almost always a large overlap in autonumber ID values. Under the right conditions, if you cross-link a smaller table to a larger table via TFLs, you might never notice until you have hose your data, ruined an audit, etc. So, TFLs can defeat even referential integrity. TFL Failure Analysis ==================== In front-end/backend applications, TFLs fail when their external context assumptions are violated. Assumption 1: The external lookup table will always exist. Path of failure: You don't link the lookup table in the front-end, or rename the link. No table with the same name exists. Consequences: Intermittent errors. Queries relying on TFL don't show expected values. Assumption 2: The external lookup table will always match the internal name. Path of failure: The correct lookup table is linked when another table of the same name exists, or is not linked when a table of the same name exists Failure Mode 1: One or more fields referenced in the lookup SQL do not exist. Consequences: Errors. Lookup values not properly displayed. Failure Mode 2: All fields referenced in the lookup SQL exist. Consequences: No errors. Inconsistent/incorrect data displayed. * If no referential integrity defined, data entry is possible using values from the wrong lookup table. * If referential integrity is defined on Autonumber ID's, integrity will be defeated where the ID in the wrong lookup table has a match in the correct one. -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From DWUTKA at marlow.com Tue Mar 30 13:58:14 2004 From: DWUTKA at marlow.com (DWUTKA at marlow.com) Date: Tue, 30 Mar 2004 13:58:14 -0600 Subject: [AccessD] Lookup Fields in Table Design Message-ID: <2F8793082E00D4119A1700B0D0216BF802227A2C@main2.marlow.com> Only the skins do. I call shirts! LOL Drew -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Stuart McLachlan Sent: Tuesday, March 30, 2004 1:41 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] Lookup Fields in Table Design On 30 Mar 2004 at 13:34, John Bartow wrote: > OK that clears that up then, I'm going with "shirts and skins"! > :o) > Do we have to post photos? :-) -- Lexacorp Ltd http://www.lexacorp.com.pg Information Technology Consultancy, Software Development,System Support. -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From john at winhaven.net Tue Mar 30 14:03:14 2004 From: john at winhaven.net (John Bartow) Date: Tue, 30 Mar 2004 14:03:14 -0600 Subject: [AccessD] Lookup Fields in Table Design In-Reply-To: Message-ID: But I'm _not_ a member of Mensa! ;o) -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Charlotte Foust Sent: Tuesday, March 30, 2004 1:39 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] Lookup Fields in Table Design But bounders and cads is *much* cleverer and we can maintain our reputation for esoteric knowledge with those teams. Charlotte Foust From john at winhaven.net Tue Mar 30 14:03:15 2004 From: john at winhaven.net (John Bartow) Date: Tue, 30 Mar 2004 14:03:15 -0600 Subject: [AccessD] Lookup Fields in Table Design In-Reply-To: <406A59DD.31923.4D8739A@localhost> Message-ID: avatars, maybe... -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Stuart McLachlan Sent: Tuesday, March 30, 2004 1:41 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problemsolving Subject: RE: [AccessD] Lookup Fields in Table Design On 30 Mar 2004 at 13:34, John Bartow wrote: > OK that clears that up then, I'm going with "shirts and skins"! > :o) > Do we have to post photos? :-) -- Lexacorp Ltd http://www.lexacorp.com.pg Information Technology Consultancy, Software Development,System Support. -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From johnskolits at corporatedatadesign.com Tue Mar 30 14:06:01 2004 From: johnskolits at corporatedatadesign.com (JOhn Skolits) Date: Tue, 30 Mar 2004 15:06:01 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Snapshot Viewer to text In-Reply-To: <000001c41681$35704940$a1194244@hargrove.internal> Message-ID: <005701c41692$6cff8d60$0f01a8c0@cddserver2> Anyone know if you can take a snapshot viewer file and convert it to text? John Skolits -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Mike & Doris Manning Sent: Tuesday, March 30, 2004 1:03 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: [AccessD] Default Printer for Access Report Open that report in design view and then click on "File" and choose "Page Setup". It is possible it get set accidentally when the report was designed. Doris Manning Database Administrator Hargrove Inc. www.hargroveinc.com -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Susan Geller Sent: Tuesday, March 30, 2004 12:28 PM To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: [AccessD] Default Printer for Access Report I have a reporting tool built in Access (2002) that is essentially a wizard where users pick a report, set criteria and then see their output. There are nearly 100 reports in the app. When a user choses to print a report, the default printer that comes up in the print dialog box is the default printer set on their machine, EXCEPT for one of the reports. On that one report only, the default printer that comes up in the dialogue box is a different printer. All users get this different printer. I did not write any code or make any settings to indicate printer choice. What could be happening? How can I get this one report to print to the user's default printer? Note: The only way that users can print a report is with a toolbar PRINT button that I brings up the dialogue box. There is no file menu from the reports and there is no button with a printer icon that sends reports straight to the printer. --Susan Susan B. Geller Office of Information Systems College of Continuing Education University of Minnesota 306 Wesbrook Hall 77 Pleasant Street SE Minneapolis, MN 55455 Phone: 612-626-4785 Fax: 612-625-2568 -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From DWUTKA at marlow.com Tue Mar 30 14:15:28 2004 From: DWUTKA at marlow.com (DWUTKA at marlow.com) Date: Tue, 30 Mar 2004 14:15:28 -0600 Subject: [AccessD] Snapshot Viewer to text Message-ID: <2F8793082E00D4119A1700B0D0216BF802227A2E@main2.marlow.com> Open it in Notepad? Just kidding. Sorry, in a wierd mood. Actually, opening it in notepad shows a lot of garbage. And I didn't see anything in Snapshot viewer that is going to work right. Sorry, this post isn't very helpful, is it. Drew -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of JOhn Skolits Sent: Tuesday, March 30, 2004 2:06 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: [AccessD] Snapshot Viewer to text Anyone know if you can take a snapshot viewer file and convert it to text? John Skolits -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Mike & Doris Manning Sent: Tuesday, March 30, 2004 1:03 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: [AccessD] Default Printer for Access Report Open that report in design view and then click on "File" and choose "Page Setup". It is possible it get set accidentally when the report was designed. Doris Manning Database Administrator Hargrove Inc. www.hargroveinc.com -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Susan Geller Sent: Tuesday, March 30, 2004 12:28 PM To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: [AccessD] Default Printer for Access Report I have a reporting tool built in Access (2002) that is essentially a wizard where users pick a report, set criteria and then see their output. There are nearly 100 reports in the app. When a user choses to print a report, the default printer that comes up in the print dialog box is the default printer set on their machine, EXCEPT for one of the reports. On that one report only, the default printer that comes up in the dialogue box is a different printer. All users get this different printer. I did not write any code or make any settings to indicate printer choice. What could be happening? How can I get this one report to print to the user's default printer? Note: The only way that users can print a report is with a toolbar PRINT button that I brings up the dialogue box. There is no file menu from the reports and there is no button with a printer icon that sends reports straight to the printer. --Susan Susan B. Geller Office of Information Systems College of Continuing Education University of Minnesota 306 Wesbrook Hall 77 Pleasant Street SE Minneapolis, MN 55455 Phone: 612-626-4785 Fax: 612-625-2568 -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From stuart at lexacorp.com.pg Tue Mar 30 14:31:56 2004 From: stuart at lexacorp.com.pg (Stuart McLachlan) Date: Wed, 31 Mar 2004 06:31:56 +1000 Subject: [AccessD] Snapshot Viewer to text In-Reply-To: <2F8793082E00D4119A1700B0D0216BF802227A2E@main2.marlow.com> Message-ID: <406A65DC.8345.50752FE@localhost> On 30 Mar 2004 at 14:15, DWUTKA at marlow.com wrote: > Open it in Notepad? Just kidding. Sorry, in a wierd mood. > > Actually, opening it in notepad shows a lot of garbage. And I didn't see > anything in Snapshot viewer that is going to work right. Sorry, this post > isn't very helpful, is it. > > Drew Set up a generic/text printer and direct it to File: Then print the snapshot. -- Lexacorp Ltd http://www.lexacorp.com.pg Information Technology Consultancy, Software Development,System Support. From reuben at gfconsultants.com Tue Mar 30 15:14:31 2004 From: reuben at gfconsultants.com (Reuben Cummings) Date: Tue, 30 Mar 2004 16:14:31 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Slow Forms Message-ID: I need help with a form that opens very slowly. Everything worked very quickly until I compacted and repaired the db. After compacting, this form will open slowly one time and then open quickly all other times. It will continue to open as I would expect it to until it is compacted again. However, if the app is made into an mde then it always opens slowly. The form is based on a query. There is a tab control on it. One tab has about 14 fields from the same recordsource as the main form. The other three tabs all have subforms based on queries. 2 of those queries have fields that call functions to get their value. All the queries and subforms open very quickly. And if I delete the subforms, the main form will always operate quickly. I have imported into new db's. I have completely rebuilt the main form. Any suggestions on where to start troubleshooting this thing? Thanks. Reuben Cummings GFC, LLC phone: 812.523.1017 email: reuben at gfconsultants.com From johnskolits at corporatedatadesign.com Tue Mar 30 15:21:43 2004 From: johnskolits at corporatedatadesign.com (John Skolits) Date: Tue, 30 Mar 2004 16:21:43 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Snapshot Viewer to text In-Reply-To: <2F8793082E00D4119A1700B0D0216BF802227A2E@main2.marlow.com> Message-ID: <005c01c4169c$ffd5fde0$0f01a8c0@cddserver2> Drew, Actually that was a pretty good one. Stuart, I actually tried that but there is too much junk in the file besides the text. But it indicates to me that there might be a way to do it since it at least had the text characters in there. -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of DWUTKA at marlow.com Sent: Tuesday, March 30, 2004 3:15 PM To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: RE: [AccessD] Snapshot Viewer to text Open it in Notepad? Just kidding. Sorry, in a wierd mood. Actually, opening it in notepad shows a lot of garbage. And I didn't see anything in Snapshot viewer that is going to work right. Sorry, this post isn't very helpful, is it. Drew -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of JOhn Skolits Sent: Tuesday, March 30, 2004 2:06 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: [AccessD] Snapshot Viewer to text Anyone know if you can take a snapshot viewer file and convert it to text? John Skolits -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Mike & Doris Manning Sent: Tuesday, March 30, 2004 1:03 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: [AccessD] Default Printer for Access Report Open that report in design view and then click on "File" and choose "Page Setup". It is possible it get set accidentally when the report was designed. Doris Manning Database Administrator Hargrove Inc. www.hargroveinc.com -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Susan Geller Sent: Tuesday, March 30, 2004 12:28 PM To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: [AccessD] Default Printer for Access Report I have a reporting tool built in Access (2002) that is essentially a wizard where users pick a report, set criteria and then see their output. There are nearly 100 reports in the app. When a user choses to print a report, the default printer that comes up in the print dialog box is the default printer set on their machine, EXCEPT for one of the reports. On that one report only, the default printer that comes up in the dialogue box is a different printer. All users get this different printer. I did not write any code or make any settings to indicate printer choice. What could be happening? How can I get this one report to print to the user's default printer? Note: The only way that users can print a report is with a toolbar PRINT button that I brings up the dialogue box. There is no file menu from the reports and there is no button with a printer icon that sends reports straight to the printer. --Susan Susan B. Geller Office of Information Systems College of Continuing Education University of Minnesota 306 Wesbrook Hall 77 Pleasant Street SE Minneapolis, MN 55455 Phone: 612-626-4785 Fax: 612-625-2568 -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From jimdettman at earthlink.net Tue Mar 30 15:18:55 2004 From: jimdettman at earthlink.net (Jim Dettman) Date: Tue, 30 Mar 2004 16:18:55 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Slow Forms In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Reuben, <> Not sure what you mean by "slow" (i.e. drastic difference?), but you will in general see that after any compact as the database stats are reset and all query plans are redone the first time a query is executed. Jim Dettman President, Online Computer Services of WNY, Inc. (315) 699-3443 jimdettman at earthlink.net -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Reuben Cummings Sent: Tuesday, March 30, 2004 4:15 PM To: AccessD Subject: [AccessD] Slow Forms I need help with a form that opens very slowly. Everything worked very quickly until I compacted and repaired the db. After compacting, this form will open slowly one time and then open quickly all other times. It will continue to open as I would expect it to until it is compacted again. However, if the app is made into an mde then it always opens slowly. The form is based on a query. There is a tab control on it. One tab has about 14 fields from the same recordsource as the main form. The other three tabs all have subforms based on queries. 2 of those queries have fields that call functions to get their value. All the queries and subforms open very quickly. And if I delete the subforms, the main form will always operate quickly. I have imported into new db's. I have completely rebuilt the main form. Any suggestions on where to start troubleshooting this thing? Thanks. Reuben Cummings GFC, LLC phone: 812.523.1017 email: reuben at gfconsultants.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From cfoust at infostatsystems.com Tue Mar 30 15:26:54 2004 From: cfoust at infostatsystems.com (Charlotte Foust) Date: Tue, 30 Mar 2004 13:26:54 -0800 Subject: [AccessD] Lookup Fields in Table Design Message-ID: Programmers have their own esoteric knowledge and vocabulary, ask any user. Charlotte Foust -----Original Message----- From: John Bartow [mailto:john at winhaven.net] Sent: Tuesday, March 30, 2004 12:03 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] Lookup Fields in Table Design But I'm _not_ a member of Mensa! ;o) -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Charlotte Foust Sent: Tuesday, March 30, 2004 1:39 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] Lookup Fields in Table Design But bounders and cads is *much* cleverer and we can maintain our reputation for esoteric knowledge with those teams. Charlotte Foust -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From reuben at gfconsultants.com Tue Mar 30 15:30:10 2004 From: reuben at gfconsultants.com (Reuben Cummings) Date: Tue, 30 Mar 2004 16:30:10 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Slow Forms In-Reply-To: Message-ID: When I say slow I mean from 1 second before compacting to 11-15 seconds the first time and 1 second afterward. In an mde it always takes about 11-15 seconds on my machine and 30 seconds across the network. I should have mentioned the app is split and in A2K. Reuben Cummings GFC, LLC phone: 812.523.1017 email: reuben at gfconsultants.com > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Jim Dettman > Sent: Tuesday, March 30, 2004 4:19 PM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: RE: [AccessD] Slow Forms > > > Reuben, > > < After > compacting, this form will open slowly one time and then open quickly all > other times. It will continue to open as I would expect it to until it is > compacted again.>> > > Not sure what you mean by "slow" (i.e. drastic difference?), > but you will > in general see that after any compact as the database stats are reset and > all query plans are redone the first time a query is executed. > > Jim Dettman > President, > Online Computer Services of WNY, Inc. > (315) 699-3443 > jimdettman at earthlink.net > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Reuben > Cummings > Sent: Tuesday, March 30, 2004 4:15 PM > To: AccessD > Subject: [AccessD] Slow Forms > > > I need help with a form that opens very slowly. > > Everything worked very quickly until I compacted and repaired the > db. After > compacting, this form will open slowly one time and then open quickly all > other times. It will continue to open as I would expect it to until it is > compacted again. > > However, if the app is made into an mde then it always opens slowly. > > The form is based on a query. There is a tab control on it. One tab has > about 14 fields from the same recordsource as the main form. The other > three tabs all have subforms based on queries. 2 of those queries have > fields that call functions to get their value. > > All the queries and subforms open very quickly. And if I delete the > subforms, the main form will always operate quickly. > > I have imported into new db's. I have completely rebuilt the main form. > > Any suggestions on where to start troubleshooting this thing? > > Thanks. > > Reuben Cummings > GFC, LLC > phone: 812.523.1017 > email: reuben at gfconsultants.com > > > > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > From john at winhaven.net Tue Mar 30 15:45:36 2004 From: john at winhaven.net (John Bartow) Date: Tue, 30 Mar 2004 15:45:36 -0600 Subject: [AccessD] OT: A survey from somebody not as well-connected as JC In-Reply-To: Message-ID: I've gotten Acccess work because of it - so I encourage its adoption! ;o) -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Charlotte Foust Sent: Monday, March 29, 2004 2:42 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] OT: A survey from somebody not as well-connected as JC LOL! I've never met anyone who had to use Lotus Notes that liked it. Charlotte Foust -----Original Message----- From: Bryan Carbonnell [mailto:Bryan_Carbonnell at cbc.ca] Sent: Monday, March 29, 2004 11:29 AM To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: RE: [AccessD] OT: A survey from somebody not as well-connected as JC Lotus Notes does what it's designed too?? Obviously you haven't used it :) I certainly doesn't do that. Well unless it was designed to frustrate the user and make a simple task difficult :-) I use it everyday and can't wait until it gets replaced. Bryan Carbonnell bryan_carbonnell at cbc.ca >>> DWUTKA at marlow.com 29-Mar-04 2:20:28 PM >>> Quite frankly, from my perspective, .Net is a lot like Lotus Notes. I know it's out there. I know people use it. I know it does what it's designed to do. But, other then that, it has little affect/interest with me, because I just haven't had anyone tell me something has to be developed in it, nor have I had to use it for it's capabilities. -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From SDSSoftware at optusnet.com.au Tue Mar 30 15:49:46 2004 From: SDSSoftware at optusnet.com.au (Kath Pelletti) Date: Wed, 31 Mar 2004 07:49:46 +1000 Subject: [AccessD] OT: A survey from somebody not as well-connected as JC References: <000401c4168b$a7711dd0$b274d0d5@minster33c3r25> Message-ID: <007d01c416a0$eb0617c0$6401a8c0@user> So true - I think being a salesperson is either in the blood or not...and I don't seem to have that gene either......on the other hand if you know that what you are selling is *great* then maybe..... The other thing is the cost of stuff online. I recently developed a system for my husband's wholesale travel business - to produce quotations p/passenger and all that stuff - took ages as it is customised. Try selling that online - there are systems there being offered for $US300 - I wouldn't be willing to support anything for that money. (By the way - Drew - put me down as a sayer). Kath ----- Original Message ----- From: Andy Lacey To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Sent: Wednesday, March 31, 2004 5:17 AM Subject: RE: [AccessD] OT: A survey from somebody not as well-connected as JC I envy Rocky (sort of) but won't be trying to emulate him. Been there, tried that, and failed. Problem with the product thing is that you have to metamorphose from developer into marketer, and I couldn't. Not my thing at all. Plus IME it involves sinking money into advertising, mailing, brochures, websites nd so on. You have to be prepared to risk big outlay against no guarantee of return. Done that 2 or 3 times to great cost and no great return. Won't be doing it again. -- Andy Lacey http://www.minstersystems.co.uk > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of > Steven W. Erbach > Sent: 30 March 2004 04:16 > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: Re: [AccessD] OT: A survey from somebody not as > well-connected as JC > > > William, > > >> ...don't take this the wrong way << > > I won't. I appreciate your point of view. I have gotten > caught up in the tools as if owning the right brand of socket > wrench will guarantee me a living. > > But I hear you on the client-centered approach. I've worked > on lots of things that were outside of my skill-set comfort zone. > > I talked with a friend recently about my business and he > asked if there was anything I specialized in. I told him no; > my business is producing custom solutions to solve customer > problems. He recommended a product-centered approach, like > what Rocky is aiming for. I have a long-term care facility > marketing and donations program I wrote that might fill the > bill. We'll see. > > >> ...but I'm just me and don't have any intention of ever > working hard > >> again << > > Not really an option for me as we're having some tough times > financially. I can dig the varietal nature of your work, > though. Thanks. > > Regards, > > Steve Erbach > Scientific Marketing > Neenah, WI > > "You must be an intellectual. No normal person would say a > thing like that." - George Orwell > > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/a> ccessd > Website: > http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From john at winhaven.net Tue Mar 30 15:50:53 2004 From: john at winhaven.net (John Bartow) Date: Tue, 30 Mar 2004 15:50:53 -0600 Subject: [AccessD] OT: A survey from somebody not as well-connected as JC In-Reply-To: <000401c4168b$a7711dd0$b274d0d5@minster33c3r25> Message-ID: Same happened to me. I wrote an app 4 years ago that had all the prospects I needed until it came time for the excited prospective customers to pay for it. It would've been a great "foot in the door" app. for me. Never would be a big money maker and I didn't really need to much on it to break even. I'll probably break even on selling the upgrades next year. Moral of the story - never write an app for a government function unless its contracted! -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Andy Lacey Sent: Tuesday, March 30, 2004 1:18 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: [AccessD] OT: A survey from somebody not as well-connected as JC I envy Rocky (sort of) but won't be trying to emulate him. Been there, tried that, and failed. Problem with the product thing is that you have to metamorphose from developer into marketer, and I couldn't. Not my thing at all. Plus IME it involves sinking money into advertising, mailing, brochures, websites nd so on. You have to be prepared to risk big outlay against no guarantee of return. Done that 2 or 3 times to great cost and no great return. Won't be doing it again. -- Andy Lacey http://www.minstersystems.co.uk > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of > Steven W. Erbach > Sent: 30 March 2004 04:16 > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: Re: [AccessD] OT: A survey from somebody not as > well-connected as JC > > > William, > > >> ...don't take this the wrong way << > > I won't. I appreciate your point of view. I have gotten > caught up in the tools as if owning the right brand of socket > wrench will guarantee me a living. > > But I hear you on the client-centered approach. I've worked > on lots of things that were outside of my skill-set comfort zone. > > I talked with a friend recently about my business and he > asked if there was anything I specialized in. I told him no; > my business is producing custom solutions to solve customer > problems. He recommended a product-centered approach, like > what Rocky is aiming for. I have a long-term care facility > marketing and donations program I wrote that might fill the > bill. We'll see. > > >> ...but I'm just me and don't have any intention of ever > working hard > >> again << > > Not really an option for me as we're having some tough times > financially. I can dig the varietal nature of your work, > though. Thanks. > > Regards, > > Steve Erbach > Scientific Marketing > Neenah, WI > > "You must be an intellectual. No normal person would say a > thing like that." - George Orwell > > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/a> ccessd > Website: > http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From bchacc at san.rr.com Tue Mar 30 16:48:38 2004 From: bchacc at san.rr.com (Rocky Smolin - Beach Access Software) Date: Tue, 30 Mar 2004 14:48:38 -0800 Subject: [AccessD] OT: A survey from somebody not as well-connected as JC References: Message-ID: <026501c416a9$24181a60$6601a8c0@HAL9002> Andy: Don't envy me. They jury's still out. I've got a bit of a buffer so we won't miss any meals, but that can't go on forever. I've had two good products and several bad ones. At least this time I'm starting in an economy that's on the upswing. But I've always been a bootstrap kind of guy - we're doing a mailing in San Diego county this month. Hopefully snag two or three systems. Then use that money to mail again in another county. Build it up slowly. Instead of mortgaging the house. I'm still doing some fee-for-service as well. So that keeps some of the lights on. It's a high wire act for sure. But when it does work, it's a thing of beauty. Rocky > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Andy Lacey > Sent: Tuesday, March 30, 2004 1:18 PM > To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' > Subject: RE: [AccessD] OT: A survey from somebody not as well-connected > as JC > > > I envy Rocky (sort of) but won't be trying to emulate him. Been there, tried > that, and failed. Problem with the product thing is that you have to > metamorphose from developer into marketer, and I couldn't. Not my thing at > all. Plus IME it involves sinking money into advertising, mailing, > brochures, websites nd so on. You have to be prepared to risk big outlay > against no guarantee of return. Done that 2 or 3 times to great cost and no > great return. Won't be doing it again. > > -- Andy Lacey > http://www.minstersystems.co.uk > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of > > Steven W. Erbach > > Sent: 30 March 2004 04:16 > > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > > Subject: Re: [AccessD] OT: A survey from somebody not as > > well-connected as JC > > > > > > William, > > > > >> ...don't take this the wrong way << > > > > I won't. I appreciate your point of view. I have gotten > > caught up in the tools as if owning the right brand of socket > > wrench will guarantee me a living. > > > > But I hear you on the client-centered approach. I've worked > > on lots of things that were outside of my skill-set comfort zone. > > > > I talked with a friend recently about my business and he > > asked if there was anything I specialized in. I told him no; > > my business is producing custom solutions to solve customer > > problems. He recommended a product-centered approach, like > > what Rocky is aiming for. I have a long-term care facility > > marketing and donations program I wrote that might fill the > > bill. We'll see. > > > > >> ...but I'm just me and don't have any intention of ever > > working hard > > >> again << > > > > Not really an option for me as we're having some tough times > > financially. I can dig the varietal nature of your work, > > though. Thanks. > > > > Regards, > > > > Steve Erbach > > Scientific Marketing > > Neenah, WI > > > > "You must be an intellectual. No normal person would say a > > thing like that." - George Orwell > > > > -- > > _______________________________________________ > > AccessD mailing list > > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/a> ccessd > > Website: > > http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > > > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > From bchacc at san.rr.com Tue Mar 30 16:50:54 2004 From: bchacc at san.rr.com (Rocky Smolin - Beach Access Software) Date: Tue, 30 Mar 2004 14:50:54 -0800 Subject: [AccessD] Slow Forms References: Message-ID: <027701c416a9$75424d20$6601a8c0@HAL9002> Reuben: Shot in the dark - try decompiling. That sometimes works for me for no apparent reason. Rocky ----- Original Message ----- From: "Reuben Cummings" To: "Access Developers discussion and problem solving" Sent: Tuesday, March 30, 2004 1:30 PM Subject: RE: [AccessD] Slow Forms > When I say slow I mean from 1 second before compacting to 11-15 seconds the > first time and 1 second afterward. > > In an mde it always takes about 11-15 seconds on my machine and 30 seconds > across the network. > > I should have mentioned the app is split and in A2K. > > Reuben Cummings > GFC, LLC > phone: 812.523.1017 > email: reuben at gfconsultants.com > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Jim Dettman > > Sent: Tuesday, March 30, 2004 4:19 PM > > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > > Subject: RE: [AccessD] Slow Forms > > > > > > Reuben, > > > > < > After > > compacting, this form will open slowly one time and then open quickly all > > other times. It will continue to open as I would expect it to until it is > > compacted again.>> > > > > Not sure what you mean by "slow" (i.e. drastic difference?), > > but you will > > in general see that after any compact as the database stats are reset and > > all query plans are redone the first time a query is executed. > > > > Jim Dettman > > President, > > Online Computer Services of WNY, Inc. > > (315) 699-3443 > > jimdettman at earthlink.net > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Reuben > > Cummings > > Sent: Tuesday, March 30, 2004 4:15 PM > > To: AccessD > > Subject: [AccessD] Slow Forms > > > > > > I need help with a form that opens very slowly. > > > > Everything worked very quickly until I compacted and repaired the > > db. After > > compacting, this form will open slowly one time and then open quickly all > > other times. It will continue to open as I would expect it to until it is > > compacted again. > > > > However, if the app is made into an mde then it always opens slowly. > > > > The form is based on a query. There is a tab control on it. One tab has > > about 14 fields from the same recordsource as the main form. The other > > three tabs all have subforms based on queries. 2 of those queries have > > fields that call functions to get their value. > > > > All the queries and subforms open very quickly. And if I delete the > > subforms, the main form will always operate quickly. > > > > I have imported into new db's. I have completely rebuilt the main form. > > > > Any suggestions on where to start troubleshooting this thing? > > > > Thanks. > > > > Reuben Cummings > > GFC, LLC > > phone: 812.523.1017 > > email: reuben at gfconsultants.com > > > > > > > > -- > > _______________________________________________ > > AccessD mailing list > > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > > > -- > > _______________________________________________ > > AccessD mailing list > > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > > > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > From SDSSoftware at optusnet.com.au Tue Mar 30 16:59:25 2004 From: SDSSoftware at optusnet.com.au (Kath Pelletti) Date: Wed, 31 Mar 2004 08:59:25 +1000 Subject: [AccessD] OT: A survey from somebody not as well-connected as JC References: <026501c416a9$24181a60$6601a8c0@HAL9002> Message-ID: <001901c416aa$abe96e70$6401a8c0@user> Rocky - out of interest - what support arrangements / fees are you offering? Kath ----- Original Message ----- From: Rocky Smolin - Beach Access Software To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Sent: Wednesday, March 31, 2004 8:48 AM Subject: Re: [AccessD] OT: A survey from somebody not as well-connected as JC Andy: Don't envy me. They jury's still out. I've got a bit of a buffer so we won't miss any meals, but that can't go on forever. I've had two good products and several bad ones. At least this time I'm starting in an economy that's on the upswing. But I've always been a bootstrap kind of guy - we're doing a mailing in San Diego county this month. Hopefully snag two or three systems. Then use that money to mail again in another county. Build it up slowly. Instead of mortgaging the house. I'm still doing some fee-for-service as well. So that keeps some of the lights on. It's a high wire act for sure. But when it does work, it's a thing of beauty. Rocky > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Andy Lacey > Sent: Tuesday, March 30, 2004 1:18 PM > To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' > Subject: RE: [AccessD] OT: A survey from somebody not as well-connected > as JC > > > I envy Rocky (sort of) but won't be trying to emulate him. Been there, tried > that, and failed. Problem with the product thing is that you have to > metamorphose from developer into marketer, and I couldn't. Not my thing at > all. Plus IME it involves sinking money into advertising, mailing, > brochures, websites nd so on. You have to be prepared to risk big outlay > against no guarantee of return. Done that 2 or 3 times to great cost and no > great return. Won't be doing it again. > > -- Andy Lacey > http://www.minstersystems.co.uk > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of > > Steven W. Erbach > > Sent: 30 March 2004 04:16 > > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > > Subject: Re: [AccessD] OT: A survey from somebody not as > > well-connected as JC > > > > > > William, > > > > >> ...don't take this the wrong way << > > > > I won't. I appreciate your point of view. I have gotten > > caught up in the tools as if owning the right brand of socket > > wrench will guarantee me a living. > > > > But I hear you on the client-centered approach. I've worked > > on lots of things that were outside of my skill-set comfort zone. > > > > I talked with a friend recently about my business and he > > asked if there was anything I specialized in. I told him no; > > my business is producing custom solutions to solve customer > > problems. He recommended a product-centered approach, like > > what Rocky is aiming for. I have a long-term care facility > > marketing and donations program I wrote that might fill the > > bill. We'll see. > > > > >> ...but I'm just me and don't have any intention of ever > > working hard > > >> again << > > > > Not really an option for me as we're having some tough times > > financially. I can dig the varietal nature of your work, > > though. Thanks. > > > > Regards, > > > > Steve Erbach > > Scientific Marketing > > Neenah, WI > > > > "You must be an intellectual. No normal person would say a > > thing like that." - George Orwell > > > > -- > > _______________________________________________ > > AccessD mailing list > > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/a> ccessd > > Website: > > http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > > > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From bchacc at san.rr.com Tue Mar 30 17:42:38 2004 From: bchacc at san.rr.com (Rocky Smolin - Beach Access Software) Date: Tue, 30 Mar 2004 15:42:38 -0800 Subject: [AccessD] OT: A survey from somebody not as well-connected as JC References: <026501c416a9$24181a60$6601a8c0@HAL9002> <001901c416aa$abe96e70$6401a8c0@user> Message-ID: <02cf01c416b0$af86d1c0$6601a8c0@HAL9002> Kath: In the 'old' days when I was flogging this package in DOS, I thought that some of them would be sold by word of mouth, people seeing it, or the reports that got passed around (which all had my company name in the footer). So I always wanted everyone to have the latest version. So I didn't charge for it. It was in my self-interest to have them use the most recent release. And I'm still going to keep to that policy for this new version. If I add a module, like Order Entry, everybody will get it at no cost. With distribution by web, there really is no overhead cost to me to distribute it. And good product sells more product. I promote the product support as a 'free phone in consulting service on any question related to the software OR manufacturing systems' for the first year, and $300 a year after that (about 10% of the purchase price). In the past I had a lot of conversations with people about manufacturing issues - how to structure a bill of materials, how to make up a part numbering scheme, how to solve a particular work order problem, etc - and very few questions about how to actually run the software. This added a LOT of value to the product and didn't really take very much time. The key is to make a product which is so user stupid that anybody who can read and count to 20 can run it. Then you don't get the same question 20 times a day, like 'how do I run a costed inventory report?'. If a user doesn't want to pay the yearly maintenance then they don't get the phone support. I could tell them they don't get the new releases as well but that works against me salewise. Many people didn't pay for the support after the first couple of years because they never called me for anything. The other key, of course, it goes without saying, is to make the product so solid that it doesn't generate bugs and errors. Then you don't get any support calls. BTW - I'm not a marketer or salesy type person, either. But if you have something you believe in it's not really selling. And I really believe in this product (why not, I invented it?). I just present the product and if they like it fine. They buy it. If not, it's like pushing on a string. I always wanted people to feel like they got more than they expected and when you sell hard you overhype, raise expectations, and end up with customers who expect more than you have to give. When people buy E-Z-MRP they feel like they just bought a dollar for fifty cents. That makes selling a lot easier, too. I suppose that's why I'm successful but not rich. :) HTH Rocky Smolin Beach Access Software http://www.e-z-mrp.com ----- Original Message ----- From: "Kath Pelletti" To: "Access Developers discussion and problem solving" Sent: Tuesday, March 30, 2004 2:59 PM Subject: Re: [AccessD] OT: A survey from somebody not as well-connected as JC Rocky - out of interest - what support arrangements / fees are you offering? Kath ----- Original Message ----- From: Rocky Smolin - Beach Access Software To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Sent: Wednesday, March 31, 2004 8:48 AM Subject: Re: [AccessD] OT: A survey from somebody not as well-connected as JC Andy: Don't envy me. They jury's still out. I've got a bit of a buffer so we won't miss any meals, but that can't go on forever. I've had two good products and several bad ones. At least this time I'm starting in an economy that's on the upswing. But I've always been a bootstrap kind of guy - we're doing a mailing in San Diego county this month. Hopefully snag two or three systems. Then use that money to mail again in another county. Build it up slowly. Instead of mortgaging the house. I'm still doing some fee-for-service as well. So that keeps some of the lights on. It's a high wire act for sure. But when it does work, it's a thing of beauty. Rocky > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Andy Lacey > Sent: Tuesday, March 30, 2004 1:18 PM > To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' > Subject: RE: [AccessD] OT: A survey from somebody not as well-connected > as JC > > > I envy Rocky (sort of) but won't be trying to emulate him. Been there, tried > that, and failed. Problem with the product thing is that you have to > metamorphose from developer into marketer, and I couldn't. Not my thing at > all. Plus IME it involves sinking money into advertising, mailing, > brochures, websites nd so on. You have to be prepared to risk big outlay > against no guarantee of return. Done that 2 or 3 times to great cost and no > great return. Won't be doing it again. > > -- Andy Lacey > http://www.minstersystems.co.uk > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of > > Steven W. Erbach > > Sent: 30 March 2004 04:16 > > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > > Subject: Re: [AccessD] OT: A survey from somebody not as > > well-connected as JC > > > > > > William, > > > > >> ...don't take this the wrong way << > > > > I won't. I appreciate your point of view. I have gotten > > caught up in the tools as if owning the right brand of socket > > wrench will guarantee me a living. > > > > But I hear you on the client-centered approach. I've worked > > on lots of things that were outside of my skill-set comfort zone. > > > > I talked with a friend recently about my business and he > > asked if there was anything I specialized in. I told him no; > > my business is producing custom solutions to solve customer > > problems. He recommended a product-centered approach, like > > what Rocky is aiming for. I have a long-term care facility > > marketing and donations program I wrote that might fill the > > bill. We'll see. > > > > >> ...but I'm just me and don't have any intention of ever > > working hard > > >> again << > > > > Not really an option for me as we're having some tough times > > financially. I can dig the varietal nature of your work, > > though. Thanks. > > > > Regards, > > > > Steve Erbach > > Scientific Marketing > > Neenah, WI > > > > "You must be an intellectual. No normal person would say a > > thing like that." - George Orwell > > > > -- > > _______________________________________________ > > AccessD mailing list > > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/a> ccessd > > Website: > > http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > > > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From dwaters at usinternet.com Tue Mar 30 18:35:26 2004 From: dwaters at usinternet.com (Dan Waters) Date: Tue, 30 Mar 2004 18:35:26 -0600 Subject: [AccessD] Slow Forms In-Reply-To: <29539141.1080681589146.JavaMail.root@sniper2.marix.com> Message-ID: <000501c416b8$0fca0d70$de1811d8@DanWaters> Reuben - This worked for me once: 1) Comment out ALL code in the form. Save the form. 2) Exit out of the db. 3) Decompile while opening the db. 4) Uncomment all the code behind the form. 5) Compile the db. Any better? I believe that commenting out all the code, then decompiling the db, removes all compiled code behind the form. When you uncomment the code and compile, now the compiled code is all new. This gives the form a 'fresh start'. I have no basis for this idea, but it did help once with a form that was crashing, and after I did this, things went faster! Best of Luck! Dan -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Reuben Cummings Sent: Tuesday, March 30, 2004 3:15 PM To: AccessD Subject: [AccessD] Slow Forms I need help with a form that opens very slowly. Everything worked very quickly until I compacted and repaired the db. After compacting, this form will open slowly one time and then open quickly all other times. It will continue to open as I would expect it to until it is compacted again. However, if the app is made into an mde then it always opens slowly. The form is based on a query. There is a tab control on it. One tab has about 14 fields from the same recordsource as the main form. The other three tabs all have subforms based on queries. 2 of those queries have fields that call functions to get their value. All the queries and subforms open very quickly. And if I delete the subforms, the main form will always operate quickly. I have imported into new db's. I have completely rebuilt the main form. Any suggestions on where to start troubleshooting this thing? Thanks. Reuben Cummings GFC, LLC phone: 812.523.1017 email: reuben at gfconsultants.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From DWUTKA at marlow.com Tue Mar 30 20:13:23 2004 From: DWUTKA at marlow.com (DWUTKA at marlow.com) Date: Tue, 30 Mar 2004 20:13:23 -0600 Subject: [AccessD] Snapshot Viewer to text Message-ID: <2F8793082E00D4119A1700B0D0216BF802227A38@main2.marlow.com> I have my days. Sorry I wasn't more help with this one. Drew -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of John Skolits Sent: Tuesday, March 30, 2004 3:22 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: [AccessD] Snapshot Viewer to text Drew, Actually that was a pretty good one. Stuart, I actually tried that but there is too much junk in the file besides the text. But it indicates to me that there might be a way to do it since it at least had the text characters in there. -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of DWUTKA at marlow.com Sent: Tuesday, March 30, 2004 3:15 PM To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: RE: [AccessD] Snapshot Viewer to text Open it in Notepad? Just kidding. Sorry, in a wierd mood. Actually, opening it in notepad shows a lot of garbage. And I didn't see anything in Snapshot viewer that is going to work right. Sorry, this post isn't very helpful, is it. Drew -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of JOhn Skolits Sent: Tuesday, March 30, 2004 2:06 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: [AccessD] Snapshot Viewer to text Anyone know if you can take a snapshot viewer file and convert it to text? John Skolits -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Mike & Doris Manning Sent: Tuesday, March 30, 2004 1:03 PM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: [AccessD] Default Printer for Access Report Open that report in design view and then click on "File" and choose "Page Setup". It is possible it get set accidentally when the report was designed. Doris Manning Database Administrator Hargrove Inc. www.hargroveinc.com -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Susan Geller Sent: Tuesday, March 30, 2004 12:28 PM To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: [AccessD] Default Printer for Access Report I have a reporting tool built in Access (2002) that is essentially a wizard where users pick a report, set criteria and then see their output. There are nearly 100 reports in the app. When a user choses to print a report, the default printer that comes up in the print dialog box is the default printer set on their machine, EXCEPT for one of the reports. On that one report only, the default printer that comes up in the dialogue box is a different printer. All users get this different printer. I did not write any code or make any settings to indicate printer choice. What could be happening? How can I get this one report to print to the user's default printer? Note: The only way that users can print a report is with a toolbar PRINT button that I brings up the dialogue box. There is no file menu from the reports and there is no button with a printer icon that sends reports straight to the printer. --Susan Susan B. Geller Office of Information Systems College of Continuing Education University of Minnesota 306 Wesbrook Hall 77 Pleasant Street SE Minneapolis, MN 55455 Phone: 612-626-4785 Fax: 612-625-2568 -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From wdhindman at bellsouth.net Tue Mar 30 20:16:59 2004 From: wdhindman at bellsouth.net (William Hindman) Date: Tue, 30 Mar 2004 21:16:59 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Lookup Fields in Table Design References: Message-ID: <002a01c416c6$3fb3a510$6101a8c0@dejpolsys> ...yeah ...but we're all looking forward to seeing you on the skins team :) William Hindman ipsedixitism: something is true because I myself have said it is true ...the philosophy of Noam Chomsky :) ----- Original Message ----- From: "Charlotte Foust" To: "Access Developers discussion and problem solving" Sent: Tuesday, March 30, 2004 2:39 PM Subject: RE: [AccessD] Lookup Fields in Table Design > But bounders and cads is *much* cleverer and we can maintain our > reputation for esoteric knowledge with those teams. > > Charlotte Foust From wdhindman at bellsouth.net Tue Mar 30 20:27:06 2004 From: wdhindman at bellsouth.net (William Hindman) Date: Tue, 30 Mar 2004 21:27:06 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Slow Forms References: Message-ID: <004301c416c7$a9f698f0$6101a8c0@dejpolsys> ...have you tried not loading the tabbed data until its actually selected ...that should let your main form open quickly based upon the info you submitted. William Hindman ipsedixitism: something is true because I myself have said it is true ...the philosophy of Noam Chomsky :) ----- Original Message ----- From: "Reuben Cummings" To: "AccessD" Sent: Tuesday, March 30, 2004 4:14 PM Subject: [AccessD] Slow Forms > I need help with a form that opens very slowly. > > Everything worked very quickly until I compacted and repaired the db. After > compacting, this form will open slowly one time and then open quickly all > other times. It will continue to open as I would expect it to until it is > compacted again. > > However, if the app is made into an mde then it always opens slowly. > > The form is based on a query. There is a tab control on it. One tab has > about 14 fields from the same recordsource as the main form. The other > three tabs all have subforms based on queries. 2 of those queries have > fields that call functions to get their value. > > All the queries and subforms open very quickly. And if I delete the > subforms, the main form will always operate quickly. > > I have imported into new db's. I have completely rebuilt the main form. > > Any suggestions on where to start troubleshooting this thing? > > Thanks. > > Reuben Cummings > GFC, LLC > phone: 812.523.1017 > email: reuben at gfconsultants.com > > > > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > From greggs at msn.com Tue Mar 30 21:15:39 2004 From: greggs at msn.com (Gregg) Date: Tue, 30 Mar 2004 21:15:39 -0600 Subject: [AccessD] Compacting A2K In-Reply-To: <004301c416c7$a9f698f0$6101a8c0@dejpolsys> Message-ID: I'm really stumped on this one. I have a 2K database that won't compact. It says the temporary database is in use. Every once in while it will work... maybe 1 out of 20 tries. This app is running under NT4 and Citrix. I opened a new database and imported just the tables and got the same error. I have a mixture of SQL and Access linked tables as well as FE tables. I start removing tables until it begins working but when I add the last tables I deleted back in, it still works. It's not consistent. When it begins to work I start getting another occasional error. At the end of the compact process I get an error that says "Cannot find field 'Description'". I do have tables with a field name of description but when I remove them I still get the error. The Help says it is error 3799. I can't find anything on it anywhere. Also, I can move the app to another machine and it will compact fine at least until it looks for the SQL links. We rebuilt Citrix and NT OS which did not help. Gregg Steinbrenner From jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com Tue Mar 30 21:14:40 2004 From: jwcolby at colbyconsulting.com (John W. Colby) Date: Tue, 30 Mar 2004 22:14:40 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Compacting A2K In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Office Service packs applied? Jet SPs applied? Windows SPs applied? John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Gregg Sent: Tuesday, March 30, 2004 10:16 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: [AccessD] Compacting A2K I'm really stumped on this one. I have a 2K database that won't compact. It says the temporary database is in use. Every once in while it will work... maybe 1 out of 20 tries. This app is running under NT4 and Citrix. I opened a new database and imported just the tables and got the same error. I have a mixture of SQL and Access linked tables as well as FE tables. I start removing tables until it begins working but when I add the last tables I deleted back in, it still works. It's not consistent. When it begins to work I start getting another occasional error. At the end of the compact process I get an error that says "Cannot find field 'Description'". I do have tables with a field name of description but when I remove them I still get the error. The Help says it is error 3799. I can't find anything on it anywhere. Also, I can move the app to another machine and it will compact fine at least until it looks for the SQL links. We rebuilt Citrix and NT OS which did not help. Gregg Steinbrenner -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From ebarro at afsweb.com Tue Mar 30 21:13:18 2004 From: ebarro at afsweb.com (Eric Barro) Date: Tue, 30 Mar 2004 19:13:18 -0800 Subject: [AccessD] OT: A survey from somebody not as well-connected as JC In-Reply-To: <20040329101610.2131078867.serbach@new.rr.com> Message-ID: Steve, I have a day job working for a company utilizing my computing skills and I do work on the side not so much to earn big bucks but moreso to increase my exposure to new and different ways to implement technology solutions. 1. I started developing applications using MS Access. I built the app for this company I'm working for and I maintained it for 4 years until it was put to rest last year after we replaced it with a web-based workflow system utilizing classic ASP and SQL server 2000. I still use Access but mostly as a front end to SQL server (to create tables, queries, stored procedures). I use ADPs. 2. Most of my development work is now web-based utilizing classic ASP and SQL server 2000. I have had the chance to learn .NET and also had the chance to develop a full-blown web-based application for our workflow systems. This project utilizes a dozen ASP.NET pages with a framework I built to handle the back end processing. I am currently utilizing .NET for new development projects and will soon be migrating over my classic ASP projects to .NET. 3. I quickly adapted to the .NET framework and I attribute it to my experience with Visual Basic and database management systems development. I also attribute it to the fact that I wasn't scared to throw away what I already had in terms of classic ASP development. .NET leverages a full fledged VB or C# environment and not just scripting technology. My many years of experience in networks and Windows server technologies also helped a lot in understanding how the .NET framework interacts with networks. .NET basically compiles everything in a DLL and executes the DLL. Because of this it is faster and more efficient since the code doesn't have to be interpreted before it is run. In fact I can write a whole .NET application and utilize the compiled DLL and have one line of code on my ASP.NET page referencing the DLL. Classic ASP exposes all the code to anyone who can get to the ASP pages. By compiling the code behind into a DLL a developer can "protect" his/her development work. I am currently developing a .NET tool for developers that will address the need for rapid development of web-based forms. This tool takes care of the backend integration with a database management system. Think in terms of concentrating on the design of your web-based ASP.NET forms and leaving the database integration to this tool. I can't say anymore before it's officially released though. :) --- Eric Barro Senior Systems Analyst Advanced Field Services (208) 772-7060 http://www.afsweb.com -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Steven W. Erbach Sent: Monday, March 29, 2004 8:16 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: [AccessD] OT: A survey from somebody not as well-connected as JC Dear Group, This is for the independent developers only. If you work for a company and you'd like to take the survey, just let me know that you're not an independent developer when you reply. I'm curious about what you independent developers have had to learn to keep up with the changing marketplace. 1) If you've managed to maintain a significant clientele by developing Access applications, what have you done to sharpen your skills to make you more attractive as the developer of choice in a competitive field? That is, have you developed a framework like JC, or have you gone more towards developing front ends for SQL back ends like Arthur? 2) If you've moved away from Access development as your primary source of income, what other platforms have you learned to make a living? Do you now do mostly .NET development, ASP, SQL Server, PHP, what? 3) If you're doing .NET development, what kind of things are you doing? Has it lived up to the hype? Last year about this time I was searching the want ads for positions before I decided to stick with my own business. I was amused by the ads that profiled the "ideal" candidate as one who had deep .NET experience. The stinking product had only officially been on the market for one whole year with another year in beta before that. Sheesh! Have you seen any real live .NET implementations that are worth bragging about...or have you created any? In short, what have you had to do to make yourself useful as an independent developer? I know that William works quite a bit with SBS and LANs. Have any of you developed proficiency with cabling and routers and such to increase your marketability? Do you do any security consulting, say? Do you build custom-order PCs? Do you do LAN management, e-mail server management and setup, web site development? One final thing: Years ago when I started I took advantage of the swing of the pendulum that put PC power in users' hands. That is, the PC was a great analysis tool for mainframe data. Lotus 1-2-3, dBASE III, Paradox, etc., were the tools that enabled users and departments to fiddle with the data without having to wait for the IT department to get around to their little pissant application requests. Now the pendulum has swung the other way. Security concerns and scalability and distributed networks / VPNs and web-based database applications have all made the pendulum swing back towards centralized control...and the IT guys are loving it. Or am I reading it wrong? What do you think? Regards, Steve Erbach Scientific Marketing Neenah, WI 920-969-0504 Security and Virus information: http://www.swerbach.com/security --- Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.593 / Virus Database: 376 - Release Date: 2/20/2004 From accessd at shaw.ca Tue Mar 30 22:14:05 2004 From: accessd at shaw.ca (Jim Lawrence (AccessD)) Date: Tue, 30 Mar 2004 20:14:05 -0800 Subject: [AccessD] OT: A survey from somebody not as well-connected as JC In-Reply-To: <007d01c416a0$eb0617c0$6401a8c0@user> Message-ID: Hi All: Unfortunately, I think the era of writing a good program and subsequently living of its' sales, is past. Too many companies have created applications for every market and will sell the results for just 2 or 3 hundred dollars, just to scrap by. There is no support but the general public has come to expect that. In no small part, Microsoft has contributed to it. In one scenario, within a government department, consisting of 300 plus stations, it took three full-time personnel just to support the site. Now, it takes four full-time contractors to support whole Ministers, consisting of 6500 plus stations. Over 20 times the level of productivity and service, on an OSs that has software, imbedded (free), that would have added together, a few years ago, to an estimated 10,000 dollars and the system sells for $250.00. What happened to all those small flourishing companies, that supplied the markets with custom apps and utilities? Instead of fixing a computer or modifying (hacking) a piece or group of software package into working in concert, it is easier and cheaper to dump the old stuff, buy a few $500 dollar boxes, with XP on them and get the secretaries' son to parl? together a barely functional Access DB. If the worse comes to the worse you can always contract, at ten bucks an hour, some third rate database guy or a first rate foreign programmer. Don't believe me; then check this out, as I get these type of emails all the time: http://www.pavan.org/. This is a representative example. You can create a good programming business but you have to work long and hard and be as equally good salesperson as programmer. If you are willing to make sacrifices, stay in for the long haul and strive towards developing customer loyalty, I think there are still opportunities... but it ain't the eighties or nineties anymore. If you really love making great software, enjoy chatting with your clients (...and for you young guys and gals that does not mean getting to know the client's secretary or the fellow in shipping...) and are not obsessed with money, this is where you should be. Now if you want my opinion...just ask. :-) What is yours? Jim -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Kath Pelletti Sent: Tuesday, March 30, 2004 1:50 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] OT: A survey from somebody not as well-connected as JC So true - I think being a salesperson is either in the blood or not...and I don't seem to have that gene either......on the other hand if you know that what you are selling is *great* then maybe..... The other thing is the cost of stuff online. I recently developed a system for my husband's wholesale travel business - to produce quotations p/passenger and all that stuff - took ages as it is customised. Try selling that online - there are systems there being offered for $US300 - I wouldn't be willing to support anything for that money. (By the way - Drew - put me down as a sayer). Kath ----- Original Message ----- From: Andy Lacey To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Sent: Wednesday, March 31, 2004 5:17 AM Subject: RE: [AccessD] OT: A survey from somebody not as well-connected as JC I envy Rocky (sort of) but won't be trying to emulate him. Been there, tried that, and failed. Problem with the product thing is that you have to metamorphose from developer into marketer, and I couldn't. Not my thing at all. Plus IME it involves sinking money into advertising, mailing, brochures, websites nd so on. You have to be prepared to risk big outlay against no guarantee of return. Done that 2 or 3 times to great cost and no great return. Won't be doing it again. -- Andy Lacey http://www.minstersystems.co.uk > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of > Steven W. Erbach > Sent: 30 March 2004 04:16 > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: Re: [AccessD] OT: A survey from somebody not as > well-connected as JC > > > William, > > >> ...don't take this the wrong way << > > I won't. I appreciate your point of view. I have gotten > caught up in the tools as if owning the right brand of socket > wrench will guarantee me a living. > > But I hear you on the client-centered approach. I've worked > on lots of things that were outside of my skill-set comfort zone. > > I talked with a friend recently about my business and he > asked if there was anything I specialized in. I told him no; > my business is producing custom solutions to solve customer > problems. He recommended a product-centered approach, like > what Rocky is aiming for. I have a long-term care facility > marketing and donations program I wrote that might fill the > bill. We'll see. > > >> ...but I'm just me and don't have any intention of ever > working hard > >> again << > > Not really an option for me as we're having some tough times > financially. I can dig the varietal nature of your work, > though. Thanks. > > Regards, > > Steve Erbach > Scientific Marketing > Neenah, WI > > "You must be an intellectual. No normal person would say a > thing like that." - George Orwell > > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/a> ccessd > Website: > http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From SDSSoftware at optusnet.com.au Tue Mar 30 22:19:43 2004 From: SDSSoftware at optusnet.com.au (Kath Pelletti) Date: Wed, 31 Mar 2004 14:19:43 +1000 Subject: [AccessD] OT: A survey from somebody not as well-connected as JC References: Message-ID: <000b01c416d7$65152200$6401a8c0@user> .......all the time: http://www.pavan.org/. This is a representative example. Unbelievable. Kath ----- Original Message ----- From: Jim Lawrence (AccessD) To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Sent: Wednesday, March 31, 2004 2:14 PM Subject: RE: [AccessD] OT: A survey from somebody not as well-connected as JC Hi All: Unfortunately, I think the era of writing a good program and subsequently living of its' sales, is past. Too many companies have created applications for every market and will sell the results for just 2 or 3 hundred dollars, just to scrap by. There is no support but the general public has come to expect that. In no small part, Microsoft has contributed to it. In one scenario, within a government department, consisting of 300 plus stations, it took three full-time personnel just to support the site. Now, it takes four full-time contractors to support whole Ministers, consisting of 6500 plus stations. Over 20 times the level of productivity and service, on an OSs that has software, imbedded (free), that would have added together, a few years ago, to an estimated 10,000 dollars and the system sells for $250.00. What happened to all those small flourishing companies, that supplied the markets with custom apps and utilities? Instead of fixing a computer or modifying (hacking) a piece or group of software package into working in concert, it is easier and cheaper to dump the old stuff, buy a few $500 dollar boxes, with XP on them and get the secretaries' son to parl? together a barely functional Access DB. If the worse comes to the worse you can always contract, at ten bucks an hour, some third rate database guy or a first rate foreign programmer. Don't believe me; then check this out, as I get these type of emails all the time: http://www.pavan.org/. This is a representative example. You can create a good programming business but you have to work long and hard and be as equally good salesperson as programmer. If you are willing to make sacrifices, stay in for the long haul and strive towards developing customer loyalty, I think there are still opportunities... but it ain't the eighties or nineties anymore. If you really love making great software, enjoy chatting with your clients (...and for you young guys and gals that does not mean getting to know the client's secretary or the fellow in shipping...) and are not obsessed with money, this is where you should be. Now if you want my opinion...just ask. :-) What is yours? Jim -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Kath Pelletti Sent: Tuesday, March 30, 2004 1:50 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] OT: A survey from somebody not as well-connected as JC So true - I think being a salesperson is either in the blood or not...and I don't seem to have that gene either......on the other hand if you know that what you are selling is *great* then maybe..... The other thing is the cost of stuff online. I recently developed a system for my husband's wholesale travel business - to produce quotations p/passenger and all that stuff - took ages as it is customised. Try selling that online - there are systems there being offered for $US300 - I wouldn't be willing to support anything for that money. (By the way - Drew - put me down as a sayer). Kath ----- Original Message ----- From: Andy Lacey To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Sent: Wednesday, March 31, 2004 5:17 AM Subject: RE: [AccessD] OT: A survey from somebody not as well-connected as JC I envy Rocky (sort of) but won't be trying to emulate him. Been there, tried that, and failed. Problem with the product thing is that you have to metamorphose from developer into marketer, and I couldn't. Not my thing at all. Plus IME it involves sinking money into advertising, mailing, brochures, websites nd so on. You have to be prepared to risk big outlay against no guarantee of return. Done that 2 or 3 times to great cost and no great return. Won't be doing it again. -- Andy Lacey http://www.minstersystems.co.uk > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of > Steven W. Erbach > Sent: 30 March 2004 04:16 > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: Re: [AccessD] OT: A survey from somebody not as > well-connected as JC > > > William, > > >> ...don't take this the wrong way << > > I won't. I appreciate your point of view. I have gotten > caught up in the tools as if owning the right brand of socket > wrench will guarantee me a living. > > But I hear you on the client-centered approach. I've worked > on lots of things that were outside of my skill-set comfort zone. > > I talked with a friend recently about my business and he > asked if there was anything I specialized in. I told him no; > my business is producing custom solutions to solve customer > problems. He recommended a product-centered approach, like > what Rocky is aiming for. I have a long-term care facility > marketing and donations program I wrote that might fill the > bill. We'll see. > > >> ...but I'm just me and don't have any intention of ever > working hard > >> again << > > Not really an option for me as we're having some tough times > financially. I can dig the varietal nature of your work, > though. Thanks. > > Regards, > > Steve Erbach > Scientific Marketing > Neenah, WI > > "You must be an intellectual. No normal person would say a > thing like that." - George Orwell > > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/a> ccessd > Website: > http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From SDSSoftware at optusnet.com.au Tue Mar 30 22:23:52 2004 From: SDSSoftware at optusnet.com.au (Kath Pelletti) Date: Wed, 31 Mar 2004 14:23:52 +1000 Subject: [AccessD] OT: A survey from somebody not as well-connected as JC References: <026501c416a9$24181a60$6601a8c0@HAL9002><001901c416aa$abe96e70$6401a8c0@user> <02cf01c416b0$af86d1c0$6601a8c0@HAL9002> Message-ID: <001b01c416d7$f95da4a0$6401a8c0@user> Well I wish you the very best of luck...can you let us know how the sales go? Kath ----- Original Message ----- From: Rocky Smolin - Beach Access Software To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Sent: Wednesday, March 31, 2004 9:42 AM Subject: Re: [AccessD] OT: A survey from somebody not as well-connected as JC Kath: In the 'old' days when I was flogging this package in DOS, I thought that some of them would be sold by word of mouth, people seeing it, or the reports that got passed around (which all had my company name in the footer). So I always wanted everyone to have the latest version. So I didn't charge for it. It was in my self-interest to have them use the most recent release. And I'm still going to keep to that policy for this new version. If I add a module, like Order Entry, everybody will get it at no cost. With distribution by web, there really is no overhead cost to me to distribute it. And good product sells more product. I promote the product support as a 'free phone in consulting service on any question related to the software OR manufacturing systems' for the first year, and $300 a year after that (about 10% of the purchase price). In the past I had a lot of conversations with people about manufacturing issues - how to structure a bill of materials, how to make up a part numbering scheme, how to solve a particular work order problem, etc - and very few questions about how to actually run the software. This added a LOT of value to the product and didn't really take very much time. The key is to make a product which is so user stupid that anybody who can read and count to 20 can run it. Then you don't get the same question 20 times a day, like 'how do I run a costed inventory report?'. If a user doesn't want to pay the yearly maintenance then they don't get the phone support. I could tell them they don't get the new releases as well but that works against me salewise. Many people didn't pay for the support after the first couple of years because they never called me for anything. The other key, of course, it goes without saying, is to make the product so solid that it doesn't generate bugs and errors. Then you don't get any support calls. BTW - I'm not a marketer or salesy type person, either. But if you have something you believe in it's not really selling. And I really believe in this product (why not, I invented it?). I just present the product and if they like it fine. They buy it. If not, it's like pushing on a string. I always wanted people to feel like they got more than they expected and when you sell hard you overhype, raise expectations, and end up with customers who expect more than you have to give. When people buy E-Z-MRP they feel like they just bought a dollar for fifty cents. That makes selling a lot easier, too. I suppose that's why I'm successful but not rich. :) HTH Rocky Smolin Beach Access Software http://www.e-z-mrp.com ----- Original Message ----- From: "Kath Pelletti" To: "Access Developers discussion and problem solving" Sent: Tuesday, March 30, 2004 2:59 PM Subject: Re: [AccessD] OT: A survey from somebody not as well-connected as JC Rocky - out of interest - what support arrangements / fees are you offering? Kath ----- Original Message ----- From: Rocky Smolin - Beach Access Software To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Sent: Wednesday, March 31, 2004 8:48 AM Subject: Re: [AccessD] OT: A survey from somebody not as well-connected as JC Andy: Don't envy me. They jury's still out. I've got a bit of a buffer so we won't miss any meals, but that can't go on forever. I've had two good products and several bad ones. At least this time I'm starting in an economy that's on the upswing. But I've always been a bootstrap kind of guy - we're doing a mailing in San Diego county this month. Hopefully snag two or three systems. Then use that money to mail again in another county. Build it up slowly. Instead of mortgaging the house. I'm still doing some fee-for-service as well. So that keeps some of the lights on. It's a high wire act for sure. But when it does work, it's a thing of beauty. Rocky > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Andy Lacey > Sent: Tuesday, March 30, 2004 1:18 PM > To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' > Subject: RE: [AccessD] OT: A survey from somebody not as well-connected > as JC > > > I envy Rocky (sort of) but won't be trying to emulate him. Been there, tried > that, and failed. Problem with the product thing is that you have to > metamorphose from developer into marketer, and I couldn't. Not my thing at > all. Plus IME it involves sinking money into advertising, mailing, > brochures, websites nd so on. You have to be prepared to risk big outlay > against no guarantee of return. Done that 2 or 3 times to great cost and no > great return. Won't be doing it again. > > -- Andy Lacey > http://www.minstersystems.co.uk > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of > > Steven W. Erbach > > Sent: 30 March 2004 04:16 > > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > > Subject: Re: [AccessD] OT: A survey from somebody not as > > well-connected as JC > > > > > > William, > > > > >> ...don't take this the wrong way << > > > > I won't. I appreciate your point of view. I have gotten > > caught up in the tools as if owning the right brand of socket > > wrench will guarantee me a living. > > > > But I hear you on the client-centered approach. I've worked > > on lots of things that were outside of my skill-set comfort zone. > > > > I talked with a friend recently about my business and he > > asked if there was anything I specialized in. I told him no; > > my business is producing custom solutions to solve customer > > problems. He recommended a product-centered approach, like > > what Rocky is aiming for. I have a long-term care facility > > marketing and donations program I wrote that might fill the > > bill. We'll see. > > > > >> ...but I'm just me and don't have any intention of ever > > working hard > > >> again << > > > > Not really an option for me as we're having some tough times > > financially. I can dig the varietal nature of your work, > > though. Thanks. > > > > Regards, > > > > Steve Erbach > > Scientific Marketing > > Neenah, WI > > > > "You must be an intellectual. No normal person would say a > > thing like that." - George Orwell > > > > -- > > _______________________________________________ > > AccessD mailing list > > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/a> ccessd > > Website: > > http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > > > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From accessd at shaw.ca Tue Mar 30 22:26:17 2004 From: accessd at shaw.ca (Jim Lawrence (AccessD)) Date: Tue, 30 Mar 2004 20:26:17 -0800 Subject: [AccessD] OT: A survey from somebody not as well-connected as JC In-Reply-To: <026501c416a9$24181a60$6601a8c0@HAL9002> Message-ID: Hi Rocky: Your my type of guy...programmer that is. It you didn't love programming you would not doing it...it sure isn't for the money... but who knows? Just one lucky break. Jim -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Rocky Smolin - Beach Access Software Sent: Tuesday, March 30, 2004 2:49 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] OT: A survey from somebody not as well-connected as JC Andy: Don't envy me. They jury's still out. I've got a bit of a buffer so we won't miss any meals, but that can't go on forever. I've had two good products and several bad ones. At least this time I'm starting in an economy that's on the upswing. But I've always been a bootstrap kind of guy - we're doing a mailing in San Diego county this month. Hopefully snag two or three systems. Then use that money to mail again in another county. Build it up slowly. Instead of mortgaging the house. I'm still doing some fee-for-service as well. So that keeps some of the lights on. It's a high wire act for sure. But when it does work, it's a thing of beauty. Rocky > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Andy Lacey > Sent: Tuesday, March 30, 2004 1:18 PM > To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' > Subject: RE: [AccessD] OT: A survey from somebody not as well-connected > as JC > > > I envy Rocky (sort of) but won't be trying to emulate him. Been there, tried > that, and failed. Problem with the product thing is that you have to > metamorphose from developer into marketer, and I couldn't. Not my thing at > all. Plus IME it involves sinking money into advertising, mailing, > brochures, websites nd so on. You have to be prepared to risk big outlay > against no guarantee of return. Done that 2 or 3 times to great cost and no > great return. Won't be doing it again. > > -- Andy Lacey > http://www.minstersystems.co.uk > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of > > Steven W. Erbach > > Sent: 30 March 2004 04:16 > > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > > Subject: Re: [AccessD] OT: A survey from somebody not as > > well-connected as JC > > > > > > William, > > > > >> ...don't take this the wrong way << > > > > I won't. I appreciate your point of view. I have gotten > > caught up in the tools as if owning the right brand of socket > > wrench will guarantee me a living. > > > > But I hear you on the client-centered approach. I've worked > > on lots of things that were outside of my skill-set comfort zone. > > > > I talked with a friend recently about my business and he > > asked if there was anything I specialized in. I told him no; > > my business is producing custom solutions to solve customer > > problems. He recommended a product-centered approach, like > > what Rocky is aiming for. I have a long-term care facility > > marketing and donations program I wrote that might fill the > > bill. We'll see. > > > > >> ...but I'm just me and don't have any intention of ever > > working hard > > >> again << > > > > Not really an option for me as we're having some tough times > > financially. I can dig the varietal nature of your work, > > though. Thanks. > > > > Regards, > > > > Steve Erbach > > Scientific Marketing > > Neenah, WI > > > > "You must be an intellectual. No normal person would say a > > thing like that." - George Orwell > > > > -- > > _______________________________________________ > > AccessD mailing list > > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/a> ccessd > > Website: > > http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > > > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From bchacc at san.rr.com Tue Mar 30 22:37:00 2004 From: bchacc at san.rr.com (Rocky Smolin - Beach Access Software) Date: Tue, 30 Mar 2004 20:37:00 -0800 Subject: [AccessD] OT: A survey from somebody not as well-connected as JC References: <000b01c416d7$65152200$6401a8c0@user> Message-ID: <036101c416d9$cf1cec30$6601a8c0@HAL9002> Obstacles are what you see when you take your eye off the goal. I NEVER look at the competition. Rocky ----- Original Message ----- From: "Kath Pelletti" To: "Access Developers discussion and problem solving" Sent: Tuesday, March 30, 2004 8:19 PM Subject: Re: [AccessD] OT: A survey from somebody not as well-connected as JC .......all the time: http://www.pavan.org/. This is a representative example. Unbelievable. Kath ----- Original Message ----- From: Jim Lawrence (AccessD) To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Sent: Wednesday, March 31, 2004 2:14 PM Subject: RE: [AccessD] OT: A survey from somebody not as well-connected as JC Hi All: Unfortunately, I think the era of writing a good program and subsequently living of its' sales, is past. Too many companies have created applications for every market and will sell the results for just 2 or 3 hundred dollars, just to scrap by. There is no support but the general public has come to expect that. In no small part, Microsoft has contributed to it. In one scenario, within a government department, consisting of 300 plus stations, it took three full-time personnel just to support the site. Now, it takes four full-time contractors to support whole Ministers, consisting of 6500 plus stations. Over 20 times the level of productivity and service, on an OSs that has software, imbedded (free), that would have added together, a few years ago, to an estimated 10,000 dollars and the system sells for $250.00. What happened to all those small flourishing companies, that supplied the markets with custom apps and utilities? Instead of fixing a computer or modifying (hacking) a piece or group of software package into working in concert, it is easier and cheaper to dump the old stuff, buy a few $500 dollar boxes, with XP on them and get the secretaries' son to parl? together a barely functional Access DB. If the worse comes to the worse you can always contract, at ten bucks an hour, some third rate database guy or a first rate foreign programmer. Don't believe me; then check this out, as I get these type of emails all the time: http://www.pavan.org/. This is a representative example. You can create a good programming business but you have to work long and hard and be as equally good salesperson as programmer. If you are willing to make sacrifices, stay in for the long haul and strive towards developing customer loyalty, I think there are still opportunities... but it ain't the eighties or nineties anymore. If you really love making great software, enjoy chatting with your clients (...and for you young guys and gals that does not mean getting to know the client's secretary or the fellow in shipping...) and are not obsessed with money, this is where you should be. Now if you want my opinion...just ask. :-) What is yours? Jim -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Kath Pelletti Sent: Tuesday, March 30, 2004 1:50 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] OT: A survey from somebody not as well-connected as JC So true - I think being a salesperson is either in the blood or not...and I don't seem to have that gene either......on the other hand if you know that what you are selling is *great* then maybe..... The other thing is the cost of stuff online. I recently developed a system for my husband's wholesale travel business - to produce quotations p/passenger and all that stuff - took ages as it is customised. Try selling that online - there are systems there being offered for $US300 - I wouldn't be willing to support anything for that money. (By the way - Drew - put me down as a sayer). Kath ----- Original Message ----- From: Andy Lacey To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Sent: Wednesday, March 31, 2004 5:17 AM Subject: RE: [AccessD] OT: A survey from somebody not as well-connected as JC I envy Rocky (sort of) but won't be trying to emulate him. Been there, tried that, and failed. Problem with the product thing is that you have to metamorphose from developer into marketer, and I couldn't. Not my thing at all. Plus IME it involves sinking money into advertising, mailing, brochures, websites nd so on. You have to be prepared to risk big outlay against no guarantee of return. Done that 2 or 3 times to great cost and no great return. Won't be doing it again. -- Andy Lacey http://www.minstersystems.co.uk > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of > Steven W. Erbach > Sent: 30 March 2004 04:16 > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: Re: [AccessD] OT: A survey from somebody not as > well-connected as JC > > > William, > > >> ...don't take this the wrong way << > > I won't. I appreciate your point of view. I have gotten > caught up in the tools as if owning the right brand of socket > wrench will guarantee me a living. > > But I hear you on the client-centered approach. I've worked > on lots of things that were outside of my skill-set comfort zone. > > I talked with a friend recently about my business and he > asked if there was anything I specialized in. I told him no; > my business is producing custom solutions to solve customer > problems. He recommended a product-centered approach, like > what Rocky is aiming for. I have a long-term care facility > marketing and donations program I wrote that might fill the > bill. We'll see. > > >> ...but I'm just me and don't have any intention of ever > working hard > >> again << > > Not really an option for me as we're having some tough times > financially. I can dig the varietal nature of your work, > though. Thanks. > > Regards, > > Steve Erbach > Scientific Marketing > Neenah, WI > > "You must be an intellectual. No normal person would say a > thing like that." - George Orwell > > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/a> ccessd > Website: > http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From bchacc at san.rr.com Tue Mar 30 22:39:13 2004 From: bchacc at san.rr.com (Rocky Smolin - Beach Access Software) Date: Tue, 30 Mar 2004 20:39:13 -0800 Subject: [AccessD] OT: A survey from somebody not as well-connected as JC References: <026501c416a9$24181a60$6601a8c0@HAL9002> <001901c416aa$abe96e70$6401a8c0@user> <02cf01c416b0$af86d1c0$6601a8c0@HAL9002> <001b01c416d7$f95da4a0$6401a8c0@user> Message-ID: <036701c416da$1e2c5540$6601a8c0@HAL9002> Sure. I estimate it will take to the end of the year before I see any real results. I've got another product cooking as well - analyzes sleep disorders. Been working on it with an expert in the field for 4-5 years (not continuously, of course). Might be able to launch it this year. Do you want to be a beta tester? Rocky ----- Original Message ----- From: "Kath Pelletti" To: "Access Developers discussion and problem solving" Sent: Tuesday, March 30, 2004 8:23 PM Subject: Re: [AccessD] OT: A survey from somebody not as well-connected as JC Well I wish you the very best of luck...can you let us know how the sales go? Kath ----- Original Message ----- From: Rocky Smolin - Beach Access Software To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Sent: Wednesday, March 31, 2004 9:42 AM Subject: Re: [AccessD] OT: A survey from somebody not as well-connected as JC Kath: In the 'old' days when I was flogging this package in DOS, I thought that some of them would be sold by word of mouth, people seeing it, or the reports that got passed around (which all had my company name in the footer). So I always wanted everyone to have the latest version. So I didn't charge for it. It was in my self-interest to have them use the most recent release. And I'm still going to keep to that policy for this new version. If I add a module, like Order Entry, everybody will get it at no cost. With distribution by web, there really is no overhead cost to me to distribute it. And good product sells more product. I promote the product support as a 'free phone in consulting service on any question related to the software OR manufacturing systems' for the first year, and $300 a year after that (about 10% of the purchase price). In the past I had a lot of conversations with people about manufacturing issues - how to structure a bill of materials, how to make up a part numbering scheme, how to solve a particular work order problem, etc - and very few questions about how to actually run the software. This added a LOT of value to the product and didn't really take very much time. The key is to make a product which is so user stupid that anybody who can read and count to 20 can run it. Then you don't get the same question 20 times a day, like 'how do I run a costed inventory report?'. If a user doesn't want to pay the yearly maintenance then they don't get the phone support. I could tell them they don't get the new releases as well but that works against me salewise. Many people didn't pay for the support after the first couple of years because they never called me for anything. The other key, of course, it goes without saying, is to make the product so solid that it doesn't generate bugs and errors. Then you don't get any support calls. BTW - I'm not a marketer or salesy type person, either. But if you have something you believe in it's not really selling. And I really believe in this product (why not, I invented it?). I just present the product and if they like it fine. They buy it. If not, it's like pushing on a string. I always wanted people to feel like they got more than they expected and when you sell hard you overhype, raise expectations, and end up with customers who expect more than you have to give. When people buy E-Z-MRP they feel like they just bought a dollar for fifty cents. That makes selling a lot easier, too. I suppose that's why I'm successful but not rich. :) HTH Rocky Smolin Beach Access Software http://www.e-z-mrp.com ----- Original Message ----- From: "Kath Pelletti" To: "Access Developers discussion and problem solving" Sent: Tuesday, March 30, 2004 2:59 PM Subject: Re: [AccessD] OT: A survey from somebody not as well-connected as JC Rocky - out of interest - what support arrangements / fees are you offering? Kath ----- Original Message ----- From: Rocky Smolin - Beach Access Software To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Sent: Wednesday, March 31, 2004 8:48 AM Subject: Re: [AccessD] OT: A survey from somebody not as well-connected as JC Andy: Don't envy me. They jury's still out. I've got a bit of a buffer so we won't miss any meals, but that can't go on forever. I've had two good products and several bad ones. At least this time I'm starting in an economy that's on the upswing. But I've always been a bootstrap kind of guy - we're doing a mailing in San Diego county this month. Hopefully snag two or three systems. Then use that money to mail again in another county. Build it up slowly. Instead of mortgaging the house. I'm still doing some fee-for-service as well. So that keeps some of the lights on. It's a high wire act for sure. But when it does work, it's a thing of beauty. Rocky > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Andy Lacey > Sent: Tuesday, March 30, 2004 1:18 PM > To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' > Subject: RE: [AccessD] OT: A survey from somebody not as well-connected > as JC > > > I envy Rocky (sort of) but won't be trying to emulate him. Been there, tried > that, and failed. Problem with the product thing is that you have to > metamorphose from developer into marketer, and I couldn't. Not my thing at > all. Plus IME it involves sinking money into advertising, mailing, > brochures, websites nd so on. You have to be prepared to risk big outlay > against no guarantee of return. Done that 2 or 3 times to great cost and no > great return. Won't be doing it again. > > -- Andy Lacey > http://www.minstersystems.co.uk > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of > > Steven W. Erbach > > Sent: 30 March 2004 04:16 > > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > > Subject: Re: [AccessD] OT: A survey from somebody not as > > well-connected as JC > > > > > > William, > > > > >> ...don't take this the wrong way << > > > > I won't. I appreciate your point of view. I have gotten > > caught up in the tools as if owning the right brand of socket > > wrench will guarantee me a living. > > > > But I hear you on the client-centered approach. I've worked > > on lots of things that were outside of my skill-set comfort zone. > > > > I talked with a friend recently about my business and he > > asked if there was anything I specialized in. I told him no; > > my business is producing custom solutions to solve customer > > problems. He recommended a product-centered approach, like > > what Rocky is aiming for. I have a long-term care facility > > marketing and donations program I wrote that might fill the > > bill. We'll see. > > > > >> ...but I'm just me and don't have any intention of ever > > working hard > > >> again << > > > > Not really an option for me as we're having some tough times > > financially. I can dig the varietal nature of your work, > > though. Thanks. > > > > Regards, > > > > Steve Erbach > > Scientific Marketing > > Neenah, WI > > > > "You must be an intellectual. No normal person would say a > > thing like that." - George Orwell > > > > -- > > _______________________________________________ > > AccessD mailing list > > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/a> ccessd > > Website: > > http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > > > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From SDSSoftware at optusnet.com.au Tue Mar 30 22:46:14 2004 From: SDSSoftware at optusnet.com.au (Kath Pelletti) Date: Wed, 31 Mar 2004 14:46:14 +1000 Subject: [AccessD] OT: Independent developers discussion References: <026501c416a9$24181a60$6601a8c0@HAL9002><001901c416aa$abe96e70$6401a8c0@user><02cf01c416b0$af86d1c0$6601a8c0@HAL9002><001b01c416d7$f95da4a0$6401a8c0@user> <036701c416da$1e2c5540$6601a8c0@HAL9002> Message-ID: <003301c416db$18f62550$6401a8c0@user> If you let me know off list what you need I would love to help if I can. ----- Original Message ----- From: Rocky Smolin - Beach Access Software To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Sent: Wednesday, March 31, 2004 2:39 PM Subject: Re: [AccessD] OT: A survey from somebody not as well-connected as JC Sure. I estimate it will take to the end of the year before I see any real results. I've got another product cooking as well - analyzes sleep disorders. Been working on it with an expert in the field for 4-5 years (not continuously, of course). Might be able to launch it this year. Do you want to be a beta tester? Rocky ----- Original Message ----- From: "Kath Pelletti" To: "Access Developers discussion and problem solving" Sent: Tuesday, March 30, 2004 8:23 PM Subject: Re: [AccessD] OT: A survey from somebody not as well-connected as JC Well I wish you the very best of luck...can you let us know how the sales go? Kath ----- Original Message ----- From: Rocky Smolin - Beach Access Software To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Sent: Wednesday, March 31, 2004 9:42 AM Subject: Re: [AccessD] OT: A survey from somebody not as well-connected as JC Kath: In the 'old' days when I was flogging this package in DOS, I thought that some of them would be sold by word of mouth, people seeing it, or the reports that got passed around (which all had my company name in the footer). So I always wanted everyone to have the latest version. So I didn't charge for it. It was in my self-interest to have them use the most recent release. And I'm still going to keep to that policy for this new version. If I add a module, like Order Entry, everybody will get it at no cost. With distribution by web, there really is no overhead cost to me to distribute it. And good product sells more product. I promote the product support as a 'free phone in consulting service on any question related to the software OR manufacturing systems' for the first year, and $300 a year after that (about 10% of the purchase price). In the past I had a lot of conversations with people about manufacturing issues - how to structure a bill of materials, how to make up a part numbering scheme, how to solve a particular work order problem, etc - and very few questions about how to actually run the software. This added a LOT of value to the product and didn't really take very much time. The key is to make a product which is so user stupid that anybody who can read and count to 20 can run it. Then you don't get the same question 20 times a day, like 'how do I run a costed inventory report?'. If a user doesn't want to pay the yearly maintenance then they don't get the phone support. I could tell them they don't get the new releases as well but that works against me salewise. Many people didn't pay for the support after the first couple of years because they never called me for anything. The other key, of course, it goes without saying, is to make the product so solid that it doesn't generate bugs and errors. Then you don't get any support calls. BTW - I'm not a marketer or salesy type person, either. But if you have something you believe in it's not really selling. And I really believe in this product (why not, I invented it?). I just present the product and if they like it fine. They buy it. If not, it's like pushing on a string. I always wanted people to feel like they got more than they expected and when you sell hard you overhype, raise expectations, and end up with customers who expect more than you have to give. When people buy E-Z-MRP they feel like they just bought a dollar for fifty cents. That makes selling a lot easier, too. I suppose that's why I'm successful but not rich. :) HTH Rocky Smolin Beach Access Software http://www.e-z-mrp.com ----- Original Message ----- From: "Kath Pelletti" To: "Access Developers discussion and problem solving" Sent: Tuesday, March 30, 2004 2:59 PM Subject: Re: [AccessD] OT: A survey from somebody not as well-connected as JC Rocky - out of interest - what support arrangements / fees are you offering? Kath ----- Original Message ----- From: Rocky Smolin - Beach Access Software To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Sent: Wednesday, March 31, 2004 8:48 AM Subject: Re: [AccessD] OT: A survey from somebody not as well-connected as JC Andy: Don't envy me. They jury's still out. I've got a bit of a buffer so we won't miss any meals, but that can't go on forever. I've had two good products and several bad ones. At least this time I'm starting in an economy that's on the upswing. But I've always been a bootstrap kind of guy - we're doing a mailing in San Diego county this month. Hopefully snag two or three systems. Then use that money to mail again in another county. Build it up slowly. Instead of mortgaging the house. I'm still doing some fee-for-service as well. So that keeps some of the lights on. It's a high wire act for sure. But when it does work, it's a thing of beauty. Rocky > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Andy Lacey > Sent: Tuesday, March 30, 2004 1:18 PM > To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' > Subject: RE: [AccessD] OT: A survey from somebody not as well-connected > as JC > > > I envy Rocky (sort of) but won't be trying to emulate him. Been there, tried > that, and failed. Problem with the product thing is that you have to > metamorphose from developer into marketer, and I couldn't. Not my thing at > all. Plus IME it involves sinking money into advertising, mailing, > brochures, websites nd so on. You have to be prepared to risk big outlay > against no guarantee of return. Done that 2 or 3 times to great cost and no > great return. Won't be doing it again. > > -- Andy Lacey > http://www.minstersystems.co.uk > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of > > Steven W. Erbach > > Sent: 30 March 2004 04:16 > > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > > Subject: Re: [AccessD] OT: A survey from somebody not as > > well-connected as JC > > > > > > William, > > > > >> ...don't take this the wrong way << > > > > I won't. I appreciate your point of view. I have gotten > > caught up in the tools as if owning the right brand of socket > > wrench will guarantee me a living. > > > > But I hear you on the client-centered approach. I've worked > > on lots of things that were outside of my skill-set comfort zone. > > > > I talked with a friend recently about my business and he > > asked if there was anything I specialized in. I told him no; > > my business is producing custom solutions to solve customer > > problems. He recommended a product-centered approach, like > > what Rocky is aiming for. I have a long-term care facility > > marketing and donations program I wrote that might fill the > > bill. We'll see. > > > > >> ...but I'm just me and don't have any intention of ever > > working hard > > >> again << > > > > Not really an option for me as we're having some tough times > > financially. I can dig the varietal nature of your work, > > though. Thanks. > > > > Regards, > > > > Steve Erbach > > Scientific Marketing > > Neenah, WI > > > > "You must be an intellectual. No normal person would say a > > thing like that." - George Orwell > > > > -- > > _______________________________________________ > > AccessD mailing list > > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/a> ccessd > > Website: > > http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > > > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From SDSSoftware at optusnet.com.au Tue Mar 30 22:46:23 2004 From: SDSSoftware at optusnet.com.au (Kath Pelletti) Date: Wed, 31 Mar 2004 14:46:23 +1000 Subject: [AccessD] OT: A survey from somebody not as well-connected as JC References: <000b01c416d7$65152200$6401a8c0@user> <036101c416d9$cf1cec30$6601a8c0@HAL9002> Message-ID: <003701c416db$1e6f5c40$6401a8c0@user> Look - it's not really even competition, in my view. Recently when I was tendering out for some work to be subcontracted in Lotus Notes, I was inundated with offers from India even though I specified that I wanted someone local. Being able to sit at the same table and establish some sort of a relationship with the client is crucial. *Virtual service* is too ethereal. But if you are selling overseas maybe this is an issue. Kath ----- Original Message ----- From: Rocky Smolin - Beach Access Software To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Sent: Wednesday, March 31, 2004 2:37 PM Subject: Re: [AccessD] OT: A survey from somebody not as well-connected as JC Obstacles are what you see when you take your eye off the goal. I NEVER look at the competition. Rocky ----- Original Message ----- From: "Kath Pelletti" To: "Access Developers discussion and problem solving" Sent: Tuesday, March 30, 2004 8:19 PM Subject: Re: [AccessD] OT: A survey from somebody not as well-connected as JC .......all the time: http://www.pavan.org/. This is a representative example. Unbelievable. Kath ----- Original Message ----- From: Jim Lawrence (AccessD) To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Sent: Wednesday, March 31, 2004 2:14 PM Subject: RE: [AccessD] OT: A survey from somebody not as well-connected as JC Hi All: Unfortunately, I think the era of writing a good program and subsequently living of its' sales, is past. Too many companies have created applications for every market and will sell the results for just 2 or 3 hundred dollars, just to scrap by. There is no support but the general public has come to expect that. In no small part, Microsoft has contributed to it. In one scenario, within a government department, consisting of 300 plus stations, it took three full-time personnel just to support the site. Now, it takes four full-time contractors to support whole Ministers, consisting of 6500 plus stations. Over 20 times the level of productivity and service, on an OSs that has software, imbedded (free), that would have added together, a few years ago, to an estimated 10,000 dollars and the system sells for $250.00. What happened to all those small flourishing companies, that supplied the markets with custom apps and utilities? Instead of fixing a computer or modifying (hacking) a piece or group of software package into working in concert, it is easier and cheaper to dump the old stuff, buy a few $500 dollar boxes, with XP on them and get the secretaries' son to parl? together a barely functional Access DB. If the worse comes to the worse you can always contract, at ten bucks an hour, some third rate database guy or a first rate foreign programmer. Don't believe me; then check this out, as I get these type of emails all the time: http://www.pavan.org/. This is a representative example. You can create a good programming business but you have to work long and hard and be as equally good salesperson as programmer. If you are willing to make sacrifices, stay in for the long haul and strive towards developing customer loyalty, I think there are still opportunities... but it ain't the eighties or nineties anymore. If you really love making great software, enjoy chatting with your clients (...and for you young guys and gals that does not mean getting to know the client's secretary or the fellow in shipping...) and are not obsessed with money, this is where you should be. Now if you want my opinion...just ask. :-) What is yours? Jim -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Kath Pelletti Sent: Tuesday, March 30, 2004 1:50 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] OT: A survey from somebody not as well-connected as JC So true - I think being a salesperson is either in the blood or not...and I don't seem to have that gene either......on the other hand if you know that what you are selling is *great* then maybe..... The other thing is the cost of stuff online. I recently developed a system for my husband's wholesale travel business - to produce quotations p/passenger and all that stuff - took ages as it is customised. Try selling that online - there are systems there being offered for $US300 - I wouldn't be willing to support anything for that money. (By the way - Drew - put me down as a sayer). Kath ----- Original Message ----- From: Andy Lacey To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Sent: Wednesday, March 31, 2004 5:17 AM Subject: RE: [AccessD] OT: A survey from somebody not as well-connected as JC I envy Rocky (sort of) but won't be trying to emulate him. Been there, tried that, and failed. Problem with the product thing is that you have to metamorphose from developer into marketer, and I couldn't. Not my thing at all. Plus IME it involves sinking money into advertising, mailing, brochures, websites nd so on. You have to be prepared to risk big outlay against no guarantee of return. Done that 2 or 3 times to great cost and no great return. Won't be doing it again. -- Andy Lacey http://www.minstersystems.co.uk > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of > Steven W. Erbach > Sent: 30 March 2004 04:16 > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: Re: [AccessD] OT: A survey from somebody not as > well-connected as JC > > > William, > > >> ...don't take this the wrong way << > > I won't. I appreciate your point of view. I have gotten > caught up in the tools as if owning the right brand of socket > wrench will guarantee me a living. > > But I hear you on the client-centered approach. I've worked > on lots of things that were outside of my skill-set comfort zone. > > I talked with a friend recently about my business and he > asked if there was anything I specialized in. I told him no; > my business is producing custom solutions to solve customer > problems. He recommended a product-centered approach, like > what Rocky is aiming for. I have a long-term care facility > marketing and donations program I wrote that might fill the > bill. We'll see. > > >> ...but I'm just me and don't have any intention of ever > working hard > >> again << > > Not really an option for me as we're having some tough times > financially. I can dig the varietal nature of your work, > though. Thanks. > > Regards, > > Steve Erbach > Scientific Marketing > Neenah, WI > > "You must be an intellectual. No normal person would say a > thing like that." - George Orwell > > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/a> ccessd > Website: > http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From john at winhaven.net Tue Mar 30 22:55:43 2004 From: john at winhaven.net (John Bartow) Date: Tue, 30 Mar 2004 22:55:43 -0600 Subject: [AccessD] OT: A survey from somebody not as well-connected as JC In-Reply-To: <036701c416da$1e2c5540$6601a8c0@HAL9002> Message-ID: Good thing my wife doesn't read this or she'd order a copy to analyze me right now :o) -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Rocky Smolin - Beach Access Software Sent: Tuesday, March 30, 2004 10:39 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] OT: A survey from somebody not as well-connected as JC Sure. I estimate it will take to the end of the year before I see any real results. I've got another product cooking as well - analyzes sleep disorders. Been working on it with an expert in the field for 4-5 years (not continuously, of course). Might be able to launch it this year. Do you want to be a beta tester? Rocky ----- Original Message ----- From: "Kath Pelletti" To: "Access Developers discussion and problem solving" Sent: Tuesday, March 30, 2004 8:23 PM Subject: Re: [AccessD] OT: A survey from somebody not as well-connected as JC Well I wish you the very best of luck...can you let us know how the sales go? Kath ----- Original Message ----- From: Rocky Smolin - Beach Access Software To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Sent: Wednesday, March 31, 2004 9:42 AM Subject: Re: [AccessD] OT: A survey from somebody not as well-connected as JC Kath: In the 'old' days when I was flogging this package in DOS, I thought that some of them would be sold by word of mouth, people seeing it, or the reports that got passed around (which all had my company name in the footer). So I always wanted everyone to have the latest version. So I didn't charge for it. It was in my self-interest to have them use the most recent release. And I'm still going to keep to that policy for this new version. If I add a module, like Order Entry, everybody will get it at no cost. With distribution by web, there really is no overhead cost to me to distribute it. And good product sells more product. I promote the product support as a 'free phone in consulting service on any question related to the software OR manufacturing systems' for the first year, and $300 a year after that (about 10% of the purchase price). In the past I had a lot of conversations with people about manufacturing issues - how to structure a bill of materials, how to make up a part numbering scheme, how to solve a particular work order problem, etc - and very few questions about how to actually run the software. This added a LOT of value to the product and didn't really take very much time. The key is to make a product which is so user stupid that anybody who can read and count to 20 can run it. Then you don't get the same question 20 times a day, like 'how do I run a costed inventory report?'. If a user doesn't want to pay the yearly maintenance then they don't get the phone support. I could tell them they don't get the new releases as well but that works against me salewise. Many people didn't pay for the support after the first couple of years because they never called me for anything. The other key, of course, it goes without saying, is to make the product so solid that it doesn't generate bugs and errors. Then you don't get any support calls. BTW - I'm not a marketer or salesy type person, either. But if you have something you believe in it's not really selling. And I really believe in this product (why not, I invented it?). I just present the product and if they like it fine. They buy it. If not, it's like pushing on a string. I always wanted people to feel like they got more than they expected and when you sell hard you overhype, raise expectations, and end up with customers who expect more than you have to give. When people buy E-Z-MRP they feel like they just bought a dollar for fifty cents. That makes selling a lot easier, too. I suppose that's why I'm successful but not rich. :) HTH Rocky Smolin Beach Access Software http://www.e-z-mrp.com ----- Original Message ----- From: "Kath Pelletti" To: "Access Developers discussion and problem solving" Sent: Tuesday, March 30, 2004 2:59 PM Subject: Re: [AccessD] OT: A survey from somebody not as well-connected as JC Rocky - out of interest - what support arrangements / fees are you offering? Kath ----- Original Message ----- From: Rocky Smolin - Beach Access Software To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Sent: Wednesday, March 31, 2004 8:48 AM Subject: Re: [AccessD] OT: A survey from somebody not as well-connected as JC Andy: Don't envy me. They jury's still out. I've got a bit of a buffer so we won't miss any meals, but that can't go on forever. I've had two good products and several bad ones. At least this time I'm starting in an economy that's on the upswing. But I've always been a bootstrap kind of guy - we're doing a mailing in San Diego county this month. Hopefully snag two or three systems. Then use that money to mail again in another county. Build it up slowly. Instead of mortgaging the house. I'm still doing some fee-for-service as well. So that keeps some of the lights on. It's a high wire act for sure. But when it does work, it's a thing of beauty. Rocky > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Andy Lacey > Sent: Tuesday, March 30, 2004 1:18 PM > To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' > Subject: RE: [AccessD] OT: A survey from somebody not as well-connected > as JC > > > I envy Rocky (sort of) but won't be trying to emulate him. Been there, tried > that, and failed. Problem with the product thing is that you have to > metamorphose from developer into marketer, and I couldn't. Not my thing at > all. Plus IME it involves sinking money into advertising, mailing, > brochures, websites nd so on. You have to be prepared to risk big outlay > against no guarantee of return. Done that 2 or 3 times to great cost and no > great return. Won't be doing it again. > > -- Andy Lacey > http://www.minstersystems.co.uk > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of > > Steven W. Erbach > > Sent: 30 March 2004 04:16 > > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > > Subject: Re: [AccessD] OT: A survey from somebody not as > > well-connected as JC > > > > > > William, > > > > >> ...don't take this the wrong way << > > > > I won't. I appreciate your point of view. I have gotten > > caught up in the tools as if owning the right brand of socket > > wrench will guarantee me a living. > > > > But I hear you on the client-centered approach. I've worked > > on lots of things that were outside of my skill-set comfort zone. > > > > I talked with a friend recently about my business and he > > asked if there was anything I specialized in. I told him no; > > my business is producing custom solutions to solve customer > > problems. He recommended a product-centered approach, like > > what Rocky is aiming for. I have a long-term care facility > > marketing and donations program I wrote that might fill the > > bill. We'll see. > > > > >> ...but I'm just me and don't have any intention of ever > > working hard > > >> again << > > > > Not really an option for me as we're having some tough times > > financially. I can dig the varietal nature of your work, > > though. Thanks. > > > > Regards, > > > > Steve Erbach > > Scientific Marketing > > Neenah, WI > > > > "You must be an intellectual. No normal person would say a > > thing like that." - George Orwell > > > > -- > > _______________________________________________ > > AccessD mailing list > > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/a> ccessd > > Website: > > http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > > > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From SDSSoftware at optusnet.com.au Tue Mar 30 23:01:46 2004 From: SDSSoftware at optusnet.com.au (Kath Pelletti) Date: Wed, 31 Mar 2004 15:01:46 +1000 Subject: [AccessD] OT: Independant developer discussion References: <026501c416a9$24181a60$6601a8c0@HAL9002><001901c416aa$abe96e70$6401a8c0@user><02cf01c416b0$af86d1c0$6601a8c0@HAL9002><001b01c416d7$f95da4a0$6401a8c0@user> <036701c416da$1e2c5540$6601a8c0@HAL9002> Message-ID: <005f01c416dd$44770210$6401a8c0@user> ......and you could always ask Pavan about his rate for testing....! ----- Original Message ----- From: Rocky Smolin - Beach Access Software To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Sent: Wednesday, March 31, 2004 2:39 PM Subject: Re: [AccessD] OT: A survey from somebody not as well-connected as JC Sure. I estimate it will take to the end of the year before I see any real results. I've got another product cooking as well - analyzes sleep disorders. Been working on it with an expert in the field for 4-5 years (not continuously, of course). Might be able to launch it this year. Do you want to be a beta tester? Rocky ----- Original Message ----- From: "Kath Pelletti" To: "Access Developers discussion and problem solving" Sent: Tuesday, March 30, 2004 8:23 PM Subject: Re: [AccessD] OT: A survey from somebody not as well-connected as JC Well I wish you the very best of luck...can you let us know how the sales go? Kath ----- Original Message ----- From: Rocky Smolin - Beach Access Software To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Sent: Wednesday, March 31, 2004 9:42 AM Subject: Re: [AccessD] OT: A survey from somebody not as well-connected as JC Kath: In the 'old' days when I was flogging this package in DOS, I thought that some of them would be sold by word of mouth, people seeing it, or the reports that got passed around (which all had my company name in the footer). So I always wanted everyone to have the latest version. So I didn't charge for it. It was in my self-interest to have them use the most recent release. And I'm still going to keep to that policy for this new version. If I add a module, like Order Entry, everybody will get it at no cost. With distribution by web, there really is no overhead cost to me to distribute it. And good product sells more product. I promote the product support as a 'free phone in consulting service on any question related to the software OR manufacturing systems' for the first year, and $300 a year after that (about 10% of the purchase price). In the past I had a lot of conversations with people about manufacturing issues - how to structure a bill of materials, how to make up a part numbering scheme, how to solve a particular work order problem, etc - and very few questions about how to actually run the software. This added a LOT of value to the product and didn't really take very much time. The key is to make a product which is so user stupid that anybody who can read and count to 20 can run it. Then you don't get the same question 20 times a day, like 'how do I run a costed inventory report?'. If a user doesn't want to pay the yearly maintenance then they don't get the phone support. I could tell them they don't get the new releases as well but that works against me salewise. Many people didn't pay for the support after the first couple of years because they never called me for anything. The other key, of course, it goes without saying, is to make the product so solid that it doesn't generate bugs and errors. Then you don't get any support calls. BTW - I'm not a marketer or salesy type person, either. But if you have something you believe in it's not really selling. And I really believe in this product (why not, I invented it?). I just present the product and if they like it fine. They buy it. If not, it's like pushing on a string. I always wanted people to feel like they got more than they expected and when you sell hard you overhype, raise expectations, and end up with customers who expect more than you have to give. When people buy E-Z-MRP they feel like they just bought a dollar for fifty cents. That makes selling a lot easier, too. I suppose that's why I'm successful but not rich. :) HTH Rocky Smolin Beach Access Software http://www.e-z-mrp.com ----- Original Message ----- From: "Kath Pelletti" To: "Access Developers discussion and problem solving" Sent: Tuesday, March 30, 2004 2:59 PM Subject: Re: [AccessD] OT: A survey from somebody not as well-connected as JC Rocky - out of interest - what support arrangements / fees are you offering? Kath ----- Original Message ----- From: Rocky Smolin - Beach Access Software To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Sent: Wednesday, March 31, 2004 8:48 AM Subject: Re: [AccessD] OT: A survey from somebody not as well-connected as JC Andy: Don't envy me. They jury's still out. I've got a bit of a buffer so we won't miss any meals, but that can't go on forever. I've had two good products and several bad ones. At least this time I'm starting in an economy that's on the upswing. But I've always been a bootstrap kind of guy - we're doing a mailing in San Diego county this month. Hopefully snag two or three systems. Then use that money to mail again in another county. Build it up slowly. Instead of mortgaging the house. I'm still doing some fee-for-service as well. So that keeps some of the lights on. It's a high wire act for sure. But when it does work, it's a thing of beauty. Rocky > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Andy Lacey > Sent: Tuesday, March 30, 2004 1:18 PM > To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' > Subject: RE: [AccessD] OT: A survey from somebody not as well-connected > as JC > > > I envy Rocky (sort of) but won't be trying to emulate him. Been there, tried > that, and failed. Problem with the product thing is that you have to > metamorphose from developer into marketer, and I couldn't. Not my thing at > all. Plus IME it involves sinking money into advertising, mailing, > brochures, websites nd so on. You have to be prepared to risk big outlay > against no guarantee of return. Done that 2 or 3 times to great cost and no > great return. Won't be doing it again. > > -- Andy Lacey > http://www.minstersystems.co.uk > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of > > Steven W. Erbach > > Sent: 30 March 2004 04:16 > > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > > Subject: Re: [AccessD] OT: A survey from somebody not as > > well-connected as JC > > > > > > William, > > > > >> ...don't take this the wrong way << > > > > I won't. I appreciate your point of view. I have gotten > > caught up in the tools as if owning the right brand of socket > > wrench will guarantee me a living. > > > > But I hear you on the client-centered approach. I've worked > > on lots of things that were outside of my skill-set comfort zone. > > > > I talked with a friend recently about my business and he > > asked if there was anything I specialized in. I told him no; > > my business is producing custom solutions to solve customer > > problems. He recommended a product-centered approach, like > > what Rocky is aiming for. I have a long-term care facility > > marketing and donations program I wrote that might fill the > > bill. We'll see. > > > > >> ...but I'm just me and don't have any intention of ever > > working hard > > >> again << > > > > Not really an option for me as we're having some tough times > > financially. I can dig the varietal nature of your work, > > though. Thanks. > > > > Regards, > > > > Steve Erbach > > Scientific Marketing > > Neenah, WI > > > > "You must be an intellectual. No normal person would say a > > thing like that." - George Orwell > > > > -- > > _______________________________________________ > > AccessD mailing list > > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/a> ccessd > > Website: > > http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > > > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From bchacc at san.rr.com Wed Mar 31 00:01:37 2004 From: bchacc at san.rr.com (Rocky Smolin - Beach Access Software) Date: Tue, 30 Mar 2004 22:01:37 -0800 Subject: [AccessD] OT: A survey from somebody not as well-connected as JC References: Message-ID: <036f01c416e5$a11c6110$6601a8c0@HAL9002> My first luck came when I was 16 and my mother spotted an ad for weekend courses in programming for high school students at the Illinois Institute of Technology in Chicago (c. 1964). Asked me if I'd like to do it. Not just lucky because it's been a great professional field to be in, but because I always knew what I wanted to do which saved a lot of thrashing around trying to pick a major and a career and all that. I'm still a little surprised sometimes that folks will push money at me do to this. And I'll bet I'm not alone on this list. But I have to tell you (at the risk of incurring the moderator's wrath) that without this list I'd be lost. I started a business with another guy (not a programmer) and had to write the software to run it in Access. My first Access app. It was huge. Survey processing with lots of graphics. The list saved my bacon twice a day. Okay. I'm done. Rocky Rocky ----- Original Message ----- From: "Jim Lawrence (AccessD)" To: "Access Developers discussion and problem solving" Sent: Tuesday, March 30, 2004 8:26 PM Subject: RE: [AccessD] OT: A survey from somebody not as well-connected as JC > Hi Rocky: > > Your my type of guy...programmer that is. It you didn't love programming you > would not doing it...it sure isn't for the money... but who knows? Just one > lucky break. > > Jim > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Rocky Smolin - > Beach Access Software > Sent: Tuesday, March 30, 2004 2:49 PM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: Re: [AccessD] OT: A survey from somebody not as well-connected > as JC > > > Andy: > > Don't envy me. They jury's still out. I've got a bit of a buffer so we > won't miss any meals, but that can't go on forever. I've had two good > products and several bad ones. At least this time I'm starting in an > economy that's on the upswing. > > But I've always been a bootstrap kind of guy - we're doing a mailing in San > Diego county this month. Hopefully snag two or three systems. Then use > that money to mail again in another county. Build it up slowly. Instead of > mortgaging the house. > > I'm still doing some fee-for-service as well. So that keeps some of the > lights on. > > It's a high wire act for sure. But when it does work, it's a thing of > beauty. > > Rocky > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Andy Lacey > > Sent: Tuesday, March 30, 2004 1:18 PM > > To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' > > Subject: RE: [AccessD] OT: A survey from somebody not as well-connected > > as JC > > > > > > I envy Rocky (sort of) but won't be trying to emulate him. Been there, > tried > > that, and failed. Problem with the product thing is that you have to > > metamorphose from developer into marketer, and I couldn't. Not my thing at > > all. Plus IME it involves sinking money into advertising, mailing, > > brochures, websites nd so on. You have to be prepared to risk big outlay > > against no guarantee of return. Done that 2 or 3 times to great cost and > no > > great return. Won't be doing it again. > > > > -- Andy Lacey > > http://www.minstersystems.co.uk > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > > > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of > > > Steven W. Erbach > > > Sent: 30 March 2004 04:16 > > > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > > > Subject: Re: [AccessD] OT: A survey from somebody not as > > > well-connected as JC > > > > > > > > > William, > > > > > > >> ...don't take this the wrong way << > > > > > > I won't. I appreciate your point of view. I have gotten > > > caught up in the tools as if owning the right brand of socket > > > wrench will guarantee me a living. > > > > > > But I hear you on the client-centered approach. I've worked > > > on lots of things that were outside of my skill-set comfort zone. > > > > > > I talked with a friend recently about my business and he > > > asked if there was anything I specialized in. I told him no; > > > my business is producing custom solutions to solve customer > > > problems. He recommended a product-centered approach, like > > > what Rocky is aiming for. I have a long-term care facility > > > marketing and donations program I wrote that might fill the > > > bill. We'll see. > > > > > > >> ...but I'm just me and don't have any intention of ever > > > working hard > > > >> again << > > > > > > Not really an option for me as we're having some tough times > > > financially. I can dig the varietal nature of your work, > > > though. Thanks. > > > > > > Regards, > > > > > > Steve Erbach > > > Scientific Marketing > > > Neenah, WI > > > > > > "You must be an intellectual. No normal person would say a > > > thing like that." - George Orwell > > > > > > -- > > > _______________________________________________ > > > AccessD mailing list > > > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/a> ccessd > > > Website: > > > http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > > > > > > > -- > > _______________________________________________ > > AccessD mailing list > > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > > > -- > > _______________________________________________ > > AccessD mailing list > > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > From bchacc at san.rr.com Wed Mar 31 00:07:05 2004 From: bchacc at san.rr.com (Rocky Smolin - Beach Access Software) Date: Tue, 30 Mar 2004 22:07:05 -0800 Subject: [AccessD] OT: A survey from somebody not as well-connected as JC References: Message-ID: <037e01c416e6$64808550$6601a8c0@HAL9002> John: Do you snore? Loudly? Are you very tired upon waking up in the morning? Is you neck circumference over 16 inches? Might you fall asleep while watching TV? Does your wife say you stop breathing or gasp for air while you sleep? Is you body mass index over 26? If you answered yes to any of the above questions you need to be a Sleep Doctor beta tester. Let The Sleep Doctor help. Simply reply to bchacc at san.rr.com and say 'I wanna be a beta tester!'. Operators are standing by... Rocky Smolin Beach Access Software http://www.e-z-mrp.com ----- Original Message ----- From: "John Bartow" To: "Access Developers discussion and problem solving" Sent: Tuesday, March 30, 2004 8:55 PM Subject: RE: [AccessD] OT: A survey from somebody not as well-connected as JC > Good thing my wife doesn't read this or she'd order a copy to analyze me > right now :o) > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Rocky Smolin - > Beach Access Software > Sent: Tuesday, March 30, 2004 10:39 PM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: Re: [AccessD] OT: A survey from somebody not as well-connected > as JC > > > Sure. I estimate it will take to the end of the year before I see any real > results. > > I've got another product cooking as well - analyzes sleep disorders. Been > working on it with an expert in the field for 4-5 years (not continuously, > of course). Might be able to launch it this year. > > Do you want to be a beta tester? > > Rocky > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Kath Pelletti" > To: "Access Developers discussion and problem solving" > > Sent: Tuesday, March 30, 2004 8:23 PM > Subject: Re: [AccessD] OT: A survey from somebody not as well-connected as > JC > > > Well I wish you the very best of luck...can you let us know how the sales > go? > > Kath > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Rocky Smolin - Beach Access Software > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Sent: Wednesday, March 31, 2004 9:42 AM > Subject: Re: [AccessD] OT: A survey from somebody not as well-connected as > JC > > > Kath: > > In the 'old' days when I was flogging this package in DOS, I thought that > some of them would be sold by word of mouth, people seeing it, or the > reports that got passed around (which all had my company name in the > footer). So I always wanted everyone to have the latest version. So I > didn't charge for it. It was in my self-interest to have them use the > most > recent release. And I'm still going to keep to that policy for this new > version. > > If I add a module, like Order Entry, everybody will get it at no cost. > With > distribution by web, there really is no overhead cost to me to distribute > it. And good product sells more product. > > I promote the product support as a 'free phone in consulting service on > any > question related to the software OR manufacturing systems' for the first > year, and $300 a year after that (about 10% of the purchase price). > > In the past I had a lot of conversations with people about manufacturing > issues - how to structure a bill of materials, how to make up a part > numbering scheme, how to solve a particular work order problem, etc - and > very few questions about how to actually run the software. This added a > LOT > of value to the product and didn't really take very much time. > > The key is to make a product which is so user stupid that anybody who can > read and count to 20 can run it. Then you don't get the same question 20 > times a day, like 'how do I run a costed inventory report?'. > > If a user doesn't want to pay the yearly maintenance then they don't get > the > phone support. I could tell them they don't get the new releases as well > but that works against me salewise. Many people didn't pay for the > support > after the first couple of years because they never called me for anything. > > The other key, of course, it goes without saying, is to make the product > so > solid that it doesn't generate bugs and errors. Then you don't get any > support calls. > > BTW - I'm not a marketer or salesy type person, either. But if you have > something you believe in it's not really selling. And I really believe in > this product (why not, I invented it?). I just present the product and if > they like it fine. They buy it. If not, it's like pushing on a string. > > I always wanted people to feel like they got more than they expected and > when you sell hard you overhype, raise expectations, and end up with > customers who expect more than you have to give. > > When people buy E-Z-MRP they feel like they just bought a dollar for fifty > cents. That makes selling a lot easier, too. > > I suppose that's why I'm successful but not rich. :) > > HTH > > Rocky Smolin > Beach Access Software > http://www.e-z-mrp.com > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Kath Pelletti" > To: "Access Developers discussion and problem solving" > > Sent: Tuesday, March 30, 2004 2:59 PM > Subject: Re: [AccessD] OT: A survey from somebody not as well-connected as > JC > > > Rocky - out of interest - what support arrangements / fees are you > offering? > > Kath > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Rocky Smolin - Beach Access Software > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Sent: Wednesday, March 31, 2004 8:48 AM > Subject: Re: [AccessD] OT: A survey from somebody not as well-connected > as > JC > > > Andy: > > Don't envy me. They jury's still out. I've got a bit of a buffer so we > won't miss any meals, but that can't go on forever. I've had two good > products and several bad ones. At least this time I'm starting in an > economy that's on the upswing. > > But I've always been a bootstrap kind of guy - we're doing a mailing in > San > Diego county this month. Hopefully snag two or three systems. Then use > that money to mail again in another county. Build it up slowly. > Instead > of > mortgaging the house. > > I'm still doing some fee-for-service as well. So that keeps some of the > lights on. > > It's a high wire act for sure. But when it does work, it's a thing of > beauty. > > Rocky > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Andy Lacey > > Sent: Tuesday, March 30, 2004 1:18 PM > > To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' > > Subject: RE: [AccessD] OT: A survey from somebody not as > well-connected > > as JC > > > > > > I envy Rocky (sort of) but won't be trying to emulate him. Been there, > tried > > that, and failed. Problem with the product thing is that you have to > > metamorphose from developer into marketer, and I couldn't. Not my > thing > at > > all. Plus IME it involves sinking money into advertising, mailing, > > brochures, websites nd so on. You have to be prepared to risk big > outlay > > against no guarantee of return. Done that 2 or 3 times to great cost > and > no > > great return. Won't be doing it again. > > > > -- Andy Lacey > > http://www.minstersystems.co.uk > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > > > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of > > > Steven W. Erbach > > > Sent: 30 March 2004 04:16 > > > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > > > Subject: Re: [AccessD] OT: A survey from somebody not as > > > well-connected as JC > > > > > > > > > William, > > > > > > >> ...don't take this the wrong way << > > > > > > I won't. I appreciate your point of view. I have gotten > > > caught up in the tools as if owning the right brand of socket > > > wrench will guarantee me a living. > > > > > > But I hear you on the client-centered approach. I've worked > > > on lots of things that were outside of my skill-set comfort zone. > > > > > > I talked with a friend recently about my business and he > > > asked if there was anything I specialized in. I told him no; > > > my business is producing custom solutions to solve customer > > > problems. He recommended a product-centered approach, like > > > what Rocky is aiming for. I have a long-term care facility > > > marketing and donations program I wrote that might fill the > > > bill. We'll see. > > > > > > >> ...but I'm just me and don't have any intention of ever > > > working hard > > > >> again << > > > > > > Not really an option for me as we're having some tough times > > > financially. I can dig the varietal nature of your work, > > > though. Thanks. > > > > > > Regards, > > > > > > Steve Erbach > > > Scientific Marketing > > > Neenah, WI > > > > > > "You must be an intellectual. No normal person would say a > > > thing like that." - George Orwell > > > > > > -- > > > _______________________________________________ > > > AccessD mailing list > > > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/a> ccessd > > > Website: > > > http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > > > > > > > -- > > _______________________________________________ > > AccessD mailing list > > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > > > -- > > _______________________________________________ > > AccessD mailing list > > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > From d.dick at uws.edu.au Wed Mar 31 00:51:13 2004 From: d.dick at uws.edu.au (Darren DICK) Date: Wed, 31 Mar 2004 16:51:13 +1000 Subject: [AccessD] Slow Forms References: Message-ID: <013901c416ec$8f3562b0$48619a89@DDICK> Hi Reuben I don't stuff about with these sort of things any more I rename the Original form that is causing me dramas to Whatever_Original The create a new form from scratch. Import all the objects from the original form (open it in design view then Edit|Selectall|Edit|Copy) then paste all the objects to the new form then do same with the code from the original. Copy it all then pastes it all behind the new form Change all the form settings like Modal = true etc to match the old one Then save the new form with the Original form's name. That does it for me in most cases Hope this helps Darren ----- Original Message ----- From: "Reuben Cummings" To: "AccessD" Sent: Wednesday, March 31, 2004 7:14 AM Subject: [AccessD] Slow Forms > I need help with a form that opens very slowly. > > Everything worked very quickly until I compacted and repaired the db. After > compacting, this form will open slowly one time and then open quickly all > other times. It will continue to open as I would expect it to until it is > compacted again. > > However, if the app is made into an mde then it always opens slowly. > > The form is based on a query. There is a tab control on it. One tab has > about 14 fields from the same recordsource as the main form. The other > three tabs all have subforms based on queries. 2 of those queries have > fields that call functions to get their value. > > All the queries and subforms open very quickly. And if I delete the > subforms, the main form will always operate quickly. > > I have imported into new db's. I have completely rebuilt the main form. > > Any suggestions on where to start troubleshooting this thing? > > Thanks. > > Reuben Cummings > GFC, LLC > phone: 812.523.1017 > email: reuben at gfconsultants.com > > > > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From accessd667 at yahoo.com Wed Mar 31 01:10:20 2004 From: accessd667 at yahoo.com (S D) Date: Tue, 30 Mar 2004 23:10:20 -0800 (PST) Subject: [AccessD] Importing data using a Class..Who can help/review? In-Reply-To: <22F1CCD5171D17419CB37FEEE09D5F99030FE65F@TTNEXCHSRV1.hshhp.com> Message-ID: <20040331071020.95981.qmail@web61109.mail.yahoo.com> Thnx!! I'll give it a go. Sander Jim DeMarco wrote: Sorry there's an error in the code I posted. In the SaveLine method this: With rstInterfaceData .ActiveConnection = oCnn .CursorType = adOpenKeyset .LockType = adLockOptimistic .Source = "SELECT * FROM tblInterfaceData" .Open .AddNew !InterfaceID = intInterfaceID ' ...code omitted should be: With rstInterfaceData .ActiveConnection = m_oCnn .CursorType = adOpenKeyset .LockType = adLockOptimistic .Source = "SELECT * FROM tblInterfaceData" .Open .AddNew !InterfaceID = m_intInterfaceID ' ...code omitted ...forgot to refer to the module level variables! Jim DeMarco -----Original Message----- From: Jim DeMarco Sent: Tuesday, March 30, 2004 9:36 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] Importing data using a Class..Who can help/review? Sander, I took a quick look at this and I do see one thing I'd change. Rather than pass the connection and InterfaceID to every call of the cInterface.SaveLine method why not create an Init method in cInterface where you can pass in the connection and ID one time only before the loop? So your ImportInterface code might look like this when you're done: cnnConnection.BeginTrans cInterface.Init cnnConnection, intInterfaceID Do While Not objTS.AtEndOfStream 'strCurrentLine = objTS.ReadLine blnSaveLineOK = cInterface.SaveLine(intLineID, objTS.ReadLine) intLineID = intLineID + 1 Loop And your class would have a couple of module level variables to hold the connection and InterfaceID: Dim m_oCnn as ADODB.Connection Dim m_intInterfaceID as Integer Public Sub Init(Connection as ADODB.Connection, InterfaceID as Integer) Set m_oCnn = Connection m_intInterfaceID = InterfaceID End Sub Function SaveLine(intLineID As Integer, strLine As String) As Boolean Dim rstInterfaceData As ADODB.Recordset On Error GoTo SaveLine_Error Set rstInterfaceData = New ADODB.Recordset With rstInterfaceData .ActiveConnection = oCnn .CursorType = adOpenKeyset .LockType = adLockOptimistic .Source = "SELECT * FROM tblInterfaceData" .Open .AddNew !InterfaceID = intInterfaceID !InterfaceDate = Format(Now) !InterfaceLine = intLineID !InterfaceData = strLine .Update End With ' ...remaining code omitted for space HTH Jim DeMarco Director Application Development Hudson Health Plan -----Original Message----- From: S D [mailto:accessd667 at yahoo.com] Sent: Tuesday, March 30, 2004 2:38 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Importing data using a Class..Who can help/review? OK, I wanted to add a minidb but a message has a max size of 30KB... I've added the code I use in the following order: Form Module Class I've got the following questions: Q1: I'm calling the method SaveLine via a function ImportInterface. I don't think that this is very good programming. How can I improve this? Q2: I'm not using properties. Do I need them? For what and why? Q3: If anyone has more tips... Form Code Private Sub cmdReadFile_Click() Dim intInterfaceID As Integer intInterfaceID = cboImport Call ImportInterface(cboImport, "D:\Temp Projecten\Access\Interface.dat") End Sub Module '========================================================================================= ' Function Name : ImportInterface ' Parameters : intInterfaceID, strFilename ' Purpose : inserts every line of the interface into tblData ' Assumptions : --- ' Uses : --- ' Created : 2004-03-29 07:56, SaDe ' Modifications : '========================================================================================= Public Sub ImportInterface(intInterfaceID As Integer, strFilename As String) Dim objFSO As FileSystemObject Dim objTS As TextStream Dim strCurrentLine As String Dim strSQL As String Dim dtmCurrentDate As Date Dim intLineID As Integer Dim cInterface As cInterface Dim cnnConnection As ADODB.Connection Dim blnSaveLineOK As Boolean On Error GoTo ImportInterface_Error Set cnnConnection = CurrentProject.Connection Set objFSO = New FileSystemObject Set objTS = objFSO.OpenTextFile(strFilename) Set cInterface = New cInterface blnSaveLineOK = False intLineID = 1 cnnConnection.BeginTrans Do While Not objTS.AtEndOfStream 'strCurrentLine = objTS.ReadLine blnSaveLineOK = cInterface.SaveLine(cnnConnection, intInterfaceID, intLineID, objTS.ReadLine) intLineID = intLineID + 1 Loop 'Check if method executed correct If blnSaveLineOK Then cnnConnection.CommitTrans Call MsgBox("Interface imported!", vbInformation) Else cnnConnection.RollbackTrans Call MsgBox("An error occured!", vbCritical) End If Set cnnConnection = Nothing Exit Sub ImportInterface_Exit: ' Collect your garbage here cnnConnection.RollbackTrans Set cnnConnection = Nothing Exit Sub ImportInterface_Error: ' Collect your garbage here MsgBox "An Error Occured!!!" & Err.Number & ";" & Err.Description End Sub class cInterface Function SaveLine(cnnConnection As ADODB.Connection, intInterfaceID As Integer, intLineID As Integer, strLine As String) As Boolean Dim rstInterfaceData As ADODB.Recordset On Error GoTo SaveLine_Error Set rstInterfaceData = New ADODB.Recordset With rstInterfaceData .ActiveConnection = cnnConnection .CursorType = adOpenKeyset .LockType = adLockOptimistic .Source = "SELECT * FROM tblInterfaceData" .Open .AddNew !InterfaceID = intInterfaceID !InterfaceDate = Format(Now) !InterfaceLine = intLineID !InterfaceData = strLine .Update End With Set rstInterfaceData = Nothing 'Set cnnConnection = Nothing SaveLine = True SaveLine_Exit: ' Collect your garbage here Set rstInterfaceData = Nothing 'Set cnnConnection = Nothing Exit Function SaveLine_Error: ' Collect your garbage here SaveLine = False Call MsgBox(Err.Number & vbCrLf & _ Err.Description & vbCrLf & _ Err.Source & vbCrLf & _ "Newest.cInterface.SaveLine", vbCritical) Resume SaveLine_Exit End Function rsmethurst at uk.ey.com wrote: Sure Sander... I will. Cheers Ryan S D Sent by: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com 29/03/2004 14:46 Please respond to Access Developers discussion and problem solving To: accessd cc: Subject: [AccessD] Importing data using a Class..Who can help/review? Hi group, I'm building a little app that is able to import textfiles. I want to do this using a class. I've made a start and it works! Does anybody have the time/interest to shoot at it? It's very basic. I've got: a class called: cInterface a method called: SaveLine TIA Sander --------------------------------- Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Finance Tax Center - File online. File on time. -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com This e-mail and any attachment are confidential and contain proprietary information, some or all of which may be legally privileged. It is intended solely for the use of the individual or entity to which it is addressed. If you are not the intended recipient, please notify the author immediately by telephone or by replying to this e-mail, and then delete all copies of the e-mail on your system. If you are not the intended recipient, you must not use, disclose, distribute, copy, print or rely on this e-mail. Whilst we have taken reasonable precautions to ensure that this e-mail and any attachment has been checked for viruses, we cannot guarantee that they are virus free and we cannot accept liability for any damage sustained as a result of software viruses. We would advise that you carry out your own virus checks, especially before opening an attachment. The UK firm Ernst & Young LLP is a limited liability partnership registered in England and Wales with registered number OC300001 and is a member practice of Ernst & Young Global. A list of members? names is available for inspection at 1 More London Place, London, SE1 2AF, the firm?s principal place of business and its registered office. -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com --------------------------------- Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Finance Tax Center - File online. File on time. -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com *********************************************************************************** "This electronic message is intended to be for the use only of the named recipient, and may contain information from Hudson Health Plan (HHP) that is confidential or privileged. If you are not the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any disclosure, copying, distribution or use of the contents of this message is strictly prohibited. If you have received this message in error or are not the named recipient, please notify us immediately, either by contacting the sender at the electronic mail address noted above or calling HHP at (914) 631-1611. If you are not the intended recipient, please do not forward this email to anyone, and delete and destroy all copies of this message. Thank You". *********************************************************************************** -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com *********************************************************************************** "This electronic message is intended to be for the use only of the named recipient, and may contain information from Hudson Health Plan (HHP) that is confidential or privileged. If you are not the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any disclosure, copying, distribution or use of the contents of this message is strictly prohibited. If you have received this message in error or are not the named recipient, please notify us immediately, either by contacting the sender at the electronic mail address noted above or calling HHP at (914) 631-1611. If you are not the intended recipient, please do not forward this email to anyone, and delete and destroy all copies of this message. Thank You". *********************************************************************************** -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com --------------------------------- Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Finance Tax Center - File online. File on time. From john at winhaven.net Wed Mar 31 01:32:03 2004 From: john at winhaven.net (John Bartow) Date: Wed, 31 Mar 2004 01:32:03 -0600 Subject: [AccessD] OT: A survey from somebody not as well-connected as JC In-Reply-To: <037e01c416e6$64808550$6601a8c0@HAL9002> Message-ID: LOL (quietly its 1:30 AM). More just the wierd hours I keep. My wife says I was born to live in Hawaii where at least I would get up and go to bed the same time everyone else does! She's a creature of habit and I'm a habit of creature ;o) -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Rocky Smolin - Beach Access Software Sent: Wednesday, March 31, 2004 12:07 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] OT: A survey from somebody not as well-connected as JC John: Do you snore? Loudly? Are you very tired upon waking up in the morning? Is you neck circumference over 16 inches? Might you fall asleep while watching TV? Does your wife say you stop breathing or gasp for air while you sleep? Is you body mass index over 26? If you answered yes to any of the above questions you need to be a Sleep Doctor beta tester. Let The Sleep Doctor help. Simply reply to bchacc at san.rr.com and say 'I wanna be a beta tester!'. Operators are standing by... Rocky Smolin Beach Access Software http://www.e-z-mrp.com ----- Original Message ----- From: "John Bartow" To: "Access Developers discussion and problem solving" Sent: Tuesday, March 30, 2004 8:55 PM Subject: RE: [AccessD] OT: A survey from somebody not as well-connected as JC > Good thing my wife doesn't read this or she'd order a copy to analyze me > right now :o) > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Rocky Smolin - > Beach Access Software > Sent: Tuesday, March 30, 2004 10:39 PM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: Re: [AccessD] OT: A survey from somebody not as well-connected > as JC > > > Sure. I estimate it will take to the end of the year before I see any real > results. > > I've got another product cooking as well - analyzes sleep disorders. Been > working on it with an expert in the field for 4-5 years (not continuously, > of course). Might be able to launch it this year. > > Do you want to be a beta tester? > > Rocky > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Kath Pelletti" > To: "Access Developers discussion and problem solving" > > Sent: Tuesday, March 30, 2004 8:23 PM > Subject: Re: [AccessD] OT: A survey from somebody not as well-connected as > JC > > > Well I wish you the very best of luck...can you let us know how the sales > go? > > Kath > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Rocky Smolin - Beach Access Software > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Sent: Wednesday, March 31, 2004 9:42 AM > Subject: Re: [AccessD] OT: A survey from somebody not as well-connected as > JC > > > Kath: > > In the 'old' days when I was flogging this package in DOS, I thought that > some of them would be sold by word of mouth, people seeing it, or the > reports that got passed around (which all had my company name in the > footer). So I always wanted everyone to have the latest version. So I > didn't charge for it. It was in my self-interest to have them use the > most > recent release. And I'm still going to keep to that policy for this new > version. > > If I add a module, like Order Entry, everybody will get it at no cost. > With > distribution by web, there really is no overhead cost to me to distribute > it. And good product sells more product. > > I promote the product support as a 'free phone in consulting service on > any > question related to the software OR manufacturing systems' for the first > year, and $300 a year after that (about 10% of the purchase price). > > In the past I had a lot of conversations with people about manufacturing > issues - how to structure a bill of materials, how to make up a part > numbering scheme, how to solve a particular work order problem, etc - and > very few questions about how to actually run the software. This added a > LOT > of value to the product and didn't really take very much time. > > The key is to make a product which is so user stupid that anybody who can > read and count to 20 can run it. Then you don't get the same question 20 > times a day, like 'how do I run a costed inventory report?'. > > If a user doesn't want to pay the yearly maintenance then they don't get > the > phone support. I could tell them they don't get the new releases as well > but that works against me salewise. Many people didn't pay for the > support > after the first couple of years because they never called me for anything. > > The other key, of course, it goes without saying, is to make the product > so > solid that it doesn't generate bugs and errors. Then you don't get any > support calls. > > BTW - I'm not a marketer or salesy type person, either. But if you have > something you believe in it's not really selling. And I really believe in > this product (why not, I invented it?). I just present the product and if > they like it fine. They buy it. If not, it's like pushing on a string. > > I always wanted people to feel like they got more than they expected and > when you sell hard you overhype, raise expectations, and end up with > customers who expect more than you have to give. > > When people buy E-Z-MRP they feel like they just bought a dollar for fifty > cents. That makes selling a lot easier, too. > > I suppose that's why I'm successful but not rich. :) > > HTH > > Rocky Smolin > Beach Access Software > http://www.e-z-mrp.com > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Kath Pelletti" > To: "Access Developers discussion and problem solving" > > Sent: Tuesday, March 30, 2004 2:59 PM > Subject: Re: [AccessD] OT: A survey from somebody not as well-connected as > JC > > > Rocky - out of interest - what support arrangements / fees are you > offering? > > Kath > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Rocky Smolin - Beach Access Software > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Sent: Wednesday, March 31, 2004 8:48 AM > Subject: Re: [AccessD] OT: A survey from somebody not as well-connected > as > JC > > > Andy: > > Don't envy me. They jury's still out. I've got a bit of a buffer so we > won't miss any meals, but that can't go on forever. I've had two good > products and several bad ones. At least this time I'm starting in an > economy that's on the upswing. > > But I've always been a bootstrap kind of guy - we're doing a mailing in > San > Diego county this month. Hopefully snag two or three systems. Then use > that money to mail again in another county. Build it up slowly. > Instead > of > mortgaging the house. > > I'm still doing some fee-for-service as well. So that keeps some of the > lights on. > > It's a high wire act for sure. But when it does work, it's a thing of > beauty. > > Rocky > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Andy Lacey > > Sent: Tuesday, March 30, 2004 1:18 PM > > To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' > > Subject: RE: [AccessD] OT: A survey from somebody not as > well-connected > > as JC > > > > > > I envy Rocky (sort of) but won't be trying to emulate him. Been there, > tried > > that, and failed. Problem with the product thing is that you have to > > metamorphose from developer into marketer, and I couldn't. Not my > thing > at > > all. Plus IME it involves sinking money into advertising, mailing, > > brochures, websites nd so on. You have to be prepared to risk big > outlay > > against no guarantee of return. Done that 2 or 3 times to great cost > and > no > > great return. Won't be doing it again. > > > > -- Andy Lacey > > http://www.minstersystems.co.uk > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > > > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of > > > Steven W. Erbach > > > Sent: 30 March 2004 04:16 > > > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > > > Subject: Re: [AccessD] OT: A survey from somebody not as > > > well-connected as JC > > > > > > > > > William, > > > > > > >> ...don't take this the wrong way << > > > > > > I won't. I appreciate your point of view. I have gotten > > > caught up in the tools as if owning the right brand of socket > > > wrench will guarantee me a living. > > > > > > But I hear you on the client-centered approach. I've worked > > > on lots of things that were outside of my skill-set comfort zone. > > > > > > I talked with a friend recently about my business and he > > > asked if there was anything I specialized in. I told him no; > > > my business is producing custom solutions to solve customer > > > problems. He recommended a product-centered approach, like > > > what Rocky is aiming for. I have a long-term care facility > > > marketing and donations program I wrote that might fill the > > > bill. We'll see. > > > > > > >> ...but I'm just me and don't have any intention of ever > > > working hard > > > >> again << > > > > > > Not really an option for me as we're having some tough times > > > financially. I can dig the varietal nature of your work, > > > though. Thanks. > > > > > > Regards, > > > > > > Steve Erbach > > > Scientific Marketing > > > Neenah, WI > > > > > > "You must be an intellectual. No normal person would say a > > > thing like that." - George Orwell > > > > > > -- > > > _______________________________________________ > > > AccessD mailing list > > > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/a> ccessd > > > Website: > > > http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > > > > > > > -- > > _______________________________________________ > > AccessD mailing list > > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > > > -- > > _______________________________________________ > > AccessD mailing list > > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From accessd667 at yahoo.com Wed Mar 31 02:54:21 2004 From: accessd667 at yahoo.com (S D) Date: Wed, 31 Mar 2004 00:54:21 -0800 (PST) Subject: [AccessD] Cannot open second Recordset?! Message-ID: <20040331085421.99955.qmail@web61105.mail.yahoo.com> Hi group, I keep getting the error: Run-time error '-2147467259(80004005) Method 'Open' of object '_Recordset' failed *************** FORM / Button ********************** Dim arrFileLayout() As Variant Set cInterface = New cInterface With cInterface Call .Init(cnnConnection) Call .GetOpenLines(strSQL) Call .GetFileLayout(arrFileLayout(), 44) ... **************************************************** I get the error when calling the GetFileLayout (GFL) Method.. However the query in GFL is correct. When dropped in a query window it returns the expected records. As you can see I call the method GetOpenLines (GOL) This method works exactly the same but does work?! Skipping GOL also returns the same error?! What am I missing? TIA Sander **** Class cInterface ***** Dim m_oCnn As ADODB.Connection Public Sub Init(Connection As ADODB.Connection) Set m_oCnn = Connection 'm_intInterfaceID = InterfaceID End Sub Function GetFileLayout(ByRef arrFileLayout() As Variant, InterFaceID As Integer) As String 'Create a rst based on table tblInterfaceLayout Dim rstInterfaceLayout As ADODB.Recordset Dim strSQL As String Dim intCounter As Integer Dim cnnConnectIOn2 As ADODB.Connection Set rstInterfaceLayout = New ADODB.Recordset 'Set cnnConnectIOn2 = CurrentProject.Connection() strSQL = "SELECT InterfaceID, FieldID, FieldName, Start, End, Mandatory " & _ "FROM tblInterfaceLayout " & _ "WHERE InterfaceID = " & InterFaceID '"WHERE InterfaceID = " & intInterfaceID ReDim arrFileLayout(1, 3) intCounter = 0 With rstInterfaceLayout .ActiveConnection = m_oCnn 'cnnConnectIOn2 .CursorType = adOpenDynamic .LockType = adLockReadOnly .Source = strSQL .Open <= ERROR OCCURS HERE?! If Not (.BOF And .EOF) Then ... ... Function GetOpenLines(strSQL As String) As String Dim rstOpenLines As ADODB.Recordset Dim varLine As Variant Set rstOpenLines = New ADODB.Recordset With rstOpenLines .ActiveConnection = m_oCnn 'cnnConnection .CursorType = adOpenDynamic .LockType = adLockReadOnly .Source = strSQL .Open If Not (.BOF And .EOF) Then .MoveLast .MoveFirst Do While Not .EOF varLine = !InterfaceData 'Debug.Print varLine 'TODO: Add the data to the specified table .MoveNext Loop Else 'no records to proces End If End With End Function --------------------------------- Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Finance Tax Center - File online. File on time. From accessd667 at yahoo.com Wed Mar 31 03:15:17 2004 From: accessd667 at yahoo.com (S D) Date: Wed, 31 Mar 2004 01:15:17 -0800 (PST) Subject: [AccessD] Cannot open second Recordset?! In-Reply-To: <20040331085421.99955.qmail@web61105.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <20040331091517.7254.qmail@web61105.mail.yahoo.com> Hi group, when I change the SQL: strSQL = "SELECT InterfaceID, FieldID, FieldName, Start, End, Mandatory " & _ "FROM tblInterfaceLayout " & _ "WHERE InterfaceID = " & InterFaceID strSQL = "SELECT * FROM tblInterfaceLayout WHERE InterfaceID = " & InterFaceID it does work?! How is this possible? BTW i did NOT misspel the fieldnames because when I use the debug window to display strSQL I can run the query!! Sander S D wrote: Hi group, I keep getting the error: Run-time error '-2147467259(80004005) Method 'Open' of object '_Recordset' failed *************** FORM / Button ********************** Dim arrFileLayout() As Variant Set cInterface = New cInterface With cInterface Call .Init(cnnConnection) Call .GetOpenLines(strSQL) Call .GetFileLayout(arrFileLayout(), 44) ... **************************************************** I get the error when calling the GetFileLayout (GFL) Method.. However the query in GFL is correct. When dropped in a query window it returns the expected records. As you can see I call the method GetOpenLines (GOL) This method works exactly the same but does work?! Skipping GOL also returns the same error?! What am I missing? TIA Sander **** Class cInterface ***** Dim m_oCnn As ADODB.Connection Public Sub Init(Connection As ADODB.Connection) Set m_oCnn = Connection 'm_intInterfaceID = InterfaceID End Sub Function GetFileLayout(ByRef arrFileLayout() As Variant, InterFaceID As Integer) As String 'Create a rst based on table tblInterfaceLayout Dim rstInterfaceLayout As ADODB.Recordset Dim strSQL As String Dim intCounter As Integer Dim cnnConnectIOn2 As ADODB.Connection Set rstInterfaceLayout = New ADODB.Recordset 'Set cnnConnectIOn2 = CurrentProject.Connection() strSQL = "SELECT InterfaceID, FieldID, FieldName, Start, End, Mandatory " & _ "FROM tblInterfaceLayout " & _ "WHERE InterfaceID = " & InterFaceID '"WHERE InterfaceID = " & intInterfaceID ReDim arrFileLayout(1, 3) intCounter = 0 With rstInterfaceLayout .ActiveConnection = m_oCnn 'cnnConnectIOn2 .CursorType = adOpenDynamic .LockType = adLockReadOnly .Source = strSQL .Open <= ERROR OCCURS HERE?! If Not (.BOF And .EOF) Then ... ... Function GetOpenLines(strSQL As String) As String Dim rstOpenLines As ADODB.Recordset Dim varLine As Variant Set rstOpenLines = New ADODB.Recordset With rstOpenLines .ActiveConnection = m_oCnn 'cnnConnection .CursorType = adOpenDynamic .LockType = adLockReadOnly .Source = strSQL .Open If Not (.BOF And .EOF) Then .MoveLast .MoveFirst Do While Not .EOF varLine = !InterfaceData 'Debug.Print varLine 'TODO: Add the data to the specified table .MoveNext Loop Else 'no records to proces End If End With End Function --------------------------------- Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Finance Tax Center - File online. File on time. -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com --------------------------------- Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Finance Tax Center - File online. File on time. From gustav at cactus.dk Wed Mar 31 02:40:49 2004 From: gustav at cactus.dk (Gustav Brock) Date: Wed, 31 Mar 2004 10:40:49 +0200 Subject: [AccessD] Lookup Fields in Table Design In-Reply-To: <20040330183636.WVRQ1715.imf16aec.mail.bellsouth.net@SUSANONE> References: <20040330183636.WVRQ1715.imf16aec.mail.bellsouth.net@SUSANONE> Message-ID: <256730107.20040331104049@cactus.dk> Hi Susan > Whatever did you do to those poor little girls?????????? ;) Nothing! I was always the nice boy ... /gustav > It turns better and better! That comment reminds me of some experiences in > the school yard where someone (mostly nice little > girls) tried to wash their hands after something "just happened" ... From gustav at cactus.dk Wed Mar 31 03:17:46 2004 From: gustav at cactus.dk (Gustav Brock) Date: Wed, 31 Mar 2004 11:17:46 +0200 Subject: [AccessD] Snapshot Viewer to text In-Reply-To: <005701c41692$6cff8d60$0f01a8c0@cddserver2> References: <005701c41692$6cff8d60$0f01a8c0@cddserver2> Message-ID: <1338946814.20040331111746@cactus.dk> Hi John You could print to a pdf file via a PDF-printer. Then open the pdf file in Adobe viewer and copy/paste the text you need. /gustav > Anyone know if you can take a snapshot viewer file and convert it to > text? From gustav at cactus.dk Wed Mar 31 03:27:10 2004 From: gustav at cactus.dk (Gustav Brock) Date: Wed, 31 Mar 2004 11:27:10 +0200 Subject: [AccessD] Cannot open second Recordset?! In-Reply-To: <20040331091517.7254.qmail@web61105.mail.yahoo.com> References: <20040331091517.7254.qmail@web61105.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <1989510976.20040331112710@cactus.dk> Hi Sander Maybe End is a reserved word? Try leaving out one field name, then another etc. until the query doesn't fail. /gustav > when I change the SQL: > strSQL = "SELECT InterfaceID, FieldID, FieldName, Start, End, > Mandatory " & _ > "FROM tblInterfaceLayout " & _ > "WHERE InterfaceID = " & InterFaceID > strSQL = "SELECT * FROM tblInterfaceLayout WHERE InterfaceID = " & InterFaceID > it does work?! How is this possible? BTW i did NOT misspel the fieldnames because when I use the debug window to display strSQL I can run the query!! From rsmethurst at UK.EY.COM Wed Mar 31 03:44:53 2004 From: rsmethurst at UK.EY.COM (rsmethurst at UK.EY.COM) Date: Wed, 31 Mar 2004 10:44:53 +0100 Subject: [AccessD] Cannot open second Recordset?! Message-ID: Sander, I had a similar problem not so long ago and it was definitely associate with a reserved word in the syntax. If you place [ ]'s around all field names, I'm pretty sure it will work for you...and if you need to find out which one it is, just remove them one by one. (Was a real pain because that error message is about as helpful as a kick in the teeth.) Ryan Gustav Brock Sent by: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com 31/03/2004 10:27 Please respond to Access Developers discussion and problem solving To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving cc: Subject: Re: [AccessD] Cannot open second Recordset?! Hi Sander Maybe End is a reserved word? Try leaving out one field name, then another etc. until the query doesn't fail. /gustav > when I change the SQL: > strSQL = "SELECT InterfaceID, FieldID, FieldName, Start, End, > Mandatory " & _ > "FROM tblInterfaceLayout " & _ > "WHERE InterfaceID = " & InterFaceID > strSQL = "SELECT * FROM tblInterfaceLayout WHERE InterfaceID = " & InterFaceID > it does work?! How is this possible? BTW i did NOT misspel the fieldnames because when I use the debug window to display strSQL I can run the query!! -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com This e-mail and any attachment are confidential and contain proprietary information, some or all of which may be legally privileged. It is intended solely for the use of the individual or entity to which it is addressed. If you are not the intended recipient, please notify the author immediately by telephone or by replying to this e-mail, and then delete all copies of the e-mail on your system. If you are not the intended recipient, you must not use, disclose, distribute, copy, print or rely on this e-mail. Whilst we have taken reasonable precautions to ensure that this e-mail and any attachment has been checked for viruses, we cannot guarantee that they are virus free and we cannot accept liability for any damage sustained as a result of software viruses. We would advise that you carry out your own virus checks, especially before opening an attachment. The UK firm Ernst & Young LLP is a limited liability partnership registered in England and Wales with registered number OC300001 and is a member practice of Ernst & Young Global. A list of members? names is available for inspection at 1 More London Place, London, SE1 2AF, the firm?s principal place of business and its registered office. From mwp.reid at qub.ac.uk Wed Mar 31 04:15:31 2004 From: mwp.reid at qub.ac.uk (Martin Reid) Date: Wed, 31 Mar 2004 11:15:31 +0100 Subject: [AccessD] New SQL Question References: <000301c411aa$1d158a80$6401a8c0@COA3><40638618.8080805@shaw.ca><1626260251.20040326103055@cactus.dk><000901c4159b$2a3a1420$9111758f@aine><40685C8E.8010804@shaw.ca><003101c415c6$9b04d6b0$1b02a8c0@MARTINREID><1389061209.20040330112532@cactus.dk><001b01c4166a$a5ec0770$9111758f@aine> <4232119245.20040330174950@cactus.dk> Message-ID: <001701c41709$192e0f50$9111758f@aine> Heres the record ID 2003001 A 12.9 B 15.4 C1 12.5 D1 10 C2 Null D2 12.9 Given the above how do I get a count for ID 2003001 of 5 indicating that the student sat 5 exams out of the possible 6. The Null indicates that the student did not sit that exam. Not my DB and I cant change anything re structure etc Martin From paul.hartland at fsmail.net Wed Mar 31 04:31:54 2004 From: paul.hartland at fsmail.net (paul.hartland at fsmail.net) Date: Wed, 31 Mar 2004 12:31:54 +0200 (CEST) Subject: [AccessD] New SQL Question Message-ID: <10836365.1080729114445.JavaMail.www@wwinf3005> Martin, Could try something like to following: SELECT StudentID, Count(Exam) As Exams, Count(Pass) As ExamsTaken FROM YourTable GROUP BY StudentID HAVING (((Count(Pass)) Is Not Null)) Paul Message date : Mar 31 2004, 11:19 AM >From : "Martin Reid" To : "Access Developers discussion and problem solving" Copy to : Subject : [AccessD] New SQL Question Heres the record ID 2003001 A 12.9 B 15.4 C1 12.5 D1 10 C2 Null D2 12.9 Given the above how do I get a count for ID 2003001 of 5 indicating that the student sat 5 exams out of the possible 6. The Null indicates that the student did not sit that exam. Not my DB and I cant change anything re structure etc Martin -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com Freeserve AnyTime - HALF PRICE for the first 3 months - Save ?7.50 a month www.freeserve.com/anytime From mwp.reid at qub.ac.uk Wed Mar 31 04:38:44 2004 From: mwp.reid at qub.ac.uk (Martin Reid) Date: Wed, 31 Mar 2004 11:38:44 +0100 Subject: [AccessD] New SQL Question References: <10836365.1080729114445.JavaMail.www@wwinf3005> Message-ID: <000701c4170c$571273d0$9111758f@aine> Thanks Paul we got it worked out after sending the email. Best Wishes Martin ----- Original Message ----- From: To: "Access Developers discussion and problem solving" Sent: Wednesday, March 31, 2004 11:31 AM Subject: Re: [AccessD] New SQL Question Martin, Could try something like to following: SELECT StudentID, Count(Exam) As Exams, Count(Pass) As ExamsTaken FROM YourTable GROUP BY StudentID HAVING (((Count(Pass)) Is Not Null)) Paul Message date : Mar 31 2004, 11:19 AM >From : "Martin Reid" To : "Access Developers discussion and problem solving" Copy to : Subject : [AccessD] New SQL Question Heres the record ID 2003001 A 12.9 B 15.4 C1 12.5 D1 10 C2 Null D2 12.9 Given the above how do I get a count for ID 2003001 of 5 indicating that the student sat 5 exams out of the possible 6. The Null indicates that the student did not sit that exam. Not my DB and I cant change anything re structure etc Martin -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com Freeserve AnyTime - HALF PRICE for the first 3 months - Save ?7.50 a month www.freeserve.com/anytime -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From accessd667 at yahoo.com Wed Mar 31 05:31:57 2004 From: accessd667 at yahoo.com (S D) Date: Wed, 31 Mar 2004 03:31:57 -0800 (PST) Subject: [AccessD] Cannot open second Recordset?! SOLVED In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <20040331113157.99567.qmail@web61101.mail.yahoo.com> Hi Ryan, Gustav, you're both correct! thnx a lot. Sander rsmethurst at uk.ey.com wrote: Sander, I had a similar problem not so long ago and it was definitely associate with a reserved word in the syntax. If you place [ ]'s around all field names, I'm pretty sure it will work for you...and if you need to find out which one it is, just remove them one by one. (Was a real pain because that error message is about as helpful as a kick in the teeth.) Ryan Gustav Brock Sent by: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com 31/03/2004 10:27 Please respond to Access Developers discussion and problem solving To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving cc: Subject: Re: [AccessD] Cannot open second Recordset?! Hi Sander Maybe End is a reserved word? Try leaving out one field name, then another etc. until the query doesn't fail. /gustav > when I change the SQL: > strSQL = "SELECT InterfaceID, FieldID, FieldName, Start, End, > Mandatory " & _ > "FROM tblInterfaceLayout " & _ > "WHERE InterfaceID = " & InterFaceID > strSQL = "SELECT * FROM tblInterfaceLayout WHERE InterfaceID = " & InterFaceID > it does work?! How is this possible? BTW i did NOT misspel the fieldnames because when I use the debug window to display strSQL I can run the query!! -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com This e-mail and any attachment are confidential and contain proprietary information, some or all of which may be legally privileged. It is intended solely for the use of the individual or entity to which it is addressed. If you are not the intended recipient, please notify the author immediately by telephone or by replying to this e-mail, and then delete all copies of the e-mail on your system. If you are not the intended recipient, you must not use, disclose, distribute, copy, print or rely on this e-mail. Whilst we have taken reasonable precautions to ensure that this e-mail and any attachment has been checked for viruses, we cannot guarantee that they are virus free and we cannot accept liability for any damage sustained as a result of software viruses. We would advise that you carry out your own virus checks, especially before opening an attachment. The UK firm Ernst & Young LLP is a limited liability partnership registered in England and Wales with registered number OC300001 and is a member practice of Ernst & Young Global. A list of members? names is available for inspection at 1 More London Place, London, SE1 2AF, the firm?s principal place of business and its registered office. -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com --------------------------------- Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Finance Tax Center - File online. File on time. From greggs at msn.com Wed Mar 31 07:03:52 2004 From: greggs at msn.com (Gregg) Date: Wed, 31 Mar 2004 07:03:52 -0600 Subject: [AccessD] Compacting A2K In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Oh yeah... sorry. Office 2K...SP3, Jet... none, NT4...SP6 Thanks John! -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of John W. Colby Sent: Tuesday, March 30, 2004 9:15 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] Compacting A2K Office Service packs applied? Jet SPs applied? Windows SPs applied? John W. Colby www.ColbyConsulting.com -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Gregg Sent: Tuesday, March 30, 2004 10:16 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: [AccessD] Compacting A2K I'm really stumped on this one. I have a 2K database that won't compact. It says the temporary database is in use. Every once in while it will work... maybe 1 out of 20 tries. This app is running under NT4 and Citrix. I opened a new database and imported just the tables and got the same error. I have a mixture of SQL and Access linked tables as well as FE tables. I start removing tables until it begins working but when I add the last tables I deleted back in, it still works. It's not consistent. When it begins to work I start getting another occasional error. At the end of the compact process I get an error that says "Cannot find field 'Description'". I do have tables with a field name of description but when I remove them I still get the error. The Help says it is error 3799. I can't find anything on it anywhere. Also, I can move the app to another machine and it will compact fine at least until it looks for the SQL links. We rebuilt Citrix and NT OS which did not help. Gregg Steinbrenner -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From accessd667 at yahoo.com Wed Mar 31 06:57:00 2004 From: accessd667 at yahoo.com (S D) Date: Wed, 31 Mar 2004 04:57:00 -0800 (PST) Subject: [AccessD] Check dateformat in wich event? Message-ID: <20040331125702.29870.qmail@web61106.mail.yahoo.com> hi group, I need to check a dozen date-fields and check if the date entered is DD-MMM-YYYY. I've created a constant: Public Const DATE_FORMAT As String = "dd-mmm-yyyy" I want to check the date format like this: Me.txtDate.Text = Format(Me.txtDate, DATE_FORMAT) Wich event is most suited for this? TIA Sander --------------------------------- Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Finance Tax Center - File online. File on time. From gustav at cactus.dk Wed Mar 31 07:25:17 2004 From: gustav at cactus.dk (Gustav Brock) Date: Wed, 31 Mar 2004 15:25:17 +0200 Subject: [AccessD] Check dateformat in wich event? In-Reply-To: <20040331125702.29870.qmail@web61106.mail.yahoo.com> References: <20040331125702.29870.qmail@web61106.mail.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <13723798099.20040331152517@cactus.dk> Hi Sander Wouldn't it be simpler just to apply that format to the textboxes directly? /gustav > I need to check a dozen date-fields and check if the date entered is DD-MMM-YYYY. > I've created a constant: > Public Const DATE_FORMAT As String = "dd-mmm-yyyy" > I want to check the date format like this: > Me.txtDate.Text = Format(Me.txtDate, DATE_FORMAT) > Wich event is most suited for this? From accessd667 at yahoo.com Wed Mar 31 07:37:03 2004 From: accessd667 at yahoo.com (S D) Date: Wed, 31 Mar 2004 05:37:03 -0800 (PST) Subject: [AccessD] Check dateformat in wich event? In-Reply-To: <13723798099.20040331152517@cactus.dk> Message-ID: <20040331133703.96398.qmail@web61105.mail.yahoo.com> Gustav, very big :-) Great idea. Works like a charm Sander Gustav Brock wrote: Hi Sander Wouldn't it be simpler just to apply that format to the textboxes directly? /gustav > I need to check a dozen date-fields and check if the date entered is DD-MMM-YYYY. > I've created a constant: > Public Const DATE_FORMAT As String = "dd-mmm-yyyy" > I want to check the date format like this: > Me.txtDate.Text = Format(Me.txtDate, DATE_FORMAT) > Wich event is most suited for this? -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com --------------------------------- Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Finance Tax Center - File online. File on time. From ssharkins at bellsouth.net Wed Mar 31 07:38:46 2004 From: ssharkins at bellsouth.net (Susan Harkins) Date: Wed, 31 Mar 2004 08:38:46 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Check dateformat in wich event? In-Reply-To: <13723798099.20040331152517@cactus.dk> Message-ID: <20040331133845.RFZS1763.imf21aec.mail.bellsouth.net@SUSANONE> And you point fingers at me?????????????? ;) Susan H. Hi Sander Wouldn't it be simpler just to apply that format to the textboxes directly? /gustav From gustav at cactus.dk Wed Mar 31 07:46:41 2004 From: gustav at cactus.dk (Gustav Brock) Date: Wed, 31 Mar 2004 15:46:41 +0200 Subject: [AccessD] Check dateformat in wich event? In-Reply-To: <20040331133845.RFZS1763.imf21aec.mail.bellsouth.net@SUSANONE> References: <20040331133845.RFZS1763.imf21aec.mail.bellsouth.net@SUSANONE> Message-ID: <10725082026.20040331154641@cactus.dk> Hi Susan ?? Not me! Today you have behaved nicely ... What did you do? /gustav > And you point fingers at me?????????????? ;) > Susan H. > Hi Sander > Wouldn't it be simpler just to apply that format to the textboxes directly? > /gustav From accessd667 at yahoo.com Wed Mar 31 07:52:08 2004 From: accessd667 at yahoo.com (S D) Date: Wed, 31 Mar 2004 05:52:08 -0800 (PST) Subject: [AccessD] Check dateformat in wich event? In-Reply-To: <20040331133845.RFZS1763.imf21aec.mail.bellsouth.net@SUSANONE> Message-ID: <20040331135208.826.qmail@web61105.mail.yahoo.com> Que? Susan Harkins wrote:And you point fingers at me?????????????? ;) Susan H. Hi Sander Wouldn't it be simpler just to apply that format to the textboxes directly? /gustav -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com --------------------------------- Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Finance Tax Center - File online. File on time. From ssharkins at bellsouth.net Wed Mar 31 07:55:21 2004 From: ssharkins at bellsouth.net (Susan Harkins) Date: Wed, 31 Mar 2004 08:55:21 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] OT: A survey from somebody not as well-connected as JC In-Reply-To: <036701c416da$1e2c5540$6601a8c0@HAL9002> Message-ID: <20040331135520.JBJU1797.imf22aec.mail.bellsouth.net@SUSANONE> I have long thought that the way to make money with Access/SQL Server or really any program that you can manipulate vai code is to make small modules that make the user's life easier, not a finished package per se. Now Rocky may have the once in a lifetime great idea that has a large audience, but most of us aren't going to experience that. What we can do, is produce drop-in modules that make the average user's life easier. Wizards are OK, but most of them really won't take the user very far toward getting the word done. You sell a module that does something you think is really rather mundane, but that the average user doesn't hve the experience to automate. The cost is so small anyone can purchase it, and you make money in volume. Will you get rich? Probably not, but I still think there's potential there. Something as simple as a generic module that lets the user determine how many labels to print for each record, and specify a position to start on the first label sheet so they can use a half-used sheet of labels. Both are something I've written about -- could easily be automated to fit be dropped into any module and users would buy it if you only charge $5 or $10. There are tons of ideas for such a market -- but can't tell you where or how to market them. Here's a few more -- a combo or list that automatically displays all the visible reports or forms in the application (omitting hidden and system objects I mean). These are things users could really use and would probably pay a few bucks for. Everyone's busy with custom development, and there's money to be made I'm sure, but there are ton more "users" than developers, but all the products are for developers. Susan H. Sure. I estimate it will take to the end of the year before I see any real results. I've got another product cooking as well - analyzes sleep disorders. Been working on it with an expert in the field for 4-5 years (not continuously, of course). Might be able to launch it this year. Do you want to be a beta tester? Rocky ----- Original Message ----- From: "Kath Pelletti" To: "Access Developers discussion and problem solving" Sent: Tuesday, March 30, 2004 8:23 PM Subject: Re: [AccessD] OT: A survey from somebody not as well-connected as JC Well I wish you the very best of luck...can you let us know how the sales go? Kath ----- Original Message ----- From: Rocky Smolin - Beach Access Software To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Sent: Wednesday, March 31, 2004 9:42 AM Subject: Re: [AccessD] OT: A survey from somebody not as well-connected as JC Kath: In the 'old' days when I was flogging this package in DOS, I thought that some of them would be sold by word of mouth, people seeing it, or the reports that got passed around (which all had my company name in the footer). So I always wanted everyone to have the latest version. So I didn't charge for it. It was in my self-interest to have them use the most recent release. And I'm still going to keep to that policy for this new version. If I add a module, like Order Entry, everybody will get it at no cost. With distribution by web, there really is no overhead cost to me to distribute it. And good product sells more product. I promote the product support as a 'free phone in consulting service on any question related to the software OR manufacturing systems' for the first year, and $300 a year after that (about 10% of the purchase price). In the past I had a lot of conversations with people about manufacturing issues - how to structure a bill of materials, how to make up a part numbering scheme, how to solve a particular work order problem, etc - and very few questions about how to actually run the software. This added a LOT of value to the product and didn't really take very much time. The key is to make a product which is so user stupid that anybody who can read and count to 20 can run it. Then you don't get the same question 20 times a day, like 'how do I run a costed inventory report?'. If a user doesn't want to pay the yearly maintenance then they don't get the phone support. I could tell them they don't get the new releases as well but that works against me salewise. Many people didn't pay for the support after the first couple of years because they never called me for anything. The other key, of course, it goes without saying, is to make the product so solid that it doesn't generate bugs and errors. Then you don't get any support calls. BTW - I'm not a marketer or salesy type person, either. But if you have something you believe in it's not really selling. And I really believe in this product (why not, I invented it?). I just present the product and if they like it fine. They buy it. If not, it's like pushing on a string. I always wanted people to feel like they got more than they expected and when you sell hard you overhype, raise expectations, and end up with customers who expect more than you have to give. When people buy E-Z-MRP they feel like they just bought a dollar for fifty cents. That makes selling a lot easier, too. I suppose that's why I'm successful but not rich. :) HTH Rocky Smolin Beach Access Software http://www.e-z-mrp.com ----- Original Message ----- From: "Kath Pelletti" To: "Access Developers discussion and problem solving" Sent: Tuesday, March 30, 2004 2:59 PM Subject: Re: [AccessD] OT: A survey from somebody not as well-connected as JC Rocky - out of interest - what support arrangements / fees are you offering? Kath ----- Original Message ----- From: Rocky Smolin - Beach Access Software To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Sent: Wednesday, March 31, 2004 8:48 AM Subject: Re: [AccessD] OT: A survey from somebody not as well-connected as JC Andy: Don't envy me. They jury's still out. I've got a bit of a buffer so we won't miss any meals, but that can't go on forever. I've had two good products and several bad ones. At least this time I'm starting in an economy that's on the upswing. But I've always been a bootstrap kind of guy - we're doing a mailing in San Diego county this month. Hopefully snag two or three systems. Then use that money to mail again in another county. Build it up slowly. Instead of mortgaging the house. I'm still doing some fee-for-service as well. So that keeps some of the lights on. It's a high wire act for sure. But when it does work, it's a thing of beauty. Rocky > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Andy Lacey > Sent: Tuesday, March 30, 2004 1:18 PM > To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' > Subject: RE: [AccessD] OT: A survey from somebody not as well-connected > as JC > > > I envy Rocky (sort of) but won't be trying to emulate him. Been there, tried > that, and failed. Problem with the product thing is that you have to > metamorphose from developer into marketer, and I couldn't. Not my thing at > all. Plus IME it involves sinking money into advertising, mailing, > brochures, websites nd so on. You have to be prepared to risk big outlay > against no guarantee of return. Done that 2 or 3 times to great cost and no > great return. Won't be doing it again. > > -- Andy Lacey > http://www.minstersystems.co.uk > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of > > Steven W. Erbach > > Sent: 30 March 2004 04:16 > > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > > Subject: Re: [AccessD] OT: A survey from somebody not as > > well-connected as JC > > > > > > William, > > > > >> ...don't take this the wrong way << > > > > I won't. I appreciate your point of view. I have gotten > > caught up in the tools as if owning the right brand of socket > > wrench will guarantee me a living. > > > > But I hear you on the client-centered approach. I've worked > > on lots of things that were outside of my skill-set comfort zone. > > > > I talked with a friend recently about my business and he > > asked if there was anything I specialized in. I told him no; > > my business is producing custom solutions to solve customer > > problems. He recommended a product-centered approach, like > > what Rocky is aiming for. I have a long-term care facility > > marketing and donations program I wrote that might fill the > > bill. We'll see. > > > > >> ...but I'm just me and don't have any intention of ever > > working hard > > >> again << > > > > Not really an option for me as we're having some tough times > > financially. I can dig the varietal nature of your work, > > though. Thanks. > > > > Regards, > > > > Steve Erbach > > Scientific Marketing > > Neenah, WI > > > > "You must be an intellectual. No normal person would say a > > thing like that." - George Orwell > > > > -- > > _______________________________________________ > > AccessD mailing list > > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/a> ccessd > > Website: > > http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > > > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From ssharkins at bellsouth.net Wed Mar 31 07:57:39 2004 From: ssharkins at bellsouth.net (Susan Harkins) Date: Wed, 31 Mar 2004 08:57:39 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] OT: A survey from somebody not as well-connected as JC In-Reply-To: <037e01c416e6$64808550$6601a8c0@HAL9002> Message-ID: <20040331135738.JCMI1797.imf22aec.mail.bellsouth.net@SUSANONE> If you answered yes to any of the above questions you need to be a Sleep Doctor beta tester. Let The Sleep Doctor help. Simply reply to bchacc at san.rr.com and say 'I wanna be a beta tester!'. Operators are standing by... =======Hey, I took it, and you don't want to know what it said about me. :) It kept snickering... ;) Susan H. From serbach at new.rr.com Wed Mar 31 08:58:48 2004 From: serbach at new.rr.com (Steven W. Erbach) Date: Wed, 31 Mar 2004 08:58:48 -0600 Subject: [AccessD] New SQL Question Message-ID: <20040331085848.1669675382.serbach@new.rr.com> Martin, >> Thanks Paul we got it worked out after sending the email. << As Bryan Carbonnell says, "I think that the send button actually turns brains on." Regards, Steve Erbach Scientific Marketing Neenah, WI "You must be an intellectual. No normal person would say a thing like that." - George Orwell From mwp.reid at qub.ac.uk Wed Mar 31 09:06:35 2004 From: mwp.reid at qub.ac.uk (Martin Reid) Date: Wed, 31 Mar 2004 16:06:35 +0100 Subject: [AccessD] New SQL Question References: <20040331085848.1669675382.serbach@new.rr.com> Message-ID: <001501c41731$c24b07f0$9111758f@aine> LOL Seems to be. Once I sent the message I set down again and looked at the problem and the answer was fairly straight forward. Sometimes I think it helps simply by writing down the problem rather than going around and around inside your head with it. Martin ----- Original Message ----- From: "Steven W. Erbach" To: "Access Developers discussion and problem solving" Sent: Wednesday, March 31, 2004 3:58 PM Subject: Re: [AccessD] New SQL Question > Martin, > > >> Thanks Paul we got it worked out after sending the email. << > > As Bryan Carbonnell says, "I think that the send button actually turns brains on." > > Regards, > > Steve Erbach > Scientific Marketing > Neenah, WI > > "You must be an intellectual. No normal person would say a thing like that." - George Orwell > > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > From garykjos at hotmail.com Wed Mar 31 10:01:48 2004 From: garykjos at hotmail.com (Gary Kjos) Date: Wed, 31 Mar 2004 10:01:48 -0600 Subject: [AccessD] Compacting A2K Message-ID: >>>>"Cannot find field 'Description'". Error on Compacting A2K<<<< The times I have had this error it's been because I didn't have enough free disk space. You need at least twice the available free space as the size of the oiriginal database. And some of that space si needed on the drive where the Windows Temp files go. Gary Kjos garykjos at hotmail.com >From: "Gregg" >Reply-To: Access Developers discussion and problem >solving >To: "Access Developers discussion and problem >solving" >Subject: RE: [AccessD] Compacting A2K >Date: Wed, 31 Mar 2004 07:03:52 -0600 > > > >Oh yeah... sorry. Office 2K...SP3, Jet... none, NT4...SP6 > >Thanks John! > >-----Original Message----- >From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com >[mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of John W. Colby >Sent: Tuesday, March 30, 2004 9:15 PM >To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving >Subject: RE: [AccessD] Compacting A2K > > >Office Service packs applied? Jet SPs applied? Windows SPs applied? > >John W. Colby >www.ColbyConsulting.com > >-----Original Message----- >From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com >[mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Gregg >Sent: Tuesday, March 30, 2004 10:16 PM >To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving >Subject: [AccessD] Compacting A2K > > >I'm really stumped on this one. > >I have a 2K database that won't compact. It says the temporary database is >in use. Every once in while it will work... maybe 1 out of 20 tries. This >app is running under NT4 and Citrix. > >I opened a new database and imported just the tables and got the same >error. >I have a mixture of SQL and Access linked tables as well as FE tables. I >start removing tables until it begins working but when I add the last >tables >I deleted back in, it still works. It's not consistent. > >When it begins to work I start getting another occasional error. At the end >of the compact process I get an error that says "Cannot find field >'Description'". I do have tables with a field name of description but when >I remove them I still get the error. The Help says it is error 3799. I >can't find anything on it anywhere. > >Also, I can move the app to another machine and it will compact fine at >least until it looks for the SQL links. We rebuilt Citrix and NT OS which >did not help. > >Gregg Steinbrenner > > >-- >_______________________________________________ >AccessD mailing list >AccessD at databaseadvisors.com >http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd >Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > >-- >_______________________________________________ >AccessD mailing list >AccessD at databaseadvisors.com >http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd >Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > >-- >_______________________________________________ >AccessD mailing list >AccessD at databaseadvisors.com >http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd >Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com _________________________________________________________________ Is your PC infected? Get a FREE online computer virus scan from McAfee? Security. http://clinic.mcafee.com/clinic/ibuy/campaign.asp?cid=3963 From john at winhaven.net Wed Mar 31 10:15:16 2004 From: john at winhaven.net (John Bartow) Date: Wed, 31 Mar 2004 10:15:16 -0600 Subject: [AccessD] New SQL Question In-Reply-To: <001501c41731$c24b07f0$9111758f@aine> Message-ID: Yes, it sure does! It even adapts to having outgoing messages placed in the outbox until the next scheduled send and receive action rather than sending messages immediately. It sets a time delay for the "brain on" switch to activate exactly 3 seconds after the send action occurs! John -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Martin Reid Sent: Wednesday, March 31, 2004 9:07 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] New SQL Question LOL Seems to be. Once I sent the message I set down again and looked at the problem and the answer was fairly straight forward. Sometimes I think it helps simply by writing down the problem rather than going around and around inside your head with it. Martin ----- Original Message ----- From: "Steven W. Erbach" To: "Access Developers discussion and problem solving" Sent: Wednesday, March 31, 2004 3:58 PM Subject: Re: [AccessD] New SQL Question > Martin, > > >> Thanks Paul we got it worked out after sending the email. << > > As Bryan Carbonnell says, "I think that the send button actually turns brains on." > > Regards, > > Steve Erbach > Scientific Marketing > Neenah, WI > > "You must be an intellectual. No normal person would say a thing like that." - George Orwell > > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From DWUTKA at marlow.com Wed Mar 31 10:22:45 2004 From: DWUTKA at marlow.com (DWUTKA at marlow.com) Date: Wed, 31 Mar 2004 10:22:45 -0600 Subject: [AccessD] OT: A survey from somebody not as well-connected as JC Message-ID: <2F8793082E00D4119A1700B0D0216BF802227A3C@main2.marlow.com> LOL. Rocky, Life has been nothing short of hectic for the last few months. I KNOW you sent me a test to run, but quite frankly, I know I've rebuilt my machine since then, and can't find it. Any way you'll give me another chance to be a beta tester? By the way, and I know this is off topic, but I have an odd 'symptom' I discovered. I've noticed that when I sleep with my CPAP machine, I don't remember my dreams when I wake up. However, when I don't sleep with it, then I can vividly remember my dreams for as long as I want (I can think about them the whole day if I want too). Drew -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Rocky Smolin - Beach Access Software Sent: Wednesday, March 31, 2004 12:07 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] OT: A survey from somebody not as well-connected as JC John: Do you snore? Loudly? Are you very tired upon waking up in the morning? Is you neck circumference over 16 inches? Might you fall asleep while watching TV? Does your wife say you stop breathing or gasp for air while you sleep? Is you body mass index over 26? If you answered yes to any of the above questions you need to be a Sleep Doctor beta tester. Let The Sleep Doctor help. Simply reply to bchacc at san.rr.com and say 'I wanna be a beta tester!'. Operators are standing by... Rocky Smolin Beach Access Software http://www.e-z-mrp.com ----- Original Message ----- From: "John Bartow" To: "Access Developers discussion and problem solving" Sent: Tuesday, March 30, 2004 8:55 PM Subject: RE: [AccessD] OT: A survey from somebody not as well-connected as JC > Good thing my wife doesn't read this or she'd order a copy to analyze me > right now :o) > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Rocky Smolin - > Beach Access Software > Sent: Tuesday, March 30, 2004 10:39 PM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: Re: [AccessD] OT: A survey from somebody not as well-connected > as JC > > > Sure. I estimate it will take to the end of the year before I see any real > results. > > I've got another product cooking as well - analyzes sleep disorders. Been > working on it with an expert in the field for 4-5 years (not continuously, > of course). Might be able to launch it this year. > > Do you want to be a beta tester? > > Rocky > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Kath Pelletti" > To: "Access Developers discussion and problem solving" > > Sent: Tuesday, March 30, 2004 8:23 PM > Subject: Re: [AccessD] OT: A survey from somebody not as well-connected as > JC > > > Well I wish you the very best of luck...can you let us know how the sales > go? > > Kath > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Rocky Smolin - Beach Access Software > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Sent: Wednesday, March 31, 2004 9:42 AM > Subject: Re: [AccessD] OT: A survey from somebody not as well-connected as > JC > > > Kath: > > In the 'old' days when I was flogging this package in DOS, I thought that > some of them would be sold by word of mouth, people seeing it, or the > reports that got passed around (which all had my company name in the > footer). So I always wanted everyone to have the latest version. So I > didn't charge for it. It was in my self-interest to have them use the > most > recent release. And I'm still going to keep to that policy for this new > version. > > If I add a module, like Order Entry, everybody will get it at no cost. > With > distribution by web, there really is no overhead cost to me to distribute > it. And good product sells more product. > > I promote the product support as a 'free phone in consulting service on > any > question related to the software OR manufacturing systems' for the first > year, and $300 a year after that (about 10% of the purchase price). > > In the past I had a lot of conversations with people about manufacturing > issues - how to structure a bill of materials, how to make up a part > numbering scheme, how to solve a particular work order problem, etc - and > very few questions about how to actually run the software. This added a > LOT > of value to the product and didn't really take very much time. > > The key is to make a product which is so user stupid that anybody who can > read and count to 20 can run it. Then you don't get the same question 20 > times a day, like 'how do I run a costed inventory report?'. > > If a user doesn't want to pay the yearly maintenance then they don't get > the > phone support. I could tell them they don't get the new releases as well > but that works against me salewise. Many people didn't pay for the > support > after the first couple of years because they never called me for anything. > > The other key, of course, it goes without saying, is to make the product > so > solid that it doesn't generate bugs and errors. Then you don't get any > support calls. > > BTW - I'm not a marketer or salesy type person, either. But if you have > something you believe in it's not really selling. And I really believe in > this product (why not, I invented it?). I just present the product and if > they like it fine. They buy it. If not, it's like pushing on a string. > > I always wanted people to feel like they got more than they expected and > when you sell hard you overhype, raise expectations, and end up with > customers who expect more than you have to give. > > When people buy E-Z-MRP they feel like they just bought a dollar for fifty > cents. That makes selling a lot easier, too. > > I suppose that's why I'm successful but not rich. :) > > HTH > > Rocky Smolin > Beach Access Software > http://www.e-z-mrp.com > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Kath Pelletti" > To: "Access Developers discussion and problem solving" > > Sent: Tuesday, March 30, 2004 2:59 PM > Subject: Re: [AccessD] OT: A survey from somebody not as well-connected as > JC > > > Rocky - out of interest - what support arrangements / fees are you > offering? > > Kath > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Rocky Smolin - Beach Access Software > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Sent: Wednesday, March 31, 2004 8:48 AM > Subject: Re: [AccessD] OT: A survey from somebody not as well-connected > as > JC > > > Andy: > > Don't envy me. They jury's still out. I've got a bit of a buffer so we > won't miss any meals, but that can't go on forever. I've had two good > products and several bad ones. At least this time I'm starting in an > economy that's on the upswing. > > But I've always been a bootstrap kind of guy - we're doing a mailing in > San > Diego county this month. Hopefully snag two or three systems. Then use > that money to mail again in another county. Build it up slowly. > Instead > of > mortgaging the house. > > I'm still doing some fee-for-service as well. So that keeps some of the > lights on. > > It's a high wire act for sure. But when it does work, it's a thing of > beauty. > > Rocky > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Andy Lacey > > Sent: Tuesday, March 30, 2004 1:18 PM > > To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' > > Subject: RE: [AccessD] OT: A survey from somebody not as > well-connected > > as JC > > > > > > I envy Rocky (sort of) but won't be trying to emulate him. Been there, > tried > > that, and failed. Problem with the product thing is that you have to > > metamorphose from developer into marketer, and I couldn't. Not my > thing > at > > all. Plus IME it involves sinking money into advertising, mailing, > > brochures, websites nd so on. You have to be prepared to risk big > outlay > > against no guarantee of return. Done that 2 or 3 times to great cost > and > no > > great return. Won't be doing it again. > > > > -- Andy Lacey > > http://www.minstersystems.co.uk > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > > > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of > > > Steven W. Erbach > > > Sent: 30 March 2004 04:16 > > > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > > > Subject: Re: [AccessD] OT: A survey from somebody not as > > > well-connected as JC > > > > > > > > > William, > > > > > > >> ...don't take this the wrong way << > > > > > > I won't. I appreciate your point of view. I have gotten > > > caught up in the tools as if owning the right brand of socket > > > wrench will guarantee me a living. > > > > > > But I hear you on the client-centered approach. I've worked > > > on lots of things that were outside of my skill-set comfort zone. > > > > > > I talked with a friend recently about my business and he > > > asked if there was anything I specialized in. I told him no; > > > my business is producing custom solutions to solve customer > > > problems. He recommended a product-centered approach, like > > > what Rocky is aiming for. I have a long-term care facility > > > marketing and donations program I wrote that might fill the > > > bill. We'll see. > > > > > > >> ...but I'm just me and don't have any intention of ever > > > working hard > > > >> again << > > > > > > Not really an option for me as we're having some tough times > > > financially. I can dig the varietal nature of your work, > > > though. Thanks. > > > > > > Regards, > > > > > > Steve Erbach > > > Scientific Marketing > > > Neenah, WI > > > > > > "You must be an intellectual. No normal person would say a > > > thing like that." - George Orwell > > > > > > -- > > > _______________________________________________ > > > AccessD mailing list > > > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/a> ccessd > > > Website: > > > http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > > > > > > > -- > > _______________________________________________ > > AccessD mailing list > > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > > > -- > > _______________________________________________ > > AccessD mailing list > > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From greggs at msn.com Wed Mar 31 10:58:00 2004 From: greggs at msn.com (Gregg) Date: Wed, 31 Mar 2004 10:58:00 -0600 Subject: [AccessD] Compacting A2K In-Reply-To: Message-ID: That's interesting. I have 1.2 GB where the Windows Temp files go and the test file I was using was maybe 10 MB. I have 15 GB on the drive where the database resides. I'm not sure though how Citrix handles all that. Thanks Gary. -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Gary Kjos Sent: Wednesday, March 31, 2004 10:02 AM To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: RE: [AccessD] Compacting A2K >>>>"Cannot find field 'Description'". Error on Compacting A2K<<<< The times I have had this error it's been because I didn't have enough free disk space. You need at least twice the available free space as the size of the oiriginal database. And some of that space si needed on the drive where the Windows Temp files go. Gary Kjos garykjos at hotmail.com >From: "Gregg" >Reply-To: Access Developers discussion and problem >solving >To: "Access Developers discussion and problem >solving" >Subject: RE: [AccessD] Compacting A2K >Date: Wed, 31 Mar 2004 07:03:52 -0600 > > > >Oh yeah... sorry. Office 2K...SP3, Jet... none, NT4...SP6 > >Thanks John! > >-----Original Message----- >From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com >[mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of John W. Colby >Sent: Tuesday, March 30, 2004 9:15 PM >To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving >Subject: RE: [AccessD] Compacting A2K > > >Office Service packs applied? Jet SPs applied? Windows SPs applied? > >John W. Colby >www.ColbyConsulting.com > >-----Original Message----- >From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com >[mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Gregg >Sent: Tuesday, March 30, 2004 10:16 PM >To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving >Subject: [AccessD] Compacting A2K > > >I'm really stumped on this one. > >I have a 2K database that won't compact. It says the temporary database is >in use. Every once in while it will work... maybe 1 out of 20 tries. This >app is running under NT4 and Citrix. > >I opened a new database and imported just the tables and got the same >error. >I have a mixture of SQL and Access linked tables as well as FE tables. I >start removing tables until it begins working but when I add the last >tables >I deleted back in, it still works. It's not consistent. > >When it begins to work I start getting another occasional error. At the end >of the compact process I get an error that says "Cannot find field >'Description'". I do have tables with a field name of description but when >I remove them I still get the error. The Help says it is error 3799. I >can't find anything on it anywhere. > >Also, I can move the app to another machine and it will compact fine at >least until it looks for the SQL links. We rebuilt Citrix and NT OS which >did not help. > >Gregg Steinbrenner > > >-- >_______________________________________________ >AccessD mailing list >AccessD at databaseadvisors.com >http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd >Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > >-- >_______________________________________________ >AccessD mailing list >AccessD at databaseadvisors.com >http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd >Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > >-- >_______________________________________________ >AccessD mailing list >AccessD at databaseadvisors.com >http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd >Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com _________________________________________________________________ Is your PC infected? Get a FREE online computer virus scan from McAfee? Security. http://clinic.mcafee.com/clinic/ibuy/campaign.asp?cid=3963 -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From cfoust at infostatsystems.com Wed Mar 31 10:48:15 2004 From: cfoust at infostatsystems.com (Charlotte Foust) Date: Wed, 31 Mar 2004 08:48:15 -0800 Subject: [AccessD] Lookup Fields in Table Design Message-ID: LOL Well, if you had *seen* my skin, you wouldn't be looking forward to it! Charlotte Foust -----Original Message----- From: William Hindman [mailto:wdhindman at bellsouth.net] Sent: Tuesday, March 30, 2004 6:17 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Lookup Fields in Table Design ...yeah ...but we're all looking forward to seeing you on the skins team :) William Hindman ipsedixitism: something is true because I myself have said it is true ...the philosophy of Noam Chomsky :) ----- Original Message ----- From: "Charlotte Foust" To: "Access Developers discussion and problem solving" Sent: Tuesday, March 30, 2004 2:39 PM Subject: RE: [AccessD] Lookup Fields in Table Design > But bounders and cads is *much* cleverer and we can maintain our > reputation for esoteric knowledge with those teams. > > Charlotte Foust -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From bchacc at san.rr.com Wed Mar 31 10:53:11 2004 From: bchacc at san.rr.com (Rocky Smolin - Beach Access Software) Date: Wed, 31 Mar 2004 08:53:11 -0800 Subject: [AccessD] OT: A survey from somebody not as well-connected as JC References: <2F8793082E00D4119A1700B0D0216BF802227A3C@main2.marlow.com> Message-ID: <079301c41740$a6ff46f0$6601a8c0@HAL9002> Drew: Just tried to send you The Sleep Doctor and got rejected. Is there a better address? The attachment is <1.5MB Rocky Smolin Beach Access Software http://www.e-z-mrp.com ----- The following addresses had permanent fatal errors ----- (reason: 554 : Sender address rejected: Access denied) ----- Transcript of session follows ----- ... while talking to main2.marlow.com.: >>> DATA <<< 554 : Sender address rejected: Access denied 554 5.0.0 Service unavailable <<< 554 Error: no valid recipients ----- Original Message ----- From: To: Sent: Wednesday, March 31, 2004 8:22 AM Subject: RE: [AccessD] OT: A survey from somebody not as well-connected as JC > LOL. Rocky, Life has been nothing short of hectic for the last few months. > I KNOW you sent me a test to run, but quite frankly, I know I've rebuilt my > machine since then, and can't find it. > > Any way you'll give me another chance to be a beta tester? > > By the way, and I know this is off topic, but I have an odd 'symptom' I > discovered. I've noticed that when I sleep with my CPAP machine, I don't > remember my dreams when I wake up. However, when I don't sleep with it, > then I can vividly remember my dreams for as long as I want (I can think > about them the whole day if I want too). > > Drew > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Rocky Smolin - > Beach Access Software > Sent: Wednesday, March 31, 2004 12:07 AM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: Re: [AccessD] OT: A survey from somebody not as well-connected > as JC > > > John: > > Do you snore? Loudly? Are you very tired upon waking up in the morning? > Is you neck circumference over 16 inches? Might you fall asleep while > watching TV? Does your wife say you stop breathing or gasp for air while > you sleep? Is you body mass index over 26? > > If you answered yes to any of the above questions you need to be a Sleep > Doctor beta tester. Let The Sleep Doctor help. Simply reply to > bchacc at san.rr.com and say 'I wanna be a beta tester!'. Operators are > standing by... > > Rocky Smolin > Beach Access Software > http://www.e-z-mrp.com > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "John Bartow" > To: "Access Developers discussion and problem solving" > > Sent: Tuesday, March 30, 2004 8:55 PM > Subject: RE: [AccessD] OT: A survey from somebody not as well-connected as > JC > > > > Good thing my wife doesn't read this or she'd order a copy to analyze me > > right now :o) > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Rocky Smolin - > > Beach Access Software > > Sent: Tuesday, March 30, 2004 10:39 PM > > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > > Subject: Re: [AccessD] OT: A survey from somebody not as well-connected > > as JC > > > > > > Sure. I estimate it will take to the end of the year before I see any > real > > results. > > > > I've got another product cooking as well - analyzes sleep disorders. Been > > working on it with an expert in the field for 4-5 years (not continuously, > > of course). Might be able to launch it this year. > > > > Do you want to be a beta tester? > > > > Rocky > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: "Kath Pelletti" > > To: "Access Developers discussion and problem solving" > > > > Sent: Tuesday, March 30, 2004 8:23 PM > > Subject: Re: [AccessD] OT: A survey from somebody not as well-connected as > > JC > > > > > > Well I wish you the very best of luck...can you let us know how the sales > > go? > > > > Kath > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: Rocky Smolin - Beach Access Software > > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > > Sent: Wednesday, March 31, 2004 9:42 AM > > Subject: Re: [AccessD] OT: A survey from somebody not as well-connected > as > > JC > > > > > > Kath: > > > > In the 'old' days when I was flogging this package in DOS, I thought > that > > some of them would be sold by word of mouth, people seeing it, or the > > reports that got passed around (which all had my company name in the > > footer). So I always wanted everyone to have the latest version. So I > > didn't charge for it. It was in my self-interest to have them use the > > most > > recent release. And I'm still going to keep to that policy for this new > > version. > > > > If I add a module, like Order Entry, everybody will get it at no cost. > > With > > distribution by web, there really is no overhead cost to me to > distribute > > it. And good product sells more product. > > > > I promote the product support as a 'free phone in consulting service on > > any > > question related to the software OR manufacturing systems' for the first > > year, and $300 a year after that (about 10% of the purchase price). > > > > In the past I had a lot of conversations with people about manufacturing > > issues - how to structure a bill of materials, how to make up a part > > numbering scheme, how to solve a particular work order problem, etc - > and > > very few questions about how to actually run the software. This added a > > LOT > > of value to the product and didn't really take very much time. > > > > The key is to make a product which is so user stupid that anybody who > can > > read and count to 20 can run it. Then you don't get the same question > 20 > > times a day, like 'how do I run a costed inventory report?'. > > > > If a user doesn't want to pay the yearly maintenance then they don't get > > the > > phone support. I could tell them they don't get the new releases as > well > > but that works against me salewise. Many people didn't pay for the > > support > > after the first couple of years because they never called me for > anything. > > > > The other key, of course, it goes without saying, is to make the product > > so > > solid that it doesn't generate bugs and errors. Then you don't get any > > support calls. > > > > BTW - I'm not a marketer or salesy type person, either. But if you have > > something you believe in it's not really selling. And I really believe > in > > this product (why not, I invented it?). I just present the product and > if > > they like it fine. They buy it. If not, it's like pushing on a string. > > > > I always wanted people to feel like they got more than they expected and > > when you sell hard you overhype, raise expectations, and end up with > > customers who expect more than you have to give. > > > > When people buy E-Z-MRP they feel like they just bought a dollar for > fifty > > cents. That makes selling a lot easier, too. > > > > I suppose that's why I'm successful but not rich. :) > > > > HTH > > > > Rocky Smolin > > Beach Access Software > > http://www.e-z-mrp.com > > > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: "Kath Pelletti" > > To: "Access Developers discussion and problem solving" > > > > Sent: Tuesday, March 30, 2004 2:59 PM > > Subject: Re: [AccessD] OT: A survey from somebody not as well-connected > as > > JC > > > > > > Rocky - out of interest - what support arrangements / fees are you > > offering? > > > > Kath > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: Rocky Smolin - Beach Access Software > > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > > Sent: Wednesday, March 31, 2004 8:48 AM > > Subject: Re: [AccessD] OT: A survey from somebody not as > well-connected > > as > > JC > > > > > > Andy: > > > > Don't envy me. They jury's still out. I've got a bit of a buffer so > we > > won't miss any meals, but that can't go on forever. I've had two good > > products and several bad ones. At least this time I'm starting in an > > economy that's on the upswing. > > > > But I've always been a bootstrap kind of guy - we're doing a mailing > in > > San > > Diego county this month. Hopefully snag two or three systems. Then > use > > that money to mail again in another county. Build it up slowly. > > Instead > > of > > mortgaging the house. > > > > I'm still doing some fee-for-service as well. So that keeps some of > the > > lights on. > > > > It's a high wire act for sure. But when it does work, it's a thing of > > beauty. > > > > Rocky > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > > > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Andy Lacey > > > Sent: Tuesday, March 30, 2004 1:18 PM > > > To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' > > > Subject: RE: [AccessD] OT: A survey from somebody not as > > well-connected > > > as JC > > > > > > > > > I envy Rocky (sort of) but won't be trying to emulate him. Been > there, > > tried > > > that, and failed. Problem with the product thing is that you have to > > > metamorphose from developer into marketer, and I couldn't. Not my > > thing > > at > > > all. Plus IME it involves sinking money into advertising, mailing, > > > brochures, websites nd so on. You have to be prepared to risk big > > outlay > > > against no guarantee of return. Done that 2 or 3 times to great cost > > and > > no > > > great return. Won't be doing it again. > > > > > > -- Andy Lacey > > > http://www.minstersystems.co.uk > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > > > > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of > > > > Steven W. Erbach > > > > Sent: 30 March 2004 04:16 > > > > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > > > > Subject: Re: [AccessD] OT: A survey from somebody not as > > > > well-connected as JC > > > > > > > > > > > > William, > > > > > > > > >> ...don't take this the wrong way << > > > > > > > > I won't. I appreciate your point of view. I have gotten > > > > caught up in the tools as if owning the right brand of socket > > > > wrench will guarantee me a living. > > > > > > > > But I hear you on the client-centered approach. I've worked > > > > on lots of things that were outside of my skill-set comfort zone. > > > > > > > > I talked with a friend recently about my business and he > > > > asked if there was anything I specialized in. I told him no; > > > > my business is producing custom solutions to solve customer > > > > problems. He recommended a product-centered approach, like > > > > what Rocky is aiming for. I have a long-term care facility > > > > marketing and donations program I wrote that might fill the > > > > bill. We'll see. > > > > > > > > >> ...but I'm just me and don't have any intention of ever > > > > working hard > > > > >> again << > > > > > > > > Not really an option for me as we're having some tough times > > > > financially. I can dig the varietal nature of your work, > > > > though. Thanks. > > > > > > > > Regards, > > > > > > > > Steve Erbach > > > > Scientific Marketing > > > > Neenah, WI > > > > > > > > "You must be an intellectual. No normal person would say a > > > > thing like that." - George Orwell > > > > > > > > -- > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > > AccessD mailing list > > > > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/a> ccessd > > > > Website: > > > > http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -- > > > _______________________________________________ > > > AccessD mailing list > > > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > > > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > > > > > > -- > > > _______________________________________________ > > > AccessD mailing list > > > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > > > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > > > > -- > > _______________________________________________ > > AccessD mailing list > > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > -- > > _______________________________________________ > > AccessD mailing list > > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > -- > > _______________________________________________ > > AccessD mailing list > > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > -- > > _______________________________________________ > > AccessD mailing list > > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > -- > > _______________________________________________ > > AccessD mailing list > > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > > > > > -- > > _______________________________________________ > > AccessD mailing list > > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > From DWUTKA at marlow.com Wed Mar 31 11:00:50 2004 From: DWUTKA at marlow.com (DWUTKA at marlow.com) Date: Wed, 31 Mar 2004 11:00:50 -0600 Subject: [AccessD] OT: A survey from somebody not as well-connected as JC Message-ID: <2F8793082E00D4119A1700B0D0216BF802227A44@main2.marlow.com> Did you send it to dwutka at marlow.com ? I should be able to handle 1.5 megs (have 10 megs left in my mailbox) Drew -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Rocky Smolin - Beach Access Software Sent: Wednesday, March 31, 2004 10:53 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] OT: A survey from somebody not as well-connected as JC Drew: Just tried to send you The Sleep Doctor and got rejected. Is there a better address? The attachment is <1.5MB Rocky Smolin Beach Access Software http://www.e-z-mrp.com ----- The following addresses had permanent fatal errors ----- (reason: 554 : Sender address rejected: Access denied) ----- Transcript of session follows ----- ... while talking to main2.marlow.com.: >>> DATA <<< 554 : Sender address rejected: Access denied 554 5.0.0 Service unavailable <<< 554 Error: no valid recipients ----- Original Message ----- From: To: Sent: Wednesday, March 31, 2004 8:22 AM Subject: RE: [AccessD] OT: A survey from somebody not as well-connected as JC > LOL. Rocky, Life has been nothing short of hectic for the last few months. > I KNOW you sent me a test to run, but quite frankly, I know I've rebuilt my > machine since then, and can't find it. > > Any way you'll give me another chance to be a beta tester? > > By the way, and I know this is off topic, but I have an odd 'symptom' I > discovered. I've noticed that when I sleep with my CPAP machine, I don't > remember my dreams when I wake up. However, when I don't sleep with it, > then I can vividly remember my dreams for as long as I want (I can think > about them the whole day if I want too). > > Drew > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Rocky Smolin - > Beach Access Software > Sent: Wednesday, March 31, 2004 12:07 AM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: Re: [AccessD] OT: A survey from somebody not as well-connected > as JC > > > John: > > Do you snore? Loudly? Are you very tired upon waking up in the morning? > Is you neck circumference over 16 inches? Might you fall asleep while > watching TV? Does your wife say you stop breathing or gasp for air while > you sleep? Is you body mass index over 26? > > If you answered yes to any of the above questions you need to be a Sleep > Doctor beta tester. Let The Sleep Doctor help. Simply reply to > bchacc at san.rr.com and say 'I wanna be a beta tester!'. Operators are > standing by... > > Rocky Smolin > Beach Access Software > http://www.e-z-mrp.com > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "John Bartow" > To: "Access Developers discussion and problem solving" > > Sent: Tuesday, March 30, 2004 8:55 PM > Subject: RE: [AccessD] OT: A survey from somebody not as well-connected as > JC > > > > Good thing my wife doesn't read this or she'd order a copy to analyze me > > right now :o) > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Rocky Smolin - > > Beach Access Software > > Sent: Tuesday, March 30, 2004 10:39 PM > > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > > Subject: Re: [AccessD] OT: A survey from somebody not as well-connected > > as JC > > > > > > Sure. I estimate it will take to the end of the year before I see any > real > > results. > > > > I've got another product cooking as well - analyzes sleep disorders. Been > > working on it with an expert in the field for 4-5 years (not continuously, > > of course). Might be able to launch it this year. > > > > Do you want to be a beta tester? > > > > Rocky > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: "Kath Pelletti" > > To: "Access Developers discussion and problem solving" > > > > Sent: Tuesday, March 30, 2004 8:23 PM > > Subject: Re: [AccessD] OT: A survey from somebody not as well-connected as > > JC > > > > > > Well I wish you the very best of luck...can you let us know how the sales > > go? > > > > Kath > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: Rocky Smolin - Beach Access Software > > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > > Sent: Wednesday, March 31, 2004 9:42 AM > > Subject: Re: [AccessD] OT: A survey from somebody not as well-connected > as > > JC > > > > > > Kath: > > > > In the 'old' days when I was flogging this package in DOS, I thought > that > > some of them would be sold by word of mouth, people seeing it, or the > > reports that got passed around (which all had my company name in the > > footer). So I always wanted everyone to have the latest version. So I > > didn't charge for it. It was in my self-interest to have them use the > > most > > recent release. And I'm still going to keep to that policy for this new > > version. > > > > If I add a module, like Order Entry, everybody will get it at no cost. > > With > > distribution by web, there really is no overhead cost to me to > distribute > > it. And good product sells more product. > > > > I promote the product support as a 'free phone in consulting service on > > any > > question related to the software OR manufacturing systems' for the first > > year, and $300 a year after that (about 10% of the purchase price). > > > > In the past I had a lot of conversations with people about manufacturing > > issues - how to structure a bill of materials, how to make up a part > > numbering scheme, how to solve a particular work order problem, etc - > and > > very few questions about how to actually run the software. This added a > > LOT > > of value to the product and didn't really take very much time. > > > > The key is to make a product which is so user stupid that anybody who > can > > read and count to 20 can run it. Then you don't get the same question > 20 > > times a day, like 'how do I run a costed inventory report?'. > > > > If a user doesn't want to pay the yearly maintenance then they don't get > > the > > phone support. I could tell them they don't get the new releases as > well > > but that works against me salewise. Many people didn't pay for the > > support > > after the first couple of years because they never called me for > anything. > > > > The other key, of course, it goes without saying, is to make the product > > so > > solid that it doesn't generate bugs and errors. Then you don't get any > > support calls. > > > > BTW - I'm not a marketer or salesy type person, either. But if you have > > something you believe in it's not really selling. And I really believe > in > > this product (why not, I invented it?). I just present the product and > if > > they like it fine. They buy it. If not, it's like pushing on a string. > > > > I always wanted people to feel like they got more than they expected and > > when you sell hard you overhype, raise expectations, and end up with > > customers who expect more than you have to give. > > > > When people buy E-Z-MRP they feel like they just bought a dollar for > fifty > > cents. That makes selling a lot easier, too. > > > > I suppose that's why I'm successful but not rich. :) > > > > HTH > > > > Rocky Smolin > > Beach Access Software > > http://www.e-z-mrp.com > > > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: "Kath Pelletti" > > To: "Access Developers discussion and problem solving" > > > > Sent: Tuesday, March 30, 2004 2:59 PM > > Subject: Re: [AccessD] OT: A survey from somebody not as well-connected > as > > JC > > > > > > Rocky - out of interest - what support arrangements / fees are you > > offering? > > > > Kath > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: Rocky Smolin - Beach Access Software > > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > > Sent: Wednesday, March 31, 2004 8:48 AM > > Subject: Re: [AccessD] OT: A survey from somebody not as > well-connected > > as > > JC > > > > > > Andy: > > > > Don't envy me. They jury's still out. I've got a bit of a buffer so > we > > won't miss any meals, but that can't go on forever. I've had two good > > products and several bad ones. At least this time I'm starting in an > > economy that's on the upswing. > > > > But I've always been a bootstrap kind of guy - we're doing a mailing > in > > San > > Diego county this month. Hopefully snag two or three systems. Then > use > > that money to mail again in another county. Build it up slowly. > > Instead > > of > > mortgaging the house. > > > > I'm still doing some fee-for-service as well. So that keeps some of > the > > lights on. > > > > It's a high wire act for sure. But when it does work, it's a thing of > > beauty. > > > > Rocky > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > > > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Andy Lacey > > > Sent: Tuesday, March 30, 2004 1:18 PM > > > To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' > > > Subject: RE: [AccessD] OT: A survey from somebody not as > > well-connected > > > as JC > > > > > > > > > I envy Rocky (sort of) but won't be trying to emulate him. Been > there, > > tried > > > that, and failed. Problem with the product thing is that you have to > > > metamorphose from developer into marketer, and I couldn't. Not my > > thing > > at > > > all. Plus IME it involves sinking money into advertising, mailing, > > > brochures, websites nd so on. You have to be prepared to risk big > > outlay > > > against no guarantee of return. Done that 2 or 3 times to great cost > > and > > no > > > great return. Won't be doing it again. > > > > > > -- Andy Lacey > > > http://www.minstersystems.co.uk > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > > > > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of > > > > Steven W. Erbach > > > > Sent: 30 March 2004 04:16 > > > > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > > > > Subject: Re: [AccessD] OT: A survey from somebody not as > > > > well-connected as JC > > > > > > > > > > > > William, > > > > > > > > >> ...don't take this the wrong way << > > > > > > > > I won't. I appreciate your point of view. I have gotten > > > > caught up in the tools as if owning the right brand of socket > > > > wrench will guarantee me a living. > > > > > > > > But I hear you on the client-centered approach. I've worked > > > > on lots of things that were outside of my skill-set comfort zone. > > > > > > > > I talked with a friend recently about my business and he > > > > asked if there was anything I specialized in. I told him no; > > > > my business is producing custom solutions to solve customer > > > > problems. He recommended a product-centered approach, like > > > > what Rocky is aiming for. I have a long-term care facility > > > > marketing and donations program I wrote that might fill the > > > > bill. We'll see. > > > > > > > > >> ...but I'm just me and don't have any intention of ever > > > > working hard > > > > >> again << > > > > > > > > Not really an option for me as we're having some tough times > > > > financially. I can dig the varietal nature of your work, > > > > though. Thanks. > > > > > > > > Regards, > > > > > > > > Steve Erbach > > > > Scientific Marketing > > > > Neenah, WI > > > > > > > > "You must be an intellectual. No normal person would say a > > > > thing like that." - George Orwell > > > > > > > > -- > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > > AccessD mailing list > > > > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/a> ccessd > > > > Website: > > > > http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -- > > > _______________________________________________ > > > AccessD mailing list > > > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > > > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > > > > > > -- > > > _______________________________________________ > > > AccessD mailing list > > > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > > > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > > > > -- > > _______________________________________________ > > AccessD mailing list > > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > -- > > _______________________________________________ > > AccessD mailing list > > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > -- > > _______________________________________________ > > AccessD mailing list > > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > -- > > _______________________________________________ > > AccessD mailing list > > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > -- > > _______________________________________________ > > AccessD mailing list > > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > > > > > -- > > _______________________________________________ > > AccessD mailing list > > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From bchacc at san.rr.com Wed Mar 31 11:28:13 2004 From: bchacc at san.rr.com (Rocky Smolin - Beach Access Software) Date: Wed, 31 Mar 2004 09:28:13 -0800 Subject: [AccessD] OT: A survey from somebody not as well-connected as JC References: <2F8793082E00D4119A1700B0D0216BF802227A44@main2.marlow.com> Message-ID: <07bf01c41745$8bc65630$6601a8c0@HAL9002> Yeah. But the address I got from the email was uppercase DWUTKA as you can see in the FROM line below and in your email it's lower case. Shouldn't make a difference but I just re-sent it to the lower case address. Stand by... Rocky ----- Original Message ----- From: To: Sent: Wednesday, March 31, 2004 9:00 AM Subject: RE: [AccessD] OT: A survey from somebody not as well-connected as JC > Did you send it to dwutka at marlow.com ? I should be able to handle 1.5 megs > (have 10 megs left in my mailbox) > > Drew > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Rocky Smolin - > Beach Access Software > Sent: Wednesday, March 31, 2004 10:53 AM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: Re: [AccessD] OT: A survey from somebody not as well-connected > as JC > > > Drew: > > Just tried to send you The Sleep Doctor and got rejected. Is there a better > address? The attachment is <1.5MB > > Rocky Smolin > Beach Access Software > http://www.e-z-mrp.com > > > > ----- The following addresses had permanent fatal errors ----- > > (reason: 554 : Sender address rejected: Access > denied) > > ----- Transcript of session follows ----- > ... while talking to main2.marlow.com.: > >>> DATA > <<< 554 : Sender address rejected: Access denied > 554 5.0.0 Service unavailable > <<< 554 Error: no valid recipients > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: > To: > Sent: Wednesday, March 31, 2004 8:22 AM > Subject: RE: [AccessD] OT: A survey from somebody not as well-connected as > JC > > > > LOL. Rocky, Life has been nothing short of hectic for the last few > months. > > I KNOW you sent me a test to run, but quite frankly, I know I've rebuilt > my > > machine since then, and can't find it. > > > > Any way you'll give me another chance to be a beta tester? > > > > By the way, and I know this is off topic, but I have an odd 'symptom' I > > discovered. I've noticed that when I sleep with my CPAP machine, I don't > > remember my dreams when I wake up. However, when I don't sleep with it, > > then I can vividly remember my dreams for as long as I want (I can think > > about them the whole day if I want too). > > > > Drew > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Rocky Smolin - > > Beach Access Software > > Sent: Wednesday, March 31, 2004 12:07 AM > > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > > Subject: Re: [AccessD] OT: A survey from somebody not as well-connected > > as JC > > > > > > John: > > > > Do you snore? Loudly? Are you very tired upon waking up in the morning? > > Is you neck circumference over 16 inches? Might you fall asleep while > > watching TV? Does your wife say you stop breathing or gasp for air while > > you sleep? Is you body mass index over 26? > > > > If you answered yes to any of the above questions you need to be a Sleep > > Doctor beta tester. Let The Sleep Doctor help. Simply reply to > > bchacc at san.rr.com and say 'I wanna be a beta tester!'. Operators are > > standing by... > > > > Rocky Smolin > > Beach Access Software > > http://www.e-z-mrp.com > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: "John Bartow" > > To: "Access Developers discussion and problem solving" > > > > Sent: Tuesday, March 30, 2004 8:55 PM > > Subject: RE: [AccessD] OT: A survey from somebody not as well-connected as > > JC > > > > > > > Good thing my wife doesn't read this or she'd order a copy to analyze me > > > right now :o) > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > > > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Rocky Smolin - > > > Beach Access Software > > > Sent: Tuesday, March 30, 2004 10:39 PM > > > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > > > Subject: Re: [AccessD] OT: A survey from somebody not as well-connected > > > as JC > > > > > > > > > Sure. I estimate it will take to the end of the year before I see any > > real > > > results. > > > > > > I've got another product cooking as well - analyzes sleep disorders. > Been > > > working on it with an expert in the field for 4-5 years (not > continuously, > > > of course). Might be able to launch it this year. > > > > > > Do you want to be a beta tester? > > > > > > Rocky > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > From: "Kath Pelletti" > > > To: "Access Developers discussion and problem solving" > > > > > > Sent: Tuesday, March 30, 2004 8:23 PM > > > Subject: Re: [AccessD] OT: A survey from somebody not as well-connected > as > > > JC > > > > > > > > > Well I wish you the very best of luck...can you let us know how the > sales > > > go? > > > > > > Kath > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > From: Rocky Smolin - Beach Access Software > > > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > > > Sent: Wednesday, March 31, 2004 9:42 AM > > > Subject: Re: [AccessD] OT: A survey from somebody not as > well-connected > > as > > > JC > > > > > > > > > Kath: > > > > > > In the 'old' days when I was flogging this package in DOS, I thought > > that > > > some of them would be sold by word of mouth, people seeing it, or the > > > reports that got passed around (which all had my company name in the > > > footer). So I always wanted everyone to have the latest version. So > I > > > didn't charge for it. It was in my self-interest to have them use the > > > most > > > recent release. And I'm still going to keep to that policy for this > new > > > version. > > > > > > If I add a module, like Order Entry, everybody will get it at no cost. > > > With > > > distribution by web, there really is no overhead cost to me to > > distribute > > > it. And good product sells more product. > > > > > > I promote the product support as a 'free phone in consulting service > on > > > any > > > question related to the software OR manufacturing systems' for the > first > > > year, and $300 a year after that (about 10% of the purchase price). > > > > > > In the past I had a lot of conversations with people about > manufacturing > > > issues - how to structure a bill of materials, how to make up a part > > > numbering scheme, how to solve a particular work order problem, etc - > > and > > > very few questions about how to actually run the software. This added > a > > > LOT > > > of value to the product and didn't really take very much time. > > > > > > The key is to make a product which is so user stupid that anybody who > > can > > > read and count to 20 can run it. Then you don't get the same question > > 20 > > > times a day, like 'how do I run a costed inventory report?'. > > > > > > If a user doesn't want to pay the yearly maintenance then they don't > get > > > the > > > phone support. I could tell them they don't get the new releases as > > well > > > but that works against me salewise. Many people didn't pay for the > > > support > > > after the first couple of years because they never called me for > > anything. > > > > > > The other key, of course, it goes without saying, is to make the > product > > > so > > > solid that it doesn't generate bugs and errors. Then you don't get > any > > > support calls. > > > > > > BTW - I'm not a marketer or salesy type person, either. But if you > have > > > something you believe in it's not really selling. And I really > believe > > in > > > this product (why not, I invented it?). I just present the product > and > > if > > > they like it fine. They buy it. If not, it's like pushing on a > string. > > > > > > I always wanted people to feel like they got more than they expected > and > > > when you sell hard you overhype, raise expectations, and end up with > > > customers who expect more than you have to give. > > > > > > When people buy E-Z-MRP they feel like they just bought a dollar for > > fifty > > > cents. That makes selling a lot easier, too. > > > > > > I suppose that's why I'm successful but not rich. :) > > > > > > HTH > > > > > > Rocky Smolin > > > Beach Access Software > > > http://www.e-z-mrp.com > > > > > > > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > From: "Kath Pelletti" > > > To: "Access Developers discussion and problem solving" > > > > > > Sent: Tuesday, March 30, 2004 2:59 PM > > > Subject: Re: [AccessD] OT: A survey from somebody not as > well-connected > > as > > > JC > > > > > > > > > Rocky - out of interest - what support arrangements / fees are you > > > offering? > > > > > > Kath > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > From: Rocky Smolin - Beach Access Software > > > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > > > Sent: Wednesday, March 31, 2004 8:48 AM > > > Subject: Re: [AccessD] OT: A survey from somebody not as > > well-connected > > > as > > > JC > > > > > > > > > Andy: > > > > > > Don't envy me. They jury's still out. I've got a bit of a buffer so > > we > > > won't miss any meals, but that can't go on forever. I've had two > good > > > products and several bad ones. At least this time I'm starting in > an > > > economy that's on the upswing. > > > > > > But I've always been a bootstrap kind of guy - we're doing a mailing > > in > > > San > > > Diego county this month. Hopefully snag two or three systems. Then > > use > > > that money to mail again in another county. Build it up slowly. > > > Instead > > > of > > > mortgaging the house. > > > > > > I'm still doing some fee-for-service as well. So that keeps some of > > the > > > lights on. > > > > > > It's a high wire act for sure. But when it does work, it's a thing > of > > > beauty. > > > > > > Rocky > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > > > > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Andy > Lacey > > > > Sent: Tuesday, March 30, 2004 1:18 PM > > > > To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' > > > > Subject: RE: [AccessD] OT: A survey from somebody not as > > > well-connected > > > > as JC > > > > > > > > > > > > I envy Rocky (sort of) but won't be trying to emulate him. Been > > there, > > > tried > > > > that, and failed. Problem with the product thing is that you have > to > > > > metamorphose from developer into marketer, and I couldn't. Not my > > > thing > > > at > > > > all. Plus IME it involves sinking money into advertising, mailing, > > > > brochures, websites nd so on. You have to be prepared to risk big > > > outlay > > > > against no guarantee of return. Done that 2 or 3 times to great > cost > > > and > > > no > > > > great return. Won't be doing it again. > > > > > > > > -- Andy Lacey > > > > http://www.minstersystems.co.uk > > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > > > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > > > > > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of > > > > > Steven W. Erbach > > > > > Sent: 30 March 2004 04:16 > > > > > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > > > > > Subject: Re: [AccessD] OT: A survey from somebody not as > > > > > well-connected as JC > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > William, > > > > > > > > > > >> ...don't take this the wrong way << > > > > > > > > > > I won't. I appreciate your point of view. I have gotten > > > > > caught up in the tools as if owning the right brand of socket > > > > > wrench will guarantee me a living. > > > > > > > > > > But I hear you on the client-centered approach. I've worked > > > > > on lots of things that were outside of my skill-set comfort > zone. > > > > > > > > > > I talked with a friend recently about my business and he > > > > > asked if there was anything I specialized in. I told him no; > > > > > my business is producing custom solutions to solve customer > > > > > problems. He recommended a product-centered approach, like > > > > > what Rocky is aiming for. I have a long-term care facility > > > > > marketing and donations program I wrote that might fill the > > > > > bill. We'll see. > > > > > > > > > > >> ...but I'm just me and don't have any intention of ever > > > > > working hard > > > > > >> again << > > > > > > > > > > Not really an option for me as we're having some tough times > > > > > financially. I can dig the varietal nature of your work, > > > > > though. Thanks. > > > > > > > > > > Regards, > > > > > > > > > > Steve Erbach > > > > > Scientific Marketing > > > > > Neenah, WI > > > > > > > > > > "You must be an intellectual. No normal person would say a > > > > > thing like that." - George Orwell > > > > > > > > > > -- > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > > > AccessD mailing list > > > > > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > > > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/a> ccessd > > > > > Website: > > > > > http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -- > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > > AccessD mailing list > > > > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > > > > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > > > > > > > > > -- > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > > AccessD mailing list > > > > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > > > > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > > > > > > > -- > > > _______________________________________________ > > > AccessD mailing list > > > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > > > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > -- > > > _______________________________________________ > > > AccessD mailing list > > > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > > > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > > > -- > > > _______________________________________________ > > > AccessD mailing list > > > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > > > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > -- > > > _______________________________________________ > > > AccessD mailing list > > > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > > > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > > > -- > > > _______________________________________________ > > > AccessD mailing list > > > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > > > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > > > > > > > > > -- > > > _______________________________________________ > > > AccessD mailing list > > > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > > > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > > > > -- > > _______________________________________________ > > AccessD mailing list > > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > -- > > _______________________________________________ > > AccessD mailing list > > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > From clh at christopherhawkins.com Wed Mar 31 11:34:00 2004 From: clh at christopherhawkins.com (Christopher Hawkins) Date: Wed, 31 Mar 2004 10:34:00 -0700 Subject: [AccessD] Needed: GetBusinessDays(Date1, Date2) Message-ID: <40350-22004333117340226@christopherhawkins.com> I am utterly shocked that a Google search on GetBusinessDays turned up squat. Anyways, I need an Access VBA function that will return the number of business days (Mon - Fri) between two dates. I know this is the type of stuff that's supposed to be all over the net, but I am finding nothing. Heeeeeeeeeeelp... -Christoher Hawkins- From carbonnb at sympatico.ca Wed Mar 31 11:51:24 2004 From: carbonnb at sympatico.ca (Bryan Carbonnell) Date: Wed, 31 Mar 2004 12:51:24 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Needed: GetBusinessDays(Date1, Date2) Message-ID: <20040331175124.FILL6424.tomts31-srv.bellnexxia.net@smtp.bellnexxia.net> > From: "Christopher Hawkins" > I am utterly shocked that a Google search on GetBusinessDays turned > up squat. > > Anyways, I need an Access VBA function that will return the number of > business days (Mon - Fri) between two dates. I know this is the type > of stuff that's supposed to be all over the net, but I am finding > nothing. > > Heeeeeeeeeeelp... Try NetWorkDays or GetWorkDays. On a quick peruse of the google results, most of the top hits are Excel examples. -- Bryan Carbonnell - carbonnb at sympatico.ca Unfortunately common sense isn't so common! From gustav at cactus.dk Wed Mar 31 11:52:22 2004 From: gustav at cactus.dk (Gustav Brock) Date: Wed, 31 Mar 2004 19:52:22 +0200 Subject: [AccessD] Needed: GetBusinessDays(Date1, Date2) In-Reply-To: <40350-22004333117340226@christopherhawkins.com> References: <40350-22004333117340226@christopherhawkins.com> Message-ID: <12539823102.20040331195222@cactus.dk> Hi Christopher > I am utterly shocked that a Google search on GetBusinessDays turned > up squat. > Anyways, I need an Access VBA function that will return the number of > business days (Mon - Fri) between two dates. I know this is the type > of stuff that's supposed to be all over the net, but I am finding > nothing. There are not so many around and some of them simply browse each and every day in the interval to check if it's a business day ... I've posted this function several times but I can't remember the old subjects so here it is again: Public Function ISO_WorkdayDiff(ByVal datDateFrom As Date, ByVal datDateTo As Date) As Long ' Purpose: Calculate number of working days between dates datDateFrom and datDateTo. ' Assumes: 5 or 6 working days per week. Weekend is (Saturday and) Sunday. ' Limitation: Does not count for public holidays. ' May be freely used and distributed. ' 1999-04-23. Gustav Brock, Cactus Data ApS, Copenhagen ' 2000-10-03. Constants added. ' Option for 5 or 6 working days per week added. Const cbytWorkdaysOfWeek As Byte = 5 Dim bytSunday As Byte Dim intWeekdayDateFrom As Integer Dim intWeekdayDateTo As Integer Dim lngDays As Long Dim datDateTemp As Date ' Reverse dates if these have been input reversed. If datDateFrom > datDateTo Then datDateTemp = datDateFrom datDateFrom = datDateTo datDateTo = datDateTemp End If ' Find ISO weekday for Sunday. bytSunday = WeekDay(vbSunday, vbMonday) ' Find weekdays for the dates. intWeekdayDateFrom = WeekDay(datDateFrom, vbMonday) intWeekdayDateTo = WeekDay(datDateTo, vbMonday) ' Compensate weekdays' value for non-working days (weekends). intWeekdayDateFrom = intWeekdayDateFrom + (intWeekdayDateFrom = bytSunday) intWeekdayDateTo = intWeekdayDateTo + (intWeekdayDateTo = bytSunday) ' Calculate number of working days between the two weekdays, ignoring number of weeks. lngDays = intWeekdayDateTo - intWeekdayDateFrom - (cbytWorkdaysOfWeek * (intWeekdayDateTo < intWeekdayDateFrom)) ' Add number of working days between the weeks of the two dates. lngDays = lngDays + (cbytWorkdaysOfWeek * DateDiff("w", datDateFrom, datDateTo, vbMonday, vbFirstFourDays)) ISO_WorkdayDiff = lngDays End Function Have fun! /gustav From JRojas at tnco-inc.com Wed Mar 31 11:56:55 2004 From: JRojas at tnco-inc.com (Joe Rojas) Date: Wed, 31 Mar 2004 12:56:55 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Needed: GetBusinessDays(Date1, Date2) Message-ID: <806536912C472E4A9D6515DF2E57261E23977C@mercury.tnco-inc.com> Don't know if it is the most efficient or even if I wrote it. :) Public Function CalcWorkDays(Start As Date, Optional Finish As Date) As Integer Dim NumOfDays As Long Dim NumOfWorkDays As Integer Dim DayNum As Integer If Finish = #12:00:00 AM# Then Finish = Date NumOfDays = DateDiff("d", Start, Finish) NumOfWorkDays = 0 For i = 1 To NumOfDays DayNum = Weekday(Start + i) If (DayNum <> 1 And DayNum <> 7) Then NumOfWorkDays = NumOfWorkDays + 1 Next CalcWorkDays = NumOfWorkDays End Function JR -----Original Message----- From: Christopher Hawkins [mailto:clh at christopherhawkins.com] Sent: Wednesday, March 31, 2004 12:34 PM To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: [AccessD] Needed: GetBusinessDays(Date1, Date2) I am utterly shocked that a Google search on GetBusinessDays turned up squat. Anyways, I need an Access VBA function that will return the number of business days (Mon - Fri) between two dates. I know this is the type of stuff that's supposed to be all over the net, but I am finding nothing. Heeeeeeeeeeelp... -Christoher Hawkins- -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com This electronic transmission is strictly confidential to TNCO, Inc. and intended solely for the addressee. It may contain information which is covered by legal, professional, or other privileges. If you are not the intended addressee, or someone authorized by the intended addressee to receive transmissions on behalf of the addressee, you must not retain, disclose in any form, copy, or take any action in reliance on this transmission. 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From martyconnelly at shaw.ca Wed Mar 31 12:36:06 2004 From: martyconnelly at shaw.ca (MartyConnelly) Date: Wed, 31 Mar 2004 10:36:06 -0800 Subject: [AccessD] Info: Microsoft Service Pack 6 for Visual Basic 6.0, Visual C++ 6.0 released References: Message-ID: <406B0F96.9090002@shaw.ca> Microsoft Service Pack 6 for Visual Basic 6.0, Visual C++ 6.0 enduser runtime download Service Pack 6 for Visual Basic 6.0: Run-Time Redistribution Pack (vbrun60sp6.exe) http://www.microsoft.com/downloads/details.aspx?FamilyID=7b9ba261-7a9c-43e7-9117-f673077ffb3c&DisplayLang=en Visual Studio 6.0 Service Pack 6 Description and Visual Studio VB & Visual C++ downloads http://msdn.microsoft.com/vstudio/downloads/updates/sp/vs6/sp6/default.aspx -- Marty Connelly Victoria, B.C. Canada From ssharkins at bellsouth.net Wed Mar 31 13:14:41 2004 From: ssharkins at bellsouth.net (Susan Harkins) Date: Wed, 31 Mar 2004 14:14:41 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Needed: GetBusinessDays(Date1, Date2) In-Reply-To: <40350-22004333117340226@christopherhawkins.com> Message-ID: <20040331191440.VIVD1715.imf16aec.mail.bellsouth.net@SUSANONE> http://www.elementkjournals.com/premier/showArticle.asp?origSearchTerm=busin ess%20days&aid=13136 Unless you've got a sub, you can't get in though -- I don't usually do this, but I couldn't find your email in the message header anywhere to send this to you privately. Susan H. Don't get caught by surprise-calculate business days available to meet a deadline by Susan Sales Harkins and Doris Manning Application(s): Microsoft Access 97/2000/2002 Operating System(s): Download: http://download.elementkjournals.com/access/200402/busdays.zip Knowing the exact number of business days between two dates can be critical. Certainly, it's one of those times when almost right isn't enough. An accurate count can mean realizing an investment or bringing a project in on time, so you need precision, not estimates. You may already have a function that accurately returns the number of business days. However, it may be a tad slow if it uses a loop to determine whether every day in the time period is a weekday or a weekend day. If that's the case, you might want a faster performing function. In this article, we'll show you a function that accommodates holidays and quickly returns the exact number of business days between two dates because there's no loop to slow things down. Note: When we refer to work or business days in relation to our function, we mean a standard Monday through Friday workweek-if your workweek includes Saturday and Sunday, this function won't work for you. Improving working conditions The last thing you need is more work, but that's exactly what you'll get if you're guessing at the number of workdays that you have to finish a project. Our technique includes three objects: a simple table for storing your holidays, a form that you'll use to enter both anchor dates, and one module. By anchor dates, we mean the first and last dates in any given time period for which you want to return just the business days, excluding weekend days and holidays. First, we'll create the table and enter the holidays you want to exclude from the count. Then, we'll create a simple form that accepts two dates and returns the exact number of business days between the two dates-minus any holidays that may fall within the timeframe. In the final step, we'll open a standard module and enter the function procedure that calculates the business days. Setting it up The first thing you need is a simple table to store holidays. Create a new table named tblHolidays. The table needs two fields: HolidayDate (a Date/Time field) and HolidayDescription (a text field). (You can set a primary key if you like, but one isn't required for this technique.) We'll work with the small table of selected United States holidays shown in Figure A. You can enter other holidays, but your results may differ from ours. Figure A: Store a year's worth of holiday dates in the tblHolidays table. As you enter your own dates, don't include holidays that fall on a Saturday or Sunday, since the function excludes all weekend days. For instance, July 4 falls on a Sunday in 2004. However, if your organization compensates for such holidays by closing on the previous Friday or following Monday, you'll want to include that date. Likewise, if you take off the Friday following the Thanksgiving holiday, allow for both days. Use the form shown in Figure B to pass two values to a function procedure that performs the actual calculations. To create the form, open a blank form and add three text box controls, a command button, and two label controls, using Figure B as a guide. Note that since the label controls to the right of the textbox controls are initially blank, you must enter a few space characters in them. These labels really aren't critical to the success of the function, but they'll display the day of the week for both of the two anchor dates. Set the control captions as shown in Figure B, and then refer to Table A for the remaining form and control properties. Finally, save the form as frmBusinessDays. Figure B: Use this form to gather and then pass both anchor dates to the function procedure that returns the number of business days between the dates. Table A: Form and control properties Object Property Setting Form Caption Calculate Business Days Scroll Bars Neither Record Selectors No Navigation Buttons No Textbox Name txtStart Format ShortDate Textbox Name txtEnd Format ShortDate Command Button Name cmdCalculate Caption Calculate Textbox Name txtBusinessDays Label Name lblStart Label Name lblEnd Now, you're ready to enter the code that runs the form. To do so, click the Code button on the Form Design toolbar to launch the Visual Basic Editor (VBE). Enter the event procedures shown in Listing A, and then close the VBE. Save the form and close it. Listing A: Control event procedures Private Sub cmdCalculate_Click() Dim dteStart As Date Dim dteEnd As Date If IsNull(txtStart) Then MsgBox "Please enter a start date", vbOKOnly, "Error" Exit Sub End If If IsNull(txtEnd) Then MsgBox "Please enter an ending date", vbOKOnly, "Error" Exit Sub End If dteStart = txtStart dteEnd = txtEnd txtBusinessDays = BusinessDays(dteStart, dteEnd) End Sub Private Sub txtStart_LostFocus() lblStart.Caption = Format(txtStart, "dddd") End Sub Private Sub txtEnd_LostFocus() lblEnd.Caption = Format(txtEnd, "dddd") End Sub Creating BusinessDays() Now, you're ready to add the function procedure that calculates the business days between the two days you'll enter in the form you just created. Switch to the Modules sheet of the Database window and choose Module from the Insert menu. Next, enter the function in Listing B, and then save the module as basBusinessDays. If you're using DAO, make the substitutions shown in Table B. Finally, close the VBE. Listing B: Function to return number of workdays Function BusinessDays(startdate As Date, enddate As Date) As Integer Dim intHolidays As Integer Dim intTotalDays As Integer Dim intWeekendDays As Integer Dim rst As New ADODB.Recordset Dim strSQL As String Select Case DatePart("w", startdate, vbMonday) Case Is = 6 startdate = DateAdd("d", startdate, 2) Case Is = 7 startdate = DateAdd("d", startdate, 1) End Select Select Case DatePart("w", enddate, vbMonday) Case Is = 6 enddate = DateAdd("d", enddate, -1) Case Is = 7 enddate = DateAdd("d", enddate, -2) End Select strSQL = "SELECT Count(*) " & _ "FROM tblHolidays " & _ "WHERE HolidayDate BETWEEN #" & startdate & _ "# AND #" & enddate & "#" rst.Open strSQL, CurrentProject.Connection intHolidays = rst(0) intTotalDays = DateDiff("d", startdate, enddate) + 1 intWeekendDays = DateDiff("ww", startdate, enddate, vbMonday) * 2 BusinessDays = intTotalDays - intWeekendDays - intHolidays Set rst = Nothing End Function Table B: DAO substitutions ADO DAO Dim rst As New ADODB.Recordset Dim rst As DAO.Recordset rst.Open strSQL, _ CurrentProject.Connection Set rst = _ CurrentDb.OpenRecordset(strSQL) The function looks more complicated than it is. First, the function adjusts the two passed dates if either falls on a Saturday or Sunday. Specifically, if the starting date falls on a Saturday or Sunday, the first SELECT CASE statement adds 1 or 2 days to startdate, respectively, to make sure startdate is the following Monday. Similarly, if the ending date falls on a Saturday or Sunday, the second SELECT CASE statement respectively subtracts 1 or 2 days, making enddate the previous Friday. Then, the function determines the number of records in tblHolidays where HolidayDate falls between the two passed dates, startdate and enddate. That value is stored in the integer variable intHolidays. At this point, the function uses the DateDiff() function to determine the total number of days between the (possibly modified) startdate and enddate values. Using the same startdate and enddate values, the function again uses the DateDiff() function to determine the number of weekend days that fall in the same time period. Finally, the function subtracts the number of weekend days and holidays from the total number of days to determine the number of business days. Calculating business days Now, you're ready to put everything to use, so open frmBusinessDays. To determine the number of business days between two dates, simply enter the first and last dates in the time period. For instance, enter 1/1/2004 and 1/10/2004 and then click Calculate. Figure C shows the result, which is 6. Figure C: Click the Calculate button to return the number of business days between the two dates. Let's take a look at everything that went on to return the value 6. After you entered date values in the first two controls, the LostFocus event procedures for those controls displayed the corresponding date's day of the week value to the right (in the label controls). These values aren't used, but it might be useful to know what day of the week each date represents. Clicking the Calculate button executed that button's Click event procedure. This procedure initially ensures that neither anchor date control is Null, which would return an error. You don't need to check for actual date values because both control's Format properties are set to Short Date. If you end up eliminating that Format property, you'll want to add code that verifies that the value is indeed a date. The event procedure then passed the two date values to BusinessDays() and then displayed the result in txtBusinessDays (the third text box). In the above example, the event procedure passed 1/1/2004 and 1/10/2004. The later date falls on a Saturday, so Access adjusted enddate by subtracting 1 day. As a result, enddate then equaled 1/9/2004. Then, the number of holidays between 1/1/2004 and 1/9/2004 were returned to the variable intHolidays. In this case, that value was 1. The total number of days between the two dates was 9 and the total number of weekend days was 2. Therefore, the final expression evaluated as follows: BusinessDays = intTotalDays - intWeekendDays - intHolidays BusinessDays = 9 - 2 - 1 BusinessDays = 6 A couple of points worth noting It's worth pointing out that the BusinessDays() function currently allows users to enter ending dates that fall before the start date. When this occurs, the function result is a negative value. You may or may not want to alter that behavior. If you want to prevent such cases, you might want to add a simple If...Then statement that checks the values and returns a message if the dates are inappropriate. Take a holiday! Sometimes you may feel that you spend more time keeping track of tasks and deliverables than actually working on them, so using a tool like Access to manage tasks can be a sanity saver. However, it's easy to get behind schedule if you don't allocate an appropriate amount of time to complete the tasks at the outset. Fortunately, you can use a custom function like the one we created in this article to ensure that you set realistic due dates. Soon you'll be able to take advantage of those paid holidays without worrying that projects are off schedule! -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Christopher Hawkins Sent: Wednesday, March 31, 2004 12:34 PM To: accessd at databaseadvisors.com Subject: [AccessD] Needed: GetBusinessDays(Date1, Date2) I am utterly shocked that a Google search on GetBusinessDays turned up squat. Anyways, I need an Access VBA function that will return the number of business days (Mon - Fri) between two dates. I know this is the type of stuff that's supposed to be all over the net, but I am finding nothing. Heeeeeeeeeeelp... -Christoher Hawkins- -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From reuben at gfconsultants.com Wed Mar 31 13:34:32 2004 From: reuben at gfconsultants.com (Reuben Cummings) Date: Wed, 31 Mar 2004 14:34:32 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Slow Forms In-Reply-To: <004301c416c7$a9f698f0$6101a8c0@dejpolsys> Message-ID: > > ...have you tried not loading the tabbed data until its actually selected I've considered this option. What event is used to "see" a tab being selected? Reuben Cummings GFC, LLC phone: 812.523.1017 email: reuben at gfconsultants.com > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of William > Hindman > Sent: Tuesday, March 30, 2004 9:27 PM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: Re: [AccessD] Slow Forms > > > ...have you tried not loading the tabbed data until its actually selected > ...that should let your main form open quickly based upon the info you > submitted. > > William Hindman > ipsedixitism: something is true because I myself have said it is > true ...the > philosophy of Noam Chomsky :) > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Reuben Cummings" > To: "AccessD" > Sent: Tuesday, March 30, 2004 4:14 PM > Subject: [AccessD] Slow Forms > > > > I need help with a form that opens very slowly. > > > > Everything worked very quickly until I compacted and repaired the db. > After > > compacting, this form will open slowly one time and then open > quickly all > > other times. It will continue to open as I would expect it to > until it is > > compacted again. > > > > However, if the app is made into an mde then it always opens slowly. > > > > The form is based on a query. There is a tab control on it. > One tab has > > about 14 fields from the same recordsource as the main form. The other > > three tabs all have subforms based on queries. 2 of those queries have > > fields that call functions to get their value. > > > > All the queries and subforms open very quickly. And if I delete the > > subforms, the main form will always operate quickly. > > > > I have imported into new db's. I have completely rebuilt the main form. > > > > Any suggestions on where to start troubleshooting this thing? > > > > Thanks. > > > > Reuben Cummings > > GFC, LLC > > phone: 812.523.1017 > > email: reuben at gfconsultants.com > > > > > > > > -- > > _______________________________________________ > > AccessD mailing list > > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > From Lambert.Heenan at AIG.com Wed Mar 31 13:51:07 2004 From: Lambert.Heenan at AIG.com (Heenan, Lambert) Date: Wed, 31 Mar 2004 14:51:07 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Slow Forms Message-ID: <8B98F8EA48F8BA47A2F24E0D0AF40CF407AD805D@xlivmbx12.aig.com> You need to use the tab Control's Change event. If you reference the tab control's Value property you will get the index number of the tab in question. > -----Original Message----- > From: Reuben Cummings [SMTP:reuben at gfconsultants.com] > Sent: Wednesday, March 31, 2004 2:35 PM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: RE: [AccessD] Slow Forms > > > > > ...have you tried not loading the tabbed data until its actually > selected > > I've considered this option. > > What event is used to "see" a tab being selected? > > Reuben Cummings > GFC, LLC > phone: 812.523.1017 > email: reuben at gfconsultants.com > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of William > > Hindman > > Sent: Tuesday, March 30, 2004 9:27 PM > > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > > Subject: Re: [AccessD] Slow Forms > > > > > > ...have you tried not loading the tabbed data until its actually > selected > > ...that should let your main form open quickly based upon the info you > > submitted. > > > > William Hindman > > ipsedixitism: something is true because I myself have said it is > > true ...the > > philosophy of Noam Chomsky :) > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: "Reuben Cummings" > > To: "AccessD" > > Sent: Tuesday, March 30, 2004 4:14 PM > > Subject: [AccessD] Slow Forms > > > > > > > I need help with a form that opens very slowly. > > > > > > Everything worked very quickly until I compacted and repaired the db. > > After > > > compacting, this form will open slowly one time and then open > > quickly all > > > other times. It will continue to open as I would expect it to > > until it is > > > compacted again. > > > > > > However, if the app is made into an mde then it always opens slowly. > > > > > > The form is based on a query. There is a tab control on it. > > One tab has > > > about 14 fields from the same recordsource as the main form. The > other > > > three tabs all have subforms based on queries. 2 of those queries > have > > > fields that call functions to get their value. > > > > > > All the queries and subforms open very quickly. And if I delete the > > > subforms, the main form will always operate quickly. > > > > > > I have imported into new db's. I have completely rebuilt the main > form. > > > > > > Any suggestions on where to start troubleshooting this thing? > > > > > > Thanks. > > > > > > Reuben Cummings > > > GFC, LLC > > > phone: 812.523.1017 > > > email: reuben at gfconsultants.com > > > > > > > > > > > > -- > > > _______________________________________________ > > > AccessD mailing list > > > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > > > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > > > > > > -- > > _______________________________________________ > > AccessD mailing list > > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > > > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From jimdettman at earthlink.net Wed Mar 31 14:43:22 2004 From: jimdettman at earthlink.net (Jim Dettman) Date: Wed, 31 Mar 2004 15:43:22 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Slow Forms In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Reuben, Sounds like the costing plan being done for the queries. I would not consider it abnormal. Jim Dettman President, Online Computer Services of WNY, Inc. (315) 699-3443 jimdettman at earthlink.net -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Reuben Cummings Sent: Tuesday, March 30, 2004 4:30 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] Slow Forms When I say slow I mean from 1 second before compacting to 11-15 seconds the first time and 1 second afterward. In an mde it always takes about 11-15 seconds on my machine and 30 seconds across the network. I should have mentioned the app is split and in A2K. Reuben Cummings GFC, LLC phone: 812.523.1017 email: reuben at gfconsultants.com > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Jim Dettman > Sent: Tuesday, March 30, 2004 4:19 PM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: RE: [AccessD] Slow Forms > > > Reuben, > > < After > compacting, this form will open slowly one time and then open quickly all > other times. It will continue to open as I would expect it to until it is > compacted again.>> > > Not sure what you mean by "slow" (i.e. drastic difference?), > but you will > in general see that after any compact as the database stats are reset and > all query plans are redone the first time a query is executed. > > Jim Dettman > President, > Online Computer Services of WNY, Inc. > (315) 699-3443 > jimdettman at earthlink.net > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Reuben > Cummings > Sent: Tuesday, March 30, 2004 4:15 PM > To: AccessD > Subject: [AccessD] Slow Forms > > > I need help with a form that opens very slowly. > > Everything worked very quickly until I compacted and repaired the > db. After > compacting, this form will open slowly one time and then open quickly all > other times. It will continue to open as I would expect it to until it is > compacted again. > > However, if the app is made into an mde then it always opens slowly. > > The form is based on a query. There is a tab control on it. One tab has > about 14 fields from the same recordsource as the main form. The other > three tabs all have subforms based on queries. 2 of those queries have > fields that call functions to get their value. > > All the queries and subforms open very quickly. And if I delete the > subforms, the main form will always operate quickly. > > I have imported into new db's. I have completely rebuilt the main form. > > Any suggestions on where to start troubleshooting this thing? > > Thanks. > > Reuben Cummings > GFC, LLC > phone: 812.523.1017 > email: reuben at gfconsultants.com > > > > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From bchacc at san.rr.com Wed Mar 31 14:46:26 2004 From: bchacc at san.rr.com (Rocky Smolin - Beach Access Software) Date: Wed, 31 Mar 2004 12:46:26 -0800 Subject: [AccessD] OT: A survey from somebody not as well-connected as JC References: <2F8793082E00D4119A1700B0D0216BF802227A44@main2.marlow.com> <07bf01c41745$8bc65630$6601a8c0@HAL9002> Message-ID: <086901c41761$3c9a0590$6601a8c0@HAL9002> Drew: Got rejected again. Is it the attachment? Rocky ----- Original Message ----- From: "Rocky Smolin - Beach Access Software" To: "Access Developers discussion and problem solving" Sent: Wednesday, March 31, 2004 9:28 AM Subject: Re: [AccessD] OT: A survey from somebody not as well-connected as JC > Yeah. But the address I got from the email was uppercase DWUTKA as you can > see in the FROM line below and in your email it's lower case. Shouldn't > make a difference but I just re-sent it to the lower case address. Stand > by... > > Rocky > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: > To: > Sent: Wednesday, March 31, 2004 9:00 AM > Subject: RE: [AccessD] OT: A survey from somebody not as well-connected as > JC > > > > Did you send it to dwutka at marlow.com ? I should be able to handle 1.5 > megs > > (have 10 megs left in my mailbox) > > > > Drew > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Rocky Smolin - > > Beach Access Software > > Sent: Wednesday, March 31, 2004 10:53 AM > > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > > Subject: Re: [AccessD] OT: A survey from somebody not as well-connected > > as JC > > > > > > Drew: > > > > Just tried to send you The Sleep Doctor and got rejected. Is there a > better > > address? The attachment is <1.5MB > > > > Rocky Smolin > > Beach Access Software > > http://www.e-z-mrp.com > > > > > > > > ----- The following addresses had permanent fatal errors ----- > > > > (reason: 554 : Sender address rejected: Access > > denied) > > > > ----- Transcript of session follows ----- > > ... while talking to main2.marlow.com.: > > >>> DATA > > <<< 554 : Sender address rejected: Access denied > > 554 5.0.0 Service unavailable > > <<< 554 Error: no valid recipients > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: > > To: > > Sent: Wednesday, March 31, 2004 8:22 AM > > Subject: RE: [AccessD] OT: A survey from somebody not as well-connected as > > JC > > > > > > > LOL. Rocky, Life has been nothing short of hectic for the last few > > months. > > > I KNOW you sent me a test to run, but quite frankly, I know I've rebuilt > > my > > > machine since then, and can't find it. > > > > > > Any way you'll give me another chance to be a beta tester? > > > > > > By the way, and I know this is off topic, but I have an odd 'symptom' I > > > discovered. I've noticed that when I sleep with my CPAP machine, I > don't > > > remember my dreams when I wake up. However, when I don't sleep with it, > > > then I can vividly remember my dreams for as long as I want (I can think > > > about them the whole day if I want too). > > > > > > Drew > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > > > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Rocky Smolin - > > > Beach Access Software > > > Sent: Wednesday, March 31, 2004 12:07 AM > > > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > > > Subject: Re: [AccessD] OT: A survey from somebody not as well-connected > > > as JC > > > > > > > > > John: > > > > > > Do you snore? Loudly? Are you very tired upon waking up in the > morning? > > > Is you neck circumference over 16 inches? Might you fall asleep while > > > watching TV? Does your wife say you stop breathing or gasp for air > while > > > you sleep? Is you body mass index over 26? > > > > > > If you answered yes to any of the above questions you need to be a Sleep > > > Doctor beta tester. Let The Sleep Doctor help. Simply reply to > > > bchacc at san.rr.com and say 'I wanna be a beta tester!'. Operators are > > > standing by... > > > > > > Rocky Smolin > > > Beach Access Software > > > http://www.e-z-mrp.com > > > > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > From: "John Bartow" > > > To: "Access Developers discussion and problem solving" > > > > > > Sent: Tuesday, March 30, 2004 8:55 PM > > > Subject: RE: [AccessD] OT: A survey from somebody not as well-connected > as > > > JC > > > > > > > > > > Good thing my wife doesn't read this or she'd order a copy to analyze > me > > > > right now :o) > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > > > > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Rocky > Smolin - > > > > Beach Access Software > > > > Sent: Tuesday, March 30, 2004 10:39 PM > > > > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > > > > Subject: Re: [AccessD] OT: A survey from somebody not as > well-connected > > > > as JC > > > > > > > > > > > > Sure. I estimate it will take to the end of the year before I see any > > > real > > > > results. > > > > > > > > I've got another product cooking as well - analyzes sleep disorders. > > Been > > > > working on it with an expert in the field for 4-5 years (not > > continuously, > > > > of course). Might be able to launch it this year. > > > > > > > > Do you want to be a beta tester? > > > > > > > > Rocky > > > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > > From: "Kath Pelletti" > > > > To: "Access Developers discussion and problem solving" > > > > > > > > Sent: Tuesday, March 30, 2004 8:23 PM > > > > Subject: Re: [AccessD] OT: A survey from somebody not as > well-connected > > as > > > > JC > > > > > > > > > > > > Well I wish you the very best of luck...can you let us know how the > > sales > > > > go? > > > > > > > > Kath > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > > From: Rocky Smolin - Beach Access Software > > > > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > > > > Sent: Wednesday, March 31, 2004 9:42 AM > > > > Subject: Re: [AccessD] OT: A survey from somebody not as > > well-connected > > > as > > > > JC > > > > > > > > > > > > Kath: > > > > > > > > In the 'old' days when I was flogging this package in DOS, I thought > > > that > > > > some of them would be sold by word of mouth, people seeing it, or > the > > > > reports that got passed around (which all had my company name in the > > > > footer). So I always wanted everyone to have the latest version. > So > > I > > > > didn't charge for it. It was in my self-interest to have them use > the > > > > most > > > > recent release. And I'm still going to keep to that policy for this > > new > > > > version. > > > > > > > > If I add a module, like Order Entry, everybody will get it at no > cost. > > > > With > > > > distribution by web, there really is no overhead cost to me to > > > distribute > > > > it. And good product sells more product. > > > > > > > > I promote the product support as a 'free phone in consulting service > > on > > > > any > > > > question related to the software OR manufacturing systems' for the > > first > > > > year, and $300 a year after that (about 10% of the purchase price). > > > > > > > > In the past I had a lot of conversations with people about > > manufacturing > > > > issues - how to structure a bill of materials, how to make up a part > > > > numbering scheme, how to solve a particular work order problem, > etc - > > > and > > > > very few questions about how to actually run the software. This > added > > a > > > > LOT > > > > of value to the product and didn't really take very much time. > > > > > > > > The key is to make a product which is so user stupid that anybody > who > > > can > > > > read and count to 20 can run it. Then you don't get the same > question > > > 20 > > > > times a day, like 'how do I run a costed inventory report?'. > > > > > > > > If a user doesn't want to pay the yearly maintenance then they don't > > get > > > > the > > > > phone support. I could tell them they don't get the new releases as > > > well > > > > but that works against me salewise. Many people didn't pay for the > > > > support > > > > after the first couple of years because they never called me for > > > anything. > > > > > > > > The other key, of course, it goes without saying, is to make the > > product > > > > so > > > > solid that it doesn't generate bugs and errors. Then you don't get > > any > > > > support calls. > > > > > > > > BTW - I'm not a marketer or salesy type person, either. But if you > > have > > > > something you believe in it's not really selling. And I really > > believe > > > in > > > > this product (why not, I invented it?). I just present the product > > and > > > if > > > > they like it fine. They buy it. If not, it's like pushing on a > > string. > > > > > > > > I always wanted people to feel like they got more than they expected > > and > > > > when you sell hard you overhype, raise expectations, and end up with > > > > customers who expect more than you have to give. > > > > > > > > When people buy E-Z-MRP they feel like they just bought a dollar for > > > fifty > > > > cents. That makes selling a lot easier, too. > > > > > > > > I suppose that's why I'm successful but not rich. :) > > > > > > > > HTH > > > > > > > > Rocky Smolin > > > > Beach Access Software > > > > http://www.e-z-mrp.com > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > > From: "Kath Pelletti" > > > > To: "Access Developers discussion and problem solving" > > > > > > > > Sent: Tuesday, March 30, 2004 2:59 PM > > > > Subject: Re: [AccessD] OT: A survey from somebody not as > > well-connected > > > as > > > > JC > > > > > > > > > > > > Rocky - out of interest - what support arrangements / fees are you > > > > offering? > > > > > > > > Kath > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > > From: Rocky Smolin - Beach Access Software > > > > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > > > > Sent: Wednesday, March 31, 2004 8:48 AM > > > > Subject: Re: [AccessD] OT: A survey from somebody not as > > > well-connected > > > > as > > > > JC > > > > > > > > > > > > Andy: > > > > > > > > Don't envy me. They jury's still out. I've got a bit of a buffer > so > > > we > > > > won't miss any meals, but that can't go on forever. I've had two > > good > > > > products and several bad ones. At least this time I'm starting in > > an > > > > economy that's on the upswing. > > > > > > > > But I've always been a bootstrap kind of guy - we're doing a > mailing > > > in > > > > San > > > > Diego county this month. Hopefully snag two or three systems. > Then > > > use > > > > that money to mail again in another county. Build it up slowly. > > > > Instead > > > > of > > > > mortgaging the house. > > > > > > > > I'm still doing some fee-for-service as well. So that keeps some > of > > > the > > > > lights on. > > > > > > > > It's a high wire act for sure. But when it does work, it's a > thing > > of > > > > beauty. > > > > > > > > Rocky > > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > > > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > > > > > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Andy > > Lacey > > > > > Sent: Tuesday, March 30, 2004 1:18 PM > > > > > To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' > > > > > Subject: RE: [AccessD] OT: A survey from somebody not as > > > > well-connected > > > > > as JC > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I envy Rocky (sort of) but won't be trying to emulate him. Been > > > there, > > > > tried > > > > > that, and failed. Problem with the product thing is that you > have > > to > > > > > metamorphose from developer into marketer, and I couldn't. Not > my > > > > thing > > > > at > > > > > all. Plus IME it involves sinking money into advertising, > mailing, > > > > > brochures, websites nd so on. You have to be prepared to risk > big > > > > outlay > > > > > against no guarantee of return. Done that 2 or 3 times to great > > cost > > > > and > > > > no > > > > > great return. Won't be doing it again. > > > > > > > > > > -- Andy Lacey > > > > > http://www.minstersystems.co.uk > > > > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > > > > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > > > > > > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of > > > > > > Steven W. Erbach > > > > > > Sent: 30 March 2004 04:16 > > > > > > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > > > > > > Subject: Re: [AccessD] OT: A survey from somebody not as > > > > > > well-connected as JC > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > William, > > > > > > > > > > > > >> ...don't take this the wrong way << > > > > > > > > > > > > I won't. I appreciate your point of view. I have gotten > > > > > > caught up in the tools as if owning the right brand of socket > > > > > > wrench will guarantee me a living. > > > > > > > > > > > > But I hear you on the client-centered approach. I've worked > > > > > > on lots of things that were outside of my skill-set comfort > > zone. > > > > > > > > > > > > I talked with a friend recently about my business and he > > > > > > asked if there was anything I specialized in. I told him no; > > > > > > my business is producing custom solutions to solve customer > > > > > > problems. He recommended a product-centered approach, like > > > > > > what Rocky is aiming for. I have a long-term care facility > > > > > > marketing and donations program I wrote that might fill the > > > > > > bill. We'll see. > > > > > > > > > > > > >> ...but I'm just me and don't have any intention of ever > > > > > > working hard > > > > > > >> again << > > > > > > > > > > > > Not really an option for me as we're having some tough times > > > > > > financially. I can dig the varietal nature of your work, > > > > > > though. Thanks. > > > > > > > > > > > > Regards, > > > > > > > > > > > > Steve Erbach > > > > > > Scientific Marketing > > > > > > Neenah, WI > > > > > > > > > > > > "You must be an intellectual. No normal person would say a > > > > > > thing like that." - George Orwell > > > > > > > > > > > > -- > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > > > > AccessD mailing list > > > > > > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > > > > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/a> ccessd > > > > > > Website: > > > > > > http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -- > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > > > AccessD mailing list > > > > > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > > > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > > > > > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -- > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > > > AccessD mailing list > > > > > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > > > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > > > > > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > > > > > > > > > > -- > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > > AccessD mailing list > > > > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > > > > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > -- > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > > AccessD mailing list > > > > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > > > > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > > > > > -- > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > > AccessD mailing list > > > > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > > > > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > -- > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > > AccessD mailing list > > > > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > > > > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > > > > > -- > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > > AccessD mailing list > > > > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > > > > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -- > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > > AccessD mailing list > > > > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > > > > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > > > > > > > -- > > > _______________________________________________ > > > AccessD mailing list > > > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > > > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > -- > > > _______________________________________________ > > > AccessD mailing list > > > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > > > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > > > > -- > > _______________________________________________ > > AccessD mailing list > > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > -- > > _______________________________________________ > > AccessD mailing list > > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > From mwp.reid at qub.ac.uk Wed Mar 31 14:49:03 2004 From: mwp.reid at qub.ac.uk (Martin Reid) Date: Wed, 31 Mar 2004 21:49:03 +0100 Subject: [AccessD] Access to SQL Server References: <8B98F8EA48F8BA47A2F24E0D0AF40CF407AD805D@xlivmbx12.aig.com> Message-ID: <001101c41761$9d32df80$1b02a8c0@MARTINREID> If your employer/customer asked you to move all your Access databases onto a central SQL Server what problems other than code rewrite would you bring up? What would stop you doing this or maybe think twice before starting? I am working on a project which looks at moving all of an organisations databases to SQL Server over a period of time. This is not a real project but we are trying to see how developers would react to the possibility. I am really interested in the view point of the actual people who may have to do this. One of the areas I am looking at is performance and issues surrounding redesign. for example at the university we have many small Access dbs which duplicate student data. It would be fairly easy to remove this duplication by moving them to SQL Server and linking to a core set of data making it very easy for us to mange this type of installation. Comments.opinions etc appreciated Martin From my.lists at verizon.net Wed Mar 31 14:54:17 2004 From: my.lists at verizon.net (Francisco H Tapia) Date: Wed, 31 Mar 2004 12:54:17 -0800 Subject: [AccessD] New SQL Question In-Reply-To: <001501c41731$c24b07f0$9111758f@aine> References: <20040331085848.1669675382.serbach@new.rr.com> <001501c41731$c24b07f0$9111758f@aine> Message-ID: <406B2FF9.4090809@verizon.net> Martin Reid said the following on 3/31/2004 7:06 AM: >LOL >Seems to be. > >Once I sent the message I set down again and looked at the problem and the >answer was fairly straight forward. Sometimes I think it helps simply by >writing down the problem rather than going around and around inside your >head with it. > >Martin > > ... :|, did Susan hijack your email account? :) -- -Francisco From DWUTKA at marlow.com Wed Mar 31 14:55:27 2004 From: DWUTKA at marlow.com (DWUTKA at marlow.com) Date: Wed, 31 Mar 2004 14:55:27 -0600 Subject: [AccessD] OT: A survey from somebody not as well-connected as JC Message-ID: <2F8793082E00D4119A1700B0D0216BF802227A46@main2.marlow.com> As long as it's not an executable. Rocky, just send me an email, no attachment. Also, what is the rejection saying? Drew -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Rocky Smolin - Beach Access Software Sent: Wednesday, March 31, 2004 2:46 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] OT: A survey from somebody not as well-connected as JC Drew: Got rejected again. Is it the attachment? Rocky ----- Original Message ----- From: "Rocky Smolin - Beach Access Software" To: "Access Developers discussion and problem solving" Sent: Wednesday, March 31, 2004 9:28 AM Subject: Re: [AccessD] OT: A survey from somebody not as well-connected as JC > Yeah. But the address I got from the email was uppercase DWUTKA as you can > see in the FROM line below and in your email it's lower case. Shouldn't > make a difference but I just re-sent it to the lower case address. Stand > by... > > Rocky > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: > To: > Sent: Wednesday, March 31, 2004 9:00 AM > Subject: RE: [AccessD] OT: A survey from somebody not as well-connected as > JC > > > > Did you send it to dwutka at marlow.com ? I should be able to handle 1.5 > megs > > (have 10 megs left in my mailbox) > > > > Drew > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Rocky Smolin - > > Beach Access Software > > Sent: Wednesday, March 31, 2004 10:53 AM > > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > > Subject: Re: [AccessD] OT: A survey from somebody not as well-connected > > as JC > > > > > > Drew: > > > > Just tried to send you The Sleep Doctor and got rejected. Is there a > better > > address? The attachment is <1.5MB > > > > Rocky Smolin > > Beach Access Software > > http://www.e-z-mrp.com > > > > > > > > ----- The following addresses had permanent fatal errors ----- > > > > (reason: 554 : Sender address rejected: Access > > denied) > > > > ----- Transcript of session follows ----- > > ... while talking to main2.marlow.com.: > > >>> DATA > > <<< 554 : Sender address rejected: Access denied > > 554 5.0.0 Service unavailable > > <<< 554 Error: no valid recipients > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: > > To: > > Sent: Wednesday, March 31, 2004 8:22 AM > > Subject: RE: [AccessD] OT: A survey from somebody not as well-connected as > > JC > > > > > > > LOL. Rocky, Life has been nothing short of hectic for the last few > > months. > > > I KNOW you sent me a test to run, but quite frankly, I know I've rebuilt > > my > > > machine since then, and can't find it. > > > > > > Any way you'll give me another chance to be a beta tester? > > > > > > By the way, and I know this is off topic, but I have an odd 'symptom' I > > > discovered. I've noticed that when I sleep with my CPAP machine, I > don't > > > remember my dreams when I wake up. However, when I don't sleep with it, > > > then I can vividly remember my dreams for as long as I want (I can think > > > about them the whole day if I want too). > > > > > > Drew > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > > > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Rocky Smolin - > > > Beach Access Software > > > Sent: Wednesday, March 31, 2004 12:07 AM > > > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > > > Subject: Re: [AccessD] OT: A survey from somebody not as well-connected > > > as JC > > > > > > > > > John: > > > > > > Do you snore? Loudly? Are you very tired upon waking up in the > morning? > > > Is you neck circumference over 16 inches? Might you fall asleep while > > > watching TV? Does your wife say you stop breathing or gasp for air > while > > > you sleep? Is you body mass index over 26? > > > > > > If you answered yes to any of the above questions you need to be a Sleep > > > Doctor beta tester. Let The Sleep Doctor help. Simply reply to > > > bchacc at san.rr.com and say 'I wanna be a beta tester!'. Operators are > > > standing by... > > > > > > Rocky Smolin > > > Beach Access Software > > > http://www.e-z-mrp.com > > > > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > From: "John Bartow" > > > To: "Access Developers discussion and problem solving" > > > > > > Sent: Tuesday, March 30, 2004 8:55 PM > > > Subject: RE: [AccessD] OT: A survey from somebody not as well-connected > as > > > JC > > > > > > > > > > Good thing my wife doesn't read this or she'd order a copy to analyze > me > > > > right now :o) > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > > > > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Rocky > Smolin - > > > > Beach Access Software > > > > Sent: Tuesday, March 30, 2004 10:39 PM > > > > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > > > > Subject: Re: [AccessD] OT: A survey from somebody not as > well-connected > > > > as JC > > > > > > > > > > > > Sure. I estimate it will take to the end of the year before I see any > > > real > > > > results. > > > > > > > > I've got another product cooking as well - analyzes sleep disorders. > > Been > > > > working on it with an expert in the field for 4-5 years (not > > continuously, > > > > of course). Might be able to launch it this year. > > > > > > > > Do you want to be a beta tester? > > > > > > > > Rocky > > > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > > From: "Kath Pelletti" > > > > To: "Access Developers discussion and problem solving" > > > > > > > > Sent: Tuesday, March 30, 2004 8:23 PM > > > > Subject: Re: [AccessD] OT: A survey from somebody not as > well-connected > > as > > > > JC > > > > > > > > > > > > Well I wish you the very best of luck...can you let us know how the > > sales > > > > go? > > > > > > > > Kath > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > > From: Rocky Smolin - Beach Access Software > > > > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > > > > Sent: Wednesday, March 31, 2004 9:42 AM > > > > Subject: Re: [AccessD] OT: A survey from somebody not as > > well-connected > > > as > > > > JC > > > > > > > > > > > > Kath: > > > > > > > > In the 'old' days when I was flogging this package in DOS, I thought > > > that > > > > some of them would be sold by word of mouth, people seeing it, or > the > > > > reports that got passed around (which all had my company name in the > > > > footer). So I always wanted everyone to have the latest version. > So > > I > > > > didn't charge for it. It was in my self-interest to have them use > the > > > > most > > > > recent release. And I'm still going to keep to that policy for this > > new > > > > version. > > > > > > > > If I add a module, like Order Entry, everybody will get it at no > cost. > > > > With > > > > distribution by web, there really is no overhead cost to me to > > > distribute > > > > it. And good product sells more product. > > > > > > > > I promote the product support as a 'free phone in consulting service > > on > > > > any > > > > question related to the software OR manufacturing systems' for the > > first > > > > year, and $300 a year after that (about 10% of the purchase price). > > > > > > > > In the past I had a lot of conversations with people about > > manufacturing > > > > issues - how to structure a bill of materials, how to make up a part > > > > numbering scheme, how to solve a particular work order problem, > etc - > > > and > > > > very few questions about how to actually run the software. This > added > > a > > > > LOT > > > > of value to the product and didn't really take very much time. > > > > > > > > The key is to make a product which is so user stupid that anybody > who > > > can > > > > read and count to 20 can run it. Then you don't get the same > question > > > 20 > > > > times a day, like 'how do I run a costed inventory report?'. > > > > > > > > If a user doesn't want to pay the yearly maintenance then they don't > > get > > > > the > > > > phone support. I could tell them they don't get the new releases as > > > well > > > > but that works against me salewise. Many people didn't pay for the > > > > support > > > > after the first couple of years because they never called me for > > > anything. > > > > > > > > The other key, of course, it goes without saying, is to make the > > product > > > > so > > > > solid that it doesn't generate bugs and errors. Then you don't get > > any > > > > support calls. > > > > > > > > BTW - I'm not a marketer or salesy type person, either. But if you > > have > > > > something you believe in it's not really selling. And I really > > believe > > > in > > > > this product (why not, I invented it?). I just present the product > > and > > > if > > > > they like it fine. They buy it. If not, it's like pushing on a > > string. > > > > > > > > I always wanted people to feel like they got more than they expected > > and > > > > when you sell hard you overhype, raise expectations, and end up with > > > > customers who expect more than you have to give. > > > > > > > > When people buy E-Z-MRP they feel like they just bought a dollar for > > > fifty > > > > cents. That makes selling a lot easier, too. > > > > > > > > I suppose that's why I'm successful but not rich. :) > > > > > > > > HTH > > > > > > > > Rocky Smolin > > > > Beach Access Software > > > > http://www.e-z-mrp.com > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > > From: "Kath Pelletti" > > > > To: "Access Developers discussion and problem solving" > > > > > > > > Sent: Tuesday, March 30, 2004 2:59 PM > > > > Subject: Re: [AccessD] OT: A survey from somebody not as > > well-connected > > > as > > > > JC > > > > > > > > > > > > Rocky - out of interest - what support arrangements / fees are you > > > > offering? > > > > > > > > Kath > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > > From: Rocky Smolin - Beach Access Software > > > > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > > > > Sent: Wednesday, March 31, 2004 8:48 AM > > > > Subject: Re: [AccessD] OT: A survey from somebody not as > > > well-connected > > > > as > > > > JC > > > > > > > > > > > > Andy: > > > > > > > > Don't envy me. They jury's still out. I've got a bit of a buffer > so > > > we > > > > won't miss any meals, but that can't go on forever. I've had two > > good > > > > products and several bad ones. At least this time I'm starting in > > an > > > > economy that's on the upswing. > > > > > > > > But I've always been a bootstrap kind of guy - we're doing a > mailing > > > in > > > > San > > > > Diego county this month. Hopefully snag two or three systems. > Then > > > use > > > > that money to mail again in another county. Build it up slowly. > > > > Instead > > > > of > > > > mortgaging the house. > > > > > > > > I'm still doing some fee-for-service as well. So that keeps some > of > > > the > > > > lights on. > > > > > > > > It's a high wire act for sure. But when it does work, it's a > thing > > of > > > > beauty. > > > > > > > > Rocky > > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > > > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > > > > > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Andy > > Lacey > > > > > Sent: Tuesday, March 30, 2004 1:18 PM > > > > > To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' > > > > > Subject: RE: [AccessD] OT: A survey from somebody not as > > > > well-connected > > > > > as JC > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I envy Rocky (sort of) but won't be trying to emulate him. Been > > > there, > > > > tried > > > > > that, and failed. Problem with the product thing is that you > have > > to > > > > > metamorphose from developer into marketer, and I couldn't. Not > my > > > > thing > > > > at > > > > > all. Plus IME it involves sinking money into advertising, > mailing, > > > > > brochures, websites nd so on. You have to be prepared to risk > big > > > > outlay > > > > > against no guarantee of return. Done that 2 or 3 times to great > > cost > > > > and > > > > no > > > > > great return. Won't be doing it again. > > > > > > > > > > -- Andy Lacey > > > > > http://www.minstersystems.co.uk > > > > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > > > > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > > > > > > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of > > > > > > Steven W. Erbach > > > > > > Sent: 30 March 2004 04:16 > > > > > > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > > > > > > Subject: Re: [AccessD] OT: A survey from somebody not as > > > > > > well-connected as JC > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > William, > > > > > > > > > > > > >> ...don't take this the wrong way << > > > > > > > > > > > > I won't. I appreciate your point of view. I have gotten > > > > > > caught up in the tools as if owning the right brand of socket > > > > > > wrench will guarantee me a living. > > > > > > > > > > > > But I hear you on the client-centered approach. I've worked > > > > > > on lots of things that were outside of my skill-set comfort > > zone. > > > > > > > > > > > > I talked with a friend recently about my business and he > > > > > > asked if there was anything I specialized in. I told him no; > > > > > > my business is producing custom solutions to solve customer > > > > > > problems. He recommended a product-centered approach, like > > > > > > what Rocky is aiming for. I have a long-term care facility > > > > > > marketing and donations program I wrote that might fill the > > > > > > bill. We'll see. > > > > > > > > > > > > >> ...but I'm just me and don't have any intention of ever > > > > > > working hard > > > > > > >> again << > > > > > > > > > > > > Not really an option for me as we're having some tough times > > > > > > financially. I can dig the varietal nature of your work, > > > > > > though. Thanks. > > > > > > > > > > > > Regards, > > > > > > > > > > > > Steve Erbach > > > > > > Scientific Marketing > > > > > > Neenah, WI > > > > > > > > > > > > "You must be an intellectual. No normal person would say a > > > > > > thing like that." - George Orwell > > > > > > > > > > > > -- > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > > > > AccessD mailing list > > > > > > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > > > > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/a> ccessd > > > > > > Website: > > > > > > http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -- > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > > > AccessD mailing list > > > > > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > > > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > > > > > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -- > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > > > AccessD mailing list > > > > > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > > > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > > > > > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > > > > > > > > > > -- > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > > AccessD mailing list > > > > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > > > > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > -- > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > > AccessD mailing list > > > > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > > > > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > > > > > -- > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > > AccessD mailing list > > > > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > > > > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > -- > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > > AccessD mailing list > > > > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > > > > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > > > > > -- > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > > AccessD mailing list > > > > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > > > > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -- > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > > AccessD mailing list > > > > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > > > > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > > > > > > > -- > > > _______________________________________________ > > > AccessD mailing list > > > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > > > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > -- > > > _______________________________________________ > > > AccessD mailing list > > > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > > > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > > > > -- > > _______________________________________________ > > AccessD mailing list > > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > -- > > _______________________________________________ > > AccessD mailing list > > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From my.lists at verizon.net Wed Mar 31 14:57:09 2004 From: my.lists at verizon.net (Francisco H Tapia) Date: Wed, 31 Mar 2004 12:57:09 -0800 Subject: [AccessD] Access to SQL Server In-Reply-To: <001101c41761$9d32df80$1b02a8c0@MARTINREID> References: <8B98F8EA48F8BA47A2F24E0D0AF40CF407AD805D@xlivmbx12.aig.com> <001101c41761$9d32df80$1b02a8c0@MARTINREID> Message-ID: <406B30A5.1020609@verizon.net> dejavu... QUICK if someone knows an alternate email address or phone number, quick email him and tell him someone has hijacked his account :|, :)... wasn't this question asked already? Martin Reid said the following on 3/31/2004 12:49 PM: >If your employer/customer asked you to move all your Access databases onto a >central SQL Server what problems other than code rewrite would you bring up? > >What would stop you doing this or maybe think twice before starting? > >I am working on a project which looks at moving all of an organisations >databases to SQL Server over a period of time. This is not a real project >but we are trying to see how developers would react to the possibility. I am >really interested in the view point of the actual people who may have to do >this. > >One of the areas I am looking at is performance and issues surrounding >redesign. for example at the university we have many small Access dbs which >duplicate student data. It would be fairly easy to remove this duplication >by moving them to SQL Server and linking to a core set of data making it >very easy for us to mange this type of installation. > >Comments.opinions etc appreciated > > >Martin > > > -- -Francisco From mwp.reid at qub.ac.uk Wed Mar 31 15:03:37 2004 From: mwp.reid at qub.ac.uk (Martin Reid) Date: Wed, 31 Mar 2004 22:03:37 +0100 Subject: [AccessD] Access to SQL Server References: <8B98F8EA48F8BA47A2F24E0D0AF40CF407AD805D@xlivmbx12.aig.com><001101c41761$9d32df80$1b02a8c0@MARTINREID> <406B30A5.1020609@verizon.net> Message-ID: <000f01c41763$a46462e0$1b02a8c0@MARTINREID> LOL It was but in a slightly different way. (<: I only got two responses so was hoping for a bit more input this time. Martin ----- Original Message ----- From: "Francisco H Tapia" To: "Access Developers discussion and problem solving" Sent: Wednesday, March 31, 2004 9:57 PM Subject: Re: [AccessD] Access to SQL Server > dejavu... QUICK if someone knows an alternate email address or phone > number, quick email him and tell him someone has hijacked his account > :|, :)... > > wasn't this question asked already? > > Martin Reid said the following on 3/31/2004 12:49 PM: > > >If your employer/customer asked you to move all your Access databases onto a > >central SQL Server what problems other than code rewrite would you bring up? > > > >What would stop you doing this or maybe think twice before starting? > > > >I am working on a project which looks at moving all of an organisations > >databases to SQL Server over a period of time. This is not a real project > >but we are trying to see how developers would react to the possibility. I am > >really interested in the view point of the actual people who may have to do > >this. > > > >One of the areas I am looking at is performance and issues surrounding > >redesign. for example at the university we have many small Access dbs which > >duplicate student data. It would be fairly easy to remove this duplication > >by moving them to SQL Server and linking to a core set of data making it > >very easy for us to mange this type of installation. > > > >Comments.opinions etc appreciated > > > > > >Martin > > > > > > > > > -- > -Francisco > > > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > From bchacc at san.rr.com Wed Mar 31 15:10:25 2004 From: bchacc at san.rr.com (Rocky Smolin - Beach Access Software) Date: Wed, 31 Mar 2004 13:10:25 -0800 Subject: [AccessD] Fw: Returned mail: see transcript for details Message-ID: <08d601c41764$9622d490$6601a8c0@HAL9002> Drew: Here's the rejection I'm getting from your email address. On closer inspection, it appears to be me they're rejecting. I'm hurt. :( Rocky ----- Original Message ----- From: "Rocky Smolin - Beach Access Software" To: Sent: Wednesday, March 31, 2004 1:08 PM Subject: Fw: Returned mail: see transcript for details > Drew: > > Here's the rejection. > > Rocky > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Mail Delivery Subsystem" > To: > Sent: Wednesday, March 31, 2004 9:39 AM > Subject: Returned mail: see transcript for details > > > > The original message was received at Wed, 31 Mar 2004 09:38:56 -0800 (PST) > > from 24-25-217-158.san.rr.com [24.25.217.158] > > > > ----- The following addresses had permanent fatal errors ----- > > > > (reason: 554 : Sender address rejected: Access > denied) > > > > ----- Transcript of session follows ----- > > ... while talking to main2.marlow.com.: > > >>> DATA > > <<< 554 : Sender address rejected: Access denied > > 554 5.0.0 Service unavailable > > <<< 554 Error: no valid recipients > > > > > -------------------------------------------------------------------------- -- > ---- > > > > Received: from HAL9002 (24-25-217-158.san.rr.com [24.25.217.158]) > > by ms-smtp-03-eri0.socal.rr.com (8.12.10/8.12.7) with SMTP id > i2VHcuUL013549 > > for ; Wed, 31 Mar 2004 09:38:56 -0800 (PST) > > Message-ID: <07f401c41747$10170f00$6601a8c0 at HAL9002> > > From: "Rocky Smolin - Beach Access Software" > > To: > > Subject: Fw: Returned mail: see transcript for details > > Date: Wed, 31 Mar 2004 09:39:04 -0800 > > MIME-Version: 1.0 > > Content-Type: multipart/mixed; > > boundary="----=_NextPart_000_07F1_01C41704.01B5B490" > > X-Priority: 3 > > X-MSMail-Priority: Normal > > X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158 > > X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 > > X-Virus-Scanned: Symantec AntiVirus Scan Engine > > > From ssharkins at bellsouth.net Wed Mar 31 15:17:16 2004 From: ssharkins at bellsouth.net (Susan Harkins) Date: Wed, 31 Mar 2004 16:17:16 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Access to SQL Server In-Reply-To: <001101c41761$9d32df80$1b02a8c0@MARTINREID> Message-ID: <20040331211714.JSBY1775.imf19aec.mail.bellsouth.net@SUSANONE> Martin, don't forget administration and maintenance -- SQL Server's not like Access -- you don't just set it on a server and forget it until it needs compacting or repairing. Don't you think it would require new personnel for that many -- not to mention new training. You've already thought of those issues though, I'm sure. Susan H. If your employer/customer asked you to move all your Access databases onto a central SQL Server what problems other than code rewrite would you bring up? From ssharkins at bellsouth.net Wed Mar 31 15:18:02 2004 From: ssharkins at bellsouth.net (Susan Harkins) Date: Wed, 31 Mar 2004 16:18:02 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] New SQL Question In-Reply-To: <406B2FF9.4090809@verizon.net> Message-ID: <20040331211801.JSQL1775.imf19aec.mail.bellsouth.net@SUSANONE> OK, now it's personal!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! ;) Susan H. > ... :|, did Susan hijack your email account? :) From my.lists at verizon.net Wed Mar 31 15:41:24 2004 From: my.lists at verizon.net (Francisco H Tapia) Date: Wed, 31 Mar 2004 13:41:24 -0800 Subject: [AccessD] Access to SQL Server In-Reply-To: <406B30A5.1020609@verizon.net> References: <8B98F8EA48F8BA47A2F24E0D0AF40CF407AD805D@xlivmbx12.aig.com> <001101c41761$9d32df80$1b02a8c0@MARTINREID> <406B30A5.1020609@verizon.net> Message-ID: <406B3B04.8080406@verizon.net> > Martin Reid said the following on 3/31/2004 12:49 PM: > >> If your employer/customer asked you to move all your Access databases >> onto a >> central SQL Server what problems other than code rewrite would you >> bring up? > As with anything in what we do, "it depends". There is more than just code re-write especially if any of the suspected databases are not full normalized, and possibly need to be. Many times there is duplicated data across many databases in an organization because many sprouted through departmental needs rather than enterprise. This is in addition to the overhead of simply normalizing your databases individually, now you're looking at possibly consolidation throughout the many databases. There are space constraints on the servers as well, thus proper planning and space allocation planning is a must. >> What would stop you doing this or maybe think twice before starting? > A consolidated effort of this magnitude, imnsho requires full understanding of the mission each database had in mind when it was created. By this I mean what was the purpose of having yet another MDB (or dbx or whatever). The answers help shape the path and scope of the project. Often writing a full Spec sheet on each database will ease understanding. But as has been my experience w/ the users of such databases, the critical points are often missed. >> One of the areas I am looking at is performance and issues surrounding >> redesign. for example at the university we have many small Access dbs >> which >> duplicate student data. It would be fairly easy to remove this >> duplication >> by moving them to SQL Server and linking to a core set of data making it >> very easy for us to mange this type of installation. > performance is depends on a really good dba. Things such as IO, disk controllers, cpu's and bandwidth all affect it. So if you don't have a dba, or one w/ very little skills, then your Sql Server architecture is in great peril. -- -Francisco From johnskolits at corporatedatadesign.com Wed Mar 31 15:48:27 2004 From: johnskolits at corporatedatadesign.com (John Skolits) Date: Wed, 31 Mar 2004 16:48:27 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Snapshot Viewer to text In-Reply-To: <1338946814.20040331111746@cactus.dk> Message-ID: <007401c41769$e6b19860$0f01a8c0@cddserver2> Hey Gustav, That worked pretty well! Thanks! -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Gustav Brock Sent: Wednesday, March 31, 2004 4:18 AM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: Re: [AccessD] Snapshot Viewer to text Hi John You could print to a pdf file via a PDF-printer. Then open the pdf file in Adobe viewer and copy/paste the text you need. /gustav > Anyone know if you can take a snapshot viewer file and convert it to > text? -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From DWUTKA at marlow.com Wed Mar 31 15:49:08 2004 From: DWUTKA at marlow.com (DWUTKA at marlow.com) Date: Wed, 31 Mar 2004 15:49:08 -0600 Subject: [AccessD] Fw: Returned mail: see transcript for details Message-ID: <2F8793082E00D4119A1700B0D0216BF802227A49@main2.marlow.com> We recently purchased a hardware based spam blocker. (I like/hate it.) It does a great job with spams, but has been having a lot of false positives. (Things like ... in an email get the whole thing blocked.) Drew -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Rocky Smolin - Beach Access Software Sent: Wednesday, March 31, 2004 3:10 PM To: AccessD at databaseadvisors.com Subject: [AccessD] Fw: Returned mail: see transcript for details Drew: Here's the rejection I'm getting from your email address. On closer inspection, it appears to be me they're rejecting. I'm hurt. :( Rocky ----- Original Message ----- From: "Rocky Smolin - Beach Access Software" To: Sent: Wednesday, March 31, 2004 1:08 PM Subject: Fw: Returned mail: see transcript for details > Drew: > > Here's the rejection. > > Rocky > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Mail Delivery Subsystem" > To: > Sent: Wednesday, March 31, 2004 9:39 AM > Subject: Returned mail: see transcript for details > > > > The original message was received at Wed, 31 Mar 2004 09:38:56 -0800 (PST) > > from 24-25-217-158.san.rr.com [24.25.217.158] > > > > ----- The following addresses had permanent fatal errors ----- > > > > (reason: 554 : Sender address rejected: Access > denied) > > > > ----- Transcript of session follows ----- > > ... while talking to main2.marlow.com.: > > >>> DATA > > <<< 554 : Sender address rejected: Access denied > > 554 5.0.0 Service unavailable > > <<< 554 Error: no valid recipients > > > > > -------------------------------------------------------------------------- -- > ---- > > > > Received: from HAL9002 (24-25-217-158.san.rr.com [24.25.217.158]) > > by ms-smtp-03-eri0.socal.rr.com (8.12.10/8.12.7) with SMTP id > i2VHcuUL013549 > > for ; Wed, 31 Mar 2004 09:38:56 -0800 (PST) > > Message-ID: <07f401c41747$10170f00$6601a8c0 at HAL9002> > > From: "Rocky Smolin - Beach Access Software" > > To: > > Subject: Fw: Returned mail: see transcript for details > > Date: Wed, 31 Mar 2004 09:39:04 -0800 > > MIME-Version: 1.0 > > Content-Type: multipart/mixed; > > boundary="----=_NextPart_000_07F1_01C41704.01B5B490" > > X-Priority: 3 > > X-MSMail-Priority: Normal > > X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158 > > X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 > > X-Virus-Scanned: Symantec AntiVirus Scan Engine > > > -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From bchacc at san.rr.com Wed Mar 31 16:00:57 2004 From: bchacc at san.rr.com (Rocky Smolin - Beach Access Software) Date: Wed, 31 Mar 2004 14:00:57 -0800 Subject: [AccessD] Fw: Returned mail: see transcript for details References: <2F8793082E00D4119A1700B0D0216BF802227A49@main2.marlow.com> Message-ID: <091501c4176b$a5a32ad0$6601a8c0@HAL9002> Drew: How can I get past it? Or can you FTP from my web site? Of course, I can't even send you FTP instructions because it will block my email, yes? Rocky ----- Original Message ----- From: To: Sent: Wednesday, March 31, 2004 1:49 PM Subject: RE: [AccessD] Fw: Returned mail: see transcript for details > We recently purchased a hardware based spam blocker. (I like/hate it.) It > does a great job with spams, but has been having a lot of false positives. > (Things like ... in an email get the whole thing blocked.) > > Drew > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Rocky Smolin - > Beach Access Software > Sent: Wednesday, March 31, 2004 3:10 PM > To: AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > Subject: [AccessD] Fw: Returned mail: see transcript for details > > > Drew: > > Here's the rejection I'm getting from your email address. On closer > inspection, it appears to be me they're rejecting. I'm hurt. :( > > Rocky > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Rocky Smolin - Beach Access Software" > To: > Sent: Wednesday, March 31, 2004 1:08 PM > Subject: Fw: Returned mail: see transcript for details > > > > Drew: > > > > Here's the rejection. > > > > Rocky > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: "Mail Delivery Subsystem" > > > To: > > Sent: Wednesday, March 31, 2004 9:39 AM > > Subject: Returned mail: see transcript for details > > > > > > > The original message was received at Wed, 31 Mar 2004 09:38:56 -0800 > (PST) > > > from 24-25-217-158.san.rr.com [24.25.217.158] > > > > > > ----- The following addresses had permanent fatal errors ----- > > > > > > (reason: 554 : Sender address rejected: Access > > denied) > > > > > > ----- Transcript of session follows ----- > > > ... while talking to main2.marlow.com.: > > > >>> DATA > > > <<< 554 : Sender address rejected: Access denied > > > 554 5.0.0 Service unavailable > > > <<< 554 Error: no valid recipients > > > > > > > > > -------------------------------------------------------------------------- > -- > > ---- > > > > > > > Received: from HAL9002 (24-25-217-158.san.rr.com [24.25.217.158]) > > > by ms-smtp-03-eri0.socal.rr.com (8.12.10/8.12.7) with SMTP id > > i2VHcuUL013549 > > > for ; Wed, 31 Mar 2004 09:38:56 -0800 (PST) > > > Message-ID: <07f401c41747$10170f00$6601a8c0 at HAL9002> > > > From: "Rocky Smolin - Beach Access Software" > > > To: > > > Subject: Fw: Returned mail: see transcript for details > > > Date: Wed, 31 Mar 2004 09:39:04 -0800 > > > MIME-Version: 1.0 > > > Content-Type: multipart/mixed; > > > boundary="----=_NextPart_000_07F1_01C41704.01B5B490" > > > X-Priority: 3 > > > X-MSMail-Priority: Normal > > > X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158 > > > X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 > > > X-Virus-Scanned: Symantec AntiVirus Scan Engine > > > > > > > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > From bchacc at san.rr.com Wed Mar 31 16:12:50 2004 From: bchacc at san.rr.com (Rocky Smolin - Beach Access Software) Date: Wed, 31 Mar 2004 14:12:50 -0800 Subject: Fw: [AccessD] Fw: Returned mail: see transcript for details Message-ID: <094001c4176d$4e37cb50$6601a8c0@HAL9002> Drew: How can I get past it? Or can you FTP from my web site? Of course, I can't even send you FTP instructions because it will block my email, yes? Rocky > ----- Original Message ----- > From: > To: > Sent: Wednesday, March 31, 2004 1:49 PM > Subject: RE: [AccessD] Fw: Returned mail: see transcript for details > > > > We recently purchased a hardware based spam blocker. (I like/hate it.) > It > > does a great job with spams, but has been having a lot of false positives. > > (Things like ... in an email get the whole thing blocked.) > > > > Drew > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Rocky Smolin - > > Beach Access Software > > Sent: Wednesday, March 31, 2004 3:10 PM > > To: AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > Subject: [AccessD] Fw: Returned mail: see transcript for details > > > > > > Drew: > > > > Here's the rejection I'm getting from your email address. On closer > > inspection, it appears to be me they're rejecting. I'm hurt. :( > > > > Rocky > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: "Rocky Smolin - Beach Access Software" > > To: > > Sent: Wednesday, March 31, 2004 1:08 PM > > Subject: Fw: Returned mail: see transcript for details > > > > > > > Drew: > > > > > > Here's the rejection. > > > > > > Rocky > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > From: "Mail Delivery Subsystem" > > > > > To: > > > Sent: Wednesday, March 31, 2004 9:39 AM > > > Subject: Returned mail: see transcript for details > > > > > > > > > > The original message was received at Wed, 31 Mar 2004 09:38:56 -0800 > > (PST) > > > > from 24-25-217-158.san.rr.com [24.25.217.158] > > > > > > > > ----- The following addresses had permanent fatal errors ----- > > > > > > > > (reason: 554 : Sender address rejected: Access > > > denied) > > > > > > > > ----- Transcript of session follows ----- > > > > ... while talking to main2.marlow.com.: > > > > >>> DATA > > > > <<< 554 : Sender address rejected: Access denied > > > > 554 5.0.0 Service unavailable > > > > <<< 554 Error: no valid recipients > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -------------------------------------------------------------------------- > > -- > > > ---- > > > > > > > > > > Received: from HAL9002 (24-25-217-158.san.rr.com [24.25.217.158]) > > > > by ms-smtp-03-eri0.socal.rr.com (8.12.10/8.12.7) with SMTP id > > > i2VHcuUL013549 > > > > for ; Wed, 31 Mar 2004 09:38:56 -0800 (PST) > > > > Message-ID: <07f401c41747$10170f00$6601a8c0 at HAL9002> > > > > From: "Rocky Smolin - Beach Access Software" > > > > To: > > > > Subject: Fw: Returned mail: see transcript for details > > > > Date: Wed, 31 Mar 2004 09:39:04 -0800 > > > > MIME-Version: 1.0 > > > > Content-Type: multipart/mixed; > > > > boundary="----=_NextPart_000_07F1_01C41704.01B5B490" > > > > X-Priority: 3 > > > > X-MSMail-Priority: Normal > > > > X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158 > > > > X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 > > > > X-Virus-Scanned: Symantec AntiVirus Scan Engine > > > > > > > > > > > -- > > _______________________________________________ > > AccessD mailing list > > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > -- > > _______________________________________________ > > AccessD mailing list > > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > From DWUTKA at marlow.com Wed Mar 31 16:22:54 2004 From: DWUTKA at marlow.com (DWUTKA at marlow.com) Date: Wed, 31 Mar 2004 16:22:54 -0600 Subject: [AccessD] Fw: Returned mail: see transcript for details Message-ID: <2F8793082E00D4119A1700B0D0216BF802227A4C@main2.marlow.com> Yep, Mark is handling our Spam now (my co-worker). He said that the rr.com domain sends us a LOT of spam, so it's blacklisted. Send it to my home address of drewshome at wolfwares.com. (Sorry didn't post that earlier, been swamped today). Drew -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Rocky Smolin - Beach Access Software Sent: Wednesday, March 31, 2004 4:13 PM To: AccessD at databaseadvisors.com Subject: Fw: [AccessD] Fw: Returned mail: see transcript for details Drew: How can I get past it? Or can you FTP from my web site? Of course, I can't even send you FTP instructions because it will block my email, yes? Rocky > ----- Original Message ----- > From: > To: > Sent: Wednesday, March 31, 2004 1:49 PM > Subject: RE: [AccessD] Fw: Returned mail: see transcript for details > > > > We recently purchased a hardware based spam blocker. (I like/hate it.) > It > > does a great job with spams, but has been having a lot of false positives. > > (Things like ... in an email get the whole thing blocked.) > > > > Drew > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Rocky Smolin - > > Beach Access Software > > Sent: Wednesday, March 31, 2004 3:10 PM > > To: AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > Subject: [AccessD] Fw: Returned mail: see transcript for details > > > > > > Drew: > > > > Here's the rejection I'm getting from your email address. On closer > > inspection, it appears to be me they're rejecting. I'm hurt. :( > > > > Rocky > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: "Rocky Smolin - Beach Access Software" > > To: > > Sent: Wednesday, March 31, 2004 1:08 PM > > Subject: Fw: Returned mail: see transcript for details > > > > > > > Drew: > > > > > > Here's the rejection. > > > > > > Rocky > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > From: "Mail Delivery Subsystem" > > > > > To: > > > Sent: Wednesday, March 31, 2004 9:39 AM > > > Subject: Returned mail: see transcript for details > > > > > > > > > > The original message was received at Wed, 31 Mar 2004 09:38:56 -0800 > > (PST) > > > > from 24-25-217-158.san.rr.com [24.25.217.158] > > > > > > > > ----- The following addresses had permanent fatal errors ----- > > > > > > > > (reason: 554 : Sender address rejected: Access > > > denied) > > > > > > > > ----- Transcript of session follows ----- > > > > ... while talking to main2.marlow.com.: > > > > >>> DATA > > > > <<< 554 : Sender address rejected: Access denied > > > > 554 5.0.0 Service unavailable > > > > <<< 554 Error: no valid recipients > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -------------------------------------------------------------------------- > > -- > > > ---- > > > > > > > > > > Received: from HAL9002 (24-25-217-158.san.rr.com [24.25.217.158]) > > > > by ms-smtp-03-eri0.socal.rr.com (8.12.10/8.12.7) with SMTP id > > > i2VHcuUL013549 > > > > for ; Wed, 31 Mar 2004 09:38:56 -0800 (PST) > > > > Message-ID: <07f401c41747$10170f00$6601a8c0 at HAL9002> > > > > From: "Rocky Smolin - Beach Access Software" > > > > To: > > > > Subject: Fw: Returned mail: see transcript for details > > > > Date: Wed, 31 Mar 2004 09:39:04 -0800 > > > > MIME-Version: 1.0 > > > > Content-Type: multipart/mixed; > > > > boundary="----=_NextPart_000_07F1_01C41704.01B5B490" > > > > X-Priority: 3 > > > > X-MSMail-Priority: Normal > > > > X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158 > > > > X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 > > > > X-Virus-Scanned: Symantec AntiVirus Scan Engine > > > > > > > > > > > -- > > _______________________________________________ > > AccessD mailing list > > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > -- > > _______________________________________________ > > AccessD mailing list > > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From nd500_lo at charter.net Wed Mar 31 16:17:13 2004 From: nd500_lo at charter.net (Dian) Date: Wed, 31 Mar 2004 14:17:13 -0800 Subject: [AccessD] OT: A survey from somebody not as well-connected as JC In-Reply-To: <20040331135520.JBJU1797.imf22aec.mail.bellsouth.net@SUSANONE> Message-ID: <200403312217.i2VMHCvD098668@mxsf13.cluster1.charter.net> Well, I've been 'lurking' for a while because I'm technically retired now and haven't been an 'official' developer for several years. The reason I'm responding now is that Susan made a good point. I made an excellent living doing something close to what she has suggested here...focusing on what small business owners seemed to need the most. It all started when I did a favor for a little bookstore and the owner was so delighted, she recommended me to others. All I did was go into a business, analyze their business functions, eliminate redundant operations, tie the system together (and, yes, for some weird reason, there was usually an Access database at the heart of it all) and then train the employees on how they could do their specific function faster, easier and more efficiently. When several customers needed new systems, I learned how to build computers. When their networking needs became more sophisticated, I learned what I needed to know about networking. When everyone wanted an online presence, I learned how to create websites for them and taught them how to maintain them. In the process, I built little modules that could be snapped together to cover just about anything (on a limited size basis) and I had a wonderful time. It is possible to do it...just a matter of discovering what I was good at and what I loved doing. It can be done. By the way...hi, everybody! -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Susan Harkins Sent: Wednesday, March 31, 2004 5:55 AM To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' Subject: RE: [AccessD] OT: A survey from somebody not as well-connected as JC I have long thought that the way to make money with Access/SQL Server or really any program that you can manipulate vai code is to make small modules that make the user's life easier, not a finished package per se. Now Rocky may have the once in a lifetime great idea that has a large audience, but most of us aren't going to experience that. What we can do, is produce drop-in modules that make the average user's life easier. Wizards are OK, but most of them really won't take the user very far toward getting the word done. You sell a module that does something you think is really rather mundane, but that the average user doesn't hve the experience to automate. The cost is so small anyone can purchase it, and you make money in volume. Will you get rich? Probably not, but I still think there's potential there. Something as simple as a generic module that lets the user determine how many labels to print for each record, and specify a position to start on the first label sheet so they can use a half-used sheet of labels. Both are something I've written about -- could easily be automated to fit be dropped into any module and users would buy it if you only charge $5 or $10. There are tons of ideas for such a market -- but can't tell you where or how to market them. Here's a few more -- a combo or list that automatically displays all the visible reports or forms in the application (omitting hidden and system objects I mean). These are things users could really use and would probably pay a few bucks for. Everyone's busy with custom development, and there's money to be made I'm sure, but there are ton more "users" than developers, but all the products are for developers. Susan H. Sure. I estimate it will take to the end of the year before I see any real results. I've got another product cooking as well - analyzes sleep disorders. Been working on it with an expert in the field for 4-5 years (not continuously, of course). Might be able to launch it this year. Do you want to be a beta tester? Rocky ----- Original Message ----- From: "Kath Pelletti" To: "Access Developers discussion and problem solving" Sent: Tuesday, March 30, 2004 8:23 PM Subject: Re: [AccessD] OT: A survey from somebody not as well-connected as JC Well I wish you the very best of luck...can you let us know how the sales go? Kath ----- Original Message ----- From: Rocky Smolin - Beach Access Software To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Sent: Wednesday, March 31, 2004 9:42 AM Subject: Re: [AccessD] OT: A survey from somebody not as well-connected as JC Kath: In the 'old' days when I was flogging this package in DOS, I thought that some of them would be sold by word of mouth, people seeing it, or the reports that got passed around (which all had my company name in the footer). So I always wanted everyone to have the latest version. So I didn't charge for it. It was in my self-interest to have them use the most recent release. And I'm still going to keep to that policy for this new version. If I add a module, like Order Entry, everybody will get it at no cost. With distribution by web, there really is no overhead cost to me to distribute it. And good product sells more product. I promote the product support as a 'free phone in consulting service on any question related to the software OR manufacturing systems' for the first year, and $300 a year after that (about 10% of the purchase price). In the past I had a lot of conversations with people about manufacturing issues - how to structure a bill of materials, how to make up a part numbering scheme, how to solve a particular work order problem, etc - and very few questions about how to actually run the software. This added a LOT of value to the product and didn't really take very much time. The key is to make a product which is so user stupid that anybody who can read and count to 20 can run it. Then you don't get the same question 20 times a day, like 'how do I run a costed inventory report?'. If a user doesn't want to pay the yearly maintenance then they don't get the phone support. I could tell them they don't get the new releases as well but that works against me salewise. Many people didn't pay for the support after the first couple of years because they never called me for anything. The other key, of course, it goes without saying, is to make the product so solid that it doesn't generate bugs and errors. Then you don't get any support calls. BTW - I'm not a marketer or salesy type person, either. But if you have something you believe in it's not really selling. And I really believe in this product (why not, I invented it?). I just present the product and if they like it fine. They buy it. If not, it's like pushing on a string. I always wanted people to feel like they got more than they expected and when you sell hard you overhype, raise expectations, and end up with customers who expect more than you have to give. When people buy E-Z-MRP they feel like they just bought a dollar for fifty cents. That makes selling a lot easier, too. I suppose that's why I'm successful but not rich. :) HTH Rocky Smolin Beach Access Software http://www.e-z-mrp.com ----- Original Message ----- From: "Kath Pelletti" To: "Access Developers discussion and problem solving" Sent: Tuesday, March 30, 2004 2:59 PM Subject: Re: [AccessD] OT: A survey from somebody not as well-connected as JC Rocky - out of interest - what support arrangements / fees are you offering? Kath ----- Original Message ----- From: Rocky Smolin - Beach Access Software To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Sent: Wednesday, March 31, 2004 8:48 AM Subject: Re: [AccessD] OT: A survey from somebody not as well-connected as JC Andy: Don't envy me. They jury's still out. I've got a bit of a buffer so we won't miss any meals, but that can't go on forever. I've had two good products and several bad ones. At least this time I'm starting in an economy that's on the upswing. But I've always been a bootstrap kind of guy - we're doing a mailing in San Diego county this month. Hopefully snag two or three systems. Then use that money to mail again in another county. Build it up slowly. Instead of mortgaging the house. I'm still doing some fee-for-service as well. So that keeps some of the lights on. It's a high wire act for sure. But when it does work, it's a thing of beauty. Rocky > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Andy Lacey > Sent: Tuesday, March 30, 2004 1:18 PM > To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' > Subject: RE: [AccessD] OT: A survey from somebody not as well-connected > as JC > > > I envy Rocky (sort of) but won't be trying to emulate him. Been there, tried > that, and failed. Problem with the product thing is that you have to > metamorphose from developer into marketer, and I couldn't. Not my thing at > all. Plus IME it involves sinking money into advertising, mailing, > brochures, websites nd so on. You have to be prepared to risk big outlay > against no guarantee of return. Done that 2 or 3 times to great cost and no > great return. Won't be doing it again. > > -- Andy Lacey > http://www.minstersystems.co.uk > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of > > Steven W. Erbach > > Sent: 30 March 2004 04:16 > > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > > Subject: Re: [AccessD] OT: A survey from somebody not as > > well-connected as JC > > > > > > William, > > > > >> ...don't take this the wrong way << > > > > I won't. I appreciate your point of view. I have gotten > > caught up in the tools as if owning the right brand of socket > > wrench will guarantee me a living. > > > > But I hear you on the client-centered approach. I've worked > > on lots of things that were outside of my skill-set comfort zone. > > > > I talked with a friend recently about my business and he > > asked if there was anything I specialized in. I told him no; > > my business is producing custom solutions to solve customer > > problems. He recommended a product-centered approach, like > > what Rocky is aiming for. I have a long-term care facility > > marketing and donations program I wrote that might fill the > > bill. We'll see. > > > > >> ...but I'm just me and don't have any intention of ever > > working hard > > >> again << > > > > Not really an option for me as we're having some tough times > > financially. I can dig the varietal nature of your work, > > though. Thanks. > > > > Regards, > > > > Steve Erbach > > Scientific Marketing > > Neenah, WI > > > > "You must be an intellectual. No normal person would say a > > thing like that." - George Orwell > > > > -- > > _______________________________________________ > > AccessD mailing list > > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/a> ccessd > > Website: > > http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > > > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From stuart at lexacorp.com.pg Wed Mar 31 17:04:32 2004 From: stuart at lexacorp.com.pg (Stuart McLachlan) Date: Thu, 01 Apr 2004 09:04:32 +1000 Subject: [AccessD] Fw: Returned mail: see transcript for details In-Reply-To: <2F8793082E00D4119A1700B0D0216BF802227A4C@main2.marlow.com> Message-ID: <406BDB20.24796.4FB5C3@localhost> On 31 Mar 2004 at 16:22, DWUTKA at marlow.com wrote: > Yep, Mark is handling our Spam now (my co-worker). He said that the rr.com > domain sends us a LOT of spam, so it's blacklisted. Someone needs to kick you cow-orker up the backside. A mail admin's primary job should be to ensure that users get their legitimate mail. His secondary job should be to protect them from spam/viruses as much as possible. Blocking a domain the size of rr.com shows that he has his priorities "arse about face". How much business (current and potential) is he costing you? Did you get my request for a quotation on a major system I need developed? I sent it through my US associate who uses rr.com. -- Lexacorp Ltd http://www.lexacorp.com.pg Information Technology Consultancy, Software Development,System Support. From MPorter at acsalaska.com Wed Mar 31 17:12:00 2004 From: MPorter at acsalaska.com (Porter, Mark) Date: Wed, 31 Mar 2004 14:12:00 -0900 Subject: [AccessD] OT: A survey from somebody not as well-connected as JC Message-ID: I agree with this theme. When businesses know and trust you, they are willing to hire you for things that are outside of your core skills. > -----Original Message----- > From: Dian [mailto:nd500_lo at charter.net] > Sent: Wednesday, March 31, 2004 1:17 PM > To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' > Subject: RE: [AccessD] OT: A survey from somebody not as > well-connected > as JC > > > Well, I've been 'lurking' for a while because I'm technically > retired now > and haven't been an 'official' developer for several years. > The reason I'm > responding now is that Susan made a good point. I made an > excellent living > doing something close to what she has suggested > here...focusing on what > small business owners seemed to need the most. It all started > when I did a > favor for a little bookstore and the owner was so delighted, > she recommended > me to others. All I did was go into a business, analyze their business > functions, eliminate redundant operations, tie the system > together (and, > yes, for some weird reason, there was usually an Access > database at the > heart of it all) and then train the employees on how they > could do their > specific function faster, easier and more efficiently. When several > customers needed new systems, I learned how to build > computers. When their > networking needs became more sophisticated, I learned what I > needed to know > about networking. When everyone wanted an online presence, I > learned how to > create websites for them and taught them how to maintain them. In the > process, I built little modules that could be snapped > together to cover just > about anything (on a limited size basis) and I had a > wonderful time. It is > possible to do it...just a matter of discovering what I was > good at and what > I loved doing. It can be done. By the way...hi, everybody! > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of > Susan Harkins > Sent: Wednesday, March 31, 2004 5:55 AM > To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' > Subject: RE: [AccessD] OT: A survey from somebody not as > well-connected as > JC > > I have long thought that the way to make money with > Access/SQL Server or > really any program that you can manipulate vai code is to > make small modules > that make the user's life easier, not a finished package per > se. Now Rocky > may have the once in a lifetime great idea that has a large > audience, but > most of us aren't going to experience that. What we can do, is produce > drop-in modules that make the average user's life easier. > Wizards are OK, > but most of them really won't take the user very far toward > getting the word > done. > > You sell a module that does something you think is really > rather mundane, > but that the average user doesn't hve the experience to > automate. The cost > is so small anyone can purchase it, and you make money in volume. > > Will you get rich? > > Probably not, but I still think there's potential there. > > Something as simple as a generic module that lets the user > determine how > many labels to print for each record, and specify a position > to start on the > first label sheet so they can use a half-used sheet of > labels. Both are > something I've written about -- could easily be automated to > fit be dropped > into any module and users would buy it if you only charge $5 > or $10. There > are tons of ideas for such a market -- but can't tell you > where or how to > market them. Here's a few more -- a combo or list that automatically > displays all the visible reports or forms in the application (omitting > hidden and system objects I mean). These are things users > could really use > and would probably pay a few bucks for. > > Everyone's busy with custom development, and there's money to > be made I'm > sure, but there are ton more "users" than developers, but all > the products > are for developers. > > Susan H. > > > Sure. I estimate it will take to the end of the year before > I see any real > results. > > I've got another product cooking as well - analyzes sleep > disorders. Been > working on it with an expert in the field for 4-5 years (not > continuously, > of course). Might be able to launch it this year. > > Do you want to be a beta tester? > > Rocky > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Kath Pelletti" > To: "Access Developers discussion and problem solving" > > Sent: Tuesday, March 30, 2004 8:23 PM > Subject: Re: [AccessD] OT: A survey from somebody not as > well-connected as > JC > > > Well I wish you the very best of luck...can you let us know > how the sales > go? > > Kath > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Rocky Smolin - Beach Access Software > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Sent: Wednesday, March 31, 2004 9:42 AM > Subject: Re: [AccessD] OT: A survey from somebody not as > well-connected as > JC > > > Kath: > > In the 'old' days when I was flogging this package in DOS, > I thought that > some of them would be sold by word of mouth, people seeing > it, or the > reports that got passed around (which all had my company name in the > footer). So I always wanted everyone to have the latest > version. So I > didn't charge for it. It was in my self-interest to have > them use the > most > recent release. And I'm still going to keep to that policy > for this new > version. > > If I add a module, like Order Entry, everybody will get it > at no cost. > With > distribution by web, there really is no overhead cost to me > to distribute > it. And good product sells more product. > > I promote the product support as a 'free phone in > consulting service on > any > question related to the software OR manufacturing systems' > for the first > year, and $300 a year after that (about 10% of the purchase price). > > In the past I had a lot of conversations with people about > manufacturing > issues - how to structure a bill of materials, how to make up a part > numbering scheme, how to solve a particular work order > problem, etc - and > very few questions about how to actually run the software. > This added a > LOT > of value to the product and didn't really take very much time. > > The key is to make a product which is so user stupid that > anybody who can > read and count to 20 can run it. Then you don't get the > same question 20 > times a day, like 'how do I run a costed inventory report?'. > > If a user doesn't want to pay the yearly maintenance then > they don't get > the > phone support. I could tell them they don't get the new > releases as well > but that works against me salewise. Many people didn't pay for the > support > after the first couple of years because they never called > me for anything. > > The other key, of course, it goes without saying, is to > make the product > so > solid that it doesn't generate bugs and errors. Then you > don't get any > support calls. > > BTW - I'm not a marketer or salesy type person, either. > But if you have > something you believe in it's not really selling. And I > really believe in > this product (why not, I invented it?). I just present the > product and if > they like it fine. They buy it. If not, it's like pushing > on a string. > > I always wanted people to feel like they got more than they > expected and > when you sell hard you overhype, raise expectations, and end up with > customers who expect more than you have to give. > > When people buy E-Z-MRP they feel like they just bought a > dollar for fifty > cents. That makes selling a lot easier, too. > > I suppose that's why I'm successful but not rich. :) > > HTH > > Rocky Smolin > Beach Access Software > http://www.e-z-mrp.com > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Kath Pelletti" > To: "Access Developers discussion and problem solving" > > Sent: Tuesday, March 30, 2004 2:59 PM > Subject: Re: [AccessD] OT: A survey from somebody not as > well-connected as > JC > > > Rocky - out of interest - what support arrangements / fees are you > offering? > > Kath > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Rocky Smolin - Beach Access Software > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Sent: Wednesday, March 31, 2004 8:48 AM > Subject: Re: [AccessD] OT: A survey from somebody not as > well-connected > as > JC > > > Andy: > > Don't envy me. They jury's still out. I've got a bit of > a buffer so we > won't miss any meals, but that can't go on forever. I've > had two good > products and several bad ones. At least this time I'm > starting in an > economy that's on the upswing. > > But I've always been a bootstrap kind of guy - we're > doing a mailing in > San > Diego county this month. Hopefully snag two or three > systems. Then use > that money to mail again in another county. Build it up slowly. > Instead > of > mortgaging the house. > > I'm still doing some fee-for-service as well. So that > keeps some of the > lights on. > > It's a high wire act for sure. But when it does work, > it's a thing of > beauty. > > Rocky > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf > Of Andy Lacey > > Sent: Tuesday, March 30, 2004 1:18 PM > > To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' > > Subject: RE: [AccessD] OT: A survey from somebody not as > well-connected > > as JC > > > > > > I envy Rocky (sort of) but won't be trying to emulate > him. Been there, > tried > > that, and failed. Problem with the product thing is > that you have to > > metamorphose from developer into marketer, and I > couldn't. Not my > thing > at > > all. Plus IME it involves sinking money into > advertising, mailing, > > brochures, websites nd so on. You have to be prepared > to risk big > outlay > > against no guarantee of return. Done that 2 or 3 times > to great cost > and > no > > great return. Won't be doing it again. > > > > -- Andy Lacey > > http://www.minstersystems.co.uk > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > > > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of > > > Steven W. Erbach > > > Sent: 30 March 2004 04:16 > > > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > > > Subject: Re: [AccessD] OT: A survey from somebody not as > > > well-connected as JC > > > > > > > > > William, > > > > > > >> ...don't take this the wrong way << > > > > > > I won't. I appreciate your point of view. I have gotten > > > caught up in the tools as if owning the right brand of socket > > > wrench will guarantee me a living. > > > > > > But I hear you on the client-centered approach. I've worked > > > on lots of things that were outside of my skill-set > comfort zone. > > > > > > I talked with a friend recently about my business and he > > > asked if there was anything I specialized in. I told him no; > > > my business is producing custom solutions to solve customer > > > problems. He recommended a product-centered approach, like > > > what Rocky is aiming for. I have a long-term care facility > > > marketing and donations program I wrote that might fill the > > > bill. We'll see. > > > > > > >> ...but I'm just me and don't have any intention of ever > > > working hard > > > >> again << > > > > > > Not really an option for me as we're having some tough times > > > financially. I can dig the varietal nature of your work, > > > though. Thanks. > > > > > > Regards, > > > > > > Steve Erbach > > > Scientific Marketing > > > Neenah, WI > > > > > > "You must be an intellectual. No normal person would say a > > > thing like that." - George Orwell > > > > > > -- > > > _______________________________________________ > > > AccessD mailing list > > > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/a> ccessd > > > Website: > > > http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > > > > > > > -- > > _______________________________________________ > > AccessD mailing list > > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > > > -- > > _______________________________________________ > > AccessD mailing list > > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > From DWUTKA at marlow.com Wed Mar 31 17:22:35 2004 From: DWUTKA at marlow.com (DWUTKA at marlow.com) Date: Wed, 31 Mar 2004 17:22:35 -0600 Subject: [AccessD] Fw: Returned mail: see transcript for details Message-ID: <2F8793082E00D4119A1700B0D0216BF802227A4F@main2.marlow.com> Slow down. Mark is EXTREMELY competent, and I AM the Exchange Administrator. We just recently purchased something called the 'Interceptor', which is a stand-alone bisen (sp?) spam filter. It's pretty good. But it's only been online a few weeks, so we are just working out the kinks. Our boss on the other hand has done several things which is making Marks life more difficult. The reason Mark has control of the interceptor, is because he's the network admin, and thus handles all of our switches, hubs, etc. Since the Interceptor sits (figuratively) between our router, and Exchange server, he took it on, since he had to work out all of the network issues with it. He doesn't really do much with it, spends maybe 10 to 15 minutes a week, it's pretty self sufficient. Tonight I'll get a 'spam report' from the Interceptor, which will have all of the emails it blocked (with links to retrieve them). I did see that big development contract you sent, and you still owe me my 'investigation' fee for that contract. LOL Drew -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of Stuart McLachlan Sent: Wednesday, March 31, 2004 5:05 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] Fw: Returned mail: see transcript for details On 31 Mar 2004 at 16:22, DWUTKA at marlow.com wrote: > Yep, Mark is handling our Spam now (my co-worker). He said that the rr.com > domain sends us a LOT of spam, so it's blacklisted. Someone needs to kick you cow-orker up the backside. A mail admin's primary job should be to ensure that users get their legitimate mail. His secondary job should be to protect them from spam/viruses as much as possible. Blocking a domain the size of rr.com shows that he has his priorities "arse about face". How much business (current and potential) is he costing you? Did you get my request for a quotation on a major system I need developed? I sent it through my US associate who uses rr.com. -- Lexacorp Ltd http://www.lexacorp.com.pg Information Technology Consultancy, Software Development,System Support. -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From garykjos at hotmail.com Wed Mar 31 17:24:29 2004 From: garykjos at hotmail.com (Gary Kjos) Date: Wed, 31 Mar 2004 17:24:29 -0600 Subject: [AccessD] OT: A survey from somebody not as well-connected as JC Message-ID: >>>Well, I've been 'lurking' for a while because I'm technically retired >>>now...... By the way...hi, everybody!<<<<<< Hello and welcome out from your lurking position ;-) Gary Kjos garykjos at hotmail.com _________________________________________________________________ Get reliable access on MSN 9 Dial-up. 3 months for the price of 1! (Limited-time offer) http://join.msn.com/?page=dept/dialup&pgmarket=en-us&ST=1/go/onm00200361ave/direct/01/ From nd500_lo at charter.net Wed Mar 31 17:20:22 2004 From: nd500_lo at charter.net (Dian) Date: Wed, 31 Mar 2004 15:20:22 -0800 Subject: [AccessD] OT: A survey from somebody not as well-connected as JC In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <200403312320.i2VNKLOt056387@mxsf10.cluster1.charter.net> Ummmmm...in all honesty, Mark...they didn't exactly KNOW it was outside my area of expertise at the time...but, I spent a LOT of time on my own learning stuff in a biiiiiig hurry... -----Original Message----- From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of Porter, Mark Sent: Wednesday, March 31, 2004 3:12 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] OT: A survey from somebody not as well-connected as JC I agree with this theme. When businesses know and trust you, they are willing to hire you for things that are outside of your core skills. > -----Original Message----- > From: Dian [mailto:nd500_lo at charter.net] > Sent: Wednesday, March 31, 2004 1:17 PM > To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' > Subject: RE: [AccessD] OT: A survey from somebody not as > well-connected > as JC > > > Well, I've been 'lurking' for a while because I'm technically > retired now > and haven't been an 'official' developer for several years. > The reason I'm > responding now is that Susan made a good point. I made an > excellent living > doing something close to what she has suggested > here...focusing on what > small business owners seemed to need the most. It all started > when I did a > favor for a little bookstore and the owner was so delighted, > she recommended > me to others. All I did was go into a business, analyze their business > functions, eliminate redundant operations, tie the system > together (and, > yes, for some weird reason, there was usually an Access > database at the > heart of it all) and then train the employees on how they > could do their > specific function faster, easier and more efficiently. When several > customers needed new systems, I learned how to build > computers. When their > networking needs became more sophisticated, I learned what I > needed to know > about networking. When everyone wanted an online presence, I > learned how to > create websites for them and taught them how to maintain them. In the > process, I built little modules that could be snapped > together to cover just > about anything (on a limited size basis) and I had a > wonderful time. It is > possible to do it...just a matter of discovering what I was > good at and what > I loved doing. It can be done. By the way...hi, everybody! > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of > Susan Harkins > Sent: Wednesday, March 31, 2004 5:55 AM > To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' > Subject: RE: [AccessD] OT: A survey from somebody not as > well-connected as > JC > > I have long thought that the way to make money with > Access/SQL Server or > really any program that you can manipulate vai code is to > make small modules > that make the user's life easier, not a finished package per > se. Now Rocky > may have the once in a lifetime great idea that has a large > audience, but > most of us aren't going to experience that. What we can do, is produce > drop-in modules that make the average user's life easier. > Wizards are OK, > but most of them really won't take the user very far toward > getting the word > done. > > You sell a module that does something you think is really > rather mundane, > but that the average user doesn't hve the experience to > automate. The cost > is so small anyone can purchase it, and you make money in volume. > > Will you get rich? > > Probably not, but I still think there's potential there. > > Something as simple as a generic module that lets the user > determine how > many labels to print for each record, and specify a position > to start on the > first label sheet so they can use a half-used sheet of > labels. Both are > something I've written about -- could easily be automated to > fit be dropped > into any module and users would buy it if you only charge $5 > or $10. There > are tons of ideas for such a market -- but can't tell you > where or how to > market them. Here's a few more -- a combo or list that automatically > displays all the visible reports or forms in the application (omitting > hidden and system objects I mean). These are things users > could really use > and would probably pay a few bucks for. > > Everyone's busy with custom development, and there's money to > be made I'm > sure, but there are ton more "users" than developers, but all > the products > are for developers. > > Susan H. > > > Sure. I estimate it will take to the end of the year before > I see any real > results. > > I've got another product cooking as well - analyzes sleep > disorders. Been > working on it with an expert in the field for 4-5 years (not > continuously, > of course). Might be able to launch it this year. > > Do you want to be a beta tester? > > Rocky > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Kath Pelletti" > To: "Access Developers discussion and problem solving" > > Sent: Tuesday, March 30, 2004 8:23 PM > Subject: Re: [AccessD] OT: A survey from somebody not as > well-connected as > JC > > > Well I wish you the very best of luck...can you let us know > how the sales > go? > > Kath > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Rocky Smolin - Beach Access Software > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Sent: Wednesday, March 31, 2004 9:42 AM > Subject: Re: [AccessD] OT: A survey from somebody not as > well-connected as > JC > > > Kath: > > In the 'old' days when I was flogging this package in DOS, > I thought that > some of them would be sold by word of mouth, people seeing > it, or the > reports that got passed around (which all had my company name in the > footer). So I always wanted everyone to have the latest > version. So I > didn't charge for it. It was in my self-interest to have > them use the > most > recent release. And I'm still going to keep to that policy > for this new > version. > > If I add a module, like Order Entry, everybody will get it > at no cost. > With > distribution by web, there really is no overhead cost to me > to distribute > it. And good product sells more product. > > I promote the product support as a 'free phone in > consulting service on > any > question related to the software OR manufacturing systems' > for the first > year, and $300 a year after that (about 10% of the purchase price). > > In the past I had a lot of conversations with people about > manufacturing > issues - how to structure a bill of materials, how to make up a part > numbering scheme, how to solve a particular work order > problem, etc - and > very few questions about how to actually run the software. > This added a > LOT > of value to the product and didn't really take very much time. > > The key is to make a product which is so user stupid that > anybody who can > read and count to 20 can run it. Then you don't get the > same question 20 > times a day, like 'how do I run a costed inventory report?'. > > If a user doesn't want to pay the yearly maintenance then > they don't get > the > phone support. I could tell them they don't get the new > releases as well > but that works against me salewise. Many people didn't pay for the > support > after the first couple of years because they never called > me for anything. > > The other key, of course, it goes without saying, is to > make the product > so > solid that it doesn't generate bugs and errors. Then you > don't get any > support calls. > > BTW - I'm not a marketer or salesy type person, either. > But if you have > something you believe in it's not really selling. And I > really believe in > this product (why not, I invented it?). I just present the > product and if > they like it fine. They buy it. If not, it's like pushing > on a string. > > I always wanted people to feel like they got more than they > expected and > when you sell hard you overhype, raise expectations, and end up with > customers who expect more than you have to give. > > When people buy E-Z-MRP they feel like they just bought a > dollar for fifty > cents. That makes selling a lot easier, too. > > I suppose that's why I'm successful but not rich. :) > > HTH > > Rocky Smolin > Beach Access Software > http://www.e-z-mrp.com > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Kath Pelletti" > To: "Access Developers discussion and problem solving" > > Sent: Tuesday, March 30, 2004 2:59 PM > Subject: Re: [AccessD] OT: A survey from somebody not as > well-connected as > JC > > > Rocky - out of interest - what support arrangements / fees are you > offering? > > Kath > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Rocky Smolin - Beach Access Software > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Sent: Wednesday, March 31, 2004 8:48 AM > Subject: Re: [AccessD] OT: A survey from somebody not as > well-connected > as > JC > > > Andy: > > Don't envy me. They jury's still out. I've got a bit of > a buffer so we > won't miss any meals, but that can't go on forever. I've > had two good > products and several bad ones. At least this time I'm > starting in an > economy that's on the upswing. > > But I've always been a bootstrap kind of guy - we're > doing a mailing in > San > Diego county this month. Hopefully snag two or three > systems. Then use > that money to mail again in another county. Build it up slowly. > Instead > of > mortgaging the house. > > I'm still doing some fee-for-service as well. So that > keeps some of the > lights on. > > It's a high wire act for sure. But when it does work, > it's a thing of > beauty. > > Rocky > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf > Of Andy Lacey > > Sent: Tuesday, March 30, 2004 1:18 PM > > To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' > > Subject: RE: [AccessD] OT: A survey from somebody not as > well-connected > > as JC > > > > > > I envy Rocky (sort of) but won't be trying to emulate > him. Been there, > tried > > that, and failed. Problem with the product thing is > that you have to > > metamorphose from developer into marketer, and I > couldn't. Not my > thing > at > > all. Plus IME it involves sinking money into > advertising, mailing, > > brochures, websites nd so on. You have to be prepared > to risk big > outlay > > against no guarantee of return. Done that 2 or 3 times > to great cost > and > no > > great return. Won't be doing it again. > > > > -- Andy Lacey > > http://www.minstersystems.co.uk > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > > > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of > > > Steven W. Erbach > > > Sent: 30 March 2004 04:16 > > > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > > > Subject: Re: [AccessD] OT: A survey from somebody not as > > > well-connected as JC > > > > > > > > > William, > > > > > > >> ...don't take this the wrong way << > > > > > > I won't. I appreciate your point of view. I have gotten > > > caught up in the tools as if owning the right brand of socket > > > wrench will guarantee me a living. > > > > > > But I hear you on the client-centered approach. I've worked > > > on lots of things that were outside of my skill-set > comfort zone. > > > > > > I talked with a friend recently about my business and he > > > asked if there was anything I specialized in. I told him no; > > > my business is producing custom solutions to solve customer > > > problems. He recommended a product-centered approach, like > > > what Rocky is aiming for. I have a long-term care facility > > > marketing and donations program I wrote that might fill the > > > bill. We'll see. > > > > > > >> ...but I'm just me and don't have any intention of ever > > > working hard > > > >> again << > > > > > > Not really an option for me as we're having some tough times > > > financially. I can dig the varietal nature of your work, > > > though. Thanks. > > > > > > Regards, > > > > > > Steve Erbach > > > Scientific Marketing > > > Neenah, WI > > > > > > "You must be an intellectual. No normal person would say a > > > thing like that." - George Orwell > > > > > > -- > > > _______________________________________________ > > > AccessD mailing list > > > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/a> ccessd > > > Website: > > > http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > > > > > > > -- > > _______________________________________________ > > AccessD mailing list > > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > > > -- > > _______________________________________________ > > AccessD mailing list > > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > -- _______________________________________________ AccessD mailing list AccessD at databaseadvisors.com http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com From BBarabash at TappeConstruction.com Wed Mar 31 17:30:42 2004 From: BBarabash at TappeConstruction.com (Brett Barabash) Date: Wed, 31 Mar 2004 17:30:42 -0600 Subject: [AccessD] Fw: Returned mail: see transcript for details Message-ID: <426071E0B0A6D311B3C0006008B0AB23AFE4B0@TAPPEEXCH01> Hey, don't get me started on spam filtering. It took 6 months for me to convince the notwork admin to configure our spam blocker to whitelist databaseadvisors.com! Nigerian money laundering schemes, otoh, are perfectly acceptable. (BTW, dig my cool legalese email tag. With recent changes to our HIPAA policies, it's getting bigger still...) -----Original Message----- From: Stuart McLachlan [mailto:stuart at lexacorp.com.pg] Sent: Wednesday, March 31, 2004 5:05 PM To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving Subject: RE: [AccessD] Fw: Returned mail: see transcript for details On 31 Mar 2004 at 16:22, DWUTKA at marlow.com wrote: > Yep, Mark is handling our Spam now (my co-worker). He said that the rr.com > domain sends us a LOT of spam, so it's blacklisted. Someone needs to kick you cow-orker up the backside. A mail admin's primary job should be to ensure that users get their legitimate mail. His secondary job should be to protect them from spam/viruses as much as possible. Blocking a domain the size of rr.com shows that he has his priorities "arse about face". How much business (current and potential) is he costing you? Did you get my request for a quotation on a major system I need developed? I sent it through my US associate who uses rr.com. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- The information in this email may contain confidential information that is legally privileged. The information is only for the use of the intended recipient(s) named above. If you are not the intended recipient(s), you are hereby notified that any disclosure, copying, distribution, or the taking of any action in regard to the content of this fax is strictly prohibited. If transmission is incorrect, unclear, or incomplete, please notify the sender immediately. The authorized recipient(s) of this information is/are prohibited from disclosing this information to any other party and is/are required to destroy the information after its stated need has been fulfilled. Any views expressed in this message are those of the individual sender, except where the sender specifies and with authority, states them to be the views of Tappe Construction Co. This footer also confirms that this email message has been scanned for the presence of computer viruses.Scanning of this message and addition of this footer is performed by SurfControl E-mail Filter software in conjunction with virus detection software. From MPorter at acsalaska.com Wed Mar 31 17:35:24 2004 From: MPorter at acsalaska.com (Porter, Mark) Date: Wed, 31 Mar 2004 14:35:24 -0900 Subject: [AccessD] OT: A survey from somebody not as well-connected as JC Message-ID: Winging it is good too ;) > -----Original Message----- > From: Dian [mailto:nd500_lo at charter.net] > Sent: Wednesday, March 31, 2004 2:20 PM > To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' > Subject: RE: [AccessD] OT: A survey from somebody not as > well-connected > as JC > > > Ummmmm...in all honesty, Mark...they didn't exactly KNOW it > was outside my > area of expertise at the time...but, I spent a LOT of time on my own > learning stuff in a biiiiiig hurry... > > -----Original Message----- > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of > Porter, Mark > Sent: Wednesday, March 31, 2004 3:12 PM > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > Subject: RE: [AccessD] OT: A survey from somebody not as > well-connected as > JC > > I agree with this theme. When businesses know and trust you, they are > willing to hire you for things that are outside of your core skills. > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: Dian [mailto:nd500_lo at charter.net] > > Sent: Wednesday, March 31, 2004 1:17 PM > > To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' > > Subject: RE: [AccessD] OT: A survey from somebody not as > > well-connected > > as JC > > > > > > Well, I've been 'lurking' for a while because I'm technically > > retired now > > and haven't been an 'official' developer for several years. > > The reason I'm > > responding now is that Susan made a good point. I made an > > excellent living > > doing something close to what she has suggested > > here...focusing on what > > small business owners seemed to need the most. It all started > > when I did a > > favor for a little bookstore and the owner was so delighted, > > she recommended > > me to others. All I did was go into a business, analyze > their business > > functions, eliminate redundant operations, tie the system > > together (and, > > yes, for some weird reason, there was usually an Access > > database at the > > heart of it all) and then train the employees on how they > > could do their > > specific function faster, easier and more efficiently. When several > > customers needed new systems, I learned how to build > > computers. When their > > networking needs became more sophisticated, I learned what I > > needed to know > > about networking. When everyone wanted an online presence, I > > learned how to > > create websites for them and taught them how to maintain > them. In the > > process, I built little modules that could be snapped > > together to cover just > > about anything (on a limited size basis) and I had a > > wonderful time. It is > > possible to do it...just a matter of discovering what I was > > good at and what > > I loved doing. It can be done. By the way...hi, everybody! > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of > > Susan Harkins > > Sent: Wednesday, March 31, 2004 5:55 AM > > To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' > > Subject: RE: [AccessD] OT: A survey from somebody not as > > well-connected as > > JC > > > > I have long thought that the way to make money with > > Access/SQL Server or > > really any program that you can manipulate vai code is to > > make small modules > > that make the user's life easier, not a finished package per > > se. Now Rocky > > may have the once in a lifetime great idea that has a large > > audience, but > > most of us aren't going to experience that. What we can do, > is produce > > drop-in modules that make the average user's life easier. > > Wizards are OK, > > but most of them really won't take the user very far toward > > getting the word > > done. > > > > You sell a module that does something you think is really > > rather mundane, > > but that the average user doesn't hve the experience to > > automate. The cost > > is so small anyone can purchase it, and you make money in volume. > > > > Will you get rich? > > > > Probably not, but I still think there's potential there. > > > > Something as simple as a generic module that lets the user > > determine how > > many labels to print for each record, and specify a position > > to start on the > > first label sheet so they can use a half-used sheet of > > labels. Both are > > something I've written about -- could easily be automated to > > fit be dropped > > into any module and users would buy it if you only charge $5 > > or $10. There > > are tons of ideas for such a market -- but can't tell you > > where or how to > > market them. Here's a few more -- a combo or list that automatically > > displays all the visible reports or forms in the > application (omitting > > hidden and system objects I mean). These are things users > > could really use > > and would probably pay a few bucks for. > > > > Everyone's busy with custom development, and there's money to > > be made I'm > > sure, but there are ton more "users" than developers, but all > > the products > > are for developers. > > > > Susan H. > > > > > > Sure. I estimate it will take to the end of the year before > > I see any real > > results. > > > > I've got another product cooking as well - analyzes sleep > > disorders. Been > > working on it with an expert in the field for 4-5 years (not > > continuously, > > of course). Might be able to launch it this year. > > > > Do you want to be a beta tester? > > > > Rocky > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: "Kath Pelletti" > > To: "Access Developers discussion and problem solving" > > > > Sent: Tuesday, March 30, 2004 8:23 PM > > Subject: Re: [AccessD] OT: A survey from somebody not as > > well-connected as > > JC > > > > > > Well I wish you the very best of luck...can you let us know > > how the sales > > go? > > > > Kath > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: Rocky Smolin - Beach Access Software > > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > > Sent: Wednesday, March 31, 2004 9:42 AM > > Subject: Re: [AccessD] OT: A survey from somebody not as > > well-connected as > > JC > > > > > > Kath: > > > > In the 'old' days when I was flogging this package in DOS, > > I thought that > > some of them would be sold by word of mouth, people seeing > > it, or the > > reports that got passed around (which all had my company > name in the > > footer). So I always wanted everyone to have the latest > > version. So I > > didn't charge for it. It was in my self-interest to have > > them use the > > most > > recent release. And I'm still going to keep to that policy > > for this new > > version. > > > > If I add a module, like Order Entry, everybody will get it > > at no cost. > > With > > distribution by web, there really is no overhead cost to me > > to distribute > > it. And good product sells more product. > > > > I promote the product support as a 'free phone in > > consulting service on > > any > > question related to the software OR manufacturing systems' > > for the first > > year, and $300 a year after that (about 10% of the > purchase price). > > > > In the past I had a lot of conversations with people about > > manufacturing > > issues - how to structure a bill of materials, how to > make up a part > > numbering scheme, how to solve a particular work order > > problem, etc - and > > very few questions about how to actually run the software. > > This added a > > LOT > > of value to the product and didn't really take very much time. > > > > The key is to make a product which is so user stupid that > > anybody who can > > read and count to 20 can run it. Then you don't get the > > same question 20 > > times a day, like 'how do I run a costed inventory report?'. > > > > If a user doesn't want to pay the yearly maintenance then > > they don't get > > the > > phone support. I could tell them they don't get the new > > releases as well > > but that works against me salewise. Many people didn't > pay for the > > support > > after the first couple of years because they never called > > me for anything. > > > > The other key, of course, it goes without saying, is to > > make the product > > so > > solid that it doesn't generate bugs and errors. Then you > > don't get any > > support calls. > > > > BTW - I'm not a marketer or salesy type person, either. > > But if you have > > something you believe in it's not really selling. And I > > really believe in > > this product (why not, I invented it?). I just present the > > product and if > > they like it fine. They buy it. If not, it's like pushing > > on a string. > > > > I always wanted people to feel like they got more than they > > expected and > > when you sell hard you overhype, raise expectations, and > end up with > > customers who expect more than you have to give. > > > > When people buy E-Z-MRP they feel like they just bought a > > dollar for fifty > > cents. That makes selling a lot easier, too. > > > > I suppose that's why I'm successful but not rich. :) > > > > HTH > > > > Rocky Smolin > > Beach Access Software > > http://www.e-z-mrp.com > > > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: "Kath Pelletti" > > To: "Access Developers discussion and problem solving" > > > > Sent: Tuesday, March 30, 2004 2:59 PM > > Subject: Re: [AccessD] OT: A survey from somebody not as > > well-connected as > > JC > > > > > > Rocky - out of interest - what support arrangements / fees are you > > offering? > > > > Kath > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: Rocky Smolin - Beach Access Software > > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > > Sent: Wednesday, March 31, 2004 8:48 AM > > Subject: Re: [AccessD] OT: A survey from somebody not as > > well-connected > > as > > JC > > > > > > Andy: > > > > Don't envy me. They jury's still out. I've got a bit of > > a buffer so we > > won't miss any meals, but that can't go on forever. I've > > had two good > > products and several bad ones. At least this time I'm > > starting in an > > economy that's on the upswing. > > > > But I've always been a bootstrap kind of guy - we're > > doing a mailing in > > San > > Diego county this month. Hopefully snag two or three > > systems. Then use > > that money to mail again in another county. Build it up slowly. > > Instead > > of > > mortgaging the house. > > > > I'm still doing some fee-for-service as well. So that > > keeps some of the > > lights on. > > > > It's a high wire act for sure. But when it does work, > > it's a thing of > > beauty. > > > > Rocky > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > > > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf > > Of Andy Lacey > > > Sent: Tuesday, March 30, 2004 1:18 PM > > > To: 'Access Developers discussion and problem solving' > > > Subject: RE: [AccessD] OT: A survey from somebody not as > > well-connected > > > as JC > > > > > > > > > I envy Rocky (sort of) but won't be trying to emulate > > him. Been there, > > tried > > > that, and failed. Problem with the product thing is > > that you have to > > > metamorphose from developer into marketer, and I > > couldn't. Not my > > thing > > at > > > all. Plus IME it involves sinking money into > > advertising, mailing, > > > brochures, websites nd so on. You have to be prepared > > to risk big > > outlay > > > against no guarantee of return. Done that 2 or 3 times > > to great cost > > and > > no > > > great return. Won't be doing it again. > > > > > > -- Andy Lacey > > > http://www.minstersystems.co.uk > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > > > > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com] On Behalf Of > > > > Steven W. Erbach > > > > Sent: 30 March 2004 04:16 > > > > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > > > > Subject: Re: [AccessD] OT: A survey from somebody not as > > > > well-connected as JC > > > > > > > > > > > > William, > > > > > > > > >> ...don't take this the wrong way << > > > > > > > > I won't. I appreciate your point of view. I have gotten > > > > caught up in the tools as if owning the right brand > of socket > > > > wrench will guarantee me a living. > > > > > > > > But I hear you on the client-centered approach. I've worked > > > > on lots of things that were outside of my skill-set > > comfort zone. > > > > > > > > I talked with a friend recently about my business and he > > > > asked if there was anything I specialized in. I told him no; > > > > my business is producing custom solutions to solve customer > > > > problems. He recommended a product-centered approach, like > > > > what Rocky is aiming for. I have a long-term care facility > > > > marketing and donations program I wrote that might fill the > > > > bill. We'll see. > > > > > > > > >> ...but I'm just me and don't have any intention of ever > > > > working hard > > > > >> again << > > > > > > > > Not really an option for me as we're having some tough times > > > > financially. I can dig the varietal nature of your work, > > > > though. Thanks. > > > > > > > > Regards, > > > > > > > > Steve Erbach > > > > Scientific Marketing > > > > Neenah, WI > > > > > > > > "You must be an intellectual. No normal person would say a > > > > thing like that." - George Orwell > > > > > > > > -- > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > > AccessD mailing list > > > > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/a> ccessd > > > > Website: > > > > http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -- > > > _______________________________________________ > > > AccessD mailing list > > > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > > > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > > > > > > -- > > > _______________________________________________ > > > AccessD mailing list > > > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > > > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > > > > -- > > _______________________________________________ > > AccessD mailing list > > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > -- > > _______________________________________________ > > AccessD mailing list > > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > -- > > _______________________________________________ > > AccessD mailing list > > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > -- > > _______________________________________________ > > AccessD mailing list > > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > -- > > _______________________________________________ > > AccessD mailing list > > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > -- > > _______________________________________________ > > AccessD mailing list > > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > -- > > _______________________________________________ > > AccessD mailing list > > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > From jmhla at earthlink.net Wed Mar 31 19:55:23 2004 From: jmhla at earthlink.net (Joe Hecht) Date: Wed, 31 Mar 2004 17:55:23 -0800 Subject: [AccessD] Access XP & FMS for 2000 Message-ID: <004601c4178c$68650e10$6501a8c0@delllaptop> Hi Gang, You may have noticed I have not been asking many questions lately. I have not been writing much. Well here we go. If I use the Access 2000 format of Access XP can use the FMS Developer tools without messing anything up? TIA JOE HECHT LOS ANGELES CA From deanellis at iprimus.com.au Wed Mar 31 15:42:55 2004 From: deanellis at iprimus.com.au (Dean Ellis) Date: Thu, 1 Apr 2004 07:12:55 +0930 (Cen. Australia Standard Time) Subject: [AccessD] Vertical lines in Reports Message-ID: <406B3B5F.000003.43975@jedel> Hi All, I have an interesting dilema with regards to my reports. I want to place a verticl line down each side of my report to simulate the data in some large frames. I can set the line height to match the distance between two horizontal lines. But here's the catch. Between the two horizonatl lines are a number of feilds that are set to "Can Grow". When the text is placed in here, and the feild grows too much, there is a gap between the bottom horizontal line and the vertical lines. Any suggestions? Cheers Dean From d.dick at uws.edu.au Wed Mar 31 22:00:09 2004 From: d.dick at uws.edu.au (Darren DICK) Date: Thu, 1 Apr 2004 14:00:09 +1000 Subject: [AccessD] Vertical lines in Reports References: <406B3B5F.000003.43975@jedel> Message-ID: <00b301c4179d$d3355a90$fed09a89@DDICK> Hey Deano Get the height of the detail and then get your vertical line to be that height in the on Format of the Detail section have something like dim intDetailHeight intDetailHeight = me.detail.height me.linVerticalLine.height = intDetailHeight or something like that Have funn Darren ----- Original Message ----- From: "Dean Ellis" To: "AccessD" Sent: Thursday, April 01, 2004 7:42 AM Subject: [AccessD] Vertical lines in Reports > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > From wdhindman at bellsouth.net Wed Mar 31 22:32:49 2004 From: wdhindman at bellsouth.net (William Hindman) Date: Wed, 31 Mar 2004 23:32:49 -0500 Subject: [AccessD] Slow Forms References: Message-ID: <00cc01c417a2$6394bf50$6101a8c0@dejpolsys> ...dl JC's JIT sample from www.colbyconsulting.com ...it'll get you there with bells on :) William Hindman ipsedixitism: something is true because I myself have said it is true ...the philosophy of Noam Chomsky :) ----- Original Message ----- From: "Reuben Cummings" To: "Access Developers discussion and problem solving" Sent: Wednesday, March 31, 2004 2:34 PM Subject: RE: [AccessD] Slow Forms > > > > ...have you tried not loading the tabbed data until its actually selected > > I've considered this option. > > What event is used to "see" a tab being selected? > > Reuben Cummings > GFC, LLC > phone: 812.523.1017 > email: reuben at gfconsultants.com > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com > > [mailto:accessd-bounces at databaseadvisors.com]On Behalf Of William > > Hindman > > Sent: Tuesday, March 30, 2004 9:27 PM > > To: Access Developers discussion and problem solving > > Subject: Re: [AccessD] Slow Forms > > > > > > ...have you tried not loading the tabbed data until its actually selected > > ...that should let your main form open quickly based upon the info you > > submitted. > > > > William Hindman > > ipsedixitism: something is true because I myself have said it is > > true ...the > > philosophy of Noam Chomsky :) > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: "Reuben Cummings" > > To: "AccessD" > > Sent: Tuesday, March 30, 2004 4:14 PM > > Subject: [AccessD] Slow Forms > > > > > > > I need help with a form that opens very slowly. > > > > > > Everything worked very quickly until I compacted and repaired the db. > > After > > > compacting, this form will open slowly one time and then open > > quickly all > > > other times. It will continue to open as I would expect it to > > until it is > > > compacted again. > > > > > > However, if the app is made into an mde then it always opens slowly. > > > > > > The form is based on a query. There is a tab control on it. > > One tab has > > > about 14 fields from the same recordsource as the main form. The other > > > three tabs all have subforms based on queries. 2 of those queries have > > > fields that call functions to get their value. > > > > > > All the queries and subforms open very quickly. And if I delete the > > > subforms, the main form will always operate quickly. > > > > > > I have imported into new db's. I have completely rebuilt the main form. > > > > > > Any suggestions on where to start troubleshooting this thing? > > > > > > Thanks. > > > > > > Reuben Cummings > > > GFC, LLC > > > phone: 812.523.1017 > > > email: reuben at gfconsultants.com > > > > > > > > > > > > -- > > > _______________________________________________ > > > AccessD mailing list > > > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > > > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > > > > > > -- > > _______________________________________________ > > AccessD mailing list > > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com > > > > > > -- > _______________________________________________ > AccessD mailing list > AccessD at databaseadvisors.com > http://databaseadvisors.com/mailman/listinfo/accessd > Website: http://www.databaseadvisors.com >